From drdhaval2785 at gmail.com  Sun Mar  1 10:40:00 2020
From: drdhaval2785 at gmail.com (Dhaval Patel)
Date: Sun, 01 Mar 20 16:10:00 +0530
Subject: =?utf-8?B?W0lORE9MT0dZXSDgpLLgpL/gpJngpY3gpJfgpLXgpL/gpKfgpL/gpLXgpL/gpLbgpYfgpLcgb2Yg4KS14KSw4KSw4KWB4KSa4KS/?=
Message-ID: <CADSGPzVs+koA68MiANDa1hC9bZVydQew_TG6wcX3A5y0W7xJBg@mail.gmail.com>

Dear Scholars,
It is my pleasure to present before you digital copy of a very old lexicon
publication.
Li?gavi?e?avidhi of Vararuchi.

https://github.com/sanskrit-kosha/kosha/blob/master/lingavisheshavidhi_vararuchi/orig/lingavisheshavidhi.txt

Solicit your feedback.

-- 
Dr. Dhaval Patel, I.A.S
Collector and District Magistrate, Surat
www.sanskritworld.in


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From drdhaval2785 at gmail.com  Sun Mar  1 09:47:19 2020
From: drdhaval2785 at gmail.com (Dhaval Patel)
Date: Sun, 01 Mar 20 15:17:19 +0530
Subject: =?utf-8?B?UmU6IFtJTkRPTE9HWV0ge+CkreCkvuCksOCkpOClgOCkr+CkteCkv+CkpuCljeCkteCkpOCljeCkquCksOCkv+Ckt+CkpOCljX0gb2Yg4KS14KSw4KSw4KWB4KSa4KS/?=
In-Reply-To: <CADSGPzVs+koA68MiANDa1hC9bZVydQew_TG6wcX3A5y0W7xJBg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CADSGPzURbZ=pM4UMtC_X6jkv8xt7X7a4H_3iOnnEPDaF6ndnDg@mail.gmail.com>

Correction in title

Kindly read

??????????????

On Sun, 1 Mar 2020, 15:15 Dhaval Patel, <drdhaval2785 at gmail.com> wrote:

> Dear Scholars,
> It is my pleasure to present before you digital copy of a very old lexicon
> publication.
> Li?gavi?e?avidhi of Vararuchi.
>
>
> https://github.com/sanskrit-kosha/kosha/blob/master/lingavisheshavidhi_vararuchi/orig/lingavisheshavidhi.txt
>
> Solicit your feedback.
>
> --
> Dr. Dhaval Patel, I.A.S
> Collector and District Magistrate, Surat
> www.sanskritworld.in
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "???????????????????" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
> email to bvparishat+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com.
> To view this discussion on the web visit
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bvparishat/CADSGPzVs%2BkoA68MiANDa1hC9bZVydQew_TG6wcX3A5y0W7xJBg%40mail.gmail.com
> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bvparishat/CADSGPzVs%2BkoA68MiANDa1hC9bZVydQew_TG6wcX3A5y0W7xJBg%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>
> .
>


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From dominik.haas at univie.ac.at  Sun Mar  1 12:21:38 2020
From: dominik.haas at univie.ac.at (Dominik Haas)
Date: Sun, 01 Mar 20 13:21:38 +0100
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Repetitive recitation of a mantra
Message-ID: <ff808808-89b6-a3bf-1523-643ef9facdfe@univie.ac.at>

Dear colleagues,

in my exploration of the history of the G?yatr? mantra, I naturally have 
to deal with the practice of *repetitive recitation**of a mantra*. I 
would like to collect as much literature as possible about the origins 
and the development of this specific practice in South Asian religions 
(of course there's a lot about japa and mantras in general, and repeated 
recitation is ubiquitous, but I am looking for more focused studies). 
Serious studies about the psychological effects of repeating a single 
text would also be interesting.

Any references (and/or PDFs) would be very welcome, on or off-list!

Best regards,
Dominik A. Haas


__________________
*Dominik A. Haas, BA MA*
PhD Candidate, University of Vienna
Dissertation proposal: doi.org/10.25365/phaidra.103
dominik.haas at univie.ac.at <mailto:dominik.haas at univie.ac.at>
ORCID: 0000-0002-8505-6112 <https://orcid.org/0000-0002-8505-6112>
univie.academia.edu/DominikHaas <https://univie.academia.edu/DominikHaas>





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From mkapstei at uchicago.edu  Sun Mar  1 14:06:40 2020
From: mkapstei at uchicago.edu (Matthew Kapstein)
Date: Sun, 01 Mar 20 14:06:40 +0000
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Repetitive recitation of a mantra
In-Reply-To: <ff808808-89b6-a3bf-1523-643ef9facdfe@univie.ac.at>
Message-ID: <DM6PR11MB40590A18503E5B1DDC531E5EA1E60@DM6PR11MB4059.namprd11.prod.outlook.com>

Dear Mr. Haas,

As I recall, Robert Yelle's book Explaining Mantras includes some discussion of repetition. It is possible, too, that some of the articles in Alper's Understanding Mantras at least touch upon the topic. Others on the list may be able to offer some guidance to relevant sections in the writings of Frits Staal and others who have worked on Vedic recitation and related ritual theory.

good luck,

Matthew Kapstein
Directeur d'?tudes, ?m?rite
Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes, Paris

Numata Visiting Professor of Buddhist Studies,
The University of Chicago
________________________________
From: INDOLOGY <indology-bounces at list.indology.info> on behalf of Dominik Haas via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info>
Sent: Sunday, March 1, 2020 6:21 AM
To: indology at list.indology.info <indology at list.indology.info>
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Repetitive recitation of a mantra


Dear colleagues,

in my exploration of the history of the G?yatr? mantra, I naturally have to deal with the practice of repetitive recitation of a mantra. I would like to collect as much literature as possible about the origins and the development of this specific practice in South Asian religions (of course there's a lot about japa and mantras in general, and repeated recitation is ubiquitous, but I am looking for more focused studies). Serious studies about the psychological effects of repeating a single text would also be interesting.

Any references (and/or PDFs) would be very welcome, on or off-list!

Best regards,
Dominik A. Haas


__________________
Dominik A. Haas, BA MA
PhD Candidate, University of Vienna
Dissertation proposal: doi.org/10.25365/phaidra.103
dominik.haas at univie.ac.at<mailto:dominik.haas at univie.ac.at>
ORCID: 0000-0002-8505-6112<https://orcid.org/0000-0002-8505-6112>
univie.academia.edu/DominikHaas<https://univie.academia.edu/DominikHaas>





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From jemhouben at gmail.com  Sun Mar  1 19:30:13 2020
From: jemhouben at gmail.com (Jan E.M. Houben)
Date: Sun, 01 Mar 20 20:30:13 +0100
Subject: [INDOLOGY] pdf searches
In-Reply-To: <CAGCGLoBaHm8eE_7rgNwoL73VDc=E3zVh8zZx-89W7U3jfwJodQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAGCGLoBRjfGsqGeT=LEQUyZBeiag6qOie-q44qzTzZcOScrKzg@mail.gmail.com>

Thanks now also to those who kindly sent me offlist my remaining
desiderata.
With best regards,
Jan Houben

On Fri, 28 Feb 2020 at 22:22, Jan E.M. Houben <jemhouben at gmail.com> wrote:

> Dear All,
> I thank those who have sent me the required pdfs off-list.
> It is now only Paul Horsch's impressive and for several decades quite
> influential work of which a pdf is missing.
> Perhaps I may receive your help if you can help me complete my collection
> of issues of WZKS, since vol. 6 (1962) contains, in N Tsuji's words, "the
> same author's condensed yet lucid summary" of Vedische Gathas und Slokas.
> With best regards,
> Jan Houben
>
> On Thu, 27 Feb 2020 at 20:04, Jan E.M. Houben <jemhouben at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Dear Listmembers,
>> As I am in search of scans of the following publications, I will be
>> gratefull to anyone who can share any of them on- or off-list:
>>
>> Die vedische Ga?tha?- und S?loka-Literatur
>> Horsch, Paul
>> Bern : Francke 1966.
>>
>> Hans-Werbin K?hler
>> ?rad-dh?: in der vedischen und altbuddhistischen Literatur, 77 pages
>> (1973)
>>
>> Jan Gonda. 1959
>> Stylistic repetition in the Veda.
>> Amsterdam : Noord-Hollandsche Uitgevers Maatschappij.
>>
>> With best wishes,
>> Jan Houben
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> *Jan E.M. Houben*
>>
>> Directeur d'?tudes, Professor of South Asian History and Philology
>>
>> *Sources et histoire de la tradition sanskrite*
>>
>> ?cole Pratique des Hautes ?tudes (EPHE, Paris Sciences et Lettres)
>>
>> *Sciences historiques et philologiques *
>>
>> *johannes.houben [at] ephe.psl.eu <johannes.houben at ephe.psl.eu>*
>>
>> *https://ephe-sorbonne.academia.edu/JanEMHouben
>> <https://ephe-sorbonne.academia.edu/JanEMHouben>*
>>
>
>
> --
>
> *Jan E.M. Houben*
>
> Directeur d'?tudes, Professor of South Asian History and Philology
>
> *Sources et histoire de la tradition sanskrite*
>
> ?cole Pratique des Hautes ?tudes (EPHE, Paris Sciences et Lettres)
>
> *Sciences historiques et philologiques *
>
> *johannes.houben [at] ephe.psl.eu <johannes.houben at ephe.psl.eu>*
>
> *https://ephe-sorbonne.academia.edu/JanEMHouben
> <https://ephe-sorbonne.academia.edu/JanEMHouben>*
>


-- 

*Jan E.M. Houben*

Directeur d'?tudes, Professor of South Asian History and Philology

*Sources et histoire de la tradition sanskrite*

?cole Pratique des Hautes ?tudes (EPHE, Paris Sciences et Lettres)

*Sciences historiques et philologiques *

*johannes.houben [at] ephe.psl.eu <johannes.houben at ephe.psl.eu>*

*https://ephe-sorbonne.academia.edu/JanEMHouben
<https://ephe-sorbonne.academia.edu/JanEMHouben>*


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From mkapstei at uchicago.edu  Sun Mar  1 19:49:12 2020
From: mkapstei at uchicago.edu (Matthew Kapstein)
Date: Sun, 01 Mar 20 19:49:12 +0000
Subject: [INDOLOGY] pdf searches
In-Reply-To: <CAGCGLoBRjfGsqGeT=LEQUyZBeiag6qOie-q44qzTzZcOScrKzg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <DM6PR11MB4059B9257017F697C2452034A1E60@DM6PR11MB4059.namprd11.prod.outlook.com>

Dear Jan,

I would be most grateful if you might forward to me the Horsch and K?hler pieces.

thanks in advance,
and best regards,
Matthew

Matthew Kapstein
Directeur d'?tudes, ?m?rite
Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes, Paris

Numata Visiting Professor of Buddhist Studies,
The University of Chicago
________________________________
From: INDOLOGY <indology-bounces at list.indology.info> on behalf of Jan E.M. Houben via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info>
Sent: Sunday, March 1, 2020 1:30 PM
To: Indology <indology at list.indology.info>
Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] pdf searches

Thanks now also to those who kindly sent me offlist my remaining desiderata.
With best regards,
Jan Houben

On Fri, 28 Feb 2020 at 22:22, Jan E.M. Houben <jemhouben at gmail.com<mailto:jemhouben at gmail.com>> wrote:
Dear All,
I thank those who have sent me the required pdfs off-list.
It is now only Paul Horsch's impressive and for several decades quite influential work of which a pdf is missing.
Perhaps I may receive your help if you can help me complete my collection of issues of WZKS, since vol. 6 (1962) contains, in N Tsuji's words, "the same author's condensed yet lucid summary" of Vedische Gathas und Slokas.
With best regards,
Jan Houben

On Thu, 27 Feb 2020 at 20:04, Jan E.M. Houben <jemhouben at gmail.com<mailto:jemhouben at gmail.com>> wrote:
Dear Listmembers,
As I am in search of scans of the following publications, I will be gratefull to anyone who can share any of them on- or off-list:

Die vedische Ga?tha?- und S?loka-Literatur
Horsch, Paul
Bern : Francke 1966.

Hans-Werbin K?hler
?rad-dh?: in der vedischen und altbuddhistischen Literatur, 77 pages (1973)

Jan Gonda. 1959
Stylistic repetition in the Veda.
Amsterdam : Noord-Hollandsche Uitgevers Maatschappij.

With best wishes,
Jan Houben



--

Jan E.M. Houben

Directeur d'?tudes, Professor of South Asian History and Philology

Sources et histoire de la tradition sanskrite

?cole Pratique des Hautes ?tudes (EPHE, Paris Sciences et Lettres)

Sciences historiques et philologiques

johannes.houben [at] ephe.psl.eu<mailto:johannes.houben at ephe.psl.eu>

https://ephe-sorbonne.academia.edu/JanEMHouben


--

Jan E.M. Houben

Directeur d'?tudes, Professor of South Asian History and Philology

Sources et histoire de la tradition sanskrite

?cole Pratique des Hautes ?tudes (EPHE, Paris Sciences et Lettres)

Sciences historiques et philologiques

johannes.houben [at] ephe.psl.eu<mailto:johannes.houben at ephe.psl.eu>

https://ephe-sorbonne.academia.edu/JanEMHouben


--

Jan E.M. Houben

Directeur d'?tudes, Professor of South Asian History and Philology

Sources et histoire de la tradition sanskrite

?cole Pratique des Hautes ?tudes (EPHE, Paris Sciences et Lettres)

Sciences historiques et philologiques

johannes.houben [at] ephe.psl.eu<mailto:johannes.houben at ephe.psl.eu>

https://ephe-sorbonne.academia.edu/JanEMHouben


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From james.hartzell at gmail.com  Mon Mar  2 08:58:09 2020
From: james.hartzell at gmail.com (James Hartzell)
Date: Mon, 02 Mar 20 09:58:09 +0100
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Pali suttas in Burmese alphabet
Message-ID: <CAKA8X41aqXA4UY0c5xn6PCMZTo7vRL+w5N6SnCmEf25JKUyXEA@mail.gmail.com>

Hi

A colleague not on this list sent me the following question:

"I had a request from someone wanting to transliterate Pali suttas
written in the Burmese alphabet using the roman alphabet.

Do you know anyone who may be able to help with this transliteration
work, or who I might ask for help."

Any suggestions will be much appreciated

Cheers
James

-- 
James Hartzell, PhD (2x)
Basque Center on Cognition, Brain and Language (BCBL), Donostia, Spain
Center for Mind/Brain Sciences (CIMeC), The University of Trento, Italy
Center for Buddhist Studies, Columbia University, USA


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From nagarajpaturi at gmail.com  Mon Mar  2 10:31:59 2020
From: nagarajpaturi at gmail.com (Nagaraj Paturi)
Date: Mon, 02 Mar 20 16:01:59 +0530
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Pali suttas in Burmese alphabet
In-Reply-To: <CAKA8X41aqXA4UY0c5xn6PCMZTo7vRL+w5N6SnCmEf25JKUyXEA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAJGj9eaxxDvUTd4n_s8ZwwHw5+TbL9NdTZgeKtagD2fiovH7EQ@mail.gmail.com>

There is this unicode related multilingual support discussion here:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help:Multilingual_support_(Burmese)

There is an online tool here:

https://www.ushuaia.pl/transliterate/?ln=en

Please check if it helps.

On Mon, Mar 2, 2020 at 2:29 PM James Hartzell via INDOLOGY <
indology at list.indology.info> wrote:

> Hi
>
> A colleague not on this list sent me the following question:
>
> "I had a request from someone wanting to transliterate Pali suttas
> written in the Burmese alphabet using the roman alphabet.
>
> Do you know anyone who may be able to help with this transliteration
> work, or who I might ask for help."
>
> Any suggestions will be much appreciated
>
> Cheers
> James
>
> --
> James Hartzell, PhD (2x)
> Basque Center on Cognition, Brain and Language (BCBL), Donostia, Spain
> Center for Mind/Brain Sciences (CIMeC), The University of Trento, Italy
> Center for Buddhist Studies, Columbia University, USA
>
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
> committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
> unsubscribe)
>


-- 
Nagaraj Paturi

Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.


Director,  Inter-Gurukula-University Centre , Indic Academy
BoS, MIT School of Vedic Sciences, Pune, Maharashtra
BoS, Chinmaya Vishwavidyapeeth, Veliyanad, Kerala
BoS Veda Vijnana Gurukula, Bengaluru.
Member, Advisory Council, Veda Vijnana Shodha Samsthanam, Bengaluru
Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies,
FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of  Liberal Education,
Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.


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From mark.allon at sydney.edu.au  Mon Mar  2 13:16:49 2020
From: mark.allon at sydney.edu.au (Mark Allon)
Date: Mon, 02 Mar 20 13:16:49 +0000
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Pali suttas in Burmese alphabet
In-Reply-To: <CAKA8X41aqXA4UY0c5xn6PCMZTo7vRL+w5N6SnCmEf25JKUyXEA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <SYCPR01MB43191097D8CA14116512E412DDE70@SYCPR01MB4319.ausprd01.prod.outlook.com>

Dear James,

The Pali suttas and other canonical texts, commentaries, etc., can be viewed in a variety of scripts, including Roman and Burmese, within the Cha??ha Sa?g?yana Tipitaka Version 4.0, which you can download from https://www.tipitaka.org/cst4 (and elsewhere).

Best wishes
Mark

Dr Mark Allon
Chair, Dept. of Indian Subcontinental Studies
The University of Sydney
Australia



From: INDOLOGY <indology-bounces at list.indology.info> On Behalf Of James Hartzell via INDOLOGY
Sent: Monday, 2 March 2020 9:58 AM
To: Indology <indology at list.indology.info>
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Pali suttas in Burmese alphabet

Hi

A colleague not on this list sent me the following question:

"I had a request from someone wanting to transliterate Pali suttas
written in the Burmese alphabet using the roman alphabet.

Do you know anyone who may be able to help with this transliteration
work, or who I might ask for help."

Any suggestions will be much appreciated

Cheers
James

--
James Hartzell, PhD (2x)
Basque Center on Cognition, Brain and Language (BCBL), Donostia, Spain
Center for Mind/Brain Sciences (CIMeC), The University of Trento, Italy
Center for Buddhist Studies, Columbia University, USA



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From james.hartzell at gmail.com  Mon Mar  2 17:07:43 2020
From: james.hartzell at gmail.com (James Hartzell)
Date: Mon, 02 Mar 20 18:07:43 +0100
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Pali suttas in Burmese alphabet
In-Reply-To: <SYCPR01MB43191097D8CA14116512E412DDE70@SYCPR01MB4319.ausprd01.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <CAKA8X43xp1=AFoa8uakcVDmDmHVfXjgHrS0ywwUHG0F=BjFAWA@mail.gmail.com>

Thanks Petra, Nagaraj and Mark
I've passed your information along to my colleague.
Cheers
James

On Mon, Mar 2, 2020 at 2:16 PM Mark Allon <mark.allon at sydney.edu.au> wrote:

> Dear James,
>
>
>
> The Pali suttas and other canonical texts, commentaries, etc., can be
> viewed in a variety of scripts, including Roman and Burmese, within the
> Cha??ha Sa?g?yana Tipitaka Version 4.0, which you can download from
> https://www.tipitaka.org/cst4 (and elsewhere).
>
>
>
> Best wishes
>
> Mark
>
>
>
> Dr Mark Allon
>
> Chair, Dept. of Indian Subcontinental Studies
>
> The University of Sydney
>
> Australia
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* INDOLOGY <indology-bounces at list.indology.info> *On Behalf Of *James
> Hartzell via INDOLOGY
> *Sent:* Monday, 2 March 2020 9:58 AM
> *To:* Indology <indology at list.indology.info>
> *Subject:* [INDOLOGY] Pali suttas in Burmese alphabet
>
>
>
> Hi
>
>
>
> A colleague not on this list sent me the following question:
>
>
>
> "I had a request from someone wanting to transliterate Pali suttas
> written in the Burmese alphabet using the roman alphabet.
>
> Do you know anyone who may be able to help with this transliteration
> work, or who I might ask for help."
>
> Any suggestions will be much appreciated
>
>
>
> Cheers
>
> James
>
>
> --
>
> James Hartzell, PhD (2x)
> Basque Center on Cognition, Brain and Language (BCBL), Donostia, Spain
> Center for Mind/Brain Sciences (CIMeC), The University of Trento, Italy
>
> Center for Buddhist Studies, Columbia University, USA
>
>
>


-- 
James Hartzell, PhD (2x)
Basque Center on Cognition, Brain and Language (BCBL), Donostia, Spain
Center for Mind/Brain Sciences (CIMeC), The University of Trento, Italy
Center for Buddhist Studies, Columbia University, USA


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From nagarajpaturi at gmail.com  Mon Mar  2 18:48:10 2020
From: nagarajpaturi at gmail.com (Nagaraj Paturi)
Date: Tue, 03 Mar 20 00:18:10 +0530
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Repetitive recitation of a mantra
In-Reply-To: <DM6PR11MB40590A18503E5B1DDC531E5EA1E60@DM6PR11MB4059.namprd11.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <CAJGj9eZSdWtiNfYSOc5SFsj7jsJFGWVSa4ZE4cuuXBKvEs+CkQ@mail.gmail.com>

https://archive.org/stream/JapaYogaAComprehensiveTreatiseOnMantraSastraBySwamiSivananda/Japa_Yoga__A_Comprehensive_Treatise_on_Mantra-Sastra__By_Swami_Sivananda_djvu.txt

On Sun, Mar 1, 2020, 7:37 PM Matthew Kapstein via INDOLOGY <
indology at list.indology.info> wrote:

> Dear Mr. Haas,
>
> As I recall, Robert Yelle's book *Explaining Mantras *includes some
> discussion of repetition. It is possible, too, that some of the articles in
> Alper's Understanding Mantras at least touch upon the topic. Others on the
> list may be able to offer some guidance to relevant sections in the
> writings of Frits Staal and others who have worked on Vedic recitation and
> related ritual theory.
>
> good luck,
>
> Matthew Kapstein
> Directeur d'?tudes, ?m?rite
> Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes, Paris
>
> Numata Visiting Professor of Buddhist Studies,
> The University of Chicago
> ------------------------------
> *From:* INDOLOGY <indology-bounces at list.indology.info> on behalf of
> Dominik Haas via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info>
> *Sent:* Sunday, March 1, 2020 6:21 AM
> *To:* indology at list.indology.info <indology at list.indology.info>
> *Subject:* [INDOLOGY] Repetitive recitation of a mantra
>
>
> Dear colleagues,
>
> in my exploration of the history of the G?yatr? mantra, I naturally have
> to deal with the practice of *repetitive recitation** of a mantra*. I
> would like to collect as much literature as possible about the origins and
> the development of this specific practice in South Asian religions (of
> course there's a lot about japa and mantras in general, and repeated
> recitation is ubiquitous, but I am looking for more focused studies).
> Serious studies about the psychological effects of repeating a single text
> would also be interesting.
>
> Any references (and/or PDFs) would be very welcome, on or off-list!
>
> Best regards,
> Dominik A. Haas
>
>
> __________________
> *Dominik A. Haas, BA MA*
> PhD Candidate, University of Vienna
> Dissertation proposal: doi.org/10.25365/phaidra.103
> dominik.haas at univie.ac.at
> ORCID: 0000-0002-8505-6112 <https://orcid.org/0000-0002-8505-6112>
> univie.academia.edu/DominikHaas
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
> committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
> unsubscribe)
>


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From nagarajpaturi at gmail.com  Mon Mar  2 19:06:29 2020
From: nagarajpaturi at gmail.com (Nagaraj Paturi)
Date: Tue, 03 Mar 20 00:36:29 +0530
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Repetitive recitation of a mantra
In-Reply-To: <CAJGj9eZSdWtiNfYSOc5SFsj7jsJFGWVSa4ZE4cuuXBKvEs+CkQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAJGj9eYeJy+MZkpTwMXkqPVbhoDZQxDe--g63sX_oeW5ODT+cQ@mail.gmail.com>

https://archive.org/details/in.ernet.dli.2015.274061

On Tue, Mar 3, 2020, 12:18 AM Nagaraj Paturi <nagarajpaturi at gmail.com>
wrote:

>
> https://archive.org/stream/JapaYogaAComprehensiveTreatiseOnMantraSastraBySwamiSivananda/Japa_Yoga__A_Comprehensive_Treatise_on_Mantra-Sastra__By_Swami_Sivananda_djvu.txt
>
> On Sun, Mar 1, 2020, 7:37 PM Matthew Kapstein via INDOLOGY <
> indology at list.indology.info> wrote:
>
>> Dear Mr. Haas,
>>
>> As I recall, Robert Yelle's book *Explaining Mantras *includes some
>> discussion of repetition. It is possible, too, that some of the articles in
>> Alper's Understanding Mantras at least touch upon the topic. Others on the
>> list may be able to offer some guidance to relevant sections in the
>> writings of Frits Staal and others who have worked on Vedic recitation and
>> related ritual theory.
>>
>> good luck,
>>
>> Matthew Kapstein
>> Directeur d'?tudes, ?m?rite
>> Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes, Paris
>>
>> Numata Visiting Professor of Buddhist Studies,
>> The University of Chicago
>> ------------------------------
>> *From:* INDOLOGY <indology-bounces at list.indology.info> on behalf of
>> Dominik Haas via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info>
>> *Sent:* Sunday, March 1, 2020 6:21 AM
>> *To:* indology at list.indology.info <indology at list.indology.info>
>> *Subject:* [INDOLOGY] Repetitive recitation of a mantra
>>
>>
>> Dear colleagues,
>>
>> in my exploration of the history of the G?yatr? mantra, I naturally have
>> to deal with the practice of *repetitive recitation** of a mantra*. I
>> would like to collect as much literature as possible about the origins and
>> the development of this specific practice in South Asian religions (of
>> course there's a lot about japa and mantras in general, and repeated
>> recitation is ubiquitous, but I am looking for more focused studies).
>> Serious studies about the psychological effects of repeating a single text
>> would also be interesting.
>>
>> Any references (and/or PDFs) would be very welcome, on or off-list!
>>
>> Best regards,
>> Dominik A. Haas
>>
>>
>> __________________
>> *Dominik A. Haas, BA MA*
>> PhD Candidate, University of Vienna
>> Dissertation proposal: doi.org/10.25365/phaidra.103
>> dominik.haas at univie.ac.at
>> ORCID: 0000-0002-8505-6112 <https://orcid.org/0000-0002-8505-6112>
>> univie.academia.edu/DominikHaas
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
>> committee)
>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
>> unsubscribe)
>>
>


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From nagarajpaturi at gmail.com  Mon Mar  2 19:21:30 2020
From: nagarajpaturi at gmail.com (Nagaraj Paturi)
Date: Tue, 03 Mar 20 00:51:30 +0530
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Repetitive recitation of a mantra
In-Reply-To: <CAJGj9eYeJy+MZkpTwMXkqPVbhoDZQxDe--g63sX_oeW5ODT+cQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAJGj9eZ5zvpor9UkwP-COwS7jyTgV+jnfjVTbWd=CpJTh+O-ZQ@mail.gmail.com>

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.yogajournal.com/.amp/yoga-101/mantras-101-the-science-behind-finding-your-mantra-and-how-to-practice-it

Neuroscientists, equipped with advanced brain-imaging tools, are beginning
to quantify and confirm some of the health benefits of this ancient
practice, such as its ability to help free your mind of background chatter
and calm your nervous system. In one study recently published in the *Journal
of Cognitive Enhancement
<http://www.springer.com/psychology/cognitive+psychology/journal/41465>*,
researchers from Link?ping University, in Sweden, measured activity in a
region of the brain called the default mode network?the area that?s active
during self-reflection and mind wandering?to determine how practicing
mantra meditation affects the brain. From a mental health perspective, an
overactive default mode network can mean that the brain is distracted?not
calmed or centered.

Researchers behind the Link?ping University study asked a group of subjects
to take part in a two-week Kundalini Yoga course that included six
90-minute sessions over the course of two weeks. Each session started with
yoga exercises (asana <https://www.yogajournal.com/poses> and breathing
<https://www.yogajournal.com/poses/types/pranayama>) and finished with 11
minutes of mantra-based meditation <https://www.yogajournal.com/meditation>.
The subjects recited the Sat nam mantra
<https://www.yogajournal.com/yoga-101/kundalini-yoga-sat-nam-meaning> (roughly
translated as ?true identity?) while placing their hands over their hearts.

The same group also performed a finger-tapping control condition?in which
they were instructed to perform slow-paced button pressing on a four-button
keypad.

The subjects? default mode networks were more suppressed during the mantra
meditation than during the finger-tapping exercise?and suppression grew as
mantra training increased. ?The study suggests that mantra training can
more effectively reduce [default mode network]?related distractions than
something like tapping along to the beat,? says Rozalyn Simon, PhD, who
authored the study.

Research findings such as these do not profess to prove that mantra is a
life-saving technique. But as Malia knows well, when we are beholden to our
discursive mind, we can easily be led down the path to negative
headspace?further away from our true, relaxed nature. In fact, research
suggests that it doesn?t matter whether you recite an ancient Sanskrit
<https://www.yogajournal.com/yoga-101/sanskrit> mantra such as Sat nam, or
the Lord?s Prayer, or any sound, word, or phrase?as long as you repeat
something with focused attention, you?ll get results.

Since the 1970s, Herbert Benson, professor of medicine at Harvard Medical
School and founder of the Benson-Henry Institute for Mind Body Medicine
<https://www.bensonhenryinstitute.org/> at Massachusetts General Hospital,
has been researching how meditation and prayer can alter mental and
physical states. He?s been particularly interested in what brings on a
meditative state, which he calls ?the relaxation response.? Benson has
experimented with subjects repeating Sanskrit mantras as well as
nonreligious words, such as ?one.? He?s found that regardless of what the
practitioner repeats, the word or phrase has nearly the same effects:
relaxation and the ability to better cope with life?s unexpected stressors.

,.....

........

On Tue, Mar 3, 2020, 12:36 AM Nagaraj Paturi <nagarajpaturi at gmail.com>
wrote:

> https://archive.org/details/in.ernet.dli.2015.274061
>
> On Tue, Mar 3, 2020, 12:18 AM Nagaraj Paturi <nagarajpaturi at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>>
>> https://archive.org/stream/JapaYogaAComprehensiveTreatiseOnMantraSastraBySwamiSivananda/Japa_Yoga__A_Comprehensive_Treatise_on_Mantra-Sastra__By_Swami_Sivananda_djvu.txt
>>
>> On Sun, Mar 1, 2020, 7:37 PM Matthew Kapstein via INDOLOGY <
>> indology at list.indology.info> wrote:
>>
>>> Dear Mr. Haas,
>>>
>>> As I recall, Robert Yelle's book *Explaining Mantras *includes some
>>> discussion of repetition. It is possible, too, that some of the articles in
>>> Alper's Understanding Mantras at least touch upon the topic. Others on the
>>> list may be able to offer some guidance to relevant sections in the
>>> writings of Frits Staal and others who have worked on Vedic recitation and
>>> related ritual theory.
>>>
>>> good luck,
>>>
>>> Matthew Kapstein
>>> Directeur d'?tudes, ?m?rite
>>> Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes, Paris
>>>
>>> Numata Visiting Professor of Buddhist Studies,
>>> The University of Chicago
>>> ------------------------------
>>> *From:* INDOLOGY <indology-bounces at list.indology.info> on behalf of
>>> Dominik Haas via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info>
>>> *Sent:* Sunday, March 1, 2020 6:21 AM
>>> *To:* indology at list.indology.info <indology at list.indology.info>
>>> *Subject:* [INDOLOGY] Repetitive recitation of a mantra
>>>
>>>
>>> Dear colleagues,
>>>
>>> in my exploration of the history of the G?yatr? mantra, I naturally have
>>> to deal with the practice of *repetitive recitation** of a mantra*. I
>>> would like to collect as much literature as possible about the origins and
>>> the development of this specific practice in South Asian religions (of
>>> course there's a lot about japa and mantras in general, and repeated
>>> recitation is ubiquitous, but I am looking for more focused studies).
>>> Serious studies about the psychological effects of repeating a single text
>>> would also be interesting.
>>>
>>> Any references (and/or PDFs) would be very welcome, on or off-list!
>>>
>>> Best regards,
>>> Dominik A. Haas
>>>
>>>
>>> __________________
>>> *Dominik A. Haas, BA MA*
>>> PhD Candidate, University of Vienna
>>> Dissertation proposal: doi.org/10.25365/phaidra.103
>>> dominik.haas at univie.ac.at
>>> ORCID: 0000-0002-8505-6112 <https://orcid.org/0000-0002-8505-6112>
>>> univie.academia.edu/DominikHaas
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
>>> committee)
>>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options
>>> or unsubscribe)
>>>
>>


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From hellwig7 at gmx.de  Wed Mar  4 14:24:24 2020
From: hellwig7 at gmx.de (Oliver Hellwig)
Date: Wed, 04 Mar 20 15:24:24 +0100
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Vedic treebank
Message-ID: <c31e9a39-2544-07f2-fadc-19163c7248e9@gmx.de>

Dear all,

for those interested in Vedic syntax: There is now a treebank of ~4,000
text lines from Vedic metrical and prose text; hopefully growing in the
future.

The paper describing the treebank, the treebank itself and additional
material such as syntactic labeler using (flat) deep learning can be
found here:
https://github.com/OliverHellwig/sanskrit/tree/master/papers/2020lrec

Best, Oliver

---
Oliver Hellwig, IVS Z?rich





From sprajapati22 at yahoo.com  Fri Mar  6 05:55:09 2020
From: sprajapati22 at yahoo.com (Dr. Sweta Prajapati)
Date: Fri, 06 Mar 20 05:55:09 +0000
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Call for papers
In-Reply-To: <158307110.2772186.1583474109490.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <158307110.2772186.1583474109490@mail.yahoo.com>

Dear Members
Kindly go through the attached guidelines for contributing your valuable research article to the Journal of Oriental Institute. I am sure that your quality article having outcome of original research will definitely enrich our Journal.
Sweta PrajapatiDirectorOriental InstituteVadodara

Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android


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From andrew.ollett at gmail.com  Fri Mar  6 19:01:57 2020
From: andrew.ollett at gmail.com (Andrew Ollett)
Date: Fri, 06 Mar 20 13:01:57 -0600
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Survey about digital tools and resources
Message-ID: <CAANHO16j1V+1_BK+8q=-P+vw0ja_VAzgZx4pUziZ9YzKG18E4A@mail.gmail.com>

Dear list members,

I have put together a brief survey about the use of digital tools and
resources (broadly defined) in South Asian studies (also broadly defined):

https://forms.gle/4e7MToRciYCqV2Rg7

I hope that a few of you will find the time to respond to it. Of course
I'll be happy to report the results back to this list, and please also feel
free to contact me off-list with any further thoughts or questions about it.

Andrew


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From palaniappa at aol.com  Fri Mar  6 21:54:40 2020
From: palaniappa at aol.com (Sudalaimuthu Palaniappan)
Date: Fri, 06 Mar 20 15:54:40 -0600
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Call for papers
In-Reply-To: <158307110.2772186.1583474109490@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <199A394D-5019-4D66-81F4-D1779B85AE55@aol.com>

With respect to articles on literature, the invitation seems to invite only articles on Sanskrit literature, although the guidelines seem to consider non-Sanskrit and Prakrit works. Why?

 

Thanks

 

Regards,

Palaniappan

 

From: INDOLOGY <indology-bounces at list.indology.info> on behalf of Indology List <indology at list.indology.info>
Reply-To: "sprajapati22 at yahoo.com" <sprajapati22 at yahoo.com>
Date: Thursday, March 5, 2020 at 11:56 PM
To: Indology List <indology at list.indology.info>
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Call for papers

 

Dear Members

 

Kindly go through the attached guidelines for contributing your valuable research article to the Journal of Oriental Institute. I am sure that your quality article having outcome of original research will definitely enrich our Journal.

 

Sweta Prajapati

Director

Oriental Institute

Vadodara

Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android

_______________________________________________ INDOLOGY mailing list INDOLOGY at list.indology.info indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) 



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From drdhaval2785 at gmail.com  Sat Mar  7 13:02:36 2020
From: drdhaval2785 at gmail.com (Dhaval Patel)
Date: Sat, 07 Mar 20 18:32:36 +0530
Subject: =?utf-8?B?W0lORE9MT0dZXSDgpLbgpKzgpY3gpKbgpLDgpKTgpY3gpKjgpKrgpY3gpLDgpKbgpYDgpKo=?=
Message-ID: <CADSGPzXQopyApR2_kXWATxpTVvAfLRmtnw1rX3jdMsmwdCX0mw@mail.gmail.com>

Dear Scholars,
It is my pleasure to present before you the digital version of the
following work.
?abdaratnaprad?pa (Unknown authorship)

https://github.com/sanskrit-kosha/kosha/blob/master/shabdaratnapradipa_agyata/orig/shabdaratnapradipa.txt

It is from Sansknet project, corrected for errors.

With regards,
-- 
Dr. Dhaval Patel, I.A.S
Collector and District Magistrate, Surat
www.sanskritworld.in


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From dominik.haas at univie.ac.at  Sat Mar  7 14:55:56 2020
From: dominik.haas at univie.ac.at (Dominik Haas)
Date: Sat, 07 Mar 20 15:55:56 +0100
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Repetitive recitation of a mantra
In-Reply-To: <ff808808-89b6-a3bf-1523-643ef9facdfe@univie.ac.at>
Message-ID: <774272ae-045b-a1d1-15f9-7cbeda25a17b@univie.ac.at>

Thanks to all those who responded to my email! It turns out that not 
much has been written specifically on the history and development of 
repetitive recitation.

Best regards,
Dominik A. Haas


Am 01.03.2020 um 13:21 schrieb Dominik Haas via INDOLOGY:
>
> Dear colleagues,
>
> in my exploration of the history of the G?yatr? mantra, I naturally 
> have to deal with the practice of *repetitive recitation**of a 
> mantra*. I would like to collect as much literature as possible about 
> the origins and the development of this specific practice in South 
> Asian religions (of course there's a lot about japa and mantras in 
> general, and repeated recitation is ubiquitous, but I am looking for 
> more focused studies). Serious studies about the psychological effects 
> of repeating a single text would also be interesting.
>
> Any references (and/or PDFs) would be very welcome, on or off-list!
>
> Best regards,
> Dominik A. Haas
>
>
> __________________
> *Dominik A. Haas, BA MA*
> PhD Candidate, University of Vienna
> Dissertation proposal: doi.org/10.25365/phaidra.103
> dominik.haas at univie.ac.at <mailto:dominik.haas at univie.ac.at>
> ORCID: 0000-0002-8505-6112 <https://orcid.org/0000-0002-8505-6112>
> univie.academia.edu/DominikHaas <https://univie.academia.edu/DominikHaas>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe)


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From hellwig7 at gmx.de  Sun Mar  8 09:28:19 2020
From: hellwig7 at gmx.de (Oliver Hellwig)
Date: Sun, 08 Mar 20 10:28:19 +0100
Subject: [INDOLOGY] pdf request: Schmidt
In-Reply-To: <mailman.31.1583600402.6844.indology_list.indology.info@list.indology.info>
Message-ID: <215de739-9b00-f037-2a89-131267f57c79@gmx.de>

Dear all,

does anybody have a pdf of Schmidt's "Brhaspati und Indra" and would be
ready to share it?

Thanks, Oliver

---
Oliver Hellwig, IVS Z?rich





From mkapstei at uchicago.edu  Sun Mar  8 09:55:08 2020
From: mkapstei at uchicago.edu (Matthew Kapstein)
Date: Sun, 08 Mar 20 09:55:08 +0000
Subject: [INDOLOGY] rhetorical questions in Sanskrit
In-Reply-To: <215de739-9b00-f037-2a89-131267f57c79@gmx.de>
Message-ID: <DM6PR11MB4059BFF300F1068049940657A1E10@DM6PR11MB4059.namprd11.prod.outlook.com>

Dear friends,

The use of the rhetorical question as a figure of speech has been often noticed in Sanskrit epic, poetry, drama and philosophy. But is there a proper technical term in Sanskrit itself for "rhetorical question"?

In the commentarial treatments that come to mind, the question is paraphrased so as to make explicit the rhetorical intent, but without reference to a precise term to identify the figure. Am I perhaps missing something? Or is it merely treated as falling under some broader category, perhaps vakrokti?

with thanks in advance for your responses,
Matthew

Matthew Kapstein
Directeur d'?tudes, ?m?rite
Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes, Paris

Numata Visiting Professor of Buddhist Studies,
The University of Chicago

________________________________



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From Ophira.Gamliel at glasgow.ac.uk  Sun Mar  8 10:14:05 2020
From: Ophira.Gamliel at glasgow.ac.uk (Ophira Gamliel)
Date: Sun, 08 Mar 20 10:14:05 +0000
Subject: [INDOLOGY] A New Book: A Linguistic Survey of the Malayalam Language in Its Own Terms
Message-ID: <LO2P265MB158287CF2E7DF5B83132A259C4E10@LO2P265MB1582.GBRP265.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>

Dear colleagues,

I am happy to announce the publication of A Linguistic Survey of the Malayalam Language in Its Own Terms (published by Otto Harrassowitz).

I hope the book will be useful for both teachers and researchers of Malayalam language, literature, and culture.

See here for more details:

https://www.harrassowitz-verlag.de/title_6419.ahtml

All the best,

Ophira






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From mmdesh at umich.edu  Sun Mar  8 13:22:51 2020
From: mmdesh at umich.edu (Madhav Deshpande)
Date: Sun, 08 Mar 20 06:22:51 -0700
Subject: [INDOLOGY] rhetorical questions in Sanskrit
In-Reply-To: <DM6PR11MB4059BFF300F1068049940657A1E10@DM6PR11MB4059.namprd11.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <CAB3-dzexLyKpRa=vHFXhBQnSXicu1b_Edp+6Y-6KRiywEqv80Q@mail.gmail.com>

Dear Matthew,

     The term *k?ku *is used in Sanskrit to refer to a rhetorical question.

Madhav M. Deshpande
Professor Emeritus, Sanskrit and Linguistics
University of Michigan, Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA
Senior Fellow, Oxford Center for Hindu Studies

[Residence: Campbell, California, USA]


On Sun, Mar 8, 2020 at 1:56 AM Matthew Kapstein via INDOLOGY <
indology at list.indology.info> wrote:

> Dear friends,
>
> The use of the rhetorical question as a figure of speech has been often
> noticed in Sanskrit epic, poetry, drama and philosophy. But is there a
> proper technical term in Sanskrit itself for "rhetorical question"?
>
> In the commentarial treatments that come to mind, the question is
> paraphrased so as to make explicit the rhetorical intent, but without
> reference to a precise term to identify the figure. Am I perhaps missing
> something? Or is it merely treated as falling under some broader category,
> perhaps vakrokti?
>
> with thanks in advance for your responses,
> Matthew
>
> Matthew Kapstein
> Directeur d'?tudes, ?m?rite
> Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes, Paris
>
> Numata Visiting Professor of Buddhist Studies,
> The University of Chicago
>
> ------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
> committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
> unsubscribe)
>


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From andrew.ollett at gmail.com  Sun Mar  8 14:41:00 2020
From: andrew.ollett at gmail.com (Andrew Ollett)
Date: Sun, 08 Mar 20 09:41:00 -0500
Subject: [INDOLOGY] rhetorical questions in Sanskrit
In-Reply-To: <CAB3-dzexLyKpRa=vHFXhBQnSXicu1b_Edp+6Y-6KRiywEqv80Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAANHO14TT-RugGni_HPySR2rJ48AdhnYZcd56YiSg=WEBg52JA@mail.gmail.com>

Dear Matthew,

It is an interesting question and I'd be curious to see what others say.
The category of "rhetorical question," I suppose, includes questions to
which the speaker does not actually expect an informative answer, including
questions in which the answer is implicit in the question. I have seen
pra?navy?j?na, "in the guise of a question," but not in this sense (rather
when one asks a question in order to distract someone from some other
topic).

One interesting approach is offered by the anonymous commentator on
?aktibhadra's ??caryac???ma?i. He distinguishes surface meaning from "final
meaning" (v?kyaparyavas?nam). So R?va?a's verse at 3.17 (yudhi sarabhasa?
hatv? r?ma? bal?n mayi gr?h?ati svayam anucit? bhartu? ??k?d as?n na kim
ujjhati) is a question, on the surface, which the commentator answers
(ujjhaty ?va). But he then explains the presumptive answer (S?t? will die
if R?ma is killed) as a reason for a further conclusion (therefore R?ma
ought not to be killed). That conclusion is the final meaning (yata ?va?
gr?h?t? s? pr???n parityajati at? r?mahanana? bal?d graha?a? ca na
kartavyam iti v?kyaparyavas?nam). So a rhetorical question might be one
which has the form of a question but has the "final meaning" of something
else, in this case a prohibition. The reverse happens sometimes too, where
something that has the form of a statement is read as a question in its
"final meaning" (e.g., "I see that you're the only one in this ashram" >
"why are you the only one here?").

Andrew

On Sun, Mar 8, 2020 at 8:24 AM Madhav Deshpande via INDOLOGY <
indology at list.indology.info> wrote:

> Dear Matthew,
>
>      The term *k?ku *is used in Sanskrit to refer to a rhetorical
> question.
>
> Madhav M. Deshpande
> Professor Emeritus, Sanskrit and Linguistics
> University of Michigan, Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA
> Senior Fellow, Oxford Center for Hindu Studies
>
> [Residence: Campbell, California, USA]
>
>
> On Sun, Mar 8, 2020 at 1:56 AM Matthew Kapstein via INDOLOGY <
> indology at list.indology.info> wrote:
>
>> Dear friends,
>>
>> The use of the rhetorical question as a figure of speech has been often
>> noticed in Sanskrit epic, poetry, drama and philosophy. But is there a
>> proper technical term in Sanskrit itself for "rhetorical question"?
>>
>> In the commentarial treatments that come to mind, the question is
>> paraphrased so as to make explicit the rhetorical intent, but without
>> reference to a precise term to identify the figure. Am I perhaps missing
>> something? Or is it merely treated as falling under some broader category,
>> perhaps vakrokti?
>>
>> with thanks in advance for your responses,
>> Matthew
>>
>> Matthew Kapstein
>> Directeur d'?tudes, ?m?rite
>> Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes, Paris
>>
>> Numata Visiting Professor of Buddhist Studies,
>> The University of Chicago
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
>> committee)
>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
>> unsubscribe)
>>
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
> committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
> unsubscribe)
>


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From drdhaval2785 at gmail.com  Sun Mar  8 16:07:20 2020
From: drdhaval2785 at gmail.com (Dhaval Patel)
Date: Sun, 08 Mar 20 21:37:20 +0530
Subject: =?utf-8?B?W0lORE9MT0dZXSDgpKrgpLDgpK7gpL7gpKjgpKjgpY3gpKbgpYDgpK/gpKjgpL7gpK7gpK7gpL7gpLLgpL4gb2Yg4KSu4KSV4KSw4KSo4KWN4KSm4KSm4KS+4KS4?=
Message-ID: <CADSGPzU79cooeKWOh=D8OK_cyfvADQhDingeWDF00CizNO0k+A@mail.gmail.com>

Dear Scholars,
It gives me immense pleasure to present before you the following work.
Param?nand?yan?mam?l? of Makarandad?sa

https://github.com/sanskrit-kosha/kosha/blob/master/paramanandiyanamamala_makarandadasa/orig/paramanandiyanamamala.txt

The work is proof read from erstwhile Sansknet project data.
Special thanks to Mr. Manish Rajpara for proof reading pages 1-100 and
typing in Anek?rthasa?graha part de novo.


-- 
Dr. Dhaval Patel, I.A.S
Collector and District Magistrate, Surat
www.sanskritworld.in


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From mmdesh at umich.edu  Sun Mar  8 17:42:38 2020
From: mmdesh at umich.edu (Madhav Deshpande)
Date: Sun, 08 Mar 20 10:42:38 -0700
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Coronavirus
Message-ID: <CAB3-dzdy-8_4466XJAKqQSF8SaXCMvT+Q_woPFg8nenRxWky5A@mail.gmail.com>

Coronavirus - "Touch me not!"

?????????????????? ????????? ???????????? ?????? ?
?????????? ??? ?????? ?? ????? ?? ??? ????? ??

O my dear! I am scared of the touch of the Coronavirus. If you really love
me, please don't don't don't ever touch me.

Madhav M. Deshpande
Professor Emeritus, Sanskrit and Linguistics
University of Michigan, Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA
Senior Fellow, Oxford Center for Hindu Studies

[Residence: Campbell, California, USA]


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From mmdesh at umich.edu  Sun Mar  8 18:01:59 2020
From: mmdesh at umich.edu (Madhav Deshpande)
Date: Sun, 08 Mar 20 11:01:59 -0700
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Coronavirus 2
Message-ID: <CAB3-dze5pAJBcfZ2Gp5Z4LK7WO3XY45QgmuK-63L7XX77isb2w@mail.gmail.com>

Coronavirus - "Touch me not" 2

? ?????????? ??????? ?????????????? ?? ?
??????????? ??????: ????? ???????? ?????? ??: ??

Saying "I will not take her hand as long as I am scared of touch," a groom
quickly exited the wedding hall.

Madhav M. Deshpande
Professor Emeritus, Sanskrit and Linguistics
University of Michigan, Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA
Senior Fellow, Oxford Center for Hindu Studies

[Residence: Campbell, California, USA]


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From mmdesh at umich.edu  Mon Mar  9 00:01:52 2020
From: mmdesh at umich.edu (Madhav Deshpande)
Date: Sun, 08 Mar 20 17:01:52 -0700
Subject: =?utf-8?B?W0lORE9MT0dZXSDgpJ/gpY3gpLDgpK7gpY3gpKrgpL7gpLjgpYHgpLDgpLXgpYPgpKTgpY3gpKTgpL7gpKjgpY3gpKQ6?=
Message-ID: <CAB3-dzc4-DYiqEi0DfcTJi=O+xMxG=oKCdyv-iBKE7R39+QEaQ@mail.gmail.com>

I am not translating this one -


?????????? ???????????????????????????: ?
????????? ??????? ????????? ?????: ??
??????? ?? ????????? ?? ?????????????: ?
? ?????? ????? ??????? ????? ???????????? ??
???????????? ??????? ??????? ????? ?? ???? ?
????????: ????????? ??????????? ??:???? ??
??????????? ???????? ??? ?????????????? ?
??????????????? ??????? ???????? ??
??? ???????? ? ??????? ??? ??:??????????????: ?
??????? ??????????? ?? ??????????: ???????? ??
? ??? ????????????? ?????? ???????????? ?
????????????? ???? ????????? ????: ???? ??


Madhav M. Deshpande
Professor Emeritus, Sanskrit and Linguistics
University of Michigan, Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA
Senior Fellow, Oxford Center for Hindu Studies

[Residence: Campbell, California, USA]


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From jemhouben at gmail.com  Mon Mar  9 10:19:40 2020
From: jemhouben at gmail.com (Jan E.M. Houben)
Date: Mon, 09 Mar 20 11:19:40 +0100
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Coronavirus
In-Reply-To: <CAB3-dzdy-8_4466XJAKqQSF8SaXCMvT+Q_woPFg8nenRxWky5A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAGCGLoA=xGCw5OO=2GoYWnrreR=zjU=VChtiwhJrsQdsP7A63g@mail.gmail.com>

Thanks, Madhav, we should not lose our sense of humor.

' ?????????? ????   ?????????? ?? ?? ' ?
????????????? ????? ??  ' ?????????????? ?????? '?

This is going to have a worldwide impact for quite some time, not only on
health care, economy, social life, but also on the organization of our
scientific events etc.

https://www.outlookindia.com/website/story/india-news-cow-urine-dung-can-treat-coronavirus-says-hindu-mahasabha-president-swami-chakrapani-maharaj/346571
more recent discussions from Indian perspective:
https://www.outlookindia.com/magazine/issue/11663
statistics:
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/


On Sun, 8 Mar 2020 at 18:43, Madhav Deshpande via INDOLOGY <
indology at list.indology.info> wrote:

> Coronavirus - "Touch me not!"
>
> ?????????????????? ????????? ???????????? ?????? ?
> ?????????? ??? ?????? ?? ????? ?? ??? ????? ??
>
> O my dear! I am scared of the touch of the Coronavirus. If you really love
> me, please don't don't don't ever touch me.
>
> Madhav M. Deshpande
> Professor Emeritus, Sanskrit and Linguistics
> University of Michigan, Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA
> Senior Fellow, Oxford Center for Hindu Studies
>
> [Residence: Campbell, California, USA]
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
> committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
> unsubscribe)
>


-- 

*Jan E.M. Houben*

Directeur d'?tudes, Professor of South Asian History and Philology

*Sources et histoire de la tradition sanskrite*

?cole Pratique des Hautes ?tudes (EPHE, Paris Sciences et Lettres)

*Sciences historiques et philologiques *

*johannes.houben [at] ephe.psl.eu <johannes.houben at ephe.psl.eu>*

*https://ephe-sorbonne.academia.edu/JanEMHouben
<https://ephe-sorbonne.academia.edu/JanEMHouben>*


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From mmdesh at umich.edu  Mon Mar  9 14:23:35 2020
From: mmdesh at umich.edu (Madhav Deshpande)
Date: Mon, 09 Mar 20 07:23:35 -0700
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Coronavirus "Touch me not"
Message-ID: <CAB3-dzdRFkTE4LSvj5y0WwhFHD9N+zsprhK80bHV=C4nF0LrCw@mail.gmail.com>

Coronavirus - ?Touch me not? 3

??????????????????? ?????????????????: ?

? ???????? ??????? ???????? ?????: ?????????? ??

This new Yoga of No Touch is brought to you by the Coronavirus.  I shall
not touch anything and I have turned away even from my own face.


Coronavirus - ?Touch me not? 4

????????? ?????????????????: ?? ????????? ?

????????????? ????? ????????? ???????? ??

If touching is forbidden, of what use are the two of us.  With this worry,
the two hands just look at each other from a distance.


Madhav M. Deshpande
Professor Emeritus, Sanskrit and Linguistics
University of Michigan, Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA
Senior Fellow, Oxford Center for Hindu Studies

[Residence: Campbell, California, USA]


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From dmellins at gmail.com  Mon Mar  9 14:48:26 2020
From: dmellins at gmail.com (David Mellins)
Date: Mon, 09 Mar 20 10:48:26 -0400
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Coronavirus "Touch me not"
In-Reply-To: <CAB3-dzdRFkTE4LSvj5y0WwhFHD9N+zsprhK80bHV=C4nF0LrCw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <50120705-A2EA-48E7-BF5C-8D9E2B90499F@gmail.com>

Great, Madhav!

Sent from my iPhone

> On Mar 9, 2020, at 10:24 AM, Madhav Deshpande via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info> wrote:
> 
> ?
> Coronavirus - ?Touch me not? 3
> ??????????????????? ?????????????????: ?
> ? ???????? ??????? ???????? ?????: ?????????? ??
> This new Yoga of No Touch is brought to you by the Coronavirus.  I shall not touch anything and I have turned away even from my own face.
> 
> Coronavirus - ?Touch me not? 4
> ????????? ?????????????????: ?? ????????? ?
> ????????????? ????? ????????? ???????? ??
> If touching is forbidden, of what use are the two of us.  With this worry, the two hands just look at each other from a distance.
> 
> Madhav M. Deshpande
> Professor Emeritus, Sanskrit and Linguistics
> University of Michigan, Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA
> Senior Fellow, Oxford Center for Hindu Studies
> 
> [Residence: Campbell, California, USA]
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe)


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From hhhock at illinois.edu  Mon Mar  9 15:42:53 2020
From: hhhock at illinois.edu (Hock, Hans Henrich)
Date: Mon, 09 Mar 20 15:42:53 +0000
Subject: =?utf-8?B?UmU6IFtJTkRPTE9HWV0g4KSf4KWN4KSw4KSu4KWN4KSq4KS+4KS44KWB4KSw4KS14KWD4KSk4KWN4KSk4KS+4KSo4KWN4KSkOg==?=
In-Reply-To: <CAB3-dzc4-DYiqEi0DfcTJi=O+xMxG=oKCdyv-iBKE7R39+QEaQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4925A437-2AA1-4A7E-B032-F155AACCE1F3@illinois.edu>

???? ????


On 8 Mar2020, at 19:01, Madhav Deshpande via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info<mailto:indology at list.indology.info>> wrote:


I am not translating this one -


?????????? ???????????????????????????: ?
????????? ??????? ????????? ?????: ??
??????? ?? ????????? ?? ?????????????: ?
? ?????? ????? ??????? ????? ???????????? ??
???????????? ??????? ??????? ????? ?? ???? ?
????????: ????????? ??????????? ??:???? ??
??????????? ???????? ??? ?????????????? ?
??????????????? ??????? ???????? ??
??? ???????? ? ??????? ??? ??:??????????????: ?
??????? ??????????? ?? ??????????: ???????? ??
? ??? ????????????? ?????? ???????????? ?
????????????? ???? ????????? ????: ???? ??


Madhav M. Deshpande
Professor Emeritus, Sanskrit and Linguistics
University of Michigan, Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA
Senior Fellow, Oxford Center for Hindu Studies

[Residence: Campbell, California, USA]
_______________________________________________
INDOLOGY mailing list
INDOLOGY at list.indology.info<mailto:INDOLOGY at list.indology.info>
indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee)
http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe)



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From shalinisinha90 at hotmail.com  Mon Mar  9 18:14:23 2020
From: shalinisinha90 at hotmail.com (Shalini Sinha)
Date: Mon, 09 Mar 20 18:14:23 +0000
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Postdoctoral Research Fellow in Hindu Philosophy, Global Philosophy of Religion Project funded by the John Templeton Foundation
Message-ID: <VI1PR03MB4910AB70C3028F9792F4831FC3FE0@VI1PR03MB4910.eurprd03.prod.outlook.com>

Posted on behalf of Prof. Yujin Nagasawa, University of Birmingham.  For further information, please contact Prof. Nagasawa at:   Y.Nagasawa at bham.ac.uk<mailto:Y.Nagasawa at bham.ac.uk>


Post-Doctoral Research Fellow in Hindu Philosophy of Religion - 95868 - School of Philsophy, Theology and Religion - Grade 7*
- (200001AT)


Position Details

School of Philosophy, Theology and Religion, College of Arts and Law

Location: University of Birmingham, Edgbaston, Birmingham UK

Full time

Grade 7

Full time starting salary is normally in the range ?30,942 to ?40,322. With potential progression once in post to ?42,792 a year.

Fixed term until May 31, 2023

Closing date: April 7, 2020

Background

We are now recruiting a postdoctoral Research Fellow in Hindu Philosophy of Religion in the School of Philosophy, Theology and Religion at the University of Birmingham. This role has been created as part of the Global Philosophy of Religion Project led by Professor Yujin Nagasawa. We are also recruiting a postdoctoral Research Fellows in Islamic Philosophy of Religion and Jewish Philosophy of Religion.

The Global Philosophy of Religion Project

The Global Philosophy of Religion Project is a major international initiative to promote research in the philosophy of religion, addressing underrepresented religious traditions and geographical regions. It is supported by funding from the John Templeton Foundation and the Dynamic Investment Fund (DIF) at the University of Birmingham.

For more information about the Global Philosophy of Religion Project, please see the project website: http://www.global-philosophy.org<http://www.global-philosophy.org/>

Project Team

The project team will consist of the Principal Investigator (Nagasawa), the Project Manager, Senior Lecturer in Philosophy of Religion, three postdoctoral Research Fellows (one each in Hindu, Islamic and Jewish Philosophy of Religion) and an administrator. They will work closely with the advisory board of the project, which consists of scholars from diverse regions and religious traditions.

Details of this Post

The Research Fellow in Hindu Philosophy of Religion will be a full-time, fixed-term appointment for 33 months starting on 1st September 2020. The appointee will investigate central topics in the philosophy of religion?such as the existence and nature of deities, death and immortality, and evil and suffering in the world?from a Hindu perspective. The Research Fellow will contribute to the wider activity of the project, including the publication of books and papers arising from project research and the organisation of conferences and other academic events, and may also be involved in the supervision of students. As a member of the School of Philosophy, Theology and Religion, the Research Fellow will join a lively and flourishing research community in a collegiate and highly ambitious environment.


Main Duties

The responsibilities may include some but not all of the responsibilities outlined below.
? Develop research objectives and proposals for own or joint research, with assistance of a mentor if required
? Contribute to writing bids for research funding
? Analyse and interpret data
? Apply knowledge in a way which develops new intellectual understanding
? Disseminate research findings for publication, research seminars etc
? Supervise students on research related work and provide guidance to PhD students where appropriate to the discipline
? Contribute to developing new models, techniques and methods
? Undertake management/administration arising from research
? Contribute to Departmental/School research-related activities and research-related administration
? Contribute to enterprise, business development and/or public engagement activities of manifest benefit to the College and the University, often under supervision of a project leader
? Collect research data; this may be through a variety of research methods, such as scientific experimentation, literature reviews, and research interviews
? Present research outputs, including drafting academic publications or parts thereof, for example at seminars and as posters
? Provide guidance, as required, to support staff and any students who may be assisting with the research
? Deal with problems that may affect the achievement of research objectives and deadlines
Scope of the Role
? Work within specified research grants and projects and contribute to writing bids
? Operate within area of specialism
? Analyse and interpret research findings and results
? Contribute to generating funding
? Contribute to licensing or spin out deals with demonstrated commercial success (such as revenues, asset or company sales, IP generated) and/or public understanding of the discipline or similar
Person Specification
? Specialist in Hindu philosophy of religion with a doctorate (or near completion) in Philosophy, Theology, Religious Studies or a related subject.
? An excellent publication record commensurate with their career stage
? High-level analytical capability
? Ability to communicate complex information clearly
? Fluency in relevant models, techniques or methods and ability to contribute to developing new ones
? Ability to assess resource requirements and use resources effectively
? Understanding of and ability to contribute to broader management/administration processes
Informal enquires can be made to Y.Nagasawa at bham.ac.uk<mailto:Y.Nagasawa at bham.ac.uk>

We value diversity at The University of Birmingham and welcome applications from all sections of the community?

Valuing excellence; sustaining investment

Primary Location GB-GB-Birmingham
Work Locations ERI Building Pritchatts Road University of BirminghamEdgbaston Birmingham B15 2TT
Job Academic Non-clinical
Organization Philosophy, Theology and Religion
Schedule Regular
Full-time
Job Posting 02.03.2020, 5:35:16 AM
Grade (for job description) Grade 7




Dr. Shalini Sinha
Lecturer in Non-Western Philosophy

Edith Morley G 66
Department of Philosophy,
The University of Reading,
Reading, Berkshire RG6 6AA.


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From luther.obrock at gmail.com  Mon Mar  9 18:14:18 2020
From: luther.obrock at gmail.com (luther obrock)
Date: Mon, 09 Mar 20 14:14:18 -0400
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Summer School in South Asian Epigraphy, University of Toronto, Mississauga, May 28th-Jun 1
Message-ID: <CALM2Y+ovWiTMz+JghwMb7cLVXCje3uGCrmJPYyuuDz2p94gnKw@mail.gmail.com>

The University of Toronto Mississauga is pleased to announce the 2020
Summer School in South Asian Epigraphy from May 28th to June 1st. The theme
of this year?s 5-day summer school is the Sanskrit Epigraphical Ecumene.
The Post-Gupta explosion of epigraphic evidence demonstrates two
tendencies: one toward an increasing standardization of idiom and one
toward a diversification of scripts. To trace the evolution of this
important archive, we will examine inscriptions, their paleographical,
historical, and cultural importance, and their contexts within the larger
fields of art history, religion, literature, and history. Each day will
consist of two reading sessions concentrating on primary epigraphical
sources, and one discussion session of a topic salient to South Asian
epigraphy.



The Summer School will be led by scholars in the field of South Asian
epigraphy,
religion, and history. Scheduled facilitators include:



Daud Ali (University of Pennsylvania)

Elizabeth Cecil (Florida State University, Tallahassee)

Ranabir Chakravarti (Jawaharlal Nehru University)

Mekhola Gomes (University of Toronto)

Jason Neelis (Wilfrid Laurier University, Waterloo)

Luther Obrock (University of Toronto)

Annette Schmiedchen (Humboldt University, Berlin)



The Summer School will host a keynote speech by the renowned historian of
medieval South Asia, Brajadulal Chattopadhyaya (Prof. Emeritus, Jawaharlal
Nehru University, Delhi). This public lecture will bring together the
themes of the workshop and present them to a wider audience.

Room and board will be provided for the five days of the workshop to a
limited number of scholars and graduate students coming from outside of the
Greater Toronto Area. To apply for the summer school or for further
information, please contact Luther Obrock at luther.obrock at utoronto.ca


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From e.demichelis at ymail.com  Mon Mar  9 18:35:03 2020
From: e.demichelis at ymail.com (Elizabeth De Michelis)
Date: Mon, 09 Mar 20 18:35:03 +0000
Subject: =?utf-8?Q?[INDOLOGY]_Long_Yogas=C5=ABtra_course,_Summer_2020_-_Long_cours_Yogas=C5=ABtra,_=C3=A9t=C3=A9_2020?=
In-Reply-To: <511847713.10560161.1583778903265.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <511847713.10560161.1583778903265@mail.yahoo.com>

(For English see below)
 
Chers coll?gues,

AMRAY, dont je suis une des managers, souhaiteannoncer un cours intensif sur le Yogas?traqui se d?roulera en France cet ?t? (mi-juin ? mi-ao?t 2020). Le cours seradonn? par le Dr Michel Angot ? partir du texte sanskrit du Yogas?tra et de ses principaux commentaires. La partie philologique du cours consistera en unminimum de 6 heures de cours de jour, avec des sessions d?di?es ? la r?citationde textes sanskrits en soir?e.
Le cours est actuellement complet, mais AMRAY a provisoirement r?serv? deuxplaces pour deux philologues. Les candidats devront?: (1)??tre?tr?s int?ress?s par ce texte et (2) avoir lescomp?tences linguistiques n?cessaires, c'est-?-dire une connaissance moyenne ouavanc?e du sanskrit?et?avoir la ma?trise du fran?ais et / oudu russe, les deux langues de cours (veuillez noter que l'anglais n'est pasenvisag?). 

AMRAY peut ?tre en mesure d'offrir un certain niveau de soutien financier auxcandidats concern?s si cela est n?cessaire. Les candidats int?ress?s sont pri?sde me contacter??d?s que possible, et au plus tard le 10 avril,sur?asso.amray at gmail.com?afinde discuter plus en d?tail.
N'h?sitez pas ? faire suivre ce message ? toutepersonne susceptible d'?tre int?ress?e.
Cordialement,
Elizabeth De MichelisModern Yoga Research
JoYS


+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++


Dear Colleagues,
AMRAY, of which I am one of the managers, would like toadvertise to suitable candidates an intensive course on the Yogas?tra that will take place in France thisSummer (mid-June to mid-August 2020). The course will be taught by Dr MichelAngot and will be based on the Sanskrit text of the Yogas?tra and its main commentaries. Thephilological part of the course will consist of a minimum of 6 hours of daytime lectures, withevening sessions dedicated to recitation of Sanskrit texts. 
The course is currently fully booked, but AMRAY hasprovisionally reserved a couple of places specifically for allocation to philologistswho may be able to attend. Suitable candidates should (1) be keenly interestedin this text and (2) have the necessary linguistic skills, i.e. medium toadvanced knowledge of Sanskrit andfluency in French and/or Russian, the course languages (please note noEnglish). 
AMRAY may be able to offer some level of sponsorship tosuitable candidates should that be needed. Interested parties should contact meat asso.amray at gmail.com as soon as possible, and by 10April at the latest in order to discuss further details. 

Please feel free to circulate this message to any suitablecandidate who may not be on this list.
With all good wishes,
Elizabeth De MichelisModern Yoga Research
JoYS




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From sauthoff at ualberta.ca  Wed Mar 11 03:47:54 2020
From: sauthoff at ualberta.ca (Patricia Sauthoff)
Date: Tue, 10 Mar 20 21:47:54 -0600
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Online course copyrights/ideas -- Slightly off-topic
Message-ID: <CAPAr6cGxuN-KC_3Q=yBrTppqVS1-vyNB6UtgR4_9ijtj5hORYw@mail.gmail.com>

Dear all (cross-posted to RISA & Indology)

With the swift move to online courses in the wake of covid19, I wonder if
those on the lists well-versed in online copyright might give us some tips
to protecting our materials.

I discussed the possibility of my discussion-based Modern Yoga course going
online with my students and they offered some helpful suggestions:

*short (10-15 pre-recorded video lectures by the professor) followed by a
Twitch livestream, which would involve them asking questions/engaging in
discussion via text and the professor answering questions and leading a
chat discussion via video
*written assignments using guided discussion questions in a discussion
forum
*maintaining a live online presence during usual class hours (but with the
archival capabilities of Twitch)

In the wake of these international university closures, I think it would be
helpful to have a thread dedicated to online pedagogies that we find
success with.



-- 
Patricia Sauthoff
(she/her/they/them)
Postdoctoral Fellow
AyurYog.org
Department of History and Classics
University of Alberta
Edmonton, Canada


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From wujastyk at gmail.com  Wed Mar 11 07:25:42 2020
From: wujastyk at gmail.com (Dominik Wujastyk)
Date: Wed, 11 Mar 20 12:55:42 +0530
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Online course copyrights/ideas -- Slightly off-topic
In-Reply-To: <CAPAr6cGxuN-KC_3Q=yBrTppqVS1-vyNB6UtgR4_9ijtj5hORYw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAKdt-Cc5END33fr5QXykmBR=b5Ro82RZaXPJo2q3JOXzRwZk_Q@mail.gmail.com>

I can recommend our own university's Office for Copyright that offers a lot
of online support
<https://www.ualberta.ca/faculty-and-staff/copyright/student-staff-guide/index.html>
as well as classroom tutorials.  I've attended one of these and it was
small and quite focussed.  Recommended.

The short version is this: place two statements on all materials you
release:

   1. a copyright statement by the person who created the materials (e.g.,
   "(C) Patricia Sauthoff, 2020")
   2. a license stating the terms under which you, as (C) holder, would
   like your materials to be shared.  The best source for such a license is
   the Creativecommons.org, where several options are explained clearly (click
   "share your work" and then follow the prompts).
   A commonly used and recommended license is the "BY-SA
   <https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/>" one, which means
   anyone copying your stuff must acknowledge that it's yours and anything
   they do with it must also be shared under the same BY-SA terms.

Best,
Dominik

--
Professor Dominik Wujastyk
<https://www.ualberta.ca/arts/about/people-collection/dominik-wujastyk>
,

Singhmar Chair in Classical Indian Society and Polity
,

Department of History and Classics <http://historyandclassics.ualberta.ca/>
,
University of Alberta, Canada
.

South Asia at the U of A:

sas.ualberta.ca



On Wed, 11 Mar 2020 at 09:19, Patricia Sauthoff via INDOLOGY <
indology at list.indology.info> wrote:

> Dear all (cross-posted to RISA & Indology)
>
> With the swift move to online courses in the wake of covid19, I wonder if
> those on the lists well-versed in online copyright might give us some tips
> to protecting our materials.
>
> I discussed the possibility of my discussion-based Modern Yoga course
> going online with my students and they offered some helpful suggestions:
>
> *short (10-15 pre-recorded video lectures by the professor) followed by a
> Twitch livestream, which would involve them asking questions/engaging in
> discussion via text and the professor answering questions and leading a
> chat discussion via video
> *written assignments using guided discussion questions in a discussion
> forum
> *maintaining a live online presence during usual class hours (but with the
> archival capabilities of Twitch)
>
> In the wake of these international university closures, I think it would
> be helpful to have a thread dedicated to online pedagogies that we find
> success with.
>
>
>
> --
> Patricia Sauthoff
> (she/her/they/them)
> Postdoctoral Fellow
> AyurYog.org
> Department of History and Classics
> University of Alberta
> Edmonton, Canada
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
> committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
> unsubscribe)
>


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From Peter.Flugel at soas.ac.uk  Wed Mar 11 12:44:16 2020
From: Peter.Flugel at soas.ac.uk (Peter Flugel)
Date: Wed, 11 Mar 20 12:44:16 +0000
Subject: [INDOLOGY] (Non) Violence 22nd SOAS Jaina Studies Workshop Cancelled and Postponed
Message-ID: <CAF+JJrkmYa9xSdrKGDG0RFRDZ+iNjM=UrGiQbYaSLs=uzEkuxQ@mail.gmail.com>

Due to unforeseen circumstances, the Annual Jaina Studies Lecture
<https://www.soas.ac.uk/jainastudies/events/20mar2020-the-20th-annual-jaina-lecture.html>
 and Workshop
<https://www.soas.ac.uk/jainastudies/events/21mar2020-22nd-jaina-studies-workshop-non-violence.html>
on
20th and 21st March 2020 at 5:15pm have been *cancelled* and will be
*postponed* for a later date.

https://www.soas.ac.uk/jainastudies/events/

We apologise for any inconvenience caused.

With Best Regards,

Dr Peter Fl?gel
Chair, Centre of Jaina Studies
Professor of the Study of Religions and Philosophies
Department of History, Religions and Philosophies
School of Oriental and African Studies
University of London
Thornhaugh Street
Russell Square
London WC1H OXG

Tel.: (+44-20) 7898 4776
E-mail: pf8 at soas.ac.uk
http://www.soas.ac.uk/jainastudies


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From pf8 at soas.ac.uk  Wed Mar 11 12:49:58 2020
From: pf8 at soas.ac.uk (Peter Flugel)
Date: Wed, 11 Mar 20 12:49:58 +0000
Subject: [INDOLOGY] (Non) Violence 22nd SOAS Jaina Studies Workshop Cancelled and Postponed
Message-ID: <CAF+JJrm6dOs6Ok4ku26iGvY-8mMW2imSjVCfAfWcRnE-Xi5qfw@mail.gmail.com>

Due to unforeseen circumstances, the Annual Jaina Studies Lecture
<https://www.soas.ac.uk/jainastudies/events/20mar2020-the-20th-annual-jaina-lecture.html>
 and Workshop
<https://www.soas.ac.uk/jainastudies/events/21mar2020-22nd-jaina-studies-workshop-non-violence.html>
on
20th and 21st March 2020 at 5:15pm have been *cancelled* and will be
*postponed* for a later date.

https://www.soas.ac.uk/jainastudies/events/

We apologise for any inconvenience caused.

With Best Regards,


Dr Peter Fl?gel
Chair, Centre of Jaina Studies
Professor of the Study of Religions and Philosophies
Department of History, Religions and Philosophies
School of Oriental and African Studies
University of London
Thornhaugh Street
Russell Square
London WC1H OXG

Tel.: (+44-20) 7898 4776
E-mail: pf8 at soas.ac.uk
http://www.soas.ac.uk/jainastudies


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From jemhouben at gmail.com  Thu Mar 12 07:19:58 2020
From: jemhouben at gmail.com (Jan E.M. Houben)
Date: Thu, 12 Mar 20 08:19:58 +0100
Subject: =?utf-8?B?UmU6IFtJTkRPTE9HWV0g4KSf4KWN4KSw4KSu4KWN4KSq4KS+4KS44KWB4KSw4KS14KWD4KSk4KWN4KSk4KS+4KSo4KWN4KSkOg==?=
In-Reply-To: <CAB3-dzc4-DYiqEi0DfcTJi=O+xMxG=oKCdyv-iBKE7R39+QEaQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAGCGLoDkdYYepn3eHLqWKkM-oAiPE4Dv2eYRh13L=n598PrrqQ@mail.gmail.com>

Dear Madhav,
Brilliant (with ?????????  -- something about the Swedish? no -- >>>
?????????) .
This inspires me to extend my mini-composition:

??????????????????  ????? ??????? ????? ?

? ???? ?????? ??????? ?   ? ???? ??????? ??????? ? ?

' ?????????? ????  ?????????? ?? ?? ' ?

????????????? ????? ?? ' ?????????????? ?????? '?

? ?????? ?????????  ????????? ?????? ? ?

??????????????? ????  ???????? ???????? ?


Jan Houben

On Mon, 9 Mar 2020 at 01:03, Madhav Deshpande via INDOLOGY <
indology at list.indology.info> wrote:

> I am not translating this one -
>
>
> ?????????? ???????????????????????????: ?
> ????????? ??????? ????????? ?????: ??
> ??????? ?? ????????? ?? ?????????????: ?
> ? ?????? ????? ??????? ????? ???????????? ??
> ???????????? ??????? ??????? ????? ?? ???? ?
> ????????: ????????? ??????????? ??:???? ??
> ??????????? ???????? ??? ?????????????? ?
> ??????????????? ??????? ???????? ??
> ??? ???????? ? ??????? ??? ??:??????????????: ?
> ??????? ??????????? ?? ??????????: ???????? ??
> ? ??? ????????????? ?????? ???????????? ?
> ????????????? ???? ????????? ????: ???? ??
>
>
> Madhav M. Deshpande
> Professor Emeritus, Sanskrit and Linguistics
> University of Michigan, Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA
> Senior Fellow, Oxford Center for Hindu Studies
>
> [Residence: Campbell, California, USA]
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
> committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
> unsubscribe)
>


-- 

*Jan E.M. Houben*

Directeur d'?tudes, Professor of South Asian History and Philology

*Sources et histoire de la tradition sanskrite*

?cole Pratique des Hautes ?tudes (EPHE, Paris Sciences et Lettres)

*Sciences historiques et philologiques *

*johannes.houben [at] ephe.psl.eu <johannes.houben at ephe.psl.eu>*

*https://ephe-sorbonne.academia.edu/JanEMHouben
<https://ephe-sorbonne.academia.edu/JanEMHouben>*


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From jemhouben at gmail.com  Thu Mar 12 07:56:22 2020
From: jemhouben at gmail.com (Jan E.M. Houben)
Date: Thu, 12 Mar 20 08:56:22 +0100
Subject: [INDOLOGY] textual repetition in Harry Falk's Bruderschaft und Wuerfelspiel...
Message-ID: <CAGCGLoDDeh46bDYXSma8oWdN-jDzegjncmByiHQe+ia+GE3BUg@mail.gmail.com>

Dear All,
One of the first books I actually bought as a student in the domain of
Vedic studies (instead of borrowing it) was Harry Falk's Bruderschaft und
Wuerfelspiel, published in 1986 by Hedwig Falk.
Frits Staal's AGNI in two volumes was at that time beyond the reach of a
student's budget (but it later became accessible on account of the
beautiful Indian reprint by Motilal Banarsidass; at present downloadable at
archive.org).
A textual repetition towards the end of Falk's Bruderschaft seems to cover
up, as in the aniruktagaana, some more significant sentences in the
conclusion. Wherever I have seen a library copy of the book I saw the same
textual repetition.
Anyone can help to identify the underlying, intended sentences?
And: does anyone have a scan for me of H. Falk's companion-article on
Wuerfelspiele in Indien, Journal fuer Geschichte, 6/1984, 12-17?
Best,
Jan Houben

Harry Falk, *Bruderschaft und W?rfelspiel.* Freiburg: Hedwig Falk, 1986



p. 193

...

...

... sitzen. Das hei?t, er geb?rdet sich bei der Gabenverteilung als
Hausvater, der die M?chte der Dunkelheit bezeichnenderweise mit K?hen
zufriedenstellt.

Var?a-System auch genau...

...

...

...

...

...

... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ...
... ... ... ... entkleidet. Heterogenes



p. 194

l??t sich eine ?nderung der Lebensweise feststellen. Statt Gerste wird nun

bevorzugt der Arbeitsintensive Reis angebaut, die Bev?lkerung lebt mehr und
mehr se?haft in festen Siedlungen und kann sich aufgrund des erh?hten
Nahrungsangebots erheblich vermehren.[562] Gerade aus dieser ?bergangsphase

stammen ...

ihre ...

Sabh? ... ... ... ... ... . Aber

ein Volk von Reisbauern ben?tigt eine staatliche Ordnung, die mit dem Vier-

Var?a-System auch genau...

...

...

...

...

...

... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ...
... ... ...  entkleidet. Heterogenes

wurde vermischt, doch mu? zu Beginn des *?**rauta*-Opfers f?r jeden
Teilnehmer

oder Zuschauer das Vorbild noch erkennbar gewesen sein.



As for the following passage, also on p. 193, I thought it would match
nicely with the recent work of Caley Smith on the impersonation of the
Vedic Indra etc.:


p. 193

...

Man mu? damit rechnen, da? Rudra, Indra die Maruts und vielleicht noch
einige andere G?tter nicht einfach als numinose Kr?fte begriffen wurden,
sondern, wie heute noch die

?living goddesses? in Kathmandu, verk?rpert von Menschen aus Fleisch und
Blut durchs Land zogen.







-- 

*Jan E.M. Houben*

Directeur d'?tudes, Professor of South Asian History and Philology

*Sources et histoire de la tradition sanskrite*

?cole Pratique des Hautes ?tudes (EPHE, Paris Sciences et Lettres)

*Sciences historiques et philologiques *

*johannes.houben [at] ephe.psl.eu <johannes.houben at ephe.psl.eu>*

*https://ephe-sorbonne.academia.edu/JanEMHouben
<https://ephe-sorbonne.academia.edu/JanEMHouben>*


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From jemhouben at gmail.com  Thu Mar 12 12:22:11 2020
From: jemhouben at gmail.com (Jan E.M. Houben)
Date: Thu, 12 Mar 20 13:22:11 +0100
Subject: =?utf-8?B?UmU6IFtJTkRPTE9HWV0g4KSf4KWN4KSw4KSu4KWN4KSq4KS+4KS44KWB4KSw4KS14KWD4KSk4KWN4KSk4KS+4KSo4KWN4KSkOg==?=
In-Reply-To: <CAGCGLoDkdYYepn3eHLqWKkM-oAiPE4Dv2eYRh13L=n598PrrqQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAGCGLoBx_xu-f2mAxkf_MsGJgBbNPDKwFBxe74DME52-BE2sfQ@mail.gmail.com>

With correct sandhi and making better sense in 2c:
??????????????????  ????? ??????? ????? ?

? ???? ?????? ??????? ?   ? ???? ??????? ??????? ? ?

' ?????????? ????  ?????????? ?? ?? ' ?

???????????????? ?? ' ?????????????? ?????? '?

? ?????? ?????????  ????????? ?????? ? ?

??????????????? ????  ???????? ???????? ?

On Thu, 12 Mar 2020 at 08:19, Jan E.M. Houben <jemhouben at gmail.com> wrote:

> Dear Madhav,
> Brilliant (with ?????????  -- something about the Swedish? no -- >>>
> ?????????) .
> This inspires me to extend my mini-composition:
>
> ??????????????????  ????? ??????? ????? ?
>
> ? ???? ?????? ??????? ?   ? ???? ??????? ??????? ? ?
>
> ' ?????????? ????  ?????????? ?? ?? ' ?
>
> ????????????? ????? ?? ' ?????????????? ?????? '?
>
> ? ?????? ?????????  ????????? ?????? ? ?
>
> ??????????????? ????  ???????? ???????? ?
>
>
> Jan Houben
>
> On Mon, 9 Mar 2020 at 01:03, Madhav Deshpande via INDOLOGY <
> indology at list.indology.info> wrote:
>
>> I am not translating this one -
>>
>>
>> ?????????? ???????????????????????????: ?
>> ????????? ??????? ????????? ?????: ??
>> ??????? ?? ????????? ?? ?????????????: ?
>> ? ?????? ????? ??????? ????? ???????????? ??
>> ???????????? ??????? ??????? ????? ?? ???? ?
>> ????????: ????????? ??????????? ??:???? ??
>> ??????????? ???????? ??? ?????????????? ?
>> ??????????????? ??????? ???????? ??
>> ??? ???????? ? ??????? ??? ??:??????????????: ?
>> ??????? ??????????? ?? ??????????: ???????? ??
>> ? ??? ????????????? ?????? ???????????? ?
>> ????????????? ???? ????????? ????: ???? ??
>>
>>
>> Madhav M. Deshpande
>> Professor Emeritus, Sanskrit and Linguistics
>> University of Michigan, Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA
>> Senior Fellow, Oxford Center for Hindu Studies
>>
>> [Residence: Campbell, California, USA]
>> _______________________________________________
>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
>> committee)
>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
>> unsubscribe)
>>
>
>
> --
>
> *Jan E.M. Houben*
>
> Directeur d'?tudes, Professor of South Asian History and Philology
>
> *Sources et histoire de la tradition sanskrite*
>
> ?cole Pratique des Hautes ?tudes (EPHE, Paris Sciences et Lettres)
>
> *Sciences historiques et philologiques *
>
> *johannes.houben [at] ephe.psl.eu <johannes.houben at ephe.psl.eu>*
>
> *https://ephe-sorbonne.academia.edu/JanEMHouben
> <https://ephe-sorbonne.academia.edu/JanEMHouben>*
>


-- 

*Jan E.M. Houben*

Directeur d'?tudes, Professor of South Asian History and Philology

*Sources et histoire de la tradition sanskrite*

?cole Pratique des Hautes ?tudes (EPHE, Paris Sciences et Lettres)

*Sciences historiques et philologiques *

*johannes.houben [at] ephe.psl.eu <johannes.houben at ephe.psl.eu>*

*https://ephe-sorbonne.academia.edu/JanEMHouben
<https://ephe-sorbonne.academia.edu/JanEMHouben>*


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From mmdesh at umich.edu  Thu Mar 12 13:28:04 2020
From: mmdesh at umich.edu (Madhav Deshpande)
Date: Thu, 12 Mar 20 06:28:04 -0700
Subject: =?utf-8?B?UmU6IFtJTkRPTE9HWV0g4KSf4KWN4KSw4KSu4KWN4KSq4KS+4KS44KWB4KSw4KS14KWD4KSk4KWN4KSk4KS+4KSo4KWN4KSkOg==?=
In-Reply-To: <CAGCGLoDkdYYepn3eHLqWKkM-oAiPE4Dv2eYRh13L=n598PrrqQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAB3-dzcSBWUt0cD_FjxUkCfyEAa=g=P2FNUCy0itr9ddADjAEw@mail.gmail.com>

Beautiful, Jan.

Madhav M. Deshpande
Professor Emeritus, Sanskrit and Linguistics
University of Michigan, Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA
Senior Fellow, Oxford Center for Hindu Studies

[Residence: Campbell, California, USA]


On Thu, Mar 12, 2020 at 12:20 AM Jan E.M. Houben <jemhouben at gmail.com>
wrote:

> Dear Madhav,
> Brilliant (with ?????????  -- something about the Swedish? no -- >>>
> ?????????) .
> This inspires me to extend my mini-composition:
>
> ??????????????????  ????? ??????? ????? ?
>
> ? ???? ?????? ??????? ?   ? ???? ??????? ??????? ? ?
>
> ' ?????????? ????  ?????????? ?? ?? ' ?
>
> ????????????? ????? ?? ' ?????????????? ?????? '?
>
> ? ?????? ?????????  ????????? ?????? ? ?
>
> ??????????????? ????  ???????? ???????? ?
>
>
> Jan Houben
>
> On Mon, 9 Mar 2020 at 01:03, Madhav Deshpande via INDOLOGY <
> indology at list.indology.info> wrote:
>
>> I am not translating this one -
>>
>>
>> ?????????? ???????????????????????????: ?
>> ????????? ??????? ????????? ?????: ??
>> ??????? ?? ????????? ?? ?????????????: ?
>> ? ?????? ????? ??????? ????? ???????????? ??
>> ???????????? ??????? ??????? ????? ?? ???? ?
>> ????????: ????????? ??????????? ??:???? ??
>> ??????????? ???????? ??? ?????????????? ?
>> ??????????????? ??????? ???????? ??
>> ??? ???????? ? ??????? ??? ??:??????????????: ?
>> ??????? ??????????? ?? ??????????: ???????? ??
>> ? ??? ????????????? ?????? ???????????? ?
>> ????????????? ???? ????????? ????: ???? ??
>>
>>
>> Madhav M. Deshpande
>> Professor Emeritus, Sanskrit and Linguistics
>> University of Michigan, Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA
>> Senior Fellow, Oxford Center for Hindu Studies
>>
>> [Residence: Campbell, California, USA]
>> _______________________________________________
>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
>> committee)
>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
>> unsubscribe)
>>
>
>
> --
>
> *Jan E.M. Houben*
>
> Directeur d'?tudes, Professor of South Asian History and Philology
>
> *Sources et histoire de la tradition sanskrite*
>
> ?cole Pratique des Hautes ?tudes (EPHE, Paris Sciences et Lettres)
>
> *Sciences historiques et philologiques *
>
> *johannes.houben [at] ephe.psl.eu <johannes.houben at ephe.psl.eu>*
>
> *https://ephe-sorbonne.academia.edu/JanEMHouben
> <https://ephe-sorbonne.academia.edu/JanEMHouben>*
>


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From pf8 at soas.ac.uk  Thu Mar 12 19:25:51 2020
From: pf8 at soas.ac.uk (Peter Flugel)
Date: Thu, 12 Mar 20 19:25:51 +0000
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Jaina Studies: Newsletter of the Centre of Jaina Studies Vol. 15 (2020)
Message-ID: <CAF+JJrm7TXo2bLFzMVv2pLwZ1z2WD_=8tFdBhiN+XY3-9MXEig@mail.gmail.com>

Jaina Studies: Newsletter of the Centre of Jaina Studies Vol. 15 (2020)
https://www.soas.ac.uk/jainastudies/newsletter/file146694.pdf


Dr Peter Fl?gel
Chair, Centre of Jaina Studies
Professor of the Study of Religions and Philosophies
Department of History, Religions and Philosophies
School of Oriental and African Studies
University of London
Thornhaugh Street
Russell Square
London WC1H OXG

Tel.: (+44-20) 7898 4776
E-mail: pf8 at soas.ac.uk
http://www.soas.ac.uk/jainastudies


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From mmdesh at umich.edu  Fri Mar 13 03:45:36 2020
From: mmdesh at umich.edu (Madhav Deshpande)
Date: Thu, 12 Mar 20 20:45:36 -0700
Subject: [INDOLOGY] A little distraction from Coronavirus
Message-ID: <CAB3-dzcUCF_99yMQY02jJeYknucbjO-ECwh4pBupDRGfchr2XQ@mail.gmail.com>

A little distraction from Coronavirus -

????????????? ???? ?????? ???????? ?
????? ????????? ??????????? ?? ??: ??

My body may be old, but the mind is still young. With the beauty of poetry
next to me, who worries about my age?


Madhav M. Deshpande
Professor Emeritus, Sanskrit and Linguistics
University of Michigan, Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA
Senior Fellow, Oxford Center for Hindu Studies

[Residence: Campbell, California, USA]


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From mmdesh at umich.edu  Fri Mar 13 04:32:55 2020
From: mmdesh at umich.edu (Madhav Deshpande)
Date: Thu, 12 Mar 20 21:32:55 -0700
Subject: [INDOLOGY] A distraction from Coronavirus
Message-ID: <CAB3-dzf8x-W9xGK5qn-MVhqJqr6+dg_cQAR40MYMt03qPeO0kA@mail.gmail.com>

A little distraction from Coronavirus -

?? ??? ???????? ?????????? ???? ???????? ?
?????? ??? ??????? ??? ???? ????????? ??

In the land of Vraja, Radha said to Krishna: "Don't touch me. First go and
kill that Corona, as you killed Putana before."

Madhav M. Deshpande
Professor Emeritus, Sanskrit and Linguistics
University of Michigan, Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA
Senior Fellow, Oxford Center for Hindu Studies

[Residence: Campbell, California, USA]


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From jemhouben at gmail.com  Fri Mar 13 07:19:44 2020
From: jemhouben at gmail.com (Jan E.M. Houben)
Date: Fri, 13 Mar 20 08:19:44 +0100
Subject: [INDOLOGY] A distraction from Coronavirus
In-Reply-To: <CAB3-dzf8x-W9xGK5qn-MVhqJqr6+dg_cQAR40MYMt03qPeO0kA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAGCGLoB1q+CmDmS5RhY4ZvZ-DUiQGc7OX1qb_UQ0S_w41133Rw@mail.gmail.com>

?????????????????  ????? ? ???? ??????? ?

??? ???????? ????????  ??? ??????? ????????? ?



Not difficult to guess who is here the ?????? ...

Even then, ????? should be deemed possible as a somewhat pedantic parallel
form.

The attribution of grammatical gender is not taught by grammar, but in view
of the enormity of the phenomenon the feminine seems a good choice (cp.
him?n? vs. hima).

Jan Houben



On Fri, 13 Mar 2020 at 05:34, Madhav Deshpande via INDOLOGY <
indology at list.indology.info> wrote:

> A little distraction from Coronavirus -
>
> ?? ??? ???????? ?????????? ???? ???????? ?
> ?????? ??? ??????? ??? ???? ????????? ??
>
> In the land of Vraja, Radha said to Krishna: "Don't touch me. First go and
> kill that Corona, as you killed Putana before."
>
> Madhav M. Deshpande
> Professor Emeritus, Sanskrit and Linguistics
> University of Michigan, Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA
> Senior Fellow, Oxford Center for Hindu Studies
>
> [Residence: Campbell, California, USA]
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
> committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
> unsubscribe)
>


-- 

*Jan E.M. Houben*

Directeur d'?tudes, Professor of South Asian History and Philology

*Sources et histoire de la tradition sanskrite*

?cole Pratique des Hautes ?tudes (EPHE, Paris Sciences et Lettres)

*Sciences historiques et philologiques *

*johannes.houben [at] ephe.psl.eu <johannes.houben at ephe.psl.eu>*

*https://ephe-sorbonne.academia.edu/JanEMHouben
<https://ephe-sorbonne.academia.edu/JanEMHouben>*


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From rembert at ochs.org.uk  Fri Mar 13 13:00:47 2020
From: rembert at ochs.org.uk (Rembert Lutjeharms)
Date: Fri, 13 Mar 20 13:00:47 +0000
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Sanskrit Traditions in the Modern World (Call for Papers)
Message-ID: <CAPM+OO6ZSJxp6ec8vYBai+fKrHHbuE7QF4fjT80vqyK639rgdg@mail.gmail.com>

*Sanskrit Traditions in the Modern World *

*Friday 29th May 2020 *
Trinity College, Oxford

The STIWM symposium for 2020 will take place in Oxford on Friday 29th May
at Trinity College (Sutro Room). We invite proposals for papers from both
established and rising academics on any aspects of South Asia?s
rich Sanskrit religious and intellectual culture. Sanskrit Traditions in
the Modern World (STIMW) is a forum for the discussion of the Sanskrit
traditions of South Asia, and the texts and cultures that have risen out of
them.

Proposals of no more 300 words should be submitted by *Friday 27th March
2020*.

Please send your proposal to *stimw at ochs.org.uk <stimw at ochs.org.uk> *.

More information about STIMW can be found here:
https://www.ochs.org.uk/research/sanskrit-traditions-modern-world

Older archives and information for past STIMW events at the University of
Manchester can be found here:
https://www.alc.manchester.ac.uk/religions-and-theology/connect/events/stimw/

*Papers and Format *- Papers are presented by leading scholars in the field
as well as by research students. Papers are pre-circulated so that
participants can read them before the seminar to ensure the best possible
use of discussion time.  Papers are therefore not read out at the seminar
itself but instead briefly introduced by the chair who will then raise
questions to the paper-giver, before opening the discussion. Papers should
be no longer than 20 A4 pages, including notes and references. To
facilitate discussion for those short of reading time, paper-givers should
provide a one-page abstract of the key argument of the paper, along with
their paper.  Please include your email address for further feedback.


-- 
Dr. Rembert Lutjeharms
Oxford Centre for Hindu Studies
13-15 Magdalen Street
Oxford OX1 3AE United Kingdom
Tel.: +44 (0)1865 304300


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From mmdesh at umich.edu  Fri Mar 13 13:21:22 2020
From: mmdesh at umich.edu (Madhav Deshpande)
Date: Fri, 13 Mar 20 06:21:22 -0700
Subject: [INDOLOGY] A distraction from Coronavirus
Message-ID: <CAB3-dzf51=6DE1FCEKGscEYrynGk2bO26skEconL9a8YRJRcuQ@mail.gmail.com>

A distraction from Coronavirus

????????? ??????????? ?????? ???? ?? ?
????????????????????? ???????: ???????????? ??

Restricted to my own house, I keep on running with my mind.  Otherwise, for
those with minds occupied with Corona, what other exercise is possible?

Madhav M. Deshpande
Professor Emeritus, Sanskrit and Linguistics
University of Michigan, Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA
Senior Fellow, Oxford Center for Hindu Studies

[Residence: Campbell, California, USA]


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From mmdesh at umich.edu  Fri Mar 13 13:25:21 2020
From: mmdesh at umich.edu (Madhav Deshpande)
Date: Fri, 13 Mar 20 06:25:21 -0700
Subject: [INDOLOGY] A distraction from Coronavirus
In-Reply-To: <CAGCGLoB1q+CmDmS5RhY4ZvZ-DUiQGc7OX1qb_UQ0S_w41133Rw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAB3-dzeCwfA=f_LFg2gV0iqxa66+Adye7GX+abTg4_u_DvkBag@mail.gmail.com>

Dear Jan,

?????? ??????? ???????? ?????? ????????????? ?
????????????????? ???????????? ? ??????? ??

Madhav M. Deshpande
Professor Emeritus, Sanskrit and Linguistics
University of Michigan, Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA
Senior Fellow, Oxford Center for Hindu Studies

[Residence: Campbell, California, USA]


On Fri, Mar 13, 2020 at 12:20 AM Jan E.M. Houben <jemhouben at gmail.com>
wrote:

> ?????????????????  ????? ? ???? ??????? ?
>
> ??? ???????? ????????  ??? ??????? ????????? ?
>
>
>
> Not difficult to guess who is here the ?????? ...
>
> Even then, ????? should be deemed possible as a somewhat pedantic parallel
> form.
>
> The attribution of grammatical gender is not taught by grammar, but in
> view of the enormity of the phenomenon the feminine seems a good choice
> (cp. him?n? vs. hima).
>
> Jan Houben
>
>
>
> On Fri, 13 Mar 2020 at 05:34, Madhav Deshpande via INDOLOGY <
> indology at list.indology.info> wrote:
>
>> A little distraction from Coronavirus -
>>
>> ?? ??? ???????? ?????????? ???? ???????? ?
>> ?????? ??? ??????? ??? ???? ????????? ??
>>
>> In the land of Vraja, Radha said to Krishna: "Don't touch me. First go
>> and kill that Corona, as you killed Putana before."
>>
>> Madhav M. Deshpande
>> Professor Emeritus, Sanskrit and Linguistics
>> University of Michigan, Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA
>> Senior Fellow, Oxford Center for Hindu Studies
>>
>> [Residence: Campbell, California, USA]
>> _______________________________________________
>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
>> committee)
>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
>> unsubscribe)
>>
>
>
> --
>
> *Jan E.M. Houben*
>
> Directeur d'?tudes, Professor of South Asian History and Philology
>
> *Sources et histoire de la tradition sanskrite*
>
> ?cole Pratique des Hautes ?tudes (EPHE, Paris Sciences et Lettres)
>
> *Sciences historiques et philologiques *
>
> *johannes.houben [at] ephe.psl.eu <johannes.houben at ephe.psl.eu>*
>
> *https://ephe-sorbonne.academia.edu/JanEMHouben
> <https://ephe-sorbonne.academia.edu/JanEMHouben>*
>


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From vasishtha.spier at gmail.com  Fri Mar 13 15:47:13 2020
From: vasishtha.spier at gmail.com (Harry Spier)
Date: Fri, 13 Mar 20 11:47:13 -0400
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Kannada font
Message-ID: <CAJ3b0o8aF_pWH47CHbjXMcc3sGQT-3hua-=C45UJOJkOdKNJVw@mail.gmail.com>

Can anyone recommend a good unicode Kannada font.
Thanks
Harry Spier


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From raik.strunz at indologie.uni-halle.de  Fri Mar 13 17:02:40 2020
From: raik.strunz at indologie.uni-halle.de (Raik Strunz)
Date: Fri, 13 Mar 20 18:02:40 +0100
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Antw:  A distraction from Coronavirus
In-Reply-To: <CAB3-dzf51=6DE1FCEKGscEYrynGk2bO26skEconL9a8YRJRcuQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5E6BCAC0020000C3000A846B@gwia0.itz.uni-halle.de>

Just adding some more semi-distraction, 
what about a class VII parasm. nasal infix present ?to Trump?.

???????????? ?? ????????? ??????? ????????????? ?
??????? ?????? ???????? ????????????? ??????? ?
? ???????????? ?? ????????? ? ???????? ??? ???? ?? ?
????????? ? ????????????????? ????????????? ?
? ?? ?? ??????????? ??????? ???? ??????? ? ?????? ?? ?


Best,


Raik Strunz











???????????




Raik Strunz, M.A.


Wissenschaftlicher Mitarbeiter
Email: raik.strunz at indologie.uni-halle.de
Tel.: +49 345 / 55 23655 


Martin-Luther-Universit?t Halle-Wittenberg
Institut f?r Altertumswissenschaften
Seminar f?r Indologie
Emil-Abderhalden-Stra?e 9
D-06108 Halle (Saale)


www.indologie.uni-halle.de


???????????


??????????? ??????? ?
 

>>> Madhav Deshpande via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info> 13.03.20
14.23 Uhr >>>
A distraction from Coronavirus




????????? ??????????? ?????? ???? ?? ?

????????????????????? ???????: ???????????? ??




Restricted to my own house, I keep on running with my mind.  Otherwise,
for those with minds occupied with Corona, what other exercise is
possible?



Madhav M. DeshpandeProfessor Emeritus, Sanskrit and Linguistics
University of Michigan, Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA
Senior Fellow, Oxford Center for Hindu Studies


[Residence: Campbell, California, USA]








 



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From dharmaprof108 at yahoo.com  Fri Mar 13 23:07:01 2020
From: dharmaprof108 at yahoo.com (Jeffery Long)
Date: Fri, 13 Mar 20 23:07:01 +0000
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Book Announcement
In-Reply-To: <527649207.5390480.1584140821286.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <527649207.5390480.1584140821286@mail.yahoo.com>

Dear Colleagues,
I am very happy to announce the publication of the second edition of my Historical Dictionary of Hinduism (by Rowman and Littlefield publishers). ?My copies arrived in today?s mail!
All the best,Jeff
Dr. Jeffery D. LongProfessor of Religion and Asian StudiesElizabethtown College


Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


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From krishnaprasadah.g at gmail.com  Sat Mar 14 07:20:15 2020
From: krishnaprasadah.g at gmail.com (Krishnaprasad G)
Date: Sat, 14 Mar 20 12:50:15 +0530
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Kannada font
In-Reply-To: <CAJ3b0o8aF_pWH47CHbjXMcc3sGQT-3hua-=C45UJOJkOdKNJVw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAODNnZiGgPSH9B=e2A0T9x66enpqEG6p+8zH5tUw77auppQA2Q@mail.gmail.com>

Kannada Serif Noto

On Fri, Mar 13, 2020, 9:18 PM Harry Spier via INDOLOGY <
indology at list.indology.info> wrote:

> Can anyone recommend a good unicode Kannada font.
> Thanks
> Harry Spier
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
> committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
> unsubscribe)
>


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From jemhouben at gmail.com  Sat Mar 14 08:53:35 2020
From: jemhouben at gmail.com (Jan E.M. Houben)
Date: Sat, 14 Mar 20 09:53:35 +0100
Subject: [INDOLOGY] A distraction from Coronavirus
In-Reply-To: <CAB3-dzeCwfA=f_LFg2gV0iqxa66+Adye7GX+abTg4_u_DvkBag@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAGCGLoBALMrJ1sSvSuUWc2ixSup2ZiQVjBrJGjTNXY9HCw0FGQ@mail.gmail.com>

Excellent argument.

????????????????? ?   ??????????? ??????? ?

??? *??????*????????   ?? ????????????? ???????? ?

Jan Houben

On Fri, 13 Mar 2020 at 14:25, Madhav Deshpande <mmdesh at umich.edu> wrote:

> Dear Jan,
>
> ?????? ??????? ???????? ?????? ????????????? ?
> ????????????????? ???????????? ? ??????? ??
>
> Madhav M. Deshpande
> Professor Emeritus, Sanskrit and Linguistics
> University of Michigan, Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA
> Senior Fellow, Oxford Center for Hindu Studies
>
> [Residence: Campbell, California, USA]
>
>
> On Fri, Mar 13, 2020 at 12:20 AM Jan E.M. Houben <jemhouben at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> ?????????????????  ????? ? ???? ??????? ?
>>
>> ??? ???????? ????????  ??? ??????? ????????? ?
>>
>>
>>
>> Not difficult to guess who is here the ?????? ...
>>
>> Even then, ????? should be deemed possible as a somewhat pedantic
>> parallel form.
>>
>> The attribution of grammatical gender is not taught by grammar, but in
>> view of the enormity of the phenomenon the feminine seems a good choice
>> (cp. him?n? vs. hima).
>>
>> Jan Houben
>>
>>
>>
>> On Fri, 13 Mar 2020 at 05:34, Madhav Deshpande via INDOLOGY <
>> indology at list.indology.info> wrote:
>>
>>> A little distraction from Coronavirus -
>>>
>>> ?? ??? ???????? ?????????? ???? ???????? ?
>>> ?????? ??? ??????? ??? ???? ????????? ??
>>>
>>> In the land of Vraja, Radha said to Krishna: "Don't touch me. First go
>>> and kill that Corona, as you killed Putana before."
>>>
>>> Madhav M. Deshpande
>>> Professor Emeritus, Sanskrit and Linguistics
>>> University of Michigan, Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA
>>> Senior Fellow, Oxford Center for Hindu Studies
>>>
>>> [Residence: Campbell, California, USA]
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
>>> committee)
>>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options
>>> or unsubscribe)
>>>
>>
>>
>>


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From drdhaval2785 at gmail.com  Sat Mar 14 10:19:19 2020
From: drdhaval2785 at gmail.com (Dhaval Patel)
Date: Sat, 14 Mar 20 15:49:19 +0530
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Request for lexica - 3
Message-ID: <CADSGPzUwUfcJ6-+zhoNCyyQYm9Pou+8twmvPVY9369+WywDuYw@mail.gmail.com>

If any of the scholars can provide the scanned copy if the following work,
I would be obliged.

??????????????? of ?????????.

Ironically I already have the digital copy from Sansknet project. I do not
have physical copy to proof read.


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From vasishtha.spier at gmail.com  Sat Mar 14 12:40:07 2020
From: vasishtha.spier at gmail.com (Harry Spier)
Date: Sat, 14 Mar 20 08:40:07 -0400
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Kannada font
In-Reply-To: <CAJ3b0o8aF_pWH47CHbjXMcc3sGQT-3hua-=C45UJOJkOdKNJVw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAJ3b0o_hSZVJJ0URSF=i+d8sDt-m5kEPMj1onF9e1H6Kyf_EwQ@mail.gmail.com>

Thank you to everyone who replied on and off line.  The font is for a
colleague who will be entering small amounts of text (bhajans) and will be
having some helpers typing in from home.  So are there on-line or
dpwnloadable tools for typing in Kannada text  (keyboards or online sites
for text conversion etc.)
Thanks,
Harry Spier

On Fri, Mar 13, 2020 at 11:47 AM Harry Spier <vasishtha.spier at gmail.com>
wrote:

> Can anyone recommend a good unicode Kannada font.
> Thanks
> Harry Spier
>


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From martingansten at gmail.com  Sat Mar 14 12:46:00 2020
From: martingansten at gmail.com (Martin Gansten)
Date: Sat, 14 Mar 20 13:46:00 +0100
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Kannada font
In-Reply-To: <CAJ3b0o_hSZVJJ0URSF=i+d8sDt-m5kEPMj1onF9e1H6Kyf_EwQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <77221291-04a8-975f-7c64-3d7139e79e59@gmail.com>

I have found Aksharamukha <https://aksharamukha.appspot.com/converter> 
to be extremely helpful for this sort of thing.

Best wishes,
Martin Gansten


Den 2020-03-14 kl. 13:40, skrev Harry Spier via INDOLOGY:
> Thank you to everyone who replied on and off line. The font is for a 
> colleague who will be entering small amounts of text (bhajans) and 
> will be having some helpers typing in from home.? So are there on-line 
> or dpwnloadable tools for typing in Kannada text? (keyboards or online 
> sites for text conversion etc.)
> Thanks,
> Harry Spier
>
> On Fri, Mar 13, 2020 at 11:47 AM Harry Spier 
> <vasishtha.spier at gmail.com <mailto:vasishtha.spier at gmail.com>> wrote:
>
>     Can anyone recommend a good unicode Kannada font.
>     Thanks
>     Harry Spier
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe)



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From mmdesh at umich.edu  Sat Mar 14 13:51:42 2020
From: mmdesh at umich.edu (Madhav Deshpande)
Date: Sat, 14 Mar 20 06:51:42 -0700
Subject: [INDOLOGY] A little distraction from Corona
Message-ID: <CAB3-dzcxtWsUtkwnJ5b0rzb+OmEMEHX0urbX1Zb5aDRr9_1Gaw@mail.gmail.com>

A little distraction from Corona -

??????????????????? ??????: ??????????????? ?
????????????????????????????? ????????? ??? ??

Scared of the touch of Corona, the great grammarian Panini, at the very end
of his grammar, uttered the "untouched" sounds "a a" [? ?].

Note: According to phoneticians, the pronunciation of the vowel "a" [?] has
a completely clear vocal track with no contact of oral organs.
[image: Image may contain: possible text that says '500 ?????? PANINI 2004
???? INDIA']
<https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=2899807470107125&set=a.372454259509138&type=3&av=100002337007828&eav=AfZCqGzW13JR5k0HsMBOknXMATAd4VlaPmdKNgHBQtoSXfbrszucLBDS6qD3EiZ2VW4&eid=ARDkEp3dhtvfiZ-YIz7CBYuAk3eZ1DYN2qJpLhibT9xA3C4Ukdp7nqV7ohgVb28Vq7r7cu6EpFh1XM8P>

Madhav M. Deshpande
Professor Emeritus, Sanskrit and Linguistics
University of Michigan, Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA
Senior Fellow, Oxford Center for Hindu Studies

[Residence: Campbell, California, USA]
Madhav M. Deshpande
Professor Emeritus, Sanskrit and Linguistics
University of Michigan, Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA
Senior Fellow, Oxford Center for Hindu Studies

[Residence: Campbell, California, USA]


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From drdhaval2785 at gmail.com  Sat Mar 14 15:32:39 2020
From: drdhaval2785 at gmail.com (Dhaval Patel)
Date: Sat, 14 Mar 20 21:02:39 +0530
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Request for lexica - 4
Message-ID: <CADSGPzUrOd1h2GHeXTSrfgGmHdkTR1xEPcfvZpnhfz-OthndQg@mail.gmail.com>

Respected Scholars,
The following lexica have been mentioned in Vogel.
If any one of you can help me locate some of these works, I would be
obliged.
I understand that some of these may be just manuscripts, never printed.
But I have not been conclusively able to rule out their publication, nor
have been able to access them.

1. ???????? ??????? (Poona,S. A. Khandekar, 1945, 234 pp.)
2. ????????? ?????????????
3. ?????????????? ??????? ???????
4. ?????????????? ??????????
5. ??????????????? ?????
6. ?????????? ?????? ??????
7. ????????????? ??????? ???????
8. ??????????????????? ?????????/??????
9. ??n???????? ????????
10. ????????? ??????
11. ??????????????? ???????
12. ???? (???????????????????????) ????? ???

-- 
Dr. Dhaval Patel, I.A.S
Collector and District Magistrate, Surat
www.sanskritworld.in


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From wujastyk at gmail.com  Sun Mar 15 09:07:23 2020
From: wujastyk at gmail.com (Dominik Wujastyk)
Date: Sun, 15 Mar 20 14:37:23 +0530
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Anup catalogue scan?
Message-ID: <CAKdt-Ce+20ajTDS9rHT80VtsPjyxsBc=qc_sT5YC5259U3LMvA@mail.gmail.com>

Does anyone have a scan of the old Anup Sanskrit library catalogue by
Madhava Sharma and Kunhan Raja?

Raja, C. K. & Sarma, K. M. K., *Catalogue of the Anup Sanskrit Library*.
Bikaner: Government Press, 1944.

Worldcat permalink: http://www.worldcat.org/oclc/500256367

Or the 1993 reprint.

With thanks,
Dominik


--
Professor Dominik Wujastyk
<https://www.ualberta.ca/arts/about/people-collection/dominik-wujastyk>
,

Singhmar Chair in Classical Indian Society and Polity
,

Department of History and Classics <http://historyandclassics.ualberta.ca/>
,
University of Alberta, Canada
.

South Asia at the U of A:

sas.ualberta.ca


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From Heleen.DeJonckheere at UGent.be  Sun Mar 15 11:24:43 2020
From: Heleen.DeJonckheere at UGent.be (Heleen De Jonckheere)
Date: Sun, 15 Mar 20 11:24:43 +0000
Subject: [INDOLOGY] CONFERENCE Jain Practices of Literary Transcreation
Message-ID: <f33efbc7675d442d92588b29e3035952@xmail102.UGent.be>

Dear all,

Considering the current situation caused by COVID-19, we would like to update you on our plans for the upcoming Conference on Jain Practices of Literary Transcreation.
For now, we still plan to hold the conference at Ghent University on the 21st and 22nd of May 2020.
We are following up the situation in detail and will propose a new date if necessary.

All the best,
Heleen De Jonckheere
Eva De Clercq


Heleen De Jonckheere
Doctoral Researcher (BOF)
Dept. Languages and Cultures
Ghent University
Blandijnberg 2 - 9000 Ghent - Room 150.009
Heleen.DeJonckheere at Ugent.be<mailto:Heleen.DeJonckheere at Ugent.be>
www.jainastudies.ugent.be<http://www.jainastudies.ugent.be>






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From krishnaprasadah.g at gmail.com  Sun Mar 15 12:01:40 2020
From: krishnaprasadah.g at gmail.com (Krishnaprasad G)
Date: Sun, 15 Mar 20 17:31:40 +0530
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Beautiful writing style in Sanskrit among modern authors?
Message-ID: <CAODNnZjw71Ec6cCm4a+31pPTw2dE3YAMmoUDZ-w5pTNJigGsMw@mail.gmail.com>

Dear all
I am searching for the different writing styles in Sanskrit where we can
express our thoughts in the style of contemporary.

 For example, T Ganapati Shastri. Counter example Jaggu Vakalbhushana.
Please name some great authors, even written thing may be preface, letter,
commentary will be useful.

Thanks.


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From mmdesh at umich.edu  Sun Mar 15 12:58:09 2020
From: mmdesh at umich.edu (Madhav Deshpande)
Date: Sun, 15 Mar 20 05:58:09 -0700
Subject: [INDOLOGY] A distraction from the Coronavirus
Message-ID: <CAB3-dzc2-7s-dEm74rqdhjUPUBe_oSb8VmNF0zt13iLxE9dM6w@mail.gmail.com>

A distraction from the Coronavirus -

??????????????? ???: ??????: ???????? ??????? ?
????????? ???????? ??????????????????: ??

With the concern that the pronunciation of consonants often involves
contact of organs in the vocal track, those who fear the touch of Corona
should speak only with vowels.

Madhav M. Deshpande
Professor Emeritus, Sanskrit and Linguistics
University of Michigan, Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA
Senior Fellow, Oxford Center for Hindu Studies

[Residence: Campbell, California, USA]


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From andrew.ollett at gmail.com  Sun Mar 15 15:37:39 2020
From: andrew.ollett at gmail.com (Andrew Ollett)
Date: Sun, 15 Mar 20 10:37:39 -0500
Subject: [INDOLOGY] A distraction from the Coronavirus
In-Reply-To: <CAB3-dzc2-7s-dEm74rqdhjUPUBe_oSb8VmNF0zt13iLxE9dM6w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAANHO16QzwssB-qHT7nJDTZOM_0U=AZ2wjGZVTPQi+U7bWGuPQ@mail.gmail.com>

???? ?

?????????? ???? ??? ?????? ?????? ????
?????????? ???????? ?? ????? ??? ?????????


