From rhododaktylos at gmail.com  Sat Apr  1 14:31:30 2017
From: rhododaktylos at gmail.com (Antonia Ruppel)
Date: Sat, 01 Apr 17 15:31:30 +0100
Subject: [INDOLOGY] new book available: The Cambridge Introduction to Sanskrit
Message-ID: <CAEjEOsB1jn=XsBoEKL0LS+SP4qT2d9wEDbY5GJMsniRW6YcWpA@mail.gmail.com>

Dear all,

The new textbook that Dominik had asked about a few weeks ago, The
Cambridge Introduction to Sanskrit, is out now.

Review copies are available from the CUP website at
www.cambridge.org/sanskrit (choose your country/region from the menu in the
top right-hand corner).

If you aren't eligible for a review copy and still want to buy the book
from the CUP website, use the code RUPPEL2016 at checkout for a 20%
discount. (And of course the book is available from other online and
physical retailers, often already discounted.)

The book website, with links to all the available online resources (flash
cards, video tutorials for each chapter, printable handouts etc) is here:
www.cambridge-sanskrit.org

For anyone who'd like to see more Sanskrit on social media, I will be
posting on the book's Facebook page (https://www.facebook.com/StudySanskrit/)
and Twitter account (https://twitter.com/CBSanskrit) every few days.

If you have any suggestions for further online/electronic resources, or any
other feedback, please do simply email me.

I hope the book will prove useful.

All the best,
    Antonia


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From arlogriffiths at hotmail.com  Sun Apr  2 15:45:52 2017
From: arlogriffiths at hotmail.com (Arlo Griffiths)
Date: Sun, 02 Apr 17 15:45:52 +0000
Subject: [INDOLOGY] https://catalog.hathitrust.org/Record/001254766
Message-ID: <HE1PR0902MB1753DA0B1B79FA45F6443B8AA5090@HE1PR0902MB1753.eurprd09.prod.outlook.com>

would any kind soul in the USA be able to download and send this to me?


best wishes,


Arlo Griffiths


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From jknutson at hawaii.edu  Sun Apr  2 20:58:28 2017
From: jknutson at hawaii.edu (Jesse Knutson)
Date: Sun, 02 Apr 17 10:58:28 -1000
Subject: =?utf-8?Q?[INDOLOGY]_less_well-known_G=C4=ABtagovinda_translations?=
Message-ID: <CAAiVBEVD+uaf31ZAaT8RSCAeRCrAw8SnVq4yP7rXegw3M+cQ5g@mail.gmail.com>

Can anyone tell me if the 12th/13th century Sanskrit poem G?tagovinda has
been translated into any Slavic or east Asian languages? or any other
languages that people might be less commonly aware of? Latin, French,
Italian, Spanish, German, English, etc. accounted for. Best, ??????,J
-- 
Jesse Ross Knutson PhD
Assistant Professor of Sanskrit and Bengali, Department of Indo-Pacific
Languages and Literatures
University of Hawai'i at M?noa
461 Spalding


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From pwyzlic at uni-bonn.de  Sun Apr  2 21:27:27 2017
From: pwyzlic at uni-bonn.de (Peter Wyzlic)
Date: Sun, 02 Apr 17 23:27:27 +0200
Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_[INDOLOGY]_less_well-known_G=C4=ABtagovinda_translations?=
In-Reply-To: <CAAiVBEVD+uaf31ZAaT8RSCAeRCrAw8SnVq4yP7rXegw3M+cQ5g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <626E499F-ABF3-4545-8F88-6DD6A8975621@uni-bonn.de>


> Am 02.04.2017 um 22:58 schrieb Jesse Knutson via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info>:
> 
> Can anyone tell me if the 12th/13th century Sanskrit poem G?tagovinda has been translated into any Slavic or east Asian languages? or any other languages that people might be less commonly aware of? Latin, French, Italian, Spanish, German, English, etc. accounted for. Best, ??????,J

To mention a Latin and German translation:

Edition of the Sanskrit text with Latin translation by Christian Lassen: _Gita Govinda, Jayadevae poetae Indici drama lyricum_, Bonnae 1836,  see e.g. Google Books (URL: <https://books.google.de/books?id=0zpNAAAAcAAJ&hl=de&pg=PT4#v=onepage&q&f=false>)

first hand German translation by Friedrich R?ckert: Gita-Gowinda aus dem Sanskrit ?bersetzt von Friedrich R?ckert, in: _Zeitschrift f?r die Kunde des Morgenlandes_ 1.1837, pp. 129-173, see e.g. Google Books (URL: <https://books.google.de/books?id=ogg-AAAAcAAJ&hl=de&pg=PA129#v=onepage&q&f=false>). In the 20th c. this has been re-published  e.g. under the title: _Gita Gowinda oder Die Liebe des Krischna und der Radha_ (Berlin 1920, bibliophile edition with lithographs) and as part of _Indische Liebeslyrik_ ed. by Helmuth von Glasenapp (Munich 1921) and so on.

All the best
Peter Wyzlic


--
Institut f?r Orient- und Asienwissenschaften
Bibliothek
Universit?t Bonn
Regina-Pacis-Weg 7
53113 Bonn





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From ondracka at ff.cuni.cz  Sun Apr  2 21:40:52 2017
From: ondracka at ff.cuni.cz (=?utf-8?Q?Lubom=C3=ADr_Ondra=C4=8Dka?=)
Date: Sun, 02 Apr 17 23:40:52 +0200
Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_[INDOLOGY]_less_well-known_G=C4=ABtagovinda__translations?=
In-Reply-To: <CAAiVBEVD+uaf31ZAaT8RSCAeRCrAw8SnVq4yP7rXegw3M+cQ5g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20170402234052.f49821b7a6c0feed9e1f6765@ff.cuni.cz>

Dear Jesse,

there is a translation into the Russian (by A. Ya. Syrkina, Moskva: Vostochnaya literatura, 1995 - I can send you a pdf, if you want).

There is also a Polish translation: Pie?? o Krysznie Pasterzu, transl. by Barbara Grabowska and Andrzej ?ugowski,  Warszawa: Wydawnictwo Akademickie Dialog, 1996).

As far as I know, there is no published academic translation into the Czech or Slovak languages.

There are probably other translations into Slavic languages produced by ISKCON, but I don't know them.

Best,
Lubomir


On Sun, 2 Apr 2017 10:58:28 -1000
Jesse Knutson via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info> wrote:

> Can anyone tell me if the 12th/13th century Sanskrit poem G?tagovinda has
> been translated into any Slavic or east Asian languages? or any other
> languages that people might be less commonly aware of? Latin, French,
> Italian, Spanish, German, English, etc. accounted for. Best, ??????,J
> -- 
> Jesse Ross Knutson PhD
> Assistant Professor of Sanskrit and Bengali, Department of Indo-Pacific
> Languages and Literatures
> University of Hawai'i at M?noa
> 461 Spalding





From bruno.loturco at uniroma1.it  Sun Apr  2 22:30:45 2017
From: bruno.loturco at uniroma1.it (Bruno Lo Turco)
Date: Sun, 02 Apr 17 22:30:45 +0000
Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_[INDOLOGY]=09less_well-known_G=C4=ABtagovinda_translations?=
In-Reply-To: <CAAiVBEVD+uaf31ZAaT8RSCAeRCrAw8SnVq4yP7rXegw3M+cQ5g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAJSwq-1SHR5VXoS8WjAJoX48qb8AxCnX-N+ah_0V==S_kQQ6ug@mail.gmail.com>

Dear Jesse,

Italian translation:
Jayadeva, *G?tagovinda*, a cura di Giuliano Boccali, Milano, Adelphi, 1991.

Best,
Bruno


On Sun, 2 Apr 2017 at 22:58, Jesse Knutson via INDOLOGY <
indology at list.indology.info> wrote:

> Can anyone tell me if the 12th/13th century Sanskrit poem G?tagovinda has
> been translated into any Slavic or east Asian languages? or any other
> languages that people might be less commonly aware of? Latin, French,
> Italian, Spanish, German, English, etc. accounted for. Best, ??????,J
> --
> Jesse Ross Knutson PhD
> Assistant Professor of Sanskrit and Bengali, Department of Indo-Pacific
> Languages and Literatures
> University of Hawai'i at M?noa
> 461 Spalding
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
> committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
> unsubscribe)

-- 
Bruno Lo Turco
Ricercatore, professore aggregato di Religioni e filosofie dell'India
Istituto Italiano di Studi Orientali
Sapienza Universit? di Roma
Circonv. Tiburtina 4
00185 Roma, Italy

tel. + 39 06 88378046
bruno.loturco at uniroma1.it
http://brunoloturco.site.uniroma1.it/
http://www.lettere.uniroma1.it/user/459


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From mmdesh at umich.edu  Mon Apr  3 01:02:37 2017
From: mmdesh at umich.edu (Madhav Deshpande)
Date: Sun, 02 Apr 17 21:02:37 -0400
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Question
Message-ID: <CAB3-dzdvN7XvqyNNAN2rYk73d7DkZq_LFiZc8EM=1ybjUZk1AA@mail.gmail.com>

I came across the anouncement of the Band IV of Altindische Grammatik of
Wackernagel-Debrunner, Verbum und Adverbum (in Vorbereitung), in the
Register volume for the first three volumes published by Richard Hauschild
in 1964 (on the back of the cover page).  Was this volume dealing with
"Verbum und Adverbum" ever published?  I have looked around, but not found
such a volume.

Madhav Deshpande
Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA


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From jemhouben at gmail.com  Mon Apr  3 03:48:55 2017
From: jemhouben at gmail.com (Jan E.M. Houben)
Date: Mon, 03 Apr 17 05:48:55 +0200
Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_[INDOLOGY]=09less_well-known_G=C4=ABtagovinda_translations?=
In-Reply-To: <CAAiVBEVD+uaf31ZAaT8RSCAeRCrAw8SnVq4yP7rXegw3M+cQ5g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAGCGLoBewb=NY1kuzSB=xsxSNO5oB_PrSwYuuZwcy5_u80TQ3w@mail.gmail.com>

Dear Jesse,
There is a translation from Sanskrit into Dutch verses by Barend Faddegon
(Santpoort, 1932), otherwise known for his work on P??inian grammar,
Vai?e?ika, and S?maveda.
Jan Houben



*Jan E.M. HOUBEN*

Directeur d??tudes

Sources et histoire de la tradition sanskrite

Professor of South Asian History and Philologie

*?cole Pratique des Hautes ?tudes*

*Sciences historiques et philologiques *

54, rue Saint-Jacques

CS 20525 ? 75005 Paris

johannes.houben at ephe.sorbonne.fr

https://ephe-sorbonne.academia.edu/JanEMHouben

www.ephe.fr


On 2 April 2017 at 22:58, Jesse Knutson via INDOLOGY <
indology at list.indology.info> wrote:

> Can anyone tell me if the 12th/13th century Sanskrit poem G?tagovinda has
> been translated into any Slavic or east Asian languages? or any other
> languages that people might be less commonly aware of? Latin, French,
> Italian, Spanish, German, English, etc. accounted for. Best, ??????,J
> --
> Jesse Ross Knutson PhD
> Assistant Professor of Sanskrit and Bengali, Department of Indo-Pacific
> Languages and Literatures
> University of Hawai'i at M?noa
> 461 Spalding
>
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
> committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
> unsubscribe)
>


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From adheesh1 at gmail.com  Mon Apr  3 04:21:12 2017
From: adheesh1 at gmail.com (Adheesh Sathaye)
Date: Sun, 02 Apr 17 21:21:12 -0700
Subject: [INDOLOGY] World Sanskrit Conference 2018 Paper/Panel Abstract Submission is NOW OPEN
Message-ID: <B23E2F7D-D0A0-4B3B-BEC8-1CC1D0EC6A17@gmail.com>

Dear Colleagues,

We are pleased to announce that the submission process has now begun for the 17th World Sanskrit Conference, to be held in Vancouver, BC, Canada, July 9-13, 2018. You now have the opportunity to submit an individual paper to be delivered within one of the 24 Sections of the 17th World Sanskrit Conference, or to propose a special panel consisting of 3 or 4 thematically related papers. 

Please click HERE <https://wsc.ubcsanskrit.ca/ocs/wsc/2018/schedConf/cfp> to begin the abstract submission process.

The deadlines for submission are as follows: 

	? Special Panel Proposals: July 1, 2017 (Results announced August 2017)
	? Individual Paper Abstracts: October 1, 2017 (Results announced January 2018)

Individual papers shall be allotted a total of 30 minutes (20 min. presentation + 10 min. discussion), while special panels will be allotted 2-hour or 90-minute time blocks. Papers & panels may be delivered in English or French (the national languages of Canada) or in Sanskrit. 

Due to limited resources, each participant may present only one paper (or special panel) within the 17th WSC. However, if you propose a special panel and it does not get approved, you will still have the option of submitting an individual paper for inclusion into WSC2018.

To submit an abstract for an individual paper (300 words) or special panel (500 words), please visit the main conference website, or click directly on the link in this email. Submissions may be made using Roman and/or ???????? scripts, and you will have the option to include a PDF version of your abstract to ensure consistency.

All abstracts will then undergo a blind peer review process by members of the WSC2018 Academic Advisory Board (consisting of the Convenors and Organizing Committee) to determine whether they are suitable for inclusion into the WSC2018 Conference Program. All decisions made by the Board will be final, and revisions are not permitted once the decision is made.

SPECIAL NOTE: Scholars interested in participating in Section 19, "Computational Sanskrit and Digital Humanities" will be asked to submit COMPLETE papers, rather than abstracts, for inclusion into the Section Proceedings, which will be assembled in advance of the conference. Further details are made available on the WSC2018 website.

Please click HERE <https://wsc.ubcsanskrit.ca/ocs/wsc/2018/schedConf/cfp> to begin the abstract submission process.

Details regarding registration fees, accommodations, excursions and other expenses are unavailable at this time, but will be announced as they become finalized. 

For further information or guidance, please contact the WSC 2018 Secretariat at wsc2018 at ubcsanskrit.ca, and be sure to consult the official conference website, wsc.ubcsanskrit.ca <https://wsc.ubcsanskrit.ca/>, for the most up-to-date information. 


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From jemhouben at gmail.com  Mon Apr  3 04:21:23 2017
From: jemhouben at gmail.com (Jan E.M. Houben)
Date: Mon, 03 Apr 17 06:21:23 +0200
Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_[INDOLOGY]=09less_well-known_G=C4=ABtagovinda_translations?=
In-Reply-To: <CAGCGLoBewb=NY1kuzSB=xsxSNO5oB_PrSwYuuZwcy5_u80TQ3w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAGCGLoBTxXheFzzNrG-aeV90BzcDK79SboqKVT8w=Ht7CU02rg@mail.gmail.com>

NB Since you write that French has been taken care of, you must be aware of
the translation by Hippolyte Fouch? of 1850.

On 3 April 2017 at 05:48, Jan E.M. Houben <jemhouben at gmail.com> wrote:

> Dear Jesse,
> There is a translation from Sanskrit into Dutch verses by Barend Faddegon
> (Santpoort, 1932), otherwise known for his work on P??inian grammar,
> Vai?e?ika, and S?maveda.
> Jan Houben
>
>
>
> *Jan E.M. HOUBEN*
>
> Directeur d??tudes
>
> Sources et histoire de la tradition sanskrite
>
> Professor of South Asian History and Philologie
>
> *?cole Pratique des Hautes ?tudes*
>
> *Sciences historiques et philologiques *
>
> 54, rue Saint-Jacques
>
> CS 20525 ? 75005 Paris
>
> johannes.houben at ephe.sorbonne.fr
>
> https://ephe-sorbonne.academia.edu/JanEMHouben
>
> www.ephe.fr
>
>
> On 2 April 2017 at 22:58, Jesse Knutson via INDOLOGY <
> indology at list.indology.info> wrote:
>
>> Can anyone tell me if the 12th/13th century Sanskrit poem G?tagovinda has
>> been translated into any Slavic or east Asian languages? or any other
>> languages that people might be less commonly aware of? Latin, French,
>> Italian, Spanish, German, English, etc. accounted for. Best, ??????,J
>> --
>> Jesse Ross Knutson PhD
>> Assistant Professor of Sanskrit and Bengali, Department of Indo-Pacific
>> Languages and Literatures
>> University of Hawai'i at M?noa
>> 461 Spalding
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
>> committee)
>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
>> unsubscribe)
>>
>
>


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From jknutson at hawaii.edu  Mon Apr  3 04:38:55 2017
From: jknutson at hawaii.edu (Jesse Knutson)
Date: Sun, 02 Apr 17 18:38:55 -1000
Subject: =?utf-8?Q?[INDOLOGY]_thanks_to_everyone_for_info_about_G=C4=ABtagovinda_transltions?=
Message-ID: <CAAiVBEUYUmOaHaM98SYKsfqDxVcCm_6494HM5+9qQmrOz78zqg@mail.gmail.com>

Dear All, Thanks so much for your help in tracing an array of G?tagovinda
translations. I think it is likely one of the most translated works of all,
despite being so utterly untranslatable. Best, ??????J

-- 
Jesse Ross Knutson PhD
Assistant Professor of Sanskrit and Bengali, Department of Indo-Pacific
Languages and Literatures
University of Hawai'i at M?noa
461 Spalding


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From slaje at kabelmail.de  Mon Apr  3 05:20:09 2017
From: slaje at kabelmail.de (Walter Slaje)
Date: Mon, 03 Apr 17 07:20:09 +0200
Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_[INDOLOGY]=09less_well-known_G=C4=ABtagovinda_translations?=
In-Reply-To: <626E499F-ABF3-4545-8F88-6DD6A8975621@uni-bonn.de>
Message-ID: <CALoZ1nVDnJzNdHyYOD0RR9YkCsyb0oZ0_uN=snD82jLc12Cygg@mail.gmail.com>

The latest German translation (with abundant annotations) is:
"Jayadeva: G?tagovinda. Lieder zum Lob Govindas." Translated by Erwin
Steinbach.
Frankfurt /M.: Verlag der Weltreligionen 2008.

Regards,
WS


-----------------------------
Prof. Dr. Walter Slaje
Hermann-L?ns-Str. 1
D-99425 Weimar
Deutschland

Ego ex animi mei sententia spondeo ac polliceor
studia humanitatis impigro labore culturum et provecturum
non sordidi lucri causa nec ad vanam captandam gloriam,
sed quo magis veritas propagetur et lux eius, qua salus
humani generis continetur, clarius effulgeat.
Vindobonae, die XXI. mensis Novembris MCMLXXXIII.

2017-04-02 23:27 GMT+02:00 Peter Wyzlic via INDOLOGY <
indology at list.indology.info>:

>
> Am 02.04.2017 um 22:58 schrieb Jesse Knutson via INDOLOGY <
> indology at list.indology.info>:
>
> Can anyone tell me if the 12th/13th century Sanskrit poem G?tagovinda has
> been translated into any Slavic or east Asian languages? or any other
> languages that people might be less commonly aware of? Latin, French,
> Italian, Spanish, German, English, etc. accounted for. Best, ??????,J
>
>
> To mention a Latin and German translation:
>
> Edition of the Sanskrit text with Latin translation by Christian Lassen:
> _Gita Govinda, Jayadevae poetae Indici drama lyricum_, Bonnae 1836,  see
> e.g. Google Books (URL: <https://books.google.de/
> books?id=0zpNAAAAcAAJ&hl=de&pg=PT4#v=onepage&q&f=false>)
>
> first hand German translation by Friedrich R?ckert: Gita-Gowinda aus dem
> Sanskrit ?bersetzt von Friedrich R?ckert, in: _Zeitschrift f?r die Kunde
> des Morgenlandes_ 1.1837, pp. 129-173, see e.g. Google Books (URL: <
> https://books.google.de/books?id=ogg-AAAAcAAJ&hl=de&
> pg=PA129#v=onepage&q&f=false>). In the 20th c. this has been re-published
>  e.g. under the title: _Gita Gowinda oder Die Liebe des Krischna und der
> Radha_ (Berlin 1920, bibliophile edition with lithographs) and as part of
> _Indische Liebeslyrik_ ed. by Helmuth von Glasenapp (Munich 1921) and so on.
>
> All the best
> Peter Wyzlic
>
>
> --
> Institut f?r Orient- und Asienwissenschaften
> Bibliothek
> Universit?t Bonn
> Regina-Pacis-Weg 7
> 53113 Bonn
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
> committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
> unsubscribe)
>


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From slaje at kabelmail.de  Mon Apr  3 05:25:57 2017
From: slaje at kabelmail.de (Walter Slaje)
Date: Mon, 03 Apr 17 07:25:57 +0200
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Question
In-Reply-To: <CAB3-dzdvN7XvqyNNAN2rYk73d7DkZq_LFiZc8EM=1ybjUZk1AA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CALoZ1nWfR0xwWMR1vZPDuy5te_SJ420ULmQf+83yKUWPC5z6nw@mail.gmail.com>

This project was never brought to fruition. A successor to follow in the
footsteps of Wackernagel & Debrunner did not emerge.

Regards,
WS

-----------------------------
Prof. Dr. Walter Slaje
Hermann-L?ns-Str. 1
D-99425 Weimar
Deutschland

Ego ex animi mei sententia spondeo ac polliceor
studia humanitatis impigro labore culturum et provecturum
non sordidi lucri causa nec ad vanam captandam gloriam,
sed quo magis veritas propagetur et lux eius, qua salus
humani generis continetur, clarius effulgeat.
Vindobonae, die XXI. mensis Novembris MCMLXXXIII.

2017-04-03 3:02 GMT+02:00 Madhav Deshpande via INDOLOGY <
indology at list.indology.info>:

> I came across the anouncement of the Band IV of Altindische Grammatik of
> Wackernagel-Debrunner, Verbum und Adverbum (in Vorbereitung), in the
> Register volume for the first three volumes published by Richard Hauschild
> in 1964 (on the back of the cover page).  Was this volume dealing with
> "Verbum und Adverbum" ever published?  I have looked around, but not found
> such a volume.
>
> Madhav Deshpande
> Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA
>
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
> committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
> unsubscribe)
>


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From csaba_dezso at yahoo.co.uk  Mon Apr  3 06:20:25 2017
From: csaba_dezso at yahoo.co.uk (Csaba Dezso)
Date: Mon, 03 Apr 17 08:20:25 +0200
Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_[INDOLOGY]_less_well-known_G=C4=ABtagovinda_translations?=
In-Reply-To: <CAAiVBEVD+uaf31ZAaT8RSCAeRCrAw8SnVq4yP7rXegw3M+cQ5g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <D2D66E90-5012-4DA2-A206-4C24BF1DD949@yahoo.co.uk>

Dear Jesse,

Do Ugric languages count? There is a brilliant metrical Hungarian translation, a collaborative effort of the Sanskritist J?zsef Vekerdi, who made a prose translation from the Sanskrit and of the poet S?ndor We?res who versified it.

Dzsajad?va, G?ta Govinda. P?sztor?nek. Magvet?, Budapest, 1982.

Best,
Csaba



> 2017. ?pr. 2. d?tummal, 22:58 id?pontban Jesse Knutson via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info> ?rta:
> 
> Can anyone tell me if the 12th/13th century Sanskrit poem G?tagovinda has been translated into any Slavic or east Asian languages? or any other languages that people might be less commonly aware of? Latin, French, Italian, Spanish, German, English, etc. accounted for. Best, ??????,J
> -- 
> Jesse Ross Knutson PhD
> Assistant Professor of Sanskrit and Bengali, Department of Indo-Pacific Languages and Literatures
> University of Hawai'i at M?noa
> 461 Spalding
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe)



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From H.J.H.Tieken at hum.leidenuniv.nl  Mon Apr  3 06:41:54 2017
From: H.J.H.Tieken at hum.leidenuniv.nl (Tieken, H.J.H.)
Date: Mon, 03 Apr 17 06:41:54 +0000
Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_[INDOLOGY]_less_well-known_G=C4=ABtagovinda_translations?=
In-Reply-To: <CAAiVBEVD+uaf31ZAaT8RSCAeRCrAw8SnVq4yP7rXegw3M+cQ5g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <EA8F815D502BC14097213C5D85BA1C652E09DDD1@SPMXM07.VUW.leidenuniv.nl>

For a (metrical) Dutch translation:

G?ta-G?winda. Pastorale van Djajad?wa in Nederlandsche verzen overgebracht door Dr. B. Faddegon. Santpoort: Uitgeverij C. A. Mees, 1932.

I suppose you already know my publications on the genre:

1) "The Genre of the G?tagovinda". In Cracow Indological Studies IV-V (2002-2003), pp. 587-608,
2) "Songs accompanied by so-called bha?it?s in dramatic texts". In Indisches Theater: Text, Theorie, Praxis. 2010, pp. 63-75.
3) K?vya in South India. Old Tamil Ca?kam Poetry. Reprint 2017.

For pdfs of the two articles, see my website.

Herman Tieken

Herman Tieken
Stationsweg 58
2515 BP Den Haag
The Netherlands
00 31 (0)70 2208127
website: hermantieken.com<http://hermantieken.com/>
________________________________
Van: INDOLOGY [indology-bounces at list.indology.info] namens Jesse Knutson via INDOLOGY [indology at list.indology.info]
Verzonden: zondag 2 april 2017 22:58
Aan: Indology
Onderwerp: [INDOLOGY] less well-known G?tagovinda translations

Can anyone tell me if the 12th/13th century Sanskrit poem G?tagovinda has been translated into any Slavic or east Asian languages? or any other languages that people might be less commonly aware of? Latin, French, Italian, Spanish, German, English, etc. accounted for. Best, ??????,J
--
Jesse Ross Knutson PhD
Assistant Professor of Sanskrit and Bengali, Department of Indo-Pacific Languages and Literatures
University of Hawai'i at M?noa
461 Spalding


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From mkapstei at uchicago.edu  Mon Apr  3 06:56:12 2017
From: mkapstei at uchicago.edu (Matthew Kapstein)
Date: Mon, 03 Apr 17 06:56:12 +0000
Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_[INDOLOGY]_less_well-known_G=C4=ABtagovinda_translations?=
In-Reply-To: <EA8F815D502BC14097213C5D85BA1C652E09DDD1@SPMXM07.VUW.leidenuniv.nl>
Message-ID: <82C3E42590D939418C74DD76B97DDED047C23CDE@xm-mbx-06-prod>

There appears to be at least one Japanese translation, though I have not so far been
able to establish the details. I imagine that there are numbers of translations/paraphrases/commentaries
in the modern languages of India, as well.

Matthew Kapstein
Directeur d'?tudes,
Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes

Numata Visiting Professor of Buddhist Studies,
The University of Chicago
________________________________



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From georges.pinault at wanadoo.fr  Mon Apr  3 07:26:36 2017
From: georges.pinault at wanadoo.fr (Georges PINAULT)
Date: Mon, 03 Apr 17 09:26:36 +0200
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Question
In-Reply-To: <CALoZ1nWfR0xwWMR1vZPDuy5te_SJ420ULmQf+83yKUWPC5z6nw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1199076093.2205.1491204396690.JavaMail.www@wwinf1j13>

Dear All,??? Thanks for the question. The statement of Prof. Walter Slaje is perfectly correct. I would simply add that the late Karl Hoffmann (Erlangen) was in charge of making the so-called "verb volume" of the Altindische Grammatik, and he made a lot of preparatory work for that, which can be found in his Aufs?tze zur Indoiranistik, 3 volumes. He was certainly the best expert in that matter. He had several pupils in the same field of expertise, among them Johanna Narten and Toshifumi Goto. I assume that the so-called Erlangen school was the best qualified staff to make this long-awaited work, but it did not succeed for several reasons which belong to history. I may give this information, because I had the chance to meet all the actors of this venture. Now, in present times, very few scholars are able to invest the whole of their time in long-time and demanding projects, such as grammars and dictionaries, not to speak of editions and translations of texts.
Best regards,???? Georges-Jean Pinault 
?
?
?
?
> Message du 03/04/17 07:27> De : "Walter Slaje via INDOLOGY" > A : "Madhav Deshpande" > Copie ? : "bvparishat at googlegroups.com" , "indology at list.indology.info" > Objet : Re: [INDOLOGY] Question> >

This project was never brought to fruition. A successor to follow in the footsteps of Wackernagel & Debrunner did not emerge.> >
Regards,>
WS>



-----------------------------> Prof. Dr. Walter Slaje> Hermann-L?ns-Str. 1> D-99425 Weimar> Deutschland> > Ego ex animi mei sententia spondeo ac polliceor> studia humanitatis impigro labore culturum et provecturum> non sordidi lucri causa nec ad vanam captandam gloriam,> sed quo magis veritas propagetur et lux eius, qua salus> humani generis continetur, clarius effulgeat.> Vindobonae, die XXI. mensis Novembris MCMLXXXIII. > 


>
2017-04-03 3:02 GMT+02:00 Madhav Deshpande via INDOLOGY :>

I came across the anouncement of the Band IV of Altindische Grammatik of Wackernagel-Debrunner, Verbum und Adverbum (in Vorbereitung), in the Register volume for the first three volumes published by Richard Hauschild in 1964 (on the back of the cover page).? Was this volume dealing with "Verbum und Adverbum" ever published?? I have looked around, but not found such a volume.
>
Madhav Deshpande
Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA

> _______________________________________________> INDOLOGY mailing list> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee)> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe)>

>

_______________________________________________INDOLOGY mailing listINDOLOGY at list.indology.infoindology-owner@list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee)http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe)


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From christophe.vielle at uclouvain.be  Mon Apr  3 08:08:10 2017
From: christophe.vielle at uclouvain.be (Christophe Vielle)
Date: Mon, 03 Apr 17 10:08:10 +0200
Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_[INDOLOGY]_less_well-known_G=C4=ABtagovinda_translations?=
In-Reply-To: <CAGCGLoBTxXheFzzNrG-aeV90BzcDK79SboqKVT8w=Ht7CU02rg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <6C61A7AA-3B9B-4C2B-8A0D-A945D2DE867D@uclouvain.be>

Hippolyte Fauche (1850)
https://books.google.be/books?id=Qq9DAAAAYAAJ
Also in French:
? Le G?ta-Govinda, Pastorale de Jayadeva, traduit par M. Gaston Courtillier, avec une pr?face de Sylvain L?vi, Paris: Ernest Leroux, 1904, reprint L'Asiath?que, 1977.
? Le G?tagovinda : tradition et innovation dans le k?vya, [par] Stella Sandahl, Stockholm: Almqvist och Wiksell, Acta Universitatis Stockholmiensis - Stockholm Oriental Studies 11, 1977.
? Le G?ta-Govinda de Jayadeva, texte, concordance et index, [par] Henri Quellet, Hildesheim: Olms, 1978.
? Jayad?va, G?ta-Govinda, pr?fac? et traduit du sanskrit par Jean Varenne, Paris: ?ditions du Rocher, 1991.

Le 3 avr. 2017 ? 06:21, Jan E.M. Houben via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info> a ?crit :

> NB Since you write that French has been taken care of, you must be aware of the translation by Hippolyte Fouch? of 1850. 
> 
> On 3 April 2017 at 05:48, Jan E.M. Houben <jemhouben at gmail.com> wrote:
> Dear Jesse, 
> There is a translation from Sanskrit into Dutch verses by Barend Faddegon (Santpoort, 1932), otherwise known for his work on P??inian grammar, Vai?e?ika, and S?maveda. 
> Jan Houben
> 
>       
> 
> Jan E.M. HOUBEN
> Directeur d??tudes
> Sources et histoire de la tradition sanskrite
> Professor of South Asian History and Philologie
> ?cole Pratique des Hautes ?tudes
> Sciences historiques et philologiques 
> 54, rue Saint-Jacques
> CS 20525 ? 75005 Paris
> johannes.houben at ephe.sorbonne.fr
> https://ephe-sorbonne.academia.edu/JanEMHouben
> www.ephe.fr
> 
> On 2 April 2017 at 22:58, Jesse Knutson via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info> wrote:
> Can anyone tell me if the 12th/13th century Sanskrit poem G?tagovinda has been translated into any Slavic or east Asian languages? or any other languages that people might be less commonly aware of? Latin, French, Italian, Spanish, German, English, etc. accounted for. Best, ??????,J
> -- 
> Jesse Ross Knutson PhD
> Assistant Professor of Sanskrit and Bengali, Department of Indo-Pacific Languages and Literatures
> University of Hawai'i at M?noa
> 461 Spalding
> 
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe)
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe)

???????????????????
Christophe Vielle
Louvain-la-Neuve



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From danbalogh at gmail.com  Mon Apr  3 08:29:28 2017
From: danbalogh at gmail.com (=?utf-8?Q?Balogh_D=C3=A1niel?=)
Date: Mon, 03 Apr 17 10:29:28 +0200
Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_[INDOLOGY]_less_well-known_G=C4=ABtagovinda_translations?=
In-Reply-To: <D2D66E90-5012-4DA2-A206-4C24BF1DD949@yahoo.co.uk>
Message-ID: <decd6507-14cb-e603-305b-69fe26a03663@gmail.com>


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From christophe.vielle at uclouvain.be  Mon Apr  3 09:53:33 2017
From: christophe.vielle at uclouvain.be (Christophe Vielle)
Date: Mon, 03 Apr 17 11:53:33 +0200
Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_[INDOLOGY]_less_well-known_G=C4=ABtagovinda_translations?=
In-Reply-To: <6C61A7AA-3B9B-4C2B-8A0D-A945D2DE867D@uclouvain.be>
Message-ID: <16EAF08B-F714-4145-BEF9-BC502BC28205@uclouvain.be>

More in French:
? G?ta-govinda, L?Ode au divin vacher, Gita Govinda, trad. Dominique Wohlschlag, Lausanne : ?d. de l?Aire, 1991, 1996.

? Translation by [Pierre-]E[ug?ne] Lamairesse : ?Gita govinda (le chant du berger), po?me de Jayad?va? pp. 244-266 of his translation of Le Kama Soutra. R?gles de l?Amour de Vatsyayana (morale des Brahmanes), Paris : Georges Carr?, 1891. See : https://www.notesdumontroyal.com/note/187

? Shri Jayadeva, Les Amours de Krishna, Version fran?aise de Fran?ois di Dio, Parvati Gosh, Nicole M?nant, Pr?face de Marguerite Yourcenar (? Sur quelques th?mes ?rotiques et mystiques de la ?Gita-govinda? ?), Paris : ?ditions ?mile Paul, 1957. Note also the LP of Maurice B?jart (reader) and Savitry Nair (singer), ?Le Gita-Govinda - Chant d?amour de Krishna?, s.d. but related to the Ballet Bhakti of Maurice B?jart [1968] - the text of the LP is attributed to Yourcenar : https://www.discogs.com/fr/Maurice-B?jart-Savitry-Nair-Chant-Damour-De-Krishna/release/3442075



In German, the translation of William Jones (1792) was rendered into German by Friederich Maier (Majer) in 1802 : Gita-Govinda : ein indisches Singspiel von Jajadeva, Weimar : Verl. des Landes-Industrie-Comptoirs

https://books.google.be/books?id=HzxIAAAAcAA

And also by F. H. von Dalberg : Gita-Govinda oder die Ges?nge Jajadeva?s, eines altindischen Dichters, Erfurt : Beyer und Maring, 1802.

https://books.google.be/books?id=uIo-AAAAcAAJ

https://books.google.be/books?id=IpUyAQAAMAAJ

https://books.google.be/books?id=mNlVAAAAcAAJ



In nederlands, er is ok :

Een wrede zon: Jayadeva?s Gitagovinda, vertaald door Paul J.C.L. Van der Velde, Budel : Damon, 2007.



Le 3 avr. 2017 ? 10:08, Christophe Vielle via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info> a ?crit :

> Hippolyte Fauche (1850)
> https://books.google.be/books?id=Qq9DAAAAYAAJ
> Also in French:
> ? Le G?ta-Govinda, Pastorale de Jayadeva, traduit par M. Gaston Courtillier, avec une pr?face de Sylvain L?vi, Paris: Ernest Leroux, 1904, reprint L'Asiath?que, 1977.
> ? Le G?tagovinda : tradition et innovation dans le k?vya, [par] Stella Sandahl, Stockholm: Almqvist och Wiksell, Acta Universitatis Stockholmiensis - Stockholm Oriental Studies 11, 1977.
> ? Le G?ta-Govinda de Jayadeva, texte, concordance et index, [par] Henri Quellet, Hildesheim: Olms, 1978.
> ? Jayad?va, G?ta-Govinda, pr?fac? et traduit du sanskrit par Jean Varenne, Paris[-Monaco]: ?ditions du Rocher, 1991.
> 
> Le 3 avr. 2017 ? 06:21, Jan E.M. Houben via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info> a ?crit :
> 
>> NB Since you write that French has been taken care of, you must be aware of the translation by Hippolyte Fouch? of 1850. 
>> 
>> On 3 April 2017 at 05:48, Jan E.M. Houben <jemhouben at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Dear Jesse, 
>> There is a translation from Sanskrit into Dutch verses by Barend Faddegon (Santpoort, 1932), otherwise known for his work on P??inian grammar, Vai?e?ika, and S?maveda. 
>> Jan Houben
>> 
>>       
>> 
>> Jan E.M. HOUBEN
>> Directeur d??tudes
>> Sources et histoire de la tradition sanskrite
>> Professor of South Asian History and Philologie
>> ?cole Pratique des Hautes ?tudes
>> Sciences historiques et philologiques 
>> 54, rue Saint-Jacques
>> CS 20525 ? 75005 Paris
>> johannes.houben at ephe.sorbonne.fr
>> https://ephe-sorbonne.academia.edu/JanEMHouben
>> www.ephe.fr
>> 
>> On 2 April 2017 at 22:58, Jesse Knutson via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info> wrote:
>> Can anyone tell me if the 12th/13th century Sanskrit poem G?tagovinda has been translated into any Slavic or east Asian languages? or any other languages that people might be less commonly aware of? Latin, French, Italian, Spanish, German, English, etc. accounted for. Best, ??????,J
>> -- 
>> Jesse Ross Knutson PhD
>> Assistant Professor of Sanskrit and Bengali, Department of Indo-Pacific Languages and Literatures
>> University of Hawai'i at M?noa
>> 461 Spalding
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee)
>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe)
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee)
>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe)
> 
> ???????????????????
> Christophe Vielle
> Louvain-la-Neuve
> 
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe)

???????????????????
Christophe Vielle
Louvain-la-Neuve



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From mmdesh at umich.edu  Mon Apr  3 11:00:38 2017
From: mmdesh at umich.edu (Madhav Deshpande)
Date: Mon, 03 Apr 17 07:00:38 -0400
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Question
In-Reply-To: <1199076093.2205.1491204396690.JavaMail.www@wwinf1j13>
Message-ID: <CAB3-dze+yCT7LoPjwD=U9vQ+1ejrd9kKG=YYVWeh_nD6GKEy6A@mail.gmail.com>

Thanks to everyone who contributed to this discussion.

Madhav Deshpande
Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA

On Mon, Apr 3, 2017 at 3:26 AM, Georges PINAULT <georges.pinault at wanadoo.fr>
wrote:

> Dear All,    Thanks for the question. The statement of Prof. Walter Slaje
> is perfectly correct. I would simply add that the late Karl Hoffmann
> (Erlangen) was in charge of making the so-called "verb volume" of the
> Altindische Grammatik, and he made a lot of preparatory work for that,
> which can be found in his Aufs?tze zur Indoiranistik, 3 volumes. He was
> certainly the best expert in that matter. He had several pupils in the same
> field of expertise, among them Johanna Narten and Toshifumi Goto. I assume
> that the so-called Erlangen school was the best qualified staff to make
> this long-awaited work, but it did not succeed for several reasons which
> belong to history. I may give this information, because I had the chance to
> meet all the actors of this venture. Now, in present times, very few
> scholars are able to invest the whole of their time in long-time and
> demanding projects, such as grammars and dictionaries, not to speak of
> editions and translations of texts.
>
> Best regards,     Georges-Jean Pinault
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > Message du 03/04/17 07:27
> > De : "Walter Slaje via INDOLOGY" <indology at list.indology.info>
> > A : "Madhav Deshpande" <mmdesh at umich.edu>
> > Copie ? : "bvparishat at googlegroups.com" <bvparishat at googlegroups.com>, "
> indology at list.indology.info" <indology at list.indology.info>
> > Objet : Re: [INDOLOGY] Question
>
> >
> >
> This project was never brought to fruition. A successor to follow in the
> footsteps of Wackernagel & Debrunner did not emerge.
> >
> >
> Regards,
> >
> WS
> >
>
> -----------------------------
> > Prof. Dr. Walter Slaje
> > Hermann-L?ns-Str. 1
> > D-99425 Weimar
> > Deutschland
> >
> > Ego ex animi mei sententia spondeo ac polliceor
> > studia humanitatis impigro labore culturum et provecturum
> > non sordidi lucri causa nec ad vanam captandam gloriam,
> > sed quo magis veritas propagetur et lux eius, qua salus
> > humani generis continetur, clarius effulgeat.
> > Vindobonae, die XXI. mensis Novembris MCMLXXXIII.
> >
>
> >
> 2017-04-03 3:02 GMT+02:00 Madhav Deshpande via INDOLOGY <
> indology at list.indology.info>:
> >
>>
>> I came across the anouncement of the Band IV of Altindische Grammatik of
>> Wackernagel-Debrunner, Verbum und Adverbum (in Vorbereitung), in the
>> Register volume for the first three volumes published by Richard Hauschild
>> in 1964 (on the back of the cover page).  Was this volume dealing with
>> "Verbum und Adverbum" ever published?  I have looked around, but not found
>> such a volume.
>>
>> >
>> Madhav Deshpande
>> Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA
>>
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > INDOLOGY mailing list
>> > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>> > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
>> committee)
>> > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options
>> or unsubscribe)
>> >
>
>
> >
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
> committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
> unsubscribe)
>
>


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From shalinisinha90 at hotmail.com  Mon Apr  3 13:14:50 2017
From: shalinisinha90 at hotmail.com (Shalini Sinha)
Date: Mon, 03 Apr 17 13:14:50 +0000
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Conference Reminder: "Self and Attention: Cross-Cultural Perspectives, " 22 April, University of Reading
Message-ID: <HE1PR02MB13234AE9C8CDCC258E878C44C3080@HE1PR02MB1323.eurprd02.prod.outlook.com>


Ratio Conference 2017
University of Reading

Self and Attention: Cross-Cultural Perspectives
Saturday 22 April, 2017

Speakers:
Jonardon Ganeri (NYU), ?The Role of Attention in Buddhist Philosophy of Mind?
Amber Carpenter (Yale-NUS), ?Attention as a Means of Self-Dissolution and Reformation?
Jan Westerhoff (Oxford), ?Language, Truth, and Meaning in Madhyamaka?
Jake Davis (NYU), ?Virtues of Attention?
Sebastian Watzl (Oslo), ?Consciousness and No Self??
James Stazicker (Reading), ?Attention as Visual Determinacy?

?20, ?10 (students & concessions) ? includes lunch & refreshments.
Student bursaries are available

Registration: 9.30-10.00 am. The final talk ends at 5.30 pm
Please book online:  http://store.rdg.ac/2017AprRatioConference

Further information:  https://ratioconference.wordpress.com

or contact Shalini Sinha,  shalini.sinha at reading.ac.uk


Venue: Room G10, Henley Business School, University of Reading, Whiteknights, Reading RG6 6UD

Thanks to The Mind Association, The Analysis Trust and the NYU Virtues of Attention Project (https://wp.nyu.edu/attention/) for their support



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From jknutson at hawaii.edu  Mon Apr  3 22:53:55 2017
From: jknutson at hawaii.edu (Jesse Knutson)
Date: Mon, 03 Apr 17 12:53:55 -1000
Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_[INDOLOGY]=09less_well-known_G=C4=ABtagovinda_translations?=
In-Reply-To: <decd6507-14cb-e603-305b-69fe26a03663@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAAiVBEWp=zTN4-=J6drho-1pqnoN3tjxAi9cBKKWyTwtTcAxqw@mail.gmail.com>

Wow this is so fascinating. Thanks so much to you, Csaba, and Judit Torzok
for sharing this information with us.

On Sun, Apr 2, 2017 at 10:29 PM, Balogh D?niel via INDOLOGY <
indology at list.indology.info> wrote:

> To expand on Csaba's message below: the Hungarian translation is online at
> https://terebess.hu/keletkultinfo/dzsajadeva.html
>
> According to an anecdote, Indian listeners could recognise the G?tagovinda
> when they heard parts of this recited in Hungarian. It is indeed a
> brilliant work of translation that matches the original metres with an
> accuracy I'd estimate over 95%, and more with some licence. It also
> reproduces almost all of the rhyme/anupr?sa in the songs. That said, the
> transcreation is far from accurate content-wise, and Vekerdi remained at
> odds with We?res ever after.
>
> On 2017. 04. 03. 8:20, Csaba Dezso via INDOLOGY wrote:
>
> Dear Jesse,
>
> Do Ugric languages count? There is a brilliant metrical Hungarian
> translation, a collaborative effort of the Sanskritist J?zsef Vekerdi, who
> made a prose translation from the Sanskrit and of the poet S?ndor We?res
> who versified it.
>
> Dzsajad?va, *G?ta Govinda. P?sztor?nek. *Magvet?, Budapest, 1982.
>
> Best,
> Csaba
>
>
>
> 2017. ?pr. 2. d?tummal, 22:58 id?pontban Jesse Knutson via INDOLOGY <
> indology at list.indology.info> ?rta:
>
> Can anyone tell me if the 12th/13th century Sanskrit poem G?tagovinda has
> been translated into any Slavic or east Asian languages? or any other
> languages that people might be less commonly aware of? Latin, French,
> Italian, Spanish, German, English, etc. accounted for. Best, ??????,J --
> Jesse Ross Knutson PhD
> Assistant Professor of Sanskrit and Bengali, Department of Indo-Pacific
> Languages and Literatures
> University of Hawai'i at M?noa
> 461 Spalding
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
> committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
> unsubscribe)
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing listINDOLOGY at list.indology.infoindology-owner@list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee)http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe)
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
> committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
> unsubscribe)
>



-- 
Jesse Ross Knutson PhD
Assistant Professor of Sanskrit and Bengali, Department of Indo-Pacific
Languages and Literatures
University of Hawai'i at M?noa
461 Spalding


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From jknutson at hawaii.edu  Mon Apr  3 22:59:06 2017
From: jknutson at hawaii.edu (Jesse Knutson)
Date: Mon, 03 Apr 17 12:59:06 -1000
Subject: =?utf-8?Q?[INDOLOGY]_"G=C4=ABtagovinda:_Towards_a_Total_Understanding"?=
Message-ID: <CAAiVBEXyPee+bbR52YLPCbH7bsPj1hRGHh8XJvAmLa8cE_xNuQ@mail.gmail.com>

Dear Friends, You might have guessed that I'm working on annotated GG
bibliography. The task started out as slightly tedious, but has become very
rewarding and pleasurable thanks to your help.
I also welcome any references to lesser known articles and works you might
know of. I look forward to sharing the bibliography with you when it's done.
A propos would anyone have a soft copy of the following?
Sarkar, Ranajit (1974). *Gi?tagovinda : towards a total understanding*.
Rijksuniversiteit te Groningen, [Institute of Indian Studies], Groningen,
[Netherlands]


Thanks ??????,j
-- 
Jesse Ross Knutson PhD
Assistant Professor of Sanskrit and Bengali, Department of Indo-Pacific
Languages and Literatures
University of Hawai'i at M?noa
461 Spalding


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From nagarajpaturi at gmail.com  Tue Apr  4 03:44:51 2017
From: nagarajpaturi at gmail.com (Nagaraj Paturi)
Date: Tue, 04 Apr 17 09:14:51 +0530
Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_[INDOLOGY]=09"G=C4=ABtagovinda:_Towards_a_Total_Understanding"?=
In-Reply-To: <CAAiVBEXyPee+bbR52YLPCbH7bsPj1hRGHh8XJvAmLa8cE_xNuQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAJGj9ea8oK+nh=yqvavgt+oa0AHcfEde8CzkSQVVwq5Ym03C+Q@mail.gmail.com>

Dear Jesse,

Does your annotated GG bibliography include Indian language works too?

Congratulations and best wishes,

Nagaraj

On Tue, Apr 4, 2017 at 4:29 AM, Jesse Knutson via INDOLOGY <
indology at list.indology.info> wrote:

> Dear Friends, You might have guessed that I'm working on annotated GG
> bibliography. The task started out as slightly tedious, but has become very
> rewarding and pleasurable thanks to your help.
> I also welcome any references to lesser known articles and works you might
> know of. I look forward to sharing the bibliography with you when it's done.
> A propos would anyone have a soft copy of the following?
> Sarkar, Ranajit (1974). *Gi?tagovinda : towards a total understanding*.
> Rijksuniversiteit te Groningen, [Institute of Indian Studies], Groningen,
> [Netherlands]
>
>
> Thanks ??????,j
> --
> Jesse Ross Knutson PhD
> Assistant Professor of Sanskrit and Bengali, Department of Indo-Pacific
> Languages and Literatures
> University of Hawai'i at M?noa
> 461 Spalding
>
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
> committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
> unsubscribe)
>



-- 
Nagaraj Paturi

Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.

Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies

FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of  Liberal Education,

(Pune, Maharashtra, INDIA )


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From jknutson at hawaii.edu  Tue Apr  4 04:19:00 2017
From: jknutson at hawaii.edu (Jesse Knutson)
Date: Mon, 03 Apr 17 18:19:00 -1000
Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_[INDOLOGY]=09"G=C4=ABtagovinda:_Towards_a_Total_Understanding"?=
In-Reply-To: <CAJGj9ea8oK+nh=yqvavgt+oa0AHcfEde8CzkSQVVwq5Ym03C+Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAAiVBEV1EdjXV1NfranTNL49DEF7+108c98evQ32CYm-WOhT8w@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Nagaraj, The whole thing will be weighted toward English, but I will
include the most major stuff in some Indian (and other European) languages,
especially the major secondary works in Bengali. This will of course be
somewhat restricted to what I can read, which is pretty much only Bengali
and Hindi. I will also make at least some reference to the translations,
virtually in any Indian language you can name, as you know. There are so
many translations in Indian and other languages that I will not be able to
treat them in great detail. I think there are at least about 10 in Bengali.
I'm sure there might be even more in Oriya. So the short answer is: I will
try not to do an injustice to scholarship in Indian languages, though I
won't be able to treat it comprehensively.

One area of concern is that I cannot read Oriya, and yet I know there must
be at least some good scholarship in Oriya (apart from the flood of more
popular literature).  If you or someone you know can give me some pointers
here I would be very grateful.

Best,J



On Mon, Apr 3, 2017 at 5:44 PM, Nagaraj Paturi <nagarajpaturi at gmail.com>
wrote:

> Dear Jesse,
>
> Does your annotated GG bibliography include Indian language works too?
>
> Congratulations and best wishes,
>
> Nagaraj
>
> On Tue, Apr 4, 2017 at 4:29 AM, Jesse Knutson via INDOLOGY <
> indology at list.indology.info> wrote:
>
>> Dear Friends, You might have guessed that I'm working on annotated GG
>> bibliography. The task started out as slightly tedious, but has become very
>> rewarding and pleasurable thanks to your help.
>> I also welcome any references to lesser known articles and works you
>> might know of. I look forward to sharing the bibliography with you when
>> it's done.
>> A propos would anyone have a soft copy of the following?
>> Sarkar, Ranajit (1974). *Gi?tagovinda : towards a total understanding*.
>> Rijksuniversiteit te Groningen, [Institute of Indian Studies], Groningen,
>> [Netherlands]
>>
>>
>> Thanks ??????,j
>> --
>> Jesse Ross Knutson PhD
>> Assistant Professor of Sanskrit and Bengali, Department of Indo-Pacific
>> Languages and Literatures
>> University of Hawai'i at M?noa
>> 461 Spalding
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
>> committee)
>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
>> unsubscribe)
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Nagaraj Paturi
>
> Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.
>
> Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies
>
> FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of  Liberal Education,
>
> (Pune, Maharashtra, INDIA )
>
>
>
>



-- 
Jesse Ross Knutson PhD
Assistant Professor of Sanskrit and Bengali, Department of Indo-Pacific
Languages and Literatures
University of Hawai'i at M?noa
461 Spalding


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From slaje at kabelmail.de  Tue Apr  4 04:22:45 2017
From: slaje at kabelmail.de (Walter Slaje)
Date: Tue, 04 Apr 17 06:22:45 +0200
Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_[INDOLOGY]=09"G=C4=ABtagovinda:_Towards_a_Total_Understanding"?=
In-Reply-To: <CAAiVBEXyPee+bbR52YLPCbH7bsPj1hRGHh8XJvAmLa8cE_xNuQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CALoZ1nW7z51A11N-0E2RwwdASme0BhBuWPSrisBXK7m-pkXTbg@mail.gmail.com>

> references to lesser known articles

A quick SARDS3 test search (title / keyword) has yielded over 60 results.
You might wish to give it a try yourself:
http://www.sards.uni-halle.de/?do=query

Regards,
WS

-----------------------------
Prof. Dr. Walter Slaje
Hermann-L?ns-Str. 1
D-99425 Weimar
Deutschland

Ego ex animi mei sententia spondeo ac polliceor
studia humanitatis impigro labore culturum et provecturum
non sordidi lucri causa nec ad vanam captandam gloriam,
sed quo magis veritas propagetur et lux eius, qua salus
humani generis continetur, clarius effulgeat.
Vindobonae, die XXI. mensis Novembris MCMLXXXIII.

2017-04-04 0:59 GMT+02:00 Jesse Knutson via INDOLOGY <
indology at list.indology.info>:

> Dear Friends, You might have guessed that I'm working on annotated GG
> bibliography. The task started out as slightly tedious, but has become very
> rewarding and pleasurable thanks to your help.
> I also welcome any references to lesser known articles and works you might
> know of. I look forward to sharing the bibliography with you when it's done.
> A propos would anyone have a soft copy of the following?
> Sarkar, Ranajit (1974). *Gi?tagovinda : towards a total understanding*.
> Rijksuniversiteit te Groningen, [Institute of Indian Studies], Groningen,
> [Netherlands]
>
>
> Thanks ??????,j
> --
> Jesse Ross Knutson PhD
> Assistant Professor of Sanskrit and Bengali, Department of Indo-Pacific
> Languages and Literatures
> University of Hawai'i at M?noa
> 461 Spalding
>
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
> committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
> unsubscribe)
>


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From shrimaitreya at gmail.com  Tue Apr  4 06:43:37 2017
From: shrimaitreya at gmail.com ((Maitreya) Borayin Larios)
Date: Tue, 04 Apr 17 08:43:37 +0200
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Book Announcement
Message-ID: <CAPb4bMiQoW47LTn7VkgPFZ+dXkovkZ4qOJzbDpHA1Qb_CavEGg@mail.gmail.com>

Dear Colleagues and Friends,

Please excuse the self-promotion, but I?m really pleased to announce that
after much delay my book "Embodying the Vedas. Traditional Vedic Schools of
Contemporary Maharashtra" has finally seen the light of the day. It has
been published by De Gruyter Open and it is available and downloadable in
Open Access, as well as a hardcover. Unfortunately, the price of the book
in its printed version is very expensive, but since it is available for
free in a digital format, I think it is a good compromise.

You can get your copies and more information about the book here:
https://www.degruyter.com/view/product/480043

With best wishes,
Borayin Larios

-- 
Borayin Larios
Ezanvillestra?e 59
69118 Heidelberg
Germany
Office: (+49) 6221548939

Mobile: (+49) 17672329143

http://about.me/borayin.larios

https://uni-heidelberg.academia.edu/BorayinLarios

http://www.sai.uni-heidelberg.de/abt/IND/mitarbeiter/larios/larios.php


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From mkapstei at uchicago.edu  Tue Apr  4 10:12:28 2017
From: mkapstei at uchicago.edu (Matthew Kapstein)
Date: Tue, 04 Apr 17 10:12:28 +0000
Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_[INDOLOGY]_"G=C4=ABtagovinda:_Towards_a_Total_Understanding"?=
In-Reply-To: <CAAiVBEXyPee+bbR52YLPCbH7bsPj1hRGHh8XJvAmLa8cE_xNuQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <82C3E42590D939418C74DD76B97DDED047C242E0@xm-mbx-06-prod>

Dear Jesse,

There was a special issue of Marg devoted to the GG, published about 20 years or so ago. I have
a copy of it someplace, but it may not be see easy to locate immediately. Also, you are no doubt
aware that Kapila Vatsyayana published several volumes of illustrated manuscripts of the GG. I can
send you some of those references if you do not already have them. The text was popular, too, in Nepal,
and there is at least one well-known Nepali translation, probably more.

I do not know of a complete Tibetan translation, but it is possible that Gendun Chopel (1903-1951)
translated some selections. I will try to look into it.

good luck with this!
Matthew

Matthew Kapstein
Directeur d'?tudes,
Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes

Numata Visiting Professor of Buddhist Studies,
The University of Chicago
________________________________



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From nagarajpaturi at gmail.com  Tue Apr  4 10:26:07 2017
From: nagarajpaturi at gmail.com (Nagaraj Paturi)
Date: Tue, 04 Apr 17 15:56:07 +0530
Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_[INDOLOGY]=09"G=C4=ABtagovinda:_Towards_a_Total_Understanding"?=
In-Reply-To: <CAAiVBEV1EdjXV1NfranTNL49DEF7+108c98evQ32CYm-WOhT8w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAJGj9eYAKaVvVDkd240=RzhwhaZH0k3seQ6mNYNfsjrBgzVB3A@mail.gmail.com>

This small piece has a few pointers:

http://odisha.gov.in/e-magazine/Orissareview/may-2007/engpdf/Page46-48.pdf

On Tue, Apr 4, 2017 at 9:49 AM, Jesse Knutson <jknutson at hawaii.edu> wrote:

> Hi Nagaraj, The whole thing will be weighted toward English, but I will
> include the most major stuff in some Indian (and other European) languages,
> especially the major secondary works in Bengali. This will of course be
> somewhat restricted to what I can read, which is pretty much only Bengali
> and Hindi. I will also make at least some reference to the translations,
> virtually in any Indian language you can name, as you know. There are so
> many translations in Indian and other languages that I will not be able to
> treat them in great detail. I think there are at least about 10 in Bengali.
> I'm sure there might be even more in Oriya. So the short answer is: I will
> try not to do an injustice to scholarship in Indian languages, though I
> won't be able to treat it comprehensively.
>
> One area of concern is that I cannot read Oriya, and yet I know there must
> be at least some good scholarship in Oriya (apart from the flood of more
> popular literature).  If you or someone you know can give me some pointers
> here I would be very grateful.
>
> Best,J
>
>
>
> On Mon, Apr 3, 2017 at 5:44 PM, Nagaraj Paturi <nagarajpaturi at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Dear Jesse,
>>
>> Does your annotated GG bibliography include Indian language works too?
>>
>> Congratulations and best wishes,
>>
>> Nagaraj
>>
>> On Tue, Apr 4, 2017 at 4:29 AM, Jesse Knutson via INDOLOGY <
>> indology at list.indology.info> wrote:
>>
>>> Dear Friends, You might have guessed that I'm working on annotated GG
>>> bibliography. The task started out as slightly tedious, but has become very
>>> rewarding and pleasurable thanks to your help.
>>> I also welcome any references to lesser known articles and works you
>>> might know of. I look forward to sharing the bibliography with you when
>>> it's done.
>>> A propos would anyone have a soft copy of the following?
>>> Sarkar, Ranajit (1974). *Gi?tagovinda : towards a total understanding*.
>>> Rijksuniversiteit te Groningen, [Institute of Indian Studies], Groningen,
>>> [Netherlands]
>>>
>>>
>>> Thanks ??????,j
>>> --
>>> Jesse Ross Knutson PhD
>>> Assistant Professor of Sanskrit and Bengali, Department of Indo-Pacific
>>> Languages and Literatures
>>> University of Hawai'i at M?noa
>>> 461 Spalding
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
>>> committee)
>>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options
>>> or unsubscribe)
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Nagaraj Paturi
>>
>> Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.
>>
>> Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies
>>
>> FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of  Liberal Education,
>>
>> (Pune, Maharashtra, INDIA )
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Jesse Ross Knutson PhD
> Assistant Professor of Sanskrit and Bengali, Department of Indo-Pacific
> Languages and Literatures
> University of Hawai'i at M?noa
> 461 Spalding
>



-- 
Nagaraj Paturi

Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.

Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies

FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of  Liberal Education,

(Pune, Maharashtra, INDIA )


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From nagarajpaturi at gmail.com  Tue Apr  4 10:33:26 2017
From: nagarajpaturi at gmail.com (Nagaraj Paturi)
Date: Tue, 04 Apr 17 16:03:26 +0530
Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_[INDOLOGY]=09"G=C4=ABtagovinda:_Towards_a_Total_Understanding"?=
In-Reply-To: <CAJGj9eYAKaVvVDkd240=RzhwhaZH0k3seQ6mNYNfsjrBgzVB3A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAJGj9easSvON39=mOyV7yAs87nqkPEVC1TSGft7jsFhgAvUdMQ@mail.gmail.com>

Dharanidara Dasa translation's publication details:

Kavi-Jayadeva-krita G?ta-Govinda
(With Oriya Translation of Dharanidhara).
Dharma Grantha Store, Cuttack.

On Tue, Apr 4, 2017 at 3:56 PM, Nagaraj Paturi <nagarajpaturi at gmail.com>
wrote:

> This small piece has a few pointers:
>
> http://odisha.gov.in/e-magazine/Orissareview/may-2007/engpdf/Page46-48.pdf
>
> On Tue, Apr 4, 2017 at 9:49 AM, Jesse Knutson <jknutson at hawaii.edu> wrote:
>
>> Hi Nagaraj, The whole thing will be weighted toward English, but I will
>> include the most major stuff in some Indian (and other European) languages,
>> especially the major secondary works in Bengali. This will of course be
>> somewhat restricted to what I can read, which is pretty much only Bengali
>> and Hindi. I will also make at least some reference to the translations,
>> virtually in any Indian language you can name, as you know. There are so
>> many translations in Indian and other languages that I will not be able to
>> treat them in great detail. I think there are at least about 10 in Bengali.
>> I'm sure there might be even more in Oriya. So the short answer is: I will
>> try not to do an injustice to scholarship in Indian languages, though I
>> won't be able to treat it comprehensively.
>>
>> One area of concern is that I cannot read Oriya, and yet I know there
>> must be at least some good scholarship in Oriya (apart from the flood of
>> more popular literature).  If you or someone you know can give me some
>> pointers here I would be very grateful.
>>
>> Best,J
>>
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Apr 3, 2017 at 5:44 PM, Nagaraj Paturi <nagarajpaturi at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Dear Jesse,
>>>
>>> Does your annotated GG bibliography include Indian language works too?
>>>
>>> Congratulations and best wishes,
>>>
>>> Nagaraj
>>>
>>> On Tue, Apr 4, 2017 at 4:29 AM, Jesse Knutson via INDOLOGY <
>>> indology at list.indology.info> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Dear Friends, You might have guessed that I'm working on annotated GG
>>>> bibliography. The task started out as slightly tedious, but has become very
>>>> rewarding and pleasurable thanks to your help.
>>>> I also welcome any references to lesser known articles and works you
>>>> might know of. I look forward to sharing the bibliography with you when
>>>> it's done.
>>>> A propos would anyone have a soft copy of the following?
>>>> Sarkar, Ranajit (1974). *Gi?tagovinda : towards a total understanding*.
>>>> Rijksuniversiteit te Groningen, [Institute of Indian Studies], Groningen,
>>>> [Netherlands]
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Thanks ??????,j
>>>> --
>>>> Jesse Ross Knutson PhD
>>>> Assistant Professor of Sanskrit and Bengali, Department of Indo-Pacific
>>>> Languages and Literatures
>>>> University of Hawai'i at M?noa
>>>> 461 Spalding
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>>>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>>>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
>>>> committee)
>>>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options
>>>> or unsubscribe)
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Nagaraj Paturi
>>>
>>> Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.
>>>
>>> Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies
>>>
>>> FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of  Liberal Education,
>>>
>>> (Pune, Maharashtra, INDIA )
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Jesse Ross Knutson PhD
>> Assistant Professor of Sanskrit and Bengali, Department of Indo-Pacific
>> Languages and Literatures
>> University of Hawai'i at M?noa
>> 461 Spalding
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Nagaraj Paturi
>
> Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.
>
> Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies
>
> FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of  Liberal Education,
>
> (Pune, Maharashtra, INDIA )
>
>
>
>



-- 
Nagaraj Paturi

Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.

Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies

FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of  Liberal Education,

(Pune, Maharashtra, INDIA )


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From christophe.vielle at uclouvain.be  Tue Apr  4 10:36:35 2017
From: christophe.vielle at uclouvain.be (Christophe Vielle)
Date: Tue, 04 Apr 17 12:36:35 +0200
Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_[INDOLOGY]_"G=C4=ABtagovinda:_Towards_a_Total_Understanding"?=
In-Reply-To: <CAAiVBEV1EdjXV1NfranTNL49DEF7+108c98evQ32CYm-WOhT8w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <B69DAEDF-BC87-423C-81B4-887347CD5AD4@uclouvain.be>

The role of the GG in the birth of the Kathakali genre in Kerala is a discussed matter. Quoting Rich Freeman (?Genre and Society: The Literary  Culture of Premodern Kerala?, in Pollock ed. 2003, p. 487):

?While the form of th[e] original Sanskrit work itself has suggested that it was a performed piece, it was certainly put to this function in Kerala, where the work was known as the A??apadi. It was apparently adopted in this form by the kings of Calicut for performance in the Guruv?y?r and other K???a temples, where it developed from songs sung by temple servants before the stairs leading to the sanctum (hence, stair-song, s?p?na-g?ti) into a performance genre called a??apadiy???am (dancing of the A??apadi) presented by C?ky?rs using the gestural language (mudra) adapted from the theater. The best guess is that this genre was developed in the fifteenth or sixteenth centuries, when the Caitanya movement in Bengal (which had direct ties to south India) may have given an impetus to the K???a cult in Kerala.? [or a new impetus, since there was already in Kerala a strong K???a cult and lyrico-devotional tradition, with Bilvamangala etc., from which Caitanya himself borrowed a lot].

At the least the GG has clearly influenced the K???ag?ti, a lyrico-dramatic poem written by M?naveda (a Zamorin of Calicut) in 1652 (cf. for the dating chronogram, Kunjunni Raja, CSKL p. 102) which became the source-text for the K??????am, a special dance-drama (different from the R?ma????am viewed as the more direct predecessor of the Kathakali in the same 17th century).

It is to be noted that a verse form the GG is always sung at the beginning of a Kathakali performance as an auspicious ritual (see Paul Martin-Dubost, Le Th??tre dans? du K?rala, Paris, 1990, pp. 103-123).

The earliest translation of the GG in Malayalam seems the Bh?????apadi, by the poet R?mapurattu V?ryar (1703-1753).

>From A. Gaur, Catalogue of Malayalam Books in the British Museum, 1971, col. 110, these two references:

? d?vag?ta? g?tag?vindatti??e svatantraparibh??a. D?va-g?ta, a free translation in Malayalam verse by Ca??ampu?a K???a Pi??a, with introduction by the translator, Trichur : Mangalodayam Press, 1946.

? ma?iprav?????apadi athav? la?itag?tag?vinda?. Ma?iprav?????apadi, or La?ita-g?ta-g?vinda?, a rendering in ma?iprav??am verse, by K. V. R?ma V?riyar, Ottapalam : Kamalalaya Press, 1921.

The second one could correspond to R?mapurattu V?ryar?s work.

There must exist several other translations in Malayalam.

Below, a few references from a quick check with a local on-line bookseller (note that the second item is an edition of R?mapurattu V?ryar?s work).

Testifying for the immense popularity of the GG in Kerala : in the Malayam novel The Legend of Khasak (khas?kki??e itih?sa?) by O. V. Vijayan (1969, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khasakkinte_Itihasam ), at the end of the chapter 9 examined by Francis Zimmermann (http://ginger.tessitures.org/malayalam/fiction-contemporaine/khasak/ ) a anonymous Sanskrit stanza is quoted, which is, as I myself noticed, nothing else than GG 1.16.


Premavum Bhakthiyum

Study of Jayadevan's Geetha Govindam by Guru Nitya Chaithanya Yati. Foreword by Dr. Chathanath Achyuthanunni.
Publisher: Current Books Thrissur
Malayalam Title	???????? ????????
Pages	282
Size	Demy 1/8
Binding	Paperback
Edition	2007 November
 


Bhashashtapadi

Jayadevan's epic poem Geethagovindam, translated into Malayalam by eminent poet Ramapurath Varier, edited with a foreword by O N V Kurup. This edition also has a number of elegant line sketches by Eswaran Namboothiri.

