Re: [INDOLOGY] Meaning of वाक

[Veeranarayana Pandurangi]

Dear  Friends, Thanks for positive reply.

however I am concerned that while the translations and interpretations
largely concentrate upon words rather than intention.

for example this translation by Ludwig



“by the *gâyatra*-metre he measures the *arka*,

by the *arka* the *sâma*, by the *trišṭubh*-metre the *vâka* |

by the *vâka*, that has two feet, the *vâka* that has four (read:
*catušpadam*);

by the mora he measures the seven modes of singing || 24 ||”



is largely based on Sayana  who is about measuring. परिच्छिनत्ति or संमितान्
करोति is the word.



how one is measuring arka by gayatri metre? what arka? how measuring sama
by arka? how can one measure vaka by tristubh metre? which two feet vaka?
which four feet vaka? by what mora which seven seven modes of singing?

how prati mimite relates to measuring?



Houben’s translation of 1.164.24 too suffers from same problem-



With gayatri (line) one makes the song of praise (arka): with the song of
praise a chant, with the tristubh (line) the recitation. With the two and
four lined recitation (one makes again a larger) recitation; according to
the SYLLABLE they make the sven VOICES



Why and how gayatri line alone is making a song of praise? Why other metre
lines are not doing this? Why one making chant by full arka rather than a
simple line? Why recitation is made by tristubh lines and not other lines?
What kind of recitation is this? Recitions can be made of even a sentence
without metre. Why making a larger recitation only by two and four lined
recitations? Why not with three five six or hundred line recitations? Why
“according” is added here when it is not understood in previous lines? What
are the seven voices? (this is guessed as voices belonging to seven
priests) why one seven voices? Not hundred voices? (Even a single voice too
made according to syllable)



How prati mimite refers to “make”

There are somany uses of prati mi (ma)

किं स ऋधक्कृणवद्यं सहस्रं मासो जभार शरदश्च पूर्वीः । *नही न्वस्य
प्रतिमानमस्त्यन्तर्जातेषूत ये जनित्वाः *॥४,०१८.०४ इति, प्र तुविद्युम्नस्य
स्थविरस्य घृष्वेर्दिवो ररप्शे महिमा पृथिव्याः । *नास्य शत्रुर्न
प्रतिमानमस्ति न प्रतिष्ठिः *पुरुमायस्य सह्योः ॥६,०१८.१२ त्वमस्य पारे रजसो
व्योमनः स्वभूत्योजा अवसे धृषन्मनः । चकृषे भूमिं प्रतिमानमोजसोऽपः स्वः
परिभूरेष्या दिवम् ॥ त्वं भुवः प्रतिमानं पृथिव्या ऋष्ववीरस्य बृहतः पतिर्भूः
। विश्वमाप्रा अन्तरिक्षं महित्वा सत्यमद्धा नकिरन्यस्त्वावान् ॥१,०५२.
१२-१३  गोजिता
बाहू अमितक्रतुः सिमः कर्मन्कर्मञ्छतमूतिः खजङ्करः । अकल्प इन्द्रः
प्रतिमानमोजसाथा जना वि ह्वयन्ते सिषासवः ॥ १,१०२.०६  त्रिविष्टिधातु
प्रतिमानमोजसस्तिस्रो भूमीर्नृपते त्रीणि रोचना । अतीदं विश्वं भुवनं
ववक्षिथाशत्रुरिन्द्र जनुषा सनादसि ॥१,१०२.०८  यो विश्वस्य प्रतिमानं बभूव यो
अच्युतच्युत्स जनास इन्द्रः ॥२,०१२.०९  आपान्तमन्युस्तृपलप्रभर्मा धुनिः
शिमीवाञ्छरुमां ऋजीषी । सोमो विश्वान्यतसा वनानि नार्वागिन्द्रं प्रतिमानानि
देभुः ॥ (१०,०८९.०५) न अर्वाक् इन्द्रम् प्रतिमानानि दभ्नुवन्ति, यैर् एनम्
प्रतिमिमते न एनम् तानि दभ्नुवन्त्य् अर्वाक् एव एनम् अप्राप्य विनश्यन्ति इति
निरुक्तम्।  इन्द्रो दिवः प्रतिमानं पृथिव्या विश्वा वेद सवना हन्ति शुष्णम् ।
महीं चिद्द्यामातनोत्सूर्येण चास्कम्भ चित्कम्भनेन स्कभीयान् ॥ (१०,१११.०५)
स्तुषेय्यं पुरुवर्पसमृभ्वमिनतममाप्त्यमाप्त्यानाम् । आ दर्षते शवसा सप्त
दानून्प्र साक्षते प्रतिमानानि भूरि ॥ (१०,१२०.०६) वि सूर्यो मध्ये अमुचद्रथं
दिवो विदद्दासाय प्रतिमानमार्यः । दृळ्हानि पिप्रोरसुरस्य मायिन इन्द्रो
व्यास्यच्चकृवां ऋजिश्वना ॥ (१०,१३८.०३)

