From jpo at austin.utexas.edu  Tue Aug  1 12:16:04 2017
From: jpo at austin.utexas.edu (Olivelle, J P)
Date: Tue, 01 Aug 17 12:16:04 +0000
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Digitization of Rare books at the BORI
In-Reply-To: <CAB3-dzf9UpiZJPVAx4K7MQJfHDhXeH4xWBv8DUb57xfGsky1KQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <F9638594-74CD-4A3B-B438-A4F5BE60637D@austin.utexas.edu>

I was at BORI last week and visited the digitization office with Prof. Bahulkar. They have three impressive digitizing machines, and as I understood it, they will make the final product available online. Right now it is in an intranet available only in-house. They are planning on digitizing their rare books library and the manuscript library. I am not sure whether the latter will be available to all comers on the internet, or will be protected by password and payment.

Patrick




On Aug 1, 2017, at 1:18 AM, Madhav Deshpande via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info<mailto:indology at list.indology.info>> wrote:

I agree with you.

On Mon, Jul 31, 2017 at 8:58 AM Dominik Wujastyk <wujastyk at gmail.com<mailto:wujastyk at gmail.com>> wrote:
Dear Madhav and friends,

Thanks for the great news about digitization plans at BORI.

There's a phenomenon I've begun to be aware of over the last few years.  An institution or person in India announces a digitization plan.  Then some digitization actually happens.  But then, the resulting files are hoarded and not made available to scholars.  This has happened with MS collections in Kerala, Mysore and elsewhere.  There are exceptions, of course.

What motives and ideas are behind this behaviour?

"Digitization" is a kind of magic word.  It is a semiotic sign for participation in a progressive, modern world.  It's what you do if you don't know what to do.  And "digitization" is also a sign for possession:  if a manuscript is digitized it has been grasped or gained in some psychological sense.   A couple of decades ago there was a similar aura surrounding "making a database." It was a self-standing good, and sent out a semiotic sign of ownership and power.  "I have a database of the Vedas," was an assertion of power and status independent of the instrumentalization of the database.

So perhaps it's reasonably easy to account for a desire to digitize something.  (NB I'm not talking about rational reasons, but about irrational motives.)

Then, why refuse to share the resulting digital files?  Perhaps for all the old reasons, connected with ideas about loss of mana (in the Austronesian sense), fears about making a dreadful mistake, and residual anger resulting from constructions of colonial oppression.

Excuse my ramblings!

Dominik



?
--
Professor Dominik Wujastyk<http://ualberta.academia.edu/DominikWujastyk>
?,?

Singhmar Chair in Classical Indian Society and Polity
?,?

Department of History and Classics<http://historyandclassics.ualberta.ca/>
?,?
University of Alberta, Canada
?.?

South Asia at the U of A:

?sas.ualberta.ca?<http://sas.ualberta.ca/>
??


On 28 July 2017 at 16:37, Madhav Deshpande via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info<mailto:indology at list.indology.info>> wrote:
Here is an exciting news report about digitization of rare books at the BORI:

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/pune/digitalisation-of-rare-books-at-bori/articleshow/59502406.cms

I hope the digitization projects succeed and the digitized books become openly available to scholars worldwide.

Congratulations to Shrikant Bahulkar and his team at the BORI.

Madhav Deshpande

_______________________________________________
INDOLOGY mailing list
INDOLOGY at list.indology.info<mailto:INDOLOGY at list.indology.info>
indology-owner at list.indology.info<mailto:indology-owner at list.indology.info> (messages to the list's managing committee)
http://listinfo.indology.info<http://listinfo.indology.info/> (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe)

_______________________________________________
INDOLOGY mailing list
INDOLOGY at list.indology.info<mailto:INDOLOGY at list.indology.info>
indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee)
http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe)



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From james.hartzell at gmail.com  Tue Aug  1 12:41:54 2017
From: james.hartzell at gmail.com (James Hartzell)
Date: Tue, 01 Aug 17 14:41:54 +0200
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Digitization of Rare books at the BORI
In-Reply-To: <F9638594-74CD-4A3B-B438-A4F5BE60637D@austin.utexas.edu>
Message-ID: <CAKA8X41vcnN5Yh33TSHoBLCdfi2J2p8__p=_EmWQzmbhtBx8fw@mail.gmail.com>

Great news, thanks Patrick.

On Tue, Aug 1, 2017 at 2:16 PM, Olivelle, J P via INDOLOGY <
indology at list.indology.info> wrote:

> I was at BORI last week and visited the digitization office with Prof.
> Bahulkar. They have three impressive digitizing machines, and as I
> understood it, they will make the final product available online. Right now
> it is in an intranet available only in-house. They are planning on
> digitizing their rare books library and the manuscript library. I am not
> sure whether the latter will be available to all comers on the internet, or
> will be protected by password and payment.
>
> Patrick
>
>
>
>
> On Aug 1, 2017, at 1:18 AM, Madhav Deshpande via INDOLOGY <
> indology at list.indology.info> wrote:
>
> I agree with you.
>
> On Mon, Jul 31, 2017 at 8:58 AM Dominik Wujastyk <wujastyk at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Dear Madhav and friends,
>>
>> Thanks for the great news about digitization plans at BORI.
>>
>> There's a phenomenon I've begun to be aware of over the last few years.
>> An institution or person in India announces a digitization plan.  Then some
>> digitization actually happens.  But then, the resulting files are hoarded
>> and not made available to scholars.  This has happened with MS collections
>> in Kerala, Mysore and elsewhere.  There are exceptions, of course.
>>
>> What motives and ideas are behind this behaviour?
>>
>> "Digitization" is a kind of magic word.  It is a semiotic sign for
>> participation in a progressive, modern world.  It's what you do if you
>> don't know what to do.  And "digitization" is also a sign for possession:
>>  if a manuscript is digitized it has been grasped or gained in some
>> psychological sense.   A couple of decades ago there was a similar aura
>> surrounding "making a database." It was a self-standing good, and sent out
>> a semiotic sign of ownership and power.  "I have a database of the Vedas,"
>> was an assertion of power and status independent of the instrumentalization
>> of the database.
>>
>> So perhaps it's reasonably easy to account for a desire to digitize
>> something.  (NB I'm not talking about rational reasons, but about
>> irrational motives.)
>>
>> Then, why refuse to share the resulting digital files?  Perhaps for all
>> the old reasons, connected with ideas about loss of mana (in the
>> Austronesian sense), fears about making a dreadful mistake, and residual
>> anger resulting from constructions of colonial oppression.
>>
>> Excuse my ramblings!
>>
>> Dominik
>>
>>
>>
>> ?
>> --
>> Professor Dominik Wujastyk <http://ualberta.academia.edu/DominikWujastyk>
>> ?,?
>>
>> Singhmar Chair in Classical Indian Society and Polity
>> ?,?
>>
>> Department of History and Classics
>> <http://historyandclassics.ualberta.ca/>
>> ?,?
>> University of Alberta, Canada
>> ?.?
>>
>> South Asia at the U of A:
>>
>> ?sas.ualberta.ca?
>> ??
>>
>>
>> On 28 July 2017 at 16:37, Madhav Deshpande via INDOLOGY <
>> indology at list.indology.info> wrote:
>>
>>> Here is an exciting news report about digitization of rare books at the
>>> BORI:
>>>
>>> http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/pune/
>>> digitalisation-of-rare-books-at-bori/articleshow/59502406.cms
>>>
>>> I hope the digitization projects succeed and the digitized books become
>>> openly available to scholars worldwide.
>>>
>>> Congratulations to Shrikant Bahulkar and his team at the BORI.
>>>
>>> Madhav Deshpande
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
>>> committee)
>>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options
>>> or unsubscribe)
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
> committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
> unsubscribe)
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
> committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
> unsubscribe)
>



-- 
James Hartzell, PhD(2x)
Basque Center on Cognition, Brain and Language (BCBL), Donostia, Spain
Center for Mind/Brain Sciences (CIMeC), The University of Trento, Italy
Center for Buddhist Studies, Columbia University, USA


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From hspier.muktabodha at gmail.com  Tue Aug  1 23:50:28 2017
From: hspier.muktabodha at gmail.com (Harry Spier)
Date: Tue, 01 Aug 17 19:50:28 -0400
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Digitization of Rare books at the BORI
In-Reply-To: <F9638594-74CD-4A3B-B438-A4F5BE60637D@austin.utexas.edu>
Message-ID: <CAPW7aQFkZzbupW_xGrc=mtgW=YSpbVb0RjgZ_-d-XtxCsD2VXw@mail.gmail.com>

Dear Patriick,

Could you say a little more about the "digitizing machines" at BORI.  Are
these specialized cameras for scanning books, scanners or something else?

Many thanks,
Harry Spier

On Tue, Aug 1, 2017 at 8:16 AM, Olivelle, J P via INDOLOGY <
indology at list.indology.info> wrote:

> I was at BORI last week and visited the digitization office with Prof.
> Bahulkar. They have three impressive digitizing machines, and as I
> understood it, they will make the final product available online. Right now
> it is in an intranet available only in-house. They are planning on
> digitizing their rare books library and the manuscript library. I am not
> sure whether the latter will be available to all comers on the internet, or
> will be protected by password and payment.
>
> Patrick
>
>
>
>
> On Aug 1, 2017, at 1:18 AM, Madhav Deshpande via INDOLOGY <
> indology at list.indology.info> wrote:
>
> I agree with you.
>
> On Mon, Jul 31, 2017 at 8:58 AM Dominik Wujastyk <wujastyk at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Dear Madhav and friends,
>>
>> Thanks for the great news about digitization plans at BORI.
>>
>> There's a phenomenon I've begun to be aware of over the last few years.
>> An institution or person in India announces a digitization plan.  Then some
>> digitization actually happens.  But then, the resulting files are hoarded
>> and not made available to scholars.  This has happened with MS collections
>> in Kerala, Mysore and elsewhere.  There are exceptions, of course.
>>
>> What motives and ideas are behind this behaviour?
>>
>> "Digitization" is a kind of magic word.  It is a semiotic sign for
>> participation in a progressive, modern world.  It's what you do if you
>> don't know what to do.  And "digitization" is also a sign for possession:
>>  if a manuscript is digitized it has been grasped or gained in some
>> psychological sense.   A couple of decades ago there was a similar aura
>> surrounding "making a database." It was a self-standing good, and sent out
>> a semiotic sign of ownership and power.  "I have a database of the Vedas,"
>> was an assertion of power and status independent of the instrumentalization
>> of the database.
>>
>> So perhaps it's reasonably easy to account for a desire to digitize
>> something.  (NB I'm not talking about rational reasons, but about
>> irrational motives.)
>>
>> Then, why refuse to share the resulting digital files?  Perhaps for all
>> the old reasons, connected with ideas about loss of mana (in the
>> Austronesian sense), fears about making a dreadful mistake, and residual
>> anger resulting from constructions of colonial oppression.
>>
>> Excuse my ramblings!
>>
>> Dominik
>>
>>
>>
>> ?
>> --
>> Professor Dominik Wujastyk <http://ualberta.academia.edu/DominikWujastyk>
>> ?,?
>>
>> Singhmar Chair in Classical Indian Society and Polity
>> ?,?
>>
>> Department of History and Classics
>> <http://historyandclassics.ualberta.ca/>
>> ?,?
>> University of Alberta, Canada
>> ?.?
>>
>> South Asia at the U of A:
>>
>> ?sas.ualberta.ca?
>> ??
>>
>>
>> On 28 July 2017 at 16:37, Madhav Deshpande via INDOLOGY <
>> indology at list.indology.info> wrote:
>>
>>> Here is an exciting news report about digitization of rare books at the
>>> BORI:
>>>
>>> http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/pune/
>>> digitalisation-of-rare-books-at-bori/articleshow/59502406.cms
>>>
>>> I hope the digitization projects succeed and the digitized books become
>>> openly available to scholars worldwide.
>>>
>>> Congratulations to Shrikant Bahulkar and his team at the BORI.
>>>
>>> Madhav Deshpande
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
>>> committee)
>>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options
>>> or unsubscribe)
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
> committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
> unsubscribe)
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
> committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
> unsubscribe)
>


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From dchakra at hotmail.de  Wed Aug  2 05:11:51 2017
From: dchakra at hotmail.de (Dr. Debabrata Chakrabarti)
Date: Wed, 02 Aug 17 05:11:51 +0000
Subject: [INDOLOGY] On the roof of the world, a Frenchwoman is on a quest to recover forgotten Buddhist treasures
Message-ID: <SG2PR0301MB209688B9540D20E050CD158DD9B00@SG2PR0301MB2096.apcprd03.prod.outlook.com>


Dear List Members,

I am sending herewith a link of the above title if anybody is interested to read it.

Warm Regards

Debabrata Chakrabarti

https://scroll.in/magazine/842497/on-the-roof-of-the-world-a-frenchwoman-is-on-a-quest-to-recover-a-forgotten-buddhist-treasure

[https://d1u4oo4rb13yy8.cloudfront.net/book/64229-lrjucjymul-1501169268.JPG]<https://scroll.in/magazine/842497/on-the-roof-of-the-world-a-frenchwoman-is-on-a-quest-to-recover-a-forgotten-buddhist-treasure>

On the roof of the world, a Frenchwoman is on a quest to recover forgotten Buddhist treasures<https://scroll.in/magazine/842497/on-the-roof-of-the-world-a-frenchwoman-is-on-a-quest-to-recover-a-forgotten-buddhist-treasure>
scroll.in
Exquisite art objects were gathering dust in the 15th century Matho monastery in Ladakh. Until Nelly Rieuf dedicated herself to restoring them.








???This body is like a musical instrument; what you hear depends upon how you play it.??? ??? Anandamayi Ma

???Inside every human being there exists a special heaven, whole and unbroken.??? - Paracelsus








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From hermantull at gmail.com  Wed Aug  2 15:45:41 2017
From: hermantull at gmail.com (Herman Tull)
Date: Wed, 02 Aug 17 11:45:41 -0400
Subject: [INDOLOGY] On the roof of the world, a Frenchwoman is on a quest to recover forgotten Buddhist treasures
In-Reply-To: <SG2PR0301MB209688B9540D20E050CD158DD9B00@SG2PR0301MB2096.apcprd03.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <CAFdBLNg0YufaRwLqdJpfqUOAf6HE0SvqFqA8fNZqsT_M6_BvTg@mail.gmail.com>

Fascinating. Thank you.

Herman Tull

On Wed, Aug 2, 2017 at 1:11 AM, Dr. Debabrata Chakrabarti via INDOLOGY <
indology at list.indology.info> wrote:

>
> Dear List Members,
>
> I am sending herewith a link of the above title if anybody is interested
> to read it.
>
> Warm Regards
>
> Debabrata Chakrabarti
>
> https://scroll.in/magazine/842497/on-the-roof-of-the-
> world-a-frenchwoman-is-on-a-quest-to-recover-a-forgotten-buddhist-treasure
>
> <https://scroll.in/magazine/842497/on-the-roof-of-the-world-a-frenchwoman-is-on-a-quest-to-recover-a-forgotten-buddhist-treasure>
> On the roof of the world, a Frenchwoman is on a quest to recover forgotten
> Buddhist treasures
> <https://scroll.in/magazine/842497/on-the-roof-of-the-world-a-frenchwoman-is-on-a-quest-to-recover-a-forgotten-buddhist-treasure>
> scroll.in
> Exquisite art objects were gathering dust in the 15th century Matho
> monastery in Ladakh. Until Nelly Rieuf dedicated herself to restoring them.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ???This body is like a musical instrument; what you hear depends upon how
> you play it.??? ??? Anandamayi Ma
>
> ???Inside every human being there exists a special heaven, whole and
> unbroken.??? - Paracelsus
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
> committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
> unsubscribe)
>


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From john.darumadera at gmail.com  Wed Aug  2 16:21:45 2017
From: john.darumadera at gmail.com (John Huntington)
Date: Wed, 02 Aug 17 12:21:45 -0400
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Dina Bangdel's Passing
Message-ID: <CAGbyd23Qr0btW9KB=109nVyGX7hJ8NuVNA-fekjCyL16GfnCTg@mail.gmail.com>

Dina Bangdel?s untimely death is a tragedy of many orders. Taken from us in
the prime of life, she was in the midst of several projects all of which
boded well for the disciplines of Nepali/Newar art history, Buddhism of the
Himalayas and art history in general. In addition she was a charismatic
leader and strong advocate for the arts in Nepal with a considerable
following as a national figure.



Her intelligence, personal charm, and positive outlook (?*no negativity*?
was a favorite saying of hers) gave her the ability to create positive
attitudes for the promotion, study, and preservation of historical
monuments. Her vision was very straightforward, ?*this needs to be done,
together we can do it, and here is the plan to do it*?.



Having worked with Dina closely on several projects, the ?Photographic
Documentation of Newar Buddhist Art and Architecture, and the *Circle of
Bliss* exhibition catalog, I came to know her more as a family member than
a graduate student or a colleague. Her contributions to these projects were
both generous in terms of time and effort and of the highest intellectual
level.



Personally, my family, Susan, Eric and Yumi, and I will miss her beyond any
possible words and her husband Bibh and her sons, Devan and Neel have our
most profound condolences.



May her *Indra capa kaya* (rainbow body) diffuse through the *sarva akasha*
totality of space.



John

Huntington


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From mkapstei at uchicago.edu  Wed Aug  2 21:21:46 2017
From: mkapstei at uchicago.edu (Matthew Kapstein)
Date: Wed, 02 Aug 17 21:21:46 +0000
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Dina Bangdel's Passing
In-Reply-To: <CAGbyd23Qr0btW9KB=109nVyGX7hJ8NuVNA-fekjCyL16GfnCTg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <82C3E42590D939418C74DD76B97DDED047C5228A@xm-mbx-06-prod>

What terrible news!
Dina was a jewel among jewels,
a wonderful human being,
and an invaluable scholar and activist on behalf of Nepal's artistic heritage.
Her passing comes much too soon,
and all who had the privilege to know her can
only be shocked and dismayed.

Matthew

Matthew Kapstein
Directeur d'?tudes,
Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes

Numata Visiting Professor of Buddhist Studies,
The University of Chicago

________________________________________
From: INDOLOGY [indology-bounces at list.indology.info] on behalf of John Huntington via INDOLOGY [indology at list.indology.info]
Sent: Wednesday, August 02, 2017 11:21 AM
To: Indology
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Dina Bangdel's Passing

Dina Bangdel?s untimely death is a tragedy of many orders. Taken from us in the prime of life, she was in the midst of several projects all of which boded well for the disciplines of Nepali/Newar art history, Buddhism of the Himalayas and art history in general. In addition she was a charismatic leader and strong advocate for the arts in Nepal with a considerable following as a national figure.

Her intelligence, personal charm, and positive outlook (?no negativity? was a favorite saying of hers) gave her the ability to create positive attitudes for the promotion, study, and preservation of historical monuments. Her vision was very straightforward, ?this needs to be done, together we can do it, and here is the plan to do it?.

Having worked with Dina closely on several projects, the ?Photographic Documentation of Newar Buddhist Art and Architecture, and the Circle of Bliss exhibition catalog, I came to know her more as a family member than a graduate student or a colleague. Her contributions to these projects were both generous in terms of time and effort and of the highest intellectual level.

Personally, my family, Susan, Eric and Yumi, and I will miss her beyond any possible words and her husband Bibh and her sons, Devan and Neel have our most profound condolences.

May her Indra capa kaya (rainbow body) diffuse through the sarva akasha totality of space.

John
Huntington





From paoloe.rosati at gmail.com  Wed Aug  2 21:42:13 2017
From: paoloe.rosati at gmail.com (Paolo Eugenio Rosati)
Date: Wed, 02 Aug 17 23:42:13 +0200
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Cosmo-Sexualism in Vedic Ritual - pdf request
Message-ID: <CAMOCTf_oRx9y0PTyug+VmUb2q9xr9p0Fgs-n4_rQquMKmbmF-Q@mail.gmail.com>

Dear Indologists,

Anyone has a pdf of this contribute:

Dange, Sadashiv Ambadas. 1974. ?Cosmo-Sexualism in Vedic Ritual.? In *Charudeva
Shastri Felicitation Volume*, vol. 1, edited by Sunit Kumar Chatterji,
23?44. Delhi: Charu Deva Shastri Felicitation Committee.

With the best wishes,
Paolo

-- 
*Paolo E. Rosati *
Archaeologist
PhD candidate in *Civilizations of Asia and Africa*
(South Asia Section)
Italian Institute of Oriental Studies
'Sapienza' University of Rome

*https://uniroma1.academia.edu/PaoloRosati/
<https://uniroma1.academia.edu/PaoloRosati/>*
paoloe.rosati at uniroma1.it
paoloe.rosati at gmail.com
Skype: paoloe.rosati
Mobile: (+39) 338 73 83 472


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From krishnaprasadah.g at gmail.com  Thu Aug  3 02:03:16 2017
From: krishnaprasadah.g at gmail.com (Krishnaprasad G)
Date: Thu, 03 Aug 17 07:33:16 +0530
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Cosmo-Sexualism in Vedic Ritual - pdf request
In-Reply-To: <CAMOCTf_oRx9y0PTyug+VmUb2q9xr9p0Fgs-n4_rQquMKmbmF-Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAODNnZhQGHQ5qHX_WW5k2gZrQ_=B5KjpUzyTfGpo5UJcBNUMgw@mail.gmail.com>

Dear Paolo
Some of the images are retaken for the better quality. If you still can't
read please let me know. I will resend the images.
  Cosmo Veda.pdf
<https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B5co7XNB-nfZSzRzR3VzWTNvd28/view?usp=drivesdk>


On 03-Aug-2017 3:13 AM, "Paolo Eugenio Rosati via INDOLOGY" <
indology at list.indology.info> wrote:

> Dear Indologists,
>
> Anyone has a pdf of this contribute:
>
> Dange, Sadashiv Ambadas. 1974. ?Cosmo-Sexualism in Vedic Ritual.? In *Charudeva
> Shastri Felicitation Volume*, vol. 1, edited by Sunit Kumar Chatterji,
> 23?44. Delhi: Charu Deva Shastri Felicitation Committee.
>
> With the best wishes,
> Paolo
>
> --
> *Paolo E. Rosati *
> Archaeologist
> PhD candidate in *Civilizations of Asia and Africa*
> (South Asia Section)
> Italian Institute of Oriental Studies
> 'Sapienza' University of Rome
>
> *https://uniroma1.academia.edu/PaoloRosati/
> <https://uniroma1.academia.edu/PaoloRosati/>*
> paoloe.rosati at uniroma1.it
> paoloe.rosati at gmail.com
> Skype: paoloe.rosati
> Mobile: (+39) 338 73 83 472
>
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
> committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
> unsubscribe)
>


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From psdmccartney at gmail.com  Thu Aug  3 04:08:13 2017
From: psdmccartney at gmail.com (patrick mccartney)
Date: Thu, 03 Aug 17 13:38:13 +0930
Subject: [INDOLOGY] bhagwa dvaj
Message-ID: <CAEzwJrB123aBxVFDJyteJGUAhCUsnagX9PP7dZKARe__P=uxEQ@mail.gmail.com>

Dear Friends,

I'm conducting a geneological study of the *bhagwa dvaj *flag, and would
appreciate any assistance in this matter.

I'm reading about the significance of the flag. As I'm sure many of you are
aware, it is the flag of choice for the RSS. They consider it their 'guru',
and have only recently hoisted the tricolour flag at their Nagpur
headquarters, after several decades of saying they never would. However, it
also happens to sit upon just about every Hindu temple I've ever seen. I'm
curious, then, if this could mean that every temple/ashram supports the
RSS, or that the RSS has simply co-opted the flag, and interpolated their
own political imagination onto the symbology inherent in the flag.
Either way, it is conveniently confusing, as it happens to also represent
san?tana dharma, which is equated with Hinduism. But, then, I would argue
that san?tana dharmic ideology rests at the core of the hindutva project.
Therefore, I'm quite confused about the semiotic entanglement of this one
sign, and its multiple semantic valencies.

I ask these questions because I figure that, if I have trouble
disambiguating these things, what is the chance of success for the recently
minted 200-hr yoga teacher graduate, or casual yoga practitioner?

I'm writing
<http://www.politicaltheology.com/blog/yoga-practitioners-and-the-unspoken-global-aspirations-of-indian-ethno-nationalism-patrick-mccartney/>
these
days about the entanglement of global yoga practitioners and their
potentially unwitting, tacit support of hindutva ideology. As an example,
Stephen Knapp, a prominent ISKCON-wallah, and head of the VFA (vedic
friends association), whom some of you might be familiar with,
controversially suggests the following:
<http://www.stephen-knapp.com/basic_points_about_vedic_culture_hinduism.htm>
"The Bhagwa flag has existed and guided the Vedic society right from its
origin. It has inspired and has been honored by the Vedic Saints and
heroes. In ancient times, the warriors used to put on saffron robes and go
to the battlefield. If they are victorious, they will rule and if
vanquished, they might die on the battlefield and thus go to heaven--such
was the motivating force for the heroes."

I find this appeal to a (martial) tradition somewhat perplexing. Aside from
what a lot of Knapp says, this is possibly less controversial; however, for
the uncritical mind, who is expected to unquestionably accept the truth
claims of certain gurus, this type of triction (truth+fiction), is a prime
example of how global yoga practitioners potentially come to unknowingly
support a hindutva world view, which, as Ramdev explains,
<https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WG7k42cg2W8> seeks to create a hindutva
alternative to an ISIS caliphate. This, by the way, is his solution. By
creating a global, Vedic theocratic state we can apparently stop a global
Salafist caliphate from succeeding...

Knapp has not responded to my question regarding the textual, historical or
archaeological source of his claims. I'm wondering, then, if anyone is able
to point me towards the earliest mention, perhaps, of the bhagwa dvaj,
anywhere, in a primary, or secondary, text.

Thank you.


All the best,

Patrick McCartney, PhD
Fellow
School of Culture, History & Language
College of the Asia-Pacific
The Australian National University
Canberra, Australia, 0200


Skype - psdmccartney
Phone + Whatsapp:  +61 414 954 748
Twitter - @psdmccartney


*bodhap?rvam calema* ;-)

academia <https://anu-au.academia.edu/patrickmccartney>

   -

Linkedin
<https://www.linkedin.com/profile/view?id=241756978&trk=nav_responsive_tab_profile>

Edanz <https://www.edanzediting.com/expert/anthropology/patrick-mccartney>

Conversation
<https://theconversation.com/profiles/patrick-mccartney-phd-136054>

YogaTrade
<https://yogatrade.com/resume/dr-dts7idm-anthropologist-phd-shanti-mandir-authenticity-economy-and-emotion-in-a-yoga-ashram-visiting-fellow-australian-national-university/>

Modern Yoga Research <http://www.modernyogaresearch.org/events/>

#yogabodyANU2016 symposium <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X80KxW2bb0w>
<http://chl.anu.edu.au/news-events/events/658/yoga-and-body-past-and-present-symposium?#tab>

Yoga Fundamentalism - Part 1
<http://www.politicaltheology.com/blog/yoga-practitioners-and-the-unspoken-global-aspirations-of-indian-ethno-nationalism-patrick-mccartney/>

<http://www.politicaltheology.com/blog/is-the-global-prestige-of-sanskrit-aiding-and-abetting-hindu-nationalists-and-supremacists-patrick-mccartney_/>
Yoga Fundamentalism - Part 2
<http://www.politicaltheology.com/blog/is-the-global-prestige-of-sanskrit-aiding-and-abetting-hindu-nationalists-and-supremacists-patrick-mccartney_/>

<http://oicd.net/ge/index.php/politics-beyond-yoga-mat-yoga-fundamentalism-vedic-way-life/>
Politics beyond the yoga mat
<http://oicd.net/ge/index.php/politics-beyond-yoga-mat-yoga-fundamentalism-vedic-way-life/>

The Sanitising Power of Spoken Sanskrit
<https://www.academia.edu/6274287/The_sanitising_power_of_spoken_Sanskrit>

Imagining Sanskrit Land
<https://www.academia.edu/32694583/IMAGINING_SANSKRIT_LAND_ARENA_MAGAZINE_ARTICLE>

Ep1 - Imagining Sanskrit Land <https://youtu.be/jMi7tkPBbJ4>

Ep 2 - Total-am <https://youtu.be/7tAp8m9RHPU>

Ep 3 - Jalam ? Chillum <https://youtu.be/cLZeuCT_mwQ>

Ep 4 - It's Time to get Married
<https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_B3un7aHEAc>

A Day in our Ashram
<https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=ek+din+hamaare+ashram+mein>

OzHarvest <https://youtu.be/r1E-XWWBmvw>

Stop animation short film of Shakuntala
<https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LVqBD_2P4Pg>

Forced to Clean Human Waste <http://youtu.be/y3XfjbwqC_g>

One of my favourite song <http://trinityroots.bandcamp.com/track/all-we-be>s

The Philosophy of Cycling
<http://elibrary.com.ng/UploadFiles/file0_2221.pdf>

Plato's Cave
<http://www.openculture.com/2011/07/orson_welles_narrates_platos_cave_allegory.html>

Endangered Languages MOOC
<https://www.edx.org/course/language-revival-securing-future-adelaidex-lang101x>

Blackfella-Whitefella <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M_DHwp5vYBI>

Triction <http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=triction>


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From paoloe.rosati at gmail.com  Thu Aug  3 09:00:46 2017
From: paoloe.rosati at gmail.com (Paolo Eugenio Rosati)
Date: Thu, 03 Aug 17 11:00:46 +0200
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Cosmo-Sexualism in Vedic Ritual - pdf request
In-Reply-To: <CAODNnZhQGHQ5qHX_WW5k2gZrQ_=B5KjpUzyTfGpo5UJcBNUMgw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAMOCTf9GtrimNKBEvMgKkUG7WrA9JiLf0+gsq7Dykg_7pU1kgg@mail.gmail.com>

Thanks a lot!
Paolo

On 3 August 2017 at 04:03, Krishnaprasad G <krishnaprasadah.g at gmail.com>
wrote:

> Dear Paolo
> Some of the images are retaken for the better quality. If you still can't
> read please let me know. I will resend the images.
>   Cosmo Veda.pdf
> <https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B5co7XNB-nfZSzRzR3VzWTNvd28/view?usp=drivesdk>
>
>
> On 03-Aug-2017 3:13 AM, "Paolo Eugenio Rosati via INDOLOGY" <
> indology at list.indology.info> wrote:
>
>> Dear Indologists,
>>
>> Anyone has a pdf of this contribute:
>>
>> Dange, Sadashiv Ambadas. 1974. ?Cosmo-Sexualism in Vedic Ritual.? In *Charudeva
>> Shastri Felicitation Volume*, vol. 1, edited by Sunit Kumar Chatterji,
>> 23?44. Delhi: Charu Deva Shastri Felicitation Committee.
>>
>> With the best wishes,
>> Paolo
>>
>> --
>> *Paolo E. Rosati *
>> Archaeologist
>> PhD candidate in *Civilizations of Asia and Africa*
>> (South Asia Section)
>> Italian Institute of Oriental Studies
>> 'Sapienza' University of Rome
>>
>> *https://uniroma1.academia.edu/PaoloRosati/
>> <https://uniroma1.academia.edu/PaoloRosati/>*
>> paoloe.rosati at uniroma1.it
>> paoloe.rosati at gmail.com
>> Skype: paoloe.rosati
>> Mobile: (+39) 338 73 83 472
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
>> committee)
>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
>> unsubscribe)
>>
>


-- 
*Paolo E. Rosati *
Archaeologist
PhD candidate in *Civilizations of Asia and Africa*
(South Asia Section)
Italian Institute of Oriental Studies
'Sapienza' University of Rome

*https://uniroma1.academia.edu/PaoloRosati/
<https://uniroma1.academia.edu/PaoloRosati/>*
paoloe.rosati at uniroma1.it
paoloe.rosati at gmail.com
Skype: paoloe.rosati
Mobile: (+39) 338 73 83 472


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From disimone at alumni.stanford.edu  Thu Aug  3 09:47:35 2017
From: disimone at alumni.stanford.edu (Charles DiSimone)
Date: Thu, 03 Aug 17 11:47:35 +0200
Subject: [INDOLOGY] PhD Scholarships for Buddhist Studies at LMU Munich
Message-ID: <CADKD_zgqdpbqvx320zMYeQbudb57URh2sx9zLBuCPbHhUQE6ZQ@mail.gmail.com>

Apologies for crossposting. Please share with any interested parties.

The Doctoral Program in Buddhist Studies at the
Ludwig-Maximilians-Universit?t in Munich, Germany invites applications for
two PhD scholarships for dissertation projects related to Buddhism.

Deadline for applications: 22 October 2017
Start of scholarship: summer or autumn 2018
Duration of scholarship: 3 years
Scholarship amount: 1000 ? per month + insurance + support for rent +
travel lump sums + 460 ? per year
Scholarship donor: German Academic Exchange Service (DAAD)

The selection process comprises two stages: Applications are sent to the
Doctoral Program in Buddhist Studies in Munich. The program will select
promising candidates, who then have to submit their materials to the DAAD.
It is expected that the successful candidates will be chosen and informed
by February 2018.

The prerequisites for application are non-German citizenship, a Master of
Arts or Magister Artium degree or equivalent in a relevant field, excellent
knowledge of at least one Buddhist source language, outstanding
qualifications in the subject, and fluency in English. A basic knowledge of
German is also desirable, though not a prerequisite, but willingness to
learn German/improve German language skills will be expected. Applicants
should not have lived in Germany for more than fifteen months at the time
of the submission of their materials to the DAAD (in December) and the last
final examination should have taken place no more than six years before
this date.

For details concerning the application, please visit our homepage:

http://www.en.buddhismus-studien.uni-muenchen.de/currentissues/phd_scholarships_2018/index.html

http://www.buddhismus-studien.uni-muenchen.de/aktuelles/stipendienausschreibung_2018/phd_s.
..

-- 
Dr. des. Charles DiSimone
Institut f?r Indologie und Tibetologie
Ludwig-Maximilians-Universit?t M?nchen


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From slaje at kabelmail.de  Thu Aug  3 10:30:12 2017
From: slaje at kabelmail.de (Walter Slaje)
Date: Thu, 03 Aug 17 12:30:12 +0200
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Program of the 33rd German Oriental Conference in Jena
Message-ID: <CALoZ1nVjgYYXCwpBcpFNTF0M0m-9CTQV_k78eh+G7mn-sjgZXQ@mail.gmail.com>

Dear Colleagues,

as of now, the preliminary program of the 33rd German Oriental Conference
(DOT) in Jena can be accessed online: http://www.dot2017.de/en/

Kindly regarding,
Walter Slaje

-----------------------------
Prof. Dr. Walter Slaje
Hermann-L?ns-Str. 1
D-99425 Weimar
Deutschland

Ego ex animi mei sententia spondeo ac polliceor
studia humanitatis impigro labore culturum et provecturum
non sordidi lucri causa nec ad vanam captandam gloriam,
sed quo magis veritas propagetur et lux eius, qua salus
humani generis continetur, clarius effulgeat.
Vindobonae, die XXI. mensis Novembris MCMLXXXIII.


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From michaels at asia-europe.uni-heidelberg.de  Thu Aug  3 11:01:57 2017
From: michaels at asia-europe.uni-heidelberg.de (Michaels, Axel)
Date: Thu, 03 Aug 17 11:01:57 +0000
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Dina Bangdel's Passing
In-Reply-To: <82C3E42590D939418C74DD76B97DDED047C5228A@xm-mbx-06-prod>
Message-ID: <7D16565C-9045-4BC9-A645-7117CD6B8AB2@asia-europe.uni-heidelberg.de>

I can only second the warm words for Dina Bangdel of John Huntington and Matthew Kapstein. Dina?s sudden and untimely death is a big loss for her family and Nepal. I had the pleasure to be on a panel together with a few months ago in Heidelberg. She was in such a good mood, also a few weeks later at the Art Trienale in Kathmandu. We are very sad and will miss her a lot.



Axel
--
Prof. Dr. Axel Michaels
Seniorprofessor and Director Excellence Cluster "Asia and Europe in a Global Context? | Vice President Heidelberger Academy of Science and Humanities| Director Research Unit "Historical Documents of Nepal" of the Heidelberg Academy of Sciences and Humanities
Contact: Universit?t Heidelberg, S?dasien-Institut | Im Neuenheimer Feld 330, D-69120 Heidelberg |Tel. +49-6221-548917 / Fax +49-6221-546338
Homepages: http://www.asia-europe.uni-heidelberg.de<https://exchange.uni-heidelberg.de/owa/redir.aspx?C=f1a10da1fac4416a98bc5b9c7fcac9d8&URL=http%3a%2f%2fwww.asia-europe.uni-heidelberg.de%2f> | http://www.sai.uni-heidelberg.de/abt/IND/index.html<https://exchange.uni-heidelberg.de/owa/redir.aspx?C=f1a10da1fac4416a98bc5b9c7fcac9d8&URL=http%3a%2f%2fwww.sai.uni-heidelberg.de%2fabt%2fIND%2findex.html> |http://www.haw.uni-heidelberg.de.forschung/forschungsstellen/nepal/projekt.de.html
Email: Axel.Michaels at urz.uni-heidelberg.de<https://exchange.uni-heidelberg.de/owa/redir.aspx?C=f1a10da1fac4416a98bc5b9c7fcac9d8&URL=mailto%3aAxel.Michaels%40urz.uni-heidelberg.de> (official and personal); michaels at asia-europe.uni-heidelberg.de<https://exchange.uni-heidelberg.de/owa/redir.aspx?C=f1a10da1fac4416a98bc5b9c7fcac9d8&URL=mailto%3amichaels%40asia-europe.uni-heidelberg.de> (Cluster mail)


Latest book publication:
Homo Ritualis. Hindu Ritual and Its Significance for Ritual Theory. New York, Oxford: Oxford University Press 2016
[cid:image001.png at 01D30C58.A504B1C0]







On 02.08.17, 23:21, "INDOLOGY on behalf of Matthew Kapstein via INDOLOGY" <indology-bounces at list.indology.info on behalf of indology at list.indology.info> wrote:



    What terrible news!

    Dina was a jewel among jewels,

    a wonderful human being,

    and an invaluable scholar and activist on behalf of Nepal's artistic heritage.

    Her passing comes much too soon,

    and all who had the privilege to know her can

    only be shocked and dismayed.



    Matthew



    Matthew Kapstein

    Directeur d'?tudes,

    Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes



    Numata Visiting Professor of Buddhist Studies,

    The University of Chicago



    ________________________________________

    From: INDOLOGY [indology-bounces at list.indology.info] on behalf of John Huntington via INDOLOGY [indology at list.indology.info]

    Sent: Wednesday, August 02, 2017 11:21 AM

    To: Indology

    Subject: [INDOLOGY] Dina Bangdel's Passing



    Dina Bangdel?s untimely death is a tragedy of many orders. Taken from us in the prime of life, she was in the midst of several projects all of which boded well for the disciplines of Nepali/Newar art history, Buddhism of the Himalayas and art history in general. In addition she was a charismatic leader and strong advocate for the arts in Nepal with a considerable following as a national figure.



    Her intelligence, personal charm, and positive outlook (?no negativity? was a favorite saying of hers) gave her the ability to create positive attitudes for the promotion, study, and preservation of historical monuments. Her vision was very straightforward, ?this needs to be done, together we can do it, and here is the plan to do it?.



    Having worked with Dina closely on several projects, the ?Photographic Documentation of Newar Buddhist Art and Architecture, and the Circle of Bliss exhibition catalog, I came to know her more as a family member than a graduate student or a colleague. Her contributions to these projects were both generous in terms of time and effort and of the highest intellectual level.



    Personally, my family, Susan, Eric and Yumi, and I will miss her beyond any possible words and her husband Bibh and her sons, Devan and Neel have our most profound condolences.



    May her Indra capa kaya (rainbow body) diffuse through the sarva akasha totality of space.



    John

    Huntington



    _______________________________________________

    INDOLOGY mailing list

    INDOLOGY at list.indology.info

    indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee)

    http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe)




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From eviatar.shulman at mail.huji.ac.il  Fri Aug  4 07:45:13 2017
From: eviatar.shulman at mail.huji.ac.il (Eviatar Shulman)
Date: Fri, 04 Aug 17 10:45:13 +0300
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Book Announcement
Message-ID: <CAGPpahh84iBgdVwt8s5qAgukQt4g5h4XX+pR9qMc8Kue9BS_0g@mail.gmail.com>

Dear friends and colleagues (and apologies for cross-posting),

I thought that members of the list may be interested in learning that my
book, *Rethinking the Buddha: Early Buddhist Philosophy as Meditative
Perception *(Cambridge, 2014) has recently been issued  in paperback. This
is a short description of its contents -




A cornerstone of Buddhist philosophy, the doctrine of the four noble truths
maintains that life is replete with suffering, desire is the cause of
suffering, nirvana is the end of suffering, and the way to nirvana is the
eightfold noble path. Although the attribution of this seminal doctrine to
the historical Buddha is ubiquitous, Rethinking the Buddha demonstrates
through a careful examination of early Buddhist texts that he did not
envision them in this way. Shulman traces the development of what we now
call the four noble truths, which in fact originated as observations to be
cultivated during deep meditation. The early texts reveal that other
central Buddhist doctrines, such as dependent-origination and selflessness,
similarly derived from meditative observations. This book challenges the
conventional view that the Buddha's teachings represent universal themes of
human existence, allowing for a fresh, compelling explanation of the
Buddhist theory of liberation.



With best regards,


Tari Shulman

-- 
Dr. Eviatar Shulman
Senior Lecturer
Department of Religious Studies
Department of Asian Studies
The Hebrew University of Jerusalem
http://www.cambridge.org/us/academic/subjects/religion/buddhism-and-eastern-religions/rethinking-buddha-early-buddhist-philosophy-meditative-perception


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From eviatar.shulman at mail.huji.ac.il  Fri Aug  4 07:46:30 2017
From: eviatar.shulman at mail.huji.ac.il (Eviatar Shulman)
Date: Fri, 04 Aug 17 10:46:30 +0300
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Conference announcement
Message-ID: <CAGPpahjiHxmP7uwCyxTLovOfAYfBw81TrV5Heyg3StjU3N+9GQ@mail.gmail.com>

Dear Friends and Colleagues,

I am pleased to send the call for papers for the 18th Asian Studies in
Israel conference, which well take place next may in Jerusalem. We would be
most pleased to accept Indological contributions.

With all best wishes,

Eviatar Shulman

Call for Papers:The 14th Conference of Asian Studies in Israel  (ASI18)

Dear colleagues,

We are delighted to announce that the 14th Biennial Conference of Asian
Studies in Israel (ASI18) will take place at the Hebrew University of
Jerusalem, Mt. Scopus Campus, on Wed-Thu, *May 23-24, 2018.*

We invite proposals on Asian-related topics (Central, South, East and
South-East Asia).  Priority will be given to thematic panels (3-4 papers +
chair and/or discussant), but individual paper submissions are also
welcome. The deadline for submitting proposals for either organized panels
or individual papers is *November 6, 2017.*

The proposal should include the title of the panel or the individual paper
together with a short abstract (150-200 words), as well as a short CV (1
page max) of the presenter/s. With the exception of roundtables, panel
proposals should also include the title and abstract of each paper. Please
indicate in your proposal what equipment, if any, will be required for your
panel or lecture. The conference will be bi-lingual (Hebrew/English).
Abstracts can be submitted in either English or Hebrew (preferably both).

Proposals for panels/papers, as well as all enquiries, should be submitted
by email to the conference mail (asi18huji at gmail.com( with copies to the
Frieberg Center (eacenter at mail.huji.ac.il) and to the conference's
convener, Prof. Michal Biran (ercmongol at gmail.com).

Conference guests are welcome to stay at the Beit Maiersdorf Faculty Club,
located at the conference venue. Priority will be given to foreign
participants. The Frieberg Center for East Asian Studies at the Hebrew
University will help in covering the accommodation costs of  foreign
participants but will not be able to participate in the cost of travel.

Please distribute this call for papers among your colleagues and networks.
Both Hebrew and Non-Hebrew speakers are most welcome.

On behalf of the organizing committee,

Prof. Michal Biran, Convener, The Frieberg Center for East Asian Studies
Dr. Nissim Otmazgin, Department of Asian Studies, HUJI
Dr. Orna Naftali, Department of Asian Studies, HUJI
Dr. Eviatar Shulman, Department of Asian Studies, HUJI
Dr. Jooyeon Rhee, Department of Asian Studies, HUJI
The Department of Asian Studies at the Hebrew University of Jerusalem is
the oldest in Israel and is one of the biggest departments in the Faculty
of Humanities, home to over 300 students specializing in Chinese, Japanese,
Korean, and Indian Studies. The department is characterized by its
excellence in research and teaching, and it maintains an environment of
cooperation between students and faculty in a wide array of extracurricular
activities. To read more about the department, visit:
http://asia.huji.ac.il/en.

-- 
Dr. Eviatar Shulman
Senior Lecturer
Department of Religious Studies
Department of Asian Studies
The Hebrew University of Jerusalem
http://www.cambridge.org/us/academic/subjects/religion/buddhism-and-eastern-religions/rethinking-buddha-early-buddhist-philosophy-meditative-perception


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From audrey.truschke at gmail.com  Fri Aug  4 15:49:06 2017
From: audrey.truschke at gmail.com (Audrey Truschke)
Date: Fri, 04 Aug 17 11:49:06 -0400
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Censoring Indian history in the name of protecting religion
Message-ID: <CAKq175qPQ0gbxXX=-FULcxa4ifYUWNa7b-gCu=UCVsNRhOxZtA@mail.gmail.com>

Dear Friends and Colleagues,

Some may be interested in this short piece that I wrote for History Today
on censoring scholarship published in India, based in part on my personal
experiences:

http://www.historytoday.com/audrey-truschke/censoring-indian-history

Audrey

Audrey Truschke
Assistant Professor
Department of History
Rutgers University-Newark


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From stella.sandahl at gmail.com  Fri Aug  4 16:03:55 2017
From: stella.sandahl at gmail.com (Stella Sandahl)
Date: Fri, 04 Aug 17 16:03:55 +0000
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Censoring Indian history in the name of protecting religion
In-Reply-To: <CAKq175qPQ0gbxXX=-FULcxa4ifYUWNa7b-gCu=UCVsNRhOxZtA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAExWbHQHk0rJYvkCp9h7F+eYw=nAfsfK-pJFJJmo6ZeHJnC=aw@mail.gmail.com>

Bravo!
Stella Sandahl

On Fri, Aug 4, 2017 at 11:50 AM Audrey Truschke via INDOLOGY <
indology at list.indology.info> wrote:

> Dear Friends and Colleagues,
>
> Some may be interested in this short piece that I wrote for History Today
> on censoring scholarship published in India, based in part on my personal
> experiences:
>
> http://www.historytoday.com/audrey-truschke/censoring-indian-history
>
> Audrey
>
> Audrey Truschke
> Assistant Professor
> Department of History
> Rutgers University-Newark
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
> committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
> unsubscribe)


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From veerankp at gmail.com  Sat Aug  5 07:59:42 2017
From: veerankp at gmail.com (Veeranarayana Pandurangi)
Date: Sat, 05 Aug 17 13:29:42 +0530
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Censoring Indian history in the name of protecting religion
In-Reply-To: <CAKq175qPQ0gbxXX=-FULcxa4ifYUWNa7b-gCu=UCVsNRhOxZtA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAPnSTeiba9hjOhM30+-DbLAb6TPQPiV_NmTt8e8xKE_QYnAcVw@mail.gmail.com>

Dear Colleague, I hope you will publish a web edition of the same book to
enable Indian readers access your research. Wendy Doniger did it.

On Fri, Aug 4, 2017 at 9:19 PM, Audrey Truschke via INDOLOGY <
indology at list.indology.info> wrote:

> Dear Friends and Colleagues,
>
> Some may be interested in this short piece that I wrote for History Today
> on censoring scholarship published in India, based in part on my personal
> experiences:
>
> http://www.historytoday.com/audrey-truschke/censoring-indian-history
>
> Audrey
>
> Audrey Truschke
> Assistant Professor
> Department of History
> Rutgers University-Newark
>
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
> committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
> unsubscribe)
>



-- 
Veeranarayana N.K. Pandurangi
Director of Academics
Dean, Faculty of Vedantas
Karnakata Samskrita University,
Pampa Mahakavi Road,
Chamarajpet, Bengaluru.


?? ??????????? ??????? ???????? ? ????????? ??? ???????? ??????? ? ??????
???????????????
?????????????? ??????? ??????? ??????????? ??????????????? ?????? ????????
??????????? (?.??.)

http://www.ksu.ac.in
http://www.ksu.ac.in/en/dr-veeranarayana-n-k-pandurangi/
<https://groups.google.com/forum/?hl=en&fromgroups#!forum/bvparishat>
https://groups.google.com/forum/?hl=en&fromgroups#!forum/bvparishat


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From nagarajpaturi at gmail.com  Mon Aug  7 05:54:22 2017
From: nagarajpaturi at gmail.com (Nagaraj Paturi)
Date: Mon, 07 Aug 17 11:24:22 +0530
Subject: [INDOLOGY] bhagwa dvaj
In-Reply-To: <CAEzwJrB123aBxVFDJyteJGUAhCUsnagX9PP7dZKARe__P=uxEQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAJGj9eZGAxDmN5q3YBAfvWBCaFvhbW54CXvnEu36w=Surn6V-w@mail.gmail.com>

Patrick,

Why do you give credence to all such fantasies and spend serious research
time to work on them?

All beliefs that someone, some religion, some nation, some ideology can
rule the whole world are fantasies.

""The Bhagwa flag has existed and guided the Vedic society right from its
origin. It has inspired and has been honored by the Vedic Saints and
heroes. In ancient times, the warriors used to put on saffron robes and go
to the battlefield. If they are victorious, they will rule and if
vanquished, they might die on the battlefield and thus go to heaven--such
was the motivating force for the heroes.""

is a fantasy about the past.




On Thu, Aug 3, 2017 at 9:38 AM, patrick mccartney via INDOLOGY <
indology at list.indology.info> wrote:

> Dear Friends,
>
> I'm conducting a geneological study of the *bhagwa dvaj *flag, and would
> appreciate any assistance in this matter.
>
> I'm reading about the significance of the flag. As I'm sure many of you
> are aware, it is the flag of choice for the RSS. They consider it their
> 'guru', and have only recently hoisted the tricolour flag at their Nagpur
> headquarters, after several decades of saying they never would. However, it
> also happens to sit upon just about every Hindu temple I've ever seen. I'm
> curious, then, if this could mean that every temple/ashram supports the
> RSS, or that the RSS has simply co-opted the flag, and interpolated their
> own political imagination onto the symbology inherent in the flag.
> Either way, it is conveniently confusing, as it happens to also represent
> san?tana dharma, which is equated with Hinduism. But, then, I would argue
> that san?tana dharmic ideology rests at the core of the hindutva project.
> Therefore, I'm quite confused about the semiotic entanglement of this one
> sign, and its multiple semantic valencies.
>
> I ask these questions because I figure that, if I have trouble
> disambiguating these things, what is the chance of success for the recently
> minted 200-hr yoga teacher graduate, or casual yoga practitioner?
>
> I'm writing
> <http://www.politicaltheology.com/blog/yoga-practitioners-and-the-unspoken-global-aspirations-of-indian-ethno-nationalism-patrick-mccartney/> these
> days about the entanglement of global yoga practitioners and their
> potentially unwitting, tacit support of hindutva ideology. As an example,
> Stephen Knapp, a prominent ISKCON-wallah, and head of the VFA (vedic
> friends association), whom some of you might be familiar with,
> controversially suggests the following:
> <http://www.stephen-knapp.com/basic_points_about_vedic_culture_hinduism.htm>
> "The Bhagwa flag has existed and guided the Vedic society right from its
> origin. It has inspired and has been honored by the Vedic Saints and
> heroes. In ancient times, the warriors used to put on saffron robes and go
> to the battlefield. If they are victorious, they will rule and if
> vanquished, they might die on the battlefield and thus go to heaven--such
> was the motivating force for the heroes."
>
> I find this appeal to a (martial) tradition somewhat perplexing. Aside
> from what a lot of Knapp says, this is possibly less controversial;
> however, for the uncritical mind, who is expected to unquestionably accept
> the truth claims of certain gurus, this type of triction (truth+fiction),
> is a prime example of how global yoga practitioners potentially come to
> unknowingly support a hindutva world view, which, as Ramdev explains,
> <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WG7k42cg2W8> seeks to create a hindutva
> alternative to an ISIS caliphate. This, by the way, is his solution. By
> creating a global, Vedic theocratic state we can apparently stop a global
> Salafist caliphate from succeeding...
>
> Knapp has not responded to my question regarding the textual, historical
> or archaeological source of his claims. I'm wondering, then, if anyone is
> able to point me towards the earliest mention, perhaps, of the bhagwa dvaj,
> anywhere, in a primary, or secondary, text.
>
> Thank you.
>
>
> All the best,
>
> Patrick McCartney, PhD
> Fellow
> School of Culture, History & Language
> College of the Asia-Pacific
> The Australian National University
> Canberra, Australia, 0200
>
>
> Skype - psdmccartney
> Phone + Whatsapp:  +61 414 954 748
> Twitter - @psdmccartney
>
>
> *bodhap?rvam calema* ;-)
>
> academia <https://anu-au.academia.edu/patrickmccartney>
>
>    -
>
> Linkedin
> <https://www.linkedin.com/profile/view?id=241756978&trk=nav_responsive_tab_profile>
>
> Edanz <https://www.edanzediting.com/expert/anthropology/patrick-mccartney>
>
> Conversation
> <https://theconversation.com/profiles/patrick-mccartney-phd-136054>
>
> YogaTrade
> <https://yogatrade.com/resume/dr-dts7idm-anthropologist-phd-shanti-mandir-authenticity-economy-and-emotion-in-a-yoga-ashram-visiting-fellow-australian-national-university/>
>
> Modern Yoga Research <http://www.modernyogaresearch.org/events/>
>
> #yogabodyANU2016 symposium <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X80KxW2bb0w>
> <http://chl.anu.edu.au/news-events/events/658/yoga-and-body-past-and-present-symposium?#tab>
>
> Yoga Fundamentalism - Part 1
> <http://www.politicaltheology.com/blog/yoga-practitioners-and-the-unspoken-global-aspirations-of-indian-ethno-nationalism-patrick-mccartney/>
>
>
> <http://www.politicaltheology.com/blog/is-the-global-prestige-of-sanskrit-aiding-and-abetting-hindu-nationalists-and-supremacists-patrick-mccartney_/>
> Yoga Fundamentalism - Part 2
> <http://www.politicaltheology.com/blog/is-the-global-prestige-of-sanskrit-aiding-and-abetting-hindu-nationalists-and-supremacists-patrick-mccartney_/>
>
>
> <http://oicd.net/ge/index.php/politics-beyond-yoga-mat-yoga-fundamentalism-vedic-way-life/>
> Politics beyond the yoga mat
> <http://oicd.net/ge/index.php/politics-beyond-yoga-mat-yoga-fundamentalism-vedic-way-life/>
>
> The Sanitising Power of Spoken Sanskrit
> <https://www.academia.edu/6274287/The_sanitising_power_of_spoken_Sanskrit>
>
> Imagining Sanskrit Land
> <https://www.academia.edu/32694583/IMAGINING_SANSKRIT_LAND_ARENA_MAGAZINE_ARTICLE>
>
> Ep1 - Imagining Sanskrit Land <https://youtu.be/jMi7tkPBbJ4>
>
> Ep 2 - Total-am <https://youtu.be/7tAp8m9RHPU>
>
> Ep 3 - Jalam ? Chillum <https://youtu.be/cLZeuCT_mwQ>
>
> Ep 4 - It's Time to get Married
> <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_B3un7aHEAc>
>
> A Day in our Ashram
> <https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=ek+din+hamaare+ashram+mein>
>
> OzHarvest <https://youtu.be/r1E-XWWBmvw>
>
> Stop animation short film of Shakuntala
> <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LVqBD_2P4Pg>
>
> Forced to Clean Human Waste <http://youtu.be/y3XfjbwqC_g>
>
> One of my favourite song
> <http://trinityroots.bandcamp.com/track/all-we-be>s
>
> The Philosophy of Cycling
> <http://elibrary.com.ng/UploadFiles/file0_2221.pdf>
>
> Plato's Cave
> <http://www.openculture.com/2011/07/orson_welles_narrates_platos_cave_allegory.html>
>
> Endangered Languages MOOC
> <https://www.edx.org/course/language-revival-securing-future-adelaidex-lang101x>
>
> Blackfella-Whitefella <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M_DHwp5vYBI>
>
> Triction <http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=triction>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
> committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
> unsubscribe)
>



-- 
Nagaraj Paturi

Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.


BoS, MIT School of Vedic Sciences, Pune, Maharashtra

BoS, Chinmaya Vishwavidyapeeth, Veliyanad, Kerala

Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies

FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of  Liberal Education,

(Pune, Maharashtra, INDIA )


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From psdmccartney at gmail.com  Mon Aug  7 08:13:19 2017
From: psdmccartney at gmail.com (patrick mccartney)
Date: Mon, 07 Aug 17 17:43:19 +0930
Subject: [INDOLOGY] bhagwa dvaj
In-Reply-To: <CAJGj9eZGAxDmN5q3YBAfvWBCaFvhbW54CXvnEu36w=Surn6V-w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAEzwJrCmr2aT46XtaMh05W80LOBwsx8NKDn6hR7CW9wOJcd2LA@mail.gmail.com>

Dear Nagaraj,

It's a good question. Please let me try and explain.

I'm an anthropologist, primarily, who is interested in the politics of
imagination and the commodification of desire. I am using a dialogic
utopian method to explore what the world *could be* for various groups.
With that in mind, my remit is to suspend judgement and disbelief, and *try*
to privilege the emic perspective.

I focus on the global wellness industry, of which yoga and ayurveda are a
part. More specifically, I analyse the marketing rhetoric of the global
yoga industry. I do this to understand many things, however, one thing in
particular that I am increasingly interested in is the tacit links, via the
Sanskrit episteme, between the ethno-nationalism of the Indian state and
the desires of global yoga practitioners, which are overwhelmingly to apply
yoga, as a technology, to help re-enchant disenchanted worlds. It is
through the cultural capital of yoga and prestige of Sanskrit that hindutva
ideology is normalised and legitimised.

There are many ways in which global yoga practitioners come to unwittingly
support the banal nationalism of hindutva. Two principal ways are through
the soft hindutva of various yoga gurus,
<https://lareviewofbooks.org/article/the-soft-nationalism-of-amma-indias-hugging-saint/>
and the fantasies of people like David Frawley, Stephen Knapp and PN Oak.
This hindutva-inspired world view permeates to deep layers of global yoga.
Furthermore, the logic of the guru-disciple relationship relies on the
cultivation of affect. People are taught how to feel, and not to think
critically. This further creates opportunities for hindutva logic to be
infused into the guru's rhetoric, normalised, and consumed by the global
yoga practitioner.

Of course, all nations are metaphysical entities, and exist within social
imaginary landscapes. Are you suggesting that we should ignore the
fantasies of hindutvav?dins as mere pie in the sky machinations, and not
take them seriously? Or should we, instead, see them as earnest
post-colonial, counter-hegemonic assertions against the privilege of
Eurocentric perspectives?  While it seems unlikely that as Praveen Togadia
and others assert, that the world will become Hindu/Vedic by 2030-ish, and
that Sanskrit will replace English, these post-colonial assertions mean
something to the people saying them, especially when they are found not
only in the echo chambers of Hindu supremacists, but also within the global
imagination of yoga practitioners.

Therefore, how do these seemingly disparate worlds intersect? This is
particularly pertinent given that a seeming majority of global yoga
practitioners consider the legitimate yogic disposition to be apolitical,
which is another way in which the theo-politics of hindutva gains
popularity, simply because people do not want to think about yoga AND
politics, or that yoga might be involved in larger political operations.

My fieldwork amongst global yoga practitioners leads me to assert that
there are many who eagerly await a Vedic-inspired utopian ramrajya, but do
not, however, really understand the implications, as what we are more or
less discussing is the aspiration to create a global Vedic caliphate, which
is what Ramdev asserts is the only answer to stopping ISIS. These aren't
fringe fantasies, as the key note speakers who attended this conference
<http://www.vedicindiafoundation.org/speakers.html> attest.

Therefore, in a nutshell, this is why I give credence to such fantasies.

Best,

Patrick








On Aug 7, 2017 3:25 PM, "Nagaraj Paturi" <nagarajpaturi at gmail.com> wrote:

> Patrick,
>
> Why do you give credence to all such fantasies and spend serious research
> time to work on them?
>
> All beliefs that someone, some religion, some nation, some ideology can
> rule the whole world are fantasies.
>
> ""The Bhagwa flag has existed and guided the Vedic society right from its
> origin. It has inspired and has been honored by the Vedic Saints and
> heroes. In ancient times, the warriors used to put on saffron robes and go
> to the battlefield. If they are victorious, they will rule and if
> vanquished, they might die on the battlefield and thus go to heaven--such
> was the motivating force for the heroes.""
>
> is a fantasy about the past.
>
>
>
>
> On Thu, Aug 3, 2017 at 9:38 AM, patrick mccartney via INDOLOGY <
> indology at list.indology.info> wrote:
>
>> Dear Friends,
>>
>> I'm conducting a geneological study of the *bhagwa dvaj *flag, and would
>> appreciate any assistance in this matter.
>>
>> I'm reading about the significance of the flag. As I'm sure many of you
>> are aware, it is the flag of choice for the RSS. They consider it their
>> 'guru', and have only recently hoisted the tricolour flag at their Nagpur
>> headquarters, after several decades of saying they never would. However, it
>> also happens to sit upon just about every Hindu temple I've ever seen. I'm
>> curious, then, if this could mean that every temple/ashram supports the
>> RSS, or that the RSS has simply co-opted the flag, and interpolated their
>> own political imagination onto the symbology inherent in the flag.
>> Either way, it is conveniently confusing, as it happens to also represent
>> san?tana dharma, which is equated with Hinduism. But, then, I would argue
>> that san?tana dharmic ideology rests at the core of the hindutva project.
>> Therefore, I'm quite confused about the semiotic entanglement of this one
>> sign, and its multiple semantic valencies.
>>
>> I ask these questions because I figure that, if I have trouble
>> disambiguating these things, what is the chance of success for the recently
>> minted 200-hr yoga teacher graduate, or casual yoga practitioner?
>>
>> I'm writing
>> <http://www.politicaltheology.com/blog/yoga-practitioners-and-the-unspoken-global-aspirations-of-indian-ethno-nationalism-patrick-mccartney/> these
>> days about the entanglement of global yoga practitioners and their
>> potentially unwitting, tacit support of hindutva ideology. As an example,
>> Stephen Knapp, a prominent ISKCON-wallah, and head of the VFA (vedic
>> friends association), whom some of you might be familiar with,
>> controversially suggests the following:
>> <http://www.stephen-knapp.com/basic_points_about_vedic_culture_hinduism.htm>
>> "The Bhagwa flag has existed and guided the Vedic society right from its
>> origin. It has inspired and has been honored by the Vedic Saints and
>> heroes. In ancient times, the warriors used to put on saffron robes and go
>> to the battlefield. If they are victorious, they will rule and if
>> vanquished, they might die on the battlefield and thus go to heaven--such
>> was the motivating force for the heroes."
>>
>> I find this appeal to a (martial) tradition somewhat perplexing. Aside
>> from what a lot of Knapp says, this is possibly less controversial;
>> however, for the uncritical mind, who is expected to unquestionably accept
>> the truth claims of certain gurus, this type of triction (truth+fiction),
>> is a prime example of how global yoga practitioners potentially come to
>> unknowingly support a hindutva world view, which, as Ramdev explains,
>> <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WG7k42cg2W8> seeks to create a hindutva
>> alternative to an ISIS caliphate. This, by the way, is his solution. By
>> creating a global, Vedic theocratic state we can apparently stop a global
>> Salafist caliphate from succeeding...
>>
>> Knapp has not responded to my question regarding the textual, historical
>> or archaeological source of his claims. I'm wondering, then, if anyone is
>> able to point me towards the earliest mention, perhaps, of the bhagwa dvaj,
>> anywhere, in a primary, or secondary, text.
>>
>> Thank you.
>>
>>
>> All the best,
>>
>> Patrick McCartney, PhD
>> Fellow
>> School of Culture, History & Language
>> College of the Asia-Pacific
>> The Australian National University
>> Canberra, Australia, 0200
>>
>>
>> Skype - psdmccartney
>> Phone + Whatsapp:  +61 414 954 748 <0414%20954%20748>
>> Twitter - @psdmccartney
>>
>>
>> *bodhap?rvam calema* ;-)
>>
>> academia <https://anu-au.academia.edu/patrickmccartney>
>>
>>    -
>>
>> Linkedin
>> <https://www.linkedin.com/profile/view?id=241756978&trk=nav_responsive_tab_profile>
>>
>> Edanz
>> <https://www.edanzediting.com/expert/anthropology/patrick-mccartney>
>>
>> Conversation
>> <https://theconversation.com/profiles/patrick-mccartney-phd-136054>
>>
>> YogaTrade
>> <https://yogatrade.com/resume/dr-dts7idm-anthropologist-phd-shanti-mandir-authenticity-economy-and-emotion-in-a-yoga-ashram-visiting-fellow-australian-national-university/>
>>
>> Modern Yoga Research <http://www.modernyogaresearch.org/events/>
>>
>> #yogabodyANU2016 symposium <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X80KxW2bb0w>
>> <http://chl.anu.edu.au/news-events/events/658/yoga-and-body-past-and-present-symposium?#tab>
>>
>> Yoga Fundamentalism - Part 1
>> <http://www.politicaltheology.com/blog/yoga-practitioners-and-the-unspoken-global-aspirations-of-indian-ethno-nationalism-patrick-mccartney/>
>>
>>
>> <http://www.politicaltheology.com/blog/is-the-global-prestige-of-sanskrit-aiding-and-abetting-hindu-nationalists-and-supremacists-patrick-mccartney_/>
>> Yoga Fundamentalism - Part 2
>> <http://www.politicaltheology.com/blog/is-the-global-prestige-of-sanskrit-aiding-and-abetting-hindu-nationalists-and-supremacists-patrick-mccartney_/>
>>
>>
>> <http://oicd.net/ge/index.php/politics-beyond-yoga-mat-yoga-fundamentalism-vedic-way-life/>
>> Politics beyond the yoga mat
>> <http://oicd.net/ge/index.php/politics-beyond-yoga-mat-yoga-fundamentalism-vedic-way-life/>
>>
>> The Sanitising Power of Spoken Sanskrit
>> <https://www.academia.edu/6274287/The_sanitising_power_of_spoken_Sanskrit>
>>
>> Imagining Sanskrit Land
>> <https://www.academia.edu/32694583/IMAGINING_SANSKRIT_LAND_ARENA_MAGAZINE_ARTICLE>
>>
>> Ep1 - Imagining Sanskrit Land <https://youtu.be/jMi7tkPBbJ4>
>>
>> Ep 2 - Total-am <https://youtu.be/7tAp8m9RHPU>
>>
>> Ep 3 - Jalam ? Chillum <https://youtu.be/cLZeuCT_mwQ>
>>
>> Ep 4 - It's Time to get Married
>> <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_B3un7aHEAc>
>>
>> A Day in our Ashram
>> <https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=ek+din+hamaare+ashram+mein>
>>
>> OzHarvest <https://youtu.be/r1E-XWWBmvw>
>>
>> Stop animation short film of Shakuntala
>> <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LVqBD_2P4Pg>
>>
>> Forced to Clean Human Waste <http://youtu.be/y3XfjbwqC_g>
>>
>> One of my favourite song
>> <http://trinityroots.bandcamp.com/track/all-we-be>s
>>
>> The Philosophy of Cycling
>> <http://elibrary.com.ng/UploadFiles/file0_2221.pdf>
>>
>> Plato's Cave
>> <http://www.openculture.com/2011/07/orson_welles_narrates_platos_cave_allegory.html>
>>
>> Endangered Languages MOOC
>> <https://www.edx.org/course/language-revival-securing-future-adelaidex-lang101x>
>>
>> Blackfella-Whitefella <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M_DHwp5vYBI>
>>
>> Triction <http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=triction>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
>> committee)
>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
>> unsubscribe)
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Nagaraj Paturi
>
> Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.
>
>
> BoS, MIT School of Vedic Sciences, Pune, Maharashtra
>
> BoS, Chinmaya Vishwavidyapeeth, Veliyanad, Kerala
>
> Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies
>
> FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of  Liberal Education,
>
> (Pune, Maharashtra, INDIA )
>
>
>
>


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From nagarajpaturi at gmail.com  Mon Aug  7 10:55:33 2017
From: nagarajpaturi at gmail.com (Nagaraj Paturi)
Date: Mon, 07 Aug 17 16:25:33 +0530
Subject: [INDOLOGY] bhagwa dvaj
In-Reply-To: <CAEzwJrCmr2aT46XtaMh05W80LOBwsx8NKDn6hR7CW9wOJcd2LA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAJGj9eb6HpPGz=nQd=VWw2xwLfvgRM6G9XB9+Z496HtfC3A4Wg@mail.gmail.com>

It is interesting to read your words,

"With that in mind, my remit is to suspend judgement and disbelief, and
*try* to privilege the emic perspective."

Not related to the topic of the fantasies being discussed,

Do you think Indology centred around /rooted in historical critical method
and privileging emic perspectives that are neither historical nor critical
can go hand in hand?

........................................

That apart, coming to the present topic of your study of these fantasies,

Are you sure that you suspended your judgement?

.........................................

Historians of 'Hinduism', particularly of modern 'Hinduism', can very
easily note that the messianic, proselytising features of 'Hinduism',
particularly their manifestation in the 'Hindu' organizational activities
outside India started only during modern period and in response/reaction to
or imitation of Christian evangelical activities and not  as earnest or
frivolous post-colonial, counter-hegemonic assertions against the privilege
of Eurocentric perspectives. 'post-colonial, counter-hegemonic assertions
against the privilege of Eurocentric perspectives' belong to the academic
arena or the arena of idea generations or idea conflicts. These  messianic,
proselytising features of 'Hinduism' are manifest in the activist or action
arena.

Within the global wellness industry, Yoga and Ayurveda are not  in a
position to give even a weak competition to Allopathic medicine where the
roll model of the messianic, proselytising groups of 'Hinduism', their
competitor , i.e., the Christian missionary evangelism is well rooted,
widespread and strongly supported by the worldwide rich Christian
'charity'.

There are discussions on George Bush's role in such activities here
<http://www.frontline.in/static/html/fl2204/stories/20050225000506400.htm>,
here
<https://www.google.co.in/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwj18LqY78TVAhXDo48KHfNRCN8QFggnMAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fhiebertglobalcenter.org%2Fblog%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2013%2F03%2FReading-31-Tehelka-the-Peoples-Paper.pdf&usg=AFQjCNFXtWUlM8bzlKHbGYLy_9ZHiFnjzw>
, here
<https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/the-bush-government-and-christian-conversions-in-india.15060/>
 and so on.

There have been numerous studies on how the well meaning followers of
certain contemporary internationally mainstream academic methods
unwittingly fall into the trap of Christian ideas. Some people may argue
that this is part of global Christian imperialist project.