On Sun, Mar 15, 2020 at 7:59 AM Madhav Deshpande via INDOLOGY <
indology at list.indology.info> wrote:

> A distraction from the Coronavirus -
>
> ??????????????? ???: ??????: ???????? ??????? ?
> ????????? ???????? ??????????????????: ??
>
> With the concern that the pronunciation of consonants often involves
> contact of organs in the vocal track, those who fear the touch of Corona
> should speak only with vowels.
>
> Madhav M. Deshpande
> Professor Emeritus, Sanskrit and Linguistics
> University of Michigan, Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA
> Senior Fellow, Oxford Center for Hindu Studies
>
> [Residence: Campbell, California, USA]
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
> committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
> unsubscribe)
>


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From mmdesh at umich.edu  Sun Mar 15 15:45:16 2020
From: mmdesh at umich.edu (Madhav Deshpande)
Date: Sun, 15 Mar 20 08:45:16 -0700
Subject: [INDOLOGY] A distraction from the Coronavirus
In-Reply-To: <CAANHO16QzwssB-qHT7nJDTZOM_0U=AZ2wjGZVTPQi+U7bWGuPQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAB3-dzc1wM7gG=9d=X5RkwbMQkLvJ9jSMhN_Wqhc+WXkifF-0w@mail.gmail.com>

???????? ????????? ?

Madhav M. Deshpande
Professor Emeritus, Sanskrit and Linguistics
University of Michigan, Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA
Senior Fellow, Oxford Center for Hindu Studies

[Residence: Campbell, California, USA]


On Sun, Mar 15, 2020 at 8:38 AM Andrew Ollett <andrew.ollett at gmail.com>
wrote:

> ???? ?
>
> ?????????? ???? ??? ?????? ?????? ????
> ?????????? ???????? ?? ????? ??? ?????????
>
>
> On Sun, Mar 15, 2020 at 7:59 AM Madhav Deshpande via INDOLOGY <
> indology at list.indology.info> wrote:
>
>> A distraction from the Coronavirus -
>>
>> ??????????????? ???: ??????: ???????? ??????? ?
>> ????????? ???????? ??????????????????: ??
>>
>> With the concern that the pronunciation of consonants often involves
>> contact of organs in the vocal track, those who fear the touch of Corona
>> should speak only with vowels.
>>
>> Madhav M. Deshpande
>> Professor Emeritus, Sanskrit and Linguistics
>> University of Michigan, Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA
>> Senior Fellow, Oxford Center for Hindu Studies
>>
>> [Residence: Campbell, California, USA]
>> _______________________________________________
>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
>> committee)
>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
>> unsubscribe)
>>
>


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From mmdesh at umich.edu  Mon Mar 16 13:20:14 2020
From: mmdesh at umich.edu (Madhav Deshpande)
Date: Mon, 16 Mar 20 06:20:14 -0700
Subject: [INDOLOGY] A distraction from Coronavirus
Message-ID: <CAB3-dzcLAf_2c7M-ZXxf1ihBH2p4hUHF=XOYYmr+UHfts1f1Cw@mail.gmail.com>

A distraction from Coronavirus -

?????? ??????? ?????? ?? ????????? ???????? ?
???????????? ???????? ???????? ??? ???? ??

My tongue does not touch the mouth, nor do the lips touch each other.
Should I just sit with an open mouth saying only ?O O O O O??

Madhav M. Deshpande
Professor Emeritus, Sanskrit and Linguistics
University of Michigan, Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA
Senior Fellow, Oxford Center for Hindu Studies

[Residence: Campbell, California, USA]


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From wujastyk at gmail.com  Mon Mar 16 15:33:44 2020
From: wujastyk at gmail.com (Dominik Wujastyk)
Date: Mon, 16 Mar 20 21:03:44 +0530
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Greetings and good wishes from the INDOLOGY Committee
Message-ID: <CAKdt-CdjcAbhT8_JKHj5Aof4DNdAuHDViZ9T1XUjeR=M7z-Log@mail.gmail.com>

Dear INDOLOGY members, this is a difficult and disruptive time for all of
us.  The members of the INDOLOGY committee send you our good wishes for
strength and courage during the coming weeks and months, as we all find
ways of adapting to the new demands of our situations.

Wishing you happiness and health,

? ????? ?????? ??????
????? ????? ???????? ?
????? ??????? ????????
?? ???????????????????? ?
? ??????? ??????? ??????? ?

Adheesh Sathaye,
Dominik Wujastyk,Philipp Maas, Stefan Baums,Wendy J. Phillips-Rodr?guez


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From wujastyk at gmail.com  Tue Mar 17 05:57:12 2020
From: wujastyk at gmail.com (Dominik Wujastyk)
Date: Tue, 17 Mar 20 11:27:12 +0530
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Fwd: Auto-discard notification
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2002.1584373422.8266.indology_list.indology.info@list.indology.info>
Message-ID: <CAKdt-Ceh-=BgjR=Jhw=vAzw9-Vs0BZbf4HVGLZhvWWNHJ9kYaQ@mail.gmail.com>

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: shankara <shankara_2000 at yahoo.com>
To: bvparishat at googlegroups.com, indology at list.indology.info
Cc:
Bcc:
Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2020 15:42:54 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Re: {???????????????????} Request for lexica - 4
Namaste,

6. ?????????? ?????? ?????? has been edited by Dr. Wakankar in 'Literary
Gems from Sanskrit Literature, A Study of Rare Manuscripts', page 127
onwards.
https://www.exoticindiaart.com/book/details/literary-gems-from-sanskrit-literature-study-of-rare-manuscripts-NAI431/

regards
shankara


On Sunday, 15 March, 2020, 8:55:47 am IST, 'shankara' via
??????????????????? <bvparishat at googlegroups.com> wrote:


Dhaval ji,

8. ??????????????????? ?????????/?????? was published in Annals of BORi in
1964. Link is given below.
https://www.jstor.org/stable/41682443?seq=1

regards
shankara


On Saturday, 14 March, 2020, 9:03:06 pm IST, Dhaval Patel <
drdhaval2785 at gmail.com> wrote:


Respected Scholars,
The following lexica have been mentioned in Vogel.
If any one of you can help me locate some of these works, I would be
obliged.
I understand that some of these may be just manuscripts, never printed.
But I have not been conclusively able to rule out their publication, nor
have been able to access them.

1. ???????? ??????? (Poona,S. A. Khandekar, 1945, 234 pp.)
2. ????????? ?????????????
3. ?????????????? ??????? ???????
4. ?????????????? ??????????
5. ??????????????? ?????
6. ?????????? ?????? ??????
7. ????????????? ??????? ???????
8. ??????????????????? ?????????/??????
9. ??n???????? ????????
10. ????????? ??????
11. ??????????????? ???????
12. ???? (???????????????????????) ????? ???

-- 
Dr. Dhaval Patel, I.A.S
Collector and District Magistrate, Surat
www.sanskritworld.in

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
"???????????????????" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
email to bvparishat+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bvparishat/CADSGPzUrOd1h2GHeXTSrfgGmHdkTR1xEPcfvZpnhfz-OthndQg%40mail.gmail.com
<https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bvparishat/CADSGPzUrOd1h2GHeXTSrfgGmHdkTR1xEPcfvZpnhfz-OthndQg%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>
.

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
"???????????????????" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
email to bvparishat+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bvparishat/1742923464.677166.1584242737348%40mail.yahoo.com
<https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bvparishat/1742923464.677166.1584242737348%40mail.yahoo.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>
.


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From John.Brockington at btinternet.com  Tue Mar 17 09:16:55 2020
From: John.Brockington at btinternet.com (John Brockington)
Date: Tue, 17 Mar 20 09:16:55 +0000
Subject: =?utf-8?Q?[INDOLOGY]_our_R=C4=81m=C4=81ya=E1=B9=87a_material_on_the_Oxford_Research_Archive?=
Message-ID: <dad3a088-f0e6-ee8e-8081-21d0829fde22@btinternet.com>

DearColleagues,

We are pleased to announce the fourth update of our material on the 
Oxford Research Archive, first deposited in January 2016; this update is 
identified as March 2020. We do so in order that it can be available for 
others to consult even in its present, unfinished state.It can be 
accessed at the same location 
<http://ora.ox.ac.uk/objects/uuid:8df9647a-8002-45ff-b37e-7effb669768b> 
or you can find it via the Bodleian Libraries website, under ORA, by 
looking for either our surname or its title, "Development and spread of 
the R?ma narrative (pre-modern)".

There are additions, revisions and corrections to the material 
throughout.However, areas which have seen the greatest degree of 
updating or enlargement are:

ofurther re-organisation of folders (and ordering of them by letter): 
introducing a new Preliminaries folder, containing the Guidance notes 
(updated to reflect these changes), an abstract and abbreviations, and 
merging Lectures and papers (unpublished) and Notes towards publications 
within Ancillary material into a new Publications and lectures folder,

oinclusion within this new Publications and lectures folder of a number 
of our older or less accessible published articles (in folders labelled 
JLB publications and MB publications), addition of a further unpublished 
paper by MB in the Lectures and papers (unpublished) document, and 
transferring into this new folder the updated list of our publications 
formerly placed in the Bibliographic inventory folder,

ofurther revision and correction in all areas of Narrative Elements and 
additional material particularly in categories 7. (Instructional texts), 
8. (vernacular N Indian) and 9. (vernacular S Indian)

oadditions to the data within 10. visual (India) in particular within 
the Bibliographic inventories,

oinclusion in the Further Notes (visual) document of a long list of 
sculptural representations of the R?ma story organised by episode.

If you are aware of colleagues in other fields (for example Southeast 
Asian languages or visual culture) who might be interested, do please 
pass the information on to them ? and similarly, if any of you have 
access to suitable academic lists on which it could be posted, we would 
be grateful if you would send it to them.

As usual, we should be grateful for any comments from anyone who has 
used the material.

With all good wishes

John and Mary

John Brockington

Fellow, Oxford Centre for Hindu Studies
Emeritus Professor of Sanskrit, University of Edinburgh
Vice President, International Association of Sanskrit Studies

Mary Brockington
Fellow, Oxford Centre for Hindu Studies
Research Fellow, International Association of Sanskrit Studies



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From mmdesh at umich.edu  Tue Mar 17 14:03:45 2020
From: mmdesh at umich.edu (Madhav Deshpande)
Date: Tue, 17 Mar 20 07:03:45 -0700
Subject: [INDOLOGY] A distraction from the Coronavirus
Message-ID: <CAB3-dzeoo5nbQk_k3_R__9Js5KkEq715EUojnhCXxGJdHesL7Q@mail.gmail.com>

A distraction from the Coronavirus -

??????????? ?? ????: ?????????: ???????? ?
????????? ? ??? ????? ??????????????: ??

When the gods arrive for Damayanti's ceremony of choosing the groom, scared
of the Coronavirus they stand above the ground without touching it.

Madhav M. Deshpande
Professor Emeritus, Sanskrit and Linguistics
University of Michigan, Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA
Senior Fellow, Oxford Center for Hindu Studies

[Residence: Campbell, California, USA]


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From McComas.Taylor at anu.edu.au  Tue Mar 17 22:31:20 2020
From: McComas.Taylor at anu.edu.au (McComas Taylor)
Date: Tue, 17 Mar 20 22:31:20 +0000
Subject: [INDOLOGY] World Sanskrit Conference 2021:  Deadline for Abstracts, 31 March 2020
Message-ID: <SY4P282MB127681ACEE99EFAC332E6D96AEF60@SY4P282MB1276.AUSP282.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>

Dear Colleagues



On behalf of the WSC2021 Organising Committee, I would like to thank all those scholars who have already submitted abstracts, even amid this time of great uncertainty.



The deadline for the submission of abstracts is less than two weeks away: Tuesday 31 March.  If you have not yet submitted your abstract for either our regular sections or special panels, we actively encourage you to do so as soon as possible.



While our conference is still ten months away, we recognise a number of conferences have been cancelled or postponed due to the COVID-19 situation and some organisations have restricted travel. We will continue to monitor the situation and observe any directives from medical authorities or national governments, but at this stage, we fully intend that the WSC will go ahead as planned, 18-22 January 2021.



We have, however, modified our cancellation policy so that anyone forced to cancel due to illness or imposition of a travel ban will be fully refunded.



With best wishes,



McComas Taylor



[cid:d60a19c5-39c0-4acc-9cc9-ba3f3b264465]
McComas Taylor
Associate Professor
Reader in Sanskrit
College of Asia and the Pacific
The Australian National University
WSC Website<http://www.wsc2021.com.au>| McC Website<https://sites.google.com/site/mccomasanu/>
Tel: +61 2 6125 3179


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From alastair_gornall at sutd.edu.sg  Wed Mar 18 05:02:26 2020
From: alastair_gornall at sutd.edu.sg (Alastair Gornall)
Date: Wed, 18 Mar 20 05:02:26 +0000
Subject: =?utf-8?Q?[INDOLOGY]_New_Book:_Rewriting_Buddhism:_Pali_Literature_and_Monastic_Reform_in_Sri_Lanka,_1157=E2=80=931270?=
Message-ID: <8B3A05CA-B1EF-48BA-8ED8-0D59EBBB98AC@sutd.edu.sg>

Dear colleagues,
I am pleased to announce the publication of the following book:
 Alastair Gornall, Rewriting Buddhism: Pali Literature and Monastic Reform in Sri Lanka, 1157?1270. London: UCL Press, 2020.
 As an Open Access publication, it is freely available to download from the following website:
https://www.uclpress.co.uk/collections/contact-103735/products/123314
Please do share the link with anyone who may be interested.
Best wishes (and apologies for cross-posting),
Alastair Gornall
Singapore

This email may contain confidential and/or proprietary information that is exempt from disclosure under applicable law and is intended for receipt and use solely by the addressee(s) named above. If you are not the intended recipient, you are notified that any use, dissemination, distribution, or copying of this email, or any attachment, is strictly prohibited. Please delete the email immediately and inform the sender. Thank You


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From mmdesh at umich.edu  Wed Mar 18 13:36:14 2020
From: mmdesh at umich.edu (Madhav Deshpande)
Date: Wed, 18 Mar 20 06:36:14 -0700
Subject: [INDOLOGY] A distraction from the Coronavirus
Message-ID: <CAB3-dzfVRCAjEnjSO28CEzFRnc3R4a2ENRMR_0ryK_NVn2oZrQ@mail.gmail.com>

A distraction from the Coronavirus

???????? ???????? ????? ???? ?????????? ?
? ????? ?? ????? ?????????????????? ??

At the ceremony of choosing the groom, the distressed princess is waiting
for grooms, but no one shows up due to worries over the Coronavirus.

Madhav M. Deshpande
Professor Emeritus, Sanskrit and Linguistics
University of Michigan, Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA
Senior Fellow, Oxford Center for Hindu Studies

[Residence: Campbell, California, USA]


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From dmellins at gmail.com  Wed Mar 18 13:48:00 2020
From: dmellins at gmail.com (David Mellins)
Date: Wed, 18 Mar 20 09:48:00 -0400
Subject: [INDOLOGY] A distraction from the Coronavirus
In-Reply-To: <CAB3-dzfVRCAjEnjSO28CEzFRnc3R4a2ENRMR_0ryK_NVn2oZrQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <379D6B9F-77B8-40EF-BEE6-156982CEF9C5@gmail.com>

> ?????????????????? rolls off the tongue like a fine chablis! Nabokov and maybe even Bana would be proud...Thanks Madhav!

Sent from my iPhone

> On Mar 18, 2020, at 9:37 AM, Madhav Deshpande via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info> wrote:
> 
> ?
> A distraction from the Coronavirus
> 
> ???????? ???????? ????? ???? ?????????? ?
> ? ????? ?? ????? ?????????????????? ??
> 
> At the ceremony of choosing the groom, the distressed princess is waiting for grooms, but no one shows up due to worries over the Coronavirus.
> 
> Madhav M. Deshpande
> Professor Emeritus, Sanskrit and Linguistics
> University of Michigan, Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA
> Senior Fellow, Oxford Center for Hindu Studies
> 
> [Residence: Campbell, California, USA]
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe)


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From mmdesh at umich.edu  Wed Mar 18 14:04:24 2020
From: mmdesh at umich.edu (Madhav Deshpande)
Date: Wed, 18 Mar 20 07:04:24 -0700
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Fwd:  A distraction from the Coronavirus
In-Reply-To: <CAB3-dzeVG48ajUG99TtrjUr=ihzi8MZDu0L4tVoR7cmaeumVmQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAB3-dzf5TCaEzqKSnkkExxjetJ9DnHpZaKUc7QKNcabbUSveQg@mail.gmail.com>

Thanks, David.  Being completely locked up in our California home, writing
Sanskrit poetry is a great joy and relief.  Glad you like it.

Madhav M. Deshpande
Professor Emeritus, Sanskrit and Linguistics
University of Michigan, Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA
Senior Fellow, Oxford Center for Hindu Studies

[Residence: Campbell, California, USA]


On Wed, Mar 18, 2020 at 6:48 AM David Mellins <dmellins at gmail.com> wrote:

> ?????????????????? rolls off the tongue like a fine chablis! Nabokov and
> maybe even Bana would be proud...Thanks Madhav!
>
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Mar 18, 2020, at 9:37 AM, Madhav Deshpande via INDOLOGY <
> indology at list.indology.info> wrote:
>
> ?
> A distraction from the Coronavirus
>
> ???????? ???????? ????? ???? ?????????? ?
> ? ????? ?? ????? ?????????????????? ??
>
> At the ceremony of choosing the groom, the distressed princess is waiting
> for grooms, but no one shows up due to worries over the Coronavirus.
>
> Madhav M. Deshpande
> Professor Emeritus, Sanskrit and Linguistics
> University of Michigan, Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA
> Senior Fellow, Oxford Center for Hindu Studies
>
> [Residence: Campbell, California, USA]
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
> committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
> unsubscribe)
>
>


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From walter.slaje at gmail.com  Wed Mar 18 16:07:58 2020
From: walter.slaje at gmail.com (Walter Slaje)
Date: Wed, 18 Mar 20 17:07:58 +0100
Subject: [INDOLOGY] The Buddhist Indus Script and Scriptures [Publication Announcement]
Message-ID: <CALoZ1nV11zN9Mzjhrk0z_Tq2da094jSL-ZYwergR_XWyfHaXJA@mail.gmail.com>

Dear Colleagues,



I should like to draw your attention to a new publication in the field of
Buddhist studies:



*Dragomir Dimitrov, The Buddhist Indus Script and Scriptures.*

On the so-called Bhaik?uk? or Saindhav? Script of the S??mit?yas and their
Canon.

[Ver?ffentlichungen der Indologischen Kommission der Akademie der
Wissenschaften und der Literatur, Mainz. 7]. Wiesbaden: Harrassowitz
Publishers 2020. XVII, 256 pages, 10 ill., 1 map, 5 tables. 68,00 Eur.
ISBN: 978-3-447-11385-4



https://www.harrassowitz-verlag.de/The_Buddhist_Indus_Script_and_Scriptures/titel_6512.ahtml



The Buddhist Indus script (*Sindhulipi* or *Saindhav?*) refers to an Indian
script with ?arrow-headed? characters which the British Indologist Cecil
Bendall (1856?1906) noticed for the first time in a twelfth-century
manuscript, and which later scholars tentatively called ?Bhaik?uk??. With
the help of some Tibetan sources it is actually possible not only to
establish its original name, i.e. ?Saindhav??, but also to prove a direct
connection between this script and the Saindhava monks or the S??mit?yas.
Despite the importance of this Buddhist school, until recently its original
canonical literature was considered to have been lost.


Dragomir Dimitrov presents now information about the unexpected discovery
of several Indian manuscripts written in Saindhav? script and offers a new
analysis of the Old Bengali *codex unicus* of the so-called Patna
*Dharmapada*, which should rather be known now as the Saindhav? *Dharmapada*.
This study proves that in fact a number of original canonical texts of the
S??mit?yas and some of their post-canonical works have survived. The texts
are written in a Middle Indian language which it is suggested here to call
?Saindhav??. The better understanding of the close link between the
S??mit?yas/Saindhavas, the Saindhav? language, and the Saindhav? script
permits to fill some glaring gaps in Buddhist studies and Indian
linguistics.




For all titles published in this series, see:

https://www.harrassowitz-verlag.de/reihenwerk_455.ahtml





Kindly regarding,

Walter Slaje


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From johanna.buss at googlemail.com  Wed Mar 18 16:40:29 2020
From: johanna.buss at googlemail.com (Johanna Buss)
Date: Wed, 18 Mar 20 17:40:29 +0100
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Position as W3 Professor in Indology at the University of Leipzig
Message-ID: <CAPJnKS9gM-P+3eSCi93SUnrLK1qGSdgJBeVdLf1CS8XodKGiuA@mail.gmail.com>

 Dear list members,

The Faculty of History, Arts and Oriental Studies of Leipzig university now
invites applications for a position as W3-Professor of Indology.
For further information please see:
https://www.uni-leipzig.de/en/university/working-at-leipzig-university/job-opportunities/

Best wishes,
Johanna Bu?


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From johanna.buss at googlemail.com  Wed Mar 18 17:29:35 2020
From: johanna.buss at googlemail.com (Johanna Buss)
Date: Wed, 18 Mar 20 18:29:35 +0100
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Position as W3 Professor in Indology at the University of Leipzig
Message-ID: <CAPJnKS-XUMseF551__DFDPC99EO8Vu-xEXKrk70zhPd0aZaD_w@mail.gmail.com>

 Dear list members,

The Institute of South and Central Asian Studies at the Faculty of History,
Arts and Oriental Studies seeks to fill the following professorship from *1
April 2021*:
*W3-Professorship in Indology*

(Successor to Professor Eliahu Franco)

The successful candidate is required to prove his/her outstanding
achievements in the field of Indology, with a specific focus on Buddhist
studies and/or religious studies. Demonstrated profound knowledge of
Sanskrit is a prerequisite, of Pali a desired addition. A background in the
field of digital humanities will be considered an advantage. The successful
candidate?s publications, teaching activities, and extensive experience in
the acquisition of research funding should demonstrate a proven ability for
interdisciplinary cooperation and thematic connections with the research
focus area Multiple Secularities <https://www.multiple-secularities.de/>.
In-depth knowledge of innovative theories and methods at the interface of
philology and area studies is essential. Applicants are asked to include a
concise statement regarding their vision for the potential development of
this field of research at Leipzig University (one page).

Furthermore, the successful candidate will be expected to actively assist
in shaping new interdisciplinary curricula in area studies in the relevant
BA and MA programmes at Leipzig University. Applications should include
statements on previous teaching experience, general teaching ideas, and,
should they be available, teaching evaluations.

The job holder?s rights and obligations are regulated by the Saxon Freedom
of Higher Education Act (S?chsHSFG) and the Saxon Service Regulations for
Higher Education Institutions (DAVOHS). Applicants must meet the
requirements of Section 58 S?chsHSFG.

Leipzig University is committed to gender equality. Severely disabled
persons are encouraged to apply and will be given preference in the case of
equal suitability.

Please send your application with the usual documents (including a detailed
CV, a list of publications and classes taught, teaching statement,
available teaching evaluations, and a certified copy of the highest
academic degree acquired), in a printed or digital format (as a single PDF
document), to:

Leipzig University
Dean of the Faculty of History, Arts and Oriental Studies
Professor Rose Marie Beck
Schillerstra?e 6
04109 Leipzig
Germany

by no later than* 1 May 2020.*

Please note that it is not possible to guarantee confidentiality and rule
out unauthorised access by third parties when communicating via unencrypted
email. Information about data protection in connection with the processing
of personal data as required under the EU General Data Protection
Regulation (GDPR)
Applicants are hereby informed about the processing of their personal data.

For further information please see:
https://www.uni-leipzig.de/en/university/working-at-leipzig-university/job-opportunities/

Best wishes,
Johanna Bu?


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From mailmealakendudas at rediffmail.com  Thu Mar 19 08:31:27 2020
From: mailmealakendudas at rediffmail.com (alakendu das)
Date: Thu, 19 Mar 20 08:31:27 +0000
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Nyay philosophy
Message-ID: <20200319083127.402.qmail@f4mail-235-196.rediffmail.com>

Respected Scholars,I am a bit confused about a name.Is it Akhshapada Gautam or Akshpada Gotom who compiled Nyay philosophy? Can anybody help me on this regard?Alakendu Das.



Sent from RediffmailNG on Android


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From mailmealakendudas at rediffmail.com  Thu Mar 19 08:36:52 2020
From: mailmealakendudas at rediffmail.com (alakendu das)
Date: Thu, 19 Mar 20 08:36:52 +0000
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Nyay philosophy.
Message-ID: <20200319083652.8831.qmail@f4mail-235-117.rediffmail.com>

Respected Scholars,I am a bit confused over a name.Is it Akhshapada Gautam or Akshpada Gotam who compiled Nyay philosophy?Can anyone kindly elaborate on this issue.Alakendu Das.



Sent from RediffmailNG on Android


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From arjunsr1987 at gmail.com  Thu Mar 19 09:27:26 2020
From: arjunsr1987 at gmail.com (Arjuna S R)
Date: Thu, 19 Mar 20 14:57:26 +0530
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Nyay philosophy
In-Reply-To: <20200319083127.402.qmail@f4mail-235-196.rediffmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAOy-tFSZMvOnkPGK6zw8qnGOpJu6Sh=LOpK0xJ=rr+tB=RrrhQ@mail.gmail.com>

Dear Dr Das,

As per my understanding, it is Akshapada/Gautama (Ak?ap?da/Gautama in
IAST, ???????/????
in Devanagari) from 1st/2nd century CE, who wrote the Nyaya-sutras and
considered as the founder of the Nyaya school of Philosophy. Even I have
heard the traditional scholars uses the name Gautama.

Many eminent scholars like Karl H Potter
<https://books.google.co.in/books?id=Bo0FeYVcOmUC&printsec=frontcover&source=gbs_ge_summary_r&cad=0#v=onepage&q&f=false>,
BK Matilal
<https://books.google.co.in/books?id=V8SLH7ogB9oC&printsec=frontcover&dq=inauthor:%22Bimal+Krishna+Matilal%22&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjGrtXVlaboAhVnzjgGHd7UCXgQ6AEIMTAB#v=onepage&q&f=false>
and JN Mohanty
<https://www.britannica.com/topic/Indian-philosophy/The-logical-period#ref238718>
and
others used *Gautama* in their respective texts. I have seen Satish Chandra
Vidyabhushana
<https://archive.org/stream/NyayaSutra/nyaya_sutras_of_gautama#page/n1/mode/2up>
using the name '*Gotama*' in one of his texts.

Hope this clarifies the confusion.
Thank you.

Regards,
Arjuna


*Dr Arjuna S R*
*Assistant Professor*
*Department of Philosophy*
*Fifth Floor, Advanced Research Centre*

*Manipal Academy of Higher Education (MAHE)*
*Madhav Nagar, Manipal 576104*

*Contact: +91-8106783000*

On Thu, 19 Mar 2020 at 14:02, alakendu das via INDOLOGY <
indology at list.indology.info> wrote:

> Respected Scholars,
I am a bit confused about a name.Is it Akhshapada Gautam or Akshpada Gotom
who compiled Nyay philosophy? Can anybody help me on this regard?
Alakendu Das.



Sent from RediffmailNG on Android

>
_______________________________________________

> INDOLOGY mailing list

> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info

> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
committee)
http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
unsubscribe)


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From mmdesh at umich.edu  Thu Mar 19 13:43:02 2020
From: mmdesh at umich.edu (Madhav Deshpande)
Date: Thu, 19 Mar 20 06:43:02 -0700
Subject: [INDOLOGY] A distraction from Coronavirus
Message-ID: <CAB3-dzefdq+fs7kaRLriR_qbVwAeEEnTDpwaw3DbRyA5bTcQng@mail.gmail.com>

A distraction from Coronavirus

???? ???? ??? ???????? ???: ????? ???????: ?
???????? ??????? ????? ????? ??? ??

Climbing into their own chariots, all [potential] grooms fled away. Only
the bride remained. Now who can she choose with her garland?

Madhav M. Deshpande
Professor Emeritus, Sanskrit and Linguistics
University of Michigan, Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA
Senior Fellow, Oxford Center for Hindu Studies

[Residence: Campbell, California, USA]


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From mmdesh at umich.edu  Fri Mar 20 13:40:06 2020
From: mmdesh at umich.edu (Madhav Deshpande)
Date: Fri, 20 Mar 20 06:40:06 -0700
Subject: [INDOLOGY] A distraction from the Coronavirus
Message-ID: <CAB3-dzf-3EMsQ=EjbxdonEGeDnvZasJgia4NZFeFHBmbXRj9QA@mail.gmail.com>

A distraction from the Coronavirus

???????? ?????? ???? ???? ???? ?
??????????????? ????? ?????????? ???? ?????? ??

At the ceremony of choosing a husband, the bride said: "How can I choose
anyone, when the fear of touch is encircling the whole world?"

Madhav M. Deshpande
Professor Emeritus, Sanskrit and Linguistics
University of Michigan, Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA
Senior Fellow, Oxford Center for Hindu Studies

[Residence: Campbell, California, USA]


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From mkapstei at uchicago.edu  Fri Mar 20 14:00:43 2020
From: mkapstei at uchicago.edu (Matthew Kapstein)
Date: Fri, 20 Mar 20 14:00:43 +0000
Subject: [INDOLOGY] A distraction from the Coronavirus
In-Reply-To: <CAB3-dzf-3EMsQ=EjbxdonEGeDnvZasJgia4NZFeFHBmbXRj9QA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <DM6PR11MB40598BC192ECAAF9F60B6866A1F50@DM6PR11MB4059.namprd11.prod.outlook.com>

???? ???? ??: ?????:, ????

Matthew

Get Outlook for iOS<https://aka.ms/o0ukef>
________________________________
From: INDOLOGY <indology-bounces at list.indology.info> on behalf of Madhav Deshpande via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info>
Sent: Friday, March 20, 2020 2:40:06 PM
To: Indology <indology at list.indology.info>
Subject: [INDOLOGY] A distraction from the Coronavirus

A distraction from the Coronavirus

???????? ?????? ???? ???? ???? ?
??????????????? ????? ?????????? ???? ?????? ??

At the ceremony of choosing a husband, the bride said: "How can I choose anyone, when the fear of touch is encircling the whole world?"

Madhav M. Deshpande
Professor Emeritus, Sanskrit and Linguistics
University of Michigan, Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA
Senior Fellow, Oxford Center for Hindu Studies

[Residence: Campbell, California, USA]


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From rhododaktylos at gmail.com  Fri Mar 20 14:23:16 2020
From: rhododaktylos at gmail.com (Antonia Ruppel)
Date: Fri, 20 Mar 20 14:23:16 +0000
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Sanskrit in Times of Corona
Message-ID: <CAEjEOsD-XTgMDqaA+DpsCNf+mE07VT_QTxV75QiN=HuLMQ9dOQ@mail.gmail.com>

Dear all,

Madhav's verses about svaya?varas make me think what a hard time Nala would
have at one of these right now, given he is ????*??????*.

One question I would like to put to the list: what literary
stories/anecdotes/dicta do we have about either the salutary aspects of
learning or knowing Sanskrit, or about the negatives that will befall us if
we do not know Sanskrit?

And one offer: I have a booklet (about 50 pages A4) that I made for British
Year7 students (= around 10-11 years old) beginning to learn Sanskrit. It
has lots of pictures and riddles and teaches you some very simple vocab and
grammar, as well as some devan?gar?. The pdf is just under 5MB in size.

Given that many of you likely have children who are about to stay home from
school, or are doing so already, I thought I'd mention it on here even
though it isn't anything scholarly as such. If you think your or your
friends' children might be interested, please email me and I'll send you
the file.

All the best,
     Antonia


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From wujastyk at gmail.com  Fri Mar 20 17:42:22 2020
From: wujastyk at gmail.com (Dominik Wujastyk)
Date: Fri, 20 Mar 20 11:42:22 -0600
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Fwd: Auto-discard notification
In-Reply-To: <mailman.738.1584713358.9146.indology_list.indology.info@list.indology.info>
Message-ID: <CAKdt-CefHNy_Q-HygE7q16dpwetrcVPOdqsT6V_kSmGt=hQ1wQ@mail.gmail.com>

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: John Lowe <john.lowe at orinst.ox.ac.uk>
To: indology <indology at list.indology.info>
Cc:
Bcc:
Date: Fri, 20 Mar 2020 14:08:35 +0000
Subject: Departmental Lecturer in Sanskrit at University of Oxford
Dear all,

The Faculty of Oriental Studies at Oxford is now advertising for a
Departmental Lecturer in Sanskrit to cover a period of research leave. The
role is a fixed-term position for a period of 5 years from 1 September 2020
to 31 August 2025. For more information please see here:
https://my.corehr.com/pls/uoxrecruit/erq_jobspec_version_4.jobspec?p_id=145962


Best wishes,
John


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From bgalasek at googlemail.com  Fri Mar 20 18:00:09 2020
From: bgalasek at googlemail.com (Bruno Galasek-Hul)
Date: Fri, 20 Mar 20 11:00:09 -0700
Subject: [INDOLOGY] request for article
Message-ID: <C5C193DF-D3A7-4E04-9F92-727AB74F494C@googlemail.com>

Esteemed scholars, 

For a project I?m in need of the following article by the late Prof. Hahn: 

Michael Hahn. ?K?emendra?s Garbh?vakr?ntyavad?na (Sanskrittexte aus dem tibetischen Tanjur II)," Journal of the European Ayurvedic Society 5 (1997): 82-112. 

Due to the present circumstances I do not have physical access to a university library, and my internet research did not lead me to an electronic version of this discontinued journal. I would be grateful if someone was able to share a PDF copy of this article with me.

Many thanks! 

Bruno     


Bruno Galasek-Hul, Ph.D.
Cell: +1-203-507-0080
E-mail: bgalasek at pm.me
https://independent.academia.edu/BrunoGalasekHul
http://84000.co/about/translators/
https://mangalamresearch.shinyapps.io/VisualDictionaryOfBuddhistSanskrit/




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From bgalasek at googlemail.com  Fri Mar 20 19:12:19 2020
From: bgalasek at googlemail.com (Bruno Galasek-Hul)
Date: Fri, 20 Mar 20 12:12:19 -0700
Subject: [INDOLOGY] request for article
In-Reply-To: <C5C193DF-D3A7-4E04-9F92-727AB74F494C@googlemail.com>
Message-ID: <E9737F2F-75C4-4CF6-A6A1-C770B0D2F23C@googlemail.com>

Many thanks to Professors Jonathan Silk and Roland Steiner, who both shared the article with me within minutes! Roland Steiner also alerts me to the fact that the past volumes of the Journal of the European ?yurvedic Society (JE?S) have been uploaded to the Internet Archive: https://archive.org/details/ualberta_specialprojects?and%5B%5D=european+ayurvedic&sin= <https://archive.org/details/ualberta_specialprojects?and[]=european+ayurvedic&sin=>. 
I realized once more how extraordinarily interconnected our modern world is, with both its positive and negative consequences. 

Be safe! 

Bruno 

> On Mar 20, 2020, at 11:00 AM, Bruno Galasek-Hul <bgalasek at googlemail.com> wrote:
> 
> Esteemed scholars, 
> 
> For a project I?m in need of the following article by the late Prof. Hahn: 
> 
> Michael Hahn. ?K?emendra?s Garbh?vakr?ntyavad?na (Sanskrittexte aus dem tibetischen Tanjur II)," Journal of the European Ayurvedic Society 5 (1997): 82-112. 
> 
> Due to the present circumstances I do not have physical access to a university library, and my internet research did not lead me to an electronic version of this discontinued journal. I would be grateful if someone was able to share a PDF copy of this article with me.
> 
> Many thanks! 
> 
> Bruno     
> 
> 
> Bruno Galasek-Hul, Ph.D.
> Cell: +1-203-507-0080
> E-mail: bgalasek at pm.me <mailto:bgalasek at pm.me>
> https://independent.academia.edu/BrunoGalasekHul
> http://84000.co/about/translators/
> https://mangalamresearch.shinyapps.io/VisualDictionaryOfBuddhistSanskrit/
> 
> 



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From john.lowe at orinst.ox.ac.uk  Fri Mar 20 21:57:58 2020
From: john.lowe at orinst.ox.ac.uk (John Lowe)
Date: Fri, 20 Mar 20 21:57:58 +0000
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Postdoctoral positions at the University of Oxford
Message-ID: <LO2P265MB0112F95A8E68893F75319AFBFEF50@LO2P265MB0112.GBRP265.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>

Dear all,

The Faculty of Oriental Studies at Oxford is now advertising for two five-year postdoctoral research positions, working on the Indian grammatical tradition and linguistics. For more information please see: https://my.corehr.com/pls/uoxrecruit/erq_jobspec_version_4.jobspec?p_id=145930. Deadline for applications is 20th April.

Best wishes,
John



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From john.lowe at orinst.ox.ac.uk  Fri Mar 20 21:59:23 2020
From: john.lowe at orinst.ox.ac.uk (John Lowe)
Date: Fri, 20 Mar 20 21:59:23 +0000
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Departmental Lecturer in Sanskrit
Message-ID: <LO2P265MB0112A5C909BF0D9030BFCA45FEF50@LO2P265MB0112.GBRP265.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>

Dear all,

The Faculty of Oriental Studies at Oxford is now advertising for a Departmental Lecturer in Sanskrit to cover a period of research leave. The role is a fixed-term position for a period of 5 years from 1 September 2020 to 31 August 2025. For more information please see here: https://my.corehr.com/pls/uoxrecruit/erq_jobspec_version_4.jobspec?p_id=145962

Best wishes,
John



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From alanus1216 at yahoo.com  Sat Mar 21 02:40:24 2020
From: alanus1216 at yahoo.com (Allen Thrasher)
Date: Sat, 21 Mar 20 02:40:24 +0000
Subject: [INDOLOGY] researchers interested in Sonars (as brahmans)?
In-Reply-To: <513210358.7367.1584758424578.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <513210358.7367.1584758424578@mail.yahoo.com>

I have a collection of pamphlets etc. pertaining to the claim of Sonars (goldsmiths) to be brahmans (Vishvakarma Brahmanas, Jangid Brahmanas) and to their cult of Vishvakarma as God in the same sense as Shiva and Vishnu.? I am not likely to write up anything about it and will be giving it to the Library of Congress.? It contains materials (as I recall) in Sanskrit, Hindi, Marathi, and Kannada.? If there is anyone working on this subject I would be glad to find a way to share it with them before transferring them to LOC.
Stay well,
Allen


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From mmdesh at umich.edu  Sat Mar 21 13:48:35 2020
From: mmdesh at umich.edu (Madhav Deshpande)
Date: Sat, 21 Mar 20 06:48:35 -0700
Subject: [INDOLOGY] A distraction from the Coronavirus
Message-ID: <CAB3-dzcc5Qe4d+6fdCUd9qk+WbLEJV-1B3C9WONOjhJLbh6pKA@mail.gmail.com>

A distraction from the Coronavirus

??????????????????? ??????? ?????? ??: ?
??????? ?????? ????? ?????: ????????????: ??

The worried groom in the wedding hall, scared of the touch of Corona,
quickly threw the wedding garland on the neck of the bride from far away.

Madhav M. Deshpande
Professor Emeritus, Sanskrit and Linguistics
University of Michigan, Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA
Senior Fellow, Oxford Center for Hindu Studies

[Residence: Campbell, California, USA]


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From mmdesh at umich.edu  Sun Mar 22 13:13:43 2020
From: mmdesh at umich.edu (Madhav Deshpande)
Date: Sun, 22 Mar 20 06:13:43 -0700
Subject: [INDOLOGY] A distraction from Coronavirus
Message-ID: <CAB3-dzen_ZFFGYNuMaCGSXZH=4Zo3vDQu-+n6RWhjFRp5Dy34w@mail.gmail.com>

A distraction from Coronavirus

?????? ????? ??? ?? ???? ????? ???? ?????? ?
????????????????????? ????? ?? ???????? ??

O Beautiful Lady, please stay away and do not touch me even with your
glances. We shall get together after the Coronavirus goes away.

Madhav M. Deshpande
Professor Emeritus, Sanskrit and Linguistics
University of Michigan, Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA
Senior Fellow, Oxford Center for Hindu Studies

[Residence: Campbell, California, USA]


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From mkapstei at uchicago.edu  Sun Mar 22 13:39:17 2020
From: mkapstei at uchicago.edu (Matthew Kapstein)
Date: Sun, 22 Mar 20 13:39:17 +0000
Subject: [INDOLOGY] A distraction from Coronavirus
In-Reply-To: <CAB3-dzen_ZFFGYNuMaCGSXZH=4Zo3vDQu-+n6RWhjFRp5Dy34w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <DM6PR11MB4059E6C256BFEC4173E2AE0CA1F30@DM6PR11MB4059.namprd11.prod.outlook.com>

Hope springs eternal!

Matthew Kapstein
Directeur d'?tudes, ?m?rite
Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes, Paris

Numata Visiting Professor of Buddhist Studies,
The University of Chicago
________________________________
From: INDOLOGY <indology-bounces at list.indology.info> on behalf of Madhav Deshpande via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info>
Sent: Sunday, March 22, 2020 8:13 AM
To: Indology <indology at list.indology.info>
Subject: [INDOLOGY] A distraction from Coronavirus

A distraction from Coronavirus

?????? ????? ??? ?? ???? ????? ???? ?????? ?
????????????????????? ????? ?? ???????? ??

O Beautiful Lady, please stay away and do not touch me even with your glances. We shall get together after the Coronavirus goes away.

Madhav M. Deshpande
Professor Emeritus, Sanskrit and Linguistics
University of Michigan, Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA
Senior Fellow, Oxford Center for Hindu Studies

[Residence: Campbell, California, USA]


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From rhododaktylos at gmail.com  Sun Mar 22 16:09:53 2020
From: rhododaktylos at gmail.com (Antonia Ruppel)
Date: Sun, 22 Mar 20 16:09:53 +0000
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Sanskrit reading lists?
Message-ID: <CAEjEOsAQ0x1fHpGJseSPXK0iQ7DqSDSfnkQf0+0O_Bj7v4XWcw@mail.gmail.com>

Dear list,

In Classics, PhD students in the US are often given lists of texts from a
wide range of genres that they are expected to read, mostly in the
original, over the course of their degree.

Do any such lists exist for Sanskrit? I assume the situation is rather
different given the different histories not only of the respective
languages but also of their academic study; but anything of this kind that
you might be willing to share with me would be most gratefully received.
Likewise if you do not have such a list, but have thoughts on what should
be on it!

Should there be any interest in this, I will compile what I get and post it
to the list.

The number of people studying Sanskrit in their own time is rather
wonderfully on the rise, it seems.

Many thanks, as always,
      Antonia


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From rolfheiner.koch at gmail.com  Sun Mar 22 16:14:52 2020
From: rolfheiner.koch at gmail.com (Rolf Heinrich Koch)
Date: Sun, 22 Mar 20 17:14:52 +0100
Subject: =?utf-8?Q?[INDOLOGY]_Sambul=C4=81-J=C4=81taka?=
Message-ID: <646c341c-e393-bb99-98a4-10295adfc7ef@gmail.com>

Dear Listmembers,
the Sambul?-J?taka (519) is illustrated at a monastery Sri Lanka. 
Sambul? takes care of her leprosy husband Sotthisena in the forest. A 
demon falls in love and tries to catch her but ?akra rescues her.? The 
corresponding mural depicts ?akra as a terrible being holding a club in 
his hands. The Pali J?taka provides no description of a disguised ?akra 
but in the Sinhalese Sambul?-J?taka we can read, that ?akra saves 
Sambul? in the disguise of a terrible being (.../Sakdevraja bhay?naka 
v??ayak ge?a/ ...). I suppose this is recorded in a source of the 
M?lasarv?stiv?da-Vinaya tradition, written in Sanskrit or Tibetan.
Anyone of you came across a similar version of this story, where ?akra 
saves Sambul? in a terrible disguise?

Thank you

Heiner

Rolf Heinrich Koch

-- 
www.rolfheinrichkoch.wordpress.com



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From prajnapti at gmail.com  Sun Mar 22 17:18:05 2020
From: prajnapti at gmail.com (Dan Lusthaus)
Date: Sun, 22 Mar 20 13:18:05 -0400
Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_[INDOLOGY]_Sambul=C4=81-J=C4=81taka?=
In-Reply-To: <646c341c-e393-bb99-98a4-10295adfc7ef@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <DAE1776A-2B34-4CC3-B2DE-BFAAA965E3A4@gmail.com>

While not directly concerned with this j?taka, you might find this essay by An?layo informative, esp. fn. 4.

https://web.archive.org/web/20141210113352/http://www.buddhismuskunde.uni-hamburg.de/fileadmin/pdf/analayo/SakraDestructionCraving.pdf

The trend seems to be, according to those sources, a domestication of Sakka from the fearsome Indra, slayer of the dragon V?tra in the ?g Veda, to a docile devotee of the Buddha. However, Buddhaghosa identified Sakka with Vajrap??i, the fearsome protector of the Dharma, who pummels those who threaten or bad-mouth the Dharma. So apparently even as late as Buddhaghosa?s day (ca. 5th c CE), the ?terrible? form of Indra was still resonant with how Buddhists viewed Sakka/?akra.

best,
Dan

> On Mar 22, 2020, at 12:14 PM, Rolf Heinrich Koch via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info> wrote:
> 
> Dear Listmembers,
> the Sambul?-J?taka (519) is illustrated at a monastery Sri Lanka. Sambul? takes care of her leprosy husband Sotthisena in the forest. A demon falls in love and tries to catch her but ?akra rescues her.  The corresponding mural depicts ?akra as a terrible being holding a club in his hands. The Pali J?taka provides no description of a disguised ?akra but in the Sinhalese Sambul?-J?taka we can read, that ?akra saves Sambul? in the disguise of a terrible being (...Sakdevraja bhay?naka v??ayak ge?a ...). I suppose this is recorded in a source of the M?lasarv?stiv?da-Vinaya tradition, written in Sanskrit or Tibetan. 
> Anyone of you came across a similar version of this story, where ?akra saves Sambul? in a terrible disguise?
> 
> Thank you
> 
> Heiner
> 
> Rolf Heinrich Koch
> -- 
> www.rolfheinrichkoch.wordpress.com <http://www.rolfheinrichkoch.wordpress.com/>_______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe)



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From dominik.haas at univie.ac.at  Sun Mar 22 18:19:43 2020
From: dominik.haas at univie.ac.at (Dominik Haas)
Date: Sun, 22 Mar 20 19:19:43 +0100
Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_[INDOLOGY]_Sambul=C4=81-J=C4=81taka?=
In-Reply-To: <DAE1776A-2B34-4CC3-B2DE-BFAAA965E3A4@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <93a35e84f5c4bcd339bca36b29c4eb85@univie.ac.at>

Vi?nja Grabovac gave an interesting talk connected to this topic at last
year's International Vedic Workshop: "Notes on Indra or ?akra in
Buddhist texts" 

Here's the abstract from the Programme
(http://www.iuc.hr/IucAdmin/Server/downloads/7IVWProgrammeandAbstracts.pdf):


"Indra, one of the most prominent Vedic deities, is found in Buddhist
texts as well. Commonly known as Sakka in P?li and ?akra in Sanskrit
Buddhist texts, this deity exhibits some different qualities than ones
attributed to him in Vedic or later Brahmanical texts, though there are
other features that clearly connect Indra and Buddhist Sakka/ ?akra. On
the whole, the role of Indra or ?akra in Buddhism bears witness to the
stage in the history of Hinduism in which new cults of Vi??u and ?iva
did not as yet overshadow the cult of Indra, just as is the case in the
older layers of the Sanskrit epics too, and it is still a form of the
Vedic religion that Buddhism is addressing as its counterpart. With the
focus on the mah?vastu, a work preserved in Buddhist Hybrid Sanskrit and
belonging to Lokottarav?da subsect of the mah?s??ghikas, the intention
of the paper will be to present the role of ?akra in the biographical
episodes of gautama Buddha and contained j?takas, to isolate his
epithets, and to highlight some instances which complicate the
understanding of the relationship between Indra and ?akra in the
mah?vastu." 

Best, 

D. Haas

 [2] 

__________________ 
Dominik A. Haas, BA MA 
PhD student, University of Vienna 

 dominik.haas at univie.ac.at
ORCID: 0000-0002-8505-6112 [3] 
academia.edu/DominikHaas [4] [2] 

Am 2020-03-22 18:18, schrieb Dan Lusthaus via INDOLOGY:

> While not directly concerned with this j?taka, you might find this essay by An?layo informative, esp. fn. 4. 
> 
> https://web.archive.org/web/20141210113352/http://www.buddhismuskunde.uni-hamburg.de/fileadmin/pdf/analayo/SakraDestructionCraving.pdf 
> 
> The trend seems to be, according to those sources, a domestication of Sakka from the fearsome Indra, slayer of the dragon V?tra in the ?g Veda, to a docile devotee of the Buddha. However, Buddhaghosa identified Sakka with Vajrap??i, the fearsome protector of the Dharma, who pummels those who threaten or bad-mouth the Dharma. So apparently even as late as Buddhaghosa's day (ca. 5th c CE), the 'terrible' form of Indra was still resonant with how Buddhists viewed Sakka/?akra. 
> 
> best, 
> Dan 
> 
>> On Mar 22, 2020, at 12:14 PM, Rolf Heinrich Koch via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info> wrote: 
>> 
>> Dear Listmembers,
>> the Sambul?-J?taka (519) is illustrated at a monastery Sri Lanka. Sambul? takes care of her leprosy husband Sotthisena in the forest. A demon falls in love and tries to catch her but ?akra rescues her.  The corresponding mural depicts ?akra as a terrible being holding a club in his hands. The Pali J?taka provides no description of a disguised ?akra but in the Sinhalese Sambul?-J?taka we can read, that ?akra saves Sambul? in the disguise of a terrible being (..._Sakdevraja bhay?naka v??ayak ge?a_ ...). I suppose this is recorded in a source of the M?lasarv?stiv?da-Vinaya tradition, written in Sanskrit or Tibetan. 
>> Anyone of you came across a similar version of this story, where ?akra saves Sambul? in a terrible disguise?
>> 
>> Thank you
>> 
>> Heiner 
>> 
>> Rolf Heinrich Koch
>> 
>> -- 
>> www.rolfheinrichkoch.wordpress.com [1]
>> _______________________________________________
>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee)
>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe)
> 
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe)
 

Links:
------
[1] http://www.rolfheinrichkoch.wordpress.com/
[2] http://www.facebook.com/ub.wien/
[3] https://orcid.org/0000-0002-8505-6112
[4] https://univie.academia.edu/DominikHaas


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From mailmealakendudas at rediffmail.com  Sun Mar 22 18:35:59 2020
From: mailmealakendudas at rediffmail.com (alakendu das)
Date: Sun, 22 Mar 20 18:35:59 +0000
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Nyay Philosophy
Message-ID: <20200322183559.24900.qmail@f4mail-235-139.rediffmail.com>

Thanks everybody for elucidating on the correctness of Gautama or Gotam, as the compiler of Nyay philosophy.However, a difference of approach do exist as far as Gautama or Gotama is concerned.The difference lies in two primary sources.Skanda Purana makes it clear that sage Gautama , Ahalya's husband, came to be known as Akhshapada.Whereas, While we turn our attention to The Adiparva of Epic Mahabharata( Chapter 104)&nbsp; the progeny of Utathya and Mamata lost his vision at birth, and came to be&nbsp; known as Dirghatama( "Tama" means darkness, and" Dirgha "implies, something prolonged)This Dirgha subsequently came to known as Gotama.( which means one with superior reverred vision).The epic further states that Gotama made his eyes (Akshi) bloom on his feet( Pada) and came to be known as Akhshapada.( Ref- Anushashana Parva, 33/11)Of course, this is only one&nbsp; of many other views .There may be variants.&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;Alakendu Das.



Sent from RediffmailNG on Android


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From mmdesh at umich.edu  Sun Mar 22 20:01:09 2020
From: mmdesh at umich.edu (Madhav Deshpande)
Date: Sun, 22 Mar 20 13:01:09 -0700
Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_[INDOLOGY]_Sambul=C4=81-J=C4=81taka?=
In-Reply-To: <646c341c-e393-bb99-98a4-10295adfc7ef@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAB3-dzfwZVTpQLAG4vJFT1mPUF3jFYkzGOXr0RB245MD0EL8TQ@mail.gmail.com>

In the R?gveda, there is an account of Indra cleansing Ap?l? from a skin
disease.  For a discussion of this, see:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3827509/

Madhav M. Deshpande
Professor Emeritus, Sanskrit and Linguistics
University of Michigan, Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA
Senior Fellow, Oxford Center for Hindu Studies

[Residence: Campbell, California, USA]


On Sun, Mar 22, 2020 at 9:15 AM Rolf Heinrich Koch via INDOLOGY <
indology at list.indology.info> wrote:

> Dear Listmembers,
> the Sambul?-J?taka (519) is illustrated at a monastery Sri Lanka. Sambul?
> takes care of her leprosy husband Sotthisena in the forest. A demon falls
> in love and tries to catch her but ?akra rescues her.  The corresponding
> mural depicts ?akra as a terrible being holding a club in his hands. The
> Pali J?taka provides no description of a disguised ?akra but in the
> Sinhalese Sambul?-J?taka we can read, that ?akra saves Sambul? in the
> disguise of a terrible being (...*Sakdevraja bhay?naka v??ayak ge?a*
> ...). I suppose this is recorded in a source of the M?lasarv?stiv?da-Vinaya
> tradition, written in Sanskrit or Tibetan.
> Anyone of you came across a similar version of this story, where ?akra
> saves Sambul? in a terrible disguise?
>
> Thank you
>
> Heiner
>
> Rolf Heinrich Koch
>
> -- www.rolfheinrichkoch.wordpress.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
> committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
> unsubscribe)
>


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From rolfheiner.koch at gmail.com  Sun Mar 22 20:10:36 2020
From: rolfheiner.koch at gmail.com (Rolf Heinrich Koch)
Date: Sun, 22 Mar 20 21:10:36 +0100
Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_[INDOLOGY]_Sambul=C4=81-J=C4=81taka?=
In-Reply-To: <CAB3-dzfwZVTpQLAG4vJFT1mPUF3jFYkzGOXr0RB245MD0EL8TQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <a939ef53-0e26-7bb6-a41f-47a7019df42e@gmail.com>

Thank you all for the suggestions.

I am searching for a parallel or similar version of the Sambul?-J?taka 
in northern Buddhist scriptures (or in Jaina-resources) where ?akra 
appears as a terrible being.

Heiner


Am 22.03.2020 um 21:01 schrieb Madhav Deshpande:
> In the R?gveda, there is an account of Indra cleansing Ap?l? from a 
> skin disease.? For a discussion of this, see: 
> https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3827509/
>
> Madhav M. Deshpande
> Professor Emeritus, Sanskrit and Linguistics
> University of Michigan, Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA
> Senior Fellow, Oxford Center for Hindu Studies
>
> [Residence: Campbell, California, USA]
>
>
> On Sun, Mar 22, 2020 at 9:15 AM Rolf Heinrich Koch via INDOLOGY 
> <indology at list.indology.info <mailto:indology at list.indology.info>> wrote:
>
>     Dear Listmembers,
>     the Sambul?-J?taka (519) is illustrated at a monastery Sri Lanka.
>     Sambul? takes care of her leprosy husband Sotthisena in the
>     forest. A demon falls in love and tries to catch her but ?akra
>     rescues her.? The corresponding mural depicts ?akra as a terrible
>     being holding a club in his hands. The Pali J?taka provides no
>     description of a disguised ?akra but in the Sinhalese
>     Sambul?-J?taka we can read, that ?akra saves Sambul? in the
>     disguise of a terrible being (.../Sakdevraja bhay?naka v??ayak
>     ge?a/ ...). I suppose this is recorded in a source of the
>     M?lasarv?stiv?da-Vinaya tradition, written in Sanskrit or Tibetan.
>     Anyone of you came across a similar version of this story, where
>     ?akra saves Sambul? in a terrible disguise?
>
>     Thank you
>
>     Heiner
>
>     Rolf Heinrich Koch
>
>     -- 
>     www.rolfheinrichkoch.wordpress.com  <http://www.rolfheinrichkoch.wordpress.com>
>
>     _______________________________________________
>     INDOLOGY mailing list
>     INDOLOGY at list.indology.info <mailto:INDOLOGY at list.indology.info>
>     indology-owner at list.indology.info
>     <mailto:indology-owner at list.indology.info> (messages to the list's
>     managing committee)
>     http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list
>     options or unsubscribe)
>
-- 
www.rolfheinrichkoch.wordpress.com



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From mmdesh at umich.edu  Mon Mar 23 13:09:59 2020
From: mmdesh at umich.edu (Madhav Deshpande)
Date: Mon, 23 Mar 20 06:09:59 -0700
Subject: [INDOLOGY] A distraction from Coronavirus
Message-ID: <CAB3-dzfJQbE1Uv1c1zW63c09hYAduPbVHu0FqtN-J-0gpPstcg@mail.gmail.com>

A distraction from the Coronavirus

???????? ???: ?????? ????? ?????????? ????????? ?
???????????????? ??????? ?????? ? ?????? ??

At the ceremony of choosing a husband, the bride threw down the garland and
went away saying: "During such a difficult time due to Coronavirus, I will
not choose anyone."

Madhav M. Deshpande
Professor Emeritus, Sanskrit and Linguistics
University of Michigan, Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA
Senior Fellow, Oxford Center for Hindu Studies

[Residence: Campbell, California, USA]


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From McComas.Taylor at anu.edu.au  Tue Mar 24 01:26:56 2020
From: McComas.Taylor at anu.edu.au (McComas Taylor)
Date: Tue, 24 Mar 20 01:26:56 +0000
Subject: [INDOLOGY] World Sanskrit Conference. Deadline for abstracts extended to 17 April 2020
Message-ID: <SY4P282MB127634BF57F1C26733E6092CAEF10@SY4P282MB1276.AUSP282.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>

Dear Colleagues

We understand the uncertainties that we are all facing in the current climate, as a result of COVID-19, and restrictions on travel and the need for social distancing.

The organising committee would like to assure you that we take this situation seriously, and continue to closely monitor the advice and directions of our health experts and goverments.

At this stage, we have no reason to think that there is a need to cancel WSC2021, and as such, planning continues as normal.

We do understand that it is a busy time for you right now. Because of this, we have extended the deadline for submission of abstracts (individual papers) until Friday 17 April 2020.

Please CLICK HERE<https://www.wsc2021.com.au/activity/abstract-submission/> to view the regular sections (themes), and special panels that will be offered at WSC2021.

To submit an abstract, or view/edit abstract(s) already submitted, please click on the link below.

Abstract Submission - individual paper<https://kaigi.eventsair.com/world-sanskrit-conference/abstract-submission?Token=x1aROkH3ac44FImjxXndYNhoW3ilU9YT3b3m51BfZUYJ2DKpuclk7ox8jaspjezg>

To those of you who have already submitted an abstract, and/or registered to attend WSC2021, we thank you, and look forward to seeing you in Canberra in January. We are of course offering a full refund in the event that the coronovirus crisis does continue, and the conference is not able to proceed. We recommend that you purchase travel insurance when you book your flights.

You will be notified from 30 June 2020 whether your abstract has been selected for presentation at WSC2021.

Please do not hesitate to contact the Conference Secretariat, Kaigi Conferencing and Events if you have any queries at this stage.

Apologies for cross-posting,

With best wishes,

WSC2021 Secretariat
Kaigi Conferencing and Events
Level 1, The Realm, 18 National Circuit
Barton ACT 2600
Australia

Email: sanskrit at kaigi.com.au
Phone: +61 2 6198 3218
Website: www.wsc2021.com.au<http://www.wsc2021.com.au/>



[cid:8e606bd5-3154-4d83-aea3-9604dfd5c4b9]
McComas Taylor
Associate Professor
Reader in Sanskrit
College of Asia and the Pacific
The Australian National University
WSC Website<http://www.wsc2021.com.au>| McC Website<https://sites.google.com/site/mccomasanu/>
Tel: +61 2 6125 3179


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From ambapradeep at gmail.com  Tue Mar 24 04:07:29 2020
From: ambapradeep at gmail.com (Amba Kulkarni)
Date: Tue, 24 Mar 20 09:37:29 +0530
Subject: [INDOLOGY] WSC: Computational Sanskrit and Digital Humanities -- Date extended; Publications reg
Message-ID: <CAFffahCNauX14xGfjkji5bd8EAVAR1W02pqy7sUrH+WhRa=0-g@mail.gmail.com>

Dear colleagues,

In the backdrop of the situation due to COVID-19, the last date for paper
submission is extended *until Friday 17th April 2020.*

We are also glad to inform you that *ACL (Association for Computational
Linguistics)* has sponsored our event and the publications of section 19:
Computational Sanskrit and Digital Humanities will be published
*online* by *ACL
Anthology*, soon after the conference is over.

Please note that our section invites *FULL* Papers.

Please visit http://www.wsc2021.com.au/computational-and-digital-humanities/
for further details.

Looking forward to your contribution,

With kind regards,
G?rard Huet, Amba Kulkarni, Ian McCrabb, (Convenors)
Amba Kulkarni and Oliver Hellwig (Programme Chairs)


-- 

? ?? ?????: ?????? ????? ??????: ll
Let noble thoughts come to us from every side.
- Rig Veda, I-89-i.

Professor & Head
Department of Sanskrit Studies
University of Hyderabad
Prof. C.R. Rao Road
Hyderabad-500 046

(91) 040 23133802(off)

http://scl.samsaadhanii.in <http://sanskrit.uohyd.ac.in/faculty/amba>
http://sanskrit.uohyd.ac.in/scl
http://tdil-dc.in/san/
http://sanskrit.uohyd.ac.in/faculty/amba


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From christophe.vielle at uclouvain.be  Tue Mar 24 08:35:34 2020
From: christophe.vielle at uclouvain.be (Christophe Vielle)
Date: Tue, 24 Mar 20 08:35:34 +0000
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Nick Allen
Message-ID: <7C381B74-3813-4668-81E5-EFB35265B36E@uclouvain.be>

Dear List,
Nicholas (Nick) Allen passed away on last Saturday.
https://www.wolfson.ox.ac.uk/content/1138-dr-nicholas-allen
https://www.isca.ox.ac.uk/people/dr-nick-allen
A Floril?ge of his comparative works was issued at the end of the last year: Arjuna-Odysseus: Shared Heritage in Indian and Greek Epic, London: Routledge, 2019.

TABLE OF CONTENTS:

List of figures.
List of tables.
Acknowledgements.
List of abbreviations.
Signs.
Introduction
1. A starting point
2. Five relationships
3. Homer?s simile
4. Hero and horse
5. Yoga
6. Crocodiles and nymphs
7. Monkey and dog
8. Durga? and Athena
9. Draupadi? and Penelope
10. Bhi?sm a and Sarpedon
11. Hesiod?s Succession Myth
12. Five elements
13. Rings and rotations
14. Achilles? shield
15. Dume?zil and Dumont
16. Yudhis hira and Agamemnon
17. Kauravas and suitors
18. Hanging over abyss
19. Gods descend to battlefield 20. Heroes and supercategories
21. Cyavana and Prometheus 22. Telemachy 23. Dro a and Chryses
24. As?vattha?man and the Wooden Horse. Bibliography.
Index.

???????????????????
Christophe Vielle<https://uclouvain.be/en/directories/christophe.vielle>
Louvain-la-Neuve





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From H.J.H.Tieken at hum.leidenuniv.nl  Tue Mar 24 08:49:04 2020
From: H.J.H.Tieken at hum.leidenuniv.nl (Tieken, H.J.H.)
Date: Tue, 24 Mar 20 08:49:04 +0000
Subject: [INDOLOGY] The study of Sanskrit as the epitome of uselessness
Message-ID: <093c6cde98454cd984fe6480307e3c7f@hum.leidenuniv.nl>

Dear List members,

Last night I started reading Ever After by Graham Swift. On p. 3 of the pocket edition (Vintage International) of 1993 we hear the protagonist think:


"Before they [academics] are sixty, they are emulating one of the many varieties: ... the wide-eyed, latter-day infant, helpless in all mundane matters but possessed of a profound understanding of Sanskrit."


A few months ago I was reading Nader tot U (1969) by Gerard van 't Reve gain. One of the characters has to fill in a profession on an official paper. In the end he decides to fill in "indoloog", which is considered to be better than "general in the Hungarian army" or "stratenmaker of zee" (general dogsbody) (p. 113). There is some confusion if indoloog refers to a civil servant in the Dutch Indies here (Indie verloren, rampspoed geboren) or to an indologist, which is later resolved by remarks about gurus and bhakti. I was amazed to see that I had bought the book in the summer of 1970, just a few months before I started with the study of Sanskrit.


Are there more accidental references of this type to sanskritists or indologists in literature?

(Leaving aside Lee Siegel's novel about Professor Roth being killed by Monier-Williams Sanskrit dictionary.)


With kind regards Herman


Herman Tieken
Stationsweg 58
2515 BP Den Haag
The Netherlands
00 31 (0)70 2208127
website: hermantieken.com<http://hermantieken.com/>


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From christophe.vielle at uclouvain.be  Tue Mar 24 09:32:15 2020
From: christophe.vielle at uclouvain.be (Christophe Vielle)
Date: Tue, 24 Mar 20 10:32:15 +0100
Subject: [INDOLOGY] The study of Sanskrit as the epitome of uselessness
In-Reply-To: <093c6cde98454cd984fe6480307e3c7f@hum.leidenuniv.nl>
Message-ID: <81C96F11-F41C-4D1A-A67A-C97B59C8DAD3@uclouvain.be>

The Classicist Nuccio Ordine has published a stimulating (useful) essay "De l'utilit? de l'inutile" (English translation: The Usefulness of the Useless").
where Sanskrit studies, together with Classics, are given as an example of (useful) usefulness, cf. p. 95 of the Engl. Transl.:
https://books.google.com/books?id=NCArDgAAQBAJ <https://books.google.be/books?id=NCArDgAAQBAJ&pg=PA95&lpg=PA95&dq=nuccio+ordine+the+usefulness+of+the+useless+sanskrit&source=bl&ots=JmMiqWAORS&sig=ACfU3U0_SDl4ZpYaNsGhUnflgLpFvJYTDg&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwj-rMSM5bLoAhXEMewKHYVdDp4Q6AEwAXoECAoQAQ#v=onepage&q=nuccio ordine the usefulness of the useless sanskrit&f=false>
See also it in his oral presentations:
https://uclouvain.be/en/research-institutes/incal/conference-du-pr-nuccio-ordine.html <https://uclouvain.be/en/research-institutes/incal/conference-du-pr-nuccio-ordine.html>
Quel danger courons-nous actuellement ? Dans une universit?-entreprise, quand un professeur de sanskrit aura deux ?tudiants, le Conseil d?administration de l?Universit? pourra dire que celle-ci ne peut pas se permettre le luxe de payer un professeur de sanskrit pour deux ?tudiants. Demain, cela sera pour dix ?tudiants en grec, et apr?s-demain pour quinze ?tudiants en latin.

> Le 24 mars 2020 ? 09:49, Tieken, H.J.H. via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info> a ?crit :
> 
> Dear List members,
> Last night I started reading Ever After by Graham Swift. On p. 3 of the pocket edition (Vintage International) of 1993 we hear the protagonist think:
> 
> "Before they [academics] are sixty, they are emulating one of the many varieties: ... the wide-eyed, latter-day infant, helpless in all mundane matters but possessed of a profound understanding of Sanskrit."
> 
> A few months ago I was reading Nader tot U (1969) by Gerard van 't Reve gain. One of the characters has to fill in a profession on an official paper. In the end he decides to fill in "indoloog", which is considered to be better than "general in the Hungarian army" or "stratenmaker of zee" (general dogsbody) (p. 113). There is some confusion if indoloog refers to a civil servant in the Dutch Indies here (Indie verloren, rampspoed geboren) or to an indologist, which is later resolved by remarks about gurus and bhakti. I was amazed to see that I had bought the book in the summer of 1970, just a few months before I started with the study of Sanskrit.
> 
> Are there more accidental references of this type to sanskritists or indologists in literature?
> (Leaving aside Lee Siegel's novel about Professor Roth being killed by Monier-Williams Sanskrit dictionary.)
> 
> With kind regards Herman
> 
> Herman Tieken
> Stationsweg 58
> 2515 BP Den Haag
> The Netherlands
> 00 31 (0)70 2208127
> website: hermantieken.com <https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fhermantieken.com%2F&data=02%7C01%7Cchristophe.vielle%40uclouvain.be%7C2ebe73edfa3d487755a208d7cfd05574%7C7ab090d4fa2e4ecfbc7c4127b4d582ec%7C0%7C0%7C637206365997980559&sdata=knZj3KCyfVrhEl8UT1nRa97QamdqJ1dnMK8PR5N0U9A%3D&reserved=0>_______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info <mailto:INDOLOGY at list.indology.info>
> indology-owner at list.indology.info <mailto:indology-owner at list.indology.info> (messages to the list's managing committee)
> https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Flistinfo.indology.info&amp;data=02%7C01%7Cchristophe.vielle%40uclouvain.be%7C2ebe73edfa3d487755a208d7cfd05574%7C7ab090d4fa2e4ecfbc7c4127b4d582ec%7C0%7C0%7C637206365998000549&amp;sdata=B9%2FyGKbIEipYn6NFLro1fpP9%2FGr6HMQ%2F4maeh1BWxaU%3D&amp;reserved=0 <https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Flistinfo.indology.info&amp;data=02%7C01%7Cchristophe.vielle%40uclouvain.be%7C2ebe73edfa3d487755a208d7cfd05574%7C7ab090d4fa2e4ecfbc7c4127b4d582ec%7C0%7C0%7C637206365998000549&amp;sdata=B9%2FyGKbIEipYn6NFLro1fpP9%2FGr6HMQ%2F4maeh1BWxaU%3D&amp;reserved=0> (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe)

???????????????????
Christophe Vielle <https://uclouvain.be/en/directories/christophe.vielle>
Louvain-la-Neuve





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From kauzeya at gmail.com  Tue Mar 24 09:33:04 2020
From: kauzeya at gmail.com (Jonathan Silk)
Date: Tue, 24 Mar 20 10:33:04 +0100
Subject: [INDOLOGY] The study of Sanskrit as the epitome of uselessness
In-Reply-To: <093c6cde98454cd984fe6480307e3c7f@hum.leidenuniv.nl>
Message-ID: <CAMGmO4+-Hi3VaHENYWz1Za4HLNG7FgDtyaq5K2EURy9mKAUUdQ@mail.gmail.com>

Dear Herman

One first thinks of course of Col.Pickering in My Fair Lady (I confess I
have not read the play itself). He is the author of "Spoken Sanskrit", and
thus obviously an object of ridicule.
When I was a child, an expression for something incomprehensible was
"Sanskrit legalese."
When I finally read (part of, I confess) a dharma text, I was
extraordinarily proud of the accomplishment for that reason!

Jonthan

On Tue, Mar 24, 2020 at 9:49 AM Tieken, H.J.H. via INDOLOGY <
indology at list.indology.info> wrote:

> Dear List members,
>
> Last night I started reading Ever After by Graham Swift. On p. 3 of the
> pocket edition (Vintage International) of 1993 we hear the protagonist
> think:
>
>
> "Before they [academics] are sixty, they are emulating one of the many
> varieties: ... the wide-eyed, latter-day infant, helpless in all mundane
> matters but possessed of a profound understanding of Sanskrit."
>
>
> A few months ago I was reading Nader tot U (1969) by Gerard van 't Reve
> gain. One of the characters has to fill in a profession on an official
> paper. In the end he decides to fill in "indoloog", which is considered to
> be better than "general in the Hungarian army" or "stratenmaker of zee"
> (general dogsbody) (p. 113). There is some confusion if indoloog refers to
> a civil servant in the Dutch Indies here (Indie verloren, rampspoed
> geboren) or to an indologist, which is later resolved by remarks about
> gurus and bhakti. I was amazed to see that I had bought the book in the
> summer of 1970, just a few months before I started with the study of
> Sanskrit.
>
>
> Are there more accidental references of this type to sanskritists or
> indologists in literature?
>
> (Leaving aside Lee Siegel's novel about Professor Roth being killed by
> Monier-Williams Sanskrit dictionary.)
>
>
> With kind regards Herman
>
>
> Herman Tieken
> Stationsweg 58
> 2515 BP Den Haag
> The Netherlands
> 00 31 (0)70 2208127
> website: hermantieken.com
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
> committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
> unsubscribe)
>


-- 
J. Silk
Leiden University
Leiden University Institute for Area Studies, LIAS
Matthias de Vrieshof 3, Room 0.05b
2311 BZ Leiden
The Netherlands

copies of my publications may be found at
https://leidenuniv.academia.edu/JASilk


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From mkapstei at uchicago.edu  Tue Mar 24 09:38:09 2020
From: mkapstei at uchicago.edu (Matthew Kapstein)
Date: Tue, 24 Mar 20 09:38:09 +0000
Subject: [INDOLOGY] The study of Sanskrit as the epitome of uselessness
In-Reply-To: <81C96F11-F41C-4D1A-A67A-C97B59C8DAD3@uclouvain.be>
Message-ID: <DM6PR11MB40598EFA00A4046A48C2919BA1F10@DM6PR11MB4059.namprd11.prod.outlook.com>

This reminds me that one of my teachers, the great Prof. Padmanabh Jaini, lost several students in the late 70s because the job market seemed particularly bad. They switched to law and easily passed the special examinations, the "Law Boards," for entering American Law Schools. Jaini joked that the field could be saved and even expanded by converting Sanskrit to a pre-law required course.

Matthew Kapstein
Directeur d'?tudes, ?m?rite
Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes, Paris

Numata Visiting Professor of Buddhist Studies,
The University of Chicago
________________________________
From: INDOLOGY <indology-bounces at list.indology.info> on behalf of Christophe Vielle via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info>
Sent: Tuesday, March 24, 2020 4:32 AM
To: Tieken, H.J.H. <H.J.H.Tieken at hum.leidenuniv.nl>
Cc: indology <indology at list.indology.info>
Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] The study of Sanskrit as the epitome of uselessness

The Classicist Nuccio Ordine has published a stimulating (useful) essay "De l'utilit? de l'inutile" (English translation: The Usefulness of the Useless").
where Sanskrit studies, together with Classics, are given as an example of (useful) usefulness, cf. p. 95 of the Engl. Transl.:
https://books.google.com/books?id=NCArDgAAQBAJ<https://books.google.be/books?id=NCArDgAAQBAJ&pg=PA95&lpg=PA95&dq=nuccio+ordine+the+usefulness+of+the+useless+sanskrit&source=bl&ots=JmMiqWAORS&sig=ACfU3U0_SDl4ZpYaNsGhUnflgLpFvJYTDg&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwj-rMSM5bLoAhXEMewKHYVdDp4Q6AEwAXoECAoQAQ#v=onepage&q=nuccio%20ordine%20the%20usefulness%20of%20the%20useless%20sanskrit&f=false>
See also it in his oral presentations:
https://uclouvain.be/en/research-institutes/incal/conference-du-pr-nuccio-ordine.html
Quel danger courons-nous actuellement ? Dans une universit?-entreprise, quand un professeur de sanskrit aura deux ?tudiants, le Conseil d?administration de l?Universit? pourra dire que celle-ci ne peut pas se permettre le luxe de payer un professeur de sanskrit pour deux ?tudiants. Demain, cela sera pour dix ?tudiants en grec, et apr?s-demain pour quinze ?tudiants en latin.

Le 24 mars 2020 ? 09:49, Tieken, H.J.H. via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info<mailto:indology at list.indology.info>> a ?crit :

Dear List members,
Last night I started reading Ever After by Graham Swift. On p. 3 of the pocket edition (Vintage International) of 1993 we hear the protagonist think:

"Before they [academics] are sixty, they are emulating one of the many varieties: ... the wide-eyed, latter-day infant, helpless in all mundane matters but possessed of a profound understanding of Sanskrit."

A few months ago I was reading Nader tot U (1969) by Gerard van 't Reve gain. One of the characters has to fill in a profession on an official paper. In the end he decides to fill in "indoloog", which is considered to be better than "general in the Hungarian army" or "stratenmaker of zee" (general dogsbody) (p. 113). There is some confusion if indoloog refers to a civil servant in the Dutch Indies here (Indie verloren, rampspoed geboren) or to an indologist, which is later resolved by remarks about gurus and bhakti. I was amazed to see that I had bought the book in the summer of 1970, just a few months before I started with the study of Sanskrit.

Are there more accidental references of this type to sanskritists or indologists in literature?
(Leaving aside Lee Siegel's novel about Professor Roth being killed by Monier-Williams Sanskrit dictionary.)

With kind regards Herman

Herman Tieken
Stationsweg 58
2515 BP Den Haag
The Netherlands
00 31 (0)70 2208127
website: hermantieken.com<https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fhermantieken.com%2F&data=02%7C01%7Cchristophe.vielle%40uclouvain.be%7C2ebe73edfa3d487755a208d7cfd05574%7C7ab090d4fa2e4ecfbc7c4127b4d582ec%7C0%7C0%7C637206365997980559&sdata=knZj3KCyfVrhEl8UT1nRa97QamdqJ1dnMK8PR5N0U9A%3D&reserved=0>
_______________________________________________
INDOLOGY mailing list
INDOLOGY at list.indology.info<mailto:INDOLOGY at list.indology.info>
indology-owner at list.indology.info<mailto:indology-owner at list.indology.info> (messages to the list's managing committee)
https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Flistinfo.indology.info&amp;data=02%7C01%7Cchristophe.vielle%40uclouvain.be%7C2ebe73edfa3d487755a208d7cfd05574%7C7ab090d4fa2e4ecfbc7c4127b4d582ec%7C0%7C0%7C637206365998000549&amp;sdata=B9%2FyGKbIEipYn6NFLro1fpP9%2FGr6HMQ%2F4maeh1BWxaU%3D&amp;reserved=0 (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe)

???????????????????
Christophe Vielle<https://uclouvain.be/en/directories/christophe.vielle>
Louvain-la-Neuve





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From klaus.karttunen at helsinki.fi  Tue Mar 24 10:22:40 2020
From: klaus.karttunen at helsinki.fi (Karttunen, Klaus J)
Date: Tue, 24 Mar 20 10:22:40 +0000
Subject: [INDOLOGY] The study of Sanskrit as the epitome of uselessness
In-Reply-To: <DM6PR11MB40598EFA00A4046A48C2919BA1F10@DM6PR11MB4059.namprd11.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <HE1PR07MB3097E455B961FEA8874E48EDEAF10@HE1PR07MB3097.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com>

In 1943 the Finnish author Matti H?lli (1913?1988) published a detective story ?Sopimatonta kuolla yliopistolla? (Improper to die at the university). A student is poisoned in a lecture of aesthetics. When the police is wondering, how few were attending the lecture, the Professor defends himself saying that the Professor of Sanskrit has just one single student. At that time there was no Professor of Sanskrit, but the language was taught. In fact, one single student at that time was quite possible. When the first year Sanskrit at Helsinki ended in spring 1972, we were only three (and I was the only one to continue in the next term).

Best,
Klaus
________________________________
From: INDOLOGY <indology-bounces at list.indology.info> on behalf of Matthew Kapstein via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info>
Sent: 24 March 2020 11:38
To: Tieken, H.J.H. <H.J.H.Tieken at hum.leidenuniv.nl>; Christophe Vielle <christophe.vielle at uclouvain.be>
Cc: indology <indology at list.indology.info>
Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] The study of Sanskrit as the epitome of uselessness

This reminds me that one of my teachers, the great Prof. Padmanabh Jaini, lost several students in the late 70s because the job market seemed particularly bad. They switched to law and easily passed the special examinations, the "Law Boards," for entering American Law Schools. Jaini joked that the field could be saved and even expanded by converting Sanskrit to a pre-law required course.

Matthew Kapstein
Directeur d'?tudes, ?m?rite
Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes, Paris

Numata Visiting Professor of Buddhist Studies,
The University of Chicago
________________________________
From: INDOLOGY <indology-bounces at list.indology.info> on behalf of Christophe Vielle via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info>
Sent: Tuesday, March 24, 2020 4:32 AM
To: Tieken, H.J.H. <H.J.H.Tieken at hum.leidenuniv.nl>
Cc: indology <indology at list.indology.info>
Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] The study of Sanskrit as the epitome of uselessness

The Classicist Nuccio Ordine has published a stimulating (useful) essay "De l'utilit? de l'inutile" (English translation: The Usefulness of the Useless").
where Sanskrit studies, together with Classics, are given as an example of (useful) usefulness, cf. p. 95 of the Engl. Transl.:
https://books.google.com/books?id=NCArDgAAQBAJ<https://books.google.be/books?id=NCArDgAAQBAJ&pg=PA95&lpg=PA95&dq=nuccio+ordine+the+usefulness+of+the+useless+sanskrit&source=bl&ots=JmMiqWAORS&sig=ACfU3U0_SDl4ZpYaNsGhUnflgLpFvJYTDg&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwj-rMSM5bLoAhXEMewKHYVdDp4Q6AEwAXoECAoQAQ#v=onepage&q=nuccio%20ordine%20the%20usefulness%20of%20the%20useless%20sanskrit&f=false>
See also it in his oral presentations:
https://uclouvain.be/en/research-institutes/incal/conference-du-pr-nuccio-ordine.html
Quel danger courons-nous actuellement ? Dans une universit?-entreprise, quand un professeur de sanskrit aura deux ?tudiants, le Conseil d?administration de l?Universit? pourra dire que celle-ci ne peut pas se permettre le luxe de payer un professeur de sanskrit pour deux ?tudiants. Demain, cela sera pour dix ?tudiants en grec, et apr?s-demain pour quinze ?tudiants en latin.

Le 24 mars 2020 ? 09:49, Tieken, H.J.H. via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info<mailto:indology at list.indology.info>> a ?crit :

Dear List members,
Last night I started reading Ever After by Graham Swift. On p. 3 of the pocket edition (Vintage International) of 1993 we hear the protagonist think:

"Before they [academics] are sixty, they are emulating one of the many varieties: ... the wide-eyed, latter-day infant, helpless in all mundane matters but possessed of a profound understanding of Sanskrit."

A few months ago I was reading Nader tot U (1969) by Gerard van 't Reve gain. One of the characters has to fill in a profession on an official paper. In the end he decides to fill in "indoloog", which is considered to be better than "general in the Hungarian army" or "stratenmaker of zee" (general dogsbody) (p. 113). There is some confusion if indoloog refers to a civil servant in the Dutch Indies here (Indie verloren, rampspoed geboren) or to an indologist, which is later resolved by remarks about gurus and bhakti. I was amazed to see that I had bought the book in the summer of 1970, just a few months before I started with the study of Sanskrit.

Are there more accidental references of this type to sanskritists or indologists in literature?
(Leaving aside Lee Siegel's novel about Professor Roth being killed by Monier-Williams Sanskrit dictionary.)

With kind regards Herman

Herman Tieken
Stationsweg 58
2515 BP Den Haag
The Netherlands
00 31 (0)70 2208127
website: hermantieken.com<https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fhermantieken.com%2F&data=02%7C01%7Cchristophe.vielle%40uclouvain.be%7C2ebe73edfa3d487755a208d7cfd05574%7C7ab090d4fa2e4ecfbc7c4127b4d582ec%7C0%7C0%7C637206365997980559&sdata=knZj3KCyfVrhEl8UT1nRa97QamdqJ1dnMK8PR5N0U9A%3D&reserved=0>
_______________________________________________
INDOLOGY mailing list
INDOLOGY at list.indology.info<mailto:INDOLOGY at list.indology.info>
indology-owner at list.indology.info<mailto:indology-owner at list.indology.info> (messages to the list's managing committee)
https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Flistinfo.indology.info&amp;data=02%7C01%7Cchristophe.vielle%40uclouvain.be%7C2ebe73edfa3d487755a208d7cfd05574%7C7ab090d4fa2e4ecfbc7c4127b4d582ec%7C0%7C0%7C637206365998000549&amp;sdata=B9%2FyGKbIEipYn6NFLro1fpP9%2FGr6HMQ%2F4maeh1BWxaU%3D&amp;reserved=0 (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe)

???????????????????
Christophe Vielle<https://uclouvain.be/en/directories/christophe.vielle>
Louvain-la-Neuve





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From psdmccartney at gmail.com  Tue Mar 24 10:24:20 2020
From: psdmccartney at gmail.com (patrick mccartney)
Date: Tue, 24 Mar 20 19:24:20 +0900
Subject: [INDOLOGY] The study of Sanskrit as the epitome of uselessness
In-Reply-To: <DM6PR11MB40598EFA00A4046A48C2919BA1F10@DM6PR11MB4059.namprd11.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <CAEzwJrDZUTGXuKcic+XhU8E7Y=xRYypT6BW2PQXLQX43d4VwsA@mail.gmail.com>

Sort of related, on page 100 of chapter 5, of Amazing Stories (1943) issue
17 no 05, the following is said:

She put her hands on her hips, her
face thoughtful. Then she grabbed hold
of the grab-rail on the side of the door-
way, stepped into the bipedomobile.
She wasn?t a tall girl, but she had to
stoop.

Her eyes were grave. Suddenly she
pointed into the distance.

?Godwa te lele!?
?It?s all Sanskrit to me, Jamie,? he
said sadly. ?They?ve sure done you up
brown, haven?t they ? ^you?ve forgotten
entirely, haven?t you? Well, if you want
to go in that direction, okay. It?s as
good as any, and maybe we?ll solve a
few mysteries while we?re at it. We
might even find out how to get your
memory back again.?

She smiled dazzlingly. She pointed
again.

This link will take you to the relevant page -
https://archive.org/details/Amazing_Stories_v17n05_1943-05_cape1736/page/n99/mode/2up/search/sanskrit

All the best,

????? ???????
Patrick McCartney, PhD
Research Affiliate - Organization for Identity and Cultural Development
(OICD), Kyoto
Research Associate - Nanzan University Anthropological Institute, Nagoya,
Japan
Visiting Fellow - South and South-east Asian Studies Department, Australian
National University
Member - South Asia Research Institute (SARI), Australian National
University

Skype / Zoom - psdmccartney
Phone + Whatsapp + Line:  +61410644259
Twitter - @psdmccartney @yogascapesinjap
 Yogascapes in Japan <http://yogascapes.weebly.com/> Academia
<https://patrickmccartney.academia.edu/> Linkedin
<https://www.linkedin.com/profile/view?id=241756978&trk=nav_responsive_tab_profile>
 Modern Yoga Research <http://www.modernyogaresearch.org/events/>

*bodhap?rvam calema* ;-)







   -










On Tue, Mar 24, 2020 at 6:38 PM Matthew Kapstein via INDOLOGY <
indology at list.indology.info> wrote:

> This reminds me that one of my teachers, the great Prof. Padmanabh Jaini,
> lost several students in the late 70s because the job market seemed
> particularly bad. They switched to law and easily passed the special
> examinations, the "Law Boards," for entering American Law Schools. Jaini
> joked that the field could be saved and even expanded by converting
> Sanskrit to a pre-law required course.
>
> Matthew Kapstein
> Directeur d'?tudes, ?m?rite
> Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes, Paris
>
> Numata Visiting Professor of Buddhist Studies,
> The University of Chicago
> ------------------------------
> From: INDOLOGY <indology-bounces at list.indology.info> on behalf of
> Christophe Vielle via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info>
> Sent: Tuesday, March 24, 2020 4:32 AM
> To: Tieken, H.J.H. <H.J.H.Tieken at hum.leidenuniv.nl>
> Cc: indology <indology at list.indology.info>
> Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] The study of Sanskrit as the epitome of uselessness
>
> The Classicist Nuccio Ordine has published a stimulating (useful) essay
> "De l'utilit? de l'inutile" (English translation: The Usefulness of the
> Useless").
> where Sanskrit studies, together with Classics, are given as an example of
> (useful) usefulness, cf. p. 95 of the Engl. Transl.:
> https://books.google.com/books?id=NCArDgAAQBAJ
> <https://books.google.be/books?id=NCArDgAAQBAJ&pg=PA95&lpg=PA95&dq=nuccio+ordine+the+usefulness+of+the+useless+sanskrit&source=bl&ots=JmMiqWAORS&sig=ACfU3U0_SDl4ZpYaNsGhUnflgLpFvJYTDg&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwj-rMSM5bLoAhXEMewKHYVdDp4Q6AEwAXoECAoQAQ#v=onepage&q=nuccio%20ordine%20the%20usefulness%20of%20the%20useless%20sanskrit&f=false>
> See also it in his oral presentations:
>
> https://uclouvain.be/en/research-institutes/incal/conference-du-pr-nuccio-ordine.html
> Quel danger courons-nous actuellement ? Dans une universit?-entreprise,
> quand un professeur de sanskrit aura deux ?tudiants, le Conseil
> d?administration de l?Universit? pourra dire que celle-ci ne peut pas se
> permettre le luxe de payer un professeur de sanskrit pour deux ?tudiants.
> Demain, cela sera pour dix ?tudiants en grec, et apr?s-demain pour quinze
> ?tudiants en latin.
>
> Le 24 mars 2020 ? 09:49, Tieken, H.J.H. via INDOLOGY <
> indology at list.indology.info> a ?crit :
>
> Dear List members,
> Last night I started reading Ever After by Graham Swift. On p. 3 of the
> pocket edition (Vintage International) of 1993 we hear the protagonist
> think:
>
> "Before they [academics] are sixty, they are emulating one of the many
> varieties: ... the wide-eyed, latter-day infant, helpless in all mundane
> matters but possessed of a profound understanding of Sanskrit."
>
> A few months ago I was reading Nader tot U (1969) by Gerard van 't Reve
> gain. One of the characters has to fill in a profession on an official
> paper. In the end he decides to fill in "indoloog", which is considered to
> be better than "general in the Hungarian army" or "stratenmaker of zee"
> (general dogsbody) (p. 113). There is some confusion if indoloog refers to
> a civil servant in the Dutch Indies here (Indie verloren, rampspoed
> geboren) or to an indologist, which is later resolved by remarks about
> gurus and bhakti. I was amazed to see that I had bought the book in the
> summer of 1970, just a few months before I started with the study of
> Sanskrit.
>
> Are there more accidental references of this type to sanskritists or
> indologists in literature?
> (Leaving aside Lee Siegel's novel about Professor Roth being killed by
> Monier-Williams Sanskrit dictionary.)
>
> With kind regards Herman
>
> Herman Tieken
> Stationsweg 58
> 2515 BP Den Haag
> The Netherlands
> 00 31 (0)70 2208127
> website: hermantieken.com
> <https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fhermantieken.com%2F&data=02%7C01%7Cchristophe.vielle%40uclouvain.be%7C2ebe73edfa3d487755a208d7cfd05574%7C7ab090d4fa2e4ecfbc7c4127b4d582ec%7C0%7C0%7C637206365997980559&sdata=knZj3KCyfVrhEl8UT1nRa97QamdqJ1dnMK8PR5N0U9A%3D&reserved=0>
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
> committee)
>
> https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Flistinfo.indology.info&amp;data=02%7C01%7Cchristophe.vielle%40uclouvain.be%7C2ebe73edfa3d487755a208d7cfd05574%7C7ab090d4fa2e4ecfbc7c4127b4d582ec%7C0%7C0%7C637206365998000549&amp;sdata=B9%2FyGKbIEipYn6NFLro1fpP9%2FGr6HMQ%2F4maeh1BWxaU%3D&amp;reserved=0
>  (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe)
>
>
> ???????????????????
> Christophe Vielle <https://uclouvain.be/en/directories/christophe.vielle>
> Louvain-la-Neuve
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
> committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
> unsubscribe)
>


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From sellmers at gmx.de  Tue Mar 24 10:56:21 2020
From: sellmers at gmx.de (Sven Sellmer)
Date: Tue, 24 Mar 20 11:56:21 +0100
Subject: [INDOLOGY] The study of Sanskrit as the epitome of uselessness
In-Reply-To: <CAEzwJrDZUTGXuKcic+XhU8E7Y=xRYypT6BW2PQXLQX43d4VwsA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <7F93934A-92EE-42D6-AC5D-0D8A820BF998@gmx.de>

Dear All!

One may also add a passage of Hermann Hesse's "Glasperlenspiel" here, though also rather in the category of useful uselessness:

? schon manche von ihnen haben ihr Leben an sehr entlegene und oft wunderliche Arbeiten gewendet, wie etwa jener Lodovicus crudelis, der in drei?igj?hriger Arbeit alle ?berlieferten alt?gyptischen Texte sowohl ins Griechiche wie ins Sanskrit ?bersetzt hat ?

? not few of them devoted their lives to very marginal and often rather strange occupations, like one Lodovicus crudelis, who in the course of thirty years translated all preserved Old Egyptian texts both into Greek and into Sanskrit ? 

Best wishes,
Sven

****************************
Sven Sellmer, PhD
Adam Mickiewicz University
Institute of Oriental Studies
Department of South Asian Studies
ul. Grunwaldzka 6
60-780 Pozna?
POLAND
sven.sellmer at amu.edu.pl <mailto:sven.sellmer at amu.edu.pl>

> Am 24.03.2020 um 11:24 schrieb patrick mccartney via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info>:
> 
> Sort of related, on page 100 of chapter 5, of Amazing Stories (1943) issue 17 no 05, the following is said: 
> She put her hands on her hips, her 
> face thoughtful. Then she grabbed hold 
> of the grab-rail on the side of the door- 
> way, stepped into the bipedomobile. 
> She wasn?t a tall girl, but she had to 
> stoop. 
> 
> Her eyes were grave. Suddenly she 
> pointed into the distance. 
> 
> ?Godwa te lele!? 
> 
> ?It?s all Sanskrit to me, Jamie,? he 
> said sadly. ?They?ve sure done you up 
> brown, haven?t they ? ^you?ve forgotten 
> entirely, haven?t you? Well, if you want 
> to go in that direction, okay. It?s as 
> good as any, and maybe we?ll solve a 
> few mysteries while we?re at it. We 
> might even find out how to get your 
> memory back again.? 
> 
> She smiled dazzlingly. She pointed 
> again.
> This link will take you to the relevant page - https://archive.org/details/Amazing_Stories_v17n05_1943-05_cape1736/page/n99/mode/2up/search/sanskrit <https://archive.org/details/Amazing_Stories_v17n05_1943-05_cape1736/page/n99/mode/2up/search/sanskrit>
> 
> All the best,
> 
> ?????????????
> Patrick McCartney, PhD
> Research Affiliate - Organization for Identity and Cultural Development (OICD), Kyoto
> Research Associate - Nanzan University Anthropological Institute, Nagoya, Japan
> Visiting Fellow - South and South-east Asian Studies Department, Australian National University
> Member - South Asia Research Institute (SARI), Australian National University
> 
> Skype / Zoom - psdmccartney
> Phone + Whatsapp + Line:  +61410644259
> Twitter - @psdmccartney @yogascapesinjap
>  Yogascapes in Japan <http://yogascapes.weebly.com/> Academia <https://patrickmccartney.academia.edu/> Linkedin <https://www.linkedin.com/profile/view?id=241756978&trk=nav_responsive_tab_profile> Modern Yoga Research <http://www.modernyogaresearch.org/events/>
> 
> bodhap?rvam calema ;-)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On Tue, Mar 24, 2020 at 6:38 PM Matthew Kapstein via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info <mailto:indology at list.indology.info>> wrote:
> This reminds me that one of my teachers, the great Prof. Padmanabh Jaini, lost several students in the late 70s because the job market seemed particularly bad. They switched to law and easily passed the special examinations, the "Law Boards," for entering American Law Schools. Jaini joked that the field could be saved and even expanded by converting Sanskrit to a pre-law required course.
> 
> Matthew Kapstein
> Directeur d'?tudes, ?m?rite
> Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes, Paris
> 
> Numata Visiting Professor of Buddhist Studies,
> The University of Chicago
> From: INDOLOGY <indology-bounces at list.indology.info <mailto:indology-bounces at list.indology.info>> on behalf of Christophe Vielle via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info <mailto:indology at list.indology.info>>
> Sent: Tuesday, March 24, 2020 4:32 AM
> To: Tieken, H.J.H. <H.J.H.Tieken at hum.leidenuniv.nl <mailto:H.J.H.Tieken at hum.leidenuniv.nl>>
> Cc: indology <indology at list.indology.info <mailto:indology at list.indology.info>>
> Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] The study of Sanskrit as the epitome of uselessness
>  
> The Classicist Nuccio Ordine has published a stimulating (useful) essay "De l'utilit? de l'inutile" (English translation: The Usefulness of the Useless").
> where Sanskrit studies, together with Classics, are given as an example of (useful) usefulness, cf. p. 95 of the Engl. Transl.:
> https://books.google.com/books?id=NCArDgAAQBAJ <https://books.google.be/books?id=NCArDgAAQBAJ&pg=PA95&lpg=PA95&dq=nuccio+ordine+the+usefulness+of+the+useless+sanskrit&source=bl&ots=JmMiqWAORS&sig=ACfU3U0_SDl4ZpYaNsGhUnflgLpFvJYTDg&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwj-rMSM5bLoAhXEMewKHYVdDp4Q6AEwAXoECAoQAQ#v=onepage&q=nuccio%20ordine%20the%20usefulness%20of%20the%20useless%20sanskrit&f=false>
> See also it in his oral presentations:
> https://uclouvain.be/en/research-institutes/incal/conference-du-pr-nuccio-ordine.html <https://uclouvain.be/en/research-institutes/incal/conference-du-pr-nuccio-ordine.html>
> Quel danger courons-nous actuellement ? Dans une universit?-entreprise, quand un professeur de sanskrit aura deux ?tudiants, le Conseil d?administration de l?Universit? pourra dire que celle-ci ne peut pas se permettre le luxe de payer un professeur de sanskrit pour deux ?tudiants. Demain, cela sera pour dix ?tudiants en grec, et apr?s-demain pour quinze ?tudiants en latin.
> 
>> Le 24 mars 2020 ? 09:49, Tieken, H.J.H. via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info <mailto:indology at list.indology.info>> a ?crit :
>> 
>> Dear List members,
>> Last night I started reading Ever After by Graham Swift. On p. 3 of the pocket edition (Vintage International) of 1993 we hear the protagonist think:
>> 
>> "Before they [academics] are sixty, they are emulating one of the many varieties: ... the wide-eyed, latter-day infant, helpless in all mundane matters but possessed of a profound understanding of Sanskrit."
>> 
>> A few months ago I was reading Nader tot U (1969) by Gerard van 't Reve gain. One of the characters has to fill in a profession on an official paper. In the end he decides to fill in "indoloog", which is considered to be better than "general in the Hungarian army" or "stratenmaker of zee" (general dogsbody) (p. 113). There is some confusion if indoloog refers to a civil servant in the Dutch Indies here (Indie verloren, rampspoed geboren) or to an indologist, which is later resolved by remarks about gurus and bhakti. I was amazed to see that I had bought the book in the summer of 1970, just a few months before I started with the study of Sanskrit.
>> 
>> Are there more accidental references of this type to sanskritists or indologists in literature?
>> (Leaving aside Lee Siegel's novel about Professor Roth being killed by Monier-Williams Sanskrit dictionary.)
>> 
>> With kind regards Herman
>> 
>> Herman Tieken
>> Stationsweg 58
>> 2515 BP Den Haag
>> The Netherlands
>> 00 31 (0)70 2208127
>> website: hermantieken.com <https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fhermantieken.com%2F&data=02%7C01%7Cchristophe.vielle%40uclouvain.be%7C2ebe73edfa3d487755a208d7cfd05574%7C7ab090d4fa2e4ecfbc7c4127b4d582ec%7C0%7C0%7C637206365997980559&sdata=knZj3KCyfVrhEl8UT1nRa97QamdqJ1dnMK8PR5N0U9A%3D&reserved=0>_______________________________________________
>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info <mailto:INDOLOGY at list.indology.info>
>> indology-owner at list.indology.info <mailto:indology-owner at list.indology.info> (messages to the list's managing committee)
>> https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Flistinfo.indology.info&amp;data=02%7C01%7Cchristophe.vielle%40uclouvain.be%7C2ebe73edfa3d487755a208d7cfd05574%7C7ab090d4fa2e4ecfbc7c4127b4d582ec%7C0%7C0%7C637206365998000549&amp;sdata=B9%2FyGKbIEipYn6NFLro1fpP9%2FGr6HMQ%2F4maeh1BWxaU%3D&amp;reserved=0 <https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Flistinfo.indology.info&amp;data=02%7C01%7Cchristophe.vielle%40uclouvain.be%7C2ebe73edfa3d487755a208d7cfd05574%7C7ab090d4fa2e4ecfbc7c4127b4d582ec%7C0%7C0%7C637206365998000549&amp;sdata=B9%2FyGKbIEipYn6NFLro1fpP9%2FGr6HMQ%2F4maeh1BWxaU%3D&amp;reserved=0> (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe)
> 
> ???????????????????
> Christophe Vielle <https://uclouvain.be/en/directories/christophe.vielle>
> Louvain-la-Neuve
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info <mailto:INDOLOGY at list.indology.info>
> indology-owner at list.indology.info <mailto:indology-owner at list.indology.info> (messages to the list's managing committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info <http://listinfo.indology.info/> (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe)
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe)



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From vbd203 at googlemail.com  Tue Mar 24 11:09:14 2020
From: vbd203 at googlemail.com (victor davella)
Date: Tue, 24 Mar 20 12:09:14 +0100
Subject: [INDOLOGY] The study of Sanskrit as the epitome of uselessness
In-Reply-To: <7F93934A-92EE-42D6-AC5D-0D8A820BF998@gmx.de>
Message-ID: <CAETY2G2TjJEPd77_xn2q6R4X=Vu3v2jHfgdJkRfmKbdo-dP09A@mail.gmail.com>

Perhaps less illustrious than Hesse:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pdv36kxxzBM  (2:25)

and

https://www.dictionary.com/browse/arcane?s=t (example sentence)

All the Best
Victor

On Tue, Mar 24, 2020 at 11:57 AM Sven Sellmer via INDOLOGY <
indology at list.indology.info> wrote:

> Dear All!
>
> One may also add a passage of Hermann Hesse's "Glasperlenspiel" here,
> though also rather in the category of useful uselessness:
>
> ? schon manche von ihnen haben ihr Leben an sehr entlegene und oft
> wunderliche Arbeiten gewendet, wie etwa jener Lodovicus crudelis, der in
> drei?igj?hriger Arbeit alle ?berlieferten alt?gyptischen Texte sowohl ins
> Griechiche wie ins Sanskrit ?bersetzt hat ?
>
> ? not few of them devoted their lives to very marginal and often rather
> strange occupations, like one Lodovicus crudelis, who in the course of
> thirty years translated all preserved Old Egyptian texts both into Greek
> and into Sanskrit ?
>
> Best wishes,
> Sven
>
> ****************************
> Sven Sellmer, PhD
> Adam Mickiewicz University
> Institute of Oriental Studies
> Department of South Asian Studies
> ul. Grunwaldzka 6
> 60-780 Pozna?
> POLAND
> sven.sellmer at amu.edu.pl
>
> Am 24.03.2020 um 11:24 schrieb patrick mccartney via INDOLOGY <
> indology at list.indology.info>:
>
> Sort of related, on page 100 of chapter 5, of Amazing Stories (1943)
> issue 17 no 05, the following is said:
>
> She put her hands on her hips, her
> face thoughtful. Then she grabbed hold
> of the grab-rail on the side of the door-
> way, stepped into the bipedomobile.
> She wasn?t a tall girl, but she had to
> stoop.
>
> Her eyes were grave. Suddenly she
> pointed into the distance.
>
> ?Godwa te lele!?
> ?It?s all Sanskrit to me, Jamie,? he
> said sadly. ?They?ve sure done you up
> brown, haven?t they ? ^you?ve forgotten
> entirely, haven?t you? Well, if you want
> to go in that direction, okay. It?s as
> good as any, and maybe we?ll solve a
> few mysteries while we?re at it. We
> might even find out how to get your
> memory back again.?
>
> She smiled dazzlingly. She pointed
> again.
>
> This link will take you to the relevant page -
> https://archive.org/details/Amazing_Stories_v17n05_1943-05_cape1736/page/n99/mode/2up/search/sanskrit
>
> All the best,
>
> ????? ???????
> Patrick McCartney, PhD
> Research Affiliate - Organization for Identity and Cultural Development
> (OICD), Kyoto
> Research Associate - Nanzan University Anthropological Institute, Nagoya,
> Japan
> Visiting Fellow - South and South-east Asian Studies
> Department, Australian National University
> Member - South Asia Research Institute (SARI), Australian National
> University
>
> Skype / Zoom - psdmccartney
> Phone + Whatsapp + Line:  +61410644259
> Twitter - @psdmccartney @yogascapesinjap
>  Yogascapes in Japan <http://yogascapes.weebly.com/> Academia
> <https://patrickmccartney.academia.edu/> Linkedin
> <https://www.linkedin.com/profile/view?id=241756978&trk=nav_responsive_tab_profile>
>  Modern Yoga Research <http://www.modernyogaresearch.org/events/>
>
> *bodhap?rvam calema* ;-)
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>    -
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Tue, Mar 24, 2020 at 6:38 PM Matthew Kapstein via INDOLOGY <
> indology at list.indology.info> wrote:
>
>> This reminds me that one of my teachers, the great Prof. Padmanabh Jaini,
>> lost several students in the late 70s because the job market seemed
>> particularly bad. They switched to law and easily passed the special
>> examinations, the "Law Boards," for entering American Law Schools. Jaini
>> joked that the field could be saved and even expanded by converting
>> Sanskrit to a pre-law required course.
>>
>> Matthew Kapstein
>> Directeur d'?tudes, ?m?rite
>> Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes, Paris
>>
>> Numata Visiting Professor of Buddhist Studies,
>> The University of Chicago
>> ------------------------------
>> From: INDOLOGY <indology-bounces at list.indology.info> on behalf of
>> Christophe Vielle via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info>
>> Sent: Tuesday, March 24, 2020 4:32 AM
>> To: Tieken, H.J.H. <H.J.H.Tieken at hum.leidenuniv.nl>
>> Cc: indology <indology at list.indology.info>
>> Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] The study of Sanskrit as the epitome of
>> uselessness
>>
>> The Classicist Nuccio Ordine has published a stimulating (useful) essay
>> "De l'utilit? de l'inutile" (English translation: The Usefulness of the
>> Useless").
>> where Sanskrit studies, together with Classics, are given as an example
>> of (useful) usefulness, cf. p. 95 of the Engl. Transl.:
>> https://books.google.com/books?id=NCArDgAAQBAJ
>> <https://books.google.be/books?id=NCArDgAAQBAJ&pg=PA95&lpg=PA95&dq=nuccio+ordine+the+usefulness+of+the+useless+sanskrit&source=bl&ots=JmMiqWAORS&sig=ACfU3U0_SDl4ZpYaNsGhUnflgLpFvJYTDg&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwj-rMSM5bLoAhXEMewKHYVdDp4Q6AEwAXoECAoQAQ#v=onepage&q=nuccio%20ordine%20the%20usefulness%20of%20the%20useless%20sanskrit&f=false>
>> See also it in his oral presentations:
>>
>> https://uclouvain.be/en/research-institutes/incal/conference-du-pr-nuccio-ordine.html
>> Quel danger courons-nous actuellement ? Dans une universit?-entreprise,
>> quand un professeur de sanskrit aura deux ?tudiants, le Conseil
>> d?administration de l?Universit? pourra dire que celle-ci ne peut pas se
>> permettre le luxe de payer un professeur de sanskrit pour deux ?tudiants.
>> Demain, cela sera pour dix ?tudiants en grec, et apr?s-demain pour quinze
>> ?tudiants en latin.
>>
>> Le 24 mars 2020 ? 09:49, Tieken, H.J.H. via INDOLOGY <
>> indology at list.indology.info> a ?crit :
>>
>> Dear List members,
>> Last night I started reading Ever After by Graham Swift. On p. 3 of the
>> pocket edition (Vintage International) of 1993 we hear the protagonist
>> think:
>>
>> "Before they [academics] are sixty, they are emulating one of the many
>> varieties: ... the wide-eyed, latter-day infant, helpless in all mundane
>> matters but possessed of a profound understanding of Sanskrit."
>>
>> A few months ago I was reading Nader tot U (1969) by Gerard van 't Reve
>> gain. One of the characters has to fill in a profession on an official
>> paper. In the end he decides to fill in "indoloog", which is considered to
>> be better than "general in the Hungarian army" or "stratenmaker of zee"
>> (general dogsbody) (p. 113). There is some confusion if indoloog refers to
>> a civil servant in the Dutch Indies here (Indie verloren, rampspoed
>> geboren) or to an indologist, which is later resolved by remarks about
>> gurus and bhakti. I was amazed to see that I had bought the book in the
>> summer of 1970, just a few months before I started with the study of
>> Sanskrit.
>>
>> Are there more accidental references of this type to sanskritists or
>> indologists in literature?
>> (Leaving aside Lee Siegel's novel about Professor Roth being killed by
>> Monier-Williams Sanskrit dictionary.)
>>
>> With kind regards Herman
>>
>> Herman Tieken
>> Stationsweg 58
>> 2515 BP Den Haag
>> The Netherlands
>> 00 31 (0)70 2208127
>> website: hermantieken.com
>> <https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fhermantieken.com%2F&data=02%7C01%7Cchristophe.vielle%40uclouvain.be%7C2ebe73edfa3d487755a208d7cfd05574%7C7ab090d4fa2e4ecfbc7c4127b4d582ec%7C0%7C0%7C637206365997980559&sdata=knZj3KCyfVrhEl8UT1nRa97QamdqJ1dnMK8PR5N0U9A%3D&reserved=0>
>> _______________________________________________
>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
>> committee)
>>
>> https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Flistinfo.indology.info&amp;data=02%7C01%7Cchristophe.vielle%40uclouvain.be%7C2ebe73edfa3d487755a208d7cfd05574%7C7ab090d4fa2e4ecfbc7c4127b4d582ec%7C0%7C0%7C637206365998000549&amp;sdata=B9%2FyGKbIEipYn6NFLro1fpP9%2FGr6HMQ%2F4maeh1BWxaU%3D&amp;reserved=0
>>  (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe)
>>
>>
>> ???????????????????
>> Christophe Vielle <https://uclouvain.be/en/directories/christophe.vielle>
>> Louvain-la-Neuve
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
>> committee)
>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
>> unsubscribe)
>>
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
> committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
> unsubscribe)
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
> committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
> unsubscribe)
>


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From andra.kleb at gmail.com  Tue Mar 24 11:35:17 2020
From: andra.kleb at gmail.com (andra.kleb at gmail.com)
Date: Tue, 24 Mar 20 12:35:17 +0100
Subject: [INDOLOGY] The study of Sanskrit as the epitome of uselessness
In-Reply-To: <7F93934A-92EE-42D6-AC5D-0D8A820BF998@gmx.de>
Message-ID: <9aeeaa1f-68a1-4d35-a65c-c64d69ec8201@Spark>

?To study Sanskrit? (????? ????????) became a rather popular idiom (a kind of meme) in Russia in 2015, and it has been used since then?frequently?exactly as an epitome of a useless time-consuming and exhausting activity, which, in a long run,?may be?still more rewarding than engaging in Russian politics (especially as a member of the opposition). It was popularized by journalist Oleg Kashin, who has famously used this expression (the original wording was actually slightly different) in his debate with politician Alexey Navalny, who, in 2015, campaigned for opposition parties to participate at regional elections at any cost. See, for example, here or here. The original debate is here.

best,
Andrey
On Mar 24, 2020 11:57 +0100, Sven Sellmer via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info>, wrote:
> Dear All!
>
> One may also add a passage of Hermann Hesse's "Glasperlenspiel" here, though also rather in the category of useful uselessness:
>
> ? schon manche von ihnen haben ihr Leben an sehr entlegene und oft wunderliche Arbeiten gewendet, wie etwa jener Lodovicus crudelis, der in drei?igj?hriger Arbeit alle ?berlieferten alt?gyptischen Texte sowohl ins Griechiche wie ins Sanskrit ?bersetzt hat ?
>
> ? not few of them devoted their lives to very marginal and often rather strange occupations, like one Lodovicus crudelis, who in the course of thirty years translated all preserved Old Egyptian texts both into Greek and into Sanskrit ?
>
> Best wishes,
> Sven
>
> ****************************
> Sven Sellmer, PhD
> Adam Mickiewicz University
> Institute?of Oriental Studies
> Department of South Asian Studies
> ul. Grunwaldzka 6
> 60-780 Pozna?
> POLAND
> sven.sellmer at amu.edu.pl
>
> > Am 24.03.2020 um 11:24 schrieb patrick mccartney via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info>:
> >
> > Sort of related, on page 100 of chapter 5, of?Amazing Stories (1943) issue 17 no 05,?the following is said:
> > She put her hands on her hips, her
> > face thoughtful. Then she grabbed hold
> > of the grab-rail on the side of the door-
> > way, stepped into the bipedomobile.
> > She wasn?t a tall girl, but she had to
> > stoop.
> >
> > Her eyes were grave. Suddenly she
> > pointed into the distance.
> >
> > ?Godwa te lele!?
> >
> > ?It?s all Sanskrit to me, Jamie,? he
> > said sadly. ?They?ve sure done you up
> > brown, haven?t they ? ^you?ve forgotten
> > entirely, haven?t you? Well, if you want
> > to go in that direction, okay. It?s as
> > good as any, and maybe we?ll solve a
> > few mysteries while we?re at it. We
> > might even find out how to get your
> > memory back again.?
> >
> > She smiled dazzlingly. She pointed
> > again.
> > This link will take you to the relevant page -?https://archive.org/details/Amazing_Stories_v17n05_1943-05_cape1736/page/n99/mode/2up/search/sanskrit
> >
> > All the best,
> >
> > ?????????????
> > Patrick McCartney, PhD
> > Research Affiliate - Organization for Identity and Cultural Development (OICD), Kyoto
> > Research Associate - Nanzan University Anthropological Institute, Nagoya, Japan
> > Visiting Fellow - South and South-east Asian Studies Department,?Australian National University
> > Member - South Asia Research Institute (SARI), Australian National University
> >
> > Skype / Zoom - psdmccartney
> > Phone + Whatsapp + Line: ?+61410644259
> > Twitter - @psdmccartney @yogascapesinjap
> > ?Yogascapes in Japan?Academia?Linkedin?Modern Yoga Research
> >
> > bodhap?rvam calema ;-)
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ?
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > > On Tue, Mar 24, 2020 at 6:38 PM Matthew Kapstein via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info> wrote:
> > > > This reminds me that one of my teachers, the great Prof. Padmanabh Jaini, lost several students in the late 70s because the job market seemed particularly bad. They switched to law and easily passed the special examinations, the "Law Boards," for entering American Law Schools. Jaini joked that the field could be saved and even expanded by converting Sanskrit to a pre-law required course.
> > > >
> > > > Matthew Kapstein
> > > > Directeur d'?tudes, ?m?rite
> > > > Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes, Paris
> > > >
> > > > Numata Visiting Professor of Buddhist Studies,
> > > > The University of Chicago
> > > > From: INDOLOGY <indology-bounces at list.indology.info> on behalf of Christophe Vielle via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info>
> > > > Sent: Tuesday, March 24, 2020 4:32 AM
> > > > To: Tieken, H.J.H. <H.J.H.Tieken at hum.leidenuniv.nl>
> > > > Cc: indology <indology at list.indology.info>
> > > > Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] The study of Sanskrit as the epitome of uselessness
> > > >
> > > > The Classicist Nuccio Ordine has published a stimulating (useful) essay "De l'utilit? de l'inutile" (English translation: The Usefulness of the Useless").
> > > > where Sanskrit studies, together with Classics, are given as an example of (useful) usefulness, cf. p. 95 of the Engl. Transl.:
> > > > https://books.google.com/books?id=NCArDgAAQBAJ
> > > > See also it in his oral presentations:
> > > > https://uclouvain.be/en/research-institutes/incal/conference-du-pr-nuccio-ordine.html
> > > > Quel danger courons-nous actuellement ? Dans une universit?-entreprise, quand un professeur de sanskrit aura deux ?tudiants, le Conseil d?administration de l?Universit? pourra dire que celle-ci ne peut pas se permettre le luxe de payer un professeur de sanskrit pour deux ?tudiants. Demain, cela sera pour dix ?tudiants en grec, et apr?s-demain pour quinze ?tudiants en latin.
> > > >
> > > > > Le 24 mars 2020 ? 09:49, Tieken, H.J.H. via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info> a ?crit :
> > > > >
> > > > > Dear List members,
> > > > > Last night I started reading Ever After by Graham Swift. On p. 3 of the pocket edition (Vintage International) of 1993 we hear the protagonist think:
> > > > >
> > > > > "Before they [academics] are sixty, they are emulating one of the many varieties: ... the wide-eyed,?latter-day infant, helpless in all mundane matters but possessed of a profound understanding of Sanskrit."
> > > > >
> > > > > A few months ago I was reading Nader tot U (1969) by Gerard van 't Reve gain. One of the characters has to fill in a profession on an official paper. In the end he decides to fill in "indoloog", which is considered to be better than "general in the?Hungarian army"?or "stratenmaker of zee" (general dogsbody) (p. 113). There is some confusion if indoloog refers to a civil servant in the Dutch Indies here (Indie verloren, rampspoed geboren) or to an indologist, which is later resolved by remarks about gurus and bhakti. I was amazed to see that I had bought the book in the summer of?1970, just a few?months before I started with the study of Sanskrit.
> > > > >
> > > > > Are there more accidental references of this type to sanskritists or indologists in literature?
> > > > > (Leaving aside Lee Siegel's novel about Professor Roth being killed by Monier-Williams Sanskrit dictionary.)
> > > > >
> > > > > With kind regards Herman
> > > > >
> > > > > Herman Tieken
> > > > > Stationsweg 58
> > > > > 2515 BP Den Haag
> > > > > The Netherlands
> > > > > 00 31 (0)70 2208127
> > > > > website:?hermantieken.com
> > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > INDOLOGY mailing list
> > > > > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> > > > > indology-owner at list.indology.info?(messages to the list's managing committee)
> > > > > https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Flistinfo.indology.info&amp;data=02%7C01%7Cchristophe.vielle%40uclouvain.be%7C2ebe73edfa3d487755a208d7cfd05574%7C7ab090d4fa2e4ecfbc7c4127b4d582ec%7C0%7C0%7C637206365998000549&amp;sdata=B9%2FyGKbIEipYn6NFLro1fpP9%2FGr6HMQ%2F4maeh1BWxaU%3D&amp;reserved=0?(where you can change your list options or unsubscribe)
> > > >
> > > > ???????????????????
> > > > Christophe Vielle
> > > > Louvain-la-Neuve
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > INDOLOGY mailing list
> > > > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> > > > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee)
> > > > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe)
> > _______________________________________________
> > INDOLOGY mailing list
> > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee)
> > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe)
>
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe)


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From mmdesh at umich.edu  Tue Mar 24 13:41:52 2020
From: mmdesh at umich.edu (Madhav Deshpande)
Date: Tue, 24 Mar 20 06:41:52 -0700
Subject: [INDOLOGY] The study of Sanskrit as the epitome of uselessness
In-Reply-To: <9aeeaa1f-68a1-4d35-a65c-c64d69ec8201@Spark>
Message-ID: <CAB3-dzc9v6wMF6uwOUiqD28QS-=J7BvmSJHC2QLD4=+OimzyvA@mail.gmail.com>

Here is my description of what we as Indoloogs do:

???????? ?????: ???????????? ????? ????????: ?

