From mkapstei at uchicago.edu Tue Oct 1 06:44:18 2019 From: mkapstei at uchicago.edu (Matthew Kapstein) Date: Tue, 01 Oct 19 06:44:18 +0000 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Highlights from the Sanskrit corpora In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I would also add the Kath?sarits?gara - a landmark in the world history of stories. Matthew Get Outlook for iOS ________________________________ From: INDOLOGY on behalf of Dominik Wujastyk via INDOLOGY Sent: Tuesday, October 1, 2019 1:13:57 AM To: Martin Gluckman Cc: Indology List Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] Highlights from the Sanskrit corpora On Sun, 29 Sep 2019 at 07:40, Martin Gluckman via INDOLOGY > wrote: Two further submissions received to add to the list (thank you to all who have responded): 1.Mahabharata for its general and omnipresent influence on all kinds of cultural and literary creativity. Note that the Mah?bh?rata text of the critical Pune edition is (C) BORI and is not meant to be distributed or hosted on other websites. It is made exclusively available from John Smith's Bombay website. As the accompanying documentation says, The electronic text of the Mahabharata is Copyright (C) The Bhandarkar Oriental Research Institute (BORI), Pune. This authorised and regularly updated text is available only via the web page http://bombay.indology.info/mahabharata/statement.html. Please do not provide copies of the text to others. In other words, help yourself, but only from that Bombay website. This is why the Puna Mbh has never been offered through SARIT. The text at SARIT is the 1906-1910 edition from Nirnayasagara Press, Bombay, "A New Edition Mainly Based on the South Indian Texts, with Footnotes and Readings." I'm fully aware that the Pune Mbh has long ago escaped into the wild and is offered everywhere. I think that's a wonderful thing for scholarship (though bad for version control). But it does not reflect the wishes of BORI. I'm just sayin' Best, Dominik -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From krishnaprasadah.g at gmail.com Tue Oct 1 07:01:49 2019 From: krishnaprasadah.g at gmail.com (Krishnaprasad G) Date: Tue, 01 Oct 19 12:31:49 +0530 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Highlights from the Sanskrit corpora In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I am happy Camillo mentioned Kalidasa. I would like to add 3 books. Raghuvamsa of Kalidasa A book which which really tells about Indian Culture. Champu Ramayana of Bhoja. Kadambari of Bana Bhatta. These are the 3 books which even if the same authors, try to write a similar work would fail. On Tue, Oct 1, 2019, 12:15 PM Matthew Kapstein via INDOLOGY < indology at list.indology.info> wrote: > I would also add the Kath?sarits?gara - a landmark in the world history of > stories. > > Matthew > > Get Outlook for iOS > ------------------------------ > *From:* INDOLOGY on behalf of > Dominik Wujastyk via INDOLOGY > *Sent:* Tuesday, October 1, 2019 1:13:57 AM > *To:* Martin Gluckman > *Cc:* Indology List > *Subject:* Re: [INDOLOGY] Highlights from the Sanskrit corpora > > On Sun, 29 Sep 2019 at 07:40, Martin Gluckman via INDOLOGY < > indology at list.indology.info> wrote: > >> Two further submissions received to add to the list (thank you to all who >> have responded): >> >> 1.Mahabharata for its general and omnipresent influence on all kinds of >> cultural and literary creativity. >> > > Note that the Mah?bh?rata text of the critical Pune edition is (C) BORI > and is not meant to be distributed or hosted on other websites. It is made > exclusively available from John Smith's Bombay website > . As the accompanying > documentation > says, > > The electronic text of the Mahabharata is Copyright (C) The Bhandarkar > Oriental Research Institute (BORI), Pune. This authorised and regularly > updated text is available only via the web pagehttp://bombay.indology.info/mahabharata/statement.html. Please do not provide > copies of the text to others. > > In other words, help yourself, but only from that Bombay website. > > This is why the Puna Mbh has never been offered through SARIT. The text at SARIT is the 1906-1910 edition from Nirnayasagara Press, > Bombay, "A New Edition Mainly Based on the South Indian Texts, with Footnotes and Readings." > > I'm fully aware that the Pune Mbh has long ago escaped into the wild and is offered everywhere. I think that's a wonderful thing for > scholarship (though bad for version control). But it does not reflect the wishes of BORI. I'm just sayin' > > Best, > > Dominik > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing > committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or > unsubscribe) > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From kauzeya at gmail.com Tue Oct 1 07:04:13 2019 From: kauzeya at gmail.com (Jonathan Silk) Date: Tue, 01 Oct 19 09:04:13 +0200 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Highlights from the Sanskrit corpora In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Dear Dominik, This raises a fundamental question: I have been under the impression that while one can claim copyright (what you note in your mail with (C) ) over work like critical notes, annotations, translation etc, one *cannot* claim copyright over editions of classical texts. (I'm not debating whether this is reasonable or not and the effort and expertise it takes to create an edition, just reporting my understanding of the law). Therefore, according to my understanding, if I take your edition of a text, and type it up *without any notes etc* i can publish it. I suppose --maybe I am just ignorant here--that this has never been litigated because there is no money in it for anyone. After all, who would go to court to prevent me from copying a critical edition of the ?kprati??khya? I realize I haven't framed this as a question, but what is your take? Jonathan On Tue, Oct 1, 2019 at 1:14 AM Dominik Wujastyk via INDOLOGY < indology at list.indology.info> wrote: > On Sun, 29 Sep 2019 at 07:40, Martin Gluckman via INDOLOGY < > indology at list.indology.info> wrote: > >> Two further submissions received to add to the list (thank you to all who >> have responded): >> >> 1.Mahabharata for its general and omnipresent influence on all kinds of >> cultural and literary creativity. >> > > Note that the Mah?bh?rata text of the critical Pune edition is (C) BORI > and is not meant to be distributed or hosted on other websites. It is made > exclusively available from John Smith's Bombay website > . As the accompanying > documentation > says, > > The electronic text of the Mahabharata is Copyright (C) The Bhandarkar > Oriental Research Institute (BORI), Pune. This authorised and regularly > updated text is available only via the web pagehttp://bombay.indology.info/mahabharata/statement.html. Please do not provide > copies of the text to others. > > In other words, help yourself, but only from that Bombay website. > > This is why the Puna Mbh has never been offered through SARIT. The text at SARIT is the 1906-1910 edition from Nirnayasagara Press, > Bombay, "A New Edition Mainly Based on the South Indian Texts, with Footnotes and Readings." > > I'm fully aware that the Pune Mbh has long ago escaped into the wild and is offered everywhere. I think that's a wonderful thing for > scholarship (though bad for version control). But it does not reflect the wishes of BORI. I'm just sayin' > > Best, > > Dominik > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing > committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or > unsubscribe) > -- J. Silk Leiden University Leiden University Institute for Area Studies, LIAS Matthias de Vrieshof 3, Room 0.05b 2311 BZ Leiden The Netherlands copies of my publications may be found at https://leidenuniv.academia.edu/JASilk -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From wujastyk at gmail.com Tue Oct 1 08:14:43 2019 From: wujastyk at gmail.com (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Tue, 01 Oct 19 02:14:43 -0600 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Highlights from the Sanskrit corpora In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Copyright is a slippery beast. But the law is not *that* difficult in broad outline. What you say, Jonathan, about not being able to claim copyright over editions, is definitely wrong. One can. Authors, editors, and publishers do so all the time. It's routinely printed on the back of the title page. There *is* a precedent of some sort specifically in German law that copyright on an edition expires after 25 years, and not the usual 60 or 70 years after the death of the author. Some other countries are looking at this German law and behaving accordingly. See Margoni, Thomas and Perry, Mark, Scientific and Critical Editions of Public Domain Works: An Example of European Copyright Law (Dis)Harmonization (November 18, 2011). Canadian Intellectual Property Review, Vol. 27, p. 157. Available at SSRN: https://ssrn.com/abstract=1961535 (PDF) But copyright inheres in all sorts of things. So, a book contains text written by an author. The author has copyright of that (unless they sign it away). But the book also has a certain design, created by a book designer. That may be subject to copyright, if it is particularly original. Someone created the typeface and owns the copyright of that. So you could get the author's permission to photocopy the book and the designer and typeface creators could still sue you for breach of their copyright. It's all very vexing. In the case of the Mbh, I think there's a arguable case that BORI owns copyright of the text, but Prof. Tokunaga co-owns copyright of the electronic transcription. Because he made something new and unique, especially by dividing compounds and so forth, thereby creatively adding original content. The Wikipedia page on Copyright and on infringement are good, incidentally. As the latter page says, Shifting public expectations, advances in digital technology, and the increasing reach of the Internet have led to such widespread, anonymous infringement that copyright-dependent industries now focus less on pursuing individuals who seek and share copyright-protected content online, and more on expanding copyright law to recognize and penalize, as indirect infringers, the service providers and software distributors who are said to facilitate and encourage individual acts of infringement by others. So while it's unlikely that you personally would be pursued for putting the BORI Mbh on your website, the website maintainer or even hosting business might be pursued. Best, Dominik -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From kauzeya at gmail.com Tue Oct 1 08:26:14 2019 From: kauzeya at gmail.com (Jonathan Silk) Date: Tue, 01 Oct 19 10:26:14 +0200 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Highlights from the Sanskrit corpora In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I'm not able to engage in this in an informed manner (but did that stop me before? ;), but, according to what I understand of Dominik's comment, the editors of the Mbh could NOT claim copyright over the Skt text, *unless* for instance they printed a conjecture in the text. If they simply (!!) transcribe MSS, and delete some, over what could they claim copyright? Because when I type out a text, I do not copy their font, formatting or anything else, and I already mentioned that we were not talking about the forematter, any editorial comments, notes etc. From a very technical point of view, the work of the editors consisted of selecting preexisting text, choosing what to print, and printing that. (Again, please, I'm not saying that is what we really do, but I'm saying from the point of view of law about creativity this seems to me the way it would be seen). Anyway, thanks in part to the inspiration of Dominik I have been making efforts as far as i am able to present all my own work in Open Access form (but I have tenure and don't have to worry about being judged, I know this). One example: the edition of the *Pra?nottararatnam?lik?* I recently published in the IIJ is Open Access (but actually I try to post all my own stuff online anyway... And I do not plan to publish any scholarly book in the future that is not Open Access.) Jonathan On Tue, Oct 1, 2019 at 10:14 AM Dominik Wujastyk wrote: > Copyright is a slippery beast. But the law is not *that* difficult in > broad outline. > > What you say, Jonathan, about not being able to claim copyright over > editions, is definitely wrong. One can. Authors, editors, and publishers > do so all the time. It's routinely printed on the back of the title page. > > There *is* a precedent of some sort specifically in German law that > copyright on an edition expires after 25 years, and not the usual 60 or 70 > years after the death of the author. Some other countries are looking at > this German law and behaving accordingly. See > Margoni, Thomas and Perry, Mark, Scientific and Critical Editions of > Public Domain Works: An Example of European Copyright Law > (Dis)Harmonization (November 18, 2011). Canadian Intellectual Property > Review, Vol. 27, p. 157. Available at SSRN: > https://ssrn.com/abstract=1961535 (PDF) > > > But copyright inheres in all sorts of things. So, a book contains text > written by an author. The author has copyright of that (unless they sign > it away). But the book also has a certain design, created by a book > designer. That may be subject to copyright, if it is particularly > original. Someone created the typeface and owns the copyright of that. So > you could get the author's permission to photocopy the book and the > designer and typeface creators could still sue you for breach of their > copyright. It's all very vexing. > > In the case of the Mbh, I think there's a arguable case that BORI owns > copyright of the text, but Prof. Tokunaga co-owns copyright of the > electronic transcription. Because he made something new and unique, > especially by dividing compounds and so forth, thereby creatively adding > original content. > > The Wikipedia page on Copyright and > on infringement > are good, incidentally. As the latter page says, > > Shifting public expectations, advances in digital technology, and the > increasing reach of the Internet have led to such widespread, anonymous > infringement that copyright-dependent industries now focus less on pursuing > individuals who seek and share copyright-protected content online, and more > on expanding copyright law to recognize and penalize, as indirect > infringers, the service providers and software distributors who are said to > facilitate and encourage individual acts of infringement by others. > > So while it's unlikely that you personally would be pursued for putting > the BORI Mbh on your website, the website maintainer or even hosting > business might be pursued. > > Best, > Dominik > -- J. Silk Leiden University Leiden University Institute for Area Studies, LIAS Matthias de Vrieshof 3, Room 0.05b 2311 BZ Leiden The Netherlands copies of my publications may be found at https://leidenuniv.academia.edu/JASilk -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dominik.haas at univie.ac.at Tue Oct 1 08:45:42 2019 From: dominik.haas at univie.ac.at (Dominik Haas) Date: Tue, 01 Oct 19 10:45:42 +0200 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Highlights from the Sanskrit corpora In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <2c23fad2-119a-7b68-cd4c-6ab6097b1c11@univie.ac.at> Dear Jonathan and Dominik, I just had the very same thoughts. I'm not an expert of law either, but technically speaking, the BORI Mah?bh?rata is not simply an edition, but a new text created by its editors between 1919 and 1966. The editors are, in this case, actually authors, who obviously transferred their copyright to the still existing BORI. So unless an ancient and complete manuscript appears which contains the very same text as the BORI Mah?bh?rata (very unlikely, I would say), the BORI holds the copyright of its text. According to German law (mentioned by Dominik), however, it does not ? 25 years have long gone past since the publication of the original edition. The co-owned copyright of Prof. Tokunaga (1994), too, would expire this year ? in Germany. Of course, authors also have the copyright to transcriptions of their text ? just imagine someone would transcribe a talk you give and then publish it as their own text. I would argue that creating an electronic transcription of a (copyrighted) Devan?gar? text isn't much different. Best regards, Dominik A. Haas __________________ *Dominik Haas, BA MA* PhD student, University of Vienna dominik.haas at univie.ac.at ORCID: 0000-0002-8505-6112 univie.academia.edu/DominikHaas Am 01.10.2019 um 10:14 schrieb Dominik Wujastyk via INDOLOGY: > Copyright is a slippery beast.? But the law is not *that* difficult in > broad outline. > > What you say, Jonathan, about not being able to claim copyright over > editions, is definitely wrong. One can.? Authors, editors, and > publishers do so all the time.? It's routinely printed on the back of > the title page. > > There *is* a precedent of some sort specifically in German law that > copyright on an edition expires after 25 years, and not the usual 60 > or 70 years after the death of the author.? Some other countries are > looking at this German law and behaving accordingly.? See > Margoni, Thomas and Perry, Mark, Scientific and Critical Editions of > Public Domain Works: An Example of European Copyright Law > (Dis)Harmonization (November 18, 2011). Canadian Intellectual Property > Review, Vol. 27, p. 157. Available at SSRN: > https://ssrn.com/abstract=1961535 (PDF) > > > But copyright inheres in all sorts of things.? So, a book contains > text written by an author.? The author has copyright of that (unless > they sign it away).? But the book also has a certain design, created > by a book designer.? That may be subject to copyright, if it is > particularly original.? Someone created the typeface and owns the > copyright of that.? So you could get the author's permission to > photocopy the book and the designer and typeface creators could still > sue you for breach of their copyright.? It's all very vexing. > > In the case of the Mbh, I think there's a arguable case that BORI owns > copyright of the text, but Prof. Tokunaga co-owns copyright of the > electronic transcription.? Because he made something new and unique, > especially by dividing compounds and so forth, thereby creatively > adding original content. > > The Wikipedia page on Copyright > and on infringement > are good, > incidentally.? As the latter page says, > > Shifting public expectations, advances in digital technology, and the > increasing reach of the Internet have led to such widespread, > anonymous infringement that copyright-dependent industries now focus > less on pursuing individuals who seek and share copyright-protected > content online, and more on expanding copyright law to recognize and > penalize, as indirect infringers, the service providers and software > distributors who are said to facilitate and encourage individual acts > of infringement by others. > > So while it's unlikely that you personally would be pursued for > putting the BORI Mbh on your website, the website maintainer or even > hosting business might be pursued. > > Best, > Dominik > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From r.mahoney at indica-et-buddhica.org Tue Oct 1 08:46:12 2019 From: r.mahoney at indica-et-buddhica.org (Richard Mahoney | Indica et Buddhica) Date: Tue, 01 Oct 19 21:46:12 +1300 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Highlights from the Sanskrit corpora In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <0bef752775ea4b47094908f706d40595e4020c07.camel@indica-et-buddhica.org> Dear Jonathan, A curious thing. I've just pulled out two editions: the Greek NT and the Vulgate, perhaps an extreme example of this type of thing. I'm *attaching* scans. The British NT doesn't claim copyright in the usual place, the German edition of the Vulgate does. Best, Richard -----Original Message----- From: Jonathan Silk via INDOLOGY Reply-To: Jonathan Silk To: Dominik Wujastyk Cc: Indology List , Martin Gluckman < m.gluckman at alumni.anu.edu.au> Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] Highlights from the Sanskrit corpora Date: Tue, 1 Oct 2019 10:26:14 +0200 I'm not able to engage in this in an informed manner (but did that stop me before? ;), but, according to what I understand of Dominik's comment, the editors of the Mbh could NOT claim copyright over the Skt text, *unless* for instance they printed a conjecture in the text. If they simply (!!) transcribe MSS, and delete some, over what could they claim copyright? Because when I type out a text, I do not copy their font, formatting or anything else, and I already mentioned that we were not talking about the forematter, any editorial comments, notes etc. From a very technical point of view, the work of the editors consisted of selecting preexisting text, choosing what to print, and printing that. (Again, please, I'm not saying that is what we really do, but I'm saying from the point of view of law about creativity this seems to me the way it would be seen). Anyway, thanks in part to the inspiration of Dominik I have been making efforts as far as i am able to present all my own work in Open Access form (but I have tenure and don't have to worry about being judged, I know this). One example: the edition of the Pra?nottararatnam?lik? I recently published in the IIJ is Open Access (but actually I try to post all my own stuff online anyway... And I do not plan to publish any scholarly book in the future that is not Open Access.) Jonathan On Tue, Oct 1, 2019 at 10:14 AM Dominik Wujastyk wrote: > > > > Copyright is a slippery beast. But the law is not *that* difficult > in broad outline. > > What you say, Jonathan, about not being able to claim copyright over > editions, is definitely wrong. One can. Authors, editors, and > publishers do so all the time. It's routinely printed on the back > of the title page. > > There *is* a precedent of some sort specifically in German law that > copyright on an edition expires after 25 years, and not the usual 60 > or 70 years after the death of the author. Some other countries are > looking at this German law and behaving accordingly. See > Margoni, Thomas and Perry, Mark, Scientific and Critical Editions of > Public Domain Works: An Example of European Copyright Law > (Dis)Harmonization (November 18, 2011). Canadian Intellectual > Property Review, Vol. 27, p. 157. Available at SSRN: > https://ssrn.com/abstract=1961535 (PDF) > > But copyright inheres in all sorts of things. So, a book contains > text written by an author. The author has copyright of that (unless > they sign it away). But the book also has a certain design, created > by a book designer. That may be subject to copyright, if it is > particularly original. Someone created the typeface and owns the > copyright of that. So you could get the author's permission to > photocopy the book and the designer and typeface creators could > still sue you for breach of their copyright. It's all very vexing. > In the case of the Mbh, I think there's a arguable case that BORI > owns copyright of the text, but Prof. Tokunaga co-owns copyright of > the electronic transcription. Because he made something new and > unique, especially by dividing compounds and so forth, thereby > creatively adding original content. > The Wikipedia page on Copyright and on infringement are good, > incidentally. As the latter page says, > > Shifting public expectations, advances in digital technology, and > the > increasing reach of the Internet have led to such widespread, > anonymous > infringement that copyright-dependent industries now focus less on > pursuing individuals who seek and share copyright-protected content > online, and more on expanding copyright law to recognize and > penalize, > as indirect infringers, the service providers and software > distributors > who are said to facilitate and encourage individual acts of > infringement > by others. > > So while it's unlikely that you personally would be pursued for > putting the BORI Mbh on your website, the website maintainer or even > hosting business might be pursued. > > Best, > Dominik _______________________________________________INDOLOGY mailing listINDOLOGY at list.indology.info indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee)http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) -- Richard Mahoney | Indica et Buddhica Littledene Bay Road Oxford NZ T: +6433121699 M: +64210640216 r.mahoney at indica-et-buddhica.org https://indica-et-buddhica.org/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: nt.pdf Type: application/pdf Size: 198904 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: vulg.pdf Type: application/pdf Size: 262696 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From BrodbeckSP at cardiff.ac.uk Tue Oct 1 09:55:14 2019 From: BrodbeckSP at cardiff.ac.uk (Simon Brodbeck) Date: Tue, 01 Oct 19 09:55:14 +0000 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Highlights from the Sanskrit corpora In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Dear colleagues, I wonder if the matter might be complicated, at least in principle, by the idea that the Mahabharata as critically reconstituted by the editors is an approximation of a text that was produced many centuries earlier? Reading Sukthankar's "Prolegomena" one has the impression that his claim was not to have created a new text, but to have recreated an old one. Although there may be different views on whether or not that claim was justified, it might seem somewhat contradictory for Sukthankar or BORI to claim copyright on the published reconstituted text. And if so, wouldn't the situation be similar for any number of explicitly reconstructive editions? Yours, Simon Brodbeck Cardiff University ________________________________ From: INDOLOGY on behalf of Dominik Haas via INDOLOGY Sent: 01 October 2019 09:45 To: indology at list.indology.info Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] Highlights from the Sanskrit corpora Dear Jonathan and Dominik, I just had the very same thoughts. I'm not an expert of law either, but technically speaking, the BORI Mah?bh?rata is not simply an edition, but a new text created by its editors between 1919 and 1966. The editors are, in this case, actually authors, who obviously transferred their copyright to the still existing BORI. So unless an ancient and complete manuscript appears which contains the very same text as the BORI Mah?bh?rata (very unlikely, I would say), the BORI holds the copyright of its text. According to German law (mentioned by Dominik), however, it does not ? 25 years have long gone past since the publication of the original edition. The co-owned copyright of Prof. Tokunaga (1994), too, would expire this year ? in Germany. Of course, authors also have the copyright to transcriptions of their text ? just imagine someone would transcribe a talk you give and then publish it as their own text. I would argue that creating an electronic transcription of a (copyrighted) Devan?gar? text isn't much different. Best regards, Dominik A. Haas -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dominik.haas at univie.ac.at Tue Oct 1 12:42:53 2019 From: dominik.haas at univie.ac.at (Dominik Haas) Date: Tue, 01 Oct 19 14:42:53 +0200 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Copyright and authorship of critical editions In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Dear colleagues, yes, it does become more complicated, and this is the reason why Germany and several other countries have special copyright laws for scientific text editions. In most countries, copyright does not depend on a specific formula or even the presence of a ? symbol but, first of all, on the author. The rights of an author expire after a certain period (60, 70, 75 or more years) after the death of the (last) author or, in the case of scientific editions in several European countries, after 25 or 30 years after the first publication. So BORI could, in any case, only claim the copyright for a certain time (I don't know when the last author of the edition died) and in certain countries. The same applies to the NT editions mentioned by Richard Mahoney, which both mention their "authors" (who of course are, philologically speaking, editors). So legally, it all depends on authorship. For all I know, the editors of critical editions are authors, even though the base texts are public domain: even if you think of critical editions only as compilations, they can, in my view, be copyrighted, because they involve the creative selection and rearrangement of preexisting material. Of course, they are not supposed to be "new," but how could you prove (in court) that they are not, as long as the archetype is not found? I would argue that this applies regardless of what Sukthankar or any other authority says. In the eyes of the world, they are new texts, created by peope who are legally authors. At least in Austria, you cannot even get rid of authorship that easily ? it is attributed to you if it is clear that you are the author, whether you claim it or not. And with this comes and goes the copyright. Best regards, Dominik A. Haas __________________ *Dominik A. Haas, BA MA* PhD student, University of Vienna dominik.haas at univie.ac.at ORCID: 0000-0002-8505-6112 univie.academia.edu/DominikHaas Am 01.10.2019 um 11:55 schrieb Simon Brodbeck via INDOLOGY: > Dear colleagues, > > I wonder if the matter might be complicated, at least in principle, by > the idea that the Mahabharata as critically reconstituted by the > editors is an approximation of a text that was produced many centuries > earlier? Reading Sukthankar's "Prolegomena" one has the impression > that his claim was not to have created a new text, but to have > recreated an old one. Although there may be different views on whether > or not that claim was justified, it might seem somewhat contradictory > for Sukthankar or BORI to claim copyright on the published > reconstituted text. And if so, wouldn't the situation be similar for > any number of explicitly reconstructive editions? > > Yours, > Simon Brodbeck > Cardiff University > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > *From:* INDOLOGY on behalf of > Dominik Haas via INDOLOGY > *Sent:* 01 October 2019 09:45 > *To:* indology at list.indology.info > *Subject:* Re: [INDOLOGY] Highlights from the Sanskrit corpora > > Dear Jonathan and Dominik, > > I just had the very same thoughts. I'm not an expert of law either, > but technically speaking, the BORI Mah?bh?rata is not simply an > edition, but a new text created by its editors between 1919 and 1966. > The editors are, in this case, actually authors, who obviously > transferred their copyright to the still existing BORI. So unless an > ancient and complete manuscript appears which contains the very same > text as the BORI Mah?bh?rata (very unlikely, I would say), the BORI > holds the copyright of its text. According to German law (mentioned by > Dominik), however, it does not ? 25 years have long gone past since > the publication of the original edition. The co-owned copyright of > Prof. Tokunaga (1994), too, would expire this year ? in Germany. > > Of course, authors also have the copyright to transcriptions of their > text ? just imagine someone would transcribe a talk you give and then > publish it as their own text. I would argue that creating an > electronic transcription of a (copyrighted) Devan?gar? text isn't much > different. > > Best regards, > > Dominik A. Haas > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From hspier.muktabodha at gmail.com Tue Oct 1 13:21:37 2019 From: hspier.muktabodha at gmail.com (Harry Spier) Date: Tue, 01 Oct 19 09:21:37 -0400 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Highlights from the Sanskrit corpora In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I vaguely recall an Indian copyright lawyer telling me years ago that for works published in India before 1957 copyright expires 50 years after date of publication. But for works published after 1957 copyright expires 50 or 75 years after the authors death. (I don't recall if he said 50 or 75 years). And for government published works its 50 or 75 years after publication. Can anyone confirm or correct this? Thanks, Harry Spier On Tue, Oct 1, 2019 at 5:49 AM Dominik Wujastyk via INDOLOGY < indology at list.indology.info> wrote: > Copyright is a slippery beast. But the law is not *that* difficult in > broad outline. > > What you say, Jonathan, about not being able to claim copyright over > editions, is definitely wrong. One can. Authors, editors, and publishers > do so all the time. It's routinely printed on the back of the title page. > > There *is* a precedent of some sort specifically in German law that > copyright on an edition expires after 25 years, and not the usual 60 or 70 > years after the death of the author. Some other countries are looking at > this German law and behaving accordingly. See > Margoni, Thomas and Perry, Mark, Scientific and Critical Editions of > Public Domain Works: An Example of European Copyright Law > (Dis)Harmonization (November 18, 2011). Canadian Intellectual Property > Review, Vol. 27, p. 157. Available at SSRN: > https://ssrn.com/abstract=1961535 (PDF) > > > But copyright inheres in all sorts of things. So, a book contains text > written by an author. The author has copyright of that (unless they sign > it away). But the book also has a certain design, created by a book > designer. That may be subject to copyright, if it is particularly > original. Someone created the typeface and owns the copyright of that. So > you could get the author's permission to photocopy the book and the > designer and typeface creators could still sue you for breach of their > copyright. It's all very vexing. > > In the case of the Mbh, I think there's a arguable case that BORI owns > copyright of the text, but Prof. Tokunaga co-owns copyright of the > electronic transcription. Because he made something new and unique, > especially by dividing compounds and so forth, thereby creatively adding > original content. > > The Wikipedia page on Copyright and > on infringement > are good, incidentally. As the latter page says, > > Shifting public expectations, advances in digital technology, and the > increasing reach of the Internet have led to such widespread, anonymous > infringement that copyright-dependent industries now focus less on pursuing > individuals who seek and share copyright-protected content online, and more > on expanding copyright law to recognize and penalize, as indirect > infringers, the service providers and software distributors who are said to > facilitate and encourage individual acts of infringement by others. > > So while it's unlikely that you personally would be pursued for putting > the BORI Mbh on your website, the website maintainer or even hosting > business might be pursued. > > Best, > Dominik > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing > committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or > unsubscribe) > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From drdhaval2785 at gmail.com Wed Oct 2 03:23:17 2019 From: drdhaval2785 at gmail.com (Dhaval Patel) Date: Wed, 02 Oct 19 08:53:17 +0530 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Tattvakaumudi Srinivasan Message-ID: Dear scholars, I am looking for a critical edition of tattvakaumudi by S. A. Srinivasan, Marburg, 1967. Any pointer to procurement would be appreciated. With regards, -- Dr. Dhaval Patel, I.A.S Collector and District Magistrate, Surat www.sanskritworld.in -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From drdhaval2785 at gmail.com Wed Oct 2 06:25:20 2019 From: drdhaval2785 at gmail.com (Dhaval Patel) Date: Wed, 02 Oct 19 11:55:20 +0530 Subject: =?utf-8?B?UmU6IFtJTkRPTE9HWV0ge+CkreCkvuCksOCkpOClgOCkr+CkteCkv+CkpuCljeCkteCkpOCljeCkquCksOCkv+Ckt+CkpOCljX0gVGF0dHZha2F1bXVkaSBTcmluaXZhc2Fu?= In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Dear Scholars, I extend my heartfelt thanks to the scholars who sent me the link in private mail. One correction regarding place of publication. It is Hamburg, not Marburg. On Wed, 2 Oct 2019 at 08:53, Dhaval Patel wrote: > Dear scholars, > I am looking for a critical edition of tattvakaumudi by S. A. Srinivasan, > Marburg, 1967. > > Any pointer to procurement would be appreciated. > > With regards, > > -- > Dr. Dhaval Patel, I.A.S > Collector and District Magistrate, Surat > www.sanskritworld.in > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "???????????????????" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to bvparishat+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bvparishat/CADSGPzULqsz19QT1Jvy4DLw52SaKpnmXUB5uQPoZze5zy_S3zg%40mail.gmail.com > > . > -- Dr. Dhaval Patel, I.A.S Collector and District Magistrate, Surat www.sanskritworld.in -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From drdhaval2785 at gmail.com Wed Oct 2 08:52:53 2019 From: drdhaval2785 at gmail.com (Dhaval Patel) Date: Wed, 02 Oct 19 14:22:53 +0530 Subject: [INDOLOGY] New Catalogus Catalogorum request Message-ID: Dear all, If any scholar having access to NCC could send me the pages of NCC having the details of 'S??khyak?rik?', 'S??khyatattvakaumud?' and 'S??khyatattvaprad?pa', I would be very grateful. -- Dr. Dhaval Patel, I.A.S Collector and District Magistrate, Surat www.sanskritworld.in -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From wujastyk at gmail.com Wed Oct 2 15:56:10 2019 From: wujastyk at gmail.com (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Wed, 02 Oct 19 08:56:10 -0700 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Uncaught bounce notification In-Reply-To: Message-ID: [Both the posts below bounced; I'm guessing that the Simon and Dominik didn't send their posts from the email addresses with which they're registered at INDOLOGY.] But to respond, Simon mistakes intellectual property rights with copyright. In my experience, it is often the case that authors and scholars (including myself!) have false ideas about the nature of copyright. It really is worth going to a seminar or buying a book about it. Copyright is a mechanical thing. It is about *copying*. About the right to make a physical copy of an object that somebody else made earlier. BORI "made" the books, in the sense of physically producing the objects. So it has the right to control who copies those books. BORI and Tokunaga (and John) *made* the e-text. So they, ... etc. etc. This is somewhat reductionist, I realize, but it is the core of the issue and it may help to have it stated baldly. Best, Dominik -- Professor Dominik Wujastyk , Singhmar Chair in Classical Indian Society and Polity , Department of History and Classics , University of Alberta, Canada . South Asia at the U of A: sas.ualberta.ca On Tue, 1 Oct 2019 at 03:02, wrote: > The attached message was received as a bounce, but either the bounce > format was not recognized, or no member addresses could be extracted > from it. This mailing list has been configured to send all > unrecognized bounce messages to the list administrator(s). > > For more information see: > http://list.indology.info/mailman/admin/indology_list.indology.info/bounce > > > > > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > From: Simon Brodbeck > To: INDOLOGY > Cc: > Bcc: > Date: Tue, 1 Oct 2019 09:26:19 +0000 > Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] Highlights from the Sanskrit corpora > Dear colleagues, > > I wonder if the matter might be complicated, at least in principle, by the > idea that the Mahabharata as critically reconstituted by the editors is an > approximation of a text that was produced many centuries earlier? Reading > Sukthankar's "Prolegomena" one has the impression that his claim was not to > have created a new text, but to have recreated an old one. Although there > may be different views on whether or not that claim was justified, it might > seem somewhat contradictory for Sukthankar or BORI to claim copyright on > the published reconstituted text. And if so, wouldn't the situation be > similar for any number of explicitly reconstructive editions? > > Yours, > Simon Brodbeck > Cardiff University > > ------------------------------ > *From:* INDOLOGY on behalf of > Dominik Haas via INDOLOGY > *Sent:* 01 October 2019 09:45 > *To:* indology at list.indology.info > *Subject:* Re: [INDOLOGY] Highlights from the Sanskrit corpora > > > Dear Jonathan and Dominik, > > I just had the very same thoughts. I'm not an expert of law either, but technically > speaking, the BORI Mah?bh?rata is not simply an edition, but a new text > created by its editors between 1919 and 1966. The editors are, in this > case, actually authors, who obviously transferred their copyright to the > still existing BORI. So unless an ancient and complete manuscript appears > which contains the very same text as the BORI Mah?bh?rata (very unlikely, I > would say), the BORI holds the copyright of its text. According to German > law (mentioned by Dominik), however, it does not ? 25 years have long gone > past since the publication of the original edition. The co-owned copyright > of Prof. Tokunaga (1994), too, would expire this year ? in Germany. > > Of course, authors also have the copyright to transcriptions of their text > ? just imagine someone would transcribe a talk you give and then publish it > as their own text. I would argue that creating an electronic transcription > of a (copyrighted) Devan?gar? text isn't much different. > > Best regards, > > Dominik A. Haas > > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From piotrbalcerowicz1 at gmail.com Thu Oct 3 00:59:23 2019 From: piotrbalcerowicz1 at gmail.com (Piotr Balcerowicz) Date: Thu, 03 Oct 19 06:29:23 +0530 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Essays In Jaina Philosophy And Religion (2003) Message-ID: Dear Colleagues, I have decided to make the following publication on Jaina Studies freely available: *Essays In Jaina Philosophy And Religion. Edited by Piotr Balcerowicz, Motilal Banarsidass, Delhi 2003.* https://archive.org/details/essaysinjainaphilosophyandreligionedpiotrbalcerowicz Best regards, Piotr Balcerowicz ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ http://balcerowicz.eu/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From perjohan.sindahl at gmail.com Thu Oct 3 08:02:14 2019 From: perjohan.sindahl at gmail.com (Per-Johan Norelius) Date: Thu, 03 Oct 19 10:02:14 +0200 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Article request Message-ID: Dear colleagues, I've been looking for two papers presented at the 14th World Sanskrit Conference in Kyoto, 2009: Toshifumi Got?, "On the M?rt???a Myth in Rigveda X 72" Elizabeth Tucker, "PS 11:5: The dak?i?? cow, the adhijar?yu-, and the linguistic history of the Vedic word jar?yu-" Does anyone know if these have been published somewhere? Or would anyone have a pdf to share (provided that there is no copyright infringement)? Best, Per-Johan Norelius Virusfritt. www.avast.com <#m_7884995192234864028_m_5374925490355909369_m_-1674738164451721666_m_-5539773555985542120_m_4107370623926962287_DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2> -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From buescherhartmut at gmail.com Thu Oct 3 10:52:17 2019 From: buescherhartmut at gmail.com (Hartmut Buescher) Date: Thu, 03 Oct 19 12:52:17 +0200 Subject: =?utf-8?Q?[INDOLOGY]_The_Pa=E1=B9=87=E1=B8=8Dit_Collection_(COMDC_7.2)?= Message-ID: Dear colleagues, it is a pleasure to inform you that, with some delay, the publication of a new Sanskrit catalogue in the COMDC series (https://tinyurl.com/y3lknzmq) has become available. Actually consisting in 2 volumes (872 pp., 80+ illustrations), it constitutes COMDC 7.2 and may be ordered from NIAS Press, hence let me refer you to this link providing you with some basic information (http://www.niaspress.dk/books/catalogue-sanskrit-manuscripts-0). Describing the Royal Danish Library?s (http://www.kb.dk/da/index.html) so-called *Pa??it Collection*, being much larger than all the three collections described in COMDC 7.1 together, COMDC 7.2 may be said to be contextually related to a recent larger indological project focusing on *Sanskrit Knowledge * *Systems at the Eve of Colonialism*, which similar to other contributions such as *The Pandit: Traditional Scholarship in India* (ed. Axel Michaels, 2001), has contributed with valuable perspectives to an investigation of ?the structure and social context of Sanskrit science and knowledge from 1550 to 1750.? That is, complementing our understanding of the *pa??ita* in a panorama of external, historical and socio-political, circumstances, this catalogue of a Pa??it?s collection of Sanskrit manuscripts provides, phenomenologically speaking, many insights into a Pa??it?s lifeworld, it opens doors, one might say, to his inner life, to his numerous mental and intellectual spaces of intentional horizons spanning from the Vedas to the epics and *Pur??a*s, from grammar to lexicography, from astrology to palmistry, from the legal works of *Dharma??stra* to the dramatic and poetic works of *K?vya* and *Subh??ita*, from the ritual domains of the *?rautas?tra*s and *G?hyas?tra*s to innumerable forms of *prayoga*s and *p?j?*s, including Tantric variations, not to forget his fondness for the emotional spheres of *stotra* and his knowledge of at least some branches of philosophy and *Yoga??stra*. Given the many illustrations associated with analytic descriptions addressing all the three levels (the physical, the semiotic and the semantic) embodied in manuscripts as pre-modern instruments of transmitting knowledge from generation to generation, it may likewise be a useful tool when initially introducing students to the very fundamental Indological issue of reading, or at least being aware of the horizon of, manuscripts, then, from the outset, better to grasp the necessary tasks of philology, the latter not least also as a proper foundation for assertions related to hermeneutical issues of textual interpretation. Myself being (*unzeitgem??* ?smartphonelessly?) off to India again for the following weeks, let me wish you ? as long as this may still be possible without sounding ironical ? a wonderful autumn season, Hartmut Buescher . -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From arjunsr1987 at gmail.com Thu Oct 3 12:31:21 2019 From: arjunsr1987 at gmail.com (Arjuna S R) Date: Thu, 03 Oct 19 18:01:21 +0530 Subject: =?utf-8?Q?[INDOLOGY]_Looking_for_=C5=9Aiva-tattva-ratnakara_pdf?= Message-ID: Dear all, My colleague is looking for ?iva-tattva-ratnakara of Basavaraja or Basavabhupala. The archive has only part 2. Any help in this regard would be highly appreciated. Thank you. Regards, Arjuna Manipal, India -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From H.J.H.Tieken at hum.leidenuniv.nl Thu Oct 3 14:09:17 2019 From: H.J.H.Tieken at hum.leidenuniv.nl (Tieken, H.J.H.) Date: Thu, 03 Oct 19 14:09:17 +0000 Subject: [INDOLOGY] question about a Jaina practice Message-ID: Dear List members, Jaina monks, or their followers, are often depicted sitting with a strap going around their bodies and legs. (a few years ago I saw this contraption in a posh interior decorating shop in Leiden as an alternative chair!) Could anyone tell me if this strap, or sitting supported by this strap, had a (Sanskrit, MIA or NIA) name. By the way, it is not a particular Jaina practice. If I remember well, the strap can also be seen on, for instance, the Borobudur. Herman Herman Tieken Stationsweg 58 2515 BP Den Haag The Netherlands 00 31 (0)70 2208127 website: hermantieken.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ondracka at ff.cuni.cz Thu Oct 3 14:18:33 2019 From: ondracka at ff.cuni.cz (=?utf-8?Q?Lubom=C3=ADr_Ondra=C4=8Dka?=) Date: Thu, 03 Oct 19 14:18:33 +0000 Subject: [INDOLOGY] question about a Jaina practice In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20191003162003.2bed3b6a742e7773b5f058bb@ff.cuni.cz> Dear Herman, it is called yogapa??a in Sanskrit (and has various forms in NIA, e.g. jogau?? in Avadhi), see this article: https://www.theluminescent.org/2018/06/the-ancient-yoga-strap-yogapatta.html Best, Lubomir On Thu, 3 Oct 2019 14:09:17 +0000 "Tieken, H.J.H. via INDOLOGY" wrote: > Dear List members, > > Jaina monks, or their followers, are often depicted sitting with a strap going around their bodies and legs. (a few years ago I saw this contraption in a posh interior decorating shop in Leiden as an alternative chair!) Could anyone tell me if this strap, or sitting supported by this strap, had a (Sanskrit, MIA or NIA) name. By the way, it is not a particular Jaina practice. If I remember well, the strap can also be seen on, for instance, the Borobudur. > > Herman > > Herman Tieken > Stationsweg 58 > 2515 BP Den Haag > The Netherlands > 00 31 (0)70 2208127 > website: hermantieken.com From H.J.H.Tieken at hum.leidenuniv.nl Thu Oct 3 14:25:11 2019 From: H.J.H.Tieken at hum.leidenuniv.nl (Tieken, H.J.H.) Date: Thu, 03 Oct 19 14:25:11 +0000 Subject: [INDOLOGY] question about a Jaina practice In-Reply-To: <20191003162003.2bed3b6a742e7773b5f058bb@ff.cuni.cz> Message-ID: Dear Lubomir. Thank you very much for the quick reply and the article. Herman Herman Tieken Stationsweg 58 2515 BP Den Haag The Netherlands 00 31 (0)70 2208127 website: hermantieken.com ________________________________________ Van: Lubom?r Ondra?ka [ondracka at ff.cuni.cz] Verzonden: donderdag 3 oktober 2019 16:18 Aan: Tieken, H.J.H. CC: Tieken, H.J.H. via INDOLOGY Onderwerp: Re: [INDOLOGY] question about a Jaina practice Dear Herman, it is called yogapa??a in Sanskrit (and has various forms in NIA, e.g. jogau?? in Avadhi), see this article: https://www.theluminescent.org/2018/06/the-ancient-yoga-strap-yogapatta.html Best, Lubomir On Thu, 3 Oct 2019 14:09:17 +0000 "Tieken, H.J.H. via INDOLOGY" wrote: > Dear List members, > > Jaina monks, or their followers, are often depicted sitting with a strap going around their bodies and legs. (a few years ago I saw this contraption in a posh interior decorating shop in Leiden as an alternative chair!) Could anyone tell me if this strap, or sitting supported by this strap, had a (Sanskrit, MIA or NIA) name. By the way, it is not a particular Jaina practice. If I remember well, the strap can also be seen on, for instance, the Borobudur. > > Herman > > Herman Tieken > Stationsweg 58 > 2515 BP Den Haag > The Netherlands > 00 31 (0)70 2208127 > website: hermantieken.com From jpo at austin.utexas.edu Thu Oct 3 14:28:45 2019 From: jpo at austin.utexas.edu (Olivelle, J P) Date: Thu, 03 Oct 19 14:28:45 +0000 Subject: [INDOLOGY] question about a Jaina practice In-Reply-To: <20191003162003.2bed3b6a742e7773b5f058bb@ff.cuni.cz> Message-ID: Besides the wonderfully illustrated article shared by Lubomir, there is a lot of material on the yogapa??a in Brahmanical ascetic literature. The conferring of the yogapa??a appears to be some sort of higher ordination in the Brahmanical orders. See my edition of V?sudev??rama?s Yatidharmaprak???, 66.1?24, a section called ?yogapa??avidhi?. Patrick > On Oct 3, 2019, at 9:18 AM, Lubom?r Ondra?ka via INDOLOGY wrote: > > Dear Herman, > > it is called yogapa??a in Sanskrit (and has various forms in NIA, e.g. jogau?? in Avadhi), see this article: > https://www.theluminescent.org/2018/06/the-ancient-yoga-strap-yogapatta.html > > Best, > Lubomir > > > On Thu, 3 Oct 2019 14:09:17 +0000 > "Tieken, H.J.H. via INDOLOGY" wrote: > >> Dear List members, >> >> Jaina monks, or their followers, are often depicted sitting with a strap going around their bodies and legs. (a few years ago I saw this contraption in a posh interior decorating shop in Leiden as an alternative chair!) Could anyone tell me if this strap, or sitting supported by this strap, had a (Sanskrit, MIA or NIA) name. By the way, it is not a particular Jaina practice. If I remember well, the strap can also be seen on, for instance, the Borobudur. >> >> Herman >> >> Herman Tieken >> Stationsweg 58 >> 2515 BP Den Haag >> The Netherlands >> 00 31 (0)70 2208127 >> website: hermantieken.com > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) >>> This message is from an external sender. Learn more about why this << >>> matters at https://links.utexas.edu/rtyclf. << From philipp.a.maas at gmail.com Thu Oct 3 15:39:29 2019 From: philipp.a.maas at gmail.com (Philipp Maas) Date: Thu, 03 Oct 19 17:39:29 +0200 Subject: [INDOLOGY] question about a Jaina practice In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Dear Herman, Further textual references to the use of a yoga strap in yoga literature can be found on p. 71 of my article "'Sthirasukham ?sanam': Posture and Performance in Classical Yoga and Beyond", which you find published in open-access here . Best wishes, Philipp __________________________ Dr. Philipp A. Maas Research Associate Institut f?r Indologie und Zentralasienwissenschaften Universit?t Leipzig ___________________________ https://spp1448.academia.edu/PhilippMaas Virenfrei. www.avast.com <#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2> Am Do., 3. Okt. 2019 um 16:10 Uhr schrieb Tieken, H.J.H. via INDOLOGY < indology at list.indology.info>: > Dear List members, > > Jaina monks, or their followers, are often depicted sitting with a strap > going around their bodies and legs. (a few years ago I saw this contraption > in a posh interior decorating shop in Leiden as an alternative chair!) > Could anyone tell me if this strap, or sitting supported by this strap, had > a (Sanskrit, MIA or NIA) name. By the way, it is not a particular Jaina > practice. If I remember well, the strap can also be seen on, for instance, > the Borobudur. > > Herman > > Herman Tieken > Stationsweg 58 > 2515 BP Den Haag > The Netherlands > 00 31 (0)70 2208127 > website: hermantieken.com > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing > committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or > unsubscribe) > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Rupert.Gethin at bristol.ac.uk Thu Oct 3 15:52:10 2019 From: Rupert.Gethin at bristol.ac.uk (Rupert Gethin) Date: Thu, 03 Oct 19 15:52:10 +0000 Subject: [INDOLOGY] question about a Jaina practice In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <779BDB0A-BB75-4AA9-A524-0F3E0FB7CFCC@bristol.ac.uk> Since it is appears not to be mentioned in the article cited by Lubomir or in Philipp?s article (forgive me if I have missed it), it is perhaps worth adding that this kind of strap is also mentioned in Pali sources where it is called ?yogapa??a. In the Visuddhimagga Buddhaghosa describes the ?sitter?s practice? (nesajjika?ga), the last in the list of 13 ascetic practices, as follows: 'This has three grades too. Herein, one who is strict is not allowed a back-rest or cloth band or binding-strap (?yogapa??a). The medium one is allowed any one of these three. The mild one is allowed a back-rest, a cloth band, a binding-strap, a cushion, a ?five-limb? and a ?seven-limb" [chair].? (After ???amoli, Path of Purification, II.74) Best wishes, Rupert -- Rupert Gethin University of Bristol Department of Religion and Theology 3 Woodland Road Bristol BS8 1TB, UK Email: Rupert.Gethin at bristol.ac.uk On 3 Oct 2019, at 16:39, Philipp Maas via INDOLOGY > wrote: Dear Herman, Further textual references to the use of a yoga strap in yoga literature can be found on p. 71 of my article "'Sthirasukham ?sanam': Posture and Performance in Classical Yoga and Beyond", which you find published in open-access here. Best wishes, Philipp __________________________ Dr. Philipp A. Maas Research Associate Institut f?r Indologie und Zentralasienwissenschaften Universit?t Leipzig ___________________________ https://spp1448.academia.edu/PhilippMaas [https://ipmcdn.avast.com/images/icons/icon-envelope-tick-round-orange-animated-no-repeat-v1.gif] Virenfrei. www.avast.com Am Do., 3. Okt. 2019 um 16:10 Uhr schrieb Tieken, H.J.H. via INDOLOGY >: Dear List members, Jaina monks, or their followers, are often depicted sitting with a strap going around their bodies and legs. (a few years ago I saw this contraption in a posh interior decorating shop in Leiden as an alternative chair!) Could anyone tell me if this strap, or sitting supported by this strap, had a (Sanskrit, MIA or NIA) name. By the way, it is not a particular Jaina practice. If I remember well, the strap can also be seen on, for instance, the Borobudur. Herman Herman Tieken Stationsweg 58 2515 BP Den Haag The Netherlands 00 31 (0)70 2208127 website: hermantieken.com _______________________________________________ INDOLOGY mailing list INDOLOGY at list.indology.info indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) _______________________________________________ INDOLOGY mailing list INDOLOGY at list.indology.info indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mmdesh at umich.edu Thu Oct 3 16:12:35 2019 From: mmdesh at umich.edu (Madhav Deshpande) Date: Thu, 03 Oct 19 09:12:35 -0700 Subject: [INDOLOGY] question about a Jaina practice In-Reply-To: <779BDB0A-BB75-4AA9-A524-0F3E0FB7CFCC@bristol.ac.uk> Message-ID: Is there any pictorial description/representation of these assisting devices in iconography or Jain/Buddhist/Hindu Yoga practice? Madhav M. Deshpande Professor Emeritus, Sanskrit and Linguistics University of Michigan, Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA Senior Fellow, Oxford Center for Hindu Studies [Residence: Campbell, California, USA] On Thu, Oct 3, 2019 at 8:52 AM Rupert Gethin via INDOLOGY < indology at list.indology.info> wrote: > Since it is appears not to be mentioned in the article cited by Lubomir or > in Philipp?s article (forgive me if I have missed it), it is perhaps worth > adding that this kind of strap is also mentioned in Pali sources where it > is called ?yogapa??a. In the Visuddhimagga Buddhaghosa describes the > ?sitter?s practice? (nesajjika?ga), the last in the list of 13 ascetic > practices, as follows: > > 'This has three grades too. Herein, one who is strict is not allowed a > back-rest or cloth band or binding-strap (?yogapa??a). The medium one is > allowed any one of these three. The mild one is allowed a back-rest, a > cloth band, a binding-strap, a cushion, a ?five-limb? and a ?seven-limb" > [chair].? (After ???amoli, Path of Purification, II.74) > > Best wishes, > > Rupert > -- > *Rupert Gethin* > > University of Bristol > Department of Religion and Theology > 3 Woodland Road > Bristol BS8 1TB, UK > > Email: Rupert.Gethin at bristol.ac.uk > > On 3 Oct 2019, at 16:39, Philipp Maas via INDOLOGY < > indology at list.indology.info> wrote: > > Dear Herman, > Further textual references to the use of a yoga strap in yoga literature > can be found on p. 71 of my article "'Sthirasukham ?sanam': Posture and > Performance in Classical Yoga and Beyond", which you find published in > open-access here > > . > > Best wishes, > > Philipp > __________________________ > > Dr. Philipp A. Maas > Research Associate > Institut f?r Indologie und Zentralasienwissenschaften > Universit?t Leipzig > ___________________________ > > https://spp1448.academia.edu/PhilippMaas > > > > Virenfrei. > www.avast.com > > > Am Do., 3. Okt. 2019 um 16:10 Uhr schrieb Tieken, H.J.H. via INDOLOGY < > indology at list.indology.info>: > >> Dear List members, >> >> Jaina monks, or their followers, are often depicted sitting with a strap >> going around their bodies and legs. (a few years ago I saw this contraption >> in a posh interior decorating shop in Leiden as an alternative chair!) >> Could anyone tell me if this strap, or sitting supported by this strap, had >> a (Sanskrit, MIA or NIA) name. By the way, it is not a particular Jaina >> practice. If I remember well, the strap can also be seen on, for instance, >> the Borobudur. >> >> Herman >> >> Herman Tieken >> Stationsweg 58 >> 2515 BP Den Haag >> The Netherlands >> 00 31 (0)70 2208127 >> website: hermantieken.com >> _______________________________________________ >> INDOLOGY mailing list >> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info >> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing >> committee) >> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or >> unsubscribe) >> > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing > committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or > unsubscribe) > > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing > committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or > unsubscribe) > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From palaniappa at aol.com Thu Oct 3 16:25:05 2019 From: palaniappa at aol.com (Sudalaimuthu Palaniappan) Date: Thu, 03 Oct 19 11:25:05 -0500 Subject: [INDOLOGY] question about a Jaina practice In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <87281ECE-EF91-4039-A2AF-59C885868C22@aol.com> The deity Aiyappa?/Ayyappa? is usually shown with the yogapatta. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ayyappan. Regards, Palaniappan From: INDOLOGY on behalf of Indology List Reply-To: Madhav Deshpande Date: Thursday, October 3, 2019 at 11:13 AM To: Rupert Gethin Cc: Indology List Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] question about a Jaina practice Is there any pictorial description/representation of these assisting devices in iconography or Jain/Buddhist/Hindu Yoga practice? Madhav M. Deshpande Professor Emeritus, Sanskrit and Linguistics University of Michigan, Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA Senior Fellow, Oxford Center for Hindu Studies [Residence: Campbell, California, USA] On Thu, Oct 3, 2019 at 8:52 AM Rupert Gethin via INDOLOGY wrote: Since it is appears not to be mentioned in the article cited by Lubomir or in Philipp?s article (forgive me if I have missed it), it is perhaps worth adding that this kind of strap is also mentioned in Pali sources where it is called ?yogapa??a. In the Visuddhimagga Buddhaghosa describes the ?sitter?s practice? (nesajjika?ga), the last in the list of 13 ascetic practices, as follows: 'This has three grades too. Herein, one who is strict is not allowed a back-rest or cloth band or binding-strap (?yogapa??a). The medium one is allowed any one of these three. The mild one is allowed a back-rest, a cloth band, a binding-strap, a cushion, a ?five-limb? and a ?seven-limb" [chair].? (After ???amoli, Path of Purification, II.74) Best wishes, Rupert -- Rupert Gethin University of Bristol Department of Religion and Theology 3 Woodland Road Bristol BS8 1TB, UK Email: Rupert.Gethin at bristol.ac.uk On 3 Oct 2019, at 16:39, Philipp Maas via INDOLOGY wrote: Dear Herman, Further textual references to the use of a yoga strap in yoga literature can be found on p. 71 of my article "'Sthirasukham ?sanam': Posture and Performance in Classical Yoga and Beyond", which you find published in open-access here. Best wishes, Philipp __________________________ Dr. Philipp A. Maas Research Associate Institut f?r Indologie und Zentralasienwissenschaften Universit?t Leipzig ___________________________ https://spp1448.academia.edu/PhilippMaas Virenfrei. www.avast.com Am Do., 3. Okt. 2019 um 16:10 Uhr schrieb Tieken, H.J.H. via INDOLOGY : Dear List members, Jaina monks, or their followers, are often depicted sitting with a strap going around their bodies and legs. (a few years ago I saw this contraption in a posh interior decorating shop in Leiden as an alternative chair!) Could anyone tell me if this strap, or sitting supported by this strap, had a (Sanskrit, MIA or NIA) name. By the way, it is not a particular Jaina practice. If I remember well, the strap can also be seen on, for instance, the Borobudur. Herman Herman Tieken Stationsweg 58 2515 BP Den Haag The Netherlands 00 31 (0)70 2208127 website: hermantieken.com _______________________________________________ INDOLOGY mailing list INDOLOGY at list.indology.info indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) _______________________________________________ INDOLOGY mailing list INDOLOGY at list.indology.info indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) _______________________________________________ INDOLOGY mailing list INDOLOGY at list.indology.info indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) _______________________________________________ INDOLOGY mailing list INDOLOGY at list.indology.info indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jpo at austin.utexas.edu Thu Oct 3 16:31:08 2019 From: jpo at austin.utexas.edu (Olivelle, J P) Date: Thu, 03 Oct 19 16:31:08 +0000 Subject: [INDOLOGY] question about a Jaina practice In-Reply-To: Message-ID: If you look at the link given by Lubomir, you will see several images. On Oct 3, 2019, at 11:12 AM, Madhav Deshpande via INDOLOGY > wrote: Is there any pictorial description/representation of these assisting devices in iconography or Jain/Buddhist/Hindu Yoga practice? Madhav M. Deshpande Professor Emeritus, Sanskrit and Linguistics University of Michigan, Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA Senior Fellow, Oxford Center for Hindu Studies [Residence: Campbell, California, USA] On Thu, Oct 3, 2019 at 8:52 AM Rupert Gethin via INDOLOGY > wrote: Since it is appears not to be mentioned in the article cited by Lubomir or in Philipp?s article (forgive me if I have missed it), it is perhaps worth adding that this kind of strap is also mentioned in Pali sources where it is called ?yogapa??a. In the Visuddhimagga Buddhaghosa describes the ?sitter?s practice? (nesajjika?ga), the last in the list of 13 ascetic practices, as follows: 'This has three grades too. Herein, one who is strict is not allowed a back-rest or cloth band or binding-strap (?yogapa??a). The medium one is allowed any one of these three. The mild one is allowed a back-rest, a cloth band, a binding-strap, a cushion, a ?five-limb? and a ?seven-limb" [chair].? (After ???amoli, Path of Purification, II.74) Best wishes, Rupert -- Rupert Gethin University of Bristol Department of Religion and Theology 3 Woodland Road Bristol BS8 1TB, UK Email: Rupert.Gethin at bristol.ac.uk On 3 Oct 2019, at 16:39, Philipp Maas via INDOLOGY > wrote: Dear Herman, Further textual references to the use of a yoga strap in yoga literature can be found on p. 71 of my article "'Sthirasukham ?sanam': Posture and Performance in Classical Yoga and Beyond", which you find published in open-access here. Best wishes, Philipp __________________________ Dr. Philipp A. Maas Research Associate Institut f?r Indologie und Zentralasienwissenschaften Universit?t Leipzig ___________________________ https://spp1448.academia.edu/PhilippMaas [https://ipmcdn.avast.com/images/icons/icon-envelope-tick-round-orange-animated-no-repeat-v1.gif] Virenfrei. www.avast.com Am Do., 3. Okt. 2019 um 16:10 Uhr schrieb Tieken, H.J.H. via INDOLOGY >: Dear List members, Jaina monks, or their followers, are often depicted sitting with a strap going around their bodies and legs. (a few years ago I saw this contraption in a posh interior decorating shop in Leiden as an alternative chair!) Could anyone tell me if this strap, or sitting supported by this strap, had a (Sanskrit, MIA or NIA) name. By the way, it is not a particular Jaina practice. If I remember well, the strap can also be seen on, for instance, the Borobudur. Herman Herman Tieken Stationsweg 58 2515 BP Den Haag The Netherlands 00 31 (0)70 2208127 website: hermantieken.com _______________________________________________ INDOLOGY mailing list INDOLOGY at list.indology.info indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) _______________________________________________ INDOLOGY mailing list INDOLOGY at list.indology.info indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) _______________________________________________ INDOLOGY mailing list INDOLOGY at list.indology.info indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) _______________________________________________ INDOLOGY mailing list INDOLOGY at list.indology.info indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) This message is from an external sender. Learn more about why this << matters at https://links.utexas.edu/rtyclf. << -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From palaniappa at aol.com Thu Oct 3 16:45:53 2019 From: palaniappa at aol.com (Sudalaimuthu Palaniappan) Date: Thu, 03 Oct 19 11:45:53 -0500 Subject: [INDOLOGY] question about a Jaina practice In-Reply-To: <87281ECE-EF91-4039-A2AF-59C885868C22@aol.com> Message-ID: Here is a female deity with the yogapatta. https://www.artic.edu/artworks/144905/mother-goddess-brahmani-seated-in-yogic-posture-holding-water-pot Regards, Palaniappan From: Sudalaimuthu Palaniappant Date: Thursday, October 3, 2019 at 11:25 AM To: Madhav Deshpande , Rupert Gethin Cc: Indology List Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] question about a Jaina practice The deity Aiyappa?/Ayyappa? is usually shown with the yogapatta. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ayyappan. Regards, Palaniappan From: INDOLOGY on behalf of Indology List Reply-To: Madhav Deshpande Date: Thursday, October 3, 2019 at 11:13 AM To: Rupert Gethin Cc: Indology List Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] question about a Jaina practice Is there any pictorial description/representation of these assisting devices in iconography or Jain/Buddhist/Hindu Yoga practice? Madhav M. Deshpande Professor Emeritus, Sanskrit and Linguistics University of Michigan, Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA Senior Fellow, Oxford Center for Hindu Studies [Residence: Campbell, California, USA] On Thu, Oct 3, 2019 at 8:52 AM Rupert Gethin via INDOLOGY wrote: Since it is appears not to be mentioned in the article cited by Lubomir or in Philipp?s article (forgive me if I have missed it), it is perhaps worth adding that this kind of strap is also mentioned in Pali sources where it is called ?yogapa??a. In the Visuddhimagga Buddhaghosa describes the ?sitter?s practice? (nesajjika?ga), the last in the list of 13 ascetic practices, as follows: 'This has three grades too. Herein, one who is strict is not allowed a back-rest or cloth band or binding-strap (?yogapa??a). The medium one is allowed any one of these three. The mild one is allowed a back-rest, a cloth band, a binding-strap, a cushion, a ?five-limb? and a ?seven-limb" [chair].? (After ???amoli, Path of Purification, II.74) Best wishes, Rupert -- Rupert Gethin University of Bristol Department of Religion and Theology 3 Woodland Road Bristol BS8 1TB, UK Email: Rupert.Gethin at bristol.ac.uk On 3 Oct 2019, at 16:39, Philipp Maas via INDOLOGY wrote: Dear Herman, Further textual references to the use of a yoga strap in yoga literature can be found on p. 71 of my article "'Sthirasukham ?sanam': Posture and Performance in Classical Yoga and Beyond", which you find published in open-access here. Best wishes, Philipp __________________________ Dr. Philipp A. Maas Research Associate Institut f?r Indologie und Zentralasienwissenschaften Universit?t Leipzig ___________________________ https://spp1448.academia.edu/PhilippMaas Virenfrei. www.avast.com Am Do., 3. Okt. 2019 um 16:10 Uhr schrieb Tieken, H.J.H. via INDOLOGY : Dear List members, Jaina monks, or their followers, are often depicted sitting with a strap going around their bodies and legs. (a few years ago I saw this contraption in a posh interior decorating shop in Leiden as an alternative chair!) Could anyone tell me if this strap, or sitting supported by this strap, had a (Sanskrit, MIA or NIA) name. By the way, it is not a particular Jaina practice. If I remember well, the strap can also be seen on, for instance, the Borobudur. Herman Herman Tieken Stationsweg 58 2515 BP Den Haag The Netherlands 00 31 (0)70 2208127 website: hermantieken.com _______________________________________________ INDOLOGY mailing list INDOLOGY at list.indology.info indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) _______________________________________________ INDOLOGY mailing list INDOLOGY at list.indology.info indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) _______________________________________________ INDOLOGY mailing list INDOLOGY at list.indology.info indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) _______________________________________________ INDOLOGY mailing list INDOLOGY at list.indology.info indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From john.darumadera at gmail.com Thu Oct 3 16:46:44 2019 From: john.darumadera at gmail.com (John Huntington) Date: Thu, 03 Oct 19 12:46:44 -0400 Subject: [INDOLOGY] question about a Jaina practice In-Reply-To: Message-ID: The yopgapa?a (ayogapa??a) occurs in two or three relief scened at S??ch? St?pa one. The example included is in the top panel of the south face of the north pillar of the west tora?a. While it is impossible to identify the specific religious practice of the yogin in the relief, he could be a Jain as we know that the were active and producing their own are as early as the first century BCE (at Mathura) and possibly earlier, i.e. the Lohanipur torso from the mauryan period. John C. Huntington On Thu, Oct 3, 2019 at 10:10 AM Tieken, H.J.H. via INDOLOGY < indology at list.indology.info> wrote: > Dear List members, > > Jaina monks, or their followers, are often depicted sitting with a strap > going around their bodies and legs. (a few years ago I saw this contraption > in a posh interior decorating shop in Leiden as an alternative chair!) > Could anyone tell me if this strap, or sitting supported by this strap, had > a (Sanskrit, MIA or NIA) name. By the way, it is not a particular Jaina > practice. If I remember well, the strap can also be seen on, for instance, > the Borobudur. > > Herman > > Herman Tieken > Stationsweg 58 > 2515 BP Den Haag > The Netherlands > 00 31 (0)70 2208127 > website: hermantieken.com > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing > committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or > unsubscribe) > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mmdesh at umich.edu Thu Oct 3 16:47:41 2019 From: mmdesh at umich.edu (Madhav Deshpande) Date: Thu, 03 Oct 19 09:47:41 -0700 Subject: [INDOLOGY] question about a Jaina practice In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Thanks, Patrick, I now looked at all the images in the link provided by Lubomir. I am interested in something like this for personal use. Three months after my knee joint replacement surgery, I can now fold my legs for Yoga, but only with some discomfort. Perhaps, something like this Yogapa??a will be useful. Best, Madhav Madhav M. Deshpande Professor Emeritus, Sanskrit and Linguistics University of Michigan, Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA Senior Fellow, Oxford Center for Hindu Studies [Residence: Campbell, California, USA] On Thu, Oct 3, 2019 at 9:31 AM Olivelle, J P wrote: > If you look at the link given by Lubomir, you will see several images. > > > > On Oct 3, 2019, at 11:12 AM, Madhav Deshpande via INDOLOGY < > indology at list.indology.info> wrote: > > Is there any pictorial description/representation of these assisting > devices in iconography or Jain/Buddhist/Hindu Yoga practice? > > Madhav M. Deshpande > Professor Emeritus, Sanskrit and Linguistics > University of Michigan, Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA > Senior Fellow, Oxford Center for Hindu Studies > > [Residence: Campbell, California, USA] > > > On Thu, Oct 3, 2019 at 8:52 AM Rupert Gethin via INDOLOGY < > indology at list.indology.info> wrote: > >> Since it is appears not to be mentioned in the article cited by Lubomir >> or in Philipp?s article (forgive me if I have missed it), it is perhaps >> worth adding that this kind of strap is also mentioned in Pali sources >> where it is called ?yogapa??a. In the Visuddhimagga Buddhaghosa describes >> the ?sitter?s practice? (nesajjika?ga), the last in the list of 13 ascetic >> practices, as follows: >> >> 'This has three grades too. Herein, one who is strict is not allowed a >> back-rest or cloth band or binding-strap (?yogapa??a). The medium one is >> allowed any one of these three. The mild one is allowed a back-rest, a >> cloth band, a binding-strap, a cushion, a ?five-limb? and a ?seven-limb" >> [chair].? (After ???amoli, Path of Purification, II.74) >> >> Best wishes, >> >> Rupert >> -- >> *Rupert Gethin* >> >> University of Bristol >> Department of Religion and Theology >> 3 Woodland Road >> Bristol BS8 1TB, UK >> >> Email: Rupert.Gethin at bristol.ac.uk >> >> On 3 Oct 2019, at 16:39, Philipp Maas via INDOLOGY < >> indology at list.indology.info> wrote: >> >> Dear Herman, >> Further textual references to the use of a yoga strap in yoga literature >> can be found on p. 71 of my article "'Sthirasukham ?sanam': Posture and >> Performance in Classical Yoga and Beyond", which you find published in >> open-access here >> >> . >> >> Best wishes, >> >> Philipp >> __________________________ >> >> Dr. Philipp A. Maas >> Research Associate >> Institut f?r Indologie und Zentralasienwissenschaften >> Universit?t Leipzig >> ___________________________ >> >> https://spp1448.academia.edu/PhilippMaas >> >> >> >> Virenfrei. >> www.avast.com >> >> >> Am Do., 3. Okt. 2019 um 16:10 Uhr schrieb Tieken, H.J.H. via INDOLOGY < >> indology at list.indology.info>: >> >>> Dear List members, >>> >>> Jaina monks, or their followers, are often depicted sitting with a strap >>> going around their bodies and legs. (a few years ago I saw this contraption >>> in a posh interior decorating shop in Leiden as an alternative chair!) >>> Could anyone tell me if this strap, or sitting supported by this strap, had >>> a (Sanskrit, MIA or NIA) name. By the way, it is not a particular Jaina >>> practice. If I remember well, the strap can also be seen on, for instance, >>> the Borobudur. >>> >>> Herman >>> >>> Herman Tieken >>> Stationsweg 58 >>> 2515 BP Den Haag >>> The Netherlands >>> 00 31 (0)70 2208127 >>> website: hermantieken.com >>> _______________________________________________ >>> INDOLOGY mailing list >>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info >>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing >>> committee) >>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options >>> or unsubscribe) >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> INDOLOGY mailing list >> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info >> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing >> committee) >> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or >> unsubscribe) >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> INDOLOGY mailing list >> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info >> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing >> committee) >> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or >> unsubscribe) >> > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing > committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or > unsubscribe) > > This message is from an external sender. Learn more about why this << > matters at https://links.utexas.edu/rtyclf. << > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From john.darumadera at gmail.com Thu Oct 3 16:59:09 2019 From: john.darumadera at gmail.com (John Huntington) Date: Thu, 03 Oct 19 12:59:09 -0400 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Apology Message-ID: My sincere apologies to Lubomir! I somehow missed his e-mail until after I sent you the same picture as the lead on in his article (either old age and/or too many e-mails are getting to me) John -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From perjohan.sindahl at gmail.com Thu Oct 3 17:47:23 2019 From: perjohan.sindahl at gmail.com (Per-Johan Norelius) Date: Thu, 03 Oct 19 19:47:23 +0200 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Article request Message-ID: Many thanks to Kenji Takahashi and Jay Soni for helping me. Best, Per-Johan Norelius Virusfritt. www.avast.com <#m_5285619234260055740_DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2> -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From psdmccartney at gmail.com Fri Oct 4 04:07:08 2019 From: psdmccartney at gmail.com (patrick mccartney) Date: Fri, 04 Oct 19 13:07:08 +0900 Subject: =?utf-8?Q?[INDOLOGY]_fact_check_on_origin_myth_and_mallabh=C4=81=E1=B9=A3=C4=81?= Message-ID: Dear Friends, Might anyone know of a potential textual source of this origin myth paraphrased below. This is one of the origin myths of the Telegu/mallabh???-speaking Jettis. *The second origin myth relates to K???a, who gave the caste a devama?i (?divine? amulet); which was to be held for ten days each by one family each representing every gotra of the caste. However, when the diamond was passed on to the family representing the Vi?v?mitra gotra, two brothers fought for it; and, eventually, it was cut in half. Their guru cursed them that they should live by breaking each other?s hands.* Also, might anyone know of a descriptive grammar of the above mentioned 'mallabh??a'? I have come across snippets in old gazetteers of Mysore, etc. Or throw away lines like, "they speak a deficient form of Prakrit called mallabh?s?". thanks. All the best, ????? ??????? Patrick McCartney, PhD JSPS Fellow - Graduate School of Global Environmental Studies, Kyoto University, Japan Research Associate - Nanzan University Anthropological Institute, Nagoya, Japan Research Affiliate - Organization for Identity and Cultural Development (OICD), Kyoto Visiting Fellow - South and South-east Asian Studies Department, Australian National University Member - South Asia Research Institute (SARI), Australian National University Skype / Zoom - psdmccartney Phone + Whatsapp + Line: +81-80-9811-3235 Twitter - @psdmccartney @yogascapesinjap Yogascapes in Japan Academia Linkedin Modern Yoga Research *bodhap?rvam calema* ;-) - -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Christopher.Austin at Dal.Ca Fri Oct 4 09:24:53 2019 From: Christopher.Austin at Dal.Ca (Christopher Austin) Date: Fri, 04 Oct 19 09:24:53 +0000 Subject: [INDOLOGY] New Publication: Pradyumna Message-ID: Dear friends and colleagues, Please forgive the self-promotion -- I am happy to announce the appearance today of the following title: Pradyumna: Lover, Magician and Scion of the Avatara Christopher R. Austin Oxford University Press https://global.oup.com/academic/product/pradyumna-9780190054113?cc=us&lang=en& Much thanks, Chris Dr. Christopher R. Austin Dalhousie University Associate Professor, Religious Studies (Dept. of Classics) Program Director and Undergraduate Advisor, Religious Studies Treasurer, Canadian Corporation for Studies in Religion christopher.austin at dal.ca -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From kiepue at t-online.de Fri Oct 4 09:38:36 2019 From: kiepue at t-online.de (=?utf-8?Q?Petra_Kieffer-P=C3=BClz?=) Date: Fri, 04 Oct 19 11:38:36 +0200 Subject: =?utf-8?Q?[INDOLOGY]_New_Publication:_Buddhism,_Law_&_Society,_vol._4_(2018=E2=80=932019)?= Message-ID: <099D7E6F-42DF-45D6-B1B7-CD902D6CEB02@t-online.de> Dear list members, I?d like to announce the appearance of the 4th volume of Buddhism, Law & Society, ed. by Rebecca Redwood French, Joshua R. Coene, and Petra Kieffer-P?lz, with the following contents: Rebecca Redwood French, "The Integrated Discipline of Buddhism and Law: Editor's Introduction", pp. vii?xiv. Miguel ?lvarez Ortega, "Traditional Tibetan Buddhist Scholars on Dharma, Law, Politics, and Social Ethics: Philosophical Discussions in Boudhanath (Nepal)", pp. 1?52. Eug?nie M?rieau, "Thailand's L?se-Majest? Law: On Blasphemy in a Buddhist Kingdom", pp. 53?92. Aleix Ruiz-Falqu?s, "Purifying the P?timokkha: Pali Grammar and Buddhist Law in 17th-century Ha?s?vati", pp. 93?128. Prapod Assavirulhakarn & Peter Skilling [Bhadra Rujirathat], "The First Sa?gha Law (Kot phrasong 1), issued by King R?ma I in CE 1782", pp. 129?143. Christopher Handy, "Indian Buddhist Bathrooms: Politeness, Disgust and Monastic Law", pp. 145?196. https://home.heinonline.org/titles/Law-Journal-Library/Buddhism-Law--Society/?letter=B vol. 4 is not yet listed there With kind regards, Petra Kieffer-P?lz **************************************** Petra Kieffer-Puelz Cranachstr. 9 99423 Weimar Tel. 03643/770447 Email: kiepue at t-online.de -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From H.J.H.Tieken at hum.leidenuniv.nl Fri Oct 4 09:47:55 2019 From: H.J.H.Tieken at hum.leidenuniv.nl (Tieken, H.J.H.) Date: Fri, 04 Oct 19 09:47:55 +0000 Subject: [INDOLOGY] question about a Jaina practice In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I would like to thank Lubomir Ondracka, Patrick Olivelle, Madhav Deshpande, John Huntington, Sudalai Palaniappan, Rupert Gethin and Philip Maas for the information on the yogapa??a. I also hope that this contraption may be of use to Madhav Deshpande. Herman Herman Tieken Stationsweg 58 2515 BP Den Haag The Netherlands 00 31 (0)70 2208127 website: hermantieken.com ________________________________ Van: INDOLOGY [indology-bounces at list.indology.info] namens Madhav Deshpande via INDOLOGY [indology at list.indology.info] Verzonden: donderdag 3 oktober 2019 18:47 Aan: Olivelle, J P CC: Indology Onderwerp: Re: [INDOLOGY] question about a Jaina practice Thanks, Patrick, I now looked at all the images in the link provided by Lubomir. I am interested in something like this for personal use. Three months after my knee joint replacement surgery, I can now fold my legs for Yoga, but only with some discomfort. Perhaps, something like this Yogapa??a will be useful. Best, Madhav Madhav M. Deshpande Professor Emeritus, Sanskrit and Linguistics University of Michigan, Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA Senior Fellow, Oxford Center for Hindu Studies [Residence: Campbell, California, USA] On Thu, Oct 3, 2019 at 9:31 AM Olivelle, J P > wrote: If you look at the link given by Lubomir, you will see several images. On Oct 3, 2019, at 11:12 AM, Madhav Deshpande via INDOLOGY > wrote: Is there any pictorial description/representation of these assisting devices in iconography or Jain/Buddhist/Hindu Yoga practice? Madhav M. Deshpande Professor Emeritus, Sanskrit and Linguistics University of Michigan, Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA Senior Fellow, Oxford Center for Hindu Studies [Residence: Campbell, California, USA] On Thu, Oct 3, 2019 at 8:52 AM Rupert Gethin via INDOLOGY > wrote: Since it is appears not to be mentioned in the article cited by Lubomir or in Philipp?s article (forgive me if I have missed it), it is perhaps worth adding that this kind of strap is also mentioned in Pali sources where it is called ?yogapa??a. In the Visuddhimagga Buddhaghosa describes the ?sitter?s practice? (nesajjika?ga), the last in the list of 13 ascetic practices, as follows: 'This has three grades too. Herein, one who is strict is not allowed a back-rest or cloth band or binding-strap (?yogapa??a). The medium one is allowed any one of these three. The mild one is allowed a back-rest, a cloth band, a binding-strap, a cushion, a ?five-limb? and a ?seven-limb" [chair].? (After ???amoli, Path of Purification, II.74) Best wishes, Rupert -- Rupert Gethin University of Bristol Department of Religion and Theology 3 Woodland Road Bristol BS8 1TB, UK Email: Rupert.Gethin at bristol.ac.uk On 3 Oct 2019, at 16:39, Philipp Maas via INDOLOGY > wrote: Dear Herman, Further textual references to the use of a yoga strap in yoga literature can be found on p. 71 of my article "'Sthirasukham ?sanam': Posture and Performance in Classical Yoga and Beyond", which you find published in open-access here. Best wishes, Philipp __________________________ Dr. Philipp A. Maas Research Associate Institut f?r Indologie und Zentralasienwissenschaften Universit?t Leipzig ___________________________ https://spp1448.academia.edu/PhilippMaas [https://ipmcdn.avast.com/images/icons/icon-envelope-tick-round-orange-animated-no-repeat-v1.gif] Virenfrei. www.avast.com Am Do., 3. Okt. 2019 um 16:10 Uhr schrieb Tieken, H.J.H. via INDOLOGY >: Dear List members, Jaina monks, or their followers, are often depicted sitting with a strap going around their bodies and legs. (a few years ago I saw this contraption in a posh interior decorating shop in Leiden as an alternative chair!) Could anyone tell me if this strap, or sitting supported by this strap, had a (Sanskrit, MIA or NIA) name. By the way, it is not a particular Jaina practice. If I remember well, the strap can also be seen on, for instance, the Borobudur. Herman Herman Tieken Stationsweg 58 2515 BP Den Haag The Netherlands 00 31 (0)70 2208127 website: hermantieken.com _______________________________________________ INDOLOGY mailing list INDOLOGY at list.indology.info indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) _______________________________________________ INDOLOGY mailing list INDOLOGY at list.indology.info indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) _______________________________________________ INDOLOGY mailing list INDOLOGY at list.indology.info indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) _______________________________________________ INDOLOGY mailing list INDOLOGY at list.indology.info indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) This message is from an external sender. Learn more about why this << matters at https://links.utexas.edu/rtyclf. << -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mkapstei at uchicago.edu Fri Oct 4 19:37:21 2019 From: mkapstei at uchicago.edu (Matthew Kapstein) Date: Fri, 04 Oct 19 19:37:21 +0000 Subject: [INDOLOGY] articles needed Message-ID: Dear friends, Once again, I turn to this generous forum to see if the following articles might be available - I have not succeeded in locating them elsewhere: Akira Yuyama, "Remarks on the metre of the Praj??-p?ramit?-ratna-gu?a-sa?caya-g?th?" in Studies in Indo-Asian Art and Culture 2 (1993): 243-253. Akira Yuyama, "Some Glossarial Notes on the Praj??-p?ramit?-ratna-gu?a-sa?caya-g?th?," in Proceedings and Paper of the Fourteenth Congress of the Australasian Universities Language and Literature Association (1972): 30-37. E. Conze, "Verses on the Accumulation of Precious Qualities," in Indo-Asian Studies 1 (1962): 126-178. with thanks in advance, Matthew Matthew Kapstein Directeur d'?tudes, Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes Numata Visiting Professor of Buddhist Studies, The University of Chicago -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From drdhaval2785 at gmail.com Sat Oct 5 10:44:26 2019 From: drdhaval2785 at gmail.com (Dhaval Patel) Date: Sat, 05 Oct 19 16:14:26 +0530 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Request for Embryology / Anatomy in Ayurveda Message-ID: Respected Scholars, While working on edition of a work, I am faced with a long Ayurvedic tract. Can any of you suggest me to 1. Suggested text for a beginner for embryology and anatomy in Ayurveda. 2. Any papers which discusses embryology and anatomy in Ayurveda. With regards, -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Agnes.KORN at cnrs.fr Sat Oct 5 11:12:00 2019 From: Agnes.KORN at cnrs.fr (KORN Agnes) Date: Sat, 05 Oct 19 11:12:00 +0000 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Request for Embryology / Anatomy in Ayurveda In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <661B19CD3E570F4D995C9655E3EFA2B846522BB0@CNREXCMBX01P.core-res.rootcore.local> Dear Dhaval Patel, you could contact Amandine Wattelier-Bricout https://www.iran-inde.cnrs.fr/membres/membres-doctorants/wattelier-bricout-amandine.html?lang=fr (I am not sure whether she has sources for the Ayurveda, but you?ll see.) Best wishes, Agnes Korn From: INDOLOGY [mailto:indology-bounces at list.indology.info] On Behalf Of Dhaval Patel via INDOLOGY Sent: Saturday, October 05, 2019 12:44 PM To: indology at list.indology.info; bvparishat at googlegroups.com Subject: [INDOLOGY] Request for Embryology / Anatomy in Ayurveda Respected Scholars, While working on edition of a work, I am faced with a long Ayurvedic tract. Can any of you suggest me to 1. Suggested text for a beginner for embryology and anatomy in Ayurveda. 2. Any papers which discusses embryology and anatomy in Ayurveda. With regards, -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From drdhaval2785 at gmail.com Sat Oct 5 11:13:56 2019 From: drdhaval2785 at gmail.com (Dhaval Patel) Date: Sat, 05 Oct 19 16:43:56 +0530 Subject: =?utf-8?B?UmU6IFtJTkRPTE9HWV0ge+CkreCkvuCksOCkpOClgOCkr+CkteCkv+CkpuCljeCkteCkpOCljeCkquCksOCkv+Ckt+CkpOCljX0gUmVxdWVzdCBmb3IgRW1icnlvbG9neSAvIEFuYXRvbXkgaW4gQXl1cnZlZGE=?= In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sat, 5 Oct 2019, 16:14 Dhaval Patel, wrote: > Respected Scholars, > > While working on edition of a work, I am faced with a long Ayurvedic > tract. Can any of you suggest me to > > 1. Suggested text for a beginner for embryology and anatomy in Ayurveda. > 2. Any papers which discusses embryology and anatomy in Ayurveda. > > With regards, > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "???????????????????" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to bvparishat+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bvparishat/CADSGPzW2mq1D7-hQO73Szm0J-3c08NxUWQp7i909A4Dt0inZ%2Bw%40mail.gmail.com > > . > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From andra.kleb at gmail.com Sat Oct 5 13:55:04 2019 From: andra.kleb at gmail.com (andra.kleb at gmail.com) Date: Sat, 05 Oct 19 22:55:04 +0900 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Request for Embryology / Anatomy in Ayurveda In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <0909f4c6-3dc4-4e08-badf-50dac0f4023a@Spark> Dear Dr Patel, you will surely find the following extensive study very useful: @book{rpd_origin, ?Address = {Delhi}, ?Author = {Rahul Peter Das}, ?Publisher = {Motilal Banarsidass Publishers Private Limited}, ?Series = {Indical Medical Traditions, Vol. VI}, ?Title = {The Origin of the Life of a Human Being, Conception and the Female According to Ancient Indian Medical and Sexological Literature}, ?Year = {2003}} best, Andrey On Oct 5, 2019 19:45 +0900, Dhaval Patel via INDOLOGY , wrote: > Respected Scholars, > > While working on edition of a work, I am faced with a long Ayurvedic tract. Can any of you suggest me to > > 1. Suggested text for a beginner for embryology and anatomy in Ayurveda. > 2. Any papers which discusses embryology and anatomy in Ayurveda. > > With regards, > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ericmgurevitch at gmail.com Sat Oct 5 14:26:10 2019 From: ericmgurevitch at gmail.com (Eric Gurevitch) Date: Sat, 05 Oct 19 19:56:10 +0530 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Request for Embryology / Anatomy in Ayurveda In-Reply-To: <0909f4c6-3dc4-4e08-badf-50dac0f4023a@Spark> Message-ID: In addition to Rahul Peter Das's book just mentioned, the following article by Martha Selby is very informative and contains a good discussion of historiography. Selby, Martha Ann. ?Narratives of Conception, Gestation, and Labour in Sanskrit ?yurvedic Texts.? *Asian Medicine* 1, no. 2 (October 16, 2018): 254?75. https://doi.org/10.1163/157342105777996638. On Sat, Oct 5, 2019 at 7:26 PM Andrey Klebanov via INDOLOGY < indology at list.indology.info> wrote: > Dear Dr Patel, > > you will surely find the following extensive study very useful: > > @book{rpd_origin, > Address = {Delhi}, > Author = {Rahul Peter Das}, > Publisher = {Motilal Banarsidass Publishers Private Limited}, > Series = {Indical Medical Traditions, Vol. VI}, > Title = {The Origin of the Life of a Human Being, Conception and the > Female According to Ancient Indian Medical and Sexological Literature}, > Year = {2003}} > > > best, > Andrey > On Oct 5, 2019 19:45 +0900, Dhaval Patel via INDOLOGY < > indology at list.indology.info>, wrote: > > Respected Scholars, > > While working on edition of a work, I am faced with a long Ayurvedic > tract. Can any of you suggest me to > > 1. Suggested text for a beginner for embryology and anatomy in Ayurveda. > 2. Any papers which discusses embryology and anatomy in Ayurveda. > > With regards, > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing > committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or > unsubscribe) > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing > committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or > unsubscribe) > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From piotrbalcerowicz1 at gmail.com Sat Oct 5 15:37:38 2019 From: piotrbalcerowicz1 at gmail.com (Piotr Balcerowicz) Date: Sat, 05 Oct 19 21:07:38 +0530 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Logic and Belief in Indian Philosophy (2016) Message-ID: Dear Colleagues, The volume *Logic and Belief in Indian Philosophy* (Second Revised Edition, edited by Piotr Balcerowicz; originally published in 2010 and printed by Motilal Banarsidass from a wrong PDF file) is now also freely available at https://archive.org/details/logicandbeliefinindianphilosophy2016 Best regards, Piotr Balcerowicz ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ http://balcerowicz.eu/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From prajnapti at gmail.com Sat Oct 5 17:08:56 2019 From: prajnapti at gmail.com (Dan Lusthaus) Date: Sat, 05 Oct 19 13:08:56 -0400 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Request for Embryology / Anatomy in Ayurveda In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Some additional materials: ?Remarks on Some Interrelated Terms in the Ancient Indian Emrbyology.? Suneson, Carl Wiener Zeitschrift f?r die Kunde S?dasiens / Vienna Journal of South Asian Studies, 1 January 1991, Vol.35, pp.109-121 Embryology & maternity in ayurveda Dash, Bhagwan, 1934- / 1st ed. / New Delhi : Delhi Diary 1975 Paippalada's Garbhopanishad : a brief treatise of embryo & fetus : text with English translation and commentary 1st ed. / Varanasi : Chaukhambha Orientalia / (Jaikrishnadas Ayurveda series ; no. 143.) 2006 Also, the Caraka Sa?hit? has a section on embryology and related discussions in other sections. For beginners, there are a couple of readable English translations (one by Priyavrat Sharma; and the other by Vaidya Bhagwan Dash ; assisted by Kanchan Gupta). There is a book chapter by Robert Kritzer in Imagining the fetus: the unborn in myth, religion, and culture. Oxford; New York: Oxford University Press / (American Academy of Religion cultural criticism series.) /(American Academy of Religion religion and culture series) 2009, titled: ?Life in the Womb: Conception and Gestation in Buddhist Scripture and Classical Indian Medical Literature? Summary The classical Indian medical texts all contain detailed chapters on embryology, and many Indian religious works also discuss the topics of conception and gestation. Although much of the content of the medical and religious accounts is similar, the attitudes revealed are, not surprisingly, quite different; the medical treatises maintain a neutral tone and seek to promote the birth of healthy male babies, while the religious texts dwell on the suffering of both mother and fetus and on the undesirability of rebirth. The Buddhist Garbh?vakr?ntis?tra contains an unusual week-by-week account of gestation, which in this chapter is compared to a month-by-month account found in the medical text Carakasa?hit? . best, Dan -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From prajnapti at gmail.com Sat Oct 5 21:18:39 2019 From: prajnapti at gmail.com (Dan Lusthaus) Date: Sat, 05 Oct 19 17:18:39 -0400 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Request for Embryology / Anatomy in Ayurveda In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <87D602D6-E53F-4E63-B171-B5D743E3D0FE@gmail.com> Apologies. I neglected to include the editors/translators of the Garbhopani?ad edition and translation. They are Durga Prasad Dash and Chetan Kumar. Dan > On Oct 5, 2019, at 1:08 PM, Dan Lusthaus via INDOLOGY wrote: > > Paippalada's Garbhopanishad : a brief treatise of embryo & fetus : text with English translation and commentary > 1st ed. / Varanasi : Chaukhambha Orientalia / (Jaikrishnadas Ayurveda series ; no. 143.) > 2006 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mmdesh at umich.edu Sat Oct 5 22:03:00 2019 From: mmdesh at umich.edu (Madhav Deshpande) Date: Sat, 05 Oct 19 15:03:00 -0700 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Request for Embryology / Anatomy in Ayurveda In-Reply-To: <87D602D6-E53F-4E63-B171-B5D743E3D0FE@gmail.com> Message-ID: Not to forget the Buddhist text *Garbh?vakr?ntis?tra* "The S?tra on Entry into the Womb," edited and translated by Robert Kritzer, Studia Philologica Buddhica, Monograph Series XXXI, Tokyo, The International Institute for Buddhist Studies, 2014. Madhav M. Deshpande Professor Emeritus, Sanskrit and Linguistics University of Michigan, Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA Senior Fellow, Oxford Center for Hindu Studies [Residence: Campbell, California, USA] On Sat, Oct 5, 2019 at 2:19 PM Dan Lusthaus via INDOLOGY < indology at list.indology.info> wrote: > Apologies. I neglected to include the editors/translators of the > Garbhopani?ad edition and translation. They are Durga Prasad Dash and > Chetan Kumar. > Dan > > On Oct 5, 2019, at 1:08 PM, Dan Lusthaus via INDOLOGY < > indology at list.indology.info> wrote: > > *Paippalada's Garbhopanishad : a brief treatise of embryo & fetus : text > with English translation and commentary* > 1st ed. / Varanasi : Chaukhambha Orientalia / (Jaikrishnadas Ayurveda > series ; no. 143.) > 2006 > > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing > committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or > unsubscribe) > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From james.hartzell at gmail.com Sun Oct 6 10:57:19 2019 From: james.hartzell at gmail.com (James Hartzell) Date: Sun, 06 Oct 19 12:57:19 +0200 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Date of Candranandana Message-ID: Hi Does anyone have a definitive date for Candranandana, author of the commentary Am?tah?daya A????ga Guhyopade?atantra on V?gbha?a?s A????gah?daya (or A??h??gasa?hit?)? According to the Tibetan medical history tradition, as reported in "The Origin of the rGyud bzhi: A Tibetan Medical Tantra? by Todd Fenner (https://www.thlib.org/encyclopedias/literary/genres/genres-book.php#!book=/studies-in-genres/b27/dn3/), Vairocana studied with him in Kashmir, and translated this text into Tibetan, and presented it to King Trisong Detsen (Tibetan: ????????????????), who ruled (according to Wikipedia) 755 CE until 797 or 804 CE. Dr. Fenner?s history would place Candranandana in the late 8th century CE. Has this account been further confirmed? Cheers James -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From james.hartzell at gmail.com Sun Oct 6 11:20:41 2019 From: james.hartzell at gmail.com (James Hartzell) Date: Sun, 06 Oct 19 13:20:41 +0200 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Easy unicode for ipad? Message-ID: <02C1D08D-39EF-45E9-BF56-3FD9C7C1017F@gmail.com> ?Hi I promised an update on this quest for how to use diacritics with MS-Word on an iPad Pro with an Apple Smart (external) Keyboard. Thanks to Burkhard Quessel?s suggestion about the Text Replacement option, under Keyboards, under General, in Settings on the iPad, I have found one can create keyboard shortcuts for all the diacritics one needs. The method in the Text Replacement I found most simple is to select an existing diacritic combination, e.g., ?, from an existing text, or even from an internet page, and then just copy and paste that into the 'Phrase' line in the text replacement window, and then type in the shortcut one wants in the line below (the 'Shortcut' line). Just press the + sign in the upper right hand corner of the Text Replacement window to add a new shortcut. One can select existing shortcuts and edit them, or delete them by sliding to the left. One then just has to remember what new shortcuts one has created, just like learning any new keyboard layout. The only issues I've found (using a Spanish external keyboard) is that a) for the diacritic letter to take effect one has to either tap the screen or hit a return, and the software automatically inserts a carriage return, so one has to delete that to get back to the prior line and continue in the word one is editing---a mild hassle, but not too serious; b) for reasons not completely clear to me, some shortcut combinations don't work well, so one has to play around a bit and test things, c) typically one has to leave an space immediately after where one wants to insert the new diacritic letter, and then delete that space afterwards, since for some reason the software won't read the keyboard shortcut if there is already a letter immediately following where one wants to insert the diacritic; d) one also needs to remember what keyboard one has selected when one creates the shortcuts--I found that shortcuts created when the English keyboard is selected do not work when the Espa?ol keyboard is selected, etc. (this can also be an advantage in some situations). Despite these mild shortcomings, with a bit of practice I find it not too strenuous to edit existing text or type new text, and insert diacritics this way, permitting the convenient use of the iPad when desired. It also seems easier to create the full set of required shortcuts this way, rather than try to adapt the existing Apple Keyboards such as Hindi (Latin) that have, for Sanskrit, an incomplete set of diacritics. At the suggestion of one of the Apple support team I wrote to Apple tech support to request a full Sanskrit diacritics keyboard, though I don't expect they will implement such any time soon. Cheers and thanks again to all the Indology team members for their guidance. James > On 13 Aug 2019, at 08:41, James Hartzell wrote: > > ?Hello > > Has anyone found a way to type Sanskrit diacritics in MS-Word on the Ipad? > > So far my attempts have been fruitless. > > Cheers > James From mkapstei at uchicago.edu Sun Oct 6 12:55:07 2019 From: mkapstei at uchicago.edu (Matthew Kapstein) Date: Sun, 06 Oct 19 12:55:07 +0000 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Date of Candranandana In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Dear Jim, According to the catalogues of the Tibetan canon, the translation was done by Rin-chen-bzang-po (955-1054), and, because he also translated the root text, this seems likely to be correct. Although Vairocana of Pa-gor seems to have been a real 8th c. individual, it is very difficult to disentangle whatever is factual from the enormous body of legend that grew up around him. Because the Tibetan medical tantra, the Rgyud-bzhi (Four Tantras), is an apocryphon that claims its authority with reference to the period of the 8th c. monarch Khri srong lde'u btsan, it is not surprising that the "historical" tradition that developed around it would have wanted to appropriate other authorities as well. best, Matthew Matthew Kapstein Directeur d'?tudes, Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes Numata Visiting Professor of Buddhist Studies, The University of Chicago ________________________________ From: INDOLOGY on behalf of James Hartzell via INDOLOGY Sent: Sunday, October 6, 2019 5:57 AM To: Indology Subject: [INDOLOGY] Date of Candranandana Hi Does anyone have a definitive date for Candranandana, author of the commentary Am?tah?daya A????ga Guhyopade?atantra on V?gbha?a?s A????gah?daya (or A??h??gasa?hit?)? According to the Tibetan medical history tradition, as reported in "The Origin of the rGyud bzhi: A Tibetan Medical Tantra? by Todd Fenner (https://www.thlib.org/encyclopedias/literary/genres/genres-book.php#!book=/studies-in-genres/b27/dn3/), Vairocana studied with him in Kashmir, and translated this text into Tibetan, and presented it to King Trisong Detsen (Tibetan: ????????????????), who ruled (according to Wikipedia) 755 CE until 797 or 804 CE. Dr. Fenner?s history would place Candranandana in the late 8th century CE. Has this account been further confirmed? Cheers James -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mkapstei at uchicago.edu Sun Oct 6 13:12:27 2019 From: mkapstei at uchicago.edu (Matthew Kapstein) Date: Sun, 06 Oct 19 13:12:27 +0000 Subject: [INDOLOGY] question about a Jaina practice In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Dear Herman, Just a brief follow-up on the responses you have already received: The custom was taken over in Tibetan Buddhism, where the device became known as a sgom-thag, "meditation rope," though usually translated "meditation-belt." It features as part of the standard iconography of the Yogin-siant Milarepa, where it is usually drawn as a red strap thrown over his right shoulder, as here: https://www.himalayanart.org/items/19838 best, Matthew Matthew Kapstein Directeur d'?tudes, Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes Numata Visiting Professor of Buddhist Studies, The University of Chicago ________________________________ From: INDOLOGY on behalf of Tieken, H.J.H. via INDOLOGY Sent: Friday, October 4, 2019 4:47 AM To: Madhav Deshpande ; Olivelle, J P Cc: Indology Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] question about a Jaina practice I would like to thank Lubomir Ondracka, Patrick Olivelle, Madhav Deshpande, John Huntington, Sudalai Palaniappan, Rupert Gethin and Philip Maas for the information on the yogapa??a. I also hope that this contraption may be of use to Madhav Deshpande. Herman Herman Tieken Stationsweg 58 2515 BP Den Haag The Netherlands 00 31 (0)70 2208127 website: hermantieken.com ________________________________ Van: INDOLOGY [indology-bounces at list.indology.info] namens Madhav Deshpande via INDOLOGY [indology at list.indology.info] Verzonden: donderdag 3 oktober 2019 18:47 Aan: Olivelle, J P CC: Indology Onderwerp: Re: [INDOLOGY] question about a Jaina practice Thanks, Patrick, I now looked at all the images in the link provided by Lubomir. I am interested in something like this for personal use. Three months after my knee joint replacement surgery, I can now fold my legs for Yoga, but only with some discomfort. Perhaps, something like this Yogapa??a will be useful. Best, Madhav Madhav M. Deshpande Professor Emeritus, Sanskrit and Linguistics University of Michigan, Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA Senior Fellow, Oxford Center for Hindu Studies [Residence: Campbell, California, USA] On Thu, Oct 3, 2019 at 9:31 AM Olivelle, J P > wrote: If you look at the link given by Lubomir, you will see several images. On Oct 3, 2019, at 11:12 AM, Madhav Deshpande via INDOLOGY > wrote: Is there any pictorial description/representation of these assisting devices in iconography or Jain/Buddhist/Hindu Yoga practice? Madhav M. Deshpande Professor Emeritus, Sanskrit and Linguistics University of Michigan, Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA Senior Fellow, Oxford Center for Hindu Studies [Residence: Campbell, California, USA] On Thu, Oct 3, 2019 at 8:52 AM Rupert Gethin via INDOLOGY > wrote: Since it is appears not to be mentioned in the article cited by Lubomir or in Philipp?s article (forgive me if I have missed it), it is perhaps worth adding that this kind of strap is also mentioned in Pali sources where it is called ?yogapa??a. In the Visuddhimagga Buddhaghosa describes the ?sitter?s practice? (nesajjika?ga), the last in the list of 13 ascetic practices, as follows: 'This has three grades too. Herein, one who is strict is not allowed a back-rest or cloth band or binding-strap (?yogapa??a). The medium one is allowed any one of these three. The mild one is allowed a back-rest, a cloth band, a binding-strap, a cushion, a ?five-limb? and a ?seven-limb" [chair].? (After ???amoli, Path of Purification, II.74) Best wishes, Rupert -- Rupert Gethin University of Bristol Department of Religion and Theology 3 Woodland Road Bristol BS8 1TB, UK Email: Rupert.Gethin at bristol.ac.uk On 3 Oct 2019, at 16:39, Philipp Maas via INDOLOGY > wrote: Dear Herman, Further textual references to the use of a yoga strap in yoga literature can be found on p. 71 of my article "'Sthirasukham ?sanam': Posture and Performance in Classical Yoga and Beyond", which you find published in open-access here. Best wishes, Philipp __________________________ Dr. Philipp A. Maas Research Associate Institut f?r Indologie und Zentralasienwissenschaften Universit?t Leipzig ___________________________ https://spp1448.academia.edu/PhilippMaas [https://ipmcdn.avast.com/images/icons/icon-envelope-tick-round-orange-animated-no-repeat-v1.gif] Virenfrei. www.avast.com Am Do., 3. Okt. 2019 um 16:10 Uhr schrieb Tieken, H.J.H. via INDOLOGY >: Dear List members, Jaina monks, or their followers, are often depicted sitting with a strap going around their bodies and legs. (a few years ago I saw this contraption in a posh interior decorating shop in Leiden as an alternative chair!) Could anyone tell me if this strap, or sitting supported by this strap, had a (Sanskrit, MIA or NIA) name. By the way, it is not a particular Jaina practice. If I remember well, the strap can also be seen on, for instance, the Borobudur. Herman Herman Tieken Stationsweg 58 2515 BP Den Haag The Netherlands 00 31 (0)70 2208127 website: hermantieken.com _______________________________________________ INDOLOGY mailing list INDOLOGY at list.indology.info indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) _______________________________________________ INDOLOGY mailing list INDOLOGY at list.indology.info indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) _______________________________________________ INDOLOGY mailing list INDOLOGY at list.indology.info indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) _______________________________________________ INDOLOGY mailing list INDOLOGY at list.indology.info indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) This message is from an external sender. Learn more about why this << matters at https://links.utexas.edu/rtyclf. << -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From james.hartzell at gmail.com Sun Oct 6 14:35:38 2019 From: james.hartzell at gmail.com (James Hartzell) Date: Sun, 06 Oct 19 16:35:38 +0200 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Date of Candranandana In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <095A68EB-7D5B-46D6-8FDF-C895DEA1509C@gmail.com> Dear Matthew Thanks very much for the quick and clear explanation. Cheers James > On 6 Oct 2019, at 14:55, Matthew Kapstein wrote: > > ? > Dear Jim, > > According to the catalogues of the Tibetan canon, the translation was done by Rin-chen-bzang-po (955-1054), and, because he also translated the root text, this seems likely to be correct. > > Although Vairocana of Pa-gor seems to have been a real 8th c. individual, it is very difficult to disentangle whatever is factual from the enormous body of legend that grew up around him. Because the Tibetan medical tantra, the Rgyud-bzhi (Four Tantras), is an apocryphon that claims its authority with reference to the period of the 8th c. monarch Khri srong lde'u btsan, it is not surprising that the "historical" tradition that developed around it would have wanted to appropriate other authorities as well. > > best, > Matthew > > Matthew Kapstein > Directeur d'?tudes, > Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes > > Numata Visiting Professor of Buddhist Studies, > The University of Chicago > From: INDOLOGY on behalf of James Hartzell via INDOLOGY > Sent: Sunday, October 6, 2019 5:57 AM > To: Indology > Subject: [INDOLOGY] Date of Candranandana > > Hi > > Does anyone have a definitive date for Candranandana, author of the commentary Am?tah?daya A????ga Guhyopade?atantra on V?gbha?a?s A????gah?daya (or A??h??gasa?hit?)? According to the Tibetan medical history tradition, as reported in "The Origin of the rGyud bzhi: A Tibetan Medical Tantra? by Todd Fenner (https://www.thlib.org/encyclopedias/literary/genres/genres-book.php#!book=/studies-in-genres/b27/dn3/), Vairocana studied with him in Kashmir, and translated this text into Tibetan, and presented it to King Trisong Detsen (Tibetan: ????????????????), who ruled (according to Wikipedia) 755 CE until 797 or 804 CE. > > Dr. Fenner?s history would place Candranandana in the late 8th century CE. Has this account been further confirmed? > > Cheers > James -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From andra.kleb at gmail.com Sun Oct 6 16:15:02 2019 From: andra.kleb at gmail.com (andra.kleb at gmail.com) Date: Mon, 07 Oct 19 01:15:02 +0900 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Date of Candranandana In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <67ac9d05-33a6-45ba-9d83-81681b9c1892@Spark> Dear Dr Hartzell, The introductory verses to Candrananda?s commentary on the A????gah?dayasa?hit??call the text?Pad?rthacandrik? (not?Am?tah?daya A????ga Guhyopade?atantra ?!). See ?[?] pad?rthacandrik?? ??k?? [?] kari?y?mi ??? As far as I am aware, the assumed date of the Tibetan translation provides, indeed, the earliest terminus ante quem, but, as to now, one could not find any evidence to determine the terminus post quem?? that is, the TPQ is given merely by the composition of the root text. I heard from several scholars in India that they thought Candrananda hailed from Kashmir. I am not sure about the rationale behind this belief, but I guess that it is influenced by the Tibetan tradition. As for Sanskrit sources,?someone Candrananda?(the?Pad?rthacandrik??has not been published in its entirety yet, so we still don?t know if it?s the same Candra or not)?is often quoted by K??rasv?min (fl. ca. 11th cent.) in his commentary on the Amarako?a,?and one can also establish that Candra?s text exhibited significant influence on Indu?(fl. ca. 12th cent.). Both authors were most likely from Kashmir, which may supply some very weak evidence for connecting Candra with this region. best, Andrey On Oct 6, 2019 22:28 +0900, Matthew Kapstein via INDOLOGY , wrote: > Dear Jim, > > According to the catalogues of the Tibetan canon, the translation was done by Rin-chen-bzang-po (955-1054), and, because he also translated the root text, this seems likely to be correct. > > Although Vairocana of Pa-gor seems to have been a real 8th c. individual, it is very difficult to disentangle whatever is factual from the enormous body of legend that grew up around him. Because the Tibetan medical tantra, the Rgyud-bzhi (Four Tantras), is an apocryphon that claims its authority with reference to the period of the 8th c. monarch Khri srong lde'u btsan, it is not surprising that the "historical" tradition that developed around it would have wanted to appropriate other authorities as well. > > best, > Matthew > > Matthew Kapstein > Directeur d'?tudes, > Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes > > Numata Visiting Professor of Buddhist Studies, > The University of Chicago > From: INDOLOGY on behalf of James Hartzell via INDOLOGY > Sent: Sunday, October 6, 2019 5:57 AM > To: Indology > Subject: [INDOLOGY] Date of Candranandana > > Hi > > Does anyone have a definitive date for Candranandana, author of the commentary?Am?tah?daya A????ga Guhyopade?atantra on?V?gbha?a?s?A????gah?daya (or?A??h??gasa?hit?)? ?According to the Tibetan medical history tradition, as reported in "The Origin of the rGyud bzhi: A Tibetan Medical Tantra? by Todd Fenner?(https://www.thlib.org/encyclopedias/literary/genres/genres-book.php#!book=/studies-in-genres/b27/dn3/), Vairocana studied with him in Kashmir, and translated this text into Tibetan, and presented it to King Trisong Detsen (Tibetan: ????????????????), who ruled (according to Wikipedia) 755 CE until 797 or 804 CE. > > Dr. Fenner?s history would place Candranandana in the late 8th century CE. ?Has this account been further confirmed? > > Cheers > James > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mkapstei at uchicago.edu Sun Oct 6 16:57:17 2019 From: mkapstei at uchicago.edu (Matthew Kapstein) Date: Sun, 06 Oct 19 16:57:17 +0000 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Date of Candranandana In-Reply-To: <67ac9d05-33a6-45ba-9d83-81681b9c1892@Spark> Message-ID: Just to follow up on Andrey's comments: In the concluding verses in the Rin chen bzang po translation Candranandana states that he was born in Kashmir (kha che'i yul du skyes pa yin). The translator does not tell us where he studied or translated the text, but because Rin chen bzang po did work extensively in Kashmir, we may assume he did so there. Matthew Matthew Kapstein Directeur d'?tudes, Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes Numata Visiting Professor of Buddhist Studies, The University of Chicago ________________________________ From: andra.kleb at gmail.com Sent: Sunday, October 6, 2019 11:15 AM To: Indology ; James Hartzell ; Matthew Kapstein Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] Date of Candranandana Dear Dr Hartzell, The introductory verses to Candrananda?s commentary on the A????gah?dayasa?hit? call the text Pad?rthacandrik? (not Am?tah?daya A????ga Guhyopade?atantra ?!). See ?[?] pad?rthacandrik?? ??k?? [?] kari?y?mi ? ? As far as I am aware, the assumed date of the Tibetan translation provides, indeed, the earliest terminus ante quem, but, as to now, one could not find any evidence to determine the terminus post quem ? that is, the TPQ is given merely by the composition of the root text. I heard from several scholars in India that they thought Candrananda hailed from Kashmir. I am not sure about the rationale behind this belief, but I guess that it is influenced by the Tibetan tradition. As for Sanskrit sources, someone Candrananda (the Pad?rthacandrik? has not been published in its entirety yet, so we still don?t know if it?s the same Candra or not) is often quoted by K??rasv?min (fl. ca. 11th cent.) in his commentary on the Amarako?a, and one can also establish that Candra?s text exhibited significant influence on Indu (fl. ca. 12th cent.). Both authors were most likely from Kashmir, which may supply some very weak evidence for connecting Candra with this region. best, Andrey On Oct 6, 2019 22:28 +0900, Matthew Kapstein via INDOLOGY , wrote: Dear Jim, According to the catalogues of the Tibetan canon, the translation was done by Rin-chen-bzang-po (955-1054), and, because he also translated the root text, this seems likely to be correct. Although Vairocana of Pa-gor seems to have been a real 8th c. individual, it is very difficult to disentangle whatever is factual from the enormous body of legend that grew up around him. Because the Tibetan medical tantra, the Rgyud-bzhi (Four Tantras), is an apocryphon that claims its authority with reference to the period of the 8th c. monarch Khri srong lde'u btsan, it is not surprising that the "historical" tradition that developed around it would have wanted to appropriate other authorities as well. best, Matthew Matthew Kapstein Directeur d'?tudes, Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes Numata Visiting Professor of Buddhist Studies, The University of Chicago ________________________________ From: INDOLOGY on behalf of James Hartzell via INDOLOGY Sent: Sunday, October 6, 2019 5:57 AM To: Indology Subject: [INDOLOGY] Date of Candranandana Hi Does anyone have a definitive date for Candranandana, author of the commentary Am?tah?daya A????ga Guhyopade?atantra on V?gbha?a?s A????gah?daya (or A??h??gasa?hit?)? According to the Tibetan medical history tradition, as reported in "The Origin of the rGyud bzhi: A Tibetan Medical Tantra? by Todd Fenner (https://www.thlib.org/encyclopedias/literary/genres/genres-book.php#!book=/studies-in-genres/b27/dn3/), Vairocana studied with him in Kashmir, and translated this text into Tibetan, and presented it to King Trisong Detsen (Tibetan: ????????????????), who ruled (according to Wikipedia) 755 CE until 797 or 804 CE. Dr. Fenner?s history would place Candranandana in the late 8th century CE. Has this account been further confirmed? Cheers James _______________________________________________ INDOLOGY mailing list INDOLOGY at list.indology.info indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dmagier at Princeton.EDU Sun Oct 6 22:38:03 2019 From: dmagier at Princeton.EDU (David S. Magier) Date: Sun, 06 Oct 19 22:38:03 +0000 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Launch of South Asia Open Archives (SAOA) Message-ID: <03CB35F3-50E6-4DBC-96BB-D79096053742@princeton.edu> Dear Indology colleagues, I have been asked to forward this announcement to our list. Many of your institutions have participated in the creation of SAOA. Best, David Magier ________________ David Magier PhD Associate University Librarian for Scholarly Collections & Research Services Princeton University Library A-19-H2 Firestone Library One Washington Road Princeton, NJ 08544 609-258-5710 609-258-6950 fax dmagier at princeton.edu ================= Begin forwarded message: From: Aruna Magier > Subject: Launch of South Asia Open Archives (SAOA) Date: October 6, 2019 at 3:30:08 PM EDT To: David Magier > Cc: David Faust > Dear Colleagues, We are excited to invite you to the public launch of the South Asia Open Archives online! The launch takes place at The Annual Conference on South Asia in Madison on Friday, October 18 from 12:15-1:45pm Central. The launch event will be held at University Room AB of the Concourse Hotel (second floor) from 12:15 pm to 1:45 pm Central Time. Light snacks and refreshments will be available. (Even if you can?t attend, the SAOA URL ? saoa.crl.edu -- will go live on that date as well.) South Asia Open Archives (SAOA) is a rich and growing curated collection of key research materials from and about the region of South Asia, with historical and contemporary sources covering a variety of subjects in English and other South Asian languages. SAOA preserves, digitizes and makes its content freely accessible to the world on the web. It is the product of a collaborative initiative of a broad consortium of research libraries (in South Asia and around the world) and their respective South Asian Studies librarians. It is enriched by substantial contributions of content, human and material resources from a community of libraries, research centers, archives and other institutions partnering to bring these resources out for global scholarship and pedagogy. Administratively hosted by the Center for Research Libraries (CRL), and presented online for open access in partnership with JSTOR/Ithaka, SAOA aims to serve as a critical node in open access scholarship. The culmination of five years of intensive work by a dedicated core of stakeholders and widespread partners, the SAOA launch at Madison will feature live demonstrations of SAOA?s enhanced database functionalities, and will highlight some of our unique historical collections, with time for questions, one-on-one interactions, and opportunities for hands-on exploration. The event is open to all interested parties, so please spread the word among faculty, scholars, students and librarians at your institution. As we prepare for this exciting event, the SAOA Executive Board wants to acknowledge that SAOA?s impressive progress wouldn?t have been possible without the active moral and material support for and engagement in this initiative by many of you and your institutions. Please feel free to contact us (or SAOA?s Digital Librarian Neel Agrawal (nagarawal at crl.edu) if you have any questions or suggestions. If you have specific content ideas for adding to SAOA?s collection, please use this online suggestion form. Thanks so much and looking forward to seeing you at the SAOA launch event in Madison! Best regards, Aruna Magier (NYU) and David Faust (University of Minnesota) Co-Chairs of SAOA _________________________________ Aruna P. Magier, PhD, MLS (she/her/hers) Librarian for South Asian Studies & International Relations New York University Room #1M-02 Elmer H. Bobst Library 70 Washington Square South New York, NY 10012 212-992-7548 aruna.magier at nyu.edu http://guides.nyu.edu/southasia http://guides.nyu.edu/southasiandiaspora http://guides.nyu.edu/IR -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From drdhaval2785 at gmail.com Mon Oct 7 03:12:46 2019 From: drdhaval2785 at gmail.com (Dhaval Patel) Date: Mon, 07 Oct 19 08:42:46 +0530 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Request for Embryology / Anatomy in Ayurveda Message-ID: I am grateful to all scholars for their help. With regards, -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From christophe.vielle at uclouvain.be Mon Oct 7 06:47:26 2019 From: christophe.vielle at uclouvain.be (Christophe Vielle) Date: Mon, 07 Oct 19 06:47:26 +0000 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Request for Embryology / Anatomy in Ayurveda In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <84277E36-4657-4C03-8629-C22A3254BE60@uclouvain.be> There is an extensive comparison of Puranic + Y?j?avalkyasm?ti (3, 72-82) and com. + Ayurvedic + Garbhopanishad parallel passages on embryology and anatomy (with comparative tables) in Sandra SMETS, La question de la non-dualit? dans la Jaimin?yasa?hit? du Brahm???apur??a : Le Janakapra?na, ?dit?, traduit et comment?, Leuven - Louvain-la-Neuve: Peeters (Publications de l?Institut orientaliste de Louvain 63), 2013, pp. 129-220 ToC available here: http://www.peeters-leuven.be/boekoverz.asp?nr=9120 Le 6 oct. 2019 ? 00:03, Madhav Deshpande via INDOLOGY > a ?crit : Not to forget the Buddhist text Garbh?vakr?ntis?tra "The S?tra on Entry into the Womb," edited and translated by Robert Kritzer, Studia Philologica Buddhica, Monograph Series XXXI, Tokyo, The International Institute for Buddhist Studies, 2014. Madhav M. Deshpande Professor Emeritus, Sanskrit and Linguistics University of Michigan, Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA Senior Fellow, Oxford Center for Hindu Studies [Residence: Campbell, California, USA] On Sat, Oct 5, 2019 at 2:19 PM Dan Lusthaus via INDOLOGY > wrote: Apologies. I neglected to include the editors/translators of the Garbhopani?ad edition and translation. They are Durga Prasad Dash and Chetan Kumar. Dan On Oct 5, 2019, at 1:08 PM, Dan Lusthaus via INDOLOGY > wrote: Paippalada's Garbhopanishad : a brief treatise of embryo & fetus : text with English translation and commentary 1st ed. / Varanasi : Chaukhambha Orientalia / (Jaikrishnadas Ayurveda series ; no. 143.) 2006 _______________________________________________ INDOLOGY mailing list INDOLOGY at list.indology.info indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) _______________________________________________ INDOLOGY mailing list INDOLOGY at list.indology.info indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Flistinfo.indology.info&data=02%7C01%7C%7Cde02ea6a3c7b49f86f6508d749dffada%7C7ab090d4fa2e4ecfbc7c4127b4d582ec%7C0%7C0%7C637059098644648286&sdata=mR8pKm5177kS2LWDsbnTf2me3Cj7N4bhmtwdq62aGUA%3D&reserved=0 (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) ??????????????????? Christophe Vielle Louvain-la-Neuve -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From james.hartzell at gmail.com Mon Oct 7 18:51:34 2019 From: james.hartzell at gmail.com (James Hartzell) Date: Mon, 07 Oct 19 20:51:34 +0200 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Date of Candranandana In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Do we have any idea of when Candranandana himself may have lived? On Sun, Oct 6, 2019 at 6:57 PM Matthew Kapstein wrote: > Just to follow up on Andrey's comments: > In the concluding verses in the Rin chen bzang po translation > Candranandana states that he was born in Kashmir (kha che'i yul du skyes pa > yin). The translator does not tell us where he studied or translated the > text, but because Rin chen bzang po did work extensively in Kashmir, we may > assume he did so there. > > Matthew > > Matthew Kapstein > Directeur d'?tudes, > Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes > > Numata Visiting Professor of Buddhist Studies, > The University of Chicago > ------------------------------ > *From:* andra.kleb at gmail.com > *Sent:* Sunday, October 6, 2019 11:15 AM > *To:* Indology ; James Hartzell < > james.hartzell at gmail.com>; Matthew Kapstein > *Subject:* Re: [INDOLOGY] Date of Candranandana > > Dear Dr Hartzell, > > The introductory verses to Candrananda?s commentary on the > *A????gah?dayasa?hit?* call the text *Pad?rthacandrik?* (not *Am?tah?daya > A????ga Guhyopade?atantra* ?!). See ?[?] pad?rthacandrik?? ??k?? [?] > kari?y?mi ? ? > > As far as I am aware, the assumed date of the Tibetan translation > provides, indeed, the earliest *terminus ante quem*, but, as to now, one > could not find any evidence to determine the *terminus post quem* ? that > is, the TPQ is given merely by the composition of the root text. > I heard from several scholars in India that they thought Candrananda > hailed from Kashmir. I am not sure about the rationale behind this belief, > but I guess that it is influenced by the Tibetan tradition. As for Sanskrit > sources, someone Candrananda (the *Pad?rthacandrik? *has not been > published in its entirety yet, so we still don?t know if it?s the same > Candra or not) is often quoted by K??rasv?min (fl. ca. 11th cent.) in his > commentary on the *Amarako?a*, and one can also establish that Candra?s > text exhibited significant influence on Indu (fl. ca. 12th cent.). Both > authors were most likely from Kashmir, which may supply some very weak > evidence for connecting Candra with this region. > > best, > Andrey > On Oct 6, 2019 22:28 +0900, Matthew Kapstein via INDOLOGY < > indology at list.indology.info>, wrote: > > Dear Jim, > > According to the catalogues of the Tibetan canon, the translation was done > by Rin-chen-bzang-po (955-1054), and, because he also translated the root > text, this seems likely to be correct. > > Although Vairocana of Pa-gor seems to have been a real 8th c. individual, > it is very difficult to disentangle whatever is factual from the enormous > body of legend that grew up around him. Because the Tibetan medical tantra, > the Rgyud-bzhi (Four Tantras), is an apocryphon that claims its authority > with reference to the period of the 8th c. monarch Khri srong lde'u btsan, > it is not surprising that the "historical" tradition that developed around > it would have wanted to appropriate other authorities as well. > > best, > Matthew > > Matthew Kapstein > Directeur d'?tudes, > Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes > > Numata Visiting Professor of Buddhist Studies, > The University of Chicago > ------------------------------ > *From:* INDOLOGY on behalf of James > Hartzell via INDOLOGY > *Sent:* Sunday, October 6, 2019 5:57 AM > *To:* Indology > *Subject:* [INDOLOGY] Date of Candranandana > > Hi > > Does anyone have a definitive date for Candranandana, author of the > commentary *Am?tah?daya A????ga Guhyopade?atantra* on V?gbha?a?s > *A????gah?daya* (or *A??h??gasa?hit?*)? According to the Tibetan medical > history tradition, as reported in "The Origin of the rGyud bzhi: A Tibetan > Medical Tantra? by Todd Fenner ( > https://www.thlib.org/encyclopedias/literary/genres/genres-book.php#!book=/studies-in-genres/b27/dn3/), > Vairocana studied with him in Kashmir, and translated this text into > Tibetan, and presented it to King Trisong Detsen (Tibetan: ????????????????), > who ruled (according to Wikipedia) 755 CE until 797 or 804 CE. > > Dr. Fenner?s history would place Candranandana in the late 8th century > CE. Has this account been further confirmed? > > Cheers > James > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing > committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or > unsubscribe) > > -- James Hartzell, PhD Basque Center on Cognition, Brain and Language (BCBL), Donostia, Spain Center for Mind/Brain Sciences (CIMeC), The University of Trento, Italy Center for Buddhist Studies, Columbia University, USA -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mkapstei at uchicago.edu Mon Oct 7 19:16:28 2019 From: mkapstei at uchicago.edu (Matthew Kapstein) Date: Mon, 07 Oct 19 19:16:28 +0000 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Date of Candranandana In-Reply-To: Message-ID: All we can say is that he must have lived after VAgbhaTa and before ca. 1000. His concluding verses do mention a king, but I cannot correlate the name as given in Tibetan - Tha ga na - with anyone in the lists of Kashmiri kings with which I am familiar. Matthew Kapstein Directeur d'?tudes, Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes Numata Visiting Professor of Buddhist Studies, The University of Chicago ________________________________ From: James Hartzell Sent: Monday, October 7, 2019 1:51 PM To: Matthew Kapstein Cc: andra.kleb at gmail.com ; Indology Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] Date of Candranandana Do we have any idea of when Candranandana himself may have lived? On Sun, Oct 6, 2019 at 6:57 PM Matthew Kapstein > wrote: Just to follow up on Andrey's comments: In the concluding verses in the Rin chen bzang po translation Candranandana states that he was born in Kashmir (kha che'i yul du skyes pa yin). The translator does not tell us where he studied or translated the text, but because Rin chen bzang po did work extensively in Kashmir, we may assume he did so there. Matthew Matthew Kapstein Directeur d'?tudes, Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes Numata Visiting Professor of Buddhist Studies, The University of Chicago ________________________________ From: andra.kleb at gmail.com > Sent: Sunday, October 6, 2019 11:15 AM To: Indology >; James Hartzell >; Matthew Kapstein > Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] Date of Candranandana Dear Dr Hartzell, The introductory verses to Candrananda?s commentary on the A????gah?dayasa?hit? call the text Pad?rthacandrik? (not Am?tah?daya A????ga Guhyopade?atantra ?!). See ?[?] pad?rthacandrik?? ??k?? [?] kari?y?mi ? ? As far as I am aware, the assumed date of the Tibetan translation provides, indeed, the earliest terminus ante quem, but, as to now, one could not find any evidence to determine the terminus post quem ? that is, the TPQ is given merely by the composition of the root text. I heard from several scholars in India that they thought Candrananda hailed from Kashmir. I am not sure about the rationale behind this belief, but I guess that it is influenced by the Tibetan tradition. As for Sanskrit sources, someone Candrananda (the Pad?rthacandrik? has not been published in its entirety yet, so we still don?t know if it?s the same Candra or not) is often quoted by K??rasv?min (fl. ca. 11th cent.) in his commentary on the Amarako?a, and one can also establish that Candra?s text exhibited significant influence on Indu (fl. ca. 12th cent.). Both authors were most likely from Kashmir, which may supply some very weak evidence for connecting Candra with this region. best, Andrey On Oct 6, 2019 22:28 +0900, Matthew Kapstein via INDOLOGY >, wrote: Dear Jim, According to the catalogues of the Tibetan canon, the translation was done by Rin-chen-bzang-po (955-1054), and, because he also translated the root text, this seems likely to be correct. Although Vairocana of Pa-gor seems to have been a real 8th c. individual, it is very difficult to disentangle whatever is factual from the enormous body of legend that grew up around him. Because the Tibetan medical tantra, the Rgyud-bzhi (Four Tantras), is an apocryphon that claims its authority with reference to the period of the 8th c. monarch Khri srong lde'u btsan, it is not surprising that the "historical" tradition that developed around it would have wanted to appropriate other authorities as well. best, Matthew Matthew Kapstein Directeur d'?tudes, Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes Numata Visiting Professor of Buddhist Studies, The University of Chicago ________________________________ From: INDOLOGY > on behalf of James Hartzell via INDOLOGY > Sent: Sunday, October 6, 2019 5:57 AM To: Indology > Subject: [INDOLOGY] Date of Candranandana Hi Does anyone have a definitive date for Candranandana, author of the commentary Am?tah?daya A????ga Guhyopade?atantra on V?gbha?a?s A????gah?daya (or A??h??gasa?hit?)? According to the Tibetan medical history tradition, as reported in "The Origin of the rGyud bzhi: A Tibetan Medical Tantra? by Todd Fenner (https://www.thlib.org/encyclopedias/literary/genres/genres-book.php#!book=/studies-in-genres/b27/dn3/), Vairocana studied with him in Kashmir, and translated this text into Tibetan, and presented it to King Trisong Detsen (Tibetan: ????????????????), who ruled (according to Wikipedia) 755 CE until 797 or 804 CE. Dr. Fenner?s history would place Candranandana in the late 8th century CE. Has this account been further confirmed? Cheers James _______________________________________________ INDOLOGY mailing list INDOLOGY at list.indology.info indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) -- James Hartzell, PhD Basque Center on Cognition, Brain and Language (BCBL), Donostia, Spain Center for Mind/Brain Sciences (CIMeC), The University of Trento, Italy Center for Buddhist Studies, Columbia University, USA -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From james.hartzell at gmail.com Mon Oct 7 20:27:04 2019 From: james.hartzell at gmail.com (James Hartzell) Date: Mon, 07 Oct 19 22:27:04 +0200 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Date of Candranandana In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Thanks Matthew. I will keep the name of king Tha ga na in reference in case I come across anything that would help explain what his Kashmiri name was. Cheers James On Mon, Oct 7, 2019 at 9:16 PM Matthew Kapstein wrote: > All we can say is that he must have lived after VAgbhaTa and before ca. > 1000. > His concluding verses do mention a king, but I cannot correlate the name > as given in Tibetan - Tha ga na - with anyone in the lists of Kashmiri > kings with which I am familiar. > > Matthew Kapstein > Directeur d'?tudes, > Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes > > Numata Visiting Professor of Buddhist Studies, > The University of Chicago > ------------------------------ > *From:* James Hartzell > *Sent:* Monday, October 7, 2019 1:51 PM > *To:* Matthew Kapstein > *Cc:* andra.kleb at gmail.com ; Indology < > indology at list.indology.info> > *Subject:* Re: [INDOLOGY] Date of Candranandana > > Do we have any idea of when Candranandana himself may have lived? > > On Sun, Oct 6, 2019 at 6:57 PM Matthew Kapstein > wrote: > > Just to follow up on Andrey's comments: > In the concluding verses in the Rin chen bzang po translation > Candranandana states that he was born in Kashmir (kha che'i yul du skyes pa > yin). The translator does not tell us where he studied or translated the > text, but because Rin chen bzang po did work extensively in Kashmir, we may > assume he did so there. > > Matthew > > Matthew Kapstein > Directeur d'?tudes, > Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes > > Numata Visiting Professor of Buddhist Studies, > The University of Chicago > ------------------------------ > *From:* andra.kleb at gmail.com > *Sent:* Sunday, October 6, 2019 11:15 AM > *To:* Indology ; James Hartzell < > james.hartzell at gmail.com>; Matthew Kapstein > *Subject:* Re: [INDOLOGY] Date of Candranandana > > Dear Dr Hartzell, > > The introductory verses to Candrananda?s commentary on the * > A????gah?dayasa?hit?* call the text *Pad?rthacandrik?* (not *Am?tah?daya > A????ga Guhyopade?atantra* ?!). See ?