Publisher: Chintha Publishers
Malayalam Title: ???????????
Pages: 88
Size: Demy 1/8
Binding: Paperback
Edition: 2013 November



Geethagovindam

Jayadevan's epic poem Geethagovindam, retold in prose by Dr V S Sharma. It also has a literary study by Dr Sharma.
Publisher: National Book Stall
Malayalam Title: ???????????
Pages: 118
Size: Demy 1/8
Binding: Paperback
Edition: 2011 April



Changampuzhayude Vivarthana Kavithakal

Complete collection of poems translated into Malayalam by renowned poet Changampuzha Krishna Pillai. Changampuzhayude Vivarthana Kavithakal has all his translations in poetry including Devageetha (Geethagovindam) and Divyageetham (Song of Songs). Changampuzhayude Vivarthana Kavithakal is a huge collection of great poems from world literature and Indian literature. Foreword by O N V Kurup.
Publisher: Chintha Publishers
Malayalam Title: ????????????? ???????? ??????
Pages: 272
Size: Demy 1/8
Binding: Paperback
Edition: 2009 October


Le 4 avr. 2017 ? 06:19, Jesse Knutson via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info> a ?crit :

> Hi Nagaraj, The whole thing will be weighted toward English, but I will include the most major stuff in some Indian (and other European) languages, especially the major secondary works in Bengali. This will of course be somewhat restricted to what I can read, which is pretty much only Bengali and Hindi. I will also make at least some reference to the translations, virtually in any Indian language you can name, as you know. There are so many translations in Indian and other languages that I will not be able to treat them in great detail. I think there are at least about 10 in Bengali. I'm sure there might be even more in Oriya. So the short answer is: I will try not to do an injustice to scholarship in Indian languages, though I won't be able to treat it comprehensively.    
> 
> One area of concern is that I cannot read Oriya, and yet I know there must be at least some good scholarship in Oriya (apart from the flood of more popular literature).  If you or someone you know can give me some pointers here I would be very grateful. 
> 
> Best,J
> 
> 
> 
> On Mon, Apr 3, 2017 at 5:44 PM, Nagaraj Paturi <nagarajpaturi at gmail.com> wrote:
> Dear Jesse,
> 
> Does your annotated GG bibliography include Indian language works too?
> 
> Congratulations and best wishes,
> 
> Nagaraj
> 
> On Tue, Apr 4, 2017 at 4:29 AM, Jesse Knutson via INDOLOGY<indology at list.indology.info> wrote:
> Dear Friends, You might have guessed that I'm working on annotated GG bibliography. The task started out as slightly tedious, but has become very rewarding and pleasurable thanks to your help. 
> I also welcome any references to lesser known articles and works you might know of. I look forward to sharing the bibliography with you when it's done.
> A propos would anyone have a soft copy of the following?
> Sarkar, Ranajit (1974). Gi?tagovinda : towards a total understanding. Rijksuniversiteit te Groningen, [Institute of Indian Studies], Groningen, [Netherlands]
> 
> 
> Thanks ??????,j
> -- 
> Jesse Ross Knutson PhD
> Assistant Professor of Sanskrit and Bengali, Department of Indo-Pacific Languages and Literatures
> University of Hawai'i at M?noa
> 461 Spalding
> 
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe)
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Nagaraj Paturi
>  
> Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.
>  
> Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies
>  
> FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of  Liberal Education,
>  
> (Pune, Maharashtra, INDIA )
>  
>  
>  
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Jesse Ross Knutson PhD
> Assistant Professor of Sanskrit and Bengali, Department of Indo-Pacific Languages and Literatures
> University of Hawai'i at M?noa
> 461 Spalding
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe)

???????????????????
Christophe Vielle
Louvain-la-Neuve



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From avni.m247 at gmail.com  Tue Apr  4 14:31:32 2017
From: avni.m247 at gmail.com (Avni Chag)
Date: Tue, 04 Apr 17 15:31:32 +0100
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Sanskrit Reading Room Summer Schedule
Message-ID: <CANZfdYvU7V9AWcF0XSi=j+pDEhPXr-E3qTeq2UwSOQyLU6vhzw@mail.gmail.com>

Dear Indology list members,

The Sanskrit Reading Room has had a successful start (there are a few
synopses of sessions on the blog: sanskritreadingroom.wordpress.com). We
have five more sessions planned with Prof. Diwakar Acharya, Dr. James
Hegarty, Dr. Pe?ter Sza?nto?, Dr. Theodore Proferes and Dr. Camillo
Formigatti in the summer term.

Here's the summer term schedule:

Wednesday 26 April, 3-5pm

*Dr Camillo Formigatti (Clay Sanskrit Librarian, Oxford Bodleian)*

Ka?lida?sa?s *Raghuvam?s?a *(with *Raghuvam?s?a* manuscript viewings)

The Weston Library, part of the Bodleian Library, University of Oxford

?

Wednesday 10 May, 2:45-4:45pm

*Dr Pe?ter Sza?nto? (University of Oxford)*

*Gurupan?ca?sika?*

The Old Library, All Souls College, University of Oxford

?

Wednesday 17 May, 2:45-4:45pm

*Professor Diwakar Acharya (University of Oxford)*

Purus?a?rthasamucca?ya

The Old Library, All Souls College, University of Oxford

?

Wednesday 7 June, 3-5pm

*Dr James Hegarty (Cardiff Unversity)*

Vidura and the *Mah?bh?rata* in Full:

The ?Dynamic Translation? of the Critical Edition of a Sanskrit Text

MEET 116, first floor (outside staff room), SOAS, Russell Sq.

?

Wednesday 14 June, 3-5pm

*Dr Theodore Proferes (SOAS)*

Man?d?ana Mis?ra and the prapan?ca-vilaya-va?da

S118, Senate House first floor, SOAS, Russell Sq.


Please email Avni Chag (Avni_Chag at soas.ac.uk) or Karen O'Brien Kop (
Karen_O'Brien-Kop at soas.ac.uk) for booking and other enquiries.


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From camillo.formigatti at bodleian.ox.ac.uk  Tue Apr  4 16:27:08 2017
From: camillo.formigatti at bodleian.ox.ac.uk (Camillo Formigatti)
Date: Tue, 04 Apr 17 16:27:08 +0000
Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_[INDOLOGY]_less_well-known_G=C4=ABtagovinda_translations?=
In-Reply-To: <CAAiVBEWp=zTN4-=J6drho-1pqnoN3tjxAi9cBKKWyTwtTcAxqw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <0C647B6E904DBB4BAD3A28D522DC73151DA67583@MBX05.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk>

Dear Jesse,

I don?t know if anybody has already pointed out this Italian translation, but just to be on the safe side:

Gitagovinda, o il canto del Pastore / idillio di Jayadeva ; tradotto dal sanscrito da Emilio Pinna
                Pubblicazione    Firenze : B. Seeber, 1913
                Descrizione fisica              142 p. ; 20 cm.

Best wishes,

Camillo

________________________________

Dr Camillo A. Formigatti
John Clay Sanskrit Librarian

Bodleian Libraries
The Weston Library
Broad Street
Oxford
OX1 3BG

Email: camillo.formigatti at bodleian.ox.ac.uk<mailto:camillo.formigatti at bodleian.ox.ac.uk>
Tel. (office): 01865 (2)77208
www.bodleian.ox.ac.uk<http://www.bodleian.ox.ac.uk/>

From: Jesse Knutson [mailto:jknutson at hawaii.edu]
Sent: 03 April 2017 23:54
To: Balogh D?niel <danbalogh at gmail.com>
Cc: Indology <indology at list.indology.info>
Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] less well-known G?tagovinda translations

Wow this is so fascinating. Thanks so much to you, Csaba, and Judit Torzok for sharing this information with us.

On Sun, Apr 2, 2017 at 10:29 PM, Balogh D?niel via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info<mailto:indology at list.indology.info>> wrote:

To expand on Csaba's message below: the Hungarian translation is online at https://terebess.hu/keletkultinfo/dzsajadeva.html

According to an anecdote, Indian listeners could recognise the G?tagovinda when they heard parts of this recited in Hungarian. It is indeed a brilliant work of translation that matches the original metres with an accuracy I'd estimate over 95%, and more with some licence. It also reproduces almost all of the rhyme/anupr?sa in the songs. That said, the transcreation is far from accurate content-wise, and Vekerdi remained at odds with We?res ever after.

On 2017. 04. 03. 8:20, Csaba Dezso via INDOLOGY wrote:
Dear Jesse,

Do Ugric languages count? There is a brilliant metrical Hungarian translation, a collaborative effort of the Sanskritist J?zsef Vekerdi, who made a prose translation from the Sanskrit and of the poet S?ndor We?res who versified it.

Dzsajad?va, G?ta Govinda. P?sztor?nek. Magvet?, Budapest, 1982.

Best,
Csaba



2017. ?pr. 2. d?tummal, 22:58 id?pontban Jesse Knutson via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info<mailto:indology at list.indology.info>> ?rta:

Can anyone tell me if the 12th/13th century Sanskrit poem G?tagovinda has been translated into any Slavic or east Asian languages? or any other languages that people might be less commonly aware of? Latin, French, Italian, Spanish, German, English, etc. accounted for. Best, ??????,J --
Jesse Ross Knutson PhD
Assistant Professor of Sanskrit and Bengali, Department of Indo-Pacific Languages and Literatures
University of Hawai'i at M?noa
461 Spalding
_______________________________________________
INDOLOGY mailing list
INDOLOGY at list.indology.info<mailto:INDOLOGY at list.indology.info>
indology-owner at list.indology.info<mailto:indology-owner at list.indology.info> (messages to the list's managing committee)
http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe)



_______________________________________________

INDOLOGY mailing list

INDOLOGY at list.indology.info<mailto:INDOLOGY at list.indology.info>

indology-owner at list.indology.info<mailto:indology-owner at list.indology.info> (messages to the list's managing committee)

http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe)


_______________________________________________
INDOLOGY mailing list
INDOLOGY at list.indology.info<mailto:INDOLOGY at list.indology.info>
indology-owner at list.indology.info<mailto:indology-owner at list.indology.info> (messages to the list's managing committee)
http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe)



--
Jesse Ross Knutson PhD
Assistant Professor of Sanskrit and Bengali, Department of Indo-Pacific Languages and Literatures
University of Hawai'i at M?noa
461 Spalding


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From shrimaitreya at gmail.com  Tue Apr  4 20:12:00 2017
From: shrimaitreya at gmail.com ((Maitreya) Borayin Larios)
Date: Tue, 04 Apr 17 22:12:00 +0200
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Embodying the Vedas
Message-ID: <CAPb4bMgNeA9uSndZOSkVR45dxcorLg+6OHB3n_W5g8bt5wK0jA@mail.gmail.com>

Dear Colleagues,

Some of you have pointed out that the links to download the book are hard
to find on the De Gruyter page. I agree and I have let them know as well.
To download each chapter one has to go to "Table of Contents" on the left
side of the website.
Alternatively, I have uploaded a single PDF on my Academia.edu page. This
should be easier for people to download.

Please use the following link for that:

https://www.academia.edu/32238577/Embodying_the_Vedas_-_Traditional_Vedic_Schools_of_Contemporary_Maharashtra

If you have any questions please let me know.

Thank you, everyone for your kind support.

Best wishes,
Borayin


[image: --]
Borayin Maitreya Larios
[image: http://]about.me/borayin.larios
<http://about.me/borayin.larios?promo=email_sig>
 Ezanvillestra?e 59
Germany
Office: (+49) 6221548939

Mobile: (+49) 17672329143

https://uni-heidelberg.academia.edu/BorayinLarios

http://www.sai.uni-heidelberg.de/abt/IND/mitarbeiter/larios/larios.php


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From jknutson at hawaii.edu  Wed Apr  5 03:29:01 2017
From: jknutson at hawaii.edu (Jesse Knutson)
Date: Tue, 04 Apr 17 17:29:01 -1000
Subject: =?utf-8?Q?[INDOLOGY]_Exemplary_translations/versions_of_the_G=C4=ABtagovinda_in_South_Asian_Languages?=
Message-ID: <CAAiVBEUUWELHMZrJ6Krwd3oFU4yRGBZKXBezV=V1e=GVSTp+VA@mail.gmail.com>

Dear Friends, Thanks so much for your ongoing valuable input and patience
with my
questioning. I would like to crowdsource once more and ask: are there are
early translations/adaptations into South Asian languages that you admire,
or modern translations into South Asian languages that you find especially
beautiful and/or learned? There are endless modern translations of a very
literal sort, but for example Caitanyad?sa's [16th-century?] translation
into Bangla is an extraordinary literary work and commentary in one. I have
a feeling there are other works out there in languages, which I haven't
learned to read. I will be grateful for any thoughts you have. Best,
??????,J
-- 
Jesse Ross Knutson PhD
Assistant Professor of Sanskrit and Bengali, Department of Indo-Pacific
Languages and Literatures
University of Hawai'i at M?noa
461 Spalding


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From camillo.formigatti at bodleian.ox.ac.uk  Wed Apr  5 13:52:27 2017
From: camillo.formigatti at bodleian.ox.ac.uk (Camillo Formigatti)
Date: Wed, 05 Apr 17 13:52:27 +0000
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Cambridge University Library collections of Sanskrit manuscripts and their impact on research
Message-ID: <0C647B6E904DBB4BAD3A28D522DC73151DA6A7C0@MBX05.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk>

Dear Colleagues,

I'm currently writing an article on the history of the Cambridge University Library collections of Sanskrit manuscripts and I'd like to include remarks about their impact on research.

If any of you has recently started new research or has in any way profited for the own research from the digital catalogue of Sanskrit manuscripts (https://cudl.lib.cam.ac.uk/collections/sanskrit), could you please e-mail me on- or off-list, briefly describing how you benefited from the digital catalogue?

(I know that such a request coming from the Sanskrit curator at the Bodleian might sound very strange, but the relationship between the two universities is actually relaxed, as most of you know.)

Best wishes,

Camillo


Dr Camillo A. Formigatti
John Clay Sanskrit Librarian

Bodleian Libraries  
The Weston Library 
Broad Street 
Oxford 
OX1 3BG

Email: camillo.formigatti at bodleian.ox.ac.uk
Tel. (office): 01865 (2)77208
www.bodleian.ox.ac.uk 





From slaje at kabelmail.de  Thu Apr  6 13:33:32 2017
From: slaje at kabelmail.de (Walter Slaje)
Date: Thu, 06 Apr 17 15:33:32 +0200
Subject: [INDOLOGY] The Messenger in Sanskrit Inscriptions (Publication Announcement)
Message-ID: <CALoZ1nWtEPD_ud9nyHNd_itJz8LFee66oyvouDJQPf-bgt9zTQ@mail.gmail.com>

On behalf of *l?autrice*, it is my pleasure to announce the publication of
her study on the function and tasks of a ?messenger? in the context of
Sanskrit inscriptions.

A sifting of about 3.600 published inscriptions (3rd to 12th centuries) in
Br?hm?- and N?gar?-scripts yielded 230 documents issued by more than 40
dynasties containing information relevant to the subject. The
documentation, analysis and evaluation of these significant inscriptions
form the core of the book, which has been written in the German language:


Katrin Einicke, Der Bote im vormodernen Indien. Nach inschriftlichen
Quellen.

Halle: Universit?tsverlag Halle-Wittenberg 2017. (Studia Indologica
Universitatis Halensis. 9). pp. 178, EUR 59,--

ISBN 978-3-86977-160-1



https://uvhw.de/studia-indologica-universitatis-halensis/product/170230_08-160-1.html


Regards,

WS


-----------------------------
Prof. Dr. Walter Slaje
Hermann-L?ns-Str. 1
D-99425 Weimar
Deutschland

Ego ex animi mei sententia spondeo ac polliceor
studia humanitatis impigro labore culturum et provecturum
non sordidi lucri causa nec ad vanam captandam gloriam,
sed quo magis veritas propagetur et lux eius, qua salus
humani generis continetur, clarius effulgeat.
Vindobonae, die XXI. mensis Novembris MCMLXXXIII.


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From mailmealakendudas at rediffmail.com  Fri Apr  7 12:06:13 2017
From: mailmealakendudas at rediffmail.com (alakendu das)
Date: Fri, 07 Apr 17 12:06:13 +0000
Subject: [INDOLOGY] DIPAVAMSA-AUTHOUR
Message-ID: <20170407120613.9798.qmail@f4mail-235-141.rediffmail.com>



  Of late, I am going through a book on the Chronicles of Ceylone.The two most well-known 

chronicles of Ceylone are-Dipa Vamsa and Maha Vamsa. The authour of Mahavamsa has been confirmed 

as Thera Mahanama .Can anybody kindly  suggest  a name who authoured Dipa Vamsa.? There is 

another area of interest in Dipavamsa ,which drew my attention. It states-' DipaAgamanam 

Buddhassha ...... " Thus, can  it be inferred that Siddhartha Gautama Buddha  had set his foot on 

Lankan soil.? Any other evidences to corroborrate ? 





                                                      ALAKENDU DAS.


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From baums at lmu.de  Fri Apr  7 12:24:54 2017
From: baums at lmu.de (Stefan Baums)
Date: Fri, 07 Apr 17 14:24:54 +0200
Subject: =?utf-8?Q?[INDOLOGY]_New_publication:_Buddhist_Manuscripts_in_the_Sch=C3=B8yen_Collection_IV?=
Message-ID: <20170407122454.licq3ac7hvqamqy5@deepthought>

Dear friends and colleagues,

it is my pleasure to announce, on behalf of the
editors, the following new publication (ten years in
the making) of early Buddhist manuscript fragments in
G?ndh?r? and Sanskrit from the Sch?yen Collection:

   Buddhist Manuscripts, Volume IV. Oslo: Hermes
   Publishing. (Manuscripts in the Sch?yen
   Collection.)
   xxii + 455 pages, 45 plates
   General Editor: Jens Braarvig
   Editorial Committee: Jens Braarvig, Paul Harrison,
   Jens-Uwe Hartmann, Kazunobu Matsuda, Gudrun
   Melzer, Lore Sander

   Table of content: http://www.hermesac.no/Contents_BMSC_IV.pdf

   Books in print: http://www.hermesac.no/march2017.html

   Orders by e-mail: hermesac at online.no

All best wishes,
Stefan Baums

-- 
Stefan Baums, Ph.D.
Institut f?r Indologie und Tibetologie
Ludwig?Maximilians?Universit?t M?nchen





From hr at ivs.edu  Sat Apr  8 03:54:27 2017
From: hr at ivs.edu (Howard Resnick)
Date: Sat, 08 Apr 17 06:54:27 +0300
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Help with Ramayana
Message-ID: <7EAE4346-A566-4214-BA9B-9046B6C19FF2@ivs.edu>

I am corresponding with a Hindu scholar who sent me the following as ?evidence' of primordial ?writing? in India:

r?ma-n?m??kita? ceda? pa?ya devy a?gul?yakam

Translation: O Sita devi! Please see this ring on which the name of Lord Rama is written.

Source: Sundara-k???a, Chapter 34, Verse 2. (Critical edition of Ramayana published at Baroda)


Of course a?kita literally means ?marked,? not ?written.?  How would Ramayana scholars understand this word here? Also, what is the status of the Baroda edition?

Many thanks!

Howard


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From John.Brockington at btinternet.com  Sat Apr  8 14:46:35 2017
From: John.Brockington at btinternet.com (John Brockington)
Date: Sat, 08 Apr 17 15:46:35 +0100
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Help with Ramayana
In-Reply-To: <7EAE4346-A566-4214-BA9B-9046B6C19FF2@ivs.edu>
Message-ID: <d2c827c3-ee3b-b197-3fd8-f4b0bdf376fa@btinternet.com>

See my /Righteous R?ma: the evolution of an epic/ (Delhi: OUP, 1985): 
185-7. The passage begins: "The question of writing in the R?m?ua?a has 
been extensively discussed, especially with regard to its bearing on the 
date of the poem.  There are in fact very few references in the text but 
these are all to marking objects with a name, [refs in fn.] not to the 
use of writing for extended documents of whatever type.  The better 
known are the two mentions of the ring marked with his own name which 
R?ma gives to Hanum?n as a token for S?t? (4.43.11 and 5.34.2)."

The Critical Edition published at Baroda is simply the most suitable 
text for scholarly purposes, being based on a rasonably wide sample of 
manuscripts and compiled on text-critical principles (almost entirely 
adhered to).

John Brockington


Professor J. L. Brockington

Emeritus Professor of Sanskrit, University of Edinburgh

Vice President, International Association of Sanskrit Studies

Interim Academic Director, Oxford Centre for Hindu Studies

113 Rutten Lane
Yarnton
Kidlington 0X5 1LT
tel: 01865 849438

On 08/04/2017 04:54, Howard Resnick via INDOLOGY wrote:
> I am corresponding with a Hindu scholar who sent me the following as 
> ?evidence' of primordial ?writing? in India:
>
> */r?ma-n?m??kita? ceda? pa?ya devy a?gul?yakam/*
>
> *Translation*: O Sita devi! Please see this ring on which the name of 
> Lord Rama is written.
>
> *Source*: Sundara-k???a, Chapter 34, Verse 2. (Critical edition of 
> Ramayana published at Baroda)
>
>
> Of course a?kita literally means ?marked,? not ?written.?  How would 
> Ramayana scholars understand this word here? Also, what is the status 
> of the Baroda edition?
>
> Many thanks!
>
> Howard
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe)



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From hr at ivs.edu  Sat Apr  8 15:47:42 2017
From: hr at ivs.edu (Howard Resnick)
Date: Sat, 08 Apr 17 18:47:42 +0300
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Help with Ramayana
In-Reply-To: <d2c827c3-ee3b-b197-3fd8-f4b0bdf376fa@btinternet.com>
Message-ID: <36B89DA7-6537-40A9-A886-01F9216491B5@ivs.edu>

Many thanks. Is it possible to get a pdf of your article? I am far away from a library.

Best,
Howard

> On Apr 8, 2017, at 5:46 PM, John Brockington via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info> wrote:
> 
> See my Righteous R?ma: the evolution of an epic (Delhi: OUP, 1985): 185-7.  The passage begins: "The question of writing in the R?m?ua?a has been extensively discussed, especially with regard to its bearing on the date of the poem.  There are in fact very few references in the text but these are all to marking objects with a name, [refs in fn.] not to the use of writing for extended documents of whatever type.  The better known are the two mentions of the ring marked with his own name which R?ma gives to Hanum?n as a token for S?t? (4.43.11 and 5.34.2)."
> 
> The Critical Edition published at Baroda is simply the most suitable text for scholarly purposes, being based on a rasonably wide sample of manuscripts and compiled on text-critical principles (almost entirely adhered to).
> 
> John Brockington
> 
> 
> Professor J. L. Brockington
> Emeritus Professor of Sanskrit, University of Edinburgh
> Vice President, International Association of Sanskrit Studies
> Interim Academic Director, Oxford Centre for Hindu Studies
> 113 Rutten Lane
> Yarnton
> Kidlington 0X5 1LT
> tel: 01865 849438
> 
> On 08/04/2017 04:54, Howard Resnick via INDOLOGY wrote:
>> I am corresponding with a Hindu scholar who sent me the following as ?evidence' of primordial ?writing? in India:
>> 
>> r?ma-n?m??kita? ceda? pa?ya devy a?gul?yakam
>> 
>> Translation: O Sita devi! Please see this ring on which the name of Lord Rama is written.
>> 
>> Source: Sundara-k???a, Chapter 34, Verse 2. (Critical edition of Ramayana published at Baroda)
>> 
>> 
>> Of course a?kita literally means ?marked,? not ?written.?  How would Ramayana scholars understand this word here? Also, what is the status of the Baroda edition?
>> 
>> Many thanks!
>> 
>> Howard
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info <mailto:INDOLOGY at list.indology.info>
>> indology-owner at list.indology.info <mailto:indology-owner at list.indology.info> (messages to the list's managing committee)
>> http://listinfo.indology.info <http://listinfo.indology.info/> (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe)
> 
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info <mailto:INDOLOGY at list.indology.info>
> indology-owner at list.indology.info <mailto:indology-owner at list.indology.info> (messages to the list's managing committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info <http://listinfo.indology.info/> (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe)



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From wujastyk at gmail.com  Mon Apr 10 03:26:59 2017
From: wujastyk at gmail.com (Dominik Wujastyk)
Date: Sun, 09 Apr 17 21:26:59 -0600
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Miniature paintings
In-Reply-To: <HE1PR02MB0793EF91359A1C7931879FD2EC350@HE1PR02MB0793.eurprd02.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <CAKdt-Cd9zF6RMfN3AEuqdoYFmBt+cKsW8Kuf4LF4C-=nETZ5Lg@mail.gmail.com>

There are several illustrated *G?t?* and *Pa?caratna* manuscripts in the
Wellcome Library's collection (wellcomelibrary.org, wellcomeimages.org).
For details see the indexes of illustrations in the two vols. of my *Handlist.
 *The library is academic-friendly, and may not even charge you for
high-res OpenAccess images.

If memory serves, Ursula King made a study of *Bhagavadg?t?*  MS images,
many years ago. (found it: King, Ursula (1982). "The iconography of
the *Bhagavad
Gita*." *Journal of Dharma* 7 (2):146-163.)

Best,
Dominik


?
--
Professor Dominik Wujastyk <http://ualberta.academia.edu/DominikWujastyk>
?,?

Singhmar Chair in Classical Indian Society and Polity
?,?

Department of History and Classics <http://historyandclassics.ualberta.ca/>
?,?
University of Alberta, Canada
?.?

South Asia at the U of A:

?sas.ualberta.ca?
??


On 29 March 2017 at 04:09, Jon Skarpeid via INDOLOGY <
indology at list.indology.info> wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I?m doing a research on miniature paintings in Bhagavad Gita manuscripts.
>
> Does someone have any suggestions as to where I can find pictures taken
> from manuscripts since I assume it would be difficult to get direct access
> to relevant manuscripts?
>
>
>
> Kind regards,
>
> Jon Skarpeid
>
>
>
> Associate Professor
>
> UiS, Stavanger
>
> Norway
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
> committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
> unsubscribe)
>


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From mailmealakendudas at rediffmail.com  Mon Apr 10 07:15:49 2017
From: mailmealakendudas at rediffmail.com (alakendu das)
Date: Mon, 10 Apr 17 07:15:49 +0000
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Fw:  DIPAVAMSA-AUTHOUR
Message-ID: <1491566835.S.6660.9455.f4-234-198.1491808549.29256@webmail.rediffmail.com>

Note: Forwarded message attached



-- Original Message --



From: alakendu das via INDOLOGY indology at list.indology.info

To: indology at list.indology.info

Subject: [INDOLOGY] DIPAVAMSA-AUTHOUR




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From camillo.formigatti at bodleian.ox.ac.uk  Mon Apr 10 09:37:43 2017
From: camillo.formigatti at bodleian.ox.ac.uk (Camillo Formigatti)
Date: Mon, 10 Apr 17 09:37:43 +0000
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Help with Ramayana
Message-ID: <0C647B6E904DBB4BAD3A28D522DC73151DA6AD01@MBX05.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk>

Dear Howard,

I don't see immediately how this reference in the Ramayana could be understood as 'primordial writing.' What should primordial mean? If the passage refers to the name of Rama represented by some sort of script on a ring, still to what extent could it be a reliable source about the introduction of the technology of writing in South Asia? How would it help us in this matter?

I'm curious to know more about the line of argument of the Hindu scholar you are corresponding with.

Best wishes,

Camillo Formigatti


Dr Camillo A. Formigatti
John Clay Sanskrit Librarian

Bodleian Libraries  
The Weston Library 
Broad Street 
Oxford 
OX1 3BG

Email: camillo.formigatti at bodleian.ox.ac.uk
Tel. (office): 01865 (2)77208
www.bodleian.ox.ac.uk 


-----Original Message-----
From: INDOLOGY [mailto:indology-bounces at list.indology.info] On Behalf Of indology-request at list.indology.info
Sent: 08 April 2017 17:00
To: indology at list.indology.info
Subject: INDOLOGY Digest, Vol 51, Issue 8

Send INDOLOGY mailing list submissions to
	indology at list.indology.info

To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
	http://list.indology.info/mailman/listinfo/indology_list.indology.info

or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
	indology-request at list.indology.info

You can reach the person managing the list at
	indology-owner at list.indology.info

When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of INDOLOGY digest..."





From arlogriffiths at hotmail.com  Mon Apr 10 09:54:15 2017
From: arlogriffiths at hotmail.com (Arlo Griffiths)
Date: Mon, 10 Apr 17 09:54:15 +0000
Subject: [INDOLOGY] question about mixed oral/manuscript transmission
Message-ID: <HE1PR0902MB17538508A95A176F35C4FBFAA5010@HE1PR0902MB1753.eurprd09.prod.outlook.com>

Colleagues,


My friend Henri Chambert-Loir, specialist of classical Malay literature, who is currently working again on the Sulalat al-Salatin (a.k.a. Sejarah Melayu, or 'Malay Annals'), has asked me a question that I would like to relay to the learned assembly:


------------

Ma question : pour comparaison avec le Sejarah Melayu, existe-t-il dans la tradition indienne (vedique ou epique p.ex.) des textes qui se sont transmis d?une part de facon ecrite (copies de manuscrit en manuscrit), d?autre part sans support ecrit (un scribe mettant pas ecrit un texte qu?il connait par coeur) ? Je pense que cela s?est produit pour le SM : certaines variantes (ex. le deplacement d?episodes) ne peuvent s?expliquer que par un stade de memoire. As-tu la reference d?un article sur le sujet, ou possedes-tu un livre qui en parle ?

------------


Would anyone have potentially useful philogogical comparanda in mind, and references (preferably with pdfs) to share that I could transmit to Prof. Chambert-Loir?


Thank you!

Arlo Griffiths




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From nagarajpaturi at gmail.com  Mon Apr 10 10:23:03 2017
From: nagarajpaturi at gmail.com (Nagaraj Paturi)
Date: Mon, 10 Apr 17 15:53:03 +0530
Subject: [INDOLOGY] question about mixed oral/manuscript transmission
In-Reply-To: <HE1PR0902MB17538508A95A176F35C4FBFAA5010@HE1PR0902MB1753.eurprd09.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <CAJGj9ebxm6fmVQAjL-LgyUo0dzoNUQ8r7C6ZaHtNgLmJ19Gy3w@mail.gmail.com>

His question: For comparison with the Sejarah Melayu, is there in the
Indian tradition (Vedic or epic, for example) texts transmitted on the one
hand in a written form (copies of manuscript in manuscript), on the other
hand Without written support (a scribe not writing a text that he knows by
heart)? I think that this has happened for the SM: some variants (eg the
displacement of episodes) can only be explained by a stage of memory. Do
you have the reference of an article on the subject, or do you have a book
that talks about it?

On Mon, Apr 10, 2017 at 3:24 PM, Arlo Griffiths via INDOLOGY <
indology at list.indology.info> wrote:

> Colleagues,
>
>
> My friend Henri Chambert-Loir, specialist of classical Malay literature,
> who is currently working again on the Sulalat al-Salatin (a.k.a. Sejarah
> Melayu, or 'Malay Annals'), has asked me a question that I would like to
> relay to the learned assembly:
>
>
> ------------
>
> Ma question : pour comparaison avec le Sejarah Melayu, existe-t-il dans la
> tradition indienne (vedique ou epique p.ex.) des textes qui se sont
> transmis d?une part de facon ecrite (copies de manuscrit en manuscrit),
> d?autre part sans support ecrit (un scribe mettant pas ecrit un texte qu?il
> connait par coeur) ? Je pense que cela s?est produit pour le SM : certaines
> variantes (ex. le deplacement d?episodes) ne peuvent s?expliquer que par un
> stade de memoire. As-tu la reference d?un article sur le sujet, ou
> possedes-tu un livre qui en parle ?
>
> ------------
>
>
> Would anyone have potentially useful philogogical comparanda in mind, and
> references (preferably with pdfs) to share that I could transmit to Prof.
> Chambert-Loir?
>
>
> Thank you!
>
>
> Arlo Griffiths
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
> committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
> unsubscribe)
>



-- 
Nagaraj Paturi

Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.

Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies

FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of  Liberal Education,

(Pune, Maharashtra, INDIA )


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From nagarajpaturi at gmail.com  Mon Apr 10 10:24:40 2017
From: nagarajpaturi at gmail.com (Nagaraj Paturi)
Date: Mon, 10 Apr 17 15:54:40 +0530
Subject: [INDOLOGY] question about mixed oral/manuscript transmission
In-Reply-To: <CAJGj9ebxm6fmVQAjL-LgyUo0dzoNUQ8r7C6ZaHtNgLmJ19Gy3w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAJGj9eb7KvrS-9nc_1q5Sr+GPjQP4kPqCcTJMxKFsjLoPaveug@mail.gmail.com>

I took the help of google translator to understand the question.

On Mon, Apr 10, 2017 at 3:53 PM, Nagaraj Paturi <nagarajpaturi at gmail.com>
wrote:

> His question: For comparison with the Sejarah Melayu, is there in the
> Indian tradition (Vedic or epic, for example) texts transmitted on the one
> hand in a written form (copies of manuscript in manuscript), on the other
> hand Without written support (a scribe not writing a text that he knows by
> heart)? I think that this has happened for the SM: some variants (eg the
> displacement of episodes) can only be explained by a stage of memory. Do
> you have the reference of an article on the subject, or do you have a book
> that talks about it?
>
> On Mon, Apr 10, 2017 at 3:24 PM, Arlo Griffiths via INDOLOGY <
> indology at list.indology.info> wrote:
>
>> Colleagues,
>>
>>
>> My friend Henri Chambert-Loir, specialist of classical Malay literature,
>> who is currently working again on the Sulalat al-Salatin (a.k.a. Sejarah
>> Melayu, or 'Malay Annals'), has asked me a question that I would like to
>> relay to the learned assembly:
>>
>>
>> ------------
>>
>> Ma question : pour comparaison avec le Sejarah Melayu, existe-t-il dans
>> la tradition indienne (vedique ou epique p.ex.) des textes qui se sont
>> transmis d?une part de facon ecrite (copies de manuscrit en manuscrit),
>> d?autre part sans support ecrit (un scribe mettant pas ecrit un texte qu?il
>> connait par coeur) ? Je pense que cela s?est produit pour le SM : certaines
>> variantes (ex. le deplacement d?episodes) ne peuvent s?expliquer que par un
>> stade de memoire. As-tu la reference d?un article sur le sujet, ou
>> possedes-tu un livre qui en parle ?
>>
>> ------------
>>
>>
>> Would anyone have potentially useful philogogical comparanda in mind, and
>> references (preferably with pdfs) to share that I could transmit to Prof.
>> Chambert-Loir?
>>
>>
>> Thank you!
>>
>>
>> Arlo Griffiths
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
>> committee)
>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
>> unsubscribe)
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Nagaraj Paturi
>
> Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.
>
> Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies
>
> FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of  Liberal Education,
>
> (Pune, Maharashtra, INDIA )
>
>
>
>



-- 
Nagaraj Paturi

Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.

Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies

FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of  Liberal Education,

(Pune, Maharashtra, INDIA )


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From manufrancis at gmail.com  Mon Apr 10 11:45:05 2017
From: manufrancis at gmail.com (Manu Francis)
Date: Mon, 10 Apr 17 13:45:05 +0200
Subject: [INDOLOGY] question about mixed oral/manuscript transmission
In-Reply-To: <CAJGj9ebxm6fmVQAjL-LgyUo0dzoNUQ8r7C6ZaHtNgLmJ19Gy3w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CANVHsm4VCc54kfjYJjNDjKskcWnJDxf-3FxxhEBst=4HhVW+nA@mail.gmail.com>

Instead of
"a scribe not writing a text that he knows by heart"

You should understand
"a scribe writing a text that he knows by heart"

In the French version: "pas ?crit" should be "par ?crit"

--

Emmanuel Francis
Charg? de recherche CNRS, Centre d'?tude de l'Inde et de l'Asie du Sud (UMR
8564, EHESS-CNRS, Paris)
http://ceias.ehess.fr/
http://ceias.ehess.fr/index.php?1725
http://rcsi.hypotheses.org/
Associate member, Centre for the Study of Manuscript Culture (SFB 950,
Universit?t Hamburg)
http://www.manuscript-cultures.uni-hamburg.de/index_e.html
https://cnrs.academia.edu/emmanuelfrancis

2017-04-10 12:23 GMT+02:00 Nagaraj Paturi via INDOLOGY <
indology at list.indology.info>:

> His question: For comparison with the Sejarah Melayu, is there in the
> Indian tradition (Vedic or epic, for example) texts transmitted on the one
> hand in a written form (copies of manuscript in manuscript), on the other
> hand Without written support (a scribe not writing a text that he knows by
> heart)? I think that this has happened for the SM: some variants (eg the
> displacement of episodes) can only be explained by a stage of memory. Do
> you have the reference of an article on the subject, or do you have a book
> that talks about it?
>
> On Mon, Apr 10, 2017 at 3:24 PM, Arlo Griffiths via INDOLOGY <
> indology at list.indology.info> wrote:
>
>> Colleagues,
>>
>>
>> My friend Henri Chambert-Loir, specialist of classical Malay literature,
>> who is currently working again on the Sulalat al-Salatin (a.k.a. Sejarah
>> Melayu, or 'Malay Annals'), has asked me a question that I would like to
>> relay to the learned assembly:
>>
>>
>> ------------
>>
>> Ma question : pour comparaison avec le Sejarah Melayu, existe-t-il dans
>> la tradition indienne (vedique ou epique p.ex.) des textes qui se sont
>> transmis d?une part de facon ecrite (copies de manuscrit en manuscrit),
>> d?autre part sans support ecrit (un scribe mettant pas ecrit un texte qu?il
>> connait par coeur) ? Je pense que cela s?est produit pour le SM : certaines
>> variantes (ex. le deplacement d?episodes) ne peuvent s?expliquer que par un
>> stade de memoire. As-tu la reference d?un article sur le sujet, ou
>> possedes-tu un livre qui en parle ?
>>
>> ------------
>>
>>
>> Would anyone have potentially useful philogogical comparanda in mind, and
>> references (preferably with pdfs) to share that I could transmit to Prof.
>> Chambert-Loir?
>>
>>
>> Thank you!
>>
>>
>> Arlo Griffiths
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
>> committee)
>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
>> unsubscribe)
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Nagaraj Paturi
>
> Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.
>
> Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies
>
> FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of  Liberal Education,
>
> (Pune, Maharashtra, INDIA )
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
> committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
> unsubscribe)
>


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From davidpaolo.pierdominicileao at uniroma1.it  Mon Apr 10 12:06:27 2017
From: davidpaolo.pierdominicileao at uniroma1.it (David Pierdominici)
Date: Mon, 10 Apr 17 14:06:27 +0200
Subject: [INDOLOGY] PDF copy
Message-ID: <1E705DA5-7470-49E7-9965-E9F183027FDB@uniroma1.it>

Dear Indologists,

could I kindly ask if someone has by chance a copy of ?Amba?acaritra? by Amara S?ri, edited in 1910? I am looking for it everywhere and I have used all possibilities and resources known to me.
Thanking in advance, my best regards.

David Pierdominici
PhD candidate
Sapienza Universit? di Roma




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From fleming_b4 at hotmail.com  Mon Apr 10 15:29:05 2017
From: fleming_b4 at hotmail.com (Benjamin Fleming)
Date: Mon, 10 Apr 17 15:29:05 +0000
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Miniature paintings
In-Reply-To: <CAKdt-Cd9zF6RMfN3AEuqdoYFmBt+cKsW8Kuf4LF4C-=nETZ5Lg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CY1PR14MB002940A82207224D5C289A09A4010@CY1PR14MB0029.namprd14.prod.outlook.com>

Hello Jon,

Penn Libraries has a selection of illustrated mss if the Gita and Mbh that are freely available online either through the Penn in Han Selected Manuscripts site or through Openn. If you write me off list I can easily hook you up with something appropriate.

Best,
Ben Fleming

Sent from my iPhone

On Apr 9, 2017, at 11:28 PM, Dominik Wujastyk via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info<mailto:indology at list.indology.info>> wrote:

There are several illustrated G?t? and Pa?caratna manuscripts in the Wellcome Library's collection (wellcomelibrary.org<http://wellcomelibrary.org>, wellcomeimages.org<http://wellcomeimages.org>).  For details see the indexes of illustrations in the two vols. of my Handlist.  The library is academic-friendly, and may not even charge you for high-res OpenAccess images.

If memory serves, Ursula King made a study of Bhagavadg?t?  MS images, many years ago. (found it: King, Ursula (1982). "The iconography of the Bhagavad Gita." Journal of Dharma 7 (2):146-163.)

Best,
Dominik


?
--
Professor Dominik Wujastyk<http://ualberta.academia.edu/DominikWujastyk>
?,?

Singhmar Chair in Classical Indian Society and Polity
?,?

Department of History and Classics<http://historyandclassics.ualberta.ca/>
?,?
University of Alberta, Canada
?.?

South Asia at the U of A:

?sas.ualberta.ca?<http://sas.ualberta.ca/>
??


On 29 March 2017 at 04:09, Jon Skarpeid via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info<mailto:indology at list.indology.info>> wrote:
Hi,
I?m doing a research on miniature paintings in Bhagavad Gita manuscripts.
Does someone have any suggestions as to where I can find pictures taken from manuscripts since I assume it would be difficult to get direct access to relevant manuscripts?

Kind regards,
Jon Skarpeid

Associate Professor
UiS, Stavanger
Norway


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From hr at ivs.edu  Tue Apr 11 10:03:21 2017
From: hr at ivs.edu (Howard Resnick)
Date: Tue, 11 Apr 17 13:03:21 +0300
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Help with Ramayana
In-Reply-To: <0C647B6E904DBB4BAD3A28D522DC73151DA6AD01@MBX05.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <1C15F423-415C-43D6-9203-5890C19E76F9@ivs.edu>

Thank you, Camillo. You and I agree.

I inserted ?primordial,? since this traditional, faith-based Hindu scholar argues that writing "has always been there.?  I?m sure and I have the same view on this matter, but I was trying to be gentle with him on text-critical issues, dating etc, so that he didn?t flame up on me.

Anyway, your help is much appreciated.

Best wishes,
Howard

> On Apr 10, 2017, at 12:37 PM, Camillo Formigatti via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info> wrote:
> 
> Dear Howard,
> 
> I don't see immediately how this reference in the Ramayana could be understood as 'primordial writing.' What should primordial mean? If the passage refers to the name of Rama represented by some sort of script on a ring, still to what extent could it be a reliable source about the introduction of the technology of writing in South Asia? How would it help us in this matter?
> 
> I'm curious to know more about the line of argument of the Hindu scholar you are corresponding with.
> 
> Best wishes,
> 
> Camillo Formigatti
> 
> 
> Dr Camillo A. Formigatti
> John Clay Sanskrit Librarian
> 
> Bodleian Libraries  
> The Weston Library 
> Broad Street 
> Oxford 
> OX1 3BG
> 
> Email: camillo.formigatti at bodleian.ox.ac.uk
> Tel. (office): 01865 (2)77208
> www.bodleian.ox.ac.uk 
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: INDOLOGY [mailto:indology-bounces at list.indology.info] On Behalf Of indology-request at list.indology.info
> Sent: 08 April 2017 17:00
> To: indology at list.indology.info
> Subject: INDOLOGY Digest, Vol 51, Issue 8
> 
> Send INDOLOGY mailing list submissions to
> 	indology at list.indology.info
> 
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> 	http://list.indology.info/mailman/listinfo/indology_list.indology.info
> 
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> 	indology-request at list.indology.info
> 
> You can reach the person managing the list at
> 	indology-owner at list.indology.info
> 
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of INDOLOGY digest..."
> 
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe)
> 






From camillo.formigatti at bodleian.ox.ac.uk  Tue Apr 11 10:57:13 2017
From: camillo.formigatti at bodleian.ox.ac.uk (Camillo Formigatti)
Date: Tue, 11 Apr 17 10:57:13 +0000
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Help with Ramayana
In-Reply-To: <1C15F423-415C-43D6-9203-5890C19E76F9@ivs.edu>
Message-ID: <0C647B6E904DBB4BAD3A28D522DC73151DA6AF34@MBX05.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk>

Dear Howard,

Thanks a lot for the nice reply, actually I didn't help at all!

The reason why I asked about the line of argument is that I simply find this will to secure a 'primordial' origin and status to writing in South Asian (or shall I say Hindu?) culture very fascinating. After all, aren't we constantly reminded on all sides of the importance of direct oral transmission in South Asian culture--or to paraphrase the proverb, isn't it so that knowledge written in a book is like money in somebody else's hands, when you need it, it's not accessible?

Best wishes,

Camillo


Dr Camillo A. Formigatti
John Clay Sanskrit Librarian

Bodleian Libraries  
The Weston Library 
Broad Street 
Oxford 
OX1 3BG

Email: camillo.formigatti at bodleian.ox.ac.uk
Tel. (office): 01865 (2)77208
www.bodleian.ox.ac.uk 

-----Original Message-----
From: Howard Resnick [mailto:hr at ivs.edu] 
Sent: 11 April 2017 11:03
To: Camillo Formigatti <camillo.formigatti at bodleian.ox.ac.uk>
Cc: Indology List <indology at list.indology.info>
Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] Help with Ramayana

Thank you, Camillo. You and I agree.

I inserted ?primordial,? since this traditional, faith-based Hindu scholar argues that writing "has always been there.?  I?m sure and I have the same view on this matter, but I was trying to be gentle with him on text-critical issues, dating etc, so that he didn?t flame up on me.

Anyway, your help is much appreciated.

Best wishes,
Howard

> On Apr 10, 2017, at 12:37 PM, Camillo Formigatti via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info> wrote:
> 
> Dear Howard,
> 
> I don't see immediately how this reference in the Ramayana could be understood as 'primordial writing.' What should primordial mean? If the passage refers to the name of Rama represented by some sort of script on a ring, still to what extent could it be a reliable source about the introduction of the technology of writing in South Asia? How would it help us in this matter?
> 
> I'm curious to know more about the line of argument of the Hindu scholar you are corresponding with.
> 
> Best wishes,
> 
> Camillo Formigatti
> 
> 
> Dr Camillo A. Formigatti
> John Clay Sanskrit Librarian
> 
> Bodleian Libraries
> The Weston Library
> Broad Street
> Oxford
> OX1 3BG
> 
> Email: camillo.formigatti at bodleian.ox.ac.uk
> Tel. (office): 01865 (2)77208
> www.bodleian.ox.ac.uk
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: INDOLOGY [mailto:indology-bounces at list.indology.info] On Behalf 
> Of indology-request at list.indology.info
> Sent: 08 April 2017 17:00
> To: indology at list.indology.info
> Subject: INDOLOGY Digest, Vol 51, Issue 8
> 
> Send INDOLOGY mailing list submissions to
> 	indology at list.indology.info
> 
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> 	
> http://list.indology.info/mailman/listinfo/indology_list.indology.info
> 
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> 	indology-request at list.indology.info
> 
> You can reach the person managing the list at
> 	indology-owner at list.indology.info
> 
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of INDOLOGY digest..."
> 
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing 
> committee) http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your 
> list options or unsubscribe)
> 





From clemency.montelle at canterbury.ac.nz  Tue Apr 11 11:46:43 2017
From: clemency.montelle at canterbury.ac.nz (Clemency Montelle)
Date: Tue, 11 Apr 17 11:46:43 +0000
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Programme details for Symposium on History of Science in India
In-Reply-To: <373FE003EA3D2949BCC16219C67CBBF77FC5323B@UCEXMBX04-I.canterbury.ac.nz>
Message-ID: <373FE003EA3D2949BCC16219C67CBBF77FC53282@UCEXMBX04-I.canterbury.ac.nz>

Dear fellow Indologists,

For your interest, I'm delighted to circulate the programme for the upcoming Symposium on the History of Science in India which will take place next week 19--20 April, at the University of Canterbury, Christchurch, New Zealand.  Speakers and titles are pasted below and attached with their abstracts to this email.

We are thrilled that Dr Deepak Paramashivan, a internationally renowned Sarangi player, will be wrapping up the Symposium with an Indian classical music concert entitled "Sarangi: the sound of one hundred colours".

With best wishes,
Clemency Montelle
----
Associate Professor
School of Mathematics and Statistics
University of Canterbury | Te Whare Wananga o Waitaha
Private Bag 4800, Christchurch 8140
NEW ZEALAND
http://www.math.canterbury.ac.nz/~c.montelle/


PROGRAMME

Symposium on History of Science in India April 19-20, 2017

Venue: Law 105, College of Business and Law UC

Wednesday 19 April


9:15am Welcome: Prof. Sekhar Bandyopadhyay (Director, New Zealand India Research Institute, Victoria University of Wellington)


Session One (Chair: M. S. Sriram)


9:30 K. Ramasubramanian
The art of weaving geometry and trigonometry with poetry: A study based on Nity?nanda?s Sarvasiddh?ntar?ja


10:30 Aditya Kolachana
Evolution of udayalagna calculations in India


11:15 Morning tea break


11:35 Venketesvara Pai
Role of ma??alas and ma??aladhruvas in determining the longitudes of planets in the v?kya school of astronomy


12:20 K. Mahesh
The Kara?aprak??a of Brahmadeva: A preliminary survey in the light of its commentaries


12:55 B. S. Shylaja and Venketesvara Pai
A catalogue of stars derived from Indian astronomy texts


1:15 Lunch break


Session Two (Chair: K. Ramasubramanian)


2:15 Clemency Montelle
The Candr?rk? of Dinakara: a table text for the sun and the moon


3:00 Keshav Melnad
A critical study of the Jagadbh??a?a of Harida a


3:45 Afternoon tea break


4:00 Deepak Paramashivan
S?ra?g?: The sound of one hundred colours


5:30 End of day


Thursday 20 April

Session three (Chair: Piers Locke)


9:00 M S Sriram
Approximations, exactness and pragmatisn in Indian astronomy


10:00 Jambugahapitiye Dhammaloka
A review of the terminology employed by ?r?pati in the mathematical chapters of the Sidd?nta?ekhara


10:45 Morning tea break


11:00 Sarah Qidwai
Science and Islam: Sir Syed the nechari (naturalist)


11:45 Pravesh Vyas
Disaster prediction through abnormal animal behavior in ancient India


12:30 Lunch break


Session Four (Chair: Arin Basu)


1:15 Rama Jayasundar
?yurveda: Where the past is still present and also getting ahead of the curve


2:15 Natalie K?hle
New insights on the origin of the trido?as


3:00 John Richardson
The 1863 military reforms in sanitation and their wider impact in India


3:45 Afternoon tea break


4:00 Piers Locke
Discovering and defending ancient Indian elephant science


4:45 Jane Buckingham
Epizootic/epidemic: Cattle disease in Bengal 1864


Evening Concert: Sarangi the sound of one hundred colours

Deepak Paramashivan

7:30pm, Recital Room, UC City Campus, Arts Centre

Entrance from the internal quadrangle o Hereford street: the ?Old Chemistry? building


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From arlogriffiths at hotmail.com  Tue Apr 11 14:13:18 2017
From: arlogriffiths at hotmail.com (Arlo Griffiths)
Date: Tue, 11 Apr 17 14:13:18 +0000
Subject: =?utf-8?Q?[INDOLOGY]_Ranajit_Sarkar's_"G=C4=ABtagovinda:_Towards_a_Total_Understanding"?=
Message-ID: <HE1PR0902MB1753C3C1DB98228853AF6A72A5000@HE1PR0902MB1753.eurprd09.prod.outlook.com>

A scan of the work by R. Sarkar, requested by Jesse Knutson a few days ago, should be available here soon:


<https://archive.org/details/Sarkar1974Gitagovinda>


Best wishes,


Arlo Griffiths


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From dipak.d2004 at gmail.com  Tue Apr 11 14:41:45 2017
From: dipak.d2004 at gmail.com (Dipak Bhattacharya)
Date: Tue, 11 Apr 17 20:11:45 +0530
Subject: [INDOLOGY] (no subject)
Message-ID: <CABEB9qLmrGTowS21VUq2+EscfO-4hk4OntuUVSX4yjHOjUp8qQ@mail.gmail.com>

11.4.17
Dear Colleagues,
Could anyone kindly mention how a long aa ? is to be generated in MS Word
TNR? Formerly it was available with TNR. But somehow it has disappeared
from the list of symbols.
Best
Dipak


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From glhart at berkeley.edu  Tue Apr 11 15:13:38 2017
From: glhart at berkeley.edu (George Hart)
Date: Tue, 11 Apr 17 11:13:38 -0400
Subject: [INDOLOGY] question about mixed oral/manuscript transmission
In-Reply-To: <HE1PR0902MB17538508A95A176F35C4FBFAA5010@HE1PR0902MB1753.eurprd09.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <B5EC911D-3DA1-40F9-9A31-D631F0CE59ED@berkeley.edu>

I think you might find Stuart Blackburn?s book, Singing of Birth and Death: Texts in Performance, quite helpful. To look in Sanskrit for this sort of material is not likely to be productive. George Hart

> On Apr 10, 2017, at 5:54 AM, Arlo Griffiths via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info> wrote:
> 
> Colleagues,
> 
> My friend Henri Chambert-Loir, specialist of classical Malay literature, who is currently working again on the Sulalat al-Salatin (a.k.a. Sejarah Melayu, or 'Malay Annals'), has asked me a question that I would like to relay to the learned assembly:
> 
> ------------
> Ma question : pour comparaison avec le Sejarah Melayu, existe-t-il dans la tradition indienne (vedique ou epique p.ex.) des textes qui se sont transmis d?une part de facon ecrite (copies de manuscrit en manuscrit), d?autre part sans support ecrit (un scribe mettant pas ecrit un texte qu?il connait par coeur) ? Je pense que cela s?est produit pour le SM : certaines variantes (ex. le deplacement d?episodes) ne peuvent s?expliquer que par un stade de memoire. As-tu la reference d?un article sur le sujet, ou possedes-tu un livre qui en parle ?
> ------------
> 
> Would anyone have potentially useful philogogical comparanda in mind, and references (preferably with pdfs) to share that I could transmit to Prof. Chambert-Loir?
> 
> Thank you!
> 
> Arlo Griffiths
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info <mailto:INDOLOGY at list.indology.info>
> indology-owner at list.indology.info <mailto:indology-owner at list.indology.info> (messages to the list's managing committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info <http://listinfo.indology.info/> (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe)



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From nagarajpaturi at gmail.com  Tue Apr 11 16:05:31 2017
From: nagarajpaturi at gmail.com (Nagaraj Paturi)
Date: Tue, 11 Apr 17 21:35:31 +0530
Subject: [INDOLOGY] question about mixed oral/manuscript transmission
In-Reply-To: <B5EC911D-3DA1-40F9-9A31-D631F0CE59ED@berkeley.edu>
Message-ID: <CAJGj9eafk5SLqt+7focdH6nJu_dKQo3COss_oX8KVxBJOU_Jtg@mail.gmail.com>

>Do you have the reference of an article on the subject, or do you have a
book that talks about it?

---- He is asking for articles only.

>Is there in the Indian tradition (Vedic or epic, for example) texts
transmitted on the one hand in a written form (copies of manuscript in
manuscript), on the other hand Without written support (a scribe not
writing a text that he knows by heart)?

---- Thus he is asking for examples in Vedic epic texts too.

This dual transmission has been there for all the traditional orally
transmitted texts of Vedas and Veda-related Shastras.

Prof. Blackburn's focus in his villupp???u analysis, particularly on the
orality and literacy aspects, is on the influence of the written text on
the oral performance, particularly on the 'control' of the written text on
the oral performance of villupp???u.

The conventional idea in modern studies that non-Sanskrit regional language
orally transmitted, particularly 'folk' texts did not have their parallel
written versions. Right from the time of study of villupp???u by Prof.
Blackburn, parallel written transmission of 'folk' 'oral' texts in regional
Indian languages is being paid attention to.


On Tue, Apr 11, 2017 at 8:43 PM, George Hart via INDOLOGY <
indology at list.indology.info> wrote:

> I think you might find Stuart Blackburn?s book, *Singing of Birth and
> Death: Texts in Performance*, quite helpful. To look in Sanskrit for this
> sort of material is not likely to be productive. George Hart
>
> On Apr 10, 2017, at 5:54 AM, Arlo Griffiths via INDOLOGY <
> indology at list.indology.info> wrote:
>
> Colleagues,
>
> My friend Henri Chambert-Loir, specialist of classical Malay literature,
> who is currently working again on the Sulalat al-Salatin (a.k.a. Sejarah
> Melayu, or 'Malay Annals'), has asked me a question that I would like to
> relay to the learned assembly:
>
> ------------
> Ma question : pour comparaison avec le Sejarah Melayu, existe-t-il dans la
> tradition indienne (vedique ou epique p.ex.) des textes qui se sont
> transmis d?une part de facon ecrite (copies de manuscrit en manuscrit),
> d?autre part sans support ecrit (un scribe mettant pas ecrit un texte qu?il
> connait par coeur) ? Je pense que cela s?est produit pour le SM : certaines
> variantes (ex. le deplacement d?episodes) ne peuvent s?expliquer que par un
> stade de memoire. As-tu la reference d?un article sur le sujet, ou
> possedes-tu un livre qui en parle ?
> ------------
>
> Would anyone have potentially useful philogogical comparanda in mind, and
> references (preferably with pdfs) to share that I could transmit to Prof.
> Chambert-Loir?
>
> Thank you!
>
> Arlo Griffiths
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
> committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
> unsubscribe)
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
> committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
> unsubscribe)
>



-- 
Nagaraj Paturi

Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.

Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies

FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of  Liberal Education,

(Pune, Maharashtra, INDIA )


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From jemhouben at gmail.com  Tue Apr 11 16:25:50 2017
From: jemhouben at gmail.com (Jan E.M. Houben)
Date: Tue, 11 Apr 17 17:25:50 +0100
Subject: [INDOLOGY] question about mixed oral/manuscript transmission
In-Reply-To: <B5EC911D-3DA1-40F9-9A31-D631F0CE59ED@berkeley.edu>
Message-ID: <CAGCGLoBygdKDfhxnFdLu4wveroyTAVMe1Y1zWtT2X-hyQxgvBA@mail.gmail.com>

Apart from "epic oral transmission" which is similar to the type of oral
transmission ethnographically attested around the globe (and which values
variations on a theme, improvisation, interaction with a public; except for
Adluri and Bagchee most specialists agree this played an important role in
the early transmission of the Indian epics and several Sanskrit texts,
sorry George, not only for Tamil texts), India knew a fundamentally
different "Vedic orality" aiming at a perfect transmission of words,
phonemes, accents: see the summary and discussion of Frits Staal's position
in this regard in
Jan Houben & Saraju Rath
?Manuscript Culture and its impact in ?India?: Contours and Parameters.?
In: *Aspects of Manuscript Culture in South India*, ed. by S. Rath: 1-53.
Leiden: E.J. Brill. 2012.
and in paragraph 3 of
Jan Houben "From Fuzzy-Edged ?Family-Veda? to the Canonical ??khas of the
Catur-Veda: Structures and Tangible Traces.? In: *Vedic ??kh?s: Past,
Present, Future. Proceedings of the Fifth International Vedic Workshop*,
Bucharest 2011, sous la dir. de J.E.M. Houben, J. Rotaru and M. Witzel, p.
159-192. Cambridge, Mass. : Harvard University, 2016.
Many references to relevant publications in the first article. See esp.
also Scharfe 2002 *Education in Ancient India.*
In the earliest Vedic texts no trace is found of the pada-plus-samhita
technique of transmission. We find, on the contrary, familiarity with a
relaxed "frog-style" transmission from fathers to their sons. Especially in
the second article it is argued that the peculiar pada-plus-samhita
technique (or pada-plus-krama-plus-samhita technique, if you like)
developed in the 6th century B.C. when North-West India was confronted with
another epoch-making innovation, alphabetic or near-alphabetic script which
emphatically distinguished WORDS -- scribes of Persian cuneiform were hence
confronted with "sandhi" problems, not relevant to scribes of syllabic or
hieroglyphic scripts. These "sandhi" problems subsequently also passionated
contemporary transmittors of the Veda. Summary: the Indian textual
tradition testifies to an intensive interface between orality and writing
over a period of around two millennia (relevant also to Sanskrit texts).
Jan Houben





*Jan E.M. HOUBEN*

Directeur d??tudes

Sources et histoire de la tradition sanskrite

Professor of South Asian History and Philology

*?cole Pratique des Hautes ?tudes*

*Sciences historiques et philologiques *

54, rue Saint-Jacques

CS 20525 ? 75005 Paris

johannes.houben at ephe.sorbonne.fr

https://ephe-sorbonne.academia.edu/JanEMHouben

www.ephe.fr


On 11 April 2017 at 16:13, George Hart via INDOLOGY <
indology at list.indology.info> wrote:

> I think you might find Stuart Blackburn?s book, *Singing of Birth and
> Death: Texts in Performance*, quite helpful. To look in Sanskrit for this
> sort of material is not likely to be productive. George Hart
>
> On Apr 10, 2017, at 5:54 AM, Arlo Griffiths via INDOLOGY <
> indology at list.indology.info> wrote:
>
> Colleagues,
>
> My friend Henri Chambert-Loir, specialist of classical Malay literature,
> who is currently working again on the Sulalat al-Salatin (a.k.a. Sejarah
> Melayu, or 'Malay Annals'), has asked me a question that I would like to
> relay to the learned assembly:
>
> ------------
> Ma question : pour comparaison avec le Sejarah Melayu, existe-t-il dans la
> tradition indienne (vedique ou epique p.ex.) des textes qui se sont
> transmis d?une part de facon ecrite (copies de manuscrit en manuscrit),
> d?autre part sans support ecrit (un scribe mettant pas ecrit un texte qu?il
> connait par coeur) ? Je pense que cela s?est produit pour le SM : certaines
> variantes (ex. le deplacement d?episodes) ne peuvent s?expliquer que par un
> stade de memoire. As-tu la reference d?un article sur le sujet, ou
> possedes-tu un livre qui en parle ?
> ------------
>
> Would anyone have potentially useful philogogical comparanda in mind, and
> references (preferably with pdfs) to share that I could transmit to Prof.
> Chambert-Loir?
>
> Thank you!
>
> Arlo Griffiths
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
> committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
> unsubscribe)
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
> committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
> unsubscribe)
>


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From jknutson at hawaii.edu  Tue Apr 11 16:53:00 2017
From: jknutson at hawaii.edu (Jesse Knutson)
Date: Tue, 11 Apr 17 06:53:00 -1000
Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_[INDOLOGY]=09Ranajit_Sarkar's_"G=C4=ABtagovinda:_Towards_a_Total_Understanding"?=
In-Reply-To: <CAAiVBEVuwNL4dPmPkAGm-26FOv4c=iR1FYOVrnT5mkpprFwgbA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAAiVBEWtR4ECLc1DN-z9m1y19ZNkV9Ws-P-2jFJ1XRF0r_j0rA@mail.gmail.com>

Thanks so much Arlo. This was so kind of you. Best,J

On Apr 11, 2017 4:14 AM, "Arlo Griffiths via INDOLOGY" <
indology at list.indology.info> wrote:

A scan of the work by R. Sarkar, requested by Jesse Knutson a few days ago,
should be available here soon:


<https://archive.org/details/Sarkar1974Gitagovinda>


Best wishes,


Arlo Griffiths

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From alex.watson at ashoka.edu.in  Tue Apr 11 17:59:14 2017
From: alex.watson at ashoka.edu.in (Alex Watson)
Date: Tue, 11 Apr 17 23:29:14 +0530
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Pratap Bhanu Mehta on Indic education
Message-ID: <CA+H=kySX6HGZd1Ud6n84mJSajWq5HESEhvEjzAX7cB3XYaTbxA@mail.gmail.com>

Some of you might enjoy this article:

http://indianexpress.com/article/opinion/columns/mohan-bhagwat-rss-workshop-at-delhi-university-yes-bring-on-bharatiyata-4590003/

-- 
Alex Watson
Professor of Indian Philosophy
Ashoka University
*https://ashokauniversity.academia.edu/AlexWatson
<https://ashokauniversity.academia.edu/AlexWatson>*


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From glhart at berkeley.edu  Tue Apr 11 18:18:58 2017
From: glhart at berkeley.edu (George Hart)
Date: Tue, 11 Apr 17 14:18:58 -0400
Subject: [INDOLOGY] question about mixed oral/manuscript transmission
In-Reply-To: <CAJGj9eafk5SLqt+7focdH6nJu_dKQo3COss_oX8KVxBJOU_Jtg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1CCAAE12-45CB-4988-88C8-ED9CF251F687@berkeley.edu>

One might also mention the Paln??i V?racaritra of ?r?n?tha, 15th century. This is a written Telugu version of an oral epic studied by Gene Roghair in his important book The Epic of Palnadu: A Study and Translation of Palnati Virula Katha, A Telugu Oral Tradition from Andhra Pradesh, India. George


> On Apr 11, 2017, at 12:05 PM, Nagaraj Paturi <nagarajpaturi at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> >Do you have the reference of an article on the subject, or do you have a book that talks about it?
> 
> ---- He is asking for articles only. 
> 
> >Is there in the Indian tradition (Vedic or epic, for example) texts transmitted on the one hand in a written form (copies of manuscript in manuscript), on the other hand Without written support (a scribe not writing a text that he knows by heart)? 
> 
> ---- Thus he is asking for examples in Vedic epic texts too. 
> 
> This dual transmission has been there for all the traditional orally transmitted texts of Vedas and Veda-related Shastras. 
> 
> Prof. Blackburn's focus in his villupp???u analysis, particularly on the orality and literacy aspects, is on the influence of the written text on the oral performance, particularly on the 'control' of the written text on the oral performance of villupp???u. 
> 
> The conventional idea in modern studies that non-Sanskrit regional language orally transmitted, particularly 'folk' texts did not have their parallel written versions. Right from the time of study of villupp???u by Prof. Blackburn, parallel written transmission of 'folk' 'oral' texts in regional Indian languages is being paid attention to. 
> 
> 
> On Tue, Apr 11, 2017 at 8:43 PM, George Hart via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info <mailto:indology at list.indology.info>> wrote:
> I think you might find Stuart Blackburn?s book, Singing of Birth and Death: Texts in Performance, quite helpful. To look in Sanskrit for this sort of material is not likely to be productive. George Hart
> 
>> On Apr 10, 2017, at 5:54 AM, Arlo Griffiths via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info <mailto:indology at list.indology.info>> wrote:
>> 
>> Colleagues,
>> 
>> My friend Henri Chambert-Loir, specialist of classical Malay literature, who is currently working again on the Sulalat al-Salatin (a.k.a. Sejarah Melayu, or 'Malay Annals'), has asked me a question that I would like to relay to the learned assembly:
>> 
>> ------------
>> Ma question : pour comparaison avec le Sejarah Melayu, existe-t-il dans la tradition indienne (vedique ou epique p.ex.) des textes qui se sont transmis d?une part de facon ecrite (copies de manuscrit en manuscrit), d?autre part sans support ecrit (un scribe mettant pas ecrit un texte qu?il connait par coeur) ? Je pense que cela s?est produit pour le SM : certaines variantes (ex. le deplacement d?episodes) ne peuvent s?expliquer que par un stade de memoire. As-tu la reference d?un article sur le sujet, ou possedes-tu un livre qui en parle ?
>> ------------
>> 
>> Would anyone have potentially useful philogogical comparanda in mind, and references (preferably with pdfs) to share that I could transmit to Prof. Chambert-Loir?
>> 
>> Thank you!
>> 
>> Arlo Griffiths
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info <mailto:INDOLOGY at list.indology.info>
>> indology-owner at list.indology.info <mailto:indology-owner at list.indology.info> (messages to the list's managing committee)
>> http://listinfo.indology.info <http://listinfo.indology.info/> (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe)
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info <mailto:INDOLOGY at list.indology.info>
> indology-owner at list.indology.info <mailto:indology-owner at list.indology.info> (messages to the list's managing committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info <http://listinfo.indology.info/> (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe)
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Nagaraj Paturi
>  
> Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.
>  
> Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies
>  
> FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of  Liberal Education,
>  
> (Pune, Maharashtra, INDIA )
>  
>  
>  



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From nagarajpaturi at gmail.com  Tue Apr 11 18:33:30 2017
From: nagarajpaturi at gmail.com (Nagaraj Paturi)
Date: Wed, 12 Apr 17 00:03:30 +0530
Subject: [INDOLOGY] question about mixed oral/manuscript transmission
In-Reply-To: <1CCAAE12-45CB-4988-88C8-ED9CF251F687@berkeley.edu>
Message-ID: <CAJGj9eb2R7rnoHBOjNo8_xRUqoPgXoZojoW-XAJoxH8Q4i3o2g@mail.gmail.com>

The list is bigger.

