[INDOLOGY] bhagwa dvaj

Nagaraj Paturi nagarajpaturi at gmail.com
Mon Aug 7 10:55:33 UTC 2017


It is interesting to read your words,

"With that in mind, my remit is to suspend judgement and disbelief, and
*try* to privilege the emic perspective."

Not related to the topic of the fantasies being discussed,

Do you think Indology centred around /rooted in historical critical method
and privileging emic perspectives that are neither historical nor critical
can go hand in hand?

........................................

That apart, coming to the present topic of your study of these fantasies,

Are you sure that you suspended your judgement?

.........................................

Historians of 'Hinduism', particularly of modern 'Hinduism', can very
easily note that the messianic, proselytising features of 'Hinduism',
particularly their manifestation in the 'Hindu' organizational activities
outside India started only during modern period and in response/reaction to
or imitation of Christian evangelical activities and not  as earnest or
frivolous post-colonial, counter-hegemonic assertions against the privilege
of Eurocentric perspectives. 'post-colonial, counter-hegemonic assertions
against the privilege of Eurocentric perspectives' belong to the academic
arena or the arena of idea generations or idea conflicts. These  messianic,
proselytising features of 'Hinduism' are manifest in the activist or action
arena.

Within the global wellness industry, Yoga and Ayurveda are not  in a
position to give even a weak competition to Allopathic medicine where the
roll model of the messianic, proselytising groups of 'Hinduism', their
competitor , i.e., the Christian missionary evangelism is well rooted,
widespread and strongly supported by the worldwide rich Christian
'charity'.

There are discussions on George Bush's role in such activities here
<http://www.frontline.in/static/html/fl2204/stories/20050225000506400.htm>,
here
<https://www.google.co.in/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwj18LqY78TVAhXDo48KHfNRCN8QFggnMAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fhiebertglobalcenter.org%2Fblog%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2013%2F03%2FReading-31-Tehelka-the-Peoples-Paper.pdf&usg=AFQjCNFXtWUlM8bzlKHbGYLy_9ZHiFnjzw>
, here
<https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/the-bush-government-and-christian-conversions-in-india.15060/>
 and so on.

There have been numerous studies on how the well meaning followers of
certain contemporary internationally mainstream academic methods
unwittingly fall into the trap of Christian ideas. Some people may argue
that this is part of global Christian imperialist project.

Islam, the other religion which has been in competition with Christianity
from centuries in messianic proselytising activities did not use any
wellness industry method for its spread.

So, if at all there is any wellness industry method that is being used by
the messianic proselytising groups of Hinduism, the roll model or
comparable phenomenon is the use of Allopathic medicine by Christian
missionary evangelism.

Communists had the dream of World Communist Empire in the name of World
Communist Society. That is now shattered by the collapse of USSR and other
communist regimes.

Some ISKCON initiated young students of me used to tell me around 25 years
ago that their movement can become a or the world religion some day. The
same persons today laugh at their own young day fantasies.

Christianity and Islam were the only two mutual competitors in this aspect
in the religions sector. They are now getting newer and newer competitors
at least in dreaming for their world kingdoms. Competition from others is
the limiting factor for each of these dreamers including the 'Hindu' ones.
That is what makes their fantasies remain fantasies.





On Mon, Aug 7, 2017 at 1:43 PM, patrick mccartney <psdmccartney at gmail.com>
wrote:

