[INDOLOGY] Sanskrit can tackle climate change

Tue Sep 11 17:39:18 UTC 2018

Dear Camillo,

> Still, Sanskrit can only *help* tackle, and not directly tackle climate
change. Or am I wrong and 'Sanskrit literature and the ideas contained
> therein' can tackle climate change? I thought only mankind can tackle it
directly, but you are telling me I'm wrong.

Yes, I agree fully, Sanskrit (literature and the ideas contained therein)
can *help* tackle, and not directly tackle, issues such as climate change
ni which a larger perspective is useful.

To make it clear, in spite of the context I tried to give in my initial
mail (which I still think is the aspect we *should* be focussing on to make
this debate fruitful!), I do NOT think that the sentence

'Sanskrit can tackle climate change'

can meaningfully be used as phrased.

All the best,
   Antonia

On Tue, 11 Sep 2018 at 18:27, Camillo Formigatti <
camillo.formigatti at bodleian.ox.ac.uk> wrote:

> Still, Sanskrit can only *help* tackle, and not directly tackle climate
> change. Or am I wrong and 'Sanskrit literature and the ideas contained
> therein' can tackle climate change? I thought only mankind can tackle it
> directly, but you are telling me I'm wrong.
>
> Sent from my Xperia by Sony smartphone
>
>
> ---- Antonia Ruppel wrote ----
>
> In isolation, the sentence
>
> 'Sanskrit can tackle climate change'
>
> is like the sentence
>
> 'Doctors named Brian can prescribe antibiotics'
>
> The latter makes it sound as though it was something about specifically
> doctors of this name that could do this, rather than just doctors in
> general. The former makes it sound as though this was a property
> specifically of Sanskrit, whereas it is a property of all literary cultures
> - and I pointed out that by 'Sanskrit', we can only mean 'Sanskrit
> literature and the ideas contained therein' rather than the Sanskrit
> language.
>
> In Indian English, I often hear 'Sanskrit' used to mean exactly 'Sanskrit
> literature and the ideas contained therein'. It would be more helpful to
> reserve a term like Sanskriti for this even in English, and use Sanskrit
> (< saMskRt*a*-), for just the language. Otherwise it sounds as though we,
> either mistakenly or intentionally, assign properties to the Sanskrit
> language that it, as beautiful as it is, does not have.
>
> All the best,
>     Antonia
>
>
>
> On Tue, 11 Sep 2018 at 18:08, Camillo Formigatti via INDOLOGY <
> indology at list.indology.info> wrote:
>
>> Dear Nagaraj,
>>
>>
>>
>> I beg to differ. I quote from Dr Ruppel’s answer:
>>
>> “What is needed to tackle climate change is for people to live
>> moderately and treat their environment (human and non-human) with respect,
>> and for companies to do that even more so. […] *Sanskrit - the language
>> - cannot help us with that. Sanskrit literature, and many other literatures
>> and literary cultures all over the world,* present us with us with
>> centuries and sometimes even millennia of careful thoughts on how to live
>> happily without greed and with respect for others. There are many texts
>> that furthermore encourage careful inquiry, i.e. the kind that is the
>> necessary basis of climatological research. As such, knowledge of (some of)
>> the thoughts presented to us by Sanskrit literature can indeed help us with
>> climate change, as it can with many other aspects of our modern lives.”
>> [emphasis mine]
>>
>> Bottom line, Sanskrit as a language cannot help us with climate change
>> and some ideas expressed in Sanskrit literature, as well as in “many other
>> literatures and literary cultures all over the world”, can help humankind
>> in tackling climate change. This means that Sanskrit itself and not even
>> Sanskrit literature can tackle climate change, as much as Henry David
>> Thoreau’s books cannot either, because “[w]hat is needed to tackle climate
>> change is for people to live moderately and treat their environment (human
>> and non-human) with respect”, and not simply read Sanskrit texts.
>>
>> Again, am I wrong in this interpretation?
>>
>> Best wishes,