Why aksara means syllable? When it is used in different meaning in same
context ऋचो अक्षरे परमे व्योमन्यस्मिन्देवा अधि विश्वे निषेदुः । यस्तन्न वेद
किमृचा करिष्यति य इत्तद्विदुस्त इमे समासते ॥ (१,१६४.३९) This mantra
apparently does not refer to Syllable, because a person who does not know
syllable can not know Rk. Then what is the fun of censuring such a person
“what one will do with Rks if he does not know syllable”

How those who know Aksara sit comfortably? Everybody knows syllables. What
is speciality of this Syllable?



Again the translation of 1.164.23 by Houben raises this question--

“That the  Gayatri (line) is based on the Gayatri (hymn) (the smaller on
the larger unit, rather than the other way round), and that the Tristubh
(line) is fashioned of Tristubh (hymn) and that the Jagati LINE is based on
the Jagati (hymn): only those who know this have attained immortality”

Why only three metres are quoted here? When the concept is that smaller
part is derived from larger.  Why Pada means only line and not anything
line  तद्विष्णोः परमं पदं सदा पश्यन्ति सूरयः ।  दिवीव चक्षुराततम् ॥ १,०२२.२०
 तद्विप्रासो विपन्यवो जागृवांसः समिन्धते । विष्णोर्यत्परमं पदम् ॥ १,०२२.२१

The bigger questione is How one attains amrtatva by knowing this base of
hymns?
Jamison translation is same as Houben. It does not make much sense.

I have revieved Jamison on 1.154  in the link
https://www.academia.edu/39520019/VISNU_SUKTA_1.154_A_Review_of_Commentaries_and_New_Translation_of_Rgvedas



Translation should be meant to convey the inner meaning rather than word to
word measurement which has pierced all the translations of Rgveda so far.


*Please let me know if there are any credible interpretations available
anywhere*

 thanks again for kindling interest in your translations

On Thu, Jul 25, 2019 at 11:33 PM Dominik Wujastyk <wujastyk at gmail.com>
wrote:

> Here is the most recent wrestling with this difficult riddle hymn by
> Brereton and Jamieson (PDF attached).
>
> The online commentary (http://rigvedacommentary.alc.ucla.edu/?page_id=11)
> does not cover 1.164, which looks as if it is waiting for material from
> Joel.
>
> Best,
> Dominik
>
> --
> Professor Dominik Wujastyk <http://ualberta.academia.edu/DominikWujastyk>
> ,
>
> Singhmar Chair in Classical Indian Society and Polity
> ,
>
> Department of History and Classics
> <http://historyandclassics.ualberta.ca/>
> ,
> University of Alberta, Canada
> .
>
> South Asia at the U of A:
>
> sas.ualberta.ca
>
>
>

-- 
Veeranarayana N.K. Pandurangi
Dean, Faculty of Vedanta,
Karnakata Samskrita University,
Pampa Mahakavi Road,
Chamarajpet, Bengaluru.


अथ चेत्त्वमिमं धर्म्यं संग्रामं न करिष्यसि। ततः स्वधर्मं कीर्तिं च हित्वा
पापमवाप्स्यसि।।
तस्मादुत्तिष्ठ कौन्तेय युद्धाय कृतनिश्चयः। निराशीर्निर्ममो भूत्वा युध्यस्व
विगतज्वरः।। (भ.गी.)

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