> Dear Nagaraj,
>
> It's a good question. Please let me try and explain.
>
> I'm an anthropologist, primarily, who is interested in the politics of
> imagination and the commodification of desire. I am using a dialogic
> utopian method to explore what the world *could be* for various groups.
> With that in mind, my remit is to suspend judgement and disbelief, and
> *try* to privilege the emic perspective.
>
> I focus on the global wellness industry, of which yoga and ayurveda are a
> part. More specifically, I analyse the marketing rhetoric of the global
> yoga industry. I do this to understand many things, however, one thing in
> particular that I am increasingly interested in is the tacit links, via the
> Sanskrit episteme, between the ethno-nationalism of the Indian state and
> the desires of global yoga practitioners, which are overwhelmingly to apply
> yoga, as a technology, to help re-enchant disenchanted worlds. It is
> through the cultural capital of yoga and prestige of Sanskrit that hindutva
> ideology is normalised and legitimised.
>
> There are many ways in which global yoga practitioners come to unwittingly
> support the banal nationalism of hindutva. Two principal ways are through
> the soft hindutva of various yoga gurus,
> <https://lareviewofbooks.org/article/the-soft-nationalism-of-amma-indias-hugging-saint/>
> and the fantasies of people like David Frawley, Stephen Knapp and PN Oak.
> This hindutva-inspired world view permeates to deep layers of global yoga.
> Furthermore, the logic of the guru-disciple relationship relies on the
> cultivation of affect. People are taught how to feel, and not to think
> critically. This further creates opportunities for hindutva logic to be
> infused into the guru's rhetoric, normalised, and consumed by the global
> yoga practitioner.
>
> Of course, all nations are metaphysical entities, and exist within social
> imaginary landscapes. Are you suggesting that we should ignore the
> fantasies of hindutvavādins as mere pie in the sky machinations, and not
> take them seriously? Or should we, instead, see them as earnest
> post-colonial, counter-hegemonic assertions against the privilege of
> Eurocentric perspectives?  While it seems unlikely that as Praveen Togadia
> and others assert, that the world will become Hindu/Vedic by 2030-ish, and
> that Sanskrit will replace English, these post-colonial assertions mean
> something to the people saying them, especially when they are found not
> only in the echo chambers of Hindu supremacists, but also within the global
> imagination of yoga practitioners.
>
> Therefore, how do these seemingly disparate worlds intersect? This is
> particularly pertinent given that a seeming majority of global yoga
> practitioners consider the legitimate yogic disposition to be apolitical,
> which is another way in which the theo-politics of hindutva gains
> popularity, simply because people do not want to think about yoga AND
> politics, or that yoga might be involved in larger political operations.
>
> My fieldwork amongst global yoga practitioners leads me to assert that
> there are many who eagerly await a Vedic-inspired utopian ramrajya, but do
> not, however, really understand the implications, as what we are more or
> less discussing is the aspiration to create a global Vedic caliphate, which
> is what Ramdev asserts is the only answer to stopping ISIS. These aren't
> fringe fantasies, as the key note speakers who attended this conference
> <http://www.vedicindiafoundation.org/speakers.html> attest.
>
> Therefore, in a nutshell, this is why I give credence to such fantasies.
>
> Best,
>
> Patrick
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Aug 7, 2017 3:25 PM, "Nagaraj Paturi" <nagarajpaturi at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Patrick,
>>
>> Why do you give credence to all such fantasies and spend serious research
>> time to work on them?
>>
>> All beliefs that someone, some religion, some nation, some ideology can
>> rule the whole world are fantasies.
>>
>> ""The Bhagwa flag has existed and guided the Vedic society right from