??????? ????????????? ?? ????????????: ??


Hope it makes you laugh at ourselves!


Madhav M. Deshpande
Professor Emeritus, Sanskrit and Linguistics
University of Michigan, Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA
Senior Fellow, Oxford Center for Hindu Studies

[Residence: Campbell, California, USA]


On Tue, Mar 24, 2020 at 4:56 AM Andrey Klebanov via INDOLOGY <
indology at list.indology.info> wrote:

> ?To study Sanskrit? (????? ????????) became a rather popular idiom (a kind
> of meme) in Russia in 2015, and it has been used since then frequently exactly
> as an epitome of a useless time-consuming and exhausting activity, which,
> in a long run, may be still more rewarding than engaging in Russian
> politics (especially as a member of the opposition). It was popularized by
> journalist Oleg Kashin <http://kashin.guru>, who has famously used this
> expression (the original wording was actually slightly different) in his
> debate with politician Alexey Navalny, who, in 2015, campaigned for
> opposition parties to participate at regional elections at any cost. See,
> for example, here
> <http://lurkmore.to/%D0%9E%D0%BB%D0%B5%D0%B3_%D0%9A%D0%B0%D1%88%D0%B8%D0%BD#.D0.9C.D0.B5.D0.BC.D1.8B>
> or here <https://echo.msk.ru/programs/klinch/1742522-echo/>. The original
> debate is here <https://echo.msk.ru/programs/klinch/1592616-echo/>.
>
> best,
> Andrey
> On Mar 24, 2020 11:57 +0100, Sven Sellmer via INDOLOGY <
> indology at list.indology.info>, wrote:
>
> Dear All!
>
> One may also add a passage of Hermann Hesse's "Glasperlenspiel" here,
> though also rather in the category of useful uselessness:
>
> ? schon manche von ihnen haben ihr Leben an sehr entlegene und oft
> wunderliche Arbeiten gewendet, wie etwa jener Lodovicus crudelis, der in
> drei?igj?hriger Arbeit alle ?berlieferten alt?gyptischen Texte sowohl ins
> Griechiche wie ins Sanskrit ?bersetzt hat ?
>
> ? not few of them devoted their lives to very marginal and often rather
> strange occupations, like one Lodovicus crudelis, who in the course of
> thirty years translated all preserved Old Egyptian texts both into Greek
> and into Sanskrit ?
>
> Best wishes,
> Sven
>
> ****************************
> Sven Sellmer, PhD
> Adam Mickiewicz University
> Institute of Oriental Studies
> Department of South Asian Studies
> ul. Grunwaldzka 6
> 60-780 Pozna?
> POLAND
> sven.sellmer at amu.edu.pl
>
> Am 24.03.2020 um 11:24 schrieb patrick mccartney via INDOLOGY <
> indology at list.indology.info>:
>
> Sort of related, on page 100 of chapter 5, of Amazing Stories (1943)
> issue 17 no 05, the following is said:
>
> She put her hands on her hips, her
> face thoughtful. Then she grabbed hold
> of the grab-rail on the side of the door-
> way, stepped into the bipedomobile.
> She wasn?t a tall girl, but she had to
> stoop.
>
> Her eyes were grave. Suddenly she
> pointed into the distance.
>
> ?Godwa te lele!?
> ?It?s all Sanskrit to me, Jamie,? he
> said sadly. ?They?ve sure done you up
> brown, haven?t they ? ^you?ve forgotten
> entirely, haven?t you? Well, if you want
> to go in that direction, okay. It?s as
> good as any, and maybe we?ll solve a
> few mysteries while we?re at it. We
> might even find out how to get your
> memory back again.?
>
> She smiled dazzlingly. She pointed
> again.
>
> This link will take you to the relevant page -
> https://archive.org/details/Amazing_Stories_v17n05_1943-05_cape1736/page/n99/mode/2up/search/sanskrit
>
> All the best,
>
> ????? ???????
> Patrick McCartney, PhD
> Research Affiliate - Organization for Identity and Cultural Development
> (OICD), Kyoto
> Research Associate - Nanzan University Anthropological Institute, Nagoya,
> Japan
> Visiting Fellow - South and South-east Asian Studies
> Department, Australian National University
> Member - South Asia Research Institute (SARI), Australian National
> University
>
> Skype / Zoom - psdmccartney
> Phone + Whatsapp + Line:  +61410644259
> Twitter - @psdmccartney @yogascapesinjap
>  Yogascapes in Japan <http://yogascapes.weebly.com/> Academia
> <https://patrickmccartney.academia.edu/> Linkedin
> <https://www.linkedin.com/profile/view?id=241756978&trk=nav_responsive_tab_profile>
>  Modern Yoga Research <http://www.modernyogaresearch.org/events/>
>
> *bodhap?rvam calema* ;-)
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>    -
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Tue, Mar 24, 2020 at 6:38 PM Matthew Kapstein via INDOLOGY <
> indology at list.indology.info> wrote:
>
>> This reminds me that one of my teachers, the great Prof. Padmanabh Jaini,
>> lost several students in the late 70s because the job market seemed
>> particularly bad. They switched to law and easily passed the special
>> examinations, the "Law Boards," for entering American Law Schools. Jaini
>> joked that the field could be saved and even expanded by converting
>> Sanskrit to a pre-law required course.
>>
>> Matthew Kapstein
>> Directeur d'?tudes, ?m?rite
>> Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes, Paris
>>
>> Numata Visiting Professor of Buddhist Studies,
>> The University of Chicago
>> ------------------------------
>> From: INDOLOGY <indology-bounces at list.indology.info> on behalf of
>> Christophe Vielle via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info>
>> Sent: Tuesday, March 24, 2020 4:32 AM
>> To: Tieken, H.J.H. <H.J.H.Tieken at hum.leidenuniv.nl>
>> Cc: indology <indology at list.indology.info>
>> Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] The study of Sanskrit as the epitome of
>> uselessness
>>
>> The Classicist Nuccio Ordine has published a stimulating (useful) essay
>> "De l'utilit? de l'inutile" (English translation: The Usefulness of the
>> Useless").
>> where Sanskrit studies, together with Classics, are given as an example
>> of (useful) usefulness, cf. p. 95 of the Engl. Transl.:
>> https://books.google.com/books?id=NCArDgAAQBAJ
>> <https://books.google.be/books?id=NCArDgAAQBAJ&pg=PA95&lpg=PA95&dq=nuccio+ordine+the+usefulness+of+the+useless+sanskrit&source=bl&ots=JmMiqWAORS&sig=ACfU3U0_SDl4ZpYaNsGhUnflgLpFvJYTDg&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwj-rMSM5bLoAhXEMewKHYVdDp4Q6AEwAXoECAoQAQ#v=onepage&q=nuccio%20ordine%20the%20usefulness%20of%20the%20useless%20sanskrit&f=false>
>> See also it in his oral presentations:
>>
>> https://uclouvain.be/en/research-institutes/incal/conference-du-pr-nuccio-ordine.html
>> Quel danger courons-nous actuellement ? Dans une universit?-entreprise,
>> quand un professeur de sanskrit aura deux ?tudiants, le Conseil
>> d?administration de l?Universit? pourra dire que celle-ci ne peut pas se
>> permettre le luxe de payer un professeur de sanskrit pour deux ?tudiants.
>> Demain, cela sera pour dix ?tudiants en grec, et apr?s-demain pour quinze
>> ?tudiants en latin.
>>
>> Le 24 mars 2020 ? 09:49, Tieken, H.J.H. via INDOLOGY <
>> indology at list.indology.info> a ?crit :
>>
>> Dear List members,
>> Last night I started reading Ever After by Graham Swift. On p. 3 of the
>> pocket edition (Vintage International) of 1993 we hear the protagonist
>> think:
>>
>> "Before they [academics] are sixty, they are emulating one of the many
>> varieties: ... the wide-eyed, latter-day infant, helpless in all mundane
>> matters but possessed of a profound understanding of Sanskrit."
>>
>> A few months ago I was reading Nader tot U (1969) by Gerard van 't Reve
>> gain. One of the characters has to fill in a profession on an official
>> paper. In the end he decides to fill in "indoloog", which is considered to
>> be better than "general in the Hungarian army" or "stratenmaker of zee"
>> (general dogsbody) (p. 113). There is some confusion if indoloog refers to
>> a civil servant in the Dutch Indies here (Indie verloren, rampspoed
>> geboren) or to an indologist, which is later resolved by remarks about
>> gurus and bhakti. I was amazed to see that I had bought the book in the
>> summer of 1970, just a few months before I started with the study of
>> Sanskrit.
>>
>> Are there more accidental references of this type to sanskritists or
>> indologists in literature?
>> (Leaving aside Lee Siegel's novel about Professor Roth being killed by
>> Monier-Williams Sanskrit dictionary.)
>>
>> With kind regards Herman
>>
>> Herman Tieken
>> Stationsweg 58
>> 2515 BP Den Haag
>> The Netherlands
>> 00 31 (0)70 2208127
>> website: hermantieken.com
>> <https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fhermantieken.com%2F&data=02%7C01%7Cchristophe.vielle%40uclouvain.be%7C2ebe73edfa3d487755a208d7cfd05574%7C7ab090d4fa2e4ecfbc7c4127b4d582ec%7C0%7C0%7C637206365997980559&sdata=knZj3KCyfVrhEl8UT1nRa97QamdqJ1dnMK8PR5N0U9A%3D&reserved=0>
>> _______________________________________________
>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
>> committee)
>>
>> https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Flistinfo.indology.info&amp;data=02%7C01%7Cchristophe.vielle%40uclouvain.be%7C2ebe73edfa3d487755a208d7cfd05574%7C7ab090d4fa2e4ecfbc7c4127b4d582ec%7C0%7C0%7C637206365998000549&amp;sdata=B9%2FyGKbIEipYn6NFLro1fpP9%2FGr6HMQ%2F4maeh1BWxaU%3D&amp;reserved=0
>>  (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe)
>>
>>
>> ???????????????????
>> Christophe Vielle <https://uclouvain.be/en/directories/christophe.vielle>
>> Louvain-la-Neuve
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
>> committee)
>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
>> unsubscribe)
>>
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
> committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
> unsubscribe)
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
> committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
> unsubscribe)
>
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
> committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
> unsubscribe)
>


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From jpo at austin.utexas.edu  Tue Mar 24 14:11:16 2020
From: jpo at austin.utexas.edu (Olivelle, J P)
Date: Tue, 24 Mar 20 14:11:16 +0000
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Nick Allen
In-Reply-To: <7C381B74-3813-4668-81E5-EFB35265B36E@uclouvain.be>
Message-ID: <8058AA4A-4E1A-42C2-94C3-B694A642640F@austin.utexas.edu>

So sorry to hear of Nick?s passing. Came to know him well when I was a visiting fellow at Wolfson many years ago.

Patrick




On Mar 24, 2020, at 3:35 AM, Christophe Vielle via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info<mailto:indology at list.indology.info>> wrote:

Dear List,
Nicholas (Nick) Allen passed away on last Saturday.
https://www.wolfson.ox.ac.uk/content/1138-dr-nicholas-allen
https://www.isca.ox.ac.uk/people/dr-nick-allen
A Floril?ge of his comparative works was issued at the end of the last year: Arjuna-Odysseus: Shared Heritage in Indian and Greek Epic, London: Routledge, 2019.

TABLE OF CONTENTS:

List of figures.
List of tables.
Acknowledgements.
List of abbreviations.
Signs.
Introduction
1. A starting point
2. Five relationships
3. Homer?s simile
4. Hero and horse
5. Yoga
6. Crocodiles and nymphs
7. Monkey and dog
8. Durga? and Athena
9. Draupadi? and Penelope
10. Bhi?sm a and Sarpedon
11. Hesiod?s Succession Myth
12. Five elements
13. Rings and rotations
14. Achilles? shield
15. Dume?zil and Dumont
16. Yudhis hira and Agamemnon
17. Kauravas and suitors
18. Hanging over abyss
19. Gods descend to battlefield 20. Heroes and supercategories
21. Cyavana and Prometheus 22. Telemachy 23. Dro a and Chryses
24. As?vattha?man and the Wooden Horse. Bibliography.
Index.

???????????????????
Christophe Vielle<https://uclouvain.be/en/directories/christophe.vielle>
Louvain-la-Neuve



<ABSTRACTS FOR ALLEN'S BOOK.pdf>_______________________________________________
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From Joseph.Walser at tufts.edu  Tue Mar 24 14:29:46 2020
From: Joseph.Walser at tufts.edu (Walser, Joseph)
Date: Tue, 24 Mar 20 14:29:46 +0000
Subject: [INDOLOGY] The study of Sanskrit as the epitome of uselessness
In-Reply-To: <CAB3-dzc9v6wMF6uwOUiqD28QS-=J7BvmSJHC2QLD4=+OimzyvA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <E5F571B94D36DB4AA048E0CF279CFC700142C272E3@tabvmexdag1mb03.tufts.ad.tufts.edu>

One of my favorites, although I am having difficulty finding the source, is: "A knowledge of Sanskrit is of little use to a man trapped in a sewer." The internet tells me that this is attributed to Tom Weller, but I suspect that he got it from someone else.
Greetings from the sewer.

-j



Joseph Walser

Associate Professor

Department of Religion

Tufts University

________________________________
From: INDOLOGY [indology-bounces at list.indology.info] on behalf of Madhav Deshpande via INDOLOGY [indology at list.indology.info]
Sent: Tuesday, March 24, 2020 9:41 AM
To: Andrey Klebanov
Cc: indology
Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] The study of Sanskrit as the epitome of uselessness

Here is my description of what we as Indoloogs do:


???????? ?????: ???????????? ????? ????????: ?

??????? ????????????? ?? ????????????: ??


Hope it makes you laugh at ourselves!


Madhav M. Deshpande
Professor Emeritus, Sanskrit and Linguistics
University of Michigan, Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA
Senior Fellow, Oxford Center for Hindu Studies

[Residence: Campbell, California, USA]


On Tue, Mar 24, 2020 at 4:56 AM Andrey Klebanov via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info<mailto:indology at list.indology.info>> wrote:
?To study Sanskrit? (????? ????????) became a rather popular idiom (a kind of meme) in Russia in 2015, and it has been used since then frequently exactly as an epitome of a useless time-consuming and exhausting activity, which, in a long run, may be still more rewarding than engaging in Russian politics (especially as a member of the opposition). It was popularized by journalist Oleg Kashin<http://kashin.guru>, who has famously used this expression (the original wording was actually slightly different) in his debate with politician Alexey Navalny, who, in 2015, campaigned for opposition parties to participate at regional elections at any cost. See, for example, here<http://lurkmore.to/%D0%9E%D0%BB%D0%B5%D0%B3_%D0%9A%D0%B0%D1%88%D0%B8%D0%BD#.D0.9C.D0.B5.D0.BC.D1.8B> or here<https://echo.msk.ru/programs/klinch/1742522-echo/>. The original debate is here<https://echo.msk.ru/programs/klinch/1592616-echo/>.

best,
Andrey
On Mar 24, 2020 11:57 +0100, Sven Sellmer via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info<mailto:indology at list.indology.info>>, wrote:
Dear All!

One may also add a passage of Hermann Hesse's "Glasperlenspiel" here, though also rather in the category of useful uselessness:

? schon manche von ihnen haben ihr Leben an sehr entlegene und oft wunderliche Arbeiten gewendet, wie etwa jener Lodovicus crudelis, der in drei?igj?hriger Arbeit alle ?berlieferten alt?gyptischen Texte sowohl ins Griechiche wie ins Sanskrit ?bersetzt hat ?

? not few of them devoted their lives to very marginal and often rather strange occupations, like one Lodovicus crudelis, who in the course of thirty years translated all preserved Old Egyptian texts both into Greek and into Sanskrit ?

Best wishes,
Sven

****************************
Sven Sellmer, PhD
Adam Mickiewicz University
Institute of Oriental Studies
Department of South Asian Studies
ul. Grunwaldzka 6
60-780 Pozna?
POLAND
sven.sellmer at amu.edu.pl<mailto:sven.sellmer at amu.edu.pl>

Am 24.03.2020 um 11:24 schrieb patrick mccartney via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info<mailto:indology at list.indology.info>>:

Sort of related, on page 100 of chapter 5, of Amazing Stories (1943) issue 17 no 05, the following is said:

She put her hands on her hips, her
face thoughtful. Then she grabbed hold
of the grab-rail on the side of the door-
way, stepped into the bipedomobile.
She wasn?t a tall girl, but she had to
stoop.

Her eyes were grave. Suddenly she
pointed into the distance.

?Godwa te lele!?

?It?s all Sanskrit to me, Jamie,? he
said sadly. ?They?ve sure done you up
brown, haven?t they ? ^you?ve forgotten
entirely, haven?t you? Well, if you want
to go in that direction, okay. It?s as
good as any, and maybe we?ll solve a
few mysteries while we?re at it. We
might even find out how to get your
memory back again.?

She smiled dazzlingly. She pointed
again.

This link will take you to the relevant page - https://archive.org/details/Amazing_Stories_v17n05_1943-05_cape1736/page/n99/mode/2up/search/sanskrit

All the best,

?????????????
Patrick McCartney, PhD
Research Affiliate - Organization for Identity and Cultural Development (OICD), Kyoto
Research Associate - Nanzan University Anthropological Institute, Nagoya, Japan
Visiting Fellow - South and South-east Asian Studies Department, Australian National University
Member - South Asia Research Institute (SARI), Australian National University

Skype / Zoom - psdmccartney
Phone + Whatsapp + Line:  +61410644259
Twitter - @psdmccartney @yogascapesinjap
 Yogascapes in Japan<http://yogascapes.weebly.com/> Academia<https://patrickmccartney.academia.edu/> Linkedin<https://www.linkedin.com/profile/view?id=241756978&trk=nav_responsive_tab_profile> Modern Yoga Research<http://www.modernyogaresearch.org/events/>

bodhap?rvam calema ;-)

[https://docs.google.com/uc?export=download&id=19R8Cikbi8EiQ5UYFEBkervRVqXt-_Plr&revid=0B0ONiOO-EUx-TW1CYjlVQzhaeDVReUhFRzdubWdBLzRxaTlvPQ]





  *









On Tue, Mar 24, 2020 at 6:38 PM Matthew Kapstein via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info<mailto:indology at list.indology.info>> wrote:
This reminds me that one of my teachers, the great Prof. Padmanabh Jaini, lost several students in the late 70s because the job market seemed particularly bad. They switched to law and easily passed the special examinations, the "Law Boards," for entering American Law Schools. Jaini joked that the field could be saved and even expanded by converting Sanskrit to a pre-law required course.

Matthew Kapstein
Directeur d'?tudes, ?m?rite
Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes, Paris

Numata Visiting Professor of Buddhist Studies,
The University of Chicago
________________________________
From: INDOLOGY <indology-bounces at list.indology.info<mailto:indology-bounces at list.indology.info>> on behalf of Christophe Vielle via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info<mailto:indology at list.indology.info>>
Sent: Tuesday, March 24, 2020 4:32 AM
To: Tieken, H.J.H. <H.J.H.Tieken at hum.leidenuniv.nl<mailto:H.J.H.Tieken at hum.leidenuniv.nl>>
Cc: indology <indology at list.indology.info<mailto:indology at list.indology.info>>
Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] The study of Sanskrit as the epitome of uselessness

The Classicist Nuccio Ordine has published a stimulating (useful) essay "De l'utilit? de l'inutile" (English translation: The Usefulness of the Useless").
where Sanskrit studies, together with Classics, are given as an example of (useful) usefulness, cf. p. 95 of the Engl. Transl.:
https://books.google.com/books?id=NCArDgAAQBAJ<https://books.google.be/books?id=NCArDgAAQBAJ&pg=PA95&lpg=PA95&dq=nuccio+ordine+the+usefulness+of+the+useless+sanskrit&source=bl&ots=JmMiqWAORS&sig=ACfU3U0_SDl4ZpYaNsGhUnflgLpFvJYTDg&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwj-rMSM5bLoAhXEMewKHYVdDp4Q6AEwAXoECAoQAQ#v=onepage&q=nuccio%20ordine%20the%20usefulness%20of%20the%20useless%20sanskrit&f=false>
See also it in his oral presentations:
https://uclouvain.be/en/research-institutes/incal/conference-du-pr-nuccio-ordine.html
Quel danger courons-nous actuellement ? Dans une universit?-entreprise, quand un professeur de sanskrit aura deux ?tudiants, le Conseil d?administration de l?Universit? pourra dire que celle-ci ne peut pas se permettre le luxe de payer un professeur de sanskrit pour deux ?tudiants. Demain, cela sera pour dix ?tudiants en grec, et apr?s-demain pour quinze ?tudiants en latin.

Le 24 mars 2020 ? 09:49, Tieken, H.J.H. via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info<mailto:indology at list.indology.info>> a ?crit :

Dear List members,
Last night I started reading Ever After by Graham Swift. On p. 3 of the pocket edition (Vintage International) of 1993 we hear the protagonist think:

"Before they [academics] are sixty, they are emulating one of the many varieties: ... the wide-eyed, latter-day infant, helpless in all mundane matters but possessed of a profound understanding of Sanskrit."

A few months ago I was reading Nader tot U (1969) by Gerard van 't Reve gain. One of the characters has to fill in a profession on an official paper. In the end he decides to fill in "indoloog", which is considered to be better than "general in the Hungarian army" or "stratenmaker of zee" (general dogsbody) (p. 113). There is some confusion if indoloog refers to a civil servant in the Dutch Indies here (Indie verloren, rampspoed geboren) or to an indologist, which is later resolved by remarks about gurus and bhakti. I was amazed to see that I had bought the book in the summer of 1970, just a few months before I started with the study of Sanskrit.

Are there more accidental references of this type to sanskritists or indologists in literature?
(Leaving aside Lee Siegel's novel about Professor Roth being killed by Monier-Williams Sanskrit dictionary.)

With kind regards Herman

Herman Tieken
Stationsweg 58
2515 BP Den Haag
The Netherlands
00 31 (0)70 2208127
website: hermantieken.com<https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fhermantieken.com%2F&data=02%7C01%7Cchristophe.vielle%40uclouvain.be%7C2ebe73edfa3d487755a208d7cfd05574%7C7ab090d4fa2e4ecfbc7c4127b4d582ec%7C0%7C0%7C637206365997980559&sdata=knZj3KCyfVrhEl8UT1nRa97QamdqJ1dnMK8PR5N0U9A%3D&reserved=0>
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???????????????????
Christophe Vielle<https://uclouvain.be/en/directories/christophe.vielle>
Louvain-la-Neuve



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From joduquette at gmail.com  Tue Mar 24 14:30:15 2020
From: joduquette at gmail.com (Jonathan Duquette)
Date: Tue, 24 Mar 20 14:30:15 +0000
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Nick Allen
In-Reply-To: <8058AA4A-4E1A-42C2-94C3-B694A642640F@austin.utexas.edu>
Message-ID: <CAFtTCfd+KSprPGHAkoSNWB23=8bOY4PX_-N5dCHKVvDp4q29Xw@mail.gmail.com>

I am very touched by Nick's passing. I spent numerous lunches and dinners
talking with him over matters of interest to both of us at Wolfson College.
I remember him especially for his great curiosity (and humility): despite
his advanced age, he was attending nearly every conference on nearly every
subject in Oxford. His grand-son was attending the same school as my son,
and we often saw Nick coming to pick him up - he loved his family tenderly.

Jonathan

On Tue, 24 Mar 2020 at 14:12, Olivelle, J P via INDOLOGY <
indology at list.indology.info> wrote:

> So sorry to hear of Nick?s passing. Came to know him well when I was a
> visiting fellow at Wolfson many years ago.
>
> Patrick
>
>
>
>
> On Mar 24, 2020, at 3:35 AM, Christophe Vielle via INDOLOGY <
> indology at list.indology.info> wrote:
>
> Dear List,
> Nicholas (Nick) Allen passed away on last Saturday.
> https://www.wolfson.ox.ac.uk/content/1138-dr-nicholas-allen
> https://www.isca.ox.ac.uk/people/dr-nick-allen
> A Floril?ge of his comparative works was issued at the end of the last
> year: *Arjuna-Odysseus: Shared Heritage in Indian and Greek Epic*,
> London: Routledge, 2019.
>
> TABLE OF CONTENTS:
>
> List of figures.
> List of tables.
> Acknowledgements.
> List of abbreviations.
> Signs.
> Introduction
> 1. A starting point
> 2. Five relationships
> 3. Homer?s simile
> 4. Hero and horse
> 5. Yoga
> 6. Crocodiles and nymphs
> 7. Monkey and dog
> 8. Durg? and Athena
> 9. Draupad? and Penelope
> 10. Bh?sm a and Sarpedon
> 11. Hesiod?s Succession Myth
> 12. Five elements
> 13. Rings and rotations
> 14. Achilles? shield
> 15. Dum?zil and Dumont
> 16. Yudhis hira and Agamemnon
> 17. Kauravas and suitors
> 18. Hanging over abyss
> 19. Gods descend to battlefield 20. Heroes and supercategories
> 21. Cyavana and Prometheus 22. Telemachy 23. Dro a and Chryses
> 24. A?vatth?man and the Wooden Horse. Bibliography.
> Index.
> ???????????????????
> Christophe Vielle <https://uclouvain.be/en/directories/christophe.vielle>
> Louvain-la-Neuve
>
>
>
> <ABSTRACTS FOR ALLEN'S BOOK.pdf>
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
> committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
> unsubscribe)
>
> This message is from an external sender. Learn more about why this <<
> matters at https://links.utexas.edu/rtyclf.                        <<
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
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> committee)
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> unsubscribe)
>


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From hegartyjm at googlemail.com  Tue Mar 24 14:38:02 2020
From: hegartyjm at googlemail.com (James Hegarty)
Date: Tue, 24 Mar 20 14:38:02 +0000
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Nick Allen
In-Reply-To: <8058AA4A-4E1A-42C2-94C3-B694A642640F@austin.utexas.edu>
Message-ID: <3162CCFC-A94F-4446-99F1-F0702C1C74B3@googlemail.com>

Nick was a wonderful friend. I met him in Pune as a PhD student in 2001. He wondered up to me at the Bhandarkar and, with his characteristic high-pitched hum, said ?Mmmmm, is that Soren Sorensen?s Index of Names to the Mahabharata?? A friendship commenced then and there (how could it not?).

Nick was an inspiration to me as both a person and as an intellectual; he was unworried by the fashions of the day, inclusive in his interests, and could walk up a mountain like a sprightly goat after good pasture.

I will miss him.

James

> On 24 Mar 2020, at 14:11, Olivelle, J P via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info> wrote:
> 
> So sorry to hear of Nick?s passing. Came to know him well when I was a visiting fellow at Wolfson many years ago. 
> 
> Patrick
> 
> 
> 
> 
>> On Mar 24, 2020, at 3:35 AM, Christophe Vielle via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info <mailto:indology at list.indology.info>> wrote:
>> 
>> Dear List,
>> Nicholas (Nick) Allen passed away on last Saturday.
>> https://www.wolfson.ox.ac.uk/content/1138-dr-nicholas-allen <https://www.wolfson.ox.ac.uk/content/1138-dr-nicholas-allen>
>> https://www.isca.ox.ac.uk/people/dr-nick-allen <https://www.isca.ox.ac.uk/people/dr-nick-allen>
>> A Floril?ge of his comparative works was issued at the end of the last year: Arjuna-Odysseus: Shared Heritage in Indian and Greek Epic, London: Routledge, 2019.
>> TABLE OF CONTENTS:
>> 
>> List of figures.
>> List of tables.
>> Acknowledgements.
>> List of abbreviations.
>> Signs.
>> Introduction
>> 1. A starting point
>> 2. Five relationships
>> 3. Homer?s simile
>> 4. Hero and horse
>> 5. Yoga
>> 6. Crocodiles and nymphs
>> 7. Monkey and dog
>> 8. Durga? and Athena
>> 9. Draupadi? and Penelope
>> 10. Bhi?sm a and Sarpedon
>> 11. Hesiod?s Succession Myth
>> 12. Five elements
>> 13. Rings and rotations
>> 14. Achilles? shield
>> 15. Dume?zil and Dumont
>> 16. Yudhis hira and Agamemnon
>> 17. Kauravas and suitors
>> 18. Hanging over abyss
>> 19. Gods descend to battlefield 20. Heroes and supercategories
>> 21. Cyavana and Prometheus 22. Telemachy 23. Dro a and Chryses
>> 24. As?vattha?man and the Wooden Horse. Bibliography.
>> Index. 
>> 
>> ???????????????????
>> Christophe Vielle <https://uclouvain.be/en/directories/christophe.vielle>
>> Louvain-la-Neuve
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> <ABSTRACTS FOR ALLEN'S BOOK.pdf>_______________________________________________
>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info <mailto:INDOLOGY at list.indology.info>
>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee)
>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe)
>>>> This message is from an external sender. Learn more about why this <<
>>>> matters at https://links.utexas.edu/rtyclf.                        <<
> 
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe)



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From pcbisschop at googlemail.com  Tue Mar 24 14:48:52 2020
From: pcbisschop at googlemail.com (peter bisschop)
Date: Tue, 24 Mar 20 15:48:52 +0100
Subject: =?utf-8?Q?[INDOLOGY]_Skandapur=C4=81=E1=B9=87a_volume_III?=
Message-ID: <CACDreE_dx5c+KLnsxJoAVrqrA3YCx3rhuEjYWRGFv6dpzVVuZw@mail.gmail.com>

Dear Colleagues,

Some of you may be interested to know that the critical edition of
*Skandapur??a* volume III (the Vindhyav?sin? Cycle), edited by Yuko
Yokochi, has now been made available in Open Access. The PDF of the book
can be downloaded from Brill's website:
https://brill.com/view/title/24008?rskey=LGG9P9&result=1

Best wishes,
Peter Bisschop


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From j.jurewicz at uw.edu.pl  Tue Mar 24 15:10:33 2020
From: j.jurewicz at uw.edu.pl (Joanna Jurewicz)
Date: Tue, 24 Mar 20 16:10:33 +0100
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Nick Allen
In-Reply-To: <3162CCFC-A94F-4446-99F1-F0702C1C74B3@googlemail.com>
Message-ID: <CAAPrgbo=_-VQ8tC9uGoNqKQE_Wk-KPnAmj+rNe9uanR_j+-iew@mail.gmail.com>

Oh, what a said news!

Nick  was such a wise, and, at the same time, kind and
straightforward person.

I will miss him and his work.

Joanna Jurewicz



---

Prof. dr hab. Joanna Jurewicz

Katedra Azji Po?udniowej /Chair of South Asia

Wydzia? Orientalistyczny / Faculty of Oriental Studies

Uniwersytet Warszawski /University of Warsaw

ul. Krakowskie Przedmie?cie 26/28

00-927 Warszawa , Poland

Department of Linguistics and Modern Languages

College of Human Sciences

UNISA

Pretoria, RSA

Member of Academia Europaea

https://uw.academia.edu/JoannaJurewicz


wt., 24 mar 2020 o 15:38 James Hegarty via INDOLOGY <
indology at list.indology.info> napisa?(a):

> Nick was a wonderful friend. I met him in Pune as a PhD student in 2001.
> He wondered up to me at the Bhandarkar and, with his characteristic
> high-pitched hum, said ?Mmmmm, is that Soren Sorensen?s *Index of Names
> to the Mahabharata*?? A friendship commenced then and there (how could it
> not?).
>
> Nick was an inspiration to me as both a person and as an intellectual; he
> was unworried by the fashions of the day, inclusive in his interests, and
> could walk up a mountain like a sprightly goat after good pasture.
>
> I will miss him.
>
> James
>
> On 24 Mar 2020, at 14:11, Olivelle, J P via INDOLOGY <
> indology at list.indology.info> wrote:
>
> So sorry to hear of Nick?s passing. Came to know him well when I was a
> visiting fellow at Wolfson many years ago.
>
> Patrick
>
>
>
>
> On Mar 24, 2020, at 3:35 AM, Christophe Vielle via INDOLOGY <
> indology at list.indology.info> wrote:
>
> Dear List,
> Nicholas (Nick) Allen passed away on last Saturday.
> https://www.wolfson.ox.ac.uk/content/1138-dr-nicholas-allen
> https://www.isca.ox.ac.uk/people/dr-nick-allen
> A Floril?ge of his comparative works was issued at the end of the last
> year: *Arjuna-Odysseus: Shared Heritage in Indian and Greek Epic*,
> London: Routledge, 2019.
>
> TABLE OF CONTENTS:
>
> List of figures.
> List of tables.
> Acknowledgements.
> List of abbreviations.
> Signs.
> Introduction
> 1. A starting point
> 2. Five relationships
> 3. Homer?s simile
> 4. Hero and horse
> 5. Yoga
> 6. Crocodiles and nymphs
> 7. Monkey and dog
> 8. Durg? and Athena
> 9. Draupad? and Penelope
> 10. Bh?sm a and Sarpedon
> 11. Hesiod?s Succession Myth
> 12. Five elements
> 13. Rings and rotations
> 14. Achilles? shield
> 15. Dum?zil and Dumont
> 16. Yudhis hira and Agamemnon
> 17. Kauravas and suitors
> 18. Hanging over abyss
> 19. Gods descend to battlefield 20. Heroes and supercategories
> 21. Cyavana and Prometheus 22. Telemachy 23. Dro a and Chryses
> 24. A?vatth?man and the Wooden Horse. Bibliography.
> Index.
> ???????????????????
> Christophe Vielle <https://uclouvain.be/en/directories/christophe.vielle>
> Louvain-la-Neuve
>
>
>
> <ABSTRACTS FOR ALLEN'S BOOK.pdf>
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
> committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
> unsubscribe)
>
> This message is from an external sender. Learn more about why this <<
> matters at https://links.utexas.edu/rtyclf.                        <<
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
> committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
> unsubscribe)
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
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> committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
> unsubscribe)
>


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From wujastyk at gmail.com  Tue Mar 24 15:56:15 2020
From: wujastyk at gmail.com (Dominik Wujastyk)
Date: Tue, 24 Mar 20 09:56:15 -0600
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Nick Allen
In-Reply-To: <7C381B74-3813-4668-81E5-EFB35265B36E@uclouvain.be>
Message-ID: <CAKdt-Ce-LkipfJN2KVMQZDJ6DcstQvXpVkoFKEDrs3_s72itsQ@mail.gmail.com>

Oh, I'm very sorry to hear this sad news.  Nick was a major part of Indian
studies at Oxford for half a century.  He always pushed the boundaries of
our understanding of ancient Indian epics and culture, a unique voice.

I send my condolences to his friends, colleagues and students.

Dominik Wujastyk


--
Professor Dominik Wujastyk
<https://www.ualberta.ca/arts/about/people-collection/dominik-wujastyk>
,

Singhmar Chair in Classical Indian Society and Polity
,

Department of History and Classics <http://historyandclassics.ualberta.ca/>
,
University of Alberta, Canada
.

South Asia at the U of A:

sas.ualberta.ca



On Tue, 24 Mar 2020 at 02:36, Christophe Vielle via INDOLOGY <
indology at list.indology.info> wrote:

> Dear List,
> Nicholas (Nick) Allen passed away on last Saturday.
> https://www.wolfson.ox.ac.uk/content/1138-dr-nicholas-allen
> https://www.isca.ox.ac.uk/people/dr-nick-allen
> A Floril?ge of his comparative works was issued at the end of the last
> year: *Arjuna-Odysseus: Shared Heritage in Indian and Greek Epic*,
> London: Routledge, 2019.
>
> TABLE OF CONTENTS:
>
> List of figures.
> List of tables.
> Acknowledgements.
> List of abbreviations.
> Signs.
> Introduction
> 1. A starting point
> 2. Five relationships
> 3. Homer?s simile
> 4. Hero and horse
> 5. Yoga
> 6. Crocodiles and nymphs
> 7. Monkey and dog
> 8. Durga? and Athena
> 9. Draupadi? and Penelope
> 10. Bhi?sm a and Sarpedon
> 11. Hesiod?s Succession Myth
> 12. Five elements
> 13. Rings and rotations
> 14. Achilles? shield
> 15. Dume?zil and Dumont
> 16. Yudhis hira and Agamemnon
> 17. Kauravas and suitors
> 18. Hanging over abyss
> 19. Gods descend to battlefield 20. Heroes and supercategories
> 21. Cyavana and Prometheus 22. Telemachy 23. Dro a and Chryses
> 24. As?vattha?man and the Wooden Horse. Bibliography.
> Index.
> ???????????????????
> Christophe Vielle <https://uclouvain.be/en/directories/christophe.vielle>
> Louvain-la-Neuve
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
> committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
> unsubscribe)
>


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From jpo at austin.utexas.edu  Tue Mar 24 17:10:08 2020
From: jpo at austin.utexas.edu (Olivelle, J P)
Date: Tue, 24 Mar 20 17:10:08 +0000
Subject: [INDOLOGY] 1st century BCE
Message-ID: <CEBC59FE-201A-44D7-B28B-7AE4DC636129@austin.utexas.edu>

I got a message from a colleague working on environmental geography in Egypt and East Asia about a monsoon failure. He says:

we're looking at a massive monsoon failure with a decadal impact- we clearly see it in Egypt and in East Asia. Our model makes it look like India, or other parts of the Indian Ocean, would have been a total disaster...would love to be able to see what historical/archaeological evidence might tell us.

I wonder whether anyone has information on this, and whether it might event be reflected in cultural remains, including texts.

Thanks.

Patrick




From andrew.ollett at gmail.com  Tue Mar 24 17:18:53 2020
From: andrew.ollett at gmail.com (Andrew Ollett)
Date: Tue, 24 Mar 20 12:18:53 -0500
Subject: [INDOLOGY] 1st century BCE
In-Reply-To: <CEBC59FE-201A-44D7-B28B-7AE4DC636129@austin.utexas.edu>
Message-ID: <CAANHO16sRoyUHwRg9EY99voEX=CpgEMYgSKMz+3FayJ+D7zxiQ@mail.gmail.com>

I would be interested in this as well. The so-called
Br?hma?atissa/Br?hma?at?ya famine (b?mi?itiy? s?ya) is supposed to have
happened in the reign of Va??ag?ma?i, in the first century BCE, and it
seems to have been the famine with the biggest imprint on Sri Lankan
historical memory, to judge from later story collections. (As far as I know
the Mah?va?sa doesn't mention it.)

On Tue, Mar 24, 2020 at 12:10 PM Olivelle, J P via INDOLOGY <
indology at list.indology.info> wrote:

> I got a message from a colleague working on environmental geography in
> Egypt and East Asia about a monsoon failure. He says:
>
> we're looking at a massive monsoon failure with a decadal impact- we
> clearly see it in Egypt and in East Asia. Our model makes it look like
> India, or other parts of the Indian Ocean, would have been a total
> disaster...would love to be able to see what historical/archaeological
> evidence might tell us.
>
> I wonder whether anyone has information on this, and whether it might
> event be reflected in cultural remains, including texts.
>
> Thanks.
>
> Patrick
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
> committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
> unsubscribe)
>


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From dharmaprof108 at yahoo.com  Tue Mar 24 18:10:30 2020
From: dharmaprof108 at yahoo.com (Jeffery Long)
Date: Tue, 24 Mar 20 18:10:30 +0000
Subject: [INDOLOGY] The study of Sanskrit as the epitome of uselessness
In-Reply-To: <E5F571B94D36DB4AA048E0CF279CFC700142C272E3@tabvmexdag1mb03.tufts.ad.tufts.edu>
Message-ID: <107665108.1412362.1585073430665@mail.yahoo.com>

On the popular culture side, the late, great Lou Reed writes in "What's Good (The Thesis)," "Life's like Sanskrit read to a pony."
Cheers,Jeffery D. Long?Professor of Religion & Asian StudiesElizabethtown College


Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPad


On Tuesday, March 24, 2020, 10:29 AM, Walser, Joseph via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info> wrote:

One of my favorites, although I am having difficulty finding the source, is: "A knowledge of Sanskrit is of little use to a man trapped in a sewer." The internet tells me that this is attributed to Tom Weller, but I suspect that he got it from someone else.Greetings from the sewer.

-j


Joseph Walser

Associate Professor

Department of Religion

Tufts University
From: INDOLOGY [indology-bounces at list.indology.info] on behalf of Madhav Deshpande via INDOLOGY [indology at list.indology.info]
Sent: Tuesday, March 24, 2020 9:41 AM
To: Andrey Klebanov
Cc: indology
Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] The study of Sanskrit as the epitome of uselessness

Here is my description of what we as Indoloogs do:

???????? ?????: ???????????? ????? ????????: ?

??????? ????????????? ?? ????????????: ??




Hope it makes you laugh at ourselves!



Madhav M. DeshpandeProfessor Emeritus, Sanskrit and LinguisticsUniversity of Michigan, Ann Arbor, Michigan, USASenior Fellow, Oxford Center for Hindu Studies

[Residence: Campbell, California, USA]


On Tue, Mar 24, 2020 at 4:56 AM Andrey Klebanov via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info> wrote:

?To study Sanskrit? (????? ????????) became a rather popular idiom (a kind of meme) in Russia in 2015, and it has been used since then?frequently?exactly as an epitome of a useless time-consuming and exhausting activity, which, in a long run,?may be?still more rewarding than engaging in Russian politics (especially as a member of the opposition). It was popularized by journalistOleg Kashin, who has famously used this expression (the original wording was actually slightly different) in his debate with politician Alexey Navalny, who, in 2015, campaigned for opposition parties to participate at regional elections at any cost. See, for example, here or here. The original debate is here.?
best,
AndreyOn Mar 24, 2020 11:57 +0100, Sven Sellmer via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info>, wrote:

Dear All!
One may also add a passage of Hermann Hesse's "Glasperlenspiel" here, though also rather in the category of useful uselessness:
? schon manche von ihnen haben ihr Leben an sehr entlegene und oft wunderliche Arbeiten gewendet, wie etwa jener Lodovicus crudelis, der in drei?igj?hriger Arbeit alle ?berlieferten alt?gyptischen Texte sowohl ins Griechiche wie ins Sanskrit ?bersetzt hat ?
? not few of them devoted their lives to very marginal and often rather strange occupations, like one Lodovicus crudelis, who in the course of thirty years translated all preserved Old Egyptian texts both into Greek and into Sanskrit ??
Best wishes,Sven
****************************
Sven Sellmer, PhD
Adam Mickiewicz University
Institute?of Oriental Studies
Department of South Asian Studies
ul. Grunwaldzka 6
60-780 Pozna?
POLAND
sven.sellmer at amu.edu.pl


Am 24.03.2020 um 11:24 schrieb patrick mccartney via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info>:
Sort of related, on page 100 of chapter 5, of?Amazing Stories (1943) issue 17 no 05,?the following is said:?She put her hands on her hips, her  
face thoughtful. Then she grabbed hold  
of the grab-rail on the side of the door-  
way, stepped into the bipedomobile.  
She wasn?t a tall girl, but she had to  
stoop.  

Her eyes were grave. Suddenly she  
pointed into the distance.  

?Godwa te lele!?  

?It?s all Sanskrit to me, Jamie,? he  
said sadly. ?They?ve sure done you up  
brown, haven?t they ? ^you?ve forgotten  
entirely, haven?t you? Well, if you want  
to go in that direction, okay. It?s as  
good as any, and maybe we?ll solve a  
few mysteries while we?re at it. We  
might even find out how to get your  
memory back again.?  

She smiled dazzlingly. She pointed  
again.This link will take you to the relevant page -?https://archive.org/details/Amazing_Stories_v17n05_1943-05_cape1736/page/n99/mode/2up/search/sanskrit
All the best,

?????????????
Patrick McCartney, PhDResearch Affiliate - Organization for Identity and Cultural Development (OICD), Kyoto
Research Associate - Nanzan University Anthropological Institute, Nagoya, JapanVisiting Fellow - South and South-east Asian Studies Department,?Australian National UniversityMember - South Asia Research Institute (SARI), Australian National University
Skype / Zoom - psdmccartneyPhone + Whatsapp + Line: ?+61410644259Twitter - @psdmccartney @yogascapesinjap
?Yogascapes in Japan?Academia?Linkedin?Modern Yoga Research
bodhap?rvam calema ;-)

?



   
   - 









On Tue, Mar 24, 2020 at 6:38 PM Matthew Kapstein via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info> wrote:

This reminds me that one of my teachers, the great Prof. Padmanabh Jaini, lost several students in the late 70s because the job market seemed particularly bad. They switched to law and easily passed the special examinations, the "Law Boards," for entering American Law Schools. Jaini joked that the field could be saved and even expanded by converting Sanskrit to a pre-law required course.

Matthew Kapstein
Directeur d'?tudes,?m?rite
Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes, Paris

Numata Visiting Professor of Buddhist Studies,
The University of Chicago
From: INDOLOGY <indology-bounces at list.indology.info> on behalf of Christophe Vielle via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info>
Sent: Tuesday, March 24, 2020 4:32 AM
To: Tieken, H.J.H. <H.J.H.Tieken at hum.leidenuniv.nl>
Cc: indology <indology at list.indology.info>
Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] The study of Sanskrit as the epitome of uselessness?The Classicist Nuccio Ordine has published a stimulating (useful) essay "De l'utilit? de l'inutile" (English translation: The Usefulness of the Useless").where Sanskrit studies, together with Classics, are given as an example of (useful) usefulness, cf. p. 95 of the Engl. Transl.:https://books.google.com/books?id=NCArDgAAQBAJSee also it in his oral presentations:https://uclouvain.be/en/research-institutes/incal/conference-du-pr-nuccio-ordine.htmlQuel danger courons-nous actuellement ? Dans une universit?-entreprise, quand un professeur de sanskrit aura deux ?tudiants, le Conseil d?administration de l?Universit? pourra dire que celle-ci ne peut pas se permettre le luxe de payer un professeur de sanskrit pour deux ?tudiants. Demain, cela sera pour dix ?tudiants en grec, et apr?s-demain pour quinze ?tudiants en latin.

Le 24 mars 2020 ? 09:49, Tieken, H.J.H. via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info> a ?crit :
Dear List members,Last night I started reading Ever After by Graham Swift. On p. 3 of the pocket edition (Vintage International) of 1993 we hear the protagonist think:
"Before they [academics] are sixty, they are emulating one of the many varieties: ... the wide-eyed,?latter-day infant, helpless in all mundane matters but possessed of a profound understanding of Sanskrit."
A few months ago I was reading Nader tot U (1969) by Gerard van 't Reve gain. One of the characters has to fill in a profession on an official paper. In the end he decides to fill in "indoloog", which is considered to be better than "general in the?Hungarian army"?or "stratenmaker of zee" (general dogsbody) (p. 113). There is some confusion if indoloog refers to a civil servant in the Dutch Indies here (Indie verloren, rampspoed geboren) or to an indologist, which is later resolved by remarks about gurus and bhakti. I was amazed to see that I had bought the book in the summer of?1970, just a few?months before I started with the study of Sanskrit.
Are there more accidental references of this type to sanskritists or indologists in literature?(Leaving aside Lee Siegel's novel about Professor Roth being killed by Monier-Williams Sanskrit dictionary.)
With kind regards Herman
Herman TiekenStationsweg 582515 BP Den HaagThe Netherlands00 31 (0)70 2208127
website:?hermantieken.com_______________________________________________
INDOLOGY mailing list
INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
indology-owner at list.indology.info?(messages to the list's managing committee)
https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Flistinfo.indology.info&amp;data=02%7C01%7Cchristophe.vielle%40uclouvain.be%7C2ebe73edfa3d487755a208d7cfd05574%7C7ab090d4fa2e4ecfbc7c4127b4d582ec%7C0%7C0%7C637206365998000549&amp;sdata=B9%2FyGKbIEipYn6NFLro1fpP9%2FGr6HMQ%2F4maeh1BWxaU%3D&amp;reserved=0?(where you can change your list options or unsubscribe)

???????????????????
Christophe Vielle
Louvain-la-Neuve


_______________________________________________
INDOLOGY mailing list
INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee)
http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe)

_______________________________________________
INDOLOGY mailing list
INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee)
http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe)


_______________________________________________
INDOLOGY mailing list
INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee)
http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe)

_______________________________________________
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http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe)

_______________________________________________
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From Joseph.Walser at tufts.edu  Tue Mar 24 18:16:04 2020
From: Joseph.Walser at tufts.edu (Walser, Joseph)
Date: Tue, 24 Mar 20 18:16:04 +0000
Subject: [INDOLOGY] The study of Sanskrit as the epitome of uselessness
In-Reply-To: <107665108.1412362.1585073430665@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <E5F571B94D36DB4AA048E0CF279CFC700142C273C5@tabvmexdag1mb03.tufts.ad.tufts.edu>

Andrew Bird's song "Ten-You-Us", presumably about academics and their obscurities, begins:
"Tenuous at best was all he had to say when pressed about the rest of it
The world that is
>From proto-Sanskrit Minoans to porto-centric Lisboans
Greek Cypriots and and Hobis-hots
Who hang around in ports a lot."
-j


Joseph Walser

Associate Professor

Department of Religion

Tufts University

________________________________
From: Jeffery Long [dharmaprof108 at yahoo.com]
Sent: Tuesday, March 24, 2020 2:10 PM
To: Walser, Joseph; Madhav Deshpande; Andrey Klebanov
Cc: indology
Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] The study of Sanskrit as the epitome of uselessness

On the popular culture side, the late, great Lou Reed writes in "What's Good (The Thesis)," "Life's like Sanskrit read to a pony."

Cheers,
Jeffery D. Long
Professor of Religion & Asian Studies
Elizabethtown College


Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPad<https://overview.mail.yahoo.com/?.src=iOS>


On Tuesday, March 24, 2020, 10:29 AM, Walser, Joseph via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info> wrote:

One of my favorites, although I am having difficulty finding the source, is: "A knowledge of Sanskrit is of little use to a man trapped in a sewer." The internet tells me that this is attributed to Tom Weller, but I suspect that he got it from someone else.
Greetings from the sewer.

-j



Joseph Walser

Associate Professor

Department of Religion

Tufts University

________________________________
From: INDOLOGY [indology-bounces at list.indology.info] on behalf of Madhav Deshpande via INDOLOGY [indology at list.indology.info]
Sent: Tuesday, March 24, 2020 9:41 AM
To: Andrey Klebanov
Cc: indology
Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] The study of Sanskrit as the epitome of uselessness

Here is my description of what we as Indoloogs do:


???????? ?????: ???????????? ????? ????????: ?

??????? ????????????? ?? ????????????: ??


Hope it makes you laugh at ourselves!


Madhav M. Deshpande
Professor Emeritus, Sanskrit and Linguistics
University of Michigan, Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA
Senior Fellow, Oxford Center for Hindu Studies

[Residence: Campbell, California, USA]


On Tue, Mar 24, 2020 at 4:56 AM Andrey Klebanov via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info<mailto:indology at list.indology.info>> wrote:
?To study Sanskrit? (????? ????????) became a rather popular idiom (a kind of meme) in Russia in 2015, and it has been used since then frequently exactly as an epitome of a useless time-consuming and exhausting activity, which, in a long run, may be still more rewarding than engaging in Russian politics (especially as a member of the opposition). It was popularized by journalist Oleg Kashin<http://kashin.guru>, who has famously used this expression (the original wording was actually slightly different) in his debate with politician Alexey Navalny, who, in 2015, campaigned for opposition parties to participate at regional elections at any cost. See, for example, here<http://lurkmore.to/%D0%9E%D0%BB%D0%B5%D0%B3_%D0%9A%D0%B0%D1%88%D0%B8%D0%BD#.D0.9C.D0.B5.D0.BC.D1.8B> or here<https://echo.msk.ru/programs/klinch/1742522-echo/>. The original debate is here<https://echo.msk.ru/programs/klinch/1592616-echo/>.

best,
Andrey
On Mar 24, 2020 11:57 +0100, Sven Sellmer via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info<mailto:indology at list.indology.info>>, wrote:
Dear All!

One may also add a passage of Hermann Hesse's "Glasperlenspiel" here, though also rather in the category of useful uselessness:

? schon manche von ihnen haben ihr Leben an sehr entlegene und oft wunderliche Arbeiten gewendet, wie etwa jener Lodovicus crudelis, der in drei?igj?hriger Arbeit alle ?berlieferten alt?gyptischen Texte sowohl ins Griechiche wie ins Sanskrit ?bersetzt hat ?

? not few of them devoted their lives to very marginal and often rather strange occupations, like one Lodovicus crudelis, who in the course of thirty years translated all preserved Old Egyptian texts both into Greek and into Sanskrit ?

Best wishes,
Sven

****************************
Sven Sellmer, PhD
Adam Mickiewicz University
Institute of Oriental Studies
Department of South Asian Studies
ul. Grunwaldzka 6
60-780 Pozna?
POLAND
sven.sellmer at amu.edu.pl<mailto:sven.sellmer at amu.edu.pl>

Am 24.03.2020 um 11:24 schrieb patrick mccartney via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info<mailto:indology at list.indology.info>>:

Sort of related, on page 100 of chapter 5, of Amazing Stories (1943) issue 17 no 05, the following is said:

She put her hands on her hips, her
face thoughtful. Then she grabbed hold
of the grab-rail on the side of the door-
way, stepped into the bipedomobile.
She wasn?t a tall girl, but she had to
stoop.

Her eyes were grave. Suddenly she
pointed into the distance.

?Godwa te lele!?

?It?s all Sanskrit to me, Jamie,? he
said sadly. ?They?ve sure done you up
brown, haven?t they ? ^you?ve forgotten
entirely, haven?t you? Well, if you want
to go in that direction, okay. It?s as
good as any, and maybe we?ll solve a
few mysteries while we?re at it. We
might even find out how to get your
memory back again.?

She smiled dazzlingly. She pointed
again.

This link will take you to the relevant page - https://archive.org/details/Amazing_Stories_v17n05_1943-05_cape1736/page/n99/mode/2up/search/sanskrit

All the best,

?????????????
Patrick McCartney, PhD
Research Affiliate - Organization for Identity and Cultural Development (OICD), Kyoto
Research Associate - Nanzan University Anthropological Institute, Nagoya, Japan
Visiting Fellow - South and South-east Asian Studies Department, Australian National University
Member - South Asia Research Institute (SARI), Australian National University

Skype / Zoom - psdmccartney
Phone + Whatsapp + Line:  +61410644259<tel:+61410644259>
Twitter - @psdmccartney @yogascapesinjap
 Yogascapes in Japan<http://yogascapes.weebly.com/> Academia<https://patrickmccartney.academia.edu/> Linkedin<https://www.linkedin.com/profile/view?id=241756978&trk=nav_responsive_tab_profile> Modern Yoga Research<http://www.modernyogaresearch.org/events/>

bodhap?rvam calema ;-)

[https://docs.google.com/uc?export=download&id=19R8Cikbi8EiQ5UYFEBkervRVqXt-_Plr&revid=0B0ONiOO-EUx-TW1CYjlVQzhaeDVReUhFRzdubWdBLzRxaTlvPQ]





  *









On Tue, Mar 24, 2020 at 6:38 PM Matthew Kapstein via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info<mailto:indology at list.indology.info>> wrote:
This reminds me that one of my teachers, the great Prof. Padmanabh Jaini, lost several students in the late 70s because the job market seemed particularly bad. They switched to law and easily passed the special examinations, the "Law Boards," for entering American Law Schools. Jaini joked that the field could be saved and even expanded by converting Sanskrit to a pre-law required course.

Matthew Kapstein
Directeur d'?tudes, ?m?rite
Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes, Paris

Numata Visiting Professor of Buddhist Studies,
The University of Chicago
________________________________
From: INDOLOGY <indology-bounces at list.indology.info<mailto:indology-bounces at list.indology.info>> on behalf of Christophe Vielle via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info<mailto:indology at list.indology.info>>
Sent: Tuesday, March 24, 2020 4:32 AM
To: Tieken, H.J.H. <H.J.H.Tieken at hum.leidenuniv.nl<mailto:H.J.H.Tieken at hum.leidenuniv.nl>>
Cc: indology <indology at list.indology.info<mailto:indology at list.indology.info>>
Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] The study of Sanskrit as the epitome of uselessness

The Classicist Nuccio Ordine has published a stimulating (useful) essay "De l'utilit? de l'inutile" (English translation: The Usefulness of the Useless").
where Sanskrit studies, together with Classics, are given as an example of (useful) usefulness, cf. p. 95 of the Engl. Transl.:
https://books.google.com/books?id=NCArDgAAQBAJ<https://books.google.be/books?id=NCArDgAAQBAJ&pg=PA95&lpg=PA95&dq=nuccio+ordine+the+usefulness+of+the+useless+sanskrit&source=bl&ots=JmMiqWAORS&sig=ACfU3U0_SDl4ZpYaNsGhUnflgLpFvJYTDg&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwj-rMSM5bLoAhXEMewKHYVdDp4Q6AEwAXoECAoQAQ#v=onepage&q=nuccio%20ordine%20the%20usefulness%20of%20the%20useless%20sanskrit&f=false>
See also it in his oral presentations:
https://uclouvain.be/en/research-institutes/incal/conference-du-pr-nuccio-ordine.html
Quel danger courons-nous actuellement ? Dans une universit?-entreprise, quand un professeur de sanskrit aura deux ?tudiants, le Conseil d?administration de l?Universit? pourra dire que celle-ci ne peut pas se permettre le luxe de payer un professeur de sanskrit pour deux ?tudiants. Demain, cela sera pour dix ?tudiants en grec, et apr?s-demain pour quinze ?tudiants en latin.

Le 24 mars 2020 ? 09:49, Tieken, H.J.H. via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info<mailto:indology at list.indology.info>> a ?crit :

Dear List members,
Last night I started reading Ever After by Graham Swift. On p. 3 of the pocket edition (Vintage International) of 1993 we hear the protagonist think:

"Before they [academics] are sixty, they are emulating one of the many varieties: ... the wide-eyed, latter-day infant, helpless in all mundane matters but possessed of a profound understanding of Sanskrit."

A few months ago I was reading Nader tot U (1969) by Gerard van 't Reve gain. One of the characters has to fill in a profession on an official paper. In the end he decides to fill in "indoloog", which is considered to be better than "general in the Hungarian army" or "stratenmaker of zee" (general dogsbody) (p. 113). There is some confusion if indoloog refers to a civil servant in the Dutch Indies here (Indie verloren, rampspoed geboren) or to an indologist, which is later resolved by remarks about gurus and bhakti. I was amazed to see that I had bought the book in the summer of 1970, just a few months before I started with the study of Sanskrit.

Are there more accidental references of this type to sanskritists or indologists in literature?
(Leaving aside Lee Siegel's novel about Professor Roth being killed by Monier-Williams Sanskrit dictionary.)

With kind regards Herman

Herman Tieken
Stationsweg 58
2515 BP Den Haag
The Netherlands
00 31 (0)70 2208127<tel:00%2031%2070%202208127>
website: hermantieken.com<https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fhermantieken.com%2F&data=02%7C01%7Cchristophe.vielle%40uclouvain.be%7C2ebe73edfa3d487755a208d7cfd05574%7C7ab090d4fa2e4ecfbc7c4127b4d582ec%7C0%7C0%7C637206365997980559&sdata=knZj3KCyfVrhEl8UT1nRa97QamdqJ1dnMK8PR5N0U9A%3D&reserved=0>
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???????????????????
Christophe Vielle<https://uclouvain.be/en/directories/christophe.vielle>
Louvain-la-Neuve



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From jknutson at hawaii.edu  Tue Mar 24 18:16:28 2020
From: jknutson at hawaii.edu (Jesse Knutson)
Date: Tue, 24 Mar 20 08:16:28 -1000
Subject: [INDOLOGY] The study of Sanskrit as the epitome of uselessness
In-Reply-To: <E5F571B94D36DB4AA048E0CF279CFC700142C272E3@tabvmexdag1mb03.tufts.ad.tufts.edu>
Message-ID: <CAAiVBEVe92W4sSxPdimxBBoyti5FBt=50kik0fPd4S=o7M2amg@mail.gmail.com>

Speaking of my dear friend Lee Siegel: he often tells the story that he
only decided to study Sanskrit after hearing a speech of Richard Nixon the
California senator (before he became president), in which the latter
quipped that the University of California's budget should be slashed
because 'instead of doing anything useful, they are studying things like
Sanskrit'.

On Tue, Mar 24, 2020, 4:30 AM Walser, Joseph via INDOLOGY <
indology at list.indology.info> wrote:

> One of my favorites, although I am having difficulty finding the source,
> is: "A knowledge of Sanskrit is of little use to a man trapped in a sewer."
> The internet tells me that this is attributed to Tom Weller, but I suspect
> that he got it from someone else.
> Greetings from the sewer.
>
> -j
>
>
> Joseph Walser
>
> Associate Professor
>
> Department of Religion
>
> Tufts University
> ------------------------------
> *From:* INDOLOGY [indology-bounces at list.indology.info] on behalf of
> Madhav Deshpande via INDOLOGY [indology at list.indology.info]
> *Sent:* Tuesday, March 24, 2020 9:41 AM
> *To:* Andrey Klebanov
> *Cc:* indology
> *Subject:* Re: [INDOLOGY] The study of Sanskrit as the epitome of
> uselessness
>
> Here is my description of what we as Indoloogs do:
>
> ???????? ?????: ???????????? ????? ????????: ?
>
> ??????? ????????????? ?? ????????????: ??
>
>
> Hope it makes you laugh at ourselves!
>
>
> Madhav M. Deshpande
> Professor Emeritus, Sanskrit and Linguistics
> University of Michigan, Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA
> Senior Fellow, Oxford Center for Hindu Studies
>
> [Residence: Campbell, California, USA]
>
>
> On Tue, Mar 24, 2020 at 4:56 AM Andrey Klebanov via INDOLOGY <
> indology at list.indology.info> wrote:
>
>> ?To study Sanskrit? (????? ????????) became a rather popular idiom (a
>> kind of meme) in Russia in 2015, and it has been used since then
>> frequently exactly as an epitome of a useless time-consuming and
>> exhausting activity, which, in a long run, may be still more rewarding
>> than engaging in Russian politics (especially as a member of the
>> opposition). It was popularized by journalist Oleg Kashin
>> <http://kashin.guru>, who has famously used this expression (the
>> original wording was actually slightly different) in his debate with
>> politician Alexey Navalny, who, in 2015, campaigned for opposition parties
>> to participate at regional elections at any cost. See, for example, here
>> <http://lurkmore.to/%D0%9E%D0%BB%D0%B5%D0%B3_%D0%9A%D0%B0%D1%88%D0%B8%D0%BD#.D0.9C.D0.B5.D0.BC.D1.8B>
>> or here <https://echo.msk.ru/programs/klinch/1742522-echo/>. The
>> original debate is here
>> <https://echo.msk.ru/programs/klinch/1592616-echo/>.
>>
>> best,
>> Andrey
>> On Mar 24, 2020 11:57 +0100, Sven Sellmer via INDOLOGY <
>> indology at list.indology.info>, wrote:
>>
>> Dear All!
>>
>> One may also add a passage of Hermann Hesse's "Glasperlenspiel" here,
>> though also rather in the category of useful uselessness:
>>
>> ? schon manche von ihnen haben ihr Leben an sehr entlegene und oft
>> wunderliche Arbeiten gewendet, wie etwa jener Lodovicus crudelis, der in
>> drei?igj?hriger Arbeit alle ?berlieferten alt?gyptischen Texte sowohl ins
>> Griechiche wie ins Sanskrit ?bersetzt hat ?
>>
>> ? not few of them devoted their lives to very marginal and often rather
>> strange occupations, like one Lodovicus crudelis, who in the course of
>> thirty years translated all preserved Old Egyptian texts both into Greek
>> and into Sanskrit ?
>>
>> Best wishes,
>> Sven
>>
>> ****************************
>> Sven Sellmer, PhD
>> Adam Mickiewicz University
>> Institute of Oriental Studies
>> Department of South Asian Studies
>> ul. Grunwaldzka 6
>> 60-780 Pozna?
>> POLAND
>> sven.sellmer at amu.edu.pl
>>
>> Am 24.03.2020 um 11:24 schrieb patrick mccartney via INDOLOGY <
>> indology at list.indology.info>:
>>
>> Sort of related, on page 100 of chapter 5, of Amazing Stories (1943)
>> issue 17 no 05, the following is said:
>>
>> She put her hands on her hips, her
>> face thoughtful. Then she grabbed hold
>> of the grab-rail on the side of the door-
>> way, stepped into the bipedomobile.
>> She wasn?t a tall girl, but she had to
>> stoop.
>>
>> Her eyes were grave. Suddenly she
>> pointed into the distance.
>>
>> ?Godwa te lele!?
>> ?It?s all Sanskrit to me, Jamie,? he
>> said sadly. ?They?ve sure done you up
>> brown, haven?t they ? ^you?ve forgotten
>> entirely, haven?t you? Well, if you want
>> to go in that direction, okay. It?s as
>> good as any, and maybe we?ll solve a
>> few mysteries while we?re at it. We
>> might even find out how to get your
>> memory back again.?
>>
>> She smiled dazzlingly. She pointed
>> again.
>>
>> This link will take you to the relevant page -
>> https://archive.org/details/Amazing_Stories_v17n05_1943-05_cape1736/page/n99/mode/2up/search/sanskrit
>>
>> All the best,
>>
>> ????? ???????
>> Patrick McCartney, PhD
>> Research Affiliate - Organization for Identity and Cultural Development
>> (OICD), Kyoto
>> Research Associate - Nanzan University Anthropological Institute, Nagoya,
>> Japan
>> Visiting Fellow - South and South-east Asian Studies
>> Department, Australian National University
>> Member - South Asia Research Institute (SARI), Australian National
>> University
>>
>> Skype / Zoom - psdmccartney
>> Phone + Whatsapp + Line:  +61410644259
>> Twitter - @psdmccartney @yogascapesinjap
>>  Yogascapes in Japan <http://yogascapes.weebly.com/> Academia
>> <https://patrickmccartney.academia.edu/> Linkedin
>> <https://www.linkedin.com/profile/view?id=241756978&trk=nav_responsive_tab_profile>
>>  Modern Yoga Research <http://www.modernyogaresearch.org/events/>
>>
>> *bodhap?rvam calema* ;-)
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>    -
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Mar 24, 2020 at 6:38 PM Matthew Kapstein via INDOLOGY <
>> indology at list.indology.info> wrote:
>>
>>> This reminds me that one of my teachers, the great Prof. Padmanabh
>>> Jaini, lost several students in the late 70s because the job market seemed
>>> particularly bad. They switched to law and easily passed the special
>>> examinations, the "Law Boards," for entering American Law Schools. Jaini
>>> joked that the field could be saved and even expanded by converting
>>> Sanskrit to a pre-law required course.
>>>
>>> Matthew Kapstein
>>> Directeur d'?tudes, ?m?rite
>>> Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes, Paris
>>>
>>> Numata Visiting Professor of Buddhist Studies,
>>> The University of Chicago
>>> ------------------------------
>>> From: INDOLOGY <indology-bounces at list.indology.info> on behalf of
>>> Christophe Vielle via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info>
>>> Sent: Tuesday, March 24, 2020 4:32 AM
>>> To: Tieken, H.J.H. <H.J.H.Tieken at hum.leidenuniv.nl>
>>> Cc: indology <indology at list.indology.info>
>>> Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] The study of Sanskrit as the epitome of
>>> uselessness
>>>
>>> The Classicist Nuccio Ordine has published a stimulating (useful) essay
>>> "De l'utilit? de l'inutile" (English translation: The Usefulness of the
>>> Useless").
>>> where Sanskrit studies, together with Classics, are given as an example
>>> of (useful) usefulness, cf. p. 95 of the Engl. Transl.:
>>> https://books.google.com/books?id=NCArDgAAQBAJ
>>> <https://books.google.be/books?id=NCArDgAAQBAJ&pg=PA95&lpg=PA95&dq=nuccio+ordine+the+usefulness+of+the+useless+sanskrit&source=bl&ots=JmMiqWAORS&sig=ACfU3U0_SDl4ZpYaNsGhUnflgLpFvJYTDg&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwj-rMSM5bLoAhXEMewKHYVdDp4Q6AEwAXoECAoQAQ#v=onepage&q=nuccio%20ordine%20the%20usefulness%20of%20the%20useless%20sanskrit&f=false>
>>> See also it in his oral presentations:
>>>
>>> https://uclouvain.be/en/research-institutes/incal/conference-du-pr-nuccio-ordine.html
>>> Quel danger courons-nous actuellement ? Dans une universit?-entreprise,
>>> quand un professeur de sanskrit aura deux ?tudiants, le Conseil
>>> d?administration de l?Universit? pourra dire que celle-ci ne peut pas se
>>> permettre le luxe de payer un professeur de sanskrit pour deux ?tudiants.
>>> Demain, cela sera pour dix ?tudiants en grec, et apr?s-demain pour quinze
>>> ?tudiants en latin.
>>>
>>> Le 24 mars 2020 ? 09:49, Tieken, H.J.H. via INDOLOGY <
>>> indology at list.indology.info> a ?crit :
>>>
>>> Dear List members,
>>> Last night I started reading Ever After by Graham Swift. On p. 3 of the
>>> pocket edition (Vintage International) of 1993 we hear the protagonist
>>> think:
>>>
>>> "Before they [academics] are sixty, they are emulating one of the many
>>> varieties: ... the wide-eyed, latter-day infant, helpless in all mundane
>>> matters but possessed of a profound understanding of Sanskrit."
>>>
>>> A few months ago I was reading Nader tot U (1969) by Gerard van 't Reve
>>> gain. One of the characters has to fill in a profession on an official
>>> paper. In the end he decides to fill in "indoloog", which is considered to
>>> be better than "general in the Hungarian army" or "stratenmaker of zee"
>>> (general dogsbody) (p. 113). There is some confusion if indoloog refers to
>>> a civil servant in the Dutch Indies here (Indie verloren, rampspoed
>>> geboren) or to an indologist, which is later resolved by remarks about
>>> gurus and bhakti. I was amazed to see that I had bought the book in the
>>> summer of 1970, just a few months before I started with the study of
>>> Sanskrit.
>>>
>>> Are there more accidental references of this type to sanskritists or
>>> indologists in literature?
>>> (Leaving aside Lee Siegel's novel about Professor Roth being killed by
>>> Monier-Williams Sanskrit dictionary.)
>>>
>>> With kind regards Herman
>>>
>>> Herman Tieken
>>> Stationsweg 58
>>> 2515 BP Den Haag
>>> The Netherlands
>>> 00 31 (0)70 2208127
>>> website: hermantieken.com
>>> <https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fhermantieken.com%2F&data=02%7C01%7Cchristophe.vielle%40uclouvain.be%7C2ebe73edfa3d487755a208d7cfd05574%7C7ab090d4fa2e4ecfbc7c4127b4d582ec%7C0%7C0%7C637206365997980559&sdata=knZj3KCyfVrhEl8UT1nRa97QamdqJ1dnMK8PR5N0U9A%3D&reserved=0>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
>>> committee)
>>>
>>> https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Flistinfo.indology.info&amp;data=02%7C01%7Cchristophe.vielle%40uclouvain.be%7C2ebe73edfa3d487755a208d7cfd05574%7C7ab090d4fa2e4ecfbc7c4127b4d582ec%7C0%7C0%7C637206365998000549&amp;sdata=B9%2FyGKbIEipYn6NFLro1fpP9%2FGr6HMQ%2F4maeh1BWxaU%3D&amp;reserved=0
>>>  (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe)
>>>
>>>
>>> ???????????????????
>>> Christophe Vielle
>>> <https://uclouvain.be/en/directories/christophe.vielle>
>>> Louvain-la-Neuve
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
>>> committee)
>>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options
>>> or unsubscribe)
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
>> committee)
>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
>> unsubscribe)
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> INDOLOGY mailing list
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>> committee)
>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
>> unsubscribe)
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
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>> committee)
>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
>> unsubscribe)
>>
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
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> committee)
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> unsubscribe)
>


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From nagarajpaturi at gmail.com  Tue Mar 24 18:29:24 2020
From: nagarajpaturi at gmail.com (Nagaraj Paturi)
Date: Tue, 24 Mar 20 23:59:24 +0530
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Nick Allen
In-Reply-To: <CAKdt-Ce-LkipfJN2KVMQZDJ6DcstQvXpVkoFKEDrs3_s72itsQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAJGj9eZDnZNPH8B2ycofdHOztVtUjmJCveZKc9ftGtvtRxuTkA@mail.gmail.com>

Wanted to know more about this scholar so fondly remembered and found this
list:

http://users.ox.ac.uk/~njallen/complete_list.htm

And this:

nickallenbibliographypdf-0.pdf

On Tue, Mar 24, 2020, 9:27 PM Dominik Wujastyk via INDOLOGY <
indology at list.indology.info> wrote:

> Oh, I'm very sorry to hear this sad news.  Nick was a major part of Indian
> studies at Oxford for half a century.  He always pushed the boundaries of
> our understanding of ancient Indian epics and culture, a unique voice.
>
> I send my condolences to his friends, colleagues and students.
>
> Dominik Wujastyk
>
>
> --
> Professor Dominik Wujastyk
> <https://www.ualberta.ca/arts/about/people-collection/dominik-wujastyk>
> ,
>
> Singhmar Chair in Classical Indian Society and Polity
> ,
>
> Department of History and Classics
> <http://historyandclassics.ualberta.ca/>
> ,
> University of Alberta, Canada
> .
>
> South Asia at the U of A:
>
> sas.ualberta.ca
>
>
>
> On Tue, 24 Mar 2020 at 02:36, Christophe Vielle via INDOLOGY <
> indology at list.indology.info> wrote:
>
>> Dear List,
>> Nicholas (Nick) Allen passed away on last Saturday.
>> https://www.wolfson.ox.ac.uk/content/1138-dr-nicholas-allen
>> https://www.isca.ox.ac.uk/people/dr-nick-allen
>> A Floril?ge of his comparative works was issued at the end of the last
>> year: *Arjuna-Odysseus: Shared Heritage in Indian and Greek Epic*,
>> London: Routledge, 2019.
>>
>> TABLE OF CONTENTS:
>>
>> List of figures.
>> List of tables.
>> Acknowledgements.
>> List of abbreviations.
>> Signs.
>> Introduction
>> 1. A starting point
>> 2. Five relationships
>> 3. Homer?s simile
>> 4. Hero and horse
>> 5. Yoga
>> 6. Crocodiles and nymphs
>> 7. Monkey and dog
>> 8. Durga? and Athena
>> 9. Draupadi? and Penelope
>> 10. Bhi?sm a and Sarpedon
>> 11. Hesiod?s Succession Myth
>> 12. Five elements
>> 13. Rings and rotations
>> 14. Achilles? shield
>> 15. Dume?zil and Dumont
>> 16. Yudhis hira and Agamemnon
>> 17. Kauravas and suitors
>> 18. Hanging over abyss
>> 19. Gods descend to battlefield 20. Heroes and supercategories
>> 21. Cyavana and Prometheus 22. Telemachy 23. Dro a and Chryses
>> 24. As?vattha?man and the Wooden Horse. Bibliography.
>> Index.
>> ???????????????????
>> Christophe Vielle <https://uclouvain.be/en/directories/christophe.vielle>
>> Louvain-la-Neuve
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
>> committee)
>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
>> unsubscribe)
>>
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
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> committee)
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From deven.m.patel at gmail.com  Tue Mar 24 19:20:33 2020
From: deven.m.patel at gmail.com (Deven Patel)
Date: Tue, 24 Mar 20 15:20:33 -0400
Subject: [INDOLOGY] The study of Sanskrit as the epitome of uselessness
In-Reply-To: <CAAiVBEVe92W4sSxPdimxBBoyti5FBt=50kik0fPd4S=o7M2amg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAA2LJ2SKzTF-3rLZbTS4pJqVqvxMQgRWPHL3f3wL=wkCM=vWqQ@mail.gmail.com>

>From a review of the Broadway play Spamalot in the New York Times in 2006.
I had an amusing email back-and-forth with the critic when I jokingly asked
him if he could've used another metaphor...

"In "Spamalot," of course, the horseplay's the thing. And in a world of
juvenile antics, a gift for Shakespearean tragedy would seem to be about as
useful as a doctorate in Sanskrit."


On Tuesday, March 24, 2020, Jesse Knutson via INDOLOGY <
indology at list.indology.info> wrote:

> Speaking of my dear friend Lee Siegel: he often tells the story that he
> only decided to study Sanskrit after hearing a speech of Richard Nixon the
> California senator (before he became president), in which the latter
> quipped that the University of California's budget should be slashed
> because 'instead of doing anything useful, they are studying things like
> Sanskrit'.
>
> On Tue, Mar 24, 2020, 4:30 AM Walser, Joseph via INDOLOGY <
> indology at list.indology.info> wrote:
>
>> One of my favorites, although I am having difficulty finding the source,
>> is: "A knowledge of Sanskrit is of little use to a man trapped in a sewer."
>> The internet tells me that this is attributed to Tom Weller, but I suspect
>> that he got it from someone else.
>> Greetings from the sewer.
>>
>> -j
>>
>>
>> Joseph Walser
>>
>> Associate Professor
>>
>> Department of Religion
>>
>> Tufts University
>> ------------------------------
>> *From:* INDOLOGY [indology-bounces at list.indology.info] on behalf of
>> Madhav Deshpande via INDOLOGY [indology at list.indology.info]
>> *Sent:* Tuesday, March 24, 2020 9:41 AM
>> *To:* Andrey Klebanov
>> *Cc:* indology
>> *Subject:* Re: [INDOLOGY] The study of Sanskrit as the epitome of
>> uselessness
>>
>> Here is my description of what we as Indoloogs do:
>>
>> ???????? ?????: ???????????? ????? ????????: ?
>>
>> ??????? ????????????? ?? ????????????: ??
>>
>>
>> Hope it makes you laugh at ourselves!
>>
>>
>> Madhav M. Deshpande
>> Professor Emeritus, Sanskrit and Linguistics
>> University of Michigan, Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA
>> Senior Fellow, Oxford Center for Hindu Studies
>>
>> [Residence: Campbell, California, USA]
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Mar 24, 2020 at 4:56 AM Andrey Klebanov via INDOLOGY <
>> indology at list.indology.info> wrote:
>>
>>> ?To study Sanskrit? (????? ????????) became a rather popular idiom (a
>>> kind of meme) in Russia in 2015, and it has been used since then
>>> frequently exactly as an epitome of a useless time-consuming and
>>> exhausting activity, which, in a long run, may be still more rewarding
>>> than engaging in Russian politics (especially as a member of the
>>> opposition). It was popularized by journalist Oleg Kashin
>>> <http://kashin.guru>, who has famously used this expression (the
>>> original wording was actually slightly different) in his debate with
>>> politician Alexey Navalny, who, in 2015, campaigned for opposition parties
>>> to participate at regional elections at any cost. See, for example, here
>>> <http://lurkmore.to/%D0%9E%D0%BB%D0%B5%D0%B3_%D0%9A%D0%B0%D1%88%D0%B8%D0%BD#.D0.9C.D0.B5.D0.BC.D1.8B>
>>> or here <https://echo.msk.ru/programs/klinch/1742522-echo/>. The
>>> original debate is here
>>> <https://echo.msk.ru/programs/klinch/1592616-echo/>.
>>>
>>> best,
>>> Andrey
>>> On Mar 24, 2020 11:57 +0100, Sven Sellmer via INDOLOGY <
>>> indology at list.indology.info>, wrote:
>>>
>>> Dear All!
>>>
>>> One may also add a passage of Hermann Hesse's "Glasperlenspiel" here,
>>> though also rather in the category of useful uselessness:
>>>
>>> ? schon manche von ihnen haben ihr Leben an sehr entlegene und oft
>>> wunderliche Arbeiten gewendet, wie etwa jener Lodovicus crudelis, der in
>>> drei?igj?hriger Arbeit alle ?berlieferten alt?gyptischen Texte sowohl ins
>>> Griechiche wie ins Sanskrit ?bersetzt hat ?
>>>
>>> ? not few of them devoted their lives to very marginal and often rather
>>> strange occupations, like one Lodovicus crudelis, who in the course of
>>> thirty years translated all preserved Old Egyptian texts both into Greek
>>> and into Sanskrit ?
>>>
>>> Best wishes,
>>> Sven
>>>
>>> ****************************
>>> Sven Sellmer, PhD
>>> Adam Mickiewicz University
>>> Institute of Oriental Studies
>>> Department of South Asian Studies
>>> ul. Grunwaldzka 6
>>> <https://www.google.com/maps/search/Grunwaldzka+6+%0D%0A+60-780+Pozna%C5%84+%0D%0A+POLAND?entry=gmail&source=g>
>>> 60-780 Pozna?
>>> <https://www.google.com/maps/search/Grunwaldzka+6+%0D%0A+60-780+Pozna%C5%84+%0D%0A+POLAND?entry=gmail&source=g>
>>> POLAND
>>> <https://www.google.com/maps/search/Grunwaldzka+6+%0D%0A+60-780+Pozna%C5%84+%0D%0A+POLAND?entry=gmail&source=g>
>>> sven.sellmer at amu.edu.pl
>>>
>>> Am 24.03.2020 um 11:24 schrieb patrick mccartney via INDOLOGY <
>>> indology at list.indology.info>:
>>>
>>> Sort of related, on page 100 of chapter 5, of Amazing Stories (1943)
>>> issue 17 no 05, the following is said:
>>>
>>> She put her hands on her hips, her
>>> face thoughtful. Then she grabbed hold
>>> of the grab-rail on the side of the door-
>>> way, stepped into the bipedomobile.
>>> She wasn?t a tall girl, but she had to
>>> stoop.
>>>
>>> Her eyes were grave. Suddenly she
>>> pointed into the distance.
>>>
>>> ?Godwa te lele!?
>>> ?It?s all Sanskrit to me, Jamie,? he
>>> said sadly. ?They?ve sure done you up
>>> brown, haven?t they ? ^you?ve forgotten
>>> entirely, haven?t you? Well, if you want
>>> to go in that direction, okay. It?s as
>>> good as any, and maybe we?ll solve a
>>> few mysteries while we?re at it. We
>>> might even find out how to get your
>>> memory back again.?
>>>
>>> She smiled dazzlingly. She pointed
>>> again.
>>>
>>> This link will take you to the relevant page -
>>> https://archive.org/details/Amazing_Stories_v17n05_1943-
>>> 05_cape1736/page/n99/mode/2up/search/sanskrit
>>>
>>> All the best,
>>>
>>> ????? ???????
>>> Patrick McCartney, PhD
>>> Research Affiliate - Organization for Identity and Cultural Development
>>> (OICD), Kyoto
>>> Research Associate - Nanzan University Anthropological Institute,
>>> Nagoya, Japan
>>> Visiting Fellow - South and South-east Asian Studies
>>> Department, Australian National University
>>> Member - South Asia Research Institute (SARI), Australian National
>>> University
>>>
>>> Skype / Zoom - psdmccartney
>>> Phone + Whatsapp + Line:  +61410644259
>>> Twitter - @psdmccartney @yogascapesinjap
>>>  Yogascapes in Japan <http://yogascapes.weebly.com/> Academia
>>> <https://patrickmccartney.academia.edu/> Linkedin
>>> <https://www.linkedin.com/profile/view?id=241756978&trk=nav_responsive_tab_profile>
>>>  Modern Yoga Research <http://www.modernyogaresearch.org/events/>
>>>
>>> *bodhap?rvam calema* ;-)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>    -
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tue, Mar 24, 2020 at 6:38 PM Matthew Kapstein via INDOLOGY <
>>> indology at list.indology.info> wrote:
>>>
>>>> This reminds me that one of my teachers, the great Prof. Padmanabh
>>>> Jaini, lost several students in the late 70s because the job market seemed
>>>> particularly bad. They switched to law and easily passed the special
>>>> examinations, the "Law Boards," for entering American Law Schools. Jaini
>>>> joked that the field could be saved and even expanded by converting
>>>> Sanskrit to a pre-law required course.
>>>>
>>>> Matthew Kapstein
>>>> Directeur d'?tudes, ?m?rite
>>>> Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes, Paris
>>>>
>>>> Numata Visiting Professor of Buddhist Studies,
>>>> The University of Chicago
>>>> ------------------------------
>>>> From: INDOLOGY <indology-bounces at list.indology.info> on behalf of
>>>> Christophe Vielle via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info>
>>>> Sent: Tuesday, March 24, 2020 4:32 AM
>>>> To: Tieken, H.J.H. <H.J.H.Tieken at hum.leidenuniv.nl>
>>>> Cc: indology <indology at list.indology.info>
>>>> Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] The study of Sanskrit as the epitome of
>>>> uselessness
>>>>
>>>> The Classicist Nuccio Ordine has published a stimulating (useful) essay
>>>> "De l'utilit? de l'inutile" (English translation: The Usefulness of the
>>>> Useless").
>>>> where Sanskrit studies, together with Classics, are given as an example
>>>> of (useful) usefulness, cf. p. 95 of the Engl. Transl.:
>>>> https://books.google.com/books?id=NCArDgAAQBAJ
>>>> <https://books.google.be/books?id=NCArDgAAQBAJ&pg=PA95&lpg=PA95&dq=nuccio+ordine+the+usefulness+of+the+useless+sanskrit&source=bl&ots=JmMiqWAORS&sig=ACfU3U0_SDl4ZpYaNsGhUnflgLpFvJYTDg&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwj-rMSM5bLoAhXEMewKHYVdDp4Q6AEwAXoECAoQAQ#v=onepage&q=nuccio%20ordine%20the%20usefulness%20of%20the%20useless%20sanskrit&f=false>
>>>> See also it in his oral presentations:
>>>> https://uclouvain.be/en/research-institutes/incal/
>>>> conference-du-pr-nuccio-ordine.html
>>>> Quel danger courons-nous actuellement ? Dans une universit?-entreprise,
>>>> quand un professeur de sanskrit aura deux ?tudiants, le Conseil
>>>> d?administration de l?Universit? pourra dire que celle-ci ne peut pas se
>>>> permettre le luxe de payer un professeur de sanskrit pour deux ?tudiants.
>>>> Demain, cela sera pour dix ?tudiants en grec, et apr?s-demain pour quinze
>>>> ?tudiants en latin.
>>>>
>>>> Le 24 mars 2020 ? 09:49, Tieken, H.J.H. via INDOLOGY <
>>>> indology at list.indology.info> a ?crit :
>>>>
>>>> Dear List members,
>>>> Last night I started reading Ever After by Graham Swift. On p. 3 of the
>>>> pocket edition (Vintage International) of 1993 we hear the protagonist
>>>> think:
>>>>
>>>> "Before they [academics] are sixty, they are emulating one of the many
>>>> varieties: ... the wide-eyed, latter-day infant, helpless in all mundane
>>>> matters but possessed of a profound understanding of Sanskrit."
>>>>
>>>> A few months ago I was reading Nader tot U (1969) by Gerard van 't Reve
>>>> gain. One of the characters has to fill in a profession on an official
>>>> paper. In the end he decides to fill in "indoloog", which is considered to
>>>> be better than "general in the Hungarian army" or "stratenmaker of zee"
>>>> (general dogsbody) (p. 113). There is some confusion if indoloog refers to
>>>> a civil servant in the Dutch Indies here (Indie verloren, rampspoed
>>>> geboren) or to an indologist, which is later resolved by remarks about
>>>> gurus and bhakti. I was amazed to see that I had bought the book in the
>>>> summer of 1970, just a few months before I started with the study of
>>>> Sanskrit.
>>>>
>>>> Are there more accidental references of this type to sanskritists or
>>>> indologists in literature?
>>>> (Leaving aside Lee Siegel's novel about Professor Roth being killed by
>>>> Monier-Williams Sanskrit dictionary.)
>>>>
>>>> With kind regards Herman
>>>>
>>>> Herman Tieken
>>>> Stationsweg 58
>>>> <https://www.google.com/maps/search/Stationsweg+58+%0D%0A+2515+BP+Den+Haag+%0D%0A+The+Netherlands?entry=gmail&source=g>
>>>> 2515 BP Den Haag
>>>> <https://www.google.com/maps/search/Stationsweg+58+%0D%0A+2515+BP+Den+Haag+%0D%0A+The+Netherlands?entry=gmail&source=g>
>>>> The Netherlands
>>>> <https://www.google.com/maps/search/Stationsweg+58+%0D%0A+2515+BP+Den+Haag+%0D%0A+The+Netherlands?entry=gmail&source=g>
>>>> 00 31 (0)70 2208127
>>>> website: hermantieken.com
>>>> <https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fhermantieken.com%2F&data=02%7C01%7Cchristophe.vielle%40uclouvain.be%7C2ebe73edfa3d487755a208d7cfd05574%7C7ab090d4fa2e4ecfbc7c4127b4d582ec%7C0%7C0%7C637206365997980559&sdata=knZj3KCyfVrhEl8UT1nRa97QamdqJ1dnMK8PR5N0U9A%3D&reserved=0>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>>>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>>>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
>>>> committee)
>>>> https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=
>>>> http%3A%2F%2Flistinfo.indology.info&amp;data=02%
>>>> 7C01%7Cchristophe.vielle%40uclouvain.be%7C2ebe73edfa3d487755a208d7cfd0
>>>> 5574%7C7ab090d4fa2e4ecfbc7c4127b4d582ec%7C0%7C0%
>>>> 7C637206365998000549&amp;sdata=B9%2FyGKbIEipYn6NFLro1fpP9%
>>>> 2FGr6HMQ%2F4maeh1BWxaU%3D&amp;reserved=0 (where you can change your
>>>> list options or unsubscribe)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ???????????????????
>>>> Christophe Vielle
>>>> <https://uclouvain.be/en/directories/christophe.vielle>
>>>> Louvain-la-Neuve
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>>>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>>>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
>>>> committee)
>>>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options
>>>> or unsubscribe)
>>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
>>> committee)
>>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options
>>> or unsubscribe)
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
>>> committee)
>>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options
>>> or unsubscribe)
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
>>> committee)
>>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options
>>> or unsubscribe)
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
>> committee)
>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
>> unsubscribe)
>>
>

-- 
Deven M. Patel
University of Pennsylvania


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From saf at safarmer.com  Tue Mar 24 20:35:45 2020
From: saf at safarmer.com (Steve Farmer)
Date: Tue, 24 Mar 20 13:35:45 -0700
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Nick Allen
In-Reply-To: <CAJGj9eZDnZNPH8B2ycofdHOztVtUjmJCveZKc9ftGtvtRxuTkA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <DA2BCC70-5848-479D-9B34-D78BFA2962EA@safarmer.com>

Nagaraj Paturi wrote:

> Wanted to know more about this scholar [Nick Allen] so fondly remembered and found this list:
> 
> http://users.ox.ac.uk/~njallen/complete_list.htm <http://users.ox.ac.uk/~njallen/complete_list.htm>
> 
> And this:
> 
> nickallenbibliographypdf-0.pdf

Actually, on the last link: to get to the fullest bibliography of Nick?s works, go first here:

http://users.ox.ac.uk/~njallen/complete_list.htm <http://users.ox.ac.uk/~njallen/complete_list.htm> (early works from 1971-2008)

which is then continued here (works from later 2008 - 2018): 

https://www.anthro.ox.ac.uk/files/nickallenbibliographypdf-0 <https://www.anthro.ox.ac.uk/files/nickallenbibliographypdf-0>

Yes, Nick wrote a lot, and nearly right to the end.

Nick was a wonderful friend for the past 18 years or so. Besides his work as a Sanskritist and comparative anthropologist he was a regular participant in the Annual Conferences of the International Association for Comparative Mythology (IACM) ? formally founded in 2007 in Edinburgh, but going back three years earlier, to comparative mythology conferences Michael Witzel initiated at Harvard, Kyoto, and Beijing in 2004, 2005, and 2006. 

Nick?s work in comparative mythology was most closely associated with his extension of Dum?zil?s work in studies of Indo-European epic traditions, which Dum?zil and Nick after him argued were all based on earlier proto-Indo-European myths.

Besides being one of Dum?zil?s last and most articulate defenders, Nick was a warm and generous human being in every imaginable way. We argued good-naturedly for years about his defense of Dum?zil, but it never affected the warmth of our relationship.

I posted a note on Nick's death a bit ago on the Indo-Eurasian Research List (IER), which he contributed to frequently after Michael Witzel and I founded it in December 2004.

Right now, as we are planning the upcoming 14th Conference of the International Association of Comparative Mythology ? whose exact dates in part await the final judgment of the SARS-CoV-2 virus -- Nick's presence is deeply missed by everyone on the IACM Board.

Steve Farmer, PhD
The Systems Biology Group
Palo Alto, California









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From Greg.Bailey at latrobe.edu.au  Tue Mar 24 21:42:44 2020
From: Greg.Bailey at latrobe.edu.au (Greg Bailey)
Date: Tue, 24 Mar 20 21:42:44 +0000
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Nick Allen
In-Reply-To: <CAAPrgbo=_-VQ8tC9uGoNqKQE_Wk-KPnAmj+rNe9uanR_j+-iew@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <DAA0C9BF.3BA9D%greg.bailey@latrobe.edu.au>

Dear All,

Wonderful man. He came to a number of our conferences held in Dubrovnik on the epics and Pur??as, and made a great contribution.

Cheers,

Greg Bailey

From: INDOLOGY <indology-bounces at list.indology.info<mailto:indology-bounces at list.indology.info>> on behalf of Joanna Jurewicz via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info<mailto:indology at list.indology.info>>
Reply-To: Joanna Jurewicz <j.jurewicz at uw.edu.pl<mailto:j.jurewicz at uw.edu.pl>>
Date: Wednesday, 25 March 2020 at 2:10 am
To: James Hegarty <hegartyjm at googlemail.com<mailto:hegartyjm at googlemail.com>>
Cc: indology <indology at list.indology.info<mailto:indology at list.indology.info>>
Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] Nick Allen

Oh, what a said news!

Nick  was such a wise, and, at the same time, kind and straightforward person.

I will miss him and his work.

Joanna Jurewicz



---

Prof. dr hab. Joanna Jurewicz

Katedra Azji Po?udniowej /Chair of South Asia

Wydzia? Orientalistyczny / Faculty of Oriental Studies

Uniwersytet Warszawski /University of Warsaw

ul. Krakowskie Przedmie?cie 26/28

00-927 Warszawa , Poland

Department of Linguistics and Modern Languages

College of Human Sciences

UNISA

Pretoria, RSA

Member of Academia Europaea

https://uw.academia.edu/JoannaJurewicz<https://uw.academia.edu/JoannaJurewicz>


wt., 24 mar 2020 o 15:38 James Hegarty via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info<mailto:indology at list.indology.info>> napisa?(a):
Nick was a wonderful friend. I met him in Pune as a PhD student in 2001. He wondered up to me at the Bhandarkar and, with his characteristic high-pitched hum, said ?Mmmmm, is that Soren Sorensen?s Index of Names to the Mahabharata?? A friendship commenced then and there (how could it not?).

Nick was an inspiration to me as both a person and as an intellectual; he was unworried by the fashions of the day, inclusive in his interests, and could walk up a mountain like a sprightly goat after good pasture.

I will miss him.

James

On 24 Mar 2020, at 14:11, Olivelle, J P via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info<mailto:indology at list.indology.info>> wrote:

So sorry to hear of Nick?s passing. Came to know him well when I was a visiting fellow at Wolfson many years ago.

Patrick




On Mar 24, 2020, at 3:35 AM, Christophe Vielle via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info<mailto:indology at list.indology.info>> wrote:

Dear List,
Nicholas (Nick) Allen passed away on last Saturday.
https://www.wolfson.ox.ac.uk/content/1138-dr-nicholas-allen<https://www.wolfson.ox.ac.uk/content/1138-dr-nicholas-allen>
https://www.isca.ox.ac.uk/people/dr-nick-allen<https://www.isca.ox.ac.uk/people/dr-nick-allen>
A Floril?ge of his comparative works was issued at the end of the last year: Arjuna-Odysseus: Shared Heritage in Indian and Greek Epic, London: Routledge, 2019.

TABLE OF CONTENTS:

List of figures.
List of tables.
Acknowledgements.
List of abbreviations.
Signs.
Introduction
1. A starting point
2. Five relationships
3. Homer?s simile
4. Hero and horse
5. Yoga
6. Crocodiles and nymphs
7. Monkey and dog
8. Durg? and Athena
9. Draupad? and Penelope
10. Bh?sm a and Sarpedon
11. Hesiod?s Succession Myth
12. Five elements
13. Rings and rotations
14. Achilles? shield
15. Dum?zil and Dumont
16. Yudhis hira and Agamemnon
17. Kauravas and suitors
18. Hanging over abyss
19. Gods descend to battlefield 20. Heroes and supercategories
21. Cyavana and Prometheus 22. Telemachy 23. Dro a and Chryses
24. A?vatth?man and the Wooden Horse. Bibliography.
Index.

???????????????????
Christophe Vielle<https://uclouvain.be/en/directories/christophe.vielle>
Louvain-la-Neuve



<ABSTRACTS FOR ALLEN'S BOOK.pdf>_______________________________________________
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This message is from an external sender. Learn more about why this <<
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From SamuelG at cardiff.ac.uk  Tue Mar 24 21:51:20 2020
From: SamuelG at cardiff.ac.uk (Geoffrey Samuel)
Date: Tue, 24 Mar 20 21:51:20 +0000
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Nick Allen
In-Reply-To: <DAA0C9BF.3BA9D%greg.bailey@latrobe.edu.au>
Message-ID: <95BBB49E-D52F-4C09-B0B5-2BD61FC42233@cardiff.ac.uk>

I will miss Nick greatly too. I have known him for many years, and he was a good friend. I last saw him late last year in Oxford.

I entirely agree with the very positive comments people have been making. He was a warm, supportive and wise man, and I learned a lot from him.

Geoffrey

On 25 Mar 2020, at 08:42, Greg Bailey via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info<mailto:indology at list.indology.info>> wrote:

Dear All,

Wonderful man. He came to a number of our conferences held in Dubrovnik on the epics and Pur??as, and made a great contribution.

Cheers,

Greg Bailey



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From sauthoff at ualberta.ca  Tue Mar 24 23:57:55 2020
From: sauthoff at ualberta.ca (Patricia Sauthoff)
Date: Tue, 24 Mar 20 17:57:55 -0600
Subject: [INDOLOGY] The study of Sanskrit as the epitome of uselessness
In-Reply-To: <CAA2LJ2SKzTF-3rLZbTS4pJqVqvxMQgRWPHL3f3wL=wkCM=vWqQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAPAr6cHx8Spr0CVZZjzj2EOief0q5mTbC3dU-NuisbaWfwhnvA@mail.gmail.com>

*The Secret History* by Donna Tartt

p. 50

"You get along with Henry?
 "Oh, sure thing," said Bunny, reared back in his chair. "We were
roommates. Freshman year."
"And you like him?"
"Certainly, certainly. He's a hard fellow to live with though. Hates noise,
hates company, hates mess. None of this brining your date back to the room
to listen to a couple Art Pepper records, if you know what I'm trying to
get at."
"I think he's sort of rude."
Buddy shrugged. "That's his way. See, his mind doesn't work the same way
yours and mine do. He's always up in the clouds with Plato or something.
Works too hard, takes himself too seriously, studying Sanskrit and Coptic
and those other nutty languages. Henry, I tell him, if you're going to
waste your time learning something besides Greek -- that and the King's
English are all I think a man *needs*, personally -- why don't you buy
yourself some Berlitz records and brush up on your French. Find a little
can-can girl or something. Voolay-voo coushay avec moi and all that."
"How many languages does he know?"
"I lost count. Seven or eight. He can read *hieroglyphics.*"
"Wow."
Bunny shook his head fondly. "He's a genius, that boy. He could be a
translator for the UN if he wanted to be."
"Where's he from?"
"Missouri."


p. 356 also has a [not historically great] description of Buddhist Tantra.

On Tue, Mar 24, 2020 at 1:21 PM Deven Patel via INDOLOGY <
indology at list.indology.info> wrote:

> From a review of the Broadway play Spamalot in the New York Times in
> 2006.  I had an amusing email back-and-forth with the critic when I
> jokingly asked him if he could've used another metaphor...
>
> "In "Spamalot," of course, the horseplay's the thing. And in a world of
> juvenile antics, a gift for Shakespearean tragedy would seem to be about as
> useful as a doctorate in Sanskrit."
>
>
> On Tuesday, March 24, 2020, Jesse Knutson via INDOLOGY <
> indology at list.indology.info> wrote:
>
>> Speaking of my dear friend Lee Siegel: he often tells the story that he
>> only decided to study Sanskrit after hearing a speech of Richard Nixon the
>> California senator (before he became president), in which the latter
>> quipped that the University of California's budget should be slashed
>> because 'instead of doing anything useful, they are studying things like
>> Sanskrit'.
>>
>> On Tue, Mar 24, 2020, 4:30 AM Walser, Joseph via INDOLOGY <
>> indology at list.indology.info> wrote:
>>
>>> One of my favorites, although I am having difficulty finding the source,
>>> is: "A knowledge of Sanskrit is of little use to a man trapped in a sewer."
>>> The internet tells me that this is attributed to Tom Weller, but I suspect
>>> that he got it from someone else.
>>> Greetings from the sewer.
>>>
>>> -j
>>>
>>>
>>> Joseph Walser
>>>
>>> Associate Professor
>>>
>>> Department of Religion
>>>
>>> Tufts University
>>> ------------------------------
>>> *From:* INDOLOGY [indology-bounces at list.indology.info] on behalf of
>>> Madhav Deshpande via INDOLOGY [indology at list.indology.info]
>>> *Sent:* Tuesday, March 24, 2020 9:41 AM
>>> *To:* Andrey Klebanov
>>> *Cc:* indology
>>> *Subject:* Re: [INDOLOGY] The study of Sanskrit as the epitome of
>>> uselessness
>>>
>>> Here is my description of what we as Indoloogs do:
>>>
>>> ???????? ?????: ???????????? ????? ????????: ?
>>>
>>> ??????? ????????????? ?? ????????????: ??
>>>
>>>
>>> Hope it makes you laugh at ourselves!
>>>
>>>
>>> Madhav M. Deshpande
>>> Professor Emeritus, Sanskrit and Linguistics
>>> University of Michigan, Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA
>>> Senior Fellow, Oxford Center for Hindu Studies
>>>
>>> [Residence: Campbell, California, USA]
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tue, Mar 24, 2020 at 4:56 AM Andrey Klebanov via INDOLOGY <
>>> indology at list.indology.info> wrote:
>>>
>>>> ?To study Sanskrit? (????? ????????) became a rather popular idiom (a
>>>> kind of meme) in Russia in 2015, and it has been used since then
>>>> frequently exactly as an epitome of a useless time-consuming and
>>>> exhausting activity, which, in a long run, may be still more rewarding
>>>> than engaging in Russian politics (especially as a member of the
>>>> opposition). It was popularized by journalist Oleg Kashin
>>>> <http://kashin.guru>, who has famously used this expression (the
>>>> original wording was actually slightly different) in his debate with
>>>> politician Alexey Navalny, who, in 2015, campaigned for opposition parties
>>>> to participate at regional elections at any cost. See, for example,
>>>> here
>>>> <http://lurkmore.to/%D0%9E%D0%BB%D0%B5%D0%B3_%D0%9A%D0%B0%D1%88%D0%B8%D0%BD#.D0.9C.D0.B5.D0.BC.D1.8B>
>>>> or here <https://echo.msk.ru/programs/klinch/1742522-echo/>. The
>>>> original debate is here
>>>> <https://echo.msk.ru/programs/klinch/1592616-echo/>.
>>>>
>>>> best,
>>>> Andrey
>>>> On Mar 24, 2020 11:57 +0100, Sven Sellmer via INDOLOGY <
>>>> indology at list.indology.info>, wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Dear All!
>>>>
>>>> One may also add a passage of Hermann Hesse's "Glasperlenspiel" here,
>>>> though also rather in the category of useful uselessness:
>>>>
>>>> ? schon manche von ihnen haben ihr Leben an sehr entlegene und oft
>>>> wunderliche Arbeiten gewendet, wie etwa jener Lodovicus crudelis, der in
>>>> drei?igj?hriger Arbeit alle ?berlieferten alt?gyptischen Texte sowohl ins
>>>> Griechiche wie ins Sanskrit ?bersetzt hat ?
>>>>
>>>> ? not few of them devoted their lives to very marginal and often rather
>>>> strange occupations, like one Lodovicus crudelis, who in the course of
>>>> thirty years translated all preserved Old Egyptian texts both into Greek
>>>> and into Sanskrit ?
>>>>
>>>> Best wishes,
>>>> Sven
>>>>
>>>> ****************************
>>>> Sven Sellmer, PhD
>>>> Adam Mickiewicz University
>>>> Institute of Oriental Studies
>>>> Department of South Asian Studies
>>>> ul. Grunwaldzka 6
>>>> <https://www.google.com/maps/search/Grunwaldzka+6+%0D%0A+60-780+Pozna%C5%84+%0D%0A+POLAND?entry=gmail&source=g>
>>>> 60-780 Pozna?
>>>> <https://www.google.com/maps/search/Grunwaldzka+6+%0D%0A+60-780+Pozna%C5%84+%0D%0A+POLAND?entry=gmail&source=g>
>>>> POLAND
>>>> <https://www.google.com/maps/search/Grunwaldzka+6+%0D%0A+60-780+Pozna%C5%84+%0D%0A+POLAND?entry=gmail&source=g>
>>>> sven.sellmer at amu.edu.pl
>>>>
>>>> Am 24.03.2020 um 11:24 schrieb patrick mccartney via INDOLOGY <
>>>> indology at list.indology.info>:
>>>>
>>>> Sort of related, on page 100 of chapter 5, of Amazing Stories (1943)
>>>> issue 17 no 05, the following is said:
>>>>
>>>> She put her hands on her hips, her
>>>> face thoughtful. Then she grabbed hold
>>>> of the grab-rail on the side of the door-
>>>> way, stepped into the bipedomobile.
>>>> She wasn?t a tall girl, but she had to
>>>> stoop.
>>>>
>>>> Her eyes were grave. Suddenly she
>>>> pointed into the distance.
>>>>
>>>> ?Godwa te lele!?
>>>> ?It?s all Sanskrit to me, Jamie,? he
>>>> said sadly. ?They?ve sure done you up
>>>> brown, haven?t they ? ^you?ve forgotten
>>>> entirely, haven?t you? Well, if you want
>>>> to go in that direction, okay. It?s as
>>>> good as any, and maybe we?ll solve a
>>>> few mysteries while we?re at it. We
>>>> might even find out how to get your
>>>> memory back again.?
>>>>
>>>> She smiled dazzlingly. She pointed
>>>> again.
>>>>
>>>> This link will take you to the relevant page -
>>>> https://archive.org/details/Amazing_Stories_v17n05_1943-05_cape1736/page/n99/mode/2up/search/sanskrit
>>>>
>>>> All the best,
>>>>
>>>> ????? ???????
>>>> Patrick McCartney, PhD
>>>> Research Affiliate - Organization for Identity and Cultural Development
>>>> (OICD), Kyoto
>>>> Research Associate - Nanzan University Anthropological Institute,
>>>> Nagoya, Japan
>>>> Visiting Fellow - South and South-east Asian Studies
>>>> Department, Australian National University
>>>> Member - South Asia Research Institute (SARI), Australian National
>>>> University
>>>>
>>>> Skype / Zoom - psdmccartney
>>>> Phone + Whatsapp + Line:  +61410644259
>>>> Twitter - @psdmccartney @yogascapesinjap
>>>>  Yogascapes in Japan <http://yogascapes.weebly.com/> Academia
>>>> <https://patrickmccartney.academia.edu/> Linkedin
>>>> <https://www.linkedin.com/profile/view?id=241756978&trk=nav_responsive_tab_profile>
>>>>  Modern Yoga Research <http://www.modernyogaresearch.org/events/>
>>>>
>>>> *bodhap?rvam calema* ;-)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>    -
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Tue, Mar 24, 2020 at 6:38 PM Matthew Kapstein via INDOLOGY <
>>>> indology at list.indology.info> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> This reminds me that one of my teachers, the great Prof. Padmanabh
>>>>> Jaini, lost several students in the late 70s because the job market seemed
>>>>> particularly bad. They switched to law and easily passed the special
>>>>> examinations, the "Law Boards," for entering American Law Schools. Jaini
>>>>> joked that the field could be saved and even expanded by converting
>>>>> Sanskrit to a pre-law required course.
>>>>>
>>>>> Matthew Kapstein
>>>>> Directeur d'?tudes, ?m?rite
>>>>> Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes, Paris
>>>>>
>>>>> Numata Visiting Professor of Buddhist Studies,
>>>>> The University of Chicago
>>>>> ------------------------------
>>>>> From: INDOLOGY <indology-bounces at list.indology.info> on behalf of
>>>>> Christophe Vielle via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info>
>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, March 24, 2020 4:32 AM
>>>>> To: Tieken, H.J.H. <H.J.H.Tieken at hum.leidenuniv.nl>
>>>>> Cc: indology <indology at list.indology.info>
>>>>> Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] The study of Sanskrit as the epitome of
>>>>> uselessness
>>>>>
>>>>> The Classicist Nuccio Ordine has published a stimulating (useful)
>>>>> essay "De l'utilit? de l'inutile" (English translation: The Usefulness of
>>>>> the Useless").
>>>>> where Sanskrit studies, together with Classics, are given as an
>>>>> example of (useful) usefulness, cf. p. 95 of the Engl. Transl.:
>>>>> https://books.google.com/books?id=NCArDgAAQBAJ
>>>>> <https://books.google.be/books?id=NCArDgAAQBAJ&pg=PA95&lpg=PA95&dq=nuccio+ordine+the+usefulness+of+the+useless+sanskrit&source=bl&ots=JmMiqWAORS&sig=ACfU3U0_SDl4ZpYaNsGhUnflgLpFvJYTDg&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwj-rMSM5bLoAhXEMewKHYVdDp4Q6AEwAXoECAoQAQ#v=onepage&q=nuccio%20ordine%20the%20usefulness%20of%20the%20useless%20sanskrit&f=false>
>>>>> See also it in his oral presentations:
>>>>>
>>>>> https://uclouvain.be/en/research-institutes/incal/conference-du-pr-nuccio-ordine.html
>>>>> Quel danger courons-nous actuellement ? Dans une
>>>>> universit?-entreprise, quand un professeur de sanskrit aura deux ?tudiants,
>>>>> le Conseil d?administration de l?Universit? pourra dire que celle-ci ne
>>>>> peut pas se permettre le luxe de payer un professeur de sanskrit pour deux
>>>>> ?tudiants. Demain, cela sera pour dix ?tudiants en grec, et apr?s-demain
>>>>> pour quinze ?tudiants en latin.
>>>>>
>>>>> Le 24 mars 2020 ? 09:49, Tieken, H.J.H. via INDOLOGY <
>>>>> indology at list.indology.info> a ?crit :
>>>>>
>>>>> Dear List members,
>>>>> Last night I started reading Ever After by Graham Swift. On p. 3 of
>>>>> the pocket edition (Vintage International) of 1993 we hear the protagonist
>>>>> think:
>>>>>
>>>>> "Before they [academics] are sixty, they are emulating one of the many
>>>>> varieties: ... the wide-eyed, latter-day infant, helpless in all mundane
>>>>> matters but possessed of a profound understanding of Sanskrit."
>>>>>
>>>>> A few months ago I was reading Nader tot U (1969) by Gerard van 't
>>>>> Reve gain. One of the characters has to fill in a profession on an official
>>>>> paper. In the end he decides to fill in "indoloog", which is considered to
>>>>> be better than "general in the Hungarian army" or "stratenmaker of zee"
>>>>> (general dogsbody) (p. 113). There is some confusion if indoloog refers to
>>>>> a civil servant in the Dutch Indies here (Indie verloren, rampspoed
>>>>> geboren) or to an indologist, which is later resolved by remarks about
>>>>> gurus and bhakti. I was amazed to see that I had bought the book in the
>>>>> summer of 1970, just a few months before I started with the study of
>>>>> Sanskrit.
>>>>>
>>>>> Are there more accidental references of this type to sanskritists or
>>>>> indologists in literature?
>>>>> (Leaving aside Lee Siegel's novel about Professor Roth being killed by
>>>>> Monier-Williams Sanskrit dictionary.)
>>>>>
>>>>> With kind regards Herman
>>>>>
>>>>> Herman Tieken
>>>>> Stationsweg 58
>>>>> <https://www.google.com/maps/search/Stationsweg+58+%0D%0A+2515+BP+Den+Haag+%0D%0A+The+Netherlands?entry=gmail&source=g>
>>>>> 2515 BP Den Haag
>>>>> <https://www.google.com/maps/search/Stationsweg+58+%0D%0A+2515+BP+Den+Haag+%0D%0A+The+Netherlands?entry=gmail&source=g>
>>>>> The Netherlands
>>>>> <https://www.google.com/maps/search/Stationsweg+58+%0D%0A+2515+BP+Den+Haag+%0D%0A+The+Netherlands?entry=gmail&source=g>
>>>>> 00 31 (0)70 2208127
>>>>> website: hermantieken.com
>>>>> <https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fhermantieken.com%2F&data=02%7C01%7Cchristophe.vielle%40uclouvain.be%7C2ebe73edfa3d487755a208d7cfd05574%7C7ab090d4fa2e4ecfbc7c4127b4d582ec%7C0%7C0%7C637206365997980559&sdata=knZj3KCyfVrhEl8UT1nRa97QamdqJ1dnMK8PR5N0U9A%3D&reserved=0>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>>>>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>>>>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
>>>>> committee)
>>>>>
>>>>> https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Flistinfo.indology.info&amp;data=02%7C01%7Cchristophe.vielle%40uclouvain.be%7C2ebe73edfa3d487755a208d7cfd05574%7C7ab090d4fa2e4ecfbc7c4127b4d582ec%7C0%7C0%7C637206365998000549&amp;sdata=B9%2FyGKbIEipYn6NFLro1fpP9%2FGr6HMQ%2F4maeh1BWxaU%3D&amp;reserved=0
>>>>>  (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe)
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ???????????????????
>>>>> Christophe Vielle
>>>>> <https://uclouvain.be/en/directories/christophe.vielle>
>>>>> Louvain-la-Neuve
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>>>>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>>>>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
>>>>> committee)
>>>>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options
>>>>> or unsubscribe)
>>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>>>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>>>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
>>>> committee)
>>>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options
>>>> or unsubscribe)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>>>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>>>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
>>>> committee)
>>>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options
>>>> or unsubscribe)
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>>>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>>>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
>>>> committee)
>>>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options
>>>> or unsubscribe)
>>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
>>> committee)
>>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options
>>> or unsubscribe)
>>>
>>
>
> --
> Deven M. Patel
> University of Pennsylvania
>
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
> committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
> unsubscribe)
>


-- 
Patricia Sauthoff
(she/her/they/them)
Postdoctoral Fellow
AyurYog.org
Department of History and Classics
University of Alberta
Edmonton, Canada


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From luther.obrock at gmail.com  Wed Mar 25 00:00:08 2020
From: luther.obrock at gmail.com (luther obrock)
Date: Tue, 24 Mar 20 20:00:08 -0400
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Summer school postponed
Message-ID: <CALM2Y+rAQf+LZJ_zma7tJ8qpH5n8YRajszFY_5tGAKUBafHRSw@mail.gmail.com>

Dear All,



Given the COVID 19 situation and the uncertainty surrounding the coming
months, I have decided to postpone the summer school on Indian Epigraphy
which was to take place May 28th-June 1st. While this is still two months
away, I think an excess of caution is to be called for in this situation.
Also the situation changes so much every day that planning and logistics is
becoming more and more difficult. That being said, I want to stress that
the University of Toronto and I remain committed to the workshop on South
Asian Epigraphy and we hope reschedule this event at a later date.



