[INDOLOGY] Soma and Amanita muscaria

[Walter Slaje]

Thanks to everyone for alerting me also offline to the missing picture!
Meanwhile I had to realize that others who had explored the secret
Himalayan Soma vendor cave (after me), made haste to publish it (before I
could), failing however to decipher and translate the inscriptional
caption. Anyhow, for those interested in the pre-Śrauta early Aryan Soma
trade, here is the link for further research:
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Zwerg_Postkarte_001.jpg

Best wishes,
WS

Am Mi., 10. Okt. 2018 um 17:48 Uhr schrieb Madhav Deshpande <
mmdesh at umich.edu>:

> Dear Walter,
>
>      This sounds exciting.  The png file you attached is not opening for
> some reason.  Could you please send it again in a readable format.  Thanks.
>
> Madhav
>
> Madhav M. Deshpande
> Professor Emeritus
> Sanskrit and Linguistics
> University of Michigan
> [Residence: Campbell, California]
>
>
> On Wed, Oct 10, 2018 at 7:33 AM Walter Slaje via INDOLOGY <
> indology at list.indology.info> wrote:
>
>>
>> An approximately 4000+ years old wall painting recently retrieved from a
>> western Himalayan cave will solve the disputed matter unless and until the
>> ephedra party succeeds in producing comparably firm counterevidence:
>>
>>
>> [image: grafik.png]
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> The Soma vendors left a caption below the painting:
>>
>> “*Aṃśu* of only the finest quality being carried down the slopes by a
>> satisfied Āryan customer with his personal cart. Please note his thrill of
>> anticipation and replenish your stocks at your trusted dealers from
>> Mount Mūjavant !”
>>
>>
>> pīyatām, svastaye!
>>
>> WS
>>
>>
>> Am Mi., 10. Okt. 2018 um 11:44 Uhr schrieb rainer stuhrmann via INDOLOGY <
>> indology at list.indology.info>:
>>
>>> Dear all,
>>>
>>> To answer to Prof. Houben long statement, skipping future experiments
>>>
>>> that can prove everything and nothing:
>>>
>>> Main problem with Ephedra is: it does not fit at all
>>>
>>> 1. the Rigvedic ritual, for a detailed discussion of that see my
>>> article, p.22ff, p.31 (btw. nothing is said in the RV
>>>
>>> about “sprinkling” the Soma),
>>>
>>> 2. Somas colours which refer to the pressed juice, see p. 31-38
>>>
>>> 3.  the effects described by the poets, see p.44-71
>>>
>>> whereas Amanita muscaria does in all respects.
>>>
>>> To
>>>
>>> “The main error in the argument ... by Dr. Stuhrmann and others
>>>
>>> would seem to be that *all* poetic-hallucinogenic descriptions of the
>>> Soma plant are taken as resulting *directly and exclusively* from the
>>> use of a drug or psychoactive substance, whereas (1) the ritual in which
>>> the Soma-beverage is produced contains other, significant
>>>   "transformative-hallucinogenic" practices that appear as crucial
>>> already in the pre-Srauta, Rgvedic ritual; (2) from Saint Franciscus and
>>> Teresia of Avila to William Wordsworth and Apollinaire, poets write
>>> "psychedelic" or "visionary" poetry without being known to have used
>>> strong psychotropic substances.“
>>>
>>> the answer is:
>>>
>>> (1) has not be demonstrated for the RV
>>>
>>> (2) is not disputed at all (see my article p.20), but the occurence of
>>> which elsewehere is of course no proof for the RV.
>>>
>>> But if Houben argues:
>>>
>>> “ In addition, a lack of nutritients through fasting and thirsting may
>>> induce hallucinations as well. The same applies to the deprivation
>>> sleep. Most importantly, whether a substance or the absence of
>>> substances does indeed produce a hallucination will usually depend to a
>>> large
>>> extent on the physiological and psychological condition of the subject,
>>> whereas the nature of the hallucination or vision will depend on his
>>> psychology and cultural background.“(Houben, 2003: 3,1)
>>>
>>> the problem here is:
>>>
>>> the Rigveda does not tell us about “fasting and thirsting, deprivation
>>> of sleep” (Houben) etc, but the poets say very often loud and clear: “We
>>> have just drunk Soma” (see discussion of this, p. 19ff).
>>>
>>> And that is a dried plant arriving on the ritual place, soaked in water,
>>> swelled by that process(as e.g. mushrooms do), pressed out (not beaten),
>>> giving a red to yellowish juice (as e.g. the fly-agaric does),
>>> mixed with milk and drunken for /máda/ “inebriation”, the described
>>> effects of which fit the optical illusionsproduced by hallicunogenic
>>> drugs (as e.g. the fly agaric and btw. also his dreaded side-effects,
>>> see pp. 49-52). For a detailed discussion of this, including
>>> counterarguments by Brough, Houben, Falk and others etc see my article
>>> 2006, pp 10-21 and pp 44-70 .
>>>
>>> Best regards
>>>
>>> Rainer Stuhrmann
>>>
>>>
>>>
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