[INDOLOGY] sources for the idea that reincarnation is a semi-random process?

Tue Nov 17 08:48:50 UTC 2020

No, I don't.
Perhaps @Tom Yarnall <ty37 at columbia.edu>  @David Gray <dgray at scu.edu>
@Christian Wedermeyer, @Bob Thurman or others might recall

On Tue, Nov 17, 2020 at 9:26 AM Dean Michael Anderson <
eastwestcultural at yahoo.com> wrote:

> Thanks James.
>
> Do you happen to remember the title?
>
> Dean
>
>
> On Tuesday, November 17, 2020, 1:38:21 PM GMT+5:30, James Hartzell <
> james.hartzell at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> Hi Dean
>
> Great question. Back in the 1990s we read a Tibetan medical text with Bob
> Thurman at Columbia (some of my fellow students at the time might remember
> the title) and it had an interesting bit on reincarnation, with the
> incarnator feeling Freudian-like sexual attraction towards the new mother
> if being born as a male, or towards the new father if being born as a
> female, and seeing the house as a palace regardless of its actual
> appearance. If I recall correctly there was something in the text about the
> incarnator's karma playing a key role in the parental/home
> selection/perception, and there may have been something there about a
> certain randomness or uncertainty in the process that may be relevant to
> your question.
>
> Cheers
> James
>
> On Mon, Nov 16, 2020 at 9:15 PM Dean Michael Anderson via INDOLOGY <
> indology at list.indology.info> wrote:
>
> Thanks to everyone who's replied so far. None of these seem to go as far
> as the claim that I'd heard about.
>
> I'll have to try to look into the original texts that you all recommended.
>
> Best,
>
> Dean
>
> On Monday, November 16, 2020, 8:02:44 PM GMT+5:30, Rolf Heinrich Koch via
> INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info> wrote:
>
>
> Dear Dean,
> another aspect may be helpful:
>
> because I am doing some research on the concept of karman and hell, I see
> that already in the Gilgit-manuscripts (Āyuḥparyantasūtra)  a
> systematically composed description (Sanskrit-Śloka) connects specific
> actions (karman) with the rebirth in certain hells.
> When someone kills his mother his rebirth takes place in hell 1. If he is
> a robber in hell 8 etc.
> This description is adapted in several later works and found also his way,
> probably via Burmese monks, in the later Pali-literature and is still
> observed in Thailand, Sri Lanka etc.
>
> I did not translate the complete Āyuḥparyantasūtra. If you can read
> Sanskrit (there is also a Tibetan translation) you may find the answer of
> your question beyond the rebirth in a hell.
>
> Best
> Heiner
>
>
> Am 16.11.2020 um 13:50 schrieb Rupert Gethin via INDOLOGY:
>
> Dear Dean,
>
> Not sure if the following is relevant to you query.
>
> The idea that good karman doesn’t invariably immediately lead to pleasant
> rebirth and bad karman doesn’t invariably immediately lead to unpleasant
> rebirth is discussed in the Mahakammavibhaṅga-sutta (MN III 207–15, with
> parallels surviving in Chinese and Tibetan translation).
>
> Later Buddhist systematic thought in the Abhidharma traditions of both the
> Theravāda and Sarvāstivāda refers to the following categories of karman in
> the context of determining which of a being's infinite past actions might
> determine rebirth:
>
> weighty (garuka/guru)
> near to death (āsanna)
> habitual (āciṇṇa/abhyasta)
> something previously done (kaṭattākamma/pūrvakṛta)
>
> See e.g. Vism 601–602 (XIX.14–16), Abhidh-k-bh (Pradhan) 477, Abhidh-k-vy
> (Wogihara) 719.
>
> In other words, if you have done something really ‘weighty' in this life
> (killed your mother or father, etc.) you're going to experience the
> unpleasant results in your next rebirth come what may. If you haven’t done
> anything weighty (most of us?), then either something done close to the
> time of death or something done habitually will tend to come into play
> (there is some hesitation in the sources on whether to give precedence to
> near-death actions or habitual actions). Failing these two, then any past
> action from any past life may, depending on a variety of conditions, come
> into play. The sources add that only buddhas can really see and understand
> the complex of conditions that govern which karman ripens when. Thus from
> the perspective of ordinary folk it may appear random, but from the
> perspective of a buddha it is not.
>
> Best wishes,
>
> Rupert
> --
> *Rupert Gethin*
> Professor of Buddhist Studies
> University of Bristol
>
> Email: Rupert.Gethin at bristol.ac.uk <Rupert.Gethin at bristol.ac.uk>
>
> On 15 Nov 2020, at 23:53, Dean Michael Anderson via INDOLOGY <
> indology at list.indology.info> wrote:
>
> Dear fellow members of the Indology list,
>
> Most people think of reincarnation being a somewhat deterministic process
> based on past karma.
>
> I read someplace, however, that Tibetans, and maybe other Buddhists,
> consider the process of assigning one's karma for the next life as
> something akin to reaching into a box of chips and grabbing a random
> collection of karmas that set in motion the next life. Thus, it is not so
> strictly deterministic.
>
> I'm sorry if I'm not describing this accurately.
>
> Can anyone point me to some original sources or commentaries for this
> idea ?
>
> Also, is this something that is mentioned in Hinduism or other
> reincarnation-based religions?
>
> Best,
>
> Dean Anderson
>
>
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> --
> Dr. Rolf Heinrich Kochwww.rolfheinrichkoch.wordpress.com
>
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>
> --
> James Hartzell, PhD (2x)
> Donostia-San Sebatián, Spain
> Center for Mind/Brain Sciences (CIMeC), The University of Trento, Italy
> Center for Buddhist Studies, Columbia University, USA
>
>

-- 
James Hartzell, PhD (2x)
Donostia-San Sebatián, Spain
Center for Mind/Brain Sciences (CIMeC), The University of Trento, Italy
Center for Buddhist Studies, Columbia University, USA

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