From dermot at grevatt.force9.co.uk  Wed Feb  1 11:03:50 2017
From: dermot at grevatt.force9.co.uk (dermot at grevatt.force9.co.uk)
Date: Wed, 01 Feb 17 11:03:50 +0000
Subject: [INDOLOGY] History of Nirnayasagara Press
In-Reply-To: <CAB3-dzdQ9JJNHT+M87imTM19hqHCCOq3_odpN6Q-_UcZDNq-4g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5891C096.22899.BFC046@dermot.grevatt.force9.co.uk>

Dear Madhav,

That evokes happy memories of reading NSP texts when I was a student in Oxford in the late 
1950s, and then of stopping in Mumbai in 1961 on my way, by ship, to my first teaching post 
in the University of Malaya. I used the few hours in port to go to Nirnayasagara Mudralaya 
and buy more books, and had a look at the bits of type, vignette blocks and other equipment 
that were displayed. Sea travel and metal type: two wonderful achievements of technology, 
and I love the smell of both.

Yours,

Dermot 

On 31 Jan 2017 at 12:02, Madhav Deshpande via INDOLOGY wrote:

I came across an important book in Marathi on the History of the Nirnayasagara Press 
published in 1967. If anyone is interested, here is the link: 

https://archive.org/details/in.ernet.dli.2015.310269

Madhav Deshpande

-- 
Dermot Killingley
9, Rectory Drive,
Gosforth,
Newcastle upon Tyne NE3 1XT
Phone (0191) 285 8053






From eastwestcultural at yahoo.com  Wed Feb  1 11:50:23 2017
From: eastwestcultural at yahoo.com (Dean Michael Anderson)
Date: Wed, 01 Feb 17 11:50:23 +0000
Subject: =?utf-8?Q?[INDOLOGY]_Fw:__A_Pur=C4=81=E1=B9=87ic_myth_on_N=C4=81rada_and_Urva=C5=9B=C4=AB?=
In-Reply-To: <763020319.579313.1485862232403@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <141472102.1771234.1485949823132@mail.yahoo.com>



I believe it is originally from the Vayu Purana. Unfortunately time pressure prevents me from locating the exact reference.
Best,
Dean Anderson


      From: Omar Abu Dbei via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info>
 To: indology at list.indology.info 
 Sent: Tuesday, January 31, 2017 1:51 PM
 Subject: [INDOLOGY] A Pur??ic myth on N?rada and Urva??
  
DearProfessors and Collegues,
my name isOmar Abu Dbei and I am currently a PhD student under the supervision ofRaffaele Torella in Rome. 
Whileconsulting Vettam Mani?s?Pur??ic Encyclopaedia, I have found a reference, under the entry Urva?? (pp. 812-813), to a mythicalepisode that might be, under many respects, of the greatest interest for myresearch:

Once Agastya went to the durbar ofIndra. On the occasion Indra asked Urva?? to dance. In the midst of the danceshe saw Jayanta, the son of Indra, and became amorous and her steps went wrong.N?rada who was playing his famous lute called Mahat? could not play well.Agastya went angry and cursed Jayanta to become a bud. He cursed N?rada also.So his lute became the lute of the world. Urva?? was born on the earth underthe name M?dhav? due to the curse.?Unfortunately,no Sanskrit source is recorded and, not being a specialist myself in the fieldof Pur??as, I have been unable so farto find any possible one. Is there anybody who knows the exact source of this myth?
Many thanks for your attention.
Kind regards,
Omar Abu Dbei
_______________________________________________
INDOLOGY mailing list
INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee)
http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe)

   

   


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From paoloe.rosati at gmail.com  Wed Feb  1 12:06:21 2017
From: paoloe.rosati at gmail.com (Paolo Eugenio Rosati)
Date: Wed, 01 Feb 17 13:06:21 +0100
Subject: =?utf-8?Q?[INDOLOGY]_=C5=9Aiva_(linga),_the_mountain_and_the_blue_colour?=
Message-ID: <CAMOCTf8zhrn1PBhgMbL6ZUyBWnC4jbUoGouN4U3QQdbGpDPw2w@mail.gmail.com>

Dear indologists,

I am looking for Puranic references that link together Shiva, the blue
colour and the mountain.

E.g.: in *Kalikapurana *is narrated that Nilacala turned its colour into
blue because of the touch of the *yoni*, although the mountain was already
identified with Shiva (and its linga) -- thus it may be (probably)
assumed/hypothesised that the association between blue and Shiva was
provoked by the *shakti *of the Goddess.

Any further reference will be greatly appreciated.

Best,
Paolo

-- 
Paolo E. Rosati
Oriental Archaeologist
PhD candidate in "Civilizations of Asia and Africa"
South Asia Section
Dep. Italian Institute of Oriental Studies/ISO
'Sapienza' University of Rome
*https://uniroma1.academia.edu/PaoloRosati/
<https://uniroma1.academia.edu/PaoloRosati/>*
paoloe.rosati at uniroma1.it
paoloe.rosati at gmail.com
Skype: paoloe.rosati
Mobile: (+39) 338 73 83 472


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From c.ram-prasad at lancaster.ac.uk  Wed Feb  1 17:32:05 2017
From: c.ram-prasad at lancaster.ac.uk (Ram-Prasad, Chakravarthi)
Date: Wed, 01 Feb 17 17:32:05 +0000
Subject: =?utf-8?Q?[INDOLOGY]_svaya=E1=B9=83vara?=
Message-ID: <5622B5FA1B14F3439A3ABC85C5A09EA823FD0A7D@EX-1-MB1.lancs.local>

Could anyone point me in the direction of any literature on the topic of the svaya?vara in classical texts? I am looking for a discussion of its role in narrative and/or discussions of gender and marriage.
Thank you.

Ram-Prasad
Lancaster University


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From dnreigle at gmail.com  Wed Feb  1 19:07:50 2017
From: dnreigle at gmail.com (David and Nancy Reigle)
Date: Wed, 01 Feb 17 12:07:50 -0700
Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_[INDOLOGY]_A_Pur=C4=81=E1=B9=87ic_myth_on_N=C4=81rada_and_Urva=C5=9B=C4=AB?=
In-Reply-To: <CAMQEYbrw3SoaiW7rU+rH0MeQGX+36mp098pb35_afGsTGXYDmw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAPAZekYRrHSKkBsJ6c7ibiHXZ8GjLLJGgfNhVpeGyvBM6rZA=g@mail.gmail.com>

Dear Omar,

Besides Vettam Mani?s  *Pur??ic Encyclopaedia*, there is another pur??a
reference work: *The Purana Index*, by V. R. Ramachandra Dikshitar, 3
volumes, University of Madras, 1951-1955 (reprinted by Motilal Banarsidass
in 1995). It covers only five pur??as, which it regarded as the most
ancient: V?yu, Brahm???a, Matsya, Vi??u, and Bh?gavata. For the particular
Urva?? episode that you inquired about, under Urva??, it gives as source
Matsya-pur??a 24.12-33. It utilized the 1907 ?nand??rama edition of the
Matsya-pur??a.

The 1916 English translation of *The Matsya Puranam*, made by "A Taluqdar
of Oudh," published in 2 parts as volume 17 of The Sacred Books of the
Hindus series, does not state what Sanskrit edition it was made from.
However, the above-given reference to 24.12-33 is right for this episode in
it. My impression is that this is a rather loose translation of the Matsya-
pur??a. A new English translation of the *Matsya Mah**?**pur?**?a* by "A
Board of Scholars" was published by Parimal Publications in 2007.

We unfortunately do not yet have a critical edition of the Matsya-pur??a.
One was undertaken by V. Raghavan shortly after the inception of the
All-India Kashiraj Trust, and he published articles on it in their *P**ur?*
*?a* journal starting with vol. 1 in 1959. Although he published "A Sample
Edition of the Matsya Pur??a" in vol. 4, 1962, neither he nor others ever
completed this edition. Thus, we do not know if some Matsya-pur??a
manuscripts have variant readings for the characters in this Urva?? episode.
While Vettam Mani?s account has Agastya giving the curse, the ?nand??rama
edition of the Matsya-pur??a has Bharata giving the curse.

Best regards,

David Reigle
Colorado, U.S.A.

On Tue, Jan 31, 2017 at 1:21 AM, Omar Abu Dbei via INDOLOGY <
indology at list.indology.info> wrote:

> Dear Professors and Collegues,
>
>
> my name is Omar Abu Dbei and I am currently a PhD student under the
> supervision of Raffaele Torella in Rome.
> While consulting Vettam Mani?s  *Pur??ic Encyclopaedia*, I have found a
> reference, under the entry *Urva?? *(pp. 812-813), to a mythical episode
> that might be, under many respects, of the greatest interest for my
> research:
>
> *Once Agastya went to the durbar of Indra. On the occasion Indra asked
> Urva?? to dance. In the midst of the dance she saw Jayanta, the son of
> Indra, and became amorous and her steps went wrong. N?rada who was playing
> his famous lute called Mahat? could not play well. Agastya went angry and
> cursed Jayanta to become a bud. He cursed N?rada also. So his lute became
> the lute of the world. Urva?? was born on the earth under the name M?dhav?
> due to the curse*.
>
>
>
> Unfortunately, no Sanskrit source is recorded and, not being a specialist
> myself in the field of *Pur??a*s, I have been unable so far to find any
> possible one. Is there anybody who knows the exact source of this myth?
>
>
> Many thanks for your attention.
>
>
> Kind regards,
>
>
> Omar Abu Dbei
>
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
> committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
> unsubscribe)
>


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From camillo.formigatti at bodleian.ox.ac.uk  Wed Feb  1 19:08:56 2017
From: camillo.formigatti at bodleian.ox.ac.uk (Camillo Formigatti)
Date: Wed, 01 Feb 17 19:08:56 +0000
Subject: [INDOLOGY] History of Nirnayasagara Press
In-Reply-To: <CAB3-dzdQ9JJNHT+M87imTM19hqHCCOq3_odpN6Q-_UcZDNq-4g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <0C647B6E904DBB4BAD3A28D522DC7315EAD233@MBX05.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk>

Dear Prof. Deshpande,

This is a wonderful book, many thanks for the link!

Best wishes,

Camillo Formigatti

________________________________
From: Madhav Deshpande [mmdesh at umich.edu]
Sent: Tuesday, January 31, 2017 5:02 PM
To: indology at list.indology.info; bvparishat at googlegroups.com; e-shabda-charcha-peeth
Subject: [INDOLOGY] History of Nirnayasagara Press

I came across an important book in Marathi on the History of the Nirnayasagara Press published in 1967.  If anyone is interested, here is the link:

https://archive.org/details/in.ernet.dli.2015.310269

Madhav Deshpande


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From witzel at fas.harvard.edu  Wed Feb  1 21:05:42 2017
From: witzel at fas.harvard.edu (Witzel, Michael)
Date: Wed, 01 Feb 17 21:05:42 +0000
Subject: [INDOLOGY] INDUS CIVILISATION.
In-Reply-To: <BA369FDF-97B7-46A3-BC9C-C47CEA8A49E5@safarmer.com>
Message-ID: <DA95FADF-2F91-46F4-9F05-FD1F1CBC08CD@fas.harvard.edu>

Dear All, (I see that my message (below)  has not gone through on Jan. 31, thus here repeated:

???????

Leaving aside long standing personal grudges, however unfounded  (George Thompson against Steve Framer, Bryan Wells against me). ? For your amusement: Wells has recently invited me to his planned online Indus ?conference,?  to be held in March...) ?
I  rather wish to point out some incorrect  and incomplete statements in this thread:

* ?Munda" spoken in the Indus Civilization.

I have never written that. Rather, I was speaking of "Para-Munda?:  as the substrate words in the ?gveda (and many more in later Vedic) have some characteristics of the Munda languages, such as the extensive use of prefixes;  but these words hardly show infixes, another characteristic of Munda languages. Thus only ?Para-Munda?.
 (See my 1999 paper: www.people.fas.harvard.edu/~witzel/Substrates_MT1999.pdf<http://www.people.fas.harvard.edu/~witzel/Substrates_MT1999.pdf>)_<http://www.people.fas.harvard.edu/~witzel/Substrates_MT1999.pdf_>

Perhaps I should have used another name. But I expect(ed) that scholars, such as on this list (LOL), could or should actually *read* what was  written.

* Kuiper?s list  (1991, Aryans in the RV) :

has some 380 words that he regarded as non Indo-Aryan, thus as a local substrate in early Indo-Aryan, i.e.  in that of the ?gveda (RV).
This list of substrate words  constitutes 2-4% of the RV words, depending on evaluation, which is rather surprising for a hieratic text.
In this list he did not yet  deal with the ?bilingual? poet?s hymn RV 10.106 (as detailed in one of his very last papers).

See my summary of Kuiper?s  list (with English meanings, and RV 10.105, added) at www.people.fas.harvard.edu/~witzel/kuiper.pdf<http://www.people.fas.harvard.edu/~witzel/kuiper.pdf>

* Looking at that list it is clear that the vast majority in *not* based on any Dravidian language. (The extensive use of prefixes ? such as ka- ki- k?r-,  or tila :: jar-tila,  alone would preclude that).

* Burrow, who had early on championed a Dravidian substrate in the ?gveda, later on retracted almost all of his 25 or so Dravidian etymologies for RV words.

I took a look at them in my 1999 paper (www.people.fas.harvard.edu/~witzel/Substrates_MT1999.pdf<http://www.people.fas.harvard.edu/~witzel/Substrates_MT1999.pdf>)_<http://www.people.fas.harvard.edu/~witzel/Substrates_MT1999.pdf_> and found that only a handful Dravidian words appear in the LATE ?gveda.

That means: in the greater Panjab area that overlaps with the northern part of the Indus Civilization. Unfortunately we do not have  similar early data for Sindh.  And, the Sindhi language has not yet been investigated for this purpose. (All bibliographic details  are found in the 1999 paper).

* It is thus unreasonable to think of early Dravidian as the common language of the Indus area (pace Parpola et al.), and as the underlying language of the so-called "Indus script?. Rather, we have to explain how and why a few Dravidian loan words appeared in the late RV.

*  Finally, as Andrew Ollett  has unfortunately started this discussion based on a useless pop article, here some more websites of the same ilk, with similar assertions ? many of them, such as some ?conclusions' based on computational linguistics refuted by Richard Sproat for long?  and with the usual  (often nationalistic) misrepresentations. Have fun!

http://www.theverge.com/2017/1/25/14371450/indus-valley-civilization-ancient-seals-symbols-language-algorithms-ai
https://www.scribd.com/document/337697009/Wells-collaborative-website

https://in.news.yahoo.com/jallikattu-hindu-dravidian-indus-valley-030055585.html

M. Witzel


On Jan 30, 2017, at 10:10 PM, Steve Farmer via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info<mailto:indology at list.indology.info>> wrote:

George Thomson wrote, on the amateurish pop science article on the so-called ?Indus script? posted on the List:

Yes, this was a superficial article.  But it's comparison of Farmer to Trump is not entirely wrong.   Those two do share so many character traits that it is conceivable that they may be born twins, culturally speaking.

When I pointed out the egregious ad hominem nature of this remark, he responded:

Dear Steve,

You think too much that I am interested in you.  This is not about you, it is about Vedic.

Well, when you compare me to Donald Trump, plus all the other nasty ad hominem comments you?ve directed at me over the last 12 years on this List or others, it?s pretty reasonable to say that it has a SOMETHING to do with your personal animosity towards me. We last saw each other I think nearly 15 years briefly at a conference at Harvard. It is really time to stop all these public attacks on me.

Anyway, those attcks have nothing to do with my scholarship, let alone anything ?Vedic.?

What do Vedic traditions have to do with Indus symbols, which were long many centuries before Vedic culture appeared on the scene? Nothing, unless you cave in to Hindutva political mythology, which of course you don?t! :)

The 2004 paper on the nonlinguistic nature of Indus symbols written by Michael Witzel, Richard Sproat, and I was a joint collaboration ? not my sole production -- and Michael and Richard and I, still very close friends of mine, remain committed to every major claim we jointly made in that paper 13 years ago.

Take a look again at our paper, which you yourself strongly endorsed when it first came out. It certainly does NOT have anything to do with Vedic traditions? except in its discussion of Hindutva attempts to conflate Indus and Vedic traditions that no serious researcher in the world takes seriously:

www.safarmer.com/fsw2.pdf<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.safarmer.com_fsw2.pdf&d=CwMFaQ&c=WO-RGvefibhHBZq3fL85hQ&r=tFXzIbyKS2C0TpVqKsMrj46qwsAermBN5wzaDe51So0&m=-TpwJsJ81r50ZU8tnlK9DQsyT7b1LsB2H0F3F-CY0aM&s=LtgQg3rk2NLb9P7lGFUvYe5cGZ8-Q-uylLtjEQP7cW0&e=>

Note also that  there isn?t a single polemical or ad hominem comment in the entire article ? just lots of evidence that ended up embarrassing a lot of people, since in terms just of readership, it is by far the most read and discussed article ever written on the Indus Valley. Hence all the nasty polemics.

I hate to have to respond to you on the Indology List, but when someone compares me absurdly to tthe most dangerous human on the planet, it seems reasonable to respond, though it wastes needless time.

Thanks and over and out -
Steve

On Jan 30, 2017, at 6:03 PM, George Thompson <gthomgt at gmail.com<mailto:gthomgt at gmail.com>> wrote:

Dear Steve,

You think too much that I am interested in you.  This is not about you, it is about Vedic.

On Mon, Jan 30, 2017 at 6:41 PM, Steve Farmer via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info<mailto:indology at list.indology.info>> wrote:
Dear George,

You write about the pop article on the so-called Indus script posted on Indology:

...it's comparison of Farmer to Trump is not entirely wrong.   Those two do share so many character traits that it is conceivable that they may be born twins, culturally speaking.

Could I ask you again ? and the moderators too ? to stop your repeated ad hominem attacks on me on this and other scholarly Lists. Those attacks have gone on now repeatedly for 12 years ? to 2005! ? and have nothing to do with Indology or scholarship.

And they certainly don?t have anything to do with the so-called Indus script issue. You in fact endorsed the findings that Michael and Richard and I published on the nonlinguistic nature of Indus symbols in 2004. That paper has now been downloaded over two million times since it was published and Science magazine called attention to it late that year.

More copies are still being downloaded of it 13 years later, which suggests something about its impact. You were even thanked in our acknowledgements of the paper, as you?ll see on page 49 of the paper, at the head of a List of 17 others. :)

http://www.safarmer.com/fsw2.pdf<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.safarmer.com_fsw2.pdf&d=CwMFaQ&c=WO-RGvefibhHBZq3fL85hQ&r=tFXzIbyKS2C0TpVqKsMrj46qwsAermBN5wzaDe51So0&m=-TpwJsJ81r50ZU8tnlK9DQsyT7b1LsB2H0F3F-CY0aM&s=LtgQg3rk2NLb9P7lGFUvYe5cGZ8-Q-uylLtjEQP7cW0&e=>

In any event, could I politely ask you to end your ad hominem attacks on me on the Indology List, on which I?ve certainly never said personal about you? If you want to discuss something substantial about the Indus symbols, I?m happy to talk about it, although nothing new or interesting really has been said about this topic now for many years ? and the current research I?m doing is in far different topics?

Peace! Let personal bygones go?.. :)

Best wishes,
Steve Farmer

Dear List,

This paper that Andrew has passed on to us has many flaws, and these flaws are not just a  matter of personal animosity.  The paper certainly should have included reference to Asko Parpola's book, and all of his previous works on this topic. It should have included reference to other competent philologists and linguists as well.   Witzel is mentioned only in association with Farmer and Sprout, but he has done much significant work elsewhere on substrate languages in early Vedic [especially our oldest text the RV, where we find many foreign, non-Indo-European words [see Kuiper's famous list of some 380 foreign words in the RV ].  Because of these sorts of studies, done by philologists and linguists, we have reasonably good confidence to assert that Dravidian has a good chance of being the language of IVC as Asko argues, because there is good evidence that it was there, well before the RV].   There is also a reasonably good chance  that a Munda language was there as well, a language possibly spoken in IVC, because we have good evidence that these two language families were present in the area occupied by the IVC at the dates when it flourished.    By the time the Vedic clans arrived in this area the IVC  was  long dead.  But some IVC words and ideas may have survived, though rarely, in the Rgveda.

Among specialists in the RV , RV 10.106 is generally considered to be the most difficult hymn in the RV [see , for example Geldner, Renou, and most recently Jamison & Brereton).  Kuiper has even suggested that this hymn was composed by a bilingual Rgvedic poet; if he was bilingual, we need to find out what his second language was].  Philologists with expertise in the languages that are known or are likely to have been present in the IVC area during its flourishing period need to examine  these foreign words in the RV.

Another factor not much discussed here is that IVC  was a huge territory, and therefore it is likely that it was a multilingual culture.  It is possible therefore that the IVC sign system was a non-linguistic sign-system, as suggested  by Farmer, Sprout, & Witzel, a long time ago, that was meant to communicate to many linguistic communities through visual rather than verbal signs .

Yes, this was a superficial article.  But it's comparison of Farmer to Trump is not entirely wrong.   Those two do share so many character traits that it is conceivable that they may be born twins, culturally speaking.

For those who wonder about Bryan Wells who claims to be an epigrapher: is he really an epigrapher? It may well  be that he doesn't actually claim to be one, and that this poorly informed  journalist didn't know what the term actually means.  Bryan Wells, as far as I know, has fruitfully studied the IVC signs for a long time, but I have never seen any evidence that he has significant knowledge of any of the languages that may have been or were in play in IVC at the relevant time-period.

List members who are seriously interested in this question should read Parpola, Kuiper, Witzel, et al.  The computer models discussed in this article need to be linked to relevant languages.

My two-cents.

George Thompson


On Fri, Jan 27, 2017 at 10:36 AM, Dermot Killingley via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info<mailto:indology at list.indology.info>> wrote:
I read the piece quickly, and found it interesting how Trump has made himself the absolute
standard of mendacity. But I don't think anyone who, however mistakenly, has evidence to
support their statements, should be compared to him.

Dermot

On 27 Jan 2017 at 8:07, Andrew Ollett via INDOLOGY wrote:

I hesitate to pass this popular-science treatment of the question along, since it is tinged with
some personal animosity, but this just appeared two days ago:

http://www.theverge.com/2017/1/25/14371450/indus-valley-civilization-ancient-seals-symbols
-language-algorithms-ai<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.theverge.com_2017_1_25_14371450_indus-2Dvalley-2Dcivilization-2Dancient-2Dseals-2Dsymbols-2Dlanguage-2Dalgorithms-2Dai&d=CwMFaQ&c=WO-RGvefibhHBZq3fL85hQ&r=tFXzIbyKS2C0TpVqKsMrj46qwsAermBN5wzaDe51So0&m=-TpwJsJ81r50ZU8tnlK9DQsyT7b1LsB2H0F3F-CY0aM&s=TDhzu_TVVyzYtVK2NvSrzdmzzp1IyF-6LYNYvoPz7qY&e=>

2017-01-27 6:37 GMT-05:00 Asko Parpola via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info<mailto:indology at list.indology.info>>:
    In my book "The Roots of Hinduism: The Early Aryans and the Indus Civilization",
    New York: Oxford University Press, 2015,
    I present manifold evidence for the Dravidian affinity of the Harappan language.

    With best regards,

    Asko Parpola
    Professor Emeritus of Indology,
    University of Helsinki, Finland


    On Fri, Jan 27, 2017 at 8:31 AM, Dean Michael Anderson via INDOLOGY
    <indology at list.indology.info<mailto:indology at list.indology.info> > wrote:



    There is no consensus about which language or languages the
    Harappan (Indus Valley Civilization) people spoke.
    The script is considered by most to be logo-syllabic, not
    heiroglyphic.
    Farmer, Witzel, Sproat consider it to be a sign system rather than a
    script associated with any particular language.
    Best,
    Dean
    Dr. Dean Michael Anderson
    East West Cultural Institute
    Austin, Texas, USA
    Pondicherry, India

    From: alakendu das via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info<mailto:indology at list.indology.info>>
    To: indology at list.indology.info<mailto:indology at list.indology.info> Sent: Friday, January 27, 2017
    11:44 AM Subject: [INDOLOGY] INDUS CIVILISATION.
    To All, While going through some books on Indus valley civilisation
    , I failed to find out one answer. Though the Harappana & Mohenjo
    daro script has been inferred as more of a Hieroglyphic type, what
    dialect/language did they speak ? Would love to be enlightened on
    this point. ALAKEND DAS.
    _______________________________________________
    INDOLOGY mailing list INDOLOGY at list.indology.info<mailto:INDOLOGY at list.indology.info>
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From psdmccartney at gmail.com  Thu Feb  2 01:14:57 2017
From: psdmccartney at gmail.com (patrick mccartney)
Date: Thu, 02 Feb 17 11:44:57 +1030
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Yoga and Sexual Violence Conference/Workshop: Save the Date
Message-ID: <CAEzwJrDOAZY8FwEyAQTboAkYB5U4vsQhe9z24b7tSCrmFHDRAA@mail.gmail.com>

Dear Friends,

Thanks to funds made available through SARI <http://sari.anu.edu.au/>,
we are beginning to organise a small conference/workshop on 'Yoga and
Sexual Violence'. This builds on the conference we organised last year
about 'Yoga and the Body'
<http://sari.anu.edu.au/yoga-and-the-body-past-and-present/>.

The tentative timing for the conference is scheduled for the *second half
of 2017*. The most likely date is *sometime in November*, which is a lovely
time to be in Canberra, Australia.

A confirmed date, more information, and an official call for papers will
occur in the next few months. For now, we invite you to *save the date. *We
will consider all possibilities that explore the theme, which includes
perspectives that are grounded in philology, history, anthropology, and
beyond.

All the best,

Patrick McCartney, PhD
Fellow
School of Culture, History & Language
College of the Asia-Pacific
The Australian National University
Canberra, Australia, 0200


Skype - psdmccartney
Phone + Whatsapp:  +61 414 954 748
Twitter - @psdmccartney


*bodhap?rvam calema* ;-)

academia <https://anu-au.academia.edu/patrickmccartney>

   -

Linkedin
<https://www.linkedin.com/profile/view?id=241756978&trk=nav_responsive_tab_profile>

Edanz <https://www.edanzediting.com/expert/anthropology/patrick-mccartney>

YogaTrade
<https://yogatrade.com/resume/dr-dts7idm-anthropologist-phd-shanti-mandir-authenticity-economy-and-emotion-in-a-yoga-ashram-visiting-fellow-australian-national-university/>

#yogabodyANU2016 symposium <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X80KxW2bb0w>
<http://chl.anu.edu.au/news-events/events/658/yoga-and-body-past-and-present-symposium?#tab>

Ep1 - Imagining Sanskrit Land <https://youtu.be/jMi7tkPBbJ4>

Ep 2 - Total-am <https://youtu.be/7tAp8m9RHPU>

Ep 3 - Jalam ? Chillum <https://youtu.be/cLZeuCT_mwQ>

Ep 4 - It's Time to get Married
<https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_B3un7aHEAc>

A Day in our Ashram
<https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=ek+din+hamaare+ashram+mein>

Stop animation short film of Shakuntala
<https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LVqBD_2P4Pg>

Forced to Clean Human Waste <http://youtu.be/y3XfjbwqC_g>

One of my favourite song <http://trinityroots.bandcamp.com/track/all-we-be>s

The Philosophy of Cycling
<http://elibrary.com.ng/UploadFiles/file0_2221.pdf>

Plato's Cave
<http://www.openculture.com/2011/07/orson_welles_narrates_platos_cave_allegory.html>

Endangered Languages MOOC
<https://www.edx.org/course/language-revival-securing-future-adelaidex-lang101x>

Blackfella-Whitefella <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M_DHwp5vYBI>


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From mailmealakendudas at rediffmail.com  Thu Feb  2 06:06:08 2017
From: mailmealakendudas at rediffmail.com (alakendu das)
Date: Thu, 02 Feb 17 06:06:08 +0000
Subject: [INDOLOGY] INDUS CIVILISATION.
In-Reply-To: <55758798.2320249.1485498213614@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1485498217.S.8397.6519.f4-234-198.1486015567.29605@webmail.rediffmail.com>



 Dr.Anderson,

              Thanks everybody for elaborating on the matter  





     However, ,in this connection I would like to qoute a few lines from  Pg 19 of the book 'An 

Advanced History of India' by Dr.R.C. Majumdar et al ( Publisher -MACMILLAN, First edition 

1946,Latest Reprint 1988), which says, in a Chapter on IVC - ' More than five hundred seals have 

been disccoverd....... made of Terra-Cotta .All of them contain ,a short record  inscribed in a 

sort of pictorial writing ,which still remians undeciphered.'



           My question is -;Whether it implies what we call hieroglyphics?





                                                          ALAKENDU DAS.


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From eastwestcultural at yahoo.com  Thu Feb  2 08:14:27 2017
From: eastwestcultural at yahoo.com (Dean Michael Anderson)
Date: Thu, 02 Feb 17 08:14:27 +0000
Subject: [INDOLOGY] INDUS CIVILISATION.
In-Reply-To: <1485498217.S.8397.6519.f4-234-198.1486015567.29605@webmail.rediffmail.com>
Message-ID: <256899244.2754464.1486023267442@mail.yahoo.com>

It is not hieroglyphics but most likely another type of "writing" that is called logo-syllabic ...? or one of the other options have already been discussed in this thread, like a sign system.

Best,
Dean


      From: alakendu das <mailmealakendudas at rediffmail.com>
 To: eastwestcultural at yahoo.com 
Cc: indology at list.indology.info
 Sent: Thursday, February 2, 2017 11:36 AM
 Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] INDUS CIVILISATION.
   

 Dr.Anderson,
 Thanks everybody for elaborating on the matter 


 However, ,in this connection I would like to qoute a few lines from Pg 19 of the book 'An 
Advanced History of India' by Dr.R.C. Majumdar et al ( Publisher -MACMILLAN, First edition 
1946,Latest Reprint 1988), which says, in a Chapter on IVC - ' More than five hundred seals have 
been disccoverd....... made of Terra-Cotta .All of them contain ,a short record inscribed in a 
sort of pictorial writing ,which still remians undeciphered.'

 My question is -;Whether it implies what we call hieroglyphics?


 ALAKENDU DAS.


   


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From gthomgt at gmail.com  Thu Feb  2 14:32:47 2017
From: gthomgt at gmail.com (George Thompson)
Date: Thu, 02 Feb 17 09:32:47 -0500
Subject: [INDOLOGY] INDUS CIVILISATION.
In-Reply-To: <256899244.2754464.1486023267442@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <CAP1Y1zsM6o9jcjtqVWtUH+EdU-3qKau+SzgwjDsZaTONXW+ndQ@mail.gmail.com>

Dear List,

Michael Witzel comes to this thread late and self-absorbed, dismayed that
nobody reads his papers carefully.  He also comes to the thread without
having read the posts carefully.  Where has anyone suggested that the "vast
majority" of Kuiper's list of loanwords were Dravidian?  I merely said that
I thought that Asko Parpola should at least have been mentioned.  Here
Michael is fighting some old war that now exists only in his head.

Steve Farmer and I have taken our discussion off-list.  It is mere
preconception that my posts have been motivated by grudges.  I have
persuaded Steve that I have no grudges.  We have called a truce.  He has
even gone so as to praise my Gita translation, which he uses in a class on
ancient yoga.  I am not going to bother to persuade Michael of any
of this.  Let him go on living with his preconceptions.

I stand by my only point: that the study of these Rgveda foreign loanwords
may have some value when it comes to solving the riddle of these IVC
signs.  It is a riddle that I am not interested in solving.  I spend my
days translating the Rgveda.  That is my pleasure.

George Thompson



On Thu, Feb 2, 2017 at 3:14 AM, Dean Michael Anderson via INDOLOGY <
indology at list.indology.info> wrote:

> It is not hieroglyphics but most likely another type of "writing" that is
> called logo-syllabic ...  or one of the other options have already been
> discussed in this thread, like a sign system.
>
> Best,
>
> Dean
>
>
> ------------------------------
> *From:* alakendu das <mailmealakendudas at rediffmail.com>
> *To:* eastwestcultural at yahoo.com
> *Cc:* indology at list.indology.info
> *Sent:* Thursday, February 2, 2017 11:36 AM
> *Subject:* Re: [INDOLOGY] INDUS CIVILISATION.
>
>
> Dr.Anderson,
> Thanks everybody for elaborating on the matter
>
>
> However, ,in this connection I would like to qoute a few lines from Pg 19
> of the book 'An
> Advanced History of India' by Dr.R.C. Majumdar et al ( Publisher
> -MACMILLAN, First edition
> 1946,Latest Reprint 1988), which says, in a Chapter on IVC - ' More than
> five hundred seals have
> been disccoverd....... made of Terra-Cotta .All of them contain ,a short
> record inscribed in a
> sort of pictorial writing ,which still remians undeciphered.'
>
> My question is -;Whether it implies what we call hieroglyphics?
>
>
> ALAKENDU DAS.
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
> committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
> unsubscribe)
>


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From witzel at fas.harvard.edu  Thu Feb  2 15:03:38 2017
From: witzel at fas.harvard.edu (Witzel, Michael)
Date: Thu, 02 Feb 17 15:03:38 +0000
Subject: [INDOLOGY] INDUS CIVILISATION.
In-Reply-To: <CABEB9qJKedcHBPdARM10geiCU4DGh-qEKkSADo0NwMY6CQAVYw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <A242C070-3025-46E6-BD11-81B11C22D530@fas.harvard.edu>

Brahui definitely a North Dravidian language spoken in S.W. Afghanistan and westernmost Pakistan.

The question of Brahui is complex, even inside the Dravidian language family. It is spoken inclose symbiosis with western Baluchi (an originally west Iranian language), so much so that a son has to address his father in Baluchi but otherwise uses Brahui?

The Baluchi speakers moved east out of Kurdistan only about a thousand yeras ago.

Similarly, like the other North Drav. languages (Kurukh and Malto), speakers of Brahui have moved north out of central India only about a thousand years ago.

Here, the definite answer has been given by Elfenbein (IIJ 1983 ). He showed that there are no East Iranian loanwords (from Avestan and similar dialects) or from other Middle Iranian languages in Brahui, which would prove Brahui speakers?  old residence in Baluchistan. Brahui only has (more recent) Baluchi loans.

(So where should Skt. n?ra ?water? come from when N. Drav. has d?r?  Note ?atapatha Br.?s Sad?-n?ra  river, the Gandhak(i) and the initial chapter of Manu.)

----

It is another question whether Brahui is related to Elamian (in SW Iran: Susa/Khuzistan, now speaking Arabic).

McAlpin has recently revived his (failed) theory of an Elamo-Dravidian language family, for which see the extensive discussion in Current Anthropology 1975 where he was heavily criticized by a handful of specialists. Now he wants to see Brahui as a link between Elamian and subcontinental Dravidian (what about Kurukh and Malto then?)

In sum, Brahui as a remnant of "Indus Dravidian? of 2000 BCE is highly unlikely, or rather: impossible.

Cheers,
M.W.

Lit.:

Elfenbein, J.H. A periplous of the 'Brahui problem'. Studia Iranica 16, 1987, 215-233

?, The Brahui problem again. Indo-Iranian Journal, 1983 -; cf. IIj 25, 193, 191-209.
?, Notes on the Balochi-Brahui linguistic commensality. Transactions of the Philological Society, 1982
 McAlpin, David W., Elamite and Dravidian: Further evidence of relationship. (With  discussion by M.B. Emeneau, W.H. Jacobsen, F.B.J. Kuiper, H.H. Paper, E.  Reiner, R. Stopa, F. Vallat, R.W. Wescott, and a reply by McAlpin). Current  Anthropology 16, 1975, 105-115
---, Proto-Elamian-Dravidian: the evidence and its implication-s. Transactions of the American Philosophical Society, 71, Philadelphia 1981
Zvelebil, K. Review of McAlpin 1981, JAOS 105, 1985, 364-372



On Feb 2, 2017, at 4:33 AM, Dipak Bhattacharya <dipak.d2004 at gmail.com<mailto:dipak.d2004 at gmail.com>> wrote:

Some old yet unanswered questions linger --the problem of Brahui. A Dravidic language at such a distance from today's Dravidic main land rtaises questions -- are they survivals from an erstwhile linguistic zone? To deny Brahui Dravidic character might be a way out.
Best
DB

On Thu, Feb 2, 2017 at 2:35 AM, Witzel, Michael via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info<mailto:indology at list.indology.info>> wrote:
Dear All, (I see that my message (below)  has not gone through on Jan. 31, thus here repeated:

???????

Leaving aside long standing personal grudges, however unfounded  (George Thompson against Steve Framer, Bryan Wells against me). ? For your amusement: Wells has recently invited me to his planned online Indus ?conference,?  to be held in March...) ?
I  rather wish to point out some incorrect  and incomplete statements in this thread:

* ?Munda" spoken in the Indus Civilization.

I have never written that. Rather, I was speaking of "Para-Munda?:  as the substrate words in the ?gveda (and many more in later Vedic) have some characteristics of the Munda languages, such as the extensive use of prefixes;  but these words hardly show infixes, another characteristic of Munda languages. Thus only ?Para-Munda?.
 (See my 1999 paper: www.people.fas.harvard.edu/~witzel/Substrates_MT1999.pdf<http://www.people.fas.harvard.edu/~witzel/Substrates_MT1999.pdf>)_<http://www.people.fas.harvard.edu/~witzel/Substrates_MT1999.pdf_>

Perhaps I should have used another name. But I expect(ed) that scholars, such as on this list (LOL), could or should actually *read* what was  written.

* Kuiper?s list  (1991, Aryans in the RV) :

has some 380 words that he regarded as non Indo-Aryan, thus as a local substrate in early Indo-Aryan, i.e.  in that of the ?gveda (RV).
This list of substrate words  constitutes 2-4% of the RV words, depending on evaluation, which is rather surprising for a hieratic text.
In this list he did not yet  deal with the ?bilingual? poet?s hymn RV 10.106 (as detailed in one of his very last papers).

See my summary of Kuiper?s  list (with English meanings, and RV 10.105, added) at www.people.fas.harvard.edu/~witzel/kuiper.pdf<http://www.people.fas.harvard.edu/~witzel/kuiper.pdf>

* Looking at that list it is clear that the vast majority in *not* based on any Dravidian language. (The extensive use of prefixes ? such as ka- ki- k?r-,  or tila :: jar-tila,  alone would preclude that).

* Burrow, who had early on championed a Dravidian substrate in the ?gveda, later on retracted almost all of his 25 or so Dravidian etymologies for RV words.

I took a look at them in my 1999 paper (www.people.fas.harvard.edu/~witzel/Substrates_MT1999.pdf<http://www.people.fas.harvard.edu/~witzel/Substrates_MT1999.pdf>)_<http://www.people.fas.harvard.edu/~witzel/Substrates_MT1999.pdf_> and found that only a handful Dravidian words appear in the LATE ?gveda.

That means: in the greater Panjab area that overlaps with the northern part of the Indus Civilization. Unfortunately we do not have  similar early data for Sindh.  And, the Sindhi language has not yet been investigated for this purpose. (All bibliographic details  are found in the 1999 paper).

* It is thus unreasonable to think of early Dravidian as the common language of the Indus area (pace Parpola et al.), and as the underlying language of the so-called "Indus script?. Rather, we have to explain how and why a few Dravidian loan words appeared in the late RV.