Islam, the other religion which has been in competition with Christianity
from centuries in messianic proselytising activities did not use any
wellness industry method for its spread.

So, if at all there is any wellness industry method that is being used by
the messianic proselytising groups of Hinduism, the roll model or
comparable phenomenon is the use of Allopathic medicine by Christian
missionary evangelism.

Communists had the dream of World Communist Empire in the name of World
Communist Society. That is now shattered by the collapse of USSR and other
communist regimes.

Some ISKCON initiated young students of me used to tell me around 25 years
ago that their movement can become a or the world religion some day. The
same persons today laugh at their own young day fantasies.

Christianity and Islam were the only two mutual competitors in this aspect
in the religions sector. They are now getting newer and newer competitors
at least in dreaming for their world kingdoms. Competition from others is
the limiting factor for each of these dreamers including the 'Hindu' ones.
That is what makes their fantasies remain fantasies.





On Mon, Aug 7, 2017 at 1:43 PM, patrick mccartney <psdmccartney at gmail.com>
wrote:

> Dear Nagaraj,
>
> It's a good question. Please let me try and explain.
>
> I'm an anthropologist, primarily, who is interested in the politics of
> imagination and the commodification of desire. I am using a dialogic
> utopian method to explore what the world *could be* for various groups.
> With that in mind, my remit is to suspend judgement and disbelief, and
> *try* to privilege the emic perspective.
>
> I focus on the global wellness industry, of which yoga and ayurveda are a
> part. More specifically, I analyse the marketing rhetoric of the global
> yoga industry. I do this to understand many things, however, one thing in
> particular that I am increasingly interested in is the tacit links, via the
> Sanskrit episteme, between the ethno-nationalism of the Indian state and
> the desires of global yoga practitioners, which are overwhelmingly to apply
> yoga, as a technology, to help re-enchant disenchanted worlds. It is
> through the cultural capital of yoga and prestige of Sanskrit that hindutva
> ideology is normalised and legitimised.
>
> There are many ways in which global yoga practitioners come to unwittingly
> support the banal nationalism of hindutva. Two principal ways are through
> the soft hindutva of various yoga gurus,
> <https://lareviewofbooks.org/article/the-soft-nationalism-of-amma-indias-hugging-saint/>
> and the fantasies of people like David Frawley, Stephen Knapp and PN Oak.
> This hindutva-inspired world view permeates to deep layers of global yoga.
> Furthermore, the logic of the guru-disciple relationship relies on the
> cultivation of affect. People are taught how to feel, and not to think
> critically. This further creates opportunities for hindutva logic to be
> infused into the guru's rhetoric, normalised, and consumed by the global
> yoga practitioner.
>
> Of course, all nations are metaphysical entities, and exist within social
> imaginary landscapes. Are you suggesting that we should ignore the
> fantasies of hindutvav?dins as mere pie in the sky machinations, and not
> take them seriously? Or should we, instead, see them as earnest
> post-colonial, counter-hegemonic assertions against the privilege of
> Eurocentric perspectives?  While it seems unlikely that as Praveen Togadia
> and others assert, that the world will become Hindu/Vedic by 2030-ish, and
> that Sanskrit will replace English, these post-colonial assertions mean
> something to the people saying them, especially when they are found not
> only in the echo chambers of Hindu supremacists, but also within the global
> imagination of yoga practitioners.
>
> Therefore, how do these seemingly disparate worlds intersect? This is
> particularly pertinent given that a seeming majority of global yoga
> practitioners consider the legitimate yogic disposition to be apolitical,
> which is another way in which the theo-politics of hindutva gains
> popularity, simply because people do not want to think about yoga AND
> politics, or that yoga might be involved in larger political operations.
>
> My fieldwork amongst global yoga practitioners leads me to assert that
> there are many who eagerly await a Vedic-inspired utopian ramrajya, but do
> not, however, really understand the implications, as what we are more or
> less discussing is the aspiration to create a global Vedic caliphate, which
> is what Ramdev asserts is the only answer to stopping ISIS. These aren't
> fringe fantasies, as the key note speakers who attended this conference
> <http://www.vedicindiafoundation.org/speakers.html> attest.
>
> Therefore, in a nutshell, this is why I give credence to such fantasies.
>
> Best,
>
> Patrick
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Aug 7, 2017 3:25 PM, "Nagaraj Paturi" <nagarajpaturi at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Patrick,
>>
>> Why do you give credence to all such fantasies and spend serious research
>> time to work on them?
>>
>> All beliefs that someone, some religion, some nation, some ideology can
>> rule the whole world are fantasies.
>>
>> ""The Bhagwa flag has existed and guided the Vedic society right from
>> its origin. It has inspired and has been honored by the Vedic Saints and
>> heroes. In ancient times, the warriors used to put on saffron robes and go
>> to the battlefield. If they are victorious, they will rule and if
>> vanquished, they might die on the battlefield and thus go to heaven--such
>> was the motivating force for the heroes.""
>>
>> is a fantasy about the past.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Aug 3, 2017 at 9:38 AM, patrick mccartney via INDOLOGY <
>> indology at list.indology.info> wrote:
>>
>>> Dear Friends,
>>>
>>> I'm conducting a geneological study of the *bhagwa dvaj *flag, and
>>> would appreciate any assistance in this matter.
>>>
>>> I'm reading about the significance of the flag. As I'm sure many of you
>>> are aware, it is the flag of choice for the RSS. They consider it their
>>> 'guru', and have only recently hoisted the tricolour flag at their Nagpur
>>> headquarters, after several decades of saying they never would. However, it
>>> also happens to sit upon just about every Hindu temple I've ever seen. I'm
>>> curious, then, if this could mean that every temple/ashram supports the
>>> RSS, or that the RSS has simply co-opted the flag, and interpolated their
>>> own political imagination onto the symbology inherent in the flag.
>>> Either way, it is conveniently confusing, as it happens to also
>>> represent san?tana dharma, which is equated with Hinduism. But, then, I
>>> would argue that san?tana dharmic ideology rests at the core of the
>>> hindutva project. Therefore, I'm quite confused about the semiotic
>>> entanglement of this one sign, and its multiple semantic valencies.
>>>
>>> I ask these questions because I figure that, if I have trouble
>>> disambiguating these things, what is the chance of success for the recently
>>> minted 200-hr yoga teacher graduate, or casual yoga practitioner?
>>>
>>> I'm writing
>>> <http://www.politicaltheology.com/blog/yoga-practitioners-and-the-unspoken-global-aspirations-of-indian-ethno-nationalism-patrick-mccartney/> these
>>> days about the entanglement of global yoga practitioners and their
>>> potentially unwitting, tacit support of hindutva ideology. As an example,
>>> Stephen Knapp, a prominent ISKCON-wallah, and head of the VFA (vedic
>>> friends association), whom some of you might be familiar with,
>>> controversially suggests the following:
>>> <http://www.stephen-knapp.com/basic_points_about_vedic_culture_hinduism.htm>
>>> "The Bhagwa flag has existed and guided the Vedic society right from its
>>> origin. It has inspired and has been honored by the Vedic Saints and
>>> heroes. In ancient times, the warriors used to put on saffron robes and go
>>> to the battlefield. If they are victorious, they will rule and if
>>> vanquished, they might die on the battlefield and thus go to heaven--such
>>> was the motivating force for the heroes."
>>>
>>> I find this appeal to a (martial) tradition somewhat perplexing. Aside
>>> from what a lot of Knapp says, this is possibly less controversial;
>>> however, for the uncritical mind, who is expected to unquestionably accept
>>> the truth claims of certain gurus, this type of triction (truth+fiction),
>>> is a prime example of how global yoga practitioners potentially come to
>>> unknowingly support a hindutva world view, which, as Ramdev explains,
>>> <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WG7k42cg2W8> seeks to create a
>>> hindutva alternative to an ISIS caliphate. This, by the way, is his
>>> solution. By creating a global, Vedic theocratic state we can apparently
>>> stop a global Salafist caliphate from succeeding...
>>>
>>> Knapp has not responded to my question regarding the textual, historical
>>> or archaeological source of his claims. I'm wondering, then, if anyone is
>>> able to point me towards the earliest mention, perhaps, of the bhagwa dvaj,
>>> anywhere, in a primary, or secondary, text.
>>>
>>> Thank you.
>>>
>>>
>>> All the best,
>>>
>>> Patrick McCartney, PhD
>>> Fellow
>>> School of Culture, History & Language
>>> College of the Asia-Pacific
>>> The Australian National University
>>> Canberra, Australia, 0200
>>>
>>>
>>> Skype - psdmccartney
>>> Phone + Whatsapp:  +61 414 954 748 <0414%20954%20748>
>>> Twitter - @psdmccartney
>>>
>>>
>>> *bodhap?rvam calema* ;-)
>>>
>>> academia <https://anu-au.academia.edu/patrickmccartney>
>>>
>>>    -
>>>
>>> Linkedin
>>> <https://www.linkedin.com/profile/view?id=241756978&trk=nav_responsive_tab_profile>
>>>
>>> Edanz
>>> <https://www.edanzediting.com/expert/anthropology/patrick-mccartney>
>>>
>>> Conversation
>>> <https://theconversation.com/profiles/patrick-mccartney-phd-136054>
>>>
>>> YogaTrade
>>> <https://yogatrade.com/resume/dr-dts7idm-anthropologist-phd-shanti-mandir-authenticity-economy-and-emotion-in-a-yoga-ashram-visiting-fellow-australian-national-university/>
>>>
>>> Modern Yoga Research <http://www.modernyogaresearch.org/events/>
>>>
>>> #yogabodyANU2016 symposium <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X80KxW2bb0w>
>>>
>>> <http://chl.anu.edu.au/news-events/events/658/yoga-and-body-past-and-present-symposium?#tab>
>>>
>>> Yoga Fundamentalism - Part 1
>>> <http://www.politicaltheology.com/blog/yoga-practitioners-and-the-unspoken-global-aspirations-of-indian-ethno-nationalism-patrick-mccartney/>
>>>
>>>
>>> <http://www.politicaltheology.com/blog/is-the-global-prestige-of-sanskrit-aiding-and-abetting-hindu-nationalists-and-supremacists-patrick-mccartney_/>
>>> Yoga Fundamentalism - Part 2
>>> <http://www.politicaltheology.com/blog/is-the-global-prestige-of-sanskrit-aiding-and-abetting-hindu-nationalists-and-supremacists-patrick-mccartney_/>
>>>
>>>
>>> <http://oicd.net/ge/index.php/politics-beyond-yoga-mat-yoga-fundamentalism-vedic-way-life/>
>>> Politics beyond the yoga mat
>>> <http://oicd.net/ge/index.php/politics-beyond-yoga-mat-yoga-fundamentalism-vedic-way-life/>
>>>
>>> The Sanitising Power of Spoken Sanskrit
>>> <https://www.academia.edu/6274287/The_sanitising_power_of_spoken_Sanskrit>
>>>
>>> Imagining Sanskrit Land
>>> <https://www.academia.edu/32694583/IMAGINING_SANSKRIT_LAND_ARENA_MAGAZINE_ARTICLE>
>>>
>>> Ep1 - Imagining Sanskrit Land <https://youtu.be/jMi7tkPBbJ4>
>>>
>>> Ep 2 - Total-am <https://youtu.be/7tAp8m9RHPU>
>>>
>>> Ep 3 - Jalam ? Chillum <https://youtu.be/cLZeuCT_mwQ>
>>>
>>> Ep 4 - It's Time to get Married
>>> <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_B3un7aHEAc>
>>>
>>> A Day in our Ashram
>>> <https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=ek+din+hamaare+ashram+mein>
>>>
>>> OzHarvest <https://youtu.be/r1E-XWWBmvw>
>>>
>>> Stop animation short film of Shakuntala
>>> <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LVqBD_2P4Pg>
>>>
>>> Forced to Clean Human Waste <http://youtu.be/y3XfjbwqC_g>
>>>
>>> One of my favourite song
>>> <http://trinityroots.bandcamp.com/track/all-we-be>s
>>>
>>> The Philosophy of Cycling
>>> <http://elibrary.com.ng/UploadFiles/file0_2221.pdf>
>>>
>>> Plato's Cave
>>> <http://www.openculture.com/2011/07/orson_welles_narrates_platos_cave_allegory.html>
>>>
>>> Endangered Languages MOOC
>>> <https://www.edx.org/course/language-revival-securing-future-adelaidex-lang101x>
>>>
>>> Blackfella-Whitefella <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M_DHwp5vYBI>
>>>
>>> Triction <http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=triction>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
>>> committee)
>>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options
>>> or unsubscribe)
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Nagaraj Paturi
>>
>> Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.
>>
>>
>> BoS, MIT School of Vedic Sciences, Pune, Maharashtra
>>
>> BoS, Chinmaya Vishwavidyapeeth, Veliyanad, Kerala
>>
>> Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies
>>
>> FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of  Liberal Education,
>>
>> (Pune, Maharashtra, INDIA )
>>
>>
>>
>>
>


-- 
Nagaraj Paturi

Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.


BoS, MIT School of Vedic Sciences, Pune, Maharashtra

BoS, Chinmaya Vishwavidyapeeth, Veliyanad, Kerala

Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies

FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of  Liberal Education,

(Pune, Maharashtra, INDIA )


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From hr at ivs.edu  Mon Aug  7 11:58:02 2017
From: hr at ivs.edu (Howard Resnick)
Date: Mon, 07 Aug 17 04:58:02 -0700
Subject: [INDOLOGY] bhagwa dvaj
In-Reply-To: <CAEzwJrCmr2aT46XtaMh05W80LOBwsx8NKDn6hR7CW9wOJcd2LA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <03AF7FE8-C6B2-4A77-8646-6DF369B38899@ivs.edu>

Thank you Patrick. Apart from political fantasies, I agree that the science presented by aparently distinguished scientists is not all ?fringe fantasy.?

The philosophy of science issues here are serious, and we should analytically distinguish them from Hindutva political dreams.

Best,
Howard

> On Aug 7, 2017, at 1:13 AM, patrick mccartney via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info> wrote:
> 
> Dear Nagaraj, 
> 
> It's a good question. Please let me try and explain.
> 
> I'm an anthropologist, primarily, who is interested in the politics of imagination and the commodification of desire. I am using a dialogic utopian method to explore what the world could be for various groups. With that in mind, my remit is to suspend judgement and disbelief, and try to privilege the emic perspective.
> 
> I focus on the global wellness industry, of which yoga and ayurveda are a part. More specifically, I analyse the marketing rhetoric of the global yoga industry. I do this to understand many things, however, one thing in particular that I am increasingly interested in is the tacit links, via the Sanskrit episteme, between the ethno-nationalism of the Indian state and the desires of global yoga practitioners, which are overwhelmingly to apply yoga, as a technology, to help re-enchant disenchanted worlds. It is through the cultural capital of yoga and prestige of Sanskrit that hindutva ideology is normalised and legitimised. 
> 
> There are many ways in which global yoga practitioners come to unwittingly support the banal nationalism of hindutva. Two principal ways are through the soft hindutva of various yoga gurus, <https://lareviewofbooks.org/article/the-soft-nationalism-of-amma-indias-hugging-saint/> and the fantasies of people like David Frawley, Stephen Knapp and PN Oak. This hindutva-inspired world view permeates to deep layers of global yoga. Furthermore, the logic of the guru-disciple relationship relies on the cultivation of affect. People are taught how to feel, and not to think critically. This further creates opportunities for hindutva logic to be infused into the guru's rhetoric, normalised, and consumed by the global yoga practitioner.
> 
> Of course, all nations are metaphysical entities, and exist within social imaginary landscapes. Are you suggesting that we should ignore the fantasies of hindutvav?dins as mere pie in the sky machinations, and not take them seriously? Or should we, instead, see them as earnest post-colonial, counter-hegemonic assertions against the privilege of Eurocentric perspectives?  While it seems unlikely that as Praveen Togadia and others assert, that the world will become Hindu/Vedic by 2030-ish, and that Sanskrit will replace English, these post-colonial assertions mean something to the people saying them, especially when they are found not only in the echo chambers of Hindu supremacists, but also within the global imagination of yoga practitioners. 
> 
> Therefore, how do these seemingly disparate worlds intersect? This is particularly pertinent given that a seeming majority of global yoga practitioners consider the legitimate yogic disposition to be apolitical, which is another way in which the theo-politics of hindutva gains popularity, simply because people do not want to think about yoga AND politics, or that yoga might be involved in larger political operations. 
> 
> My fieldwork amongst global yoga practitioners leads me to assert that there are many who eagerly await a Vedic-inspired utopian ramrajya, but do not, however, really understand the implications, as what we are more or less discussing is the aspiration to create a global Vedic caliphate, which is what Ramdev asserts is the only answer to stopping ISIS. These aren't fringe fantasies, as the key note speakers who attended this conference <http://www.vedicindiafoundation.org/speakers.html> attest.
> 
> Therefore, in a nutshell, this is why I give credence to such fantasies. 
> 
> Best, 
> 
> Patrick
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On Aug 7, 2017 3:25 PM, "Nagaraj Paturi" <nagarajpaturi at gmail.com <mailto:nagarajpaturi at gmail.com>> wrote:
> Patrick,
> 
> Why do you give credence to all such fantasies and spend serious research time to work on them?
> 
> All beliefs that someone, some religion, some nation, some ideology can rule the whole world are fantasies. 
> 
> ""The Bhagwa flag has existed and guided the Vedic society right from its origin. It has inspired and has been honored by the Vedic Saints and heroes. In ancient times, the warriors used to put on saffron robes and go to the battlefield. If they are victorious, they will rule and if vanquished, they might die on the battlefield and thus go to heaven--such was the motivating force for the heroes.""
> 
> is a fantasy about the past. 
> 
> 
> 
> On Thu, Aug 3, 2017 at 9:38 AM, patrick mccartney via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info <mailto:indology at list.indology.info>> wrote:
> Dear Friends,
> 
> I'm conducting a geneological study of the bhagwa dvaj flag, and would appreciate any assistance in this matter. 
> 
> I'm reading about the significance of the flag. As I'm sure many of you are aware, it is the flag of choice for the RSS. They consider it their 'guru', and have only recently hoisted the tricolour flag at their Nagpur headquarters, after several decades of saying they never would. However, it also happens to sit upon just about every Hindu temple I've ever seen. I'm curious, then, if this could mean that every temple/ashram supports the RSS, or that the RSS has simply co-opted the flag, and interpolated their own political imagination onto the symbology inherent in the flag. 
> Either way, it is conveniently confusing, as it happens to also represent san?tana dharma, which is equated with Hinduism. But, then, I would argue that san?tana dharmic ideology rests at the core of the hindutva project. Therefore, I'm quite confused about the semiotic entanglement of this one sign, and its multiple semantic valencies. 
> 
> I ask these questions because I figure that, if I have trouble disambiguating these things, what is the chance of success for the recently minted 200-hr yoga teacher graduate, or casual yoga practitioner?
> 
> I'm writing <http://www.politicaltheology.com/blog/yoga-practitioners-and-the-unspoken-global-aspirations-of-indian-ethno-nationalism-patrick-mccartney/> these days about the entanglement of global yoga practitioners and their potentially unwitting, tacit support of hindutva ideology. As an example, Stephen Knapp, a prominent ISKCON-wallah, and head of the VFA (vedic friends association), whom some of you might be familiar with, controversially suggests the following:? <http://www.stephen-knapp.com/basic_points_about_vedic_culture_hinduism.htm>
> "The Bhagwa flag has existed and guided the Vedic society right from its origin. It has inspired and has been honored by the Vedic Saints and heroes. In ancient times, the warriors used to put on saffron robes and go to the battlefield. If they are victorious, they will rule and if vanquished, they might die on the battlefield and thus go to heaven--such was the motivating force for the heroes."
> 
> I find this appeal to a (martial) tradition somewhat perplexing. Aside from what a lot of Knapp says, this is possibly less controversial; however, for the uncritical mind, who is expected to unquestionably accept the truth claims of certain gurus, this type of triction (truth+fiction), is a prime example of how global yoga practitioners potentially come to unknowingly support a hindutva world view, which, as Ramdev explains, <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WG7k42cg2W8> seeks to create a hindutva alternative to an ISIS caliphate. This, by the way, is his solution. By creating a global, Vedic theocratic state we can apparently stop a global Salafist caliphate from succeeding...
> 
> Knapp has not responded to my question regarding the textual, historical or archaeological source of his claims. I'm wondering, then, if anyone is able to point me towards the earliest mention, perhaps, of the bhagwa dvaj, anywhere, in a primary, or secondary, text. 
> 
> Thank you. 
> 
> 
> All the best,
> 
> Patrick McCartney, PhD
> Fellow
> School of Culture, History & Language
> College of the Asia-Pacific
> The Australian National University
> Canberra, Australia, 0200
> 
> 
> Skype - psdmccartney
> Phone + Whatsapp:  +61 414 954 748 <tel:0414%20954%20748>
> Twitter - @psdmccartney
> 
> 
> bodhap?rvam calema ;-)
> 
> academia <https://anu-au.academia.edu/patrickmccartney>
> Linkedin <https://www.linkedin.com/profile/view?id=241756978&trk=nav_responsive_tab_profile>
> 
> Edanz <https://www.edanzediting.com/expert/anthropology/patrick-mccartney>
> 
> Conversation <https://theconversation.com/profiles/patrick-mccartney-phd-136054>
> 
> YogaTrade <https://yogatrade.com/resume/dr-dts7idm-anthropologist-phd-shanti-mandir-authenticity-economy-and-emotion-in-a-yoga-ashram-visiting-fellow-australian-national-university/>
> 
> Modern Yoga Research <http://www.modernyogaresearch.org/events/>
> 
> #yogabodyANU2016 symposium <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X80KxW2bb0w>? <http://chl.anu.edu.au/news-events/events/658/yoga-and-body-past-and-present-symposium?#tab>
> 
> Yoga Fundamentalism?- Part 1 <http://www.politicaltheology.com/blog/yoga-practitioners-and-the-unspoken-global-aspirations-of-indian-ethno-nationalism-patrick-mccartney/>
> 
>  <http://www.politicaltheology.com/blog/is-the-global-prestige-of-sanskrit-aiding-and-abetting-hindu-nationalists-and-supremacists-patrick-mccartney_/>
> Yoga Fundamentalism - Part 2 <http://www.politicaltheology.com/blog/is-the-global-prestige-of-sanskrit-aiding-and-abetting-hindu-nationalists-and-supremacists-patrick-mccartney_/>
> 
>  <http://oicd.net/ge/index.php/politics-beyond-yoga-mat-yoga-fundamentalism-vedic-way-life/>
> Politics beyond the yoga mat <http://oicd.net/ge/index.php/politics-beyond-yoga-mat-yoga-fundamentalism-vedic-way-life/>
> 
> The Sanitising Power of Spoken Sanskrit <https://www.academia.edu/6274287/The_sanitising_power_of_spoken_Sanskrit>
> 
> Imagining Sanskrit Land <https://www.academia.edu/32694583/IMAGINING_SANSKRIT_LAND_ARENA_MAGAZINE_ARTICLE>
> 
> Ep1 - Imagining Sanskrit Land <https://youtu.be/jMi7tkPBbJ4>
> 
> Ep 2 - Total-am <https://youtu.be/7tAp8m9RHPU>
> 
> Ep 3 - Jalam ? Chillum <https://youtu.be/cLZeuCT_mwQ>
> 
> Ep 4 - It's Time to get Married <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_B3un7aHEAc>
> 
> A Day in our Ashram <https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=ek+din+hamaare+ashram+mein>
> 
> OzHarvest <https://youtu.be/r1E-XWWBmvw>
> 
> Stop animation short film of Shakuntala? <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LVqBD_2P4Pg>
> 
> Forced to Clean Human Waste <http://youtu.be/y3XfjbwqC_g>
> 
> One of my favourite song <http://trinityroots.bandcamp.com/track/all-we-be>s
> 
> The Philosophy of Cycling <http://elibrary.com.ng/UploadFiles/file0_2221.pdf>
> 
> Plato's Cave <http://www.openculture.com/2011/07/orson_welles_narrates_platos_cave_allegory.html>
> 
> Endangered Languages MOOC <https://www.edx.org/course/language-revival-securing-future-adelaidex-lang101x>
> 
> Blackfella-Whitefella <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M_DHwp5vYBI> <http:///>
> 
> Triction <http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=triction>
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info <mailto:INDOLOGY at list.indology.info>
> indology-owner at list.indology.info <mailto:indology-owner at list.indology.info> (messages to the list's managing committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info <http://listinfo.indology.info/> (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe)
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Nagaraj Paturi
>  
> Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.
> 
> 
> BoS, MIT School of Vedic Sciences, Pune, Maharashtra
> 
> BoS, Chinmaya Vishwavidyapeeth, Veliyanad, Kerala
> 
> Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies
>  
> FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of  Liberal Education,
>  
> (Pune, Maharashtra, INDIA )
>  
>  
>  
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe)



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From sloubem at wwu.edu  Tue Aug  8 05:07:28 2017
From: sloubem at wwu.edu (Michael Slouber)
Date: Mon, 07 Aug 17 22:07:28 -0700
Subject: [INDOLOGY] New IAST keyboard layout for Linux
Message-ID: <027859d8-5baf-1532-9072-bd11f4f84f39@wwu.edu>

Dear colleagues,

Those of you who use Linux (or are considering making the switch), may 
like to know about a new keyboard layout I created for the X keyboard 
system.  It is based on, and works just like, Toshiya Unebe?s extremely 
convenient ?EasyUnicode? keyboard layout for OSX.

Details are here: 
http://www.garudam.info/sanskrit-transliteration-keyboard-on-linux/

Best regards,

Michael

?
Michael Slouber
Assistant Professor of South Asia
Liberal Studies
Western Washington University






From davidpaolo.pierdominicileao at uniroma1.it  Tue Aug  8 09:16:37 2017
From: davidpaolo.pierdominicileao at uniroma1.it (David Pierdominici)
Date: Tue, 08 Aug 17 11:16:37 +0200
Subject: [INDOLOGY] PDF scan copy
Message-ID: <DF7B7C15-63AA-4F8A-B0EE-736A6EFB10F6@uniroma1.it>

Dear Indology list members,

I am looking for a copy of Ahobala?s Vir?paks?vasantotsavacamp? (ed. by Panchamukhi, 1953); unfortunately I was not able to recover a pdf of this edition anywhere and, moreover, it seems that DLI is not working again due to copyright violation.
Thanking you in advance, my best wishes for a great summer and good work.

David Pierdominici
PhD candidate
Sapienza Universit? di Roma



-- 
___________________________________________
*Il tuo 5 diventa 1000*
Fai crescere la tua universit?
Dona il 5 per mille alla Sapienza
Codice fiscale: *80209930587*





From mailmealakendudas at rediffmail.com  Wed Aug  9 11:31:03 2017
From: mailmealakendudas at rediffmail.com (alakendu das)
Date: Wed, 09 Aug 17 11:31:03 +0000
Subject: [INDOLOGY] EMMANUEL KANT
Message-ID: <20170809113103.18558.qmail@f4mail-235-148.rediffmail.com>



  To All,

          Can anybody throw some light on any PDF copy of this book by Kant ,written in 1763-



  'One possible proof for demonstrating the existense of God'. 





                                                         ALAKENDU DAS.


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From disimone at alumni.stanford.edu  Wed Aug  9 11:47:07 2017
From: disimone at alumni.stanford.edu (Charles DiSimone)
Date: Wed, 09 Aug 17 13:47:07 +0200
Subject: [INDOLOGY] EMMANUEL KANT
In-Reply-To: <20170809113103.18558.qmail@f4mail-235-148.rediffmail.com>
Message-ID: <CADKD_ziRvFv8W0GRGEeyBYLOYUkObercy0CNO=ZvHYfprLTdkA@mail.gmail.com>

Perhaps you are referring to Immanuel Kant's Der einzig m?gliche
Beweisgrund zu einer Demonstration des Daseins Gottes (The Only Possible
Argument in Support of a Demonstration of the Existence of God), which may
be quickly found with a Google search. Here is a digitized copy:

http://users.clas.ufl.edu/burt/spaceshotsairheads/KantargumentGod.pdf

On Wed, Aug 9, 2017 at 1:31 PM, alakendu das via INDOLOGY <
indology at list.indology.info> wrote:

>
> To All,
> Can anybody throw some light on any PDF copy of this book by Kant ,written
> in 1763-
>
> 'One possible proof for demonstrating the existense of God'.
>
>
> ALAKENDU DAS.
>
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
> committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
> unsubscribe)
>



-- 
Dr. des. Charles DiSimone
Institut f?r Indologie und Tibetologie
Ludwig-Maximilians-Universit?t M?nchen


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From ondracka at ff.cuni.cz  Wed Aug  9 18:09:07 2017
From: ondracka at ff.cuni.cz (=?utf-8?Q?Lubom=C3=ADr_Ondra=C4=8Dka?=)
Date: Wed, 09 Aug 17 20:09:07 +0200
Subject: =?utf-8?Q?[INDOLOGY]_Adolf_Jan=C3=A1=C4=8Dek's_articles_on_the_Yogas=C5=ABtras?=
Message-ID: <20170809200907.33b2f10fd31ddead544bd003@ff.cuni.cz>

Dear colleagues,

thanks to my discussion with Federico Squarcini last year, I have learned that papers on the Yogas?tras written by a Czech scholar Adolf Jan??ek and published in the fifties in Archiv Orient?ln? may still be inspirational for scholars interested in the P?ta?jalayoga??stra. Since these articles are not easily available (all volumes of the journal are in the Digital Library of the Academy of Sciences of the Czech Republic, but it's a bit cumbersome to get any particular article from this depository), I have uploaded them on archive.org.

1/ The Methodical Principle in Yoga According to Pata?jali's Yoga-s?tras
Archiv Orient?ln? 19 (Dec 1951): 514?567
https://archive.org/details/JANACEK1951TheMethodicalPrincipleInYoga

2/ The 'voluntaristic' Type of Yoga in Pata?jali's Yoga-s?tras
Archiv Orient?ln? 22 (1954): 69?87
https://archive.org/details/JANACEK1954ThevoluntaristicTypeOfYoga

3/ The Meaning of pratyaya in Pata?jali's Yoga-s?tras
Archiv Orient?ln? 25 (1957): 201?260
https://archive.org/details/JANACEK1957TheMeaningOfPratyaya

4/ Two Texts of Pata?jali and a Statistical Comparison of their Vocabularies
Archiv Orient?ln? 26 (1958): 88?100
https://archive.org/details/JANEK1958TwoTextsOfPatatjali

5/ To the Problems of Indian Philosophical Texts
Archiv Orient?ln? 27 (1959): 463?475
https://archive.org/details/JANACEK1959ToTheProblemsOfIndianPhilosophicalTexts


All the best,
Lubomir

-- 
Lubom?r Ondra?ka
Department of Philosophy & Religious Studies
Faculty of Arts, Charles University
Nam. J. Palacha 2, Praha 1, 116 38
CZECH REPUBLIC





From wujastyk at gmail.com  Thu Aug 10 14:49:29 2017
From: wujastyk at gmail.com (Dominik Wujastyk)
Date: Thu, 10 Aug 17 16:49:29 +0200
Subject: =?utf-8?Q?[INDOLOGY]_Statement_and_Questions_Regarding_an_Indian_Court=E2=80=99s_Order_to_Block_archive.org_|_Internet_Archive_Blogs?=
Message-ID: <CAKdt-Cc+ebUsaBRdPk5eoaecG+09HzKQr1sVwq5P2RLiF=gC9Q@mail.gmail.com>

https://blog.archive.org/2017/08/09/statement-and-questions-regarding-an-indian-courts-order-to-block-archive-org/
Sent from Android phone


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From karp at uw.edu.pl  Fri Aug 11 08:44:24 2017
From: karp at uw.edu.pl (Artur Karp)
Date: Fri, 11 Aug 17 10:44:24 +0200
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Ancient Indian archaeologists / treasure hunters
Message-ID: <CALNcvFvZTS4sKj_+5OV3_6Z_3rthzEbtbKe+CRz+UYmfhK-XZA@mail.gmail.com>

Dear List-ists

Are you aware of any mentions of digs for hidden treasures - in ancient
Indian literature (Sanskrit, Pali, Prakrits)? One of such explorations is
described in Buddhaghosa's Sumangalavilasini, another one - in the
Mahabharata (I, 017-030).

Artur Karp (ret.)

Chair of South Asian Studies
University of Warsaw

Polska


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From nagarajpaturi at gmail.com  Fri Aug 11 09:48:46 2017
From: nagarajpaturi at gmail.com (Nagaraj Paturi)
Date: Fri, 11 Aug 17 15:18:46 +0530
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Ancient Indian archaeologists / treasure hunters
In-Reply-To: <CALNcvFvZTS4sKj_+5OV3_6Z_3rthzEbtbKe+CRz+UYmfhK-XZA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAJGj9ea2szh+CZ6DcknTDkGwNTzT6zpdO_BON=CsQ2C2gWCYFQ@mail.gmail.com>

The story of Simhaasanadvaatrims'ika can be seen as a legendified story of
such digs.

On Fri, Aug 11, 2017 at 2:14 PM, Artur Karp via INDOLOGY <
indology at list.indology.info> wrote:

> Dear List-ists
>
> Are you aware of any mentions of digs for hidden treasures - in ancient
> Indian literature (Sanskrit, Pali, Prakrits)? One of such explorations is
> described in Buddhaghosa's Sumangalavilasini, another one - in the
> Mahabharata (I, 017-030).
>
> Artur Karp (ret.)
>
> Chair of South Asian Studies
> University of Warsaw
>
> Polska
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
> committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
> unsubscribe)
>



-- 
Nagaraj Paturi

Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.


BoS, MIT School of Vedic Sciences, Pune, Maharashtra

BoS, Chinmaya Vishwavidyapeeth, Veliyanad, Kerala

Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies

FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of  Liberal Education,

(Pune, Maharashtra, INDIA )


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From rospatt at berkeley.edu  Fri Aug 11 18:43:13 2017
From: rospatt at berkeley.edu (Alexander von Rospatt)
Date: Fri, 11 Aug 17 11:43:13 -0700
Subject: [INDOLOGY] search for a tenure-track faculty position in Tamil Studies at UC Berkeley
Message-ID: <46DF956E-B774-4051-9ECC-AFC7F434D76C@berkeley.edu>

Dear Colleagues,
please take note of the below search for a tenure-track faculty position in Tamil Studies at UC Berkeley, and kindly circulate this among potential candidates for the position.

With many thanks,

Alexander von Rospatt
(Professor and acting Chair of the Department of South and Southeast Asian Studies, University of California, Berkeley)
------



The Department of South and Southeast Asian Studies, University of California, Berkeley, has been authorized to fill a tenure-track faculty position in Tamil Studies at the level of Assistant Professor.
The expected start date is July 1, 2018.

We seek candidates with native or near-native ability in written and spoken Tamil and who can ideally work with both classical and modern Tamil literary materials. Cross-disciplinary work and research knowledge of a second South or Southeast Asian language will also be highly regarded. 
Duties will include: (1) supervising graduate students and developing and teaching graduate courses reading Tamil texts/sources, undergraduate courses on South Indian literature, religion, society and
culture, as well as general service courses in the Department; (2) supervising Tamil language instruction in the department; and (3) building the profile of Tamil Studies at UC Berkeley. 
More can be learned about the Department and the campus here: http://sseas.berkeley.edu.

Minimum Basic Qualifications: Applicants must have completed all PhD (or equivalent) degree requirements except the dissertation by the time of appointment.
Additional Qualifications: Cross-disciplinary work and research knowledge of a second South or Southeast Asian language.
Preferred Qualifications: PhD or equivalent degree by date of appointment.

Required Documents: (1) Curriculum Vitae ? your most recently updated C.V; (2) Cover Letter ? including description of research plans and teaching interests; (3) Writing Sample ? one or two significant writing samples (20-30 pages); (4) Sample Syllabus/Syllabi; and (5) 3 letters of recommendation.

All letters will be treated as confidential per University of California policy and California state law. Please direct referees, including when letters are provided via a third party (i.e., dossier service or
career center), to the UC Berkeley statement on confidentiality (http://apo.berkeley.edu/evalltr.html) prior to submitting their letters.

To apply, please use the following link: https://aprecreuit/berkeley.edu/apply/JPF01421. The application deadline is November 15th, 2017. 

Applicants may direct questions to Dr. Munis D. Faruqui <faruqui at berkeley.edu>

The University of California, Berkeley is an Equal Opportunity/Affirmative Action Employer. All qualified applicants will receive consideration for employment without regard to race, color, religion, sex, sexual orientation, gender identity, national origin, disability, age, or protected veteran status. For the complete University of California nondiscrimination and affirmative action policy,
see: http://policy.ucop.edu/doc/4000376/NondiscrimAffirmAct. 
UC Berkeley is committed to addressing the family needs of faculty, including dual career couples and single parents. UC Berkeley has an excellent benefits package as well as a number of policies
and programs to support employees as they balance work and family. The University and the Department are interested in candidates who will contribute to diversity and equal opportunity in higher education through their work.




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From collinb1 at ohio.edu  Fri Aug 11 18:55:50 2017
From: collinb1 at ohio.edu (Collins, Brian)
Date: Fri, 11 Aug 17 18:55:50 +0000
Subject: =?utf-8?B?W0lORE9MT0dZXSBUcmnhuaNh4bmj4bmtacWbYWzEgWvEgXB1cnXhuaNhY2FyaXRyYQ==?=
Message-ID: <F2618257-13DF-4C4F-8FA1-2776F16022F7@ohio.edu>

Dear Indologists,

Does anyone know of an online or PDF copy of Hemacandra?s Tri?a??i?al?k?puru?acaritra either in English (Helen Johnson?s translation) or the Sanskrit edition from Bh?vnagar?

Thanks in advance,

Brian




Asst. Prof. Brian Collins
Drs. Ram and Sushila Gawande Chair in Indian Religion and Philosophy
210J Ellis Hall
Ohio University
Athens, OH 45701
740-597-2103






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From mkapstei at uchicago.edu  Fri Aug 11 20:09:07 2017
From: mkapstei at uchicago.edu (Matthew Kapstein)
Date: Fri, 11 Aug 17 20:09:07 +0000
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Ancient Indian archaeologists / treasure hunters
In-Reply-To: <CALNcvFvZTS4sKj_+5OV3_6Z_3rthzEbtbKe+CRz+UYmfhK-XZA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <82C3E42590D939418C74DD76B97DDED047C53324@xm-mbx-06-prod>

Dear Artur,

There are any number of Buddhist legends of scriptures found in ruins -- e.g., the tale of the
siddha Maitripa rediscovering the Ratnagotravibh?ga in a ruined st?pa.

The subterranean treasures guarded by n?gas and others may also be of interest here.

best,
Matthew

Matthew Kapstein
Directeur d'?tudes,
Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes

Numata Visiting Professor of Buddhist Studies,
The University of Chicago
________________________________



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From rolfheiner.koch at gmail.com  Fri Aug 11 21:00:39 2017
From: rolfheiner.koch at gmail.com (Rolf Heinrich Koch)
Date: Fri, 11 Aug 17 23:00:39 +0200
Subject: =?utf-8?B?UmU6IFtJTkRPTE9HWV0gVHJp4bmjYeG5o+G5rWnFm2FsxIFrxIFwdXJ14bmjYWNhcml0cmE=?=
In-Reply-To: <F2618257-13DF-4C4F-8FA1-2776F16022F7@ohio.edu>
Message-ID: <d57f4d05-7446-b762-d5ed-2bbcd7392195@gmail.com>

Dear Brian,

you will find both of HTr (Sanskrittest/Translation) here:

www.jainlibrary.org

Best

Heiner

Rolf Heinrich Koch


Am 11.08.2017 um 20:55 schrieb Collins, Brian via INDOLOGY:
> Dear Indologists,
>
> Does anyone know of an online or PDF copy of 
> Hemacandra?s Tri?a??i?al?k?puru?acaritra either in English (Helen 
> Johnson?s translation) or the Sanskrit edition from Bh?vnagar?
>
> Thanks in advance,
>
> Brian
>
>
>
>
> Asst. Prof. Brian Collins
> Drs. Ram and Sushila Gawande Chair in Indian Religion and Philosophy
> 210J Ellis Hall
> Ohio University
> Athens, OH 45701
> 740-597-2103
>
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe)

-- 
www.rolfheinrichkoch.wordpress.com



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From alanus1216 at yahoo.com  Fri Aug 11 22:06:38 2017
From: alanus1216 at yahoo.com (Allen Thrasher)
Date: Fri, 11 Aug 17 22:06:38 +0000
Subject: [INDOLOGY] punctuation history - possibly useful book
In-Reply-To: <1943905869.197625.1502489198743.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1943905869.197625.1502489198743@mail.yahoo.com>

I could have sworn there was a thread on the history of punctuation some months ago, though there was a thread on word-divisions, but for the life of me I can't find it in the archives and respond appropriately. ?But if there is some interest, a possibly useful, and certainly lively and interesting book, on the history of the punctuation of English is:
David CrystalMaking a Point: The Persnickety History of Engish PunctuationNew York: St. Martin's Press, 2015London: Profile Books, 2016
Crystal also deals with the history of punctuation prior to there being any form of written English, examining the punctuation of Latin largely from manuscripts from the British Isles.His main point is that there are two concerns that do not necessarily yield the same results: assistance in reading aloud, and making the meaning clear as efficiently as possible.

Allen


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From birendra176 at yahoo.com  Sat Aug 12 08:09:44 2017
From: birendra176 at yahoo.com (Birendra Nath Prasad)
Date: Sat, 12 Aug 17 08:09:44 +0000
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Request for an article on Sindh
In-Reply-To: <1171597936.432093.1502525384866.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1171597936.432093.1502525384866@mail.yahoo.com>

Respected colleagues,
May I request you to kindly share the PDF of the following paper?

Ball, Warwick. 1989. ?The Buddhists of Sind?. South Asian Studies, Vol.  5, Issue (1), pp.119-131.

The PDF may be sent to me by email.
Thanking you in advance
Birendra Nath Prasad
Assistant Professor, History Dept.
B.B. Ambedkar University, Lucknow
Email: birendra176 at yahoo.com 






From karp at uw.edu.pl  Sat Aug 12 14:30:49 2017
From: karp at uw.edu.pl (Artur Karp)
Date: Sat, 12 Aug 17 16:30:49 +0200
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Ancient Indian archaeologists / treasure hunters
In-Reply-To: <82C3E42590D939418C74DD76B97DDED047C53324@xm-mbx-06-prod>
Message-ID: <CALNcvFu_38bwzzRVy2+2rGvFfFgXV9jDmnzgG-pnarcxK02R0A@mail.gmail.com>

Thanks, a lot.

The motive of hiding and/or (re-)discovering hidden cultural values, be it
money, or texts, or relics is in itself an important research subject.

Is there any monograph devoted to it?

Best,

Artur Karp

Polska

2017-08-11 22:09 GMT+02:00 Matthew Kapstein <mkapstei at uchicago.edu>:

> Dear Artur,
>
> There are any number of Buddhist legends of scriptures found in ruins --
> e.g., the tale of the
> siddha Maitripa rediscovering the Ratnagotravibh?ga in a ruined st?pa.
>
> The subterranean treasures guarded by n?gas and others may also be of
> interest here.
>
> best,
> Matthew
>
> Matthew Kapstein
> Directeur d'?tudes,
> Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes
>
> Numata Visiting Professor of Buddhist Studies,
> The University of Chicago
> ------------------------------
>
>


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From wujastyk at gmail.com  Sat Aug 12 16:54:10 2017
From: wujastyk at gmail.com (Dominik Wujastyk)
Date: Sat, 12 Aug 17 18:54:10 +0200
Subject: [INDOLOGY] PDF scan copy
In-Reply-To: <DF7B7C15-63AA-4F8A-B0EE-736A6EFB10F6@uniroma1.it>
Message-ID: <CAKdt-Cei6Rv6jAewCb1vonN-9fwx0xBSY8nzucPJtAKv4hYEew@mail.gmail.com>

Can't find the Ahobala, but as for DLI, meanwhile there's this:
https://archive.org/details/digitallibraryindia

?
--
Professor Dominik Wujastyk <http://ualberta.academia.edu/DominikWujastyk>
?,?

Singhmar Chair in Classical Indian Society and Polity
?,?

Department of History and Classics <http://historyandclassics.ualberta.ca/>
?,?
University of Alberta, Canada
?.?

South Asia at the U of A:

?sas.ualberta.ca?
??


On 8 August 2017 at 11:16, David Pierdominici via INDOLOGY <
indology at list.indology.info> wrote:

> Dear Indology list members,
>
> I am looking for a copy of Ahobala?s Vir?paks?vasantotsavacamp? (ed. by
> Panchamukhi, 1953); unfortunately I was not able to recover a pdf of this
> edition anywhere and, moreover, it seems that DLI is not working again due
> to copyright violation.
> Thanking you in advance, my best wishes for a great summer and good work.
>
> David Pierdominici
> PhD candidate
> Sapienza Universit? di Roma
>
>
>
> --
> ___________________________________________
> *Il tuo 5 diventa 1000*
> Fai crescere la tua universit?
> Dona il 5 per mille alla Sapienza
> Codice fiscale: *80209930587*
>
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
> committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
> unsubscribe)


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From vbd203 at googlemail.com  Mon Aug 14 15:20:48 2017
From: vbd203 at googlemail.com (victor davella)
Date: Mon, 14 Aug 17 17:20:48 +0200
Subject: =?utf-8?B?W0lORE9MT0dZXSDFm8SBa2jEgXbhuZtr4bmjYXZhdCBzYW3EgXNh4bil?=
Message-ID: <CAETY2G1JzkPeNML0Vr8ojtcQd78JR70Tg1WLeD+taLxCYiXQfw@mail.gmail.com>

Dear All,

Has anyone come across ??kh?v?k?avat sam?sa? as an explanation for a
Sanskrit compound? I have encountered it in Dak?i??vartan?tha's commentary
ad Meghad?ta 76 (2.16/19 etc.) to explain ?i?j?-valaya- :

?i?j? ?i?jita?; ?i?j?vanti valay?ni ?i?j?valay?ni | ??kh?v?k?avat sam?sa?.

The elision of a possessive suffix (matublopa) is known from the
Mah?bh??ya, but I am not familiar with the example ??kh?v?k?a.  Please
reply on-list so that everyone may benefit from the exchange.

Many thanks in advance.

Victor


Victor B. D'Avella
Wissenschaftlicher Mitarbeiter
Universit?t Hamburg


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From mmdesh at umich.edu  Mon Aug 14 15:50:31 2017
From: mmdesh at umich.edu (Madhav Deshpande)
Date: Mon, 14 Aug 17 08:50:31 -0700
Subject: =?utf-8?B?UmU6IFtJTkRPTE9HWV0gxZvEgWtoxIF24bmba+G5o2F2YXQgc2FtxIFzYeG4pQ==?=
In-Reply-To: <CAETY2G1JzkPeNML0Vr8ojtcQd78JR70Tg1WLeD+taLxCYiXQfw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAB3-dzfNMZKz-fH_Uv2zaJ3C30tMS9reOcAtwaCe4aM874f3KA@mail.gmail.com>

Hello Victor,

     I have not seen ??kh?vr?k?a as an example in a Sanskrit grammatical
work or in Sanskrit literature.  However, I see this word used in Marathi
and Hindi texts dealing with genealogical trees and describing the ??kh?s
of the Veda.  The explanation by the commentator on Meghad?ta seems
appropriate: ?i?j?vanti valay?ni as a parallel to ??kh?v?n vr?k?a?.

Madhav Deshpande

On Mon, Aug 14, 2017 at 8:20 AM, victor davella via INDOLOGY <
indology at list.indology.info> wrote:

> Dear All,
>
> Has anyone come across ??kh?v?k?avat sam?sa? as an explanation for a
> Sanskrit compound? I have encountered it in Dak?i??vartan?tha's commentary
> ad Meghad?ta 76 (2.16/19 etc.) to explain ?i?j?-valaya- :
>
> ?i?j? ?i?jita?; ?i?j?vanti valay?ni ?i?j?valay?ni | ??kh?v?k?avat sam?sa?.
>
> The elision of a possessive suffix (matublopa) is known from the
> Mah?bh??ya, but I am not familiar with the example ??kh?v?k?a.  Please
> reply on-list so that everyone may benefit from the exchange.
>
> Many thanks in advance.
>
> Victor
>
>
> Victor B. D'Avella
> Wissenschaftlicher Mitarbeiter
> Universit?t Hamburg
>
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
> committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
> unsubscribe)
>


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From shyamr at yorku.ca  Wed Aug 16 02:44:14 2017
From: shyamr at yorku.ca (Shyam Ranganathan)
Date: Tue, 15 Aug 17 22:44:14 -0400
Subject: [INDOLOGY] sex and gender
Message-ID: <c6582249-8903-6b47-4808-0484e7d66221@yorku.ca>

Dear all,

This is a question from a colleague who is not on the list. This 
colleague teaches a course on Sex and Gender theory and is interested in 
articles that addresses the topic from differing cultural vantages. I 
was asked about what was available on the topic that discusses the issue 
from the perspective of the Indian tradition.  I didn't know what to 
say. I'd be grateful for any suggestions.

Thanks,

Shyam


-- 

ShyamRanganathan

MA,MA, PhD

Department of Philosophy

York University, Toronto

shyam-ranganathan.info <http://shyam-ranganathan.info/>

/The Bloomsbury Research Handbook of Indian Ethics 
<http://www.bloomsbury.com/uk/the-bloomsbury-research-handbook-of-indian-ethics-9781472587770/>/

/Pata?jali`s Yoga S?tras 
<http://penguin.co.in/book/classics/patanjalis-yoga-sutra/>/ (Translation, 
Edition and Commentary)

/Translating Evaluative Discourse: The Semantics of Thick and Thin 
Concepts <https://philpapers.org/rec/SHYTED>/

Full List, Publications <https://philpapers.org/s/shyam%20ranganathan>



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From adheesh1 at gmail.com  Wed Aug 16 07:23:52 2017
From: adheesh1 at gmail.com (adheesh sathaye)
Date: Wed, 16 Aug 17 00:23:52 -0700
Subject: [INDOLOGY] 17th World Sanskrit Conference: Second Circular
Message-ID: <2597A076-3B51-42EE-B073-C2E66E9F1E3E@gmail.com>

17th World Sanskrit Conference:
Second Circular
------------------------------------------------------------

Dear Colleagues,

On this Indian Independence Day, we are delighted to release the Second Circular for the 17th World Sanskrit Conference, to be held in Vancouver, BC, Canada, July 9-13, 2018.

The printable circular can be downloaded here: https://wsc.ubcsanskrit.ca/wp-content/uploads/2017/08/WSC-2018-second-circular.pdf (1.8MB, PDF file).

This second release contains new information about the conference's academic program, including announcements of the plenary speakers, public events, and special panels. You will also find important practical information about registration, accommodations, travel/visa arrangements, and the conference excursions to take place on July 14, 2018. You will also find an updated list of key dates and deadlines to remember, and a call for individual papers.

As a reminder: individual paper abstracts are due October 1, 2017, and may be submitted through the online submissions portal: https://wsc.ubcsanskrit.ca/ocs/wsc/2018/schedConf/cfp.

For further information, please contact the WSC 2018 Secretariat at wsc2018 at ubcsanskrit.ca (mailto:wsc2018 at ubcsanskrit.ca) , and be sure always to consult the official conference website, wsc.ubcsanskrit.ca, for the most up-to-date information.

With all best wishes,

?
Dr. Adheesh Sathaye
Associate Professor of Sanskrit Literature and South Asian Folklore
Dept. of Asian Studies || University of British Columbia
408-1871 West Mall || Vancouver, BC CANADA V6T1Z2
adheesh at mail.ubc.ca || +1.604.822.5188

Lead Organizer, 17th World Sanskrit Conference, Vancouver, Canada, July 9-13, 2018
http://wsc.ubcsanskrit.ca || wsc2018 at ubcsanskrit.ca
|| ????? ??????? ???????? ?? 
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From nakeerthi at gmail.com  Wed Aug 16 08:46:35 2017
From: nakeerthi at gmail.com (naresh keerthi)
Date: Wed, 16 Aug 17 14:16:35 +0530
Subject: [INDOLOGY]  sex and gender
Message-ID: <CACcR+FAfU_-W=sOC_-WiRtDR4=-2b1+02ibgMUw=gdWCkOUoKQ@mail.gmail.com>

Dear Shyam:

 The following may be of interest to your friend. Ouseparambil discusses
biological and grammatical gender as considered in the *Mah**?**bh**??**ya,
V**?**kyapad**?**ya* and other grammatical treatises in Sanskrit.  I don?t
have a copy at hand to give more details (publisher etc.), but I remember
that it was published privately by the author.  A useful synopsis of the
discussion over grammatical gender (??str?ya li?ga) can also be found in
the introduction of Madhav Deshpande?s ?The meaning of nouns?.



Padmanabh Jaini?s important compilation of material related to the debates
over possibility of salvation for ?female?? souls is a useful source for
some jaina discussions.



Tryambaka-yajvan?s  (Sanskrit) Str?dharma-paddhati is a 18th century
instruction manual for good wives; it is available in translation as ?The
Perfect Wife?; and Sa?ci Honnamma?s (Kannada ) Hadibadeya Dharma (17th
cent.) is a similar text, with rare subversive moments. Blake Michael?s
essay is helpful to get a picture of the Virasaiva doctrinal attitude
towards women , and Mullatti?s discussion of the same topic is informative
(if at all), rather than insightful.


I giver fuller citations below.



Best,


Naresh Keerthi

 Assistant Professor,

Literature and Linguistics,

Chinmaya Vishvavidyapeeth, Kochi



Doctoral Scholar

National Institute of Advanced Studies,

IISc Campus, Bangalore

----------------------------------------------------------------------------


Deshpande, Madhav M. *The meaning of nouns: Semantic theory in classical
and medieval India*. Vol. 13. Springer Science & Business Media, 2012.



Jaini, Padmanabh S. *Gender and salvation: Jaina debates on the spiritual
liberation of women*. Univ of California Press, 1991.



Leslie.J. (trans.)* The perfect wife (Stridharmapaddhati) of
Tryambakayajvan*. Penguin Books India, 1995.



Michael, R. Blake. "Women of the ??nyasa?p?dane: Housewives and Saints in
V?ra?aivism." *Journal of the American Oriental Society* (1983): 361-368.



Mullatti, Leela. *The Bhakti movement and the status of women: A case study
of Virasaivism*. New Delhi: Abhinav Publications, 1989.



Ouseparambil, Philosophy of Gender in Sanskrit and Indo-European. (Based on
a 1980 thesis submitted to SVU Tirupati)

----------------------
----------------------

Message: 1

Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2017 22:44:14 -0400

From: Shyam Ranganathan <shyamr at yorku.ca>

To: indology at list.indology.info

Subject: [INDOLOGY] sex and gender

Message-ID: <c6582249-8903-6b47-4808-0484e7d66221 at yorku.ca>

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"; Format="flowed"


Dear all,

This is a question from a colleague who is not on the list. This

colleague teaches a course on Sex and Gender theory and is interested in

articles that addresses the topic from differing cultural vantages. I

was asked about what was available on the topic that discusses the issue

from the perspective of the Indian tradition.  I didn't know what to

say. I'd be grateful for any suggestions.


Thanks,

Shyam


<https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail>
Virus-free.
www.avast.com
<https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail>
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From ondracka at ff.cuni.cz  Wed Aug 16 09:22:06 2017
From: ondracka at ff.cuni.cz (=?utf-8?Q?Lubom=C3=ADr_Ondra=C4=8Dka?=)
Date: Wed, 16 Aug 17 11:22:06 +0200
Subject: [INDOLOGY] sex and gender
In-Reply-To: <c6582249-8903-6b47-4808-0484e7d66221@yorku.ca>
Message-ID: <20170816112206.e1ad4c15cfebcdaa62c20ed8@ff.cuni.cz>

Dear Shyam,

in such a case, a normal starting point would be any standard reference work. I would recommend e.g. Brill's Encyclopedia of Hinduism. The main article on this topic, Karen Pechilis' entry "Gender" (vol. 4, pp. 788-805), has an extensive and up-to-date bibliography. Plus this theme is discussed in several other entries in this Encyclopedia (they are easily to be found using an index).

Best,
Lubomir



On Tue, 15 Aug 2017 22:44:14 -0400
Shyam Ranganathan via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info> wrote:

> Dear all,
> 
> This is a question from a colleague who is not on the list. This 
> colleague teaches a course on Sex and Gender theory and is interested in 
> articles that addresses the topic from differing cultural vantages. I 
> was asked about what was available on the topic that discusses the issue 
> from the perspective of the Indian tradition.  I didn't know what to 
> say. I'd be grateful for any suggestions.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Shyam
> 
> 
> -- 
> 
> ShyamRanganathan
> 
> MA,MA, PhD
> 
> Department of Philosophy
> 
> York University, Toronto
> 
> shyam-ranganathan.info <http://shyam-ranganathan.info/>
> 
> /The Bloomsbury Research Handbook of Indian Ethics 
> <http://www.bloomsbury.com/uk/the-bloomsbury-research-handbook-of-indian-ethics-9781472587770/>/
> 
> /Pata?jali`s Yoga S?tras 
> <http://penguin.co.in/book/classics/patanjalis-yoga-sutra/>/ (Translation, 
> Edition and Commentary)
> 
> /Translating Evaluative Discourse: The Semantics of Thick and Thin 
> Concepts <https://philpapers.org/rec/SHYTED>/
> 
> Full List, Publications <https://philpapers.org/s/shyam%20ranganathan>
> 





From nagarajpaturi at gmail.com  Wed Aug 16 10:28:14 2017
From: nagarajpaturi at gmail.com (Nagaraj Paturi)
Date: Wed, 16 Aug 17 15:58:14 +0530
Subject: [INDOLOGY] sex and gender
In-Reply-To: <20170816112206.e1ad4c15cfebcdaa62c20ed8@ff.cuni.cz>
Message-ID: <CAJGj9eayLjG2xT5_LXHVnE6KaBykXpOEHbc9ecYQb5E9gGWbSw@mail.gmail.com>

This is a report published in another list:

Prof *Bharat Gupt*, a classicist and dharma shastra scholar gave a talk at
the Habitat Centre on Nov 25 on "Hindu View of Homosexuality." He examined
the issue along with a fellow speaker and discussant Dr. Come Carpentier.
He observed that talking about the Rights of the Homosexual/Gay individuals
seems to be one of the major agendas of social reforms in India today. Many
people think that ancient Hindu ideas were entirely compatible with the
views of modern European and American notions.

    Therefore it was imperative that one goes to see the classical texts to
collect evidence on the status and life of homoerotic individuals in
ancient India. One hears all the time, he said,  the usual sentiment that
as Hinduism is a very tolerant culture, that it was totally open
homosexuality and that it was more modern than the moderns. Many people
argue, like the scholars of the Hare Krishna order, that as Hinduism
believes that every human being is part of Supreme Being Brahma,
homosexuals cannot be considered as beings of lower category. They also
think, with out any evidence,  that in the Vedic age, homosexuals were
fully integrated into social and monastic orders. Prof Guptsaid that most
of these sentiments are uninformed.

    Talking about the textual evidence, Prof Gupt mentioned that the
*KAMASUTRA* of Vatsyayana, does define a third order of humans called
the *'tritiiyaa
prakriti'* or third nature. This third nature persons are of two kinds, one
of the female kind and the other of the male sort *("dvividhaa
tritiityaaprkritih, striiruupinii* *purusharuupinii ca."* 2.9.1).
Vatsyayana goes on to say that "she", who behaves like a woman, is to be
employed for oral sex ("*tasyaa vadane jaganakarma tadauparisht.akamm
aachakshate"* 2.9.3). She was a paid sex-worker like a courtesan (*'vaishyaavat
charitam prakaashayet'* 2.9.5) . For the male kind who has the desire for
males but who cannot make her nature very evident, 'he' should take to the
profession of massage-giver and thus coming into contact with males satisfy
them through oral sex (2.9.6-10). In this context the act of *auparisht.aka* is
described in detail in the *Kamasutra*.

    The ancient Hindu society, as is evident here, did not consider the
homosexuals as perverts or sinners. As the term, *tritiiya-prakriti* or
third nature describes them, they are being themselves, they are being
natural. This is the primary difference between the Christian and the Hindu
attitude. Christianity did not accept the third nature and hence imposed a
punishment on their activities.

    For the Hindu social order the homoerotic were not expected to follow
the heterosexual norms of behaviour. So they cannot be blamed for being
what they are. And for this reason, accepting their nature, they were
not excommunicated or purged from human societies. They had to be given a
place in it and they were to be protected and prevented from harm by the
State. The *Arthashastra *prescribes a fine for those who persecuted a
homoerotic person (3.18.4) and it does not prohibits making of eunuchs
even  in the conquered population by a king by castrating captured males of
the vanquished (13.5.13). Thus Hindu society accepted the third nature of
persons who were born with it and did not want to replicate them for any
purpose of social engineering. Prof Gupt said that Christians promoted
homosexuals to practice religious castration and Muslims profusely
castrated the vanquished populations to create classes of menial and
warrior slaves. Dr. Come Carpentier pointed out that modern corporations
want to promote homoeroticism as homosexuals not having the burden of
families are great consumerists and hence great customers.

    While accepting the third nature persons, the ancient Hindus gave them
a special place in the social order. They were designated to be part of the
class of sex-workers and performers of music and dance. As till around the
10 century prostitution was a legal profession, taxed and protected by the
State and enshrined as duty of the king in the dharmashastra texts, the
homoerotics as part of the class of courtesans, musicians, dancers and
performers had the legal protection and their incomes and their sustenance
ensured. This position was certainly not respectable and was disadvantaged,
as it was of a lower category. In fact, it was out of the *varna* order or
*varnabaahya*. But they also had the freedom/advantage of not having any
obligations of adopting/ raising any children or performing the rituals for
ancestor worship which was a major obligation for the *varna* Hindus.
Difficult for us to imagine today, it was a free life in a major way.

    Prof Gupt pointed out that ancient Hindu society envisaged marriage
as primarily devoted to procreation and raising of able and educated
individuals who would contribute to society by performing duties to living
and the ancestors. While pleasure (*rati*) was one aspect of sexuality,
*dharma* (obligations) and *artha* (commerce) and moksha (liberation) were
the other three. As the kinnars were not capable of doing obligations they
were made into a special class and given a *jati* or guild. It may also be
pointed out that many homoerotics, impotents or sperm-count deficient
persons continued to be part of usual varnas and jatis. Ways were found to
provide them heirs one method being niyoga.

        Coming to the present day situation, Prof Gupt said that historical
developments have jumbled up the ancient solution. The Islamic intervention
in the medieval period altered the status and social acceptability of the
homoerotic class. The performing arts of theatre and dance were now taboo
in urban life and prostitution lost its legal and respectable status though
still preserving itself as a repository of music and
dance. However, homoerotics had a much greater employment in harems of
Sultans and Rajas and a connection with espionage as of yore.

    It is the British who delivered the stroke of grace for the
homoerotics. The Biblical and Christian prejudice against sodomy turned the
kinnars of India into criminals. It delegitimized the profession they had
earlier and prevented them from taking to a new one. As Indians have been
too slow to alter the Criminal Procedure Code, the section stating
punishment for homoerotic contact has not been still eliminated from Indian
Law. It should be soon done away with the traditional freedom restored. But
the dismemberment of these people from social order created by the British
cannot be restored so easily. It would take some serious research to find
out what are they now tending towards as professions. At a cursory glance
one may say they are to be found a lot in fashion and film industry.

    Prof Gupt, then commented upon the contentious issue seizing the arena
of debate, whether gay marriage should be legalized or not. He expressed
his candid opinion that while gay cohabitation should not be illegal,
persecuted or even frowned upon, giving the same rights to gaycohabiters as
to the married heterosexuals couples is not advisable. Some difference
between gay partnership and heterosexual marriage is necessary. He argued
that children adopted by gays are very likely going to acquire a gay syndrome.
This is going to be unhealthy for the institution of family which is
already under many threats and is almost on the verge of extinction in
Europe and America.

    Dr. Come Carpentier made the most revealing suggestion that Western
fascination with homoeroticism is based on consumerism. Under the garb of
providing equality the same right lobby is going to create greater
instability as gay marriages do not hold any particular assurances of
stability. He agreed that adopted children of gays are very likely to
be gay and
thus we create unnatural gays. Putin has explicitly stated that Russia
under a population decline and they need more children which gay marriages
are not going to provide. Dr.Carpentier said, that gays are asking asking
for unrestricted cohabitation, then property inheritance and finally all
the parity with non-gay marriage.

    The talk was followed by a very animated and prolonged discussion. Many
in the audience believed that there should be no discrimination and as
increasing the population was no longer a necessity in the modern
world, gay marriages
are in no way detrimental to society while others thought them bad for the
instition named as family.


On Wed, Aug 16, 2017 at 2:52 PM, Lubom?r Ondra?ka via INDOLOGY <
indology at list.indology.info> wrote:

> Dear Shyam,
>
> in such a case, a normal starting point would be any standard reference
> work. I would recommend e.g. Brill's Encyclopedia of Hinduism. The main
> article on this topic, Karen Pechilis' entry "Gender" (vol. 4, pp.
> 788-805), has an extensive and up-to-date bibliography. Plus this theme is
> discussed in several other entries in this Encyclopedia (they are easily to
> be found using an index).
>
> Best,
> Lubomir
>
>
>
> On Tue, 15 Aug 2017 22:44:14 -0400
> Shyam Ranganathan via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info> wrote:
>
> > Dear all,
> >
> > This is a question from a colleague who is not on the list. This
> > colleague teaches a course on Sex and Gender theory and is interested in
> > articles that addresses the topic from differing cultural vantages. I
> > was asked about what was available on the topic that discusses the issue
> > from the perspective of the Indian tradition.  I didn't know what to
> > say. I'd be grateful for any suggestions.
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Shyam
> >
> >
> > --
> >
> > ShyamRanganathan
> >
> > MA,MA, PhD
> >
> > Department of Philosophy
> >
> > York University, Toronto
> >
> > shyam-ranganathan.info <http://shyam-ranganathan.info/>
> >
> > /The Bloomsbury Research Handbook of Indian Ethics
> > <http://www.bloomsbury.com/uk/the-bloomsbury-research-
> handbook-of-indian-ethics-9781472587770/>/
> >
> > /Pata?jali`s Yoga S?tras
> > <http://penguin.co.in/book/classics/patanjalis-yoga-sutra/>/
> (Translation,
> > Edition and Commentary)
> >
> > /Translating Evaluative Discourse: The Semantics of Thick and Thin
> > Concepts <https://philpapers.org/rec/SHYTED>/
> >
> > Full List, Publications <https://philpapers.org/s/shyam%20ranganathan>
> >
>
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
> committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
> unsubscribe)




-- 
Nagaraj Paturi

Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.


BoS, MIT School of Vedic Sciences, Pune, Maharashtra

BoS, Chinmaya Vishwavidyapeeth, Veliyanad, Kerala

Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies

FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of  Liberal Education,

(Pune, Maharashtra, INDIA )


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From dermot at grevatt.force9.co.uk  Wed Aug 16 12:10:37 2017
From: dermot at grevatt.force9.co.uk (dermot at grevatt.force9.co.uk)
Date: Wed, 16 Aug 17 12:10:37 +0000
Subject: [INDOLOGY] sex and gender
In-Reply-To: <c6582249-8903-6b47-4808-0484e7d66221@yorku.ca>
Message-ID: <5994282D.12229.D248B7@dermot.grevatt.force9.co.uk>

Dear Shyam,

Here's a couple of references from the journal Religions of South Asia (RoSA), of which I'm 
one of the editors:

Saswati Sengupta and Sharmila Purkayastha: "Of Famines and Females: The Politics of 
Laksmi Bratakathas of Bengal"  RoSA 10.2 (2016) pp. 172-192. (gender politics, including 
role of religion in oppressing women, and of women in maintaining religion)

Ruth Vanita: "Full of God: Ashtavakra and ideas of justice in Hindu texts" RoSA 3.2 (2009) 
pp. 167-181. (involves female-to-female impregnation and other gender-bending 
mythological events)

Also;

Alf Hiltebeitel & Kathleen M. Erndl (ed.) Is the goddess a feminist? the politics of South Asian 
goddesses. New York University Press, 2000

I may think of more later, but I'm sure others will know these and many more.

Dermot

On 15 Aug 2017 at 22:44, Shyam Ranganathan via INDOLOGY wrote:

Dear all,
This is a question from a colleague who is not on the list. This colleague teaches a course on 
Sex and Gender theory and is interested in articles that addresses the topic from differing 
cultural vantages. I was asked about what was available on the topic that discusses the issue 
from the perspective of the Indian tradition. I didn't know what to say. I'd be grateful for any 
suggestions.
Thanks,
Shyam

--
Shyam Ranganathan
MA,MA, PhD
Department of Philosophy
York University, Toronto
shyam-ranganathan.info 
The Bloomsbury Research Handbook of Indian Ethics
Pata?jali`s Yoga Sutras (Translation, Edition and Commentary)
Translating Evaluative Discourse: The Semantics of Thick and Thin 
Concepts
Full List, Publications

-- 
Dermot Killingley
9, Rectory Drive,
Gosforth,
Newcastle upon Tyne NE3 1XT
Phone (0191) 285 8053



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From nagarajpaturi at gmail.com  Wed Aug 16 12:34:30 2017
From: nagarajpaturi at gmail.com (Nagaraj Paturi)
Date: Wed, 16 Aug 17 18:04:30 +0530
Subject: [INDOLOGY] sex and gender
In-Reply-To: <5994282D.12229.D248B7@dermot.grevatt.force9.co.uk>
Message-ID: <CAJGj9eaWNLZTxbYrKOT+_QjFhDJm5vZa6wE61xEMzhdsec0HQw@mail.gmail.com>

I could not read the article

Ouseparambil, Philosophy of Gender in Sanskrit and Indo-European. (Based on
a 1980 thesis submitted to SVU Tirupati)

'Gender' as a linguistic aspect of languages like Sanskrit is different
from the contemporary sociological issue of 'gender'.

The distinction of grammatical 'gender' of words from the sex of the
entities (not limited to human beings nor to the animate) denoted by those
words is different from the distinction of the sociological/political
category of 'gender' of human beings from the biological category of 'sex'
of human beings.