In the next weeks, we will continue assess the situation



Thank you again for your input and your patience, and please do not
hesitate to contact me if you have any further questions or concerns.



Best,



Luther Obrock


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From dharmaprof108 at yahoo.com  Wed Mar 25 00:02:09 2020
From: dharmaprof108 at yahoo.com (Jeffery Long)
Date: Wed, 25 Mar 20 00:02:09 +0000
Subject: [INDOLOGY] The study of Sanskrit as the epitome of uselessness
In-Reply-To: <CAPAr6cHx8Spr0CVZZjzj2EOief0q5mTbC3dU-NuisbaWfwhnvA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1471453666.1634165.1585094529988@mail.yahoo.com>

Dear Patricia,
As a Missouri native, I particularly appreciate this one!
All the best,Jeff
Dr. Jeffery D. Long
Professor of Religion and Asian Studies
Elizabethtown CollegeElizabethtown, PA
https://etown.academia.edu/JefferyLong
Series Editor,?Explorations in Indic Traditions: Theological, Ethical, and PhilosophicalLexington Books
"One who makes a habit of prayer and meditation will easily overcome all difficulties and remain calm and unruffled in the midst of the trials of life." ?(Holy Mother Sarada Devi)
"We are a way for the Cosmos to know itself." (Carl Sagan)
 

    On Tuesday, March 24, 2020, 07:59:20 PM EDT, Patricia Sauthoff via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info> wrote:  
 
 The Secret History?by Donna Tartt
p. 50?
"You get along with Henry?
?"Oh, sure thing," said Bunny, reared back in his chair. "We were roommates. Freshman year."?
"And you like him?"?
"Certainly, certainly. He's a hard fellow to live with though. Hates noise, hates company, hates mess. None of this brining your date back to the room to listen to a couple Art Pepper records, if you know what I'm trying to get at."?"I think he's sort of rude."?
Buddy shrugged. "That's his way. See, his mind doesn't work the same way yours and mine do. He's always up in the clouds with Plato or something. Works too hard, takes himself too seriously, studying Sanskrit and Coptic and those other nutty languages. Henry, I tell him, if you're going to waste your time learning something besides Greek -- that and the King's English are all I think a man needs, personally -- why don't you buy yourself some Berlitz records and brush up on your French. Find a little can-can girl or something. Voolay-voo coushay avec moi and all that."
"How many languages does he know?"
"I lost count. Seven or eight. He can read hieroglyphics."
"Wow."?Bunny shook his head fondly. "He's a genius, that boy. He could be a translator for the UN if he wanted to be."?
"Where's he from?"?
"Missouri."?

p. 356 also has a [not historically great] description of Buddhist Tantra.
On Tue, Mar 24, 2020 at 1:21 PM Deven Patel via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info> wrote:

>From a review of the Broadway play Spamalot in the New York Times in 2006.? I had an amusing email back-and-forth with the critic when I jokingly asked him if he could've used another metaphor...
"In "Spamalot," of course, the horseplay's the thing. And in a world of juvenile antics, a gift for Shakespearean tragedy would seem to be about as useful as a doctorate in Sanskrit."

On Tuesday, March 24, 2020, Jesse Knutson via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info> wrote:

Speaking of my dear friend Lee Siegel: he often tells the story that he only decided to study Sanskrit after hearing a speech of Richard Nixon the California senator (before he became president), in which the latter quipped that the University of California's budget should be slashed because 'instead of doing anything useful, they are studying things like Sanskrit'.?
On Tue, Mar 24, 2020, 4:30 AM Walser, Joseph via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info> wrote:

One of my favorites, although I am having difficulty finding the source, is: "A knowledge of Sanskrit is of little use to a man trapped in a sewer." The internet tells me that this is attributed to Tom Weller, but I suspect that he got it from someone else.Greetings from the sewer.

-j


Joseph Walser

Associate Professor

Department of Religion

Tufts University
From: INDOLOGY [indology-bounces at list.indology.info] on behalf of Madhav Deshpande via INDOLOGY [indology at list.indology.info]
Sent: Tuesday, March 24, 2020 9:41 AM
To: Andrey Klebanov
Cc: indology
Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] The study of Sanskrit as the epitome of uselessness

Here is my description of what we as Indoloogs do:

???????? ?????: ???????????? ????? ????????: ?

??????? ????????????? ?? ????????????: ??




Hope it makes you laugh at ourselves!



Madhav M. DeshpandeProfessor Emeritus, Sanskrit and LinguisticsUniversity of Michigan, Ann Arbor, Michigan, USASenior Fellow, Oxford Center for Hindu Studies

[Residence: Campbell, California, USA]


On Tue, Mar 24, 2020 at 4:56 AM Andrey Klebanov via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info> wrote:

?To study Sanskrit? (????? ????????) became a rather popular idiom (a kind of meme) in Russia in 2015, and it has been used since then?frequently?exactly as an epitome of a useless time-consuming and exhausting activity, which, in a long run,?may be?still more rewarding than engaging in Russian politics (especially as a member of the opposition). It was popularized by journalistOleg Kashin, who has famously used this expression (the original wording was actually slightly different) in his debate with politician Alexey Navalny, who, in 2015, campaigned for opposition parties to participate at regional elections at any cost. See, for example, here or here. The original debate is here.?
best,
AndreyOn Mar 24, 2020 11:57 +0100, Sven Sellmer via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info>, wrote:

Dear All!
One may also add a passage of Hermann Hesse's "Glasperlenspiel" here, though also rather in the category of useful uselessness:
? schon manche von ihnen haben ihr Leben an sehr entlegene und oft wunderliche Arbeiten gewendet, wie etwa jener Lodovicus crudelis, der in drei?igj?hriger Arbeit alle ?berlieferten alt?gyptischen Texte sowohl ins Griechiche wie ins Sanskrit ?bersetzt hat ?
? not few of them devoted their lives to very marginal and often rather strange occupations, like one Lodovicus crudelis, who in the course of thirty years translated all preserved Old Egyptian texts both into Greek and into Sanskrit ??
Best wishes,Sven
****************************
Sven Sellmer, PhD
Adam Mickiewicz University
Institute?of Oriental Studies
Department of South Asian Studies
ul. Grunwaldzka 6
60-780 Pozna?
POLAND
sven.sellmer at amu.edu.pl


Am 24.03.2020 um 11:24 schrieb patrick mccartney via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info>:
Sort of related, on page 100 of chapter 5, of?Amazing Stories (1943) issue 17 no 05,?the following is said:?She put her hands on her hips, her  
face thoughtful. Then she grabbed hold  
of the grab-rail on the side of the door-  
way, stepped into the bipedomobile.  
She wasn?t a tall girl, but she had to  
stoop.  

Her eyes were grave. Suddenly she  
pointed into the distance.  

?Godwa te lele!?  

?It?s all Sanskrit to me, Jamie,? he  
said sadly. ?They?ve sure done you up  
brown, haven?t they ? ^you?ve forgotten  
entirely, haven?t you? Well, if you want  
to go in that direction, okay. It?s as  
good as any, and maybe we?ll solve a  
few mysteries while we?re at it. We  
might even find out how to get your  
memory back again.?  

She smiled dazzlingly. She pointed  
again.This link will take you to the relevant page -?https://archive.org/details/Amazing_Stories_v17n05_1943-05_cape1736/page/n99/mode/2up/search/sanskrit
All the best,

?????????????
Patrick McCartney, PhDResearch Affiliate - Organization for Identity and Cultural Development (OICD), Kyoto
Research Associate - Nanzan University Anthropological Institute, Nagoya, JapanVisiting Fellow - South and South-east Asian Studies Department,?Australian National UniversityMember - South Asia Research Institute (SARI), Australian National University
Skype / Zoom - psdmccartneyPhone + Whatsapp + Line: ?+61410644259Twitter - @psdmccartney @yogascapesinjap
?Yogascapes in Japan?Academia?Linkedin?Modern Yoga Research
bodhap?rvam calema ;-)

?



   
   - 









On Tue, Mar 24, 2020 at 6:38 PM Matthew Kapstein via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info> wrote:

This reminds me that one of my teachers, the great Prof. Padmanabh Jaini, lost several students in the late 70s because the job market seemed particularly bad. They switched to law and easily passed the special examinations, the "Law Boards," for entering American Law Schools. Jaini joked that the field could be saved and even expanded by converting Sanskrit to a pre-law required course.

Matthew Kapstein
Directeur d'?tudes,?m?rite
Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes, Paris

Numata Visiting Professor of Buddhist Studies,
The University of Chicago
From: INDOLOGY <indology-bounces at list.indology.info> on behalf of Christophe Vielle via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info>
Sent: Tuesday, March 24, 2020 4:32 AM
To: Tieken, H.J.H. <H.J.H.Tieken at hum.leidenuniv.nl>
Cc: indology <indology at list.indology.info>
Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] The study of Sanskrit as the epitome of uselessness?The Classicist Nuccio Ordine has published a stimulating (useful) essay "De l'utilit? de l'inutile" (English translation: The Usefulness of the Useless").where Sanskrit studies, together with Classics, are given as an example of (useful) usefulness, cf. p. 95 of the Engl. Transl.:https://books.google.com/books?id=NCArDgAAQBAJSee also it in his oral presentations:https://uclouvain.be/en/research-institutes/incal/conference-du-pr-nuccio-ordine.htmlQuel danger courons-nous actuellement ? Dans une universit?-entreprise, quand un professeur de sanskrit aura deux ?tudiants, le Conseil d?administration de l?Universit? pourra dire que celle-ci ne peut pas se permettre le luxe de payer un professeur de sanskrit pour deux ?tudiants. Demain, cela sera pour dix ?tudiants en grec, et apr?s-demain pour quinze ?tudiants en latin.

Le 24 mars 2020 ? 09:49, Tieken, H.J.H. via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info> a ?crit :
Dear List members,Last night I started reading Ever After by Graham Swift. On p. 3 of the pocket edition (Vintage International) of 1993 we hear the protagonist think:
"Before they [academics] are sixty, they are emulating one of the many varieties: ... the wide-eyed,?latter-day infant, helpless in all mundane matters but possessed of a profound understanding of Sanskrit."
A few months ago I was reading Nader tot U (1969) by Gerard van 't Reve gain. One of the characters has to fill in a profession on an official paper. In the end he decides to fill in "indoloog", which is considered to be better than "general in the?Hungarian army"?or "stratenmaker of zee" (general dogsbody) (p. 113). There is some confusion if indoloog refers to a civil servant in the Dutch Indies here (Indie verloren, rampspoed geboren) or to an indologist, which is later resolved by remarks about gurus and bhakti. I was amazed to see that I had bought the book in the summer of?1970, just a few?months before I started with the study of Sanskrit.
Are there more accidental references of this type to sanskritists or indologists in literature?(Leaving aside Lee Siegel's novel about Professor Roth being killed by Monier-Williams Sanskrit dictionary.)
With kind regards Herman
Herman TiekenStationsweg 582515 BP Den HaagThe Netherlands00 31 (0)70 2208127
website:?hermantieken.com_______________________________________________
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???????????????????
Christophe Vielle
Louvain-la-Neuve


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-- 
Deven M. Patel
University of Pennsylvania

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-- 
Patricia Sauthoff(she/her/they/them)
Postdoctoral Fellow
AyurYog.org
Department of History and Classics
University of Alberta
Edmonton, Canada_______________________________________________
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From vasishtha.spier at gmail.com  Wed Mar 25 02:18:43 2020
From: vasishtha.spier at gmail.com (Harry Spier)
Date: Tue, 24 Mar 20 22:18:43 -0400
Subject: =?utf-8?Q?[INDOLOGY]_Meaning_of_abhagnam=C4=81nam_in_this_verse?=
Message-ID: <CAJ3b0o8zjDcuy4DsyyDBWfZQXbzu4cyg65DqLGYOu3E-p0gcag@mail.gmail.com>

Dear list members,

Like many on this list I'm now at home and passing the time by reading
sanskrit. I'm going through the Panchatantra.
Verse 1.34 is:

yaj j?vyate k?a?am api prathita? manu?yair vij??navikramaya?obhir
abhagnam?nam tan n?ma j?vitam iha pravadanti tajj??? k?ko 'pi j?vati cira?
ca bali? ca bhu?kte |

which Patrick Olivelle translates as:

"If his repute is spread wide among men, if he lacks not wisdom, courage,
or fame, 'That's true life in this world." the wise say: even crows live
long, but they live on scraps."

and Edgerton translates as:

Real life in this world, the wise say, is only that which is lived,
perchance only for a brief season, yet known to fame among men, and not
lacking in wisdom, prowess, or glory. A very crow lives a long time and
devours the food that is thrown to it.

I'm not clear what abhagnam?nam means in the verse and how it fits into
these translations.

Bohtlingk-Roth for  abhagnam?nam has Adj. *wobei die Ehre nicht leidet*
which I think means something like "whereby honor doesn't suffer" which
even more confuses me.

Any help would be appreciated.

Harry Spier


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From mmdesh at umich.edu  Wed Mar 25 03:38:47 2020
From: mmdesh at umich.edu (Madhav Deshpande)
Date: Tue, 24 Mar 20 20:38:47 -0700
Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_[INDOLOGY]=09Meaning_of_abhagnam=C4=81nam_in_this_verse?=
In-Reply-To: <CAJ3b0o8zjDcuy4DsyyDBWfZQXbzu4cyg65DqLGYOu3E-p0gcag@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAB3-dzd3vqaHaKx+f7G0DCB-YvPHyXkdB1tk-8x7=1VfSq3SzQ@mail.gmail.com>

Dear Harry,

    Compare Bhartr?hari's verse:

????????????????????????
???? ?????? ???????????? ? ?
???? ????????? ?????? ????????????
???? ???????? ?????????? ???????? ??

The verse suggests that a dog is willing to go through his ??????? in order
to get his food, while the proud elephant is not.  In the verse ??????
?????????? ??? ???????: ???????:, the term ??????? is used.  The expression
????????? ??????? in my view refers to the kind of life where one's pride
is not broken by the circumstances, and that one can only preserve one's
pride ????? only with  qualities like ???????-??????-????.

Madhav

Madhav M. Deshpande
Professor Emeritus, Sanskrit and Linguistics
University of Michigan, Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA
Senior Fellow, Oxford Center for Hindu Studies

[Residence: Campbell, California, USA]


On Tue, Mar 24, 2020 at 7:19 PM Harry Spier via INDOLOGY <
indology at list.indology.info> wrote:

> Dear list members,
>
> Like many on this list I'm now at home and passing the time by reading
> sanskrit. I'm going through the Panchatantra.
> Verse 1.34 is:
>
> yaj j?vyate k?a?am api prathita? manu?yair vij??navikramaya?obhir
> abhagnam?nam tan n?ma j?vitam iha pravadanti tajj??? k?ko 'pi j?vati cira?
> ca bali? ca bhu?kte |
>
> which Patrick Olivelle translates as:
>
> "If his repute is spread wide among men, if he lacks not wisdom, courage,
> or fame, 'That's true life in this world." the wise say: even crows live
> long, but they live on scraps."
>
> and Edgerton translates as:
>
> Real life in this world, the wise say, is only that which is lived,
> perchance only for a brief season, yet known to fame among men, and not
> lacking in wisdom, prowess, or glory. A very crow lives a long time and
> devours the food that is thrown to it.
>
> I'm not clear what abhagnam?nam means in the verse and how it fits into
> these translations.
>
> Bohtlingk-Roth for  abhagnam?nam has Adj. *wobei die Ehre nicht leidet*
> which I think means something like "whereby honor doesn't suffer" which
> even more confuses me.
>
> Any help would be appreciated.
>
> Harry Spier
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
> committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
> unsubscribe)
>


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From christophe.vielle at uclouvain.be  Wed Mar 25 08:51:40 2020
From: christophe.vielle at uclouvain.be (Christophe Vielle)
Date: Wed, 25 Mar 20 09:51:40 +0100
Subject: [INDOLOGY] The study of Sanskrit as the epitome of uselessness
In-Reply-To: <1471453666.1634165.1585094529988@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <F46FE989-0D54-40FF-ABFD-E46C12CB7085@uclouvain.be>

A quick search in Marcel Proust's "? la recherche du temps perdu", provides the following extracts:

Alors le solitaire languit seul. Il n'a d'autre plaisir que d'aller ? la station de bains de mer voisine demander un renseignement ? un certain employ? de chemin de fer. Mais celui-ci a re?u de l'avancement, est nomm? ? l'autre bout de la France ; le solitaire ne pourra plus aller lui demander l'heure des trains, le prix des premi?res, et avant de rentrer r?ver dans sa tour, comme Gris?lidis, il s'attarde sur la plage, telle une ?trange Androm?de qu'aucun Argonaute ne viendra d?livrer, comme une m?duse st?rile qui p?rira sur le sable, ou bien il reste paresseusement, avant le d?part du train, sur le quai, ? jeter sur la foule des voyageurs un regard qui semblera indiff?rent, d?daigneux ou distrait ? ceux d'une autre race, mais qui, comme l'?clat lumineux dont se parent certains insectes pour attirer ceux de la m?me esp?ce, ou comme le nectar qu'offrent certaines fleurs pour attirer les insectes qui les f?conderont, ne tromperait pas l'amateur presque introuvable d'un plaisir trop singulier, trop difficile ? placer, qui lui est offert, le confr?re avec qui notre sp?cialiste pourrait parler la langue insolite ; tout au plus ? celle-ci quelque loqueteux du quai fera-t-il semblant de s'int?resser, mais pour un b?n?fice mat?riel seulement, comme ceux qui, au Coll?ge de France, dans la salle o? le professeur de sanscrit parle sans auditeur, vont suivre le cours, mais seulement pour se chauffer.

Ou plut?t non, un Institut de psychophysiologie sp?ciale vous conviendrait mieux. Et je vous vois surtout pourvu d'une chaire au Coll?ge de France, vous permettant de vous livrer ? des ?tudes personnelles dont vous livreriez les r?sultats, comme fait le professeur de tamoul ou de sanscrit devant le tr?s petit nombre de personnes que cela int?resse.


Eh bien ! si sp?ciales que soient ces guerres balkaniques, Lull?-Burgas c'est encore Ulm, l'enveloppement par l'aile. Voil? les sujets dont tu peux me parler. Mais pour le genre de choses auxquelles tu fais allusion, je m'y connais autant qu'en sanscrit.

https://alarecherchedutempsperdu.org
https://alarecherchedutempsperdu.org/marcel-proust/ <https://alarecherchedutempsperdu.org/marcel-proust/>

> Le 25 mars 2020 ? 01:02, Jeffery Long via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info> a ?crit :
> 
> Dear Patricia,
> 
> As a Missouri native, I particularly appreciate this one!
> 
> All the best,
> Jeff
> 
> Dr. Jeffery D. Long
> Professor of Religion and Asian Studies
> Elizabethtown College
> Elizabethtown, PA
> 
> https://etown.academia.edu/JefferyLong <https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fetown.academia.edu%2FJefferyLong&data=02%7C01%7Cchristophe.vielle%40uclouvain.be%7C40256ed0ddeb4838a5e308d7d04fdf88%7C7ab090d4fa2e4ecfbc7c4127b4d582ec%7C0%7C0%7C637206913780261790&sdata=L4jdNhYG%2F549gkVrwgsa4NBlCtuKlmEg%2Bw%2FpvuCUH5g%3D&reserved=0>
> 
> Series Editor, Explorations in Indic Traditions: Theological, Ethical, and Philosophical
> Lexington Books
> 
> "One who makes a habit of prayer and meditation will easily overcome all difficulties and remain calm and unruffled in the midst of the trials of life."  (Holy Mother Sarada Devi)
> 
> "We are a way for the Cosmos to know itself." (Carl Sagan)
> 
> 
> 
> On Tuesday, March 24, 2020, 07:59:20 PM EDT, Patricia Sauthoff via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info> wrote:
> 
> 
> The Secret History by Donna Tartt
> 
> p. 50 
> 
> "You get along with Henry?
>  "Oh, sure thing," said Bunny, reared back in his chair. "We were roommates. Freshman year." 
> "And you like him?" 
> "Certainly, certainly. He's a hard fellow to live with though. Hates noise, hates company, hates mess. None of this brining your date back to the room to listen to a couple Art Pepper records, if you know what I'm trying to get at." 
> "I think he's sort of rude." 
> Buddy shrugged. "That's his way. See, his mind doesn't work the same way yours and mine do. He's always up in the clouds with Plato or something. Works too hard, takes himself too seriously, studying Sanskrit and Coptic and those other nutty languages. Henry, I tell him, if you're going to waste your time learning something besides Greek -- that and the King's English are all I think a man needs, personally -- why don't you buy yourself some Berlitz records and brush up on your French. Find a little can-can girl or something. Voolay-voo coushay avec moi and all that."
> "How many languages does he know?"
> "I lost count. Seven or eight. He can read hieroglyphics."
> "Wow." 
> Bunny shook his head fondly. "He's a genius, that boy. He could be a translator for the UN if he wanted to be." 
> "Where's he from?" 
> "Missouri." 
> 
> 
> p. 356 also has a [not historically great] description of Buddhist Tantra.
> 
> On Tue, Mar 24, 2020 at 1:21 PM Deven Patel via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info <mailto:indology at list.indology.info>> wrote:
> From a review of the Broadway play Spamalot in the New York Times in 2006.  I had an amusing email back-and-forth with the critic when I jokingly asked him if he could've used another metaphor...
> 
> "In "Spamalot," of course, the horseplay's the thing. And in a world of juvenile antics, a gift for Shakespearean tragedy would seem to be about as useful as a doctorate in Sanskrit."
> 
> 
> On Tuesday, March 24, 2020, Jesse Knutson via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info <mailto:indology at list.indology.info>> wrote:
> Speaking of my dear friend Lee Siegel: he often tells the story that he only decided to study Sanskrit after hearing a speech of Richard Nixon the California senator (before he became president), in which the latter quipped that the University of California's budget should be slashed because 'instead of doing anything useful, they are studying things like Sanskrit'. 
> 
> On Tue, Mar 24, 2020, 4:30 AM Walser, Joseph via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info <mailto:indology at list.indology.info>> wrote:
> One of my favorites, although I am having difficulty finding the source, is: "A knowledge of Sanskrit is of little use to a man trapped in a sewer." The internet tells me that this is attributed to Tom Weller, but I suspect that he got it from someone else.
> Greetings from the sewer.
> 
> -j
> 
> 
> Joseph Walser
> 
> Associate Professor
> 
> Department of Religion
> 
> Tufts University
> 
> From: INDOLOGY [indology-bounces at list.indology.info <mailto:indology-bounces at list.indology.info>] on behalf of Madhav Deshpande via INDOLOGY [indology at list.indology.info <mailto:indology at list.indology.info>]
> Sent: Tuesday, March 24, 2020 9:41 AM
> To: Andrey Klebanov
> Cc: indology
> Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] The study of Sanskrit as the epitome of uselessness
> 
> Here is my description of what we as Indoloogs do:
> 
> ???????? ?????: ???????????? ????? ????????: ?
> ??????? ????????????? ?? ????????????: ??
> 
> Hope it makes you laugh at ourselves!
> 
> Madhav M. Deshpande
> Professor Emeritus, Sanskrit and Linguistics
> University of Michigan, Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA
> Senior Fellow, Oxford Center for Hindu Studies
> 
> [Residence: Campbell, California, USA]
> 
> 
> On Tue, Mar 24, 2020 at 4:56 AM Andrey Klebanov via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info <mailto:indology at list.indology.info>> wrote:
> ?To study Sanskrit? (????? ????????) became a rather popular idiom (a kind of meme) in Russia in 2015, and it has been used since then frequently exactly as an epitome of a useless time-consuming and exhausting activity, which, in a long run, may be still more rewarding than engaging in Russian politics (especially as a member of the opposition). It was popularized by journalist Oleg Kashin <https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fkashin.guru%2F&data=02%7C01%7Cchristophe.vielle%40uclouvain.be%7C40256ed0ddeb4838a5e308d7d04fdf88%7C7ab090d4fa2e4ecfbc7c4127b4d582ec%7C0%7C0%7C637206913780261790&sdata=dzY%2Fbu6SXjH5BaQOmIm3D58vgKBGcCBPnrgilGQLJHs%3D&reserved=0>, who has famously used this expression (the original wording was actually slightly different) in his debate with politician Alexey Navalny, who, in 2015, campaigned for opposition parties to participate at regional elections at any cost. See, for example, here <https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Flurkmore.to%2F%25D0%259E%25D0%25BB%25D0%25B5%25D0%25B3_%25D0%259A%25D0%25B0%25D1%2588%25D0%25B8%25D0%25BD%23.D0.9C.D0.B5.D0.BC.D1.8B&data=02%7C01%7Cchristophe.vielle%40uclouvain.be%7C40256ed0ddeb4838a5e308d7d04fdf88%7C7ab090d4fa2e4ecfbc7c4127b4d582ec%7C0%7C0%7C637206913780271786&sdata=PKCWauLm%2BNA7gjgDNOH8lfk%2F8U1hjVJYsjMK4GKNEkU%3D&reserved=0> or here <https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fecho.msk.ru%2Fprograms%2Fklinch%2F1742522-echo%2F&data=02%7C01%7Cchristophe.vielle%40uclouvain.be%7C40256ed0ddeb4838a5e308d7d04fdf88%7C7ab090d4fa2e4ecfbc7c4127b4d582ec%7C0%7C0%7C637206913780271786&sdata=SX4G2d2NGUl2bCu2Nr0BlwlhxknggGY5gP6nZhLEFqE%3D&reserved=0>. The original debate is here <https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fecho.msk.ru%2Fprograms%2Fklinch%2F1592616-echo%2F&data=02%7C01%7Cchristophe.vielle%40uclouvain.be%7C40256ed0ddeb4838a5e308d7d04fdf88%7C7ab090d4fa2e4ecfbc7c4127b4d582ec%7C0%7C0%7C637206913780281782&sdata=sEdcDTcXbqADX70Db4AWaA%2Fry7tTTXC20sEDuRqym2Y%3D&reserved=0>. 
> 
> best,
> Andrey
> On Mar 24, 2020 11:57 +0100, Sven Sellmer via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info <mailto:indology at list.indology.info>>, wrote:
>> Dear All!
>> 
>> One may also add a passage of Hermann Hesse's "Glasperlenspiel" here, though also rather in the category of useful uselessness:
>> 
>> ? schon manche von ihnen haben ihr Leben an sehr entlegene und oft wunderliche Arbeiten gewendet, wie etwa jener Lodovicus crudelis, der in drei?igj?hriger Arbeit alle ?berlieferten alt?gyptischen Texte sowohl ins Griechiche wie ins Sanskrit ?bersetzt hat ?
>> 
>> ? not few of them devoted their lives to very marginal and often rather strange occupations, like one Lodovicus crudelis, who in the course of thirty years translated all preserved Old Egyptian texts both into Greek and into Sanskrit ? 
>> 
>> Best wishes,
>> Sven
>> 
>> ****************************
>> Sven Sellmer, PhD
>> Adam Mickiewicz University
>> Institute of Oriental Studies
>> Department of South Asian Studies
>> ul. Grunwaldzka 6 <https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com%2Fmaps%2Fsearch%2FGrunwaldzka%2B6%2B%250D%250A%2B60-780%2BPozna%25C5%2584%2B%250D%250A%2BPOLAND%3Fentry%3Dgmail%26source%3Dg&data=02%7C01%7Cchristophe.vielle%40uclouvain.be%7C40256ed0ddeb4838a5e308d7d04fdf88%7C7ab090d4fa2e4ecfbc7c4127b4d582ec%7C0%7C0%7C637206913780281782&sdata=hRJ7u7b46XKDO4QPbxj0Iv3y8bMnhjQMnq9%2Fc%2Fp%2BytU%3D&reserved=0>
>> 60-780 Pozna? <https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com%2Fmaps%2Fsearch%2FGrunwaldzka%2B6%2B%250D%250A%2B60-780%2BPozna%25C5%2584%2B%250D%250A%2BPOLAND%3Fentry%3Dgmail%26source%3Dg&data=02%7C01%7Cchristophe.vielle%40uclouvain.be%7C40256ed0ddeb4838a5e308d7d04fdf88%7C7ab090d4fa2e4ecfbc7c4127b4d582ec%7C0%7C0%7C637206913780291784&sdata=x3%2BTBKDvVWVHnxn7yBfpmnEeyg6RHrG7t6zWaOOSa6w%3D&reserved=0>
>> POLAND <https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com%2Fmaps%2Fsearch%2FGrunwaldzka%2B6%2B%250D%250A%2B60-780%2BPozna%25C5%2584%2B%250D%250A%2BPOLAND%3Fentry%3Dgmail%26source%3Dg&data=02%7C01%7Cchristophe.vielle%40uclouvain.be%7C40256ed0ddeb4838a5e308d7d04fdf88%7C7ab090d4fa2e4ecfbc7c4127b4d582ec%7C0%7C0%7C637206913780301777&sdata=MMsdpQy7AnrxqYnJhX4qtpmUuwDWkR2Ons5B4NRC4jY%3D&reserved=0>
>> sven.sellmer at amu.edu.pl <mailto:sven.sellmer at amu.edu.pl>
>> 
>>> Am 24.03.2020 um 11:24 schrieb patrick mccartney via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info <mailto:indology at list.indology.info>>:
>>> 
>>> Sort of related, on page 100 of chapter 5, of Amazing Stories (1943) issue 17 no 05, the following is said: 
>>> She put her hands on her hips, her  
>>> face thoughtful. Then she grabbed hold  
>>> of the grab-rail on the side of the door-  
>>> way, stepped into the bipedomobile.  
>>> She wasn?t a tall girl, but she had to  
>>> stoop.  
>>> 
>>> Her eyes were grave. Suddenly she  
>>> pointed into the distance.  
>>> 
>>> ?Godwa te lele!?  
>>> 
>>> ?It?s all Sanskrit to me, Jamie,? he  
>>> said sadly. ?They?ve sure done you up  
>>> brown, haven?t they ? ^you?ve forgotten  
>>> entirely, haven?t you? Well, if you want  
>>> to go in that direction, okay. It?s as  
>>> good as any, and maybe we?ll solve a  
>>> few mysteries while we?re at it. We  
>>> might even find out how to get your  
>>> memory back again.?  
>>> 
>>> She smiled dazzlingly. She pointed  
>>> again.
>>> This link will take you to the relevant page - https://archive.org/details/Amazing_Stories_v17n05_1943-05_cape1736/page/n99/mode/2up/search/sanskrit <https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Farchive.org%2Fdetails%2FAmazing_Stories_v17n05_1943-05_cape1736%2Fpage%2Fn99%2Fmode%2F2up%2Fsearch%2Fsanskrit&data=02%7C01%7Cchristophe.vielle%40uclouvain.be%7C40256ed0ddeb4838a5e308d7d04fdf88%7C7ab090d4fa2e4ecfbc7c4127b4d582ec%7C0%7C0%7C637206913780301777&sdata=fepDQ26EOHnBYFmAlHjmoegKwXL69viKOuZhIE4QNkw%3D&reserved=0>
>>> 
>>> All the best,
>>> 
>>> ?????????????
>>> Patrick McCartney, PhD
>>> Research Affiliate - Organization for Identity and Cultural Development (OICD), Kyoto
>>> Research Associate - Nanzan University Anthropological Institute, Nagoya, Japan
>>> Visiting Fellow - South and South-east Asian Studies Department, Australian National University
>>> Member - South Asia Research Institute (SARI), Australian National University
>>> 
>>> Skype / Zoom - psdmccartney
>>> Phone + Whatsapp + Line:  +61410644259
>>> Twitter - @psdmccartney @yogascapesinjap
>>>  Yogascapes in Japan <https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fyogascapes.weebly.com%2F&data=02%7C01%7Cchristophe.vielle%40uclouvain.be%7C40256ed0ddeb4838a5e308d7d04fdf88%7C7ab090d4fa2e4ecfbc7c4127b4d582ec%7C0%7C0%7C637206913780311772&sdata=my0LFsuaZBcbo1aPg3usgRR4QqxQjKLucc2hV84e2JA%3D&reserved=0> Academia <https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fpatrickmccartney.academia.edu%2F&data=02%7C01%7Cchristophe.vielle%40uclouvain.be%7C40256ed0ddeb4838a5e308d7d04fdf88%7C7ab090d4fa2e4ecfbc7c4127b4d582ec%7C0%7C0%7C637206913780311772&sdata=HSzACfx8fwRE762IOp%2BIQsFn63N7wL8pWXCb8pJnABY%3D&reserved=0> Linkedin <https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.linkedin.com%2Fprofile%2Fview%3Fid%3D241756978%26trk%3Dnav_responsive_tab_profile&data=02%7C01%7Cchristophe.vielle%40uclouvain.be%7C40256ed0ddeb4838a5e308d7d04fdf88%7C7ab090d4fa2e4ecfbc7c4127b4d582ec%7C0%7C0%7C637206913780321769&sdata=iF5MqCLKGXMFUJoorer1hZm9YPL8osDRUJ8QVwumGnM%3D&reserved=0> Modern Yoga Research <https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.modernyogaresearch.org%2Fevents%2F&data=02%7C01%7Cchristophe.vielle%40uclouvain.be%7C40256ed0ddeb4838a5e308d7d04fdf88%7C7ab090d4fa2e4ecfbc7c4127b4d582ec%7C0%7C0%7C637206913780331763&sdata=e7IdTC4ss7TQE3ZO%2FrmwERkxdkIEgQaH2wbDT9HM0t0%3D&reserved=0>
>>> 
>>> bodhap?rvam calema ;-)
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On Tue, Mar 24, 2020 at 6:38 PM Matthew Kapstein via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info <mailto:indology at list.indology.info>> wrote:
>>> This reminds me that one of my teachers, the great Prof. Padmanabh Jaini, lost several students in the late 70s because the job market seemed particularly bad. They switched to law and easily passed the special examinations, the "Law Boards," for entering American Law Schools. Jaini joked that the field could be saved and even expanded by converting Sanskrit to a pre-law required course.
>>> 
>>> Matthew Kapstein
>>> Directeur d'?tudes, ?m?rite
>>> Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes, Paris
>>> 
>>> Numata Visiting Professor of Buddhist Studies,
>>> The University of Chicago
>>> From: INDOLOGY <indology-bounces at list.indology.info <mailto:indology-bounces at list.indology.info>> on behalf of Christophe Vielle via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info <mailto:indology at list.indology.info>>
>>> Sent: Tuesday, March 24, 2020 4:32 AM
>>> To: Tieken, H.J.H. <H.J.H.Tieken at hum.leidenuniv.nl <mailto:H.J.H.Tieken at hum.leidenuniv.nl>>
>>> Cc: indology <indology at list.indology.info <mailto:indology at list.indology.info>>
>>> Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] The study of Sanskrit as the epitome of uselessness
>>>  
>>> The Classicist Nuccio Ordine has published a stimulating (useful) essay "De l'utilit? de l'inutile" (English translation: The Usefulness of the Useless").
>>> where Sanskrit studies, together with Classics, are given as an example of (useful) usefulness, cf. p. 95 of the Engl. Transl.:
>>> https://books.google.com/books?id=NCArDgAAQBAJ <https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fbooks.google.be%2Fbooks%3Fid%3DNCArDgAAQBAJ%26pg%3DPA95%26lpg%3DPA95%26dq%3Dnuccio%2Bordine%2Bthe%2Busefulness%2Bof%2Bthe%2Buseless%2Bsanskrit%26source%3Dbl%26ots%3DJmMiqWAORS%26sig%3DACfU3U0_SDl4ZpYaNsGhUnflgLpFvJYTDg%26hl%3Den%26sa%3DX%26ved%3D2ahUKEwj-rMSM5bLoAhXEMewKHYVdDp4Q6AEwAXoECAoQAQ%23v%3Donepage%26q%3Dnuccio%2520ordine%2520the%2520usefulness%2520of%2520the%2520useless%2520sanskrit%26f%3Dfalse&data=02%7C01%7Cchristophe.vielle%40uclouvain.be%7C40256ed0ddeb4838a5e308d7d04fdf88%7C7ab090d4fa2e4ecfbc7c4127b4d582ec%7C0%7C0%7C637206913780331763&sdata=q2LGOUxS9kLJgmxM36DwTNlDcDoe%2FnnX7DievE5sxH0%3D&reserved=0>
>>> See also it in his oral presentations:
>>> https://uclouvain.be/en/research-institutes/incal/conference-du-pr-nuccio-ordine.html <https://uclouvain.be/en/research-institutes/incal/conference-du-pr-nuccio-ordine.html>
>>> Quel danger courons-nous actuellement ? Dans une universit?-entreprise, quand un professeur de sanskrit aura deux ?tudiants, le Conseil d?administration de l?Universit? pourra dire que celle-ci ne peut pas se permettre le luxe de payer un professeur de sanskrit pour deux ?tudiants. Demain, cela sera pour dix ?tudiants en grec, et apr?s-demain pour quinze ?tudiants en latin.
>>> 
>>>> Le 24 mars 2020 ? 09:49, Tieken, H.J.H. via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info <mailto:indology at list.indology.info>> a ?crit :
>>>> 
>>>> Dear List members,
>>>> Last night I started reading Ever After by Graham Swift. On p. 3 of the pocket edition (Vintage International) of 1993 we hear the protagonist think:
>>>> 
>>>> "Before they [academics] are sixty, they are emulating one of the many varieties: ... the wide-eyed, latter-day infant, helpless in all mundane matters but possessed of a profound understanding of Sanskrit."
>>>> 
>>>> A few months ago I was reading Nader tot U (1969) by Gerard van 't Reve gain. One of the characters has to fill in a profession on an official paper. In the end he decides to fill in "indoloog", which is considered to be better than "general in the Hungarian army" or "stratenmaker of zee" (general dogsbody) (p. 113). There is some confusion if indoloog refers to a civil servant in the Dutch Indies here (Indie verloren, rampspoed geboren) or to an indologist, which is later resolved by remarks about gurus and bhakti. I was amazed to see that I had bought the book in the summer of 1970, just a few months before I started with the study of Sanskrit.
>>>> 
>>>> Are there more accidental references of this type to sanskritists or indologists in literature?
>>>> (Leaving aside Lee Siegel's novel about Professor Roth being killed by Monier-Williams Sanskrit dictionary.)
>>>> 
>>>> With kind regards Herman
>>>> 
>>>> Herman Tieken
>>>> Stationsweg 58 <https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com%2Fmaps%2Fsearch%2FStationsweg%2B58%2B%250D%250A%2B2515%2BBP%2BDen%2BHaag%2B%250D%250A%2BThe%2BNetherlands%3Fentry%3Dgmail%26source%3Dg&data=02%7C01%7Cchristophe.vielle%40uclouvain.be%7C40256ed0ddeb4838a5e308d7d04fdf88%7C7ab090d4fa2e4ecfbc7c4127b4d582ec%7C0%7C0%7C637206913780341764&sdata=STlWaWsjDPhBnLYa5Ke%2B4zVFn1amtKs5szWk%2FjMFWE0%3D&reserved=0>
>>>> 2515 BP Den Haag <https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com%2Fmaps%2Fsearch%2FStationsweg%2B58%2B%250D%250A%2B2515%2BBP%2BDen%2BHaag%2B%250D%250A%2BThe%2BNetherlands%3Fentry%3Dgmail%26source%3Dg&data=02%7C01%7Cchristophe.vielle%40uclouvain.be%7C40256ed0ddeb4838a5e308d7d04fdf88%7C7ab090d4fa2e4ecfbc7c4127b4d582ec%7C0%7C0%7C637206913780341764&sdata=STlWaWsjDPhBnLYa5Ke%2B4zVFn1amtKs5szWk%2FjMFWE0%3D&reserved=0>
>>>> The Netherlands <https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com%2Fmaps%2Fsearch%2FStationsweg%2B58%2B%250D%250A%2B2515%2BBP%2BDen%2BHaag%2B%250D%250A%2BThe%2BNetherlands%3Fentry%3Dgmail%26source%3Dg&data=02%7C01%7Cchristophe.vielle%40uclouvain.be%7C40256ed0ddeb4838a5e308d7d04fdf88%7C7ab090d4fa2e4ecfbc7c4127b4d582ec%7C0%7C0%7C637206913780351759&sdata=rKd2IbPaMOdA1ismT9Iag1wljwqrvfOXmurawU6MHDk%3D&reserved=0>
>>>> 00 31 (0)70 2208127
>>>> website: hermantieken.com <https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fhermantieken.com%2F&data=02%7C01%7Cchristophe.vielle%40uclouvain.be%7C40256ed0ddeb4838a5e308d7d04fdf88%7C7ab090d4fa2e4ecfbc7c4127b4d582ec%7C0%7C0%7C637206913780361756&sdata=MP1CBeAat2LFaniQsnXypru0oM%2BYpMzHkLm726%2FVeZg%3D&reserved=0>_______________________________________________
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>>> 
>>> ???????????????????
>>> Christophe Vielle <https://uclouvain.be/en/directories/christophe.vielle>
>>> Louvain-la-Neuve
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
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>> 
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> -- 
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> 
> 
> -- 
> Patricia Sauthoff
> (she/her/they/them)
> Postdoctoral Fellow
> AyurYog.org <https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fayuryog.org%2F&data=02%7C01%7Cchristophe.vielle%40uclouvain.be%7C40256ed0ddeb4838a5e308d7d04fdf88%7C7ab090d4fa2e4ecfbc7c4127b4d582ec%7C0%7C0%7C637206913780401732&sdata=yMx2KwEOAh6Gdf%2F4ghQ6eHyupQdMZUiePRDVpmeG9%2BI%3D&reserved=0>
> Department of History and Classics
> University of Alberta
> Edmonton, Canada
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???????????????????
Christophe Vielle <https://uclouvain.be/en/directories/christophe.vielle>
Louvain-la-Neuve





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From opfallon at yahoo.com  Wed Mar 25 09:06:44 2020
From: opfallon at yahoo.com (Oliver Fallon)
Date: Wed, 25 Mar 20 09:06:44 +0000
Subject: [INDOLOGY] The study of Sanskrit as the epitome of uselessness
In-Reply-To: <F46FE989-0D54-40FF-ABFD-E46C12CB7085@uclouvain.be>
Message-ID: <440839388.3297953.1585127204379@mail.yahoo.com>

 Dear Colleagues,?In?ONE HUNDRED YEARSOF SOLITUDE by GABRIEL GARCIA MARQUEZ (TRANS. GREGORY RABASSA) :
Aureliano had finished classifying the alphabet of the parchments, so that whenMelqu?ades asked him if he had discovered the language in which they had been writtenhe did not hesitate to answer.???Sanskrit,? he said.??Melqu?ades revealed to him that his opportunities to return to the room were limited.But he would go in peace to the meadows of the ultimate death because Aureliano wouldhave time to learn Sanskrit during the years remaining until the parchments became onehundred years old, when they could be deciphered. It was he who indicated to Aureliano that on the narrow street going down to the river, where dreams had been interpretedduring the time of the banana company, a wise Catalonian had a bookstore where therewas a Sanskrit primer, which would be eaten by the moths within six years if he did nothurry to buy it. For the first time in her long life Santa Sof?a de la Piedad let a feelingshow through, and it was a feeling of wonderment when Aureliano asked her to bring himthe book that could be found between Jerusalem Delivered and Milton?s poems on theextreme right-hand side of the second shelf of the bookcases. Since she could not read,she memorized what he had said and got some money by selling one of the seventeenlittle gold fishes left in the workshop, the whereabouts of which, after being hidden thenight the soldiers searched the house, was known only by her and Aureliano.??Aureliano made progress in his studies of Sanskrit as Melqu?ades? visits became lessand less frequent and he was more distant, fading away in the radiant light of noon. Thelast time that Aureliano sensed him he was only an invisible presence who murmured: ?Idied of fever on the sands of Singapore.? The room then became vulnerable to dust, heat,termites, red ants, and moths, who would turn the wisdom of the parchments intosawdust.
Best wishes,Oliver Fallon
    On Wednesday, 25 March 2020, 08:52:31 GMT, Christophe Vielle via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info> wrote:  
 
 A quick search in?Marcel Proust's "? la recherche du temps perdu", provides the following extracts:
Alors le solitaire languit seul. Il n'a d'autre plaisir que d'aller ? la station de bains de mer voisine demander un renseignement ? un certain employ? de chemin de fer. Mais celui-ci a re?u de l'avancement, est nomm? ? l'autre bout de la France?; le solitaire ne pourra plus aller lui demander l'heure des trains, le prix des premi?res, et avant de rentrer r?ver dans sa tour, comme Gris?lidis, il s'attarde sur la plage, telle une ?trange Androm?de qu'aucun Argonaute ne viendra d?livrer, comme une m?duse st?rile qui p?rira sur le sable, ou bien il reste paresseusement, avant le d?part du train, sur le quai, ? jeter sur la foule des voyageurs un regard qui semblera indiff?rent, d?daigneux ou distrait ? ceux d'une autre race, mais qui, comme l'?clat lumineux dont se parent certains insectes pour attirer ceux de la m?me esp?ce, ou comme le nectar qu'offrent certaines fleurs pour attirer les insectes qui les f?conderont, ne tromperait pas l'amateur presque introuvable d'un plaisir trop singulier, trop difficile ? placer, qui lui est offert, le confr?re avec qui notre sp?cialiste pourrait parler la langue insolite?; tout au plus ? celle-ci quelque loqueteux du quai fera-t-il semblant de s'int?resser, mais pour un b?n?fice mat?riel seulement, comme ceux qui, au Coll?ge de France, dans la salle o? le professeur de sanscrit parle sans auditeur, vont suivre le cours, mais seulement pour se chauffer.
Ou plut?t non, un Institut de psychophysiologie sp?ciale vous conviendrait mieux. Et je vous vois surtout pourvu d'une chaire au Coll?ge de France, vous permettant de vous livrer ? des ?tudes personnelles dont vous livreriez les r?sultats, comme fait le professeur de tamoul ou de sanscrit devant le tr?s petit nombre de personnes que cela int?resse.

Eh bien?! si sp?ciales que soient ces guerres balkaniques, Lull?-Burgas c'est encore Ulm, l'enveloppement par l'aile. Voil? les sujets dont tu peux me parler. Mais pour le genre de choses auxquelles tu fais allusion, je m'y connais autant qu'en sanscrit.
https://alarecherchedutempsperdu.orghttps://alarecherchedutempsperdu.org/marcel-proust/

Le 25 mars 2020 ? 01:02, Jeffery Long via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info> a ?crit :
Dear Patricia,
As a Missouri native, I particularly appreciate this one!
All the best,Jeff
Dr. Jeffery D. Long
Professor of Religion and Asian Studies
Elizabethtown CollegeElizabethtown, PA
https://etown.academia.edu/JefferyLong
Series Editor,?Explorations in Indic Traditions: Theological, Ethical, and PhilosophicalLexington Books
"One who makes a habit of prayer and meditation will easily overcome all difficulties and remain calm and unruffled in the midst of the trials of life." ?(Holy Mother Sarada Devi)
"We are a way for the Cosmos to know itself." (Carl Sagan)
 

    On Tuesday, March 24, 2020, 07:59:20 PM EDT, Patricia Sauthoff via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info> wrote:  
 
 The Secret History?by Donna Tartt
p. 50?
"You get along with Henry?
?"Oh, sure thing," said Bunny, reared back in his chair. "We were roommates. Freshman year."?
"And you like him?"?
"Certainly, certainly. He's a hard fellow to live with though. Hates noise, hates company, hates mess. None of this brining your date back to the room to listen to a couple Art Pepper records, if you know what I'm trying to get at."?"I think he's sort of rude."?
Buddy shrugged. "That's his way. See, his mind doesn't work the same way yours and mine do. He's always up in the clouds with Plato or something. Works too hard, takes himself too seriously, studying Sanskrit and Coptic and those other nutty languages. Henry, I tell him, if you're going to waste your time learning something besides Greek -- that and the King's English are all I think a man needs, personally -- why don't you buy yourself some Berlitz records and brush up on your French. Find a little can-can girl or something. Voolay-voo coushay avec moi and all that."
"How many languages does he know?"
"I lost count. Seven or eight. He can read hieroglyphics."
"Wow."?Bunny shook his head fondly. "He's a genius, that boy. He could be a translator for the UN if he wanted to be."?
"Where's he from?"?
"Missouri."?

p. 356 also has a [not historically great] description of Buddhist Tantra.
On Tue, Mar 24, 2020 at 1:21 PM Deven Patel via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info> wrote:

>From a review of the Broadway play Spamalot in the New York Times in 2006.? I had an amusing email back-and-forth with the critic when I jokingly asked him if he could've used another metaphor...
"In "Spamalot," of course, the horseplay's the thing. And in a world of juvenile antics, a gift for Shakespearean tragedy would seem to be about as useful as a doctorate in Sanskrit."

On Tuesday, March 24, 2020, Jesse Knutson via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info> wrote:

Speaking of my dear friend Lee Siegel: he often tells the story that he only decided to study Sanskrit after hearing a speech of Richard Nixon the California senator (before he became president), in which the latter quipped that the University of California's budget should be slashed because 'instead of doing anything useful, they are studying things like Sanskrit'.?
On Tue, Mar 24, 2020, 4:30 AM Walser, Joseph via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info> wrote:

One of my favorites, although I am having difficulty finding the source, is: "A knowledge of Sanskrit is of little use to a man trapped in a sewer." The internet tells me that this is attributed to Tom Weller, but I suspect that he got it from someone else.Greetings from the sewer.

-j


Joseph Walser

Associate Professor

Department of Religion

Tufts University
From: INDOLOGY [indology-bounces at list.indology.info] on behalf of Madhav Deshpande via INDOLOGY [indology at list.indology.info]
Sent: Tuesday, March 24, 2020 9:41 AM
To: Andrey Klebanov
Cc: indology
Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] The study of Sanskrit as the epitome of uselessness

Here is my description of what we as Indoloogs do:

???????? ?????: ???????????? ????? ????????: ?

??????? ????????????? ?? ????????????: ??




Hope it makes you laugh at ourselves!

Madhav M. DeshpandeProfessor Emeritus, Sanskrit and LinguisticsUniversity of Michigan, Ann Arbor, Michigan, USASenior Fellow, Oxford Center for Hindu Studies

[Residence: Campbell, California, USA]


On Tue, Mar 24, 2020 at 4:56 AM Andrey Klebanov via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info> wrote:

?To study Sanskrit? (????? ????????) became a rather popular idiom (a kind of meme) in Russia in 2015, and it has been used since then?frequently?exactly as an epitome of a useless time-consuming and exhausting activity, which, in a long run,?may be?still more rewarding than engaging in Russian politics (especially as a member of the opposition). It was popularized by journalistOleg Kashin, who has famously used this expression (the original wording was actually slightly different) in his debate with politician Alexey Navalny, who, in 2015, campaigned for opposition parties to participate at regional elections at any cost. See, for example, here or here. The original debate is here.?
best,
AndreyOn Mar 24, 2020 11:57 +0100, Sven Sellmer via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info>, wrote:

Dear All!
One may also add a passage of Hermann Hesse's "Glasperlenspiel" here, though also rather in the category of useful uselessness:
? schon manche von ihnen haben ihr Leben an sehr entlegene und oft wunderliche Arbeiten gewendet, wie etwa jener Lodovicus crudelis, der in drei?igj?hriger Arbeit alle ?berlieferten alt?gyptischen Texte sowohl ins Griechiche wie ins Sanskrit ?bersetzt hat ?
? not few of them devoted their lives to very marginal and often rather strange occupations, like one Lodovicus crudelis, who in the course of thirty years translated all preserved Old Egyptian texts both into Greek and into Sanskrit ??
Best wishes,Sven
****************************
Sven Sellmer, PhD
Adam Mickiewicz University
Institute?of Oriental Studies
Department of South Asian Studies
ul. Grunwaldzka 6
60-780 Pozna?
POLAND
sven.sellmer at amu.edu.pl


Am 24.03.2020 um 11:24 schrieb patrick mccartney via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info>:
Sort of related, on page 100 of chapter 5, of?Amazing Stories (1943) issue 17 no 05,?the following is said:?She put her hands on her hips, her  
face thoughtful. Then she grabbed hold  
of the grab-rail on the side of the door-  
way, stepped into the bipedomobile.  
She wasn?t a tall girl, but she had to  
stoop.  

Her eyes were grave. Suddenly she  
pointed into the distance.  

?Godwa te lele!?  

?It?s all Sanskrit to me, Jamie,? he  
said sadly. ?They?ve sure done you up  
brown, haven?t they ? ^you?ve forgotten  
entirely, haven?t you? Well, if you want  
to go in that direction, okay. It?s as  
good as any, and maybe we?ll solve a  
few mysteries while we?re at it. We  
might even find out how to get your  
memory back again.?  

She smiled dazzlingly. She pointed  
again.This link will take you to the relevant page -?https://archive.org/details/Amazing_Stories_v17n05_1943-05_cape1736/page/n99/mode/2up/search/sanskrit
All the best,

?????????????
Patrick McCartney, PhDResearch Affiliate - Organization for Identity and Cultural Development (OICD), Kyoto
Research Associate - Nanzan University Anthropological Institute, Nagoya, JapanVisiting Fellow - South and South-east Asian Studies Department,?Australian National UniversityMember - South Asia Research Institute (SARI), Australian National University
Skype / Zoom - psdmccartneyPhone + Whatsapp + Line: ?+61410644259Twitter - @psdmccartney @yogascapesinjap
?Yogascapes in Japan?Academia?Linkedin?Modern Yoga Research
bodhap?rvam calema ;-)

?



   
   - 









On Tue, Mar 24, 2020 at 6:38 PM Matthew Kapstein via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info> wrote:

This reminds me that one of my teachers, the great Prof. Padmanabh Jaini, lost several students in the late 70s because the job market seemed particularly bad. They switched to law and easily passed the special examinations, the "Law Boards," for entering American Law Schools. Jaini joked that the field could be saved and even expanded by converting Sanskrit to a pre-law required course.

Matthew Kapstein
Directeur d'?tudes,?m?rite
Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes, Paris

Numata Visiting Professor of Buddhist Studies,
The University of Chicago
From: INDOLOGY <indology-bounces at list.indology.info> on behalf of Christophe Vielle via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info>
Sent: Tuesday, March 24, 2020 4:32 AM
To: Tieken, H.J.H. <H.J.H.Tieken at hum.leidenuniv.nl>
Cc: indology <indology at list.indology.info>
Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] The study of Sanskrit as the epitome of uselessness?The Classicist Nuccio Ordine has published a stimulating (useful) essay "De l'utilit? de l'inutile" (English translation: The Usefulness of the Useless").where Sanskrit studies, together with Classics, are given as an example of (useful) usefulness, cf. p. 95 of the Engl. Transl.:https://books.google.com/books?id=NCArDgAAQBAJSee also it in his oral presentations:https://uclouvain.be/en/research-institutes/incal/conference-du-pr-nuccio-ordine.htmlQuel danger courons-nous actuellement ? Dans une universit?-entreprise, quand un professeur de sanskrit aura deux ?tudiants, le Conseil d?administration de l?Universit? pourra dire que celle-ci ne peut pas se permettre le luxe de payer un professeur de sanskrit pour deux ?tudiants. Demain, cela sera pour dix ?tudiants en grec, et apr?s-demain pour quinze ?tudiants en latin.

Le 24 mars 2020 ? 09:49, Tieken, H.J.H. via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info> a ?crit :
Dear List members,Last night I started reading Ever After by Graham Swift. On p. 3 of the pocket edition (Vintage International) of 1993 we hear the protagonist think:
"Before they [academics] are sixty, they are emulating one of the many varieties: ... the wide-eyed,?latter-day infant, helpless in all mundane matters but possessed of a profound understanding of Sanskrit."
A few months ago I was reading Nader tot U (1969) by Gerard van 't Reve gain. One of the characters has to fill in a profession on an official paper. In the end he decides to fill in "indoloog", which is considered to be better than "general in the?Hungarian army"?or "stratenmaker of zee" (general dogsbody) (p. 113). There is some confusion if indoloog refers to a civil servant in the Dutch Indies here (Indie verloren, rampspoed geboren) or to an indologist, which is later resolved by remarks about gurus and bhakti. I was amazed to see that I had bought the book in the summer of?1970, just a few?months before I started with the study of Sanskrit.
Are there more accidental references of this type to sanskritists or indologists in literature?(Leaving aside Lee Siegel's novel about Professor Roth being killed by Monier-Williams Sanskrit dictionary.)
With kind regards Herman
Herman TiekenStationsweg 582515 BP Den HaagThe Netherlands00 31 (0)70 2208127
website:?hermantieken.com_______________________________________________
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???????????????????
Christophe Vielle
Louvain-la-Neuve


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-- 
Deven M. Patel
University of Pennsylvania

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-- 
Patricia Sauthoff(she/her/they/them)
Postdoctoral Fellow
AyurYog.org
Department of History and Classics
University of Alberta
Edmonton, Canada_______________________________________________
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???????????????????
Christophe Vielle
Louvain-la-Neuve


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From raik.strunz at indologie.uni-halle.de  Wed Mar 25 09:23:59 2020
From: raik.strunz at indologie.uni-halle.de (Raik Strunz)
Date: Wed, 25 Mar 20 10:23:59 +0100
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Pdf request: Janert 1955/56
Message-ID: <5E7B313F020000C3000A8E34@gwia0.itz.uni-halle.de>

Dear List members,
I would like to know if someone would have a pdf of the following
publication and would be willing to share it:
Klaus Ludwig Janert ? Von der Art und den Mitteln der indischen
Textweitergabe (1955/1956).

Many thanks in advance,


Raik Strunz









???????????




Raik Strunz, M.A.


Wissenschaftlicher Mitarbeiter
Email: raik.strunz at indologie.uni-halle.de
Tel.: +49 345 / 55 23655 


Martin-Luther-Universit?t Halle-Wittenberg
Institut f?r Altertumswissenschaften
Seminar f?r Indologie
Emil-Abderhalden-Stra?e 9
D-06108 Halle (Saale)


www.indologie.uni-halle.de


???????????


??????????? ??????? ?
 




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From mmdesh at umich.edu  Wed Mar 25 14:01:04 2020
From: mmdesh at umich.edu (Madhav Deshpande)
Date: Wed, 25 Mar 20 07:01:04 -0700
Subject: [INDOLOGY] A distraction from the Coronavirus
Message-ID: <CAB3-dzfr0ERCqH628uvuZbgfEjExN+o0TwhYaoSt9i2ZwhLi7A@mail.gmail.com>

A distraction from the Coronavirus -

??????? ??? ????? ???? ??????? ???? ?
?????????????????? ????????? ???? ??

Damayanti said to Nala: ?O Nala, how can I choose you [for my husband
today]. After the Coronavirus goes away, please come back.?

Madhav M. Deshpande
Professor Emeritus, Sanskrit and Linguistics
University of Michigan, Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA
Senior Fellow, Oxford Center for Hindu Studies

[Residence: Campbell, California, USA]


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From vasishtha.spier at gmail.com  Wed Mar 25 15:42:27 2020
From: vasishtha.spier at gmail.com (Harry Spier)
Date: Wed, 25 Mar 20 11:42:27 -0400
Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_[INDOLOGY]=09Meaning_of_abhagnam=C4=81nam_in_this_verse?=
In-Reply-To: <CAB3-dzd3vqaHaKx+f7G0DCB-YvPHyXkdB1tk-8x7=1VfSq3SzQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAJ3b0o-haYoUJNjmHwM2bOj7G1E_MAd+n9hztkZLO0iepPLcvA@mail.gmail.com>

Thank you Madhav,

Very clear.
Harry

On Tue, Mar 24, 2020 at 11:39 PM Madhav Deshpande <mmdesh at umich.edu> wrote:

> Dear Harry,
>
>     Compare Bhartr?hari's verse:
>
> ????????????????????????
> ???? ?????? ???????????? ? ?
> ???? ????????? ?????? ????????????
> ???? ???????? ?????????? ???????? ??
>
> The verse suggests that a dog is willing to go through his ??????? in
> order to get his food, while the proud elephant is not.  In the verse
> ?????? ?????????? ??? ???????: ???????:, the term ??????? is used.  The
> expression ????????? ??????? in my view refers to the kind of life where
> one's pride is not broken by the circumstances, and that one can only
> preserve one's pride ????? only with  qualities like ???????-??????-????.
>
> Madhav
>
> Madhav M. Deshpande
> Professor Emeritus, Sanskrit and Linguistics
> University of Michigan, Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA
> Senior Fellow, Oxford Center for Hindu Studies
>
> [Residence: Campbell, California, USA]
>
>
> On Tue, Mar 24, 2020 at 7:19 PM Harry Spier via INDOLOGY <
> indology at list.indology.info> wrote:
>
>> Dear list members,
>>
>> Like many on this list I'm now at home and passing the time by reading
>> sanskrit. I'm going through the Panchatantra.
>> Verse 1.34 is:
>>
>> yaj j?vyate k?a?am api prathita? manu?yair vij??navikramaya?obhir
>> abhagnam?nam tan n?ma j?vitam iha pravadanti tajj??? k?ko 'pi j?vati cira?
>> ca bali? ca bhu?kte |
>>
>> which Patrick Olivelle translates as:
>>
>> "If his repute is spread wide among men, if he lacks not wisdom, courage,
>> or fame, 'That's true life in this world." the wise say: even crows live
>> long, but they live on scraps."
>>
>> and Edgerton translates as:
>>
>> Real life in this world, the wise say, is only that which is lived,
>> perchance only for a brief season, yet known to fame among men, and not
>> lacking in wisdom, prowess, or glory. A very crow lives a long time and
>> devours the food that is thrown to it.
>>
>> I'm not clear what abhagnam?nam means in the verse and how it fits into
>> these translations.
>>
>> Bohtlingk-Roth for  abhagnam?nam has Adj. *wobei die Ehre nicht leidet*
>> which I think means something like "whereby honor doesn't suffer" which
>> even more confuses me.
>>
>> Any help would be appreciated.
>>
>> Harry Spier
>> _______________________________________________
>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
>> committee)
>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
>> unsubscribe)
>>
>


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From wujastyk at gmail.com  Wed Mar 25 15:45:09 2020
From: wujastyk at gmail.com (Dominik Wujastyk)
Date: Wed, 25 Mar 20 09:45:09 -0600
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Nick Allen
In-Reply-To: <mailman.634.1585083627.9143.indology_list.indology.info@list.indology.info>
Message-ID: <CAKdt-CetcPu9y5iWGm9SskKZT_wVfK6BDWbTwBCBAo1BNOP=YQ@mail.gmail.com>

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Ithamar Theodor <theodor at orange.net.il>
To: indology-bounces at list.indology.info
Cc:
Bcc:
Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2020 22:59:50 +0200
Subject: RE: [INDOLOGY] Nick Allen

I, too, would miss Nick Allen; he was very much a central figure within the
Oxford Indological community and I just saw him a few months ago at
Wolfson. My condolences to his family and friends.



             Ithamar Theodor


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From hhhock at illinois.edu  Wed Mar 25 15:51:40 2020
From: hhhock at illinois.edu (Hock, Hans Henrich)
Date: Wed, 25 Mar 20 15:51:40 +0000
Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_[INDOLOGY]_Meaning_of_abhagnam=C4=81nam_in_this_verse?=
In-Reply-To: <CAB3-dzd3vqaHaKx+f7G0DCB-YvPHyXkdB1tk-8x7=1VfSq3SzQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4C0C4300-0D2E-45CC-A54E-222C6735CDA4@illinois.edu>

In other words, ???????? is a bahuvr?hi ? ?????? ???? ???: ?? ????????:

So the BR gloss catches the spirit, even if not the exact grammatical construction.

Best wishes,

HHH


On 24 Mar2020, at 22:38, Madhav Deshpande via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info<mailto:indology at list.indology.info>> wrote:

Dear Harry,

    Compare Bhartr?hari's verse:

????????????????????????
???? ?????? ???????????? ? ?
???? ????????? ?????? ????????????
???? ???????? ?????????? ???????? ??

The verse suggests that a dog is willing to go through his ??????? in order to get his food, while the proud elephant is not.  In the verse ?????? ?????????? ??? ???????: ???????:, the term ??????? is used.  The expression ????????? ??????? in my view refers to the kind of life where one's pride is not broken by the circumstances, and that one can only preserve one's pride ????? only with  qualities like ???????-??????-????.

Madhav

Madhav M. Deshpande
Professor Emeritus, Sanskrit and Linguistics
University of Michigan, Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA
Senior Fellow, Oxford Center for Hindu Studies

[Residence: Campbell, California, USA]


On Tue, Mar 24, 2020 at 7:19 PM Harry Spier via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info<mailto:indology at list.indology.info>> wrote:
Dear list members,

Like many on this list I'm now at home and passing the time by reading sanskrit. I'm going through the Panchatantra.
Verse 1.34 is:

yaj j?vyate k?a?am api prathita? manu?yair vij??navikramaya?obhir abhagnam?nam tan n?ma j?vitam iha pravadanti tajj??? k?ko 'pi j?vati cira? ca bali? ca bhu?kte |

which Patrick Olivelle translates as:

"If his repute is spread wide among men, if he lacks not wisdom, courage, or fame, 'That's true life in this world." the wise say: even crows live long, but they live on scraps."

and Edgerton translates as:

Real life in this world, the wise say, is only that which is lived, perchance only for a brief season, yet known to fame among men, and not lacking in wisdom, prowess, or glory. A very crow lives a long time and devours the food that is thrown to it.

I'm not clear what abhagnam?nam means in the verse and how it fits into these translations.

Bohtlingk-Roth for  abhagnam?nam has Adj. wobei die Ehre nicht leidet  which I think means something like "whereby honor doesn't suffer" which even more confuses me.

Any help would be appreciated.

Harry Spier

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From wujastyk at gmail.com  Wed Mar 25 15:54:51 2020
From: wujastyk at gmail.com (Dominik Wujastyk)
Date: Wed, 25 Mar 20 09:54:51 -0600
Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_[INDOLOGY]=09Meaning_of_abhagnam=C4=81nam_in_this_verse?=
In-Reply-To: <CAJ3b0o8zjDcuy4DsyyDBWfZQXbzu4cyg65DqLGYOu3E-p0gcag@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAKdt-Cf4DdAsbxNUKqN3H6ZTXsu0_CtVBkJU-74Ff0SnwgSw0g@mail.gmail.com>

might "self-respect" capture m?na  better than "pride"?  "Pride" includes a
pejorative sense that self-respect doesn't.


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From gerard.huet at inria.fr  Wed Mar 25 16:21:19 2020
From: gerard.huet at inria.fr (huet)
Date: Wed, 25 Mar 20 17:21:19 +0100
Subject: [INDOLOGY] The study of Sanskrit as the epitome of uselessness
In-Reply-To: <440839388.3297953.1585127204379@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1FDC6D48-7AF4-4738-AEA9-A042662718CF@inria.fr>

In a similar vein of Sanskrit being the epitome of cryptic languages, some time ago in a French TV series thriller, there was a scene where the police inspector gives instruction to his staff that is not carried out. 
He gets angry and shouts: ?  Comment faut-il vous l?expliquer ? En sanscrit ? En largonji des louch?bems ? ? (How should I explain it to you ? In Sanskrit ? in butcher?s slang ?)
This `largonji des louch?bem's is a weird slang that butchers used to communicate between themselves for joking about customers in their presence without them understanding. 
It is a variety of French where words starting with a consonant replace it with an l, and put the consonant at the end, followed by some ending which may vary. Thus boucher (butcher) becomes louch?bem and jargon (slang) becomes largonji. 
This is typical of what the average Frenchman thinks about Sanskrit: an esoteric and obscure language.

I would also like to point you to ?King David in Oudh: a Bible story in Sanskrit and the Just King at an Afghan court?, the Inaugural Lecture for the Oxford Boden Professorship by Pr. Minkowski:

?  During interviews for fellowships at Balliol, it is not uncommon for applicants to be confronted with the following question: as a fellow of this college, you might find yourself at a meal sitting next to the professor of Sanskrit. What would you talk about? 
Of course, the purpose of the question is to probe the ability of candidates to function successfully in a collegiate setting, in which they will have to make intelligent conversation with people who work on subjects very different from their own. The mention of Sanskrit is shorthand for what is out of the ordinary and stands at some intellectual remove. For this purpose, it is not that Sanskrit study is far from some subjects and close to others. 
For it is not that any candidate is expected to know something about Sanskrit. The topic of Sanskrit is assumed, rather, to be similarly dislocated from all customary intellectual pursuits, positioned, as it were, in the academic world?s realm of imaginary numbers.

Thinking of something to talk about with the professor of Sanskrit therefore serves as the college?s shibboleth, successful conversation with any other fellow being assured, according to this reasoning, a fortiori. ? 

A link to Pr Minkowski?s lecture is provided on his Web page <https://www.orinst.ox.ac.uk/people/christopher-minkowski>. 

Cheers
G?rard

> Le 25 mars 2020 ? 10:06, Oliver Fallon via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info> a ?crit :
> 
> Dear Colleagues, 
> In 
> ONE HUNDRED YEARS OF SOLITUDE by GABRIEL GARCIA MARQUEZ (TRANS. GREGORY RABASSA) :
> 
> Aureliano had finished classifying the alphabet of the parchments, so that when Melqu?ades asked him if he had discovered the language in which they had been written he did not hesitate to answer. 
>  ?Sanskrit,? he said. 
>  Melqu?ades revealed to him that his opportunities to return to the room were limited. But he would go in peace to the meadows of the ultimate death because Aureliano would have time to learn Sanskrit during the years remaining until the parchments became one hundred years old, when they could be deciphered. It was he who indicated to Aureliano that on the narrow street going down to the river, where dreams had been interpreted during the time of the banana company, a wise Catalonian had a bookstore where there was a Sanskrit primer, which would be eaten by the moths within six years if he did not hurry to buy it. For the first time in her long life Santa Sof?a de la Piedad let a feeling show through, and it was a feeling of wonderment when Aureliano asked her to bring him the book that could be found between Jerusalem Delivered and Milton?s poems on the extreme right-hand side of the second shelf of the bookcases. Since she could not read, she memorized what he had said and got some money by selling one of the seventeen little gold fishes left in the workshop, the whereabouts of which, after being hidden the night the soldiers searched the house, was known only by her and Aureliano. 
>  Aureliano made progress in his studies of Sanskrit as Melqu?ades? visits became less and less frequent and he was more distant, fading away in the radiant light of noon. The last time that Aureliano sensed him he was only an invisible presence who murmured: ?I died of fever on the sands of Singapore.? The room then became vulnerable to dust, heat, termites, red ants, and moths, who would turn the wisdom of the parchments into sawdust.
> 
> Best wishes,
> Oliver Fallon
> 
> On Wednesday, 25 March 2020, 08:52:31 GMT, Christophe Vielle via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info> wrote:
> 
> 
> A quick search in Marcel Proust's "? la recherche du temps perdu", provides the following extracts:
> 
> Alors le solitaire languit seul. Il n'a d'autre plaisir que d'aller ? la station de bains de mer voisine demander un renseignement ? un certain employ? de chemin de fer. Mais celui-ci a re?u de l'avancement, est nomm? ? l'autre bout de la France ; le solitaire ne pourra plus aller lui demander l'heure des trains, le prix des premi?res, et avant de rentrer r?ver dans sa tour, comme Gris?lidis, il s'attarde sur la plage, telle une ?trange Androm?de qu'aucun Argonaute ne viendra d?livrer, comme une m?duse st?rile qui p?rira sur le sable, ou bien il reste paresseusement, avant le d?part du train, sur le quai, ? jeter sur la foule des voyageurs un regard qui semblera indiff?rent, d?daigneux ou distrait ? ceux d'une autre race, mais qui, comme l'?clat lumineux dont se parent certains insectes pour attirer ceux de la m?me esp?ce, ou comme le nectar qu'offrent certaines fleurs pour attirer les insectes qui les f?conderont, ne tromperait pas l'amateur presque introuvable d'un plaisir trop singulier, trop difficile ? placer, qui lui est offert, le confr?re avec qui notre sp?cialiste pourrait parler la langue insolite ; tout au plus ? celle-ci quelque loqueteux du quai fera-t-il semblant de s'int?resser, mais pour un b?n?fice mat?riel seulement, comme ceux qui, au Coll?ge de France, dans la salle o? le professeur de sanscrit parle sans auditeur, vont suivre le cours, mais seulement pour se chauffer.
> 
> Ou plut?t non, un Institut de psychophysiologie sp?ciale vous conviendrait mieux. Et je vous vois surtout pourvu d'une chaire au Coll?ge de France, vous permettant de vous livrer ? des ?tudes personnelles dont vous livreriez les r?sultats, comme fait le professeur de tamoul ou de sanscrit devant le tr?s petit nombre de personnes que cela int?resse.
> 
> 
> Eh bien ! si sp?ciales que soient ces guerres balkaniques, Lull?-Burgas c'est encore Ulm, l'enveloppement par l'aile. Voil? les sujets dont tu peux me parler. Mais pour le genre de choses auxquelles tu fais allusion, je m'y connais autant qu'en sanscrit.
> 
> https://alarecherchedutempsperdu.org <https://alarecherchedutempsperdu.org/>
> https://alarecherchedutempsperdu.org/marcel-proust/ <https://alarecherchedutempsperdu.org/marcel-proust/>
> 
>> Le 25 mars 2020 ? 01:02, Jeffery Long via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info <mailto:indology at list.indology.info>> a ?crit :
>> 
>> Dear Patricia,
>> 
>> As a Missouri native, I particularly appreciate this one!
>> 
>> All the best,
>> Jeff
>> 
>> Dr. Jeffery D. Long
>> Professor of Religion and Asian Studies
>> Elizabethtown College
>> Elizabethtown, PA
>> 
>> https://etown.academia.edu/JefferyLong <https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fetown.academia.edu%2FJefferyLong&data=02%7C01%7Cchristophe.vielle%40uclouvain.be%7C40256ed0ddeb4838a5e308d7d04fdf88%7C7ab090d4fa2e4ecfbc7c4127b4d582ec%7C0%7C0%7C637206913780261790&sdata=L4jdNhYG%2F549gkVrwgsa4NBlCtuKlmEg%2Bw%2FpvuCUH5g%3D&reserved=0>
>> 
>> Series Editor, Explorations in Indic Traditions: Theological, Ethical, and Philosophical
>> Lexington Books
>> 
>> "One who makes a habit of prayer and meditation will easily overcome all difficulties and remain calm and unruffled in the midst of the trials of life."  (Holy Mother Sarada Devi)
>> 
>> "We are a way for the Cosmos to know itself." (Carl Sagan)
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On Tuesday, March 24, 2020, 07:59:20 PM EDT, Patricia Sauthoff via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info <mailto:indology at list.indology.info>> wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> The Secret History by Donna Tartt
>> 
>> p. 50 
>> 
>> "You get along with Henry?
>>  "Oh, sure thing," said Bunny, reared back in his chair. "We were roommates. Freshman year." 
>> "And you like him?" 
>> "Certainly, certainly. He's a hard fellow to live with though. Hates noise, hates company, hates mess. None of this brining your date back to the room to listen to a couple Art Pepper records, if you know what I'm trying to get at." 
>> "I think he's sort of rude." 
>> Buddy shrugged. "That's his way. See, his mind doesn't work the same way yours and mine do. He's always up in the clouds with Plato or something. Works too hard, takes himself too seriously, studying Sanskrit and Coptic and those other nutty languages. Henry, I tell him, if you're going to waste your time learning something besides Greek -- that and the King's English are all I think a man needs, personally -- why don't you buy yourself some Berlitz records and brush up on your French. Find a little can-can girl or something. Voolay-voo coushay avec moi and all that."
>> "How many languages does he know?"
>> "I lost count. Seven or eight. He can read hieroglyphics."
>> "Wow." 
>> Bunny shook his head fondly. "He's a genius, that boy. He could be a translator for the UN if he wanted to be." 
>> "Where's he from?" 
>> "Missouri." 
>> 
>> 
>> p. 356 also has a [not historically great] description of Buddhist Tantra.
>> 
>> On Tue, Mar 24, 2020 at 1:21 PM Deven Patel via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info <mailto:indology at list.indology.info>> wrote:
>> From a review of the Broadway play Spamalot in the New York Times in 2006.  I had an amusing email back-and-forth with the critic when I jokingly asked him if he could've used another metaphor...
>> 
>> "In "Spamalot," of course, the horseplay's the thing. And in a world of juvenile antics, a gift for Shakespearean tragedy would seem to be about as useful as a doctorate in Sanskrit."
>> 
>> 
>> On Tuesday, March 24, 2020, Jesse Knutson via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info <mailto:indology at list.indology.info>> wrote:
>> Speaking of my dear friend Lee Siegel: he often tells the story that he only decided to study Sanskrit after hearing a speech of Richard Nixon the California senator (before he became president), in which the latter quipped that the University of California's budget should be slashed because 'instead of doing anything useful, they are studying things like Sanskrit'. 
>> 
>> On Tue, Mar 24, 2020, 4:30 AM Walser, Joseph via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info <mailto:indology at list.indology.info>> wrote:
>> One of my favorites, although I am having difficulty finding the source, is: "A knowledge of Sanskrit is of little use to a man trapped in a sewer." The internet tells me that this is attributed to Tom Weller, but I suspect that he got it from someone else.
>> Greetings from the sewer.
>> 
>> -j
>> 
>> 
>> Joseph Walser
>> 
>> Associate Professor
>> 
>> Department of Religion
>> 
>> Tufts University
>> 
>> From: INDOLOGY [indology-bounces at list.indology.info <mailto:indology-bounces at list.indology.info>] on behalf of Madhav Deshpande via INDOLOGY [indology at list.indology.info <mailto:indology at list.indology.info>]
>> Sent: Tuesday, March 24, 2020 9:41 AM
>> To: Andrey Klebanov
>> Cc: indology
>> Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] The study of Sanskrit as the epitome of uselessness
>> 
>> Here is my description of what we as Indoloogs do:
>> 
>> ???????? ?????: ???????????? ????? ????????: ?
>> ??????? ????????????? ?? ????????????: ??
>> 
>> Hope it makes you laugh at ourselves!
>> 
>> Madhav M. Deshpande
>> Professor Emeritus, Sanskrit and Linguistics
>> University of Michigan, Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA
>> Senior Fellow, Oxford Center for Hindu Studies
>> 
>> [Residence: Campbell, California, USA]
>> 
>> 
>> On Tue, Mar 24, 2020 at 4:56 AM Andrey Klebanov via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info <mailto:indology at list.indology.info>> wrote:
>> ?To study Sanskrit? (????? ????????) became a rather popular idiom (a kind of meme) in Russia in 2015, and it has been used since then frequently exactly as an epitome of a useless time-consuming and exhausting activity, which, in a long run, may be still more rewarding than engaging in Russian politics (especially as a member of the opposition). It was popularized by journalist Oleg Kashin <https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fkashin.guru%2F&data=02%7C01%7Cchristophe.vielle%40uclouvain.be%7C40256ed0ddeb4838a5e308d7d04fdf88%7C7ab090d4fa2e4ecfbc7c4127b4d582ec%7C0%7C0%7C637206913780261790&sdata=dzY%2Fbu6SXjH5BaQOmIm3D58vgKBGcCBPnrgilGQLJHs%3D&reserved=0>, who has famously used this expression (the original wording was actually slightly different) in his debate with politician Alexey Navalny, who, in 2015, campaigned for opposition parties to participate at regional elections at any cost. See, for example, here <https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Flurkmore.to%2F%25D0%259E%25D0%25BB%25D0%25B5%25D0%25B3_%25D0%259A%25D0%25B0%25D1%2588%25D0%25B8%25D0%25BD%23.D0.9C.D0.B5.D0.BC.D1.8B&data=02%7C01%7Cchristophe.vielle%40uclouvain.be%7C40256ed0ddeb4838a5e308d7d04fdf88%7C7ab090d4fa2e4ecfbc7c4127b4d582ec%7C0%7C0%7C637206913780271786&sdata=PKCWauLm%2BNA7gjgDNOH8lfk%2F8U1hjVJYsjMK4GKNEkU%3D&reserved=0> or here <https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fecho.msk.ru%2Fprograms%2Fklinch%2F1742522-echo%2F&data=02%7C01%7Cchristophe.vielle%40uclouvain.be%7C40256ed0ddeb4838a5e308d7d04fdf88%7C7ab090d4fa2e4ecfbc7c4127b4d582ec%7C0%7C0%7C637206913780271786&sdata=SX4G2d2NGUl2bCu2Nr0BlwlhxknggGY5gP6nZhLEFqE%3D&reserved=0>. The original debate is here <https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fecho.msk.ru%2Fprograms%2Fklinch%2F1592616-echo%2F&data=02%7C01%7Cchristophe.vielle%40uclouvain.be%7C40256ed0ddeb4838a5e308d7d04fdf88%7C7ab090d4fa2e4ecfbc7c4127b4d582ec%7C0%7C0%7C637206913780281782&sdata=sEdcDTcXbqADX70Db4AWaA%2Fry7tTTXC20sEDuRqym2Y%3D&reserved=0>. 
>> 
>> best,
>> Andrey
>> On Mar 24, 2020 11:57 +0100, Sven Sellmer via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info <mailto:indology at list.indology.info>>, wrote:
>>> Dear All!
>>> 
>>> One may also add a passage of Hermann Hesse's "Glasperlenspiel" here, though also rather in the category of useful uselessness:
>>> 
>>> ? schon manche von ihnen haben ihr Leben an sehr entlegene und oft wunderliche Arbeiten gewendet, wie etwa jener Lodovicus crudelis, der in drei?igj?hriger Arbeit alle ?berlieferten alt?gyptischen Texte sowohl ins Griechiche wie ins Sanskrit ?bersetzt hat ?
>>> 
>>> ? not few of them devoted their lives to very marginal and often rather strange occupations, like one Lodovicus crudelis, who in the course of thirty years translated all preserved Old Egyptian texts both into Greek and into Sanskrit ? 
>>> 
>>> Best wishes,
>>> Sven
>>> 
>>> ****************************
>>> Sven Sellmer, PhD
>>> Adam Mickiewicz University
>>> Institute of Oriental Studies
>>> Department of South Asian Studies
>>> ul. Grunwaldzka 6 <https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com%2Fmaps%2Fsearch%2FGrunwaldzka%2B6%2B%250D%250A%2B60-780%2BPozna%25C5%2584%2B%250D%250A%2BPOLAND%3Fentry%3Dgmail%26source%3Dg&data=02%7C01%7Cchristophe.vielle%40uclouvain.be%7C40256ed0ddeb4838a5e308d7d04fdf88%7C7ab090d4fa2e4ecfbc7c4127b4d582ec%7C0%7C0%7C637206913780281782&sdata=hRJ7u7b46XKDO4QPbxj0Iv3y8bMnhjQMnq9%2Fc%2Fp%2BytU%3D&reserved=0>
>>> 60-780 Pozna? <https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com%2Fmaps%2Fsearch%2FGrunwaldzka%2B6%2B%250D%250A%2B60-780%2BPozna%25C5%2584%2B%250D%250A%2BPOLAND%3Fentry%3Dgmail%26source%3Dg&data=02%7C01%7Cchristophe.vielle%40uclouvain.be%7C40256ed0ddeb4838a5e308d7d04fdf88%7C7ab090d4fa2e4ecfbc7c4127b4d582ec%7C0%7C0%7C637206913780291784&sdata=x3%2BTBKDvVWVHnxn7yBfpmnEeyg6RHrG7t6zWaOOSa6w%3D&reserved=0>
>>> POLAND <https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com%2Fmaps%2Fsearch%2FGrunwaldzka%2B6%2B%250D%250A%2B60-780%2BPozna%25C5%2584%2B%250D%250A%2BPOLAND%3Fentry%3Dgmail%26source%3Dg&data=02%7C01%7Cchristophe.vielle%40uclouvain.be%7C40256ed0ddeb4838a5e308d7d04fdf88%7C7ab090d4fa2e4ecfbc7c4127b4d582ec%7C0%7C0%7C637206913780301777&sdata=MMsdpQy7AnrxqYnJhX4qtpmUuwDWkR2Ons5B4NRC4jY%3D&reserved=0>
>>> sven.sellmer at amu.edu.pl <mailto:sven.sellmer at amu.edu.pl>
>>> 
>>>> Am 24.03.2020 um 11:24 schrieb patrick mccartney via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info <mailto:indology at list.indology.info>>:
>>>> 
>>>> Sort of related, on page 100 of chapter 5, of Amazing Stories (1943) issue 17 no 05, the following is said: 
>>>> She put her hands on her hips, her  
>>>> face thoughtful. Then she grabbed hold  
>>>> of the grab-rail on the side of the door-  
>>>> way, stepped into the bipedomobile.  
>>>> She wasn?t a tall girl, but she had to  
>>>> stoop.  
>>>> 
>>>> Her eyes were grave. Suddenly she  
>>>> pointed into the distance.  
>>>> 
>>>> ?Godwa te lele!?  
>>>> 
>>>> ?It?s all Sanskrit to me, Jamie,? he  
>>>> said sadly. ?They?ve sure done you up  
>>>> brown, haven?t they ? ^you?ve forgotten  
>>>> entirely, haven?t you? Well, if you want  
>>>> to go in that direction, okay. It?s as  
>>>> good as any, and maybe we?ll solve a  
>>>> few mysteries while we?re at it. We  
>>>> might even find out how to get your  
>>>> memory back again.?  
>>>> 
>>>> She smiled dazzlingly. She pointed  
>>>> again.
>>>> This link will take you to the relevant page - https://archive.org/details/Amazing_Stories_v17n05_1943-05_cape1736/page/n99/mode/2up/search/sanskrit <https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Farchive.org%2Fdetails%2FAmazing_Stories_v17n05_1943-05_cape1736%2Fpage%2Fn99%2Fmode%2F2up%2Fsearch%2Fsanskrit&data=02%7C01%7Cchristophe.vielle%40uclouvain.be%7C40256ed0ddeb4838a5e308d7d04fdf88%7C7ab090d4fa2e4ecfbc7c4127b4d582ec%7C0%7C0%7C637206913780301777&sdata=fepDQ26EOHnBYFmAlHjmoegKwXL69viKOuZhIE4QNkw%3D&reserved=0>
>>>> 
>>>> All the best,
>>>> 
>>>> ?????????????
>>>> Patrick McCartney, PhD
>>>> Research Affiliate - Organization for Identity and Cultural Development (OICD), Kyoto
>>>> Research Associate - Nanzan University Anthropological Institute, Nagoya, Japan
>>>> Visiting Fellow - South and South-east Asian Studies Department, Australian National University
>>>> Member - South Asia Research Institute (SARI), Australian National University
>>>> 
>>>> Skype / Zoom - psdmccartney
>>>> Phone + Whatsapp + Line:  +61410644259
>>>> Twitter - @psdmccartney @yogascapesinjap
>>>>  Yogascapes in Japan <https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fyogascapes.weebly.com%2F&data=02%7C01%7Cchristophe.vielle%40uclouvain.be%7C40256ed0ddeb4838a5e308d7d04fdf88%7C7ab090d4fa2e4ecfbc7c4127b4d582ec%7C0%7C0%7C637206913780311772&sdata=my0LFsuaZBcbo1aPg3usgRR4QqxQjKLucc2hV84e2JA%3D&reserved=0> Academia <https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fpatrickmccartney.academia.edu%2F&data=02%7C01%7Cchristophe.vielle%40uclouvain.be%7C40256ed0ddeb4838a5e308d7d04fdf88%7C7ab090d4fa2e4ecfbc7c4127b4d582ec%7C0%7C0%7C637206913780311772&sdata=HSzACfx8fwRE762IOp%2BIQsFn63N7wL8pWXCb8pJnABY%3D&reserved=0> Linkedin <https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.linkedin.com%2Fprofile%2Fview%3Fid%3D241756978%26trk%3Dnav_responsive_tab_profile&data=02%7C01%7Cchristophe.vielle%40uclouvain.be%7C40256ed0ddeb4838a5e308d7d04fdf88%7C7ab090d4fa2e4ecfbc7c4127b4d582ec%7C0%7C0%7C637206913780321769&sdata=iF5MqCLKGXMFUJoorer1hZm9YPL8osDRUJ8QVwumGnM%3D&reserved=0> Modern Yoga Research <https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.modernyogaresearch.org%2Fevents%2F&data=02%7C01%7Cchristophe.vielle%40uclouvain.be%7C40256ed0ddeb4838a5e308d7d04fdf88%7C7ab090d4fa2e4ecfbc7c4127b4d582ec%7C0%7C0%7C637206913780331763&sdata=e7IdTC4ss7TQE3ZO%2FrmwERkxdkIEgQaH2wbDT9HM0t0%3D&reserved=0>
>>>> 
>>>> bodhap?rvam calema ;-)
>>>> 
>>>>  
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> On Tue, Mar 24, 2020 at 6:38 PM Matthew Kapstein via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info <mailto:indology at list.indology.info>> wrote:
>>>> This reminds me that one of my teachers, the great Prof. Padmanabh Jaini, lost several students in the late 70s because the job market seemed particularly bad. They switched to law and easily passed the special examinations, the "Law Boards," for entering American Law Schools. Jaini joked that the field could be saved and even expanded by converting Sanskrit to a pre-law required course.
>>>> 
>>>> Matthew Kapstein
>>>> Directeur d'?tudes, ?m?rite
>>>> Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes, Paris
>>>> 
>>>> Numata Visiting Professor of Buddhist Studies,
>>>> The University of Chicago
>>>> From: INDOLOGY <indology-bounces at list.indology.info <mailto:indology-bounces at list.indology.info>> on behalf of Christophe Vielle via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info <mailto:indology at list.indology.info>>
>>>> Sent: Tuesday, March 24, 2020 4:32 AM
>>>> To: Tieken, H.J.H. <H.J.H.Tieken at hum.leidenuniv.nl <mailto:H.J.H.Tieken at hum.leidenuniv.nl>>
>>>> Cc: indology <indology at list.indology.info <mailto:indology at list.indology.info>>
>>>> Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] The study of Sanskrit as the epitome of uselessness
>>>>  
>>>> The Classicist Nuccio Ordine has published a stimulating (useful) essay "De l'utilit? de l'inutile" (English translation: The Usefulness of the Useless").
>>>> where Sanskrit studies, together with Classics, are given as an example of (useful) usefulness, cf. p. 95 of the Engl. Transl.:
>>>> https://books.google.com/books?id=NCArDgAAQBAJ <https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fbooks.google.be%2Fbooks%3Fid%3DNCArDgAAQBAJ%26pg%3DPA95%26lpg%3DPA95%26dq%3Dnuccio%2Bordine%2Bthe%2Busefulness%2Bof%2Bthe%2Buseless%2Bsanskrit%26source%3Dbl%26ots%3DJmMiqWAORS%26sig%3DACfU3U0_SDl4ZpYaNsGhUnflgLpFvJYTDg%26hl%3Den%26sa%3DX%26ved%3D2ahUKEwj-rMSM5bLoAhXEMewKHYVdDp4Q6AEwAXoECAoQAQ%23v%3Donepage%26q%3Dnuccio%2520ordine%2520the%2520usefulness%2520of%2520the%2520useless%2520sanskrit%26f%3Dfalse&data=02%7C01%7Cchristophe.vielle%40uclouvain.be%7C40256ed0ddeb4838a5e308d7d04fdf88%7C7ab090d4fa2e4ecfbc7c4127b4d582ec%7C0%7C0%7C637206913780331763&sdata=q2LGOUxS9kLJgmxM36DwTNlDcDoe%2FnnX7DievE5sxH0%3D&reserved=0>
>>>> See also it in his oral presentations:
>>>> https://uclouvain.be/en/research-institutes/incal/conference-du-pr-nuccio-ordine.html <https://uclouvain.be/en/research-institutes/incal/conference-du-pr-nuccio-ordine.html>
>>>> Quel danger courons-nous actuellement ? Dans une universit?-entreprise, quand un professeur de sanskrit aura deux ?tudiants, le Conseil d?administration de l?Universit? pourra dire que celle-ci ne peut pas se permettre le luxe de payer un professeur de sanskrit pour deux ?tudiants. Demain, cela sera pour dix ?tudiants en grec, et apr?s-demain pour quinze ?tudiants en latin.
>>>> 
>>>>> Le 24 mars 2020 ? 09:49, Tieken, H.J.H. via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info <mailto:indology at list.indology.info>> a ?crit :
>>>>> 
>>>>> Dear List members,
>>>>> Last night I started reading Ever After by Graham Swift. On p. 3 of the pocket edition (Vintage International) of 1993 we hear the protagonist think:
>>>>> 
>>>>> "Before they [academics] are sixty, they are emulating one of the many varieties: ... the wide-eyed, latter-day infant, helpless in all mundane matters but possessed of a profound understanding of Sanskrit."
>>>>> 
>>>>> A few months ago I was reading Nader tot U (1969) by Gerard van 't Reve gain. One of the characters has to fill in a profession on an official paper. In the end he decides to fill in "indoloog", which is considered to be better than "general in the Hungarian army" or "stratenmaker of zee" (general dogsbody) (p. 113). There is some confusion if indoloog refers to a civil servant in the Dutch Indies here (Indie verloren, rampspoed geboren) or to an indologist, which is later resolved by remarks about gurus and bhakti. I was amazed to see that I had bought the book in the summer of 1970, just a few months before I started with the study of Sanskrit.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Are there more accidental references of this type to sanskritists or indologists in literature?
>>>>> (Leaving aside Lee Siegel's novel about Professor Roth being killed by Monier-Williams Sanskrit dictionary.)
>>>>> 
>>>>> With kind regards Herman
>>>>> 
>>>>> Herman Tieken
>>>>> Stationsweg 58 <https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com%2Fmaps%2Fsearch%2FStationsweg%2B58%2B%250D%250A%2B2515%2BBP%2BDen%2BHaag%2B%250D%250A%2BThe%2BNetherlands%3Fentry%3Dgmail%26source%3Dg&data=02%7C01%7Cchristophe.vielle%40uclouvain.be%7C40256ed0ddeb4838a5e308d7d04fdf88%7C7ab090d4fa2e4ecfbc7c4127b4d582ec%7C0%7C0%7C637206913780341764&sdata=STlWaWsjDPhBnLYa5Ke%2B4zVFn1amtKs5szWk%2FjMFWE0%3D&reserved=0>
>>>>> 2515 BP Den Haag <https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com%2Fmaps%2Fsearch%2FStationsweg%2B58%2B%250D%250A%2B2515%2BBP%2BDen%2BHaag%2B%250D%250A%2BThe%2BNetherlands%3Fentry%3Dgmail%26source%3Dg&data=02%7C01%7Cchristophe.vielle%40uclouvain.be%7C40256ed0ddeb4838a5e308d7d04fdf88%7C7ab090d4fa2e4ecfbc7c4127b4d582ec%7C0%7C0%7C637206913780341764&sdata=STlWaWsjDPhBnLYa5Ke%2B4zVFn1amtKs5szWk%2FjMFWE0%3D&reserved=0>
>>>>> The Netherlands <https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com%2Fmaps%2Fsearch%2FStationsweg%2B58%2B%250D%250A%2B2515%2BBP%2BDen%2BHaag%2B%250D%250A%2BThe%2BNetherlands%3Fentry%3Dgmail%26source%3Dg&data=02%7C01%7Cchristophe.vielle%40uclouvain.be%7C40256ed0ddeb4838a5e308d7d04fdf88%7C7ab090d4fa2e4ecfbc7c4127b4d582ec%7C0%7C0%7C637206913780351759&sdata=rKd2IbPaMOdA1ismT9Iag1wljwqrvfOXmurawU6MHDk%3D&reserved=0>
>>>>> 00 31 (0)70 2208127
>>>>> website: hermantieken.com <https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fhermantieken.com%2F&data=02%7C01%7Cchristophe.vielle%40uclouvain.be%7C40256ed0ddeb4838a5e308d7d04fdf88%7C7ab090d4fa2e4ecfbc7c4127b4d582ec%7C0%7C0%7C637206913780361756&sdata=MP1CBeAat2LFaniQsnXypru0oM%2BYpMzHkLm726%2FVeZg%3D&reserved=0>_______________________________________________
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>>>> 
>>>> ???????????????????
>>>> Christophe Vielle <https://uclouvain.be/en/directories/christophe.vielle>
>>>> Louvain-la-Neuve
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> INDOLOGY mailing list
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>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>> http://listinfo.indology.info <https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Flistinfo.indology.info%2F&data=02%7C01%7Cchristophe.vielle%40uclouvain.be%7C40256ed0ddeb4838a5e308d7d04fdf88%7C7ab090d4fa2e4ecfbc7c4127b4d582ec%7C0%7C0%7C637206913780381743&sdata=mHMSAIjJyHJSjTszNgvK2PgN3WqNGrj8%2BnNmAEoib4U%3D&reserved=0> (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe)
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> INDOLOGY mailing list
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>> _______________________________________________
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>> _______________________________________________
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>> 
>> 
>> -- 
>> Deven M. Patel
>> University of Pennsylvania
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
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>> 
>> 
>> -- 
>> Patricia Sauthoff
>> (she/her/they/them)
>> Postdoctoral Fellow
>> AyurYog.org <https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fayuryog.org%2F&data=02%7C01%7Cchristophe.vielle%40uclouvain.be%7C40256ed0ddeb4838a5e308d7d04fdf88%7C7ab090d4fa2e4ecfbc7c4127b4d582ec%7C0%7C0%7C637206913780401732&sdata=yMx2KwEOAh6Gdf%2F4ghQ6eHyupQdMZUiePRDVpmeG9%2BI%3D&reserved=0>
>> Department of History and Classics
>> University of Alberta
>> Edmonton, Canada
>> _______________________________________________
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> 
> ???????????????????
> Christophe Vielle <https://uclouvain.be/en/directories/christophe.vielle>
> Louvain-la-Neuve
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
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From mmdesh at umich.edu  Wed Mar 25 16:40:07 2020
From: mmdesh at umich.edu (Madhav Deshpande)
Date: Wed, 25 Mar 20 09:40:07 -0700
Subject: [INDOLOGY] The study of Sanskrit as the epitome of uselessness
In-Reply-To: <1FDC6D48-7AF4-4738-AEA9-A042662718CF@inria.fr>
Message-ID: <CAB3-dzdmSO6Af3oQA+8H7Hua8wHL_B1eDzeEnMTBRuzfHo9rFg@mail.gmail.com>

Recite the Nalop?khy?nam, and stop watching Trump on CNN!  It will not save
the world, but it will prevent you from losing your mind.

Madhav M. Deshpande
Professor Emeritus, Sanskrit and Linguistics
University of Michigan, Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA
Senior Fellow, Oxford Center for Hindu Studies

[Residence: Campbell, California, USA]


On Wed, Mar 25, 2020 at 9:22 AM huet via INDOLOGY <
indology at list.indology.info> wrote:

> In a similar vein of Sanskrit being the epitome of cryptic languages, some
> time ago in a French TV series thriller, there was a scene where the police
> inspector gives instruction to his staff that is not carried out.
> He gets angry and shouts: ?  Comment faut-il vous l?expliquer ? En
> sanscrit ? En largonji des louch?bems ? ? (How should I explain it to you ?
> In Sanskrit ? in butcher?s slang ?)
> This `largonji des louch?bem's is a weird slang that butchers used to
> communicate between themselves for joking about customers in their presence
> without them understanding.
> It is a variety of French where words starting with a consonant replace it
> with an l, and put the consonant at the end, followed by some ending which
> may vary. Thus boucher (butcher) becomes louch?bem and jargon (slang)
> becomes largonji.
> This is typical of what the average Frenchman thinks about Sanskrit: an
> esoteric and obscure language.
>
> I would also like to point you to ?King David in Oudh: a Bible story in
> Sanskrit and the Just King at an Afghan court?, the Inaugural Lecture for
> the Oxford Boden Professorship by Pr. Minkowski:
>
> ?  During interviews for fellowships at Balliol, it is not uncommon for
> applicants to be confronted with the following question: as a fellow of
> this college, you might find yourself at a meal sitting next to the
> professor of Sanskrit. What would you talk about?
> Of course, the purpose of the question is to probe the ability of
> candidates to function successfully in a collegiate setting, in which they
> will have to make intelligent conversation with people who work on subjects
> very different from their own. The mention of Sanskrit is shorthand for
> what is out of the ordinary and stands at some intellectual remove. For
> this purpose, it is not that Sanskrit study is far from some subjects and
> close to others.
> For it is not that any candidate is expected to know something about
> Sanskrit. The topic of Sanskrit is assumed, rather, to be similarly
> dislocated from all customary intellectual pursuits, positioned, as it
> were, in the academic world?s realm of imaginary numbers.
>
> Thinking of something to talk about with the professor of Sanskrit
> therefore serves as the college?s shibboleth, successful conversation with
> any other fellow being assured, according to this reasoning, a fortiori. ?
>
> A link to Pr Minkowski?s lecture is provided on his Web page
> <https://www.orinst.ox.ac.uk/people/christopher-minkowski>.
>
> Cheers
> G?rard
>
> Le 25 mars 2020 ? 10:06, Oliver Fallon via INDOLOGY <
> indology at list.indology.info> a ?crit :
>
> Dear Colleagues,
> In
> ONE HUNDRED YEARS OF SOLITUDE by GABRIEL GARCIA MARQUEZ (TRANS. GREGORY
> RABASSA) :
>
> Aureliano had finished classifying the alphabet of the parchments, so that
> when Melqu?ades asked him if he had discovered the language in which they
> had been written he did not hesitate to answer.
>  ?Sanskrit,? he said.
>  Melqu?ades revealed to him that his opportunities to return to the room
> were limited. But he would go in peace to the meadows of the ultimate death
> because Aureliano would have time to learn Sanskrit during the years
> remaining until the parchments became one hundred years old, when they
> could be deciphered. It was he who indicated to Aureliano that on the
> narrow street going down to the river, where dreams had been interpreted
> during the time of the banana company, a wise Catalonian had a bookstore
> where there was a Sanskrit primer, which would be eaten by the moths within
> six years if he did not hurry to buy it. For the first time in her long
> life Santa Sof?a de la Piedad let a feeling show through, and it was a
> feeling of wonderment when Aureliano asked her to bring him the book that
> could be found between Jerusalem Delivered and Milton?s poems on the
> extreme right-hand side of the second shelf of the bookcases. Since she
> could not read, she memorized what he had said and got some money by
> selling one of the seventeen little gold fishes left in the workshop, the
> whereabouts of which, after being hidden the night the soldiers searched
> the house, was known only by her and Aureliano.
>  Aureliano made progress in his studies of Sanskrit as Melqu?ades? visits
> became less and less frequent and he was more distant, fading away in the
> radiant light of noon. The last time that Aureliano sensed him he was only
> an invisible presence who murmured: ?I died of fever on the sands of
> Singapore.? The room then became vulnerable to dust, heat, termites, red
> ants, and moths, who would turn the wisdom of the parchments into sawdust.
>
> Best wishes,
> Oliver Fallon
>
> On Wednesday, 25 March 2020, 08:52:31 GMT, Christophe Vielle via INDOLOGY <
> indology at list.indology.info> wrote:
>
>
> A quick search in Marcel Proust's "? la recherche du temps perdu",
> provides the following extracts:
>
> Alors le solitaire languit seul. Il n'a d'autre plaisir que d'aller ? la
> station de bains de mer voisine demander un renseignement ? un certain
> employ? de chemin de fer. Mais celui-ci a re?u de l'avancement, est nomm? ?
> l'autre bout de la France ; le solitaire ne pourra plus aller lui demander
> l'heure des trains, le prix des premi?res, et avant de rentrer r?ver dans
> sa tour, comme Gris?lidis, il s'attarde sur la plage, telle une ?trange
> Androm?de qu'aucun Argonaute ne viendra d?livrer, comme une m?duse st?rile
> qui p?rira sur le sable, ou bien il reste paresseusement, avant le d?part
> du train, sur le quai, ? jeter sur la foule des voyageurs un regard qui
> semblera indiff?rent, d?daigneux ou distrait ? ceux d'une autre race, mais
> qui, comme l'?clat lumineux dont se parent certains insectes pour attirer
> ceux de la m?me esp?ce, ou comme le nectar qu'offrent certaines fleurs pour
> attirer les insectes qui les f?conderont, ne tromperait pas l'amateur
> presque introuvable d'un plaisir trop singulier, trop difficile ? placer,
> qui lui est offert, le confr?re avec qui notre sp?cialiste pourrait parler
> la langue insolite ; tout au plus ? celle-ci quelque loqueteux du quai
> fera-t-il semblant de s'int?resser, mais pour un b?n?fice mat?riel
> seulement, *comme ceux qui, au Coll?ge de France, dans la salle o? le
> professeur de sanscrit parle sans auditeur, vont suivre le cours, mais
> seulement pour se chauffer*.
>
> Ou plut?t non, un Institut de psychophysiologie sp?ciale vous conviendrait
> mieux. Et je vous vois surtout pourvu d'une chaire au Coll?ge de France,
> vous permettant de vous livrer ? des ?tudes personnelles dont vous
> livreriez les r?sultats, *comme fait le professeur de tamoul ou de
> sanscrit devant le tr?s petit nombre de personnes que cela int?resse*.
>
>
> Eh bien ! si sp?ciales que soient ces guerres balkaniques, Lull?-Burgas
> c'est encore Ulm, l'enveloppement par l'aile. Voil? les sujets dont tu peux
> me parler. Mais pour le genre de choses auxquelles tu fais allusion, je m'y
> connais autant qu'en sanscrit.
>
> https://alarecherchedutempsperdu.org
> https://alarecherchedutempsperdu.org/marcel-proust/
>
> Le 25 mars 2020 ? 01:02, Jeffery Long via INDOLOGY <
> indology at list.indology.info> a ?crit :
>
> Dear Patricia,
>
> As a Missouri native, I particularly appreciate this one!
>
> All the best,
> Jeff
>
> Dr. Jeffery D. Long
> Professor of Religion and Asian Studies
> Elizabethtown College
> Elizabethtown, PA
>
> https://etown.academia.edu/JefferyLong
> <https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fetown.academia.edu%2FJefferyLong&data=02%7C01%7Cchristophe.vielle%40uclouvain.be%7C40256ed0ddeb4838a5e308d7d04fdf88%7C7ab090d4fa2e4ecfbc7c4127b4d582ec%7C0%7C0%7C637206913780261790&sdata=L4jdNhYG%2F549gkVrwgsa4NBlCtuKlmEg%2Bw%2FpvuCUH5g%3D&reserved=0>
>
> Series Editor, *Explorations in Indic Traditions: Theological, Ethical,
> and Philosophical*
> Lexington Books
>
> "One who makes a habit of prayer and meditation will easily overcome all
> difficulties and remain calm and unruffled in the midst of the trials of
> life."  (Holy Mother Sarada Devi)
>
> "We are a way for the Cosmos to know itself." (Carl Sagan)
>
>
>
> On Tuesday, March 24, 2020, 07:59:20 PM EDT, Patricia Sauthoff via
> INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info> wrote:
>
>
> *The Secret History* by Donna Tartt
>
> p. 50
>
> "You get along with Henry?
>  "Oh, sure thing," said Bunny, reared back in his chair. "We were
> roommates. Freshman year."
> "And you like him?"
> "Certainly, certainly. He's a hard fellow to live with though. Hates
> noise, hates company, hates mess. None of this brining your date back to
> the room to listen to a couple Art Pepper records, if you know what I'm
> trying to get at."
> "I think he's sort of rude."
> Buddy shrugged. "That's his way. See, his mind doesn't work the same way
> yours and mine do. He's always up in the clouds with Plato or something.
> Works too hard, takes himself too seriously, studying Sanskrit and Coptic
> and those other nutty languages. Henry, I tell him, if you're going to
> waste your time learning something besides Greek -- that and the King's
> English are all I think a man *needs*, personally -- why don't you buy
> yourself some Berlitz records and brush up on your French. Find a little
> can-can girl or something. Voolay-voo coushay avec moi and all that."
> "How many languages does he know?"
> "I lost count. Seven or eight. He can read *hieroglyphics.*"
> "Wow."
> Bunny shook his head fondly. "He's a genius, that boy. He could be a
> translator for the UN if he wanted to be."
> "Where's he from?"
> "Missouri."
>
>
> p. 356 also has a [not historically great] description of Buddhist Tantra.
>
> On Tue, Mar 24, 2020 at 1:21 PM Deven Patel via INDOLOGY <
> indology at list.indology.info> wrote:
>
> From a review of the Broadway play Spamalot in the New York Times in
> 2006.  I had an amusing email back-and-forth with the critic when I
> jokingly asked him if he could've used another metaphor...
>
> "In "Spamalot," of course, the horseplay's the thing. And in a world of
> juvenile antics, a gift for Shakespearean tragedy would seem to be about as
> useful as a doctorate in Sanskrit."
>
>
> On Tuesday, March 24, 2020, Jesse Knutson via INDOLOGY <
> indology at list.indology.info> wrote:
>
> Speaking of my dear friend Lee Siegel: he often tells the story that he
> only decided to study Sanskrit after hearing a speech of Richard Nixon the
> California senator (before he became president), in which the latter
> quipped that the University of California's budget should be slashed
> because 'instead of doing anything useful, they are studying things like
> Sanskrit'.
>
> On Tue, Mar 24, 2020, 4:30 AM Walser, Joseph via INDOLOGY <
> indology at list.indology.info> wrote:
>
> One of my favorites, although I am having difficulty finding the source,
> is: "A knowledge of Sanskrit is of little use to a man trapped in a sewer."
> The internet tells me that this is attributed to Tom Weller, but I suspect
> that he got it from someone else.
> Greetings from the sewer.
>
> -j
>
>
> Joseph Walser
>
> Associate Professor
>
> Department of Religion
>
> Tufts University
> ------------------------------
> *From:* INDOLOGY [indology-bounces at list.indology.info] on behalf of
> Madhav Deshpande via INDOLOGY [indology at list.indology.info]
> *Sent:* Tuesday, March 24, 2020 9:41 AM
> *To:* Andrey Klebanov
> *Cc:* indology
> *Subject:* Re: [INDOLOGY] The study of Sanskrit as the epitome of
> uselessness
>
> Here is my description of what we as Indoloogs do:
>
> ???????? ?????: ???????????? ????? ????????: ?
>
> ??????? ????????????? ?? ????????????: ??
>
>
> Hope it makes you laugh at ourselves!
>
> Madhav M. Deshpande
> Professor Emeritus, Sanskrit and Linguistics
> University of Michigan, Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA
> Senior Fellow, Oxford Center for Hindu Studies
>
> [Residence: Campbell, California, USA]
>
>
> On Tue, Mar 24, 2020 at 4:56 AM Andrey Klebanov via INDOLOGY <
> indology at list.indology.info> wrote:
>
> ?To study Sanskrit? (????? ????????) became a rather popular idiom (a kind
> of meme) in Russia in 2015, and it has been used since then frequently exactly
> as an epitome of a useless time-consuming and exhausting activity, which,
> in a long run, may be still more rewarding than engaging in Russian
> politics (especially as a member of the opposition). It was popularized by
> journalist Oleg Kashin
> <https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fkashin.guru%2F&data=02%7C01%7Cchristophe.vielle%40uclouvain.be%7C40256ed0ddeb4838a5e308d7d04fdf88%7C7ab090d4fa2e4ecfbc7c4127b4d582ec%7C0%7C0%7C637206913780261790&sdata=dzY%2Fbu6SXjH5BaQOmIm3D58vgKBGcCBPnrgilGQLJHs%3D&reserved=0>,
> who has famously used this expression (the original wording was actually
> slightly different) in his debate with politician Alexey Navalny, who, in
> 2015, campaigned for opposition parties to participate at regional
> elections at any cost. See, for example, here
> <https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Flurkmore.to%2F%25D0%259E%25D0%25BB%25D0%25B5%25D0%25B3_%25D0%259A%25D0%25B0%25D1%2588%25D0%25B8%25D0%25BD%23.D0.9C.D0.B5.D0.BC.D1.8B&data=02%7C01%7Cchristophe.vielle%40uclouvain.be%7C40256ed0ddeb4838a5e308d7d04fdf88%7C7ab090d4fa2e4ecfbc7c4127b4d582ec%7C0%7C0%7C637206913780271786&sdata=PKCWauLm%2BNA7gjgDNOH8lfk%2F8U1hjVJYsjMK4GKNEkU%3D&reserved=0>
> or here
> <https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fecho.msk.ru%2Fprograms%2Fklinch%2F1742522-echo%2F&data=02%7C01%7Cchristophe.vielle%40uclouvain.be%7C40256ed0ddeb4838a5e308d7d04fdf88%7C7ab090d4fa2e4ecfbc7c4127b4d582ec%7C0%7C0%7C637206913780271786&sdata=SX4G2d2NGUl2bCu2Nr0BlwlhxknggGY5gP6nZhLEFqE%3D&reserved=0>.
> The original debate is here
> <https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fecho.msk.ru%2Fprograms%2Fklinch%2F1592616-echo%2F&data=02%7C01%7Cchristophe.vielle%40uclouvain.be%7C40256ed0ddeb4838a5e308d7d04fdf88%7C7ab090d4fa2e4ecfbc7c4127b4d582ec%7C0%7C0%7C637206913780281782&sdata=sEdcDTcXbqADX70Db4AWaA%2Fry7tTTXC20sEDuRqym2Y%3D&reserved=0>
> .
>
> best,
> Andrey
> On Mar 24, 2020 11:57 +0100, Sven Sellmer via INDOLOGY <
> indology at list.indology.info>, wrote:
>
> Dear All!
>
> One may also add a passage of Hermann Hesse's "Glasperlenspiel" here,
> though also rather in the category of useful uselessness:
>
> ? schon manche von ihnen haben ihr Leben an sehr entlegene und oft
> wunderliche Arbeiten gewendet, wie etwa jener Lodovicus crudelis, der in
> drei?igj?hriger Arbeit alle ?berlieferten alt?gyptischen Texte sowohl ins
> Griechiche wie ins Sanskrit ?bersetzt hat ?
>
> ? not few of them devoted their lives to very marginal and often rather
> strange occupations, like one Lodovicus crudelis, who in the course of
> thirty years translated all preserved Old Egyptian texts both into Greek
> and into Sanskrit ?
>
> Best wishes,
> Sven
>
> ****************************
> Sven Sellmer, PhD
> Adam Mickiewicz University
> Institute of Oriental Studies
> Department of South Asian Studies
> ul. Grunwaldzka 6
> <https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com%2Fmaps%2Fsearch%2FGrunwaldzka%2B6%2B%250D%250A%2B60-780%2BPozna%25C5%2584%2B%250D%250A%2BPOLAND%3Fentry%3Dgmail%26source%3Dg&data=02%7C01%7Cchristophe.vielle%40uclouvain.be%7C40256ed0ddeb4838a5e308d7d04fdf88%7C7ab090d4fa2e4ecfbc7c4127b4d582ec%7C0%7C0%7C637206913780281782&sdata=hRJ7u7b46XKDO4QPbxj0Iv3y8bMnhjQMnq9%2Fc%2Fp%2BytU%3D&reserved=0>
> 60-780 Pozna?
> <https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com%2Fmaps%2Fsearch%2FGrunwaldzka%2B6%2B%250D%250A%2B60-780%2BPozna%25C5%2584%2B%250D%250A%2BPOLAND%3Fentry%3Dgmail%26source%3Dg&data=02%7C01%7Cchristophe.vielle%40uclouvain.be%7C40256ed0ddeb4838a5e308d7d04fdf88%7C7ab090d4fa2e4ecfbc7c4127b4d582ec%7C0%7C0%7C637206913780291784&sdata=x3%2BTBKDvVWVHnxn7yBfpmnEeyg6RHrG7t6zWaOOSa6w%3D&reserved=0>
> POLAND
> <https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com%2Fmaps%2Fsearch%2FGrunwaldzka%2B6%2B%250D%250A%2B60-780%2BPozna%25C5%2584%2B%250D%250A%2BPOLAND%3Fentry%3Dgmail%26source%3Dg&data=02%7C01%7Cchristophe.vielle%40uclouvain.be%7C40256ed0ddeb4838a5e308d7d04fdf88%7C7ab090d4fa2e4ecfbc7c4127b4d582ec%7C0%7C0%7C637206913780301777&sdata=MMsdpQy7AnrxqYnJhX4qtpmUuwDWkR2Ons5B4NRC4jY%3D&reserved=0>
> sven.sellmer at amu.edu.pl
>
> Am 24.03.2020 um 11:24 schrieb patrick mccartney via INDOLOGY <
> indology at list.indology.info>:
>
> Sort of related, on page 100 of chapter 5, of Amazing Stories (1943)
> issue 17 no 05, the following is said:
>
> She put her hands on her hips, her
> face thoughtful. Then she grabbed hold
> of the grab-rail on the side of the door-
> way, stepped into the bipedomobile.
> She wasn?t a tall girl, but she had to
> stoop.
>
> Her eyes were grave. Suddenly she
> pointed into the distance.
>
> ?Godwa te lele!?
> ?It?s all Sanskrit to me, Jamie,? he
> said sadly. ?They?ve sure done you up
> brown, haven?t they ? ^you?ve forgotten
> entirely, haven?t you? Well, if you want
> to go in that direction, okay. It?s as
> good as any, and maybe we?ll solve a
> few mysteries while we?re at it. We
> might even find out how to get your
> memory back again.?
>
> She smiled dazzlingly. She pointed
> again.
>
> This link will take you to the relevant page -
> https://archive.org/details/Amazing_Stories_v17n05_1943-05_cape1736/page/n99/mode/2up/search/sanskrit
> <https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Farchive.org%2Fdetails%2FAmazing_Stories_v17n05_1943-05_cape1736%2Fpage%2Fn99%2Fmode%2F2up%2Fsearch%2Fsanskrit&data=02%7C01%7Cchristophe.vielle%40uclouvain.be%7C40256ed0ddeb4838a5e308d7d04fdf88%7C7ab090d4fa2e4ecfbc7c4127b4d582ec%7C0%7C0%7C637206913780301777&sdata=fepDQ26EOHnBYFmAlHjmoegKwXL69viKOuZhIE4QNkw%3D&reserved=0>
>
> All the best,
>
> ????? ???????
> Patrick McCartney, PhD
> Research Affiliate - Organization for Identity and Cultural Development
> (OICD), Kyoto
> Research Associate - Nanzan University Anthropological Institute, Nagoya,
> Japan
> Visiting Fellow - South and South-east Asian Studies
> Department, Australian National University
> Member - South Asia Research Institute (SARI), Australian National
> University
>
> Skype / Zoom - psdmccartney
> Phone + Whatsapp + Line:  +61410644259
> Twitter - @psdmccartney @yogascapesinjap
>  Yogascapes in Japan
> <https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fyogascapes.weebly.com%2F&data=02%7C01%7Cchristophe.vielle%40uclouvain.be%7C40256ed0ddeb4838a5e308d7d04fdf88%7C7ab090d4fa2e4ecfbc7c4127b4d582ec%7C0%7C0%7C637206913780311772&sdata=my0LFsuaZBcbo1aPg3usgRR4QqxQjKLucc2hV84e2JA%3D&reserved=0>
>  Academia
> <https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fpatrickmccartney.academia.edu%2F&data=02%7C01%7Cchristophe.vielle%40uclouvain.be%7C40256ed0ddeb4838a5e308d7d04fdf88%7C7ab090d4fa2e4ecfbc7c4127b4d582ec%7C0%7C0%7C637206913780311772&sdata=HSzACfx8fwRE762IOp%2BIQsFn63N7wL8pWXCb8pJnABY%3D&reserved=0>
>  Linkedin
> <https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.linkedin.com%2Fprofile%2Fview%3Fid%3D241756978%26trk%3Dnav_responsive_tab_profile&data=02%7C01%7Cchristophe.vielle%40uclouvain.be%7C40256ed0ddeb4838a5e308d7d04fdf88%7C7ab090d4fa2e4ecfbc7c4127b4d582ec%7C0%7C0%7C637206913780321769&sdata=iF5MqCLKGXMFUJoorer1hZm9YPL8osDRUJ8QVwumGnM%3D&reserved=0>
>  Modern Yoga Research
> <https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.modernyogaresearch.org%2Fevents%2F&data=02%7C01%7Cchristophe.vielle%40uclouvain.be%7C40256ed0ddeb4838a5e308d7d04fdf88%7C7ab090d4fa2e4ecfbc7c4127b4d582ec%7C0%7C0%7C637206913780331763&sdata=e7IdTC4ss7TQE3ZO%2FrmwERkxdkIEgQaH2wbDT9HM0t0%3D&reserved=0>
>
> *bodhap?rvam calema* ;-)
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>    -
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Tue, Mar 24, 2020 at 6:38 PM Matthew Kapstein via INDOLOGY <
> indology at list.indology.info> wrote:
>
> This reminds me that one of my teachers, the great Prof. Padmanabh Jaini,
> lost several students in the late 70s because the job market seemed
> particularly bad. They switched to law and easily passed the special
> examinations, the "Law Boards," for entering American Law Schools. Jaini
> joked that the field could be saved and even expanded by converting
> Sanskrit to a pre-law required course.
>
> Matthew Kapstein
> Directeur d'?tudes, ?m?rite
> Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes, Paris
>
> Numata Visiting Professor of Buddhist Studies,
> The University of Chicago
> ------------------------------
> From: INDOLOGY <indology-bounces at list.indology.info> on behalf of
> Christophe Vielle via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info>
> Sent: Tuesday, March 24, 2020 4:32 AM
> To: Tieken, H.J.H. <H.J.H.Tieken at hum.leidenuniv.nl>
> Cc: indology <indology at list.indology.info>
> Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] The study of Sanskrit as the epitome of uselessness
>
> The Classicist Nuccio Ordine has published a stimulating (useful) essay
> "De l'utilit? de l'inutile" (English translation: The Usefulness of the
> Useless").
> where Sanskrit studies, together with Classics, are given as an example of
> (useful) usefulness, cf. p. 95 of the Engl. Transl.:
> https://books.google.com/books?id=NCArDgAAQBAJ
> <https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fbooks.google.be%2Fbooks%3Fid%3DNCArDgAAQBAJ%26pg%3DPA95%26lpg%3DPA95%26dq%3Dnuccio%2Bordine%2Bthe%2Busefulness%2Bof%2Bthe%2Buseless%2Bsanskrit%26source%3Dbl%26ots%3DJmMiqWAORS%26sig%3DACfU3U0_SDl4ZpYaNsGhUnflgLpFvJYTDg%26hl%3Den%26sa%3DX%26ved%3D2ahUKEwj-rMSM5bLoAhXEMewKHYVdDp4Q6AEwAXoECAoQAQ%23v%3Donepage%26q%3Dnuccio%2520ordine%2520the%2520usefulness%2520of%2520the%2520useless%2520sanskrit%26f%3Dfalse&data=02%7C01%7Cchristophe.vielle%40uclouvain.be%7C40256ed0ddeb4838a5e308d7d04fdf88%7C7ab090d4fa2e4ecfbc7c4127b4d582ec%7C0%7C0%7C637206913780331763&sdata=q2LGOUxS9kLJgmxM36DwTNlDcDoe%2FnnX7DievE5sxH0%3D&reserved=0>
> See also it in his oral presentations:
>
> https://uclouvain.be/en/research-institutes/incal/conference-du-pr-nuccio-ordine.html
> Quel danger courons-nous actuellement ? Dans une universit?-entreprise,
> quand un professeur de sanskrit aura deux ?tudiants, le Conseil
> d?administration de l?Universit? pourra dire que celle-ci ne peut pas se
> permettre le luxe de payer un professeur de sanskrit pour deux ?tudiants.
> Demain, cela sera pour dix ?tudiants en grec, et apr?s-demain pour quinze
> ?tudiants en latin.
>
> Le 24 mars 2020 ? 09:49, Tieken, H.J.H. via INDOLOGY <
> indology at list.indology.info> a ?crit :
>
> Dear List members,
> Last night I started reading Ever After by Graham Swift. On p. 3 of the
> pocket edition (Vintage International) of 1993 we hear the protagonist
> think:
>
> "Before they [academics] are sixty, they are emulating one of the many
> varieties: ... the wide-eyed, latter-day infant, helpless in all mundane
> matters but possessed of a profound understanding of Sanskrit."
>
> A few months ago I was reading Nader tot U (1969) by Gerard van 't Reve
> gain. One of the characters has to fill in a profession on an official
> paper. In the end he decides to fill in "indoloog", which is considered to
> be better than "general in the Hungarian army" or "stratenmaker of zee"
> (general dogsbody) (p. 113). There is some confusion if indoloog refers to
> a civil servant in the Dutch Indies here (Indie verloren, rampspoed
> geboren) or to an indologist, which is later resolved by remarks about
> gurus and bhakti. I was amazed to see that I had bought the book in the
> summer of 1970, just a few months before I started with the study of
> Sanskrit.
>
> Are there more accidental references of this type to sanskritists or
> indologists in literature?
> (Leaving aside Lee Siegel's novel about Professor Roth being killed by
> Monier-Williams Sanskrit dictionary.)
>
> With kind regards Herman
>
> Herman Tieken
> Stationsweg 58
> <https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com%2Fmaps%2Fsearch%2FStationsweg%2B58%2B%250D%250A%2B2515%2BBP%2BDen%2BHaag%2B%250D%250A%2BThe%2BNetherlands%3Fentry%3Dgmail%26source%3Dg&data=02%7C01%7Cchristophe.vielle%40uclouvain.be%7C40256ed0ddeb4838a5e308d7d04fdf88%7C7ab090d4fa2e4ecfbc7c4127b4d582ec%7C0%7C0%7C637206913780341764&sdata=STlWaWsjDPhBnLYa5Ke%2B4zVFn1amtKs5szWk%2FjMFWE0%3D&reserved=0>
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> website: hermantieken.com
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> (she/her/they/them)
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From brendan.gillon at mcgill.ca  Wed Mar 25 17:00:08 2020
From: brendan.gillon at mcgill.ca (Brendan S. Gillon, Prof.)
Date: Wed, 25 Mar 20 17:00:08 +0000
Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_[INDOLOGY]_Meaning_of_abhagnam=C4=81nam_in_this_verse?=
In-Reply-To: <CAKdt-Cf4DdAsbxNUKqN3H6ZTXsu0_CtVBkJU-74Ff0SnwgSw0g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <6e488ca0-a0c6-e584-bfee-dd31b18bcafb@mcgill.ca>

Yes, I was wondering the same thing.