[?] pad?rthacandrik?? ??k?? [?] > kari?y?mi ? ? > > As far as I am aware, the assumed date of the Tibetan translation > provides, indeed, the earliest *terminus ante quem*, but, as to now, one > could not find any evidence to determine the *terminus post quem* ? that > is, the TPQ is given merely by the composition of the root text. > I heard from several scholars in India that they thought Candrananda > hailed from Kashmir. I am not sure about the rationale behind this belief, > but I guess that it is influenced by the Tibetan tradition. As for Sanskrit > sources, someone Candrananda (the *Pad?rthacandrik? *has not been > published in its entirety yet, so we still don?t know if it?s the same > Candra or not) is often quoted by K??rasv?min (fl. ca. 11th cent.) in his > commentary on the *Amarako?a*, and one can also establish that Candra?s > text exhibited significant influence on Indu (fl. ca. 12th cent.). Both > authors were most likely from Kashmir, which may supply some very weak > evidence for connecting Candra with this region. > > best, > Andrey > On Oct 6, 2019 22:28 +0900, Matthew Kapstein via INDOLOGY < > indology at list.indology.info>, wrote: > > Dear Jim, > > According to the catalogues of the Tibetan canon, the translation was done > by Rin-chen-bzang-po (955-1054), and, because he also translated the root > text, this seems likely to be correct. > > Although Vairocana of Pa-gor seems to have been a real 8th c. individual, > it is very difficult to disentangle whatever is factual from the enormous > body of legend that grew up around him. Because the Tibetan medical tantra, > the Rgyud-bzhi (Four Tantras), is an apocryphon that claims its authority > with reference to the period of the 8th c. monarch Khri srong lde'u btsan, > it is not surprising that the "historical" tradition that developed around > it would have wanted to appropriate other authorities as well. > > best, > Matthew > > Matthew Kapstein > Directeur d'?tudes, > Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes > > Numata Visiting Professor of Buddhist Studies, > The University of Chicago > ------------------------------ > *From:* INDOLOGY on behalf of James > Hartzell via INDOLOGY > *Sent:* Sunday, October 6, 2019 5:57 AM > *To:* Indology > *Subject:* [INDOLOGY] Date of Candranandana > > Hi > > Does anyone have a definitive date for Candranandana, author of the > commentary *Am?tah?daya A????ga Guhyopade?atantra* on V?gbha?a?s > *A????gah?daya* (or *A??h??gasa?hit?*)? According to the Tibetan medical > history tradition, as reported in "The Origin of the rGyud bzhi: A Tibetan > Medical Tantra? by Todd Fenner ( > https://www.thlib.org/encyclopedias/literary/genres/genres-book.php#!book=/studies-in-genres/b27/dn3/), > Vairocana studied with him in Kashmir, and translated this text into > Tibetan, and presented it to King Trisong Detsen (Tibetan: ????????????????), > who ruled (according to Wikipedia) 755 CE until 797 or 804 CE. > > Dr. Fenner?s history would place Candranandana in the late 8th century > CE. Has this account been further confirmed? > > Cheers > James > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing > committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or > unsubscribe) > > > > -- > James Hartzell, PhD > Basque Center on Cognition, Brain and Language (BCBL), Donostia, Spain > Center for Mind/Brain Sciences (CIMeC), The University of Trento, Italy > Center for Buddhist Studies, Columbia University, USA > > -- James Hartzell, PhD Basque Center on Cognition, Brain and Language (BCBL), Donostia, Spain Center for Mind/Brain Sciences (CIMeC), The University of Trento, Italy Center for Buddhist Studies, Columbia University, USA -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mkapstei at uchicago.edu Mon Oct 7 21:00:29 2019 From: mkapstei at uchicago.edu (Matthew Kapstein) Date: Mon, 07 Oct 19 21:00:29 +0000 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Date of Candranandana In-Reply-To: Message-ID: btw, Tha ga na is not actually a Tibetan name. It figures among the names of the mahsiddhas, where it is a Tibetan transcription of an MIA form of Sthagana, the Liar. What on earth it's doing as a Kashmiri king's name beats me. Matthew Kapstein Directeur d'?tudes, Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes Numata Visiting Professor of Buddhist Studies, The University of Chicago ________________________________ From: James Hartzell Sent: Monday, October 7, 2019 3:27 PM To: Matthew Kapstein Cc: andra.kleb at gmail.com ; Indology Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] Date of Candranandana Thanks Matthew. I will keep the name of king Tha ga na in reference in case I come across anything that would help explain what his Kashmiri name was. Cheers James On Mon, Oct 7, 2019 at 9:16 PM Matthew Kapstein > wrote: All we can say is that he must have lived after VAgbhaTa and before ca. 1000. His concluding verses do mention a king, but I cannot correlate the name as given in Tibetan - Tha ga na - with anyone in the lists of Kashmiri kings with which I am familiar. Matthew Kapstein Directeur d'?tudes, Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes Numata Visiting Professor of Buddhist Studies, The University of Chicago ________________________________ From: James Hartzell > Sent: Monday, October 7, 2019 1:51 PM To: Matthew Kapstein > Cc: andra.kleb at gmail.com >; Indology > Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] Date of Candranandana Do we have any idea of when Candranandana himself may have lived? On Sun, Oct 6, 2019 at 6:57 PM Matthew Kapstein > wrote: Just to follow up on Andrey's comments: In the concluding verses in the Rin chen bzang po translation Candranandana states that he was born in Kashmir (kha che'i yul du skyes pa yin). The translator does not tell us where he studied or translated the text, but because Rin chen bzang po did work extensively in Kashmir, we may assume he did so there. Matthew Matthew Kapstein Directeur d'?tudes, Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes Numata Visiting Professor of Buddhist Studies, The University of Chicago ________________________________ From: andra.kleb at gmail.com > Sent: Sunday, October 6, 2019 11:15 AM To: Indology >; James Hartzell >; Matthew Kapstein > Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] Date of Candranandana Dear Dr Hartzell, The introductory verses to Candrananda?s commentary on the A????gah?dayasa?hit? call the text Pad?rthacandrik? (not Am?tah?daya A????ga Guhyopade?atantra ?!). See ?[?] pad?rthacandrik?? ??k?? [?] kari?y?mi ? ? As far as I am aware, the assumed date of the Tibetan translation provides, indeed, the earliest terminus ante quem, but, as to now, one could not find any evidence to determine the terminus post quem ? that is, the TPQ is given merely by the composition of the root text. I heard from several scholars in India that they thought Candrananda hailed from Kashmir. I am not sure about the rationale behind this belief, but I guess that it is influenced by the Tibetan tradition. As for Sanskrit sources, someone Candrananda (the Pad?rthacandrik? has not been published in its entirety yet, so we still don?t know if it?s the same Candra or not) is often quoted by K??rasv?min (fl. ca. 11th cent.) in his commentary on the Amarako?a, and one can also establish that Candra?s text exhibited significant influence on Indu (fl. ca. 12th cent.). Both authors were most likely from Kashmir, which may supply some very weak evidence for connecting Candra with this region. best, Andrey On Oct 6, 2019 22:28 +0900, Matthew Kapstein via INDOLOGY >, wrote: Dear Jim, According to the catalogues of the Tibetan canon, the translation was done by Rin-chen-bzang-po (955-1054), and, because he also translated the root text, this seems likely to be correct. Although Vairocana of Pa-gor seems to have been a real 8th c. individual, it is very difficult to disentangle whatever is factual from the enormous body of legend that grew up around him. Because the Tibetan medical tantra, the Rgyud-bzhi (Four Tantras), is an apocryphon that claims its authority with reference to the period of the 8th c. monarch Khri srong lde'u btsan, it is not surprising that the "historical" tradition that developed around it would have wanted to appropriate other authorities as well. best, Matthew Matthew Kapstein Directeur d'?tudes, Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes Numata Visiting Professor of Buddhist Studies, The University of Chicago ________________________________ From: INDOLOGY > on behalf of James Hartzell via INDOLOGY > Sent: Sunday, October 6, 2019 5:57 AM To: Indology > Subject: [INDOLOGY] Date of Candranandana Hi Does anyone have a definitive date for Candranandana, author of the commentary Am?tah?daya A????ga Guhyopade?atantra on V?gbha?a?s A????gah?daya (or A??h??gasa?hit?)? According to the Tibetan medical history tradition, as reported in "The Origin of the rGyud bzhi: A Tibetan Medical Tantra? by Todd Fenner (https://www.thlib.org/encyclopedias/literary/genres/genres-book.php#!book=/studies-in-genres/b27/dn3/), Vairocana studied with him in Kashmir, and translated this text into Tibetan, and presented it to King Trisong Detsen (Tibetan: ????????????????), who ruled (according to Wikipedia) 755 CE until 797 or 804 CE. Dr. Fenner?s history would place Candranandana in the late 8th century CE. Has this account been further confirmed? Cheers James _______________________________________________ INDOLOGY mailing list INDOLOGY at list.indology.info indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) -- James Hartzell, PhD Basque Center on Cognition, Brain and Language (BCBL), Donostia, Spain Center for Mind/Brain Sciences (CIMeC), The University of Trento, Italy Center for Buddhist Studies, Columbia University, USA -- James Hartzell, PhD Basque Center on Cognition, Brain and Language (BCBL), Donostia, Spain Center for Mind/Brain Sciences (CIMeC), The University of Trento, Italy Center for Buddhist Studies, Columbia University, USA -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From andra.kleb at gmail.com Mon Oct 7 23:23:44 2019 From: andra.kleb at gmail.com (andra.kleb at gmail.com) Date: Tue, 08 Oct 19 08:23:44 +0900 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Date of Candranandana In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <70ea1f3f-c43d-4ce2-b314-466ed30b7fde@Spark> It?s ?akunadeva in Sanskrit: pra?amya devadeve?a? hari? v??nidhim ak?aram/ pad?rthacandrik?? ??k?? ?ubhr?? sarvahit?vah?m//1// ?r?macchakunadevena prerito h?daye sphu?am/ buddhy? kari?y?mi guro? sa?sm?tya cara??mbujam//2// best, Andrey 8 ???. 2019 ?., 06:00 +0900, Matthew Kapstein , ?????: > btw, Tha ga na is not actually a Tibetan name. It figures among the names of the mahsiddhas, where it is a Tibetan transcription of an MIA form of Sthagana, the Liar. What on earth it's doing as a Kashmiri king's name beats me. > > Matthew Kapstein > Directeur d'?tudes, > Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes > > Numata Visiting Professor of Buddhist Studies, > The University of Chicago > From: James Hartzell > Sent: Monday, October 7, 2019 3:27 PM > To: Matthew Kapstein > Cc: andra.kleb at gmail.com ; Indology > Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] Date of Candranandana > > Thanks Matthew.? I will keep the name of king Tha ga na in reference in case I come across anything that would help explain what his Kashmiri name was. > Cheers > James > > On Mon, Oct 7, 2019 at 9:16 PM Matthew Kapstein wrote: > > All we can say is that he must have lived after VAgbhaTa and before ca. 1000. > > His concluding verses do mention a king, but I cannot correlate the name as given in Tibetan - Tha ga na - with anyone in the lists of Kashmiri kings with which I am familiar. > > > > Matthew Kapstein > > Directeur d'?tudes, > > Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes > > > > Numata Visiting Professor of Buddhist Studies, > > The University of Chicago > > From: James Hartzell > > Sent: Monday, October 7, 2019 1:51 PM > > To: Matthew Kapstein > > Cc: andra.kleb at gmail.com ; Indology > > Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] Date of Candranandana > > > > Do we have any idea of when Candranandana himself may have lived? > > > > On Sun, Oct 6, 2019 at 6:57 PM Matthew Kapstein wrote: > > > Just to follow up on Andrey's comments: > > > In the concluding verses in the Rin chen bzang po translation Candranandana states that he was born in Kashmir (kha che'i yul du skyes pa yin). The translator does not tell us where he studied or translated the text, but because Rin chen bzang po did work extensively in Kashmir, we may assume he did so there. > > > > > > Matthew > > > > > > Matthew Kapstein > > > Directeur d'?tudes, > > > Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes > > > > > > Numata Visiting Professor of Buddhist Studies, > > > The University of Chicago > > > From: andra.kleb at gmail.com > > > Sent: Sunday, October 6, 2019 11:15 AM > > > To: Indology ; James Hartzell ; Matthew Kapstein > > > Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] Date of Candranandana > > > > > > Dear Dr Hartzell, > > > > > > The introductory verses to Candrananda?s commentary on the A????gah?dayasa?hit??call the text?Pad?rthacandrik? (not?Am?tah?daya A????ga Guhyopade?atantra ?!). See ?[?] pad?rthacandrik?? ??k?? [?] kari?y?mi ??? > > > > > > As far as I am aware, the assumed date of the Tibetan translation provides, indeed, the earliest terminus ante quem, but, as to now, one could not find any evidence to determine the terminus post quem?? that is, the TPQ is given merely by the composition of the root text. > > > I heard from several scholars in India that they thought Candrananda hailed from Kashmir. I am not sure about the rationale behind this belief, but I guess that it is influenced by the Tibetan tradition. As for Sanskrit sources,?someone Candrananda?(the?Pad?rthacandrik??has not been published in its entirety yet, so we still don?t know if it?s the same Candra or not)?is often quoted by K??rasv?min (fl. ca. 11th cent.) in his commentary on the Amarako?a,?and one can also establish that Candra?s text exhibited significant influence on Indu?(fl. ca. 12th cent.). Both authors were most likely from Kashmir, which may supply some very weak evidence for connecting Candra with this region. > > > > > > best, > > > Andrey > > > On Oct 6, 2019 22:28 +0900, Matthew Kapstein via INDOLOGY , wrote: > > > > Dear Jim, > > > > > > > > According to the catalogues of the Tibetan canon, the translation was done by Rin-chen-bzang-po (955-1054), and, because he also translated the root text, this seems likely to be correct. > > > > > > > > Although Vairocana of Pa-gor seems to have been a real 8th c. individual, it is very difficult to disentangle whatever is factual from the enormous body of legend that grew up around him. Because the Tibetan medical tantra, the Rgyud-bzhi (Four Tantras), is an apocryphon that claims its authority with reference to the period of the 8th c. monarch Khri srong lde'u btsan, it is not surprising that the "historical" tradition that developed around it would have wanted to appropriate other authorities as well. > > > > > > > > best, > > > > Matthew > > > > > > > > Matthew Kapstein > > > > Directeur d'?tudes, > > > > Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes > > > > > > > > Numata Visiting Professor of Buddhist Studies, > > > > The University of Chicago > > > > From: INDOLOGY on behalf of James Hartzell via INDOLOGY > > > > Sent: Sunday, October 6, 2019 5:57 AM > > > > To: Indology > > > > Subject: [INDOLOGY] Date of Candranandana > > > > > > > > Hi > > > > > > > > Does anyone have a definitive date for Candranandana, author of the commentary?Am?tah?daya A????ga Guhyopade?atantra on?V?gbha?a?s?A????gah?daya (or?A??h??gasa?hit?)?? According to the Tibetan medical history tradition, as reported in "The Origin of the rGyud bzhi: A Tibetan Medical Tantra? by Todd Fenner?(https://www.thlib.org/encyclopedias/literary/genres/genres-book.php#!book=/studies-in-genres/b27/dn3/), Vairocana studied with him in Kashmir, and translated this text into Tibetan, and presented it to King Trisong Detsen (Tibetan: ????????????????), who ruled (according to Wikipedia) 755 CE until 797 or 804 CE. > > > > > > > > Dr. Fenner?s history would place Candranandana in the late 8th century CE.? Has this account been further confirmed? > > > > > > > > Cheers > > > > James > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > INDOLOGY mailing list > > > > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > > > > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) > > > > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) > > > > > > -- > > James Hartzell, PhD > > Basque Center on Cognition, Brain and Language (BCBL), Donostia, Spain > > Center for Mind/Brain Sciences (CIMeC), The University of Trento, Italy > > Center for Buddhist Studies, Columbia University, USA > > > > > -- > James Hartzell, PhD > Basque Center on Cognition, Brain and Language (BCBL), Donostia, Spain > Center for Mind/Brain Sciences (CIMeC), The University of Trento, Italy > Center for Buddhist Studies, Columbia University, USA > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mkapstei at uchicago.edu Tue Oct 8 07:47:00 2019 From: mkapstei at uchicago.edu (Matthew Kapstein) Date: Tue, 08 Oct 19 07:47:00 +0000 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Date of Candranandana In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Dear friends, As the Tibetan translator, Rin-chen-bzang-po, certainly died in 1055 -- his correct dates are 958-1055 (I may have mistyped this in an earlier message) -- I doubt that Candranandana's work could have been composed later than 1020. And the dates of Rin-chen-bzang-po seem to be quite certain - in any case, if adjustments are called for, it would be a matter of a few years, not decades. So I am afraid that this rules out the interesting suggestion of Zakuna. In any case, here is the complete passage in question (vol. 114, pp. 737-8 in the dpe bsdur ma ed.): bdag gi mes por gyur pa ni// dpal chen dga' ba zhes grags yin// deng sang na yang mkhas pa rnams// grags pa'i dri med sgrogs par byed// de yi bur gyur chags la dga'// de bu zla ba la dga' (b)dag// slob dpon blo gros chen po ni// rgyun shes don ldan ming btags pa// don dam zhes bya sman pa'i mchog// kha che'i yul du skyes pa yin// rgyal po dpal ldan tha ga na// dpa' ba la sogs yon tan ldan// sa steng dgra las rgyal ba yi// sa bdag kun tu rgyal gyur cig// He who was my ancestor Was well known as MahAzrI-nandana. Even today the pandits Proclaim his taintless fame. His son was Ratinandana, Whose son Candranandana I am, Whose teacher of great intelligence, Knowing the tradition, was meaningfully named ParamArtha, supreme among physicians. I was born in the land of Kashmir. May the king, ZrImat Tha-ga-na, Who has qualities such as courage, Be victorious over all the earth's rulers, Who have conquered their enemies upon the earth. Perhaps this will give you some ideas. best, Matthew Matthew Kapstein Directeur d'?tudes, Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes Numata Visiting Professor of Buddhist Studies, The University of Chicago ________________________________ From: Walter Slaje Sent: Monday, October 7, 2019 11:59 PM To: andra.kleb at gmail.com Cc: James Hartzell ; Matthew Kapstein ; Indology Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] Date of Candranandana Unless his date is definitely too late (r. 1089-1101), one could take the Kashmirian King Har?adeva into consideration, notorious for his obsession with omina (the word "?akuna" occuring three times in these contexts), cp. Kalha?a's RT 7.743; 769; 796; 1644; 1672). A nickname formed from ?akuna and deva (last member of his name ?r?har?a-deva) may therefore not be impossible, were it not for the post 1000-date ("he must have lived [...] before ca. 1000"). Regards, WS Am Di., 8. Okt. 2019 um 01:23 Uhr schrieb Andrey Klebanov via INDOLOGY >: It?s ?akunadeva in Sanskrit: pra?amya devadeve?a? hari? v??nidhim ak?aram/ pad?rthacandrik?? ??k?? ?ubhr?? sarvahit?vah?m//1// ?r?macchakunadevena prerito h?daye sphu?am/ buddhy? kari?y?mi guro? sa?sm?tya cara??mbujam//2// best, Andrey 8 ???. 2019 ?., 06:00 +0900, Matthew Kapstein >, ?????: btw, Tha ga na is not actually a Tibetan name. It figures among the names of the mahsiddhas, where it is a Tibetan transcription of an MIA form of Sthagana, the Liar. What on earth it's doing as a Kashmiri king's name beats me. Matthew Kapstein Directeur d'?tudes, Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes Numata Visiting Professor of Buddhist Studies, The University of Chicago ________________________________ From: James Hartzell > Sent: Monday, October 7, 2019 3:27 PM To: Matthew Kapstein > Cc: andra.kleb at gmail.com >; Indology > Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] Date of Candranandana Thanks Matthew. I will keep the name of king Tha ga na in reference in case I come across anything that would help explain what his Kashmiri name was. Cheers James On Mon, Oct 7, 2019 at 9:16 PM Matthew Kapstein > wrote: All we can say is that he must have lived after VAgbhaTa and before ca. 1000. His concluding verses do mention a king, but I cannot correlate the name as given in Tibetan - Tha ga na - with anyone in the lists of Kashmiri kings with which I am familiar. Matthew Kapstein Directeur d'?tudes, Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes Numata Visiting Professor of Buddhist Studies, The University of Chicago ________________________________ From: James Hartzell > Sent: Monday, October 7, 2019 1:51 PM To: Matthew Kapstein > Cc: andra.kleb at gmail.com >; Indology > Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] Date of Candranandana Do we have any idea of when Candranandana himself may have lived? On Sun, Oct 6, 2019 at 6:57 PM Matthew Kapstein > wrote: Just to follow up on Andrey's comments: In the concluding verses in the Rin chen bzang po translation Candranandana states that he was born in Kashmir (kha che'i yul du skyes pa yin). The translator does not tell us where he studied or translated the text, but because Rin chen bzang po did work extensively in Kashmir, we may assume he did so there. Matthew Matthew Kapstein Directeur d'?tudes, Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes Numata Visiting Professor of Buddhist Studies, The University of Chicago ________________________________ From: andra.kleb at gmail.com > Sent: Sunday, October 6, 2019 11:15 AM To: Indology >; James Hartzell >; Matthew Kapstein > Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] Date of Candranandana Dear Dr Hartzell, The introductory verses to Candrananda?s commentary on the A????gah?dayasa?hit? call the text Pad?rthacandrik? (not Am?tah?daya A????ga Guhyopade?atantra ?!). See ?[?] pad?rthacandrik?? ??k?? [?] kari?y?mi ? ? As far as I am aware, the assumed date of the Tibetan translation provides, indeed, the earliest terminus ante quem, but, as to now, one could not find any evidence to determine the terminus post quem ? that is, the TPQ is given merely by the composition of the root text. I heard from several scholars in India that they thought Candrananda hailed from Kashmir. I am not sure about the rationale behind this belief, but I guess that it is influenced by the Tibetan tradition. As for Sanskrit sources, someone Candrananda (the Pad?rthacandrik? has not been published in its entirety yet, so we still don?t know if it?s the same Candra or not) is often quoted by K??rasv?min (fl. ca. 11th cent.) in his commentary on the Amarako?a, and one can also establish that Candra?s text exhibited significant influence on Indu (fl. ca. 12th cent.). Both authors were most likely from Kashmir, which may supply some very weak evidence for connecting Candra with this region. best, Andrey On Oct 6, 2019 22:28 +0900, Matthew Kapstein via INDOLOGY >, wrote: Dear Jim, According to the catalogues of the Tibetan canon, the translation was done by Rin-chen-bzang-po (955-1054), and, because he also translated the root text, this seems likely to be correct. Although Vairocana of Pa-gor seems to have been a real 8th c. individual, it is very difficult to disentangle whatever is factual from the enormous body of legend that grew up around him. Because the Tibetan medical tantra, the Rgyud-bzhi (Four Tantras), is an apocryphon that claims its authority with reference to the period of the 8th c. monarch Khri srong lde'u btsan, it is not surprising that the "historical" tradition that developed around it would have wanted to appropriate other authorities as well. best, Matthew Matthew Kapstein Directeur d'?tudes, Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes Numata Visiting Professor of Buddhist Studies, The University of Chicago ________________________________ From: INDOLOGY > on behalf of James Hartzell via INDOLOGY > Sent: Sunday, October 6, 2019 5:57 AM To: Indology > Subject: [INDOLOGY] Date of Candranandana Hi Does anyone have a definitive date for Candranandana, author of the commentary Am?tah?daya A????ga Guhyopade?atantra on V?gbha?a?s A????gah?daya (or A??h??gasa?hit?)? According to the Tibetan medical history tradition, as reported in "The Origin of the rGyud bzhi: A Tibetan Medical Tantra? by Todd Fenner (https://www.thlib.org/encyclopedias/literary/genres/genres-book.php#!book=/studies-in-genres/b27/dn3/), Vairocana studied with him in Kashmir, and translated this text into Tibetan, and presented it to King Trisong Detsen (Tibetan: ????????????????), who ruled (according to Wikipedia) 755 CE until 797 or 804 CE. Dr. Fenner?s history would place Candranandana in the late 8th century CE. Has this account been further confirmed? Cheers James _______________________________________________ INDOLOGY mailing list INDOLOGY at list.indology.info indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) -- James Hartzell, PhD Basque Center on Cognition, Brain and Language (BCBL), Donostia, Spain Center for Mind/Brain Sciences (CIMeC), The University of Trento, Italy Center for Buddhist Studies, Columbia University, USA -- James Hartzell, PhD Basque Center on Cognition, Brain and Language (BCBL), Donostia, Spain Center for Mind/Brain Sciences (CIMeC), The University of Trento, Italy Center for Buddhist Studies, Columbia University, USA _______________________________________________ INDOLOGY mailing list INDOLOGY at list.indology.info indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From birgit.kellner at oeaw.ac.at Tue Oct 8 08:33:52 2019 From: birgit.kellner at oeaw.ac.at (Birgit Kellner) Date: Tue, 08 Oct 19 10:33:52 +0200 Subject: [INDOLOGY] New publication: Buddhism and the Dynamics of Transculturality Message-ID: <4ff9575a-173c-e0d9-0883-a2db1595d2e5@oeaw.ac.at> Dear colleagues, (apologies for cross-posting). This is to inform you of a new volume that just came out with DeGruyter: "Buddhism and the Dynamics of Transculturality", edited by Birgit Kellner, with contributions by Ingo Strauch, Anna Filigenzi, Toru Funayama, Lothar Ledderose, Anna Andreeva, Fabio Rambelli, Davide Torri, Markus Viehbeck and Jonathan Samuels. The volume is also available for free download in Open Access from the publisher's website: https://www.degruyter.com/view/product/453570?format=G Abstract: "For over 2500 years, Buddhism was implicated in processes of cultural interaction that in turn shaped Buddhist doctrines, practices and institutions. While the cultural plurality of Buddhism has often been remarked upon, the transcultural processes that constitute this plurality, and their long-term effects, have scarcely been studied as a topic in their own right. The contributions to this volume present detailed case studies ranging across different time periods, regions and disciplines, and they address methodological challenges as well as theoretical problems. In addition to casting a spotlight on topics as diverse as the role of trade contacts in the early spread of Buddhism, the hybrid nature of religious practices in Japan or Indo-Tibetan relations in Tibetan polemical literature, the individual papers jointly raise the question as to whether there might be something distinct about how Buddhism steers and influences forms of cultural exchange, and is in turn shaped by modalities of cultural interaction throughout Asian, as well as global, history. The volume is intended to demonstrate the need for investigating transcultural dynamics more closely in the study of Buddhism, and to suggest new avenues for Buddhist Studies." With best regards, Birgit Kellner --- Prof. Dr. Birgit Kellner Director Institute for the Cultural and Intellectual History of Asia Austrian Academy of Sciences Hollandstrasse 11-13/2 1020 Wien / Vienna Austria Phone: +43-(0)1-51581-6420 Fax: +43-(0)1-51581-6410 From steiner at staff.uni-marburg.de Tue Oct 8 12:15:25 2019 From: steiner at staff.uni-marburg.de (Roland Steiner) Date: Tue, 08 Oct 19 14:15:25 +0200 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Date of Candranandana In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20191008141525.Horde.14AQnPQW8ojhvgSDv0mYwuf@home.staff.uni-marburg.de> Dear collegues, Maybe I missed it, but has anyone taken a look at Naudou's "Les Bouddhistes Ka?miriens" yet? Jean Naudou, Les Bouddhistes Ka?m?riens au moyen age. Paris 1968, pp. 103 f.?: ? ??Avant d?aborder ces deux sujets ? logique et /vajray?na/ ? signalons un personnage dont les ?uvres sont admises au /bstan?-gyur/, mais dont rien n?indique qu?il ait ?t? bouddhiste. Il s?agit d?un m?decin, le plus savant sans doute du Ka?m?r m?di?val, Candranandana, qui, au contraire de tant de ma?tres, est dat? avec une pr?cision tout ? fait satisfaisante, puisque l?un de ses ouvrages est accompagn? de v?ux adress?s au ??hi Thakkana, connu ?galement par la /R?jatara?gi??/ [VI, 230.231 et 236], mais qui n?est pas mentionn? par al-B?r?n?. Abhimanyu, nous informe Kalha?a, mena une exp?dition contre ce souvereign qui re?u un nouvel /abhi?eka/ ? l?occasion de son all?geance au roi de ?r?nagar. Comme Abhimanyu r?gnait de 958 ? 972, on peut admettre avec une approximation suffisante que Candranandana vivait dans la seconde moiti? du xe si?cle. Ce m?decin, auquel on donne le titre de /Sakal?yurveda??straku?ala/, ?tait, d?apr?s les donn?es g?n?alogiques transmises par la traduction tib?taine de ses ouvrages, fils de [Ratinandana] et petit-fils de [Mah?nandana)], ?[p. 104] et il ?tait originaire du Ka?m?r. II r?digea un volumineux trait? qui n?occupe pas moins de 2 188 pages en traduction tib?taine et qui s?intitule /Pad?rthacandrik?prabh?sa/. Il se pr?sente comme une viv?tti de 1?/A????gah?daya/ de V?gbha?a II et comporte les huit divisions traditionnelles : la section traitant des g?n?ralit?s [/s?trasth?na/] (/mdo?i gnas/) constitue ? elle seule pr?s du tiers de l?ouvrage (Mdo, CXX). La section relative au corps [/?ar?rasth?na/] (/lus-kyi gnas/), l??tiologie [/nid?nasth?na/] (/nad-g?i?i gnas/) et la th?rapeutique, [/cikitsasth?na/] (/gso-ba?i gnas/) occupent un second volume ; la toxicologie [/kalpasiddhist?na/] [sic.] (/?ho-ga grub pa?i gnas/) et l?[/uttarasth?na/] (/phyi-ma?i gnas/), o? sont r?unies differentes mati?res (ophtalmologie, oto-rhino-laryngologie, gyn?cologie, etc.), constituent le dernier volume (Mdo, CXXII 1). Le m?me auteura compos? l?/A????g?dikabhe?aja n?ma pary?ya/ qui, bien qu?il se pr?sente comme un trait? ind?pendant, fait partie de /A????gah?dayav?tti/ comme nous en avertit le titre tib?tain : /sman-dpyad yan-lag brgyad-pa?i s?i?-po ?grel-pa las/, etc. (Mdo, CXXII. 2) (91 p .).?? ? * * * ? Jean Naudou, Buddhists of Ka?m?r, First English Edition, Translation work from French by Brereton and Picron, Delhi 1980, p. 121 f.: ? ?Before grappling with those two subjects?logic and /vajray?na/? let us mention a personage whose works were admitted to the /bstan?-gyur/, but about whom there is nothing to indicate that he has been a Buddhist. This is a doctor, doubtless the most learned of mediaeval Ka?mir, Candranandana, who, unlike so many teachers, is dated with quite satisfying precision, since one of his writings is accompanied by good wishes addressed to ??hi Thakkana, equally known through the R?jatara?gi?? [VI, 230-231 and 236] but who is not mentioned by al-B?r?n?. Abhimanyu, Kalha?a informs us, led an expedition against that sovereign, his allegiance to the king of ?r?nagar. As Abhimanyu reigned from 958 to 972, one is able to admit with sufficient approximation that Candranandana lived in the second half of the 10th century. That doctor, who is given the title of /Sakal?yurveda??straku?ala/, was according to genealogical information, passed down through the Tibetan [p. 122] translation of his writings, son of [Ratinandana] and grandson of [Mah?nandana], and he was a native of Ka?m?r. He edited a voluminous treatise which occupies not less than 2188 pages in Tibetan translation and which is entitled /Pad?rthacandrik?prabh?sa/. It is presented as a /viv//?//tti/ of the /A????gah?daya/ of V?gbha?a II and consists of the eight traditional divisions : the section dealing with generalities, [/s?trasth?na/] (/mdo?i gnas/) constitutes itself alone nearly a third of the work (Mdo, CXX). The section relating to the body, [/??r?rasth?na/] (/lus-kyi gnas/), aetiology, [/nid?nasth?na/] (/nad-gzi?i gnas/), and therapeutics [/cikits?sth?na/] (/gso-ba?i gnas/) occupy a second volume; toxicology [/kalpasiddhistana/] [sic.] (/cho-ga grub-pa?i gnas/) and [/uttarasth?na/] (/phyi-ma?i gnas/), where are united various matters (ophthalmology, oto-rhino-laryngology, gynaecology, etc.) constitute the last volume (Mdo, CXXII, 1). The same author composed the /A????g?dikabhe?aja n?ma pary?ya/ which, although it is presented as an independent treatise, forms part of the /A????gah?dayav?tti/, as its Tibetan title informs us : /sman-dpyad yan-lag brgyad-pa?i s?i?-po?i grel-pa las/, etc. (Mdo, CXXII, 2) (91 p.).? * * * M.A. Stein comments on the ??hi ruler Thakkana mentioned by Kalha?a (note 230 ad /R?jatara?gi?? /6.230): "Nothing is known of the ruler here referred to. He may have been some small chief in a neighbouring hill claiming descent from the great /??hi /family of K?bul and Gandh?ra; [...]. The name /Thakkana /occurs elsewhere ; comp. vii. 422, 447, etc." Best wihes, Roland Steiner -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mkapstei at uchicago.edu Tue Oct 8 12:22:58 2019 From: mkapstei at uchicago.edu (Matthew Kapstein) Date: Tue, 08 Oct 19 12:22:58 +0000 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Date of Candranandana In-Reply-To: <20191008141525.Horde.14AQnPQW8ojhvgSDv0mYwuf@home.staff.uni-marburg.de> Message-ID: Dear Roland. Thank you for reminding us that we must not neglect to do the obvious. I have Naudou sitting on my shelf behind my desk and did not think to consult him on this! (Though it's of course nice to see that I did not independently arrive at conclusions contradicting his...) best regards, Matthew Matthew Kapstein Directeur d'?tudes, Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes Numata Visiting Professor of Buddhist Studies, The University of Chicago ________________________________ From: INDOLOGY on behalf of Roland Steiner via INDOLOGY Sent: Tuesday, October 8, 2019 7:15 AM To: indology at list.indology.info Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] Date of Candranandana Dear collegues, Maybe I missed it, but has anyone taken a look at Naudou's "Les Bouddhistes Ka?miriens" yet? Jean Naudou, Les Bouddhistes Ka?m?riens au moyen age. Paris 1968, pp. 103 f. : ? Avant d?aborder ces deux sujets ? logique et vajray?na ? signalons un personnage dont les ?uvres sont admises au bstan?-gyur, mais dont rien n?indique qu?il ait ?t? bouddhiste. Il s?agit d?un m?decin, le plus savant sans doute du Ka?m?r m?di?val, Candranandana, qui, au contraire de tant de ma?tres, est dat? avec une pr?cision tout ? fait satisfaisante, puisque l?un de ses ouvrages est accompagn? de v?ux adress?s au ??hi Thakkana, connu ?galement par la R?jatara?gi?? [VI, 230.231 et 236], mais qui n?est pas mentionn? par al-B?r?n?. Abhimanyu, nous informe Kalha?a, mena une exp?dition contre ce souvereign qui re?u un nouvel abhi?eka ? l?occasion de son all?geance au roi de ?r?nagar. Comme Abhimanyu r?gnait de 958 ? 972, on peut admettre avec une approximation suffisante que Candranandana vivait dans la seconde moiti? du xe si?cle. Ce m?decin, auquel on donne le titre de Sakal?yurveda??straku?ala, ?tait, d?apr?s les donn?es g?n?alogiques transmises par la traduction tib?taine de ses ouvrages, fils de [Ratinandana] et petit-fils de [Mah?nandana)], [p. 104] et il ?tait originaire du Ka?m?r. II r?digea un volumineux trait? qui n?occupe pas moins de 2 188 pages en traduction tib?taine et qui s?intitule Pad?rthacandrik?prabh?sa. Il se pr?sente comme une viv?tti de 1?A????gah?daya de V?gbha?a II et comporte les huit divisions traditionnelles : la section traitant des g?n?ralit?s [s?trasth?na] (mdo?i gnas) constitue ? elle seule pr?s du tiers de l?ouvrage (Mdo, CXX). La section relative au corps [?ar?rasth?na] (lus-kyi gnas), l??tiologie [nid?nasth?na] (nad-g?i?i gnas) et la th?rapeutique, [cikitsasth?na] (gso-ba?i gnas) occupent un second volume ; la toxicologie [kalpasiddhist?na] [sic.] (?ho-ga grub pa?i gnas) et l?[uttarasth?na] (phyi-ma?i gnas), o? sont r?unies differentes mati?res (ophtalmologie, oto-rhino-laryngologie, gyn?cologie, etc.), constituent le dernier volume (Mdo, CXXII 1). Le m?me auteura compos? l?A????g?dikabhe?aja n?ma pary?ya qui, bien qu?il se pr?sente comme un trait? ind?pendant, fait partie de A????gah?dayav?tti comme nous en avertit le titre tib?tain : sman-dpyad yan-lag brgyad-pa?i s?i?-po ?grel-pa las, etc. (Mdo, CXXII. 2) (91 p .). ? * * * Jean Naudou, Buddhists of Ka?m?r, First English Edition, Translation work from French by Brereton and Picron, Delhi 1980, p. 121 f.: ?Before grappling with those two subjects?logic and vajray?na? let us mention a personage whose works were admitted to the bstan?-gyur, but about whom there is nothing to indicate that he has been a Buddhist. This is a doctor, doubtless the most learned of mediaeval Ka?mir, Candranandana, who, unlike so many teachers, is dated with quite satisfying precision, since one of his writings is accompanied by good wishes addressed to ??hi Thakkana, equally known through the R?jatara?gi?? [VI, 230-231 and 236] but who is not mentioned by al-B?r?n?. Abhimanyu, Kalha?a informs us, led an expedition against that sovereign, his allegiance to the king of ?r?nagar. As Abhimanyu reigned from 958 to 972, one is able to admit with sufficient approximation that Candranandana lived in the second half of the 10th century. That doctor, who is given the title of Sakal?yurveda??straku?ala, was according to genealogical information, passed down through the Tibetan [p. 122] translation of his writings, son of [Ratinandana] and grandson of [Mah?nandana], and he was a native of Ka?m?r. He edited a voluminous treatise which occupies not less than 2188 pages in Tibetan translation and which is entitled Pad?rthacandrik?prabh?sa. It is presented as a viv?tti of the A????gah?daya of V?gbha?a II and consists of the eight traditional divisions : the section dealing with generalities, [s?trasth?na] (mdo?i gnas) constitutes itself alone nearly a third of the work (Mdo, CXX). The section relating to the body, [??r?rasth?na] (lus-kyi gnas), aetiology, [nid?nasth?na] (nad-gzi?i gnas), and therapeutics [cikits?sth?na] (gso-ba?i gnas) occupy a second volume; toxicology [kalpasiddhistana] [sic.] (cho-ga grub-pa?i gnas) and [uttarasth?na] (phyi-ma?i gnas), where are united various matters (ophthalmology, oto-rhino-laryngology, gynaecology, etc.) constitute the last volume (Mdo, CXXII, 1). The same author composed the A????g?dikabhe?aja n?ma pary?ya which, although it is presented as an independent treatise, forms part of the A????gah?dayav?tti, as its Tibetan title informs us : sman-dpyad yan-lag brgyad-pa?i s?i?-po?i grel-pa las, etc. (Mdo, CXXII, 2) (91 p.).? * * * M.A. Stein comments on the ??hi ruler Thakkana mentioned by Kalha?a (note 230 ad R?jatara?gi?? 6.230): "Nothing is known of the ruler here referred to. He may have been some small chief in a neighbouring hill claiming descent from the great ??hi family of K?bul and Gandh?ra; [...]. The name Thakkana occurs elsewhere ; comp. vii. 422, 447, etc." Best wihes, Roland Steiner -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From andra.kleb at gmail.com Tue Oct 8 14:21:17 2019 From: andra.kleb at gmail.com (andra.kleb at gmail.com) Date: Tue, 08 Oct 19 23:21:17 +0900 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Date of Candranandana In-Reply-To: Message-ID: This is an absolutely great find! I have no idea why I have never looked up Candranandana in Naudou (it?s a bit embarrassing I know). Anyway, given the overall quality of the available Sanskrit text, it is entirely possible (and very likely, i think) that ?r?macchakunadevena?(see my previous email) is a corruption (possibly, deliberate ?improvement?) of the original??r?matthakkanadevena. best, Andrey On Oct 8, 2019 21:23 +0900, Matthew Kapstein via INDOLOGY , wrote: > Dear Roland. > > Thank you for reminding us that we must not neglect to do the obvious. I have Naudou sitting on my shelf behind my desk and did not think to consult him on this! > (Though it's of course nice to see that I did not independently arrive at conclusions contradicting his...) > > best regards, > Matthew > > > Matthew Kapstein > Directeur d'?tudes, > Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes > > Numata Visiting Professor of Buddhist Studies, > The University of Chicago > > From: INDOLOGY on behalf of Roland Steiner via INDOLOGY > Sent: Tuesday, October 8, 2019 7:15 AM > To: indology at list.indology.info > Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] Date of Candranandana > > Dear collegues, > > Maybe I missed it, but has anyone taken a look at Naudou's "Les Bouddhistes Ka?miriens" yet? > > Jean Naudou, Les Bouddhistes Ka?m?riens au moyen age. Paris 1968, pp. 103 f.?: > > ??Avant d?aborder ces deux sujets ? logique et vajray?na ? signalons un personnage dont les ?uvres sont admises au bstan?-gyur, mais dont rien n?indique qu?il ait ?t? bouddhiste. Il s?agit d?un m?decin, le plus savant sans doute du Ka?m?r m?di?val, Candranandana, qui, au contraire de tant de ma?tres, est dat? avec une pr?cision tout ? fait satisfaisante, puisque l?un de ses ouvrages est accompagn? de v?ux adress?s au ??hi Thakkana, connu ?galement par la R?jatara?gi?? [VI, 230.231 et 236], mais qui n?est pas mentionn? par al-B?r?n?. Abhimanyu, nous informe Kalha?a, mena une exp?dition contre ce souvereign qui re?u un nouvel abhi?eka ? l?occasion de son all?geance au roi de ?r?nagar. Comme Abhimanyu r?gnait de 958 ? 972, on peut admettre avec une approximation suffisante que Candranandana vivait dans la seconde moiti? du xe si?cle. > Ce m?decin, auquel on donne le titre de Sakal?yurveda??straku?ala, ?tait, d?apr?s les donn?es g?n?alogiques transmises par la traduction tib?taine de ses ouvrages, fils de [Ratinandana] et petit-fils de [Mah?nandana)], ?[p. 104] et il ?tait originaire du Ka?m?r. II r?digea un volumineux trait? qui n?occupe pas moins de 2 188 pages en traduction tib?taine et qui s?intitule Pad?rthacandrik?prabh?sa. Il se pr?sente comme une viv?tti de 1?A????gah?daya de V?gbha?a II et comporte les huit divisions traditionnelles : la section traitant des g?n?ralit?s [s?trasth?na] (mdo?i gnas) constitue ? elle seule pr?s du tiers de l?ouvrage (Mdo, CXX). La section relative au corps [?ar?rasth?na] (lus-kyi gnas), l??tiologie [nid?nasth?na] (nad-g?i?i gnas) et la th?rapeutique, [cikitsasth?na] (gso-ba?i gnas) occupent un second volume ; la toxicologie [kalpasiddhist?na] [sic.] (?ho-ga grub pa?i gnas) et l?[uttarasth?na] (phyi-ma?i gnas), o? sont r?unies differentes mati?res (ophtalmologie, oto-rhino-laryngologie, gyn?cologie, etc.), constituent le dernier volume (Mdo, CXXII 1). Le m?me auteura compos? l?A????g?dikabhe?aja n?ma pary?ya qui, bien qu?il se pr?sente comme un trait? ind?pendant, fait partie de A????gah?dayav?tti comme nous en avertit le titre tib?tain : sman-dpyad yan-lag brgyad-pa?i s?i?-po ?grel-pa las, etc. (Mdo, CXXII. 2) (91 p .).?? > > > * * * > > Jean Naudou, Buddhists of Ka?m?r, First English Edition, Translation work from French by Brereton and Picron, Delhi 1980, p. 121 f.: > > ?Before grappling with those two subjects?logic and vajray?na? let us mention a personage whose works were admitted to the bstan?-gyur, but about whom there is nothing to indicate that he has been a Buddhist. This is a doctor, doubtless the most learned of mediaeval Ka?mir, Candranandana, who, unlike so many teachers, is dated with quite satisfying precision, since one of his writings is accompanied by good wishes addressed to ??hi Thakkana, equally known through the R?jatara?gi?? [VI, 230-231 and 236] but who is not mentioned by al-B?r?n?. Abhimanyu, Kalha?a informs us, led an expedition against that sovereign, his allegiance to the king of ?r?nagar. As Abhimanyu reigned from 958 to 972, one is able to admit with sufficient approximation that Candranandana lived in the second half of the 10th century. > That doctor, who is given the title of Sakal?yurveda??straku?ala, was according to genealogical information, passed down through the Tibetan [p. 122] translation of his writings, son of [Ratinandana] and grandson of [Mah?nandana], and he was a native of Ka?m?r. He edited a voluminous treatise which occupies not less than 2188 pages in Tibetan translation and which is entitled Pad?rthacandrik?prabh?sa. It is presented as a viv?tti of the A????gah?daya of V?gbha?a II and consists of the eight traditional divisions : the section dealing with generalities, [s?trasth?na] (mdo?i gnas) constitutes itself alone nearly a third of the work (Mdo, CXX). The section relating to the body, [??r?rasth?na] (lus-kyi gnas), aetiology, [nid?nasth?na] (nad-gzi?i gnas), and therapeutics [cikits?sth?na] (gso-ba?i gnas) occupy a second volume; toxicology [kalpasiddhistana] [sic.] (cho-ga grub-pa?i gnas) and [uttarasth?na] (phyi-ma?i gnas), where are united various matters (ophthalmology, oto-rhino-laryngology, gynaecology, etc.) constitute the last volume (Mdo, CXXII, 1). The same author composed the A????g?dikabhe?aja n?ma pary?ya which, although it is presented as an independent treatise, forms part of the A????gah?dayav?tti, as its Tibetan title informs us : sman-dpyad yan-lag brgyad-pa?i s?i?-po?i grel-pa las, etc. (Mdo, CXXII, 2) (91 p.).? > > > * * * > > M.A. Stein comments on the ??hi ruler Thakkana mentioned by Kalha?a (note 230 ad R?jatara?gi?? 6.230): > "Nothing is known of the ruler here referred to. He may have been some small chief in a neighbouring hill claiming descent from the great ??hi family of K?bul and Gandh?ra; [...]. The name Thakkana occurs elsewhere ; comp. vii. 422, 447, etc." > > > Best wihes, > > Roland Steiner > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From steiner at staff.uni-marburg.de Tue Oct 8 17:01:11 2019 From: steiner at staff.uni-marburg.de (Roland Steiner) Date: Tue, 08 Oct 19 19:01:11 +0200 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Date of Candranandana In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20191008190111.Horde.MlqfKBkiZyodEBRkcQQJLH7@home.staff.uni-marburg.de> Dear Andrey, > Anyway, given the overall quality of the available Sanskrit text, it > is entirely possible (and very likely, i think) that > ?r?macchakunadevena?(see my previous email) is a corruption > (possibly, deliberate ?improvement?) of the > original??r?matthakkanadevena. Very possible, seems to me. In ??rad?, the two ak?aras tha and ?a are semi-homograph. One could, therefore, speculate whether Thakkana was first misread to ?akkana/?akuna and then improved to ?akuna. But it's just speculation, not more. Nevertheless, it is also worth reading the section on Candranandana in Meulenbeld's "History of Indian Medicine" (see attachment). Best wishes, Roland -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: MeulenbeldHistIndMedLitonCandranandana.pdf Type: application/pdf Size: 751921 bytes Desc: not available URL: From mkapstei at uchicago.edu Tue Oct 8 17:07:19 2019 From: mkapstei at uchicago.edu (Matthew Kapstein) Date: Tue, 08 Oct 19 17:07:19 +0000 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Date of Candranandana In-Reply-To: <20191008190111.Horde.MlqfKBkiZyodEBRkcQQJLH7@home.staff.uni-marburg.de> Message-ID: Dear Roland, Unfortunately, Meulenbeld gives far too much credit to the legendary accounts of the Tibetan G.yu-thog-pa tradition, which, so far as I can see, are without historical value in the matter we are considering. best, Matthew Matthew Kapstein Directeur d'?tudes, Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes Numata Visiting Professor of Buddhist Studies, The University of Chicago ________________________________ From: Roland Steiner Sent: Tuesday, October 8, 2019 12:01 PM To: andra.kleb at gmail.com Cc: indology at list.indology.info ; Matthew Kapstein ; Madhu K Parameshwaran Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] Date of Candranandana Dear Andrey, > Anyway, given the overall quality of the available Sanskrit text, it > is entirely possible (and very likely, i think) that > ?r?macchakunadevena (see my previous email) is a corruption > (possibly, deliberate ?improvement?) of the > original ?r?matthakkanadevena. Very possible, seems to me. In ??rad?, the two ak?aras tha and ?a are semi-homograph. One could, therefore, speculate whether Thakkana was first misread to ?akkana/?akuna and then improved to ?akuna. But it's just speculation, not more. Nevertheless, it is also worth reading the section on Candranandana in Meulenbeld's "History of Indian Medicine" (see attachment). Best wishes, Roland -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From steiner at staff.uni-marburg.de Tue Oct 8 17:31:36 2019 From: steiner at staff.uni-marburg.de (Roland Steiner) Date: Tue, 08 Oct 19 19:31:36 +0200 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Date of Candranandana In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20191008193136.Horde.NKJIKcXKK4g2oDCWzgjCApU@home.staff.uni-marburg.de> Dear Mathew, I am sure you are right, but it may be worthwhile to look at some of the many references he has given. As I see it, it is crucial that also Kalha?a mentions a ruler named Thakkana (RT 6.230, 231, 236) as an adversary of Abhimanyu (ruled 958-972). Best, Roland From mkapstei at uchicago.edu Tue Oct 8 17:41:44 2019 From: mkapstei at uchicago.edu (Matthew Kapstein) Date: Tue, 08 Oct 19 17:41:44 +0000 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Date of Candranandana In-Reply-To: <20191008193136.Horde.NKJIKcXKK4g2oDCWzgjCApU@home.staff.uni-marburg.de> Message-ID: As I see it, it is crucial that also Kalha?a mentions a ruler named Thakkana (RT 6.230, 231, 236) as an adversary of Abhimanyu (ruled 958-972). That is certainly correct, Roland - he must be the Tha ga na of the concluding verse. Matthew Matthew Kapstein Directeur d'?tudes, Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes Numata Visiting Professor of Buddhist Studies, The University of Chicago ________________________________ From: Roland Steiner Sent: Tuesday, October 8, 2019 12:31 PM To: Matthew Kapstein Cc: andra.kleb at gmail.com ; indology at list.indology.info ; Madhu K Parameshwaran Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] Date of Candranandana Dear Mathew, I am sure you are right, but it may be worthwhile to look at some of the many references he has given. As I see it, it is crucial that also Kalha?a mentions a ruler named Thakkana (RT 6.230, 231, 236) as an adversary of Abhimanyu (ruled 958-972). Best, Roland -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From whitakjl at wfu.edu Wed Oct 9 09:03:52 2019 From: whitakjl at wfu.edu (Jarrod Whitaker) Date: Wed, 09 Oct 19 11:03:52 +0200 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Understanding Maths, to infinity and beyond Message-ID: An interesting radio interview on Indian math/maths (depending on your relationship with the British crown) by our colleague in New Zealand, Clemency? Montelle: https://overcast.fm/+CgRGDdRc Understanding maths, to infinity and beyond ? RNZ: Nine To Noon JW -- Jarrod Whitaker, Ph.D. Associate Professor, Department for the Study of Religions. Wake Forest University P.O. Box 7212 Winston-Salem, NC 27109 whitakjl at wfu.edu p 336.758.4162 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From raphael.voix at gmail.com Wed Oct 9 10:07:28 2019 From: raphael.voix at gmail.com (Voix Raphael) Date: Wed, 09 Oct 19 15:37:28 +0530 Subject: =?utf-8?Q?[INDOLOGY]_Image_=E2=80=98the_sixty_saints/monks_of_India=E2=80=99_(Rapha=C3=ABl_Voix)?= In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <75d7a313-161e-4759-a7ce-de82d55aa125@Spark> Dear all, I am researching on a specific image representing Indian ascetics under the title of ?the family of the divine nectar? or the ?saints of India?. As the attached document shows, this kind of image has the particularity to gather side by side ascetics (mostly, but not exclusively, celibate male ones) belonging to different spiritual lineage such as ??iva, Vai??ava, but also Buddhist, Jain or Sikh. The numerous variants, I have been able to collect, differ both in the numbers of ascetics represented (42, 46, 51, 52, sometimes more), as well as their identity. Nevertheless, considering the great majority of Bengali gurus represented in each picture, it seems likely to be a regional phenomenon. Has any of you encountered this type of image in other states of India (I have some pieces from Maharashtra) ? If so, would you be willing to share it with me in private mode ?? Does any of you know of some old versions (before the photo area) of such representation which the authors of this type of image could draw their inspiration from ? I would be very grateful to those of you who will answer that query as it will help me ascertain the scope of my analysis. All the best, _______________________________________ Rapha?l Voix Research Fellow at the French National Center for Scientific Research SAMAJ - South Asia Multidisciplinary Academic Journal - Editor-in-Chief Member of the french Institute of Pondichery (Umifre 21 CNRS/MAEE) Associate Member of the Center for South Asian Studies?(UMR 8564 CNRS/EHESS) Whats'App number : 33 (0)6 28 35 51 86 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From arlogriffiths at hotmail.com Wed Oct 9 13:59:01 2019 From: arlogriffiths at hotmail.com (Arlo Griffiths) Date: Wed, 09 Oct 19 13:59:01 +0000 Subject: =?utf-8?B?W0lORE9MT0dZXSBYZUxhVGVYIGFuZCDgpKHgpY3gpK3gpL8=?= Message-ID: Dear colleagues, Does anyone know a way to get the ligature ???? to display without vir?ma in Devanagari MT, if need be through some amount of XeTeXglyph fiddling? I am pasting below the list of ligatures for which I have found it necessary so far to fake special measures using Devanagari MT. If it is clear that adopting a different font will make most of these special cases go away, please advise me. Thank you, and best wishes, Arlo Griffiths % to deal with font bug involving r.r \newcommand{\rru}{\XeTeXglyph 59 \kern-.15em\hbox{\XeTeXglyph 533}} % to make \rru with long ..rr \newcommand{\rruu}{\XeTeXglyph 137 \XeTeXglyph 424} %kka \newcommand{\kka}{\XeTeXglyph 174} \newcommand{\kkA}{\XeTeXglyph 174\XeTeXglyph 100} %kta \newcommand{\kta}{\XeTeXglyph 261} \newcommand{\ktam}{\XeTeXglyph 261 \XeTeXglyph 530} \newcommand{\ktah}{\XeTeXglyph 261 \XeTeXglyph 52} \newcommand{\ktA}{\XeTeXglyph 261 \XeTeXglyph 100} \newcommand{\ktAh}{\XeTeXglyph 261 \XeTeXglyph 100 \XeTeXglyph 52} \newcommand{\ktAm}{\XeTeXglyph 261 \XeTeXglyph 100 \XeTeXglyph 530} \newcommand{\kti}{\XeTeXglyph 401 \XeTeXglyph 261} \newcommand{\ktim}{\XeTeXglyph 402 \XeTeXglyph 261} \newcommand{\ktI}{\XeTeXglyph 261\XeTeXglyph 102} \newcommand{\ktu}{\XeTeXglyph 261\XeTeXglyph 432} \newcommand{\ktR}{\XeTeXglyph 261\XeTeXglyph 442} \newcommand{\kte}{\XeTeXglyph 261 \XeTeXglyph 507} \newcommand{\kto}{\XeTeXglyph 261 \XeTeXglyph 109} \newcommand{\ktva}{??????}%if we ever need this again, it would be more logical to name it \ktvA %to obtain proper ktya \newcommand{\ktya}{{\XeTeXglyph 175}{\XeTeXglyph 252}?} \newcommand{\ktyA}{{\XeTeXglyph 261}{\XeTeXglyph 252}?} %?ka \newcommand{\ngka}{\XeTeXglyph 201} \newcommand{\ngkA}{\XeTeXglyph 201 \XeTeXglyph 100} \newcommand{\ngkAm}{\XeTeXglyph 201 \XeTeXglyph 100 \XeTeXglyph 530} \newcommand{\ngkI}{\XeTeXglyph 201 \XeTeXglyph 102} \newcommand{\ngku}{\XeTeXglyph 201 \XeTeXglyph 431} \newcommand{\ngkti}{\XeTeXglyph 401 \XeTeXglyph 207} \newcommand{\ngkSva}{\XeTeXglyph 208} \newcommand{\ngkSve}{\XeTeXglyph 208 \XeTeXglyph 507} %?kha \newcommand{\ngkha}{\XeTeXglyph 202} \newcommand{\ngkhA}{\XeTeXglyph 202 \XeTeXglyph 100} \newcommand{\ngkhe}{\XeTeXglyph 202 \XeTeXglyph 507} %to obtain proper ?ga, ?ga?, ?g?, ?gi, ?g?, ?gu, ?g?, ?gr?, ?ge, ?gai, ?go, ?gau \newcommand{\ngga}{\XeTeXglyph 204} \newcommand{\nggah}{\XeTeXglyph 204\XeTeXglyph 52} \newcommand{\nggam}{\XeTeXglyph 204 \XeTeXglyph 530} \newcommand{\nggaa}{\XeTeXglyph 204 \XeTeXglyph 100} \newcommand{\nggaah}{\XeTeXglyph 204 \XeTeXglyph 100 \XeTeXglyph 52} \newcommand{\nggi}{\XeTeXglyph 401 \XeTeXglyph 204} \newcommand{\nggii}{\XeTeXglyph 204 \XeTeXglyph 102} \newcommand{\nggiim}{\XeTeXglyph 204 \XeTeXglyph 405} \newcommand{\nggu}{\XeTeXglyph 204 \XeTeXglyph 431} %\newcommand{\ngguu}{\XeTeXglyph 104 \XeTeXglyph 204} \newcommand{\nggr}{\XeTeXglyph 105 \XeTeXglyph 204} %\newcommand{\ngge}{\XeTeXglyph 106 \XeTeXglyph 204} \newcommand{\ngge}{\XeTeXglyph 204 \XeTeXglyph 507} \newcommand{\nggeh}{\XeTeXglyph 204 \XeTeXglyph 507 \XeTeXglyph 52} \newcommand{\nggai}{\XeTeXglyph 107 \XeTeXglyph 204} \newcommand{\nggo}{\XeTeXglyph 204 \XeTeXglyph 109} \newcommand{\nggau}{\XeTeXglyph 110 \XeTeXglyph 204} %to obtain proper ?gha \newcommand{\nggha}{\XeTeXglyph 205} %?m?, ?mau \newcommand{\ngma}{\XeTeXglyph 206} \newcommand{\ngmA}{\XeTeXglyph 206\XeTeXglyph 100} \newcommand{\ngmu}{\XeTeXglyph 206\XeTeXglyph 431} \newcommand{\ngmU}{\XeTeXglyph 206\XeTeXglyph 436} \newcommand{\ngmau}{\XeTeXglyph 206\XeTeXglyph 110} % to deal with font bug involving cchv \newcommand{\cchve}{\XeTeXglyph 217 \XeTeXglyph 72 \XeTeXglyph 362 \XeTeXglyph 414} %jj \newcommand{\jju}{\XeTeXglyph 482} % to deal with font bug involving ?ja \newcommand{\nja}{\XeTeXglyph 482} \newcommand{\njA}{\XeTeXglyph 482 \XeTeXglyph 100} \newcommand{\njAm}{\XeTeXglyph 482 \XeTeXglyph 100 \XeTeXglyph 530} \newcommand{\nji}{\XeTeXglyph 101 \XeTeXglyph 482} \newcommand{\njI}{\XeTeXglyph 482 \XeTeXglyph 102} \newcommand{\njai}{\XeTeXglyph 482 \XeTeXglyph 511} \newcommand{\njo}{\XeTeXglyph 482 \XeTeXglyph 109} %to make ttra ligature \newcommand{\ttra}{???\XeTeXglyph470} %to make ttri ligature \newcommand{\ttri}{\XeTeXglyph401\XeTeXglyph259\XeTeXglyph470} %ttv? \newcommand{\ttvA}{\XeTeXglyph259\XeTeXglyph362\XeTeXglyph100} %?bha NO SOLUTION YET % to make dgr? \newcommand{\dgr}{\XeTeXglyph 270 \XeTeXglyph 445} %to make ddv ligature \newcommand{\ddvA}{\XeTeXglyph 286 \XeTeXglyph 100} \newcommand{\ddvi}{\XeTeXglyph 101 \XeTeXglyph 286} %to make ddhv ligature \newcommand{\ddhv}{???\XeTeXglyph 362} %to make db \newcommand{\dba}{\XeTeXglyph272} \newcommand{\dbu}{\XeTeXglyph272\XeTeXglyph 435} \newcommand{\dbA}{\XeTeXglyph272 \XeTeXglyph 100} \newcommand{\dbi}{\XeTeXglyph 101\XeTeXglyph272} \newcommand{\dbR}{\XeTeXglyph272 \XeTeXglyph 445} \newcommand{\dbra}{\XeTeXglyph 272\raise.19em\hbox{\XeTeXglyph469}} \newcommand{\dbru}{???\XeTeXglyph470\raise.05em\hbox{\XeTeXglyph436}} %to make dbhu \newcommand{\dbhu}{\XeTeXglyph280\raise.12em\hbox{\XeTeXglyph431}} %pt \newcommand{\pta}{\XeTeXglyph257} \newcommand{\ptam}{\XeTeXglyph257\XeTeXglyph530} \newcommand{\ptah}{\XeTeXglyph257 \XeTeXglyph52} \newcommand{\ptA}{\XeTeXglyph257 \XeTeXglyph100} \newcommand{\ptvA}{\XeTeXglyph258 \XeTeXglyph95 \XeTeXglyph100} \newcommand{\ptAm}{\XeTeXglyph257 \XeTeXglyph100\XeTeXglyph530} \newcommand{\ptAh}{\XeTeXglyph257 \XeTeXglyph100 \XeTeXglyph52} \newcommand{\ptI}{\XeTeXglyph 257 \XeTeXglyph 102} \newcommand{\ptim}{\XeTeXglyph 402 \XeTeXglyph 257} \newcommand{\pte}{\XeTeXglyph257 \XeTeXglyph414} \newcommand{\pto}{\XeTeXglyph257 \XeTeXglyph109} %-om? \newcommand{\coM}{??\kern.2em\raise.12em\hbox{\XeTeXglyph 531}} \newcommand{\dyoM}{????\raise.12em\hbox{\XeTeXglyph 531}} \newcommand{\moM}{??\kern.2em\raise.12em\hbox{\XeTeXglyph 531}} \newcommand{\roM}{??\raise.12em\hbox{\XeTeXglyph 531}} %??v \newcommand{\STvA}{\XeTeXglyph 368\XeTeXglyph 361\XeTeXglyph 100} \newcommand{\STve}{\XeTeXglyph 368\XeTeXglyph 361\XeTeXglyph 414} %h?a \newcommand{\hNa}{\XeTeXglyph393} \newcommand{\hNA}{\XeTeXglyph393\XeTeXglyph100} \newcommand{\hNi}{\XeTeXglyph101\XeTeXglyph393} \newcommand{\hNI}{\XeTeXglyph393\XeTeXglyph102} -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jpo at austin.utexas.edu Wed Oct 9 14:28:09 2019 From: jpo at austin.utexas.edu (Olivelle, J P) Date: Wed, 09 Oct 19 14:28:09 +0000 Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_[INDOLOGY]_XeLaTeX_and_=E0=A4=A1=E0=A5=8D=E0=A4=AD=E0=A4=BF?= In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <119E8C4A-293C-4C0F-8660-9DABEFCD90D0@austin.utexas.edu> Hi Arlo: On Mac using Devanagari-QWERTY keyboard and the Sanskrit 2003n or Pendantic Indic font I get: ???? Hope it shows the right ligature when transmitted. Best, Patrick On Oct 9, 2019, at 8:59 AM, Arlo Griffiths via INDOLOGY > wrote: Dear colleagues, Does anyone know a way to get the ligature ???? to display without vir?ma inDevanagari MT, if need be through some amount of XeTeXglyph fiddling? I am pasting below the list of ligatures for which I have found it necessary so far to fake special measures using Devanagari MT. If it is clear that adopting a different font will make most of these special cases go away, please advise me. Thank you, and best wishes, Arlo Griffiths % to deal with font bug involving r.r \newcommand{\rru}{\XeTeXglyph 59 \kern-.15em\hbox{\XeTeXglyph 533}} % to make \rru with long ..rr \newcommand{\rruu}{\XeTeXglyph 137 \XeTeXglyph 424} %kka \newcommand{\kka}{\XeTeXglyph 174} \newcommand{\kkA}{\XeTeXglyph 174\XeTeXglyph 100} %kta \newcommand{\kta}{\XeTeXglyph 261} \newcommand{\ktam}{\XeTeXglyph 261 \XeTeXglyph 530} \newcommand{\ktah}{\XeTeXglyph 261 \XeTeXglyph 52} \newcommand{\ktA}{\XeTeXglyph 261 \XeTeXglyph 100} \newcommand{\ktAh}{\XeTeXglyph 261 \XeTeXglyph 100 \XeTeXglyph 52} \newcommand{\ktAm}{\XeTeXglyph 261 \XeTeXglyph 100 \XeTeXglyph 530} \newcommand{\kti}{\XeTeXglyph 401 \XeTeXglyph 261} \newcommand{\ktim}{\XeTeXglyph 402 \XeTeXglyph 261} \newcommand{\ktI}{\XeTeXglyph 261\XeTeXglyph 102} \newcommand{\ktu}{\XeTeXglyph 261\XeTeXglyph 432} \newcommand{\ktR}{\XeTeXglyph 261\XeTeXglyph 442} \newcommand{\kte}{\XeTeXglyph 261 \XeTeXglyph 507} \newcommand{\kto}{\XeTeXglyph 261 \XeTeXglyph 109} \newcommand{\ktva}{??????}%if we ever need this again, it would be more logical to name it \ktvA %to obtain proper ktya \newcommand{\ktya}{{\XeTeXglyph 175}{\XeTeXglyph 252}?} \newcommand{\ktyA}{{\XeTeXglyph 261}{\XeTeXglyph 252}?} %?ka \newcommand{\ngka}{\XeTeXglyph 201} \newcommand{\ngkA}{\XeTeXglyph 201 \XeTeXglyph 100} \newcommand{\ngkAm}{\XeTeXglyph 201 \XeTeXglyph 100 \XeTeXglyph 530} \newcommand{\ngkI}{\XeTeXglyph 201 \XeTeXglyph 102} \newcommand{\ngku}{\XeTeXglyph 201 \XeTeXglyph 431} \newcommand{\ngkti}{\XeTeXglyph 401 \XeTeXglyph 207} \newcommand{\ngkSva}{\XeTeXglyph 208} \newcommand{\ngkSve}{\XeTeXglyph 208 \XeTeXglyph 507} %?kha \newcommand{\ngkha}{\XeTeXglyph 202} \newcommand{\ngkhA}{\XeTeXglyph 202 \XeTeXglyph 100} \newcommand{\ngkhe}{\XeTeXglyph 202 \XeTeXglyph 507} %to obtain proper ?ga, ?ga?, ?g?, ?gi, ?g?, ?gu, ?g?, ?gr?, ?ge, ?gai, ?go, ?gau \newcommand{\ngga}{\XeTeXglyph 204} \newcommand{\nggah}{\XeTeXglyph 204\XeTeXglyph 52} \newcommand{\nggam}{\XeTeXglyph 204 \XeTeXglyph 530} \newcommand{\nggaa}{\XeTeXglyph 204 \XeTeXglyph 100} \newcommand{\nggaah}{\XeTeXglyph 204 \XeTeXglyph 100 \XeTeXglyph 52} \newcommand{\nggi}{\XeTeXglyph 401 \XeTeXglyph 204} \newcommand{\nggii}{\XeTeXglyph 204 \XeTeXglyph 102} \newcommand{\nggiim}{\XeTeXglyph 204 \XeTeXglyph 405} \newcommand{\nggu}{\XeTeXglyph 204 \XeTeXglyph 431} %\newcommand{\ngguu}{\XeTeXglyph 104 \XeTeXglyph 204} \newcommand{\nggr}{\XeTeXglyph 105 \XeTeXglyph 204} %\newcommand{\ngge}{\XeTeXglyph 106 \XeTeXglyph 204} \newcommand{\ngge}{\XeTeXglyph 204 \XeTeXglyph 507} \newcommand{\nggeh}{\XeTeXglyph 204 \XeTeXglyph 507 \XeTeXglyph 52} \newcommand{\nggai}{\XeTeXglyph 107 \XeTeXglyph 204} \newcommand{\nggo}{\XeTeXglyph 204 \XeTeXglyph 109} \newcommand{\nggau}{\XeTeXglyph 110 \XeTeXglyph 204} %to obtain proper ?gha \newcommand{\nggha}{\XeTeXglyph 205} %?m?, ?mau \newcommand{\ngma}{\XeTeXglyph 206} \newcommand{\ngmA}{\XeTeXglyph 206\XeTeXglyph 100} \newcommand{\ngmu}{\XeTeXglyph 206\XeTeXglyph 431} \newcommand{\ngmU}{\XeTeXglyph 206\XeTeXglyph 436} \newcommand{\ngmau}{\XeTeXglyph 206\XeTeXglyph 110} % to deal with font bug involving cchv \newcommand{\cchve}{\XeTeXglyph 217 \XeTeXglyph 72 \XeTeXglyph 362 \XeTeXglyph 414} %jj \newcommand{\jju}{\XeTeXglyph 482} % to deal with font bug involving ?ja \newcommand{\nja}{\XeTeXglyph 482} \newcommand{\njA}{\XeTeXglyph 482 \XeTeXglyph 100} \newcommand{\njAm}{\XeTeXglyph 482 \XeTeXglyph 100 \XeTeXglyph 530} \newcommand{\nji}{\XeTeXglyph 101 \XeTeXglyph 482} \newcommand{\njI}{\XeTeXglyph 482 \XeTeXglyph 102} \newcommand{\njai}{\XeTeXglyph 482 \XeTeXglyph 511} \newcommand{\njo}{\XeTeXglyph 482 \XeTeXglyph 109} %to make ttra ligature \newcommand{\ttra}{???\XeTeXglyph470} %to make ttri ligature \newcommand{\ttri}{\XeTeXglyph401\XeTeXglyph259\XeTeXglyph470} %ttv? \newcommand{\ttvA}{\XeTeXglyph259\XeTeXglyph362\XeTeXglyph100} %?bha NO SOLUTION YET % to make dgr? \newcommand{\dgr}{\XeTeXglyph 270 \XeTeXglyph 445} %to make ddv ligature \newcommand{\ddvA}{\XeTeXglyph 286 \XeTeXglyph 100} \newcommand{\ddvi}{\XeTeXglyph 101 \XeTeXglyph 286} %to make ddhv ligature \newcommand{\ddhv}{???\XeTeXglyph 362} %to make db \newcommand{\dba}{\XeTeXglyph272} \newcommand{\dbu}{\XeTeXglyph272\XeTeXglyph 435} \newcommand{\dbA}{\XeTeXglyph272 \XeTeXglyph 100} \newcommand{\dbi}{\XeTeXglyph 101\XeTeXglyph272} \newcommand{\dbR}{\XeTeXglyph272 \XeTeXglyph 445} \newcommand{\dbra}{\XeTeXglyph 272\raise.19em\hbox{\XeTeXglyph469}} \newcommand{\dbru}{???\XeTeXglyph470\raise.05em\hbox{\XeTeXglyph436}} %to make dbhu \newcommand{\dbhu}{\XeTeXglyph280\raise.12em\hbox{\XeTeXglyph431}} %pt \newcommand{\pta}{\XeTeXglyph257} \newcommand{\ptam}{\XeTeXglyph257\XeTeXglyph530} \newcommand{\ptah}{\XeTeXglyph257 \XeTeXglyph52} \newcommand{\ptA}{\XeTeXglyph257 \XeTeXglyph100} \newcommand{\ptvA}{\XeTeXglyph258 \XeTeXglyph95 \XeTeXglyph100} \newcommand{\ptAm}{\XeTeXglyph257 \XeTeXglyph100\XeTeXglyph530} \newcommand{\ptAh}{\XeTeXglyph257 \XeTeXglyph100 \XeTeXglyph52} \newcommand{\ptI}{\XeTeXglyph 257 \XeTeXglyph 102} \newcommand{\ptim}{\XeTeXglyph 402 \XeTeXglyph 257} \newcommand{\pte}{\XeTeXglyph257 \XeTeXglyph414} \newcommand{\pto}{\XeTeXglyph257 \XeTeXglyph109} %-om? \newcommand{\coM}{??\kern.2em\raise.12em\hbox{\XeTeXglyph 531}} \newcommand{\dyoM}{????\raise.12em\hbox{\XeTeXglyph 531}} \newcommand{\moM}{??\kern.2em\raise.12em\hbox{\XeTeXglyph 531}} \newcommand{\roM}{??\raise.12em\hbox{\XeTeXglyph 531}} %??v \newcommand{\STvA}{\XeTeXglyph 368\XeTeXglyph 361\XeTeXglyph 100} \newcommand{\STve}{\XeTeXglyph 368\XeTeXglyph 361\XeTeXglyph 414} %h?a \newcommand{\hNa}{\XeTeXglyph393} \newcommand{\hNA}{\XeTeXglyph393\XeTeXglyph100} \newcommand{\hNi}{\XeTeXglyph101\XeTeXglyph393} \newcommand{\hNI}{\XeTeXglyph393\XeTeXglyph102} _______________________________________________ INDOLOGY mailing list INDOLOGY at list.indology.info indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) This message is from an external sender. Learn more about why this << matters at https://links.utexas.edu/rtyclf. << -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From raik.strunz at indologie.uni-halle.de Wed Oct 9 14:59:11 2019 From: raik.strunz at indologie.uni-halle.de (Raik Strunz) Date: Wed, 09 Oct 19 16:59:11 +0200 Subject: =?utf-8?Q?[INDOLOGY]_Antw:__XeLaTeX_and_=E0=A4=A1=E0=A5=8D=E0=A4=AD=E0=A4=BF?= In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <5D9E11DF020000C30009FB7F@gwia0.itz.uni-halle.de> Dear Arlo, looking into the Devanagari MT font table I am afraid to say that there is no /d?bha/ conjunction preset, at least not in my version of the font (perhaps someone else might have a newer one). So as long as you are not modifying the original font adding a glyph, or you are setting up an XeLaTeX pseudo-?glyph?, highly likely it won?t be possible. Working myself on a Devanagari font, I would recommend a simple font creator & editor (I use TypeTool 3) and / or a proper XeLaTeX build (in my font I am now up to ca. 2.800 aks?ara commands). The problem, you?re confronted with, might be easiest solved with a basic font editor adding the conjunction glyph in question. Changing the font could also be a solution (e.g. Chandas/Uttara). Best, Raik Strunz ??????????? Raik Strunz, M.A. Wissenschaftlicher Mitarbeiter Email: raik.strunz at indologie.uni-halle.de Tel.: +49 345 / 55 23655 Martin-Luther-Universit?t Halle-Wittenberg Institut f?r Altertumswissenschaften Seminar f?r Indologie Emil-Abderhalden-Stra?e 9 D-06108 Halle (Saale) www.indologie.uni-halle.de ??????????? ??????????? ??????? ? >>> Arlo Griffiths via INDOLOGY 09.10.19 16.01 Uhr >>> Dear colleagues, Does anyone know a way to get the ligature ???? to display without vir?ma in Devanagari MT, if need be through some amount of XeTeXglyph fiddling? I am pasting below the list of ligatures for which I have found it necessary so far to fake special measures using Devanagari MT. If it is clear that adopting a different font will make most of these special cases go away, please advise me. Thank you, and best wishes, Arlo Griffiths % to deal with font bug involving r.r \newcommand{\rru}{\XeTeXglyph 59 \kern-.15em\hbox{\XeTeXglyph 533}} % to make \rru with long ..rr \newcommand{\rruu}{\XeTeXglyph 137 \XeTeXglyph 424} %kka \newcommand{\kka}{\XeTeXglyph 174} \newcommand{\kkA}{\XeTeXglyph 174\XeTeXglyph 100} %kta \newcommand{\kta}{\XeTeXglyph 261} \newcommand{\ktam}{\XeTeXglyph 261 \XeTeXglyph 530} \newcommand{\ktah}{\XeTeXglyph 261 \XeTeXglyph 52} \newcommand{\ktA}{\XeTeXglyph 261 \XeTeXglyph 100} \newcommand{\ktAh}{\XeTeXglyph 261 \XeTeXglyph 100 \XeTeXglyph 52} \newcommand{\ktAm}{\XeTeXglyph 261 \XeTeXglyph 100 \XeTeXglyph 530} \newcommand{\kti}{\XeTeXglyph 401 \XeTeXglyph 261} \newcommand{\ktim}{\XeTeXglyph 402 \XeTeXglyph 261} \newcommand{\ktI}{\XeTeXglyph 261\XeTeXglyph 102} \newcommand{\ktu}{\XeTeXglyph 261\XeTeXglyph 432} \newcommand{\ktR}{\XeTeXglyph 261\XeTeXglyph 442} \newcommand{\kte}{\XeTeXglyph 261 \XeTeXglyph 507} \newcommand{\kto}{\XeTeXglyph 261 \XeTeXglyph 109} \newcommand{\ktva}{??????}%if we ever need this again, it would be more logical to name it \ktvA %to obtain proper ktya \newcommand{\ktya}{{\XeTeXglyph 175}{\XeTeXglyph 252}?} \newcommand{\ktyA}{{\XeTeXglyph 261}{\XeTeXglyph 252}?} %?ka \newcommand{\ngka}{\XeTeXglyph 201} \newcommand{\ngkA}{\XeTeXglyph 201 \XeTeXglyph 100} \newcommand{\ngkAm}{\XeTeXglyph 201 \XeTeXglyph 100 \XeTeXglyph 530} \newcommand{\ngkI}{\XeTeXglyph 201 \XeTeXglyph 102} \newcommand{\ngku}{\XeTeXglyph 201 \XeTeXglyph 431} \newcommand{\ngkti}{\XeTeXglyph 401 \XeTeXglyph 207} \newcommand{\ngkSva}{\XeTeXglyph 208} \newcommand{\ngkSve}{\XeTeXglyph 208 \XeTeXglyph 507} %?kha \newcommand{\ngkha}{\XeTeXglyph 202} \newcommand{\ngkhA}{\XeTeXglyph 202 \XeTeXglyph 100} \newcommand{\ngkhe}{\XeTeXglyph 202 \XeTeXglyph 507} %to obtain proper ?ga, ?ga?, ?g?, ?gi, ?g?, ?gu, ?g?, ?gr?, ?ge, ?gai, ?go, ?gau \newcommand{\ngga}{\XeTeXglyph 204} \newcommand{\nggah}{\XeTe \newcommand{\nggaa}{\XeTeXglyph 204 \XeTeXglyph 100} \newcommand{\nggaah}{\XeTeXglyph 204 \XeTeXglyph 100 \XeTeXglyph 52} \newcommand{\nggi}{\XeTeXglyph 401 \XeTeXglyph 204} \newcommand{\nggii}{\XeTeXglyph 204 \XeTeXglyph 102} \newcommand{\nggiim}{\XeTeXglyph 204 \XeTeXglyph 405} \newcommand{\nggu}{\XeTeXglyph 204 \XeTeXglyph 431} %\newcommand{\ngguu}{\XeTeXglyph 104 \XeTeXglyph 204} \newcommand{\nggr}{\XeTeXglyph 105 \XeTeXglyph 204} %\newcommand{\ngge}{\XeTeXglyph 106 \XeTeXglyph 204} \newcommand{\ngge}{\XeTeXglyph 204 \XeTeXglyph 507} \newcommand{\nggeh}{\XeTeXglyph 204 \XeTeXglyph 507 \XeTeXglyph 52} \newcommand{\nggai}{\XeTeXglyph 107 \XeTeXglyph 204} \newcommand{\nggo}{\XeTeXglyph 204 \XeTeXglyph 109} \newcommand{\nggau}{\XeTeXglyph 110 \XeTeXglyph 204} %to obtain proper ?gha \newcommand{\nggha}{\XeTeXglyph 205} %?m?, ?mau \newcommand{\ngma}{\XeTeXglyph 206} \newcommand{\ngmA}{\XeTeXglyph 206\XeTeXglyph 100} \newcommand{\ngmu}{\XeTeXglyph 206\XeTeXglyph 431} \newcommand{\ngmU}{\XeTeXglyph 206\XeTeXglyph 436} \newcommand{\ngmau}{\XeTeXglyph 206\XeTeXglyph 110} % to deal with font bug involving cchv \newcommand{\cchve}{\XeTeXglyph 217 \XeTeXglyph 72 \XeTeXglyph 362 \XeTeXglyph 414} %jj \newcommand{\jju}{\XeTeXglyph 482} % to deal with font bug involving ?ja \newcommand{\nja}{\XeTeXglyph 482} \newcommand{\njA}{\XeTeXglyph 482 \XeTeXglyph 100} \newcommand{\njAm}{\XeTeXglyph 482 \XeTeXglyph 100 \XeTeXglyph 530} \newcommand{\nji}{\XeTeXglyph 101 \XeTeXglyph 482} \newcommand{\njI}{\XeTeXglyph 482 \XeTeXglyph 102} \newcommand{\njai}{\XeTeXglyph 482 \XeTeXglyph 511} \newcommand{\njo}{\XeTeXglyph 482 \XeTeXglyph 109} %to make ttra ligature \newcommand{\ttra}{???