*  Finally, as Andrew Ollett  has unfortunately started this discussion based on a useless pop article, here some more websites of the same ilk, with similar assertions ? many of them, such as some ?conclusions' based on computational linguistics refuted by Richard Sproat for long?  and with the usual  (often nationalistic) misrepresentations. Have fun!

http://www.theverge.com/2017/1/25/14371450/indus-valley-civilization-ancient-seals-symbols-language-algorithms-ai<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.theverge.com_2017_1_25_14371450_indus-2Dvalley-2Dcivilization-2Dancient-2Dseals-2Dsymbols-2Dlanguage-2Dalgorithms-2Dai&d=CwMFaQ&c=WO-RGvefibhHBZq3fL85hQ&r=tFXzIbyKS2C0TpVqKsMrj46qwsAermBN5wzaDe51So0&m=cshwPVAJFhfFZSK878rx9_Qj-ZHK6CZrJudnuACRuD8&s=sTyrvoIJ1bSGh57TFznTmeMDYCB1Yy0jKoL5CBShrgg&e=>
https://www.scribd.com/document/337697009/Wells-collaborative-website<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.scribd.com_document_337697009_Wells-2Dcollaborative-2Dwebsite&d=CwMFaQ&c=WO-RGvefibhHBZq3fL85hQ&r=tFXzIbyKS2C0TpVqKsMrj46qwsAermBN5wzaDe51So0&m=cshwPVAJFhfFZSK878rx9_Qj-ZHK6CZrJudnuACRuD8&s=JRnp5odeCgAaA1zAyjWOFdgQikJgyAygZpYtJyA_GW8&e=>

https://in.news.yahoo.com/jallikattu-hindu-dravidian-indus-valley-030055585.html<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__in.news.yahoo.com_jallikattu-2Dhindu-2Ddravidian-2Dindus-2Dvalley-2D030055585.html&d=CwMFaQ&c=WO-RGvefibhHBZq3fL85hQ&r=tFXzIbyKS2C0TpVqKsMrj46qwsAermBN5wzaDe51So0&m=cshwPVAJFhfFZSK878rx9_Qj-ZHK6CZrJudnuACRuD8&s=iSct1_uNRCs03NFUNrL2DaaDgu2fTkyVrgzkgAeki-Y&e=>

M. Witzel


On Jan 30, 2017, at 10:10 PM, Steve Farmer via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info<mailto:indology at list.indology.info>> wrote:

George Thomson wrote, on the amateurish pop science article on the so-called ?Indus script? posted on the List:

Yes, this was a superficial article.  But it's comparison of Farmer to Trump is not entirely wrong.   Those two do share so many character traits that it is conceivable that they may be born twins, culturally speaking.

When I pointed out the egregious ad hominem nature of this remark, he responded:

Dear Steve,

You think too much that I am interested in you.  This is not about you, it is about Vedic.

Well, when you compare me to Donald Trump, plus all the other nasty ad hominem comments you?ve directed at me over the last 12 years on this List or others, it?s pretty reasonable to say that it has a SOMETHING to do with your personal animosity towards me. We last saw each other I think nearly 15 years briefly at a conference at Harvard. It is really time to stop all these public attacks on me.

Anyway, those attcks have nothing to do with my scholarship, let alone anything ?Vedic.?

What do Vedic traditions have to do with Indus symbols, which were long many centuries before Vedic culture appeared on the scene? Nothing, unless you cave in to Hindutva political mythology, which of course you don?t! :)

The 2004 paper on the nonlinguistic nature of Indus symbols written by Michael Witzel, Richard Sproat, and I was a joint collaboration ? not my sole production -- and Michael and Richard and I, still very close friends of mine, remain committed to every major claim we jointly made in that paper 13 years ago.

Take a look again at our paper, which you yourself strongly endorsed when it first came out. It certainly does NOT have anything to do with Vedic traditions? except in its discussion of Hindutva attempts to conflate Indus and Vedic traditions that no serious researcher in the world takes seriously:

www.safarmer.com/fsw2.pdf<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.safarmer.com_fsw2.pdf&d=CwMFaQ&c=WO-RGvefibhHBZq3fL85hQ&r=tFXzIbyKS2C0TpVqKsMrj46qwsAermBN5wzaDe51So0&m=-TpwJsJ81r50ZU8tnlK9DQsyT7b1LsB2H0F3F-CY0aM&s=LtgQg3rk2NLb9P7lGFUvYe5cGZ8-Q-uylLtjEQP7cW0&e=>

Note also that  there isn?t a single polemical or ad hominem comment in the entire article ? just lots of evidence that ended up embarrassing a lot of people, since in terms just of readership, it is by far the most read and discussed article ever written on the Indus Valley. Hence all the nasty polemics.

I hate to have to respond to you on the Indology List, but when someone compares me absurdly to tthe most dangerous human on the planet, it seems reasonable to respond, though it wastes needless time.

Thanks and over and out -
Steve

On Jan 30, 2017, at 6:03 PM, George Thompson <gthomgt at gmail.com<mailto:gthomgt at gmail.com>> wrote:

Dear Steve,

You think too much that I am interested in you.  This is not about you, it is about Vedic.

On Mon, Jan 30, 2017 at 6:41 PM, Steve Farmer via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info<mailto:indology at list.indology.info>> wrote:
Dear George,

You write about the pop article on the so-called Indus script posted on Indology:

...it's comparison of Farmer to Trump is not entirely wrong.   Those two do share so many character traits that it is conceivable that they may be born twins, culturally speaking.

Could I ask you again ? and the moderators too ? to stop your repeated ad hominem attacks on me on this and other scholarly Lists. Those attacks have gone on now repeatedly for 12 years ? to 2005! ? and have nothing to do with Indology or scholarship.

And they certainly don?t have anything to do with the so-called Indus script issue. You in fact endorsed the findings that Michael and Richard and I published on the nonlinguistic nature of Indus symbols in 2004. That paper has now been downloaded over two million times since it was published and Science magazine called attention to it late that year.

More copies are still being downloaded of it 13 years later, which suggests something about its impact. You were even thanked in our acknowledgements of the paper, as you?ll see on page 49 of the paper, at the head of a List of 17 others. :)

http://www.safarmer.com/fsw2.pdf<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.safarmer.com_fsw2.pdf&d=CwMFaQ&c=WO-RGvefibhHBZq3fL85hQ&r=tFXzIbyKS2C0TpVqKsMrj46qwsAermBN5wzaDe51So0&m=-TpwJsJ81r50ZU8tnlK9DQsyT7b1LsB2H0F3F-CY0aM&s=LtgQg3rk2NLb9P7lGFUvYe5cGZ8-Q-uylLtjEQP7cW0&e=>

In any event, could I politely ask you to end your ad hominem attacks on me on the Indology List, on which I?ve certainly never said personal about you? If you want to discuss something substantial about the Indus symbols, I?m happy to talk about it, although nothing new or interesting really has been said about this topic now for many years ? and the current research I?m doing is in far different topics?

Peace! Let personal bygones go?.. :)

Best wishes,
Steve Farmer

Dear List,

This paper that Andrew has passed on to us has many flaws, and these flaws are not just a  matter of personal animosity.  The paper certainly should have included reference to Asko Parpola's book, and all of his previous works on this topic. It should have included reference to other competent philologists and linguists as well.   Witzel is mentioned only in association with Farmer and Sprout, but he has done much significant work elsewhere on substrate languages in early Vedic [especially our oldest text the RV, where we find many foreign, non-Indo-European words [see Kuiper's famous list of some 380 foreign words in the RV ].  Because of these sorts of studies, done by philologists and linguists, we have reasonably good confidence to assert that Dravidian has a good chance of being the language of IVC as Asko argues, because there is good evidence that it was there, well before the RV].   There is also a reasonably good chance  that a Munda language was there as well, a language possibly spoken in IVC, because we have good evidence that these two language families were present in the area occupied by the IVC at the dates when it flourished.    By the time the Vedic clans arrived in this area the IVC  was  long dead.  But some IVC words and ideas may have survived, though rarely, in the Rgveda.

Among specialists in the RV , RV 10.106 is generally considered to be the most difficult hymn in the RV [see , for example Geldner, Renou, and most recently Jamison & Brereton).  Kuiper has even suggested that this hymn was composed by a bilingual Rgvedic poet; if he was bilingual, we need to find out what his second language was].  Philologists with expertise in the languages that are known or are likely to have been present in the IVC area during its flourishing period need to examine  these foreign words in the RV.

Another factor not much discussed here is that IVC  was a huge territory, and therefore it is likely that it was a multilingual culture.  It is possible therefore that the IVC sign system was a non-linguistic sign-system, as suggested  by Farmer, Sprout, & Witzel, a long time ago, that was meant to communicate to many linguistic communities through visual rather than verbal signs .

Yes, this was a superficial article.  But it's comparison of Farmer to Trump is not entirely wrong.   Those two do share so many character traits that it is conceivable that they may be born twins, culturally speaking.

For those who wonder about Bryan Wells who claims to be an epigrapher: is he really an epigrapher? It may well  be that he doesn't actually claim to be one, and that this poorly informed  journalist didn't know what the term actually means.  Bryan Wells, as far as I know, has fruitfully studied the IVC signs for a long time, but I have never seen any evidence that he has significant knowledge of any of the languages that may have been or were in play in IVC at the relevant time-period.

List members who are seriously interested in this question should read Parpola, Kuiper, Witzel, et al.  The computer models discussed in this article need to be linked to relevant languages.

My two-cents.

George Thompson


On Fri, Jan 27, 2017 at 10:36 AM, Dermot Killingley via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info<mailto:indology at list.indology.info>> wrote:
I read the piece quickly, and found it interesting how Trump has made himself the absolute
standard of mendacity. But I don't think anyone who, however mistakenly, has evidence to
support their statements, should be compared to him.

Dermot

On 27 Jan 2017 at 8:07, Andrew Ollett via INDOLOGY wrote:

I hesitate to pass this popular-science treatment of the question along, since it is tinged with
some personal animosity, but this just appeared two days ago:

http://www.theverge.com/2017/1/25/14371450/indus-valley-civilization-ancient-seals-symbols
-language-algorithms-ai<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.theverge.com_2017_1_25_14371450_indus-2Dvalley-2Dcivilization-2Dancient-2Dseals-2Dsymbols-2Dlanguage-2Dalgorithms-2Dai&d=CwMFaQ&c=WO-RGvefibhHBZq3fL85hQ&r=tFXzIbyKS2C0TpVqKsMrj46qwsAermBN5wzaDe51So0&m=-TpwJsJ81r50ZU8tnlK9DQsyT7b1LsB2H0F3F-CY0aM&s=TDhzu_TVVyzYtVK2NvSrzdmzzp1IyF-6LYNYvoPz7qY&e=>

2017-01-27 6:37 GMT-05:00 Asko Parpola via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info<mailto:indology at list.indology.info>>:
    In my book "The Roots of Hinduism: The Early Aryans and the Indus Civilization",
    New York: Oxford University Press, 2015,
    I present manifold evidence for the Dravidian affinity of the Harappan language.

    With best regards,

    Asko Parpola
    Professor Emeritus of Indology,
    University of Helsinki, Finland


    On Fri, Jan 27, 2017 at 8:31 AM, Dean Michael Anderson via INDOLOGY
    <indology at list.indology.info<mailto:indology at list.indology.info> > wrote:



    There is no consensus about which language or languages the
    Harappan (Indus Valley Civilization) people spoke.
    The script is considered by most to be logo-syllabic, not
    heiroglyphic.
    Farmer, Witzel, Sproat consider it to be a sign system rather than a
    script associated with any particular language.
    Best,
    Dean
    Dr. Dean Michael Anderson
    East West Cultural Institute
    Austin, Texas, USA
    Pondicherry, India

    From: alakendu das via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info<mailto:indology at list.indology.info>>
    To: indology at list.indology.info<mailto:indology at list.indology.info> Sent: Friday, January 27, 2017
    11:44 AM Subject: [INDOLOGY] INDUS CIVILISATION.
    To All, While going through some books on Indus valley civilisation
    , I failed to find out one answer. Though the Harappana & Mohenjo
    daro script has been inferred as more of a Hieroglyphic type, what
    dialect/language did they speak ? Would love to be enlightened on
    this point. ALAKEND DAS.
    _______________________________________________
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--
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9, Rectory Drive,
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Newcastle upon Tyne NE3 1XT
Phone (0191) 285 8053


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From saf at safarmer.com  Thu Feb  2 15:27:09 2017
From: saf at safarmer.com (Steve Farmer)
Date: Thu, 02 Feb 17 07:27:09 -0800
Subject: [INDOLOGY] INDUS CIVILISATION.
In-Reply-To: <CAP1Y1zsM6o9jcjtqVWtUH+EdU-3qKau+SzgwjDsZaTONXW+ndQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <86AFAB82-8749-46EB-877F-A0B718E0E368@safarmer.com>

Dear George,

The anger in your posts comes out even here, this time just vs. Michael and not me.

That tone kills off useful discussion of difficult and controversial issues like this, which is presumably why the List rules forbid ?rude language" and ?personal attacks of an ad-hominem nature? ? Paragraph 5 here: http://indology.info/email/email-const/ (not enforced, however).

In the post I objected to earlier ? in which you compared me with Trump ? you spent much time recommending Michael?s works (just not those written with me). 

But now, one post later, you imagine that Michael is?fighting some old war that now exists only in his head,? and say other odd things about him being ?self-absorbed,? ?living with preconceptions,? etc. This is the same person you were praising a day earlier?

Comments like these discourage any rational discussion ? which is also the effect of all the nasty remarks about me in that pop article Andrew posted the other day. One great way to cut off discussion of inconvenient evidence ? e.g. re. Indus signs -- is call people names. And that of course ironically is in fact ?Trumpish."

I know, by the way, that Michael DID want plan to add something more on the supposed language of the Indus ? something *never* discussed publicly ? since he mentioned it in notes we exchanged yesterday. But now?

This is about things that happened thousands of years ago, not the approaching sixth extinction. Now THAT might justify a little anger.

But not things about the Indus Valley ? quite ridiculous. :) 

Peace, please-
Steve
 
> On Feb 2, 2017, at 6:32 AM, George Thompson via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info> wrote:
> 
> Dear List,
> 
> Michael Witzel comes to this thread late and self-absorbed, dismayed that nobody reads his papers carefully.  He also comes to the thread without having read the posts carefully.  Where has anyone suggested that the "vast majority" of Kuiper's list of loanwords were Dravidian?  I merely said that I thought that Asko Parpola should at least have been mentioned.  Here Michael is fighting some old war that now exists only in his head.
> 
> Steve Farmer and I have taken our discussion off-list.  It is mere preconception that my posts have been motivated by grudges.  I have persuaded Steve that I have no grudges.  We have called a truce.  He has even gone so as to praise my Gita translation, which he uses in a class on ancient yoga.  I am not going to bother to persuade Michael of any of this.  Let him go on living with his preconceptions. 
> 
> I stand by my only point: that the study of these Rgveda foreign loanwords may have some value when it comes to solving the riddle of these IVC signs.  It is a riddle that I am not interested in solving.  I spend my days translating the Rgveda.  That is my pleasure.
> 
> George Thompson
> 
> 
> 
> On Thu, Feb 2, 2017 at 3:14 AM, Dean Michael Anderson via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info <mailto:indology at list.indology.info>> wrote:
> It is not hieroglyphics but most likely another type of "writing" that is called logo-syllabic ...  or one of the other options have already been discussed in this thread, like a sign system.
> 
> Best,
> 
> Dean
> 
> 
> From: alakendu das <mailmealakendudas at rediffmail.com <mailto:mailmealakendudas at rediffmail.com>>
> To: eastwestcultural at yahoo.com <mailto:eastwestcultural at yahoo.com> 
> Cc: indology at list.indology.info <mailto:indology at list.indology.info>
> Sent: Thursday, February 2, 2017 11:36 AM
> Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] INDUS CIVILISATION.
> 
> 
> Dr.Anderson,
> Thanks everybody for elaborating on the matter 
> 
> 
> However, ,in this connection I would like to qoute a few lines from Pg 19 of the book 'An 
> Advanced History of India' by Dr.R.C. Majumdar et al ( Publisher -MACMILLAN, First edition 
> 1946,Latest Reprint 1988), which says, in a Chapter on IVC - ' More than five hundred seals have 
> been disccoverd....... made of Terra-Cotta .All of them contain ,a short record inscribed in a 
> sort of pictorial writing ,which still remians undeciphered.'
> 
> My question is -;Whether it implies what we call hieroglyphics?
> 
> 
> ALAKENDU DAS.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
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From eastwestcultural at yahoo.com  Thu Feb  2 15:45:43 2017
From: eastwestcultural at yahoo.com (Dean Michael Anderson)
Date: Thu, 02 Feb 17 15:45:43 +0000
Subject: [INDOLOGY] INDUS CIVILISATION.
In-Reply-To: <86AFAB82-8749-46EB-877F-A0B718E0E368@safarmer.com>
Message-ID: <1473113431.3037562.1486050343984@mail.yahoo.com>

>I know, by the way, that Michael DID want plan to add something more on the supposed language of the Indus ? 
>something *never* discussed publicly ? since he mentioned it in notes we exchanged yesterday. But now?
I, for one, would love to hear what Michael has to say.
Also, in the name of collegiality, can we limit our conversation to the scholarly topics?
Best,
Dean


      From: Steve Farmer <saf at safarmer.com>
 To: George Thompson <gthomgt at gmail.com> 
Cc: Dean Michael Anderson <eastwestcultural at yahoo.com>; "indology at list.indology.info" <indology at list.indology.info>
 Sent: Thursday, February 2, 2017 8:57 PM
 Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] INDUS CIVILISATION.
   
Dear George,
The anger in your posts comes out even here, this time just vs. Michael and not me.
That tone kills off useful discussion of difficult and controversial issues like this, which is presumably why the List rules forbid ?rude language" and ?personal attacks of an ad-hominem nature? ? Paragraph 5 here: http://indology.info/email/email-const/ (not enforced, however).
In the post I objected to earlier ? in which you compared me with Trump ? you spent much time recommending Michael?s works (just not those written with me).?
But now, one post later, you imagine that Michael is?fighting some old war that now exists only in his head,? and say other odd things about him being ?self-absorbed,? ?living with preconceptions,? etc. This is the same person you were praising a day earlier?
Comments like these discourage any rational discussion ? which is also the effect of all the nasty remarks about me in that pop article Andrew posted the other day. One great way to cut off discussion of inconvenient evidence ? e.g. re. Indus signs -- is call people names. And that of course ironically is in fact ?Trumpish."
I know, by the way, that Michael DID want plan to add something more on the supposed language of the Indus ? something *never* discussed publicly ? since he mentioned it in notes we exchanged yesterday. But now?
This is about things that happened thousands of years ago, not the approaching sixth extinction. Now THAT might justify a little anger.
But not things about the Indus Valley ? quite ridiculous. :)?
Peace, please-Steve?

On Feb 2, 2017, at 6:32 AM, George Thompson via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info> wrote:
Dear List,
Michael Witzel comes to this thread late and self-absorbed, dismayed that nobody reads his papers carefully.? He also comes to the thread without having read the posts carefully.? Where has anyone suggested that the "vast majority" of Kuiper's list of loanwords were Dravidian?? I merely said that I thought that Asko Parpola should at least?have been mentioned.? Here Michael is fighting some old war that now exists only in his head.
Steve Farmer and I have taken our discussion off-list.? It is mere preconception that my posts have been motivated by grudges.? I have persuaded Steve that I have no grudges.? We have called a truce.? He has even gone so as to praise my Gita translation, which he uses in a class on ancient yoga.? I am not going to bother to persuade Michael of any of?this.? Let him go on living with his preconceptions.? 
I stand by my only point: that the study of these Rgveda foreign loanwords may have some value when it comes to solving the riddle of these IVC signs.? It is a riddle that I am not interested in solving.? I spend my days translating the Rgveda.? That is my pleasure.
George Thompson


On Thu, Feb 2, 2017 at 3:14 AM, Dean Michael Anderson via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info> wrote:

It is not hieroglyphics but most likely another type of "writing" that is called logo-syllabic ...? or one of the other options have already been discussed in this thread, like a sign system.

Best,
Dean


      From: alakendu das <mailmealakendudas at rediffmail. com>
 To: eastwestcultural at yahoo.com 
Cc: indology at list.indology.info
 Sent: Thursday, February 2, 2017 11:36 AM
 Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] INDUS CIVILISATION.
  

 Dr.Anderson,
 Thanks everybody for elaborating on the matter 


 However, ,in this connection I would like to qoute a few lines from Pg 19 of the book 'An 
Advanced History of India' by Dr.R.C. Majumdar et al ( Publisher -MACMILLAN, First edition 
1946,Latest Reprint 1988), which says, in a Chapter on IVC - ' More than five hundred seals have 
been disccoverd....... made of Terra-Cotta .All of them contain ,a short record inscribed in a 
sort of pictorial writing ,which still remians undeciphered.'

 My question is -;Whether it implies what we call hieroglyphics?


 ALAKENDU DAS.


   
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From wujastyk at gmail.com  Thu Feb  2 16:09:46 2017
From: wujastyk at gmail.com (Dominik Wujastyk)
Date: Thu, 02 Feb 17 09:09:46 -0700
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Conduct of discussion on this list.
Message-ID: <CAKdt-CcN3kC_ETVAvx6bGk-JxnkpiVrgi9VnixFd-JjDDq5y2g@mail.gmail.com>

Dear colleagues in this INDOLOGY forum,

The managing committee <http://indology.info/email/email-comm.shtml> of
INDOLOGY?
?
? has watched a few recent exchanges with some dismay, because of their
harsh tone.  Our committee has also received messages of concern from
several members of the list, who worry that a decline of standards in
collegial discussion will undermine the value of the forum as a place for
scholars to debate academic issues in a productive manner.


?INDOLOGY membership currently stands at 701 members.?  That is an
encouragingly high number for a specialist subject such as ours.  It is
also a large number of people to participate harmoniously in an unmoderated
forum.  In general, conduct is admirably high.  And it is noticeable that
when occasional lapses occur, the high level of good conversation rapidly
reasserts itself.  Taking the long view, our committee feels optimistic,
and perhaps even slightly proud of the INDOLOGY forum, and grateful to see
the frequent messages of thanks and appreciation that members post, when a
question is answered or a bibliographical item is found.

?It is also worth remembering that exchanges in this forum are publicly and
permanently archived, intemperate outbursts and all.


We trust our members to remain mindful of the value of this forum as a
privileged space for earnest and cooperative conversation.  It could easily
be destroyed, so let us cherish it.

Sincerely,
The INDOLOGY managing committee.



Netiquette guidelines: http://indology.info/email/email-rfc-1855/


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From oguibenine at gmail.com  Thu Feb  2 18:54:55 2017
From: oguibenine at gmail.com (Boris Oguibenine)
Date: Thu, 02 Feb 17 13:54:55 -0500
Subject: [INDOLOGY] new publication
Message-ID: <CANmMsHECLOd++VotkwP6o_R-DHHJYjRzi+ihh4T70oy=2ANbHQ@mail.gmail.com>

Dear Colleagues,

I would like to announce the publication of this book appeared just at the
end of 2016:

Boris Oguib?nine*. A Descriptive Grammar of Buddhist Sanskrit. The language
of the Textual Tradition of the Mah?s??ghika-Lokottorav?dins. General
Introduction. Sound Patterns. Sandhi Patterns, *484 pp., 2016.

Journal of Indo-European Studies Monograph 64, Institute for the Study of
Man,  Washington DC.



ISBN Hardback: 978-0-9983669-0-6

ISBN Paperback: 978-0-9983669-1-3



 Summary



 This book is the first detailed description of the phonetics of Buddhist
Sanskrit as shown in the textual tradition of the Buddhist sect known as
Mah?s??ghika-Lokottorav?dins. The texts use the language which undoubtedly
bears the marks of Middle Indian influence,  mostly of P?li. However,  as
widely recognized,  this language is not identical with P?li or any other
Middle Indian dialect. F. Edgerton?s pioneer grammar of this language (New
Haven: Yale University Press,  1953),  which he called ?Buddhist Hybrid
Sanskrit? allows only a limited space to its phonetics. The present book
contains an analysis of the phonetic evidence of all available texts of the
Mah?s??ghika-Lokottorav?dins. Several of them have been published after
Edgerton?s demise,  and their data had necessarily to be incorporated in
our analysis.

          Special emphasis is made on the fact that this language does not
owe its shape to either Middle Indian dialect,  but is a language on its
own,  with its own peculiar structural constraints and features.

          Particularly,  to account for its mixed nature,  all occurrences
of sound and their sequences are thoroughly examined with special attention
to the alternations taking place within the texts and their layers,
 probably pointing to the language habits of the speakers of different
Middle Indian dialects,  which contributed to the production of the textual
tradition that stood in the midway between H?nay?na?s and Mah?y?na?s texts.

       The intricate problem of sandhi patterns is also given much
attention as it is generally believed that these patterns were subject to
no constraints whatsoever.

           This volume on the phonetics should be followed by further
volumes dedicated to morphological and syntactic patterns of this language

Boris OGUIBENINE
Professeur (?m?rite)
Universit?  de Strasbourg
14, rue Descartes
BP 80010
F-67084 Strasbourg
France


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From gthomgt at gmail.com  Thu Feb  2 21:02:53 2017
From: gthomgt at gmail.com (George Thompson)
Date: Thu, 02 Feb 17 16:02:53 -0500
Subject: [INDOLOGY] new publication
In-Reply-To: <CANmMsHECLOd++VotkwP6o_R-DHHJYjRzi+ihh4T70oy=2ANbHQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAP1Y1zts1KZfkfBw2XsYYfSFMprCFRGZ0FRSzGy6S=LTenA75A@mail.gmail.com>

Dear Boris,

I am glad to hear that this project which you have worked so hard to
complete is now published.

Congratulations!

George

On Thu, Feb 2, 2017 at 1:54 PM, Boris Oguibenine via INDOLOGY <
indology at list.indology.info> wrote:

> Dear Colleagues,
>
> I would like to announce the publication of this book appeared just at the
> end of 2016:
>
> Boris Oguib?nine*. A Descriptive Grammar of Buddhist Sanskrit. The
> language of the Textual Tradition of the Mah?s??ghika-Lokottorav?dins.
> General Introduction. Sound Patterns. Sandhi Patterns, *484 pp., 2016.
>
> Journal of Indo-European Studies Monograph 64, Institute for the Study of
> Man,  Washington DC.
>
>
>
> ISBN Hardback: 978-0-9983669-0-6
>
> ISBN Paperback: 978-0-9983669-1-3
>
>
>
>  Summary
>
>
>
>  This book is the first detailed description of the phonetics of Buddhist
> Sanskrit as shown in the textual tradition of the Buddhist sect known as
> Mah?s??ghika-Lokottorav?dins. The texts use the language which undoubtedly
> bears the marks of Middle Indian influence,  mostly of P?li. However,  as
> widely recognized,  this language is not identical with P?li or any other
> Middle Indian dialect. F. Edgerton?s pioneer grammar of this language (New
> Haven: Yale University Press,  1953),  which he called ?Buddhist Hybrid
> Sanskrit? allows only a limited space to its phonetics. The present book
> contains an analysis of the phonetic evidence of all available texts of the
> Mah?s??ghika-Lokottorav?dins. Several of them have been published after
> Edgerton?s demise,  and their data had necessarily to be incorporated in
> our analysis.
>
>           Special emphasis is made on the fact that this language does not
> owe its shape to either Middle Indian dialect,  but is a language on its
> own,  with its own peculiar structural constraints and features.
>
>           Particularly,  to account for its mixed nature,  all occurrences
> of sound and their sequences are thoroughly examined with special attention
> to the alternations taking place within the texts and their layers,
>  probably pointing to the language habits of the speakers of different
> Middle Indian dialects,  which contributed to the production of the textual
> tradition that stood in the midway between H?nay?na?s and Mah?y?na?s texts.
>
>        The intricate problem of sandhi patterns is also given much
> attention as it is generally believed that these patterns were subject to
> no constraints whatsoever.
>
>            This volume on the phonetics should be followed by further
> volumes dedicated to morphological and syntactic patterns of this language
>
> Boris OGUIBENINE
> Professeur (?m?rite)
> Universit?  de Strasbourg
> 14, rue Descartes
> BP 80010
> F-67084 Strasbourg
> France
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
> committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
> unsubscribe)
>


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From rpjain1903 at gmail.com  Thu Feb  2 21:35:14 2017
From: rpjain1903 at gmail.com (R. P. Jain)
Date: Fri, 03 Feb 17 03:05:14 +0530
Subject: [INDOLOGY] new publication
In-Reply-To: <CAP1Y1zts1KZfkfBw2XsYYfSFMprCFRGZ0FRSzGy6S=LTenA75A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <81C597B7-3817-4A33-AC8C-C44C38BDF0D3@gmail.com>

Can you tell me who's the publisher of the book.

Rajeev jain

Sent from my iPhone

> On 03-Feb-2017, at 2:32 AM, George Thompson via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info> wrote:
> 
> Dear Boris,
> 
> I am glad to hear that this project which you have worked so hard to complete is now published.
> 
> Congratulations!
> 
> George
> 
>> On Thu, Feb 2, 2017 at 1:54 PM, Boris Oguibenine via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info> wrote:
>> Dear Colleagues,
>> 
>> I would like to announce the publication of this book appeared just at the end of 2016:
>> 
>> Boris Oguib?nine. A Descriptive Grammar of Buddhist Sanskrit. The language of the Textual Tradition of the Mah?s??ghika-Lokottorav?dins. General Introduction. Sound Patterns. Sandhi Patterns, 484 pp., 2016. 
>> 
>> Journal of Indo-European Studies Monograph 64, Institute for the Study of Man,  Washington DC.
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> ISBN Hardback: 978-0-9983669-0-6
>> 
>> ISBN Paperback: 978-0-9983669-1-3
>> 
>>  
>> 
>>  Summary
>> 
>>  
>> 
>>  This book is the first detailed description of the phonetics of Buddhist Sanskrit as shown in the textual tradition of the Buddhist sect known as Mah?s??ghika-Lokottorav?dins. The texts use the language which undoubtedly bears the marks of Middle Indian influence,  mostly of P?li. However,  as widely recognized,  this language is not identical with P?li or any other Middle Indian dialect. F. Edgerton?s pioneer grammar of this language (New Haven: Yale University Press,  1953),  which he called ?Buddhist Hybrid Sanskrit? allows only a limited space to its phonetics. The present book contains an analysis of the phonetic evidence of all available texts of the Mah?s??ghika-Lokottorav?dins. Several of them have been published after Edgerton?s demise,  and their data had necessarily to be incorporated in our analysis.
>> 
>>           Special emphasis is made on the fact that this language does not owe its shape to either Middle Indian dialect,  but is a language on its own,  with its own peculiar structural constraints and features.
>> 
>>           Particularly,  to account for its mixed nature,  all occurrences of sound and their sequences are thoroughly examined with special attention to the alternations taking place within the texts and their layers,  probably pointing to the language habits of the speakers of different Middle Indian dialects,  which contributed to the production of the textual tradition that stood in the midway between H?nay?na?s and Mah?y?na?s texts.
>> 
>>        The intricate problem of sandhi patterns is also given much attention as it is generally believed that these patterns were subject to no constraints whatsoever.
>> 
>>            This volume on the phonetics should be followed by further volumes dedicated to morphological and syntactic patterns of this language
>> 
>> 
>> Boris OGUIBENINE
>> Professeur (?m?rite)
>> Universit?  de Strasbourg
>> 14, rue Descartes
>> BP 80010
>> F-67084 Strasbourg
>> France
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee)
>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe)
> 
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe)


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From hspier.muktabodha at gmail.com  Thu Feb  2 22:17:01 2017
From: hspier.muktabodha at gmail.com (Harry Spier)
Date: Thu, 02 Feb 17 17:17:01 -0500
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Taittiriya Pratisakya and gumkara
Message-ID: <CAPW7aQH4sxxA8oef2UZXroB6hqmKLYPA6L23VpDpTSbDfyCkzg@mail.gmail.com>

Dear list members,

In the chanting of the taittiriya samhita anusvara is pronounced as the so
called gumkara before sibilants, r and visarga.  A kind of "gum" or "gu"
sound.

I couldn't find any mention of the gumkara pronounciation of anusvara
before sibilants and snd visarga in the taittiriya pratisakhya.  My search
was somewhat superficial. I looked at Whitneys english translation using
the index entries for anusvara.

Can any list member confirm that the taittiriya pratisakhya doesn't have
any mention of pronouncing anusvara as "gum" beforre sibilants, r and
visarga.

If that is the case what does that mean? Does that mean the gumkara
pronounciation of anusvara in the taittiriya samhita is a post vedic
innovation?? And if so how late an innovation would it be?

Thanks,
Harry Spier


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From mehner at sub.uni-goettingen.de  Fri Feb  3 12:14:51 2017
From: mehner at sub.uni-goettingen.de (Mehner, Maximilian | GRETIL)
Date: Fri, 03 Feb 17 12:14:51 +0000
Subject: [INDOLOGY] GRETIL update #478
Message-ID: <C02B5C9E4F9BD14E998B70B231B092225CECE13C@UM-EXCDAG-A06.um.gwdg.de>

GRETIL is pleased to be able to report the following addition(s) to its collection:

Texts:
Nagaropamasutra<http://gretil.sub.uni-goettingen.de/#NagSu>
Haridasa [Svami Haridas]: Astadasa Siddhanta<http://gretil.sub.uni-goettingen.de/#HdAS>

Secondary Resources:
Cappeller: Sanskrit-W?rterbuch<http://gretil.sub.uni-goettingen.de/#CappSG>
Monier-Williams (1899): A Sanskrit-English Dictionary<http://gretil.sub.uni-goettingen.de/#MWSE>
Monier-Williams (1872): A Sanskrit-English Dictionary<http://gretil.sub.uni-goettingen.de/#MWSE72>
Schmidt: Nachtr?ge zum Sanskrit-W?rterbuch<http://gretil.sub.uni-goettingen.de/#SchNZSW>

__________________________________________________________________________
GRETIL - Goettingen Register of Electronic Texts in Indian Languages:
http://gretil.sub.uni-goettingen.de/gretil.htm


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From martin.gansten at pbhome.se  Fri Feb  3 15:58:23 2017
From: martin.gansten at pbhome.se (Martin Gansten)
Date: Fri, 03 Feb 17 16:58:23 +0100
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Indian criticisms of astrology?
Message-ID: <8491ad9c-5766-08ae-b5e7-8cb660973d8f@pbhome.se>

With apologies for cross-posting:

I should be interested to know if anyone is aware of Indian criticisms 
of astrology (particularly of the Hellenistic variety or /hor???stra/, 
although earlier forms of divinatory /nak?atravidy? /would also be 
relevant) and/or of divination generally, preferably criticisms 
formulated in the pre-Islamic era. I am familiar with the (relatively 
mild) censure of diviners found in the /dharma??stra/ literature, 
signalling the low social status of their occupation, but what I have in 
mind is criticism of the fundamental truth-claims of astrology -- 
basically, authors who claim that astrology (or divination generally) 
does not or cannot work.

Such criticism is often found in, say, Muslim or Christian contexts, but 
I have not so far encountered it in Sanskrit literature. Halbfass says 
in his /Karma und Wiedergeburt /that 'it can hardly be doubted' that the 
early stages of astrology in India saw a belief in an independent power 
of the stars to determine one's fate, not related to karma theory, but 
given the apparent lack of textual evidence I find it very easy to doubt 
this proposition. If astrology had presented a model of theodicy (using 
the term broadly) rivalling that of karma, I should have expected to see 
attacks on that model from proponents of many different schools. As it 
is, I am not aware of any astrological Sanskrit text proposing such an 
independent model, and indeed, even the earliest works seem explicitly 
to uphold the karma theory. But perhaps there are sources I have missed?

Martin Gansten
Lund University



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From John.Brockington at btinternet.com  Fri Feb  3 16:27:50 2017
From: John.Brockington at btinternet.com (John Brockington)
Date: Fri, 03 Feb 17 16:27:50 +0000
Subject: =?utf-8?Q?[INDOLOGY]__John_and_Mary_Brockington_R=C4=81m=C4=81ya=E1=B9=87a_archive:_update?=
Message-ID: <2b86ca58-cde2-b28b-88f1-bffbd8c7bcaf@btinternet.com>

Dear Colleagues,

We are pleased to announce that we have just updated our material on the 
Oxford Research Archive relating to the development and spread of the 
R?ma narrative (pre-modern) ? first deposited in January last year ? so 
that it can be available for others to consult even in its present, 
unfinished state.It can be accessed at the same location 
<<http://ora.ox.ac.uk/objects/uuid:8df9647a-8002-45ff-b37e-7effb669768b>http://ora.ox.ac.uk/objects/uuid:8df9647a-8002-45ff-b37e-7effb669768b> 
or you can find it via the Bodleian Libraries website, under ORA, by 
looking for its title, "Development and spread of the R?ma narrative 
(pre-modern)".

Because of the nature of our own contacts this message is being sent 
primarily to other Indologists but, if any of you are aware of 
colleagues in other fields (for example Southeast Asian languages or 
visual culture) who might be interested, do please pass the information 
on to them ? and similarly, if anyone has access to academic lists on 
which it could be posted, we would be grateful for its being sent to them.

With all good wishes

John and Mary

John Brockington
Emeritus Professor of Sanskrit, University of Edinburgh
Vice President, International Association of Sanskrit Studies

Mary Brockington
Research Fellow, International Association of Sanskrit Studies


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From slaje at kabelmail.de  Fri Feb  3 17:17:48 2017
From: slaje at kabelmail.de (Walter Slaje)
Date: Fri, 03 Feb 17 18:17:48 +0100
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Indian criticisms of astrology?
In-Reply-To: <8491ad9c-5766-08ae-b5e7-8cb660973d8f@pbhome.se>
Message-ID: <CALoZ1nUtpLz3NRyoONZ27qL6wU=CHf4k1xE5yz=_bWmxCAHRfQ@mail.gmail.com>

Dear Martin,


consequential criticism of astrologers can be found in the context of a
general criticism directed against the power of fate (*daiva*) and the
believers in fate in the *Mok?op?ya*, chapters II.4-9.

There, I am aware of two direct references to astrologers (see below), but
implicit criticism of daiva and ?j?as is also palpable in the *Mah?bh?rata*,
see my paper ?*N?sti daive prabhutvam.* Traces of demythologisation in
Indian Epic thought.? *Journal of Indian Philosophy* 26 (1998): 27-50.


Here are the passages from the Mok?op?ya:


k?lavidbhir vinir??t? yasy?sti ciraj?vit? |

sa cej j?vati sa?chinna?ir?s tad daivam uttamam || (*Mok?op?ya* II.8.17)

k?lavidbhi? [=] daivaj?ai? (*Mok?op?ya-??k?* II.8.17)



k?lavidbhir vinir??ta? p???itya? yasya r?ghava |

anadhy?pita ev?sau tajj?a? ced daivam uttamam || (*Mok?op?ya* II.8.18) ||

tajj?a? [=] pa??ita? (*Mok?op?ya-??k?* II.8.18)



8.17 Wenn derjenige, dem die Astrologen eine lange Lebensdauer
vorherbestimmt [haben], mit ge?spaltenem Haupt [weiter]?lebt, dann [steht]
das Schicksal ?ber [allem].

8.18 Wenn derjenige, dem die Astrologen Gelehrsamkeit vorherbestimmt
[haben], R?ghava, ein kenntnisreicher [Mensch wird], ganz ohne studiert zu
haben, dann [steht] das Schicksal ?ber [allem].



Text:

Anonymus Casmiriensi)s: *Mok?op?ya*). Historisch-kritische Gesamtausgabe. I-II.
*Das Erste und Zweite Buch. Vair?gyaprakara?a. Mumuk?uvyavah?raprakara?a.
Kritische Edition* von Susanne Krause-Stinner. Wiesbaden 2011.



German Translation:

Anonymus Casmiriensis: *Mok?op?ya*. Historisch-kritische Gesamtausgabe. I-II.
*Der Weg zur Befreiung. Das Erste und Zweite Buch. Das Buch ?ber die
Leidenschaftslosigkeit. Das Buch ?ber das Verhalten der Befreiungssucher.
?bersetzung* von Roland Steiner. Wiesbaden 2014.


Regards, Walter
?


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From anand.venkatkrishnan at gmail.com  Fri Feb  3 19:12:02 2017
From: anand.venkatkrishnan at gmail.com (Anand Venkatkrishnan)
Date: Fri, 03 Feb 17 19:12:02 +0000
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Indian criticisms of astrology?
In-Reply-To: <CALoZ1nUtpLz3NRyoONZ27qL6wU=CHf4k1xE5yz=_bWmxCAHRfQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAAKARYgovJ0AaJCOaNPAgZH-GNJOVV7ytpRqDoD+dBA+qTHJmA@mail.gmail.com>

Dear Martin,

The satirical *Kalivi?ambana* by N?laka??ha D?k?ita in the seventeenth
century famously contains a critique of astrologers (*jyauti?ka*), if not
of astrology *per se*, in vv. 14-22. E.g., v. 16:

?yu?pra?ne d?rgham ?yur v?cya? mauh?rtikair janai? |
j?vanto bahu manyante m?t?? prak?yanti ka? puna? ||

"If asked how long one will live,
An astrologer should predict a long life.
Those who survive will think greatly of him;
The dead can't question anybody."

It's possible to read verse 22 as N?laka??ha lumping together astrologers
with "fortune-tellers, dream interpreters, and divine oracles" as equally
bogus charlatans competing with each other.

Regards,
Anand

2017-02-03 17:17 GMT+00:00 Walter Slaje via INDOLOGY <
indology at list.indology.info>:

> Dear Martin,
>
>
> consequential criticism of astrologers can be found in the context of a
> general criticism directed against the power of fate (*daiva*) and the
> believers in fate in the *Mok?op?ya*, chapters II.4-9.
>
> There, I am aware of two direct references to astrologers (see below), but
> implicit criticism of daiva and ?j?as is also palpable in the
> *Mah?bh?rata*, see my paper ?*N?sti daive prabhutvam.* Traces of
> demythologisation in Indian Epic thought.? *Journal of Indian Philosophy*
> 26 (1998): 27-50.
>
>
> Here are the passages from the Mok?op?ya:
>
>
> k?lavidbhir vinir??t? yasy?sti ciraj?vit? |
>
> sa cej j?vati sa?chinna?ir?s tad daivam uttamam || (*Mok?op?ya* II.8.17)
>
> k?lavidbhi? [=] daivaj?ai? (*Mok?op?ya-??k?* II.8.17)
>
>
>
> k?lavidbhir vinir??ta? p???itya? yasya r?ghava |
>
> anadhy?pita ev?sau tajj?a? ced daivam uttamam || (*Mok?op?ya* II.8.18) ||
>
> tajj?a? [=] pa??ita? (*Mok?op?ya-??k?* II.8.18)
>
>
>
> 8.17 Wenn derjenige, dem die Astrologen eine lange Lebensdauer
> vorherbestimmt [haben], mit ge?spaltenem Haupt [weiter]?lebt, dann [steht]
> das Schicksal ?ber [allem].
>
> 8.18 Wenn derjenige, dem die Astrologen Gelehrsamkeit vorherbestimmt
> [haben], R?ghava, ein kenntnisreicher [Mensch wird], ganz ohne studiert zu
> haben, dann [steht] das Schicksal ?ber [allem].
>
>
>
> Text:
>
> Anonymus Casmiriensi)s: *Mok?op?ya*). Historisch-kritische Gesamtausgabe. I-II.
> *Das Erste und Zweite Buch. Vair?gyaprakara?a. Mumuk?uvyavah?raprakara?a.
> Kritische Edition* von Susanne Krause-Stinner. Wiesbaden 2011.
>
>
>
> German Translation:
>
> Anonymus Casmiriensis: *Mok?op?ya*. Historisch-kritische Gesamtausgabe. I-II.
> *Der Weg zur Befreiung. Das Erste und Zweite Buch. Das Buch ?ber die
> Leidenschaftslosigkeit. Das Buch ?ber das Verhalten der Befreiungssucher.
> ?bersetzung* von Roland Steiner. Wiesbaden 2014.
>
>
> Regards, Walter
> ?
>
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
> committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
> unsubscribe)
>



-- 
Anand Venkatkrishnan
Junior Research Fellow
Balliol College, Oxford
Ph.D. South Asian Religions
Columbia University (2015)


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From martin.gansten at pbhome.se  Fri Feb  3 19:13:29 2017
From: martin.gansten at pbhome.se (Martin Gansten)
Date: Fri, 03 Feb 17 20:13:29 +0100
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Indian criticisms of astrology?
In-Reply-To: <CALoZ1nUtpLz3NRyoONZ27qL6wU=CHf4k1xE5yz=_bWmxCAHRfQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <bf7559dd-8750-4661-e8ac-fd913c558766@pbhome.se>

Thank you, Walter, for these instances from the Mok?op?ya and for the 
reference to your paper, which I'll make sure to look up. As you say, 
the verses seem primarily to criticize the notion of fate or daiva, or 
at least of fate as more powerful than human effort. (Most astrologers 
would probably consider these to be straw-man arguments, but that's 
another matter.) The question they raise in my mind is whether the fate 
rejected by the author includes karma, as daiva is often equated with 
pr?rabdha-karma (/p?rvajanmak?ta? karma tad daivam iti kathyate, 
/ity?di). Do we know?

Of course, from a radical non-dualist perspective, sa?s?ra in its 
entirety, including cause and effect, karma and phala, etc, is illusory. 
Is that the perspective behind the Mok?op?ya's rejection of fate, or is 
the argument made on the level of 'conventional truth'? I am primarily 
interested in the latter: authors who argue that, for instance, karma is 
real, but astrology is false.

Thanks again,
Martin


Den 2017-02-03 kl. 18:17, skrev Walter Slaje:
>
> Dear Martin,
>
>
> consequential criticism of astrologers can be found in the context of 
> a general criticism directed against the power of fate (/daiva/) and 
> the believers in fate in the /Mok?op?ya/, chapters II.4-9.
>
> There, I am aware of two direct references to astrologers (see below), 
> but implicit criticism of daiva and ?j?as is also palpable in the 
> /Mah?bh?rata/, see my paper ?/N?sti daive prabhutvam./Traces of 
> demythologisation in Indian Epic thought.? /Journal of Indian 
> Philosophy/ 26 (1998): 27-50.
>
> [...]
>



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From slaje at kabelmail.de  Fri Feb  3 20:35:47 2017
From: slaje at kabelmail.de (Walter Slaje)
Date: Fri, 03 Feb 17 21:35:47 +0100
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Indian criticisms of astrology?
In-Reply-To: <bf7559dd-8750-4661-e8ac-fd913c558766@pbhome.se>
Message-ID: <CALoZ1nURCdeegUjjJsYmqSfSiHjvEToi4WHehNSLdK_-JFCR-Q@mail.gmail.com>

> daiva is often equated with pr?rabdha-karma (*p?rvajanmak?ta? karma tad
daivam iti kathyate, *ity?di). Do we know?


As far as the Mok?op?ya is concerned, we do.

> from a radical non-dualist perspective, sa?s?ra in its entirety,
including cause and effect, karma and phala, etc, is illusory. Is that the
perspective behind the Mok?op?ya's rejection of fate,


No, although the author (?Vasi??ha?) would subscribe to non-dualism from a
purely ontological angle.


> or is the argument made on the level of 'conventional truth'?


The retributive causality of karma operates on the empirical level of
existence, although within a certain framework only of principles that
manage our present universe. Karma is part of it.

There are, to be sure, parallel universes, each created by individual
creators (*brahm?, vir?j*, etc.), who are unaware of their adjacent equals.
The ?natural laws? governing those alien universes are unpredictable. They
depend entirely on the fancies of their originators, on the very first
ideas that befell those Brahm?-s the moment they started to identifying
themselves as ?creators?.


As a consequence, Vasi??ha entertains the idea of parallel universes, where
the natural laws known to us do not exist as we experience them here, as
they possibly did never occur to their creators in the same manner. Thus,
karma is restricted to our universe, because we cannot know anything about
the respective situations prevailing in our neighbouring universes.


Apart from this limitation from a broader philosophical perspective, the
crucial point from the empirical viewpoint of karma operating in our own
universe is this:

*daiva* is the result of past actions (*p?rva karman*). Past actions are
ultimately past efforts (*pauru?a*). As efforts, past and present efforts
do not differ in their nature. As they do not differ, it is possible to
conquer the results of past actions by stronger counteractive measures (
*para-pauru?a*) of today. Therefore, past karma can be overcome by human
effort. It is not inescapable. It cannot be  predicted by daivaj?as as they
cannot know the efforts a human might or might not be willing to take. For,
it is a matter of free will, and that is also a matter where the whole
topic becomes really interesting.


The idea behind the criticism of *daiva* in the Mok?op?ya in a nutshell:
Fatalists consider and present themselves as victims of fate. It is a lame
excuse, for actually they shy away from taking control of their own destiny
by making efforts. Thus spake Vasi??ha.

Enjoy.


?
?Walter?


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From eastwestcultural at yahoo.com  Fri Feb  3 22:27:04 2017
From: eastwestcultural at yahoo.com (Dean Michael Anderson)
Date: Fri, 03 Feb 17 22:27:04 +0000
Subject: [INDOLOGY] INDUS CIVILISATION.
In-Reply-To: <390766860.871401.1486160824395.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <390766860.871401.1486160824395@mail.yahoo.com>

Posted on behalf of N. Ganeshan:

I would like to draw attention to this paper on Munda expansion from South East Asia. ?http://www.rogerblench.info/Ar chaeology/SE%20Asia/Blench%20A A%20prehistory%20final.pdfMunda people expansion is said to be only from 3500 BP.Reconstructing Austroasiatic prehistoryby Roger Blench,Chapter in Jenny, M. & P. Sidwell (eds.) 2015. Handbook of the Austroasiatic Languages. Leiden: Brill.
Also, my three papers on Indus crocodile religion, its appearance as Anthropomorphic Axe in Tamil Nadu as monolithic sculptures during Early Iron Age:
(1) Gharial god and Tiger goddess in the Indus valley, Some aspects of Bronze Age Indian Religion, 2007https://archive.org/stream/IVC ReligionByNagaGanesan2007/IVC_ religion_by_Naga_Ganesan_2007# page/n0/mode/2up
(2) A Dravidian Etymology for Makara - Crocodile, 2011.Prof. V. I. Subramanian memorial volume, Int. School of Dravidian Linguistics, Trivandrum, Kerala.https://archive.org/stream/Mak araADravidianEtymology2011/Mak ara_a_Dravidian_etymology_2011 #page/n0/mode/2up
(3) Indus Crocodile Religion as seen in the Iron Age Tamil Nadu,16th World Sanskrit Conference, Bangkok, Thailand, 2016https://archive.org/stream/IVC ReligionInIronAgeTamilNaduByNG anesan-2016-16thWSC/IVC_Religi on_in_IronAge_TamilNadu_by_ NGanesan_2016_16th_WSC#page/ n0/mode/2up
N. Ganesan
On 27 Jan 2017 at 8:07, Andrew Ollett via INDOLOGY wrote:

I hesitate to pass this popular-science treatment of the question along, since it is tinged with
some personal animosity, but this just appeared two days ago:

http://www.theverge.com/2017/1 /25/14371450/indus-valley-civi lization-ancient-seals-symbols -language-algorithms-ai

2017-01-27 6:37 GMT-05:00 Asko Parpola via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info<mailto:indo logy at list.indology.info>>:
    In my book "The Roots of Hinduism: The Early Aryans and the Indus Civilization",
    New York: Oxford University Press, 2015,
    I present manifold evidence for the Dravidian affinity of the Harappan language.

    With best regards,

    Asko Parpola
    Professor Emeritus of Indology,
    University of Helsinki, Finland


    On Fri, Jan 27, 2017 at 8:31 AM, Dean Michael Anderson via INDOLOGY
    <indology at list.indology.info<mailto:indo logy at list.indology.info> > wrote:



    There is no consensus about which language or languages the
    Harappan (Indus Valley Civilization) people spoke.
    The script is considered by most to be logo-syllabic, not
    heiroglyphic.
    Farmer, Witzel, Sproat consider it to be a sign system rather than a
    script associated with any particular language.
    Best,
    Dean
    Dr. Dean Michael Anderson
    East West Cultural Institute
    Austin, Texas, USA
    Pondicherry, India

    From: alakendu das via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info<mailto:indo logy at list.indology.info>>
    To: indology at list.indology.info<mailto:indo logy at list.indology.info> Sent: Friday, January 27, 2017
    11:44 AM Subject: [INDOLOGY] INDUS CIVILISATION.
    To All, While going through some books on Indus valley civilisation
    , I failed to find out one answer. Though the Harappana & Mohenjo
    daro script has been inferred as more of a Hieroglyphic type, what
    dialect/language did they speak ? Would love to be enlightened on
    this point. ALAKEND DAS.


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From martin.gansten at pbhome.se  Sat Feb  4 07:55:28 2017
From: martin.gansten at pbhome.se (Martin Gansten)
Date: Sat, 04 Feb 17 08:55:28 +0100
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Indian criticisms of astrology?
In-Reply-To: <CALoZ1nURCdeegUjjJsYmqSfSiHjvEToi4WHehNSLdK_-JFCR-Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <ef63408a-5233-ae49-c483-6ad093c6e64b@pbhome.se>

Thank you for the clarifications, Walter.

> daiva is the result of past actions (/p?rva karman/). Past actions are 
> ultimately past efforts (/pauru?a/). As efforts, past and present 
> efforts do not differ in their nature. As they do not differ, it is 
> possible to conquer the results of past actions by stronger 
> counteractive measures (/para-pauru?a/) of today. Therefore, past 
> karma can be overcome by human effort. It is not inescapable. It 
> cannot be  predicted by daivaj?as as they cannot know the efforts a 
> human might or might not be willing to take. For, it is a matter of 
> free will, and that is also a matter where the whole topic becomes 
> really interesting.

The opinion of the author of the MU seems to differ only by degree from 
the general consensus of Indian astrologers, then: he claims that /all 
/effects of past action may be counteracted by present action; they say 
that /some /effects (/ad??ha-karman/) may be so counteracted, while 
others (/d??ha-karman/) are too powerful and therefore must take effect. 
Both operate within a framework of karma theory.

In the case of a person who is not willing to make any great effort to 
change his 'fate', then, I suppose our author would agree that the 
person's actions from previous lives will largely determine his present 
one. The question that I am really after is this: would he then accept 
the celestial mechanics studied and interpreted by astrologers as 
accurately reflecting such /karma-phala/? But perhaps that is not a 
topic that comes up in the MU.

Best wishes,
Martin



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From slaje at kabelmail.de  Sat Feb  4 10:21:45 2017
From: slaje at kabelmail.de (Walter Slaje)
Date: Sat, 04 Feb 17 11:21:45 +0100
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Indian criticisms of astrology?
In-Reply-To: <ef63408a-5233-ae49-c483-6ad093c6e64b@pbhome.se>
Message-ID: <CALoZ1nVbMfKEzg704BE4qVLkTfstiw5=g3AAQtSba6qnS44uGw@mail.gmail.com>

Dear Martin,


> The question that I am really after is this: would he then accept the
celestial mechanics studied and interpreted by astrologers as accurately
reflecting such *karma-phala*? But perhaps that is not a topic that comes
up in the MU.


This, I think, is absolutely correct. At least to my knowledge, there are
no such discussions.


> I suppose our author would agree that the person's actions from previous
lives will largely determine his present one.


I however hesitate to subscribe to that. From Vasi??ha?s many statements
made on *pauru?a* scattered all over his work, and also from the thematic
focus dedicated to it in Book II, his viewpoint appears to be a different
one. One passage is particularly telling in this regard. From it, it
becomes clear that the two opposing forces (previous efforts (= ?*karma*?)
vs. present efforts) are equal in their essence (as ?efforts?), but
naturally different in their strength. Ideas of a predetermination in the
sense of ?effort 1? (past) controlling ?effort 2? (present) are lacking.

In consequence of that the result depends solely on the superior fighting
power in the hour of clashing interests. When it comes to that, the
stronger (*atibala*) of the two will succeed (?*ji*).

The example is that of two fighting rams, equal in their essence of their
being rams, but each of different individual strength:

*dvau hu??v iva yudhyete puru??rthau sam?samau*

*?tm?ya? c?nyad?ya? ca* *jayaty atibalas tayo?* || (MU II.5.5)

*tayo?* [=] dvayo? puru??rthayo? madhye | *atibalo jayati *| *hu?a?* [=]
???gasahito m?gavi?e?a? (M?); *hu?au* [=] me?au (VTP).



Translation Steiner:

?Wie zwei B?cke bek?mpfen sich zwei [Arten von] Tatkraft, [die ihrer Art
nach] gleich, [an St?rke aber jeweils] ungleich sind: die zu einem selbst
und die zu einem anderen geh?rige [Tatkraft]. Von diesen beiden siegt die
[jeweils] st?rkere [Tatkraft].? (MU II, p. 179).


That human effort is seen as the supreme precondition in the soteriology of
the *V?si??hadar?ana* (as Bh?skaraka??ha called it) emerges also from
Vasi??ha?s judgment pronounced on *bhakti* and *bh?kta*s. As the latter,
too, would rather prefer to rely on salvific powers of gods instead of
making own efforts, he lashes the *vai??av? bhakti* politically incorrectly
as a concept developed for blockheads (*m?rkha*):


*??strayatnavic?rebhyo m?rkh???? prapal?yat?m |*

*kalpit? vai??av? bhakti? prav?ttyartha? ?ubhasthitau* || MU V.43.20 ||



?F?r die Toren, [die] vor dem [gedanklichen] Reflektieren unter den M?hen
des Lehrwerk[studiums] davonlaufen, [wurde] die Hingabe *(bhakti) *an Vi??u
ersonnen, damit [diese] sich in einen heilvollen Zustand begeben [k?nnen].?
(Der Weg zur Befreiung. Das F?nfte Buch. Das Buch ?ber das Zurruhekommen.
?bersetzung von Roland Steiner. Wiesbaden 2015.)



Thus, Vasi??ha seems to be quite consistent in his thought.



Best wishes, Walter
?


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From martin.gansten at pbhome.se  Sat Feb  4 14:07:43 2017
From: martin.gansten at pbhome.se (Martin Gansten)
Date: Sat, 04 Feb 17 15:07:43 +0100
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Indian criticisms of astrology?
In-Reply-To: <CALoZ1nVbMfKEzg704BE4qVLkTfstiw5=g3AAQtSba6qnS44uGw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <3368a9c7-7eda-8a60-ee41-553116193301@pbhome.se>

Thanks again, Walter, for confirming that there is no explicit 
discussion of astrology as an (in)accurate reflection of karma in the 
MU. Astrological texts repeatedly assert that the function of astrology 
is precisely to make the workings of karma visible, e.g. 
/V?ddhayavanaj?taka /1.3:

/y? p?rvakarmaprabhavasya dh?tr? dh?tr? lal??e likhit? pra?asti? |//
//t?? ??stram etat praka?a? vidhatte d?po yath? vastu ghane ?ndhak?re ||//
/
'This science reveals the edict carrying the impact of previous action, 
which was inscribed on one's forehead by the Creator, even as a lamp 
[reveals] an object in utter darkness.'

> Ideas of a predetermination in the sense of ?effort 1? (past) 
> controlling ?effort 2? (present) are lacking.
>
> In consequence of that the result depends solely on the superior 
> fighting power in the hour of clashing interests. When it comes to 
> that, the stronger (atibala) of the two will succeed (?/ji/).

Yes, I did get that point, which is why I specified 'In the case of a 
person who is not willing to make any great effort'.

Best wishes,
Martin



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From witzel at fas.harvard.edu  Sat Feb  4 15:48:13 2017
From: witzel at fas.harvard.edu (Witzel, Michael)
Date: Sat, 04 Feb 17 15:48:13 +0000
Subject: [INDOLOGY] INDUS CIVILISATION.
In-Reply-To: <661103488.968330.1486169609254@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <FF1026DD-AA31-4291-AB29-3C2302FC6710@fas.harvard.edu>

Dear All,
Re: Blench et al. (below) on a South-East Asian origin of Munda (and other Austroasiatic languages), the opposite position has been argued by P. Donegan and D. Stampe (U. Hawai?i, M?noa) :
P Donegan, D Stampe. Rhythm and the synthetic drift of Munda<https://books.google.com/books?hl=en&lr=&id=GHzXs3FHeFUC&oi=fnd&pg=PA3&dq=donegan+stampe&ots=KjInYVFx7-&sig=daQvRdCqtP0TUypIvOcXYnAMqEo>. The yearbook of South Asian languages ?, 2004

The polarity of Munda vs Mon-Khmer recalls that of ancient vs modern Indo-European:
synthetic head-last vs analytic head-first (Lehmann 1974). But Munda and Mon-Khmer are
far more divergent. Indo-European was never/w/ysynthetic, but many Munda languages are...

P Donegan, D Stampe. South-East Asian Features in the Munda Languages: Evidence for the analytic-to-synthetic drift of Munda<http://www.ling.hawaii.edu/faculty/donegan/Papers/2002mundadrift.pdf> Proceedings of the Twenty-Eighth Annual ?, 2002.
The Munda (South Asian) and Mon-Khmer (South-East Asian) branches of the Austroasiatic
language family are so exactly opposite at every level of structure that Sir George Grierson
in his Linguistic Survey of India remarked that if they were descended from a common ...

cf. also:  http://ling.lll.hawaii.edu/austroasiatic/AA/rhythm1983.pdf

http://www.rogerblench.info/Ar chaeology/SE%20Asia/Blench%20A A%20prehistory%20final.pdf<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.rogerblench.info_Archaeology_SE-2520Asia_Blench-2520AA-2520prehistory-2520final.pdf&d=CwMFaQ&c=WO-RGvefibhHBZq3fL85hQ&r=tFXzIbyKS2C0TpVqKsMrj46qwsAermBN5wzaDe51So0&m=he3VBRBYUqYb2aD3vFDO3b3dYNbfiOg9FavfOaJTbVE&s=ST8bUE4HIn08fZ5VRA4xzanm3dDi0DRcQr4BXIRD0uo&e=>
Munda people expansion is said to be only from 3500 BP.
Reconstructing Austroasiatic prehistory
by Roger Blench,
Chapter in Jenny, M. & P. Sidwell (eds.) 2015. Handbook of the Austroasiatic Languages. Leiden: Brill.



More on the  Indus languages (and signs) separately, when I get a moment.
Cheers,
M.Witzel



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From witzel at fas.harvard.edu  Sat Feb  4 18:24:17 2017
From: witzel at fas.harvard.edu (Witzel, Michael)
Date: Sat, 04 Feb 17 18:24:17 +0000
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Harvard's Nepal Studies activity in Kathmandu (and Cambridge MA)
Message-ID: <F69E3BBB-8036-454A-B817-F65AF53703E3@fas.harvard.edu>

I would like to draw the attention of those (currently) in Nepal to the first activity of our new Nepal Studies Program:
A Year and a Half Later: Are Reasonable Lessons Being Learned to Prepare for the Next Earthquake? Reports from a Harvard-Nepal Working Exercise
Friday, Feb. 10, 5:30pm - 7:00pm, Hotel Yak & Yeti, Kathmandu, Nepal
Special Event
Jerold Kayden, Frank Backus Williams Professor of Urban Planning and Design, Harvard Graduate School of Design
Sarita Maskey, Joint Secretary, Ministry of Urban Development, Nepal Government
Shriju Pradhan, Deputy Director, Urban Housing and Heritage Conservation Division, National Reconstruction Authority
David Sanderson, Judith Nielsen Chair, University of New South Wales
Anshu Sharma, Co-founder and Chief Mentor, SEEDS
In partnership with University of New South Wales, Tribhuwan University, Kathmandu University, and Harvard Alumni Group of Nepal


To be followed by a presentation at Harvard:

Mon, February 13, 2017 from 05:00pm - 06:30pm  /  CGIS South, S030<http://southasiainstitute.harvard.edu/events/venue/cgis-south-s030/>
Debrief Nepal: Reflections on In-Country Working Exercise<http://southasiainstitute.harvard.edu/event/debrief-nepal-reflections-on-in-country-working-exercise/>
Special Event
Jerold Kayden, Frank Backus Williams Professor of Urban Planning and Design, Harvard Graduate School of Design
Shriju Pradhan, Deputy Director, Urban Housing and Heritage Conservation Division, National Reconstruction Authority
David Sanderson, Judith Nielsen Chair, University of New South Wales
Anshu Sharma, Co-founder and Chief Mentor, SEEDS

Although scientists can say with near certainty that a major earthquake will strike the Kathmandu Valley in the future, they cannot predict with certainty when that major earthquake will strike.  Such uncertainty generates another kind of uncertainty, about what to do now, in the near term, and in the long term.  It can even facilitate delays in needed decision-making.  Nepali stakeholders, drawn from government, civil society, and the private sector, joined several outside participants in a just-completed one-day exercise using rapid scenario planning methods to unlock implementable ideas for securing an earthquake-resilient Kathmandu Valley. They will report on the outcome of the working exercise during this panel discussion.

Reception to Follows

This initiative is part of the Harvard South Asia Institute?s Nepal Studies Program<http://southasiainstitute.harvard.edu/2016/12/sai-launches-nepal-studies-program/>, launched with generous support from Jeffrey M. Smith.
This initiative is co-sponsored by University of New South Wales

=================
Cf.  announcement of Nepal Program : http://southasiainstitute.harvard.edu/2016/12/sai-launches-nepal-studies-program/



Cheers,

Michael W>






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From SamuelG at cardiff.ac.uk  Sat Feb  4 23:48:39 2017
From: SamuelG at cardiff.ac.uk (Geoffrey Samuel)
Date: Sat, 04 Feb 17 23:48:39 +0000
Subject: [INDOLOGY] ICTAM IX: Ninth Congress of the International Association for the Study of Traditional Asian Medicine
In-Reply-To: <F69E3BBB-8036-454A-B817-F65AF53703E3@fas.harvard.edu>
Message-ID: <FC5DF78C-F899-4E71-832D-D65756EF4A3D@cardiff.ac.uk>

Early Bird Registration for ICTAM IX has opened on February 1. Registration is open to anyone who would like to attend the conference at the following link:



https://www.ictam2017.uni-kiel.de/en/registration<http://iastam.us3.list-manage.com/track/click?u=12583387d7dc9ada296624818&id=d83082d13c&e=9476bb314f>



We are happy to inform you that the Early Bird registration fee includes a three-year membership of IASTAM!



Note: Please remember that registration is necessary to attend the conference. During registration, you will also be able to request a letter of invitation for visa purposes.



Visit our website to see the hotel options:
https://www.ictam2017.uni-kiel.de/en/about-location/accommodation<http://iastam.us3.list-manage.com/track/click?u=12583387d7dc9ada296624818&id=fd41e71f24&e=9476bb314f>



We very much look forward to this vibrant event and to having you all here in Kiel in August!


Sincerely,

Angelika Messner, Convener, ICTAM IX, and the Organizing committee

Geoffrey Samuel, President IASTAM


School of Languages and Cultures, University of Sydney
http://sydney.edu.au/arts/slc/staff/profiles/geoffrey.samuel.php?apcode=ACADPROFILE300808
International Association for the Study of Traditional Asian Medicine
http://iastam.org/





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From eastwestcultural at yahoo.com  Sun Feb  5 02:05:43 2017
From: eastwestcultural at yahoo.com (Dean Michael Anderson)
Date: Sun, 05 Feb 17 02:05:43 +0000
Subject: [INDOLOGY] INDUS CIVILISATION.
In-Reply-To: <FF1026DD-AA31-4291-AB29-3C2302FC6710@fas.harvard.edu>
Message-ID: <922225739.1565061.1486260343426@mail.yahoo.com>

Thanks for posting those articles Michael. The probable influence of Munda on the IVC is an area that has not been emphasized enough, imho.
Best,

Dean


      From: "Witzel, Michael" <witzel at fas.harvard.edu>
 To: Indology <indology at list.indology.info> 
Cc: "Witzel, Michael" <witzel at fas.harvard.edu>; Steve Farmer <saf at safarmer.com>; Dean Michael Anderson <eastwestcultural at yahoo.com>
 Sent: Saturday, February 4, 2017 9:18 PM
 Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] INDUS CIVILISATION.
   

Dear All,

Re: Blench et al. (below) on a South-East Asian origin of Munda (and other Austroasiatic languages), the opposite position has been argued by P. Donegan and D. Stampe (U. Hawai?i, M?noa) :

P?Donegan, D?Stampe.?Rhythm and the synthetic drift of Munda.?The yearbook of South Asian languages ?, 2004?

The polarity of Munda vs Mon-Khmer recalls that of ancient vs modern Indo-European:
synthetic head-last vs analytic head-first (Lehmann 1974). But Munda and Mon-Khmer are
far more divergent. Indo-European was never/w/ysynthetic, but many Munda languages are...


P?Donegan, D?Stampe.?South-East Asian Features in the Munda Languages: Evidence for the analytic-to-synthetic drift of Munda?Proceedings of the Twenty-Eighth Annual ?, 2002.
The Munda (South Asian) and Mon-Khmer (South-East Asian) branches of the Austroasiatic
language family are so exactly opposite at every level of structure that Sir George Grierson
in his Linguistic Survey of India remarked that if they were descended from a common ...
cf. also: ?http://ling.lll.hawaii.edu/austroasiatic/AA/rhythm1983.pdf



http://www.rogerblench.info/Ar chaeology/SE%20Asia/Blench%20A A%20prehistory%20final.pdfMunda people expansion is said to be only from 3500 BP.Reconstructing Austroasiatic prehistoryby Roger Blench,Chapter in Jenny, M. & P. Sidwell (eds.) 2015. Handbook of the Austroasiatic Languages. Leiden: Brill.





More on the ?Indus languages (and signs) separately, when I get a moment.Cheers,?M.Witzel


   


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From nakeerthi at gmail.com  Sun Feb  5 03:18:37 2017
From: nakeerthi at gmail.com (naresh keerthi)
Date: Sun, 05 Feb 17 08:48:37 +0530
Subject: =?utf-8?Q?[INDOLOGY]_Resource_for_Bh=C4=81=E1=B9=A3=C4=81_dictionaries?=
Message-ID: <CACcR+FB0u4N36w5kVm5ctmQ8n6fkp6JbxfS0=5-baCuZ6yOJkw@mail.gmail.com>

Dear Scholars,


This below website is a great resource for lexicographic (and language
learning) material in the Indian *de?abh??a*-s. I was particularly happy to
be able to download and refer the voluminous 8 volume Kanna?a-Kanna?a
Nigha??u, published by the *Kanna?a S?hitya Pari?attu*.



http://bharatavani.in/


Best Regards,
Naresh Keerthi
National Institute of Advanced Studies, Bangalore


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From c.malcolm.keating at gmail.com  Sun Feb  5 11:21:26 2017
From: c.malcolm.keating at gmail.com (Malcolm Keating)
Date: Sun, 05 Feb 17 06:21:26 -0500
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Trivandrum Sanskrit Series #150
In-Reply-To: <CAF2ecWsg5c9V_0gq2LaxA651G=HDxwSTPqc6ka27ZsZ0oLRrdQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAF2ecWsWC94HmMh+AtCofZvFbvTsR9P3MGm=-SpDG6OZnq6uvg@mail.gmail.com>

Dear list members,
I am looking for a scan of Trivandrum Sanskrit Series Volume 150 (part 3 of
Sucaritami?ra?s K??ika on the ?lokav?rttika). It looks like Prof. Deshpande
answered this same query in April 2016 with a WeTransfer link for the
volume, but it has now expired. If anyone has a newer link, I would
appreciate it.

Best,
Malcolm

-- 
Malcolm Keating
Yale-NUS College | Assistant Professor | Humanities Division (Philosophy) |
malcolm.keating at yale-nus.edu.sg | www.malcolmkeating.com


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From paoloe.rosati at gmail.com  Sun Feb  5 11:30:20 2017
From: paoloe.rosati at gmail.com (Paolo Eugenio Rosati)
Date: Sun, 05 Feb 17 12:30:20 +0100
Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_[INDOLOGY]=09=C5=9Aiva_(linga),_the_mountain_and_the_blue_colour?=
In-Reply-To: <CADSGPzWbJuC72Ox6ntFqdjbsNaGmBotxfGq0reaZEa0wr8FtdQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAMOCTf8W9_Jm6L=Hp-ppb9S_aBHM=B3806yPw6N9gOPQdi3XLQ@mail.gmail.com>

Dear Dhaval,

the verse of *KP *is 67.57:

*The Goddess Yoganidr? having been concealed in me *[?iva]*, myself having
the form of a mountain, and the female organ *[yoni]* of the goddess having
been fallen on that mountain, the mountain turned into dark blue.*  (trans.
B. Shastri [1991] 2008)

Best,
Paolo


On 4 February 2017 at 16:13, dhaval patel <drdhaval2785 at gmail.com> wrote:

>
>
> On 1 Feb 2017 17:38, "Paolo Eugenio Rosati via INDOLOGY" <
> indology at list.indology.info> wrote:
>
> Dear indologists,
>
> I am looking for Puranic references that link together Shiva, the blue
> colour and the mountain.
>
> E.g.: in *Kalikapurana *is narrated that Nilacala turned its colour into
> blue because of the touch of the *yoni*, although the mountain was
> already identified with Shiva (and its linga) -- thus it may be (probably)
> assumed/hypothesised that the association between blue and Shiva was
> provoked by the *shakti *of the Goddess.
>
>
> An exact reproduction of verses mentioning this episode will shed more
> light on it. That may also help one search for similar episodes in other
> puranas, if any.
>
>


-- 
Paolo E. Rosati
Oriental Archaeologist
PhD candidate in "Civilizations of Asia and Africa"
South Asia Section
Dep. Italian Institute of Oriental Studies/ISO
'Sapienza' University of Rome
*https://uniroma1.academia.edu/PaoloRosati/
<https://uniroma1.academia.edu/PaoloRosati/>*
paoloe.rosati at uniroma1.it
paoloe.rosati at gmail.com
Skype: paoloe.rosati
Mobile: (+39) 338 73 83 472


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From mmdesh at umich.edu  Sun Feb  5 12:01:06 2017
From: mmdesh at umich.edu (Madhav Deshpande)
Date: Sun, 05 Feb 17 07:01:06 -0500
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Trivandrum Sanskrit Series #150
In-Reply-To: <CAF2ecWsWC94HmMh+AtCofZvFbvTsR9P3MGm=-SpDG6OZnq6uvg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAB3-dzfqF4nOF6LVZB5GEd5sait0AZYyXvjGdvsjieBnpJH0FA@mail.gmail.com>

Hello Malcolm,

     I have sent this volume to you using WeTransfer.  Here is the download
link:

https://we.tl/rH9qwHSwef

The link will remain alive for the next 7 days.

Madhav Deshpande

On Sun, Feb 5, 2017 at 6:21 AM, Malcolm Keating via INDOLOGY <
indology at list.indology.info> wrote:

> Dear list members,
> I am looking for a scan of Trivandrum Sanskrit Series Volume 150 (part 3
> of Sucaritami?ra?s K??ika on the ?lokav?rttika). It looks like Prof.
> Deshpande answered this same query in April 2016 with a WeTransfer link for
> the volume, but it has now expired. If anyone has a newer link, I would
> appreciate it.
>
> Best,
> Malcolm
>
> --
> Malcolm Keating
> Yale-NUS College | Assistant Professor | Humanities Division (Philosophy)
> | malcolm.keating at yale-nus.edu.sg | www.malcolmkeating.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
> committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
> unsubscribe)
>


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From c.malcolm.keating at gmail.com  Sun Feb  5 12:04:55 2017
From: c.malcolm.keating at gmail.com (Malcolm Keating)
Date: Sun, 05 Feb 17 07:04:55 -0500
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Trivandrum Sanskrit Series #150
In-Reply-To: <CAB3-dzfqF4nOF6LVZB5GEd5sait0AZYyXvjGdvsjieBnpJH0FA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAF2ecWtn5=uZc8S3X8k_HJMDbVnZO=BExffUupiMbTVETHThBw@mail.gmail.com>

Thanks for your very quick reply!

On February 5, 2017 at 20:01:47, Madhav Deshpande (mmdesh at umich.edu) wrote:

Hello Malcolm,

     I have sent this volume to you using WeTransfer.  Here is the download
link:

https://we.tl/rH9qwHSwef

The link will remain alive for the next 7 days.

Madhav Deshpande

On Sun, Feb 5, 2017 at 6:21 AM, Malcolm Keating via INDOLOGY <
indology at list.indology.info> wrote:

> Dear list members,
> I am looking for a scan of Trivandrum Sanskrit Series Volume 150 (part 3
> of Sucaritami?ra?s K??ika on the ?lokav?rttika). It looks like Prof.
> Deshpande answered this same query in April 2016 with a WeTransfer link for
> the volume, but it has now expired. If anyone has a newer link, I would
> appreciate it.
>
> Best,
> Malcolm
>
> --
> Malcolm Keating
> Yale-NUS College | Assistant Professor | Humanities Division (Philosophy)
> | malcolm.keating at yale-nus.edu.sg | www.malcolmkeating.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
> committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
> unsubscribe)
>


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From wujastyk at gmail.com  Mon Feb  6 00:08:03 2017
From: wujastyk at gmail.com (Dominik Wujastyk)
Date: Sun, 05 Feb 17 17:08:03 -0700
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Trivandrum Sanskrit Series #150
In-Reply-To: <CAF2ecWsWC94HmMh+AtCofZvFbvTsR9P3MGm=-SpDG6OZnq6uvg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAKdt-CezzsT__n9shS+sQZA+1+f9vS0LA9B4ys1oH2zgJDYbGQ@mail.gmail.com>

For those who may not know, a large number of the TSS volumes are scanned
and on archive.org:

https://archive.org/details/Trivandrum_Sanskrit_Series_TSS


?
--
Professor Dominik Wujastyk <http://ualberta.academia.edu/DominikWujastyk>
?,?

Singhmar Chair in Classical Indian Society and Polity
?,?

Department of History and Classics <http://historyandclassics.ualberta.ca/>
?,?
University of Alberta, Canada
?.?

South Asia at the U of A:

?sas.ualberta.ca?
??


On 5 February 2017 at 04:21, Malcolm Keating via INDOLOGY <
indology at list.indology.info> wrote:

> Dear list members,
> I am looking for a scan of Trivandrum Sanskrit Series Volume 150 (part 3
> of Sucaritami?ra?s K??ika on the ?lokav?rttika). It looks like Prof.
> Deshpande answered this same query in April 2016 with a WeTransfer link for
> the volume, but it has now expired. If anyone has a newer link, I would
> appreciate it.
>
> Best,
> Malcolm
>
> --
> Malcolm Keating
> Yale-NUS College | Assistant Professor | Humanities Division (Philosophy)
> | malcolm.keating at yale-nus.edu.sg | www.malcolmkeating.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
> committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
> unsubscribe)
>


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From Palaniappa at aol.com  Mon Feb  6 02:03:10 2017
From: Palaniappa at aol.com (Sudalaimuthu Palaniappan)
Date: Sun, 05 Feb 17 20:03:10 -0600
Subject: [INDOLOGY] INDUS CIVILISATION.
In-Reply-To: <390766860.871401.1486160824395@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <B4C6A642-68DF-4F85-860E-3F2C0BB3DD74@aol.com>

I would like to note that we have discussed in detail Ganesan?s etymologies here in a couple of threads in January and April of 2015. The following post is one that may be of interest to those interested in these etymologies.
http://list.indology.info/pipermail/indology_list.indology.info/2015-January/040639.html <http://list.indology.info/pipermail/indology_list.indology.info/2015-January/040639.html> 

Regards,
Palaniappan


> On Feb 3, 2017, at 4:27 PM, Dean Michael Anderson via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info> wrote:
> 
> Posted on behalf of N. Ganeshan:
> 
> I would like to draw attention to this paper on Munda expansion from South East Asia.  
> http://www.rogerblench.info/Ar chaeology/SE%20Asia/Blench%20A A%20prehistory%20final.pdf <http://www.rogerblench.info/Archaeology/SE%20Asia/Blench%20AA%20prehistory%20final.pdf>
> Munda people expansion is said to be only from 3500 BP.
> Reconstructing Austroasiatic prehistory
> by Roger Blench,
> Chapter in Jenny, M. & P. Sidwell (eds.) 2015. Handbook of the Austroasiatic Languages. Leiden: Brill.
> 
> Also, my three papers on Indus crocodile religion, its appearance as Anthropomorphic Axe in Tamil Nadu as monolithic sculptures during Early Iron Age:
> 
> (1) Gharial god and Tiger goddess in the Indus valley, Some aspects of Bronze Age Indian Religion, 2007
> https://archive.org/stream/IVC ReligionByNagaGanesan2007/IVC_ religion_by_Naga_Ganesan_2007# page/n0/mode/2up <https://archive.org/stream/IVCReligionByNagaGanesan2007/IVC_religion_by_Naga_Ganesan_2007#page/n0/mode/2up>
> 
> (2) A Dravidian Etymology for Makara - Crocodile, 2011.
> Prof. V. I. Subramanian memorial volume, Int. School of Dravidian Linguistics, Trivandrum, Kerala.
> https://archive.org/stream/Mak araADravidianEtymology2011/Mak ara_a_Dravidian_etymology_2011 #page/n0/mode/2up <https://archive.org/stream/MakaraADravidianEtymology2011/Makara_a_Dravidian_etymology_2011#page/n0/mode/2up>
> 
> (3) Indus Crocodile Religion as seen in the Iron Age Tamil Nadu,
> 16th World Sanskrit Conference, Bangkok, Thailand, 2016
> https://archive.org/stream/IVC ReligionInIronAgeTamilNaduByNG anesan-2016-16thWSC/IVC_Religi on_in_IronAge_TamilNadu_by_ NGanesan_2016_16th_WSC#page/ n0/mode/2up <https://archive.org/stream/IVCReligionInIronAgeTamilNaduByNGanesan-2016-16thWSC/IVC_Religion_in_IronAge_TamilNadu_by_NGanesan_2016_16th_WSC#page/n0/mode/2up>
> 
> N. Ganesan
> 
> On 27 Jan 2017 at 8:07, Andrew Ollett via INDOLOGY wrote:
> 
> I hesitate to pass this popular-science treatment of the question along, since it is tinged with
> some personal animosity, but this just appeared two days ago:
> 
> http://www.theverge.com/2017/1 /25/14371450/indus-valley-civi lization-ancient-seals-symbols -language-algorithms-ai <http://www.theverge.com/2017/1/25/14371450/indus-valley-civilization-ancient-seals-symbols-language-algorithms-ai>
> 
> 2017-01-27 6:37 GMT-05:00 Asko Parpola via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info <http://list.indology.info/mailman/listinfo/indology_list.indology.info><mailto:indo logy <mailto:indology> at list.indology.info <http://list.indology.info/>>>:
>     In my book "The Roots of Hinduism: The Early Aryans and the Indus Civilization",
>     New York: Oxford University Press, 2015,
>     I present manifold evidence for the Dravidian affinity of the Harappan language.
> 
>     With best regards,
> 
>     Asko Parpola
>     Professor Emeritus of Indology,
>     University of Helsinki, Finland
> 
> 
>     On Fri, Jan 27, 2017 at 8:31 AM, Dean Michael Anderson via INDOLOGY
>     <indology at list.indology.info <http://list.indology.info/mailman/listinfo/indology_list.indology.info><mailto:indo logy at list.indology.info <http://list.indology.info/mailman/listinfo/indology_list.indology.info>> > wrote:
> 
> 
> 
>     There is no consensus about which language or languages the
>     Harappan (Indus Valley Civilization) people spoke.
>     The script is considered by most to be logo-syllabic, not
>     heiroglyphic.
>     Farmer, Witzel, Sproat consider it to be a sign system rather than a
>     script associated with any particular language.
>     Best,
>     Dean
>     Dr. Dean Michael Anderson
>     East West Cultural Institute
>     Austin, Texas, USA
>     Pondicherry, India
> 
>     From: alakendu das via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info <http://list.indology.info/mailman/listinfo/indology_list.indology.info><mailto:indo logy at list.indology.info <http://list.indology.info/mailman/listinfo/indology_list.indology.info>>>
>     To: indology at list.indology.info <http://list.indology.info/mailman/listinfo/indology_list.indology.info><mailto:indo logy at list.indology.info <http://list.indology.info/mailman/listinfo/indology_list.indology.info>> Sent: Friday, January 27, 2017
>     11:44 AM Subject: [INDOLOGY] INDUS CIVILISATION.
>     To All, While going through some books on Indus valley civilisation
>     , I failed to find out one answer. Though the Harappana & Mohenjo
>     daro script has been inferred as more of a Hieroglyphic type, what
>     dialect/language did they speak ? Would love to be enlightened on
>     this point. ALAKEND DAS.
> 
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe)



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From drdhaval2785 at gmail.com  Mon Feb  6 05:20:36 2017
From: drdhaval2785 at gmail.com (dhaval patel)
Date: Mon, 06 Feb 17 10:50:36 +0530
Subject: [INDOLOGY] SK XML version 1.1.0 - vArtikas markup added
Message-ID: <CADSGPzXEdWZ8JeF3aNhQrpegKWv=DLsV-NxjQ2Oy3=9G7=kJCw@mail.gmail.com>

Dear all,
In pursuance of this subject posted earlier,
now version 1.1.0 of the XML file is presented herewith.

https://github.com/drdhaval2785/siddhantakaumudi/releases/tag/v1.1.0

v1.1.0 Changelog -
1. Added markup for all vArtikas mentioned in SK.
2. HTML and epub format added for easy viewing.

Date - 2017-01-06

https://github.com/drdhaval2785/siddhantakaumudi/issues are the pending
issues where scholars can contribute with their time or ideas.


-- 
Dr. Dhaval Patel, I.A.S
Collector and District Magistrate, Anand
www.sanskritworld.in


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From sprajapati22 at yahoo.com  Mon Feb  6 06:05:52 2017
From: sprajapati22 at yahoo.com (Dr. Sweta Prajapati)
Date: Mon, 06 Feb 17 06:05:52 +0000
Subject: [INDOLOGY] call for papers
In-Reply-To: <1845885665.1489067.1486361153025.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1845885665.1489067.1486361153025@mail.yahoo.com>

Dear Members,
We are happy to announce that volume 65 of Journal of Oriental Institute, Baroda is published. Now we are preparing for the 66th volume of our Journal. Kindly see the attachment and contribute your learned article for our Journal.
Thanking you,?Dr. Sweta PrajapatiDirector (I/C)Oriental InstituteOpp. Palace Gate,Palace Road,Baroda - 390001M: +91 9898472669E-mail ID. sprajapati22 at yahoo.com


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From sprajapati22 at yahoo.com  Mon Feb  6 06:35:02 2017
From: sprajapati22 at yahoo.com (Dr. Sweta Prajapati)
Date: Mon, 06 Feb 17 06:35:02 +0000
Subject: [INDOLOGY] call for papers
In-Reply-To: <1235167362.1489357.1486362902386.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1235167362.1489357.1486362902386@mail.yahoo.com>

Dear Members,
Please find the attachment. ?Dr. Sweta PrajapatiDirector (I/C)Oriental InstituteOpp. Palace Gate,Palace Road,Baroda - 390001M: +91 9898472669E-mail ID. sprajapati22 at yahoo.com


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From ganesan at ifpindia.org  Mon Feb  6 06:43:23 2017
From: ganesan at ifpindia.org (Dr. T. Ganesan)
Date: Mon, 06 Feb 17 12:13:23 +0530
Subject: [INDOLOGY] call for papers
In-Reply-To: <1235167362.1489357.1486362902386@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <0342bc57-9ba3-7b97-4c93-256791fb2f36@ifpindia.org>



No attachment is found.


Ganesan




On 06-02-2017 12:05, Dr. Sweta Prajapati via INDOLOGY wrote:
> Dear Members,
>
> Please find the attachment.
> Dr. Sweta Prajapati
> Director (I/C)
> Oriental Institute
> Opp. Palace Gate,
> Palace Road,
> Baroda - 390001
> M: +91 9898472669
> E-mail ID. sprajapati22 at yahoo.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
>


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From sprajapati22 at yahoo.com  Mon Feb  6 11:55:02 2017
From: sprajapati22 at yahoo.com (Dr. Sweta Prajapati)
Date: Mon, 06 Feb 17 11:55:02 +0000
Subject: [INDOLOGY] attachment
In-Reply-To: <170958882.1616536.1486382102251.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <170958882.1616536.1486382102251@mail.yahoo.com>

MembersSee attachment
Sweta Prajapati

Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android


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From sprajapati22 at yahoo.com  Mon Feb  6 12:39:03 2017
From: sprajapati22 at yahoo.com (Dr. Sweta Prajapati)
Date: Mon, 06 Feb 17 12:39:03 +0000
Subject: [INDOLOGY] attachment
In-Reply-To: <1934745431.1624506.1486384743038.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1934745431.1624506.1486384743038@mail.yahoo.com>

Attachment
Sweta

Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android


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From karp at uw.edu.pl  Mon Feb  6 18:20:42 2017
From: karp at uw.edu.pl (Artur Karp)
Date: Mon, 06 Feb 17 19:20:42 +0100
Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_[INDOLOGY]_Bas=C3=ADlica_do_Bom_Jesus_in_Konkani_and_Hindi?=
In-Reply-To: <CALNcvFvtVWOrgH-XP4_-CrEFnA-=HxczMKfUs3auQCLv9WjbaQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CALNcvFv+3OQXbpc13MKTsQ=++s9Ny9vq0-zwrM5trB906Bj9QQ@mail.gmail.com>

Dear Colleagues,

Is it possible that no one on the List has access to Konkani descriptions
of the Goan Basilica do Bom Jesus?

With sad regards,

Artur Karp

2017-01-31 10:15 GMT+01:00 Artur Karp <karp at uw.edu.pl>:

> Dear List,
>
> I am involved in the preparation of the supplement to the *Official List
> of Polish Geographical Names of the World *- already published in 2005,
> by the Head Office of Geodesy and Cartography (G??wny Urz?d Geodezji i
> Kartografii), Warsaw, Poland -  and accessible at:
>
> https://www.academia.edu/9062314/Azja_Po%C5%82udniowa_Artur_
> Karp_ed._Nazewnictwo_geograficzne_%C5%9Awiata_Zeszyt_4_G%C5%
> 82%C3%B3wny_Urz%C4%85d_Geodezji_i_Kartografii_Warszawa_2005
>
> The supplement  - planned to be published as the *Official List of Polish
> Names of Historical Monuments and Buildings of the World *- is  to
> include formal names of selected important South Asian historical
> buildings/monuments; a provisional, not yet completed list, is accessible
> at:
>
> https://www.academia.edu/23167699/Nazwy_budowli_-_Azja_Po%C5
> %82udniowa_Names_of_buildings_and_other_architectural_monume
> nts_in_South_Asia_
>
> Usually, I do not have problems in locating the formal, official names of
> geographical objects in India.
>
> The *Bas?lica do Bom Jesus*, however,  eludes me. What I come across is *Borea
> Jezuchi Bajilika, *as at:
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basilica_of_Bom_Jesus
>
> Since the presumably Konkani name is already a transliteration, it cannot
>  serve as the basis for precise transliteration and the Polish
> transcription.
>
> What I need are VERY FORMAL names of the Basilica - both in *Hindi* and
> *Konkani *- such as those formally used and published in the Indian
> Catholic Church sources.
>
> If you would give me the names as they are written in Devanagari, I could
> easily transliterate them - using myself the ISO 15919 rules of
> Romanization.
>
> Thank you in advance for your kind help,
>
> Artur Karp (ret.)
> South Asian Studies Dept.
> University of Warsaw
> Poland
>


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From collinb1 at ohio.edu  Mon Feb  6 18:56:13 2017
From: collinb1 at ohio.edu (Collins, Brian)
Date: Mon, 06 Feb 17 18:56:13 +0000
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Ashtanga Pranama
Message-ID: <5EE3B0DE-3E9F-4600-A987-B3866C06E72B@ohio.edu>

Dear Indologists,

A colleague?s student is looking for sources on the practice of ashtanga pranama and I am not coming up with anything very useful. Suggestions?

Thanks,
Brian




Asst. Prof. Brian Collins
Drs. Ram and Sushila Gawande Chair in Indian Religion and Philosophy
210J Ellis Hall
Ohio University
Athens, OH 45701
740-597-2103






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From mkapstei at uchicago.edu  Mon Feb  6 20:27:55 2017
From: mkapstei at uchicago.edu (Matthew Kapstein)
Date: Mon, 06 Feb 17 20:27:55 +0000
Subject: [INDOLOGY]  Image search
Message-ID: <82C3E42590D939418C74DD76B97DDED047C0F7AA@xm-mbx-06-prod>

Dear friends,

Might any of you know which collection owns this drawing of the Mughal prince
Dara Shikoh conversing with a Pandit?



[cid:71f3fd69-c76f-4ba2-ae3f-fec3acf25369]




thanks in advance for any leads,
Matthew

Matthew Kapstein
Directeur d'?tudes,
Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes

Numata Visiting Professor of Buddhist Studies,
The University of Chicago
________________________________



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From jknutson at hawaii.edu  Tue Feb  7 02:53:07 2017
From: jknutson at hawaii.edu (Jesse Knutson)
Date: Mon, 06 Feb 17 16:53:07 -1000
Subject: =?utf-8?Q?[INDOLOGY]_L=C3=A9vi:_Pour_L'Histoire_du_R=C4=81m=C4=81ya=E1=B9=87a?=
Message-ID: <CAAiVBEUTzCRpR14w_tL7noq33Dfn8LhssS3q6wTydEx6fTFv2Q@mail.gmail.com>

Dear Friends, Does anyone by chance have a soft copy of Sylvain L?vi's* Pour
L'Histoire du R?m?ya?a*? Thanks and best,J

-- 
Jesse Ross Knutson PhD
Assistant Professor of Sanskrit and Bengali, Department of Indo-Pacific
Languages and Literatures
University of Hawai'i at M?noa
461 Spalding


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From jknutson at hawaii.edu  Tue Feb  7 03:36:36 2017
From: jknutson at hawaii.edu (Jesse Knutson)
Date: Mon, 06 Feb 17 17:36:36 -1000
Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_[INDOLOGY]_L=C3=A9vi:_Pour_L'Histoire_du_R=C4=81m=C4=81ya=E1=B9=87a?=
In-Reply-To: <CAAiVBEUTzCRpR14w_tL7noq33Dfn8LhssS3q6wTydEx6fTFv2Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAAiVBEVwUNSpQxZOW9jCmJTCRZmO48c2nKKpgwXBr6hnQWtv4w@mail.gmail.com>

Sorry All, I misread the reference. I thought it was an untraceable book,
but it is actually a long article in Journal Asiatique from 1918. I can
pass it on if anyone is interested. Best,J

On Mon, Feb 6, 2017 at 4:53 PM, Jesse Knutson <jknutson at hawaii.edu> wrote:

> Dear Friends, Does anyone by chance have a soft copy of Sylvain L?vi's* Pour
> L'Histoire du R?m?ya?a*? Thanks and best,J
>
> --
> Jesse Ross Knutson PhD
> Assistant Professor of Sanskrit and Bengali, Department of Indo-Pacific
> Languages and Literatures
> University of Hawai'i at M?noa
> 461 Spalding
>



-- 
Jesse Ross Knutson PhD
Assistant Professor of Sanskrit and Bengali, Department of Indo-Pacific
Languages and Literatures
University of Hawai'i at M?noa
461 Spalding


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From Palaniappa at aol.com  Tue Feb  7 06:30:09 2017
From: Palaniappa at aol.com (Sudalaimuthu Palaniappan)
Date: Tue, 07 Feb 17 00:30:09 -0600
Subject: [INDOLOGY] INDUS CIVILISATION.
In-Reply-To: <922225739.1565061.1486260343426@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <DE80909A-60ED-486E-A86E-B58F9DC12BA8@aol.com>

In connection with the Indus Civilization issue, some may be interested to know that one of the Padma award recipients this year is Michel Danino, who is a Guest Professor at IIT, Gandhinagar (http://www.iitgn.ac.in/faculty/humanities/michel.htm <http://www.iitgn.ac.in/faculty/humanities/michel.htm>, with a link to his publications). He is also a member of ICHR, nominated by the current Indian Government. 

Regards,
Palaniappan


> On Feb 4, 2017, at 8:05 PM, Dean Michael Anderson via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info> wrote:
> 
> Thanks for posting those articles Michael. The probable influence of Munda on the IVC is an area that has not been emphasized enough, imho.
> 
> Best,
> 
> Dean
> 
> 
> From: "Witzel, Michael" <witzel at fas.harvard.edu>
> To: Indology <indology at list.indology.info> 
> Cc: "Witzel, Michael" <witzel at fas.harvard.edu>; Steve Farmer <saf at safarmer.com>; Dean Michael Anderson <eastwestcultural at yahoo.com>
> Sent: Saturday, February 4, 2017 9:18 PM
> Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] INDUS CIVILISATION.
> 
> Dear All,
> 
> Re: Blench et al. (below) on a South-East Asian origin of Munda (and other Austroasiatic languages), the opposite position has been argued by P. Donegan and D. Stampe (U. Hawai?i, M?noa) :
> 
> P Donegan, D Stampe. Rhythm and the synthetic drift of Munda <https://books.google.com/books?hl=en&lr=&id=GHzXs3FHeFUC&oi=fnd&pg=PA3&dq=donegan+stampe&ots=KjInYVFx7-&sig=daQvRdCqtP0TUypIvOcXYnAMqEo>. The yearbook of South Asian languages ?, 2004 
> 
> 
> The polarity of Munda vs Mon-Khmer recalls that of ancient vs modern Indo-European: 
> synthetic head-last vs analytic head-first (Lehmann 1974). But Munda and Mon-Khmer are 
> far more divergent. Indo-European was never/w/ysynthetic, but many Munda languages are...
> 
> P Donegan, D Stampe. South-East Asian Features in the Munda Languages: Evidence for the analytic-to-synthetic drift of Munda <http://www.ling.hawaii.edu/faculty/donegan/Papers/2002mundadrift.pdf> Proceedings of the Twenty-Eighth Annual ?, 2002.
> 
> The Munda (South Asian) and Mon-Khmer (South-East Asian) branches of the Austroasiatic 
> language family are so exactly opposite at every level of structure that Sir George Grierson 
> in his Linguistic Survey of India remarked that if they were descended from a common ...
> 
> cf. also:  http://ling.lll.hawaii.edu/austroasiatic/AA/rhythm1983.pdf <http://ling.lll.hawaii.edu/austroasiatic/AA/rhythm1983.pdf>
> 
>>>> http://www.rogerblench.info/Ar chaeology/SE%20Asia/Blench%20A A%20prehistory%20final.pdf <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.rogerblench.info_Archaeology_SE-2520Asia_Blench-2520AA-2520prehistory-2520final.pdf&d=CwMFaQ&c=WO-RGvefibhHBZq3fL85hQ&r=tFXzIbyKS2C0TpVqKsMrj46qwsAermBN5wzaDe51So0&m=he3VBRBYUqYb2aD3vFDO3b3dYNbfiOg9FavfOaJTbVE&s=ST8bUE4HIn08fZ5VRA4xzanm3dDi0DRcQr4BXIRD0uo&e=>
>>>> Munda people expansion is said to be only from 3500 BP.
>>>> Reconstructing Austroasiatic prehistory
>>>> by Roger Blench,
>>>> Chapter in Jenny, M. & P. Sidwell (eds.) 2015. Handbook of the Austroasiatic Languages. Leiden: Brill.
>>>> 
>>>> 
>> 
> More on the  Indus languages (and signs) separately, when I get a moment.
> Cheers, 
> M.Witzel
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe)



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From sprajapati22 at yahoo.com  Tue Feb  7 10:33:26 2017
From: sprajapati22 at yahoo.com (Dr. Sweta Prajapati)
Date: Tue, 07 Feb 17 10:33:26 +0000
Subject: [INDOLOGY] ATTACHMENT
In-Reply-To: <388023356.2362484.1486463607068.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <388023356.2362484.1486463607068@mail.yahoo.com>

PFA?Dr. Sweta PrajapatiDirector (I/C)Oriental InstituteOpp. Palace Gate,Palace Road,Baroda - 390001M: +91 9898472669E-mail ID. sprajapati22 at yahoo.com


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From ganesan at ifpindia.org  Tue Feb  7 10:46:02 2017
From: ganesan at ifpindia.org (Dr. T. Ganesan)
Date: Tue, 07 Feb 17 16:16:02 +0530
Subject: [INDOLOGY] ATTACHMENT
In-Reply-To: <388023356.2362484.1486463607068@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <bb5f1cc0-3e66-21cb-57eb-7281a91feae0@ifpindia.org>

NO ATTACHED FILE AT ALL.

PLEASE VERIFY BEFORE SENDING.




Ganesan







On 07-02-2017 16:03, Dr. Sweta Prajapati via INDOLOGY wrote:
> PFA
> Dr. Sweta Prajapati
> Director (I/C)
> Oriental Institute
> Opp. Palace Gate,
> Palace Road,
> Baroda - 390001
> M: +91 9898472669
> E-mail ID. sprajapati22 at yahoo.com
>


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From arlogriffiths at hotmail.com  Tue Feb  7 12:17:43 2017
From: arlogriffiths at hotmail.com (Arlo Griffiths)
Date: Tue, 07 Feb 17 12:17:43 +0000
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Third International Intensive Course in Old Javanese
Message-ID: <HE1PR0801MB177254D1C811487364BB12C8A5430@HE1PR0801MB1772.eurprd08.prod.outlook.com>

Dear colleagues,


Please see here <http://www.efeo.fr/base.php?code=806> for the announcement of the third edition of our international intensive course in Old Javanese, where we welcome participation of Sanskrit scholars. Please forward to anyone who might be interested.


Best wishes,


Andrea Acri and Arlo Griffiths



Second International Intensive course in Old Javanese - EFEO<http://www.efeo.fr/base.php?code=806>
www.efeo.fr
Trawas, Mojokerto, East Java, Indonesia - 31 July through 15 August 2015. organized by the National Library of the Republic of Indonesia (Perpusnas) in collaboration ...




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From paoloe.rosati at gmail.com  Tue Feb  7 13:16:41 2017
From: paoloe.rosati at gmail.com (Paolo Eugenio Rosati)
Date: Tue, 07 Feb 17 14:16:41 +0100
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Devipurana (2)
Message-ID: <CAMOCTf9j=QAM9Oc3fQ5033-uHG233bCCAFEzwAJNuwaKbLQrNg@mail.gmail.com>

Dear list,

I am looking for a couple of references from the *Devipurana*.

I found---throughout secundary literature---some references that probably
derived from this edition:

*Dev?pur??a*, ed. with a Bengali translation by Pancanana Tarkaratna.
Calcutta, 1928.

while I have got (thanks to the list!) this edition:
*Dev?pur??a*. Kumar, Sharma P. (ed.) 1976. *Dev? Pur??am*. New Delhi: Sri
Lal Bahadur Shastri Kendriya Sanskrit Vidyapeeth.

Actually I do not know if the two eds are based on different mss, but I was
unable to find out verse (39.6) that should says:

*yajed ... devIM kAmAkhye girikandare *(Van Kooij 1972, 32n3---based on
Bengali trans.)

although some scholars wrote that in this verse should also be a reference
to the son of Bhumi (earth goddess) and cited the Kumar ed. (v.
39.6b)---but in Kumar ed. there is the verse that speak of Kamakhya neither
it speak about a "Bhauma".

The second part that I am looking for is a so-called* Appendix 1 list 7*
(cit. in Dehejia 1986, Yogini Cult and Temples), although in her
bibliography it is not cited any *DP *ms or edition. Thus, I imagine this
appendix was somewhere through the Kumar ed. (or maybe not) or perhaps she
confused with another text?!
Dehejia wrote that in this list were enumerated 64 devi-pithas from which
depend on the two *yogini *lists of the *Kalikapurana *(Chs. 54 and 63, in
B. Shastri [1991] 2008).

I wish someone could help in find out the verse and the appendix that I was
unable to find out from Kumar ed. of *DP*.

Best wishes,
Paolo

-- 
Paolo E. Rosati
Oriental Archaeologist
PhD candidate in "Civilizations of Asia and Africa"
South Asia Section
Dep. Italian Institute of Oriental Studies/ISO
'Sapienza' University of Rome
*https://uniroma1.academia.edu/PaoloRosati/
<https://uniroma1.academia.edu/PaoloRosati/>*
paoloe.rosati at uniroma1.it
paoloe.rosati at gmail.com
Skype: paoloe.rosati
Mobile: (+39) 338 73 83 472


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From paoloe.rosati at gmail.com  Tue Feb  7 13:31:28 2017
From: paoloe.rosati at gmail.com (Paolo Eugenio Rosati)
Date: Tue, 07 Feb 17 14:31:28 +0100
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Devipurana (2)
In-Reply-To: <CAMOCTf9j=QAM9Oc3fQ5033-uHG233bCCAFEzwAJNuwaKbLQrNg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAMOCTf_yvu=zXHSR_+eOcU3Faf1tA0xxsEoWzQraK9ukUTzFFw@mail.gmail.com>

sorry for mistyping

*but in Kumar ed. there is NOT the verse that speaks of Kamakhya neither
(in Kumar ed.) it speaks about a "Bhauma".

On 7 February 2017 at 14:16, Paolo Eugenio Rosati <paoloe.rosati at gmail.com>
wrote:

> Dear list,
>
> I am looking for a couple of references from the *Devipurana*.
>
> I found---throughout secundary literature---some references that probably
> derived from this edition:
>
> *Dev?pur??a*, ed. with a Bengali translation by Pancanana Tarkaratna.
> Calcutta, 1928.
>
> while I have got (thanks to the list!) this edition:
> *Dev?pur??a*. Kumar, Sharma P. (ed.) 1976. *Dev? Pur??am*. New Delhi: Sri
> Lal Bahadur Shastri Kendriya Sanskrit Vidyapeeth.
>
> Actually I do not know if the two eds are based on different mss, but I
> was unable to find out verse (39.6) that should says:
>
> *yajed ... devIM kAmAkhye girikandare *(Van Kooij 1972, 32n3---based on
> Bengali trans.)
>
> although some scholars wrote that in this verse should also be a reference
> to the son of Bhumi (earth goddess) and cited the Kumar ed. (v.
> 39.6b)---but in Kumar ed. there is the verse that speak of Kamakhya neither
> it speak about a "Bhauma".
>
> The second part that I am looking for is a so-called* Appendix 1 list 7*
> (cit. in Dehejia 1986, Yogini Cult and Temples), although in her
> bibliography it is not cited any *DP *ms or edition. Thus, I imagine this
> appendix was somewhere through the Kumar ed. (or maybe not) or perhaps she
> confused with another text?!
> Dehejia wrote that in this list were enumerated 64 devi-pithas from which
> depend on the two *yogini *lists of the *Kalikapurana *(Chs. 54 and 63,
> in B. Shastri [1991] 2008).
>
> I wish someone could help in find out the verse and the appendix that I
> was unable to find out from Kumar ed. of *DP*.
>
> Best wishes,
> Paolo
>
> --
> Paolo E. Rosati
> Oriental Archaeologist
> PhD candidate in "Civilizations of Asia and Africa"
> South Asia Section
> Dep. Italian Institute of Oriental Studies/ISO
> 'Sapienza' University of Rome
> *https://uniroma1.academia.edu/PaoloRosati/
> <https://uniroma1.academia.edu/PaoloRosati/>*
> paoloe.rosati at uniroma1.it
> paoloe.rosati at gmail.com
> Skype: paoloe.rosati
> Mobile: (+39) 338 73 83 472
>



-- 
Paolo E. Rosati
Oriental Archaeologist
PhD candidate in "Civilizations of Asia and Africa"
South Asia Section
Dep. Italian Institute of Oriental Studies/ISO
'Sapienza' University of Rome
*https://uniroma1.academia.edu/PaoloRosati/
<https://uniroma1.academia.edu/PaoloRosati/>*
paoloe.rosati at uniroma1.it
paoloe.rosati at gmail.com
Skype: paoloe.rosati
Mobile: (+39) 338 73 83 472


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From wujastyk at gmail.com  Wed Feb  8 02:33:42 2017
From: wujastyk at gmail.com (Dominik Wujastyk)
Date: Tue, 07 Feb 17 19:33:42 -0700
Subject: [INDOLOGY] attachment
In-Reply-To: <1934745431.1624506.1486384743038@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <CAKdt-Cesd1PY=3-i6kRjHuoNzUKOPpK-N-4WELKS642rnK3xDw@mail.gmail.com>

There is an upper limit on the size of attachments; maybe the attachment
exceeded it?  I suggest putting the file somewhere else on a server, and
sending the forum the URL.

Sincerely,
Dominik Wujastyk
INDOLOGY committee?

On 6 February 2017 at 05:39, Dr. Sweta Prajapati via INDOLOGY <
indology at list.indology.info> wrote:

> Attachment
>
> Sweta
>
> Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android
> <https://overview.mail.yahoo.com/mobile/?.src=Android>
>
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
> committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
> unsubscribe)
>


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From sprajapati22 at yahoo.com  Wed Feb  8 06:48:51 2017
From: sprajapati22 at yahoo.com (Dr. Sweta Prajapati)
Date: Wed, 08 Feb 17 06:48:51 +0000
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Fw: Call for Papers.pdf
In-Reply-To: <001a114949c8e51ad40547ff33f4@google.com>
Message-ID: <1406350792.249959.1486536531433@mail.yahoo.com>

?Dr. Sweta PrajapatiDirector (I/C)Oriental InstituteOpp. Palace Gate,Palace Road,Baroda - 390001M: +91 9898472669E-mail ID. sprajapati22 at yahoo.com

     
----- Forwarded Message -----
 From: sweta prajapati (via Google Drive) <swetamsu at gmail.com>
 To: sprajapati22 at yahoo.com 
 Sent: Wednesday, February 8, 2017 12:14 PM
 Subject: Call for Papers.pdf
   
sweta prajapati has shared the following file:Call for Papers.pdfOpenThis email grants access to this item without logging in. Only forward it to people you trust.
| 
|  |  |  |
|  |  |  |
|  |  |  |

 |  | 
|  |  |  |
|  |  |  |
|  |  |  |

 |


| Google Drive: Have all your files within reach from any device. 
Google Inc. 1600 Amphitheatre Parkway, Mountain View, CA 94043, USA |  |



   


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From karin.preisendanz at univie.ac.at  Thu Feb  9 00:35:03 2017
From: karin.preisendanz at univie.ac.at (Karin.Preisendanz)
Date: Thu, 09 Feb 17 01:35:03 +0100
Subject: [INDOLOGY] job advertisement at the University of Vienna
Message-ID: <67fc8faf6101e21fcdbc64fa2862d1f8@univie.ac.at>

Dear colleagues,

The University of Vienna is announcing the position of a University 
Assistant (pre-doctoral) in the area of the study of pre-modern South 
Asia at its Department of South Asian, Tibetan and Buddhist Studies. For 
further details, see the attachment in German and English.

I would be very grateful to you if you would post the advertisement at 
your Department and pass it on to the circle of interested persons.

With many thanks and best regards,

Karin Preisendanz

-- 
Karin Preisendanz
Institut f?r S?dasien-, Tibet- und Buddhismuskunde
Universit?t Wien
Spitalgasse 2-4, Hof 2, Eingang 2.1
A-1090 Wien
?sterreich
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From andrea.acri at ephe.sorbonne.fr  Thu Feb  9 10:06:30 2017
From: andrea.acri at ephe.sorbonne.fr (Andrea Acri)
Date: Thu, 09 Feb 17 11:06:30 +0100
Subject: [INDOLOGY] INDUS CIVILISATION.
In-Reply-To: <FF1026DD-AA31-4291-AB29-3C2302FC6710@fas.harvard.edu>
Message-ID: <A5183A68-4120-45E0-B4C6-AC4D5C413C63@ephe.sorbonne.fr>

It is worth noting that problems still exist in the classification of Austroasiatic languages, and an increasing number of scholars (like Geoffrey Benjamin) now think that the Munda languages do not form a primary-level subdivision of Austroasiatic separate from Mon-Khmer, and the very term ?Mon-Khmer? is currently being replaced by ?Austroasiatic?. Sidwell (2013:454) points out that this ?is an unfolding story that, however it pans out, promises to offer important insights into the origins and nature of cultural diversity in South and Southeast Asia?.

See:
Paul Sidwell, 2013, ?Issues in Austroasiatic Classification?, Language and Linguistics Compass 7/8 (2013): 437?457.

Paul Sidwell, 2015, ?Chapter 3: Austroasiatic Classification?, in M. Jenny and P. Sidwell (ends), The Handbook of Austroasiatic Languages, Vol. 1.

Best

Andrea Acri
Ma?tre de conf?rences
?tudes tantriques/Tantric Studies
?cole Pratique des Hautes ?tudes (Sciences Religieuses), Paris
andrea.acri at ephe.sorbonne.fr
Publications at: www.ephe.academia.edu/AndreaAcri

> Le 4 f?vr. 2017 ? 16:48, Witzel, Michael via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info> a ?crit :
> 
> Dear All,
> 
> Re: Blench et al. (below) on a South-East Asian origin of Munda (and other Austroasiatic languages), the opposite position has been argued by P. Donegan and D. Stampe (U. Hawai?i, M?noa) :
> 
> P Donegan, D Stampe. Rhythm and the synthetic drift of Munda <https://books.google.com/books?hl=en&lr=&id=GHzXs3FHeFUC&oi=fnd&pg=PA3&dq=donegan+stampe&ots=KjInYVFx7-&sig=daQvRdCqtP0TUypIvOcXYnAMqEo>. The yearbook of South Asian languages ?, 2004 
> 
> 
> The polarity of Munda vs Mon-Khmer recalls that of ancient vs modern Indo-European: 
> synthetic head-last vs analytic head-first (Lehmann 1974). But Munda and Mon-Khmer are 
> far more divergent. Indo-European was never/w/ysynthetic, but many Munda languages are...
> 
> P Donegan, D Stampe. South-East Asian Features in the Munda Languages: Evidence for the analytic-to-synthetic drift of Munda <http://www.ling.hawaii.edu/faculty/donegan/Papers/2002mundadrift.pdf> Proceedings of the Twenty-Eighth Annual ?, 2002.
> 
> The Munda (South Asian) and Mon-Khmer (South-East Asian) branches of the Austroasiatic 
> language family are so exactly opposite at every level of structure that Sir George Grierson 
> in his Linguistic Survey of India remarked that if they were descended from a common ...
> 
> cf. also:  http://ling.lll.hawaii.edu/austroasiatic/AA/rhythm1983.pdf <http://ling.lll.hawaii.edu/austroasiatic/AA/rhythm1983.pdf>
> 
>>>> http://www.rogerblench.info/Ar chaeology/SE%20Asia/Blench%20A A%20prehistory%20final.pdf <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.rogerblench.info_Archaeology_SE-2520Asia_Blench-2520AA-2520prehistory-2520final.pdf&d=CwMFaQ&c=WO-RGvefibhHBZq3fL85hQ&r=tFXzIbyKS2C0TpVqKsMrj46qwsAermBN5wzaDe51So0&m=he3VBRBYUqYb2aD3vFDO3b3dYNbfiOg9FavfOaJTbVE&s=ST8bUE4HIn08fZ5VRA4xzanm3dDi0DRcQr4BXIRD0uo&e=>
>>>> Munda people expansion is said to be only from 3500 BP.
>>>> Reconstructing Austroasiatic prehistory
>>>> by Roger Blench,
>>>> Chapter in Jenny, M. & P. Sidwell (eds.) 2015. Handbook of the Austroasiatic Languages. Leiden: Brill.
>>>> 
>>>> 
>> 
> More on the  Indus languages (and signs) separately, when I get a moment.
> Cheers, 
> M.Witzel
> 
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe)



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From christophe.vielle at uclouvain.be  Thu Feb  9 13:19:04 2017
From: christophe.vielle at uclouvain.be (Christophe Vielle)
Date: Thu, 09 Feb 17 14:19:04 +0100
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Devipurana (2)
In-Reply-To: <CAMOCTf9j=QAM9Oc3fQ5033-uHG233bCCAFEzwAJNuwaKbLQrNg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <044D7726-7864-49AD-ACB4-81C62A287454@uclouvain.be>

Hazra's Studies in the Upapur??as vol. 2 (1963) deals extensively with the DeviiP pp. 46-239. He refers to the Bengali characters (Vangavasi Press) ed. as the only one existing at that time.
The v. 6b of ch. 39 is given p. 63 fn. 127 as:
> yajed bhaumaatmajo devii.m kaamaakhye girikandare
The presentation of the chap. 39 at the same page says:
"Names of holy places in which Devii was worshipped in her different forms by different gods, sages and kinds (including Jaamadagnya, Bhauma's son, Vibhii.sa.na and Raajasena) viz., [...] Ki.skindhyaa-parvata [...]"
I do not see in his detailed description (nor in the following one of the KaalikaaP) reference to such a list of 64 devii-pii.thas.
Hope it may help,
Best wishes,
Christophe


Le 7 f?vr. 2017 ? 14:16, Paolo Eugenio Rosati via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info> a ?crit :

> Dear list,
> 
> I am looking for a couple of references from the Devipurana.
> 
> I found---throughout secundary literature---some references that probably derived from this edition: 
> 
> Dev?pur??a, ed. with a Bengali translation by Pancanana Tarkaratna. Calcutta, 1928.
> 
> while I have got (thanks to the list!) this edition:
> Dev?pur??a. Kumar, Sharma P. (ed.) 1976. Dev? Pur??am. New Delhi: Sri Lal Bahadur Shastri Kendriya Sanskrit Vidyapeeth. 
> 
> Actually I do not know if the two eds are based on different mss, but I was unable to find out verse (39.6) that should says:
> 
> yajed ... devIM kAmAkhye girikandare (Van Kooij 1972, 32n3---based on Bengali trans.)
> 
> although some scholars wrote that in this verse should also be a reference to the son of Bhumi (earth goddess) and cited the Kumar ed. (v. 39.6b)---but in Kumar ed. there is the verse that speak of Kamakhya neither it speak about a "Bhauma".
> 
> The second part that I am looking for is a so-called Appendix 1 list 7 (cit. in Dehejia 1986, Yogini Cult and Temples), although in her bibliography it is not cited any DP ms or edition. Thus, I imagine this appendix was somewhere through the Kumar ed. (or maybe not) or perhaps she confused with another text?! 
> Dehejia wrote that in this list were enumerated 64 devi-pithas from which depend on the two yogini lists of the Kalikapurana (Chs. 54 and 63, in B. Shastri [1991] 2008).
> 
> I wish someone could help in find out the verse and the appendix that I was unable to find out from Kumar ed. of DP.
> 
> Best wishes,
> Paolo
> 
> -- 
> Paolo E. Rosati
> Oriental Archaeologist
> PhD candidate in "Civilizations of Asia and Africa"
> South Asia Section
> Dep. Italian Institute of Oriental Studies/ISO
> 'Sapienza' University of Rome
> https://uniroma1.academia.edu/PaoloRosati/
> paoloe.rosati at uniroma1.it
> paoloe.rosati at gmail.com
> Skype: paoloe.rosati
> Mobile: (+39) 338 73 83 472
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe)

???????????????????
Christophe Vielle
Louvain-la-Neuve



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From paoloe.rosati at gmail.com  Thu Feb  9 14:06:39 2017
From: paoloe.rosati at gmail.com (Paolo Eugenio Rosati)
Date: Thu, 09 Feb 17 15:06:39 +0100
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Devipurana (2)
In-Reply-To: <044D7726-7864-49AD-ACB4-81C62A287454@uclouvain.be>
Message-ID: <CAMOCTf_ROOc17OqeE05fmq020A0yTkKbwPaEi9rKuRTp1Fj9LA@mail.gmail.com>

Dear Christophe,

thanks, I did not think to have a look of other secondary publications.
Thus, I suppose the verse is right and it should appears somewhere also in
the DP ed. of P. Kumar.

On the other hand, I think Dehejia mis-cited *DP *(in fact it did not
appear in final bibliography) and probably she confused with
*Devibhagavatapurana* although there are two lists there, the first
composed of 108 places and the second (in the devigita section) composed of
71 or 72 (if you consider also Varanasi as the seat where all the goddess's
forms resides together). Very strange.

Best,
Paolo





On 9 February 2017 at 14:19, Christophe Vielle <
christophe.vielle at uclouvain.be> wrote:

> Hazra's *Studies in the Upapur**??as *vol. 2 (1963) deals extensively
> with the DeviiP pp. 46-239. He refers to the Bengali characters (Vangavasi
> Press) ed. as the only one existing at that time.
> The v. 6b of ch. 39 is given p. 63 fn. 127 as:
>
> *yajed bhaumaatmajo devii.m kaamaakhye girikandare*
>
> The presentation of the chap. 39 at the same page says:
> "Names of holy places in which Devii was worshipped in her different forms
> by different gods, sages and kinds (including Jaamadagnya, *Bhauma's son*,
> Vibhii.sa.na and Raajasena) viz., [...] Ki.skindhyaa-parvata [...]"
> I do not see in his detailed description (nor in the following one of the
> KaalikaaP) reference to such a list of 64 devii-pii.thas.
> Hope it may help,
> Best wishes,
> Christophe
>
>
> Le 7 f?vr. 2017 ? 14:16, Paolo Eugenio Rosati via INDOLOGY <
> indology at list.indology.info> a ?crit :
>
> Dear list,
>
> I am looking for a couple of references from the *Devipurana*.
>
> I found---throughout secundary literature---some references that probably
> derived from this edition:
>
> *Dev?pur??a*, ed. with a Bengali translation by Pancanana Tarkaratna.
> Calcutta, 1928.
>
> while I have got (thanks to the list!) this edition:
> *Dev?pur??a*. Kumar, Sharma P. (ed.) 1976. *Dev? Pur??am*. New Delhi: Sri
> Lal Bahadur Shastri Kendriya Sanskrit Vidyapeeth.
>
> Actually I do not know if the two eds are based on different mss, but I
> was unable to find out verse (39.6) that should says:
>
> *yajed ... devIM kAmAkhye girikandare *(Van Kooij 1972, 32n3---based on
> Bengali trans.)
>
> although some scholars wrote that in this verse should also be a reference
> to the son of Bhumi (earth goddess) and cited the Kumar ed. (v.
> 39.6b)---but in Kumar ed. there is the verse that speak of Kamakhya neither
> it speak about a "Bhauma".
>
> The second part that I am looking for is a so-called* Appendix 1 list 7*
> (cit. in Dehejia 1986, Yogini Cult and Temples), although in her
> bibliography it is not cited any *DP *ms or edition. Thus, I imagine this
> appendix was somewhere through the Kumar ed. (or maybe not) or perhaps she
> confused with another text?!
> Dehejia wrote that in this list were enumerated 64 devi-pithas from which
> depend on the two *yogini *lists of the *Kalikapurana *(Chs. 54 and 63,
> in B. Shastri [1991] 2008).
>
> I wish someone could help in find out the verse and the appendix that I
> was unable to find out from Kumar ed. of *DP*.
>
> Best wishes,
> Paolo
>
> --
> Paolo E. Rosati
> Oriental Archaeologist
> PhD candidate in "Civilizations of Asia and Africa"
> South Asia Section
> Dep. Italian Institute of Oriental Studies/ISO
> 'Sapienza' University of Rome
> *https://uniroma1.academia.edu/PaoloRosati/
> <https://uniroma1.academia.edu/PaoloRosati/>*
> paoloe.rosati at uniroma1.it
> paoloe.rosati at gmail.com
> Skype: paoloe.rosati
> Mobile: (+39) 338 73 83 472
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
> committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
> unsubscribe)
>
>
> ???????????????????
> Christophe Vielle <http://www.uclouvain.be/christophe.vielle>
> Louvain-la-Neuve
>
>


-- 
Paolo E. Rosati
Oriental Archaeologist
PhD candidate in "Civilizations of Asia and Africa"
South Asia Section
Dep. Italian Institute of Oriental Studies/ISO
'Sapienza' University of Rome
*https://uniroma1.academia.edu/PaoloRosati/
<https://uniroma1.academia.edu/PaoloRosati/>*
paoloe.rosati at uniroma1.it
paoloe.rosati at gmail.com
Skype: paoloe.rosati
Mobile: (+39) 338 73 83 472


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From bihanisarkar at googlemail.com  Thu Feb  9 15:12:36 2017
From: bihanisarkar at googlemail.com (Bihani Sarkar)
Date: Thu, 09 Feb 17 15:12:36 +0000
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Devipurana (2)
In-Reply-To: <CAMOCTf9j=QAM9Oc3fQ5033-uHG233bCCAFEzwAJNuwaKbLQrNg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CABC99BShrAWY2L96ay_tk0Fc=t-UNzSCkOdSRsdjcCMZ6bL6Pg@mail.gmail.com>

Dear Mr. Rosati,

I have the Bengali edition of the *Dev?pur??a* you are referring to. The
verse 39.6 fully quoted runs thus (without removing the doubled consonants
used by the editor):

*sarvvak?masusiddhyartha? r?jati vedaparvvate |*
*yajed bhaum?tjamjo dev?? k?m?khye girikandare ||*

The reference to the sacred site of K?m?khy? in Assam is embedded in a
longer descriptive enumeration of various sacred sites of goddesses
contained within 39.2-39.21 ('*brahma?? pu?kare dev??.plav? hel?
prak?rtit??*') of the Bengali edition. I do not have the Devan?gar?
edition, hence I am unable to check if this rather interesting little
passage on what seem to be important ??kta* p??ha*s of the time is included
in it. If it is not, let me know and I can scan the passage from the
Bengali edition for you.

I would interpret Bhaum?tmaja as "a descendent of [king] Bhauma", in which
Bhauma, according to royal genealogical myths of K?mar?pa from the fourth
to the twelfth centuries CE, seems to refer to the alternative name of
Naraka, the mythical first king of Pr?gjyoti?a. The second half of the
verse means accordingly: "A [--by extension, 'any'--] descendent of Bhauma
[the first king of K?mar?pa] must worship the goddess in the mountain cave
K?m?khy?". For a description of the myth of the first king of K?mar?pa, the
genealogies of that kingdom and the K?mar?pa kings' loyal patronage of the
site of K?m?khya for the authorization of their political power, see
J.E.Shin, "Changing Dynasties, Enduring Genealogy: A Critical Study on the
Political Legitimation in early Mediaeval K?mar?pa". I attach the article
herewith.

I do hope this may be of some help.

With best wishes,
Bihani Sarkar BA, M.Phil, D.Phil (Oxon),
British Academy Postdoctoral Research Fellow in Sanskrit
Christ Church College
Oriental Institute,
Oxford University

On Tue, Feb 7, 2017 at 1:16 PM, Paolo Eugenio Rosati via INDOLOGY <
indology at list.indology.info> wrote:

> Dear list,
>
> I am looking for a couple of references from the *Devipurana*.
>
> I found---throughout secundary literature---some references that probably
> derived from this edition:
>
> *Dev?pur??a*, ed. with a Bengali translation by Pancanana Tarkaratna.
> Calcutta, 1928.
>
> while I have got (thanks to the list!) this edition:
> *Dev?pur??a*. Kumar, Sharma P. (ed.) 1976. *Dev? Pur??am*. New Delhi: Sri
> Lal Bahadur Shastri Kendriya Sanskrit Vidyapeeth.
>
> Actually I do not know if the two eds are based on different mss, but I
> was unable to find out verse (39.6) that should says:
>
> *yajed ... devIM kAmAkhye girikandare *(Van Kooij 1972, 32n3---based on
> Bengali trans.)
>
> although some scholars wrote that in this verse should also be a reference
> to the son of Bhumi (earth goddess) and cited the Kumar ed. (v.
> 39.6b)---but in Kumar ed. there is the verse that speak of Kamakhya neither
> it speak about a "Bhauma".
>
> The second part that I am looking for is a so-called* Appendix 1 list 7*
> (cit. in Dehejia 1986, Yogini Cult and Temples), although in her
> bibliography it is not cited any *DP *ms or edition. Thus, I imagine this
> appendix was somewhere through the Kumar ed. (or maybe not) or perhaps she
> confused with another text?!
> Dehejia wrote that in this list were enumerated 64 devi-pithas from which
> depend on the two *yogini *lists of the *Kalikapurana *(Chs. 54 and 63,
> in B. Shastri [1991] 2008).
>
> I wish someone could help in find out the verse and the appendix that I
> was unable to find out from Kumar ed. of *DP*.
>
> Best wishes,
> Paolo
>
> --
> Paolo E. Rosati
> Oriental Archaeologist
> PhD candidate in "Civilizations of Asia and Africa"
> South Asia Section
> Dep. Italian Institute of Oriental Studies/ISO
> 'Sapienza' University of Rome
> *https://uniroma1.academia.edu/PaoloRosati/
> <https://uniroma1.academia.edu/PaoloRosati/>*
> paoloe.rosati at uniroma1.it
> paoloe.rosati at gmail.com
> Skype: paoloe.rosati
> Mobile: (+39) 338 73 83 472
>
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
> committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
> unsubscribe)
>


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From msa2b at eservices.virginia.edu  Thu Feb  9 15:29:21 2017
From: msa2b at eservices.virginia.edu (Allen, Michael S. (msa2b))
Date: Thu, 09 Feb 17 15:29:21 +0000
Subject: [INDOLOGY] CFP: The Art of Commentary (AAR 2017)
Message-ID: <18B06A9C-30E5-4DE6-A05B-7254E05B83D0@eservices.virginia.edu>

Dear Colleagues,

The ?Indian and Chinese Religions Compared? group of the American Academy of Religion will be hosting a session at this year?s annual meeting in Boston, Nov. 18-21. The theme of the session will be ?The Art of Commentary,? and we welcome individual paper proposals (deadline March 1). For more information, please see below.

Best wishes,

Michael S. Allen
Assistant Professor
Department of Religious Studies
University of Virginia

----------------------------------------

Call for Papers:
We are seeking papers that explore and explain commentarial practices, i.e., the techniques and strategies used by commentators in the Indian and/or Chinese traditions. The focus can be a single commentary (or part thereof), or a genre, or even a comparative study of how different commentators in the same or different traditions handle material. Note that papers are not required to compare Indian and Chinese materials explicitly (though such papers are welcome); affinities, comparisons, and contrasts will emerge during discussion of the papers.

Venue:
American Academy of Religion, 2017 Annual Meeting, Boston, November 18-21.

Deadline:
Paper proposals are due by 5pm on Wednesday, March 1. Proposals should be submitted through AAR?s PAPERS system (https://papers.aarweb.org).

Questions?
Contact either of the co-chairs:
Dan Lusthaus <lusthaus at fas.harvard.edu<mailto:lusthaus at fas.harvard.edu>>
Michael S. Allen <msa2b at virginia.edu<mailto:msa2b at virginia.edu>>

About the Unit:
The ?Indian and Chinese Religions Compared? unit of the American Academy of Religion addresses two significant gaps in current scholarship on Chinese and Indian religious traditions. The first gap is in historical scholarship. India and China have been the two mother cultures of South Asia and East Asia. Historically, the two were connected through the transmission and transformation of Buddhism from India to China. This remarkably fruitful incorporation and assimilation of a foreign system of thought and cultural practice into another well-established civilization is one of the first of its kind in the human history of cross-cultural exchanges, especially at such a magnitude. Unfortunately, there has been inadequate scholarly attention paid to how Indian Buddhism ? and its central Asian variants ? introduced new issues and imaginations to the Chinese people and how the Chinese managed to appropriate the alien tradition into their own intellectual milieu, hence deeply enriching and reshaping the indigenous Chinese culture. Second, we also seek to redirect some of the attention of the comparative study of religion and philosophy away from the default Western-centered approach. India and China are profoundly important civilizations, both historically and contemporarily. Despite the historical connection of Buddhism, the differences in their cultural products ? whether religious, linguistic, philosophical, artistic, or material ? are so striking that comparing them would highlight the true richness, plurality, and diversity of human creativity and cultural productivity.






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From jneuss at makroskop.de  Thu Feb  9 15:53:09 2017
From: jneuss at makroskop.de (=?utf-8?Q?J=C3=BCrgen_Neu=C3=9F?=)
Date: Thu, 09 Feb 17 16:53:09 +0100
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Devipurana ed.
In-Reply-To: <CABC99BShrAWY2L96ay_tk0Fc=t-UNzSCkOdSRsdjcCMZ6bL6Pg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <op.yveg2vos6bapky@tapti.fritz.box>

Dear friends and colleagues,

is there any edition of the Devipurana available online? Or is perhaps  
someone in the possesion of a .pdf? My internet search yielded no results,  
unfortunately.

Thanks in advance,

J?rgen Neuss
-- 
***
Dr. J?rgen Neu?
Zwinglistr. 40
10555 Berlin
***


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From dchakra at hotmail.de  Thu Feb  9 16:03:46 2017
From: dchakra at hotmail.de (Dr. Debabrata Chakrabarti)
Date: Thu, 09 Feb 17 16:03:46 +0000
Subject: [INDOLOGY] session
Message-ID: <HK2PR03MB053146D33FA0B69EA39CEC26D9450@HK2PR03MB0531.apcprd03.prod.outlook.com>

The ?Indian and Chinese Religions Compared? group of the American Academy of Religion will be hosting a session at this year?s annual meeting in Boston, Nov. 18-21.




From aprigliano at usp.br  Thu Feb  9 17:28:01 2017
From: aprigliano at usp.br (Adriano Aprigliano)
Date: Thu, 09 Feb 17 15:28:01 -0200
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Scan of Gunaratna`s commentary
Message-ID: <CAHfOVEBntSdtXj=tcU40NB=jc_xOnv5HPfW+TT1attkjoeR+1w@mail.gmail.com>

Dear colleagues,

I`m looking for the text of Gunaratna`s commentary on the
Saddarsanasamuccaya, In fact I found a scan of it on archive.org, --
Bibliotheca Indica --, very poorly made though, barely readable. Does any
one has a better version that could share?

best wishes

*Prof. Dr. Adriano Aprigliano*
L?ngua e Literatura Latina - DLCV - FFLCH
Gabinete 30, tel.: 3091 2065
Universidade de S?o Paulo
Av. Prof. Luciano Gualberto, 403 CEP: 05508-900
Cidade Universit?ria S?o Paulo - SP / Brasil


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From aprigliano at usp.br  Thu Feb  9 20:21:02 2017
From: aprigliano at usp.br (Adriano Aprigliano)
Date: Thu, 09 Feb 17 18:21:02 -0200
Subject: [INDOLOGY] SDS better scans found
Message-ID: <CAHfOVEBvBpDtniAFVtiLwJhNHiKc-1yngaGwL=cf32d-Mzv_4A@mail.gmail.com>

Dear colleagues,

Patiently revisiting the same archive.org, I found these two much better
scans (two different editions) of the Sad-dardasna-samuccaya with
Gunaratna's commentary. I paste the links here in case there are others
interested.


https://ia800409.us.archive.org/8/items/ShadDarshanSamucchayaAcharyaHaribhadraSuri/Shad%20Darshan%20Samucchaya%20-%20Acharya%20Haribhadra%20Suri.pdf


https://ia801500.us.archive.org/12/items/in.ernet.dli.2015.486033/2015.486033.Shaddarsana-Samuchchaya.pdf

b.w.
*Prof. Dr. Adriano Aprigliano*
L?ngua e Literatura Latina - DLCV - FFLCH
Gabinete 30, tel.: 3091 2065
Universidade de S?o Paulo
Av. Prof. Luciano Gualberto, 403 CEP: 05508-900
Cidade Universit?ria S?o Paulo - SP / Brasil


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From mkapstei at uchicago.edu  Thu Feb  9 20:34:12 2017
From: mkapstei at uchicago.edu (Matthew Kapstein)
Date: Thu, 09 Feb 17 20:34:12 +0000
Subject: [INDOLOGY] SDS better scans found
In-Reply-To: <CAHfOVEBvBpDtniAFVtiLwJhNHiKc-1yngaGwL=cf32d-Mzv_4A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <82C3E42590D939418C74DD76B97DDED047C107E4@xm-mbx-06-prod>

Dear Adriano,

My recommendation is that you use primarily the MahendrakumAr edition. He was a brilliant
editor of Jain philosophical texts, whose contributions I find to be exemplary.

best regards,
Matthew

Matthew Kapstein
Directeur d'?tudes,
Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes

Numata Visiting Professor of Buddhist Studies,
The University of Chicago
________________________________



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From gabriel.filosofia at hotmail.com  Thu Feb  9 21:05:01 2017
From: gabriel.filosofia at hotmail.com (Gabriel Martino)
Date: Thu, 09 Feb 17 21:05:01 +0000
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Invitation to participate in monographic issue on India Studies
In-Reply-To: <mailman.80.1486653221.1961.indology_list.indology.info@list.indology.info>
Message-ID: <BY2PR0101MB0760C5F364F4826F937DF1C5E9450@BY2PR0101MB0760.prod.exchangelabs.com>

Hello,

my name is Gabriel Martino, I am from Buenos Aires, Argentina. I am currently editing a monographic issue on India Studies in the Journal de Ciencias Sociales of the University of Palermo, Buenos Aires. This is the second monographic issue I edit on the topic, I attach the link to the first one, edited last year, just in case you would like to look at the different contributions included.

The present issue in preparation has a broad spectrum theme about Identity and Sociocultural Reconfiguration in India, both Ancient and Modern. I would like to invite Indian Scholars, specially, to participate in the number, in order to strengthen bilateral interchange between Latin American and Indian scholarship. Contributions from scholars from other countries are of course welcome as well. If someone is interested in presenting a paper in the issue, please contact me to my mail:  gabriel.filosofia at hotmail.com


The link to the Journal where the issue will be published is the following:

https://dspace.palermo.edu/ojs/index.php/jcs


Journal de Ciencias Sociales - dspace.palermo.edu<https://dspace.palermo.edu/ojs/index.php/jcs>
dspace.palermo.edu
INFORMACI?N IMPORTANTE PARA AUTORES: A la hora de realizar un env?o, les pedimos por favor que sigan los siguientes pasos para realizar una "Evaluaci?n An?nima":



The link to the previous issue already printed is this:

http://revistas.usb.edu.co/index.php/GuillermoOckham/issue/view/215/showToc

Vol. 14, N?m. 1 (2016) - revistas.usb.edu.co<http://revistas.usb.edu.co/index.php/GuillermoOckham/issue/view/215/showToc>
revistas.usb.edu.co
La Revista Cient?fica Guillermo de Ockham es la revista institucional de la Universidad de San Buenaventura, Cali-Colombia. Esta revista, fundada en el a?o 2003 ...


Thank you very much,

Gabriel



________________________________
De: INDOLOGY <indology-bounces at list.indology.info> en nombre de indology-request at list.indology.info <indology-request at list.indology.info>
Enviado: jueves, 09 de febrero de 2017 05:43 a.m.
Para: indology at list.indology.info
Asunto: INDOLOGY Digest, Vol 49, Issue 9

Send INDOLOGY mailing list submissions to
        indology at list.indology.info

To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
        http://list.indology.info/mailman/listinfo/indology_list.indology.info
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INDOLOGY is an internet discussion group whose primary purpose is to provide a forum for discussion among professional scholars of classical Indian (South Asian ...




or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
        indology-request at list.indology.info

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        indology-owner at list.indology.info

When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
than "Re: Contents of INDOLOGY digest..."


Today's Topics:

   1. job advertisement at the University of Vienna (Karin.Preisendanz)
   2. Re: INDUS CIVILISATION. (Andrea Acri)
   3. Re: Devipurana (2) (Christophe Vielle)
   4. Re: Devipurana (2) (Paolo Eugenio Rosati)
   5. Re: Devipurana (2) (Bihani Sarkar)


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Thu, 09 Feb 2017 01:35:03 +0100
From: "Karin.Preisendanz" <karin.preisendanz at univie.ac.at>
To: Indology <indology at list.indology.info>
Subject: [INDOLOGY] job advertisement at the University of Vienna
Message-ID: <67fc8faf6101e21fcdbc64fa2862d1f8 at univie.ac.at>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"; Format="flowed"

Dear colleagues,

The University of Vienna is announcing the position of a University
Assistant (pre-doctoral) in the area of the study of pre-modern South
Asia at its Department of South Asian, Tibetan and Buddhist Studies. For
further details, see the attachment in German and English.

I would be very grateful to you if you would post the advertisement at
your Department and pass it on to the circle of interested persons.

With many thanks and best regards,

Karin Preisendanz

--
Karin Preisendanz
Institut f?r S?dasien-, Tibet- und Buddhismuskunde
Universit?t Wien
Spitalgasse 2-4, Hof 2, Eingang 2.1
A-1090 Wien
?sterreich


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From e.demichelis at ymail.com  Fri Feb 10 00:20:12 2017
From: e.demichelis at ymail.com (Elizabeth De Michelis)
Date: Fri, 10 Feb 17 00:20:12 +0000
Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_[INDOLOGY]_Fwd:_ENJEUX_DE_LA_PHILOLOGIE_INDIENNE_:_traditions,_=C3=A9ditions,_traductions/transferts_ISSUES_IN_INDIAN_PHILOLOGY:_Traditions,_Editions,_Translations/Transfers_Paris,_Coll=C3=A8ge_de_France,_5-7_d=C3=A9cembre_2016?=
In-Reply-To: <CAGCGLoAkxFp4S1wMgkTMAEz4a4eqs1Du4aFLw9sNX_ip=SvWBw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1005156179.2776903.1486686012194@mail.yahoo.com>

Dear Subscribers,
following on from this fascinating conference, which unfortunately I could not attend, I was delighted to find out that the presentations have been recorded and made available for streaming or download here:
http://www.college-de-france.fr/site/jean-noel-robert/p466440875667752_content.htm
I thought others may be interested.
Greetings to all,
Elizabeth De Michelistinyurl.com/EDM-profile

 

    On Wednesday, 30 November 2016, 20:52, Jan E.M. Houben <jemhouben at gmail.com> wrote:
 

 In response to several questions, for more information on this conference?
organised by?Lyne Bansat-Boudon, Silvia D?Intino, and Jean-No?l Robertsee:?
www.hesam.eu/labexhastec/?p=4764
https://www.college-de-france.fr/site/jean-noel-robert/p466440875667752_content.htm


---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Jan E.M. Houben <jemhouben at gmail.com>
Date: 2016-11-30 10:33 GMT+01:00
Subject: ENJEUX DE LA PHILOLOGIE INDIENNE : traditions, ?ditions, traductions/transferts ISSUES IN INDIAN PHILOLOGY: Traditions, Editions, Translations/Transfers Paris, Coll?ge de France, 5-7 d?cembre 2016
To: "indology at list.indology.info" <indology at list.indology.info>


ENJEUX DE LA PHILOLOGIE INDIENNE :traditions, ?ditions, traductions/transfertsISSUES IN INDIAN PHILOLOGY:Traditions, Editions, Translations/TransfersParis, Coll?ge de France, 5-7 d?cembre 2016Conf?rence inaugurale : lundi 5 d?cembre ? 17h00, salle 2Organisation : ?Lyne Bansat-Boudon (EPHE, Mondes iranien et indien), ?Silvia D?Intino (CNRS, ANHIMA),?Jean-No?l Robert (Coll?ge de France, CRCAO)
LUNDI 5 d?cembre 2016
17h00 Ouverture du colloque?Conf?rence inauguraleSheldon Pollock (Columbia University)?? "Indian Philology": Edition, Interpretation, ?and Difference ?
MARDI 6 d?cembre 2016Matin?e : ?tudes v?diques et p??in?ennes?Pr?sident de s?ance : Jean-No?l Robert (Coll?ge de France)
9h15 Charles Malamoud (EPHE) ?? Le cercle des saisons (?tuma??ala). Note sur lepremier prap??haka du Taittir?ya ?ra?yaka ?9h45 Silvia D?Intino (CNRS)? Lire le ?gveda avant S?ya?a ?10h15 Cezary Galewicz (Jagiellonian University, Cracovie)? The R?japur Manuscript of Bhattoji?s Vedabh??yas?ra ?Discutant : Christian Jacob (EHESS)
Pause
11h15 : Edwin Gerow (Reed College, Portland)? Les acceptions de karman et la tradition grammaticalesanskrite ?11h45 : Madhav Deshpande (University of Michigan)? Re-Viewing the Tradition: Language, Grammar?and History ?12h15 : Maria-Piera Candotti (Universit? de Lausanne)? Le r?le des commentaires dans la transmission et laconstruction d?un texte et leur repr?sentation dans lesavoir contemporain. Exemples et r?flexions ? partir descommentaires de l??cole vy?karana ?Discutant : Jan Houben (EPHE)
Apr?s-midi : ?pop?es, traditions savantesPr?sident de s?ance : David Shulman (Hebrew University,J?rusalem)14h00 : John Brockington (Oxford University)? Religion and Recensions, Scripts and Manuscripts:The Textual History of the R?m?ya?a and Mah?bh?rata ?14h30 : Claudine Le Blanc (Paris 3)?? Philologie de l??pop?e orale ?15h00 : Naveen Kanalu (UCLA)?? Philological Conditions for Pampa?s Vikram?rjunavijayam,the Kannada Earlier Extant Ka?vya, and theProblem of a Literary History for Old Kannada ?Discutant : Pierre Judet de La Combe (EHESS)
16h00 : Carl Ernst (University of North Carolina)?? Disentangling the Different Persian Translations ofThe Pool of Nectar (Am?taku??a) ?16h30 : Fabrizio Speziale (Paris 3)?? ?il? or do?a? Translation and Interpretation ofAyurvedic Theory of Trido?a in Early-Modern PersianTexts ?Discutant : Francis Zimmermann (EHESS)
MERCREDI 7 d?cembre 2016Matin?e : Philologie/philosophiePr?sident de s?ance : Philippe Hoffmann (EPHE)9h15 : Lyne Bansat-Boudon (EPHE)? Enjeux sp?culatifs de la philologie en contexte indien.Ex?g?se et fabrique du texte dans les Spandak?rik? et leNir?aya ?9h45 : Eli Franco (Leipzig University)?? Yam?ri and the Order of Chapters in the Pram??av?rttika?10h15 : Vincent Eltschinger (EPHE)?? Entre autorit? textuelle et autorit? religieuse :?le Bouddha au prisme de l?ex?g?se bouddhique ?Discutant : Matthew Kapstein (EPHE)Pause11h15 : Judit T?rzs?k (Lille 3)? Abhinavagupta on the Epic: Some Remarks on theG?t?rthasa?graha and its m?la ?11h45 : Isabelle Rati? (Paris 3)?? Pour une philologie indienne des marges : le cas des?manuscrits cachemiriens ?Discutant : J?rgen Hanneder (Marburg University)
Apr?s-midi : Mod?les culturels : ?crire, traduire, transposerPr?sidente de s?ance : Lyne Bansat-Boudon (EPHE)14h00 : ?Jean-No?l Robert (Coll?ge de France)?? Deux traducteurs sur la Route de la Soie. Traductionet r??criture du sanskrit en chinois ?14h30 : ?Matthew Kapstein (EPHE)? Other People?s Philology: Tibetan Engagements withSanskrit during the 15th ? 18th Centuries ?15h00 : J?rgen Hanneder (Marburg University)?th? The Indian Inculturation of European TextualCriticism ??Discutant : Eli Franco (Leipzig University)Pause16h00 : David Shulman (Hebrew University, J?rusalem)? A South Indian Canon: Visible, Audible, Elastic ?16h30 : Benedetta Zaccarello (CNRS)? ?crire l?impensable : sur les carnets abstraits deAurobindo Ghose et Paul Val?ry ?Discutant : Claudio Galderisi (Universit? de Poitiers)17h30 : Table ronde
Comit? scientifiqueLyne Bansat-Boudon (EPHE), Silvia D?Intino (CNRS)Philippe Hoffmann (EPHE), Charles Malamoud (EPHE)Jean-No?l Robert (Coll?ge de France)OrganisationLyne Bansat-Boudon, Silvia D?Intino, Jean-No?l Robert


? ? ??
Jan E.M. HOUBENDirecteurd??tudesSources et histoire de la tradition sanskrite?cole Pratique des Hautes ?tudesSciences historiques et philologiques?54, rue Saint-JacquesCS 20525 ? 75005 Parisjohannes.houben at ephe.sorbonne. frhttps://ephe-sorbonne. academia.edu/JanEMHoubenwww.ephe.fr


_______________________________________________
INDOLOGY mailing list
INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
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From emstern at verizon.net  Fri Feb 10 07:12:31 2017
From: emstern at verizon.net (Elliot Stern)
Date: Fri, 10 Feb 17 02:12:31 -0500
Subject: [INDOLOGY] SDS better scans found
In-Reply-To: <82C3E42590D939418C74DD76B97DDED047C107E4@xm-mbx-06-prod>
Message-ID: <18CD6236-2386-4318-A821-072D233BF2C3@verizon.net>

Dear Adriano,

I concur with Matthew?s recommendation. Mahendra Kum?r Jain?s editions are meticulously edited and his doxographic annotations are invaluable.  Luigi Suali?s edition is far less reliable. I am elated to see that  his edition of this commentary now readily available. I searched in vain for it  a few years ago.

Best regards,

Elliot

Elliot M. Stern
552 South 48th Street
Philadelphia, PA 19143-2029
United States of America
telephone: 215-747-6204
mobile: 267-240-8418
emstern at verizon.net

> On 09 Feb  2017, at 15:34, Matthew Kapstein via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info> wrote:
> 
> Dear Adriano,
> 
> My recommendation is that you use primarily the MahendrakumAr edition. He was a brilliant
> editor of Jain philosophical texts, whose contributions I find to be exemplary.
> 
> best regards,
> Matthew 
> 
> Matthew Kapstein
> Directeur d'?tudes, 
> Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes
> 
> Numata Visiting Professor of Buddhist Studies,
> The University of Chicago
> 
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info <mailto:INDOLOGY at list.indology.info>
> indology-owner at list.indology.info <mailto:indology-owner at list.indology.info> (messages to the list's managing committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info <http://listinfo.indology.info/> (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe)



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From mrinalkaul81 at gmail.com  Fri Feb 10 09:26:29 2017
From: mrinalkaul81 at gmail.com (Mrinal Kaul)
Date: Fri, 10 Feb 17 14:56:29 +0530
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Centre for Religious Studies, Manipal University: Lecture by Dr Daniele Cuneo
Message-ID: <CAJz4T_6w0o1NxCQbHpnZqFka=WctU_N8idHB0+1PhtXqgSa68g@mail.gmail.com>

Please find lecture invite herewith:

[image: Inline images 2]


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From bill.m.mak at gmail.com  Fri Feb 10 12:39:02 2017
From: bill.m.mak at gmail.com (Bill Mak)
Date: Fri, 10 Feb 17 07:39:02 -0500
Subject: [INDOLOGY] ACSAM and 42500 South Asian manuscripts in North America
In-Reply-To: <CAJz4T_6w0o1NxCQbHpnZqFka=WctU_N8idHB0+1PhtXqgSa68g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <96F57578-47D8-4FCA-ABD1-08ACBC770B5F@gmail.com>

Dear colleagues,

I was going through the late David Pingree?s archive at the American Philosophical Society and came across the documentation of his ambitious manuscript cataloguing project for the American Committee for South Asian Manuscript (ACSAM) as part his unsuccessful application of the NEH grant in the 1990s. Pingree envisioned the project to take 20 years to complete and gave an overview of the 42500 manuscripts in North America (22,500 in Arabic, 12,000 in Persian and more than 8,000 in Sanskrit and others Indian languages).

I am aware of Peter Scharf?s NEH cataloguing project of the 1700 Sanskrit mss at Havard (2009-2013) and his work in "From Mulberry Leaves to Silk Scrolls? (2015). But there also seems to be an ACSAM webpage on the Brown server which no longer exists. Before I reach out to specific colleagues, I thought I should tap into the collective wisdom of the list and wonder if anyone on the list could share with me more information on the background and future of the ACSAM and these manuscripts in various institutions in North America.

Best wishes

Bill Mak

-- 
Bill M. Mak, PhD

Visiting research scholar
Institute for the Study of the Ancient World (ISAW)
New York University
15 East 84th Street
New York, NY 10028
US

Associate Professor
Institute for Research in Humanities, Kyoto University
Yoshidahonmachi, Sakyo-ku, Kyoto, Japan 606-8501
?606-8501 ??????????
???????????

email: mak at zinbun.kyoto-u.ac.jp
Tel:+81-75-753-6961
Fax:+81-75-753-6903

copies of my publications may be found at:
http://www.billmak.com



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From wujastyk at gmail.com  Fri Feb 10 15:43:15 2017
From: wujastyk at gmail.com (Dominik Wujastyk)
Date: Fri, 10 Feb 17 08:43:15 -0700
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Fwd: [SILFontNews] Annapurna version 1.202 release
In-Reply-To: <24dc6481-66f5-47d9-b313-1c3b6162cc90@groups.sil.org>
Message-ID: <CAKdt-Cdp9YES9RwpHTD6eAijymZDdEY=GY1qmct+aaSKDrSz-g@mail.gmail.com>

FYI

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: jon_coblentz <jon_coblentz at sil.org>
Date: 10 February 2017 at 06:10
Subject: [SILFontNews] Annapurna version 1.202 release
To: SIL Font News <sil-font-news at groups.sil.org>



AnnapurnaSIL (a Devanagari script font) version 1.202 is a maintenance
release fixing two issues. One was in Graphite where reph was skipping the
aakar after the ya. The second was an issue on Windows computers where the
candrabindu disappeared at certain point sizes in the Bold font. Testing
pointed to a hinting issue. We used TTFautohint instead of FontLab hinting
and testing has shown that it fixed the issue. A bonus from the new process
is it reduces the file size.

Additionally, since no news release was made for Annapurna version 1.201, a
maintenance version was released in August 2016 which fixes two issues. One
was a Graphite reordering issue when reph and ikar are in a cluster. The
second was a Graphite issue affecting typeTuner fonts.

The home page is http://software.sil.org/annapurna/.

-- 
Thank you for your interest in SIL fonts. This is not a discussion list, it
is purely a place for SIL to give news and announcements related to all SIL
font releases. If you need assistance with SIL fonts, please go to
http://scripts.sil.org/support
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
"SIL Font News" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
email to sil-font-news+unsubscribe at groups.sil.org.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/a/
groups.sil.org/group/sil-font-news/.


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From mmdesh at umich.edu  Fri Feb 10 15:59:30 2017
From: mmdesh at umich.edu (Madhav Deshpande)
Date: Fri, 10 Feb 17 10:59:30 -0500
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Fwd: [SILFontNews] Annapurna version 1.202 release
In-Reply-To: <CAKdt-Cdp9YES9RwpHTD6eAijymZDdEY=GY1qmct+aaSKDrSz-g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAB3-dze-iJv2da0JaGDj7EW9_koWB=B7tScsPDrArbHWS_UnSQ@mail.gmail.com>

Thanks, Dominik, for sharing this beautiful Devanagari Unicode font.  I
just installed it on my Macbook, and it is working just fine.

Madhav

On Fri, Feb 10, 2017 at 10:43 AM, Dominik Wujastyk via INDOLOGY <
indology at list.indology.info> wrote:

> FYI
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: jon_coblentz <jon_coblentz at sil.org>
> Date: 10 February 2017 at 06:10
> Subject: [SILFontNews] Annapurna version 1.202 release
> To: SIL Font News <sil-font-news at groups.sil.org>
>
>
>
> AnnapurnaSIL (a Devanagari script font) version 1.202 is a maintenance
> release fixing two issues. One was in Graphite where reph was skipping the
> aakar after the ya. The second was an issue on Windows computers where the
> candrabindu disappeared at certain point sizes in the Bold font. Testing
> pointed to a hinting issue. We used TTFautohint instead of FontLab hinting
> and testing has shown that it fixed the issue. A bonus from the new process
> is it reduces the file size.
>
> Additionally, since no news release was made for Annapurna version 1.201,
> a maintenance version was released in August 2016 which fixes two issues.
> One was a Graphite reordering issue when reph and ikar are in a cluster.
> The second was a Graphite issue affecting typeTuner fonts.
>
> The home page is http://software.sil.org/annapurna/.
>
> --
> Thank you for your interest in SIL fonts. This is not a discussion list,
> it is purely a place for SIL to give news and announcements related to all
> SIL font releases. If you need assistance with SIL fonts, please go to
> http://scripts.sil.org/support
> ---
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "SIL Font News" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
> email to sil-font-news+unsubscribe at groups.sil.org.
> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/a/gr
> oups.sil.org/group/sil-font-news/.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
> committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
> unsubscribe)
>


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From hr at ivs.edu  Fri Feb 10 23:27:58 2017
From: hr at ivs.edu (HdGoswami)
Date: Fri, 10 Feb 17 15:27:58 -0800
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Swat
Message-ID: <1486768982-9134059.84193455.fv1ANMZIR012987@rs153.luxsci.com>

Interesting report in French on the current situation in the Swat Valley.

http://www.france24.com/fr/20170210-video-billet-retour-pakistan-vallee-swat-taliban-droit-femmes-tourisme-malala-yousafzai <http://www.france24.com/fr/20170210-video-billet-retour-pakistan-vallee-swat-taliban-droit-femmes-tourisme-malala-yousafzai>




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From arlogriffiths at hotmail.com  Sat Feb 11 09:31:11 2017
From: arlogriffiths at hotmail.com (Arlo Griffiths)
Date: Sat, 11 Feb 17 09:31:11 +0000
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Benveniste & Renou 1934
Message-ID: <HE1PR0801MB1772D15726C769F7B74A79E8A5470@HE1PR0801MB1772.eurprd08.prod.outlook.com>

Dear colleagues,


Does any one happen to have, or know how to find, a pdf of the following?


Benveniste, ?mile, and Louis Renou. 1934. V?tra et V??ragna: ?tude de mythologie indo-iranienne. Cahiers de la Soci?t? asiatique 3. Paris: Imprimerie nationale.


Thank you.


Arlo Griffiths




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From mrinalkaul81 at gmail.com  Sun Feb 12 10:54:48 2017
From: mrinalkaul81 at gmail.com (Mrinal Kaul)
Date: Sun, 12 Feb 17 16:24:48 +0530
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Centre for Religious Studies, Manipal University: Performance Lecture by Dr Padmaja Suresh
Message-ID: <CAJz4T_7O0wMnST9_8GHD5mQUerJPEEAzOBsTpgYZuEinqJ4W8A@mail.gmail.com>

[image: Inline images 1]


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From mrinalkaul81 at gmail.com  Sun Feb 12 10:55:19 2017
From: mrinalkaul81 at gmail.com (Mrinal Kaul)
Date: Sun, 12 Feb 17 16:25:19 +0530
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Centre for Religious Studies, Manipal University: Lecture by Dr Andrew Ollett
Message-ID: <CAJz4T_6xrYLdqSQfEDYWVeWbjHQ55dT-SnuE5okuQveHOS36_w@mail.gmail.com>

Please find lecture invite herewith:

[image: Inline images 1]


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From rolfheiner.koch at gmail.com  Sun Feb 12 13:41:50 2017
From: rolfheiner.koch at gmail.com (Rolf Heinrich Koch)
Date: Sun, 12 Feb 17 19:11:50 +0530
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Buddhist murals Sri Lanka Vessantara-Jataka
Message-ID: <4b7295b9-8e9d-690b-bd07-359a59b10a83@gmail.com>

Dear listmembers,
there is one episode in the Vessantara-J?taka which describes the 
following plot:

...After Vessantara gave away the two horses of his coach, Sakka advised 
four junior gods
to pull Vessantara's coach. They appeared in the guise of a red deer....

Some murals which depict this plot show four horses instead of the red deer.
As the only textual source I found one edition of the Butsarana with 
a?vave?a (for m?gave?a).
All Pali and further Sinhala sources read m?gave?a.

I suppose there is a northern tradition which records a?vave?a (Gilgit, 
Tibetan or Chinese).

Anyone came across this version and is willing to share this with me?

Thank you in advance

Heiner

Rolf Heinrich Koch
https://rolfheinrichkoch.wordpress.com/






From yao.mjug.ma.brgyad at gmail.com  Sun Feb 12 15:35:40 2017
From: yao.mjug.ma.brgyad at gmail.com (Fumi Yao)
Date: Sun, 12 Feb 17 10:35:40 -0500
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Buddhist murals Sri Lanka Vessantara-Jataka
In-Reply-To: <4b7295b9-8e9d-690b-bd07-359a59b10a83@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAD8kJ9yR0akruOp0suZq3ZQH9rCkDLp_-xRQS5KpYXGFMj3wng@mail.gmail.com>

Dear Heiner,

I think none of the three stories of Vi?vantara in the M?lasarv?stiv?da
Vinaya ("the Vi?vantara-J?taka I--III" in Panglung 1981 "Preliminary
remarks on the udd?nas in the vinaya of the M?lasarv?stiv?din," p.229) and
the Vi?vantar?vad?na in the Gilgit manuscripts ("the Vi?vantara-J?taka IV,"
ibid.) gives a?vave?a. They do not mention ?akra's help in this part of the
story, either.

Vi? I (Tibetan, Chinese, and newly identified Skt fragments): Vi?vantara
gives both the coach and horses to a Brahmin and goes to the forest on foot.

Vi? II (Tibetan and Skt fragments): After he gave the coach to some
Brahmins, Vi?vantara rides his horse. Later, he gives the horse to another
group of Brahmins and proceeds on foot.

Vi? III (Tibetan, Chinese, and Gilgit manuscript): same as Vi? I.

Vi? IV (Gilgit manuscript): same as Vi? I.

I hope this helps you.

Kindest regards,
Fumi

Fumi Yao

McMaster University
University Hall Room 104
1280 Main Street West
Hamilton, Ontario L8S 4L8
Canada

2017-02-12 8:41 GMT-05:00 Rolf Heinrich Koch via INDOLOGY <
indology at list.indology.info>:

> Dear listmembers,
> there is one episode in the Vessantara-J?taka which describes the
> following plot:
>
> ...After Vessantara gave away the two horses of his coach, Sakka advised
> four junior gods
> to pull Vessantara's coach. They appeared in the guise of a red deer....
>
> Some murals which depict this plot show four horses instead of the red
> deer.
> As the only textual source I found one edition of the Butsarana with
> a?vave?a (for m?gave?a).
> All Pali and further Sinhala sources read m?gave?a.
>
> I suppose there is a northern tradition which records a?vave?a (Gilgit,
> Tibetan or Chinese).
>
> Anyone came across this version and is willing to share this with me?
>
> Thank you in advance
>
> Heiner
>
> Rolf Heinrich Koch
> https://rolfheinrichkoch.wordpress.com/
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
> committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
> unsubscribe)


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From danbalogh at gmail.com  Sun Feb 12 20:09:58 2017
From: danbalogh at gmail.com (=?utf-8?Q?D=C3=A1niel_Balogh?=)
Date: Sun, 12 Feb 17 21:09:58 +0100
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Contacting J D Tripathi
In-Reply-To: <CAD8kJ9yR0akruOp0suZq3ZQH9rCkDLp_-xRQS5KpYXGFMj3wng@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <b289f113-9df9-551f-6d96-14d38834e6f9@gmail.com>

Dear List,

could anyone help me contact Dr. Jitendra Datt Tripathi, who has worked 
on the petroglyphs of Bihar Kotra and Narsinghgarh (MP)? I'm afraid I do 
not know where if anywhere he is affiliated; he may be a resident of 
Narsinghgarh. Any information would be appreciated, email address, if 
any, preferred of course.

Also, if anyone knows of any information pertaining to the Bihar 
Kotra/Narsinghgarh cave inscription of Apar?jitavardhana (other than the 
report in Indian Archaeology, A Review 1982-83, K V Ramesh's paper in 
"Indus Valley to Mekong Delta" and J D Tripathi's article in Purakala 
1997), I would be grateful if you could share.

Thank you,
Daniel





From clemency.montelle at canterbury.ac.nz  Sun Feb 12 21:06:37 2017
From: clemency.montelle at canterbury.ac.nz (Clemency Montelle)
Date: Sun, 12 Feb 17 21:06:37 +0000
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Call for papers: History of Science in India Symposium, Canterbury University, Christchurch, New Zealand, April 19-20 2017
Message-ID: <373FE003EA3D2949BCC16219C67CBBF77FC39B53@UCEXMBX04-I.canterbury.ac.nz>

Dear Colleagues,

I'm delighted to announce the upcoming international symposium "History of Science in India" which will take place April 19-20th 2017, University of Canterbury, Christchurch, New Zealand (see attached poster and url below).

http://www.canterbury.ac.nz/events/active/uc-events/history-of-science-in-india-international-symposium.html

The streams in this two-day event will include (but are not limited to) history of mathematics, astronomy, medicine, and technology with three keynote speakers from India: Prof Ramasubramanian (IIT Bombay; history of mathematics), Prof Sriram (IIT Madras; history of astronomy), and Prof Rama Jayasundar (Cambridge educated medical surgeon at All India Institute of Medical Sciences, New Delhi; history of Ayurvedic medicine).

Registration is free but essential.  To register, or to send a title and abstract for consideration, please email me

clemency.montelle at canterbury.ac.nz

by Friday March 17th.

Following the symposium, a 5-day workshop is planned which will mix emerging and experienced researchers to reflect  on methodology in the History of Science in Sanskrit Sources, including manuscriptology, paleography, critical editing, translation issues,  technical commentary writing, and digital humanities resources.  Please email me to register your interest for this.

This symposium is supported by a generous grant from the New Zealand India Research Institute.

With best wishes,
Clemency
----
Dr. Clemency Montelle
Associate Professor
School of Mathematics and Statistics
University of Canterbury | Te Whare Wananga o Waitaha
Private Bag 4800, Christchurch 8140
NEW ZEALAND
http://www.math.canterbury.ac.nz/~c.montelle/


[cid:ec50263c-5f54-427d-b558-e67d9b306053]


This email may be confidential and subject to legal privilege, it may
not reflect the views of the University of Canterbury, and it is not
guaranteed to be virus free. If you are not an intended recipient,
please notify the sender immediately and erase all copies of the message
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From skarashima at gmail.com  Mon Feb 13 01:11:06 2017
From: skarashima at gmail.com (Seishi Karashima)
Date: Mon, 13 Feb 17 10:11:06 +0900
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Buddhist murals Sri Lanka Vessantara-Jataka
In-Reply-To: <CAD8kJ9yR0akruOp0suZq3ZQH9rCkDLp_-xRQS5KpYXGFMj3wng@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAEd5L8giK0=Oe1qxwQJuN_of8VOhSQcwYxoKpYDwjr0yQtE0vA@mail.gmail.com>

Dear colleagues,

I published nearly thirty years ago an annotated Japanese translation of
the P?li *Vessantara-j?taka*, when I was studying under Prof. K. R. Norman
in Cambridge.

* Vessantara-j?taka Yakuch? *(???????????????) [An Annotated Japanese
Translation of the P?li *Vessantara-j?taka*], in: *The J?takas* (???????),
vol. 10, ed. by Hajime Nakamura, Tokyo: Shunj?sha, 1988, pp. 149?257,
263?317, ISBN4-393-11620-8.

As it is written in Japanese, I assume that no Western scholars of our
field has read it. When I wrote this, I checked all the then available Pali
manuscripts, and compared the Pali version with the Sanskrit, Tibetan and
Chinese versions and added 675 philological notes. According to my notes,
none of the versions except for the Pali J?taka has the part in question.

The discrepancy between four red deer and four horses results not from the
difference of the Southern and Northern traditions but from the
interpretation of the Pali verse, no. 215 in the *Vessantara-j?taka* itself.

The latter half of the verse in question reads as follows: *migarohiccava??ena
*(*v.l. mig? ro-*; CpA* mig? rohitava??ena*) *dakkhi?(?)ass? vahanti ma?*
?The excellent (lit. able) horses, looking like red deer, carrying me on.?
(Cf. M. Cone, *The Perfect Generosity of Prince Vessantara*, Clarendon
Press 1977, p. 33).

The composer of the prose part (ca. 5c. C.E.) misunderstood this verse and
wrote as follows: *catt?ro devaputt? rohiccamigava??ena ?gantv? rathadhura?
sampa?icchitv? agama?su* ?Four gods in the guise of red deer came, took the
yoke of the carriage and went forward.? (cf. Cone, loc. cit.; she
misunderstood the meaning of *sampa?icchitv?*). Thus, *dakkhi?(?)ass?* in
the verse was neglected in the prose part. This misinterpretation might
have based on the variant readings *mig? rohi- *in some manuscripts and CpA.

Murals, which show four horses, and the Butsarana must base on the old
verse, while those, which depict the red deer instead, base on the prose.

Such discrepancipies between prose and verses are found also in the
*Mah?vastu* and *Saddharmapu??ar?ka*, on which I am now working.

What I wrote above is not my finding. Alsdorf wrote about this discrepancy
in the *Vessantara-j?taka* 60 years ago!: ?Bemerkungen zum
Vessantara-J?taka?, in: Wiener Zeitschrift f?r die Kunde S?d- und
Ost-Asiens I (1957): 37-38 = *Kleine Schriften*, hrsg. von Albrecht Wezler,
Wiesbaden 1974 (GlSt 10), pp. 306f. I also quoted his argument in notes in
my Japanese translation, p. 278, n. 199, 200.

     With best regards,

Seishi Karashima

2017-02-13 0:35 GMT+09:00 Fumi Yao via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info
>:

> Dear Heiner,
>
> I think none of the three stories of Vi?vantara in the M?lasarv?stiv?da
> Vinaya ("the Vi?vantara-J?taka I--III" in Panglung 1981 "Preliminary
> remarks on the udd?nas in the vinaya of the M?lasarv?stiv?din," p.229) and
> the Vi?vantar?vad?na in the Gilgit manuscripts ("the Vi?vantara-J?taka IV,"
> ibid.) gives a?vave?a. They do not mention ?akra's help in this part of the
> story, either.
>
> Vi? I (Tibetan, Chinese, and newly identified Skt fragments): Vi?vantara
> gives both the coach and horses to a Brahmin and goes to the forest on foot.
>
> Vi? II (Tibetan and Skt fragments): After he gave the coach to some
> Brahmins, Vi?vantara rides his horse. Later, he gives the horse to another
> group of Brahmins and proceeds on foot.
>
> Vi? III (Tibetan, Chinese, and Gilgit manuscript): same as Vi? I.
>
> Vi? IV (Gilgit manuscript): same as Vi? I.
>
> I hope this helps you.
>
> Kindest regards,
> Fumi
>
> Fumi Yao
>
> McMaster University
> University Hall Room 104
> 1280 Main Street West
> Hamilton, Ontario L8S 4L8
> Canada
>
> 2017-02-12 8:41 GMT-05:00 Rolf Heinrich Koch via INDOLOGY <
> indology at list.indology.info>:
>
>> Dear listmembers,
>> there is one episode in the Vessantara-J?taka which describes the
>> following plot:
>>
>> ...After Vessantara gave away the two horses of his coach, Sakka advised
>> four junior gods
>> to pull Vessantara's coach. They appeared in the guise of a red deer....
>>
>> Some murals which depict this plot show four horses instead of the red
>> deer.
>> As the only textual source I found one edition of the Butsarana with
>> a?vave?a (for m?gave?a).
>> All Pali and further Sinhala sources read m?gave?a.
>>
>> I suppose there is a northern tradition which records a?vave?a (Gilgit,
>> Tibetan or Chinese).
>>
>> Anyone came across this version and is willing to share this with me?
>>
>> Thank you in advance
>>
>> Heiner
>>
>> Rolf Heinrich Koch
>> https://rolfheinrichkoch.wordpress.com/
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
>> committee)
>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
>> unsubscribe)
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
> committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
> unsubscribe)
>


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From rolfheiner.koch at gmail.com  Mon Feb 13 04:44:56 2017
From: rolfheiner.koch at gmail.com (Rolf Heinrich Koch)
Date: Mon, 13 Feb 17 10:14:56 +0530
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Buddhist murals Sri Lanka Vessantara-Jataka
In-Reply-To: <CAEd5L8giK0=Oe1qxwQJuN_of8VOhSQcwYxoKpYDwjr0yQtE0vA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <2944000e-d52d-2c35-5c2d-9ace101b5301@gmail.com>

Dear Fumi, Christoph and Seishi,

thank you very much for your help. So I came back to the roots, to Alsdorf.

Lately I came across this stanza in the Pali-version.

The Sinhalese version appears to be more close to this Pali-stanza than 
the Pali-commentary.

While writing about this mural I am staying in Sri Lanka.

I will try to contact my friends at the LMU in Munich to send me a copy 
of that article.


Best regards

Heiner


Rolf Heinrich Koch


Am 13.02.2017 um 06:41 schrieb Seishi Karashima:
>
> Dear colleagues,
>
> I published nearly thirty years ago an annotated Japanese translation 
> of the P?li /Vessantara-j?taka/, when I was studying under Prof. K. R. 
> Norman in Cambridge.
>
> /Vessantara-j?taka Yakuch? /(???????????????) [An Annotated 
> Japanese Translation of the P?li /Vessantara-j?taka/], in: /The 
> J?takas/ (???????), vol. 10, ed. by Hajime Nakamura, Tokyo: 
> Shunj?sha, 1988, pp. 149?257, 263?317, ISBN4-393-11620-8.
>
> As it is written in Japanese, I assume that no Western scholars of our 
> field has read it. When I wrote this, I checked all the then available 
> Pali manuscripts, and compared the Pali version with the Sanskrit, 
> Tibetan and Chinese versions and added 675 philological notes. 
> According to my notes, none of the versions except for the Pali J?taka 
> has the part in question.
>
> The discrepancy between four red deer and four horses results not from 
> the difference of the Southern and Northern traditions but from the 
> interpretation of the Pali verse, no. 215 in the /Vessantara-j?taka/ 
> itself.
>
> The latter half of the verse in question reads as follows: 
> /migarohiccava??ena /(/v.l. mig? ro-/; CpA/mig? rohitava??ena/) 
> /dakkhi?(?)ass? vahanti ma?/ ?The excellent (lit. able) horses, 
> looking like red deer, carrying me on.? (Cf. M. Cone, /The Perfect 
> Generosity of Prince Vessantara/, Clarendon Press 1977, p. 33).
>
> The composer of the prose part (ca. 5c. C.E.) misunderstood this verse 
> and wrote as follows: /catt?ro devaputt? rohiccamigava??ena ?gantv? 
> rathadhura? sampa?icchitv? agama?su/ ?Four gods in the guise of red 
> deer came, took the yoke of the carriage and went forward.? (cf. Cone, 
> loc. cit.; she misunderstood the meaning of /sampa?icchitv?/). Thus, 
> /dakkhi?(?)ass?/ in the verse was neglected in the prose part. This 
> misinterpretation might have based on the variant readings /mig? rohi- 
> /in some manuscripts and CpA.
>
> Murals, which show four horses, and the Butsarana must base on the old 
> verse, while those, which depict the red deer instead, base on the prose.
>
> Such discrepancipies between prose and verses are found also in the 
> /Mah?vastu/ and /Saddharmapu??ar?ka/, on which I am now working.
>
> What I wrote above is not my finding. Alsdorf wrote about this 
> discrepancy in the /Vessantara-j?taka/ 60 years ago!: ?Bemerkungen zum 
> Vessantara-J?taka?, in: Wiener Zeitschrift f?r die Kunde S?d- und 
> Ost-Asiens I (1957):37-38 = /Kleine Schriften/, hrsg. von Albrecht 
> Wezler, Wiesbaden 1974 (GlSt 10), pp. 306f. I also quoted his argument 
> in notes in my Japanese translation, p. 278, n. 199, 200.
>
>    With best regards,
>
> Seishi Karashima
>
>
> 2017-02-13 0:35 GMT+09:00 Fumi Yao via INDOLOGY 
> <indology at list.indology.info <mailto:indology at list.indology.info>>:
>
>     Dear Heiner,
>
>     I think none of the three stories of Vi?vantara in the
>     M?lasarv?stiv?da Vinaya ("the Vi?vantara-J?taka I--III" in
>     Panglung 1981 "Preliminary remarks on the udd?nas in the vinaya of
>     the M?lasarv?stiv?din," p.229) and the Vi?vantar?vad?na in the
>     Gilgit manuscripts ("the Vi?vantara-J?taka IV," ibid.) gives
>     a?vave?a. They do not mention ?akra's help in this part of the
>     story, either.
>
>     Vi? I (Tibetan, Chinese, and newly identified Skt fragments):
>     Vi?vantara gives both the coach and horses to a Brahmin and goes
>     to the forest on foot.
>
>     Vi? II (Tibetan and Skt fragments): After he gave the coach to
>     some Brahmins, Vi?vantara rides his horse. Later, he gives the
>     horse to another group of Brahmins and proceeds on foot.
>
>     Vi? III (Tibetan, Chinese, and Gilgit manuscript): same as Vi? I.
>
>     Vi? IV (Gilgit manuscript): same as Vi? I.
>
>     I hope this helps you.
>
>     Kindest regards,
>     Fumi
>
>     Fumi Yao
>
>     McMaster University
>     University Hall Room 104
>     1280 Main Street West
>     Hamilton, Ontario L8S 4L8
>     Canada
>
>     2017-02-12 8:41 GMT-05:00 Rolf Heinrich Koch via INDOLOGY
>     <indology at list.indology.info <mailto:indology at list.indology.info>>:
>
>         Dear listmembers,
>         there is one episode in the Vessantara-J?taka which describes
>         the following plot:
>
>         ...After Vessantara gave away the two horses of his coach,
>         Sakka advised four junior gods
>         to pull Vessantara's coach. They appeared in the guise of a
>         red deer....
>
>         Some murals which depict this plot show four horses instead of
>         the red deer.
>         As the only textual source I found one edition of the
>         Butsarana with a?vave?a (for m?gave?a).
>         All Pali and further Sinhala sources read m?gave?a.
>
>         I suppose there is a northern tradition which records a?vave?a
>         (Gilgit, Tibetan or Chinese).
>
>         Anyone came across this version and is willing to share this
>         with me?
>
>         Thank you in advance
>
>         Heiner
>
>         Rolf Heinrich Koch
>         https://rolfheinrichkoch.wordpress.com/
>         <https://rolfheinrichkoch.wordpress.com/>
>
>
>         _______________________________________________
>         INDOLOGY mailing list
>         INDOLOGY at list.indology.info <mailto:INDOLOGY at list.indology.info>
>         indology-owner at list.indology.info
>         <mailto:indology-owner at list.indology.info> (messages to the
>         list's managing committee)
>         http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list
>         options or unsubscribe)
>
>
>
>     _______________________________________________
>     INDOLOGY mailing list
>     INDOLOGY at list.indology.info <mailto:INDOLOGY at list.indology.info>
>     indology-owner at list.indology.info
>     <mailto:indology-owner at list.indology.info> (messages to the list's
>     managing committee)
>     http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list
>     options or unsubscribe)
>
>



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From shankaranair at gmail.com  Mon Feb 13 12:58:19 2017
From: shankaranair at gmail.com (Shankar Nair)
Date: Mon, 13 Feb 17 07:58:19 -0500
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Image search
In-Reply-To: <82C3E42590D939418C74DD76B97DDED047C0F7AA@xm-mbx-06-prod>
Message-ID: <CAN5=mo5KYP7pBzECCNRgtk=tjnLgt1ULr4ML9y7wu8ErKsqjFQ@mail.gmail.com>

Dear Dr. Kapstein,

The drawing is held in the British Museum Collection. Please see here:

http://www.britishmuseum.org/research/collection_online/
collection_object_details.aspx?objectId=183756&partId=1&
searchText=Shah+Jahan&images=true&page=1

All best wishes,
Shankar


Shankar Nair

Assistant Professor
Department of Religious Studies and
Middle Eastern & South Asian Languages & Cultures
University of Virginia
363 Gibson Hall
1550 Jefferson Park Avenue
Charlottesville, VA 22903


On Mon, Feb 6, 2017 at 3:27 PM, Matthew Kapstein via INDOLOGY <
indology at list.indology.info> wrote:

> Dear friends,
>
> Might any of you know which collection owns this drawing of the Mughal
> prince
> Dara Shikoh conversing with a Pandit?
>
>
>
>
>
>
> thanks in advance for any leads,
> Matthew
>
> Matthew Kapstein
> Directeur d'?tudes,
> Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes
>
> Numata Visiting Professor of Buddhist Studies,
> The University of Chicago
> ------------------------------
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
> committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
> unsubscribe)
>


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From mkapstei at uchicago.edu  Mon Feb 13 13:39:40 2017
From: mkapstei at uchicago.edu (Matthew Kapstein)
Date: Mon, 13 Feb 17 13:39:40 +0000
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Image search
In-Reply-To: <CAN5=mo5KYP7pBzECCNRgtk=tjnLgt1ULr4ML9y7wu8ErKsqjFQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <82C3E42590D939418C74DD76B97DDED047C11558@xm-mbx-06-prod>

Dear Dr. Nair,

Thank you so much for solving this mystery. As I may wish to
use this image in a planned future publication, I'm glad now to know
to whom I must apply for the needed permission.

thanks again,
Matthew

P.S. Actually I'll be visiting UVA at the end of the week.

Matthew Kapstein
Directeur d'?tudes,
Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes

Numata Visiting Professor of Buddhist Studies,
The University of Chicago
________________________________



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From christophe.vielle at uclouvain.be  Mon Feb 13 14:38:15 2017
From: christophe.vielle at uclouvain.be (Christophe Vielle)
Date: Mon, 13 Feb 17 15:38:15 +0100
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Once Upon a Time in India
Message-ID: <3A3C4274-2B1D-414F-9A17-7144A91D7981@uclouvain.be>

>From a French adventure novel (1867) by Alfred Assollant (1827-1886), in search of the "Gurukaramta" pre-Vedic text,
imagining United States of India (against the British power)
http://www.lemonde.fr/culture/article/2017/02/12/la-resurrection-d-un-livre-anticolonialiste-en-inde_5078437_3246.html
https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Les_Aventures_(merveilleuses_mais_authentiques)_du_capitaine_Corcoran
(no English version...)
translated into English recently (2016)
http://www.thehindu.com/todays-paper/tp-features/tp-sundaymagazine/A-Frenchman-in-the-Orient/article14401677.ece
http://indiatoday.intoday.in/story/french-telling-books-authors/1/709376.html
? the original can be read here :
http://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/bpt6k645952.pdf (part 1)
and
http://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/bpt6k64596d.pdf (part 2)
or
https://books.google.be/books?id=o9MtAAAAMAAJ  (2 parts)
? this page about German philology (supposed to be according German newspapers, as viewed by the French author):

See: https://books.google.be/books?id=o9MtAAAAMAAJ&printsec=frontcover&dq=inauthor:%22Alfred+Assollant%22&hl=fr&sa=X&redir_esc=y#v=onepage&q=Gunker&f=false
???????????????????
Christophe Vielle
Louvain-la-Neuve



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From martin.gansten at pbhome.se  Mon Feb 13 16:18:59 2017
From: martin.gansten at pbhome.se (Martin Gansten)
Date: Mon, 13 Feb 17 17:18:59 +0100
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Kept women?
Message-ID: <e24a566c-d2b2-a01a-1447-e8bd64913eb0@pbhome.se>

In an astrological text I have come across several instances of the 
compounds /dh?tastr?/ and /dh?tabh?ry?/, which are new to me and which I 
have been unable to find in dictionaries. From the context it seems 
possible that the phrases could refer to a mistress, quite literally a 
'kept woman'. Can anyone confirm or correct this suspicion?

Thanks in advance,
Martin Gansten



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From slaje at kabelmail.de  Mon Feb 13 16:56:15 2017
From: slaje at kabelmail.de (Walter Slaje)
Date: Mon, 13 Feb 17 17:56:15 +0100
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Kept women?
In-Reply-To: <e24a566c-d2b2-a01a-1447-e8bd64913eb0@pbhome.se>
Message-ID: <CALoZ1nW7cyxo7jYDxU=W5UWp+z3LEio_zNmL9W3QutmBCucYZA@mail.gmail.com>

Dear Martin,

this sounds like a variant expression for avaruddh? (str?) / avaruddhastr?.
The latter is explained in Olivelle's Dictionary (2015) as a "mistress or
concubine in the exclusive keeping of one individual until his death".
Avaruddh? is an old and quite common term for women kept in a harem
(avarodha), testified as orodh? also in P?li texts. Closest to your
"dh?tastr?" seems to come "dh?t?" ("a concubine"). Evidence to be found in
Jaina texts: B. J. Sandesara, Lexicographical Studies in ?Jaina
Sanskrit?. *Journal
of the Oriental Institute Baroda* 9.4 (1960): 60.
A cheerful read: David Smith, ?One man and many women: some notes on the
harem in mainly ancient and medieval India from sundry perspectives.?
In: *Cracow
Indological Studies* 14 (2012), S. 1-16.

Best wishes,
Walter

2017-02-13 17:18 GMT+01:00 Martin Gansten via INDOLOGY <
indology at list.indology.info>:

> In an astrological text I have come across several instances of the
> compounds *dh?tastr?* and *dh?tabh?ry?*, which are new to me and which I
> have been unable to find in dictionaries. From the context it seems
> possible that the phrases could refer to a mistress, quite literally a
> 'kept woman'. Can anyone confirm or correct this suspicion?
>
> Thanks in advance,
> Martin Gansten
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
> committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
> unsubscribe)
>


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From arlogriffiths at hotmail.com  Mon Feb 13 22:07:52 2017
From: arlogriffiths at hotmail.com (Arlo Griffiths)
Date: Mon, 13 Feb 17 22:07:52 +0000
Subject: [INDOLOGY] an inscribed Jaina bronze at Hyderabad
Message-ID: <HE1PR0801MB17724D88DC24D13FD4EC76F8A5590@HE1PR0801MB1772.eurprd08.prod.outlook.com>

Dear colleagues,


During a recent visit to the Telangana State Museum, I was able to photograph a Jaina sculpture (shown in the attached photo) which bears an inscription. Although I don't believe the image can be as old as the museum label makes it out to be, the script used for the inscription does seem to be fairly old for Jaina material from Andhra, perhaps 7th or 8th century. I was hoping to find a published discussion of the sculpture and its inscription in this article:


Ramesan, N. 1963. ?Jaina Bronzes from Bapatla.? Lalit Kala 13: 28?30.


But I have drawn a blank here. In fact the sculpture's accession no. 2003-278 indicates that it may be a recent acquisition.


Does anyone happen to know any publication concerning this sculpture, and specifically the source for the reading cited on the museum's label?


Arlo Griffiths




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From krishnaprasadah.g at gmail.com  Tue Feb 14 06:24:02 2017
From: krishnaprasadah.g at gmail.com (Krishnaprasad G)
Date: Tue, 14 Feb 17 11:54:02 +0530
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Kept women?
In-Reply-To: <CALoZ1nW7cyxo7jYDxU=W5UWp+z3LEio_zNmL9W3QutmBCucYZA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAODNnZjVFBZarX87=48sBb4EHWxNzMT1wdQ2XRXkKGuUBNwKFg@mail.gmail.com>

Can you please send me the full verse or line?

On Mon, Feb 13, 2017 at 10:26 PM, Walter Slaje via INDOLOGY <
indology at list.indology.info> wrote:

>
> Dear Martin,
>
> this sounds like a variant expression for avaruddh? (str?) /
> avaruddhastr?. The latter is explained in Olivelle's Dictionary (2015) as
> a "mistress or concubine in the exclusive keeping of one individual until
> his death". Avaruddh? is an old and quite common term for women kept in a
> harem (avarodha), testified as orodh? also in P?li texts. Closest to your
> "dh?tastr?" seems to come "dh?t?" ("a concubine"). Evidence to be found
> in Jaina texts: B. J. Sandesara, Lexicographical Studies in ?Jaina
> Sanskrit?. *Journal of the Oriental Institute Baroda* 9.4 (1960): 60.
> A cheerful read: David Smith, ?One man and many women: some notes on the
> harem in mainly ancient and medieval India from sundry perspectives.? In: *Cracow
> Indological Studies* 14 (2012), S. 1-16.
>
> Best wishes,
> Walter
>
> 2017-02-13 17:18 GMT+01:00 Martin Gansten via INDOLOGY <
> indology at list.indology.info>:
>
>> In an astrological text I have come across several instances of the
>> compounds *dh?tastr?* and *dh?tabh?ry?*, which are new to me and which I
>> have been unable to find in dictionaries. From the context it seems
>> possible that the phrases could refer to a mistress, quite literally a
>> 'kept woman'. Can anyone confirm or correct this suspicion?
>>
>> Thanks in advance,
>> Martin Gansten
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
>> committee)
>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
>> unsubscribe)
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
> committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
> unsubscribe)
>


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From martin.gansten at pbhome.se  Tue Feb 14 08:02:20 2017
From: martin.gansten at pbhome.se (Martin Gansten)
Date: Tue, 14 Feb 17 09:02:20 +0100
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Kept women?
In-Reply-To: <CALoZ1nW7cyxo7jYDxU=W5UWp+z3LEio_zNmL9W3QutmBCucYZA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <ee53ef0b-d81b-0ecd-8754-512492804a99@pbhome.se>

Dear Walter,

Many thanks for confirming my suspicion -- no doubt dh?t? and dh?tastr? 
mean the same. I had somehow missed Olivelle's /Dictionary/, but have 
now rectified the mistake and ordered my copy.

Best wishes,
Martin

Den 2017-02-13 kl. 17:56, skrev Walter Slaje:
>
> Dear Martin,
>
> this sounds like a variant expression for avaruddh? (str?) / 
> avaruddhastr?. The latter is explained in Olivelle's Dictionary (2015) 
> as a "mistress or concubine in the exclusive keeping of one individual 
> until his death". Avaruddh? is an old and quite common term for women 
> kept in a harem (avarodha), testified as orodh? also in P?li texts. 
> Closest to your "dh?tastr?" seems to come "dh?t?" ("a concubine"). 
> Evidence to be found in Jaina texts: B. J. Sandesara, Lexicographical 
> Studies in ?Jaina Sanskrit?. /Journal of the Oriental Institute 
> Baroda/ 9.4 (1960): 60.
> A cheerful read: David Smith, ?One man and many women: some notes on 
> the harem in mainly ancient and medieval India from sundry 
> perspectives.?In: /Cracow Indological Studies/ 14 (2012), S. 1-16.
>
> Best wishes,
> Walter



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From peter.schreiner at aoi.uzh.ch  Tue Feb 14 08:42:32 2017
From: peter.schreiner at aoi.uzh.ch (Peter Schreiner)
Date: Tue, 14 Feb 17 09:42:32 +0100
Subject: [INDOLOGY] New publication: Satsangijivanam
Message-ID: <a2aba86d-a1ce-ab36-3182-f608c28c626d@aoi.uzh.ch>

I am happy to announce the publication of "The Satsangijivanam by 
?atananda : The life and teachings of Swaminarayan : An English summary 
of contents with index", edited by Jaydev A. Jani and Peter Schreiner, 
which is available as ebook and/or as paper copy (hardbound).

Swami Sahaj?nanda (1781-1830), the founder of the Swaminarayan Movement 
let his immediate disciple ?at?nanda write the Satsa?gij?vanam in order 
to guarantee that his teaching and influence continue to live among his 
followers. The content of this extensive work, composed in metrical 
Sanskrit, is here presented in an English summary, supplemented by an 
index of names and motifs. The text describes the biography of Swami 
Sahaj?nanda and is a revealing document for the religious situation of 
Hinduism in the Gujarat of its period. As a Dharmashastra it prescribes 
the customs to be observed during festivals and the norms and values to 
be followed in private and public life, norms that should replace and 
reform practices considered as improper (like animal sacrifice).

The book is available for free download as pdf-file from 
CrossAsia-eBooks. --
http://dx.doi.org/10.11588/xabooks.185.247
A paper copy (hardbound, 612 p.) can be ordered for 44.90 Euros.

Along with the summary the digitized transliteration of the complete 
Sanskrit text is made available in two formats (input format and 
conventional text format) through the link on the CrossAsia-eBooks 
repository for research data
http://dx.doi.org/10.11588/data/10095

The Sanskrit text is also deposited in the textarchive of the Institute 
of Indology at Z?rich where the Satsa?gij?vanam project was carried out 
by Prof. Jaydev A. Jani and myself.
http://www.aoi.uzh.ch/en/indologie/textarchive.html


-- 
Peter Schreiner
Chemin de Boracles 94
1008 Jouxtens-M?zery
Switzerland

Tel. +41-21-635 0365
mobile: +41-76-422 0365
email:peter.schreiner at aoi.uzh.ch



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From oguibenine at gmail.com  Tue Feb 14 21:02:08 2017
From: oguibenine at gmail.com (Boris Oguibenine)
Date: Tue, 14 Feb 17 16:02:08 -0500
Subject: [INDOLOGY] women in the harem
Message-ID: <CANmMsHFt4TUemY-q9Zn7ChRUkUBgXsjHtr_W1E7+u4jdQYQjMA@mail.gmail.com>

In addition to the evidence found in the Jaina texts, one can notice *orodhe
*LocSg  ?in the harem? (Mah?vastu 1.143.7, 1.200.3, 2.3.21) resulting from
the alternation *ava*- ~ *o*- (cf. Geiger,   A P?li Grammar. Translated
into English by B. Ghosh. Revised and Edited by K.N. Norman,  Oxford: The
Pali Text Society,  1994, ? 26), but no *ava*-form of this word seems to be
recorded in BHS.

Boris OGUIBENINE
Universit?  de Strasbourg


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From bill.m.mak at gmail.com  Wed Feb 15 00:16:29 2017
From: bill.m.mak at gmail.com (Bill Mak)
Date: Tue, 14 Feb 17 19:16:29 -0500
Subject: [INDOLOGY] ACSAM and 42500 South Asian manuscripts in North America
In-Reply-To: <96F57578-47D8-4FCA-ABD1-08ACBC770B5F@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <E8DB982B-6B7F-4C6C-BCD3-CE9C642104F5@gmail.com>

Dear colleagues,

Many thanks for the many offline responses to my earlier inquiry. As some of you appear to be just as keen as I am to find out more, I include here some references, with the hope that the scholars on the list who are more qualified than me would shed more light on this subject:

- Poleman, Horace Irvin. 1938. A Census of Indic Manuscripts in the United States and Canada. New Haven, Connecticut: American Oriental Society. (Available on hathitrust.org)

- Peter Scharf?s Sanskrit Library, with catalogues of Sanskrit Manuscripts from Brown, Havard and U Penn:
http://sanskritlibrary.org/catindex.html

- Special collection:
Pingree, David. 2007. A Catalogue of the Sanskrit Manuscripts at Columbia University. New York: American Institute of Buddhist Studies.

- A number of catalogue updates (also as part of his grant application) are kept in Pingree?s archive at the American Philosophical Society. I was surprised to learn for example that my Alma Mater McGill University has a handful of jyoti?a manuscripts!

- The ACSAM project Pingree proposed followed the model of his ?Census of the Exact Sciences in Sanskrit? (CESS, A1-5 [by author], five volumes, 1970-1994). Pingree was unable to finished A6 [?-H] and the B-Series [by title]. At the moment, myself and a number of scholars are launching a project to digitalize CESS. Naturally, CESS include manuscripts from US and Canada.

Best regards,

Bill Mak


> On Feb 10, 2017, at 7:39 AM, Bill Mak <bill.m.mak at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Dear colleagues,
> 
> I was going through the late David Pingree?s archive at the American Philosophical Society and came across the documentation of his ambitious manuscript cataloguing project for the American Committee for South Asian Manuscript (ACSAM) as part his unsuccessful application of the NEH grant in the 1990s. Pingree envisioned the project to take 20 years to complete and gave an overview of the 42500 manuscripts in North America (22,500 in Arabic, 12,000 in Persian and more than 8,000 in Sanskrit and others Indian languages).
> 
> I am aware of Peter Scharf?s NEH cataloguing project of the 1700 Sanskrit mss at Havard (2009-2013) and his work in "From Mulberry Leaves to Silk Scrolls? (2015). But there also seems to be an ACSAM webpage on the Brown server which no longer exists. Before I reach out to specific colleagues, I thought I should tap into the collective wisdom of the list and wonder if anyone on the list could share with me more information on the background and future of the ACSAM and these manuscripts in various institutions in North America.
> 
> Best wishes
> 
> Bill Mak
> 
> -- 
> Bill M. Mak, PhD
> 
> Visiting research scholar
> Institute for the Study of the Ancient World (ISAW)
> New York University
> 15 East 84th Street
> New York, NY 10028
> US
> 
> Associate Professor
> Institute for Research in Humanities, Kyoto University
> Yoshidahonmachi, Sakyo-ku, Kyoto, Japan 606-8501
> ?606-8501 ??????????
> ???????????
> 
> email: mak at zinbun.kyoto-u.ac.jp <mailto:mak at zinbun.kyoto-u.ac.jp>
> Tel:+81-75-753-6961
> Fax:+81-75-753-6903
> 
> copies of my publications may be found at:
> http://www.billmak.com <http://www.billmak.com/>



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From wujastyk at gmail.com  Wed Feb 15 16:00:25 2017
From: wujastyk at gmail.com (Dominik Wujastyk)
Date: Wed, 15 Feb 17 09:00:25 -0700
Subject: [INDOLOGY] ACSAM and 42500 South Asian manuscripts in North America
In-Reply-To: <E8DB982B-6B7F-4C6C-BCD3-CE9C642104F5@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAKdt-CeuxJw=BjKeP5j5sV+udhOfSw8OScLD3kVvG4PaO-FPoQ@mail.gmail.com>

Poleman's *Census* is also at Archive.org,
<https://archive.org/details/PolemanCensus1938> for those who can't get
into Hathitrust.
?


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From peter.pasedach at googlemail.com  Thu Feb 16 04:16:11 2017
From: peter.pasedach at googlemail.com (Peter Mukunda Pasedach)
Date: Thu, 16 Feb 17 05:16:11 +0100
Subject: =?utf-8?Q?[INDOLOGY]_E-Text_of_Kalha=E1=B9=87a's_R=C4=81jatara=E1=B9=85gin=C4=AB=3F?=
Message-ID: <CAE32J=5Hw2D4drfaYkhKSyQiQZ7XE6Eh6k3t_kKXbb8caP54ZQ@mail.gmail.com>

Dear Indology-list,

I was wondering if anybody had prepared a searchable e-text of
Kalha?a's R?jatara?gin??

Best,

Peter





From m.gluckman at anu.edu.au  Thu Feb 16 07:02:09 2017
From: m.gluckman at anu.edu.au (Martin Gluckman)
Date: Thu, 16 Feb 17 12:32:09 +0530
Subject: =?utf-8?Q?[INDOLOGY]_A_semester_of_caraka_|_A_semester_of_p=C4=81=E1=B9=87ini?=
Message-ID: <CA+wUuzNN+kAZ93ZC1zpiOMnhtFdEGrMX=LO_g6JKY0bNSpaR8g@mail.gmail.com>

Dear Friends,

I would humbly appreciate input from those who have taught these subjects
to advise what would be a suitable reading material (Sanskrit),
supplementary reference material and course layout for a student who has
completed already 4 years of university Sanskrit so has a competent reading
and grammar capability and would like to do a semester of caraka and one of
p??ini.

With Kindest Wishes,

Martin Gluckman


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From mmdesh at umich.edu  Thu Feb 16 12:02:31 2017
From: mmdesh at umich.edu (Madhav Deshpande)
Date: Thu, 16 Feb 17 07:02:31 -0500
Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_[INDOLOGY]_A_semester_of_caraka_|_A_semester_of_p=C4=81=E1=B9=87ini?=
In-Reply-To: <CA+wUuzNN+kAZ93ZC1zpiOMnhtFdEGrMX=LO_g6JKY0bNSpaR8g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAB3-dzf14qbMpU+RQN00O4vQhGHzMtzwiOCNujEbDXhiW8zEbA@mail.gmail.com>

Dear Martin,

     For a one semester introduction to P??ini, I would suggest that you
use an abridged version of P??ini like the Laghusiddh?ntakaumud?.  For
general readings on P??ini, I find the first Introductory volume of Rama
Nath Sharma's translation of the A???dhy?y? very useful and readable,
supplemented by a selection of readable articles on P??ini.