Brendan

On 2020-03-25 11:54 a.m., Dominik Wujastyk via INDOLOGY wrote:
might "self-respect" capture m?na  better than "pride"?  "Pride" includes a pejorative sense that self-respect doesn't.





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--

Brendan S. Gillon                       email: brendan.gillon at mcgill.ca<mailto:brendan.gillon at mcgill.ca>
Department of Linguistics
McGill University                       tel.:  001 514 398 4868
1085, Avenue Docteur-Penfield
Montreal, Quebec                        fax.:  001 514 398 7088
H3A 1A7  CANADA

webpage: http://webpages.mcgill.ca/staff/group3/bgillo/web/



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From steiner at staff.uni-marburg.de  Wed Mar 25 17:06:47 2020
From: steiner at staff.uni-marburg.de (Roland Steiner)
Date: Wed, 25 Mar 20 18:06:47 +0100
Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_[INDOLOGY]_Meaning_of_abhagnam=C4=81nam_in_this_verse?=
In-Reply-To: <4C0C4300-0D2E-45CC-A54E-222C6735CDA4@illinois.edu>
Message-ID: <20200325180647.Horde.3zvUPRKvBsEHABlllAFezrD@home.staff.uni-marburg.de>

> In other words, ???????? is a bahuvr?hi ? ?????? ???? ???: ?? ????????:
>
> So the BR gloss catches the spirit, even if not the exact grammatical
> construction.

When B?htlingk records a compound with a substantive final element  
(here: -/m?na/) as an ?Adj[ective]? (= MW?s ?mfn? = Aptes ?/a/.?), it  
is a Bahuvr?hi; see also pw s.v. /bhagnam?na: /"Adj./ /dessen  
Ehrgef?hl verletzt worden ist"? //(lit.: "whose sense of honor has  
been violated").

Accordingly, he translates the verse in his "Indische Spr?che" (No. 5023):

yaj j?vyate k?a?am api prathita? manu?yair
vij??navikramaya?obhir abhagnam?nam /
tan n?ma j?vitam iha pravadanti tajj???
k?ko ?pi j?vati cira? ca bali? ca bhu?kte //

?Wenn Menschen auch nur ein ganz kurzes Leben leben, das aber ob der  
Kenntnisse, des Heldenmuthes und des Ruhmes weit gepriesen wird und  
BEI DEM DIE EHRE NICHT LEIDET (lit.: in which/where honour does not  
suffer), so nennen die Kenner der Sache dieses ein wahres Leben: auch  
eine Kr?he lebt lange und verzehrt die hingeworfene Spende.?

It (/abhagnam?nam/) refers here to a neuter (/yad/). By the way,  
B?htlingk conceives the instrumental /manu?yai? /as the logical  
subject to /j?vyate /(?Wenn Menschen [...] ein [...] Leben leben?,  
?When men live a [...] life?) and connects the instrumental  
/vij??navikramaya?obhi? /with /prathitam /(?ob der Kenntnisse, des  
Heldenmuthes und des Ruhmes weit gepriesen?, ?widely praised for its  
knowledge, heroism and fame?).

With best regards,
Roland Steiner


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From krishnaprasadah.g at gmail.com  Wed Mar 25 17:33:35 2020
From: krishnaprasadah.g at gmail.com (Krishnaprasad G)
Date: Wed, 25 Mar 20 23:03:35 +0530
Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_[INDOLOGY]=09Meaning_of_abhagnam=C4=81nam_in_this_verse?=
In-Reply-To: <20200325180647.Horde.3zvUPRKvBsEHABlllAFezrD@home.staff.uni-marburg.de>
Message-ID: <CAODNnZgsBn-f5vmcDXwt2JbCM=F1UBvWv4AT6VMP+ug5hHj5Sw@mail.gmail.com>

In case if anyone is interested, this verse has variant reading in many
book with missing abhagnamana word

On Wed, Mar 25, 2020, 10:37 PM Roland Steiner via INDOLOGY <
indology at list.indology.info> wrote:

>
> > In other words, ???????? is a bahuvr?hi ? ?????? ???? ???: ?? ????????:
> >
> > So the BR gloss catches the spirit, even if not the exact grammatical
> > construction.
>
> When B?htlingk records a compound with a substantive final element (here: -
> *m?na*) as an ?Adj[ective]? (= MW?s ?mfn? = Aptes ?*a*.?), it is a
> Bahuvr?hi; see also pw s.v. *bhagnam?na:* "Adj. *dessen Ehrgef?hl
> verletzt worden ist" * (lit.: "whose sense of honor has been violated").
>
> Accordingly, he translates the verse in his "Indische Spr?che" (No. 5023):
>
> yaj j?vyate k?a?am api prathita? manu?yair
> vij??navikramaya?obhir abhagnam?nam /
> tan n?ma j?vitam iha pravadanti tajj???
> k?ko ?pi j?vati cira? ca bali? ca bhu?kte //
>
> ?Wenn Menschen auch nur ein ganz kurzes Leben leben, das aber ob der
> Kenntnisse, des Heldenmuthes und des Ruhmes weit gepriesen wird und *bei
> dem die Ehre nicht leidet* (lit.: in which/where honour does not suffer),
> so nennen die Kenner der Sache dieses ein wahres Leben: auch eine Kr?he
> lebt lange und verzehrt die hingeworfene Spende.?
>
> It (*abhagnam?nam*) refers here to a neuter (*yad*). By the way,
> B?htlingk conceives the instrumental *manu?yai?* as the logical subject
> to *j?vyate* (?Wenn Menschen [...] ein [...] Leben leben?, ?When men live
> a [...] life?) and connects the instrumental *vij??navikramaya?obhi?*
> with *prathitam* (?ob der Kenntnisse, des Heldenmuthes und des Ruhmes
> weit gepriesen?, ?widely praised for its knowledge, heroism and fame?).
>
> With best regards,
> Roland Steiner
>
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
> committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
> unsubscribe)
>


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From soni at staff.uni-marburg.de  Wed Mar 25 17:38:36 2020
From: soni at staff.uni-marburg.de (soni at staff.uni-marburg.de)
Date: Wed, 25 Mar 20 18:38:36 +0100
Subject: [INDOLOGY] The study of Sanskrit as the epitome of uselessness
In-Reply-To: <1FDC6D48-7AF4-4738-AEA9-A042662718CF@inria.fr>
Message-ID: <20200325183836.Horde.oqdQZDWG5Ddqu7TqNAXARpS@home.staff.uni-marburg.de>

When in the 1980s I bought, second hand, Lanman's A Sanskrit Reader,  
the previous owner wrote this in clear writing on p. xv below Lanman's  
Introductory Suggestions:
Quit now before it's too late!

Scanned and attached the first paragraph.
I didn't follow the advice to quit.
Jay Soni






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From james.hartzell at gmail.com  Wed Mar 25 17:50:41 2020
From: james.hartzell at gmail.com (James Hartzell)
Date: Wed, 25 Mar 20 18:50:41 +0100
Subject: [INDOLOGY] The study of Sanskrit as the epitome of uselessness
In-Reply-To: <20200325183836.Horde.oqdQZDWG5Ddqu7TqNAXARpS@home.staff.uni-marburg.de>
Message-ID: <8A753025-7B67-4721-8572-1AC534F95BBB@gmail.com>

As Sanskrit students at Harvard back when Ingalls was chair, the word around campus was that the Harvard Business School used Sanskrit as the example of the completely useless subject

> On 25 Mar 2020, at 18:39, Jayandra Soni via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info> wrote:
> 
> ?When in the 1980s I bought, second hand, Lanman's A Sanskrit Reader, the previous owner wrote this in clear writing on p. xv below Lanman's Introductory Suggestions:
> Quit now before it's too late!
> 
> Scanned and attached the first paragraph.
> I didn't follow the advice to quit.
> Jay Soni
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> --
> <Written below Lanman's Introductory Suggestions.pdf>
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee)
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From will.sweetman at gmail.com  Wed Mar 25 19:32:20 2020
From: will.sweetman at gmail.com (Will Sweetman)
Date: Thu, 26 Mar 20 08:32:20 +1300
Subject: [INDOLOGY] The study of Sanskrit as the epitome of uselessness
In-Reply-To: <8A753025-7B67-4721-8572-1AC534F95BBB@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAMw=p+sDj+O85ZOhJAYjM+5Qa23x0Qiq0J-6=f62WS4Z6wCTNQ@mail.gmail.com>

While I'm loving these examples of the uselessness of Sanskrit (and see the
first chapter of Fred Hardy's The Religious Culture of India: Love, Power
and Wisdom for another example from Canetti's Die Blendung), I'd also like
to note something Mark Allon told me some years ago, when we introduced
Sanskrit at Otago. Apparently in one or other of the various international
university rankings, teaching Sanskrit was one of the things which elevated
a university's rank. Perhaps it was a sign the university was wealthy
enough to expend resources on something useless? A sort of costly
signalling. The peacock's tail of academia, as it were.

Best wishes to all

Will

On Thu, 26 Mar 2020 at 06:51, James Hartzell via INDOLOGY <
indology at list.indology.info> wrote:

> As Sanskrit students at Harvard back when Ingalls was chair, the word
> around campus was that the Harvard Business School used Sanskrit as the
> example of the completely useless subject
>
> > On 25 Mar 2020, at 18:39, Jayandra Soni via INDOLOGY <
> indology at list.indology.info> wrote:
> >
> > ?When in the 1980s I bought, second hand, Lanman's A Sanskrit Reader,
> the previous owner wrote this in clear writing on p. xv below Lanman's
> Introductory Suggestions:
> > Quit now before it's too late!
> >
> > Scanned and attached the first paragraph.
> > I didn't follow the advice to quit.
> > Jay Soni
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > <Written below Lanman's Introductory Suggestions.pdf>
> > _______________________________________________
> > INDOLOGY mailing list
> > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
> committee)
> > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options
> or unsubscribe)
>
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
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> committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
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From witzel at fas.harvard.edu  Wed Mar 25 19:43:03 2020
From: witzel at fas.harvard.edu (Witzel, Michael)
Date: Wed, 25 Mar 20 19:43:03 +0000
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Nick Allen
In-Reply-To: <95BBB49E-D52F-4C09-B0B5-2BD61FC42233@cardiff.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <BC17AAE5-13D4-4D7D-B35D-1CE13E609063@fas.harvard.edu>

Echoing the sentiments of many on this (and other lists):

Nick was a good man and a great friend. Since the early nineties he participated in our Round Tables, and then in the meetings of our Association for Comparative Mythology (<compmyth.org<http://compmyth.org>>), for many years.

I particularly liked his comment (about my myth book) criticizing me that I had quoted him too many times!

We will now publish his presumably last paper, as per his last wishes,  in our myth journal, CM:
<https://compmyth.org/journal/index.php/cm>

RIP !

Michael

On Mar 24, 2020, at 5:51 PM, Geoffrey Samuel via INDOLOGY <INDOLOGY at list.indology.info<mailto:INDOLOGY at list.indology.info>> wrote:

I will miss Nick greatly too. I have known him for many years, and he was a good friend. I last saw him late last year in Oxford.

I entirely agree with the very positive comments people have been making. He was a warm, supportive and wise man, and I learned a lot from him.

Geoffrey

On 25 Mar 2020, at 08:42, Greg Bailey via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info<mailto:indology at list.indology.info>> wrote:

Dear All,

Wonderful man. He came to a number of our conferences held in Dubrovnik on the epics and Pur??as, and made a great contribution.

Cheers,

Greg Bailey

_______________________________________________
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Michael Witzel
Wales Prof. of Sanskrit, Dept. of South Asian Studies, 1 Bow Street, Cambridge, MA 02138, USA
ph. 1 - 617 496 2990
witzel at fas.harvard.edu<mailto:witzel at fas.harvard.edu>
www.people.fas.harvard.edu/~witzel/mwpage.htm





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From franco at uni-leipzig.de  Wed Mar 25 19:47:18 2020
From: franco at uni-leipzig.de (Eli Franco)
Date: Wed, 25 Mar 20 20:47:18 +0100
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Claus Oetke
In-Reply-To: <CAB3-dzdmSO6Af3oQA+8H7Hua8wHL_B1eDzeEnMTBRuzfHo9rFg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20200325204718.Horde.bP1aMxFEPELsRP192kFBOG_@mail.uni-leipzig.de>




Dear List members,

I am sad to inform you of the untimely death of Claus Oetke in an
accident that happened in Costa Rica, where he and his wife Cynthia  
lived for the
last few years. This happened already last December, but I saw no
notice of it, neither here nor in the German Indology list.

A short obituary can be found at
https://www.su.se/asia/in-memory-of-professor-claus-oetke-1947-2019-1.481872

Claus was a prolific writer. Some of his publications are available online at
https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Claus_Oetke

His masterpiece was no doubt the monumental ??Ich? und das Ich:  
Analytische Untersuchungen zur buddhistisch-brahmanischen  
?tmankontroverse? (1988). In this book, he applied Strawson?s theory  
of person to the analysis of the concepts of ?tman and an?tman in the  
Pali Canon and extensively analyzed the proofs of ?tman in the  
brahmanical philosophical traditions. J.W. de Jong, not renowned for  
his over-generous compliments, stated in his review that Oetke?s work  
was the most important book ever written on the subject. This  
evaluation probably still stands.
Claus published numerous monographs and articles, mostly on Indian  
philosophy and dialectics, both of the Buddhist and Brahmanical  
traditions. Of special interest are his "Zur Methode der Analyse  
philosophischer Sutratexte: Die Pram???a Passagen der Nyayas?tren"  
(1991) and several papers on N?g?rjuna, which unfortunately did not  
crystalize into a full-length monograph. Unlike many Madhyamaka  
specialists he maintained that Madhyamaka as presented in the writings  
of N?g?rjuna holds a clear metaphysical position (namely, that from  
the point of view of absolute reality, empirical reality or everyday  
practice does not exist).

Claus also had an unusual gift for languages. Next to the languages of  
Buddhism (Sanskrit, Pali, Tibetan and Chinese; for a reason that I do  
not recall, he refused to learn Japanese), he mastered modern Indian  
languages such as Hindi, Urdu and Marathi, and a large number of  
European and other languages. We once counted them and arrived at  
twenty-seven or twenty-nine that he knew reasonably well ? we set
the bar at being able to read newspapers: they included, for example,  
Basque, Turkish and  Swahili.

For all his eccentricities, he will be greatly missed.

-- 
Prof. Dr. Eli Franco
Institut f?r Indologie und Zentralasienwissenschaften
Schillerstr. 6
04109 Leipzig

Ph. +49 341 9737 121, 9737 120 (dept. office)
Fax +49 341 9737 148







From mmdesh at umich.edu  Wed Mar 25 20:05:04 2020
From: mmdesh at umich.edu (Madhav Deshpande)
Date: Wed, 25 Mar 20 13:05:04 -0700
Subject: [INDOLOGY] The study of Sanskrit as the epitome of uselessness
In-Reply-To: <CAMw=p+sDj+O85ZOhJAYjM+5Qa23x0Qiq0J-6=f62WS4Z6wCTNQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAB3-dzfjAGpY9XV7gDBYnPeppnv4Hz4rA3vGc-aLEznmMe2UbQ@mail.gmail.com>

One of the students in my elementary Sanskrit class at Michigan wrote me a
note saying the following: "I am terrified in your class that you will ask
me to formulate a sentence.  I cannot sleep for three nights before the
class and three nights after the class.  It is a dead language any way.
Why should we care?"  I have kept this note in some file.

Madhav M. Deshpande
Professor Emeritus, Sanskrit and Linguistics
University of Michigan, Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA
Senior Fellow, Oxford Center for Hindu Studies

[Residence: Campbell, California, USA]


On Wed, Mar 25, 2020 at 12:33 PM Will Sweetman via INDOLOGY <
indology at list.indology.info> wrote:

> While I'm loving these examples of the uselessness of Sanskrit (and see
> the first chapter of Fred Hardy's The Religious Culture of India: Love,
> Power and Wisdom for another example from Canetti's Die Blendung), I'd also
> like to note something Mark Allon told me some years ago, when we
> introduced Sanskrit at Otago. Apparently in one or other of the various
> international university rankings, teaching Sanskrit was one of the things
> which elevated a university's rank. Perhaps it was a sign the university
> was wealthy enough to expend resources on something useless? A sort of
> costly signalling. The peacock's tail of academia, as it were.
>
> Best wishes to all
>
> Will
>
> On Thu, 26 Mar 2020 at 06:51, James Hartzell via INDOLOGY <
> indology at list.indology.info> wrote:
>
>> As Sanskrit students at Harvard back when Ingalls was chair, the word
>> around campus was that the Harvard Business School used Sanskrit as the
>> example of the completely useless subject
>>
>> > On 25 Mar 2020, at 18:39, Jayandra Soni via INDOLOGY <
>> indology at list.indology.info> wrote:
>> >
>> > ?When in the 1980s I bought, second hand, Lanman's A Sanskrit Reader,
>> the previous owner wrote this in clear writing on p. xv below Lanman's
>> Introductory Suggestions:
>> > Quit now before it's too late!
>> >
>> > Scanned and attached the first paragraph.
>> > I didn't follow the advice to quit.
>> > Jay Soni
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > --
>> > <Written below Lanman's Introductory Suggestions.pdf>
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > INDOLOGY mailing list
>> > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>> > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
>> committee)
>> > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options
>> or unsubscribe)
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
>> committee)
>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
>> unsubscribe)
>>
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
> committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
> unsubscribe)
>


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From vbd203 at googlemail.com  Wed Mar 25 21:09:34 2020
From: vbd203 at googlemail.com (victor davella)
Date: Wed, 25 Mar 20 22:09:34 +0100
Subject: [INDOLOGY] The study of Sanskrit as the epitome of uselessness
In-Reply-To: <20200325183836.Horde.oqdQZDWG5Ddqu7TqNAXARpS@home.staff.uni-marburg.de>
Message-ID: <CAETY2G2pW8zLfrzCRP-HZ-3AfHJHFJ2SEYmbxd0atuXYxh6MFA@mail.gmail.com>

Regarding:  Introductory Suggestions:
Quit now before it's too late!

Almost the same quote in the same location is given in Felix Otter's
Grundkurs Sanskrit, p. ix:
,,Give up now before it's too late.''
Handschriftlicher Zusatz eines anonymen Vor-
besitzers unter der ?berschrift ,,Introductory
Suggestions'' in einem antiquarisch erworbenen
Exemplar von C.R. Lanmans Sanskrit Reader.

Could this be the very same book or is it a coincidence?

All the Best,
Victor






On Wed, Mar 25, 2020 at 6:39 PM Jayandra Soni via INDOLOGY <
indology at list.indology.info> wrote:

> When in the 1980s I bought, second hand, Lanman's A Sanskrit Reader,
> the previous owner wrote this in clear writing on p. xv below Lanman's
> Introductory Suggestions:
> Quit now before it's too late!
>
> Scanned and attached the first paragraph.
> I didn't follow the advice to quit.
> Jay Soni
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
> committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
> unsubscribe)
>


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From brendan.gillon at mcgill.ca  Thu Mar 26 01:11:41 2020
From: brendan.gillon at mcgill.ca (Brendan S. Gillon, Prof.)
Date: Thu, 26 Mar 20 01:11:41 +0000
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Claus Oetke
In-Reply-To: <20200325204718.Horde.bP1aMxFEPELsRP192kFBOG_@mail.uni-leipzig.de>
Message-ID: <58f32df4-5a0d-23a1-d350-557ba77a5b63@mcgill.ca>

Thank you Eli for bringing this sad news to our attention. Claus is not 
someone to whom I immediately took, but over the years grew to 
appreciate both him and his ideas. I am very sad to learn of his death.

Brendan

On 2020-03-25 3:47 p.m., Eli Franco via INDOLOGY wrote:
>
>
>
> Dear List members,
>
> I am sad to inform you of the untimely death of Claus Oetke in an
> accident that happened in Costa Rica, where he and his wife Cynthia 
> lived for the
> last few years. This happened already last December, but I saw no
> notice of it, neither here nor in the German Indology list.
>
> A short obituary can be found at
> https://www.su.se/asia/in-memory-of-professor-claus-oetke-1947-2019-1.481872 
>
>
> Claus was a prolific writer. Some of his publications are available 
> online at
> https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Claus_Oetke
>
> His masterpiece was no doubt the monumental ??Ich? und das Ich: 
> Analytische Untersuchungen zur buddhistisch-brahmanischen 
> ?tmankontroverse? (1988). In this book, he applied Strawson?s theory 
> of person to the analysis of the concepts of ?tman and an?tman in the 
> Pali Canon and extensively analyzed the proofs of ?tman in the 
> brahmanical philosophical traditions. J.W. de Jong, not renowned for 
> his over-generous compliments, stated in his review that Oetke?s work 
> was the most important book ever written on the subject. This 
> evaluation probably still stands.
> Claus published numerous monographs and articles, mostly on Indian 
> philosophy and dialectics, both of the Buddhist and Brahmanical 
> traditions. Of special interest are his "Zur Methode der Analyse 
> philosophischer Sutratexte: Die Pram???a Passagen der Nyayas?tren" 
> (1991) and several papers on N?g?rjuna, which unfortunately did not 
> crystalize into a full-length monograph. Unlike many Madhyamaka 
> specialists he maintained that Madhyamaka as presented in the writings 
> of N?g?rjuna holds a clear metaphysical position (namely, that from 
> the point of view of absolute reality, empirical reality or everyday 
> practice does not exist).
>
> Claus also had an unusual gift for languages. Next to the languages of 
> Buddhism (Sanskrit, Pali, Tibetan and Chinese; for a reason that I do 
> not recall, he refused to learn Japanese), he mastered modern Indian 
> languages such as Hindi, Urdu and Marathi, and a large number of 
> European and other languages. We once counted them and arrived at 
> twenty-seven or twenty-nine that he knew reasonably well ? we set
> the bar at being able to read newspapers: they included, for example, 
> Basque, Turkish and? Swahili.
>
> For all his eccentricities, he will be greatly missed.
>
-- 

Brendan S. Gillon                       email: brendan.gillon at mcgill.ca
Department of Linguistics
McGill University                       tel.:  001 514 398 4868
1085, Avenue Docteur-Penfield
Montreal, Quebec                        fax.:  001 514 398 7088
H3A 1A7  CANADA

webpage: http://webpages.mcgill.ca/staff/group3/bgillo/web/





From vasishtha.spier at gmail.com  Thu Mar 26 02:27:35 2020
From: vasishtha.spier at gmail.com (Harry Spier)
Date: Wed, 25 Mar 20 22:27:35 -0400
Subject: [INDOLOGY] National Emergency Library
Message-ID: <CAJ3b0o97bY8uQEzBT3aVTMth1Veo842_aM4Q9nDeNTNpWh51AA@mail.gmail.com>

In case some list members haven't seen the announcement by Archive.org of
a national emergency library of digitized books.

http://blog.archive.org/2020/03/24/announcing-a-national-emergency-library-to-provide-digitized-books-to-students-and-the-public/?iax=ntlemrlib%7cctalnk


Harry Spier


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From zydenbos at uni-muenchen.de  Thu Mar 26 06:52:52 2020
From: zydenbos at uni-muenchen.de (Robert Zydenbos)
Date: Thu, 26 Mar 20 14:52:52 +0800
Subject: [INDOLOGY] The study of Sanskrit as the epitome of uselessness
In-Reply-To: <093c6cde98454cd984fe6480307e3c7f@hum.leidenuniv.nl>
Message-ID: <4b6df5aa-7357-5f95-c988-f3156c197f9f@uni-muenchen.de>

I recall a short story (I forgot the title. It's the first story, I believe, in the collection *Fantastische vertellingen*) by the Dutch author Ferdinand Bordewijk, in which a student in Leiden complains that in Sanskrit class they have to read K?lid?sa, whose name according to this student is a misnomer: he ought to be called 'Kan-die-dazen' (translatable as 'man, can he blab a lot of nonsense').

Robert Zydenbos

On 3/24/20 4:49 PM, Tieken, H.J.H. via INDOLOGY wrote:
>
> Dear List members,
>
> Last night I started reading [?]
>


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From jessie.pons at ruhr-uni-bochum.de  Thu Mar 26 08:11:42 2020
From: jessie.pons at ruhr-uni-bochum.de (Jessie Pons)
Date: Thu, 26 Mar 20 09:11:42 +0100
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Sculpture from Rajasthan -Thar Desert
Message-ID: <76c870083df252a9d6c03892b6aa5cc0@ruhr-uni-bochum.de>

Dear list members,

A colleague from the Institute for Classical Archaeology has sent me 
this picture of what seems to be a fairly recent panel discovered in 
Rajasthan. I can interpret the iconography but I cannot decipher the 
inscription. I would be very grateful to you if you could indicate what 
the latter says and/or refer me to similar images.

Many thanks in advance for your helpful replies!

All the best,
Jessie Pons

-- 
Jun.-Prof. Dr. Jessie Pons
Professor for the History of South Asian Religions
CERES ? Centre for the Study of Religions
K?te-Hamburger-Kolleg ?Dynamics in the History of Religions between Asia 
and Europe"
Ruhr-Universit?t Bochum
Universit?tsstra?e 90a
44789 Bochum
Tel. 02 34 32 22955
E-Mail: jessie.pons at rub.de
Room 1/04
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From psdmccartney at gmail.com  Thu Mar 26 08:25:41 2020
From: psdmccartney at gmail.com (patrick mccartney)
Date: Thu, 26 Mar 20 17:25:41 +0900
Subject: =?utf-8?Q?[INDOLOGY]_pr=C4=81=E1=B9=87=C4=81y=C4=81ma_query?=
Message-ID: <CAEzwJrAHQzguzKoF9+jgF8QL=AEXp3-bYUWU3Zou6efieFVGFQ@mail.gmail.com>

Dear Friends,

there is a particular breath work for cultivating endurance amongst the
training manuals of Ninjas and proponents of the syncretic mountain
asceticism, known as shugend?, which is called the "mountaineer's breath" (
??????, *tozan-ka no koky?*). It has an interesting paradiddle-like ratio
of inhalation/exhalation that supposedly can extend one's ability to
stealthily run across mountains at night, as long as the individual
breathed in this complicated way while running... I've recently tried
it...I guess, I need more practice.
Some stories say that a high-level *ninjutsu-sha* could run up to 200kms in
a day! These extend into the stories of the "marathon monks" that, as part
of their spiritual duty would run a marathon, everyday for days on end.
Life without Netflix is unbounded with potential, it seems.


*Anyways, the rhythmic pattern for this breath, is: *
*1 round = 1-inhalation, 2-exhalations, 1-inhalation, 1-exhalation,
2-inhalations, 1-exhalation*

*I'm wondering if this is similar to any ha?ha yogic pr???y?ma? *

I'm not implying any causal link, necessarily. I leave that to others, who,
in common parlance across various social media make consonant claims.
Interestingly, a re-orientalized and imagined mythical Ninja culture is
framed as being able to help reduce stress and tension, make people fitter,
run for the train... and generally more able to endure more of life's
problems, and, also have a transformative potential related to the twins of
transglobal yoga's popularity: 1) accumulate power(s) and 2) achieve moral
reformation.

All the best,

????? ???????
Patrick McCartney, PhD
Research Affiliate - Organization for Identity and Cultural Development
(OICD), Kyoto
Research Associate - Nanzan University Anthropological Institute, Nagoya,
Japan
Visiting Fellow - South and South-east Asian Studies Department, Australian
National University
Member - South Asia Research Institute (SARI), Australian National
University

Skype / Zoom - psdmccartney
Phone + Whatsapp + Line:  +61410644259
Twitter - @psdmccartney @yogascapesinjap
 Yogascapes in Japan <http://yogascapes.weebly.com/> Academia
<https://patrickmccartney.academia.edu/> Linkedin
<https://www.linkedin.com/profile/view?id=241756978&trk=nav_responsive_tab_profile>
 Modern Yoga Research <http://www.modernyogaresearch.org/events/>

*bodhap?rvam calema* ;-)







   -


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From martingansten at gmail.com  Thu Mar 26 09:08:43 2020
From: martingansten at gmail.com (Martin Gansten)
Date: Thu, 26 Mar 20 10:08:43 +0100
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Sculpture from Rajasthan -Thar Desert
In-Reply-To: <76c870083df252a9d6c03892b6aa5cc0@ruhr-uni-bochum.de>
Message-ID: <a19e2a8c-09b4-c345-e2d2-d0bcb3d8bc95@gmail.com>

The first part of the inscription is a date: /?r?? || sa? 1854 var?e (?) 
vais??a sudi 15 v?re budha [...] /I can't quite make sense of the rest, 
at least not offhand, but Wednesday, sudi/?ukla 15 of Vai??kha in 
Vikrama sa?vat 1854 corresponds to 10 May, 1797 CE.

Best wishes,
Martin Gansten


Den 2020-03-26 kl. 09:11, skrev Jessie Pons via INDOLOGY:
> Dear list members,
>
> A colleague from the Institute for Classical Archaeology has sent me 
> this picture of what seems to be a fairly recent panel discovered in 
> Rajasthan. I can interpret the iconography but I cannot decipher the 
> inscription. I would be very grateful to you if you could indicate 
> what the latter says and/or refer me to similar images.
>
> Many thanks in advance for your helpful replies!
>
> All the best,
> Jessie Pons
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe)



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From eastwestcultural at yahoo.com  Thu Mar 26 11:20:37 2020
From: eastwestcultural at yahoo.com (Dean Michael Anderson)
Date: Thu, 26 Mar 20 11:20:37 +0000
Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_[INDOLOGY]_pr=C4=81=E1=B9=87=C4=81y=C4=81ma_query?=
In-Reply-To: <CAEzwJrAHQzguzKoF9+jgF8QL=AEXp3-bYUWU3Zou6efieFVGFQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <294215168.1526419.1585221637852@mail.yahoo.com>

 There is a similar well-known practice in the Tibetan tradition. I'll let our Tibetan experts elaborate.
There is also a well-known interaction going back centuries between Hindu yogis and Tibetan Buddhist yogis - they even revere some of the same adepts, especially in the Nath traditions. Among the actual yogic practitioners, the separation between Hinduism and Buddhism is not always so clear cut (the same is often true with Islamic fakirs and Sikhs as well).

So, I'd say, yes, there are similarities -- among the practitioners many would even go farther and say they are the same. I'm not aware of most of the scholarly literature on the subject. I'd be interested in what others might provide.
Best,
Dean

    On Thursday, March 26, 2020, 1:57:01 PM GMT+5:30, patrick mccartney via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info> wrote:  
 
 Dear Friends,?
there is a particular breath work for cultivating endurance amongst the training manuals of Ninjas and proponents of the syncretic mountain asceticism, known as shugend?, which is called the?"mountaineer's breath" (??????,?tozan-ka no koky?). It has an interesting paradiddle-like ratio of inhalation/exhalation that supposedly can extend one's ability to stealthily?run across mountains at night, as long as the individual breathed in this complicated way while running... I've recently tried it...I guess, I need more practice.Some stories say that a high-level ninjutsu-sha could run up to 200kms in a day! These extend into the stories of the "marathon monks" that, as part of their spiritual duty would run a marathon, everyday for days on end. Life without Netflix is unbounded with potential, it seems.
Anyways, the rhythmic pattern for this breath, is:?
1 round =?1-inhalation, 2-exhalations, 1-inhalation, 1-exhalation, 2-inhalations, 1-exhalation
I'm wondering if this is similar to any ha?ha yogic pr???y?ma??
I'm not implying any causal link, necessarily. I leave that to others, who, in common parlance across various social media make consonant claims. Interestingly, a re-orientalized and imagined mythical Ninja culture is framed as being able to help reduce stress and tension, make people fitter, run for the train... and generally more able to endure more of life's problems, and, also have a transformative potential related to the twins of transglobal yoga's popularity: 1) accumulate power(s) and 2) achieve moral reformation.?
All the best,

?????????????
Patrick McCartney, PhDResearch Affiliate - Organization for Identity and Cultural Development (OICD), Kyoto
Research Associate - Nanzan University Anthropological Institute, Nagoya, JapanVisiting Fellow - South and South-east Asian Studies Department,?Australian National UniversityMember - South Asia Research Institute (SARI), Australian National University
Skype / Zoom - psdmccartneyPhone + Whatsapp + Line: ?+61410644259Twitter - @psdmccartney @yogascapesinjap
?Yogascapes in Japan?Academia?Linkedin?Modern Yoga Research
bodhap?rvam calema ;-)

?



   
   - 







_______________________________________________
INDOLOGY mailing list
INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee)
http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe)
  


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From pf8 at soas.ac.uk  Thu Mar 26 12:03:10 2020
From: pf8 at soas.ac.uk (Peter Flugel)
Date: Thu, 26 Mar 20 12:03:10 +0000
Subject: [INDOLOGY] International Journal of Jaina Studies Vol. 16, Nos. 1-3
Message-ID: <CAF+JJrm9d=FNmS+YdJMkb+L1u7fdE2gCpWo3-xqd6VtLdiicfA@mail.gmail.com>

Disentangling Poetry from Profit in Jain Monks? Literary Works

Author: Aleksandra Restifo

Year: 2020

ISSN: 1748-1074

International Journal of Jaina Studies (Online) Vol. 16, No. 1 (2020) 1-9
Abstract

Greed (lobha) is one of the four passions (ka??ya) that are the primary
causes for the soul?s bondage by karmic matter. Medieval Jain literature is
brimful with stories and accounts where greed is condemned and ridiculed.
This article looks at some of these literary instances, in which court
poets attempt to uncouple the production of poetry from the monetary reward
of a patron. It focuses on the three Jain authors - B?lacandra (thirteenth
century), Hemacandra (1089-1172), and R?macandra (1093-1174) - who, I
argue, set themselves apart from some other non-Jain poets, who engaged in
what they implied was the foul practice of writing poetry for personal
enrichment. While these monks, as well as Jains more generally, valorized
wealth and riches for the purpose of spreading the Jain dharma, building
temples, and worshipping the Jina, they denounced the reduction of the
poetic skill to the fiscal benefits it can produce.

Download File (pdf; 74kb) <https://www.soas.ac.uk/ijjs/file146288.pdf>
[image: Adobe PDF File Icon] <https://www.soas.ac.uk/ijjs/file146855.pdf>The
Gold of Gods: Stories of Temple Financing from Jain Prabandhas

Author: Basile Lecl?re

Year: 2020

ISSN: 1748-1074

International Journal of Jaina Studies (Online) Vol. 16, No. 2 (2020) 1-25
Abstract

Since they are intended to recall to their audience the pious actions of
illustrious members of the Jain community from a more or less remote past,
the medieval Prabandhas devote an important space to the activity of temple
building as it is probably one of the most expensive donations that could
be made to the community. Thus, biographies of prominent ?vet?mbara laymen
such as the Caulukya king Kum?rap?la or the ministers Vastup?la and
Teja?p?la include lists of religious edifices erected or renovated at their
behest. As regards the sums spent on these constructions, however, it
appears that they have not received the same attention from the authors.
While there is only sparse information about funding issues in the
chronicles dating back to the fourteenth century, later sources from the
fifteenth century record precise amounts of money as well as other details
unknown otherwise. Moreover, none of them clearly states where the money
exactly came from. It might be assumed that laymen financed religious
foundations with their personal wealth, but positive evidence is lacking to
prove it. On the contrary, it is said in several stories of temple
construction that the funds were miraculously obtained through the
intercession of a deity. What can account for this supernatural motif seems
to be the need of a divine sanction for the Jain sanctuaries dealt with,
either because they rose to prominence at a comparatively late date or
because they were located at a site claimed by other creeds. Another
motivation would be to extoll the merit of the human founders of the
temples inasmuch as the deities choose them on account of their good
fortune and pious conduct.

Download File (pdf; 214kb) <https://www.soas.ac.uk/ijjs/file146855.pdf>
[image: Adobe PDF File Icon]
<https://www.soas.ac.uk/ijjs/file146875.pdf>Salvaging
the Plagiarist: Digambara Jain Text Production in Early Modernity

Author: Gregory M. Clines

Year: 2020

ISSN: 1748-1074

International Journal of Jaina Studies (Online) Vol. 16, No. 3 (2020) 1-23
Abstract

In 1991 Padmanabh S. Jaini published an article highlighting the similarity
between two early modern Sanskrit P???avapur??as, the first by the
M?lasa?gha author ?ubhacandra and the second, composed about fifty years
later, by the K???h?sa?gha author ?r?bh??a?a. Jaini demonstrates that
?r?bh??a?a must have copied his sectarian rival?s earlier work and
subsequently labels ?r?bh??a?a a plagiarist. While not contesting the fact
that ?r?bh??a?a copied ?ubhacandra, the goal of this article is to
reconsider the specific label of plagiarist levelled against the
K???h?sa?gha author. By examining the history of both premodern South Asian
and contemporary western definitions of plagiarism and by introducing
another example of Digambara Jain textual copying during the early modern
period, the article argues that labelling ?r?bh??a?a a plagiarist
inappropriately reads back modern ideas of personal intellectual property
onto a premodern literary landscape in which textual copying was, in
actuality, a valid form of intersectarian argumentation.

Download File (pdf; 177kb) <https://www.soas.ac.uk/ijjs/file146875.pdf>


Dr Peter Fl?gel
Chair, Centre of Jaina Studies
Professor of the Study of Religions and Philosophies
Department of History, Religions and Philosophies
School of Oriental and African Studies
University of London
Thornhaugh Street
Russell Square
London WC1H OXG

Tel.: (+44-20) 7898 4776
E-mail: pf8 at soas.ac.uk
http://www.soas.ac.uk/jainastudies


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From christoph.emmrich at utoronto.ca  Thu Mar 26 14:03:49 2020
From: christoph.emmrich at utoronto.ca (Christoph Emmrich)
Date: Thu, 26 Mar 20 14:03:49 +0000
Subject: [INDOLOGY] The study of Sanskrit as the epitome of uselessness
Message-ID: <YTXPR0101MB199996032CEA76B2ACDF1F81EBCF0@YTXPR0101MB1999.CANPRD01.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>

MARCELLO   Steiner! Che fa qui?

STEINER   E tu? Io sono di casa... Padre Franz mi ha dato un libro...


E mentre mostra un libro che ha sotto il braccio, accenna anche al giovane e piccolo prete, che ? rimasto dove stava e segue la scena sorridendo lievemente.


STEINER   ...che avevo cercato per tutta Roma. Una grammatica sanscrita.


E Steiner ride, come di uno scherzo.


>From the script of La dolce vita (Italy, 1960), in: Federico Fellini, Ennio Flaiano e Tullio Pinelli. Quattro film. I vitelloni. La dolce vita. Otto e mezzo. Giulietta degli spiriti. Torino: Einaudi, 1975, p. 188.


[MARCELLO   Steiner! What are you doing here?

STEINER   What about you? I am at home here... Father Franz gave me a book...

And, while displaying a book he is holding under his arm, he also points at the young and short priest who has remained where he was and who has been observing the scene with a faint smile.

STEINER   ...which I had been looking for all across Rome. A Sanskrit grammar.

And Steiner laughs, as if about a joke.]


With warm regards,
Christoph


----



Christoph Emmrich

Associate Professor, Buddhist Studies
General Secretary, IABS

Director, Centre for South Asian Studies

at the Asian Institute, Munk School of Global Affairs and Public Policy

Chair, Numata Program UofT/McMaster

University of Toronto




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From mmdesh at umich.edu  Thu Mar 26 14:23:12 2020
From: mmdesh at umich.edu (Madhav Deshpande)
Date: Thu, 26 Mar 20 07:23:12 -0700
Subject: [INDOLOGY] A distraction from the Coronavirus
Message-ID: <CAB3-dzdcTUrHNZ7OpjLBwTw3Qxa_u0nU7De5GBmBjW2eNt71LA@mail.gmail.com>

Draupadi says to Arjuna -

??????? ?? ??????? ??????? ????? ? ???????: ?
????????????????????? ????????? ??????? ??

O Arjuna, don?t shoot the fish [with your arrow, to prove that you are the
best archer], since the ceremony of choosing the groom will not be
happening. After the Coronavirus goes away, please come back quickly.

Madhav M. Deshpande
Professor Emeritus, Sanskrit and Linguistics
University of Michigan, Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA
Senior Fellow, Oxford Center for Hindu Studies

[Residence: Campbell, California, USA]


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From arfalques at cantab.net  Thu Mar 26 17:59:55 2020
From: arfalques at cantab.net (=?utf-8?Q?Aleix_Ruiz_Falqu=C3=A9s?=)
Date: Thu, 26 Mar 20 18:59:55 +0100
Subject: [INDOLOGY] The study of Sanskrit as the epitome of uselessness
In-Reply-To: <YTXPR0101MB199996032CEA76B2ACDF1F81EBCF0@YTXPR0101MB1999.CANPRD01.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
Message-ID: <CAOCtTAs7O80S2nJ5UBQLn=AAXLsWOKwTO0ujBhLZxujrkZ_6eA@mail.gmail.com>

This excellent thread reminded me of a passage from *Hundred Years of
Solitude*. This is from M. Wood, *Gabriel Garc?a M?rquez: One Hundred Years
of Solitude*, (CUP 1990).

[image: image.png]

Best wishes,
Aleix

On Thu, 26 Mar 2020 at 15:03, Christoph Emmrich via INDOLOGY <
indology at list.indology.info> wrote:

> MARCELLO   Steiner! Che fa qui?
>
> STEINER   E tu? Io sono di casa... Padre Franz mi ha dato un libro...
>
>
> E mentre mostra un libro che ha sotto il braccio, accenna anche al giovane
> e piccolo prete, che ? rimasto dove stava e segue la scena sorridendo
> lievemente.
>
>
> STEINER   ...che avevo cercato per tutta Roma. Una grammatica sanscrita.
>
>
> E Steiner ride, come di uno scherzo.
>
>
> From the script of *La dolce vita* (Italy, 1960), in: Federico Fellini,
> Ennio Flaiano e Tullio Pinelli. *Quattro film. I vitelloni. La dolce
> vita. Otto e mezzo. Giulietta degli spiriti**. *Torino: Einaudi, 1975, p.
> 188.
>
>
> [MARCELLO   Steiner! What are you doing here?
>
> STEINER   What about you? I am at home here... Father Franz gave me a
> book...
>
> And, while displaying a book he is holding under his arm, he also points
> at the young and short priest who has remained where he was and who has
> been observing the scene with a faint smile.
>
> STEINER   ...which I had been looking for all across Rome. A Sanskrit
> grammar.
>
> And Steiner laughs, as if about a joke.]
>
> With warm regards,
> Christoph
>
>
> ----
>
>
>
> Christoph Emmrich
>
> Associate Professor, Buddhist Studies
> General Secretary, IABS
>
> Director, Centre for South Asian Studies
>
> at the Asian Institute, Munk School of Global Affairs and Public Policy
>
> Chair, Numata Program UofT/McMaster
>
> University of Toronto
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
> committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
> unsubscribe)
>


-- 
Aleix Ruiz-Falqu?s
Pali Lecturer
Head of the Department of Pali and Languages
Shan State Buddhist University
Phaya Phyu, Taunggyi, Myanmar 140101
(+95) 09428757648


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From christian.ferstl at univie.ac.at  Thu Mar 26 19:30:32 2020
From: christian.ferstl at univie.ac.at (Christian Ferstl)
Date: Thu, 26 Mar 20 20:30:32 +0100
Subject: [INDOLOGY] A distraction from the Coronavirus
In-Reply-To: <CAB3-dzdcTUrHNZ7OpjLBwTw3Qxa_u0nU7De5GBmBjW2eNt71LA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <e96f4241095f31dfc60604ceb61836ef@univie.ac.at>


And Arjuna says to Draupadi --

??? ? ???????? ?????? ?? ???????? ???? ?
??????????????? ??? ???????? ???????? ?

Today my hand must not touch your lotus-like hand.
That demon called Corona must be killed by the God of Love!

It seems I'm kind of infected by Prof. Deshpande's karona-k?vya virus.

Christian Ferstl
University of Vienna


Am 26.03.2020 15:23, schrieb Madhav Deshpande via INDOLOGY:
> Draupadi says to Arjuna -
> 
> ??????? ?? ???????
> ??????? ????? ? ???????: ?
> 
> ?????????????????????
> ????????? ??????? ??
> 
> O Arjuna, don?t shoot the fish [with your arrow, to prove that you
> are the best archer], since the ceremony of choosing the groom will
> not be happening. After the Coronavirus goes away, please come back
> quickly.
> 
> Madhav M. Deshpande
> Professor Emeritus, Sanskrit and Linguistics
> University of Michigan, Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA
> Senior Fellow, Oxford Center for Hindu Studies
> 
> [Residence: Campbell, California, USA]
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing 
> committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options
> or unsubscribe)





From mmdesh at umich.edu  Thu Mar 26 19:59:29 2020
From: mmdesh at umich.edu (Madhav Deshpande)
Date: Thu, 26 Mar 20 12:59:29 -0700
Subject: [INDOLOGY] A distraction from the Coronavirus
In-Reply-To: <e96f4241095f31dfc60604ceb61836ef@univie.ac.at>
Message-ID: <CAB3-dzf8jKnAEiebdMKLaMgeE4QRNg5Lg9P3dkgM6op=C7iv=Q@mail.gmail.com>

???

Madhav M. Deshpande
Professor Emeritus, Sanskrit and Linguistics
University of Michigan, Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA
Senior Fellow, Oxford Center for Hindu Studies

[Residence: Campbell, California, USA]


On Thu, Mar 26, 2020 at 12:30 PM Christian Ferstl <
christian.ferstl at univie.ac.at> wrote:

>
> And Arjuna says to Draupadi --
>
> ??? ? ???????? ?????? ?? ???????? ???? ?
> ??????????????? ??? ???????? ???????? ?
>
> Today my hand must not touch your lotus-like hand.
> That demon called Corona must be killed by the God of Love!
>
> It seems I'm kind of infected by Prof. Deshpande's karona-k?vya virus.
>
> Christian Ferstl
> University of Vienna
>
>
> Am 26.03.2020 15:23, schrieb Madhav Deshpande via INDOLOGY:
> > Draupadi says to Arjuna -
> >
> > ??????? ?? ???????
> > ??????? ????? ? ???????: ?
> >
> > ?????????????????????
> > ????????? ??????? ??
> >
> > O Arjuna, don?t shoot the fish [with your arrow, to prove that you
> > are the best archer], since the ceremony of choosing the groom will
> > not be happening. After the Coronavirus goes away, please come back
> > quickly.
> >
> > Madhav M. Deshpande
> > Professor Emeritus, Sanskrit and Linguistics
> > University of Michigan, Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA
> > Senior Fellow, Oxford Center for Hindu Studies
> >
> > [Residence: Campbell, California, USA]
> > _______________________________________________
> > INDOLOGY mailing list
> > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
> > committee)
> > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options
> > or unsubscribe)
>


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From j.jurewicz at uw.edu.pl  Thu Mar 26 22:19:28 2020
From: j.jurewicz at uw.edu.pl (Joanna Jurewicz)
Date: Thu, 26 Mar 20 23:19:28 +0100
Subject: [INDOLOGY] A distraction from the Coronavirus
In-Reply-To: <CAB3-dzf8jKnAEiebdMKLaMgeE4QRNg5Lg9P3dkgM6op=C7iv=Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAAPrgbrS0x4VNdMaRGo8QZfm6A2=raamPDs+4_vccaMG+7vvgw@mail.gmail.com>

Madhav, Christian, you are great! Thank you!

---

Prof. dr hab. Joanna Jurewicz

Katedra Azji Po?udniowej /Chair of South Asia

Wydzia? Orientalistyczny / Faculty of Oriental Studies

Uniwersytet Warszawski /University of Warsaw

ul. Krakowskie Przedmie?cie 26/28

00-927 Warszawa , Poland

Department of Linguistics and Modern Languages

College of Human Sciences

UNISA

Pretoria, RSA

Member of Academia Europaea

https://uw.academia.edu/JoannaJurewicz


czw., 26 mar 2020 o 21:00 Madhav Deshpande via INDOLOGY <
indology at list.indology.info> napisa?(a):

> ???
>
> Madhav M. Deshpande
> Professor Emeritus, Sanskrit and Linguistics
> University of Michigan, Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA
> Senior Fellow, Oxford Center for Hindu Studies
>
> [Residence: Campbell, California, USA]
>
>
> On Thu, Mar 26, 2020 at 12:30 PM Christian Ferstl <
> christian.ferstl at univie.ac.at> wrote:
>
>>
>> And Arjuna says to Draupadi --
>>
>> ??? ? ???????? ?????? ?? ???????? ???? ?
>> ??????????????? ??? ???????? ???????? ?
>>
>> Today my hand must not touch your lotus-like hand.
>> That demon called Corona must be killed by the God of Love!
>>
>> It seems I'm kind of infected by Prof. Deshpande's karona-k?vya virus.
>>
>> Christian Ferstl
>> University of Vienna
>>
>>
>> Am 26.03.2020 15:23, schrieb Madhav Deshpande via INDOLOGY:
>> > Draupadi says to Arjuna -
>> >
>> > ??????? ?? ???????
>> > ??????? ????? ? ???????: ?
>> >
>> > ?????????????????????
>> > ????????? ??????? ??
>> >
>> > O Arjuna, don?t shoot the fish [with your arrow, to prove that you
>> > are the best archer], since the ceremony of choosing the groom will
>> > not be happening. After the Coronavirus goes away, please come back
>> > quickly.
>> >
>> > Madhav M. Deshpande
>> > Professor Emeritus, Sanskrit and Linguistics
>> > University of Michigan, Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA
>> > Senior Fellow, Oxford Center for Hindu Studies
>> >
>> > [Residence: Campbell, California, USA]
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > INDOLOGY mailing list
>> > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>> > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
>> > committee)
>> > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options
>> > or unsubscribe)
>>
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
> committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
> unsubscribe)
>


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From vjroebuck at btinternet.com  Thu Mar 26 22:21:27 2020
From: vjroebuck at btinternet.com (Valerie Roebuck)
Date: Thu, 26 Mar 20 22:21:27 +0000
Subject: [INDOLOGY] A distraction from the Coronavirus
In-Reply-To: <CAB3-dzf8jKnAEiebdMKLaMgeE4QRNg5Lg9P3dkgM6op=C7iv=Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <6DF31767-36A0-489E-8185-C5DB39B541AA@btinternet.com>

Dear talented colleagues

I am enjoying these topical verses so much. If only we had a miniaturist who could portray these scenes, perhaps with the hero and heroine wearing face masks!

Valerie Roebuck
Manchester, UK




> On 26 Mar 2020, at 19:59, Madhav Deshpande via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info> wrote:
> 
> ???
> 
> Madhav M. Deshpande
> Professor Emeritus, Sanskrit and Linguistics
> University of Michigan, Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA
> Senior Fellow, Oxford Center for Hindu Studies
> 
> [Residence: Campbell, California, USA]
> 
> 
> On Thu, Mar 26, 2020 at 12:30 PM Christian Ferstl <christian.ferstl at univie.ac.at <mailto:christian.ferstl at univie.ac.at>> wrote:
> 
> And Arjuna says to Draupadi --
> 
> ??? ? ???????? ?????? ?? ???????? ???? ?
> ??????????????? ??? ???????? ???????? ?
> 
> Today my hand must not touch your lotus-like hand.
> That demon called Corona must be killed by the God of Love!
> 
> It seems I'm kind of infected by Prof. Deshpande's karona-k?vya virus.
> 
> Christian Ferstl
> University of Vienna
> 
> 
> Am 26.03.2020 15:23, schrieb Madhav Deshpande via INDOLOGY:
> > Draupadi says to Arjuna -
> > 
> > ??????? ?? ???????
> > ??????? ????? ? ???????: ?
> > 
> > ?????????????????????
> > ????????? ??????? ??
> > 
> > O Arjuna, don?t shoot the fish [with your arrow, to prove that you
> > are the best archer], since the ceremony of choosing the groom will
> > not be happening. After the Coronavirus goes away, please come back
> > quickly.
> > 
> > Madhav M. Deshpande
> > Professor Emeritus, Sanskrit and Linguistics
> > University of Michigan, Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA
> > Senior Fellow, Oxford Center for Hindu Studies
> > 
> > [Residence: Campbell, California, USA]
> > _______________________________________________
> > INDOLOGY mailing list
> > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info <mailto:INDOLOGY at list.indology.info>
> > indology-owner at list.indology.info <mailto:indology-owner at list.indology.info> (messages to the list's managing 
> > committee)
> > http://listinfo.indology.info <http://listinfo.indology.info/> (where you can change your list options
> > or unsubscribe)
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe)



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From mmdesh at umich.edu  Thu Mar 26 22:21:48 2020
From: mmdesh at umich.edu (Madhav Deshpande)
Date: Thu, 26 Mar 20 15:21:48 -0700
Subject: [INDOLOGY] A distraction from the Coronavirus
In-Reply-To: <CAAPrgbrS0x4VNdMaRGo8QZfm6A2=raamPDs+4_vccaMG+7vvgw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAB3-dzfOmc6RUPCUEuqNEZTE2utY-ex6jKBW9H-sDeyu_0K1=Q@mail.gmail.com>

Thanks, Joana.  I am glad you are enjoying.  ??????????????????? ????
?????? ???????.

Madhav

Madhav M. Deshpande
Professor Emeritus, Sanskrit and Linguistics
University of Michigan, Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA
Senior Fellow, Oxford Center for Hindu Studies

[Residence: Campbell, California, USA]


On Thu, Mar 26, 2020 at 3:19 PM Joanna Jurewicz <j.jurewicz at uw.edu.pl>
wrote:

> Madhav, Christian, you are great! Thank you!
>
> ---
>
> Prof. dr hab. Joanna Jurewicz
>
> Katedra Azji Po?udniowej /Chair of South Asia
>
> Wydzia? Orientalistyczny / Faculty of Oriental Studies
>
> Uniwersytet Warszawski /University of Warsaw
>
> ul. Krakowskie Przedmie?cie 26/28
>
> 00-927 Warszawa , Poland
>
> Department of Linguistics and Modern Languages
>
> College of Human Sciences
>
> UNISA
>
> Pretoria, RSA
>
> Member of Academia Europaea
>
> https://uw.academia.edu/JoannaJurewicz
>
>
> czw., 26 mar 2020 o 21:00 Madhav Deshpande via INDOLOGY <
> indology at list.indology.info> napisa?(a):
>
>> ???
>>
>> Madhav M. Deshpande
>> Professor Emeritus, Sanskrit and Linguistics
>> University of Michigan, Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA
>> Senior Fellow, Oxford Center for Hindu Studies
>>
>> [Residence: Campbell, California, USA]
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Mar 26, 2020 at 12:30 PM Christian Ferstl <
>> christian.ferstl at univie.ac.at> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> And Arjuna says to Draupadi --
>>>
>>> ??? ? ???????? ?????? ?? ???????? ???? ?
>>> ??????????????? ??? ???????? ???????? ?
>>>
>>> Today my hand must not touch your lotus-like hand.
>>> That demon called Corona must be killed by the God of Love!
>>>
>>> It seems I'm kind of infected by Prof. Deshpande's karona-k?vya virus.
>>>
>>> Christian Ferstl
>>> University of Vienna
>>>
>>>
>>> Am 26.03.2020 15:23, schrieb Madhav Deshpande via INDOLOGY:
>>> > Draupadi says to Arjuna -
>>> >
>>> > ??????? ?? ???????
>>> > ??????? ????? ? ???????: ?
>>> >
>>> > ?????????????????????
>>> > ????????? ??????? ??
>>> >
>>> > O Arjuna, don?t shoot the fish [with your arrow, to prove that you
>>> > are the best archer], since the ceremony of choosing the groom will
>>> > not be happening. After the Coronavirus goes away, please come back
>>> > quickly.
>>> >
>>> > Madhav M. Deshpande
>>> > Professor Emeritus, Sanskrit and Linguistics
>>> > University of Michigan, Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA
>>> > Senior Fellow, Oxford Center for Hindu Studies
>>> >
>>> > [Residence: Campbell, California, USA]
>>> > _______________________________________________
>>> > INDOLOGY mailing list
>>> > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>>> > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
>>> > committee)
>>> > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options
>>> > or unsubscribe)
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
>> committee)
>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
>> unsubscribe)
>>
>


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From nagarajpaturi at gmail.com  Fri Mar 27 01:52:27 2020
From: nagarajpaturi at gmail.com (Nagaraj Paturi)
Date: Fri, 27 Mar 20 07:22:27 +0530
Subject: [INDOLOGY] A distraction from the Coronavirus
In-Reply-To: <e96f4241095f31dfc60604ceb61836ef@univie.ac.at>
Message-ID: <CAJGj9eaZa9tR4UKZ5+ncZKbNBgxnKszmRyNSBzv5njS9y+zicQ@mail.gmail.com>

Good poetry, Christian-ji. 24 carrot gold.

On Fri, Mar 27, 2020 at 1:01 AM Christian Ferstl via INDOLOGY <
indology at list.indology.info> wrote:

>
> And Arjuna says to Draupadi --
>
> ??? ? ???????? ?????? ?? ???????? ???? ?
> ??????????????? ??? ???????? ???????? ?
>
> Today my hand must not touch your lotus-like hand.
> That demon called Corona must be killed by the God of Love!
>
> It seems I'm kind of infected by Prof. Deshpande's karona-k?vya virus.
>
> Christian Ferstl
> University of Vienna
>
>
> Am 26.03.2020 15:23, schrieb Madhav Deshpande via INDOLOGY:
> > Draupadi says to Arjuna -
> >
> > ??????? ?? ???????
> > ??????? ????? ? ???????: ?
> >
> > ?????????????????????
> > ????????? ??????? ??
> >
> > O Arjuna, don?t shoot the fish [with your arrow, to prove that you
> > are the best archer], since the ceremony of choosing the groom will
> > not be happening. After the Coronavirus goes away, please come back
> > quickly.
> >
> > Madhav M. Deshpande
> > Professor Emeritus, Sanskrit and Linguistics
> > University of Michigan, Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA
> > Senior Fellow, Oxford Center for Hindu Studies
> >
> > [Residence: Campbell, California, USA]
> > _______________________________________________
> > INDOLOGY mailing list
> > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
> > committee)
> > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options
> > or unsubscribe)
>
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
> committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
> unsubscribe)
>


-- 
Nagaraj Paturi

Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.


Director,  Inter-Gurukula-University Centre , Indic Academy
BoS, MIT School of Vedic Sciences, Pune, Maharashtra
BoS, Chinmaya Vishwavidyapeeth, Veliyanad, Kerala
BoS Veda Vijnana Gurukula, Bengaluru.
Member, Advisory Council, Veda Vijnana Shodha Samsthanam, Bengaluru
Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies,
FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of  Liberal Education,
Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.


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From walter.slaje at gmail.com  Fri Mar 27 07:02:52 2020
From: walter.slaje at gmail.com (Walter Slaje)
Date: Fri, 27 Mar 20 08:02:52 +0100
Subject: [INDOLOGY] A distraction from the Coronavirus
In-Reply-To: <CAJGj9eaZa9tR4UKZ5+ncZKbNBgxnKszmRyNSBzv5njS9y+zicQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CALoZ1nXNx4b1eb_0tM+SBvT6CxUqvJgNSOqUyKnz1DxtW2HWZA@mail.gmail.com>

> 24 carrot gold

While everyone will show understanding and keep politely silent if someone
makes minor mistakes in his first attempts at composing Sanskrit verses, it
is difficult to understand why a director in the Indic Academy and renowned
expert in Sanskrit matters would rate a verse containing *spar?atu *with
24-carat gold - if ?carrot? was not intended to express clandestine sarcasm.
With how many carrots would he have scored, let?s say, *sp??atu*?

Regards,
WS


Am Fr., 27. M?rz 2020 um 02:53 Uhr schrieb Nagaraj Paturi via INDOLOGY <
indology at list.indology.info>:

> Good poetry, Christian-ji. 24 carrot gold.
>
> On Fri, Mar 27, 2020 at 1:01 AM Christian Ferstl via INDOLOGY <
> indology at list.indology.info> wrote:
>
>>
>> And Arjuna says to Draupadi --
>>
>> ??? ? ???????? ?????? ?? ???????? ???? ?
>> ??????????????? ??? ???????? ???????? ?
>>
>> Today my hand must not touch your lotus-like hand.
>> That demon called Corona must be killed by the God of Love!
>>
>> It seems I'm kind of infected by Prof. Deshpande's karona-k?vya virus.
>>
>> Christian Ferstl
>> University of Vienna
>>
>>
>> Am 26.03.2020 15:23, schrieb Madhav Deshpande via INDOLOGY:
>> > Draupadi says to Arjuna -
>> >
>> > ??????? ?? ???????
>> > ??????? ????? ? ???????: ?
>> >
>> > ?????????????????????
>> > ????????? ??????? ??
>> >
>> > O Arjuna, don?t shoot the fish [with your arrow, to prove that you
>> > are the best archer], since the ceremony of choosing the groom will
>> > not be happening. After the Coronavirus goes away, please come back
>> > quickly.
>> >
>> > Madhav M. Deshpande
>> > Professor Emeritus, Sanskrit and Linguistics
>> > University of Michigan, Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA
>> > Senior Fellow, Oxford Center for Hindu Studies
>> >
>> > [Residence: Campbell, California, USA]
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > INDOLOGY mailing list
>> > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>> > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
>> > committee)
>> > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options
>> > or unsubscribe)
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
>> committee)
>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
>> unsubscribe)
>>
>
>
> --
> Nagaraj Paturi
>
> Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.
>
>
> Director,  Inter-Gurukula-University Centre , Indic Academy
> BoS, MIT School of Vedic Sciences, Pune, Maharashtra
> BoS, Chinmaya Vishwavidyapeeth, Veliyanad, Kerala
> BoS Veda Vijnana Gurukula, Bengaluru.
> Member, Advisory Council, Veda Vijnana Shodha Samsthanam, Bengaluru
> Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies,
> FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of  Liberal Education,
> Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
> committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
> unsubscribe)
>


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From christian.ferstl at univie.ac.at  Fri Mar 27 07:09:11 2020
From: christian.ferstl at univie.ac.at (Christian Ferstl)
Date: Fri, 27 Mar 20 08:09:11 +0100
Subject: [INDOLOGY] A distraction from the Coronavirus
In-Reply-To: <6DF31767-36A0-489E-8185-C5DB39B541AA@btinternet.com>
Message-ID: <4dbf7da1f3b56a6f00090bf19b491310@univie.ac.at>

Face masks would indeed be a problem at Damayant?'s svaya?vara:

????????? ??????? ?????????? ???????? ?
? ?????? ????? ????? ????????????????? ?

But the gods were the same to Damayant? anyway.

Best,
Christian Ferstl
University of Vienna


Am 26.03.2020 23:21, schrieb Valerie Roebuck:
> Dear talented colleagues
> 
> I am enjoying these topical verses so much. If only we had a
> miniaturist who could portray these scenes, perhaps with the hero and
> heroine wearing face masks!
> 
> Valerie Roebuck
> Manchester, UK
> 
>> On 26 Mar 2020, at 19:59, Madhav Deshpande via INDOLOGY
>> <indology at list.indology.info> wrote:
>> 
>> ???
>> 
>> Madhav M. Deshpande
>> Professor Emeritus, Sanskrit and Linguistics
>> University of Michigan, Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA
>> Senior Fellow, Oxford Center for Hindu Studies
>> 
>> [Residence: Campbell, California, USA]
>> 
>> On Thu, Mar 26, 2020 at 12:30 PM Christian Ferstl
>> <christian.ferstl at univie.ac.at> wrote:
>> 
>>> And Arjuna says to Draupadi --
>>> 
>>> ??? ? ???????? ?????? ??
>>> ???????? ???? ?
>>> ??????????????? ???
>>> ???????? ???????? ?
>>> 
>>> Today my hand must not touch your lotus-like hand.
>>> That demon called Corona must be killed by the God of Love!
>>> 
>>> It seems I'm kind of infected by Prof. Deshpande's karona-k?vya
>>> virus.
>>> 
>>> Christian Ferstl
>>> University of Vienna
>>> 
>>> Am 26.03.2020 15:23, schrieb Madhav Deshpande via INDOLOGY:
>>>> Draupadi says to Arjuna -
>>>> 
>>>> ??????? ?? ???????
>>>> ??????? ????? ? ???????:
>>> ?
>>>> 
>>>> ?????????????????????
>>>> ????????? ??????? ??
>>>> 
>>>> O Arjuna, don?t shoot the fish [with your arrow, to prove that
>>> you
>>>> are the best archer], since the ceremony of choosing the groom
>>> will
>>>> not be happening. After the Coronavirus goes away, please come
>>> back
>>>> quickly.
>>>> 
>>>> Madhav M. Deshpande
>>>> Professor Emeritus, Sanskrit and Linguistics
>>>> University of Michigan, Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA
>>>> Senior Fellow, Oxford Center for Hindu Studies
>>>> 
>>>> [Residence: Campbell, California, USA]
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>>>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>>>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's
>>> managing
>>>> committee)
>>>> http://listinfo.indology.info [1] (where you can change your
>>> list options
>>>> or unsubscribe)
>> _______________________________________________
>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
>> committee)
>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list
>> options or unsubscribe)
> 
> 
> 
> Links:
> ------
> [1] http://listinfo.indology.info/





From jhakgirish at gmail.com  Fri Mar 27 09:26:27 2020
From: jhakgirish at gmail.com (Girish Jha)
Date: Fri, 27 Mar 20 14:56:27 +0530
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Korona
Message-ID: <CAKdrZG1WHi+0cSW67VaUBja_EKjEqBpgt3wwiQ9NqM-tXbrcfA@mail.gmail.com>

???????? ????????,
??????????? ???? ??????? ?????? ????? ???
???????????????????????? ???????? ?? ??????? ?????
???????? ?????????s???????? ?????????
??? ???? ?????????? ?????????? ?????????
Girish K.JhA
Retd. University Professor
Dept. Of Sanskrit
Patna University
Current Residence: Kolkata


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From nagarajpaturi at gmail.com  Fri Mar 27 10:05:07 2020
From: nagarajpaturi at gmail.com (Nagaraj Paturi)
Date: Fri, 27 Mar 20 15:35:07 +0530
Subject: [INDOLOGY] A distraction from the Coronavirus
In-Reply-To: <CALoZ1nXNx4b1eb_0tM+SBvT6CxUqvJgNSOqUyKnz1DxtW2HWZA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAJGj9eb2tpXMtZF_59di1+m+91=OUztfQJoyfe4wbsoYaFB8MQ@mail.gmail.com>

Rasikataa measured poetic skills not grammar.

 Carrots were not awarded to grammatical aspects.



On Fri, Mar 27, 2020 at 12:33 PM Walter Slaje <walter.slaje at gmail.com>
wrote:

> > 24 carrot gold
>
> While everyone will show understanding and keep politely silent if someone
> makes minor mistakes in his first attempts at composing Sanskrit verses, it
> is difficult to understand why a director in the Indic Academy and renowned
> expert in Sanskrit matters would rate a verse containing *spar?atu *with
> 24-carat gold - if ?carrot? was not intended to express clandestine sarcasm.
> With how many carrots would he have scored, let?s say, *sp??atu*?
>
> Regards,
> WS
>
>
> Am Fr., 27. M?rz 2020 um 02:53 Uhr schrieb Nagaraj Paturi via INDOLOGY <
> indology at list.indology.info>:
>
>> Good poetry, Christian-ji. 24 carrot gold.
>>
>> On Fri, Mar 27, 2020 at 1:01 AM Christian Ferstl via INDOLOGY <
>> indology at list.indology.info> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> And Arjuna says to Draupadi --
>>>
>>> ??? ? ???????? ?????? ?? ???????? ???? ?
>>> ??????????????? ??? ???????? ???????? ?
>>>
>>> Today my hand must not touch your lotus-like hand.
>>> That demon called Corona must be killed by the God of Love!
>>>
>>> It seems I'm kind of infected by Prof. Deshpande's karona-k?vya virus.
>>>
>>> Christian Ferstl
>>> University of Vienna
>>>
>>>
>>> Am 26.03.2020 15:23, schrieb Madhav Deshpande via INDOLOGY:
>>> > Draupadi says to Arjuna -
>>> >
>>> > ??????? ?? ???????
>>> > ??????? ????? ? ???????: ?
>>> >
>>> > ?????????????????????
>>> > ????????? ??????? ??
>>> >
>>> > O Arjuna, don?t shoot the fish [with your arrow, to prove that you
>>> > are the best archer], since the ceremony of choosing the groom will
>>> > not be happening. After the Coronavirus goes away, please come back
>>> > quickly.
>>> >
>>> > Madhav M. Deshpande
>>> > Professor Emeritus, Sanskrit and Linguistics
>>> > University of Michigan, Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA
>>> > Senior Fellow, Oxford Center for Hindu Studies
>>> >
>>> > [Residence: Campbell, California, USA]
>>> > _______________________________________________
>>> > INDOLOGY mailing list
>>> > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>>> > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
>>> > committee)
>>> > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options
>>> > or unsubscribe)
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
>>> committee)
>>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options
>>> or unsubscribe)
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Nagaraj Paturi
>>
>> Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.
>>
>>
>> Director,  Inter-Gurukula-University Centre , Indic Academy
>> BoS, MIT School of Vedic Sciences, Pune, Maharashtra
>> BoS, Chinmaya Vishwavidyapeeth, Veliyanad, Kerala
>> BoS Veda Vijnana Gurukula, Bengaluru.
>> Member, Advisory Council, Veda Vijnana Shodha Samsthanam, Bengaluru
>> Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies,
>> FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of  Liberal Education,
>> Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
>> committee)
>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
>> unsubscribe)
>>
>

-- 
Nagaraj Paturi

Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.


Director,  Inter-Gurukula-University Centre , Indic Academy
BoS, MIT School of Vedic Sciences, Pune, Maharashtra
BoS, Chinmaya Vishwavidyapeeth, Veliyanad, Kerala
BoS Veda Vijnana Gurukula, Bengaluru.
Member, Advisory Council, Veda Vijnana Shodha Samsthanam, Bengaluru
Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies,
FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of  Liberal Education,
Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.


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From nagarajpaturi at gmail.com  Fri Mar 27 10:14:18 2020
From: nagarajpaturi at gmail.com (Nagaraj Paturi)
Date: Fri, 27 Mar 20 15:44:18 +0530
Subject: [INDOLOGY] A distraction from the Coronavirus
In-Reply-To: <CAB3-dzf8jKnAEiebdMKLaMgeE4QRNg5Lg9P3dkgM6op=C7iv=Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAJGj9ebd=8EMPToDkBNdq__Fr6+oLsLpvO7vo+dDp1gRpusdrg@mail.gmail.com>

How sarcastic that Prof. Deshpande's claps below don't look sarcastic in
spite of the speciality of the rasikakavyaachaarya being grammar.

On Fri, Mar 27, 2020 at 1:30 AM Madhav Deshpande via INDOLOGY <
indology at list.indology.info> wrote:

> ???
>
> Madhav M. Deshpande
> Professor Emeritus, Sanskrit and Linguistics
> University of Michigan, Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA
> Senior Fellow, Oxford Center for Hindu Studies
>
> [Residence: Campbell, California, USA]
>
>
> On Thu, Mar 26, 2020 at 12:30 PM Christian Ferstl <
> christian.ferstl at univie.ac.at> wrote:
>
>>
>> And Arjuna says to Draupadi --
>>
>> ??? ? ???????? ?????? ?? ???????? ???? ?
>> ??????????????? ??? ???????? ???????? ?
>>
>> Today my hand must not touch your lotus-like hand.
>> That demon called Corona must be killed by the God of Love!
>>
>> It seems I'm kind of infected by Prof. Deshpande's karona-k?vya virus.
>>
>> Christian Ferstl
>> University of Vienna
>>
>>
>> Am 26.03.2020 15:23, schrieb Madhav Deshpande via INDOLOGY:
>> > Draupadi says to Arjuna -
>> >
>> > ??????? ?? ???????
>> > ??????? ????? ? ???????: ?
>> >
>> > ?????????????????????
>> > ????????? ??????? ??
>> >
>> > O Arjuna, don?t shoot the fish [with your arrow, to prove that you
>> > are the best archer], since the ceremony of choosing the groom will
>> > not be happening. After the Coronavirus goes away, please come back
>> > quickly.
>> >
>> > Madhav M. Deshpande
>> > Professor Emeritus, Sanskrit and Linguistics
>> > University of Michigan, Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA
>> > Senior Fellow, Oxford Center for Hindu Studies
>> >
>> > [Residence: Campbell, California, USA]
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > INDOLOGY mailing list
>> > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>> > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
>> > committee)
>> > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options
>> > or unsubscribe)
>>
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
> committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
> unsubscribe)
>


-- 
Nagaraj Paturi

Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.


Director,  Inter-Gurukula-University Centre , Indic Academy
BoS, MIT School of Vedic Sciences, Pune, Maharashtra
BoS, Chinmaya Vishwavidyapeeth, Veliyanad, Kerala
BoS Veda Vijnana Gurukula, Bengaluru.
Member, Advisory Council, Veda Vijnana Shodha Samsthanam, Bengaluru
Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies,
FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of  Liberal Education,
Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.


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From walter.slaje at gmail.com  Fri Mar 27 10:59:04 2020
From: walter.slaje at gmail.com (Walter Slaje)
Date: Fri, 27 Mar 20 11:59:04 +0100
Subject: [INDOLOGY] A distraction from the Coronavirus
In-Reply-To: <CAJGj9ebd=8EMPToDkBNdq__Fr6+oLsLpvO7vo+dDp1gRpusdrg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CALoZ1nUdVodzO1gMEz3=Uuwtq1fYEXGBKnqHuy8_0junMRTvuQ@mail.gmail.com>

As you can see, Prof. Deshpande only clapped three times, one clapping hand
for each correct P?da. He used the dhvani of the missing hand to mark the
first p?da gentlemanly as incorrect.

In contrast, 24 carrots were awarded for the full number of 4 P?das, six
carrots each, although the quality is clearly unequally distributed over
the p?das. The assessment was therefore inadequate. Adequate would have
been 18 carrots at best, which is easy to understand if you subtract 6 of
your carrots for the failed P?da a.

Leaving aside that we have just learned that correct grammar plays no
significant role in assessing Sanskrit poetry, and, obviously, it never
has. Just look at the language of the ancient kavis. Wherever you look, no
trace of grammar.

WS


Am Fr., 27. M?rz 2020 um 11:15 Uhr schrieb Nagaraj Paturi via INDOLOGY <
indology at list.indology.info>:

> How sarcastic that Prof. Deshpande's claps below don't look sarcastic in
> spite of the speciality of the rasikakavyaachaarya being grammar.
>
> On Fri, Mar 27, 2020 at 1:30 AM Madhav Deshpande via INDOLOGY <
> indology at list.indology.info> wrote:
>
>> ???
>>
>> Madhav M. Deshpande
>> Professor Emeritus, Sanskrit and Linguistics
>> University of Michigan, Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA
>> Senior Fellow, Oxford Center for Hindu Studies
>>
>> [Residence: Campbell, California, USA]
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Mar 26, 2020 at 12:30 PM Christian Ferstl <
>> christian.ferstl at univie.ac.at> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> And Arjuna says to Draupadi --
>>>
>>> ??? ? ???????? ?????? ?? ???????? ???? ?
>>> ??????????????? ??? ???????? ???????? ?
>>>
>>> Today my hand must not touch your lotus-like hand.
>>> That demon called Corona must be killed by the God of Love!
>>>
>>> It seems I'm kind of infected by Prof. Deshpande's karona-k?vya virus.
>>>
>>> Christian Ferstl
>>> University of Vienna
>>>
>>>
>>> Am 26.03.2020 15:23, schrieb Madhav Deshpande via INDOLOGY:
>>> > Draupadi says to Arjuna -
>>> >
>>> > ??????? ?? ???????
>>> > ??????? ????? ? ???????: ?
>>> >
>>> > ?????????????????????
>>> > ????????? ??????? ??
>>> >
>>> > O Arjuna, don?t shoot the fish [with your arrow, to prove that you
>>> > are the best archer], since the ceremony of choosing the groom will
>>> > not be happening. After the Coronavirus goes away, please come back
>>> > quickly.
>>> >
>>> > Madhav M. Deshpande
>>> > Professor Emeritus, Sanskrit and Linguistics
>>> > University of Michigan, Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA
>>> > Senior Fellow, Oxford Center for Hindu Studies
>>> >
>>> > [Residence: Campbell, California, USA]
>>> > _______________________________________________
>>> > INDOLOGY mailing list
>>> > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>>> > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
>>> > committee)
>>> > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options
>>> > or unsubscribe)
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
>> committee)
>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
>> unsubscribe)
>>
>
>
> --
> Nagaraj Paturi
>
> Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.
>
>
> Director,  Inter-Gurukula-University Centre , Indic Academy
> BoS, MIT School of Vedic Sciences, Pune, Maharashtra
> BoS, Chinmaya Vishwavidyapeeth, Veliyanad, Kerala
> BoS Veda Vijnana Gurukula, Bengaluru.
> Member, Advisory Council, Veda Vijnana Shodha Samsthanam, Bengaluru
> Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies,
> FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of  Liberal Education,
> Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
> committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
> unsubscribe)
>


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From nagarajpaturi at gmail.com  Fri Mar 27 12:35:02 2020
From: nagarajpaturi at gmail.com (Nagaraj Paturi)
Date: Fri, 27 Mar 20 18:05:02 +0530
Subject: [INDOLOGY] A distraction from the Coronavirus
In-Reply-To: <CALoZ1nUdVodzO1gMEz3=Uuwtq1fYEXGBKnqHuy8_0junMRTvuQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAJGj9ebR51wtsQCqxpX1C3PAd_3gObQYXjEpNnmKm3z=Efd0rg@mail.gmail.com>

Measuring number of claps, correlating with the number of pandas, what is
all this ? If you are sincere in encouraging ' his first attempts at
composing Sanskrit verses  ' ( I didn't know any such details about the
poet ) do not drag this twisted discussion beyond this point. Please help
the poet through some constructive criticism from your side, without
involving comments of others made with good intentions.

Sorry, Dr (?) Christian Ferstl for engaging with such unwarranted
discussion. I am sure you will understand my true appreciation of your
poetic skills.

On Fri, Mar 27, 2020 at 4:29 PM Walter Slaje <walter.slaje at gmail.com> wrote:

> As you can see, Prof. Deshpande only clapped three times, one clapping
> hand for each correct P?da. He used the dhvani of the missing hand to mark
> the first p?da gentlemanly as incorrect.
>
> In contrast, 24 carrots were awarded for the full number of 4 P?das, six
> carrots each, although the quality is clearly unequally distributed over
> the p?das. The assessment was therefore inadequate. Adequate would have
> been 18 carrots at best, which is easy to understand if you subtract 6 of
> your carrots for the failed P?da a.
>
> Leaving aside that we have just learned that correct grammar plays no
> significant role in assessing Sanskrit poetry, and, obviously, it never
> has. Just look at the language of the ancient kavis. Wherever you look, no
> trace of grammar.
>
> WS
>
>
> Am Fr., 27. M?rz 2020 um 11:15 Uhr schrieb Nagaraj Paturi via INDOLOGY <
> indology at list.indology.info>:
>
>> How sarcastic that Prof. Deshpande's claps below don't look sarcastic in
>> spite of the speciality of the rasikakavyaachaarya being grammar.
>>
>> On Fri, Mar 27, 2020 at 1:30 AM Madhav Deshpande via INDOLOGY <
>> indology at list.indology.info> wrote:
>>
>>> ???
>>>
>>> Madhav M. Deshpande
>>> Professor Emeritus, Sanskrit and Linguistics
>>> University of Michigan, Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA
>>> Senior Fellow, Oxford Center for Hindu Studies
>>>
>>> [Residence: Campbell, California, USA]
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, Mar 26, 2020 at 12:30 PM Christian Ferstl <
>>> christian.ferstl at univie.ac.at> wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> And Arjuna says to Draupadi --
>>>>
>>>> ??? ? ???????? ?????? ?? ???????? ???? ?
>>>> ??????????????? ??? ???????? ???????? ?
>>>>
>>>> Today my hand must not touch your lotus-like hand.
>>>> That demon called Corona must be killed by the God of Love!
>>>>
>>>> It seems I'm kind of infected by Prof. Deshpande's karona-k?vya virus.
>>>>
>>>> Christian Ferstl
>>>> University of Vienna
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Am 26.03.2020 15:23, schrieb Madhav Deshpande via INDOLOGY:
>>>> > Draupadi says to Arjuna -
>>>> >
>>>> > ??????? ?? ???????
>>>> > ??????? ????? ? ???????: ?
>>>> >
>>>> > ?????????????????????
>>>> > ????????? ??????? ??
>>>> >
>>>> > O Arjuna, don?t shoot the fish [with your arrow, to prove that you
>>>> > are the best archer], since the ceremony of choosing the groom will
>>>> > not be happening. After the Coronavirus goes away, please come back
>>>> > quickly.
>>>> >
>>>> > Madhav M. Deshpande
>>>> > Professor Emeritus, Sanskrit and Linguistics
>>>> > University of Michigan, Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA
>>>> > Senior Fellow, Oxford Center for Hindu Studies
>>>> >
>>>> > [Residence: Campbell, California, USA]
>>>> > _______________________________________________
>>>> > INDOLOGY mailing list
>>>> > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>>>> > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
>>>> > committee)
>>>> > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options
>>>> > or unsubscribe)
>>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
>>> committee)
>>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options
>>> or unsubscribe)
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Nagaraj Paturi
>>
>> Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.
>>
>>
>> Director,  Inter-Gurukula-University Centre , Indic Academy
>> BoS, MIT School of Vedic Sciences, Pune, Maharashtra
>> BoS, Chinmaya Vishwavidyapeeth, Veliyanad, Kerala
>> BoS Veda Vijnana Gurukula, Bengaluru.
>> Member, Advisory Council, Veda Vijnana Shodha Samsthanam, Bengaluru
>> Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies,
>> FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of  Liberal Education,
>> Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
>> committee)
>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
>> unsubscribe)
>>
>

-- 
Nagaraj Paturi

Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.


Director,  Inter-Gurukula-University Centre , Indic Academy
BoS, MIT School of Vedic Sciences, Pune, Maharashtra
BoS, Chinmaya Vishwavidyapeeth, Veliyanad, Kerala
BoS Veda Vijnana Gurukula, Bengaluru.
Member, Advisory Council, Veda Vijnana Shodha Samsthanam, Bengaluru
Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies,
FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of  Liberal Education,
Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.


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From mmdesh at umich.edu  Fri Mar 27 13:22:40 2020
From: mmdesh at umich.edu (Madhav Deshpande)
Date: Fri, 27 Mar 20 06:22:40 -0700
Subject: [INDOLOGY] A distraction from the Coronavirus
Message-ID: <CAB3-dzfHu_9wZ6B-nnm0rO5L3AQOoQueLMpFM0eDxZOfSjX_eg@mail.gmail.com>

A distraction from the Coronavirus

??????? ????? ???? ??? ????? ? ???????: ?
????????????????????? ????????? ???? ??

O Rama, don?t touch that bow of Shiva, since the ceremony of choosing the
groom will not be happening. After the Coronavirus goes away, do come back.

Madhav M. Deshpande
Professor Emeritus, Sanskrit and Linguistics
University of Michigan, Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA
Senior Fellow, Oxford Center for Hindu Studies

[Residence: Campbell, California, USA]


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From jemhouben at gmail.com  Fri Mar 27 15:55:51 2020
From: jemhouben at gmail.com (Jan E.M. Houben)
Date: Fri, 27 Mar 20 16:55:51 +0100
Subject: [INDOLOGY] (still) no distraction from the coronavirus...
Message-ID: <CAGCGLoBp_CL=X8BYYoLzjNv0Jfwa4jc-5b0q-xS6DBNTo2k=Ag@mail.gmail.com>

??????? ??????????????   ? ?????????? ? ? ????? ?
??????????????? ???????   ????? ??????????? ?

?????????????????? ?????   ??????????????????? ?
??? ????? ??????????   ??? ????? ????????? ? ?

????????????????????   ??????? ???? ?
??????????????? ?? ????   ????????????????? ?

Dear Madhav and Christian (and dear Walter),
As the impact on our daily lives is only growing, and as long as worldwide
the mortality curves are, although perhaps slowly flattening, not yet
really coming down, it is difficult to get distracted for long from the
"coronavirus"...
Your verses with epic and mythological references are fascinating even in
translation; since the ?lokas I have composed simply describe the current
situation and what people do and believe, I guess a translation will
neither be interesting nor required.
Incidentally, the first professor of Sanskrit in Europe (the continent
having a name which perhaps suggests it should have a "broad outlook", *urv?
prek??*), Antoine L?onard (de) Ch?zy (partly latinized name: Apud-y),
specifically appointed for the academic study and teaching of Sanskrit in
Paris in 1815, was also, or so it seems, the last one for whom Sanskrit was
not only an object of study but also a medium of scientific expression: in
his *Th?orie du Sloka*, Paris, 1827, he summarized his conclusion on
Sanskrit metrics in a Sanskrit verse which illustrated the theory he had
extracted from his large reading samples.
For the last few centuries, however, "expressive Sanskrit" and "functional
and communicative Sanskrit" constitute glaring lacunae in the occidental
Sanskrit teaching of interested students, even though a little training in
these domains can contribute significantly to a basic mastery of Sanskrit
and even to the critical study of "archival Sanskrit".
To conclude, for those who have not yet rushed away from my longish
message, I would therefore like to commemorate in a simple descriptive
sragdhar?, also by way of distraction away from the corona virus, this
forgotten pioneer, de Ch?zy, who passed away prematurely 188 years ago due
to the cholera pandemic in 1832:

?????????? ?????????????  ???????????  ?????? ???????????

????????????? ???????  ???????????????? ?????? ????????? ?? ?

???? ??????????????  ?????? ???????????? ???????????

  ??????????? ???? ?????? ? ??????  ?????- ??? ????????????-????? ?????? ?

Stay well,

N.B.
Dear Christian, Thanks for your verse with special qualities.
Apart from ??????? in the first p?da,
or else ?? ????????? but then you have to give up ? which you obviously
like to keep after ???, to harmonize with the current Hindi orthography
of ????? ,
I would suggest for the second line: ??????????????????  ???????? ????????
?
-- 

*Jan E.M. Houben*

Directeur d'?tudes, Professor of South Asian History and Philology

*Sources et histoire de la tradition sanskrite*

?cole Pratique des Hautes ?tudes (EPHE, Paris Sciences et Lettres)

*Sciences historiques et philologiques *

*johannes.houben [at] ephe.psl.eu <johannes.houben at ephe.psl.eu>*

*https://ephe-sorbonne.academia.edu/JanEMHouben
<https://ephe-sorbonne.academia.edu/JanEMHouben>*


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From mmdesh at umich.edu  Fri Mar 27 16:01:43 2020
From: mmdesh at umich.edu (Madhav Deshpande)
Date: Fri, 27 Mar 20 09:01:43 -0700
Subject: [INDOLOGY] (still) no distraction from the coronavirus...
In-Reply-To: <CAGCGLoBp_CL=X8BYYoLzjNv0Jfwa4jc-5b0q-xS6DBNTo2k=Ag@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAB3-dzcmB4baHDCSk1KV+PZNaMSL7MrJgkc2o2++konQBtdtbw@mail.gmail.com>

Dear Jan,

     Beautiful verses and an informative message.  My only correction to
your verses is ?????????? > ??????????.  With best wishes,

Madhav

Madhav M. Deshpande
Professor Emeritus, Sanskrit and Linguistics
University of Michigan, Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA
Senior Fellow, Oxford Center for Hindu Studies

[Residence: Campbell, California, USA]


On Fri, Mar 27, 2020 at 8:56 AM Jan E.M. Houben via INDOLOGY <
indology at list.indology.info> wrote:

> ??????? ??????????????   ? ?????????? ? ? ????? ?
> ??????????????? ???????   ????? ??????????? ?
>
> ?????????????????? ?????   ??????????????????? ?
> ??? ????? ??????????   ??? ????? ????????? ? ?
>
> ????????????????????   ??????? ???? ?
> ??????????????? ?? ????   ????????????????? ?
>
> Dear Madhav and Christian (and dear Walter),
> As the impact on our daily lives is only growing, and as long as worldwide
> the mortality curves are, although perhaps slowly flattening, not yet
> really coming down, it is difficult to get distracted for long from the
> "coronavirus"...
> Your verses with epic and mythological references are fascinating even in
> translation; since the ?lokas I have composed simply describe the current
> situation and what people do and believe, I guess a translation will
> neither be interesting nor required.
> Incidentally, the first professor of Sanskrit in Europe (the continent
> having a name which perhaps suggests it should have a "broad outlook", *urv?
> prek??*), Antoine L?onard (de) Ch?zy (partly latinized name: Apud-y),
> specifically appointed for the academic study and teaching of Sanskrit in
> Paris in 1815, was also, or so it seems, the last one for whom Sanskrit was
> not only an object of study but also a medium of scientific expression: in
> his *Th?orie du Sloka*, Paris, 1827, he summarized his conclusion on
> Sanskrit metrics in a Sanskrit verse which illustrated the theory he had
> extracted from his large reading samples.
> For the last few centuries, however, "expressive Sanskrit" and "functional
> and communicative Sanskrit" constitute glaring lacunae in the occidental
> Sanskrit teaching of interested students, even though a little training in
> these domains can contribute significantly to a basic mastery of Sanskrit
> and even to the critical study of "archival Sanskrit".
> To conclude, for those who have not yet rushed away from my longish
> message, I would therefore like to commemorate in a simple descriptive
> sragdhar?, also by way of distraction away from the corona virus, this
> forgotten pioneer, de Ch?zy, who passed away prematurely 188 years ago due
> to the cholera pandemic in 1832:
>
> ?????????? ?????????????  ???????????  ?????? ???????????
>
> ????????????? ???????  ???????????????? ?????? ????????? ?? ?
>
> ???? ??????????????  ?????? ???????????? ???????????
>
>   ??????????? ???? ?????? ? ??????  ?????- ??? ????????????-????? ?????? ?
>
> Stay well,
>
> N.B.
> Dear Christian, Thanks for your verse with special qualities.
> Apart from ??????? in the first p?da,
> or else ?? ????????? but then you have to give up ? which you obviously
> like to keep after ???, to harmonize with the current Hindi orthography
> of ????? ,
> I would suggest for the second line: ??????????????????  ???????? ????????
> ?
> --
>
> *Jan E.M. Houben*
>
> Directeur d'?tudes, Professor of South Asian History and Philology
>
> *Sources et histoire de la tradition sanskrite*
>
> ?cole Pratique des Hautes ?tudes (EPHE, Paris Sciences et Lettres)
>
> *Sciences historiques et philologiques *
>
> *johannes.houben [at] ephe.psl.eu <johannes.houben at ephe.psl.eu>*
>
> *https://ephe-sorbonne.academia.edu/JanEMHouben
> <https://ephe-sorbonne.academia.edu/JanEMHouben>*
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
> committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
> unsubscribe)
>


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From christian.ferstl at univie.ac.at  Fri Mar 27 16:39:57 2020
From: christian.ferstl at univie.ac.at (Christian Ferstl)
Date: Fri, 27 Mar 20 17:39:57 +0100
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Korona
In-Reply-To: <CAKdrZG1WHi+0cSW67VaUBja_EKjEqBpgt3wwiQ9NqM-tXbrcfA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <63594f5c68eb0f32c4216a40fd52baae@univie.ac.at>

Respected scholars,
poets and colleagues,

thanks for your criticism and appreciation of my rather amateurish 
?loka! Apparently I need more practice. So let me try again, expressing 
my hope that the ??????? ???????? are soon subdued:

?? ?????????? ?? ??????? ? ???????? ?
????????? ???? ???????? ????????? ?

Why raise useless crying, why raise violent weeping?
Rama, tamer of the Corona virus, will surely be victorious!


Christian Ferstl
University of Vienna

Am 27.03.2020 10:26, schrieb Girish Jha via INDOLOGY:
> ???????? ????????,
> ??????????? ???? ???????
> ?????? ????? ???
> ????????????????????????
> ???????? ?? ??????? ?????
> ????????
> ?????????s????????
> ?????????
> ??? ???? ??????????
> ?????????? ?????????
> Girish K.JhA
> Retd. University Professor
> Dept. Of Sanskrit
> Patna University
> Current Residence: Kolkata
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing 
> committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options
> or unsubscribe)





From mmdesh at umich.edu  Fri Mar 27 16:56:24 2020
From: mmdesh at umich.edu (Madhav Deshpande)
Date: Fri, 27 Mar 20 09:56:24 -0700
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Korona
In-Reply-To: <63594f5c68eb0f32c4216a40fd52baae@univie.ac.at>
Message-ID: <CAB3-dzcmqA14-x_3nWa0XP8rCHjarJTo48TBdKNxqdM-wEXbtA@mail.gmail.com>

??????? ?

Madhav M. Deshpande
Professor Emeritus, Sanskrit and Linguistics
University of Michigan, Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA
Senior Fellow, Oxford Center for Hindu Studies

[Residence: Campbell, California, USA]


On Fri, Mar 27, 2020 at 9:40 AM Christian Ferstl via INDOLOGY <
indology at list.indology.info> wrote:

> Respected scholars,
> poets and colleagues,
>
> thanks for your criticism and appreciation of my rather amateurish
> ?loka! Apparently I need more practice. So let me try again, expressing
> my hope that the ??????? ???????? are soon subdued:
>
> ?? ?????????? ?? ??????? ? ???????? ?
> ????????? ???? ???????? ????????? ?
>
> Why raise useless crying, why raise violent weeping?
> Rama, tamer of the Corona virus, will surely be victorious!
>
>
> Christian Ferstl
> University of Vienna
>
> Am 27.03.2020 10:26, schrieb Girish Jha via INDOLOGY:
> > ???????? ????????,
> > ??????????? ???? ???????
> > ?????? ????? ???
> > ????????????????????????
> > ???????? ?? ??????? ?????
> > ????????
> > ?????????s????????
> > ?????????
> > ??? ???? ??????????
> > ?????????? ?????????
> > Girish K.JhA
> > Retd. University Professor
> > Dept. Of Sanskrit
> > Patna University
> > Current Residence: Kolkata
> > _______________________________________________
> > INDOLOGY mailing list
> > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
> > committee)
> > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options
> > or unsubscribe)
>
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
> committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
> unsubscribe)
>


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From jemhouben at gmail.com  Fri Mar 27 17:31:20 2020
From: jemhouben at gmail.com (Jan E.M. Houben)
Date: Fri, 27 Mar 20 18:31:20 +0100
Subject: [INDOLOGY] (still) no distraction from the coronavirus...
In-Reply-To: <CAB3-dzcmB4baHDCSk1KV+PZNaMSL7MrJgkc2o2++konQBtdtbw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAGCGLoAU9PBYfwX9vyY5XnKmXqBKh7U8beUO7qBRmV0fw0uAXA@mail.gmail.com>

Dear Madhav, Thanks, and of course !

?????? ???????????  ????????? ???????? ?

?????? ?? ???????????   ????? ?????????? ?

Best, Jan


On Fri, 27 Mar 2020 at 17:02, Madhav Deshpande <mmdesh at umich.edu> wrote:

> Dear Jan,
>
>      Beautiful verses and an informative message.  My only correction to
> your verses is ?????????? > ??????????.  With best wishes,
>
> Madhav
>
> Madhav M. Deshpande
> Professor Emeritus, Sanskrit and Linguistics
> University of Michigan, Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA
> Senior Fellow, Oxford Center for Hindu Studies
>
> [Residence: Campbell, California, USA]
>
>
> On Fri, Mar 27, 2020 at 8:56 AM Jan E.M. Houben via INDOLOGY <
> indology at list.indology.info> wrote:
>
>> ??????? ??????????????   ? ?????????? ? ? ????? ?
>> ??????????????? ???????   ????? ??????????? ?
>>
>> ?????????????????? ?????   ??????????????????? ?
>> ??? ????? ??????????   ??? ????? ????????? ? ?
>>
>> ????????????????????   ??????? ???? ?
>> ??????????????? ?? ????   ????????????????? ?
>>
>> Dear Madhav and Christian (and dear Walter),
>> As the impact on our daily lives is only growing, and as long as
>> worldwide the mortality curves are, although perhaps slowly flattening, not
>> yet really coming down, it is difficult to get distracted for long from the
>> "coronavirus"...
>> Your verses with epic and mythological references are fascinating even in
>> translation; since the ?lokas I have composed simply describe the current
>> situation and what people do and believe, I guess a translation will
>> neither be interesting nor required.
>> Incidentally, the first professor of Sanskrit in Europe (the continent
>> having a name which perhaps suggests it should have a "broad outlook", *urv?
>> prek??*), Antoine L?onard (de) Ch?zy (partly latinized name: Apud-y),
>> specifically appointed for the academic study and teaching of Sanskrit in
>> Paris in 1815, was also, or so it seems, the last one for whom Sanskrit was
>> not only an object of study but also a medium of scientific expression: in
>> his *Th?orie du Sloka*, Paris, 1827, he summarized his conclusion on
>> Sanskrit metrics in a Sanskrit verse which illustrated the theory he had
>> extracted from his large reading samples.
>> For the last few centuries, however, "expressive Sanskrit" and
>> "functional and communicative Sanskrit" constitute glaring lacunae in the
>> occidental Sanskrit teaching of interested students, even though a little
>> training in these domains can contribute significantly to a basic mastery
>> of Sanskrit and even to the critical study of "archival Sanskrit".
>> To conclude, for those who have not yet rushed away from my longish
>> message, I would therefore like to commemorate in a simple descriptive
>> sragdhar?, also by way of distraction away from the corona virus, this
>> forgotten pioneer, de Ch?zy, who passed away prematurely 188 years ago due
>> to the cholera pandemic in 1832:
>>
>> ?????????? ?????????????  ???????????  ?????? ???????????
>>
>> ????????????? ???????  ???????????????? ?????? ????????? ?? ?
>>
>> ???? ??????????????  ?????? ???????????? ???????????
>>
>>   ??????????? ???? ?????? ? ??????  ?????- ??? ????????????-????? ??????
>> ?
>>
>> Stay well,
>>
>> N.B.
>> Dear Christian, Thanks for your verse with special qualities.
>> Apart from ??????? in the first p?da,
>> or else ?? ????????? but then you have to give up ? which you obviously
>> like to keep after ???, to harmonize with the current Hindi orthography
>> of ????? ,
>> I would suggest for the second line: ??????????????????  ????????
>> ???????? ?
>> --
>>
>> *Jan E.M. Houben*
>>
>> Directeur d'?tudes, Professor of South Asian History and Philology
>>
>> *Sources et histoire de la tradition sanskrite*
>>
>> ?cole Pratique des Hautes ?tudes (EPHE, Paris Sciences et Lettres)
>>
>> *Sciences historiques et philologiques *
>>
>> *johannes.houben [at] ephe.psl.eu <johannes.houben at ephe.psl.eu>*
>>
>> *https://ephe-sorbonne.academia.edu/JanEMHouben
>> <https://ephe-sorbonne.academia.edu/JanEMHouben>*
>> _______________________________________________
>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
>> committee)
>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
>> unsubscribe)
>>
>

-- 

*Jan E.M. Houben*

Directeur d'?tudes, Professor of South Asian History and Philology

*Sources et histoire de la tradition sanskrite*

?cole Pratique des Hautes ?tudes (EPHE, Paris Sciences et Lettres)

*Sciences historiques et philologiques *

*johannes.houben [at] ephe.psl.eu <johannes.houben at ephe.psl.eu>*

*https://ephe-sorbonne.academia.edu/JanEMHouben
<https://ephe-sorbonne.academia.edu/JanEMHouben>*


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From r.stuhrmann at t-online.de  Fri Mar 27 18:28:21 2020
From: r.stuhrmann at t-online.de (rainer stuhrmann)
Date: Fri, 27 Mar 20 19:28:21 +0100
Subject: [INDOLOGY] (still) no distraction from the coronavirus...
In-Reply-To: <CAGCGLoAU9PBYfwX9vyY5XnKmXqBKh7U8beUO7qBRmV0fw0uAXA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <81def2db-a0a6-8723-f8a9-a86060df5377@t-online.de>

"Practising Sanskrit as the Epitome of laughableness"

Cheers

Rainer





From jean-luc.chevillard at univ-paris-diderot.fr  Sat Mar 28 08:50:37 2020
From: jean-luc.chevillard at univ-paris-diderot.fr (Jean-Luc Chevillard)
Date: Sat, 28 Mar 20 09:50:37 +0100
Subject: [INDOLOGY] (still) no distraction from the coronavirus...
In-Reply-To: <81def2db-a0a6-8723-f8a9-a86060df5377@t-online.de>
Message-ID: <7adf623c-cd26-dea8-d5cd-4867f3ce9bd8@univ-paris-diderot.fr>

???????????? ????? ???? ????????
????? ???????? ????????? ???????? ?????
????? ????????????? ??? ???????????.

"/Avai-y-a?akku/ is, if well examined, one's modest expression to all to 
discriminate what is good in his unworthy sayings and take it"

  (1936 translation of Tolk?ppiyam Poru?atik?ram 419 by P.S. Subrahmanya 
Sastri, as read on p.180 in the 2002 reprint by the Kuppuswami Sastri 
Research Institute, Chennai)

-- Jean-Luc Chevillard (confined in M?ssen, Schleswig-Holstein)

https://twitter.com/JLC1956

https://tst.hypotheses.org/author/jlch

https://www.google.de/maps/@53.49484,10.57238,19z



On 27/03/2020 19:28, rainer stuhrmann via INDOLOGY wrote:
> "Practising Sanskrit as the Epitome of laughableness"
> 
> Cheers
> 
> Rainer
> 
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing 
> committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or 
> unsubscribe)






From vjroebuck at btinternet.com  Sat Mar 28 11:03:49 2020
From: vjroebuck at btinternet.com (Valerie Roebuck)
Date: Sat, 28 Mar 20 11:03:49 +0000
Subject: [INDOLOGY] A distraction from the Coronavirus
In-Reply-To: <CAJGj9ebR51wtsQCqxpX1C3PAd_3gObQYXjEpNnmKm3z=Efd0rg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <D3C0615D-052E-44FE-8ECF-9787594897EC@btinternet.com>

Dear Nagaraj

Thank you for saying this. I was on the point of attempting to burst forth into Sanskrit verse, but have now been scared off again.

Valerie J Roebuck
Manchester, UK


> On 27 Mar 2020, at 12:35, Nagaraj Paturi via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info> wrote:
> 
> Measuring number of claps, correlating with the number of pandas, what is all this ? If you are sincere in encouraging ' his first attempts at composing Sanskrit verses  ' ( I didn't know any such details about the poet ) do not drag this twisted discussion beyond this point. Please help the poet through some constructive criticism from your side, without involving comments of others made with good intentions. 
> 
> Sorry, Dr (?) Christian Ferstl for engaging with such unwarranted discussion. I am sure you will understand my true appreciation of your poetic skills. 
> 
> On Fri, Mar 27, 2020 at 4:29 PM Walter Slaje <walter.slaje at gmail.com <mailto:walter.slaje at gmail.com>> wrote:
> As you can see, Prof. Deshpande only clapped three times, one clapping hand for each correct P?da. He used the dhvani of the missing hand to mark the first p?da gentlemanly as incorrect.
> 
> In contrast, 24 carrots were awarded for the full number of 4 P?das, six carrots each, although the quality is clearly unequally distributed over the p?das. The assessment was therefore inadequate. Adequate would have been 18 carrots at best, which is easy to understand if you subtract 6 of your carrots for the failed P?da a.
> 
> Leaving aside that we have just learned that correct grammar plays no significant role in assessing Sanskrit poetry, and, obviously, it never has. Just look at the language of the ancient kavis. Wherever you look, no trace of grammar.
> 
> WS
> 
> 
> Am Fr., 27. M?rz 2020 um 11:15 Uhr schrieb Nagaraj Paturi via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info <mailto:indology at list.indology.info>>:
> How sarcastic that Prof. Deshpande's claps below don't look sarcastic in spite of the speciality of the rasikakavyaachaarya being grammar. 
> 
> On Fri, Mar 27, 2020 at 1:30 AM Madhav Deshpande via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info <mailto:indology at list.indology.info>> wrote:
> ???
> 
> Madhav M. Deshpande
> Professor Emeritus, Sanskrit and Linguistics
> University of Michigan, Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA
> Senior Fellow, Oxford Center for Hindu Studies
> 
> [Residence: Campbell, California, USA]
> 
> 
> On Thu, Mar 26, 2020 at 12:30 PM Christian Ferstl <christian.ferstl at univie.ac.at <mailto:christian.ferstl at univie.ac.at>> wrote:
> 
> And Arjuna says to Draupadi --
> 
> ??? ? ???????? ?????? ?? ???????? ???? ?
> ??????????????? ??? ???????? ???????? ?
> 
> Today my hand must not touch your lotus-like hand.
> That demon called Corona must be killed by the God of Love!
> 
> It seems I'm kind of infected by Prof. Deshpande's karona-k?vya virus.
> 
> Christian Ferstl
> University of Vienna
> 
> 
> Am 26.03.2020 15:23, schrieb Madhav Deshpande via INDOLOGY:
> > Draupadi says to Arjuna -
> > 
> > ??????? ?? ???????
> > ??????? ????? ? ???????: ?
> > 
> > ?????????????????????
> > ????????? ??????? ??
> > 
> > O Arjuna, don?t shoot the fish [with your arrow, to prove that you
> > are the best archer], since the ceremony of choosing the groom will
> > not be happening. After the Coronavirus goes away, please come back
> > quickly.
> > 
> > Madhav M. Deshpande
> > Professor Emeritus, Sanskrit and Linguistics
> > University of Michigan, Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA
> > Senior Fellow, Oxford Center for Hindu Studies
> > 
> > [Residence: Campbell, California, USA]
> > _______________________________________________
> > INDOLOGY mailing list
> > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info <mailto:INDOLOGY at list.indology.info>
> > indology-owner at list.indology.info <mailto:indology-owner at list.indology.info> (messages to the list's managing 
> > committee)
> > http://listinfo.indology.info <http://listinfo.indology.info/> (where you can change your list options
> > or unsubscribe)
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info <mailto:INDOLOGY at list.indology.info>
> indology-owner at list.indology.info <mailto:indology-owner at list.indology.info> (messages to the list's managing committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info <http://listinfo.indology.info/> (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe)
> 
> 
> -- 
> Nagaraj Paturi
>  
> Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.
> 
> 
> Director,  Inter-Gurukula-University Centre , Indic Academy
> BoS, MIT School of Vedic Sciences, Pune, Maharashtra
> BoS, Chinmaya Vishwavidyapeeth, Veliyanad, Kerala
> BoS Veda Vijnana Gurukula, Bengaluru.
> Member, Advisory Council, Veda Vijnana Shodha Samsthanam, Bengaluru
> Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies, 
> FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of  Liberal Education, 
> Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.
>  
>  
>  
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info <mailto:INDOLOGY at list.indology.info>
> indology-owner at list.indology.info <mailto:indology-owner at list.indology.info> (messages to the list's managing committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info <http://listinfo.indology.info/> (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe)
> 
> 
> -- 
> Nagaraj Paturi
>  
> Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.
> 
> 
> Director,  Inter-Gurukula-University Centre , Indic Academy
> BoS, MIT School of Vedic Sciences, Pune, Maharashtra
> BoS, Chinmaya Vishwavidyapeeth, Veliyanad, Kerala
> BoS Veda Vijnana Gurukula, Bengaluru.
> Member, Advisory Council, Veda Vijnana Shodha Samsthanam, Bengaluru
> Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies, 
> FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of  Liberal Education, 
> Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.
>  
>  
>  
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info <mailto:INDOLOGY at list.indology.info>
> indology-owner at list.indology.info <mailto:indology-owner at list.indology.info> (messages to the list's managing committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info <http://listinfo.indology.info/> (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe)



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From mkapstei at uchicago.edu  Sat Mar 28 11:07:13 2020
From: mkapstei at uchicago.edu (Matthew Kapstein)
Date: Sat, 28 Mar 20 11:07:13 +0000
Subject: [INDOLOGY] more distraction
Message-ID: <DM6PR11MB40594D44A12CE56C66716098A1CD0@DM6PR11MB4059.namprd11.prod.outlook.com>

With so many mah?kavi-s on this list, you will have to forgive me this silly amateurism (with Tibetan translation):

???????????? ???????? ????????????????????
???????????? ?? ???? ????????????