\XeTeXglyph470} %to make ttri ligature \newcommand{\ttri}{\XeTeXglyph401\XeTeXglyph259\XeTeXglyph470} %ttv? \newcommand{\ttvA}{\XeTeXglyph259\XeTeXglyph362\XeTeXglyph100} %?bha NO SOLUTION YET % to make dgr? \newcommand{\dgr}{\XeTeXglyph 270 \XeTeXglyph 445} %to make ddv ligature \newcommand{\ddvA}{\XeTeXglyph 286 \XeTeXglyph 100} \newcommand{\ddvi}{\XeTeXglyph 101 \XeTeXglyph 286} %to make ddhv ligature \newcommand{\ddhv}{???\XeTeXglyph 362} %to make db \newcommand{\dba}{\XeTeXglyph272} \newcommand{\dbu}{\XeTeXglyph272\XeTeXglyph 435} \newcommand{\dbA}{\XeTeXglyph272 \XeTeXglyph 100} \newcommand{\dbi}{\XeTeXglyph 101\XeTeXglyph272} \newcommand{\dbR}{\XeTeXglyph272 \XeTeXglyph 445} \newcommand{\dbra}{\XeTeXglyph 272\raise.19em\hbox{\XeTeXglyph469}} \newcommand{\dbru}{???\XeTeXglyph470\raise.05em\hbox{\XeTeXglyph436}} %to make dbhu \newcommand{\dbhu}{\XeTeXglyph280\raise.12em\hbox{\XeTeXglyph431}} %pt \newcommand{\pta}{\XeTeXglyph257} \newcommand{\ptam}{\XeTeXglyph257\XeTeXglyph530} \newcommand{\ptah}{\XeTeXglyph257 \XeTeXglyph52} \newcommand{\ptA}{\XeTeXglyph257 \XeTeXglyph100} \newcommand{\ptvA}{\XeTeXglyph258 \XeTeXglyph95 \XeTeXglyph100} \newcommand{\ptAm}{\XeTeXglyph257 \XeTeXglyph100\XeTeXglyph530} \newcommand{\ptAh}{\XeTeXglyph257 \XeTeXglyph100 \XeTeXglyph52} \newcommand{\ptI}{\XeTeXglyph 257 \XeTeXglyph 102} \newcommand{\ptim}{\XeTeXglyph 402 \XeTeXglyph 257} \newcommand{\pte}{\XeTeXglyph257 \XeTeXglyph414} \newcommand{\pto}{\XeTeXglyph257 \XeTeXglyph109} %-om? \newcommand{\coM}{??\kern.2em\raise.12em\hbox{\XeTeXglyph 531}} \newcommand{\dyoM}{????\raise.12em\hbox{\XeTeXglyph 531}} \newcommand{\moM}{??\kern.2em\raise.12em\hbox{\XeTeXglyph 531}} \newcommand{\roM}{??\raise.12em\hbox{\XeTeXglyph 531}} %??v \newcommand{\STvA}{\XeTeXglyph 368\XeTeXglyph 361\XeTeXglyph 100} \newcommand{\STve}{\XeTeXglyph 368\XeTeXglyph 361\Xe \newcommand{\hNi}{\XeTeXglyph101\XeTeXglyph393} \newcommand{\hNI}{\XeTeXglyph393\XeTeXglyph102} -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From francois.patte at mi.parisdescartes.fr Wed Oct 9 15:03:58 2019 From: francois.patte at mi.parisdescartes.fr (=?utf-8?Q?Fran=C3=A7ois_Patte?=) Date: Wed, 09 Oct 19 17:03:58 +0200 Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_[INDOLOGY]_XeLaTeX_and_=E0=A4=A1=E0=A5=8D=E0=A4=AD=E0=A4=BF?= In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <813e012b-7485-bea2-ffea-825fb387794f@mi.parisdescartes.fr> Le 09/10/2019 ? 15:59, Arlo Griffiths via INDOLOGY a ?crit?: > Dear colleagues, > > Does anyone know a way to get the ligature ???? to display without vir?ma > inDevanagari MT, if need be through some amount of XeTeXglyph fiddling? > > I am pasting below the list of ligatures for which I have found it > necessary so far to fake special measures using Devanagari MT. If it is > clear that adopting a different font will make most of these special > cases go away, please advise me. It seems that devanagari MT has some problems with ligatures (see https://discussions.apple.com/thread/1274475). I use without any problem the FreeSerif fonts (avalaible with Texlive and (I think) MikTex). The sanskrit 2003 fonts are also easy to use. -- Fran?ois Patte UFR de math?matiques et informatique Laboratoire CNRS MAP5, UMR 8145 Universit? Paris Descartes 45, rue des Saints P?res F-75270 Paris Cedex 06 T?l. +33 (0)6 7892 5822 http://www.math-info.univ-paris5.fr/~patte -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 195 bytes Desc: not available URL: From andrew.ollett at gmail.com Wed Oct 9 15:06:20 2019 From: andrew.ollett at gmail.com (Andrew Ollett) Date: Wed, 09 Oct 19 10:06:20 -0500 Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_[INDOLOGY]_Antw:_XeLaTeX_and_=E0=A4=A1=E0=A5=8D=E0=A4=AD=E0=A4=BF?= In-Reply-To: <5D9E11DF020000C30009FB7F@gwia0.itz.uni-halle.de> Message-ID: The Adisila font, developed Krishnaprasad and occasionally discussed on this list, does have the ligature in question. Hopefully the attached image comes through. The large number of "hacks" you've had to introduce to get Devanagari MT to do the right thing suggests to me that a different font might serve you better. [image: image.png] On Wed, Oct 9, 2019 at 10:00 AM Raik Strunz via INDOLOGY < indology at list.indology.info> wrote: > Dear Arlo, > > looking into the Devanagari MT font table I am afraid to say that there is > no /d?bha/ conjunction preset, at least not in my version of the font > (perhaps someone else might have a newer one). > > So as long as you are not modifying the original font adding a glyph, or > you are setting up an XeLaTeX pseudo-?glyph?, highly likely it won?t be > possible. > > Working myself on a Devanagari font, I would recommend a simple font > creator & editor (I use TypeTool 3) and / or a proper XeLaTeX build (in my > font I am now up to ca. 2.800 *aks?ara* commands). > > The problem, you?re confronted with, might be easiest solved with a basic > font editor adding the conjunction glyph in question. Changing the font > could also be a solution (e.g. Chandas/Uttara). > > Best, > > > Raik Strunz > > > > > > ??????????? > > > > Raik Strunz, M.A. > > > Wissenschaftlicher Mitarbeiter > > Email: raik.strunz at indologie.uni-halle.de > > Tel.: +49 345 / 55 23655 > > > Martin-Luther-Universit?t Halle-Wittenberg > > Institut f?r Altertumswissenschaften > > Seminar f?r Indologie > > Emil-Abderhalden-Stra?e 9 > > D-06108 Halle (Saale) > > > www.indologie.uni-halle.de > > > ??????????? > > > ??????????? ??????? ? > > >>> Arlo Griffiths via INDOLOGY 09.10.19 > 16.01 Uhr >>> > Dear colleagues, > > Does anyone know a way to get the ligature ???? to display without vir?ma > in Devanagari MT, if need be through some amount of XeTeXglyph fiddling? > > I am pasting below the list of ligatures for which I have found it > necessary so far to fake special measures using Devanagari MT. If it is > clear that adopting a different font will make most of these special cases > go away, please advise me. > > Thank you, and best wishes, > > Arlo Griffiths > > > % to deal with font bug involving r.r > \newcommand{\rru}{\XeTeXglyph 59 \kern-.15em\hbox{\XeTeXglyph 533}} > > % to make \rru with long ..rr > \newcommand{\rruu}{\XeTeXglyph 137 \XeTeXglyph 424} > > %kka > \newcommand{\kka}{\XeTeXglyph 174} > \newcommand{\kkA}{\XeTeXglyph 174\XeTeXglyph 100} > > %kta > \newcommand{\kta}{\XeTeXglyph 261} > \newcommand{\ktam}{\XeTeXglyph 261 \XeTeXglyph 530} > \newcommand{\ktah}{\XeTeXglyph 261 \XeTeXglyph 52} > \newcommand{\ktA}{\XeTeXglyph 261 \XeTeXglyph 100} > \newcommand{\ktAh}{\XeTeXglyph 261 \XeTeXglyph 100 \XeTeXglyph 52} > \newcommand{\ktAm}{\XeTeXglyph 261 \XeTeXglyph 100 \XeTeXglyph 530} > \newcommand{\kti}{\XeTeXglyph 401 \XeTeXglyph 261} > \newcommand{\ktim}{\XeTeXglyph 402 \XeTeXglyph 261} > \newcommand{\ktI}{\XeTeXglyph 261\XeTeXglyph 102} > \newcommand{\ktu}{\XeTeXglyph 261\XeTeXglyph 432} > \newcommand{\ktR}{\XeTeXglyph 261\XeTeXglyph 442} > \newcommand{\kte}{\XeTeXglyph 261 \XeTeXglyph 507} > \newcommand{\kto}{\XeTeXglyph 261 \XeTeXglyph 109} > \newcommand{\ktva}{??????}%if we ever need this again, it would be more > logical to name it \ktvA > > %to obtain proper ktya > \newcommand{\ktya}{{\XeTeXglyph 175}{\XeTeXglyph 252}?} > \newcommand{\ktyA}{{\XeTeXglyph 261}{\XeTeXglyph 252}?} > > %?ka > \newcommand{\ngka}{\XeTeXglyph 201} > \newcommand{\ngkA}{\XeTeXglyph 201 \XeTeXglyph 100} > \newcommand{\ngkAm}{\XeTeXglyph 201 \XeTeXglyph 100 \XeTeXglyph 530} > \newcommand{\ngkI}{\XeTeXglyph 201 \XeTeXglyph 102} > \newcommand{\ngku}{\XeTeXglyph 201 \XeTeXglyph 431} > \newcommand{\ngkti}{\XeTeXglyph 401 \XeTeXglyph 207} > \newcommand{\ngkSva}{\XeTeXglyph 208} > \newcommand{\ngkSve}{\XeTeXglyph 208 \XeTeXglyph 507} > > %?kha > \newcommand{\ngkha}{\XeTeXglyph 202} > \newcommand{\ngkhA}{\XeTeXglyph 202 \XeTeXglyph 100} > \newcommand{\ngkhe}{\XeTeXglyph 202 \XeTeXglyph 507} > > %to obtain proper ?ga, ?ga?, ?g?, ?gi, ?g?, ?gu, ?g?, ?gr?, ?ge, ?gai, > ?go, ?gau > \newcommand{\ngga}{\XeTeXglyph 204} > \newcommand{\nggah}{\XeTeXglyph 204\XeTeXglyph 52} > \newcommand{\nggam}{\XeTeXglyph 204 \XeTeXglyph 530} > \newcommand{\nggaa}{\XeTeXglyph 204 \XeTeXglyph 100} > \newcommand{\nggaah}{\XeTeXglyph 204 \XeTeXglyph 100 \XeTeXglyph 52} > \newcommand{\nggi}{\XeTeXglyph 401 \XeTeXglyph 204} > \newcommand{\nggii}{\XeTeXglyph 204 \XeTeXglyph 102} > \newcommand{\nggiim}{\XeTeXglyph 204 \XeTeXglyph 405} > \newcommand{\nggu}{\XeTeXglyph 204 \XeTeXglyph 431} > %\newcommand{\ngguu}{\XeTeXglyph 104 \XeTeXglyph 204} > \newcommand{\nggr}{\XeTeXglyph 105 \XeTeXglyph 204} > %\newcommand{\ngge}{\XeTeXglyph 106 \XeTeXglyph 204} > \newcommand{\ngge}{\XeTeXglyph 204 \XeTeXglyph 507} > \newcommand{\nggeh}{\XeTeXglyph 204 \XeTeXglyph 507 \XeTeXglyph 52} > \newcommand{\nggai}{\XeTeXglyph 107 \XeTeXglyph 204} > \newcommand{\nggo}{\XeTeXglyph 204 \XeTeXglyph 109} > \newcommand{\nggau}{\XeTeXglyph 110 \XeTeXglyph 204} > > %to obtain proper ?gha > \newcommand{\nggha}{\XeTeXglyph 205} > > %?m?, ?mau > \newcommand{\ngma}{\XeTeXglyph 206} > \newcommand{\ngmA}{\XeTeXglyph 206\XeTeXglyph 100} > \newcommand{\ngmu}{\XeTeXglyph 206\XeTeXglyph 431} > \newcommand{\ngmU}{\XeTeXglyph 206\XeTeXglyph 436} > \newcommand{\ngmau}{\XeTeXglyph 206\XeTeXglyph 110} > > % to deal with font bug involving cchv > \newcommand{\cchve}{\XeTeXglyph 217 \XeTeXglyph 72 \XeTeXglyph 362 > \XeTeXglyph 414} > > %jj > \newcommand{\jju}{\XeTeXglyph 482} > > % to deal with font bug involving ?ja > \newcommand{\nja}{\XeTeXglyph 482} > \newcommand{\njA}{\XeTeXglyph 482 \XeTeXglyph 100} > \newcommand{\njAm}{\XeTeXglyph 482 \XeTeXglyph 100 \XeTeXglyph 530} > \newcommand{\nji}{\XeTeXglyph 101 \XeTeXglyph 482} > \newcommand{\njI}{\XeTeXglyph 482 \XeTeXglyph 102} > \newcommand{\njai}{\XeTeXglyph 482 \XeTeXglyph 511} > \newcommand{\njo}{\XeTeXglyph 482 \XeTeXglyph 109} > > %to make ttra ligature > \newcommand{\ttra}{???\XeTeXglyph470} > > %to make ttri ligature > \newcommand{\ttri}{\XeTeXglyph401\XeTeXglyph259\XeTeXglyph470} > > %ttv? > \newcommand{\ttvA}{\XeTeXglyph259\XeTeXglyph362\XeTeXglyph100} > > %?bha > NO SOLUTION YET > > % to make dgr? > \newcommand{\dgr}{\XeTeXglyph 270 \XeTeXglyph 445} > > %to make ddv ligature > \newcommand{\ddvA}{\XeTeXglyph 286 \XeTeXglyph 100} > \newcommand{\ddvi}{\XeTeXglyph 101 \XeTeXglyph 286} > > %to make ddhv ligature > \newcommand{\ddhv}{???\XeTeXglyph 362} > > %to make db > \newcommand{\dba}{\XeTeXglyph272} > \newcommand{\dbu}{\XeTeXglyph272\XeTeXglyph 435} > \newcommand{\dbA}{\XeTeXglyph272 \XeTeXglyph 100} > \newcommand{\dbi}{\XeTeXglyph 101\XeTeXglyph272} > \newcommand{\dbR}{\XeTeXglyph272 \XeTeXglyph 445} > \newcommand{\dbra}{\XeTeXglyph 272\raise.19em\hbox{\XeTeXglyph469}} > \newcommand{\dbru}{???\XeTeXglyph470\raise.05em\hbox{\XeTeXglyph436}} > > %to make dbhu > \newcommand{\dbhu}{\XeTeXglyph280\raise.12em\hbox{\XeTeXglyph431}} > > %pt > \newcommand{\pta}{\XeTeXglyph257} > \newcommand{\ptam}{\XeTeXglyph257\XeTeXglyph530} > \newcommand{\ptah}{\XeTeXglyph257 \XeTeXglyph52} > \newcommand{\ptA}{\XeTeXglyph257 \XeTeXglyph100} > \newcommand{\ptvA}{\XeTeXglyph258 \XeTeXglyph95 \XeTeXglyph100} > \newcommand{\ptAm}{\XeTeXglyph257 \XeTeXglyph100\XeTeXglyph530} > \newcommand{\ptAh}{\XeTeXglyph257 \XeTeXglyph100 \XeTeXglyph52} > \newcommand{\ptI}{\XeTeXglyph 257 \XeTeXglyph 102} > \newcommand{\ptim}{\XeTeXglyph 402 \XeTeXglyph 257} > \newcommand{\pte}{\XeTeXglyph257 \XeTeXglyph414} > \newcommand{\pto}{\XeTeXglyph257 \XeTeXglyph109} > > %-om? > \newcommand{\coM}{??\kern.2em\raise.12em\hbox{\XeTeXglyph 531}} > \newcommand{\dyoM}{????\raise.12em\hbox{\XeTeXglyph 531}} > \newcommand{\moM}{??\kern.2em\raise.12em\hbox{\XeTeXglyph 531}} > \newcommand{\roM}{??\raise.12em\hbox{\XeTeXglyph 531}} > > %??v > \newcommand{\STvA}{\XeTeXglyph 368\XeTeXglyph 361\XeTeXglyph 100} > \newcommand{\STve}{\XeTeXglyph 368\XeTeXglyph 361\XeTeXglyph 414} > > %h?a > \newcommand{\hNa}{\XeTeXglyph393} > \newcommand{\hNA}{\XeTeXglyph393\XeTeXglyph100} > \newcommand{\hNi}{\XeTeXglyph101\XeTeXglyph393} > \newcommand{\hNI}{\XeTeXglyph393\XeTeXglyph102} > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing > committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or > unsubscribe) > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From andrew.ollett at gmail.com Wed Oct 9 15:07:34 2019 From: andrew.ollett at gmail.com (Andrew Ollett) Date: Wed, 09 Oct 19 10:07:34 -0500 Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_[INDOLOGY]_Antw:_XeLaTeX_and_=E0=A4=A1=E0=A5=8D=E0=A4=AD=E0=A4=BF?= In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Sorry, this is the image I meant to send. [image: image.png] On Wed, Oct 9, 2019 at 10:06 AM Andrew Ollett wrote: > The Adisila font, developed Krishnaprasad and occasionally discussed on > this list, does have the ligature in question. Hopefully the attached image > comes through. The large number of "hacks" you've had to introduce to get > Devanagari MT to do the right thing suggests to me that a different font > might serve you better. > [image: image.png] > > On Wed, Oct 9, 2019 at 10:00 AM Raik Strunz via INDOLOGY < > indology at list.indology.info> wrote: > >> Dear Arlo, >> >> looking into the Devanagari MT font table I am afraid to say that there >> is no /d?bha/ conjunction preset, at least not in my version of the font >> (perhaps someone else might have a newer one). >> >> So as long as you are not modifying the original font adding a glyph, or >> you are setting up an XeLaTeX pseudo-?glyph?, highly likely it won?t be >> possible. >> >> Working myself on a Devanagari font, I would recommend a simple font >> creator & editor (I use TypeTool 3) and / or a proper XeLaTeX build (in my >> font I am now up to ca. 2.800 *aks?ara* commands). >> >> The problem, you?re confronted with, might be easiest solved with a basic >> font editor adding the conjunction glyph in question. Changing the font >> could also be a solution (e.g. Chandas/Uttara). >> >> Best, >> >> >> Raik Strunz >> >> >> >> >> >> ??????????? >> >> >> >> Raik Strunz, M.A. >> >> >> Wissenschaftlicher Mitarbeiter >> >> Email: raik.strunz at indologie.uni-halle.de >> >> Tel.: +49 345 / 55 23655 >> >> >> Martin-Luther-Universit?t Halle-Wittenberg >> >> Institut f?r Altertumswissenschaften >> >> Seminar f?r Indologie >> >> Emil-Abderhalden-Stra?e 9 >> >> D-06108 Halle (Saale) >> >> >> www.indologie.uni-halle.de >> >> >> ??????????? >> >> >> ??????????? ??????? ? >> >> >>> Arlo Griffiths via INDOLOGY 09.10.19 >> 16.01 Uhr >>> >> Dear colleagues, >> >> Does anyone know a way to get the ligature ???? to display without >> vir?ma in Devanagari MT, if need be through some amount of XeTeXglyph >> fiddling? >> >> I am pasting below the list of ligatures for which I have found it >> necessary so far to fake special measures using Devanagari MT. If it is >> clear that adopting a different font will make most of these special cases >> go away, please advise me. >> >> Thank you, and best wishes, >> >> Arlo Griffiths >> >> >> % to deal with font bug involving r.r >> \newcommand{\rru}{\XeTeXglyph 59 \kern-.15em\hbox{\XeTeXglyph 533}} >> >> % to make \rru with long ..rr >> \newcommand{\rruu}{\XeTeXglyph 137 \XeTeXglyph 424} >> >> %kka >> \newcommand{\kka}{\XeTeXglyph 174} >> \newcommand{\kkA}{\XeTeXglyph 174\XeTeXglyph 100} >> >> %kta >> \newcommand{\kta}{\XeTeXglyph 261} >> \newcommand{\ktam}{\XeTeXglyph 261 \XeTeXglyph 530} >> \newcommand{\ktah}{\XeTeXglyph 261 \XeTeXglyph 52} >> \newcommand{\ktA}{\XeTeXglyph 261 \XeTeXglyph 100} >> \newcommand{\ktAh}{\XeTeXglyph 261 \XeTeXglyph 100 \XeTeXglyph 52} >> \newcommand{\ktAm}{\XeTeXglyph 261 \XeTeXglyph 100 \XeTeXglyph 530} >> \newcommand{\kti}{\XeTeXglyph 401 \XeTeXglyph 261} >> \newcommand{\ktim}{\XeTeXglyph 402 \XeTeXglyph 261} >> \newcommand{\ktI}{\XeTeXglyph 261\XeTeXglyph 102} >> \newcommand{\ktu}{\XeTeXglyph 261\XeTeXglyph 432} >> \newcommand{\ktR}{\XeTeXglyph 261\XeTeXglyph 442} >> \newcommand{\kte}{\XeTeXglyph 261 \XeTeXglyph 507} >> \newcommand{\kto}{\XeTeXglyph 261 \XeTeXglyph 109} >> \newcommand{\ktva}{??????}%if we ever need this again, it would be more >> logical to name it \ktvA >> >> %to obtain proper ktya >> \newcommand{\ktya}{{\XeTeXglyph 175}{\XeTeXglyph 252}?} >> \newcommand{\ktyA}{{\XeTeXglyph 261}{\XeTeXglyph 252}?} >> >> %?ka >> \newcommand{\ngka}{\XeTeXglyph 201} >> \newcommand{\ngkA}{\XeTeXglyph 201 \XeTeXglyph 100} >> \newcommand{\ngkAm}{\XeTeXglyph 201 \XeTeXglyph 100 \XeTeXglyph 530} >> \newcommand{\ngkI}{\XeTeXglyph 201 \XeTeXglyph 102} >> \newcommand{\ngku}{\XeTeXglyph 201 \XeTeXglyph 431} >> \newcommand{\ngkti}{\XeTeXglyph 401 \XeTeXglyph 207} >> \newcommand{\ngkSva}{\XeTeXglyph 208} >> \newcommand{\ngkSve}{\XeTeXglyph 208 \XeTeXglyph 507} >> >> %?kha >> \newcommand{\ngkha}{\XeTeXglyph 202} >> \newcommand{\ngkhA}{\XeTeXglyph 202 \XeTeXglyph 100} >> \newcommand{\ngkhe}{\XeTeXglyph 202 \XeTeXglyph 507} >> >> %to obtain proper ?ga, ?ga?, ?g?, ?gi, ?g?, ?gu, ?g?, ?gr?, ?ge, ?gai, >> ?go, ?gau >> \newcommand{\ngga}{\XeTeXglyph 204} >> \newcommand{\nggah}{\XeTeXglyph 204\XeTeXglyph 52} >> \newcommand{\nggam}{\XeTeXglyph 204 \XeTeXglyph 530} >> \newcommand{\nggaa}{\XeTeXglyph 204 \XeTeXglyph 100} >> \newcommand{\nggaah}{\XeTeXglyph 204 \XeTeXglyph 100 \XeTeXglyph 52} >> \newcommand{\nggi}{\XeTeXglyph 401 \XeTeXglyph 204} >> \newcommand{\nggii}{\XeTeXglyph 204 \XeTeXglyph 102} >> \newcommand{\nggiim}{\XeTeXglyph 204 \XeTeXglyph 405} >> \newcommand{\nggu}{\XeTeXglyph 204 \XeTeXglyph 431} >> %\newcommand{\ngguu}{\XeTeXglyph 104 \XeTeXglyph 204} >> \newcommand{\nggr}{\XeTeXglyph 105 \XeTeXglyph 204} >> %\newcommand{\ngge}{\XeTeXglyph 106 \XeTeXglyph 204} >> \newcommand{\ngge}{\XeTeXglyph 204 \XeTeXglyph 507} >> \newcommand{\nggeh}{\XeTeXglyph 204 \XeTeXglyph 507 \XeTeXglyph 52} >> \newcommand{\nggai}{\XeTeXglyph 107 \XeTeXglyph 204} >> \newcommand{\nggo}{\XeTeXglyph 204 \XeTeXglyph 109} >> \newcommand{\nggau}{\XeTeXglyph 110 \XeTeXglyph 204} >> >> %to obtain proper ?gha >> \newcommand{\nggha}{\XeTeXglyph 205} >> >> %?m?, ?mau >> \newcommand{\ngma}{\XeTeXglyph 206} >> \newcommand{\ngmA}{\XeTeXglyph 206\XeTeXglyph 100} >> \newcommand{\ngmu}{\XeTeXglyph 206\XeTeXglyph 431} >> \newcommand{\ngmU}{\XeTeXglyph 206\XeTeXglyph 436} >> \newcommand{\ngmau}{\XeTeXglyph 206\XeTeXglyph 110} >> >> % to deal with font bug involving cchv >> \newcommand{\cchve}{\XeTeXglyph 217 \XeTeXglyph 72 \XeTeXglyph 362 >> \XeTeXglyph 414} >> >> %jj >> \newcommand{\jju}{\XeTeXglyph 482} >> >> % to deal with font bug involving ?ja >> \newcommand{\nja}{\XeTeXglyph 482} >> \newcommand{\njA}{\XeTeXglyph 482 \XeTeXglyph 100} >> \newcommand{\njAm}{\XeTeXglyph 482 \XeTeXglyph 100 \XeTeXglyph 530} >> \newcommand{\nji}{\XeTeXglyph 101 \XeTeXglyph 482} >> \newcommand{\njI}{\XeTeXglyph 482 \XeTeXglyph 102} >> \newcommand{\njai}{\XeTeXglyph 482 \XeTeXglyph 511} >> \newcommand{\njo}{\XeTeXglyph 482 \XeTeXglyph 109} >> >> %to make ttra ligature >> \newcommand{\ttra}{???\XeTeXglyph470} >> >> %to make ttri ligature >> \newcommand{\ttri}{\XeTeXglyph401\XeTeXglyph259\XeTeXglyph470} >> >> %ttv? >> \newcommand{\ttvA}{\XeTeXglyph259\XeTeXglyph362\XeTeXglyph100} >> >> %?bha >> NO SOLUTION YET >> >> % to make dgr? >> \newcommand{\dgr}{\XeTeXglyph 270 \XeTeXglyph 445} >> >> %to make ddv ligature >> \newcommand{\ddvA}{\XeTeXglyph 286 \XeTeXglyph 100} >> \newcommand{\ddvi}{\XeTeXglyph 101 \XeTeXglyph 286} >> >> %to make ddhv ligature >> \newcommand{\ddhv}{???\XeTeXglyph 362} >> >> %to make db >> \newcommand{\dba}{\XeTeXglyph272} >> \newcommand{\dbu}{\XeTeXglyph272\XeTeXglyph 435} >> \newcommand{\dbA}{\XeTeXglyph272 \XeTeXglyph 100} >> \newcommand{\dbi}{\XeTeXglyph 101\XeTeXglyph272} >> \newcommand{\dbR}{\XeTeXglyph272 \XeTeXglyph 445} >> \newcommand{\dbra}{\XeTeXglyph 272\raise.19em\hbox{\XeTeXglyph469}} >> \newcommand{\dbru}{???\XeTeXglyph470\raise.05em\hbox{\XeTeXglyph436}} >> >> %to make dbhu >> \newcommand{\dbhu}{\XeTeXglyph280\raise.12em\hbox{\XeTeXglyph431}} >> >> %pt >> \newcommand{\pta}{\XeTeXglyph257} >> \newcommand{\ptam}{\XeTeXglyph257\XeTeXglyph530} >> \newcommand{\ptah}{\XeTeXglyph257 \XeTeXglyph52} >> \newcommand{\ptA}{\XeTeXglyph257 \XeTeXglyph100} >> \newcommand{\ptvA}{\XeTeXglyph258 \XeTeXglyph95 \XeTeXglyph100} >> \newcommand{\ptAm}{\XeTeXglyph257 \XeTeXglyph100\XeTeXglyph530} >> \newcommand{\ptAh}{\XeTeXglyph257 \XeTeXglyph100 \XeTeXglyph52} >> \newcommand{\ptI}{\XeTeXglyph 257 \XeTeXglyph 102} >> \newcommand{\ptim}{\XeTeXglyph 402 \XeTeXglyph 257} >> \newcommand{\pte}{\XeTeXglyph257 \XeTeXglyph414} >> \newcommand{\pto}{\XeTeXglyph257 \XeTeXglyph109} >> >> %-om? >> \newcommand{\coM}{??\kern.2em\raise.12em\hbox{\XeTeXglyph 531}} >> \newcommand{\dyoM}{????\raise.12em\hbox{\XeTeXglyph 531}} >> \newcommand{\moM}{??\kern.2em\raise.12em\hbox{\XeTeXglyph 531}} >> \newcommand{\roM}{??\raise.12em\hbox{\XeTeXglyph 531}} >> >> %??v >> \newcommand{\STvA}{\XeTeXglyph 368\XeTeXglyph 361\XeTeXglyph 100} >> \newcommand{\STve}{\XeTeXglyph 368\XeTeXglyph 361\XeTeXglyph 414} >> >> %h?a >> \newcommand{\hNa}{\XeTeXglyph393} >> \newcommand{\hNA}{\XeTeXglyph393\XeTeXglyph100} >> \newcommand{\hNi}{\XeTeXglyph101\XeTeXglyph393} >> \newcommand{\hNI}{\XeTeXglyph393\XeTeXglyph102} >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> INDOLOGY mailing list >> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info >> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing >> committee) >> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or >> unsubscribe) >> > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From sravana.varma at gmail.com Wed Oct 9 16:41:49 2019 From: sravana.varma at gmail.com (Sravana Borkataky-Varma) Date: Wed, 09 Oct 19 11:41:49 -0500 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Reference material!! Message-ID: Hello, A student in my Introduction to Hinduism class wants to evaluate the epics from a literary perspective. He plans to do a character analysis and make references to modern literature. What scholarship would you all suggest? Thank you. Best, Sravana --- Dr. Sravana Borkataky-Varma Faculty Religious Studies Program University of Houston Co-Chair, American Academy of Religion, Yoga in Theory and Practice -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From andrew.nicholson at stonybrook.edu Wed Oct 9 19:42:00 2019 From: andrew.nicholson at stonybrook.edu (Andrew Nicholson) Date: Wed, 09 Oct 19 15:42:00 -0400 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Motilal Banarsidass Q. Message-ID: Dear Friends, A colleague has asked me a question about Motilal Banarsidass. Has there been a schism that has led to two the existence of two different businesses, one called Motilal Banarsidass *Publishers *in Jawahar Nagar and the other called Motilal Banarsidass *Publications* in Daryaganj? If so, what is the exact relationship between these two businesses? It also appears that the old website (www.mlbd.com) is no longer functioning. Any light that might be shed on this confusing matter would be very welcome. Feel free to contact me off list if you prefer. With best wishes, Andrew Andrew J. Nicholson, Ph.D. Associate Professor Asian & Asian American Studies Stony Brook University Stony Brook, NY 11794-5343 USA (631) 632-4030 http://philosophicalrasika.com/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jpo at austin.utexas.edu Wed Oct 9 19:47:06 2019 From: jpo at austin.utexas.edu (Olivelle, J P) Date: Wed, 09 Oct 19 19:47:06 +0000 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Motilal Banarsidass Q. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <830D5561-A204-4CBF-A5CD-F54E5502CF89@austin.utexas.edu> As far as I know there is no schism. After the older brother died, Rajeev Jain took over. I had dinner with all the brothers two years ago. I think part of the business has mover to Daryaganj. If some thing has happened in the last year or so, I am not aware. Patrick On Oct 9, 2019, at 2:42 PM, Andrew Nicholson via INDOLOGY > wrote: Dear Friends, A colleague has asked me a question about Motilal Banarsidass. Has there been a schism that has led to two the existence of two different businesses, one called Motilal Banarsidass Publishers in Jawahar Nagar and the other called Motilal Banarsidass Publications in Daryaganj? If so, what is the exact relationship between these two businesses? It also appears that the old website (www.mlbd.com) is no longer functioning. Any light that might be shed on this confusing matter would be very welcome. Feel free to contact me off list if you prefer. With best wishes, Andrew Andrew J. Nicholson, Ph.D. Associate Professor Asian & Asian American Studies Stony Brook University Stony Brook, NY 11794-5343 USA (631) 632-4030 http://philosophicalrasika.com/ _______________________________________________ INDOLOGY mailing list INDOLOGY at list.indology.info indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) This message is from an external sender. Learn more about why this << matters at https://links.utexas.edu/rtyclf. << -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ondracka at ff.cuni.cz Wed Oct 9 20:05:58 2019 From: ondracka at ff.cuni.cz (=?utf-8?Q?Lubom=C3=ADr_Ondra=C4=8Dka?=) Date: Wed, 09 Oct 19 20:05:58 +0000 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Motilal Banarsidass Q. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20191009220729.ebd12149228ffa2b191b7bc5@ff.cuni.cz> Yes, it seems there are indeed two separate companies now: Motilal Banarsidass Publishing House https://www.mlbd.in/ Motilal Banarsidass Publishers http://www.mlbd.co.in But I do not know what is the relation between them. Best Lubomir On Wed, 9 Oct 2019 15:42:00 -0400 Andrew Nicholson via INDOLOGY wrote: > Dear Friends, > > A colleague has asked me a question about Motilal Banarsidass. Has there > been a schism that has led to two the existence of two different > businesses, one called Motilal Banarsidass *Publishers *in Jawahar Nagar > and the other called Motilal Banarsidass *Publications* in Daryaganj? If > so, what is the exact relationship between these two businesses? > > It also appears that the old website (www.mlbd.com) is no longer > functioning. > > Any light that might be shed on this confusing matter would be very > welcome. Feel free to contact me off list if you prefer. > > With best wishes, > Andrew > > Andrew J. Nicholson, Ph.D. > Associate Professor > Asian & Asian American Studies > Stony Brook University > Stony Brook, NY 11794-5343 USA > (631) 632-4030 > http://philosophicalrasika.com/ From mkapstei at uchicago.edu Wed Oct 9 20:14:24 2019 From: mkapstei at uchicago.edu (Matthew Kapstein) Date: Wed, 09 Oct 19 20:14:24 +0000 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Reference material!! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Dear Sravana, If nothing else, please encourage your student to read A.K. Ramanujan, "Three Hundred Ramayanas: Five Examples and Three Thoughts on Translation." good luck, Matthew Matthew Kapstein Directeur d'?tudes, Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes Numata Visiting Professor of Buddhist Studies, The University of Chicago ________________________________ From: INDOLOGY on behalf of Sravana Borkataky-Varma via INDOLOGY Sent: Wednesday, October 9, 2019 11:41 AM To: indology at list.indology.info Subject: [INDOLOGY] Reference material!! Hello, A student in my Introduction to Hinduism class wants to evaluate the epics from a literary perspective. He plans to do a character analysis and make references to modern literature. What scholarship would you all suggest? Thank you. Best, Sravana --- Dr. Sravana Borkataky-Varma Faculty Religious Studies Program University of Houston Co-Chair, American Academy of Religion, Yoga in Theory and Practice -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From wujastyk at gmail.com Wed Oct 9 21:20:30 2019 From: wujastyk at gmail.com (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Wed, 09 Oct 19 14:20:30 -0700 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Highlights from the Sanskrit corpora In-Reply-To: <2c23fad2-119a-7b68-cd4c-6ab6097b1c11@univie.ac.at> Message-ID: Yes. > in this case, actually authors, who obviously transferred their copyright to the still existing BORI. We don't know if Edgerton, Sukthankar and others actually signed over their copyright to BORI. That would require a search of the BORI archives. But also, if BORI paid the editors for their work, it could be classed as "work for hire" in which case BORI would have had the copyright automatically on that legal basis. What you say about 25 years is right, as far as I recall from that article I cited, as far as the text goes. It might be that the apparatus falls under the 60-year rule. Bear in mind that although India and most nations are signatories to the 1952 Geneva Universal Copyright Convention , there are many national laws and exceptions. So one has to understand (C) in particular national legal contexts. On Tue, 1 Oct 2019 at 01:46, Dominik Haas via INDOLOGY < indology at list.indology.info> wrote: > Dear Jonathan and Dominik, > > I just had the very same thoughts. I'm not an expert of law either, but > technically speaking, the BORI Mah?bh?rata is not simply an edition, but a > new text created by its editors between 1919 and 1966. The editors are, > in this case, actually authors, who obviously transferred their copyright > to the still existing BORI. So unless an ancient and complete manuscript > appears which contains the very same text as the BORI Mah?bh?rata (very > unlikely, I would say), the BORI holds the copyright of its text. According > to German law (mentioned by Dominik), however, it does not ? 25 years have > long gone past since the publication of the original edition. The co-owned > copyright of Prof. Tokunaga (1994), too, would expire this year ? in > Germany. > > Of course, authors also have the copyright to transcriptions of their text > ? just imagine someone would transcribe a talk you give and then publish it > as their own text. I would argue that creating an electronic transcription > of a (copyrighted) Devan?gar? text isn't much different. > > Best regards, > > Dominik A. Haas > > > __________________ > *Dominik Haas, BA MA* > PhD student, University of Vienna > dominik.haas at univie.ac.at > ORCID: 0000-0002-8505-6112 > univie.academia.edu/DominikHaas > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From wujastyk at gmail.com Wed Oct 9 21:28:04 2019 From: wujastyk at gmail.com (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Wed, 09 Oct 19 14:28:04 -0700 Subject: =?utf-8?B?UmU6IFtJTkRPTE9HWV0ge+CkreCkvuCksOCkpOClgOCkr+CkteCkv+CkpuCljeCkteCkpOCljeCkquCksOCkv+Ckt+CkpOCljX0gUmVxdWVzdCBmb3IgRW1icnlvbG9neSAvIEFuYXRvbXkgaW4gQXl1cnZlZGE=?= In-Reply-To: Message-ID: - Das, Rahul Peter. 2003. *The Origin of the Life of a Human Being. Conception and the Female According to Ancient Indian Medical and Sexological Literature*. Indian Medical Tradition. Vol. 6. Delhi: Motilal Banarsidas. -- Professor Dominik Wujastyk , Singhmar Chair in Classical Indian Society and Polity , Department of History and Classics , University of Alberta, Canada . South Asia at the U of A: sas.ualberta.ca On Sat, 5 Oct 2019 at 04:14, Dhaval Patel via INDOLOGY < indology at list.indology.info> wrote: > > On Sat, 5 Oct 2019, 16:14 Dhaval Patel, wrote: > >> Respected Scholars, >> >> While working on edition of a work, I am faced with a long Ayurvedic >> tract. Can any of you suggest me to >> >> 1. Suggested text for a beginner for embryology and anatomy in Ayurveda. >> 2. Any papers which discusses embryology and anatomy in Ayurveda. >> >> With regards, >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "???????????????????" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to bvparishat+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. >> To view this discussion on the web visit >> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bvparishat/CADSGPzW2mq1D7-hQO73Szm0J-3c08NxUWQp7i909A4Dt0inZ%2Bw%40mail.gmail.com >> >> . >> > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing > committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or > unsubscribe) > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From wujastyk at gmail.com Wed Oct 9 21:36:27 2019 From: wujastyk at gmail.com (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Wed, 09 Oct 19 14:36:27 -0700 Subject: [INDOLOGY] question about a Jaina practice In-Reply-To: Message-ID: See the lovely illustration in the Wellcome *Sa?pu?odbhavatantra* MS: - https://wellcomecollection.org/works/c48az6ky For correct metadata, see the entry in my *Handlist* of 1985, pages 153-154 . -- Professor Dominik Wujastyk , Singhmar Chair in Classical Indian Society and Polity , Department of History and Classics , University of Alberta, Canada . South Asia at the U of A: sas.ualberta.ca On Thu, 3 Oct 2019 at 09:13, Madhav Deshpande via INDOLOGY < indology at list.indology.info> wrote: > Is there any pictorial description/representation of these assisting > devices in iconography or Jain/Buddhist/Hindu Yoga practice? > > Madhav M. Deshpande > Professor Emeritus, Sanskrit and Linguistics > University of Michigan, Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA > Senior Fellow, Oxford Center for Hindu Studies > > [Residence: Campbell, California, USA] > > > On Thu, Oct 3, 2019 at 8:52 AM Rupert Gethin via INDOLOGY < > indology at list.indology.info> wrote: > >> Since it is appears not to be mentioned in the article cited by Lubomir >> or in Philipp?s article (forgive me if I have missed it), it is perhaps >> worth adding that this kind of strap is also mentioned in Pali sources >> where it is called ?yogapa??a. In the Visuddhimagga Buddhaghosa describes >> the ?sitter?s practice? (nesajjika?ga), the last in the list of 13 ascetic >> practices, as follows: >> >> 'This has three grades too. Herein, one who is strict is not allowed a >> back-rest or cloth band or binding-strap (?yogapa??a). The medium one is >> allowed any one of these three. The mild one is allowed a back-rest, a >> cloth band, a binding-strap, a cushion, a ?five-limb? and a ?seven-limb" >> [chair].? (After ???amoli, Path of Purification, II.74) >> >> Best wishes, >> >> Rupert >> -- >> *Rupert Gethin* >> >> University of Bristol >> Department of Religion and Theology >> 3 Woodland Road >> Bristol BS8 1TB, UK >> >> Email: Rupert.Gethin at bristol.ac.uk >> >> On 3 Oct 2019, at 16:39, Philipp Maas via INDOLOGY < >> indology at list.indology.info> wrote: >> >> Dear Herman, >> Further textual references to the use of a yoga strap in yoga literature >> can be found on p. 71 of my article "'Sthirasukham ?sanam': Posture and >> Performance in Classical Yoga and Beyond", which you find published in >> open-access here >> >> . >> >> Best wishes, >> >> Philipp >> __________________________ >> >> Dr. Philipp A. Maas >> Research Associate >> Institut f?r Indologie und Zentralasienwissenschaften >> Universit?t Leipzig >> ___________________________ >> >> https://spp1448.academia.edu/PhilippMaas >> >> >> >> Virenfrei. >> www.avast.com >> >> >> Am Do., 3. Okt. 2019 um 16:10 Uhr schrieb Tieken, H.J.H. via INDOLOGY < >> indology at list.indology.info>: >> >>> Dear List members, >>> >>> Jaina monks, or their followers, are often depicted sitting with a strap >>> going around their bodies and legs. (a few years ago I saw this contraption >>> in a posh interior decorating shop in Leiden as an alternative chair!) >>> Could anyone tell me if this strap, or sitting supported by this strap, had >>> a (Sanskrit, MIA or NIA) name. By the way, it is not a particular Jaina >>> practice. If I remember well, the strap can also be seen on, for instance, >>> the Borobudur. >>> >>> Herman >>> >>> Herman Tieken >>> Stationsweg 58 >>> 2515 BP Den Haag >>> The Netherlands >>> 00 31 (0)70 2208127 >>> website: hermantieken.com >>> _______________________________________________ >>> INDOLOGY mailing list >>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info >>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing >>> committee) >>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options >>> or unsubscribe) >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> INDOLOGY mailing list >> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info >> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing >> committee) >> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or >> unsubscribe) >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> INDOLOGY mailing list >> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info >> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing >> committee) >> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or >> unsubscribe) >> > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing > committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or > unsubscribe) > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mehner at sub.uni-goettingen.de Thu Oct 10 10:49:57 2019 From: mehner at sub.uni-goettingen.de (Mehner, Maximilian | GRETIL) Date: Thu, 10 Oct 19 10:49:57 +0000 Subject: [INDOLOGY] GRETIL update #495 Message-ID: <4160f462eb8e43cfa5fa3eec8f19fa2e@sub.uni-goettingen.de> GRETIL is pleased to be able to report the following addition(s) to its collection: Texts added: Ksemendra: Sevyasevakopadesa Ksama Rava: Mithyagrahanam __________________________________________________________________________ GRETIL - Goettingen Register of Electronic Texts in Indian Languages: http://gretil.sub.uni-goettingen.de/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From krishnaprasadah.g at gmail.com Thu Oct 10 13:15:31 2019 From: krishnaprasadah.g at gmail.com (Krishnaprasad G) Date: Thu, 10 Oct 19 18:45:31 +0530 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Info about Vanibhusana OmkarPrasad Message-ID: Dear all Is any one aware of Sanskrit Scholar Omkar Prasad Dvivedi from Punjab. When did he born? Still alive ? What are his works. Biographical details. Any pointers is highly appreciated. Thanks -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jpo at austin.utexas.edu Thu Oct 10 13:56:13 2019 From: jpo at austin.utexas.edu (Olivelle, J P) Date: Thu, 10 Oct 19 13:56:13 +0000 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Query Message-ID: Friends: I have come across a citation from what is called ?n?maratnam?l??, some kind of a lexicography. The verse cited is: mayur may?ro gom?yu? s?g?la? ceti ?abdita? | With thanks, Patrick From wujastyk at gmail.com Thu Oct 10 19:20:20 2019 From: wujastyk at gmail.com (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Thu, 10 Oct 19 13:20:20 -0600 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Sheldon Pollock sharing draft materials from his desk Message-ID: Sheldon Pollock is making available drafts of some of his editions and translations in-progress in the hope that they may prove of some use to others even in their draft state. The first post is his *editio princeps* (along with all supporting manuscript evidence) of Gop?la Bha??a?s *Rasatara?gi??*, the only commentary on Rudra Bha??a?s *???g?ratilaka *(an *ala?k?ra* work datable to around 1000 CE)*.* What makes this commentary additionally interesting is that Gop?la Bha??a, a sixteenth-century scholar, should likely be identified with the Gop?la Bha??a who was a direct discipline of Caitanya and author of the most important ritual handbook of Bengali Vaishnavism, the *Haribhaktivil?sa*. These materials are available here under "Works in Progress." -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From vjroebuck at btinternet.com Fri Oct 11 08:20:20 2019 From: vjroebuck at btinternet.com (Valerie Roebuck) Date: Fri, 11 Oct 19 09:20:20 +0100 Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_[INDOLOGY]_Image_=E2=80=98the_sixty_saints/monks_of_India=E2=80=99_(Rapha=C3=ABl_Voix)?= In-Reply-To: <75d7a313-161e-4759-a7ce-de82d55aa125@Spark> Message-ID: <50F2FA24-F131-4E71-8CEB-03DF3619B478@btinternet.com> Dear Rapha?l Have you got a link to the images? Valerie J Roebuck Manchester, UK > On 9 Oct 2019, at 11:07, Voix Raphael via INDOLOGY wrote: > > Dear all, > > I am researching on a specific image representing Indian ascetics under the title of ?the family of the divine nectar? or the ?saints of India?. As the attached document shows, this kind of image has the particularity to gather side by side ascetics (mostly, but not exclusively, celibate male ones) belonging to different spiritual lineage such as ??iva, Vai??ava, but also Buddhist, Jain or Sikh. The numerous variants, I have been able to collect, differ both in the numbers of ascetics represented (42, 46, 51, 52, sometimes more), as well as their identity. Nevertheless, considering the great majority of Bengali gurus represented in each picture, it seems likely to be a regional phenomenon. > > Has any of you encountered this type of image in other states of India (I have some pieces from Maharashtra) ? If so, would you be willing to share it with me in private mode ? Does any of you know of some old versions (before the photo area) of such representation which the authors of this type of image could draw their inspiration from ? > > I would be very grateful to those of you who will answer that query as it will help me ascertain the scope of my analysis. > > All the best, > > > _______________________________________ > Rapha?l Voix > Research Fellow at the French National Center for Scientific Research > SAMAJ - South Asia Multidisciplinary Academic Journal - Editor-in-Chief > Member of the french Institute of Pondichery (Umifre 21 CNRS/MAEE) > Associate Member of the Center for South Asian Studies (UMR 8564 CNRS/EHESS) > Whats'App number : 33 (0)6 28 35 51 86 > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rolfheiner.koch at gmail.com Fri Oct 11 08:55:17 2019 From: rolfheiner.koch at gmail.com (Rolf Heinrich Koch) Date: Fri, 11 Oct 19 10:55:17 +0200 Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_[INDOLOGY]_Image_=E2=80=98the_sixty_saints/monks_of_India=E2=80=99_(Rapha=C3=ABl_Voix)?= In-Reply-To: <50F2FA24-F131-4E71-8CEB-03DF3619B478@btinternet.com> Message-ID: <245887a0-6273-c17c-1785-def265d0ec5d@gmail.com> There is a youtube video "the 43 monks of India" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c_PfY1uX_Qs and many similar pictures in the internet. Heiner Am 11.10.2019 um 10:20 schrieb Valerie Roebuck via INDOLOGY: > Dear Rapha?l > > Have you got a link to the images? > > Valerie J Roebuck > Manchester, UK > > > >> On 9 Oct 2019, at 11:07, Voix Raphael via INDOLOGY >> > wrote: >> >> Dear all, >> >> I am researching on a specific image representing Indian ascetics >> under the title of ?the family of the divine nectar? or the ?saints >> of India?. As the attached document shows, this kind of image has the >> particularity to gather side by side ascetics (mostly, but not >> exclusively, celibate male ones) belonging to different spiritual >> lineage such as ??iva, Vai??ava, but also Buddhist, Jain or Sikh. The >> numerous variants, I have been able to collect, differ both in the >> numbers of ascetics represented (42, 46, 51, 52, sometimes more), as >> well as their identity. Nevertheless, considering the great majority >> of Bengali gurus represented in each picture, it seems likely to be a >> regional phenomenon. >> >> Has any of you encountered this type of image in other states of >> India (I have some pieces from Maharashtra) ? If so, would you be >> willing to share it with me in private mode ?? Does any of you know >> of some old versions (before the photo area) of such representation >> which the authors of this type of image could draw their inspiration >> from ? >> >> I would be very grateful to those of you who will answer that query >> as it will help me ascertain the scope of my analysis. >> >> All the best, >> >> >> _______________________________________ >> *Rapha?l Voix* >> Research Fellow at the French National Center for Scientific Research >> SAMAJ - South Asia Multidisciplinary Academic Journal - Editor-in-Chief >> Member of the french Institute of Pondichery (Umifre 21 CNRS/MAEE) >> Associate Member of the Center for South Asian Studies?(UMR 8564 >> CNRS/EHESS) >> Whats'App number : 33 (0)6 28 35 51 86 >> _______________________________________________ >> INDOLOGY mailing list >> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info >> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing >> committee) >> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options >> or unsubscribe) > > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) -- www.rolfheinrichkoch.wordpress.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From raphael.voix at gmail.com Fri Oct 11 09:28:15 2019 From: raphael.voix at gmail.com (Voix Raphael) Date: Fri, 11 Oct 19 14:58:15 +0530 Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_[INDOLOGY]_Image_=E2=80=98the_sixty_saints/monks_of_India=E2=80=99_(Rapha=C3=ABl_Voix)?= In-Reply-To: <50F2FA24-F131-4E71-8CEB-03DF3619B478@btinternet.com> Message-ID: Dear Val?rie, Thank you for your interest.?Although it does appear as an attached document in the mail I sent, it seems few in the list received it. Here is a link to one of the numerous images I collected. All the best, Rapha?l. Le 11 oct. 2019 ? 13:50 +0530, Valerie Roebuck , a ?crit : > Dear Rapha?l > > Have you got a link to the images? > > Valerie J Roebuck > Manchester, UK > > > > > On 9 Oct 2019, at 11:07, Voix Raphael via INDOLOGY wrote: > > > > Dear all, > > > > I am researching on a specific image representing Indian ascetics under the title of ?the family of the divine nectar? or the ?saints of India?. As the attached document shows, this kind of image has the particularity to gather side by side ascetics (mostly, but not exclusively, celibate male ones) belonging to different spiritual lineage such as ??iva, Vai??ava, but also Buddhist, Jain or Sikh. The numerous variants, I have been able to collect, differ both in the numbers of ascetics represented (42, 46, 51, 52, sometimes more), as well as their identity. Nevertheless, considering the great majority of Bengali gurus represented in each picture, it seems likely to be a regional phenomenon. > > > > Has any of you encountered this type of image in other states of India (I have some pieces from Maharashtra) ? If so, would you be willing to share it with me in private mode ?? Does any of you know of some old versions (before the photo area) of such representation which the authors of this type of image could draw their inspiration from ? > > > > I would be very grateful to those of you who will answer that query as it will help me ascertain the scope of my analysis. > > > > All the best, > > > > > > _______________________________________ > > Rapha?l Voix > > Research Fellow at the French National Center for Scientific Research > > SAMAJ - South Asia Multidisciplinary Academic Journal - Editor-in-Chief > > Member of the french Institute of Pondichery (Umifre 21 CNRS/MAEE) > > Associate Member of the Center for South Asian Studies?(UMR 8564 CNRS/EHESS) > > Whats'App number : 33 (0)6 28 35 51 86 > > _______________________________________________ > > INDOLOGY mailing list > > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) > > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mmdesh at umich.edu Sat Oct 12 04:05:42 2019 From: mmdesh at umich.edu (Madhav Deshpande) Date: Fri, 11 Oct 19 21:05:42 -0700 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Greek accent Message-ID: Someone asked me if Greek verb accent has the prosodic loss of accent, if it comes after a non-verb, like the Sanskrit verb accent [cf. P??ini: ???? ????:]? I have only secondary knowledge about Greek, and could not answer this question. Hope someone can clarify this issue to me. Best, Madhav M. Deshpande Professor Emeritus, Sanskrit and Linguistics University of Michigan, Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA Senior Fellow, Oxford Center for Hindu Studies [Residence: Campbell, California, USA] -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From shrinsaha at gmail.com Sat Oct 12 06:37:55 2019 From: shrinsaha at gmail.com (Niranjan Saha) Date: Sat, 12 Oct 19 12:07:55 +0530 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Interpolation in Ramayana, Mahabharata etc. Message-ID: Dear list, Namaste! Please see if you could respond to Professor Bhattacharya's query below (who I've marked a copy to). ''Do you know any Sanskritist well versed in the tenets of textual criticism? My question is: Are the long Additional Passages in the critical editions of the Harivamza, Mahabharata, RamayaNa, etc. to be treated as interpolations or not''. With regards, Sincerely yours, Niranjan Saha, PhD (London), PhD (ABD), Madras; FRAS Publications: https://ismdhanbad.academia.edu/NiranjanSaha -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From catherine.clementin-ojha at ehess.fr Sat Oct 12 07:00:38 2019 From: catherine.clementin-ojha at ehess.fr (Clementin Catherine) Date: Sat, 12 Oct 19 09:00:38 +0200 Subject: [INDOLOGY] S. Ganesan Message-ID: <39501965.1464.1570863638774.JavaMail.zimbra@ehess.fr> Dear List members,Could someone help me find some biographical data on S. Ganesan, the publisher of Madras in the 1920s?Thank you,Catherine Clementin-Ojha -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From matthew.scarborough at cantab.net Sat Oct 12 12:31:22 2019 From: matthew.scarborough at cantab.net (Matthew Scarborough) Date: Sat, 12 Oct 19 13:31:22 +0100 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Greek accent In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <297bb93253e25c913252b5e8a498e5dc@cantab.net> Dear Madhav, Normally in Greek the rules of verbal accentuation are different from Sanskrit, where the prosodic accent is retained, has become recessive, limited to the final three syllables, and placement conditioned by the syllabic weight of the two. However, there are two verbs that do not obey these rules - ???? 'I am' (= ?smi < *h?es-) and ???? 'I say' (< *b?eh?-) - which are enclitic in the indicative and *do* behave similarly to Vedic where they loose their prosodic accent when followed by a non-verb. One exception to this is that ???? normally bears an accented as ????? 'there is' when clause-initial and has existential meaning. I think this is the same as verbal accentuation in Vedic, if I am recalling how verbal accentuation in Vedic works correctly. >From the historical point of view, as far as I recall I think it's generally regarded that these two enclitic verbs continue an inherited situation shared with Sanskrit since it seems fairly clear that the law of limitation - which with a few exceptions normally affects all nominal as well as (finite) verbal accentual placement - clearly appears to be a secondary innovation on the part of Greek. As a good recent descriptive guide to Greek accentuation, I would recommend Philomen Probert's _A New Short Guide to the Accentuation of Ancient Greek_ (Bristol, 2003). I hope this helps clarify your question. Kind regards, Matthew --- Dr. M. J. C. Scarborough Sessional Lecturer (Classics) Department of the Humanities MacEwan University Room 7-353C, City Centre Campus 10700 104 Ave, Edmonton AB, T5J 4S2 On 2019-10-12 05:05, Madhav Deshpande via INDOLOGY wrote: > Someone asked me if Greek verb accent has the prosodic loss of accent, if it comes after a non-verb, like the Sanskrit verb accent [cf. P??ini: ???? ????:]? I have only secondary knowledge about Greek, and could not answer this question. Hope someone can clarify this issue to me. Best, > > Madhav M. Deshpande > Professor Emeritus, Sanskrit and Linguistics > University of Michigan, Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA > Senior Fellow, Oxford Center for Hindu Studies > > [Residence: Campbell, California, USA] > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mmdesh at umich.edu Sat Oct 12 13:33:12 2019 From: mmdesh at umich.edu (Madhav Deshpande) Date: Sat, 12 Oct 19 06:33:12 -0700 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Greek accent In-Reply-To: <297bb93253e25c913252b5e8a498e5dc@cantab.net> Message-ID: Thanks, Matthew. Will look up Probert's book. Best, Madhav Madhav M. Deshpande Professor Emeritus, Sanskrit and Linguistics University of Michigan, Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA Senior Fellow, Oxford Center for Hindu Studies [Residence: Campbell, California, USA] On Sat, Oct 12, 2019 at 5:31 AM Matthew Scarborough < matthew.scarborough at cantab.net> wrote: > Dear Madhav, > > Normally in Greek the rules of verbal accentuation are different from > Sanskrit, where the prosodic accent is retained, has become recessive, > limited to the final three syllables, and placement conditioned by the > syllabic weight of the two. > > However, there are two verbs that do not obey these rules ? ???? 'I am' (= > ?smi < *h?es-) and ???? 'I say' (< *b?eh?-) ? which are enclitic in the > indicative and *do* behave similarly to Vedic where they loose their > prosodic accent when followed by a non-verb. One exception to this is that > ???? normally bears an accented as ????? 'there is' when clause-initial and > has existential meaning. I think this is the same as verbal accentuation in > Vedic, if I am recalling how verbal accentuation in Vedic works correctly. > > From the historical point of view, as far as I recall I think it's > generally regarded that these two enclitic verbs continue an inherited > situation shared with Sanskrit since it seems fairly clear that the law of > limitation ? which with a few exceptions normally affects all nominal as > well as (finite) verbal accentual placement ? clearly appears to be a > secondary innovation on the part of Greek. > > As a good recent descriptive guide to Greek accentuation, I would > recommend Philomen Probert's *A New Short Guide to the Accentuation of > Ancient Greek* (Bristol, 2003). > > I hope this helps clarify your question. > > Kind regards, > > Matthew > --- > Dr. M. J. C. Scarborough > Sessional Lecturer (Classics) > > Department of the Humanities > MacEwan University > Room 7-353C, City Centre Campus > 10700 104 Ave, Edmonton AB, T5J 4S2 > > > On 2019-10-12 05:05, Madhav Deshpande via INDOLOGY wrote: > > Someone asked me if Greek verb accent has the prosodic loss of accent, if > it comes after a non-verb, like the Sanskrit verb accent [cf. P??ini: ???? > ????:]? I have only secondary knowledge about Greek, and could not answer > this question. Hope someone can clarify this issue to me. Best, > > Madhav M. Deshpande > Professor Emeritus, Sanskrit and Linguistics > University of Michigan, Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA > Senior Fellow, Oxford Center for Hindu Studies > > [Residence: Campbell, California, USA] > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing > committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or > unsubscribe) > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mailmealakendudas at rediffmail.com Sat Oct 12 13:42:51 2019 From: mailmealakendudas at rediffmail.com (alakendu das) Date: Sat, 12 Oct 19 13:42:51 +0000 Subject: [INDOLOGY] A book to learn Greek. Message-ID: <20191012134251.2748.qmail@f4mail-235-128.rediffmail.com> Respected scholars,Can anyone suggest a beginner's book  on Greek language.Alakendu Das. Sent from RediffmailNG on Android -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rhododaktylos at gmail.com Sat Oct 12 14:34:03 2019 From: rhododaktylos at gmail.com (Antonia Ruppel) Date: Sat, 12 Oct 19 15:34:03 +0100 Subject: [INDOLOGY] A book to learn Greek. In-Reply-To: <20191012134251.2748.qmail@f4mail-235-128.rediffmail.com> Message-ID: Dear Alakendu, My classroom favourites for teaching Greek have long been Athenaze (Oxford UP) and Learn to Read Greek (Yale UP). They both come in several volumes and thus are not the cheapest; but their length is due to the number of resources they make available. (Plenty of good, author-written readings in Athenaze, large amounts of annotated original Greek readings in LTRG. However, if you want to use the book just for yourself (rather than to teach a group of students with varying strengths and interests), the one-volume Introduction to Attic Greek by Mastronarde may be the way to go, especially for someone who already knows Sanskrit and thus is already familiar with most of the grammatical categories and concepts we find in Greek. It also comes with its own supplementary website: http://atticgreek.org. There are various others - if none of the above sound good, let me know what you are looking for and I'll be happy to talk more about what else is out there. All the best, Antonia On Sat, 12 Oct 2019 at 14:43, alakendu das via INDOLOGY < indology at list.indology.info> wrote: > Respected scholars, > Can anyone suggest a beginner's book on Greek language. > Alakendu Das. > > > > Sent from RediffmailNG on Android > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing > committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or > unsubscribe) > -- Dr Antonia Ruppel cambridge-sanskrit.org allthingssanskrit.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mailmealakendudas at rediffmail.com Sat Oct 12 15:07:21 2019 From: mailmealakendudas at rediffmail.com (alakendu das) Date: Sat, 12 Oct 19 15:07:21 +0000 Subject: [INDOLOGY] A book to learn Greek. Message-ID: <1570891594.S.71151.autosave.drafts.1570892841.32257@webmail.rediffmail.com> Dr.Ruppel, Thank you very much for elaborating on the matter.I am keen to get access to a Beginner's book on Greek to get an insight of a belief among scholars, beginning with as early as Sir William Jones,namely an identity between Sanskrit and Greek . Though,I am not a student of Linguistics, but of Indology and Vedanta Philosophy,.... still i intend to understand Indo-European culture ,to a certain degree deeper, may be as an extension of my Indological roots.( Language , being a component of culture)I shall certainly look for the books you referred.Hope,they are  available through Amazon.Alakendu Das. Sent from RediffmailNG on Android From: Antonia Ruppel <rhododaktylos at gmail.com> Sent: Sat, 12 Oct 2019 20:04:39 GMT+0530 To: alakendu das <mailmealakendudas at rediffmail.com> Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] A book to learn Greek. Dear Alakendu, My classroom favourites for teaching Greek have long been Athenaze (Oxford UP) and Learn to Read Greek (Yale UP). They both come in several volumes and thus are not the cheapest; but their length is due to the number of resources they make available. (Plenty of good, author-written readings in Athenaze, large amounts of annotated original Greek readings in LTRG.  However, if you want to use the book just for yourself (rather than to teach a group of students with varying strengths and interests), the one-volume Introduction to Attic Greek by Mastronarde may be the way to go, especially for someone who already knows Sanskrit and thus is already familiar with most of the grammatical categories and concepts we find in Greek. It also comes with its own supplementary website: http://atticgreek.org. There are various others - if none of the above sound good, let me know what you are looking for and I'll be happy to talk more about what else is out there. All the best,    Antonia On Sat, 12 Oct 2019 at 14:43, alakendu das via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info> wrote: Respected scholars,Can anyone suggest a beginner's book  on Greek language.Alakendu Das. Sent from RediffmailNG on Android _______________________________________________ INDOLOGY mailing list INDOLOGY at list.indology.info indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) -- Dr Antonia Ruppel cambridge-sanskrit.org allthingssanskrit.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mailmealakendudas at rediffmail.com Sat Oct 12 15:20:45 2019 From: mailmealakendudas at rediffmail.com (alakendu das) Date: Sat, 12 Oct 19 15:20:45 +0000 Subject: [INDOLOGY] A book to learn Greek. Message-ID: <1570892851.S.68373.autosave.drafts.1570893645.8250@webmail.rediffmail.com> Dr Ruppel,Thanks for elaborating on the matter.The reason why I would like to get access to a Beginner's book on Greek,is to get an insight of a belief among scholars, beginning with as early as Sir William Jones, regarding identity between Sanskrit and Greek. Though not a student of Linguistics, but a Post-graduate in Indology, and a student of Vedanta Philosophy, I intend to understand Indo-European culture , to a certain degree deeper, may be as an extension of my Indological awareness.I hope the books you mentioned , would be available through Amazon.Alakendu Das. Sent from RediffmailNG on Android From: Antonia Ruppel <rhododaktylos at gmail.com> Sent: Sat, 12 Oct 2019 20:04:39 GMT+0530 To: alakendu das <mailmealakendudas at rediffmail.com> Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] A book to learn Greek. Dear Alakendu, My classroom favourites for teaching Greek have long been Athenaze (Oxford UP) and Learn to Read Greek (Yale UP). They both come in several volumes and thus are not the cheapest; but their length is due to the number of resources they make available. (Plenty of good, author-written readings in Athenaze, large amounts of annotated original Greek readings in LTRG.  However, if you want to use the book just for yourself (rather than to teach a group of students with varying strengths and interests), the one-volume Introduction to Attic Greek by Mastronarde may be the way to go, especially for someone who already knows Sanskrit and thus is already familiar with most of the grammatical categories and concepts we find in Greek. It also comes with its own supplementary website: http://atticgreek.org. There are various others - if none of the above sound good, let me know what you are looking for and I'll be happy to talk more about what else is out there. All the best,    Antonia On Sat, 12 Oct 2019 at 14:43, alakendu das via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info> wrote: Respected scholars,Can anyone suggest a beginner's book  on Greek language.Alakendu Das. Sent from RediffmailNG on Android _______________________________________________ INDOLOGY mailing list INDOLOGY at list.indology.info indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) -- Dr Antonia Ruppel cambridge-sanskrit.org allthingssanskrit.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rhododaktylos at gmail.com Sat Oct 12 15:32:05 2019 From: rhododaktylos at gmail.com (Antonia Ruppel) Date: Sat, 12 Oct 19 16:32:05 +0100 Subject: [INDOLOGY] A book to learn Greek. In-Reply-To: <1570891594.S.71151.autosave.drafts.1570892841.32257@webmail.rediffmail.com> Message-ID: Dear Alakendu, If you are mostly interested in the relationship between Sanskrit and Greek, then may I also recommend an introduction to Indo-European philology? James Clackson's 'Indo-European Linguistics' is excellent and very readable; Ben Fortson's 'Indo-European Language and Culture', as the title suggests, also covers some of the cultural aspects you mention being interested in. Personally, when it comes to understanding language relationships, I also rather like Anthony Fox' 'Linguistic Reconstruction'. These are just a few of the books available on these subjects. Given you say you may go back 'beginning with as early as Sir William Jones', just a brief note: William Jones, although a very famous participant in this debate, was far from the earliest. The first European missionaries who came to India and were able to learn Sanskrit realised right away that it must be related to Latin and Greek (many sources make that clear, the earliest western grammar of Sanskrit by Father Heinrich Roth SJ from the 1660s among them). William Jones was, however, the first to suggest (at least in writing) that the common source of those languages 'perhaps no longer exists' (his words in 1786); in other words, he suggested that, against earlier beliefs, the relationship between these languages was not that the western languages derive from Sanskrit, but that they all came from a common source and are thus sisters or cousins. That of course is the view that has been confirmed by philologists/linguists since then. I hope the above is relevant to what you are looking into! All the very best, Antonia On Sat, 12 Oct 2019 at 16:07, alakendu das wrote: > Dr.Ruppel, > Thank you very much for elaborating on the matter.I am keen to get access > to a Beginner's book on Greek to get an insight of a belief among scholars, > beginning with as early as Sir William Jones,namely an identity between > Sanskrit and Greek . Though,I am not a student of Linguistics, but of > Indology and Vedanta Philosophy,.... still i intend to understand > Indo-European culture ,to a certain degree deeper, may be as an extension > of my Indological roots.( Language , being a component of culture) > I shall certainly look for the books you referred.Hope,they are available > through Amazon. > Alakendu Das. > > > Sent from RediffmailNG on Android > > > > > From: Antonia Ruppel > Sent: Sat, 12 Oct 2019 20:04:39 GMT+0530 > To: alakendu das > Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] A book to learn Greek. > > Dear Alakendu, > > My classroom favourites for teaching Greek have long been Athenaze (Oxford > UP) and Learn to Read Greek (Yale UP). They both come in several volumes > and thus are not the cheapest; but their length is due to the number of > resources they make available. (Plenty of good, author-written readings in > Athenaze, large amounts of annotated original Greek readings in LTRG. > > However, if you want to use the book just for yourself (rather than to > teach a group of students with varying strengths and interests), the > one-volume Introduction to Attic Greek by Mastronarde may be the way to go, > especially for someone who already knows Sanskrit and thus is already > familiar with most of the grammatical categories and concepts we find in > Greek. It also comes with its own supplementary website: > http://atticgreek.org . > > There are various others - if none of the above sound good, let me know > what you are looking for and I'll be happy to talk more about what else is > out there. > > All the best, > Antonia > > > > On Sat, 12 Oct 2019 at 14:43, alakendu das via INDOLOGY < > indology at list.indology.info> wrote: > > Respected scholars, > Can anyone suggest a beginner's book on Greek language. > Alakendu Das. > > > > Sent from RediffmailNG on Android > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing > committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or > unsubscribe) > > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mailmealakendudas at rediffmail.com Sat Oct 12 16:16:44 2019 From: mailmealakendudas at rediffmail.com (alakendu das) Date: Sat, 12 Oct 19 16:16:44 +0000 Subject: [INDOLOGY] A book to learn Greek. Message-ID: <1570896925.S.21893.autosave.drafts.1570897004.15390@webmail.rediffmail.com> Dr Ruppel,Thank you , once again, for your clarificationsAlakendu Das. Sent from RediffmailNG on Android From: Antonia Ruppel <rhododaktylos at gmail.com> Sent: Sat, 12 Oct 2019 21:02:40 GMT+0530 To: alakendu das <mailmealakendudas at rediffmail.com> Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] A book to learn Greek. Dear Alakendu, If you are mostly interested in the relationship between Sanskrit and Greek, then may I also recommend an introduction to Indo-European philology? James Clackson's 'Indo-European Linguistics' is excellent and very readable; Ben Fortson's 'Indo-European Language and Culture', as the title suggests, also covers some of the cultural aspects you mention being interested in. Personally, when it comes to understanding language relationships, I also rather like Anthony Fox' 'Linguistic Reconstruction'. These are just a few of the books available on these subjects. Given you say you may go back 'beginning with as early as Sir William Jones', just a brief note: William Jones, although a very famous participant in this debate, was far from the earliest. The first European missionaries who came to India and were able to learn Sanskrit realised right away that it must be related to Latin and Greek (many sources make that clear, the earliest western grammar of Sanskrit by Father Heinrich Roth SJ from the 1660s among them). William Jones was, however, the first to suggest (at least in writing) that the common source of those languages 'perhaps no longer exists' (his words in 1786); in other words, he suggested that, against earlier beliefs, the relationship between these languages was not that the western languages derive from Sanskrit, but that they all came from a common source and are thus sisters or cousins. That of course is the view that has been confirmed by philologists/linguists since then. I hope the above is relevant to what you are looking into! All the very best,      Antonia On Sat, 12 Oct 2019 at 16:07, alakendu das <mailmealakendudas at rediffmail.com> wrote: Dr.Ruppel, Thank you very much for elaborating on the matter.I am keen to get access to a Beginner's book on Greek to get an insight of a belief among scholars, beginning with as early as Sir William Jones,namely an identity between Sanskrit and Greek . Though,I am not a student of Linguistics, but of Indology and Vedanta Philosophy,.... still i intend to understand Indo-European culture ,to a certain degree deeper, may be as an extension of my Indological roots.( Language , being a component of culture)I shall certainly look for the books you referred.Hope,they are  available through Amazon.Alakendu Das. Sent from RediffmailNG on Android From: Antonia Ruppel <rhododaktylos at gmail.com> Sent: Sat, 12 Oct 2019 20:04:39 GMT+0530 To: alakendu das <mailmealakendudas at rediffmail.com> Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] A book to learn Greek. Dear Alakendu, My classroom favourites for teaching Greek have long been Athenaze (Oxford UP) and Learn to Read Greek (Yale UP). They both come in several volumes and thus are not the cheapest; but their length is due to the number of resources they make available. (Plenty of good, author-written readings in Athenaze, large amounts of annotated original Greek readings in LTRG.  