>> its origin. It has inspired and has been honored by the Vedic Saints and
>> heroes. In ancient times, the warriors used to put on saffron robes and go
>> to the battlefield. If they are victorious, they will rule and if
>> vanquished, they might die on the battlefield and thus go to heaven--such
>> was the motivating force for the heroes.""
>>
>> is a fantasy about the past.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Aug 3, 2017 at 9:38 AM, patrick mccartney via INDOLOGY <
>> indology at list.indology.info> wrote:
>>
>>> Dear Friends,
>>>
>>> I'm conducting a geneological study of the *bhagwa dvaj *flag, and
>>> would appreciate any assistance in this matter.
>>>
>>> I'm reading about the significance of the flag. As I'm sure many of you
>>> are aware, it is the flag of choice for the RSS. They consider it their
>>> 'guru', and have only recently hoisted the tricolour flag at their Nagpur
>>> headquarters, after several decades of saying they never would. However, it
>>> also happens to sit upon just about every Hindu temple I've ever seen. I'm
>>> curious, then, if this could mean that every temple/ashram supports the
>>> RSS, or that the RSS has simply co-opted the flag, and interpolated their
>>> own political imagination onto the symbology inherent in the flag.
>>> Either way, it is conveniently confusing, as it happens to also
>>> represent sanātana dharma, which is equated with Hinduism. But, then, I
>>> would argue that sanātana dharmic ideology rests at the core of the
>>> hindutva project. Therefore, I'm quite confused about the semiotic
>>> entanglement of this one sign, and its multiple semantic valencies.
>>>
>>> I ask these questions because I figure that, if I have trouble
>>> disambiguating these things, what is the chance of success for the recently
>>> minted 200-hr yoga teacher graduate, or casual yoga practitioner?
>>>
>>> I'm writing
>>> <http://www.politicaltheology.com/blog/yoga-practitioners-and-the-unspoken-global-aspirations-of-indian-ethno-nationalism-patrick-mccartney/> these
>>> days about the entanglement of global yoga practitioners and their
>>> potentially unwitting, tacit support of hindutva ideology. As an example,
>>> Stephen Knapp, a prominent ISKCON-wallah, and head of the VFA (vedic
>>> friends association), whom some of you might be familiar with,
>>> controversially suggests the following:
>>> <http://www.stephen-knapp.com/basic_points_about_vedic_culture_hinduism.htm>
>>> "The Bhagwa flag has existed and guided the Vedic society right from its
>>> origin. It has inspired and has been honored by the Vedic Saints and
>>> heroes. In ancient times, the warriors used to put on saffron robes and go
>>> to the battlefield. If they are victorious, they will rule and if
>>> vanquished, they might die on the battlefield and thus go to heaven--such
>>> was the motivating force for the heroes."
>>>
>>> I find this appeal to a (martial) tradition somewhat perplexing. Aside
>>> from what a lot of Knapp says, this is possibly less controversial;
>>> however, for the uncritical mind, who is expected to unquestionably accept
>>> the truth claims of certain gurus, this type of triction (truth+fiction),
>>> is a prime example of how global yoga practitioners potentially come to
>>> unknowingly support a hindutva world view, which, as Ramdev explains,
>>> <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WG7k42cg2W8> seeks to create a
>>> hindutva alternative to an ISIS caliphate. This, by the way, is his
>>> solution. By creating a global, Vedic theocratic state we can apparently
>>> stop a global Salafist caliphate from succeeding...
>>>
>>> Knapp has not responded to my question regarding the textual, historical
>>> or archaeological source of his claims. I'm wondering, then, if anyone is
>>> able to point me towards the earliest mention, perhaps, of the bhagwa dvaj,
>>> anywhere, in a primary, or secondary, text.
>>>
>>> Thank you.
>>>
>>>
>>> All the best,
>>>
>>> Patrick McCartney, PhD
>>> Fellow
>>> School of Culture, History & Language
>>> College of the Asia-Pacific
>>> The Australian National University
>>> Canberra, Australia, 0200
>>>
>>>