The narrative in Sriharsha's Naishadha Kavya has several Telugu folk oral
epic (performance and) textual versions with the name of
Naladamayantikatha.

Apart from the profoundly scholarly (naarikeLapaaka ) Epic poetic
translation by Srinathudu ( the author of Palnati Veeracharitramu ) of
Sanskrit Naishadham, there is a Desi (folkish) translation of the same by
Raghunathanayakudu.

Saarangadharacharitramu is another such narrative popular in the folk oral
epic narrative repertoire, while having classical style epic poetic forms
and verse-theater forms of modern times.

There are more.

On Tue, Apr 11, 2017 at 11:48 PM, George Hart via INDOLOGY <
indology at list.indology.info> wrote:

> One might also mention the Paln??i V?racaritra of ?r?n?tha, 15th century.
> This is a written Telugu version of an oral epic studied by Gene Roghair in
> his important book *The Epic of Palnadu: A Study and Translation of
> Palnati Virula Katha, A Telugu Oral Tradition from Andhra Pradesh, India*.
> George
>
>
> On Apr 11, 2017, at 12:05 PM, Nagaraj Paturi <nagarajpaturi at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> >Do you have the reference of an article on the subject, or do you have a
> book that talks about it?
>
> ---- He is asking for articles only.
>
> >Is there in the Indian tradition (Vedic or epic, for example) texts
> transmitted on the one hand in a written form (copies of manuscript in
> manuscript), on the other hand Without written support (a scribe not
> writing a text that he knows by heart)?
>
> ---- Thus he is asking for examples in Vedic epic texts too.
>
> This dual transmission has been there for all the traditional orally
> transmitted texts of Vedas and Veda-related Shastras.
>
> Prof. Blackburn's focus in his villupp???u analysis, particularly on the
> orality and literacy aspects, is on the influence of the written text on
> the oral performance, particularly on the 'control' of the written text on
> the oral performance of villupp???u.
>
> The conventional idea in modern studies that non-Sanskrit regional
> language orally transmitted, particularly 'folk' texts did not have their
> parallel written versions. Right from the time of study of villupp???u by
> Prof. Blackburn, parallel written transmission of 'folk' 'oral' texts in
> regional Indian languages is being paid attention to.
>
>
> On Tue, Apr 11, 2017 at 8:43 PM, George Hart via INDOLOGY <
> indology at list.indology.info> wrote:
>
>> I think you might find Stuart Blackburn?s book, *Singing of Birth and
>> Death: Texts in Performance*, quite helpful. To look in Sanskrit for
>> this sort of material is not likely to be productive. George Hart
>>
>> On Apr 10, 2017, at 5:54 AM, Arlo Griffiths via INDOLOGY <
>> indology at list.indology.info> wrote:
>>
>> Colleagues,
>>
>> My friend Henri Chambert-Loir, specialist of classical Malay literature,
>> who is currently working again on the Sulalat al-Salatin (a.k.a. Sejarah
>> Melayu, or 'Malay Annals'), has asked me a question that I would like to
>> relay to the learned assembly:
>>
>> ------------
>> Ma question : pour comparaison avec le Sejarah Melayu, existe-t-il dans
>> la tradition indienne (vedique ou epique p.ex.) des textes qui se sont
>> transmis d?une part de facon ecrite (copies de manuscrit en manuscrit),
>> d?autre part sans support ecrit (un scribe mettant pas ecrit un texte qu?il
>> connait par coeur) ? Je pense que cela s?est produit pour le SM : certaines
>> variantes (ex. le deplacement d?episodes) ne peuvent s?expliquer que par un
>> stade de memoire. As-tu la reference d?un article sur le sujet, ou
>> possedes-tu un livre qui en parle ?
>> ------------
>>
>> Would anyone have potentially useful philogogical comparanda in mind, and
>> references (preferably with pdfs) to share that I could transmit to Prof.
>> Chambert-Loir?
>>
>> Thank you!
>>
>> Arlo Griffiths
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
>> committee)
>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
>> unsubscribe)
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
>> committee)
>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
>> unsubscribe)
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Nagaraj Paturi
>
> Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.
>
> Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies
>
> FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of  Liberal Education,
>
> (Pune, Maharashtra, INDIA )
>
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
> committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
> unsubscribe)
>



-- 
Nagaraj Paturi

Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.

Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies

FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of  Liberal Education,

(Pune, Maharashtra, INDIA )


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From Toke.Knudsen at oneonta.edu  Wed Apr 12 00:40:30 2017
From: Toke.Knudsen at oneonta.edu (Toke Knudsen)
Date: Wed, 12 Apr 17 00:40:30 +0000
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Programme details for Symposium on History of Science in India
In-Reply-To: <373FE003EA3D2949BCC16219C67CBBF77FC53282@UCEXMBX04-I.canterbury.ac.nz>
Message-ID: <1C7A9A89-685C-4FDB-BF56-958A9C53B865@oneonta.edu>

It looks like a fantastic program, Clemency! Hope it'll work out great.

Best,
Toke



On Apr 11, 2017, at 20:10, Clemency Montelle via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info<mailto:indology at list.indology.info>> wrote:

Dear fellow Indologists,

For your interest, I'm delighted to circulate the programme for the upcoming Symposium on the History of Science in India which will take place next week 19--20 April, at the University of Canterbury, Christchurch, New Zealand.  Speakers and titles are pasted below and attached with their abstracts to this email.

We are thrilled that Dr Deepak Paramashivan, a internationally renowned Sarangi player, will be wrapping up the Symposium with an Indian classical music concert entitled "Sarangi: the sound of one hundred colours".

With best wishes,
Clemency Montelle
----
Associate Professor
School of Mathematics and Statistics
University of Canterbury | Te Whare Wananga o Waitaha
Private Bag 4800, Christchurch 8140
NEW ZEALAND
http://www.math.canterbury.ac.nz/~c.montelle/


PROGRAMME

Symposium on History of Science in India April 19-20, 2017

Venue: Law 105, College of Business and Law UC

Wednesday 19 April


9:15am Welcome: Prof. Sekhar Bandyopadhyay (Director, New Zealand India Research Institute, Victoria University of Wellington)


Session One (Chair: M. S. Sriram)


9:30 K. Ramasubramanian
The art of weaving geometry and trigonometry with poetry: A study based on Nity?nanda?s Sarvasiddh?ntar?ja


10:30 Aditya Kolachana
Evolution of udayalagna calculations in India


11:15 Morning tea break


11:35 Venketesvara Pai
Role of ma??alas and ma??aladhruvas in determining the longitudes of planets in the v?kya school of astronomy


12:20 K. Mahesh
The Kara?aprak??a of Brahmadeva: A preliminary survey in the light of its commentaries


12:55 B. S. Shylaja and Venketesvara Pai
A catalogue of stars derived from Indian astronomy texts


1:15 Lunch break


Session Two (Chair: K. Ramasubramanian)


2:15 Clemency Montelle
The Candr?rk? of Dinakara: a table text for the sun and the moon


3:00 Keshav Melnad
A critical study of the Jagadbh??a?a of Harida a


3:45 Afternoon tea break


4:00 Deepak Paramashivan
S?ra?g?: The sound of one hundred colours


5:30 End of day


Thursday 20 April

Session three (Chair: Piers Locke)


9:00 M S Sriram
Approximations, exactness and pragmatisn in Indian astronomy


10:00 Jambugahapitiye Dhammaloka
A review of the terminology employed by ?r?pati in the mathematical chapters of the Sidd?nta?ekhara


10:45 Morning tea break


11:00 Sarah Qidwai
Science and Islam: Sir Syed the nechari (naturalist)


11:45 Pravesh Vyas
Disaster prediction through abnormal animal behavior in ancient India


12:30 Lunch break


Session Four (Chair: Arin Basu)


1:15 Rama Jayasundar
?yurveda: Where the past is still present and also getting ahead of the curve


2:15 Natalie K?hle
New insights on the origin of the trido?as


3:00 John Richardson
The 1863 military reforms in sanitation and their wider impact in India


3:45 Afternoon tea break


4:00 Piers Locke
Discovering and defending ancient Indian elephant science


4:45 Jane Buckingham
Epizootic/epidemic: Cattle disease in Bengal 1864


Evening Concert: Sarangi the sound of one hundred colours

Deepak Paramashivan

7:30pm, Recital Room, UC City Campus, Arts Centre

Entrance from the internal quadrangle o Hereford street: the ?Old Chemistry? building
<HoSI-Symposium-April2017-Abstracts.pdf>
<SarangiConcertFlierNew.pdf>
_______________________________________________
INDOLOGY mailing list
INDOLOGY at list.indology.info<mailto:INDOLOGY at list.indology.info>
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From hr at ivs.edu  Wed Apr 12 08:45:02 2017
From: hr at ivs.edu (Howard Resnick)
Date: Wed, 12 Apr 17 11:45:02 +0300
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Help with Ramayana
In-Reply-To: <0C647B6E904DBB4BAD3A28D522DC73151DA6AF34@MBX05.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <0C6F2185-D12B-4370-A472-A3AAF1C12FD7@ivs.edu>

Excellent observation on the paradox of exalting oral transmission, while insisting on an ahistorical, perennial writing tradition.
Best,
Howard

> On Apr 11, 2017, at 1:57 PM, Camillo Formigatti <camillo.formigatti at bodleian.ox.ac.uk> wrote:
> 
> Dear Howard,
> 
> Thanks a lot for the nice reply, actually I didn't help at all!
> 
> The reason why I asked about the line of argument is that I simply find this will to secure a 'primordial' origin and status to writing in South Asian (or shall I say Hindu?) culture very fascinating. After all, aren't we constantly reminded on all sides of the importance of direct oral transmission in South Asian culture--or to paraphrase the proverb, isn't it so that knowledge written in a book is like money in somebody else's hands, when you need it, it's not accessible?
> 
> Best wishes,
> 
> Camillo
> 
> 
> Dr Camillo A. Formigatti
> John Clay Sanskrit Librarian
> 
> Bodleian Libraries  
> The Weston Library 
> Broad Street 
> Oxford 
> OX1 3BG
> 
> Email: camillo.formigatti at bodleian.ox.ac.uk
> Tel. (office): 01865 (2)77208
> www.bodleian.ox.ac.uk 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Howard Resnick [mailto:hr at ivs.edu] 
> Sent: 11 April 2017 11:03
> To: Camillo Formigatti <camillo.formigatti at bodleian.ox.ac.uk>
> Cc: Indology List <indology at list.indology.info>
> Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] Help with Ramayana
> 
> Thank you, Camillo. You and I agree.
> 
> I inserted ?primordial,? since this traditional, faith-based Hindu scholar argues that writing "has always been there.?  I?m sure and I have the same view on this matter, but I was trying to be gentle with him on text-critical issues, dating etc, so that he didn?t flame up on me.
> 
> Anyway, your help is much appreciated.
> 
> Best wishes,
> Howard
> 
>> On Apr 10, 2017, at 12:37 PM, Camillo Formigatti via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info> wrote:
>> 
>> Dear Howard,
>> 
>> I don't see immediately how this reference in the Ramayana could be understood as 'primordial writing.' What should primordial mean? If the passage refers to the name of Rama represented by some sort of script on a ring, still to what extent could it be a reliable source about the introduction of the technology of writing in South Asia? How would it help us in this matter?
>> 
>> I'm curious to know more about the line of argument of the Hindu scholar you are corresponding with.
>> 
>> Best wishes,
>> 
>> Camillo Formigatti
>> 
>> 
>> Dr Camillo A. Formigatti
>> John Clay Sanskrit Librarian
>> 
>> Bodleian Libraries
>> The Weston Library
>> Broad Street
>> Oxford
>> OX1 3BG
>> 
>> Email: camillo.formigatti at bodleian.ox.ac.uk
>> Tel. (office): 01865 (2)77208
>> www.bodleian.ox.ac.uk
>> 
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: INDOLOGY [mailto:indology-bounces at list.indology.info] On Behalf 
>> Of indology-request at list.indology.info
>> Sent: 08 April 2017 17:00
>> To: indology at list.indology.info
>> Subject: INDOLOGY Digest, Vol 51, Issue 8
>> 
>> Send INDOLOGY mailing list submissions to
>> 	indology at list.indology.info
>> 
>> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
>> 	
>> http://list.indology.info/mailman/listinfo/indology_list.indology.info
>> 
>> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
>> 	indology-request at list.indology.info
>> 
>> You can reach the person managing the list at
>> 	indology-owner at list.indology.info
>> 
>> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of INDOLOGY digest..."
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing 
>> committee) http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your 
>> list options or unsubscribe)
>> 
> 
> 






From nagarajpaturi at gmail.com  Wed Apr 12 09:04:01 2017
From: nagarajpaturi at gmail.com (Nagaraj Paturi)
Date: Wed, 12 Apr 17 14:34:01 +0530
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Help with Ramayana
In-Reply-To: <0C6F2185-D12B-4370-A472-A3AAF1C12FD7@ivs.edu>
Message-ID: <CAJGj9ebO376E8Z8YOx04bj=8soXrfZ=NEMh5gMaiqkTTZZ00AQ@mail.gmail.com>

> I inserted ?primordial,? since this traditional, faith-based Hindu
scholar argues that writing "has always been there.?

---- You agree that he is a 'faith-based' scholar and a 'traditional'
scholar. But still would like to evaluate his statement  'writing has
always been there' from a non-faith-based, non-traditional lens /
perspective.

On Wed, Apr 12, 2017 at 2:15 PM, Howard Resnick via INDOLOGY <
indology at list.indology.info> wrote:

> Excellent observation on the paradox of exalting oral transmission, while
> insisting on an ahistorical, perennial writing tradition.
> Best,
> Howard
>
> > On Apr 11, 2017, at 1:57 PM, Camillo Formigatti <
> camillo.formigatti at bodleian.ox.ac.uk> wrote:
> >
> > Dear Howard,
> >
> > Thanks a lot for the nice reply, actually I didn't help at all!
> >
> > The reason why I asked about the line of argument is that I simply find
> this will to secure a 'primordial' origin and status to writing in South
> Asian (or shall I say Hindu?) culture very fascinating. After all, aren't
> we constantly reminded on all sides of the importance of direct oral
> transmission in South Asian culture--or to paraphrase the proverb, isn't it
> so that knowledge written in a book is like money in somebody else's hands,
> when you need it, it's not accessible?
> >
> > Best wishes,
> >
> > Camillo
> >
> >
> > Dr Camillo A. Formigatti
> > John Clay Sanskrit Librarian
> >
> > Bodleian Libraries
> > The Weston Library
> > Broad Street
> > Oxford
> > OX1 3BG
> >
> > Email: camillo.formigatti at bodleian.ox.ac.uk
> > Tel. (office): 01865 (2)77208
> > www.bodleian.ox.ac.uk
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Howard Resnick [mailto:hr at ivs.edu]
> > Sent: 11 April 2017 11:03
> > To: Camillo Formigatti <camillo.formigatti at bodleian.ox.ac.uk>
> > Cc: Indology List <indology at list.indology.info>
> > Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] Help with Ramayana
> >
> > Thank you, Camillo. You and I agree.
> >
> > I inserted ?primordial,? since this traditional, faith-based Hindu
> scholar argues that writing "has always been there.?  I?m sure and I have
> the same view on this matter, but I was trying to be gentle with him on
> text-critical issues, dating etc, so that he didn?t flame up on me.
> >
> > Anyway, your help is much appreciated.
> >
> > Best wishes,
> > Howard
> >
> >> On Apr 10, 2017, at 12:37 PM, Camillo Formigatti via INDOLOGY <
> indology at list.indology.info> wrote:
> >>
> >> Dear Howard,
> >>
> >> I don't see immediately how this reference in the Ramayana could be
> understood as 'primordial writing.' What should primordial mean? If the
> passage refers to the name of Rama represented by some sort of script on a
> ring, still to what extent could it be a reliable source about the
> introduction of the technology of writing in South Asia? How would it help
> us in this matter?
> >>
> >> I'm curious to know more about the line of argument of the Hindu
> scholar you are corresponding with.
> >>
> >> Best wishes,
> >>
> >> Camillo Formigatti
> >>
> >>
> >> Dr Camillo A. Formigatti
> >> John Clay Sanskrit Librarian
> >>
> >> Bodleian Libraries
> >> The Weston Library
> >> Broad Street
> >> Oxford
> >> OX1 3BG
> >>
> >> Email: camillo.formigatti at bodleian.ox.ac.uk
> >> Tel. (office): 01865 (2)77208
> >> www.bodleian.ox.ac.uk
> >>
> >>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: INDOLOGY [mailto:indology-bounces at list.indology.info] On Behalf
> >> Of indology-request at list.indology.info
> >> Sent: 08 April 2017 17:00
> >> To: indology at list.indology.info
> >> Subject: INDOLOGY Digest, Vol 51, Issue 8
> >>
> >> Send INDOLOGY mailing list submissions to
> >>      indology at list.indology.info
> >>
> >> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> >>
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> >>
> >> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> >>      indology-request at list.indology.info
> >>
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> >>      indology-owner at list.indology.info
> >>
> >> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of INDOLOGY digest..."
> >>
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> >> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
> >> committee) http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your
> >> list options or unsubscribe)
> >>
> >
> >
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
> committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
> unsubscribe)
>



-- 
Nagaraj Paturi

Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.

Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies

FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of  Liberal Education,

(Pune, Maharashtra, INDIA )


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From nagarajpaturi at gmail.com  Wed Apr 12 12:43:40 2017
From: nagarajpaturi at gmail.com (Nagaraj Paturi)
Date: Wed, 12 Apr 17 18:13:40 +0530
Subject: [INDOLOGY] question about mixed oral/manuscript transmission
In-Reply-To: <CAJGj9eb2R7rnoHBOjNo8_xRUqoPgXoZojoW-XAJoxH8Q4i3o2g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAJGj9eas_uGpvRkAx=mChEpBnW1gprXYvxD7Op=_TDvtxdVx8A@mail.gmail.com>

One distinction that is important here is the distinction between dual
transmission of a text and the same (dual transmission) of a narrative or a
narrative system made up of sub-narratives. In the former, the comparison
can be made between the actual words of the text in the two versions.  The
questioner uses the phrase ' texts transmitted'. But he also focuses on '
the displacement of episodes ' which pertains to the latter among the above
two modes of transmission, i.e., dual transmission of a narrative or a
narrative system made up of sub-narratives.

PalnaaTi Veeracharitramu, Naishadham/Nalacharitramu,
Saarangadharacharitramu etc. belong to the dual transmission of a narrative
or a narrative system made up of sub-narratives and not to dual
transmission of a text .

But they seem to be relevant here because the question seems to be focused
on displacement of episodes etc.

On Wed, Apr 12, 2017 at 12:03 AM, Nagaraj Paturi <nagarajpaturi at gmail.com>
wrote:

> The list is bigger.
>
> The narrative in Sriharsha's Naishadha Kavya has several Telugu folk oral
> epic (performance and) textual versions with the name of
> Naladamayantikatha.
>
> Apart from the profoundly scholarly (naarikeLapaaka ) Epic poetic
> translation by Srinathudu ( the author of Palnati Veeracharitramu ) of
> Sanskrit Naishadham, there is a Desi (folkish) translation of the same by
> Raghunathanayakudu.
>
> Saarangadharacharitramu is another such narrative popular in the folk oral
> epic narrative repertoire, while having classical style epic poetic forms
> and verse-theater forms of modern times.
>
> There are more.
>
> On Tue, Apr 11, 2017 at 11:48 PM, George Hart via INDOLOGY <
> indology at list.indology.info> wrote:
>
>> One might also mention the Paln??i V?racaritra of ?r?n?tha, 15th century.
>> This is a written Telugu version of an oral epic studied by Gene Roghair in
>> his important book *The Epic of Palnadu: A Study and Translation of
>> Palnati Virula Katha, A Telugu Oral Tradition from Andhra Pradesh, India*.
>> George
>>
>>
>> On Apr 11, 2017, at 12:05 PM, Nagaraj Paturi <nagarajpaturi at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> >Do you have the reference of an article on the subject, or do you have
>> a book that talks about it?
>>
>> ---- He is asking for articles only.
>>
>> >Is there in the Indian tradition (Vedic or epic, for example) texts
>> transmitted on the one hand in a written form (copies of manuscript in
>> manuscript), on the other hand Without written support (a scribe not
>> writing a text that he knows by heart)?
>>
>> ---- Thus he is asking for examples in Vedic epic texts too.
>>
>> This dual transmission has been there for all the traditional orally
>> transmitted texts of Vedas and Veda-related Shastras.
>>
>> Prof. Blackburn's focus in his villupp???u analysis, particularly on the
>> orality and literacy aspects, is on the influence of the written text on
>> the oral performance, particularly on the 'control' of the written text on
>> the oral performance of villupp???u.
>>
>> The conventional idea in modern studies that non-Sanskrit regional
>> language orally transmitted, particularly 'folk' texts did not have their
>> parallel written versions. Right from the time of study of villupp???u by
>> Prof. Blackburn, parallel written transmission of 'folk' 'oral' texts in
>> regional Indian languages is being paid attention to.
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Apr 11, 2017 at 8:43 PM, George Hart via INDOLOGY <
>> indology at list.indology.info> wrote:
>>
>>> I think you might find Stuart Blackburn?s book, *Singing of Birth and
>>> Death: Texts in Performance*, quite helpful. To look in Sanskrit for
>>> this sort of material is not likely to be productive. George Hart
>>>
>>> On Apr 10, 2017, at 5:54 AM, Arlo Griffiths via INDOLOGY <
>>> indology at list.indology.info> wrote:
>>>
>>> Colleagues,
>>>
>>> My friend Henri Chambert-Loir, specialist of classical Malay literature,
>>> who is currently working again on the Sulalat al-Salatin (a.k.a. Sejarah
>>> Melayu, or 'Malay Annals'), has asked me a question that I would like to
>>> relay to the learned assembly:
>>>
>>> ------------
>>> Ma question : pour comparaison avec le Sejarah Melayu, existe-t-il dans
>>> la tradition indienne (vedique ou epique p.ex.) des textes qui se sont
>>> transmis d?une part de facon ecrite (copies de manuscrit en manuscrit),
>>> d?autre part sans support ecrit (un scribe mettant pas ecrit un texte qu?il
>>> connait par coeur) ? Je pense que cela s?est produit pour le SM : certaines
>>> variantes (ex. le deplacement d?episodes) ne peuvent s?expliquer que par un
>>> stade de memoire. As-tu la reference d?un article sur le sujet, ou
>>> possedes-tu un livre qui en parle ?
>>> ------------
>>>
>>> Would anyone have potentially useful philogogical comparanda in mind,
>>> and references (preferably with pdfs) to share that I could transmit to
>>> Prof. Chambert-Loir?
>>>
>>> Thank you!
>>>
>>> Arlo Griffiths
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
>>> committee)
>>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options
>>> or unsubscribe)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
>>> committee)
>>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options
>>> or unsubscribe)
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Nagaraj Paturi
>>
>> Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.
>>
>> Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies
>>
>> FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of  Liberal Education,
>>
>> (Pune, Maharashtra, INDIA )
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
>> committee)
>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
>> unsubscribe)
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Nagaraj Paturi
>
> Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.
>
> Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies
>
> FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of  Liberal Education,
>
> (Pune, Maharashtra, INDIA )
>
>
>
>



-- 
Nagaraj Paturi

Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.

Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies

FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of  Liberal Education,

(Pune, Maharashtra, INDIA )


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From psdmccartney at gmail.com  Wed Apr 12 12:51:54 2017
From: psdmccartney at gmail.com (patrick mccartney)
Date: Wed, 12 Apr 17 22:21:54 +0930
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Distribution of meat as prasad
In-Reply-To: <CAEzwJrBYsa8YAqDotgf38OyckWE=itf=uGCEMtc+cJr9L5RB0g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAEzwJrC14GybwJ7zk+-uK4QwQytK3stj+f42HPiRmvxi3bxpiA@mail.gmail.com>

Dear Friends,

A yoga teacher friend of mine asked me recently about the distribution of
meat during such events as Kali puja. Are there scriptural prescriptions
based on social hierarchies of purity and proximity regarding the
distribution of the butchered meat? Are some parts of the goat or buffalo
preferred? If so, why? Are some groups denied certain parts of the animal?
Is there a gendered component?

Thanks in advance.

Patrick


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From dnreigle at gmail.com  Wed Apr 12 17:17:03 2017
From: dnreigle at gmail.com (David and Nancy Reigle)
Date: Wed, 12 Apr 17 11:17:03 -0600
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Buddhavacanam
In-Reply-To: <7CC2BF89-B4F0-4DAD-8C72-E30C1ECB340A@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAPAZekYf3tS+oD4fdBy7fq34zOa_VgV4bEmEgtRhsw8TvJBUCQ@mail.gmail.com>

The article that Stella referred to seemed to be of interest to several
people here (including myself). I have now gotten to a library and
photocopied it. A scan of it in PDF is attached.

Best regards,

David Reigle
Colorado, U.S.A.

On Mon, Mar 20, 2017 at 12:54 PM, Stella Sandahl via INDOLOGY <
indology at list.indology.info> wrote:

> I cannot provide the article right now, but the point Prof. Smith was
> making  was that
> the Buddha wasn't talking about languages at all. He was mainly saying the
> his disciples and followers should
> render his words as they were spoken by him and refrain from all
> interpretations, additions, 'explanations'  etc.
> It is quite a sensible point in my view. And it makes all discussion about
> what language the Buddha himself actually
> spoke rather irrelevant, however interesting *per se*.
> Best
> Stella Sandahl
> P.S. I'll get the article in question when I can go in to the library.
>
> On Mar 20, 2017, at 3:23 AM, Matthew Kapstein <mkapstei at uchicago.edu>
> wrote:
>
> Might anyone be able to share a pdf of the article mentioned by Prof.
> Sandahl?
>
> with thanks as ever,
> Matthew
>
> Matthew Kapstein
> Directeur d'?tudes,
> Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes
>
> Numata Visiting Professor of Buddhist Studies,
> The University of Chicago
>
> ________________________________________
> From: Stella Sandahl [stella.sandahl at gmail.com]
> Sent: Friday, March 17, 2017 5:29 AM
> To: alakendu das
> Cc: Matthew Kapstein; indology at list.indology.info
> Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY]  quote search
>
> The most original interpretation of this famous passage is by the late
> Ronald Morton Smith.
> "What Was One's Own Language? Vinaya 2.139". The article can be found in
> Contacts between Cultures: South Asia 2 (Selected Papers  from the 33rd
> International Congress
> of Asian and North African  Studies (Toronto, Aigust 15-25, 1990). Ed. by
>  K.L. Koppedrayer,
> Lewiston 1992, pp, 240-241
>
> Best regards to all
> Stella Sandahl
> University of Toronto
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
> committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
> unsubscribe)
>


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From m.gluckman at anu.edu.au  Wed Apr 12 20:50:44 2017
From: m.gluckman at anu.edu.au (Martin Gluckman)
Date: Wed, 12 Apr 17 22:50:44 +0200
Subject: =?utf-8?Q?[INDOLOGY]_Laghusiddh=C4=81nta_kaumud=C4=AB_(Ballantyne)_-_online_reference_available?=
Message-ID: <CA+wUuzMfBWeoAeZqAi_sHz=Lah2BshUX_hF2JTKp0j_CyoOxcA@mail.gmail.com>

Dear Friends,

Happy to share with all a digital reference to Ballantyne's Laghusiddh?nta
Kaumud? is now available with an index at:

http://laghusiddhanta.vedicsociety.org/

With kindest wishes,

Martin Gluckman


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From m.gluckman at anu.edu.au  Wed Apr 12 20:55:11 2017
From: m.gluckman at anu.edu.au (Martin Gluckman)
Date: Wed, 12 Apr 17 22:55:11 +0200
Subject: =?utf-8?Q?[INDOLOGY]_Seeking_a_high_quality_scan_of_Vasu=E2=80=99s_A=E1=B9=A3=E1=B9=AD=C4=81dhy=C4=81y=C4=AB_and_Siddh=C4=81ntakaumud=C4=AB?=
Message-ID: <CA+wUuzPwV=E=LVJqUmmTpvwww-NNVzJAm75FaohHe=1bBOPzdQ@mail.gmail.com>

Dear Friends,

I am searching for a highest quality and very clear scan of
Vasu's A???dhy?y? and Siddh?ntakaumud? respectively.

In case anyone has such I would much appreciate.

With warmest wishes,

Martin Gluckman


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From rpjain1903 at gmail.com  Wed Apr 12 23:27:13 2017
From: rpjain1903 at gmail.com (R. P. Jain)
Date: Thu, 13 Apr 17 04:57:13 +0530
Subject: =?utf-8?Q?[INDOLOGY]_Laghusiddh=C4=81nta_kaumud=C4=AB_(Ballantyne)/Kanshi_Ram?=
Message-ID: <090C79BD-47F1-4737-8BD4-1E4DBEF9760D@gmail.com>

Martin 
The new translation of the above work has been published by Motilal Banarasidass in 3 volumes.Visit there site mlbd.com to get more information.
Sincerely 
RAJEEV 

Sent from my iPhone




From wujastyk at gmail.com  Thu Apr 13 01:50:15 2017
From: wujastyk at gmail.com (Dominik Wujastyk)
Date: Wed, 12 Apr 17 19:50:15 -0600
Subject: =?utf-8?Q?[INDOLOGY]_ka=E1=B9=A3=C4=81ya?=
Message-ID: <CAKdt-Cd7NJiGnkJx_3Orn0U4JrON0koQoRCLvwmw6LJ1_sEqvA@mail.gmail.com>

Has anyone wrestled with the divergent meanings of "ka??ya"?  Obviously
there are core meanings like "red/yellow," "a sort of tea-like infusion,"
and "astringent taste."  But there are several outlier meanings, including
Wilson's "attachment to worldly objects."  Wilson is often very apt, and I
think he got his meaning from the Pandits around him.   The Buddhist
"decay, etc." seems to carry over the ChUp's "impurity, sin."
 Ved?ntas?ra's "stupidity" is another outlier.  Is this really a conflation
of homonyms, or what?

Dominik Wujastyk


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From dharmaprof108 at yahoo.com  Thu Apr 13 02:30:03 2017
From: dharmaprof108 at yahoo.com (Jeffery Long)
Date: Thu, 13 Apr 17 02:30:03 +0000
Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_[INDOLOGY]_ka=E1=B9=A3=C4=81ya?=
In-Reply-To: <CAKdt-Cd7NJiGnkJx_3Orn0U4JrON0koQoRCLvwmw6LJ1_sEqvA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <2074582425.964556.1492050603016@mail.yahoo.com>

Dear Dominik,
I believe there is a Jain connection here. ?In Jain texts, "ka??ya" refers to passions/attachments which attract karmic matter to the j?va. ?But each ka??ya is also connected with a specific "le?ya"?the colors which the j?va takes on due to the presence of the ka??ya-s. ?Perhaps the meaning of ka??ya as a color has been conflated with the le?ya concept? ?This is just an initial guess, and not based on any in-depth investigation of specific occurrences of these terms in Jaina sources.
Hopefully a helpful start,Jeff?Dr. Jeffery D. Long
Professor of Religion and Asian Studies
Elizabethtown CollegeElizabethtown, PA
https://etown.academia.edu/JefferyLong
Series Editor,?Explorations in Indic Traditions: Theological, Ethical, and PhilosophicalLexington Books
"One who makes a habit of prayer and meditation will easily overcome all difficulties and remain calm and unruffled in the midst of the trials of life." ?(Holy Mother Sarada Devi)
"We are a way for the Cosmos to know itself." (Carl Sagan)
 

    On Wednesday, April 12, 2017 9:51 PM, Dominik Wujastyk via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info> wrote:
 

 Has anyone wrestled with the divergent meanings of "ka??ya"?? Obviously there are core meanings like "red/yellow," "a sort of tea-like infusion," and "astringent taste." ?But there are several outlier meanings, including Wilson's "attachment to worldly objects." ?Wilson is often very apt, and I think he got his meaning from the Pandits around him. ? The Buddhist "decay, etc." seems to carry over the ChUp's "impurity, sin." ?Ved?ntas?ra's "stupidity" is another outlier.? Is this really a conflation of homonyms, or what?
Dominik Wujastyk_______________________________________________
INDOLOGY mailing list
INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee)
http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe)

   


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From mmdesh at umich.edu  Thu Apr 13 10:26:19 2017
From: mmdesh at umich.edu (Madhav Deshpande)
Date: Thu, 13 Apr 17 06:26:19 -0400
Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_[INDOLOGY]_ka=E1=B9=A3=C4=81ya?=
In-Reply-To: <2074582425.964556.1492050603016@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <CAB3-dzeHj1owAZGAoz9b4EpmHqWOe4R66W_dPELUYMHHyeLU+w@mail.gmail.com>

Dear Dominik,

     This kind of double meaning of the word ka??ya is also seen in the
Buddhist usage of the word kas?va/k?s?va.  For example, in the Pali verse
(Dhammapada 1.9) "anikkas?vo k?s?va? yo vattham paridahessati / apeto
damasaccena na so k?s?vam arahati //" (One not free from defilements, who
dons a yellow robe, that one devoid of control and truth, is not worthy of
a yellow robe."  Here, there is a pun on the words kas?va/k?s?va, and it
shows the use of the word in the sense of a color of defilements as well as
the color of the Buddhist robe.

Madhav

On Wed, Apr 12, 2017 at 10:30 PM, Jeffery Long via INDOLOGY <
indology at list.indology.info> wrote:

> Dear Dominik,
>
> I believe there is a Jain connection here.  In Jain texts, "ka??ya" refers
> to passions/attachments which attract karmic matter to the j?va.  But each
> ka??ya is also connected with a specific "le?ya"?the colors which the j?va
> takes on due to the presence of the ka??ya-s.  Perhaps the meaning of
> ka??ya as a color has been conflated with the le?ya concept?  This is just
> an initial guess, and not based on any in-depth investigation of specific
> occurrences of these terms in Jaina sources.
>
> Hopefully a helpful start,
> Jeff
>
> Dr. Jeffery D. Long
> Professor of Religion and Asian Studies
> Elizabethtown College
> Elizabethtown, PA
>
> https://etown.academia.edu/JefferyLong
>
> Series Editor, *Explorations in Indic Traditions: Theological, Ethical,
> and Philosophical*
> Lexington Books
>
> "One who makes a habit of prayer and meditation will easily overcome all
> difficulties and remain calm and unruffled in the midst of the trials of
> life."  (Holy Mother Sarada Devi)
>
> "We are a way for the Cosmos to know itself." (Carl Sagan)
>
>
>
> On Wednesday, April 12, 2017 9:51 PM, Dominik Wujastyk via INDOLOGY <
> indology at list.indology.info> wrote:
>
>
> Has anyone wrestled with the divergent meanings of "ka??ya"?  Obviously
> there are core meanings like "red/yellow," "a sort of tea-like infusion,"
> and "astringent taste."  But there are several outlier meanings, including
> Wilson's "attachment to worldly objects."  Wilson is often very apt, and I
> think he got his meaning from the Pandits around him.   The Buddhist
> "decay, etc." seems to carry over the ChUp's "impurity, sin."
>  Ved?ntas?ra's "stupidity" is another outlier.  Is this really a conflation
> of homonyms, or what?
>
> Dominik Wujastyk
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
> committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
> unsubscribe)
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
> committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
> unsubscribe)
>


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From shalinisinha90 at hotmail.com  Thu Apr 13 15:37:36 2017
From: shalinisinha90 at hotmail.com (Shalini Sinha)
Date: Thu, 13 Apr 17 15:37:36 +0000
Subject: [INDOLOGY] CONF: Final Reminder, "Self and Attention: Cross-Cultural Perspectives, " 22 April, University of Reading
Message-ID: <HE1PR02MB13233ED7A708F3637BB90920C3020@HE1PR02MB1323.eurprd02.prod.outlook.com>

Ratio Conference 2017
University of Reading

Self and Attention: Cross-Cultural Perspectives
Saturday 22 April, 2017

Speakers:
Jonardon Ganeri (NYU), ?The Role of Attention in Buddhist Philosophy of Mind?
Amber Carpenter (Yale-NUS), ?Attention as a Means of Self-Dissolution and Reformation?
Jan Westerhoff (Oxford), ?Language, Truth, and Meaning in Madhyamaka?
Jake Davis (NYU), ?Virtues of Attention?
Sebastian Watzl (Oslo), ?Consciousness and No Self??
James Stazicker (Reading), ?Attention as Visual Determinacy?

?20, ?10 (students & concessions) ? includes lunch & refreshments.
Student bursaries are available

Registration: 9.30-10.00 am. The final talk ends at 5.30 pm
Please book online:  http://store.rdg.ac/2017AprRatioConference

Further information:  https://ratioconference.wordpress.com

or contact Shalini Sinha,  shalini.sinha at reading.ac.uk


Venue: Room G10, Henley Business School, University of Reading, Whiteknights, Reading RG6 6UD

Thanks to The Mind Association, The Analysis Trust and the NYU Virtues of Attention Project (https://wp.nyu.edu/attention/) for their support



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From stella.sandahl at gmail.com  Thu Apr 13 15:44:50 2017
From: stella.sandahl at gmail.com (Stella Sandahl)
Date: Thu, 13 Apr 17 11:44:50 -0400
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Buddhavacanam
In-Reply-To: <CAPAZekYf3tS+oD4fdBy7fq34zOa_VgV4bEmEgtRhsw8TvJBUCQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <682574BA-EAA9-40CA-BBC2-21A924C2BAB8@gmail.com>

Dear David,
Mille grazie! Due to bad back problems I have not been able to to go to the library to get the article. 
I think Professor Smith's interpretation is very convincing. Smith has written about heresies earlier: see "The Early Heresies in the Development of Indian Religion"
in Indologica Taurinensia 2 (1974, 149-198, "Addendum to the Early Heresies" Indologica Taurinensia 5 (1977) , 177-178.
Best regards to all
Stella
P.S. For an (almost) complete bibliography of Professor Smith's many (very original) publications see Corolla Torontonensis. Studies in 
Honour of Ronald Morton Smith, edited by Emmet Robbins and Stella Sandahl, TSAR publications Toronto 1994, pp.xiii-xix.

Professor Stella Sandahl (emerita)
Department of East Asian Studies
130 St. George St. room 14087
Toronto, ON M5S 3H1
stella.sandahl at gmail.com
ssandahl at sympatico.ca
Tel. (416) 530-7755
Fax. (416) 978-5711


On Apr 12, 2017, at 1:17 PM, David and Nancy Reigle <dnreigle at gmail.com> wrote:

> The article that Stella referred to seemed to be of interest to several people here (including myself). I have now gotten to a library and photocopied it. A scan of it in PDF is attached.
> 
> Best regards,
> 
> David Reigle
> Colorado, U.S.A.
> 
> On Mon, Mar 20, 2017 at 12:54 PM, Stella Sandahl via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info> wrote:
> I cannot provide the article right now, but the point Prof. Smith was making  was that
> the Buddha wasn't talking about languages at all. He was mainly saying the his disciples and followers should
> render his words as they were spoken by him and refrain from all interpretations, additions, 'explanations'  etc.
> It is quite a sensible point in my view. And it makes all discussion about what language the Buddha himself actually
> spoke rather irrelevant, however interesting per se.
> Best
> Stella Sandahl
> P.S. I'll get the article in question when I can go in to the library.
> 
> On Mar 20, 2017, at 3:23 AM, Matthew Kapstein <mkapstei at uchicago.edu> wrote:
> 
>> Might anyone be able to share a pdf of the article mentioned by Prof. Sandahl?
>> 
>> with thanks as ever,
>> Matthew
>> 
>> Matthew Kapstein
>> Directeur d'?tudes,
>> Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes
>> 
>> Numata Visiting Professor of Buddhist Studies,
>> The University of Chicago
>> 
>> ________________________________________
>> From: Stella Sandahl [stella.sandahl at gmail.com]
>> Sent: Friday, March 17, 2017 5:29 AM
>> To: alakendu das
>> Cc: Matthew Kapstein; indology at list.indology.info
>> Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY]  quote search
>> 
>> The most original interpretation of this famous passage is by the late Ronald Morton Smith.
>> "What Was One's Own Language? Vinaya 2.139". The article can be found in
>> Contacts between Cultures: South Asia 2 (Selected Papers  from the 33rd International Congress
>> of Asian and North African  Studies (Toronto, Aigust 15-25, 1990). Ed. by  K.L. Koppedrayer,
>> Lewiston 1992, pp, 240-241
>> 
>> Best regards to all
>> Stella Sandahl
>> University of Toronto
>> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe)
> 
> <what_was_one's_own_language,_smith_1992.pdf>

--

andha? tama? pravi?anti ye ?vidy?m up?sate tato bh?ya iva te tamo ya u vidy?y?? rat?? ||

B?had?ra?yaka Upanisad IV.4.10

?Those who worship ignorance enter into blind darkness.  Those who are devoted to knowledge enter, as it were, into a greater darkness.?

 










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From anuj.misra at gmail.com  Thu Apr 13 16:05:17 2017
From: anuj.misra at gmail.com (AJ Misra)
Date: Thu, 13 Apr 17 18:05:17 +0200
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Inability to see romanised (transliterated text with diacritics) Sanskrit in my emails.
Message-ID: <CAFVPNkkFPbSC4EmbBK7Ja606e6Kimb74FhrQ-3_9O9UiMvUBow@mail.gmail.com>

Hi there,

I'm having difficulty in reading the transliterated (romanised Sanskrit
with diacritical marks) in the Indology Digest. These appear as "?" in my
email. Would you be able to suggest any setting changes or otherwise I
could implement to be able to read the transliterated Sanskrit correctly?

Thank you for your help with this.

Best

AJ

-- 
Dr Anuj Misra
Postdoctoral Research Fellow
Tables Analysis Method for the history of Astral Sciences (TAMAS)
Syst?mes de R?f?rence Temps Espace (SYRTE)
Observatoire de Paris
61, Avenue de l'Observatoire
Paris 75014
FRANCE
https://tamas.hypotheses.org/


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From LubinT at wlu.edu  Thu Apr 13 17:05:21 2017
From: LubinT at wlu.edu (Lubin, Tim)
Date: Thu, 13 Apr 17 17:05:21 +0000
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Inability to see romanised (transliterated text with diacritics) Sanskrit in my emails.
In-Reply-To: <CAFVPNkkFPbSC4EmbBK7Ja606e6Kimb74FhrQ-3_9O9UiMvUBow@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <D515268D.4025E%lubint@wlu.edu>

Have you got a complete unicode compliant font installed on your machine?  (Most non-ancient computers do now.)  Some individuals still use non-Unicode fonts, which will not display properly if you do not have the same installed.  Does it always happen?  Example?

But it may also be your mail interface.  My Outlook mailer, for example, will replace every macron-a (?) with a question mark ? only that letter, not ?, ?, etc. ? unless I include an underdot (or overdot) character in the message as well.  For this reason, I include one in my signature, in case I forget.

Timothy Lubin
Professor of Religion and Adjunct Professor of Law
Chair of the Department of Religion
Washington and Lee University
Lexington, Virginia 24450

http://home.wlu.edu/~lubint
http://wlu.academia.edu/TimothyLubin
http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/cf_dev/AbsByAuth.cfm?per_id=930949
?

From: INDOLOGY <indology-bounces at list.indology.info<mailto:indology-bounces at list.indology.info>> on behalf of AJ Misra via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info<mailto:indology at list.indology.info>>
Reply-To: AJ Misra <anuj.misra at gmail.com<mailto:anuj.misra at gmail.com>>
Date: Thursday, April 13, 2017 at 12:05 PM
To: "indology at list.indology.info<mailto:indology at list.indology.info>" <indology at list.indology.info<mailto:indology at list.indology.info>>
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Inability to see romanised (transliterated text with diacritics) Sanskrit in my emails.

Hi there,

I'm having difficulty in reading the transliterated (romanised Sanskrit with diacritical marks) in the Indology Digest. These appear as "?" in my email. Would you be able to suggest any setting changes or otherwise I could implement to be able to read the transliterated Sanskrit correctly?

Thank you for your help with this.

Best

AJ

--
Dr Anuj Misra
Postdoctoral Research Fellow
Tables Analysis Method for the history of Astral Sciences (TAMAS)
Syst?mes de R?f?rence Temps Espace (SYRTE)
Observatoire de Paris
61, Avenue de l'Observatoire
Paris 75014
FRANCE
https://tamas.hypotheses.org/


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From adheesh1 at gmail.com  Thu Apr 13 17:47:20 2017
From: adheesh1 at gmail.com (Adheesh Sathaye)
Date: Thu, 13 Apr 17 10:47:20 -0700
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Inability to see romanised (transliterated text with diacritics) Sanskrit in my emails.
In-Reply-To: <CAFVPNkkFPbSC4EmbBK7Ja606e6Kimb74FhrQ-3_9O9UiMvUBow@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <A4C05A20-04C2-4484-8945-32A26B1DFF83@gmail.com>

Dear AJ Misra,

You are likely encountering an issue with how your email client is handling the encoding of the messages, reading it as Western European instead of UTF-8. So it may be a matter of fixing your client-side settings.
>From the server side, one potential solution is to login to your list options page (http://listoptions.indology.info) and try changing the encoding of the digests from MIME to Plain Text.

Incidentally, as a reminder to us all, the list options page is where one would go to start/stop receiving Digests, change one?s email or password, temporarily suspend email delivery, and perform an assortment of other features of the list.
 
with best wishes,
Adheesh

?
Adheesh Sathaye
University of British Columbia


> On Apr 13, 2017, at 09.05, AJ Misra via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info> wrote:
> 
> Hi there,
> 
> I'm having difficulty in reading the transliterated (romanised Sanskrit with diacritical marks) in the Indology Digest. These appear as "?" in my email. Would you be able to suggest any setting changes or otherwise I could implement to be able to read the transliterated Sanskrit correctly?
> 
> Thank you for your help with this.
> 
> Best
> 
> AJ 
> 
> -- 
> Dr Anuj Misra
> Postdoctoral Research Fellow
> Tables Analysis Method for the history of Astral Sciences (TAMAS)
> Syst?mes de R?f?rence Temps Espace (SYRTE)
> Observatoire de Paris
> 61, Avenue de l'Observatoire
> Paris 75014
> FRANCE
> https://tamas.hypotheses.org/
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe)












From wujastyk at gmail.com  Thu Apr 13 17:47:26 2017
From: wujastyk at gmail.com (Dominik Wujastyk)
Date: Thu, 13 Apr 17 11:47:26 -0600
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Inability to see romanised (transliterated text with diacritics) Sanskrit in my emails.
In-Reply-To: <CAFVPNkkFPbSC4EmbBK7Ja606e6Kimb74FhrQ-3_9O9UiMvUBow@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAKdt-Cc7p7+F6nKE0QvqFxqgBOYCVXCQAB5TwiyOqxJ5bkx=9w@mail.gmail.com>

This is apparently an insoluble problem when Mailman posts are received in
digest form.  Is this the case with you, Anuj?  If so, switch to individual
messages, and maybe the problem will go away.
Best,
Dominik


On 13 April 2017 at 10:05, AJ Misra via INDOLOGY <
indology at list.indology.info> wrote:

> Hi there,
>
> I'm having difficulty in reading the transliterated (romanised Sanskrit
> with diacritical marks) in the Indology Digest. These appear as "?" in my
> email. Would you be able to suggest any setting changes or otherwise I
> could implement to be able to read the transliterated Sanskrit correctly?
>
> Thank you for your help with this.
>
> Best
>
> AJ
>
> --
> Dr Anuj Misra
> Postdoctoral Research Fellow
> Tables Analysis Method for the history of Astral Sciences (TAMAS)
> Syst?mes de R?f?rence Temps Espace (SYRTE)
> Observatoire de Paris
> 61, Avenue de l'Observatoire
> Paris 75014
> FRANCE
> https://tamas.hypotheses.org/
>
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
> committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
> unsubscribe)
>


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From anuj.misra at gmail.com  Thu Apr 13 17:55:08 2017
From: anuj.misra at gmail.com (AJ Misra)
Date: Thu, 13 Apr 17 19:55:08 +0200
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Inability to see romanised (transliterated text with diacritics) Sanskrit in my emails.
In-Reply-To: <CAKdt-Cc7p7+F6nKE0QvqFxqgBOYCVXCQAB5TwiyOqxJ5bkx=9w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAFVPNkmT1hzrqS+mOkpJyKSgPuTeX3BgfG=HsH1K1mDKGshPiw@mail.gmail.com>

Thank you all for your suggestions. I think this may well be a problem with
the way my email client (gmail) deals with UTF* and MIME. I think I will
just follow Dominik's solution of switching to individual message for now.

Best

AJ


On 13 April 2017 at 19:47, Dominik Wujastyk <wujastyk at gmail.com> wrote:

> This is apparently an insoluble problem when Mailman posts are received in
> digest form.  Is this the case with you, Anuj?  If so, switch to individual
> messages, and maybe the problem will go away.
> Best,
> Dominik
>
>
> On 13 April 2017 at 10:05, AJ Misra via INDOLOGY <
> indology at list.indology.info> wrote:
>
>> Hi there,
>>
>> I'm having difficulty in reading the transliterated (romanised Sanskrit
>> with diacritical marks) in the Indology Digest. These appear as "?" in my
>> email. Would you be able to suggest any setting changes or otherwise I
>> could implement to be able to read the transliterated Sanskrit correctly?
>>
>> Thank you for your help with this.
>>
>> Best
>>
>> AJ
>>
>> --
>> Dr Anuj Misra
>> Postdoctoral Research Fellow
>> Tables Analysis Method for the history of Astral Sciences (TAMAS)
>> Syst?mes de R?f?rence Temps Espace (SYRTE)
>> Observatoire de Paris
>> 61, Avenue de l'Observatoire
>> Paris 75014
>> FRANCE
>> https://tamas.hypotheses.org/
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
>> committee)
>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
>> unsubscribe)
>>
>
>


-- 
Dr Anuj Misra
Postdoctoral Research Fellow
Tables Analysis Method for the history of Astral Sciences (TAMAS)
Syst?mes de R?f?rence Temps Espace (SYRTE)
Observatoire de Paris
61, Avenue de l'Observatoire
Paris 75014
FRANCE
https://tamas.hypotheses.org/


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From Bradley.Clough at mso.umt.edu  Thu Apr 13 23:39:46 2017
From: Bradley.Clough at mso.umt.edu (Clough, Bradley)
Date: Thu, 13 Apr 17 23:39:46 +0000
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Buddhavacanam
In-Reply-To: <CAPAZekYf3tS+oD4fdBy7fq34zOa_VgV4bEmEgtRhsw8TvJBUCQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <FEA1593D-E4EA-4C84-8009-D54E22806BB2@mso.umt.edu>

Dear David,

Thanks, but the attached scan only seems to have the first 1 1/2 pages of the article. Would it be possible to resend the whole article?

Best Wishes,
Brad

Dr. Bradley S. Clough
Global Humanities and Religions
LA 101
The University of Montana
32 Campus Drive
Missoula, MT 59812

bradley.clough at mso.umt.edu<mailto:bradley.clough at mso.umt.edu>
Phone: 406-243-2837
Fax: 406-243-4076

On Apr 12, 2017, at 11:17 AM, David and Nancy Reigle via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info<mailto:indology at list.indology.info>> wrote:

The article that Stella referred to seemed to be of interest to several people here (including myself). I have now gotten to a library and photocopied it. A scan of it in PDF is attached.

Best regards,

David Reigle
Colorado, U.S.A.

On Mon, Mar 20, 2017 at 12:54 PM, Stella Sandahl via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info<mailto:indology at list.indology.info>> wrote:
I cannot provide the article right now, but the point Prof. Smith was making  was that
the Buddha wasn't talking about languages at all. He was mainly saying the his disciples and followers should
render his words as they were spoken by him and refrain from all interpretations, additions, 'explanations'  etc.
It is quite a sensible point in my view. And it makes all discussion about what language the Buddha himself actually
spoke rather irrelevant, however interesting per se.
Best
Stella Sandahl
P.S. I'll get the article in question when I can go in to the library.

On Mar 20, 2017, at 3:23 AM, Matthew Kapstein <mkapstei at uchicago.edu<mailto:mkapstei at uchicago.edu>> wrote:

Might anyone be able to share a pdf of the article mentioned by Prof. Sandahl?

with thanks as ever,
Matthew

Matthew Kapstein
Directeur d'?tudes,
Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes

Numata Visiting Professor of Buddhist Studies,
The University of Chicago

________________________________________
From: Stella Sandahl [stella.sandahl at gmail.com<mailto:stella.sandahl at gmail.com>]
Sent: Friday, March 17, 2017 5:29 AM
To: alakendu das
Cc: Matthew Kapstein; indology at list.indology.info<mailto:indology at list.indology.info>
Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY]  quote search

The most original interpretation of this famous passage is by the late Ronald Morton Smith.
"What Was One's Own Language? Vinaya 2.139". The article can be found in
Contacts between Cultures: South Asia 2 (Selected Papers  from the 33rd International Congress
of Asian and North African  Studies (Toronto, Aigust 15-25, 1990). Ed. by  K.L. Koppedrayer,
Lewiston 1992, pp, 240-241

Best regards to all
Stella Sandahl
University of Toronto


_______________________________________________
INDOLOGY mailing list
INDOLOGY at list.indology.info<mailto:INDOLOGY at list.indology.info>
indology-owner at list.indology.info<mailto:indology-owner at list.indology.info> (messages to the list's managing committee)
http://listinfo.indology.info<http://listinfo.indology.info/> (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe)

<what_was_one's_own_language,_smith_1992.pdf>_______________________________________________
INDOLOGY mailing list
INDOLOGY at list.indology.info<mailto:INDOLOGY at list.indology.info>
indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee)
http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe)






From dnreigle at gmail.com  Fri Apr 14 02:59:21 2017
From: dnreigle at gmail.com (David and Nancy Reigle)
Date: Thu, 13 Apr 17 20:59:21 -0600
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Buddhavacanam
In-Reply-To: <FEA1593D-E4EA-4C84-8009-D54E22806BB2@mso.umt.edu>
Message-ID: <CAPAZekaryRbfDpgMhnCB7bjoDT96hz7AT3a1hEiXhjNupmiF=g@mail.gmail.com>

Dear Bradley,

The whole article is found on only those two pages. It is very short.

Best regards,

David Reigle
Colorado, U.S.A.


On Thu, Apr 13, 2017 at 5:39 PM, Clough, Bradley <Bradley.Clough at mso.umt.edu
> wrote:

> Dear David,
>
> Thanks, but the attached scan only seems to have the first 1 1/2 pages of
> the article. Would it be possible to resend the whole article?
>
> Best Wishes,
> Brad
>
> Dr. Bradley S. Clough
> Global Humanities and Religions
> LA 101
> The University of Montana
> 32 Campus Drive
> Missoula, MT 59812
>
> bradley.clough at mso.umt.edu<mailto:bradley.clough at mso.umt.edu>
> Phone: 406-243-2837
> Fax: 406-243-4076
>
>


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From m.gluckman at anu.edu.au  Fri Apr 14 12:21:11 2017
From: m.gluckman at anu.edu.au (Martin Gluckman)
Date: Fri, 14 Apr 17 14:21:11 +0200
Subject: =?utf-8?Q?[INDOLOGY]_Laghusiddh=C4=81nta_kaumud=C4=AB_(Ballantyne)_-_online_reference_available_[repost]?=
Message-ID: <CA+wUuzMgLzLDhRT=iAYRSSTvwRoUc8YOR9bcRk0Ly1ninh5rmQ@mail.gmail.com>

*Dear Friends,*

*Am reposting this as there was a permission issue with some of the pages
which has been rectified for those who could not see parts of the work, it
is now rectified (thanks Dominic for reporting).*

*Kindest Wishes,*

*Martin*

---

Dear Friends,

Happy to share with all a digital reference to Ballantyne's Laghusiddh?nta
Kaumud? is now available with an index at:

http://laghusiddhanta.vedicsociety.org/

With kindest wishes,

Martin Gluckman


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From shrinsaha at gmail.com  Sat Apr 15 08:01:42 2017
From: shrinsaha at gmail.com (Niranjan Saha)
Date: Sat, 15 Apr 17 13:31:42 +0530
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Request for Pdfs
Message-ID: <CAHuz+CrkQyi_K0sAfG0nbXQH-GaY-HmV_L9sZ8=t57dmF-f6vg@mail.gmail.com>

Dear List,

I'd be very much obliged if some of you could make the following items
available (I could not succeed despite several attempts)


With regards,
N.Saha

1. *Hawley, John. ?The Four Samprad?ays: Ordering the Religious Past in
Mughal North India?*. In
South Asian History and Culture (Special Issue: Religious Cultures in Early
Modern India: New
Perspectives, ed. Rosalind O?Hanlon and David Washbrook), 2, no. 2 (2011):
160?183.

2.*Minkowski, Christopher. ?A Guide to Philological Argument in Early
Modern Banaras?*. In Epic
and Argument in Sanskrit Literary History: Essays in Honor of Robert P.
Goldman, ed. Sheldon
Pollock, 117?41. Delhi: Manohar, 2010.

3. *Benson, James. ?Samkarabhatt**a's Family Chronicle?*. In The Pandit:
Traditional Scholarship in India,
ed. Axel Michaels, 105?18. Delhi: Manohar, 2001.


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From alanus1216 at yahoo.com  Sat Apr 15 20:23:51 2017
From: alanus1216 at yahoo.com (Allen Thrasher)
Date: Sat, 15 Apr 17 20:23:51 +0000
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Miniature paintings
In-Reply-To: <CY1PR14MB002940A82207224D5C289A09A4010@CY1PR14MB0029.namprd14.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <1477360466.974107.1492287831425@mail.yahoo.com>

An interesting question to pursue in this research is to what extent the illustrations and maybe the formatting (lines per page, rulings, etc.) are standardized. ?From informal observations in antique stores I suspect they might be, in a region. ?Following this up, one might wonder if scribes would make copies of major classics on speculation, not for a specific order, being pretty sure someone would want one before long. ?It would avoid wasting a period when business was slack. Finally, one might ask if the scribes sometimes did the illustrations themselvrs, rather than calling upon a painter.
Allen

Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android 
 
  On Mon, Apr 10, 2017 at 11:30 AM, Benjamin Fleming via INDOLOGY<indology at list.indology.info> wrote:   _______________________________________________
INDOLOGY mailing list
INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee)
http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe)  


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From edbryant at rci.rutgers.edu  Mon Apr 17 11:00:40 2017
From: edbryant at rci.rutgers.edu (edbryant at rci.rutgers.edu)
Date: Mon, 17 Apr 17 07:00:40 -0400
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Gita meter
In-Reply-To: <1477360466.974107.1492287831425@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <973ecbad39d2cf8665e370070e6e31d5.squirrel@webmail.rci.rutgers.edu>


Greetings everyone,

Is there anything written about when and why the Gita changes its meter,
or does anyone on the list have an opinion about this?  At least in
several instances, I can see no narrative reason for this, nor shift in
theological content. At least in the second chapter which borrows two
verses from the Katha, I wonder whether this occurs with verses being
borrowed from elsewhere,  but I don't know.  Has anyone thought about this
or can anyone point me to anything written on it?

Thanks.  Edwin Bryant.





From mmdesh at umich.edu  Mon Apr 17 11:15:14 2017
From: mmdesh at umich.edu (Madhav Deshpande)
Date: Mon, 17 Apr 17 07:15:14 -0400
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Gita meter
In-Reply-To: <973ecbad39d2cf8665e370070e6e31d5.squirrel@webmail.rci.rutgers.edu>
Message-ID: <CAB3-dzepGzhz1soN1A3VGWJGFvRZP_Got7pHO3NisDys_vdYtA@mail.gmail.com>

Hello Edwin,

     In her article "The Mahabharata's Core" (1975), Mary Carroll Smith has
argued that there was an ancient core of the Mahabharata in Tri??ubh
verses, which was later expanded by the addition of the narrative in
Anu??ubh.  I am not sure how this would account for the metrical variation
in the Bhagavadgita, but there is a suggestion from this article.

Madhav Deshpande
Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA

On Mon, Apr 17, 2017 at 7:00 AM, Edwin F. Bryant via INDOLOGY <
indology at list.indology.info> wrote:

>
> Greetings everyone,
>
> Is there anything written about when and why the Gita changes its meter,
> or does anyone on the list have an opinion about this?  At least in
> several instances, I can see no narrative reason for this, nor shift in
> theological content. At least in the second chapter which borrows two
> verses from the Katha, I wonder whether this occurs with verses being
> borrowed from elsewhere,  but I don't know.  Has anyone thought about this
> or can anyone point me to anything written on it?
>
> Thanks.  Edwin Bryant.
>
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
> committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
> unsubscribe)
>


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From jemhouben at gmail.com  Mon Apr 17 11:32:41 2017
From: jemhouben at gmail.com (jemhouben at gmail.com)
Date: Mon, 17 Apr 17 13:32:41 +0200
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Gita meter
In-Reply-To: <CAB3-dzepGzhz1soN1A3VGWJGFvRZP_Got7pHO3NisDys_vdYtA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <58f4a7d9.e581df0a.a442f.70c5@mx.google.com>

In the case of the 11th chapter I would consider it a matter of author?s choice of a meter suitable to the particularly awe-inspiring subject. 
Best, Jan

Envoy? de mon t?l?phone Windows 10

De?: Madhav Deshpande via INDOLOGY
Envoy? le?:lundi 17 avril 2017 13:17
??: edbryant at rci.rutgers.edu
Cc?: indology at list.indology.info
Objet?:Re: [INDOLOGY] Gita meter

Hello Edwin,

? ? ?In her article "The Mahabharata's Core" (1975), Mary Carroll Smith has argued that there was an ancient core of the Mahabharata in Tri??ubh verses, which was later expanded by the addition of the narrative in Anu??ubh.? I am not sure how this would account for the metrical variation in the Bhagavadgita, but there is a suggestion from this article.

Madhav Deshpande
Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA

On Mon, Apr 17, 2017 at 7:00 AM, Edwin F. Bryant via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info> wrote:

Greetings everyone,

Is there anything written about when and why the Gita changes its meter,
or does anyone on the list have an opinion about this?? At least in
several instances, I can see no narrative reason for this, nor shift in
theological content. At least in the second chapter which borrows two
verses from the Katha, I wonder whether this occurs with verses being
borrowed from elsewhere,? but I don't know.? Has anyone thought about this
or can anyone point me to anything written on it?

Thanks.? Edwin Bryant.

_______________________________________________
INDOLOGY mailing list
INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee)
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From shrinsaha at gmail.com  Mon Apr 17 12:41:41 2017
From: shrinsaha at gmail.com (Niranjan Saha)
Date: Mon, 17 Apr 17 18:11:41 +0530
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Gita meter
In-Reply-To: <CAB3-dzepGzhz1soN1A3VGWJGFvRZP_Got7pHO3NisDys_vdYtA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAHuz+Cp6fAH-37xD1QhCpugLqDZaJrhAJ4wxBGFCpiVGYAJVyQ@mail.gmail.com>

Dear Professor Deshpande,

I've found the attachment indeed helpful.


Best regards,
Niranjan Saha,
IIT (ISM) Dhanbad

<https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail>
Virus-free.
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<https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail>
<#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>

On Mon, Apr 17, 2017 at 4:45 PM, Madhav Deshpande via INDOLOGY <
indology at list.indology.info> wrote:

> Hello Edwin,
>
>      In her article "The Mahabharata's Core" (1975), Mary Carroll Smith
> has argued that there was an ancient core of the Mahabharata in Tri??ubh
> verses, which was later expanded by the addition of the narrative in
> Anu??ubh.  I am not sure how this would account for the metrical variation
> in the Bhagavadgita, but there is a suggestion from this article.
>
> Madhav Deshpande
> Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA
>
> On Mon, Apr 17, 2017 at 7:00 AM, Edwin F. Bryant via INDOLOGY <
> indology at list.indology.info> wrote:
>
>>
>> Greetings everyone,
>>
>> Is there anything written about when and why the Gita changes its meter,
>> or does anyone on the list have an opinion about this?  At least in
>> several instances, I can see no narrative reason for this, nor shift in
>> theological content. At least in the second chapter which borrows two
>> verses from the Katha, I wonder whether this occurs with verses being
>> borrowed from elsewhere,  but I don't know.  Has anyone thought about this
>> or can anyone point me to anything written on it?
>>
>> Thanks.  Edwin Bryant.
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
>> committee)
>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
>> unsubscribe)
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
> committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
> unsubscribe)
>


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From chiara.policardi at gmail.com  Mon Apr 17 15:28:28 2017
From: chiara.policardi at gmail.com (Chiara Policardi)
Date: Mon, 17 Apr 17 17:28:28 +0200
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Pdf request
Message-ID: <CAAsHCVrTEQUOjoBA7O4M64Ur6_9MQNKfV_ckzsEQbpqoWFUNjQ@mail.gmail.com>

Dear List members,

I would be most grateful for a pdf of the following article - I did not
meet with any success looking for it in the resources accessible to me:

Goldman, Robert P. ?V?lm?ki and Vy?sa: Their Contribution to India?s
Discourse on Ethnicity?. In *Journal of the Oriental Institute*, M.S.
University of Baroda 46, 1-2 (1996): 1-14.

With many thanks in advance,
Chiara Policardi


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From wujastyk at gmail.com  Mon Apr 17 15:29:17 2017
From: wujastyk at gmail.com (Dominik Wujastyk)
Date: Mon, 17 Apr 17 09:29:17 -0600
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Fwd: Manuscripts on My Mind
In-Reply-To: <LYRIS-3076903-2323051-2017.04.17-10.10.39--wujastyk#gmail.com@list.slu.edu>
Message-ID: <CAKdt-Cfp5Ac-8k1T7sqdNfEpe+AGCi+cUOXjJ-viBJ2U9NQy=A@mail.gmail.com>

This publication would gladly consider news on Indian manuscripts, if we
sent it.

Sent from Android phone
---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: "LEngle, Susan" <lengles at slu.edu>
Date: 17 Apr 2017 09:11
Subject: Manuscripts on My Mind
To: <wujastyk at gmail.com>
Cc:

Dear Colleagues and Manuscript Lovers,
>
> I hope you are enjoying some semblance of spring as you wind down this
> first semester of 2017. Here the dogwood is beaming in pink and white, and
> a few odd irises have already made it into light and air; in a week or so
> they will fill the city with kaleidoscopic colors. My favorite is the
> purple iris, featured on so many Netherlandish panels and altarpieces.
>
> I am starting work on the May 2017 issue of *Manuscripts on My Mind*, and
> ask you all to send me any news on exhibitions, projects, conferences,
> courses, calls for papers, publications, new research, burning questions,
> startling discoveries, anything else manuscript-related you can think of?by
> May 1st, 2017.
>
> Yours in manuscript studies,
>
> Susan L'Engle, Ph.D.
> Assistant Director, Vatican Film Library
> Editor, *Manuscripta*
> Pius XII Memorial Library
> Saint Louis University
> 3650 Lindell Boulevard
> St. Louis, Missouri  63108
> Tel. (314) 977-3084 / Fax (314) 977-3108
> Email: lengles at slu.edu
> http://lib.slu.edu/special-collections
> <http://list.slu.edu/t/2323051/3076903/2056/4/>
>


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From gthomgt at gmail.com  Mon Apr 17 17:07:15 2017
From: gthomgt at gmail.com (George Thompson)
Date: Mon, 17 Apr 17 13:07:15 -0400
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Gita meter
In-Reply-To: <58f4a7d9.e581df0a.a442f.70c5@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <CAP1Y1ztjCwajXPTw2e8_r0gTe6o+2WvVH++8VyUeCA1UEBxHRg@mail.gmail.com>

Hello everyone,

In the  introduction to my Gita translation, I include "A Note on Chapter
11," which argues on the basis of metrical and thematic reasons [similar to
Jan's] that this chapter is an interpolation.  John Brockington has pointed
out that this chapter does not fit well into its context.  He points out
that chapter 12 "seems to pick up immediately from chapter 10" [See his
essay; "The Bhagavadgita: Text and Context" in J.  Lipner's anthology "The
Fruits of our Desiring: An Enquiry into the Ethics of the BhG for Our
Times" (Calgary: Bayeux Arts, 1997].  He cites several scholars who have
argued that the BhG was stitched together by two or more authors.

I hope that this note is useful.