However, if you want to use the book just for yourself (rather than to teach a group of students with varying strengths and interests), the one-volume Introduction to Attic Greek by Mastronarde may be the way to go, especially for someone who already knows Sanskrit and thus is already familiar with most of the grammatical categories and concepts we find in Greek. It also comes with its own supplementary website: http://atticgreek.org. There are various others - if none of the above sound good, let me know what you are looking for and I'll be happy to talk more about what else is out there. All the best,    Antonia On Sat, 12 Oct 2019 at 14:43, alakendu das via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info> wrote: Respected scholars,Can anyone suggest a beginner's book  on Greek language.Alakendu Das. Sent from RediffmailNG on Android _______________________________________________ INDOLOGY mailing list INDOLOGY at list.indology.info indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From glhart at berkeley.edu Sat Oct 12 21:16:57 2019 From: glhart at berkeley.edu (George Hart) Date: Sat, 12 Oct 19 17:16:57 -0400 Subject: [INDOLOGY] URL for transliterating roman to devanagari Message-ID: <1CB423ED-46F2-4DCD-8404-2989BCDA2F19@berkeley.edu> In case any on the Indology list don?t know of this, here is a website that does an excellent job of translating Sanskrit in roman to devanagari. It?s very useful because typing in devanagari is extremely difficult ? for me, at least. https://www.ashtangayoga.info/philosophy/sanskrit-and-devanagari/transliteration-tool/#iso_iast_kolkata/devanagari/xn--%0A- George -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From krishnaprasadah.g at gmail.com Sun Oct 13 02:41:52 2019 From: krishnaprasadah.g at gmail.com (Krishnaprasad G) Date: Sun, 13 Oct 19 08:11:52 +0530 Subject: [INDOLOGY] URL for transliterating roman to devanagari In-Reply-To: <1CB423ED-46F2-4DCD-8404-2989BCDA2F19@berkeley.edu> Message-ID: For both mobile phone and desktop https://aksharamukha.appspot.com/converter On Sun, Oct 13, 2019, 2:47 AM George Hart via INDOLOGY < indology at list.indology.info> wrote: > In case any on the Indology list don?t know of this, here is a website > that does an excellent job of translating Sanskrit in roman to devanagari. > It?s very useful because typing in devanagari is extremely difficult ? for > me, at least. > > > https://www.ashtangayoga.info/philosophy/sanskrit-and-devanagari/transliteration-tool/#iso_iast_kolkata/devanagari/xn--%0A- > > > George > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing > committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or > unsubscribe) > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From drdhaval2785 at gmail.com Sun Oct 13 03:27:22 2019 From: drdhaval2785 at gmail.com (Dhaval Patel) Date: Sun, 13 Oct 19 08:57:22 +0530 Subject: [INDOLOGY] URL for transliterating roman to devanagari In-Reply-To: <1CB423ED-46F2-4DCD-8404-2989BCDA2F19@berkeley.edu> Message-ID: http://www.learnsanskrit.org/tools/sanscript is also very friendly tool for transcription. On Sun, 13 Oct 2019, 02:47 George Hart via INDOLOGY, < indology at list.indology.info> wrote: > In case any on the Indology list don?t know of this, here is a website > that does an excellent job of translating Sanskrit in roman to devanagari. > It?s very useful because typing in devanagari is extremely difficult ? for > me, at least. > > > https://www.ashtangayoga.info/philosophy/sanskrit-and-devanagari/transliteration-tool/#iso_iast_kolkata/devanagari/xn--%0A- > > > George > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing > committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or > unsubscribe) > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From corinnawessels at yahoo.de Sun Oct 13 14:02:06 2019 From: corinnawessels at yahoo.de (Corinna Wessels-Mevissen) Date: Sun, 13 Oct 19 14:02:06 +0000 Subject: [INDOLOGY] New publication: Festschrift for Prof. Doris M. Srinivasan In-Reply-To: <83172761.1109405.1570911817489@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <627470587.1352750.1570975326718@mail.yahoo.com> Dear Colleagues, (With apologies for cross-posting:) You might be interested to know that we have prepared a felicitation volume for Prof. Doris Meth Srinivasan, Mattoo Center for India Studies at Stony Brook University, NY, with the valued assistance of our Indian colleagues Arundhati Banerji and Vinay Kumar Gupta. The contributors are: Michael W. Meister, M.A. Dhaky, Asko Parpola, Devangana Desai,?Shoshin Kuwayama, Alf Hiltebeitel,?Robert L. Brown, Peter Skilling (Bhadra Rujirathat),?Adam Hardy,John Guy, Pia Brancaccio, David W. Mac Dowall,?Chandra L. Reedy,Vishwa Adluri,?Monika Zin, Kirit L. Mankodi, Ellen M. Raven,?Shailendra Bhandare,Anna Filigenzi, Fabrizio Sinisi, Arundhati Banerji, Vinay Kumar Gupta, Gerd J.R. Mevissen, Corinna Wessels-Mevissen. The forewords are by Lokesh Chandra and G?rard Fussman. More details, including the ToC, are available under the following url (homepage of Aryan Books International, New Delhi): https://www.aryanbooks.com/details.php?prod_id=398&title=. Regards, Dr. Corinna Wessels-Mevissen & Gerd J.R. MevissenAffiliated Researchers Asian Art Museum, Berlin Takustr. 40 14195 Berlin / Germany -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From andra.kleb at gmail.com Sun Oct 13 15:23:26 2019 From: andra.kleb at gmail.com (andra.kleb at gmail.com) Date: Mon, 14 Oct 19 00:23:26 +0900 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Date of Candranandana In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <8748245b-cfec-4443-a4a7-ef04f05f7be9@Spark> Dear all, I was looking at the Tibetan translation of Candranandana?s introductory verses: > pra?amya devadeve?a? hari? v??nidhim ak?aram/ > pad?rthacandrik?? ??k?? ?ubhr?? sarvahit?vah?m//1// 'phrog byed mi zad tshig gi gter // lha yi lha dba? rab btud de ?// rgyas bshad tshig don zla ba'i zer // kun la phan gsal bdag gis ni // > ?r?macchakunadevena prerito h?daye sphu?am/ > buddhy? kari?y?mi guro? sa?sm?tya cara??mbujam//2// dpal ldan sgrib med (D1b4) lha yis ni // s?i? ni rnam par dra?s pas na // bla ma'i lu? ni ya? dag ?id // gsal bar rtogs nas brtsam par bya // As you can see, instead of expected *Tha ga na (or, at least, smth. connected to ?akuna), we find Sgrib med (*Nir?vara?a ?!). I am really puzzled by this find and would be very grateful if anyone could suggest what I could do in order to try understanding this oddity (I am not a Tibetologist, so apologies for this, perhaps, very basic question). Are there any Tibetan lists of Indian rulers or personal names in general? Could one think of any plausible explanation for this translation given that the original could have read smth. like ?Thakkana/ ?akuna?? Thanks very much in advance! best, Andrey On Oct 9, 2019 02:41 +0900, Matthew Kapstein , wrote: > As I see it, it is crucial that also Kalha?a mentions a ruler named > Thakkana (RT 6.230, 231, 236) as an adversary of Abhimanyu (ruled > 958-972). > > That is certainly correct, Roland - he must be the Tha ga na of the concluding verse. > > Matthew > > Matthew Kapstein > Directeur d'?tudes, > Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes > > Numata Visiting Professor of Buddhist Studies, > The University of Chicago > From: Roland Steiner > Sent: Tuesday, October 8, 2019 12:31 PM > To: Matthew Kapstein > Cc: andra.kleb at gmail.com ; indology at list.indology.info ; Madhu K Parameshwaran > Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] Date of Candranandana > > Dear Mathew, > > I am sure you are right, but it may be worthwhile to look at some of > the many references he has given. > > As I see it, it is crucial that also Kalha?a mentions a ruler named > Thakkana (RT 6.230, 231, 236) as an adversary of Abhimanyu (ruled > 958-972). > > Best, > Roland > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mkapstei at uchicago.edu Sun Oct 13 16:54:56 2019 From: mkapstei at uchicago.edu (Matthew Kapstein) Date: Sun, 13 Oct 19 16:54:56 +0000 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Date of Candranandana In-Reply-To: <8748245b-cfec-4443-a4a7-ef04f05f7be9@Spark> Message-ID: Dear Andrey, It is very puzzling. I can attempt a partial explanation, but something still eludes me. First, I suspect that the Skt. should be emended to ?r?matthakkanadevena although that may introduce a metrical problem, and I don't much like editing against the text if that can be avoided. Next step, in the spirit of the "etymological" games that we sometimes find in Tibetan translations, I would read thakka-na taking 'na' as a negation - 'not thakka.' Then, of the several MIA meanings of thakka, I'd suggest 'fatigued,' as we find in several NIA languages (Hindi, Nepali, etc.): thAk- And if all of that is not fanciful enough, we must then assume the Tibetan translator rendered thakka, 'fatigued,' in paraphrase as sgrib, "in the shadows, obscured," or as we sometimes say when speaking of the mind, "clouded." In that case we would have sgrib med "unobscured" as a rough way of saying "unfatigued." I'm not quite happy with it, but nothing better comes to mind so far. Perhaps it's a start. best, Matthew Matthew Kapstein Directeur d'?tudes, Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes Numata Visiting Professor of Buddhist Studies, The University of Chicago ________________________________ From: andra.kleb at gmail.com Sent: Sunday, October 13, 2019 10:23 AM To: indology at list.indology.info ; steiner at staff.uni-marburg.de ; Matthew Kapstein Cc: Madhu K Parameshwaran Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] Date of Candranandana Dear all, I was looking at the Tibetan translation of Candranandana?s introductory verses: pra?amya devadeve?a? hari? v??nidhim ak?aram/ pad?rthacandrik?? ??k?? ?ubhr?? sarvahit?vah?m//1// 'phrog byed mi zad tshig gi gter // lha yi lha dba? rab btud de // rgyas bshad tshig don zla ba'i zer // kun la phan gsal bdag gis ni // ?r?macchakunadevena prerito h?daye sphu?am/ buddhy? kari?y?mi guro? sa?sm?tya cara??mbujam//2// dpal ldan sgrib med (D1b4) lha yis ni // s?i? ni rnam par dra?s pas na // bla ma'i lu? ni ya? dag ?id // gsal bar rtogs nas brtsam par bya // As you can see, instead of expected *Tha ga na (or, at least, smth. connected to ?akuna), we find Sgrib med (*Nir?vara?a ?!). I am really puzzled by this find and would be very grateful if anyone could suggest what I could do in order to try understanding this oddity (I am not a Tibetologist, so apologies for this, perhaps, very basic question). Are there any Tibetan lists of Indian rulers or personal names in general? Could one think of any plausible explanation for this translation given that the original could have read smth. like ?Thakkana/ ?akuna?? Thanks very much in advance! best, Andrey On Oct 9, 2019 02:41 +0900, Matthew Kapstein , wrote: As I see it, it is crucial that also Kalha?a mentions a ruler named Thakkana (RT 6.230, 231, 236) as an adversary of Abhimanyu (ruled 958-972). That is certainly correct, Roland - he must be the Tha ga na of the concluding verse. Matthew Matthew Kapstein Directeur d'?tudes, Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes Numata Visiting Professor of Buddhist Studies, The University of Chicago ________________________________ From: Roland Steiner Sent: Tuesday, October 8, 2019 12:31 PM To: Matthew Kapstein Cc: andra.kleb at gmail.com ; indology at list.indology.info ; Madhu K Parameshwaran Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] Date of Candranandana Dear Mathew, I am sure you are right, but it may be worthwhile to look at some of the many references he has given. As I see it, it is crucial that also Kalha?a mentions a ruler named Thakkana (RT 6.230, 231, 236) as an adversary of Abhimanyu (ruled 958-972). Best, Roland -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From steiner at staff.uni-marburg.de Sun Oct 13 17:01:50 2019 From: steiner at staff.uni-marburg.de (Roland Steiner) Date: Sun, 13 Oct 19 19:01:50 +0200 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Date of Candranandana In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20191013190150.Horde.hA3eYfgnSEplG1rU3Cjj2kr@home.staff.uni-marburg.de> Dear Mathew, That is what I wrote Andrey privately a few minutes ago: I cannot think of anything obvious. sgrib med (if original and not corrupt) should be an etymological translation of the Sanskrit name of the king. Now thakkana/thagana is not a Sanskrit word, but could possibly be "Sanskritized" to sthagana. The root sthag means "to cover, conceal, hide" which semantically reminds one of Tib. sgrib pa "to obscure, to cover". Then what do we do with the negation (Tib. med)? I now had a bizarre idea. Could it be a desperate attempt to translate Skt. na (sthaga-na in the sense of a-sthaga or na-sthaga)? - Most likely too hypothetical and too far-fetched. Best, Roland From steiner at staff.uni-marburg.de Sun Oct 13 17:09:56 2019 From: steiner at staff.uni-marburg.de (Roland Steiner) Date: Sun, 13 Oct 19 19:09:56 +0200 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Date of Candranandana In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20191013190956.Horde.rvPAzrzOV_UJAAeNn3zzFRL@home.staff.uni-marburg.de> > First, I suspect that the Skt. should be emended to > ?r?matthakkanadevena although that may introduce a metrical > problem That would be metrically fine. Since the second syllable is long, the third syllable can be short or long (in a Pathy? line like this). Best, Roland From szantopeterdaniel at gmail.com Sun Oct 13 17:11:45 2019 From: szantopeterdaniel at gmail.com (=?utf-8?B?UMOpdGVyLUTDoW5pZWwgU3rDoW50w7M=?=) Date: Sun, 13 Oct 19 19:11:45 +0200 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Date of Candranandana In-Reply-To: <8748245b-cfec-4443-a4a7-ef04f05f7be9@Spark> Message-ID: Dear friends, Since sthagana means concealment/cover, that part corresponds to sgrib, so I suspect that originally the Tibetan had sgrib byed, not sgrib med. Best, Peter On Sun, Oct 13, 2019 at 5:24 PM Andrey Klebanov via INDOLOGY < indology at list.indology.info> wrote: > Dear all, > > I was looking at the Tibetan translation of Candranandana?s introductory > verses: > > pra?amya devadeve?a? hari? v??nidhim ak?aram/ > pad?rthacandrik?? ??k?? ?ubhr?? sarvahit?vah?m//1// > > 'phrog byed mi zad tshig gi gter // lha yi lha dba? rab btud de // > rgyas bshad tshig don zla ba'i zer // kun la phan gsal bdag gis ni // > > *?r?macchakunadevena* prerito h?daye sphu?am/ > > buddhy? kari?y?mi guro? sa?sm?tya cara??mbujam//2// > > *dpal ldan sgrib med* (D1b4) *lha* yis ni // s?i? ni rnam par dra?s pas > na // > bla ma'i lu? ni ya? dag ?id // gsal bar rtogs nas brtsam par bya // > > As you can see, instead of expected *Tha ga na (or, at least, smth. > connected to ?akuna), we find Sgrib med (*Nir?vara?a ?!). > > I am really puzzled by this find and would be very grateful if anyone > could suggest what I could do in order to try understanding this oddity (I > am not a Tibetologist, so apologies for this, perhaps, very basic > question). Are there any Tibetan lists of Indian rulers or personal names > in general? Could one think of any plausible explanation for this > translation given that the original could have read smth. like ?Thakkana/ > ?akuna?? > > Thanks very much in advance! > > best, > Andrey > On Oct 9, 2019 02:41 +0900, Matthew Kapstein , > wrote: > > As I see it, it is crucial that also Kalha?a mentions a ruler named > Thakkana (RT 6.230, 231, 236) as an adversary of Abhimanyu (ruled > 958-972). > > That is certainly correct, Roland - he must be the Tha ga na of the > concluding verse. > > Matthew > > Matthew Kapstein > Directeur d'?tudes, > Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes > > Numata Visiting Professor of Buddhist Studies, > The University of Chicago > ------------------------------ > *From:* Roland Steiner > *Sent:* Tuesday, October 8, 2019 12:31 PM > *To:* Matthew Kapstein > *Cc:* andra.kleb at gmail.com ; > indology at list.indology.info ; Madhu K > Parameshwaran > *Subject:* Re: [INDOLOGY] Date of Candranandana > > Dear Mathew, > > I am sure you are right, but it may be worthwhile to look at some of > the many references he has given. > > As I see it, it is crucial that also Kalha?a mentions a ruler named > Thakkana (RT 6.230, 231, 236) as an adversary of Abhimanyu (ruled > 958-972). > > Best, > Roland > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing > committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or > unsubscribe) > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ph2046 at columbia.edu Sun Oct 13 19:06:39 2019 From: ph2046 at columbia.edu (Paul Hackett) Date: Sun, 13 Oct 19 15:06:39 -0400 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Date of Candranandana In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <357967BC-622F-41BA-88C1-25780DE92367@columbia.edu> Dear all, If you check the reading found in the Snar-thang recension of the text, it confirms Peter's speculation; it does, in fact, read: dpal ldan sgrib byed lha yis ni / ... In general, Snar-thang presents far more accurate readings (assessed in terms of agreement with extant Sanskrit text) than the Sde-dge recension (whose "revised" readings are often corrupt). Regards, Paul Hackett > On Oct 13, 2019, at 1:11 PM, P?ter-D?niel Sz?nt? via INDOLOGY wrote: > > Dear friends, > > Since sthagana means concealment/cover, that part corresponds to sgrib, so I suspect that originally the Tibetan had sgrib byed, not sgrib med. > > Best, > Peter > > > On Sun, Oct 13, 2019 at 5:24 PM Andrey Klebanov via INDOLOGY > wrote: > Dear all, > > I was looking at the Tibetan translation of Candranandana?s introductory verses: > pra?amya devadeve?a? hari? v??nidhim ak?aram/ > pad?rthacandrik?? ??k?? ?ubhr?? sarvahit?vah?m//1// > 'phrog byed mi zad tshig gi gter // lha yi lha dba? rab btud de // > rgyas bshad tshig don zla ba'i zer // kun la phan gsal bdag gis ni // > > ?r?macchakunadevena prerito h?daye sphu?am/ > buddhy? kari?y?mi guro? sa?sm?tya cara??mbujam//2// > dpal ldan sgrib med (D1b4) lha yis ni // s?i? ni rnam par dra?s pas na // > bla ma'i lu? ni ya? dag ?id // gsal bar rtogs nas brtsam par bya // > > As you can see, instead of expected *Tha ga na (or, at least, smth. connected to ?akuna), we find Sgrib med (*Nir?vara?a ?!). > > I am really puzzled by this find and would be very grateful if anyone could suggest what I could do in order to try understanding this oddity (I am not a Tibetologist, so apologies for this, perhaps, very basic question). Are there any Tibetan lists of Indian rulers or personal names in general? Could one think of any plausible explanation for this translation given that the original could have read smth. like ?Thakkana/ ?akuna?? > > Thanks very much in advance! > > best, > Andrey > On Oct 9, 2019 02:41 +0900, Matthew Kapstein >, wrote: >> As I see it, it is crucial that also Kalha?a mentions a ruler named >> Thakkana (RT 6.230, 231, 236) as an adversary of Abhimanyu (ruled >> 958-972). >> >> That is certainly correct, Roland - he must be the Tha ga na of the concluding verse. >> >> Matthew >> >> Matthew Kapstein >> Directeur d'?tudes, >> Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes >> >> Numata Visiting Professor of Buddhist Studies, >> The University of Chicago >> From: Roland Steiner > >> Sent: Tuesday, October 8, 2019 12:31 PM >> To: Matthew Kapstein > >> Cc: andra.kleb at gmail.com >; indology at list.indology.info >; Madhu K Parameshwaran > >> Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] Date of Candranandana >> >> Dear Mathew, >> >> I am sure you are right, but it may be worthwhile to look at some of >> the many references he has given. >> >> As I see it, it is crucial that also Kalha?a mentions a ruler named >> Thakkana (RT 6.230, 231, 236) as an adversary of Abhimanyu (ruled >> 958-972). >> >> Best, >> Roland >> > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From eastwestcultural at yahoo.com Mon Oct 14 04:12:20 2019 From: eastwestcultural at yahoo.com (Dean Michael Anderson) Date: Mon, 14 Oct 19 04:12:20 +0000 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Motilal Banarsidass Q. In-Reply-To: <985325505.3908480.1570650588522@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <566133.712453.1571026340174@mail.yahoo.com> I spoke to RP Jain yesterday. He said now that their father has passed, the four remaining brothers have separated the company into four but they still remain close emotionally and physically -- their houses are next to one another. This is a recent development so they're not sure how it will evolve in the future. For now, they all still plan on dealing with Indology while branching out into other areas. RP said that the mldb.com site has been closed but he has opened mldb.in. He is open to talking to any scholars interested in publications through them. I've worked with RP for several decades on Indological issues and always had good experiences. I don't know the younger brothers so well. I knew the father and elder brother but they have both passed away. The email for RP is mldb at mldb.in Best, Dean On Thursday, October 10, 2019, 1:13:22 AM GMT+5:30, Andrew Nicholson via INDOLOGY wrote: Dear Friends, A colleague has asked me a question about Motilal Banarsidass. Has there been a schism that has led to two the existence of two different businesses, one called Motilal Banarsidass Publishers in Jawahar Nagar and the other called Motilal Banarsidass Publications in Daryaganj? If so, what is the exact relationship between these two businesses? It also appears that the old website (www.mlbd.com) is no longer functioning. Any light that might be shed on this confusing matter would be very welcome. Feel free to contact me off list if you prefer. With best wishes,Andrew Andrew J. Nicholson, Ph.D. Associate Professor Asian & Asian American Studies Stony Brook University Stony Brook, NY 11794-5343? USA (631) 632-4030http://philosophicalrasika.com/ _______________________________________________ INDOLOGY mailing list INDOLOGY at list.indology.info indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From andra.kleb at gmail.com Mon Oct 14 09:13:27 2019 From: andra.kleb at gmail.com (andra.kleb at gmail.com) Date: Mon, 14 Oct 19 18:13:27 +0900 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Date of Candranandana In-Reply-To: <357967BC-622F-41BA-88C1-25780DE92367@columbia.edu> Message-ID: <0177a8d2-56c7-4d8c-b09c-1a700dfd8c8f@Spark> Dear all, thanks so much for this collective effort! Twiddling with Tibetan translations seems like a lot of fun that I?ve been missing out on so far! Summarizing your suggestions, it appears the easiest, perhaps, to go with Snar-Thang?s (and Peking?s) ?sgrib byed??(thanks Peter and Paul!),?and to think of it as a translation of non-Sanskrit Thakkana (thanks Roland and Matthew!) Given that, for example,?sgrib cing is an attested rendering of Skt sthagita- (p. 724 in Lokesh Chandra?s Skt-Tib Dictionary), Roland?s suggestion to connect ?sgrib?with ?sthag?and to assume an intermediate step ? that is, Sthagana, a?Sanskritized form of Thakkana ? appears very likely. In any case, the reading seems to strengthen our initial hypothesis (also pointed out by Matthew) that ?r?macchakuna- is indeed a corruption of??r?matthakkana-. I think *?r?matthakkana- is more likely than *?r?matsthagana-, because in ??rad? (and in many other scripts) kka->ku is easier than ga-> ku, and because a corruption of a ?meaningless? non-Sanskrit form is much easier to explain than a corruption of a ?meaningless? Sanskrit one. Anyway, I hope that we will be able to consult Sanskrit MSS soon. best, Andrey On Oct 14, 2019 04:07 +0900, Paul Hackett via INDOLOGY , wrote: > Dear all, > > ? If you check the reading found in the Snar-thang recension of the text, it confirms Peter's speculation; it does, in fact, read: > > dpal ldan sgrib byed?lha?yis ni / ... > > In general, Snar-thang presents far more accurate readings (assessed in terms of agreement with extant Sanskrit text) than the Sde-dge recension (whose "revised" readings are often corrupt). > > Regards, > > Paul Hackett > > > > On Oct 13, 2019, at 1:11 PM, P?ter-D?niel Sz?nt? via INDOLOGY wrote: > > > > Dear friends, > > > > Since sthagana means concealment/cover, that part corresponds to sgrib, so I suspect that originally the Tibetan had sgrib byed, not sgrib med. > > > > Best, > > Peter > > > > > > > On Sun, Oct 13, 2019 at 5:24 PM Andrey Klebanov via INDOLOGY wrote: > > > > Dear all, > > > > > > > > I was looking at the Tibetan translation of Candranandana?s introductory verses: > > > > > pra?amya devadeve?a? hari? v??nidhim ak?aram/ > > > > > pad?rthacandrik?? ??k?? ?ubhr?? sarvahit?vah?m//1// > > > > 'phrog byed mi zad tshig gi gter // lha yi lha dba? rab btud de ?// > > > > rgyas bshad tshig don zla ba'i zer // kun la phan gsal bdag gis ni // > > > > > > > > > ?r?macchakunadevena prerito h?daye sphu?am/ > > > > > buddhy? kari?y?mi guro? sa?sm?tya cara??mbujam//2// > > > > dpal ldan sgrib med (D1b4) lha yis ni // s?i? ni rnam par dra?s pas na // > > > > bla ma'i lu? ni ya? dag ?id // gsal bar rtogs nas brtsam par bya // > > > > > > > > As you can see, instead of expected *Tha ga na (or, at least, smth. connected to ?akuna), we find Sgrib med (*Nir?vara?a ?!). > > > > > > > > I am really puzzled by this find and would be very grateful if anyone could suggest what I could do in order to try understanding this oddity (I am not a Tibetologist, so apologies for this, perhaps, very basic question). Are there any Tibetan lists of Indian rulers or personal names in general? Could one think of any plausible explanation for this translation given that the original could have read smth. like ?Thakkana/ ?akuna?? > > > > > > > > Thanks very much in advance! > > > > > > > > best, > > > > Andrey > > > > On Oct 9, 2019 02:41 +0900, Matthew Kapstein , wrote: > > > > > As I see it, it is crucial that also Kalha?a mentions a ruler named > > > > > Thakkana (RT 6.230, 231, 236) as an adversary of Abhimanyu (ruled > > > > > 958-972). > > > > > > > > > > That is certainly correct, Roland - he must be the Tha ga na of the concluding verse. > > > > > > > > > > Matthew > > > > > > > > > > Matthew Kapstein > > > > > Directeur d'?tudes, > > > > > Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes > > > > > > > > > > Numata Visiting Professor of Buddhist Studies, > > > > > The University of Chicago > > > > > From: Roland Steiner > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, October 8, 2019 12:31 PM > > > > > To: Matthew Kapstein > > > > > Cc: andra.kleb at gmail.com ; indology at list.indology.info ; Madhu K Parameshwaran > > > > > Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] Date of Candranandana > > > > > > > > > > Dear Mathew, > > > > > > > > > > I am sure you are right, but it may be worthwhile to look at some of > > > > > the many references he has given. > > > > > > > > > > As I see it, it is crucial that also Kalha?a mentions a ruler named > > > > > Thakkana (RT 6.230, 231, 236) as an adversary of Abhimanyu (ruled > > > > > 958-972). > > > > > > > > > > Best, > > > > > Roland > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > INDOLOGY mailing list > > > > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > > > > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) > > > > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) > > _______________________________________________ > > INDOLOGY mailing list > > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) > > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mkapstei at uchicago.edu Mon Oct 14 09:19:15 2019 From: mkapstei at uchicago.edu (Matthew Kapstein) Date: Mon, 14 Oct 19 09:19:15 +0000 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Date of Candranandana In-Reply-To: <0177a8d2-56c7-4d8c-b09c-1a700dfd8c8f@Spark> Message-ID: Your summary covers all the main points. Just note that, at the beginning of this thread, I had pointed out that the final verses in Tib. indeed give the name, in transcription not translation, as Thagana, which may now be taken as a confirmation. Thanks to all for a bit of good collaborative fun. Matthew Matthew Kapstein Directeur d'?tudes, Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes Numata Visiting Professor of Buddhist Studies, The University of Chicago ________________________________ From: INDOLOGY on behalf of Andrey Klebanov via INDOLOGY Sent: Monday, October 14, 2019 4:13 AM To: Indology Cc: Madhu K Parameshwaran Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] Date of Candranandana Dear all, thanks so much for this collective effort! Twiddling with Tibetan translations seems like a lot of fun that I?ve been missing out on so far! Summarizing your suggestions, it appears the easiest, perhaps, to go with Snar-Thang?s (and Peking?s) ?sgrib byed? (thanks Peter and Paul!), and to think of it as a translation of non-Sanskrit Thakkana (thanks Roland and Matthew!) Given that, for example, sgrib cing is an attested rendering of Skt sthagita- (p. 724 in Lokesh Chandra?s Skt-Tib Dictionary), Roland?s suggestion to connect ?sgrib with ?sthag and to assume an intermediate step ? that is, Sthagana, a Sanskritized form of Thakkana ? appears very likely. In any case, the reading seems to strengthen our initial hypothesis (also pointed out by Matthew) that ?r?macchakuna- is indeed a corruption of ?r?matthakkana-. I think *?r?matthakkana- is more likely than *?r?matsthagana-, because in ??rad? (and in many other scripts) kka->ku is easier than ga-> ku, and because a corruption of a ?meaningless? non-Sanskrit form is much easier to explain than a corruption of a ?meaningless? Sanskrit one. Anyway, I hope that we will be able to consult Sanskrit MSS soon. best, Andrey On Oct 14, 2019 04:07 +0900, Paul Hackett via INDOLOGY , wrote: Dear all, If you check the reading found in the Snar-thang recension of the text, it confirms Peter's speculation; it does, in fact, read: dpal ldan sgrib byed lha yis ni / ... In general, Snar-thang presents far more accurate readings (assessed in terms of agreement with extant Sanskrit text) than the Sde-dge recension (whose "revised" readings are often corrupt). Regards, Paul Hackett On Oct 13, 2019, at 1:11 PM, P?ter-D?niel Sz?nt? via INDOLOGY > wrote: Dear friends, Since sthagana means concealment/cover, that part corresponds to sgrib, so I suspect that originally the Tibetan had sgrib byed, not sgrib med. Best, Peter On Sun, Oct 13, 2019 at 5:24 PM Andrey Klebanov via INDOLOGY > wrote: Dear all, I was looking at the Tibetan translation of Candranandana?s introductory verses: pra?amya devadeve?a? hari? v??nidhim ak?aram/ pad?rthacandrik?? ??k?? ?ubhr?? sarvahit?vah?m//1// 'phrog byed mi zad tshig gi gter // lha yi lha dba? rab btud de // rgyas bshad tshig don zla ba'i zer // kun la phan gsal bdag gis ni // ?r?macchakunadevena prerito h?daye sphu?am/ buddhy? kari?y?mi guro? sa?sm?tya cara??mbujam//2// dpal ldan sgrib med (D1b4) lha yis ni // s?i? ni rnam par dra?s pas na // bla ma'i lu? ni ya? dag ?id // gsal bar rtogs nas brtsam par bya // As you can see, instead of expected *Tha ga na (or, at least, smth. connected to ?akuna), we find Sgrib med (*Nir?vara?a ?!). I am really puzzled by this find and would be very grateful if anyone could suggest what I could do in order to try understanding this oddity (I am not a Tibetologist, so apologies for this, perhaps, very basic question). Are there any Tibetan lists of Indian rulers or personal names in general? Could one think of any plausible explanation for this translation given that the original could have read smth. like ?Thakkana/ ?akuna?? Thanks very much in advance! best, Andrey On Oct 9, 2019 02:41 +0900, Matthew Kapstein >, wrote: As I see it, it is crucial that also Kalha?a mentions a ruler named Thakkana (RT 6.230, 231, 236) as an adversary of Abhimanyu (ruled 958-972). That is certainly correct, Roland - he must be the Tha ga na of the concluding verse. Matthew Matthew Kapstein Directeur d'?tudes, Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes Numata Visiting Professor of Buddhist Studies, The University of Chicago ________________________________ From: Roland Steiner > Sent: Tuesday, October 8, 2019 12:31 PM To: Matthew Kapstein > Cc: andra.kleb at gmail.com >; indology at list.indology.info >; Madhu K Parameshwaran > Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] Date of Candranandana Dear Mathew, I am sure you are right, but it may be worthwhile to look at some of the many references he has given. As I see it, it is crucial that also Kalha?a mentions a ruler named Thakkana (RT 6.230, 231, 236) as an adversary of Abhimanyu (ruled 958-972). Best, Roland _______________________________________________ INDOLOGY mailing list INDOLOGY at list.indology.info indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) _______________________________________________ INDOLOGY mailing list INDOLOGY at list.indology.info indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) _______________________________________________ INDOLOGY mailing list INDOLOGY at list.indology.info indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From andra.kleb at gmail.com Mon Oct 14 09:29:21 2019 From: andra.kleb at gmail.com (andra.kleb at gmail.com) Date: Mon, 14 Oct 19 18:29:21 +0900 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Date of Candranandana In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <9e8c2b73-bcf1-475e-94b0-8ae28feb52f0@Spark> > I had pointed out that the final verses in Tib. indeed give the name, in transcription not translation, as Thagana, which may now be taken as a confirmation. yes, I do remember this very well (this is, indeed, how Noudou?s note about Thakkana in the R?jatara?gi?? connects to the available textual data concerning Candranandana). Well? I guess *sthagana- still remains a possibility. best, Andrey On Oct 14, 2019 18:19 +0900, Matthew Kapstein , wrote: > > Your summary covers all the main points. Just note that, at the beginning of this thread, I had pointed out that the final verses in Tib. indeed give the name, in transcription not translation, as Thagana, which may now be taken as a confirmation. > > Thanks to all for a bit of good collaborative fun. > > Matthew > > Matthew Kapstein > Directeur d'?tudes, > Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes > > Numata Visiting Professor of Buddhist Studies, > The University of Chicago > From: INDOLOGY on behalf of Andrey Klebanov via INDOLOGY > Sent: Monday, October 14, 2019 4:13 AM > To: Indology > Cc: Madhu K Parameshwaran > Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] Date of Candranandana > > Dear all, > > thanks so much for this collective effort! Twiddling with Tibetan translations seems like a lot of fun that I?ve been missing out on so far! > > Summarizing your suggestions, it appears the easiest, perhaps, to go with Snar-Thang?s (and Peking?s) ?sgrib byed??(thanks Peter and Paul!),?and to think of it as a translation of non-Sanskrit Thakkana (thanks Roland and Matthew!) Given that, for example,?sgrib cing is an attested rendering of Skt sthagita- (p. 724 in Lokesh Chandra?s Skt-Tib Dictionary), Roland?s suggestion to connect ?sgrib?with ?sthag?and to assume an intermediate step ? that is, Sthagana, a?Sanskritized form of Thakkana ? appears very likely. > > In any case, the reading seems to strengthen our initial hypothesis (also pointed out by Matthew) that ?r?macchakuna- is indeed a corruption of??r?matthakkana-. > I think *?r?matthakkana- is more likely than *?r?matsthagana-, because in ??rad? (and in many other scripts) kka->ku is easier than ga-> ku, and because a corruption of a ?meaningless? non-Sanskrit form is much easier to explain than a corruption of a ?meaningless? Sanskrit one. Anyway, I hope that we will be able to consult Sanskrit MSS soon. > > best, > Andrey > On Oct 14, 2019 04:07 +0900, Paul Hackett via INDOLOGY , wrote: > > Dear all, > > > > ? If you check the reading found in the Snar-thang recension of the text, it confirms Peter's speculation; it does, in fact, read: > > > > dpal ldan sgrib byed?lha?yis ni / ... > > > > In general, Snar-thang presents far more accurate readings (assessed in terms of agreement with extant Sanskrit text) than the Sde-dge recension (whose "revised" readings are often corrupt). > > > > Regards, > > > > Paul Hackett > > > > > > > On Oct 13, 2019, at 1:11 PM, P?ter-D?niel Sz?nt? via INDOLOGY wrote: > > > > > > Dear friends, > > > > > > Since sthagana means concealment/cover, that part corresponds to sgrib, so I suspect that originally the Tibetan had sgrib byed, not sgrib med. > > > > > > Best, > > > Peter > > > > > > > > > On Sun, Oct 13, 2019 at 5:24 PM Andrey Klebanov via INDOLOGY wrote: > > > > Dear all, > > > > > > > > I was looking at the Tibetan translation of Candranandana?s introductory verses: > > > > > pra?amya devadeve?a? hari? v??nidhim ak?aram/ > > > > > pad?rthacandrik?? ??k?? ?ubhr?? sarvahit?vah?m//1// > > > > 'phrog byed mi zad tshig gi gter // lha yi lha dba? rab btud de ?// > > > > rgyas bshad tshig don zla ba'i zer // kun la phan gsal bdag gis ni // > > > > > > > > > ?r?macchakunadevena prerito h?daye sphu?am/ > > > > > buddhy? kari?y?mi guro? sa?sm?tya cara??mbujam//2// > > > > dpal ldan sgrib med (D1b4) lha yis ni // s?i? ni rnam par dra?s pas na // > > > > bla ma'i lu? ni ya? dag ?id // gsal bar rtogs nas brtsam par bya // > > > > > > > > As you can see, instead of expected *Tha ga na (or, at least, smth. connected to ?akuna), we find Sgrib med (*Nir?vara?a ?!). > > > > > > > > I am really puzzled by this find and would be very grateful if anyone could suggest what I could do in order to try understanding this oddity (I am not a Tibetologist, so apologies for this, perhaps, very basic question). Are there any Tibetan lists of Indian rulers or personal names in general? Could one think of any plausible explanation for this translation given that the original could have read smth. like ?Thakkana/ ?akuna?? > > > > > > > > Thanks very much in advance! > > > > > > > > best, > > > > Andrey > > > > On Oct 9, 2019 02:41 +0900, Matthew Kapstein , wrote: > > > > > As I see it, it is crucial that also Kalha?a mentions a ruler named > > > > > Thakkana (RT 6.230, 231, 236) as an adversary of Abhimanyu (ruled > > > > > 958-972). > > > > > > > > > > That is certainly correct, Roland - he must be the Tha ga na of the concluding verse. > > > > > > > > > > Matthew > > > > > > > > > > Matthew Kapstein > > > > > Directeur d'?tudes, > > > > > Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes > > > > > > > > > > Numata Visiting Professor of Buddhist Studies, > > > > > The University of Chicago > > > > > From: Roland Steiner > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, October 8, 2019 12:31 PM > > > > > To: Matthew Kapstein > > > > > Cc: andra.kleb at gmail.com ; indology at list.indology.info ; Madhu K Parameshwaran > > > > > Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] Date of Candranandana > > > > > > > > > > Dear Mathew, > > > > > > > > > > I am sure you are right, but it may be worthwhile to look at some of > > > > > the many references he has given. > > > > > > > > > > As I see it, it is crucial that also Kalha?a mentions a ruler named > > > > > Thakkana (RT 6.230, 231, 236) as an adversary of Abhimanyu (ruled > > > > > 958-972). > > > > > > > > > > Best, > > > > > Roland > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > INDOLOGY mailing list > > > > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > > > > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) > > > > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) > > > _______________________________________________ > > > INDOLOGY mailing list > > > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > > > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) > > > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) > > > > _______________________________________________ > > INDOLOGY mailing list > > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) > > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mkapstei at uchicago.edu Mon Oct 14 09:30:37 2019 From: mkapstei at uchicago.edu (Matthew Kapstein) Date: Mon, 14 Oct 19 09:30:37 +0000 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Date of Candranandana In-Reply-To: <9e8c2b73-bcf1-475e-94b0-8ae28feb52f0@Spark> Message-ID: yes, Thagana is taken to be MIA for Skt. sthagana.... Matthew Kapstein Directeur d'?tudes, Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes Numata Visiting Professor of Buddhist Studies, The University of Chicago ________________________________ From: andra.kleb at gmail.com Sent: Monday, October 14, 2019 4:29 AM To: Indology ; Matthew Kapstein Cc: madhusukrutham at gmail.com Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] Date of Candranandana I had pointed out that the final verses in Tib. indeed give the name, in transcription not translation, as Thagana, which may now be taken as a confirmation. yes, I do remember this very well (this is, indeed, how Noudou?s note about Thakkana in the R?jatara?gi?? connects to the available textual data concerning Candranandana). Well? I guess *sthagana- still remains a possibility. best, Andrey On Oct 14, 2019 18:19 +0900, Matthew Kapstein , wrote: Your summary covers all the main points. Just note that, at the beginning of this thread, I had pointed out that the final verses in Tib. indeed give the name, in transcription not translation, as Thagana, which may now be taken as a confirmation. Thanks to all for a bit of good collaborative fun. Matthew Matthew Kapstein Directeur d'?tudes, Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes Numata Visiting Professor of Buddhist Studies, The University of Chicago ________________________________ From: INDOLOGY on behalf of Andrey Klebanov via INDOLOGY Sent: Monday, October 14, 2019 4:13 AM To: Indology Cc: Madhu K Parameshwaran Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] Date of Candranandana Dear all, thanks so much for this collective effort! Twiddling with Tibetan translations seems like a lot of fun that I?ve been missing out on so far! Summarizing your suggestions, it appears the easiest, perhaps, to go with Snar-Thang?s (and Peking?s) ?sgrib byed? (thanks Peter and Paul!), and to think of it as a translation of non-Sanskrit Thakkana (thanks Roland and Matthew!) Given that, for example, sgrib cing is an attested rendering of Skt sthagita- (p. 724 in Lokesh Chandra?s Skt-Tib Dictionary), Roland?s suggestion to connect ?sgrib with ?sthag and to assume an intermediate step ? that is, Sthagana, a Sanskritized form of Thakkana ? appears very likely. In any case, the reading seems to strengthen our initial hypothesis (also pointed out by Matthew) that ?r?macchakuna- is indeed a corruption of ?r?matthakkana-. I think *?r?matthakkana- is more likely than *?r?matsthagana-, because in ??rad? (and in many other scripts) kka->ku is easier than ga-> ku, and because a corruption of a ?meaningless? non-Sanskrit form is much easier to explain than a corruption of a ?meaningless? Sanskrit one. Anyway, I hope that we will be able to consult Sanskrit MSS soon. best, Andrey On Oct 14, 2019 04:07 +0900, Paul Hackett via INDOLOGY , wrote: Dear all, If you check the reading found in the Snar-thang recension of the text, it confirms Peter's speculation; it does, in fact, read: dpal ldan sgrib byed lha yis ni / ... In general, Snar-thang presents far more accurate readings (assessed in terms of agreement with extant Sanskrit text) than the Sde-dge recension (whose "revised" readings are often corrupt). Regards, Paul Hackett On Oct 13, 2019, at 1:11 PM, P?ter-D?niel Sz?nt? via INDOLOGY > wrote: Dear friends, Since sthagana means concealment/cover, that part corresponds to sgrib, so I suspect that originally the Tibetan had sgrib byed, not sgrib med. Best, Peter On Sun, Oct 13, 2019 at 5:24 PM Andrey Klebanov via INDOLOGY > wrote: Dear all, I was looking at the Tibetan translation of Candranandana?s introductory verses: pra?amya devadeve?a? hari? v??nidhim ak?aram/ pad?rthacandrik?? ??k?? ?ubhr?? sarvahit?vah?m//1// 'phrog byed mi zad tshig gi gter // lha yi lha dba? rab btud de // rgyas bshad tshig don zla ba'i zer // kun la phan gsal bdag gis ni // ?r?macchakunadevena prerito h?daye sphu?am/ buddhy? kari?y?mi guro? sa?sm?tya cara??mbujam//2// dpal ldan sgrib med (D1b4) lha yis ni // s?i? ni rnam par dra?s pas na // bla ma'i lu? ni ya? dag ?id // gsal bar rtogs nas brtsam par bya // As you can see, instead of expected *Tha ga na (or, at least, smth. connected to ?akuna), we find Sgrib med (*Nir?vara?a ?!). I am really puzzled by this find and would be very grateful if anyone could suggest what I could do in order to try understanding this oddity (I am not a Tibetologist, so apologies for this, perhaps, very basic question). Are there any Tibetan lists of Indian rulers or personal names in general? Could one think of any plausible explanation for this translation given that the original could have read smth. like ?Thakkana/ ?akuna?? Thanks very much in advance! best, Andrey On Oct 9, 2019 02:41 +0900, Matthew Kapstein >, wrote: As I see it, it is crucial that also Kalha?a mentions a ruler named Thakkana (RT 6.230, 231, 236) as an adversary of Abhimanyu (ruled 958-972). That is certainly correct, Roland - he must be the Tha ga na of the concluding verse. Matthew Matthew Kapstein Directeur d'?tudes, Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes Numata Visiting Professor of Buddhist Studies, The University of Chicago ________________________________ From: Roland Steiner > Sent: Tuesday, October 8, 2019 12:31 PM To: Matthew Kapstein > Cc: andra.kleb at gmail.com >; indology at list.indology.info >; Madhu K Parameshwaran > Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] Date of Candranandana Dear Mathew, I am sure you are right, but it may be worthwhile to look at some of the many references he has given. As I see it, it is crucial that also Kalha?a mentions a ruler named Thakkana (RT 6.230, 231, 236) as an adversary of Abhimanyu (ruled 958-972). Best, Roland _______________________________________________ INDOLOGY mailing list INDOLOGY at list.indology.info indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) _______________________________________________ INDOLOGY mailing list INDOLOGY at list.indology.info indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) _______________________________________________ INDOLOGY mailing list INDOLOGY at list.indology.info indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From steiner at staff.uni-marburg.de Mon Oct 14 09:31:11 2019 From: steiner at staff.uni-marburg.de (Roland Steiner) Date: Mon, 14 Oct 19 11:31:11 +0200 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Date of Candranandana In-Reply-To: <0177a8d2-56c7-4d8c-b09c-1a700dfd8c8f@Spark> Message-ID: <20191014113111.Horde.2G1vXmVOy_l4x49_gZ332kr@home.staff.uni-marburg.de> Dear Andrey, > it appears the easiest, perhaps, to go with Snar-Thang?s (and > Peking?s) ?sgrib byed? Certainly the solution. > to assume an intermediate step ? that is, Sthagana, [...] I think > *?r?matthakkana- is more likely than *?r?matsthagana- In my view, it is not necessary to assume that sthagana was actually in a manuscript (if that is your assumption). It is sufficient that thakkana was traced back etymologically to Sanskrit sthagana. Best, Roland From steiner at staff.uni-marburg.de Tue Oct 15 09:38:19 2019 From: steiner at staff.uni-marburg.de (Roland Steiner) Date: Tue, 15 Oct 19 11:38:19 +0200 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Thakkana again Message-ID: <20191015113819.Horde.u_t948mcAiPgmQooMgVG8L3@home.staff.uni-marburg.de> Walter Slaje has asked me to forward the following message to the list: * * * Allow me to prolong the fun with a final remark on the relationship between the names Thakkana and ?akuna, if they are supposed to denote the same person, the ??hi king of that name, which seems likely. ? For little is in favour of the assumption that /?r?macchakuna/- could be a corruption of?/?r?matthakkana/-, and indeed, this is almost impossible. ? What Roland Steiner had earlier written is basically correct, but it is only half the truth: ?In ??rad?, the two ak?aras tha and ?a are?semi-homograph. One could, therefore, speculate whether Thakkana was?first misread to Sakkana/?akuna and then improved to ?akuna.? ? The problematic point here is that the assumed misinterpretation by a scribe could hardly have been caused by mistaking an initial consonant /THA/ for /?A/. Given the exact wording of the beginning of the line ?/?r?maCCHAkunadevena/? it actually would presuppose a confusion of the conjunct characters -TTHA- (of an assumed */?r?maTTHAkkana-/) and -/CCH/- (of /?r?maCCHAkuna-/ as handed down), to begin with. The sandhi with its effects on the written characters does not seem to have been considered. I cannot see how these conjunct /ak?ara/s could be confused in the ??rad? script in any way. The same applies to the possibility of confusion between /ka/ (/kka/) and /ku/, unless we imply a deliberate ?improvement?. Here, at the latest, intention would come into play. Moreover, Roland?s final caution seems to have fallen a little behind: ?But it?s?just speculation, not more.? It is. ? Consider the introductory sentence and the polite way ?akunadeva is referred to as commissioning authority: /?R?MACCHAKUNADEVENA/ /PRERITO h?daye sphu?am |/ /buddhy? kari?y?mi guro? sa?sm?tya cara??mbujam/ || 2 || ? Now Thakkana (*/sthagana/) clearly belongs to the category of ignominious names, and one may speculate who gave him, or what caused this name. It could be a nickname referring to unflattering personal characteristics, or a given name. Would an author refer to his ruler, who commissioned his work, by a mocking name? I doubt it. If, on the other hand, it was a given name, which is by far more likely, then we have to take the following background seriously into consideration: The kind of names we are concerned with here were not very rare, if one thinks of only ?omba and Bhik??cara among Kashmiri kings. Kalha?a refers to the latter name expressly as /abhavya/ (?ignominious?) [RT 8.17cd]. Moreover, our Thakkana is not the only bearer of that name. Kalha?a records even a courtesan namesake (tellingly called Thakkan? [RT 7.1252]). Stein explains this name-giving practice on the basis of ?superstitious reasons [?]. Such names are still common throughout the whole of India, and are usually given to children born after the death of their elder predecessors.? (Stein, note on RT 7.1065). ? Cp. also Stein?s translation of (and notes on) RT 8.16?18: ?/Bhoja, Har?a/?s son, had [?] a male child. As he was born after two or three other sons had died [in childhood], the Gurus, anxious [to assure him] a long life, had given him the ignominious name of /Bhik??cara/ (?beggar?).? ? Note on 8.16-18: ?The custom of giving opprobrious names to children born after the death of their elder predecessors, is widely spread throughout India. It takes its origin from the superstition that a disgusting name will save the child from evil influences which otherwise seem to threaten it. [?]?. ? Thakkana, too, belongs to this category of inauspicious or disgusting names. ? If an author starts his work with a ma?gala ?loka (1) and with an homage to his king (2), is it really reasonable to assume he would have used an inauspicious name where auspiciousness and nothing but auspiciousness is called for? Alternatively, should we not rather assume an elegant twist, by which the author makes use of a partial semantic congruency in the lexical field of ?concealment?, by replacing the negatively connoted /sthagana/ with a positively connoted /?akuna/? Note that /?akuna/ in general denotes a good omen, which perfectly fits a ma?galaic purpose. ? In my opinion, the assumption that /?akuna/ could owe its existence to scribal corruptions and ?betterments? starting from /thakkana/ has become baseless in light of the conjunct consonants -/tth/- and -/cch/-. ? By contrast, a deliberate change from /thakkana/ to /?akuna/ by the author of this verse of homage, who composed a work his ruler bearing an inauspicious name had personally commissioned (/prerita?/) (with the consequence that some remuneration could be expected), is an alternative interpretation I am inclined to follow. ? Best regards, WS * * * -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From steiner at staff.uni-marburg.de Tue Oct 15 10:08:43 2019 From: steiner at staff.uni-marburg.de (Roland Steiner) Date: Tue, 15 Oct 19 12:08:43 +0200 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Thakkana again In-Reply-To: <20191015113819.Horde.u_t948mcAiPgmQooMgVG8L3@home.staff.uni-marburg.de> Message-ID: <20191015120843.Horde.h2DDpOOdq_IHeRF-Q3bdMPI@home.staff.uni-marburg.de> Let me add a comment right now. That ?r?macchakuna? cannot be corrupted from ?r?matthakkana? is of course completely correct. My original consideration was that ?akuna could have been a reading in a direct or indirect source of the verse (which is not to be emended text-critically then), but I had lost the focus on this in the further discussion. Walter's idea that the author could have replaced the negatively connoted sthagana with a positively connoted ?akuna, is very worth considering. Something similar could have happened in the course of the transmission of the Tibetan translation. It is conceivable that sgrib byed was held to be inappropriate for a name (and therefore to be a potential textual corruption) and was replaced by sgrib med (perhaps in the sense of an?vara?a "free from destruction", or similar). Best, Roland From wujastyk at gmail.com Tue Oct 15 23:34:24 2019 From: wujastyk at gmail.com (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Tue, 15 Oct 19 17:34:24 -0600 Subject: [INDOLOGY] how many words? Message-ID: How many words are there in Sanskrit? How many vocabulary items does a student need to memorize in order to cope reasonably with, say, epic Sanskrit? Best, Dominik -- Professor Dominik Wujastyk , Singhmar Chair in Classical Indian Society and Polity , Department of History and Classics , University of Alberta, Canada . South Asia at the U of A: sas.ualberta.ca -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From hellwig7 at gmx.de Wed Oct 16 06:19:45 2019 From: hellwig7 at gmx.de (Oliver Hellwig) Date: Wed, 16 Oct 19 08:19:45 +0200 Subject: [INDOLOGY] HiranyakesiGS Message-ID: <4320f43a-23ea-9e30-56bd-8f9315033a00@gmx.de> Dear all, does anybody know where I can get a pdf of Kirste's edition of the Hiranyakeshi-Grhyasutras? Or have one and would share it? Thanks, Oliver --- Oliver Hellwig, IVS Z?rich From szantopeterdaniel at gmail.com Wed Oct 16 06:30:46 2019 From: szantopeterdaniel at gmail.com (=?utf-8?B?UMOpdGVyLUTDoW5pZWwgU3rDoW50w7M=?=) Date: Wed, 16 Oct 19 08:30:46 +0200 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Thakkana again In-Reply-To: <20191015120843.Horde.h2DDpOOdq_IHeRF-Q3bdMPI@home.staff.uni-marburg.de> Message-ID: Dear friends, Perhaps I'm missing something, but prof. Slaje's argument would work only with the assumption that the verse/text was mediated through ??rad? only and no other script until the printed form. I am completely unfamiliar with the manuscript history of this text. Moreover, I am looking at an 11th c. ??rad? ms. right now (do we have anything slightly earlier?): while ccha and stha are clearly different, they are not _that_ different and I can see how in a hurried hand they could've been confused. As for sgrib byed/med, a Tibetan could have thought that such an inauspicious word is not apposite for a ma?gala/pratij?? verse, but perhaps it is nothing more than a psychological slip: while sgrib byed and sgrib med occur more or less at the same rate (quick grep through the Bstan 'gyur yields 68 vs 67), a search for sgrib pa med pa vs sgrib pa byed pa yields 919 to 1. Best wishes, Peter On Tue, Oct 15, 2019 at 12:09 PM Roland Steiner via INDOLOGY < indology at list.indology.info> wrote: > Let me add a comment right now. > > That ?r?macchakuna? cannot be corrupted from ?r?matthakkana? is of > course completely correct. My original consideration was that ?akuna > could have been a reading in a direct or indirect source of the verse > (which is not to be emended text-critically then), but I had lost the > focus on this in the further discussion. > > Walter's idea that the author could have replaced the negatively > connoted sthagana with a positively connoted ?akuna, is very worth > considering. Something similar could have happened in the course of > the transmission of the Tibetan translation. It is conceivable that > sgrib byed was held to be inappropriate for a name (and therefore to > be a potential textual corruption) and was replaced by sgrib med > (perhaps in the sense of an?vara?a "free from destruction", or similar). > > Best, > Roland > > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing > committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or > unsubscribe) > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From hellwig7 at gmx.de Wed Oct 16 06:36:28 2019 From: hellwig7 at gmx.de (Oliver Hellwig) Date: Wed, 16 Oct 19 08:36:28 +0200 Subject: [INDOLOGY] HiranyakesiGS In-Reply-To: <4320f43a-23ea-9e30-56bd-8f9315033a00@gmx.de> Message-ID: <121c5162-b702-311d-c010-a0e674425acf@gmx.de> Thanks to Rafa? K?eczek who directed me to this site: https://archive.org/details/in.ernet.dli.2015.272076/page/n1 Best, Oliver On 16/10/2019 08:19, Oliver Hellwig wrote: > Dear all, > > does anybody know where I can get a pdf of Kirste's edition of the > Hiranyakeshi-Grhyasutras? Or have one and would share it? > > Thanks, Oliver > > --- > Oliver Hellwig, IVS Z?rich From christophe.vielle at uclouvain.be Wed Oct 16 06:44:32 2019 From: christophe.vielle at uclouvain.be (Christophe Vielle) Date: Wed, 16 Oct 19 06:44:32 +0000 Subject: [INDOLOGY] HiranyakesiGS In-Reply-To: <121c5162-b702-311d-c010-a0e674425acf@gmx.de> Message-ID: <2F3917A8-BE71-4532-9B65-D5DFCC76AE87@uclouvain.be> Also https://archive.org/details/in.ernet.dli.2015.405587 https://archive.org/details/in.ernet.dli.2015.312003 in addition to https://archive.org/details/in.ernet.dli.2015.272076 '"by Monsieur Jourdan" (publisher: "La Langue Chiapaneque Lucien Adam"!) and the same via Sanskrit Dictionary website: https://dli.sanskritdictionary.com/bookpage.php?Id=0B7JhzNLs-FQEaG80N1NpZlgtSGs https://dli.sanskritdictionary.com/bookpage.php?Id=0B7JhzNLs-FQEY3J1NmNqQko1dkU https://dli.sanskritdictionary.com/bookpage.php?Id=0B7JhzNLs-FQEdFR4VVlKU0lBOEU Le 16 oct. 2019 ? 08:36, Oliver Hellwig via INDOLOGY > a ?crit : Thanks to Rafa? K?eczek who directed me to this site: https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Farchive.org%2Fdetails%2Fin.ernet.dli.2015.272076%2Fpage%2Fn1&data=02%7C01%7C%7Cada76eab91fb43277af708d752034819%7C7ab090d4fa2e4ecfbc7c4127b4d582ec%7C0%7C0%7C637068046368178814&sdata=J1PvDwwNnhaYDFtPuwK0XUpUrh0YqzF12Aps1kidMG8%3D&reserved=0 Best, Oliver On 16/10/2019 08:19, Oliver Hellwig wrote: Dear all, does anybody know where I can get a pdf of Kirste's edition of the Hiranyakeshi-Grhyasutras? Or have one and would share it? Thanks, Oliver --- Oliver Hellwig, IVS Z?rich _______________________________________________ INDOLOGY mailing list INDOLOGY at list.indology.info indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Flistinfo.indology.info&data=02%7C01%7C%7Cada76eab91fb43277af708d752034819%7C7ab090d4fa2e4ecfbc7c4127b4d582ec%7C0%7C0%7C637068046368183817&sdata=vSYk2iVEfEzlme6p%2F8A6GImo0cVMlO0XXJdM9x5UvUw%3D&reserved=0 (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) ??????????????????? Christophe Vielle Louvain-la-Neuve -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From gaiapintucci at gmail.com Wed Oct 16 07:31:58 2019 From: gaiapintucci at gmail.com (Gaia Pintucci) Date: Wed, 16 Oct 19 16:31:58 +0900 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Hobson Jobson Dictionary Message-ID: Dear list members, Is there an edition/reprint of the Hobson Jobson dictionary you would recommend above all others? I am interested in acquiring a hard copy of it. I see that in 2013 a *selected edition* appeared, edited by Kate Teltscher, but I would like to get hold of an *unabridged* one. NB: I am aware of the online resource that is hosted on the website of the University of Chicago as well as of the existence of a freely available pdf, but I am actually in search of an old-style book. I shall be grateful for any tips. With best wishes, Gaia Pintucci -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mkapstei at uchicago.edu Wed Oct 16 08:09:10 2019 From: mkapstei at uchicago.edu (Matthew Kapstein) Date: Wed, 16 Oct 19 08:09:10 +0000 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Thakkana again In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Dear all, It is not plausible that the Tibetan translator arbitrarily contradicted the reading zakuna, if that was indeed the reading of the text that was used, UNLESS it was well know to have been, or at minimum the pandit with whom he was working explained this to have been, an epithet of Thakkana - in that case, it would have been considered a legitimate substitution. Once again, we know that the Tibetan translator was familiar with Thagana as a possibility, because he uses this in the final verses. I was, like some of you, surprised to see a humilific name for a king, for which reason I leaned toward the Thakka-na/sgrib med explanation, but I do think now that sgrib byed is preferable. (By the way, Peter, this would transpose to sgrib par byed pa, not sgrib pa byed pa, which may change the 900-to-1 calculation.) In the case of the mahAsiddha Thagana, as in many mahAsiddha names, the humilific is of course what is to be expected - and indeed his hagiography seeks to explain it. (Because he was a compulsive liar, he finally attained liberation by realizing the falseness of appearances - I will abstain here from commenting on current politics with this in mind....) In any case, the siddha Thagana is said to have been a low-caste Bengali. Probably I will have nothing more to add to this thread, but maybe I'm lying.... Matthew Matthew Kapstein Directeur d'?tudes, Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes Numata Visiting Professor of Buddhist Studies, The University of Chicago ________________________________ From: INDOLOGY on behalf of P?ter-D?niel Sz?nt? via INDOLOGY Sent: Wednesday, October 16, 2019 1:30 AM To: indology at list.indology.info Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] Thakkana again Dear friends, Perhaps I'm missing something, but prof. Slaje's argument would work only with the assumption that the verse/text was mediated through ??rad? only and no other script until the printed form. I am completely unfamiliar with the manuscript history of this text. Moreover, I am looking at an 11th c. ??rad? ms. right now (do we have anything slightly earlier?): while ccha and stha are clearly different, they are not _that_ different and I can see how in a hurried hand they could've been confused. As for sgrib byed/med, a Tibetan could have thought that such an inauspicious word is not apposite for a ma?gala/pratij?? verse, but perhaps it is nothing more than a psychological slip: while sgrib byed and sgrib med occur more or less at the same rate (quick grep through the Bstan 'gyur yields 68 vs 67), a search for sgrib pa med pa vs sgrib pa byed pa yields 919 to 1. Best wishes, Peter On Tue, Oct 15, 2019 at 12:09 PM Roland Steiner via INDOLOGY > wrote: Let me add a comment right now. That ?r?macchakuna? cannot be corrupted from ?r?matthakkana? is of course completely correct. My original consideration was that ?akuna could have been a reading in a direct or indirect source of the verse (which is not to be emended text-critically then), but I had lost the focus on this in the further discussion. Walter's idea that the author could have replaced the negatively connoted sthagana with a positively connoted ?akuna, is very worth considering. Something similar could have happened in the course of the transmission of the Tibetan translation. It is conceivable that sgrib byed was held to be inappropriate for a name (and therefore to be a potential textual corruption) and was replaced by sgrib med (perhaps in the sense of an?vara?a "free from destruction", or similar). Best, Roland _______________________________________________ INDOLOGY mailing list INDOLOGY at list.indology.info indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From christophe.vielle at uclouvain.be Wed Oct 16 08:11:57 2019 From: christophe.vielle at uclouvain.be (Christophe Vielle) Date: Wed, 16 Oct 19 08:11:57 +0000 Subject: =?utf-8?Q?[INDOLOGY]_Fwd:_sa=C3=B1j_sajjate?= In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <6D41CFAA-F3A2-4610-BABC-765223100984@uclouvain.be> Dear list, a student of mine asks me about the form sajjate usually presented (in Western dictionaries and grammars at the least) as a passive alternative/epic form of sajyate (see infra; also, even more surprising, the form sajjati is sometimes also given as a secondary passive form). I am not a specialist of grammar, nevertheless I have a real difficulty to consider as a passive form something without an apparent -ya suffix (and without middle ending for sajjati ? note that the latter form is also proposed by Whitney G to come from a Cl. IV *sajyati or from *sasjati), and, additionally, why in this case to postulate such an assimilation jj < jy and not a more obvious or natural ?j > jj . It seems indeed to me more easy to consider sajjate (and sajjati) as alternative M (and A) form = *sa?jate (and *sa?jati, which is given by Kale G), beside more classical sajate/i. The two causative forms sa?jayati and sajjayati appears to confirm this explanation (cf. also in MW the double entry sajj = sa?j); however, the other has for it the epic abs. ?sajja (for ?sajya) given by Wackernagel (I have not Oberlies here at hand to check this reference). Thank you for your comments. Especially, I would be interested to know 1? if it happens that indigenous grammars also consider sajjate as a passive form 2? linguistic historical or comparative arguments for jj < jy rather than < ?j Best wishes, Christophe From: Edmond Differding Sent: Tuesday, October 15, 2019 18:19 To: Christophe Vielle > Subject: sa?j sajjate Voici ce que j?ai trouv? sur sajjate : Grammaire de Whitney ?746 [cid:image002.jpg at 01D583F6.821A41D0] Whitney Roots : [cid:image003.jpg at 01D583F6.821A41D0] Renou ?9 [p. 8] : "Assimilation... par pr?kritisme... sont ainsi pass?s dans la langue sajj- 46a)" [> ?46a, p. 50]: "Les rac. en -jj- donn?es gr. comme reposant sur -sj-" Renou ?71.a)1) [p. 77] : rac. sa?j ? d?pourvue de nasale au pr?sent (en ya), facultativement au causatif, et le maintient ailleurs Macdonell : 133.A.4.: mentionne juste: perd la nasale : saj-a- Huet/Heritage : sa?j var. saj v. [1] pr. (sajati) pr. r. (sajate) pft. (sasa?ja) pp. (sakta) pf. (anu, ?, ni, pra, sam) adh?rer ? ps. (sajjate) ?tre attach? ?, ?tre suspendu ? Monier Williams : [ sajj ]2 ( = ? [ sa?j ] ; cf. [ sajjaya ] ) , Caus. [ sajjayati ] , to cling , adhere , fasten or fix or attach to (loc.) Lit. Kath?s. ; to fix (the mind) upon Lit. BhP. ; to cause one's self to be embraced (by other men) Lit. Mn. viii , 362. [ sa?j ]2 Root ( or [ saj ] ) cl. [1] P. ( Lit. Dh?tup. xxiii , 18) [ s?jati ] ( rarely ?. [ ?te ] ; pf. [ sasa?ja ] Lit. Br. ( in some rare and doubtful cases in Lit. MBh. and Lit. Ragh. [ sasajja ] ) ; 3. pl. [ seju? ] Lit. ?Br. ; aor. [ as??k??t ] , [ s??k??t ] , UP. ; [ asa?ji ] Lit. Br. ; [ ?sakth?s ] , [ ?ta ] Lit. RV. Lit. Br. ; Prec. [ sajy?t ] Gr. ; fut. [ sa?kt? ] , [ sa?k?yati ] Lit. ib. ; inf. [ saktum ] Lit. MBh. ; [ sa?ktos ] Lit. Br. ; ind.p. [ -sajya ] , [ -s??gam ] Lit. ib. ) , to cling or stick or adhere to , be attached to or engaged in or occupied with (loc.) Lit. Br. Lit. Ragh. Lit. Naish. : Pass. [ sajy?te ] ( generally [ sajjate ] , ep. also [ ?ti ] ) , to be attached or fastened , adhere , cling , stick (with [ na ] , " to fly through without sticking " , as an arrow) Lit. ?Br. ; to linger , hesitate Lit. MBh. Lit. R. ; to be devoted to or intent on or occupied with (loc.) Lit. MBh. Lit. K?v. : Caus. [ sa?jayati ] (aor. [ asasa?jat ] ; for [ sajjayati ] see ? [ sajj ] ) , to cause to stick or cling to , unite or connect with (loc.) Lit. Bhag. Lit. ?a?k. : Desid. [ sisa?k?ati ] see [ ?-? sa?j ] : Intens. [ s?sajyate ] , [ s?sa?kti ] Gr. ( ( cf. accord. to some , Lat. (segnis) ; Lith. (segu4) , " I attach. " ) B?thlingk & Roth: sa?j , sajati Dh?tup. 23, 18 (sa?ge, pari?va?ge). P. 6, 4, 25. Vop. 8, 102. as??k??t (s. u. pra), sasa?ja, sasa?jatus und sasajatus Vop. asakta? sa?k?y?mi (vgl. unter ? und K?r. 2 aus Siddh. zu P. 7, 2, 10 ); partic. sakta . 1) anh?ngen, zusammenh?ngen ???kh. Br. 24, 1. yad adya dugdha? p?thiv?m asakta sich h?ngen an Tbr. 1, 4, 3, 3. ? 2) act. h?ngen bleiben, sich anheften: sasa?ju? (sasajju? ed. Calc.) ? mattebhaka?e?u phalare?ava? Ragh. 4, 47. ? 3) pass. sajyate h?ngen (intrans.) an ?at. Br. 10, 2, 6, 8. 14, 6, 9, 28. 11, 6. gew?hnlich mit Assimilation sajjate (episch auch sajjati, welches Dh?tup. 7, 22 als bes. Wurzel in der Bed. gatau angefuhrt wird; etc?? ? anu 1) act. a) beh?ngen: ?tm?na? rasena ?at. Br. 7, 3, 1, 3. ? b) hinzuf?gen P?r. G?hy. 1, 5. 8. ? 2) pass. a) ?sajyate ?) h?ngen bleiben ?, haften an (loc.): dharmap?te ca manasi nabhas?va na j?tu rajo 'nu?ajyate Da?ak. 64, 18. sich anschliessen Comm. zu Vs. Pr?t. 4, 173. ? ?) sich wieder anschliessen so v. a. aus dem Vorangehenden nachgelten, - zu erg?nzen sein: sa?nidh?n?d evety anu?ajyate Comm. zu Kap. 1, 98. S?h. D. 238, 4. ? b) ??ajjate ?) sich Jmd (acc.) anschliessen so v. a. auf dem Fusse folgen: gop?s tam anvasajjanta ?aka?ai? Bh?g. P. 10, 39, 33. 83, 34. ? ?) h?ngen an so v. a. sich hingeben, sich besch?ftigen mit, mit den Gedanken, mit dem Herzen bei Etwas (loc.) sein: indriy?rthe?u, karmasu Bhag. 6, 4. ku?ale karma?i 18, 10. k?ye Bh?g. P. 4, 20, 5. dravi?e 11, 23, 23. Puis encore dans : Wackernagel, Vol 1, p163 : jj < jy [cid:image001.png at 01D583F6.821A41D0] Kale : Higher Sanskrit Grammar App II p 138: [cid:image004.png at 01D583F7.B49C2370] Bref, je n?ai rien trouv? de r?gle solide qui explique le jj ! Renou parle de g?minations en g?n?ral, mais j?avoue ne pas avoir compris?. J?attends vos commentaires ! Bonne soir?e, Edmond ??????????????????? Christophe Vielle Louvain-la-Neuve -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image002.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 26161 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image003.