On Wed, Aug 16, 2017 at 5:40 PM, Dermot Killingley via INDOLOGY <
indology at list.indology.info> wrote:

> Dear Shyam,
>
> Here's a couple of references from the journal *Religions of South Asia
> (RoSA)*, of which I'm one of the editors:
>
> Saswati Sengupta and Sharmila Purkayastha: "Of Famines and Females: The
> Politics of Laksmi Bratakathas of Bengal"  *RoSA* 10.2 (2016) pp.
> 172-192. (gender politics, including role of religion in oppressing women,
> and of women in maintaining religion)
>
> Ruth Vanita: "Full of God: Ashtavakra and ideas of justice in Hindu texts"
> *RoSA* 3.2 (2009) pp. 167-181. (involves female-to-female impregnation
> and other gender-bending mythological events)
>
> Also;
>
> Alf Hiltebeitel & Kathleen M. Erndl (ed.) *Is the goddess a feminist? the
> politics of South Asian goddesses. *New York University Press, 2000
>
> I may think of more later, but I'm sure others will know these and many
> more.
>
> Dermot
>
> On 15 Aug 2017 at 22:44, Shyam Ranganathan via INDOLOGY wrote:
>
> Dear all,
> This is a question from a colleague who is not on the list. This colleague
> teaches a course on Sex and Gender theory and is interested in articles
> that addresses the topic from differing cultural vantages. I was asked
> about what was available on the topic that discusses the issue from the
> perspective of the Indian tradition. I didn't know what to say. I'd be
> grateful for any suggestions.
>
> Thanks,
> Shyam
>
> --
> Shyam Ranganathan
> MA,MA, PhD
> Department of Philosophy
> York University, Toronto
> *shyam-ranganathan.info * <http://shyam-ranganathan.info/>
> *The Bloomsbury Research Handbook of Indian Ethics*
> <http://www.bloomsbury.com/uk/the-bloomsbury-research-handbook-of-indian-ethics-9781472587770/>
> *Pata?jali`s Yoga S?tras*
> <http://penguin.co.in/book/classics/patanjalis-yoga-sutra/> (Translation,
> Edition and Commentary)
> *Translating Evaluative Discourse: The Semantics of Thick and Thin
> Concepts* <https://philpapers.org/rec/SHYTED>
> *Full List, Publications* <https://philpapers.org/s/shyam%20ranganathan>
>
> --
> Dermot Killingley
> 9, Rectory Drive,
> Gosforth,
> Newcastle upon Tyne NE3 1XT
> Phone (0191) 285 8053
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
> committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
> unsubscribe)
>



-- 
Nagaraj Paturi

Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.


BoS, MIT School of Vedic Sciences, Pune, Maharashtra

BoS, Chinmaya Vishwavidyapeeth, Veliyanad, Kerala

Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies

FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of  Liberal Education,

(Pune, Maharashtra, INDIA )


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From georges.pinault at wanadoo.fr  Wed Aug 16 14:39:07 2017
From: georges.pinault at wanadoo.fr (Georges PINAULT)
Date: Wed, 16 Aug 17 16:39:07 +0200
Subject: [INDOLOGY] sex and gender
In-Reply-To: <20170816112206.e1ad4c15cfebcdaa62c20ed8@ff.cuni.cz>
Message-ID: <1732044107.6444.1502894347551.JavaMail.www@wwinf1n11>

Dear All. ? In addition to this reference to Brill's Encyclopedia of Hinduism, I may recommend specifically the two following books (which are most probably part of the bibliography of BEH): Kevin McGrath, Stri. Women in Epic Mah?bh?rata, 2009, and, for the Vedic period,? St. W. Jamison, Sacrificed Wife/Sacrificer's Wife, Oxford University Press, 1996.
Best regards, ?? Georges-Jean Pinault?
?
?
?
?
> Message du 16/08/17 11:23> De : "Lubom?r Ondra?ka via INDOLOGY" > A : "Shyam Ranganathan" > Copie ? : "Shyam Ranganathan via INDOLOGY" > Objet : Re: [INDOLOGY] sex and gender> > Dear Shyam, in such a case, a normal starting point would be any standard reference work. I would recommend e.g. Brill's Encyclopedia of Hinduism. The main article on this topic, Karen Pechilis' entry "Gender" (vol. 4, pp. 788-805), has an extensive and up-to-date bibliography. Plus this theme is discussed in several other entries in this Encyclopedia (they are easily to be found using an index). Best, Lubomir On Tue, 15 Aug 2017 22:44:14 -0400 Shyam Ranganathan via INDOLOGY  wrote: > Dear all, > > This is a question from a colleague who is not on the list. This > colleague teaches a course on Sex and Gender theory and is interested in > articles that addresses the topic from differing cultural vantages. I > was asked about what was available on the topic that discusses the issue > from the perspective of the Indian tradition. I didn't know what to > say. I'd be grateful for any suggestions. > > Thanks, > > Shyam > > > -- > > ShyamRanganathan > > MA,MA, PhD > > Department of Philosophy > > York University, Toronto > > shyam-ranganathan.info  > > /The Bloomsbury Research Handbook of Indian Ethics > / > > /Pata?jali`s Yoga S?tras > / (Translation, > Edition and Commentary) > > /Translating Evaluative Discourse: The Semantics of Thick and Thin > Concepts / > > Full List, Publications  > _______________________________________________ INDOLOGY mailing list INDOLOGY at list.indology.info indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe)


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From tcoleman at coloradocollege.edu  Wed Aug 16 15:26:10 2017
From: tcoleman at coloradocollege.edu (Tracy Coleman)
Date: Wed, 16 Aug 17 15:26:10 +0000
Subject: [INDOLOGY] sex and gender
In-Reply-To: <20170816112206.e1ad4c15cfebcdaa62c20ed8@ff.cuni.cz>
Message-ID: <76099387-5275-4AA5-8584-BDDD236F2506@coloradocollege.edu>

There is also an entry in Oxford Bibliographies entitled Gender and Sexuality<http://www.oxfordbibliographies.com/view/document/obo-9780195399318/obo-9780195399318-0157.xml>
by Anna Pokazanyeva that is an excellent resource if your colleague has access to that site.


Sent from my iPad

On Aug 16, 2017, at 3:23 AM, Lubom?r Ondra?ka via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info<mailto:indology at list.indology.info>> wrote:

Dear Shyam,

in such a case, a normal starting point would be any standard reference work. I would recommend e.g. Brill's Encyclopedia of Hinduism. The main article on this topic, Karen Pechilis' entry "Gender" (vol. 4, pp. 788-805), has an extensive and up-to-date bibliography. Plus this theme is discussed in several other entries in this Encyclopedia (they are easily to be found using an index).

Best,
Lubomir



On Tue, 15 Aug 2017 22:44:14 -0400
Shyam Ranganathan via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info<mailto:indology at list.indology.info>> wrote:

Dear all,

This is a question from a colleague who is not on the list. This
colleague teaches a course on Sex and Gender theory and is interested in
articles that addresses the topic from differing cultural vantages. I
was asked about what was available on the topic that discusses the issue
from the perspective of the Indian tradition.  I didn't know what to
say. I'd be grateful for any suggestions.

Thanks,

Shyam


--

ShyamRanganathan

MA,MA, PhD

Department of Philosophy

York University, Toronto

shyam-ranganathan.info<http://shyam-ranganathan.info> <http://shyam-ranganathan.info/>

/The Bloomsbury Research Handbook of Indian Ethics
<http://www.bloomsbury.com/uk/the-bloomsbury-research-handbook-of-indian-ethics-9781472587770/>/

/Pata?jali`s Yoga S?tras
<http://penguin.co.in/book/classics/patanjalis-yoga-sutra/>/ (Translation,
Edition and Commentary)

/Translating Evaluative Discourse: The Semantics of Thick and Thin
Concepts <https://philpapers.org/rec/SHYTED>/

Full List, Publications <https://philpapers.org/s/shyam%20ranganathan>


_______________________________________________
INDOLOGY mailing list
INDOLOGY at list.indology.info<mailto:INDOLOGY at list.indology.info>
indology-owner at list.indology.info<mailto:indology-owner at list.indology.info> (messages to the list's managing committee)
http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe)


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From krishnaprasadah.g at gmail.com  Wed Aug 16 17:41:33 2017
From: krishnaprasadah.g at gmail.com (Krishnaprasad G)
Date: Wed, 16 Aug 17 23:11:33 +0530
Subject: [INDOLOGY] The Date of Kalidasa R N Apte PDF request
In-Reply-To: <CAODNnZhZkPQm7sqhbTo50yAug1vDEwoAK_fMUPxBfp5yTMjXUQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAODNnZgNzO776N56CB9D7RPqRZbbeaTu47Xwgxb+tQ8xH35-Rw@mail.gmail.com>

Dear list
I am unable to find the book The Date of Kalidasa by Raghunath Narayan
Apte. Bombay 1896
I appreciate if any of the scholars could send the same


Krishna Prasad


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From nagarajpaturi at gmail.com  Wed Aug 16 19:17:58 2017
From: nagarajpaturi at gmail.com (Nagaraj Paturi)
Date: Thu, 17 Aug 17 00:47:58 +0530
Subject: [INDOLOGY] sex and gender
In-Reply-To: <76099387-5275-4AA5-8584-BDDD236F2506@coloradocollege.edu>
Message-ID: <CAJGj9eaBcTtakV4fnvvT5WNeq2OS6SjE43iiMb9tnpzk_ZCp-Q@mail.gmail.com>

The first of the known Telugu Kavyas 'Sreemadaandhramahaabhaaratamu'
written by the 'Aadikavi' of Telugu Nannaya begins with the  following
mangalas'loka:


????????????????????? ???? ??????????????? ??
??????? ????????????????????? ??????????????????????
?? ??????????????????????????????????? ???????
????????? ?????????????????????????????????????

Anvaya:

?? ?????????????? ??????????? ???????????????????????????? ???????????????
?????????????? ????? ???? ??????? ???????????????????? ??????? ?????? ??
????? ?????????  ?? ??????? ??????? ?

The triad of Persons (the trimoorti ), embodiments of the three Vedas,
VishNu, Brahma and Shiva, who  having Lakshmi Saraswati and Parvati
eternally in their chest, mouth and body respectively , bestow the
existence (similar to their own) that is born of the communion of the
masculine and feminine (principles) to the worlds (too)  , (those three) that
get worshipped by suras , may they be there for our well being.



On Wed, Aug 16, 2017 at 8:56 PM, Tracy Coleman via INDOLOGY <
indology at list.indology.info> wrote:

> There is also an entry in Oxford Bibliographies entitled Gender and
> Sexuality
> <http://www.oxfordbibliographies.com/view/document/obo-9780195399318/obo-9780195399318-0157.xml>
> by Anna Pokazanyeva that is an excellent resource if your colleague has
> access to that site.
>
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
> On Aug 16, 2017, at 3:23 AM, Lubom?r Ondra?ka via INDOLOGY <
> indology at list.indology.info> wrote:
>
> Dear Shyam,
>
> in such a case, a normal starting point would be any standard reference
> work. I would recommend e.g. Brill's Encyclopedia of Hinduism. The main
> article on this topic, Karen Pechilis' entry "Gender" (vol. 4, pp.
> 788-805), has an extensive and up-to-date bibliography. Plus this theme is
> discussed in several other entries in this Encyclopedia (they are easily to
> be found using an index).
>
> Best,
> Lubomir
>
>
>
> On Tue, 15 Aug 2017 22:44:14 -0400
> Shyam Ranganathan via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info> wrote:
>
> Dear all,
>
>
> This is a question from a colleague who is not on the list. This
>
> colleague teaches a course on Sex and Gender theory and is interested in
>
> articles that addresses the topic from differing cultural vantages. I
>
> was asked about what was available on the topic that discusses the issue
>
> from the perspective of the Indian tradition.  I didn't know what to
>
> say. I'd be grateful for any suggestions.
>
>
> Thanks,
>
>
> Shyam
>
>
>
> --
>
>
> ShyamRanganathan
>
>
> MA,MA, PhD
>
>
> Department of Philosophy
>
>
> York University, Toronto
>
>
> shyam-ranganathan.info <http://shyam-ranganathan.info/>
>
>
> /The Bloomsbury Research Handbook of Indian Ethics
>
> <http://www.bloomsbury.com/uk/the-bloomsbury-research-handbo
> ok-of-indian-ethics-9781472587770/>/
>
>
> /Pata?jali`s Yoga S?tras
>
> <http://penguin.co.in/book/classics/patanjalis-yoga-sutra/>/
> (Translation,
>
> Edition and Commentary)
>
>
> /Translating Evaluative Discourse: The Semantics of Thick and Thin
>
> Concepts <https://philpapers.org/rec/SHYTED>/
>
>
> Full List, Publications <https://philpapers.org/s/shyam%20ranganathan>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
> committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
> unsubscribe)
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
> committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
> unsubscribe)
>



-- 
Nagaraj Paturi

Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.


BoS, MIT School of Vedic Sciences, Pune, Maharashtra

BoS, Chinmaya Vishwavidyapeeth, Veliyanad, Kerala

Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies

FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of  Liberal Education,

(Pune, Maharashtra, INDIA )


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From jknutson at hawaii.edu  Wed Aug 16 20:24:31 2017
From: jknutson at hawaii.edu (Jesse Knutson)
Date: Wed, 16 Aug 17 10:24:31 -1000
Subject: =?utf-8?B?W0lORE9MT0dZXSDFmuG5m+G5hWfEgXJhbWHDsWphcsSra2F0aMSBIHBkZj8=?=
Message-ID: <CAAiVBEXMUQ6AHNiHfruVux7J4DPiWgABR3oxGirSop3RJ=YmTg@mail.gmail.com>

Dear Friends, Would anyone have a pdf of Bhoja's ???g?rama?jar?kath??
Best,??????,J

-- 
Jesse Ross Knutson PhD
Associate Professor of Sanskrit and Bengali
Department of Indo-Pacific Languages and Literatures
University of Hawai'i at M?noa
461 Spalding


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From psdmccartney at gmail.com  Thu Aug 17 02:11:01 2017
From: psdmccartney at gmail.com (patrick mccartney)
Date: Thu, 17 Aug 17 12:11:01 +1000
Subject: [INDOLOGY] sex and gender
In-Reply-To: <CAJGj9eayLjG2xT5_LXHVnE6KaBykXpOEHbc9ecYQb5E9gGWbSw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAEzwJrD4PBFnehuEisZSY9e2g7O9cQwYs_SjxYkNckzcSdZo2w@mail.gmail.com>

Nagaraj,

It sounds like this habitat centre talk was more a homophobic hate group
than anything else.

These assertions *>>**Some difference between gay partnership and
heterosexual marriage is necessary. He argued that children adopted by
gays are very likely going to acquire a gay syndrome. This is going to be
unhealthy for the institution of family which is already under many threats
and is almost on the verge of extinction in Europe and America.*

are absolutely ludicrous. I do not see how someone like yourself is able to
articulate a sentence with the phrase "gay syndrome" in it, as if it has an
idiopathic etiology, and, as you implicitly phrase, a problem. Perhaps we
should get Ramdev's yoga involved to cure this 'mental illness'?

You and your colleagues seem exceptionally misinformed about child
wellbeing. I would strongly urge you to explore the literature on
children's wellbeing in gay families - which is abundant, here is one
example:
https://aifs.gov.au/cfca/publications/same-sex-parented-families-australia/childrens-wellbeing-same-sex-parented-families


Further to the point, if you are going to talk about the decline of
population as directly caused by, as you put it, 'the gays', and if Putin,
etc is so worried about population decline, perhaps they should look at the
neo-liberal system that places excessive economic pressure and job
instability on the younger generations, who feel unable to actually support
a family, and hence, either choose to not marry, marry later, or not have
kids at all
https://www.economist.com/blogs/economist-explains/2014/07/economist-explains-16


Also, a significant problem is the 50% reduction in the viability of male
semen https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2818620/

How can you honestly say that the LGBTI population, which across the globe
makes up less than 5% of the population, is to blame for wrecking families,
*>> Under the garb of providing equality the same right lobby is going to
create greater instability as gay marriages do not hold any particular
assurances of stability.*

NO MARRIAGE HOLDS ANY PARTICULAR ASSURANCE OF STABILITY.

I'll give you a very personal, anecdotal example. My auntie is a lesbian
and has been in a stable, monogamous relationship for over 30 years. I know
of many stable homosexual partnerships that have lasted as long, if not
longer, than many heterosexual partnerships.

 How can the 'gay syndrome' be the cause of the decline of the family, when
most families are nominally heterosexual, and they are the ones that are
responsible for estrangement and divorce?





All the best,

Patrick McCartney, PhD
Fellow
School of Culture, History & Language
College of the Asia-Pacific
The Australian National University
Canberra, Australia, 0200


Skype - psdmccartney
Phone + Whatsapp:  +61 414 954 748
Twitter - @psdmccartney


*bodhap?rvam calema* ;-)

academia <https://patrickmccartney.academia.edu/>

   -

Linkedin
<https://www.linkedin.com/profile/view?id=241756978&trk=nav_responsive_tab_profile>

Edanz <https://www.edanzediting.com/expert/anthropology/patrick-mccartney>

Conversation
<https://theconversation.com/profiles/patrick-mccartney-phd-136054>

YogaTrade
<https://yogatrade.com/resume/dr-dts7idm-anthropologist-phd-shanti-mandir-authenticity-economy-and-emotion-in-a-yoga-ashram-visiting-fellow-australian-national-university/>

Modern Yoga Research <http://www.modernyogaresearch.org/events/>

#yogabodyANU2016 symposium <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X80KxW2bb0w>
<http://chl.anu.edu.au/news-events/events/658/yoga-and-body-past-and-present-symposium?#tab>

Yoga Fundamentalism - Part 1
<http://www.politicaltheology.com/blog/yoga-practitioners-and-the-unspoken-global-aspirations-of-indian-ethno-nationalism-patrick-mccartney/>

<http://www.politicaltheology.com/blog/is-the-global-prestige-of-sanskrit-aiding-and-abetting-hindu-nationalists-and-supremacists-patrick-mccartney_/>
Yoga Fundamentalism - Part 2
<http://www.politicaltheology.com/blog/is-the-global-prestige-of-sanskrit-aiding-and-abetting-hindu-nationalists-and-supremacists-patrick-mccartney_/>

<http://oicd.net/ge/index.php/politics-beyond-yoga-mat-yoga-fundamentalism-vedic-way-life/>
Politics beyond the yoga mat
<http://oicd.net/ge/index.php/politics-beyond-yoga-mat-yoga-fundamentalism-vedic-way-life/>

The Sanitising Power of Spoken Sanskrit
<https://www.academia.edu/6274287/The_sanitising_power_of_spoken_Sanskrit>

Imagining Sanskrit Land
<https://www.academia.edu/32694583/IMAGINING_SANSKRIT_LAND_ARENA_MAGAZINE_ARTICLE>

Ep1 - Imagining Sanskrit Land <https://youtu.be/jMi7tkPBbJ4>

Ep 2 - Total-am <https://youtu.be/7tAp8m9RHPU>

Ep 3 - Jalam ? Chillum <https://youtu.be/cLZeuCT_mwQ>

Ep 4 - It's Time to get Married
<https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_B3un7aHEAc>

A Day in our Ashram
<https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=ek+din+hamaare+ashram+mein>

OzHarvest <https://youtu.be/r1E-XWWBmvw>

Stop animation short film of Shakuntala
<https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LVqBD_2P4Pg>

Forced to Clean Human Waste <http://youtu.be/y3XfjbwqC_g>

One of my favourite song <http://trinityroots.bandcamp.com/track/all-we-be>s

The Philosophy of Cycling
<http://elibrary.com.ng/UploadFiles/file0_2221.pdf>

Plato's Cave
<http://www.openculture.com/2011/07/orson_welles_narrates_platos_cave_allegory.html>

Endangered Languages MOOC
<https://www.edx.org/course/language-revival-securing-future-adelaidex-lang101x>

Blackfella-Whitefella <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M_DHwp5vYBI>

Triction <http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=triction>



On Wed, Aug 16, 2017 at 8:28 PM, Nagaraj Paturi via INDOLOGY <
indology at list.indology.info> wrote:

> This is a report published in another list:
>
> Prof *Bharat Gupt*, a classicist and dharma shastra scholar gave a talk
> at the Habitat Centre on Nov 25 on "Hindu View of Homosexuality." He examined
> the issue along with a fellow speaker and discussant Dr. Come Carpentier.
> He observed that talking about the Rights of the Homosexual/Gay individuals
> seems to be one of the major agendas of social reforms in India today. Many
> people think that ancient Hindu ideas were entirely compatible with the
> views of modern European and American notions.
>
>     Therefore it was imperative that one goes to see the classical texts
> to collect evidence on the status and life of homoerotic individuals in
> ancient India. One hears all the time, he said,  the usual sentiment that
> as Hinduism is a very tolerant culture, that it was totally open
> homosexuality and that it was more modern than the moderns. Many people
> argue, like the scholars of the Hare Krishna order, that as Hinduism
> believes that every human being is part of Supreme Being Brahma,
> homosexuals cannot be considered as beings of lower category. They also
> think, with out any evidence,  that in the Vedic age, homosexuals were
> fully integrated into social and monastic orders. Prof Guptsaid that most
> of these sentiments are uninformed.
>
>     Talking about the textual evidence, Prof Gupt mentioned that the
> *KAMASUTRA* of Vatsyayana, does define a third order of humans called the *'tritiiyaa
> prakriti'* or third nature. This third nature persons are of two kinds,
> one of the female kind and the other of the male sort *("dvividhaa
> tritiityaaprkritih, striiruupinii* *purusharuupinii ca."* 2.9.1).
> Vatsyayana goes on to say that "she", who behaves like a woman, is to be
> employed for oral sex ("*tasyaa vadane jaganakarma tadauparisht.akamm
> aachakshate"* 2.9.3). She was a paid sex-worker like a courtesan (*'vaishyaavat
> charitam prakaashayet'* 2.9.5) . For the male kind who has the desire for
> males but who cannot make her nature very evident, 'he' should take to the
> profession of massage-giver and thus coming into contact with males satisfy
> them through oral sex (2.9.6-10). In this context the act of
> *auparisht.aka* is described in detail in the *Kamasutra*.
>
>     The ancient Hindu society, as is evident here, did not consider the
> homosexuals as perverts or sinners. As the term, *tritiiya-prakriti* or
> third nature describes them, they are being themselves, they are being
> natural. This is the primary difference between the Christian and the Hindu
> attitude. Christianity did not accept the third nature and hence imposed a
> punishment on their activities.
>
>     For the Hindu social order the homoerotic were not expected to follow
> the heterosexual norms of behaviour. So they cannot be blamed for being
> what they are. And for this reason, accepting their nature, they were
> not excommunicated or purged from human societies. They had to be given a
> place in it and they were to be protected and prevented from harm by the
> State. The *Arthashastra *prescribes a fine for those who persecuted a
> homoerotic person (3.18.4) and it does not prohibits making of eunuchs
> even  in the conquered population by a king by castrating captured males of
> the vanquished (13.5.13). Thus Hindu society accepted the third nature of
> persons who were born with it and did not want to replicate them for any
> purpose of social engineering. Prof Gupt said that Christians promoted
> homosexuals to practice religious castration and Muslims profusely
> castrated the vanquished populations to create classes of menial and
> warrior slaves. Dr. Come Carpentier pointed out that modern corporations
> want to promote homoeroticism as homosexuals not having the burden of
> families are great consumerists and hence great customers.
>
>     While accepting the third nature persons, the ancient Hindus gave them
> a special place in the social order. They were designated to be part of the
> class of sex-workers and performers of music and dance. As till around the
> 10 century prostitution was a legal profession, taxed and protected by the
> State and enshrined as duty of the king in the dharmashastra texts, the
> homoerotics as part of the class of courtesans, musicians, dancers and
> performers had the legal protection and their incomes and their sustenance
> ensured. This position was certainly not respectable and was disadvantaged,
> as it was of a lower category. In fact, it was out of the *varna* order
> or *varnabaahya*. But they also had the freedom/advantage of not having
> any obligations of adopting/ raising any children or performing the rituals
> for ancestor worship which was a major obligation for the *varna* Hindus.
> Difficult for us to imagine today, it was a free life in a major way.
>
>     Prof Gupt pointed out that ancient Hindu society envisaged marriage
> as primarily devoted to procreation and raising of able and educated
> individuals who would contribute to society by performing duties to living
> and the ancestors. While pleasure (*rati*) was one aspect of sexuality,
> *dharma* (obligations) and *artha* (commerce) and moksha (liberation)
> were the other three. As the kinnars were not capable of doing obligations
> they were made into a special class and given a *jati* or guild. It may
> also be pointed out that many homoerotics, impotents or sperm-count
> deficient persons continued to be part of usual varnas and jatis. Ways were
> found to provide them heirs one method being niyoga.
>
>         Coming to the present day situation, Prof Gupt said that
> historical developments have jumbled up the ancient solution. The Islamic
> intervention in the medieval period altered the status and social
> acceptability of the homoerotic class. The performing arts of theatre and
> dance were now taboo in urban life and prostitution lost its legal
> and respectable status though still preserving itself as a repository of
> music and dance. However, homoerotics had a much greater employment in
> harems of Sultans and Rajas and a connection with espionage as of yore.
>
>     It is the British who delivered the stroke of grace for the
> homoerotics. The Biblical and Christian prejudice against sodomy turned the
> kinnars of India into criminals. It delegitimized the profession they had
> earlier and prevented them from taking to a new one. As Indians have been
> too slow to alter the Criminal Procedure Code, the section stating
> punishment for homoerotic contact has not been still eliminated from Indian
> Law. It should be soon done away with the traditional freedom restored. But
> the dismemberment of these people from social order created by the British
> cannot be restored so easily. It would take some serious research to find
> out what are they now tending towards as professions. At a cursory glance
> one may say they are to be found a lot in fashion and film industry.
>
>     Prof Gupt, then commented upon the contentious issue seizing the
> arena of debate, whether gay marriage should be legalized or not. He
> expressed his candid opinion that while gay cohabitation should not be
> illegal, persecuted or even frowned upon, giving the same rights to gaycohabiters
> as to the married heterosexuals couples is not advisable. Some difference
> between gay partnership and heterosexual marriage is necessary. He argued
> that children adopted by gays are very likely going to acquire a gay syndrome.
> This is going to be unhealthy for the institution of family which is
> already under many threats and is almost on the verge of extinction in
> Europe and America.
>
>     Dr. Come Carpentier made the most revealing suggestion that Western
> fascination with homoeroticism is based on consumerism. Under the garb of
> providing equality the same right lobby is going to create greater
> instability as gay marriages do not hold any particular assurances of
> stability. He agreed that adopted children of gays are very likely to be
> gay and thus we create unnatural gays. Putin has explicitly stated that
> Russia under a population decline and they need more children which gay marriages
> are not going to provide. Dr.Carpentier said, that gays are asking asking
> for unrestricted cohabitation, then property inheritance and finally all
> the parity with non-gay marriage.
>
>     The talk was followed by a very animated and prolonged discussion.
> Many in the audience believed that there should be no discrimination and as
> increasing the population was no longer a necessity in the modern world,
> gay marriages are in no way detrimental to society while others thought
> them bad for the instition named as family.
>
>
> On Wed, Aug 16, 2017 at 2:52 PM, Lubom?r Ondra?ka via INDOLOGY <
> indology at list.indology.info> wrote:
>
>> Dear Shyam,
>>
>> in such a case, a normal starting point would be any standard reference
>> work. I would recommend e.g. Brill's Encyclopedia of Hinduism. The main
>> article on this topic, Karen Pechilis' entry "Gender" (vol. 4, pp.
>> 788-805), has an extensive and up-to-date bibliography. Plus this theme is
>> discussed in several other entries in this Encyclopedia (they are easily to
>> be found using an index).
>>
>> Best,
>> Lubomir
>>
>>
>>
>> On Tue, 15 Aug 2017 22:44:14 -0400
>> Shyam Ranganathan via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info> wrote:
>>
>> > Dear all,
>> >
>> > This is a question from a colleague who is not on the list. This
>> > colleague teaches a course on Sex and Gender theory and is interested in
>> > articles that addresses the topic from differing cultural vantages. I
>> > was asked about what was available on the topic that discusses the issue
>> > from the perspective of the Indian tradition.  I didn't know what to
>> > say. I'd be grateful for any suggestions.
>> >
>> > Thanks,
>> >
>> > Shyam
>> >
>> >
>> > --
>> >
>> > ShyamRanganathan
>> >
>> > MA,MA, PhD
>> >
>> > Department of Philosophy
>> >
>> > York University, Toronto
>> >
>> > shyam-ranganathan.info <http://shyam-ranganathan.info/>
>> >
>> > /The Bloomsbury Research Handbook of Indian Ethics
>> > <http://www.bloomsbury.com/uk/the-bloomsbury-research-handbo
>> ok-of-indian-ethics-9781472587770/>/
>> >
>> > /Pata?jali`s Yoga S?tras
>> > <http://penguin.co.in/book/classics/patanjalis-yoga-sutra/>/
>> (Translation,
>> > Edition and Commentary)
>> >
>> > /Translating Evaluative Discourse: The Semantics of Thick and Thin
>> > Concepts <https://philpapers.org/rec/SHYTED>/
>> >
>> > Full List, Publications <https://philpapers.org/s/shyam%20ranganathan>
>> >
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
>> committee)
>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
>> unsubscribe)
>
>
>
>
> --
> Nagaraj Paturi
>
> Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.
>
>
> BoS, MIT School of Vedic Sciences, Pune, Maharashtra
>
> BoS, Chinmaya Vishwavidyapeeth, Veliyanad, Kerala
>
> Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies
>
> FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of  Liberal Education,
>
> (Pune, Maharashtra, INDIA )
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
> committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
> unsubscribe)
>


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From psdmccartney at gmail.com  Thu Aug 17 02:14:27 2017
From: psdmccartney at gmail.com (patrick mccartney)
Date: Thu, 17 Aug 17 12:14:27 +1000
Subject: [INDOLOGY] sex and gender
In-Reply-To: <c6582249-8903-6b47-4808-0484e7d66221@yorku.ca>
Message-ID: <CAEzwJrCicsSh+cs9iSUFNmEkDDbt_zk2Ncnvx1G9Nfoky2VUng@mail.gmail.com>

Dear Shyam,

This film, Lipstick Under My Burkha <http://www.imdb.com/title/tt4807830/>is
controversial, yet explores issues related to gender and patriarchy. It is
set in Bhopal.

Here
<https://roundtableindia.co.in/index.php?option=com_content&view=category&layout=blog&id=120&Itemid=133>
is one critique:





All the best,

Patrick McCartney, PhD
Fellow
School of Culture, History & Language
College of the Asia-Pacific
The Australian National University
Canberra, Australia, 0200


Skype - psdmccartney
Phone + Whatsapp:  +61 414 954 748
Twitter - @psdmccartney


*bodhap?rvam calema* ;-)

academia <https://patrickmccartney.academia.edu/>

   -

Linkedin
<https://www.linkedin.com/profile/view?id=241756978&trk=nav_responsive_tab_profile>

Edanz <https://www.edanzediting.com/expert/anthropology/patrick-mccartney>

Conversation
<https://theconversation.com/profiles/patrick-mccartney-phd-136054>

YogaTrade
<https://yogatrade.com/resume/dr-dts7idm-anthropologist-phd-shanti-mandir-authenticity-economy-and-emotion-in-a-yoga-ashram-visiting-fellow-australian-national-university/>

Modern Yoga Research <http://www.modernyogaresearch.org/events/>

#yogabodyANU2016 symposium <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X80KxW2bb0w>
<http://chl.anu.edu.au/news-events/events/658/yoga-and-body-past-and-present-symposium?#tab>

Yoga Fundamentalism - Part 1
<http://www.politicaltheology.com/blog/yoga-practitioners-and-the-unspoken-global-aspirations-of-indian-ethno-nationalism-patrick-mccartney/>

<http://www.politicaltheology.com/blog/is-the-global-prestige-of-sanskrit-aiding-and-abetting-hindu-nationalists-and-supremacists-patrick-mccartney_/>
Yoga Fundamentalism - Part 2
<http://www.politicaltheology.com/blog/is-the-global-prestige-of-sanskrit-aiding-and-abetting-hindu-nationalists-and-supremacists-patrick-mccartney_/>

<http://oicd.net/ge/index.php/politics-beyond-yoga-mat-yoga-fundamentalism-vedic-way-life/>
Politics beyond the yoga mat
<http://oicd.net/ge/index.php/politics-beyond-yoga-mat-yoga-fundamentalism-vedic-way-life/>

The Sanitising Power of Spoken Sanskrit
<https://www.academia.edu/6274287/The_sanitising_power_of_spoken_Sanskrit>

Imagining Sanskrit Land
<https://www.academia.edu/32694583/IMAGINING_SANSKRIT_LAND_ARENA_MAGAZINE_ARTICLE>

Ep1 - Imagining Sanskrit Land <https://youtu.be/jMi7tkPBbJ4>

Ep 2 - Total-am <https://youtu.be/7tAp8m9RHPU>

Ep 3 - Jalam ? Chillum <https://youtu.be/cLZeuCT_mwQ>

Ep 4 - It's Time to get Married
<https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_B3un7aHEAc>

A Day in our Ashram
<https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=ek+din+hamaare+ashram+mein>

OzHarvest <https://youtu.be/r1E-XWWBmvw>

Stop animation short film of Shakuntala
<https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LVqBD_2P4Pg>

Forced to Clean Human Waste <http://youtu.be/y3XfjbwqC_g>

One of my favourite song <http://trinityroots.bandcamp.com/track/all-we-be>s

The Philosophy of Cycling
<http://elibrary.com.ng/UploadFiles/file0_2221.pdf>

Plato's Cave
<http://www.openculture.com/2011/07/orson_welles_narrates_platos_cave_allegory.html>

Endangered Languages MOOC
<https://www.edx.org/course/language-revival-securing-future-adelaidex-lang101x>

Blackfella-Whitefella <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M_DHwp5vYBI>

Triction <http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=triction>



On Wed, Aug 16, 2017 at 12:44 PM, Shyam Ranganathan via INDOLOGY <
indology at list.indology.info> wrote:

> Dear all,
>
> This is a question from a colleague who is not on the list. This colleague
> teaches a course on Sex and Gender theory and is interested in articles
> that addresses the topic from differing cultural vantages. I was asked
> about what was available on the topic that discusses the issue from the
> perspective of the Indian tradition.  I didn't know what to say. I'd be
> grateful for any suggestions.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Shyam
>
>
> --
>
> Shyam Ranganathan
>
> MA,MA, PhD
>
> Department of Philosophy
>
> York University, Toronto
>
>
>
> shyam-ranganathan.info  <http://shyam-ranganathan.info/>
>
>
>
> *The Bloomsbury Research Handbook of Indian Ethics
> <http://www.bloomsbury.com/uk/the-bloomsbury-research-handbook-of-indian-ethics-9781472587770/>*
>
>
>
> *Pata?jali`s Yoga S?tras
> <http://penguin.co.in/book/classics/patanjalis-yoga-sutra/>* (Translation,
> Edition and Commentary)
>
>
>
> *Translating Evaluative Discourse: The Semantics of Thick and Thin
> Concepts <https://philpapers.org/rec/SHYTED>*
>
>
>
> Full List, Publications <https://philpapers.org/s/shyam%20ranganathan>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
> committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
> unsubscribe)
>


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From nagarajpaturi at gmail.com  Thu Aug 17 03:49:36 2017
From: nagarajpaturi at gmail.com (Nagaraj Paturi)
Date: Thu, 17 Aug 17 09:19:36 +0530
Subject: [INDOLOGY] sex and gender
In-Reply-To: <CAEzwJrD4PBFnehuEisZSY9e2g7O9cQwYs_SjxYkNckzcSdZo2w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAJGj9eYDvOc0fmUKh7DRopxm5WD=WHAWaiN6B7zxVUg1ZZctfg@mail.gmail.com>

Dear Patrick,

The thread initiator Shyam-ji asked for discussions on the topic. The
replying persons are posting references to articles etc. Mine was one such
post.

Your response seems to necessitate a customary statement

 "The opinions expressed in the reference provided by the authors are
totally the opinions or ideas or findings  of the authors. They need not
necessarily be the opinions of the member providing the reference"


to be added to every such reference providing post, unless otherwise the
content of such a statement is taken for granted by the reading members as
is currently being done.

Prof. Bharat Gupt has never been my 'colleague' as you wrongly assume.

After stating that flawed assumption of you , you go on pouring your
statements with repeated YOU, YOU sentences taking all the sentences in the
report to which I provided reference as my sentences, my statements and my
opinions.

I don't think the ideas in the movie Lipstick are yours.

You provided a link to a critique of the film.

I did not provide any link to a critique of Prof. Gupt's piece. I need not.
Nevertheless, the ideas expressed in that piece need not necessarily be
mine.

The context is not our ideas on gender.

The topic is discussion of it in ancient Sanskrit sources.

The piece to which I directed, mentions such sources. The value of the
piece in the context of the present thread is only to that extent.

Prof. Gupt's own opinions may make a topic for a new thread.

The sources cited in the piece take the coverage in the references being
cited to the gender categories beyond male, female that are discussed in
all other references in the thread.

That is the point that deserves attention here.


On Thu, Aug 17, 2017 at 7:41 AM, patrick mccartney <psdmccartney at gmail.com>
wrote:

> Nagaraj,
>
> It sounds like this habitat centre talk was more a homophobic hate group
> than anything else.
>
> These assertions *>>**Some difference between gay partnership and
> heterosexual marriage is necessary. He argued that children adopted by
> gays are very likely going to acquire a gay syndrome. This is going to be
> unhealthy for the institution of family which is already under many threats
> and is almost on the verge of extinction in Europe and America.*
>
> are absolutely ludicrous. I do not see how someone like yourself is able
> to articulate a sentence with the phrase "gay syndrome" in it, as if it has
> an idiopathic etiology, and, as you implicitly phrase, a problem. Perhaps
> we should get Ramdev's yoga involved to cure this 'mental illness'?
>
> You and your colleagues seem exceptionally misinformed about child
> wellbeing. I would strongly urge you to explore the literature on
> children's wellbeing in gay families - which is abundant, here is one
> example: https://aifs.gov.au/cfca/publications/same-sex-
> parented-families-australia/childrens-wellbeing-same-sex-parented-families
>
>
> Further to the point, if you are going to talk about the decline of
> population as directly caused by, as you put it, 'the gays', and if
> Putin, etc is so worried about population decline, perhaps they should look
> at the neo-liberal system that places excessive economic pressure and job
> instability on the younger generations, who feel unable to actually support
> a family, and hence, either choose to not marry, marry later, or not have
> kids at all https://www.economist.com/blogs/economist-explains/2014/
> 07/economist-explains-16
>
> Also, a significant problem is the 50% reduction in the viability of male
> semen https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2818620/
>
> How can you honestly say that the LGBTI population, which across the globe
> makes up less than 5% of the population, is to blame for wrecking families,
> *>> Under the garb of providing equality the same right lobby is going to
> create greater instability as gay marriages do not hold any particular
> assurances of stability.*
>
> NO MARRIAGE HOLDS ANY PARTICULAR ASSURANCE OF STABILITY.
>
> I'll give you a very personal, anecdotal example. My auntie is a lesbian
> and has been in a stable, monogamous relationship for over 30 years. I know
> of many stable homosexual partnerships that have lasted as long, if not
> longer, than many heterosexual partnerships.
>
>  How can the 'gay syndrome' be the cause of the decline of the family,
> when most families are nominally heterosexual, and they are the ones that
> are responsible for estrangement and divorce?
>
>
>
>
>
> All the best,
>
> Patrick McCartney, PhD
> Fellow
> School of Culture, History & Language
> College of the Asia-Pacific
> The Australian National University
> Canberra, Australia, 0200
>
>
> Skype - psdmccartney
> Phone + Whatsapp:  +61 414 954 748
> Twitter - @psdmccartney
>
>
> *bodhap?rvam calema* ;-)
>
> academia <https://patrickmccartney.academia.edu/>
>
>    -
>
> Linkedin
> <https://www.linkedin.com/profile/view?id=241756978&trk=nav_responsive_tab_profile>
>
> Edanz <https://www.edanzediting.com/expert/anthropology/patrick-mccartney>
>
> Conversation
> <https://theconversation.com/profiles/patrick-mccartney-phd-136054>
>
> YogaTrade
> <https://yogatrade.com/resume/dr-dts7idm-anthropologist-phd-shanti-mandir-authenticity-economy-and-emotion-in-a-yoga-ashram-visiting-fellow-australian-national-university/>
>
> Modern Yoga Research <http://www.modernyogaresearch.org/events/>
>
> #yogabodyANU2016 symposium <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X80KxW2bb0w>
> <http://chl.anu.edu.au/news-events/events/658/yoga-and-body-past-and-present-symposium?#tab>
>
> Yoga Fundamentalism - Part 1
> <http://www.politicaltheology.com/blog/yoga-practitioners-and-the-unspoken-global-aspirations-of-indian-ethno-nationalism-patrick-mccartney/>
>
>
> <http://www.politicaltheology.com/blog/is-the-global-prestige-of-sanskrit-aiding-and-abetting-hindu-nationalists-and-supremacists-patrick-mccartney_/>
> Yoga Fundamentalism - Part 2
> <http://www.politicaltheology.com/blog/is-the-global-prestige-of-sanskrit-aiding-and-abetting-hindu-nationalists-and-supremacists-patrick-mccartney_/>
>
>
> <http://oicd.net/ge/index.php/politics-beyond-yoga-mat-yoga-fundamentalism-vedic-way-life/>
> Politics beyond the yoga mat
> <http://oicd.net/ge/index.php/politics-beyond-yoga-mat-yoga-fundamentalism-vedic-way-life/>
>
> The Sanitising Power of Spoken Sanskrit
> <https://www.academia.edu/6274287/The_sanitising_power_of_spoken_Sanskrit>
>
> Imagining Sanskrit Land
> <https://www.academia.edu/32694583/IMAGINING_SANSKRIT_LAND_ARENA_MAGAZINE_ARTICLE>
>
> Ep1 - Imagining Sanskrit Land <https://youtu.be/jMi7tkPBbJ4>
>
> Ep 2 - Total-am <https://youtu.be/7tAp8m9RHPU>
>
> Ep 3 - Jalam ? Chillum <https://youtu.be/cLZeuCT_mwQ>
>
> Ep 4 - It's Time to get Married
> <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_B3un7aHEAc>
>
> A Day in our Ashram
> <https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=ek+din+hamaare+ashram+mein>
>
> OzHarvest <https://youtu.be/r1E-XWWBmvw>
>
> Stop animation short film of Shakuntala
> <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LVqBD_2P4Pg>
>
> Forced to Clean Human Waste <http://youtu.be/y3XfjbwqC_g>
>
> One of my favourite song
> <http://trinityroots.bandcamp.com/track/all-we-be>s
>
> The Philosophy of Cycling
> <http://elibrary.com.ng/UploadFiles/file0_2221.pdf>
>
> Plato's Cave
> <http://www.openculture.com/2011/07/orson_welles_narrates_platos_cave_allegory.html>
>
> Endangered Languages MOOC
> <https://www.edx.org/course/language-revival-securing-future-adelaidex-lang101x>
>
> Blackfella-Whitefella <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M_DHwp5vYBI>
>
> Triction <http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=triction>
>
>
>
> On Wed, Aug 16, 2017 at 8:28 PM, Nagaraj Paturi via INDOLOGY <
> indology at list.indology.info> wrote:
>
>> This is a report published in another list:
>>
>> Prof *Bharat Gupt*, a classicist and dharma shastra scholar gave a talk
>> at the Habitat Centre on Nov 25 on "Hindu View of Homosexuality." He examined
>> the issue along with a fellow speaker and discussant Dr. Come Carpentier.
>> He observed that talking about the Rights of the Homosexual/Gay individuals
>> seems to be one of the major agendas of social reforms in India today. Many
>> people think that ancient Hindu ideas were entirely compatible with the
>> views of modern European and American notions.
>>
>>     Therefore it was imperative that one goes to see the classical texts
>> to collect evidence on the status and life of homoerotic individuals in
>> ancient India. One hears all the time, he said,  the usual sentiment that
>> as Hinduism is a very tolerant culture, that it was totally open
>> homosexuality and that it was more modern than the moderns. Many people
>> argue, like the scholars of the Hare Krishna order, that as Hinduism
>> believes that every human being is part of Supreme Being Brahma,
>> homosexuals cannot be considered as beings of lower category. They also
>> think, with out any evidence,  that in the Vedic age, homosexuals were
>> fully integrated into social and monastic orders. Prof Guptsaid that
>> most of these sentiments are uninformed.
>>
>>     Talking about the textual evidence, Prof Gupt mentioned that the
>> *KAMASUTRA* of Vatsyayana, does define a third order of humans called
>> the *'tritiiyaa prakriti'* or third nature. This third nature persons
>> are of two kinds, one of the female kind and the other of the male sort *("dvividhaa
>> tritiityaaprkritih, striiruupinii* *purusharuupinii ca."* 2.9.1).
>> Vatsyayana goes on to say that "she", who behaves like a woman, is to be
>> employed for oral sex ("*tasyaa vadane jaganakarma tadauparisht.akamm
>> aachakshate"* 2.9.3). She was a paid sex-worker like a courtesan (*'vaishyaavat
>> charitam prakaashayet'* 2.9.5) . For the male kind who has the desire
>> for males but who cannot make her nature very evident, 'he' should take to
>> the profession of massage-giver and thus coming into contact with males
>> satisfy them through oral sex (2.9.6-10). In this context the act of
>> *auparisht.aka* is described in detail in the *Kamasutra*.
>>
>>     The ancient Hindu society, as is evident here, did not consider the
>> homosexuals as perverts or sinners. As the term, *tritiiya-prakriti* or
>> third nature describes them, they are being themselves, they are being
>> natural. This is the primary difference between the Christian and the Hindu
>> attitude. Christianity did not accept the third nature and hence imposed a
>> punishment on their activities.
>>
>>     For the Hindu social order the homoerotic were not expected to follow
>> the heterosexual norms of behaviour. So they cannot be blamed for being
>> what they are. And for this reason, accepting their nature, they were
>> not excommunicated or purged from human societies. They had to be given a
>> place in it and they were to be protected and prevented from harm by the
>> State. The *Arthashastra *prescribes a fine for those who persecuted a
>> homoerotic person (3.18.4) and it does not prohibits making of eunuchs
>> even  in the conquered population by a king by castrating captured males of
>> the vanquished (13.5.13). Thus Hindu society accepted the third nature of
>> persons who were born with it and did not want to replicate them for any
>> purpose of social engineering. Prof Gupt said that Christians promoted
>> homosexuals to practice religious castration and Muslims profusely
>> castrated the vanquished populations to create classes of menial and
>> warrior slaves. Dr. Come Carpentier pointed out that modern corporations
>> want to promote homoeroticism as homosexuals not having the burden of
>> families are great consumerists and hence great customers.
>>
>>     While accepting the third nature persons, the ancient Hindus gave
>> them a special place in the social order. They were designated to be part
>> of the class of sex-workers and performers of music and dance. As till
>> around the 10 century prostitution was a legal profession, taxed and
>> protected by the State and enshrined as duty of the king in the
>> dharmashastra texts, the homoerotics as part of the class of courtesans,
>> musicians, dancers and performers had the legal protection and their
>> incomes and their sustenance ensured. This position was certainly not
>> respectable and was disadvantaged, as it was of a lower category. In fact,
>> it was out of the *varna* order or *varnabaahya*. But they also had the
>> freedom/advantage of not having any obligations of adopting/ raising any
>> children or performing the rituals for ancestor worship which was a
>> major obligation for the *varna* Hindus. Difficult for us to imagine
>> today, it was a free life in a major way.
>>
>>     Prof Gupt pointed out that ancient Hindu society envisaged marriage
>> as primarily devoted to procreation and raising of able and educated
>> individuals who would contribute to society by performing duties to living
>> and the ancestors. While pleasure (*rati*) was one aspect of sexuality,
>> *dharma* (obligations) and *artha* (commerce) and moksha (liberation)
>> were the other three. As the kinnars were not capable of doing obligations
>> they were made into a special class and given a *jati* or guild. It may
>> also be pointed out that many homoerotics, impotents or sperm-count
>> deficient persons continued to be part of usual varnas and jatis. Ways were
>> found to provide them heirs one method being niyoga.
>>
>>         Coming to the present day situation, Prof Gupt said that
>> historical developments have jumbled up the ancient solution. The Islamic
>> intervention in the medieval period altered the status and social
>> acceptability of the homoerotic class. The performing arts of theatre and
>> dance were now taboo in urban life and prostitution lost its legal
>> and respectable status though still preserving itself as a repository of
>> music and dance. However, homoerotics had a much greater employment in
>> harems of Sultans and Rajas and a connection with espionage as of yore.
>>
>>     It is the British who delivered the stroke of grace for the
>> homoerotics. The Biblical and Christian prejudice against sodomy turned the
>> kinnars of India into criminals. It delegitimized the profession they had
>> earlier and prevented them from taking to a new one. As Indians have been
>> too slow to alter the Criminal Procedure Code, the section stating
>> punishment for homoerotic contact has not been still eliminated from Indian
>> Law. It should be soon done away with the traditional freedom restored. But
>> the dismemberment of these people from social order created by the British
>> cannot be restored so easily. It would take some serious research to find
>> out what are they now tending towards as professions. At a cursory glance
>> one may say they are to be found a lot in fashion and film industry.
>>
>>     Prof Gupt, then commented upon the contentious issue seizing the
>> arena of debate, whether gay marriage should be legalized or not. He
>> expressed his candid opinion that while gay cohabitation should not be
>> illegal, persecuted or even frowned upon, giving the same rights to gaycohabiters
>> as to the married heterosexuals couples is not advisable. Some difference
>> between gay partnership and heterosexual marriage is necessary.
>> He argued that children adopted by gays are very likely going to acquire a
>> gay syndrome. This is going to be unhealthy for the institution of
>> family which is already under many threats and is almost on the verge of
>> extinction in Europe and America.
>>
>>     Dr. Come Carpentier made the most revealing suggestion that Western
>> fascination with homoeroticism is based on consumerism. Under the garb of
>> providing equality the same right lobby is going to create greater
>> instability as gay marriages do not hold any particular assurances of
>> stability. He agreed that adopted children of gays are very likely to be
>> gay and thus we create unnatural gays. Putin has explicitly stated that
>> Russia under a population decline and they need more children which gay marriages
>> are not going to provide. Dr.Carpentier said, that gays are asking asking
>> for unrestricted cohabitation, then property inheritance and finally all
>> the parity with non-gay marriage.
>>
>>     The talk was followed by a very animated and prolonged discussion.
>> Many in the audience believed that there should be no discrimination and as
>> increasing the population was no longer a necessity in the modern world,
>> gay marriages are in no way detrimental to society while others thought
>> them bad for the instition named as family.
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Aug 16, 2017 at 2:52 PM, Lubom?r Ondra?ka via INDOLOGY <
>> indology at list.indology.info> wrote:
>>
>>> Dear Shyam,
>>>
>>> in such a case, a normal starting point would be any standard reference
>>> work. I would recommend e.g. Brill's Encyclopedia of Hinduism. The main
>>> article on this topic, Karen Pechilis' entry "Gender" (vol. 4, pp.
>>> 788-805), has an extensive and up-to-date bibliography. Plus this theme is
>>> discussed in several other entries in this Encyclopedia (they are easily to
>>> be found using an index).
>>>
>>> Best,
>>> Lubomir
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tue, 15 Aug 2017 22:44:14 -0400
>>> Shyam Ranganathan via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info> wrote:
>>>
>>> > Dear all,
>>> >
>>> > This is a question from a colleague who is not on the list. This
>>> > colleague teaches a course on Sex and Gender theory and is interested
>>> in
>>> > articles that addresses the topic from differing cultural vantages. I
>>> > was asked about what was available on the topic that discusses the
>>> issue
>>> > from the perspective of the Indian tradition.  I didn't know what to
>>> > say. I'd be grateful for any suggestions.
>>> >
>>> > Thanks,
>>> >
>>> > Shyam
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > --
>>> >
>>> > ShyamRanganathan
>>> >
>>> > MA,MA, PhD
>>> >
>>> > Department of Philosophy
>>> >
>>> > York University, Toronto
>>> >
>>> > shyam-ranganathan.info <http://shyam-ranganathan.info/>
>>> >
>>> > /The Bloomsbury Research Handbook of Indian Ethics
>>> > <http://www.bloomsbury.com/uk/the-bloomsbury-research-handbo
>>> ok-of-indian-ethics-9781472587770/>/
>>> >
>>> > /Pata?jali`s Yoga S?tras
>>> > <http://penguin.co.in/book/classics/patanjalis-yoga-sutra/>/
>>> (Translation,
>>> > Edition and Commentary)
>>> >
>>> > /Translating Evaluative Discourse: The Semantics of Thick and Thin
>>> > Concepts <https://philpapers.org/rec/SHYTED>/
>>> >
>>> > Full List, Publications <https://philpapers.org/s/shyam%20ranganathan>
>>> >
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
>>> committee)
>>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options
>>> or unsubscribe)
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Nagaraj Paturi
>>
>> Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.
>>
>>
>> BoS, MIT School of Vedic Sciences, Pune, Maharashtra
>>
>> BoS, Chinmaya Vishwavidyapeeth, Veliyanad, Kerala
>>
>> Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies
>>
>> FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of  Liberal Education,
>>
>> (Pune, Maharashtra, INDIA )
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
>> committee)
>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
>> unsubscribe)
>>
>
>


-- 
Nagaraj Paturi

Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.


BoS, MIT School of Vedic Sciences, Pune, Maharashtra

BoS, Chinmaya Vishwavidyapeeth, Veliyanad, Kerala

Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies

FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of  Liberal Education,

(Pune, Maharashtra, INDIA )


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From nagarajpaturi at gmail.com  Thu Aug 17 03:52:47 2017
From: nagarajpaturi at gmail.com (Nagaraj Paturi)
Date: Thu, 17 Aug 17 09:22:47 +0530
Subject: [INDOLOGY] sex and gender
In-Reply-To: <CAJGj9eYDvOc0fmUKh7DRopxm5WD=WHAWaiN6B7zxVUg1ZZctfg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAJGj9eaxbcJp8Py4-j_ueKJAY79Ssa7uEhfvAWVTJxG5+7XYtg@mail.gmail.com>

The customary statement draft by me has a mistake. It should have been

The opinions expressed in the reference provided by* the posting member of
the list *are totally the opinions or ideas or findings  of the authors.
They need not necessarily be the opinions of the member providing the
reference"

not


The opinions expressed in the reference provided by the authors are totally
the opinions or ideas or findings  of the authors. They need not
necessarily be the opinions of the member providing the reference"


On Thu, Aug 17, 2017 at 9:19 AM, Nagaraj Paturi <nagarajpaturi at gmail.com>
wrote:

> Dear Patrick,
>
> The thread initiator Shyam-ji asked for discussions on the topic. The
> replying persons are posting references to articles etc. Mine was one such
> post.
>
> Your response seems to necessitate a customary statement
>
>  "The opinions expressed in the reference provided by the authors are
> totally the opinions or ideas or findings  of the authors. They need not
> necessarily be the opinions of the member providing the reference"
>
>
> to be added to every such reference providing post, unless otherwise the
> content of such a statement is taken for granted by the reading members as
> is currently being done.
>
> Prof. Bharat Gupt has never been my 'colleague' as you wrongly assume.
>
> After stating that flawed assumption of you , you go on pouring your
> statements with repeated YOU, YOU sentences taking all the sentences in the
> report to which I provided reference as my sentences, my statements and my
> opinions.
>
> I don't think the ideas in the movie Lipstick are yours.
>
> You provided a link to a critique of the film.
>
> I did not provide any link to a critique of Prof. Gupt's piece. I need
> not. Nevertheless, the ideas expressed in that piece need not necessarily
> be mine.
>
> The context is not our ideas on gender.
>
> The topic is discussion of it in ancient Sanskrit sources.
>
> The piece to which I directed, mentions such sources. The value of the
> piece in the context of the present thread is only to that extent.
>
> Prof. Gupt's own opinions may make a topic for a new thread.
>
> The sources cited in the piece take the coverage in the references being
> cited to the gender categories beyond male, female that are discussed in
> all other references in the thread.
>
> That is the point that deserves attention here.
>
>
> On Thu, Aug 17, 2017 at 7:41 AM, patrick mccartney <psdmccartney at gmail.com
> > wrote:
>
>> Nagaraj,
>>
>> It sounds like this habitat centre talk was more a homophobic hate group
>> than anything else.
>>
>> These assertions *>>**Some difference between gay partnership and
>> heterosexual marriage is necessary. He argued that children adopted by
>> gays are very likely going to acquire a gay syndrome. This is going to be
>> unhealthy for the institution of family which is already under many threats
>> and is almost on the verge of extinction in Europe and America.*
>>
>> are absolutely ludicrous. I do not see how someone like yourself is able
>> to articulate a sentence with the phrase "gay syndrome" in it, as if it has
>> an idiopathic etiology, and, as you implicitly phrase, a problem. Perhaps
>> we should get Ramdev's yoga involved to cure this 'mental illness'?
>>
>> You and your colleagues seem exceptionally misinformed about child
>> wellbeing. I would strongly urge you to explore the literature on
>> children's wellbeing in gay families - which is abundant, here is one
>> example: https://aifs.gov.au/cfca/publications/same-sex-parented-
>> families-australia/childrens-wellbeing-same-sex-parented-families
>>
>> Further to the point, if you are going to talk about the decline of
>> population as directly caused by, as you put it, 'the gays', and if
>> Putin, etc is so worried about population decline, perhaps they should look
>> at the neo-liberal system that places excessive economic pressure and job
>> instability on the younger generations, who feel unable to actually support
>> a family, and hence, either choose to not marry, marry later, or not have
>> kids at all https://www.economist.com/blogs/economist-explains/2014/07/
>> economist-explains-16
>>
>> Also, a significant problem is the 50% reduction in the viability of male
>> semen https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2818620/
>>
>> How can you honestly say that the LGBTI population, which across the
>> globe makes up less than 5% of the population, is to blame for wrecking
>> families,
>> *>> Under the garb of providing equality the same right lobby is going to
>> create greater instability as gay marriages do not hold any particular
>> assurances of stability.*
>>
>> NO MARRIAGE HOLDS ANY PARTICULAR ASSURANCE OF STABILITY.
>>
>> I'll give you a very personal, anecdotal example. My auntie is a lesbian
>> and has been in a stable, monogamous relationship for over 30 years. I know
>> of many stable homosexual partnerships that have lasted as long, if not
>> longer, than many heterosexual partnerships.
>>
>>  How can the 'gay syndrome' be the cause of the decline of the family,
>> when most families are nominally heterosexual, and they are the ones that
>> are responsible for estrangement and divorce?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> All the best,
>>
>> Patrick McCartney, PhD
>> Fellow
>> School of Culture, History & Language
>> College of the Asia-Pacific
>> The Australian National University
>> Canberra, Australia, 0200
>>
>>
>> Skype - psdmccartney
>> Phone + Whatsapp:  +61 414 954 748
>> Twitter - @psdmccartney
>>
>>
>> *bodhap?rvam calema* ;-)
>>
>> academia <https://patrickmccartney.academia.edu/>
>>
>>    -
>>
>> Linkedin
>> <https://www.linkedin.com/profile/view?id=241756978&trk=nav_responsive_tab_profile>
>>
>> Edanz
>> <https://www.edanzediting.com/expert/anthropology/patrick-mccartney>
>>
>> Conversation
>> <https://theconversation.com/profiles/patrick-mccartney-phd-136054>
>>
>> YogaTrade
>> <https://yogatrade.com/resume/dr-dts7idm-anthropologist-phd-shanti-mandir-authenticity-economy-and-emotion-in-a-yoga-ashram-visiting-fellow-australian-national-university/>
>>
>> Modern Yoga Research <http://www.modernyogaresearch.org/events/>
>>
>> #yogabodyANU2016 symposium <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X80KxW2bb0w>
>> <http://chl.anu.edu.au/news-events/events/658/yoga-and-body-past-and-present-symposium?#tab>
>>
>> Yoga Fundamentalism - Part 1
>> <http://www.politicaltheology.com/blog/yoga-practitioners-and-the-unspoken-global-aspirations-of-indian-ethno-nationalism-patrick-mccartney/>
>>
>>
>> <http://www.politicaltheology.com/blog/is-the-global-prestige-of-sanskrit-aiding-and-abetting-hindu-nationalists-and-supremacists-patrick-mccartney_/>
>> Yoga Fundamentalism - Part 2
>> <http://www.politicaltheology.com/blog/is-the-global-prestige-of-sanskrit-aiding-and-abetting-hindu-nationalists-and-supremacists-patrick-mccartney_/>
>>
>>
>> <http://oicd.net/ge/index.php/politics-beyond-yoga-mat-yoga-fundamentalism-vedic-way-life/>
>> Politics beyond the yoga mat
>> <http://oicd.net/ge/index.php/politics-beyond-yoga-mat-yoga-fundamentalism-vedic-way-life/>
>>
>> The Sanitising Power of Spoken Sanskrit
>> <https://www.academia.edu/6274287/The_sanitising_power_of_spoken_Sanskrit>
>>
>> Imagining Sanskrit Land
>> <https://www.academia.edu/32694583/IMAGINING_SANSKRIT_LAND_ARENA_MAGAZINE_ARTICLE>
>>
>> Ep1 - Imagining Sanskrit Land <https://youtu.be/jMi7tkPBbJ4>
>>
>> Ep 2 - Total-am <https://youtu.be/7tAp8m9RHPU>
>>
>> Ep 3 - Jalam ? Chillum <https://youtu.be/cLZeuCT_mwQ>
>>
>> Ep 4 - It's Time to get Married
>> <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_B3un7aHEAc>
>>
>> A Day in our Ashram
>> <https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=ek+din+hamaare+ashram+mein>
>>
>> OzHarvest <https://youtu.be/r1E-XWWBmvw>
>>
>> Stop animation short film of Shakuntala
>> <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LVqBD_2P4Pg>
>>
>> Forced to Clean Human Waste <http://youtu.be/y3XfjbwqC_g>
>>
>> One of my favourite song
>> <http://trinityroots.bandcamp.com/track/all-we-be>s
>>
>> The Philosophy of Cycling
>> <http://elibrary.com.ng/UploadFiles/file0_2221.pdf>
>>
>> Plato's Cave
>> <http://www.openculture.com/2011/07/orson_welles_narrates_platos_cave_allegory.html>
>>
>> Endangered Languages MOOC
>> <https://www.edx.org/course/language-revival-securing-future-adelaidex-lang101x>
>>
>> Blackfella-Whitefella <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M_DHwp5vYBI>
>>
>> Triction <http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=triction>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Aug 16, 2017 at 8:28 PM, Nagaraj Paturi via INDOLOGY <
>> indology at list.indology.info> wrote:
>>
>>> This is a report published in another list:
>>>
>>> Prof *Bharat Gupt*, a classicist and dharma shastra scholar gave a talk
>>> at the Habitat Centre on Nov 25 on "Hindu View of Homosexuality." He examined
>>> the issue along with a fellow speaker and discussant Dr. Come Carpentier.
>>> He observed that talking about the Rights of the Homosexual/Gay individuals
>>> seems to be one of the major agendas of social reforms in India today. Many
>>> people think that ancient Hindu ideas were entirely compatible with the
>>> views of modern European and American notions.
>>>
>>>     Therefore it was imperative that one goes to see the classical
>>> texts to collect evidence on the status and life of homoerotic individuals
>>> in ancient India. One hears all the time, he said,  the usual sentiment
>>> that as Hinduism is a very tolerant culture, that it was totally open
>>> homosexuality and that it was more modern than the moderns. Many people
>>> argue, like the scholars of the Hare Krishna order, that as Hinduism
>>> believes that every human being is part of Supreme Being Brahma,
>>> homosexuals cannot be considered as beings of lower category. They also
>>> think, with out any evidence,  that in the Vedic age, homosexuals were
>>> fully integrated into social and monastic orders. Prof Guptsaid that
>>> most of these sentiments are uninformed.
>>>
>>>     Talking about the textual evidence, Prof Gupt mentioned that the
>>> *KAMASUTRA* of Vatsyayana, does define a third order of humans called
>>> the *'tritiiyaa prakriti'* or third nature. This third nature persons
>>> are of two kinds, one of the female kind and the other of the male sort *("dvividhaa
>>> tritiityaaprkritih, striiruupinii* *purusharuupinii ca."* 2.9.1).
>>> Vatsyayana goes on to say that "she", who behaves like a woman, is to be
>>> employed for oral sex ("*tasyaa vadane jaganakarma tadauparisht.akamm
>>> aachakshate"* 2.9.3). She was a paid sex-worker like a courtesan (*'vaishyaavat
>>> charitam prakaashayet'* 2.9.5) . For the male kind who has the desire
>>> for males but who cannot make her nature very evident, 'he' should take to
>>> the profession of massage-giver and thus coming into contact with males
>>> satisfy them through oral sex (2.9.6-10). In this context the act of
>>> *auparisht.aka* is described in detail in the *Kamasutra*.
>>>
>>>     The ancient Hindu society, as is evident here, did not consider the
>>> homosexuals as perverts or sinners. As the term, *tritiiya-prakriti* or
>>> third nature describes them, they are being themselves, they are being
>>> natural. This is the primary difference between the Christian and the Hindu
>>> attitude. Christianity did not accept the third nature and hence imposed a
>>> punishment on their activities.
>>>
>>>     For the Hindu social order the homoerotic were not expected to
>>> follow the heterosexual norms of behaviour. So they cannot be blamed for
>>> being what they are. And for this reason, accepting their nature, they were
>>> not excommunicated or purged from human societies. They had to be given a
>>> place in it and they were to be protected and prevented from harm by the
>>> State. The *Arthashastra *prescribes a fine for those who persecuted a
>>> homoerotic person (3.18.4) and it does not prohibits making of eunuchs
>>> even  in the conquered population by a king by castrating captured males of
>>> the vanquished (13.5.13). Thus Hindu society accepted the third nature of
>>> persons who were born with it and did not want to replicate them for any
>>> purpose of social engineering. Prof Gupt said that Christians promoted
>>> homosexuals to practice religious castration and Muslims profusely
>>> castrated the vanquished populations to create classes of menial and
>>> warrior slaves. Dr. Come Carpentier pointed out that modern corporations
>>> want to promote homoeroticism as homosexuals not having the burden of
>>> families are great consumerists and hence great customers.
>>>
>>>     While accepting the third nature persons, the ancient Hindus gave
>>> them a special place in the social order. They were designated to be part
>>> of the class of sex-workers and performers of music and dance. As till
>>> around the 10 century prostitution was a legal profession, taxed and
>>> protected by the State and enshrined as duty of the king in the
>>> dharmashastra texts, the homoerotics as part of the class of courtesans,
>>> musicians, dancers and performers had the legal protection and their
>>> incomes and their sustenance ensured. This position was certainly not
>>> respectable and was disadvantaged, as it was of a lower category. In fact,
>>> it was out of the *varna* order or *varnabaahya*. But they also had the
>>> freedom/advantage of not having any obligations of adopting/ raising any
>>> children or performing the rituals for ancestor worship which was a
>>> major obligation for the *varna* Hindus. Difficult for us to imagine
>>> today, it was a free life in a major way.
>>>
>>>     Prof Gupt pointed out that ancient Hindu society envisaged marriage
>>> as primarily devoted to procreation and raising of able and educated
>>> individuals who would contribute to society by performing duties to living
>>> and the ancestors. While pleasure (*rati*) was one aspect of sexuality,
>>> *dharma* (obligations) and *artha* (commerce) and moksha (liberation)
>>> were the other three. As the kinnars were not capable of doing obligations
>>> they were made into a special class and given a *jati* or guild. It may
>>> also be pointed out that many homoerotics, impotents or sperm-count
>>> deficient persons continued to be part of usual varnas and jatis. Ways were
>>> found to provide them heirs one method being niyoga.
>>>
>>>         Coming to the present day situation, Prof Gupt said that
>>> historical developments have jumbled up the ancient solution. The Islamic
>>> intervention in the medieval period altered the status and social
>>> acceptability of the homoerotic class. The performing arts of theatre and
>>> dance were now taboo in urban life and prostitution lost its legal
>>> and respectable status though still preserving itself as a repository of
>>> music and dance. However, homoerotics had a much greater employment in
>>> harems of Sultans and Rajas and a connection with espionage as of yore.
>>>
>>>     It is the British who delivered the stroke of grace for the
>>> homoerotics. The Biblical and Christian prejudice against sodomy turned the
>>> kinnars of India into criminals. It delegitimized the profession they had
>>> earlier and prevented them from taking to a new one. As Indians have been
>>> too slow to alter the Criminal Procedure Code, the section stating
>>> punishment for homoerotic contact has not been still eliminated from Indian
>>> Law. It should be soon done away with the traditional freedom restored. But
>>> the dismemberment of these people from social order created by the British
>>> cannot be restored so easily. It would take some serious research to find
>>> out what are they now tending towards as professions. At a cursory glance
>>> one may say they are to be found a lot in fashion and film industry.
>>>
>>>     Prof Gupt, then commented upon the contentious issue seizing the
>>> arena of debate, whether gay marriage should be legalized or not. He
>>> expressed his candid opinion that while gay cohabitation should not be
>>> illegal, persecuted or even frowned upon, giving the same rights to gaycohabiters
>>> as to the married heterosexuals couples is not advisable. Some difference
>>> between gay partnership and heterosexual marriage is necessary.
>>> He argued that children adopted by gays are very likely going to acquire a
>>> gay syndrome. This is going to be unhealthy for the institution of
>>> family which is already under many threats and is almost on the verge of
>>> extinction in Europe and America.
>>>
>>>     Dr. Come Carpentier made the most revealing suggestion that Western
>>> fascination with homoeroticism is based on consumerism. Under the garb of
>>> providing equality the same right lobby is going to create greater
>>> instability as gay marriages do not hold any particular assurances of
>>> stability. He agreed that adopted children of gays are very likely to be
>>> gay and thus we create unnatural gays. Putin has explicitly stated that
>>> Russia under a population decline and they need more children which gay marriages
>>> are not going to provide. Dr.Carpentier said, that gays are asking asking
>>> for unrestricted cohabitation, then property inheritance and finally all
>>> the parity with non-gay marriage.
>>>
>>>     The talk was followed by a very animated and prolonged discussion.
>>> Many in the audience believed that there should be no discrimination and as
>>> increasing the population was no longer a necessity in the modern world,
>>> gay marriages are in no way detrimental to society while others thought
>>> them bad for the instition named as family.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wed, Aug 16, 2017 at 2:52 PM, Lubom?r Ondra?ka via INDOLOGY <
>>> indology at list.indology.info> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Dear Shyam,
>>>>
>>>> in such a case, a normal starting point would be any standard reference
>>>> work. I would recommend e.g. Brill's Encyclopedia of Hinduism. The main
>>>> article on this topic, Karen Pechilis' entry "Gender" (vol. 4, pp.
>>>> 788-805), has an extensive and up-to-date bibliography. Plus this theme is
>>>> discussed in several other entries in this Encyclopedia (they are easily to
>>>> be found using an index).
>>>>
>>>> Best,
>>>> Lubomir
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Tue, 15 Aug 2017 22:44:14 -0400
>>>> Shyam Ranganathan via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> > Dear all,
>>>> >
>>>> > This is a question from a colleague who is not on the list. This
>>>> > colleague teaches a course on Sex and Gender theory and is interested
>>>> in
>>>> > articles that addresses the topic from differing cultural vantages. I
>>>> > was asked about what was available on the topic that discusses the
>>>> issue
>>>> > from the perspective of the Indian tradition.  I didn't know what to
>>>> > say. I'd be grateful for any suggestions.
>>>> >
>>>> > Thanks,
>>>> >
>>>> > Shyam
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> > --
>>>> >
>>>> > ShyamRanganathan
>>>> >
>>>> > MA,MA, PhD
>>>> >
>>>> > Department of Philosophy
>>>> >
>>>> > York University, Toronto
>>>> >
>>>> > shyam-ranganathan.info <http://shyam-ranganathan.info/>
>>>> >
>>>> > /The Bloomsbury Research Handbook of Indian Ethics
>>>> > <http://www.bloomsbury.com/uk/the-bloomsbury-research-handbo
>>>> ok-of-indian-ethics-9781472587770/>/
>>>> >
>>>> > /Pata?jali`s Yoga S?tras
>>>> > <http://penguin.co.in/book/classics/patanjalis-yoga-sutra/>/
>>>> (Translation,
>>>> > Edition and Commentary)
>>>> >
>>>> > /Translating Evaluative Discourse: The Semantics of Thick and Thin
>>>> > Concepts <https://philpapers.org/rec/SHYTED>/
>>>> >
>>>> > Full List, Publications <https://philpapers.org/s/shyam%20ranganathan
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>>>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>>>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
>>>> committee)
>>>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options
>>>> or unsubscribe)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Nagaraj Paturi
>>>
>>> Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.
>>>
>>>
>>> BoS, MIT School of Vedic Sciences, Pune, Maharashtra
>>>
>>> BoS, Chinmaya Vishwavidyapeeth, Veliyanad, Kerala
>>>
>>> Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies
>>>
>>> FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of  Liberal Education,
>>>
>>> (Pune, Maharashtra, INDIA )
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
>>> committee)
>>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options
>>> or unsubscribe)
>>>
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Nagaraj Paturi
>
> Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.
>
>
> BoS, MIT School of Vedic Sciences, Pune, Maharashtra
>
> BoS, Chinmaya Vishwavidyapeeth, Veliyanad, Kerala
>
> Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies
>
> FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of  Liberal Education,
>
> (Pune, Maharashtra, INDIA )
>
>
>
>



-- 
Nagaraj Paturi

Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.