George





On Mon, Apr 17, 2017 at 7:32 AM, Jan Houben via INDOLOGY <
indology at list.indology.info> wrote:

> In the case of the 11th chapter I would consider it a matter of author?s
> choice of a meter suitable to the particularly awe-inspiring subject.
>
> Best, Jan
>
>
>
> Envoy? de mon t?l?phone Windows 10
>
>
>
> *De : *Madhav Deshpande via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info>
> *Envoy? le :*lundi 17 avril 2017 13:17
> *? : *edbryant at rci.rutgers.edu
> *Cc : *indology at list.indology.info
> *Objet :*Re: [INDOLOGY] Gita meter
>
>
>
> Hello Edwin,
>
>
>
>      In her article "The Mahabharata's Core" (1975), Mary Carroll Smith
> has argued that there was an ancient core of the Mahabharata in Tri??ubh
> verses, which was later expanded by the addition of the narrative in
> Anu??ubh.  I am not sure how this would account for the metrical variation
> in the Bhagavadgita, but there is a suggestion from this article.
>
>
>
> Madhav Deshpande
>
> Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA
>
>
>
> On Mon, Apr 17, 2017 at 7:00 AM, Edwin F. Bryant via INDOLOGY <
> indology at list.indology.info> wrote:
>
>
> Greetings everyone,
>
> Is there anything written about when and why the Gita changes its meter,
> or does anyone on the list have an opinion about this?  At least in
> several instances, I can see no narrative reason for this, nor shift in
> theological content. At least in the second chapter which borrows two
> verses from the Katha, I wonder whether this occurs with verses being
> borrowed from elsewhere,  but I don't know.  Has anyone thought about this
> or can anyone point me to anything written on it?
>
> Thanks.  Edwin Bryant.
>
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
> committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
> unsubscribe)
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
> committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
> unsubscribe)
>


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From hr at ivs.edu  Mon Apr 17 17:18:46 2017
From: hr at ivs.edu (Howard Resnick)
Date: Mon, 17 Apr 17 20:18:46 +0300
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Gita meter
In-Reply-To: <CAP1Y1ztjCwajXPTw2e8_r0gTe6o+2WvVH++8VyUeCA1UEBxHRg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5FC69C1E-9C3D-4450-A5AA-0D4F91918A01@ivs.edu>


> On Apr 17, 2017, at 8:07 PM, George Thompson via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info> wrote:
> 
> Hello everyone,
> 
> In the  introduction to my Gita translation, I include "A Note on Chapter 11," which argues on the basis of metrical and thematic reasons [similar to Jan's] that this chapter is an interpolation.  John Brockington has pointed out that this chapter does not fit well into its context.  He points out that chapter 12 "seems to pick up immediately from chapter 10?

Actually, Chapter 12 seems to pick up immediately from Chapter 11. The first word in Ch 12 is ?evam,? ?thus,? and it refers to 11.55, the last verse of Ch 11. Both verses are about the bhaktas.

I don?t see anything in 10.42 to which 12.1 refers.

Best,
Howard

> [See his essay; "The Bhagavadgita: Text and Context" in J.  Lipner's anthology "The Fruits of our Desiring: An Enquiry into the Ethics of the BhG for Our Times" (Calgary: Bayeux Arts, 1997].  He cites several scholars who have argued that the BhG was stitched together by two or more authors.
> 
> I hope that this note is useful.
> 
> George
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On Mon, Apr 17, 2017 at 7:32 AM, Jan Houben via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info <mailto:indology at list.indology.info>> wrote:
> In the case of the 11th chapter I would consider it a matter of author?s choice of a meter suitable to the particularly awe-inspiring subject.
> 
> Best, Jan
> 
>  
> 
> Envoy? de mon t?l?phone Windows 10
> 
>  
> 
> De : Madhav Deshpande via INDOLOGY <mailto:indology at list.indology.info>
> Envoy? le :lundi 17 avril 2017 13:17
> ? : edbryant at rci.rutgers.edu <mailto:edbryant at rci.rutgers.edu>
> Cc : indology at list.indology.info <mailto:indology at list.indology.info>
> Objet :Re: [INDOLOGY] Gita meter
> 
>  
> 
> Hello Edwin,
> 
>  
> 
>      In her article "The Mahabharata's Core" (1975), Mary Carroll Smith has argued that there was an ancient core of the Mahabharata in Tri??ubh verses, which was later expanded by the addition of the narrative in Anu??ubh.  I am not sure how this would account for the metrical variation in the Bhagavadgita, but there is a suggestion from this article.
> 
>  
> 
> Madhav Deshpande
> 
> Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA
> 
>  
> 
> On Mon, Apr 17, 2017 at 7:00 AM, Edwin F. Bryant via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info <mailto:indology at list.indology.info>> wrote:
> 
> 
> Greetings everyone,
> 
> Is there anything written about when and why the Gita changes its meter,
> or does anyone on the list have an opinion about this?  At least in
> several instances, I can see no narrative reason for this, nor shift in
> theological content. At least in the second chapter which borrows two
> verses from the Katha, I wonder whether this occurs with verses being
> borrowed from elsewhere,  but I don't know.  Has anyone thought about this
> or can anyone point me to anything written on it?
> 
> Thanks.  Edwin Bryant.
> 
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info <mailto:INDOLOGY at list.indology.info>
> indology-owner at list.indology.info <mailto:indology-owner at list.indology.info> (messages to the list's managing committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info <http://listinfo.indology.info/> (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe)
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info <mailto:INDOLOGY at list.indology.info>
> indology-owner at list.indology.info <mailto:indology-owner at list.indology.info> (messages to the list's managing committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info <http://listinfo.indology.info/> (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe)
> 
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe)



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From H.J.H.Tieken at hum.leidenuniv.nl  Mon Apr 17 17:24:46 2017
From: H.J.H.Tieken at hum.leidenuniv.nl (Tieken, H.J.H.)
Date: Mon, 17 Apr 17 17:24:46 +0000
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Gita meter
In-Reply-To: <CAP1Y1ztjCwajXPTw2e8_r0gTe6o+2WvVH++8VyUeCA1UEBxHRg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <EA8F815D502BC14097213C5D85BA1C652E09E9C4@SPMXM07.VUW.leidenuniv.nl>

Now that the focus of this thread has shifted to BhG, chapter 11, the following article by Mislav Jezic might be of interest:

"The Tristubh Hymn in the Bhagavadgita".

In: Petteri Koskikallio (ed.), Paralleles and Comparisons. Proceedings of the Fourth Dubrovnik Intern. Conf. on the Skt Epics and Puranas. Sept. 2005. Zagreb 2009, pp. 31-66.

Herman Tieken
Stationsweg 58
2515 BP Den Haag
The Netherlands
00 31 (0)70 2208127
website: hermantieken.com<http://hermantieken.com/>
________________________________
Van: INDOLOGY [indology-bounces at list.indology.info] namens George Thompson via INDOLOGY [indology at list.indology.info]
Verzonden: maandag 17 april 2017 19:07
Aan: Jan E.M. Houben; indology at list.indology.info
Onderwerp: Re: [INDOLOGY] Gita meter

Hello everyone,

In the  introduction to my Gita translation, I include "A Note on Chapter 11," which argues on the basis of metrical and thematic reasons [similar to Jan's] that this chapter is an interpolation.  John Brockington has pointed out that this chapter does not fit well into its context.  He points out that chapter 12 "seems to pick up immediately from chapter 10" [See his essay; "The Bhagavadgita: Text and Context" in J.  Lipner's anthology "The Fruits of our Desiring: An Enquiry into the Ethics of the BhG for Our Times" (Calgary: Bayeux Arts, 1997].  He cites several scholars who have argued that the BhG was stitched together by two or more authors.

I hope that this note is useful.

George





On Mon, Apr 17, 2017 at 7:32 AM, Jan Houben via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info<mailto:indology at list.indology.info>> wrote:
In the case of the 11th chapter I would consider it a matter of author?s choice of a meter suitable to the particularly awe-inspiring subject.
Best, Jan

Envoy? de mon t?l?phone Windows 10

De : Madhav Deshpande via INDOLOGY<mailto:indology at list.indology.info>
Envoy? le :lundi 17 avril 2017 13:17
? : edbryant at rci.rutgers.edu<mailto:edbryant at rci.rutgers.edu>
Cc : indology at list.indology.info<mailto:indology at list.indology.info>
Objet :Re: [INDOLOGY] Gita meter

Hello Edwin,

     In her article "The Mahabharata's Core" (1975), Mary Carroll Smith has argued that there was an ancient core of the Mahabharata in Tri??ubh verses, which was later expanded by the addition of the narrative in Anu??ubh.  I am not sure how this would account for the metrical variation in the Bhagavadgita, but there is a suggestion from this article.

Madhav Deshpande
Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA

On Mon, Apr 17, 2017 at 7:00 AM, Edwin F. Bryant via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info<mailto:indology at list.indology.info>> wrote:

Greetings everyone,

Is there anything written about when and why the Gita changes its meter,
or does anyone on the list have an opinion about this?  At least in
several instances, I can see no narrative reason for this, nor shift in
theological content. At least in the second chapter which borrows two
verses from the Katha, I wonder whether this occurs with verses being
borrowed from elsewhere,  but I don't know.  Has anyone thought about this
or can anyone point me to anything written on it?

Thanks.  Edwin Bryant.

_______________________________________________
INDOLOGY mailing list
INDOLOGY at list.indology.info<mailto:INDOLOGY at list.indology.info>
indology-owner at list.indology.info<mailto:indology-owner at list.indology.info> (messages to the list's managing committee)
http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe)



_______________________________________________
INDOLOGY mailing list
INDOLOGY at list.indology.info<mailto:INDOLOGY at list.indology.info>
indology-owner at list.indology.info<mailto:indology-owner at list.indology.info> (messages to the list's managing committee)
http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe)



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From dharmaprof108 at yahoo.com  Mon Apr 17 19:56:42 2017
From: dharmaprof108 at yahoo.com (Jeffery Long)
Date: Mon, 17 Apr 17 19:56:42 +0000
Subject: =?utf-8?Q?[INDOLOGY]_Quick_Buddhism_Question:_Trik=C4=81ya_and_Trisvabh=C4=81va?=
In-Reply-To: <66537440.2112508.1492459002819.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <66537440.2112508.1492459002819@mail.yahoo.com>

Dear Colleagues,
A (hopefully) quick and easy question for Buddhism scholars:
Is there any direct correlation between the trik?ya (three bodies of Buddha) and trisvabh?va (literally 'three natures,' but three modes of perceiving reality: deluded, relative, and ultimate)? ?Do the three svabh?vas map onto the three bodies in a one-to-one fashion, such that one perceiving in the deluded mode would perceive the physical body of a Buddha, one perceiving in a relative mode would have a vision of a cosmic Buddha or celestial Bodhisattva, and one perceiving in the ultimate mode would perceive the Dharmak?ya, the ultimate truth? ?The last makes sense to me, but I'm unclear on the other two.
Thank you in advance!
Jeff?Dr. Jeffery D. Long
Professor of Religion and Asian Studies
Elizabethtown CollegeElizabethtown, PA
https://etown.academia.edu/JefferyLong
Series Editor,?Explorations in Indic Traditions: Theological, Ethical, and PhilosophicalLexington Books
"One who makes a habit of prayer and meditation will easily overcome all difficulties and remain calm and unruffled in the midst of the trials of life." ?(Holy Mother Sarada Devi)
"We are a way for the Cosmos to know itself." (Carl Sagan)


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From mkapstei at uchicago.edu  Mon Apr 17 20:45:28 2017
From: mkapstei at uchicago.edu (Matthew Kapstein)
Date: Mon, 17 Apr 17 20:45:28 +0000
Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_[INDOLOGY]_Quick_Buddhism_Question:_Trik=C4=81ya_and_Trisvabh=C4=81va?=
In-Reply-To: <66537440.2112508.1492459002819@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <82C3E42590D939418C74DD76B97DDED047C27277@xm-mbx-06-prod>

Sorry Jeff, but it's not quick and easy. The interpretation of the trisvabh?va
is far from settled and indeed was not quite settled even within the tradition.
Though your suggestion about the possible relationship with the three k?ya-s
is of interest, I do not think that it can be supported simpliciter by the extant
sources. A recent discussion, by Mario D'Amato, that does consider the soteriological dimensions
of the three natures doctrine, and references much of the previous scholarship is:
https://www.academia.edu/26898167/Three_Natures_Three_Stages_An_Interpretation_of_the_Yog%C4%81c%C4%81ra_Trisvabh%C4%81va-Theory

best,
Matthew

Matthew Kapstein
Directeur d'?tudes,
Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes

Numata Visiting Professor of Buddhist Studies,
The University of Chicago
________________________________



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From dharmaprof108 at yahoo.com  Mon Apr 17 20:53:35 2017
From: dharmaprof108 at yahoo.com (Jeffery Long)
Date: Mon, 17 Apr 17 20:53:35 +0000
Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_[INDOLOGY]_Quick_Buddhism_Question:_Trik=C4=81ya_and_Trisvabh=C4=81va?=
In-Reply-To: <82C3E42590D939418C74DD76B97DDED047C27277@xm-mbx-06-prod>
Message-ID: <1925623978.2121330.1492462415437@mail.yahoo.com>

That's very helpful, Matthew. ?Thank you!
When I formulated this?question, I imagined you would be the one to?respond.
All the best,Jeff?Dr. Jeffery D. Long
Professor of Religion and Asian Studies
Elizabethtown CollegeElizabethtown, PA
https://etown.academia.edu/JefferyLong
Series Editor,?Explorations in Indic Traditions: Theological, Ethical, and PhilosophicalLexington Books
"One who makes a habit of prayer and meditation will easily overcome all difficulties and remain calm and unruffled in the midst of the trials of life." ?(Holy Mother Sarada Devi)
"We are a way for the Cosmos to know itself." (Carl Sagan)
 

    On Monday, April 17, 2017 4:45 PM, Matthew Kapstein <mkapstei at uchicago.edu> wrote:
 

 #yiv6084761446 P {margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;}Sorry Jeff, but it's not quick and easy. The interpretation of thetrisvabh?vais far from settled and indeed was not quite settled even within the tradition.
Though your suggestion about the possible relationship with the three k?ya-s
is of interest, I do not think that it can be supported simpliciter by the extant
sources. A recent discussion, by Mario D'Amato, that does consider the soteriological dimensions
of the three natures doctrine, and references much of the previous scholarship is:
https://www.academia.edu/26898167/Three_Natures_Three_Stages_An_Interpretation_of_the_Yog%C4%81c%C4%81ra_Trisvabh%C4%81va-Theory

best,
Matthew

Matthew Kapstein
Directeur d'?tudes, 
Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes

Numata Visiting Professor of Buddhist Studies,
The University of Chicago



   


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From mailmealakendudas at rediffmail.com  Tue Apr 18 06:54:15 2017
From: mailmealakendudas at rediffmail.com (alakendu das)
Date: Tue, 18 Apr 17 06:54:15 +0000
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Buddhavacanam
In-Reply-To: <7CC2BF89-B4F0-4DAD-8C72-E30C1ECB340A@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1490036044.S.17510.27561.f4-235-200.1492498455.5782@webmail.rediffmail.com>

<



Dr.Sandahl,

           I had been curiously following   the scholastic  deliberations on Buddhabachanam. 

Since long, I had an inner  feeling that there  is actually  a  reference where Siddhartha 

Gautama Buddha  insisted on using his own language  while propagating his teachings.  Finally 

I stumbled upon a reference from Chullavagga( a constituent part of Vinaya Pitaka),in course 

of studying a chapter on Pali in a certain book on the History of Sanskrit  Literature. I am 

not conversant in Pali, but the qoute in ChullaVagga  has Buddha instructing- ANUJANAMI 

VIKHABE SAKAYANIRUTIYA  BUDDHABACHANAM PARIYAPUNITUM'(Ref-Chullavagga 5.33.1) which roughly 

translates as - While teaching the views of Buddha , one should use  Buddha's own dialect( 

sakaya Nirutya implies own dialect).About Buddha's own dialect, it is well known that  hailing 

from Magadha ,BUDDHA spoke Magadhi . There is a further reference ( source unknown)which says- 

SO CHA BHAGABA MAGADHO, SA CHA MAGADHE BHABATTYE, SA CHA BHASHA MAGADHI. Inspite  my poor 

knowledge in Pali,I can understand the above qoute as- Buddha  was a resident of Magadha and 

his own dialect was Magadhi.



                                          ALAKENDU DAS.





                                                               


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From jbagchee at gmail.com  Tue Apr 18 12:21:13 2017
From: jbagchee at gmail.com (Joydeep)
Date: Tue, 18 Apr 17 14:21:13 +0200
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Gita meter
In-Reply-To: <EA8F815D502BC14097213C5D85BA1C652E09E9C4@SPMXM07.VUW.leidenuniv.nl>
Message-ID: <CAB7QHO0vmAAYVzCSNTciFkeyiCP4HE7Kh2qFTC+K=ZbkJn2eaw@mail.gmail.com>

Gentlemen,

for an evaluation of Mislav Jezic's analysis of layers in the Bhagavadg?t?,
see:

Vishwa Adluri and Joydeep Bagchee, "Paradigm Lost: The Application of the
Historical-Critical Method to the Bhagavadg?t?," *International Journal of
Hindu Studies *20, no. 2 (2016): 199?301.

The article is uploaded here:
https://www.academia.edu/30431442/Paradigm_Lost

See especially the table on pages 259?261. The proposed criteria for
identifying historical layers in the G?t? do not work; and unless we can
provide new criteria or arguments, we are recirculating old and discredited
literature. Brockington's arguments in "The Bhagavadg?t?: Text and
Context,? in Lipner, ed., 28?47 are also addressed in the article; we show
his claims are reliant on Georg von Simson's work, and he does not propose
any arguments.

The reasons for the interest in different versions of the G?t? are
addressed here:
https://www.academia.edu/24302441/Whos_Zoomin_Who_Bhagavadg%C4%ABt%C4%81_Recensions_in_India_and_Germany

We discuss the untenability of the oral bardic epic hypothesis in our
forthcoming book *Philology and Criticism: A Guide to Mah?bh?rata Textual
Criticism*. It should be in print in two months or so; I will announce it
here as soon as it is out.

Joydeep

Dr. Joydeep Bagchee
Zukunftsphilologie: Revisiting the Canons of Textual Scholarship
<http://www.forum-transregionale-studien.de/en/revisiting-the-canons-of-textual-scholarship/fellows/detail/article/joydeep-bagchee.html>
Academia.edu Homepage <https://fu-berlin.academia.edu/JoydeepBagchee>
Oxford Bibliographies Online: Hinduism
<http://www.oxfordbibliographies.com/obo/page/hinduism>

The Nay Science
<http://global.oup.com/academic/product/the-nay-science-9780199931361;jsessionid=94DFF6B197750DBE7C7E64A4FB8B28D2?cc=de&lang=en&>
Argument and Design
<http://www.brill.com/products/book/argument-and-design-unity-mahabharata>
Reading the Fifth Veda <http://www.brill.com/reading-fifth-veda>
When the Goddess Was a Woman <http://www.brill.com/when-goddess-was-woman>
Transcultural Encounters between Germany and India
<http://www.routledge.com/books/details/9780415844697/>
German Indology on OBO Hinduism
<http://www.oxfordbibliographies.com/view/document/obo-9780195399318/obo-9780195399318-0147.xml>
___________________
What, then, is Philosophy?
Philosophy is the supremely precious.

Plotinus, Enneads I.III.5

On Mon, Apr 17, 2017 at 7:24 PM, Tieken, H.J.H. via INDOLOGY <
indology at list.indology.info> wrote:

> Now that the focus of this thread has shifted to BhG, chapter 11, the
> following article by Mislav Jezic might be of interest:
>
> "The Tristubh Hymn in the Bhagavadgita".
>
> In: Petteri Koskikallio (ed.), Paralleles and Comparisons. Proceedings of
> the Fourth Dubrovnik Intern. Conf. on the Skt Epics and Puranas. Sept.
> 2005. Zagreb 2009, pp. 31-66.
>
> Herman Tieken
> Stationsweg 58
> 2515 BP Den Haag
> The Netherlands
> 00 31 (0)70 2208127
> website: hermantieken.com
> ------------------------------
> *Van:* INDOLOGY [indology-bounces at list.indology.info] namens George
> Thompson via INDOLOGY [indology at list.indology.info]
> *Verzonden:* maandag 17 april 2017 19:07
> *Aan:* Jan E.M. Houben; indology at list.indology.info
> *Onderwerp:* Re: [INDOLOGY] Gita meter
>
> Hello everyone,
>
> In the  introduction to my Gita translation, I include "A Note on Chapter
> 11," which argues on the basis of metrical and thematic reasons [similar to
> Jan's] that this chapter is an interpolation.  John Brockington has pointed
> out that this chapter does not fit well into its context.  He points out
> that chapter 12 "seems to pick up immediately from chapter 10" [See his
> essay; "The Bhagavadgita: Text and Context" in J.  Lipner's anthology "The
> Fruits of our Desiring: An Enquiry into the Ethics of the BhG for Our
> Times" (Calgary: Bayeux Arts, 1997].  He cites several scholars who have
> argued that the BhG was stitched together by two or more authors.
>
> I hope that this note is useful.
>
> George
>
>
>
>
>
> On Mon, Apr 17, 2017 at 7:32 AM, Jan Houben via INDOLOGY <
> indology at list.indology.info> wrote:
>
>> In the case of the 11th chapter I would consider it a matter of author?s
>> choice of a meter suitable to the particularly awe-inspiring subject.
>>
>> Best, Jan
>>
>>
>>
>> Envoy? de mon t?l?phone Windows 10
>>
>>
>>
>> *De : *Madhav Deshpande via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info>
>> *Envoy? le :*lundi 17 avril 2017 13:17
>> *? : *edbryant at rci.rutgers.edu
>> *Cc : *indology at list.indology.info
>> *Objet :*Re: [INDOLOGY] Gita meter
>>
>>
>>
>> Hello Edwin,
>>
>>
>>
>>      In her article "The Mahabharata's Core" (1975), Mary Carroll Smith
>> has argued that there was an ancient core of the Mahabharata in Tri??ubh
>> verses, which was later expanded by the addition of the narrative in
>> Anu??ubh.  I am not sure how this would account for the metrical variation
>> in the Bhagavadgita, but there is a suggestion from this article.
>>
>>
>>
>> Madhav Deshpande
>>
>> Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA
>>
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Apr 17, 2017 at 7:00 AM, Edwin F. Bryant via INDOLOGY <
>> indology at list.indology.info> wrote:
>>
>>
>> Greetings everyone,
>>
>> Is there anything written about when and why the Gita changes its meter,
>> or does anyone on the list have an opinion about this?  At least in
>> several instances, I can see no narrative reason for this, nor shift in
>> theological content. At least in the second chapter which borrows two
>> verses from the Katha, I wonder whether this occurs with verses being
>> borrowed from elsewhere,  but I don't know.  Has anyone thought about this
>> or can anyone point me to anything written on it?
>>
>> Thanks.  Edwin Bryant.
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
>> committee)
>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
>> unsubscribe)
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
>> committee)
>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
>> unsubscribe)
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
> committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
> unsubscribe)
>


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From j.jurewicz at uw.edu.pl  Tue Apr 18 22:51:27 2017
From: j.jurewicz at uw.edu.pl (Joanna Jurewicz)
Date: Wed, 19 Apr 17 00:51:27 +0200
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Gita meter
In-Reply-To: <EA8F815D502BC14097213C5D85BA1C652E09E9C4@SPMXM07.VUW.leidenuniv.nl>
Message-ID: <CAAPrgbr9Fxap9nzhNDbvmFK2p4ux7pjaZqRL-4Xpt4EV60-uag@mail.gmail.com>

I agree with Jan Houben as far as 11 th chapter in concerned. Moreover, I
think that  Tri??ubh verses are used in the important emotionally or
intellectually moments in the BhG (and maybe in the whole MBh), for
example, in chapter 2, when Krishna at first does not listen to Arjuna's
despair and begins his teaching only after Arjuna expresses his doubts
in Tri??ubh
verse.

best,

Joanna


---
dr hab. Joanna Jurewicz, prof. UW
Katedra Azji Po?udniowej /Chair of South Asia
Wydzia? Orientalistyczny / Faculty of Oriental Studies
Uniwersytet Warszawski /University of Warsaw
ul. Krakowskie Przedmie?cie 26/28
00-927 Warszawa
https://uw.academia.edu/JoannaJurewicz

2017-04-17 19:24 GMT+02:00 Tieken, H.J.H. via INDOLOGY <
indology at list.indology.info>:

> Now that the focus of this thread has shifted to BhG, chapter 11, the
> following article by Mislav Jezic might be of interest:
>
> "The Tristubh Hymn in the Bhagavadgita".
>
> In: Petteri Koskikallio (ed.), Paralleles and Comparisons. Proceedings of
> the Fourth Dubrovnik Intern. Conf. on the Skt Epics and Puranas. Sept.
> 2005. Zagreb 2009, pp. 31-66.
>
> Herman Tieken
> Stationsweg 58
> 2515 BP Den Haag
> The Netherlands
> 00 31 (0)70 2208127
> website: hermantieken.com
> ------------------------------
> *Van:* INDOLOGY [indology-bounces at list.indology.info] namens George
> Thompson via INDOLOGY [indology at list.indology.info]
> *Verzonden:* maandag 17 april 2017 19:07
> *Aan:* Jan E.M. Houben; indology at list.indology.info
> *Onderwerp:* Re: [INDOLOGY] Gita meter
>
> Hello everyone,
>
> In the  introduction to my Gita translation, I include "A Note on Chapter
> 11," which argues on the basis of metrical and thematic reasons [similar to
> Jan's] that this chapter is an interpolation.  John Brockington has pointed
> out that this chapter does not fit well into its context.  He points out
> that chapter 12 "seems to pick up immediately from chapter 10" [See his
> essay; "The Bhagavadgita: Text and Context" in J.  Lipner's anthology "The
> Fruits of our Desiring: An Enquiry into the Ethics of the BhG for Our
> Times" (Calgary: Bayeux Arts, 1997].  He cites several scholars who have
> argued that the BhG was stitched together by two or more authors.
>
> I hope that this note is useful.
>
> George
>
>
>
>
>
> On Mon, Apr 17, 2017 at 7:32 AM, Jan Houben via INDOLOGY <
> indology at list.indology.info> wrote:
>
>> In the case of the 11th chapter I would consider it a matter of author?s
>> choice of a meter suitable to the particularly awe-inspiring subject.
>>
>> Best, Jan
>>
>>
>>
>> Envoy? de mon t?l?phone Windows 10
>>
>>
>>
>> *De : *Madhav Deshpande via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info>
>> *Envoy? le :*lundi 17 avril 2017 13:17
>> *? : *edbryant at rci.rutgers.edu
>> *Cc : *indology at list.indology.info
>> *Objet :*Re: [INDOLOGY] Gita meter
>>
>>
>>
>> Hello Edwin,
>>
>>
>>
>>      In her article "The Mahabharata's Core" (1975), Mary Carroll Smith
>> has argued that there was an ancient core of the Mahabharata in Tri??ubh
>> verses, which was later expanded by the addition of the narrative in
>> Anu??ubh.  I am not sure how this would account for the metrical variation
>> in the Bhagavadgita, but there is a suggestion from this article.
>>
>>
>>
>> Madhav Deshpande
>>
>> Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA
>>
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Apr 17, 2017 at 7:00 AM, Edwin F. Bryant via INDOLOGY <
>> indology at list.indology.info> wrote:
>>
>>
>> Greetings everyone,
>>
>> Is there anything written about when and why the Gita changes its meter,
>> or does anyone on the list have an opinion about this?  At least in
>> several instances, I can see no narrative reason for this, nor shift in
>> theological content. At least in the second chapter which borrows two
>> verses from the Katha, I wonder whether this occurs with verses being
>> borrowed from elsewhere,  but I don't know.  Has anyone thought about this
>> or can anyone point me to anything written on it?
>>
>> Thanks.  Edwin Bryant.
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
>> committee)
>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
>> unsubscribe)
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
>> committee)
>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
>> unsubscribe)
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
> committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
> unsubscribe)
>


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From wujastyk at gmail.com  Wed Apr 19 03:43:39 2017
From: wujastyk at gmail.com (Dominik Wujastyk)
Date: Tue, 18 Apr 17 21:43:39 -0600
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Buddhavacanam
In-Reply-To: <1490036044.S.17510.27561.f4-235-200.1492498455.5782@webmail.rediffmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAKdt-CcxKx4OP0k7o6Ns2=mF+7G4jk8UchccCZtjUHKUu2U8sA@mail.gmail.com>

The Pali doesn't actually say "Buddha's own dialect".  That's the whole
point of the problem and why it has been discussed by many scholars.  It
says "in his own dialect." This is ambiguous: we don't know whether "his
own" (saka) refers to the Buddha or to a person in the audience.   Is the
Buddha saying "teach people in my language" or "teach people in their own
language?"

?
--
Professor Dominik Wujastyk <http://ualberta.academia.edu/DominikWujastyk>
?,?

Singhmar Chair in Classical Indian Society and Polity
?,?

Department of History and Classics <http://historyandclassics.ualberta.ca/>
?,?
University of Alberta, Canada
?.?

South Asia at the U of A:

?sas.ualberta.ca?
??


On 18 April 2017 at 00:54, alakendu das via INDOLOGY <
indology at list.indology.info> wrote:

> <
>
> Dr.Sandahl,
> I had been curiously following the scholastic deliberations on
> Buddhabachanam.
> Since long, I had an inner feeling that there is actually a reference
> where Siddhartha
> Gautama Buddha insisted on using his own language while propagating his
> teachings. Finally
> I stumbled upon a reference from Chullavagga( a constituent part of Vinaya
> Pitaka),in course
> of studying a chapter on Pali in a certain book on the History of Sanskrit
> Literature. I am
> not conversant in Pali, but the qoute in ChullaVagga has Buddha
> instructing- ANUJANAMI
> VIKHABE SAKAYANIRUTIYA BUDDHABACHANAM PARIYAPUNITUM'(Ref-Chullavagga
> 5.33.1) which roughly
> translates as - While teaching the views of Buddha , one should use
> Buddha's own dialect(
> sakaya Nirutya implies own dialect).About Buddha's own dialect, it is well
> known that hailing
> from Magadha ,BUDDHA spoke Magadhi . There is a further reference ( source
> unknown)which says-
> SO CHA BHAGABA MAGADHO, SA CHA MAGADHE BHABATTYE, SA CHA BHASHA MAGADHI.
> Inspite my poor
> knowledge in Pali,I can understand the above qoute as- Buddha was a
> resident of Magadha and
> his own dialect was Magadhi.
>
> ALAKENDU DAS.
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
> committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
> unsubscribe)
>


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From mailmealakendudas at rediffmail.com  Wed Apr 19 06:38:27 2017
From: mailmealakendudas at rediffmail.com (alakendu das)
Date: Wed, 19 Apr 17 06:38:27 +0000
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Buddhavacanam
In-Reply-To: <CAKdt-CcxKx4OP0k7o6Ns2=mF+7G4jk8UchccCZtjUHKUu2U8sA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1492573440.S.12040.4504.f4-235-222.1492583907.6847@webmail.rediffmail.com>





 Professor Wujastyk,



                        Thank you very much  for your interpretation. I admit, there exists an 

ambiguity regarding the exact connotation of the word' 'sakaya'.I shall make attempts to access a 

a Pali dictionary to get the actual meaning of the word(s).





                                                                ALAKENDU DAS.



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From stella.sandahl at gmail.com  Wed Apr 19 11:04:10 2017
From: stella.sandahl at gmail.com (Stella Sandahl)
Date: Wed, 19 Apr 17 07:04:10 -0400
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Buddhavacanam
In-Reply-To: <CAKdt-CcxKx4OP0k7o6Ns2=mF+7G4jk8UchccCZtjUHKUu2U8sA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <78B81EF4-6518-4FCA-97A1-A0764427E541@gmail.com>

I still think Professor Smith?s interpretation makes sense. nirutti does not refer to any particular language, 
it makes better sense to take sakAya niruttiyA  as "in my own words", i.e. without embroidering on it. The 
Buddha did not want his teaching to be distorted by fanciful interpretations.
What language the Buddha actually spoke is an entirely different question. Was the Buddha really concerned
with the linguistic varieties in India? 
The census takers in modern India ask people what language they speak. A villager from Ratnapur (I have
invented this village name) will say he speaks Ratnapuri. A worker from Hoshiapur will give his language
as Hoshiapuri. 
Stella Sandahl
Professor emerita
University of Toronto



> On Apr 18, 2017, at 11:43 PM, Dominik Wujastyk <wujastyk at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> The Pali doesn't actually say "Buddha's own dialect".  That's the whole point of the problem and why it has been discussed by many scholars.  It says "in his own dialect." This is ambiguous: we don't know whether "his own" (saka) refers to the Buddha or to a person in the audience.   Is the Buddha saying "teach people in my language" or "teach people in their own language?"
> 
> ?--
> Professor Dominik Wujastyk <http://ualberta.academia.edu/DominikWujastyk>?,?
> Singhmar Chair in Classical Indian Society and Polity?,?
> Department of History and Classics <http://historyandclassics.ualberta.ca/>?,?
> University of Alberta, Canada?.?
> South Asia at the U of A: ?sas.ualberta.ca? <http://sas.ualberta.ca/>??
> 
> 
> On 18 April 2017 at 00:54, alakendu das via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info <mailto:indology at list.indology.info>> wrote:
> <
> 
> Dr.Sandahl,
> I had been curiously following the scholastic deliberations on Buddhabachanam. 
> Since long, I had an inner feeling that there is actually a reference where Siddhartha 
> Gautama Buddha insisted on using his own language while propagating his teachings. Finally 
> I stumbled upon a reference from Chullavagga( a constituent part of Vinaya Pitaka),in course 
> of studying a chapter on Pali in a certain book on the History of Sanskrit Literature. I am 
> not conversant in Pali, but the qoute in ChullaVagga has Buddha instructing- ANUJANAMI 
> VIKHABE SAKAYANIRUTIYA BUDDHABACHANAM PARIYAPUNITUM'(Ref-Chullavagga 5.33.1) which roughly 
> translates as - While teaching the views of Buddha , one should use Buddha's own dialect( 
> sakaya Nirutya implies own dialect).About Buddha's own dialect, it is well known that hailing 
> from Magadha ,BUDDHA spoke Magadhi . There is a further reference ( source unknown)which says- 
> SO CHA BHAGABA MAGADHO, SA CHA MAGADHE BHABATTYE, SA CHA BHASHA MAGADHI. Inspite my poor 
> knowledge in Pali,I can understand the above qoute as- Buddha was a resident of Magadha and 
> his own dialect was Magadhi.
> 
> ALAKENDU DAS.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info <mailto:INDOLOGY at list.indology.info>
> indology-owner at list.indology.info <mailto:indology-owner at list.indology.info> (messages to the list's managing committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info <http://listinfo.indology.info/> (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe)
> 



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From karp at uw.edu.pl  Wed Apr 19 11:09:15 2017
From: karp at uw.edu.pl (Artur Karp)
Date: Wed, 19 Apr 17 13:09:15 +0200
Subject: [INDOLOGY] bhikkhu - monk
Message-ID: <CALNcvFsoUvpwEfhUdp_ha9Ew4a3YL-hC+7R6y2Lwdi5mZN501A@mail.gmail.com>

Dear List,



A problem ? probably already solved, many times over, but - recurring, sort
of obstinate.



Now, in texts describing the first days after the Buddha?s Awakening there
appears term *bhikkhu* (*bhikkhave*) ? usually translated as ?monk?
(?monks?).


The typical dictionary definition of the word ?monk? is: ?man in a *religious
order* who lives a life of poverty, chastity and obedience?.



At that early period there was no Buddhist order, not yet. Prof. Stanis?aw
F. Michalski would use in his pre-war Polish translations the word ??ebrak?
(?almsman?, ?beggar?). More appropriate, certainly, but sounding not too
well ? considering the sort of, typically aggresive beggars appearing on
the streets all over the world.



?Monk? (?monks?) seems to prevail, in Poland and everywhere else.


But, my students ask me: the first sermon and its addressees ? a *group of
five monks* ? had they been already made members of the *Buddhist order*?
When and how was that order established?


Respects,


Artur Karp (ret.)


Chair of South Asian Studies

University of Warsaw

Poland


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From Vincent.Eltschinger at oeaw.ac.at  Wed Apr 19 13:00:18 2017
From: Vincent.Eltschinger at oeaw.ac.at (Eltschinger, Vincent)
Date: Wed, 19 Apr 17 13:00:18 +0000
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Buddhavacanam
In-Reply-To: <78B81EF4-6518-4FCA-97A1-A0764427E541@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <E08F605D13D6B843B9BA8E3F7582ABDAFFC9C5E0@w07exdb2.oeaw.ads>

Dear colleagues,
This passage has been the focus of intense discussion for more than one century. As scholars such as Sylvain L?vi, John Brough and Franklin Edgerton have shown, the Chinese parallels are of great relevance, too (most of them are translated in the first pages of Edgerton's BHSG). They clearly testify to the fact that these passages and other relevant passages were interpreted quite differently according to sect-governed sociolinguistic imperatives.
Here is a short bibliographical list on the subject:

Brough, John. 1954. The Language of the Buddhist Sanskrit Texts. Bulletin of the School of Oriental and African Studies 16. 351-375.
Brough, John. 1980. Sak?ya niruttiy?: Cauld kale het. In Bechert, Heinz (ed.), The Language of the Earliest Buddhist Tradition, 35-42. G?ttingen: Vandenhoeck & Ruprecht.
BHSG/D. Edgerton, Franklin. 1993 [19531]. Buddhist Hybrid Sanskrit Gram?mar and Di?c?tion?ary. Vol. II (Dictionary). Delhi: Mo???tilal Banarsidass.
L?vi, Sylvain. 1915. Sur la r?citation primitive des textes bouddhiques. Journal Asiatique, mai-juin 1915. 401-447.
Lin, Li-Kouang. 1949. Introduction au Compendium de la Loi (Dharma-Samuccaya): L?Aide-m?moire de la Vraie Loi (Saddharma-sm?ty-upasth?na-s?tra). Recherches sur un S?tra d?velopp? du Petit V?hicule. Paris: Librairie d?Am?rique et d?Orient Adrien Maisonneuve.
Norman, KR. 1980. The dialects in which the Buddha preached. In Bechert, Heinz (ed.), The Language of the Earliest Buddhist Tradition, 61-77. G?ttingen: Vandenhoeck & Ruprecht. [Reprint in Norman, K.R. 1991. Collected Papers. Vol. II, 128-147. Oxford: Pali Text Society.]
Pollock, Sheldon. 2006. The Language of the Gods in the World of Men, Sanskrit, Culture, and Power in Premodern India. Berkeley, Los Angeles, London: University of California Press.
Seyfort Ruegg, David. 2000. On the Expressions chandaso ?ropema, ?yataka g?tassara, sarabha??a and ?r?a applied to the ?Word of the Buddha? (buddhavacana). In Tsuchida, Ryutaro, Albrecht Wezler (eds.), Har?nandalahar?, Volume in Honour of Professor Minoru Hara on His Seventieth Birthday, 283-306. Reinbek: Dr. Inge Wezler Verlag fur Orientalistische Fachpublikationen.

With best regards,
Vincent Eltschinger

Vincent Eltschinger, korrespondierendes Mitglied der OeAW
Directeur d'?tudes
?cole Pratique des Hautes ?tudes, Section des sciences religieuses
Patios Saint-Jacques, 4-14 rue Ferrus - 75014 Paris
vincent.eltschinger at ephe.sorbonne.fr
0033 1 56 61 17 34 / 0033 7 85 86 84 05
________________________________
Von: INDOLOGY [indology-bounces at list.indology.info]" im Auftrag von "Stella Sandahl via INDOLOGY [indology at list.indology.info]
Gesendet: Mittwoch, 19. April 2017 13:04
An: Wujastyk Dominik
Cc: Indology
Betreff: Re: [INDOLOGY] Buddhavacanam

I still think Professor Smith?s interpretation makes sense. nirutti does not refer to any particular language,
it makes better sense to take sakAya niruttiyA  as "in my own words", i.e. without embroidering on it. The
Buddha did not want his teaching to be distorted by fanciful interpretations.
What language the Buddha actually spoke is an entirely different question. Was the Buddha really concerned
with the linguistic varieties in India?
The census takers in modern India ask people what language they speak. A villager from Ratnapur (I have
invented this village name) will say he speaks Ratnapuri. A worker from Hoshiapur will give his language
as Hoshiapuri.
Stella Sandahl
Professor emerita
University of Toronto



On Apr 18, 2017, at 11:43 PM, Dominik Wujastyk <wujastyk at gmail.com<mailto:wujastyk at gmail.com>> wrote:

The Pali doesn't actually say "Buddha's own dialect".  That's the whole point of the problem and why it has been discussed by many scholars.  It says "in his own dialect." This is ambiguous: we don't know whether "his own" (saka) refers to the Buddha or to a person in the audience.   Is the Buddha saying "teach people in my language" or "teach people in their own language?"

?
--
Professor Dominik Wujastyk<http://ualberta.academia.edu/DominikWujastyk>
?,?

Singhmar Chair in Classical Indian Society and Polity
?,?

Department of History and Classics<http://historyandclassics.ualberta.ca/>
?,?
University of Alberta, Canada
?.?

South Asia at the U of A:

?sas.ualberta.ca?<http://sas.ualberta.ca/>
??


On 18 April 2017 at 00:54, alakendu das via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info<mailto:indology at list.indology.info>> wrote:
<

Dr.Sandahl,
I had been curiously following the scholastic deliberations on Buddhabachanam.
Since long, I had an inner feeling that there is actually a reference where Siddhartha
Gautama Buddha insisted on using his own language while propagating his teachings. Finally
I stumbled upon a reference from Chullavagga( a constituent part of Vinaya Pitaka),in course
of studying a chapter on Pali in a certain book on the History of Sanskrit Literature. I am
not conversant in Pali, but the qoute in ChullaVagga has Buddha instructing- ANUJANAMI
VIKHABE SAKAYANIRUTIYA BUDDHABACHANAM PARIYAPUNITUM'(Ref-Chullavagga 5.33.1) which roughly
translates as - While teaching the views of Buddha , one should use Buddha's own dialect(
sakaya Nirutya implies own dialect).About Buddha's own dialect, it is well known that hailing
from Magadha ,BUDDHA spoke Magadhi . There is a further reference ( source unknown)which says-
SO CHA BHAGABA MAGADHO, SA CHA MAGADHE BHABATTYE, SA CHA BHASHA MAGADHI. Inspite my poor
knowledge in Pali,I can understand the above qoute as- Buddha was a resident of Magadha and
his own dialect was Magadhi.

ALAKENDU DAS.




_______________________________________________
INDOLOGY mailing list
INDOLOGY at list.indology.info<mailto:INDOLOGY at list.indology.info>
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From d.wujastyk at gmail.com  Wed Apr 19 15:52:54 2017
From: d.wujastyk at gmail.com (Dagmar Wujastyk)
Date: Wed, 19 Apr 17 09:52:54 -0600
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Sanskrit literature in numbers
Message-ID: <CAEhxeU2ztpU17P333CKfyKrbDAEn5CLbsemU9Wg+WHzJBE6UBA@mail.gmail.com>

Dear colleagues,

Might anyone be able to point me to a publication/data on the relative
quantities of Sanskrit works and other pre-modern works in languages such
as Latin, Chinese, Tamil, Arabic or Persian?

We all know that there is a very large body of Sanskrit literature, but how
does the number of Sanskrit works compare to works written in other
languages? My sense has always been that Sanskrit literature is
particularly large, but perhaps this is not substantiated by data?

Best wishes,
Dagmar Wujastyk


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From camillo.formigatti at bodleian.ox.ac.uk  Wed Apr 19 16:19:22 2017
From: camillo.formigatti at bodleian.ox.ac.uk (Camillo Formigatti)
Date: Wed, 19 Apr 17 16:19:22 +0000
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Sanskrit literature in numbers
In-Reply-To: <CAEhxeU2ztpU17P333CKfyKrbDAEn5CLbsemU9Wg+WHzJBE6UBA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <0C647B6E904DBB4BAD3A28D522DC73151DA6B6DB@MBX05.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk>

Dear Dagmar,

This is a very interesting question indeed. May I add two other questions to it? Would you like to know the numbers of extant works only or the number of works in general, even if lost? Also, when you write Latin language, for instance, do you mean only classical Latin (whatever this might mean) or every work that has been written in Latin until today (and I?m not thinking of today?s Latin used in the Vatican, I was rather thinking of authors like the Italian poet Giovanni Pascoli (1855 ?1912), who wrote poems in Latin too)?

Best wishes,

Camillo


________________________________

Dr Camillo A. Formigatti
John Clay Sanskrit Librarian

Bodleian Libraries
The Weston Library
Broad Street
Oxford
OX1 3BG

Email: camillo.formigatti at bodleian.ox.ac.uk<mailto:camillo.formigatti at bodleian.ox.ac.uk>
Tel. (office): 01865 (2)77208
www.bodleian.ox.ac.uk<http://www.bodleian.ox.ac.uk/>

From: Dagmar Wujastyk [mailto:d.wujastyk at gmail.com]
Sent: 19 April 2017 16:53
To: indology <INDOLOGY at list.indology.info>
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Sanskrit literature in numbers

Dear colleagues,

Might anyone be able to point me to a publication/data on the relative quantities of Sanskrit works and other pre-modern works in languages such as Latin, Chinese, Tamil, Arabic or Persian?

We all know that there is a very large body of Sanskrit literature, but how does the number of Sanskrit works compare to works written in other languages? My sense has always been that Sanskrit literature is particularly large, but perhaps this is not substantiated by data?

Best wishes,
Dagmar Wujastyk


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From d.wujastyk at gmail.com  Wed Apr 19 16:32:13 2017
From: d.wujastyk at gmail.com (Dagmar Wujastyk)
Date: Wed, 19 Apr 17 10:32:13 -0600
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Sanskrit literature in numbers
In-Reply-To: <0C647B6E904DBB4BAD3A28D522DC73151DA6B6DB@MBX05.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <CAEhxeU1+un0naXUGmJoRkV9xwqbCOJqfYX6QbE7v+YBfyH-Upw@mail.gmail.com>

Dear Camillo,

I must admit I am a bit uncertain where to draw the line. Trying to
quantify Latin literature, I think I would want total numbers that could
then be split up in classical and then everything later? I am not sure what
the cut off date would be.

Best, Dagmar



On 19 April 2017 at 10:19, Camillo Formigatti <
camillo.formigatti at bodleian.ox.ac.uk> wrote:

> Dear Dagmar,
>
>
>
> This is a very interesting question indeed. May I add two other questions
> to it? Would you like to know the numbers of extant works only or the
> number of works in general, even if lost? Also, when you write Latin
> language, for instance, do you mean only classical Latin (whatever this
> might mean) or every work that has been written in Latin until today (and
> I?m not thinking of today?s Latin used in the Vatican, I was rather
> thinking of authors like the Italian poet Giovanni Pascoli (1855 ?1912),
> who wrote poems in Latin too)?
>
>
>
> Best wishes,
>
>
>
> Camillo
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
>
>
> Dr Camillo A. Formigatti
>
> John Clay Sanskrit Librarian
>
>
>
> Bodleian Libraries
>
> The Weston Library
>
> Broad Street
>
> Oxford
>
> OX1 3BG
>
>
>
> Email: camillo.formigatti at bodleian.ox.ac.uk
>
> Tel. (office): 01865 <01%20865> (2)77208
> www.bodleian.ox.ac.uk
>
>
>
> *From:* Dagmar Wujastyk [mailto:d.wujastyk at gmail.com]
> *Sent:* 19 April 2017 16:53
> *To:* indology <INDOLOGY at list.indology.info>
> *Subject:* [INDOLOGY] Sanskrit literature in numbers
>
>
>
> Dear colleagues,
>
>
>
> Might anyone be able to point me to a publication/data on the relative
> quantities of Sanskrit works and other pre-modern works in languages such
> as Latin, Chinese, Tamil, Arabic or Persian?
>
>
>
> We all know that there is a very large body of Sanskrit literature, but
> how does the number of Sanskrit works compare to works written in other
> languages? My sense has always been that Sanskrit literature is
> particularly large, but perhaps this is not substantiated by data?
>
>
>
> Best wishes,
>
> Dagmar Wujastyk
>


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From piotrbalcerowicz1 at gmail.com  Wed Apr 19 18:23:07 2017
From: piotrbalcerowicz1 at gmail.com (Piotr Balcerowicz)
Date: Wed, 19 Apr 17 20:23:07 +0200
Subject: [INDOLOGY] two papers on Mohenjo Daro - a request
Message-ID: <CAFZpg=btbwFSfFdc2mzwfSwa8bfe4K8i4k_m2Of2u-i_aRvzzg@mail.gmail.com>

Dear Colleagues,

I've been trying to get a copy of any of two papers, but with no success.
Does anyone have an access to the two following publications:

Saletore, Bhaskar Anand (1939) "*Identification of a Mohenjo Daro
Figure*", *The
New Review* [Calcutta] 10 (1939) 28-35.

Parpola, Asko (1989) "*The 'fig deity seal' from Mohenjo-Daro: Its
iconography and inscription,*" pp. 227-236 in: Catherine Jarrige (ed.), *South
Asian Archaeology* 1989. (Monographs in World Archaeology, 14.) Madison,
Wisconsin: Prehistory Press.

I would greatly appreciate PDFs.
Best regards,
Piotr Balcerowicz
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
http://balcerowicz.eu/


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From Rupert.Gethin at bristol.ac.uk  Thu Apr 20 08:48:44 2017
From: Rupert.Gethin at bristol.ac.uk (Rupert Gethin)
Date: Thu, 20 Apr 17 09:48:44 +0100
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Job opportunity at the University of Exeter
Message-ID: <a214037b-7307-9170-097e-f5c69a2664de@bristol.ac.uk>

Dear All,

I have been asked to circulate details of this job opportunity at the 
University of Exeter on lists: it seems that there is some interest in 
applications from people working in the field of Indian religions.

Best wishes,

Rupert Gethin

-----


Under 'Liberal Arts' at 
https://jobs.exeter.ac.uk/hrpr_webrecruitment/wrd/run/etrec105gf.open?wvid=3817591jNg

Job title: Senior Lecturer and Director of Liberal Arts
Job reference: P57185
Date posted: 13/04/2017
Application closing date: 16/05/2017
Location
Salary: The starting salary will be from ?41,709 within the Grade G band 
(?41,709 - ?55,998).
Package: Generous holiday allowances, flexible working, pension scheme 
and relocation package (if applicable).
Job category/type: Academic
Job description:

College of Humanities

The University of Exeter is a Russell Group university that combines 
world-class research with very high levels of student satisfaction. 
Exeter has over 21,000 students from more than 130 different countries 
and is in the top 1% of universities in the world with 98% of its 
research rated as being of international quality. Our research focuses 
on some of the most fundamental issues facing humankind today

To further strengthen our activities in Liberal Arts (an innovative, 
challenging and interdisciplinary degree programme) we are seeking to 
appoint a new Senior Lecturer and Director of Liberal Arts (Education 
and Research).

Applicants must be qualified to PhD level and demonstrate genuine 
interdisciplinary research interests which will support their leadership 
and vision for the Liberal Arts programme at Exeter. Applicants must 
also be able to demonstrate a strong potential for research leadership 
with a track record in refereed publications and proven success in 
significant grant capture. The successful applicant will be expected to 
contribute to teaching on the Liberal Arts programme, as well as in 
their 'home' discipline as appropriate.

The successful applicant will be based at our Streatham campus in one of 
the following disciplines: Archaeology, Art History and Visual Culture, 
Classics and Ancient History, Drama, English, Film Studies, History, 
Modern Languages and Theology and Religion.

To view the Job Description and Person Specification document please 
click here.

http://www.admin.ex.ac.uk/personnel/jobs/P57185.pdf

Applicants are encouraged to contact the Associate Dean for Education, 
Prof Marion Gibson (tel: 01392 724431, email: 
Marion.H.Gibson at exeter.ac.uk) to discuss the post further. Informal 
enquiries can also be made to Prof Morwenna Ludlow (tel: 01392 723278, 
email: M.A.Ludlow at exeter.ac.uk). You may also wish to consult our web 
site at http://humanities.exeter.ac.uk/ for further details of the College.

The University of Exeter is an equal opportunity employer which is 
'Positive about Disabled People'. Whilst all applicants will be judged 
on merit alone, we particularly welcome applications from groups 
currently underrepresented in the workforce.


-- 
Rupert Gethin
Professor of Buddhist Studies

University of Bristol
Department of Religion and Theology
3 Woodland Road
Bristol BS8 1TB, UK

http://www.bris.ac.uk/religion/

Telephone: 0117 928 8169
Fax: 0117 331 7933
Email: Rupert.Gethin at bristol.ac.uk





From camillo.formigatti at bodleian.ox.ac.uk  Thu Apr 20 10:16:26 2017
From: camillo.formigatti at bodleian.ox.ac.uk (Camillo Formigatti)
Date: Thu, 20 Apr 17 10:16:26 +0000
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Sanskrit literature in numbers
In-Reply-To: <CAEhxeU1+un0naXUGmJoRkV9xwqbCOJqfYX6QbE7v+YBfyH-Upw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <0C647B6E904DBB4BAD3A28D522DC73151DA6B83E@MBX05.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk>

Dear Dagmar,

As to Latin and Greek literature, I believe that choosing a good periodization is difficult, if you want to do it for comparative purposes. Would you consider Byzantine Greek literature or not? If yes, then why not consider Latin literature from late antiquity, medieval times and Renaissance too?  Would it be on linguistic grounds? I think that then you would be forced to compare the periodization let?s say of South Asian or Central Asian history and the history of each language with that of Latin and Greek. Assuming we are talking also of scientific and technical literature, you would also face the issue of assessing the impact of the late diffusion of printing technology in South Asia and on the other hand how this phenomenon might have affected a possible increase in the composition of works in cultures were printing technology was employed early on, such as China and Japan, due to economic reasons. After all, printers and publishing houses wanted to sell more and more books, and in order to do it they had to publish something.

In one of my articles I briefly touched upon the numbers of Latin, Greek, and vernacular languages manuscripts from the 6th to the 15th century as compared to various estimates of the number of South Asian manuscripts, but again, these numbers again are simply telling us?in an unreliable way?how many books have survived, not how many works were composed.

I apologize for the long and unstructured reply, but lately I?ve been fascinated by questions like the one you asked, only to be baffled by the fact that it seems very difficult to get reliable quantitative data to start with.

Best wishes,

Camillo

________________________________

Dr Camillo A. Formigatti
John Clay Sanskrit Librarian

Bodleian Libraries
The Weston Library
Broad Street
Oxford
OX1 3BG

Email: camillo.formigatti at bodleian.ox.ac.uk<mailto:camillo.formigatti at bodleian.ox.ac.uk>
Tel. (office): 01865 (2)77208
www.bodleian.ox.ac.uk<http://www.bodleian.ox.ac.uk/>

From: Dagmar Wujastyk [mailto:d.wujastyk at gmail.com]
Sent: 19 April 2017 17:32
To: Camillo Formigatti <camillo.formigatti at bodleian.ox.ac.uk>
Cc: indology <INDOLOGY at list.indology.info>
Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] Sanskrit literature in numbers

Dear Camillo,

I must admit I am a bit uncertain where to draw the line. Trying to quantify Latin literature, I think I would want total numbers that could then be split up in classical and then everything later? I am not sure what the cut off date would be.

Best, Dagmar



On 19 April 2017 at 10:19, Camillo Formigatti <camillo.formigatti at bodleian.ox.ac.uk<mailto:camillo.formigatti at bodleian.ox.ac.uk>> wrote:
Dear Dagmar,

This is a very interesting question indeed. May I add two other questions to it? Would you like to know the numbers of extant works only or the number of works in general, even if lost? Also, when you write Latin language, for instance, do you mean only classical Latin (whatever this might mean) or every work that has been written in Latin until today (and I?m not thinking of today?s Latin used in the Vatican, I was rather thinking of authors like the Italian poet Giovanni Pascoli (1855 ?1912), who wrote poems in Latin too)?

Best wishes,

Camillo


________________________________

Dr Camillo A. Formigatti
John Clay Sanskrit Librarian

Bodleian Libraries
The Weston Library
Broad Street
Oxford
OX1 3BG

Email: camillo.formigatti at bodleian.ox.ac.uk<mailto:camillo.formigatti at bodleian.ox.ac.uk>
Tel. (office): 01865<tel:01%20865> (2)77208
www.bodleian.ox.ac.uk<http://www.bodleian.ox.ac.uk/>

From: Dagmar Wujastyk [mailto:d.wujastyk at gmail.com<mailto:d.wujastyk at gmail.com>]
Sent: 19 April 2017 16:53
To: indology <INDOLOGY at list.indology.info<mailto:INDOLOGY at list.indology.info>>
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Sanskrit literature in numbers

Dear colleagues,

Might anyone be able to point me to a publication/data on the relative quantities of Sanskrit works and other pre-modern works in languages such as Latin, Chinese, Tamil, Arabic or Persian?

We all know that there is a very large body of Sanskrit literature, but how does the number of Sanskrit works compare to works written in other languages? My sense has always been that Sanskrit literature is particularly large, but perhaps this is not substantiated by data?

Best wishes,
Dagmar Wujastyk



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From stella.sandahl at gmail.com  Thu Apr 20 14:39:20 2017
From: stella.sandahl at gmail.com (Stella Sandahl)
Date: Thu, 20 Apr 17 14:39:20 +0000
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Buddhavacanam Does anybody have a pdf of Seyfort Ruegg's article? If so may I get a copy? Mille grazie! Stella Sandahl (ssandahl@sympatico.ca)
In-Reply-To: <E08F605D13D6B843B9BA8E3F7582ABDAFFC9C5E0@w07exdb2.oeaw.ads>
Message-ID: <CAExWbHQw-xMrzJOY3QNsGC=bCsMjSAZ+RWfdHSdW-FZC0NzA2w@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Apr 19, 2017 at 9:00 AM Eltschinger, Vincent <
Vincent.Eltschinger at oeaw.ac.at> wrote:

> Dear colleagues,
> This passage has been the focus of intense discussion for more than one
> century. As scholars such as Sylvain L?vi, John Brough and Franklin
> Edgerton have shown, the Chinese parallels are of great relevance, too
> (most of them are translated in the first pages of Edgerton's BHSG). They
> clearly testify to the fact that these passages and other relevant passages
> were interpreted quite differently according to sect-governed
> sociolinguistic imperatives.
> Here is a short bibliographical list on the subject:
>
> Brough, John. 1954. The Language of the Buddhist Sanskrit Texts. *Bulletin
> of the School of Oriental and African Studies* 16. 351-375.
>
> Brough, John. 1980. *Sak?ya niruttiy?*: Cauld kale het. In Bechert, Heinz
> (ed.), *The Language of the Earliest Buddhist Tradition*, 35-42.
> G?ttingen: Vandenhoeck & Ruprecht.
>
> BHSG/D. Edgerton, Franklin. 1993 [19531]. *Buddhist Hybrid Sanskrit
> Gram?mar and Di?c?tion?ary*. Vol. II (Dictionary). Delhi: Mo???tilal
> Banarsidass.
>
> L?vi, Sylvain. 1915. Sur la r?citation primitive des textes bouddhiques. *Journal
> Asiatique*, mai-juin 1915. 401-447.
>
> Lin, Li-Kouang. 1949. *Introduction au Compendium de la Loi
> (Dharma-Samuccaya): L?Aide-m?moire de la Vraie Loi
> (Saddharma-sm?ty-upasth?na-s?tra). Recherches sur un S?tra d?velopp? du
> Petit V?hicule.* Paris: Librairie d?Am?rique et d?Orient Adrien
> Maisonneuve.
>
> Norman, KR. 1980. The dialects in which the Buddha preached. In Bechert,
> Heinz (ed.), *The Language of the Earliest Buddhist Tradition*, 61-77.
> G?ttingen: Vandenhoeck & Ruprecht. [Reprint in Norman, K.R. 1991. *Collected
> Papers*. Vol. II, 128-147. Oxford: Pali Text Society.]
>
> Pollock, Sheldon. 2006. *The Language of the Gods in the World of Men,
> Sanskrit, Culture, and Power in Premodern India*. Berkeley, Los Angeles,
> London: University of California Press.
>
> Seyfort Ruegg, David. 2000. On the Expressions *chandaso ?ropema*, *?yataka
> g?tassara*, *sarabha??a* and *?r?a* applied to the ?Word of the Buddha? (
> *buddhavacana*). In Tsuchida, Ryutaro, Albrecht Wezler (eds.), *Har?nandalahar?,
> Volume in Honour of Professor Minoru Hara on His Seventieth Birthday*,
> 283-306. Reinbek: Dr. Inge Wezler Verlag fur Orientalistische
> Fachpublikationen.
>
> With best regards,
> Vincent Eltschinger
>
> Vincent Eltschinger, korrespondierendes Mitglied der OeAW
> Directeur d'?tudes
> ?cole Pratique des Hautes ?tudes, Section des sciences religieuses
> Patios Saint-Jacques, 4-14 rue Ferrus - 75014 Paris
> vincent.eltschinger at ephe.sorbonne.fr
> 0033 1 56 61 17 34 / 0033 7 85 86 84 05
> ------------------------------
> *Von:* INDOLOGY [indology-bounces at list.indology.info]" im Auftrag von
> "Stella Sandahl via INDOLOGY [indology at list.indology.info]
> *Gesendet:* Mittwoch, 19. April 2017 13:04
> *An:* Wujastyk Dominik
> *Cc:* Indology
> *Betreff:* Re: [INDOLOGY] Buddhavacanam
>
> I still think Professor Smith?s interpretation makes sense. nirutti does
> not refer to any particular language,
> it makes better sense to take sakAya niruttiyA  as "in my own words", i.e.
> without embroidering on it. The
> Buddha did not want his teaching to be distorted by fanciful
> interpretations.
> What language the Buddha actually spoke is an entirely different question.
> Was the Buddha really concerned
> with the linguistic varieties in India?
> The census takers in modern India ask people what language they speak. A
> villager from Ratnapur (I have
> invented this village name) will say he speaks Ratnapuri. A worker from
> Hoshiapur will give his language
> as Hoshiapuri.
> Stella Sandahl
> Professor emerita
> University of Toronto
>
>
>
> On Apr 18, 2017, at 11:43 PM, Dominik Wujastyk <wujastyk at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> The Pali doesn't actually say "Buddha's own dialect".  That's the whole
> point of the problem and why it has been discussed by many scholars.  It
> says "in his own dialect." This is ambiguous: we don't know whether "his
> own" (saka) refers to the Buddha or to a person in the audience.   Is the
> Buddha saying "teach people in my language" or "teach people in their own
> language?"
>
> ?
> --
> Professor Dominik Wujastyk <http://ualberta.academia.edu/DominikWujastyk>
> ?,?
>
> Singhmar Chair in Classical Indian Society and Polity
> ?,?
>
> Department of History and Classics
> <http://historyandclassics.ualberta.ca/>
> ?,?
> University of Alberta, Canada
> ?.?
>
> South Asia at the U of A:
>
> ?sas.ualberta.ca?
> ??
>
>
> On 18 April 2017 at 00:54, alakendu das via INDOLOGY <
> indology at list.indology.info> wrote:
>
>> <
>>
>> Dr.Sandahl,
>> I had been curiously following the scholastic deliberations on
>> Buddhabachanam.
>> Since long, I had an inner feeling that there is actually a reference
>> where Siddhartha
>> Gautama Buddha insisted on using his own language while propagating his
>> teachings. Finally
>> I stumbled upon a reference from Chullavagga( a constituent part of
>> Vinaya Pitaka),in course
>> of studying a chapter on Pali in a certain book on the History of
>> Sanskrit Literature. I am
>> not conversant in Pali, but the qoute in ChullaVagga has Buddha
>> instructing- ANUJANAMI
>> VIKHABE SAKAYANIRUTIYA BUDDHABACHANAM PARIYAPUNITUM'(Ref-Chullavagga
>> 5.33.1) which roughly
>> translates as - While teaching the views of Buddha , one should use
>> Buddha's own dialect(
>> sakaya Nirutya implies own dialect).About Buddha's own dialect, it is
>> well known that hailing
>> from Magadha ,BUDDHA spoke Magadhi . There is a further reference (
>> source unknown)which says-
>> SO CHA BHAGABA MAGADHO, SA CHA MAGADHE BHABATTYE, SA CHA BHASHA MAGADHI.
>> Inspite my poor
>> knowledge in Pali,I can understand the above qoute as- Buddha was a
>> resident of Magadha and
>> his own dialect was Magadhi.
>>
>> ALAKENDU DAS.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
>> committee)
>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
>> unsubscribe)
>>
>
>
>


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From buescherhartmut at gmail.com  Thu Apr 20 18:45:48 2017
From: buescherhartmut at gmail.com (Hartmut Buescher)
Date: Thu, 20 Apr 17 20:45:48 +0200
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Sanskrit literature in numbers
In-Reply-To: <0C647B6E904DBB4BAD3A28D522DC73151DA6B83E@MBX05.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <CAGsvHi_4_4ybAn83qpPcsRNirTC2cRH75_at-_YJg-TW9nhHWg@mail.gmail.com>

Some remarks in addition to Camillo?s reflections seem necessary,
since there are further reasons ?to be baffled by the fact that it seems
very difficult to get reliable quantitative data to start with?.
After all, his assertion (given with reference to ?estimates of the number
of South Asian manuscripts?) that ?numbers again are simply telling us
?in an unreliable way?how many books have survived, not how many works
were composed? is unfortunately not quite adequate;
and if rectified by saying at least ?in an extremely unreliable way?, as is
unavoidable
to do for someone familiar with collections of Sanskrit manuscripts, there
is still this
lingering implicit assumption that a manuscript may be equated with a
work/book
that needs to be radically discarded.

Not only do we all as Sanskrit scholars know that the production of a
critical edition
of a single work usually is based on a number of available manuscripts that
in fact,
depending on the work to be edited, may greatly vary from just a few to
dozens (& more),
but taking just a look at the *New Catalogus Catalogorum* immediately
reveals an
enormous variation regarding the proportion that exists between a given
work and
the amount of manuscripts transmitting it.
As to the notion of a ?manuscript? hereby, in lucky cases the given MS is
complete.
Frequently, however, if not most frequently (another uncertain proportion),
it is fragmentary.

Yet, of course, also fragmentary MSS (be it even one consisting in a single
folio or less)
must be principally regarded as being able to provide valid manuscript
evidence,
supportive readings and, as the case may be, crucial textual variants,
insights into the given textual transmission, etc.

On the other hand, huge texts, the more so when provided with a commentary,
cannot be comprised by single manuscripts, even when complete.
Presently engaged in describing a so-called *Pa??it Collection*
(acquired by the Royal Library/Det Kongelige Bibliotek, Copenhagen, in
1924),
I recall, just to give an example, that each of the 12 books (*skandha*)
of the *Bh?gavatapur??a* with ?r?dhara?s commentary *Bh?v?rthad?pik?*
conveniently amounted to a separate manuscript.

Yet again, a given MS may likewise, easily in the case of *stotra*s,
various kinds of
ritual texts (and other textual genres), contain many more than just a
single work.
Neither should it be felt as particularly surprising when discovering that
what at some time had been assembled (and put into an envelope), say, by an
owner
of a Sanskrit collection as if consisting in a single MS turns out, on
closer inspection,
to actually consist in numerous fragments of altogether heterogeneous
character
(in terms of textual sources, scribes, material quality, etc.).

Furthermore, to address the problem of quantification from yet another
perspective,
not all the MSS contained in a given collection (like the mentioned *Pa??it
Collection*)
may a priori be counted as philologically ? implying philology to be a
methodologically
strict science untouched by either traditional naiveness or pretentious
instances of
post-modern clownery ? valid documents with justified claims of pertinently
representing
a given work: the numerous cases of orthographically somewhat uneducated
scribes apart,
a not all too great, but an uncertain (if tiny) percentage of MSS simply
represents
the work ? throwing tangible light on the sociological aspects of textual
transmission ?
consisting in the more or less clumsy writing exercises by pupils
(typically found
in the areas of both *?ruti* and *sm?ti*).

In other words, given also the published version of the hopefully ongoing
project of
the *New Catalogus Catalogorum* has (even with the future conclusion of the
letter *h*)
to be characterized as being, though already advanced, still only a
preliminary assessment
of what has survived, it seems quite important, when assessing the amount of
pre-modern works in Sanskrit, to be aware of the fact that the relevant
notion
of ?manuscript? itself is considerably complex (on the empirical level of
what is
actually found in Sanskrit collections), thus turning the correlation
between MSS
and proper works into an highly problematic issue, if taken as a basis for
quantitative
estimates of the literary cultures expressed in the medium of that language.