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 27568 bytes Desc: not available URL: From vjroebuck at btinternet.com Wed Oct 16 08:14:06 2019 From: vjroebuck at btinternet.com (Valerie Roebuck) Date: Wed, 16 Oct 19 09:14:06 +0100 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Hobson Jobson Dictionary In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <23E75A7F-F4A9-4E61-A488-4EA9C3A0BD53@btinternet.com> Dear Gaia I have a complete paperback reprint of the 2nd edition from Wordsworth Reference books - this one, but with a different cover. https://www.amazon.co.uk/Concise-Hobson-Jobson-Anglo-Indian-Dictionary-Wordsworth/dp/185326363X If you have problems getting hold of it outside the UK, please let me know. Valerie J Roebuck Manchester, UK > On 16 Oct 2019, at 08:31, Gaia Pintucci via INDOLOGY wrote: > > Dear list members, > > Is there an edition/reprint of the Hobson Jobson dictionary you would recommend above all others? > I am interested in acquiring a hard copy of it. > > I see that in 2013 a *selected edition* appeared, edited by Kate Teltscher, but I would like to get hold of an *unabridged* one. > > NB: I am aware of the online resource that is hosted on the website of the University of Chicago as well as of the existence of a freely available pdf, but I am actually in search of an old-style book. > > I shall be grateful for any tips. > > With best wishes, > Gaia Pintucci > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From H.J.H.Tieken at hum.leidenuniv.nl Wed Oct 16 08:19:56 2019 From: H.J.H.Tieken at hum.leidenuniv.nl (Tieken, H.J.H.) Date: Wed, 16 Oct 19 08:19:56 +0000 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Hobson Jobson Dictionary In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Dear Gaia, I do not know for what purpose you need Hobson Jobson. If it is for Indian words in English, you might also have a look at G. Subba Rao, Indian Words in English. A Study of Indo-British Cultural and Linguistic Relations. Oxford 1969 (originally published 1954.) Herman Herman Tieken Stationsweg 58 2515 BP Den Haag The Netherlands 00 31 (0)70 2208127 website: hermantieken.com ________________________________ Van: INDOLOGY [indology-bounces at list.indology.info] namens Gaia Pintucci via INDOLOGY [indology at list.indology.info] Verzonden: woensdag 16 oktober 2019 9:31 Aan: Indology Onderwerp: [INDOLOGY] Hobson Jobson Dictionary Dear list members, Is there an edition/reprint of the Hobson Jobson dictionary you would recommend above all others? I am interested in acquiring a hard copy of it. I see that in 2013 a *selected edition* appeared, edited by Kate Teltscher, but I would like to get hold of an *unabridged* one. NB: I am aware of the online resource that is hosted on the website of the University of Chicago as well as of the existence of a freely available pdf, but I am actually in search of an old-style book. I shall be grateful for any tips. With best wishes, Gaia Pintucci -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From steiner at staff.uni-marburg.de Wed Oct 16 08:45:52 2019 From: steiner at staff.uni-marburg.de (Roland Steiner) Date: Wed, 16 Oct 19 10:45:52 +0200 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Thakkana again In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20191016104552.Horde.tBJkYbGPs2KEPSrc6I5s0so@home.staff.uni-marburg.de> Dear Peter, I, too, am not familiar with the manuscript history of this text. Since the author originates from Kashmir, the assumption of a ??rad? tradition seemed at least natural. > while ccha and stha are clearly different, they are not _that_ different But it's about the possible confusion of the ligatures -ttha- (of an assumed *?r?matthakkana-) and -cch- (of ?r?macchakuna), isn't it? Would you say that ttha and ccha can also be confused in your 11th c. ??rad? ms.? As fas as the Tibetan variants sgrib byed/med are concerned, I merely thought that someone might have considered sgrib byed for a "suspicious" name (= possibly corrupted in the course of the Tibetan tradition) and corrected it to sgrib med (think of the tendency of Sde-dge recension to "revise" readings). But I agree: it could also be "nothing more than a psychological slip", which amounts to the same result (the original reading would be sgrib byed). Be that as it may: sgrib byed corresponds to thakkana, whereas sgrib med corresponds neither to thakkana nor to ?akuna, which suggests that the Tibetans originally translated something like thakkana with sgrib byed. Best wishes, Roland From christophe.vielle at uclouvain.be Wed Oct 16 08:54:58 2019 From: christophe.vielle at uclouvain.be (Christophe Vielle) Date: Wed, 16 Oct 19 08:54:58 +0000 Subject: =?utf-8?Q?[INDOLOGY]_Fwd:__Fwd:_sa=C3=B1j_sajjate?= In-Reply-To: <6D41CFAA-F3A2-4610-BABC-765223100984@uclouvain.be> Message-ID: Sorry for having omitted to mention on the subject the authoritative work of Leonid Kulikov, The Vedic -ya- presents: Passives and intransivity in Old Indo-Aryan, Leiden Studies in Indo-European 19, 2012, pp. 273-275; he also explains sajja- forms (already attested in Ved. Br.) as = sajya-, but never explicitely says that sajjate is a passive form (rather a middle class present, and sajjati an active present). D?but du message r?exp?di? : De: Christophe Vielle via INDOLOGY > Objet: [INDOLOGY] Fwd: sa?j sajjate Date: 16 octobre 2019 ? 10:11:57 UTC+2 ?: Indology > R?pondre ?: Christophe Vielle > Dear list, a student of mine asks me about the form sajjate usually presented (in Western dictionaries and grammars at the least) as a passive alternative/epic form of sajyate (see infra; even more surprising, the form sajjati is sometimes also given as a secondary passive form). I am not a specialist of grammar, nevertheless I have a real difficulty to consider as a passive form something without an apparent -ya suffix (and without middle ending for sajjati ? note that the latter form is also proposed by Whitney G to come from a Cl. IV *sajyati or from *sasjati), and, additionally, why in this case to postulate such an assimilation jj < jy and not a more obvious or natural ?j > jj . It seems indeed to me more easy to consider sajjate (and sajjati) as alternative M (and A) form = *sa?jate (and *sa?jati, which is given by Kale G), beside more classical sajate/i. The two causative forms sa?jayati and sajjayati appear to confirm this explanation (cf. also in MW the double entry sajj = sa?j); however, the other has for it the epic abs. ?sajja (for ?sajya) given by Wackernagel (I have not Oberlies here at hand to check this reference). Thank you for your comments. Especially, I would be interested to know 1? if it happens that indigenous grammars also consider sajjate as a passive form 2? linguistic historical or comparative arguments for jj < jy rather than < ?j Best wishes, Christophe From: Edmond Differding Sent: Tuesday, October 15, 2019 18:19 To: Christophe Vielle > Subject: sa?j sajjate Voici ce que j?ai trouv? sur sajjate : Grammaire de Whitney ?746 [cid:image002.jpg at 01D583F6.821A41D0] Whitney Roots : [cid:image003.jpg at 01D583F6.821A41D0] Renou ?9 [p. 8] : "Assimilation... par pr?kritisme... sont ainsi pass?s dans la langue sajj- 46a)" [> ?46a, p. 50]: "Les rac. en -jj- donn?es gr. comme reposant sur -sj-" Renou ?71.a)1) [p. 77] : rac. sa?j ? d?pourvue de nasale au pr?sent (en ya), facultativement au causatif, et le maintient ailleurs Macdonell : 133.A.4.: mentionne juste: perd la nasale : saj-a- Huet/Heritage : sa?j var. saj v. [1] pr. (sajati) pr. r. (sajate) pft. (sasa?ja) pp. (sakta) pf. (anu, ?, ni, pra, sam) adh?rer ? ps. (sajjate) ?tre attach? ?, ?tre suspendu ? Monier Williams : [ sajj ]2 ( = ? [ sa?j ] ; cf. [ sajjaya ] ) , Caus. [ sajjayati ] , to cling , adhere , fasten or fix or attach to (loc.) Lit. Kath?s. ; to fix (the mind) upon Lit. BhP. ; to cause one's self to be embraced (by other men) Lit. Mn. viii , 362. [ sa?j ]2 Root ( or [ saj ] ) cl. [1] P. ( Lit. Dh?tup. xxiii , 18) [ s?jati ] ( rarely ?. [ ?te ] ; pf. [ sasa?ja ] Lit. Br. ( in some rare and doubtful cases in Lit. MBh. and Lit. Ragh. [ sasajja ] ) ; 3. pl. [ seju? ] Lit. ?Br. ; aor. [ as??k??t ] , [ s??k??t ] , UP. ; [ asa?ji ] Lit. Br. ; [ ?sakth?s ] , [ ?ta ] Lit. RV. Lit. Br. ; Prec. [ sajy?t ] Gr. ; fut. [ sa?kt? ] , [ sa?k?yati ] Lit. ib. ; inf. [ saktum ] Lit. MBh. ; [ sa?ktos ] Lit. Br. ; ind.p. [ -sajya ] , [ -s??gam ] Lit. ib. ) , to cling or stick or adhere to , be attached to or engaged in or occupied with (loc.) Lit. Br. Lit. Ragh. Lit. Naish. : Pass. [ sajy?te ] ( generally [ sajjate ] , ep. also [ ?ti ] ) , to be attached or fastened , adhere , cling , stick (with [ na ] , " to fly through without sticking " , as an arrow) Lit. ?Br. ; to linger , hesitate Lit. MBh. Lit. R. ; to be devoted to or intent on or occupied with (loc.) Lit. MBh. Lit. K?v. : Caus. [ sa?jayati ] (aor. [ asasa?jat ] ; for [ sajjayati ] see ? [ sajj ] ) , to cause to stick or cling to , unite or connect with (loc.) Lit. Bhag. Lit. ?a?k. : Desid. [ sisa?k?ati ] see [ ?-? sa?j ] : Intens. [ s?sajyate ] , [ s?sa?kti ] Gr. ( ( cf. accord. to some , Lat. (segnis) ; Lith. (segu4) , " I attach. " ) B?thlingk & Roth: sa?j , sajati Dh?tup. 23, 18 (sa?ge, pari?va?ge). P. 6, 4, 25. Vop. 8, 102. as??k??t (s. u. pra), sasa?ja, sasa?jatus und sasajatus Vop. asakta? sa?k?y?mi (vgl. unter ? und K?r. 2 aus Siddh. zu P. 7, 2, 10 ); partic. sakta . 1) anh?ngen, zusammenh?ngen ???kh. Br. 24, 1. yad adya dugdha? p?thiv?m asakta sich h?ngen an Tbr. 1, 4, 3, 3. ? 2) act. h?ngen bleiben, sich anheften: sasa?ju? (sasajju? ed. Calc.) ? mattebhaka?e?u phalare?ava? Ragh. 4, 47. ? 3) pass. sajyate h?ngen (intrans.) an ?at. Br. 10, 2, 6, 8. 14, 6, 9, 28. 11, 6. gew?hnlich mit Assimilation sajjate (episch auch sajjati, welches Dh?tup. 7, 22 als bes. Wurzel in der Bed. gatau angefuhrt wird; etc?? ? anu 1) act. a) beh?ngen: ?tm?na? rasena ?at. Br. 7, 3, 1, 3. ? b) hinzuf?gen P?r. G?hy. 1, 5. 8. ? 2) pass. a) ?sajyate ?) h?ngen bleiben ?, haften an (loc.): dharmap?te ca manasi nabhas?va na j?tu rajo 'nu?ajyate Da?ak. 64, 18. sich anschliessen Comm. zu Vs. Pr?t. 4, 173. ? ?) sich wieder anschliessen so v. a. aus dem Vorangehenden nachgelten, - zu erg?nzen sein: sa?nidh?n?d evety anu?ajyate Comm. zu Kap. 1, 98. S?h. D. 238, 4. ? b) ??ajjate ?) sich Jmd (acc.) anschliessen so v. a. auf dem Fusse folgen: gop?s tam anvasajjanta ?aka?ai? Bh?g. P. 10, 39, 33. 83, 34. ? ?) h?ngen an so v. a. sich hingeben, sich besch?ftigen mit, mit den Gedanken, mit dem Herzen bei Etwas (loc.) sein: indriy?rthe?u, karmasu Bhag. 6, 4. ku?ale karma?i 18, 10. k?ye Bh?g. P. 4, 20, 5. dravi?e 11, 23, 23. Puis encore dans : Wackernagel, Vol 1, p163 : jj < jy [cid:004EF0CD-076A-49B9-A38E-FDF977DE59F3 at lan] Kale : Higher Sanskrit Grammar App II p 138: [cid:3D6143DE-48D6-4CE6-9489-6B635115ED2E at lan] Bref, je n?ai rien trouv? de r?gle solide qui explique le jj ! Renou parle de g?minations en g?n?ral, mais j?avoue ne pas avoir compris?. J?attends vos commentaires ! Bonne soir?e, Edmond ??????????????????? Christophe Vielle Louvain-la-Neuve _______________________________________________ INDOLOGY mailing list INDOLOGY at list.indology.info indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Flistinfo.indology.info&data=02%7C01%7C%7C6f003b27a9f646e0d50808d752109f9c%7C7ab090d4fa2e4ecfbc7c4127b4d582ec%7C0%7C0%7C637068103674732467&sdata=bUNfm0tbihrG29TM92NQmJA14qfx0%2FoGCt5fE1zu0sA%3D&reserved=0 (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) ??????????????????? Christophe Vielle Louvain-la-Neuve -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image002.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 26161 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image003.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 27568 bytes Desc: not available URL: From szantopeterdaniel at gmail.com Wed Oct 16 08:59:49 2019 From: szantopeterdaniel at gmail.com (=?utf-8?B?UMOpdGVyLUTDoW5pZWwgU3rDoW50w7M=?=) Date: Wed, 16 Oct 19 10:59:49 +0200 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Thakkana again In-Reply-To: <20191016104552.Horde.tBJkYbGPs2KEPSrc6I5s0so@home.staff.uni-marburg.de> Message-ID: Apologies, I was still before my first coffee before I posted: Matthew: Indeed, sgrib par byed pa (still 272 hits). Roland: I meant to say -ttha- and -ccha-, sorry. Best, Peter On Wed, Oct 16, 2019 at 10:46 AM Roland Steiner via INDOLOGY < indology at list.indology.info> wrote: > Dear Peter, > > I, too, am not familiar with the manuscript history of this text. > Since the author originates from Kashmir, the assumption of a ??rad? > tradition seemed at least natural. > > > while ccha and stha are clearly different, they are not _that_ different > > But it's about the possible confusion of the ligatures -ttha- (of an > assumed *?r?matthakkana-) and -cch- (of ?r?macchakuna), isn't it? > Would you say that ttha and ccha can also be confused in your 11th c. > ??rad? ms.? > > As fas as the Tibetan variants sgrib byed/med are concerned, I merely > thought that someone might have considered sgrib byed for a > "suspicious" name (= possibly corrupted in the course of the Tibetan > tradition) and corrected it to sgrib med (think of the tendency of > Sde-dge recension to "revise" readings). But I agree: it could also be > "nothing more than a psychological slip", which amounts to the same > result (the original reading would be sgrib byed). > > Be that as it may: sgrib byed corresponds to thakkana, whereas sgrib > med corresponds neither to thakkana nor to ?akuna, which suggests that > the Tibetans originally translated something like thakkana with sgrib > byed. > > > Best wishes, > Roland > > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing > committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or > unsubscribe) > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From hellwig7 at gmx.de Wed Oct 16 11:00:43 2019 From: hellwig7 at gmx.de (Oliver Hellwig) Date: Wed, 16 Oct 19 13:00:43 +0200 Subject: [INDOLOGY] HiranyakesiGS In-Reply-To: <2F3917A8-BE71-4532-9B65-D5DFCC76AE87@uclouvain.be> Message-ID: <3bd8764e-2a1c-ec31-c478-bf8fe734f503@gmx.de> Thanks Christophe! More than I could ever expect to find. Best, Oliver On 16/10/2019 08:44, Christophe Vielle wrote: > Also > > https://archive.org/details/in.ernet.dli.2015.405587 > > https://archive.org/details/in.ernet.dli.2015.312003 > > in addition to https://archive.org/details/in.ernet.dli.2015.272076?'"by > Monsieur Jourdan" (publisher: "La Langue Chiapaneque Lucien Adam"!) > > and the same via Sanskrit Dictionary website: > > https://dli.sanskritdictionary.com/bookpage.php?Id=0B7JhzNLs-FQEaG80N1NpZlgtSGs > > > https://dli.sanskritdictionary.com/bookpage.php?Id=0B7JhzNLs-FQEY3J1NmNqQko1dkU > > https://dli.sanskritdictionary.com/bookpage.php?Id=0B7JhzNLs-FQEdFR4VVlKU0lBOEU > > >> Le 16 oct. 2019 ? 08:36, Oliver Hellwig via INDOLOGY >> > a >> ?crit : >> >> Thanks to Rafa? K?eczek who directed me to this site: >> >> https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Farchive.org%2Fdetails%2Fin.ernet.dli.2015.272076%2Fpage%2Fn1&data=02%7C01%7C%7Cada76eab91fb43277af708d752034819%7C7ab090d4fa2e4ecfbc7c4127b4d582ec%7C0%7C0%7C637068046368178814&sdata=J1PvDwwNnhaYDFtPuwK0XUpUrh0YqzF12Aps1kidMG8%3D&reserved=0 >> >> Best, Oliver >> >> On 16/10/2019 08:19, Oliver Hellwig wrote: >>> Dear all, >>> >>> does anybody know where I can get a pdf of Kirste's edition of the >>> Hiranyakeshi-Grhyasutras? Or have one and would share it? >>> >>> Thanks, Oliver >>> >>> --- >>> Oliver Hellwig, IVS Z?rich >> >> _______________________________________________ >> INDOLOGY mailing list >> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info >> indology-owner at list.indology.info >> (messages to the list's >> managing committee) >> https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Flistinfo.indology.info&data=02%7C01%7C%7Cada76eab91fb43277af708d752034819%7C7ab090d4fa2e4ecfbc7c4127b4d582ec%7C0%7C0%7C637068046368183817&sdata=vSYk2iVEfEzlme6p%2F8A6GImo0cVMlO0XXJdM9x5UvUw%3D&reserved=0(where >> you can change your list options or unsubscribe) > > ??????????????????? > Christophe Vielle > Louvain-la-Neuve > > > From rhododaktylos at gmail.com Wed Oct 16 13:37:16 2019 From: rhododaktylos at gmail.com (Antonia Ruppel) Date: Wed, 16 Oct 19 14:37:16 +0100 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Hobson Jobson Dictionary In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Dear Gaia, This is the edition that I have which is low in price and, as far as I can see, not abridged: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Hobson-Jobson-Definitive-Glossary-British-Classics/dp/0198718004/ref=sr_1_1?keywords=hobson+jobson&qid=1571232616&s=books&sr=1-1 I very much like it. All the best, Antonia On Wed, 16 Oct 2019 at 08:32, Gaia Pintucci via INDOLOGY < indology at list.indology.info> wrote: > Dear list members, > > Is there an edition/reprint of the Hobson Jobson dictionary you would > recommend above all others? > I am interested in acquiring a hard copy of it. > > I see that in 2013 a *selected edition* appeared, edited by Kate > Teltscher, but I would like to get hold of an *unabridged* one. > > NB: I am aware of the online resource that is hosted on the website of the > University of Chicago as well as of the existence of a freely available > pdf, but I am actually in search of an old-style book. > > I shall be grateful for any tips. > > With best wishes, > Gaia Pintucci > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing > committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or > unsubscribe) > -- Dr Antonia Ruppel cambridge-sanskrit.org allthingssanskrit.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From steiner at staff.uni-marburg.de Wed Oct 16 13:59:33 2019 From: steiner at staff.uni-marburg.de (Roland Steiner) Date: Wed, 16 Oct 19 15:59:33 +0200 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Thakkana again In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20191016155933.Horde.bHL1L8YGnMKch-ISwLir7Re@home.staff.uni-marburg.de> Walter Slaje has asked me to forward a further message to the list. * * * Having been disconnected from the list for a while, it may have escaped my notice if the reading -chakuna- has been adopted text-critically from among other variants, or if it is an only reading from a unique manuscript. That would certainly change the starting point of this discussion. ? We can of course never exclude the possibility that the syllables under consideration were physically damaged in the exemplar a scribe had had in front of him and which he supplied in his own copy with a wording (??akuna?) that seemed reasonable to him. Then however, and without further evidence, anything could be explained by wild guesses of that sort. Moreover, an unsubstantiated assumption that CCHa-KU-na was mistaken for TTHa-KKA-na is, as I should like to repeat, baseless in the ??rad? script. I am not prone to consider such an argument as valid until its likelihood has been more convincingly demonstrated. For, what other script should we suppose in use in the Greater Kashmir region in the tenth century, if not ??rad?? ? The ??hi ruler Thakkana ?may have been some small chief in a neighbouring hill region?, to quote Stein on RT 6.230. Thakkana was conquered and captured after an invasion of Kashmiri forces in his ?country, which is difficult of access on account of its streams and mountains? (Stein). The difficulty of access mentioned here points to the Dardic territories north of the Kashmir valley proper, where Hindu ??his had been ruling, too. There were indeed no safe and easy passes to cross the mountain range to the north. Hence, the Greater Kashmir region is our most likely candidate, which is the homeland of the ??rad? script. ? As to my hypothesis that /?akuna/ may have deliberately been used instead of /thakkana/ by the author himself with a view to avoiding an inauspicious name in the beginning, a beginning which is by all means supposed to be auspicious, let me add that he was writing at the court in the company of contemporaries who certainly knew him as a dependant of his patron quite well. Sure, at their time, the audience could immediately savour the applaudable elegance with which he had turned the unhappily named Thakkana into, and immortalized him as, a ?akuna king (by which he won his favour). ? If otherwise, could anyone supply evidence for a ma?gala or a dedicatory verse containing unfavourable words or ominous names? ? Until counterevidence, would someone on this list earnestly believe that a medieval Indian author might have addressed his patron as ?illustrious liar king?? ? Thank you again for your attention, WS * * * -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From andra.kleb at gmail.com Wed Oct 16 16:04:17 2019 From: andra.kleb at gmail.com (andra.kleb at gmail.com) Date: Thu, 17 Oct 19 01:04:17 +0900 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Thakkana again In-Reply-To: <20191016155933.Horde.bHL1L8YGnMKch-ISwLir7Re@home.staff.uni-marburg.de> Message-ID: Dear all, I think some explanations concerning the origin of the reading ??r?macchakuna?? are due. It is attested NOT in a ??rad? MS, but in a printed version of the text (it is the only printed ?edition? I am aware of; I have uploaded it?here). It is completely unclear, what sources the editor was actually using, because the only thing he himself said about it was this: ?asya granthasya nirm??asamaye ??k?trayam ida? ?r?ve?kate?varamudra??lay?dhipatisak???d evopalabdham ?s?d ata? punarmudra??disarv?dhik?ra? tebhya eva samarpaye iti? (p. 6). To this, his son added that these ?three old and authoritative commentaries? were obtained by ?the proprietors of Shri Venktashwar Press [?] from the well known scholar [?] Yadavji Tricumji? (pp. 3?4). So my guess is that the editor was given a Marath? transcript of some MSS and?entrusted?with the task ?to rearrange the misplaced comments, replace or explain obscure readings, and give the whole a systematic appearance? (p. 4). Whatever may be the case, according to our survey of MS-catalogues, the only ??rad? MSS of the text, which are preserved till date (in Bikaner), do not cover the concerned portion of the text. Furthermore, as I mentioned earlier, the overall quality of the printed text is rather poor. To give you but one obvious example, on p. 5 (under pa?), there are two verses quoted to explain the meaning of ?atha?. Of these, the first verse (I?m not going to discuss its reading, viz a bit odd as well) is not found in our oldest textual witness ? that is, in the Tibetan translation. And, in fact, this verse is grep-able (thanks to Dhaval Patel!!!) in Mahe?vara?s Vi?vaprak??a (an authorial ko?a- dated to the beginning of the 12th ctr.). This brings us to another important point that misreadings are not the only sources of textual corruptions. Therefore, I mentioned earlier that it seemed likely to me that ?sr?macchakuna-? could be an intentional ?improvement? of a ?non-sensical? reading ?sr?matthakkana-?. This ?improvement? could have been introduced by the editor of the above publication (in which case we are lucky, because it is still present in his sources (?)) or sometimes much earlier in the transmission of the text. On the other hand, I think that Prof. Slaje?s concerns about Candranandana's use of his patron?s opprobrious name (though, surely, a king of any rang ?would have more than just a single forename) at the very beginning of his work are to be taken very serious. I wonder in this connection if it is possible to understand ?Thakkana? as ?just a name? ? that is, not as a MIA variant of Skt ?sthagana-?, but, perhaps, as a personal name having a different origin altogether? Let me also remind you that the very identification of Candra?s patron with Thakkana is purely hypothetical (though I think that the cooccurrence of Tha ga na, sgrib byed/med and R?jatara?gin??s mention of Thakkana that also perfectly fits the proposed time of Candra is rather compelling). There are also Sanskrit MSS of the text waiting to be checked that may provide a solution (it happens so that Dr Madhu Parameshwaran from Kerala and myself are currently editing a later portion of the text, and we are certainly planing to extend our effort to the whole text in the future). On a different note. > If otherwise, could anyone supply evidence for a ma?gala or a dedicatory verse containing unfavourable words or ominous names? not an ?ominous name?, but here comes a ma?gala?loka- by someone Suvar?arekha (perhaps, a Bengali author, surely pre-Durgha?av?tti ? that is, pre 1172 CE). It?s a commentary on the Kir?t?rjun?ya and it starts right away with a ?du?-?. I must confess that I have been puzzled by this fact for quite some time now (is there something auspicious that escapes me?!). The only explanation I came up with so far is that ?durbodha-? at the beginning of the commentary needs to be connected with ?vidhu?kham? (at the end of one of the final verses of the same commentary), so that the whole text could be seen as a path leading from one to the other. Anyway, the (a)ma?gala- reads as follows: ?durbodhav?gvivara??ni kir?tak?vye n?n?rthabh??ji vidadh?ti suvar?arekha? / ?tadbh?vatattvam avagamya vimar?ayanta? santa? subh??itadhan? manas? vahantu // best, Andrey On Oct 16, 2019 23:00 +0900, Roland Steiner via INDOLOGY , wrote: > Walter Slaje has asked me to forward a further message to the list. > > > * * * > > Having been disconnected from the list for a while, it may have escaped my notice if the reading -chakuna- has been adopted text-critically from among other variants, or if it is an only reading from a unique manuscript. That would certainly change the starting point of this discussion. > > We can of course never exclude the possibility that the syllables under consideration were physically damaged in the exemplar a scribe had had in front of him and which he supplied in his own copy with a wording (??akuna?) that seemed reasonable to him. Then however, and without further evidence, anything could be explained by wild guesses of that sort. Moreover, an unsubstantiated assumption that ccha-ku-na was mistaken for ttha-kka-na is, as I should like to repeat, baseless in the ??rad? script. I am not prone to consider such an argument as valid until its likelihood has been more convincingly demonstrated. For, what other script should we suppose in use in the Greater Kashmir region in the tenth century, if not ??rad?? > > The ??hi ruler Thakkana ?may have been some small chief in a neighbouring hill region?, to quote Stein on RT 6.230. Thakkana was conquered and captured after an invasion of Kashmiri forces in his ?country, which is difficult of access on account of its streams and mountains? (Stein). The difficulty of access mentioned here points to the Dardic territories north of the Kashmir valley proper, where Hindu ??his had been ruling, too. There were indeed no safe and easy passes to cross the mountain range to the north. Hence, the Greater Kashmir region is our most likely candidate, which is the homeland of the ??rad? script. > > As to my hypothesis that ?akuna may have deliberately been used instead of thakkana by the author himself with a view to avoiding an inauspicious name in the beginning, a beginning which is by all means supposed to be auspicious, let me add that he was writing at the court in the company of contemporaries who certainly knew him as a dependant of his patron quite well. Sure, at their time, the audience could immediately savour the applaudable elegance with which he had turned the unhappily named Thakkana into, and immortalized him as, a ?akuna king (by which he won his favour). > > If otherwise, could anyone supply evidence for a ma?gala or a dedicatory verse containing unfavourable words or ominous names? > > Until counterevidence, would someone on this list earnestly believe that a medieval Indian author might have addressed his patron as ?illustrious liar king?? > > Thank you again for your attention, > WS > > * * * > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From hspier.muktabodha at gmail.com Wed Oct 16 23:49:29 2019 From: hspier.muktabodha at gmail.com (Harry Spier) Date: Wed, 16 Oct 19 19:49:29 -0400 Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_[INDOLOGY]_Fwd:_sa=C3=B1j_sajjate?= In-Reply-To: <6D41CFAA-F3A2-4610-BABC-765223100984@uclouvain.be> Message-ID: Here is Oberlies reference: saj -> sa(?)j sajj 'to stick, to be caught' (I. [cf. VIA I 210]) --- see p. 244 pr. sajjati, Mbh 1,203.15, 5,55.9 (sam+), 177.20, 13,21.10 (sa?pra+), 39.1, 499* (pra+), 132.7, sajjate, Mbh 3,2.16 ~ 240.3, 5,9.8,67.15, R 2,54.4 (sam+), 100.6, 4,28.20.25, 58.29, 5,37.35, 49, 16 pf. (sa?)sasajjatu? Mbh 6,43.69 sec. caus. sajjayate R 6, 150*.8 (pra+), 7,60.17 rem. A denominative of sajja ( wrote: > Dear list, > > a student of mine asks me about the form *sajjate* usually presented (in > Western dictionaries and grammars at the least) as a passive > alternative/epic form of *sajyate* (see infra; also, even more > surprising, the form * sajjati* is sometimes also given as a secondary > passive form). I am not a specialist of grammar, nevertheless I have a > real difficulty to consider as a passive form something without an apparent > -*ya *suffix (and without middle ending for *sajjati ? *note that the > latter form is also proposed by Whitney G to come from a Cl. IV **sajyati > *or from **sasjati*), and, additionally, why in this case to postulate > such an assimilation* jj < jy *and not a more obvious or natural* ?j > jj* > . It seems indeed to me more easy to consider *sajjate *(and *sajjati*) > as alternative M (and A) form = **sa?jate *(and **sa?jati*, which is > given by Kale G), beside more classical *sajate/i*. The two causative > forms *sa?jayati *and *sajjayati *appears to confirm this explanation > (cf. also in MW the double entry *sajj = **sa?j*); however, the other has > for it the epic abs. ?*sajja* (for ?*sajya*) given by Wackernagel (I have > not Oberlies here at hand to check this reference). > Thank you for your comments. Especially, I would be interested to know > 1? if it happens that indigenous grammars also consider *sajjate* as a > passive form > 2? linguistic historical or comparative arguments for * jj < jy *rather > than *< ?j* > > Best wishes, > Christophe > > *From:* Edmond Differding > *Sent:* Tuesday, October 15, 2019 18:19 > *To:* Christophe Vielle > *Subject:* sa?j sajjate > > Voici ce que j?ai trouv? sur sajjate : > > *Grammaire de Whitney ?746 * > > > > > *Whitney Roots :* > > > > > *Renou ?9 [p. 8] :* > > > "Assimilation... par pr?kritisme... sont ainsi pass?s dans la langue > sajj- 46a)" > > > [> ?46a, p. 50]: "Les rac. en -jj- donn?es gr. comme reposant sur -sj-" > > > *Renou ?71.a)1) [p. 77] :* > > > rac. sa?j ? d?pourvue de nasale au pr?sent (en ya), facultativement au > causatif, et le maintient ailleurs > > > *Macdonell* : > > 133.A.4.: mentionne juste: perd la nasale : saj-a- > > > *Huet/Heritage : * > > *sa?j* var. *saj* v. [1 > ] > pr. *(sajati)* pr. r. *(sajate)* pft. *(sasa?ja)* pp. *(sakta)* pf. *(* > *anu* > > , *?* > > , *ni* > > , *pra* > > , *sam* > > *)* adh?rer ? ps. *(sajjate)* ?tre attach? ?, ?tre suspendu ? > > > *Monier Williams : * > > [* sajj *]2 ( = ? [* sa?j > * ] > ; cf. [ *sajjaya > * ] > ) , Caus. [* sajjayati *] , to cling , adhere , fasten or fix or attach > to (loc.) Lit. Kath?s. ; to fix (the mind) upon Lit. BhP. ; to cause one's > self to be embraced (by other men) Lit. Mn. viii , 362. > > [ sa?j ]2 Root ( or [ saj ] ) cl. [1] P. ( Lit. Dh?tup. xxiii , 18) [ > s?jati ] ( rarely ?. [ ?te ] ; pf. [ sasa?ja ] Lit. Br. ( in some rare and > doubtful cases in Lit. MBh. and Lit. Ragh. [ sasajja ] ) ; 3. pl. [ seju? ] > Lit. ?Br. ; aor. [ as??k??t ] , [ s??k??t ] , UP. ; [ asa?ji ] Lit. Br. ; [ > ?sakth?s ] , [ ?ta ] Lit. RV. Lit. Br. ; Prec. [ sajy?t ] Gr. ; fut. [ > sa?kt? ] , [ sa?k?yati ] Lit. ib. ; inf. [ saktum ] Lit. MBh. ; [ sa?ktos ] > Lit. Br. ; ind.p. [ -sajya ] , [ -s??gam ] Lit. ib. ) , to cling or stick > or adhere to , be attached to or engaged in or occupied with (loc.) Lit. > Br. Lit. Ragh. Lit. Naish. : Pass. [ sajy?te ] ( generally [ sajjate ] , > ep. also [ ?ti ] ) , to be attached or fastened , adhere , cling , stick > (with [ na ] , " to fly through without sticking " , as an arrow) Lit. ?Br. > ; to linger , hesitate Lit. MBh. Lit. R. ; to be devoted to or intent on or > occupied with (loc.) Lit. MBh. Lit. K?v. : Caus. [ sa?jayati ] (aor. [ > asasa?jat ] ; for [ sajjayati ] see ? [ sajj ] ) , to cause to stick or > cling to , unite or connect with (loc.) Lit. Bhag. Lit. ?a?k. : Desid. [ > sisa?k?ati ] see [ ?-? sa?j ] : Intens. [ s?sajyate ] , [ s?sa?kti ] Gr. ( > ( cf. accord. to some , Lat. (segnis) ; Lith. (segu4) , " I attach. " ) > > > *B?thlingk & Roth:* > > sa?j , sajati Dh?tup. 23, 18 (sa?ge, pari?va?ge). P. 6, 4, 25. Vop. 8, > 102. as??k??t (s. u. pra), sasa?ja, sasa?jatus und sasajatus Vop. asakta? > sa?k?y?mi (vgl. unter ? und K?r. 2 aus Siddh. zu P. 7, 2, 10 ); > partic. sakta . > 1) *anh?ngen, zusammenh?ngen* ???kh. Br. 24, 1. yad adya dugdha? > p?thiv?m asakta *sich h?ngen an* Tbr. 1, 4, 3, 3. > ? 2) act. *h?ngen bleiben, sich anheften*: sasa?ju? (sasajju? ed. Calc.) > ? mattebhaka?e?u phalare?ava? Ragh. 4, 47. > ? 3) pass. sajyate *h?ngen* (intrans.) *an* ?at. Br. 10, 2, 6, 8. 14, 6, > 9, 28. 11, 6. gew?hnlich mit Assimilation sajjate (episch auch sajjati, > welches Dh?tup. 7, 22 als bes. Wurzel in der Bed. gatau angefuhrt wird; > etc?? > > ? anu > 1) act. > a) *beh?ngen*: ?tm?na? rasena ?at. Br. 7, 3, 1, 3. > ? b) *hinzuf?gen* P?r. G?hy. 1, 5. 8. > ? 2) pass. > a) ?sajyate > ?) *h?ngen bleiben ?, haften an* (loc.): dharmap?te ca manasi nabhas?va > na j?tu rajo 'nu?ajyate Da?ak. 64, 18. *sich anschliessen* Comm. zu Vs. > Pr?t. 4, 173. > ? ?) *sich wieder anschliessen* so v. a. *aus dem Vorangehenden > nachgelten, - zu erg?nzen sein*: sa?nidh?n?d evety anu?ajyate Comm. > zu Kap. 1, 98. S?h. D. 238, 4. > ? b) ??ajjate > ?) *sich Jmd* (acc.) *anschliessen* so v. a. *auf dem Fusse folgen*: gop?s > tam anvasajjanta ?aka?ai? Bh?g. P. 10, 39, 33. 83, 34. > ? ?) *h?ngen an* so v. a. *sich hingeben, sich besch?ftigen mit, mit den > Gedanken, mit dem Herzen bei Etwas* (loc.) *sein*: indriy?rthe?u, > karmasu Bhag. 6, 4. ku?ale karma?i 18, 10. k?ye Bh?g. P. 4, 20, > 5. dravi?e 11, 23, 23. > > > > Puis encore dans : > > *Wackernagel*, Vol 1, p163 : jj < jy > > > > > *Kale* : Higher Sanskrit Grammar App II p 138: > > > > > > Bref, je n?ai rien trouv? de r?gle solide qui explique le jj ! Renou parle > de g?minations en g?n?ral, mais j?avoue ne pas avoir compris?. > > J?attends vos commentaires ! > > Bonne soir?e, > Edmond > > > > ??????????????????? > Christophe Vielle > Louvain-la-Neuve > > > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing > committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or > unsubscribe) > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image002.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 26161 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image003.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 27568 bytes Desc: not available URL: From hspier.muktabodha at gmail.com Thu Oct 17 00:12:38 2019 From: hspier.muktabodha at gmail.com (Harry Spier) Date: Wed, 16 Oct 19 20:12:38 -0400 Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_[INDOLOGY]_Fwd:_sa=C3=B1j_sajjate?= In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I left out an important part of the reference: i.e. p. 244 The passive sajyate (sa?j) was the base of a secondary root sajj 'to cling' to be caught' (with 'MIA' assimilation of the cluster -jy- [cf. lajjate < *lajyate ~rajyate]). Harry Spier On Wed, Oct 16, 2019 at 7:49 PM Harry Spier wrote: > Here is Oberlies reference: > > saj -> sa(?)j > > > sajj 'to stick, to be caught' (I. [cf. VIA I 210]) --- see p. 244 > > > pr. sajjati, Mbh 1,203.15, 5,55.9 (sam+), 177.20, 13,21.10 (sa?pra+), > 39.1, 499* (pra+), 132.7, sajjate, Mbh 3,2.16 ~ 240.3, 5,9.8,67.15, R > 2,54.4 (sam+), 100.6, 4,28.20.25, 58.29, 5,37.35, 49, 16 > > pf. (sa?)sasajjatu? Mbh 6,43.69 > > sec. caus. sajjayate R 6, 150*.8 (pra+), 7,60.17 > > rem. A denominative of sajja ( ready' (Mbh 5,150.21 (sajjayanti sma n?g?n], R 7,60.17 [sajjaye y?vad > ?yudham]). Its causative is sajjayate 'to get ready' (Mbh 14,51.2 > [sajjayadhvam pray?sy?ma?]), its passive sajj(?)yate 'to be made ready' > (Mbh 6,19.39 [... sajj?yam?ne?u sainye?u ...], 8,50.36 [?yudh?ni ... > sajjyant?m]) and its verbal adjective sajjita - 'ready' (Mbh 7,53.25). > > > Harry Spier > > On Wed, Oct 16, 2019 at 4:12 AM Christophe Vielle via INDOLOGY < > indology at list.indology.info> wrote: > >> Dear list, >> >> a student of mine asks me about the form *sajjate* usually presented (in >> Western dictionaries and grammars at the least) as a passive >> alternative/epic form of *sajyate* (see infra; also, even more >> surprising, the form * sajjati* is sometimes also given as a secondary >> passive form). I am not a specialist of grammar, nevertheless I have a >> real difficulty to consider as a passive form something without an apparent >> -*ya *suffix (and without middle ending for *sajjati ? *note that the >> latter form is also proposed by Whitney G to come from a Cl. IV **sajyati >> *or from **sasjati*), and, additionally, why in this case to postulate >> such an assimilation* jj < jy *and not a more obvious or natural* ?j > >> jj* . It seems indeed to me more easy to consider *sajjate *(and >> *sajjati*) as alternative M (and A) form = **sa?jate *(and **sa?jati*, >> which is given by Kale G), beside more classical *sajate/i*. The two >> causative forms *sa?jayati *and *sajjayati *appears to confirm this >> explanation (cf. also in MW the double entry *sajj = **sa?j*); however, >> the other has for it the epic abs. ?*sajja* (for ?*sajya*) given by >> Wackernagel (I have not Oberlies here at hand to check this reference). >> Thank you for your comments. Especially, I would be interested to know >> 1? if it happens that indigenous grammars also consider *sajjate* as a >> passive form >> 2? linguistic historical or comparative arguments for * jj < jy *rather >> than *< ?j* >> >> Best wishes, >> Christophe >> >> *From:* Edmond Differding >> *Sent:* Tuesday, October 15, 2019 18:19 >> *To:* Christophe Vielle >> *Subject:* sa?j sajjate >> >> Voici ce que j?ai trouv? sur sajjate : >> >> *Grammaire de Whitney ?746 * >> >> >> >> >> *Whitney Roots :* >> >> >> >> >> *Renou ?9 [p. 8] :* >> >> >> "Assimilation... par pr?kritisme... sont ainsi pass?s dans la langue >> sajj- 46a)" >> >> >> [> ?46a, p. 50]: "Les rac. en -jj- donn?es gr. comme reposant sur -sj-" >> >> >> *Renou ?71.a)1) [p. 77] :* >> >> >> rac. sa?j ? d?pourvue de nasale au pr?sent (en ya), facultativement au >> causatif, et le maintient ailleurs >> >> >> *Macdonell* : >> >> 133.A.4.: mentionne juste: perd la nasale : saj-a- >> >> >> *Huet/Heritage : * >> >> *sa?j* var. *saj* v. [1 >> ] >> pr. *(sajati)* pr. r. *(sajate)* pft. *(sasa?ja)* pp. *(sakta)* pf. *(* >> *anu* >> >> , *?* >> >> , *ni* >> >> , *pra* >> >> , *sam* >> >> *)* adh?rer ? ps. *(sajjate)* ?tre attach? ?, ?tre suspendu ? >> >> >> *Monier Williams : * >> >> [* sajj *]2 ( = ? [* sa?j >> * ] >> ; cf. [ *sajjaya >> * ] >> ) , Caus. [* sajjayati *] , to cling , adhere , fasten or fix or attach >> to (loc.) Lit. Kath?s. ; to fix (the mind) upon Lit. BhP. ; to cause one's >> self to be embraced (by other men) Lit. Mn. viii , 362. >> >> [ sa?j ]2 Root ( or [ saj ] ) cl. [1] P. ( Lit. Dh?tup. xxiii , 18) [ >> s?jati ] ( rarely ?. [ ?te ] ; pf. [ sasa?ja ] Lit. Br. ( in some rare and >> doubtful cases in Lit. MBh. and Lit. Ragh. [ sasajja ] ) ; 3. pl. [ seju? ] >> Lit. ?Br. ; aor. [ as??k??t ] , [ s??k??t ] , UP. ; [ asa?ji ] Lit. Br. ; [ >> ?sakth?s ] , [ ?ta ] Lit. RV. Lit. Br. ; Prec. [ sajy?t ] Gr. ; fut. [ >> sa?kt? ] , [ sa?k?yati ] Lit. ib. ; inf. [ saktum ] Lit. MBh. ; [ sa?ktos ] >> Lit. Br. ; ind.p. [ -sajya ] , [ -s??gam ] Lit. ib. ) , to cling or stick >> or adhere to , be attached to or engaged in or occupied with (loc.) Lit. >> Br. Lit. Ragh. Lit. Naish. : Pass. [ sajy?te ] ( generally [ sajjate ] , >> ep. also [ ?ti ] ) , to be attached or fastened , adhere , cling , stick >> (with [ na ] , " to fly through without sticking " , as an arrow) Lit. ?Br. >> ; to linger , hesitate Lit. MBh. Lit. R. ; to be devoted to or intent on or >> occupied with (loc.) Lit. MBh. Lit. K?v. : Caus. [ sa?jayati ] (aor. [ >> asasa?jat ] ; for [ sajjayati ] see ? [ sajj ] ) , to cause to stick or >> cling to , unite or connect with (loc.) Lit. Bhag. Lit. ?a?k. : Desid. [ >> sisa?k?ati ] see [ ?-? sa?j ] : Intens. [ s?sajyate ] , [ s?sa?kti ] Gr. ( >> ( cf. accord. to some , Lat. (segnis) ; Lith. (segu4) , " I attach. " ) >> >> >> *B?thlingk & Roth:* >> >> sa?j , sajati Dh?tup. 23, 18 (sa?ge, pari?va?ge). P. 6, 4, 25. Vop. 8, >> 102. as??k??t (s. u. pra), sasa?ja, sasa?jatus und sasajatus Vop. asakta? >> sa?k?y?mi (vgl. unter ? und K?r. 2 aus Siddh. zu P. 7, 2, 10 ); >> partic. sakta . >> 1) *anh?ngen, zusammenh?ngen* ???kh. Br. 24, 1. yad adya dugdha? >> p?thiv?m asakta *sich h?ngen an* Tbr. 1, 4, 3, 3. >> ? 2) act. *h?ngen bleiben, sich anheften*: sasa?ju? (sasajju? ed. Calc.) >> ? mattebhaka?e?u phalare?ava? Ragh. 4, 47. >> ? 3) pass. sajyate *h?ngen* (intrans.) *an* ?at. Br. 10, 2, 6, 8. 14, 6, >> 9, 28. 11, 6. gew?hnlich mit Assimilation sajjate (episch auch sajjati, >> welches Dh?tup. 7, 22 als bes. Wurzel in der Bed. gatau angefuhrt wird; >> etc?? >> >> ? anu >> 1) act. >> a) *beh?ngen*: ?tm?na? rasena ?at. Br. 7, 3, 1, 3. >> ? b) *hinzuf?gen* P?r. G?hy. 1, 5. 8. >> ? 2) pass. >> a) ?sajyate >> ?) *h?ngen bleiben ?, haften an* (loc.): dharmap?te ca manasi nabhas?va >> na j?tu rajo 'nu?ajyate Da?ak. 64, 18. *sich anschliessen* Comm. zu Vs. >> Pr?t. 4, 173. >> ? ?) *sich wieder anschliessen* so v. a. *aus dem Vorangehenden >> nachgelten, - zu erg?nzen sein*: sa?nidh?n?d evety anu?ajyate Comm. >> zu Kap. 1, 98. S?h. D. 238, 4. >> ? b) ??ajjate >> ?) *sich Jmd* (acc.) *anschliessen* so v. a. *auf dem Fusse folgen*: gop?s >> tam anvasajjanta ?aka?ai? Bh?g. P. 10, 39, 33. 83, 34. >> ? ?) *h?ngen an* so v. a. *sich hingeben, sich besch?ftigen mit, mit den >> Gedanken, mit dem Herzen bei Etwas* (loc.) *sein*: indriy?rthe?u, >> karmasu Bhag. 6, 4. ku?ale karma?i 18, 10. k?ye Bh?g. P. 4, 20, >> 5. dravi?e 11, 23, 23. >> >> >> >> Puis encore dans : >> >> *Wackernagel*, Vol 1, p163 : jj < jy >> >> >> >> >> *Kale* : Higher Sanskrit Grammar App II p 138: >> >> >> >> >> >> Bref, je n?ai rien trouv? de r?gle solide qui explique le jj ! Renou >> parle de g?minations en g?n?ral, mais j?avoue ne pas avoir compris?. >> >> J?attends vos commentaires ! >> >> Bonne soir?e, >> Edmond >> >> >> >> ??????????????????? >> Christophe Vielle >> Louvain-la-Neuve >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> INDOLOGY mailing list >> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info >> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing >> committee) >> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or >> unsubscribe) >> > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image002.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 26161 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image003.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 27568 bytes Desc: not available URL: From gaiapintucci at gmail.com Thu Oct 17 01:26:54 2019 From: gaiapintucci at gmail.com (Gaia Pintucci) Date: Thu, 17 Oct 19 10:26:54 +0900 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Fwd: Hobson Jobson Dictionary In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Dear Antonia, That is the Teltscher edition I was mentioning, that is described as a *selected edition* on the title page. Besides, it consists of 624 pages only, while I know of editions that consist of 1000-odd pages: a further reason to believe that it is actually abridged. All the best, GP -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From prajnapti at gmail.com Thu Oct 17 03:32:10 2019 From: prajnapti at gmail.com (Dan Lusthaus) Date: Wed, 16 Oct 19 23:32:10 -0400 Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_[INDOLOGY]_sa=C3=B1j_sajjate?= In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <086638F7-F469-4FE2-8DEB-D800DB4CED8C@gmail.com> Dear all, For what it is worth, a few Pali references, and a bit of Sanskrit: PTS Pali-English Dict https://dsalsrv04.uchicago.edu/cgi-bin/app/pali_query.py?qs=Sajjati 1) Visajjati (p. 639 ) Visajjati Visajjati [vi+sajjati, Pass. of sa?j; the regular Act. would be visajati] to hang on, cling to, stick to, adhere (fig.); only in pp. visatta (q. v.). -- The apparent ger. form visajja belongs to vissajjati. 1) Vissajjati (p. 641 ) Vissajjati Vissajjati [vi+sajjati, of s?j. The ss after analogy of ussajjati & nissajjati, cp. ossajjati for osajjati]. A. The pres. vissajjati is not in use. The only forms of the simple verb system are the foll.: ger. vissajja, usually written visajja, in meaning "setting free," giving up, leaving behind Sn 522, 794, 912, 1060; Nd1 98; Nd2 596. -- grd. vissajjaniya [perhaps better to vissajjeti1] to be answered, answerable; nt. a reply Nett 161, 175 sq., 191; and vissajjiya to be given away: see under a?. <-> pp. vissa??ha. -- B. Very frequent is the Caus. vissajjeti (also occasionally as visajj?) in var. meanings, based on the idea of sending forth or away, viz. to emit, discharge J i.164 (ucc?ra -- pass?va?). -- to send Mhvs 8, 3 (leka? visajjayi). -- to dismiss PvA 81 (there). -- to let loose PvA 74 (ratha?). -- to spend, give away, bestow, hand over Pug 26 (visajj?); Nd1 262 (dhana?); Miln 41 (dha??a?); PvA 111, 119. -- to get rid of J i.134 (muddika?). -- to answer (questions), to reply, retort Sn 1005 (?essati, fut.); VvA 71; PvA 15, 59, 87. -- pp. vissajjita. -- Caus. II. vissajj?peti (in meanings of vissajjeti) J iv.2 (hattha?=to push away); Miln 143; Mhvs 6, 43. 1) Sanga (p. 666 ) Sanga Sanga [fr. sa?j: see sajjati1] cleaving, clinging, attach- ment, bond S i.25, 117 sq.; A iii.311; iv.289; Dh 170, 342, etc.; Sn 61, 212, 386, 390, 475, etc.; Dhs 1059; DhsA 363; J iii.201; the five sangas are r?ga, dosa, moha, m?na, and di??hi, Thag. 633=Dhp. 370; DhA iv.187; seven sangas, It. 94; Nd1 91, 432; Nd2 620. -- ?tiga one who has overcome attachment, free from attachment, an Arahant M i.386; S i.3, 23; iv.158= It 58; Sn 250, 473, 621; DhA iv.159. 1) Sajjati (p. 668 ) Sajjati Sajjati [Pass. of sa?j or saj to hang. Cp. sanga] 1. to cling, to, to be attached S i.38, 111 (aor. 2 sg. sajjittho); ii.228; A ii.165; J i.376 (id. asajjittho); Sn 522, 536. ppr. (a)sajjam?na (un) -- attached Sn 28, 466; J iii.352. -- 2. to hesitate J i.376 (asajjitv? without hesitation). -- pp. satta1. -- Cp. abhi? & vi?. 1) Satta (p. 673 ) Satta Satta1 [pp. of sa?j: sajjati] hanging, clinging or attached to Vin i.185; D ii.246; Nd1 23, 24; Dh 342; J i.376. Cp. ?satta1 & by?satta. ? Critical Pali Dictionary https://cpd.uni-koeln.de/search?article_id=8235 abhi-sajjati , pr. 3 sg. (orig. pass, of prec, cf. sa. sajjate, Buddh.sa. abhi-?ajyate, Av-? 1286,1), (a) Utt. to stick fast on, to linger in (g?me); (b) to take offence (+ kuppati); AN I 127,1 (~ati + kuppati vy?pajjati pati??h?yati (or ?tth?yati) kopa? ca dosa? ca appac- caya? ca p?tukaroti) ? AN II 203,16 foll. (quoted Sadd 96,27)?AN III 181,10 foll..?Pp 30,6 (= laggati, Pp-a) = 36,26 ? MN III 204,19 foll.; 1 sg. n'ev?bhisajj?mi na c?pi kuppe, Ja III 120,15* (= lagg?mi, Ct.); pot. 3 sg. ~eyya, Sn 929 (g?me ca n?bhisajjeyya; = g?me ca gihisa?sagg?d?hi ~, Pj; cf. Nidd I 387,1 (a)); as to pot. 3 sg. med. ~etha, Ja V 175,24' (see abhi-sajjati? DN III 159,8 (n??; = ku?ila-ka??ako viya tattha tattha mamma? (so pt, Se; Ee tattha ca camma?) tudanto viya na laggi, Sv); 1 sg. ~sajji?, AN II 204,34 (+ kuppi?, etc.); inf. ~itum (im?ya appamatt?ya), DN I 91,28 (= kodha-vasena laggitu?, Sv). ? from Huet?s Sanskrit Grammar Companion: Conjugation https://sanskrit.inria.fr/cgi-bin/SKT/sktconjug.cgi?lex=MW&q=sa%7Enj&t=VH&c=1&font=roma from the conjugation tables of sa?j. Causative conjugation: Participles Past Passive Participle sajjita m. n. sajjit? f. Past Active Participle sajjitavat m. n. sajjitavat? f. Present Active Participle sajjayat m. n. sajjayant? f. Present Middle Participle sajjayam?na m. n. sajjayam?n? f. Present Passive Participle sajjyam?na m. n. sajjyam?n? f. Future Active Participle sajjayi?yat m. n. sajjayi?yant? f. Future Middle Participle sajjayi?yam??a m. n. sajjayi?yam??? f. Future Passive Participle sajjya m. n. sajjy? f. Future Passive Participle sajjan?ya m. n. sajjan?y? f. Future Passive Participle sajjayitavya m. n. sajjayitavy? f. Dan -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From hspier.muktabodha at gmail.com Thu Oct 17 03:59:51 2019 From: hspier.muktabodha at gmail.com (Harry Spier) Date: Wed, 16 Oct 19 23:59:51 -0400 Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_[INDOLOGY]_sa=C3=B1j_sajjate?= In-Reply-To: <086638F7-F469-4FE2-8DEB-D800DB4CED8C@gmail.com> Message-ID: Also from Turner- Comparative dictionary of Indo-Aryan 1) sajya (p. 758 ) 13095 *sajya* ? strung (of bow) ? Kau?., *sajja* -- ? id., put in place on bow (of arrow) ? MBh., *sajj?* -- f. ? equipment, dress ? lex. [sa -- 2, jy?? -- . -- But prob. both in specialized use with bow and arrow and in more general mng. ? ready ? (MBh.), ? equipment, dress, &c. ? (NIA.) conn. with ?sa?j, i.e. *sajya* -- ? *what is put on ? > ? ready (of equipment) ? > ? ready ?, cf. *?sakta* -- ? donned ? R., *prasajy?* -- f. ? application ? Pat., K. *sanz* infl. by *sa?jayati* &c. (J. C. W.) -- In mng. ? fresh ? see also sady?s, sady?ja -- .] Pa. *sajja* -- , *?aka* -- ? prepared (of bow with bowstring), ready ?; Pk. *sajja* -- ? ready ?, NiDoc. *sajaka*, ? Wo?. *s?z*, f. *sy?z* ? in good order, good ?; S. *saj?o* ? perfect ?, *s?j?o* ? in good state, well, fair (of wind), rich, righthand ?; L. *sajj?* (Ju. -- *j?j?* -- )? fresh, new, righthand ?, khet. *sajj?* ? righthand ?, aw??. *sajj?* ? decorated, righthand; P. *sajj?* ? righthand ?, *sajjr?* ? fresh ?; Ku. *s?j* ? necessary furniture ?, *sajilo* ? easy ?; N. *s?si* ? fresh, wholesome ? (< **s?j* after *b?si* ? stale ? < v?sita -- ), *sajilo* ? easy ?; A. *x?z* ? suit of clothes, set of ornaments ?, *x?zu* ? ready for action ?; B. *s?j* ? dress, ornament ?; Or. *s?ja* ? outfit, armour, harness ?; OMth. *s?ja* ? dressed up ?, Mth. *s?j* ? adornment, garments ?; Bhoj. *s?j* ? dress ?; OAw. *s?ja* ? decoration ?; H. *sajj?* ? righthand ?, *saj?l?* ? well -- shaped ?; OMarw. *s?ja* m. ? accoutrements ?; G. *s?ju?* ? sound, healthy ?, *s?j* m. ? dress, equipment ?, M. *s?j?* m.; Si. *s?da* ? saddle, trappings of horse, armour, pair of panniers ?; -- K. *sanz* m. ? equipment ?. sajjana -- 1, sajjayati, sajjita -- , sajjyat?. *sajy?t?* see s?jati. Addenda: *sajya -- :* WPah.k?g. *s?j???* ? freshly made (of food and drink) ?; Garh. *s?j* ? decoration ?, *sajilu* ? well -- decorated ?. *sajy?t?* see s?jati Add2 Harry Spier > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From psdmccartney at gmail.com Thu Oct 17 09:32:40 2019 From: psdmccartney at gmail.com (patrick mccartney) Date: Thu, 17 Oct 19 18:32:40 +0900 Subject: =?utf-8?Q?[INDOLOGY]_query_on_Ro=C5=9Fu_and_garu=E1=B8=8Da-khamba?= Message-ID: Dear Friends, I seek help in tracking down more information. Ro?u (1981, p. 442) explains that an alternative name for mallkhamb is *garu?a-khamba*, and that the movement of the exercises reproduce a mythical story which represents the winding up of the snake on the pole: ?Au Karn??aka, le m?t du jeu moderne, originaire du Mah?r???ra, est appel? *mallakhamba* (<*mallastambha*) ou *garu?a-khamba*, parce que les exercises sont cens?s reproduire la lutte de Garu?a et du serpent. En effet, l'athl?te s'accroche au *stambha* autour duquel il s'enroule ? l'instar d'un reptile. Les acrobates Dombar, d'origine nomade, s'en servent eux aussi pour leurs d?monstrations publiques.? I cannot find any other mention of garu?a-khamba being synonymous with mallakhamba. Might someone be able to help? I would really appreciate it. Thank you. All the best, ????? ??????? Patrick McCartney, PhD JSPS Fellow - Graduate School of Global Environmental Studies, Kyoto University, Japan Research Associate - Nanzan University Anthropological Institute, Nagoya, Japan Research Affiliate - Organization for Identity and Cultural Development (OICD), Kyoto Visiting Fellow - South and South-east Asian Studies Department, Australian National University Member - South Asia Research Institute (SARI), Australian National University Skype / Zoom - psdmccartney Phone + Whatsapp + Line: +81-80-9811-3235 Twitter - @psdmccartney @yogascapesinjap Yogascapes in Japan Academia Linkedin Modern Yoga Research *bodhap?rvam calema* ;-) - -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From christophe.vielle at uclouvain.be Thu Oct 17 17:19:28 2019 From: christophe.vielle at uclouvain.be (Christophe Vielle) Date: Thu, 17 Oct 19 17:19:28 +0000 Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_[INDOLOGY]_Fwd:_sa=C3=B1j_sajjate?= In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <7ADFEE60-C1C6-46E3-B355-20998890C83F@uclouvain.be> Thanks to Harry Spier and Dan Lusthaus for all these additional datas. So jy > jj can be diachronically explained by the " 'MIA' assimilation of the cluster -jy-" according to Oberlies; nevertheless, other historical explanations are possible (in addition to mine, cf. Whitney G and Renou G below). Note that the epic form of the abs./gerund. ?sajja (for ?sajya) given by Wackernagel is not found in Oberlies and so cannot be taken into account (even if the form could exist in Pali, see below vissajja, it is there considered as the gerund. of ?s?deti, Caus. of ?s?dati, ? + sad; Sk. ?s?dya) . However, in a synchronic descriptive view, even Oberlies, like Kulikov, does not really present the "secondary" forms sajjate and sajjati as "passive", that, unless I am wrong, they cannot be for the indigenous grammarians. They are middle or active present of the "secondary" root sajj. It is only because authoritative Western sources like PW or MW qualify the form "sajjate" as a passive, that it is so given in Huet generator, as he explained to me (I quote him): Just a precision concerning sajjate. What I indicate in root entries is just indicative, but this is not used by the morphology generation mechanism. Thus for passive of sa?j I generate first the Paninian form sajyate, and only in a supplementary pass I add sajjate. See here. https://sanskrit.inria.fr/cgi-bin/SKT/sktconjug.cgi?lex=SH&q=sa~nj&t=VH&c=1&font=roma This is the general method, I have a general productive scheme that strives to be Paninian, and I have a supplement for generating extra forms found in the literature. For instance, here is the relevant code in the Verbs module: and compute_extra_sanj () = (* WR Oberlies p LI *) let root = "sa~nj" and conj = Primary and pastem = revcode "sajj" (* "y" replaced by j in passive *) in compute_passive_system conj root pastem This way I can accommodate epic forms in a way that does not pollute the main paradigms. For epic forms I generally follow Oberlies, who alludes to sajjate on page LI of his Grammar of Epic Sanskrit, a wonderful resource. Le 17 oct. 2019 ? 01:49, Harry Spier > a ?crit : Here is Oberlies reference: saj -> sa(?)j sajj 'to stick, to be caught' (I. [cf. VIA I 210]) --- see p. 244 pr. sajjati, Mbh 1,203.15, 5,55.9 (sam+), 177.20, 13,21.10 (sa?pra+), 39.1, 499* (pra+), 132.7, sajjate, Mbh 3,2.16 ~ 240.3, 5,9.8,67.15, R 2,54.4 (sam+), 100.6, 4,28.20.25, 58.29, 5,37.35, 49, 16 pf. (sa?)sasajjatu? Mbh 6,43.69 sec. caus. sajjayate R 6, 150*.8 (pra+), 7,60.17 rem. A denominative of sajja (. ready' (Mbh 5,150.21 (sajjayanti sma n?g?n], R 7,60.17 [sajjaye y?vad ?yudham]). Its causative is sajjayate 'to get ready' (Mbh 14,51.2 [sajjayadhvam pray?sy?ma?]), its passive sajj(?)yate 'to be made ready' (Mbh 6,19.39 [... sajj?yam?ne?u sainye?u ...], 8,50.36 [?yudh?ni ... sajjyant?m]) and its verbal adjective sajjita - 'ready' (Mbh 7,53.25). Harry Spier I left out an important part of the reference: i.e. p. 244 The passive sajyate (sa?j) was the base of a secondary root sajj 'to cling' to be caught' (with 'MIA' assimilation of the cluster -jy- [cf. lajjate < *lajyate ~rajyate]). Harry Spier Also from Turner- Comparative dictionary of Indo-Aryan 1) sajya (p. 758) 13095 sajya ? strung (of bow) ? Kau?., sajja -- ? id., put in place on bow (of arrow) ? MBh., sajj? -- f. ? equipment, dress ? lex. [sa -- 2, jy?? -- . -- But prob. both in specialized use with bow and arrow and in more general mng. ? ready ? (MBh.), ? equipment, dress, &c. ? (NIA.) conn. with ?sa?j, i.e. sajya -- ? *what is put on ? > ? ready (of equipment) ? > ? ready ?, cf. ?sakta -- ? donned ? R., prasajy? -- f. ? application ? Pat., K. sanz infl. by sa?jayati &c. (J. C. W.) -- In mng. ? fresh ? see also sady?s, sady?ja -- .] Pa. sajja -- , ?aka -- ? prepared (of bow with bowstring), ready ?; Pk. sajja -- ? ready ?, NiDoc. sajaka, ? Wo?. s?z, f. sy?z ? in good order, good ?; S. saj?o ? perfect ?, s?j?o ? in good state, well, fair (of wind), rich, righthand ?; L. sajj? (Ju. -- j?j? -- )? fresh, new, righthand ?, khet. sajj? ? righthand ?, aw??. sajj? ? decorated, righthand; P. sajj? ? righthand ?, sajjr? ? fresh ?; Ku. s?j ? necessary furniture ?, sajilo ? easy ?; N. s?si ? fresh, wholesome ? (< *s?j after b?si ? stale ? < v?sita -- ), sajilo ? easy ?; A. x?z ? suit of clothes, set of ornaments ?, x?zu ? ready for action ?; B. s?j ? dress, ornament ?; Or. s?ja ? outfit, armour, harness ?; OMth. s?ja ? dressed up ?, Mth. s?j ? adornment, garments ?; Bhoj. s?j ? dress ?; OAw. s?ja ? decoration ?; H. sajj? ? righthand ?, saj?l? ? well -- shaped ?; OMarw. s?ja m. ? accoutrements ?; G. s?ju? ? sound, healthy ?, s?j m. ? dress, equipment ?, M. s?j? m.; Si. s?da ? saddle, trappings of horse, armour, pair of panniers ?; -- K. sanz m. ? equipment ?. sajjana -- 1, sajjayati, sajjita -- , sajjyat?. sajy?t? see s?jati. Addenda: sajya -- : WPah.k?g. s?j??? ? freshly made (of food and drink) ?; Garh. s?j ? decoration ?, sajilu ? well -- decorated ?. sajy?t? see s?jati Add2 Harry Spier Dear all, For what it is worth, a few Pali references, and a bit of Sanskrit: PTS Pali-English Dict https://dsalsrv04.uchicago.edu/cgi-bin/app/pali_query.py?qs=Sajjati 1) Visajjati (p. 639) Visajjati Visajjati [vi+sajjati, Pass. of sa?j; the regular Act. would be visajati] to hang on, cling to, stick to, adhere (fig.); only in pp. visatta (q. v.). -- The apparent ger. form visajja belongs to vissajjati. 1) Vissajjati (p. 641) Vissajjati Vissajjati [vi+sajjati, of s?j. The ss after analogy of ussajjati & nissajjati, cp. ossajjati for osajjati]. A. The pres. vissajjati is not in use. The only forms of the simple verb system are the foll.: ger. vissajja, usually written visajja, in meaning "setting free," giving up, leaving behind Sn 522, 794, 912, 1060; Nd1 98; Nd2 596. -- grd. vissajjaniya [perhaps better to vissajjeti1] to be answered, answerable; nt. a reply Nett 161, 175 sq., 191; and vissajjiya to be given away: see under a?. <-> pp. vissa??ha. -- B. Very frequent is the Caus. vissajjeti (also occasionally as visajj?) in var. meanings, based on the idea of sending forth or away, viz. to emit, discharge J i.164 (ucc?ra -- pass?va?). -- to send Mhvs 8, 3 (leka? visajjayi). -- to dismiss PvA 81 (there). -- to let loose PvA 74 (ratha?). -- to spend, give away, bestow, hand over Pug 26 (visajj?); Nd1 262 (dhana?); Miln 41 (dha??a?); PvA 111, 119. -- to get rid of J i.134 (muddika?). -- to answer (questions), to reply, retort Sn 1005 (?essati, fut.); VvA 71; PvA 15, 59, 87. -- pp. vissajjita. -- Caus. II. vissajj?peti (in meanings of vissajjeti) J iv.2 (hattha?=to push away); Miln 143; Mhvs 6, 43. 1) Sanga (p. 666) Sanga Sanga [fr. sa?j: see sajjati1] cleaving, clinging, attach- ment, bond S i.25, 117 sq.; A iii.311; iv.289; Dh 170, 342, etc.; Sn 61, 212, 386, 390, 475, etc.; Dhs 1059; DhsA 363; J iii.201; the five sangas are r?ga, dosa, moha, m?na, and di??hi, Thag. 633=Dhp. 370; DhA iv.187; seven sangas, It. 94; Nd1 91, 432; Nd2 620. -- ?tiga one who has overcome attachment, free from attachment, an Arahant M i.386; S i.3, 23; iv.158= It 58; Sn 250, 473, 621; DhA iv.159. 1) Sajjati (p. 668) Sajjati Sajjati [Pass. of sa?j or saj to hang. Cp. sanga] 1. to cling, to, to be attached S i.38, 111 (aor. 2 sg. sajjittho); ii.228; A ii.165; J i.376 (id. asajjittho); Sn 522, 536. ppr. (a)sajjam?na (un) -- attached Sn 28, 466; J iii.352. -- 2. to hesitate J i.376 (asajjitv? without hesitation). -- pp. satta1. -- Cp. abhi? & vi?. 1) Satta (p. 673) Satta Satta1 [pp. of sa?j: sajjati] hanging, clinging or attached to Vin i.185; D ii.246; Nd1 23, 24; Dh 342; J i.376. Cp. ?satta1 & by?satta. ? Critical Pali Dictionary https://cpd.uni-koeln.de/search?article_id=8235 abhi-sajjati , pr. 3 sg. (orig. pass, of prec, cf. sa. sajjate, Buddh.sa. abhi-?ajyate, Av-? 1286,1), (a) Utt. to stick fast on, to linger in (g?me); (b) to take offence (+ kuppati); AN I 127,1 (~ati + kuppati vy?pajjati pati??h?yati (or ?tth?yati) kopa? ca dosa? ca appac- caya? ca p?tukaroti) ? AN II 203,16 foll. (quoted Sadd 96,27)?AN III 181,10 foll..?Pp 30,6 (= laggati, Pp-a) = 36,26 ? MN III 204,19 foll.; 1 sg. n'ev?bhisajj?mi na c?pi kuppe, Ja III 120,15* (= lagg?mi, Ct.); pot. 3 sg. ~eyya, Sn 929 (g?me ca n?bhisajjeyya; = g?me ca gihisa?sagg?d?hi ~, Pj; cf. Nidd I 387,1 (a)); as to pot. 3 sg. med. ~etha, Ja V 175,24' (see abhi-sajjati? DN III 159,8 (n??; = ku?ila-ka??ako viya tattha tattha mamma? (so pt, Se; Ee tattha ca camma?) tudanto viya na laggi, Sv); 1 sg. ~sajji?, AN II 204,34 (+ kuppi?, etc.); inf. ~itum (im?ya appamatt?ya), DN I 91,28 (= kodha-vasena laggitu?, Sv). ? from Huet?s Sanskrit Grammar Companion: Conjugation https://sanskrit.inria.fr/cgi-bin/SKT/sktconjug.cgi?lex=MW&q=sa%7Enj&t=VH&c=1&font=roma from the conjugation tables of sa?j. Causative conjugation: Participles Past Passive Participle sajjita m. n. sajjit? f. Past Active Participle sajjitavat m. n. sajjitavat? f. Present Active Participle sajjayat m. n. sajjayant? f. Present Middle Participle sajjayam?na m. n. sajjayam?n? f. Present Passive Participle sajjyam?na m. n. sajjyam?n? f. Future Active Participle sajjayi?yat m. n. sajjayi?yant? f. Future Middle Participle sajjayi?yam??a m. n. sajjayi?yam??? f. Future Passive Participle sajjya m. n. sajjy? f. Future Passive Participle sajjan?ya m. n. sajjan?y? f. Future Passive Participle sajjayitavya m. n. sajjayitavy? f. Dan Sorry for having omitted to mention on the subject the authoritative work of Leonid Kulikov, The Vedic -ya- presents: Passives and intransivity in Old Indo-Aryan, Leiden Studies in Indo-European 19, 2012, pp. 273-275; he also explains sajja- forms (already attested in Ved. Br.) as = sajya-, but never explicitely says that sajjate is a passive form (rather a middle class present, and sajjati an active present). On Wed, Oct 16, 2019 at 4:12 AM Christophe Vielle via INDOLOGY > wrote: Dear list, a student of mine asks me about the form sajjate usually presented (in Western dictionaries and grammars at the least) as a passive alternative/epic form of sajyate (see infra; also, even more surprising, the form sajjati is sometimes also given as a secondary passive form). I am not a specialist of grammar, nevertheless I have a real difficulty to consider as a passive form something without an apparent -ya suffix (and without middle ending for sajjati ? note that the latter form is also proposed by Whitney G to come from a Cl. IV *sajyati or from *sasjati), and, additionally, why in this case to postulate such an assimilation jj < jy and not a more obvious or natural ?j > jj . It seems indeed to me more easy to consider sajjate (and sajjati) as alternative M (and A) form = *sa?jate (and *sa?jati, which is given by Kale G), beside more classical sajate/i. The two causative forms sa?jayati and sajjayati appears to confirm this explanation (cf. also in MW the double entry sajj = sa?j); however, the other has for it the epic abs. ?sajja (for ?sajya) given by Wackernagel (I have not Oberlies here at hand to check this reference). Thank you for your comments. Especially, I would be interested to know 1? if it happens that indigenous grammars also consider sajjate as a passive form 2? linguistic historical or comparative arguments for jj < jy rather than < ?j Best wishes, Christophe From: Edmond Differding Sent: Tuesday, October 15, 2019 18:19 To: Christophe Vielle > Subject: sa?j sajjate Voici ce que j?ai trouv? sur sajjate : Grammaire de Whitney ?746 Whitney Roots : Renou ?9 [p. 8] : "Assimilation... par pr?kritisme... sont ainsi pass?s dans la langue sajj- 46a)" [> ?46a, p. 50]: "Les rac. en -jj- donn?es gr. comme reposant sur -sj-" Renou ?71.a)1) [p. 77] : rac. sa?j ? d?pourvue de nasale au pr?sent (en ya), facultativement au causatif, et le maintient ailleurs Macdonell : 133.A.4.: mentionne juste: perd la nasale : saj-a- Huet/Heritage : sa?j var. saj v. [1] pr. (sajati) pr. r. (sajate) pft. (sasa?ja) pp. (sakta) pf. (anu, ?, ni, pra, sam) adh?rer ? ps. (sajjate) ?tre attach? ?, ?tre suspendu ? Monier Williams : [ sajj ]2 ( = ? [ sa?j ] ; cf. [ sajjaya ] ) , Caus. [ sajjayati ] , to cling , adhere , fasten or fix or attach to (loc.) Lit. Kath?s. ; to fix (the mind) upon Lit. BhP. ; to cause one's self to be embraced (by other men) Lit. Mn. viii , 362. [ sa?j ]2 Root ( or [ saj ] ) cl. [1] P. ( Lit. Dh?tup. xxiii , 18) [ s?jati ] ( rarely ?. [ ?te ] ; pf. [ sasa?ja ] Lit. Br. ( in some rare and doubtful cases in Lit. MBh. and Lit. Ragh. [ sasajja ] ) ; 3. pl. [ seju? ] Lit. ?Br. ; aor. [ as??k??t ] , [ s??k??t ] , UP. ; [ asa?ji ] Lit. Br. ; [ ?sakth?s ] , [ ?ta ] Lit. RV. Lit. Br. ; Prec. [ sajy?t ] Gr. ; fut. [ sa?kt? ] , [ sa?k?yati ] Lit. ib. ; inf. [ saktum ] Lit. MBh. ; [ sa?ktos ] Lit. Br. ; ind.p. [ -sajya ] , [ -s??gam ] Lit. ib. ) , to cling or stick or adhere to , be attached to or engaged in or occupied with (loc.) Lit. Br. Lit. Ragh. Lit. Naish. : Pass. [ sajy?te ] ( generally [ sajjate ] , ep. also [ ?ti ] ) , to be attached or fastened , adhere , cling , stick (with [ na ] , " to fly through without sticking " , as an arrow) Lit. ?Br. ; to linger , hesitate Lit. MBh. Lit. R. ; to be devoted to or intent on or occupied with (loc.) Lit. MBh. Lit. K?v. : Caus. [ sa?jayati ] (aor. [ asasa?jat ] ; for [ sajjayati ] see ? [ sajj ] ) , to cause to stick or cling to , unite or connect with (loc.) Lit. Bhag. Lit. ?a?k. : Desid. [ sisa?k?ati ] see [ ?-? sa?j ] : Intens. [ s?sajyate ] , [ s?sa?kti ] Gr. ( ( cf. accord. to some , Lat. (segnis) ; Lith. (segu4) , " I attach. " ) B?thlingk & Roth: sa?j , sajati Dh?tup. 23, 18 (sa?ge, pari?va?ge). P. 6, 4, 25. Vop. 8, 102. as??k??t (s. u. pra), sasa?ja, sasa?jatus und sasajatus Vop. asakta? sa?k?y?mi (vgl. unter ? und K?r. 2 aus Siddh. zu P. 7, 2, 10 ); partic. sakta . 1) anh?ngen, zusammenh?ngen ???kh. Br. 24, 1. yad adya dugdha? p?thiv?m asakta sich h?ngen an Tbr. 1, 4, 3, 3. ? 2) act. h?ngen bleiben, sich anheften: sasa?ju? (sasajju? ed. Calc.) ? mattebhaka?e?u phalare?ava? Ragh. 4, 47. ? 3) pass. sajyate h?ngen (intrans.) an ?at. Br. 10, 2, 6, 8. 14, 6, 9, 28. 11, 6. gew?hnlich mit Assimilation sajjate (episch auch sajjati, welches Dh?tup. 7, 22 als bes. Wurzel in der Bed. gatau angefuhrt wird; etc?? ? anu 1) act. a) beh?ngen: ?tm?na? rasena ?at. Br. 7, 3, 1, 3. ? b) hinzuf?gen P?r. G?hy. 1, 5. 8. ? 2) pass. a) ?sajyate ?) h?ngen bleiben ?, haften an (loc.): dharmap?te ca manasi nabhas?va na j?tu rajo 'nu?ajyate Da?ak. 64, 18. sich anschliessen Comm. zu Vs. Pr?t. 4, 173. ? ?) sich wieder anschliessen so v. a. aus dem Vorangehenden nachgelten, - zu erg?nzen sein: sa?nidh?n?d evety anu?ajyate Comm. zu Kap. 1, 98. S?h. D. 238, 4. ? b) ??ajjate ?) sich Jmd (acc.) anschliessen so v. a. auf dem Fusse folgen: gop?s tam anvasajjanta ?aka?ai? Bh?g. P. 10, 39, 33. 83, 34. ? ?) h?ngen an so v. a. sich hingeben, sich besch?ftigen mit, mit den Gedanken, mit dem Herzen bei Etwas (loc.) sein: indriy?rthe?u, karmasu Bhag. 6, 4. ku?ale karma?i 18, 10. k?ye Bh?g. P. 4, 20, 5. dravi?e 11, 23, 23. Puis encore dans : Wackernagel, Vol 1, p163 : jj < jy [X] Kale : Higher Sanskrit Grammar App II p 138: [X] Bref, je n?ai rien trouv? de r?gle solide qui explique le jj ! Renou parle de g?minations en g?n?ral, mais j?avoue ne pas avoir compris?. J?attends vos commentaires ! Bonne soir?e, Edmond ??????????????????? Christophe Vielle Louvain-la-Neuve _______________________________________________ INDOLOGY mailing list INDOLOGY at list.indology.info indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) ??????????????????? Christophe Vielle Louvain-la-Neuve -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From sauthoff at ualberta.ca Thu Oct 17 18:33:37 2019 From: sauthoff at ualberta.ca (Patricia Sauthoff) Date: Thu, 17 Oct 19 12:33:37 -0600 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Fwd: Hobson Jobson Dictionary In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Dear Gaia, There are several copies on Abebooks.com that appear to be more than 1,000 pages. https://www.abebooks.com/servlet/BookDetailsPL?bi=14112458310&searchurl=sortby%3D17%26tn%3DHobson-Jobson%2Bdictionary&cm_sp=snippet-_-srp1-_-title16 On Wed, Oct 16, 2019 at 7:27 PM Gaia Pintucci via INDOLOGY < indology at list.indology.info> wrote: > Dear Antonia, > > That is the Teltscher edition I was mentioning, that is described as a > *selected edition* on the title page. > Besides, it consists of 624 pages only, while I know of editions that > consist of 1000-odd pages: a further reason to believe that it is actually > abridged. > > All the best, > GP > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing > committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or > unsubscribe) > -- Patricia Sauthoff (she/her/they/them) Postdoctoral Fellow AyurYog.org Department of History and Classics University of Alberta Edmonton, Canada -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From gaiapintucci at gmail.com Fri Oct 18 01:10:35 2019 From: gaiapintucci at gmail.com (Gaia Pintucci) Date: Fri, 18 Oct 19 10:10:35 +0900 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Hobson Jobson Dictionary In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Dear list members, I thank you all for your replies, both on and off-list. I am afraid that the synthetic fashion in which I formulated my initial query made it slightly unclear and I feel I should provide some more details. I could see on the Internet that there is more than one unabridged edition/reprint of the Hobson Jobson dictionary and I was wondering if one of them is for some reason (f.i. smaller amount of typos) to be preferred. This is really all I am concerning myself with. All the best, GP On Wed, Oct 16, 2019 at 4:31 PM Gaia Pintucci wrote: > Dear list members, > > Is there an edition/reprint of the Hobson Jobson dictionary you would > recommend above all others? > I am interested in acquiring a hard copy of it. > > I see that in 2013 a *selected edition* appeared, edited by Kate > Teltscher, but I would like to get hold of an *unabridged* one. > > NB: I am aware of the online resource that is hosted on the website of the > University of Chicago as well as of the existence of a freely available > pdf, but I am actually in search of an old-style book. > > I shall be grateful for any tips. > > With best wishes, > Gaia Pintucci > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From McComas.Taylor at anu.edu.au Fri Oct 18 02:42:23 2019 From: McComas.Taylor at anu.edu.au (McComas Taylor) Date: Fri, 18 Oct 19 02:42:23 +0000 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Email for Prof Chakravarti Message-ID: Dear Colleagues, Could some kind person please send me off-list Prof. Uma Chakravarti's email address? I have searched high and low... Thanks in advance McComas [cid:7ca5e061-21b0-4867-8ca1-108f5b796a90] McComas Taylor Associate Professor Reader in Sanskrit College of Asia and the Pacific The Australian National University WSC Website| McC Website Tel: +61 2 6125 3179 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From klaus.karttunen at helsinki.fi Fri Oct 18 10:33:05 2019 From: klaus.karttunen at helsinki.fi (Karttunen, Klaus J) Date: Fri, 18 Oct 19 10:33:05 +0000 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Hobson-Jobson Message-ID: Dear Colleagues, perhaps a bit of background information is useful. The original Hobson-Jobson. A Glossary of colloquial Anglo-Indian words and phrases, and of kindred terms, etymological, historical, geographical and discursive was compiled by Henry Yule (1820?1889) in collaboration with A. Burnell (1840?1882) and published much after Burnell?s death in 1886. A second edition was revised and published by William Crooke (1848?1923). Fortunately to us, Crooke?s additions are clearly marked as such. This 2nd ed. has been reprinted by Munshiram Manoharlal, my copy is from 1984. The work is a mine of information, but of rather little use for Sanskrit studies. Less well-known is that there is a similar dictionary of Portuguese words of Asian origin by Monsenhor Sebasti?o Rodolfo Dalgado (1855?1922): Gloss?rio Luso-Asi?tico. 1-2. 