>>
>>
>> Camillo
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>>
>>
>> Dr Camillo A. Formigatti
>>
>> John Clay Sanskrit Librarian
>>
>>
>>
>> Bodleian Libraries
>>
>> The Weston Library
>>
>> Broad Street, Oxford
>>
>> OX1 3BG
>>
>>
>>
>> Email: camillo.formigatti at bodleian.ox.ac.uk
>>
>> Tel. (office): 01865 (2)77208
>> www.bodleian.ox.ac.uk
>>
>>
>>
>> *GROW YOUR MIND*
>>
>> in Oxford University’s
>>
>> Gardens, Libraries and Museums
>>
>> www.mindgrowing.org
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Nagaraj Paturi <nagarajpaturi at gmail.com>
>> *Sent:* 11 September 2018 17:23
>> *To:* Camillo Formigatti <camillo.formigatti at bodleian.ox.ac.uk>
>> *Cc:* Indology <INDOLOGY at list.indology.info>
>> *Subject:* Re: [INDOLOGY] Sanskrit can tackle climate change
>>
>>
>>
>> Prof. Antonia Ruppel -ji was very clear in saying that texts in Sanskrit
>> can help human kind to tackle climate change. In that sense, Sanskrit can
>> tackle climate change.
>>
>>
>>
>> can not ' was not used by her alongside Sanskrit.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Sep 11, 2018, 9:45 PM Camillo Formigatti via INDOLOGY <
>> indology at list.indology.info> wrote:
>>
>> Dear Colleagues,
>>
>>
>>
>> Many thanks, you have provided an answer to my question. Basically,
>> Sanskrit cannot tackle climate change, only humankind can. Or have I
>> misunderstood something?
>>
>>
>>
>> Best wishes,
>>
>>
>>
>> Camillo
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>>
>>
>> Dr Camillo A. Formigatti
>>
>> John Clay Sanskrit Librarian
>>
>>
>>
>> Bodleian Libraries
>>
>> The Weston Library
>>
>> Broad Street, Oxford
>>
>> OX1 3BG
>>
>>
>>
>> Email: camillo.formigatti at bodleian.ox.ac.uk
>>
>> Tel. (office): 01865 (2)77208
>> www.bodleian.ox.ac.uk
>>
>>
>>
>> *GROW YOUR MIND*
>>
>> in Oxford University’s
>>
>> Gardens, Libraries and Museums
>>
>> www.mindgrowing.org
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Nagaraj Paturi <nagarajpaturi at gmail.com>
>> *Sent:* 10 September 2018 19:09
>> *To:* Antonia Ruppel <rhododaktylos at gmail.com>
>> *Cc:* Camillo Formigatti <camillo.formigatti at bodleian.ox.ac.uk>;
>> Jonathan Silk <kauzeya at gmail.com>; Indology <INDOLOGY at list.indology.info>
>> *Subject:* Re: [INDOLOGY] Sanskrit can tackle climate change
>>
>>
>>
>> Thanks, Prof. Antonia Ruppel.
>>
>>
>>
>> We have an expression in Hindi, आप मेरी मुह की बात छीन ली । You snatched
>> words words from my mouth. meaning you said what I wanted to say.
>>
>>
>>
>> You articulated it better than I would have.
>>
>>
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>>
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Sep 10, 2018 at 9:59 PM, Antonia Ruppel <rhododaktylos at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> Dear Camillo, dear all,
>>
>>
>>
>> What I find most striking in these debates is the lack of
>> definition/understanding of what people mean when they say 'Sanskrit'. The
>> author of the article at the basis of this thread does not seem to have had
>> a good idea of what they or the speakers they talk about were thinking of;
>> as Nagaraj pointed out further down in this thread, Sanskrit *literature*
>> contains numerous passages that might be relevant in the climate change
>> debate.
>>
>>
>>
>> What is needed to tackle climate change is for people to live moderately
>> and treat their environment (human and non-human) with respect, and for
>> companies to do that even more so. What also is needed is research that
>> leads to understanding of what the factors are that are the most damaging
>> to the environment.
>>
>>
>>
>> Sanskrit - the language - cannot help us with that. Sanskrit literature,
>> and many other literatures and literary cultures all over the world,
>> present us with us with centuries and sometimes even millennia of careful
>> thoughts on how to live happily without greed and with respect for others.
>> There are many texts that furthermore encourage careful inquiry, i.e. the
>> kind that is the necessary basis of climatological research. As such,