BoS, MIT School of Vedic Sciences, Pune, Maharashtra

BoS, Chinmaya Vishwavidyapeeth, Veliyanad, Kerala

Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies

FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of  Liberal Education,

(Pune, Maharashtra, INDIA )


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From arlogriffiths at hotmail.com  Thu Aug 17 07:00:08 2017
From: arlogriffiths at hotmail.com (Arlo Griffiths)
Date: Thu, 17 Aug 17 07:00:08 +0000
Subject: [INDOLOGY] a conference and two online epigraphical corpora
Message-ID: <HE1PR0902MB1753DE7E4C47D4FD147772DDA5830@HE1PR0902MB1753.eurprd09.prod.outlook.com>

Dear colleagues,

Earlier this month, a group of scholars assembled at the EFEO Center in Pondicherry for a conference on the theme "From Vijayapur? to ?r?k?etra? The beginnings of Buddhist exchange across the Bay of Bengal". The conference program is attached to this message. We intend to publish the papers before too long.


The conference was the conclusion to a two-year collaborative research project in Buddhist Studies made possible by a grant from The Robert H. N. Ho Family Foundation administered by the American Council of Learned Societies. A first article on the Indian side of the project has just appeared in BEFEO 102; an article on the Burmese side of the project has been submitted for publication in the same journal.


The main published outcome of the project, however, takes the form of two websites, which I am happy to make public today:


- Early Inscriptions of ?ndhrade?a: <http://hisoma.huma-num.fr/exist/apps/EIAD/index2.html>

- Corpus of Pyu Inscriptions: <http://hisoma.huma-num.fr/exist/apps/pyu/index2.html>


The first at this time presents only 173 out of the total of more than 700 inscriptions of the early historic and early medieval ?ndhra region that will be included once the database is complete, which should take us a few more years. The second already now presents the vast majority of the known inscriptions of the Pyu civilization of first-millennium Burma.


We are still in the process of adding images and proofreading, and we're also facing some technical growing pains, i.a. with the search function, but I expect these to be progressively ironed out over the coming months. All comments and corrections are welcome at my address <arlo.griffiths at efeo.net>.


Arlo Griffiths



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From mailmealakendudas at rediffmail.com  Thu Aug 17 15:25:33 2017
From: mailmealakendudas at rediffmail.com (alakendu das)
Date: Thu, 17 Aug 17 15:25:33 +0000
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Buddhist Text
Message-ID: <20170817152533.9315.qmail@f4mail-235-215.rediffmail.com>

 To all,

             I came across the following qoute while going through  a book on Buddhist Philosophy-             

                     " Bauddhanam Sugato Deva Vishwam cha Kshanabhanguram".

        Can anybody may kindly suggest as to which Buddhist philosopher can the above be ascribed to.? I am struggling to find one philosopher who advocated KshanikaVada or Momentaryness?



                              Alakendu Das.





















                            


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From mailmealakendudas at rediffmail.com  Thu Aug 17 15:26:49 2017
From: mailmealakendudas at rediffmail.com (alakendu das)
Date: Thu, 17 Aug 17 15:26:49 +0000
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Buddhist Text
Message-ID: <20170817152649.8372.qmail@f4mail-235-149.rediffmail.com>

 To all,

             I came across the following qoute while going through  a book on Buddhist Philosophy-             

                     " Bauddhanam Sugato Deva Vishwam cha Kshanabhanguram".

        Can anybody may kindly suggest as to which Buddhist philosopher can the above be ascribed to.? I am struggling to find one philosopher who advocated KshanikaVada or Momentaryness?



                              Alakendu Das.





















                            


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From jknutson at hawaii.edu  Thu Aug 17 21:03:17 2017
From: jknutson at hawaii.edu (Jesse Knutson)
Date: Thu, 17 Aug 17 11:03:17 -1000
Subject: =?utf-8?Q?[INDOLOGY]_thanks_for_=C5=9B=E1=B9=9B=E1=B9=85g=C4=81rama=C3=B1jar=C4=ABkath=C4=81?=
Message-ID: <CAAiVBEXHKUhchB2e-KeGg=2-pjD0HjaKKkondY4h5r_bXc9_AQ@mail.gmail.com>

Warm thanks to Madhava Deshpande, the ??????????????????????

-- 
Jesse Ross Knutson PhD
Associate Professor of Sanskrit and Bengali
Department of Indo-Pacific Languages and Literatures
University of Hawai'i at M?noa
461 Spalding


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From rmahoney at fastmail.com  Thu Aug 17 22:39:10 2017
From: rmahoney at fastmail.com (Richard Mahoney | Indica et Buddhica)
Date: Fri, 18 Aug 17 10:39:10 +1200
Subject: =?utf-8?Q?[INDOLOGY]_Fw:_Publication_Announcement:_The_bodhisattvam=C4=81rga_in_the_=C5=9Aik=E1=B9=A3=C4=81samuccaya_[Softcover]?=
Message-ID: <20170818103910.00002689.rmahoney@fastmail.com>

Dear Colleagues,

The following has recently become available in softcover:

Of the progresse of the Bodhisattva: the bodhisattvam?rga in the
?ik??samuccaya / Richard Mahoney (Oxford: Indica et Buddhica, 2016)

ISBN (Softcover): 978-0-473-40931-9 (8.5 x 11 in, Perfect Bound, 264pp.)


Further details here:

http://indica-et-buddhica.org/repositorium/santideva/siksasamuccaya-progresse-bodhisattva



With best regards,

 Richard



Begin forwarded message:

Date: Sun, 6 Nov 2016 18:01:29 +1300
From: Richard Mahoney <rmahoney at fastmail.com>
To: Indology <indology at list.indology.info>
Cc: r.mahoney at indica-et-buddhica.org
Subject: Publication Announcement: The bodhisattvam?rga in the
?ik??samuccaya


Dear Colleagues,

Over the years there has been a constant demand for `The Progresse'. A
hardback edition has therefore been put out, together with three ebook
editions. For details please see:

Of the progresse of the Bodhisattva: the bodhisattvam?rga in the
?ik??samuccaya / Richard Mahoney (Oxford: Indica et Buddhica, 2016)

http://indica-et-buddhica.org/repositorium/santideva/siksasamuccaya-progresse-bodhisattva


ISBN (Hardcover):	978-0-473-37538-6 (8.5 x 11 in, Case Laminate,
264pp.) Distributed by INGRAM and widely available

...

The original PDF which forms the basis for the printed edition remains
freely available for download.


With best regards,

  Richard



--
                              Richard Mahoney | INDICA ET BUDDHICA
                         Littledene  Bay Road  Oxford  New Zealand
                    T: +64-3-312-1699 | www.indica-et-buddhica.org





From wujastyk at gmail.com  Fri Aug 18 20:11:23 2017
From: wujastyk at gmail.com (Dominik Wujastyk)
Date: Fri, 18 Aug 17 14:11:23 -0600
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Cambridge University Press yields to PRC censorship
Message-ID: <CAKdt-CfOFj112Hce3z0Yec+y694Y5xLucHCEU9hbcVACWEkXxQ@mail.gmail.com>

In a truly shocking development, and to the everlasting shame of Cambridge
University Press, the CUP journal *China Quarterly* has removed 300
articles and reviews relating to Tibet and other topics, that the present
Chinese communist government finds ideologically troublesome.

Shame on CUP.

https://web.archive.org/web/20170818200703/https://qz.com/1056938/cambridge-university-press-china-quarterly-complies-with-censorship-removes-300-articles-on-topics-like-tiananmen-and-tibet-in-china/




?
--
Professor Dominik Wujastyk <http://ualberta.academia.edu/DominikWujastyk>
?,?

Singhmar Chair in Classical Indian Society and Polity
?,?

Department of History and Classics <http://historyandclassics.ualberta.ca/>
?,?
University of Alberta, Canada
?.?

South Asia at the U of A:

?sas.ualberta.ca?
??


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From karp at uw.edu.pl  Fri Aug 18 20:50:23 2017
From: karp at uw.edu.pl (Artur Karp)
Date: Fri, 18 Aug 17 22:50:23 +0200
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Cambridge University Press yields to PRC censorship
In-Reply-To: <CAKdt-CfOFj112Hce3z0Yec+y694Y5xLucHCEU9hbcVACWEkXxQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CALNcvFs4oezi52cAk0rp95a1vcyYsXRGBAuNheUaXcX_VUoq5A@mail.gmail.com>

>> Shame on CUP

I have no knowledge re.

But: what is the source of this particular journal's funding? Its major
source?

Artur Karp
Polska

2017-08-18 22:11 GMT+02:00 Dominik Wujastyk via INDOLOGY <
indology at list.indology.info>:

> In a truly shocking development, and to the everlasting shame of Cambridge
> University Press, the CUP journal *China Quarterly* has removed 300
> articles and reviews relating to Tibet and other topics, that the present
> Chinese communist government finds ideologically troublesome.
>
> Shame on CUP.
>
> https://web.archive.org/web/20170818200703/https://qz.com/
> 1056938/cambridge-university-press-china-quarterly-
> complies-with-censorship-removes-300-articles-on-
> topics-like-tiananmen-and-tibet-in-china/
>
>
>
> ?
> --
> Professor Dominik Wujastyk <http://ualberta.academia.edu/DominikWujastyk>
> ?,?
>
> Singhmar Chair in Classical Indian Society and Polity
> ?,?
>
> Department of History and Classics
> <http://historyandclassics.ualberta.ca/>
> ?,?
> University of Alberta, Canada
> ?.?
>
> South Asia at the U of A:
>
> ?sas.ualberta.ca?
> ??
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
> committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
> unsubscribe)
>


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From nagarajpaturi at gmail.com  Sat Aug 19 03:56:56 2017
From: nagarajpaturi at gmail.com (Nagaraj Paturi)
Date: Sat, 19 Aug 17 09:26:56 +0530
Subject: [INDOLOGY] sex and gender
In-Reply-To: <CAJGj9eaxbcJp8Py4-j_ueKJAY79Ssa7uEhfvAWVTJxG5+7XYtg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAJGj9eZQptFdMXdDqEOsayGHW_veqPQJ6N8rUFkh0AcjY4icrQ@mail.gmail.com>

In Mahabharata Vyasa depicts S'akuntala as chiding Dushyanta for not
accepting her as wife.

He describes her angry expressions as follows:


??????????????????????? ??????????????????? |

???????????????????? ?????????????????? || ??? 68-21||



She describes ?????? as worthy of arghya , archanaa.

????? ?????????? ?????? ???????????? ?????????? |

???????????? ???????? ??? ????? ????????????????? ||??? 68- 33||

She describes wife as the best friend (?????????? ??? ).

????? ?????? ????????? ?????? ?????????? ??? |

?????? ???? ??????????? ?????? ?????? ???????? || ??? 68-40||

She describes wife as contributing to the work efficiency of the husband.

??????????? ??????????? ??????? ????????? |

??????????? ?????????? ??????????? ????????????? || ??? 68-41||

She describes wife as the ultimate shelter of the man.

????????????? ???????? ??????????????? ?? |

?? ????? ? ??????????????????????? ??? ???? || ??? 68-43||

She describes wife as the best solace for the grief-stricken male.

???????? ?????????????????????????? ???? |

????????? ?????? ?????? ?????????? ?????????? || ??? 68-49||

She daunts him not to be confident about his not getting a witness for the
crime committed in privacy.

????????????? ? ?????? ????; ? ??????? ?????? ????? ??????? |

?? ?????? ?????? ???????; ??????????? ???? ?????? ????? || ??? 68-27||

?????? ????? ?????? ? ????????????? ?????? |

??????? ???? ??????? ??????????????????? || ??? 68-28||

On Thu, Aug 17, 2017 at 9:22 AM, Nagaraj Paturi <nagarajpaturi at gmail.com>
wrote:

> The customary statement draft by me has a mistake. It should have been
>
> The opinions expressed in the reference provided by* the posting member
> of the list *are totally the opinions or ideas or findings  of the
> authors. They need not necessarily be the opinions of the member providing
> the reference"
>
> not
>
>
> The opinions expressed in the reference provided by the authors are
> totally the opinions or ideas or findings  of the authors. They need not
> necessarily be the opinions of the member providing the reference"
>
>
> On Thu, Aug 17, 2017 at 9:19 AM, Nagaraj Paturi <nagarajpaturi at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Dear Patrick,
>>
>> The thread initiator Shyam-ji asked for discussions on the topic. The
>> replying persons are posting references to articles etc. Mine was one such
>> post.
>>
>> Your response seems to necessitate a customary statement
>>
>>  "The opinions expressed in the reference provided by the authors are
>> totally the opinions or ideas or findings  of the authors. They need not
>> necessarily be the opinions of the member providing the reference"
>>
>>
>> to be added to every such reference providing post, unless otherwise the
>> content of such a statement is taken for granted by the reading members as
>> is currently being done.
>>
>> Prof. Bharat Gupt has never been my 'colleague' as you wrongly assume.
>>
>> After stating that flawed assumption of you , you go on pouring your
>> statements with repeated YOU, YOU sentences taking all the sentences in the
>> report to which I provided reference as my sentences, my statements and my
>> opinions.
>>
>> I don't think the ideas in the movie Lipstick are yours.
>>
>> You provided a link to a critique of the film.
>>
>> I did not provide any link to a critique of Prof. Gupt's piece. I need
>> not. Nevertheless, the ideas expressed in that piece need not necessarily
>> be mine.
>>
>> The context is not our ideas on gender.
>>
>> The topic is discussion of it in ancient Sanskrit sources.
>>
>> The piece to which I directed, mentions such sources. The value of the
>> piece in the context of the present thread is only to that extent.
>>
>> Prof. Gupt's own opinions may make a topic for a new thread.
>>
>> The sources cited in the piece take the coverage in the references being
>> cited to the gender categories beyond male, female that are discussed in
>> all other references in the thread.
>>
>> That is the point that deserves attention here.
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Aug 17, 2017 at 7:41 AM, patrick mccartney <
>> psdmccartney at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Nagaraj,
>>>
>>> It sounds like this habitat centre talk was more a homophobic hate group
>>> than anything else.
>>>
>>> These assertions *>>**Some difference between gay partnership and
>>> heterosexual marriage is necessary. He argued that children adopted by
>>> gays are very likely going to acquire a gay syndrome. This is going to be
>>> unhealthy for the institution of family which is already under many threats
>>> and is almost on the verge of extinction in Europe and America.*
>>>
>>> are absolutely ludicrous. I do not see how someone like yourself is able
>>> to articulate a sentence with the phrase "gay syndrome" in it, as if it has
>>> an idiopathic etiology, and, as you implicitly phrase, a problem. Perhaps
>>> we should get Ramdev's yoga involved to cure this 'mental illness'?
>>>
>>> You and your colleagues seem exceptionally misinformed about child
>>> wellbeing. I would strongly urge you to explore the literature on
>>> children's wellbeing in gay families - which is abundant, here is one
>>> example: https://aifs.gov.au/cfca/publications/same-sex-parented-fami
>>> lies-australia/childrens-wellbeing-same-sex-parented-families
>>>
>>> Further to the point, if you are going to talk about the decline of
>>> population as directly caused by, as you put it, 'the gays', and if
>>> Putin, etc is so worried about population decline, perhaps they should look
>>> at the neo-liberal system that places excessive economic pressure and job
>>> instability on the younger generations, who feel unable to actually support
>>> a family, and hence, either choose to not marry, marry later, or not have
>>> kids at all https://www.economist.com/blogs/economist-explains/2014/07/e
>>> conomist-explains-16
>>>
>>> Also, a significant problem is the 50% reduction in the viability of
>>> male semen https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2818620/
>>>
>>> How can you honestly say that the LGBTI population, which across the
>>> globe makes up less than 5% of the population, is to blame for wrecking
>>> families,
>>> *>> Under the garb of providing equality the same right lobby is going
>>> to create greater instability as gay marriages do not hold any particular
>>> assurances of stability.*
>>>
>>> NO MARRIAGE HOLDS ANY PARTICULAR ASSURANCE OF STABILITY.
>>>
>>> I'll give you a very personal, anecdotal example. My auntie is a lesbian
>>> and has been in a stable, monogamous relationship for over 30 years. I know
>>> of many stable homosexual partnerships that have lasted as long, if not
>>> longer, than many heterosexual partnerships.
>>>
>>>  How can the 'gay syndrome' be the cause of the decline of the family,
>>> when most families are nominally heterosexual, and they are the ones that
>>> are responsible for estrangement and divorce?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> All the best,
>>>
>>> Patrick McCartney, PhD
>>> Fellow
>>> School of Culture, History & Language
>>> College of the Asia-Pacific
>>> The Australian National University
>>> Canberra, Australia, 0200
>>>
>>>
>>> Skype - psdmccartney
>>> Phone + Whatsapp:  +61 414 954 748
>>> Twitter - @psdmccartney
>>>
>>>
>>> *bodhap?rvam calema* ;-)
>>>
>>> academia <https://patrickmccartney.academia.edu/>
>>>
>>>    -
>>>
>>> Linkedin
>>> <https://www.linkedin.com/profile/view?id=241756978&trk=nav_responsive_tab_profile>
>>>
>>> Edanz
>>> <https://www.edanzediting.com/expert/anthropology/patrick-mccartney>
>>>
>>> Conversation
>>> <https://theconversation.com/profiles/patrick-mccartney-phd-136054>
>>>
>>> YogaTrade
>>> <https://yogatrade.com/resume/dr-dts7idm-anthropologist-phd-shanti-mandir-authenticity-economy-and-emotion-in-a-yoga-ashram-visiting-fellow-australian-national-university/>
>>>
>>> Modern Yoga Research <http://www.modernyogaresearch.org/events/>
>>>
>>> #yogabodyANU2016 symposium <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X80KxW2bb0w>
>>>
>>> <http://chl.anu.edu.au/news-events/events/658/yoga-and-body-past-and-present-symposium?#tab>
>>>
>>> Yoga Fundamentalism - Part 1
>>> <http://www.politicaltheology.com/blog/yoga-practitioners-and-the-unspoken-global-aspirations-of-indian-ethno-nationalism-patrick-mccartney/>
>>>
>>>
>>> <http://www.politicaltheology.com/blog/is-the-global-prestige-of-sanskrit-aiding-and-abetting-hindu-nationalists-and-supremacists-patrick-mccartney_/>
>>> Yoga Fundamentalism - Part 2
>>> <http://www.politicaltheology.com/blog/is-the-global-prestige-of-sanskrit-aiding-and-abetting-hindu-nationalists-and-supremacists-patrick-mccartney_/>
>>>
>>>
>>> <http://oicd.net/ge/index.php/politics-beyond-yoga-mat-yoga-fundamentalism-vedic-way-life/>
>>> Politics beyond the yoga mat
>>> <http://oicd.net/ge/index.php/politics-beyond-yoga-mat-yoga-fundamentalism-vedic-way-life/>
>>>
>>> The Sanitising Power of Spoken Sanskrit
>>> <https://www.academia.edu/6274287/The_sanitising_power_of_spoken_Sanskrit>
>>>
>>> Imagining Sanskrit Land
>>> <https://www.academia.edu/32694583/IMAGINING_SANSKRIT_LAND_ARENA_MAGAZINE_ARTICLE>
>>>
>>> Ep1 - Imagining Sanskrit Land <https://youtu.be/jMi7tkPBbJ4>
>>>
>>> Ep 2 - Total-am <https://youtu.be/7tAp8m9RHPU>
>>>
>>> Ep 3 - Jalam ? Chillum <https://youtu.be/cLZeuCT_mwQ>
>>>
>>> Ep 4 - It's Time to get Married
>>> <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_B3un7aHEAc>
>>>
>>> A Day in our Ashram
>>> <https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=ek+din+hamaare+ashram+mein>
>>>
>>> OzHarvest <https://youtu.be/r1E-XWWBmvw>
>>>
>>> Stop animation short film of Shakuntala
>>> <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LVqBD_2P4Pg>
>>>
>>> Forced to Clean Human Waste <http://youtu.be/y3XfjbwqC_g>
>>>
>>> One of my favourite song
>>> <http://trinityroots.bandcamp.com/track/all-we-be>s
>>>
>>> The Philosophy of Cycling
>>> <http://elibrary.com.ng/UploadFiles/file0_2221.pdf>
>>>
>>> Plato's Cave
>>> <http://www.openculture.com/2011/07/orson_welles_narrates_platos_cave_allegory.html>
>>>
>>> Endangered Languages MOOC
>>> <https://www.edx.org/course/language-revival-securing-future-adelaidex-lang101x>
>>>
>>> Blackfella-Whitefella <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M_DHwp5vYBI>
>>>
>>> Triction <http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=triction>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wed, Aug 16, 2017 at 8:28 PM, Nagaraj Paturi via INDOLOGY <
>>> indology at list.indology.info> wrote:
>>>
>>>> This is a report published in another list:
>>>>
>>>> Prof *Bharat Gupt*, a classicist and dharma shastra scholar gave a
>>>> talk at the Habitat Centre on Nov 25 on "Hindu View of
>>>> Homosexuality." He examined the issue along with a fellow speaker and
>>>> discussant Dr. Come Carpentier. He observed that talking about the
>>>> Rights of the Homosexual/Gay individuals seems to be one of the major
>>>> agendas of social reforms in India today. Many people think that ancient
>>>> Hindu ideas were entirely compatible with the views of modern European and
>>>> American notions.
>>>>
>>>>     Therefore it was imperative that one goes to see the classical
>>>> texts to collect evidence on the status and life of homoerotic individuals
>>>> in ancient India. One hears all the time, he said,  the usual sentiment
>>>> that as Hinduism is a very tolerant culture, that it was totally open
>>>> homosexuality and that it was more modern than the moderns. Many people
>>>> argue, like the scholars of the Hare Krishna order, that as Hinduism
>>>> believes that every human being is part of Supreme Being Brahma,
>>>> homosexuals cannot be considered as beings of lower category. They also
>>>> think, with out any evidence,  that in the Vedic age, homosexuals were
>>>> fully integrated into social and monastic orders. Prof Guptsaid that
>>>> most of these sentiments are uninformed.
>>>>
>>>>     Talking about the textual evidence, Prof Gupt mentioned that the
>>>> *KAMASUTRA* of Vatsyayana, does define a third order of humans called
>>>> the *'tritiiyaa prakriti'* or third nature. This third nature persons
>>>> are of two kinds, one of the female kind and the other of the male sort *("dvividhaa
>>>> tritiityaaprkritih, striiruupinii* *purusharuupinii ca."* 2.9.1).
>>>> Vatsyayana goes on to say that "she", who behaves like a woman, is to be
>>>> employed for oral sex ("*tasyaa vadane jaganakarma tadauparisht.akamm
>>>> aachakshate"* 2.9.3). She was a paid sex-worker like a courtesan (*'vaishyaavat
>>>> charitam prakaashayet'* 2.9.5) . For the male kind who has the desire
>>>> for males but who cannot make her nature very evident, 'he' should take to
>>>> the profession of massage-giver and thus coming into contact with males
>>>> satisfy them through oral sex (2.9.6-10). In this context the act of
>>>> *auparisht.aka* is described in detail in the *Kamasutra*.
>>>>
>>>>     The ancient Hindu society, as is evident here, did not consider the
>>>> homosexuals as perverts or sinners. As the term, *tritiiya-prakriti* or
>>>> third nature describes them, they are being themselves, they are being
>>>> natural. This is the primary difference between the Christian and the Hindu
>>>> attitude. Christianity did not accept the third nature and hence imposed a
>>>> punishment on their activities.
>>>>
>>>>     For the Hindu social order the homoerotic were not expected to
>>>> follow the heterosexual norms of behaviour. So they cannot be blamed for
>>>> being what they are. And for this reason, accepting their nature, they were
>>>> not excommunicated or purged from human societies. They had to be given a
>>>> place in it and they were to be protected and prevented from harm by the
>>>> State. The *Arthashastra *prescribes a fine for those who persecuted a
>>>> homoerotic person (3.18.4) and it does not prohibits making of eunuchs
>>>> even  in the conquered population by a king by castrating captured males of
>>>> the vanquished (13.5.13). Thus Hindu society accepted the third nature of
>>>> persons who were born with it and did not want to replicate them for any
>>>> purpose of social engineering. Prof Gupt said that Christians promoted
>>>> homosexuals to practice religious castration and Muslims profusely
>>>> castrated the vanquished populations to create classes of menial and
>>>> warrior slaves. Dr. Come Carpentier pointed out that modern corporations
>>>> want to promote homoeroticism as homosexuals not having the burden of
>>>> families are great consumerists and hence great customers.
>>>>
>>>>     While accepting the third nature persons, the ancient Hindus gave
>>>> them a special place in the social order. They were designated to be part
>>>> of the class of sex-workers and performers of music and dance. As till
>>>> around the 10 century prostitution was a legal profession, taxed and
>>>> protected by the State and enshrined as duty of the king in the
>>>> dharmashastra texts, the homoerotics as part of the class of courtesans,
>>>> musicians, dancers and performers had the legal protection and their
>>>> incomes and their sustenance ensured. This position was certainly not
>>>> respectable and was disadvantaged, as it was of a lower category. In fact,
>>>> it was out of the *varna* order or *varnabaahya*. But they also had
>>>> the freedom/advantage of not having any obligations of adopting/ raising
>>>> any children or performing the rituals for ancestor worship which was a
>>>> major obligation for the *varna* Hindus. Difficult for us to imagine
>>>> today, it was a free life in a major way.
>>>>
>>>>     Prof Gupt pointed out that ancient Hindu society envisaged
>>>> marriage as primarily devoted to procreation and raising of able and
>>>> educated individuals who would contribute to society by performing duties
>>>> to living and the ancestors. While pleasure (*rati*) was one aspect of
>>>> sexuality, *dharma* (obligations) and *artha* (commerce) and moksha
>>>> (liberation) were the other three. As the kinnars were not capable of doing
>>>> obligations they were made into a special class and given a *jati* or
>>>> guild. It may also be pointed out that many homoerotics, impotents or
>>>> sperm-count deficient persons continued to be part of usual varnas and
>>>> jatis. Ways were found to provide them heirs one method being niyoga.
>>>>
>>>>         Coming to the present day situation, Prof Gupt said that
>>>> historical developments have jumbled up the ancient solution. The Islamic
>>>> intervention in the medieval period altered the status and social
>>>> acceptability of the homoerotic class. The performing arts of theatre and
>>>> dance were now taboo in urban life and prostitution lost its legal
>>>> and respectable status though still preserving itself as a repository of
>>>> music and dance. However, homoerotics had a much greater employment in
>>>> harems of Sultans and Rajas and a connection with espionage as of yore.
>>>>
>>>>     It is the British who delivered the stroke of grace for the
>>>> homoerotics. The Biblical and Christian prejudice against sodomy turned the
>>>> kinnars of India into criminals. It delegitimized the profession they had
>>>> earlier and prevented them from taking to a new one. As Indians have been
>>>> too slow to alter the Criminal Procedure Code, the section stating
>>>> punishment for homoerotic contact has not been still eliminated from Indian
>>>> Law. It should be soon done away with the traditional freedom restored. But
>>>> the dismemberment of these people from social order created by the British
>>>> cannot be restored so easily. It would take some serious research to find
>>>> out what are they now tending towards as professions. At a cursory glance
>>>> one may say they are to be found a lot in fashion and film industry.
>>>>
>>>>     Prof Gupt, then commented upon the contentious issue seizing the
>>>> arena of debate, whether gay marriage should be legalized or not. He
>>>> expressed his candid opinion that while gay cohabitation should not be
>>>> illegal, persecuted or even frowned upon, giving the same rights to gaycohabiters
>>>> as to the married heterosexuals couples is not advisable. Some difference
>>>> between gay partnership and heterosexual marriage is necessary.
>>>> He argued that children adopted by gays are very likely going to acquire a
>>>> gay syndrome. This is going to be unhealthy for the institution of
>>>> family which is already under many threats and is almost on the verge of
>>>> extinction in Europe and America.
>>>>
>>>>     Dr. Come Carpentier made the most revealing suggestion that Western
>>>> fascination with homoeroticism is based on consumerism. Under the garb of
>>>> providing equality the same right lobby is going to create greater
>>>> instability as gay marriages do not hold any particular assurances of
>>>> stability. He agreed that adopted children of gays are very likely to be
>>>> gay and thus we create unnatural gays. Putin has explicitly stated
>>>> that Russia under a population decline and they need more children which
>>>> gay marriages are not going to provide. Dr.Carpentier said, that gays
>>>> are asking asking for unrestricted cohabitation, then property inheritance
>>>> and finally all the parity with non-gay marriage.
>>>>
>>>>     The talk was followed by a very animated and prolonged discussion.
>>>> Many in the audience believed that there should be no discrimination and as
>>>> increasing the population was no longer a necessity in the modern world,
>>>> gay marriages are in no way detrimental to society while others
>>>> thought them bad for the instition named as family.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Wed, Aug 16, 2017 at 2:52 PM, Lubom?r Ondra?ka via INDOLOGY <
>>>> indology at list.indology.info> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Dear Shyam,
>>>>>
>>>>> in such a case, a normal starting point would be any standard
>>>>> reference work. I would recommend e.g. Brill's Encyclopedia of Hinduism.
>>>>> The main article on this topic, Karen Pechilis' entry "Gender" (vol. 4, pp.
>>>>> 788-805), has an extensive and up-to-date bibliography. Plus this theme is
>>>>> discussed in several other entries in this Encyclopedia (they are easily to
>>>>> be found using an index).
>>>>>
>>>>> Best,
>>>>> Lubomir
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Tue, 15 Aug 2017 22:44:14 -0400
>>>>> Shyam Ranganathan via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> > Dear all,
>>>>> >
>>>>> > This is a question from a colleague who is not on the list. This
>>>>> > colleague teaches a course on Sex and Gender theory and is
>>>>> interested in
>>>>> > articles that addresses the topic from differing cultural vantages. I
>>>>> > was asked about what was available on the topic that discusses the
>>>>> issue
>>>>> > from the perspective of the Indian tradition.  I didn't know what to
>>>>> > say. I'd be grateful for any suggestions.
>>>>> >
>>>>> > Thanks,
>>>>> >
>>>>> > Shyam
>>>>> >
>>>>> >
>>>>> > --
>>>>> >
>>>>> > ShyamRanganathan
>>>>> >
>>>>> > MA,MA, PhD
>>>>> >
>>>>> > Department of Philosophy
>>>>> >
>>>>> > York University, Toronto
>>>>> >
>>>>> > shyam-ranganathan.info <http://shyam-ranganathan.info/>
>>>>> >
>>>>> > /The Bloomsbury Research Handbook of Indian Ethics
>>>>> > <http://www.bloomsbury.com/uk/the-bloomsbury-research-handbo
>>>>> ok-of-indian-ethics-9781472587770/>/
>>>>> >
>>>>> > /Pata?jali`s Yoga S?tras
>>>>> > <http://penguin.co.in/book/classics/patanjalis-yoga-sutra/>/
>>>>> (Translation,
>>>>> > Edition and Commentary)
>>>>> >
>>>>> > /Translating Evaluative Discourse: The Semantics of Thick and Thin
>>>>> > Concepts <https://philpapers.org/rec/SHYTED>/
>>>>> >
>>>>> > Full List, Publications <https://philpapers.org/s/shya
>>>>> m%20ranganathan>
>>>>> >
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>>>>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>>>>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
>>>>> committee)
>>>>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options
>>>>> or unsubscribe)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Nagaraj Paturi
>>>>
>>>> Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> BoS, MIT School of Vedic Sciences, Pune, Maharashtra
>>>>
>>>> BoS, Chinmaya Vishwavidyapeeth, Veliyanad, Kerala
>>>>
>>>> Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies
>>>>
>>>> FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of  Liberal Education,
>>>>
>>>> (Pune, Maharashtra, INDIA )
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>>>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>>>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
>>>> committee)
>>>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options
>>>> or unsubscribe)
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Nagaraj Paturi
>>
>> Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.
>>
>>
>> BoS, MIT School of Vedic Sciences, Pune, Maharashtra
>>
>> BoS, Chinmaya Vishwavidyapeeth, Veliyanad, Kerala
>>
>> Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies
>>
>> FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of  Liberal Education,
>>
>> (Pune, Maharashtra, INDIA )
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Nagaraj Paturi
>
> Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.
>
>
> BoS, MIT School of Vedic Sciences, Pune, Maharashtra
>
> BoS, Chinmaya Vishwavidyapeeth, Veliyanad, Kerala
>
> Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies
>
> FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of  Liberal Education,
>
> (Pune, Maharashtra, INDIA )
>
>
>
>



-- 
Nagaraj Paturi

Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.


BoS, MIT School of Vedic Sciences, Pune, Maharashtra

BoS, Chinmaya Vishwavidyapeeth, Veliyanad, Kerala

Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies

FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of  Liberal Education,

(Pune, Maharashtra, INDIA )


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From nagarajpaturi at gmail.com  Sat Aug 19 05:58:29 2017
From: nagarajpaturi at gmail.com (Nagaraj Paturi)
Date: Sat, 19 Aug 17 11:28:29 +0530
Subject: [INDOLOGY] sex and gender
In-Reply-To: <CAJGj9eZQptFdMXdDqEOsayGHW_veqPQJ6N8rUFkh0AcjY4icrQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAJGj9ebiKjmXu0oE_wZjfmNmqJ3VAXoSVr9uRfu5=8qSFREngA@mail.gmail.com>

" Women of Power in Hindu Tradition" by Vasudha Narayanan in

Feminism and World Religionsedited by Arvind Sharma, Katherine K. Young


here
<https://books.google.co.in/books?id=OGxL4YCX4AYC&pg=PA39&lpg=PA39&dq=akkamahadevi+shiva+beyond+gender&source=bl&ots=1Db_4SRQIC&sig=auQAtVKR0_gqPDJo1AEUxQanrNY&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjSr4ftuuLVAhWBLI8KHex1AjwQ6AEIUzAL#v=onepage&q=akkamahadevi%20shiva%20beyond%20gender&f=false>

On Sat, Aug 19, 2017 at 9:26 AM, Nagaraj Paturi <nagarajpaturi at gmail.com>
wrote:

> In Mahabharata Vyasa depicts S'akuntala as chiding Dushyanta for not
> accepting her as wife.
>
> He describes her angry expressions as follows:
>
>
> ??????????????????????? ??????????????????? |
>
> ???????????????????? ?????????????????? || ??? 68-21||
>
>
>
> She describes ?????? as worthy of arghya , archanaa.
>
> ????? ?????????? ?????? ???????????? ?????????? |
>
> ???????????? ???????? ??? ????? ????????????????? ||??? 68- 33||
>
> She describes wife as the best friend (?????????? ??? ).
>
> ????? ?????? ????????? ?????? ?????????? ??? |
>
> ?????? ???? ??????????? ?????? ?????? ???????? || ??? 68-40||
>
> She describes wife as contributing to the work efficiency of the husband.
>
> ??????????? ??????????? ??????? ????????? |
>
> ??????????? ?????????? ??????????? ????????????? || ??? 68-41||
>
> She describes wife as the ultimate shelter of the man.
>
> ????????????? ???????? ??????????????? ?? |
>
> ?? ????? ? ??????????????????????? ??? ???? || ??? 68-43||
>
> She describes wife as the best solace for the grief-stricken male.
>
> ???????? ?????????????????????????? ???? |
>
> ????????? ?????? ?????? ?????????? ?????????? || ??? 68-49||
>
> She daunts him not to be confident about his not getting a witness for the
> crime committed in privacy.
>
> ????????????? ? ?????? ????; ? ??????? ?????? ????? ??????? |
>
> ?? ?????? ?????? ???????; ??????????? ???? ?????? ????? || ??? 68-27||
>
> ?????? ????? ?????? ? ????????????? ?????? |
>
> ??????? ???? ??????? ??????????????????? || ??? 68-28||
>
> On Thu, Aug 17, 2017 at 9:22 AM, Nagaraj Paturi <nagarajpaturi at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> The customary statement draft by me has a mistake. It should have been
>>
>> The opinions expressed in the reference provided by* the posting member
>> of the list *are totally the opinions or ideas or findings  of the
>> authors. They need not necessarily be the opinions of the member providing
>> the reference"
>>
>> not
>>
>>
>> The opinions expressed in the reference provided by the authors are
>> totally the opinions or ideas or findings  of the authors. They need not
>> necessarily be the opinions of the member providing the reference"
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Aug 17, 2017 at 9:19 AM, Nagaraj Paturi <nagarajpaturi at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Dear Patrick,
>>>
>>> The thread initiator Shyam-ji asked for discussions on the topic. The
>>> replying persons are posting references to articles etc. Mine was one such
>>> post.
>>>
>>> Your response seems to necessitate a customary statement
>>>
>>>  "The opinions expressed in the reference provided by the authors are
>>> totally the opinions or ideas or findings  of the authors. They need not
>>> necessarily be the opinions of the member providing the reference"
>>>
>>>
>>> to be added to every such reference providing post, unless otherwise the
>>> content of such a statement is taken for granted by the reading members as
>>> is currently being done.
>>>
>>> Prof. Bharat Gupt has never been my 'colleague' as you wrongly assume.
>>>
>>> After stating that flawed assumption of you , you go on pouring your
>>> statements with repeated YOU, YOU sentences taking all the sentences in the
>>> report to which I provided reference as my sentences, my statements and my
>>> opinions.
>>>
>>> I don't think the ideas in the movie Lipstick are yours.
>>>
>>> You provided a link to a critique of the film.
>>>
>>> I did not provide any link to a critique of Prof. Gupt's piece. I need
>>> not. Nevertheless, the ideas expressed in that piece need not necessarily
>>> be mine.
>>>
>>> The context is not our ideas on gender.
>>>
>>> The topic is discussion of it in ancient Sanskrit sources.
>>>
>>> The piece to which I directed, mentions such sources. The value of the
>>> piece in the context of the present thread is only to that extent.
>>>
>>> Prof. Gupt's own opinions may make a topic for a new thread.
>>>
>>> The sources cited in the piece take the coverage in the references being
>>> cited to the gender categories beyond male, female that are discussed in
>>> all other references in the thread.
>>>
>>> That is the point that deserves attention here.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, Aug 17, 2017 at 7:41 AM, patrick mccartney <
>>> psdmccartney at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Nagaraj,
>>>>
>>>> It sounds like this habitat centre talk was more a homophobic hate
>>>> group than anything else.
>>>>
>>>> These assertions *>>**Some difference between gay partnership and
>>>> heterosexual marriage is necessary. He argued that children adopted by
>>>> gays are very likely going to acquire a gay syndrome. This is going to be
>>>> unhealthy for the institution of family which is already under many threats
>>>> and is almost on the verge of extinction in Europe and America.*
>>>>
>>>> are absolutely ludicrous. I do not see how someone like yourself is
>>>> able to articulate a sentence with the phrase "gay syndrome" in it, as if
>>>> it has an idiopathic etiology, and, as you implicitly phrase, a problem.
>>>> Perhaps we should get Ramdev's yoga involved to cure this 'mental illness'?
>>>>
>>>> You and your colleagues seem exceptionally misinformed about child
>>>> wellbeing. I would strongly urge you to explore the literature on
>>>> children's wellbeing in gay families - which is abundant, here is one
>>>> example: https://aifs.gov.au/cfca/publications/same-sex-parented-fami
>>>> lies-australia/childrens-wellbeing-same-sex-parented-families
>>>>
>>>> Further to the point, if you are going to talk about the decline of
>>>> population as directly caused by, as you put it, 'the gays', and if
>>>> Putin, etc is so worried about population decline, perhaps they should look
>>>> at the neo-liberal system that places excessive economic pressure and job
>>>> instability on the younger generations, who feel unable to actually support
>>>> a family, and hence, either choose to not marry, marry later, or not have
>>>> kids at all https://www.economist.com/blog
>>>> s/economist-explains/2014/07/economist-explains-16
>>>>
>>>> Also, a significant problem is the 50% reduction in the viability of
>>>> male semen https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2818620/
>>>>
>>>> How can you honestly say that the LGBTI population, which across the
>>>> globe makes up less than 5% of the population, is to blame for wrecking
>>>> families,
>>>> *>> Under the garb of providing equality the same right lobby is going
>>>> to create greater instability as gay marriages do not hold any particular
>>>> assurances of stability.*
>>>>
>>>> NO MARRIAGE HOLDS ANY PARTICULAR ASSURANCE OF STABILITY.
>>>>
>>>> I'll give you a very personal, anecdotal example. My auntie is a
>>>> lesbian and has been in a stable, monogamous relationship for over 30
>>>> years. I know of many stable homosexual partnerships that have lasted as
>>>> long, if not longer, than many heterosexual partnerships.
>>>>
>>>>  How can the 'gay syndrome' be the cause of the decline of the family,
>>>> when most families are nominally heterosexual, and they are the ones that
>>>> are responsible for estrangement and divorce?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> All the best,
>>>>
>>>> Patrick McCartney, PhD
>>>> Fellow
>>>> School of Culture, History & Language
>>>> College of the Asia-Pacific
>>>> The Australian National University
>>>> Canberra, Australia, 0200
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Skype - psdmccartney
>>>> Phone + Whatsapp:  +61 414 954 748
>>>> Twitter - @psdmccartney
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> *bodhap?rvam calema* ;-)
>>>>
>>>> academia <https://patrickmccartney.academia.edu/>
>>>>
>>>>    -
>>>>
>>>> Linkedin
>>>> <https://www.linkedin.com/profile/view?id=241756978&trk=nav_responsive_tab_profile>
>>>>
>>>> Edanz
>>>> <https://www.edanzediting.com/expert/anthropology/patrick-mccartney>
>>>>
>>>> Conversation
>>>> <https://theconversation.com/profiles/patrick-mccartney-phd-136054>
>>>>
>>>> YogaTrade
>>>> <https://yogatrade.com/resume/dr-dts7idm-anthropologist-phd-shanti-mandir-authenticity-economy-and-emotion-in-a-yoga-ashram-visiting-fellow-australian-national-university/>
>>>>
>>>> Modern Yoga Research <http://www.modernyogaresearch.org/events/>
>>>>
>>>> #yogabodyANU2016 symposium
>>>> <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X80KxW2bb0w>
>>>> <http://chl.anu.edu.au/news-events/events/658/yoga-and-body-past-and-present-symposium?#tab>
>>>>
>>>> Yoga Fundamentalism - Part 1
>>>> <http://www.politicaltheology.com/blog/yoga-practitioners-and-the-unspoken-global-aspirations-of-indian-ethno-nationalism-patrick-mccartney/>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> <http://www.politicaltheology.com/blog/is-the-global-prestige-of-sanskrit-aiding-and-abetting-hindu-nationalists-and-supremacists-patrick-mccartney_/>
>>>> Yoga Fundamentalism - Part 2
>>>> <http://www.politicaltheology.com/blog/is-the-global-prestige-of-sanskrit-aiding-and-abetting-hindu-nationalists-and-supremacists-patrick-mccartney_/>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> <http://oicd.net/ge/index.php/politics-beyond-yoga-mat-yoga-fundamentalism-vedic-way-life/>
>>>> Politics beyond the yoga mat
>>>> <http://oicd.net/ge/index.php/politics-beyond-yoga-mat-yoga-fundamentalism-vedic-way-life/>
>>>>
>>>> The Sanitising Power of Spoken Sanskrit
>>>> <https://www.academia.edu/6274287/The_sanitising_power_of_spoken_Sanskrit>
>>>>
>>>> Imagining Sanskrit Land
>>>> <https://www.academia.edu/32694583/IMAGINING_SANSKRIT_LAND_ARENA_MAGAZINE_ARTICLE>
>>>>
>>>> Ep1 - Imagining Sanskrit Land <https://youtu.be/jMi7tkPBbJ4>
>>>>
>>>> Ep 2 - Total-am <https://youtu.be/7tAp8m9RHPU>
>>>>
>>>> Ep 3 - Jalam ? Chillum <https://youtu.be/cLZeuCT_mwQ>
>>>>
>>>> Ep 4 - It's Time to get Married
>>>> <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_B3un7aHEAc>
>>>>
>>>> A Day in our Ashram
>>>> <https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=ek+din+hamaare+ashram+mein>
>>>>
>>>> OzHarvest <https://youtu.be/r1E-XWWBmvw>
>>>>
>>>> Stop animation short film of Shakuntala
>>>> <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LVqBD_2P4Pg>
>>>>
>>>> Forced to Clean Human Waste <http://youtu.be/y3XfjbwqC_g>
>>>>
>>>> One of my favourite song
>>>> <http://trinityroots.bandcamp.com/track/all-we-be>s
>>>>
>>>> The Philosophy of Cycling
>>>> <http://elibrary.com.ng/UploadFiles/file0_2221.pdf>
>>>>
>>>> Plato's Cave
>>>> <http://www.openculture.com/2011/07/orson_welles_narrates_platos_cave_allegory.html>
>>>>
>>>> Endangered Languages MOOC
>>>> <https://www.edx.org/course/language-revival-securing-future-adelaidex-lang101x>
>>>>
>>>> Blackfella-Whitefella <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M_DHwp5vYBI>
>>>>
>>>> Triction <http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=triction>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Wed, Aug 16, 2017 at 8:28 PM, Nagaraj Paturi via INDOLOGY <
>>>> indology at list.indology.info> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> This is a report published in another list:
>>>>>
>>>>> Prof *Bharat Gupt*, a classicist and dharma shastra scholar gave a
>>>>> talk at the Habitat Centre on Nov 25 on "Hindu View of
>>>>> Homosexuality." He examined the issue along with a fellow speaker and
>>>>> discussant Dr. Come Carpentier. He observed that talking about the
>>>>> Rights of the Homosexual/Gay individuals seems to be one of the major
>>>>> agendas of social reforms in India today. Many people think that ancient
>>>>> Hindu ideas were entirely compatible with the views of modern European and
>>>>> American notions.
>>>>>
>>>>>     Therefore it was imperative that one goes to see the classical
>>>>> texts to collect evidence on the status and life of homoerotic individuals
>>>>> in ancient India. One hears all the time, he said,  the usual sentiment
>>>>> that as Hinduism is a very tolerant culture, that it was totally open
>>>>> homosexuality and that it was more modern than the moderns. Many people
>>>>> argue, like the scholars of the Hare Krishna order, that as Hinduism
>>>>> believes that every human being is part of Supreme Being Brahma,
>>>>> homosexuals cannot be considered as beings of lower category. They also
>>>>> think, with out any evidence,  that in the Vedic age, homosexuals were
>>>>> fully integrated into social and monastic orders. Prof Guptsaid that
>>>>> most of these sentiments are uninformed.
>>>>>
>>>>>     Talking about the textual evidence, Prof Gupt mentioned that the
>>>>> *KAMASUTRA* of Vatsyayana, does define a third order of humans called
>>>>> the *'tritiiyaa prakriti'* or third nature. This third nature persons
>>>>> are of two kinds, one of the female kind and the other of the male sort *("dvividhaa
>>>>> tritiityaaprkritih, striiruupinii* *purusharuupinii ca."* 2.9.1).
>>>>> Vatsyayana goes on to say that "she", who behaves like a woman, is to be
>>>>> employed for oral sex ("*tasyaa vadane jaganakarma tadauparisht.akamm
>>>>> aachakshate"* 2.9.3). She was a paid sex-worker like a courtesan (*'vaishyaavat
>>>>> charitam prakaashayet'* 2.9.5) . For the male kind who has the desire
>>>>> for males but who cannot make her nature very evident, 'he' should take to
>>>>> the profession of massage-giver and thus coming into contact with males
>>>>> satisfy them through oral sex (2.9.6-10). In this context the act of
>>>>> *auparisht.aka* is described in detail in the *Kamasutra*.
>>>>>
>>>>>     The ancient Hindu society, as is evident here, did not consider
>>>>> the homosexuals as perverts or sinners. As the term,
>>>>> *tritiiya-prakriti* or third nature describes them, they are being
>>>>> themselves, they are being natural. This is the primary difference between
>>>>> the Christian and the Hindu attitude. Christianity did not accept the third
>>>>> nature and hence imposed a punishment on their activities.
>>>>>
>>>>>     For the Hindu social order the homoerotic were not expected to
>>>>> follow the heterosexual norms of behaviour. So they cannot be blamed for
>>>>> being what they are. And for this reason, accepting their nature, they were
>>>>> not excommunicated or purged from human societies. They had to be given a
>>>>> place in it and they were to be protected and prevented from harm by the
>>>>> State. The *Arthashastra *prescribes a fine for those who persecuted
>>>>> a homoerotic person (3.18.4) and it does not prohibits making of eunuchs
>>>>> even  in the conquered population by a king by castrating captured males of
>>>>> the vanquished (13.5.13). Thus Hindu society accepted the third nature of
>>>>> persons who were born with it and did not want to replicate them for any
>>>>> purpose of social engineering. Prof Gupt said that Christians
>>>>> promoted homosexuals to practice religious castration and Muslims profusely
>>>>> castrated the vanquished populations to create classes of menial and
>>>>> warrior slaves. Dr. Come Carpentier pointed out that modern corporations
>>>>> want to promote homoeroticism as homosexuals not having the burden of
>>>>> families are great consumerists and hence great customers.
>>>>>
>>>>>     While accepting the third nature persons, the ancient Hindus gave
>>>>> them a special place in the social order. They were designated to be part
>>>>> of the class of sex-workers and performers of music and dance. As till
>>>>> around the 10 century prostitution was a legal profession, taxed and
>>>>> protected by the State and enshrined as duty of the king in the
>>>>> dharmashastra texts, the homoerotics as part of the class of courtesans,
>>>>> musicians, dancers and performers had the legal protection and their
>>>>> incomes and their sustenance ensured. This position was certainly not
>>>>> respectable and was disadvantaged, as it was of a lower category. In fact,
>>>>> it was out of the *varna* order or *varnabaahya*. But they also had
>>>>> the freedom/advantage of not having any obligations of adopting/ raising
>>>>> any children or performing the rituals for ancestor worship which was a
>>>>> major obligation for the *varna* Hindus. Difficult for us to imagine
>>>>> today, it was a free life in a major way.
>>>>>
>>>>>     Prof Gupt pointed out that ancient Hindu society envisaged
>>>>> marriage as primarily devoted to procreation and raising of able and
>>>>> educated individuals who would contribute to society by performing duties
>>>>> to living and the ancestors. While pleasure (*rati*) was one aspect
>>>>> of sexuality, *dharma* (obligations) and *artha* (commerce) and
>>>>> moksha (liberation) were the other three. As the kinnars were not capable
>>>>> of doing obligations they were made into a special class and given a
>>>>> *jati* or guild. It may also be pointed out that many homoerotics,
>>>>> impotents or sperm-count deficient persons continued to be part of usual
>>>>> varnas and jatis. Ways were found to provide them heirs one method
>>>>> being niyoga.
>>>>>
>>>>>         Coming to the present day situation, Prof Gupt said that
>>>>> historical developments have jumbled up the ancient solution. The Islamic
>>>>> intervention in the medieval period altered the status and social
>>>>> acceptability of the homoerotic class. The performing arts of theatre and
>>>>> dance were now taboo in urban life and prostitution lost its legal
>>>>> and respectable status though still preserving itself as a repository of
>>>>> music and dance. However, homoerotics had a much greater employment in
>>>>> harems of Sultans and Rajas and a connection with espionage as of yore.
>>>>>
>>>>>     It is the British who delivered the stroke of grace for the
>>>>> homoerotics. The Biblical and Christian prejudice against sodomy turned the
>>>>> kinnars of India into criminals. It delegitimized the profession they had
>>>>> earlier and prevented them from taking to a new one. As Indians have been
>>>>> too slow to alter the Criminal Procedure Code, the section stating
>>>>> punishment for homoerotic contact has not been still eliminated from Indian
>>>>> Law. It should be soon done away with the traditional freedom restored. But
>>>>> the dismemberment of these people from social order created by the British
>>>>> cannot be restored so easily. It would take some serious research to find
>>>>> out what are they now tending towards as professions. At a cursory glance
>>>>> one may say they are to be found a lot in fashion and film industry.
>>>>>
>>>>>     Prof Gupt, then commented upon the contentious issue seizing the
>>>>> arena of debate, whether gay marriage should be legalized or not. He
>>>>> expressed his candid opinion that while gay cohabitation should not
>>>>> be illegal, persecuted or even frowned upon, giving the same rights to
>>>>> gaycohabiters as to the married heterosexuals couples is not
>>>>> advisable. Some difference between gay partnership and heterosexual
>>>>> marriage is necessary. He argued that children adopted by gays are very
>>>>> likely going to acquire a gay syndrome. This is going to be unhealthy
>>>>> for the institution of family which is already under many threats and is
>>>>> almost on the verge of extinction in Europe and America.
>>>>>
>>>>>     Dr. Come Carpentier made the most revealing suggestion that
>>>>> Western fascination with homoeroticism is based on consumerism. Under the
>>>>> garb of providing equality the same right lobby is going to create greater
>>>>> instability as gay marriages do not hold any particular assurances of
>>>>> stability. He agreed that adopted children of gays are very likely to be
>>>>> gay and thus we create unnatural gays. Putin has explicitly stated
>>>>> that Russia under a population decline and they need more children which
>>>>> gay marriages are not going to provide. Dr.Carpentier said, that gays
>>>>> are asking asking for unrestricted cohabitation, then property inheritance
>>>>> and finally all the parity with non-gay marriage.
>>>>>
>>>>>     The talk was followed by a very animated and prolonged discussion.
>>>>> Many in the audience believed that there should be no discrimination and as
>>>>> increasing the population was no longer a necessity in the modern world,
>>>>> gay marriages are in no way detrimental to society while others
>>>>> thought them bad for the instition named as family.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Wed, Aug 16, 2017 at 2:52 PM, Lubom?r Ondra?ka via INDOLOGY <
>>>>> indology at list.indology.info> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Dear Shyam,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> in such a case, a normal starting point would be any standard
>>>>>> reference work. I would recommend e.g. Brill's Encyclopedia of Hinduism.
>>>>>> The main article on this topic, Karen Pechilis' entry "Gender" (vol. 4, pp.
>>>>>> 788-805), has an extensive and up-to-date bibliography. Plus this theme is
>>>>>> discussed in several other entries in this Encyclopedia (they are easily to
>>>>>> be found using an index).
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Best,
>>>>>> Lubomir
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Tue, 15 Aug 2017 22:44:14 -0400
>>>>>> Shyam Ranganathan via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> > Dear all,
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > This is a question from a colleague who is not on the list. This
>>>>>> > colleague teaches a course on Sex and Gender theory and is
>>>>>> interested in
>>>>>> > articles that addresses the topic from differing cultural vantages.
>>>>>> I
>>>>>> > was asked about what was available on the topic that discusses the
>>>>>> issue
>>>>>> > from the perspective of the Indian tradition.  I didn't know what to
>>>>>> > say. I'd be grateful for any suggestions.
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > Thanks,
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > Shyam
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > --
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > ShyamRanganathan
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > MA,MA, PhD
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > Department of Philosophy
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > York University, Toronto
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > shyam-ranganathan.info <http://shyam-ranganathan.info/>
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > /The Bloomsbury Research Handbook of Indian Ethics
>>>>>> > <http://www.bloomsbury.com/uk/the-bloomsbury-research-handbo
>>>>>> ok-of-indian-ethics-9781472587770/>/
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > /Pata?jali`s Yoga S?tras
>>>>>> > <http://penguin.co.in/book/classics/patanjalis-yoga-sutra/>/
>>>>>> (Translation,
>>>>>> > Edition and Commentary)
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > /Translating Evaluative Discourse: The Semantics of Thick and Thin
>>>>>> > Concepts <https://philpapers.org/rec/SHYTED>/
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > Full List, Publications <https://philpapers.org/s/shya
>>>>>> m%20ranganathan>
>>>>>> >
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>>>>>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>>>>>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
>>>>>> committee)
>>>>>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list
>>>>>> options or unsubscribe)
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Nagaraj Paturi
>>>>>
>>>>> Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> BoS, MIT School of Vedic Sciences, Pune, Maharashtra
>>>>>
>>>>> BoS, Chinmaya Vishwavidyapeeth, Veliyanad, Kerala
>>>>>
>>>>> Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies
>>>>>
>>>>> FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of  Liberal Education,
>>>>>
>>>>> (Pune, Maharashtra, INDIA )
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>>>>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>>>>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
>>>>> committee)
>>>>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options
>>>>> or unsubscribe)
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Nagaraj Paturi
>>>
>>> Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.
>>>
>>>
>>> BoS, MIT School of Vedic Sciences, Pune, Maharashtra
>>>
>>> BoS, Chinmaya Vishwavidyapeeth, Veliyanad, Kerala
>>>
>>> Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies
>>>
>>> FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of  Liberal Education,
>>>
>>> (Pune, Maharashtra, INDIA )
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Nagaraj Paturi
>>
>> Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.
>>
>>
>> BoS, MIT School of Vedic Sciences, Pune, Maharashtra
>>
>> BoS, Chinmaya Vishwavidyapeeth, Veliyanad, Kerala
>>
>> Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies
>>
>> FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of  Liberal Education,
>>
>> (Pune, Maharashtra, INDIA )
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Nagaraj Paturi
>
> Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.
>
>
> BoS, MIT School of Vedic Sciences, Pune, Maharashtra
>
> BoS, Chinmaya Vishwavidyapeeth, Veliyanad, Kerala
>
> Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies
>
> FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of  Liberal Education,
>
> (Pune, Maharashtra, INDIA )
>
>
>
>



-- 
Nagaraj Paturi

Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.


BoS, MIT School of Vedic Sciences, Pune, Maharashtra

BoS, Chinmaya Vishwavidyapeeth, Veliyanad, Kerala

Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies

FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of  Liberal Education,

(Pune, Maharashtra, INDIA )


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From emstern1948 at gmail.com  Sat Aug 19 20:18:24 2017
From: emstern1948 at gmail.com (Elliot Stern)
Date: Sat, 19 Aug 17 16:18:24 -0400
Subject: =?utf-8?Q?[INDOLOGY]_pa=E1=B9=85gu_/_pa=E1=B9=85ku_[2nd_sending]?=
Message-ID: <37031A24-847B-4254-8EFF-0072D828F22D@gmail.com>

I would like to draw on the collective manuscript reading experience of our list members. A Sanskrit word pa?gu is well known in dictionaries and printed texts. It denotes a ?lame person?. In a passage of the ms of svadita?kara??  (a palm leaf Malayalam script ms), a commentary on ny?yaka?ik?, this word appears only as pa?ku with many repetitions in a long comment on a line in vidhiviveka?.. It is possible to argue that this reading pa?ku should be corrected to pa?gu, because pa?ku and pa?gu are both pronounced the same in the Malayalam language (i.e., the k is pronounced as g). This argument, however, seems weak to me. First, other words like prasa?ga always appear as expected in the svadita?kara?? ms. Second, a most likely 16th century devan?gar? ms of ny?yaka?ik? certainly reads pa?ku in two of the three occurrences of pa?gu later in the commentary, and probably in all three of them (the first fifty or so folia of this ms, that would include the passage on which svadita?karra?? comments, are not available). In two of these instances, we see a correction to pa?gu, but one stands uncorrected. Third, the ms. of ju?adhva?kara?? (also a palm leaf Malayalam script ms) reads pa?ku a few times, and also consistently renders words like prasa?ga as expected.

I have two questions. First, have you seen the reading pa?ku, especially in mss not written in South Indian scripts? Second, are there any etymological or other discussions of the term pa?gu / pa?ku not referenced in standard works like Burrows' and Emeneau?s DED or the Turners?  CDIAL?

Elliot M.Stern







From rolfheiner.koch at gmail.com  Sun Aug 20 12:51:15 2017
From: rolfheiner.koch at gmail.com (Rolf Heinrich Koch)
Date: Sun, 20 Aug 17 14:51:15 +0200
Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_[INDOLOGY]_pa=E1=B9=85gu_/_pa=E1=B9=85ku_[2nd_sending]?=
In-Reply-To: <37031A24-847B-4254-8EFF-0072D828F22D@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <09c13d9e-dec9-242c-57dc-70723f0b1510@gmail.com>

Besides many quotations in Tamil-literature I know the following two 
references in Prakrit (Apabhra??a)-literature:

1. Svayambhu Paumacariu (Ramastory)

26.11.3: jo katth?riya-pa?kuppa?kiu? jo ari-karihi ?a ?ohevi sakkiu

2. Sanatkum?racaritam (H. Jacobi)

546: ...valaya-panku....

3.

In Sri Lanka I came across the word pa?ku meaning "share of (land 
etc.)".? This is probably of Tamil origin. Codrington: Ancient Land 
Tenure...,p. 15.

If the word denotes a share of land, then the etymological discussion 
should also think about the 5-ku?i-sized lands (pan-ku?i), and we are 
back in the Sanskrit-world.


Best

Heiner


Am 19.08.2017 um 22:18 schrieb Elliot Stern via INDOLOGY:
> I would like to draw on the collective manuscript reading experience of our list members. A Sanskrit word pa?gu is well known in dictionaries and printed texts. It denotes a ?lame person?. In a passage of the ms of svadita?kara??  (a palm leaf Malayalam script ms), a commentary on ny?yaka?ik?, this word appears only as pa?ku with many repetitions in a long comment on a line in vidhiviveka?.. It is possible to argue that this reading pa?ku should be corrected to pa?gu, because pa?ku and pa?gu are both pronounced the same in the Malayalam language (i.e., the k is pronounced as g). This argument, however, seems weak to me. First, other words like prasa?ga always appear as expected in the svadita?kara?? ms. Second, a most likely 16th century devan?gar? ms of ny?yaka?ik? certainly reads pa?ku in two of the three occurrences of pa?gu later in the commentary, and probably in all three of them (the first fifty or so folia of this ms, that would include the passage on which svadita?karra?? comments, are not available). In two of these instances, we see a correction to pa?gu, but one stands uncorrected. Third, the ms. of ju?adhva?kara?? (also a palm leaf Malayalam script ms) reads pa?ku a few times, and also consistently renders words like prasa?ga as expected.
>
> I have two questions. First, have you seen the reading pa?ku, especially in mss not written in South Indian scripts? Second, are there any etymological or other discussions of the term pa?gu / pa?ku not referenced in standard works like Burrows' and Emeneau?s DED or the Turners?  CDIAL?
>
> Elliot M.Stern
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe)

-- 
www.rolfheinrichkoch.wordpress.com







From emstern1948 at gmail.com  Sun Aug 20 16:51:08 2017
From: emstern1948 at gmail.com (Elliot Stern)
Date: Sun, 20 Aug 17 12:51:08 -0400
Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_[INDOLOGY]_pa=E1=B9=85gu_/_pa=E1=B9=85ku_[2nd_sending]?=
In-Reply-To: <09c13d9e-dec9-242c-57dc-70723f0b1510@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4818C1C0-155E-4191-A3BB-9C0CC1AF6741@gmail.com>

Thank you for these references, but none of these are pa?ku ?lame?.

Best wishes,

Elliot


> On 20 Aug  2017, at 08:51, Rolf Heinrich Koch via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info> wrote:
> 
> Besides many quotations in Tamil-literature I know the following two references in Prakrit (Apabhra??a)-literature:
> 
> 1. Svayambhu Paumacariu (Ramastory)
> 
> 26.11.3: jo katth?riya-pa?kuppa?kiu  jo ari-karihi ?a ?ohevi sakkiu

The semantic here is ?mud? or ?slime?.
> 
> 2. Sanatkum?racaritam (H. Jacobi)
> 
> 546: ...valaya-panku?.

The edition reads ? valaya-pauku ...
> 
> 3.
> 
> In Sri Lanka I came across the word pa?ku meaning "share of (land etc.)".  This is probably of Tamil origin. Codrington: Ancient Land Tenure...,p. 15.
> 
> If the word denotes a share of land, then the etymological discussion should also think about the 5-ku?i-sized lands (pan-ku?i), and we are back in the Sanskrit-world.
> 
> 
> Best
> 
> Heiner
> 
> 
> Am 19.08.2017 um 22:18 schrieb Elliot Stern via INDOLOGY:
>> I would like to draw on the collective manuscript reading experience of our list members. A Sanskrit word pa?gu is well known in dictionaries and printed texts. It denotes a ?lame person?. In a passage of the ms of svadita?kara??  (a palm leaf Malayalam script ms), a commentary on ny?yaka?ik?, this word appears only as pa?ku with many repetitions in a long comment on a line in vidhiviveka?.. It is possible to argue that this reading pa?ku should be corrected to pa?gu, because pa?ku and pa?gu are both pronounced the same in the Malayalam language (i.e., the k is pronounced as g). This argument, however, seems weak to me. First, other words like prasa?ga always appear as expected in the svadita?kara?? ms. Second, a most likely 16th century devan?gar? ms of ny?yaka?ik? certainly reads pa?ku in two of the three occurrences of pa?gu later in the commentary, and probably in all three of them (the first fifty or so folia of this ms, that would include the passage on which svadita?karra?? comments, are not available). In two of these instances, we see a correction to pa?gu, but one stands uncorrected. Third, the ms. of ju?adhva?kara?? (also a palm leaf Malayalam script ms) reads pa?ku a few times, and also consistently renders words like prasa?ga as expected.
>> 
>> I have two questions. First, have you seen the reading pa?ku, especially in mss not written in South Indian scripts? Second, are there any etymological or other discussions of the term pa?gu / pa?ku not referenced in standard works like Burrows' and Emeneau?s DED or the Turners?  CDIAL?
>> 
>> Elliot M.Stern
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee)
>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe)
> 
> -- 
> www.rolfheinrichkoch.wordpress.com
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe)






From skarashima at gmail.com  Mon Aug 21 00:41:49 2017
From: skarashima at gmail.com (Seishi Karashima)
Date: Mon, 21 Aug 17 09:41:49 +0900
Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_[INDOLOGY]_pa=E1=B9=85gu_/_pa=E1=B9=85ku_[2nd_sending]?=
In-Reply-To: <4818C1C0-155E-4191-A3BB-9C0CC1AF6741@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAEd5L8jk6V79v_DpkYaoxmXqndXD14_AAWDe+uX1=41WRXipMA@mail.gmail.com>

Dear colleagues,

Both examples have nothing to do with *pa?ku*~.


(1) The first example from the *Paumacariu*:

*katth?riya-pa?kuppa?kiu* < *kast?rik?* (?musk?)+ *pa?ka* (?unguent?) + *
*ut-pa?kita* (?besmeared?; cf. Naresh Kumar, *Apabhra??a-Hindi Dictionary*,
Nehru Nagar 1987: Indo-Vision Private Limited, vol. I, p. 124r, s.v.
*uppa?kiya*; cf. also Skt. *pa?kayati* ?besmears?).


(2) The second example from the *Sanatkum?racaritam*:

Jacobi?s edition (*Sanatkum?racaritam: Ein Abschnitt aus Haribhadras
Nemin?thacaritam. Eine Jaina Legende in Apabhra??a*, hrsg. von Hermann
Jacobi, M?nchen 1921: Verlag der Bayerischen Akademie der Wissenschaften,
p. 37) in fact reads *sayala-mahivalaya-panku* (i.e. -*pa?ku*). Only the
input data on the internet reads "*sayala-mahivalaya-pauku*". One must
discern "edition" made by the great scholar from "data" input by
somebody. *Sayala-mahivalaya-pa?ku
*means ?mud in the whole world? (?der Schlamm im ganzen Lande?, *ibid.*, p.
76). However, *pa?ku* is a *nom. sg. masc. form* of *pa?ka *in Apabhra??a.


Therefore, both examples quoted here are of *pa?ka*: (1) *pa?ka + u- *(*>
pa?ku-*), (2) nom. sg. masc. *pa?ku*.


With best regards,

Seishi Karashima

2017-08-21 1:51 GMT+09:00 Elliot Stern via INDOLOGY <
indology at list.indology.info>:

> Thank you for these references, but none of these are pa?ku ?lame?.
>
> Best wishes,
>
> Elliot
>
>
> > On 20 Aug  2017, at 08:51, Rolf Heinrich Koch via INDOLOGY <
> indology at list.indology.info> wrote:
> >
> > Besides many quotations in Tamil-literature I know the following two
> references in Prakrit (Apabhra??a)-literature:
> >
> > 1. Svayambhu Paumacariu (Ramastory)
> >
> > 26.11.3: jo katth?riya-pa?kuppa?kiu  jo ari-karihi ?a ?ohevi sakkiu
>
> The semantic here is ?mud? or ?slime?.
> >
> > 2. Sanatkum?racaritam (H. Jacobi)
> >
> > 546: ...valaya-panku?.
>
> The edition reads ? valaya-pauku ...
> >
> > 3.
> >
> > In Sri Lanka I came across the word pa?ku meaning "share of (land
> etc.)".  This is probably of Tamil origin. Codrington: Ancient Land
> Tenure...,p. 15.
> >
> > If the word denotes a share of land, then the etymological discussion
> should also think about the 5-ku?i-sized lands (pan-ku?i), and we are back
> in the Sanskrit-world.
> >
> >
> > Best
> >
> > Heiner
> >
> >
> > Am 19.08.2017 um 22:18 schrieb Elliot Stern via INDOLOGY:
> >> I would like to draw on the collective manuscript reading experience of
> our list members. A Sanskrit word pa?gu is well known in dictionaries and
> printed texts. It denotes a ?lame person?. In a passage of the ms of
> svadita?kara??  (a palm leaf Malayalam script ms), a commentary on
> ny?yaka?ik?, this word appears only as pa?ku with many repetitions in a
> long comment on a line in vidhiviveka?.. It is possible to argue that this
> reading pa?ku should be corrected to pa?gu, because pa?ku and pa?gu are
> both pronounced the same in the Malayalam language (i.e., the k is
> pronounced as g). This argument, however, seems weak to me. First, other
> words like prasa?ga always appear as expected in the svadita?kara?? ms.
> Second, a most likely 16th century devan?gar? ms of ny?yaka?ik? certainly
> reads pa?ku in two of the three occurrences of pa?gu later in the
> commentary, and probably in all three of them (the first fifty or so folia
> of this ms, that would include the passage on which svadita?karra??
> comments, are not available). In two of these instances, we see a
> correction to pa?gu, but one stands uncorrected. Third, the ms. of
> ju?adhva?kara?? (also a palm leaf Malayalam script ms) reads pa?ku a few
> times, and also consistently renders words like prasa?ga as expected.
> >>
> >> I have two questions. First, have you seen the reading pa?ku,
> especially in mss not written in South Indian scripts? Second, are there
> any etymological or other discussions of the term pa?gu / pa?ku not
> referenced in standard works like Burrows' and Emeneau?s DED or the
> Turners?  CDIAL?
> >>
> >> Elliot M.Stern
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> INDOLOGY mailing list
> >> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> >> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
> committee)
> >> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options
> or unsubscribe)
> >
> > --
> > www.rolfheinrichkoch.wordpress.com
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > INDOLOGY mailing list
> > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
> committee)
> > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options
> or unsubscribe)
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
> committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
> unsubscribe)
>


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From emstern1948 at gmail.com  Mon Aug 21 01:11:17 2017
From: emstern1948 at gmail.com (Elliot Stern)
Date: Sun, 20 Aug 17 21:11:17 -0400
Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_[INDOLOGY]_pa=E1=B9=85gu_/_pa=E1=B9=85ku_[2nd_sending]?=
In-Reply-To: <CAEd5L8jk6V79v_DpkYaoxmXqndXD14_AAWDe+uX1=41WRXipMA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <8F030E2D-FB37-42A0-9F2B-C3FACD0ED7F3@gmail.com>

Dear colleagues,

I agree with Seishi Karashima that neither of these passages relate to Sanskrit pa?gu or pa?ku ?lame?, but the original edition indeed reads sayala-mahi | valaya-pauka in the pdf scan available at archive.org <http://archive.org/>. I did not see that Jacobi corrected this reading in the published edition,. but I also do not dispute that pa?klu is correct. I did not consult data input on the internet. Even the great scholars may have missed typographical errors!