?????????????????????????

????????????????????????

????????????????????????

??????????????????????????


Matthew

Matthew Kapstein
Directeur d'?tudes, ?m?rite
Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes, Paris

Numata Visiting Professor of Buddhist Studies,
The University of Chicago


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From nagarajpaturi at gmail.com  Sat Mar 28 12:56:34 2020
From: nagarajpaturi at gmail.com (Nagaraj Paturi)
Date: Sat, 28 Mar 20 18:26:34 +0530
Subject: [INDOLOGY] A distraction from the Coronavirus
In-Reply-To: <D3C0615D-052E-44FE-8ECF-9787594897EC@btinternet.com>
Message-ID: <CAJGj9ebjog-4r+PeVoB5_1pKfp8X=XROqtHaBfH+3BvxF68W+A@mail.gmail.com>

Dear Valerie-ji,

Please go ahead.

Please don't get discouraged by such aprastutaprasanga/aprakritaprasanga.

Rasikasaamaajikas will welcome your poems.

Regards,

Nagaraj

On Sat, Mar 28, 2020 at 4:33 PM Valerie Roebuck <vjroebuck at btinternet.com>
wrote:

> Dear Nagaraj
>
> Thank you for saying this. I was on the point of attempting to burst forth
> into Sanskrit verse, but have now been scared off again.
>
> Valerie J Roebuck
> Manchester, UK
>
>
> On 27 Mar 2020, at 12:35, Nagaraj Paturi via INDOLOGY <
> indology at list.indology.info> wrote:
>
> Measuring number of claps, correlating with the number of pandas, what is
> all this ? If you are sincere in encouraging ' his first attempts at
> composing Sanskrit verses  ' ( I didn't know any such details about the
> poet ) do not drag this twisted discussion beyond this point. Please help
> the poet through some constructive criticism from your side, without
> involving comments of others made with good intentions.
>
> Sorry, Dr (?) Christian Ferstl for engaging with such unwarranted
> discussion. I am sure you will understand my true appreciation of your
> poetic skills.
>
> On Fri, Mar 27, 2020 at 4:29 PM Walter Slaje <walter.slaje at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> As you can see, Prof. Deshpande only clapped three times, one clapping
>> hand for each correct P?da. He used the dhvani of the missing hand to mark
>> the first p?da gentlemanly as incorrect.
>>
>> In contrast, 24 carrots were awarded for the full number of 4 P?das, six
>> carrots each, although the quality is clearly unequally distributed over
>> the p?das. The assessment was therefore inadequate. Adequate would have
>> been 18 carrots at best, which is easy to understand if you subtract 6 of
>> your carrots for the failed P?da a.
>>
>> Leaving aside that we have just learned that correct grammar plays no
>> significant role in assessing Sanskrit poetry, and, obviously, it never
>> has. Just look at the language of the ancient kavis. Wherever you look, no
>> trace of grammar.
>>
>> WS
>>
>>
>> Am Fr., 27. M?rz 2020 um 11:15 Uhr schrieb Nagaraj Paturi via INDOLOGY <
>> indology at list.indology.info>:
>>
>>> How sarcastic that Prof. Deshpande's claps below don't look sarcastic in
>>> spite of the speciality of the rasikakavyaachaarya being grammar.
>>>
>>> On Fri, Mar 27, 2020 at 1:30 AM Madhav Deshpande via INDOLOGY <
>>> indology at list.indology.info> wrote:
>>>
>>>> ???
>>>>
>>>> Madhav M. Deshpande
>>>> Professor Emeritus, Sanskrit and Linguistics
>>>> University of Michigan, Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA
>>>> Senior Fellow, Oxford Center for Hindu Studies
>>>>
>>>> [Residence: Campbell, California, USA]
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Thu, Mar 26, 2020 at 12:30 PM Christian Ferstl <
>>>> christian.ferstl at univie.ac.at> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> And Arjuna says to Draupadi --
>>>>>
>>>>> ??? ? ???????? ?????? ?? ???????? ???? ?
>>>>> ??????????????? ??? ???????? ???????? ?
>>>>>
>>>>> Today my hand must not touch your lotus-like hand.
>>>>> That demon called Corona must be killed by the God of Love!
>>>>>
>>>>> It seems I'm kind of infected by Prof. Deshpande's karona-k?vya virus.
>>>>>
>>>>> Christian Ferstl
>>>>> University of Vienna
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Am 26.03.2020 15:23, schrieb Madhav Deshpande via INDOLOGY:
>>>>> > Draupadi says to Arjuna -
>>>>> >
>>>>> > ??????? ?? ???????
>>>>> > ??????? ????? ? ???????: ?
>>>>> >
>>>>> > ?????????????????????
>>>>> > ????????? ??????? ??
>>>>> >
>>>>> > O Arjuna, don?t shoot the fish [with your arrow, to prove that you
>>>>> > are the best archer], since the ceremony of choosing the groom will
>>>>> > not be happening. After the Coronavirus goes away, please come back
>>>>> > quickly.
>>>>> >
>>>>> > Madhav M. Deshpande
>>>>> > Professor Emeritus, Sanskrit and Linguistics
>>>>> > University of Michigan, Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA
>>>>> > Senior Fellow, Oxford Center for Hindu Studies
>>>>> >
>>>>> > [Residence: Campbell, California, USA]
>>>>> > _______________________________________________
>>>>> > INDOLOGY mailing list
>>>>> > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>>>>> > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
>>>>> > committee)
>>>>> > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list
>>>>> options
>>>>> > or unsubscribe)
>>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>>>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>>>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
>>>> committee)
>>>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options
>>>> or unsubscribe)
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Nagaraj Paturi
>>>
>>> Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.
>>>
>>>
>>> Director,  Inter-Gurukula-University Centre , Indic Academy
>>> BoS, MIT School of Vedic Sciences, Pune, Maharashtra
>>> BoS, Chinmaya Vishwavidyapeeth, Veliyanad, Kerala
>>> BoS Veda Vijnana Gurukula, Bengaluru.
>>> Member, Advisory Council, Veda Vijnana Shodha Samsthanam, Bengaluru
>>> Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies,
>>> FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of  Liberal Education,
>>> Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
>>> committee)
>>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options
>>> or unsubscribe)
>>>
>>
>
> --
> Nagaraj Paturi
>
> Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.
>
>
> Director,  Inter-Gurukula-University Centre , Indic Academy
> BoS, MIT School of Vedic Sciences, Pune, Maharashtra
> BoS, Chinmaya Vishwavidyapeeth, Veliyanad, Kerala
> BoS Veda Vijnana Gurukula, Bengaluru.
> Member, Advisory Council, Veda Vijnana Shodha Samsthanam, Bengaluru
> Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies,
> FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of  Liberal Education,
> Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
> committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
> unsubscribe)
>
>
>

-- 
Nagaraj Paturi

Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.


Director,  Inter-Gurukula-University Centre , Indic Academy
BoS, MIT School of Vedic Sciences, Pune, Maharashtra
BoS, Chinmaya Vishwavidyapeeth, Veliyanad, Kerala
BoS Veda Vijnana Gurukula, Bengaluru.
Member, Advisory Council, Veda Vijnana Shodha Samsthanam, Bengaluru
Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies,
FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of  Liberal Education,
Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.


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From mmdesh at umich.edu  Sat Mar 28 13:32:05 2020
From: mmdesh at umich.edu (Madhav Deshpande)
Date: Sat, 28 Mar 20 06:32:05 -0700
Subject: [INDOLOGY] A distraction from the Coronavirus
Message-ID: <CAB3-dzdFgHCAphbEn7Kw+wVM4EaSsLW9DQXf5XhQUBrkOoc8rQ@mail.gmail.com>

A distraction from the Coronavirus

???? ???????? ???? ???????? ?? ??????? ?
????????????????????? ????????? ???? ??

Lakshmana said to Shurpanakha: ?O Shurpanakha, go far away. Don?t come near
me. Come back after the Coronavirus goes away.?

Madhav M. Deshpande
Professor Emeritus, Sanskrit and Linguistics
University of Michigan, Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA
Senior Fellow, Oxford Center for Hindu Studies

[Residence: Campbell, California, USA]


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From christian.ferstl at univie.ac.at  Sat Mar 28 14:58:27 2020
From: christian.ferstl at univie.ac.at (Christian Ferstl)
Date: Sat, 28 Mar 20 15:58:27 +0100
Subject: [INDOLOGY] A distraction from the Coronavirus
In-Reply-To: <CAB3-dzdFgHCAphbEn7Kw+wVM4EaSsLW9DQXf5XhQUBrkOoc8rQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <84c36691b40db104ecbdc4693a8b3bcf@univie.ac.at>

And he said to Sita:

?? ????????????? ???? ????? ??????? ?????? ?
? ????????? ???????????????????? ?

"Don't leave the hut, Sita! Stay here under all circumstances,
until Hanuman brings medicine against Corona."


Christian Ferstl

Am 28.03.2020 14:32, schrieb Madhav Deshpande via INDOLOGY:
> A distraction from the Coronavirus
> 
> ???? ???????? ????
> ???????? ?? ??????? ?
> 
> ?????????????????????
> ????????? ???? ??
> 
> Lakshmana said to Shurpanakha: ?O Shurpanakha, go far away. Don?t
> come near me. Come back after the Coronavirus goes away.?
> 
> Madhav M. Deshpande
> Professor Emeritus, Sanskrit and Linguistics
> University of Michigan, Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA
> Senior Fellow, Oxford Center for Hindu Studies
> 
> [Residence: Campbell, California, USA]
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing 
> committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options
> or unsubscribe)





From stella.sandahl at gmail.com  Sat Mar 28 15:32:57 2020
From: stella.sandahl at gmail.com (Stella Sandahl)
Date: Sat, 28 Mar 20 11:32:57 -0400
Subject: [INDOLOGY] A distraction from the Coronavirus
In-Reply-To: <CAB3-dzdFgHCAphbEn7Kw+wVM4EaSsLW9DQXf5XhQUBrkOoc8rQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4EDDF7F7-F0E8-4263-A868-6ADCCFC1082B@gmail.com>

Dear Madhav
Why on earth do you think Lakshmana would like Shurpanakha to come back under any
circumstances?
Best wishes
Stella


Stella Sandahl
stela.sandahl at gmail.com <mailto:stela.sandahl at gmail.com>


> On Mar 28, 2020, at 9:32 AM, Madhav Deshpande via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info <mailto:indology at list.indology.info>> wrote:
> 
> A distraction from the Coronavirus
> 
> ???? ???????? ???? ???????? ?? ??????? ?
> ????????????????????? ????????? ???? ??
> 
> Lakshmana said to Shurpanakha: ?O Shurpanakha, go far away.  Don?t come near me.  Come back after the Coronavirus goes away.?
> 
> Madhav M. Deshpande
> Professor Emeritus, Sanskrit and Linguistics
> University of Michigan, Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA
> Senior Fellow, Oxford Center for Hindu Studies
> 
> [Residence: Campbell, California, USA]
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info <mailto:INDOLOGY at list.indology.info>
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe)



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From mmdesh at umich.edu  Sat Mar 28 15:39:32 2020
From: mmdesh at umich.edu (Madhav Deshpande)
Date: Sat, 28 Mar 20 08:39:32 -0700
Subject: [INDOLOGY] A distraction from the Coronavirus
In-Reply-To: <84c36691b40db104ecbdc4693a8b3bcf@univie.ac.at>
Message-ID: <CAB3-dzddpZjJN1O-aajTd=E6Vs+SAWFRkc5qOnX0SHtwcfQz1A@mail.gmail.com>

Dear Christian,

     This is beautiful and imaginative.  Keep it up.

Madhav

Madhav M. Deshpande
Professor Emeritus, Sanskrit and Linguistics
University of Michigan, Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA
Senior Fellow, Oxford Center for Hindu Studies

[Residence: Campbell, California, USA]


On Sat, Mar 28, 2020 at 7:58 AM Christian Ferstl <
christian.ferstl at univie.ac.at> wrote:

> And he said to Sita:
>
> ?? ????????????? ???? ????? ??????? ?????? ?
> ? ????????? ???????????????????? ?
>
> "Don't leave the hut, Sita! Stay here under all circumstances,
> until Hanuman brings medicine against Corona."
>
>
> Christian Ferstl
>
> Am 28.03.2020 14:32, schrieb Madhav Deshpande via INDOLOGY:
> > A distraction from the Coronavirus
> >
> > ???? ???????? ????
> > ???????? ?? ??????? ?
> >
> > ?????????????????????
> > ????????? ???? ??
> >
> > Lakshmana said to Shurpanakha: ?O Shurpanakha, go far away. Don?t
> > come near me. Come back after the Coronavirus goes away.?
> >
> > Madhav M. Deshpande
> > Professor Emeritus, Sanskrit and Linguistics
> > University of Michigan, Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA
> > Senior Fellow, Oxford Center for Hindu Studies
> >
> > [Residence: Campbell, California, USA]
> > _______________________________________________
> > INDOLOGY mailing list
> > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
> > committee)
> > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options
> > or unsubscribe)
>


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From walter.slaje at gmail.com  Sat Mar 28 15:50:34 2020
From: walter.slaje at gmail.com (Walter Slaje)
Date: Sat, 28 Mar 20 16:50:34 +0100
Subject: [INDOLOGY] A distraction from the Coronavirus
In-Reply-To: <CAJGj9ebjog-4r+PeVoB5_1pKfp8X=XROqtHaBfH+3BvxF68W+A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CALoZ1nXbWR3C4uwRU+PBcy+EWDE2niPPYiN5FZ=d-_UB9Y4E2g@mail.gmail.com>

> Rasikasaamaajikas will welcome your poems

Prospective Sanskrit poets should never lose sight of the warning words of
a true Mah?kavi:

kuryus tv anuk?a?am a?ik?italak?a?? ye

k?peyam ?? kavipad?dhigamasp?h?y?? |

te ?nudgatacchadapu?? iva pak?i??v?
vyagr? ha?ho??ayanabh?mny asak?t patanti ||

y?t?s te rasas?rasa?grahavidhi? ni?p??ya ni?p??ya ye

v?ktattvek?ulat?? pur? katipaye tattvasp??a? cakrire |

j?yante ?dya yath?yatha? tu kavayas te tatra sa?tanvate
ye ?nupr?saka?horacitrayamaka?le??di?alkoccayam ||

para?lok?n stok?n pratidivasam abhyasya nanu ye

catu?p?d?? kuryur bahava iha te santi kavaya? |

avicchinnodgacchajjaladhilahar?r?tisuh?da?

suh?dy? vai?adya? dadhati kila ke???cana gira? ||



Am Sa., 28. M?rz 2020 um 13:57 Uhr schrieb Nagaraj Paturi via INDOLOGY <
indology at list.indology.info>:

> Dear Valerie-ji,
>
> Please go ahead.
>
> Please don't get discouraged by such aprastutaprasanga/aprakritaprasanga.
>
> Rasikasaamaajikas will welcome your poems.
>
> Regards,
>
> Nagaraj
>
> On Sat, Mar 28, 2020 at 4:33 PM Valerie Roebuck <vjroebuck at btinternet.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Dear Nagaraj
>>
>> Thank you for saying this. I was on the point of attempting to burst
>> forth into Sanskrit verse, but have now been scared off again.
>>
>> Valerie J Roebuck
>> Manchester, UK
>>
>>
>> On 27 Mar 2020, at 12:35, Nagaraj Paturi via INDOLOGY <
>> indology at list.indology.info> wrote:
>>
>> Measuring number of claps, correlating with the number of pandas, what is
>> all this ? If you are sincere in encouraging ' his first attempts at
>> composing Sanskrit verses  ' ( I didn't know any such details about the
>> poet ) do not drag this twisted discussion beyond this point. Please help
>> the poet through some constructive criticism from your side, without
>> involving comments of others made with good intentions.
>>
>> Sorry, Dr (?) Christian Ferstl for engaging with such unwarranted
>> discussion. I am sure you will understand my true appreciation of your
>> poetic skills.
>>
>> On Fri, Mar 27, 2020 at 4:29 PM Walter Slaje <walter.slaje at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> As you can see, Prof. Deshpande only clapped three times, one clapping
>>> hand for each correct P?da. He used the dhvani of the missing hand to mark
>>> the first p?da gentlemanly as incorrect.
>>>
>>> In contrast, 24 carrots were awarded for the full number of 4 P?das, six
>>> carrots each, although the quality is clearly unequally distributed over
>>> the p?das. The assessment was therefore inadequate. Adequate would have
>>> been 18 carrots at best, which is easy to understand if you subtract 6 of
>>> your carrots for the failed P?da a.
>>>
>>> Leaving aside that we have just learned that correct grammar plays no
>>> significant role in assessing Sanskrit poetry, and, obviously, it never
>>> has. Just look at the language of the ancient kavis. Wherever you look, no
>>> trace of grammar.
>>>
>>> WS
>>>
>>>
>>> Am Fr., 27. M?rz 2020 um 11:15 Uhr schrieb Nagaraj Paturi via INDOLOGY <
>>> indology at list.indology.info>:
>>>
>>>> How sarcastic that Prof. Deshpande's claps below don't look sarcastic
>>>> in spite of the speciality of the rasikakavyaachaarya being grammar.
>>>>
>>>> On Fri, Mar 27, 2020 at 1:30 AM Madhav Deshpande via INDOLOGY <
>>>> indology at list.indology.info> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> ???
>>>>>
>>>>> Madhav M. Deshpande
>>>>> Professor Emeritus, Sanskrit and Linguistics
>>>>> University of Michigan, Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA
>>>>> Senior Fellow, Oxford Center for Hindu Studies
>>>>>
>>>>> [Residence: Campbell, California, USA]
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Thu, Mar 26, 2020 at 12:30 PM Christian Ferstl <
>>>>> christian.ferstl at univie.ac.at> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> And Arjuna says to Draupadi --
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ??? ? ???????? ?????? ?? ???????? ???? ?
>>>>>> ??????????????? ??? ???????? ???????? ?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Today my hand must not touch your lotus-like hand.
>>>>>> That demon called Corona must be killed by the God of Love!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It seems I'm kind of infected by Prof. Deshpande's karona-k?vya virus.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Christian Ferstl
>>>>>> University of Vienna
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Am 26.03.2020 15:23, schrieb Madhav Deshpande via INDOLOGY:
>>>>>> > Draupadi says to Arjuna -
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > ??????? ?? ???????
>>>>>> > ??????? ????? ? ???????: ?
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > ?????????????????????
>>>>>> > ????????? ??????? ??
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > O Arjuna, don?t shoot the fish [with your arrow, to prove that you
>>>>>> > are the best archer], since the ceremony of choosing the groom will
>>>>>> > not be happening. After the Coronavirus goes away, please come back
>>>>>> > quickly.
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > Madhav M. Deshpande
>>>>>> > Professor Emeritus, Sanskrit and Linguistics
>>>>>> > University of Michigan, Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA
>>>>>> > Senior Fellow, Oxford Center for Hindu Studies
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > [Residence: Campbell, California, USA]
>>>>>> > _______________________________________________
>>>>>> > INDOLOGY mailing list
>>>>>> > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>>>>>> > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
>>>>>> > committee)
>>>>>> > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list
>>>>>> options
>>>>>> > or unsubscribe)
>>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>>>>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>>>>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
>>>>> committee)
>>>>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options
>>>>> or unsubscribe)
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Nagaraj Paturi
>>>>
>>>> Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Director,  Inter-Gurukula-University Centre , Indic Academy
>>>> BoS, MIT School of Vedic Sciences, Pune, Maharashtra
>>>> BoS, Chinmaya Vishwavidyapeeth, Veliyanad, Kerala
>>>> BoS Veda Vijnana Gurukula, Bengaluru.
>>>> Member, Advisory Council, Veda Vijnana Shodha Samsthanam, Bengaluru
>>>> Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies,
>>>> FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of  Liberal Education,
>>>> Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>>>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>>>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
>>>> committee)
>>>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options
>>>> or unsubscribe)
>>>>
>>>
>>
>> --
>> Nagaraj Paturi
>>
>> Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.
>>
>>
>> Director,  Inter-Gurukula-University Centre , Indic Academy
>> BoS, MIT School of Vedic Sciences, Pune, Maharashtra
>> BoS, Chinmaya Vishwavidyapeeth, Veliyanad, Kerala
>> BoS Veda Vijnana Gurukula, Bengaluru.
>> Member, Advisory Council, Veda Vijnana Shodha Samsthanam, Bengaluru
>> Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies,
>> FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of  Liberal Education,
>> Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
>> committee)
>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
>> unsubscribe)
>>
>>
>>
>
> --
> Nagaraj Paturi
>
> Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.
>
>
> Director,  Inter-Gurukula-University Centre , Indic Academy
> BoS, MIT School of Vedic Sciences, Pune, Maharashtra
> BoS, Chinmaya Vishwavidyapeeth, Veliyanad, Kerala
> BoS Veda Vijnana Gurukula, Bengaluru.
> Member, Advisory Council, Veda Vijnana Shodha Samsthanam, Bengaluru
> Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies,
> FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of  Liberal Education,
> Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
> committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
> unsubscribe)
>


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From hhhock at illinois.edu  Sat Mar 28 16:03:06 2020
From: hhhock at illinois.edu (Hock, Hans Henrich)
Date: Sat, 28 Mar 20 16:03:06 +0000
Subject: [INDOLOGY] A distraction from the Coronavirus
In-Reply-To: <CAB3-dzddpZjJN1O-aajTd=E6Vs+SAWFRkc5qOnX0SHtwcfQz1A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <91CE12B0-018D-4E93-9A63-371A85E0A828@illinois.edu>

This may not be so beautiful, but then, I?m a linguist

???????????????? ???? ???????? ?????
???????????????????????? ???????????

Hans Henrich

On 28 Mar2020, at 10:39, Madhav Deshpande via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info<mailto:indology at list.indology.info>> wrote:

Dear Christian,

     This is beautiful and imaginative.  Keep it up.

Madhav

Madhav M. Deshpande
Professor Emeritus, Sanskrit and Linguistics
University of Michigan, Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA
Senior Fellow, Oxford Center for Hindu Studies

[Residence: Campbell, California, USA]


On Sat, Mar 28, 2020 at 7:58 AM Christian Ferstl <christian.ferstl at univie.ac.at<mailto:christian.ferstl at univie.ac.at>> wrote:
And he said to Sita:

?? ????????????? ???? ????? ??????? ?????? ?
? ????????? ???????????????????? ?

"Don't leave the hut, Sita! Stay here under all circumstances,
until Hanuman brings medicine against Corona."


Christian Ferstl

Am 28.03.2020 14:32, schrieb Madhav Deshpande via INDOLOGY:
> A distraction from the Coronavirus
>
> ???? ???????? ????
> ???????? ?? ??????? ?
>
> ?????????????????????
> ????????? ???? ??
>
> Lakshmana said to Shurpanakha: ?O Shurpanakha, go far away. Don?t
> come near me. Come back after the Coronavirus goes away.?
>
> Madhav M. Deshpande
> Professor Emeritus, Sanskrit and Linguistics
> University of Michigan, Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA
> Senior Fellow, Oxford Center for Hindu Studies
>
> [Residence: Campbell, California, USA]
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info<mailto:INDOLOGY at list.indology.info>
> indology-owner at list.indology.info<mailto:indology-owner at list.indology.info> (messages to the list's managing
> committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info<http://listinfo.indology.info/> (where you can change your list options
> or unsubscribe)
_______________________________________________
INDOLOGY mailing list
INDOLOGY at list.indology.info<mailto:INDOLOGY at list.indology.info>
indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee)
http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe)



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From jhakgirish at gmail.com  Sat Mar 28 16:05:46 2020
From: jhakgirish at gmail.com (Girish Jha)
Date: Sat, 28 Mar 20 21:35:46 +0530
Subject: [INDOLOGY] A distraction from the Coronavirus
In-Reply-To: <84c36691b40db104ecbdc4693a8b3bcf@univie.ac.at>
Message-ID: <CAKdrZG2mobjdbDmCfLPNiRkHu8M+nW6Tq23btdsOv3ykNxds_Q@mail.gmail.com>

Dear Mr Christian
Pranamami.
Hear ???????? should be used instead of ?????????  as per Panini's
Grammar.It is advisable to use here ???????????? which well maintains the
same meaning and metre.
??????????s?? ????
Girish K.Jha
Retd.University Professor
Dept of Sanskrit
Patna University
Current Residence: Kolkata

On Sat, 28 Mar 2020, 20:29 Christian Ferstl via INDOLOGY, <
indology at list.indology.info> wrote:

> And he said to Sita:
>
> ?? ????????????? ???? ????? ??????? ?????? ?
> ? ????????? ???????????????????? ?
>
> "Don't leave the hut, Sita! Stay here under all circumstances,
> until Hanuman brings medicine against Corona."
>
>
> Christian Ferstl
>
> Am 28.03.2020 14:32, schrieb Madhav Deshpande via INDOLOGY:
> > A distraction from the Coronavirus
> >
> > ???? ???????? ????
> > ???????? ?? ??????? ?
> >
> > ?????????????????????
> > ????????? ???? ??
> >
> > Lakshmana said to Shurpanakha: ?O Shurpanakha, go far away. Don?t
> > come near me. Come back after the Coronavirus goes away.?
> >
> > Madhav M. Deshpande
> > Professor Emeritus, Sanskrit and Linguistics
> > University of Michigan, Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA
> > Senior Fellow, Oxford Center for Hindu Studies
> >
> > [Residence: Campbell, California, USA]
> > _______________________________________________
> > INDOLOGY mailing list
> > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
> > committee)
> > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options
> > or unsubscribe)
>
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
> committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
> unsubscribe)
>


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From John.Brockington at btinternet.com  Sat Mar 28 16:14:12 2020
From: John.Brockington at btinternet.com (John Brockington)
Date: Sat, 28 Mar 20 16:14:12 +0000
Subject: [INDOLOGY] A distraction from the Coronavirus
In-Reply-To: <CAKdrZG2mobjdbDmCfLPNiRkHu8M+nW6Tq23btdsOv3ykNxds_Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <56ae9bc1-fe27-5cfe-cc05-b6ca4a25fc11@btinternet.com>

However, /?ne?yati/is common in epic Sanskrit, so is appropriate to the 
subject matter (and the metre).

John Brockington


Professor J. L. Brockington

Fellow, Oxford Centre for Hindu Studies

Emeritus Professor of Sanskrit, University of Edinburgh

Vice President, International Association of Sanskrit Studies

113 Rutten Lane
Yarnton
Kidlington 0X5 1LT
tel: 01865 849438

On 28/03/2020 16:05, Girish Jha via INDOLOGY wrote:
> Dear Mr Christian
> Pranamami.
> Hear ???????? should be used instead of ?????????? as per Panini's 
> Grammar.It is advisable to use here ???????????? which well maintains 
> the same meaning and metre.
> ??????????s?? ????
> Girish K.Jha
> Retd.University Professor
> Dept of Sanskrit
> Patna University
> Current Residence: Kolkata
>
> On Sat, 28 Mar 2020, 20:29 Christian Ferstl via INDOLOGY, 
> <indology at list.indology.info <mailto:indology at list.indology.info>> wrote:
>
>     And he said to Sita:
>
>     ?? ????????????? ???? ????? ??????? ?????? ?
>     ? ????????? ???????????????????? ?
>
>     "Don't leave the hut, Sita! Stay here under all circumstances,
>     until Hanuman brings medicine against Corona."
>
>
>     Christian Ferstl
>
>     Am 28.03.2020 14:32, schrieb Madhav Deshpande via INDOLOGY:
>     > A distraction from the Coronavirus
>     >
>     > ???? ???????? ????
>     > ???????? ?? ??????? ?
>     >
>     > ?????????????????????
>     > ????????? ???? ??
>     >
>     > Lakshmana said to Shurpanakha: ?O Shurpanakha, go far away. Don?t
>     > come near me. Come back after the Coronavirus goes away.?
>     >
>     > Madhav M. Deshpande
>     > Professor Emeritus, Sanskrit and Linguistics
>     > University of Michigan, Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA
>     > Senior Fellow, Oxford Center for Hindu Studies
>     >
>     > [Residence: Campbell, California, USA]
>     > _______________________________________________
>     > INDOLOGY mailing list
>     > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info <mailto:INDOLOGY at list.indology.info>
>     > indology-owner at list.indology.info
>     <mailto:indology-owner at list.indology.info> (messages to the list's
>     managing
>     > committee)
>     > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list
>     options
>     > or unsubscribe)
>
>     _______________________________________________
>     INDOLOGY mailing list
>     INDOLOGY at list.indology.info <mailto:INDOLOGY at list.indology.info>
>     indology-owner at list.indology.info
>     <mailto:indology-owner at list.indology.info> (messages to the list's
>     managing committee)
>     http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list
>     options or unsubscribe)
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe)



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From hhhock at illinois.edu  Sat Mar 28 16:18:52 2020
From: hhhock at illinois.edu (Hock, Hans Henrich)
Date: Sat, 28 Mar 20 16:18:52 +0000
Subject: [INDOLOGY] A distraction from the Coronavirus
In-Reply-To: <CAB3-dzddpZjJN1O-aajTd=E6Vs+SAWFRkc5qOnX0SHtwcfQz1A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <C50E0252-C69D-4212-AC69-282560C65392@illinois.edu>

Oops ?

Please substitute the following

???????????????? ???? ???????? ?????
???????????????????????? ????????


This may not be so beautiful, but then, I?m a linguist

???????????????? ???? ???????? ?????
???????????????????????? ???????????

Hans Henrich

On 28 Mar2020, at 10:39, Madhav Deshpande via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info<mailto:indology at list.indology.info>> wrote:

Dear Christian,

     This is beautiful and imaginative.  Keep it up.

Madhav

Madhav M. Deshpande
Professor Emeritus, Sanskrit and Linguistics
University of Michigan, Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA
Senior Fellow, Oxford Center for Hindu Studies

[Residence: Campbell, California, USA]


On Sat, Mar 28, 2020 at 7:58 AM Christian Ferstl <christian.ferstl at univie.ac.at<mailto:christian.ferstl at univie.ac.at>> wrote:
And he said to Sita:

?? ????????????? ???? ????? ??????? ?????? ?
? ????????? ???????????????????? ?

"Don't leave the hut, Sita! Stay here under all circumstances,
until Hanuman brings medicine against Corona."


Christian Ferstl

Am 28.03.2020 14:32, schrieb Madhav Deshpande via INDOLOGY:
> A distraction from the Coronavirus
>
> ???? ???????? ????
> ???????? ?? ??????? ?
>
> ?????????????????????
> ????????? ???? ??
>
> Lakshmana said to Shurpanakha: ?O Shurpanakha, go far away. Don?t
> come near me. Come back after the Coronavirus goes away.?
>
> Madhav M. Deshpande
> Professor Emeritus, Sanskrit and Linguistics
> University of Michigan, Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA
> Senior Fellow, Oxford Center for Hindu Studies
>
> [Residence: Campbell, California, USA]
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info<mailto:INDOLOGY at list.indology.info>
> indology-owner at list.indology.info<mailto:indology-owner at list.indology.info> (messages to the list's managing
> committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info<http://listinfo.indology.info/> (where you can change your list options
> or unsubscribe)
_______________________________________________
INDOLOGY mailing list
INDOLOGY at list.indology.info<mailto:INDOLOGY at list.indology.info>
indology-owner at list.indology.info<mailto:indology-owner at list.indology.info> (messages to the list's managing committee)
http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe)



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From vasishtha.spier at gmail.com  Sat Mar 28 21:45:23 2020
From: vasishtha.spier at gmail.com (Harry Spier)
Date: Sat, 28 Mar 20 17:45:23 -0400
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Retroflexion and gender in viruses
In-Reply-To: <DM6PR11MB40594D44A12CE56C66716098A1CD0@DM6PR11MB4059.namprd11.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <CAJ3b0o9-TbyKehAfwuLg3g3vMMJWSSYEd_u2O7_t3p8ej81h9A@mail.gmail.com>

Mathew Kapstein: ?????
Others ??????


On Sat, Mar 28, 2020 at 7:08 AM Matthew Kapstein via INDOLOGY <
indology at list.indology.info> wrote:

> With so many mah?kavi-s on this list, you will have to forgive me this
> silly amateurism (with Tibetan translation):
>
> ???????????? ???????? ????????????????????
> ???????????? ?? ???? ????????????
>
> ?????????????????????????
>
> ????????????????????????
>
> ????????????????????????
>
> ??????????????????????????
>
>
> Matthew
>
> Matthew Kapstein
> Directeur d'?tudes, ?m?rite
> Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes, Paris
>
> Numata Visiting Professor of Buddhist Studies,
> The University of Chicago
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
> committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
> unsubscribe)
>


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From mmdesh at umich.edu  Sun Mar 29 04:22:11 2020
From: mmdesh at umich.edu (Madhav Deshpande)
Date: Sat, 28 Mar 20 21:22:11 -0700
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Retroflexion and gender in viruses
In-Reply-To: <CAJ3b0o9-TbyKehAfwuLg3g3vMMJWSSYEd_u2O7_t3p8ej81h9A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAB3-dzcb7WuTyFrOiS11S1PY9-DFe-WaSM5bJkObwTTn__dUbA@mail.gmail.com>

Dear Harry,

     There are similar alternating usages found in Sanskrit as well and
authorized by Panini, for example -

???????????????????? ?????

???????????? - ???? ??????? ???????? ??? ???????? ??????????? ? ?????????
????????????????? ????????? ???? ????? ???? ??????? ????????????? ?????
??????????, ??????????? ??????????, ??????????? ??????????? ?????????,
?????????? ????????, ?????????

Madhav M. Deshpande
Professor Emeritus, Sanskrit and Linguistics
University of Michigan, Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA
Senior Fellow, Oxford Center for Hindu Studies

[Residence: Campbell, California, USA]


On Sat, Mar 28, 2020 at 2:46 PM Harry Spier via INDOLOGY <
indology at list.indology.info> wrote:

>
> Mathew Kapstein: ?????
> Others ??????
>
>
> On Sat, Mar 28, 2020 at 7:08 AM Matthew Kapstein via INDOLOGY <
> indology at list.indology.info> wrote:
>
>> With so many mah?kavi-s on this list, you will have to forgive me this
>> silly amateurism (with Tibetan translation):
>>
>> ???????????? ???????? ????????????????????
>> ???????????? ?? ???? ????????????
>>
>> ?????????????????????????
>>
>> ????????????????????????
>>
>> ????????????????????????
>>
>> ??????????????????????????
>>
>>
>> Matthew
>>
>> Matthew Kapstein
>> Directeur d'?tudes, ?m?rite
>> Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes, Paris
>>
>> Numata Visiting Professor of Buddhist Studies,
>> The University of Chicago
>> _______________________________________________
>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
>> committee)
>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
>> unsubscribe)
>>
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
> committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
> unsubscribe)
>


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From jemhouben at gmail.com  Sun Mar 29 08:20:05 2020
From: jemhouben at gmail.com (Jan E.M. Houben)
Date: Sun, 29 Mar 20 10:20:05 +0200
Subject: [INDOLOGY] (still) no distraction from the coronavirus...
In-Reply-To: <7adf623c-cd26-dea8-d5cd-4867f3ce9bd8@univ-paris-diderot.fr>
Message-ID: <CAGCGLoBi1q2hNpVZzvwgkx0SkEw5u5FF7S=1p+ZSqtSb-wH-VA@mail.gmail.com>

Dear Jean-Luc,
This is as fascinating as it is puzzling.
Have the translations of (parts of) the Tolk?ppiyam by K. Zvelebil ever
been published?
See his announcement of a translation in his *The Smile** Of Murugan*,
Leiden, 1973, p. 131.
Stay healthy and well in M?ssen,
Jan

P.S.
for the children in M?ssen, during the corona-crisis:

??????????????? ??? ????????   ???? ? ?? ???????? ?
This one I will translate, freely, into German:
"Was kann man machen in M?ssen?
Nur lachen, nicht k?ssen."

P.P.S.
Did anyone ever try to transcribe into Sanskrit -- into Devanagari -- the
German "?" or French "u" or Dutch "uu"?
Max M?ller sanskritized his name simply as ????? ???? according to my
teacher Prof. Henk Bodewitz in order to suggest to his Indian readers that
he can bring them liberation, but in that way M.M. skipped the problem of
the transcription of this phoneme that is absent in Sanskrit and in Hindi
and in most other Indian languages I know of (but a similar sound is there
in Tibetan, if I'm not mistaken).


On Sat, 28 Mar 2020 at 09:51, Jean-Luc Chevillard via INDOLOGY <
indology at list.indology.info> wrote:

> ???????????? ????? ???? ????????
> ????? ???????? ????????? ???????? ?????
> ????? ????????????? ??? ???????????.
>
> "/Avai-y-a?akku/ is, if well examined, one's modest expression to all to
> discriminate what is good in his unworthy sayings and take it"
>
>   (1936 translation of Tolk?ppiyam Poru?atik?ram 419 by P.S. Subrahmanya
> Sastri, as read on p.180 in the 2002 reprint by the Kuppuswami Sastri
> Research Institute, Chennai)
>
> -- Jean-Luc Chevillard (confined in M?ssen, Schleswig-Holstein)
>
> https://twitter.com/JLC1956
>
> https://tst.hypotheses.org/author/jlch
>
> https://www.google.de/maps/@53.49484,10.57238,19z
>
>
>
> On 27/03/2020 19:28, rainer stuhrmann via INDOLOGY wrote:
> > "Practising Sanskrit as the Epitome of laughableness"
> >
> > Cheers
> >
> > Rainer
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > INDOLOGY mailing list
> > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
> > committee)
> > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options
> or
> > unsubscribe)
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
> committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
> unsubscribe)
>


-- 

*Jan E.M. Houben*

Directeur d'?tudes, Professor of South Asian History and Philology

*Sources et histoire de la tradition sanskrite*

?cole Pratique des Hautes ?tudes (EPHE, Paris Sciences et Lettres)

*Sciences historiques et philologiques *

*johannes.houben [at] ephe.psl.eu <johannes.houben at ephe.psl.eu>*

*https://ephe-sorbonne.academia.edu/JanEMHouben
<https://ephe-sorbonne.academia.edu/JanEMHouben>*


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From mkapstei at uchicago.edu  Sun Mar 29 08:35:01 2020
From: mkapstei at uchicago.edu (Matthew Kapstein)
Date: Sun, 29 Mar 20 08:35:01 +0000
Subject: [INDOLOGY] (still) no distraction from the coronavirus...
In-Reply-To: <CAGCGLoBi1q2hNpVZzvwgkx0SkEw5u5FF7S=1p+ZSqtSb-wH-VA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <DM6PR11MB4059CA4C39301F8EE559F228A1CA0@DM6PR11MB4059.namprd11.prod.outlook.com>

Dear Jan,

On your pps:

In Tibetan ? and ? occur contextually In some dialects, but are not specifically represented in the script.

Matthew

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________________________________
From: INDOLOGY <indology-bounces at list.indology.info> on behalf of Jan E.M. Houben via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info>
Sent: Sunday, March 29, 2020 10:20:05 AM
To: Jean-Luc Chevillard <jean-luc.chevillard at univ-paris-diderot.fr>
Cc: Indology <indology at list.indology.info>
Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] (still) no distraction from the coronavirus...

Dear Jean-Luc,
This is as fascinating as it is puzzling.
Have the translations of (parts of) the Tolk?ppiyam by K. Zvelebil ever been published?
See his announcement of a translation in his The Smile Of Murugan, Leiden, 1973, p. 131.
Stay healthy and well in M?ssen,
Jan

P.S.
for the children in M?ssen, during the corona-crisis:

??????????????? ??? ????????   ???? ? ?? ???????? ?

This one I will translate, freely, into German:
"Was kann man machen in M?ssen?
Nur lachen, nicht k?ssen."

P.P.S.
Did anyone ever try to transcribe into Sanskrit -- into Devanagari -- the German "?" or French "u" or Dutch "uu"?
Max M?ller sanskritized his name simply as ????? ???? according to my teacher Prof. Henk Bodewitz in order to suggest to his Indian readers that he can bring them liberation, but in that way M.M. skipped the problem of the transcription of this phoneme that is absent in Sanskrit and in Hindi and in most other Indian languages I know of (but a similar sound is there in Tibetan, if I'm not mistaken).


On Sat, 28 Mar 2020 at 09:51, Jean-Luc Chevillard via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info<mailto:indology at list.indology.info>> wrote:
???????????? ????? ???? ????????
????? ???????? ????????? ???????? ?????
????? ????????????? ??? ???????????.

"/Avai-y-a?akku/ is, if well examined, one's modest expression to all to
discriminate what is good in his unworthy sayings and take it"

  (1936 translation of Tolk?ppiyam Poru?atik?ram 419 by P.S. Subrahmanya
Sastri, as read on p.180 in the 2002 reprint by the Kuppuswami Sastri
Research Institute, Chennai)

-- Jean-Luc Chevillard (confined in M?ssen, Schleswig-Holstein)

https://twitter.com/JLC1956

https://tst.hypotheses.org/author/jlch

https://www.google.de/maps/@53.49484,10.57238,19z



On 27/03/2020 19:28, rainer stuhrmann via INDOLOGY wrote:
> "Practising Sanskrit as the Epitome of laughableness"
>
> Cheers
>
> Rainer
>
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info<mailto:INDOLOGY at list.indology.info>
> indology-owner at list.indology.info<mailto:indology-owner at list.indology.info> (messages to the list's managing
> committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
> unsubscribe)


_______________________________________________
INDOLOGY mailing list
INDOLOGY at list.indology.info<mailto:INDOLOGY at list.indology.info>
indology-owner at list.indology.info<mailto:indology-owner at list.indology.info> (messages to the list's managing committee)
http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe)


--

Jan E.M. Houben

Directeur d'?tudes, Professor of South Asian History and Philology

Sources et histoire de la tradition sanskrite

?cole Pratique des Hautes ?tudes (EPHE, Paris Sciences et Lettres)

Sciences historiques et philologiques

johannes.houben [at] ephe.psl.eu<mailto:johannes.houben at ephe.psl.eu>

https://ephe-sorbonne.academia.edu/JanEMHouben


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From jean-luc.chevillard at univ-paris-diderot.fr  Sun Mar 29 09:44:49 2020
From: jean-luc.chevillard at univ-paris-diderot.fr (Jean-Luc Chevillard)
Date: Sun, 29 Mar 20 11:44:49 +0200
Subject: [INDOLOGY] (still) no distraction from the coronavirus...
In-Reply-To: <CAGCGLoBi1q2hNpVZzvwgkx0SkEw5u5FF7S=1p+ZSqtSb-wH-VA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <175a5624-3397-1cf0-b9ff-d55186fcb545@univ-paris-diderot.fr>

On 29/03/2020 10:20, Jan E.M. Houben wrote:
> Dear Jean-Luc,
> This is as fascinating as it is puzzling.

Dear Jan,

here is an example of avai-y-a?akkam, taken from the V?rac??iyam, with 
the (unpublished) expanded English rendering by the late scholar T.S. 
Gangadharan

_?yu? ku?attava l?kita? pakka lakattiya?k??
??yum puva?ik kiyampiya ta??ami ???kuraikka
n?yu mu?aiy? ve?i?karu ?a?ce??a n??vicumpil
_?yum pa?akku mita?ke? kol?collu m?nti?aiy?.


The Apology (Avai-y-a?akkam)

If I am questioned: "Can you speak on that Tamil grammar, the work 
wrought for the benefit of them that live in the world where abides his 
immortal fame, the work which is so cooling to the mind, the work of 
Akattiya? who is endowed with clarified intellect, the work of the ch?la 
(pupil) of Aval?ka? whose cultural attainment is hailed by many 
discerning scholars", I will answer thus: "The fly too wings the 
spacious sky expanse where flies the Brahminy kite! In this is the 
fitness of things? What does the world say? (Does the world approve of 
this?) If this can pass muster, so can my work also."
[reproduced VERBATIM, without trying to do further investigations]

Concerning Zvelebil's Tolk?ppiyam translation, it appeared in small 
sections in the JTS but he does not seem to have finished it.

Here is what is available (extracted from the bibliography in my Ph.D. 
thesis):

Zvelebil Kamil, 1972-1975, ?Tolk?ppiyam E?uttatik?ram?, Journal of Tamil
Studies, n? 1, p. 43-60 [chap. 1 ? 3]; n? 2, p. 13-29 [chap. 4 ? 6]; n? 
3, p. 17-27 [chap. 7]; n? 4, p. 13-23 [chap. 8]; n? 5, p. 34-36 [chap. 9
(14 sutras)]; n? 7, p. 62-66 [chap. 9 (42 sutras)]; n? 8, p. 8-11 [chap. 
9 (21 sutras)], Madras, International Institute of Tamil Studies 
[traduction en anglais du premier livre du tolk.].

Zvelebil Kamil, 1978-1985, ?Tolk?ppiyam Collatik?ram?, Journal of Tamil
Studies, n? 13, p. 79-86 [chap. 1 (30 sutras)]; n? 20, p. 5-14 [chap. 1
(31 sutras)]; n? 21, p. 9-19 [chap. 2]; n? 28, p. 67-80 [chap. 3], 
Madras, International Institute of Tamil Studies [traduction en anglais 
du second livre du Tolk. qui couvre pour l'instant les trois premiers 
chapitres]

Best wishes to you too

????????

-- Jean-Luc (spontaneously rendered in Tamil script as ???? ?????? 
????????? inside a "d?dicace" written on the title page of a book 
(?????????????, ???? ?????????????????) gifted to me on 25-6-2000 by my 
long-time Pondich?ry friend ?.??????????, whom I have known since july 
1981; as you can see, French "Luc" becomes "??????" [l?yk]

https://twitter.com/JLC1956

https://tst.hypotheses.org/author/jlch

https://www.google.de/maps/@53.49484,10.57238,19z



> Have the translations of (parts of) the?Tolk?ppiyam by K. Zvelebil ever 
> been published?
> See his announcement of a translation in his /The Smile//?Of Murugan/, 
> Leiden, 1973, p. 131.
> Stay healthy and well in M?ssen,
> Jan
> 
> P.S.
> for the children in M?ssen, during the corona-crisis:
> 
> ??????????????? ??? ?????????? ???? ? ?? ???????? ?
> 
> This one I will translate, freely, into German:
> "Was kann man machen in M?ssen?
> Nur lachen, nicht k?ssen."
> 
> P.P.S.
> Did anyone ever try to transcribe into Sanskrit -- into Devanagari -- 
> the German "?" or French "u" or Dutch "uu"?
> Max M?ller sanskritized his name simply as ????? ?????according to my 
> teacher Prof. Henk Bodewitz in order to suggest to his Indian readers 
> that he can bring them liberation, but in that way M.M. skipped the 
> problem of the transcription of this phoneme that is absent in Sanskrit 
> and in Hindi and in most other Indian languages I know of (but a similar 
> sound is there in Tibetan, if I'm not mistaken).
> 
> 
> On Sat, 28 Mar 2020 at 09:51, Jean-Luc Chevillard via INDOLOGY 
> <indology at list.indology.info <mailto:indology at list.indology.info>> wrote:
> 
>     ???????????? ????? ???? ????????
>     ????? ???????? ????????? ???????? ?????
>     ????? ????????????? ??? ???????????.
> 
>     "/Avai-y-a?akku/ is, if well examined, one's modest expression to
>     all to
>     discriminate what is good in his unworthy sayings and take it"
> 
>      ? (1936 translation of Tolk?ppiyam Poru?atik?ram 419 by P.S.
>     Subrahmanya
>     Sastri, as read on p.180 in the 2002 reprint by the Kuppuswami Sastri
>     Research Institute, Chennai)
> 
>     -- Jean-Luc Chevillard (confined in M?ssen, Schleswig-Holstein)
> 
>     https://twitter.com/JLC1956
> 
>     https://tst.hypotheses.org/author/jlch
> 
>     https://www.google.de/maps/@53.49484,10.57238,19z
> 
> 
> 
>     On 27/03/2020 19:28, rainer stuhrmann via INDOLOGY wrote:
>      > "Practising Sanskrit as the Epitome of laughableness"
>      >
>      > Cheers
>      >
>      > Rainer
>      >
>      > _______________________________________________
>      > INDOLOGY mailing list
>      > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info <mailto:INDOLOGY at list.indology.info>
>      > indology-owner at list.indology.info
>     <mailto:indology-owner at list.indology.info> (messages to the list's
>     managing
>      > committee)
>      > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list
>     options or
>      > unsubscribe)
> 
> 
>     _______________________________________________
>     INDOLOGY mailing list
>     INDOLOGY at list.indology.info <mailto:INDOLOGY at list.indology.info>
>     indology-owner at list.indology.info
>     <mailto:indology-owner at list.indology.info> (messages to the list's
>     managing committee)
>     http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list
>     options or unsubscribe)
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> 
> *Jan E.M. Houben*
> 
> Directeur d'?tudes, Professor of South Asian History and Philology
> 
> /Sources et histoire de la tradition sanskrite/
> 
> ?cole Pratique des Hautes ?tudes (EPHE, Paris Sciences et Lettres)
> 
> /*Sciences historiques et philologiques */
> 
> /johannes.houben [at] ephe.psl.eu <mailto:johannes.houben at ephe.psl.eu>/
> 
> /https://ephe-sorbonne.academia.edu/JanEMHouben/
> 






From vbd203 at googlemail.com  Sun Mar 29 11:27:06 2020
From: vbd203 at googlemail.com (victor davella)
Date: Sun, 29 Mar 20 13:27:06 +0200
Subject: =?utf-8?Q?[INDOLOGY]_The_seven_trees_R=C4=81ma_shot?=
Message-ID: <CAETY2G0u_f0RYDvqNW=k_K+pdwPOp7EdXU8j7prU9anVEkeUpQ@mail.gmail.com>

Dear All,

Has any research been done on the name of the seven trees R?ma shoot in R
4.12? It seems as though this is one of those text-critical issues that is
almost impossible to decide: ??la-s?la-t?la. I'm more or less aware of all
that the lexicographers have to say on the matter (??la is prescribed by
Mahe?vara but commentators on the Amarako?a 2.4.know both s?la and ??la,
etc.). I am working on a passage where more or the less the same variants
are available as in R 4.12 and was intrigued by the fact that ?1, our
oldest dated witness (Samvat 1076/1020 CE) has t?la throughout. Other
Devan?gar? MSS and the ??rada MS share it as well, so it seems that it was
intentional and not just a confusion of ??/??.

A brief note on Sanskrit composition and poetic criticism since this is a
topic I have been occupied with for years now: if we wish to compose
according to the standards as reported in sources spanning some 1600 years
and very much still current today, it is absolutely necessary to adhere to
grammatically correct Sanskrit and the rules of meter (the classical ??oka
is not quite as easy as it seems). Although most great poets have used
forms that have been subject to criticism and endless debate (this is
especially true of K?lid?sa but even M?gha's famed verse on the bells
[4.20] drives grammarians mad), it is best for beginners to stick with
well-attested grammatical forms and avoid those found in the Epics. Epic
forms are of course not wrong, but my impression is that we, as non-??is,
have not business using them and poems containing them would be readily
dismissed especially at the beginning stages of composition.  One of the
benefits of presenting poetry or other work to the sabh? is to receive
feedback for improvement. This has always been the case. Yet criticism and
erudition can come in many forms. I always think of Pt. A?janeya ?arma's
response to my question about the meaning of "fragrant gold" (to
paraphrase): any pa??it is of course gold, but a kind pa??it is fragrant
gold.

All the Best,
Victor


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From arfalques at cantab.net  Sun Mar 29 11:33:28 2020
From: arfalques at cantab.net (=?utf-8?Q?Aleix_Ruiz_Falqu=C3=A9s?=)
Date: Sun, 29 Mar 20 13:33:28 +0200
Subject: [INDOLOGY] The study of Sanskrit as the epitome of uselessness
In-Reply-To: <CAOCtTAs7O80S2nJ5UBQLn=AAXLsWOKwTO0ujBhLZxujrkZ_6eA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAOCtTAsRSpt6NDevnzPUSpaRKiUKTCUk5JELkw=UcR6L4FwX+Q@mail.gmail.com>

Dear list members,

For those who could not see the attachment with the text regarding
Sanskrit, its useless, and Garc?a M?rquez, here it is. The Sanskrit primer
symbolises the uselessness of the bookshop and the spirit of the bookseller:

"The bookstore is the place where Aureliano Babilonia finds his Sanskrit
primer, and it is owned by a wise Catalan, or a Catalan sage, 'un sabio
catal?n', who arrived in Latin America as a refugee from what the narrator
laconically calls 'one of so many wars' [345: 367]. He is a former Classics
teacher and an instigator of learning which is both arcane and occasionally
functional, like Jos? Arcadio Buend?a?s curiosity. For the Catalan, 'wisdom
was worth nothing if it could not be used to invent a new way of preparing
chickpeas' [337: 357]. This is both a pose and a credo. The Catalan, like
Jos? Arcadio Buend?a, loves useless wisdom but likes to think of wisdom as
useful too. When Aureliano Babilonia first meets the Catalan he has two
drawers full of scribbled pages 'that in some way made ont think of
Melqu?ades' parchments' [345-346: 368]."

Best wishes,
Aleix


On Thu, 26 Mar 2020 at 18:59, Aleix Ruiz Falqu?s <arfalques at cantab.net>
wrote:

> This excellent thread reminded me of a passage from *Hundred Years of
> Solitude*. This is from M. Wood, *Gabriel Garc?a M?rquez: One Hundred
> Years of Solitude*, (CUP 1990).
>
> [image: image.png]
>
> Best wishes,
> Aleix
>
> On Thu, 26 Mar 2020 at 15:03, Christoph Emmrich via INDOLOGY <
> indology at list.indology.info> wrote:
>
>> MARCELLO   Steiner! Che fa qui?
>>
>> STEINER   E tu? Io sono di casa... Padre Franz mi ha dato un libro...
>>
>>
>> E mentre mostra un libro che ha sotto il braccio, accenna anche al
>> giovane e piccolo prete, che ? rimasto dove stava e segue la scena
>> sorridendo lievemente.
>>
>>
>> STEINER   ...che avevo cercato per tutta Roma. Una grammatica sanscrita.
>>
>>
>> E Steiner ride, come di uno scherzo.
>>
>>
>> From the script of *La dolce vita* (Italy, 1960), in: Federico Fellini,
>> Ennio Flaiano e Tullio Pinelli. *Quattro film. I vitelloni. La dolce
>> vita. Otto e mezzo. Giulietta degli spiriti**. *Torino: Einaudi, 1975,
>> p. 188.
>>
>>
>> [MARCELLO   Steiner! What are you doing here?
>>
>> STEINER   What about you? I am at home here... Father Franz gave me a
>> book...
>>
>> And, while displaying a book he is holding under his arm, he also points
>> at the young and short priest who has remained where he was and who has
>> been observing the scene with a faint smile.
>>
>> STEINER   ...which I had been looking for all across Rome. A Sanskrit
>> grammar.
>>
>> And Steiner laughs, as if about a joke.]
>>
>> With warm regards,
>> Christoph
>>
>>
>> ----
>>
>>
>>
>> Christoph Emmrich
>>
>> Associate Professor, Buddhist Studies
>> General Secretary, IABS
>>
>> Director, Centre for South Asian Studies
>>
>> at the Asian Institute, Munk School of Global Affairs and Public Policy
>>
>> Chair, Numata Program UofT/McMaster
>>
>> University of Toronto
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
>> committee)
>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
>> unsubscribe)
>>
>
>
> --
> Aleix Ruiz-Falqu?s
> Pali Lecturer
> Head of the Department of Pali and Languages
> Shan State Buddhist University
> Phaya Phyu, Taunggyi, Myanmar 140101
> (+95) 09428757648
>


-- 
Aleix Ruiz-Falqu?s
Pali Lecturer
Head of the Department of Pali and Languages
Shan State Buddhist University
Phaya Phyu, Taunggyi, Myanmar 140101
(+95) 09428757648


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From j.jurewicz at uw.edu.pl  Sun Mar 29 12:29:16 2020
From: j.jurewicz at uw.edu.pl (Joanna Jurewicz)
Date: Sun, 29 Mar 20 14:29:16 +0200
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Retroflexion and gender in viruses
In-Reply-To: <CAB3-dzcb7WuTyFrOiS11S1PY9-DFe-WaSM5bJkObwTTn__dUbA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAAPrgbooJT_Qk4f7z7CdS=86dW5oqCVEWsdVuYyJUwhkM45u7w@mail.gmail.com>

 ?????

As far as the type of the "n" is concerned.

When you speak "r", the tip of your tongue is almost in the place to say  "?".
Just move it a little bit back  and open you mouth when you speak "o", then
you will say "?"naturally. Then let it go to say dental "t". As I have
observed, in Sanskrit, the tip of the language is much more frequently kept
at the back of your mouth than in, e.g. in Polish (or in English, as it
seems to me). Here, it is more natural to allow the tip to go forth
immediately after "r", as if we already wanted to prepare it to say "t".
Thus for Polish speakers dental "n" is more natural.

I am also sure that it is masculine. Or neutral. Never female!

A very good training for isolation ?

Joanna


---

Prof. dr hab. Joanna Jurewicz

Katedra Azji Po?udniowej /Chair of South Asia

Wydzia? Orientalistyczny / Faculty of Oriental Studies

Uniwersytet Warszawski /University of Warsaw

ul. Krakowskie Przedmie?cie 26/28

00-927 Warszawa , Poland

Department of Linguistics and Modern Languages

College of Human Sciences

UNISA

Pretoria, RSA

Member of Academia Europaea

https://uw.academia.edu/JoannaJurewicz


niedz., 29 mar 2020 o 06:23 Madhav Deshpande via INDOLOGY <
indology at list.indology.info> napisa?(a):

> Dear Harry,
>
>      There are similar alternating usages found in Sanskrit as well and
> authorized by Panini, for example -
>
> ???????????????????? ?????
>
> ???????????? - ???? ??????? ???????? ??? ???????? ??????????? ? ?????????
> ????????????????? ????????? ???? ????? ???? ??????? ????????????? ?????
> ??????????, ??????????? ??????????, ??????????? ??????????? ?????????,
> ?????????? ????????, ?????????
>
> Madhav M. Deshpande
> Professor Emeritus, Sanskrit and Linguistics
> University of Michigan, Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA
> Senior Fellow, Oxford Center for Hindu Studies
>
> [Residence: Campbell, California, USA]
>
>
> On Sat, Mar 28, 2020 at 2:46 PM Harry Spier via INDOLOGY <
> indology at list.indology.info> wrote:
>
>>
>> Mathew Kapstein: ?????
>> Others ??????
>>
>>
>> On Sat, Mar 28, 2020 at 7:08 AM Matthew Kapstein via INDOLOGY <
>> indology at list.indology.info> wrote:
>>
>>> With so many mah?kavi-s on this list, you will have to forgive me this
>>> silly amateurism (with Tibetan translation):
>>>
>>> ???????????? ???????? ????????????????????
>>> ???????????? ?? ???? ????????????
>>>
>>> ?????????????????????????
>>>
>>> ????????????????????????
>>>
>>> ????????????????????????
>>>
>>> ??????????????????????????
>>>
>>>
>>> Matthew
>>>
>>> Matthew Kapstein
>>> Directeur d'?tudes, ?m?rite
>>> Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes, Paris
>>>
>>> Numata Visiting Professor of Buddhist Studies,
>>> The University of Chicago
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
>>> committee)
>>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options
>>> or unsubscribe)
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
>> committee)
>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
>> unsubscribe)
>>
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
> committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
> unsubscribe)
>


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From aparpola at gmail.com  Sun Mar 29 12:56:41 2020
From: aparpola at gmail.com (Asko Parpola)
Date: Sun, 29 Mar 20 15:56:41 +0300
Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_[INDOLOGY]_The_seven_trees_R=C4=81ma_shot?=
In-Reply-To: <CAETY2G0u_f0RYDvqNW=k_K+pdwPOp7EdXU8j7prU9anVEkeUpQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <71AB6BDF-8FF9-472D-9EFF-FB78376C23F6@gmail.com>

I have written the following on this topic in the joint paper by Asko Parpola & Juha Janhunen, ?On the Asiatic Wild Asses and Their Vernacular Names?, pp. 59-124 in: Toshiki Osada & Hitoshi Endo (eds.), Linguistics, Archaeology and the Human Part: Occasional Paper 12, Kyoto: Indus Project, Research Institute for Humanity and Nature, 2011; reprinted, pp. 59-124 in: Toshiki Osada & Hitoshi Endo (eds.), Current Studies on the Indus Civilization, vol. IX, New Delhi: Manohar, 2012.

Page 111, note 94. Another reason is Balar?ma?s great strength (bala-). The stem of the palmyra palm is hard as stone, and the Buddha as a young prince alone among several contestants was able to pierce seven palmyra palms that stood in a row with a single arrow (cf. Maha?vastu 2 p. 75-76 & Lalitavistara 2, p. 155; this episode of the Buddha's life is depicted both in cave 16 at Ajan?t?a? and in Borobud?ur, and the trees depicted are clearly palmyra palms). In Ra?ma?yan?a 4,11,47 - 4,12,9, Ra?ma performs the same feat. Many manuscripts here have ta?la instead of sa?la in the critical edition and Lefeber's translation (cf. Lefeber 1994: 77-78 and 224-226; sa?la is Shorea robusta). It is undoubtedly for such a reason that also Bhi?s?ma (cf. Maha?bha?rata 6,44,48) and Kr?s?n?a (Maha?bha?rata 16,4,5) are said to have the palmyra palm as the emblem on their banner. (See Syed 1990: 311-314 and 323-324 with Abb. 14.6-7.) 

With best wishes, Asko

> On 29 Mar 2020, at 14.27, victor davella via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info> wrote:
> 
> Dear All,
> 
> Has any research been done on the name of the seven trees R?ma shoot in R 4.12? It seems as though this is one of those text-critical issues that is almost impossible to decide: ??la-s?la-t?la. I'm more or less aware of all that the lexicographers have to say on the matter (??la is prescribed by Mahe?vara but commentators on the Amarako?a 2.4.know both s?la and ??la, etc.). I am working on a passage where more or the less the same variants are available as in R 4.12 and was intrigued by the fact that ?1, our oldest dated witness (Samvat 1076/1020 CE) has t?la throughout. Other Devan?gar? MSS and the ??rada MS share it as well, so it seems that it was intentional and not just a confusion of ??/??.
> 
> A brief note on Sanskrit composition and poetic criticism since this is a topic I have been occupied with for years now: if we wish to compose according to the standards as reported in sources spanning some 1600 years and very much still current today, it is absolutely necessary to adhere to grammatically correct Sanskrit and the rules of meter (the classical ??oka is not quite as easy as it seems). Although most great poets have used forms that have been subject to criticism and endless debate (this is especially true of K?lid?sa but even M?gha's famed verse on the bells [4.20] drives grammarians mad), it is best for beginners to stick with well-attested grammatical forms and avoid those found in the Epics. Epic forms are of course not wrong, but my impression is that we, as non-??is, have not business using them and poems containing them would be readily dismissed especially at the beginning stages of composition.  One of the benefits of presenting poetry or other work to the sabh? is to receive feedback for improvement. This has always been the case. Yet criticism and erudition can come in many forms. I always think of Pt. A?janeya ?arma's response to my question about the meaning of "fragrant gold" (to paraphrase): any pa??it is of course gold, but a kind pa??it is fragrant gold.
> 
> All the Best,
> Victor
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe)



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From mmdesh at umich.edu  Sun Mar 29 13:33:28 2020
From: mmdesh at umich.edu (Madhav Deshpande)
Date: Sun, 29 Mar 20 06:33:28 -0700
Subject: [INDOLOGY] A distraction fom the Coronavirus
Message-ID: <CAB3-dzfh2MKgEH9vVnOfHF5coOhDen1u=DBspzwcZ+GDCLy5wg@mail.gmail.com>

A distraction from the Coronavirus

??????? ? ?? ????? ??????? ?? ???????????? ?
????????????????????? ????????? ???? ??

Lakshmana said to Shurpanakha: ?O Shurpanakha, I am not going to touch your
nose and ears even with my sword. Come back after the Coronavirus goes
away.?

Madhav M. Deshpande
Professor Emeritus, Sanskrit and Linguistics
University of Michigan, Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA
Senior Fellow, Oxford Center for Hindu Studies

[Residence: Campbell, California, USA]


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From vasishtha.spier at gmail.com  Sun Mar 29 14:18:32 2020
From: vasishtha.spier at gmail.com (Harry Spier)
Date: Sun, 29 Mar 20 10:18:32 -0400
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Retroflexion and gender in viruses
In-Reply-To: <CAAPrgbooJT_Qk4f7z7CdS=86dW5oqCVEWsdVuYyJUwhkM45u7w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAJ3b0o_POL30d_i0aEkbBnnasPGgAvLhsa-kPJz91mJQ-Axk-Q@mail.gmail.com>

A new area of research.  The possibility of new research papers is endless
such as:
"Viral gender in sanskrit, a joint medical and linguistic study"
"Non-retroflexion, evidence of modern loan-words in sanskrit"
"Change and continuity in modern sanskrit discussion, ??????, ?????, ????? "
"Transmission of linguistic forms in sanskrit"

Harry Spier

On Sun, Mar 29, 2020 at 8:29 AM Joanna Jurewicz <j.jurewicz at uw.edu.pl>
wrote:

>  ?????
>
> As far as the type of the "n" is concerned.
>
> When you speak "r", the tip of your tongue is almost in the place to say
>  "?". Just move it a little bit back  and open you mouth when you speak
> "o", then you will say "?"naturally. Then let it go to say dental "t". As
> I have observed, in Sanskrit, the tip of the language is much more
> frequently kept at the back of your mouth than in, e.g. in Polish (or in
> English, as it seems to me). Here, it is more natural to allow the tip to
> go forth immediately after "r", as if we already wanted to prepare it to
> say "t". Thus for Polish speakers dental "n" is more natural.
>
> I am also sure that it is masculine. Or neutral. Never female!
>
> A very good training for isolation ?
>
> Joanna
>
>
> ---
>
> Prof. dr hab. Joanna Jurewicz
>
> Katedra Azji Po?udniowej /Chair of South Asia
>
> Wydzia? Orientalistyczny / Faculty of Oriental Studies
>
> Uniwersytet Warszawski /University of Warsaw
>
> ul. Krakowskie Przedmie?cie 26/28
>
> 00-927 Warszawa , Poland
>
> Department of Linguistics and Modern Languages
>
> College of Human Sciences
>
> UNISA
>
> Pretoria, RSA
>
> Member of Academia Europaea
>
> https://uw.academia.edu/JoannaJurewicz
>
>
> niedz., 29 mar 2020 o 06:23 Madhav Deshpande via INDOLOGY <
> indology at list.indology.info> napisa?(a):
>
>> Dear Harry,
>>
>>      There are similar alternating usages found in Sanskrit as well and
>> authorized by Panini, for example -
>>
>> ???????????????????? ?????
>>
>> ???????????? - ???? ??????? ???????? ??? ???????? ??????????? ? ?????????
>> ????????????????? ????????? ???? ????? ???? ??????? ????????????? ?????
>> ??????????, ??????????? ??????????, ??????????? ??????????? ?????????,
>> ?????????? ????????, ?????????
>>
>> Madhav M. Deshpande
>> Professor Emeritus, Sanskrit and Linguistics
>> University of Michigan, Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA
>> Senior Fellow, Oxford Center for Hindu Studies
>>
>> [Residence: Campbell, California, USA]
>>
>>
>> On Sat, Mar 28, 2020 at 2:46 PM Harry Spier via INDOLOGY <
>> indology at list.indology.info> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> Mathew Kapstein: ?????
>>> Others ??????
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sat, Mar 28, 2020 at 7:08 AM Matthew Kapstein via INDOLOGY <
>>> indology at list.indology.info> wrote:
>>>
>>>> With so many mah?kavi-s on this list, you will have to forgive me this
>>>> silly amateurism (with Tibetan translation):
>>>>
>>>> ???????????? ???????? ????????????????????
>>>> ???????????? ?? ???? ????????????
>>>>
>>>> ?????????????????????????
>>>>
>>>> ????????????????????????
>>>>
>>>> ????????????????????????
>>>>
>>>> ??????????????????????????
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Matthew
>>>>
>>>> Matthew Kapstein
>>>> Directeur d'?tudes, ?m?rite
>>>> Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes, Paris
>>>>
>>>> Numata Visiting Professor of Buddhist Studies,
>>>> The University of Chicago
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>>>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>>>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
>>>> committee)
>>>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options
>>>> or unsubscribe)
>>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
>>> committee)
>>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options
>>> or unsubscribe)
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
>> committee)
>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
>> unsubscribe)
>>
>


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From mailmealakendudas at rediffmail.com  Sun Mar 29 15:15:02 2020
From: mailmealakendudas at rediffmail.com (alakendu das)
Date: Sun, 29 Mar 20 15:15:02 +0000
Subject: [INDOLOGY] On Corona
Message-ID: <20200329151502.25916.qmail@f6mail-235-206.rediffmail.com>

We are all passing through hard times.Having faith on human endeavour, let us make ourselves more aware&nbsp; about our planet and put an end to the Corona Virus Pandemic.A firm belief , that We shall Overcome . Heartiest condolences for those who have lost their lives&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;Alakendu Das.

A



Sent from RediffmailNG on Android


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From j.jurewicz at uw.edu.pl  Sun Mar 29 17:54:31 2020
From: j.jurewicz at uw.edu.pl (Joanna Jurewicz)
Date: Sun, 29 Mar 20 19:54:31 +0200
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Retroflexion and gender in viruses
In-Reply-To: <CAEjEOsAx=wANc91EE1w2AV+dFPh1c6zTD8r4YuV_vhCr1z7x1A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAAPrgboXgqSkyGpVk41iEubh2Qb=eHDxKthb-GVmQkVU5Bp8ag@mail.gmail.com>

Maybe a little panel on those fascinating topics at the WCS in Canberra?

---

Prof. dr hab. Joanna Jurewicz

Katedra Azji Po?udniowej /Chair of South Asia

Wydzia? Orientalistyczny / Faculty of Oriental Studies

Uniwersytet Warszawski /University of Warsaw

ul. Krakowskie Przedmie?cie 26/28

00-927 Warszawa , Poland

Department of Linguistics and Modern Languages

College of Human Sciences

UNISA

Pretoria, RSA

Member of Academia Europaea

https://uw.academia.edu/JoannaJurewicz


niedz., 29 mar 2020 o 16:58 Antonia Ruppel <
antonia.ruppel at ling-phil.ox.ac.uk> napisa?(a):

> For what it's worth: viSa-, the cognate of Latin virus, is mostly neuter.
>
> Antonia
>
> On Sun, 29 Mar 2020, 15:19 Harry Spier via INDOLOGY, <
> indology at list.indology.info> wrote:
>
>> A new area of research.  The possibility of new research papers is
>> endless such as:
>> "Viral gender in sanskrit, a joint medical and linguistic study"
>> "Non-retroflexion, evidence of modern loan-words in sanskrit"
>> "Change and continuity in modern sanskrit discussion, ??????, ?????, ?????
>> "
>> "Transmission of linguistic forms in sanskrit"
>>
>> Harry Spier
>>
>> On Sun, Mar 29, 2020 at 8:29 AM Joanna Jurewicz <j.jurewicz at uw.edu.pl>
>> wrote:
>>
>>>  ?????
>>>
>>> As far as the type of the "n" is concerned.
>>>
>>> When you speak "r", the tip of your tongue is almost in the place to
>>> say  "?". Just move it a little bit back  and open you mouth when you
>>> speak "o", then you will say "?"naturally. Then let it go to say dental
>>> "t". As I have observed, in Sanskrit, the tip of the language is much more
>>> frequently kept at the back of your mouth than in, e.g. in Polish (or in
>>> English, as it seems to me). Here, it is more natural to allow the tip to
>>> go forth immediately after "r", as if we already wanted to prepare it to
>>> say "t". Thus for Polish speakers dental "n" is more natural.
>>>
>>> I am also sure that it is masculine. Or neutral. Never female!
>>>
>>> A very good training for isolation ?
>>>
>>> Joanna
>>>
>>>
>>> ---
>>>
>>> Prof. dr hab. Joanna Jurewicz
>>>
>>> Katedra Azji Po?udniowej /Chair of South Asia
>>>
>>> Wydzia? Orientalistyczny / Faculty of Oriental Studies
>>>
>>> Uniwersytet Warszawski /University of Warsaw
>>>
>>> ul. Krakowskie Przedmie?cie 26/28
>>>
>>> 00-927 Warszawa , Poland
>>>
>>> Department of Linguistics and Modern Languages
>>>
>>> College of Human Sciences
>>>
>>> UNISA
>>>
>>> Pretoria, RSA
>>>
>>> Member of Academia Europaea
>>>
>>> https://uw.academia.edu/JoannaJurewicz
>>>
>>>
>>> niedz., 29 mar 2020 o 06:23 Madhav Deshpande via INDOLOGY <
>>> indology at list.indology.info> napisa?(a):
>>>
>>>> Dear Harry,
>>>>
>>>>      There are similar alternating usages found in Sanskrit as well and
>>>> authorized by Panini, for example -
>>>>
>>>> ???????????????????? ?????
>>>>
>>>> ???????????? - ???? ??????? ???????? ??? ???????? ??????????? ?
>>>> ????????? ????????????????? ????????? ???? ????? ???? ??????? ?????????????
>>>> ????? ??????????, ??????????? ??????????, ??????????? ???????????
>>>> ?????????, ?????????? ????????, ?????????
>>>>
>>>> Madhav M. Deshpande
>>>> Professor Emeritus, Sanskrit and Linguistics
>>>> University of Michigan, Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA
>>>> Senior Fellow, Oxford Center for Hindu Studies
>>>>
>>>> [Residence: Campbell, California, USA]
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Sat, Mar 28, 2020 at 2:46 PM Harry Spier via INDOLOGY <
>>>> indology at list.indology.info> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Mathew Kapstein: ?????
>>>>> Others ??????
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Sat, Mar 28, 2020 at 7:08 AM Matthew Kapstein via INDOLOGY <
>>>>> indology at list.indology.info> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> With so many mah?kavi-s on this list, you will have to forgive me
>>>>>> this silly amateurism (with Tibetan translation):
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ???????????? ???????? ????????????????????
>>>>>> ???????????? ?? ???? ????????????
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ?????????????????????????
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ????????????????????????
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ????????????????????????
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ??????????????????????????
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Matthew
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Matthew Kapstein
>>>>>> Directeur d'?tudes, ?m?rite
>>>>>> Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes, Paris
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Numata Visiting Professor of Buddhist Studies,
>>>>>> The University of Chicago
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>>>>>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>>>>>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
>>>>>> committee)
>>>>>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list
>>>>>> options or unsubscribe)
>>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>>>>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>>>>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
>>>>> committee)
>>>>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options
>>>>> or unsubscribe)
>>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>>>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>>>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
>>>> committee)
>>>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options
>>>> or unsubscribe)
>>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
>> committee)
>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
>> unsubscribe)
>>
>


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From j.jurewicz at uw.edu.pl  Sun Mar 29 17:54:53 2020
From: j.jurewicz at uw.edu.pl (Joanna Jurewicz)
Date: Sun, 29 Mar 20 19:54:53 +0200
Subject: [INDOLOGY] A distraction fom the Coronavirus
In-Reply-To: <CAB3-dzfh2MKgEH9vVnOfHF5coOhDen1u=DBspzwcZ+GDCLy5wg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAAPrgbpQwJf+SWseRQz_+Aixck_iQ0cr73bm1whf-PwAbk3xfQ@mail.gmail.com>

Wonderful!

---

Prof. dr hab. Joanna Jurewicz

Katedra Azji Po?udniowej /Chair of South Asia

Wydzia? Orientalistyczny / Faculty of Oriental Studies

Uniwersytet Warszawski /University of Warsaw

ul. Krakowskie Przedmie?cie 26/28

00-927 Warszawa , Poland

Department of Linguistics and Modern Languages

College of Human Sciences

UNISA

Pretoria, RSA

Member of Academia Europaea

https://uw.academia.edu/JoannaJurewicz


niedz., 29 mar 2020 o 15:34 Madhav Deshpande via INDOLOGY <
indology at list.indology.info> napisa?(a):

> A distraction from the Coronavirus
>
> ??????? ? ?? ????? ??????? ?? ???????????? ?
> ????????????????????? ????????? ???? ??
>
> Lakshmana said to Shurpanakha: ?O Shurpanakha, I am not going to touch
> your nose and ears even with my sword. Come back after the Coronavirus goes
> away.?
>
> Madhav M. Deshpande
> Professor Emeritus, Sanskrit and Linguistics
> University of Michigan, Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA
> Senior Fellow, Oxford Center for Hindu Studies
>
> [Residence: Campbell, California, USA]
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
> committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
> unsubscribe)
>


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From christian.ferstl at univie.ac.at  Sun Mar 29 18:53:42 2020
From: christian.ferstl at univie.ac.at (Christian Ferstl)
Date: Sun, 29 Mar 20 20:53:42 +0200
Subject: [INDOLOGY] A distraction fom the Coronavirus
In-Reply-To: <CAB3-dzfh2MKgEH9vVnOfHF5coOhDen1u=DBspzwcZ+GDCLy5wg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1a6054c92633a95f1f672aa09d4c9da9@univie.ac.at>

A face mask would seem odd in Dandaka forest, wouldn't it?

??????????? ??????? ??????? ????????  ?
?????? ????? ??????? ????? ?????????? ?

As if it was the Moon hidden behind the clouds in an unseasonable 
monsoon,
Rama beheld Sitas face concealed by a mask.

Christian Ferstl


Am 29.03.2020 15:33, schrieb Madhav Deshpande via INDOLOGY:
> A distraction from the Coronavirus
> 
> ??????? ? ?? ????? ???????
> ?? ???????????? ?
> 
> ?????????????????????
> ????????? ???? ??
> 
> Lakshmana said to Shurpanakha: ?O Shurpanakha, I am not going to
> touch your nose and ears even with my sword. Come back after the
> Coronavirus goes away.?
> 
> Madhav M. Deshpande
> Professor Emeritus, Sanskrit and Linguistics
> University of Michigan, Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA
> Senior Fellow, Oxford Center for Hindu Studies
> 
> [Residence: Campbell, California, USA]
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing 
> committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options
> or unsubscribe)





From nagarajpaturi at gmail.com  Sun Mar 29 19:22:54 2020
From: nagarajpaturi at gmail.com (Nagaraj Paturi)
Date: Mon, 30 Mar 20 00:52:54 +0530
Subject: [INDOLOGY] A distraction fom the Coronavirus
In-Reply-To: <1a6054c92633a95f1f672aa09d4c9da9@univie.ac.at>
Message-ID: <CAJGj9eYV-LeLPVhVR+21zUyJ19xmAW+2s8zsgDjv7r0Gu72aAQ@mail.gmail.com>

Beutiful upamaa.

On Mon, Mar 30, 2020, 12:24 AM Christian Ferstl via INDOLOGY <
indology at list.indology.info> wrote:

> A face mask would seem odd in Dandaka forest, wouldn't it?
>
> ??????????? ??????? ??????? ????????  ?
> ?????? ????? ??????? ????? ?????????? ?
>
> As if it was the Moon hidden behind the clouds in an unseasonable
> monsoon,
> Rama beheld Sitas face concealed by a mask.
>
> Christian Ferstl
>
>
> Am 29.03.2020 15:33, schrieb Madhav Deshpande via INDOLOGY:
> > A distraction from the Coronavirus
> >
> > ??????? ? ?? ????? ???????
> > ?? ???????????? ?
> >
> > ?????????????????????
> > ????????? ???? ??
> >
> > Lakshmana said to Shurpanakha: ?O Shurpanakha, I am not going to
> > touch your nose and ears even with my sword. Come back after the
> > Coronavirus goes away.?
> >
> > Madhav M. Deshpande
> > Professor Emeritus, Sanskrit and Linguistics
> > University of Michigan, Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA
> > Senior Fellow, Oxford Center for Hindu Studies
> >
> > [Residence: Campbell, California, USA]
> > _______________________________________________
> > INDOLOGY mailing list
> > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
> > committee)
> > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options
> > or unsubscribe)
>
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
> committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
> unsubscribe)
>


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From dnreigle at gmail.com  Sun Mar 29 19:33:11 2020
From: dnreigle at gmail.com (David and Nancy Reigle)
Date: Sun, 29 Mar 20 13:33:11 -0600
Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_[INDOLOGY]_pr=C4=81=E1=B9=87=C4=81y=C4=81ma_query?=
In-Reply-To: <294215168.1526419.1585221637852@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <CAPAZekaAi=2GxcwdzbhnapzudngFgwunvFYehe=cP00S6tc+zQ@mail.gmail.com>

The practice in the Tibetan tradition that Dean referred to is called
lung-gom, and a practitioner of it is a lung-gom-pa. If you do a search for
these terms you will find what little is known about it. I assume that the
Tibetan spelling is rlung sgom, where rlung means pr??a (or v?yu), and sgom
means meditation or contemplation or cultivation (bh?van?).

Best regards,

David Reigle
Colorado, U.S.A.

On Thu, Mar 26, 2020 at 5:21 AM Dean Michael Anderson via INDOLOGY <
indology at list.indology.info> wrote:

> There is a similar well-known practice in the Tibetan tradition. I'll let
> our Tibetan experts elaborate.
>
> There is also a well-known interaction going back centuries between Hindu
> yogis and Tibetan Buddhist yogis - they even revere some of the same
> adepts, especially in the Nath traditions. Among the actual yogic
> practitioners, the separation between Hinduism and Buddhism is not always
> so clear cut (the same is often true with Islamic fakirs and Sikhs as well).
>
> So, I'd say, yes, there are similarities -- among the practitioners many
> would even go farther and say they are the same. I'm not aware of most of
> the scholarly literature on the subject. I'd be interested in what others
> might provide.
>
> Best,
>
> Dean
>
> On Thursday, March 26, 2020, 1:57:01 PM GMT+5:30, patrick mccartney via
> INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info> wrote:
>
>
> Dear Friends,
>
> there is a particular breath work for cultivating endurance amongst the
> training manuals of Ninjas and proponents of the syncretic mountain
> asceticism, known as shugend?, which is called the "mountaineer's breath"
> (??????, *tozan-ka no koky?*). It has an interesting paradiddle-like
> ratio of inhalation/exhalation that supposedly can extend one's ability to
> stealthily run across mountains at night, as long as the individual
> breathed in this complicated way while running... I've recently tried
> it...I guess, I need more practice.
> Some stories say that a high-level *ninjutsu-sha* could run up to 200kms
> in a day! These extend into the stories of the "marathon monks" that, as
> part of their spiritual duty would run a marathon, everyday for days on
> end. Life without Netflix is unbounded with potential, it seems.
>
>
> *Anyways, the rhythmic pattern for this breath, is: *
> *1 round = 1-inhalation, 2-exhalations, 1-inhalation, 1-exhalation,
> 2-inhalations, 1-exhalation*
>
> *I'm wondering if this is similar to any ha?ha yogic pr???y?ma? *
>
> I'm not implying any causal link, necessarily. I leave that to others,
> who, in common parlance across various social media make consonant claims.
> Interestingly, a re-orientalized and imagined mythical Ninja culture is
> framed as being able to help reduce stress and tension, make people fitter,
> run for the train... and generally more able to endure more of life's
> problems, and, also have a transformative potential related to the twins of
> transglobal yoga's popularity: 1) accumulate power(s) and 2) achieve moral
> reformation.
>
> All the best,
>
> ????? ???????
> Patrick McCartney, PhD
> Research Affiliate - Organization for Identity and Cultural Development
> (OICD), Kyoto
> Research Associate - Nanzan University Anthropological Institute, Nagoya,
> Japan
> Visiting Fellow - South and South-east Asian Studies
> Department, Australian National University
> Member - South Asia Research Institute (SARI), Australian National
> University
>
> Skype / Zoom - psdmccartney
> Phone + Whatsapp + Line:  +61410644259
> Twitter - @psdmccartney @yogascapesinjap
>  Yogascapes in Japan <http://yogascapes.weebly.com/> Academia
> <https://patrickmccartney.academia.edu/> Linkedin
> <https://www.linkedin.com/profile/view?id=241756978&trk=nav_responsive_tab_profile>
>  Modern Yoga Research <http://www.modernyogaresearch.org/events/>
>
> *bodhap?rvam calema* ;-)
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>    -
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
> committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
> unsubscribe)
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
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> committee)
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> unsubscribe)
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From mmdesh at umich.edu  Sun Mar 29 19:46:06 2020
From: mmdesh at umich.edu (Madhav Deshpande)
Date: Sun, 29 Mar 20 12:46:06 -0700
Subject: [INDOLOGY] A distraction fom the Coronavirus
In-Reply-To: <1a6054c92633a95f1f672aa09d4c9da9@univie.ac.at>
Message-ID: <CAB3-dzfLZ=kMXGnPZynH=a6tsOY2xNY_4Z50Jt-QpzJrGL1Wtw@mail.gmail.com>

Cristian,

     This is truly beautiful. Not exactly a mask, but covering one's face
or head is referred to as ????????. Keep on writing.

Madhav M. Deshpande
Professor Emeritus, Sanskrit and Linguistics
University of Michigan, Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA
Senior Fellow, Oxford Center for Hindu Studies

[Residence: Campbell, California, USA]


On Sun, Mar 29, 2020 at 11:53 AM Christian Ferstl <
christian.ferstl at univie.ac.at> wrote:

> A face mask would seem odd in Dandaka forest, wouldn't it?
>
> ??????????? ??????? ??????? ????????  ?
> ?????? ????? ??????? ????? ?????????? ?
>
> As if it was the Moon hidden behind the clouds in an unseasonable
> monsoon,
> Rama beheld Sitas face concealed by a mask.
>
> Christian Ferstl
>
>
> Am 29.03.2020 15:33, schrieb Madhav Deshpande via INDOLOGY:
> > A distraction from the Coronavirus
> >
> > ??????? ? ?? ????? ???????
> > ?? ???????????? ?
> >
> > ?????????????????????
> > ????????? ???? ??
> >
> > Lakshmana said to Shurpanakha: ?O Shurpanakha, I am not going to
> > touch your nose and ears even with my sword. Come back after the
> > Coronavirus goes away.?
> >
> > Madhav M. Deshpande
> > Professor Emeritus, Sanskrit and Linguistics
> > University of Michigan, Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA
> > Senior Fellow, Oxford Center for Hindu Studies
> >
> > [Residence: Campbell, California, USA]
> > _______________________________________________
> > INDOLOGY mailing list
> > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
> > committee)
> > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options
> > or unsubscribe)
>


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From mmdesh at umich.edu  Sun Mar 29 19:47:11 2020
From: mmdesh at umich.edu (Madhav Deshpande)
Date: Sun, 29 Mar 20 12:47:11 -0700
Subject: [INDOLOGY] A distraction fom the Coronavirus
In-Reply-To: <1a6054c92633a95f1f672aa09d4c9da9@univie.ac.at>
Message-ID: <CAB3-dzdtaPrvO=LzGf5f88Puz9gvGNs-Lh0Pj385BfzB5AAVHg@mail.gmail.com>

Dear Christian,

     This is truly beautiful. Not exactly a mask, but covering one's face
or head is referred to as ????????. Keep on writing.

Madhav M. Deshpande
Professor Emeritus, Sanskrit and Linguistics
University of Michigan, Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA
Senior Fellow, Oxford Center for Hindu Studies

[Residence: Campbell, California, USA]


On Sun, Mar 29, 2020 at 11:53 AM Christian Ferstl <
christian.ferstl at univie.ac.at> wrote:

> A face mask would seem odd in Dandaka forest, wouldn't it?
>
> ??????????? ??????? ??????? ????????  ?
> ?????? ????? ??????? ????? ?????????? ?
>
> As if it was the Moon hidden behind the clouds in an unseasonable
> monsoon,
> Rama beheld Sitas face concealed by a mask.
>
> Christian Ferstl
>
>
> Am 29.03.2020 15:33, schrieb Madhav Deshpande via INDOLOGY:
> > A distraction from the Coronavirus
> >
> > ??????? ? ?? ????? ???????
> > ?? ???????????? ?
> >
> > ?????????????????????
> > ????????? ???? ??
> >
> > Lakshmana said to Shurpanakha: ?O Shurpanakha, I am not going to
> > touch your nose and ears even with my sword. Come back after the
> > Coronavirus goes away.?
> >
> > Madhav M. Deshpande
> > Professor Emeritus, Sanskrit and Linguistics
> > University of Michigan, Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA
> > Senior Fellow, Oxford Center for Hindu Studies
> >
> > [Residence: Campbell, California, USA]
> > _______________________________________________
> > INDOLOGY mailing list
> > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
> > committee)
> > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options
> > or unsubscribe)
>


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From prajnapti at gmail.com  Sun Mar 29 20:00:57 2020
From: prajnapti at gmail.com (Dan Lusthaus)
Date: Sun, 29 Mar 20 16:00:57 -0400
Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_[INDOLOGY]_pr=C4=81=E1=B9=87=C4=81y=C4=81ma_query?=
In-Reply-To: <CAPAZekaAi=2GxcwdzbhnapzudngFgwunvFYehe=cP00S6tc+zQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <B22B12CF-82EC-483F-8CBC-0B7060A9A5E5@gmail.com>

There is an enchanting chapter (ch. 18) on this in An?garika Govinda?s Way of the White Clouds.

Dan

> On Mar 29, 2020, at 3:33 PM, David and Nancy Reigle via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info> wrote:
> 
> The practice in the Tibetan tradition that Dean referred to is called lung-gom, and a practitioner of it is a lung-gom-pa. If you do a search for these terms you will find what little is known about it. I assume that the Tibetan spelling is rlung sgom, where rlung means pr??a (or v?yu), and sgom means meditation or contemplation or cultivation (bh?van?).
> 
> Best regards,
> 
> David Reigle
> Colorado, U.S.A.
> 
> On Thu, Mar 26, 2020 at 5:21 AM Dean Michael Anderson via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info <mailto:indology at list.indology.info>> wrote:
> There is a similar well-known practice in the Tibetan tradition. I'll let our Tibetan experts elaborate.
> 
> There is also a well-known interaction going back centuries between Hindu yogis and Tibetan Buddhist yogis - they even revere some of the same adepts, especially in the Nath traditions. Among the actual yogic practitioners, the separation between Hinduism and Buddhism is not always so clear cut (the same is often true with Islamic fakirs and Sikhs as well).
> 
> So, I'd say, yes, there are similarities -- among the practitioners many would even go farther and say they are the same. I'm not aware of most of the scholarly literature on the subject. I'd be interested in what others might provide.
> 
> Best,
> 
> Dean
> 
> On Thursday, March 26, 2020, 1:57:01 PM GMT+5:30, patrick mccartney via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info <mailto:indology at list.indology.info>> wrote:
> 
> 
> Dear Friends, 
> 
> there is a particular breath work for cultivating endurance amongst the training manuals of Ninjas and proponents of the syncretic mountain asceticism, known as shugend?, which is called the "mountaineer's breath" (??????, tozan-ka no koky?). It has an interesting paradiddle-like ratio of inhalation/exhalation that supposedly can extend one's ability to stealthily run across mountains at night, as long as the individual breathed in this complicated way while running... I've recently tried it...I guess, I need more practice.
> Some stories say that a high-level ninjutsu-sha could run up to 200kms in a day! These extend into the stories of the "marathon monks" that, as part of their spiritual duty would run a marathon, everyday for days on end. Life without Netflix is unbounded with potential, it seems.
> 
> Anyways, the rhythmic pattern for this breath, is: 
> 1 round = 1-inhalation, 2-exhalations, 1-inhalation, 1-exhalation, 2-inhalations, 1-exhalation
> 
> I'm wondering if this is similar to any ha?ha yogic pr???y?ma? 
> 
> I'm not implying any causal link, necessarily. I leave that to others, who, in common parlance across various social media make consonant claims. Interestingly, a re-orientalized and imagined mythical Ninja culture is framed as being able to help reduce stress and tension, make people fitter, run for the train... and generally more able to endure more of life's problems, and, also have a transformative potential related to the twins of transglobal yoga's popularity: 1) accumulate power(s) and 2) achieve moral reformation. 
> 
> All the best,
> 
> ?????????????
> Patrick McCartney, PhD
> Research Affiliate - Organization for Identity and Cultural Development (OICD), Kyoto
> Research Associate - Nanzan University Anthropological Institute, Nagoya, Japan
> Visiting Fellow - South and South-east Asian Studies Department, Australian National University
> Member - South Asia Research Institute (SARI), Australian National University
> 
> Skype / Zoom - psdmccartney
> Phone + Whatsapp + Line:  +61410644259
> Twitter - @psdmccartney @yogascapesinjap
>  Yogascapes in Japan <http://yogascapes.weebly.com/> Academia <https://patrickmccartney.academia.edu/> Linkedin <https://www.linkedin.com/profile/view?id=241756978&trk=nav_responsive_tab_profile> Modern Yoga Research <http://www.modernyogaresearch.org/events/>
> 
> bodhap?rvam calema ;-)
> 
>  
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info <mailto:INDOLOGY at list.indology.info>
> indology-owner at list.indology.info <mailto:indology-owner at list.indology.info> (messages to the list's managing committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info  <http://listinfo.indology.info/>(where you can change your list options or unsubscribe)
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info <mailto:INDOLOGY at list.indology.info>
> indology-owner at list.indology.info <mailto:indology-owner at list.indology.info> (messages to the list's managing committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info <http://listinfo.indology.info/> (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe)
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe)



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From stella.sandahl at gmail.com  Sun Mar 29 20:03:35 2020
From: stella.sandahl at gmail.com (Stella Sandahl)
Date: Sun, 29 Mar 20 16:03:35 -0400
Subject: [INDOLOGY] A distraction from the Coronavirus
In-Reply-To: <CAB3-dzdFgHCAphbEn7Kw+wVM4EaSsLW9DQXf5XhQUBrkOoc8rQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <35556430-D407-48BA-8D07-095DC73ED332@gmail.com>

Dear Madhav
Why on earth do you think Lakshmana would like Shurpanakha to come back under any
circumstances?
Best wishes
Stella


Stella Sandahl
stela.sandahl at gmail.com <mailto:stela.sandahl at gmail.com>


> On Mar 28, 2020, at 9:32 AM, Madhav Deshpande via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info <mailto:indology at list.indology.info>> wrote:
> 
> A distraction from the Coronavirus
> 
> ???? ???????? ???? ???????? ?? ??????? ?
> ????????????????????? ????????? ???? ??
> 
> Lakshmana said to Shurpanakha: ?O Shurpanakha, go far away.  Don?t come near me.  Come back after the Coronavirus goes away.?
> 
> Madhav M. Deshpande
> Professor Emeritus, Sanskrit and Linguistics
> University of Michigan, Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA
> Senior Fellow, Oxford Center for Hindu Studies
> 
> [Residence: Campbell, California, USA]
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info <mailto:INDOLOGY at list.indology.info>
> indology-owner at list.indology.info <mailto:indology-owner at list.indology.info> (messages to the list's managing committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info <http://listinfo.indology.info/> (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe)



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From mkapstei at uchicago.edu  Sun Mar 29 20:28:05 2020
From: mkapstei at uchicago.edu (Matthew Kapstein)
Date: Sun, 29 Mar 20 20:28:05 +0000
Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_[INDOLOGY]_pr=C4=81=E1=B9=87=C4=81y=C4=81ma_query?=
In-Reply-To: <CAPAZekaAi=2GxcwdzbhnapzudngFgwunvFYehe=cP00S6tc+zQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <DM6PR11MB4059A47E058F3B437D2219A4A1CA0@DM6PR11MB4059.namprd11.prod.outlook.com>

actually, though, the Tibetan yogic practice of fleet-footedness is called
rkang-mgyogs (pronounced kang-gyok). I am not familar  with the details of the breathing involved,
however. In any case, the technique is associated with the yakSas and hence is often referred to in the literature as gnod-sbyin-rkang-mgyogs, "yakSa fleetfootedness."

I recall that Alexandra David-Neel was particularly fascinated with this, though I do not remember in which of her many works she mentions it. Based on her depictions, it became a constant theme of popular occultist writing on Tibet, e.g. in the books of Lobsang "Tuesday" Rampa.

Matthew Kapstein
Directeur d'?tudes, ?m?rite
Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes, Paris

Numata Visiting Professor of Buddhist Studies,
The University of Chicago
________________________________
From: INDOLOGY <indology-bounces at list.indology.info> on behalf of David and Nancy Reigle via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info>
Sent: Sunday, March 29, 2020 2:33 PM
To: Dean Michael Anderson <eastwestcultural at yahoo.com>
Cc: Indology List <indology at list.indology.info>
Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] pr???y?ma query

The practice in the Tibetan tradition that Dean referred to is called lung-gom, and a practitioner of it is a lung-gom-pa. If you do a search for these terms you will find what little is known about it. I assume that the Tibetan spelling is rlung sgom, where rlung means pr??a (or v?yu), and sgom means meditation or contemplation or cultivation (bh?van?).

Best regards,

David Reigle
Colorado, U.S.A.

On Thu, Mar 26, 2020 at 5:21 AM Dean Michael Anderson via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info<mailto:indology at list.indology.info>> wrote:
There is a similar well-known practice in the Tibetan tradition. I'll let our Tibetan experts elaborate.

There is also a well-known interaction going back centuries between Hindu yogis and Tibetan Buddhist yogis - they even revere some of the same adepts, especially in the Nath traditions. Among the actual yogic practitioners, the separation between Hinduism and Buddhism is not always so clear cut (the same is often true with Islamic fakirs and Sikhs as well).

So, I'd say, yes, there are similarities -- among the practitioners many would even go farther and say they are the same. I'm not aware of most of the scholarly literature on the subject. I'd be interested in what others might provide.

Best,

Dean

On Thursday, March 26, 2020, 1:57:01 PM GMT+5:30, patrick mccartney via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info<mailto:indology at list.indology.info>> wrote:


Dear Friends,

there is a particular breath work for cultivating endurance amongst the training manuals of Ninjas and proponents of the syncretic mountain asceticism, known as shugend?, which is called the "mountaineer's breath" (??????, tozan-ka no koky?). It has an interesting paradiddle-like ratio of inhalation/exhalation that supposedly can extend one's ability to stealthily run across mountains at night, as long as the individual breathed in this complicated way while running... I've recently tried it...I guess, I need more practice.
Some stories say that a high-level ninjutsu-sha could run up to 200kms in a day! These extend into the stories of the "marathon monks" that, as part of their spiritual duty would run a marathon, everyday for days on end. Life without Netflix is unbounded with potential, it seems.

Anyways, the rhythmic pattern for this breath, is:
1 round = 1-inhalation, 2-exhalations, 1-inhalation, 1-exhalation, 2-inhalations, 1-exhalation

I'm wondering if this is similar to any ha?ha yogic pr???y?ma?

I'm not implying any causal link, necessarily. I leave that to others, who, in common parlance across various social media make consonant claims. Interestingly, a re-orientalized and imagined mythical Ninja culture is framed as being able to help reduce stress and tension, make people fitter, run for the train... and generally more able to endure more of life's problems, and, also have a transformative potential related to the twins of transglobal yoga's popularity: 1) accumulate power(s) and 2) achieve moral reformation.

All the best,

?????????????
Patrick McCartney, PhD
Research Affiliate - Organization for Identity and Cultural Development (OICD), Kyoto
Research Associate - Nanzan University Anthropological Institute, Nagoya, Japan
Visiting Fellow - South and South-east Asian Studies Department, Australian National University
Member - South Asia Research Institute (SARI), Australian National University

Skype / Zoom - psdmccartney
Phone + Whatsapp + Line:  +61410644259
Twitter - @psdmccartney @yogascapesinjap
 Yogascapes in Japan<http://yogascapes.weebly.com/> Academia<https://patrickmccartney.academia.edu/> Linkedin<https://www.linkedin.com/profile/view?id=241756978&trk=nav_responsive_tab_profile> Modern Yoga Research<http://www.modernyogaresearch.org/events/>

bodhap?rvam calema ;-)

[https://docs.google.com/uc?export=download&id=19R8Cikbi8EiQ5UYFEBkervRVqXt-_Plr&revid=0B0ONiOO-EUx-TW1CYjlVQzhaeDVReUhFRzdubWdBLzRxaTlvPQ]





  *







_______________________________________________
INDOLOGY mailing list
INDOLOGY at list.indology.info<mailto:INDOLOGY at list.indology.info>
indology-owner at list.indology.info<mailto:indology-owner at list.indology.info> (messages to the list's managing committee)
http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe)
_______________________________________________
INDOLOGY mailing list
INDOLOGY at list.indology.info<mailto:INDOLOGY at list.indology.info>
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From j.jurewicz at uw.edu.pl  Sun Mar 29 20:39:15 2020
From: j.jurewicz at uw.edu.pl (Joanna Jurewicz)
Date: Sun, 29 Mar 20 22:39:15 +0200
Subject: [INDOLOGY] A distraction fom the Coronavirus
In-Reply-To: <CAB3-dzdtaPrvO=LzGf5f88Puz9gvGNs-Lh0Pj385BfzB5AAVHg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAAPrgboHu+7vq+RJVZm2-dVhWCrmm1emQKN4r7NGyMm=wf7YKA@mail.gmail.com>

Excellent!

---

Prof. dr hab. Joanna Jurewicz

Katedra Azji Po?udniowej /Chair of South Asia

Wydzia? Orientalistyczny / Faculty of Oriental Studies

Uniwersytet Warszawski /University of Warsaw

ul. Krakowskie Przedmie?cie 26/28

00-927 Warszawa , Poland

Department of Linguistics and Modern Languages

College of Human Sciences

UNISA

Pretoria, RSA

Member of Academia Europaea

https://uw.academia.edu/JoannaJurewicz


niedz., 29 mar 2020 o 21:48 Madhav Deshpande via INDOLOGY <
indology at list.indology.info> napisa?(a):

> Dear Christian,
>
>      This is truly beautiful. Not exactly a mask, but covering one's face
> or head is referred to as ????????. Keep on writing.
>
> Madhav M. Deshpande
> Professor Emeritus, Sanskrit and Linguistics
> University of Michigan, Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA
> Senior Fellow, Oxford Center for Hindu Studies
>
> [Residence: Campbell, California, USA]
>
>
> On Sun, Mar 29, 2020 at 11:53 AM Christian Ferstl <
> christian.ferstl at univie.ac.at> wrote:
>
>> A face mask would seem odd in Dandaka forest, wouldn't it?
>>
>> ??????????? ??????? ??????? ????????  ?
>> ?????? ????? ??????? ????? ?????????? ?
>>
>> As if it was the Moon hidden behind the clouds in an unseasonable
>> monsoon,
>> Rama beheld Sitas face concealed by a mask.
>>
>> Christian Ferstl
>>
>>
>> Am 29.03.2020 15:33, schrieb Madhav Deshpande via INDOLOGY:
>> > A distraction from the Coronavirus
>> >
>> > ??????? ? ?? ????? ???????
>> > ?? ???????????? ?
>> >
>> > ?????????????????????
>> > ????????? ???? ??
>> >
>> > Lakshmana said to Shurpanakha: ?O Shurpanakha, I am not going to
>> > touch your nose and ears even with my sword. Come back after the
>> > Coronavirus goes away.?
>> >
>> > Madhav M. Deshpande
>> > Professor Emeritus, Sanskrit and Linguistics
>> > University of Michigan, Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA
>> > Senior Fellow, Oxford Center for Hindu Studies
>> >
>> > [Residence: Campbell, California, USA]
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > INDOLOGY mailing list
>> > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>> > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
>> > committee)
>> > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options
>> > or unsubscribe)
>>
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
> committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
> unsubscribe)
>


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From eastwestcultural at yahoo.com  Sun Mar 29 20:40:32 2020
From: eastwestcultural at yahoo.com (Dean Michael Anderson)
Date: Sun, 29 Mar 20 20:40:32 +0000
Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_[INDOLOGY]_pr=C4=81=E1=B9=87=C4=81y=C4=81ma_query?=
In-Reply-To: <DM6PR11MB4059A47E058F3B437D2219A4A1CA0@DM6PR11MB4059.namprd11.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <554523844.497479.1585514432250@mail.yahoo.com>

 Is this related to what was often spelled as 'tummo' (gtum-mo) in the old days? I heard it may have been a prerequisite?
Has anybody here actually witnessed any of this? Private responses are also accepted. :-)
Dean

    On Monday, March 30, 2020, 1:58:07 AM GMT+5:30, Matthew Kapstein <mkapstei at uchicago.edu> wrote:  
 
 actually, though, the Tibetan yogic practice of fleet-footedness is calledrkang-mgyogs (pronounced kang-gyok). I am not familar? with the details of the breathing involved,however. In any case, the technique is associated with the yakSas and hence is often referred to in the literature as gnod-sbyin-rkang-mgyogs, "yakSa fleetfootedness."
I recall that Alexandra David-Neel was particularly fascinated with this, though I do not remember in which of her many works she mentions it. Based on her depictions, it became a constant theme of popular occultist writing on Tibet, e.g. in the books of Lobsang "Tuesday" Rampa.
Matthew Kapstein
Directeur d'?tudes, ?m?rite
Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes, Paris

Numata Visiting Professor of Buddhist Studies,
The University of Chicago
From: INDOLOGY <indology-bounces at list.indology.info> on behalf of David and Nancy Reigle via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info>
Sent: Sunday, March 29, 2020 2:33 PM
To: Dean Michael Anderson <eastwestcultural at yahoo.com>
Cc: Indology List <indology at list.indology.info>
Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] pr???y?ma query?The practice in the Tibetan tradition that Dean referred to is called lung-gom, and a practitioner of it is a lung-gom-pa. If you do a search for these terms you will find what little is known about it. I assume that the Tibetan spelling is rlung sgom, where rlung means pr??a (or v?yu), and sgom means meditation or contemplation or cultivation (bh?van?).
Best regards,
David ReigleColorado, U.S.A.

On Thu, Mar 26, 2020 at 5:21 AM Dean Michael Anderson via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info> wrote:

There is a similar well-known practice in the Tibetan tradition. I'll let our Tibetan experts elaborate.
There is also a well-known interaction going back centuries between Hindu yogis and Tibetan Buddhist yogis - they even revere some of the same adepts, especially in the Nath traditions. Among the actual yogic practitioners, the separation between Hinduism and Buddhism is not always so clear cut (the same is often true with Islamic fakirs and Sikhs as well).

So, I'd say, yes, there are similarities -- among the practitioners many would even go farther and say they are the same. I'm not aware of most of the scholarly literature on the subject. I'd be interested in what others might provide.
Best,
Dean

On Thursday, March 26, 2020, 1:57:01 PM GMT+5:30, patrick mccartney via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info> wrote:

Dear Friends,?
there is a particular breath work for cultivating endurance amongst the training manuals of Ninjas and proponents of the syncretic mountain asceticism, known as shugend?, which is called the?"mountaineer's breath" (??????,?tozan-ka no koky?). It has an interesting paradiddle-like ratio of inhalation/exhalation that supposedly can extend one's ability to stealthily?run across mountains at night, as long as the individual breathed in this complicated way while running... I've recently tried it...I guess, I need more practice.Some stories say that a high-levelninjutsu-sha could run up to 200kms in a day! These extend into the stories of the "marathon monks" that, as part of their spiritual duty would run a marathon, everyday for days on end. Life without Netflix is unbounded with potential, it seems.
Anyways, the rhythmic pattern for this breath, is:?
1 round =?1-inhalation, 2-exhalations, 1-inhalation, 1-exhalation, 2-inhalations, 1-exhalation
I'm wondering if this is similar to any ha?ha yogic pr???y?ma??
I'm not implying any causal link, necessarily. I leave that to others, who, in common parlance across various social media make consonant claims. Interestingly, a re-orientalized and imagined mythical Ninja culture is framed as being able to help reduce stress and tension, make people fitter, run for the train... and generally more able to endure more of life's problems, and, also have a transformative potential related to the twins of transglobal yoga's popularity: 1) accumulate power(s) and 2) achieve moral reformation.?
All the best,

?????????????
Patrick McCartney, PhDResearch Affiliate - Organization for Identity and Cultural Development (OICD), Kyoto
Research Associate - Nanzan University Anthropological Institute, Nagoya, JapanVisiting Fellow - South and South-east Asian Studies Department,?Australian National UniversityMember - South Asia Research Institute (SARI), Australian National University
Skype / Zoom - psdmccartneyPhone + Whatsapp + Line: ?+61410644259Twitter - @psdmccartney @yogascapesinjap
?Yogascapes in Japan?Academia?Linkedin?Modern Yoga Research
bodhap?rvam calema ;-)

?



   
   - 







_______________________________________________
INDOLOGY mailing list
INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee)
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From prajnapti at gmail.com  Sun Mar 29 20:47:20 2020
From: prajnapti at gmail.com (Dan Lusthaus)
Date: Sun, 29 Mar 20 16:47:20 -0400
Subject: [INDOLOGY] A distraction fom the Coronavirus
In-Reply-To: <CAB3-dzdtaPrvO=LzGf5f88Puz9gvGNs-Lh0Pj385BfzB5AAVHg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <020E04B4-D856-449F-84DF-FD05ACCBDAC1@gmail.com>

Just curiosity speaking. If the current Hindi term for medical masks is ???????? ????? (is that right?), and avagu??hana seems to indicate a veil more than an actual mask, and a ??????? seems restricted to the sort of masks used by actors, does that mean there is no classical Sanskrit term for the generic sense of mask? What do various Indian languages call the masks worn by superheroes?

Curious Dan

> On Mar 29, 2020, at 3:47 PM, Madhav Deshpande via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info> wrote:
> 
> Dear Christian,
> 
>      This is truly beautiful. Not exactly a mask, but covering one's face or head is referred to as ????????. Keep on writing. 
> 
> Madhav M. Deshpande
> Professor Emeritus, Sanskrit and Linguistics
> University of Michigan, Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA
> Senior Fellow, Oxford Center for Hindu Studies
> 
> [Residence: Campbell, California, USA]
> 
> 
> On Sun, Mar 29, 2020 at 11:53 AM Christian Ferstl <christian.ferstl at univie.ac.at <mailto:christian.ferstl at univie.ac.at>> wrote:
> A face mask would seem odd in Dandaka forest, wouldn't it?
> 
> ??????????? ??????? ??????? ????????  ?
> ?????? ????? ??????? ????? ?????????? ?
> 
> As if it was the Moon hidden behind the clouds in an unseasonable 
> monsoon,
> Rama beheld Sitas face concealed by a mask.
> 
> Christian Ferstl
> 
> 
> Am 29.03.2020 15:33, schrieb Madhav Deshpande via INDOLOGY:
> > A distraction from the Coronavirus
> > 
> > ??????? ? ?? ????? ???????
> > ?? ???????????? ?
> > 
> > ?????????????????????
> > ????????? ???? ??
> > 
> > Lakshmana said to Shurpanakha: ?O Shurpanakha, I am not going to
> > touch your nose and ears even with my sword. Come back after the
> > Coronavirus goes away.?
> > 
> > Madhav M. Deshpande
> > Professor Emeritus, Sanskrit and Linguistics
> > University of Michigan, Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA
> > Senior Fellow, Oxford Center for Hindu Studies
> > 
> > [Residence: Campbell, California, USA]
> > _______________________________________________
> > INDOLOGY mailing list
> > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info <mailto:INDOLOGY at list.indology.info>
> > indology-owner at list.indology.info <mailto:indology-owner at list.indology.info> (messages to the list's managing 
> > committee)
> > http://listinfo.indology.info <http://listinfo.indology.info/> (where you can change your list options
> > or unsubscribe)
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe)



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From ondracka at ff.cuni.cz  Sun Mar 29 20:52:28 2020
From: ondracka at ff.cuni.cz (=?utf-8?Q?Lubom=C3=ADr_Ondra=C4=8Dka?=)
Date: Sun, 29 Mar 20 22:52:28 +0200
Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_[INDOLOGY]_pr=C4=81=E1=B9=87=C4=81y=C4=81ma_query?=
In-Reply-To: <554523844.497479.1585514432250@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20200329225228.1c4163888c45bdc13bd0a6f5@ff.cuni.cz>

On this topic, please read Ian Baker's excellent book, Tibetan Yoga (2019), where you will find answers to many of the questions asked here.
L.