68+535+580 p. Coimbra 1919-21, reprinted in Hamburg 1982. Best, Klaus Klaus Karttunen South Asian and Indoeuropean Studies Asian and African Studies, Department of World Cultures PL 59 (Unioninkatu 38 B) 00014 University of Helsinki, FINLAND Tel +358-50 4482418 (office) +358-50 442439121 (personal) Klaus.Karttunen at helsinki.fi -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From BrodbeckSP at cardiff.ac.uk Fri Oct 18 13:11:57 2019 From: BrodbeckSP at cardiff.ac.uk (Simon Brodbeck) Date: Fri, 18 Oct 19 13:11:57 +0000 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Harivamsha publication announcement Message-ID: Dear colleagues, I am happy to announce the following publication: Simon Brodbeck (trans.), Krishna's Lineage: the Harivamsha of Vy?sa's Mah?bh?rata, Translated from the Sanskrit. New York: Oxford University Press, 2019. Pp. xl + 420. Hardback ISBN 9780190279172; paperback ISBN 9780190279189. It is a complete translation of P. L. Vaidya's critically reconstituted version (Poona, 1969). There are further details on the publisher's website here: https://global.oup.com/academic/product/krishnas-lineage-9780190279189?lang=en&cc=gb# The translation and its introduction are aimed at the general reader, so I have also published an article which is essentially a companion piece intended for a scholarly audience, discussing in some depth the edition used, the emendations made, the translation strategies adopted, and a few of the trickier passages: Simon Brodbeck, "Translating Vaidya's Hariva??a", Asian Literature and Translation 6.1 (2019), pp. 1?187. Abstract and download of that paper are available here: https://alt.cardiffuniversitypress.org/articles/abstract/10.18573/alt.45/ With all best wishes, Simon Brodbeck Cardiff University -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mkapstei at uchicago.edu Fri Oct 18 13:59:31 2019 From: mkapstei at uchicago.edu (Matthew Kapstein) Date: Fri, 18 Oct 19 13:59:31 +0000 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Harivamsha publication announcement In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Congratulations, Simon! Great achievement! Matthew Matthew Kapstein Directeur d'?tudes, Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes Numata Visiting Professor of Buddhist Studies, The University of Chicago ________________________________ From: INDOLOGY on behalf of Simon Brodbeck via INDOLOGY Sent: Friday, October 18, 2019 8:11 AM To: indology at list.indology.info ; +++RISA ACADEMIC DISCUSSION LIST+++ Subject: [INDOLOGY] Harivamsha publication announcement Dear colleagues, I am happy to announce the following publication: Simon Brodbeck (trans.), Krishna's Lineage: the Harivamsha of Vy?sa's Mah?bh?rata, Translated from the Sanskrit. New York: Oxford University Press, 2019. Pp. xl + 420. Hardback ISBN 9780190279172; paperback ISBN 9780190279189. It is a complete translation of P. L. Vaidya's critically reconstituted version (Poona, 1969). There are further details on the publisher's website here: https://global.oup.com/academic/product/krishnas-lineage-9780190279189?lang=en&cc=gb# The translation and its introduction are aimed at the general reader, so I have also published an article which is essentially a companion piece intended for a scholarly audience, discussing in some depth the edition used, the emendations made, the translation strategies adopted, and a few of the trickier passages: Simon Brodbeck, "Translating Vaidya's Hariva??a", Asian Literature and Translation 6.1 (2019), pp. 1?187. Abstract and download of that paper are available here: https://alt.cardiffuniversitypress.org/articles/abstract/10.18573/alt.45/ With all best wishes, Simon Brodbeck Cardiff University -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Christopher.Austin at Dal.Ca Fri Oct 18 14:33:06 2019 From: Christopher.Austin at Dal.Ca (Christopher Austin) Date: Fri, 18 Oct 19 14:33:06 +0000 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Harivamsha publication announcement In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hello Simon, I am so pleased to see this -- congratulations and thank you! Just in time for my course on Vishnu and Krishna next semester! I am also looking forward to reading about your issues with Vaidya. Best, Chris Dr. Christopher R. Austin Dalhousie University Associate Professor, Religious Studies (Dept. of Classics) Program Director and Undergraduate Advisor, Religious Studies Treasurer, Canadian Corporation for Studies in Religion christopher.austin at dal.ca ________________________________ From: Simon Brodbeck Sent: Friday, October 18, 2019 10:11 AM To: indology at list.indology.info ; +++RISA ACADEMIC DISCUSSION LIST+++ Subject: [RISA-L LIST] Harivamsha publication announcement Dear colleagues, I am happy to announce the following publication: Simon Brodbeck (trans.), Krishna's Lineage: the Harivamsha of Vy?sa's Mah?bh?rata, Translated from the Sanskrit. New York: Oxford University Press, 2019. Pp. xl + 420. Hardback ISBN 9780190279172; paperback ISBN 9780190279189. It is a complete translation of P. L. Vaidya's critically reconstituted version (Poona, 1969). There are further details on the publisher's website here: https://global.oup.com/academic/product/krishnas-lineage-9780190279189?lang=en&cc=gb# The translation and its introduction are aimed at the general reader, so I have also published an article which is essentially a companion piece intended for a scholarly audience, discussing in some depth the edition used, the emendations made, the translation strategies adopted, and a few of the trickier passages: Simon Brodbeck, "Translating Vaidya's Hariva??a", Asian Literature and Translation 6.1 (2019), pp. 1?187. Abstract and download of that paper are available here: https://alt.cardiffuniversitypress.org/articles/abstract/10.18573/alt.45/ With all best wishes, Simon Brodbeck Cardiff University -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Greg.Bailey at latrobe.edu.au Fri Oct 18 21:51:52 2019 From: Greg.Bailey at latrobe.edu.au (Greg Bailey) Date: Fri, 18 Oct 19 21:51:52 +0000 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Harivamsha publication announcement Message-ID: Well done, Simon. Cheers, Greg From: INDOLOGY > on behalf of Simon Brodbeck via INDOLOGY > Reply-To: Simon Brodbeck > Date: Saturday, 19 October 2019 at 12:11 am To: "indology at list.indology.info" >, +++RISA ACADEMIC DISCUSSION LIST+++ > Subject: [INDOLOGY] Harivamsha publication announcement Dear colleagues, I am happy to announce the following publication: Simon Brodbeck (trans.), Krishna's Lineage: the Harivamsha of Vy?sa's Mah?bh?rata, Translated from the Sanskrit. New York: Oxford University Press, 2019. Pp. xl + 420. Hardback ISBN 9780190279172; paperback ISBN 9780190279189. It is a complete translation of P. L. Vaidya's critically reconstituted version (Poona, 1969). There are further details on the publisher's website here: https://global.oup.com/academic/product/krishnas-lineage-9780190279189?lang=en&cc=gb# The translation and its introduction are aimed at the general reader, so I have also published an article which is essentially a companion piece intended for a scholarly audience, discussing in some depth the edition used, the emendations made, the translation strategies adopted, and a few of the trickier passages: Simon Brodbeck, "Translating Vaidya's Hariva??a", Asian Literature and Translation 6.1 (2019), pp. 1?187. Abstract and download of that paper are available here: https://alt.cardiffuniversitypress.org/articles/abstract/10.18573/alt.45/ With all best wishes, Simon Brodbeck Cardiff University -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mkapstei at uchicago.edu Sat Oct 19 08:29:27 2019 From: mkapstei at uchicago.edu (Matthew Kapstein) Date: Sat, 19 Oct 19 08:29:27 +0000 Subject: [INDOLOGY] seeking recommendations Message-ID: Dear friends, I would be most interested to know what you might recommend, for someone who seeks a clear synthesis from the perspective of historical linguistics, on the evolution of the IA languages, particularly MIA and early NIA. with thanks in advance, Matthew Matthew Kapstein Directeur d'?tudes, Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes Numata Visiting Professor of Buddhist Studies, The University of Chicago -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From walter.slaje at gmail.com Sat Oct 19 10:07:04 2019 From: walter.slaje at gmail.com (Walter Slaje) Date: Sat, 19 Oct 19 11:07:04 +0100 Subject: =?utf-8?Q?[INDOLOGY]_Bh=C4=81skaraka=E1=B9=87=E1=B9=ADha's_Nirv=C4=81=E1=B9=87a-=E1=B9=AC=C4=ABk=C4=81,_volume_2_[Publication_Announcement]?= Message-ID: Dear Colleagues, the second volume of Bh?skaraka??ha's Mok?op?ya-Nirv??a-??k? has appeared, edited by Bruno Lo Turco (Roma). "This volume completes the critical edition of the large extant fragment of the *Nirv??aprakara?a* ? the sixth section of the *Mok?op?ya* ? with the commentary *Nirv??a??k?* of Bh?skaraka??ha, one of the last great non-dualist ?aivite masters. The *Mok?op?ya*, a huge philosophico-soteriological work probably composed by a Kashmiri author in the tenth century of our era, was the original version of what would become the *Yogav?si??ha*, which enjoyed enormous popularity in India, in certain regions second only to the two great epic poems." https://uvhw.de/studia-indologica/product/190910_08-203-5.html For volume 1 and the remaining volumes in this series, see: https://uvhw.de/studia-indologica.html Kindly place your orders here: https://uvhw.de/warenkorb.html or by email: bestellung at uvhw.de peter.junkermann at uvhw.de Kind regards, WS -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mkapstei at uchicago.edu Sat Oct 19 15:38:04 2019 From: mkapstei at uchicago.edu (Matthew Kapstein) Date: Sat, 19 Oct 19 15:38:04 +0000 Subject: [INDOLOGY] query on historical linguistics Message-ID: Thanks to all who responded to my query. I received four recommendations of Vit Bubenik's two books: 1996. The Structure and Development of Middle Indo-Aryan Dialects. Delhi: Motilal Banarsidass. 1998. A Historical Syntax of Late Middle Indo-Aryan (Apabhram?s?a). Amsterdam and Philadelphia: John Benjamins. Additionally, one correspondent mentioned the 1965 English edition of Jules Bloch, Indo-Aryan from the Vedas to Modern Times. I note that this version, which was translated by Alfred Master, who was in correspondence with Bloch until the latter's death in 1953, is a substantial revision of the original 1934 French edition and takes account of Bloch's own corrections and notes. with best regards, Matthew Matthew Kapstein Directeur d'?tudes, Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes Numata Visiting Professor of Buddhist Studies, The University of Chicago -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From hspier.muktabodha at gmail.com Sun Oct 20 19:18:20 2019 From: hspier.muktabodha at gmail.com (Harry Spier) Date: Sun, 20 Oct 19 15:18:20 -0400 Subject: [INDOLOGY] query on historical linguistics In-Reply-To: Message-ID: In case it hasn't been mentioned The Indo-Aryan languages by Colin Masica Harry spier On Sat, Oct 19, 2019 at 11:38 AM Matthew Kapstein via INDOLOGY < indology at list.indology.info> wrote: > Thanks to all who responded to my query. I received four recommendations > of Vit Bubenik's two books: > > 1996. The Structure and Development of Middle Indo-Aryan Dialects. Delhi: > Motilal Banarsidass. > > 1998. A Historical Syntax of Late Middle Indo-Aryan (Apabhram?s?a). > Amsterdam and Philadelphia: John Benjamins. > > Additionally, one correspondent mentioned the 1965 English edition of > Jules Bloch, *Indo-Aryan from the Vedas to Modern Times*. I note that > this version, which was translated by Alfred Master, who was in > correspondence with Bloch until the latter's death in 1953, is a > substantial revision of the original 1934 French edition and takes account > of Bloch's own corrections and notes. > > with best regards, > Matthew > > Matthew Kapstein > Directeur d'?tudes, > Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes > > Numata Visiting Professor of Buddhist Studies, > The University of Chicago > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing > committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or > unsubscribe) > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From hspier.muktabodha at gmail.com Sun Oct 20 20:13:26 2019 From: hspier.muktabodha at gmail.com (Harry Spier) Date: Sun, 20 Oct 19 16:13:26 -0400 Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_[INDOLOGY]_Fwd:_sa=C3=B1j_sajjate?= In-Reply-To: <7ADFEE60-C1C6-46E3-B355-20998890C83F@uclouvain.be> Message-ID: Dear Christophe You wrote: > So jy > jj can be diachronically explained by the " 'MIA' assimilation of > the cluster -jy-" according to Oberlies; nevertheless, other historical > explanations are possible . . . > Another historical explanation is given by this very old source: Brugmann: Elements of the Comparative Grammar of the Indo-Germanic Languages (translation by Wright) . He suggests sajjate is from Indo-Iranian *sa-zj-a- (pages 448-449) Note:his abbreviation Ar. = Indo-Iranian. Prim. Ar. azg = Skt. adg Av. azg,. . . But Prim. Ar. *azj* passed through *adj* into *aj*j in Skr. (cp. *ujjiti-?* 'victory from **ud-jiti-? *section 355). *majj?m*i 'I duck' *majjan-* 'marrow' from the same root *mezg-. sajjate* 'clings to something' from* *sa-zj-a-* redupl. (cp. *sa-sc-a-ti* 'follows' from *sac*'): cp. Lith. *segu* 'I fasten'. Harry Spier -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mkapstei at uchicago.edu Sun Oct 20 21:44:17 2019 From: mkapstei at uchicago.edu (Matthew Kapstein) Date: Sun, 20 Oct 19 21:44:17 +0000 Subject: [INDOLOGY] query on historical linguistics In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Thank you, Harry, but Masica's excellent book is very much focused on NIA and not on the questions of historical linguistics that were the concern of my query (except sketchily in one of the introductory chapters). best, Matthew Matthew Kapstein Directeur d'?tudes, Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes Numata Visiting Professor of Buddhist Studies, The University of Chicago ________________________________ From: Harry Spier Sent: Sunday, October 20, 2019 2:18 PM To: Matthew Kapstein Cc: indology at list.indology.info Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] query on historical linguistics In case it hasn't been mentioned The Indo-Aryan languages by Colin Masica Harry spier On Sat, Oct 19, 2019 at 11:38 AM Matthew Kapstein via INDOLOGY > wrote: Thanks to all who responded to my query. I received four recommendations of Vit Bubenik's two books: 1996. The Structure and Development of Middle Indo-Aryan Dialects. Delhi: Motilal Banarsidass. 1998. A Historical Syntax of Late Middle Indo-Aryan (Apabhram?s?a). Amsterdam and Philadelphia: John Benjamins. Additionally, one correspondent mentioned the 1965 English edition of Jules Bloch, Indo-Aryan from the Vedas to Modern Times. I note that this version, which was translated by Alfred Master, who was in correspondence with Bloch until the latter's death in 1953, is a substantial revision of the original 1934 French edition and takes account of Bloch's own corrections and notes. with best regards, Matthew Matthew Kapstein Directeur d'?tudes, Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes Numata Visiting Professor of Buddhist Studies, The University of Chicago _______________________________________________ INDOLOGY mailing list INDOLOGY at list.indology.info indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From frank.koehler at uni-tuebingen.de Mon Oct 21 07:25:07 2019 From: frank.koehler at uni-tuebingen.de (Frank Koehler) Date: Mon, 21 Oct 19 09:25:07 +0200 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Gisela Bonn-Award Message-ID: <20191021092507.Horde.h8ehbn9i1eO3fBlgFE2_pee@webmail.uni-tuebingen.de> Dear colleagues, I am happy to inform you that Prof. Heike Oberlin from the Dept. of Indology of the Institute of Asian and Oriental Studies at the University of T?bingen will be awarded this year's Gisela Bonn-Award. Below is an excerpt from the announcement of the German-Indian Society: The Indian Council of Cultural Relations donated this prize in 1996 in recognition of Professor Dr. Gisela Bonn, the great connoisseur of India and promoter of Indo-German relations. The chairman of the German-Indian Society e.V. is responsible for chairing the selection jury in accordance with the statutes of the prize. The Gisela Bonn Prize is awarded annually for special achievements in the field of Indo-German relations. It is primarily intended to honour the work of young scientists and journalists. The prize is not tied to any particular topic and covers the political, economic and cultural aspects of the relations between the two countries. By financing a two-week trip to India, the prize-winner will be given the opportunity to continue and deepen her previous studies. If desired, the Indian Council of Cultural Relations will establish and organize contacts to local governmental or research institutions. The planning and organization of the trip will primarily depend on the wishes of the award winner. The award ceremony will take place on October 26th in Halle at 12.00 pm at the Francke Foundations as part of the Indientage 2019; in India, an analogue event is scheduled to take place in New Delhi at Jawaharlal Nehru University (JNU), presumably on December 9. More information can be found under the following link: https://www.dig-ev.de/gisela-bonn-preis/ Kind regards, Frank K?hler Dr. Frank K?hler Eberhard-Karls-Universit?t T?bingen Asien-Orient-Institut Abteilung f?r Indologie und Vergleichende Religionswissenschaft Keplerstr. 2 72074 T?bingen Tel: 07071/2978536 Email: frank.koehler at uni-tuebingen.de -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From birendra176 at yahoo.com Mon Oct 21 11:31:18 2019 From: birendra176 at yahoo.com (Birendra Nath Prasad) Date: Mon, 21 Oct 19 11:31:18 +0000 Subject: =?utf-8?Q?[INDOLOGY]_publication_of_my_paper_titled_=E2=80=9CEvolution_of_the_Patterns_of_Cultic_Encounters_between_Buddhism_and_Brahmanism_in_the_Religious_Space_of_Some_Excavated_Buddhist_Religious_Centres_of_Early_Medieval_Bihar_and_Bengal:_A_Study_Based_on_an_Analysis_of_the_Published_Archaeological_Data=E2=80=99?= Message-ID: <2078039931.5826565.1571657478290@mail.yahoo.com> Respected Colleagues I am happy to share the news of the publication of my paper titled ?Evolution of the Patterns of Cultic Encounters between Buddhism and Brahmanism in the Religious Space of Some Excavated Buddhist Religious Centres of Early Medieval Bihar and Bengal: A Study Based on an Analysis of the Published Archaeological Data?, in Religions of South Asia, London, Vol. 12, no.3, 2018, pp. 1-37?. This SCOPUS-indexed internationally peer-reviewed journal is edited by Prof. Simon Brodbeck, University of Cardiff. Fore more information, you may see https://journals.equinoxpub.com/ROSA/article/view/38544 With regards Dr. Birendra Nath Prasad Assistant Professor Centre for Historical Studies Jawaharlal Nehru University New Delhi-110067 https://jnu.ac.in/content/bnprasad http://www.jnu.ac.in/Faculty/bnprasad/cv.pdf Email: bnprasad at mail.jnu.ac.in bp2629 at gmail.com From vajpeyi at csds.in Mon Oct 21 16:14:14 2019 From: vajpeyi at csds.in (Ananya Vajpeyi) Date: Mon, 21 Oct 19 12:14:14 -0400 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Sad news Message-ID: Professor Allison Busch, of Columbia University, passed away on October 19, 2019 after a long illness. It seemed appropriate to inform members of this list, as many of us would have known Allison personally and / or through her important work on Hindi literature of the early modern period: https://mesaas.columbia.edu/faculty-directory/allison-busch/ Regards, Ananya Vajpeyi. -- *Ananya Vajpeyi, Ph.D.* *Visiting Fellow, CRASSH-Cambridge University, 2019-20 * *http://www.crassh.cam.ac.uk/people/profile/ananya-vajpeyi* *Fellow and Associate Professor* *Centre for the Study of Developing Societies* *New Delhi* *EMAIL: vajpeyi at csds.in * *http://www.csds.in/faculty_ananya_vajpeyi.htm* -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From smith.caley at gmail.com Mon Oct 21 16:28:10 2019 From: smith.caley at gmail.com (Caley Smith) Date: Mon, 21 Oct 19 12:28:10 -0400 Subject: [INDOLOGY] INDOLOGY Digest, Vol 81, Issue 19 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Dear Matthew, There is a chapter in the recent *Handbook of Comparative and Historical Indo-European Linguistics* vol 1, p447-470 ( https://www.degruyter.com/view/product/20756) by Thomas Oberlies called "The Evolution of Indic" which might be useful to you (at the very least the bibliography will be quite up to date since this volume came out in 2017). Best, Caley On Sat, Oct 19, 2019 at 12:00 PM wrote: > Send INDOLOGY mailing list submissions to > indology at list.indology.info > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > > http://list.indology.info/mailman/listinfo/indology_list.indology.info > > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > indology-request at list.indology.info > > You can reach the person managing the list at > indology-owner at list.indology.info > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of INDOLOGY digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: Harivamsha publication announcement (Greg Bailey) > 2. seeking recommendations (Matthew Kapstein) > 3. Bh?skaraka??ha's Nirv??a-??k?, volume 2 [Publication > Announcement] (Walter Slaje) > 4. query on historical linguistics (Matthew Kapstein) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Fri, 18 Oct 2019 21:51:52 +0000 > From: Greg Bailey > To: Simon Brodbeck , > "indology at list.indology.info" , > +++RISA > ACADEMIC DISCUSSION LIST+++ > Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] Harivamsha publication announcement > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > Well done, Simon. > > Cheers, > > Greg > > From: INDOLOGY indology-bounces at list.indology.info>> on behalf of Simon Brodbeck via > INDOLOGY > > Reply-To: Simon Brodbeck BrodbeckSP at cardiff.ac.uk>> > Date: Saturday, 19 October 2019 at 12:11 am > To: "indology at list.indology.info" < > indology at list.indology.info>, +++RISA > ACADEMIC DISCUSSION LIST+++ risa-l at lists.sandiego.edu>> > Subject: [INDOLOGY] Harivamsha publication announcement > > Dear colleagues, > > I am happy to announce the following publication: > > Simon Brodbeck (trans.), Krishna's Lineage: the Harivamsha of Vy?sa's > Mah?bh?rata, Translated from the Sanskrit. New York: Oxford University > Press, 2019. Pp. xl + 420. Hardback ISBN 9780190279172; paperback ISBN > 9780190279189. > > It is a complete translation of P. L. Vaidya's critically reconstituted > version (Poona, 1969). > There are further details on the publisher's website here: > > https://global.oup.com/academic/product/krishnas-lineage-9780190279189?lang=en&cc=gb# > < > https://global.oup.com/academic/product/krishnas-lineage-9780190279189?lang=en&cc=gb > > > > The translation and its introduction are aimed at the general reader, so I > have also published an article which is essentially a companion piece > intended for a scholarly audience, discussing in some depth the edition > used, the emendations made, the translation strategies adopted, and a few > of the trickier passages: > > Simon Brodbeck, "Translating Vaidya's Hariva??a", Asian Literature and > Translation 6.1 (2019), pp. 1?187. > > Abstract and download of that paper are available here: > https://alt.cardiffuniversitypress.org/articles/abstract/10.18573/alt.45/< > https://alt.cardiffuniversitypress.org/articles/abstract/10.18573/alt.45/> > > With all best wishes, > Simon Brodbeck > Cardiff University > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mmdesh at umich.edu Mon Oct 21 17:17:24 2019 From: mmdesh at umich.edu (Madhav Deshpande) Date: Mon, 21 Oct 19 10:17:24 -0700 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Professor Mohan Dhadphale passed away Message-ID: Just received this from the Bhandarkar Institute: Renowned scholar and former Honorary Secretary of the Bhandarkar Oriental Research Institute Prof. Dr. M.G. Dhadphale passed away owing to old age on Friday, October 18, 2019. A condolence meeting will be held in the Tata Hall of the Institute on Tuesday, October 22, 2019 at 5.00 p.m. Madhav M. Deshpande Professor Emeritus, Sanskrit and Linguistics University of Michigan, Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA Senior Fellow, Oxford Center for Hindu Studies [Residence: Campbell, California, USA] -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From wujastyk at gmail.com Mon Oct 21 18:53:54 2019 From: wujastyk at gmail.com (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Mon, 21 Oct 19 12:53:54 -0600 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Sad news In-Reply-To: Message-ID: This is very sad news indeed. Allison was a unique scholar, making research contributions in the critically important area of post-14th century South Asian studies. Some of her many writings are available at academia.edu page . And her archive page at Columbia. I was surprised and delighted a couple of years ago when I learned that Allison grew up in Edmonton, Canada, where I now live. My thoughts are with her family, friends and students. Dominik -- Professor Dominik Wujastyk , Singhmar Chair in Classical Indian Society and Polity , Department of History and Classics , University of Alberta, Canada . South Asia at the U of A: sas.ualberta.ca On Mon, 21 Oct 2019 at 10:15, Ananya Vajpeyi via INDOLOGY < indology at list.indology.info> wrote: > > Professor Allison Busch, of Columbia University, passed away on October > 19, 2019 after a long illness. It seemed appropriate to inform members of > this list, as many of us would have known Allison personally and / or > through her important work on Hindi literature of the early modern period: > > https://mesaas.columbia.edu/faculty-directory/allison-busch/ > > Regards, > > Ananya Vajpeyi. > > -- > > *Ananya Vajpeyi, Ph.D.* > *Visiting Fellow, CRASSH-Cambridge University, 2019-20 * > *http://www.crassh.cam.ac.uk/people/profile/ananya-vajpeyi* > > > *Fellow and Associate Professor* > *Centre for the Study of Developing Societies* > > *New Delhi* > *EMAIL: vajpeyi at csds.in * > *http://www.csds.in/faculty_ananya_vajpeyi.htm* > > > > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing > committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or > unsubscribe) > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From McComas.Taylor at anu.edu.au Tue Oct 22 02:33:24 2019 From: McComas.Taylor at anu.edu.au (McComas Taylor) Date: Tue, 22 Oct 19 02:33:24 +0000 Subject: [INDOLOGY] 'Gender and Sanskrit Studies' in Sanskrit Message-ID: Dear Colleagues The program (forthcoming) for the 2021 World Sanskrit Conference will include a new section, 'Gender and Sanskrit Studies'. We would welcome any suggestions as to how this title might be elegantly translated into in Sanskrit itself. Thanks in advance McComas [cid:cf4696e8-7166-4167-a5ac-a8dabc688b15] McComas Taylor Associate Professor Reader in Sanskrit College of Asia and the Pacific The Australian National University WSC Website| McC Website Tel: +61 2 6125 3179 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From wujastyk at gmail.com Tue Oct 22 06:59:15 2019 From: wujastyk at gmail.com (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Tue, 22 Oct 19 00:59:15 -0600 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Norbert Preining on typesetting Tibetan Message-ID: https://www.preining.info/blog/2019/10/pleasures-of-tibetan-input-and-typesetting-with-tex/ Sent from Android phone -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From drdhaval2785 at gmail.com Tue Oct 22 09:22:39 2019 From: drdhaval2785 at gmail.com (Dhaval Patel) Date: Tue, 22 Oct 19 14:52:39 +0530 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Krishna as Poetry Message-ID: Namaste Mr. Susheel K. Mittal, With reference to your letter dated 25 September 2019, I hereby acknowledge the receipt of the abovementioned book sent by you. Thank you very much for the same. With best wishes, Dr. Dhaval Patel -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ayeletkotler at uchicago.edu Tue Oct 22 13:16:33 2019 From: ayeletkotler at uchicago.edu (Ayelet Kotler) Date: Tue, 22 Oct 19 08:16:33 -0500 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Call for Papers: South Asia Graduate Student Conference @UChicago Message-ID: The 17th Annual South Asia Graduate Student Conference at the University of Chicago is pleased to invite submissions to the 2020 graduate student conference *Reception, Tradition, and Canonization: Pasts and Presents in South Asia* to be held on *March 5th-6th*, *2020* in Chicago. We invite graduate students at all levels to submit abstracts for consideration. The call for papers is attached below and linked here , and the online submission form can be found via this link . We would appreciate it if you would forward this email to students in your department and colleagues who may be interested. SAGSC XVII Organizing Committee -- Ayelet Kotler, PhD Student South Asian Languages and Civilizations University of Chicago -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: CallforPapers.pdf Type: application/pdf Size: 138201 bytes Desc: not available URL: From beitel at email.gwu.edu Tue Oct 22 21:10:34 2019 From: beitel at email.gwu.edu (Alfred Hiltebeitel) Date: Tue, 22 Oct 19 16:10:34 -0500 Subject: [INDOLOGY] (no subject) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Dear Colleagues, I am writing about Catholic and Protestant responses to Hindu sacrifice in the colonial period. Could anyone supply me withe Will Sweetman?s book, Reading Jesuits Reading Hinduism, and his book on Hinduism in the colonial period? I am also trying to recall a book I think by someone with the surname Ward which I recall as a pertinent diatribe agains Hindu sacrifices. Does anyone know it? For comparative purpose I am also interested to know of studies of Jain and Buddhist funerary practices in the colonial period. Please excuse the fishing trip sound of these requests. Anything about colonial period responses to Hindu polytheism generally would be most appreciated. Best regards, Alf Sent from my iPad > On Sep 12, 2019, at 4:50 PM, Alfred Hiltebeitel wrote: > > ? > Dear colleagues, > > There are two works I need. Is it possible that one or more of you could supply me with either of them? > > Daniel H. H. Ingalls, ?Words for Beauty in Classical Sanskrit Poetry,? in Studies in Honor of W. Norman Brown, 87-107, New Haven: American Oriental Society. > > And, > > Eveline Meyer, ?the Greatness of Ankalaparamecuvari, told through the story of how Paramacivan plucked the head of Piramma in the play called the destruction of Turuvacar,? in: Lothar Lutze, Ed. Drama in Contemporary South Asia: Variations and Settings, South Asian Digest of Regional Writing, vol. 10 (1981), Heidelberg (sorry but my. Source does not list the pages) > > Many thanks, > > Alf Hiltebeitel > > Sent from my iPad From beitel at email.gwu.edu Tue Oct 22 21:13:38 2019 From: beitel at email.gwu.edu (Alfred Hiltebeitel) Date: Tue, 22 Oct 19 16:13:38 -0500 Subject: [INDOLOGY] (no subject) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <57A525A1-AC4B-4C91-8E6E-EE74DE12A36E@email.gwu.edu> Sent from my iPad > On Oct 22, 2019, at 4:10 PM, Alfred Hiltebeitel wrote: > > ? > Dear Colleagues, > > I am writing about Catholic and Protestant responses to Hindu sacrifice in the colonial period. > > Could anyone supply me withe Will Sweetman?s book, Reading Jesuits Reading Hinduism, and his book on Hinduism in the colonial period? > > I am also trying to recall a book I think by someone with the surname Ward which I recall as a pertinent diatribe agains Hindu sacrifices. Does anyone know it? > > For comparative purpose I am also interested to know of studies of Jain and Buddhist funerary practices in the colonial period. > > Please excuse the fishing trip sound of these requests. Anything about colonial period responses to Hindu polytheism generally would be most appreciated. > > Best regards, > Alf > Sent from my iPad > >> On Sep 12, 2019, at 4:50 PM, Alfred Hiltebeitel wrote: >> >> ? >> Dear colleagues, >> >> There are two works I need. Is it possible that one or more of you could supply me with either of them? >> >> Daniel H. H. Ingalls, ?Words for Beauty in Classical Sanskrit Poetry,? in Studies in Honor of W. Norman Brown, 87-107, New Haven: American Oriental Society. >> >> And, >> >> Eveline Meyer, ?the Greatness of Ankalaparamecuvari, told through the story of how Paramacivan plucked the head of Piramma in the play called the destruction of Turuvacar,? in: Lothar Lutze, Ed. Drama in Contemporary South Asia: Variations and Settings, South Asian Digest of Regional Writing, vol. 10 (1981), Heidelberg (sorry but my. Source does not list the pages) >> >> Many thanks, >> >> Alf Hiltebeitel >> >> Sent from my iPad > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) From gthomgt at gmail.com Tue Oct 22 21:25:52 2019 From: gthomgt at gmail.com (George Thompson) Date: Tue, 22 Oct 19 17:25:52 -0400 Subject: [INDOLOGY] (no subject) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Dear Alf, I have at hand the volume that includes the Ingalls article. If you don't get a scan of it in the next day or two, let me know, and I will photocopy the essay and send you a copy. Best wishes, George On Thu, Sep 12, 2019 at 5:50 PM Alfred Hiltebeitel via INDOLOGY < indology at list.indology.info> wrote: > > Dear colleagues, > > There are two works I need. Is it possible that one or more of you could > supply me with either of them? > > Daniel H. H. Ingalls, ?Words for Beauty in Classical Sanskrit Poetry,? in > Studies in Honor of W. Norman Brown, 87-107, New Haven: American Oriental > Society. > > And, > > Eveline Meyer, ?the Greatness of Ankalaparamecuvari, told through the > story of how Paramacivan plucked the head of Piramma in the play called the > destruction of Turuvacar,? in: Lothar Lutze, Ed. Drama in Contemporary > South Asia: Variations and Settings, South Asian Digest of Regional > Writing, vol. 10 (1981), Heidelberg (sorry but my. Source does not list the > pages) > > Many thanks, > > Alf Hiltebeitel > > Sent from my iPad > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing > committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or > unsubscribe) > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rrocher at sas.upenn.edu Tue Oct 22 21:29:30 2019 From: rrocher at sas.upenn.edu (Rocher, Rosane D) Date: Tue, 22 Oct 19 21:29:30 +0000 Subject: [INDOLOGY] (no subject) In-Reply-To: <57A525A1-AC4B-4C91-8E6E-EE74DE12A36E@email.gwu.edu> Message-ID: Dear Alf, You are probably thinking of William Ward's A View of the History, Literature and Religion of the Hindoos, Serampore: [Mission Press], several editions from 1817 on, with slight variations in title. Consistently derogatory comments on Hindu matters. Much quoted in his times. Rosane On 10/22/19 5:13 PM, Alfred Hiltebeitel via INDOLOGY wrote: Sent from my iPad On Oct 22, 2019, at 4:10 PM, Alfred Hiltebeitel wrote: ? Dear Colleagues, I am writing about Catholic and Protestant responses to Hindu sacrifice in the colonial period. Could anyone supply me withe Will Sweetman?s book, Reading Jesuits Reading Hinduism, and his book on Hinduism in the colonial period? I am also trying to recall a book I think by someone with the surname Ward which I recall as a pertinent diatribe agains Hindu sacrifices. Does anyone know it? For comparative purpose I am also interested to know of studies of Jain and Buddhist funerary practices in the colonial period. Please excuse the fishing trip sound of these requests. Anything about colonial period responses to Hindu polytheism generally would be most appreciated. Best regards, Alf Sent from my iPad On Sep 12, 2019, at 4:50 PM, Alfred Hiltebeitel wrote: ? Dear colleagues, There are two works I need. Is it possible that one or more of you could supply me with either of them? Daniel H. H. Ingalls, ?Words for Beauty in Classical Sanskrit Poetry,? in Studies in Honor of W. Norman Brown, 87-107, New Haven: American Oriental Society. And, Eveline Meyer, ?the Greatness of Ankalaparamecuvari, told through the story of how Paramacivan plucked the head of Piramma in the play called the destruction of Turuvacar,? in: Lothar Lutze, Ed. Drama in Contemporary South Asia: Variations and Settings, South Asian Digest of Regional Writing, vol. 10 (1981), Heidelberg (sorry but my. Source does not list the pages) Many thanks, Alf Hiltebeitel Sent from my iPad _______________________________________________ INDOLOGY mailing list INDOLOGY at list.indology.info indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) _______________________________________________ INDOLOGY mailing list INDOLOGY at list.indology.info indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From will.sweetman at gmail.com Tue Oct 22 22:22:46 2019 From: will.sweetman at gmail.com (Will Sweetman) Date: Wed, 23 Oct 19 11:22:46 +1300 Subject: [INDOLOGY] (no subject) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <16c7181e-b140-0975-e4ab-177691097470@gmail.com> Dear Alf My 2003 book is available for download on Cross-Asia (with many others) http://crossasia-books.ub.uni-heidelberg.de/xasia/catalog/series/nhb The book covers missionary readings of Hinduism in the period ending with the establishment of the Asiatic Society of Bengal and the appearance of other works by EIC scholar-administrators. On Ward and others in his period Geoff Oddie's book, Imagined Hinduism (Sage 2006) is good. Sharada Sugirtharajah has a chapter on Ward in the similarly titled Imagining Hinduism (Routledge 2003) which was also published as an article (Sugirtharajah, Sharada. ?Virtuous Christians, Vicious Hindus: A Postcolonial Look at William Ward and his Hinduism.? Studies in World Christianity 5, no. 2 (1999): 196?212). Sugirtharajah uses only Ward's published sources - Oddie by contrast has used Ward's diaries which, he says, shows the extent to which he relied on the pundits the mission employed (thirty in 1819). He also suggests that, for all its size (1400 pages), Ward's book uses only a fraction of the material on Hinduism in his diaries, so there's a whole project waiting there for someone. My article (not book!) on the historiography of Jesuits is due to appear any day (as an open access article) on Jesuit Historiography online https://referenceworks.brillonline.com/browse/jesuit-historiography-online I'll send you a proof copy separately (I think Indology strips attachments). Another article of mine is due to appear in the last issue of the JAOS for this year. I mention this because it includes a brief discussion of a very interesting 1719 Jesuit letter which offers what I think must be the most detailed account of a Vedic sacrifice by a European author to that point. (The article is a study of European responses to the Vedas, for which I asked for help on this list a couple of years ago - so it may be of interest to some others on the list too). There's an uncorrected proof on my academia page (https://otago.academia.edu/WillSweetman) The best work on early European account of the Jains is by Leslie Orr. One article has appeared (?Orientalists, Missionaries, and Jains: the South Indian Story.? In The Madras School of Orientalism: Producing Knowledge in Colonial South India, edited by Thomas R. Trautmann, 265?287. New Delhi: Oxford University Press, 2009) another ("European Imaginings of Jainism in Colonial Madras: Tales of the Coromandel Coast") is forthcoming (I think). A conference paper by Robert Del Bonta?, ?From Herodotus Onwards: Descriptions of Unidentified Jainas? has been announced as appearing in a volume entitled Jaina Law and Society edited by Peter Fl?gel, but this volume seems to be indefinitely delayed (maybe Peter can comment?) Best wishes Will Alfred Hiltebeitel via INDOLOGY wrote on 23/10/19 10:10 AM: > Dear Colleagues, > > I am writing about Catholic and Protestant responses to Hindu sacrifice in the colonial period. > > Could anyone supply me withe Will Sweetman?s book, Reading Jesuits Reading Hinduism, and his book on Hinduism in the colonial period? > > I am also trying to recall a book I think by someone with the surname Ward which I recall as a pertinent diatribe agains Hindu sacrifices. Does anyone know it? > > For comparative purpose I am also interested to know of studies of Jain and Buddhist funerary practices in the colonial period. > > Please excuse the fishing trip sound of these requests. Anything about colonial period responses to Hindu polytheism generally would be most appreciated. > > Best regards, > Alf > Sent from my iPad > >> On Sep 12, 2019, at 4:50 PM, Alfred Hiltebeitel wrote: >> >> ? >> Dear colleagues, >> >> There are two works I need. Is it possible that one or more of you could supply me with either of them? >> >> Daniel H. H. Ingalls, ?Words for Beauty in Classical Sanskrit Poetry,? in Studies in Honor of W. Norman Brown, 87-107, New Haven: American Oriental Society. >> >> And, >> >> Eveline Meyer, ?the Greatness of Ankalaparamecuvari, told through the story of how Paramacivan plucked the head of Piramma in the play called the destruction of Turuvacar,? in: Lothar Lutze, Ed. Drama in Contemporary South Asia: Variations and Settings, South Asian Digest of Regional Writing, vol. 10 (1981), Heidelberg (sorry but my. Source does not list the pages) >> >> Many thanks, >> >> Alf Hiltebeitel >> >> Sent from my iPad > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tatiana.oranskaia at uni-hamburg.de Tue Oct 22 22:40:21 2019 From: tatiana.oranskaia at uni-hamburg.de (tatiana.oranskaia) Date: Wed, 23 Oct 19 00:40:21 +0200 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Sad news In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20191023004021.Horde.BPU2hc-xdNCqU193A1gTZJl@webmail.rrz.uni-hamburg.de> An awful news. Allison, a vigorous person with a fine sense of humour, kind heart and open soul is not any longer with us. Allison, an outstanding scholar, amazingly sensitive to intratextual connections in complicated early Indo-Aryan/Braj texts and their relationship to the historical and cultural context, passed away at a painfully young age. Her family, close friends and students will know that many people in many countries love her and mourn for her together with them. We can only wish limitless strength to those to whom the loss is unbearable. Tatiana Zitat von Dominik Wujastyk via INDOLOGY : > This is very sad news indeed. Allison was a unique scholar, making > research contributions in the critically important area of post-14th > century South Asian studies. Some of her many writings are available > at academia.edu > page . And her archive page > at Columbia. > > I was surprised and delighted a couple of years ago when I learned that > Allison grew up in Edmonton, Canada, where I now live. > > My thoughts are with her family, friends and students. > > Dominik > > -- > Professor Dominik Wujastyk > , > > Singhmar Chair in Classical Indian Society and Polity > , > > Department of History and Classics > , > University of Alberta, Canada > . > > South Asia at the U of A: > > sas.ualberta.ca > > > > On Mon, 21 Oct 2019 at 10:15, Ananya Vajpeyi via INDOLOGY < > indology at list.indology.info> wrote: > >> >> Professor Allison Busch, of Columbia University, passed away on October >> 19, 2019 after a long illness. It seemed appropriate to inform members of >> this list, as many of us would have known Allison personally and / or >> through her important work on Hindi literature of the early modern period: >> >> https://mesaas.columbia.edu/faculty-directory/allison-busch/ >> >> Regards, >> >> Ananya Vajpeyi. >> >> -- >> >> *Ananya Vajpeyi, Ph.D.* >> *Visiting Fellow, CRASSH-Cambridge University, 2019-20 * >> *http://www.crassh.cam.ac.uk/people/profile/ananya-vajpeyi* >> >> >> *Fellow and Associate Professor* >> *Centre for the Study of Developing Societies* >> >> *New Delhi* >> *EMAIL: vajpeyi at csds.in * >> *http://www.csds.in/faculty_ananya_vajpeyi.htm* >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> INDOLOGY mailing list >> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info >> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing >> committee) >> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or >> unsubscribe) >> -- Prof. Dr. Tatiana Oranskaia Abteilung f?r Kultur und Geschichte Indiens und Tibets Asien-Afrika-Institut Universit?t Hamburg Alsterterrasse 1, 1. OG re. 20354 Hamburg Tel.: 040 428 38 3385 (GZ) Fax: 040 42838 6944 tatiana.oranskaia at uni-hamburg.de From beitel at email.gwu.edu Tue Oct 22 23:40:23 2019 From: beitel at email.gwu.edu (Alfred Hiltebeitel) Date: Tue, 22 Oct 19 18:40:23 -0500 Subject: [INDOLOGY] (no subject) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <4642F230-3D7D-49B3-83B0-69F71F68D2E2@email.gwu.edu> George, Thanks, but I do have the Ingalls piece. That was from an earlier request that I should have erased. Sent from my iPad > On Oct 22, 2019, at 4:26 PM, George Thompson wrote: > > ? > Dear Alf, > > I have at hand the volume that includes the Ingalls article. If you don't get a scan of it in the next day or two, let me know, and I will photocopy the essay and send you a copy. > > Best wishes, > > George > > > >> On Thu, Sep 12, 2019 at 5:50 PM Alfred Hiltebeitel via INDOLOGY wrote: >> >> Dear colleagues, >> >> There are two works I need. Is it possible that one or more of you could supply me with either of them? >> >> Daniel H. H. Ingalls, ?Words for Beauty in Classical Sanskrit Poetry,? in Studies in Honor of W. Norman Brown, 87-107, New Haven: American Oriental Society. >> >> And, >> >> Eveline Meyer, ?the Greatness of Ankalaparamecuvari, told through the story of how Paramacivan plucked the head of Piramma in the play called the destruction of Turuvacar,? in: Lothar Lutze, Ed. Drama in Contemporary South Asia: Variations and Settings, South Asian Digest of Regional Writing, vol. 10 (1981), Heidelberg (sorry but my. Source does not list the pages) >> >> Many thanks, >> >> Alf Hiltebeitel >> >> Sent from my iPad >> _______________________________________________ >> INDOLOGY mailing list >> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info >> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) >> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rrocher at sas.upenn.edu Wed Oct 23 00:29:31 2019 From: rrocher at sas.upenn.edu (Rocher, Rosane D) Date: Wed, 23 Oct 19 00:29:31 +0000 Subject: [INDOLOGY] (no subject) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Dear Alf, Glad to be of help. There are several editions digitized by Hathi Trust. I can't wish you to enjoy them. They are depressingly bigoted. All the best, Rosane On 10/22/19 7:38 PM, Alfred Hiltebeitel wrote: Dear Rosane, That is certainly it. Thanks much. Now I have to see how available it is. Sent from my iPad On Oct 22, 2019, at 4:25 PM, Rocher, Rosane D wrote: ? Dear Alf, You are probably thinking of William Ward's A View of the History, Literature and Religion of the Hindoos, Serampore: [Mission Press], several editions from 1817 on, with slight variations in title. Consistently derogatory comments on Hindu matters. Much quoted in his times. Rosane On 10/22/19 5:10 PM, Alfred Hiltebeitel via INDOLOGY wrote: Dear Colleagues, I am writing about Catholic and Protestant responses to Hindu sacrifice in the colonial period. Could anyone supply me withe Will Sweetman?s book, Reading Jesuits Reading Hinduism, and his book on Hinduism in the colonial period? I am also trying to recall a book I think by someone with the surname Ward which I recall as a pertinent diatribe agains Hindu sacrifices. Does anyone know it? For comparative purpose I am also interested to know of studies of Jain and Buddhist funerary practices in the colonial period. Please excuse the fishing trip sound of these requests. Anything about colonial period responses to Hindu polytheism generally would be most appreciated. Best regards, Alf Sent from my iPad On Sep 12, 2019, at 4:50 PM, Alfred Hiltebeitel wrote: ? Dear colleagues, There are two works I need. Is it possible that one or more of you could supply me with either of them? Daniel H. H. Ingalls, ?Words for Beauty in Classical Sanskrit Poetry,? in Studies in Honor of W. Norman Brown, 87-107, New Haven: American Oriental Society. And, Eveline Meyer, ?the Greatness of Ankalaparamecuvari, told through the story of how Paramacivan plucked the head of Piramma in the play called the destruction of Turuvacar,? in: Lothar Lutze, Ed. Drama in Contemporary South Asia: Variations and Settings, South Asian Digest of Regional Writing, vol. 10 (1981), Heidelberg (sorry but my. Source does not list the pages) Many thanks, Alf Hiltebeitel Sent from my iPad _______________________________________________ INDOLOGY mailing list INDOLOGY at list.indology.info indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From beitel at email.gwu.edu Wed Oct 23 03:38:42 2019 From: beitel at email.gwu.edu (Alfred Hiltebeitel) Date: Tue, 22 Oct 19 22:38:42 -0500 Subject: [INDOLOGY] (no subject) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <0DEC8D05-9896-4118-BB43-9D680755572C@email.gwu.edu> Sent from my iPad > On Oct 22, 2019, at 10:35 PM, Alfred Hiltebeitel > ?Ps. The example I am using of Hindu sacrifice is that of south. Indian kulateyvam (kuladeva) cults. What I need here is Louis Dumont?s study of the Pramalai Kallar. Would anyone have in English or French on a pdf? Also, I am looking for a pdf of William Ward?s 1827 A View of the History, Literature, and Religion of the Hindoos (serampore: Mission press)? thanks toRosane Rocher. For the title). Any edition on pdf wooulld. Be great... >> >> Sent from my iPad >> >>>> On Oct 22, 2019, at 4:14 PM, Alfred Hiltebeitel wrote: >>> >>> ? >>> >>> Sent from my iPad >>> >>>>> On Oct 22, 2019, at 4:10 PM, Alfred Hiltebeitel wrote: >>>> >>>> ? >>>> Dear Colleagues, >>>> >>>> I am writing about Catholic and Protestant responses to Hindu sacrifice in the colonial period. >>>> >>>> Could anyone supply me withe Will Sweetman?s book, Reading Jesuits Reading Hinduism, and his book on Hinduism in the colonial period? >>>> >>>> I am also trying to recall a book I think by someone with the surname Ward which I recall as a pertinent diatribe agains Hindu sacrifices. Does anyone know it? >>>> >>>> For comparative purpose I am also interested to know of studies of Jain and Buddhist funerary practices in the colonial period. >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> INDOLOGY mailing list >>>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info >>>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) >>>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) From mmdesh at umich.edu Wed Oct 23 14:06:18 2019 From: mmdesh at umich.edu (Madhav Deshpande) Date: Wed, 23 Oct 19 07:06:18 -0700 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Question: anokaha Message-ID: Dear Colleagues, In K?lid?sa's Raghuva??a 2.13, the word *anokaha* is used in the sense of a tree. Mallin?tha simply paraphrases *anokaha *with *vr?k?a*. Has anyone seen an explanation of this word as to its constituents and etymology? Best regards, Madhav M. Deshpande Professor Emeritus, Sanskrit and Linguistics University of Michigan, Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA Senior Fellow, Oxford Center for Hindu Studies [Residence: Campbell, California, USA] -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From krishnaprasadah.g at gmail.com Wed Oct 23 15:04:46 2019 From: krishnaprasadah.g at gmail.com (Krishnaprasad G) Date: Wed, 23 Oct 19 20:34:46 +0530 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Question: anokaha In-Reply-To: Message-ID: ???? ?????? ???? ??????? ? obstacle for a cart to move. On Wed, Oct 23, 2019, 8:33 PM Krishnaprasad G wrote: > ???? ?????? ??? ???? ???????? > > On Wed, Oct 23, 2019, 7:37 PM Madhav Deshpande via INDOLOGY < > indology at list.indology.info> wrote: > >> Dear Colleagues, >> >> In K?lid?sa's Raghuva??a 2.13, the word *anokaha* is used in the >> sense of a tree. Mallin?tha simply paraphrases *anokaha *with *vr?k?a*. >> Has anyone seen an explanation of this word as to its constituents and >> etymology? Best regards, >> >> Madhav M. Deshpande >> Professor Emeritus, Sanskrit and Linguistics >> University of Michigan, Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA >> Senior Fellow, Oxford Center for Hindu Studies >> >> [Residence: Campbell, California, USA] >> _______________________________________________ >> INDOLOGY mailing list >> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info >> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing >> committee) >> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or >> unsubscribe) >> > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From LubinT at wlu.edu Wed Oct 23 15:17:19 2019 From: LubinT at wlu.edu (Lubin, Tim) Date: Wed, 23 Oct 19 15:17:19 +0000 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Question: anokaha In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <5731DBAD-D5FE-49B3-B2EE-41367F17A031@wlu.edu> Other than B-R?s 1) adj. das Haus nicht verlassend. ? 2) m. Baum Ak. 2, 4, 1, 5. H. 1114. ??k. Ch. 150, 10. Ragh. 2, 13. = M-W?s ` not quitting his home or his place ' There is a similarly formed an-oka-??yin, m. not sleeping in a house ( as a beggar ) Tim Timothy Lubin Professor of Religion and Adjunct Professor of Law Chair of the Department of Religion 204 Tucker Hall Washington and Lee University Lexington, Virginia 24450 https://lubin.academic.wlu.edu/ http://wlu.academia.edu/TimothyLubin http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/cf_dev/AbsByAuth.cfm?per_id=930949 From: INDOLOGY on behalf of INDOLOGY Reply-To: Madhav Deshpande Date: Wednesday, October 23, 2019 at 10:07 AM To: INDOLOGY , Bharatiya Vidvat parishad Subject: [INDOLOGY] Question: anokaha Dear Colleagues, In K?lid?sa's Raghuva??a 2.13, the word anokaha is used in the sense of a tree. Mallin?tha simply paraphrases anokaha with vr?k?a. Has anyone seen an explanation of this word as to its constituents and etymology? Best regards, Madhav M. Deshpande Professor Emeritus, Sanskrit and Linguistics University of Michigan, Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA Senior Fellow, Oxford Center for Hindu Studies [Residence: Campbell, California, USA] -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From wujastyk at gmail.com Wed Oct 23 15:22:13 2019 From: wujastyk at gmail.com (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Wed, 23 Oct 19 09:22:13 -0600 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Gonda's History of Indian Literature vols being reprinted in India Message-ID: I noticed this morning that Gonda's invaluable HIL vols. are being reprinted by Manohar. Go to Manohar's search and search for "History of Indian Literature" to see the series. The prices are very reasonable, though postage out of India will be expensive. Best, Dominik -- Professor Dominik Wujastyk , Singhmar Chair in Classical Indian Society and Polity , Department of History and Classics , University of Alberta, Canada . South Asia at the U of A: sas.ualberta.ca -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mmdesh at umich.edu Wed Oct 23 15:47:06 2019 From: mmdesh at umich.edu (Madhav Deshpande) Date: Wed, 23 Oct 19 08:47:06 -0700 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Question: anokaha In-Reply-To: <5731DBAD-D5FE-49B3-B2EE-41367F17A031@wlu.edu> Message-ID: Thanks, Tim. This is very useful, especially the expression *an-oka-??yin*. Madhav Madhav M. Deshpande Professor Emeritus, Sanskrit and Linguistics University of Michigan, Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA Senior Fellow, Oxford Center for Hindu Studies [Residence: Campbell, California, USA] On Wed, Oct 23, 2019 at 8:17 AM Lubin, Tim wrote: > Other than B-R?s 1) adj. *das Haus nicht verlassend.* > ? 2) m. *Baum* Ak. 2, 4, 1, 5. H. 1114. ??k. Ch. 150, 10. Ragh. 2, 13. > > = M-W?s ` not quitting his home or his place ' > > There is a similarly formed *an-oka-??yin*, m. not sleeping in a house ( > as a beggar ) > > > > Tim > > > > > > Timothy Lubin > > Professor of Religion and Adjunct Professor of Law > > Chair of the Department of Religion > > 204 Tucker Hall > > Washington and Lee University > > Lexington, Virginia 24450 > > > > https://lubin.academic.wlu.edu/ > > http://wlu.academia.edu/TimothyLubin > > http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/cf_dev/AbsByAuth.cfm?per_id=930949 > > > > *From: *INDOLOGY on behalf of > INDOLOGY > *Reply-To: *Madhav Deshpande > *Date: *Wednesday, October 23, 2019 at 10:07 AM > *To: *INDOLOGY , Bharatiya Vidvat parishad < > bvparishat at googlegroups.com> > *Subject: *[INDOLOGY] Question: anokaha > > > > Dear Colleagues, > > > > In K?lid?sa's Raghuva??a 2.13, the word *anokaha* is used in the > sense of a tree. Mallin?tha simply paraphrases *anokaha *with *vr?k?a*. > Has anyone seen an explanation of this word as to its constituents and > etymology? Best regards, > > > Madhav M. Deshpande > > Professor Emeritus, Sanskrit and Linguistics > > University of Michigan, Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA > > Senior Fellow, Oxford Center for Hindu Studies > > > > [Residence: Campbell, California, USA] > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From karin.preisendanz at univie.ac.at Thu Oct 24 01:42:19 2019 From: karin.preisendanz at univie.ac.at (Karin.Preisendanz) Date: Thu, 24 Oct 19 03:42:19 +0200 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Post-doc position in Pre-modern South Asian Studies at the University of Vienna Message-ID: Dear colleagues, The University of Vienna is announcing a full-time post-doc position in Pre-modern South Asian Studies at the Department of South Asian, Tibetan and Buddhist Studies, with employment starting January 1, 2020. Please forward the attached announcements in German and English to potential candidates and have them posted them at your institution. Applications by way of the Job Center of the University of Vienna (/http://jobcenter.univie.ac.at), referring to reference no. 10071, may be submitted until November 28, 2019. With many thanks for your kind assistance and best regards, Karin Preisendanz -- Karin Preisendanz Institut f?r S?dasien-, Tibet- und Buddhismuskunde Universit?t Wien Spitalgasse 2-4, Hof 2, Eingang 2.1 A-1090 Wien ?sterreich -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Ausschreibung10071deutsch.pdf Type: application/pdf Size: 95831 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Ausschreibung10071englisch.pdf Type: application/pdf Size: 95104 bytes Desc: not available URL: From witzel at fas.harvard.edu Thu Oct 24 11:29:20 2019 From: witzel at fas.harvard.edu (Witzel, Michael) Date: Thu, 24 Oct 19 11:29:20 +0000 Subject: =?utf-8?Q?[INDOLOGY]_Fwd:_Ausschreibung_Universit=C3=A4tsassistent/in_an_der_Universit=C3=A4t_Wien?= In-Reply-To: Message-ID: fyi Begin forwarded message: fit From: "Karin.Preisendanz" > Subject: Ausschreibung Universit?tsassistent/in an der Universit?t Wien Date: October 23, 2019 at 10:06:09 PM EDT To: INDOLOGIE at LISTSERV.UNI-HEIDELBERG.DE Reply-To: "Karin.Preisendanz" > Sehr geehrte Kollegen und Kolleginnen, Am Institut f?r S?dasien-, Tibet- und Buddhismuskunde der Universit?t Wien ist die Stelle eines/einer Universit?tsassistenten/assistentin im Bereich des vormodernen S?dasien ausgeschrieben, mit Einstellung ab dem 1. Januar 2020. Ich m?chte Sie bitten, die beiden angeh?ngten Ausschreibungstexte in Deutsch und Englisch an geeignete Kandidaten/Kandidatinnen weiterzuleiten und die Texte an Ihrer Institution aush?ngen zu lassen. Bewerbungen k?nnen bis zum 28. November 2019 ?ber den Job Center der Universit?t (http://jobcenter.univie.ac.at/) eingereicht werden, unter Bezugnahme auf die Kennzahl 10071. Mit bestem Dank f?r Ihre Unterst?tzung und freundlichen Gr??en Karin Preisendanz -- Karin Preisendanz Institut f?r S?dasien-, Tibet- und Buddhismuskunde Universit?t Wien Spitalgasse 2-4, Hof 2, Eingang 2.1 A-1090 Wien ?sterreich Michael Witzel Wales Prof. of Sanskrit, Dept. of South Asian Studies, 1 Bow Street, Cambridge, MA 02138, USA ph. 1 - 617 496 2990 witzel at fas.harvard.edu www.people.fas.harvard.edu/~witzel/mwpage.htm -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Ausschreibung10071deutsch.pdf Type: application/pdf Size: 95831 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Ausschreibung10071englisch.pdf Type: application/pdf Size: 95104 bytes Desc: not available URL: From shenyiming.bas at gmail.com Fri Oct 25 08:02:36 2019 From: shenyiming.bas at gmail.com (Yiming) Date: Fri, 25 Oct 19 09:02:36 +0100 Subject: [INDOLOGY] IIGRS, 1-2 Nov 2019, Oxford: programme attached Message-ID: Dear list, We are happy to announce that the 11th International Indology Graduate Research Symposium (IIGRS) will be hosted at Wolfson College, University of Oxford, on 1-2 November 2019. The final conference programme is now ready. Please find it attached with this message. If you are teaching at an institution, we would be very grateful if you could circulate this information among your students. For more details, please visit https://iigrs.wordpress.com/ We will be more than happy to answer any questions sent to the following email address: iigrsuk at googlemail.com Looking forward to meeting you soon, IIGRS11 Oxford Yiming Shen and Valters Negribs -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: IIGRS11programme.pdf Type: application/pdf Size: 195455 bytes Desc: not available URL: From hspier.muktabodha at gmail.com Fri Oct 25 14:57:29 2019 From: hspier.muktabodha at gmail.com (Harry Spier) Date: Fri, 25 Oct 19 10:57:29 -0400 Subject: =?utf-8?Q?[INDOLOGY]_Name_of_k=C4=81li_in_=C4=81dy=C4=81k=C4=81lik=C4=81stotram?= Message-ID: Dear list members, In verse 3 of the ?dy?k?lik?stotram (hundred names of Kali) k?p?may? k?p?dh?r? k?p?p?r? k?p?gam? | k???nu? kapil? k???? k????nandavivarddhin? || 3 || I've seen k????nandavivarddhin? translated as "the one who increases the bliss of Krishna", but it seemed strange to me that the god Krishna would be mentioned in a hymn to Kali (or is it?). Are there other translations of k????nandavivarddhin? that would make more sense in this context? Thanks, Harry Spier -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From msa2b at virginia.edu Fri Oct 25 20:46:26 2019 From: msa2b at virginia.edu (Allen, Michael S (msa2b)) Date: Fri, 25 Oct 19 20:46:26 +0000 Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_[INDOLOGY]_Name_of_k=C4=81li_in_=C4=81dy=C4=81k=C4=81lik=C4=81stotram?= In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Dear Mr. Spier, Could it perhaps be a reference to K????nanda ?gamav?g??a, the T?ntrika? See, e.g., Encountering K?l?, ed. McDermott and Kripal, p. 54. Best wishes, Michael Michael S. Allen Assistant Professor Dept. of Religious Studies University of Virginia ________________________________ From: INDOLOGY on behalf of Harry Spier via INDOLOGY Sent: Friday, October 25, 2019 10:57 AM To: Indology Subject: [INDOLOGY] Name of k?li in ?dy?k?lik?stotram Dear list members, In verse 3 of the ?dy?k?lik?stotram (hundred names of Kali) k?p?may? k?p?dh?r? k?p?p?r? k?p?gam? | k???nu? kapil? k???? k????nandavivarddhin? || 3 || I've seen k????nandavivarddhin? translated as "the one who increases the bliss of Krishna", but it seemed strange to me that the god Krishna would be mentioned in a hymn to Kali (or is it?). Are there other translations of k????nandavivarddhin? that would make more sense in this context? Thanks, Harry Spier -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From msa2b at virginia.edu Fri Oct 25 22:33:05 2019 From: msa2b at virginia.edu (Allen, Michael S (msa2b)) Date: Fri, 25 Oct 19 22:33:05 +0000 Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_[INDOLOGY]_Name_of_k=C4=81li_in_=C4=81dy=C4=81k=C4=81lik=C4=81stotram?= In-Reply-To: Message-ID: P.S. Or perhaps k???a is simply an epithet for a dark/black form of ?iva/Bhairava, parallel to k???? just before it in the verse. ________________________________ From: INDOLOGY on behalf of Allen, Michael S (msa2b) via INDOLOGY Sent: Friday, October 25, 2019 4:46 PM To: Indology Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] Name of k?li in ?dy?k?lik?stotram Dear Mr. Spier, Could it perhaps be a reference to K????nanda ?gamav?g??a, the T?ntrika? See, e.g., Encountering K?l?, ed. McDermott and Kripal, p. 54. Best wishes, Michael Michael S. Allen Assistant Professor Dept. of Religious Studies University of Virginia ________________________________ From: INDOLOGY on behalf of Harry Spier via INDOLOGY Sent: Friday, October 25, 2019 10:57 AM To: Indology Subject: [INDOLOGY] Name of k?li in ?dy?k?lik?stotram Dear list members, In verse 3 of the ?dy?k?lik?stotram (hundred names of Kali) k?p?may? k?p?dh?r? k?p?p?r? k?p?gam? | k???nu? kapil? k???? k????nandavivarddhin? || 3 || I've seen k????nandavivarddhin? translated as "the one who increases the bliss of Krishna", but it seemed strange to me that the god Krishna would be mentioned in a hymn to Kali (or is it?). Are there other translations of k????nandavivarddhin? that would make more sense in this context? Thanks, Harry Spier -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From hspier.muktabodha at gmail.com Fri Oct 25 23:04:44 2019 From: hspier.muktabodha at gmail.com (Harry Spier) Date: Fri, 25 Oct 19 19:04:44 -0400 Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_[INDOLOGY]_Name_of_k=C4=81li_in_=C4=81dy=C4=81k=C4=81lik=C4=81stotram?= In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Dear Michael, I did find this website "Shri Krishna as Kali" http://www.shivashakti.com/krishna.htm by Mike McGee that says " . . .In places in the tantrik tradition, the Krishna avatar of Vishnu is often identified with Kali. This reaches a peak in the Tantrajajatantra, where it is said that having already charmed the world of men as herself, Lalita took a male form as Krishna and then proceeded to enchant women. . . . In the Todala Tantra, each of the ten Mahavidyas, forms of the supreme Goddess, has her own male counterpart and here Krishna is said to be the spouse of Kali ... He also shows a victorian print of Radha worshipping Krishna as Kali. Can someone say if this information is accurate. Thanks, Harry Spier Thanks, Harry Spier On Fri, Oct 25, 2019 at 6:33 PM Allen, Michael S (msa2b) via INDOLOGY < indology at list.indology.info> wrote: > P.S. Or perhaps *k???a *is simply an epithet for a dark/black form of > ?iva/Bhairava, parallel to *k???? *just before it in the verse. > ------------------------------ > *From:* INDOLOGY on behalf of > Allen, Michael S (msa2b) via INDOLOGY > *Sent:* Friday, October 25, 2019 4:46 PM > *To:* Indology > *Subject:* Re: [INDOLOGY] Name of k?li in ?dy?k?lik?stotram > > Dear Mr. Spier, > > Could it perhaps be a reference to K????nanda ?gamav?g??a, the T?ntrika? > See, e.g., *Encountering K?l?, *ed. McDermott and Kripal, p. 54. > > Best wishes, > Michael > > Michael S. Allen > Assistant Professor > Dept. of Religious Studies > University of Virginia > > ------------------------------ > *From:* INDOLOGY on behalf of Harry > Spier via INDOLOGY > *Sent:* Friday, October 25, 2019 10:57 AM > *To:* Indology > *Subject:* [INDOLOGY] Name of k?li in ?dy?k?lik?stotram > > Dear list members, > > In verse 3 of the ?dy?k?lik?stotram (hundred names of Kali) > > k?p?may? k?p?dh?r? k?p?p?r? k?p?gam? | > > k???nu? kapil? k???? k????nandavivarddhin? || 3 || > > > I've seen k????nandavivarddhin? translated as "the one who increases the > bliss of Krishna", but it seemed strange to me that the god Krishna would > be mentioned in a hymn to Kali (or is it?). Are there other translations > of k????nandavivarddhin? that would make more sense in this context? > > Thanks, > > Harry Spier > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing > committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or > unsubscribe) > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mkapstei at uchicago.edu Sat Oct 26 12:38:30 2019 From: mkapstei at uchicago.edu (Matthew Kapstein) Date: Sat, 26 Oct 19 12:38:30 +0000 Subject: =?utf-8?Q?[INDOLOGY]_Sanskrit_drama_in_La_Belle_=C3=89poque?= Message-ID: Dear Indologists, You may find this to be amusing. Visiting the huge exhibition of the works of Toulouse-Lautrec currently on view at the Grand Palais in Paris, I was surprised to find, amidst his many posters for theater and cabaret, the one I include here, for a production of the M?cchaka?ik?, - the title is even given in devanagari at lower right. If you read carefully, you'll see that TL himself is credited with the sets for the fifth act, though I do not know if any trace of these survives, or if it was photographed. They must have been wonderful! [cid:10fcc694-70d6-4e97-a3ad-71707d2a4f18] Matthew Kapstein Directeur d'?tudes, Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes Numata Visiting Professor of Buddhist Studies, The University of Chicago -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: IMG_1488.JPG Type: image/jpeg Size: 2344207 bytes Desc: not available URL: From rrocher at sas.upenn.edu Sat Oct 26 13:32:55 2019 From: rrocher at sas.upenn.edu (Rocher, Rosane D) Date: Sat, 26 Oct 19 13:32:55 +0000 Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_[INDOLOGY]_Sanskrit_drama_in_La_Belle_=C3=89poque?= In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <4d34a592-4620-4f86-f980-85ae74782504@sas.upenn.edu> Lovely! Thank you. Rosane On 10/26/19 8:38 AM, Matthew Kapstein via INDOLOGY wrote: Dear Indologists, You may find this to be amusing. Visiting the huge exhibition of the works of Toulouse-Lautrec currently on view at the Grand Palais in Paris, I was surprised to find, amidst his many posters for theater and cabaret, the one I include here, for a production of the M?cchaka?ik?, - the title is even given in devanagari at lower right. If you read carefully, you'll see that TL himself is credited with the sets for the fifth act, though I do not know if any trace of these survives, or if it was photographed. They must have been wonderful! [cid:part1.358F6930.EA011018 at sas.upenn.edu] Matthew Kapstein Directeur d'?tudes, Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes Numata Visiting Professor of Buddhist Studies, The University of Chicago _______________________________________________ INDOLOGY mailing list INDOLOGY at list.indology.info indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: IMG_1488.JPG Type: image/jpeg Size: 2344207 bytes Desc: not available URL: From dmellins at gmail.com Sat Oct 26 14:10:50 2019 From: dmellins at gmail.com (David Mellins) Date: Sat, 26 Oct 19 10:10:50 -0400 Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_[INDOLOGY]_Sanskrit_drama_in_La_Belle_=C3=89poque?= In-Reply-To: <4d34a592-4620-4f86-f980-85ae74782504@sas.upenn.edu> Message-ID: This is amazing, a Matthew, who would have thought? ! Sent from my iPhone > On Oct 26, 2019, at 9:33 AM, Rocher, Rosane D via INDOLOGY wrote: > > ? > Lovely! Thank you. > > Rosane > >> On 10/26/19 8:38 AM, Matthew Kapstein via INDOLOGY wrote: >> Dear Indologists, >> >> You may find this to be amusing. >> >> Visiting the huge exhibition of the works of Toulouse-Lautrec currently on view at the Grand Palais in Paris, I was surprised to find, amidst his many posters for theater and cabaret, the one I include here, for a production of the >> M?cchaka?ik?, - the title is even given in devanagari at lower right. If you read carefully, you'll see that TL himself is credited with the sets for the fifth act, though I do not know if any trace of these survives, or if it was photographed. They must have been wonderful! >> >> >> >> >> Matthew Kapstein >> Directeur d'?tudes, >> Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes >> >> Numata Visiting Professor of Buddhist Studies, >> The University of Chicago >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> INDOLOGY mailing list >> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info >> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) >> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From LubinT at wlu.edu Sat Oct 26 14:45:51 2019 From: LubinT at wlu.edu (Lubin, Tim) Date: Sat, 26 Oct 19 14:45:51 +0000 Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_[INDOLOGY]_Sanskrit_drama_in_La_Belle_=C3=89poque?