Best wishes,

Elliot Stern


> On 20 Aug  2017, at 20:41, Seishi Karashima <skarashima at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Dear colleagues,
> Both examples have nothing to do with pa?ku~.
> 
> (1) The first example from the Paumacariu:
> katth?riya-pa?kuppa?kiu < kast?rik? (?musk?)+ pa?ka (?unguent?) + *ut-pa?kita (?besmeared?; cf. Naresh Kumar, Apabhra??a-Hindi Dictionary, Nehru Nagar 1987: Indo-Vision Private Limited, vol. I, p. 124r, s.v. uppa?kiya; cf. also Skt. pa?kayati ?besmears?).
> 
> (2) The second example from the Sanatkum?racaritam:
> Jacobi?s edition (Sanatkum?racaritam: Ein Abschnitt aus Haribhadras Nemin?thacaritam. Eine Jaina Legende in Apabhra??a, hrsg. von Hermann Jacobi, M?nchen 1921: Verlag der Bayerischen Akademie der Wissenschaften, p. 37) in fact reads sayala-mahivalaya-panku (i.e. -pa?ku). Only the input data on the internet reads "sayala-mahivalaya-pauku". One must discern "edition" made by the great scholar from "data" input by somebody. Sayala-mahivalaya-pa?ku means ?mud in the whole world? (?der Schlamm im ganzen Lande?, ibid., p. 76). However, pa?ku is a nom. sg. masc. form of pa?ka in Apabhra??a.
> 
> Therefore, both examples quoted here are of pa?ka: (1) pa?ka + u- (> pa?ku-), (2) nom. sg. masc. pa?ku.
> 
> With best regards,
> Seishi Karashima
> 
> 2017-08-21 1:51 GMT+09:00 Elliot Stern via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info <mailto:indology at list.indology.info>>:
> Thank you for these references, but none of these are pa?ku ?lame?.
> 
> Best wishes,
> 
> Elliot
> 
> 
> > On 20 Aug  2017, at 08:51, Rolf Heinrich Koch via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info <mailto:indology at list.indology.info>> wrote:
> >
> > Besides many quotations in Tamil-literature I know the following two references in Prakrit (Apabhra??a)-literature:
> >
> > 1. Svayambhu Paumacariu (Ramastory)
> >
> > 26.11.3: jo katth?riya-pa?kuppa?kiu  jo ari-karihi ?a ?ohevi sakkiu
> 
> The semantic here is ?mud? or ?slime?.
> >
> > 2. Sanatkum?racaritam (H. Jacobi)
> >
> > 546: ...valaya-panku?.
> 
> The edition reads ? valaya-pauku ...
> >
> > 3.
> >
> > In Sri Lanka I came across the word pa?ku meaning "share of (land etc.)".  This is probably of Tamil origin. Codrington: Ancient Land Tenure...,p. 15.
> >
> > If the word denotes a share of land, then the etymological discussion should also think about the 5-ku?i-sized lands (pan-ku?i), and we are back in the Sanskrit-world.
> >
> >
> > Best
> >
> > Heiner
> >
> >
> > Am 19.08.2017 um 22:18 schrieb Elliot Stern via INDOLOGY:
> >> I would like to draw on the collective manuscript reading experience of our list members. A Sanskrit word pa?gu is well known in dictionaries and printed texts. It denotes a ?lame person?. In a passage of the ms of svadita?kara??  (a palm leaf Malayalam script ms), a commentary on ny?yaka?ik?, this word appears only as pa?ku with many repetitions in a long comment on a line in vidhiviveka?.. It is possible to argue that this reading pa?ku should be corrected to pa?gu, because pa?ku and pa?gu are both pronounced the same in the Malayalam language (i.e., the k is pronounced as g). This argument, however, seems weak to me. First, other words like prasa?ga always appear as expected in the svadita?kara?? ms. Second, a most likely 16th century devan?gar? ms of ny?yaka?ik? certainly reads pa?ku in two of the three occurrences of pa?gu later in the commentary, and probably in all three of them (the first fifty or so folia of this ms, that would include the passage on which svadita?karra?? comments, are not available). In two of these instances, we see a correction to pa?gu, but one stands uncorrected. Third, the ms. of ju?adhva?kara?? (also a palm leaf Malayalam script ms) reads pa?ku a few times, and also consistently renders words like prasa?ga as expected.
> >>
> >> I have two questions. First, have you seen the reading pa?ku, especially in mss not written in South Indian scripts? Second, are there any etymological or other discussions of the term pa?gu / pa?ku not referenced in standard works like Burrows' and Emeneau?s DED or the Turners?  CDIAL?
> >>
> >> Elliot M.Stern
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> INDOLOGY mailing list
> >> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info <mailto:INDOLOGY at list.indology.info>
> >> indology-owner at list.indology.info <mailto:indology-owner at list.indology.info> (messages to the list's managing committee)
> >> http://listinfo.indology.info <http://listinfo.indology.info/> (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe)
> >
> > --
> > www.rolfheinrichkoch.wordpress.com <http://www.rolfheinrichkoch.wordpress.com/>
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > INDOLOGY mailing list
> > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info <mailto:INDOLOGY at list.indology.info>
> > indology-owner at list.indology.info <mailto:indology-owner at list.indology.info> (messages to the list's managing committee)
> > http://listinfo.indology.info <http://listinfo.indology.info/> (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe)
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info <mailto:INDOLOGY at list.indology.info>
> indology-owner at list.indology.info <mailto:indology-owner at list.indology.info> (messages to the list's managing committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info <http://listinfo.indology.info/> (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe)
> 



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From skarashima at gmail.com  Mon Aug 21 01:31:22 2017
From: skarashima at gmail.com (Seishi Karashima)
Date: Mon, 21 Aug 17 10:31:22 +0900
Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_[INDOLOGY]_pa=E1=B9=85gu_/_pa=E1=B9=85ku_[2nd_sending]?=
In-Reply-To: <8F030E2D-FB37-42A0-9F2B-C3FACD0ED7F3@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAEd5L8i98P_OzWSYyT1F-41QQgBtEDuHsU4MYW_SkQquXf-Qmw@mail.gmail.com>

Dear Dr. Stern,
Thank you for the information.
Now I understand why this wrong reading crept into the data. It is
interesting that Jacobi's edition which I have reads correctly "panku"; see
the attached photos, while the PDF, taken from the archive.org., reads
mistakenly "pauku".  His index reads rightly "panka". I am happy to know
that I have a copy of  the corrected version of Jacobi's dissertation paper.
With best regards,
Seishi Karashima

2017-08-21 10:11 GMT+09:00 Elliot Stern <emstern1948 at gmail.com>:

> Dear colleagues,
>
> I agree with Seishi Karashima that neither of these passages relate to
> Sanskrit pa?gu or pa?ku ?lame?, but the original edition indeed reads
> sayala-mahi | valaya-pauka in the pdf scan available at archive.org. I
> did not see that Jacobi corrected this reading in the published edition,.
> but I also do not dispute that pa?klu is correct. I did not consult data
> input on the internet.* Even the great scholars may have missed
> typographical errors!*
>
> Best wishes,
>
> Elliot Stern
>
>
> On 20 Aug  2017, at 20:41, Seishi Karashima <skarashima at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Dear colleagues,
> Both examples have nothing to do with *pa?ku*~.
>
> (1) The first example from the *Paumacariu*:
> *katth?riya-pa?kuppa?kiu* < *kast?rik?* (?musk?)+ *pa?ka* (?unguent?) + *
> *ut-pa?kita* (?besmeared?; cf. Naresh Kumar, *Apabhra??a-Hindi Dictionary*,
> Nehru Nagar 1987: Indo-Vision Private Limited, vol. I, p. 124r, s.v.
> *uppa?kiya*; cf. also Skt. *pa?kayati* ?besmears?).
>
> (2) The second example from the *Sanatkum?racaritam*:
> Jacobi?s edition (*Sanatkum?racaritam: Ein Abschnitt aus Haribhadras
> Nemin?thacaritam. Eine Jaina Legende in Apabhra??a*, hrsg. von Hermann
> Jacobi, M?nchen 1921: Verlag der Bayerischen Akademie der Wissenschaften,
> p. 37) in fact reads *sayala-mahivalaya-panku* (i.e. -*pa?ku*). Only the
> input data on the internet reads "*sayala-mahivalaya-pauku*". One must
> discern "edition" made by the great scholar from "data" input by somebody. *Sayala-mahivalaya-pa?ku
> *means ?mud in the whole world? (?der Schlamm im ganzen Lande?, *ibid.*,
> p. 76). However, *pa?ku* is a *nom. sg. masc. form* of *pa?ka *in
> Apabhra??a.
>
> Therefore, both examples quoted here are of *pa?ka*: (1) *pa?ka + u- *(*>
> pa?ku-*), (2) nom. sg. masc. *pa?ku*.
>
> With best regards,
>
> Seishi Karashima
>
> 2017-08-21 1:51 GMT+09:00 Elliot Stern via INDOLOGY <
> indology at list.indology.info>:
>
>> Thank you for these references, but none of these are pa?ku ?lame?.
>>
>> Best wishes,
>>
>> Elliot
>>
>>
>> > On 20 Aug  2017, at 08:51, Rolf Heinrich Koch via INDOLOGY <
>> indology at list.indology.info> wrote:
>> >
>> > Besides many quotations in Tamil-literature I know the following two
>> references in Prakrit (Apabhra??a)-literature:
>> >
>> > 1. Svayambhu Paumacariu (Ramastory)
>> >
>> > 26.11.3: jo katth?riya-pa?kuppa?kiu  jo ari-karihi ?a ?ohevi sakkiu
>>
>> The semantic here is ?mud? or ?slime?.
>> >
>> > 2. Sanatkum?racaritam (H. Jacobi)
>> >
>> > 546: ...valaya-panku?.
>>
>> The edition reads ? valaya-pauku ...
>> >
>> > 3.
>> >
>> > In Sri Lanka I came across the word pa?ku meaning "share of (land
>> etc.)".  This is probably of Tamil origin. Codrington: Ancient Land
>> Tenure...,p. 15.
>> >
>> > If the word denotes a share of land, then the etymological discussion
>> should also think about the 5-ku?i-sized lands (pan-ku?i), and we are back
>> in the Sanskrit-world.
>> >
>> >
>> > Best
>> >
>> > Heiner
>> >
>> >
>> > Am 19.08.2017 um 22:18 schrieb Elliot Stern via INDOLOGY:
>> >> I would like to draw on the collective manuscript reading experience
>> of our list members. A Sanskrit word pa?gu is well known in dictionaries
>> and printed texts. It denotes a ?lame person?. In a passage of the ms of
>> svadita?kara??  (a palm leaf Malayalam script ms), a commentary on
>> ny?yaka?ik?, this word appears only as pa?ku with many repetitions in a
>> long comment on a line in vidhiviveka?.. It is possible to argue that this
>> reading pa?ku should be corrected to pa?gu, because pa?ku and pa?gu are
>> both pronounced the same in the Malayalam language (i.e., the k is
>> pronounced as g). This argument, however, seems weak to me. First, other
>> words like prasa?ga always appear as expected in the svadita?kara?? ms.
>> Second, a most likely 16th century devan?gar? ms of ny?yaka?ik? certainly
>> reads pa?ku in two of the three occurrences of pa?gu later in the
>> commentary, and probably in all three of them (the first fifty or so folia
>> of this ms, that would include the passage on which svadita?karra??
>> comments, are not available). In two of these instances, we see a
>> correction to pa?gu, but one stands uncorrected. Third, the ms. of
>> ju?adhva?kara?? (also a palm leaf Malayalam script ms) reads pa?ku a few
>> times, and also consistently renders words like prasa?ga as expected.
>> >>
>> >> I have two questions. First, have you seen the reading pa?ku,
>> especially in mss not written in South Indian scripts? Second, are there
>> any etymological or other discussions of the term pa?gu / pa?ku not
>> referenced in standard works like Burrows' and Emeneau?s DED or the
>> Turners?  CDIAL?
>> >>
>> >> Elliot M.Stern
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> _______________________________________________
>> >> INDOLOGY mailing list
>> >> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>> >> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
>> committee)
>> >> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options
>> or unsubscribe)
>> >
>> > --
>> > www.rolfheinrichkoch.wordpress.com
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > INDOLOGY mailing list
>> > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>> > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
>> committee)
>> > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options
>> or unsubscribe)
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
>> committee)
>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
>> unsubscribe)
>>
>
>
>


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From mailmealakendudas at rediffmail.com  Mon Aug 21 07:49:44 2017
From: mailmealakendudas at rediffmail.com (alakendu das)
Date: Mon, 21 Aug 17 07:49:44 +0000
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Buddhist Text
In-Reply-To: <1df8743104370d1c461cb693a0d0e29c.squirrel@secure.loyno.edu>
Message-ID: <1502987053.S.4330.18198.f4-234-164.1503301784.25495@webmail.rediffmail.com>





  My apologie for replying late to kind responses. All these days I was travelling widely and had 

connectivity problems.

                       Yes, I agree this is a standard Madhyamika doctrine.I wonder whether this  

qoute may be anyway  ascribed to Nagarjuna, who was the  chief proponent of Madhyamika or 

Sunnyavad doctrine.

                    However, i would look into the books and links referred by you.







                                                    ALAKENDU DAS.



                                       


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From mmdesh at umich.edu  Mon Aug 21 14:52:44 2017
From: mmdesh at umich.edu (Madhav Deshpande)
Date: Mon, 21 Aug 17 10:52:44 -0400
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Documentary on the life of Jagannath alias Nana Shankersheth
Message-ID: <CAB3-dzewGuDL6xiVRPVmobwpF1bcnN_Fm8ozEzMygwvxtnT-Hw@mail.gmail.com>

Hello Friends,


   1.      I came across this beautiful documentary film on the life and
   contributions of Jagannath alias Nana Shankersheth, in whose name the
   famous Jagannath Shankersheth Sanskrit Scholarship was established around
   1857.  Ashok Aklujkar, Ganesh Thite, and I, among many others, won this
   Sanskrit scholarship.  Shankershet worked closely with Mountstuart
   Elphonstone, the first British governor of Bombay, and significantly
   contributed to the establishment of numerous educational and cultural
   institutions in Bombay.  The film depicts his manifold contributions.


http://www.cultureunplugged.com/play/137/Nana-Shanker-Shet/Vm10YVlWSnJPVmRSYkVwUlZrUkJPUT09KzE=

Madhav Deshpande


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From emstern1948 at gmail.com  Mon Aug 21 16:09:01 2017
From: emstern1948 at gmail.com (Elliot Stern)
Date: Mon, 21 Aug 17 12:09:01 -0400
Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_[INDOLOGY]_pa=E1=B9=85gu_/_pa=E1=B9=85ku_[2nd_sending]?=
In-Reply-To: <CAEd5L8i98P_OzWSYyT1F-41QQgBtEDuHsU4MYW_SkQquXf-Qmw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <7D1BEDEA-9154-410D-8D32-6B348EAEC71E@gmail.com>

Thank you, Professor Karashima, for documenting that Jacobi?s text had a corrected printing. This seems unusual, especially if your copy is not officially a second printing or the like.

In any case, we agree that pa?ka ?mud? and its Apabhra??a form pa?ku are not the subject of my inquiry. I am only interested in any evidences (especially in devan?gar? and other north Indian script mss) of a reading pa?ku (pa?ku)  Sanskrit pa?gu ?lame?.

I attach jpegs of details showing the ny?yaka?ik? manuscript readings I mentioned in the original message in this thread. The original manuscript is in the Nepal National Archives. I have no images of ju?adhva?kara?? or svadita?kara??.

Best wishes,

Elliot Stern

  

> On 20 Aug  2017, at 21:31, Seishi Karashima <skarashima at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Dear Dr. Stern,
> Thank you for the information.
> Now I understand why this wrong reading crept into the data. It is interesting that Jacobi's edition which I have reads correctly "panku"; see the attached photos, while the PDF, taken from the archive.org <http://archive.org/>., reads mistakenly "pauku".  His index reads rightly "panka". I am happy to know that I have a copy of  the corrected version of Jacobi's dissertation paper.
> With best regards,
> Seishi Karashima
> 
> 2017-08-21 10:11 GMT+09:00 Elliot Stern <emstern1948 at gmail.com <mailto:emstern1948 at gmail.com>>:
> Dear colleagues,
> 
> I agree with Seishi Karashima that neither of these passages relate to Sanskrit pa?gu or pa?ku ?lame?, but the original edition indeed reads sayala-mahi | valaya-pauka in the pdf scan available at archive.org <http://archive.org/>. I did not see that Jacobi corrected this reading in the published edition,. but I also do not dispute that pa?klu is correct. I did not consult data input on the internet. Even the great scholars may have missed typographical errors!
> 
> Best wishes,
> 
> Elliot Stern
> 
> 
>> On 20 Aug  2017, at 20:41, Seishi Karashima <skarashima at gmail.com <mailto:skarashima at gmail.com>> wrote:
>> 
>> Dear colleagues,
>> Both examples have nothing to do with pa?ku~.
>> 
>> (1) The first example from the Paumacariu:
>> katth?riya-pa?kuppa?kiu < kast?rik? (?musk?)+ pa?ka (?unguent?) + *ut-pa?kita (?besmeared?; cf. Naresh Kumar, Apabhra??a-Hindi Dictionary, Nehru Nagar 1987: Indo-Vision Private Limited, vol. I, p. 124r, s.v. uppa?kiya; cf. also Skt. pa?kayati ?besmears?).
>> 
>> (2) The second example from the Sanatkum?racaritam:
>> Jacobi?s edition (Sanatkum?racaritam: Ein Abschnitt aus Haribhadras Nemin?thacaritam. Eine Jaina Legende in Apabhra??a, hrsg. von Hermann Jacobi, M?nchen 1921: Verlag der Bayerischen Akademie der Wissenschaften, p. 37) in fact reads sayala-mahivalaya-panku (i.e. -pa?ku). Only the input data on the internet reads "sayala-mahivalaya-pauku". One must discern "edition" made by the great scholar from "data" input by somebody. Sayala-mahivalaya-pa?ku means ?mud in the whole world? (?der Schlamm im ganzen Lande?, ibid., p. 76). However, pa?ku is a nom. sg. masc. form of pa?ka in Apabhra??a.
>> 
>> Therefore, both examples quoted here are of pa?ka: (1) pa?ka + u- (> pa?ku-), (2) nom. sg. masc. pa?ku.
>> 
>> With best regards,
>> Seishi Karashima
>> 
>> 2017-08-21 1:51 GMT+09:00 Elliot Stern via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info <mailto:indology at list.indology.info>>:
>> Thank you for these references, but none of these are pa?ku ?lame?.
>> 
>> Best wishes,
>> 
>> Elliot
>> 
>> 
>> > On 20 Aug  2017, at 08:51, Rolf Heinrich Koch via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info <mailto:indology at list.indology.info>> wrote:
>> >
>> > Besides many quotations in Tamil-literature I know the following two references in Prakrit (Apabhra??a)-literature:
>> >
>> > 1. Svayambhu Paumacariu (Ramastory)
>> >
>> > 26.11.3: jo katth?riya-pa?kuppa?kiu  jo ari-karihi ?a ?ohevi sakkiu
>> 
>> The semantic here is ?mud? or ?slime?.
>> >
>> > 2. Sanatkum?racaritam (H. Jacobi)
>> >
>> > 546: ...valaya-panku?.
>> 
>> The edition reads ? valaya-pauku ...
>> >
>> > 3.
>> >
>> > In Sri Lanka I came across the word pa?ku meaning "share of (land etc.)".  This is probably of Tamil origin. Codrington: Ancient Land Tenure...,p. 15.
>> >
>> > If the word denotes a share of land, then the etymological discussion should also think about the 5-ku?i-sized lands (pan-ku?i), and we are back in the Sanskrit-world.
>> >
>> >
>> > Best
>> >
>> > Heiner
>> >
>> >
>> > Am 19.08.2017 um 22:18 schrieb Elliot Stern via INDOLOGY:
>> >> I would like to draw on the collective manuscript reading experience of our list members. A Sanskrit word pa?gu is well known in dictionaries and printed texts. It denotes a ?lame person?. In a passage of the ms of svadita?kara??  (a palm leaf Malayalam script ms), a commentary on ny?yaka?ik?, this word appears only as pa?ku with many repetitions in a long comment on a line in vidhiviveka?.. It is possible to argue that this reading pa?ku should be corrected to pa?gu, because pa?ku and pa?gu are both pronounced the same in the Malayalam language (i.e., the k is pronounced as g). This argument, however, seems weak to me. First, other words like prasa?ga always appear as expected in the svadita?kara?? ms. Second, a most likely 16th century devan?gar? ms of ny?yaka?ik? certainly reads pa?ku in two of the three occurrences of pa?gu later in the commentary, and probably in all three of them (the first fifty or so folia of this ms, that would include the passage on which svadita?karra?? comments, are not available). In two of these instances, we see a correction to pa?gu, but one stands uncorrected. Third, the ms. of ju?adhva?kara?? (also a palm leaf Malayalam script ms) reads pa?ku a few times, and also consistently renders words like prasa?ga as expected.
>> >>
>> >> I have two questions. First, have you seen the reading pa?ku, especially in mss not written in South Indian scripts? Second, are there any etymological or other discussions of the term pa?gu / pa?ku not referenced in standard works like Burrows' and Emeneau?s DED or the Turners?  CDIAL?
>> >>
>> >> Elliot M.Stern
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> _______________________________________________
>> >> INDOLOGY mailing list
>> >> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info <mailto:INDOLOGY at list.indology.info>
>> >> indology-owner at list.indology.info <mailto:indology-owner at list.indology.info> (messages to the list's managing committee)
>> >> http://listinfo.indology.info <http://listinfo.indology.info/> (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe)
>> >
>> > --
>> > www.rolfheinrichkoch.wordpress.com <http://www.rolfheinrichkoch.wordpress.com/>
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > INDOLOGY mailing list
>> > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info <mailto:INDOLOGY at list.indology.info>
>> > indology-owner at list.indology.info <mailto:indology-owner at list.indology.info> (messages to the list's managing committee)
>> > http://listinfo.indology.info <http://listinfo.indology.info/> (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe)
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info <mailto:INDOLOGY at list.indology.info>
>> indology-owner at list.indology.info <mailto:indology-owner at list.indology.info> (messages to the list's managing committee)
>> http://listinfo.indology.info <http://listinfo.indology.info/> (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe)
>> 
> 
> 
> <Jacobi1921Sanatkumaracarita, p. 37.JPG><Jacobi1921Sanatkumaracarita, index.JPG><Jacobi1921Sanatkumaracarita, cover.JPG><Jacobi1921Sanatkumaracarita, p. 37.pdf>



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From shyamr at yorku.ca  Mon Aug 21 21:46:46 2017
From: shyamr at yorku.ca (Shyam Ranganathan)
Date: Mon, 21 Aug 17 17:46:46 -0400
Subject: [INDOLOGY] sex and gender
In-Reply-To: <CAJGj9ebiKjmXu0oE_wZjfmNmqJ3VAXoSVr9uRfu5=8qSFREngA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <bf576d53-d79d-bbc4-f437-e8004ffd1506@yorku.ca>

Dear all,

I would like to thank everyone who responded to my question about sex 
and gender. The responses were rich and most useful. I will pass along 
the suggestions to my colleague.

Best wishes,? and many thanks!
Shyam

Shyam Ranganathan
Department of Philosophy
York University, Toronto





From hr at ivs.edu  Tue Aug 22 02:51:36 2017
From: hr at ivs.edu (HR)
Date: Mon, 21 Aug 17 19:51:36 -0700
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Gita 13.6
Message-ID: <1503370322-1905389.2548026.fv7M2paIQ009550@rs153.luxsci.com>

Dear Scholars,

	I would appreciate insights on how we might understand the use of ?avyakta,? the ?unmanifest? in the Gita 13.6 and elsewhere as a type of element or dimension of this world.

Thanks,
Howard




From mailmealakendudas at rediffmail.com  Tue Aug 22 11:52:52 2017
From: mailmealakendudas at rediffmail.com (alakendu das)
Date: Tue, 22 Aug 17 11:52:52 +0000
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Gita 13.6
Message-ID: <1503401211.S.47787.autosave.drafts.1503402772.15321@webmail.rediffmail.com>

Scholar,&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;The best way to comprehend Avykta or "The unmanifested"is available in Gita&nbsp;itself.2.26(or may be 27,)says- A chheddyam,Adahhyam,Akleddya,Ashoshya eba cha ,Nitya Sarvagata Sthanu Chalayam ,Sanatana........Avyaktayam,Achintyam,Avikaryam ucchyate.The concept of Avyakta in our Philosophy is dimensionless,although itis the sole EXISTENCE. The fact that it is dimensionless, can be accessed from this Upanishadic qoute- Ananu,Asthulam,Arhasham,A..dirgham....etc.," Avyaktam' is the Sumnum Bonum of our Vedanta Philosophy.&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;Alakendu Ds


Sent from RediffmailNG on Android




From: HR via INDOLOGY &lt;indology at list.indology.info&gt;
Sent: Tue, 22 Aug 2017 08:23:45 GMT+0530
To: Indology List &lt;indology at list.indology.info&gt;
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Gita 13.6

Dear Scholars,



&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;I would appreciate insights on how we might understand the use of ?avyakta,? the ?unmanifest? in the Gita 13.6 and elsewhere as a type of element or dimension of this world.



Thanks,

Howard

_______________________________________________

INDOLOGY mailing list

INDOLOGY at list.indology.info

indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee)

http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe)


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From slindqui at mail.smu.edu  Tue Aug 22 15:13:17 2017
From: slindqui at mail.smu.edu (Lindquist, Steven)
Date: Tue, 22 Aug 17 15:13:17 +0000
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Abstracts for Conf: "Women and Power in Indian Tradition: Royalty, Renunciation, and Matriliny, " Sept. 16, Dallas, TX
Message-ID: <790A10F5-520A-4DA2-916F-D774CFD80581@smu.edu>

Dear all,

This is a follow-up notice of our upcoming conference (notice below).  The abstracts of the talks and bios of presenters are now available at www.sarii.org/2017abstracts.html<%22http:/>.  For free registration, please send the full name, phone number, and email address of each attendee to women at sarii.org<file:///%2522mailto> by September 10, 2017. Free lunch will be provided to those who register by the deadline.

Please feel free to forward this information to those who might be interested and feel free to contact me off list if you need further information for visiting Dallas, etc.

My best,

Steven


STEVEN LINDQUIST, PH.D.
ASSOCIATE PROFESSOR, RELIGIOUS STUDIES
DIRECTOR, ASIAN STUDIES
____________________

Dedman College of Humanities and Sciences, SMU
PO Box 750202 | Dallas | TX | 75275-0202
Email: slindqui at smu.edu<mailto:slindqui at smu.edu>
Web: http://faculty.smu.edu/slindqui


_____________________________________________________________________

Asian Studies at SMU and the South Asia Research and Information Institute, Dallas, present a day-long conference:

Women and Power in Indian Tradition: Royalty, Renunciation, and Matriliny
Saturday, Sept. 16th, 9am-5pm
McCord Auditorium, SMU Campus

Presentations include:

The Queen, the Dasi, and Sexual Politics in the Sabhaparvan of the Mahabharata
Uma Chakravarti, Ph.D.
Delhi University (Emerita)

Ruby of the Dynasty: Our Lady, Sembiyan Mahadevi
Vidya Dehejia, Ph.D.
Columbia University

Women and Truth Speech: The Classical Saint Karaikkal Ammaiyar Then and Now
Karen Pechilis, Ph.D.
Drew University

Kinship, Power, Gender: Some Questions from the History of Matriliny in Kerala
G. Arunima, Ph.D.
Jawaharlal Nehru University

The Power a Woman's Story Creates: Stories, Lives, and Female Renunciation in India
Antoinette DeNapoli, Ph.D.
Texas Christian University

Chair:
Steven Lindquist, Ph.D.
Southern Methodist University

More information on organizers at:
www.smu.edu/asianstudies<http://www.smu.edu/asianstudies>
www.sarii.org<http://www.sarii.org/>


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From wujastyk at gmail.com  Tue Aug 22 20:23:09 2017
From: wujastyk at gmail.com (Dominik Wujastyk)
Date: Tue, 22 Aug 17 14:23:09 -0600
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Starting a new academic journal
Message-ID: <CAKdt-Cfs3o0r1euQLpY5CKDY-QS-KAA+F9x4CPyjD3_ggkR6Vg@mail.gmail.com>

Dear colleagues,

New academic journals spring up with surprising frequency.  Indeed, I
launched one <http://hssa-journal.org> myself.  I am surprised, however, to
see how many of the journals relevant to Indology still function on what I
think of as the "old model," and are run as for-profit enterprises by
commercial companies like Springer, Elsevier, Brill and others, whose first
duty is not to the growth of knowledge, but to their shareholders.

This problem of forked loyalty was starkly demonstrated this last week,
when Cambridge University Press bowed to pressure from the Chinese
Government, and voluntarily censored the content of its journal *China
Quarterly,* withdrawing 300 articles that touched on topics sensitive to
the PRC's communist government including the Tienanmen Square massacre and
Tibet.  The reason given by the press was (in my words) that it was willing
to sacrifice intellectual integrity for the purpose of continuing to sell
the broad range of its products in the Chinese market.  The press has
since changed
its mind
<http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2017/08/cambridge-university-press-posts-censored-articles-170822075543589.html>
as a result of widespread incredulity and outrage from the academic
establishment.  It might be uncharitable to view it this way, but one can't
help thinking that CUP continues make decisions based on the bottom line,
and has simply decided that it stands to lose more by alienating its
domestic academic market than the Chinese one.

There are now robust alternatives to the old model.  For many years, the Public
Knowledge Project <https://pkp.sfu.ca/> at Canada's Simon Fraser University
has been distributing excellent free software for running academic
journals.  From the technical point of view, it is really quite easy to set
up and run an online, Open Access journal.  If one needs technical help,
the PKP can provide advice.

There are also important initiatives such as the Open Library of the
Humanities <https://www.openlibhums.org/> that provide support
<https://www.openlibhums.org/site/academics/journal-applications-to-join-the-olh/>
for new or existing Open Access journals.  The OLH is important for two
reasons.  First, it has a robust business model.  Second, it is alive to
new and emerging forms of academic publishing, including the very
interesting systems like archivX, PLOS, PeerJ, and JSTOR that have
developed in scientific publishing. OLH is particularly inspired by PLOS
<https://www.plos.org/>, and can partly be seen as a project to give
humanistic scholars the kinds of benefit already enjoyed by scientists.

If you are thinking of  launching a new journal, please look at projects
like OLH.  They might provide everything you need, including adherence to
the OA principles and the business models of the future.

If you want to publish an article, think first of the Open Access journals
might give you the peer-review, impact and quality that you are looking
for.  The DOAJ <http://doaj.org> is an index of OA journals, and offers a
lot of discussion and documentation about all the issues I raise here.

Best wishes,
Dominik


?
--
Professor Dominik Wujastyk <http://ualberta.academia.edu/DominikWujastyk>
?,?

Singhmar Chair in Classical Indian Society and Polity
?,?

Department of History and Classics <http://historyandclassics.ualberta.ca/>
?,?
University of Alberta, Canada
?.?

South Asia at the U of A:

?sas.ualberta.ca?
??


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From hr at ivs.edu  Wed Aug 23 01:08:12 2017
From: hr at ivs.edu (HR)
Date: Tue, 22 Aug 17 18:08:12 -0700
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Gita 13.6
In-Reply-To: <1503401211.S.47787.autosave.drafts.1503402772.15321@webmail.rediffmail.com>
Message-ID: <1503450542-4561806.03350142.fv7N18Faw029961@rs153.luxsci.com>

Thank you. Actually, avyakta is often used as a straightforward adjective, as in Bg 2.25. My interest here is when avyakta is used as a noun, as in Bg 12.1, or even more to the point, 8.18,20.

Howard

> On Aug 22, 2017, at 4:52 AM, alakendu das <mailmealakendudas at rediffmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Scholar, 
>                  The best way to comprehend Avykta or "The unmanifested"is available in Gita itself.2.26(or may be 27,)says- A chheddyam,Adahhyam,Akleddya,Ashoshya eba cha ,Nitya Sarvagata Sthanu Chalayam ,Sanatana
> ........Avyaktayam,Achintyam,Avikaryam ucchyate.The concept of Avyakta in our Philosophy is dimensionless,although it
> is the sole EXISTENCE. The fact that it is dimensionless, can be accessed from this Upanishadic qoute- Ananu,Asthulam,Arhasham,A
> ..dirgham....etc.," Avyaktam' is the Sumnum Bonum of our Vedanta Philosophy.
>                      Alakendu Ds
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from RediffmailNG on Android
> 
> 
> 
> 
> From: HR via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info>
> Sent: Tue, 22 Aug 2017 08:23:45 GMT+0530
> To: Indology List <indology at list.indology.info>
> Subject: [INDOLOGY] Gita 13.6
> 
> Dear Scholars,
> 
>    I would appreciate insights on how we might understand the use of ?avyakta,? the ?unmanifest? in the Gita 13.6 and elsewhere as a type of element or dimension of this world.
> 
> Thanks,
> Howard
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info <http://listinfo.indology.info/> (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe)
> 



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From ashok.aklujkar at gmail.com  Wed Aug 23 02:14:50 2017
From: ashok.aklujkar at gmail.com (Ashok Aklujkar)
Date: Tue, 22 Aug 17 19:14:50 -0700
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Starting a new academic journal
In-Reply-To: <CAKdt-Cfs3o0r1euQLpY5CKDY-QS-KAA+F9x4CPyjD3_ggkR6Vg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <249918FC-ABE6-4653-A1D5-8B3A051B6BA9@gmail.com>

Dear Dominik,

You wrote: >The OLH [=  Open Library of the Humanities <https://www.openlibhums.org/>] ? has a robust business model.< 

How did it come to develop this model and how can it maintain (or continue to maintain) the model? The services it provides must cost something. Who pays for them?

Thanks for the guidance you are providing to Indologists.

a.a. 



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From nagarajpaturi at gmail.com  Wed Aug 23 02:17:31 2017
From: nagarajpaturi at gmail.com (Nagaraj Paturi)
Date: Wed, 23 Aug 17 07:47:31 +0530
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Gita 13.6
In-Reply-To: <1503450542-4561806.03350142.fv7N18Faw029961@rs153.luxsci.com>
Message-ID: <CAJGj9ea-wfizV-fd8QD=O32G1KR3M_7Y5qoF8wRq0kjdBYm5hw@mail.gmail.com>

Dear HR-ji,

noun not adjective.

Yes, that is what I was about to point out.

In 13.6, it is a part of categories into which the "knowable field" as
opposed to the "field - knower"  is  divided.

????????????????? ???????????????? ? ?
??????????? ?????? ? ?~??? ??????????????? ? 13\-6?

Similar is its use in 8-18, 8-20

?????????? ???????? ?????? ???????????????? ?

??????????? ?????????? ??????????????????? ? 8\-18?


????????????? ???? ????? ???????? ???????????????? ?

?? ? ??????? ?????? ???????? ? ???????? ? 8\-20?


The words element and dimension used by you are very apt.


Interestingly it is both a dimension and element.


Just for analogy, space and time in contemporary Physics are both
dimensions and components. (Post Einstein, they are components of a
continuum.)


mah?bh?t?ni, indriyagoocar?h are part of the vyakta component. ahank?rah,
buddhih, indriy??i are parts of neither parts of the vyakta nor of the
avykta.


This vyakta, avyakta division has its foundations right from the rigvedic
expressions such as


p?d?sya vi?v?bh?t?ni trip?dasy?mr?tam divi.


v?d?ham?tam puru?am mah?ntam ?dityavar?am tamasah parast?t.





On Wed, Aug 23, 2017 at 6:38 AM, HR via INDOLOGY <
indology at list.indology.info> wrote:

> Thank you. Actually, avyakta is often used as a straightforward adjective,
> as in Bg 2.25. My interest here is when avyakta is used as a noun, as in Bg
> 12.1, or even more to the point, 8.18,20.
>
> Howard
>
> On Aug 22, 2017, at 4:52 AM, alakendu das <mailmealakendudas at rediffmail.
> com> wrote:
>
> Scholar,
>                  The best way to comprehend Avykta or "The unmanifested"is
> available in Gita itself.2.26(or may be 27,)says- A
> chheddyam,Adahhyam,Akleddya,Ashoshya eba cha ,Nitya Sarvagata Sthanu
> Chalayam ,Sanatana
> ........Avyaktayam,Achintyam,Avikaryam ucchyate.The concept of Avyakta in
> our Philosophy is dimensionless,although it
> is the sole EXISTENCE. The fact that it is dimensionless, can be accessed
> from this Upanishadic qoute- Ananu,Asthulam,Arhasham,A
> ..dirgham....etc.," Avyaktam' is the Sumnum Bonum of our Vedanta
> Philosophy.
>                      Alakendu Ds
>
>
>
> Sent from RediffmailNG on Android
>
>
>
>
> From: HR via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info>
> Sent: Tue, 22 Aug 2017 08:23:45 GMT+0530
> To: Indology List <indology at list.indology.info>
> Subject: [INDOLOGY] Gita 13.6
>
> Dear Scholars,
>
>    I would appreciate insights on how we might understand the use of
> ?avyakta,? the ?unmanifest? in the Gita 13.6 and elsewhere as a type of
> element or dimension of this world.
>
> Thanks,
> Howard
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
> committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
> unsubscribe)
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
> committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
> unsubscribe)
>



-- 
Nagaraj Paturi

Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.


BoS, MIT School of Vedic Sciences, Pune, Maharashtra

BoS, Chinmaya Vishwavidyapeeth, Veliyanad, Kerala

Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies

FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of  Liberal Education,

(Pune, Maharashtra, INDIA )


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From eastwestcultural at yahoo.com  Wed Aug 23 03:29:20 2017
From: eastwestcultural at yahoo.com (Dean Michael Anderson)
Date: Wed, 23 Aug 17 03:29:20 +0000
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Hindu texts on textiles?
In-Reply-To: <1529921682.341202.1503458960666.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1529921682.341202.1503458960666@mail.yahoo.com>

Someone ask if I knew any Hindu " texts that talk about fabrics - dying, weaving, patterns and wearing?  "

I'm only aware of the research on the Tarim basin which isn't really what they're looking for. 

Any suggestions?

Best,

Dean Anderson 
East West Cultural Institute 





From ashok.aklujkar at gmail.com  Wed Aug 23 03:34:43 2017
From: ashok.aklujkar at gmail.com (Ashok Aklujkar)
Date: Tue, 22 Aug 17 20:34:43 -0700
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Starting a new academic journal
In-Reply-To: <CAKdt-Cfs3o0r1euQLpY5CKDY-QS-KAA+F9x4CPyjD3_ggkR6Vg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <26715F45-6151-470D-8070-7C8C25C34870@gmail.com>

Dear Dominik,

You wrote: >The OLH [=  Open Library of the Humanities <https://www.openlibhums.org/>] ? has a robust business model.< 

How did it come to develop this model and how can it maintain (or continue to maintain) the model? The services it provides must cost something. Who pays for them?

Thanks for the guidance you are providing to Indologists.

a.a. 



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From nagarajpaturi at gmail.com  Wed Aug 23 04:20:34 2017
From: nagarajpaturi at gmail.com (Nagaraj Paturi)
Date: Wed, 23 Aug 17 09:50:34 +0530
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Hindu texts on textiles?
In-Reply-To: <1529921682.341202.1503458960666@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <CAJGj9eZh1a=6cv8gDsguhsYx1JHSAjPK9Rji8QbPhzhTE=3wFw@mail.gmail.com>

There were a few threads on the list earlier.

The most recent one was:

https://mail.google.com/mail/u/0/?tab=wm#search/indology+textiles/158f34288112d969

On Wed, Aug 23, 2017 at 8:59 AM, Dean Michael Anderson via INDOLOGY <
indology at list.indology.info> wrote:

> Someone ask if I knew any Hindu " texts that talk about fabrics - dying,
> weaving, patterns and wearing?  "
>
> I'm only aware of the research on the Tarim basin which isn't really what
> they're looking for.
>
> Any suggestions?
>
> Best,
>
> Dean Anderson
> East West Cultural Institute
>
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
> committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
> unsubscribe)
>



-- 
Nagaraj Paturi

Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.


BoS, MIT School of Vedic Sciences, Pune, Maharashtra

BoS, Chinmaya Vishwavidyapeeth, Veliyanad, Kerala

Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies

FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of  Liberal Education,

(Pune, Maharashtra, INDIA )


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From nagarajpaturi at gmail.com  Wed Aug 23 05:27:21 2017
From: nagarajpaturi at gmail.com (Nagaraj Paturi)
Date: Wed, 23 Aug 17 10:57:21 +0530
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Hindu texts on textiles?
In-Reply-To: <CAJGj9eZh1a=6cv8gDsguhsYx1JHSAjPK9Rji8QbPhzhTE=3wFw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAJGj9eYWkCBiNmO6ZJiVcU6YE7UqLM_yefAih+5GPtjjto6dew@mail.gmail.com>

On another list, Prof. K S Kannan, a colossal scholar of Sanskrit and its
traditions posted as follows:

On September 30, 2015 at 5:17 PM K S Kannan <ks.kannan.2000 at gmail.com>
wrote:

Here are some references  for Textiles in Ancient India:

1.Two Indian Embroideries
<http://www.jstor.org/stable/10.2307/3795089?Search=yes&resultItemClick=true&searchText=ancient&searchText=indian&searchText=textile&searchUri=%2Faction%2FdoBasicResults%3FQuery%3Dancient%2Bindian%2Btextile%26amp%3Bacc%3Don%26amp%3Bwc%3Don%26amp%3Bfc%3Doff%26amp%3Bgroup%3Dnone%26amp%3Bso%3Drel%26amp%3Bsi%3D1>
Stella Kramrisch
<http://www.jstor.org/action/doBasicSearch?acc=on&wc=on&fc=off&group=none&so=rel&Query=au:%22Stella+Kramrisch%22&si=1>
*Philadelphia Museum of Art Bulletin*, Vol. 52, No. 251 (Autumn, 1956), pp.
14-18

2.Textiles in Ancient India
<http://www.jstor.org/stable/10.2307/3596207?Search=yes&resultItemClick=true&searchText=ancient&searchText=indian&searchText=textile&searchUri=%2Faction%2FdoBasicResults%3FQuery%3Dancient%2Bindian%2Btextile%26amp%3Bacc%3Don%26amp%3Bwc%3Don%26amp%3Bfc%3Doff%26amp%3Bgroup%3Dnone%26amp%3Bso%3Drel%26amp%3Bsi%3D1>
Lallanji Gopal
<http://www.jstor.org/action/doBasicSearch?acc=on&wc=on&fc=off&group=none&so=rel&Query=au:%22Lallanji+Gopal%22&si=1>
*Journal of the Economic and Social History of the Orient*, Vol. 4, No. 1
(Feb., 1961), pp. 53-69

3.The Genesis and Historical Role of the Master Weavers in South Indian
Textile Production
<http://www.jstor.org/stable/10.2307/3631842?Search=yes&resultItemClick=true&searchText=ancient&searchText=indian&searchText=textile&searchUri=%2Faction%2FdoBasicResults%3FQuery%3Dancient%2Bindian%2Btextile%26amp%3Bacc%3Don%26amp%3Bwc%3Don%26amp%3Bfc%3Doff%26amp%3Bgroup%3Dnone%26amp%3Bso%3Drel%26amp%3Bsi%3D1>
Vijaya Ramaswamy
<http://www.jstor.org/action/doBasicSearch?acc=on&wc=on&fc=off&group=none&so=rel&Query=au:%22Vijaya+Ramaswamy%22&si=1>
*Journal of the Economic and Social History of the Orient*, Vol. 28, No. 3
(1985), pp. 294-325


4.The Mobile Museum: Collecting and Circulating Indian Textiles in
Victorian Britain
<http://www.jstor.org/stable/10.2979/vic.2010.52.3.353?Search=yes&resultItemClick=true&searchText=ancient&searchText=indian&searchText=textile&searchUri=%2Faction%2FdoBasicResults%3FQuery%3Dancient%2Bindian%2Btextile%26amp%3Bacc%3Don%26amp%3Bwc%3Don%26amp%3Bfc%3Doff%26amp%3Bgroup%3Dnone%26amp%3Bso%3Drel%26amp%3Bsi%3D1>
Felix Driver
<http://www.jstor.org/action/doBasicSearch?acc=on&wc=on&fc=off&group=none&so=rel&Query=au:%22Felix+Driver%22&si=1>
, Sonia Ashmore
<http://www.jstor.org/action/doBasicSearch?acc=on&wc=on&fc=off&group=none&so=rel&Query=au:%22Sonia+Ashmore%22&si=1>
*Victorian Studies*, Vol. 52, No. 3 (Spring 2010), pp. 353-385

5.Topographies of Taste: Indian Textiles and Mediterranean Contexts
<http://www.jstor.org/stable/10.2307/4629606?Search=yes&resultItemClick=true&searchText=ancient&searchText=indian&searchText=textile&searchUri=%2Faction%2FdoBasicResults%3FQuery%3Dancient%2Bindian%2Btextile%26amp%3Bacc%3Don%26amp%3Bwc%3Don%26amp%3Bfc%3Doff%26amp%3Bgroup%3Dnone%26amp%3Bso%3Drel%26amp%3Bsi%3D1>
Grant Parker
<http://www.jstor.org/action/doBasicSearch?acc=on&wc=on&fc=off&group=none&so=rel&Query=au:%22Grant+Parker%22&si=1>
*Ars Orientalis*, Vol. 34, Communities and Commodities: Western India and
the Indian Ocean, Eleventh-Fifteenth Centuries (2004), pp. 19-37

7.The Genesis and Historical Role of the Master Weavers in South Indian
Textile Production Review
Journal of Indian Textile History, Number 1
<http://www.jstor.org/stable/10.2307/3248547?Search=yes&resultItemClick=true&searchText=ancient&searchText=indian&searchText=textile&searchUri=%2Faction%2FdoBasicResults%3FQuery%3Dancient%2Bindian%2Btextile%26amp%3Bacc%3Don%26amp%3Bwc%3Don%26amp%3Bfc%3Doff%26amp%3Bgroup%3Dnone%26amp%3Bso%3Drel%26amp%3Bsi%3D1>
Review by: Dorothy G. Shepherd
<http://www.jstor.org/action/doBasicSearch?acc=on&wc=on&fc=off&group=none&so=rel&Query=au:%22Dorothy+G.+Shepherd%22&si=1>
*Artibus Asiae*, Vol. 19, No. 1 (1956), pp. 76-77


8.
Analysis of Natural Dyes in Indian Historic Textiles
<http://www.jstor.org/stable/10.2307/1506235?Search=yes&resultItemClick=true&searchText=ancient&searchText=indian&searchText=textile&searchUri=%2Faction%2FdoBasicResults%3FQuery%3Dancient%2Bindian%2Btextile%26amp%3Bacc%3Don%26amp%3Bwc%3Don%26amp%3Bfc%3Doff%26amp%3Bgroup%3Dnone%26amp%3Bso%3Drel%26amp%3Bsi%3D1>
B. V. Kharbade
<http://www.jstor.org/action/doBasicSearch?acc=on&wc=on&fc=off&group=none&so=rel&Query=au:%22B.+V.+Kharbade%22&si=1>
, O. P. Agrawal
<http://www.jstor.org/action/doBasicSearch?acc=on&wc=on&fc=off&group=none&so=rel&Query=au:%22O.+P.+Agrawal%22&si=1>
*Studies in Conservation*, Vol. 33, No. 1 (Feb., 1988), pp. 1-8

9.
A Collection of East Indian Textiles
<http://www.jstor.org/stable/10.2307/25136903?Search=yes&resultItemClick=true&searchText=ancient&searchText=indian&searchText=textile&searchUri=%2Faction%2FdoBasicResults%3FQuery%3Dancient%2Bindian%2Btextile%26amp%3Bacc%3Don%26amp%3Bwc%3Don%26amp%3Bfc%3Doff%26amp%3Bgroup%3Dnone%26amp%3Bso%3Drel%26amp%3Bsi%3D1>
G. U.
<http://www.jstor.org/action/doBasicSearch?acc=on&wc=on&fc=off&group=none&so=rel&Query=au:%22G.+U.%22&si=1>
*The Bulletin of the Cleveland Museum of Art*, Vol. 13, No. 2 (Feb., 1926),
p. 34, 36, 39

10.
An Exhibition of Indian and Indonesian Textiles
<http://www.jstor.org/stable/10.2307/3256087?Search=yes&resultItemClick=true&searchText=ancient&searchText=indian&searchText=textile&searchUri=%2Faction%2FdoBasicResults%3FQuery%3Dancient%2Bindian%2Btextile%26amp%3Bacc%3Don%26amp%3Bwc%3Don%26amp%3Bfc%3Doff%26amp%3Bgroup%3Dnone%26amp%3Bso%3Drel%26amp%3Bsi%3D1>
John Goldsmith Phillips
<http://www.jstor.org/action/doBasicSearch?acc=on&wc=on&fc=off&group=none&so=rel&Query=au:%22John+Goldsmith+Phillips%22&si=1>
*The Metropolitan Museum of Art Bulletin*, Vol. 26, No. 4 (Apr., 1931), pp.
92-95

KSKannan



On Wed, Aug 23, 2017 at 9:50 AM, Nagaraj Paturi <nagarajpaturi at gmail.com>
wrote:

> There were a few threads on the list earlier.
>
> The most recent one was:
>
> https://mail.google.com/mail/u/0/?tab=wm#search/indology+
> textiles/158f34288112d969
>
> On Wed, Aug 23, 2017 at 8:59 AM, Dean Michael Anderson via INDOLOGY <
> indology at list.indology.info> wrote:
>
>> Someone ask if I knew any Hindu " texts that talk about fabrics - dying,
>> weaving, patterns and wearing?  "
>>
>> I'm only aware of the research on the Tarim basin which isn't really what
>> they're looking for.
>>
>> Any suggestions?
>>
>> Best,
>>
>> Dean Anderson
>> East West Cultural Institute
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
>> committee)
>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
>> unsubscribe)
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Nagaraj Paturi
>
> Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.
>
>
> BoS, MIT School of Vedic Sciences, Pune, Maharashtra
>
> BoS, Chinmaya Vishwavidyapeeth, Veliyanad, Kerala
>
> Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies
>
> FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of  Liberal Education,
>
> (Pune, Maharashtra, INDIA )
>
>
>
>



-- 
Nagaraj Paturi

Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.


BoS, MIT School of Vedic Sciences, Pune, Maharashtra

BoS, Chinmaya Vishwavidyapeeth, Veliyanad, Kerala

Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies

FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of  Liberal Education,

(Pune, Maharashtra, INDIA )


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From slaje at kabelmail.de  Wed Aug 23 06:33:23 2017
From: slaje at kabelmail.de (Walter Slaje)
Date: Wed, 23 Aug 17 08:33:23 +0200
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Gita 13.6
In-Reply-To: <1503450542-4561806.03350142.fv7N18Faw029961@rs153.luxsci.com>
Message-ID: <CALoZ1nVmP4b6OL2hseo9gA9Aijwu_LPJ8f03Ja+K928aorc_ZQ@mail.gmail.com>

The Larger Petrograd Dictionary of B?htlingk & Roth (PW) has made it a
principle to cite their sources and to add a direct quote. This is a
considerable advantage over other comprehensive Sanskrit dictionaries.
Searching for evidence of *avyakta* as a noun (m., n.) in the PW, the
success rate is comparatively high. It can be taken as a starting point for
further research.



Regards,
WS


2017-08-23 3:08 GMT+02:00 HR via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info>:

> Thank you. Actually, avyakta is often used as a straightforward adjective,
> as in Bg 2.25. My interest here is when avyakta is used as a noun, as in Bg
> 12.1, or even more to the point, 8.18,20.
>
> Howard
>
> On Aug 22, 2017, at 4:52 AM, alakendu das <mailmealakendudas at rediffmail.
> com> wrote:
>
> Scholar,
>                  The best way to comprehend Avykta or "The unmanifested"is
> available in Gita itself.2.26(or may be 27,)says- A
> chheddyam,Adahhyam,Akleddya,Ashoshya eba cha ,Nitya Sarvagata Sthanu
> Chalayam ,Sanatana
> ........Avyaktayam,Achintyam,Avikaryam ucchyate.The concept of Avyakta in
> our Philosophy is dimensionless,although it
> is the sole EXISTENCE. The fact that it is dimensionless, can be accessed
> from this Upanishadic qoute- Ananu,Asthulam,Arhasham,A
> ..dirgham....etc.," Avyaktam' is the Sumnum Bonum of our Vedanta
> Philosophy.
>                      Alakendu Ds
>
>
>
> Sent from RediffmailNG on Android
>
>
>
>
> From: HR via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info>
> Sent: Tue, 22 Aug 2017 08:23:45 GMT+0530
> To: Indology List <indology at list.indology.info>
> Subject: [INDOLOGY] Gita 13.6
>
> Dear Scholars,
>
>    I would appreciate insights on how we might understand the use of
> ?avyakta,? the ?unmanifest? in the Gita 13.6 and elsewhere as a type of
> element or dimension of this world.
>
> Thanks,
> Howard
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
> committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
> unsubscribe)
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
> committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
> unsubscribe)
>


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From slaje at kabelmail.de  Wed Aug 23 07:00:46 2017
From: slaje at kabelmail.de (Walter Slaje)
Date: Wed, 23 Aug 17 09:00:46 +0200
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Gita 13.6
In-Reply-To: <CAJGj9ea-wfizV-fd8QD=O32G1KR3M_7Y5qoF8wRq0kjdBYm5hw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CALoZ1nXSMVnxMBzOSOKkzNc=pFxMwFNEaWpoMONj531DAPi6iA@mail.gmail.com>

A grammatically meticulous analysis of all words, their gender and
inflection, as they occur in the BhG, will be found here:

R.B.P.C. Divanji, ?r?madbhagavadg?t?vivecan?tmaka?abdako?a?: Critical
Word-Index to the Bhagavadg?t?. Reprint [of the edition of 1946]. New Delhi
1993.

I quote from the preface of A. Wezler: "There is no tool like this index
[...] Divanji's work remains unsurpassed. [...] compared to it, R. J.
Venkateswaran's Dictionary of Bhagavad Gita (Delhi 1991) looks like the
scribble of an absolute beginner."

Regards again,
WS


2017-08-23 4:17 GMT+02:00 Nagaraj Paturi via INDOLOGY <
indology at list.indology.info>:

> Dear HR-ji,
>
> noun not adjective.
>
> Yes, that is what I was about to point out.
>
> In 13.6, it is a part of categories into which the "knowable field" as
> opposed to the "field - knower"  is  divided.
>
> ????????????????? ???????????????? ? ?
> ??????????? ?????? ? ?~??? ??????????????? ? 13\-6?
>
> Similar is its use in 8-18, 8-20
>
> ?????????? ???????? ?????? ???????????????? ?
>
> ??????????? ?????????? ??????????????????? ? 8\-18?
>
>
> ????????????? ???? ????? ???????? ???????????????? ?
>
> ?? ? ??????? ?????? ???????? ? ???????? ? 8\-20?
>
>
> The words element and dimension used by you are very apt.
>
>
> Interestingly it is both a dimension and element.
>
>
> Just for analogy, space and time in contemporary Physics are both
> dimensions and components. (Post Einstein, they are components of a
> continuum.)
>
>
> mah?bh?t?ni, indriyagoocar?h are part of the vyakta component. ahank?rah,
> buddhih, indriy??i are parts of neither parts of the vyakta nor of the
> avykta.
>
>
> This vyakta, avyakta division has its foundations right from the rigvedic
> expressions such as
>
>
> p?d?sya vi?v?bh?t?ni trip?dasy?mr?tam divi.
>
>
> v?d?ham?tam puru?am mah?ntam ?dityavar?am tamasah parast?t.
>
>
>
>
>
> On Wed, Aug 23, 2017 at 6:38 AM, HR via INDOLOGY <
> indology at list.indology.info> wrote:
>
>> Thank you. Actually, avyakta is often used as a straightforward
>> adjective, as in Bg 2.25. My interest here is when avyakta is used as a
>> noun, as in Bg 12.1, or even more to the point, 8.18,20.
>>
>> Howard
>>
>> On Aug 22, 2017, at 4:52 AM, alakendu das <mailmealakendudas at rediffmail.
>> com> wrote:
>>
>> Scholar,
>>                  The best way to comprehend Avykta or "The
>> unmanifested"is available in Gita itself.2.26(or may be 27,)says- A
>> chheddyam,Adahhyam,Akleddya,Ashoshya eba cha ,Nitya Sarvagata Sthanu
>> Chalayam ,Sanatana
>> ........Avyaktayam,Achintyam,Avikaryam ucchyate.The concept of Avyakta
>> in our Philosophy is dimensionless,although it
>> is the sole EXISTENCE. The fact that it is dimensionless, can be accessed
>> from this Upanishadic qoute- Ananu,Asthulam,Arhasham,A
>> ..dirgham....etc.," Avyaktam' is the Sumnum Bonum of our Vedanta
>> Philosophy.
>>                      Alakendu Ds
>>
>>
>>
>> Sent from RediffmailNG on Android
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> From: HR via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info>
>> Sent: Tue, 22 Aug 2017 08:23:45 GMT+0530
>> To: Indology List <indology at list.indology.info>
>> Subject: [INDOLOGY] Gita 13.6
>>
>> Dear Scholars,
>>
>>    I would appreciate insights on how we might understand the use of
>> ?avyakta,? the ?unmanifest? in the Gita 13.6 and elsewhere as a type of
>> element or dimension of this world.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Howard
>> _______________________________________________
>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
>> committee)
>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
>> unsubscribe)
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
>> committee)
>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
>> unsubscribe)
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Nagaraj Paturi
>
> Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.
>
>
> BoS, MIT School of Vedic Sciences, Pune, Maharashtra
>
> BoS, Chinmaya Vishwavidyapeeth, Veliyanad, Kerala
>
> Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies
>
> FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of  Liberal Education,
>
> (Pune, Maharashtra, INDIA )
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
> committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
> unsubscribe)
>


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From arlogriffiths at hotmail.com  Wed Aug 23 07:14:51 2017
From: arlogriffiths at hotmail.com (Arlo Griffiths)
Date: Wed, 23 Aug 17 07:14:51 +0000
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Starting a new academic journal
In-Reply-To: <CAKdt-Cfs3o0r1euQLpY5CKDY-QS-KAA+F9x4CPyjD3_ggkR6Vg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <HE1PR0902MB17537887D0C19AEF5914FCABA5850@HE1PR0902MB1753.eurprd09.prod.outlook.com>

Dear Dominik,


There is of course an another 'old model' (perhaps older than the one involving for-profit enterprises against which you protest): that of an academic institution or learned society running its own scholarly journal and publishing it wholly independently or with only marginal involvement of any for-profit enterprise.


Some of our best and most venerable journals belong to this category. To name but five, from five different countries:


Annals of the Bhandarkar Oriental Research Institute

Bulletin de l'?cole fran?aise d'Extr?me-Orient

Journal of the American Oriental Society

Wiener Zeitschrift f?r die Kunde S?dasiens

Zeitschrift der Deutschen Morgenl?ndischen Gesellschaft


I personally prefer to support and publish in these kinds of journals, and have wondered why colleagues feel the need to create new journals if excellent old ones already exist, outside of the for-profit publishing framework.


Best wishes,


Arlo Griffiths



________________________________
From: INDOLOGY <indology-bounces at list.indology.info> on behalf of Dominik Wujastyk via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info>
Sent: Tuesday, August 22, 2017 8:23 PM
To: Indology
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Starting a new academic journal

Dear colleagues,

New academic journals spring up with surprising frequency.  Indeed, I launched one<http://hssa-journal.org> myself.  I am surprised, however, to see how many of the journals relevant to Indology still function on what I think of as the "old model," and are run as for-profit enterprises by commercial companies like Springer, Elsevier, Brill and others, whose first duty is not to the growth of knowledge, but to their shareholders.

This problem of forked loyalty was starkly demonstrated this last week, when Cambridge University Press bowed to pressure from the Chinese Government, and voluntarily censored the content of its journal China Quarterly, withdrawing 300 articles that touched on topics sensitive to the PRC's communist government including the Tienanmen Square massacre and Tibet.  The reason given by the press was (in my words) that it was willing to sacrifice intellectual integrity for the purpose of continuing to sell the broad range of its products in the Chinese market.  The press has since changed its mind<http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2017/08/cambridge-university-press-posts-censored-articles-170822075543589.html> as a result of widespread incredulity and outrage from the academic establishment.  It might be uncharitable to view it this way, but one can't help thinking that CUP continues make decisions based on the bottom line, and has simply decided that it stands to lose more by alienating its domestic academic market than the Chinese one.

There are now robust alternatives to the old model.  For many years, the Public Knowledge Project<https://pkp.sfu.ca/> at Canada's Simon Fraser University has been distributing excellent free software for running academic journals.  From the technical point of view, it is really quite easy to set up and run an online, Open Access journal.  If one needs technical help, the PKP can provide advice.

There are also important initiatives such as the Open Library of the Humanities<https://www.openlibhums.org/> that provide support<https://www.openlibhums.org/site/academics/journal-applications-to-join-the-olh/> for new or existing Open Access journals.  The OLH is important for two reasons.  First, it has a robust business model.  Second, it is alive to new and emerging forms of academic publishing, including the very interesting systems like archivX, PLOS, PeerJ, and JSTOR that have developed in scientific publishing. OLH is particularly inspired by PLOS<https://www.plos.org/>, and can partly be seen as a project to give humanistic scholars the kinds of benefit already enjoyed by scientists.

If you are thinking of  launching a new journal, please look at projects like OLH.  They might provide everything you need, including adherence to the OA principles and the business models of the future.

If you want to publish an article, think first of the Open Access journals might give you the peer-review, impact and quality that you are looking for.  The DOAJ<http://doaj.org> is an index of OA journals, and offers a lot of discussion and documentation about all the issues I raise here.

Best wishes,
Dominik


--
Professor Dominik Wujastyk<http://ualberta.academia.edu/DominikWujastyk>
,

Singhmar Chair in Classical Indian Society and Polity
,

Department of History and Classics<http://historyandclassics.ualberta.ca/>
,
University of Alberta, Canada
.

South Asia at the U of A:

sas.ualberta.ca<http://sas.ualberta.ca/>



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From emstern1948 at gmail.com  Wed Aug 23 07:54:16 2017
From: emstern1948 at gmail.com (Elliot Stern)
Date: Wed, 23 Aug 17 03:54:16 -0400
Subject: [INDOLOGY] article pdf request
Message-ID: <C177A070-D0FB-440D-A2AC-C62055A2B0C1@gmail.com>

Dear list members:

I am looking for a pdf of:

T. Burrow, Dravidian Studies VII Further Dravidian Words in Sanskrit  (Bulletin of the School of Oriental and African Studies, University of London, Vol. 12, No. 2 (1948), pp. 365-396).

If you can supply this, please reply off list.

Thank you,

Elliot Stern



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From hermantull at gmail.com  Wed Aug 23 09:38:39 2017
From: hermantull at gmail.com (Herman Tull)
Date: Wed, 23 Aug 17 05:38:39 -0400
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Starting a new academic journal
In-Reply-To: <CAKdt-Cfs3o0r1euQLpY5CKDY-QS-KAA+F9x4CPyjD3_ggkR6Vg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAFdBLNhz1zdf_Rzoi2zKYF7GYFCpGXvmNKs+edpuRz1TTgo=uA@mail.gmail.com>

Dominik,

Do you have a list of open-access journals relevant to Indology that you
could share with the list?

with regards,

Herman

Herman Tull


On Tue, Aug 22, 2017 at 4:23 PM, Dominik Wujastyk via INDOLOGY <
indology at list.indology.info> wrote:

> Dear colleagues,
>
> New academic journals spring up with surprising frequency.  Indeed, I
> launched one <http://hssa-journal.org> myself.  I am surprised, however,
> to see how many of the journals relevant to Indology still function on what
> I think of as the "old model," and are run as for-profit enterprises by
> commercial companies like Springer, Elsevier, Brill and others, whose first
> duty is not to the growth of knowledge, but to their shareholders.
>
> This problem of forked loyalty was starkly demonstrated this last week,
> when Cambridge University Press bowed to pressure from the Chinese
> Government, and voluntarily censored the content of its journal *China
> Quarterly,* withdrawing 300 articles that touched on topics sensitive to
> the PRC's communist government including the Tienanmen Square massacre and
> Tibet.  The reason given by the press was (in my words) that it was willing
> to sacrifice intellectual integrity for the purpose of continuing to sell
> the broad range of its products in the Chinese market.  The press has since changed
> its mind
> <http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2017/08/cambridge-university-press-posts-censored-articles-170822075543589.html>
> as a result of widespread incredulity and outrage from the academic
> establishment.  It might be uncharitable to view it this way, but one can't
> help thinking that CUP continues make decisions based on the bottom line,
> and has simply decided that it stands to lose more by alienating its
> domestic academic market than the Chinese one.
>
> There are now robust alternatives to the old model.  For many years, the Public
> Knowledge Project <https://pkp.sfu.ca/> at Canada's Simon Fraser
> University has been distributing excellent free software for running
> academic journals.  From the technical point of view, it is really quite
> easy to set up and run an online, Open Access journal.  If one needs
> technical help, the PKP can provide advice.
>
> There are also important initiatives such as the Open Library of the
> Humanities <https://www.openlibhums.org/> that provide support
> <https://www.openlibhums.org/site/academics/journal-applications-to-join-the-olh/>
> for new or existing Open Access journals.  The OLH is important for two
> reasons.  First, it has a robust business model.  Second, it is alive to
> new and emerging forms of academic publishing, including the very
> interesting systems like archivX, PLOS, PeerJ, and JSTOR that have
> developed in scientific publishing. OLH is particularly inspired by PLOS
> <https://www.plos.org/>, and can partly be seen as a project to give
> humanistic scholars the kinds of benefit already enjoyed by scientists.
>
> If you are thinking of  launching a new journal, please look at projects
> like OLH.  They might provide everything you need, including adherence to
> the OA principles and the business models of the future.
>
> If you want to publish an article, think first of the Open Access journals
> might give you the peer-review, impact and quality that you are looking
> for.  The DOAJ <http://doaj.org> is an index of OA journals, and offers a
> lot of discussion and documentation about all the issues I raise here.
>
> Best wishes,
> Dominik
>
>
> ?
> --
> Professor Dominik Wujastyk <http://ualberta.academia.edu/DominikWujastyk>
> ?,?
>
> Singhmar Chair in Classical Indian Society and Polity
> ?,?
>
> Department of History and Classics
> <http://historyandclassics.ualberta.ca/>
> ?,?
> University of Alberta, Canada
> ?.?
>
> South Asia at the U of A:
>
> ?sas.ualberta.ca?
> ??
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
> committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
> unsubscribe)
>


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From jemhouben at gmail.com  Wed Aug 23 10:09:57 2017
From: jemhouben at gmail.com (Jan E.M. Houben)
Date: Wed, 23 Aug 17 11:09:57 +0100
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Starting a new academic journal
In-Reply-To: <CAFdBLNhz1zdf_Rzoi2zKYF7GYFCpGXvmNKs+edpuRz1TTgo=uA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAGCGLoDeLb9G8Qq=MtCimu5918dMD1WAdRRndjvu2Sho9DyjcQ@mail.gmail.com>

would indeed be useful to have an up to date list; one of them is eJIM "a
multidisciplinary periodical that publishes studies on traditional South
Asian medical systems by qualified scholars in philology, medicine,
pharmacology, botany, anthropology and sociology"
http://www.indianmedicine.nl/
Jan Houben

On 23 August 2017 at 10:38, Herman Tull via INDOLOGY <
indology at list.indology.info> wrote:

> Dominik,
>
> Do you have a list of open-access journals relevant to Indology that you
> could share with the list?
>
> with regards,
>
> Herman
>
> Herman Tull
>
>
> On Tue, Aug 22, 2017 at 4:23 PM, Dominik Wujastyk via INDOLOGY <
> indology at list.indology.info> wrote:
>
>> Dear colleagues,
>>
>> New academic journals spring up with surprising frequency.  Indeed, I
>> launched one <http://hssa-journal.org> myself.  I am surprised, however,
>> to see how many of the journals relevant to Indology still function on what
>> I think of as the "old model," and are run as for-profit enterprises by
>> commercial companies like Springer, Elsevier, Brill and others, whose first
>> duty is not to the growth of knowledge, but to their shareholders.
>>
>> This problem of forked loyalty was starkly demonstrated this last week,
>> when Cambridge University Press bowed to pressure from the Chinese
>> Government, and voluntarily censored the content of its journal *China
>> Quarterly,* withdrawing 300 articles that touched on topics sensitive to
>> the PRC's communist government including the Tienanmen Square massacre and
>> Tibet.  The reason given by the press was (in my words) that it was willing
>> to sacrifice intellectual integrity for the purpose of continuing to sell
>> the broad range of its products in the Chinese market.  The press has since changed
>> its mind
>> <http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2017/08/cambridge-university-press-posts-censored-articles-170822075543589.html>
>> as a result of widespread incredulity and outrage from the academic
>> establishment.  It might be uncharitable to view it this way, but one can't
>> help thinking that CUP continues make decisions based on the bottom line,
>> and has simply decided that it stands to lose more by alienating its
>> domestic academic market than the Chinese one.
>>
>> There are now robust alternatives to the old model.  For many years, the Public
>> Knowledge Project <https://pkp.sfu.ca/> at Canada's Simon Fraser
>> University has been distributing excellent free software for running
>> academic journals.  From the technical point of view, it is really quite
>> easy to set up and run an online, Open Access journal.  If one needs
>> technical help, the PKP can provide advice.
>>
>> There are also important initiatives such as the Open Library of the
>> Humanities <https://www.openlibhums.org/> that provide support
>> <https://www.openlibhums.org/site/academics/journal-applications-to-join-the-olh/>
>> for new or existing Open Access journals.  The OLH is important for two
>> reasons.  First, it has a robust business model.  Second, it is alive to
>> new and emerging forms of academic publishing, including the very
>> interesting systems like archivX, PLOS, PeerJ, and JSTOR that have
>> developed in scientific publishing. OLH is particularly inspired by PLOS
>> <https://www.plos.org/>, and can partly be seen as a project to give
>> humanistic scholars the kinds of benefit already enjoyed by scientists.
>>
>> If you are thinking of  launching a new journal, please look at projects
>> like OLH.  They might provide everything you need, including adherence to
>> the OA principles and the business models of the future.
>>
>> If you want to publish an article, think first of the Open Access
>> journals might give you the peer-review, impact and quality that you are
>> looking for.  The DOAJ <http://doaj.org> is an index of OA journals, and
>> offers a lot of discussion and documentation about all the issues I raise
>> here.
>>
>> Best wishes,
>> Dominik
>>
>>
>> ?
>> --
>> Professor Dominik Wujastyk <http://ualberta.academia.edu/DominikWujastyk>
>> ?,?
>>
>> Singhmar Chair in Classical Indian Society and Polity
>> ?,?
>>
>> Department of History and Classics
>> <http://historyandclassics.ualberta.ca/>
>> ?,?
>> University of Alberta, Canada
>> ?.?
>>
>> South Asia at the U of A:
>>
>> ?sas.ualberta.ca?
>> ??
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
>> committee)
>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
>> unsubscribe)
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
> committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
> unsubscribe)
>


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From LubinT at wlu.edu  Wed Aug 23 12:33:38 2017
From: LubinT at wlu.edu (Lubin, Tim)
Date: Wed, 23 Aug 17 12:33:38 +0000
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Starting a new academic journal
In-Reply-To: <HE1PR0902MB17537887D0C19AEF5914FCABA5850@HE1PR0902MB1753.eurprd09.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <D5C2EE3B.46542%lubint@wlu.edu>

Colleagues,

I very nearly wrote in with a similar suggestion about journals produced by scholarly institutions and societies.  I will only add that the JAOS has the added virtue that it assigns copyright to authors.  Many of these journals are openly available on the internet (via JSTOR or Pers?e, etc.) with only the last 3 or 5 years protected to encourage subscription.  For JAOS, the ?look back? is only 3 years.