>> knowledge of (some of) the thoughts presented to us by Sanskrit literature
>> can indeed help us with climate change, as it can with many other aspects
>> of our modern lives.
>>
>>
>>
>> So, understood in this very specific way, yes, Sanskrit can help us
>> tackle climate change.
>>
>>
>>
>> But to phrase it in this stand-alone way is misleading: knowledge of the
>> thoughts people have thought in the past, of the ways in which people in
>> the past have dealt with very human problems, and of the ways in which
>> those problems actually remain very relevant today: this is what helps us
>> deal with climate change (among other things).
>>
>>
>>
>> So up with Sanskrit scholarship, up with ALL the humanities! We just need
>> to make this point more clearly and probably more repeatedly; maybe then
>> they'll stop cutting our funding.
>>
>>
>>
>> All the best,
>>
>>       Antonia
>>
>>
>>
>> On Mon, 10 Sep 2018 at 17:12, Camillo Formigatti via INDOLOGY <
>> indology at list.indology.info> wrote:
>>
>> Dear Nagaraj and colleagues,
>>
>>
>>
>> I followed with great interest this discussion, but I still can’t decide
>> whether Sanskrit can tackle climate change for real or not.
>>
>>
>>
>> What do you all think? Because if this is true, we should all plead for
>> the use of Sanskrit to stop one of the greatest challenges for humankind
>> and many other living beings.
>>
>>
>>
>> Best wishes,
>>
>>
>>
>> Cammillo
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>>
>>
>> Dr Camillo A. Formigatti
>>
>> John Clay Sanskrit Librarian
>>
>>
>>
>> Bodleian Libraries
>>
>> The Weston Library
>>
>> Broad Street, Oxford
>>
>> OX1 3BG
>>
>>
>>
>> Email: camillo.formigatti at bodleian.ox.ac.uk
>>
>> Tel. (office): 01865 (2)77208
>> www.bodleian.ox.ac.uk
>>
>>
>>
>> *GROW YOUR MIND*
>>
>> in Oxford University’s
>>
>> Gardens, Libraries and Museums
>>
>> www.mindgrowing.org
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Nagaraj Paturi <nagarajpaturi at gmail.com>
>> *Sent:* 10 September 2018 12:04
>> *To:* Jonathan Silk <kauzeya at gmail.com>
>> *Cc:* George Thompson <gthomgt at gmail.com>; Indology <
>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info>
>> *Subject:* Re: [INDOLOGY] Sanskrit can tackle climate change
>>
>>
>>
>> >  I don't defend "German Indology" because I am German. I defend it
>> because German Indology has been good Indology.
>>
>>
>>
>> -- If you defend German Indology because you are German, there is no
>> anauchitya in it. You might be saying this to say that your statement
>> German Indology is a good Indology is not a subjective or biased statement
>> but an objective and unbiased one. that intention is well taken. But at the
>> same time, reacting or responding to statements about our respective
>> countries/nations as members of those nations has no anouchitya.
>>
>>
>>
>> Trying to appear as though we have overcame our love for our own
>> individual prestige, prestige of our family, prestige of our educational
>> institute of our affiliation, nation of our origin, nation of our current
>> belonging etc. is unnecessary.
>>
>>
>>
>> Expressions such as का ते कांता?  कस्ते पुत्रः ? suit a संन्यासी, a
>> renounced ascetic , not a संसारी  , a family person. Within the
>> reference frame of  संसारी ,  expressions such as का ते कांता?  कस्ते
>> पुत्रः ? are not only anauchitya but even infidelity and treachery to
>> that system. In Telugu there is an idiom meaning "dry Vedanta" used in
>> reference to such usages of extreme level ascetic Vedanta used by family
>> people with mundane interests.
>>
>>
>>
>> -----------------------------
>>
>>
>>
>> Coming to the word German Indology, I must confess that my understanding
>> of -logy of -logy in the case of Indology is not adavanced enough to
>> distinctly identify German Indology from other strands of Indology. Prof.s
>> Vishwa Adluri and Joydeep Bagchee even talk of German Indology of 18th and
>> 19th centuries as their focus. That is too much of a minute nuance to my
>> level of understanding. Some time ago, some people asked me to respond to
