Re: [INDOLOGY] BhP 10.333.31 and the Bhāgavata Purāṇa's date

[Nagaraj Paturi]

Sorry for my delay in joining this conversation.

Thanks Sri Suresh garu for bringing those verses by Potana in Telugu.

That helps to understand not only the plural of īśvara, but even the
Bhagavata tradition's insider-view of that usage.

But your analogy of Nixon here in

Almost reminds us of Nixon's quote: "when the president does it, that means
it is not illegal." Did Nixon read BhP? :-)

damages that sensitivity to the insider's view.

We don't apply the limitations of or legalities or proprieties of human
world while studying /relishing the fantasy world or mythical world in the
literature of genres such as  mythological, sci-fi etc., do we?

On Fri, Mar 24, 2017 at 7:54 PM, Suresh Kolichala via INDOLOGY <
indology at list.indology.info> wrote:

> Dear Palaniappan,
>
> You are right about īśvara being referred to in plural, but there is
> already an example of such īśvaras in the same section of verses. See
> 10.33.30:
>
>
>
>
> *naitat samācaret jātu manasāpi hi anīśvaraḥvinaśyaty ācaran mauḍhyād
> yathārudro ’bdhi-jaṁ viṣam*
>
> One who is not īśvara (anīśvaraḥ) should never imitate the behavior of
> īśvaras, even mentally. If out of foolishness an ordinary person does
> imitate such behavior, he will simply destroy himself, just as a person who
> is not Rudra would destroy himself if he tried to drink an ocean of poison.
>
> In the Telugu translation of Bhagavatam of Potana (late 1400s), there is a
> mention of candra (moon) and vāsava (indra) as examples of īśvaras, in
> addition to Rudra as mentioned above.
>
> Here are corresponding verses from the Telugu version:
>
> 10.1-1106 (Translation of 10.33.29)
> *sarvabhakṣuⁿ ḍagni sarvambu bhakṣiñcidōṣigāni pagidi dōṣa mainaⁿjēsi
> dōṣapadamuⁿ jendaru tējasvulaguṭaⁿ jandra vāsavāduⁿ ladhipa!*
>
> Meaning: As all-devouring fire remains unpolluted even after consuming
> everything, the same the spirited-people (tējasvi+lu) such as *candra *(moon)
> and *vāsava *(indra) remain untainted for their transgressions.
>
> 10.1-1107 (translation of: SB 10.33.30)
> *īśvaruⁿḍu gānivāⁿḍu na-rēśvara! parakāntaⁿ dalaⁿci yeṭlu braduku?
> gau-rīśvaruⁿḍu dakka nanyuⁿḍuviśvabhayadaviṣamu mriṅgi velayaṅgalaⁿḍē?*
>
> Meaning: O King (narēśvara), how can anyone who is not īśvara survive
> touching other men's wives? Only Gauri's īśvara (husband of Gauri) can
> drink the dreadful poison and survive.
>
> Clearly, the attempt in these verses is to justify Krishna's
> transgressions. Whether Krishna is treated as an *īśvara *(Lord) or a
> *param**ē**śvara *(Supreme Lord), these verses are all about how their
> apparent sinful actions are unimpeachable.
>
> Almost reminds us of Nixon's quote: "when the president does it, that
> means it is not illegal." Did Nixon read BhP? :-)
>
> I still believe your attempt to connect īśvaras in these verses with
> Āḷvārs is far-fetched.
>
> Regards,
> Suresh.
> Nixon's quote: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HiHN3IJ_j8A
>
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-- 
Nagaraj Paturi

Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.

Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies

FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of  Liberal Education,

(Pune, Maharashtra, INDIA )


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