Best,

Tim Lubin

From: INDOLOGY <indology-bounces at list.indology.info<mailto:indology-bounces at list.indology.info>> on behalf of INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info<mailto:indology at list.indology.info>>
Reply-To: Arlo Griffiths <arlogriffiths at hotmail.com<mailto:arlogriffiths at hotmail.com>>
Date: Wednesday, August 23, 2017 at 3:14 AM
To: INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info<mailto:indology at list.indology.info>>
Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] Starting a new academic journal


Dear Dominik,


There is of course an another 'old model' (perhaps older than the one involving for-profit enterprises against which you protest): that of an academic institution or learned society running its own scholarly journal and publishing it wholly independently or with only marginal involvement of any for-profit enterprise.


Some of our best and most venerable journals belong to this category. To name but five, from five different countries:


Annals of the Bhandarkar Oriental Research Institute

Bulletin de l'?cole fran?aise d'Extr?me-Orient

Journal of the American Oriental Society

Wiener Zeitschrift f?r die Kunde S?dasiens

Zeitschrift der Deutschen Morgenl?ndischen Gesellschaft


I personally prefer to support and publish in these kinds of journals, and have wondered why colleagues feel the need to create new journals if excellent old ones already exist, outside of the for-profit publishing framework.


Best wishes,


Arlo Griffiths



________________________________
From: INDOLOGY <indology-bounces at list.indology.info<mailto:indology-bounces at list.indology.info>> on behalf of Dominik Wujastyk via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info<mailto:indology at list.indology.info>>
Sent: Tuesday, August 22, 2017 8:23 PM
To: Indology
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Starting a new academic journal

Dear colleagues,

New academic journals spring up with surprising frequency.  Indeed, I launched one<http://hssa-journal.org> myself.  I am surprised, however, to see how many of the journals relevant to Indology still function on what I think of as the "old model," and are run as for-profit enterprises by commercial companies like Springer, Elsevier, Brill and others, whose first duty is not to the growth of knowledge, but to their shareholders.

This problem of forked loyalty was starkly demonstrated this last week, when Cambridge University Press bowed to pressure from the Chinese Government, and voluntarily censored the content of its journal China Quarterly, withdrawing 300 articles that touched on topics sensitive to the PRC's communist government including the Tienanmen Square massacre and Tibet.  The reason given by the press was (in my words) that it was willing to sacrifice intellectual integrity for the purpose of continuing to sell the broad range of its products in the Chinese market.  The press has since changed its mind<http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2017/08/cambridge-university-press-posts-censored-articles-170822075543589.html> as a result of widespread incredulity and outrage from the academic establishment.  It might be uncharitable to view it this way, but one can't help thinking that CUP continues make decisions based on the bottom line, and has simply decided that it stands to lose more by alienating its domestic academic market than the Chinese one.

There are now robust alternatives to the old model.  For many years, the Public Knowledge Project<https://pkp.sfu.ca/> at Canada's Simon Fraser University has been distributing excellent free software for running academic journals.  From the technical point of view, it is really quite easy to set up and run an online, Open Access journal.  If one needs technical help, the PKP can provide advice.

There are also important initiatives such as the Open Library of the Humanities<https://www.openlibhums.org/> that provide support<https://www.openlibhums.org/site/academics/journal-applications-to-join-the-olh/> for new or existing Open Access journals.  The OLH is important for two reasons.  First, it has a robust business model.  Second, it is alive to new and emerging forms of academic publishing, including the very interesting systems like archivX, PLOS, PeerJ, and JSTOR that have developed in scientific publishing. OLH is particularly inspired by PLOS<https://www.plos.org/>, and can partly be seen as a project to give humanistic scholars the kinds of benefit already enjoyed by scientists.

If you are thinking of  launching a new journal, please look at projects like OLH.  They might provide everything you need, including adherence to the OA principles and the business models of the future.

If you want to publish an article, think first of the Open Access journals might give you the peer-review, impact and quality that you are looking for.  The DOAJ<http://doaj.org> is an index of OA journals, and offers a lot of discussion and documentation about all the issues I raise here.

Best wishes,
Dominik


--
Professor Dominik Wujastyk<http://ualberta.academia.edu/DominikWujastyk>
,

Singhmar Chair in Classical Indian Society and Polity
,

Department of History and Classics<http://historyandclassics.ualberta.ca/>
,
University of Alberta, Canada
.

South Asia at the U of A:

sas.ualberta.ca<http://sas.ualberta.ca/>



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From ondracka at ff.cuni.cz  Wed Aug 23 14:04:34 2017
From: ondracka at ff.cuni.cz (=?utf-8?Q?Lubom=C3=ADr_Ondra=C4=8Dka?=)
Date: Wed, 23 Aug 17 16:04:34 +0200
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Starting a new academic journal
In-Reply-To: <D5C2EE3B.46542%lubint@wlu.edu>
Message-ID: <20170823160434.eec3982ce6e318e5a324d03c@ff.cuni.cz>

Well, it's not exactly that "these journals are openly available on the internet" if you understand "openly" as an Open Access. Your institution has to have a subscription to a particular JSTOR collection to access a specific journal (e.g. JAOS articles are free for download at JSTOR only for the years 1843?1922). 

And JSTOR's main goal (similarly as in the case of all other paid platforms) is to maximize their profit, so they distribute journals of one subject area into several (typically almost all) collections forcing academic institutions to buy all of them (at present JSTOR has fifteen Arts & Sciences collections). Since it's very expensive to buy all collections, many institutions have subscription only for the first 3?5, or for the so called JSTOR Essential which includes about one third of all titles.

So even if your institution has a subscription to JSTOR, very rarely it is a subscription to ALL collections, so many important Indological journals still remain inaccessible to most of us. So I fully support Dominik's urge for publishing in truly OA journals or in journals where the author is the copyright holder and a contract alows her/him to upload some version of the article at some OA platform (like academia.edu).

Best,
Lubomir




On Wed, 23 Aug 2017 12:33:38 +0000
"Lubin, Tim via INDOLOGY" <indology at list.indology.info> wrote:

> Colleagues,
> 
> I very nearly wrote in with a similar suggestion about journals produced by scholarly institutions and societies.  I will only add that the JAOS has the added virtue that it assigns copyright to authors.  Many of these journals are openly available on the internet (via JSTOR or Pers?e, etc.) with only the last 3 or 5 years protected to encourage subscription.  For JAOS, the ?look back? is only 3 years.
> 
> Best,
> 
> Tim Lubin
> 
> From: INDOLOGY <indology-bounces at list.indology.info<mailto:indology-bounces at list.indology.info>> on behalf of INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info<mailto:indology at list.indology.info>>
> Reply-To: Arlo Griffiths <arlogriffiths at hotmail.com<mailto:arlogriffiths at hotmail.com>>
> Date: Wednesday, August 23, 2017 at 3:14 AM
> To: INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info<mailto:indology at list.indology.info>>
> Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] Starting a new academic journal
> 
> 
> Dear Dominik,
> 
> 
> There is of course an another 'old model' (perhaps older than the one involving for-profit enterprises against which you protest): that of an academic institution or learned society running its own scholarly journal and publishing it wholly independently or with only marginal involvement of any for-profit enterprise.
> 
> 
> Some of our best and most venerable journals belong to this category. To name but five, from five different countries:
> 
> 
> Annals of the Bhandarkar Oriental Research Institute
> 
> Bulletin de l'?cole fran?aise d'Extr?me-Orient
> 
> Journal of the American Oriental Society
> 
> Wiener Zeitschrift f?r die Kunde S?dasiens
> 
> Zeitschrift der Deutschen Morgenl?ndischen Gesellschaft
> 
> 
> I personally prefer to support and publish in these kinds of journals, and have wondered why colleagues feel the need to create new journals if excellent old ones already exist, outside of the for-profit publishing framework.
> 
> 
> Best wishes,
> 
> 
> Arlo Griffiths
> 
> 
> 
> ________________________________
> From: INDOLOGY <indology-bounces at list.indology.info<mailto:indology-bounces at list.indology.info>> on behalf of Dominik Wujastyk via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info<mailto:indology at list.indology.info>>
> Sent: Tuesday, August 22, 2017 8:23 PM
> To: Indology
> Subject: [INDOLOGY] Starting a new academic journal
> 
> Dear colleagues,
> 
> New academic journals spring up with surprising frequency.  Indeed, I launched one<http://hssa-journal.org> myself.  I am surprised, however, to see how many of the journals relevant to Indology still function on what I think of as the "old model," and are run as for-profit enterprises by commercial companies like Springer, Elsevier, Brill and others, whose first duty is not to the growth of knowledge, but to their shareholders.
> 
> This problem of forked loyalty was starkly demonstrated this last week, when Cambridge University Press bowed to pressure from the Chinese Government, and voluntarily censored the content of its journal China Quarterly, withdrawing 300 articles that touched on topics sensitive to the PRC's communist government including the Tienanmen Square massacre and Tibet.  The reason given by the press was (in my words) that it was willing to sacrifice intellectual integrity for the purpose of continuing to sell the broad range of its products in the Chinese market.  The press has since changed its mind<http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2017/08/cambridge-university-press-posts-censored-articles-170822075543589.html> as a result of widespread incredulity and outrage from the academic establishment.  It might be uncharitable to view it this way, but one can't help thinking that CUP continues make decisions based on the bottom line, and has simply decided that it stands to lose more by alienating its domestic academic market than the Chinese one.
> 
> There are now robust alternatives to the old model.  For many years, the Public Knowledge Project<https://pkp.sfu.ca/> at Canada's Simon Fraser University has been distributing excellent free software for running academic journals.  From the technical point of view, it is really quite easy to set up and run an online, Open Access journal.  If one needs technical help, the PKP can provide advice.
> 
> There are also important initiatives such as the Open Library of the Humanities<https://www.openlibhums.org/> that provide support<https://www.openlibhums.org/site/academics/journal-applications-to-join-the-olh/> for new or existing Open Access journals.  The OLH is important for two reasons.  First, it has a robust business model.  Second, it is alive to new and emerging forms of academic publishing, including the very interesting systems like archivX, PLOS, PeerJ, and JSTOR that have developed in scientific publishing. OLH is particularly inspired by PLOS<https://www.plos.org/>, and can partly be seen as a project to give humanistic scholars the kinds of benefit already enjoyed by scientists.
> 
> If you are thinking of  launching a new journal, please look at projects like OLH.  They might provide everything you need, including adherence to the OA principles and the business models of the future.
> 
> If you want to publish an article, think first of the Open Access journals might give you the peer-review, impact and quality that you are looking for.  The DOAJ<http://doaj.org> is an index of OA journals, and offers a lot of discussion and documentation about all the issues I raise here.
> 
> Best wishes,
> Dominik
> 
> 
> --
> Professor Dominik Wujastyk<http://ualberta.academia.edu/DominikWujastyk>
> ,
> 
> Singhmar Chair in Classical Indian Society and Polity
> ,
> 
> Department of History and Classics<http://historyandclassics.ualberta.ca/>
> ,
> University of Alberta, Canada
> .
> 
> South Asia at the U of A:
> 
> sas.ualberta.ca<http://sas.ualberta.ca/>
> 





From emstern1948 at gmail.com  Wed Aug 23 17:36:04 2017
From: emstern1948 at gmail.com (Elliot Stern)
Date: Wed, 23 Aug 17 13:36:04 -0400
Subject: [INDOLOGY] additional thanks
Message-ID: <AEECADE0-EF07-4624-9456-3C446BD79644@gmail.com>

I skipped over Herman Tull when I thanked you for the rapid response for a pdf of Burrow 1948. Thank you, Herman!

Elliot




From wujastyk at gmail.com  Wed Aug 23 20:39:43 2017
From: wujastyk at gmail.com (Dominik Wujastyk)
Date: Wed, 23 Aug 17 14:39:43 -0600
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Starting a new academic journal
In-Reply-To: <249918FC-ABE6-4653-A1D5-8B3A051B6BA9@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAKdt-CcEMd5szoiG2M_Km8CvmNiCf9a_HufOpwuVuo8oCqVLPw@mail.gmail.com>

Dear Ashok, The OLH website is mainly concerned with this question.  The
information begins here
<https://www.openlibhums.org/site/about/the-olh-model/>.  The general idea
is that libraries and scholarly charities pay the OLH to produce OA
journals.  It's cheaper than the libraries having to buy commercial journal
licenses.  Plus, the research paid for by the taxpayer is freely available
to the taxpayer.

Best,
Dominik

?
--
Professor Dominik Wujastyk <http://ualberta.academia.edu/DominikWujastyk>
?,?

Singhmar Chair in Classical Indian Society and Polity
?,?

Department of History and Classics <http://historyandclassics.ualberta.ca/>
?,?
University of Alberta, Canada
?.?

South Asia at the U of A:

?sas.ualberta.ca?
??


On 22 August 2017 at 20:14, Ashok Aklujkar <ashok.aklujkar at gmail.com> wrote:

> Dear Dominik,
>
> You wrote: >The OLH [=  Open Library of the Humanities
> <https://www.openlibhums.org/>] ? has a robust business model.<
>
> How did it come to develop this model and how can it maintain (or continue
> to maintain) the model? The services it provides must cost something. Who
> pays for them?
>
> Thanks for the guidance you are providing to Indologists.
>
> a.a.
>
>


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From wujastyk at gmail.com  Wed Aug 23 20:48:01 2017
From: wujastyk at gmail.com (Dominik Wujastyk)
Date: Wed, 23 Aug 17 14:48:01 -0600
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Starting a new academic journal
In-Reply-To: <CAFdBLNhz1zdf_Rzoi2zKYF7GYFCpGXvmNKs+edpuRz1TTgo=uA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAKdt-CcyG48hzf7p_w+ECdNgwnHCPk-5d1W71hEumCbrdq-OGA@mail.gmail.com>

Funny you should ask, yes I do:

https://cikitsa.blogspot.ca/2013/01/some-oa-journals-that-publish-s-asia.html


The DOAJ.org is also keyword-searchable, so one can check from time to time
whether new India-related titles have appeared.

?
--
Professor Dominik Wujastyk <http://ualberta.academia.edu/DominikWujastyk>
?,?

Singhmar Chair in Classical Indian Society and Polity
?,?

Department of History and Classics <http://historyandclassics.ualberta.ca/>
?,?
University of Alberta, Canada
?.?

South Asia at the U of A:

?sas.ualberta.ca?
??


On 23 August 2017 at 03:38, Herman Tull <hermantull at gmail.com> wrote:

> Dominik,
>
> Do you have a list of open-access journals relevant to Indology that you
> could share with the list?
>
> with regards,
>
> Herman
>
> Herman Tull
>
>
> On Tue, Aug 22, 2017 at 4:23 PM, Dominik Wujastyk via INDOLOGY <
> indology at list.indology.info> wrote:
>
>> Dear colleagues,
>>
>> New academic journals spring up with surprising frequency.  Indeed, I
>> launched one <http://hssa-journal.org> myself.  I am surprised, however,
>> to see how many of the journals relevant to Indology still function on what
>> I think of as the "old model," and are run as for-profit enterprises by
>> commercial companies like Springer, Elsevier, Brill and others, whose first
>> duty is not to the growth of knowledge, but to their shareholders.
>>
>> This problem of forked loyalty was starkly demonstrated this last week,
>> when Cambridge University Press bowed to pressure from the Chinese
>> Government, and voluntarily censored the content of its journal *China
>> Quarterly,* withdrawing 300 articles that touched on topics sensitive to
>> the PRC's communist government including the Tienanmen Square massacre and
>> Tibet.  The reason given by the press was (in my words) that it was willing
>> to sacrifice intellectual integrity for the purpose of continuing to sell
>> the broad range of its products in the Chinese market.  The press has since changed
>> its mind
>> <http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2017/08/cambridge-university-press-posts-censored-articles-170822075543589.html>
>> as a result of widespread incredulity and outrage from the academic
>> establishment.  It might be uncharitable to view it this way, but one can't
>> help thinking that CUP continues make decisions based on the bottom line,
>> and has simply decided that it stands to lose more by alienating its
>> domestic academic market than the Chinese one.
>>
>> There are now robust alternatives to the old model.  For many years, the Public
>> Knowledge Project <https://pkp.sfu.ca/> at Canada's Simon Fraser
>> University has been distributing excellent free software for running
>> academic journals.  From the technical point of view, it is really quite
>> easy to set up and run an online, Open Access journal.  If one needs
>> technical help, the PKP can provide advice.
>>
>> There are also important initiatives such as the Open Library of the
>> Humanities <https://www.openlibhums.org/> that provide support
>> <https://www.openlibhums.org/site/academics/journal-applications-to-join-the-olh/>
>> for new or existing Open Access journals.  The OLH is important for two
>> reasons.  First, it has a robust business model.  Second, it is alive to
>> new and emerging forms of academic publishing, including the very
>> interesting systems like archivX, PLOS, PeerJ, and JSTOR that have
>> developed in scientific publishing. OLH is particularly inspired by PLOS
>> <https://www.plos.org/>, and can partly be seen as a project to give
>> humanistic scholars the kinds of benefit already enjoyed by scientists.
>>
>> If you are thinking of  launching a new journal, please look at projects
>> like OLH.  They might provide everything you need, including adherence to
>> the OA principles and the business models of the future.
>>
>> If you want to publish an article, think first of the Open Access
>> journals might give you the peer-review, impact and quality that you are
>> looking for.  The DOAJ <http://doaj.org> is an index of OA journals, and
>> offers a lot of discussion and documentation about all the issues I raise
>> here.
>>
>> Best wishes,
>> Dominik
>>
>>
>> ?
>> --
>> Professor Dominik Wujastyk <http://ualberta.academia.edu/DominikWujastyk>
>> ?,?
>>
>> Singhmar Chair in Classical Indian Society and Polity
>> ?,?
>>
>> Department of History and Classics
>> <http://historyandclassics.ualberta.ca/>
>> ?,?
>> University of Alberta, Canada
>> ?.?
>>
>> South Asia at the U of A:
>>
>> ?sas.ualberta.ca?
>> ??
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
>> committee)
>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
>> unsubscribe)
>>
>
>


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From wujastyk at gmail.com  Wed Aug 23 20:52:56 2017
From: wujastyk at gmail.com (Dominik Wujastyk)
Date: Wed, 23 Aug 17 14:52:56 -0600
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Starting a new academic journal
In-Reply-To: <D5C2EE3B.46542%lubint@wlu.edu>
Message-ID: <CAKdt-Cf7fK7+30iEos2Uro3kqjFLH9R3LQ_YHeyv09_0vhi0cw@mail.gmail.com>

Since it takes a couple of years for an article to go from submission to
publication in JAOS, the three-year paywall means that JSTOR readers are
reading five-year-old research.  Older, if you factor-in the writing and
research period before submission.

Plus, JSTOR membership itself isn't free.   Many of us don't notice this,
but a pandit in Thanjavur, for example, can't read the JAOS on JSTOR.

Best,

?
--
Professor Dominik Wujastyk <http://ualberta.academia.edu/DominikWujastyk>
?,?

Singhmar Chair in Classical Indian Society and Polity
?,?

Department of History and Classics <http://historyandclassics.ualberta.ca/>
?,?
University of Alberta, Canada
?.?

South Asia at the U of A:

?sas.ualberta.ca?
??


On 23 August 2017 at 06:33, Lubin, Tim via INDOLOGY <
indology at list.indology.info> wrote:

> Colleagues,
>
> I very nearly wrote in with a similar suggestion about journals produced
> by scholarly institutions and societies.  I will only add that the JAOS has
> the added virtue that it assigns copyright to authors.  Many of these
> journals are openly available on the internet (via JSTOR or Pers?e, etc.)
> with only the last 3 or 5 years protected to encourage subscription.  For
> JAOS, the ?look back? is only 3 years.
>
> Best,
>
> Tim Lubin
>
> From: INDOLOGY <indology-bounces at list.indology.info> on behalf of
> INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info>
> Reply-To: Arlo Griffiths <arlogriffiths at hotmail.com>
> Date: Wednesday, August 23, 2017 at 3:14 AM
> To: INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info>
> Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] Starting a new academic journal
>
> Dear Dominik,
>
>
> There is of course an another 'old model' (perhaps older than the one
> involving for-profit enterprises against which you protest): that of an
> academic institution or learned society running its own scholarly journal
> and publishing it wholly independently or with only marginal involvement of
> any for-profit enterprise.
>
>
> Some of our best and most venerable journals belong to this category. To
> name but five, from five different countries:
>
>
> Annals of the Bhandarkar Oriental Research Institute
>
> Bulletin de l'?cole fran?aise d'Extr?me-Orient
>
> Journal of the American Oriental Society
>
> Wiener Zeitschrift f?r die Kunde S?dasiens
>
> Zeitschrift der Deutschen Morgenl?ndischen Gesellschaft
>
> I personally prefer to support and publish in these kinds of journals, and
> have wondered why colleagues feel the need to create new journals if
> excellent old ones already exist, outside of the for-profit publishing
> framework.
>
>
> Best wishes,
>
>
> Arlo Griffiths
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
> *From:* INDOLOGY <indology-bounces at list.indology.info> on behalf of
> Dominik Wujastyk via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info>
> *Sent:* Tuesday, August 22, 2017 8:23 PM
> *To:* Indology
> *Subject:* [INDOLOGY] Starting a new academic journal
>
> Dear colleagues,
>
> New academic journals spring up with surprising frequency.  Indeed, I
> launched one <http://hssa-journal.org> myself.  I am surprised, however,
> to see how many of the journals relevant to Indology still function on what
> I think of as the "old model," and are run as for-profit enterprises by
> commercial companies like Springer, Elsevier, Brill and others, whose first
> duty is not to the growth of knowledge, but to their shareholders.
>
> This problem of forked loyalty was starkly demonstrated this last week,
> when Cambridge University Press bowed to pressure from the Chinese
> Government, and voluntarily censored the content of its journal *China
> Quarterly,* withdrawing 300 articles that touched on topics sensitive to
> the PRC's communist government including the Tienanmen Square massacre and
> Tibet.  The reason given by the press was (in my words) that it was willing
> to sacrifice intellectual integrity for the purpose of continuing to sell
> the broad range of its products in the Chinese market.  The press has since changed
> its mind
> <http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2017/08/cambridge-university-press-posts-censored-articles-170822075543589.html>
> as a result of widespread incredulity and outrage from the academic
> establishment.  It might be uncharitable to view it this way, but one can't
> help thinking that CUP continues make decisions based on the bottom line,
> and has simply decided that it stands to lose more by alienating its
> domestic academic market than the Chinese one.
>
> There are now robust alternatives to the old model.  For many years, the Public
> Knowledge Project <https://pkp.sfu.ca/> at Canada's Simon Fraser
> University has been distributing excellent free software for running
> academic journals.  From the technical point of view, it is really quite
> easy to set up and run an online, Open Access journal.  If one needs
> technical help, the PKP can provide advice.
>
> There are also important initiatives such as the Open Library of the
> Humanities <https://www.openlibhums.org/> that provide support
> <https://www.openlibhums.org/site/academics/journal-applications-to-join-the-olh/>
> for new or existing Open Access journals.  The OLH is important for two
> reasons.  First, it has a robust business model.  Second, it is alive to
> new and emerging forms of academic publishing, including the very
> interesting systems like archivX, PLOS, PeerJ, and JSTOR that have
> developed in scientific publishing. OLH is particularly inspired by PLOS
> <https://www.plos.org/>, and can partly be seen as a project to give
> humanistic scholars the kinds of benefit already enjoyed by scientists.
>
> If you are thinking of  launching a new journal, please look at projects
> like OLH.  They might provide everything you need, including adherence to
> the OA principles and the business models of the future.
>
> If you want to publish an article, think first of the Open Access journals
> might give you the peer-review, impact and quality that you are looking
> for.  The DOAJ <http://doaj.org> is an index of OA journals, and offers a
> lot of discussion and documentation about all the issues I raise here.
>
> Best wishes,
> Dominik
>
>
> --
> Professor Dominik Wujastyk <http://ualberta.academia.edu/DominikWujastyk>
> ,
>
> Singhmar Chair in Classical Indian Society and Polity
> ,
>
> Department of History and Classics
> <http://historyandclassics.ualberta.ca/>
> ,
> University of Alberta, Canada
> .
>
> South Asia at the U of A:
>
> sas.ualberta.ca
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
> committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
> unsubscribe)
>


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From hr at ivs.edu  Wed Aug 23 22:56:11 2017
From: hr at ivs.edu (HR)
Date: Wed, 23 Aug 17 15:56:11 -0700
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Gita 13.6
In-Reply-To: <CAJGj9ea-wfizV-fd8QD=O32G1KR3M_7Y5qoF8wRq0kjdBYm5hw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1503529022-1398782.19013883.fv7NMuCqu007597@rs153.luxsci.com>

Thank you, Nagaraj. I am still trying to grasp more clearly the sense of avyakta in verses like 8.18 ? 
avyakt?d vyaktayah sarv?? prabhavanty ahar-?game

How would you define the avyakta as the source of manifest individuals (vyaktaya?)?

Howard

> On Aug 22, 2017, at 7:17 PM, Nagaraj Paturi <nagarajpaturi at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Dear HR-ji,
> 
> noun not adjective.
> 
> Yes, that is what I was about to point out.
> 
> In 13.6, it is a part of categories into which the "knowable field" as opposed to the "field - knower"  is  divided. 
> 
> ????????????????? ???????????????? ? ?
> 
> ??????????? ?????? ? ?~??? ??????????????? ? 13\-6? 
> 
> Similar is its use in 8-18, 8-20
> 
> ?????????? ???????? ?????? ???????????????? ?
> 
> ??????????? ?????????? ??????????????????? ? 8\-18?
> 
> 
> 
> ????????????? ???? ????? ???????? ???????????????? ?
> 
> 
> ?? ? ??????? ?????? ???????? ? ???????? ? 8\-20?
> 
> 
> 
> The words element and dimension used by you are very apt. 
> 
> 
> 
> Interestingly it is both a dimension and element. 
> 
> 
> 
> Just for analogy, space and time in contemporary Physics are both dimensions and components. (Post Einstein, they are components of a continuum.)
> 
> 
> 
> mah?bh?t?ni, indriyagoocar?h are part of the vyakta component. ahank?rah, buddhih, indriy??i are parts of neither parts of the vyakta nor of the avykta. 
> 
> 
> 
> This vyakta, avyakta division has its foundations right from the rigvedic expressions such as 
> 
> 
> 
> p?d?sya vi?v?bh?t?ni trip?dasy?mr?tam divi. 
> 
> 
> 
> v?d?ham?tam puru?am mah?ntam ?dityavar?am tamasah parast?t. 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>  
> 
> On Wed, Aug 23, 2017 at 6:38 AM, HR via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info <mailto:indology at list.indology.info>> wrote:
> Thank you. Actually, avyakta is often used as a straightforward adjective, as in Bg 2.25. My interest here is when avyakta is used as a noun, as in Bg 12.1, or even more to the point, 8.18,20.
> 
> Howard
> 
>> On Aug 22, 2017, at 4:52 AM, alakendu das <mailmealakendudas at rediffmail.com <mailto:mailmealakendudas at rediffmail.com>> wrote:
>> 
>> Scholar, 
>>                  The best way to comprehend Avykta or "The unmanifested"is available in Gita itself.2.26(or may be 27,)says- A chheddyam,Adahhyam,Akleddya,Ashoshya eba cha ,Nitya Sarvagata Sthanu Chalayam ,Sanatana
>> ........Avyaktayam,Achintyam,Avikaryam ucchyate.The concept of Avyakta in our Philosophy is dimensionless,although it
>> is the sole EXISTENCE. The fact that it is dimensionless, can be accessed from this Upanishadic qoute- Ananu,Asthulam,Arhasham,A
>> ..dirgham....etc.," Avyaktam' is the Sumnum Bonum of our Vedanta Philosophy.
>>                      Alakendu Ds
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Sent from RediffmailNG on Android
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> From: HR via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info <mailto:indology at list.indology.info>>
>> Sent: Tue, 22 Aug 2017 08:23:45 GMT+0530
>> To: Indology List <indology at list.indology.info <mailto:indology at list.indology.info>>
>> Subject: [INDOLOGY] Gita 13.6
>> 
>> Dear Scholars,
>> 
>>    I would appreciate insights on how we might understand the use of ?avyakta,? the ?unmanifest? in the Gita 13.6 and elsewhere as a type of element or dimension of this world.
>> 
>> Thanks,
>> Howard
>> _______________________________________________
>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info <mailto:INDOLOGY at list.indology.info>
>> indology-owner at list.indology.info <mailto:indology-owner at list.indology.info> (messages to the list's managing committee)
>> http://listinfo.indology.info <http://listinfo.indology.info/> (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe)
>> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info <mailto:INDOLOGY at list.indology.info>
> indology-owner at list.indology.info <mailto:indology-owner at list.indology.info> (messages to the list's managing committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info <http://listinfo.indology.info/> (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe)
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Nagaraj Paturi
>  
> Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.
> 
> 
> BoS, MIT School of Vedic Sciences, Pune, Maharashtra
> 
> BoS, Chinmaya Vishwavidyapeeth, Veliyanad, Kerala
> 
> Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies
>  
> FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of  Liberal Education,
>  
> (Pune, Maharashtra, INDIA )
>  
>  
>  



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From LubinT at wlu.edu  Thu Aug 24 01:47:32 2017
From: LubinT at wlu.edu (Lubin, Tim)
Date: Thu, 24 Aug 17 01:47:32 +0000
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Starting a new academic journal
In-Reply-To: <CAKdt-Cf7fK7+30iEos2Uro3kqjFLH9R3LQ_YHeyv09_0vhi0cw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <D5C3A10D.46563%lubint@wlu.edu>

True enough.  But JAOS authors do hold copyright, which facilitates legal dissemination beyond the paywall.  Besides which, AOS membership is within reach of almost anyone motivated to join, because of its progressive dues structure: https://www.americanorientalsociety.org/membership/dues-payment/
Any category of membership includes full digital access to the journal (and an extra $20 will add the print version to the discounted categories).  Some new magazines cost more than a year of JAOS.  In any case, the AOS (and other venues that Arlo mentioned) are not profit-driven, and are not part of the scholarly-publication problem.  They are just covering their costs.

I say this not to discourage the development fully open-access publications, which I in fact encourage ? I myself am a section editor for religious studies at OLH.  But the fact is, submissions are few and my efforts to drum up participation have not borne fruit.  Several more established journals have come under OLH?s wing, but their home-grown ?megajournal" format remains underused.  Only six ?special collections? (thematic issues) have appeared since it was introduced.

Best,
Tim

From: Dominik Wujastyk <wujastyk at gmail.com<mailto:wujastyk at gmail.com>>
Date: Wednesday, August 23, 2017 at 4:52 PM
To: Tim Lubin <lubint at wlu.edu<mailto:lubint at wlu.edu>>
Cc: Arlo Griffiths <arlogriffiths at hotmail.com<mailto:arlogriffiths at hotmail.com>>, INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info<mailto:indology at list.indology.info>>
Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] Starting a new academic journal

Since it takes a couple of years for an article to go from submission to publication in JAOS, the three-year paywall means that JSTOR readers are reading five-year-old research.  Older, if you factor-in the writing and research period before submission.

Plus, JSTOR membership itself isn't free.   Many of us don't notice this, but a pandit in Thanjavur, for example, can't read the JAOS on JSTOR.

Best,

?
--
Professor Dominik Wujastyk<http://ualberta.academia.edu/DominikWujastyk>
?,?

Singhmar Chair in Classical Indian Society and Polity
?,?

Department of History and Classics<http://historyandclassics.ualberta.ca/>
?,?
University of Alberta, Canada
?.?

South Asia at the U of A:

?sas.ualberta.ca?<http://sas.ualberta.ca/>
??


On 23 August 2017 at 06:33, Lubin, Tim via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info<mailto:indology at list.indology.info>> wrote:
Colleagues,

I very nearly wrote in with a similar suggestion about journals produced by scholarly institutions and societies.  I will only add that the JAOS has the added virtue that it assigns copyright to authors.  Many of these journals are openly available on the internet (via JSTOR or Pers?e, etc.) with only the last 3 or 5 years protected to encourage subscription.  For JAOS, the ?look back? is only 3 years.

Best,

Tim Lubin

From: INDOLOGY <indology-bounces at list.indology.info<mailto:indology-bounces at list.indology.info>> on behalf of INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info<mailto:indology at list.indology.info>>
Reply-To: Arlo Griffiths <arlogriffiths at hotmail.com<mailto:arlogriffiths at hotmail.com>>
Date: Wednesday, August 23, 2017 at 3:14 AM
To: INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info<mailto:indology at list.indology.info>>
Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] Starting a new academic journal


Dear Dominik,


There is of course an another 'old model' (perhaps older than the one involving for-profit enterprises against which you protest): that of an academic institution or learned society running its own scholarly journal and publishing it wholly independently or with only marginal involvement of any for-profit enterprise.


Some of our best and most venerable journals belong to this category. To name but five, from five different countries:


Annals of the Bhandarkar Oriental Research Institute

Bulletin de l'?cole fran?aise d'Extr?me-Orient

Journal of the American Oriental Society

Wiener Zeitschrift f?r die Kunde S?dasiens

Zeitschrift der Deutschen Morgenl?ndischen Gesellschaft


I personally prefer to support and publish in these kinds of journals, and have wondered why colleagues feel the need to create new journals if excellent old ones already exist, outside of the for-profit publishing framework.


Best wishes,


Arlo Griffiths



________________________________
From: INDOLOGY <indology-bounces at list.indology.info<mailto:indology-bounces at list.indology.info>> on behalf of Dominik Wujastyk via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info<mailto:indology at list.indology.info>>
Sent: Tuesday, August 22, 2017 8:23 PM
To: Indology
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Starting a new academic journal

Dear colleagues,

New academic journals spring up with surprising frequency.  Indeed, I launched one<http://hssa-journal.org> myself.  I am surprised, however, to see how many of the journals relevant to Indology still function on what I think of as the "old model," and are run as for-profit enterprises by commercial companies like Springer, Elsevier, Brill and others, whose first duty is not to the growth of knowledge, but to their shareholders.

This problem of forked loyalty was starkly demonstrated this last week, when Cambridge University Press bowed to pressure from the Chinese Government, and voluntarily censored the content of its journal China Quarterly, withdrawing 300 articles that touched on topics sensitive to the PRC's communist government including the Tienanmen Square massacre and Tibet.  The reason given by the press was (in my words) that it was willing to sacrifice intellectual integrity for the purpose of continuing to sell the broad range of its products in the Chinese market.  The press has since changed its mind<http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2017/08/cambridge-university-press-posts-censored-articles-170822075543589.html> as a result of widespread incredulity and outrage from the academic establishment.  It might be uncharitable to view it this way, but one can't help thinking that CUP continues make decisions based on the bottom line, and has simply decided that it stands to lose more by alienating its domestic academic market than the Chinese one.

There are now robust alternatives to the old model.  For many years, the Public Knowledge Project<https://pkp.sfu.ca/> at Canada's Simon Fraser University has been distributing excellent free software for running academic journals.  From the technical point of view, it is really quite easy to set up and run an online, Open Access journal.  If one needs technical help, the PKP can provide advice.

There are also important initiatives such as the Open Library of the Humanities<https://www.openlibhums.org/> that provide support<https://www.openlibhums.org/site/academics/journal-applications-to-join-the-olh/> for new or existing Open Access journals.  The OLH is important for two reasons.  First, it has a robust business model.  Second, it is alive to new and emerging forms of academic publishing, including the very interesting systems like archivX, PLOS, PeerJ, and JSTOR that have developed in scientific publishing. OLH is particularly inspired by PLOS<https://www.plos.org/>, and can partly be seen as a project to give humanistic scholars the kinds of benefit already enjoyed by scientists.

If you are thinking of  launching a new journal, please look at projects like OLH.  They might provide everything you need, including adherence to the OA principles and the business models of the future.

If you want to publish an article, think first of the Open Access journals might give you the peer-review, impact and quality that you are looking for.  The DOAJ<http://doaj.org> is an index of OA journals, and offers a lot of discussion and documentation about all the issues I raise here.

Best wishes,
Dominik


--
Professor Dominik Wujastyk<http://ualberta.academia.edu/DominikWujastyk>
,

Singhmar Chair in Classical Indian Society and Polity
,

Department of History and Classics<http://historyandclassics.ualberta.ca/>
,
University of Alberta, Canada
.

South Asia at the U of A:

sas.ualberta.ca<http://sas.ualberta.ca/>


_______________________________________________
INDOLOGY mailing list
INDOLOGY at list.indology.info<mailto:INDOLOGY at list.indology.info>
indology-owner at list.indology.info<mailto:indology-owner at list.indology.info> (messages to the list's managing committee)
http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe)



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From nagarajpaturi at gmail.com  Thu Aug 24 03:17:42 2017
From: nagarajpaturi at gmail.com (Nagaraj Paturi)
Date: Thu, 24 Aug 17 08:47:42 +0530
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Gita 13.6
In-Reply-To: <1503529022-1398782.19013883.fv7NMuCqu007597@rs153.luxsci.com>
Message-ID: <CAJGj9eZhNGUXC__FnHadjkaAsxtKDRNcraeZ3NeJe_AvLuhN7w@mail.gmail.com>

Dear HR-ji,

The two axiomatic principles of Bh G (Bh G time 'Hinduism' ) are :

n?sat? vidyat? bh?vah n?bh?v? vidyat? satah. Bh G 2-16 (Existence does not
come from non-existence and from existence non-existence does not come;
i.e.,Nothing is created from nothing. Everything is created from something
already in existence..Anything already in existence does not get destroyed)

and

(in fact as a corollary of this),

Time/creation is cyclic.

Based on these two , all the vyakta does not get destroyed at the end of a
creation /time cycle. Then what happens to the vyakta at that stage? It
withdraws into its avyakta form (because n?bh?v? vidyat? satah) . What
happens later? The new cycle of time/creation begins. What does that mean?
All that is withdrawn into avyakta comes back into vyakta form. (because
n?sat? vidyat? bh?vah)



On Thu, Aug 24, 2017 at 4:26 AM, HR via INDOLOGY <
indology at list.indology.info> wrote:

> Thank you, Nagaraj. I am still trying to grasp more clearly the sense of
> avyakta in verses like 8.18 ?
> avyakt?d vyaktayah sarv?? prabhavanty ahar-?game
>
> How would you define the avyakta as the source of manifest individuals
> (vyaktaya?)?
>
> Howard
>
> On Aug 22, 2017, at 7:17 PM, Nagaraj Paturi <nagarajpaturi at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> Dear HR-ji,
>
> noun not adjective.
>
> Yes, that is what I was about to point out.
>
> In 13.6, it is a part of categories into which the "knowable field" as
> opposed to the "field - knower"  is  divided.
>
> ????????????????? ???????????????? ? ?
> ??????????? ?????? ? ?~??? ??????????????? ? 13\-6?
>
> Similar is its use in 8-18, 8-20
>
> ?????????? ???????? ?????? ???????????????? ?
>
> ??????????? ?????????? ??????????????????? ? 8\-18?
>
>
> ????????????? ???? ????? ???????? ???????????????? ?
>
> ?? ? ??????? ?????? ???????? ? ???????? ? 8\-20?
>
>
> The words element and dimension used by you are very apt.
>
>
> Interestingly it is both a dimension and element.
>
>
> Just for analogy, space and time in contemporary Physics are both
> dimensions and components. (Post Einstein, they are components of a
> continuum.)
>
>
> mah?bh?t?ni, indriyagoocar?h are part of the vyakta component. ahank?rah,
> buddhih, indriy??i are parts of neither parts of the vyakta nor of the
> avykta.
>
>
> This vyakta, avyakta division has its foundations right from the rigvedic
> expressions such as
>
>
> p?d?sya vi?v?bh?t?ni trip?dasy?mr?tam divi.
>
>
> v?d?ham?tam puru?am mah?ntam ?dityavar?am tamasah parast?t.
>
>
>
>
>
> On Wed, Aug 23, 2017 at 6:38 AM, HR via INDOLOGY <
> indology at list.indology.info> wrote:
>
>> Thank you. Actually, avyakta is often used as a straightforward
>> adjective, as in Bg 2.25. My interest here is when avyakta is used as a
>> noun, as in Bg 12.1, or even more to the point, 8.18,20.
>>
>> Howard
>>
>> On Aug 22, 2017, at 4:52 AM, alakendu das <mailmealakendudas at rediffmail.
>> com> wrote:
>>
>> Scholar,
>>                  The best way to comprehend Avykta or "The
>> unmanifested"is available in Gita itself.2.26(or may be 27,)says- A
>> chheddyam,Adahhyam,Akleddya,Ashoshya eba cha ,Nitya Sarvagata Sthanu
>> Chalayam ,Sanatana
>> ........Avyaktayam,Achintyam,Avikaryam ucchyate.The concept of Avyakta
>> in our Philosophy is dimensionless,although it
>> is the sole EXISTENCE. The fact that it is dimensionless, can be accessed
>> from this Upanishadic qoute- Ananu,Asthulam,Arhasham,A
>> ..dirgham....etc.," Avyaktam' is the Sumnum Bonum of our Vedanta
>> Philosophy.
>>                      Alakendu Ds
>>
>>
>>
>> Sent from RediffmailNG on Android
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> From: HR via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info>
>> Sent: Tue, 22 Aug 2017 08:23:45 GMT+0530
>> To: Indology List <indology at list.indology.info>
>> Subject: [INDOLOGY] Gita 13.6
>>
>> Dear Scholars,
>>
>>    I would appreciate insights on how we might understand the use of
>> ?avyakta,? the ?unmanifest? in the Gita 13.6 and elsewhere as a type of
>> element or dimension of this world.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Howard
>> _______________________________________________
>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
>> committee)
>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
>> unsubscribe)
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
>> committee)
>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
>> unsubscribe)
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Nagaraj Paturi
>
> Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.
>
>
> BoS, MIT School of Vedic Sciences, Pune, Maharashtra
>
> BoS, Chinmaya Vishwavidyapeeth, Veliyanad, Kerala
>
> Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies
>
> FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of  Liberal Education,
>
> (Pune, Maharashtra, INDIA )
>
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
> committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
> unsubscribe)
>



-- 
Nagaraj Paturi

Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.


BoS, MIT School of Vedic Sciences, Pune, Maharashtra

BoS, Chinmaya Vishwavidyapeeth, Veliyanad, Kerala

Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies

FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of  Liberal Education,

(Pune, Maharashtra, INDIA )


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From wujastyk at gmail.com  Thu Aug 24 04:05:54 2017
From: wujastyk at gmail.com (Dominik Wujastyk)
Date: Wed, 23 Aug 17 22:05:54 -0600
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Starting a new academic journal
In-Reply-To: <D5C3A10D.46563%lubint@wlu.edu>
Message-ID: <CAKdt-CeLuJ3uWyt2XP0_GCMbTb8h6ubQHcdMMmn9HnTcYVq0XA@mail.gmail.com>

Copyright. No, that's wrong, Tim.  Owning copyright is one thing, but the
JAOS and other journals will routinely give each author a license form to
sign, and the terms of that license typically take away the author's right
to disseminate their work freely.  Owning copyright only "works" if you
don't sign away your rights.   I retained copyright of my *Roots of
Ayurveda* book with Penguin Delhi, but the contract I signed with them
basically took away all my rights, leaving my copyright ownership
meaningless.  And I've seen many licensing agreements from journal
publishers that do exactly this too.

The fees structure of the AOS membership is enlightened indeed, ... for
people like you and me.  But for almost all classical scholars in India
even the minimum fee, Rs 3000, is a very large sum indeed, and remember
that most of them will only be professionally interested in one or two
articles per issue and will never be able to attend AOS meetings.  So it's
Rs3000 for, say three or four articles in a year.  That puts the journal
completely out of reach.  And they can't read it on JSTOR either.

But none of this meets the fundamental objection about why a reader should
pay to read the results of research funded by publicly-funded institutions.



It's regrettable that OLH has not attracted the attention it deserves, and
I warmly applaud your involvement.  But as a project, it is well-conceived,
I believe, and the model it is emulating, PLOS, has been a roaring success
in the sciences.  So it may be a matter of time and publicity.  Did I say
publicity?

Best,
Dominik



?
--
Professor Dominik Wujastyk <http://ualberta.academia.edu/DominikWujastyk>
?,?

Singhmar Chair in Classical Indian Society and Polity
?,?

Department of History and Classics <http://historyandclassics.ualberta.ca/>
?,?
University of Alberta, Canada
?.?

South Asia at the U of A:

?sas.ualberta.ca?
??


On 23 August 2017 at 19:47, Lubin, Tim <LubinT at wlu.edu> wrote:

> True enough.  But JAOS authors do hold copyright, which facilitates legal
> dissemination beyond the paywall.  Besides which, AOS membership is within
> reach of almost anyone motivated to join, because of its progressive dues
> structure: https://www.americanorientalsociety.org/membership/dues-payment/
>
> Any category of membership includes full digital access to the journal
> (and an extra $20 will add the print version to the discounted
> categories).  Some new magazines cost more than a year of JAOS.  In any
> case, the AOS (and other venues that Arlo mentioned) are not profit-driven,
> and are not part of the scholarly-publication problem.  They are just
> covering their costs.
>
> I say this not to discourage the development fully open-access
> publications, which I in fact encourage ? I myself am a section editor for
> religious studies at OLH.  But the fact is, submissions are few and my
> efforts to drum up participation have not borne fruit.  Several more
> established journals have come under OLH?s wing, but their home-grown
> ?megajournal" format remains underused.  Only six ?special collections?
> (thematic issues) have appeared since it was introduced.
>
> Best,
> Tim
>
> From: Dominik Wujastyk <wujastyk at gmail.com>
> Date: Wednesday, August 23, 2017 at 4:52 PM
> To: Tim Lubin <lubint at wlu.edu>
> Cc: Arlo Griffiths <arlogriffiths at hotmail.com>, INDOLOGY <
> indology at list.indology.info>
>
> Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] Starting a new academic journal
>
> Since it takes a couple of years for an article to go from submission to
> publication in JAOS, the three-year paywall means that JSTOR readers are
> reading five-year-old research.  Older, if you factor-in the writing and
> research period before submission.
>
> Plus, JSTOR membership itself isn't free.   Many of us don't notice this,
> but a pandit in Thanjavur, for example, can't read the JAOS on JSTOR.
>
> Best,
>
> ?
> --
> Professor Dominik Wujastyk <http://ualberta.academia.edu/DominikWujastyk>
> ?,?
>
> Singhmar Chair in Classical Indian Society and Polity
> ?,?
>
> Department of History and Classics
> <http://historyandclassics.ualberta.ca/>
> ?,?
> University of Alberta, Canada
> ?.?
>
> South Asia at the U of A:
>
> ?sas.ualberta.ca?
> ??
>
>
> On 23 August 2017 at 06:33, Lubin, Tim via INDOLOGY <
> indology at list.indology.info> wrote:
>
>> Colleagues,
>>
>> I very nearly wrote in with a similar suggestion about journals produced
>> by scholarly institutions and societies.  I will only add that the JAOS has
>> the added virtue that it assigns copyright to authors.  Many of these
>> journals are openly available on the internet (via JSTOR or Pers?e, etc.)
>> with only the last 3 or 5 years protected to encourage subscription.  For
>> JAOS, the ?look back? is only 3 years.
>>
>> Best,
>>
>> Tim Lubin
>>
>> From: INDOLOGY <indology-bounces at list.indology.info> on behalf of
>> INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info>
>> Reply-To: Arlo Griffiths <arlogriffiths at hotmail.com>
>> Date: Wednesday, August 23, 2017 at 3:14 AM
>> To: INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info>
>> Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] Starting a new academic journal
>>
>> Dear Dominik,
>>
>>
>> There is of course an another 'old model' (perhaps older than the one
>> involving for-profit enterprises against which you protest): that of an
>> academic institution or learned society running its own scholarly journal
>> and publishing it wholly independently or with only marginal involvement of
>> any for-profit enterprise.
>>
>>
>> Some of our best and most venerable journals belong to this category. To
>> name but five, from five different countries:
>>
>>
>> Annals of the Bhandarkar Oriental Research Institute
>>
>> Bulletin de l'?cole fran?aise d'Extr?me-Orient
>>
>> Journal of the American Oriental Society
>>
>> Wiener Zeitschrift f?r die Kunde S?dasiens
>>
>> Zeitschrift der Deutschen Morgenl?ndischen Gesellschaft
>>
>> I personally prefer to support and publish in these kinds of journals,
>> and have wondered why colleagues feel the need to create new journals if
>> excellent old ones already exist, outside of the for-profit publishing
>> framework.
>>
>>
>> Best wishes,
>>
>>
>> Arlo Griffiths
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>> *From:* INDOLOGY <indology-bounces at list.indology.info> on behalf of
>> Dominik Wujastyk via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info>
>> *Sent:* Tuesday, August 22, 2017 8:23 PM
>> *To:* Indology
>> *Subject:* [INDOLOGY] Starting a new academic journal
>>
>> Dear colleagues,
>>
>> New academic journals spring up with surprising frequency.  Indeed, I
>> launched one <http://hssa-journal.org> myself.  I am surprised, however,
>> to see how many of the journals relevant to Indology still function on what
>> I think of as the "old model," and are run as for-profit enterprises by
>> commercial companies like Springer, Elsevier, Brill and others, whose first
>> duty is not to the growth of knowledge, but to their shareholders.
>>
>> This problem of forked loyalty was starkly demonstrated this last week,
>> when Cambridge University Press bowed to pressure from the Chinese
>> Government, and voluntarily censored the content of its journal *China
>> Quarterly,* withdrawing 300 articles that touched on topics sensitive to
>> the PRC's communist government including the Tienanmen Square massacre and
>> Tibet.  The reason given by the press was (in my words) that it was willing
>> to sacrifice intellectual integrity for the purpose of continuing to sell
>> the broad range of its products in the Chinese market.  The press has since changed
>> its mind
>> <http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2017/08/cambridge-university-press-posts-censored-articles-170822075543589.html>
>> as a result of widespread incredulity and outrage from the academic
>> establishment.  It might be uncharitable to view it this way, but one can't
>> help thinking that CUP continues make decisions based on the bottom line,
>> and has simply decided that it stands to lose more by alienating its
>> domestic academic market than the Chinese one.
>>
>> There are now robust alternatives to the old model.  For many years, the Public
>> Knowledge Project <https://pkp.sfu.ca/> at Canada's Simon Fraser
>> University has been distributing excellent free software for running
>> academic journals.  From the technical point of view, it is really quite
>> easy to set up and run an online, Open Access journal.  If one needs
>> technical help, the PKP can provide advice.
>>
>> There are also important initiatives such as the Open Library of the
>> Humanities <https://www.openlibhums.org/> that provide support
>> <https://www.openlibhums.org/site/academics/journal-applications-to-join-the-olh/>
>> for new or existing Open Access journals.  The OLH is important for two
>> reasons.  First, it has a robust business model.  Second, it is alive to
>> new and emerging forms of academic publishing, including the very
>> interesting systems like archivX, PLOS, PeerJ, and JSTOR that have
>> developed in scientific publishing. OLH is particularly inspired by PLOS
>> <https://www.plos.org/>, and can partly be seen as a project to give
>> humanistic scholars the kinds of benefit already enjoyed by scientists.
>>
>> If you are thinking of  launching a new journal, please look at projects
>> like OLH.  They might provide everything you need, including adherence to
>> the OA principles and the business models of the future.
>>
>> If you want to publish an article, think first of the Open Access
>> journals might give you the peer-review, impact and quality that you are
>> looking for.  The DOAJ <http://doaj.org> is an index of OA journals, and
>> offers a lot of discussion and documentation about all the issues I raise
>> here.
>>
>> Best wishes,
>> Dominik
>>
>>
>> --
>> Professor Dominik Wujastyk <http://ualberta.academia.edu/DominikWujastyk>
>> ,
>>
>> Singhmar Chair in Classical Indian Society and Polity
>> ,
>>
>> Department of History and Classics
>> <http://historyandclassics.ualberta.ca/>
>> ,
>> University of Alberta, Canada
>> .
>>
>> South Asia at the U of A:
>>
>> sas.ualberta.ca
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
>> committee)
>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
>> unsubscribe)
>>
>
>


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From mailmealakendudas at rediffmail.com  Thu Aug 24 09:24:44 2017
From: mailmealakendudas at rediffmail.com (alakendu das)
Date: Thu, 24 Aug 17 09:24:44 +0000
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Gita 13.6
In-Reply-To: <CAJGj9eZhNGUXC__FnHadjkaAsxtKDRNcraeZ3NeJe_AvLuhN7w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1503544760.S.28798.2288.f4-234-198.1503566684.32269@webmail.rediffmail.com>





 Dr.Nagraj Paturi,

                   This cycle of Avyakta/Vyakta is somewhat akin to what Swamiji referred as 

Involution/Evolution, and, according to him, every Involution preceeds an Evolution.





                                              ALAKENDU DAS.

                  


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From e.demichelis at ymail.com  Thu Aug 24 10:22:39 2017
From: e.demichelis at ymail.com (Elizabeth De Michelis)
Date: Thu, 24 Aug 17 10:22:39 +0000
Subject: =?utf-8?Q?[INDOLOGY]_e-copy_of_Rajendralala_MITRA's_=5FYoga_Aphorisms_of_Pata=C3=B1jali=5F?=
In-Reply-To: <169205713.1551859.1503570159442.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <169205713.1551859.1503570159442@mail.yahoo.com>

Dear Colleagues,
a pdf of this book is available on archive.org, but I for one could not find it by looking for it in the normal way. However, a link to its pdf came up doing a search on duckduckgo.com. 
If you have had the same problem, or simply if you want a pdf of the book, here is the url to obtain it:
https://archive.org/download/Bibliotheca_Indica_Series/YogaAphorismsOfPatanjaliWithBhojaVritti-RlMitra1881bis.pdf

With best regards,
E De Michelistinyurl.com/EDM-profile







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From nagarajpaturi at gmail.com  Thu Aug 24 10:53:09 2017
From: nagarajpaturi at gmail.com (Nagaraj Paturi)
Date: Thu, 24 Aug 17 16:23:09 +0530
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Gita 13.6
In-Reply-To: <CAJGj9eZhNGUXC__FnHadjkaAsxtKDRNcraeZ3NeJe_AvLuhN7w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAJGj9ebmFGTbEc-dGHdLNwpQD7hY6oJCDzV-o0=gtY8mg_6qBA@mail.gmail.com>

Dear HR-ji,

If your question is, " Are the 'Avyakta' of 13.6 and 'Avyakta' of  8.18.
one and the same?",

then the answer is 'No' and 'Yes'

No, because the 'avyakta' of 13.6 is the unmanifest aspect /element of the
creation during the vyakta phase of the creation.

Whereas the  'avyakta' in 8.18 is the avyakta phase of the creation.

Yes, because in 8.18 too 'avyakta is an aspect/dimension. In the avyakta
phase, only avyakta aspect/dimension remains. All elements like Mahabhutani
of 13.6, which exist in a vyakta aspect/dimension of them in the vyakta
phase , change into their avyakta aspect/dimension during the avyakta phase.



On Thu, Aug 24, 2017 at 8:47 AM, Nagaraj Paturi <nagarajpaturi at gmail.com>
wrote:

> Dear HR-ji,
>
> The two axiomatic principles of Bh G (Bh G time 'Hinduism' ) are :
>
> n?sat? vidyat? bh?vah n?bh?v? vidyat? satah. Bh G 2-16 (Existence does not
> come from non-existence and from existence non-existence does not come;
> i.e.,Nothing is created from nothing. Everything is created from something
> already in existence..Anything already in existence does not get destroyed)
>
> and
>
> (in fact as a corollary of this),
>
> Time/creation is cyclic.
>
> Based on these two , all the vyakta does not get destroyed at the end of a
> creation /time cycle. Then what happens to the vyakta at that stage? It
> withdraws into its avyakta form (because n?bh?v? vidyat? satah) . What
> happens later? The new cycle of time/creation begins. What does that mean?
> All that is withdrawn into avyakta comes back into vyakta form. (because
> n?sat? vidyat? bh?vah)
>
>
>
> On Thu, Aug 24, 2017 at 4:26 AM, HR via INDOLOGY <
> indology at list.indology.info> wrote:
>
>> Thank you, Nagaraj. I am still trying to grasp more clearly the sense of
>> avyakta in verses like 8.18 ?
>> avyakt?d vyaktayah sarv?? prabhavanty ahar-?game
>>
>> How would you define the avyakta as the source of manifest individuals
>> (vyaktaya?)?
>>
>> Howard
>>
>> On Aug 22, 2017, at 7:17 PM, Nagaraj Paturi <nagarajpaturi at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> Dear HR-ji,
>>
>> noun not adjective.
>>
>> Yes, that is what I was about to point out.
>>
>> In 13.6, it is a part of categories into which the "knowable field" as
>> opposed to the "field - knower"  is  divided.
>>
>> ????????????????? ???????????????? ? ?
>> ??????????? ?????? ? ?~??? ??????????????? ? 13\-6?
>>
>> Similar is its use in 8-18, 8-20
>>
>> ?????????? ???????? ?????? ???????????????? ?
>>
>> ??????????? ?????????? ??????????????????? ? 8\-18?
>>
>>
>> ????????????? ???? ????? ???????? ???????????????? ?
>>
>> ?? ? ??????? ?????? ???????? ? ???????? ? 8\-20?
>>
>>
>> The words element and dimension used by you are very apt.
>>
>>
>> Interestingly it is both a dimension and element.
>>
>>
>> Just for analogy, space and time in contemporary Physics are both
>> dimensions and components. (Post Einstein, they are components of a
>> continuum.)
>>
>>
>> mah?bh?t?ni, indriyagoocar?h are part of the vyakta component. ahank?rah,
>> buddhih, indriy??i are parts of neither parts of the vyakta nor of the
>> avykta.
>>
>>
>> This vyakta, avyakta division has its foundations right from the rigvedic
>> expressions such as
>>
>>
>> p?d?sya vi?v?bh?t?ni trip?dasy?mr?tam divi.
>>
>>
>> v?d?ham?tam puru?am mah?ntam ?dityavar?am tamasah parast?t.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Aug 23, 2017 at 6:38 AM, HR via INDOLOGY <
>> indology at list.indology.info> wrote:
>>
>>> Thank you. Actually, avyakta is often used as a straightforward
>>> adjective, as in Bg 2.25. My interest here is when avyakta is used as a
>>> noun, as in Bg 12.1, or even more to the point, 8.18,20.
>>>
>>> Howard
>>>
>>> On Aug 22, 2017, at 4:52 AM, alakendu das <mailmealakendudas at rediffmail.
>>> com> wrote:
>>>
>>> Scholar,
>>>                  The best way to comprehend Avykta or "The
>>> unmanifested"is available in Gita itself.2.26(or may be 27,)says- A
>>> chheddyam,Adahhyam,Akleddya,Ashoshya eba cha ,Nitya Sarvagata Sthanu
>>> Chalayam ,Sanatana
>>> ........Avyaktayam,Achintyam,Avikaryam ucchyate.The concept of Avyakta
>>> in our Philosophy is dimensionless,although it
>>> is the sole EXISTENCE. The fact that it is dimensionless, can be
>>> accessed from this Upanishadic qoute- Ananu,Asthulam,Arhasham,A
>>> ..dirgham....etc.," Avyaktam' is the Sumnum Bonum of our Vedanta
>>> Philosophy.
>>>                      Alakendu Ds
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Sent from RediffmailNG on Android
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> From: HR via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info>
>>> Sent: Tue, 22 Aug 2017 08:23:45 GMT+0530
>>> To: Indology List <indology at list.indology.info>
>>> Subject: [INDOLOGY] Gita 13.6
>>>
>>> Dear Scholars,
>>>
>>>    I would appreciate insights on how we might understand the use of
>>> ?avyakta,? the ?unmanifest? in the Gita 13.6 and elsewhere as a type of
>>> element or dimension of this world.
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>> Howard
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
>>> committee)
>>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options
>>> or unsubscribe)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
>>> committee)
>>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options
>>> or unsubscribe)
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Nagaraj Paturi
>>
>> Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.
>>
>>
>> BoS, MIT School of Vedic Sciences, Pune, Maharashtra
>>
>> BoS, Chinmaya Vishwavidyapeeth, Veliyanad, Kerala
>>
>> Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies
>>
>> FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of  Liberal Education,
>>
>> (Pune, Maharashtra, INDIA )
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
>> committee)
>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
>> unsubscribe)
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Nagaraj Paturi
>
> Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.
>
>
> BoS, MIT School of Vedic Sciences, Pune, Maharashtra
>
> BoS, Chinmaya Vishwavidyapeeth, Veliyanad, Kerala
>
> Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies
>
> FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of  Liberal Education,
>
> (Pune, Maharashtra, INDIA )
>
>
>
>



-- 
Nagaraj Paturi

Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.


BoS, MIT School of Vedic Sciences, Pune, Maharashtra

BoS, Chinmaya Vishwavidyapeeth, Veliyanad, Kerala

Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies

FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of  Liberal Education,

(Pune, Maharashtra, INDIA )


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From nagarajpaturi at gmail.com  Thu Aug 24 12:23:53 2017
From: nagarajpaturi at gmail.com (Nagaraj Paturi)
Date: Thu, 24 Aug 17 17:53:53 +0530
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Gita 13.6
In-Reply-To: <1503544760.S.28798.2288.f4-234-198.1503566684.32269@webmail.rediffmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAJGj9eZR8aF0YCkSKJnb7mKiY2B1FU2o7uz2s2dXbNX-ZL-agg@mail.gmail.com>

Dear Alakendu Das-ji,

Yes, involution and evolution are two English translation attempts found at
many places in this case.

As with all the intercultural translations, these two too have some
problems.

But for those who already know the original source language
expressions/ideas, they communicate correctly.

They may create problems while addressing the target language readers who
are new to the source language ideas.



On Thu, Aug 24, 2017 at 2:54 PM, alakendu das <
mailmealakendudas at rediffmail.com> wrote:

>
>
> Dr.Nagraj Paturi,
> This cycle of Avyakta/Vyakta is somewhat akin to what Swamiji referred as
> Involution/Evolution, and, according to him, every Involution preceeds an
> Evolution.
>
>
> ALAKENDU DAS.
>
>


-- 
Nagaraj Paturi

Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.


BoS, MIT School of Vedic Sciences, Pune, Maharashtra

BoS, Chinmaya Vishwavidyapeeth, Veliyanad, Kerala

Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies

FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of  Liberal Education,

(Pune, Maharashtra, INDIA )


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From davidpaolo.pierdominicileao at uniroma1.it  Thu Aug 24 13:19:20 2017
From: davidpaolo.pierdominicileao at uniroma1.it (David Pierdominici)
Date: Thu, 24 Aug 17 15:19:20 +0200
Subject: =?utf-8?Q?[INDOLOGY]_Prapann=C4=81m=E1=B9=9Bta?=
Message-ID: <8AA65390-5F15-4594-9A43-4CBD684D0F83@uniroma1.it>

Dear list members,

I am writing in order to have an elucidation about the dating of the  Prapann?m?ta by Anant?c?rya; I have found a reference on the web which locates this text and its author during the XVII century CE, but without any kind of explanation. On the contrary, I noticed that some scholars placed this hagiography in the XI century, very close to the life of R?m?nuja; I am reading at the moment a passage collocated in Vijayanagara (adhy?ya 123) related to the emperor Vir?p?k?a II (1465-1485). I think that dating the text to the XI century would be not so pertinent?
Could you kindly give me suggestions (about the dating or some studies/articles related to the topic)?
Many thanks in advance.
My best regards,


David Pierdominici
PhD candidate
Sapienza Universit? di Roma



-- 
___________________________________________
*Il tuo 5 diventa 1000*
Fai crescere la tua universit?
Dona il 5 per mille alla Sapienza
Codice fiscale: *80209930587*


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From hr at ivs.edu  Thu Aug 24 15:50:04 2017
From: hr at ivs.edu (HR)
Date: Thu, 24 Aug 17 08:50:04 -0700
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Gita 13.6
In-Reply-To: <CAJGj9ebmFGTbEc-dGHdLNwpQD7hY6oJCDzV-o0=gtY8mg_6qBA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1503589861-353753.494496919.fv7OFo4Jt002390@rs153.luxsci.com>

Thank you Naturaj-ji.

My question essentially is: what exactly is the unmanifest aspect of the creation?


> On Aug 24, 2017, at 3:53 AM, Nagaraj Paturi <nagarajpaturi at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Dear HR-ji,
> 
> If your question is, " Are the 'Avyakta' of 13.6 and 'Avyakta' of  8.18. one and the same?", 
> 
> then the answer is 'No' and 'Yes'
> 
> No, because the 'avyakta' of 13.6 is the unmanifest aspect /element of the creation during the vyakta phase of the creation. 
> 
> Whereas the  'avyakta' in 8.18 is the avyakta phase of the creation. 
> 
> Yes, because in 8.18 too 'avyakta is an aspect/dimension. In the avyakta phase, only avyakta aspect/dimension remains. All elements like Mahabhutani of 13.6, which exist in a vyakta aspect/dimension of them in the vyakta phase , change into their avyakta aspect/dimension during the avyakta phase.
> 
>  
> 
> On Thu, Aug 24, 2017 at 8:47 AM, Nagaraj Paturi <nagarajpaturi at gmail.com <mailto:nagarajpaturi at gmail.com>> wrote:
> Dear HR-ji,
> 
> The two axiomatic principles of Bh G (Bh G time 'Hinduism' ) are :
> 
> n?sat? vidyat? bh?vah n?bh?v? vidyat? satah. Bh G 2-16 (Existence does not come from non-existence and from existence non-existence does not come; i.e.,Nothing is created from nothing. Everything is created from something already in existence..Anything already in existence does not get destroyed)
> 
> and 
> 
> (in fact as a corollary of this),
> 
> Time/creation is cyclic.
> 
> Based on these two , all the vyakta does not get destroyed at the end of a creation /time cycle. Then what happens to the vyakta at that stage? It withdraws into its avyakta form (because n?bh?v? vidyat? satah) . What happens later? The new cycle of time/creation begins. What does that mean? All that is withdrawn into avyakta comes back into vyakta form. (because n?sat? vidyat? bh?vah) 
> 
> 
> 
> On Thu, Aug 24, 2017 at 4:26 AM, HR via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info <mailto:indology at list.indology.info>> wrote:
> Thank you, Nagaraj. I am still trying to grasp more clearly the sense of avyakta in verses like 8.18 ? 
> avyakt?d vyaktayah sarv?? prabhavanty ahar-?game
> 
> How would you define the avyakta as the source of manifest individuals (vyaktaya?)?
> 
> Howard
> 
>> On Aug 22, 2017, at 7:17 PM, Nagaraj Paturi <nagarajpaturi at gmail.com <mailto:nagarajpaturi at gmail.com>> wrote:
>> 
>> Dear HR-ji,
>> 
>> noun not adjective.
>> 
>> Yes, that is what I was about to point out.
>> 
>> In 13.6, it is a part of categories into which the "knowable field" as opposed to the "field - knower"  is  divided. 
>> 
>> ????????????????? ???????????????? ? ?
>> 
>> ??????????? ?????? ? ?~??? ??????????????? ? 13\-6? 
>> 
>> Similar is its use in 8-18, 8-20
>> 
>> ?????????? ???????? ?????? ???????????????? ?
>> 
>> ??????????? ?????????? ??????????????????? ? 8\-18?
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> ????????????? ???? ????? ???????? ???????????????? ?
>> 
>> 
>> ?? ? ??????? ?????? ???????? ? ???????? ? 8\-20?
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> The words element and dimension used by you are very apt. 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Interestingly it is both a dimension and element. 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Just for analogy, space and time in contemporary Physics are both dimensions and components. (Post Einstein, they are components of a continuum.)
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> mah?bh?t?ni, indriyagoocar?h are part of the vyakta component. ahank?rah, buddhih, indriy??i are parts of neither parts of the vyakta nor of the avykta. 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> This vyakta, avyakta division has its foundations right from the rigvedic expressions such as 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> p?d?sya vi?v?bh?t?ni trip?dasy?mr?tam divi. 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> v?d?ham?tam puru?am mah?ntam ?dityavar?am tamasah parast?t. 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> On Wed, Aug 23, 2017 at 6:38 AM, HR via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info <mailto:indology at list.indology.info>> wrote:
>> Thank you. Actually, avyakta is often used as a straightforward adjective, as in Bg 2.25. My interest here is when avyakta is used as a noun, as in Bg 12.1, or even more to the point, 8.18,20.
>> 
>> Howard
>> 
>>> On Aug 22, 2017, at 4:52 AM, alakendu das <mailmealakendudas at rediffmail.com <mailto:mailmealakendudas at rediffmail.com>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Scholar, 
>>>                  The best way to comprehend Avykta or "The unmanifested"is available in Gita itself.2.26(or may be 27,)says- A chheddyam,Adahhyam,Akleddya,Ashoshya eba cha ,Nitya Sarvagata Sthanu Chalayam ,Sanatana
>>> ........Avyaktayam,Achintyam,Avikaryam ucchyate.The concept of Avyakta in our Philosophy is dimensionless,although it
>>> is the sole EXISTENCE. The fact that it is dimensionless, can be accessed from this Upanishadic qoute- Ananu,Asthulam,Arhasham,A
>>> ..dirgham....etc.," Avyaktam' is the Sumnum Bonum of our Vedanta Philosophy.
>>>                      Alakendu Ds
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Sent from RediffmailNG on Android
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> From: HR via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info <mailto:indology at list.indology.info>>
>>> Sent: Tue, 22 Aug 2017 08:23:45 GMT+0530
>>> To: Indology List <indology at list.indology.info <mailto:indology at list.indology.info>>
>>> Subject: [INDOLOGY] Gita 13.6
>>> 
>>> Dear Scholars,
>>> 
>>>    I would appreciate insights on how we might understand the use of ?avyakta,? the ?unmanifest? in the Gita 13.6 and elsewhere as a type of element or dimension of this world.
>>> 
>>> Thanks,
>>> Howard
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info <mailto:INDOLOGY at list.indology.info>
>>> indology-owner at list.indology.info <mailto:indology-owner at list.indology.info> (messages to the list's managing committee)
>>> http://listinfo.indology.info <http://listinfo.indology.info/> (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe)
>>> 
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info <mailto:INDOLOGY at list.indology.info>
>> indology-owner at list.indology.info <mailto:indology-owner at list.indology.info> (messages to the list's managing committee)
>> http://listinfo.indology.info <http://listinfo.indology.info/> (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe)
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> -- 
>> Nagaraj Paturi
>>  
>> Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.
>> 
>> 
>> BoS, MIT School of Vedic Sciences, Pune, Maharashtra
>> 
>> BoS, Chinmaya Vishwavidyapeeth, Veliyanad, Kerala
>> 
>> Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies
>>  
>> FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of  Liberal Education,
>>  
>> (Pune, Maharashtra, INDIA )
>>  
>>  
>>  
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info <mailto:INDOLOGY at list.indology.info>
> indology-owner at list.indology.info <mailto:indology-owner at list.indology.info> (messages to the list's managing committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info <http://listinfo.indology.info/> (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe)
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Nagaraj Paturi
>  
> Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.
> 
> 
> BoS, MIT School of Vedic Sciences, Pune, Maharashtra
> 
> BoS, Chinmaya Vishwavidyapeeth, Veliyanad, Kerala
> 
> Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies
>  
> FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of  Liberal Education,
>  
> (Pune, Maharashtra, INDIA )
>  
>  
>  
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Nagaraj Paturi
>  
> Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.
> 
> 
> BoS, MIT School of Vedic Sciences, Pune, Maharashtra
> 
> BoS, Chinmaya Vishwavidyapeeth, Veliyanad, Kerala
> 
> Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies
>  
> FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of  Liberal Education,
>  
> (Pune, Maharashtra, INDIA )
>  
>  
>  



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From hr at ivs.edu  Thu Aug 24 16:06:50 2017
From: hr at ivs.edu (HR)
Date: Thu, 24 Aug 17 09:06:50 -0700
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Gita 13.6
In-Reply-To: <CAJGj9ebmFGTbEc-dGHdLNwpQD7hY6oJCDzV-o0=gtY8mg_6qBA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1503590822-7406548.12442899.fv7OG5wc7005487@rs153.luxsci.com>

My apology. My computer changed Nagaraj to Natura.