>> their posts and responses to their posts. I responded to them saying that
>> the issues such as antisemitism in German Indology (of 18th and 19th
>> centuries) etc. raised by them are not studied by me so well.
>>
>>
>>
>> Later, a few months ago, I got the opportunity to meet the two professors
>> in India. That was their talk on Mahabharata. They were doing a
>> poorvapaksha of the view that Mahabharata is full of self-contradictions
>> etc.
>>
>>
>>
>> ---------------------------------
>>
>>
>>
>> Antisemitism might look to be straw man used by the critiques of early or
>> old German Indology to malign it using the Hitler, Nazis, genocide etc.
>>
>>
>>
>> But 'Hinduism' and Indian nationalism have been greater victims of this
>> straw man based on Hitler, Nazis and genocide because the symbol of
>> swastika associated with 'Hinduism' and the word nationalism in Indian
>> nationalism are repeatedly invoked to stereotype 'Hinduism', Indian
>> nationalism etc. as fascist, Nazi-like, genocidal in tendency etc. The word
>> German Indology is not popular beyond the readers of the publications of
>> Profs Adluri and Bagchee. But the  repeated invoking of stereotypes of
>> 'Hinduism', Indian nationalism etc. as fascist, Nazi-like, genocidal in
>> tendency etc  is found almost everywhere including popular political
>> discourse. Connection of German Indology with antisemitism may at least
>> give an impression of being reasonable. But why Hinduism should be bad
>> because Hitler used its sacred symbol or why Indian nationalism should be
>> bad because Hitler and Nazis were 'nationalists' or because they used the
>> unscientific racist term 'Aryan', is beyond the comprehension of any
>> reasonable understanding.
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>>
>>
>> Those knowledgeable in German Indology of 18th and 19th centuries and its
>> connection or lack of it with antisemitism might discuss with Prof.s Adluri
>> and Bagchee.
>>
>>
>>
>> -------------------------------
>>
>>
>>
>> I for one, am not in a reference frame of  का ते कांता?  कस्ते पुत्रः ? or
>> what your nation? , what my nation ? not to respond when I see that
>> misrepresentation of Sanskrit, India and Indian culture is being done
>> particularly by those who are viewed in India as those who chose  Sanskrit,
>> India and Indian culture  as their subject matter out of love and respect
>> for that subject matter.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Sep 10, 2018 at 12:52 PM, Jonathan Silk <kauzeya at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> I am sorry if I was unclear: mine was not a plea to allow a certain
>> viewpoint (please do not assume that because I use that term I think "there
>> are always two sides to any issue" or make any other assumptions about my
>> position or motivation)--mine was not a plea to allow a certain viewpoint;
>> it was a plea NOT to introduce Trump into the Indology list, and to
>> introduce Modi only insofar as his policies directly relate to Indology
>> (Skt, Tamil, etc).
>>
>> I may well be astonishingly naive, that obviously is something of which I
>> would be the least qualified judge. And astonishment is naturally an
>> entirely subjective experience, so you are welcome to it. But please please
>> let us keep politics off this list. [Again, simply to make overly clear:
>> this does NOT mean that I think discussion of the theories concerning the
>> MBh propounded by whomever are not fair game. Certainly they are, but just
>> because, for instance, the authors of those theories engage in ad hominem
>> attacks does not mean that the proper response is to respond in kind.
>> "Racist" anything stands or falls on its own merits. [this is a different,
>> although not entirely different, perhaps, issue than whether we should
>> acknowledge and take into account the work of persons whose history is
>> absolutely clear -- eg the studies of Wust, or I would venture to say,
>> although foreign to most of the readers of the Indology list, the research