On Sun, 29 Mar 2020 20:40:32 +0000 (UTC)
Dean Michael Anderson via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info> wrote:

>  Is this related to what was often spelled as 'tummo' (gtum-mo) in the old days? I heard it may have been a prerequisite?
> Has anybody here actually witnessed any of this? Private responses are also accepted. :-)
> Dean
> 
>     On Monday, March 30, 2020, 1:58:07 AM GMT+5:30, Matthew Kapstein <mkapstei at uchicago.edu> wrote:  
>  
>  actually, though, the Tibetan yogic practice of fleet-footedness is calledrkang-mgyogs (pronounced kang-gyok). I am not familar? with the details of the breathing involved,however. In any case, the technique is associated with the yakSas and hence is often referred to in the literature as gnod-sbyin-rkang-mgyogs, "yakSa fleetfootedness."
> I recall that Alexandra David-Neel was particularly fascinated with this, though I do not remember in which of her many works she mentions it. Based on her depictions, it became a constant theme of popular occultist writing on Tibet, e.g. in the books of Lobsang "Tuesday" Rampa.
> Matthew Kapstein
> Directeur d'?tudes, ?m?rite
> Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes, Paris
> 
> Numata Visiting Professor of Buddhist Studies,
> The University of Chicago
> From: INDOLOGY <indology-bounces at list.indology.info> on behalf of David and Nancy Reigle via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info>
> Sent: Sunday, March 29, 2020 2:33 PM
> To: Dean Michael Anderson <eastwestcultural at yahoo.com>
> Cc: Indology List <indology at list.indology.info>
> Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] pr???y?ma query?The practice in the Tibetan tradition that Dean referred to is called lung-gom, and a practitioner of it is a lung-gom-pa. If you do a search for these terms you will find what little is known about it. I assume that the Tibetan spelling is rlung sgom, where rlung means pr??a (or v?yu), and sgom means meditation or contemplation or cultivation (bh?van?).
> Best regards,
> David ReigleColorado, U.S.A.
> 
> On Thu, Mar 26, 2020 at 5:21 AM Dean Michael Anderson via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info> wrote:
> 
> There is a similar well-known practice in the Tibetan tradition. I'll let our Tibetan experts elaborate.
> There is also a well-known interaction going back centuries between Hindu yogis and Tibetan Buddhist yogis - they even revere some of the same adepts, especially in the Nath traditions. Among the actual yogic practitioners, the separation between Hinduism and Buddhism is not always so clear cut (the same is often true with Islamic fakirs and Sikhs as well).
> 
> So, I'd say, yes, there are similarities -- among the practitioners many would even go farther and say they are the same. I'm not aware of most of the scholarly literature on the subject. I'd be interested in what others might provide.
> Best,
> Dean
> 
> On Thursday, March 26, 2020, 1:57:01 PM GMT+5:30, patrick mccartney via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info> wrote:
> 
> Dear Friends,?
> there is a particular breath work for cultivating endurance amongst the training manuals of Ninjas and proponents of the syncretic mountain asceticism, known as shugend?, which is called the?"mountaineer's breath" (??????,?tozan-ka no koky?). It has an interesting paradiddle-like ratio of inhalation/exhalation that supposedly can extend one's ability to stealthily?run across mountains at night, as long as the individual breathed in this complicated way while running... I've recently tried it...I guess, I need more practice.Some stories say that a high-levelninjutsu-sha could run up to 200kms in a day! These extend into the stories of the "marathon monks" that, as part of their spiritual duty would run a marathon, everyday for days on end. Life without Netflix is unbounded with potential, it seems.
> Anyways, the rhythmic pattern for this breath, is:?
> 1 round =?1-inhalation, 2-exhalations, 1-inhalation, 1-exhalation, 2-inhalations, 1-exhalation
> I'm wondering if this is similar to any ha?ha yogic pr???y?ma??
> I'm not implying any causal link, necessarily. I leave that to others, who, in common parlance across various social media make consonant claims. Interestingly, a re-orientalized and imagined mythical Ninja culture is framed as being able to help reduce stress and tension, make people fitter, run for the train... and generally more able to endure more of life's problems, and, also have a transformative potential related to the twins of transglobal yoga's popularity: 1) accumulate power(s) and 2) achieve moral reformation.?
> All the best,
> 
> ?????????????
> Patrick McCartney, PhDResearch Affiliate - Organization for Identity and Cultural Development (OICD), Kyoto
> Research Associate - Nanzan University Anthropological Institute, Nagoya, JapanVisiting Fellow - South and South-east Asian Studies Department,?Australian National UniversityMember - South Asia Research Institute (SARI), Australian National University
> Skype / Zoom - psdmccartneyPhone + Whatsapp + Line: ?+61410644259Twitter - @psdmccartney @yogascapesinjap
> ?Yogascapes in Japan?Academia?Linkedin?Modern Yoga Research
> bodhap?rvam calema ;-)
> 
> ?
> 
> 
> 
>    
>    - 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info(where you can change your list options or unsubscribe)
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe)
> 
>   





From timfelixaufderheide at gmail.com  Sun Mar 29 21:08:49 2020
From: timfelixaufderheide at gmail.com (Tim Felix Aufderheide)
Date: Sun, 29 Mar 20 23:08:49 +0200
Subject: [INDOLOGY] pdf request Joshi/Roodbergen Mbh.
Message-ID: <228a3a35-dbc9-a77f-4835-5e70bcebb39d@gmail.com>

Dear list members,

does anybody happen to have a pdf of the following volume of 
Joshi/Roodbergen's translation of the Mahabhashya and would be willing 
to share it on- or off-list?

Patanjali 's Vyakarana-Mahabhashya. */Pratipadikasheshahnika /*(P. 
2.3.46 - 2.3.71). Introduction, Text, Translation and Notes by S.D. 
Joshi and J .A.F. Roodbergen, Publications of the Centre of Advanced 
Study in Sanskrit. Class C, No. 14. University of Poona. Pune, 1981.

Can't find it online and interlibrary loan is obviously no option at the 
moment...

Thanks and best regards

Tim Felix Aufderheide



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From mmdesh at umich.edu  Sun Mar 29 21:45:21 2020
From: mmdesh at umich.edu (Madhav Deshpande)
Date: Sun, 29 Mar 20 14:45:21 -0700
Subject: [INDOLOGY] A distraction from the Coronavirus
In-Reply-To: <35556430-D407-48BA-8D07-095DC73ED332@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAB3-dzc++2oir5O2E0WgYWx08_8T+HLfBBbNOP3ky=A4RZaJOQ@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Stella,

     No logic.  Just to make you laugh!

Madhav

Madhav M. Deshpande
Professor Emeritus, Sanskrit and Linguistics
University of Michigan, Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA
Senior Fellow, Oxford Center for Hindu Studies

[Residence: Campbell, California, USA]


On Sun, Mar 29, 2020 at 1:03 PM Stella Sandahl <stella.sandahl at gmail.com>
wrote:

> Dear Madhav
> Why on earth do you think Lakshmana would like Shurpanakha to come back
> under any
> circumstances?
> Best wishes
> Stella
>
>
> Stella Sandahl
> stela.sandahl at gmail.com
>
>
> On Mar 28, 2020, at 9:32 AM, Madhav Deshpande via INDOLOGY <
> indology at list.indology.info> wrote:
>
> A distraction from the Coronavirus
>
> ???? ???????? ???? ???????? ?? ??????? ?
> ????????????????????? ????????? ???? ??
>
> Lakshmana said to Shurpanakha: ?O Shurpanakha, go far away. Don?t come
> near me. Come back after the Coronavirus goes away.?
>
> Madhav M. Deshpande
> Professor Emeritus, Sanskrit and Linguistics
> University of Michigan, Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA
> Senior Fellow, Oxford Center for Hindu Studies
>
> [Residence: Campbell, California, USA]
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
> committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
> unsubscribe)
>
>
>


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From vasishtha.spier at gmail.com  Sun Mar 29 22:26:29 2020
From: vasishtha.spier at gmail.com (Harry Spier)
Date: Sun, 29 Mar 20 18:26:29 -0400
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Metrical inconsistencies and tradition
Message-ID: <CAJ3b0o_gwz0V4wumZkqi29PWtChUtUg0VHF808To7EYLCat7hg@mail.gmail.com>

Dear list members,

Victor Davella wrote:

. . .according to the standards as reported in sources spanning some 1600 years
and very much still current today, it is absolutely necessary to adhere to
grammatically correct Sanskrit and the rules of meter  . . .

It also seems that earlier there wasn't so much a concern.
Of the 12 Gayatri mantras at  Maitr?ya??-Sa?hit?  2-9-1, three of those
gayatri mantras have extra syllables.

And see this post of Madhav's
http://list.indology.info/pipermail/indology_list.indology.info/2015-
January/040590.html  which concludes:  the Br?hma?a texts were not bothered
by deviations of meters up to two syllables".

Why the change in attitude towards meter?

Harry Spier

tat puru??ya vidmahe mah?dev?ya dh?mahi /
     tan no rudra? pracoday?t //

     tad g??gaucy?ya vidmahe girisut?ya dh?mahi /
     tan no gaur? pracoday?t //

     tat kum?r?ya vidmahe k?rttikey?ya dh?mahi /
     tan na? skanda? pracoday?t //

     tat kar???ya vidmahe hastimukh?ya dh?mahi /
     tan no dant? pracoday?t //

     tac caturmukh?ya vidmahe padm?san?ya dh?mahi /
     tan no brahm? pracoday?t //

     tat ke?av?ya vidmahe n?r?ya??ya dh?mahi /
     tan no vi??u? pracodayat //

     tad bh?skar?ya vidmahe prabh?kar?ya dh?mahi /
     tan no bh?nu? pracoday?t //

     tat somar?j?ya vidmahe mah?r?j?ya dh?mahi /
     tan na? candra? pracoday?t //

     taj jvalan?ya vidmahe vai?v?nar?ya dh?mahi /
     tan no vahni? pracoday?t //

     tat tyajap?ya vidmahe mah?jap?ya dh?mahi /
     tan no dhy?na? pracoday?t //

     tat param?tm?ya vidmahe vainatey?ya dh?mahi /
     tan na? s???i? pracoday?t //MS_2,9.1//


and see this


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From timfelixaufderheide at gmail.com  Mon Mar 30 08:20:02 2020
From: timfelixaufderheide at gmail.com (Tim Felix Aufderheide)
Date: Mon, 30 Mar 20 10:20:02 +0200
Subject: [INDOLOGY] pdf request Joshi/Roodbergen Mbh.
Message-ID: <7c4c6392-f7e3-5b1b-3c8b-0316c218f770@gmail.com>

Dear all,

thanks to everybody on the list who provided me -- within only a couple 
of hours over night! -- with scans of Joshi/Roddbergen's Mbh. 
translation! Your help is highly appreciated.

Best regards

Tim






From john.lowe at orinst.ox.ac.uk  Mon Mar 30 09:02:24 2020
From: john.lowe at orinst.ox.ac.uk (John Lowe)
Date: Mon, 30 Mar 20 09:02:24 +0000
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Retroflexion and gender in viruses
In-Reply-To: <CAB3-dzcb7WuTyFrOiS11S1PY9-DFe-WaSM5bJkObwTTn__dUbA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <LO2P265MB0112CF9396F96C9DCEAE9F01FECB0@LO2P265MB0112.GBRP265.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>

I don't currently have access to my books and papers, but I believe for Panini the only optionality or exceptions to nati all involve morphological boundaries - either nominal compounding, or preverb-verb compounding.

Are there any genuine examples of exceptions/optionality of nati not involving a morphological boundary (parallel to the many exceptions to ruki, like kusuma-)?

If we could split Korona- into something like Kora-una-, then perhaps we could have the optionality; but then again for Panini, the tendency is that compounds forming names are more disposed to nati than freely formed compounds, so even as a compound name we would expect the retroflex, I think.

John



________________________________
From: INDOLOGY <indology-bounces at list.indology.info> on behalf of Madhav Deshpande via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info>
Sent: 29 March 2020 05:22
To: Harry Spier <vasishtha.spier at gmail.com>
Cc: indology at list.indology.info <INDOLOGY at list.indology.info>
Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] Retroflexion and gender in viruses

Dear Harry,

     There are similar alternating usages found in Sanskrit as well and authorized by Panini, for example -

???????????????????? ?????

???????????? - ???? ??????? ???????? ??? ???????? ??????????? ? ????????? ????????????????? ????????? ???? ????? ???? ??????? ????????????? ????? ??????????, ??????????? ??????????, ??????????? ??????????? ?????????, ?????????? ????????, ?????????

Madhav M. Deshpande
Professor Emeritus, Sanskrit and Linguistics
University of Michigan, Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA
Senior Fellow, Oxford Center for Hindu Studies

[Residence: Campbell, California, USA]


On Sat, Mar 28, 2020 at 2:46 PM Harry Spier via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info<mailto:indology at list.indology.info>> wrote:

Mathew Kapstein: ?????
Others ??????


On Sat, Mar 28, 2020 at 7:08 AM Matthew Kapstein via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info<mailto:indology at list.indology.info>> wrote:
With so many mah?kavi-s on this list, you will have to forgive me this silly amateurism (with Tibetan translation):

???????????? ???????? ????????????????????
???????????? ?? ???? ????????????


?????????????????????????

????????????????????????

????????????????????????

??????????????????????????


Matthew

Matthew Kapstein
Directeur d'?tudes, ?m?rite
Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes, Paris

Numata Visiting Professor of Buddhist Studies,
The University of Chicago
_______________________________________________
INDOLOGY mailing list
INDOLOGY at list.indology.info<mailto:INDOLOGY at list.indology.info>
indology-owner at list.indology.info<mailto:indology-owner at list.indology.info> (messages to the list's managing committee)
http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe)
_______________________________________________
INDOLOGY mailing list
INDOLOGY at list.indology.info<mailto:INDOLOGY at list.indology.info>
indology-owner at list.indology.info<mailto:indology-owner at list.indology.info> (messages to the list's managing committee)
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From christophe.vielle at uclouvain.be  Mon Mar 30 09:30:45 2020
From: christophe.vielle at uclouvain.be (Christophe Vielle)
Date: Mon, 30 Mar 20 11:30:45 +0200
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Metrical inconsistencies and tradition
In-Reply-To: <CAJ3b0o_gwz0V4wumZkqi29PWtChUtUg0VHF808To7EYLCat7hg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <F5E78A66-83F7-4A94-B2EE-AB57C225746F@uclouvain.be>

kukavit? is as risky as the covid according to Bh?maha:

n?kavitvam adharm?ye  m?taye da??an?ya v? |

kukavitva? puna? s?k??n  m?tim ?hur man??i?a? ||


I just found the verse in one Anthology (SRH p. 138) but see now than Victor Davella has dealt with in his philological dissertation (UChicago, 2018, p. 70) - here his translation:

Not being a poet does not lead to demerit, sickness or punishment, but being a bad poet, the wise say, truly spells death. 



> Le 30 mars 2020 ? 00:26, Harry Spier via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info> a ?crit :
> 
> Dear list members,
> 
> Victor Davella wrote: 
> 
> . . .according to the standards as reported in sources spanning some 1600 years and very much still current today, it is absolutely necessary to adhere to grammatically correct Sanskrit and the rules of meter  . . .
> 
> It also seems that earlier there wasn't so much a concern.
> Of the 12 Gayatri mantras at  Maitr?ya??-Sa?hit?  2-9-1, three of those gayatri mantras have extra syllables. 
> 
> And see this post of Madhav's http://list.indology.info/pipermail/indology_list.indology.info/2015-January/040590.html <https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Flist.indology.info%2Fpipermail%2Findology_list.indology.info%2F2015-January%2F040590.html&data=02%7C01%7Cchristophe.vielle%40uclouvain.be%7Cccb6c45580c14bfc721208d7d4305bf6%7C7ab090d4fa2e4ecfbc7c4127b4d582ec%7C0%7C0%7C637211176469910078&sdata=TH1lCbBIrITRZruJCoH%2B5SSD3wVYMi%2FQC%2FFsl5H4pmc%3D&reserved=0>  which concludes:  the Br?hma?a texts were not bothered by deviations of meters up to two syllables".
> 
> Why the change in attitude towards meter?
> 
> Harry Spier
> tat puru??ya vidmahe mah?dev?ya dh?mahi /
>      tan no rudra? pracoday?t //
> 
>      tad g??gaucy?ya vidmahe girisut?ya dh?mahi /
>      tan no gaur? pracoday?t //
> 
>      tat kum?r?ya vidmahe k?rttikey?ya dh?mahi /
>      tan na? skanda? pracoday?t //
> 
>      tat kar???ya vidmahe hastimukh?ya dh?mahi /
>      tan no dant? pracoday?t //
> 
>      tac caturmukh?ya vidmahe padm?san?ya dh?mahi /
>      tan no brahm? pracoday?t //
> 
>      tat ke?av?ya vidmahe n?r?ya??ya dh?mahi /
>      tan no vi??u? pracodayat //
> 
>      tad bh?skar?ya vidmahe prabh?kar?ya dh?mahi /
>      tan no bh?nu? pracoday?t //
> 
>      tat somar?j?ya vidmahe mah?r?j?ya dh?mahi /
>      tan na? candra? pracoday?t //
> 
>      taj jvalan?ya vidmahe vai?v?nar?ya dh?mahi /
>      tan no vahni? pracoday?t //
> 
>      tat tyajap?ya vidmahe mah?jap?ya dh?mahi /
>      tan no dhy?na? pracoday?t //
> 
>      tat param?tm?ya vidmahe vainatey?ya dh?mahi /
>      tan na? s???i? pracoday?t //MS_2,9.1//
> 
> and see this
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee)
> https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Flistinfo.indology.info&amp;data=02%7C01%7Cchristophe.vielle%40uclouvain.be%7Cccb6c45580c14bfc721208d7d4305bf6%7C7ab090d4fa2e4ecfbc7c4127b4d582ec%7C0%7C0%7C637211176469930070&amp;sdata=8jsugMZ8FuMD2lCgVfM7tJLGrBIEFVkWabLgRIbo7T4%3D&amp;reserved=0 (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe)



> On 29 Mar 2020, at 14.27, victor davella via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info <mailto:indology at list.indology.info>> wrote:
> 
> Dear All,
> 
> Has any research been done on the name of the seven trees R?ma shoot in R 4.12? It seems as though this is one of those text-critical issues that is almost impossible to decide: ??la-s?la-t?la. I'm more or less aware of all that the lexicographers have to say on the matter (??la is prescribed by Mahe?vara but commentators on the Amarako?a 2.4.know both s?la and ??la, etc.). I am working on a passage where more or the less the same variants are available as in R 4.12 and was intrigued by the fact that ?1, our oldest dated witness (Samvat 1076/1020 CE) has t?la throughout. Other Devan?gar? MSS and the ??rada MS share it as well, so it seems that it was intentional and not just a confusion of ??/??.
> 
> A brief note on Sanskrit composition and poetic criticism since this is a topic I have been occupied with for years now: if we wish to compose according to the standards as reported in sources spanning some 1600 years and very much still current today, it is absolutely necessary to adhere to grammatically correct Sanskrit and the rules of meter (the classical ??oka is not quite as easy as it seems). Although most great poets have used forms that have been subject to criticism and endless debate (this is especially true of K?lid?sa but even M?gha's famed verse on the bells [4.20] drives grammarians mad), it is best for beginners to stick with well-attested grammatical forms and avoid those found in the Epics. Epic forms are of course not wrong, but my impression is that we, as non-??is, have not business using them and poems containing them would be readily dismissed especially at the beginning stages of composition.  One of the benefits of presenting poetry or other work to the sabh? is to receive feedback for improvement. This has always been the case. Yet criticism and erudition can come in many forms. I always think of Pt. A?janeya ?arma's response to my question about the meaning of "fragrant gold" (to paraphrase): any pa??it is of course gold, but a kind pa??it is fragrant gold.
> 
> All the Best,
> Victor
> 
???????????????????
Christophe Vielle <https://uclouvain.be/en/directories/christophe.vielle>
Louvain-la-Neuve





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From christophe.vielle at uclouvain.be  Mon Mar 30 09:33:28 2020
From: christophe.vielle at uclouvain.be (Christophe Vielle)
Date: Mon, 30 Mar 20 11:33:28 +0200
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Metrical inconsistencies and tradition
In-Reply-To: <CAJ3b0o_gwz0V4wumZkqi29PWtChUtUg0VHF808To7EYLCat7hg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <E65E4E17-D857-4476-87D6-F89C922FDEB7@uclouvain.be>

sorry for the typo: adharm?ya - variant reading vy?dhaye for m?taye in Davella.


kukavit? is as risky as the covid according to Bh?maha:

n?kavitvam adharm?ye  m?taye da??an?ya v? |

kukavitva? puna? s?k??n  m?tim ?hur man??i?a? ||


I just found the verse in one Anthology (SRH p. 138) but see now than Victor Davella has dealt with in his philological dissertation (UChicago, 2018, p. 70) - here his translation:

Not being a poet does not lead to demerit, sickness or punishment, but being a bad poet, the wise say, truly spells death. 



> Le 30 mars 2020 ? 00:26, Harry Spier via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info <mailto:indology at list.indology.info>> a ?crit :
> 
> Dear list members,
> 
> Victor Davella wrote: 
> 
> . . .according to the standards as reported in sources spanning some 1600 years and very much still current today, it is absolutely necessary to adhere to grammatically correct Sanskrit and the rules of meter  . . .
> 
> It also seems that earlier there wasn't so much a concern.
> Of the 12 Gayatri mantras at  Maitr?ya??-Sa?hit?  2-9-1, three of those gayatri mantras have extra syllables. 
> 
> And see this post of Madhav's http://list.indology.info/pipermail/indology_list.indology.info/2015-January/040590.html <https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Flist.indology.info%2Fpipermail%2Findology_list.indology.info%2F2015-January%2F040590.html&data=02%7C01%7Cchristophe.vielle%40uclouvain.be%7Cccb6c45580c14bfc721208d7d4305bf6%7C7ab090d4fa2e4ecfbc7c4127b4d582ec%7C0%7C0%7C637211176469910078&sdata=TH1lCbBIrITRZruJCoH%2B5SSD3wVYMi%2FQC%2FFsl5H4pmc%3D&reserved=0>  which concludes:  the Br?hma?a texts were not bothered by deviations of meters up to two syllables".
> 
> Why the change in attitude towards meter?
> 
> Harry Spier
> tat puru??ya vidmahe mah?dev?ya dh?mahi /
>      tan no rudra? pracoday?t //
> 
>      tad g??gaucy?ya vidmahe girisut?ya dh?mahi /
>      tan no gaur? pracoday?t //
> 
>      tat kum?r?ya vidmahe k?rttikey?ya dh?mahi /
>      tan na? skanda? pracoday?t //
> 
>      tat kar???ya vidmahe hastimukh?ya dh?mahi /
>      tan no dant? pracoday?t //
> 
>      tac caturmukh?ya vidmahe padm?san?ya dh?mahi /
>      tan no brahm? pracoday?t //
> 
>      tat ke?av?ya vidmahe n?r?ya??ya dh?mahi /
>      tan no vi??u? pracodayat //
> 
>      tad bh?skar?ya vidmahe prabh?kar?ya dh?mahi /
>      tan no bh?nu? pracoday?t //
> 
>      tat somar?j?ya vidmahe mah?r?j?ya dh?mahi /
>      tan na? candra? pracoday?t //
> 
>      taj jvalan?ya vidmahe vai?v?nar?ya dh?mahi /
>      tan no vahni? pracoday?t //
> 
>      tat tyajap?ya vidmahe mah?jap?ya dh?mahi /
>      tan no dhy?na? pracoday?t //
> 
>      tat param?tm?ya vidmahe vainatey?ya dh?mahi /
>      tan na? s???i? pracoday?t //MS_2,9.1//
> 
> and see this
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info <mailto:INDOLOGY at list.indology.info>
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee)
> https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Flistinfo.indology.info&amp;data=02%7C01%7Cchristophe.vielle%40uclouvain.be%7Cccb6c45580c14bfc721208d7d4305bf6%7C7ab090d4fa2e4ecfbc7c4127b4d582ec%7C0%7C0%7C637211176469930070&amp;sdata=8jsugMZ8FuMD2lCgVfM7tJLGrBIEFVkWabLgRIbo7T4%3D&amp;reserved=0 (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe)



> On 29 Mar 2020, at 14.27, victor davella via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info <mailto:indology at list.indology.info>> wrote:
> 
> Dear All,
> 
> Has any research been done on the name of the seven trees R?ma shoot in R 4.12? It seems as though this is one of those text-critical issues that is almost impossible to decide: ??la-s?la-t?la. I'm more or less aware of all that the lexicographers have to say on the matter (??la is prescribed by Mahe?vara but commentators on the Amarako?a 2.4.know both s?la and ??la, etc.). I am working on a passage where more or the less the same variants are available as in R 4.12 and was intrigued by the fact that ?1, our oldest dated witness (Samvat 1076/1020 CE) has t?la throughout. Other Devan?gar? MSS and the ??rada MS share it as well, so it seems that it was intentional and not just a confusion of ??/??.
> 
> A brief note on Sanskrit composition and poetic criticism since this is a topic I have been occupied with for years now: if we wish to compose according to the standards as reported in sources spanning some 1600 years and very much still current today, it is absolutely necessary to adhere to grammatically correct Sanskrit and the rules of meter (the classical ??oka is not quite as easy as it seems). Although most great poets have used forms that have been subject to criticism and endless debate (this is especially true of K?lid?sa but even M?gha's famed verse on the bells [4.20] drives grammarians mad), it is best for beginners to stick with well-attested grammatical forms and avoid those found in the Epics. Epic forms are of course not wrong, but my impression is that we, as non-??is, have not business using them and poems containing them would be readily dismissed especially at the beginning stages of composition.  One of the benefits of presenting poetry or other work to the sabh? is to receive feedback for improvement. This has always been the case. Yet criticism and erudition can come in many forms. I always think of Pt. A?janeya ?arma's response to my question about the meaning of "fragrant gold" (to paraphrase): any pa??it is of course gold, but a kind pa??it is fragrant gold.
> 
> All the Best,
> Victor
> 
???????????????????
Christophe Vielle <https://uclouvain.be/en/directories/christophe.vielle>
Louvain-la-Neuve





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From christian.ferstl at univie.ac.at  Mon Mar 30 09:43:00 2020
From: christian.ferstl at univie.ac.at (Christian Ferstl)
Date: Mon, 30 Mar 20 11:43:00 +0200
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Retroflexion and gender in viruses
In-Reply-To: <LO2P265MB0112CF9396F96C9DCEAE9F01FECB0@LO2P265MB0112.GBRP265.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
Message-ID: <7a4bf90a1293f9da32b569015514b902@univie.ac.at>

That is, writing Sanskrit - not Hindi -  we should prefer the spelling 
??????. With the nirukti kora-?na this would denote something even less 
or smaller than a bud, no?

Regarding Bh?maha, most of us would still prefer a grammatical error to 
a virus infection, I guess:

??? ????????? ?????? ??????? ?? ????????? ?
????????????????? ??? ??????? ????????? ?
????????????????? ??????? ????????? ?

"A stanza a day keeps the virus away --
even if there may be a grammatical error, which can easily be 
corrected."
This was said by a friend of the kavis secluded in his own house.

Just my two (and a half) cents.
Best,
Christian Ferstl


Am 30.03.2020 11:02, schrieb John Lowe via INDOLOGY:
> I don't currently have access to my books and papers, but I believe
> for Panini the only optionality or exceptions to nati all involve
> morphological boundaries - either nominal compounding, or preverb-verb
> compounding.
> 
> Are there any genuine examples of exceptions/optionality of nati not
> involving a morphological boundary (parallel to the many exceptions to
> ruki, like _kusuma-_)?
> 
> If we could split Korona- into something like Kora-una-, then perhaps
> we could have the optionality; but then again for Panini, the tendency
> is that compounds forming names are more disposed to nati than freely
> formed compounds, so even as a compound name we would expect the
> retroflex, I think.
> 
> John
> 
> -------------------------
> 
> From: INDOLOGY <indology-bounces at list.indology.info> on behalf of
> Madhav Deshpande via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info>
> Sent: 29 March 2020 05:22
> To: Harry Spier <vasishtha.spier at gmail.com>
> Cc: indology at list.indology.info <INDOLOGY at list.indology.info>
> Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] Retroflexion and gender in viruses
> 
> Dear Harry,
> 
>      There are similar alternating usages found in Sanskrit as well
> and authorized by Panini, for example -
> 
> ????????????????????
> ?????
> 
> ???????????? - ????
> ??????? ???????? ???
> ???????? ??????????? ?
> ?????????
> ?????????????????
> ????????? ???? ????? ????
> ??????? ?????????????
> ????? ??????????,
> ??????????? ??????????,
> ??????????? ???????????
> ?????????, ??????????
> ????????, ?????????
> 
> Madhav M. Deshpande
> Professor Emeritus, Sanskrit and Linguistics
> University of Michigan, Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA
> Senior Fellow, Oxford Center for Hindu Studies
> 
> [Residence: Campbell, California, USA]
> 
> On Sat, Mar 28, 2020 at 2:46 PM Harry Spier via INDOLOGY
> <indology at list.indology.info> wrote:
> 
>> Mathew Kapstein: ?????
>> Others ??????
>> 
>> On Sat, Mar 28, 2020 at 7:08 AM Matthew Kapstein via INDOLOGY
>> <indology at list.indology.info> wrote:
>> 
>>> With so many mah?kavi-s on this list, you will have to forgive
>>> me this silly amateurism (with Tibetan translation):
>>> 
>>> ???????????? ????????
>>> ????????????????????
>>> ???????????? ?? ????
>>> ????????????
>>> 
>>> 
>> 
> ?????????????????????????
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>> 
> ????????????????????????
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>> 
> ????????????????????????
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>> 
> ??????????????????????????
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Matthew
>>> 
>>> Matthew Kapstein
>>> Directeur d'?tudes, ?m?rite
>>> Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes, Paris
>>> 
>>> Numata Visiting Professor of Buddhist Studies,
>>> The University of Chicago
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
>>> committee)
>>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list
>>> options or unsubscribe)
>> _______________________________________________
>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
>> committee)
>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list
>> options or unsubscribe)
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing 
> committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options
> or unsubscribe)





From andra.kleb at gmail.com  Mon Mar 30 09:46:16 2020
From: andra.kleb at gmail.com (andra.kleb at gmail.com)
Date: Mon, 30 Mar 20 18:46:16 +0900
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Metrical inconsistencies and tradition
In-Reply-To: <F5E78A66-83F7-4A94-B2EE-AB57C225746F@uclouvain.be>
Message-ID: <97b8d304-c913-40f7-9b52-c8036aa82c7b@Spark>

While a bad poet is surely at risk of many calamities, the question really is whether the use unpaninian forms immediately renders a poet bad or not. This question is, I think, also largely treated in Victor D?Avella?s excellent dissertation.

best,
Andrey
On Mar 30, 2020 18:37 +0900, Christophe Vielle via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info>, wrote:
> kukavit? is as risky as the covid according to Bh?maha:
>
> n?kavitvam?adharm?ye ?m?taye da??an?ya v??|
> kukavitva? puna? s?k??n? m?tim??hur?man??i?a? ||
>
> I just found the verse in one Anthology (SRH p. 138) but see now than Victor Davella has dealt with in his philological dissertation (UChicago, 2018, p. 70) - here his translation:
>
> Not being a poet does not lead to demerit, sickness or punishment, but being a bad poet, the wise say, truly spells death.
>
>
> > Le 30 mars 2020 ? 00:26, Harry Spier via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info> a ?crit :
> >
> > Dear list members,
> >
> > Victor Davella wrote:
> >
> > . . .according to the standards as reported in sources spanning some?1600?years and very much still current today, it is absolutely necessary to adhere to grammatically correct Sanskrit and the rules of meter? . . .
> >
> > It also seems that earlier there wasn't so much a concern.
> > Of the 12 Gayatri mantras at??Maitr?ya??-Sa?hit?? 2-9-1, three of those gayatri mantras have extra syllables.
> >
> > And see this post of Madhav's?http://list.indology.info/pipermail/indology_list.indology.info/2015-January/040590.html? which concludes:? the Br?hma?a texts were not bothered by deviations of meters up to two syllables".
> >
> > Why the change in attitude towards meter?
> >
> > Harry Spier
> > tat puru??ya vidmahe mah?dev?ya dh?mahi /
> > ?????tan no rudra? pracoday?t //
> >
> > ?????tad g??gaucy?ya vidmahe girisut?ya dh?mahi /
> > ?????tan no gaur? pracoday?t //
> >
> > ?????tat kum?r?ya vidmahe k?rttikey?ya dh?mahi /
> > ?????tan na? skanda? pracoday?t //
> >
> > ?????tat kar???ya vidmahe hastimukh?ya dh?mahi /
> > ?????tan no dant? pracoday?t //
> >
> > ?????tac caturmukh?ya vidmahe padm?san?ya dh?mahi /
> > ?????tan no brahm? pracoday?t //
> >
> > ?????tat ke?av?ya vidmahe n?r?ya??ya dh?mahi /
> > ?????tan no vi??u? pracodayat //
> >
> > ?????tad bh?skar?ya vidmahe prabh?kar?ya dh?mahi /
> > ?????tan no bh?nu? pracoday?t //
> >
> > ?????tat somar?j?ya vidmahe mah?r?j?ya dh?mahi /
> > ?????tan na? candra? pracoday?t //
> >
> > ?????taj jvalan?ya vidmahe vai?v?nar?ya dh?mahi /
> > ?????tan no vahni? pracoday?t //
> >
> > ?????tat tyajap?ya vidmahe mah?jap?ya dh?mahi /
> > ?????tan no dhy?na? pracoday?t //
> >
> > ?????tat param?tm?ya vidmahe vainatey?ya dh?mahi /
> > ?????tan na? s???i? pracoday?t //MS_2,9.1//
> >
> > and see this
> > _______________________________________________
> > INDOLOGY mailing list
> > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee)
> > https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Flistinfo.indology.info&amp;data=02%7C01%7Cchristophe.vielle%40uclouvain.be%7Cccb6c45580c14bfc721208d7d4305bf6%7C7ab090d4fa2e4ecfbc7c4127b4d582ec%7C0%7C0%7C637211176469930070&amp;sdata=8jsugMZ8FuMD2lCgVfM7tJLGrBIEFVkWabLgRIbo7T4%3D&amp;reserved=0 (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe)
>
>
> > On 29 Mar 2020, at 14.27, victor davella via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info> wrote:
> >
> > Dear All,
> >
> > Has any research been done on the name of the seven trees R?ma shoot in R 4.12? It seems as though?this is one of those text-critical issues that is almost impossible to decide: ??la-s?la-t?la. I'm more or less aware of all that the lexicographers have to say on the matter (??la is prescribed by Mahe?vara but commentators on the Amarako?a 2.4.know both s?la and ??la, etc.). I am working on a passage where more?or the less the same variants are available as in R 4.12 and was intrigued?by the fact that ?1, our oldest dated witness (Samvat 1076/1020 CE) has t?la throughout. Other Devan?gar? MSS and the???rada MS share it as well, so it seems that it was intentional and not just a confusion of ??/??.
> >
> > A brief note on Sanskrit composition and poetic criticism since this is a topic I have been occupied with for years now: if we wish to compose according to the standards as reported in sources spanning some 1600 years and very much still current today, it is absolutely necessary to adhere to grammatically correct Sanskrit and the rules of meter (the classical ??oka is not quite as easy as it seems). Although most great poets have used forms that have been subject to criticism and endless debate (this is especially true of K?lid?sa but even M?gha's famed verse on the bells [4.20] drives grammarians mad), it is best for beginners to stick with well-attested grammatical forms and avoid those found in the Epics. Epic forms are of course not wrong, but my impression is that we, as non-??is, have not business using them and?poems containing them would be readily dismissed especially at the beginning stages of composition.? One of the benefits of presenting poetry or other work to the sabh? is to receive feedback for improvement. This has always been the case. Yet criticism and erudition can come in many forms. I always think of Pt. A?janeya??arma's response to my question about the meaning of "fragrant gold" (to paraphrase): any pa??it is of course gold, but a kind pa??it is fragrant gold.
> >
> > All the Best,
> > Victor
> >
> ???????????????????
> Christophe Vielle
> Louvain-la-Neuve
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe)


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From straubem at staff.uni-marburg.de  Mon Mar 30 10:46:15 2020
From: straubem at staff.uni-marburg.de (Martin Straube)
Date: Mon, 30 Mar 20 12:46:15 +0200
Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_[INDOLOGY]_The_seven_trees_R=C4=81ma_shot?=
In-Reply-To: <71AB6BDF-8FF9-472D-9EFF-FB78376C23F6@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20200330124615.Horde.kEtYajzqKzhVsI1oN09WdQC@home.staff.uni-marburg.de>

Dear Victor & Asko,

the motif of the Bodhisattva piercing in a contest seven palmyra palms  
in one row also occurs in the Sudhanakinnari-jataka. As far as I  
remember, the various versions of that story mention taala, not saala.  
The Jatakamala of Haribhatta (HJM) even says that those taalas are  
"made of iron" (ayomaya, HJM 25.214) which should probably taken cum  
grano salis to underline how hard the stems of a plamyra palm are. I  
discussed the versions of the Sudhanakinnari-jataka in a book (Prinz  
Sudhana und die Kinnari, Marburg, 2006, Indica et Tibetica 46); there  
is also an article by Dieter Schlingloff (in English) on that story in  
Ajanta where the different textual versions are discussed too  
(Indologica Taurinensia 1, 1973; see also D. Schlingloff, Studies in  
the Ajanta Paintings, Delhi 1988, chapter 6).

With best wishes
Martin

Zitat von Asko Parpola via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info>:

> I have written the following on this topic in the joint paper by  
> Asko Parpola & Juha Janhunen, ?On the Asiatic Wild Asses and Their  
> Vernacular Names?, pp. 59-124 in: Toshiki Osada & Hitoshi Endo  
> (eds.), Linguistics, Archaeology and the Human Part: Occasional  
> Paper 12, Kyoto: Indus Project, Research Institute for Humanity and  
> Nature, 2011; reprinted, pp. 59-124 in: Toshiki Osada & Hitoshi Endo  
> (eds.), Current Studies on the Indus Civilization, vol. IX, New  
> Delhi: Manohar, 2012.
>
> Page 111, note 94. Another reason is Balar?ma?s great strength  
> (bala-). The stem of the palmyra palm is hard as stone, and the  
> Buddha as a young prince alone among several contestants was able to  
> pierce seven palmyra palms that stood in a row with a single arrow  
> (cf. Maha?vastu 2 p. 75-76 & Lalitavistara 2, p. 155; this episode  
> of the Buddha's life is depicted both in cave 16 at Ajan?t?a? and in  
> Borobud?ur, and the trees depicted are clearly palmyra palms). In  
> Ra?ma?yan?a 4,11,47 - 4,12,9, Ra?ma performs the same feat. Many  
> manuscripts here have ta?la instead of sa?la in the critical edition  
> and Lefeber's translation (cf. Lefeber 1994: 77-78 and 224-226;  
> sa?la is Shorea robusta). It is undoubtedly for such a reason that  
> also Bhi?s?ma (cf. Maha?bha?rata 6,44,48) and Kr?s?n?a  
> (Maha?bha?rata 16,4,5) are said to have the palmyra palm as the  
> emblem on their banner. (See Syed 1990: 311-314 and 323-324 with  
> Abb. 14.6-7.)
>
> With best wishes, Asko
>
>> On 29 Mar 2020, at 14.27, victor davella via INDOLOGY  
>> <indology at list.indology.info> wrote:
>>
>> Dear All,
>>
>> Has any research been done on the name of the seven trees R?ma  
>> shoot in R 4.12? It seems as though this is one of those  
>> text-critical issues that is almost impossible to decide:  
>> ??la-s?la-t?la. I'm more or less aware of all that the  
>> lexicographers have to say on the matter (??la is prescribed by  
>> Mahe?vara but commentators on the Amarako?a 2.4.know both s?la and  
>> ??la, etc.). I am working on a passage where more or the less the  
>> same variants are available as in R 4.12 and was intrigued by the  
>> fact that ?1, our oldest dated witness (Samvat 1076/1020 CE) has  
>> t?la throughout. Other Devan?gar? MSS and the ??rada MS share it as  
>> well, so it seems that it was intentional and not just a confusion  
>> of ??/??.
>>
>> A brief note on Sanskrit composition and poetic criticism since  
>> this is a topic I have been occupied with for years now: if we wish  
>> to compose according to the standards as reported in sources  
>> spanning some 1600 years and very much still current today, it is  
>> absolutely necessary to adhere to grammatically correct Sanskrit  
>> and the rules of meter (the classical ??oka is not quite as easy as  
>> it seems). Although most great poets have used forms that have been  
>> subject to criticism and endless debate (this is especially true of  
>> K?lid?sa but even M?gha's famed verse on the bells [4.20] drives  
>> grammarians mad), it is best for beginners to stick with  
>> well-attested grammatical forms and avoid those found in the Epics.  
>> Epic forms are of course not wrong, but my impression is that we,  
>> as non-??is, have not business using them and poems containing them  
>> would be readily dismissed especially at the beginning stages of  
>> composition.  One of the benefits of presenting poetry or other  
>> work to the sabh? is to receive feedback for improvement. This has  
>> always been the case. Yet criticism and erudition can come in many  
>> forms. I always think of Pt. A?janeya ?arma's response to my  
>> question about the meaning of "fragrant gold" (to paraphrase): any  
>> pa??it is of course gold, but a kind pa??it is fragrant gold.
>>
>> All the Best,
>> Victor
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing  
>> committee)
>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list  
>> options or unsubscribe)



-- 
Martin Straube
Research Fellow in Pali Lexicography
Pali Text Society

Philipps-Universit?t Marburg
Indologie und Tibetologie
Deutschhausstrasse 12
35032 Marburg
Germany






From j.jurewicz at uw.edu.pl  Mon Mar 30 11:02:26 2020
From: j.jurewicz at uw.edu.pl (Joanna Jurewicz)
Date: Mon, 30 Mar 20 13:02:26 +0200
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Retroflexion and gender in viruses
In-Reply-To: <7a4bf90a1293f9da32b569015514b902@univie.ac.at>
Message-ID: <CAAPrgboiQPshkPcmjxoKBG6FG6+-mn5h8gvSouiMGi1QNJF3VA@mail.gmail.com>

Wonderful,  I will learn it by heart! And will recite every morning ?


---

Prof. dr hab. Joanna Jurewicz

Katedra Azji Po?udniowej /Chair of South Asia

Wydzia? Orientalistyczny / Faculty of Oriental Studies

Uniwersytet Warszawski /University of Warsaw

ul. Krakowskie Przedmie?cie 26/28

00-927 Warszawa , Poland

Department of Linguistics and Modern Languages

College of Human Sciences

UNISA

Pretoria, RSA

Member of Academia Europaea

https://uw.academia.edu/JoannaJurewicz


pon., 30 mar 2020 o 11:43 Christian Ferstl via INDOLOGY <
indology at list.indology.info> napisa?(a):

> That is, writing Sanskrit - not Hindi -  we should prefer the spelling
> ??????. With the nirukti kora-?na this would denote something even less
> or smaller than a bud, no?
>
> Regarding Bh?maha, most of us would still prefer a grammatical error to
> a virus infection, I guess:
>
> ??? ????????? ?????? ??????? ?? ????????? ?
> ????????????????? ??? ??????? ????????? ?
> ????????????????? ??????? ????????? ?
>
> "A stanza a day keeps the virus away --
> even if there may be a grammatical error, which can easily be
> corrected."
> This was said by a friend of the kavis secluded in his own house.
>
> Just my two (and a half) cents.
> Best,
> Christian Ferstl
>
>
> Am 30.03.2020 11:02, schrieb John Lowe via INDOLOGY:
> > I don't currently have access to my books and papers, but I believe
> > for Panini the only optionality or exceptions to nati all involve
> > morphological boundaries - either nominal compounding, or preverb-verb
> > compounding.
> >
> > Are there any genuine examples of exceptions/optionality of nati not
> > involving a morphological boundary (parallel to the many exceptions to
> > ruki, like _kusuma-_)?
> >
> > If we could split Korona- into something like Kora-una-, then perhaps
> > we could have the optionality; but then again for Panini, the tendency
> > is that compounds forming names are more disposed to nati than freely
> > formed compounds, so even as a compound name we would expect the
> > retroflex, I think.
> >
> > John
> >
> > -------------------------
> >
> > From: INDOLOGY <indology-bounces at list.indology.info> on behalf of
> > Madhav Deshpande via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info>
> > Sent: 29 March 2020 05:22
> > To: Harry Spier <vasishtha.spier at gmail.com>
> > Cc: indology at list.indology.info <INDOLOGY at list.indology.info>
> > Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] Retroflexion and gender in viruses
> >
> > Dear Harry,
> >
> >      There are similar alternating usages found in Sanskrit as well
> > and authorized by Panini, for example -
> >
> > ????????????????????
> > ?????
> >
> > ???????????? - ????
> > ??????? ???????? ???
> > ???????? ??????????? ?
> > ?????????
> > ?????????????????
> > ????????? ???? ????? ????
> > ??????? ?????????????
> > ????? ??????????,
> > ??????????? ??????????,
> > ??????????? ???????????
> > ?????????, ??????????
> > ????????, ?????????
> >
> > Madhav M. Deshpande
> > Professor Emeritus, Sanskrit and Linguistics
> > University of Michigan, Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA
> > Senior Fellow, Oxford Center for Hindu Studies
> >
> > [Residence: Campbell, California, USA]
> >
> > On Sat, Mar 28, 2020 at 2:46 PM Harry Spier via INDOLOGY
> > <indology at list.indology.info> wrote:
> >
> >> Mathew Kapstein: ?????
> >> Others ??????
> >>
> >> On Sat, Mar 28, 2020 at 7:08 AM Matthew Kapstein via INDOLOGY
> >> <indology at list.indology.info> wrote:
> >>
> >>> With so many mah?kavi-s on this list, you will have to forgive
> >>> me this silly amateurism (with Tibetan translation):
> >>>
> >>> ???????????? ????????
> >>> ????????????????????
> >>> ???????????? ?? ????
> >>> ????????????
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> > ?????????????????????????
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> > ????????????????????????
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> > ????????????????????????
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> > ??????????????????????????
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Matthew
> >>>
> >>> Matthew Kapstein
> >>> Directeur d'?tudes, ?m?rite
> >>> Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes, Paris
> >>>
> >>> Numata Visiting Professor of Buddhist Studies,
> >>> The University of Chicago
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> INDOLOGY mailing list
> >>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> >>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
> >>> committee)
> >>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list
> >>> options or unsubscribe)
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> INDOLOGY mailing list
> >> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> >> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
> >> committee)
> >> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list
> >> options or unsubscribe)
> > _______________________________________________
> > INDOLOGY mailing list
> > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
> > committee)
> > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options
> > or unsubscribe)
>
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
> committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
> unsubscribe)
>


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From vbd203 at googlemail.com  Mon Mar 30 11:33:51 2020
From: vbd203 at googlemail.com (victor davella)
Date: Mon, 30 Mar 20 13:33:51 +0200
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Metrical inconsistencies and tradition
In-Reply-To: <CAJ3b0o_gwz0V4wumZkqi29PWtChUtUg0VHF808To7EYLCat7hg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAETY2G1XfzmtfpxhfkNz-_hz3shgmtNT1zF_dJh6NZmne-NmPA@mail.gmail.com>

Dear Harry,

I don't know very much about Vedic meter, but I think in general we must be
aware that we are not only dealing with a fairly long span of time but also
with changes in genre. The later point is very important for Sanskrit
during the classical period because texts continued to be written in
different genres that have different standards for grammar and meter. The
rules for K?vya are fairly strict and that is why commentators tend to
discuss, defend, reject, and at times accept (even if begrudgingly) various
anomalies. A few of these debates I have tried to follow somewhat
exhaustively (or rather ad nauseum) over the course of 1400 years and in as
many sources as I could access. I would emphasize two things: there is
usually great variety in how commentators understand certain forms, which
grammars/commentaries they hold to be authoritative, and how they interpret
P??ini's (or Candra's etc.) rules; 2. we have access to a fairly limited
amount of the discourse, especially if we think of how many millions of
people read and discussed mah?k?vyas like the Raghuva??a, so one should be
cautious with the interpretation of the data and generalizations.

When people wrote in very obviously non-standard Sanskrit, they generally
did so under the name of a great sage or with the claim of divine
revelation, etc. This gives the author more leeway to include archaisms and
other non-standard forms. The Bh?gavatapur??a is perhaps the greatest
example.

Specifically on meter, I don't know what the communis opinio is anymore,
but I recall that with the supernumerary syllables in Vedic meters---and
with other oddities---we should perhaps not be so quick to restore or label
such things as "wrong". In later times, the Vedas simply are and are not
subject to any rule or criticism. I don't believe we have any roughly
contemporaneous criticism of Vedic poets so it is difficult to know how
such meters were perceived at or around the time of their composition. For
classical k?vya-meter, I know of only one real issue that arrises from time
to time and that is the application of the muta cum liquida rule, i.e, that
a short vowel before consonant clusters like *pr* are counted as laghu. I
have spoken with some other colleagues who have noticed that it seems to
apply more frequently in Pur??ic-like texts and hope to write something
about, but perhaps an article already exists on the topic. In case this
should be of interest to anyone, I simply paste below the email I sent to
my students some time back.

All the Best,
Victor



Just a short note about meter. Thanks to a helpful conversation with
Vladimir the other day, it has come to my attention [ultimately from Haru]
that I should, for the sake of completeness, mention that the basic rules
for determining a guru syllable require an addendum. In the overwhelming
majority of cases, a short vowel followed by any two consonants will be
counted as metrically heavy (guru). However, there are a few rare
occurrences where we can apply the so-called *muta cum liquida* rule, which
might be familiar to some of you from Latin and Greek metrics. In short, a
stop plus *l *or *r *need not make the preceding syllable heavy, i.e., it
can be either laghu or guru. For example,

alb?n?que patr?s, atque altae moenia R?mae.

"And the Albanian fathers as well as the walls of lofty Rome"

Here *pa* is scanned as laghu before *tr* and the second foot is a dactyl
(= bha-ga?a).

In Sanskrit such an indulgence is rather rare and appears to be more
frequently applied in Prakrit poetry and "Epic" Sanskrit.  In the latter
case several types of consonant clusters do not cause the preceding
syllable to be guru. See Oberlies *A* *Grammar of Epic Sanskrit *p. XXXVII.
For Prakrit, see  Pr?k?tapi?galas?tra 1.4 (
https://archive.org/details/KavyamalaVol41PrakritaPingalasutraniOfLakshmanabhatta1894_201803)
and the examples in the commentary by Lak?m?n?tha Bha??a:

ceja sahaja tuh? ca?cal? sundarihradah? valanta /
paa? ?a ghallasi khalla?? k?lasi u?a uhlasanta //

"My heart! you are by nature fickle [yet] you've returned to the abyss of
this beauty. You do not set foot [anywhere else]. You fool! yet again you
play [there] trembling with delight."

The point beging that for the Doha meter (13-11-13-11 m?tr?s) to work, the
*i* before *hr* and the *u* before *hl* must be scanned laghu.

For Sanskrit, see V?ttarant?kara 1.10f. with the commentary of
Bha??an?r?ya?a. The k?rik? itself is rather restrictive (only before the
beginning of a p?da), but in the commentary, Bha??an?r?ya?a furnishes
additional examples from K?lid?sa  (Kum?sambhava 7.11b
g?h?tapratyudgaman?yavastr?) and M?gha (?i?up?lavadha 10.50a pr?pya
n?bhihradamajjanam ??u), as well as from the R?m?ya?a. In the examples,
which contain variant readings from standard editions, the *a* before *pra* and
the *i* before *hra *must be scanned laghu.

There are further discussions (Sarasvat?ka??h?bhara?a 1.123 and the
footnotes to Pi?gala's Chanda???stra pp. 4f., ed. Ked?ran?tha 1938),
and ?ara?adeva also mentions the problem as well as the variant reading of
?i?up?lavadha 10.60 with hrada in his Durgha?av?tti ad P. 1.4.11,  but ala?
vistare?a.



On Mon, Mar 30, 2020 at 12:27 AM Harry Spier via INDOLOGY <
indology at list.indology.info> wrote:

> Dear list members,
>
> Victor Davella wrote:
>
> . . .according to the standards as reported in sources spanning some 1600 years
> and very much still current today, it is absolutely necessary to adhere to
> grammatically correct Sanskrit and the rules of meter  . . .
>
> It also seems that earlier there wasn't so much a concern.
> Of the 12 Gayatri mantras at  Maitr?ya??-Sa?hit?  2-9-1, three of those
> gayatri mantras have extra syllables.
>
> And see this post of Madhav's
> http://list.indology.info/pipermail/indology_list.indology.info/2015-
> January/040590.html  which concludes:  the Br?hma?a texts were not
> bothered by deviations of meters up to two syllables".
>
> Why the change in attitude towards meter?
>
> Harry Spier
>
> tat puru??ya vidmahe mah?dev?ya dh?mahi /
>      tan no rudra? pracoday?t //
>
>      tad g??gaucy?ya vidmahe girisut?ya dh?mahi /
>      tan no gaur? pracoday?t //
>
>      tat kum?r?ya vidmahe k?rttikey?ya dh?mahi /
>      tan na? skanda? pracoday?t //
>
>      tat kar???ya vidmahe hastimukh?ya dh?mahi /
>      tan no dant? pracoday?t //
>
>      tac caturmukh?ya vidmahe padm?san?ya dh?mahi /
>      tan no brahm? pracoday?t //
>
>      tat ke?av?ya vidmahe n?r?ya??ya dh?mahi /
>      tan no vi??u? pracodayat //
>
>      tad bh?skar?ya vidmahe prabh?kar?ya dh?mahi /
>      tan no bh?nu? pracoday?t //
>
>      tat somar?j?ya vidmahe mah?r?j?ya dh?mahi /
>      tan na? candra? pracoday?t //
>
>      taj jvalan?ya vidmahe vai?v?nar?ya dh?mahi /
>      tan no vahni? pracoday?t //
>
>      tat tyajap?ya vidmahe mah?jap?ya dh?mahi /
>      tan no dhy?na? pracoday?t //
>
>      tat param?tm?ya vidmahe vainatey?ya dh?mahi /
>      tan na? s???i? pracoday?t //MS_2,9.1//
>
>
> and see this
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
> committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
> unsubscribe)
>


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From steiner at staff.uni-marburg.de  Mon Mar 30 12:30:44 2020
From: steiner at staff.uni-marburg.de (Roland Steiner)
Date: Mon, 30 Mar 20 14:30:44 +0200
Subject: [INDOLOGY] A distraction from the Coronavirus
In-Reply-To: <CALoZ1nXbWR3C4uwRU+PBcy+EWDE2niPPYiN5FZ=d-_UB9Y4E2g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20200330143044.Horde.sjKXMVbO1EOcFw4L7w0ZOEU@home.staff.uni-marburg.de>


> Rasikasaamaajikas will welcome your poems

Received from CC (July, 1903):

na rocate ced vidu?e kriy? te
vipratyay? t?? prati buddhir astu /
stuti? tu m?rkhasya sam?pya cintya?
h? dhik kriy? me viphal?k?teti //


vidyottam? putraka ??bda??stram
abhyasya t?? j??namah?prati??h?m /
prast?van?? adhyayanasya buddher
vivardhan?? c?rthavacomayatv?t //


With best regards,
RS






From dominik.haas at univie.ac.at  Mon Mar 30 12:44:22 2020
From: dominik.haas at univie.ac.at (Dominik Haas)
Date: Mon, 30 Mar 20 14:44:22 +0200
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Metrical inconsistencies and tradition
In-Reply-To: <CAJ3b0o_gwz0V4wumZkqi29PWtChUtUg0VHF808To7EYLCat7hg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <aca6dd9e-d6f4-6ae4-b35a-20e1a28b4f18@univie.ac.at>


Perhaps a short note on the modified ?G?yatr?s? in the 
Maitr?ya??-Sa?hit?: the creators of these verses simply inserted a 
certain deity without too much regard for metre. The non-adjusted 
accentuation perhaps also shows that the ?G?yatr?s? in this text are 
more pieced together than composed anew (/pracod?y?t/ is still accented, 
even though it's now the verb of a main clause ? or is there another 
explanation?). I wonder whether and where they are actually called 
G?yatr?s?

In any case, I think it's time for an anti-Corona G?yatr? ? unbrushed 
and with wrong accents as it should be:

/m?? savit?r dvi???ya? /
/kovidavi??? dh?mahi/ /
/t?t t? dev? 'pacod?y?t/ //

?May we not obtain the malevolent
poison for scholars from Savit?.
The god shall rather drive it away!?


Best regards,
D Haas



__________________
*Dominik A. Haas, BA MA*
PhD Candidate, University of Vienna
dominik.haas at univie.ac.at <mailto:dominik.haas at univie.ac.at>
ORCID 0000-0002-8505-6112 <https://orcid.org/0000-0002-8505-6112>
<https://univie.academia.edu/DominikHaas>
follow my work on
univie.academia.edu/DominikHaas 
<https://www.academia.edu/keypass/ZW5ZRXhKRStPR21EbjZXN2sycGJ3UTJBa3RXRmdzMS8xcUNsZ05BNFM1ST0tLVNHeXJFaks5aVNNTEpRb21BYkVKOFE9PQ==--e24213c0e3c20341d456d6e3cac8b41f86179746/t/QmyD-NHD76Sz-yeiD0/followings/follow?followee_id=8049457&s=following_you_bundled_email> 





Am 30.03.2020 um 00:26 schrieb Harry Spier via INDOLOGY:
> Dear list members,
>
> Victor Davella wrote:
>
> . . .according to the standards as reported in sources spanning some 
> 1600?years and very much still current today, it is absolutely 
> necessary to adhere to grammatically correct Sanskrit and the rules of 
> meter? . . .
>
> It also seems that earlier there wasn't so much a concern.
> Of the 12 Gayatri mantras at Maitr?ya??-Sa?hit? 2-9-1, three of those 
> gayatri mantras have extra syllables.
>
> And see this post of Madhav's 
> http://list.indology.info/pipermail/indology_list.indology.info/2015-January/040590.html 
> <http://list.indology.info/pipermail/indology_list.indology.info/2015-January/040590.html>? 
> which concludes: the Br?hma?a texts were not bothered by deviations of 
> meters up to two syllables".
> Why the change in attitude towards meter?
> Harry Spier
>
> tat puru??ya vidmahe mah?dev?ya dh?mahi /
> tan no rudra? pracoday?t //
>
> tad g??gaucy?ya vidmahe girisut?ya dh?mahi /
> tan no gaur? pracoday?t //
>
> tat kum?r?ya vidmahe k?rttikey?ya dh?mahi /
> tan na? skanda? pracoday?t //
>
> tat kar???ya vidmahe hastimukh?ya dh?mahi /
> tan no dant? pracoday?t //
>
> tac caturmukh?ya vidmahepadm?san?ya dh?mahi /
> tan no brahm? pracoday?t //
>
> tat ke?av?ya vidmahe n?r?ya??ya dh?mahi /
> tan no vi??u? pracodayat //
>
> tad bh?skar?ya vidmahe prabh?kar?ya dh?mahi /
> tan no bh?nu? pracoday?t //
>
> tat somar?j?ya vidmahe mah?r?j?ya dh?mahi /
> tan na? candra? pracoday?t //
>
> taj jvalan?ya vidmahe vai?v?nar?ya dh?mahi /
> tan no vahni? pracoday?t //
>
> tat tyajap?ya vidmahe mah?jap?ya dh?mahi /
> tan no dhy?na? pracoday?t //
>
> tat param?tm?ya vidmahevainatey?ya dh?mahi /
> tan na? s???i? pracoday?t //MS_2,9.1//
>
>
> and see this
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe)


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From nagarajpaturi at gmail.com  Mon Mar 30 12:53:40 2020
From: nagarajpaturi at gmail.com (Nagaraj Paturi)
Date: Mon, 30 Mar 20 18:23:40 +0530
Subject: [INDOLOGY] A distraction from the Coronavirus
In-Reply-To: <20200330143044.Horde.sjKXMVbO1EOcFw4L7w0ZOEU@home.staff.uni-marburg.de>
Message-ID: <CAJGj9eYA=HwrCQkC51uDm8KGZYRcRoTf4=hYUdUH5sS6u31uWA@mail.gmail.com>

??????? ??????????????????????????? ???????|
???????????????? ????????????????? ?????|
???????????????????????????????????????|
? ???????????????-???????-?????????????


On Mon, Mar 30, 2020 at 6:01 PM Roland Steiner via INDOLOGY <
indology at list.indology.info> wrote:

>
> > Rasikasaamaajikas will welcome your poems
>
> Received from CC (July, 1903):
>
> na rocate ced vidu?e kriy? te
> vipratyay? t?? prati buddhir astu /
> stuti? tu m?rkhasya sam?pya cintya?
> h? dhik kriy? me viphal?k?teti //
>
>
> vidyottam? putraka ??bda??stram
> abhyasya t?? j??namah?prati??h?m /
> prast?van?? adhyayanasya buddher
> vivardhan?? c?rthavacomayatv?t //
>
>
> With best regards,
> RS
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
> committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
> unsubscribe)
>


-- 
Nagaraj Paturi

Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.


Director,  Inter-Gurukula-University Centre , Indic Academy
BoS, MIT School of Vedic Sciences, Pune, Maharashtra
BoS, Chinmaya Vishwavidyapeeth, Veliyanad, Kerala
BoS Veda Vijnana Gurukula, Bengaluru.
Member, Advisory Council, Veda Vijnana Shodha Samsthanam, Bengaluru
Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies,
FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of  Liberal Education,
Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.


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From nagarajpaturi at gmail.com  Mon Mar 30 12:55:46 2020
From: nagarajpaturi at gmail.com (Nagaraj Paturi)
Date: Mon, 30 Mar 20 18:25:46 +0530
Subject: [INDOLOGY] A distraction from the Coronavirus
In-Reply-To: <CAJGj9eYA=HwrCQkC51uDm8KGZYRcRoTf4=hYUdUH5sS6u31uWA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAJGj9eYX3Pw_bUY+4Z2ZPgFBxZ0YPTqAR29EUWqDPwBth-H0zw@mail.gmail.com>

The version I pasted seems to have many spelling /typo issues. But the
verse is a well known one.

On Mon, Mar 30, 2020 at 6:23 PM Nagaraj Paturi <nagarajpaturi at gmail.com>
wrote:

> ??????? ??????????????????????????? ???????|
> ???????????????? ????????????????? ?????|
> ???????????????????????????????????????|
> ? ???????????????-???????-?????????????
>
>
> On Mon, Mar 30, 2020 at 6:01 PM Roland Steiner via INDOLOGY <
> indology at list.indology.info> wrote:
>
>>
>> > Rasikasaamaajikas will welcome your poems
>>
>> Received from CC (July, 1903):
>>
>> na rocate ced vidu?e kriy? te
>> vipratyay? t?? prati buddhir astu /
>> stuti? tu m?rkhasya sam?pya cintya?
>> h? dhik kriy? me viphal?k?teti //
>>
>>
>> vidyottam? putraka ??bda??stram
>> abhyasya t?? j??namah?prati??h?m /
>> prast?van?? adhyayanasya buddher
>> vivardhan?? c?rthavacomayatv?t //
>>
>>
>> With best regards,
>> RS
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
>> committee)
>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
>> unsubscribe)
>>
>
>
> --
> Nagaraj Paturi
>
> Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.
>
>
> Director,  Inter-Gurukula-University Centre , Indic Academy
> BoS, MIT School of Vedic Sciences, Pune, Maharashtra
> BoS, Chinmaya Vishwavidyapeeth, Veliyanad, Kerala
> BoS Veda Vijnana Gurukula, Bengaluru.
> Member, Advisory Council, Veda Vijnana Shodha Samsthanam, Bengaluru
> Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies,
> FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of  Liberal Education,
> Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.
>
>
>
>


-- 
Nagaraj Paturi

Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.


Director,  Inter-Gurukula-University Centre , Indic Academy
BoS, MIT School of Vedic Sciences, Pune, Maharashtra
BoS, Chinmaya Vishwavidyapeeth, Veliyanad, Kerala
BoS Veda Vijnana Gurukula, Bengaluru.
Member, Advisory Council, Veda Vijnana Shodha Samsthanam, Bengaluru
Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies,
FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of  Liberal Education,
Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.


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From mmdesh at umich.edu  Mon Mar 30 13:12:04 2020
From: mmdesh at umich.edu (Madhav Deshpande)
Date: Mon, 30 Mar 20 06:12:04 -0700
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Retroflexion and gender in viruses
In-Reply-To: <7a4bf90a1293f9da32b569015514b902@univie.ac.at>
Message-ID: <CAB3-dzdDS12KCm_Y0pEBggbLOq7PBvk+ZR=yNO-XPB4YDKtSUw@mail.gmail.com>

I don't know what P??ini would have done, koro??/koron?, masculine or
feminine.  There are exceptions to the retroflexion rules even in single
words  [as ???????????? ? ??????. ? ??? ??????? ???????? ???????? ?????
??????? ??????? ???????? ? ????? ???????????].  In any case, importing an
expression from a modern language into Sanskrit, one represents it as one
hears it around.  Around me here in San Jose, I don't hear the retroflex.
But either representation is fine with me.  In early Marathi writings, the
name of Mountstuart Elphinstone was written as ????? ??????????
??????????.  In more recent Marathi writings, I see ???? ????????
??????????, and the more Apabhramsha version was known as ?????? ?????. I
write ????????????.  No retroflexion there.

Madhav M. Deshpande
Professor Emeritus, Sanskrit and Linguistics
University of Michigan, Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA
Senior Fellow, Oxford Center for Hindu Studies

[Residence: Campbell, California, USA]


On Mon, Mar 30, 2020 at 2:43 AM Christian Ferstl <
christian.ferstl at univie.ac.at> wrote:

> That is, writing Sanskrit - not Hindi -  we should prefer the spelling
> ??????. With the nirukti kora-?na this would denote something even less
> or smaller than a bud, no?
>
> Regarding Bh?maha, most of us would still prefer a grammatical error to
> a virus infection, I guess:
>
> ??? ????????? ?????? ??????? ?? ????????? ?
> ????????????????? ??? ??????? ????????? ?
> ????????????????? ??????? ????????? ?
>
> "A stanza a day keeps the virus away --
> even if there may be a grammatical error, which can easily be
> corrected."
> This was said by a friend of the kavis secluded in his own house.
>
> Just my two (and a half) cents.
> Best,
> Christian Ferstl
>
>
> Am 30.03.2020 11:02, schrieb John Lowe via INDOLOGY:
> > I don't currently have access to my books and papers, but I believe
> > for Panini the only optionality or exceptions to nati all involve
> > morphological boundaries - either nominal compounding, or preverb-verb
> > compounding.
> >
> > Are there any genuine examples of exceptions/optionality of nati not
> > involving a morphological boundary (parallel to the many exceptions to
> > ruki, like _kusuma-_)?
> >
> > If we could split Korona- into something like Kora-una-, then perhaps
> > we could have the optionality; but then again for Panini, the tendency
> > is that compounds forming names are more disposed to nati than freely
> > formed compounds, so even as a compound name we would expect the
> > retroflex, I think.
> >
> > John
> >
> > -------------------------
> >
> > From: INDOLOGY <indology-bounces at list.indology.info> on behalf of
> > Madhav Deshpande via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info>
> > Sent: 29 March 2020 05:22
> > To: Harry Spier <vasishtha.spier at gmail.com>
> > Cc: indology at list.indology.info <INDOLOGY at list.indology.info>
> > Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] Retroflexion and gender in viruses
> >
> > Dear Harry,
> >
> >      There are similar alternating usages found in Sanskrit as well
> > and authorized by Panini, for example -
> >
> > ????????????????????
> > ?????
> >
> > ???????????? - ????
> > ??????? ???????? ???
> > ???????? ??????????? ?
> > ?????????
> > ?????????????????
> > ????????? ???? ????? ????
> > ??????? ?????????????
> > ????? ??????????,
> > ??????????? ??????????,
> > ??????????? ???????????
> > ?????????, ??????????
> > ????????, ?????????
> >
> > Madhav M. Deshpande
> > Professor Emeritus, Sanskrit and Linguistics
> > University of Michigan, Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA
> > Senior Fellow, Oxford Center for Hindu Studies
> >
> > [Residence: Campbell, California, USA]
> >
> > On Sat, Mar 28, 2020 at 2:46 PM Harry Spier via INDOLOGY
> > <indology at list.indology.info> wrote:
> >
> >> Mathew Kapstein: ?????
> >> Others ??????
> >>
> >> On Sat, Mar 28, 2020 at 7:08 AM Matthew Kapstein via INDOLOGY
> >> <indology at list.indology.info> wrote:
> >>
> >>> With so many mah?kavi-s on this list, you will have to forgive
> >>> me this silly amateurism (with Tibetan translation):
> >>>
> >>> ???????????? ????????
> >>> ????????????????????
> >>> ???????????? ?? ????
> >>> ????????????
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> > ?????????????????????????
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> > ????????????????????????
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> > ????????????????????????
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> > ??????????????????????????
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Matthew
> >>>
> >>> Matthew Kapstein
> >>> Directeur d'?tudes, ?m?rite
> >>> Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes, Paris
> >>>
> >>> Numata Visiting Professor of Buddhist Studies,
> >>> The University of Chicago
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> INDOLOGY mailing list
> >>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> >>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
> >>> committee)
> >>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list
> >>> options or unsubscribe)
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> INDOLOGY mailing list
> >> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> >> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
> >> committee)
> >> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list
> >> options or unsubscribe)
> > _______________________________________________
> > INDOLOGY mailing list
> > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
> > committee)
> > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options
> > or unsubscribe)
>


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From mmdesh at umich.edu  Mon Mar 30 13:32:34 2020
From: mmdesh at umich.edu (Madhav Deshpande)
Date: Mon, 30 Mar 20 06:32:34 -0700
Subject: [INDOLOGY] A distraction from the Coronavirus
Message-ID: <CAB3-dzeZDyUk4aoWyUn-Ub-vAO+8XD2zJcL9LSh3_y8OQ3EZEw@mail.gmail.com>

A distraction from the Coronavirus

??????????????????? ? ????????? ??????? ?
????? ?????????????????????????? ??????? ??

Ravana said:
?Scared of contacting the Coronavirus, I will not abduct Sita. Once it goes
away, I will return quickly.?

Madhav M. Deshpande
Professor Emeritus, Sanskrit and Linguistics
University of Michigan, Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA
Senior Fellow, Oxford Center for Hindu Studies

[Residence: Campbell, California, USA]


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From vbd203 at googlemail.com  Mon Mar 30 14:11:31 2020
From: vbd203 at googlemail.com (victor davella)
Date: Mon, 30 Mar 20 16:11:31 +0200
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Metrical inconsistencies and tradition
In-Reply-To: <CAJ3b0o_gwz0V4wumZkqi29PWtChUtUg0VHF808To7EYLCat7hg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAETY2G1Q_XtJBsQ231cJGuZ1-jU=ve0gXtWh=xyz49Kyy3Ys2w@mail.gmail.com>

I must also mention Gary Tubb's article on B??a, where some metrical
problems are discussed, "The Boldness of B??a" in the "K?vya Book", pp.
308--354.

All the Best,
Victor

Harry Spier via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info> schrieb am Mo., 30.
M?rz 2020, 00:27:

> Dear list members,
>
> Victor Davella wrote:
>
> . . .according to the standards as reported in sources spanning some 1600 years
> and very much still current today, it is absolutely necessary to adhere to
> grammatically correct Sanskrit and the rules of meter  . . .
>
> It also seems that earlier there wasn't so much a concern.
> Of the 12 Gayatri mantras at  Maitr?ya??-Sa?hit?  2-9-1, three of those
> gayatri mantras have extra syllables.
>
> And see this post of Madhav's
> http://list.indology.info/pipermail/indology_list.indology.info/2015-
> January/040590.html  which concludes:  the Br?hma?a texts were not
> bothered by deviations of meters up to two syllables".
>
> Why the change in attitude towards meter?
>
> Harry Spier
>
> tat puru??ya vidmahe mah?dev?ya dh?mahi /
>      tan no rudra? pracoday?t //
>
>      tad g??gaucy?ya vidmahe girisut?ya dh?mahi /
>      tan no gaur? pracoday?t //
>
>      tat kum?r?ya vidmahe k?rttikey?ya dh?mahi /
>      tan na? skanda? pracoday?t //
>
>      tat kar???ya vidmahe hastimukh?ya dh?mahi /
>      tan no dant? pracoday?t //
>
>      tac caturmukh?ya vidmahe padm?san?ya dh?mahi /
>      tan no brahm? pracoday?t //
>
>      tat ke?av?ya vidmahe n?r?ya??ya dh?mahi /
>      tan no vi??u? pracodayat //
>
>      tad bh?skar?ya vidmahe prabh?kar?ya dh?mahi /
>      tan no bh?nu? pracoday?t //
>
>      tat somar?j?ya vidmahe mah?r?j?ya dh?mahi /
>      tan na? candra? pracoday?t //
>
>      taj jvalan?ya vidmahe vai?v?nar?ya dh?mahi /
>      tan no vahni? pracoday?t //
>
>      tat tyajap?ya vidmahe mah?jap?ya dh?mahi /
>      tan no dhy?na? pracoday?t //
>
>      tat param?tm?ya vidmahe vainatey?ya dh?mahi /
>      tan na? s???i? pracoday?t //MS_2,9.1//
>
>
> and see this
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
> committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
> unsubscribe)
>


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From john.lowe at orinst.ox.ac.uk  Mon Mar 30 14:12:38 2020
From: john.lowe at orinst.ox.ac.uk (John Lowe)
Date: Mon, 30 Mar 20 14:12:38 +0000
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Retroflexion and gender in viruses
In-Reply-To: <CAB3-dzdDS12KCm_Y0pEBggbLOq7PBvk+ZR=yNO-XPB4YDKtSUw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <LO2P265MB01128654336DF1992D6E6A14FECB0@LO2P265MB0112.GBRP265.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>

Thanks a lot - k?ubhn?ti is close, though there is also a morphological break of a different sort there, I suppose. And I think there are no other words in that ga?a where we are dealing with an exception to nati within a word, it is all (except k?ubh-n?) about words that don't have nati when in compound. The ga?a as a whole appears to be a list of inexplicable exceptions to the general rules, but there is nothing quite like Korona.

I think people adapt borrowings to the constraints of their native phonology. P??ini would have been able to pronounce it Korona with dental, but if the rules of Sanskrit do not allow exceptions to nati in monomorphemic stems, and only rarely in morphologically complex stems, Korona would be alien to the natural rules of Sanskrit. But perhaps with such an awful thing it's better to keep it alien!

Are there any examples of post-P??inian borrowings into Sanskrit, preferably unsegmentable nominal stems, where nati was not applied according to the regular rules?

Best wishes,
John

________________________________
From: Madhav Deshpande <mmdesh at umich.edu>
Sent: 30 March 2020 14:12
To: Christian Ferstl <christian.ferstl at univie.ac.at>
Cc: John Lowe <john.lowe at orinst.ox.ac.uk>; indology <indology at list.indology.info>
Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] Retroflexion and gender in viruses

I don't know what P??ini would have done, koro??/koron?, masculine or feminine.  There are exceptions to the retroflexion rules even in single words  [as ???????????? ? ??????. ? ??? ??????? ???????? ???????? ????? ??????? ??????? ???????? ? ????? ???????????].  In any case, importing an expression from a modern language into Sanskrit, one represents it as one hears it around.  Around me here in San Jose, I don't hear the retroflex.  But either representation is fine with me.  In early Marathi writings, the name of Mountstuart Elphinstone was written as ????? ?????????? ??????????.  In more recent Marathi writings, I see ???? ???????? ??????????, and the more Apabhramsha version was known as ?????? ?????. I write ????????????.  No retroflexion there.

Madhav M. Deshpande
Professor Emeritus, Sanskrit and Linguistics
University of Michigan, Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA
Senior Fellow, Oxford Center for Hindu Studies

[Residence: Campbell, California, USA]


On Mon, Mar 30, 2020 at 2:43 AM Christian Ferstl <christian.ferstl at univie.ac.at<mailto:christian.ferstl at univie.ac.at>> wrote:
That is, writing Sanskrit - not Hindi -  we should prefer the spelling
??????. With the nirukti kora-?na this would denote something even less
or smaller than a bud, no?

Regarding Bh?maha, most of us would still prefer a grammatical error to
a virus infection, I guess:

??? ????????? ?????? ??????? ?? ????????? ?
????????????????? ??? ??????? ????????? ?
????????????????? ??????? ????????? ?

"A stanza a day keeps the virus away --
even if there may be a grammatical error, which can easily be
corrected."
This was said by a friend of the kavis secluded in his own house.

Just my two (and a half) cents.
Best,
Christian Ferstl


Am 30.03.2020 11:02, schrieb John Lowe via INDOLOGY:
> I don't currently have access to my books and papers, but I believe
> for Panini the only optionality or exceptions to nati all involve
> morphological boundaries - either nominal compounding, or preverb-verb
> compounding.
>
> Are there any genuine examples of exceptions/optionality of nati not
> involving a morphological boundary (parallel to the many exceptions to
> ruki, like _kusuma-_)?
>
> If we could split Korona- into something like Kora-una-, then perhaps
> we could have the optionality; but then again for Panini, the tendency
> is that compounds forming names are more disposed to nati than freely
> formed compounds, so even as a compound name we would expect the
> retroflex, I think.
>
> John
>
> -------------------------
>
> From: INDOLOGY <indology-bounces at list.indology.info<mailto:indology-bounces at list.indology.info>> on behalf of
> Madhav Deshpande via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info<mailto:indology at list.indology.info>>
> Sent: 29 March 2020 05:22
> To: Harry Spier <vasishtha.spier at gmail.com<mailto:vasishtha.spier at gmail.com>>
> Cc: indology at list.indology.info<mailto:indology at list.indology.info> <INDOLOGY at list.indology.info<mailto:INDOLOGY at list.indology.info>>
> Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] Retroflexion and gender in viruses
>
> Dear Harry,
>
>      There are similar alternating usages found in Sanskrit as well
> and authorized by Panini, for example -
>
> ????????????????????
> ?????
>
> ???????????? - ????
> ??????? ???????? ???
> ???????? ??????????? ?
> ?????????
> ?????????????????
> ????????? ???? ????? ????
> ??????? ?????????????
> ????? ??????????,
> ??????????? ??????????,
> ??????????? ???????????
> ?????????, ??????????
> ????????, ?????????
>
> Madhav M. Deshpande
> Professor Emeritus, Sanskrit and Linguistics
> University of Michigan, Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA
> Senior Fellow, Oxford Center for Hindu Studies
>
> [Residence: Campbell, California, USA]
>
> On Sat, Mar 28, 2020 at 2:46 PM Harry Spier via INDOLOGY
> <indology at list.indology.info<mailto:indology at list.indology.info>> wrote:
>
>> Mathew Kapstein: ?????
>> Others ??????
>>
>> On Sat, Mar 28, 2020 at 7:08 AM Matthew Kapstein via INDOLOGY
>> <indology at list.indology.info<mailto:indology at list.indology.info>> wrote:
>>
>>> With so many mah?kavi-s on this list, you will have to forgive
>>> me this silly amateurism (with Tibetan translation):
>>>
>>> ???????????? ????????
>>> ????????????????????
>>> ???????????? ?? ????
>>> ????????????
>>>
>>>
>>
> ?????????????????????????
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
> ????????????????????????
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
> ????????????????????????
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
> ??????????????????????????
>>>
>>>
>>> Matthew
>>>
>>> Matthew Kapstein
>>> Directeur d'?tudes, ?m?rite
>>> Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes, Paris
>>>
>>> Numata Visiting Professor of Buddhist Studies,
>>> The University of Chicago
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info<mailto:INDOLOGY at list.indology.info>
>>> indology-owner at list.indology.info<mailto:indology-owner at list.indology.info> (messages to the list's managing
>>> committee)
>>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list
>>> options or unsubscribe)
>> _______________________________________________
>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info<mailto:INDOLOGY at list.indology.info>
>> indology-owner at list.indology.info<mailto:indology-owner at list.indology.info> (messages to the list's managing
>> committee)
>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list
>> options or unsubscribe)
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info<mailto:INDOLOGY at list.indology.info>
> indology-owner at list.indology.info<mailto:indology-owner at list.indology.info> (messages to the list's managing
> committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options
> or unsubscribe)


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From steiner at staff.uni-marburg.de  Mon Mar 30 14:38:49 2020
From: steiner at staff.uni-marburg.de (Roland Steiner)
Date: Mon, 30 Mar 20 16:38:49 +0200
Subject: [INDOLOGY] A distraction from the Coronavirus
In-Reply-To: <CAJGj9eYX3Pw_bUY+4Z2ZPgFBxZ0YPTqAR29EUWqDPwBth-H0zw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20200330163849.Horde.A_M7t27i2dRrYm4q2_nEg3-@home.staff.uni-marburg.de>

> The version I pasted seems to have many spelling /typo issues. But the
> verse is a well known one.

Indeed.

prasahya ma?im uddharen makaravaktrada???r?ntar?t
samudram api sa?taret pracalad ?rmim?l?kulam |
bhuja?gam api kopita? ?irasi pu?pavad dh?rayet
na tu pratinivi??am?rkhajanacittam ?r?dhayet //

(Bhart?hari, /N?ti?ataka/, ed. Kosambi 1946: 1.4; ed. Kosambi 1948: 1.9)

My revered teacher Michael Hahn, myself and other colleagues in  
Marburg had started sometime in the early 1990s to translate selected  
Bhart?hari verses into German, including this one:

? Gewaltsam mag man einen Edelstein
? ? dem Maule eines Krokodils entrei?en,
? Den Ozean selbst ?berqueren,
? ? von ungest?men Wellenkr?nzen aufgew?hlt,
? Und auch die zornentbrannte Schlange
? ? wie eine Blume auf dem Kopfe tragen --
? Nicht aber wird man je
? ? das Herz verstockter Narren ?berzeugen.

With kind regards,
Roland Steiner


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From vasishtha.spier at gmail.com  Mon Mar 30 15:17:29 2020
From: vasishtha.spier at gmail.com (Harry Spier)
Date: Mon, 30 Mar 20 11:17:29 -0400
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Metrical inconsistencies and tradition
In-Reply-To: <aca6dd9e-d6f4-6ae4-b35a-20e1a28b4f18@univie.ac.at>
Message-ID: <CAJ3b0o9f2WmHb_=q4VoexNShn4vepfO2PdWDziq-bweuF7VG+g@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Mar 30, 2020 at 8:45 AM Dominik Haas via INDOLOGY <
indology at list.indology.info> wrote:

>
> Perhaps a short note on the modified ?G?yatr?s? in the Maitr?ya??-Sa?hit?:
> the creators of these verses simply inserted a certain deity without too
> much regard for metre. The non-adjusted accentuation perhaps also shows
> that the ?G?yatr?s? in this text are more pieced together than composed
> anew (*pracod?y?t* is still accented, even though it's now the verb of a
> main clause ? or is there another explanation?).
>
Thank you for this Dominik.

The author in the following link, for the reasons you've mentioned and
because the gayatris are  mostly to later deities, argues that this section
of the  Maitr?ya??-Sa?hit?:   is interpolated:
https://books.google.ca/books?id=X0JUwf2BXVAC&pg=PA57&lpg=PA57&dq=maitrayani+samhita+x.9.1&source=bl&ots=zfBpMv9w-q&sig=ACfU3U2LME_WHFLc9K4mr4lvOD8UVoCkEg&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiIuojYs8LoAhUImuAKHYHQDPEQ6AEwAHoECAkQAQ#v=onepage&q=maitrayani%20samhita%20x.9.1&f=false

You also asked:
 I wonder whether and where they are actually called G?yatr?s?

If you do a search of the Muktabodha searchable e-text  digital library
for <gAyatrI> you'll see that throughout the tantric literature these types
of mantras are called   g?yatr? or g?yatr?matra or  the deity name
compounded with  g?yatr?  such as: n?si?hag?yatr?  etc. If I recall
correctly they are called  g?yatr? much more often than  g?yatr?mantra.

Harry Spier


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From vbd203 at googlemail.com  Mon Mar 30 15:49:33 2020
From: vbd203 at googlemail.com (victor davella)
Date: Mon, 30 Mar 20 17:49:33 +0200
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Retroflexion and gender in viruses
In-Reply-To: <LO2P265MB01128654336DF1992D6E6A14FECB0@LO2P265MB0112.GBRP265.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
Message-ID: <CAETY2G0JnDwjtMbgSUkcwj8boEQ67V3ugmgpNE_qwZOWy-M2cQ@mail.gmail.com>

The other issue worth debating is the initial syllable  ??, which
should be long based on the script. In many other Indian languages,
both Dravidian and Indo-Aryan, the initial vowel is short:
???????????  ??????????? ??????????? ????? ?????  ????? ?????
???????????.  The short vowel seems more faithful to English
pronunciation and the Latin original (cor?na).  Is the spelling in
Devan?gar? based on the equivalency of o = ? (?).

All the Best,
Victor




On Mon, Mar 30, 2020 at 4:13 PM John Lowe via INDOLOGY
<indology at list.indology.info> wrote:
>
> Thanks a lot - k?ubhn?ti is close, though there is also a morphological break of a different sort there, I suppose. And I think there are no other words in that ga?a where we are dealing with an exception to nati within a word, it is all (except k?ubh-n?) about words that don't have nati when in compound. The ga?a as a whole appears to be a list of inexplicable exceptions to the general rules, but there is nothing quite like Korona.
>
> I think people adapt borrowings to the constraints of their native phonology. P??ini would have been able to pronounce it Korona with dental, but if the rules of Sanskrit do not allow exceptions to nati in monomorphemic stems, and only rarely in morphologically complex stems, Korona would be alien to the natural rules of Sanskrit. But perhaps with such an awful thing it's better to keep it alien!
>
> Are there any examples of post-P??inian borrowings into Sanskrit, preferably unsegmentable nominal stems, where nati was not applied according to the regular rules?
>
> Best wishes,
> John
>
> ________________________________
> From: Madhav Deshpande <mmdesh at umich.edu>
> Sent: 30 March 2020 14:12
> To: Christian Ferstl <christian.ferstl at univie.ac.at>
> Cc: John Lowe <john.lowe at orinst.ox.ac.uk>; indology <indology at list.indology.info>
> Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] Retroflexion and gender in viruses
>
> I don't know what P??ini would have done, koro??/koron?, masculine or feminine.  There are exceptions to the retroflexion rules even in single words  [as ???????????? ? ??????. ? ??? ??????? ???????? ???????? ????? ??????? ??????? ???????? ? ????? ???????????].  In any case, importing an expression from a modern language into Sanskrit, one represents it as one hears it around.  Around me here in San Jose, I don't hear the retroflex.  But either representation is fine with me.  In early Marathi writings, the name of Mountstuart Elphinstone was written as ????? ?????????? ??????????.  In more recent Marathi writings, I see ???? ???????? ??????????, and the more Apabhramsha version was known as ?????? ?????. I write ????????????.  No retroflexion there.
>
> Madhav M. Deshpande
> Professor Emeritus, Sanskrit and Linguistics
> University of Michigan, Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA
> Senior Fellow, Oxford Center for Hindu Studies
>
> [Residence: Campbell, California, USA]
>
>
> On Mon, Mar 30, 2020 at 2:43 AM Christian Ferstl <christian.ferstl at univie.ac.at> wrote:
>
> That is, writing Sanskrit - not Hindi -  we should prefer the spelling
> ??????. With the nirukti kora-?na this would denote something even less
> or smaller than a bud, no?
>
> Regarding Bh?maha, most of us would still prefer a grammatical error to
> a virus infection, I guess:
>
> ??? ????????? ?????? ??????? ?? ????????? ?
> ????????????????? ??? ??????? ????????? ?
> ????????????????? ??????? ????????? ?
>
> "A stanza a day keeps the virus away --
> even if there may be a grammatical error, which can easily be
> corrected."
> This was said by a friend of the kavis secluded in his own house.
>
> Just my two (and a half) cents.
> Best,
> Christian Ferstl
>
>
> Am 30.03.2020 11:02, schrieb John Lowe via INDOLOGY:
> > I don't currently have access to my books and papers, but I believe
> > for Panini the only optionality or exceptions to nati all involve
> > morphological boundaries - either nominal compounding, or preverb-verb
> > compounding.
> >
> > Are there any genuine examples of exceptions/optionality of nati not
> > involving a morphological boundary (parallel to the many exceptions to
> > ruki, like _kusuma-_)?
> >
> > If we could split Korona- into something like Kora-una-, then perhaps
> > we could have the optionality; but then again for Panini, the tendency
> > is that compounds forming names are more disposed to nati than freely
> > formed compounds, so even as a compound name we would expect the
> > retroflex, I think.
> >
> > John
> >
> > -------------------------
> >
> > From: INDOLOGY <indology-bounces at list.indology.info> on behalf of
> > Madhav Deshpande via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info>
> > Sent: 29 March 2020 05:22
> > To: Harry Spier <vasishtha.spier at gmail.com>
> > Cc: indology at list.indology.info <INDOLOGY at list.indology.info>
> > Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] Retroflexion and gender in viruses
> >
> > Dear Harry,
> >
> >      There are similar alternating usages found in Sanskrit as well
> > and authorized by Panini, for example -
> >
> > ????????????????????
> > ?????
> >
> > ???????????? - ????
> > ??????? ???????? ???
> > ???????? ??????????? ?
> > ?????????
> > ?????????????????
> > ????????? ???? ????? ????
> > ??????? ?????????????
> > ????? ??????????,
> > ??????????? ??????????,
> > ??????????? ???????????
> > ?????????, ??????????
> > ????????, ?????????
> >
> > Madhav M. Deshpande
> > Professor Emeritus, Sanskrit and Linguistics
> > University of Michigan, Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA
> > Senior Fellow, Oxford Center for Hindu Studies
> >
> > [Residence: Campbell, California, USA]
> >
> > On Sat, Mar 28, 2020 at 2:46 PM Harry Spier via INDOLOGY
> > <indology at list.indology.info> wrote:
> >
> >> Mathew Kapstein: ?????
> >> Others ??????
> >>
> >> On Sat, Mar 28, 2020 at 7:08 AM Matthew Kapstein via INDOLOGY
> >> <indology at list.indology.info> wrote:
> >>
> >>> With so many mah?kavi-s on this list, you will have to forgive
> >>> me this silly amateurism (with Tibetan translation):
> >>>
> >>> ???????????? ????????
> >>> ????????????????????
> >>> ???????????? ?? ????
> >>> ????????????
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> > ?????????????????????????
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> > ????????????????????????
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> > ????????????????????????
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> > ??????????????????????????
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Matthew
> >>>
> >>> Matthew Kapstein
> >>> Directeur d'?tudes, ?m?rite
> >>> Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes, Paris
> >>>
> >>> Numata Visiting Professor of Buddhist Studies,
> >>> The University of Chicago
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> INDOLOGY mailing list
> >>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> >>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
> >>> committee)
> >>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list
> >>> options or unsubscribe)
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> INDOLOGY mailing list
> >> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> >> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
> >> committee)
> >> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list
> >> options or unsubscribe)
> > _______________________________________________
> > INDOLOGY mailing list
> > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
> > committee)
> > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options
> > or unsubscribe)
>
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe)




From dominik.haas at univie.ac.at  Mon Mar 30 15:50:59 2020
From: dominik.haas at univie.ac.at (Dominik Haas)
Date: Mon, 30 Mar 20 17:50:59 +0200
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Metrical inconsistencies and tradition
In-Reply-To: <CAJ3b0o9f2WmHb_=q4VoexNShn4vepfO2PdWDziq-bweuF7VG+g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <57b91410-3b24-a4f0-2f83-3596a2d60deb@univie.ac.at>

Dear Harry,

thanks a lot for the reference, didn't know this one! Even the wrong 
accent is noted there already.

Well yes, mantras like these were called G?yatr?s. The matter is a bit 
complicated though. As far as I have come to understand it, they were 
called thus because they imitate the famous G?yatr? verse (?gveda III 
62.10) or are modified versions of it. But this verse acquired the name 
?G?yatr?? rather late (considering its own age), for the first time 
perhaps in the Taittir?ya-?ra?yaka and then also in later additions the 
Dharmas?tras (in the Mah?bharata, too, the verse is called G?yatr? 
several times, especially in the later strata).

So the point is that the modified G?yatr?s were perhaps never actually 
thought to be in the /g?yatr?/ metre (not even by its creators, whenever 
they lived), but were only called G?yatr? because they resemble the 
verse. I normally use /g?yatr? /for the metre and G?yatr? for the verse 
(I did not do so in my previous email though). So the modified G?yatr?s 
are probably not examples for metrical license, i.e., they are not 
/g?yatr?/ verses, even though they are called G?yatr?s.

But it could very well be that some commentator explained them to be in 
the /g?yatr?/ metre, but a /g?yatr?/ metre with extra syllables etc.

Best regards,

Dominik


__________________
*Dominik A. Haas, BA MA*
PhD Candidate, University of Vienna
dominik.haas at univie.ac.at <mailto:dominik.haas at univie.ac.at>
ORCID 0000-0002-8505-6112 <https://orcid.org/0000-0002-8505-6112>
<https://univie.academia.edu/DominikHaas>
follow my work on
univie.academia.edu/DominikHaas 
<https://www.academia.edu/keypass/ZW5ZRXhKRStPR21EbjZXN2sycGJ3UTJBa3RXRmdzMS8xcUNsZ05BNFM1ST0tLVNHeXJFaks5aVNNTEpRb21BYkVKOFE9PQ==--e24213c0e3c20341d456d6e3cac8b41f86179746/t/QmyD-NHD76Sz-yeiD0/followings/follow?followee_id=8049457&s=following_you_bundled_email> 


>
>
> On Mon, Mar 30, 2020 at 8:45 AM Dominik Haas via INDOLOGY 
> <indology at list.indology.info <mailto:indology at list.indology.info>> wrote:
>
>
>     Perhaps a short note on the modified ?G?yatr?s? in the
>     Maitr?ya??-Sa?hit?: the creators of these verses simply inserted a
>     certain deity without too much regard for metre. The non-adjusted
>     accentuation perhaps also shows that the ?G?yatr?s? in this text
>     are more pieced together than composed anew (/pracod?y?t/ is still
>     accented, even though it's now the verb of a main clause ? or is
>     there another explanation?).
>
> Thank you for this Dominik.
>
> The author in the following link, for the reasons you've mentioned and 
> because the gayatris are? mostly to later deities, argues that this 
> section of the Maitr?ya??-Sa?hit?:???is interpolated: 
> https://books.google.ca/books?id=X0JUwf2BXVAC&pg=PA57&lpg=PA57&dq=maitrayani+samhita+x.9.1&source=bl&ots=zfBpMv9w-q&sig=ACfU3U2LME_WHFLc9K4mr4lvOD8UVoCkEg&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiIuojYs8LoAhUImuAKHYHQDPEQ6AEwAHoECAkQAQ#v=onepage&q=maitrayani%20samhita%20x.9.1&f=false
> You also asked:
> ?I wonder whether and where they are actually called G?yatr?s?
>
> If you do a search of the Muktabodha searchable e-text digital library 
> for <gAyatrI> you'll see that throughout the tantric literature these 
> types of mantras are called g?yatr? or g?yatr?matra or? the deity name 
> compounded with g?yatr?? such as: n?si?hag?yatr?? etc. If I recall 
> correctly they are called g?yatr? much more often than g?yatr?mantra.
>
> Harry Spier
>
>


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From mmdesh at umich.edu  Mon Mar 30 15:59:39 2020
From: mmdesh at umich.edu (Madhav Deshpande)
Date: Mon, 30 Mar 20 08:59:39 -0700
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Retroflexion and gender in viruses
In-Reply-To: <LO2P265MB01128654336DF1992D6E6A14FECB0@LO2P265MB0112.GBRP265.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
Message-ID: <CAB3-dzdKA-S33We9JkfdweiZ34_Uz=DH4uvbrX7GAO+fRoE+ew@mail.gmail.com>

Very stimulating discussion, John.  By the way, the ???????????? is a
so-called ???????, and Patanjali includes the expression ????? in this
Ga?a.  In any case, my point is that there are exceptions to rules in
P??ini, and this becomes an issue with loan vocabulary.  A good example
that comes to my mind is the Marathi name ???????, the mother of king
Shivaji.  In Sanskrit dramas and epics written on Shivaji's life in the
last few centuries, she is represented by words like ????????.  However,
when it comes to pronunciation, the Marathi word ???? is not like Sanskrit
?.  While ? in ?? is palatal like Sanskrit, ? in ?? is an alveolar.  In
Sanskrit renderings that I have heard in Pune, the Marathi distinction is
retained, because her identity is otherwise lost at least to Marathi
listeners.

Madhav M. Deshpande
Professor Emeritus, Sanskrit and Linguistics
University of Michigan, Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA
Senior Fellow, Oxford Center for Hindu Studies

[Residence: Campbell, California, USA]


On Mon, Mar 30, 2020 at 7:12 AM John Lowe <john.lowe at orinst.ox.ac.uk> wrote:

> Thanks a lot - k?ubhn?ti is close, though there is also a morphological
> break of a different sort there, I suppose. And I think there are no other
> words in that ga?a where we are dealing with an exception to nati within a
> word, it is all (except k?ubh-n?) about words that don't have nati when in
> compound. The ga?a as a whole appears to be a list of inexplicable
> exceptions to the general rules, but there is nothing quite like Korona.
>
> I think people adapt borrowings to the constraints of their native
> phonology. P??ini would have been able to pronounce it Korona with
> dental, but if the rules of Sanskrit do not allow exceptions to nati in
> monomorphemic stems, and only rarely in morphologically complex stems,
> Korona would be alien to the natural rules of Sanskrit. But perhaps with
> such an awful thing it's better to keep it alien!
>
> Are there any examples of post-P??inian borrowings into Sanskrit,
> preferably unsegmentable nominal stems, where nati was not applied
> according to the regular rules?
>
> Best wishes,
> John
>
> ------------------------------
> *From:* Madhav Deshpande <mmdesh at umich.edu>
> *Sent:* 30 March 2020 14:12
> *To:* Christian Ferstl <christian.ferstl at univie.ac.at>
> *Cc:* John Lowe <john.lowe at orinst.ox.ac.uk>; indology <
> indology at list.indology.info>
> *Subject:* Re: [INDOLOGY] Retroflexion and gender in viruses
>
> I don't know what P??ini would have done, koro??/koron?, masculine or
> feminine.  There are exceptions to the retroflexion rules even in single
> words  [as ???????????? ? ??????. ? ??? ??????? ???????? ???????? ?????
> ??????? ??????? ???????? ? ????? ???????????].  In any case, importing an
> expression from a modern language into Sanskrit, one represents it as one
> hears it around.  Around me here in San Jose, I don't hear the retroflex.
> But either representation is fine with me.  In early Marathi writings, the
> name of Mountstuart Elphinstone was written as ????? ??????????
> ??????????.  In more recent Marathi writings, I see ???? ????????
> ??????????, and the more Apabhramsha version was known as ?????? ?????. I
> write ????????????.  No retroflexion there.
>
> Madhav M. Deshpande
> Professor Emeritus, Sanskrit and Linguistics
> University of Michigan, Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA
> Senior Fellow, Oxford Center for Hindu Studies
>
> [Residence: Campbell, California, USA]
>
>
> On Mon, Mar 30, 2020 at 2:43 AM Christian Ferstl <
> christian.ferstl at univie.ac.at> wrote:
>
> That is, writing Sanskrit - not Hindi -  we should prefer the spelling
> ??????. With the nirukti kora-?na this would denote something even less
> or smaller than a bud, no?
>
> Regarding Bh?maha, most of us would still prefer a grammatical error to
> a virus infection, I guess:
>
> ??? ????????? ?????? ??????? ?? ????????? ?
> ????????????????? ??? ??????? ????????? ?
> ????????????????? ??????? ????????? ?
>
> "A stanza a day keeps the virus away --
> even if there may be a grammatical error, which can easily be
> corrected."
> This was said by a friend of the kavis secluded in his own house.
>
> Just my two (and a half) cents.
> Best,
> Christian Ferstl
>
>
> Am 30.03.2020 11:02, schrieb John Lowe via INDOLOGY:
> > I don't currently have access to my books and papers, but I believe
> > for Panini the only optionality or exceptions to nati all involve
> > morphological boundaries - either nominal compounding, or preverb-verb
> > compounding.
> >
> > Are there any genuine examples of exceptions/optionality of nati not
> > involving a morphological boundary (parallel to the many exceptions to
> > ruki, like _kusuma-_)?
> >
> > If we could split Korona- into something like Kora-una-, then perhaps
> > we could have the optionality; but then again for Panini, the tendency
> > is that compounds forming names are more disposed to nati than freely
> > formed compounds, so even as a compound name we would expect the
> > retroflex, I think.
> >
> > John
> >
> > -------------------------
> >
> > From: INDOLOGY <indology-bounces at list.indology.info> on behalf of
> > Madhav Deshpande via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info>
> > Sent: 29 March 2020 05:22
> > To: Harry Spier <vasishtha.spier at gmail.com>
> > Cc: indology at list.indology.info <INDOLOGY at list.indology.info>
> > Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] Retroflexion and gender in viruses
> >
> > Dear Harry,
> >
> >      There are similar alternating usages found in Sanskrit as well
> > and authorized by Panini, for example -
> >
> > ????????????????????
> > ?????
> >
> > ???????????? - ????
> > ??????? ???????? ???
> > ???????? ??????????? ?
> > ?????????
> > ?????????????????
> > ????????? ???? ????? ????
> > ??????? ?????????????
> > ????? ??????????,
> > ??????????? ??????????,
> > ??????????? ???????????
> > ?????????, ??????????
> > ????????, ?????????
> >
> > Madhav M. Deshpande
> > Professor Emeritus, Sanskrit and Linguistics
> > University of Michigan, Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA
> > Senior Fellow, Oxford Center for Hindu Studies
> >
> > [Residence: Campbell, California, USA]
> >
> > On Sat, Mar 28, 2020 at 2:46 PM Harry Spier via INDOLOGY
> > <indology at list.indology.info> wrote:
> >
> >> Mathew Kapstein: ?????
> >> Others ??????
> >>
> >> On Sat, Mar 28, 2020 at 7:08 AM Matthew Kapstein via INDOLOGY
> >> <indology at list.indology.info> wrote:
> >>
> >>> With so many mah?kavi-s on this list, you will have to forgive
> >>> me this silly amateurism (with Tibetan translation):
> >>>
> >>> ???????????? ????????
> >>> ????????????????????
> >>> ???????????? ?? ????
> >>> ????????????
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> > ?????????????????????????
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> > ????????????????????????
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> > ????????????????????????
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> > ??????????????????????????
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Matthew
> >>>
> >>> Matthew Kapstein
> >>> Directeur d'?tudes, ?m?rite
> >>> Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes, Paris
> >>>
> >>> Numata Visiting Professor of Buddhist Studies,
> >>> The University of Chicago
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> INDOLOGY mailing list
> >>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> >>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
> >>> committee)
> >>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list
> >>> options or unsubscribe)
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> INDOLOGY mailing list
> >> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> >> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
> >> committee)
> >> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list
> >> options or unsubscribe)
> > _______________________________________________
> > INDOLOGY mailing list
> > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
> > committee)
> > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options
> > or unsubscribe)
>
>


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From john.lowe at orinst.ox.ac.uk  Mon Mar 30 16:12:24 2020
From: john.lowe at orinst.ox.ac.uk (John Lowe)
Date: Mon, 30 Mar 20 16:12:24 +0000
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Retroflexion and gender in viruses
In-Reply-To: <CAETY2G0JnDwjtMbgSUkcwj8boEQ67V3ugmgpNE_qwZOWy-M2cQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <LO2P265MB01123999848206F05B2C594DFECB0@LO2P265MB0112.GBRP265.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>

Good point. Since in Prakrit ? can represent a short vowel (admittedly, only before a double consonant), perhaps we can be flexible!

The other thing that came to mind is the initial consonant. ?? is correct, based on the Latin, but for those of us in the English speaking world, unvoiced stops are aspirated, so presumably what Madhav heard in San Jose was more like ??????! (An example of accommodating loanwords into native phonology - English has unaspirated, unvoiced stops, but only after s-, so initial k- is naturally borrowed as kh-.)

Best wishes
John

________________________________
From: victor davella <vbd203 at googlemail.com>
Sent: 30 March 2020 16:49
To: John Lowe <john.lowe at orinst.ox.ac.uk>
Cc: Madhav Deshpande <mmdesh at umich.edu>; Christian Ferstl <christian.ferstl at univie.ac.at>; indology <indology at list.indology.info>
Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] Retroflexion and gender in viruses

The other issue worth debating is the initial syllable  ??, which
should be long based on the script. In many other Indian languages,
both Dravidian and Indo-Aryan, the initial vowel is short:
???????????  ??????????? ??????????? ????? ?????  ????? ?????
???????????.  The short vowel seems more faithful to English
pronunciation and the Latin original (cor?na).  Is the spelling in
Devan?gar? based on the equivalency of o = ? (?).

All the Best,
Victor




On Mon, Mar 30, 2020 at 4:13 PM John Lowe via INDOLOGY
<indology at list.indology.info> wrote:
>
> Thanks a lot - k?ubhn?ti is close, though there is also a morphological break of a different sort there, I suppose. And I think there are no other words in that ga?a where we are dealing with an exception to nati within a word, it is all (except k?ubh-n?) about words that don't have nati when in compound. The ga?a as a whole appears to be a list of inexplicable exceptions to the general rules, but there is nothing quite like Korona.
>
> I think people adapt borrowings to the constraints of their native phonology. P??ini would have been able to pronounce it Korona with dental, but if the rules of Sanskrit do not allow exceptions to nati in monomorphemic stems, and only rarely in morphologically complex stems, Korona would be alien to the natural rules of Sanskrit. But perhaps with such an awful thing it's better to keep it alien!
>
> Are there any examples of post-P??inian borrowings into Sanskrit, preferably unsegmentable nominal stems, where nati was not applied according to the regular rules?
>
> Best wishes,
> John
>
> ________________________________
> From: Madhav Deshpande <mmdesh at umich.edu>
> Sent: 30 March 2020 14:12
> To: Christian Ferstl <christian.ferstl at univie.ac.at>
> Cc: John Lowe <john.lowe at orinst.ox.ac.uk>; indology <indology at list.indology.info>
> Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] Retroflexion and gender in viruses
>
> I don't know what P??ini would have done, koro??/koron?, masculine or feminine.  There are exceptions to the retroflexion rules even in single words  [as ???????????? ? ??????. ? ??? ??????? ???????? ???????? ????? ??????? ??????? ???????? ? ????? ???????????].  In any case, importing an expression from a modern language into Sanskrit, one represents it as one hears it around.  Around me here in San Jose, I don't hear the retroflex.  But either representation is fine with me.  In early Marathi writings, the name of Mountstuart Elphinstone was written as ????? ?????????? ??????????.  In more recent Marathi writings, I see ???? ???????? ??????????, and the more Apabhramsha version was known as ?????? ?????. I write ????????????.  No retroflexion there.
>
> Madhav M. Deshpande
> Professor Emeritus, Sanskrit and Linguistics
> University of Michigan, Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA
> Senior Fellow, Oxford Center for Hindu Studies
>
> [Residence: Campbell, California, USA]
>
>
> On Mon, Mar 30, 2020 at 2:43 AM Christian Ferstl <christian.ferstl at univie.ac.at> wrote:
>
> That is, writing Sanskrit - not Hindi -  we should prefer the spelling
> ??????. With the nirukti kora-?na this would denote something even less
> or smaller than a bud, no?
>
> Regarding Bh?maha, most of us would still prefer a grammatical error to
> a virus infection, I guess:
>
> ??? ????????? ?????? ??????? ?? ????????? ?
> ????????????????? ??? ??????? ????????? ?
> ????????????????? ??????? ????????? ?
>
> "A stanza a day keeps the virus away --
> even if there may be a grammatical error, which can easily be
> corrected."
> This was said by a friend of the kavis secluded in his own house.
>
> Just my two (and a half) cents.
> Best,
> Christian Ferstl
>
>
> Am 30.03.2020 11:02, schrieb John Lowe via INDOLOGY:
> > I don't currently have access to my books and papers, but I believe
> > for Panini the only optionality or exceptions to nati all involve
> > morphological boundaries - either nominal compounding, or preverb-verb
> > compounding.
> >
> > Are there any genuine examples of exceptions/optionality of nati not
> > involving a morphological boundary (parallel to the many exceptions to
> > ruki, like _kusuma-_)?
> >
> > If we could split Korona- into something like Kora-una-, then perhaps
> > we could have the optionality; but then again for Panini, the tendency
> > is that compounds forming names are more disposed to nati than freely
> > formed compounds, so even as a compound name we would expect the
> > retroflex, I think.
> >
> > John
> >
> > -------------------------
> >
> > From: INDOLOGY <indology-bounces at list.indology.info> on behalf of
> > Madhav Deshpande via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info>
> > Sent: 29 March 2020 05:22
> > To: Harry Spier <vasishtha.spier at gmail.com>
> > Cc: indology at list.indology.info <INDOLOGY at list.indology.info>
> > Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] Retroflexion and gender in viruses
> >
> > Dear Harry,
> >
> >      There are similar alternating usages found in Sanskrit as well
> > and authorized by Panini, for example -
> >
> > ????????????????????
> > ?????
> >
> > ???????????? - ????
> > ??????? ???????? ???
> > ???????? ??????????? ?
> > ?????????
> > ?????????????????
> > ????????? ???? ????? ????
> > ??????? ?????????????
> > ????? ??????????,
> > ??????????? ??????????,
> > ??????????? ???????????
> > ?????????, ??????????
> > ????????, ?????????
> >
> > Madhav M. Deshpande
> > Professor Emeritus, Sanskrit and Linguistics
> > University of Michigan, Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA
> > Senior Fellow, Oxford Center for Hindu Studies
> >
> > [Residence: Campbell, California, USA]
> >
> > On Sat, Mar 28, 2020 at 2:46 PM Harry Spier via INDOLOGY
> > <indology at list.indology.info> wrote:
> >
> >> Mathew Kapstein: ?????
> >> Others ??????
> >>
> >> On Sat, Mar 28, 2020 at 7:08 AM Matthew Kapstein via INDOLOGY
> >> <indology at list.indology.info> wrote:
> >>
> >>> With so many mah?kavi-s on this list, you will have to forgive
> >>> me this silly amateurism (with Tibetan translation):
> >>>
> >>> ???????????? ????????
> >>> ????????????????????
> >>> ???????????? ?? ????
> >>> ????????????
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> > ?????????????????????????
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> > ????????????????????????
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> > ????????????????????????
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> > ??????????????????????????
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Matthew
> >>>
> >>> Matthew Kapstein
> >>> Directeur d'?tudes, ?m?rite
> >>> Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes, Paris
> >>>
> >>> Numata Visiting Professor of Buddhist Studies,
> >>> The University of Chicago
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> INDOLOGY mailing list
> >>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> >>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
> >>> committee)
> >>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list
> >>> options or unsubscribe)
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> INDOLOGY mailing list
> >> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> >> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
> >> committee)
> >> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list
> >> options or unsubscribe)
> > _______________________________________________
> > INDOLOGY mailing list
> > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
> > committee)
> > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options
> > or unsubscribe)
>
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe)


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From witzel at fas.harvard.edu  Mon Mar 30 16:13:37 2020
From: witzel at fas.harvard.edu (Witzel, Michael)
Date: Mon, 30 Mar 20 16:13:37 +0000
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Metrical inconsistencies and tradition
In-Reply-To: <57b91410-3b24-a4f0-2f83-3596a2d60deb@univie.ac.at>
Message-ID: <B46C273E-81C5-4422-8597-D1B745A03C42@fas.harvard.edu>

See now:

Mieko Kajihara  (Tokyo Univ.)

The Sacred Verse Sa?vitri?
 in the Vedic Religion and Beyond.
Journal of Indological Studies, Numbers 30 & 31 (2018-2019) pp. 1-36.


Cheers,
MW

On Mar 30, 2020, at 11:50 AM, Dominik Haas via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info<mailto:indology at list.indology.info>> wrote:


Dear Harry,

thanks a lot for the reference, didn't know this one! Even the wrong accent is noted there already.

Well yes, mantras like these were called G?yatr?s. The matter is a bit complicated though. As far as I have come to understand it, they were called thus because they imitate the famous G?yatr? verse (?gveda III 62.10) or are modified versions of it. But this verse acquired the name ?G?yatr?? rather late (considering its own age), for the first time perhaps in the Taittir?ya-?ra?yaka and then also in later additions the Dharmas?tras (in the Mah?bharata, too, the verse is called G?yatr? several times, especially in the later strata).

So the point is that the modified G?yatr?s were perhaps never actually thought to be in the g?yatr? metre (not even by its creators, whenever they lived), but were only called G?yatr? because they resemble the verse. I normally use g?yatr? for the metre and G?yatr? for the verse (I did not do so in my previous email though). So the modified G?yatr?s are probably not examples for metrical license, i.e., they are not g?yatr? verses, even though they are called G?yatr?s.

But it could very well be that some commentator explained them to be in the g?yatr? metre, but a g?yatr? metre with extra syllables etc.

Best regards,

Dominik

__________________
Dominik A. Haas, BA MA
PhD Candidate, University of Vienna
dominik.haas at univie.ac.at <mailto:dominik.haas at univie.ac.at>
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On Mon, Mar 30, 2020 at 8:45 AM Dominik Haas via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info<mailto:indology at list.indology.info>> wrote:


Perhaps a short note on the modified ?G?yatr?s? in the Maitr?ya??-Sa?hit?: the creators of these verses simply inserted a certain deity without too much regard for metre. The non-adjusted accentuation perhaps also shows that the ?G?yatr?s? in this text are more pieced together than composed anew (pracod?y?t is still accented, even though it's now the verb of a main clause ? or is there another explanation?).

Thank you for this Dominik.

The author in the following link, for the reasons you've mentioned and because the gayatris are  mostly to later deities, argues that this section of the  Maitr?ya??-Sa?hit?:   is interpolated:  https://books.google.ca/books?id=X0JUwf2BXVAC&pg=PA57&lpg=PA57&dq=maitrayani+samhita+x.9.1&source=bl&ots=zfBpMv9w-q&sig=ACfU3U2LME_WHFLc9K4mr4lvOD8UVoCkEg&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiIuojYs8LoAhUImuAKHYHQDPEQ6AEwAHoECAkQAQ#v=onepage&q=maitrayani%20samhita%20x.9.1&f=false<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__books.google.ca_books-3Fid-3DX0JUwf2BXVAC-26pg-3DPA57-26lpg-3DPA57-26dq-3Dmaitrayani-2Bsamhita-2Bx.9.1-26source-3Dbl-26ots-3DzfBpMv9w-2Dq-26sig-3DACfU3U2LME-5FWHFLc9K4mr4lvOD8UVoCkEg-26hl-3Den-26sa-3DX-26ved-3D2ahUKEwiIuojYs8LoAhUImuAKHYHQDPEQ6AEwAHoECAkQAQ-23v-3Donepage-26q-3Dmaitrayani-2520samhita-2520x.9.1-26f-3Dfalse&d=DwMDaQ&c=WO-RGvefibhHBZq3fL85hQ&r=tFXzIbyKS2C0TpVqKsMrj46qwsAermBN5wzaDe51So0&m=D4CPG7AdYt2M9wvLgDyU9v4FiVY8uLgVd_HKq5xVfGM&s=wp_nAROr8ZmmHizUXyUIS26tKLO2dbPIOY-F3LTGoLA&e=>

You also asked:
 I wonder whether and where they are actually called G?yatr?s?

If you do a search of the Muktabodha searchable e-text  digital library   for <gAyatrI> you'll see that throughout the tantric literature these types of mantras are called   g?yatr? or g?yatr?matra or  the deity name compounded with  g?yatr?  such as: n?si?hag?yatr?  etc. If I recall correctly they are called  g?yatr? much more often than  g?yatr?mantra.