>>> Skype - psdmccartney
>>> Phone + Whatsapp:  +61 414 954 748 <0414%20954%20748>
>>> Twitter - @psdmccartney
>>>
>>>
>>> *bodhapūrvam calema* ;-)
>>>
>>> academia <https://anu-au.academia.edu/patrickmccartney>
>>>
>>>    -
>>>
>>> Linkedin
>>> <https://www.linkedin.com/profile/view?id=241756978&trk=nav_responsive_tab_profile>
>>>
>>> Edanz
>>> <https://www.edanzediting.com/expert/anthropology/patrick-mccartney>
>>>
>>> Conversation
>>> <https://theconversation.com/profiles/patrick-mccartney-phd-136054>
>>>
>>> YogaTrade
>>> <https://yogatrade.com/resume/dr-dts7idm-anthropologist-phd-shanti-mandir-authenticity-economy-and-emotion-in-a-yoga-ashram-visiting-fellow-australian-national-university/>
>>>
>>> Modern Yoga Research <http://www.modernyogaresearch.org/events/>
>>>
>>> #yogabodyANU2016 symposium <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X80KxW2bb0w>
>>>
>>> <http://chl.anu.edu.au/news-events/events/658/yoga-and-body-past-and-present-symposium?#tab>
>>>
>>> Yoga Fundamentalism - Part 1
>>> <http://www.politicaltheology.com/blog/yoga-practitioners-and-the-unspoken-global-aspirations-of-indian-ethno-nationalism-patrick-mccartney/>
>>>
>>>
>>> <http://www.politicaltheology.com/blog/is-the-global-prestige-of-sanskrit-aiding-and-abetting-hindu-nationalists-and-supremacists-patrick-mccartney_/>
>>> Yoga Fundamentalism - Part 2
>>> <http://www.politicaltheology.com/blog/is-the-global-prestige-of-sanskrit-aiding-and-abetting-hindu-nationalists-and-supremacists-patrick-mccartney_/>
>>>
>>>
>>> <http://oicd.net/ge/index.php/politics-beyond-yoga-mat-yoga-fundamentalism-vedic-way-life/>
>>> Politics beyond the yoga mat
>>> <http://oicd.net/ge/index.php/politics-beyond-yoga-mat-yoga-fundamentalism-vedic-way-life/>
>>>
>>> The Sanitising Power of Spoken Sanskrit
>>> <https://www.academia.edu/6274287/The_sanitising_power_of_spoken_Sanskrit>
>>>
>>> Imagining Sanskrit Land
>>> <https://www.academia.edu/32694583/IMAGINING_SANSKRIT_LAND_ARENA_MAGAZINE_ARTICLE>
>>>
>>> Ep1 - Imagining Sanskrit Land <https://youtu.be/jMi7tkPBbJ4>
>>>
>>> Ep 2 - Total-am <https://youtu.be/7tAp8m9RHPU>
>>>
>>> Ep 3 - Jalam ≠ Chillum <https://youtu.be/cLZeuCT_mwQ>
>>>
>>> Ep 4 - It's Time to get Married
>>> <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_B3un7aHEAc>
>>>
>>> A Day in our Ashram
>>> <https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=ek+din+hamaare+ashram+mein>
>>>
>>> OzHarvest <https://youtu.be/r1E-XWWBmvw>
>>>
>>> Stop animation short film of Shakuntala
>>> <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LVqBD_2P4Pg>
>>>
>>> Forced to Clean Human Waste <http://youtu.be/y3XfjbwqC_g>
>>>
>>> One of my favourite song
>>> <http://trinityroots.bandcamp.com/track/all-we-be>s
>>>
>>> The Philosophy of Cycling
>>> <http://elibrary.com.ng/UploadFiles/file0_2221.pdf>
>>>
>>> Plato's Cave
>>> <http://www.openculture.com/2011/07/orson_welles_narrates_platos_cave_allegory.html>
>>>
>>> Endangered Languages MOOC
>>> <https://www.edx.org/course/language-revival-securing-future-adelaidex-lang101x>
>>>
>>> Blackfella-Whitefella <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M_DHwp5vYBI>
>>>
>>> Triction <http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=triction>
>>>
>>>
>>>
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>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Nagaraj Paturi
>>
>> Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.
>>
>>
>> BoS, MIT School of Vedic Sciences, Pune, Maharashtra
>>
>> BoS, Chinmaya Vishwavidyapeeth, Veliyanad, Kerala
>>
>> Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies
>>
>> FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of  Liberal Education,
>>
>> (Pune, Maharashtra, INDIA )
>>
>>
>>
>>
>


-- 
Nagaraj Paturi

Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.


BoS, MIT School of Vedic Sciences, Pune, Maharashtra

BoS, Chinmaya Vishwavidyapeeth, Veliyanad, Kerala

Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies

FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of  Liberal Education,

(Pune, Maharashtra, INDIA )


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