Thank you Nagaraj-ji.

My question essentially is: what exactly is the unmanifest aspect of the creation?


> On Aug 24, 2017, at 3:53 AM, Nagaraj Paturi <nagarajpaturi at gmail.com <mailto:nagarajpaturi at gmail.com>> wrote:
> 
> Dear HR-ji,
> 
> If your question is, " Are the 'Avyakta' of 13.6 and 'Avyakta' of  8.18. one and the same?", 
> 
> then the answer is 'No' and 'Yes'
> 
> No, because the 'avyakta' of 13.6 is the unmanifest aspect /element of the creation during the vyakta phase of the creation. 
> 
> Whereas the  'avyakta' in 8.18 is the avyakta phase of the creation. 
> 
> Yes, because in 8.18 too 'avyakta is an aspect/dimension. In the avyakta phase, only avyakta aspect/dimension remains. All elements like Mahabhutani of 13.6, which exist in a vyakta aspect/dimension of them in the vyakta phase , change into their avyakta aspect/dimension during the avyakta phase.
> 
>  
> 
> On Thu, Aug 24, 2017 at 8:47 AM, Nagaraj Paturi <nagarajpaturi at gmail.com <mailto:nagarajpaturi at gmail.com>> wrote:
> Dear HR-ji,
> 
> The two axiomatic principles of Bh G (Bh G time 'Hinduism' ) are :
> 
> n?sat? vidyat? bh?vah n?bh?v? vidyat? satah. Bh G 2-16 (Existence does not come from non-existence and from existence non-existence does not come; i.e.,Nothing is created from nothing. Everything is created from something already in existence..Anything already in existence does not get destroyed)
> 
> and 
> 
> (in fact as a corollary of this),
> 
> Time/creation is cyclic.
> 
> Based on these two , all the vyakta does not get destroyed at the end of a creation /time cycle. Then what happens to the vyakta at that stage? It withdraws into its avyakta form (because n?bh?v? vidyat? satah) . What happens later? The new cycle of time/creation begins. What does that mean? All that is withdrawn into avyakta comes back into vyakta form. (because n?sat? vidyat? bh?vah) 
> 
> 
> 
> On Thu, Aug 24, 2017 at 4:26 AM, HR via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info <mailto:indology at list.indology.info>> wrote:
> Thank you, Nagaraj. I am still trying to grasp more clearly the sense of avyakta in verses like 8.18 ? 
> avyakt?d vyaktayah sarv?? prabhavanty ahar-?game
> 
> How would you define the avyakta as the source of manifest individuals (vyaktaya?)?
> 
> Howard
> 
>> On Aug 22, 2017, at 7:17 PM, Nagaraj Paturi <nagarajpaturi at gmail.com <mailto:nagarajpaturi at gmail.com>> wrote:
>> 
>> Dear HR-ji,
>> 
>> noun not adjective.
>> 
>> Yes, that is what I was about to point out.
>> 
>> In 13.6, it is a part of categories into which the "knowable field" as opposed to the "field - knower"  is  divided. 
>> 
>> ????????????????? ???????????????? ? ?
>> 
>> ??????????? ?????? ? ?~??? ??????????????? ? 13\-6? 
>> 
>> Similar is its use in 8-18, 8-20
>> 
>> ?????????? ???????? ?????? ???????????????? ?
>> 
>> ??????????? ?????????? ??????????????????? ? 8\-18?
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> ????????????? ???? ????? ???????? ???????????????? ?
>> 
>> 
>> ?? ? ??????? ?????? ???????? ? ???????? ? 8\-20?
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> The words element and dimension used by you are very apt. 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Interestingly it is both a dimension and element. 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Just for analogy, space and time in contemporary Physics are both dimensions and components. (Post Einstein, they are components of a continuum.)
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> mah?bh?t?ni, indriyagoocar?h are part of the vyakta component. ahank?rah, buddhih, indriy??i are parts of neither parts of the vyakta nor of the avykta. 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> This vyakta, avyakta division has its foundations right from the rigvedic expressions such as 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> p?d?sya vi?v?bh?t?ni trip?dasy?mr?tam divi. 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> v?d?ham?tam puru?am mah?ntam ?dityavar?am tamasah parast?t. 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> On Wed, Aug 23, 2017 at 6:38 AM, HR via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info <mailto:indology at list.indology.info>> wrote:
>> Thank you. Actually, avyakta is often used as a straightforward adjective, as in Bg 2.25. My interest here is when avyakta is used as a noun, as in Bg 12.1, or even more to the point, 8.18,20.
>> 
>> Howard
>> 
>>> On Aug 22, 2017, at 4:52 AM, alakendu das <mailmealakendudas at rediffmail.com <mailto:mailmealakendudas at rediffmail.com>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Scholar, 
>>>                  The best way to comprehend Avykta or "The unmanifested"is available in Gita itself.2.26(or may be 27,)says- A chheddyam,Adahhyam,Akleddya,Ashoshya eba cha ,Nitya Sarvagata Sthanu Chalayam ,Sanatana
>>> ........Avyaktayam,Achintyam,Avikaryam ucchyate.The concept of Avyakta in our Philosophy is dimensionless,although it
>>> is the sole EXISTENCE. The fact that it is dimensionless, can be accessed from this Upanishadic qoute- Ananu,Asthulam,Arhasham,A
>>> ..dirgham....etc.," Avyaktam' is the Sumnum Bonum of our Vedanta Philosophy.
>>>                      Alakendu Ds
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Sent from RediffmailNG on Android
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> From: HR via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info <mailto:indology at list.indology.info>>
>>> Sent: Tue, 22 Aug 2017 08:23:45 GMT+0530
>>> To: Indology List <indology at list.indology.info <mailto:indology at list.indology.info>>
>>> Subject: [INDOLOGY] Gita 13.6
>>> 
>>> Dear Scholars,
>>> 
>>>    I would appreciate insights on how we might understand the use of ?avyakta,? the ?unmanifest? in the Gita 13.6 and elsewhere as a type of element or dimension of this world.
>>> 
>>> Thanks,
>>> Howard
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info <mailto:INDOLOGY at list.indology.info>
>>> indology-owner at list.indology.info <mailto:indology-owner at list.indology.info> (messages to the list's managing committee)
>>> http://listinfo.indology.info <http://listinfo.indology.info/> (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe)
>>> 
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info <mailto:INDOLOGY at list.indology.info>
>> indology-owner at list.indology.info <mailto:indology-owner at list.indology.info> (messages to the list's managing committee)
>> http://listinfo.indology.info <http://listinfo.indology.info/> (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe)
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> -- 
>> Nagaraj Paturi
>>  
>> Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.
>> 
>> 
>> BoS, MIT School of Vedic Sciences, Pune, Maharashtra
>> 
>> BoS, Chinmaya Vishwavidyapeeth, Veliyanad, Kerala
>> 
>> Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies
>>  
>> FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of  Liberal Education,
>>  
>> (Pune, Maharashtra, INDIA )
>>  
>>  
>>  
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info <mailto:INDOLOGY at list.indology.info>
> indology-owner at list.indology.info <mailto:indology-owner at list.indology.info> (messages to the list's managing committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info <http://listinfo.indology.info/> (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe)
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Nagaraj Paturi
>  
> Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.
> 
> 
> BoS, MIT School of Vedic Sciences, Pune, Maharashtra
> 
> BoS, Chinmaya Vishwavidyapeeth, Veliyanad, Kerala
> 
> Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies
>  
> FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of  Liberal Education,
>  
> (Pune, Maharashtra, INDIA )
>  
>  
>  
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Nagaraj Paturi
>  
> Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.
> 
> 
> BoS, MIT School of Vedic Sciences, Pune, Maharashtra
> 
> BoS, Chinmaya Vishwavidyapeeth, Veliyanad, Kerala
> 
> Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies
>  
> FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of  Liberal Education,
>  
> (Pune, Maharashtra, INDIA )
>  
>  
>  

_______________________________________________
INDOLOGY mailing list
INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee)
http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe)


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From shyamr at yorku.ca  Thu Aug 24 16:14:07 2017
From: shyamr at yorku.ca (Shyam Ranganathan)
Date: Thu, 24 Aug 17 12:14:07 -0400
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Gita 13.6
In-Reply-To: <1503589861-353753.494496919.fv7OFo4Jt002390@rs153.luxsci.com>
Message-ID: <a5f5237d-dbe7-0a47-0c66-62c1b86304e9@yorku.ca>

Dear Howard, and all

My two cents: Yoga/Bhakti is a procedural theory of ethics. Procedural 
theories prioritize the right (action, procedure, means) over the good 
(outcome, end, manifest thing).? The most procedural theory we have in 
the Western tradition is what the Gita calls "Karma Yoga," 
---deontology. According to this there are good things to do (duties) 
and they are justified by way of procedural considerations, not the ends.

Yoga/Bhakti in contrast defines the thing to be done by a procedural 
ideal---the Lord---and the good as the perfection of this practice. 
Hence, we shouldn't strive for the good, nor should we justify actions 
by their outcomes. We should rather understand proper action as an 
approximation to the Lord which defines the right, and the good 
automatically follows as a perfection of this practice.? In effect, we 
instantiate Lordliness as we perfect the practice of devotion to the Lord.

As the Lord is a procedural ideal, that is only manifest when we make 
perfect our devotion to it, it is in abstraction always unmanifest. But 
it can also become manifest too as a matter of its expression in a world 
devoted to It.

I have written about this in a few articles of late. Here's one:

"Bhagavad G?t?: The Dialectic of Four Moral Theories 
<https://philpapers.org/rec/SHYBGT>"

Related to this, and more specifically on Yoga/Bhakti, is:

"Pata?jali?s Yoga: Universal Ethics as the Formal Cause of Autonomy 
<https://philpapers.org/rec/RANPYU-2>"

Hope this helps,? and best wishes,
Shyam

Shyam Ranganathan
Department of Philosophy
York University, Toronto





On 24/08/2017 11:50 AM, HR via INDOLOGY wrote:
> Thank you Naturaj-ji.
>
> My question essentially is: what exactly is the unmanifest aspect of 
> the creation?
>
>
>> On Aug 24, 2017, at 3:53 AM, Nagaraj Paturi <nagarajpaturi at gmail.com 
>> <mailto:nagarajpaturi at gmail.com>> wrote:
>>
>> Dear HR-ji,
>>
>> If your question is, " Are the 'Avyakta' of 13.6 and 'Avyakta' of 
>> ?8.18. one and the same?",
>>
>> then the answer is 'No' and 'Yes'
>>
>> No, because the 'avyakta' of 13.6 is the unmanifest aspect /element 
>> of the creation during the vyakta phase of the creation.
>>
>> Whereas the ?'avyakta' in 8.18 is the avyakta phase of the creation.
>>
>> Yes, because in 8.18 too 'avyakta is an aspect/dimension. In the 
>> avyakta phase, only avyakta aspect/dimension remains. All elements 
>> like Mahabhutani of 13.6, which exist in a vyakta aspect/dimension of 
>> them in the vyakta phase , change into their avyakta aspect/dimension 
>> during the avyakta phase.
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Aug 24, 2017 at 8:47 AM, Nagaraj Paturi 
>> <nagarajpaturi at gmail.com <mailto:nagarajpaturi at gmail.com>> wrote:
>>
>>     Dear HR-ji,
>>
>>     The two axiomatic principles of Bh G (Bh G time 'Hinduism' ) are :
>>
>>     n?sat? vidyat? bh?vah n?bh?v? vidyat? satah. Bh G 2-16 (Existence
>>     does not come from non-existence and from existence non-existence
>>     does not come; i.e.,Nothing is created from nothing. Everything
>>     is created from something already in existence..Anything already
>>     in existence does not get destroyed)
>>
>>     and
>>
>>     (in fact as a corollary of this),
>>
>>     Time/creation is cyclic.
>>
>>     Based on these two , all the vyakta does not get destroyed at the
>>     end of a creation /time cycle. Then what happens to the vyakta at
>>     that stage? It withdraws into its avyakta form (because n?bh?v?
>>     vidyat? satah) . What happens later? The new cycle of
>>     time/creation begins. What does that mean? All that is withdrawn
>>     into avyakta comes back into vyakta form. (because n?sat? vidyat?
>>     bh?vah)
>>
>>
>>
>>     On Thu, Aug 24, 2017 at 4:26 AM, HR via INDOLOGY
>>     <indology at list.indology.info
>>     <mailto:indology at list.indology.info>> wrote:
>>
>>         Thank you, Nagaraj. I am still trying to grasp more clearly
>>         the sense of avyakta in verses like 8.18 ?
>>         avyakt?d vyaktayah sarv?? prabhavanty ahar-?game
>>
>>         How would you define the avyakta as the source of manifest
>>         individuals (vyaktaya?)?
>>
>>         Howard
>>
>>>         On Aug 22, 2017, at 7:17 PM, Nagaraj Paturi
>>>         <nagarajpaturi at gmail.com <mailto:nagarajpaturi at gmail.com>>
>>>         wrote:
>>>
>>>         Dear HR-ji,
>>>
>>>         noun not adjective.
>>>
>>>         Yes, that is what I was about to point out.
>>>
>>>         In 13.6, it is a part of categories into which the "knowable
>>>         field" as opposed to the "field - knower" ?is ?divided.
>>>
>>>         ????????????????? ???????????????? ? ?
>>>
>>>         ??????????? ?????? ? ?~??? ??????????????? ? 13\-6?
>>>
>>>         Similar is its use in 8-18, 8-20
>>>
>>>         ?????????? ???????? ?????? ???????????????? ?
>>>
>>>         ??????????? ?????????? ????????????????????? 8\-18?
>>>
>>>
>>>         ????????????? ???? ????? ???????? ???????????????? ?
>>>
>>>
>>>         ?? ? ??????? ?????? ???????? ? ???????? ? 8\-20?
>>>
>>>
>>>         The words element and dimension used by you are very apt.
>>>
>>>
>>>         Interestingly it is both a dimension and element.
>>>
>>>
>>>         Just for analogy, space and time in contemporary Physics are
>>>         both dimensions and components. (Post Einstein, they are
>>>         components of a continuum.)
>>>
>>>
>>>         mah?bh?t?ni, indriyagoocar?h are part of the vyakta
>>>         component. ahank?rah, buddhih, indriy??i are parts of
>>>         neither parts of the vyakta nor of the avykta.
>>>
>>>
>>>         This vyakta, avyakta division has its foundations right from
>>>         the rigvedic expressions such as
>>>
>>>
>>>         p?d?sya vi?v?bh?t?ni trip?dasy?mr?tam divi.
>>>
>>>
>>>         v?d?ham?tam puru?am mah?ntam ?dityavar?am tamasah parast?t.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>         On Wed, Aug 23, 2017 at 6:38 AM, HR via INDOLOGY
>>>         <indology at list.indology.info
>>>         <mailto:indology at list.indology.info>> wrote:
>>>
>>>             Thank you. Actually, avyakta is often used as a
>>>             straightforward adjective, as in Bg 2.25. My interest
>>>             here is when avyakta is used as a noun, as in Bg 12.1,
>>>             or even more to the point, 8.18,20.
>>>
>>>             Howard
>>>
>>>>             On Aug 22, 2017, at 4:52 AM, alakendu das
>>>>             <mailmealakendudas at rediffmail.com
>>>>             <mailto:mailmealakendudas at rediffmail.com>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>             Scholar,
>>>>             ?The best way to comprehend Avykta or "The
>>>>             unmanifested"is available in Gita itself.2.26(or may be
>>>>             27,)says- A chheddyam,Adahhyam,Akleddya,Ashoshya eba
>>>>             cha ,Nitya Sarvagata Sthanu Chalayam ,Sanatana
>>>>             ........Avyaktayam,Achintyam,Avikaryam ucchyate.The
>>>>             concept of Avyakta in our Philosophy is
>>>>             dimensionless,although it
>>>>             is the sole EXISTENCE. The fact that it is
>>>>             dimensionless, can be accessed from this Upanishadic
>>>>             qoute- Ananu,Asthulam,Arhasham,A
>>>>             ..dirgham....etc.," Avyaktam' is the Sumnum Bonum of
>>>>             our Vedanta Philosophy.
>>>>             ?Alakendu Ds
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>             Sent from RediffmailNG on Android
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>             From: HR via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info
>>>>             <mailto:indology at list.indology.info>>
>>>>             Sent: Tue, 22 Aug 2017 08:23:45 GMT+0530
>>>>             To: Indology List <indology at list.indology.info
>>>>             <mailto:indology at list.indology.info>>
>>>>             Subject: [INDOLOGY] Gita 13.6
>>>>
>>>>             Dear Scholars,
>>>>
>>>>             ???I would appreciate insights on how we might
>>>>             understand the use of ?avyakta,? the ?unmanifest? in
>>>>             the Gita 13.6 and elsewhere as a type of element or
>>>>             dimension of this world.
>>>>
>>>>             Thanks,
>>>>             Howard
>>>>             _______________________________________________
>>>>             INDOLOGY mailing list
>>>>             INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>>>>             <mailto:INDOLOGY at list.indology.info>
>>>>             indology-owner at list.indology.info
>>>>             <mailto:indology-owner at list.indology.info> (messages to
>>>>             the list's managing committee)
>>>>             http://listinfo.indology.info
>>>>             <http://listinfo.indology.info/> (where you can change
>>>>             your list options or unsubscribe)
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>             _______________________________________________
>>>             INDOLOGY mailing list
>>>             INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>>>             <mailto:INDOLOGY at list.indology.info>
>>>             indology-owner at list.indology.info
>>>             <mailto:indology-owner at list.indology.info> (messages to
>>>             the list's managing committee)
>>>             http://listinfo.indology.info
>>>             <http://listinfo.indology.info/> (where you can change
>>>             your list options or unsubscribe)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>         -- 
>>>         Nagaraj Paturi
>>>         Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.
>>>
>>>
>>>         BoS, MIT School of Vedic Sciences, Pune, Maharashtra
>>>
>>>         BoS, Chinmaya Vishwavidyapeeth, Veliyanad, Kerala
>>>
>>>         Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies
>>>         FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of??Liberal
>>>         Education,
>>>         (Pune, Maharashtra,?INDIA?)
>>
>>
>>         _______________________________________________
>>         INDOLOGY mailing list
>>         INDOLOGY at list.indology.info <mailto:INDOLOGY at list.indology.info>
>>         indology-owner at list.indology.info
>>         <mailto:indology-owner at list.indology.info> (messages to the
>>         list's managing committee)
>>         http://listinfo.indology.info
>>         <http://listinfo.indology.info/> (where you can change your
>>         list options or unsubscribe)
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>     -- 
>>     Nagaraj Paturi
>>     Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.
>>
>>
>>     BoS, MIT School of Vedic Sciences, Pune, Maharashtra
>>
>>     BoS, Chinmaya Vishwavidyapeeth, Veliyanad, Kerala
>>
>>     Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies
>>     FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of??Liberal Education,
>>     (Pune, Maharashtra,?INDIA?)
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -- 
>> Nagaraj Paturi
>> Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.
>>
>>
>> BoS, MIT School of Vedic Sciences, Pune, Maharashtra
>>
>> BoS, Chinmaya Vishwavidyapeeth, Veliyanad, Kerala
>>
>> Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies
>> FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of??Liberal Education,
>> (Pune, Maharashtra,?INDIA?)
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe)

-- 

ShyamRanganathan

MA,MA, PhD

Department of Philosophy

York University, Toronto

shyam-ranganathan.info <http://shyam-ranganathan.info/>

/The Bloomsbury Research Handbook of Indian Ethics 
<http://www.bloomsbury.com/uk/the-bloomsbury-research-handbook-of-indian-ethics-9781472587770/>/

/Pata?jali`s Yoga S?tras 
<http://penguin.co.in/book/classics/patanjalis-yoga-sutra/>/?(Translation, 
Edition and Commentary)

/Translating Evaluative Discourse: The Semantics of Thick and Thin 
Concepts <https://philpapers.org/rec/SHYTED>/

Full List, Publications <https://philpapers.org/s/shyam%20ranganathan>



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From wujastyk at gmail.com  Fri Aug 25 05:24:03 2017
From: wujastyk at gmail.com (Dominik Wujastyk)
Date: Thu, 24 Aug 17 23:24:03 -0600
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Fwd:  Starting a new academic journal
In-Reply-To: <HE1PR0902MB1753578A84FD96C94C035BF7A59A0@HE1PR0902MB1753.eurprd09.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <CAKdt-Cdg1jc-=zar8U5n2LzZiXH55e7dQ-xyMjT+79=RKSpW-g@mail.gmail.com>

Arlo asked me to share our correspondence with the list so that he can
continue in public.
Best,
Dominik


------------------------------
*From:* Dominik Wujastyk <wujastyk at gmail.com>
*Sent:* Wednesday, August 23, 2017 8:46 PM
*To:* Arlo Griffiths
*Subject:* Re: [INDOLOGY] Starting a new academic journal

But Arlo, every journal you mention is pay-to-read.  One of the premises of
the OA model is that taxpayer-funded research should not be paid for
twice.  As the OLH site says (italics mine),

Since 1986, subscription costs for academic journals have risen by 300%
above inflation. In addition to exponentially increased research output
over this period this has triggered what is known as ?the serials crisis?;
the inability of library budgets to keep pace with the prices set by
publishers.

Simultaneously, it has been realised that* putting research behind paywalls
*is both unjust (especially if the research was funded by the taxpayer) and
also unhelpful; scholarly and scientific practices are not advanced by
restricting access. This led to the rise of the open access movement. Open
access is traditionally schematized into two routes: green and gold. The
former means that access is made open through the author depositing a copy
of their article in their institution?s repository. The second means that
the journal itself is open and free to read.


Several "even-older-model" journals like the BSOAS, the JRAS, and *Medical
History* could once have been included in your list, with ABORI and the
others.  But most regrettably, they sold their journals to Cambridge
University Press.  (The example of Medical History is complicated, because
it is both free and paywalled simultaneously.)

Best,
Dominik


On 22 August 2017 at 22:35, Arlo Griffiths <arlogriffiths at hotmail.com>
wrote:

> Dear Dominik,
>
> There is of course an another 'old model' (perhaps older than the one
> involving for-profit enterprises against which you protest): that of an
> academic institution or learned society running its own scholarly journal
> and publishing it wholly independently or with only marginal involvement of
> any for-profit enterprise.
>
> Some of our best and most venerable journals belong to this category. To
> name but five, from five different countries:
>
> Annals of the Bhandarkar Oriental Research Institute
>
> Bulletin de l'?cole fran?aise d'Extr?me-Orient
>
> Journal of the American Oriental Society
>
> Wiener Zeitschrift f?r die Kunde S?dasiens
>
> Zeitschrift der Deutschen Morgenl?ndischen Gesellschaft
>
> I personally prefer to support and publish in these kinds of journals, and
> have wondered why colleagues feel the need to create new journals if
> excellent old ones already exist, outside of the for-profit publishing
> framework.
>
> Best wishes,
>
> Arlo Griffiths
>


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From mmdesh at umich.edu  Fri Aug 25 11:11:33 2017
From: mmdesh at umich.edu (Madhav Deshpande)
Date: Fri, 25 Aug 17 07:11:33 -0400
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Popularity of Pseudo-Sanskrit
Message-ID: <CAB3-dzd9f4VNzdARcP88DOM8YUXhxLLKFw35QA4eSzWQQ9Epjw@mail.gmail.com>

Dear Friends,

     From time to time, one comes across popular slogans that are composed
in Pseudo-Sanskrit.  The one made popular by Narendra Modi was ??????
????.  In today's edition of the Marathi newspaper Lok Satta, I came across
this one:

[image: Inline image 1]

This shows the popularity of Pop-Sanskrit.

Madhav Deshpande


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From mmdesh at umich.edu  Fri Aug 25 12:52:29 2017
From: mmdesh at umich.edu (Madhav Deshpande)
Date: Fri, 25 Aug 17 08:52:29 -0400
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Popularity of Pseudo-Sanskrit
In-Reply-To: <CAB3-dzd9f4VNzdARcP88DOM8YUXhxLLKFw35QA4eSzWQQ9Epjw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAB3-dzftQgeF=Pvo_HuEhG+mci+dg5krm1GjYxRro6cW3nbj3g@mail.gmail.com>

Here is the scan of the page from Lok Satta attached.  Hope this is now
readable.

Madhav Deshpande

On Fri, Aug 25, 2017 at 7:11 AM, Madhav Deshpande <mmdesh at umich.edu> wrote:

> Dear Friends,
>
>      From time to time, one comes across popular slogans that are composed
> in Pseudo-Sanskrit.  The one made popular by Narendra Modi was ??????
> ????.  In today's edition of the Marathi newspaper Lok Satta, I came across
> this one:
>
> [image: Inline image 1]
>
> This shows the popularity of Pop-Sanskrit.
>
> Madhav Deshpande
>


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From audrey.truschke at gmail.com  Fri Aug 25 15:59:37 2017
From: audrey.truschke at gmail.com (Audrey Truschke)
Date: Fri, 25 Aug 17 11:59:37 -0400
Subject: [INDOLOGY] New journal: "South Asian Intellectual History"
In-Reply-To: <CAKq175oqF6EBVZ3csA5g__ZMpv4v_1q7U6Ja5KeBxMCmO4EHfA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAKq175pittfTsoqHq1FkxMbAObT6rTFn40NpeBpeUsBp8SHH1Q@mail.gmail.com>

Dear Colleagues,

I know it's been a while for this discussion, but I did some digging this
morning and thought that others might be interested in Brill's profit
margins and how they brag about increased revenue from academic journals in
recent years. A few highlights:

Brill had a "sharp increase of profit" from 2015 to 2016 (here
<http://www.brill.com/sites/default/files/brill_press_release_egm.pdf>),
followed by another increase in 2017 (here
<http://www.brill.com/sites/default/files/press_release_brill_hyresults_2017.pdf>
)


>From 2015 to 2016, Brill acquired more journals, and "journal revenue grew
by 5%" (here
<http://www.brill.com/sites/default/files/brill_key-figures_2016_eng.pdf>).

In their 2017 Half Year Report, Brill named two specific journals among
their acquisitions, saying "It is expected that the [two] journals will
contribute to the revenue and profit in 2017" (here
<http://www.brill.com/sites/default/files/brill_hy_report_2017.pdf>).
Perhaps SAIH will merit a mention in the end of year report?


For more about investor relations and the financial health of Brill, see
here <http://www.brill.com/resources/corporate/investor-relations>.

Audrey

Audrey Truschke
Assistant Professor
Department of History
Rutgers University-Newark

On Wed, Jul 19, 2017 at 2:43 PM, Dominik Wujastyk via INDOLOGY <
indology at list.indology.info> wrote:

> Thank you, Andrew.
>
> On 9 July 2017 at 20:09, Andrew Ollett <andrew.ollett at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Gladly:
>>
>> 2.  http://www.brill.com/brill-open-0.  Brill also allows for proofs
>> (not the final publication) to be uploaded on academia.edu.
>> 3.  No processing fee.
>>
>
> ?One would never expect to pay a processing fee except if the article? is
> being published OA.  And in that case, yes, Brill charges about ?2000 per
> article for CC-BY.  See the pricing charts here
> <http://www.brill.com/about/open-access/brill-open-authors>.
>
> A related question is whether, having paid this fee, the author retains
> copyright and issues the CC-BY license, or whether Brill takes the
> copyright and the author's money, and they issue the CC-BY license.  The
> latter is the case with this journal.
>
>
>
>> 4.  Yes, Brill owns the right, but permissions for reprint are rather
>> easily granted:  http://www.brill.com/about/policies/rights-permissions
>>
>
> ?I balk at asking permission to photocopy my own articles.  It's just not
> right.  A more equitable situation is for the author to retain copyright
> and issue to the publisher a license for them to do specifically what they
> wish.  See some sample licenses and information here
> <https://cikitsa.blogspot.co.at/2012/01/copyright-and-open-access.html>.
>
> In the past, I have written to Brill saying "no" they can't have my
> copyright, but that I'm willing to issue them a license.  And to my
> surprise, they said yes immediately, and sent me a ready-printed license
> agreement.  The terms weren't great, but at least they knew what I was
> talking about and were prepared to let me keep copyright of my own work.
>
>
> Sadly, because of the above issues, I personally do not find this new
> journal offers authors a modern, fair deal.  It's obviously an exciting and
> intellectually valuable initiative.  But it is a great pity the founding
> editors did not press Brill harder to offer authors a more liberal deal
> that respected their rights.
>
> Best,
>
> Dominik
>
> --
> ?| ?
> Professor Dominik Wujastyk
> ? |?
> ? ?
> Singhmar Chair in Classical Indian Society and Polit
> ?y | ?
> Department of History and Classics
> <http://historyandclassics.ualberta.ca/>, ?University of Alberta, Canada
> ? |?
> ?
> ?
> ualberta.Academia.edu/DominikWujastyk
> ?
> | ?
>
>
> --
> Professor Dominik Wujastyk* <http://ualberta.Academia.edu/DominikWujastyk>
> Singhmar Chair in Classical Indian Society and Polity
> Department of History and Classics
> <http://historyandclassics.ualberta.ca/>
> University of Alberta, Canada
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
> committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
> unsubscribe)
>


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From mkapstei at uchicago.edu  Fri Aug 25 17:34:20 2017
From: mkapstei at uchicago.edu (Matthew Kapstein)
Date: Fri, 25 Aug 17 17:34:20 +0000
Subject: [INDOLOGY] book search
Message-ID: <82C3E42590D939418C74DD76B97DDED047C564DB@xm-mbx-06-prod>

Dear friends,

I am trying to locate a copy of Esther Solomon, Avidya--A Problem of Truth and Reality, Gujarat University
thesis Publication Series, 1969. It doesn't seem to be available on archive.org.

(BTW - one of the funny difficulties in searching for Esther Solomon's work is that, because both of her
names are biblical, one turns up literally hundreds of hits for various Bible editions.)

If anyone might have a pdf, not of the Bible, but of Avidya, I'd be profoundly grateful.

thanks in advance,
Matthew

Matthew Kapstein
Directeur d'?tudes,
Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes

Numata Visiting Professor of Buddhist Studies,
The University of Chicago
________________________________



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From mkapstei at uchicago.edu  Fri Aug 25 17:44:56 2017
From: mkapstei at uchicago.edu (Matthew Kapstein)
Date: Fri, 25 Aug 17 17:44:56 +0000
Subject: [INDOLOGY] another book search
Message-ID: <82C3E42590D939418C74DD76B97DDED047C564EC@xm-mbx-06-prod>

Along the same lines as the previous, I am also looking for
Chandranarayan Mishra
The problem of nescience in Indian philosophy
Darbhanga : Mithila Institute of Post Graduate Studies and Research in Sanskrit Learning, 1977.
once again,
many thanks in advance,

Matthew

Matthew Kapstein
Directeur d'?tudes,
Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes

Numata Visiting Professor of Buddhist Studies,
The University of Chicago
________________________________



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From nagarajpaturi at gmail.com  Fri Aug 25 19:07:34 2017
From: nagarajpaturi at gmail.com (Nagaraj Paturi)
Date: Sat, 26 Aug 17 00:37:34 +0530
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Gita 13.6
In-Reply-To: <a5f5237d-dbe7-0a47-0c66-62c1b86304e9@yorku.ca>
Message-ID: <CAJGj9ebxMzvg9M0kvowG_BWEcJz8r4pA7+7c3sS0J2mN4Ad4pQ@mail.gmail.com>

> My question essentially is: what exactly is the unmanifest aspect of the
creation?

Dear HR-ji,

Sorry for not being able to get back to you earlier than this.

Answering questions such as "what exactly is the unmanifest aspect of the
creation?" in a modern context is a little tricky.

We need to be careful not to hastily read the concepts of modern sciences
into these expressions/ideas of a different space and time; at the same
time, it may seem easy to take help of some modern understandings as
analogies, equivalents or modern parlance for these ideas of that space and
time.

As an analogy, let us take the example of forms of energy such as heat.
Heat energy is inferred through its effects but is not directly cognised.
Its effects are vyakta (manifest) but it itself is avyakta (unmanifest).

There are other classifications of creation in Gita:

Prakriti and Purusha; as in saankhya dars'ana, this is the
dynamised/dynamising and dynamising aspects of creation. For example, the
body of a living organism that gets left as a corpse after its 'death', is
Prakriti aspect of nature.  The 'life' that kept it 'alive' while it was
'living' is an example for Purusha aspect of nature. The 'life' itself is
avyakta (unmanifest). Its existence is inferred from the cognisable 'vital'
functions of the organism.

This idea of Purusha is taken to a viraaT ('cosmic') level as in Purusha
sUkta.

The self-regulated and self-sustained nature of the cosmos makes it to be
perceived as 'living' /as organism. This view is what is reflected in
Purusha Sukta. But its 'life' , like the life of a living organism is
inferred from its self-regulated, self-sustained,l functions and existence.
This 'life' of it is avyakta.

On Thu, Aug 24, 2017 at 9:44 PM, Shyam Ranganathan via INDOLOGY <
indology at list.indology.info> wrote:

> Dear Howard, and all
>
> My two cents: Yoga/Bhakti is a procedural theory of ethics. Procedural
> theories prioritize the right (action, procedure, means) over the good
> (outcome, end, manifest thing).  The most procedural theory we have in the
> Western tradition is what the Gita calls "Karma Yoga," ---deontology.
> According to this there are good things to do (duties) and they are
> justified by way of procedural considerations, not the ends.
>
> Yoga/Bhakti in contrast defines the thing to be done by a procedural
> ideal---the Lord---and the good as the perfection of this practice. Hence,
> we shouldn't strive for the good, nor should we justify actions by their
> outcomes. We should rather understand proper action as an approximation to
> the Lord which defines the right, and the good automatically follows as a
> perfection of this practice.  In effect, we instantiate Lordliness as we
> perfect the practice of devotion to the Lord.
>
> As the Lord is a procedural ideal, that is only manifest when we make
> perfect our devotion to it, it is in abstraction always unmanifest. But it
> can also become manifest too as a matter of its expression in a world
> devoted to It.
> I have written about this in a few articles of late. Here's one:
>
> "Bhagavad G?t?: The Dialectic of Four Moral Theories
> <https://philpapers.org/rec/SHYBGT>"
>
> Related to this, and more specifically on Yoga/Bhakti, is:
>
> "Pata?jali?s Yoga: Universal Ethics as the Formal Cause of Autonomy
> <https://philpapers.org/rec/RANPYU-2>"
>
> Hope this helps,  and best wishes,
> Shyam
>
> Shyam Ranganathan
> Department of Philosophy
> York University, Toronto
>
>
>
>
>
> On 24/08/2017 11:50 AM, HR via INDOLOGY wrote:
>
> Thank you Naturaj-ji.
>
> My question essentially is: what exactly is the unmanifest aspect of the
> creation?
>
>
> On Aug 24, 2017, at 3:53 AM, Nagaraj Paturi <nagarajpaturi at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> Dear HR-ji,
>
> If your question is, " Are the 'Avyakta' of 13.6 and 'Avyakta' of  8.18.
> one and the same?",
>
> then the answer is 'No' and 'Yes'
>
> No, because the 'avyakta' of 13.6 is the unmanifest aspect /element of the
> creation during the vyakta phase of the creation.
>
> Whereas the  'avyakta' in 8.18 is the avyakta phase of the creation.
>
> Yes, because in 8.18 too 'avyakta is an aspect/dimension. In the avyakta
> phase, only avyakta aspect/dimension remains. All elements like Mahabhutani
> of 13.6, which exist in a vyakta aspect/dimension of them in the vyakta
> phase , change into their avyakta aspect/dimension during the avyakta phase.
>
>
>
> On Thu, Aug 24, 2017 at 8:47 AM, Nagaraj Paturi <nagarajpaturi at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Dear HR-ji,
>>
>> The two axiomatic principles of Bh G (Bh G time 'Hinduism' ) are :
>>
>> n?sat? vidyat? bh?vah n?bh?v? vidyat? satah. Bh G 2-16 (Existence does
>> not come from non-existence and from existence non-existence does not come;
>> i.e.,Nothing is created from nothing. Everything is created from something
>> already in existence..Anything already in existence does not get destroyed)
>>
>> and
>>
>> (in fact as a corollary of this),
>>
>> Time/creation is cyclic.
>>
>> Based on these two , all the vyakta does not get destroyed at the end of
>> a creation /time cycle. Then what happens to the vyakta at that stage? It
>> withdraws into its avyakta form (because n?bh?v? vidyat? satah) . What
>> happens later? The new cycle of time/creation begins. What does that mean?
>> All that is withdrawn into avyakta comes back into vyakta form. (because
>> n?sat? vidyat? bh?vah)
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Aug 24, 2017 at 4:26 AM, HR via INDOLOGY <
>> indology at list.indology.info> wrote:
>>
>>> Thank you, Nagaraj. I am still trying to grasp more clearly the sense of
>>> avyakta in verses like 8.18 ?
>>> avyakt?d vyaktayah sarv?? prabhavanty ahar-?game
>>>
>>> How would you define the avyakta as the source of manifest individuals
>>> (vyaktaya?)?
>>>
>>> Howard
>>>
>>> On Aug 22, 2017, at 7:17 PM, Nagaraj Paturi <nagarajpaturi at gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Dear HR-ji,
>>>
>>> noun not adjective.
>>>
>>> Yes, that is what I was about to point out.
>>>
>>> In 13.6, it is a part of categories into which the "knowable field" as
>>> opposed to the "field - knower"  is  divided.
>>>
>>> ????????????????? ???????????????? ? ?
>>> ??????????? ?????? ? ?~??? ??????????????? ? 13\-6?
>>>
>>> Similar is its use in 8-18, 8-20
>>>
>>> ?????????? ???????? ?????? ???????????????? ?
>>>
>>> ??????????? ?????????? ??????????????????? ? 8\-18?
>>>
>>>
>>> ????????????? ???? ????? ???????? ???????????????? ?
>>>
>>> ?? ? ??????? ?????? ???????? ? ???????? ? 8\-20?
>>>
>>>
>>> The words element and dimension used by you are very apt.
>>>
>>>
>>> Interestingly it is both a dimension and element.
>>>
>>>
>>> Just for analogy, space and time in contemporary Physics are both
>>> dimensions and components. (Post Einstein, they are components of a
>>> continuum.)
>>>
>>>
>>> mah?bh?t?ni, indriyagoocar?h are part of the vyakta component.
>>> ahank?rah, buddhih, indriy??i are parts of neither parts of the vyakta nor
>>> of the avykta.
>>>
>>>
>>> This vyakta, avyakta division has its foundations right from the
>>> rigvedic expressions such as
>>>
>>>
>>> p?d?sya vi?v?bh?t?ni trip?dasy?mr?tam divi.
>>>
>>>
>>> v?d?ham?tam puru?am mah?ntam ?dityavar?am tamasah parast?t.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wed, Aug 23, 2017 at 6:38 AM, HR via INDOLOGY <
>>> indology at list.indology.info> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Thank you. Actually, avyakta is often used as a straightforward
>>>> adjective, as in Bg 2.25. My interest here is when avyakta is used as a
>>>> noun, as in Bg 12.1, or even more to the point, 8.18,20.
>>>>
>>>> Howard
>>>>
>>>> On Aug 22, 2017, at 4:52 AM, alakendu das <
>>>> mailmealakendudas at rediffmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Scholar,
>>>>                  The best way to comprehend Avykta or "The
>>>> unmanifested"is available in Gita itself.2.26(or may be 27,)says- A
>>>> chheddyam,Adahhyam,Akleddya,Ashoshya eba cha ,Nitya Sarvagata Sthanu
>>>> Chalayam ,Sanatana
>>>> ........Avyaktayam,Achintyam,Avikaryam ucchyate.The concept of Avyakta
>>>> in our Philosophy is dimensionless,although it
>>>> is the sole EXISTENCE. The fact that it is dimensionless, can be
>>>> accessed from this Upanishadic qoute- Ananu,Asthulam,Arhasham,A
>>>> ..dirgham....etc.," Avyaktam' is the Sumnum Bonum of our Vedanta
>>>> Philosophy.
>>>>                      Alakendu Ds
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Sent from RediffmailNG on Android
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> From: HR via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info>
>>>> Sent: Tue, 22 Aug 2017 08:23:45 GMT+0530
>>>> To: Indology List <indology at list.indology.info>
>>>> Subject: [INDOLOGY] Gita 13.6
>>>>
>>>> Dear Scholars,
>>>>
>>>>    I would appreciate insights on how we might understand the use of
>>>> ?avyakta,? the ?unmanifest? in the Gita 13.6 and elsewhere as a type of
>>>> element or dimension of this world.
>>>>
>>>> Thanks,
>>>> Howard
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>>>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>>>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
>>>> committee)
>>>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options
>>>> or unsubscribe)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>>>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>>>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
>>>> committee)
>>>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options
>>>> or unsubscribe)
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Nagaraj Paturi
>>>
>>> Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.
>>>
>>>
>>> BoS, MIT School of Vedic Sciences, Pune, Maharashtra
>>>
>>> BoS, Chinmaya Vishwavidyapeeth, Veliyanad, Kerala
>>>
>>> Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies
>>>
>>> FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of  Liberal Education,
>>>
>>> (Pune, Maharashtra, INDIA )
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
>>> committee)
>>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options
>>> or unsubscribe)
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Nagaraj Paturi
>>
>> Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.
>>
>>
>> BoS, MIT School of Vedic Sciences, Pune, Maharashtra
>>
>> BoS, Chinmaya Vishwavidyapeeth, Veliyanad, Kerala
>>
>> Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies
>>
>> FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of  Liberal Education,
>>
>> (Pune, Maharashtra, INDIA )
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Nagaraj Paturi
>
> Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.
>
>
> BoS, MIT School of Vedic Sciences, Pune, Maharashtra
>
> BoS, Chinmaya Vishwavidyapeeth, Veliyanad, Kerala
>
> Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies
>
> FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of  Liberal Education,
>
> (Pune, Maharashtra, INDIA )
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing listINDOLOGY at list.indology.infoindology-owner@list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee)http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe)
>
>
> --
>
> Shyam Ranganathan
>
> MA,MA, PhD
>
> Department of Philosophy
>
> York University, Toronto
>
>
>
> shyam-ranganathan.info  <http://shyam-ranganathan.info/>
>
>
>
> *The Bloomsbury Research Handbook of Indian Ethics
> <http://www.bloomsbury.com/uk/the-bloomsbury-research-handbook-of-indian-ethics-9781472587770/>*
>
>
>
> *Pata?jali`s Yoga S?tras
> <http://penguin.co.in/book/classics/patanjalis-yoga-sutra/>* (Translation,
> Edition and Commentary)
>
>
>
> *Translating Evaluative Discourse: The Semantics of Thick and Thin
> Concepts <https://philpapers.org/rec/SHYTED>*
>
>
>
> Full List, Publications <https://philpapers.org/s/shyam%20ranganathan>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
> committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
> unsubscribe)
>



-- 
Nagaraj Paturi

Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.


BoS, MIT School of Vedic Sciences, Pune, Maharashtra

BoS, Chinmaya Vishwavidyapeeth, Veliyanad, Kerala

Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies

FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of  Liberal Education,

(Pune, Maharashtra, INDIA )


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From mkapstei at uchicago.edu  Fri Aug 25 20:27:41 2017
From: mkapstei at uchicago.edu (Matthew Kapstein)
Date: Fri, 25 Aug 17 20:27:41 +0000
Subject: [INDOLOGY] another book search
In-Reply-To: <82C3E42590D939418C74DD76B97DDED047C564EC@xm-mbx-06-prod>
Message-ID: <82C3E42590D939418C74DD76B97DDED047C56581@xm-mbx-06-prod>

Many thanks to Dan Lusthaus for locating scans of the Solomon work.
I'm still looking for the Chandranarayan Mishra.

Matthew Kapstein
Directeur d'?tudes,
Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes

Numata Visiting Professor of Buddhist Studies,
The University of Chicago
________________________________



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From wujastyk at gmail.com  Sat Aug 26 01:17:08 2017
From: wujastyk at gmail.com (Dominik Wujastyk)
Date: Fri, 25 Aug 17 19:17:08 -0600
Subject: [INDOLOGY] New journal: "South Asian Intellectual History"
In-Reply-To: <CAKq175pittfTsoqHq1FkxMbAObT6rTFn40NpeBpeUsBp8SHH1Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAKdt-CdVEiCK0MWEOdSmCC3AHBQYGo+iJyFHRrHh3e5EwJXJiA@mail.gmail.com>

I should stop whining about freedom and integrity, and just buy shares in
Brill!

?
--
Professor Dominik Wujastyk <http://ualberta.academia.edu/DominikWujastyk>
?,?

Singhmar Chair in Classical Indian Society and Polity
?,?

Department of History and Classics <http://historyandclassics.ualberta.ca/>
?,?
University of Alberta, Canada
?.?

South Asia at the U of A:

?sas.ualberta.ca?
??


On 25 August 2017 at 09:59, Audrey Truschke via INDOLOGY <
indology at list.indology.info> wrote:

> Dear Colleagues,
>
> I know it's been a while for this discussion, but I did some digging this
> morning and thought that others might be interested in Brill's profit
> margins and how they brag about increased revenue from academic journals in
> recent years. A few highlights:
>
> Brill had a "sharp increase of profit" from 2015 to 2016 (here
> <http://www.brill.com/sites/default/files/brill_press_release_egm.pdf>),
> followed by another increase in 2017 (here
> <http://www.brill.com/sites/default/files/press_release_brill_hyresults_2017.pdf>
> )
>
>
> From 2015 to 2016, Brill acquired more journals, and "journal revenue grew
> by 5%" (here
> <http://www.brill.com/sites/default/files/brill_key-figures_2016_eng.pdf>
> ).
>
> In their 2017 Half Year Report, Brill named two specific journals among
> their acquisitions, saying "It is expected that the [two] journals will
> contribute to the revenue and profit in 2017" (here
> <http://www.brill.com/sites/default/files/brill_hy_report_2017.pdf>).
> Perhaps SAIH will merit a mention in the end of year report?
>
>
> For more about investor relations and the financial health of Brill, see
> here <http://www.brill.com/resources/corporate/investor-relations>.
>
> Audrey
>
> Audrey Truschke
> Assistant Professor
> Department of History
> Rutgers University-Newark
>
> On Wed, Jul 19, 2017 at 2:43 PM, Dominik Wujastyk via INDOLOGY <
> indology at list.indology.info> wrote:
>
>> Thank you, Andrew.
>>
>> On 9 July 2017 at 20:09, Andrew Ollett <andrew.ollett at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Gladly:
>>>
>>> 2.  http://www.brill.com/brill-open-0.  Brill also allows for proofs
>>> (not the final publication) to be uploaded on academia.edu.
>>> 3.  No processing fee.
>>>
>>
>> ?One would never expect to pay a processing fee except if the article? is
>> being published OA.  And in that case, yes, Brill charges about ?2000 per
>> article for CC-BY.  See the pricing charts here
>> <http://www.brill.com/about/open-access/brill-open-authors>.
>>
>> A related question is whether, having paid this fee, the author retains
>> copyright and issues the CC-BY license, or whether Brill takes the
>> copyright and the author's money, and they issue the CC-BY license.  The
>> latter is the case with this journal.
>>
>>
>>
>>> 4.  Yes, Brill owns the right, but permissions for reprint are rather
>>> easily granted:  http://www.brill.com/about/policies/rights-permissions
>>>
>>
>> ?I balk at asking permission to photocopy my own articles.  It's just not
>> right.  A more equitable situation is for the author to retain copyright
>> and issue to the publisher a license for them to do specifically what they
>> wish.  See some sample licenses and information here
>> <https://cikitsa.blogspot.co.at/2012/01/copyright-and-open-access.html>.
>>
>> In the past, I have written to Brill saying "no" they can't have my
>> copyright, but that I'm willing to issue them a license.  And to my
>> surprise, they said yes immediately, and sent me a ready-printed license
>> agreement.  The terms weren't great, but at least they knew what I was
>> talking about and were prepared to let me keep copyright of my own work.
>>
>>
>> Sadly, because of the above issues, I personally do not find this new
>> journal offers authors a modern, fair deal.  It's obviously an exciting and
>> intellectually valuable initiative.  But it is a great pity the founding
>> editors did not press Brill harder to offer authors a more liberal deal
>> that respected their rights.
>>
>> Best,
>>
>> Dominik
>>
>> --
>> ?| ?
>> Professor Dominik Wujastyk
>> ? |?
>> ? ?
>> Singhmar Chair in Classical Indian Society and Polit
>> ?y | ?
>> Department of History and Classics
>> <http://historyandclassics.ualberta.ca/>, ?University of Alberta, Canada
>> ? |?
>> ?
>> ?
>> ualberta.Academia.edu/DominikWujastyk
>> ?
>> | ?
>>
>>
>> --
>> Professor Dominik Wujastyk*
>> <http://ualberta.Academia.edu/DominikWujastyk>
>> Singhmar Chair in Classical Indian Society and Polity
>> Department of History and Classics
>> <http://historyandclassics.ualberta.ca/>
>> University of Alberta, Canada
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
>> committee)
>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
>> unsubscribe)
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
> committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
> unsubscribe)
>


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From nagarajpaturi at gmail.com  Sat Aug 26 03:40:20 2017
From: nagarajpaturi at gmail.com (Nagaraj Paturi)
Date: Sat, 26 Aug 17 09:10:20 +0530
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Gita 13.6
In-Reply-To: <CAJGj9ebxMzvg9M0kvowG_BWEcJz8r4pA7+7c3sS0J2mN4Ad4pQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAJGj9eY0XFfrps2+kZqyoF_csAN9gcjC6BF7g5XiYmm8oNju8Q@mail.gmail.com>

Correction;

Prakriti and Purusha; as in saankhya dars'ana, this is the
dynamised/dynamisable and dynamising aspects of creation

not

Prakriti and Purusha; as in saankhya dars'ana, this is the
dynamised/dynamising and dynamising aspects of creation

On Sat, Aug 26, 2017 at 12:37 AM, Nagaraj Paturi <nagarajpaturi at gmail.com>
wrote:

> > My question essentially is: what exactly is the unmanifest aspect of
> the creation?
>
> Dear HR-ji,
>
> Sorry for not being able to get back to you earlier than this.
>
> Answering questions such as "what exactly is the unmanifest aspect of the
> creation?" in a modern context is a little tricky.
>
> We need to be careful not to hastily read the concepts of modern sciences
> into these expressions/ideas of a different space and time; at the same
> time, it may seem easy to take help of some modern understandings as
> analogies, equivalents or modern parlance for these ideas of that space and
> time.
>
> As an analogy, let us take the example of forms of energy such as heat.
> Heat energy is inferred through its effects but is not directly cognised.
> Its effects are vyakta (manifest) but it itself is avyakta (unmanifest).
>
> There are other classifications of creation in Gita:
>
> Prakriti and Purusha; as in saankhya dars'ana, this is the
> dynamised/dynamising and dynamising aspects of creation. For example, the
> body of a living organism that gets left as a corpse after its 'death', is
> Prakriti aspect of nature.  The 'life' that kept it 'alive' while it was
> 'living' is an example for Purusha aspect of nature. The 'life' itself is
> avyakta (unmanifest). Its existence is inferred from the cognisable 'vital'
> functions of the organism.
>
> This idea of Purusha is taken to a viraaT ('cosmic') level as in Purusha
> sUkta.
>
> The self-regulated and self-sustained nature of the cosmos makes it to be
> perceived as 'living' /as organism. This view is what is reflected in
> Purusha Sukta. But its 'life' , like the life of a living organism is
> inferred from its self-regulated, self-sustained,l functions and existence.
> This 'life' of it is avyakta.
>
> On Thu, Aug 24, 2017 at 9:44 PM, Shyam Ranganathan via INDOLOGY <
> indology at list.indology.info> wrote:
>
>> Dear Howard, and all
>>
>> My two cents: Yoga/Bhakti is a procedural theory of ethics. Procedural
>> theories prioritize the right (action, procedure, means) over the good
>> (outcome, end, manifest thing).  The most procedural theory we have in the
>> Western tradition is what the Gita calls "Karma Yoga," ---deontology.
>> According to this there are good things to do (duties) and they are
>> justified by way of procedural considerations, not the ends.
>>
>> Yoga/Bhakti in contrast defines the thing to be done by a procedural
>> ideal---the Lord---and the good as the perfection of this practice. Hence,
>> we shouldn't strive for the good, nor should we justify actions by their
>> outcomes. We should rather understand proper action as an approximation to
>> the Lord which defines the right, and the good automatically follows as a
>> perfection of this practice.  In effect, we instantiate Lordliness as we
>> perfect the practice of devotion to the Lord.
>>
>> As the Lord is a procedural ideal, that is only manifest when we make
>> perfect our devotion to it, it is in abstraction always unmanifest. But it
>> can also become manifest too as a matter of its expression in a world
>> devoted to It.
>> I have written about this in a few articles of late. Here's one:
>>
>> "Bhagavad G?t?: The Dialectic of Four Moral Theories
>> <https://philpapers.org/rec/SHYBGT>"
>>
>> Related to this, and more specifically on Yoga/Bhakti, is:
>>
>> "Pata?jali?s Yoga: Universal Ethics as the Formal Cause of Autonomy
>> <https://philpapers.org/rec/RANPYU-2>"
>>
>> Hope this helps,  and best wishes,
>> Shyam
>>
>> Shyam Ranganathan
>> Department of Philosophy
>> York University, Toronto
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 24/08/2017 11:50 AM, HR via INDOLOGY wrote:
>>
>> Thank you Naturaj-ji.
>>
>> My question essentially is: what exactly is the unmanifest aspect of the
>> creation?
>>
>>
>> On Aug 24, 2017, at 3:53 AM, Nagaraj Paturi <nagarajpaturi at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> Dear HR-ji,
>>
>> If your question is, " Are the 'Avyakta' of 13.6 and 'Avyakta' of  8.18.
>> one and the same?",
>>
>> then the answer is 'No' and 'Yes'
>>
>> No, because the 'avyakta' of 13.6 is the unmanifest aspect /element of
>> the creation during the vyakta phase of the creation.
>>
>> Whereas the  'avyakta' in 8.18 is the avyakta phase of the creation.
>>
>> Yes, because in 8.18 too 'avyakta is an aspect/dimension. In the avyakta
>> phase, only avyakta aspect/dimension remains. All elements like Mahabhutani
>> of 13.6, which exist in a vyakta aspect/dimension of them in the vyakta
>> phase , change into their avyakta aspect/dimension during the avyakta phase.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Aug 24, 2017 at 8:47 AM, Nagaraj Paturi <nagarajpaturi at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Dear HR-ji,
>>>
>>> The two axiomatic principles of Bh G (Bh G time 'Hinduism' ) are :
>>>
>>> n?sat? vidyat? bh?vah n?bh?v? vidyat? satah. Bh G 2-16 (Existence does
>>> not come from non-existence and from existence non-existence does not come;
>>> i.e.,Nothing is created from nothing. Everything is created from something
>>> already in existence..Anything already in existence does not get destroyed)
>>>
>>> and
>>>
>>> (in fact as a corollary of this),
>>>
>>> Time/creation is cyclic.
>>>
>>> Based on these two , all the vyakta does not get destroyed at the end of
>>> a creation /time cycle. Then what happens to the vyakta at that stage? It
>>> withdraws into its avyakta form (because n?bh?v? vidyat? satah) . What
>>> happens later? The new cycle of time/creation begins. What does that mean?
>>> All that is withdrawn into avyakta comes back into vyakta form. (because
>>> n?sat? vidyat? bh?vah)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, Aug 24, 2017 at 4:26 AM, HR via INDOLOGY <
>>> indology at list.indology.info> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Thank you, Nagaraj. I am still trying to grasp more clearly the sense
>>>> of avyakta in verses like 8.18 ?
>>>> avyakt?d vyaktayah sarv?? prabhavanty ahar-?game
>>>>
>>>> How would you define the avyakta as the source of manifest individuals
>>>> (vyaktaya?)?
>>>>
>>>> Howard
>>>>
>>>> On Aug 22, 2017, at 7:17 PM, Nagaraj Paturi <nagarajpaturi at gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Dear HR-ji,
>>>>
>>>> noun not adjective.
>>>>
>>>> Yes, that is what I was about to point out.
>>>>
>>>> In 13.6, it is a part of categories into which the "knowable field" as
>>>> opposed to the "field - knower"  is  divided.
>>>>
>>>> ????????????????? ???????????????? ? ?
>>>> ??????????? ?????? ? ?~??? ??????????????? ? 13\-6?
>>>>
>>>> Similar is its use in 8-18, 8-20
>>>>
>>>> ?????????? ???????? ?????? ???????????????? ?
>>>>
>>>> ??????????? ?????????? ??????????????????? ? 8\-18?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ????????????? ???? ????? ???????? ???????????????? ?
>>>>
>>>> ?? ? ??????? ?????? ???????? ? ???????? ? 8\-20?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> The words element and dimension used by you are very apt.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Interestingly it is both a dimension and element.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Just for analogy, space and time in contemporary Physics are both
>>>> dimensions and components. (Post Einstein, they are components of a
>>>> continuum.)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> mah?bh?t?ni, indriyagoocar?h are part of the vyakta component.
>>>> ahank?rah, buddhih, indriy??i are parts of neither parts of the vyakta nor
>>>> of the avykta.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> This vyakta, avyakta division has its foundations right from the
>>>> rigvedic expressions such as
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> p?d?sya vi?v?bh?t?ni trip?dasy?mr?tam divi.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> v?d?ham?tam puru?am mah?ntam ?dityavar?am tamasah parast?t.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Wed, Aug 23, 2017 at 6:38 AM, HR via INDOLOGY <
>>>> indology at list.indology.info> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Thank you. Actually, avyakta is often used as a straightforward
>>>>> adjective, as in Bg 2.25. My interest here is when avyakta is used as a
>>>>> noun, as in Bg 12.1, or even more to the point, 8.18,20.
>>>>>
>>>>> Howard
>>>>>
>>>>> On Aug 22, 2017, at 4:52 AM, alakendu das <
>>>>> mailmealakendudas at rediffmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Scholar,
>>>>>                  The best way to comprehend Avykta or "The
>>>>> unmanifested"is available in Gita itself.2.26(or may be 27,)says- A
>>>>> chheddyam,Adahhyam,Akleddya,Ashoshya eba cha ,Nitya Sarvagata Sthanu
>>>>> Chalayam ,Sanatana
>>>>> ........Avyaktayam,Achintyam,Avikaryam ucchyate.The concept of
>>>>> Avyakta in our Philosophy is dimensionless,although it
>>>>> is the sole EXISTENCE. The fact that it is dimensionless, can be
>>>>> accessed from this Upanishadic qoute- Ananu,Asthulam,Arhasham,A
>>>>> ..dirgham....etc.," Avyaktam' is the Sumnum Bonum of our Vedanta
>>>>> Philosophy.
>>>>>                      Alakendu Ds
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Sent from RediffmailNG on Android
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> From: HR via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info>
>>>>> Sent: Tue, 22 Aug 2017 08:23:45 GMT+0530
>>>>> To: Indology List <indology at list.indology.info>
>>>>> Subject: [INDOLOGY] Gita 13.6
>>>>>
>>>>> Dear Scholars,
>>>>>
>>>>>    I would appreciate insights on how we might understand the use of
>>>>> ?avyakta,? the ?unmanifest? in the Gita 13.6 and elsewhere as a type of
>>>>> element or dimension of this world.
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>> Howard
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>>>>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>>>>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
>>>>> committee)
>>>>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options
>>>>> or unsubscribe)
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>>>>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>>>>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
>>>>> committee)
>>>>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options
>>>>> or unsubscribe)
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Nagaraj Paturi
>>>>
>>>> Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> BoS, MIT School of Vedic Sciences, Pune, Maharashtra
>>>>
>>>> BoS, Chinmaya Vishwavidyapeeth, Veliyanad, Kerala
>>>>
>>>> Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies
>>>>
>>>> FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of  Liberal Education,
>>>>
>>>> (Pune, Maharashtra, INDIA )
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>>>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>>>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
>>>> committee)
>>>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options
>>>> or unsubscribe)
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Nagaraj Paturi
>>>
>>> Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.
>>>
>>>
>>> BoS, MIT School of Vedic Sciences, Pune, Maharashtra
>>>
>>> BoS, Chinmaya Vishwavidyapeeth, Veliyanad, Kerala
>>>
>>> Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies
>>>
>>> FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of  Liberal Education,
>>>
>>> (Pune, Maharashtra, INDIA )
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Nagaraj Paturi
>>
>> Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.
>>
>>
>> BoS, MIT School of Vedic Sciences, Pune, Maharashtra
>>
>> BoS, Chinmaya Vishwavidyapeeth, Veliyanad, Kerala
>>
>> Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies
>>
>> FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of  Liberal Education,
>>
>> (Pune, Maharashtra, INDIA )
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> INDOLOGY mailing listINDOLOGY at list.indology.infoindology-owner@list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee)http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe)
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> Shyam Ranganathan
>>
>> MA,MA, PhD
>>
>> Department of Philosophy
>>
>> York University, Toronto
>>
>>
>>
>> shyam-ranganathan.info  <http://shyam-ranganathan.info/>
>>
>>
>>
>> *The Bloomsbury Research Handbook of Indian Ethics
>> <http://www.bloomsbury.com/uk/the-bloomsbury-research-handbook-of-indian-ethics-9781472587770/>*
>>
>>
>>
>> *Pata?jali`s Yoga S?tras
>> <http://penguin.co.in/book/classics/patanjalis-yoga-sutra/>* (Translation,
>> Edition and Commentary)
>>
>>
>>
>> *Translating Evaluative Discourse: The Semantics of Thick and Thin
>> Concepts <https://philpapers.org/rec/SHYTED>*
>>
>>
>>
>> Full List, Publications <https://philpapers.org/s/shyam%20ranganathan>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
>> committee)
>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
>> unsubscribe)
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Nagaraj Paturi
>
> Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.
>
>
> BoS, MIT School of Vedic Sciences, Pune, Maharashtra
>
> BoS, Chinmaya Vishwavidyapeeth, Veliyanad, Kerala
>
> Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies
>
> FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of  Liberal Education,
>
> (Pune, Maharashtra, INDIA )
>
>
>
>



-- 
Nagaraj Paturi

Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.


BoS, MIT School of Vedic Sciences, Pune, Maharashtra

BoS, Chinmaya Vishwavidyapeeth, Veliyanad, Kerala

Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies

FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of  Liberal Education,

(Pune, Maharashtra, INDIA )


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From nagarajpaturi at gmail.com  Sat Aug 26 04:17:00 2017
From: nagarajpaturi at gmail.com (Nagaraj Paturi)
Date: Sat, 26 Aug 17 09:47:00 +0530
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Gita 13.6
In-Reply-To: <CAJGj9eY0XFfrps2+kZqyoF_csAN9gcjC6BF7g5XiYmm8oNju8Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAJGj9eYfkwpy+UDjfQYMR_L8vanCkM=VVyG1RNTyYUSUDrpFYQ@mail.gmail.com>

There is yet another classification in Bh G:

Two Purushas classification.

???????? ?????? ???? ???????????? ?? ? ?

????? ??????? ?????? ????????????? ?????? ? 15\-16?


In creation, there are two Purushas. 1. Kshara = perishable ; 2. akshara =
imperishable


The portion made up of all the creatures (living and non-living ) is called
the Kshara Purusha; The *locus mundi * of all the creatures is called the
Akshara Purusha.


The second one, the location of all the creatures,  is only inferred from
the existence of the creatures. All the creatures are Vyakta. Their *l**ocus
mundi *is avyakta.


*---------------------------------------------------------------------------------*


In modern times, (particularly in Physics and Chemistry or Physical
Sciences), Creation is divided into Matter and Energy.


Matter is manifest. Energy is unmanifest while its effects are manifest.
To use the Bh G terms , we can say, Matter is vyakta. Energy is avyakta
while its effects are vyakta.


BhG's vyakta-avyakta classification of creation is similar to but not the
same as this.