Best wishes,

Hartmut

--------------------------------
Hartmut Buescher, PhD,
Research Librarian
The Royal Danish Library, Copenhagen
(Det Kongelige Bibiliotek)
[http://www.kb.dk/en/index.html]






On Thu, Apr 20, 2017 at 12:16 PM, Camillo Formigatti via INDOLOGY <
indology at list.indology.info> wrote:

> Dear Dagmar,
>
>
>
> As to Latin and Greek literature, I believe that choosing a good
> periodization is difficult, if you want to do it for comparative purposes.
> Would you consider Byzantine Greek literature or not? If yes, then why not
> consider Latin literature from late antiquity, medieval times and
> Renaissance too?  Would it be on linguistic grounds? I think that then you
> would be forced to compare the periodization let?s say of South Asian or
> Central Asian history and the history of each language with that of Latin
> and Greek. Assuming we are talking also of scientific and technical
> literature, you would also face the issue of assessing the impact of the
> late diffusion of printing technology in South Asia and on the other hand
> how this phenomenon might have affected a possible increase in the
> composition of works in cultures were printing technology was employed
> early on, such as China and Japan, due to economic reasons. After all,
> printers and publishing houses wanted to sell more and more books, and in
> order to do it they had to publish something.
>
>
>
> In one of my articles I briefly touched upon the numbers of Latin, Greek,
> and vernacular languages manuscripts from the 6th to the 15th century as
> compared to various estimates of the number of South Asian manuscripts, but
> again, these numbers again are simply telling us?in an unreliable way?how
> many books have survived, not how many works were composed.
>
>
>
> I apologize for the long and unstructured reply, but lately I?ve been
> fascinated by questions like the one you asked, only to be baffled by the
> fact that it seems very difficult to get reliable quantitative data to
> start with.
>
>
>
> Best wishes,
>
>
>
> Camillo
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
>
>
> Dr Camillo A. Formigatti
>
> John Clay Sanskrit Librarian
>
>
>
> Bodleian Libraries
>
> The Weston Library
>
> Broad Street
>
> Oxford
>
> OX1 3BG
>
>
>
> Email: camillo.formigatti at bodleian.ox.ac.uk
>
> Tel. (office): 01865 (2)77208
> www.bodleian.ox.ac.uk
>
>
>
> *From:* Dagmar Wujastyk [mailto:d.wujastyk at gmail.com]
> *Sent:* 19 April 2017 17:32
> *To:* Camillo Formigatti <camillo.formigatti at bodleian.ox.ac.uk>
> *Cc:* indology <INDOLOGY at list.indology.info>
> *Subject:* Re: [INDOLOGY] Sanskrit literature in numbers
>
>
>
> Dear Camillo,
>
>
>
> I must admit I am a bit uncertain where to draw the line. Trying to
> quantify Latin literature, I think I would want total numbers that could
> then be split up in classical and then everything later? I am not sure what
> the cut off date would be.
>
>
>
> Best, Dagmar
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On 19 April 2017 at 10:19, Camillo Formigatti <
> camillo.formigatti at bodleian.ox.ac.uk> wrote:
>
> Dear Dagmar,
>
>
>
> This is a very interesting question indeed. May I add two other questions
> to it? Would you like to know the numbers of extant works only or the
> number of works in general, even if lost? Also, when you write Latin
> language, for instance, do you mean only classical Latin (whatever this
> might mean) or every work that has been written in Latin until today (and
> I?m not thinking of today?s Latin used in the Vatican, I was rather
> thinking of authors like the Italian poet Giovanni Pascoli (1855 ?1912),
> who wrote poems in Latin too)?
>
>
>
> Best wishes,
>
>
>
> Camillo
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
>
>
> Dr Camillo A. Formigatti
>
> John Clay Sanskrit Librarian
>
>
>
> Bodleian Libraries
>
> The Weston Library
>
> Broad Street
>
> Oxford
>
> OX1 3BG
>
>
>
> Email: camillo.formigatti at bodleian.ox.ac.uk
>
> Tel. (office): 01865 <01%20865> (2)77208
> www.bodleian.ox.ac.uk
>
>
>
> *From:* Dagmar Wujastyk [mailto:d.wujastyk at gmail.com]
> *Sent:* 19 April 2017 16:53
> *To:* indology <INDOLOGY at list.indology.info>
> *Subject:* [INDOLOGY] Sanskrit literature in numbers
>
>
>
> Dear colleagues,
>
>
>
> Might anyone be able to point me to a publication/data on the relative
> quantities of Sanskrit works and other pre-modern works in languages such
> as Latin, Chinese, Tamil, Arabic or Persian?
>
>
>
> We all know that there is a very large body of Sanskrit literature, but
> how does the number of Sanskrit works compare to works written in other
> languages? My sense has always been that Sanskrit literature is
> particularly large, but perhaps this is not substantiated by data?
>
>
>
> Best wishes,
>
> Dagmar Wujastyk
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
> committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
> unsubscribe)
>


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From wujastyk at gmail.com  Thu Apr 20 19:14:12 2017
From: wujastyk at gmail.com (Dominik Wujastyk)
Date: Thu, 20 Apr 17 13:14:12 -0600
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Sanskrit literature in numbers
In-Reply-To: <CAGsvHi_4_4ybAn83qpPcsRNirTC2cRH75_at-_YJg-TW9nhHWg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAKdt-Cd3hAocF4bw+w+VD=fCVwt56VN_82KwVYceq3xWEri6QA@mail.gmail.com>

I don't think anybody has suggested an equivalence between works and
manuscripts, have they?  Thoughtfully-designed projects, like
Panditproject.org, and the Woolner Project database
<https://www.istb.univie.ac.at/cgi-bin/smwc/smwc.cgi> and, outside our
field, Philobiblon <http://bancroft.berkeley.edu/philobiblon/> or Syriaca
<http://syriaca.org/work/609>, have the work-manuscript distinction in
their DNA.

Best,
Dominik Wujastyk


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From buescherhartmut at gmail.com  Thu Apr 20 21:00:52 2017
From: buescherhartmut at gmail.com (Hartmut Buescher)
Date: Thu, 20 Apr 17 23:00:52 +0200
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Sanskrit literature in numbers
In-Reply-To: <CAKdt-Cd3hAocF4bw+w+VD=fCVwt56VN_82KwVYceq3xWEri6QA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAGsvHi-DLWwf9dy+rjyvmHhdpDEXi59mokES=roz7KrxJrF4DQ@mail.gmail.com>

Dear Dominik,

actually I don't assume that Camillo is not in fact aware of the
distinction,
but found his assertion (?[...] various estimates of the number of South
Asian manuscripts,
but again, these numbers again are simply telling us?in an unreliable
way?how many books
have survived, not how many works were composed?) to be a bit unclear in
that respect,
given particularly the ?how? is problematic.

Of course, his point that we don't know how much is lost is obvious.
But, given that both the very notion of a Sanskrit manuscript as well as
the correlation
between manuscripts and works are rather complex, there is a tendency of
oversimplification
when asserting that the numbers of manuscripts ?are simply telling us ...
how many books have survived?.

My point has merely been to reemphasize the nature of these complexities,
thereby some of the implicit problems concerning our basis for answering
questions
concerning quantitative assessments of the ?body of Sanskrit literature?
generated
in pre-modern times.

Best wishes,

Hartmut




On Thu, Apr 20, 2017 at 9:14 PM, Dominik Wujastyk <wujastyk at gmail.com>
wrote:

> I don't think anybody has suggested an equivalence between works and
> manuscripts, have they?  Thoughtfully-designed projects, like
> Panditproject.org, and the Woolner Project database
> <https://www.istb.univie.ac.at/cgi-bin/smwc/smwc.cgi> and, outside our
> field, Philobiblon <http://bancroft.berkeley.edu/philobiblon/> or Syriaca
> <http://syriaca.org/work/609>, have the work-manuscript distinction in
> their DNA.
>
> Best,
> Dominik Wujastyk
>


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From wujastyk at gmail.com  Thu Apr 20 21:23:37 2017
From: wujastyk at gmail.com (Dominik Wujastyk)
Date: Thu, 20 Apr 17 15:23:37 -0600
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Sanskrit literature in numbers
In-Reply-To: <CAGsvHi-DLWwf9dy+rjyvmHhdpDEXi59mokES=roz7KrxJrF4DQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAKdt-CcPDy60tzrmC8tN0TndQFV20rJowNoQvAMb1VCgcjiRXQ@mail.gmail.com>

Yes, understood.

Incidentally, Chandrabhal Tripathi's introduction to his catalogue of the
Jaina MSS in Strasbourg discusses these many-to-one and one-to-many
problems well, as presented by manuscripts.  His introduction is worthy of
being treated as a good primer on manuscript studies in general.

Best wishes,
Dominik Wujastyk


Tripa?t?hi?, Chandrabha?l. *Catalogue of the Jaina Manuscripts at
Strasbourg*. *Indologia Berolinensis?; Bd. 4*. Indologia Berolinensis?; Bd.
4. Leiden: E. J. Brill, 1975
Originally presented as the author? thesis, Freie Universita?t, Berlin.



?
--
Professor Dominik Wujastyk <http://ualberta.academia.edu/DominikWujastyk>
?,?

Singhmar Chair in Classical Indian Society and Polity
?,?

Department of History and Classics <http://historyandclassics.ualberta.ca/>
?,?
University of Alberta, Canada
?.?

South Asia at the U of A:

?sas.ualberta.ca?
??


On 20 April 2017 at 15:00, Hartmut Buescher <buescherhartmut at gmail.com>
wrote:

> Dear Dominik,
>
> actually I don't assume that Camillo is not in fact aware of the
> distinction,
>
?[...]?


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From Bradley.Clough at mso.umt.edu  Fri Apr 21 00:13:15 2017
From: Bradley.Clough at mso.umt.edu (Clough, Bradley)
Date: Fri, 21 Apr 17 00:13:15 +0000
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Buddhavacanam Does anybody have a pdf of Seyfort Ruegg's article? If so may I get a copy? Mille grazie! Stella Sandahl (ssandahl@sympatico.ca)
In-Reply-To: <CAExWbHQw-xMrzJOY3QNsGC=bCsMjSAZ+RWfdHSdW-FZC0NzA2w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <7BDB29D4-C32C-451B-A513-35A41A712B2D@mso.umt.edu>

I too am interested in receiving the Ruegg PDF if someone has it!

Many Thanks!
Brad

Dr. Bradley S. Clough
Global Humanities and Religions
LA 101
The University of Montana
32 Campus Drive
Missoula, MT 59812

bradley.clough at mso.umt.edu<mailto:bradley.clough at mso.umt.edu>
Phone: 406-243-2837
Fax: 406-243-4076

On Apr 20, 2017, at 8:39 AM, Stella Sandahl via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info<mailto:indology at list.indology.info>> wrote:


On Wed, Apr 19, 2017 at 9:00 AM Eltschinger, Vincent <Vincent.Eltschinger at oeaw.ac.at<mailto:Vincent.Eltschinger at oeaw.ac.at>> wrote:
Dear colleagues,
This passage has been the focus of intense discussion for more than one century. As scholars such as Sylvain L?vi, John Brough and Franklin Edgerton have shown, the Chinese parallels are of great relevance, too (most of them are translated in the first pages of Edgerton's BHSG). They clearly testify to the fact that these passages and other relevant passages were interpreted quite differently according to sect-governed sociolinguistic imperatives.
Here is a short bibliographical list on the subject:

Brough, John. 1954. The Language of the Buddhist Sanskrit Texts. Bulletin of the School of Oriental and African Studies 16. 351-375.
Brough, John. 1980. Sak?ya niruttiy?: Cauld kale het. In Bechert, Heinz (ed.), The Language of the Earliest Buddhist Tradition, 35-42. G?ttingen: Vandenhoeck & Ruprecht.
BHSG/D. Edgerton, Franklin. 1993 [19531]. Buddhist Hybrid Sanskrit Gram?mar and Di?c?tion?ary. Vol. II (Dictionary). Delhi: Mo???tilal Banarsidass.
L?vi, Sylvain. 1915. Sur la r?citation primitive des textes bouddhiques. Journal Asiatique, mai-juin 1915. 401-447.
Lin, Li-Kouang. 1949. Introduction au Compendium de la Loi (Dharma-Samuccaya): L?Aide-m?moire de la Vraie Loi (Saddharma-sm?ty-upasth?na-s?tra). Recherches sur un S?tra d?velopp? du Petit V?hicule. Paris: Librairie d?Am?rique et d?Orient Adrien Maisonneuve.
Norman, KR. 1980. The dialects in which the Buddha preached. In Bechert, Heinz (ed.), The Language of the Earliest Buddhist Tradition, 61-77. G?ttingen: Vandenhoeck & Ruprecht. [Reprint in Norman, K.R. 1991. Collected Papers. Vol. II, 128-147. Oxford: Pali Text Society.]
Pollock, Sheldon. 2006. The Language of the Gods in the World of Men, Sanskrit, Culture, and Power in Premodern India. Berkeley, Los Angeles, London: University of California Press.
Seyfort Ruegg, David. 2000. On the Expressions chandaso ?ropema, ?yataka g?tassara, sarabha??a and ?r?a applied to the ?Word of the Buddha? (buddhavacana). In Tsuchida, Ryutaro, Albrecht Wezler (eds.), Har?nandalahar?, Volume in Honour of Professor Minoru Hara on His Seventieth Birthday, 283-306. Reinbek: Dr. Inge Wezler Verlag fur Orientalistische Fachpublikationen.

With best regards,
Vincent Eltschinger

Vincent Eltschinger, korrespondierendes Mitglied der OeAW
Directeur d'?tudes
?cole Pratique des Hautes ?tudes, Section des sciences religieuses
Patios Saint-Jacques, 4-14 rue Ferrus - 75014 Paris
vincent.eltschinger at ephe.sorbonne.fr<mailto:vincent.eltschinger at ephe.sorbonne.fr>
0033 1 56 61 17 34 / 0033 7 85 86 84 05
________________________________
Von: INDOLOGY [indology-bounces at list.indology.info<mailto:indology-bounces at list.indology.info>]" im Auftrag von "Stella Sandahl via INDOLOGY [indology at list.indology.info<mailto:indology at list.indology.info>]
Gesendet: Mittwoch, 19. April 2017 13:04
An: Wujastyk Dominik
Cc: Indology
Betreff: Re: [INDOLOGY] Buddhavacanam

I still think Professor Smith?s interpretation makes sense. nirutti does not refer to any particular language,
it makes better sense to take sakAya niruttiyA  as "in my own words", i.e. without embroidering on it. The
Buddha did not want his teaching to be distorted by fanciful interpretations.
What language the Buddha actually spoke is an entirely different question. Was the Buddha really concerned
with the linguistic varieties in India?
The census takers in modern India ask people what language they speak. A villager from Ratnapur (I have
invented this village name) will say he speaks Ratnapuri. A worker from Hoshiapur will give his language
as Hoshiapuri.
Stella Sandahl
Professor emerita
University of Toronto



On Apr 18, 2017, at 11:43 PM, Dominik Wujastyk <wujastyk at gmail.com<mailto:wujastyk at gmail.com>> wrote:

The Pali doesn't actually say "Buddha's own dialect".  That's the whole point of the problem and why it has been discussed by many scholars.  It says "in his own dialect." This is ambiguous: we don't know whether "his own" (saka) refers to the Buddha or to a person in the audience.   Is the Buddha saying "teach people in my language" or "teach people in their own language?"

?
--
Professor Dominik Wujastyk<http://ualberta.academia.edu/DominikWujastyk>
?,?

Singhmar Chair in Classical Indian Society and Polity
?,?

Department of History and Classics<http://historyandclassics.ualberta.ca/>
?,?
University of Alberta, Canada
?.?

South Asia at the U of A:

?sas.ualberta.ca?<http://sas.ualberta.ca/>
??


On 18 April 2017 at 00:54, alakendu das via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info<mailto:indology at list.indology.info>> wrote:
<

Dr.Sandahl,
I had been curiously following the scholastic deliberations on Buddhabachanam.
Since long, I had an inner feeling that there is actually a reference where Siddhartha
Gautama Buddha insisted on using his own language while propagating his teachings. Finally
I stumbled upon a reference from Chullavagga( a constituent part of Vinaya Pitaka),in course
of studying a chapter on Pali in a certain book on the History of Sanskrit Literature. I am
not conversant in Pali, but the qoute in ChullaVagga has Buddha instructing- ANUJANAMI
VIKHABE SAKAYANIRUTIYA BUDDHABACHANAM PARIYAPUNITUM'(Ref-Chullavagga 5.33.1) which roughly
translates as - While teaching the views of Buddha , one should use Buddha's own dialect(
sakaya Nirutya implies own dialect).About Buddha's own dialect, it is well known that hailing
from Magadha ,BUDDHA spoke Magadhi . There is a further reference ( source unknown)which says-
SO CHA BHAGABA MAGADHO, SA CHA MAGADHE BHABATTYE, SA CHA BHASHA MAGADHI. Inspite my poor
knowledge in Pali,I can understand the above qoute as- Buddha was a resident of Magadha and
his own dialect was Magadhi.

ALAKENDU DAS.




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From antonio.jardim at gmail.com  Fri Apr 21 02:01:03 2017
From: antonio.jardim at gmail.com (Antonio Ferreira-Jardim)
Date: Fri, 21 Apr 17 12:01:03 +1000
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Buddhavacanam
In-Reply-To: <E08F605D13D6B843B9BA8E3F7582ABDAFFC9C5E0@w07exdb2.oeaw.ads>
Message-ID: <CAGDOqfoLj5z+Fp2ZQcOALuV1ty-2WwSH3sA0wVzDzL7COFW9Cg@mail.gmail.com>

Dear list,

Just further on this discussion, I would recommend reading the recent
works of Bryan Levman - particularly his recent article: "Sak?ya
niruttiy? Revisited" in the BEI. A scanned copy is available here:
http://www.sareligionuoft.ca/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/Levman-sak%C4%81ya-niruttiy%C4%81.pdf

A fairly recent bibliography of Dr Levman's works is available here:
http://www.sareligionuoft.ca/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/Levman-bibliography.pdf
Links to many of his articles is available here:
http://www.sareligionuoft.ca/people/alumni-and-alumnae/bryan-levman/articles-and-chapters-bryan-levman/

Kind regards,
Antonio Ferreira-Jardim
UQ


On Wed, Apr 19, 2017 at 11:00 PM, Eltschinger, Vincent via INDOLOGY
<indology at list.indology.info> wrote:
> Dear colleagues,
> This passage has been the focus of intense discussion for more than one
> century. As scholars such as Sylvain L?vi, John Brough and Franklin Edgerton
> have shown, the Chinese parallels are of great relevance, too (most of them
> are translated in the first pages of Edgerton's BHSG). They clearly testify
> to the fact that these passages and other relevant passages were interpreted
> quite differently according to sect-governed sociolinguistic imperatives.
> Here is a short bibliographical list on the subject:
>
> Brough, John. 1954. The Language of the Buddhist Sanskrit Texts. Bulletin of
> the School of Oriental and African Studies 16. 351-375.
>
> Brough, John. 1980. Sak?ya niruttiy?: Cauld kale het. In Bechert, Heinz
> (ed.), The Language of the Earliest Buddhist Tradition, 35-42. G?ttingen:
> Vandenhoeck & Ruprecht.
>
> BHSG/D. Edgerton, Franklin. 1993 [19531]. Buddhist Hybrid Sanskrit Gram?mar
> and Di?c?tion?ary. Vol. II (Dictionary). Delhi: Mo???tilal Banarsidass.
>
> L?vi, Sylvain. 1915. Sur la r?citation primitive des textes bouddhiques.
> Journal Asiatique, mai-juin 1915. 401-447.
>
> Lin, Li-Kouang. 1949. Introduction au Compendium de la Loi
> (Dharma-Samuccaya): L?Aide-m?moire de la Vraie Loi
> (Saddharma-sm?ty-upasth?na-s?tra). Recherches sur un S?tra d?velopp? du
> Petit V?hicule. Paris: Librairie d?Am?rique et d?Orient Adrien Maisonneuve.
>
> Norman, KR. 1980. The dialects in which the Buddha preached. In Bechert,
> Heinz (ed.), The Language of the Earliest Buddhist Tradition, 61-77.
> G?ttingen: Vandenhoeck & Ruprecht. [Reprint in Norman, K.R. 1991. Collected
> Papers. Vol. II, 128-147. Oxford: Pali Text Society.]
>
> Pollock, Sheldon. 2006. The Language of the Gods in the World of Men,
> Sanskrit, Culture, and Power in Premodern India. Berkeley, Los Angeles,
> London: University of California Press.
>
> Seyfort Ruegg, David. 2000. On the Expressions chandaso ?ropema, ?yataka
> g?tassara, sarabha??a and ?r?a applied to the ?Word of the Buddha?
> (buddhavacana). In Tsuchida, Ryutaro, Albrecht Wezler (eds.),
> Har?nandalahar?, Volume in Honour of Professor Minoru Hara on His Seventieth
> Birthday, 283-306. Reinbek: Dr. Inge Wezler Verlag fur Orientalistische
> Fachpublikationen.
>
>
> With best regards,
> Vincent Eltschinger
>
> Vincent Eltschinger, korrespondierendes Mitglied der OeAW
> Directeur d'?tudes
> ?cole Pratique des Hautes ?tudes, Section des sciences religieuses
> Patios Saint-Jacques, 4-14 rue Ferrus - 75014 Paris
> vincent.eltschinger at ephe.sorbonne.fr
> 0033 1 56 61 17 34 / 0033 7 85 86 84 05
> ________________________________
> Von: INDOLOGY [indology-bounces at list.indology.info]" im Auftrag von "Stella
> Sandahl via INDOLOGY [indology at list.indology.info]
> Gesendet: Mittwoch, 19. April 2017 13:04
> An: Wujastyk Dominik
> Cc: Indology
> Betreff: Re: [INDOLOGY] Buddhavacanam
>
> I still think Professor Smith?s interpretation makes sense. nirutti does not
> refer to any particular language,
> it makes better sense to take sakAya niruttiyA  as "in my own words", i.e.
> without embroidering on it. The
> Buddha did not want his teaching to be distorted by fanciful
> interpretations.
> What language the Buddha actually spoke is an entirely different question.
> Was the Buddha really concerned
> with the linguistic varieties in India?
> The census takers in modern India ask people what language they speak. A
> villager from Ratnapur (I have
> invented this village name) will say he speaks Ratnapuri. A worker from
> Hoshiapur will give his language
> as Hoshiapuri.
> Stella Sandahl
> Professor emerita
> University of Toronto
>
>
>
> On Apr 18, 2017, at 11:43 PM, Dominik Wujastyk <wujastyk at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> The Pali doesn't actually say "Buddha's own dialect".  That's the whole
> point of the problem and why it has been discussed by many scholars.  It
> says "in his own dialect." This is ambiguous: we don't know whether "his
> own" (saka) refers to the Buddha or to a person in the audience.   Is the
> Buddha saying "teach people in my language" or "teach people in their own
> language?"
>
> --
> Professor Dominik Wujastyk
> ,
>
> Singhmar Chair in Classical Indian Society and Polity
> ,
>
> Department of History and Classics
> ,
> University of Alberta, Canada
> .
>
> South Asia at the U of A:
>
> sas.ualberta.ca
>
>
> On 18 April 2017 at 00:54, alakendu das via INDOLOGY
> <indology at list.indology.info> wrote:
>>
>> <
>>
>> Dr.Sandahl,
>> I had been curiously following the scholastic deliberations on
>> Buddhabachanam.
>> Since long, I had an inner feeling that there is actually a reference
>> where Siddhartha
>> Gautama Buddha insisted on using his own language while propagating his
>> teachings. Finally
>> I stumbled upon a reference from Chullavagga( a constituent part of Vinaya
>> Pitaka),in course
>> of studying a chapter on Pali in a certain book on the History of Sanskrit
>> Literature. I am
>> not conversant in Pali, but the qoute in ChullaVagga has Buddha
>> instructing- ANUJANAMI
>> VIKHABE SAKAYANIRUTIYA BUDDHABACHANAM PARIYAPUNITUM'(Ref-Chullavagga
>> 5.33.1) which roughly
>> translates as - While teaching the views of Buddha , one should use
>> Buddha's own dialect(
>> sakaya Nirutya implies own dialect).About Buddha's own dialect, it is well
>> known that hailing
>> from Magadha ,BUDDHA spoke Magadhi . There is a further reference ( source
>> unknown)which says-
>> SO CHA BHAGABA MAGADHO, SA CHA MAGADHE BHABATTYE, SA CHA BHASHA MAGADHI.
>> Inspite my poor
>> knowledge in Pali,I can understand the above qoute as- Buddha was a
>> resident of Magadha and
>> his own dialect was Magadhi.
>>
>> ALAKENDU DAS.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
>> committee)
>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
>> unsubscribe)
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
> committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
> unsubscribe)





From ondracka at ff.cuni.cz  Fri Apr 21 07:14:10 2017
From: ondracka at ff.cuni.cz (=?utf-8?Q?Lubom=C3=ADr_Ondra=C4=8Dka?=)
Date: Fri, 21 Apr 17 09:14:10 +0200
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Buddhavacanam Does anybody have a pdf of Seyfort Ruegg's article? If so may I get a copy? Mille grazie! Stella Sandahl (ssandahl@sympatico.ca)
In-Reply-To: <7BDB29D4-C32C-451B-A513-35A41A712B2D@mso.umt.edu>
Message-ID: <20170421091410.d5af084890247a7f7df2c915@ff.cuni.cz>

For those interested, here is the Ruegg's article:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0Bxne4hxeyj7RV2ZJTmtmSVVIRkU/view?usp=sharing

Best,
Lubomir


On Fri, 21 Apr 2017 00:13:15 +0000
"Clough, Bradley via INDOLOGY" <indology at list.indology.info> wrote:

> I too am interested in receiving the Ruegg PDF if someone has it!
> 
> Many Thanks!
> Brad
> 
> Dr. Bradley S. Clough
> Global Humanities and Religions
> LA 101
> The University of Montana
> 32 Campus Drive
> Missoula, MT 59812
> 
> bradley.clough at mso.umt.edu<mailto:bradley.clough at mso.umt.edu>
> Phone: 406-243-2837
> Fax: 406-243-4076
> 
> On Apr 20, 2017, at 8:39 AM, Stella Sandahl via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info<mailto:indology at list.indology.info>> wrote:
> 
> 
> On Wed, Apr 19, 2017 at 9:00 AM Eltschinger, Vincent <Vincent.Eltschinger at oeaw.ac.at<mailto:Vincent.Eltschinger at oeaw.ac.at>> wrote:
> Dear colleagues,
> This passage has been the focus of intense discussion for more than one century. As scholars such as Sylvain L?vi, John Brough and Franklin Edgerton have shown, the Chinese parallels are of great relevance, too (most of them are translated in the first pages of Edgerton's BHSG). They clearly testify to the fact that these passages and other relevant passages were interpreted quite differently according to sect-governed sociolinguistic imperatives.
> Here is a short bibliographical list on the subject:
> 
> Brough, John. 1954. The Language of the Buddhist Sanskrit Texts. Bulletin of the School of Oriental and African Studies 16. 351-375.
> Brough, John. 1980. Sak?ya niruttiy?: Cauld kale het. In Bechert, Heinz (ed.), The Language of the Earliest Buddhist Tradition, 35-42. G?ttingen: Vandenhoeck & Ruprecht.
> BHSG/D. Edgerton, Franklin. 1993 [19531]. Buddhist Hybrid Sanskrit Gram?mar and Di?c?tion?ary. Vol. II (Dictionary). Delhi: Mo???tilal Banarsidass.
> L?vi, Sylvain. 1915. Sur la r?citation primitive des textes bouddhiques. Journal Asiatique, mai-juin 1915. 401-447.
> Lin, Li-Kouang. 1949. Introduction au Compendium de la Loi (Dharma-Samuccaya): L?Aide-m?moire de la Vraie Loi (Saddharma-sm?ty-upasth?na-s?tra). Recherches sur un S?tra d?velopp? du Petit V?hicule. Paris: Librairie d?Am?rique et d?Orient Adrien Maisonneuve.
> Norman, KR. 1980. The dialects in which the Buddha preached. In Bechert, Heinz (ed.), The Language of the Earliest Buddhist Tradition, 61-77. G?ttingen: Vandenhoeck & Ruprecht. [Reprint in Norman, K.R. 1991. Collected Papers. Vol. II, 128-147. Oxford: Pali Text Society.]
> Pollock, Sheldon. 2006. The Language of the Gods in the World of Men, Sanskrit, Culture, and Power in Premodern India. Berkeley, Los Angeles, London: University of California Press.
> Seyfort Ruegg, David. 2000. On the Expressions chandaso ?ropema, ?yataka g?tassara, sarabha??a and ?r?a applied to the ?Word of the Buddha? (buddhavacana). In Tsuchida, Ryutaro, Albrecht Wezler (eds.), Har?nandalahar?, Volume in Honour of Professor Minoru Hara on His Seventieth Birthday, 283-306. Reinbek: Dr. Inge Wezler Verlag fur Orientalistische Fachpublikationen.
> 
> With best regards,
> Vincent Eltschinger
> 
> Vincent Eltschinger, korrespondierendes Mitglied der OeAW
> Directeur d'?tudes
> ?cole Pratique des Hautes ?tudes, Section des sciences religieuses
> Patios Saint-Jacques, 4-14 rue Ferrus - 75014 Paris
> vincent.eltschinger at ephe.sorbonne.fr<mailto:vincent.eltschinger at ephe.sorbonne.fr>
> 0033 1 56 61 17 34 / 0033 7 85 86 84 05
> ________________________________
> Von: INDOLOGY [indology-bounces at list.indology.info<mailto:indology-bounces at list.indology.info>]" im Auftrag von "Stella Sandahl via INDOLOGY [indology at list.indology.info<mailto:indology at list.indology.info>]
> Gesendet: Mittwoch, 19. April 2017 13:04
> An: Wujastyk Dominik
> Cc: Indology
> Betreff: Re: [INDOLOGY] Buddhavacanam
> 
> I still think Professor Smith?s interpretation makes sense. nirutti does not refer to any particular language,
> it makes better sense to take sakAya niruttiyA  as "in my own words", i.e. without embroidering on it. The
> Buddha did not want his teaching to be distorted by fanciful interpretations.
> What language the Buddha actually spoke is an entirely different question. Was the Buddha really concerned
> with the linguistic varieties in India?
> The census takers in modern India ask people what language they speak. A villager from Ratnapur (I have
> invented this village name) will say he speaks Ratnapuri. A worker from Hoshiapur will give his language
> as Hoshiapuri.
> Stella Sandahl
> Professor emerita
> University of Toronto
> 
> 
> 
> On Apr 18, 2017, at 11:43 PM, Dominik Wujastyk <wujastyk at gmail.com<mailto:wujastyk at gmail.com>> wrote:
> 
> The Pali doesn't actually say "Buddha's own dialect".  That's the whole point of the problem and why it has been discussed by many scholars.  It says "in his own dialect." This is ambiguous: we don't know whether "his own" (saka) refers to the Buddha or to a person in the audience.   Is the Buddha saying "teach people in my language" or "teach people in their own language?"
> 
> ?
> --
> Professor Dominik Wujastyk<http://ualberta.academia.edu/DominikWujastyk>
> ?,?
> 
> Singhmar Chair in Classical Indian Society and Polity
> ?,?
> 
> Department of History and Classics<http://historyandclassics.ualberta.ca/>
> ?,?
> University of Alberta, Canada
> ?.?
> 
> South Asia at the U of A:
> 
> ?sas.ualberta.ca?<http://sas.ualberta.ca/>
> ??
> 
> 
> On 18 April 2017 at 00:54, alakendu das via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info<mailto:indology at list.indology.info>> wrote:
> <
> 
> Dr.Sandahl,
> I had been curiously following the scholastic deliberations on Buddhabachanam.
> Since long, I had an inner feeling that there is actually a reference where Siddhartha
> Gautama Buddha insisted on using his own language while propagating his teachings. Finally
> I stumbled upon a reference from Chullavagga( a constituent part of Vinaya Pitaka),in course
> of studying a chapter on Pali in a certain book on the History of Sanskrit Literature. I am
> not conversant in Pali, but the qoute in ChullaVagga has Buddha instructing- ANUJANAMI
> VIKHABE SAKAYANIRUTIYA BUDDHABACHANAM PARIYAPUNITUM'(Ref-Chullavagga 5.33.1) which roughly
> translates as - While teaching the views of Buddha , one should use Buddha's own dialect(
> sakaya Nirutya implies own dialect).About Buddha's own dialect, it is well known that hailing
> from Magadha ,BUDDHA spoke Magadhi . There is a further reference ( source unknown)which says-
> SO CHA BHAGABA MAGADHO, SA CHA MAGADHE BHABATTYE, SA CHA BHASHA MAGADHI. Inspite my poor
> knowledge in Pali,I can understand the above qoute as- Buddha was a resident of Magadha and
> his own dialect was Magadhi.
> 
> ALAKENDU DAS.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info<mailto:INDOLOGY at list.indology.info>
> indology-owner at list.indology.info<mailto:indology-owner at list.indology.info> (messages to the list's managing committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info<http://listinfo.indology.info/> (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe)
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info<mailto:INDOLOGY at list.indology.info>
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe)
> 
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe)





From hens.sander at gmail.com  Fri Apr 21 08:54:23 2017
From: hens.sander at gmail.com (sander hens)
Date: Fri, 21 Apr 17 10:54:23 +0200
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Call for papers: IIGRS 9 at Ghent University
Message-ID: <CAPdYbV6yqZjwcYJmHhEsA3HMppgJ=+004bibSvLqEzOdZoPAUQ@mail.gmail.com>

Dear members of the Indology mailing list,

We are pleased to announce that the ninth International Indological
Graduate Research Symposium (IIGRS 9) will take place at Ghent University
on 22nd and 23th of September 2017. We invite all M.A. and PhD students, as
well as early stage researchers who have completed their PhD within the
past five years, to submit their abstracts to iigrsuk at googlemail.com by
June 12. The selection committee will consider all papers dealing with an
Indological subject based on the study of texts in their original language.
Please have a look at the IIGRS website for more information:

 https://iigrs.wordpress.com/

 If you are teaching at an institution, we would be grateful If you could
spread this information among your students.

 For further questions, you can contact us directly at
iigrsuk at googlemail.com

 Yours,

Sander Hens

Heleen De Jonckheere

Agnieszka Rostalska

Marie-H?l?ne Gorisse

-- 
Sander Hens

PhD Candidate
Dpt of Indian Languages and Cultures
Ghent University


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From camillo.formigatti at bodleian.ox.ac.uk  Fri Apr 21 12:29:53 2017
From: camillo.formigatti at bodleian.ox.ac.uk (Camillo Formigatti)
Date: Fri, 21 Apr 17 12:29:53 +0000
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Sanskrit literature in numbers
In-Reply-To: <CAGsvHi_4_4ybAn83qpPcsRNirTC2cRH75_at-_YJg-TW9nhHWg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <0C647B6E904DBB4BAD3A28D522DC73151DA6B9A6@MBX05.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk>

Dear Colleagues,

It seems that my replies have started a discussion in which what I intended to be simply short remarks without any intention of being precise or exhaustive, have been partly misinterpreted. I was simply pointing out my own, little personal experience and random thoughts on this matter.

I will tackle each topic with a separate reply, for the sake of clarity.

??After all, his assertion (given with reference to ?estimates of the number
of South Asian manuscripts?) that ?numbers again are simply telling us
?in an unreliable way?how many books have survived, not how many works
were composed? is unfortunately not quite adequate;
[?]  there is still this
lingering implicit assumption that a manuscript may be equated with a work/book
that needs to be radically discarded.??


I thought that all this was implicit in what I wrote and did not need to be further explained, since I supposed I was writing to an audience of experts. I would be a very poor librarian and cataloguer of manuscripts indeed?not to say textual scholar?if I hadn?t already grasped this simple notion after more than a decade spent working with manuscripts and books at various levels.


??Not only do we all as Sanskrit scholars know that the production of a critical edition
of a single work usually is based on a number of available manuscripts that in fact,
depending on the work to be edited, may greatly vary from just a few to dozens (& more),
but taking just a look at the New Catalogus Catalogorum immediately reveals an
enormous variation regarding the proportion that exists between a given work and
the amount of manuscripts transmitting it.
[?]  as the case may be, crucial textual variants,
insights into the given textual transmission, etc. ??


I fail to see how this is relevant for a count of the works composed. It doesn?t matter how many manuscripts of a given text are extant, nor their condition or philological value, because what counts is the number of works composed, even if lost and known only through indirect transmission. This is precisely one?and I stress only one, lest somebody thinks I am oversimplifying?of the reasons why I said that the numbers of extant books (and I mean books, not only manuscripts, because I was dealing with printed books as well in my article) is not that useful for this type of assessment. I was simply suggesting a bibliographical reference, admittedly in a self-promoting way and albeit not quite relevant, we might argue. Still, I thought it could be a starting point to assess the supposed dimensions of Sanskrit literature vis-?-vis other literatures by using quantitative data at our disposal before applying for a grant to start a research project on the topic.


??On the other hand, huge texts, the more so when provided with a commentary,
cannot be comprised by single manuscripts, even when complete.
Presently engaged in describing a so-called Pa??it Collection
(acquired by the Royal Library/Det Kongelige Bibliotek, Copenhagen, in 1924),
I recall, just to give an example, that each of the 12 books (skandha)
of the Bh?gavatapur??a with ?r?dhara?s commentary Bh?v?rthad?pik?
conveniently amounted to a separate manuscript. ??


Same as above, this argument was implied in what I wrote and I thought it didn?t need to be expressed for this audience. Nevertheless, I would like to point out that given the very nature of South Asian books, which are (more often than not, again I am writing a short reply and I can?t be exhaustive) bundles of loose leaves, we should be more cautious in cases like this one and maybe consider whether these twelve volumes might were conceived as one single, multi-volume manuscript or not. I am not saying that this is the case for these specific set of 12 manuscripts of the Bhagavatapurana?after all, only the cataloguer can decide and I haven?t seen them?, I?m simply saying that obviously we faced similar challenges while cataloguing the Cambridge manuscripts. We learned very soon that things are often more complicated than we could ever imagine. How do we know that such volumes weren?t meant to be one single manuscript? If they were commissioned by one single person and written within a specific, limited timespan, using the same type of paper etc., then why don?t we consider them as one single manuscript? Is it because the hand changes between the volumes? Even in this case, they were still conceived as a single project, and sometimes in long manuscripts we see different scribes at work (the hand changes amid one single page, and I mean precisely page, not folio), and yet we catalogue them as a single manuscript. Is the foliation not continuous? If not, then we might think that these are indeed separate manuscripts. However, in the case of South Asian manuscritps, in my modest opinion the notion of single manuscript is blurred precisely because of the loose nature of the binding. Yet, there could be cases where even if the foliation restarts and the manuscripts are transmitted separately, they were probably conceived to be a single collection (https://cudl.lib.cam.ac.uk/view/MS-ADD-01709/1). Please note the fact that for these three manuscripts, there is a catch-number linking them, and yet we considered them as separate items and catalogued them accordingly. Did we make the right choice? I?m not sure, for in other cases we decided to group into one single manuscript, and thus one entry, manuscripts that somebody more knowledgeable than us, i.e. Cecil Bendall, catalogued as separate manuscripts, precisely because each part contained a different text (https://cudl.lib.cam.ac.uk/view/MS-ADD-01380-01381/1).


??Yet again, a given MS may likewise, easily in the case of stotras, various kinds of
ritual texts (and other textual genres), contain many more than just a single work.??

I?m not sure we want to discuss this matter in a mailing list, because it would raise even more questions than we could easily answer. Again, we discussed similar cases at length in the Cambridge project and we took particular care in our catalogue to represent in a clear, yet precise way even very complex cases of multi-text, composite manuscripts, like this manuscript of the Astasahasrika (https://cudl.lib.cam.ac.uk/view/MS-ADD-01643/1). Please have a look also at this case of a multi-text collection of Avadanas: https://cudl.lib.cam.ac.uk/view/MS-ADD-01615/1, or again at this extreme case: https://cudl.lib.cam.ac.uk/view/MS-OR-02359/1. I will partly deal with this issue and our approach in the article on the history of the Cambridge collections I mentioned some time ago in the list.


??Neither should it be felt as particularly surprising when discovering that
what at some time had been assembled (and put into an envelope), say, by an owner
of a Sanskrit collection as if consisting in a single MS turns out, on closer inspection,
to actually consist in numerous fragments of altogether heterogeneous character
(in terms of textual sources, scribes, material quality, etc.).??

We have dealt with a similar cases too, and I ought to repeat that this too was implicit in my very casual remark in my first e-mail on the topic.


In other words, given also the published version of the hopefully ongoing project of
the New Catalogus Catalogorum has (even with the future conclusion of the letter h)
to be characterized as being, though already advanced, still only a preliminary assessment
of what has survived, it seems quite important, when assessing the amount of
pre-modern works in Sanskrit, to be aware of the fact that the relevant notion
of ?manuscript? itself is considerably complex (on the empirical level of what is
actually found in Sanskrit collections), thus turning the correlation between MSS
and proper works into an highly problematic issue, if taken as a basis for quantitative
estimates of the literary cultures expressed in the medium of that language.

I believe we all agree with this statement and again, I thought all of what I wrote above was implicit in what I wrote in my first, brief reply.

Best wishes,

Camilllo


________________________________

Dr Camillo A. Formigatti
John Clay Sanskrit Librarian

Bodleian Libraries
The Weston Library
Broad Street
Oxford
OX1 3BG

Email: camillo.formigatti at bodleian.ox.ac.uk<mailto:camillo.formigatti at bodleian.ox.ac.uk>
Tel. (office): 01865 (2)77208
www.bodleian.ox.ac.uk<http://www.bodleian.ox.ac.uk/>

From: Hartmut Buescher [mailto:buescherhartmut at gmail.com]
Sent: 20 April 2017 19:46
To: Camillo Formigatti <camillo.formigatti at bodleian.ox.ac.uk>
Cc: Dagmar Wujastyk <d.wujastyk at gmail.com>; indology <INDOLOGY at list.indology.info>
Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] Sanskrit literature in numbers

Some remarks in addition to Camillo?s reflections seem necessary,
since there are further reasons ?to be baffled by the fact that it seems
very difficult to get reliable quantitative data to start with?.
After all, his assertion (given with reference to ?estimates of the number
of South Asian manuscripts?) that ?numbers again are simply telling us
?in an unreliable way?how many books have survived, not how many works
were composed? is unfortunately not quite adequate;
and if rectified by saying at least ?in an extremely unreliable way?, as is unavoidable
to do for someone familiar with collections of Sanskrit manuscripts, there is still this
lingering implicit assumption that a manuscript may be equated with a work/book
that needs to be radically discarded.

Not only do we all as Sanskrit scholars know that the production of a critical edition
of a single work usually is based on a number of available manuscripts that in fact,
depending on the work to be edited, may greatly vary from just a few to dozens (& more),
but taking just a look at the New Catalogus Catalogorum immediately reveals an
enormous variation regarding the proportion that exists between a given work and
the amount of manuscripts transmitting it.
As to the notion of a ?manuscript? hereby, in lucky cases the given MS is complete.
Frequently, however, if not most frequently (another uncertain proportion),
it is fragmentary.

Yet, of course, also fragmentary MSS (be it even one consisting in a single folio or less)
must be principally regarded as being able to provide valid manuscript evidence,
supportive readings and, as the case may be, crucial textual variants,
insights into the given textual transmission, etc.

On the other hand, huge texts, the more so when provided with a commentary,
cannot be comprised by single manuscripts, even when complete.
Presently engaged in describing a so-called Pa??it Collection
(acquired by the Royal Library/Det Kongelige Bibliotek, Copenhagen, in 1924),
I recall, just to give an example, that each of the 12 books (skandha)
of the Bh?gavatapur??a with ?r?dhara?s commentary Bh?v?rthad?pik?
conveniently amounted to a separate manuscript.

Yet again, a given MS may likewise, easily in the case of stotras, various kinds of
ritual texts (and other textual genres), contain many more than just a single work.
Neither should it be felt as particularly surprising when discovering that
what at some time had been assembled (and put into an envelope), say, by an owner
of a Sanskrit collection as if consisting in a single MS turns out, on closer inspection,
to actually consist in numerous fragments of altogether heterogeneous character
(in terms of textual sources, scribes, material quality, etc.).

Furthermore, to address the problem of quantification from yet another perspective,
not all the MSS contained in a given collection (like the mentioned Pa??it Collection)
may a priori be counted as philologically ? implying philology to be a methodologically
strict science untouched by either traditional naiveness or pretentious instances of
post-modern clownery ? valid documents with justified claims of pertinently representing
a given work: the numerous cases of orthographically somewhat uneducated scribes apart,
a not all too great, but an uncertain (if tiny) percentage of MSS simply represents
the work ? throwing tangible light on the sociological aspects of textual transmission ?
consisting in the more or less clumsy writing exercises by pupils (typically found
in the areas of both ?ruti and sm?ti).

In other words, given also the published version of the hopefully ongoing project of
the New Catalogus Catalogorum has (even with the future conclusion of the letter h)
to be characterized as being, though already advanced, still only a preliminary assessment
of what has survived, it seems quite important, when assessing the amount of
pre-modern works in Sanskrit, to be aware of the fact that the relevant notion
of ?manuscript? itself is considerably complex (on the empirical level of what is
actually found in Sanskrit collections), thus turning the correlation between MSS
and proper works into an highly problematic issue, if taken as a basis for quantitative
estimates of the literary cultures expressed in the medium of that language.

Best wishes,

Hartmut

--------------------------------
Hartmut Buescher, PhD,
Research Librarian
The Royal Danish Library, Copenhagen
(Det Kongelige Bibiliotek)
[http://www.kb.dk/en/index.html]





On Thu, Apr 20, 2017 at 12:16 PM, Camillo Formigatti via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info<mailto:indology at list.indology.info>> wrote:
Dear Dagmar,

As to Latin and Greek literature, I believe that choosing a good periodization is difficult, if you want to do it for comparative purposes. Would you consider Byzantine Greek literature or not? If yes, then why not consider Latin literature from late antiquity, medieval times and Renaissance too?  Would it be on linguistic grounds? I think that then you would be forced to compare the periodization let?s say of South Asian or Central Asian history and the history of each language with that of Latin and Greek. Assuming we are talking also of scientific and technical literature, you would also face the issue of assessing the impact of the late diffusion of printing technology in South Asia and on the other hand how this phenomenon might have affected a possible increase in the composition of works in cultures were printing technology was employed early on, such as China and Japan, due to economic reasons. After all, printers and publishing houses wanted to sell more and more books, and in order to do it they had to publish something.

In one of my articles I briefly touched upon the numbers of Latin, Greek, and vernacular languages manuscripts from the 6th to the 15th century as compared to various estimates of the number of South Asian manuscripts, but again, these numbers again are simply telling us?in an unreliable way?how many books have survived, not how many works were composed.

I apologize for the long and unstructured reply, but lately I?ve been fascinated by questions like the one you asked, only to be baffled by the fact that it seems very difficult to get reliable quantitative data to start with.

Best wishes,

Camillo

________________________________

Dr Camillo A. Formigatti
John Clay Sanskrit Librarian

Bodleian Libraries
The Weston Library
Broad Street
Oxford
OX1 3BG

Email: camillo.formigatti at bodleian.ox.ac.uk<mailto:camillo.formigatti at bodleian.ox.ac.uk>
Tel. (office): 01865 (2)77208
www.bodleian.ox.ac.uk<http://www.bodleian.ox.ac.uk/>

From: Dagmar Wujastyk [mailto:d.wujastyk at gmail.com<mailto:d.wujastyk at gmail.com>]
Sent: 19 April 2017 17:32
To: Camillo Formigatti <camillo.formigatti at bodleian.ox.ac.uk<mailto:camillo.formigatti at bodleian.ox.ac.uk>>
Cc: indology <INDOLOGY at list.indology.info<mailto:INDOLOGY at list.indology.info>>
Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] Sanskrit literature in numbers

Dear Camillo,

I must admit I am a bit uncertain where to draw the line. Trying to quantify Latin literature, I think I would want total numbers that could then be split up in classical and then everything later? I am not sure what the cut off date would be.

Best, Dagmar



On 19 April 2017 at 10:19, Camillo Formigatti <camillo.formigatti at bodleian.ox.ac.uk<mailto:camillo.formigatti at bodleian.ox.ac.uk>> wrote:
Dear Dagmar,

This is a very interesting question indeed. May I add two other questions to it? Would you like to know the numbers of extant works only or the number of works in general, even if lost? Also, when you write Latin language, for instance, do you mean only classical Latin (whatever this might mean) or every work that has been written in Latin until today (and I?m not thinking of today?s Latin used in the Vatican, I was rather thinking of authors like the Italian poet Giovanni Pascoli (1855 ?1912), who wrote poems in Latin too)?

Best wishes,

Camillo


________________________________

Dr Camillo A. Formigatti
John Clay Sanskrit Librarian

Bodleian Libraries
The Weston Library
Broad Street
Oxford
OX1 3BG

Email: camillo.formigatti at bodleian.ox.ac.uk<mailto:camillo.formigatti at bodleian.ox.ac.uk>
Tel. (office): 01865<tel:01%20865> (2)77208
www.bodleian.ox.ac.uk<http://www.bodleian.ox.ac.uk/>

From: Dagmar Wujastyk [mailto:d.wujastyk at gmail.com<mailto:d.wujastyk at gmail.com>]
Sent: 19 April 2017 16:53
To: indology <INDOLOGY at list.indology.info<mailto:INDOLOGY at list.indology.info>>
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Sanskrit literature in numbers

Dear colleagues,

Might anyone be able to point me to a publication/data on the relative quantities of Sanskrit works and other pre-modern works in languages such as Latin, Chinese, Tamil, Arabic or Persian?

We all know that there is a very large body of Sanskrit literature, but how does the number of Sanskrit works compare to works written in other languages? My sense has always been that Sanskrit literature is particularly large, but perhaps this is not substantiated by data?

Best wishes,
Dagmar Wujastyk


_______________________________________________
INDOLOGY mailing list
INDOLOGY at list.indology.info<mailto:INDOLOGY at list.indology.info>
indology-owner at list.indology.info<mailto:indology-owner at list.indology.info> (messages to the list's managing committee)
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From mmdesh at umich.edu  Fri Apr 21 14:51:15 2017
From: mmdesh at umich.edu (Madhav Deshpande)
Date: Fri, 21 Apr 17 10:51:15 -0400
Subject: [INDOLOGY] My retirement
Message-ID: <CAB3-dzdoVQ2vMVnyug7=XrWL+gb=RPjZub8FVZJV19JKT56jDw@mail.gmail.com>

Dear Colleagues,

     Just to keep you informed, I am retiring from the University of
Michigan by the end of this month, after teaching for 45 years.  My wife,
Shubhangi, and I will migrate to California, in the next few months, to be
closer to our daughters and their families.  For the time being, I will
keep the same email address, but the physical mailing address will change
once we actually migrate to California.

Madhav Deshpande
Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA


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From nagarajpaturi at gmail.com  Fri Apr 21 15:00:14 2017
From: nagarajpaturi at gmail.com (Nagaraj Paturi)
Date: Fri, 21 Apr 17 20:30:14 +0530
Subject: =?utf-8?B?UmU6IFtJTkRPTE9HWV0ge+CkreCkvuCksOCkpOClgOCkr+CkteCkv+CkpuCljeCkteCkpOCljeCkquCksOCkv+Ckt+CkpOCljX0gTXkgcmV0aXJlbWVudA==?=
In-Reply-To: <CAB3-dzdoVQ2vMVnyug7=XrWL+gb=RPjZub8FVZJV19JKT56jDw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAJGj9eYBZrQLBTHTSW89_yedZW0p-4YbhygqPFdDyiNFWmm9aA@mail.gmail.com>

An ever active guru like you has no retirement. This is just a leaving one
of the many platforms of your great perennial adhyayana- adhyaapana.

Getting out of systems is a blessing in disguise.

Wish you a very happy and pleasant out of university life.




On Fri, Apr 21, 2017 at 8:21 PM, Madhav Deshpande <mmdesh at umich.edu> wrote:

> Dear Colleagues,
>
>      Just to keep you informed, I am retiring from the University of
> Michigan by the end of this month, after teaching for 45 years.  My wife,
> Shubhangi, and I will migrate to California, in the next few months, to be
> closer to our daughters and their families.  For the time being, I will
> keep the same email address, but the physical mailing address will change
> once we actually migrate to California.
>
> Madhav Deshpande
> Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "???????????????????" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
> email to bvparishat+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com.
> To post to this group, send email to bvparishat at googlegroups.com.
> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>



-- 
Nagaraj Paturi

Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.

Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies

FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of  Liberal Education,

(Pune, Maharashtra, INDIA )


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From Bradley.Clough at mso.umt.edu  Sat Apr 22 01:49:14 2017
From: Bradley.Clough at mso.umt.edu (Clough, Bradley)
Date: Sat, 22 Apr 17 01:49:14 +0000
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Buddhavacanam Does anybody have a pdf of Seyfort Ruegg's article? If so may I get a copy? Mille grazie! Stella Sandahl (ssandahl@sympatico.ca)
In-Reply-To: <20170421091410.d5af084890247a7f7df2c915@ff.cuni.cz>
Message-ID: <2E203C1B-B116-4011-B652-D45F72DB3D09@mso.umt.edu>

Dear Lubomir,

Many thanks for your assistance!

Best Wishes,
Brad




On Apr 21, 2017, at 1:14 AM, Lubom?r Ondra?ka <ondracka at ff.cuni.cz> wrote:

> For those interested, here is the Ruegg's article:
> https://drive.google.com/file/d/0Bxne4hxeyj7RV2ZJTmtmSVVIRkU/view?usp=sharing
> 
> Best,
> Lubomir
> 
> 
> On Fri, 21 Apr 2017 00:13:15 +0000
> "Clough, Bradley via INDOLOGY" <indology at list.indology.info> wrote:
> 
>> I too am interested in receiving the Ruegg PDF if someone has it!
>> 
>> Many Thanks!
>> Brad
>> 
>> Dr. Bradley S. Clough
>> Global Humanities and Religions
>> LA 101
>> The University of Montana
>> 32 Campus Drive
>> Missoula, MT 59812
>> 
>> bradley.clough at mso.umt.edu<mailto:bradley.clough at mso.umt.edu>
>> Phone: 406-243-2837
>> Fax: 406-243-4076
>> 
>> On Apr 20, 2017, at 8:39 AM, Stella Sandahl via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info<mailto:indology at list.indology.info>> wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> On Wed, Apr 19, 2017 at 9:00 AM Eltschinger, Vincent <Vincent.Eltschinger at oeaw.ac.at<mailto:Vincent.Eltschinger at oeaw.ac.at>> wrote:
>> Dear colleagues,
>> This passage has been the focus of intense discussion for more than one century. As scholars such as Sylvain L?vi, John Brough and Franklin Edgerton have shown, the Chinese parallels are of great relevance, too (most of them are translated in the first pages of Edgerton's BHSG). They clearly testify to the fact that these passages and other relevant passages were interpreted quite differently according to sect-governed sociolinguistic imperatives.
>> Here is a short bibliographical list on the subject:
>> 
>> Brough, John. 1954. The Language of the Buddhist Sanskrit Texts. Bulletin of the School of Oriental and African Studies 16. 351-375.
>> Brough, John. 1980. Sak?ya niruttiy?: Cauld kale het. In Bechert, Heinz (ed.), The Language of the Earliest Buddhist Tradition, 35-42. G?ttingen: Vandenhoeck & Ruprecht.
>> BHSG/D. Edgerton, Franklin. 1993 [19531]. Buddhist Hybrid Sanskrit Gram?mar and Di?c?tion?ary. Vol. II (Dictionary). Delhi: Mo???tilal Banarsidass.
>> L?vi, Sylvain. 1915. Sur la r?citation primitive des textes bouddhiques. Journal Asiatique, mai-juin 1915. 401-447.
>> Lin, Li-Kouang. 1949. Introduction au Compendium de la Loi (Dharma-Samuccaya): L?Aide-m?moire de la Vraie Loi (Saddharma-sm?ty-upasth?na-s?tra). Recherches sur un S?tra d?velopp? du Petit V?hicule. Paris: Librairie d?Am?rique et d?Orient Adrien Maisonneuve.
>> Norman, KR. 1980. The dialects in which the Buddha preached. In Bechert, Heinz (ed.), The Language of the Earliest Buddhist Tradition, 61-77. G?ttingen: Vandenhoeck & Ruprecht. [Reprint in Norman, K.R. 1991. Collected Papers. Vol. II, 128-147. Oxford: Pali Text Society.]
>> Pollock, Sheldon. 2006. The Language of the Gods in the World of Men, Sanskrit, Culture, and Power in Premodern India. Berkeley, Los Angeles, London: University of California Press.
>> Seyfort Ruegg, David. 2000. On the Expressions chandaso ?ropema, ?yataka g?tassara, sarabha??a and ?r?a applied to the ?Word of the Buddha? (buddhavacana). In Tsuchida, Ryutaro, Albrecht Wezler (eds.), Har?nandalahar?, Volume in Honour of Professor Minoru Hara on His Seventieth Birthday, 283-306. Reinbek: Dr. Inge Wezler Verlag fur Orientalistische Fachpublikationen.
>> 
>> With best regards,
>> Vincent Eltschinger
>> 
>> Vincent Eltschinger, korrespondierendes Mitglied der OeAW
>> Directeur d'?tudes
>> ?cole Pratique des Hautes ?tudes, Section des sciences religieuses
>> Patios Saint-Jacques, 4-14 rue Ferrus - 75014 Paris
>> vincent.eltschinger at ephe.sorbonne.fr<mailto:vincent.eltschinger at ephe.sorbonne.fr>
>> 0033 1 56 61 17 34 / 0033 7 85 86 84 05
>> ________________________________
>> Von: INDOLOGY [indology-bounces at list.indology.info<mailto:indology-bounces at list.indology.info>]" im Auftrag von "Stella Sandahl via INDOLOGY [indology at list.indology.info<mailto:indology at list.indology.info>]
>> Gesendet: Mittwoch, 19. April 2017 13:04
>> An: Wujastyk Dominik
>> Cc: Indology
>> Betreff: Re: [INDOLOGY] Buddhavacanam
>> 
>> I still think Professor Smith?s interpretation makes sense. nirutti does not refer to any particular language,
>> it makes better sense to take sakAya niruttiyA  as "in my own words", i.e. without embroidering on it. The
>> Buddha did not want his teaching to be distorted by fanciful interpretations.
>> What language the Buddha actually spoke is an entirely different question. Was the Buddha really concerned
>> with the linguistic varieties in India?
>> The census takers in modern India ask people what language they speak. A villager from Ratnapur (I have
>> invented this village name) will say he speaks Ratnapuri. A worker from Hoshiapur will give his language
>> as Hoshiapuri.
>> Stella Sandahl
>> Professor emerita
>> University of Toronto
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On Apr 18, 2017, at 11:43 PM, Dominik Wujastyk <wujastyk at gmail.com<mailto:wujastyk at gmail.com>> wrote:
>> 
>> The Pali doesn't actually say "Buddha's own dialect".  That's the whole point of the problem and why it has been discussed by many scholars.  It says "in his own dialect." This is ambiguous: we don't know whether "his own" (saka) refers to the Buddha or to a person in the audience.   Is the Buddha saying "teach people in my language" or "teach people in their own language?"
>> 
>> ?
>> --
>> Professor Dominik Wujastyk<http://ualberta.academia.edu/DominikWujastyk>
>> ?,?
>> 
>> Singhmar Chair in Classical Indian Society and Polity
>> ?,?
>> 
>> Department of History and Classics<http://historyandclassics.ualberta.ca/>
>> ?,?
>> University of Alberta, Canada
>> ?.?
>> 
>> South Asia at the U of A:
>> 
>> ?sas.ualberta.ca?<http://sas.ualberta.ca/>
>> ??
>> 
>> 
>> On 18 April 2017 at 00:54, alakendu das via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info<mailto:indology at list.indology.info>> wrote:
>> <
>> 
>> Dr.Sandahl,
>> I had been curiously following the scholastic deliberations on Buddhabachanam.
>> Since long, I had an inner feeling that there is actually a reference where Siddhartha
>> Gautama Buddha insisted on using his own language while propagating his teachings. Finally
>> I stumbled upon a reference from Chullavagga( a constituent part of Vinaya Pitaka),in course
>> of studying a chapter on Pali in a certain book on the History of Sanskrit Literature. I am
>> not conversant in Pali, but the qoute in ChullaVagga has Buddha instructing- ANUJANAMI
>> VIKHABE SAKAYANIRUTIYA BUDDHABACHANAM PARIYAPUNITUM'(Ref-Chullavagga 5.33.1) which roughly
>> translates as - While teaching the views of Buddha , one should use Buddha's own dialect(
>> sakaya Nirutya implies own dialect).About Buddha's own dialect, it is well known that hailing
>> from Magadha ,BUDDHA spoke Magadhi . There is a further reference ( source unknown)which says-
>> SO CHA BHAGABA MAGADHO, SA CHA MAGADHE BHABATTYE, SA CHA BHASHA MAGADHI. Inspite my poor
>> knowledge in Pali,I can understand the above qoute as- Buddha was a resident of Magadha and
>> his own dialect was Magadhi.
>> 
>> ALAKENDU DAS.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info<mailto:INDOLOGY at list.indology.info>
>> indology-owner at list.indology.info<mailto:indology-owner at list.indology.info> (messages to the list's managing committee)
>> http://listinfo.indology.info<http://listinfo.indology.info/> (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe)
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info<mailto:INDOLOGY at list.indology.info>
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>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe)
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
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From wujastyk at gmail.com  Sat Apr 22 04:19:09 2017
From: wujastyk at gmail.com (Dominik Wujastyk)
Date: Fri, 21 Apr 17 22:19:09 -0600
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Buddhavacanam
In-Reply-To: <CAGDOqfoLj5z+Fp2ZQcOALuV1ty-2WwSH3sA0wVzDzL7COFW9Cg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAKdt-CfHPHfcSi7xL8PCWDD3-zAWFbACTX8dD=dw4in274YDzA@mail.gmail.com>

What a great article.  Thank you!

?
--
Professor Dominik Wujastyk <http://ualberta.academia.edu/DominikWujastyk>
?,?

Singhmar Chair in Classical Indian Society and Polity
?,?

Department of History and Classics <http://historyandclassics.ualberta.ca/>
?,?
University of Alberta, Canada
?.?

South Asia at the U of A:

?sas.ualberta.ca?
??


On 20 April 2017 at 20:01, Antonio Ferreira-Jardim via INDOLOGY <
indology at list.indology.info> wrote:

> Dear list,
>
> Just further on this discussion, I would recommend reading the recent
> works of Bryan Levman - particularly his recent article: "Sak?ya
> niruttiy? Revisited" in the BEI. A scanned copy is available here:
> http://www.sareligionuoft.ca/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/
> Levman-sak%C4%81ya-niruttiy%C4%81.pdf
>
> A fairly recent bibliography of Dr Levman's works is available here:
> http://www.sareligionuoft.ca/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/
> Levman-bibliography.pdf
> Links to many of his articles is available here:
> http://www.sareligionuoft.ca/people/alumni-and-alumnae/
> bryan-levman/articles-and-chapters-bryan-levman/
>
> Kind regards,
> Antonio Ferreira-Jardim
> UQ
>
>
> On Wed, Apr 19, 2017 at 11:00 PM, Eltschinger, Vincent via INDOLOGY
> <indology at list.indology.info> wrote:
> > Dear colleagues,
> > This passage has been the focus of intense discussion for more than one
> > century. As scholars such as Sylvain L?vi, John Brough and Franklin
> Edgerton
> > have shown, the Chinese parallels are of great relevance, too (most of
> them
> > are translated in the first pages of Edgerton's BHSG). They clearly
> testify
> > to the fact that these passages and other relevant passages were
> interpreted
> > quite differently according to sect-governed sociolinguistic imperatives.
> > Here is a short bibliographical list on the subject:
> >
> > Brough, John. 1954. The Language of the Buddhist Sanskrit Texts.
> Bulletin of
> > the School of Oriental and African Studies 16. 351-375.
> >
> > Brough, John. 1980. Sak?ya niruttiy?: Cauld kale het. In Bechert, Heinz
> > (ed.), The Language of the Earliest Buddhist Tradition, 35-42. G?ttingen:
> > Vandenhoeck & Ruprecht.
> >
> > BHSG/D. Edgerton, Franklin. 1993 [19531]. Buddhist Hybrid Sanskrit
> Gram?mar
> > and Di?c?tion?ary. Vol. II (Dictionary). Delhi: Mo???tilal Banarsidass.
> >
> > L?vi, Sylvain. 1915. Sur la r?citation primitive des textes bouddhiques.
> > Journal Asiatique, mai-juin 1915. 401-447.
> >
> > Lin, Li-Kouang. 1949. Introduction au Compendium de la Loi
> > (Dharma-Samuccaya): L?Aide-m?moire de la Vraie Loi
> > (Saddharma-sm?ty-upasth?na-s?tra). Recherches sur un S?tra d?velopp? du
> > Petit V?hicule. Paris: Librairie d?Am?rique et d?Orient Adrien
> Maisonneuve.
> >
> > Norman, KR. 1980. The dialects in which the Buddha preached. In Bechert,
> > Heinz (ed.), The Language of the Earliest Buddhist Tradition, 61-77.
> > G?ttingen: Vandenhoeck & Ruprecht. [Reprint in Norman, K.R. 1991.
> Collected
> > Papers. Vol. II, 128-147. Oxford: Pali Text Society.]
> >
> > Pollock, Sheldon. 2006. The Language of the Gods in the World of Men,
> > Sanskrit, Culture, and Power in Premodern India. Berkeley, Los Angeles,
> > London: University of California Press.
> >
> > Seyfort Ruegg, David. 2000. On the Expressions chandaso ?ropema, ?yataka
> > g?tassara, sarabha??a and ?r?a applied to the ?Word of the Buddha?
> > (buddhavacana). In Tsuchida, Ryutaro, Albrecht Wezler (eds.),
> > Har?nandalahar?, Volume in Honour of Professor Minoru Hara on His
> Seventieth
> > Birthday, 283-306. Reinbek: Dr. Inge Wezler Verlag fur Orientalistische
> > Fachpublikationen.
> >
> >
> > With best regards,
> > Vincent Eltschinger
> >
> > Vincent Eltschinger, korrespondierendes Mitglied der OeAW
> > Directeur d'?tudes
> > ?cole Pratique des Hautes ?tudes, Section des sciences religieuses
> > Patios Saint-Jacques, 4-14 rue Ferrus - 75014 Paris
> > vincent.eltschinger at ephe.sorbonne.fr
> > 0033 1 56 61 17 34 / 0033 7 85 86 84 05
> > ________________________________
> > Von: INDOLOGY [indology-bounces at list.indology.info]" im Auftrag von
> "Stella
> > Sandahl via INDOLOGY [indology at list.indology.info]
> > Gesendet: Mittwoch, 19. April 2017 13:04
> > An: Wujastyk Dominik
> > Cc: Indology
> > Betreff: Re: [INDOLOGY] Buddhavacanam
> >
> > I still think Professor Smith?s interpretation makes sense. nirutti does
> not
> > refer to any particular language,
> > it makes better sense to take sakAya niruttiyA  as "in my own words",
> i.e.
> > without embroidering on it. The
> > Buddha did not want his teaching to be distorted by fanciful
> > interpretations.
> > What language the Buddha actually spoke is an entirely different
> question.
> > Was the Buddha really concerned
> > with the linguistic varieties in India?
> > The census takers in modern India ask people what language they speak. A
> > villager from Ratnapur (I have
> > invented this village name) will say he speaks Ratnapuri. A worker from
> > Hoshiapur will give his language
> > as Hoshiapuri.
> > Stella Sandahl
> > Professor emerita
> > University of Toronto
> >
> >
> >
> > On Apr 18, 2017, at 11:43 PM, Dominik Wujastyk <wujastyk at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >
> > The Pali doesn't actually say "Buddha's own dialect".  That's the whole
> > point of the problem and why it has been discussed by many scholars.  It
> > says "in his own dialect." This is ambiguous: we don't know whether "his
> > own" (saka) refers to the Buddha or to a person in the audience.   Is the
> > Buddha saying "teach people in my language" or "teach people in their own
> > language?"
> >
> > --
> > Professor Dominik Wujastyk
> > ,
> >
> > Singhmar Chair in Classical Indian Society and Polity
> > ,
> >
> > Department of History and Classics
> > ,
> > University of Alberta, Canada
> > .
> >
> > South Asia at the U of A:
> >
> > sas.ualberta.ca
> >
> >
> > On 18 April 2017 at 00:54, alakendu das via INDOLOGY
> > <indology at list.indology.info> wrote:
> >>
> >> <
> >>
> >> Dr.Sandahl,
> >> I had been curiously following the scholastic deliberations on
> >> Buddhabachanam.
> >> Since long, I had an inner feeling that there is actually a reference
> >> where Siddhartha
> >> Gautama Buddha insisted on using his own language while propagating his
> >> teachings. Finally
> >> I stumbled upon a reference from Chullavagga( a constituent part of
> Vinaya
> >> Pitaka),in course
> >> of studying a chapter on Pali in a certain book on the History of
> Sanskrit
> >> Literature. I am
> >> not conversant in Pali, but the qoute in ChullaVagga has Buddha
> >> instructing- ANUJANAMI
> >> VIKHABE SAKAYANIRUTIYA BUDDHABACHANAM PARIYAPUNITUM'(Ref-Chullavagga
> >> 5.33.1) which roughly
> >> translates as - While teaching the views of Buddha , one should use
> >> Buddha's own dialect(
> >> sakaya Nirutya implies own dialect).About Buddha's own dialect, it is
> well
> >> known that hailing
> >> from Magadha ,BUDDHA spoke Magadhi . There is a further reference (
> source
> >> unknown)which says-
> >> SO CHA BHAGABA MAGADHO, SA CHA MAGADHE BHABATTYE, SA CHA BHASHA MAGADHI.
> >> Inspite my poor
> >> knowledge in Pali,I can understand the above qoute as- Buddha was a
> >> resident of Magadha and
> >> his own dialect was Magadhi.
> >>
> >> ALAKENDU DAS.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> INDOLOGY mailing list
> >> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> >> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
> >> committee)
> >> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options
> or
> >> unsubscribe)
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > INDOLOGY mailing list
> > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
> > committee)
> > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
> > unsubscribe)
>
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
> committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
> unsubscribe)
>


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From martingansten at gmail.com  Sun Apr 23 05:34:08 2017
From: martingansten at gmail.com (Martin Gansten)
Date: Sun, 23 Apr 17 07:34:08 +0200
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Female name Bhaayi?
Message-ID: <d4cb6839-02a3-89ee-17c9-390de773fe11@gmail.com>

According to David Pingree (CESS A5: 335), the astrological author 
Y?davas?ri (early 17th century, Gujarat?) lived in a place called V??. 
In support, Pingree quotes the author's /T?jikayogasudh?nidhi/ (16.27):

?r?vatsasa?j??d dvijapu?gav?dya? ?r?v??n?mni supure ca s?dhv? |
?r?y?davena vyarac?ha tena sudh?nidhis t?jikayogap?rva? ||

This is neither metrically nor syntactically satisfactory. On examining 
a manuscript of the text, I found that it read:

?r?vatsasa?j??d dvijapu?gav?d ya? ?r?bh?yin?mn? su?uve ca s?dhv? |
?r?y?davena vyarac?ha tena sudh?nidhis t?jikayogap?rva? ||

Y?davas?ri thus appears to give his mother's name as /?r?bh?yi/. I have 
not come across this name before -- can anyone confirm that it exists?