= Message-ID: <4AC8B656-FA18-4E48-97B9-B7A8EB5CE819@wlu.edu> Here is what appears to be an example of the d?cor for act 5: https://d2jv9003bew7ag.cloudfront.net/uploads/469432128.jpg Described thus: Artist: Henri de Toulouse-Lautrec Artwork : Decor Indien Pour Le Chariot De Terre Cuite, Maquette De Decor Pour Le Theatre De Loeuvre Size: 76.7 x 108.5 cm Medium : Oil and gasoline paint on isorel Creation Year: 1894 Category : Painting Provenance : Lugne-Poe, Paris (acquis aupres de l'artiste); Dr. Perles, France; C. Henry Kleemann; Ludwig Charell, New York; Sylvester W. Labrot, Floride (avant 1971); Acquis par le proprietaire actuel dans les annees 2000 Exhibition History : Paris, Musee des arts decoratifs, Exposition H. de Toulouse-Lautrec, avril-mai 1931, p. 61, no. 189 (titre 'Decor avec des elephants'; erron?ment decrit comme pastel); Arezzo, Museo Civico d'Arte Moderna e Contemporanea, Da Picasso a Botero: capolavori dell'Arte del Novecento da una collezione privata, mars-juin 2004 (illustre en couleurs); Paris, Musee d'Orsay, Le theatre de l'OEuvre, 1893- 1900, naissance du theatre moderne, avril-juillet 2005, p. 145, no. 218 (illustre en couleurs, p. 33; erronement decrit comme huile sur carton); Lugano, Museo d'arte della Svizzera italiana, Sulle vie dell'illuminazione, Il mito dell'India nella cultura occidentale, 1808-2017, septembre 2017-janvier 2018, p. 178-179 (illustre en couleurs) He also illustrated a book edition of the play: https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQu1qPbznZ7iMzwwh8Na69UM6VRuCrVBCqe0nzBYYIpMU50HXaPFw&s https://www.edition-originale.com/en/literature/first-and-precious-books/barrucand-le-chariot-de-terre-cuite-1895-49119 Best, Tim Timothy Lubin Professor of Religion and Adjunct Professor of Law Chair of the Department of Religion 204 Tucker Hall Washington and Lee University Lexington, Virginia 24450 https://lubin.academic.wlu.edu/ http://wlu.academia.edu/TimothyLubin http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/cf_dev/AbsByAuth.cfm?per_id=930949 From: INDOLOGY on behalf of INDOLOGY Reply-To: "mkapstei at UCHICAGO.EDU" Date: Saturday, October 26, 2019 at 8:39 AM To: INDOLOGY Subject: [INDOLOGY] Sanskrit drama in La Belle ?poque Dear Indologists, You may find this to be amusing. Visiting the huge exhibition of the works of Toulouse-Lautrec currently on view at the Grand Palais in Paris, I was surprised to find, amidst his many posters for theater and cabaret, the one I include here, for a production of the M?cchaka?ik?, - the title is even given in devanagari at lower right. If you read carefully, you'll see that TL himself is credited with the sets for the fifth act, though I do not know if any trace of these survives, or if it was photographed. They must have been wonderful! Matthew Kapstein Directeur d'?tudes, Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes Numata Visiting Professor of Buddhist Studies, The University of Chicago -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From beitel at gwu.edu Sat Oct 26 15:56:29 2019 From: beitel at gwu.edu (Alfred Hiltebeitel) Date: Sat, 26 Oct 19 11:56:29 -0400 Subject: [INDOLOGY] new .pdf requests Message-ID: Dear Colleagues, Would anyone have .pds of English translations, wherever possible, of the following publications of Bartholomeus Ziegenbalg: his Malabarisches Heidenthum and the Genealogie der Malabarischen Gotter, completed the arly 1700s; and his co-authored Halleschen Berichte. (I have a copy in English of the Geneology but in Washington and not in Colombia). I also still need Louis Dumont?s study of the Pramalai Kallar. Would anyone have in English or French on a .pdf? And I am still looking for a .pdf of William Ward?s 1827 A View of the History, Literature, and Religion of the Hindoos (Serampore: Mission press), for which any edition on pdf would be great... Thanks much, Alf >>> >>> Sent from my iPad >>> >>>>> On Oct 22, 2019, at 4:14 PM, Alfred Hiltebeitel >>>>> wrote: >>>> >>>> ? >>>> >>>> Sent from my iPad >>>> >>>>>> On Oct 22, 2019, at 4:10 PM, Alfred Hiltebeitel >>>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> ? >>>>> Dear Colleagues, >>>>> >>>>> I am writing about Catholic and Protestant responses to Hindu >>>>> sacrifice in the colonial period. >>>>> >>>>> Could anyone supply me withe Will Sweetman?s book, Reading Jesuits >>>>> Reading Hinduism, and his book on Hinduism in the colonial period? >>>>> >>>>> I am also trying to recall a book I think by someone with the surname >>>>> Ward which I recall as a pertinent diatribe agains Hindu sacrifices. >>>>> Does anyone know it? >>>>> >>>>> For comparative purpose I am also interested to know of studies of Jain >>>>> and Buddhist funerary practices in the colonial period. >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> INDOLOGY mailing list >>>>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info >>>>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing >>>>> committee) >>>>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options >>>>> or unsubscribe) > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing > committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or > unsubscribe) > -- Alf Hiltebeitel Professor of Religion, History and Human Sciences Department of Religion George Washington University 2106 G Street, NW Washington DC, 20052 From rrocher at sas.upenn.edu Sat Oct 26 16:10:05 2019 From: rrocher at sas.upenn.edu (Rocher, Rosane D) Date: Sat, 26 Oct 19 16:10:05 +0000 Subject: [INDOLOGY] new .pdf requests In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Dear Alf, You can access a digital copy of Ward's book by the Hathi Trust online https://catalog.hathitrust.org/Record/008882657 There are copies on archive.org as well. Rosane On 10/26/19 11:56 AM, Alfred Hiltebeitel via INDOLOGY wrote: Dear Colleagues, Would anyone have .pds of English translations, wherever possible, of the following publications of Bartholomeus Ziegenbalg: his Malabarisches Heidenthum and the Genealogie der Malabarischen Gotter, completed the arly 1700s; and his co-authored Halleschen Berichte. (I have a copy in English of the Geneology but in Washington and not in Colombia). I also still need Louis Dumont?s study of the Pramalai Kallar. Would anyone have in English or French on a .pdf? And I am still looking for a .pdf of William Ward?s 1827 A View of the History, Literature, and Religion of the Hindoos (Serampore: Mission press), for which any edition on pdf would be great... Thanks much, Alf Sent from my iPad On Oct 22, 2019, at 4:14 PM, Alfred Hiltebeitel wrote: ? Sent from my iPad On Oct 22, 2019, at 4:10 PM, Alfred Hiltebeitel wrote: ? Dear Colleagues, I am writing about Catholic and Protestant responses to Hindu sacrifice in the colonial period. Could anyone supply me withe Will Sweetman?s book, Reading Jesuits Reading Hinduism, and his book on Hinduism in the colonial period? I am also trying to recall a book I think by someone with the surname Ward which I recall as a pertinent diatribe agains Hindu sacrifices. Does anyone know it? For comparative purpose I am also interested to know of studies of Jain and Buddhist funerary practices in the colonial period. _______________________________________________ INDOLOGY mailing list INDOLOGY at list.indology.info indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) _______________________________________________ INDOLOGY mailing list INDOLOGY at list.indology.info indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jpo at austin.utexas.edu Sat Oct 26 18:09:25 2019 From: jpo at austin.utexas.edu (Olivelle, J P) Date: Sat, 26 Oct 19 18:09:25 +0000 Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_[INDOLOGY]_Sanskrit_drama_in_La_Belle_=C3=89poque?= In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <1C5B70FC-FB7D-4A92-81D2-D2C2BA0055CE@austin.utexas.edu> It is interesting that just a few days ago I checked the Wikipedia about the M?cchaka?ik?, and they mentioned this production in Paris, among other 19th century productions of the play: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M?cchakatika Patrick On Oct 26, 2019, at 7:38 AM, Matthew Kapstein via INDOLOGY > wrote: Dear Indologists, You may find this to be amusing. Visiting the huge exhibition of the works of Toulouse-Lautrec currently on view at the Grand Palais in Paris, I was surprised to find, amidst his many posters for theater and cabaret, the one I include here, for a production of the M?cchaka?ik?, - the title is even given in devanagari at lower right. If you read carefully, you'll see that TL himself is credited with the sets for the fifth act, though I do not know if any trace of these survives, or if it was photographed. They must have been wonderful! Matthew Kapstein Directeur d'?tudes, Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes Numata Visiting Professor of Buddhist Studies, The University of Chicago _______________________________________________ INDOLOGY mailing list INDOLOGY at list.indology.info indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) This message is from an external sender. Learn more about why this << matters at https://links.utexas.edu/rtyclf. << -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jknutson at hawaii.edu Sat Oct 26 21:43:42 2019 From: jknutson at hawaii.edu (Jesse Knutson) Date: Sat, 26 Oct 19 11:43:42 -1000 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Intro to mathematics in Skt Message-ID: Dear Friends, I am asking on behalf of a student with a math background, but am also interested for myself, despite very limited math: Can you recommend some good introductions to Sanskrit mathematical traditions? Best,J -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mkapstei at uchicago.edu Sat Oct 26 21:57:41 2019 From: mkapstei at uchicago.edu (Matthew Kapstein) Date: Sat, 26 Oct 19 21:57:41 +0000 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Intro to mathematics in Skt In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hi Jesse, The go-to book would be Kim Plofker?s Matthew Get Outlook for iOS ________________________________ From: INDOLOGY on behalf of Jesse Knutson via INDOLOGY Sent: Saturday, October 26, 2019 11:43:42 PM To: Indology Cc: Julia Fujisaka Subject: [INDOLOGY] Intro to mathematics in Skt Dear Friends, I am asking on behalf of a student with a math background, but am also interested for myself, despite very limited math: Can you recommend some good introductions to Sanskrit mathematical traditions? Best,J -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jknutson at hawaii.edu Sun Oct 27 02:05:15 2019 From: jknutson at hawaii.edu (Jesse Knutson) Date: Sat, 26 Oct 19 16:05:15 -1000 Subject: [INDOLOGY] thanks Message-ID: Thanks to both Deven Patel and Matthew Kapstein for pointing me to this fascinating book= https://press.princeton.edu/books/hardcover/9780691120676/mathematics-in-india ------------------------------------------------------------------ Jesse Ross Knutson PhD Associate Professor of Sanskrit Language and Literature & Chair Department of Indo-Pacific Languages and Literatures University of Hawai'i, M?noa 461 Spalding -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From a.petrocchi at cantab.net Sun Oct 27 08:27:54 2019 From: a.petrocchi at cantab.net (Alessandra Petrocchi) Date: Sun, 27 Oct 19 08:27:54 +0000 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Intro to mathematics in Skt In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <37750.81.109.125.217.1572164874.squirrel@www.cantab.net> Dear Jesse, just to expand a bit the reading list: if your student or yourself would like to investigate this subject further, I also would recommend to look at the publications by the following scholars, who are experts in this field as well: Takao Hayashi, Agathe Keller, Takanori Kusuba, Clemency Montelle, Francois Patte, and myself. Best wishes, Alessandra. Dr Alessandra Petrocchi Leverhulme Trust Early Career Research Fellow Faculty of Linguistics Philology and Phonetics University of Oxford On Sat, October 26, 2019 21:43, Jesse Knutson via INDOLOGY wrote: > Dear Friends, I am asking on behalf of a student with a math background, > but am also interested for myself, despite very limited math: Can you > recommend some good introductions to Sanskrit mathematical traditions? > Best,J > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing > committee) http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list > options or unsubscribe) > -- Dr Alessandra Petrocchi Leverhulme Trust Early Career Research Fellow Faculty of Linguistics Philology and Phonetics University of Oxford From christophe.vielle at uclouvain.be Sun Oct 27 09:00:29 2019 From: christophe.vielle at uclouvain.be (Christophe Vielle) Date: Sun, 27 Oct 19 09:00:29 +0000 Subject: [INDOLOGY] new .pdf requests In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <45BB16C2-8B49-43DA-A41A-BC4B68939487@uclouvain.be> For the second work of Ziegenbald : Genealogy of the South-Indian gods : a manual of the mythology and religion of the people of southern India, including a description of popular Hinduism, Madras : Higginbotham, 1869. here on Archiv: https://archive.org/details/genealogysouthi00metzgoog/ https://catalog.hathitrust.org/Record/000390436 (reprint of 1984) Le 26 oct. 2019 ? 17:56, Alfred Hiltebeitel via INDOLOGY > a ?crit : Dear Colleagues, Would anyone have .pds of English translations, wherever possible, of the following publications of Bartholomeus Ziegenbalg: his Malabarisches Heidenthum and the Genealogie der Malabarischen Gotter, completed the arly 1700s; and his co-authored Halleschen Berichte. (I have a copy in English of the Geneology but in Washington and not in Colombia). I also still need Louis Dumont?s study of the Pramalai Kallar. Would anyone have in English or French on a .pdf? And I am still looking for a .pdf of William Ward?s 1827 A View of the History, Literature, and Religion of the Hindoos (Serampore: Mission press), for which any edition on pdf would be great... Thanks much, Alf Sent from my iPad On Oct 22, 2019, at 4:14 PM, Alfred Hiltebeitel > wrote: ? Sent from my iPad On Oct 22, 2019, at 4:10 PM, Alfred Hiltebeitel > wrote: ? Dear Colleagues, I am writing about Catholic and Protestant responses to Hindu sacrifice in the colonial period. Could anyone supply me withe Will Sweetman?s book, Reading Jesuits Reading Hinduism, and his book on Hinduism in the colonial period? I am also trying to recall a book I think by someone with the surname Ward which I recall as a pertinent diatribe agains Hindu sacrifices. Does anyone know it? For comparative purpose I am also interested to know of studies of Jain and Buddhist funerary practices in the colonial period. _______________________________________________ INDOLOGY mailing list INDOLOGY at list.indology.info indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Flistinfo.indology.info&data=02%7C01%7C%7C221d36e4b4464fb1e92708d75a2d2c0a%7C7ab090d4fa2e4ecfbc7c4127b4d582ec%7C0%7C0%7C637077022371058631&sdata=zKX1hCUEaNMD%2BY0dRs1ZJmtkkbH8n0F2aYKloQfq%2BmI%3D&reserved=0 (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) _______________________________________________ INDOLOGY mailing list INDOLOGY at list.indology.info indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Flistinfo.indology.info&data=02%7C01%7C%7C221d36e4b4464fb1e92708d75a2d2c0a%7C7ab090d4fa2e4ecfbc7c4127b4d582ec%7C0%7C0%7C637077022371058631&sdata=zKX1hCUEaNMD%2BY0dRs1ZJmtkkbH8n0F2aYKloQfq%2BmI%3D&reserved=0 (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) -- Alf Hiltebeitel Professor of Religion, History and Human Sciences Department of Religion George Washington University 2106 G Street, NW Washington DC, 20052 _______________________________________________ INDOLOGY mailing list INDOLOGY at list.indology.info indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Flistinfo.indology.info&data=02%7C01%7C%7C221d36e4b4464fb1e92708d75a2d2c0a%7C7ab090d4fa2e4ecfbc7c4127b4d582ec%7C0%7C0%7C637077022371058631&sdata=zKX1hCUEaNMD%2BY0dRs1ZJmtkkbH8n0F2aYKloQfq%2BmI%3D&reserved=0 (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) ??????????????????? Christophe Vielle Louvain-la-Neuve -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From christophe.vielle at uclouvain.be Sun Oct 27 09:10:46 2019 From: christophe.vielle at uclouvain.be (Christophe Vielle) Date: Sun, 27 Oct 19 09:10:46 +0000 Subject: [INDOLOGY] new .pdf requests Message-ID: <5F82D737-7181-48D6-BB50-10AB67592F97@uclouvain.be> For Malabarisches Heidenthum : A German exploration of Indian society : Ziegenbalg's "Malabarian Heathenism" : an annonated English translation with an introduction and a glossary / by Daniel Jeyara, Chennai : Mylapore Institute for Indigenous Studies ; 2006. https://books.google.com?id=jJtOAQAAIAAJ https://catalog.hathitrust.org/Record/010592399 It is probably not available on-ine even in the USA. Dear Colleagues, Would anyone have .pds of English translations, wherever possible, of the following publications of Bartholomeus Ziegenbalg: his Malabarisches Heidenthum and the Genealogie der Malabarischen Gotter, completed the arly 1700s; and his co-authored Halleschen Berichte. (I have a copy in English of the Geneology but in Washington and not in Colombia). I also still need Louis Dumont?s study of the Pramalai Kallar. Would anyone have in English or French on a .pdf? And I am still looking for a .pdf of William Ward?s 1827 A View of the History, Literature, and Religion of the Hindoos (Serampore: Mission press), for which any edition on pdf would be great... Thanks much, Alf Sent from my iPad On Oct 22, 2019, at 4:14 PM, Alfred Hiltebeitel > wrote: ? Sent from my iPad On Oct 22, 2019, at 4:10 PM, Alfred Hiltebeitel > wrote: ? Dear Colleagues, I am writing about Catholic and Protestant responses to Hindu sacrifice in the colonial period. Could anyone supply me withe Will Sweetman?s book, Reading Jesuits Reading Hinduism, and his book on Hinduism in the colonial period? I am also trying to recall a book I think by someone with the surname Ward which I recall as a pertinent diatribe agains Hindu sacrifices. Does anyone know it? For comparative purpose I am also interested to know of studies of Jain and Buddhist funerary practices in the colonial period. _______________________________________________ INDOLOGY mailing list INDOLOGY at list.indology.info indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Flistinfo.indology.info&data=02%7C01%7C%7C221d36e4b4464fb1e92708d75a2d2c0a%7C7ab090d4fa2e4ecfbc7c4127b4d582ec%7C0%7C0%7C637077022371058631&sdata=zKX1hCUEaNMD%2BY0dRs1ZJmtkkbH8n0F2aYKloQfq%2BmI%3D&reserved=0 (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) _______________________________________________ INDOLOGY mailing list INDOLOGY at list.indology.info indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Flistinfo.indology.info&data=02%7C01%7C%7C221d36e4b4464fb1e92708d75a2d2c0a%7C7ab090d4fa2e4ecfbc7c4127b4d582ec%7C0%7C0%7C637077022371058631&sdata=zKX1hCUEaNMD%2BY0dRs1ZJmtkkbH8n0F2aYKloQfq%2BmI%3D&reserved=0 (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) -- Alf Hiltebeitel Professor of Religion, History and Human Sciences Department of Religion George Washington University 2106 G Street, NW Washington DC, 20052 _______________________________________________ INDOLOGY mailing list INDOLOGY at list.indology.info indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Flistinfo.indology.info&data=02%7C01%7C%7C221d36e4b4464fb1e92708d75a2d2c0a%7C7ab090d4fa2e4ecfbc7c4127b4d582ec%7C0%7C0%7C637077022371058631&sdata=zKX1hCUEaNMD%2BY0dRs1ZJmtkkbH8n0F2aYKloQfq%2BmI%3D&reserved=0 (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From christophe.vielle at uclouvain.be Sun Oct 27 09:23:23 2019 From: christophe.vielle at uclouvain.be (Christophe Vielle) Date: Sun, 27 Oct 19 09:23:23 +0000 Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_[INDOLOGY]_Sanskrit_drama_in_La_Belle_=C3=89poque?= In-Reply-To: <4d34a592-4620-4f86-f980-85ae74782504@sas.upenn.edu> Message-ID: <1EF0683A-192C-4D9B-B92E-A8B71EEBBE6B@uclouvain.be> The 1895 French version of the play by V. Barrucand referred to on the poster is available here on Gallica: https://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/bpt6k58168017 2nd edition 1928: https://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/bpt6k5814067m Le 26 oct. 2019 ? 15:32, Rocher, Rosane D via INDOLOGY a ?crit : Lovely! Thank you. Rosane On 10/26/19 8:38 AM, Matthew Kapstein via INDOLOGY wrote: Dear Indologists, You may find this to be amusing. Visiting the huge exhibition of the works of Toulouse-Lautrec currently on view at the Grand Palais in Paris, I was surprised to find, amidst his many posters for theater and cabaret, the one I include here, for a production of the M?cchaka?ik?, - the title is even given in devanagari at lower right. If you read carefully, you'll see that TL himself is credited with the sets for the fifth act, though I do not know if any trace of these survives, or if it was photographed. They must have been wonderful! Matthew Kapstein Directeur d'?tudes, Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes Numata Visiting Professor of Buddhist Studies, The University of Chicago _______________________________________________ INDOLOGY mailing list INDOLOGY at list.indology.info indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) _______________________________________________ INDOLOGY mailing list INDOLOGY at list.indology.info indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Flistinfo.indology.info&data=02%7C01%7C%7C4a7ce83332bf4320db6608d75a1921dd%7C7ab090d4fa2e4ecfbc7c4127b4d582ec%7C0%7C0%7C637076936306178007&sdata=tNvkAo3Gj1614xxLLZc%2BFvcImgKFnKM%2B9fxdvyILYW8%3D&reserved=0 (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) ??????????????????? Christophe Vielle Louvain-la-Neuve -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ericmgurevitch at gmail.com Sun Oct 27 09:33:33 2019 From: ericmgurevitch at gmail.com (Eric Gurevitch) Date: Sun, 27 Oct 19 15:03:33 +0530 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Intro to mathematics in Skt In-Reply-To: <37750.81.109.125.217.1572164874.squirrel@www.cantab.net> Message-ID: Dear Jesse, The HAMSI-website run by Clemency Montelle and Kim Plofker contains a useful bibliography that is slightly expanded from that found in Plofker's excellent book. It can be accessed here: http://www.hamsi.org.nz/p/annotated-bibliography.html all the best, Eric Eric Gurevitch PhD Candidate, South Asian Languages and Civilizations and Committee on Conceptual and Historical Studies of Science University of Chicago gurevitch at uchicago.edu On Sun, Oct 27, 2019 at 1:58 PM Alessandra Petrocchi via INDOLOGY < indology at list.indology.info> wrote: > Dear Jesse, > just to expand a bit the reading list: if your student or yourself would > like to investigate this subject further, I also would recommend to look > at the publications by the following scholars, who are experts in this > field as well: Takao Hayashi, Agathe Keller, Takanori Kusuba, Clemency > Montelle, Francois Patte, and myself. > > Best wishes, > Alessandra. > > Dr Alessandra Petrocchi > Leverhulme Trust Early Career Research Fellow > Faculty of Linguistics Philology and Phonetics > University of Oxford > > > On Sat, October 26, 2019 21:43, Jesse Knutson via INDOLOGY wrote: > > Dear Friends, I am asking on behalf of a student with a math background, > > but am also interested for myself, despite very limited math: Can you > > recommend some good introductions to Sanskrit mathematical traditions? > > Best,J > > _______________________________________________ > > INDOLOGY mailing list > > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing > > committee) http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list > > options or unsubscribe) > > > > > -- > Dr Alessandra Petrocchi > Leverhulme Trust Early Career Research Fellow > Faculty of Linguistics Philology and Phonetics > University of Oxford > > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing > committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or > unsubscribe) > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From H.J.H.Tieken at hum.leidenuniv.nl Sun Oct 27 14:37:55 2019 From: H.J.H.Tieken at hum.leidenuniv.nl (Tieken, H.J.H.) Date: Sun, 27 Oct 19 14:37:55 +0000 Subject: [INDOLOGY] new .pdf requests In-Reply-To: <5F82D737-7181-48D6-BB50-10AB67592F97@uclouvain.be> Message-ID: If you are interested in Malabarisches Heidenthum, you might also be interested in the following title (I sound like Amazon): Carolien Stolte. Philip Angel's Deex-Autaers. Vai??ava Mythology from Manuscript to Book Market in the Context of the Dutch East India Company, c. 1600-1672. Dutch Sources on South Asia c. 1600-1825. Vol. 5. Delhi: Manohar 2012. Herman Herman Tieken Stationsweg 58 2515 BP Den Haag The Netherlands 00 31 (0)70 2208127 website: hermantieken.com ________________________________ Van: INDOLOGY [indology-bounces at list.indology.info] namens Christophe Vielle via INDOLOGY [indology at list.indology.info] Verzonden: zondag 27 oktober 2019 10:10 Aan: Alfred Hiltebeitel CC: indology at list.indology.info Onderwerp: [INDOLOGY] new .pdf requests For Malabarisches Heidenthum : A German exploration of Indian society : Ziegenbalg's "Malabarian Heathenism" : an annonated English translation with an introduction and a glossary / by Daniel Jeyara, Chennai : Mylapore Institute for Indigenous Studies ; 2006. https://books.google.com?id=jJtOAQAAIAAJ https://catalog.hathitrust.org/Record/010592399 It is probably not available on-ine even in the USA. Dear Colleagues, Would anyone have .pds of English translations, wherever possible, of the following publications of Bartholomeus Ziegenbalg: his Malabarisches Heidenthum and the Genealogie der Malabarischen Gotter, completed the arly 1700s; and his co-authored Halleschen Berichte. (I have a copy in English of the Geneology but in Washington and not in Colombia). I also still need Louis Dumont?s study of the Pramalai Kallar. Would anyone have in English or French on a .pdf? And I am still looking for a .pdf of William Ward?s 1827 A View of the History, Literature, and Religion of the Hindoos (Serampore: Mission press), for which any edition on pdf would be great... Thanks much, Alf Sent from my iPad On Oct 22, 2019, at 4:14 PM, Alfred Hiltebeitel > wrote: ? Sent from my iPad On Oct 22, 2019, at 4:10 PM, Alfred Hiltebeitel > wrote: ? Dear Colleagues, I am writing about Catholic and Protestant responses to Hindu sacrifice in the colonial period. Could anyone supply me withe Will Sweetman?s book, Reading Jesuits Reading Hinduism, and his book on Hinduism in the colonial period? I am also trying to recall a book I think by someone with the surname Ward which I recall as a pertinent diatribe agains Hindu sacrifices. Does anyone know it? For comparative purpose I am also interested to know of studies of Jain and Buddhist funerary practices in the colonial period. _______________________________________________ INDOLOGY mailing list INDOLOGY at list.indology.info indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Flistinfo.indology.info&data=02%7C01%7C%7C221d36e4b4464fb1e92708d75a2d2c0a%7C7ab090d4fa2e4ecfbc7c4127b4d582ec%7C0%7C0%7C637077022371058631&sdata=zKX1hCUEaNMD%2BY0dRs1ZJmtkkbH8n0F2aYKloQfq%2BmI%3D&reserved=0 (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) _______________________________________________ INDOLOGY mailing list INDOLOGY at list.indology.info indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Flistinfo.indology.info&data=02%7C01%7C%7C221d36e4b4464fb1e92708d75a2d2c0a%7C7ab090d4fa2e4ecfbc7c4127b4d582ec%7C0%7C0%7C637077022371058631&sdata=zKX1hCUEaNMD%2BY0dRs1ZJmtkkbH8n0F2aYKloQfq%2BmI%3D&reserved=0 (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) -- Alf Hiltebeitel Professor of Religion, History and Human Sciences Department of Religion George Washington University 2106 G Street, NW Washington DC, 20052 _______________________________________________ INDOLOGY mailing list INDOLOGY at list.indology.info indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Flistinfo.indology.info&data=02%7C01%7C%7C221d36e4b4464fb1e92708d75a2d2c0a%7C7ab090d4fa2e4ecfbc7c4127b4d582ec%7C0%7C0%7C637077022371058631&sdata=zKX1hCUEaNMD%2BY0dRs1ZJmtkkbH8n0F2aYKloQfq%2BmI%3D&reserved=0 (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jknutson at hawaii.edu Sun Oct 27 17:59:37 2019 From: jknutson at hawaii.edu (Jesse Knutson) Date: Sun, 27 Oct 19 07:59:37 -1000 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Intro to mathematics in Skt In-Reply-To: <37750.81.109.125.217.1572164874.squirrel@www.cantab.net> Message-ID: Thanks so much for this Alessandra. On Sat, Oct 26, 2019, 10:28 PM Alessandra Petrocchi wrote: > Dear Jesse, > just to expand a bit the reading list: if your student or yourself would > like to investigate this subject further, I also would recommend to look > at the publications by the following scholars, who are experts in this > field as well: Takao Hayashi, Agathe Keller, Takanori Kusuba, Clemency > Montelle, Francois Patte, and myself. > > Best wishes, > Alessandra. > > Dr Alessandra Petrocchi > Leverhulme Trust Early Career Research Fellow > Faculty of Linguistics Philology and Phonetics > University of Oxford > > > On Sat, October 26, 2019 21:43, Jesse Knutson via INDOLOGY wrote: > > Dear Friends, I am asking on behalf of a student with a math background, > > but am also interested for myself, despite very limited math: Can you > > recommend some good introductions to Sanskrit mathematical traditions? > > Best,J > > _______________________________________________ > > INDOLOGY mailing list > > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing > > committee) http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list > > options or unsubscribe) > > > > > -- > Dr Alessandra Petrocchi > Leverhulme Trust Early Career Research Fellow > Faculty of Linguistics Philology and Phonetics > University of Oxford > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jknutson at hawaii.edu Sun Oct 27 18:01:52 2019 From: jknutson at hawaii.edu (Jesse Knutson) Date: Sun, 27 Oct 19 08:01:52 -1000 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Intro to mathematics in Skt In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Thanks so much Eric and thanks also to Ramkrishna Bhatt for a ref to his new book The Origins of Geometry in India. On Sat, Oct 26, 2019, 11:33 PM Eric Gurevitch wrote: > Dear Jesse, > > The HAMSI-website run by Clemency Montelle and Kim Plofker contains a > useful bibliography that is slightly expanded from that found in Plofker's > excellent book. It can be accessed here: > http://www.hamsi.org.nz/p/annotated-bibliography.html > > all the best, > Eric > > Eric Gurevitch > > PhD Candidate, South Asian Languages and Civilizations and > > Committee on Conceptual and Historical Studies of Science > > University of Chicago > > gurevitch at uchicago.edu > > On Sun, Oct 27, 2019 at 1:58 PM Alessandra Petrocchi via INDOLOGY < > indology at list.indology.info> wrote: > >> Dear Jesse, >> just to expand a bit the reading list: if your student or yourself would >> like to investigate this subject further, I also would recommend to look >> at the publications by the following scholars, who are experts in this >> field as well: Takao Hayashi, Agathe Keller, Takanori Kusuba, Clemency >> Montelle, Francois Patte, and myself. >> >> Best wishes, >> Alessandra. >> >> Dr Alessandra Petrocchi >> Leverhulme Trust Early Career Research Fellow >> Faculty of Linguistics Philology and Phonetics >> University of Oxford >> >> >> On Sat, October 26, 2019 21:43, Jesse Knutson via INDOLOGY wrote: >> > Dear Friends, I am asking on behalf of a student with a math background, >> > but am also interested for myself, despite very limited math: Can you >> > recommend some good introductions to Sanskrit mathematical traditions? >> > Best,J >> > _______________________________________________ >> > INDOLOGY mailing list >> > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info >> > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing >> > committee) http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your >> list >> > options or unsubscribe) >> > >> >> >> -- >> Dr Alessandra Petrocchi >> Leverhulme Trust Early Career Research Fellow >> Faculty of Linguistics Philology and Phonetics >> University of Oxford >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> INDOLOGY mailing list >> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info >> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing >> committee) >> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or >> unsubscribe) >> > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From joerg.gengnagel at uni-wuerzburg.de Tue Oct 29 09:18:06 2019 From: joerg.gengnagel at uni-wuerzburg.de (=?utf-8?Q?J=C3=B6rg_Gengnagel?=) Date: Tue, 29 Oct 19 10:18:06 +0100 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Reminder: "Lived Sanskrit Cultures in Varanasi", February 17 to March 6 2020 Message-ID: Dear Colleagues, we are currently preparing the third round of our course "Lived Sanskrit Cultures in Varanasi" (February 17 to March 6 2020). The course is still open for applications and we would be pleased if you could forward this announcement to potential applicants. For more information: https://www.sai.uni-heidelberg.de/abt/IND/hdsanskrit/2020_varanasi.php http://www.indologie.uni-wuerzburg.de/aktuell/ Organizers: Prof. Dr. Ute H?sken (Heidelberg University) Prof. Dr. J?rg Gengnagel (W?rzburg University) Dr. Vinita Chandra (IIT / Banaras Hindu University) All the best, Joerg Gengnagel -- Prof. Dr. J?rg Gengnagel Universit?t W?rzburg Institut f?r Kulturwissenschaften Ost- und S?dasiens Lehrstuhl f?r Indologie Am Hubland D-97074 W?rzburg e-mail: joerg.gengnagel at uni-wuerzburg.de Tel.: +49(0)931/31-88516 Fax: +49(0)931/31-87510 From mailmealakendudas at rediffmail.com Wed Oct 30 07:16:25 2019 From: mailmealakendudas at rediffmail.com (alakendu das) Date: Wed, 30 Oct 19 07:16:25 +0000 Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_[INDOLOGY]_Sanskrit_drama_in_La_Belle_=C3=89poque?= Message-ID: <1572419415.S.92794.autosave.drafts.1572419785.11675@webmail.rediffmail.com> Dr.Kapstein,I rue that I saw this post so late.It's indeed awe-inspiring.! I feel there exists an English version of MrchhaKatikam, namely The Clay Cart.I shall confirm it.Alakendu Das  Sent from RediffmailNG on Android From: Matthew Kapstein via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info> Sent: Sat, 26 Oct 2019 18:09:29 GMT+0530 To: "indology at list.indology.info" <INDOLOGY at list.indology.info> Subject: [INDOLOGY] Sanskrit drama in La Belle ?poque Dear Indologists, You may find this to be amusing. Visiting the huge exhibition of the works of Toulouse-Lautrec currently on view at the Grand Palais in Paris, I was surprised to find, amidst his many posters for theater and cabaret, the one I include here, for a production of the M?cchaka?ik?, - the title is even given in devanagari at lower right. If you read carefully, you'll see that TL himself is credited with the sets for the fifth act, though I do not know if any trace of these survives, or if it was photographed. They must have been wonderful! Matthew Kapstein Directeur d'?tudes, Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes Numata Visiting Professor of Buddhist Studies, The University of Chicago _______________________________________________ INDOLOGY mailing list INDOLOGY at list.indology.info indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: IMG_1488.JPG Type: image/jpeg Size: 2344207 bytes Desc: not available URL: From hhhock at illinois.edu Wed Oct 30 07:32:41 2019 From: hhhock at illinois.edu (Hock, Hans Henrich) Date: Wed, 30 Oct 19 07:32:41 +0000 Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_[INDOLOGY]_Sanskrit_drama_in_La_Belle_=C3=89poque?= In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <6A02A0F5-515E-46BA-8B2D-E4642390C1D8@illinois.edu> Thanks very much, Matthew. This message came just in time when I was on my way to Paris for a conference, and on the day before the conference I was actually able to see the poster, as well as the entire exhibition. Cheers, Hans Henrich On 26 Oct2019, at 14:38, Matthew Kapstein via INDOLOGY > wrote: Dear Indologists, You may find this to be amusing. Visiting the huge exhibition of the works of Toulouse-Lautrec currently on view at the Grand Palais in Paris, I was surprised to find, amidst his many posters for theater and cabaret, the one I include here, for a production of the M?cchaka?ik?, - the title is even given in devanagari at lower right. If you read carefully, you'll see that TL himself is credited with the sets for the fifth act, though I do not know if any trace of these survives, or if it was photographed. They must have been wonderful! Matthew Kapstein Directeur d'?tudes, Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes Numata Visiting Professor of Buddhist Studies, The University of Chicago _______________________________________________ INDOLOGY mailing list INDOLOGY at list.indology.info indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mkapstei at uchicago.edu Wed Oct 30 08:15:47 2019 From: mkapstei at uchicago.edu (Matthew Kapstein) Date: Wed, 30 Oct 19 08:15:47 +0000 Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_[INDOLOGY]_Sanskrit_drama_in_La_Belle_=C3=89poque?= In-Reply-To: <1572419415.S.92794.autosave.drafts.1572419785.11675@webmail.rediffmail.com> Message-ID: Dear Alakendu, There are several English translations. The best known is perhaps the "Little Clay Cart" of the American Sanskritist Arthur Ryder, first published in 1905. cordially, Matthew Matthew Kapstein Directeur d'?tudes, Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes Numata Visiting Professor of Buddhist Studies, The University of Chicago ________________________________ From: mailmealakendudas at rediffmail.com on behalf of alakendu das Sent: Wednesday, October 30, 2019 2:16 AM To: Matthew Kapstein Cc: indology at list.indology.info Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] Sanskrit drama in La Belle ?poque Dr.Kapstein, I rue that I saw this post so late.It's indeed awe-inspiring.! I feel there exists an English version of MrchhaKatikam, namely The Clay Cart.I shall confirm it. Alakendu Das Sent from RediffmailNG on Android From: Matthew Kapstein via INDOLOGY Sent: Sat, 26 Oct 2019 18:09:29 GMT+0530 To: "indology at list.indology.info" Subject: [INDOLOGY] Sanskrit drama in La Belle ?poque Dear Indologists, You may find this to be amusing. Visiting the huge exhibition of the works of Toulouse-Lautrec currently on view at the Grand Palais in Paris, I was surprised to find, amidst his many posters for theater and cabaret, the one I include here, for a production of the M?cchaka?ik?, - the title is even given in devanagari at lower right. If you read carefully, you'll see that TL himself is credited with the sets for the fifth act, though I do not know if any trace of these survives, or if it was photographed. They must have been wonderful! [cid:1.1572419785 at web.rediffmail.com] Matthew Kapstein Directeur d'?tudes, Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes Numata Visiting Professor of Buddhist Studies, The University of Chicago _______________________________________________ INDOLOGY mailing list INDOLOGY at list.indology.info indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: IMG_1488.JPG Type: image/jpeg Size: 2344207 bytes Desc: not available URL: From H.J.H.Tieken at hum.leidenuniv.nl Wed Oct 30 08:29:16 2019 From: H.J.H.Tieken at hum.leidenuniv.nl (Tieken, H.J.H.) Date: Wed, 30 Oct 19 08:29:16 +0000 Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_[INDOLOGY]_Sanskrit_drama_in_La_Belle_=C3=89poque?= In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Dear Matthew, Some years ago I attended a paper delivered by Emilio Ghezzi, the partner of our colleague Daniela Rossella (University of Potenza) on the designs of the stage and costumes of 19th-century operas with oriental themes. Emilio is a composer himself. I do have a tape with music composed by him somewhere but do not have the necessary equipment anymore. It was a fascinating paper with many slides of original drawings from the 19th century. I do not know if the paper has already been published, but hope it will. The most recent email address of Emilio (and Daniela) I have is ghezziem at tin.it. Best, Herman Herman Tieken Stationsweg 58 2515 BP Den Haag The Netherlands 00 31 (0)70 2208127 website: hermantieken.com ________________________________ Van: INDOLOGY [indology-bounces at list.indology.info] namens Matthew Kapstein via INDOLOGY [indology at list.indology.info] Verzonden: woensdag 30 oktober 2019 9:15 Aan: alakendu das CC: indology at list.indology.info Onderwerp: Re: [INDOLOGY] Sanskrit drama in La Belle ?poque Dear Alakendu, There are several English translations. The best known is perhaps the "Little Clay Cart" of the American Sanskritist Arthur Ryder, first published in 1905. cordially, Matthew Matthew Kapstein Directeur d'?tudes, Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes Numata Visiting Professor of Buddhist Studies, The University of Chicago ________________________________ From: mailmealakendudas at rediffmail.com on behalf of alakendu das Sent: Wednesday, October 30, 2019 2:16 AM To: Matthew Kapstein Cc: indology at list.indology.info Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] Sanskrit drama in La Belle ?poque Dr.Kapstein, I rue that I saw this post so late.It's indeed awe-inspiring.! I feel there exists an English version of MrchhaKatikam, namely The Clay Cart.I shall confirm it. Alakendu Das Sent from RediffmailNG on Android From: Matthew Kapstein via INDOLOGY Sent: Sat, 26 Oct 2019 18:09:29 GMT+0530 To: "indology at list.indology.info" Subject: [INDOLOGY] Sanskrit drama in La Belle ?poque Dear Indologists, You may find this to be amusing. Visiting the huge exhibition of the works of Toulouse-Lautrec currently on view at the Grand Palais in Paris, I was surprised to find, amidst his many posters for theater and cabaret, the one I include here, for a production of the M?cchaka?ik?, - the title is even given in devanagari at lower right. If you read carefully, you'll see that TL himself is credited with the sets for the fifth act, though I do not know if any trace of these survives, or if it was photographed. They must have been wonderful! [cid:1.1572419785 at web.rediffmail.com] Matthew Kapstein Directeur d'?tudes, Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes Numata Visiting Professor of Buddhist Studies, The University of Chicago _______________________________________________ INDOLOGY mailing list INDOLOGY at list.indology.info indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: IMG_1488.JPG Type: image/jpeg Size: 2344207 bytes Desc: not available URL: From mkapstei at uchicago.edu Wed Oct 30 08:36:32 2019 From: mkapstei at uchicago.edu (Matthew Kapstein) Date: Wed, 30 Oct 19 08:36:32 +0000 Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_[INDOLOGY]_Sanskrit_drama_in_La_Belle_=C3=89poque?= In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Dear Herman, Thanks a lot for this interesting reference. There is of course a tremendous amount of 19th-century European theatre, opera, poetry, painting with oriental themes - it's a very big topic and has been the object of much research. But it is not so much my area, though I am interested - I posted the Toulouse-Lautrec to the list just as an amusing curiosity and not in connection with any academic project that I am undertaking. best regards, Matthew Matthew Kapstein Directeur d'?tudes, Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes Numata Visiting Professor of Buddhist Studies, The University of Chicago ________________________________ From: Tieken, H.J.H. Sent: Wednesday, October 30, 2019 3:29 AM To: Matthew Kapstein ; alakendu das Cc: indology at list.indology.info Subject: RE: [INDOLOGY] Sanskrit drama in La Belle ?poque Dear Matthew, Some years ago I attended a paper delivered by Emilio Ghezzi, the partner of our colleague Daniela Rossella (University of Potenza) on the designs of the stage and costumes of 19th-century operas with oriental themes. Emilio is a composer himself. I do have a tape with music composed by him somewhere but do not have the necessary equipment anymore. It was a fascinating paper with many slides of original drawings from the 19th century. I do not know if the paper has already been published, but hope it will. The most recent email address of Emilio (and Daniela) I have is ghezziem at tin.it. Best, Herman Herman Tieken Stationsweg 58 2515 BP Den Haag The Netherlands 00 31 (0)70 2208127 website: hermantieken.com ________________________________ Van: INDOLOGY [indology-bounces at list.indology.info] namens Matthew Kapstein via INDOLOGY [indology at list.indology.info] Verzonden: woensdag 30 oktober 2019 9:15 Aan: alakendu das CC: indology at list.indology.info Onderwerp: Re: [INDOLOGY] Sanskrit drama in La Belle ?poque Dear Alakendu, There are several English translations. The best known is perhaps the "Little Clay Cart" of the American Sanskritist Arthur Ryder, first published in 1905. cordially, Matthew Matthew Kapstein Directeur d'?tudes, Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes Numata Visiting Professor of Buddhist Studies, The University of Chicago ________________________________ From: mailmealakendudas at rediffmail.com on behalf of alakendu das Sent: Wednesday, October 30, 2019 2:16 AM To: Matthew Kapstein Cc: indology at list.indology.info Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] Sanskrit drama in La Belle ?poque Dr.Kapstein, I rue that I saw this post so late.It's indeed awe-inspiring.! I feel there exists an English version of MrchhaKatikam, namely The Clay Cart.I shall confirm it. Alakendu Das Sent from RediffmailNG on Android From: Matthew Kapstein via INDOLOGY Sent: Sat, 26 Oct 2019 18:09:29 GMT+0530 To: "indology at list.indology.info" Subject: [INDOLOGY] Sanskrit drama in La Belle ?poque Dear Indologists, You may find this to be amusing. Visiting the huge exhibition of the works of Toulouse-Lautrec currently on view at the Grand Palais in Paris, I was surprised to find, amidst his many posters for theater and cabaret, the one I include here, for a production of the M?cchaka?ik?, - the title is even given in devanagari at lower right. If you read carefully, you'll see that TL himself is credited with the sets for the fifth act, though I do not know if any trace of these survives, or if it was photographed. They must have been wonderful! [cid:1.1572419785 at web.rediffmail.com] Matthew Kapstein Directeur d'?tudes, Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes Numata Visiting Professor of Buddhist Studies, The University of Chicago _______________________________________________ INDOLOGY mailing list INDOLOGY at list.indology.info indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: IMG_1488.JPG Type: image/jpeg Size: 2344207 bytes Desc: not available URL: From mailmealakendudas at rediffmail.com Wed Oct 30 08:49:39 2019 From: mailmealakendudas at rediffmail.com (alakendu das) Date: Wed, 30 Oct 19 08:49:39 +0000 Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_[INDOLOGY]_Sanskrit_drama_in_La_Belle_=C3=89poque?= Message-ID: <1572424604.S.3198856.1774.f5-147-236.1572425379.20031@webmail.rediffmail.com> Thank you very much.Alakendu Das. Sent from RediffmailNG on Android From: Matthew Kapstein <mkapstei at uchicago.edu> Sent: Wed, 30 Oct 2019 14:06:44 GMT+0530 To: "Tieken, H.J.H." <H.J.H.Tieken at hum.leidenuniv.nl>, alakendu das <mailmealakendudas at rediffmail.com> Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] Sanskrit drama in La Belle ?poque Dear Herman, Thanks a lot for this interesting reference. There is of course a tremendous amount of 19th-century European theatre, opera, poetry, painting with oriental themes - it's a very big topic and has been the object of much research. But it is not so much my area, though I am interested - I posted the Toulouse-Lautrec to the list just as an amusing curiosity and not in connection with any academic project that I am undertaking. best regards, Matthew Matthew Kapstein Directeur d'?tudes, Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes Numata Visiting Professor of Buddhist Studies, The University of Chicago From: Tieken, H.J.H. <H.J.H.Tieken at hum.leidenuniv.nl> Sent: Wednesday, October 30, 2019 3:29 AM To: Matthew Kapstein <mkapstei at uchicago.edu>; alakendu das <mailmealakendudas at rediffmail.com> Cc: indology at list.indology.info <INDOLOGY at list.indology.info> Subject: RE: [INDOLOGY] Sanskrit drama in La Belle ?poque   Dear Matthew, Some years ago I attended a paper delivered by Emilio Ghezzi, the partner of our colleague Daniela Rossella (University of Potenza) on the designs of the stage and costumes of 19th-century operas with oriental themes. Emilio is a composer himself. I do have a tape with music composed by him somewhere but do not have the necessary equipment anymore. It was a fascinating paper with many slides of original drawings from the 19th century. I do not know if the paper has already been published, but hope it will. The most recent email address of Emilio (and Daniela) I have is ghezziem at tin.it. Best, Herman Herman Tieken Stationsweg 58 2515 BP Den Haag The Netherlands 00 31 (0)70 2208127 website: hermantieken.com Van: INDOLOGY [indology-bounces at list.indology.info] namens Matthew Kapstein via INDOLOGY [indology at list.indology.info] Verzonden: woensdag 30 oktober 2019 9:15 Aan: alakendu das CC: indology at list.indology.info Onderwerp: Re: [INDOLOGY] Sanskrit drama in La Belle ?poque Dear Alakendu, There are several English translations. The best known is perhaps the "Little Clay Cart" of the American Sanskritist Arthur Ryder, first published in 1905. cordially, Matthew Matthew Kapstein Directeur d'?tudes, Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes Numata Visiting Professor of Buddhist Studies, The University of Chicago From: mailmealakendudas at rediffmail.com <mailmealakendudas at rediffmail.com> on behalf of alakendu das <mailmealakendudas at rediffmail.com> Sent: Wednesday, October 30, 2019 2:16 AM To: Matthew Kapstein <mkapstei at uchicago.edu> Cc: indology at list.indology.info <INDOLOGY at list.indology.info> Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] Sanskrit drama in La Belle ?poque   Dr.Kapstein, I rue that I saw this post so late.It's indeed awe-inspiring.! I feel there exists an English version of MrchhaKatikam, namely The Clay Cart.I shall confirm it. Alakendu Das  Sent from RediffmailNG on Android From: Matthew Kapstein via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info> Sent: Sat, 26 Oct 2019 18:09:29 GMT+0530 To: "indology at list.indology.info" <INDOLOGY at list.indology.info> Subject: [INDOLOGY] Sanskrit drama in La Belle ?poque Dear Indologists, You may find this to be amusing. Visiting the huge exhibition of the works of Toulouse-Lautrec currently on view at the Grand Palais in Paris, I was surprised to find, amidst his many posters for theater and cabaret, the one I include here, for a production of the M?cchaka?ik?, - the title is even given in devanagari at lower right. If you read carefully, you'll see that TL himself is credited with the sets for the fifth act, though I do not know if any trace of these survives, or if it was photographed. They must have been wonderful! Matthew Kapstein Directeur d'?tudes, Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes Numata Visiting Professor of Buddhist Studies, The University of Chicago _______________________________________________ INDOLOGY mailing list INDOLOGY at list.indology.info indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: IMG_1488.JPG Type: image/jpeg Size: 2344207 bytes Desc: not available URL: From wujastyk at gmail.com Wed Oct 30 22:25:53 2019 From: wujastyk at gmail.com (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Wed, 30 Oct 19 16:25:53 -0600 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Manuscripts from Nagaur? Message-ID: For many years I have been trying to get a copy of a manuscript from the Bhattarakiya (Digambar Jain) Granth Bhandar in Nagaur. Catalogue PDF (incomplete). I never had any answer to letters (in English or Sanskrit). Does anyone in this forum have connections with this Nagaur library? I am also pursuing this enquiry separately through a friend at the Gyanmandir in Koba. Best, Dominik -- Professor Dominik Wujastyk , Singhmar Chair in Classical Indian Society and Polity , Department of History and Classics , University of Alberta, Canada . South Asia at the U of A: sas.ualberta.ca -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From vjroebuck at btinternet.com Thu Oct 31 10:27:04 2019 From: vjroebuck at btinternet.com (Valerie Roebuck) Date: Thu, 31 Oct 19 10:27:04 +0000 Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_[INDOLOGY]_Sanskrit_drama_in_La_Belle_=C3=89poque?= In-Reply-To: <1572424604.S.3198856.1774.f5-147-236.1572425379.20031@webmail.rediffmail.com> Message-ID: <218D1038-A98E-4008-BEC3-E089410823EE@btinternet.com> Dear Matthew and Colleagues Will it be OK for me to share the designs and information with a Facebook group on the art of illustration? I think they will be fascinated. Thank you - Valerie J Roebuck Manchester, UK > On 30 Oct 2019, at 08:49, alakendu das via INDOLOGY wrote: > > Thank you very much. > Alakendu Das. > > Sent from RediffmailNG on Android > > > > > From: Matthew Kapstein > > Sent: Wed, 30 Oct 2019 14:06:44 GMT+0530 > To: "Tieken, H.J.H." >, alakendu das > > Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] Sanskrit drama in La Belle ?poque > > Dear Herman, > > Thanks a lot for this interesting reference. There is of course a tremendous amount of 19th-century European theatre, opera, poetry, painting with oriental themes - it's a very big topic and has been the object of much research. But it is not so much my area, though I am interested - I posted the Toulouse-Lautrec to the list just as an amusing curiosity and not in connection with any academic project that I am undertaking. > > best regards, > Matthew > > Matthew Kapstein > Directeur d'?tudes, > Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes > > Numata Visiting Professor of Buddhist Studies, > The University of Chicago > From: Tieken, H.J.H. > > Sent: Wednesday, October 30, 2019 3:29 AM > To: Matthew Kapstein >; alakendu das > > Cc: indology at list.indology.info > > Subject: RE: [INDOLOGY] Sanskrit drama in La Belle ?poque > > Dear Matthew, Some years ago I attended a paper delivered by Emilio Ghezzi, the partner of our colleague Daniela Rossella (University of Potenza) on the designs of the stage and costumes of 19th-century operas with oriental themes. Emilio is a composer himself. I do have a tape with music composed by him somewhere but do not have the necessary equipment anymore. It was a fascinating paper with many slides of original drawings from the 19th century. I do not know if the paper has already been published, but hope it will. > The most recent email address of Emilio (and Daniela) I have is ghezziem at tin.it . > Best, Herman > > Herman Tieken > Stationsweg 58 > 2515 BP Den Haag > The Netherlands > 00 31 (0)70 2208127 > website: hermantieken.com > Van: INDOLOGY [indology-bounces at list.indology.info ] namens Matthew Kapstein via INDOLOGY [indology at list.indology.info ] > Verzonden: woensdag 30 oktober 2019 9:15 > Aan: alakendu das > CC: indology at list.indology.info > Onderwerp: Re: [INDOLOGY] Sanskrit drama in La Belle ?poque > > Dear Alakendu, > > There are several English translations. The best known is perhaps the "Little Clay Cart" of the American Sanskritist Arthur Ryder, first published in 1905. > > cordially, > Matthew > > Matthew Kapstein > Directeur d'?tudes, > Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes > > Numata Visiting Professor of Buddhist Studies, > The University of Chicago > From: mailmealakendudas at rediffmail.com on behalf of alakendu das > Sent: Wednesday, October 30, 2019 2:16 AM > To: Matthew Kapstein > Cc: indology at list.indology.info > Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] Sanskrit drama in La Belle ?poque > > Dr.Kapstein, > I rue that I saw this post so late.It 's indeed awe-inspiring.! I feel there exists an English version of MrchhaKatikam, namely The Clay Cart.I shall confirm it. > Alakendu Das > > Sent from RediffmailNG on Android > > > > > From: Matthew Kapstein via INDOLOGY > Sent: Sat, 26 Oct 2019 18:09:29 GMT+0530 > To: "indology at list.indology.info" > Subject: [INDOLOGY] Sanskrit drama in La Belle ?poque > > Dear Indologists, > > You may find this to be amusing. > > Visiting the huge exhibition of the works of Toulouse-Lautrec currently on view at the Grand Palais in Paris, I was surprised to find, amidst his many posters for theater and cabaret, the one I include here, for a production of the > M?cchaka?ik?, - the title is even given in devanagari at lower right. If you read carefully, you'll see that TL himself is credited with the sets for the fifth act, though I do not know if any trace of these survives, or if it was photographed. They must have been wonderful! > > > > Matthew Kapstein > Directeur d'?tudes, > Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes > > Numata Visiting Professor of Buddhist Studies, > The University of Chicago > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) > > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mkapstei at uchicago.edu Thu Oct 31 10:29:05 2019 From: mkapstei at uchicago.edu (Matthew Kapstein) Date: Thu, 31 Oct 19 10:29:05 +0000 Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_[INDOLOGY]_Sanskrit_drama_in_La_Belle_=C3=89poque?= In-Reply-To: <218D1038-A98E-4008-BEC3-E089410823EE@btinternet.com> Message-ID: Hi Valerie, It's ok with me if you re-poste, though I'd appreciate a credit for the photo. best, Matthew Matthew Kapstein Directeur d'?tudes, Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes Numata Visiting Professor of Buddhist Studies, The University of Chicago ________________________________ From: Valerie Roebuck Sent: Thursday, October 31, 2019 5:27 AM To: alakendu das Cc: Matthew Kapstein ; indology List List Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] Sanskrit drama in La Belle ?poque Dear Matthew and Colleagues Will it be OK for me to share the designs and information with a Facebook group on the art of illustration? I think they will be fascinated. Thank you - Valerie J Roebuck Manchester, UK On 30 Oct 2019, at 08:49, alakendu das via INDOLOGY > wrote: Thank you very much. Alakendu Das. Sent from RediffmailNG on Android From: Matthew Kapstein > Sent: Wed, 30 Oct 2019 14:06:44 GMT+0530 To: "Tieken, H.J.H." >, alakendu das > Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] Sanskrit drama in La Belle ?poque Dear Herman, Thanks a lot for this interesting reference. There is of course a tremendous amount of 19th-century European theatre, opera, poetry, painting with oriental themes - it's a very big topic and has been the object of much research. But it is not so much my area, though I am interested - I posted the Toulouse-Lautrec to the list just as an amusing curiosity and not in connection with any academic project that I am undertaking. best regards, Matthew Matthew Kapstein Directeur d'?tudes, Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes Numata Visiting Professor of Buddhist Studies, The University of Chicago ________________________________ From: Tieken, H.J.H. > Sent: Wednesday, October 30, 2019 3:29 AM To: Matthew Kapstein >; alakendu das > Cc: indology at list.indology.info > Subject: RE: [INDOLOGY] Sanskrit drama in La Belle ?poque Dear Matthew, Some years ago I attended a paper delivered by Emilio Ghezzi, the partner of our colleague Daniela Rossella (University of Potenza) on the designs of the stage and costumes of 19th-century operas with oriental themes. Emilio is a composer himself. I do have a tape with music composed by him somewhere but do not have the necessary equipment anymore. It was a fascinating paper with many slides of original drawings from the 19th century. I do not know if the paper has already been published, but hope it will. The most recent email address of Emilio (and Daniela) I have is ghezziem at tin.it. Best, Herman Herman Tieken Stationsweg 58 2515 BP Den Haag The Netherlands 00 31 (0)70 2208127 website: hermantieken.com ________________________________ Van: INDOLOGY [indology-bounces at list.indology.info] namens Matthew Kapstein via INDOLOGY [indology at list.indology.info] Verzonden: woensdag 30 oktober 2019 9:15 Aan: alakendu das CC: indology at list.indology.info Onderwerp: Re: [INDOLOGY] Sanskrit drama in La Belle ?poque Dear Alakendu, There are several English translations. The best known is perhaps the "Little Clay Cart" of the American Sanskritist Arthur Ryder, first published in 1905. cordially, Matthew Matthew Kapstein Directeur d'?tudes, Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes Numata Visiting Professor of Buddhist Studies, The University of Chicago ________________________________ From: mailmealakendudas at rediffmail.com > on behalf of alakendu das > Sent: Wednesday, October 30, 2019 2:16 AM To: Matthew Kapstein > Cc: indology at list.indology.info > Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] Sanskrit drama in La Belle ?poque Dr.Kapstein, I rue that I saw this post so late.It's indeed awe-inspiring.! I feel there exists an English version of MrchhaKatikam, namely The Clay Cart.I shall confirm it. Alakendu Das Sent from RediffmailNG on Android From: Matthew Kapstein via INDOLOGY > Sent: Sat, 26 Oct 2019 18:09:29 GMT+0530 To: "indology at list.indology.info" > Subject: [INDOLOGY] Sanskrit drama in La Belle ?poque Dear Indologists, You may find this to be amusing. Visiting the huge exhibition of the works of Toulouse-Lautrec currently on view at the Grand Palais in Paris, I was surprised to find, amidst his many posters for theater and cabaret, the one I include here, for a production of the M?cchaka?ik?, - the title is even given in devanagari at lower right. If you read carefully, you'll see that TL himself is credited with the sets for the fifth act, though I do not know if any trace of these survives, or if it was photographed. They must have been wonderful! Matthew Kapstein Directeur d'?tudes, Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes Numata Visiting Professor of Buddhist Studies, The University of Chicago _______________________________________________ INDOLOGY mailing list INDOLOGY at list.indology.info indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) _______________________________________________ INDOLOGY mailing list INDOLOGY at list.indology.info indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From paoloe.rosati at gmail.com Thu Oct 31 14:51:48 2019 From: paoloe.rosati at gmail.com (Paolo Eugenio Rosati) Date: Thu, 31 Oct 19 15:51:48 +0100 Subject: [INDOLOGY] CfP: XXII Quinquennial Conference of the IAHR (New Zealand 2020) Message-ID: Dear all, please consider submitting a title and an abstract for the XXII conference of the *International Association for the History of Religions*, which will be held at University of Otago (Dunedin, New Zealand), 23-29 August 2020. *Title of the Panel: *Tantra, Shamanism, and Magic: Experiences, Practices, and Practitioners at the ?Margins? of the Indic World *Convenors:* Andrea Acri (EPHE, Paris) and Paolo E. Rosati (Independent scholar) *Email:* paoloe.rosati at gmail.com / andrea.acri at ephe.psl.eu *Deadline:* 5 December 2020 *Abstract:* Tantra, since the middle of the first millennium CE when it made its first step in the Brahmanic religious folds, challenged the dualistic view of the cosmos as an opposition between purity and impurity. Through its ritual violation and subversion of what was perceived as orthopraxy by the mainstream religions in many regions of Asia, Tantra emerged as a source of power, which was closely related to the milieux at the ?margins? of Indic mainstream religions. Through a multidisciplinary approach, this panel aims to shed light on experiences, practices and practitioners which have been frequently alienated by the mainstream Indic religions across South and Southeast Asia. Particular attention will be paid to the cross- and trans- cultural dialectic between mainstream, tantric, and intersecting magic-shamanic ?marginal? phenomena across history and geography, and their instantiations in textual corpora, myths, folk and oral traditions, visual and performative arts, rituals, and festivals. Please email to paoloe.rosati at gmail.com (cc to andrea.acri at ephe.psl.eu) your *name*, *position*, a *title*, a *long abstract* (500 words), a *short abstract* (max 150 words), which in case of acceptance will be included in the panel proposal, and a short CV (max. 2 pages) with your academic experiences (paper presentations, publications, academic degrees, etc.) *by 5 December 2020*. Feel free to circulate this CfP. Sincerely, Paolo -- *Paolo E. Rosati* *PhD in Asian and African Studies(South Asia Section)Italian Institute of Oriental Studies 'Sapienza' University of Rome* *https://uniroma1.academia.edu/PaoloRosati/ * paoloe.rosati at gmail.com Mobile/Whatsapp: (+39) 338 73 83 472 Skype: paoloe.rosati Mail priva di virus. www.avast.com <#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2> -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: CFP_IAHR.pdf Type: application/pdf Size: 293232 bytes Desc: not available URL: From mmdesh at umich.edu Thu Oct 31 17:20:50 2019 From: mmdesh at umich.edu (Madhav Deshpande) Date: Thu, 31 Oct 19 10:20:50 -0700 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Some questions on Alphabet in Lalitavistara Message-ID: Dear Colleagues, As I have been reading the Lipi??l?sandar?ana-Parivarta [p. 89, P. L. Vaidya edition], some interesting features of the alphabet popped up for me. The Alphabet omits *r?* and *l?*, but includes *ai, au*, and *a?*. Among the consonants, it adds *k? *at the end after *h*. The version of this passage as given in the Bauddh?gam?rthasa?graha [ed by P. L. Vaidya] also omits *l*, while it is included in the version of Lalitavistara edited by Vaidya himself. I wonder if there are textual variants about this. I don't know what this alphabet represents. The omission of *r? *and *l? *goes along the phonologies of Prakrits, but the inclusion of *ai, au*, and *a?* goes in the direction of Sanskrit. The addition of *k? *and the possible omission of *l *point to something else that I cannot figure out. Any suggestions and references are welcome. Madhav M. Deshpande Professor Emeritus, Sanskrit and Linguistics University of Michigan, Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA Senior Fellow, Oxford Center for Hindu Studies [Residence: Campbell, California, USA] -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mmdesh at umich.edu Thu Oct 31 17:24:36 2019 From: mmdesh at umich.edu (Madhav Deshpande) Date: Thu, 31 Oct 19 10:24:36 -0700 Subject: [INDOLOGY] The alphabet found in the Lalitavistara Message-ID: Dear Colleagues, As I have been reading the Lipi??l?sandar?ana-Parivarta of the Lalitavistara [p. 89, P. L. Vaidya edition], some interesting features of the alphabet popped up for me. The Alphabet omits *r?* and *l?*, but includes *ai, au*, and *a?*. Among the consonants, it adds *k? *at the end after *h*. The version of this passage as given in the Bauddh?gam?rthasa?graha [ed by P. L. Vaidya] also omits *l*, while it is included in the version of Lalitavistara edited by Vaidya himself. I wonder if there are textual variants about this. I don't know what this alphabet represents. The omission of *r? *and *l? *goes along the phonologies of Prakrits, but the inclusion of *ai, au*, and *a?* goes in the direction of Sanskrit. The addition of *k? *and the possible omission of *l *point to something else that I cannot figure out. Any suggestions and references are welcome. Madhav M. Deshpande Professor Emeritus, Sanskrit and Linguistics University of Michigan, Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA Senior Fellow, Oxford Center for Hindu Studies [Residence: Campbell, California, USA] -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mkapstei at uchicago.edu Thu Oct 31 17:52:47 2019 From: mkapstei at uchicago.edu (Matthew Kapstein) Date: Thu, 31 Oct 19 17:52:47 +0000 Subject: [INDOLOGY] The alphabet found in the Lalitavistara In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Dear Madhav, No doubt text editorial issues are part of what is at issue, as well as the mix of Sanskrit and Prakrit elements informing BHS. For what it's worth, I note that when the alphabet is recited as a purificatory mantra in tantric contexts in Newar and Tibetan Buddhism, all the vowels and semivowels are included, and kSa is added at the end following Ha. My hunch is that this perhaps originated due to the distinct graphic form in some scripts and so departs from the phonological principle of alphabetic order, but that's really only a guess. best, Matthew Matthew Kapstein Directeur d'?tudes, Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes Numata Visiting Professor of Buddhist Studies, The University of Chicago ________________________________ From: INDOLOGY on behalf of Madhav Deshpande via INDOLOGY Sent: Thursday, October 31, 2019 12:24 PM To: Indology ; Bharatiya Vidvat parishad Subject: [INDOLOGY] The alphabet found in the Lalitavistara Dear Colleagues, As I have been reading the Lipi??l?sandar?ana-Parivarta of the Lalitavistara [p. 89, P. L. Vaidya edition], some interesting features of the alphabet popped up for me. The Alphabet omits r? and l?, but includes ai, au, and a?. Among the consonants, it adds k? at the end after h. The version of this passage as given in the Bauddh?gam?rthasa?graha [ed by P. L. Vaidya] also omits l, while it is included in the version of Lalitavistara edited by Vaidya himself. I wonder if there are textual variants about this. I don't know what this alphabet represents. The omission of r? and l? goes along the phonologies of Prakrits, but the inclusion of ai, au, and a? goes in the direction of Sanskrit. The addition of k? and the possible omission of l point to something else that I cannot figure out. Any suggestions and references are welcome. Madhav M. Deshpande Professor Emeritus, Sanskrit and Linguistics University of Michigan, Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA Senior Fellow, Oxford Center for Hindu Studies [Residence: Campbell, California, USA] -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From manufrancis at gmail.com Thu Oct 31 18:45:28 2019 From: manufrancis at gmail.com (Manu Francis) Date: Thu, 31 Oct 19 19:45:28 +0100 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Eye-copy of an inscription in Paris BnF Message-ID: Dear colleagues, In the framework of the TST project (https://tst.hypotheses.org/) I have started to examine rubbings and eye-copies of inscriptions kept at the BnF in Paris. Among these is the item ?Indien 720?, for which we have the following description: https://archivesetmanuscrits.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/cc1046846 It appears to be a scale eye-copy of a Sanskrit inscription (which would be in very big letters if it is indeed a scale reproduction, as the sheet is 200 x 95 mm). >From the annotation on the sheet I gather that the inscription was discovered in 1817 by a certain Franklin Lewis Cole (if I read correctly) and the eye-copy made later, as the sheet is made with several sheets having the watermark ?B&T SWEETAPPLE 1829?. And there is a label ?R.B. N? 52 1833? which refers to a collection (maybe Regis Bibliotheca, that is the BnF name, I suppose, during the ?Monarchie de Juillet?). Here are some pictures: https://www.dropbox.com/sh/75llbwcb8g4o39g/AADBNZwm_P0Z4XzfREHlqrvTa?dl=0 Could any knowledgeable people among you enlighten me about this inscription? Especially concerning the placenames mentioned, Franklin Lewis Cole, and any reference to a publication. With a great many thanks in advance for any clue. With very best wishes. Emmanuel FRANCIS Charg? de recherche CNRS, Centre d'?tudes de l'Inde et de l'Asie du Sud (UMR 8564, EHESS-CNRS, Paris) Online CV HAL Regionalism & Cosmopolitism: South India Associate member, Centre for the Study of Manuscript Culture (SFB 950, Universit?t Hamburg) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: