[INDOLOGY] Gita 13.6
Shyam Ranganathan
shyamr at yorku.ca
Thu Aug 24 16:14:07 UTC 2017
Dear Howard, and all
My two cents: Yoga/Bhakti is a procedural theory of ethics. Procedural
theories prioritize the right (action, procedure, means) over the good
(outcome, end, manifest thing). The most procedural theory we have in
the Western tradition is what the Gita calls "Karma Yoga,"
---deontology. According to this there are good things to do (duties)
and they are justified by way of procedural considerations, not the ends.
Yoga/Bhakti in contrast defines the thing to be done by a procedural
ideal---the Lord---and the good as the perfection of this practice.
Hence, we shouldn't strive for the good, nor should we justify actions
by their outcomes. We should rather understand proper action as an
approximation to the Lord which defines the right, and the good
automatically follows as a perfection of this practice. In effect, we
instantiate Lordliness as we perfect the practice of devotion to the Lord.
As the Lord is a procedural ideal, that is only manifest when we make
perfect our devotion to it, it is in abstraction always unmanifest. But
it can also become manifest too as a matter of its expression in a world
devoted to It.
I have written about this in a few articles of late. Here's one:
"Bhagavad Gītā: The Dialectic of Four Moral Theories
<https://philpapers.org/rec/SHYBGT>"
Related to this, and more specifically on Yoga/Bhakti, is:
"Patañjali’s Yoga: Universal Ethics as the Formal Cause of Autonomy
<https://philpapers.org/rec/RANPYU-2>"
Hope this helps, and best wishes,
Shyam
Shyam Ranganathan
Department of Philosophy
York University, Toronto
On 24/08/2017 11:50 AM, HR via INDOLOGY wrote:
> Thank you Naturaj-ji.
>
> My question essentially is: what exactly is the unmanifest aspect of
> the creation?
>
>
>> On Aug 24, 2017, at 3:53 AM, Nagaraj Paturi <nagarajpaturi at gmail.com
>> <mailto:nagarajpaturi at gmail.com>> wrote:
>>
>> Dear HR-ji,
>>
>> If your question is, " Are the 'Avyakta' of 13.6 and 'Avyakta' of
>> 8.18. one and the same?",
>>
>> then the answer is 'No' and 'Yes'
>>
>> No, because the 'avyakta' of 13.6 is the unmanifest aspect /element
>> of the creation during the vyakta phase of the creation.
>>
>> Whereas the 'avyakta' in 8.18 is the avyakta phase of the creation.
>>
>> Yes, because in 8.18 too 'avyakta is an aspect/dimension. In the
>> avyakta phase, only avyakta aspect/dimension remains. All elements
>> like Mahabhutani of 13.6, which exist in a vyakta aspect/dimension of
>> them in the vyakta phase , change into their avyakta aspect/dimension
>> during the avyakta phase.
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Aug 24, 2017 at 8:47 AM, Nagaraj Paturi
>> <nagarajpaturi at gmail.com <mailto:nagarajpaturi at gmail.com>> wrote:
>>
>> Dear HR-ji,
>>
>> The two axiomatic principles of Bh G (Bh G time 'Hinduism' ) are :
>>
>> nāsatō vidyatē bhāvah nābhāvō vidyatē satah. Bh G 2-16 (Existence
>> does not come from non-existence and from existence non-existence
>> does not come; i.e.,Nothing is created from nothing. Everything
>> is created from something already in existence..Anything already
>> in existence does not get destroyed)
>>
>> and
>>
>> (in fact as a corollary of this),
>>
>> Time/creation is cyclic.
>>
>> Based on these two , all the vyakta does not get destroyed at the
>> end of a creation /time cycle. Then what happens to the vyakta at
>> that stage? It withdraws into its avyakta form (because nābhāvō
>> vidyatē satah) . What happens later? The new cycle of
>> time/creation begins. What does that mean? All that is withdrawn
>> into avyakta comes back into vyakta form. (because nāsatō vidyatē
>> bhāvah)
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Aug 24, 2017 at 4:26 AM, HR via INDOLOGY
>> <indology at list.indology.info
>> <mailto:indology at list.indology.info>> wrote:
>>
>> Thank you, Nagaraj. I am still trying to grasp more clearly
>> the sense of avyakta in verses like 8.18 —
>> avyaktād vyaktayah sarvāḥ prabhavanty ahar-āgame
>>
>> How would you define the avyakta as the source of manifest
>> individuals (vyaktayaḥ)?
>>
>> Howard
>>
>>> On Aug 22, 2017, at 7:17 PM, Nagaraj Paturi
>>> <nagarajpaturi at gmail.com <mailto:nagarajpaturi at gmail.com>>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Dear HR-ji,
>>>
>>> noun not adjective.
>>>
>>> Yes, that is what I was about to point out.
>>>
>>> In 13.6, it is a part of categories into which the "knowable
>>> field" as opposed to the "field - knower" is divided.
>>>
>>> महाभूतान्यहन्कारो बुद्धिरव्यक्तमेव च ।
>>>
>>> इन्द्रियाणि दशैकन् च प~न्च चेन्द्रियगोचराः ॥ 13\-6॥
>>>
>>> Similar is its use in 8-18, 8-20
>>>
>>> अव्यक्ताद् व्यक्तयः सर्वाः प्रभवन्त्यहरागमे ।
>>>
>>> रात्र्यागमे प्रलीयन्ते तत्रैवाव्यक्तसन्घके ॥ 8\-18॥
>>>
>>>
>>> परस्तस्मात्तु भावो अन्यो अव्यक्तो अव्यक्तात्सनातनः ।
>>>
>>>
>>> यः स सर्वेषु भूतेषु नश्यत्सु न विनश्यति ॥ 8\-20॥
>>>
>>>
>>> The words element and dimension used by you are very apt.
>>>
>>>
>>> Interestingly it is both a dimension and element.
>>>
>>>
>>> Just for analogy, space and time in contemporary Physics are
>>> both dimensions and components. (Post Einstein, they are
>>> components of a continuum.)
>>>
>>>
>>> mahābhūtāni, indriyagoocarāh are part of the vyakta
>>> component. ahankārah, buddhih, indriyāṇi are parts of
>>> neither parts of the vyakta nor of the avykta.
>>>
>>>
>>> This vyakta, avyakta division has its foundations right from
>>> the rigvedic expressions such as
>>>
>>>
>>> pādōsya viśvābhūtāni tripādasyāmr̥tam divi.
>>>
>>>
>>> vēdāhamētam puruśam mahāntam ādityavarṇam tamasah parastāt.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wed, Aug 23, 2017 at 6:38 AM, HR via INDOLOGY
>>> <indology at list.indology.info
>>> <mailto:indology at list.indology.info>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Thank you. Actually, avyakta is often used as a
>>> straightforward adjective, as in Bg 2.25. My interest
>>> here is when avyakta is used as a noun, as in Bg 12.1,
>>> or even more to the point, 8.18,20.
>>>
>>> Howard
>>>
>>>> On Aug 22, 2017, at 4:52 AM, alakendu das
>>>> <mailmealakendudas at rediffmail.com
>>>> <mailto:mailmealakendudas at rediffmail.com>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Scholar,
>>>> The best way to comprehend Avykta or "The
>>>> unmanifested"is available in Gita itself.2.26(or may be
>>>> 27,)says- A chheddyam,Adahhyam,Akleddya,Ashoshya eba
>>>> cha ,Nitya Sarvagata Sthanu Chalayam ,Sanatana
>>>> ........Avyaktayam,Achintyam,Avikaryam ucchyate.The
>>>> concept of Avyakta in our Philosophy is
>>>> dimensionless,although it
>>>> is the sole EXISTENCE. The fact that it is
>>>> dimensionless, can be accessed from this Upanishadic
>>>> qoute- Ananu,Asthulam,Arhasham,A
>>>> ..dirgham....etc.," Avyaktam' is the Sumnum Bonum of
>>>> our Vedanta Philosophy.
>>>> Alakendu Ds
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Sent from RediffmailNG on Android
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> From: HR via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info
>>>> <mailto:indology at list.indology.info>>
>>>> Sent: Tue, 22 Aug 2017 08:23:45 GMT+0530
>>>> To: Indology List <indology at list.indology.info
>>>> <mailto:indology at list.indology.info>>
>>>> Subject: [INDOLOGY] Gita 13.6
>>>>
>>>> Dear Scholars,
>>>>
>>>> I would appreciate insights on how we might
>>>> understand the use of ‘avyakta,’ the ‘unmanifest’ in
>>>> the Gita 13.6 and elsewhere as a type of element or
>>>> dimension of this world.
>>>>
>>>> Thanks,
>>>> Howard
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>>>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>>>> <mailto:INDOLOGY at list.indology.info>
>>>> indology-owner at list.indology.info
>>>> <mailto:indology-owner at list.indology.info> (messages to
>>>> the list's managing committee)
>>>> http://listinfo.indology.info
>>>> <http://listinfo.indology.info/> (where you can change
>>>> your list options or unsubscribe)
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>>> <mailto:INDOLOGY at list.indology.info>
>>> indology-owner at list.indology.info
>>> <mailto:indology-owner at list.indology.info> (messages to
>>> the list's managing committee)
>>> http://listinfo.indology.info
>>> <http://listinfo.indology.info/> (where you can change
>>> your list options or unsubscribe)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Nagaraj Paturi
>>> Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.
>>>
>>>
>>> BoS, MIT School of Vedic Sciences, Pune, Maharashtra
>>>
>>> BoS, Chinmaya Vishwavidyapeeth, Veliyanad, Kerala
>>>
>>> Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies
>>> FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of Liberal
>>> Education,
>>> (Pune, Maharashtra, INDIA )
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info <mailto:INDOLOGY at list.indology.info>
>> indology-owner at list.indology.info
>> <mailto:indology-owner at list.indology.info> (messages to the
>> list's managing committee)
>> http://listinfo.indology.info
>> <http://listinfo.indology.info/> (where you can change your
>> list options or unsubscribe)
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Nagaraj Paturi
>> Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.
>>
>>
>> BoS, MIT School of Vedic Sciences, Pune, Maharashtra
>>
>> BoS, Chinmaya Vishwavidyapeeth, Veliyanad, Kerala
>>
>> Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies
>> FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of Liberal Education,
>> (Pune, Maharashtra, INDIA )
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Nagaraj Paturi
>> Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.
>>
>>
>> BoS, MIT School of Vedic Sciences, Pune, Maharashtra
>>
>> BoS, Chinmaya Vishwavidyapeeth, Veliyanad, Kerala
>>
>> Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies
>> FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of Liberal Education,
>> (Pune, Maharashtra, INDIA )
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe)
--
ShyamRanganathan
MA,MA, PhD
Department of Philosophy
York University, Toronto
shyam-ranganathan.info <http://shyam-ranganathan.info/>
/The Bloomsbury Research Handbook of Indian Ethics
<http://www.bloomsbury.com/uk/the-bloomsbury-research-handbook-of-indian-ethics-9781472587770/>/
/Patañjali`s Yoga Sūtras
<http://penguin.co.in/book/classics/patanjalis-yoga-sutra/>/ (Translation,
Edition and Commentary)
/Translating Evaluative Discourse: The Semantics of Thick and Thin
Concepts <https://philpapers.org/rec/SHYTED>/
Full List, Publications <https://philpapers.org/s/shyam%20ranganathan>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <https://list.indology.info/pipermail/indology/attachments/20170824/1ca05af3/attachment.htm>
More information about the INDOLOGY
mailing list