Thanks in advance,
Martin Gansten



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From Greg.Bailey at latrobe.edu.au  Sun Apr 23 06:48:19 2017
From: Greg.Bailey at latrobe.edu.au (Greg Bailey)
Date: Sun, 23 Apr 17 06:48:19 +0000
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Female name Bhaayi?
In-Reply-To: <d4cb6839-02a3-89ee-17c9-390de773fe11@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <D5228B3B.2A6EB%greg.bailey@latrobe.edu.au>

Ok. Rye.

Let's see how it goes.

Cheers,

Greg

From: INDOLOGY <indology-bounces at list.indology.info<mailto:indology-bounces at list.indology.info>> on behalf of Martin Gansten via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info<mailto:indology at list.indology.info>>
Reply-To: Martin Gansten <martingansten at gmail.com<mailto:martingansten at gmail.com>>
Date: Sunday, 23 April 2017 3:34 PM
To: "indology at list.indology.info<mailto:indology at list.indology.info>" <indology at list.indology.info<mailto:indology at list.indology.info>>
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Female name Bhaayi?

According to David Pingree (CESS A5: 335), the astrological author Y?davas?ri (early 17th century, Gujarat?) lived in a place called V??. In support, Pingree quotes the author's T?jikayogasudh?nidhi (16.27):

?r?vatsasa?j??d dvijapu?gav?dya? ?r?v??n?mni supure ca s?dhv? |
?r?y?davena vyarac?ha tena sudh?nidhis t?jikayogap?rva? ||

This is neither metrically nor syntactically satisfactory. On examining a manuscript of the text, I found that it read:

?r?vatsasa?j??d dvijapu?gav?d ya? ?r?bh?yin?mn? su?uve ca s?dhv? |
?r?y?davena vyarac?ha tena sudh?nidhis t?jikayogap?rva? ||

Y?davas?ri thus appears to give his mother's name as ?r?bh?yi. I have not come across this name before -- can anyone confirm that it exists?

Thanks in advance,
Martin Gansten



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From mkapstei at uchicago.edu  Sun Apr 23 07:17:39 2017
From: mkapstei at uchicago.edu (Matthew Kapstein)
Date: Sun, 23 Apr 17 07:17:39 +0000
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Female name Bhaayi?
In-Reply-To: <d4cb6839-02a3-89ee-17c9-390de773fe11@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <82C3E42590D939418C74DD76B97DDED047C28FA4@xm-mbx-06-prod>

Hello Martin,

Given the tremendous diversity of vernacular names in India,
I am not sure that one can ever say a name "doesn't exist"!

I suppose that Bh?y?, which I have never seen either, might have been a vernacular version of
Bh?gin?,for what it's worth.

best,

Matthew Kapstein
Directeur d'?tudes,
Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes

Numata Visiting Professor of Buddhist Studies,
The University of Chicago

________________________________________
From: INDOLOGY [indology-bounces at list.indology.info] on behalf of Martin Gansten via INDOLOGY [indology at list.indology.info]
Sent: Sunday, April 23, 2017 12:34 AM
To: indology at list.indology.info
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Female name Bhaayi?

According to David Pingree (CESS A5: 335), the astrological author Y?davas?ri (early 17th century, Gujarat?) lived in a place called V??. In support, Pingree quotes the author's T?jikayogasudh?nidhi (16.27):

?r?vatsasa?j??d dvijapu?gav?dya? ?r?v??n?mni supure ca s?dhv? |
?r?y?davena vyarac?ha tena sudh?nidhis t?jikayogap?rva? ||

This is neither metrically nor syntactically satisfactory. On examining a manuscript of the text, I found that it read:

?r?vatsasa?j??d dvijapu?gav?d ya? ?r?bh?yin?mn? su?uve ca s?dhv? |
?r?y?davena vyarac?ha tena sudh?nidhis t?jikayogap?rva? ||

Y?davas?ri thus appears to give his mother's name as ?r?bh?yi. I have not come across this name before -- can anyone confirm that it exists?

Thanks in advance,
Martin Gansten





From Greg.Bailey at latrobe.edu.au  Sun Apr 23 08:24:19 2017
From: Greg.Bailey at latrobe.edu.au (Greg Bailey)
Date: Sun, 23 Apr 17 08:24:19 +0000
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Female name Bhaayi?
In-Reply-To: <d4cb6839-02a3-89ee-17c9-390de773fe11@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <D522A1B3.2A6F3%greg.bailey@latrobe.edu.au>

Dear Lost,

Apologies for sending a personal message.

Cheers,

Greg Bailey

From: INDOLOGY <indology-bounces at list.indology.info<mailto:indology-bounces at list.indology.info>> on behalf of Martin Gansten via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info<mailto:indology at list.indology.info>>
Reply-To: Martin Gansten <martingansten at gmail.com<mailto:martingansten at gmail.com>>
Date: Sunday, 23 April 2017 3:34 PM
To: "indology at list.indology.info<mailto:indology at list.indology.info>" <indology at list.indology.info<mailto:indology at list.indology.info>>
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Female name Bhaayi?

According to David Pingree (CESS A5: 335), the astrological author Y?davas?ri (early 17th century, Gujarat?) lived in a place called V??. In support, Pingree quotes the author's T?jikayogasudh?nidhi (16.27):

?r?vatsasa?j??d dvijapu?gav?dya? ?r?v??n?mni supure ca s?dhv? |
?r?y?davena vyarac?ha tena sudh?nidhis t?jikayogap?rva? ||

This is neither metrically nor syntactically satisfactory. On examining a manuscript of the text, I found that it read:

?r?vatsasa?j??d dvijapu?gav?d ya? ?r?bh?yin?mn? su?uve ca s?dhv? |
?r?y?davena vyarac?ha tena sudh?nidhis t?jikayogap?rva? ||

Y?davas?ri thus appears to give his mother's name as ?r?bh?yi. I have not come across this name before -- can anyone confirm that it exists?

Thanks in advance,
Martin Gansten



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From martingansten at gmail.com  Sun Apr 23 08:35:57 2017
From: martingansten at gmail.com (Martin Gansten)
Date: Sun, 23 Apr 17 10:35:57 +0200
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Female name Bhaayi?
In-Reply-To: <82C3E42590D939418C74DD76B97DDED047C28FA4@xm-mbx-06-prod>
Message-ID: <380fbbf2-8f42-bdb7-eb90-34c4bf288075@gmail.com>

Thanks for the suggestion, Matthew. I agree about the problems inherent 
in establishing the non-existence of a name (or anything else, for that 
matter), but what I was hoping for was something a little more robust, 
such as someone having actually seen the name Bh?yi (short -i in this 
instance) in a text, or heard it in real life. :-)

Martin


Den 2017-04-23 kl. 09:17, skrev Matthew Kapstein:
> Hello Martin,
>
> Given the tremendous diversity of vernacular names in India,
> I am not sure that one can ever say a name "doesn't exist"!
>
> I suppose that Bh?y?, which I have never seen either, might have been a vernacular version of
> Bh?gin?,for what it's worth.







From nagarajpaturi at gmail.com  Sun Apr 23 08:37:51 2017
From: nagarajpaturi at gmail.com (Nagaraj Paturi)
Date: Sun, 23 Apr 17 14:07:51 +0530
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Female name Bhaayi?
In-Reply-To: <d4cb6839-02a3-89ee-17c9-390de773fe11@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAJGj9eZpTHE3OPe=+nDkR6i4UQ4AA--n7mmd130VEMmLOM1o-A@mail.gmail.com>

I am sure, most of you must be aware of the female name ending b?? /b?y?/
b?y /b? found in many contemporary northern particularly north-western
languages.

Pingree's version is possibly b?? >v??, such a phonetic change b<>v being
quite common many Indian languages.

The bh?? version could possibly be a hyperstandardization or scribal error.


On Sun, Apr 23, 2017 at 11:04 AM, Martin Gansten via INDOLOGY <
indology at list.indology.info> wrote:

> According to David Pingree (CESS A5: 335), the astrological author
> Y?davas?ri (early 17th century, Gujarat?) lived in a place called V??. In
> support, Pingree quotes the author's *T?jikayogasudh?nidhi* (16.27):
>
> ?r?vatsasa?j??d dvijapu?gav?dya? ?r?v??n?mni supure ca s?dhv? |
> ?r?y?davena vyarac?ha tena sudh?nidhis t?jikayogap?rva? ||
>
> This is neither metrically nor syntactically satisfactory. On examining a
> manuscript of the text, I found that it read:
>
> ?r?vatsasa?j??d dvijapu?gav?d ya? ?r?bh?yin?mn? su?uve ca s?dhv? |
> ?r?y?davena vyarac?ha tena sudh?nidhis t?jikayogap?rva? ||
>
> Y?davas?ri thus appears to give his mother's name as *?r?bh?yi*. I have
> not come across this name before -- can anyone confirm that it exists?
>
> Thanks in advance,
> Martin Gansten
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
> committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
> unsubscribe)
>



-- 
Nagaraj Paturi

Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.

Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies

FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of  Liberal Education,

(Pune, Maharashtra, INDIA )


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From nagarajpaturi at gmail.com  Sun Apr 23 08:41:25 2017
From: nagarajpaturi at gmail.com (Nagaraj Paturi)
Date: Sun, 23 Apr 17 14:11:25 +0530
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Female name Bhaayi?
In-Reply-To: <CAJGj9eZpTHE3OPe=+nDkR6i4UQ4AA--n7mmd130VEMmLOM1o-A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAJGj9eYCgo35rZVL=DYpKCVfYzYuVWYT_AtG=fwKND8rtcaBcA@mail.gmail.com>

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kasturba_Gandhi

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Savitribai_Phule

On Sun, Apr 23, 2017 at 2:07 PM, Nagaraj Paturi <nagarajpaturi at gmail.com>
wrote:

> I am sure, most of you must be aware of the female name ending b?? /b?y?/
> b?y /b? found in many contemporary northern particularly north-western
> languages.
>
> Pingree's version is possibly b?? >v??, such a phonetic change b<>v being
> quite common many Indian languages.
>
> The bh?? version could possibly be a hyperstandardization or scribal
> error.
>
> On Sun, Apr 23, 2017 at 11:04 AM, Martin Gansten via INDOLOGY <
> indology at list.indology.info> wrote:
>
>> According to David Pingree (CESS A5: 335), the astrological author
>> Y?davas?ri (early 17th century, Gujarat?) lived in a place called V??. In
>> support, Pingree quotes the author's *T?jikayogasudh?nidhi* (16.27):
>>
>> ?r?vatsasa?j??d dvijapu?gav?dya? ?r?v??n?mni supure ca s?dhv? |
>> ?r?y?davena vyarac?ha tena sudh?nidhis t?jikayogap?rva? ||
>>
>> This is neither metrically nor syntactically satisfactory. On examining a
>> manuscript of the text, I found that it read:
>>
>> ?r?vatsasa?j??d dvijapu?gav?d ya? ?r?bh?yin?mn? su?uve ca s?dhv? |
>> ?r?y?davena vyarac?ha tena sudh?nidhis t?jikayogap?rva? ||
>>
>> Y?davas?ri thus appears to give his mother's name as *?r?bh?yi*. I have
>> not come across this name before -- can anyone confirm that it exists?
>>
>> Thanks in advance,
>> Martin Gansten
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
>> committee)
>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
>> unsubscribe)
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Nagaraj Paturi
>
> Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.
>
> Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies
>
> FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of  Liberal Education,
>
> (Pune, Maharashtra, INDIA )
>
>
>
>



-- 
Nagaraj Paturi

Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.

Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies

FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of  Liberal Education,

(Pune, Maharashtra, INDIA )


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From christophe.vielle at uclouvain.be  Sun Apr 23 09:36:33 2017
From: christophe.vielle at uclouvain.be (Christophe Vielle)
Date: Sun, 23 Apr 17 11:36:33 +0200
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Buddhavacanam
In-Reply-To: <343399662.8122310.1492858906978@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <E72B8FC8-503E-4504-BA02-6BA1D584DF40@uclouvain.be>

Dear list,
Without being intended to be related to this thread, I just received an email from Dylan Esler informing me that the volumes of the  ?Buddhist Forum? (ed. Dr. Tadeusz Skorupski) are available here :
> http://www.shin-ibs.edu/publications/the-buddhist-forum/

among which
> K. R. Norman, A Philological Approach to Buddhism (The Buddhist Forum  vol. 5)
http://www.shin-ibs.edu/publications/the-buddhist-forum/the-buddhist-forum-volume-v/
which deals with the question of the Buddhavacana on several pages.
Best wishes,
Christophe

???????????????????
Christophe Vielle
Louvain-la-Neuve



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From mmdesh at umich.edu  Sun Apr 23 10:05:39 2017
From: mmdesh at umich.edu (Madhav Deshpande)
Date: Sun, 23 Apr 17 06:05:39 -0400
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Female name Bhaayi?
In-Reply-To: <CAJGj9eYCgo35rZVL=DYpKCVfYzYuVWYT_AtG=fwKND8rtcaBcA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAB3-dzdfkcfgkC2zMVOtwG+8-yuxQsGODtMa9E1hv_xv4PCz5Q@mail.gmail.com>

The town "V??" (???) is found in Maharashtra, a famous place near Satara,
where many Sanskrit works like Dharmako?a were published.  Vai has been a
well known center for Sanskrit scholarship and the home of the Pr?j?a
P??ha??l?, which continues to function till today.

Madhav Deshpande
Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA

On Sun, Apr 23, 2017 at 4:41 AM, Nagaraj Paturi via INDOLOGY <
indology at list.indology.info> wrote:

> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kasturba_Gandhi
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Savitribai_Phule
>
> On Sun, Apr 23, 2017 at 2:07 PM, Nagaraj Paturi <nagarajpaturi at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> I am sure, most of you must be aware of the female name ending b?? /b?y?/
>> b?y /b? found in many contemporary northern particularly north-western
>> languages.
>>
>> Pingree's version is possibly b?? >v??, such a phonetic change b<>v being
>> quite common many Indian languages.
>>
>> The bh?? version could possibly be a hyperstandardization or scribal
>> error.
>>
>> On Sun, Apr 23, 2017 at 11:04 AM, Martin Gansten via INDOLOGY <
>> indology at list.indology.info> wrote:
>>
>>> According to David Pingree (CESS A5: 335), the astrological author
>>> Y?davas?ri (early 17th century, Gujarat?) lived in a place called V??. In
>>> support, Pingree quotes the author's *T?jikayogasudh?nidhi* (16.27):
>>>
>>> ?r?vatsasa?j??d dvijapu?gav?dya? ?r?v??n?mni supure ca s?dhv? |
>>> ?r?y?davena vyarac?ha tena sudh?nidhis t?jikayogap?rva? ||
>>>
>>> This is neither metrically nor syntactically satisfactory. On examining
>>> a manuscript of the text, I found that it read:
>>>
>>> ?r?vatsasa?j??d dvijapu?gav?d ya? ?r?bh?yin?mn? su?uve ca s?dhv? |
>>> ?r?y?davena vyarac?ha tena sudh?nidhis t?jikayogap?rva? ||
>>>
>>> Y?davas?ri thus appears to give his mother's name as *?r?bh?yi*. I have
>>> not come across this name before -- can anyone confirm that it exists?
>>>
>>> Thanks in advance,
>>> Martin Gansten
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
>>> committee)
>>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options
>>> or unsubscribe)
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Nagaraj Paturi
>>
>> Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.
>>
>> Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies
>>
>> FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of  Liberal Education,
>>
>> (Pune, Maharashtra, INDIA )
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Nagaraj Paturi
>
> Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.
>
> Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies
>
> FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of  Liberal Education,
>
> (Pune, Maharashtra, INDIA )
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
> committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
> unsubscribe)
>


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From martingansten at gmail.com  Sun Apr 23 14:34:14 2017
From: martingansten at gmail.com (Martin Gansten)
Date: Sun, 23 Apr 17 16:34:14 +0200
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Female name Bhaayi?
In-Reply-To: <CAB3-dzdfkcfgkC2zMVOtwG+8-yuxQsGODtMa9E1hv_xv4PCz5Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <83f7904a-2c49-ff71-d8fd-d670b81f4ca0@gmail.com>

Nagaraj wrote:

> I am sure, most of you must be aware of the female name ending b?? 
> /b?y?/ b?y /b? found in many contemporary northern particularly 
> north-western languages.
>
> Pingree's version is possibly b?? >v??, such a phonetic change b<>v 
> being quite common many Indian languages.
>
> The bh?? version could possibly be a hyperstandardization or scribal 
> error.

Yes, this was one of the first thoughts to strike me. But /?r?bh?yi/ is 
used consistently at the end of each of the sixteen chapters; the -i is 
short, and surely the variation v<>bh is not very common, at least 
outside Bengal? (This is not my area of expertise, so I'm open to 
correction.) Also, if /bh?yi/ is to be understood as a suffix, ?r? would 
have to be the mother's personal name. Not impossible, of course, but 
perhaps unusual?

Madhav wrote:

> The town "V??" (???) is found in Maharashtra, a famous place near 
> Satara, where many Sanskrit works like Dharmako?a were published.  Vai 
> has been a well known center for Sanskrit scholarship and the home of 
> the Pr?j?a P??ha??l?, which continues to function till today.

Perhaps that is why Pingree homed in on it (though he explicitly says 
that Y?dava lived in Gujarat).* It may have been one of his 
over-confident emendations. But even reading /v?[y]i/ f?r /bh?yi/ and 
/supure/ for /su?uve/, the /-n?mni/ will be unmetrical and the first two 
p?das won't hang together, so I do think his suggested reading must be 
abandoned.

(* I did try a web search for ??? ??????, but all I could find was ???-???!)

Martin



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From nagarajpaturi at gmail.com  Sun Apr 23 15:33:16 2017
From: nagarajpaturi at gmail.com (Nagaraj Paturi)
Date: Sun, 23 Apr 17 21:03:16 +0530
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Female name Bhaayi?
In-Reply-To: <83f7904a-2c49-ff71-d8fd-d670b81f4ca0@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAJGj9eZSAdAHpKwLoaBmFk9U5L+Q1k4hpxaQz+sk9JTsDajh9A@mail.gmail.com>

Place names like v?? < v?p? = step well are common  and are found in more
than one region of India. Its south Indian variant b?vi , b?yi, b?i, b?y is
found in a big number of place names, as the second/ending part, at least
in Telugu and Kannada speaking regions. For that matter, it is found even
in the form of v?yi in some south Indian place names.

[image: Inline image 1]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rani_ki_vav

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wai,_Maharashtra

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vapi

On Sun, Apr 23, 2017 at 8:04 PM, Martin Gansten <martingansten at gmail.com>
wrote:

> Nagaraj wrote:
>
> I am sure, most of you must be aware of the female name ending b?? /b?y?/
> b?y /b? found in many contemporary northern particularly north-western
> languages.
>
> Pingree's version is possibly b?? >v??, such a phonetic change b<>v being
> quite common many Indian languages.
>
> The bh?? version could possibly be a hyperstandardization or scribal
> error.
>
>
> Yes, this was one of the first thoughts to strike me. But *?r?bh?yi* is
> used consistently at the end of each of the sixteen chapters; the -i is
> short, and surely the variation v<>bh is not very common, at least outside
> Bengal? (This is not my area of expertise, so I'm open to correction.)
> Also, if *bh?yi* is to be understood as a suffix, ?r? would have to be
> the mother's personal name. Not impossible, of course, but perhaps unusual?
>
> Madhav wrote:
>
> The town "V??" (???) is found in Maharashtra, a famous place near Satara,
> where many Sanskrit works like Dharmako?a were published.  Vai has been a
> well known center for Sanskrit scholarship and the home of the Pr?j?a
> P??ha??l?, which continues to function till today.
>
>
> Perhaps that is why Pingree homed in on it (though he explicitly says that
> Y?dava lived in Gujarat).* It may have been one of his over-confident
> emendations. But even reading *v?[y]i* f?r *bh?yi* and *supure* for
> *su?uve*, the *-n?mni* will be unmetrical and the first two p?das won't
> hang together, so I do think his suggested reading must be abandoned.
>
> (* I did try a web search for ??? ??????, but all I could find was
> ???-???!)
>
> Martin
>
>


-- 
Nagaraj Paturi

Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.

Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies

FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of  Liberal Education,

(Pune, Maharashtra, INDIA )


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From nagarajpaturi at gmail.com  Sun Apr 23 15:38:27 2017
From: nagarajpaturi at gmail.com (Nagaraj Paturi)
Date: Sun, 23 Apr 17 21:08:27 +0530
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Female name Bhaayi?
In-Reply-To: <CAJGj9eZSAdAHpKwLoaBmFk9U5L+Q1k4hpxaQz+sk9JTsDajh9A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAJGj9eadmmef5nST_cpB3pKV+yPGpeH6nKB7R2NpCCjPtzPGGA@mail.gmail.com>

Its not v> bh , Its b?? > v?? or b?? > bh?? . b?? is the expected form.

?r?b?? /?r?b?i / ?r?b?y is a very much possible female personal name.



On Sun, Apr 23, 2017 at 9:03 PM, Nagaraj Paturi <nagarajpaturi at gmail.com>
wrote:

> Place names like v?? < v?p? = step well are common  and are found in more
> than one region of India. Its south Indian variant b?vi , b?yi, b?i, b?y is
> found in a big number of place names, as the second/ending part, at least
> in Telugu and Kannada speaking regions. For that matter, it is found even
> in the form of v?yi in some south Indian place names.
>
> [image: Inline image 1]
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rani_ki_vav
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wai,_Maharashtra
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vapi
>
> On Sun, Apr 23, 2017 at 8:04 PM, Martin Gansten <martingansten at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Nagaraj wrote:
>>
>> I am sure, most of you must be aware of the female name ending b?? /b?y?/
>> b?y /b? found in many contemporary northern particularly north-western
>> languages.
>>
>> Pingree's version is possibly b?? >v??, such a phonetic change b<>v being
>> quite common many Indian languages.
>>
>> The bh?? version could possibly be a hyperstandardization or scribal
>> error.
>>
>>
>> Yes, this was one of the first thoughts to strike me. But *?r?bh?yi* is
>> used consistently at the end of each of the sixteen chapters; the -i is
>> short, and surely the variation v<>bh is not very common, at least outside
>> Bengal? (This is not my area of expertise, so I'm open to correction.)
>> Also, if *bh?yi* is to be understood as a suffix, ?r? would have to be
>> the mother's personal name. Not impossible, of course, but perhaps unusual?
>>
>> Madhav wrote:
>>
>> The town "V??" (???) is found in Maharashtra, a famous place near Satara,
>> where many Sanskrit works like Dharmako?a were published.  Vai has been a
>> well known center for Sanskrit scholarship and the home of the Pr?j?a
>> P??ha??l?, which continues to function till today.
>>
>>
>> Perhaps that is why Pingree homed in on it (though he explicitly says
>> that Y?dava lived in Gujarat).* It may have been one of his over-confident
>> emendations. But even reading *v?[y]i* f?r *bh?yi* and *supure* for
>> *su?uve*, the *-n?mni* will be unmetrical and the first two p?das won't
>> hang together, so I do think his suggested reading must be abandoned.
>>
>> (* I did try a web search for ??? ??????, but all I could find was
>> ???-???!)
>>
>> Martin
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Nagaraj Paturi
>
> Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.
>
> Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies
>
> FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of  Liberal Education,
>
> (Pune, Maharashtra, INDIA )
>
>
>
>



-- 
Nagaraj Paturi

Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.

Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies

FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of  Liberal Education,

(Pune, Maharashtra, INDIA )


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From martingansten at gmail.com  Sun Apr 23 16:00:07 2017
From: martingansten at gmail.com (Martin Gansten)
Date: Sun, 23 Apr 17 18:00:07 +0200
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Female name Bhaayi?
In-Reply-To: <CAJGj9eadmmef5nST_cpB3pKV+yPGpeH6nKB7R2NpCCjPtzPGGA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <073697ac-b9e7-a08e-a1c3-6db8ddc98261@gmail.com>

But in this case, neither of the two MSS I have been able to examine so 
far supports any of these readings. One consistently has /bh?yi/, at 
least 17 times; the other alternates between /bh?yi/ and /bh?i/. There 
is no b/v and no long ?. Therefore I am hesitant to accept this as a 
variant of the /b??/ suffix.

Martin


Den 2017-04-23 kl. 17:38, skrev Nagaraj Paturi:
> Its not v> bh , Its b?? > v?? or b?? > bh?? . b?? is the expected form.
>
> ?r?b?? /?r?b?i / ?r?b?y is a very much possible female personal name.



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From nagarajpaturi at gmail.com  Sun Apr 23 17:40:27 2017
From: nagarajpaturi at gmail.com (Nagaraj Paturi)
Date: Sun, 23 Apr 17 23:10:27 +0530
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Female name Bhaayi?
In-Reply-To: <073697ac-b9e7-a08e-a1c3-6db8ddc98261@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAJGj9easqGaPXZi4_ABf52eBboZgANh9hYHb178ox4sKENbWCg@mail.gmail.com>

Shortening of the end vowel is not a hurdle as it is one of the variants of
the long vowel ending forms abundantly found.

But consistent repetition is certainly something to consider.

Sorry not to have been able to help you resolve.

On Sun, Apr 23, 2017 at 9:30 PM, Martin Gansten <martingansten at gmail.com>
wrote:

> But in this case, neither of the two MSS I have been able to examine so
> far supports any of these readings. One consistently has *bh?yi*, at
> least 17 times; the other alternates between *bh?yi* and *bh?i*. There is
> no b/v and no long ?. Therefore I am hesitant to accept this as a variant
> of the *b??* suffix.
>
> Martin
>
>
> Den 2017-04-23 kl. 17:38, skrev Nagaraj Paturi:
>
> Its not v> bh , Its b?? > v?? or b?? > bh?? . b?? is the expected form.
>
> ?r?b?? /?r?b?i / ?r?b?y is a very much possible female personal name.
>
>
>


-- 
Nagaraj Paturi

Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.

Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies

FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of  Liberal Education,

(Pune, Maharashtra, INDIA )


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From ashok.aklujkar at gmail.com  Sun Apr 23 18:52:12 2017
From: ashok.aklujkar at gmail.com (Ashok Aklujkar)
Date: Sun, 23 Apr 17 11:52:12 -0700
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Female name Bhaayi?
In-Reply-To: <073697ac-b9e7-a08e-a1c3-6db8ddc98261@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <10DCF088-7CA9-471C-9B5B-F6AC189B8F3F@mail.ubc.ca>

I see no problem with the manuscript reading 
?r?vatsa-sa?j??d dvija-pu?gav?d ya? ?r?-bh?yi-n?mn? su?uve ca s?dhv? |
?r?-y?davena vyarac?ha tena sudh?-nidhis t?jika-yoga-p?rva? ||
(but I do see a problem with David Pingree, a scholar I respect very much, if there are other instances of him emending texts as in the present case).

The author Y?dava/?r?y?dava is simply telling us that an eminent brahmin named ?r?vatsa was his father and an honorable woman ?r?-b?? (to use our present-day standard spelling) was his mother. Names like Lak?m?-b??, T?r?-b??, Ahaly?-b?? were commonly heard in his time and in his part of the world (cf. Dr. Nagaraj Paturi: ??r?b?? /?r?b?i / ?r?b?y is a very much possible female personal name.?). On the whole, scholars were not as strict about the writing of non-Sanskrit words as they were about the writing of Sanskrit words (note, for example, the way the g?th?s are quoted and accepted in K?vya-??stra works). It was not unusual to write the non-Sanskrit words as one heard them or as the metre required; approximation was acceptable. Therefore the writing of (our expected) b?? as bh?y? or bh?yi need not be viewed as presenting a serious problem. (again. cf. Paturi: ?Shortening of the end vowel is not a hurdle ??)

The ?ca? in the second quarter of the verse initially bothered me, but there could be justification for it in a preceding verse of the section, if . 

a.a. 


> On Apr 23, 2017, at 9:00 AM, Martin Gansten via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info <mailto:indology at list.indology.info>> wrote:
> 
> One [ms.I have been able to examine so far] consistently has bh?yi, at least 17 times; the other alternates between bh?yi and bh?i. There is no b/v and no long ?. Therefore I am hesitant to accept this as a variant of the b?? suffix.


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From ashok.aklujkar at gmail.com  Sun Apr 23 18:59:40 2017
From: ashok.aklujkar at gmail.com (Ashok Aklujkar)
Date: Sun, 23 Apr 17 11:59:40 -0700
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Female name Bhaayi?
In-Reply-To: <073697ac-b9e7-a08e-a1c3-6db8ddc98261@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <0BED10D8-76F0-4747-900F-6CB4E7E02C82@mail.ubc.ca>

Please complete the last sentence of my last email as: ?if the verse under discussion is not the first verse of the section.?

a.a.




From rhododaktylos at gmail.com  Sun Apr 23 18:59:30 2017
From: rhododaktylos at gmail.com (Antonia Ruppel)
Date: Sun, 23 Apr 17 19:59:30 +0100
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Examination copies for the Cambridge Introduction to Sanskrit
Message-ID: <CAEjEOsCyywbdVucFceKCwCVOFd3PWGtZCPqmgtkc7F5U62U-Pw@mail.gmail.com>

Dear all,

I have heard from several of you that they have had issues ordering
examination copies of the Cambridge Introduction to Sanskrit. If you are a
Sanskrit instructor of any kind and would like to receive a copy of the
book, would you please email me your name, university mailing address and
basic description of the course that you are/your department is teaching? I
will make a list and pass it on directly to the relevant people at CUP.

(Also, in case you wanted to buy the book from the CUP website: the first
print run is sold out, but the book is being reprinted. CUP India will also
offer an imprint that will be significantly cheaper than the Western
version. Please email me if you would like to be kept up to date about
either of this.)

I apologise for sending another email about this book to the list! I hope
some will find it useful.

All the best,
     Antonia


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From martingansten at gmail.com  Sun Apr 23 19:53:19 2017
From: martingansten at gmail.com (Martin Gansten)
Date: Sun, 23 Apr 17 21:53:19 +0200
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Female name Bhaayi?
In-Reply-To: <10DCF088-7CA9-471C-9B5B-F6AC189B8F3F@mail.ubc.ca>
Message-ID: <f7c72489-8d3e-970b-5d98-e6619b156d07@gmail.com>

Thank you, Ashok, for your comments.

> I see no problem with the manuscript reading
> ?r?vatsa-sa?j??d dvija-pu?gav?d ya? ?r?-bh?yi-n?mn? su?uve ca s?dhv? |
> ?r?-y?davena vyarac?ha tena sudh?-nidhis t?jika-yoga-p?rva? ||

I'm glad to hear it ;nor do I. I am just curious about the name.

> (but I do see a problem with David Pingree, a scholar I respect very 
> much, if there are other instances of him emending texts as in the 
> present case).

I don't want to seem overly critical -- Pingree was a trailblazer, and 
every scholar working on the history of astrology owes him a debt of 
gratitude. But it must be conceded that he was somewhat prone to rash 
emendations and far-reaching interpretations. In recent years, Bill Mak 
has shown the problems with some of Pingree's work on the 
/Yavanaj?taka/; and in another linguistic field (but still related to 
astrology), Stephan Heilen in his /Hadriani genitura/ (De Gruyter 2015) 
similarly has some reservations about Pingree's edition of Hephaestio's 
/Apotelesmatics/. I am not competent to judge Pingree's work on texts in 
any language but Sanskrit, but there I do quite often find reason to 
disagree with his readings and/or translations. It would be interesting 
to learn from an Arabist what the situation is with his work in that area.

> It was not unusual to write the non-Sanskrit words as one heard them 
> or as the metre required; approximation was acceptable. Therefore the 
> writing of (our expected) b?? as bh?y? or bh?yi need not be viewed as 
> presenting a serious problem. (again. cf. Paturi: ?Shortening of the 
> end vowel is not a hurdle ??)

Yes, I take your point; but the situation here is the opposite: there is 
practically no variation across manuscripts (I have now located a third 
one) or metres. They all read /bh?yi/ or /bh?i/ -- I have not so far 
seen a single instance lacking the aspiration. That was what made me 
wonder in the first place.

> The ?ca? in the second quarter of the verse initially bothered me, but 
> there could be justification for it in a preceding verse of the 
> section, if [if the verse under discussion is not the first verse of 
> the section].

That depends on how you define a section -- it is right towards the end 
of the last chapter, but the immediately preceding verse praises the 
work itself and says nothing of the author.

Martin



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From nagarajpaturi at gmail.com  Mon Apr 24 03:11:13 2017
From: nagarajpaturi at gmail.com (Nagaraj Paturi)
Date: Mon, 24 Apr 17 08:41:13 +0530
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Female name Bhaayi?
In-Reply-To: <f7c72489-8d3e-970b-5d98-e6619b156d07@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAJGj9ebRWTO8=J7rzhXU_LO0=BqonLygsBxiORstdSGePGzmmg@mail.gmail.com>

>there is practically no variation across manuscripts (I have now located a
third one) or metres. They all read *bh?yi* or *bh?i* -- I have not so far
seen a single instance lacking the aspiration. That was what made me wonder
in the first place.

                                          Prof. Aklujkar's " It was not
unusual to write the non-Sanskrit words as one heard them" solves the
problem of bh?i version of b?? being consistently followed through out. It
is not a scribal error. It is a variant pronunciation sincerely represented
consistently.



On Mon, Apr 24, 2017 at 1:23 AM, Martin Gansten <martingansten at gmail.com>
wrote:

> Thank you, Ashok, for your comments.
>
> I see no problem with the manuscript reading
> ?r?vatsa-sa?j??d dvija-pu?gav?d ya? ?r?-bh?yi-n?mn? su?uve ca s?dhv? |
> ?r?-y?davena vyarac?ha tena sudh?-nidhis t?jika-yoga-p?rva? ||
>
>
> I'm glad to hear it ;nor do I. I am just curious about the name.
>
> (but I do see a problem with David Pingree, a scholar I respect very much,
> if there are other instances of him emending texts as in the present case).
>
>
> I don't want to seem overly critical -- Pingree was a trailblazer, and
> every scholar working on the history of astrology owes him a debt of
> gratitude. But it must be conceded that he was somewhat prone to rash
> emendations and far-reaching interpretations. In recent years, Bill Mak has
> shown the problems with some of Pingree's work on the *Yavanaj?taka*; and
> in another linguistic field (but still related to astrology), Stephan
> Heilen in his *Hadriani genitura* (De Gruyter 2015) similarly has some
> reservations about Pingree's edition of Hephaestio's *Apotelesmatics*. I
> am not competent to judge Pingree's work on texts in any language but
> Sanskrit, but there I do quite often find reason to disagree with his
> readings and/or translations. It would be interesting to learn from an
> Arabist what the situation is with his work in that area.
>
> It was not unusual to write the non-Sanskrit words as one heard them or as
> the metre required; approximation was acceptable. Therefore the writing of
> (our expected) b?? as bh?y? or bh?yi need not be viewed as presenting a
> serious problem. (again. cf. Paturi: ?Shortening of the end vowel is not
> a hurdle ??)
>
>
> Yes, I take your point; but the situation here is the opposite: there is
> practically no variation across manuscripts (I have now located a third
> one) or metres. They all read *bh?yi* or *bh?i* -- I have not so far seen
> a single instance lacking the aspiration. That was what made me wonder in
> the first place.
>
> The ?ca? in the second quarter of the verse initially bothered me, but
> there could be justification for it in a preceding verse of the section, if
> [if the verse under discussion is not the first verse of the section].
>
>
> That depends on how you define a section -- it is right towards the end of
> the last chapter, but the immediately preceding verse praises the work
> itself and says nothing of the author.
>
> Martin
>
>


-- 
Nagaraj Paturi

Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.

Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies

FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of  Liberal Education,

(Pune, Maharashtra, INDIA )


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From jknutson at hawaii.edu  Mon Apr 24 03:32:46 2017
From: jknutson at hawaii.edu (Jesse Knutson)
Date: Sun, 23 Apr 17 17:32:46 -1000
Subject: =?utf-8?Q?[INDOLOGY]_(text_request)_Prabandhacint=C4=81ma=E1=B9=87i?=
Message-ID: <CAAiVBEVTVKJks00_AxfNe-i=TwmJ=vNfXMN4ZEpteFxfKj9MvA@mail.gmail.com>

Dear Friends, Does someone perchance have a soft copy of the Singhi Jaina
Granthamala ed. of the Prabandhacint?ma?i? Thanks,J

-- 
Jesse Ross Knutson PhD
Assistant Professor of Sanskrit and Bengali, Department of Indo-Pacific
Languages and Literatures
University of Hawai'i at M?noa
461 Spalding


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From jknutson at hawaii.edu  Mon Apr 24 03:40:25 2017
From: jknutson at hawaii.edu (Jesse Knutson)
Date: Sun, 23 Apr 17 17:40:25 -1000
Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_[INDOLOGY]_(text_request)_Prabandhacint=C4=81ma=E1=B9=87i?=
Message-ID: <CAAiVBEW6f8BK5p=WdhmSw-_FuUsMBAWT8ahWD+nesaDLRjKL-Q@mail.gmail.com>

Warm thanks to Eric Gurevitch for providing the text ????????!,J

On Sun, Apr 23, 2017 at 5:32 PM, Jesse Knutson <jknutson at hawaii.edu> wrote:

> Dear Friends, Does someone perchance have a soft copy of the Singhi Jaina
> Granthamala ed. of the Prabandhacint?ma?i? Thanks,J
>
> --
> Jesse Ross Knutson PhD
> Assistant Professor of Sanskrit and Bengali, Department of Indo-Pacific
> Languages and Literatures
> University of Hawai'i at M?noa
> 461 Spalding
>



-- 
Jesse Ross Knutson PhD
Assistant Professor of Sanskrit and Bengali, Department of Indo-Pacific
Languages and Literatures
University of Hawai'i at M?noa
461 Spalding


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From camillo.formigatti at bodleian.ox.ac.uk  Mon Apr 24 09:25:50 2017
From: camillo.formigatti at bodleian.ox.ac.uk (Camillo Formigatti)
Date: Mon, 24 Apr 17 09:25:50 +0000
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Sanskrit literature in numbers
In-Reply-To: <CAGsvHi_sj_hS7vJ5XCazrYb4B5g2BxPTViPMAssvqvC=ni=xNQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <0C647B6E904DBB4BAD3A28D522DC73151DA6BB9C@MBX05.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk>

Dear Hartmut,

Many thanks for the very long and detailed reply.

Unfortunately, as I have repeated many times even in my last e-mail, I do not think that this list is the correct arena to tackle huge problems such as the periodization of Sanskrit literature, the definition of what is a text and many others that you raised?including the definition of what is a manuscript.

At the cost of sounding like a broken record, I constantly deal every day with such questions and I usually think it is better to work slowly and examine as much primary material as possible, before being able to say anything meaningful. It is for this reason that I believe research publications in every form are the best of way of conveying one?s own research and ideas, surely not a mailing list.

I believe it is better if we both go back to our wonderful manuscript collections and continue to catalogue them to the best of our knowledge for the sake of research.

Best wishes,

Camillo

P.S. One small point though: there are printed Sanskrit texts much older than you think.


________________________________

Dr Camillo A. Formigatti
John Clay Sanskrit Librarian

Bodleian Libraries
The Weston Library
Broad Street
Oxford
OX1 3BG

Email: camillo.formigatti at bodleian.ox.ac.uk<mailto:camillo.formigatti at bodleian.ox.ac.uk>
Tel. (office): 01865 (2)77208
www.bodleian.ox.ac.uk<http://www.bodleian.ox.ac.uk/>

From: Hartmut Buescher [mailto:buescherhartmut at gmail.com]
Sent: 22 April 2017 09:38
To: Camillo Formigatti <camillo.formigatti at bodleian.ox.ac.uk>
Cc: Dagmar Wujastyk <d.wujastyk at gmail.com>; indology <INDOLOGY at list.indology.info>; Dominik Wujastyk <wujastyk at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] Sanskrit literature in numbers

Dear Camillo,

felt reminded that Gadamer once said, ?dass man anders versteht,
wenn man ?berhaupt versteht? (?that one understands differently,
in the case one understands at all?), an assertion that reflects the condition
for dialectical processes of insight to take place at all, both at larger cultural
historical scales as well as in discussions like the present one.
Understanding differently is not the same as misinterpretation,
it is a conditio humana.
As already said, although still regarding your assertion that the numbers
of manuscripts ?are simply telling us ... how many books have survived? as,
let's say, a formulation that does not escape from being understood the way I did,
my point has been to reemphasize the nature of actual complexities (and your
response has partly been to delightfully further enhance the vision of these), while
having basically expressed myself very much in support of your good reasons
?to be baffled by the fact that it seems very difficult to get reliable quantitative
data to start with? (didn't you realize this?).
Needless to say, I am quite convinced of your competence and certainly did not
intend to question or criticize it when taken up a single assertion of yours,
yet de facto related to the thread addressing, the comparative aspects aside,
an aporetic constellation (to recall Dagmar's formulation of the problem:
?My sense has always been that Sanskrit literature is particularly large,
but perhaps this is not substantiated by data??).
Be it in view of comparing it with the literatures of other pre-modern cultures
or not, how can we assess the size of the pre-modern body of Sanskrit literature,
in the first place? What are the valid data? How complex and problematic are these?

Given printed books of Sanskrit works (unlike, e.g., Chinese or Tibetan printed works)
first appear at the end of pre-modern times, these have no substantiating significance
for the question at hand. Here we seem to agree, as on many other points, which you
implicitly seem to confirm by repeatedly stating that things I asserted were already
implied by you.
Where we don't seem to agree, however, is the complex value of extant manuscripts
as forming part of our valid data with regard to assessing the magnitude of
pre-modern works composed (despite differences relative to genres & periods).
That is, unless your statement ?I fail to see how this is relevant for a count of the
works composed? was meant to suggest something else.

Of course, as you say, ?what counts is the number of works composed,
even if lost and known only through indirect transmission?, but where
? original Sanskrit works now extant only in the form of translations apart ?
do you find references to works that are lost, or only available in the form
of quotations, except in what is extant, either still unpublished in the form
of manuscripts or already published on the basis of extant manuscripts?
Here I have to disagree with your view that ?[i]t doesn?t matter how many
manuscripts of a given text are extant, nor their condition or philological value?,
because all these aspects may contribute to qualified insights with regard to
the complexities when employing what is still extant in some form (be it only
as a tiny fragment of a Turfan MS containing valuable references) to achieve
greater clarity regarding the at least approximate totality of works composed in
of pre-modern times, even if the data may only be valid for limited periods.
Thus reemphasizing a number of aspects regarding these complexities
was likewise meant as a means of refinement addressing mere speculations
on the basis of educated guesses (Pingree was mentioned earlier) related to
the vast quantities of MSS lying around in various parts of India (and abroad).

Canonical works in translation (especially Chinese and Tibetan ones), while covering
mainly specific areas of Buddhist literature, are another vast resource (largely unrelated
to what today has survived in the form of Sanskrit MSS) for quantitative assessments,
though not without problems as to what is authentic, what apocryphal (as has already
been thematized from early on in respectively the Chinese and the Tibetan tradition).

Admittedly, given the conditions of the Indian climate, a major problem
contributing to uncertainties about the survival rate of works, once produced,
in the form of extant MSS generated by means of lineages of transmission
(as a fundamental conservative factor of Indian literary traditions) is our still
insufficient knowledge of their rate of success (as specified in relation to various
genres), which otherwise might help to provide us with some additional means
for the extrapolation of useful data. That is, the higher the percentage of works
we may assume to have been successfully transmitted from generation to generation
the more significant is what has survived for a quantitative evaluation of what existed
in an earlier period.

That these lineages of textual transmission have generally disappeared nowadays,
while it is unclear to what extent contemporary Indian institutional efforts of professional
conservation may offer sufficiently adequate substitution, is another dilemma.
(The working conditions of those who do care being an additional one.
And if older catalogues forming part of the basis for producing the NCC
may already have assumed advanced stages of decay [see photo attached;
taken in 2015 on one of my visits to the University of Madras to get
the newest volumes of the NCC], this raises the question of how much
of the material listed in the New Catalogus Catalogorum actually still
exists, or to what extent are the NCC references increasingly becoming fictive?).

Best wishes for your research project on these topics,

Hartmut

.

On Fri, Apr 21, 2017 at 2:29 PM, Camillo Formigatti <camillo.formigatti at bodleian.ox.ac.uk<mailto:camillo.formigatti at bodleian.ox.ac.uk>> wrote:
Dear Colleagues,

It seems that my replies have started a discussion in which what I intended to be simply short remarks without any intention of being precise or exhaustive, have been partly misinterpreted. I was simply pointing out my own, little personal experience and random thoughts on this matter.

I will tackle each topic with a separate reply, for the sake of clarity.

??After all, his assertion (given with reference to ?estimates of the number
of South Asian manuscripts?) that ?numbers again are simply telling us
?in an unreliable way?how many books have survived, not how many works
were composed? is unfortunately not quite adequate;
[?]  there is still this
lingering implicit assumption that a manuscript may be equated with a work/book
that needs to be radically discarded.??

I thought that all this was implicit in what I wrote and did not need to be further explained, since I supposed I was writing to an audience of experts. I would be a very poor librarian and cataloguer of manuscripts indeed?not to say textual scholar?if I hadn?t already grasped this simple notion after more than a decade spent working with manuscripts and books at various levels.


??Not only do we all as Sanskrit scholars know that the production of a critical edition
of a single work usually is based on a number of available manuscripts that in fact,
depending on the work to be edited, may greatly vary from just a few to dozens (& more),
but taking just a look at the New Catalogus Catalogorum immediately reveals an
enormous variation regarding the proportion that exists between a given work and
the amount of manuscripts transmitting it.
[?]  as the case may be, crucial textual variants,
insights into the given textual transmission, etc. ??


I fail to see how this is relevant for a count of the works composed. It doesn?t matter how many manuscripts of a given text are extant, nor their condition or philological value, because what counts is the number of works composed, even if lost and known only through indirect transmission. This is precisely one?and I stress only one, lest somebody thinks I am oversimplifying?of the reasons why I said that the numbers of extant books (and I mean books, not only manuscripts, because I was dealing with printed books as well in my article) is not that useful for this type of assessment. I was simply suggesting a bibliographical reference, admittedly in a self-promoting way and albeit not quite relevant, we might argue. Still, I thought it could be a starting point to assess the supposed dimensions of Sanskrit literature vis-?-vis other literatures by using quantitative data at our disposal before applying for a grant to start a research project on the topic.


??On the other hand, huge texts, the more so when provided with a commentary,
cannot be comprised by single manuscripts, even when complete.
Presently engaged in describing a so-called Pa??it Collection
(acquired by the Royal Library/Det Kongelige Bibliotek, Copenhagen, in 1924),
I recall, just to give an example, that each of the 12 books (skandha)
of the Bh?gavatapur??a with ?r?dhara?s commentary Bh?v?rthad?pik?
conveniently amounted to a separate manuscript. ??

Same as above, this argument was implied in what I wrote and I thought it didn?t need to be expressed for this audience. Nevertheless, I would like to point out that given the very nature of South Asian books, which are (more often than not, again I am writing a short reply and I can?t be exhaustive) bundles of loose leaves, we should be more cautious in cases like this one and maybe consider whether these twelve volumes might were conceived as one single, multi-volume manuscript or not. I am not saying that this is the case for these specific set of 12 manuscripts of the Bhagavatapurana?after all, only the cataloguer can decide and I haven?t seen them?, I?m simply saying that obviously we faced similar challenges while cataloguing the Cambridge manuscripts. We learned very soon that things are often more complicated than we could ever imagine. How do we know that such volumes weren?t meant to be one single manuscript? If they were commissioned by one single person and written within a specific, limited timespan, using the same type of paper etc., then why don?t we consider them as one single manuscript? Is it because the hand changes between the volumes? Even in this case, they were still conceived as a single project, and sometimes in long manuscripts we see different scribes at work (the hand changes amid one single page, and I mean precisely page, not folio), and yet we catalogue them as a single manuscript. Is the foliation not continuous? If not, then we might think that these are indeed separate manuscripts. However, in the case of South Asian manuscritps, in my modest opinion the notion of single manuscript is blurred precisely because of the loose nature of the binding. Yet, there could be cases where even if the foliation restarts and the manuscripts are transmitted separately, they were probably conceived to be a single collection (https://cudl.lib.cam.ac.uk/view/MS-ADD-01709/1). Please note the fact that for these three manuscripts, there is a catch-number linking them, and yet we considered them as separate items and catalogued them accordingly. Did we make the right choice? I?m not sure, for in other cases we decided to group into one single manuscript, and thus one entry, manuscripts that somebody more knowledgeable than us, i.e. Cecil Bendall, catalogued as separate manuscripts, precisely because each part contained a different text (https://cudl.lib.cam.ac.uk/view/MS-ADD-01380-01381/1).


??Yet again, a given MS may likewise, easily in the case of stotras, various kinds of
ritual texts (and other textual genres), contain many more than just a single work.??
I?m not sure we want to discuss this matter in a mailing list, because it would raise even more questions than we could easily answer. Again, we discussed similar cases at length in the Cambridge project and we took particular care in our catalogue to represent in a clear, yet precise way even very complex cases of multi-text, composite manuscripts, like this manuscript of the Astasahasrika (https://cudl.lib.cam.ac.uk/view/MS-ADD-01643/1). Please have a look also at this case of a multi-text collection of Avadanas: https://cudl.lib.cam.ac.uk/view/MS-ADD-01615/1, or again at this extreme case: https://cudl.lib.cam.ac.uk/view/MS-OR-02359/1. I will partly deal with this issue and our approach in the article on the history of the Cambridge collections I mentioned some time ago in the list.


??Neither should it be felt as particularly surprising when discovering that
what at some time had been assembled (and put into an envelope), say, by an owner
of a Sanskrit collection as if consisting in a single MS turns out, on closer inspection,
to actually consist in numerous fragments of altogether heterogeneous character
(in terms of textual sources, scribes, material quality, etc.).??
We have dealt with a similar cases too, and I ought to repeat that this too was implicit in my very casual remark in my first e-mail on the topic.


In other words, given also the published version of the hopefully ongoing project of
the New Catalogus Catalogorum has (even with the future conclusion of the letter h)
to be characterized as being, though already advanced, still only a preliminary assessment
of what has survived, it seems quite important, when assessing the amount of
pre-modern works in Sanskrit, to be aware of the fact that the relevant notion
of ?manuscript? itself is considerably complex (on the empirical level of what is
actually found in Sanskrit collections), thus turning the correlation between MSS
and proper works into an highly problematic issue, if taken as a basis for quantitative
estimates of the literary cultures expressed in the medium of that language.

I believe we all agree with this statement and again, I thought all of what I wrote above was implicit in what I wrote in my first, brief reply.

Best wishes,

Camilllo


________________________________

Dr Camillo A. Formigatti
John Clay Sanskrit Librarian

Bodleian Libraries
The Weston Library
Broad Street
Oxford
OX1 3BG

Email: camillo.formigatti at bodleian.ox.ac.uk<mailto:camillo.formigatti at bodleian.ox.ac.uk>
Tel. (office): 01865 (2)77208
www.bodleian.ox.ac.uk<http://www.bodleian.ox.ac.uk/>

From: Hartmut Buescher [mailto:buescherhartmut at gmail.com<mailto:buescherhartmut at gmail.com>]
Sent: 20 April 2017 19:46
To: Camillo Formigatti <camillo.formigatti at bodleian.ox.ac.uk<mailto:camillo.formigatti at bodleian.ox.ac.uk>>
Cc: Dagmar Wujastyk <d.wujastyk at gmail.com<mailto:d.wujastyk at gmail.com>>; indology <INDOLOGY at list.indology.info<mailto:INDOLOGY at list.indology.info>>

Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] Sanskrit literature in numbers

Some remarks in addition to Camillo?s reflections seem necessary,
since there are further reasons ?to be baffled by the fact that it seems
very difficult to get reliable quantitative data to start with?.
After all, his assertion (given with reference to ?estimates of the number
of South Asian manuscripts?) that ?numbers again are simply telling us
?in an unreliable way?how many books have survived, not how many works
were composed? is unfortunately not quite adequate;
and if rectified by saying at least ?in an extremely unreliable way?, as is unavoidable
to do for someone familiar with collections of Sanskrit manuscripts, there is still this
lingering implicit assumption that a manuscript may be equated with a work/book
that needs to be radically discarded.

Not only do we all as Sanskrit scholars know that the production of a critical edition
of a single work usually is based on a number of available manuscripts that in fact,
depending on the work to be edited, may greatly vary from just a few to dozens (& more),
but taking just a look at the New Catalogus Catalogorum immediately reveals an
enormous variation regarding the proportion that exists between a given work and
the amount of manuscripts transmitting it.
As to the notion of a ?manuscript? hereby, in lucky cases the given MS is complete.
Frequently, however, if not most frequently (another uncertain proportion),
it is fragmentary.

Yet, of course, also fragmentary MSS (be it even one consisting in a single folio or less)
must be principally regarded as being able to provide valid manuscript evidence,
supportive readings and, as the case may be, crucial textual variants,
insights into the given textual transmission, etc.

On the other hand, huge texts, the more so when provided with a commentary,
cannot be comprised by single manuscripts, even when complete.
Presently engaged in describing a so-called Pa??it Collection
(acquired by the Royal Library/Det Kongelige Bibliotek, Copenhagen, in 1924),
I recall, just to give an example, that each of the 12 books (skandha)
of the Bh?gavatapur??a with ?r?dhara?s commentary Bh?v?rthad?pik?
conveniently amounted to a separate manuscript.

Yet again, a given MS may likewise, easily in the case of stotras, various kinds of
ritual texts (and other textual genres), contain many more than just a single work.
Neither should it be felt as particularly surprising when discovering that
what at some time had been assembled (and put into an envelope), say, by an owner
of a Sanskrit collection as if consisting in a single MS turns out, on closer inspection,
to actually consist in numerous fragments of altogether heterogeneous character
(in terms of textual sources, scribes, material quality, etc.).

Furthermore, to address the problem of quantification from yet another perspective,
not all the MSS contained in a given collection (like the mentioned Pa??it Collection)
may a priori be counted as philologically ? implying philology to be a methodologically
strict science untouched by either traditional naiveness or pretentious instances of
post-modern clownery ? valid documents with justified claims of pertinently representing
a given work: the numerous cases of orthographically somewhat uneducated scribes apart,
a not all too great, but an uncertain (if tiny) percentage of MSS simply represents
the work ? throwing tangible light on the sociological aspects of textual transmission ?
consisting in the more or less clumsy writing exercises by pupils (typically found
in the areas of both ?ruti and sm?ti).

In other words, given also the published version of the hopefully ongoing project of
the New Catalogus Catalogorum has (even with the future conclusion of the letter h)
to be characterized as being, though already advanced, still only a preliminary assessment
of what has survived, it seems quite important, when assessing the amount of
pre-modern works in Sanskrit, to be aware of the fact that the relevant notion
of ?manuscript? itself is considerably complex (on the empirical level of what is
actually found in Sanskrit collections), thus turning the correlation between MSS
and proper works into an highly problematic issue, if taken as a basis for quantitative
estimates of the literary cultures expressed in the medium of that language.

Best wishes,

Hartmut

--------------------------------
Hartmut Buescher, PhD,
Research Librarian
The Royal Danish Library, Copenhagen
(Det Kongelige Bibiliotek)
[http://www.kb.dk/en/index.html]




On Thu, Apr 20, 2017 at 12:16 PM, Camillo Formigatti via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info<mailto:indology at list.indology.info>> wrote:
Dear Dagmar,

As to Latin and Greek literature, I believe that choosing a good periodization is difficult, if you want to do it for comparative purposes. Would you consider Byzantine Greek literature or not? If yes, then why not consider Latin literature from late antiquity, medieval times and Renaissance too?  Would it be on linguistic grounds? I think that then you would be forced to compare the periodization let?s say of South Asian or Central Asian history and the history of each language with that of Latin and Greek. Assuming we are talking also of scientific and technical literature, you would also face the issue of assessing the impact of the late diffusion of printing technology in South Asia and on the other hand how this phenomenon might have affected a possible increase in the composition of works in cultures were printing technology was employed early on, such as China and Japan, due to economic reasons. After all, printers and publishing houses wanted to sell more and more books, and in order to do it they had to publish something.

In one of my articles I briefly touched upon the numbers of Latin, Greek, and vernacular languages manuscripts from the 6th to the 15th century as compared to various estimates of the number of South Asian manuscripts, but again, these numbers again are simply telling us?in an unreliable way?how many books have survived, not how many works were composed.

I apologize for the long and unstructured reply, but lately I?ve been fascinated by questions like the one you asked, only to be baffled by the fact that it seems very difficult to get reliable quantitative data to start with.

Best wishes,

Camillo

________________________________

Dr Camillo A. Formigatti
John Clay Sanskrit Librarian

Bodleian Libraries
The Weston Library
Broad Street
Oxford
OX1 3BG

Email: camillo.formigatti at bodleian.ox.ac.uk<mailto:camillo.formigatti at bodleian.ox.ac.uk>
Tel. (office): 01865 (2)77208
www.bodleian.ox.ac.uk<http://www.bodleian.ox.ac.uk/>

From: Dagmar Wujastyk [mailto:d.wujastyk at gmail.com<mailto:d.wujastyk at gmail.com>]
Sent: 19 April 2017 17:32
To: Camillo Formigatti <camillo.formigatti at bodleian.ox.ac.uk<mailto:camillo.formigatti at bodleian.ox.ac.uk>>
Cc: indology <INDOLOGY at list.indology.info<mailto:INDOLOGY at list.indology.info>>
Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] Sanskrit literature in numbers

Dear Camillo,

I must admit I am a bit uncertain where to draw the line. Trying to quantify Latin literature, I think I would want total numbers that could then be split up in classical and then everything later? I am not sure what the cut off date would be.

Best, Dagmar



On 19 April 2017 at 10:19, Camillo Formigatti <camillo.formigatti at bodleian.ox.ac.uk<mailto:camillo.formigatti at bodleian.ox.ac.uk>> wrote:
Dear Dagmar,

This is a very interesting question indeed. May I add two other questions to it? Would you like to know the numbers of extant works only or the number of works in general, even if lost? Also, when you write Latin language, for instance, do you mean only classical Latin (whatever this might mean) or every work that has been written in Latin until today (and I?m not thinking of today?s Latin used in the Vatican, I was rather thinking of authors like the Italian poet Giovanni Pascoli (1855 ?1912), who wrote poems in Latin too)?

Best wishes,

Camillo


________________________________

Dr Camillo A. Formigatti
John Clay Sanskrit Librarian

Bodleian Libraries
The Weston Library
Broad Street
Oxford
OX1 3BG

Email: camillo.formigatti at bodleian.ox.ac.uk<mailto:camillo.formigatti at bodleian.ox.ac.uk>
Tel. (office): 01865<tel:01%20865> (2)77208
www.bodleian.ox.ac.uk<http://www.bodleian.ox.ac.uk/>

From: Dagmar Wujastyk [mailto:d.wujastyk at gmail.com<mailto:d.wujastyk at gmail.com>]
Sent: 19 April 2017 16:53
To: indology <INDOLOGY at list.indology.info<mailto:INDOLOGY at list.indology.info>>
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Sanskrit literature in numbers

Dear colleagues,

Might anyone be able to point me to a publication/data on the relative quantities of Sanskrit works and other pre-modern works in languages such as Latin, Chinese, Tamil, Arabic or Persian?

We all know that there is a very large body of Sanskrit literature, but how does the number of Sanskrit works compare to works written in other languages? My sense has always been that Sanskrit literature is particularly large, but perhaps this is not substantiated by data?

Best wishes,
Dagmar Wujastyk


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From christophe.vielle at uclouvain.be  Mon Apr 24 09:50:10 2017
From: christophe.vielle at uclouvain.be (Christophe Vielle)
Date: Mon, 24 Apr 17 11:50:10 +0200
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Female name Bhaayi?
In-Reply-To: <CAJGj9ebRWTO8=J7rzhXU_LO0=BqonLygsBxiORstdSGePGzmmg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <92115B9C-60F5-4096-A2E4-BBFCAF1823F9@uclouvain.be>

For an example of Malayalam (and I suppose Sanskrit) writing bh?yi for what is transcribed in English "Bayi"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gowri_Lakshmi_Bayi
https://ml.wikipedia.org/wiki/???????_???????_????_???????????

Le 24 avr. 2017 ? 05:11, Nagaraj Paturi via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info> a ?crit :

> >there is practically no variation across manuscripts (I have now located a third one) or metres. They all read bh?yi or bh?i -- I have not so far seen a single instance lacking the aspiration. That was what made me wonder in the first place.
> 
>                                           Prof. Aklujkar's " It was not unusual to write the non-Sanskrit words as one heard them" solves the problem of bh?i version of b?? being consistently followed through out. It is not a scribal error. It is a variant pronunciation sincerely represented consistently. 
> 
> 
> 
> On Mon, Apr 24, 2017 at 1:23 AM, Martin Gansten<martingansten at gmail.com> wrote:
> Thank you, Ashok, for your comments.
> 
>> I see no problem with the manuscript reading 
>> ?r?vatsa-sa?j??d dvija-pu?gav?d ya? ?r?-bh?yi-n?mn? su?uve ca s?dhv? |
>> ?r?-y?davena vyarac?ha tena sudh?-nidhis t?jika-yoga-p?rva? ||
> 
> I'm glad to hear it ;nor do I. I am just curious about the name.
> 
>> (but I do see a problem with David Pingree, a scholar I respect very much, if there are other instances of him emending texts as in the present case).
> 
> I don't want to seem overly critical -- Pingree was a trailblazer, and every scholar working on the history of astrology owes him a debt of gratitude. But it must be conceded that he was somewhat prone to rash emendations and far-reaching interpretations. In recent years, Bill Mak has shown the problems with some of Pingree's work on theYavanaj?taka; and in another linguistic field (but still related to astrology), Stephan Heilen in his Hadriani genitura (De Gruyter 2015) similarly has some reservations about Pingree's edition of Hephaestio'sApotelesmatics. I am not competent to judge Pingree's work on texts in any language but Sanskrit, but there I do quite often find reason to disagree with his readings and/or translations. It would be interesting to learn from an Arabist what the situation is with his work in that area.
> 
>> It was not unusual to write the non-Sanskrit words as one heard them or as the metre required; approximation was acceptable. Therefore the writing of (our expected) b?? as bh?y? or bh?yi need not be viewed as presenting a serious problem. (again. cf. Paturi: ?Shortening of the end vowel is not a hurdle ??)
> 
> Yes, I take your point; but the situation here is the opposite: there is practically no variation across manuscripts (I have now located a third one) or metres. They all read bh?yi or bh?i -- I have not so far seen a single instance lacking the aspiration. That was what made me wonder in the first place.
> 
>> The ?ca? in the second quarter of the verse initially bothered me, but there could be justification for it in a preceding verse of the section, if [if the verse under discussion is not the first verse of the section]. 
> 
> That depends on how you define a section -- it is right towards the end of the last chapter, but the immediately preceding verse praises the work itself and says nothing of the author.
> 
> Martin
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Nagaraj Paturi
>  
> Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.
>  
> Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies
>  
> FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of  Liberal Education,
>  
> (Pune, Maharashtra, INDIA )
>  
>  
>  
> _______________________________________________
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???????????????????
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Louvain-la-Neuve



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From buescherhartmut at gmail.com  Mon Apr 24 11:56:12 2017
From: buescherhartmut at gmail.com (Hartmut Buescher)
Date: Mon, 24 Apr 17 13:56:12 +0200
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Sanskrit literature in numbers
In-Reply-To: <0C647B6E904DBB4BAD3A28D522DC73151DA6BB9C@MBX05.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <CAGsvHi9oMnMDXQb4PPYgE1_r+0eu2YAOrEjbbp7XtTnTd07Utg@mail.gmail.com>

>P.S. One small point though: there are printed Sanskrit texts much older
than you think.

Your own recent Shaw-related assessment (?A Bird?s Eye View of Sanskrit
Print Culture?),
being in this respect similar to the one in Dominik Wujastyk?s (?Indian
Manuscripts?, 2011:3f.) short overview (unfortunately omitting any
reference to VOHD) represents also
my state of awareness.

> I believe research publications in every form are the best of way of
conveying one?s own
research and ideas, surely not a mailing list.

Without wishing to defend my vices, this rather socio-historical and
politico-philosophical
issue of the context-related relative merit/benefit for the production
and/or provocation of
insights that contrasts institutional normativity with spontaneous alterity
is indeed not suitable to be addressed within the framework of this thread.