On Sat, Aug 26, 2017 at 9:10 AM, Nagaraj Paturi <nagarajpaturi at gmail.com>
wrote:

> Correction;
>
> Prakriti and Purusha; as in saankhya dars'ana, this is the
> dynamised/dynamisable and dynamising aspects of creation
>
> not
>
> Prakriti and Purusha; as in saankhya dars'ana, this is the
> dynamised/dynamising and dynamising aspects of creation
>
> On Sat, Aug 26, 2017 at 12:37 AM, Nagaraj Paturi <nagarajpaturi at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> > My question essentially is: what exactly is the unmanifest aspect of
>> the creation?
>>
>> Dear HR-ji,
>>
>> Sorry for not being able to get back to you earlier than this.
>>
>> Answering questions such as "what exactly is the unmanifest aspect of the
>> creation?" in a modern context is a little tricky.
>>
>> We need to be careful not to hastily read the concepts of modern sciences
>> into these expressions/ideas of a different space and time; at the same
>> time, it may seem easy to take help of some modern understandings as
>> analogies, equivalents or modern parlance for these ideas of that space and
>> time.
>>
>> As an analogy, let us take the example of forms of energy such as heat.
>> Heat energy is inferred through its effects but is not directly cognised.
>> Its effects are vyakta (manifest) but it itself is avyakta (unmanifest).
>>
>> There are other classifications of creation in Gita:
>>
>> Prakriti and Purusha; as in saankhya dars'ana, this is the
>> dynamised/dynamising and dynamising aspects of creation. For example, the
>> body of a living organism that gets left as a corpse after its 'death', is
>> Prakriti aspect of nature.  The 'life' that kept it 'alive' while it was
>> 'living' is an example for Purusha aspect of nature. The 'life' itself is
>> avyakta (unmanifest). Its existence is inferred from the cognisable 'vital'
>> functions of the organism.
>>
>> This idea of Purusha is taken to a viraaT ('cosmic') level as in Purusha
>> sUkta.
>>
>> The self-regulated and self-sustained nature of the cosmos makes it to be
>> perceived as 'living' /as organism. This view is what is reflected in
>> Purusha Sukta. But its 'life' , like the life of a living organism is
>> inferred from its self-regulated, self-sustained,l functions and existence.
>> This 'life' of it is avyakta.
>>
>> On Thu, Aug 24, 2017 at 9:44 PM, Shyam Ranganathan via INDOLOGY <
>> indology at list.indology.info> wrote:
>>
>>> Dear Howard, and all
>>>
>>> My two cents: Yoga/Bhakti is a procedural theory of ethics. Procedural
>>> theories prioritize the right (action, procedure, means) over the good
>>> (outcome, end, manifest thing).  The most procedural theory we have in the
>>> Western tradition is what the Gita calls "Karma Yoga," ---deontology.
>>> According to this there are good things to do (duties) and they are
>>> justified by way of procedural considerations, not the ends.
>>>
>>> Yoga/Bhakti in contrast defines the thing to be done by a procedural
>>> ideal---the Lord---and the good as the perfection of this practice. Hence,
>>> we shouldn't strive for the good, nor should we justify actions by their
>>> outcomes. We should rather understand proper action as an approximation to
>>> the Lord which defines the right, and the good automatically follows as a
>>> perfection of this practice.  In effect, we instantiate Lordliness as we
>>> perfect the practice of devotion to the Lord.
>>>
>>> As the Lord is a procedural ideal, that is only manifest when we make
>>> perfect our devotion to it, it is in abstraction always unmanifest. But it
>>> can also become manifest too as a matter of its expression in a world
>>> devoted to It.
>>> I have written about this in a few articles of late. Here's one:
>>>
>>> "Bhagavad G?t?: The Dialectic of Four Moral Theories
>>> <https://philpapers.org/rec/SHYBGT>"
>>>
>>> Related to this, and more specifically on Yoga/Bhakti, is:
>>>
>>> "Pata?jali?s Yoga: Universal Ethics as the Formal Cause of Autonomy
>>> <https://philpapers.org/rec/RANPYU-2>"
>>>
>>> Hope this helps,  and best wishes,
>>> Shyam
>>>
>>> Shyam Ranganathan
>>> Department of Philosophy
>>> York University, Toronto
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 24/08/2017 11:50 AM, HR via INDOLOGY wrote:
>>>
>>> Thank you Naturaj-ji.
>>>
>>> My question essentially is: what exactly is the unmanifest aspect of the
>>> creation?
>>>
>>>
>>> On Aug 24, 2017, at 3:53 AM, Nagaraj Paturi <nagarajpaturi at gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Dear HR-ji,
>>>
>>> If your question is, " Are the 'Avyakta' of 13.6 and 'Avyakta' of  8.18.
>>> one and the same?",
>>>
>>> then the answer is 'No' and 'Yes'
>>>
>>> No, because the 'avyakta' of 13.6 is the unmanifest aspect /element of
>>> the creation during the vyakta phase of the creation.
>>>
>>> Whereas the  'avyakta' in 8.18 is the avyakta phase of the creation.
>>>
>>> Yes, because in 8.18 too 'avyakta is an aspect/dimension. In the avyakta
>>> phase, only avyakta aspect/dimension remains. All elements like Mahabhutani
>>> of 13.6, which exist in a vyakta aspect/dimension of them in the vyakta
>>> phase , change into their avyakta aspect/dimension during the avyakta phase.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, Aug 24, 2017 at 8:47 AM, Nagaraj Paturi <nagarajpaturi at gmail.com
>>> > wrote:
>>>
>>>> Dear HR-ji,
>>>>
>>>> The two axiomatic principles of Bh G (Bh G time 'Hinduism' ) are :
>>>>
>>>> n?sat? vidyat? bh?vah n?bh?v? vidyat? satah. Bh G 2-16 (Existence does
>>>> not come from non-existence and from existence non-existence does not come;
>>>> i.e.,Nothing is created from nothing. Everything is created from something
>>>> already in existence..Anything already in existence does not get destroyed)
>>>>
>>>> and
>>>>
>>>> (in fact as a corollary of this),
>>>>
>>>> Time/creation is cyclic.
>>>>
>>>> Based on these two , all the vyakta does not get destroyed at the end
>>>> of a creation /time cycle. Then what happens to the vyakta at that stage?
>>>> It withdraws into its avyakta form (because n?bh?v? vidyat? satah) . What
>>>> happens later? The new cycle of time/creation begins. What does that mean?
>>>> All that is withdrawn into avyakta comes back into vyakta form. (because
>>>> n?sat? vidyat? bh?vah)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Thu, Aug 24, 2017 at 4:26 AM, HR via INDOLOGY <
>>>> indology at list.indology.info> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Thank you, Nagaraj. I am still trying to grasp more clearly the sense
>>>>> of avyakta in verses like 8.18 ?
>>>>> avyakt?d vyaktayah sarv?? prabhavanty ahar-?game
>>>>>
>>>>> How would you define the avyakta as the source of manifest individuals
>>>>> (vyaktaya?)?
>>>>>
>>>>> Howard
>>>>>
>>>>> On Aug 22, 2017, at 7:17 PM, Nagaraj Paturi <nagarajpaturi at gmail.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Dear HR-ji,
>>>>>
>>>>> noun not adjective.
>>>>>
>>>>> Yes, that is what I was about to point out.
>>>>>
>>>>> In 13.6, it is a part of categories into which the "knowable field" as
>>>>> opposed to the "field - knower"  is  divided.
>>>>>
>>>>> ????????????????? ???????????????? ? ?
>>>>> ??????????? ?????? ? ?~??? ??????????????? ? 13\-6?
>>>>>
>>>>> Similar is its use in 8-18, 8-20
>>>>>
>>>>> ?????????? ???????? ?????? ???????????????? ?
>>>>>
>>>>> ??????????? ?????????? ??????????????????? ? 8\-18?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ????????????? ???? ????? ???????? ???????????????? ?
>>>>>
>>>>> ?? ? ??????? ?????? ???????? ? ???????? ? 8\-20?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> The words element and dimension used by you are very apt.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Interestingly it is both a dimension and element.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Just for analogy, space and time in contemporary Physics are both
>>>>> dimensions and components. (Post Einstein, they are components of a
>>>>> continuum.)
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> mah?bh?t?ni, indriyagoocar?h are part of the vyakta component.
>>>>> ahank?rah, buddhih, indriy??i are parts of neither parts of the vyakta nor
>>>>> of the avykta.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> This vyakta, avyakta division has its foundations right from the
>>>>> rigvedic expressions such as
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> p?d?sya vi?v?bh?t?ni trip?dasy?mr?tam divi.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> v?d?ham?tam puru?am mah?ntam ?dityavar?am tamasah parast?t.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Wed, Aug 23, 2017 at 6:38 AM, HR via INDOLOGY <
>>>>> indology at list.indology.info> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Thank you. Actually, avyakta is often used as a straightforward
>>>>>> adjective, as in Bg 2.25. My interest here is when avyakta is used as a
>>>>>> noun, as in Bg 12.1, or even more to the point, 8.18,20.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Howard
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Aug 22, 2017, at 4:52 AM, alakendu das <
>>>>>> mailmealakendudas at rediffmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Scholar,
>>>>>>                  The best way to comprehend Avykta or "The
>>>>>> unmanifested"is available in Gita itself.2.26(or may be 27,)says- A
>>>>>> chheddyam,Adahhyam,Akleddya,Ashoshya eba cha ,Nitya Sarvagata Sthanu
>>>>>> Chalayam ,Sanatana
>>>>>> ........Avyaktayam,Achintyam,Avikaryam ucchyate.The concept of
>>>>>> Avyakta in our Philosophy is dimensionless,although it
>>>>>> is the sole EXISTENCE. The fact that it is dimensionless, can be
>>>>>> accessed from this Upanishadic qoute- Ananu,Asthulam,Arhasham,A
>>>>>> ..dirgham....etc.," Avyaktam' is the Sumnum Bonum of our Vedanta
>>>>>> Philosophy.
>>>>>>                      Alakendu Ds
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Sent from RediffmailNG on Android
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> From: HR via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info>
>>>>>> Sent: Tue, 22 Aug 2017 08:23:45 GMT+0530
>>>>>> To: Indology List <indology at list.indology.info>
>>>>>> Subject: [INDOLOGY] Gita 13.6
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Dear Scholars,
>>>>>>
>>>>>>    I would appreciate insights on how we might understand the use of
>>>>>> ?avyakta,? the ?unmanifest? in the Gita 13.6 and elsewhere as a type of
>>>>>> element or dimension of this world.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>> Howard
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>>>>>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>>>>>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
>>>>>> committee)
>>>>>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list
>>>>>> options or unsubscribe)
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>>>>>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>>>>>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
>>>>>> committee)
>>>>>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list
>>>>>> options or unsubscribe)
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Nagaraj Paturi
>>>>>
>>>>> Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> BoS, MIT School of Vedic Sciences, Pune, Maharashtra
>>>>>
>>>>> BoS, Chinmaya Vishwavidyapeeth, Veliyanad, Kerala
>>>>>
>>>>> Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies
>>>>>
>>>>> FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of  Liberal Education,
>>>>>
>>>>> (Pune, Maharashtra, INDIA )
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>>>>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>>>>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
>>>>> committee)
>>>>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options
>>>>> or unsubscribe)
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Nagaraj Paturi
>>>>
>>>> Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> BoS, MIT School of Vedic Sciences, Pune, Maharashtra
>>>>
>>>> BoS, Chinmaya Vishwavidyapeeth, Veliyanad, Kerala
>>>>
>>>> Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies
>>>>
>>>> FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of  Liberal Education,
>>>>
>>>> (Pune, Maharashtra, INDIA )
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Nagaraj Paturi
>>>
>>> Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.
>>>
>>>
>>> BoS, MIT School of Vedic Sciences, Pune, Maharashtra
>>>
>>> BoS, Chinmaya Vishwavidyapeeth, Veliyanad, Kerala
>>>
>>> Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies
>>>
>>> FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of  Liberal Education,
>>>
>>> (Pune, Maharashtra, INDIA )
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> INDOLOGY mailing listINDOLOGY at list.indology.infoindology-owner@list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee)http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe)
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>> Shyam Ranganathan
>>>
>>> MA,MA, PhD
>>>
>>> Department of Philosophy
>>>
>>> York University, Toronto
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> shyam-ranganathan.info  <http://shyam-ranganathan.info/>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *The Bloomsbury Research Handbook of Indian Ethics
>>> <http://www.bloomsbury.com/uk/the-bloomsbury-research-handbook-of-indian-ethics-9781472587770/>*
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *Pata?jali`s Yoga S?tras
>>> <http://penguin.co.in/book/classics/patanjalis-yoga-sutra/>* (Translation,
>>> Edition and Commentary)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *Translating Evaluative Discourse: The Semantics of Thick and Thin
>>> Concepts <https://philpapers.org/rec/SHYTED>*
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Full List, Publications <https://philpapers.org/s/shyam%20ranganathan>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
>>> committee)
>>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options
>>> or unsubscribe)
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Nagaraj Paturi
>>
>> Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.
>>
>>
>> BoS, MIT School of Vedic Sciences, Pune, Maharashtra
>>
>> BoS, Chinmaya Vishwavidyapeeth, Veliyanad, Kerala
>>
>> Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies
>>
>> FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of  Liberal Education,
>>
>> (Pune, Maharashtra, INDIA )
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Nagaraj Paturi
>
> Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.
>
>
> BoS, MIT School of Vedic Sciences, Pune, Maharashtra
>
> BoS, Chinmaya Vishwavidyapeeth, Veliyanad, Kerala
>
> Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies
>
> FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of  Liberal Education,
>
> (Pune, Maharashtra, INDIA )
>
>
>
>



-- 
Nagaraj Paturi

Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.


BoS, MIT School of Vedic Sciences, Pune, Maharashtra

BoS, Chinmaya Vishwavidyapeeth, Veliyanad, Kerala

Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies

FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of  Liberal Education,

(Pune, Maharashtra, INDIA )


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From zysk at hum.ku.dk  Sat Aug 26 08:17:01 2017
From: zysk at hum.ku.dk (Kenneth Gregory Zysk)
Date: Sat, 26 Aug 17 08:17:01 +0000
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Gilgit mss 3.2
Message-ID: <363679393C2EB44480CDA76B2F23C9F760A8C33B@P2KITMBX06WC03.unicph.domain>

Would someone have a pdf verison of Dutt's Gilgit Manuscripts, vol. 3.2?
Many thanks.
Ken

Kenneth Zysk, PhD, DPhil
Head of Indology
Department of Cross-Cultural and Regional Studies
University of Copenhagen
1 Karen Blixens Vej, Bygn. 10,
DK-2300 Copenhagen S    Denmark
Ph:  +45 3532 8951                          Email: zysk at hum.ku.dk<mailto:zysk at hum.ku.dk>



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From mmdesh at umich.edu  Sat Aug 26 11:26:01 2017
From: mmdesh at umich.edu (Madhav Deshpande)
Date: Sat, 26 Aug 17 07:26:01 -0400
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Grammar of the Jain phrase
Message-ID: <CAB3-dzdhqCKiywU-fgDicA0Cqo8+V1HTxhu7o1K0JWp3kA4j_Q@mail.gmail.com>

Dear Colleagues,

     Someone recently asked me the meaning of the Jain phrase "micch?mi
dukka?am".  On most of the web sources, the explanation is given like this:
micch? mi dukka?am (Skt. mithy? me du?kr?tam) meaning "May my evil deed be
ineffective".  I am wondering whether micch?mi in this phrase is originally
"m?+icch?mi" and the phrase meaning: "May I not wish evil."  In several
textual contexts, micch?mi occurs with other first person singular verbs
like kh?memi: ???????? ???????? ?????? ???? ????, ????? ???? ????? ???  I
will appreciate any light that our Prakrit scholars can shed on this.  With
best wishes,

Madhav Deshpande


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From emstern1948 at gmail.com  Sat Aug 26 16:51:36 2017
From: emstern1948 at gmail.com (Elliot Stern)
Date: Sat, 26 Aug 17 12:51:36 -0400
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Gilgit mss 3.2
In-Reply-To: <363679393C2EB44480CDA76B2F23C9F760A8C33B@P2KITMBX06WC03.unicph.domain>
Message-ID: <BC5A79BC-60AC-4491-A7AE-A2BF90E5B462@gmail.com>

I just uploaded the pdf to: https://www.dropbox.com/s/7dnuz7xmj36ifj2/Gilgit%20manuscripts%20vol3pt2.pdf?dl=0 <https://www.dropbox.com/s/7dnuz7xmj36ifj2/Gilgit%20manuscripts%20vol3pt2.pdf?dl=0>


Elliot

> On 26 Aug  2017, at 04:17, Kenneth Gregory Zysk via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info> wrote:
> 
> Would someone have a pdf verison of Dutt?s Gilgit Manuscripts, vol. 3.2?
> Many thanks.
> Ken
>  
> Kenneth Zysk, PhD, DPhil
> Head of Indology
> Department of Cross-Cultural and Regional Studies
> University of Copenhagen
> 1 Karen Blixens Vej, Bygn. 10,
> DK-2300 Copenhagen S    Denmark
> Ph:  +45 3532 8951                          Email:zysk at hum.ku.dk <mailto:zysk at hum.ku.dk>
>  
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info <mailto:INDOLOGY at list.indology.info>
> indology-owner at list.indology.info <mailto:indology-owner at list.indology.info> (messages to the list's managing committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info <http://listinfo.indology.info/> (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe)



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From mrinalkaul81 at gmail.com  Sat Aug 26 17:58:37 2017
From: mrinalkaul81 at gmail.com (Mrinal Kaul)
Date: Sat, 26 Aug 17 23:28:37 +0530
Subject: [INDOLOGY] PDF Copy of "Philosophical Implications of Dhvani"
Message-ID: <CAJz4T_4kcEhOe+Vun+qu2+CS9ooRo5Ruf8hyAPwFs+K7QCh1bw@mail.gmail.com>

Dear Friends,

I am not sure if I should be asking for this since the title is
not published too long ago. In fact I have my personal copy, but it is too
far away from me (in my home-library). But I am still taking a chance and
wondering if someone might have a PDF of the following title:


*Philosophical Implications of Dhvani: Experience of Symbol Language in
Indian Aesthetics, Anand Amaladass, Indologisches Institut der Universit?t
Wien, 1984.*

I should be grateful if someone can share off-list.

Thanks and best wishes.

Mrinal


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From emstern1948 at gmail.com  Sat Aug 26 18:43:51 2017
From: emstern1948 at gmail.com (Elliot Stern)
Date: Sat, 26 Aug 17 14:43:51 -0400
Subject: [INDOLOGY] request for pdf of journal article
Message-ID: <9AAF5CE9-C524-4AFD-82DE-1A05792171E1@gmail.com>

I?m looking for a pdf of an article by Jan Sz. Otrebski in Lingua Posnaniensis 5. Manfred Mayrhofer mentions in Kurzgefasstes Etymologisches W?rterbuch des Altindischen, that Otrebski argued on page 174 against connection with Lithuanian spangus and Serbo-Croatian bangav. Unfortunately, I cannot trace the name of the article. The publication date was probably in the 1950s.

Thank you all in advance.

Elliot


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From emstern1948 at gmail.com  Sat Aug 26 19:09:47 2017
From: emstern1948 at gmail.com (Elliot Stern)
Date: Sat, 26 Aug 17 15:09:47 -0400
Subject: [INDOLOGY] request for pdf of journal article
In-Reply-To: <9AAF5CE9-C524-4AFD-82DE-1A05792171E1@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <3B239996-0AE1-44CC-B7AB-440CB54F5A38@gmail.com>

Clarification: against connection of Sanskrit pa?gu...

> On 26 Aug  2017, at 14:43, Elliot Stern <emstern1948 at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> I?m looking for a pdf of an article by Jan Sz. Otrebski in Lingua Posnaniensis 5. Manfred Mayrhofer mentions in Kurzgefasstes Etymologisches W?rterbuch des Altindischen, that Otrebski argued on page 174 against connection with Lithuanian spangus and Serbo-Croatian bangav. Unfortunately, I cannot trace the name of the article. The publication date was probably in the 1950s.
> 
> Thank you all in advance.
> 
> Elliot



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From wujastyk at gmail.com  Sat Aug 26 20:06:05 2017
From: wujastyk at gmail.com (Dominik Wujastyk)
Date: Sat, 26 Aug 17 14:06:05 -0600
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Starting a new academic journal
In-Reply-To: <CAKdt-Cfs3o0r1euQLpY5CKDY-QS-KAA+F9x4CPyjD3_ggkR6Vg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAKdt-CfTjxtKCPqNT9nMQRQMNgiYC-MxArzX0p=mDzxAAeZiyw@mail.gmail.com>

For those interested in digging into the contemporary debate on these
issues, Ithaka published an interesting report ten days ago, Red Light, Green
Light
<http://www.sr.ithaka.org/publications/red-light-green-light-licensing/?cid=eml_sr_redgreen_brief_08_2017&utm_term=READ%20THE%20BRIEF&utm_campaign=eml_sr_redgreen_brief_08_2017&utm_content=email&utm_source=Act-On+Software&utm_medium=email>Aligning
the Library to Support Licensing
<http://www.sr.ithaka.org/publications/red-light-green-light-licensing/?cid=eml_sr_redgreen_brief_08_2017&utm_term=READ%20THE%20BRIEF&utm_campaign=eml_sr_redgreen_brief_08_2017&utm_content=email&utm_source=Act-On+Software&utm_medium=email>,
by Roger Schonfeld.

?
--
Professor Dominik Wujastyk <http://ualberta.academia.edu/DominikWujastyk>
?,?

Singhmar Chair in Classical Indian Society and Polity
?,?

Department of History and Classics <http://historyandclassics.ualberta.ca/>
?,?
University of Alberta, Canada
?.?

South Asia at the U of A:

?sas.ualberta.ca?
??


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From zysk at hum.ku.dk  Sun Aug 27 07:02:27 2017
From: zysk at hum.ku.dk (Kenneth Gregory Zysk)
Date: Sun, 27 Aug 17 07:02:27 +0000
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Gilgit mss 3.2
In-Reply-To: <BC5A79BC-60AC-4491-A7AE-A2BF90E5B462@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <363679393C2EB44480CDA76B2F23C9F760A8C4D2@P2KITMBX06WC03.unicph.domain>

Dear Eliot,
Many thanks for the copy.
Best,
Ken

From: Elliot Stern [mailto:emstern1948 at gmail.com]
Sent: 26. august 2017 18:52
To: Kenneth Gregory Zysk
Cc: Indology Indology listserve
Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] Gilgit mss 3.2

I just uploaded the pdf to: https://www.dropbox.com/s/7dnuz7xmj36ifj2/Gilgit%20manuscripts%20vol3pt2.pdf?dl=0


Elliot

On 26 Aug  2017, at 04:17, Kenneth Gregory Zysk via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info<mailto:indology at list.indology.info>> wrote:

Would someone have a pdf verison of Dutt?s Gilgit Manuscripts, vol. 3.2?
Many thanks.
Ken

Kenneth Zysk, PhD, DPhil
Head of Indology
Department of Cross-Cultural and Regional Studies
University of Copenhagen
1 Karen Blixens Vej, Bygn. 10,
DK-2300 Copenhagen S    Denmark
Ph:  +45 3532 8951                          Email:zysk at hum.ku.dk<mailto:zysk at hum.ku.dk>

_______________________________________________
INDOLOGY mailing list
INDOLOGY at list.indology.info<mailto:INDOLOGY at list.indology.info>
indology-owner at list.indology.info<mailto:indology-owner at list.indology.info> (messages to the list's managing committee)
http://listinfo.indology.info<http://listinfo.indology.info/> (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe)



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From lavanyavemsani at gmail.com  Mon Aug 28 00:42:02 2017
From: lavanyavemsani at gmail.com (Lavanya Vemsani)
Date: Sun, 27 Aug 17 20:42:02 -0400
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Call for Papers: American Journal of Indic Studies
Message-ID: <28DD9CBF-AF3E-40A2-B5B6-ADB22B6D52DF@gmail.com>

Dear Esteemed Colleagues and friends, 
Included here is the Call for Papers for the first issue of American Journal of Indic Studies. Please note the new deadline for paper submissions. 
Please do not hesitate to contact me if you have any questions. 
Thank you. 
Lavanya 


Lavanya Vemsani 
Ph.D (History) Ph.D. (Religious Studies)
Professor, Dept. of Social Sciences
Shawnee State University 
Portsmouth OH 45662
Phone: 740-351-3233
Co-founder, American Academy of Indic Studies 
Editor-in-Chief 
American Journal of Indic Studies

Call for papers
American Journal of Indic Studies
ISSN 2573-1939
Submissions open for the Inaugural Issue Volume 1 No 1
 
American Journal of Indic Studies (AJIS) is a peer-reviewed academic journal published by the American Academy of Indic Studies (AAIS)(http://aaindicstudies.org/publication/)
 
AJIS invites academic papers on all aspects of Indic studies broadly defined for publication in Volume 1 Number 1 and its subsequent issues. AJIS publishes papers that call attention to the meanings and applications of Indic categories, which have typically been under-represented in the academic study of Indic civilization. AJIS invites papers that analyze specific theoretical and methodological issues within Indic studies across academic disciplines. AJIS also welcomes papers that place Indic categories and explanatory models in conversation with western theoretical and methodological models in order to deepen and expand scholarly knowledge of Indic civilization. Interactions and relationships of western and non-western studies on contemporary and classical Indic civilization are also considered for publication. 
 
Papers on all aspects of Indic Studies, and their interdisciplinary studies in all of the disciplines of Humanities, Social Sciences, Education, Public Affairs, and other Interdisciplinary areas including (but not limited to) Anthropology, Archaeology, Arts and Art History, DiasporaStudies, Ethical Thought, Ecological & Environmental Studies, Film Studies, Gender Studies, History & Culture, Human Geography, India-America relations, Indic Elements & Hindu-Buddhist relations in Asia, Languages& Linguistics, Media Studies, Philosophy, Politics & Public Administration, Religious Studies, Social Work, and Sociology will be considered for publication.
 
American Journal of Indic Studies publishes original papers, reflection papers, theoretical & conceptual frameworks, analytical & empirical research, applied research & field notes, and book & film reviews.
 
Please send your latest books for review to our review editor Dr. Sudershan Pasupuleti at sudershan.pasupuleti at utrgv.edu
 
Date of Publishing: AJIS is inviting papers for Vol. 1 No. 1 scheduled to be published in Spring 2018.
Submission deadline: December 28, 2017.
 
Contributions for subsequent volumes will be accepted on a rolling basis and considered on a first-come-first-serve basis for the next available upcoming volume. Please include brief bio with your submission. Send your manuscript and questions to Dr. Lavanya Vemsani at: editor at AAIndicStudies.org
 
Editorial Advisor:
Arvind Sharma
 
Executive Editor:
Pankaj Jain
 
Editor-in-Chief:
Lavanya Vemsani
 
Editorial Ombudsman:
Jeffery D. Long
 
Assistant Editor:
Anjali Kanojia
 
Book Review Editor:
Sudershan Pasupuleti
 
Editorial Board:
Amarjiva Lochan
Antoinette DeNapoli
Antonio de Nicolas
Anup Kumar
Bharat Gupt
Brij Mohan
George Cardona
Harsha Dehejia
Jim G. Shaffer
Madhu Khanna
Makarand Paranjape
Mandakranta Bose
Peter Scharf
Radhakrishnan Pillai
Rajakumari Shankar
Rajeshwari Pandharipande
Rama Rao Pappu
Rana P. B. Singh
Ravindra D. Prasad
Rayson K. Alex
Robert Thurman
Sangeetha Menon
Stephen Phillips
Varadaraja Raman


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From mailmealakendudas at rediffmail.com  Mon Aug 28 07:12:53 2017
From: mailmealakendudas at rediffmail.com (alakendu das)
Date: Mon, 28 Aug 17 07:12:53 +0000
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Gita 13.6
In-Reply-To: <66100b9a-df01-5625-259c-58200f437015@yorku.ca>
Message-ID: <1503676283.S.35074.16878.f4-234-160.1503904373.14009@webmail.rediffmail.com>



   Dr.Ranganathan,

                    I apologise for responding  a bit late to your mail owing to connectivity 

problems.

             With respect to my mail on the 25th, I would  humbly put in a few words . I never 

intended to state  that the whole of SmGita is identical with  the whole of Kantian 

philosophy....I am equally unsure of the fact whether the whole of  Gita can be at all  

identified with Kantian ideals I just referred to  SAMKHYA Yog and KARMA YOG( illustrated with 

Slokas) as those which have identity with  De-ontology  and hence with Kant as well.( I am 

equally aware of the fact that De-ontology is not the whole of Kantianism)  I believe some of 

the word I used, gave you a wrong impression.



                                         Thank you for your mail.



                      Regards,

                                                                      ALAKENDU DAS.

 

                                


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From andrew.ollett at gmail.com  Mon Aug 28 17:48:59 2017
From: andrew.ollett at gmail.com (Andrew Ollett)
Date: Mon, 28 Aug 17 13:48:59 -0400
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Grammar of the Jain phrase
In-Reply-To: <CAB3-dzdhqCKiywU-fgDicA0Cqo8+V1HTxhu7o1K0JWp3kA4j_Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAANHO15jRER14chQKkLyLoJtzWJTciXeWTz0RTJ-F0NTNSa45w@mail.gmail.com>

Interesting suggestion. It is possible for m? + icch?mi to be micch?mi in
Ardham?gadh? (or pseudo-Ardham?gadh?) because lopa-sandhi is common in such
contexts (see Pischel ?158), but since the phrase occurs in the context of
the pratikrama?a, and in a few cases specifically refers to the evil of an
already-committed transgression (ja? kha??iya? ja? vir?hiya? tassa micch?
mi dukka?a?), it seems more natural to me to read it in the traditional way
rather than as a resolution not to desire evil deeds in the future.

2017-08-26 7:26 GMT-04:00 Madhav Deshpande via INDOLOGY <
indology at list.indology.info>:

> Dear Colleagues,
>
>      Someone recently asked me the meaning of the Jain phrase "micch?mi
> dukka?am".  On most of the web sources, the explanation is given like this:
> micch? mi dukka?am (Skt. mithy? me du?kr?tam) meaning "May my evil deed be
> ineffective".  I am wondering whether micch?mi in this phrase is originally
> "m?+icch?mi" and the phrase meaning: "May I not wish evil."  In several
> textual contexts, micch?mi occurs with other first person singular verbs
> like kh?memi: ???????? ???????? ?????? ???? ????, ????? ???? ????? ???  I
> will appreciate any light that our Prakrit scholars can shed on this.  With
> best wishes,
>
> Madhav Deshpande
>
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
> committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
> unsubscribe)
>


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From mmdesh at umich.edu  Mon Aug 28 18:36:35 2017
From: mmdesh at umich.edu (Madhav Deshpande)
Date: Mon, 28 Aug 17 14:36:35 -0400
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Grammar of the Jain phrase
In-Reply-To: <CAANHO15jRER14chQKkLyLoJtzWJTciXeWTz0RTJ-F0NTNSa45w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAB3-dzfZuZPzsmtXniWZMKCqnztOHqX8zYq=sh4+YPLdqm+bOA@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Andrew,

     Thanks for your explanation, and providing a textual context for this
phrase.  Is "mi" as a genitive form found elsewhere?  Ghatage's
Introduction to Ardhamagadhi (p. 117) does not list such a form in the
paradigm of the first person pronoun (attached).  But Pischel's Comparative
Grammar of the Prakrit Languages does list "mi" as one of the alternative
forms for accusative, instrumental and genitive.  Would like to know some
other instances of the use of "mi".

Madhav



On Mon, Aug 28, 2017 at 1:48 PM, Andrew Ollett <andrew.ollett at gmail.com>
wrote:

> Interesting suggestion. It is possible for m? + icch?mi to be micch?mi in
> Ardham?gadh? (or pseudo-Ardham?gadh?) because lopa-sandhi is common in such
> contexts (see Pischel ?158), but since the phrase occurs in the context of
> the pratikrama?a, and in a few cases specifically refers to the evil of an
> already-committed transgression (ja? kha??iya? ja? vir?hiya? tassa micch?
> mi dukka?a?), it seems more natural to me to read it in the traditional way
> rather than as a resolution not to desire evil deeds in the future.
>
> 2017-08-26 7:26 GMT-04:00 Madhav Deshpande via INDOLOGY <
> indology at list.indology.info>:
>
>> Dear Colleagues,
>>
>>      Someone recently asked me the meaning of the Jain phrase "micch?mi
>> dukka?am".  On most of the web sources, the explanation is given like this:
>> micch? mi dukka?am (Skt. mithy? me du?kr?tam) meaning "May my evil deed be
>> ineffective".  I am wondering whether micch?mi in this phrase is originally
>> "m?+icch?mi" and the phrase meaning: "May I not wish evil."  In several
>> textual contexts, micch?mi occurs with other first person singular verbs
>> like kh?memi: ???????? ???????? ?????? ???? ????, ????? ???? ????? ???
>>  I will appreciate any light that our Prakrit scholars can shed on this.
>> With best wishes,
>>
>> Madhav Deshpande
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
>> committee)
>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
>> unsubscribe)
>>
>
>


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From krishnaprasadah.g at gmail.com  Mon Aug 28 19:34:31 2017
From: krishnaprasadah.g at gmail.com (Krishnaprasad G)
Date: Tue, 29 Aug 17 01:04:31 +0530
Subject: =?utf-8?B?W0lORE9MT0dZXSBSaXZlciDgpJXgpL7gpK/gpJXgpYHgpJ/gpYA=?=
In-Reply-To: <CAODNnZhyrJrM53q9_ZsTaii+K_1RYfaj0wW6SHK6awEAKAtw+A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAODNnZjdEEfZ-cUR7VSRjh6Brq=d0sSBxonRgPqjWwGYWs3cZw@mail.gmail.com>

Dear all

In Raghuvamsa 6th Canto and Verse 58 or 59
???????????? ?????? ???? first foot says about Nagapura or Uragapura
Mallinatha explains as ??????????????????????????? but this seems to be a
mistake as Kanouj is on the North of India , whereas the poet in further
verses clearly places it on the south.

And on further search I found Arunagirinatha and Narayana in the commentary
to the above mentioned verse give the details as the place  in the bank of
the river ???????
?????????? ??????? ??? ??? ??????? ??????? ???? ???????????...

Does any one knows about this river or its modern name kindly inform.

I also believe that even Mallinatha has written ??????? as the name is not
famous that must be due to ??????????? scribal error occurred
Thanks


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From krishnaprasadah.g at gmail.com  Mon Aug 28 19:41:51 2017
From: krishnaprasadah.g at gmail.com (Krishnaprasad G)
Date: Tue, 29 Aug 17 01:11:51 +0530
Subject: =?utf-8?B?UmU6IFtJTkRPTE9HWV0gUml2ZXIg4KSV4KS+4KSv4KSV4KWB4KSf4KWA?=
In-Reply-To: <CAODNnZjdEEfZ-cUR7VSRjh6Brq=d0sSBxonRgPqjWwGYWs3cZw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAODNnZj=UGZhv-aw3zHAU99W01V22z1GfAxMo6nt_E4MpbdgQA@mail.gmail.com>

Correction :
Not ???????

On 29-Aug-2017 1:04 AM, "Krishnaprasad G" <krishnaprasadah.g at gmail.com>
wrote:

> Dear all
>
> In Raghuvamsa 6th Canto and Verse 58 or 59
> ???????????? ?????? ???? first foot says about Nagapura or Uragapura
> Mallinatha explains as ??????????????????????????? but this seems to be a
> mistake as Kanouj is on the North of India , whereas the poet in further
> verses clearly places it on the south.
>
> And on further search I found Arunagirinatha and Narayana in the
> commentary to the above mentioned verse give the details as the place  in
> the bank of the river ???????
> ?????????? ??????? ??? ??? ??????? ??????? ???? ???????????...
>
> Does any one knows about this river or its modern name kindly inform.
>
> I also believe that even Mallinatha has written ??????? as the name is not
> famous that must be due to ??????????? scribal error occurred
> Thanks
>


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From birgit.kellner at oeaw.ac.at  Tue Aug 29 07:57:29 2017
From: birgit.kellner at oeaw.ac.at (Birgit Kellner)
Date: Tue, 29 Aug 17 09:57:29 +0200
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Fwd: The Robert H. N. Ho Family Foundation Fellowship and Grant Competitions in Buddhist Studies
In-Reply-To: <201708241133694.SM04061@web1>
Message-ID: <865277ea-56d6-bc97-d350-3effefdf556b@oeaw.ac.at>

Dear colleagues,

I am forwarding the official announcement of this year's round of Ho
Foundation fellowship and grant competitions in Buddhist Studies --
apologies for cross-posting. Indologists may be particularly interested
in a new funding line for critical editions and scholarly translations.
Details are given below.

With best regards, Birgit Kellner


-------- Weitergeleitete Nachricht --------
Betreff: 	The Robert H. N. Ho Family Foundation Fellowship and Grant
Competitions in Buddhist Studies
Datum: 	Thu, 24 Aug 2017 11:33:18 -0400
Von: 	Andrzej Tymowski <buddhiststudies at acls.org>
An: 	birgit.kellner at oeaw.ac.at



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From mailmealakendudas at rediffmail.com  Tue Aug 29 09:37:10 2017
From: mailmealakendudas at rediffmail.com (alakendu das)
Date: Tue, 29 Aug 17 09:37:10 +0000
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Buddhist Text
Message-ID: <20170829093710.7857.qmail@f4mail-235-222.rediffmail.com>



 Dr.Cahill,



  Thank you,once again, for the article by Jason Brown, entitled-'Microgenesis and Buddhsim'. 

It is an illuminating article focussing on hidden areas.However, I would ,with all humbleness, 

like to mention that there exists an apparent contradiction between momentariness ( 

KshanikaVada)and law of Dependent Origination( Patticchya Samutpada),which has been  

explicitly mentioned and denounced  in Badarayan's BrahmaSutra' where he states-???? ??????????? 

?????? ???????????? ??????? .



       Logically viewing, an entity which is  Kshanika i.e created and destructed instantly 

cannot lead to another entity ( which is the Law of dependent origination)





                                                      ALAKENDU DAS





  


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From mailmealakendudas at rediffmail.com  Tue Aug 29 11:41:41 2017
From: mailmealakendudas at rediffmail.com (alakendu das)
Date: Tue, 29 Aug 17 11:41:41 +0000
Subject: =?utf-8?B?UmU6IFtJTkRPTE9HWV0gUml2ZXIg4KSV4KS+4KSv4KSV4KWB4KSf4KWA?=
Message-ID: <1504006458.S.686.autosave.drafts.1504006901.716@webmail.rediffmail.com>

Sir,&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;Did you notice the word "Pandyeshu" in the Raghuvamsa qoute referred by you.? Does it indicate the location of the river Karyakuti somewhere in the Pandya dynasty,who ruled for a considerable period of time from 3rd BCE to 17th CE....and Kalidasa thrived somewhere in 6 thCE.&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;Alakendu Das. No


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From christophe.vielle at uclouvain.be  Tue Aug 29 14:32:24 2017
From: christophe.vielle at uclouvain.be (Christophe Vielle)
Date: Tue, 29 Aug 17 16:32:24 +0200
Subject: =?utf-8?B?UmU6IFtJTkRPTE9HWV0gUml2ZXIg4KSV4KS+4KSv4KSV4KWB4KSf4KWA?=
In-Reply-To: <CAODNnZjdEEfZ-cUR7VSRjh6Brq=d0sSBxonRgPqjWwGYWs3cZw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <830150A1-926B-4DF6-85BE-9850B2B893CF@uclouvain.be>

The name of this river is reminding of 'K?yal', the name of the emporium in the delta of the Tamraparni (Tinnevelly District) referred to by Marco Polo (https://ebooks.adelaide.edu.au/p/polo/marco/travels/book3.21.html - cf. K?lkhoi emporion, Ptolemy Geogr. 7, 1, 10). But the Tamil word k?yal ('backwater, mouth of a stream") is far from the meaning of "Curve of the body" (ku?? is found in several words for/names of "curving" rivers). The T?mrapar??  herself is described by K?lid?sa in 4.50 (53  crit. ed. Goodall & Isaacson).
This explanation of N?ga(/Uraga)-pura as a city on the border of the K?yaku??  river in the  P???ya country was already made by  Dak?i??vartan?tha  (13th-14th c.) in his unpublished d?pik? on the Raghuva??a according to N. P. Unni (Highways and Byways in Sanskrit Literature, Delhi: New Bharatiya Book Corporation, 2012, p. 159, who relies on a KUML transcript-manuscript). It is in this case (like in other) the source of  Aru?agirin?tha (contemporary of  Mallin?tha, early 15th century - the latter who also sometimes uses Dak?i??vartan?tha has possibly misread his source here or, as you guess, his text has been later corrupted), himself followed by  N?r?ya?a Pa??ita.
The commentary of Vallabhadeva could be useful here, but I have not Goodall & Isaacson edition at hand.
On his side, the commentator Hem?dri says: urag?khyasyeti kalpit?rtham.
Best wishes,
Christophe Vielle

Le 28 ao?t 2017 ? 21:34, Krishnaprasad G via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info> a ?crit :

> Dear all
> 
> In Raghuvamsa 6th Canto and Verse 58 or 59 
> ???????????? ?????? ???? first foot says about Nagapura or Uragapura 
> Mallinatha explains as ??????????????????????????? but this seems to be a mistake as Kanouj is on the North of India , whereas the poet in further verses clearly places it on the south. 
> 
> And on further search I found Arunagirinatha and Narayana in the commentary to the above mentioned verse give the details as the place  in the bank of the river ???????
> ?????????? ??????? ??? ??? ??????? ??????? ???? ???????????...
> 
> Does any one knows about this river or its modern name kindly inform.
> 
> I also believe that even Mallinatha has written ??????? as the name is not famous that must be due to ??????????? scribal error occurred
> Thanks
Correction :
Not ??????? 
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe)

???????????????????
Christophe Vielle
Louvain-la-Neuve



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From paoloe.rosati at gmail.com  Tue Aug 29 14:39:22 2017
From: paoloe.rosati at gmail.com (Paolo Eugenio Rosati)
Date: Tue, 29 Aug 17 16:39:22 +0200
Subject: [INDOLOGY] pdf of Castes and Tribes of Rajasthan
Message-ID: <CAMOCTf-rRRLEanhh8Rq3moi9nRVB0FeOJRZ23OE462QSizUsjQ@mail.gmail.com>

Dear indologists,

A friend of mine is looking for

Gahlot, S.S. 1989. *Castes and Tribes** of Rajasthan*. Jodhpur.

Anyone can help with a pdf copy?

Best,
Paolo




-- 
*Paolo E. Rosati *
Archaeologist
PhD candidate in *Civilizations of Asia and Africa*
(South Asia Section)
Italian Institute of Oriental Studies
'Sapienza' University of Rome

*https://uniroma1.academia.edu/PaoloRosati/
<https://uniroma1.academia.edu/PaoloRosati/>*
paoloe.rosati at uniroma1.it
paoloe.rosati at gmail.com
Skype: paoloe.rosati
Mobile: (+39) 338 73 83 472


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From tylerwwilliams at gmail.com  Tue Aug 29 15:46:20 2017
From: tylerwwilliams at gmail.com (Tyler Williams)
Date: Tue, 29 Aug 17 11:46:20 -0400
Subject: [INDOLOGY] pdf of Castes and Tribes of Rajasthan
In-Reply-To: <CAMOCTf-rRRLEanhh8Rq3moi9nRVB0FeOJRZ23OE462QSizUsjQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAHRgzy0hQrpfxggj=B6kL1ZDuvzckNtrb+=T_-DNKBshoVKeHg@mail.gmail.com>

If there happens to be a pdf available, I too would appreciate having a
copy. It is currently out of print.

Best,
TWW


On Tue, Aug 29, 2017 at 10:39 AM, Paolo Eugenio Rosati via INDOLOGY <
indology at list.indology.info> wrote:

> Dear indologists,
>
> A friend of mine is looking for
>
> Gahlot, S.S. 1989. *Castes and Tribes** of Rajasthan*. Jodhpur.
>
> Anyone can help with a pdf copy?
>
> Best,
> Paolo
>
>
>
>
> --
> *Paolo E. Rosati *
> Archaeologist
> PhD candidate in *Civilizations of Asia and Africa*
> (South Asia Section)
> Italian Institute of Oriental Studies
> 'Sapienza' University of Rome
>
> *https://uniroma1.academia.edu/PaoloRosati/
> <https://uniroma1.academia.edu/PaoloRosati/>*
> paoloe.rosati at uniroma1.it
> paoloe.rosati at gmail.com
> Skype: paoloe.rosati
> Mobile: (+39) 338 73 83 472
>
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
> committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
> unsubscribe)
>


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From andrew.ollett at gmail.com  Tue Aug 29 16:59:12 2017
From: andrew.ollett at gmail.com (Andrew Ollett)
Date: Tue, 29 Aug 17 12:59:12 -0400
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Rahul Sankrityayan's recordings of Sanskrit and Prakrit literature
Message-ID: <CAANHO173hciaCEKLsjjdKtN9w+=27BYWT5Fo0PzF=q53J7ew2A@mail.gmail.com>

Dear list members,

I've come across a reference, in Alaka Atreya Chudal's book on Rahul
Sankrityayan, to recordings of Sanskrit and Prakrit texts (Artha??stra,
Nalop?khy?na, Setubandha, etc.) that the Mahapandit made while he was a
professor at Leningrad University (1945-1947). These recordings were
evidently available some decades afterwards in "the acoustics room at the
university," according to V. I. Kalianov. I've written to the institutions
at St. Petersburg that might know of the current whereabouts of these
recordings, but I thought that I would ask all of you if you have any
further information, especially since Sankrityayan is a relatively frequent
topic of conversation on this list. It would be great to put those
recordings online.

I should also take the opportunity to ask whether any of you are aware of
any other recordings of Prakrit literature. I was surprised to see the
Setubandha in the list, since I know of many fine recordings of classical
Sanskrit and Kannada texts, but haven't yet found anything comparable for
Prakrit texts.

Andrew


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From rekharanitj at gmail.com  Tue Aug 29 17:27:25 2017
From: rekharanitj at gmail.com (Rekha Rani)
Date: Tue, 29 Aug 17 22:57:25 +0530
Subject: [INDOLOGY] caste and tribes of rajasthan - Google Search
Message-ID: <CA+QA-K1=AWHjWiTzG9hynQtpJFmpFn2SFQhVnU0sE6egH6ifVg@mail.gmail.com>

https://www.google.co.in/search?q=caste+and+tribes+of+rajasthan&oq=cas&aqs=chrome.0.69i59j69i57j35i39j0j69i60.3485j0j4&client=ms-android-xiaomi&sourceid=chrome-mobile&ie=UTF-8


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From manufrancis at gmail.com  Tue Aug 29 21:22:56 2017
From: manufrancis at gmail.com (Manu Francis)
Date: Tue, 29 Aug 17 23:22:56 +0200
Subject: =?utf-8?B?UmU6IFtJTkRPTE9HWV0gUml2ZXIg4KSV4KS+4KSv4KSV4KWB4KSf4KWA?=
In-Reply-To: <830150A1-926B-4DF6-85BE-9850B2B893CF@uclouvain.be>
Message-ID: <CANVHsm79pSUJoHofz_HYaVz+Sw-k=DsMa2m89jP-5VVGaeZXHQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Uragapura, see attached file: a discussion on this List, involving the
late Michael D. Rabe.
Which is also available on the WWW:
http://list.indology.info/pipermail/indology_list.indology.info/1999-March/016494.html
Best.
--


Emmanuel Francis
Charg? de recherche CNRS, Centre d'?tude de l'Inde et de l'Asie du Sud (UMR
8564, EHESS-CNRS, Paris)
http://ceias.ehess.fr/
http://ceias.ehess.fr/index.php?1725
http://rcsi.hypotheses.org/
Associate member, Centre for the Study of Manuscript Culture (SFB 950,
Universit?t Hamburg)
http://www.manuscript-cultures.uni-hamburg.de/index_e.html
https://cnrs.academia.edu/emmanuelfrancis

2017-08-29 16:32 GMT+02:00 Christophe Vielle via INDOLOGY <
indology at list.indology.info>:

> The name of this river is reminding of 'K?yal', the name of the emporium
> in the delta of the Tamraparni (Tinnevelly District) referred to by Marco
> Polo (https://ebooks.adelaide.edu.au/p/polo/marco/travels/book3.21.html -
> cf. K?lkhoi emporion, Ptolemy Geogr. 7, 1, 10). But the Tamil word k?yal
> ('backwater, mouth of a stream") is far from the meaning of "Curve of the
> body" (ku?? is found in several words for/names of "curving" rivers). The
> T?mrapar??  herself is described by K?lid?sa in 4.50 (53  crit. ed.
> Goodall & Isaacson).
> This explanation of N?ga(/Uraga)-pura as a city on the border of the K?
> yaku??  river in the  P???ya country was already made by
> Dak?i??vartan?tha  (13th-14th c.) in his unpublished *d?pik?* on the
> *Raghuva??a* according to N. P. Unni (*Highways and Byways in Sanskrit
> Literature, *Delhi: New Bharatiya Book Corporation, 2012, p. 159, who
> relies on a KUML transcript-manuscript). It is in this case (like in other)
> the source of  Aru?agirin?tha (contemporary of  Mallin?tha, early 15th
> century - the latter who also sometimes uses Dak?i??vartan?tha has
> possibly misread his source here or, as you guess, his text has been later
> corrupted), himself followed by  N?r?ya?a Pa??ita.
> The commentary of Vallabhadeva could be useful here, but I have not
> Goodall & Isaacson edition at hand.
> On his side, the commentator Hem?dri says: urag?khyasyeti kalpit?rtham.
> Best wishes,
> Christophe Vielle
>
> Le 28 ao?t 2017 ? 21:34, Krishnaprasad G via INDOLOGY <
> indology at list.indology.info> a ?crit :
>
> Dear all
>
> In Raghuvamsa 6th Canto and Verse 58 or 59
> ???????????? ?????? ???? first foot says about Nagapura or Uragapura
> Mallinatha explains as ??????????????????????????? but this seems to be a
> mistake as Kanouj is on the North of India , whereas the poet in further
> verses clearly places it on the south.
>
> And on further search I found Arunagirinatha and Narayana in the
> commentary to the above mentioned verse give the details as the place  in
> the bank of the river ???????
> ?????????? ??????? ??? ??? ??????? ??????? ???? ???????????...
>
> Does any one knows about this river or its modern name kindly inform.
>
> I also believe that even Mallinatha has written ??????? as the name is not
> famous that must be due to ??????????? scribal error occurred
> Thanks
>
> Correction :
> Not ???????
>
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
> committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
> unsubscribe)
>
>
> ???????????????????
> Christophe Vielle <http://www.uclouvain.be/christophe.vielle>
> Louvain-la-Neuve
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
> committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
> unsubscribe)
>


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From palaniappa at aol.com  Tue Aug 29 21:27:34 2017
From: palaniappa at aol.com (Sudalaimuthu Palaniappan)
Date: Tue, 29 Aug 17 16:27:34 -0500
Subject: =?utf-8?B?UmU6IFtJTkRPTE9HWV0gUml2ZXIg4KSV4KS+4KSv4KSV4KWB4KSf4KWA?=
In-Reply-To: <830150A1-926B-4DF6-85BE-9850B2B893CF@uclouvain.be>
Message-ID: <B0E65791-50EE-4B0E-BD6C-6536FAC4BB22@aol.com>

If the question is really about the river mentioned by a commentator, there is no river in Tamil Nadu called K?yaku??. If one considers the possibility that this name is a translation of some Tamil name, one has to allow for ?losses in translation?. According to Monier Williams, k?ya also means "assemblage , collection , multitude SaddhP.? This seems to be a synonym of sa?gha (perhaps referring to the legendary Tamil assembly in Madurai) or a translation of ?Ta. K??al?, another name of the city of Madurai. 

If it was related to the city called uraga, there was a discussion in Indology earlier such as
http://list.indology.info/pipermail/indology_list.indology.info/1999-March/016494.html <http://list.indology.info/pipermail/indology_list.indology.info/1999-March/016494.html> 

I was not able to navigate and get to all the posts from this link. You may want to do a search on ?uraga? and look at the posts.

Regards,
Palaniappan

> On Aug 29, 2017, at 9:32 AM, Christophe Vielle via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info> wrote:
> 
> The name of this river is reminding of 'K?yal', the name of the emporium in the delta of the Tamraparni (Tinnevelly District) referred to by Marco Polo (https://ebooks.adelaide.edu.au/p/polo/marco/travels/book3.21.html <https://ebooks.adelaide.edu.au/p/polo/marco/travels/book3.21.html> - cf. K?lkhoi emporion, Ptolemy Geogr. 7, 1, 10). But the Tamil word k?yal ('backwater, mouth of a stream") is far from the meaning of "Curve of the body" (ku?? is found in several words for/names of "curving" rivers). The T?mrapar??  herself is described by K?lid?sa in 4.50 (53  crit. ed. Goodall & Isaacson).
> This explanation of N?ga(/Uraga)-pura as a city on the border of the K?yaku??  river in the  P???ya country was already made by  Dak?i??vartan?tha  (13th-14th c.) in his unpublished d?pik? on the Raghuva??a according to N. P. Unni (Highways and Byways in Sanskrit Literature, Delhi: New Bharatiya Book Corporation, 2012, p. 159, who relies on a KUML transcript-manuscript). It is in this case (like in other) the source of  Aru?agirin?tha (contemporary of  Mallin?tha, early 15th century - the latter who also sometimes uses Dak?i??vartan?tha has possibly misread his source here or, as you guess, his text has been later corrupted), himself followed by  N?r?ya?a Pa??ita.
> The commentary of Vallabhadeva could be useful here, but I have not Goodall & Isaacson edition at hand.
> On his side, the commentator Hem?dri says: urag?khyasyeti kalpit?rtham.
> Best wishes,
> Christophe Vielle
> 
> Le 28 ao?t 2017 ? 21:34, Krishnaprasad G via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info <mailto:indology at list.indology.info>> a ?crit :
> 
>> Dear all
>> 
>> In Raghuvamsa 6th Canto and Verse 58 or 59 
>> ???????????? ?????? ???? first foot says about Nagapura or Uragapura 
>> Mallinatha explains as ??????????????????????????? but this seems to be a mistake as Kanouj is on the North of India , whereas the poet in further verses clearly places it on the south. 
>> 
>> And on further search I found Arunagirinatha and Narayana in the commentary to the above mentioned verse give the details as the place  in the bank of the river ???????
>> ?????????? ??????? ??? ??? ??????? ??????? ???? ???????????...
>> 
>> Does any one knows about this river or its modern name kindly inform.
>> 
>> I also believe that even Mallinatha has written ??????? as the name is not famous that must be due to ??????????? scribal error occurred
>> Thanks
> Correction :
> Not ??????? 
>> _______________________________________________
>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info <mailto:INDOLOGY at list.indology.info>
>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee)
>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe)
> 
> ???????????????????
> Christophe Vielle <http://www.uclouvain.be/christophe.vielle>
> Louvain-la-Neuve
> 
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe)



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From francois.patte at mi.parisdescartes.fr  Thu Aug 31 12:08:17 2017
From: francois.patte at mi.parisdescartes.fr (=?utf-8?Q?Fran=C3=A7ois_Patte?=)
Date: Thu, 31 Aug 17 14:08:17 +0200
Subject: [INDOLOGY] help on a citation
Message-ID: <13e36317-2376-bb34-0298-d670bc6b396f@mi.parisdescartes.fr>

Bonjour,

I would have some help about a sentence which appears as a citation in a
Hal?yudha commentary on Pi?gala chanda???stram:

dvandv?t paro ya? ?r?yate

Where does it come from and what is its meaning?

Thank you.

-- 
Fran?ois Patte
UFR de math?matiques et informatique
Laboratoire CNRS MAP5, UMR 8145
Universit? Paris Descartes
45, rue des Saints P?res
F-75270 Paris Cedex 06
T?l. +33 (0)6 7892 5822
http://www.math-info.univ-paris5.fr/~patte

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From mmdesh at umich.edu  Thu Aug 31 12:46:22 2017
From: mmdesh at umich.edu (Madhav Deshpande)
Date: Thu, 31 Aug 17 08:46:22 -0400
Subject: [INDOLOGY] help on a citation
In-Reply-To: <13e36317-2376-bb34-0298-d670bc6b396f@mi.parisdescartes.fr>
Message-ID: <CAB3-dzdiFi51nar6A8se3LgT=4XOt1srEyM8EUq071=Q3-iK7Q@mail.gmail.com>

Hello Fran?ois,

     Please post a scan of the page where this passage occurs, so that we
can see the context.  Best,

Madhav Deshpande

On Thu, Aug 31, 2017 at 8:08 AM, Fran?ois Patte via INDOLOGY <
indology at list.indology.info> wrote:

> Bonjour,
>
> I would have some help about a sentence which appears as a citation in a
> Hal?yudha commentary on Pi?gala chanda???stram:
>
> dvandv?t paro ya? ?r?yate
>
> Where does it come from and what is its meaning?
>
> Thank you.
>
> --
> Fran?ois Patte
> UFR de math?matiques et informatique
> Laboratoire CNRS MAP5, UMR 8145
> Universit? Paris Descartes
> 45, rue des Saints P?res
> F-75270 Paris Cedex 06
> T?l. +33 (0)6 7892 5822
> http://www.math-info.univ-paris5.fr/~patte
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
> committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
> unsubscribe)
>


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From drdj at austin.utexas.edu  Thu Aug 31 14:00:02 2017
From: drdj at austin.utexas.edu (Donald R Davis)
Date: Thu, 31 Aug 17 14:00:02 +0000
Subject: [INDOLOGY] "Ramanuja" by Julius Lipner
Message-ID: <BY2PR06MB22130607A787034AF6710A968C9D0@BY2PR06MB2213.namprd06.prod.outlook.com>

Dear Friends,

I would be grateful for a PDF of the entry on Ramanuja by Julius Lipner from the Brill Encyclopedia of Hinduism.

Thanks in advance,

Don Davis
University of Texas at Austin



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From drdj at austin.utexas.edu  Thu Aug 31 15:48:46 2017
From: drdj at austin.utexas.edu (Donald R Davis)
Date: Thu, 31 Aug 17 15:48:46 +0000
Subject: [INDOLOGY] "Ramanuja" by Julius Lipner
In-Reply-To: <BY2PR06MB22130607A787034AF6710A968C9D0@BY2PR06MB2213.namprd06.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <BY2PR06MB22132FDDD901D768F8C8CADD8C9D0@BY2PR06MB2213.namprd06.prod.outlook.com>

Article received. My thanks to Borayin Larios.

Best, Don


From: INDOLOGY [mailto:indology-bounces at list.indology.info] On Behalf Of Donald R Davis via INDOLOGY
Sent: Thursday, August 31, 2017 9:00 AM
To: Indology <indology at list.indology.info>
Subject: [INDOLOGY] "Ramanuja" by Julius Lipner

Dear Friends,

I would be grateful for a PDF of the entry on Ramanuja by Julius Lipner from the Brill Encyclopedia of Hinduism.

Thanks in advance,

Don Davis
University of Texas at Austin



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From christophe.vielle at uclouvain.be  Thu Aug 31 16:02:12 2017
From: christophe.vielle at uclouvain.be (Christophe Vielle)
Date: Thu, 31 Aug 17 18:02:12 +0200
Subject: =?utf-8?B?UmU6IFtJTkRPTE9HWV0gUml2ZXIg4KSV4KS+4KSv4KSV4KWB4KSf4KWA?=
In-Reply-To: <B0E65791-50EE-4B0E-BD6C-6536FAC4BB22@aol.com>
Message-ID: <0D83DA54-91D1-42FA-B7B1-81D0123754D3@uclouvain.be>

There is a K?yaku??/"Kayakudi" river in Tamil Nadu, more precisely in the Pandya country. See:

The imperial gazetteer of India, W.W. Hunter, vol. 1, 1885, p. 12:
https://archive.org/stream/imperialgazette01huntuoft#page/12/mode/2up

Achandavilt?n. ? Town in Srivilliputtur t?luk, Tinnevelli District, Madras Presidency. Lat. 9 29' n., long. 77 42' e. ; population (1881), 2765 ; houses, 544. Situated on the left bank of the Kayak?di river.

http://www.angelfire.com/nc2/achamthavilthan/about.htm

"Achamthavilthan" ,  means "the lord has removed the fear from the minds of the people".  There is a small story behind this.

There is a river in between the two parts of the village.  People have to go to other side of the river to buy Vegetables and other items. Once a pragrent lady has gone to other side to buy some items. On return, due to sudden rainfall there was a heavy water in the river and she has prayed to the Lord Venkatesa Perumal and he made the way for her. Due to this the people of this village has changed the name as "Achamthavilthan".

11km from there, the same  river (a tributary of the Vaippar river/stream, which flows between the Vangai and the Tamraparni) is also linked to the Madavar Vilagam Vaidyanathar temple in Srivilliputhur (now Virudhunagar District):

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Madavar_Vilagam_Vaidyanathar_temple
http://temple.dinamalar.com/en/new_en.php?id=686
The lord also said that as the spring healed her wounds and quenched her thirst, the stream would be known as Kayakudi Aaru.  Those having a dip in the river would be free of all fears of life and attain all comforts in life.

This should be the river to which refers the South-Indian commentator Dak?i??vartan?tha (who himself originated from some village called Mah?rjuna, identified with the "region called Madhy?rjuna which is the Sanskritised form of the popular name of Tiruvi?aimarutt?r" [Thiruvidaimaruthur] near Kumbakonam, according to N. P. Unni).

Why Dak?i??vartan?tha says that [the supposed Pandyan capital] N?gapuram is on the border of this river? Maybe because at the time of the late Pandyas (from the second third of the 14th c. onwards, after the establishment of the Sultanate of Madurai), their real capital was no longer in Madurai (even if they never stopped in their inscriptions to symbolically present themselves as the true rulers of Madurai); "they found themselves restricted to their more southern possessions" (K.A. Nilakanta Sastri, The Pandyan Kingdom, 1929, p. 217) in the regions of Srivilliputur, Tenkasi and Tirunelveli.

I am not sure that more historical importance has to be ascribed to this possibly "new" location of N?gapura by Dak?i??vartan?tha, who is a rather fanciful commentator. 

Best wishes,
Christophe Vielle

Le 29 ao?t 2017 ? 23:27, Sudalaimuthu Palaniappan <palaniappa at aol.com> a ?crit :

> If the question is really about the river mentioned by a commentator, there is no river in Tamil Nadu called K?yaku??. If one considers the possibility that this name is a translation of some Tamil name, one has to allow for ?losses in translation?. According to Monier Williams, k?ya also means "assemblage , collection , multitude SaddhP.? This seems to be a synonym of sa?gha (perhaps referring to the legendary Tamil assembly in Madurai) or a translation of ?Ta. K??al?, another name of the city of Madurai. 
> 
> If it was related to the city called uraga, there was a discussion in Indology earlier such as
> http://list.indology.info/pipermail/indology_list.indology.info/1999-March/016494.html 
> 
> I was not able to navigate and get to all the posts from this link. You may want to do a search on ?uraga? and look at the posts.
> 
> Regards,
> Palaniappan
> 
>> On Aug 29, 2017, at 9:32 AM, Christophe Vielle via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info> wrote:
>> 
>> The name of this river is reminding of 'K?yal', the name of the emporium in the delta of the Tamraparni (Tinnevelly District) referred to by Marco Polo (https://ebooks.adelaide.edu.au/p/polo/marco/travels/book3.21.html - cf. K?lkhoi emporion, Ptolemy Geogr. 7, 1, 10). But the Tamil word k?yal ('backwater, mouth of a stream") is far from the meaning of "Curve of the body" (ku?? is found in several words for/names of "curving" rivers). The T?mrapar??  herself is described by K?lid?sa in 4.50 (53  crit. ed. Goodall & Isaacson).
>> This explanation of N?ga(/Uraga)-pura as a city on the border of the K?yaku??  river in the  P???ya country was already made by  Dak?i??vartan?tha  (13th-14th c.) in his unpublished d?pik? on the Raghuva??a according to N. P. Unni (Highways and Byways in Sanskrit Literature, Delhi: New Bharatiya Book Corporation, 2012, p. 159, who relies on a KUML transcript-manuscript). It is in this case (like in other) the source of  Aru?agirin?tha (contemporary of  Mallin?tha, early 15th century - the latter who also sometimes uses Dak?i??vartan?tha has possibly misread his source here or, as you guess, his text has been later corrupted), himself followed by  N?r?ya?a Pa??ita.
>> The commentary of Vallabhadeva could be useful here, but I have not Goodall & Isaacson edition at hand.
>> On his side, the commentator Hem?dri says: urag?khyasyeti kalpit?rtham.
>> Best wishes,
>> Christophe Vielle
>> 
>> Le 28 ao?t 2017 ? 21:34, Krishnaprasad G via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info> a ?crit :
>> 
>>> Dear all
>>> 
>>> In Raghuvamsa 6th Canto and Verse 58 or 59 
>>> ???????????? ?????? ???? first foot says about Nagapura or Uragapura 
>>> Mallinatha explains as ??????????????????????????? but this seems to be a mistake as Kanouj is on the North of India , whereas the poet in further verses clearly places it on the south. 
>>> 
>>> And on further search I found Arunagirinatha and Narayana in the commentary to the above mentioned verse give the details as the place  in the bank of the river ???????
>>> ?????????? ??????? ??? ??? ??????? ??????? ???? ???????????...
>>> 
>>> Does any one knows about this river or its modern name kindly inform.
>>> 
>>> I also believe that even Mallinatha has written ??????? as the name is not famous that must be due to ??????????? scribal error occurred
>>> Thanks
>> Correction :
>> Not ??????? 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee)
>>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe)
>> 
>> ???????????????????
>> Christophe Vielle
>> Louvain-la-Neuve
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee)
>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe)
> 

???????????????????
Christophe Vielle
Louvain-la-Neuve



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From francois.patte at mi.parisdescartes.fr  Thu Aug 31 16:40:43 2017
From: francois.patte at mi.parisdescartes.fr (=?utf-8?Q?Fran=C3=A7ois_Patte?=)
Date: Thu, 31 Aug 17 18:40:43 +0200
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Fwd: Re:  help on a citation
In-Reply-To: <85e088e9-b19a-dbfc-3935-8abe8d289f52@mi.parisdescartes.fr>
Message-ID: <14360e07-54be-1ffb-31d0-2cfd175bdffa@mi.parisdescartes.fr>




-------- Message transf?r? --------
Sujet : Re: [INDOLOGY] help on a citation
Date : Thu, 31 Aug 2017 18:11:54 +0200
De : Fran?ois Patte <francois.patte at mi.parisdescartes.fr>
Organisation : Universit? Paris Descartes
Pour : Andrew Ollett <andrew.ollett at gmail.com>

Le 31/08/2017 ? 14:44, Andrew Ollett a ?crit :
> Cher Fran?ois,
> 
> O? pr?cis?ment se trouve cette r?f?rence? Je ne le sais pas, mais
> peut-?tre le "ya?" est le trika (LGG)?

In chapter 8 the commentary of *mi?rau ca* says:

 anena dvit?y?k?araprast?ra? dar?ayati| cak?ra?
  p?rvaprast?rasamuccay?rtha?| dvikau glau sth?payitv?
  anantara? dvit?yasth?ne?u mi?rau glau vinyaset| gak?ro
  gak?re?a sa??li??o mi?ra ucyate lak?ra?_ca lak?re?a|
  mi?r?v_iti gak?ralak?r?bhy?? pratyekam_abhisa?badhyate|
  "*dvandv?t paro ya? ?r?yata*'' iti ny?y?t| tata?_ca
  pratham?y?m_?v?ttau gak?rau mi?rau sth?payet| dvit?y?y??
  lak?r?v_iti| tato madhye lekh?m_apanayet| eva? catu?prak?ro
  dvyak?araprast?ro bhavati| tadyath?--- gau lgau glau l?v_iti||

Everything is clear for me, except the quotation...

Thank you for helping. (Madhav Deshpande asks for a scan, I think that
this passage is enough for the context, and less heavy for the list...)

F.
-- 
Fran?ois Patte
UFR de math?matiques et informatique
Laboratoire CNRS MAP5, UMR 8145
Universit? Paris Descartes
45, rue des Saints P?res
F-75270 Paris Cedex 06
T?l. +33 (0)6 7892 5822
http://www.math-info.univ-paris5.fr/~patte



-- 
Fran?ois Patte
UFR de math?matiques et informatique
Laboratoire CNRS MAP5, UMR 8145
Universit? Paris Descartes
45, rue des Saints P?res
F-75270 Paris Cedex 06
T?l. +33 (0)6 7892 5822
http://www.math-info.univ-paris5.fr/~patte

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From mmdesh at umich.edu  Thu Aug 31 17:43:36 2017
From: mmdesh at umich.edu (Madhav Deshpande)
Date: Thu, 31 Aug 17 13:43:36 -0400
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Fwd: Re: help on a citation
In-Reply-To: <14360e07-54be-1ffb-31d0-2cfd175bdffa@mi.parisdescartes.fr>
Message-ID: <CAB3-dzfjLPxdVfZAmZP94Aa3TO2QD6H3M=eQV6EVinJ5HjxABg@mail.gmail.com>

Hello Fran?ois,

As I understand, the commentary is trying to account for the expression
"mi?rau glau".  If we understand the expression "g-l" as a dvandva
compound, then the dual affix "au" could be interpreted as relating to each
member of the dvandva compound, and this can allow the compound to refer to
groups like "g-g" and "l-l" as well.  These units are referred to by the
commentary with the word mi?ra.
There is a commonly repeated convention (ny?ya): dvandv?t para? ?r?yam??a?
?abda? pratyekamabhisambadhyate.  Another wording found elsewhere is:
dvandv?nte ?r?yam??a? pada? pratyekam abhisambadhyate.

Madhav Deshpande

2017-08-31 12:40 GMT-04:00 Fran?ois Patte via INDOLOGY <
indology at list.indology.info>:

>
>
>
> -------- Message transf?r? --------
> Sujet : Re: [INDOLOGY] help on a citation
> Date : Thu, 31 Aug 2017 18:11:54 +0200
> De : Fran?ois Patte <francois.patte at mi.parisdescartes.fr>
> Organisation : Universit? Paris Descartes
> Pour : Andrew Ollett <andrew.ollett at gmail.com>
>
> Le 31/08/2017 ? 14:44, Andrew Ollett a ?crit :
> > Cher Fran?ois,
> >
> > O? pr?cis?ment se trouve cette r?f?rence? Je ne le sais pas, mais
> > peut-?tre le "ya?" est le trika (LGG)?
>
> In chapter 8 the commentary of *mi?rau ca* says:
>
>  anena dvit?y?k?araprast?ra? dar?ayati| cak?ra?
>   p?rvaprast?rasamuccay?rtha?| dvikau glau sth?payitv?
>   anantara? dvit?yasth?ne?u mi?rau glau vinyaset| gak?ro
>   gak?re?a sa??li??o mi?ra ucyate lak?ra?_ca lak?re?a|
>   mi?r?v_iti gak?ralak?r?bhy?? pratyekam_abhisa?badhyate|
>   "*dvandv?t paro ya? ?r?yata*'' iti ny?y?t| tata?_ca
>   pratham?y?m_?v?ttau gak?rau mi?rau sth?payet| dvit?y?y??
>   lak?r?v_iti| tato madhye lekh?m_apanayet| eva? catu?prak?ro
>   dvyak?araprast?ro bhavati| tadyath?--- gau lgau glau l?v_iti||
>
> Everything is clear for me, except the quotation...
>
> Thank you for helping. (Madhav Deshpande asks for a scan, I think that
> this passage is enough for the context, and less heavy for the list...)
>
> F.
> --
> Fran?ois Patte
> UFR de math?matiques et informatique
> Laboratoire CNRS MAP5, UMR 8145
> Universit? Paris Descartes
> 45, rue des Saints P?res
> F-75270 Paris Cedex 06
> T?l. +33 (0)6 7892 5822
> http://www.math-info.univ-paris5.fr/~patte
>
>
>
> --
> Fran?ois Patte
> UFR de math?matiques et informatique
> Laboratoire CNRS MAP5, UMR 8145
> Universit? Paris Descartes
> 45, rue des Saints P?res
> F-75270 Paris Cedex 06
> T?l. +33 (0)6 7892 5822
> http://www.math-info.univ-paris5.fr/~patte
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
> committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
> unsubscribe)
>


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From karp at uw.edu.pl  Thu Aug 31 20:31:47 2017
From: karp at uw.edu.pl (Artur Karp)
Date: Thu, 31 Aug 17 22:31:47 +0200
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Conference?
Message-ID: <CALNcvFsk9NKCePyVKkVFsFQQcXqtEf=p3UrUkjYMgsDOE5j2nw@mail.gmail.com>

Dear Indology-ists,

Between August 27 and 30, my small paper, uploaded long time ago to
Academia.edu

https://www.academia.edu/8718097/A_Short_Note_on_the_Hindi_Honorificum_-ji_in_Rocznik_Orientalistyczny_T._LX_Z._2_2007_pp._279-282_

had, quite unexpectedly, 163 visits - from all over the world.

I wonder - what was the reason for this sudden interest? Some conference?

If so, I was not informed about it. Was there any?

Best,

Artur Karp (ret.)

Chair of South Asian Studies
University of Warsaw
Polska


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From karp at uw.edu.pl  Thu Aug 31 21:26:29 2017
From: karp at uw.edu.pl (Artur Karp)
Date: Thu, 31 Aug 17 23:26:29 +0200
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Conference?
In-Reply-To: <CALNcvFsk9NKCePyVKkVFsFQQcXqtEf=p3UrUkjYMgsDOE5j2nw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CALNcvFveQk01sxO2J15rwFAAJuHBaoKJYdh4yeeLVpn+r4zLhA@mail.gmail.com>

My thanks to Tim Lubin and Rafa? Kleczek, for their answers off the list.

Reddit,  tweet as possible sources. A bit funny, and beyond my experience.

I just wondered - if, by any chance, there might be some new findings re:
the history of this Hindi honorificum.

Best,

Artur
Polska

2017-08-31 22:31 GMT+02:00 Artur Karp <karp at uw.edu.pl>:

> Dear Indology-ists,
>
> Between August 27 and 30, my small paper, uploaded long time ago to
> Academia.edu
>
> https://www.academia.edu/8718097/A_Short_Note_on_the_
> Hindi_Honorificum_-ji_in_Rocznik_Orientalistyczny_T._
> LX_Z._2_2007_pp._279-282_
>
> had, quite unexpectedly, 163 visits - from all over the world.
>
> I wonder - what was the reason for this sudden interest? Some conference?
>
> If so, I was not informed about it. Was there any?
>
> Best,
>
> Artur Karp (ret.)
>
> Chair of South Asian Studies
> University of Warsaw
> Polska
>


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