Madhav Deshpande

On Thu, Feb 16, 2017 at 2:02 AM, Martin Gluckman via INDOLOGY <
indology at list.indology.info> wrote:

> Dear Friends,
>
> I would humbly appreciate input from those who have taught these subjects
> to advise what would be a suitable reading material (Sanskrit),
> supplementary reference material and course layout for a student who has
> completed already 4 years of university Sanskrit so has a competent reading
> and grammar capability and would like to do a semester of caraka and one of
> p??ini.
>
> With Kindest Wishes,
>
> Martin Gluckman
>
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
> committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
> unsubscribe)
>


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From vajpeyi at csds.in  Thu Feb 16 14:22:32 2017
From: vajpeyi at csds.in (Ananya Vajpeyi)
Date: Thu, 16 Feb 17 19:52:32 +0530
Subject: [INDOLOGY] New Essay on "Classical India"
Message-ID: <CAHxuC0SLepkMCOZqVchO=PL1vvTVLQwXUdKLzn_VEKSqur=mAQ@mail.gmail.com>

Dear Colleagues,

Wanted to share a new essay: "Thinking and Counter-Thinking: On 'Classical
India'" which appears in the February issue of Guftugu, (www.guftugu.in), a
quarterly e-journal of poetry, prose, conversations, images and videos run
by the Indian Writers? Forum.

http://guftugu.in/2017/02/thinking-and-counter-thinking-on-classical-india/

In earlier issues of Guftugu you will find essays on language, literature,
criticism, civilisation, culture and related matters of interest to this
list by Romila Thapar, K. Satchidanandan, Githa Hariharan, Ritu Menon,
Shashi Deshpande and others.

http://guftugu.in/category/essay/

I hope you enjoy the piece, and find it worth your while exploring and
engaging with other materials on this very interesting and relatively new
site.

All best,

Ananya Vajpeyi
vajpeyi at csds.in







-- 

*Ananya Vajpeyi *
*Fellow*
*Centre for the Study of Developing Societies*
*29 Rajpur Road, Civil Lines*
*New Delhi 110054*
*e: vajpeyi at csds.in <vajpeyi at csds.in>*
*ext: 229*

*http://www.csds.in/faculty_ananya_vajpeyi.htm
<http://www.csds.in/faculty_ananya_vajpeyi.htm>*


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From alanus1216 at yahoo.com  Thu Feb 16 17:37:03 2017
From: alanus1216 at yahoo.com (Allen Thrasher)
Date: Thu, 16 Feb 17 17:37:03 +0000
Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_[INDOLOGY]_Bas=C3=ADlica_do_Bom_Jesus_in_Konkani_and_Hindi?=
In-Reply-To: <CALNcvFv+3OQXbpc13MKTsQ=++s9Ny9vq0-zwrM5trB906Bj9QQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <315600713.688658.1487266623522@mail.yahoo.com>

Artur,
I thought I had posted the suggestion you contact the chancery of the Archbishop-Patriarch of Goa, but I don't see my message so perhaps it got lost. Anyway, the archdiocese has a website <?http://www.archgoadaman.org/?> and a directory of offices so one can pick which to approach first <?http://www.archgoadaman.org/content/diocesan-bodies?>.
Good luck,
Allen



 

    On Monday, February 6, 2017 1:21 PM, Artur Karp via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info> wrote:
 

 Dear Colleagues,
Is it possible that no one on the List has access to Konkani descriptions of the Goan Basilica do Bom Jesus?
With sad regards,?
Artur Karp
2017-01-31 10:15 GMT+01:00 Artur Karp <karp at uw.edu.pl>:

Dear List,?
I am involved in the preparation of the supplement to the?Official List of Polish Geographical Names of the World?-?already published in 2005, by the Head Office of Geodesy and Cartography (G??wny Urz?d Geodezji i Kartografii), Warsaw, Poland -??and?accessible at:?
https://www.academia.edu/90623 14/Azja_Po%C5%82udniowa_Artur_ Karp_ed._Nazewnictwo_geografic zne_%C5%9Awiata_Zeszyt_4_G%C5% 82%C3%B3wny_Urz%C4%85d_Geodezj i_i_Kartografii_Warszawa_2005
?The supplement ?- planned to be published as the?Official List of Polish Names of Historical Monuments and Buildings of the World?- is??to include?formal names of selected important South Asian historical buildings/monuments; a provisional, not yet completed list, is accessible at:
https://www.academia.edu/23167 699/Nazwy_budowli_-_Azja_Po%C5 %82udniowa_Names_of_buildings_ and_other_architectural_monume nts_in_South_Asia_

Usually, I do not have problems in locating the formal, official names of geographical objects in India.?

The?Bas?lica do Bom Jesus, however,??eludes me. What I come across is?Borea Jezuchi Bajilika,?as at:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ Basilica_of_Bom_Jesus

Since the presumably Konkani name is already a transliteration, it cannot ?serve as the basis for precise transliteration and the Polish transcription.?
What I need are VERY FORMAL names of the Basilica - both in?Hindi?and?Konkani?- such as those formally used and published in the Indian Catholic Church sources.?

If you would give me the names?as they are written in Devanagari, I could easily transliterate them - using myself the ISO 15919 rules of Romanization.?

Thank you in advance for your kind help,?
Artur Karp (ret.)?South Asian Studies Dept.?University of WarsawPoland


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INDOLOGY mailing list
INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee)
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From wujastyk at gmail.com  Fri Feb 17 01:45:38 2017
From: wujastyk at gmail.com (Dominik Wujastyk)
Date: Thu, 16 Feb 17 18:45:38 -0700
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Tenured position in Buddhism at the UofA, deadline late March
Message-ID: <CAKdt-CeJ-vY_hBUnq5WqscqYjUoTBLV4W74zO__TmzVAP0k6yg@mail.gmail.com>

[Comment from me, without any inside knowledge of this advertisement: this
is not exclusively for East Asianists. I encourage specialists in South
Asian Buddhism to consider it seriously, as long as they can satisfy the
language requirement.]



Associate Professor, East Asian Religions


Full advertisement and online application process:
http://www.careers.ualberta.ca/Competition/A110231954/


ART East Asian Studies
Competition No. - A110231954
Closing Date - Mar 31, 2017


The Department of East Asian Studies, University of Alberta, invites
applications for a tenured position at the rank of Associate Professor in
East Asian Religions. This is a joint position between East Asian Studies
and the Interdisciplinary Program in Religious Studies, shared 50/50
between the two and East Asian Studies as the home department.


Period, specific region, research focus, and disciplinary specialization
are open, but the successful candidate must have demonstrated teaching
expertise in Buddhism. Applicants must have a PhD in East Asian Studies,
Asian Studies, Religious Studies, or a relevant field, and teaching
experience and publications equivalent to that of a tenured associate
professor. An expert in East Asian Religions, research excellence will be
demonstrated in a record of peer-reviewed publications and presentations in
highly regarded venues. The successful candidate will be fluent in Chinese
or Japanese and be able to handle primary source materials in their
original language(s). The successful candidate will also have knowledge of
the theoretical discourses that define the disciplinary practices of
Religious Studies. A record of external research funding is preferred.


The successful candidate will offer undergraduate courses on East Asia?s
variety of communities and their religious traditions and practices, teach
Introduction to Buddhism (RELIG 240), participate and in some years lead
the entry-level East Asian Studies 101 course or Introduction to Eastern
Religious Traditions (RELIG 103), contribute other teaching and service to
the position?s home department, and participate in the growing graduate
programs in Religious Studies and East Asian Studies by supervising
graduate students on topics in the area of the candidate?s expertise. The
normal teaching load is four courses per academic year.


Established in 1908 as a board-governed, public institution, the University
of Alberta has earned the reputation as being one of the best universities
in Canada, based on our strength in teaching, research, and service. Home
to 39,000 students and 15,000 faculty and staff, the university has an
annual budget of $1.84 billion and attracts nearly $450 million in
sponsored research revenue. The U of A offers close to 400 rigorous
undergraduate, graduate, and professional programs in 18 faculties on five
campuses?including one rural and one francophone campus. The Faculty of
Arts is the oldest and most diverse faculty on campus and one of the
largest research and teaching centres in Western Canada. The University?s
main campus is located in Edmonton, the vibrant, cosmopolitan capital of
the province of Alberta. The Edmonton metropolitan area is the sixth
largest in the country with a population of approximately one million.
Edmonton is located only a few hours? drive from Banff and Jasper National
Parks, which offer skiing in winter and excellent hiking and sightseeing in
summer.


For more information on the University of Alberta and Edmonton, please
visit http://www.ualberta.ca
<https://l.facebook.com/l.php?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ualberta.ca%2F&h=ATM1MpKn_TguS67svI2xJpcFogaZjme8mJ0ulHjD3F7edgwz-Ih0s9UGwPyZzcmudRdy4FLj2ZgJf454Xo8QJxHBSe7kyfk5lJzRwQLKKbBFMRDGa0VSP7HHN_fwozbdziQ8EQ&enc=AZPYsT8LtSpICWnv-EVTCnmZ33_Q_PQ7Unke8IZ49aibvtv3c5o9PDY2wnl3I0OVb315oQb1tz1GmWGbju0-rrhpJqJC4C_eR6-kX2Xtof6yvnYpwnb8JbCTwfSbpRWuOqbDIxJzsEAz2CcbKboX5j4oOyRKG_OD7EhpR5VzsL8NXaWdlw0RnE_27leja3IZvm0&s=1>
 and http://www.infoedmonton.com
<https://l.facebook.com/l.php?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.infoedmonton.com%2F&h=ATOPdIeZc4XdZGVq9kjP8zDjk_RB6BXQrv3zKKFn8z3LnE9eK7P3ZNm8HnJNPRrxYfem5bkZSO6hZclKL9yFwq0SSYpYLHniE0SThkEBscmR2EUt_PVA4GNPP4co4l3KlhyH0Q&enc=AZPeHu4vwwGClMAaQcrKyWmcKcLXPAd1MZO1x_N5Uh5-oQgb0whl3_u396lcJJpmFteHczbjavrdi9CJrIBB7PqSfo4v3qEvuqB8okcdPZy5Grn2y9nWCoRQxL_wuZsp6lsN3QVenIS7uGzGbLgWPPxct_voaKoZfxzvT-HbzTUvsR-a_L6lfTtHBLVlSI2F3-U&s=1>


Salary is commensurate with experience and qualifications in accordance
with the Faculty Agreement as per the negotiated salary scales:
http://www.hrs.ualbrerta.ca/?/Academic/Faculty-2016-2017.pdf
<https://l.facebook.com/l.php?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.hrs.ualbrerta.ca%2FPayandTaxInfo%2F%7E%2Fmedia%2Fhrs%2FPayandTaxInformation%2FSalaryScales%2FAcademic%2FFaculty-2016-2017.pdf&h=ATN0qcsUoCp9xGrO_XzjuEcwifaOUpxsErqn1u0tfE2YocDfQg4HhqaobGL2MSsRrFaKW26Boi1dWvMaxqXIriF9D1L6VUaFiH0Ye7T26gmdQRGmP4JQU9CSmNlyA8-HpOtK0g&enc=AZNUI7ciw1ftmg3zhJ5tNC8kNylXBdus1A_dUALSOEgc03E1Y3tn-_2Gmpwm8glX3g7OVmw67oCdpna8qwmuzn79XPK9NahL9w7u_-MB9uSAMVY3f7EQX0I6ehhnC_w4mmu1kkNQiWbWCoZpzGlHOV_GfyUv722QzKOrBUOGItwcDK_pp9vBIX1Vcqq27f13qjw&s=1>
.


To have your application considered, please select the Apply Online icon at
http://www.careers.ualberta.ca/Competition/A110231954/ and submit the
following:


? cover letter that includes the names and contact information of three
references who have agreed to write for you
? curriculum vitae (CV)
? evidence of excellence in teaching (teaching philosophy statement,
student evaluations, etc.)
? statement of research
? writing sample of between 20 and 40 pages (attach under "list of
publications")


To assist the University in complying with mandatory reporting requirements
of the Immigration and Refugee Protection Act R203(3)(e), please include
the first digit of your Canadian Social Insurance Number in your
application (with your cover letter). If you do not have a Canadian Social
Insurance Number, please indicate this in your application (within the
cover letter).
Applicants are expected to contact their referees and arrange to have them
submit their letters of reference via e-mail to the Executive Assistant in
East Asian Studies, Lora Slobodian lgs4 at ualberta.ca. Referees should enter
?A110231954 REFERENCE" in the subject line.


All applications and letters of reference can be addressed to the attention
of Dr. Christopher Lupke, Chair, Department of East Asian Studies.


Review of applications will start on 24 March 2017. Only those applicants
selected for interviews will be contacted.


Business Address:
Department of East Asian Studies
3-32A Pembina Hall
University of Alberta, Edmonton, AB
Canada, T6G 2H8
How to Apply
Apply Online
Note: Online applications are accepted until midnight Mountain Standard
Time of the closing date.


All qualified candidates are encouraged to apply; however, Canadians and
permanent residents will be given priority. If suitable Canadian citizens
or permanent residents cannot be found, other individuals will be
considered.
The University of Alberta is committed to an equitable, diverse, and
inclusive workforce. We welcome applications from all qualified persons. We
encourage women; First Nations, M?tis and Inuit persons; members of visible
minority groups; persons with disabilities; persons of any sexual
orientation or gender identity and expression; and all those who may
contribute to the further diversification of ideas and the University to
apply.

?


--
Professor Dominik Wujastyk <http://ualberta.academia.edu/DominikWujastyk>
?,?

Singhmar Chair in Classical Indian Society and Polity
?,?

Department of History and Classics <http://historyandclassics.ualberta.ca/>
?,?
University of Alberta, Canada
?.?

South Asia at the U of A:

?sas.ualberta.ca?
??


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From drdhaval2785 at gmail.com  Fri Feb 17 15:45:43 2017
From: drdhaval2785 at gmail.com (dhaval patel)
Date: Fri, 17 Feb 17 21:15:43 +0530
Subject: [INDOLOGY] SK XML version 1.1.0 - vArtikas markup added
In-Reply-To: <CADSGPzXEdWZ8JeF3aNhQrpegKWv=DLsV-NxjQ2Oy3=9G7=kJCw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CADSGPzUFcUWy1G9TR=2xtOBinpjhErFiUi-ZQ_OooDEU34B4Vw@mail.gmail.com>

Apologies for cross posting.

Dear all,
Just to keep all of you abreast, we have recently launched new version
v1.3.1 of the XML file.
For those who prefer to see HTML,
https://drdhaval2785.github.io/siddhantakaumudi/ is the location where
latest HTML generated from XML is placed.

There is also an epub file for those wishing to read on ebook reader.
https://github.com/drdhaval2785/siddhantakaumudi/blob/master/docs/sk.epub


Major changelog is attached below.

For source code - https://github.com/drdhaval2785/siddhantakaumudi/
For bug report / feature request -
https://github.com/drdhaval2785/siddhantakaumudi/issues


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From alanus1216 at yahoo.com  Fri Feb 17 23:01:23 2017
From: alanus1216 at yahoo.com (Allen Thrasher)
Date: Fri, 17 Feb 17 23:01:23 +0000
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Skt vocabulary from the title pages and prefaces of Sanskrit editions
In-Reply-To: <CAKdt-CdgGDXcZ=GM5ScbQYuAdWyR6PBemQnrNdOVVrwHph_1rw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <372761468.1538.1487372483612@mail.yahoo.com>

I would add the pustakalaya 'library' can mean 'publishing house'.
Can't sampadita mean 'assembled' or 'collected' in addition to completed?

Also:
Bhasabhasya and bhasatika. ?Vernacular commentary. My impression is that the first often means not quite a commentary but a somewhat expanded translation into a modern language, while the second may mean more what we usually mean by 'commentary'. ?What do others think?
Yantralaya printing houseSilayantra lithographic press
Allen

Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android 
 
  On Sat, Jan 28, 2017 at 3:53 PM, Dominik Wujastyk via INDOLOGY<indology at list.indology.info> wrote:   I did this little list of vocab list for my students:
   
   - grantham?l? series
   - viracitam composed, written (suffixed to author's name)
   - vy?khy? commentary (Y-viracitay? X-vy?khyay? "with the commentary called X composed by Y")
   - ?khy? called (X-?khyavy?khyay? "with the commentary called X")
   - up?hva? called (signalling a surname)
   - sa??odhitam edited
   - vidy?laya? university, college
   - prak??aka? publisher
   - sa?skara?a edition?
   - m?lyam price
   - mudraka? printer
   - mudra??laya? printing office
   - upodgh?ta? preface, introduction
   - hastalikhitam manuscript
   - pustakam book?
   - ?dar?apustakam manuscript used for comparison or as a witness to the text, exemplar
   - s?c? index
   - s?c?patram index, contents page
   - -mahodaya respected, professor
   - pr?c?na old
   - t??apatram palm leaf
   - pustak?laya? library
   - granthasa?graha? library, book collection
   - pre?ita sent, posted
   - sak???t samupalabdham received from him in person
   - pr?pta got, received?
   - sa?p?dita completed
   - kro?apatram fragment, note
   - ?ippa?? note
   - vivara?am commentary
   - kha?ditapatram broken leaf
   - p??ha? reading (as in, manuscript variant)
   - p??h?ntaram (variant reading)

Additions?? Corrections?
?--
Professor?Dominik Wujastyk?,?
Singhmar Chair in Classical Indian Society and Polity?,?
Department of History and Classics?,?University of Alberta, Canada?.?
South Asia at the U of A:??sas.ualberta.ca???
_______________________________________________
INDOLOGY mailing list
INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee)
http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe)  


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From mmdesh at umich.edu  Sat Feb 18 00:49:28 2017
From: mmdesh at umich.edu (Madhav Deshpande)
Date: Fri, 17 Feb 17 19:49:28 -0500
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Skt vocabulary from the title pages and prefaces of Sanskrit editions
In-Reply-To: <372761468.1538.1487372483612@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <CAB3-dzdwe7bY+YrcS4x--mZexFnqp6RGvVwuRbwV8KSSCButYQ@mail.gmail.com>

Dear Allen,

     At least in the Marathi speaking area, words like granth?laya and
granthap?la have by now been defined as replacements for English "library"
and "librarian".  My father used to teach a course in Granthap?lana??stra
referring to Library Science in Pune.  Similarly, the word Prak??ana and
Prak??aka have come to refer to Publishing and Publisher, while Samp?dana
and Samp?daka have come to refer to editing and editor.  It is possible to
see some fluctuation in the usage of these terms in the 18th and 19th
centuries, but over time, these words have become fixed in Marathi usage
with definite meanings.

Madhav

On Fri, Feb 17, 2017 at 6:01 PM, Allen Thrasher via INDOLOGY <
indology at list.indology.info> wrote:

> I would add the pustakalaya 'library' can mean 'publishing house'.
>
> Can't sampadita mean 'assembled' or 'collected' in addition to completed?
>
> Also:
>
> Bhasabhasya and bhasatika.  Vernacular commentary. My impression is that
> the first often means not quite a commentary but a somewhat expanded
> translation into a modern language, while the second may mean more what we
> usually mean by 'commentary'.  What do others think?
>
> Yantralaya printing house
> Silayantra lithographic press
>
> Allen
>
>
> Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android
> <https://overview.mail.yahoo.com/mobile/?.src=Android>
>
> On Sat, Jan 28, 2017 at 3:53 PM, Dominik Wujastyk via INDOLOGY
> <indology at list.indology.info> wrote:
> I did this little list of vocab list for my students:
>
>
>    - grantham?l? series
>    - viracitam composed, written (suffixed to author's name)
>    - vy?khy? commentary (Y-viracitay? X-vy?khyay? "with the commentary
>    called X composed by Y")
>    - ?khy? called (X-?khyavy?khyay? "with the commentary called X")
>    - up?hva? called (signalling a surname)
>    - sa??odhitam edited
>    - vidy?laya? university, college
>    - prak??aka? publisher
>    - sa?skara?a edition
>    - m?lyam price
>    - mudraka? printer
>    - mudra??laya? printing office
>    - upodgh?ta? preface, introduction
>    - hastalikhitam manuscript
>    - pustakam book
>    - ?dar?apustakam manuscript used for comparison or as a witness to the
>    text, exemplar
>    - s?c? index
>    - s?c?patram index, contents page
>    - -mahodaya respected, professor
>    - pr?c?na old
>    - t??apatram palm leaf
>    - pustak?laya? library
>    - granthasa?graha? library, book collection
>    - pre?ita sent, posted
>    - sak???t samupalabdham received from him in person
>    - pr?pta got, received
>    - sa?p?dita completed
>    - kro?apatram fragment, note
>    - ?ippa?? note
>    - vivara?am commentary
>    - kha?ditapatram broken leaf
>    - p??ha? reading (as in, manuscript variant)
>    - p??h?ntaram (variant reading)
>
>
> Additions?  Corrections?
>
> ?
> --
> Professor Dominik Wujastyk <http://ualberta.academia.edu/DominikWujastyk>
> ?,?
>
> Singhmar Chair in Classical Indian Society and Polity
> ?,?
>
> Department of History and Classics
> <http://historyandclassics.ualberta.ca/>
> ?,?
> University of Alberta, Canada
> ?.?
>
> South Asia at the U of A:
>
> ?sas.ualberta.ca?
> ??
>
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
> committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
> unsubscribe)
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
> committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
> unsubscribe)
>


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From jhakgirish at yahoo.com  Sun Feb 19 15:04:25 2017
From: jhakgirish at yahoo.com (girish jha)
Date: Sun, 19 Feb 17 15:04:25 +0000
Subject: [INDOLOGY] A  query
In-Reply-To: <1650946837.455689.1487516665302.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1650946837.455689.1487516665302@mail.yahoo.com>

Dear colleaguesCould anyone let me know about the publication of Yoga-sutram with Vyasa-bhasya,Bhoja-vritti,vijnanbhiksu's varttika and Tattvavaisaradi all in one book.Is it available in soft copy too ?Thanks in advance,Girish K. JhaDept of SanskritPatna UniversityPatna-800 005


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From tylerwwilliams at gmail.com  Sun Feb 19 17:50:52 2017
From: tylerwwilliams at gmail.com (Tyler Williams)
Date: Sun, 19 Feb 17 11:50:52 -0600
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Skt vocabulary from the title pages and prefaces of Sanskrit editions
In-Reply-To: <372761468.1538.1487372483612@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <CAHRgzy2OpXPcd8jJt=B6rRAwSJ37yi+OaSwe_u59NqJL4w2QAQ@mail.gmail.com>

That is also true for Sanskrit works published with Hindi translations,
commentaries, or paratexts. Bh???bh??ya usually refers to something like an
expanded translation, and this usage of the term actually dates to the
seventeenth century. Bh?????k? is more like a commentary proper; however,
these terms are often used interchangeably in contemporary publications.

And of course, no edition would be complete without a ?uddhipatra
(erratum/corrigenda).

Best,
Tyler



On Fri, Feb 17, 2017 at 5:01 PM, Allen Thrasher via INDOLOGY <
indology at list.indology.info> wrote:

> I would add the pustakalaya 'library' can mean 'publishing house'.
>
> Can't sampadita mean 'assembled' or 'collected' in addition to completed?
>
> Also:
>
> Bhasabhasya and bhasatika.  Vernacular commentary. My impression is that
> the first often means not quite a commentary but a somewhat expanded
> translation into a modern language, while the second may mean more what we
> usually mean by 'commentary'.  What do others think?
>
> Yantralaya printing house
> Silayantra lithographic press
>
> Allen
>
>
> Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android
> <https://overview.mail.yahoo.com/mobile/?.src=Android>
>
> On Sat, Jan 28, 2017 at 3:53 PM, Dominik Wujastyk via INDOLOGY
> <indology at list.indology.info> wrote:
> I did this little list of vocab list for my students:
>
>
>    - grantham?l? series
>    - viracitam composed, written (suffixed to author's name)
>    - vy?khy? commentary (Y-viracitay? X-vy?khyay? "with the commentary
>    called X composed by Y")
>    - ?khy? called (X-?khyavy?khyay? "with the commentary called X")
>    - up?hva? called (signalling a surname)
>    - sa??odhitam edited
>    - vidy?laya? university, college
>    - prak??aka? publisher
>    - sa?skara?a edition
>    - m?lyam price
>    - mudraka? printer
>    - mudra??laya? printing office
>    - upodgh?ta? preface, introduction
>    - hastalikhitam manuscript
>    - pustakam book
>    - ?dar?apustakam manuscript used for comparison or as a witness to the
>    text, exemplar
>    - s?c? index
>    - s?c?patram index, contents page
>    - -mahodaya respected, professor
>    - pr?c?na old
>    - t??apatram palm leaf
>    - pustak?laya? library
>    - granthasa?graha? library, book collection
>    - pre?ita sent, posted
>    - sak???t samupalabdham received from him in person
>    - pr?pta got, received
>    - sa?p?dita completed
>    - kro?apatram fragment, note
>    - ?ippa?? note
>    - vivara?am commentary
>    - kha?ditapatram broken leaf
>    - p??ha? reading (as in, manuscript variant)
>    - p??h?ntaram (variant reading)
>
>
> Additions?  Corrections?
>
> ?
> --
> Professor Dominik Wujastyk <http://ualberta.academia.edu/DominikWujastyk>
> ?,?
>
> Singhmar Chair in Classical Indian Society and Polity
> ?,?
>
> Department of History and Classics
> <http://historyandclassics.ualberta.ca/>
> ?,?
> University of Alberta, Canada
> ?.?
>
> South Asia at the U of A:
>
> ?sas.ualberta.ca?
> ??
>
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
> committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
> unsubscribe)
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
> committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
> unsubscribe)
>


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From arlogriffiths at hotmail.com  Sun Feb 19 19:20:52 2017
From: arlogriffiths at hotmail.com (Arlo Griffiths)
Date: Sun, 19 Feb 17 19:20:52 +0000
Subject: [INDOLOGY] another pdf request: Mus 1939
Message-ID: <HE1PR0801MB177298AB2F7E0BE8747E025FA55F0@HE1PR0801MB1772.eurprd08.prod.outlook.com>

Dear colleagues,


Alas I did not meet with any success concerning Benveniste & Renou 1934.


Here's another item I am looking for:


Mus, Paul. 1939. La lumi?re sur les six voies: tableau de la transmigration bouddhique d?apr?s des sources sanskrites, p?li, tib?taines et chinoises en majeure partie in?dites. I, Introduction et critique des textes. Travaux et m?moires de l?Institut d?ethnologie 35. Paris: Institut d?ethnologie.

Would anyone happen to have this in pdf form?

Thank you.

Arlo Griffiths



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From arlogriffiths at hotmail.com  Tue Feb 21 06:09:10 2017
From: arlogriffiths at hotmail.com (Arlo Griffiths)
Date: Tue, 21 Feb 17 06:09:10 +0000
Subject: [INDOLOGY] another pdf request: Mus 1939
In-Reply-To: <HE1PR0801MB177298AB2F7E0BE8747E025FA55F0@HE1PR0801MB1772.eurprd08.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <HE1PR0801MB1772C15DBA1720DAF84DBB85A5510@HE1PR0801MB1772.eurprd08.prod.outlook.com>

Thanks to Wu Juan, Vincent Eltschinger and Birgit Kellner for their immediate responses.


Wu Juan has put his scan on archive.org: <https://archive.org/details/PaulMus1939LaLumiereSurLesSixVoies>.

Paul Mus 1939 La Lumi?re Sur Les Six Voies : Juan Wu : Free Download & Streaming : Internet Archive<https://archive.org/details/PaulMus1939LaLumiereSurLesSixVoies>
archive.org
Paul Mus 1939  La lumi?re sur les six voies



Arlo Griffiths



________________________________
From: INDOLOGY <indology-bounces at list.indology.info> on behalf of Arlo Griffiths via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info>
Sent: Sunday, February 19, 2017 7:20 PM
To: INDOLOGY
Subject: [INDOLOGY] another pdf request: Mus 1939


Dear colleagues,


Alas I did not meet with any success concerning Benveniste & Renou 1934.


Here's another item I am looking for:


Mus, Paul. 1939. La lumi?re sur les six voies: tableau de la transmigration bouddhique d?apr?s des sources sanskrites, p?li, tib?taines et chinoises en majeure partie in?dites. I, Introduction et critique des textes. Travaux et m?moires de l?Institut d?ethnologie 35. Paris: Institut d?ethnologie.

Would anyone happen to have this in pdf form?

Thank you.

Arlo Griffiths



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From gokhale.santosh at gmail.com  Tue Feb 21 12:35:16 2017
From: gokhale.santosh at gmail.com (Santosh Gokhale)
Date: Tue, 21 Feb 17 13:35:16 +0100
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Looking for PDF scans of two books...
Message-ID: <CAB_JScWrVGL2UDBHmgPzkC2GToBBetswn1-rnH+t28eOEqgOhA@mail.gmail.com>

Dear Colleagues,

I am looking for a PDF scan of two books:

1. Jagannatha Panditaraja by V.A. Ramaswami Sastri, published as Annamalai
Series No.8, 1942.

and

2. S M PAranjape's edition of the Bhaminivilasa, published by PM Sathaye
and Co, Pune, 1897.


Would be grateful if anyone could help me source these PDFs.


Kind regards,

Santosh Gokhale

Bonn, Germany


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From tccahill at loyno.edu  Tue Feb 21 21:49:08 2017
From: tccahill at loyno.edu (Tim Cahill)
Date: Tue, 21 Feb 17 15:49:08 -0600
Subject: =?utf-8?Q?[INDOLOGY]_pdf_of_Jagann=C4=81tha_Pa=E1=B9=87=E1=B8=8Ditar=C4=81ja?=
Message-ID: <58ACB5D4.2000405@loyno.edu>

I've uploaded a scan of this book at  archive.org

https://archive.org/details/JagannathaPandita1942

I read Paranjape's book in Poona about 15 years ago, either at the BORI 
or at Poona University. He did some fine text critical work on the 
Bh?min?vil?sa, and criticized the earlier edition of L. R. Vaidya 
(1887). In lieu of Paranjape, you might try the edition by H. D. Sharma 
(Poona, 1935).  Sharma's text follows Paranjape very closely, and he 
reproduces the variant readings that Paranjape had listed. In addition, 
Sharma has reproduced all of the additional verses that Paranjape had 
relegated to his appendix, even indicating the particular ms. or 
edition.  His notes often draw directly from the notes that accompany 
Paranjape. Fortunately, Sharma's edition is widely available.

best,
Tim Cahill
Loyola University New Orleans







From e.demichelis at ymail.com  Wed Feb 22 12:16:55 2017
From: e.demichelis at ymail.com (Elizabeth De Michelis)
Date: Wed, 22 Feb 17 12:16:55 +0000
Subject: =?utf-8?Q?[INDOLOGY]_Yoga_Studies_Summer_School_2017_-_Jagiellonian_University_-_Krak=C3=B3w,_Poland?=
In-Reply-To: <781493952.4673444.1487765815741.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <781493952.4673444.1487765815741@mail.yahoo.com>

Dear list members,

Following the excellent conference held in Krak?w last year (http://www.ydys.confer.uj.edu.pl/en_GB/about), our colleagues at the Jagiellonian University have organised a 2-week intensive Yoga Studies Summer School. This would be of great interest to any student (or indeed anyone) studying or researching any aspect of yoga, or with an interest in sanskrit yoga texts and traditions.

Please note the following deadline:

YSSS application submission: 31st March 2017

I transmit below some information from one of the organisers.

With best regards

Elizabeth De Michelis
tinyurl.com/EDM-profile

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Dear Colleagues,

it is with great pleasure that I invite you to the Yoga Studies Summer School that will take place between 21st July and 4th August 2017 at the Institute for the Study of Religions, Jagiellonian University, Krak?w, Poland.

The intensive programme will feature lectures by, among others, dr Michel Angot, prof. Gudrun B?hnemann, dr Jason Birch, dr hab. Ma?gorzata Sacha, and prof. Rafaelle Torella.

You can find more information on the course and some related downloadable documents at the official YSSS webpage:??? 

tinyurl.com/JU-2017-YSSS

Please feel free to share this information with your colleagues, students, and friends.

With best regards,
Matylda Cio?kosz
Institute for the Study of Religions
Jagiellonian University


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From drdhaval2785 at gmail.com  Thu Feb 23 15:07:26 2017
From: drdhaval2785 at gmail.com (dhaval patel)
Date: Thu, 23 Feb 17 20:37:26 +0530
Subject: =?utf-8?B?W0lORE9MT0dZXSBSZXF1ZXN0IGZvciDgpIngpKPgpL7gpKbgpL/gpLjgpYLgpKTgpY3gpLAgdW5pY29kZQ==?=
Message-ID: <CADSGPzUJT_-sguTbdkwe=_rro-Fqq0fd9-YxaAdVVXj12HtrWQ@mail.gmail.com>

Apologies for cross posting

Dear scholars,
I know this is a bit too much to ask.
By any chance anyone has some unicode version of ??????????s and/or their
commentaries readily available.

Thanks,

-- 
Dr. Dhaval Patel, I.A.S
Collector and District Magistrate, Anand
www.sanskritworld.in


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From Palaniappa at aol.com  Fri Feb 24 07:53:02 2017
From: Palaniappa at aol.com (Sudalaimuthu Palaniappan)
Date: Fri, 24 Feb 17 01:53:02 -0600
Subject: [INDOLOGY] INDUS CIVILISATION.
In-Reply-To: <A5183A68-4120-45E0-B4C6-AC4D5C413C63@ephe.sorbonne.fr>
Message-ID: <EE5B8A68-156C-4243-865D-0FE7AF67A495@aol.com>

There is an interview of Asko Parpola published recently in the Swarajya Magazine website. See https://swarajyamag.com/ideas/the-indus-jigsaw-can-it-be-pieced-together-at-least-partially <https://swarajyamag.com/ideas/the-indus-jigsaw-can-it-be-pieced-together-at-least-partially>. The interview is titled, ?The Indus jigsaw: Can it be pieced together, at least partially? For any reason, if you are unable to access it, here is a site where it was published earlier, http://www.sutrajournal.com/asko-parpola-on-the-roots-of-hinduism-by-vikram-zutshi <http://www.sutrajournal.com/asko-parpola-on-the-roots-of-hinduism-by-vikram-zutshi>.

Regards,
Palaniappan



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From mailmealakendudas at rediffmail.com  Fri Feb 24 08:35:12 2017
From: mailmealakendudas at rediffmail.com (alakendu das)
Date: Fri, 24 Feb 17 08:35:12 +0000
Subject: [INDOLOGY] VEDANTISTS AND BUDDHIST PHILOSOPHY
Message-ID: <20170224083512.32068.qmail@f4mail-235-96.rediffmail.com>



  In course of studying Adwaitya vedanta philosophy ,I am aware of a few sutras from the 2nd 

chapter of the  BrahmaSutra by Badarayana where the  Adwaitya philosophy has negated and refuted  

Buddhdist philosophy ( especially theories like ksanikaVada and Patticchya Samutpada) by Sutras 

like 'Asati Pratigya Aporodha JaugyaPaddyam (2/2/30),Anusmritescha etc. 



                                                             I would like to know if any other 

Vedanta text exists where Buddhist philosophy has been refuted likewise,although I must admit 

that I do  have a deep respect for Paticchya Samutpada ( Law of dependent origination) .





                                                              ALAKENDU DAS.


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From tubb at uchicago.edu  Fri Feb 24 17:32:26 2017
From: tubb at uchicago.edu (Gary Tubb)
Date: Fri, 24 Feb 17 11:32:26 -0600
Subject: =?utf-8?Q?[INDOLOGY]_pa=E1=B9=87=E1=B8=8Dita?=
Message-ID: <91611C66-E3DB-4B8E-AEBC-505C04809427@uchicago.edu>

A colleague has asked about the history of the term ?pa??ita? and in particular whether it is found used early on to refer to a persons who is clever or wise without necessarily being a learned person in a formal way.

-----
Gary Tubb
The University of Chicago







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From H.J.H.Tieken at hum.leidenuniv.nl  Fri Feb 24 17:59:57 2017
From: H.J.H.Tieken at hum.leidenuniv.nl (Tieken, H.J.H.)
Date: Fri, 24 Feb 17 17:59:57 +0000
Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_[INDOLOGY]_pa=E1=B9=87=E1=B8=8Dita?=
In-Reply-To: <91611C66-E3DB-4B8E-AEBC-505C04809427@uchicago.edu>
Message-ID: <EA8F815D502BC14097213C5D85BA1C652E088D81@SPMXM07.VUW.leidenuniv.nl>

Dear Gary,
In the Jaina canon there are various passages in which pa??ita-mara?a is contrasted with b?la-mara?a; see Schubring, Die Lehre der Jainas, p. 182. I am certain that in among other Buddhist texts the Suttanip?ta, similar passages with the b?la-pa??ita pair may be found.
Herman

Herman Tieken
Stationsweg 58
2515 BP Den Haag
The Netherlands
00 31 (0)70 2208127
website: hermantieken.com<http://hermantieken.com/>
________________________________
Van: INDOLOGY [indology-bounces at list.indology.info] namens Gary Tubb via INDOLOGY [indology at list.indology.info]
Verzonden: vrijdag 24 februari 2017 18:32
Aan: indology at list.indology.info
Onderwerp: [INDOLOGY] pa??ita

A colleague has asked about the history of the term ?pa??ita? and in particular whether it is found used early on to refer to a persons who is clever or wise without necessarily being a learned person in a formal way.

-----
Gary Tubb
The University of Chicago







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From uskokov at uchicago.edu  Fri Feb 24 18:06:20 2017
From: uskokov at uchicago.edu (Aleksandar Uskokov)
Date: Fri, 24 Feb 17 12:06:20 -0600
Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_[INDOLOGY]_pa=E1=B9=87=E1=B8=8Dita?=
In-Reply-To: <EA8F815D502BC14097213C5D85BA1C652E088D81@SPMXM07.VUW.leidenuniv.nl>
Message-ID: <CA+32jrHLn+BYH0+YDEuE1AigRVHP+PKgNHdWrFRbyyKSFmYqcg@mail.gmail.com>

The same pair (p???ityam/b?lyam) is there in the B?had-?ra?yaka 3.5.1.

Yours
Aleksandar

On Fri, Feb 24, 2017 at 11:59 AM, Tieken, H.J.H. via INDOLOGY <
indology at list.indology.info> wrote:

> Dear Gary,
> In the Jaina canon there are various passages in which pa??ita-mara?a is
> contrasted with b?la-mara?a; see Schubring, Die Lehre der Jainas, p. 182. I
> am certain that in among other Buddhist texts the Suttanip?ta, similar
> passages with the b?la-pa??ita pair may be found.
> Herman
>
> Herman Tieken
> Stationsweg 58
> 2515 BP Den Haag
> The Netherlands
> 00 31 (0)70 2208127 <+31%2070%20220%208127>
> website: hermantieken.com
> ------------------------------
> *Van:* INDOLOGY [indology-bounces at list.indology.info] namens Gary Tubb
> via INDOLOGY [indology at list.indology.info]
> *Verzonden:* vrijdag 24 februari 2017 18:32
> *Aan:* indology at list.indology.info
> *Onderwerp:* [INDOLOGY] pa??ita
>
> A colleague has asked about the history of the term ?pa??ita? and in
> particular whether it is found used early on to refer to a persons who is
> clever or wise without necessarily being a learned person in a formal way.
>
> -----
> Gary Tubb
> The University of Chicago
>
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
> committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
> unsubscribe)
>


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From mmdesh at umich.edu  Fri Feb 24 18:12:01 2017
From: mmdesh at umich.edu (Madhav Deshpande)
Date: Fri, 24 Feb 17 13:12:01 -0500
Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_[INDOLOGY]_pa=E1=B9=87=E1=B8=8Dita?=
In-Reply-To: <CA+32jrHLn+BYH0+YDEuE1AigRVHP+PKgNHdWrFRbyyKSFmYqcg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAB3-dzeucJYjEMWOWTEikPi_M8tsr5JkzcnRh4t6SOjqoxW7vg@mail.gmail.com>

Here are some relevant passages from Pali canonical texts:

S?ma??aphalasutta? - Buddhist Library Online
<http://buddhistlibraryonline.com/index.php/dighanikaya/silakkhandhavaggapali/samannaphala-sutta/13-samnnaphala>
buddhistlibraryonline.com/index.php/dighanikaya/.../samannaphala.../13-samnnaphal.
..
<https://www.google.com/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#>

   1.
   <http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:3LENFPvyvuMJ:buddhistlibraryonline.com/index.php/dighanikaya/silakkhandhavaggapali/samannaphala-sutta/13-samnnaphala+&cd=3&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us>

kacc?yano sa?gh? ceva ga?? ca ga??cariyo ca ??to yasass? titthakaro .... b?le
ca pa??ite ca sandh?vitv? sa?saritv? dukkhassanta? karissant?'ti. 169. ...
B?le ca pa??ite ca k?yassa bhed? ucchijjanti vinassanti, na honti para?
mara??'ti.