All the best, just another Cracking Sound



On Mon, Apr 24, 2017 at 11:25 AM, Camillo Formigatti <
camillo.formigatti at bodleian.ox.ac.uk> wrote:

> Dear Hartmut,
>
>
>
> Many thanks for the very long and detailed reply.
>
>
>
> Unfortunately, as I have repeated many times even in my last e-mail, I do
> not think that this list is the correct arena to tackle huge problems such
> as the periodization of Sanskrit literature, the definition of what is a
> text and many others that you raised?including the definition of what is a
> manuscript.
>
>
>
> At the cost of sounding like a broken record, I constantly deal every day
> with such questions and I usually think it is better to work slowly and
> examine as much primary material as possible, before being able to say
> anything meaningful. It is for this reason that I believe research
> publications in every form are the best of way of conveying one?s own
> research and ideas, surely not a mailing list.
>
>
>
> I believe it is better if we both go back to our wonderful manuscript
> collections and continue to catalogue them to the best of our knowledge for
> the sake of research.
>
>
>
> Best wishes,
>
>
>
> Camillo
>
>
>
> P.S. One small point though: there are printed Sanskrit texts much older
> than you think.
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
>
>
> Dr Camillo A. Formigatti
>
> John Clay Sanskrit Librarian
>
>
>
> Bodleian Libraries
>
> The Weston Library
>
> Broad Street
>
> Oxford
>
> OX1 3BG
>
>
>
> Email: camillo.formigatti at bodleian.ox.ac.uk
>
> Tel. (office): 01865 (2)77208
> www.bodleian.ox.ac.uk
>
>
>
> *From:* Hartmut Buescher [mailto:buescherhartmut at gmail.com]
> *Sent:* 22 April 2017 09:38
> *To:* Camillo Formigatti <camillo.formigatti at bodleian.ox.ac.uk>
> *Cc:* Dagmar Wujastyk <d.wujastyk at gmail.com>; indology <
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info>; Dominik Wujastyk <wujastyk at gmail.com>
>
> *Subject:* Re: [INDOLOGY] Sanskrit literature in numbers
>
>
>
> Dear Camillo,
>
> felt reminded that Gadamer once said, ?dass man *anders* versteht,
> wenn man ?berhaupt versteht? (?that one understands differently,
> in the case one understands at all?), an assertion that reflects the
> condition
> for dialectical processes of insight to take place at all, both at larger
> cultural
> historical scales as well as in discussions like the present one.
> Understanding differently is not the same as misinterpretation,
> it is a *conditio humana*.
> As already said, although still regarding your assertion that the numbers
> of manuscripts ?are simply telling us ... how many books have survived? as,
> let's say, a formulation that does not escape from being understood the
> way I did,
> my point has been to reemphasize the nature of actual complexities (and
> your
> response has partly been to delightfully further enhance the vision of
> these), while
> having basically expressed myself very much in support of your good reasons
> ?to be baffled by the fact that it seems very difficult to get reliable
> quantitative
> data to start with? (didn't you realize this?).
> Needless to say, I am quite convinced of your competence and certainly did
> not
> intend to question or criticize it when taken up a single assertion of
> yours,
> yet *de facto* related to the thread addressing, the comparative aspects
> aside,
> an aporetic constellation (to recall Dagmar's formulation of the problem:
> ?My sense has always been that Sanskrit literature is particularly large,
> but perhaps this is not substantiated by data??).
> Be it in view of comparing it with the literatures of other pre-modern
> cultures
> or not, how can we assess the size of the pre-modern body of Sanskrit
> literature,
> in the first place? What are the valid data? How complex and problematic
> are these?
>
> Given printed books of Sanskrit works (unlike, e.g., Chinese or Tibetan
> printed works)
> first appear at the end of pre-modern times, these have no substantiating
> significance
> for the question at hand. Here we seem to agree, as on many other points,
> which you
> implicitly seem to confirm by repeatedly stating that things I asserted
> were already
> implied by you.
> Where we don't seem to agree, however, is the complex value of extant
> manuscripts
> as forming part of our valid data with regard to assessing the magnitude of
> pre-modern works composed (despite differences relative to genres &
> periods).
> That is, unless your statement ?I fail to see how this is relevant for a
> count of the
> works composed? was meant to suggest something else.
>
> Of course, as you say, ?what counts is the number of works composed,
> even if lost and known only through indirect transmission?, but where
> ? original Sanskrit works now extant only in the form of translations
> apart ?
> do you find references to works that are lost, or only available in the
> form
> of quotations, except in what is extant, either still unpublished in the
> form
> of manuscripts or already published on the basis of extant manuscripts?
> Here I have to disagree with your view that ?[i]t doesn?t matter how many
> manuscripts of a given text are extant, nor their condition or
> philological value?,
> because all these aspects may contribute to qualified insights with regard
> to
> the complexities when employing what is still extant in some form (be it
> only
> as a tiny fragment of a Turfan MS containing valuable references) to
> achieve
> greater clarity regarding the at least approximate totality of works
> composed in
> of pre-modern times, even if the data may only be valid for limited
> periods.
> Thus reemphasizing a number of aspects regarding these complexities
> was likewise meant as a means of refinement addressing mere speculations
> on the basis of educated guesses (Pingree was mentioned earlier) related to
> the vast quantities of MSS lying around in various parts of India (and
> abroad).
>
> Canonical works in translation (especially Chinese and Tibetan ones),
> while covering
> mainly specific areas of Buddhist literature, are another vast resource
> (largely unrelated
> to what today has survived in the form of Sanskrit MSS) for quantitative
> assessments,
> though not without problems as to what is authentic, what apocryphal (as
> has already
> been thematized from early on in respectively the Chinese and the Tibetan
> tradition).
>
> Admittedly, given the conditions of the Indian climate, a major problem
> contributing to uncertainties about the survival rate of works, once
> produced,
> in the form of extant MSS generated by means of lineages of transmission
> (as a fundamental conservative factor of Indian literary traditions) is
> our still
> insufficient knowledge of their rate of success (as specified in relation
> to various
> genres), which otherwise might help to provide us with some additional
> means
> for the extrapolation of useful data. That is, the higher the percentage
> of works
> we may assume to have been successfully transmitted from generation to
> generation
> the more significant is what has survived for a quantitative evaluation of
> what existed
> in an earlier period.
>
> That these lineages of textual transmission have generally disappeared
> nowadays,
> while it is unclear to what extent contemporary Indian institutional
> efforts of professional
> conservation may offer sufficiently adequate substitution, is another
> dilemma.
> (The working conditions of those who do care being an additional one.
> And if older catalogues forming part of the basis for producing the NCC
> may already have assumed advanced stages of decay [see photo attached;
> taken in 2015 on one of my visits to the University of Madras to get
> the newest volumes of the NCC], this raises the question of how much
> of the material listed in the *New Catalogus Catalogorum* actually still
> exists, or to what extent are the NCC references increasingly becoming
> fictive?).
>
> Best wishes for your research project on these topics,
>
> Hartmut
>
> .
>
>
>
> On Fri, Apr 21, 2017 at 2:29 PM, Camillo Formigatti <
> camillo.formigatti at bodleian.ox.ac.uk> wrote:
>
> Dear Colleagues,
>
>
>
> It seems that my replies have started a discussion in which what I
> intended to be simply short remarks without any intention of being precise
> or exhaustive, have been partly misinterpreted. I was simply pointing out
> my own, little personal experience and random thoughts on this matter.
>
>
>
> I will tackle each topic with a separate reply, for the sake of clarity.
>
>
>
> ??After all, his assertion (given with reference to ?estimates of the
> number
> of South Asian manuscripts?) that ?numbers again are simply telling us
> ?in an unreliable way?how many books have survived, not how many works
> were composed? is unfortunately not quite adequate;
> [?]  there is still this
> lingering implicit assumption that a manuscript may be equated with a
> work/book
> that needs to be radically discarded.??
>
>
>
> I thought that all this was implicit in what I wrote and did not need to
> be further explained, since I supposed I was writing to an audience of
> experts. I would be a very poor librarian and cataloguer of manuscripts
> indeed?not to say textual scholar?if I hadn?t already grasped this simple
> notion after more than a decade spent working with manuscripts and books at
> various levels.
>
>
>
>
>
> ??Not only do we all as Sanskrit scholars know that the production of a
> critical edition
> of a single work usually is based on a number of available manuscripts
> that in fact,
> depending on the work to be edited, may greatly vary from just a few to
> dozens (& more),
> but taking just a look at the *New Catalogus Catalogorum* immediately
> reveals an
> enormous variation regarding the proportion that exists between a given
> work and
> the amount of manuscripts transmitting it.
> [?]  as the case may be, crucial textual variants,
> insights into the given textual transmission, etc. ??
>
>
>
>
>
> I fail to see how this is relevant for a count of the works composed. It
> doesn?t matter how many manuscripts of a given text are extant, nor their
> condition or philological value, because what counts is the number of works
> composed, even if lost and known only through indirect transmission. This
> is precisely one?and I stress only one, lest somebody thinks I am
> oversimplifying?of the reasons why I said that the numbers of extant books
> (and I mean books, not only manuscripts, because I was dealing with printed
> books as well in my article) is not that useful for this type of
> assessment. I was simply suggesting a bibliographical reference, admittedly
> in a self-promoting way and albeit not quite relevant, we might argue.
> Still, I thought it could be a starting point to assess the supposed
> dimensions of Sanskrit literature vis-?-vis other literatures by using
> quantitative data at our disposal before applying for a grant to start a
> research project on the topic.
>
>
>
>
>
> ??On the other hand, huge texts, the more so when provided with a
> commentary,
> cannot be comprised by single manuscripts, even when complete.
> Presently engaged in describing a so-called *Pa**??**it Collection*
> (acquired by the Royal Library/Det Kongelige Bibliotek, Copenhagen, in
> 1924),
> I recall, just to give an example, that each of the 12 books (*skandha*)
> of the *Bh?gavatapur?**?**a* with ?r?dhara?s commentary *Bh?v?rthad?pik?*
> conveniently amounted to a separate manuscript. ??
>
>
>
> Same as above, this argument was implied in what I wrote and I thought it
> didn?t need to be expressed for this audience. Nevertheless, I would like
> to point out that given the very nature of South Asian books, which are
> (more often than not, again I am writing a short reply and I can?t be
> exhaustive) bundles of loose leaves, we should be more cautious in cases
> like this one and maybe consider whether these twelve volumes might were
> conceived as one single, multi-volume manuscript or not. I am not saying
> that this is the case for these specific set of 12 manuscripts of the
> Bhagavatapurana?after all, only the cataloguer can decide and I haven?t
> seen them?, I?m simply saying that obviously we faced similar challenges
> while cataloguing the Cambridge manuscripts. We learned very soon that
> things are often more complicated than we could ever imagine. How do we
> know that such volumes weren?t meant to be one single manuscript? If they
> were commissioned by one single person and written within a specific,
> limited timespan, using the same type of paper etc., then why don?t we
> consider them as one single manuscript? Is it because the hand changes
> between the volumes? Even in this case, they were still conceived as a
> single project, and sometimes in long manuscripts we see different scribes
> at work (the hand changes amid one single page, and I mean precisely page,
> not folio), and yet we catalogue them as a single manuscript. Is the
> foliation not continuous? If not, then we might think that these are indeed
> separate manuscripts. However, in the case of South Asian manuscritps, in
> my modest opinion the notion of single manuscript is blurred precisely
> because of the loose nature of the binding. Yet, there could be cases where
> even if the foliation restarts and the manuscripts are transmitted
> separately, they were probably conceived to be a single collection (
> https://cudl.lib.cam.ac.uk/view/MS-ADD-01709/1). Please note the fact
> that for these three manuscripts, there is a catch-number linking them, and
> yet we considered them as separate items and catalogued them accordingly.
> Did we make the right choice? I?m not sure, for in other cases we decided
> to group into one single manuscript, and thus one entry, manuscripts that
> somebody more knowledgeable than us, i.e. Cecil Bendall, catalogued as
> separate manuscripts, precisely because each part contained a different
> text (https://cudl.lib.cam.ac.uk/view/MS-ADD-01380-01381/1).
>
>
>
>
>
> ??Yet again, a given MS may likewise, easily in the case of *stotra*s,
> various kinds of
> ritual texts (and other textual genres), contain many more than just a
> single work.??
>
> I?m not sure we want to discuss this matter in a mailing list, because it
> would raise even more questions than we could easily answer. Again, we
> discussed similar cases at length in the Cambridge project and we took
> particular care in our catalogue to represent in a clear, yet precise way
> even very complex cases of multi-text, composite manuscripts, like this
> manuscript of the Astasahasrika (https://cudl.lib.cam.ac.uk/
> view/MS-ADD-01643/1). Please have a look also at this case of a
> multi-text collection of Avadanas: https://cudl.lib.cam.ac.uk/
> view/MS-ADD-01615/1, or again at this extreme case:
> https://cudl.lib.cam.ac.uk/view/MS-OR-02359/1. I will partly deal with
> this issue and our approach in the article on the history of the Cambridge
> collections I mentioned some time ago in the list.
>
>
>
>
>
> ??Neither should it be felt as particularly surprising when discovering
> that
> what at some time had been assembled (and put into an envelope), say, by
> an owner
> of a Sanskrit collection as if consisting in a single MS turns out, on
> closer inspection,
> to actually consist in numerous fragments of altogether heterogeneous
> character
> (in terms of textual sources, scribes, material quality, etc.).??
>
> We have dealt with a similar cases too, and I ought to repeat that this
> too was implicit in my very casual remark in my first e-mail on the topic.
>
>
>
>
>
> In other words, given also the published version of the hopefully ongoing
> project of
> the *New Catalogus Catalogorum* has (even with the future conclusion of
> the letter *h*)
> to be characterized as being, though already advanced, still only a
> preliminary assessment
> of what has survived, it seems quite important, when assessing the amount
> of
> pre-modern works in Sanskrit, to be aware of the fact that the relevant
> notion
> of ?manuscript? itself is considerably complex (on the empirical level of
> what is
> actually found in Sanskrit collections), thus turning the correlation
> between MSS
> and proper works into an highly problematic issue, if taken as a basis for
> quantitative
> estimates of the literary cultures expressed in the medium of that
> language.
>
> I believe we all agree with this statement and again, I thought all of
> what I wrote above was implicit in what I wrote in my first, brief reply.
>
>
>
> Best wishes,
>
>
>
> Camilllo
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
>
>
> Dr Camillo A. Formigatti
>
> John Clay Sanskrit Librarian
>
>
>
> Bodleian Libraries
>
> The Weston Library
>
> Broad Street
>
> Oxford
>
> OX1 3BG
>
>
>
> Email: camillo.formigatti at bodleian.ox.ac.uk
>
> Tel. (office): 01865 (2)77208
> www.bodleian.ox.ac.uk
>
>
>
> *From:* Hartmut Buescher [mailto:buescherhartmut at gmail.com]
> *Sent:* 20 April 2017 19:46
> *To:* Camillo Formigatti <camillo.formigatti at bodleian.ox.ac.uk>
> *Cc:* Dagmar Wujastyk <d.wujastyk at gmail.com>; indology <
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info>
>
>
> *Subject:* Re: [INDOLOGY] Sanskrit literature in numbers
>
>
>
> Some remarks in addition to Camillo?s reflections seem necessary,
> since there are further reasons ?to be baffled by the fact that it seems
> very difficult to get reliable quantitative data to start with?.
> After all, his assertion (given with reference to ?estimates of the number
> of South Asian manuscripts?) that ?numbers again are simply telling us
> ?in an unreliable way?how many books have survived, not how many works
> were composed? is unfortunately not quite adequate;
> and if rectified by saying at least ?in an extremely unreliable way?, as
> is unavoidable
> to do for someone familiar with collections of Sanskrit manuscripts, there
> is still this
> lingering implicit assumption that a manuscript may be equated with a
> work/book
> that needs to be radically discarded.
>
> Not only do we all as Sanskrit scholars know that the production of a
> critical edition
> of a single work usually is based on a number of available manuscripts
> that in fact,
> depending on the work to be edited, may greatly vary from just a few to
> dozens (& more),
> but taking just a look at the *New Catalogus Catalogorum* immediately
> reveals an
> enormous variation regarding the proportion that exists between a given
> work and
> the amount of manuscripts transmitting it.
> As to the notion of a ?manuscript? hereby, in lucky cases the given MS is
> complete.
> Frequently, however, if not most frequently (another uncertain proportion),
> it is fragmentary.
>
> Yet, of course, also fragmentary MSS (be it even one consisting in a
> single folio or less)
> must be principally regarded as being able to provide valid manuscript
> evidence,
> supportive readings and, as the case may be, crucial textual variants,
> insights into the given textual transmission, etc.
>
> On the other hand, huge texts, the more so when provided with a commentary,
> cannot be comprised by single manuscripts, even when complete.
> Presently engaged in describing a so-called *Pa**??**it Collection*
> (acquired by the Royal Library/Det Kongelige Bibliotek, Copenhagen, in
> 1924),
> I recall, just to give an example, that each of the 12 books (*skandha*)
> of the *Bh?gavatapur?**?**a* with ?r?dhara?s commentary *Bh?v?rthad?pik?*
> conveniently amounted to a separate manuscript.
>
> Yet again, a given MS may likewise, easily in the case of *stotra*s,
> various kinds of
> ritual texts (and other textual genres), contain many more than just a
> single work.
> Neither should it be felt as particularly surprising when discovering that
> what at some time had been assembled (and put into an envelope), say, by
> an owner
> of a Sanskrit collection as if consisting in a single MS turns out, on
> closer inspection,
> to actually consist in numerous fragments of altogether heterogeneous
> character
> (in terms of textual sources, scribes, material quality, etc.).
>
> Furthermore, to address the problem of quantification from yet another
> perspective,
> not all the MSS contained in a given collection (like the mentioned *Pa*
> *??**it Collection*)
> may a priori be counted as philologically ? implying philology to be a
> methodologically
> strict science untouched by either traditional naiveness or pretentious
> instances of
> post-modern clownery ? valid documents with justified claims of
> pertinently representing
> a given work: the numerous cases of orthographically somewhat uneducated
> scribes apart,
> a not all too great, but an uncertain (if tiny) percentage of MSS simply
> represents
> the work ? throwing tangible light on the sociological aspects of textual
> transmission ?
> consisting in the more or less clumsy writing exercises by pupils
> (typically found
> in the areas of both *?ruti* and *sm**?**ti*).
>
> In other words, given also the published version of the hopefully ongoing
> project of
> the *New Catalogus Catalogorum* has (even with the future conclusion of
> the letter *h*)
> to be characterized as being, though already advanced, still only a
> preliminary assessment
> of what has survived, it seems quite important, when assessing the amount
> of
> pre-modern works in Sanskrit, to be aware of the fact that the relevant
> notion
> of ?manuscript? itself is considerably complex (on the empirical level of
> what is
> actually found in Sanskrit collections), thus turning the correlation
> between MSS
> and proper works into an highly problematic issue, if taken as a basis for
> quantitative
> estimates of the literary cultures expressed in the medium of that
> language.
>
> Best wishes,
>
> Hartmut
>
> --------------------------------
> Hartmut Buescher, PhD,
> Research Librarian
> The Royal Danish Library, Copenhagen
> (Det Kongelige Bibiliotek)
> [http://www.kb.dk/en/index.html]
>
>
>
>
>
> On Thu, Apr 20, 2017 at 12:16 PM, Camillo Formigatti via INDOLOGY <
> indology at list.indology.info> wrote:
>
> Dear Dagmar,
>
>
>
> As to Latin and Greek literature, I believe that choosing a good
> periodization is difficult, if you want to do it for comparative purposes.
> Would you consider Byzantine Greek literature or not? If yes, then why not
> consider Latin literature from late antiquity, medieval times and
> Renaissance too?  Would it be on linguistic grounds? I think that then you
> would be forced to compare the periodization let?s say of South Asian or
> Central Asian history and the history of each language with that of Latin
> and Greek. Assuming we are talking also of scientific and technical
> literature, you would also face the issue of assessing the impact of the
> late diffusion of printing technology in South Asia and on the other hand
> how this phenomenon might have affected a possible increase in the
> composition of works in cultures were printing technology was employed
> early on, such as China and Japan, due to economic reasons. After all,
> printers and publishing houses wanted to sell more and more books, and in
> order to do it they had to publish something.
>
>
>
> In one of my articles I briefly touched upon the numbers of Latin, Greek,
> and vernacular languages manuscripts from the 6th to the 15th century as
> compared to various estimates of the number of South Asian manuscripts, but
> again, these numbers again are simply telling us?in an unreliable way?how
> many books have survived, not how many works were composed.
>
>
>
> I apologize for the long and unstructured reply, but lately I?ve been
> fascinated by questions like the one you asked, only to be baffled by the
> fact that it seems very difficult to get reliable quantitative data to
> start with.
>
>
>
> Best wishes,
>
>
>
> Camillo
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
>
>
> Dr Camillo A. Formigatti
>
> John Clay Sanskrit Librarian
>
>
>
> Bodleian Libraries
>
> The Weston Library
>
> Broad Street
>
> Oxford
>
> OX1 3BG
>
>
>
> Email: camillo.formigatti at bodleian.ox.ac.uk
>
> Tel. (office): 01865 (2)77208
> www.bodleian.ox.ac.uk
>
>
>
> *From:* Dagmar Wujastyk [mailto:d.wujastyk at gmail.com]
> *Sent:* 19 April 2017 17:32
> *To:* Camillo Formigatti <camillo.formigatti at bodleian.ox.ac.uk>
> *Cc:* indology <INDOLOGY at list.indology.info>
> *Subject:* Re: [INDOLOGY] Sanskrit literature in numbers
>
>
>
> Dear Camillo,
>
>
>
> I must admit I am a bit uncertain where to draw the line. Trying to
> quantify Latin literature, I think I would want total numbers that could
> then be split up in classical and then everything later? I am not sure what
> the cut off date would be.
>
>
>
> Best, Dagmar
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On 19 April 2017 at 10:19, Camillo Formigatti <
> camillo.formigatti at bodleian.ox.ac.uk> wrote:
>
> Dear Dagmar,
>
>
>
> This is a very interesting question indeed. May I add two other questions
> to it? Would you like to know the numbers of extant works only or the
> number of works in general, even if lost? Also, when you write Latin
> language, for instance, do you mean only classical Latin (whatever this
> might mean) or every work that has been written in Latin until today (and
> I?m not thinking of today?s Latin used in the Vatican, I was rather
> thinking of authors like the Italian poet Giovanni Pascoli (1855 ?1912),
> who wrote poems in Latin too)?
>
>
>
> Best wishes,
>
>
>
> Camillo
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
>
>
> Dr Camillo A. Formigatti
>
> John Clay Sanskrit Librarian
>
>
>
> Bodleian Libraries
>
> The Weston Library
>
> Broad Street
>
> Oxford
>
> OX1 3BG
>
>
>
> Email: camillo.formigatti at bodleian.ox.ac.uk
>
> Tel. (office): 01865 <01%20865> (2)77208
> www.bodleian.ox.ac.uk
>
>
>
> *From:* Dagmar Wujastyk [mailto:d.wujastyk at gmail.com]
> *Sent:* 19 April 2017 16:53
> *To:* indology <INDOLOGY at list.indology.info>
> *Subject:* [INDOLOGY] Sanskrit literature in numbers
>
>
>
> Dear colleagues,
>
>
>
> Might anyone be able to point me to a publication/data on the relative
> quantities of Sanskrit works and other pre-modern works in languages such
> as Latin, Chinese, Tamil, Arabic or Persian?
>
>
>
> We all know that there is a very large body of Sanskrit literature, but
> how does the number of Sanskrit works compare to works written in other
> languages? My sense has always been that Sanskrit literature is
> particularly large, but perhaps this is not substantiated by data?
>
>
>
> Best wishes,
>
> Dagmar Wujastyk
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
> committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
> unsubscribe)
>
>
>
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>


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From camillo.formigatti at bodleian.ox.ac.uk  Mon Apr 24 12:29:49 2017
From: camillo.formigatti at bodleian.ox.ac.uk (Camillo Formigatti)
Date: Mon, 24 Apr 17 12:29:49 +0000
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Sanskrit literature in numbers
In-Reply-To: <CAGsvHi9oMnMDXQb4PPYgE1_r+0eu2YAOrEjbbp7XtTnTd07Utg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <0C647B6E904DBB4BAD3A28D522DC73151DA6BD06@MBX05.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk>

Dear Hartmut,

Many thanks for the very swift reply.

I have to confess that I do not understand why you are still replying to my e-mails. I totally agree with all your assessments and I do not see why you seem not to understand it. We all know how difficult it is to work with manuscripts, therefore I expected a more relaxed environment in which to exchange opinions.

As to my article on the history of Sanskrit print, I do not understand what you mean by Shaw-related. I obviously rely on the research of previous scholars, as everybody else does in every field of research. I think this is the spirit of research. I have consulted your catalogue of Sanskrit manuscripts several times and I find it a very useful and good resource.

As to the place and time where and when to have scholarly discussions, you?d be amazed to know that again, I totally agree with you on this one as well. I think that the Indology list is one of the best places to have these type of discussions and this is why I dared to reply to Dagmar Wujastyk?s question.

On the other hand, please forgive me if I felt that we were not having a discussion, but you were trying to convince me that I am wrong about everything. If this is not the case, then I deeply apologize for having misunderstood your intentions. If you are still interested, we can continue our discussion off-line, I?d be more than happy to exchange views with a fellow colleague on the very fascinating issues that you raised.

Best wishes,

Camillo


________________________________

Dr Camillo A. Formigatti
John Clay Sanskrit Librarian

Bodleian Libraries
The Weston Library
Broad Street
Oxford
OX1 3BG

Email: camillo.formigatti at bodleian.ox.ac.uk<mailto:camillo.formigatti at bodleian.ox.ac.uk>
Tel. (office): 01865 (2)77208
www.bodleian.ox.ac.uk<http://www.bodleian.ox.ac.uk/>

From: Hartmut Buescher [mailto:buescherhartmut at gmail.com]
Sent: 24 April 2017 12:56
To: Camillo Formigatti <camillo.formigatti at bodleian.ox.ac.uk>
Cc: Dagmar Wujastyk <d.wujastyk at gmail.com>; indology <INDOLOGY at list.indology.info>; Dominik Wujastyk <wujastyk at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] Sanskrit literature in numbers

>P.S. One small point though: there are printed Sanskrit texts much older than you think.

Your own recent Shaw-related assessment (?A Bird?s Eye View of Sanskrit Print Culture?),
being in this respect similar to the one in Dominik Wujastyk?s (?Indian Manuscripts?, 2011:3f.) short overview (unfortunately omitting any reference to VOHD) represents also
my state of awareness.

> I believe research publications in every form are the best of way of conveying one?s own
research and ideas, surely not a mailing list.

Without wishing to defend my vices, this rather socio-historical and politico-philosophical
issue of the context-related relative merit/benefit for the production and/or provocation of
insights that contrasts institutional normativity with spontaneous alterity is indeed not suitable to be addressed within the framework of this thread.

All the best, just another Cracking Sound


On Mon, Apr 24, 2017 at 11:25 AM, Camillo Formigatti <camillo.formigatti at bodleian.ox.ac.uk<mailto:camillo.formigatti at bodleian.ox.ac.uk>> wrote:
Dear Hartmut,

Many thanks for the very long and detailed reply.

Unfortunately, as I have repeated many times even in my last e-mail, I do not think that this list is the correct arena to tackle huge problems such as the periodization of Sanskrit literature, the definition of what is a text and many others that you raised?including the definition of what is a manuscript.

At the cost of sounding like a broken record, I constantly deal every day with such questions and I usually think it is better to work slowly and examine as much primary material as possible, before being able to say anything meaningful. It is for this reason that I believe research publications in every form are the best of way of conveying one?s own research and ideas, surely not a mailing list.

I believe it is better if we both go back to our wonderful manuscript collections and continue to catalogue them to the best of our knowledge for the sake of research.

Best wishes,

Camillo

P.S. One small point though: there are printed Sanskrit texts much older than you think.


________________________________

Dr Camillo A. Formigatti
John Clay Sanskrit Librarian

Bodleian Libraries
The Weston Library
Broad Street
Oxford
OX1 3BG

Email: camillo.formigatti at bodleian.ox.ac.uk<mailto:camillo.formigatti at bodleian.ox.ac.uk>
Tel. (office): 01865 (2)77208
www.bodleian.ox.ac.uk<http://www.bodleian.ox.ac.uk/>

From: Hartmut Buescher [mailto:buescherhartmut at gmail.com<mailto:buescherhartmut at gmail.com>]
Sent: 22 April 2017 09:38
To: Camillo Formigatti <camillo.formigatti at bodleian.ox.ac.uk<mailto:camillo.formigatti at bodleian.ox.ac.uk>>
Cc: Dagmar Wujastyk <d.wujastyk at gmail.com<mailto:d.wujastyk at gmail.com>>; indology <INDOLOGY at list.indology.info<mailto:INDOLOGY at list.indology.info>>; Dominik Wujastyk <wujastyk at gmail.com<mailto:wujastyk at gmail.com>>

Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] Sanskrit literature in numbers

Dear Camillo,

felt reminded that Gadamer once said, ?dass man anders versteht,
wenn man ?berhaupt versteht? (?that one understands differently,
in the case one understands at all?), an assertion that reflects the condition
for dialectical processes of insight to take place at all, both at larger cultural
historical scales as well as in discussions like the present one.
Understanding differently is not the same as misinterpretation,
it is a conditio humana.
As already said, although still regarding your assertion that the numbers
of manuscripts ?are simply telling us ... how many books have survived? as,
let's say, a formulation that does not escape from being understood the way I did,
my point has been to reemphasize the nature of actual complexities (and your
response has partly been to delightfully further enhance the vision of these), while
having basically expressed myself very much in support of your good reasons
?to be baffled by the fact that it seems very difficult to get reliable quantitative
data to start with? (didn't you realize this?).
Needless to say, I am quite convinced of your competence and certainly did not
intend to question or criticize it when taken up a single assertion of yours,
yet de facto related to the thread addressing, the comparative aspects aside,
an aporetic constellation (to recall Dagmar's formulation of the problem:
?My sense has always been that Sanskrit literature is particularly large,
but perhaps this is not substantiated by data??).
Be it in view of comparing it with the literatures of other pre-modern cultures
or not, how can we assess the size of the pre-modern body of Sanskrit literature,
in the first place? What are the valid data? How complex and problematic are these?

Given printed books of Sanskrit works (unlike, e.g., Chinese or Tibetan printed works)
first appear at the end of pre-modern times, these have no substantiating significance
for the question at hand. Here we seem to agree, as on many other points, which you
implicitly seem to confirm by repeatedly stating that things I asserted were already
implied by you.
Where we don't seem to agree, however, is the complex value of extant manuscripts
as forming part of our valid data with regard to assessing the magnitude of
pre-modern works composed (despite differences relative to genres & periods).
That is, unless your statement ?I fail to see how this is relevant for a count of the
works composed? was meant to suggest something else.

Of course, as you say, ?what counts is the number of works composed,
even if lost and known only through indirect transmission?, but where
? original Sanskrit works now extant only in the form of translations apart ?
do you find references to works that are lost, or only available in the form
of quotations, except in what is extant, either still unpublished in the form
of manuscripts or already published on the basis of extant manuscripts?
Here I have to disagree with your view that ?[i]t doesn?t matter how many
manuscripts of a given text are extant, nor their condition or philological value?,
because all these aspects may contribute to qualified insights with regard to
the complexities when employing what is still extant in some form (be it only
as a tiny fragment of a Turfan MS containing valuable references) to achieve
greater clarity regarding the at least approximate totality of works composed in
of pre-modern times, even if the data may only be valid for limited periods.
Thus reemphasizing a number of aspects regarding these complexities
was likewise meant as a means of refinement addressing mere speculations
on the basis of educated guesses (Pingree was mentioned earlier) related to
the vast quantities of MSS lying around in various parts of India (and abroad).

Canonical works in translation (especially Chinese and Tibetan ones), while covering
mainly specific areas of Buddhist literature, are another vast resource (largely unrelated
to what today has survived in the form of Sanskrit MSS) for quantitative assessments,
though not without problems as to what is authentic, what apocryphal (as has already
been thematized from early on in respectively the Chinese and the Tibetan tradition).

Admittedly, given the conditions of the Indian climate, a major problem
contributing to uncertainties about the survival rate of works, once produced,
in the form of extant MSS generated by means of lineages of transmission
(as a fundamental conservative factor of Indian literary traditions) is our still
insufficient knowledge of their rate of success (as specified in relation to various
genres), which otherwise might help to provide us with some additional means
for the extrapolation of useful data. That is, the higher the percentage of works
we may assume to have been successfully transmitted from generation to generation
the more significant is what has survived for a quantitative evaluation of what existed
in an earlier period.

That these lineages of textual transmission have generally disappeared nowadays,
while it is unclear to what extent contemporary Indian institutional efforts of professional
conservation may offer sufficiently adequate substitution, is another dilemma.
(The working conditions of those who do care being an additional one.
And if older catalogues forming part of the basis for producing the NCC
may already have assumed advanced stages of decay [see photo attached;
taken in 2015 on one of my visits to the University of Madras to get
the newest volumes of the NCC], this raises the question of how much
of the material listed in the New Catalogus Catalogorum actually still
exists, or to what extent are the NCC references increasingly becoming fictive?).

Best wishes for your research project on these topics,

Hartmut

.

On Fri, Apr 21, 2017 at 2:29 PM, Camillo Formigatti <camillo.formigatti at bodleian.ox.ac.uk<mailto:camillo.formigatti at bodleian.ox.ac.uk>> wrote:
Dear Colleagues,

It seems that my replies have started a discussion in which what I intended to be simply short remarks without any intention of being precise or exhaustive, have been partly misinterpreted. I was simply pointing out my own, little personal experience and random thoughts on this matter.

I will tackle each topic with a separate reply, for the sake of clarity.

??After all, his assertion (given with reference to ?estimates of the number
of South Asian manuscripts?) that ?numbers again are simply telling us
?in an unreliable way?how many books have survived, not how many works
were composed? is unfortunately not quite adequate;
[?]  there is still this
lingering implicit assumption that a manuscript may be equated with a work/book
that needs to be radically discarded.??

I thought that all this was implicit in what I wrote and did not need to be further explained, since I supposed I was writing to an audience of experts. I would be a very poor librarian and cataloguer of manuscripts indeed?not to say textual scholar?if I hadn?t already grasped this simple notion after more than a decade spent working with manuscripts and books at various levels.


??Not only do we all as Sanskrit scholars know that the production of a critical edition
of a single work usually is based on a number of available manuscripts that in fact,
depending on the work to be edited, may greatly vary from just a few to dozens (& more),
but taking just a look at the New Catalogus Catalogorum immediately reveals an
enormous variation regarding the proportion that exists between a given work and
the amount of manuscripts transmitting it.
[?]  as the case may be, crucial textual variants,
insights into the given textual transmission, etc. ??


I fail to see how this is relevant for a count of the works composed. It doesn?t matter how many manuscripts of a given text are extant, nor their condition or philological value, because what counts is the number of works composed, even if lost and known only through indirect transmission. This is precisely one?and I stress only one, lest somebody thinks I am oversimplifying?of the reasons why I said that the numbers of extant books (and I mean books, not only manuscripts, because I was dealing with printed books as well in my article) is not that useful for this type of assessment. I was simply suggesting a bibliographical reference, admittedly in a self-promoting way and albeit not quite relevant, we might argue. Still, I thought it could be a starting point to assess the supposed dimensions of Sanskrit literature vis-?-vis other literatures by using quantitative data at our disposal before applying for a grant to start a research project on the topic.


??On the other hand, huge texts, the more so when provided with a commentary,
cannot be comprised by single manuscripts, even when complete.
Presently engaged in describing a so-called Pa??it Collection
(acquired by the Royal Library/Det Kongelige Bibliotek, Copenhagen, in 1924),
I recall, just to give an example, that each of the 12 books (skandha)
of the Bh?gavatapur??a with ?r?dhara?s commentary Bh?v?rthad?pik?
conveniently amounted to a separate manuscript. ??

Same as above, this argument was implied in what I wrote and I thought it didn?t need to be expressed for this audience. Nevertheless, I would like to point out that given the very nature of South Asian books, which are (more often than not, again I am writing a short reply and I can?t be exhaustive) bundles of loose leaves, we should be more cautious in cases like this one and maybe consider whether these twelve volumes might were conceived as one single, multi-volume manuscript or not. I am not saying that this is the case for these specific set of 12 manuscripts of the Bhagavatapurana?after all, only the cataloguer can decide and I haven?t seen them?, I?m simply saying that obviously we faced similar challenges while cataloguing the Cambridge manuscripts. We learned very soon that things are often more complicated than we could ever imagine. How do we know that such volumes weren?t meant to be one single manuscript? If they were commissioned by one single person and written within a specific, limited timespan, using the same type of paper etc., then why don?t we consider them as one single manuscript? Is it because the hand changes between the volumes? Even in this case, they were still conceived as a single project, and sometimes in long manuscripts we see different scribes at work (the hand changes amid one single page, and I mean precisely page, not folio), and yet we catalogue them as a single manuscript. Is the foliation not continuous? If not, then we might think that these are indeed separate manuscripts. However, in the case of South Asian manuscritps, in my modest opinion the notion of single manuscript is blurred precisely because of the loose nature of the binding. Yet, there could be cases where even if the foliation restarts and the manuscripts are transmitted separately, they were probably conceived to be a single collection (https://cudl.lib.cam.ac.uk/view/MS-ADD-01709/1). Please note the fact that for these three manuscripts, there is a catch-number linking them, and yet we considered them as separate items and catalogued them accordingly. Did we make the right choice? I?m not sure, for in other cases we decided to group into one single manuscript, and thus one entry, manuscripts that somebody more knowledgeable than us, i.e. Cecil Bendall, catalogued as separate manuscripts, precisely because each part contained a different text (https://cudl.lib.cam.ac.uk/view/MS-ADD-01380-01381/1).


??Yet again, a given MS may likewise, easily in the case of stotras, various kinds of
ritual texts (and other textual genres), contain many more than just a single work.??
I?m not sure we want to discuss this matter in a mailing list, because it would raise even more questions than we could easily answer. Again, we discussed similar cases at length in the Cambridge project and we took particular care in our catalogue to represent in a clear, yet precise way even very complex cases of multi-text, composite manuscripts, like this manuscript of the Astasahasrika (https://cudl.lib.cam.ac.uk/view/MS-ADD-01643/1). Please have a look also at this case of a multi-text collection of Avadanas: https://cudl.lib.cam.ac.uk/view/MS-ADD-01615/1, or again at this extreme case: https://cudl.lib.cam.ac.uk/view/MS-OR-02359/1. I will partly deal with this issue and our approach in the article on the history of the Cambridge collections I mentioned some time ago in the list.


??Neither should it be felt as particularly surprising when discovering that
what at some time had been assembled (and put into an envelope), say, by an owner
of a Sanskrit collection as if consisting in a single MS turns out, on closer inspection,
to actually consist in numerous fragments of altogether heterogeneous character
(in terms of textual sources, scribes, material quality, etc.).??
We have dealt with a similar cases too, and I ought to repeat that this too was implicit in my very casual remark in my first e-mail on the topic.


In other words, given also the published version of the hopefully ongoing project of
the New Catalogus Catalogorum has (even with the future conclusion of the letter h)
to be characterized as being, though already advanced, still only a preliminary assessment
of what has survived, it seems quite important, when assessing the amount of
pre-modern works in Sanskrit, to be aware of the fact that the relevant notion
of ?manuscript? itself is considerably complex (on the empirical level of what is
actually found in Sanskrit collections), thus turning the correlation between MSS
and proper works into an highly problematic issue, if taken as a basis for quantitative
estimates of the literary cultures expressed in the medium of that language.

I believe we all agree with this statement and again, I thought all of what I wrote above was implicit in what I wrote in my first, brief reply.

Best wishes,

Camilllo


________________________________

Dr Camillo A. Formigatti
John Clay Sanskrit Librarian

Bodleian Libraries
The Weston Library
Broad Street
Oxford
OX1 3BG

Email: camillo.formigatti at bodleian.ox.ac.uk<mailto:camillo.formigatti at bodleian.ox.ac.uk>
Tel. (office): 01865 (2)77208
www.bodleian.ox.ac.uk<http://www.bodleian.ox.ac.uk/>

From: Hartmut Buescher [mailto:buescherhartmut at gmail.com<mailto:buescherhartmut at gmail.com>]
Sent: 20 April 2017 19:46
To: Camillo Formigatti <camillo.formigatti at bodleian.ox.ac.uk<mailto:camillo.formigatti at bodleian.ox.ac.uk>>
Cc: Dagmar Wujastyk <d.wujastyk at gmail.com<mailto:d.wujastyk at gmail.com>>; indology <INDOLOGY at list.indology.info<mailto:INDOLOGY at list.indology.info>>

Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] Sanskrit literature in numbers

Some remarks in addition to Camillo?s reflections seem necessary,
since there are further reasons ?to be baffled by the fact that it seems
very difficult to get reliable quantitative data to start with?.
After all, his assertion (given with reference to ?estimates of the number
of South Asian manuscripts?) that ?numbers again are simply telling us
?in an unreliable way?how many books have survived, not how many works
were composed? is unfortunately not quite adequate;
and if rectified by saying at least ?in an extremely unreliable way?, as is unavoidable
to do for someone familiar with collections of Sanskrit manuscripts, there is still this
lingering implicit assumption that a manuscript may be equated with a work/book
that needs to be radically discarded.

Not only do we all as Sanskrit scholars know that the production of a critical edition
of a single work usually is based on a number of available manuscripts that in fact,
depending on the work to be edited, may greatly vary from just a few to dozens (& more),
but taking just a look at the New Catalogus Catalogorum immediately reveals an
enormous variation regarding the proportion that exists between a given work and
the amount of manuscripts transmitting it.
As to the notion of a ?manuscript? hereby, in lucky cases the given MS is complete.
Frequently, however, if not most frequently (another uncertain proportion),
it is fragmentary.

Yet, of course, also fragmentary MSS (be it even one consisting in a single folio or less)
must be principally regarded as being able to provide valid manuscript evidence,
supportive readings and, as the case may be, crucial textual variants,
insights into the given textual transmission, etc.

On the other hand, huge texts, the more so when provided with a commentary,
cannot be comprised by single manuscripts, even when complete.
Presently engaged in describing a so-called Pa??it Collection
(acquired by the Royal Library/Det Kongelige Bibliotek, Copenhagen, in 1924),
I recall, just to give an example, that each of the 12 books (skandha)
of the Bh?gavatapur??a with ?r?dhara?s commentary Bh?v?rthad?pik?
conveniently amounted to a separate manuscript.

Yet again, a given MS may likewise, easily in the case of stotras, various kinds of
ritual texts (and other textual genres), contain many more than just a single work.
Neither should it be felt as particularly surprising when discovering that
what at some time had been assembled (and put into an envelope), say, by an owner
of a Sanskrit collection as if consisting in a single MS turns out, on closer inspection,
to actually consist in numerous fragments of altogether heterogeneous character
(in terms of textual sources, scribes, material quality, etc.).

Furthermore, to address the problem of quantification from yet another perspective,
not all the MSS contained in a given collection (like the mentioned Pa??it Collection)
may a priori be counted as philologically ? implying philology to be a methodologically
strict science untouched by either traditional naiveness or pretentious instances of
post-modern clownery ? valid documents with justified claims of pertinently representing
a given work: the numerous cases of orthographically somewhat uneducated scribes apart,
a not all too great, but an uncertain (if tiny) percentage of MSS simply represents
the work ? throwing tangible light on the sociological aspects of textual transmission ?
consisting in the more or less clumsy writing exercises by pupils (typically found
in the areas of both ?ruti and sm?ti).

In other words, given also the published version of the hopefully ongoing project of
the New Catalogus Catalogorum has (even with the future conclusion of the letter h)
to be characterized as being, though already advanced, still only a preliminary assessment
of what has survived, it seems quite important, when assessing the amount of
pre-modern works in Sanskrit, to be aware of the fact that the relevant notion
of ?manuscript? itself is considerably complex (on the empirical level of what is
actually found in Sanskrit collections), thus turning the correlation between MSS
and proper works into an highly problematic issue, if taken as a basis for quantitative
estimates of the literary cultures expressed in the medium of that language.

Best wishes,

Hartmut

--------------------------------
Hartmut Buescher, PhD,
Research Librarian
The Royal Danish Library, Copenhagen
(Det Kongelige Bibiliotek)
[http://www.kb.dk/en/index.html]



On Thu, Apr 20, 2017 at 12:16 PM, Camillo Formigatti via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info<mailto:indology at list.indology.info>> wrote:
Dear Dagmar,

As to Latin and Greek literature, I believe that choosing a good periodization is difficult, if you want to do it for comparative purposes. Would you consider Byzantine Greek literature or not? If yes, then why not consider Latin literature from late antiquity, medieval times and Renaissance too?  Would it be on linguistic grounds? I think that then you would be forced to compare the periodization let?s say of South Asian or Central Asian history and the history of each language with that of Latin and Greek. Assuming we are talking also of scientific and technical literature, you would also face the issue of assessing the impact of the late diffusion of printing technology in South Asia and on the other hand how this phenomenon might have affected a possible increase in the composition of works in cultures were printing technology was employed early on, such as China and Japan, due to economic reasons. After all, printers and publishing houses wanted to sell more and more books, and in order to do it they had to publish something.

In one of my articles I briefly touched upon the numbers of Latin, Greek, and vernacular languages manuscripts from the 6th to the 15th century as compared to various estimates of the number of South Asian manuscripts, but again, these numbers again are simply telling us?in an unreliable way?how many books have survived, not how many works were composed.

I apologize for the long and unstructured reply, but lately I?ve been fascinated by questions like the one you asked, only to be baffled by the fact that it seems very difficult to get reliable quantitative data to start with.

Best wishes,

Camillo

________________________________

Dr Camillo A. Formigatti
John Clay Sanskrit Librarian

Bodleian Libraries
The Weston Library
Broad Street
Oxford
OX1 3BG

Email: camillo.formigatti at bodleian.ox.ac.uk<mailto:camillo.formigatti at bodleian.ox.ac.uk>
Tel. (office): 01865 (2)77208
www.bodleian.ox.ac.uk<http://www.bodleian.ox.ac.uk/>

From: Dagmar Wujastyk [mailto:d.wujastyk at gmail.com<mailto:d.wujastyk at gmail.com>]
Sent: 19 April 2017 17:32
To: Camillo Formigatti <camillo.formigatti at bodleian.ox.ac.uk<mailto:camillo.formigatti at bodleian.ox.ac.uk>>
Cc: indology <INDOLOGY at list.indology.info<mailto:INDOLOGY at list.indology.info>>
Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] Sanskrit literature in numbers

Dear Camillo,

I must admit I am a bit uncertain where to draw the line. Trying to quantify Latin literature, I think I would want total numbers that could then be split up in classical and then everything later? I am not sure what the cut off date would be.

Best, Dagmar



On 19 April 2017 at 10:19, Camillo Formigatti <camillo.formigatti at bodleian.ox.ac.uk<mailto:camillo.formigatti at bodleian.ox.ac.uk>> wrote:
Dear Dagmar,

This is a very interesting question indeed. May I add two other questions to it? Would you like to know the numbers of extant works only or the number of works in general, even if lost? Also, when you write Latin language, for instance, do you mean only classical Latin (whatever this might mean) or every work that has been written in Latin until today (and I?m not thinking of today?s Latin used in the Vatican, I was rather thinking of authors like the Italian poet Giovanni Pascoli (1855 ?1912), who wrote poems in Latin too)?

Best wishes,

Camillo


________________________________

Dr Camillo A. Formigatti
John Clay Sanskrit Librarian

Bodleian Libraries
The Weston Library
Broad Street
Oxford
OX1 3BG

Email: camillo.formigatti at bodleian.ox.ac.uk<mailto:camillo.formigatti at bodleian.ox.ac.uk>
Tel. (office): 01865<tel:01%20865> (2)77208
www.bodleian.ox.ac.uk<http://www.bodleian.ox.ac.uk/>

From: Dagmar Wujastyk [mailto:d.wujastyk at gmail.com<mailto:d.wujastyk at gmail.com>]
Sent: 19 April 2017 16:53
To: indology <INDOLOGY at list.indology.info<mailto:INDOLOGY at list.indology.info>>
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Sanskrit literature in numbers

Dear colleagues,

Might anyone be able to point me to a publication/data on the relative quantities of Sanskrit works and other pre-modern works in languages such as Latin, Chinese, Tamil, Arabic or Persian?

We all know that there is a very large body of Sanskrit literature, but how does the number of Sanskrit works compare to works written in other languages? My sense has always been that Sanskrit literature is particularly large, but perhaps this is not substantiated by data?

Best wishes,
Dagmar Wujastyk


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From Bradley.Clough at mso.umt.edu  Mon Apr 24 20:12:45 2017
From: Bradley.Clough at mso.umt.edu (Clough, Bradley)
Date: Mon, 24 Apr 17 20:12:45 +0000
Subject: [INDOLOGY] IMPORTANT on NEH and AIIS Funding & Budget!
Message-ID: <A889E2F9-570B-436C-BE01-CEE1B7FABA04@mso.umt.edu>

Dear Colleagues,

Please see below the important message from AIIS President Philip Lutgendorf.

Thanks,
Brad

Dr. Bradley S. Clough
Global Humanities and Religions
LA 101
The University of Montana
32 Campus Drive
Missoula, MT 59812

bradley.clough at mso.umt.edu<mailto:bradley.clough at mso.umt.edu>
Phone: 406-243-2837
Fax: 406-243-4076
??????????????????????????????????????????????????????

(Kindly circulate this as widely as possible among South Asia scholars. I urge you to act!  Thanks, Philip)

From: Elise Auerbach <aiis at uchicago.edu<mailto:aiis at uchicago.edu>>
Date: Thursday, April 13, 2017 at 2:24 PM
Subject: Urgent request from AIIS President to all South Asia scholars

Dear colleagues and friends of AIIS,

As you probably know, the budget proposal before Congress, if approved in its present form, would have a severe impact on nearly all international education programs in our country. It would drastically reduce funding available for research fellowships, foreign language training, and most forms of educational exchange. Needless to say, it would be a terrible blow to AIIS and other American Overseas Research Centers (AORCs).

I am asking you to write, as soon as possible, to your congressional representatives and to request them to restore funding to NEH, the Department of State?s ECA Bureau, and the Department of Education. A draft letter is provided below.

The money involved is, in the perspective of the federal budget, trifling ? less (needless to say) than a few presidential weekends in Florida. But with it, we scholars pursue a great range of activities that advance international understanding.

You are accustomed to receiving urgent appeals and to being told of "funding crises? ? but this one is worse. The Director of the Council of American Overseas Research Centers calls it ?the fight of our lives.? It is also the fight FOR our academic lives and for all that we do. Congress can easily restore these paltry funding lines. Please make your voice heard urging it to do so.

Gratefully,

Philip Lutgendorf
President, AIIS

Dear XXXX

    I am writing to express my strong support for two federal programs that fund the activities of the American Institute of Indian Studies (AIIS). Specifically, AIIS receives funding from the Bureau of Educational and Cultural Affairs at the Department of State and from the Department of Education's Title VI international programs. These very modest appropriations support a great range of activities that include language training for US scholars in critical languages of India, Pakistan, and Bangladesh, and research programs that promote international understanding and goodwill. The Trump Administration has proposed to severely cut these programs in both Fiscal Years 2017 and 2018.  The survival of AIIS depends on the continuation of both programs.  Please do all you can to see that both continue to receive at least their present level of funding.

[OPTIONAL: a paragraph about the connection of the writer--like, "AIIS programs support the activities of students and faculty at [NAME OF YOUR INSTITUTION] and greatly enhance my own teaching and research. (etc.)]

    As you know, strategic ties with India are growing and international cooperation on issues of trade, terrorism and security are more important than ever. Now is not the time to cut off academic contacts. Instead the US should be facilitating more interactions between US scholars, students and educational institutions with their counterparts in the world?s largest democracy. These programs not only benefit our entire country but also the students, teachers, and colleges and universities in [NAME OF YOUR STATE].

     Again, I urge you in the strongest terms: please do all you can to see that the international exchange programs of the Departments of State and Education receive level funding in both FY 2017 and 2018.

     Thank you for your attention to this matter..

Sincerely,






From martingansten at gmail.com  Mon Apr 24 20:19:27 2017
From: martingansten at gmail.com (Martin Gansten)
Date: Mon, 24 Apr 17 21:19:27 +0100
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Female name Bhaayi?
In-Reply-To: <92115B9C-60F5-4096-A2E4-BBFCAF1823F9@uclouvain.be>
Message-ID: <CABwJhkU-Okk4tkbYHq07x_98txBvfiRb5dbbT80u4rD=92PV5A@mail.gmail.com>

Thank you, Christophe. This is still a bit different, though, from North
Indian manuscripts reading bh?yi for an expected b?? (no transcription
involved).

Martin


On 24 April 2017 at 10:50, Christophe Vielle <christophe.vielle at uclouvain.be
> wrote:

> For an example of Malayalam (and I suppose Sanskrit) writing bh?yi for
> what is transcribed in English "Bayi"
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gowri_Lakshmi_Bayi
> https://ml.wikipedia.org/wiki/???????_???????_????_???????????
>


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From jon.peterson at mail.utoronto.ca  Tue Apr 25 02:06:44 2017
From: jon.peterson at mail.utoronto.ca (Jonathan Peterson)
Date: Tue, 25 Apr 17 02:06:44 +0000
Subject: =?utf-8?Q?[INDOLOGY]_The_Significance_of_the_I=E1=B9=85gud=C4=AB_Tree=3F?=
Message-ID: <5E1B7361-006F-4E97-82A3-EB717EEB7230@mail.utoronto.ca>

Dear all,

I?m curious about the significance of the I?gud? tree (Balanites roxburghii?) and how the translator of the Majma? al-Bahrain might choose this tree in particular as a stand-in for the ?blessed olive tree? (shajaratin mub?rakatin zaytunat). D?r? Shikoh in the Majma? al-Bahrain, section IX, tells of the similarity between the light of Brahman (brahmaprak??a) and the light of God using Qur??n 24.35, the famous ?yat an-n?r, as a metaphor. As the Qur??n says:

"'God is the light of the heavens and the earth; the likeness of His light is as a niche wherein is a lamp - the lamp in a glass, the glass as it were a glittering star - kindled from a blessed tree, an olive that is neither of the East nor of the West whose oil well-nigh would shine, even if no fire touched it; light upon light. God guides to His light whom He wills. And God strikes similes for men, and God has knowledge of everything.? (Q24:35)

The olive tree and its fruit have broader significance in Islamic mystical literature, and D?r? Shikoh holds fast to the olive tree to complete his metaphor. The Sanskrit translation of the Majma? al-Bahrain, the Samudrasa?gama?, renders the ?yat an-n?r fairly faithfully, but substitutes the I?gud? tree, fruit, and oil for the olive tree. The Sanskrit reads as follows:

"tad uktam asmadvede ?uddha? brahma prak??a? p?thivy?k??ayo? sa? prak??o yath? gav?k?ad?pa? k?cagha??madhye k?cagha?? ca prak???aprak??at?r?vat prak??ate sa d?pa? prajv?lita i?gud?phalatailena sa ce?gud?v?k?? na p?rve na v? pa?cime / nika?e tu ?obham?ne?gud?taila? prak??ate vin?gnisa?yogena / prak??asyopari prak??a? / m?rga? j??payati parame?vara? svaprak??asya yam icchati"

As far as I know, the I?gud? fruit and oil have medicinal uses, but I?m wondering if anywhere it takes on broader mystical or metaphysical significance like the olive tree does for certain mystical Abrahamic traditions.

Thanks a lot,

Jonathan Peterson
Department for the Study of Religion
Centre for South Asian Studies
University of Toronto



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From mmdesh at umich.edu  Tue Apr 25 02:27:21 2017
From: mmdesh at umich.edu (Madhav Deshpande)
Date: Mon, 24 Apr 17 22:27:21 -0400
Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_[INDOLOGY]=09The_Significance_of_the_I=E1=B9=85gud=C4=AB_Tree=3F?=
In-Reply-To: <5E1B7361-006F-4E97-82A3-EB717EEB7230@mail.utoronto.ca>
Message-ID: <CAB3-dzfU5c_MqU010_9RrDRkktM-Cdku=v4VTyUnkx+Dd26b7Q@mail.gmail.com>

Dear Jonathan,

     Is this Samudrasa?gama? available as a pdf?  If so, can you send it to
me.  Looks fascinating.

Madhav Deshpande

On Mon, Apr 24, 2017 at 10:06 PM, Jonathan Peterson via INDOLOGY <
indology at list.indology.info> wrote:

> Dear all,
>
> I?m curious about the significance of the I?gud? tree (Balanites
> roxburghii?) and how the translator of the Majma? al-Bahrain might choose
> this tree in particular as a stand-in for the ?blessed olive tree?
> (shajaratin mub?rakatin zaytunat). D?r? Shikoh in the Majma? al-Bahrain,
> section IX, tells of the similarity between the light of Brahman
> (brahmaprak??a) and the light of God using Qur??n 24.35, the famous ?yat
> an-n?r, as a metaphor. As the Qur??n says:
>
> "'God is the light of the heavens and the earth; the likeness of His light
> is as a niche wherein is a lamp - the lamp in a glass, the glass as it were
> a glittering star - kindled from a blessed tree, an olive that is neither
> of the East nor of the West whose oil well-nigh would shine, even if no
> fire touched it; light upon light. God guides to His light whom He wills.
> And God strikes similes for men, and God has knowledge of everything.?
> (Q24:35)
>
> The olive tree and its fruit have broader significance in Islamic mystical
> literature, and D?r? Shikoh holds fast to the olive tree to complete his
> metaphor. The Sanskrit translation of the Majma? al-Bahrain, the
> Samudrasa?gama?, renders the ?yat an-n?r fairly faithfully, but substitutes
> the I?gud? tree, fruit, and oil for the olive tree. The Sanskrit reads as
> follows:
>
> "tad uktam asmadvede ?uddha? brahma prak??a? p?thivy?k??ayo? sa? prak??o
> yath? gav?k?ad?pa? k?cagha??madhye k?cagha?? ca prak???aprak??at?r?vat
> prak??ate sa d?pa? prajv?lita i?gud?phalatailena sa ce?gud?v?k?? na p?rve
> na v? pa?cime / nika?e tu ?obham?ne?gud?taila? prak??ate vin?gnisa?yogena /
> prak??asyopari prak??a? / m?rga? j??payati parame?vara? svaprak??asya yam
> icchati"
>
> As far as I know, the I?gud? fruit and oil have medicinal uses, but I?m
> wondering if anywhere it takes on broader mystical or metaphysical
> significance like the olive tree does for certain mystical Abrahamic
> traditions.
>
> Thanks a lot,
>
> Jonathan Peterson
> Department for the Study of Religion
> Centre for South Asian Studies
> University of Toronto
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
> committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
> unsubscribe)
>


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From wujastyk at gmail.com  Tue Apr 25 05:57:49 2017
From: wujastyk at gmail.com (Dominik Wujastyk)
Date: Mon, 24 Apr 17 23:57:49 -0600
Subject: [INDOLOGY] IMPORTANT on NEH and AIIS Funding & Budget!
In-Reply-To: <A889E2F9-570B-436C-BE01-CEE1B7FABA04@mso.umt.edu>
Message-ID: <CAKdt-CeCYG8W_eW91VTNwSOjZbVvTmRqQJ-FqL1c1N_pr4M60Q@mail.gmail.com>

Dear Bradley and Philip,

Is there anyone that non-USA citizens can write to?  Is anyone likely to be
listening to the opinions of non-USA citizens on this matter?

Best,
Dominik


?
--
Professor Dominik Wujastyk <http://ualberta.academia.edu/DominikWujastyk>
?,?

Singhmar Chair in Classical Indian Society and Polity
?,?

Department of History and Classics <http://historyandclassics.ualberta.ca/>
?,?
University of Alberta, Canada
?.?

South Asia at the U of A:

?sas.ualberta.ca?
??


On 24 April 2017 at 14:12, Clough, Bradley via INDOLOGY <
indology at list.indology.info> wrote:

> Dear Colleagues,
>
> Please see below the important message from AIIS President Philip
> Lutgendorf.
>
> Thanks,
> Brad
>
> Dr. Bradley S. Clough
> Global Humanities and Religions
> LA 101
> The University of Montana
> 32 Campus Drive
> Missoula, MT 59812
>
> bradley.clough at mso.umt.edu<mailto:bradley.clough at mso.umt.edu>
> Phone: 406-243-2837
> Fax: 406-243-4076
> ??????????????????????????????????????????????????????
>
> (Kindly circulate this as widely as possible among South Asia scholars. I
> urge you to act!  Thanks, Philip)
>
> From: Elise Auerbach <aiis at uchicago.edu<mailto:aiis at uchicago.edu>>
> Date: Thursday, April 13, 2017 at 2:24 PM
> Subject: Urgent request from AIIS President to all South Asia scholars
>
> Dear colleagues and friends of AIIS,
>
> As you probably know, the budget proposal before Congress, if approved in
> its present form, would have a severe impact on nearly all international
> education programs in our country. It would drastically reduce funding
> available for research fellowships, foreign language training, and most
> forms of educational exchange. Needless to say, it would be a terrible blow
> to AIIS and other American Overseas Research Centers (AORCs).
>
> I am asking you to write, as soon as possible, to your congressional
> representatives and to request them to restore funding to NEH, the
> Department of State?s ECA Bureau, and the Department of Education. A draft
> letter is provided below.
>
> The money involved is, in the perspective of the federal budget, trifling
> ? less (needless to say) than a few presidential weekends in Florida. But
> with it, we scholars pursue a great range of activities that advance
> international understanding.
>
> You are accustomed to receiving urgent appeals and to being told of
> "funding crises? ? but this one is worse. The Director of the Council of
> American Overseas Research Centers calls it ?the fight of our lives.? It is
> also the fight FOR our academic lives and for all that we do. Congress can
> easily restore these paltry funding lines. Please make your voice heard
> urging it to do so.
>
> Gratefully,
>
> Philip Lutgendorf
> President, AIIS
>
> Dear XXXX
>
>     I am writing to express my strong support for two federal programs
> that fund the activities of the American Institute of Indian Studies
> (AIIS). Specifically, AIIS receives funding from the Bureau of Educational
> and Cultural Affairs at the Department of State and from the Department of
> Education's Title VI international programs. These very modest
> appropriations support a great range of activities that include language
> training for US scholars in critical languages of India, Pakistan, and
> Bangladesh, and research programs that promote international understanding
> and goodwill. The Trump Administration has proposed to severely cut these
> programs in both Fiscal Years 2017 and 2018.  The survival of AIIS depends
> on the continuation of both programs.  Please do all you can to see that
> both continue to receive at least their present level of funding.
>
> [OPTIONAL: a paragraph about the connection of the writer--like, "AIIS
> programs support the activities of students and faculty at [NAME OF YOUR
> INSTITUTION] and greatly enhance my own teaching and research. (etc.)]
>
>     As you know, strategic ties with India are growing and international
> cooperation on issues of trade, terrorism and security are more important
> than ever. Now is not the time to cut off academic contacts. Instead the US
> should be facilitating more interactions between US scholars, students and
> educational institutions with their counterparts in the world?s largest
> democracy. These programs not only benefit our entire country but also the
> students, teachers, and colleges and universities in [NAME OF YOUR STATE].
>
>      Again, I urge you in the strongest terms: please do all you can to
> see that the international exchange programs of the Departments of State
> and Education receive level funding in both FY 2017 and 2018.
>
>      Thank you for your attention to this matter..
>
> Sincerely,
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
> committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
> unsubscribe)
>


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From wujastyk at gmail.com  Tue Apr 25 06:10:58 2017
From: wujastyk at gmail.com (Dominik Wujastyk)
Date: Tue, 25 Apr 17 00:10:58 -0600
Subject: =?utf-8?Q?[INDOLOGY]_Call_for_papers_for_the_journal_=C5=9Aodhanidhi=E1=B8=A5?=
Message-ID: <CAKdt-Cc0O7-0XuVs6QGd7TXVK3NPrxXnnw1R+Pnu87YA7gXVJw@mail.gmail.com>

All enquiries to Dr Sen, please.

Forwarded message ----------
From: Dr. Subhrajit Sen <ssubhrasen at gmail.com>
Date: 22 April 2017 at 10:17

Please find the attachment.

-- 
Dr. Subhrajit Sen
Assistant Professor
Department of Sanskrit
University of Gour Banga
Malda; West Bengal
Mob.: 7059081863



INVITATION CALL FOR RESEARCH PAPER FOR 2ND
 VOLUME OF
?
PEER-REVIEW DOUBLE BLIND REFERRED DEPARTMENTAL JOURNAL
?
?
??odhanidhi??

*??: Chief Editors :*

Dr. Chandan Bhattacharyay
?
&
?
Dr. Subhrajit Sen

Contact: 7059081863 (S.Sen) & 9433474480 (C. Bhattacharyay)


*??:Important Dates:*

? Last Date of Paper Submission : 30th , November,2016
? Month of Publication : March, 2017


*??FROM*

DEPARTMENT OF SANSKRIT, UNIVERSITY OF GOUR BANGA, MALDA

*??INSTRUCTION TO AUTHORS*

1. The Peer-Reviewed Research Journal ?odhanidhi? accepts original research
papers not published elsewhere, containing new facts on any disciplines of
Sanskrit Wisdoms. The research papers should be written in English and
Sanskrit.

2. Manuscripts must be typed in single column using double spacing (using
footnotes or endnotes) on one side of bond paper (A4 size 29.5cm x 21cm).
The pages of the typescript should be numbered consecutively.

3. The article should not exceed 3000 words. Research paper must be in
appropriate research format. Please use Unicode fonts for Devanagari script
and IAST (transliteration scheme) for Sanskrit words in roman script (For
papers those are written in English).

4. Papers must be sent in both formats (PDF & Word) to ssubhrasen at gmail.com
& chandan_snsk at yahoo.co.in.

5. Format of the research paper:
[...further details may be requested from the editors]


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From mkapstei at uchicago.edu  Tue Apr 25 07:27:31 2017
From: mkapstei at uchicago.edu (Matthew Kapstein)
Date: Tue, 25 Apr 17 07:27:31 +0000
Subject: [INDOLOGY] IMPORTANT on NEH and AIIS Funding & Budget!
In-Reply-To: <CAKdt-CeCYG8W_eW91VTNwSOjZbVvTmRqQJ-FqL1c1N_pr4M60Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <82C3E42590D939418C74DD76B97DDED047C29506@xm-mbx-06-prod>

Dear Dominik,

As the US federal budget is a congressional matter, it is essential for US citizens to make
their concerns known to their representatives, but I rather doubt that there is much
that non-US citizens can do here. If one has knowledge of individual US congressional
representatives who are particularly interested in relevant issues (e.g. US-India relations)
it may be worthwhile for concerned persons to write to them; it wouldn't hurt in any case.

best,
Matthew

Matthew Kapstein
Directeur d'?tudes,
Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes

Numata Visiting Professor of Buddhist Studies,
The University of Chicago
________________________________



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From shrinsaha at gmail.com  Tue Apr 25 14:19:07 2017
From: shrinsaha at gmail.com (Niranjan Saha)
Date: Tue, 25 Apr 17 19:49:07 +0530
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Request for Pdf (William Pinch)
Message-ID: <CAHuz+Cr+6e0RmcdXXs+8n9Kzah9ug8g=tn7UrVePZgD+COQk8A@mail.gmail.com>

Dear List,

I'd be grateful if any of you have the following item and could pass on the
same.

Warrior Ascetics and Indian Empires (Cambridge Studies in Indian History
and Society)
by William R. Pinch
<http://www.amazon.in/William-R.-Pinch/e/B001H9R6PU/ref=dp_byline_cont_book_1>



With sincere regards,
Niranjan Saha
India

<https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail>
Virus-free.
www.avast.com
<https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail>
<#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>


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From antonio.jardim at gmail.com  Tue Apr 25 14:26:14 2017
From: antonio.jardim at gmail.com (Antonio Ferreira-Jardim)
Date: Wed, 26 Apr 17 00:26:14 +1000
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Request for Pdf (William Pinch)
In-Reply-To: <CAHuz+Cr+6e0RmcdXXs+8n9Kzah9ug8g=tn7UrVePZgD+COQk8A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAGDOqfooQ3k8YJiWWjW9-7E3_AeqtfVCE4hHBOjckc-o7Wrs5A@mail.gmail.com>

Hello,

With respect, this book is in print, in copyright and available in a very
affordable South Asian edition.

Please consult your local bricks and mortar bookstore or online bookseller
for details.

Kind regards,
Antonio Ferreira-Jardim
UQ


On 26 Apr. 2017 12:20 am, "Niranjan Saha via INDOLOGY" <
indology at list.indology.info> wrote:

> Dear List,
>
> I'd be grateful if any of you have the following item and could pass on
> the same.
>
> Warrior Ascetics and Indian Empires (Cambridge Studies in Indian History
> and Society)
> by William R. Pinch
> <http://www.amazon.in/William-R.-Pinch/e/B001H9R6PU/ref=dp_byline_cont_book_1>
>
>
>
> With sincere regards,
> Niranjan Saha
> India
>
>
> <https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail> Virus-free.
> www.avast.com
> <https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail>
> <#m_4966404400435088644_DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>
>
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
> committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
> unsubscribe)
>


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From ondracka at ff.cuni.cz  Tue Apr 25 14:31:45 2017
From: ondracka at ff.cuni.cz (=?utf-8?Q?Lubom=C3=ADr_Ondra=C4=8Dka?=)
Date: Tue, 25 Apr 17 16:31:45 +0200
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Request for Pdf (William Pinch)
In-Reply-To: <CAHuz+Cr+6e0RmcdXXs+8n9Kzah9ug8g=tn7UrVePZgD+COQk8A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20170425163145.f87c06034722652c1f460a04@ff.cuni.cz>

There is a cheap Indian edition of this book (published by Foundation Books in Delhi, ISBN 81-7596-367-0).
It costs about 500 INR, so buy it!