>> of Miyamoto Shoson, who was an incredible Japanese imperialist--one of his
>> prefaces celebrates the day the Imperial Japanese army entered India, the
>> land of the Buddha's birth. This, to be as polite as possible, turns my
>> stomach, but that does not solve the question whether I should, therefore,
>> stop reading his book at the preface. [you might, all of you, take solace
>> in the fact that this proves that at least one person reads prefaces!]]]
>> (sorry, lost count of my embedded brackets!)
>>
>> Anyway, back to the point (there was one): I am far from the first person
>> to notice that it hardly makes any sense at all to speak of "German"
>> Indology in the first place, but whatever attacks are made against one
>> approach or another, whether the nature of those attacks makes any sense is
>> not to be determined by the motivation of the attacker. Let's sift the
>> wheat from the chaff, and perhaps, after all, some ideas, even if published
>> as scholarship, are not really worthwhile rebutting at all.
>>
>>
>>
>> Hoping earnestly that I have clarified my ideas, as poor and unhelpful as
>> they may be,
>>
>>
>>
>> Jonathan
>>
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Sep 10, 2018 at 12:40 AM, George Thompson <gthomgt at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> re JOYDEEP
>>
>>
>>
>> As long as you all allow this hindutva racist to post to this list, mr
>> joydeep, who has regularly attacked "German Indology" over the years, then
>> I will fight with you.  I don't defend "German Indology" because I am
>> German. I defend it because German Indology has been good Indology.
>> Joydeep's Indology is a racist Indology.  I think that Jonathan and Nagaraj
>> are astonishingly naïve when it comes to Joydeep's ideology.  Have they
>> read Joydeep's papers?
>>
>>
>>
>> Shame on you both!  Please read some of  Joydeep's papers, and then get
>> back in touch with the rest of us.
>>
>>
>>
>> best wishes,
>>
>>
>>
>> George Thompson
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> J. Silk
>> Leiden University
>>
>> Leiden University Institute for Area Studies, LIAS
>>
>> Matthias de Vrieshof 3
>> <https://maps.google.com/?q=Matthias+de+Vrieshof+3&entry=gmail&source=g>,
>> Room 0.05b
>>
>> 2311 BZ Leiden
>>
>> The Netherlands
>>
>>
>>
>> copies of my publications may be found at
>>
>> https://leidenuniv.academia.edu/JASilk
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> Nagaraj Paturi
>>
>>
>>
>> Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> BoS, MIT School of Vedic Sciences, Pune, Maharashtra
>>
>>
>>
>> BoS, Chinmaya Vishwavidyapeeth, Veliyanad, Kerala
>>
>>
>>
>> Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies
>>
>>
>>
>> FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of  Liberal Education,
>>
>>
>>
>> (Pune, Maharashtra, INDIA )
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
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>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
>> committee)
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>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> Dr Antonia Ruppel
>> www.cambridge-sanskrit.org
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> Nagaraj Paturi
>>
>>
>>
>> Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> BoS, MIT School of Vedic Sciences, Pune, Maharashtra
>>
>>
>>
>> BoS, Chinmaya Vishwavidyapeeth, Veliyanad, Kerala
>>
>>
>>
>> Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies
>>
>>
>>
>> FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of  Liberal Education,
>>
>>
>>
>> (Pune, Maharashtra, INDIA )
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
>> committee)
>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
>> unsubscribe)
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
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>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
>> unsubscribe)
>>
>
>
> --
> Dr Antonia Ruppel
> www.cambridge-sanskrit.org
>

-- 
Dr Antonia Ruppel
www.cambridge-sanskrit.org

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