Re: [INDOLOGY] Was Aśoka an iconoclast?

[Nagaraj Paturi]

Dear Artur-ji,

Does your quote indicate that As'oka was an iconoclast? I do not know if Dr
Ambedkar had the intention of creating an iconoclast image of As'oka.

The sentence from the quote,

"Buddhism discontinued this practice and removed the idols of such deities"

shows that in Dr Ambedkar's view, 'idol' is different from 'deity'.

"As I venerate the Buddha, the Enlightened One, there is no need to worship
any other deity"

is talking about deity not idol.

Buddhism discontinued this practice. Which practice?

"In India, like the village *deity* and national *deity*, there were family
*deities* also who were worshipped through the Brahmins. The priests who
used to go for worshipping these deities started influencing the affairs of
the State through the queens" (highlighting mine)

shows that the focus is on the deities not idols. The focus seems to be on
how the practice that lead to 'the Brahmins influencing the Sate affairs
through the queens' was stopped through the advent of Buddhism. Buddha ,
the Enlightened one, was an alternative to the deities not the idols. Since
the deities were no longer venerated , their idols were removed.

On Fri, May 26, 2017 at 8:44 PM, Artur Karp <karp at uw.edu.pl> wrote:

> But, dear Nagaraj, is there anywhere in the corpus of Aśokan edicts some
> phrase that could support Dr. Ambedkar's image of Aśoka as an iconoclast,
> some mention of Aśoka's iconoclastic act?
>
> Best,
>
> Artur Karp,
> Polska
>
> 2017-05-26 16:29 GMT+02:00 Nagaraj Paturi <nagarajpaturi at gmail.com>:
>
>> All the dates given to origins of idol worship in India are based on
>> textual evidences only and have textual determinism underlying the dating
>> method.
>>
>> If the Indian cultural strands such as the Vedic, which have early
>> textual records do not indicate existence of idol worship in that strand,
>> then it should be reasonable to suspect the source/origin of idol worship
>> in the Indian cultural strands outside these textually recorded ones, i.e.,
>> folk cultural traditions outside the Vedic, Buddhist or Jain.
>>
>> Though the origin dates of cultural elements of these strands is
>> difficult to establish with certainty, it is equally problematic to rule
>> out a pre-Asokan date of origin of idol worship in these traditions as to
>> conclusively settle a pre-Asokan date for the same.
>>
>> On Fri, May 26, 2017 at 12:48 PM, Valerie Roebuck via INDOLOGY <
>> indology at list.indology.info> wrote:
>>
>>> The idea that image (‘idol’) worship was common in Aśoka's time is
>>> surely anachronistic.
>>>
>>> Valerie J Roebuck
>>> Manchester, UK
>>>
>>> On 26 May 2017, at 07:46, Artur Karp via INDOLOGY <
>>> indology at list.indology.info> wrote:
>>>
>>> Dear List,
>>>
>>> From B. R. Ambedkar's address to an international gathering at Colombo
>>> (on 5 June 1950):
>>>
>>> <<In India, like the village deity and national deity, there were family
>>> deities also who were worshipped through the Brahmins. The priests who used
>>> to go for worshipping these deities started influencing the affairs of the
>>> State through the queens. Asoka after embracing Buddhism discontinued this
>>> practice and removed the idols of such deities. Asoka said, "As I venerate
>>> the Buddha, the Enlightened One, there is no need to worship any other
>>> deity".>>
>>>
>>> The address is quoted in Lella Karunyakara's "Modernisation of Buddhism.
>>> Contributions of Ambedkar and Dalai Lama-XIV" Gyan Publishing House, New
>>> Delhi 2002, p 225 - without any comment.
>>>
>>> It is quoted again - in a different context, but also without comment -
>>> in Himanshu Prabha Ray's "Interpreting the Mauryan Empire: Centralized
>>> State or Multiple Centres of Control", in: Grant Parker and Carla Sinopoli
>>> eds. Ancient India in its Wider World, University of Michigan 2008,
>>> footnote 3.
>>>
>>> And again in 2015, at:
>>>
>>> https://drambedkarbooks.com/2015/06/05/5th-june-in-dalit-his
>>> tory-dr-ambedkar-conferred-with-honorary-degree-of-doctor-of
>>> -laws-by-columbia-university/ (accessed on 25.V.2017)
>>>
>>>
>>> Which Aśokan edict could Dr. Ambedkar have had in mind while claiming
>>> that Aśoka "removed the idols of such deities"?
>>>
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>>
>>>
>>> Artur Karp (ret.)
>>>
>>> Katedra Azji Południowej
>>>
>>> Instytut Orientalistyczny
>>>
>>> Uniwersytet Warszawski
>>>
>>> Polska
>>>
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>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Nagaraj Paturi
>>
>> Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.
>>
>>
>> BoS, MIT School of Vedic Sciences, Pune, Maharashtra
>>
>> BoS, Chinmaya Vishwavidyapeeth, Veliyanad, Kerala
>>
>> Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies
>>
>> FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of  Liberal Education,
>>
>> (Pune, Maharashtra, INDIA )
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>


-- 
Nagaraj Paturi

Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.


BoS, MIT School of Vedic Sciences, Pune, Maharashtra

BoS, Chinmaya Vishwavidyapeeth, Veliyanad, Kerala

Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies

FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of  Liberal Education,

(Pune, Maharashtra, INDIA )


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