Harry Spier


_______________________________________________
INDOLOGY mailing list
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indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee)
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Michael Witzel
Wales Prof. of Sanskrit, Dept. of South Asian Studies, 1 Bow Street, Cambridge, MA 02138, USA
ph. 1 - 617 496 2990
witzel at fas.harvard.edu<mailto:witzel at fas.harvard.edu>
www.people.fas.harvard.edu/~witzel/mwpage.htm





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From mmdesh at umich.edu  Mon Mar 30 16:21:23 2020
From: mmdesh at umich.edu (Madhav Deshpande)
Date: Mon, 30 Mar 20 09:21:23 -0700
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Retroflexion and gender in viruses
In-Reply-To: <CAETY2G0JnDwjtMbgSUkcwj8boEQ67V3ugmgpNE_qwZOWy-M2cQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAB3-dzejtSVWcwyv9ZjYt_ztcE9_YxHWDPospjCnCB8gPp_cNQ@mail.gmail.com>

This is also an interesting issue.  Among my Indian friends, and in Marathi
newspapers, I see both ????? and ??????.  Same thing among Hindi speakers,
with statements like ????? ???? ??? ??.  I have noticed this variation.
Here is the news in the newspaper ???? from Pune:
[image: image.png]

Madhav M. Deshpande
Professor Emeritus, Sanskrit and Linguistics
University of Michigan, Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA
Senior Fellow, Oxford Center for Hindu Studies

[Residence: Campbell, California, USA]


On Mon, Mar 30, 2020 at 8:49 AM victor davella <vbd203 at googlemail.com>
wrote:

> The other issue worth debating is the initial syllable  ??, which
> should be long based on the script. In many other Indian languages,
> both Dravidian and Indo-Aryan, the initial vowel is short:
> ???????????  ??????????? ??????????? ????? ?????  ????? ?????
> ???????????.  The short vowel seems more faithful to English
> pronunciation and the Latin original (cor?na).  Is the spelling in
> Devan?gar? based on the equivalency of o = ? (?).
>
> All the Best,
> Victor
>
>
>
>
> On Mon, Mar 30, 2020 at 4:13 PM John Lowe via INDOLOGY
> <indology at list.indology.info> wrote:
> >
> > Thanks a lot - k?ubhn?ti is close, though there is also a morphological
> break of a different sort there, I suppose. And I think there are no other
> words in that ga?a where we are dealing with an exception to nati within a
> word, it is all (except k?ubh-n?) about words that don't have nati when in
> compound. The ga?a as a whole appears to be a list of inexplicable
> exceptions to the general rules, but there is nothing quite like Korona.
> >
> > I think people adapt borrowings to the constraints of their native
> phonology. P??ini would have been able to pronounce it Korona with dental,
> but if the rules of Sanskrit do not allow exceptions to nati in
> monomorphemic stems, and only rarely in morphologically complex stems,
> Korona would be alien to the natural rules of Sanskrit. But perhaps with
> such an awful thing it's better to keep it alien!
> >
> > Are there any examples of post-P??inian borrowings into Sanskrit,
> preferably unsegmentable nominal stems, where nati was not applied
> according to the regular rules?
> >
> > Best wishes,
> > John
> >
> > ________________________________
> > From: Madhav Deshpande <mmdesh at umich.edu>
> > Sent: 30 March 2020 14:12
> > To: Christian Ferstl <christian.ferstl at univie.ac.at>
> > Cc: John Lowe <john.lowe at orinst.ox.ac.uk>; indology <
> indology at list.indology.info>
> > Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] Retroflexion and gender in viruses
> >
> > I don't know what P??ini would have done, koro??/koron?, masculine or
> feminine.  There are exceptions to the retroflexion rules even in single
> words  [as ???????????? ? ??????. ? ??? ??????? ???????? ???????? ?????
> ??????? ??????? ???????? ? ????? ???????????].  In any case, importing an
> expression from a modern language into Sanskrit, one represents it as one
> hears it around.  Around me here in San Jose, I don't hear the retroflex.
> But either representation is fine with me.  In early Marathi writings, the
> name of Mountstuart Elphinstone was written as ????? ??????????
> ??????????.  In more recent Marathi writings, I see ???? ????????
> ??????????, and the more Apabhramsha version was known as ?????? ?????. I
> write ????????????.  No retroflexion there.
> >
> > Madhav M. Deshpande
> > Professor Emeritus, Sanskrit and Linguistics
> > University of Michigan, Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA
> > Senior Fellow, Oxford Center for Hindu Studies
> >
> > [Residence: Campbell, California, USA]
> >
> >
> > On Mon, Mar 30, 2020 at 2:43 AM Christian Ferstl <
> christian.ferstl at univie.ac.at> wrote:
> >
> > That is, writing Sanskrit - not Hindi -  we should prefer the spelling
> > ??????. With the nirukti kora-?na this would denote something even less
> > or smaller than a bud, no?
> >
> > Regarding Bh?maha, most of us would still prefer a grammatical error to
> > a virus infection, I guess:
> >
> > ??? ????????? ?????? ??????? ?? ????????? ?
> > ????????????????? ??? ??????? ????????? ?
> > ????????????????? ??????? ????????? ?
> >
> > "A stanza a day keeps the virus away --
> > even if there may be a grammatical error, which can easily be
> > corrected."
> > This was said by a friend of the kavis secluded in his own house.
> >
> > Just my two (and a half) cents.
> > Best,
> > Christian Ferstl
> >
> >
> > Am 30.03.2020 11:02, schrieb John Lowe via INDOLOGY:
> > > I don't currently have access to my books and papers, but I believe
> > > for Panini the only optionality or exceptions to nati all involve
> > > morphological boundaries - either nominal compounding, or preverb-verb
> > > compounding.
> > >
> > > Are there any genuine examples of exceptions/optionality of nati not
> > > involving a morphological boundary (parallel to the many exceptions to
> > > ruki, like _kusuma-_)?
> > >
> > > If we could split Korona- into something like Kora-una-, then perhaps
> > > we could have the optionality; but then again for Panini, the tendency
> > > is that compounds forming names are more disposed to nati than freely
> > > formed compounds, so even as a compound name we would expect the
> > > retroflex, I think.
> > >
> > > John
> > >
> > > -------------------------
> > >
> > > From: INDOLOGY <indology-bounces at list.indology.info> on behalf of
> > > Madhav Deshpande via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info>
> > > Sent: 29 March 2020 05:22
> > > To: Harry Spier <vasishtha.spier at gmail.com>
> > > Cc: indology at list.indology.info <INDOLOGY at list.indology.info>
> > > Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] Retroflexion and gender in viruses
> > >
> > > Dear Harry,
> > >
> > >      There are similar alternating usages found in Sanskrit as well
> > > and authorized by Panini, for example -
> > >
> > > ????????????????????
> > > ?????
> > >
> > > ???????????? - ????
> > > ??????? ???????? ???
> > > ???????? ??????????? ?
> > > ?????????
> > > ?????????????????
> > > ????????? ???? ????? ????
> > > ??????? ?????????????
> > > ????? ??????????,
> > > ??????????? ??????????,
> > > ??????????? ???????????
> > > ?????????, ??????????
> > > ????????, ?????????
> > >
> > > Madhav M. Deshpande
> > > Professor Emeritus, Sanskrit and Linguistics
> > > University of Michigan, Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA
> > > Senior Fellow, Oxford Center for Hindu Studies
> > >
> > > [Residence: Campbell, California, USA]
> > >
> > > On Sat, Mar 28, 2020 at 2:46 PM Harry Spier via INDOLOGY
> > > <indology at list.indology.info> wrote:
> > >
> > >> Mathew Kapstein: ?????
> > >> Others ??????
> > >>
> > >> On Sat, Mar 28, 2020 at 7:08 AM Matthew Kapstein via INDOLOGY
> > >> <indology at list.indology.info> wrote:
> > >>
> > >>> With so many mah?kavi-s on this list, you will have to forgive
> > >>> me this silly amateurism (with Tibetan translation):
> > >>>
> > >>> ???????????? ????????
> > >>> ????????????????????
> > >>> ???????????? ?? ????
> > >>> ????????????
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>
> > > ?????????????????????????
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>
> > > ????????????????????????
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>
> > > ????????????????????????
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>
> > > ??????????????????????????
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>> Matthew
> > >>>
> > >>> Matthew Kapstein
> > >>> Directeur d'?tudes, ?m?rite
> > >>> Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes, Paris
> > >>>
> > >>> Numata Visiting Professor of Buddhist Studies,
> > >>> The University of Chicago
> > >>> _______________________________________________
> > >>> INDOLOGY mailing list
> > >>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> > >>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
> > >>> committee)
> > >>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list
> > >>> options or unsubscribe)
> > >> _______________________________________________
> > >> INDOLOGY mailing list
> > >> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> > >> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
> > >> committee)
> > >> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list
> > >> options or unsubscribe)
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > INDOLOGY mailing list
> > > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> > > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
> > > committee)
> > > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options
> > > or unsubscribe)
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > INDOLOGY mailing list
> > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
> committee)
> > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options
> or unsubscribe)
>


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From nagarajpaturi at gmail.com  Mon Mar 30 16:22:57 2020
From: nagarajpaturi at gmail.com (Nagaraj Paturi)
Date: Mon, 30 Mar 20 21:52:57 +0530
Subject: [INDOLOGY] A distraction from the Coronavirus
In-Reply-To: <20200330163849.Horde.A_M7t27i2dRrYm4q2_nEg3-@home.staff.uni-marburg.de>
Message-ID: <CAJGj9ebLYu99Oh7C9uAki8G2wiDujdp-m+YO49DCwb6junYN6w@mail.gmail.com>

Thanks Dr Steiner for the Sanskrit version and congratulations for the
translation. I do not know German though.

On Mon, Mar 30, 2020, 8:08 PM Roland Steiner <steiner at staff.uni-marburg.de>
wrote:

>
> > The version I pasted seems to have many spelling /typo issues. But the
> > verse is a well known one.
>
> Indeed.
>
> prasahya ma?im uddharen makaravaktrada???r?ntar?t
> samudram api sa?taret pracalad ?rmim?l?kulam |
> bhuja?gam api kopita? ?irasi pu?pavad dh?rayet
> na tu pratinivi??am?rkhajanacittam ?r?dhayet //
>
> (Bhart?hari, *N?ti?ataka*, ed. Kosambi 1946: 1.4; ed. Kosambi 1948: 1.9)
>
> My revered teacher Michael Hahn, myself and other colleagues in Marburg
> had started sometime in the early 1990s to translate selected Bhart?hari
> verses into German, including this one:
>
>   Gewaltsam mag man einen Edelstein
>     dem Maule eines Krokodils entrei?en,
>   Den Ozean selbst ?berqueren,
>     von ungest?men Wellenkr?nzen aufgew?hlt,
>   Und auch die zornentbrannte Schlange
>     wie eine Blume auf dem Kopfe tragen --
>   Nicht aber wird man je
>     das Herz verstockter Narren ?berzeugen.
>
>
> With kind regards,
> Roland Steiner
>


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From steiner at staff.uni-marburg.de  Mon Mar 30 16:42:26 2020
From: steiner at staff.uni-marburg.de (Roland Steiner)
Date: Mon, 30 Mar 20 18:42:26 +0200
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Metrical inconsistencies and tradition
In-Reply-To: <CAETY2G1XfzmtfpxhfkNz-_hz3shgmtNT1zF_dJh6NZmne-NmPA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20200330184226.Horde.Ymdpk2Hd8fDytNScwAuTUO0@home.staff.uni-marburg.de>

> there are a few rare occurrences where we can apply the so-called  
> *muta cum liquida* rule
> In Sanskrit such an indulgence is rather rare and appears to be more
> frequently applied in Prakrit poetry and "Epic" Sanskrit. In the latter
> case several types of consonant clusters do not cause the preceding
> syllable to be guru.

By the way, Colebrooke already described the phenomenon in 1808:

"By poetical license, a vowel may be short before certain conjuncts  
(viz., /pra/ and /hra/; as also /bra/ and /kra/. [/.../]."
(H. T. Colebrooke, "On Sanskrit and Pr?krit Poetry", in:  
/Miscellaneous Essays/, Vol. 3, London 1873, p. 65)

In his PhD thesis of 1988 Michael Balk noted the same metric license  
for the /Ud?navarga /(especially for the case of /pr/- and/ br/-). See  
M. Balk: /Untersuchungen zum Ud?navarga. Unter Ber?cksichtigung  
mittelindischer Parallelen und eines tibetischen Kommentars/. Marburg  
2011 (Indicat et Toberica. 53), pp. 39-42.

With best regards,
Roland Steiner


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From steiner at staff.uni-marburg.de  Mon Mar 30 16:51:12 2020
From: steiner at staff.uni-marburg.de (Roland Steiner)
Date: Mon, 30 Mar 20 18:51:12 +0200
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Metrical inconsistencies and tradition
In-Reply-To: <20200330184226.Horde.Ymdpk2Hd8fDytNScwAuTUO0@home.staff.uni-marburg.de>
Message-ID: <20200330185112.Horde.NQKbFQLWp6bC8zbq010lIcG@home.staff.uni-marburg.de>

Please excuse the silly typo (now corrected).

> there are a few rare occurrences where we can apply the so-called  
> *muta cum liquida* rule
> In Sanskrit such an indulgence is rather rare and appears to be more
> frequently applied in Prakrit poetry and "Epic" Sanskrit. In the latter
> case several types of consonant clusters do not cause the preceding
> syllable to be guru.

By the way, Colebrooke already described the phenomenon in 1808:

"By poetical license, a vowel may be short before certain conjuncts  
(viz., /pra/ and /hra/; as also /bra/ and /kra/. [/.../]."
(H. T. Colebrooke, "On Sanskrit and Pr?krit Poetry", in:  
/Miscellaneous Essays/, Vol. 3, London 1873, p. 65)

In his PhD thesis of 1988 Michael Balk noted the same metrical license  
for the /Ud?navarga/ (especially for the case of /pr/- and /br/-). See  
M. Balk: /Untersuchungen zum Ud?navarga. Unter Ber?cksichtigung  
mittelindischer Parallelen und eines tibetischen Kommentars/. Marburg  
2011 (Indica et Tibetica. 53), pp. 39-42.

With best regards,
Roland Steiner


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From kauzeya at gmail.com  Mon Mar 30 17:59:05 2020
From: kauzeya at gmail.com (Jonathan Silk)
Date: Mon, 30 Mar 20 19:59:05 +0200
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Metrical inconsistencies and tradition
In-Reply-To: <20200330185112.Horde.NQKbFQLWp6bC8zbq010lIcG@home.staff.uni-marburg.de>
Message-ID: <CAMGmO4+QPZ4=bxDGAzbCnsooOSVzUH6rMjVHN6zAq4+rkEWxqA@mail.gmail.com>

I am extremely reticent to join a discussion of metrics with specialists,
but I might just dare to mention that in Buddhist texts the matter has been
much discussed, especially in light of the clear tendency to transfer
Middle Indic texts to Sanskrit, with the result that sometimes lines are
entirely rewritten while at other times it would appear, as Roland says,
that license is found. In a small paper on the so-called *K??yapaparivarta'*s
verses, I observed the following:  " in the KP there are, in the roughly
600 lines amenable to examination, 31 cases in which the cluster pr does
not make position, that is, in which a short vowel standing before the
cluster pr must be read as metrically short..." I also tabulated the cases
with other clusters.
The whole paper is available here:
https://www.academia.edu/9535404/The_Nature_of_the_Verses_of_the_K%C4%81%C5%9Byapaparivarta

Very best, Jonathan

On Mon, Mar 30, 2020 at 6:51 PM Roland Steiner via INDOLOGY <
indology at list.indology.info> wrote:

> Please excuse the silly typo (now corrected).
>
>
> > there are a few rare occurrences where we can apply the so-called *muta
> cum liquida* rule
> > In Sanskrit such an indulgence is rather rare and appears to be more
> > frequently applied in Prakrit poetry and "Epic" Sanskrit. In the latter
> > case several types of consonant clusters do not cause the preceding
> > syllable to be guru.
>
> By the way, Colebrooke already described the phenomenon in 1808:
>
> "By poetical license, a vowel may be short before certain conjuncts (viz.,
> *pra* and *hra*; as also *bra* and *kra*. [*...*]."
> (H. T. Colebrooke, "On Sanskrit and Pr?krit Poetry", in: *Miscellaneous
> Essays*, Vol. 3, London 1873, p. 65)
>
> In his PhD thesis of 1988 Michael Balk noted the same metrical license for
> the *Ud?navarga* (especially for the case of *pr*- and *br*-). See M.
> Balk: *Untersuchungen zum Ud?navarga. Unter Ber?cksichtigung
> mittelindischer Parallelen und eines tibetischen Kommentars*. Marburg
> 2011 (Indica et Tibetica. 53), pp. 39-42.
>
> With best regards,
> Roland Steiner
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
> committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
> unsubscribe)
>


-- 
J. Silk
Leiden University
Leiden University Institute for Area Studies, LIAS
Matthias de Vrieshof 3, Room 0.05b
2311 BZ Leiden
The Netherlands

copies of my publications may be found at
https://leidenuniv.academia.edu/JASilk


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From j.jurewicz at uw.edu.pl  Mon Mar 30 18:07:44 2020
From: j.jurewicz at uw.edu.pl (Joanna Jurewicz)
Date: Mon, 30 Mar 20 20:07:44 +0200
Subject: [INDOLOGY] A distraction from the Coronavirus
In-Reply-To: <CAB3-dzeZDyUk4aoWyUn-Ub-vAO+8XD2zJcL9LSh3_y8OQ3EZEw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAAPrgbrUDn0uJTnr-KVqOku2zz_EUCvhU5=SxYFSas0TS5LHNQ@mail.gmail.com>

???

---

Prof. dr hab. Joanna Jurewicz

Katedra Azji Po?udniowej /Chair of South Asia

Wydzia? Orientalistyczny / Faculty of Oriental Studies

Uniwersytet Warszawski /University of Warsaw

ul. Krakowskie Przedmie?cie 26/28

00-927 Warszawa , Poland

Department of Linguistics and Modern Languages

College of Human Sciences

UNISA

Pretoria, RSA

Member of Academia Europaea

https://uw.academia.edu/JoannaJurewicz


pon., 30 mar 2020 o 15:33 Madhav Deshpande via INDOLOGY <
indology at list.indology.info> napisa?(a):

> A distraction from the Coronavirus
>
> ??????????????????? ? ????????? ??????? ?
> ????? ?????????????????????????? ??????? ??
>
> Ravana said:
> ?Scared of contacting the Coronavirus, I will not abduct Sita. Once it
> goes away, I will return quickly.?
>
> Madhav M. Deshpande
> Professor Emeritus, Sanskrit and Linguistics
> University of Michigan, Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA
> Senior Fellow, Oxford Center for Hindu Studies
>
> [Residence: Campbell, California, USA]
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
> committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
> unsubscribe)
>


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From steiner at staff.uni-marburg.de  Mon Mar 30 19:00:48 2020
From: steiner at staff.uni-marburg.de (Roland Steiner)
Date: Mon, 30 Mar 20 21:00:48 +0200
Subject: [INDOLOGY] A distraction from the Coronavirus
In-Reply-To: <CAJGj9ebLYu99Oh7C9uAki8G2wiDujdp-m+YO49DCwb6junYN6w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20200330210048.Horde.S47cuEWpratqQiPKpvQWEP-@home.staff.uni-marburg.de>

> Thanks Dr Steiner for the Sanskrit version

With pleasure. I take the opportunity to correct a lapse that Prof.  
Isaacson kindly pointed out to me. For the sake of convenience, I had  
copied the Bhart?hari stanza from GRETIL, adapted the orthography to  
Kosambi's editions
and only corrected the obvious typo /m??kha/. However, I forgot to  
remove the space following /pracalad/?, because the latter is, of  
course, the first member of the compound /pracalad?rmim?l?kulam/ (if  
only because /pracalad /cannot refer to the masculine /samudram/). In  
our translation: "von UNGEST?MEN Wellenkr?nzen aufgew?hlt".

prasahya ma?im uddharen makaravaktrada???r?ntar?t
samudram api sa?taret pracalad?rmim?l?kulam /
bhuja?gam api kopita? ?irasi pu?pavad dh?rayet
na tu pratinivi??am?rkhajanacittam ?r?dhayet //

(Bhart?hari, /N?ti?ataka/, ed. Kosambi 1946: 1.4; ed. Kosambi 1948: 1.9)

While I'm correcting: Please read /?abda??stram /instead of  
/??bda??stram /(a true typo) in CC's second stanza.

Best regards,
Roland


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From christophe.vielle at uclouvain.be  Mon Mar 30 19:32:59 2020
From: christophe.vielle at uclouvain.be (Christophe Vielle)
Date: Mon, 30 Mar 20 21:32:59 +0200
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Retroflexion and gender in viruses
In-Reply-To: <CAB3-dzejtSVWcwyv9ZjYt_ztcE9_YxHWDPospjCnCB8gPp_cNQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <63166590-9BC5-49FB-9177-A59F36DE41FF@uclouvain.be>

The Sanskrit o is normally (for exceptions, see Renou G p. 23) long (so for instance in Malayalam, which has both long and short o, kokila or cakora are written  k?kila, cak?ra); in lexical borrowings from ancient Greek it seems that it has normally been used for transcribing long o, cf. hor? from ???, paristoma from ??????????.  For the short o, one finds in Varah?mihira's Hor???stra etc. various treatments like durudh?ra for ?????????, kemadruma for ??????????, harija for ?????? (other examples of Greek short o > Skrt a/? are less relevant if it concerns the endings, cf. lipt? from ?????? <https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%CE%BB%CE%B5%CF%80%CF%84%CF%8C%CE%BD#Ancient_Greek>,  j?mitra from ????????? <https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%CE%B4%CE%B9%CE%AC%CE%BC%CE%B5%CF%84%CF%81%CE%BF%CE%BD#Ancient_Greek>, kendra from ???????) ? however, there is at least ko?a = ??? <https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%CE%BB%CE%B5%CF%80%CF%84%CF%8C%CE%BD#Ancient_Greek>??? ; on the basis of the latter, and of the rendering of corona in the other Indian language, ko- in koro?a seems to me acceptable.
Is there somewhere a complete listing of the Sanskrit lexical borrowings from ancient Greek?

> Le 30 mars 2020 ? 18:21, Madhav Deshpande via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info> a ?crit :
> 
> This is also an interesting issue.  Among my Indian friends, and in Marathi newspapers, I see both ????? and ??????.  Same thing among Hindi speakers, with statements like ????? ???? ??? ??.  I have noticed this variation. Here is the news in the newspaper ???? from Pune:
> 
> 
> Madhav M. Deshpande
> Professor Emeritus, Sanskrit and Linguistics
> University of Michigan, Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA
> Senior Fellow, Oxford Center for Hindu Studies
> 
> [Residence: Campbell, California, USA]
> 
> 
> On Mon, Mar 30, 2020 at 8:49 AM victor davella <vbd203 at googlemail.com <mailto:vbd203 at googlemail.com>> wrote:
> The other issue worth debating is the initial syllable  ??, which
> should be long based on the script. In many other Indian languages,
> both Dravidian and Indo-Aryan, the initial vowel is short:
> ???????????  ??????????? ??????????? ????? ?????  ????? ?????
> ???????????.  The short vowel seems more faithful to English
> pronunciation and the Latin original (cor?na).  Is the spelling in
> Devan?gar? based on the equivalency of o = ? (?).
> 
> All the Best,
> Victor
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On Mon, Mar 30, 2020 at 4:13 PM John Lowe via INDOLOGY
> <indology at list.indology.info <mailto:indology at list.indology.info>> wrote:
> >
> > Thanks a lot - k?ubhn?ti is close, though there is also a morphological break of a different sort there, I suppose. And I think there are no other words in that ga?a where we are dealing with an exception to nati within a word, it is all (except k?ubh-n?) about words that don't have nati when in compound. The ga?a as a whole appears to be a list of inexplicable exceptions to the general rules, but there is nothing quite like Korona.
> >
> > I think people adapt borrowings to the constraints of their native phonology. P??ini would have been able to pronounce it Korona with dental, but if the rules of Sanskrit do not allow exceptions to nati in monomorphemic stems, and only rarely in morphologically complex stems, Korona would be alien to the natural rules of Sanskrit. But perhaps with such an awful thing it's better to keep it alien!
> >
> > Are there any examples of post-P??inian borrowings into Sanskrit, preferably unsegmentable nominal stems, where nati was not applied according to the regular rules?
> >
> > Best wishes,
> > John
> >
> > ________________________________
> > From: Madhav Deshpande <mmdesh at umich.edu <mailto:mmdesh at umich.edu>>
> > Sent: 30 March 2020 14:12
> > To: Christian Ferstl <christian.ferstl at univie.ac.at <mailto:christian.ferstl at univie.ac.at>>
> > Cc: John Lowe <john.lowe at orinst.ox.ac.uk <mailto:john.lowe at orinst.ox.ac.uk>>; indology <indology at list.indology.info <mailto:indology at list.indology.info>>
> > Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] Retroflexion and gender in viruses
> >
> > I don't know what P??ini would have done, koro??/koron?, masculine or feminine.  There are exceptions to the retroflexion rules even in single words  [as ???????????? ? ??????. ? ??? ??????? ???????? ???????? ????? ??????? ??????? ???????? ? ????? ???????????].  In any case, importing an expression from a modern language into Sanskrit, one represents it as one hears it around.  Around me here in San Jose, I don't hear the retroflex.  But either representation is fine with me.  In early Marathi writings, the name of Mountstuart Elphinstone was written as ????? ?????????? ??????????.  In more recent Marathi writings, I see ???? ???????? ??????????, and the more Apabhramsha version was known as ?????? ?????. I write ????????????.  No retroflexion there.
> >
> > Madhav M. Deshpande
> > Professor Emeritus, Sanskrit and Linguistics
> > University of Michigan, Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA
> > Senior Fellow, Oxford Center for Hindu Studies
> >
> > [Residence: Campbell, California, USA]
> >
> >
> > On Mon, Mar 30, 2020 at 2:43 AM Christian Ferstl <christian.ferstl at univie.ac.at <mailto:christian.ferstl at univie.ac.at>> wrote:
> >
> > That is, writing Sanskrit - not Hindi -  we should prefer the spelling
> > ??????. With the nirukti kora-?na this would denote something even less
> > or smaller than a bud, no?
> >
> > Regarding Bh?maha, most of us would still prefer a grammatical error to
> > a virus infection, I guess:
> >
> > ??? ????????? ?????? ??????? ?? ????????? ?
> > ????????????????? ??? ??????? ????????? ?
> > ????????????????? ??????? ????????? ?
> >
> > "A stanza a day keeps the virus away --
> > even if there may be a grammatical error, which can easily be
> > corrected."
> > This was said by a friend of the kavis secluded in his own house.
> >
> > Just my two (and a half) cents.
> > Best,
> > Christian Ferstl
> >
> >
> > Am 30.03.2020 11:02, schrieb John Lowe via INDOLOGY:
> > > I don't currently have access to my books and papers, but I believe
> > > for Panini the only optionality or exceptions to nati all involve
> > > morphological boundaries - either nominal compounding, or preverb-verb
> > > compounding.
> > >
> > > Are there any genuine examples of exceptions/optionality of nati not
> > > involving a morphological boundary (parallel to the many exceptions to
> > > ruki, like _kusuma-_)?
> > >
> > > If we could split Korona- into something like Kora-una-, then perhaps
> > > we could have the optionality; but then again for Panini, the tendency
> > > is that compounds forming names are more disposed to nati than freely
> > > formed compounds, so even as a compound name we would expect the
> > > retroflex, I think.
> > >
> > > John
> > >
> > > -------------------------
> > >
> > > From: INDOLOGY <indology-bounces at list.indology.info <mailto:indology-bounces at list.indology.info>> on behalf of
> > > Madhav Deshpande via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info <mailto:indology at list.indology.info>>
> > > Sent: 29 March 2020 05:22
> > > To: Harry Spier <vasishtha.spier at gmail.com <mailto:vasishtha.spier at gmail.com>>
> > > Cc: indology at list.indology.info <mailto:indology at list.indology.info> <INDOLOGY at list.indology.info <mailto:INDOLOGY at list.indology.info>>
> > > Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] Retroflexion and gender in viruses
> > >
> > > Dear Harry,
> > >
> > >      There are similar alternating usages found in Sanskrit as well
> > > and authorized by Panini, for example -
> > >
> > > ????????????????????
> > > ?????
> > >
> > > ???????????? - ????
> > > ??????? ???????? ???
> > > ???????? ??????????? ?
> > > ?????????
> > > ?????????????????
> > > ????????? ???? ????? ????
> > > ??????? ?????????????
> > > ????? ??????????,
> > > ??????????? ??????????,
> > > ??????????? ???????????
> > > ?????????, ??????????
> > > ????????, ?????????
> > >
> > > Madhav M. Deshpande
> > > Professor Emeritus, Sanskrit and Linguistics
> > > University of Michigan, Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA
> > > Senior Fellow, Oxford Center for Hindu Studies
> > >
> > > [Residence: Campbell, California, USA]
> > >
> > > On Sat, Mar 28, 2020 at 2:46 PM Harry Spier via INDOLOGY
> > > <indology at list.indology.info <mailto:indology at list.indology.info>> wrote:
> > >
> > >> Mathew Kapstein: ?????
> > >> Others ??????
> > >>
> > >> On Sat, Mar 28, 2020 at 7:08 AM Matthew Kapstein via INDOLOGY
> > >> <indology at list.indology.info <mailto:indology at list.indology.info>> wrote:
> > >>
> > >>> With so many mah?kavi-s on this list, you will have to forgive
> > >>> me this silly amateurism (with Tibetan translation):
> > >>>
> > >>> ???????????? ????????
> > >>> ????????????????????
> > >>> ???????????? ?? ????
> > >>> ????????????
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>
> > > ?????????????????????????
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>
> > > ????????????????????????
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>
> > > ????????????????????????
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>
> > > ??????????????????????????
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>> Matthew
> > >>>
> > >>> Matthew Kapstein
> > >>> Directeur d'?tudes, ?m?rite
> > >>> Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes, Paris
> > >>>
> > >>> Numata Visiting Professor of Buddhist Studies,
> > >>> The University of Chicago
> > >>> _______________________________________________
> > >>> INDOLOGY mailing list
> > >>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info <mailto:INDOLOGY at list.indology.info>
> > >>> indology-owner at list.indology.info <mailto:indology-owner at list.indology.info> (messages to the list's managing
> > >>> committee)
> > >>> http://listinfo.indology.info <https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Flistinfo.indology.info%2F&data=02%7C01%7Cchristophe.vielle%40uclouvain.be%7C0d7e38a99eeb405fffcc08d7d4c6938b%7C7ab090d4fa2e4ecfbc7c4127b4d582ec%7C0%7C0%7C637211821660306850&sdata=Iu0P%2FVfEyNcnZiI3AAfSO9XMauFmAobNODVquHfnbf0%3D&reserved=0> (where you can change your list
> > >>> options or unsubscribe)
> > >> _______________________________________________
> > >> INDOLOGY mailing list
> > >> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info <mailto:INDOLOGY at list.indology.info>
> > >> indology-owner at list.indology.info <mailto:indology-owner at list.indology.info> (messages to the list's managing
> > >> committee)
> > >> http://listinfo.indology.info <https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Flistinfo.indology.info%2F&data=02%7C01%7Cchristophe.vielle%40uclouvain.be%7C0d7e38a99eeb405fffcc08d7d4c6938b%7C7ab090d4fa2e4ecfbc7c4127b4d582ec%7C0%7C0%7C637211821660306850&sdata=Iu0P%2FVfEyNcnZiI3AAfSO9XMauFmAobNODVquHfnbf0%3D&reserved=0> (where you can change your list
> > >> options or unsubscribe)
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > INDOLOGY mailing list
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> > > indology-owner at list.indology.info <mailto:indology-owner at list.indology.info> (messages to the list's managing
> > > committee)
> > > http://listinfo.indology.info <https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Flistinfo.indology.info%2F&data=02%7C01%7Cchristophe.vielle%40uclouvain.be%7C0d7e38a99eeb405fffcc08d7d4c6938b%7C7ab090d4fa2e4ecfbc7c4127b4d582ec%7C0%7C0%7C637211821660316844&sdata=WqiQpP72qaKqMzNMtQFWcwmBwGmGnS%2Bl5%2BoQ0IlKgnA%3D&reserved=0> (where you can change your list options
> > > or unsubscribe)
> >
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> > INDOLOGY mailing list
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> > indology-owner at list.indology.info <mailto:indology-owner at list.indology.info> (messages to the list's managing committee)
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> _______________________________________________
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???????????????????
Christophe Vielle <https://uclouvain.be/en/directories/christophe.vielle>
Louvain-la-Neuve





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From vasishtha.spier at gmail.com  Mon Mar 30 20:14:26 2020
From: vasishtha.spier at gmail.com (Harry Spier)
Date: Mon, 30 Mar 20 16:14:26 -0400
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Metrical inconsistencies and tradition
In-Reply-To: <B46C273E-81C5-4422-8597-D1B745A03C42@fas.harvard.edu>
Message-ID: <CAJ3b0o8-dDhU-ijFc8z-Mgg+Gs_0C8Yp4tbTxVdgPunakqLK0w@mail.gmail.com>

Since most of us don't have access to libraries right now, would any
members have a pdf of this to share.
 Its a topic I've been trying unsuccessfully to find information about for
years.

Thanks,
Harry Spier

On Mon, Mar 30, 2020 at 12:14 PM Witzel, Michael via INDOLOGY <
indology at list.indology.info> wrote:

> See now:
>
> *Mieko Kajihara  (Tokyo Univ.) *
>
> *The Sacred Verse Sa?vitri? in the Vedic Religion and Beyond. *
>
> *Journal of Indological Studies, Numbers 30 & 31 (2018-2019) pp. 1-36. *
>
> Cheers,
> MW
>
> On Mar 30, 2020, at 11:50 AM, Dominik Haas via INDOLOGY <
> indology at list.indology.info> wrote:
>
> Dear Harry,
>
> thanks a lot for the reference, didn't know this one! Even the wrong
> accent is noted there already.
>
> Well yes, mantras like these were called G?yatr?s. The matter is a bit
> complicated though. As far as I have come to understand it, they were
> called thus because they imitate the famous G?yatr? verse (?gveda III
> 62.10) or are modified versions of it. But this verse acquired the name
> ?G?yatr?? rather late (considering its own age), for the first time perhaps
> in the Taittir?ya-?ra?yaka and then also in later additions the
> Dharmas?tras (in the Mah?bharata, too, the verse is called G?yatr? several
> times, especially in the later strata).
>
> So the point is that the modified G?yatr?s were perhaps never actually
> thought to be in the *g?yatr?* metre (not even by its creators, whenever
> they lived), but were only called G?yatr? because they resemble the verse.
> I normally use *g?yatr? *for the metre and G?yatr? for the verse (I did
> not do so in my previous email though). So the modified G?yatr?s are
> probably not examples for metrical license, i.e., they are not *g?yatr?*
> verses, even though they are called G?yatr?s.
>
> But it could very well be that some commentator explained them to be in
> the *g?yatr?* metre, but a *g?yatr?* metre with extra syllables etc.
>
> Best regards,
>
> Dominik
>
> __________________
> *Dominik A. Haas, BA MA*
> PhD Candidate, University of Vienna
> dominik.haas at univie.ac.at
> ORCID 0000-0002-8505-6112
> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__orcid.org_0000-2D0002-2D8505-2D6112&d=DwMDaQ&c=WO-RGvefibhHBZq3fL85hQ&r=tFXzIbyKS2C0TpVqKsMrj46qwsAermBN5wzaDe51So0&m=D4CPG7AdYt2M9wvLgDyU9v4FiVY8uLgVd_HKq5xVfGM&s=4wYLpJsXqZ6-txptEoO0vGowbD3AByyEOEnDivti6GE&e=>
>
> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__univie.academia.edu_DominikHaas&d=DwMDaQ&c=WO-RGvefibhHBZq3fL85hQ&r=tFXzIbyKS2C0TpVqKsMrj46qwsAermBN5wzaDe51So0&m=D4CPG7AdYt2M9wvLgDyU9v4FiVY8uLgVd_HKq5xVfGM&s=QEwobD3coXqvrhPOWcwNA-1cR5iU1MqlQFTpaqTwV0Y&e=>
> follow my work on
> univie.academia.edu/DominikHaas
> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.academia.edu_keypass_ZW5ZRXhKRStPR21EbjZXN2sycGJ3UTJBa3RXRmdzMS8xcUNsZ05BNFM1ST0tLVNHeXJFaks5aVNNTEpRb21BYkVKOFE9PQ-3D-3D-2D-2De24213c0e3c20341d456d6e3cac8b41f86179746_t_QmyD-2DNHD76Sz-2DyeiD0_followings_follow-3Ffollowee-5Fid-3D8049457-26s-3Dfollowing-5Fyou-5Fbundled-5Femail&d=DwMDaQ&c=WO-RGvefibhHBZq3fL85hQ&r=tFXzIbyKS2C0TpVqKsMrj46qwsAermBN5wzaDe51So0&m=D4CPG7AdYt2M9wvLgDyU9v4FiVY8uLgVd_HKq5xVfGM&s=bLqhqTPAwCqY9rX-kyFhLuO99pd64sBYsxR3TXVOGFc&e=>
>
>
>
> On Mon, Mar 30, 2020 at 8:45 AM Dominik Haas via INDOLOGY <
> indology at list.indology.info> wrote:
>
>>
>> Perhaps a short note on the modified ?G?yatr?s? in the
>> Maitr?ya??-Sa?hit?: the creators of these verses simply inserted a certain
>> deity without too much regard for metre. The non-adjusted accentuation
>> perhaps also shows that the ?G?yatr?s? in this text are more pieced
>> together than composed anew (*pracod?y?t* is still accented, even though
>> it's now the verb of a main clause ? or is there another explanation?).
>>
> Thank you for this Dominik.
>
> The author in the following link, for the reasons you've mentioned and
> because the gayatris are  mostly to later deities, argues that this section
> of the  Maitr?ya??-Sa?hit?:   is interpolated:
> https://books.google.ca/books?id=X0JUwf2BXVAC&pg=PA57&lpg=PA57&dq=maitrayani+samhita+x.9.1&source=bl&ots=zfBpMv9w-q&sig=ACfU3U2LME_WHFLc9K4mr4lvOD8UVoCkEg&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiIuojYs8LoAhUImuAKHYHQDPEQ6AEwAHoECAkQAQ#v=onepage&q=maitrayani%20samhita%20x.9.1&f=false
> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__books.google.ca_books-3Fid-3DX0JUwf2BXVAC-26pg-3DPA57-26lpg-3DPA57-26dq-3Dmaitrayani-2Bsamhita-2Bx.9.1-26source-3Dbl-26ots-3DzfBpMv9w-2Dq-26sig-3DACfU3U2LME-5FWHFLc9K4mr4lvOD8UVoCkEg-26hl-3Den-26sa-3DX-26ved-3D2ahUKEwiIuojYs8LoAhUImuAKHYHQDPEQ6AEwAHoECAkQAQ-23v-3Donepage-26q-3Dmaitrayani-2520samhita-2520x.9.1-26f-3Dfalse&d=DwMDaQ&c=WO-RGvefibhHBZq3fL85hQ&r=tFXzIbyKS2C0TpVqKsMrj46qwsAermBN5wzaDe51So0&m=D4CPG7AdYt2M9wvLgDyU9v4FiVY8uLgVd_HKq5xVfGM&s=wp_nAROr8ZmmHizUXyUIS26tKLO2dbPIOY-F3LTGoLA&e=>
>
> You also asked:
>  I wonder whether and where they are actually called G?yatr?s?
>
> If you do a search of the Muktabodha searchable e-text  digital library
> for <gAyatrI> you'll see that throughout the tantric literature these types
> of mantras are called   g?yatr? or g?yatr?matra or  the deity name
> compounded with  g?yatr?  such as: n?si?hag?yatr?  etc. If I recall
> correctly they are called  g?yatr? much more often than  g?yatr?mantra.
>
> Harry Spier
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
> committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
> unsubscribe)
>
>
> Michael Witzel
> Wales Prof. of Sanskrit, Dept. of South Asian Studies, 1 Bow
> Street, Cambridge, MA 02138, USA
> ph. 1 - 617 496 2990
> witzel at fas.harvard.edu
> www.people.fas.harvard.edu/~witzel/mwpage.htm
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
> committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
> unsubscribe)
>


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From witzel at fas.harvard.edu  Mon Mar 30 20:39:00 2020
From: witzel at fas.harvard.edu (Witzel, Michael)
Date: Mon, 30 Mar 20 20:39:00 +0000
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Metrical inconsistencies and tradition
In-Reply-To: <CAJ3b0o8-dDhU-ijFc8z-Mgg+Gs_0C8Yp4tbTxVdgPunakqLK0w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <A29B0344-2664-4987-881E-8498F4847A4D@fas.harvard.edu>

Dear Harry and All,

the Gayatri paper is available at:

 https://u-tokyo.academia.edu/MiekoKAJIHARA/Papers

Best wishes,

Michael

On Mar 30, 2020, at 4:14 PM, Harry Spier <vasishtha.spier at gmail.com<mailto:vasishtha.spier at gmail.com>> wrote:

Since most of us don't have access to libraries right now, would any members have a pdf of this to share.
 Its a topic I've been trying unsuccessfully to find information about for years.

Thanks,
Harry Spier

On Mon, Mar 30, 2020 at 12:14 PM Witzel, Michael via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info<mailto:indology at list.indology.info>> wrote:
See now:

Mieko Kajihara  (Tokyo Univ.)

The Sacred Verse Sa?vitri?
 in the Vedic Religion and Beyond.
Journal of Indological Studies, Numbers 30 & 31 (2018-2019) pp. 1-36.


Cheers,
MW

On Mar 30, 2020, at 11:50 AM, Dominik Haas via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info<mailto:indology at list.indology.info>> wrote:


Dear Harry,

thanks a lot for the reference, didn't know this one! Even the wrong accent is noted there already.

Well yes, mantras like these were called G?yatr?s. The matter is a bit complicated though. As far as I have come to understand it, they were called thus because they imitate the famous G?yatr? verse (?gveda III 62.10) or are modified versions of it. But this verse acquired the name ?G?yatr?? rather late (considering its own age), for the first time perhaps in the Taittir?ya-?ra?yaka and then also in later additions the Dharmas?tras (in the Mah?bharata, too, the verse is called G?yatr? several times, especially in the later strata).

So the point is that the modified G?yatr?s were perhaps never actually thought to be in the g?yatr? metre (not even by its creators, whenever they lived), but were only called G?yatr? because they resemble the verse. I normally use g?yatr? for the metre and G?yatr? for the verse (I did not do so in my previous email though). So the modified G?yatr?s are probably not examples for metrical license, i.e., they are not g?yatr? verses, even though they are called G?yatr?s.

But it could very well be that some commentator explained them to be in the g?yatr? metre, but a g?yatr? metre with extra syllables etc.

Best regards,

Dominik

__________________
Dominik A. Haas, BA MA
PhD Candidate, University of Vienna
dominik.haas at univie.ac.at <mailto:dominik.haas at univie.ac.at>
ORCID 0000-0002-8505-6112 <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__orcid.org_0000-2D0002-2D8505-2D6112&d=DwMDaQ&c=WO-RGvefibhHBZq3fL85hQ&r=tFXzIbyKS2C0TpVqKsMrj46qwsAermBN5wzaDe51So0&m=D4CPG7AdYt2M9wvLgDyU9v4FiVY8uLgVd_HKq5xVfGM&s=4wYLpJsXqZ6-txptEoO0vGowbD3AByyEOEnDivti6GE&e=>
<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__univie.academia.edu_DominikHaas&d=DwMDaQ&c=WO-RGvefibhHBZq3fL85hQ&r=tFXzIbyKS2C0TpVqKsMrj46qwsAermBN5wzaDe51So0&m=D4CPG7AdYt2M9wvLgDyU9v4FiVY8uLgVd_HKq5xVfGM&s=QEwobD3coXqvrhPOWcwNA-1cR5iU1MqlQFTpaqTwV0Y&e=>
follow my work on
univie.academia.edu/DominikHaas <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.academia.edu_keypass_ZW5ZRXhKRStPR21EbjZXN2sycGJ3UTJBa3RXRmdzMS8xcUNsZ05BNFM1ST0tLVNHeXJFaks5aVNNTEpRb21BYkVKOFE9PQ-3D-3D-2D-2De24213c0e3c20341d456d6e3cac8b41f86179746_t_QmyD-2DNHD76Sz-2DyeiD0_followings_follow-3Ffollowee-5Fid-3D8049457-26s-3Dfollowing-5Fyou-5Fbundled-5Femail&d=DwMDaQ&c=WO-RGvefibhHBZq3fL85hQ&r=tFXzIbyKS2C0TpVqKsMrj46qwsAermBN5wzaDe51So0&m=D4CPG7AdYt2M9wvLgDyU9v4FiVY8uLgVd_HKq5xVfGM&s=bLqhqTPAwCqY9rX-kyFhLuO99pd64sBYsxR3TXVOGFc&e=>



On Mon, Mar 30, 2020 at 8:45 AM Dominik Haas via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info<mailto:indology at list.indology.info>> wrote:


Perhaps a short note on the modified ?G?yatr?s? in the Maitr?ya??-Sa?hit?: the creators of these verses simply inserted a certain deity without too much regard for metre. The non-adjusted accentuation perhaps also shows that the ?G?yatr?s? in this text are more pieced together than composed anew (pracod?y?t is still accented, even though it's now the verb of a main clause ? or is there another explanation?).

Thank you for this Dominik.

The author in the following link, for the reasons you've mentioned and because the gayatris are  mostly to later deities, argues that this section of the  Maitr?ya??-Sa?hit?:   is interpolated:  https://books.google.ca/books?id=X0JUwf2BXVAC&pg=PA57&lpg=PA57&dq=maitrayani+samhita+x.9.1&source=bl&ots=zfBpMv9w-q&sig=ACfU3U2LME_WHFLc9K4mr4lvOD8UVoCkEg&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiIuojYs8LoAhUImuAKHYHQDPEQ6AEwAHoECAkQAQ#v=onepage&q=maitrayani%20samhita%20x.9.1&f=false<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__books.google.ca_books-3Fid-3DX0JUwf2BXVAC-26pg-3DPA57-26lpg-3DPA57-26dq-3Dmaitrayani-2Bsamhita-2Bx.9.1-26source-3Dbl-26ots-3DzfBpMv9w-2Dq-26sig-3DACfU3U2LME-5FWHFLc9K4mr4lvOD8UVoCkEg-26hl-3Den-26sa-3DX-26ved-3D2ahUKEwiIuojYs8LoAhUImuAKHYHQDPEQ6AEwAHoECAkQAQ-23v-3Donepage-26q-3Dmaitrayani-2520samhita-2520x.9.1-26f-3Dfalse&d=DwMDaQ&c=WO-RGvefibhHBZq3fL85hQ&r=tFXzIbyKS2C0TpVqKsMrj46qwsAermBN5wzaDe51So0&m=D4CPG7AdYt2M9wvLgDyU9v4FiVY8uLgVd_HKq5xVfGM&s=wp_nAROr8ZmmHizUXyUIS26tKLO2dbPIOY-F3LTGoLA&e=>

You also asked:
 I wonder whether and where they are actually called G?yatr?s?

If you do a search of the Muktabodha searchable e-text  digital library   for <gAyatrI> you'll see that throughout the tantric literature these types of mantras are called   g?yatr? or g?yatr?matra or  the deity name compounded with  g?yatr?  such as: n?si?hag?yatr?  etc. If I recall correctly they are called  g?yatr? much more often than  g?yatr?mantra.

Harry Spier


_______________________________________________
INDOLOGY mailing list
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Michael Witzel
Wales Prof. of Sanskrit, Dept. of South Asian Studies, 1 Bow Street, Cambridge, MA 02138, USA
ph. 1 - 617 496 2990
witzel at fas.harvard.edu<mailto:witzel at fas.harvard.edu>
www.people.fas.harvard.edu/~witzel/mwpage.htm<http://www.people.fas.harvard.edu/~witzel/mwpage.htm>



_______________________________________________
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Michael Witzel
Wales Prof. of Sanskrit, Dept. of South Asian Studies, 1 Bow Street, Cambridge, MA 02138, USA
ph. 1 - 617 496 2990
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www.people.fas.harvard.edu/~witzel/mwpage.htm





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From j.jurewicz at uw.edu.pl  Mon Mar 30 20:58:12 2020
From: j.jurewicz at uw.edu.pl (Joanna Jurewicz)
Date: Mon, 30 Mar 20 22:58:12 +0200
Subject: [INDOLOGY] A distraction from the Coronavirus
In-Reply-To: <4dbf7da1f3b56a6f00090bf19b491310@univie.ac.at>
Message-ID: <CAAPrgboMBTB=QTVSa_+PnfqnonRDzFc2P1L1b9KWoW=-Qb=mtw@mail.gmail.com>

Oh, I love this with mask, Christian. Frankly speaking, I enjoy all of
them.

And I am amazed by the discussion these poems incited.

Well, this is a perennial problem: Is poetry is free from rules or not? Is
there room for any innovation? For bold breaking rules?

With best wishes to all,


3.062.14a     s?mo asm?bhya? dvip?de
3.062.14b     c?tu?pade ca pa??ve
3.062.14c     anam?v?? ??as karat

I would not dare to compose the poems in Sanskrit. The only language I can
do that is Polish.

Joanna


---

Prof. dr hab. Joanna Jurewicz

Katedra Azji Po?udniowej /Chair of South Asia

Wydzia? Orientalistyczny / Faculty of Oriental Studies

Uniwersytet Warszawski /University of Warsaw

ul. Krakowskie Przedmie?cie 26/28

00-927 Warszawa , Poland

Department of Linguistics and Modern Languages

College of Human Sciences

UNISA

Pretoria, RSA

Member of Academia Europaea

https://uw.academia.edu/JoannaJurewicz


pt., 27 mar 2020 o 08:09 Christian Ferstl via INDOLOGY <
indology at list.indology.info> napisa?(a):

> Face masks would indeed be a problem at Damayant?'s svaya?vara:
>
> ????????? ??????? ?????????? ???????? ?
> ? ?????? ????? ????? ????????????????? ?
>
> But the gods were the same to Damayant? anyway.
>
> Best,
> Christian Ferstl
> University of Vienna
>
>
> Am 26.03.2020 23:21, schrieb Valerie Roebuck:
> > Dear talented colleagues
> >
> > I am enjoying these topical verses so much. If only we had a
> > miniaturist who could portray these scenes, perhaps with the hero and
> > heroine wearing face masks!
> >
> > Valerie Roebuck
> > Manchester, UK
> >
> >> On 26 Mar 2020, at 19:59, Madhav Deshpande via INDOLOGY
> >> <indology at list.indology.info> wrote:
> >>
> >> ???
> >>
> >> Madhav M. Deshpande
> >> Professor Emeritus, Sanskrit and Linguistics
> >> University of Michigan, Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA
> >> Senior Fellow, Oxford Center for Hindu Studies
> >>
> >> [Residence: Campbell, California, USA]
> >>
> >> On Thu, Mar 26, 2020 at 12:30 PM Christian Ferstl
> >> <christian.ferstl at univie.ac.at> wrote:
> >>
> >>> And Arjuna says to Draupadi --
> >>>
> >>> ??? ? ???????? ?????? ??
> >>> ???????? ???? ?
> >>> ??????????????? ???
> >>> ???????? ???????? ?
> >>>
> >>> Today my hand must not touch your lotus-like hand.
> >>> That demon called Corona must be killed by the God of Love!
> >>>
> >>> It seems I'm kind of infected by Prof. Deshpande's karona-k?vya
> >>> virus.
> >>>
> >>> Christian Ferstl
> >>> University of Vienna
> >>>
> >>> Am 26.03.2020 15:23, schrieb Madhav Deshpande via INDOLOGY:
> >>>> Draupadi says to Arjuna -
> >>>>
> >>>> ??????? ?? ???????
> >>>> ??????? ????? ? ???????:
> >>> ?
> >>>>
> >>>> ?????????????????????
> >>>> ????????? ??????? ??
> >>>>
> >>>> O Arjuna, don?t shoot the fish [with your arrow, to prove that
> >>> you
> >>>> are the best archer], since the ceremony of choosing the groom
> >>> will
> >>>> not be happening. After the Coronavirus goes away, please come
> >>> back
> >>>> quickly.
> >>>>
> >>>> Madhav M. Deshpande
> >>>> Professor Emeritus, Sanskrit and Linguistics
> >>>> University of Michigan, Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA
> >>>> Senior Fellow, Oxford Center for Hindu Studies
> >>>>
> >>>> [Residence: Campbell, California, USA]
> >>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>> INDOLOGY mailing list
> >>>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> >>>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's
> >>> managing
> >>>> committee)
> >>>> http://listinfo.indology.info [1] (where you can change your
> >>> list options
> >>>> or unsubscribe)
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> INDOLOGY mailing list
> >> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> >> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
> >> committee)
> >> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list
> >> options or unsubscribe)
> >
> >
> >
> > Links:
> > ------
> > [1] http://listinfo.indology.info/
>
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
> committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
> unsubscribe)
>


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From vasishtha.spier at gmail.com  Mon Mar 30 22:13:54 2020
From: vasishtha.spier at gmail.com (Harry Spier)
Date: Mon, 30 Mar 20 18:13:54 -0400
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Metrical inconsistencies and tradition
In-Reply-To: <57b91410-3b24-a4f0-2f83-3596a2d60deb@univie.ac.at>
Message-ID: <CAJ3b0o9MvQcp7Rn9r2QvZTQRt0-ROjKMKrci=J54+9WDtHywzQ@mail.gmail.com>

It was just pointed out to me off-list that  the  g?yatr? to ga?e?a
in the ga?e??tharva??rsam,
, the meter is called  nic?dg?yatr? = broken  g?yatr?, but I don't see why
the meter is called "broken g?yatr? .  Its three lines of 8 syllables
each.  Or are there other rules for  g?yatr? meter other than number of
syllables.

sai?? ga?e?avidy? | ga?aka ??i? | nic?dg?yatr? chanda? | ga?apatir devat? |
o? ga? ||

ekadant?ya vidmahe vakratu???ya dh?mahi | tan no dant? pracoday?t ||

Thanks,

Harry Spier

On Mon, Mar 30, 2020 at 11:51 AM Dominik Haas <dominik.haas at univie.ac.at>
wrote:

> Dear Harry,
>
> thanks a lot for the reference, didn't know this one! Even the wrong
> accent is noted there already.
>
> Well yes, mantras like these were called G?yatr?s. The matter is a bit
> complicated though. As far as I have come to understand it, they were
> called thus because they imitate the famous G?yatr? verse (?gveda III
> 62.10) or are modified versions of it. But this verse acquired the name
> ?G?yatr?? rather late (considering its own age), for the first time perhaps
> in the Taittir?ya-?ra?yaka and then also in later additions the
> Dharmas?tras (in the Mah?bharata, too, the verse is called G?yatr? several
> times, especially in the later strata).
>
> So the point is that the modified G?yatr?s were perhaps never actually
> thought to be in the *g?yatr?* metre (not even by its creators, whenever
> they lived), but were only called G?yatr? because they resemble the verse.
> I normally use *g?yatr? *for the metre and G?yatr? for the verse (I did
> not do so in my previous email though). So the modified G?yatr?s are
> probably not examples for metrical license, i.e., they are not *g?yatr?*
> verses, even though they are called G?yatr?s.
>
> But it could very well be that some commentator explained them to be in
> the *g?yatr?* metre, but a *g?yatr?* metre with extra syllables etc.
>
> Best regards,
>
> Dominik
>
> __________________
> *Dominik A. Haas, BA MA*
> PhD Candidate, University of Vienna
> dominik.haas at univie.ac.at
> ORCID 0000-0002-8505-6112 <https://orcid.org/0000-0002-8505-6112>
> <https://univie.academia.edu/DominikHaas>
> follow my work on
> univie.academia.edu/DominikHaas
> <https://www.academia.edu/keypass/ZW5ZRXhKRStPR21EbjZXN2sycGJ3UTJBa3RXRmdzMS8xcUNsZ05BNFM1ST0tLVNHeXJFaks5aVNNTEpRb21BYkVKOFE9PQ==--e24213c0e3c20341d456d6e3cac8b41f86179746/t/QmyD-NHD76Sz-yeiD0/followings/follow?followee_id=8049457&s=following_you_bundled_email>
>
>
>
> On Mon, Mar 30, 2020 at 8:45 AM Dominik Haas via INDOLOGY <
> indology at list.indology.info> wrote:
>
>>
>> Perhaps a short note on the modified ?G?yatr?s? in the
>> Maitr?ya??-Sa?hit?: the creators of these verses simply inserted a certain
>> deity without too much regard for metre. The non-adjusted accentuation
>> perhaps also shows that the ?G?yatr?s? in this text are more pieced
>> together than composed anew (*pracod?y?t* is still accented, even though
>> it's now the verb of a main clause ? or is there another explanation?).
>>
> Thank you for this Dominik.
>
> The author in the following link, for the reasons you've mentioned and
> because the gayatris are  mostly to later deities, argues that this section
> of the  Maitr?ya??-Sa?hit?:   is interpolated:
> https://books.google.ca/books?id=X0JUwf2BXVAC&pg=PA57&lpg=PA57&dq=maitrayani+samhita+x.9.1&source=bl&ots=zfBpMv9w-q&sig=ACfU3U2LME_WHFLc9K4mr4lvOD8UVoCkEg&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiIuojYs8LoAhUImuAKHYHQDPEQ6AEwAHoECAkQAQ#v=onepage&q=maitrayani%20samhita%20x.9.1&f=false
>
> You also asked:
>  I wonder whether and where they are actually called G?yatr?s?
>
> If you do a search of the Muktabodha searchable e-text  digital library
> for <gAyatrI> you'll see that throughout the tantric literature these types
> of mantras are called   g?yatr? or g?yatr?matra or  the deity name
> compounded with  g?yatr?  such as: n?si?hag?yatr?  etc. If I recall
> correctly they are called  g?yatr? much more often than  g?yatr?mantra.
>
> Harry Spier
>
>
>


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From christian.ferstl at univie.ac.at  Tue Mar 31 06:52:37 2020
From: christian.ferstl at univie.ac.at (Christian Ferstl)
Date: Tue, 31 Mar 20 08:52:37 +0200
Subject: [INDOLOGY] A distraction from the Coronavirus
In-Reply-To: <CAAPrgboMBTB=QTVSa_+PnfqnonRDzFc2P1L1b9KWoW=-Qb=mtw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <33a7b4c0891fd63070e603fb42535d11@univie.ac.at>

Here's an other one with a face mask:

???????? ????????? ??????????????? ?
?????????????????? ???????????? ? ?? ?

Out of fear of the Corona virus Sita, wearing a lotus leaf face mask,
wanted a golden deer - not a Pangolin from China.


Christian Ferstl


Am 30.03.2020 22:58, schrieb Joanna Jurewicz:
> Oh, I love this with mask, Christian. Frankly speaking, I enjoy all of
> them.
> 
> And I am amazed by the discussion these poems incited.
> 
> Well, this is a perennial problem: Is poetry is free from rules or
> not? Is there room for any innovation? For bold breaking rules?
> 
> With best wishes to all,
> 
> 3.062.14a     s?mo asm?bhya? dvip?de
> 3.062.14b     c?tu?pade ca pa??ve
> 3.062.14c     anam?v?? ??as karat
> 
> I would not dare to compose the poems in Sanskrit. The only language I
> can do that is Polish.
> 
> Joanna
> 
> ---
> 
> Prof. dr hab. Joanna Jurewicz
> 
> Katedra Azji Po?udniowej /Chair of South Asia
> 
> Wydzia? Orientalistyczny / Faculty of Oriental Studies
> 
> Uniwersytet Warszawski /University of Warsaw
> 
> ul. Krakowskie Przedmie?cie 26/28
> 
> 00-927 Warszawa , Poland
> 
> Department of Linguistics and Modern Languages
> 
> College of Human Sciences
> 
> UNISA
> 
> Pretoria, RSA
> 
> Member of Academia Europaea
> 
> https://uw.academia.edu/JoannaJurewicz
> 
> pt., 27 mar 2020 o 08:09 Christian Ferstl via INDOLOGY
> <indology at list.indology.info> napisa?(a):
> 
>> Face masks would indeed be a problem at Damayant?'s svaya?vara:
>> 
>> ????????? ???????
>> ?????????? ???????? ?
>> ? ?????? ????? ?????
>> ????????????????? ?
>> 
>> But the gods were the same to Damayant? anyway.
>> 
>> Best,
>> Christian Ferstl
>> University of Vienna
>> 
>> Am 26.03.2020 23:21, schrieb Valerie Roebuck:
>>> Dear talented colleagues
>>> 
>>> I am enjoying these topical verses so much. If only we had a
>>> miniaturist who could portray these scenes, perhaps with the hero
>> and
>>> heroine wearing face masks!
>>> 
>>> Valerie Roebuck
>>> Manchester, UK
>>> 
>>>> On 26 Mar 2020, at 19:59, Madhav Deshpande via INDOLOGY
>>>> <indology at list.indology.info> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> ???
>>>> 
>>>> Madhav M. Deshpande
>>>> Professor Emeritus, Sanskrit and Linguistics
>>>> University of Michigan, Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA
>>>> Senior Fellow, Oxford Center for Hindu Studies
>>>> 
>>>> [Residence: Campbell, California, USA]
>>>> 
>>>> On Thu, Mar 26, 2020 at 12:30 PM Christian Ferstl
>>>> <christian.ferstl at univie.ac.at> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> And Arjuna says to Draupadi --
>>>>> 
>>>>> ??? ? ???????? ?????? ??
>>>>> ???????? ???? ?
>>>>> ??????????????? ???
>>>>> ???????? ???????? ?
>>>>> 
>>>>> Today my hand must not touch your lotus-like hand.
>>>>> That demon called Corona must be killed by the God of Love!
>>>>> 
>>>>> It seems I'm kind of infected by Prof. Deshpande's karona-k?vya
>>>>> virus.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Christian Ferstl
>>>>> University of Vienna
>>>>> 
>>>>> Am 26.03.2020 15:23, schrieb Madhav Deshpande via INDOLOGY:
>>>>>> Draupadi says to Arjuna -
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> ??????? ?? ???????
>>>>>> ??????? ????? ?
>> ???????:
>>>>> ?
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> ?????????????????????
>>>>>> ????????? ??????? ??
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> O Arjuna, don?t shoot the fish [with your arrow, to prove
>> that
>>>>> you
>>>>>> are the best archer], since the ceremony of choosing the groom
>>>>> will
>>>>>> not be happening. After the Coronavirus goes away, please come
>>>>> back
>>>>>> quickly.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Madhav M. Deshpande
>>>>>> Professor Emeritus, Sanskrit and Linguistics
>>>>>> University of Michigan, Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA
>>>>>> Senior Fellow, Oxford Center for Hindu Studies
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> [Residence: Campbell, California, USA]
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>>>>>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>>>>>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's
>>>>> managing
>>>>>> committee)
>>>>>> http://listinfo.indology.info [1] (where you can change your
>>>>> list options
>>>>>> or unsubscribe)
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>>>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>>>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's
>> managing
>>>> committee)
>>>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list
>>>> options or unsubscribe)
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Links:
>>> ------
>>> [1] http://listinfo.indology.info/
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
>> committee)
>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list
>> options or unsubscribe)





From danbalogh at gmail.com  Tue Mar 31 07:16:21 2020
From: danbalogh at gmail.com (=?utf-8?Q?D=C3=A1niel_Balogh?=)
Date: Tue, 31 Mar 20 09:16:21 +0200
Subject: [INDOLOGY] A distraction from the Coronavirus
In-Reply-To: <33a7b4c0891fd63070e603fb42535d11@univie.ac.at>
Message-ID: <CAM0n-bXSLD6Ek3f7mi_ye5RQWYs5FB2PjXit680x3Z1o18V_pw@mail.gmail.com>

OK, can't resist getting on the bandwagon.
A little continuation to Christian's excellent earlier one about
Damayant?'s svaya?vara.

???? ?? ????? ???? ??????? ??????? ??????????

??????????????????? ????????? ???????????

"God or man? What's the difference when their face is covered?"
"But we can tell right away by their unblinking gaze."

Daniel

On Tue, 31 Mar 2020 at 08:53, Christian Ferstl via INDOLOGY <
indology at list.indology.info> wrote:

> Here's an other one with a face mask:
>
> ???????? ????????? ??????????????? ?
> ?????????????????? ???????????? ? ?? ?
>
> Out of fear of the Corona virus Sita, wearing a lotus leaf face mask,
> wanted a golden deer - not a Pangolin from China.
>
>
> Christian Ferstl
>
>
> Am 30.03.2020 22:58, schrieb Joanna Jurewicz:
> > Oh, I love this with mask, Christian. Frankly speaking, I enjoy all of
> > them.
> >
> > And I am amazed by the discussion these poems incited.
> >
> > Well, this is a perennial problem: Is poetry is free from rules or
> > not? Is there room for any innovation? For bold breaking rules?
> >
> > With best wishes to all,
> >
> > 3.062.14a     s?mo asm?bhya? dvip?de
> > 3.062.14b     c?tu?pade ca pa??ve
> > 3.062.14c     anam?v?? ??as karat
> >
> > I would not dare to compose the poems in Sanskrit. The only language I
> > can do that is Polish.
> >
> > Joanna
> >
> > ---
> >
> > Prof. dr hab. Joanna Jurewicz
> >
> > Katedra Azji Po?udniowej /Chair of South Asia
> >
> > Wydzia? Orientalistyczny / Faculty of Oriental Studies
> >
> > Uniwersytet Warszawski /University of Warsaw
> >
> > ul. Krakowskie Przedmie?cie 26/28
> >
> > 00-927 Warszawa , Poland
> >
> > Department of Linguistics and Modern Languages
> >
> > College of Human Sciences
> >
> > UNISA
> >
> > Pretoria, RSA
> >
> > Member of Academia Europaea
> >
> > https://uw.academia.edu/JoannaJurewicz
> >
> > pt., 27 mar 2020 o 08:09 Christian Ferstl via INDOLOGY
> > <indology at list.indology.info> napisa?(a):
> >
> >> Face masks would indeed be a problem at Damayant?'s svaya?vara:
> >>
> >> ????????? ???????
> >> ?????????? ???????? ?
> >> ? ?????? ????? ?????
> >> ????????????????? ?
> >>
> >> But the gods were the same to Damayant? anyway.
> >>
> >> Best,
> >> Christian Ferstl
> >> University of Vienna
> >>
> >> Am 26.03.2020 23:21, schrieb Valerie Roebuck:
> >>> Dear talented colleagues
> >>>
> >>> I am enjoying these topical verses so much. If only we had a
> >>> miniaturist who could portray these scenes, perhaps with the hero
> >> and
> >>> heroine wearing face masks!
> >>>
> >>> Valerie Roebuck
> >>> Manchester, UK
> >>>
> >>>> On 26 Mar 2020, at 19:59, Madhav Deshpande via INDOLOGY
> >>>> <indology at list.indology.info> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> ???
> >>>>
> >>>> Madhav M. Deshpande
> >>>> Professor Emeritus, Sanskrit and Linguistics
> >>>> University of Michigan, Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA
> >>>> Senior Fellow, Oxford Center for Hindu Studies
> >>>>
> >>>> [Residence: Campbell, California, USA]
> >>>>
> >>>> On Thu, Mar 26, 2020 at 12:30 PM Christian Ferstl
> >>>> <christian.ferstl at univie.ac.at> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>> And Arjuna says to Draupadi --
> >>>>>
> >>>>> ??? ? ???????? ?????? ??
> >>>>> ???????? ???? ?
> >>>>> ??????????????? ???
> >>>>> ???????? ???????? ?
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Today my hand must not touch your lotus-like hand.
> >>>>> That demon called Corona must be killed by the God of Love!
> >>>>>
> >>>>> It seems I'm kind of infected by Prof. Deshpande's karona-k?vya
> >>>>> virus.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Christian Ferstl
> >>>>> University of Vienna
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Am 26.03.2020 15:23, schrieb Madhav Deshpande via INDOLOGY:
> >>>>>> Draupadi says to Arjuna -
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> ??????? ?? ???????
> >>>>>> ??????? ????? ?
> >> ???????:
> >>>>> ?
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> ?????????????????????
> >>>>>> ????????? ??????? ??
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> O Arjuna, don?t shoot the fish [with your arrow, to prove
> >> that
> >>>>> you
> >>>>>> are the best archer], since the ceremony of choosing the groom
> >>>>> will
> >>>>>> not be happening. After the Coronavirus goes away, please come
> >>>>> back
> >>>>>> quickly.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Madhav M. Deshpande
> >>>>>> Professor Emeritus, Sanskrit and Linguistics
> >>>>>> University of Michigan, Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA
> >>>>>> Senior Fellow, Oxford Center for Hindu Studies
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> [Residence: Campbell, California, USA]
> >>>>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>>>> INDOLOGY mailing list
> >>>>>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> >>>>>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's
> >>>>> managing
> >>>>>> committee)
> >>>>>> http://listinfo.indology.info [1] (where you can change your
> >>>>> list options
> >>>>>> or unsubscribe)
> >>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>> INDOLOGY mailing list
> >>>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> >>>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's
> >> managing
> >>>> committee)
> >>>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list
> >>>> options or unsubscribe)
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Links:
> >>> ------
> >>> [1] http://listinfo.indology.info/
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> INDOLOGY mailing list
> >> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> >> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
> >> committee)
> >> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list
> >> options or unsubscribe)
>
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
> committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
> unsubscribe)
>


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From dominik.haas at univie.ac.at  Tue Mar 31 07:42:18 2020
From: dominik.haas at univie.ac.at (Dominik Haas)
Date: Tue, 31 Mar 20 09:42:18 +0200
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Metrical inconsistencies and tradition
In-Reply-To: <CAJ3b0o9MvQcp7Rn9r2QvZTQRt0-ROjKMKrci=J54+9WDtHywzQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <abb2e65f-649b-c5a0-f4a4-0967d654cc35@univie.ac.at>


Yes, this would be exactly what I meant. In addition to having 8 
syllables per /p?da/, G?yatr?s are generally (but not always) iambic. 
But I can't really see that there's anything wrong with the metre of 
this Ga?e?a-G?yatr? (maybe it's called /nic?d/ because the original 
G?yatr? verse ended up with 7 syllables in the first /p?da/, and the 
author thought this was standard?).

Mieko Kajihara's very detailed paper is excellent and I can only 
recommend it! You can also expect more information about the mantra and 
especially its defication in my dissertation. It's still 
work-in-progress, but you can find drafts, presentations and papers on 
https://univie.academia.edu/DominikHaas. The project plan is also 
archived here, if you dislike academia.edu (which I perfectly 
understand, considering the amount of trash emails they now send on a 
daily basis): https://doi.org/10.25365/phaidra.103. Sorry for the 
self-promotion!

Best,

Dominik


__________________
*Dominik A. Haas, BA MA*
PhD Candidate, University of Vienna
dominik.haas at univie.ac.at <mailto:dominik.haas at univie.ac.at>
ORCID 0000-0002-8505-6112 <https://orcid.org/0000-0002-8505-6112>
<https://univie.academia.edu/DominikHaas>
follow my work on
univie.academia.edu/DominikHaas 
<https://www.academia.edu/keypass/ZW5ZRXhKRStPR21EbjZXN2sycGJ3UTJBa3RXRmdzMS8xcUNsZ05BNFM1ST0tLVNHeXJFaks5aVNNTEpRb21BYkVKOFE9PQ==--e24213c0e3c20341d456d6e3cac8b41f86179746/t/QmyD-NHD76Sz-yeiD0/followings/follow?followee_id=8049457&s=following_you_bundled_email> 




Am 31.03.2020 um 00:13 schrieb Harry Spier:
> It was just pointed out to me off-list that the g?yatr? to ga?e?a??in 
> the ga?e??tharva??rsam, , the meter is called nic?dg?yatr? = broken? 
> g?yatr?, but I don't see why the meter is called "broken g?yatr? .? 
> Its three lines of 8 syllables each.? Or are there other rules for 
> g?yatr? meter other than number of syllables.
>
> sai?? ga?e?avidy? | ga?aka ??i? | nic?dg?yatr? chanda? | ga?apatir 
> devat? | o? ga? ||
>
> ekadant?ya vidmahe vakratu???ya dh?mahi | tan no dant? pracoday?t ||
>
> Thanks,
>
> Harry Spier
>
>
> On Mon, Mar 30, 2020 at 11:51 AM Dominik Haas 
> <dominik.haas at univie.ac.at <mailto:dominik.haas at univie.ac.at>> wrote:
>
>     Dear Harry,
>
>     thanks a lot for the reference, didn't know this one! Even the
>     wrong accent is noted there already.
>
>     Well yes, mantras like these were called G?yatr?s. The matter is a
>     bit complicated though. As far as I have come to understand it,
>     they were called thus because they imitate the famous G?yatr?
>     verse (?gveda III 62.10) or are modified versions of it. But this
>     verse acquired the name ?G?yatr?? rather late (considering its own
>     age), for the first time perhaps in the Taittir?ya-?ra?yaka and
>     then also in later additions the Dharmas?tras (in the Mah?bharata,
>     too, the verse is called G?yatr? several times, especially in the
>     later strata).
>
>     So the point is that the modified G?yatr?s were perhaps never
>     actually thought to be in the /g?yatr?/ metre (not even by its
>     creators, whenever they lived), but were only called G?yatr?
>     because they resemble the verse. I normally use /g?yatr? /for the
>     metre and G?yatr? for the verse (I did not do so in my previous
>     email though). So the modified G?yatr?s are probably not examples
>     for metrical license, i.e., they are not /g?yatr?/ verses, even
>     though they are called G?yatr?s.
>
>     But it could very well be that some commentator explained them to
>     be in the /g?yatr?/ metre, but a /g?yatr?/ metre with extra
>     syllables etc.
>
>     Best regards,
>
>     Dominik
>
>
>     __________________
>     *Dominik A. Haas, BA MA*
>     PhD Candidate, University of Vienna
>     dominik.haas at univie.ac.at <mailto:dominik.haas at univie.ac.at>
>     ORCID 0000-0002-8505-6112 <https://orcid.org/0000-0002-8505-6112>
>     <https://univie.academia.edu/DominikHaas>
>     follow my work on
>     univie.academia.edu/DominikHaas
>     <https://www.academia.edu/keypass/ZW5ZRXhKRStPR21EbjZXN2sycGJ3UTJBa3RXRmdzMS8xcUNsZ05BNFM1ST0tLVNHeXJFaks5aVNNTEpRb21BYkVKOFE9PQ==--e24213c0e3c20341d456d6e3cac8b41f86179746/t/QmyD-NHD76Sz-yeiD0/followings/follow?followee_id=8049457&s=following_you_bundled_email>
>
>
>>
>>
>>     On Mon, Mar 30, 2020 at 8:45 AM Dominik Haas via INDOLOGY
>>     <indology at list.indology.info
>>     <mailto:indology at list.indology.info>> wrote:
>>
>>
>>         Perhaps a short note on the modified ?G?yatr?s? in the
>>         Maitr?ya??-Sa?hit?: the creators of these verses simply
>>         inserted a certain deity without too much regard for metre.
>>         The non-adjusted accentuation perhaps also shows that the
>>         ?G?yatr?s? in this text are more pieced together than
>>         composed anew (/pracod?y?t/ is still accented, even though
>>         it's now the verb of a main clause ? or is there another
>>         explanation?).
>>
>>     Thank you for this Dominik.
>>
>>     The author in the following link, for the reasons you've
>>     mentioned and because the gayatris are mostly to later deities,
>>     argues that this section of the? Maitr?ya??-Sa?hit?:???is
>>     interpolated:
>>     https://books.google.ca/books?id=X0JUwf2BXVAC&pg=PA57&lpg=PA57&dq=maitrayani+samhita+x.9.1&source=bl&ots=zfBpMv9w-q&sig=ACfU3U2LME_WHFLc9K4mr4lvOD8UVoCkEg&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiIuojYs8LoAhUImuAKHYHQDPEQ6AEwAHoECAkQAQ#v=onepage&q=maitrayani%20samhita%20x.9.1&f=false
>>     You also asked:
>>     ?I wonder whether and where they are actually called G?yatr?s?
>>
>>     If you do a search of the Muktabodha searchable e-text? digital
>>     library?? for <gAyatrI> you'll see that throughout the tantric
>>     literature these types of mantras are called g?yatr? or
>>     g?yatr?matra or? the deity name compounded with? g?yatr?? such
>>     as: n?si?hag?yatr?? etc. If I recall correctly they are called?
>>     g?yatr? much more often than g?yatr?mantra.
>>
>>     Harry Spier
>>
>>


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From pcbisschop at googlemail.com  Tue Mar 31 12:07:51 2020
From: pcbisschop at googlemail.com (peter bisschop)
Date: Tue, 31 Mar 20 14:07:51 +0200
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Book Publication Announcement
Message-ID: <CACDreE8AbPrtVZNF3yEZj4A8Lr64nRK2JL87ODg_FPHyLJE_xg@mail.gmail.com>

Dear Colleagues,

Apologies for cross-posting. I am pleased to draw your attention to the
publication of a new volume in Gonda Indological Studies (GIS 21):

Elizabeth A. Cecil, *Mapping the P??upata Landscape: Narrative, Place, and
the ?aiva Imaginary in Early Medieval North India*

In *Mapping the P??upata Landscape: Narrative, Place, and the ?aiva
Imaginary in Early Medieval North India*, Elizabeth A. Cecil explores the
sacred geography of the earliest community of ?iva devotees called the
P??upatas. This book brings the narrative cartography of the
*Skandapur??a* into
conversation with physical landscapes, inscriptions, monuments, and icons
in order to examine the ways in which P??upatas were emplaced in regional
landscapes and to emphasize the use of material culture as media through
which notions of belonging and identity were expressed. By exploring the
ties between the formation of early P??upata communities and the locales in
which they were embedded, this study reflects critically upon the ways in
which community building was coincident with place-making in Early Medieval
India.

Thanks to the generous support of the J. Gonda Foundation, the E-book is
also available via Open Access on Brill's website. You can access the book
via this link:
https://brill.com/view/title/56950

With best regards,

=====================================Peter C. Bisschop

Professor of Sanskrit and Ancient Cultures of South Asia
Leiden University Institute for Area Studies (LIAS)
P.O. Box 9515 / 2300 RA Leiden / The Netherlands


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From mmdesh at umich.edu  Tue Mar 31 12:25:17 2020
From: mmdesh at umich.edu (Madhav Deshpande)
Date: Tue, 31 Mar 20 05:25:17 -0700
Subject: [INDOLOGY] A distraction from the Coronavirus
In-Reply-To: <CAM0n-bXSLD6Ek3f7mi_ye5RQWYs5FB2PjXit680x3Z1o18V_pw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAB3-dzd18zrxQ4muTTy80nRiEcqjGzbJxxCwfGNL1ZqtXqWA0w@mail.gmail.com>

Excellent verses, Christian and D?niel.

Madhav M. Deshpande
Professor Emeritus, Sanskrit and Linguistics
University of Michigan, Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA
Senior Fellow, Oxford Center for Hindu Studies

[Residence: Campbell, California, USA]


On Tue, Mar 31, 2020 at 12:16 AM D?niel Balogh via INDOLOGY <
indology at list.indology.info> wrote:

> OK, can't resist getting on the bandwagon.
> A little continuation to Christian's excellent earlier one about
> Damayant?'s svaya?vara.
>
> ???? ?? ????? ???? ??????? ??????? ??????????
>
> ??????????????????? ????????? ???????????
>
> "God or man? What's the difference when their face is covered?"
> "But we can tell right away by their unblinking gaze."
>
> Daniel
>
> On Tue, 31 Mar 2020 at 08:53, Christian Ferstl via INDOLOGY <
> indology at list.indology.info> wrote:
>
>> Here's an other one with a face mask:
>>
>> ???????? ????????? ??????????????? ?
>> ?????????????????? ???????????? ? ?? ?
>>
>> Out of fear of the Corona virus Sita, wearing a lotus leaf face mask,
>> wanted a golden deer - not a Pangolin from China.
>>
>>
>> Christian Ferstl
>>
>>
>> Am 30.03.2020 22:58, schrieb Joanna Jurewicz:
>> > Oh, I love this with mask, Christian. Frankly speaking, I enjoy all of
>> > them.
>> >
>> > And I am amazed by the discussion these poems incited.
>> >
>> > Well, this is a perennial problem: Is poetry is free from rules or
>> > not? Is there room for any innovation? For bold breaking rules?
>> >
>> > With best wishes to all,
>> >
>> > 3.062.14a     s?mo asm?bhya? dvip?de
>> > 3.062.14b     c?tu?pade ca pa??ve
>> > 3.062.14c     anam?v?? ??as karat
>> >
>> > I would not dare to compose the poems in Sanskrit. The only language I
>> > can do that is Polish.
>> >
>> > Joanna
>> >
>> > ---
>> >
>> > Prof. dr hab. Joanna Jurewicz
>> >
>> > Katedra Azji Po?udniowej /Chair of South Asia
>> >
>> > Wydzia? Orientalistyczny / Faculty of Oriental Studies
>> >
>> > Uniwersytet Warszawski /University of Warsaw
>> >
>> > ul. Krakowskie Przedmie?cie 26/28
>> >
>> > 00-927 Warszawa , Poland
>> >
>> > Department of Linguistics and Modern Languages
>> >
>> > College of Human Sciences
>> >
>> > UNISA
>> >
>> > Pretoria, RSA
>> >
>> > Member of Academia Europaea
>> >
>> > https://uw.academia.edu/JoannaJurewicz
>> >
>> > pt., 27 mar 2020 o 08:09 Christian Ferstl via INDOLOGY
>> > <indology at list.indology.info> napisa?(a):
>> >
>> >> Face masks would indeed be a problem at Damayant?'s svaya?vara:
>> >>
>> >> ????????? ???????
>> >> ?????????? ???????? ?
>> >> ? ?????? ????? ?????
>> >> ????????????????? ?
>> >>
>> >> But the gods were the same to Damayant? anyway.
>> >>
>> >> Best,
>> >> Christian Ferstl
>> >> University of Vienna
>> >>
>> >> Am 26.03.2020 23:21, schrieb Valerie Roebuck:
>> >>> Dear talented colleagues
>> >>>
>> >>> I am enjoying these topical verses so much. If only we had a
>> >>> miniaturist who could portray these scenes, perhaps with the hero
>> >> and
>> >>> heroine wearing face masks!
>> >>>
>> >>> Valerie Roebuck
>> >>> Manchester, UK
>> >>>
>> >>>> On 26 Mar 2020, at 19:59, Madhav Deshpande via INDOLOGY
>> >>>> <indology at list.indology.info> wrote:
>> >>>>
>> >>>> ???
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Madhav M. Deshpande
>> >>>> Professor Emeritus, Sanskrit and Linguistics
>> >>>> University of Michigan, Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA
>> >>>> Senior Fellow, Oxford Center for Hindu Studies
>> >>>>
>> >>>> [Residence: Campbell, California, USA]
>> >>>>
>> >>>> On Thu, Mar 26, 2020 at 12:30 PM Christian Ferstl
>> >>>> <christian.ferstl at univie.ac.at> wrote:
>> >>>>
>> >>>>> And Arjuna says to Draupadi --
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> ??? ? ???????? ?????? ??
>> >>>>> ???????? ???? ?
>> >>>>> ??????????????? ???
>> >>>>> ???????? ???????? ?
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> Today my hand must not touch your lotus-like hand.
>> >>>>> That demon called Corona must be killed by the God of Love!
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> It seems I'm kind of infected by Prof. Deshpande's karona-k?vya
>> >>>>> virus.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> Christian Ferstl
>> >>>>> University of Vienna
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> Am 26.03.2020 15:23, schrieb Madhav Deshpande via INDOLOGY:
>> >>>>>> Draupadi says to Arjuna -
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> ??????? ?? ???????
>> >>>>>> ??????? ????? ?
>> >> ???????:
>> >>>>> ?
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> ?????????????????????
>> >>>>>> ????????? ??????? ??
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> O Arjuna, don?t shoot the fish [with your arrow, to prove
>> >> that
>> >>>>> you
>> >>>>>> are the best archer], since the ceremony of choosing the groom
>> >>>>> will
>> >>>>>> not be happening. After the Coronavirus goes away, please come
>> >>>>> back
>> >>>>>> quickly.
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> Madhav M. Deshpande
>> >>>>>> Professor Emeritus, Sanskrit and Linguistics
>> >>>>>> University of Michigan, Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA
>> >>>>>> Senior Fellow, Oxford Center for Hindu Studies
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> [Residence: Campbell, California, USA]
>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________
>> >>>>>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>> >>>>>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>> >>>>>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's
>> >>>>> managing
>> >>>>>> committee)
>> >>>>>> http://listinfo.indology.info [1] (where you can change your
>> >>>>> list options
>> >>>>>> or unsubscribe)
>> >>>> _______________________________________________
>> >>>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>> >>>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>> >>>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's
>> >> managing
>> >>>> committee)
>> >>>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list
>> >>>> options or unsubscribe)
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> Links:
>> >>> ------
>> >>> [1] http://listinfo.indology.info/
>> >>
>> >> _______________________________________________
>> >> INDOLOGY mailing list
>> >> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>> >> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
>> >> committee)
>> >> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list
>> >> options or unsubscribe)
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
>> committee)
>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
>> unsubscribe)
>>
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
> committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
> unsubscribe)
>


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From mmdesh at umich.edu  Tue Mar 31 12:36:44 2020
From: mmdesh at umich.edu (Madhav Deshpande)
Date: Tue, 31 Mar 20 05:36:44 -0700
Subject: [INDOLOGY] A distraction from the Coronavirus
Message-ID: <CAB3-dzeLfQbZ44JJQhh7_juvWFeQvUqrXOZDFb7yVaicVug-_Q@mail.gmail.com>

A distraction from the Coronavirus

??????????????????????????????? ????? ?? ?
????? ???????????? ??? ???? ??????? ??

Leaving the island of Lanka that was overwhelmed with the spread of the
Coronavirus, Sita went to Ayodhya along with Rama by air [in the Pushpaka
plane].

Madhav M. Deshpande
Professor Emeritus, Sanskrit and Linguistics
University of Michigan, Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA
Senior Fellow, Oxford Center for Hindu Studies

[Residence: Campbell, California, USA]


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From krishnaprasadah.g at gmail.com  Tue Mar 31 14:03:44 2020
From: krishnaprasadah.g at gmail.com (Krishnaprasad G)
Date: Tue, 31 Mar 20 19:33:44 +0530
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Best English translation and notes for Astadhyayi and Siddhanta Kaumudi
Message-ID: <CAODNnZiczbPAxETH+_sLxDhrib_UWNLhFZXyVBMjD86R7hxUNA@mail.gmail.com>

Dear all
I have never used any English books to learn Astadhyayi sutras. One of my
friends who is comfortable with English wants to know the best book. Google
search shows two to three editions. But to buy a hard copy I must be
specific to him. Please suggest.

Thank you.


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From Joseph.Walser at tufts.edu  Tue Mar 31 19:03:11 2020
From: Joseph.Walser at tufts.edu (Walser, Joseph)
Date: Tue, 31 Mar 20 19:03:11 +0000
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Kumarila Bhatta's Mimamsaslokavarttika?
Message-ID: <E5F571B94D36DB4AA048E0CF279CFC700142C29331@tabvmexdag1mb03.tufts.ad.tufts.edu>

Dear All,
I was hoping someone out there could point me to some online or PDF edition of the Mimamsaslokavarttika. I am aware of portions of it that are on GRETIL, but I actually need the whole thing. Like many of you out there, this virus has left me suddenly housebound without a chance to get the materials I needed to teach the remainder of the semester from home.
Be well,

-j



Joseph Walser

Associate Professor

Department of Religion

Tufts University


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From Joseph.Walser at tufts.edu  Tue Mar 31 19:20:55 2020
From: Joseph.Walser at tufts.edu (Walser, Joseph)
Date: Tue, 31 Mar 20 19:20:55 +0000
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Kumarila Bhatta's Mimamsaslokavarttika?
In-Reply-To: <E5F571B94D36DB4AA048E0CF279CFC700142C29331@tabvmexdag1mb03.tufts.ad.tufts.edu>
Message-ID: <E5F571B94D36DB4AA048E0CF279CFC700142C29351@tabvmexdag1mb03.tufts.ad.tufts.edu>

My sincere thanks to Andrew Ollett and Madhav Deshpande for their super speedy assistance on this one!
Thank you!
-j



Joseph Walser

Associate Professor

Department of Religion

Tufts University

________________________________
From: INDOLOGY [indology-bounces at list.indology.info] on behalf of Walser, Joseph via INDOLOGY [indology at list.indology.info]
Sent: Tuesday, March 31, 2020 3:03 PM
To: Indology
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Kumarila Bhatta's Mimamsaslokavarttika?

Dear All,
I was hoping someone out there could point me to some online or PDF edition of the Mimamsaslokavarttika. I am aware of portions of it that are on GRETIL, but I actually need the whole thing. Like many of you out there, this virus has left me suddenly housebound without a chance to get the materials I needed to teach the remainder of the semester from home.
Be well,

-j



Joseph Walser

Associate Professor

Department of Religion

Tufts University


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From jpo at austin.utexas.edu  Tue Mar 31 19:26:15 2020
From: jpo at austin.utexas.edu (Olivelle, J P)
Date: Tue, 31 Mar 20 19:26:15 +0000
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Kumarila Bhatta's Mimamsaslokavarttika?
In-Reply-To: <E5F571B94D36DB4AA048E0CF279CFC700142C29351@tabvmexdag1mb03.tufts.ad.tufts.edu>
Message-ID: <F6B3900A-6B96-4672-918C-93E311ADD91D@austin.utexas.edu>

Perhaps Madhav and Andrew could let us in on the secret!! Thanks.



On Mar 31, 2020, at 2:20 PM, Walser, Joseph via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info<mailto:indology at list.indology.info>> wrote:

My sincere thanks to Andrew Ollett and Madhav Deshpande for their super speedy assistance on this one!
Thank you!
-j



Joseph Walser

Associate Professor

Department of Religion

Tufts University

________________________________
From: INDOLOGY [indology-bounces at list.indology.info<mailto:indology-bounces at list.indology.info>] on behalf of Walser, Joseph via INDOLOGY [indology at list.indology.info<mailto:indology at list.indology.info>]
Sent: Tuesday, March 31, 2020 3:03 PM
To: Indology
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Kumarila Bhatta's Mimamsaslokavarttika?

Dear All,
I was hoping someone out there could point me to some online or PDF edition of the Mimamsaslokavarttika. I am aware of portions of it that are on GRETIL, but I actually need the whole thing. Like many of you out there, this virus has left me suddenly housebound without a chance to get the materials I needed to teach the remainder of the semester from home.
Be well,

-j



Joseph Walser

Associate Professor

Department of Religion

Tufts University

_______________________________________________
INDOLOGY mailing list
INDOLOGY at list.indology.info<mailto:INDOLOGY at list.indology.info>
indology-owner at list.indology.info<mailto:indology-owner at list.indology.info> (messages to the list's managing committee)
http://listinfo.indology.info<http://listinfo.indology.info/> (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe)
This message is from an external sender. Learn more about why this <<
matters at https://links.utexas.edu/rtyclf.                        <<



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From prajnapti at gmail.com  Tue Mar 31 19:28:05 2020
From: prajnapti at gmail.com (Dan Lusthaus)
Date: Tue, 31 Mar 20 15:28:05 -0400
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Kumarila Bhatta's Mimamsaslokavarttika?
In-Reply-To: <F6B3900A-6B96-4672-918C-93E311ADD91D@austin.utexas.edu>
Message-ID: <B55939C6-33A3-4BEC-81ED-5926F359428F@gmail.com>

Yes, please!

> On Mar 31, 2020, at 3:26 PM, Olivelle, J P via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info> wrote:
> 
> Perhaps Madhav and Andrew could let us in on the secret!! Thanks.
> 
> 
> 
>> On Mar 31, 2020, at 2:20 PM, Walser, Joseph via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info <mailto:indology at list.indology.info>> wrote:
>> 
>> My sincere thanks to Andrew Ollett and Madhav Deshpande for their super speedy assistance on this one! 
>> Thank you!
>> -j
>> 
>> 
>> Joseph Walser
>> 
>> Associate Professor
>> 
>> Department of Religion
>> 
>> Tufts University
>> 
>> From: INDOLOGY [indology-bounces at list.indology.info <mailto:indology-bounces at list.indology.info>] on behalf of Walser, Joseph via INDOLOGY [indology at list.indology.info <mailto:indology at list.indology.info>]
>> Sent: Tuesday, March 31, 2020 3:03 PM
>> To: Indology
>> Subject: [INDOLOGY] Kumarila Bhatta's Mimamsaslokavarttika?
>> 
>> Dear All,
>> I was hoping someone out there could point me to some online or PDF edition of the Mimamsaslokavarttika. I am aware of portions of it that are on GRETIL, but I actually need the whole thing. Like many of you out there, this virus has left me suddenly housebound without a chance to get the materials I needed to teach the remainder of the semester from home. 
>> Be well,
>> 
>> -j
>> 
>> 
>> Joseph Walser
>> 
>> Associate Professor
>> 
>> Department of Religion
>> 
>> Tufts University
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info <mailto:INDOLOGY at list.indology.info>
>> indology-owner at list.indology.info <mailto:indology-owner at list.indology.info> (messages to the list's managing committee)
>> http://listinfo.indology.info <http://listinfo.indology.info/> (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe)
>>>> This message is from an external sender. Learn more about why this <<
>>>> matters at https://links.utexas.edu/rtyclf <https://links.utexas.edu/rtyclf>.                        <<
> 
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe)



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From emstern1948 at gmail.com  Tue Mar 31 19:28:41 2020
From: emstern1948 at gmail.com (Elliot Stern)
Date: Tue, 31 Mar 20 15:28:41 -0400
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Kumarila Bhatta's Mimamsaslokavarttika?
In-Reply-To: <9A9B168E-5582-44F0-BC48-2FA9F0950944@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <A1C8DE25-D2A0-496E-BEA6-BB11B177025F@gmail.com>

The secret is to search for Parthasarathi Misra.

> On Mar 31, 2020, at 3:26 PM, Elliot Stern <emstern1948 at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> There are at least two editions at archive.org <http://archive.org/>. The second of these is not complete (some pages missed in the scan). I?m responding in case Andrew and Madhav did not report these.
> 
> Elliot
> 
> 
> https://archive.org/details/SlokavarttikaNyayaratnakara/mode/2up <https://archive.org/details/SlokavarttikaNyayaratnakara/mode/2up>
> 
> https://archive.org/details/Mimansa_Sloka_Vartikam_of_Kumarila_Bhattapada1898/mode/2up <https://archive.org/details/Mimansa_Sloka_Vartikam_of_Kumarila_Bhattapada1898/mode/2up>
> 
>> On Mar 31, 2020, at 3:03 PM, Walser, Joseph via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info> wrote:
>> 
>> Dear All,
>> I was hoping someone out there could point me to some online or PDF edition of the Mimamsaslokavarttika. I am aware of portions of it that are on GRETIL, but I actually need the whole thing. Like many of you out there, this virus has left me suddenly housebound without a chance to get the materials I needed to teach the remainder of the semester from home. 
>> Be well,
>> 
>> -j
>> 
>> 
>> Joseph Walser
>> 
>> Associate Professor
>> 
>> Department of Religion
>> 
>> Tufts University
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info <mailto:INDOLOGY at list.indology.info>
>> indology-owner at list.indology.info <mailto:indology-owner at list.indology.info> (messages to the list's managing committee)
>> http://listinfo.indology.info <http://listinfo.indology.info/> (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe)
> 
> Elliot M. Stern
> 552 South 48th Street
> Philadelphia, PA 19143-2029
> emstern1948 at gmail.com
> 267-240-8418
> 
> 
> 

Elliot M. Stern
552 South 48th Street
Philadelphia, PA 19143-2029
emstern1948 at gmail.com
267-240-8418





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From Joseph.Walser at tufts.edu  Tue Mar 31 19:56:28 2020
From: Joseph.Walser at tufts.edu (Walser, Joseph)
Date: Tue, 31 Mar 20 19:56:28 +0000
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Kumarila Bhatta's Mimamsaslokavarttika?
In-Reply-To: <A1C8DE25-D2A0-496E-BEA6-BB11B177025F@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <E5F571B94D36DB4AA048E0CF279CFC700142C2938A@tabvmexdag1mb03.tufts.ad.tufts.edu>

Ah, that works!
Thanks
-j



Joseph Walser

Associate Professor

Department of Religion

Tufts University

________________________________
From: INDOLOGY [indology-bounces at list.indology.info] on behalf of Elliot Stern via INDOLOGY [indology at list.indology.info]
Sent: Tuesday, March 31, 2020 3:28 PM
To: indology Indology listserve
Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] Kumarila Bhatta's Mimamsaslokavarttika?

The secret is to search for Parthasarathi Misra.

On Mar 31, 2020, at 3:26 PM, Elliot Stern <emstern1948 at gmail.com<mailto:emstern1948 at gmail.com>> wrote:

There are at least two editions at archive.org<http://archive.org/>. The second of these is not complete (some pages missed in the scan). I?m responding in case Andrew and Madhav did not report these.

Elliot


https://archive.org/details/SlokavarttikaNyayaratnakara/mode/2up

https://archive.org/details/Mimansa_Sloka_Vartikam_of_Kumarila_Bhattapada1898/mode/2up

On Mar 31, 2020, at 3:03 PM, Walser, Joseph via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info<mailto:indology at list.indology.info>> wrote:

Dear All,
I was hoping someone out there could point me to some online or PDF edition of the Mimamsaslokavarttika. I am aware of portions of it that are on GRETIL, but I actually need the whole thing. Like many of you out there, this virus has left me suddenly housebound without a chance to get the materials I needed to teach the remainder of the semester from home.
Be well,

-j



Joseph Walser

Associate Professor

Department of Religion

Tufts University

_______________________________________________
INDOLOGY mailing list
INDOLOGY at list.indology.info<mailto:INDOLOGY at list.indology.info>
indology-owner at list.indology.info<mailto:indology-owner at list.indology.info> (messages to the list's managing committee)
http://listinfo.indology.info<http://listinfo.indology.info/> (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe)

Elliot M. Stern
552 South 48th Street
Philadelphia, PA 19143-2029
emstern1948 at gmail.com<mailto:emstern1948 at gmail.com>
267-240-8418




Elliot M. Stern
552 South 48th Street
Philadelphia, PA 19143-2029
emstern1948 at gmail.com<mailto:emstern1948 at gmail.com>
267-240-8418





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From j.jurewicz at uw.edu.pl  Tue Mar 31 20:23:47 2020
From: j.jurewicz at uw.edu.pl (Joanna Jurewicz)
Date: Tue, 31 Mar 20 22:23:47 +0200
Subject: [INDOLOGY] A distraction from the Coronavirus
In-Reply-To: <CAB3-dzd18zrxQ4muTTy80nRiEcqjGzbJxxCwfGNL1ZqtXqWA0w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAAPrgbqQ7Pd+o=bUjwkjw53s9+N+VpAozLS_eGTxOyv=FNO6eg@mail.gmail.com>

I agree! Excellent!

---

Prof. dr hab. Joanna Jurewicz

Katedra Azji Po?udniowej /Chair of South Asia

Wydzia? Orientalistyczny / Faculty of Oriental Studies

Uniwersytet Warszawski /University of Warsaw

ul. Krakowskie Przedmie?cie 26/28

00-927 Warszawa , Poland

Department of Linguistics and Modern Languages

College of Human Sciences

UNISA

Pretoria, RSA

Member of Academia Europaea

https://uw.academia.edu/JoannaJurewicz


wt., 31 mar 2020 o 14:26 Madhav Deshpande via INDOLOGY <
indology at list.indology.info> napisa?(a):

> Excellent verses, Christian and D?niel.
>
> Madhav M. Deshpande
> Professor Emeritus, Sanskrit and Linguistics
> University of Michigan, Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA
> Senior Fellow, Oxford Center for Hindu Studies
>
> [Residence: Campbell, California, USA]
>
>
> On Tue, Mar 31, 2020 at 12:16 AM D?niel Balogh via INDOLOGY <
> indology at list.indology.info> wrote:
>
>> OK, can't resist getting on the bandwagon.
>> A little continuation to Christian's excellent earlier one about
>> Damayant?'s svaya?vara.
>>
>> ???? ?? ????? ???? ??????? ??????? ??????????
>>
>> ??????????????????? ????????? ???????????
>>
>> "God or man? What's the difference when their face is covered?"
>> "But we can tell right away by their unblinking gaze."
>>
>> Daniel
>>
>> On Tue, 31 Mar 2020 at 08:53, Christian Ferstl via INDOLOGY <
>> indology at list.indology.info> wrote:
>>
>>> Here's an other one with a face mask:
>>>
>>> ???????? ????????? ??????????????? ?
>>> ?????????????????? ???????????? ? ?? ?
>>>
>>> Out of fear of the Corona virus Sita, wearing a lotus leaf face mask,
>>> wanted a golden deer - not a Pangolin from China.
>>>
>>>
>>> Christian Ferstl
>>>
>>>
>>> Am 30.03.2020 22:58, schrieb Joanna Jurewicz:
>>> > Oh, I love this with mask, Christian. Frankly speaking, I enjoy all of
>>> > them.
>>> >
>>> > And I am amazed by the discussion these poems incited.
>>> >
>>> > Well, this is a perennial problem: Is poetry is free from rules or
>>> > not? Is there room for any innovation? For bold breaking rules?
>>> >
>>> > With best wishes to all,
>>> >
>>> > 3.062.14a     s?mo asm?bhya? dvip?de
>>> > 3.062.14b     c?tu?pade ca pa??ve
>>> > 3.062.14c     anam?v?? ??as karat
>>> >
>>> > I would not dare to compose the poems in Sanskrit. The only language I
>>> > can do that is Polish.
>>> >
>>> > Joanna
>>> >
>>> > ---
>>> >
>>> > Prof. dr hab. Joanna Jurewicz
>>> >
>>> > Katedra Azji Po?udniowej /Chair of South Asia
>>> >
>>> > Wydzia? Orientalistyczny / Faculty of Oriental Studies
>>> >
>>> > Uniwersytet Warszawski /University of Warsaw
>>> >
>>> > ul. Krakowskie Przedmie?cie 26/28
>>> >
>>> > 00-927 Warszawa , Poland
>>> >
>>> > Department of Linguistics and Modern Languages
>>> >
>>> > College of Human Sciences
>>> >
>>> > UNISA
>>> >
>>> > Pretoria, RSA
>>> >
>>> > Member of Academia Europaea
>>> >
>>> > https://uw.academia.edu/JoannaJurewicz
>>> >
>>> > pt., 27 mar 2020 o 08:09 Christian Ferstl via INDOLOGY
>>> > <indology at list.indology.info> napisa?(a):
>>> >
>>> >> Face masks would indeed be a problem at Damayant?'s svaya?vara:
>>> >>
>>> >> ????????? ???????
>>> >> ?????????? ???????? ?
>>> >> ? ?????? ????? ?????
>>> >> ????????????????? ?
>>> >>
>>> >> But the gods were the same to Damayant? anyway.
>>> >>
>>> >> Best,
>>> >> Christian Ferstl
>>> >> University of Vienna
>>> >>
>>> >> Am 26.03.2020 23:21, schrieb Valerie Roebuck:
>>> >>> Dear talented colleagues
>>> >>>
>>> >>> I am enjoying these topical verses so much. If only we had a
>>> >>> miniaturist who could portray these scenes, perhaps with the hero
>>> >> and
>>> >>> heroine wearing face masks!
>>> >>>
>>> >>> Valerie Roebuck
>>> >>> Manchester, UK
>>> >>>
>>> >>>> On 26 Mar 2020, at 19:59, Madhav Deshpande via INDOLOGY
>>> >>>> <indology at list.indology.info> wrote:
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> ???
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> Madhav M. Deshpande
>>> >>>> Professor Emeritus, Sanskrit and Linguistics
>>> >>>> University of Michigan, Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA
>>> >>>> Senior Fellow, Oxford Center for Hindu Studies
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> [Residence: Campbell, California, USA]
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> On Thu, Mar 26, 2020 at 12:30 PM Christian Ferstl
>>> >>>> <christian.ferstl at univie.ac.at> wrote:
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>>> And Arjuna says to Draupadi --
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>> ??? ? ???????? ?????? ??
>>> >>>>> ???????? ???? ?
>>> >>>>> ??????????????? ???
>>> >>>>> ???????? ???????? ?
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>> Today my hand must not touch your lotus-like hand.
>>> >>>>> That demon called Corona must be killed by the God of Love!
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>> It seems I'm kind of infected by Prof. Deshpande's karona-k?vya
>>> >>>>> virus.
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>> Christian Ferstl
>>> >>>>> University of Vienna
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>> Am 26.03.2020 15:23, schrieb Madhav Deshpande via INDOLOGY:
>>> >>>>>> Draupadi says to Arjuna -
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>> ??????? ?? ???????
>>> >>>>>> ??????? ????? ?
>>> >> ???????:
>>> >>>>> ?
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>> ?????????????????????
>>> >>>>>> ????????? ??????? ??
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>> O Arjuna, don?t shoot the fish [with your arrow, to prove
>>> >> that
>>> >>>>> you
>>> >>>>>> are the best archer], since the ceremony of choosing the groom
>>> >>>>> will
>>> >>>>>> not be happening. After the Coronavirus goes away, please come
>>> >>>>> back
>>> >>>>>> quickly.
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>> Madhav M. Deshpande
>>> >>>>>> Professor Emeritus, Sanskrit and Linguistics
>>> >>>>>> University of Michigan, Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA
>>> >>>>>> Senior Fellow, Oxford Center for Hindu Studies
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>> [Residence: Campbell, California, USA]
>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>> >>>>>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>>> >>>>>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>>> >>>>>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's
>>> >>>>> managing
>>> >>>>>> committee)
>>> >>>>>> http://listinfo.indology.info [1] (where you can change your
>>> >>>>> list options
>>> >>>>>> or unsubscribe)
>>> >>>> _______________________________________________
>>> >>>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>>> >>>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>>> >>>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's
>>> >> managing
>>> >>>> committee)
>>> >>>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list
>>> >>>> options or unsubscribe)
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>> Links:
>>> >>> ------
>>> >>> [1] http://listinfo.indology.info/
>>> >>
>>> >> _______________________________________________
>>> >> INDOLOGY mailing list
>>> >> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>>> >> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
>>> >> committee)
>>> >> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list
>>> >> options or unsubscribe)
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
>>> committee)
>>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options
>>> or unsubscribe)
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
>> committee)
>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
>> unsubscribe)
>>
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
> committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
> unsubscribe)
>


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From mkapstei at uchicago.edu  Tue Mar 31 20:32:35 2020
From: mkapstei at uchicago.edu (Matthew Kapstein)
Date: Tue, 31 Mar 20 20:32:35 +0000
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Kumarila Bhatta's Mimamsaslokavarttika?
In-Reply-To: <E5F571B94D36DB4AA048E0CF279CFC700142C2938A@tabvmexdag1mb03.tufts.ad.tufts.edu>
Message-ID: <BY5PR11MB4055CCBE9AEC593F7B00EE02A1C80@BY5PR11MB4055.namprd11.prod.outlook.com>

I believe that you may also find Sucaritamizra online.


Matthew Kapstein
Directeur d'?tudes, ?m?rite
Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes, Paris

Numata Visiting Professor of Buddhist Studies,
The University of Chicago
________________________________
From: INDOLOGY <indology-bounces at list.indology.info> on behalf of Walser, Joseph via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info>
Sent: Tuesday, March 31, 2020 2:56 PM
To: Elliot Stern <emstern1948 at gmail.com>; indology Indology listserve <indology at list.indology.info>
Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] Kumarila Bhatta's Mimamsaslokavarttika?

Ah, that works!
Thanks
-j



Joseph Walser

Associate Professor

Department of Religion

Tufts University

________________________________
From: INDOLOGY [indology-bounces at list.indology.info] on behalf of Elliot Stern via INDOLOGY [indology at list.indology.info]
Sent: Tuesday, March 31, 2020 3:28 PM
To: indology Indology listserve
Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] Kumarila Bhatta's Mimamsaslokavarttika?

The secret is to search for Parthasarathi Misra.

On Mar 31, 2020, at 3:26 PM, Elliot Stern <emstern1948 at gmail.com<mailto:emstern1948 at gmail.com>> wrote:

There are at least two editions at archive.org<http://archive.org/>. The second of these is not complete (some pages missed in the scan). I?m responding in case Andrew and Madhav did not report these.

Elliot


https://archive.org/details/SlokavarttikaNyayaratnakara/mode/2up

https://archive.org/details/Mimansa_Sloka_Vartikam_of_Kumarila_Bhattapada1898/mode/2up

On Mar 31, 2020, at 3:03 PM, Walser, Joseph via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info<mailto:indology at list.indology.info>> wrote:

Dear All,
I was hoping someone out there could point me to some online or PDF edition of the Mimamsaslokavarttika. I am aware of portions of it that are on GRETIL, but I actually need the whole thing. Like many of you out there, this virus has left me suddenly housebound without a chance to get the materials I needed to teach the remainder of the semester from home.
Be well,

-j



Joseph Walser

Associate Professor

Department of Religion

Tufts University

_______________________________________________
INDOLOGY mailing list
INDOLOGY at list.indology.info<mailto:INDOLOGY at list.indology.info>
indology-owner at list.indology.info<mailto:indology-owner at list.indology.info> (messages to the list's managing committee)
http://listinfo.indology.info<http://listinfo.indology.info/> (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe)

Elliot M. Stern
552 South 48th Street
Philadelphia, PA 19143-2029
emstern1948 at gmail.com<mailto:emstern1948 at gmail.com>
267-240-8418




Elliot M. Stern
552 South 48th Street
Philadelphia, PA 19143-2029
emstern1948 at gmail.com<mailto:emstern1948 at gmail.com>
267-240-8418





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From emstern1948 at gmail.com  Tue Mar 31 22:48:11 2020
From: emstern1948 at gmail.com (Elliot Stern)
Date: Tue, 31 Mar 20 18:48:11 -0400
Subject: [INDOLOGY] A distraction from the Coronavirus
In-Reply-To: <CAAPrgbqQ7Pd+o=bUjwkjw53s9+N+VpAozLS_eGTxOyv=FNO6eg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <3167A61E-BB47-4BBE-B807-14E9A4A81EBD@gmail.com>

??????????

> On Mar 31, 2020, at 4:23 PM, Joanna Jurewicz via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info> wrote:
> 
> I agree! Excellent!
> 
> ---
> Prof. dr hab. Joanna Jurewicz
> Katedra Azji Po?udniowej /Chair of South Asia
> Wydzia? Orientalistyczny / Faculty of Oriental Studies
> Uniwersytet Warszawski /University of Warsaw  
> ul. Krakowskie Przedmie?cie 26/28
> 00-927 Warszawa , Poland
> Department of Linguistics and Modern Languages
> College of Human Sciences
> UNISA
> Pretoria, RSA
> Member of Academia Europaea  
> https://uw.academia.edu/JoannaJurewicz <https://uw.academia.edu/JoannaJurewicz>
> 
> wt., 31 mar 2020 o 14:26 Madhav Deshpande via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info <mailto:indology at list.indology.info>> napisa?(a):
> Excellent verses, Christian and D?niel.
> 
> Madhav M. Deshpande
> Professor Emeritus, Sanskrit and Linguistics
> University of Michigan, Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA
> Senior Fellow, Oxford Center for Hindu Studies
> 
> [Residence: Campbell, California, USA]
> 
> 
> On Tue, Mar 31, 2020 at 12:16 AM D?niel Balogh via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info <mailto:indology at list.indology.info>> wrote:
> OK, can't resist getting on the bandwagon.
> A little continuation to Christian's excellent earlier one about Damayant?'s svaya?vara.
> 
> ???? ?? ????? ???? ??????? ??????? ??????????
> ??????????????????? ????????? ???????????
> 
> "God or man? What's the difference when their face is covered?"
> "But we can tell right away by their unblinking gaze."
> 
> Daniel
> 
> On Tue, 31 Mar 2020 at 08:53, Christian Ferstl via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info <mailto:indology at list.indology.info>> wrote:
> Here's an other one with a face mask:
> 
> ???????? ????????? ??????????????? ?
> ?????????????????? ???????????? ? ?? ?
> 
> Out of fear of the Corona virus Sita, wearing a lotus leaf face mask,
> wanted a golden deer - not a Pangolin from China.
> 
> 
> Christian Ferstl
> 
> 
> Am 30.03.2020 22:58, schrieb Joanna Jurewicz:
> > Oh, I love this with mask, Christian. Frankly speaking, I enjoy all of
> > them.
> > 
> > And I am amazed by the discussion these poems incited.
> > 
> > Well, this is a perennial problem: Is poetry is free from rules or
> > not? Is there room for any innovation? For bold breaking rules?
> > 
> > With best wishes to all,
> > 
> > 3.062.14a     s?mo asm?bhya? dvip?de
> > 3.062.14b     c?tu?pade ca pa??ve
> > 3.062.14c     anam?v?? ??as karat
> > 
> > I would not dare to compose the poems in Sanskrit. The only language I
> > can do that is Polish.
> > 
> > Joanna
> > 
> > ---
> > 
> > Prof. dr hab. Joanna Jurewicz
> > 
> > Katedra Azji Po?udniowej /Chair of South Asia
> > 
> > Wydzia? Orientalistyczny / Faculty of Oriental Studies
> > 
> > Uniwersytet Warszawski /University of Warsaw
> > 
> > ul. Krakowskie Przedmie?cie 26/28
> > 
> > 00-927 Warszawa , Poland
> > 
> > Department of Linguistics and Modern Languages
> > 
> > College of Human Sciences
> > 
> > UNISA
> > 
> > Pretoria, RSA
> > 
> > Member of Academia Europaea
> > 
> > https://uw.academia.edu/JoannaJurewicz <https://uw.academia.edu/JoannaJurewicz>
> > 
> > pt., 27 mar 2020 o 08:09 Christian Ferstl via INDOLOGY
> > <indology at list.indology.info <mailto:indology at list.indology.info>> napisa?(a):
> > 
> >> Face masks would indeed be a problem at Damayant?'s svaya?vara:
> >> 
> >> ????????? ???????
> >> ?????????? ???????? ?
> >> ? ?????? ????? ?????
> >> ????????????????? ?
> >> 
> >> But the gods were the same to Damayant? anyway.
> >> 
> >> Best,
> >> Christian Ferstl
> >> University of Vienna
> >> 
> >> Am 26.03.2020 23:21, schrieb Valerie Roebuck:
> >>> Dear talented colleagues
> >>> 
> >>> I am enjoying these topical verses so much. If only we had a
> >>> miniaturist who could portray these scenes, perhaps with the hero
> >> and
> >>> heroine wearing face masks!
> >>> 
> >>> Valerie Roebuck
> >>> Manchester, UK
> >>> 
> >>>> On 26 Mar 2020, at 19:59, Madhav Deshpande via INDOLOGY
> >>>> <indology at list.indology.info <mailto:indology at list.indology.info>> wrote:
> >>>> 
> >>>> ???
> >>>> 
> >>>> Madhav M. Deshpande
> >>>> Professor Emeritus, Sanskrit and Linguistics
> >>>> University of Michigan, Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA
> >>>> Senior Fellow, Oxford Center for Hindu Studies
> >>>> 
> >>>> [Residence: Campbell, California, USA]
> >>>> 
> >>>> On Thu, Mar 26, 2020 at 12:30 PM Christian Ferstl
> >>>> <christian.ferstl at univie.ac.at <mailto:christian.ferstl at univie.ac.at>> wrote:
> >>>> 
> >>>>> And Arjuna says to Draupadi --
> >>>>> 
> >>>>> ??? ? ???????? ?????? ??
> >>>>> ???????? ???? ?
> >>>>> ??????????????? ???
> >>>>> ???????? ???????? ?
> >>>>> 
> >>>>> Today my hand must not touch your lotus-like hand.
> >>>>> That demon called Corona must be killed by the God of Love!
> >>>>> 
> >>>>> It seems I'm kind of infected by Prof. Deshpande's karona-k?vya
> >>>>> virus.
> >>>>> 
> >>>>> Christian Ferstl
> >>>>> University of Vienna
> >>>>> 
> >>>>> Am 26.03.2020 15:23, schrieb Madhav Deshpande via INDOLOGY:
> >>>>>> Draupadi says to Arjuna -
> >>>>>> 
> >>>>>> ??????? ?? ???????
> >>>>>> ??????? ????? ?
> >> ???????:
> >>>>> ?
> >>>>>> 
> >>>>>> ?????????????????????
> >>>>>> ????????? ??????? ??
> >>>>>> 
> >>>>>> O Arjuna, don?t shoot the fish [with your arrow, to prove
> >> that
> >>>>> you
> >>>>>> are the best archer], since the ceremony of choosing the groom
> >>>>> will
> >>>>>> not be happening. After the Coronavirus goes away, please come
> >>>>> back
> >>>>>> quickly.
> >>>>>> 
> >>>>>> Madhav M. Deshpande
> >>>>>> Professor Emeritus, Sanskrit and Linguistics
> >>>>>> University of Michigan, Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA
> >>>>>> Senior Fellow, Oxford Center for Hindu Studies
> >>>>>> 
> >>>>>> [Residence: Campbell, California, USA]
> >>>>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>>>> INDOLOGY mailing list
> >>>>>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info <mailto:INDOLOGY at list.indology.info>
> >>>>>> indology-owner at list.indology.info <mailto:indology-owner at list.indology.info> (messages to the list's
> >>>>> managing
> >>>>>> committee)
> >>>>>> http://listinfo.indology.info <http://listinfo.indology.info/> [1] (where you can change your
> >>>>> list options
> >>>>>> or unsubscribe)
> >>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>> INDOLOGY mailing list
> >>>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info <mailto:INDOLOGY at list.indology.info>
> >>>> indology-owner at list.indology.info <mailto:indology-owner at list.indology.info> (messages to the list's
> >> managing
> >>>> committee)
> >>>> http://listinfo.indology.info <http://listinfo.indology.info/> (where you can change your list
> >>>> options or unsubscribe)
> >>> 
> >>> 
> >>> 
> >>> Links:
> >>> ------
> >>> [1] http://listinfo.indology.info/ <http://listinfo.indology.info/>
> >> 
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> INDOLOGY mailing list
> >> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info <mailto:INDOLOGY at list.indology.info>
> >> indology-owner at list.indology.info <mailto:indology-owner at list.indology.info> (messages to the list's managing
> >> committee)
> >> http://listinfo.indology.info <http://listinfo.indology.info/> (where you can change your list
> >> options or unsubscribe)
> 
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info <mailto:INDOLOGY at list.indology.info>
> indology-owner at list.indology.info <mailto:indology-owner at list.indology.info> (messages to the list's managing committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info <http://listinfo.indology.info/> (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe)
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
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Elliot M. Stern
552 South 48th Street
Philadelphia, PA 19143-2029
emstern1948 at gmail.com
267-240-8418





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