Madhav Deshpande
Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA

On Fri, Feb 24, 2017 at 1:06 PM, Aleksandar Uskokov via INDOLOGY <
indology at list.indology.info> wrote:

> The same pair (p???ityam/b?lyam) is there in the B?had-?ra?yaka 3.5.1.
>
> Yours
> Aleksandar
>
> On Fri, Feb 24, 2017 at 11:59 AM, Tieken, H.J.H. via INDOLOGY <
> indology at list.indology.info> wrote:
>
>> Dear Gary,
>> In the Jaina canon there are various passages in which pa??ita-mara?a is
>> contrasted with b?la-mara?a; see Schubring, Die Lehre der Jainas, p. 182. I
>> am certain that in among other Buddhist texts the Suttanip?ta, similar
>> passages with the b?la-pa??ita pair may be found.
>> Herman
>>
>> Herman Tieken
>> Stationsweg 58
>> 2515 BP Den Haag
>> The Netherlands
>> 00 31 (0)70 2208127 <+31%2070%20220%208127>
>> website: hermantieken.com
>> ------------------------------
>> *Van:* INDOLOGY [indology-bounces at list.indology.info] namens Gary Tubb
>> via INDOLOGY [indology at list.indology.info]
>> *Verzonden:* vrijdag 24 februari 2017 18:32
>> *Aan:* indology at list.indology.info
>> *Onderwerp:* [INDOLOGY] pa??ita
>>
>> A colleague has asked about the history of the term ?pa??ita? and in
>> particular whether it is found used early on to refer to a persons who is
>> clever or wise without necessarily being a learned person in a formal way.
>>
>> -----
>> Gary Tubb
>> The University of Chicago
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
>> committee)
>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
>> unsubscribe)
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
> committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
> unsubscribe)
>


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From edbryant at rci.rutgers.edu  Fri Feb 24 18:12:41 2017
From: edbryant at rci.rutgers.edu (edbryant at rci.rutgers.edu)
Date: Fri, 24 Feb 17 13:12:41 -0500
Subject: =?utf-8?B?UmU6IFtJTkRPTE9HWV0gcGHDocK5wofDocK4wo1pdGE=?=
In-Reply-To: <91611C66-E3DB-4B8E-AEBC-505C04809427@uchicago.edu>
Message-ID: <dc83a819c37f4d799deaf237f5b0d6cc.squirrel@webmail.rci.rutgers.edu>

> A colleague has asked about the history of the term ???pa??????ita??? and
> in particular whether it is found used early on to refer to a persons who
> is clever or wise without necessarily being a learned person in a formal
> way.

Gary,

See Gita, II.11 & V.18.

With fond memories of Sanskrit at CU.

Edwin Bryant.






>
> -----
> Gary Tubb
> The University of Chicago
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
> committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
> unsubscribe)






From edbryant at rci.rutgers.edu  Fri Feb 24 18:19:07 2017
From: edbryant at rci.rutgers.edu (edbryant at rci.rutgers.edu)
Date: Fri, 24 Feb 17 13:19:07 -0500
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Mahabharat verse on unreliability of the intellect
In-Reply-To: <91611C66-E3DB-4B8E-AEBC-505C04809427@uchicago.edu>
Message-ID: <223a621197fe59665d05ea0e4fae6d23.squirrel@webmail.rci.rutgers.edu>


Friends,

Does anyone know the origin of this verse in the MhBh:

"Logic is unreliable, the Srutis express different viewpoints, and there
is no RSi who does not have a different philosophy from other sages. The
essence of dharma is hidden in the innermost recesses of the hearts of
enlightened souls; one should therefore follow the path traversed by an
enlightened soul"

This oft-quoted verse appears in the various renditions of the text in the
section where YudhiSThira answers the questions of the yakSa in the forest
by the lake, but I can't seem to find it in the BORI edition - which might
of course be the answer to the dilemma, but i ask just in case.

Many thanks.  Edwin Bryant.





From mmdesh at umich.edu  Fri Feb 24 18:20:50 2017
From: mmdesh at umich.edu (Madhav Deshpande)
Date: Fri, 24 Feb 17 13:20:50 -0500
Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_[INDOLOGY]_pa=E1=B9=87=E1=B8=8Dita?=
In-Reply-To: <CAB3-dzeucJYjEMWOWTEikPi_M8tsr5JkzcnRh4t6SOjqoxW7vg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAB3-dzdxjGsyPnzTpYTwLQqxWOnAhhuxWBF_joXNiYzc6s+JZg@mail.gmail.com>

The word pa??itaka is often used in Pali in sarcastic ways to mean the
opposit:

Amba??hasutta? - Buddhist Library Online
<http://buddhistlibraryonline.org/digha-nikaya/silakkhandhavaggapali/dn3-ambattha-sutta/14-amba-hasutta>
buddhistlibraryonline.org ? ... ? Silakkhandhavaggapali ? DN3 Ambattha Sutta
Jun 6, 2014 - Eva? vutte, br?hma?o pokkharas?ti amba??ha? m??ava? etadavoca
? ''aho vata re amh?ka? pa??itaka [pa??itak?], aho vata re ...

Madhav Deshpande
Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA

On Fri, Feb 24, 2017 at 1:12 PM, Madhav Deshpande <mmdesh at umich.edu> wrote:

> Here are some relevant passages from Pali canonical texts:
>
> S?ma??aphalasutta? - Buddhist Library Online
> <http://buddhistlibraryonline.com/index.php/dighanikaya/silakkhandhavaggapali/samannaphala-sutta/13-samnnaphala>
> buddhistlibraryonline.com/index.php/dighanikaya/.../
> samannaphala.../13-samnnaphal...
>
> <https://www.google.com/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#>
>
>    1.
>    <http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:3LENFPvyvuMJ:buddhistlibraryonline.com/index.php/dighanikaya/silakkhandhavaggapali/samannaphala-sutta/13-samnnaphala+&cd=3&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us>
>
> kacc?yano sa?gh? ceva ga?? ca ga??cariyo ca ??to yasass? titthakaro .... b?le
> ca pa??ite ca sandh?vitv? sa?saritv? dukkhassanta? karissant?'ti. 169.
> ... B?le ca pa??ite ca k?yassa bhed? ucchijjanti vinassanti, na honti para?
> mara??'ti.
>
> Madhav Deshpande
> Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA
>
> On Fri, Feb 24, 2017 at 1:06 PM, Aleksandar Uskokov via INDOLOGY <
> indology at list.indology.info> wrote:
>
>> The same pair (p???ityam/b?lyam) is there in the B?had-?ra?yaka 3.5.1.
>>
>> Yours
>> Aleksandar
>>
>> On Fri, Feb 24, 2017 at 11:59 AM, Tieken, H.J.H. via INDOLOGY <
>> indology at list.indology.info> wrote:
>>
>>> Dear Gary,
>>> In the Jaina canon there are various passages in which pa??ita-mara?a is
>>> contrasted with b?la-mara?a; see Schubring, Die Lehre der Jainas, p. 182. I
>>> am certain that in among other Buddhist texts the Suttanip?ta, similar
>>> passages with the b?la-pa??ita pair may be found.
>>> Herman
>>>
>>> Herman Tieken
>>> Stationsweg 58
>>> 2515 BP Den Haag
>>> The Netherlands
>>> 00 31 (0)70 2208127 <+31%2070%20220%208127>
>>> website: hermantieken.com
>>> ------------------------------
>>> *Van:* INDOLOGY [indology-bounces at list.indology.info] namens Gary Tubb
>>> via INDOLOGY [indology at list.indology.info]
>>> *Verzonden:* vrijdag 24 februari 2017 18:32
>>> *Aan:* indology at list.indology.info
>>> *Onderwerp:* [INDOLOGY] pa??ita
>>>
>>> A colleague has asked about the history of the term ?pa??ita? and in
>>> particular whether it is found used early on to refer to a persons who is
>>> clever or wise without necessarily being a learned person in a formal way.
>>>
>>> -----
>>> Gary Tubb
>>> The University of Chicago
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
>>> committee)
>>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options
>>> or unsubscribe)
>>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
>> committee)
>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
>> unsubscribe)
>>
>
>


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From mmdesh at umich.edu  Fri Feb 24 18:24:41 2017
From: mmdesh at umich.edu (Madhav Deshpande)
Date: Fri, 24 Feb 17 13:24:41 -0500
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Mahabharat verse on unreliability of the intellect
In-Reply-To: <223a621197fe59665d05ea0e4fae6d23.squirrel@webmail.rci.rutgers.edu>
Message-ID: <CAB3-dzd-appLSi3tE0_5Nr4W1rdOT+-Vegh1BJLqauDBtSN9rw@mail.gmail.com>

This source seems to give a reference to the Vanaparvan of the MBH (but I
have no idea what edition of the MBH they are referring to):

Chant and Be Happy: The Power of Mantra Meditation
<https://books.google.com/books?id=M_dhBAAAQBAJ&pg=PT46&lpg=PT46&dq=tarko%27prati%E1%B9%A3%E1%B9%ADha%E1%B8%A5&source=bl&ots=h3J4tMAJ7_&sig=QG1R8wmBr53-fRJACubGeeClSEs&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwi40f_rrKnSAhXMyoMKHT0PDooQ6AEIKDAE>
https://books.google.com/books?isbn=9171497021
Based on the teachings of His Divine Grace A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami
Prabhupada
<https://www.google.com/search?espv=2&biw=1280&bih=571&tbm=bks&q=inauthor:%22Based+on+the+teachings+of+His+Divine+Grace+A.+C.+Bhaktivedanta+Swami+Prabhupada%22&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwi40f_rrKnSAhXMyoMKHT0PDooQ9AgIKTAE>
-
1984 - ?Philosophy
As stated inthe Mah?bh?rata (Vana-p?rva 313.117): tarko 'prati??ha? ?rutayo
vibhinn? n?s?v ??ir yasya mata?na bhinnam dharmasyatattva? nihita? ...

Madhav Deshpande
Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA

On Fri, Feb 24, 2017 at 1:19 PM, Edwin F. Bryant via INDOLOGY <
indology at list.indology.info> wrote:

>
> Friends,
>
> Does anyone know the origin of this verse in the MhBh:
>
> "Logic is unreliable, the Srutis express different viewpoints, and there
> is no RSi who does not have a different philosophy from other sages. The
> essence of dharma is hidden in the innermost recesses of the hearts of
> enlightened souls; one should therefore follow the path traversed by an
> enlightened soul"
>
> This oft-quoted verse appears in the various renditions of the text in the
> section where YudhiSThira answers the questions of the yakSa in the forest
> by the lake, but I can't seem to find it in the BORI edition - which might
> of course be the answer to the dilemma, but i ask just in case.
>
> Many thanks.  Edwin Bryant.
>
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
> committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
> unsubscribe)
>


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From nagarajpaturi at gmail.com  Fri Feb 24 18:59:36 2017
From: nagarajpaturi at gmail.com (Nagaraj Paturi)
Date: Sat, 25 Feb 17 00:29:36 +0530
Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_[INDOLOGY]_pa=E1=B9=87=E1=B8=8Dita?=
In-Reply-To: <CAB3-dzdxjGsyPnzTpYTwLQqxWOnAhhuxWBF_joXNiYzc6s+JZg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAJGj9eb5daMSV1oJHf+PBFg70X7GAaTWOWNVbiunQewG3FcXpg@mail.gmail.com>

Baala - Pandita pair is found in

??????????? ???????????? ????????? ? ???????? ?

????????????? ?????????????????? ???? ? 5\-4?

On Fri, Feb 24, 2017 at 11:50 PM, Madhav Deshpande via INDOLOGY <
indology at list.indology.info> wrote:

> The word pa??itaka is often used in Pali in sarcastic ways to mean the
> opposit:
>
> Amba??hasutta? - Buddhist Library Online
> <http://buddhistlibraryonline.org/digha-nikaya/silakkhandhavaggapali/dn3-ambattha-sutta/14-amba-hasutta>
> buddhistlibraryonline.org ? ... ? Silakkhandhavaggapali ? DN3 Ambattha
> Sutta
> Jun 6, 2014 - Eva? vutte, br?hma?o pokkharas?ti amba??ha? m??ava?
> etadavoca ? ''aho vata re amh?ka? pa??itaka [pa??itak?], aho vata re ...
>
> Madhav Deshpande
> Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA
>
> On Fri, Feb 24, 2017 at 1:12 PM, Madhav Deshpande <mmdesh at umich.edu>
> wrote:
>
>> Here are some relevant passages from Pali canonical texts:
>>
>> S?ma??aphalasutta? - Buddhist Library Online
>> <http://buddhistlibraryonline.com/index.php/dighanikaya/silakkhandhavaggapali/samannaphala-sutta/13-samnnaphala>
>> buddhistlibraryonline.com/index.php/dighanikaya/.../samannap
>> hala.../13-samnnaphal...
>>
>> <https://www.google.com/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#>
>>
>>    1.
>>    <http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:3LENFPvyvuMJ:buddhistlibraryonline.com/index.php/dighanikaya/silakkhandhavaggapali/samannaphala-sutta/13-samnnaphala+&cd=3&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us>
>>
>> kacc?yano sa?gh? ceva ga?? ca ga??cariyo ca ??to yasass? titthakaro .... b?le
>> ca pa??ite ca sandh?vitv? sa?saritv? dukkhassanta? karissant?'ti. 169.
>> ... B?le ca pa??ite ca k?yassa bhed? ucchijjanti vinassanti, na honti para?
>> mara??'ti.
>>
>> Madhav Deshpande
>> Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA
>>
>> On Fri, Feb 24, 2017 at 1:06 PM, Aleksandar Uskokov via INDOLOGY <
>> indology at list.indology.info> wrote:
>>
>>> The same pair (p???ityam/b?lyam) is there in the B?had-?ra?yaka 3.5.1.
>>>
>>> Yours
>>> Aleksandar
>>>
>>> On Fri, Feb 24, 2017 at 11:59 AM, Tieken, H.J.H. via INDOLOGY <
>>> indology at list.indology.info> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Dear Gary,
>>>> In the Jaina canon there are various passages in which pa??ita-mara?a
>>>> is contrasted with b?la-mara?a; see Schubring, Die Lehre der Jainas, p.
>>>> 182. I am certain that in among other Buddhist texts the Suttanip?ta,
>>>> similar passages with the b?la-pa??ita pair may be found.
>>>> Herman
>>>>
>>>> Herman Tieken
>>>> Stationsweg 58
>>>> 2515 BP Den Haag
>>>> The Netherlands
>>>> 00 31 (0)70 2208127 <+31%2070%20220%208127>
>>>> website: hermantieken.com
>>>> ------------------------------
>>>> *Van:* INDOLOGY [indology-bounces at list.indology.info] namens Gary Tubb
>>>> via INDOLOGY [indology at list.indology.info]
>>>> *Verzonden:* vrijdag 24 februari 2017 18:32
>>>> *Aan:* indology at list.indology.info
>>>> *Onderwerp:* [INDOLOGY] pa??ita
>>>>
>>>> A colleague has asked about the history of the term ?pa??ita? and in
>>>> particular whether it is found used early on to refer to a persons who is
>>>> clever or wise without necessarily being a learned person in a formal way.
>>>>
>>>> -----
>>>> Gary Tubb
>>>> The University of Chicago
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>>>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>>>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
>>>> committee)
>>>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options
>>>> or unsubscribe)
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
>>> committee)
>>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options
>>> or unsubscribe)
>>>
>>
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
> committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
> unsubscribe)
>



-- 
Nagaraj Paturi

Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.

Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies

FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of  Liberal Education,

(Pune, Maharashtra, INDIA )


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From isabelle.ratie at gmail.com  Fri Feb 24 19:08:37 2017
From: isabelle.ratie at gmail.com (Isabelle Ratie)
Date: Fri, 24 Feb 17 20:08:37 +0100
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Lectureship (Sanskrit Language and Indian Civilisation), Sorbonne Nouvelle University
Message-ID: <CANFkKBbtO3hT2Ls4PTiuS4LFGeuvtKm4Gm6tXrW+=NpM25Qe9Q@mail.gmail.com>

Dear List Members,

This is to inform you that the Sorbonne Nouvelle University (Paris 3) is
inviting applications for a *lectureship *("ma?trise de conf?rences,"
tenure track) in *Sanskrit Language and Indian Civilisation*. Applications
must be submitted online before the 30th of March, 4 p.m. (Paris time) at

https://recrutement.univ-paris3.fr/recrutementECcandidat/

See below for more information.

With all best wishes,
Isabelle Rati?
-- 
Isabelle Rati?
Professor of Sanskrit Language and Literatures
Sorbonne Nouvelle (University of Paris 3)
http://www.iran-inde.cnrs.fr/members/permanent-members/ratie
-isabelle.html?lang=en

*Job profile: *

The University is seeking to appoint as a Lecturer a specialist of Sanskrit
and Indian civilisation from September 2017. The successful candidate *must
be able to teach in French* and his/her areas of expertise are expected not
to overlap with the current teaching staff's in the D?partement d'Etudes
Arabes, H?bra?ques, Indiennes et Iraniennes (http://www.univ-paris3.fr/dep
artement-etudes-arabes-hebraiques-indiennes-et-iraniennes-22042.kjsp). The
appointee will teach at the following levels within the curriculum of
Indian studies at the Sorbonne Nouvelle: Indian Civilisation for beginners;
Sanskrit Texts Readings, Religion and Iconography at BA and MA levels
("Licence" and "Master 1"). He/she will also contribute to the promotion
and dissemination of knowledge on Indian civilisation by teaching courses
outside the Indology curriculum (in particular courses pertaining to the
program "Connaissance de l'Orient" that introduces students from other
disciplines to the Indian culture and religions). As a Lecturer he/she will
supervise MA dissertations in the fields covered by the job profile. He/she
will be affiliated to the Research Team ("Unit? Mixte de Recherche") UMR
7528 "Mondes iranien et indien" (http://www.iran-inde.cnrs.fr/) and is
expected to engage in research on Sanskrit and related areas of his/her
expertise at an international level.

*Online application*

*1.* Candidates should first register and sign an application form
("d?claration de candidature") on the following site (the registration page
can be accessed by clicking on "Acc?s recrutement"):

https://www.galaxie.enseignementsup-recherche.gouv.fr/ensup/cand_recrutement_enseignants_chercheurs.htm

For more information see
https://galaxie.enseignementsup-recherche.gouv.fr/documentat
ion/web/galaxie-can

*2.* The application file (including the signed "d?claration de
candidature") must be  submitted online at https://recrutement.univ-pa
ris3.fr/recrutementECcandidat/. *Only online applications will be
considered.*

For the list of required documents see article 10 in
https://www.legifrance.gouv.fr/affichTexte.do?cidTexte=JORF
TEXT000030337354&fastPos=1&fastReqId=1358245093&categorieLie
n=cid&oldAction=rechTexte

As for candidates who do not hold a valid "qualification aux fonctions de
ma?tre de conf?rences" by the French National Council of Universities (CNU,
Conseil National des Universit?s), their applications will be reviewed by
the University's Academic Board (Conseil Academique) who will determine
whether they can be submitted to the selection committee.

Applicants seeking further information about the electronic application,
the required documents, etc. are invited to write to
candidatures at univ-paris3.fr.


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From nagarajpaturi at gmail.com  Fri Feb 24 19:22:12 2017
From: nagarajpaturi at gmail.com (Nagaraj Paturi)
Date: Sat, 25 Feb 17 00:52:12 +0530
Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_[INDOLOGY]_pa=E1=B9=87=E1=B8=8Dita?=
In-Reply-To: <CAJGj9eb5daMSV1oJHf+PBFg70X7GAaTWOWNVbiunQewG3FcXpg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAJGj9eb6qOe+e51D=9VdAvh0Y=YB06efcjpwmcZkbU5X17QJSw@mail.gmail.com>

Bhasa's Pratimaa naaTakam  in Sixth Anka has the following line where
paanDityam is used not in the sense of scholarship or quality of being
learned:

????? ?????? ????????? ??????????? ? ?? ?????????? ????????? ?




On Sat, Feb 25, 2017 at 12:29 AM, Nagaraj Paturi <nagarajpaturi at gmail.com>
wrote:

> Baala - Pandita pair is found in
>
> ??????????? ???????????? ????????? ? ???????? ?
>
> ????????????? ?????????????????? ???? ? 5\-4?
>
> On Fri, Feb 24, 2017 at 11:50 PM, Madhav Deshpande via INDOLOGY <
> indology at list.indology.info> wrote:
>
>> The word pa??itaka is often used in Pali in sarcastic ways to mean the
>> opposit:
>>
>> Amba??hasutta? - Buddhist Library Online
>> <http://buddhistlibraryonline.org/digha-nikaya/silakkhandhavaggapali/dn3-ambattha-sutta/14-amba-hasutta>
>> buddhistlibraryonline.org ? ... ? Silakkhandhavaggapali ? DN3 Ambattha
>> Sutta
>> Jun 6, 2014 - Eva? vutte, br?hma?o pokkharas?ti amba??ha? m??ava?
>> etadavoca ? ''aho vata re amh?ka? pa??itaka [pa??itak?], aho vata re ...
>>
>> Madhav Deshpande
>> Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA
>>
>> On Fri, Feb 24, 2017 at 1:12 PM, Madhav Deshpande <mmdesh at umich.edu>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Here are some relevant passages from Pali canonical texts:
>>>
>>> S?ma??aphalasutta? - Buddhist Library Online
>>> <http://buddhistlibraryonline.com/index.php/dighanikaya/silakkhandhavaggapali/samannaphala-sutta/13-samnnaphala>
>>> buddhistlibraryonline.com/index.php/dighanikaya/.../samannap
>>> hala.../13-samnnaphal...
>>>
>>> <https://www.google.com/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#>
>>>
>>>    1.
>>>    <http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:3LENFPvyvuMJ:buddhistlibraryonline.com/index.php/dighanikaya/silakkhandhavaggapali/samannaphala-sutta/13-samnnaphala+&cd=3&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us>
>>>
>>> kacc?yano sa?gh? ceva ga?? ca ga??cariyo ca ??to yasass? titthakaro .... b?le
>>> ca pa??ite ca sandh?vitv? sa?saritv? dukkhassanta? karissant?'ti. 169.
>>> ... B?le ca pa??ite ca k?yassa bhed? ucchijjanti vinassanti, na honti para?
>>> mara??'ti.
>>>
>>> Madhav Deshpande
>>> Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA
>>>
>>> On Fri, Feb 24, 2017 at 1:06 PM, Aleksandar Uskokov via INDOLOGY <
>>> indology at list.indology.info> wrote:
>>>
>>>> The same pair (p???ityam/b?lyam) is there in the B?had-?ra?yaka 3.5.1.
>>>>
>>>> Yours
>>>> Aleksandar
>>>>
>>>> On Fri, Feb 24, 2017 at 11:59 AM, Tieken, H.J.H. via INDOLOGY <
>>>> indology at list.indology.info> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Dear Gary,
>>>>> In the Jaina canon there are various passages in which pa??ita-mara?a
>>>>> is contrasted with b?la-mara?a; see Schubring, Die Lehre der Jainas, p.
>>>>> 182. I am certain that in among other Buddhist texts the Suttanip?ta,
>>>>> similar passages with the b?la-pa??ita pair may be found.
>>>>> Herman
>>>>>
>>>>> Herman Tieken
>>>>> Stationsweg 58
>>>>> 2515 BP Den Haag
>>>>> The Netherlands
>>>>> 00 31 (0)70 2208127 <+31%2070%20220%208127>
>>>>> website: hermantieken.com
>>>>> ------------------------------
>>>>> *Van:* INDOLOGY [indology-bounces at list.indology.info] namens Gary
>>>>> Tubb via INDOLOGY [indology at list.indology.info]
>>>>> *Verzonden:* vrijdag 24 februari 2017 18:32
>>>>> *Aan:* indology at list.indology.info
>>>>> *Onderwerp:* [INDOLOGY] pa??ita
>>>>>
>>>>> A colleague has asked about the history of the term ?pa??ita? and in
>>>>> particular whether it is found used early on to refer to a persons who is
>>>>> clever or wise without necessarily being a learned person in a formal way.
>>>>>
>>>>> -----
>>>>> Gary Tubb
>>>>> The University of Chicago
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>>>>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>>>>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
>>>>> committee)
>>>>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options
>>>>> or unsubscribe)
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>>>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>>>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
>>>> committee)
>>>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options
>>>> or unsubscribe)
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
>> committee)
>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
>> unsubscribe)
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Nagaraj Paturi
>
> Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.
>
> Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies
>
> FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of  Liberal Education,
>
> (Pune, Maharashtra, INDIA )
>
>
>
>



-- 
Nagaraj Paturi

Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.

Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies

FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of  Liberal Education,

(Pune, Maharashtra, INDIA )


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From ashok.aklujkar at gmail.com  Sat Feb 25 01:25:03 2017
From: ashok.aklujkar at gmail.com (Ashok Aklujkar)
Date: Fri, 24 Feb 17 17:25:03 -0800
Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_[INDOLOGY]_pa=E1=B9=87=E1=B8=8Dita?=
In-Reply-To: <91611C66-E3DB-4B8E-AEBC-505C04809427@uchicago.edu>
Message-ID: <CB9110CF-5CA3-4662-B469-E9B630EC2549@gmail.com>


> On Feb 24, 2017, at 9:32 AM, Gary Tubb via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info <mailto:indology at list.indology.info>> wrote:
> 
> A colleague has asked about the history of the term ?pa??ita? 

Much relevant material can be found in: The Pandit. Traditional Sanskrit Scholarship in India. Festschrift Parameshvara Aithal.  (ed) Michaels, Axel. New Delhi: Manohar. South Asian Studies series.

I have contributed an article to this volume which may be considered directly relevant to your query: 
	"Pa??ita and pandits in history.?   

The second article in the same volume which indirectly explains how the uses noted so far on this thread become possible is: "The pandits from a pi??a-brahm???a point of view.?

a.a.    
 


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From gthomgt at gmail.com  Sat Feb 25 03:07:32 2017
From: gthomgt at gmail.com (George Thompson)
Date: Fri, 24 Feb 17 22:07:32 -0500
Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_[INDOLOGY]_pa=E1=B9=87=E1=B8=8Dita?=
In-Reply-To: <CB9110CF-5CA3-4662-B469-E9B630EC2549@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAP1Y1zvd5gFc4w247pBsc2kv-VsbPbzVG9qCzoT76MFheuYLrQ@mail.gmail.com>

Dear Ashok,

Thank you very much for reminding us of this book.  I am going to go to my
local bookstore to order it tomorrow.

Best wishes,

George

On Fri, Feb 24, 2017 at 8:25 PM, Ashok Aklujkar via INDOLOGY <
indology at list.indology.info> wrote:

>
> On Feb 24, 2017, at 9:32 AM, Gary Tubb via INDOLOGY <
> indology at list.indology.info> wrote:
>
> A colleague has asked about the history of the term ?pa??ita?
>
>
> Much relevant material can be found in: The Pandit. Traditional Sanskrit
> Scholarship in India. Festschrift Parameshvara Aithal.  (ed) Michaels,
> Axel. New Delhi: Manohar. South Asian Studies series.
>
> I have contributed an article to this volume which may be considered
> directly relevant to your query:
> "Pa??ita and pandits in history.?
>
> The second article in the same volume which indirectly explains how the
> uses noted so far on this thread become possible is: "The pandits from a
> pi??a-brahm???a point of view.?
>
> a.a.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
> committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
> unsubscribe)
>


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From nagarajpaturi at gmail.com  Sat Feb 25 04:29:46 2017
From: nagarajpaturi at gmail.com (Nagaraj Paturi)
Date: Sat, 25 Feb 17 09:59:46 +0530
Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_[INDOLOGY]_pa=E1=B9=87=E1=B8=8Dita?=
In-Reply-To: <CAP1Y1zvd5gFc4w247pBsc2kv-VsbPbzVG9qCzoT76MFheuYLrQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAJGj9eZcQ+thOfux_2peOYyCDJft174iuD=CLjhf=++kbYS30A@mail.gmail.com>

???????? is used in three different meanings in the following three verses
in Gita:


???????????????? ??????????? ???????? ? 2\-11?


?????????????????? ????????? ??? ??????? ?

???? ??? ??????? ? ???????? ????????? ? 5\-18?


???????????? ???????????? ????????? ? ???????? ?

????????????? ?????????????????? ??????? ? 5\-4?


In the first, Arjuna is being called Pandita and he is being told that it
is not appropriate for Arjuna to lament.


But in the second, Pandita is almost equivalent of sthitaprajna, a person
with the highest level of spiritual attainment as per the book.


In the third, it is in contrast with baalaah.

On Sat, Feb 25, 2017 at 8:37 AM, George Thompson via INDOLOGY <
indology at list.indology.info> wrote:

> Dear Ashok,
>
> Thank you very much for reminding us of this book.  I am going to go to my
> local bookstore to order it tomorrow.
>
> Best wishes,
>
> George
>
> On Fri, Feb 24, 2017 at 8:25 PM, Ashok Aklujkar via INDOLOGY <
> indology at list.indology.info> wrote:
>
>>
>> On Feb 24, 2017, at 9:32 AM, Gary Tubb via INDOLOGY <
>> indology at list.indology.info> wrote:
>>
>> A colleague has asked about the history of the term ?pa??ita?
>>
>>
>> Much relevant material can be found in: The Pandit. Traditional Sanskrit
>> Scholarship in India. Festschrift Parameshvara Aithal.  (ed) Michaels,
>> Axel. New Delhi: Manohar. South Asian Studies series.
>>
>> I have contributed an article to this volume which may be considered
>> directly relevant to your query:
>> "Pa??ita and pandits in history.?
>>
>> The second article in the same volume which indirectly explains how the
>> uses noted so far on this thread become possible is: "The pandits from a
>> pi??a-brahm???a point of view.?
>>
>> a.a.
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
>> committee)
>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
>> unsubscribe)
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
> committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
> unsubscribe)
>



-- 
Nagaraj Paturi

Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.

Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies

FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of  Liberal Education,

(Pune, Maharashtra, INDIA )


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From drdhaval2785 at gmail.com  Sat Feb 25 14:02:50 2017
From: drdhaval2785 at gmail.com (dhaval patel)
Date: Sat, 25 Feb 17 19:32:50 +0530
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Request for unicode version of tattvabodhinI 6.2
Message-ID: <CADSGPzVHEzVmGEbR6piUFpmk4TLTKU9TvV=Kko5d96rfHhuLJA@mail.gmail.com>

https://github.com/aupasana/ashtadhyayi/tree/master/tattvabodhini
has tattvabodhinI commentary for all pAdas except 6.2

It seems that the source from which the data was derived lacked 6.2, as can
be seen from discussion at https://github.com/aupasana/ashtadhyayi/issues/2.

I would be grateful if some scholar whose copy has this missing 6.2 pAda
can send it across.

Best regards,


-- 
Dr. Dhaval Patel, I.A.S
Collector and District Magistrate, Anand
www.sanskritworld.in


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From wujastyk at gmail.com  Sun Feb 26 00:06:17 2017
From: wujastyk at gmail.com (Dominik Wujastyk)
Date: Sat, 25 Feb 17 17:06:17 -0700
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Mahabharat verse on unreliability of the intellect
In-Reply-To: <223a621197fe59665d05ea0e4fae6d23.squirrel@webmail.rci.rutgers.edu>
Message-ID: <CAKdt-Cf9HF7=EeVNr4-xDVqwyDHc-bOsO+kKPfZ01XpVD-yztw@mail.gmail.com>

The searchable Mbh text in the SARIT library is the Southern Recension
(Kumbakonam).  The verse you're after, identified by Madhav, is here
<http://sarit.indology.info/exist/apps/sarit/works/search.html?query=prati%E1%B9%A3%E1%B9%ADha%E1%B8%A5+%C5%9Brutayo+&field=text&query-scripts=all&index=ngram&tei-target=tei-text&work-authors=all&query-scope=narrow&bool=new>
.

?
--
Professor Dominik Wujastyk <http://ualberta.academia.edu/DominikWujastyk>
?,?

Singhmar Chair in Classical Indian Society and Polity
?,?

Department of History and Classics <http://historyandclassics.ualberta.ca/>
?,?
University of Alberta, Canada
?.?

South Asia at the U of A:

?sas.ualberta.ca?
??


On 24 February 2017 at 11:19, Edwin F. Bryant via INDOLOGY <
indology at list.indology.info> wrote:

>
> Friends,
>
> Does anyone know the origin of this verse in the MhBh:
>
> "Logic is unreliable, the Srutis express different viewpoints, and there
> is no RSi who does not have a different philosophy from other sages. The
> essence of dharma is hidden in the innermost recesses of the hearts of
> enlightened souls; one should therefore follow the path traversed by an
> enlightened soul"
>
> This oft-quoted verse appears in the various renditions of the text in the
> section where YudhiSThira answers the questions of the yakSa in the forest
> by the lake, but I can't seem to find it in the BORI edition - which might
> of course be the answer to the dilemma, but i ask just in case.
>
> Many thanks.  Edwin Bryant.
>
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
> committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
> unsubscribe)
>


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From alanus1216 at yahoo.com  Mon Feb 27 15:06:18 2017
From: alanus1216 at yahoo.com (Allen Thrasher)
Date: Mon, 27 Feb 17 15:06:18 +0000
Subject: [INDOLOGY] First female sovereign
In-Reply-To: <50C58FED-D5A2-43C7-BA7D-D25478855067@wwu.edu>
Message-ID: <460190587.1853949.1488207978705@mail.yahoo.com>

This is I know very late in this conversation, but female regents were standard in Rajput states, as I learned for the first time a few years ago at a symposium at the Library of Congress on Indian royal women. ?If the heir was a boy, his mother became the regent while one of her brothers from her native state would come to assist her. ?Were similar systems found in India earlier?
This raises an interesting issue with comparative implications. ?As we know, some European policies allowed female inheritance of a throne and some did not. ?E.g. France had the Salic late but the usual regent of a boy king was his mother, and the usual regent while the king was out of his kingdom was his wife. ?Why in such cases were women considered competent in terms of skill, willpower, etc. to rule a state but not to inherit one? Because of the direct or symbolic association of rule with active, in-person miltary leadership in the field?
Allen
Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android 
 
  On Fri, Nov 4, 2016 at 6:59 PM, Michael Slouber<Michael.Slouber at wwu.edu> wrote:   Thanks to all who responded about India?s first female sovereign. ?I summarize the responses regarding queens who ruled in India before or contemporary to Razia Sultana:?
(counting regents)

1. N?g?nik?, 2nd century BC Satavahana empire

2. Prabh?vat? Gupta in the 4th--5th centuries, V?k??aka dynasty3. Kulaprabh?vat?, 5th century Cambodia (outside of the Indian subcontinent, but good to know)

(not counting regents)

1. Didd?, 10th?11th centuries Kashmir

2. Rudram? Dev?, 13th Century, K?kat?ya Dynasty

I also appreciate the references to?O. von Hinueber?s book, which may refer to others.
??
Michael Slouber
Assistant Professor of South Asia
Department of Liberal Studies
Western Washington University

  


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From emstern at verizon.net  Tue Feb 28 07:33:57 2017
From: emstern at verizon.net (Elliot Stern)
Date: Tue, 28 Feb 17 02:33:57 -0500
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Mahabharat verse on unreliability of the intellect
In-Reply-To: <CAB3-dzd-appLSi3tE0_5Nr4W1rdOT+-Vegh1BJLqauDBtSN9rw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <04C57403-242E-4C66-A03D-30B1E84AC56A@verizon.net>

Found in the Gretil text of the BORI ?ra?yakaparvan:

03,297.061d at 032_0065	tarko 'prati??ha? ?rutayo vibhinn?
03,297.061d at 032_0066	naiko ??ir yasya mata? pram??am
03,297.061d at 032_0067	dharmasya tattva? nihita? guh?y??
03,297.061d at 032_0068	mah?jano yena gata? sa panth??


Elliot M. Stern
552 South 48th Street
Philadelphia, PA 19143-2029
United States of America
telephone: 215-747-6204
mobile: 267-240-8418
emstern at verizon.net

> On 24 Feb  2017, at 13:24, Madhav Deshpande via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info> wrote:
> 
> This source seems to give a reference to the Vanaparvan of the MBH (but I have no idea what edition of the MBH they are referring to):
> 
> Chant and Be Happy: The Power of Mantra Meditation <https://books.google.com/books?id=M_dhBAAAQBAJ&pg=PT46&lpg=PT46&dq=tarko%27prati%E1%B9%A3%E1%B9%ADha%E1%B8%A5&source=bl&ots=h3J4tMAJ7_&sig=QG1R8wmBr53-fRJACubGeeClSEs&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwi40f_rrKnSAhXMyoMKHT0PDooQ6AEIKDAE>
> https://books.google.com/books?isbn=9171497021 <https://books.google.com/books?isbn=9171497021>
> Based on the teachings of His Divine Grace A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada <https://www.google.com/search?espv=2&biw=1280&bih=571&tbm=bks&q=inauthor:%22Based+on+the+teachings+of+His+Divine+Grace+A.+C.+Bhaktivedanta+Swami+Prabhupada%22&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwi40f_rrKnSAhXMyoMKHT0PDooQ9AgIKTAE> - 1984 - ?Philosophy
> As stated inthe Mah?bh?rata (Vana-p?rva 313.117): tarko 'prati??ha? ?rutayo vibhinn? n?s?v ??ir yasya mata?na bhinnam dharmasyatattva? nihita? ...
> 
> Madhav Deshpande
> Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA
> 
> On Fri, Feb 24, 2017 at 1:19 PM, Edwin F. Bryant via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info <mailto:indology at list.indology.info>> wrote:
> 
> Friends,
> 
> Does anyone know the origin of this verse in the MhBh:
> 
> "Logic is unreliable, the Srutis express different viewpoints, and there
> is no RSi who does not have a different philosophy from other sages. The
> essence of dharma is hidden in the innermost recesses of the hearts of
> enlightened souls; one should therefore follow the path traversed by an
> enlightened soul"
> 
> This oft-quoted verse appears in the various renditions of the text in the
> section where YudhiSThira answers the questions of the yakSa in the forest
> by the lake, but I can't seem to find it in the BORI edition - which might
> of course be the answer to the dilemma, but i ask just in case.
> 
> Many thanks.  Edwin Bryant.
> 
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info <mailto:INDOLOGY at list.indology.info>
> indology-owner at list.indology.info <mailto:indology-owner at list.indology.info> (messages to the list's managing committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info <http://listinfo.indology.info/> (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe)
> 
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe)



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From martingansten at gmail.com  Tue Feb 28 17:12:59 2017
From: martingansten at gmail.com (Martin Gansten)
Date: Tue, 28 Feb 17 18:12:59 +0100
Subject: =?utf-8?Q?[INDOLOGY]_A_disease_called_j=C4=81pyat=C4=81=3F?=
Message-ID: <6656071c-bd22-84cb-5a2f-ebe2541b11a5@gmail.com>

I once again turn to the vaidyavids on this list in hope of 
enlightenment. Balabhadra in his 17th-century /H?yanaratna/ writes of an 
astrological configuration:

/atra teja?si?hena samarasi?hena ca ?anid???i? vin? r?k??dirog?? prokt?? 
| ?anid???au tu j?pyat? n?ma kutsito roga ukta? | /

'On this [matter], Teja?si?ha and Samarasi?ha state that [even] without 
the aspect of Saturn, there are diseases such as dryness, but if Saturn 
aspects, there is said to be the vile disease called /j?pyat?/.'

Does anyone know what condition this might be? I have so far found only 
one other occurrence of /j?pyat?/, in Var?hamihira's /Yogay?tr?/ 
(10.57), which is not very illuminating:

/dak?i?e ?ubham at?va ?obhana? p?pam apy ativir?pam anyata? |//
//j?pyat? bhavati tadviparyaye vistaro 'nyamunibhi? prak?rtita? ||//
/
The alternative word division /j?pyat?n?m akutsito /seems likewise 
unpromising.

Martin Gansten



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