LO

On Tue, 25 Apr 2017 19:49:07 +0530
Niranjan Saha via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info> wrote:

> Dear List,
> 
> I'd be grateful if any of you have the following item and could pass on the
> same.
> 
> Warrior Ascetics and Indian Empires (Cambridge Studies in Indian History
> and Society)
> by William R. Pinch
> <http://www.amazon.in/William-R.-Pinch/e/B001H9R6PU/ref=dp_byline_cont_book_1>
> 
> 
> 
> With sincere regards,
> Niranjan Saha
> India
> 
> <https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail>
> Virus-free.
> www.avast.com
> <https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail>
> <#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>





From nakeerthi at gmail.com  Tue Apr 25 17:18:51 2017
From: nakeerthi at gmail.com (naresh keerthi)
Date: Tue, 25 Apr 17 22:48:51 +0530
Subject: =?utf-8?Q?[INDOLOGY]_Significance_of_the_I=E1=B9=85gud=C4=AB_tree?=
Message-ID: <CACcR+FDibYWT18vf69-32J0oKk2UYMX0N_2nUH__9OFimY8hNw@mail.gmail.com>

Dear Jonathan Peterson,


The i?gud? (also i?guda) is also known as the *t?pasa-taru *
(Amarako?a)or *Muni-taru
*(S?ya?a), and beside its medicinal properties, it is associated with the
austere life ? either that of *??i*-s, or of people like R?ma who had to
spend a long time in the forest.


It is known for its lipid-rich fruit, that are crushed to extract an oil of
sorts; which is used as lamp fuel, and as an unguent for tying up hair into
the matted *ja??bh?ra* suitable for a forest-dweller,  as well as used as a
salve for wounds. The oilcake that remains after extracting the oil
*[i?gud?-pi?y?ka*] is favoured as an object for making ritual funereal
offerings.


All instances of the i?gud? in the R?m?ya?a are restricted to the
Ara?yak???a, which suggests that the tree is tied to the semiotics of the
forest and the forest-dwelling folk (the *t?pasa* and the *vaikh?nasa*, not
the hunter). When R?ma comes to the Ni??da king?s land - ???gaverapura, he
rests beneath a huge I?gud? tree. Later Bharata meets the Ni??da king, and
pays his respects to the tree where R?ma etc. spent a night.  The same
k???a also has a description of how R?ma, upon hearing news of Da?aratha?s
death offered the *niv?pa* water, and then a funeral pi??a of *i?gud?-pi?y?ka
*mixed with the jujube (*badaraphala*) in homage to his dead ancestor
[Ara?yak???a, 95th sarga?].


 The Abhij??na??kuntala refers to the oil-stained rocks used to crush
i?gud? (ostensibly for tying ja??) being markers of a hermitage in the
vicinity [First act, Du?yanta - *n?v?r?? etc?prasnigdh??
kvacidi?gud?phalabhida? s?cyanta evopal??*], to the use of i?gud? for
dressing wounds [fourth act - Ka?va to ?akuntal? describing her pet
deer ? *yasya
tvay? vra?a-viropa?am i?gud?n?? taila? nya?icyata mukhe ku?as?cividdhe* ].
The Raghuva??a refers to lamps lit with i?gud? oil (I?m unable to recollect
the full verse ? *t? i?gud?-sneha-k?ta-prad?p??* etc.)


That long prelude was only to point to the many features the *i?gud?*
shares, with the *zaytun*, as the nearest approximation, in terms of
bearing fruit that yield oil, as well as having religious/ritual
significance; and it was probably this overlap of features that prompted
the translator to use the i?gud?.



I join Prof Madhav Deshpande in requesting a pdf ? I would love to look at
this text.


Best,

Naresh Keerthi

National Institute of Advanced Studies

Bangalore


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From Bradley.Clough at mso.umt.edu  Tue Apr 25 23:22:41 2017
From: Bradley.Clough at mso.umt.edu (Clough, Bradley)
Date: Tue, 25 Apr 17 23:22:41 +0000
Subject: [INDOLOGY] IMPORTANT on NEH and AIIS Funding & Budget!
In-Reply-To: <82C3E42590D939418C74DD76B97DDED047C29506@xm-mbx-06-prod>
Message-ID: <65A8AD8D-11FF-4ACF-BBFB-5AF5A2B7EE7A@mso.umt.edu>

Yes, I concur with Matthew. Thanks to you, Dominik, and to others for your concern.

Best,
Brad



On Apr 25, 2017, at 1:27 AM, Matthew Kapstein <mkapstei at uchicago.edu<mailto:mkapstei at uchicago.edu>> wrote:

Dear Dominik,

As the US federal budget is a congressional matter, it is essential for US citizens to make
their concerns known to their representatives, but I rather doubt that there is much
that non-US citizens can do here. If one has knowledge of individual US congressional
representatives who are particularly interested in relevant issues (e.g. US-India relations)
it may be worthwhile for concerned persons to write to them; it wouldn't hurt in any case.

best,
Matthew

Matthew Kapstein
Directeur d'?tudes,
Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes

Numata Visiting Professor of Buddhist Studies,
The University of Chicago






From arlogriffiths at hotmail.com  Wed Apr 26 05:49:37 2017
From: arlogriffiths at hotmail.com (Arlo Griffiths)
Date: Wed, 26 Apr 17 05:49:37 +0000
Subject: =?utf-8?Q?[INDOLOGY]_Renou,_=C3=89coles?=
Message-ID: <HE1PR0902MB1753AB70CF77C2D6559F0D86A5110@HE1PR0902MB1753.eurprd09.prod.outlook.com>

Dear colleagues,

Does anyone happen to have a pdf of this classic work?


Renou, Louis. 1947. Les ?coles v?diques et la formation du Veda. Cahiers de la Soci?t? asiatique 9. Paris: Imprimerie nationale.


Thank you.


Arlo Griffiths


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From hr at ivs.edu  Wed Apr 26 10:27:13 2017
From: hr at ivs.edu (Howard Resnick)
Date: Wed, 26 Apr 17 13:27:13 +0300
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Name
Message-ID: <A476DCFA-878F-4624-88D5-4566617EC29C@ivs.edu>

Dear Scholars,

	Does Rishikesha appear in the Maha-bharata? If so, by what name(s)?

	Thanks. All help appreciated.

Howard







From shrinsaha at gmail.com  Wed Apr 26 14:11:46 2017
From: shrinsaha at gmail.com (Niranjan Saha)
Date: Wed, 26 Apr 17 19:41:46 +0530
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Request for Pdf (William Pinch)
In-Reply-To: <20170425163145.f87c06034722652c1f460a04@ff.cuni.cz>
Message-ID: <CAHuz+CpGhPtc9gb4HBM9DHp4hARmD+-L5VCQy_H0ek6wDvcMgQ@mail.gmail.com>

Dear All,

Thank you so much for the information.


Sincere regards,
N.Saha

<https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail>
Virus-free.
www.avast.com
<https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail>
<#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>

On Tue, Apr 25, 2017 at 8:01 PM, Lubom?r Ondra?ka <ondracka at ff.cuni.cz>
wrote:

> There is a cheap Indian edition of this book (published by Foundation
> Books in Delhi, ISBN 81-7596-367-0).
> It costs about 500 INR, so buy it!
>
> LO
>
> On Tue, 25 Apr 2017 19:49:07 +0530
> Niranjan Saha via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info> wrote:
>
> > Dear List,
> >
> > I'd be grateful if any of you have the following item and could pass on
> the
> > same.
> >
> > Warrior Ascetics and Indian Empires (Cambridge Studies in Indian History
> > and Society)
> > by William R. Pinch
> > <http://www.amazon.in/William-R.-Pinch/e/B001H9R6PU/ref=dp_
> byline_cont_book_1>
> >
> >
> >
> > With sincere regards,
> > Niranjan Saha
> > India
> >
> > <https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_
> source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail>
> > Virus-free.
> > www.avast.com
> > <https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_
> source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail>
> > <#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>
>


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From hhhock at illinois.edu  Wed Apr 26 14:33:15 2017
From: hhhock at illinois.edu (Hock, Hans Henrich)
Date: Wed, 26 Apr 17 14:33:15 +0000
Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_[INDOLOGY]_Renou,_=C3=89coles?=
In-Reply-To: <HE1PR0902MB1753AB70CF77C2D6559F0D86A5110@HE1PR0902MB1753.eurprd09.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <78C53178-6CA2-4FCF-A0A9-E245E5C51A9F@illinois.edu>

If this is available, I?d like a copy (or a link) too.

Best wishes,

Hans Henrich Hock


On 26 Apr 2017, at 00:49, Arlo Griffiths via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info<mailto:indology at list.indology.info>> wrote:

Dear colleagues,

Does anyone happen to have a pdf of this classic work?


Renou, Louis. 1947. Les ?coles v?diques et la formation du Veda. Cahiers de la Soci?t? asiatique 9. Paris: Imprimerie nationale.

Thank you.

Arlo Griffiths
_______________________________________________
INDOLOGY mailing list
INDOLOGY at list.indology.info<mailto:INDOLOGY at list.indology.info>
indology-owner at list.indology.info<mailto:indology-owner at list.indology.info> (messages to the list's managing committee)
http://listinfo.indology.info<http://listinfo.indology.info/> (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe)



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From aparpola at gmail.com  Wed Apr 26 17:30:46 2017
From: aparpola at gmail.com (Asko Parpola)
Date: Wed, 26 Apr 17 20:30:46 +0300
Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_[INDOLOGY]_Renou,_=C3=89coles?=
In-Reply-To: <78C53178-6CA2-4FCF-A0A9-E245E5C51A9F@illinois.edu>
Message-ID: <CAK_NE-5ETNAwpv3n2h6uaJBZACnkCupBOwCsHH1cthM5ob-6gA@mail.gmail.com>

I would like to have a copy as well. With best regards,

On Wed, Apr 26, 2017 at 5:33 PM, Hock, Hans Henrich via INDOLOGY <
indology at list.indology.info> wrote:

> If this is available, I?d like a copy (or a link) too.
>
> Best wishes,
>
> Hans Henrich Hock
>
>
> On 26 Apr 2017, at 00:49, Arlo Griffiths via INDOLOGY <
> indology at list.indology.info> wrote:
>
> Dear colleagues,
>
> Does anyone happen to have a pdf of this classic work?
>
> Renou, Louis. 1947. *Les ?coles v?diques et la formation du Veda*.
> Cahiers de la Soci?t? asiatique 9. Paris: Imprimerie nationale.
>
>
> Thank you.
>
> Arlo Griffiths
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
> committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
> unsubscribe)
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
> committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
> unsubscribe)
>



-- 
Asko Parpola, aparpola at gmail.com
http://orcid.org/0000-0002-9484-3732


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From gthomgt at gmail.com  Wed Apr 26 19:05:00 2017
From: gthomgt at gmail.com (George Thompson)
Date: Wed, 26 Apr 17 15:05:00 -0400
Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_[INDOLOGY]_Renou,_=C3=89coles?=
In-Reply-To: <CAK_NE-5ETNAwpv3n2h6uaJBZACnkCupBOwCsHH1cthM5ob-6gA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAP1Y1zu6LYwxc2u_3ONwc1AsFdgcczqeWXnWqA8vErQ_2jCmPw@mail.gmail.com>

Dear Arlo, Hans, and Asko,

I don't have a pdf of this book, but I have photocopy of it [I copied it
when I was a graduate student, long before the days of pdfs].  If a pdf
does not emerge soon, I will get one of the local computer shops to convert
it into a pdf.

Best wishes,

George

On Wed, Apr 26, 2017 at 1:30 PM, Asko Parpola via INDOLOGY <
indology at list.indology.info> wrote:

> I would like to have a copy as well. With best regards,
>
> On Wed, Apr 26, 2017 at 5:33 PM, Hock, Hans Henrich via INDOLOGY <
> indology at list.indology.info> wrote:
>
>> If this is available, I?d like a copy (or a link) too.
>>
>> Best wishes,
>>
>> Hans Henrich Hock
>>
>>
>> On 26 Apr 2017, at 00:49, Arlo Griffiths via INDOLOGY <
>> indology at list.indology.info> wrote:
>>
>> Dear colleagues,
>>
>> Does anyone happen to have a pdf of this classic work?
>>
>> Renou, Louis. 1947. *Les ?coles v?diques et la formation du Veda*.
>> Cahiers de la Soci?t? asiatique 9. Paris: Imprimerie nationale.
>>
>>
>> Thank you.
>>
>> Arlo Griffiths
>> _______________________________________________
>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
>> committee)
>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
>> unsubscribe)
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
>> committee)
>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
>> unsubscribe)
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Asko Parpola, aparpola at gmail.com
> http://orcid.org/0000-0002-9484-3732
>
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
> committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
> unsubscribe)
>


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From hhhock at illinois.edu  Wed Apr 26 19:29:59 2017
From: hhhock at illinois.edu (Hock, Hans Henrich)
Date: Wed, 26 Apr 17 19:29:59 +0000
Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_[INDOLOGY]_Renou,_=C3=89coles?=
In-Reply-To: <CAP1Y1zu6LYwxc2u_3ONwc1AsFdgcczqeWXnWqA8vErQ_2jCmPw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <68FDA32F-3AEA-4C2B-8692-C0A8AE093439@illinois.edu>

Wonderful, George!

All the best,

Hans Henrich

Sent from my iPhone

On Apr 26, 2017, at 14:05, George Thompson <gthomgt at gmail.com<mailto:gthomgt at gmail.com>> wrote:

Dear Arlo, Hans, and Asko,

I don't have a pdf of this book, but I have photocopy of it [I copied it when I was a graduate student, long before the days of pdfs].  If a pdf does not emerge soon, I will get one of the local computer shops to convert it into a pdf.

Best wishes,

George

On Wed, Apr 26, 2017 at 1:30 PM, Asko Parpola via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info<mailto:indology at list.indology.info>> wrote:
I would like to have a copy as well. With best regards,

On Wed, Apr 26, 2017 at 5:33 PM, Hock, Hans Henrich via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info<mailto:indology at list.indology.info>> wrote:
If this is available, I?d like a copy (or a link) too.

Best wishes,

Hans Henrich Hock


On 26 Apr 2017, at 00:49, Arlo Griffiths via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info<mailto:indology at list.indology.info>> wrote:

Dear colleagues,

Does anyone happen to have a pdf of this classic work?


Renou, Louis. 1947. Les ?coles v?diques et la formation du Veda. Cahiers de la Soci?t? asiatique 9. Paris: Imprimerie nationale.

Thank you.

Arlo Griffiths
_______________________________________________
INDOLOGY mailing list
INDOLOGY at list.indology.info<mailto:INDOLOGY at list.indology.info>
indology-owner at list.indology.info<mailto:indology-owner at list.indology.info> (messages to the list's managing committee)
http://listinfo.indology.info<http://listinfo.indology.info/> (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe)


_______________________________________________
INDOLOGY mailing list
INDOLOGY at list.indology.info<mailto:INDOLOGY at list.indology.info>
indology-owner at list.indology.info<mailto:indology-owner at list.indology.info> (messages to the list's managing committee)
http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe)



--
Asko Parpola, aparpola at gmail.com<mailto:aparpola at gmail.com>
http://orcid.org/0000-0002-9484-3732

_______________________________________________
INDOLOGY mailing list
INDOLOGY at list.indology.info<mailto:INDOLOGY at list.indology.info>
indology-owner at list.indology.info<mailto:indology-owner at list.indology.info> (messages to the list's managing committee)
http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe)



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From mmdesh at umich.edu  Wed Apr 26 20:48:02 2017
From: mmdesh at umich.edu (Madhav Deshpande)
Date: Wed, 26 Apr 17 20:48:02 +0000
Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_[INDOLOGY]_Renou,_=C3=89coles?=
In-Reply-To: <68FDA32F-3AEA-4C2B-8692-C0A8AE093439@illinois.edu>
Message-ID: <CAB3-dzfXBEP=uoUfhFjHsrtNpfhFVsWSGu+TVcVCi9Ykh-4sGg@mail.gmail.com>

Hi George, if you do scan this work, do send it to me.

Madhav


On Wed, Apr 26, 2017 at 3:30 PM Hock, Hans Henrich via INDOLOGY <
indology at list.indology.info> wrote:

> Wonderful, George!
>
> All the best,
>
> Hans Henrich
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Apr 26, 2017, at 14:05, George Thompson <gthomgt at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Dear Arlo, Hans, and Asko,
>
> I don't have a pdf of this book, but I have photocopy of it [I copied it
> when I was a graduate student, long before the days of pdfs].  If a pdf
> does not emerge soon, I will get one of the local computer shops to convert
> it into a pdf.
>
> Best wishes,
>
> George
>
> On Wed, Apr 26, 2017 at 1:30 PM, Asko Parpola via INDOLOGY <
> indology at list.indology.info> wrote:
>
>> I would like to have a copy as well. With best regards,
>>
>> On Wed, Apr 26, 2017 at 5:33 PM, Hock, Hans Henrich via INDOLOGY <
>> indology at list.indology.info> wrote:
>>
>>> If this is available, I?d like a copy (or a link) too.
>>>
>>> Best wishes,
>>>
>>> Hans Henrich Hock
>>>
>>>
>>> On 26 Apr 2017, at 00:49, Arlo Griffiths via INDOLOGY <
>>> indology at list.indology.info> wrote:
>>>
>>> Dear colleagues,
>>>
>>> Does anyone happen to have a pdf of this classic work?
>>>
>>> Renou, Louis. 1947. *Les ?coles v?diques et la formation du Veda*.
>>> Cahiers de la Soci?t? asiatique 9. Paris: Imprimerie nationale.
>>>
>>>
>>> Thank you.
>>>
>>> Arlo Griffiths
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
>>> committee)
>>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options
>>> or unsubscribe)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
>>> committee)
>>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options
>>> or unsubscribe)
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Asko Parpola, aparpola at gmail.com
>> http://orcid.org/0000-0002-9484-3732
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
>> committee)
>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
>> unsubscribe)
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
> committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
> unsubscribe)


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From jemhouben at gmail.com  Wed Apr 26 21:45:36 2017
From: jemhouben at gmail.com (Jan E.M. Houben)
Date: Wed, 26 Apr 17 22:45:36 +0100
Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_[INDOLOGY]_Renou,_=C3=89coles?=
In-Reply-To: <CAB3-dzfXBEP=uoUfhFjHsrtNpfhFVsWSGu+TVcVCi9Ykh-4sGg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAGCGLoBB2KZq21EQEdXEma9gcQUnqB3mEVRN7ZXHOUCNtpfvzQ@mail.gmail.com>

Dear All,
I am not sure whether it is already beyond the expiry date of "droits
d'auteur" but I guess that should be now or next year.
For the moment I have here a link to my dropbox for a scan of this landmark
study by Louis Renou
https://www.dropbox.com/s/a4lvgvbxr7ozix8/Les%20ecoles%20vediques%20et%20la%
20formation%20du%20Veda.%28L.Renou%29%28Paris%2C1947%29%
28600dpi%2Clossy%29.pdf?dl=0
 -- which is naturally frequently referred to by contributors to the
volume *Vedic
??kh?s: past, present, future* ?  HOS   Opera Minora IX ? Cambridge (Mass.)
2016 (announced earlier on this list and available at southasiabooks.com
for ca. 30$).
If I am not mistaken Prof. Thite made an English translation which is not
yet published.
Jan Houben



*Jan E.M. HOUBEN*

Directeur d??tudes

Sources et histoire de la tradition sanskrite

Professor of South Asian History and Philology

*?cole Pratique des Hautes ?tudes*

*Sciences historiques et philologiques *

54, rue Saint-Jacques

CS 20525 ? 75005 Paris

johannes.houben at ephe.sorbonne.fr

https://ephe-sorbonne.academia.edu/JanEMHouben

www.ephe.fr


On 26 April 2017 at 21:48, Madhav Deshpande via INDOLOGY <
indology at list.indology.info> wrote:

> Hi George, if you do scan this work, do send it to me.
>
> Madhav
>
>
> On Wed, Apr 26, 2017 at 3:30 PM Hock, Hans Henrich via INDOLOGY <
> indology at list.indology.info> wrote:
>
>> Wonderful, George!
>>
>> All the best,
>>
>> Hans Henrich
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> On Apr 26, 2017, at 14:05, George Thompson <gthomgt at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Dear Arlo, Hans, and Asko,
>>
>> I don't have a pdf of this book, but I have photocopy of it [I copied it
>> when I was a graduate student, long before the days of pdfs].  If a pdf
>> does not emerge soon, I will get one of the local computer shops to convert
>> it into a pdf.
>>
>> Best wishes,
>>
>> George
>>
>> On Wed, Apr 26, 2017 at 1:30 PM, Asko Parpola via INDOLOGY <
>> indology at list.indology.info> wrote:
>>
>>> I would like to have a copy as well. With best regards,
>>>
>>> On Wed, Apr 26, 2017 at 5:33 PM, Hock, Hans Henrich via INDOLOGY <
>>> indology at list.indology.info> wrote:
>>>
>>>> If this is available, I?d like a copy (or a link) too.
>>>>
>>>> Best wishes,
>>>>
>>>> Hans Henrich Hock
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 26 Apr 2017, at 00:49, Arlo Griffiths via INDOLOGY <
>>>> indology at list.indology.info> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Dear colleagues,
>>>>
>>>> Does anyone happen to have a pdf of this classic work?
>>>>
>>>> Renou, Louis. 1947. *Les ?coles v?diques et la formation du Veda*.
>>>> Cahiers de la Soci?t? asiatique 9. Paris: Imprimerie nationale.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Thank you.
>>>>
>>>> Arlo Griffiths
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>>>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>>>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
>>>> committee)
>>>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options
>>>> or unsubscribe)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>>>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>>>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
>>>> committee)
>>>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options
>>>> or unsubscribe)
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Asko Parpola, aparpola at gmail.com
>>> http://orcid.org/0000-0002-9484-3732
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
>>> committee)
>>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options
>>> or unsubscribe)
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
>> committee)
>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
>> unsubscribe)
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
> committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
> unsubscribe)
>


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From hspier.muktabodha at gmail.com  Wed Apr 26 23:06:02 2017
From: hspier.muktabodha at gmail.com (Harry Spier)
Date: Wed, 26 Apr 17 19:06:02 -0400
Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_[INDOLOGY]_Renou,_=C3=89coles?=
In-Reply-To: <78C53178-6CA2-4FCF-A0A9-E245E5C51A9F@illinois.edu>
Message-ID: <CAPW7aQE2DsbKKQVok+4L951L-=WQ-0F8ZsshZSAsgOXa4yi+Dg@mail.gmail.com>

If possible I also would like a copy.

Thanks,
Harry Spier

On Wed, Apr 26, 2017 at 10:33 AM, Hock, Hans Henrich via INDOLOGY <
indology at list.indology.info> wrote:

> If this is available, I?d like a copy (or a link) too.
>
> Best wishes,
>
> Hans Henrich Hock
>
>
> On 26 Apr 2017, at 00:49, Arlo Griffiths via INDOLOGY <
> indology at list.indology.info> wrote:
>
> Dear colleagues,
>
> Does anyone happen to have a pdf of this classic work?
>
> Renou, Louis. 1947. *Les ?coles v?diques et la formation du Veda*.
> Cahiers de la Soci?t? asiatique 9. Paris: Imprimerie nationale.
>
>
> Thank you.
>
> Arlo Griffiths
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
> committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
> unsubscribe)
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
> committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
> unsubscribe)
>


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From hspier.muktabodha at gmail.com  Wed Apr 26 23:23:23 2017
From: hspier.muktabodha at gmail.com (Harry Spier)
Date: Wed, 26 Apr 17 19:23:23 -0400
Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_[INDOLOGY]_Renou,_=C3=89coles?=
In-Reply-To: <CAGCGLoBB2KZq21EQEdXEma9gcQUnqB3mEVRN7ZXHOUCNtpfvzQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAPW7aQGy094jCXCGCeoPAOte=_KGE=S_NFvU8izg7asN53fTPA@mail.gmail.com>

Does anyone have a table of contents for "Vedic Shakhas Past Present and
Future"  HOS Opera Minora

Thanks,
Harry Spier

On Wed, Apr 26, 2017 at 5:45 PM, Jan E.M. Houben via INDOLOGY <
indology at list.indology.info> wrote:

> Dear All,
> I am not sure whether it is already beyond the expiry date of "droits
> d'auteur" but I guess that should be now or next year.
> For the moment I have here a link to my dropbox for a scan of this
> landmark study by Louis Renou
> https://www.dropbox.com/s/a4lvgvbxr7ozix8/Les%20ecoles%20ved
> iques%20et%20la%20formation%20du%20Veda.%28L.Renou%29%
> 28Paris%2C1947%29%28600dpi%2Clossy%29.pdf?dl=0
>  -- which is naturally frequently referred to by contributors to the
> volume *Vedic ??kh?s: past, present, future* ?  HOS   Opera Minora IX ?
> Cambridge (Mass.) 2016 (announced earlier on this list and available at
> southasiabooks.com for ca. 30$).
> If I am not mistaken Prof. Thite made an English translation which is not
> yet published.
> Jan Houben
>
>
>
> *Jan E.M. HOUBEN*
>
> Directeur d??tudes
>
> Sources et histoire de la tradition sanskrite
>
> Professor of South Asian History and Philology
>
> *?cole Pratique des Hautes ?tudes*
>
> *Sciences historiques et philologiques *
>
> 54, rue Saint-Jacques
>
> CS 20525 ? 75005 Paris
>
> johannes.houben at ephe.sorbonne.fr
>
> https://ephe-sorbonne.academia.edu/JanEMHouben
>
> www.ephe.fr
>
>
> On 26 April 2017 at 21:48, Madhav Deshpande via INDOLOGY <
> indology at list.indology.info> wrote:
>
>> Hi George, if you do scan this work, do send it to me.
>>
>> Madhav
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Apr 26, 2017 at 3:30 PM Hock, Hans Henrich via INDOLOGY <
>> indology at list.indology.info> wrote:
>>
>>> Wonderful, George!
>>>
>>> All the best,
>>>
>>> Hans Henrich
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>
>>> On Apr 26, 2017, at 14:05, George Thompson <gthomgt at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> Dear Arlo, Hans, and Asko,
>>>
>>> I don't have a pdf of this book, but I have photocopy of it [I copied it
>>> when I was a graduate student, long before the days of pdfs].  If a pdf
>>> does not emerge soon, I will get one of the local computer shops to convert
>>> it into a pdf.
>>>
>>> Best wishes,
>>>
>>> George
>>>
>>> On Wed, Apr 26, 2017 at 1:30 PM, Asko Parpola via INDOLOGY <
>>> indology at list.indology.info> wrote:
>>>
>>>> I would like to have a copy as well. With best regards,
>>>>
>>>> On Wed, Apr 26, 2017 at 5:33 PM, Hock, Hans Henrich via INDOLOGY <
>>>> indology at list.indology.info> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> If this is available, I?d like a copy (or a link) too.
>>>>>
>>>>> Best wishes,
>>>>>
>>>>> Hans Henrich Hock
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On 26 Apr 2017, at 00:49, Arlo Griffiths via INDOLOGY <
>>>>> indology at list.indology.info> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Dear colleagues,
>>>>>
>>>>> Does anyone happen to have a pdf of this classic work?
>>>>>
>>>>> Renou, Louis. 1947. *Les ?coles v?diques et la formation du Veda*.
>>>>> Cahiers de la Soci?t? asiatique 9. Paris: Imprimerie nationale.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Thank you.
>>>>>
>>>>> Arlo Griffiths
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>>>>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>>>>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
>>>>> committee)
>>>>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options
>>>>> or unsubscribe)
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>>>>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>>>>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
>>>>> committee)
>>>>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options
>>>>> or unsubscribe)
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Asko Parpola, aparpola at gmail.com
>>>> http://orcid.org/0000-0002-9484-3732
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>>>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>>>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
>>>> committee)
>>>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options
>>>> or unsubscribe)
>>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
>>> committee)
>>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options
>>> or unsubscribe)
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
>> committee)
>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
>> unsubscribe)
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
> committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
> unsubscribe)
>


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From hhhock at illinois.edu  Thu Apr 27 01:53:15 2017
From: hhhock at illinois.edu (Hock, Hans Henrich)
Date: Thu, 27 Apr 17 01:53:15 +0000
Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_[INDOLOGY]_Renou,_=C3=89coles?=
In-Reply-To: <CAGCGLoBB2KZq21EQEdXEma9gcQUnqB3mEVRN7ZXHOUCNtpfvzQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <87086D62-B398-4755-B337-508084E10C0D@illinois.edu>

Fantastic, Jan! Many thanks,

Hans Henrich


On 26 Apr 2017, at 16:45, Jan E.M. Houben <jemhouben at gmail.com<mailto:jemhouben at gmail.com>> wrote:

Dear All,
I am not sure whether it is already beyond the expiry date of "droits d'auteur" but I guess that should be now or next year.
For the moment I have here a link to my dropbox for a scan of this landmark study by Louis Renou
https://www.dropbox.com/s/a4lvgvbxr7ozix8/Les%20ecoles%20vediques%20et%20la%20formation%20du%20Veda.%28L.Renou%29%28Paris%2C1947%29%28600dpi%2Clossy%29.pdf?dl=0
 -- which is naturally frequently referred to by contributors to the volume Vedic ??kh?s: past, present, future ?  HOS   Opera Minora IX ? Cambridge (Mass.) 2016 (announced earlier on this list and available at southasiabooks.com<http://southasiabooks.com/> for ca. 30$).
If I am not mistaken Prof. Thite made an English translation which is not yet published.
Jan Houben


     [https://docs.google.com/uc?export=download&id=0B-TN0Ek0VfGDX1RqVTJKdjBuWWs&revid=0B-TN0Ek0VfGDdVF4aXhNb1F5czA4bFhBRzI1S2l3UitFeFBjPQ]

Jan E.M. HOUBEN
Directeur d??tudes
Sources et histoire de la tradition sanskrite
Professor of South Asian History and Philology
?cole Pratique des Hautes ?tudes
Sciences historiques et philologiques
54, rue Saint-Jacques
CS 20525 ? 75005 Paris
johannes.houben at ephe.sorbonne.fr<mailto:johannes.houben at ephe.sorbonne.fr>
https://ephe-sorbonne.academia.edu/JanEMHouben

www.ephe.fr<http://www.ephe.fr/>

On 26 April 2017 at 21:48, Madhav Deshpande via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info<mailto:indology at list.indology.info>> wrote:
Hi George, if you do scan this work, do send it to me.

Madhav


On Wed, Apr 26, 2017 at 3:30 PM Hock, Hans Henrich via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info<mailto:indology at list.indology.info>> wrote:
Wonderful, George!

All the best,

Hans Henrich

Sent from my iPhone

On Apr 26, 2017, at 14:05, George Thompson <gthomgt at gmail.com<mailto:gthomgt at gmail.com>> wrote:

Dear Arlo, Hans, and Asko,

I don't have a pdf of this book, but I have photocopy of it [I copied it when I was a graduate student, long before the days of pdfs].  If a pdf does not emerge soon, I will get one of the local computer shops to convert it into a pdf.

Best wishes,

George

On Wed, Apr 26, 2017 at 1:30 PM, Asko Parpola via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info<mailto:indology at list.indology.info>> wrote:
I would like to have a copy as well. With best regards,

On Wed, Apr 26, 2017 at 5:33 PM, Hock, Hans Henrich via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info<mailto:indology at list.indology.info>> wrote:
If this is available, I?d like a copy (or a link) too.

Best wishes,

Hans Henrich Hock


On 26 Apr 2017, at 00:49, Arlo Griffiths via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info<mailto:indology at list.indology.info>> wrote:

Dear colleagues,

Does anyone happen to have a pdf of this classic work?


Renou, Louis. 1947. Les ?coles v?diques et la formation du Veda. Cahiers de la Soci?t? asiatique 9. Paris: Imprimerie nationale.

Thank you.

Arlo Griffiths
_______________________________________________
INDOLOGY mailing list
INDOLOGY at list.indology.info<mailto:INDOLOGY at list.indology.info>
indology-owner at list.indology.info<mailto:indology-owner at list.indology.info> (messages to the list's managing committee)
http://listinfo.indology.info<http://listinfo.indology.info/> (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe)


_______________________________________________
INDOLOGY mailing list
INDOLOGY at list.indology.info<mailto:INDOLOGY at list.indology.info>
indology-owner at list.indology.info<mailto:indology-owner at list.indology.info> (messages to the list's managing committee)
http://listinfo.indology.info<http://listinfo.indology.info/> (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe)



--
Asko Parpola, aparpola at gmail.com<mailto:aparpola at gmail.com>
http://orcid.org/0000-0002-9484-3732

_______________________________________________
INDOLOGY mailing list
INDOLOGY at list.indology.info<mailto:INDOLOGY at list.indology.info>
indology-owner at list.indology.info<mailto:indology-owner at list.indology.info> (messages to the list's managing committee)
http://listinfo.indology.info<http://listinfo.indology.info/> (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe)

_______________________________________________
INDOLOGY mailing list
INDOLOGY at list.indology.info<mailto:INDOLOGY at list.indology.info>
indology-owner at list.indology.info<mailto:indology-owner at list.indology.info> (messages to the list's managing committee)
http://listinfo.indology.info<http://listinfo.indology.info/> (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe)

_______________________________________________
INDOLOGY mailing list
INDOLOGY at list.indology.info<mailto:INDOLOGY at list.indology.info>
indology-owner at list.indology.info<mailto:indology-owner at list.indology.info> (messages to the list's managing committee)
http://listinfo.indology.info<http://listinfo.indology.info/> (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe)




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From swright at nalandauniv.edu.in  Thu Apr 27 03:22:30 2017
From: swright at nalandauniv.edu.in (Samuel Wright)
Date: Wed, 26 Apr 17 23:22:30 -0400
Subject: =?utf-8?Q?[INDOLOGY]_=C5=9Bastyayana?=
Message-ID: <CADaCuGcr=f-OTtfx1yD-EsRaxLV3S6ipQSGEzWZL_4REqy8dgg@mail.gmail.com>

Dear List,

I am trying to find information on a ??astyayana? ceremony. I have come
across a reference to this in something I am reading from the 18th century
(Bengal). I am not able to find any information about this ceremony,
however.

Might someone be able to suggest where to look?

Thanks,
Sam


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From swright at nalandauniv.edu.in  Thu Apr 27 05:34:21 2017
From: swright at nalandauniv.edu.in (Samuel Wright)
Date: Thu, 27 Apr 17 01:34:21 -0400
Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_[INDOLOGY]_=C5=9Bastyayana?=
In-Reply-To: <CADaCuGcr=f-OTtfx1yD-EsRaxLV3S6ipQSGEzWZL_4REqy8dgg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CADaCuGckF0mTVUp7b+UrQ1orv=Tep4rh5KKRf8otsBxK+=Hrzg@mail.gmail.com>

Thanks to those who replied off list --

Cheers,
Sam

On Wed, Apr 26, 2017 at 11:22 PM, Samuel Wright <swright at nalandauniv.edu.in>
wrote:

> Dear List,
>
> I am trying to find information on a ??astyayana? ceremony. I have come
> across a reference to this in something I am reading from the 18th century
> (Bengal). I am not able to find any information about this ceremony,
> however.
>
> Might someone be able to suggest where to look?
>
> Thanks,
> Sam
>


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From hspier.muktabodha at gmail.com  Thu Apr 27 14:53:14 2017
From: hspier.muktabodha at gmail.com (Harry Spier)
Date: Thu, 27 Apr 17 10:53:14 -0400
Subject: [INDOLOGY] T. N. Dharmadhikari's Taittiriya Samhita
Message-ID: <CAPW7aQFu-t8_5gXx41dGGfqQthmp1Bnk=jcfS4aLtX8FgmuzUw@mail.gmail.com>

Dear list members,

Can someone give me the bibliographic information for the volume of  Dr. T.
N. Dharmadhikari's edition of the Taittiriya Samhita that contains book 4.
 (especially the publisher and volume).

Many thanks,
Harry Spier


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From slaje at kabelmail.de  Thu Apr 27 15:48:00 2017
From: slaje at kabelmail.de (Walter Slaje)
Date: Thu, 27 Apr 17 17:48:00 +0200
Subject: [INDOLOGY] The Messenger in Sanskrit Inscriptions (Publication Announcement)
In-Reply-To: <CALoZ1nWtEPD_ud9nyHNd_itJz8LFee66oyvouDJQPf-bgt9zTQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CALoZ1nXTv_E6Vyw=kg_xsbw7=6-Uubyxqjx1LWKimEfDKMXZ0w@mail.gmail.com>

Dear Colleagues,

I regret that some of you have met with obstacles in their attempt to order
copies of Katrin Einicke's "Messenger" via the online bookshop of the
publisher.
The book is now conveniently available with Amazon.de:
http://tinyurl.com/mqodexs

Sorry for the inconvenience,
Walter Slaje


2017-04-06 15:33 GMT+02:00 Walter Slaje <slaje at kabelmail.de>:

> On behalf of *l?autrice*, it is my pleasure to announce the publication
> of her study on the function and tasks of a ?messenger? in the context of
> Sanskrit inscriptions.
>
> A sifting of about 3.600 published inscriptions (3rd to 12th centuries)
> in Br?hm?- and N?gar?-scripts yielded 230 documents issued by more than 40
> dynasties containing information relevant to the subject. The
> documentation, analysis and evaluation of these significant inscriptions
> form the core of the book, which has been written in the German language:
>
>
> Katrin Einicke, Der Bote im vormodernen Indien. Nach inschriftlichen
> Quellen.
>
> Halle: Universit?tsverlag Halle-Wittenberg 2017. (Studia Indologica
> Universitatis Halensis. 9). pp. 178, EUR 59,--
>
> ISBN 978-3-86977-160-1
>
>
>
> https://uvhw.de/studia-indologica-universitatis-halensis/
> product/170230_08-160-1.html
>
>
> Regards,
>
> WS
>
>
> -----------------------------
> Prof. Dr. Walter Slaje
> Hermann-L?ns-Str. 1
> D-99425 Weimar
> Deutschland
>
> Ego ex animi mei sententia spondeo ac polliceor
> studia humanitatis impigro labore culturum et provecturum
> non sordidi lucri causa nec ad vanam captandam gloriam,
> sed quo magis veritas propagetur et lux eius, qua salus
> humani generis continetur, clarius effulgeat.
> Vindobonae, die XXI. mensis Novembris MCMLXXXIII.
>


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From dnreigle at gmail.com  Thu Apr 27 15:53:45 2017
From: dnreigle at gmail.com (David and Nancy Reigle)
Date: Thu, 27 Apr 17 09:53:45 -0600
Subject: [INDOLOGY] T. N. Dharmadhikari's Taittiriya Samhita
In-Reply-To: <CAPW7aQFu-t8_5gXx41dGGfqQthmp1Bnk=jcfS4aLtX8FgmuzUw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAPAZekYSN0fwG=qgDPbx1-hdj7_OJmuznFbP+xOwx1NX0MFduA@mail.gmail.com>

Dear Harry,

K???a 4 of the *Taittir?ya Sa?hit?* in T. N. Dharmadhikari's edition is in
Vol. III, Part I, Pune: Vaidika Sa??odhana Ma??ala, 1990.


Best regards,


David Reigle

Colorado, U.S.A.

On Thu, Apr 27, 2017 at 8:53 AM, Harry Spier via INDOLOGY <
indology at list.indology.info> wrote:

> Dear list members,
>
> Can someone give me the bibliographic information for the volume of  Dr.
> T. N. Dharmadhikari's edition of the Taittiriya Samhita that contains book
> 4.  (especially the publisher and volume).
>
> Many thanks,
> Harry Spier
>
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
> committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
> unsubscribe)
>


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From hspier.muktabodha at gmail.com  Fri Apr 28 01:58:58 2017
From: hspier.muktabodha at gmail.com (Harry Spier)
Date: Thu, 27 Apr 17 21:58:58 -0400
Subject: [INDOLOGY] New e-texts added to the Muktabodha Digital Library
Message-ID: <CAPW7aQHKNJELQ=RjRmurbU4JFX-R_f+oCC6eoxuSNpjTgLBzQA@mail.gmail.com>

Dear list members,

The following e-texts have been added to the Muktabodha Digital Library:

1) k?myakarmakamal? a paddhati on the worship of the Goddess
tripurasundar?. It is by pr??ama?jar? and is one of the few sanskrit texts
written by a woman. From NGMCP manuscript 5-1922 .

2) haya?ir?a-pa?car?tra a Vai??ava pa?car?tra dealing exclusively with the
construction, reconstruction of temples, erection and consecration of
images.

3) k?lik? pur??a a pur??? dedicated to the worship of k?l?.

4) kulac???ma?i nigama a kaula tantra.

5) mah?guhyak?l?vidh?nam a paddhati on the worship of k?l? from NGMCP
manuscript 2048 .

6) mah?lak?m?d?pad?navidhi? a paddhati on the worship of mah?lak?m? from
NGMCP manuscript 1571.


Harry Spier
Manager, Muktabodha Digital Library


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From paoloe.rosati at gmail.com  Fri Apr 28 09:43:30 2017
From: paoloe.rosati at gmail.com (Paolo Eugenio Rosati)
Date: Fri, 28 Apr 17 11:43:30 +0200
Subject: [INDOLOGY] ARTICLE REQUEST
Message-ID: <CAMOCTf-gtSoYk7JuaQ_HQxVEZo_nYpLbTn6S5VvWqk4o1Ap63Q@mail.gmail.com>

Dear Indologists,

Anyone has a pdf of this article:

Marylin Stablein. 1978. "Textual and Contextual Patterns of Tibetan
Buddhist Pilgrimage in India". *Tibet Society Bulletin* 12: 7--38.

Best,
Paolo


-- 
*Paolo E. Rosati *
Oriental Archaeologist
PhD candidate in *Civilizations of Asia and Africa*
(South Asia Section)
Italian Institute of Oriental Studies
'Sapienza' University of Rome

*https://uniroma1.academia.edu/PaoloRosati/
<https://uniroma1.academia.edu/PaoloRosati/>*
paoloe.rosati at uniroma1.it
paoloe.rosati at gmail.com
Skype: paoloe.rosati
Mobile: (+39) 338 73 83 472


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From kmcgrath at fas.harvard.edu  Fri Apr 28 21:09:55 2017
From: kmcgrath at fas.harvard.edu (McGrath, Kevin)
Date: Fri, 28 Apr 17 21:09:55 +0000
Subject: =?utf-8?Q?[INDOLOGY]_R=C4=81ja_Yudhi=E1=B9=A3=E1=B9=ADhira?=
Message-ID: <BN3PR0701MB1734500EE096E17090250CA88D130@BN3PR0701MB1734.namprd07.prod.outlook.com>


  Dear Colleagues,


I would like to announce the publication of 'R?ja Yudhi??hira, Kingship in Epic Mah?bh?rata'.


This is published simultaneously here in America by Cornell UP and by Orient Black Swan in Delhi.


The flyer and cover image are attached.


The book is similar in concepts and methods to my other MBh. works:


The Sanskrit Hero, Kar?a in Epic Mah?bh?rata (Brill, 2004); Str?, Women in Epic Mah?bh?rata (Harvard UP, 2009, and Orient Black Swan, 2011); Jaya, Performance in Epic Mah?bh?rata (HUP, 2011); Heroic K???a, Friendship in Epic Mah?bh?rata (HUP, 2013); and Arjuna P???ava, The Double Hero in Epic Mah?bh?rata (OBS, 2016).


With best wishes, from,


   Kevin.





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From zydenbos at uni-muenchen.de  Sat Apr 29 01:46:35 2017
From: zydenbos at uni-muenchen.de (Robert Zydenbos)
Date: Sat, 29 Apr 17 03:46:35 +0200
Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_[INDOLOGY]_Renou,_=C3=89coles?=
In-Reply-To: <CAB3-dzfXBEP=uoUfhFjHsrtNpfhFVsWSGu+TVcVCi9Ykh-4sGg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5903F07B.8050801@uni-muenchen.de>


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From hspier.muktabodha at gmail.com  Sat Apr 29 04:09:50 2017
From: hspier.muktabodha at gmail.com (Harry Spier)
Date: Sat, 29 Apr 17 00:09:50 -0400
Subject: [INDOLOGY] More e-texts added to Muktabodha digital library
Message-ID: <CAPW7aQGeNfEeR=UZyyoY8XtOp61CnHZyPBTPvXy22mU0Bqj4rg@mail.gmail.com>

Dear list members,

In addition to the e-texts announced yesterday 17 more e-texts have now
been added to the Muktabodha Digital Library.

These are:

1. A searchable text of par?tri??ik?vivara?a also known as
par?tri?ik?viv?t? by abhinavagupta. Volume KSTS series volume 18. A
photocopy of the printed KSTS edition is in the Muktabodha library under
the title par?tri?ik?viv?t? .


2. muku??gama (also called makuTAgama) . This text is quoted in the
tantr?loka . Another ?aiv?gama by this name (but quite different) belonging
to the li?g?yat canon is already in the Muktabodha digital library. This is
from IFP/EFEO paper transcript T00247


3. m?tyu?jayakalpa a ?aiva tantra from NGMCP manuscript 4-286


*And the following 14 paddhatis (ritual manuals) from Nepalese manuscripts*


4. mah?lak?m?p?j?vidhi? from NGMCP manuscript 1696/2310

5. mantrad?navidhi from NGMCP manuscript 2690

6. kal?gniyaj?avidhi from NGMCP manuscript 1696/2203

7. ka??rcanavidhi of siddhalak?m?dev? from NGMCP manuscript reel no: A
1232/17

8. madhyap??hap?j?vidhi from NGMCP manuscript 1062

9. phe?akaprati??h?ca??ik?gnividhi from NGMCP manuscript ? reel no: v 192/15

10. siddhilak?m? ?r?mika from NGMCP manuscript no: 1399

11. siddhilak?m?devy?rcana from NGMCP manuscript 1373

12. siddhilak?m?ko?y?hutidinak?tya from NGMCP manuscript 1365

13. siddhilak?m?yut?k?aram?l?mantra from NGMCP manuscript 1397

14. ucchi??ac????lin?kalpa from NGMCP manuscript 52

15. ugraca???p?j?paddhati from NGMCP manuscript 1696/979

16. urddhv?mn?ya daman?roha?apaddhati from NGMCP manuscript 126 reel B
178/18

17. urddhv?mn?yap?j?vidhi from NGMCP manuscript 126 reel B 179/3


Harry Spier

Manager, Muktabodha Digital Library


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From nakeerthi at gmail.com  Sat Apr 29 05:24:29 2017
From: nakeerthi at gmail.com (naresh keerthi)
Date: Sat, 29 Apr 17 10:54:29 +0530
Subject: =?utf-8?Q?[INDOLOGY]_Dhara=E1=B9=87=C4=ABko=C5=9Ba_of_Dhara=E1=B9=87=C4=ABd=C4=81sa?=
Message-ID: <CACcR+FDi+guJsvLtn_Uz9FF2LG4mtiHFNckGZZiCUDpfEuoYvg@mail.gmail.com>

Dear List members,



I would be grateful if anyone has a pdf of the following text, that they
can share. If a pdf is not available, I would be grateful if the verse(s)
glossing the lexeme ?*aru?a*? can be shared, with chapter/ verse number(s)
and page number(s).



Dhara??ko?a of Dhara??d?sa (also known as *Anek?rthas?ra*) edited by
E.D.Kulkarni.  Pune: Deccan College Building Centenary and Silver Jubilee
Series #8. 1968.



Thanks,

Naresh Keerthi

NIAS, Bangalore


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From vjroebuck at btinternet.com  Sat Apr 29 06:17:19 2017
From: vjroebuck at btinternet.com (Valerie Roebuck)
Date: Sat, 29 Apr 17 07:17:19 +0100
Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_[INDOLOGY]_Renou,_=C3=89coles?=
In-Reply-To: <5903F07B.8050801@uni-muenchen.de>
Message-ID: <5A8A3AA7-2152-4B85-950B-E9F38F6209A6@btinternet.com>

Me, too, please!

Valerie J Roebuck
Manchester, UK

> On 29 Apr 2017, at 02:46, Robert Zydenbos via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info> wrote:
> 
> Please add me to the list of interested persons as well.
> 
> RZ
> 
> Madhav Deshpande via INDOLOGY wrote:
>> Hi George, if you do scan this work, do send it to me. 
>> 
>> Madhav 
>> 
>> 
>> On Wed, Apr 26, 2017 at 3:30 PM Hock, Hans Henrich via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info <mailto:indology at list.indology.info>> wrote:
>> Wonderful, George!
>> 
>> All the best,
>> 
>> Hans Henrich
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>> On Apr 26, 2017, at 14:05, George Thompson <gthomgt at gmail.com <mailto:gthomgt at gmail.com>> wrote:
>> 
>>> Dear Arlo, Hans, and Asko,
>>> 
>>> I don't have a pdf of this book, but I have photocopy of it [I copied it when I was a graduate student, long before the days of pdfs].  If a pdf does not emerge soon, I will get one of the local computer shops to convert it into a pdf.
>>> 
>>> Best wishes,
>>> 
>>> George
>>> 
>>> On Wed, Apr 26, 2017 at 1:30 PM, Asko Parpola via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info <mailto:indology at list.indology.info>> wrote:
>>> I would like to have a copy as well. With best regards,
>>> 
>>> On Wed, Apr 26, 2017 at 5:33 PM, Hock, Hans Henrich via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info <mailto:indology at list.indology.info>> wrote:
>>> If this is available, I?d like a copy (or a link) too.
>>> 
>>> Best wishes,
>>> 
>>> Hans Henrich Hock
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On 26 Apr 2017, at 00:49, Arlo Griffiths via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info <mailto:indology at list.indology.info>> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> Dear colleagues,
>>>> 
>>>> Does anyone happen to have a pdf of this classic work?
>>>> 
>>>> Renou, Louis. 1947. Les ?coles v?diques et la formation du Veda. Cahiers de la Soci?t? asiatique 9. Paris: Imprimerie nationale.
>>>> 
>>>> Thank you.
>>>> 
>>>> Arlo Griffiths
>>>> 
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe)



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From philipp.a.maas at gmail.com  Sat Apr 29 09:03:05 2017
From: philipp.a.maas at gmail.com (Philipp Maas)
Date: Sat, 29 Apr 17 11:03:05 +0200
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Request for an article by O. Strauss.
Message-ID: <CAOuG4CaB+62UFUfPFYiF72n3-+Pcbgqs0kxO=gTZcaUwx4igNA@mail.gmail.com>

Dear Colleagues,
Does anyone have access to a PDF of the following paper that she or he
could share: Strauss, Otto. Eine alte Formel der Sa?m?khya-yoga-philosophie
bei Va?tsya?yana. In: Willibald Kirfel (ed.). Beitra?ge zur
Literaturwissenschaft und Geistesgeschichte Indiens. Festgabe Hermann
Jacobi zum 75. Geburtstag. Bonn 1926, pp. 358-368?

I could neither find the article on google books nor on archive.org.

With many thanks in advance,

Philipp
__________________________

Dr. Philipp A. Maas
Research Associate
Institut f?r Indologie und Zentralasienwissenschaften
Universit?t Leipzig
___________________________

https://spp1448.academia.edu/PhilippMaas

<https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail>
Virenfrei.
www.avast.com
<https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail>
<#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>


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From beitel at gwu.edu  Sat Apr 29 12:05:00 2017
From: beitel at gwu.edu (Alfred Hiltebeitel)
Date: Sat, 29 Apr 17 08:05:00 -0400
Subject: [INDOLOGY] More e-texts added to Muktabodha digital library
In-Reply-To: <CAPW7aQGeNfEeR=UZyyoY8XtOp61CnHZyPBTPvXy22mU0Bqj4rg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CADRWd6E6neHGO5gafia=JPH3c2v42+BHvpHrz8APbrePca905Q@mail.gmail.com>

Dear George,
Me too,if yo can.
Alf

On Sat, Apr 29, 2017 at 12:09 AM, Harry Spier via INDOLOGY <
indology at list.indology.info> wrote:

> Dear list members,
>
> In addition to the e-texts announced yesterday 17 more e-texts have now
> been added to the Muktabodha Digital Library.
>
> These are:
>
> 1. A searchable text of par?tri??ik?vivara?a also known as
> par?tri?ik?viv?t? by abhinavagupta. Volume KSTS series volume 18. A
> photocopy of the printed KSTS edition is in the Muktabodha library under
> the title par?tri?ik?viv?t? .
>
>
> 2. muku??gama (also called makuTAgama) . This text is quoted in the
> tantr?loka . Another ?aiv?gama by this name (but quite different) belonging
> to the li?g?yat canon is already in the Muktabodha digital library. This is
> from IFP/EFEO paper transcript T00247
>
>
> 3. m?tyu?jayakalpa a ?aiva tantra from NGMCP manuscript 4-286
>
>
> *And the following 14 paddhatis (ritual manuals) from Nepalese manuscripts*
>
>
> 4. mah?lak?m?p?j?vidhi? from NGMCP manuscript 1696/2310
>
> 5. mantrad?navidhi from NGMCP manuscript 2690
>
> 6. kal?gniyaj?avidhi from NGMCP manuscript 1696/2203
>
> 7. ka??rcanavidhi of siddhalak?m?dev? from NGMCP manuscript reel no: A
> 1232/17
>
> 8. madhyap??hap?j?vidhi from NGMCP manuscript 1062
>
> 9. phe?akaprati??h?ca??ik?gnividhi from NGMCP manuscript ? reel no: v
> 192/15
>
> 10. siddhilak?m? ?r?mika from NGMCP manuscript no: 1399
>
> 11. siddhilak?m?devy?rcana from NGMCP manuscript 1373
>
> 12. siddhilak?m?ko?y?hutidinak?tya from NGMCP manuscript 1365
>
> 13. siddhilak?m?yut?k?aram?l?mantra from NGMCP manuscript 1397
>
> 14. ucchi??ac????lin?kalpa from NGMCP manuscript 52
>
> 15. ugraca???p?j?paddhati from NGMCP manuscript 1696/979
>
> 16. urddhv?mn?ya daman?roha?apaddhati from NGMCP manuscript 126 reel B
> 178/18
>
> 17. urddhv?mn?yap?j?vidhi from NGMCP manuscript 126 reel B 179/3
>
>
> Harry Spier
>
> Manager, Muktabodha Digital Library
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
> committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
> unsubscribe)
>



-- 
Alf Hiltebeitel
Professor of Religion, History and Human Sciences
Department of Religion
George Washington University
2106 G Street, NW
Washington DC, 20052


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From beitel at gwu.edu  Sat Apr 29 12:07:20 2017
From: beitel at gwu.edu (Alfred Hiltebeitel)
Date: Sat, 29 Apr 17 08:07:20 -0400
Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_[INDOLOGY]_Renou,_=C3=89coles?=
In-Reply-To: <5A8A3AA7-2152-4B85-950B-E9F38F6209A6@btinternet.com>
Message-ID: <CADRWd6FTWq3tmZ2q=qxFwM+xLktyp+6RSQXp6VREFzgvx1Qb_g@mail.gmail.com>

Dear George,
I would like a copy too.
Alf

On Sat, Apr 29, 2017 at 2:17 AM, Valerie Roebuck via INDOLOGY <
indology at list.indology.info> wrote:

> Me, too, please!
>
> Valerie J Roebuck
> Manchester, UK
>
> On 29 Apr 2017, at 02:46, Robert Zydenbos via INDOLOGY <
> indology at list.indology.info> wrote:
>
> Please add me to the list of interested persons as well.
>
> RZ
>
> Madhav Deshpande via INDOLOGY wrote:
>
> Hi George, if you do scan this work, do send it to me.
>
> Madhav
>
>
> On Wed, Apr 26, 2017 at 3:30 PM Hock, Hans Henrich via INDOLOGY <
> indology at list.indology.info> wrote:
>
>> Wonderful, George!
>>
>> All the best,
>>
>> Hans Henrich
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> On Apr 26, 2017, at 14:05, George Thompson <gthomgt at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Dear Arlo, Hans, and Asko,
>>
>> I don't have a pdf of this book, but I have photocopy of it [I copied it
>> when I was a graduate student, long before the days of pdfs].  If a pdf
>> does not emerge soon, I will get one of the local computer shops to convert
>> it into a pdf.
>>
>> Best wishes,
>>
>> George
>>
>> On Wed, Apr 26, 2017 at 1:30 PM, Asko Parpola via INDOLOGY <
>> indology at list.indology.info> wrote:
>>
>>> I would like to have a copy as well. With best regards,
>>>
>>> On Wed, Apr 26, 2017 at 5:33 PM, Hock, Hans Henrich via INDOLOGY <
>>> indology at list.indology.info> wrote:
>>>
>>>> If this is available, I?d like a copy (or a link) too.
>>>>
>>>> Best wishes,
>>>>
>>>> Hans Henrich Hock
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 26 Apr 2017, at 00:49, Arlo Griffiths via INDOLOGY <
>>>> indology at list.indology.info> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Dear colleagues,
>>>>
>>>> Does anyone happen to have a pdf of this classic work?
>>>>
>>>> Renou, Louis. 1947. *Les ?coles v?diques et la formation du Veda*.
>>>> Cahiers de la Soci?t? asiatique 9. Paris: Imprimerie nationale.
>>>>
>>>> Thank you.
>>>>
>>>> Arlo Griffiths
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
> committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
> unsubscribe)
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
> committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
> unsubscribe)
>



-- 
Alf Hiltebeitel
Professor of Religion, History and Human Sciences
Department of Religion
George Washington University
2106 G Street, NW
Washington DC, 20052


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From kmcgrath at fas.harvard.edu  Sat Apr 29 15:03:04 2017
From: kmcgrath at fas.harvard.edu (McGrath, Kevin)
Date: Sat, 29 Apr 17 15:03:04 +0000
Subject: =?utf-8?Q?[INDOLOGY]_R=C4=81ja_Yudhi=E1=B9=A3=E1=B9=ADhira?=
Message-ID: <BN3PR0701MB173471A98A5A733827C9E6238D120@BN3PR0701MB1734.namprd07.prod.outlook.com>


  Dear Colleagues,


I would like to announce the publication of 'R?ja Yudhi??hira, Kingship in Epic Mah?bh?rata'.


This is published simultaneously here in America by Cornell UP and by Orient Black Swan in Delhi.


The book is similar in concepts and methods to my other MBh. works:


The Sanskrit Hero, Kar?a in Epic Mah?bh?rata (Brill, 2004); Str?, Women in Epic Mah?bh?rata (Harvard UP, 2009, and Orient Black Swan, 2011); Jaya, Performance in Epic Mah?bh?rata (HUP, 2011); Heroic K???a, Friendship in Epic Mah?bh?rata (HUP, 2013); and Arjuna P???ava, The Double Hero in Epic Mah?bh?rata (OBS, 2016).


With best wishes, from,


   Kevin.



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From philipp.a.maas at gmail.com  Sat Apr 29 16:01:19 2017
From: philipp.a.maas at gmail.com (philipp.a.maas)
Date: Sat, 29 Apr 17 18:01:19 +0200
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Many thanks for providing a PDF
Message-ID: <5904b894.27ba500a.d098a.27ce@mx.google.com>

Many thanks to Marcus Schm?cker and Peter Pasesach for instantly providing me with the desired article.

Best wishes,

Philipp

Enviado atrav?s de Huawei Mobile




From gthomgt at gmail.com  Sat Apr 29 22:58:26 2017
From: gthomgt at gmail.com (George Thompson)
Date: Sat, 29 Apr 17 18:58:26 -0400
Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_[INDOLOGY]_Renou,_=C3=89coles?=
In-Reply-To: <CADRWd6FTWq3tmZ2q=qxFwM+xLktyp+6RSQXp6VREFzgvx1Qb_g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAP1Y1zsqc8hJ6POw=MWiAXv4vVnYkXt23EfFvhhoaW5+EekNJg@mail.gmail.com>

Dear List,

To all of you who have asked for the pdf of Renou's *Les ?coles v?diques, *I
promise to send it to you all on Monday.  I am involved in family affairs
this weekend.  I have just become a grandfather!

Best wishes,

George

On Sat, Apr 29, 2017 at 8:07 AM, Alfred Hiltebeitel via INDOLOGY <
indology at list.indology.info> wrote:

> Dear George,
> I would like a copy too.
> Alf
>
> On Sat, Apr 29, 2017 at 2:17 AM, Valerie Roebuck via INDOLOGY <
> indology at list.indology.info> wrote:
>
>> Me, too, please!
>>
>> Valerie J Roebuck
>> Manchester, UK
>>
>> On 29 Apr 2017, at 02:46, Robert Zydenbos via INDOLOGY <
>> indology at list.indology.info> wrote:
>>
>> Please add me to the list of interested persons as well.
>>
>> RZ
>>
>> Madhav Deshpande via INDOLOGY wrote:
>>
>> Hi George, if you do scan this work, do send it to me.
>>
>> Madhav
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Apr 26, 2017 at 3:30 PM Hock, Hans Henrich via INDOLOGY <
>> indology at list.indology.info> wrote:
>>
>>> Wonderful, George!
>>>
>>> All the best,
>>>
>>> Hans Henrich
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>
>>> On Apr 26, 2017, at 14:05, George Thompson <gthomgt at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> Dear Arlo, Hans, and Asko,
>>>
>>> I don't have a pdf of this book, but I have photocopy of it [I copied it
>>> when I was a graduate student, long before the days of pdfs].  If a pdf
>>> does not emerge soon, I will get one of the local computer shops to convert
>>> it into a pdf.
>>>
>>> Best wishes,
>>>
>>> George
>>>
>>> On Wed, Apr 26, 2017 at 1:30 PM, Asko Parpola via INDOLOGY <
>>> indology at list.indology.info> wrote:
>>>
>>>> I would like to have a copy as well. With best regards,
>>>>
>>>> On Wed, Apr 26, 2017 at 5:33 PM, Hock, Hans Henrich via INDOLOGY <
>>>> indology at list.indology.info> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> If this is available, I?d like a copy (or a link) too.
>>>>>
>>>>> Best wishes,
>>>>>
>>>>> Hans Henrich Hock
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On 26 Apr 2017, at 00:49, Arlo Griffiths via INDOLOGY <
>>>>> indology at list.indology.info> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Dear colleagues,
>>>>>
>>>>> Does anyone happen to have a pdf of this classic work?
>>>>>
>>>>> Renou, Louis. 1947. *Les ?coles v?diques et la formation du Veda*.
>>>>> Cahiers de la Soci?t? asiatique 9. Paris: Imprimerie nationale.
>>>>>
>>>>> Thank you.
>>>>>
>>>>> Arlo Griffiths
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
>> committee)
>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
>> unsubscribe)
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
>> committee)
>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
>> unsubscribe)
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Alf Hiltebeitel
> Professor of Religion, History and Human Sciences
> Department of Religion
> George Washington University
> 2106 G Street, NW
> Washington DC, 20052
>
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
> committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
> unsubscribe)
>


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From ondracka at ff.cuni.cz  Sat Apr 29 23:24:40 2017
From: ondracka at ff.cuni.cz (=?utf-8?Q?Lubom=C3=ADr_Ondra=C4=8Dka?=)
Date: Sun, 30 Apr 17 01:24:40 +0200
Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_[INDOLOGY]_Renou,_=C3=89coles?=
In-Reply-To: <CAP1Y1zsqc8hJ6POw=MWiAXv4vVnYkXt23EfFvhhoaW5+EekNJg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20170430012440.508128930da609884117051c@ff.cuni.cz>

Dear All,

I am afraid that those still asking for Renou's book overlooked (or did not receive) an e-mail sent by Jan Houben with a link to an excelent (and OCR) scan of the book:

http://list.indology.info/pipermail/indology_list.indology.info/2017-April/045787.html

Best,
Lubomir


On Sat, 29 Apr 2017 18:58:26 -0400
George Thompson via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info> wrote:

> Dear List,
> 
> To all of you who have asked for the pdf of Renou's *Les ?coles v?diques, *I
> promise to send it to you all on Monday.  I am involved in family affairs
> this weekend.  I have just become a grandfather!
> 
> Best wishes,
> 
> George
> 
> On Sat, Apr 29, 2017 at 8:07 AM, Alfred Hiltebeitel via INDOLOGY <
> indology at list.indology.info> wrote:
> 
> > Dear George,
> > I would like a copy too.
> > Alf
> >
> > On Sat, Apr 29, 2017 at 2:17 AM, Valerie Roebuck via INDOLOGY <
> > indology at list.indology.info> wrote:
> >
> >> Me, too, please!
> >>
> >> Valerie J Roebuck
> >> Manchester, UK
> >>
> >> On 29 Apr 2017, at 02:46, Robert Zydenbos via INDOLOGY <
> >> indology at list.indology.info> wrote:
> >>
> >> Please add me to the list of interested persons as well.
> >>
> >> RZ
> >>
> >> Madhav Deshpande via INDOLOGY wrote:
> >>
> >> Hi George, if you do scan this work, do send it to me.
> >>
> >> Madhav
> >>
> >>
> >> On Wed, Apr 26, 2017 at 3:30 PM Hock, Hans Henrich via INDOLOGY <
> >> indology at list.indology.info> wrote:
> >>
> >>> Wonderful, George!
> >>>
> >>> All the best,
> >>>
> >>> Hans Henrich
> >>>
> >>> Sent from my iPhone
> >>>
> >>> On Apr 26, 2017, at 14:05, George Thompson <gthomgt at gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Dear Arlo, Hans, and Asko,
> >>>
> >>> I don't have a pdf of this book, but I have photocopy of it [I copied it
> >>> when I was a graduate student, long before the days of pdfs].  If a pdf
> >>> does not emerge soon, I will get one of the local computer shops to convert
> >>> it into a pdf.
> >>>
> >>> Best wishes,
> >>>
> >>> George
> >>>
> >>> On Wed, Apr 26, 2017 at 1:30 PM, Asko Parpola via INDOLOGY <
> >>> indology at list.indology.info> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> I would like to have a copy as well. With best regards,
> >>>>
> >>>> On Wed, Apr 26, 2017 at 5:33 PM, Hock, Hans Henrich via INDOLOGY <
> >>>> indology at list.indology.info> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>> If this is available, I?d like a copy (or a link) too.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Best wishes,
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Hans Henrich Hock
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> On 26 Apr 2017, at 00:49, Arlo Griffiths via INDOLOGY <
> >>>>> indology at list.indology.info> wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Dear colleagues,
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Does anyone happen to have a pdf of this classic work?
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Renou, Louis. 1947. *Les ?coles v?diques et la formation du Veda*.
> >>>>> Cahiers de la Soci?t? asiatique 9. Paris: Imprimerie nationale.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Thank you.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Arlo Griffiths
> >>>>>
> >>>>> _______________________________________________
> >> INDOLOGY mailing list
> >> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> >> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
> >> committee)
> >> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
> >> unsubscribe)
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> INDOLOGY mailing list
> >> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> >> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
> >> committee)
> >> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
> >> unsubscribe)
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Alf Hiltebeitel
> > Professor of Religion, History and Human Sciences
> > Department of Religion
> > George Washington University
> > 2106 G Street, NW
> > Washington DC, 20052
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > INDOLOGY mailing list
> > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
> > committee)
> > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
> > unsubscribe)
> >





From hr at ivs.edu  Sun Apr 30 02:49:01 2017
From: hr at ivs.edu (Howard Resnick)
Date: Sun, 30 Apr 17 05:49:01 +0300
Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_[INDOLOGY]_Renou,_=C3=89coles?=
In-Reply-To: <CAP1Y1zsqc8hJ6POw=MWiAXv4vVnYkXt23EfFvhhoaW5+EekNJg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4748FB09-CFB7-41C5-833D-9A355C36BBBA@ivs.edu>

Congratulations!

> On Apr 30, 2017, at 1:58 AM, George Thompson via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info> wrote:
> 
> Dear List,
> 
> To all of you who have asked for the pdf of Renou's Les ?coles v?diques, I promise to send it to you all on Monday.  I am involved in family affairs this weekend.  I have just become a grandfather!
> 
> Best wishes,
> 
> George
> 
> On Sat, Apr 29, 2017 at 8:07 AM, Alfred Hiltebeitel via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info <mailto:indology at list.indology.info>> wrote:
> Dear George, 
> I would like a copy too.
> Alf
> 
> On Sat, Apr 29, 2017 at 2:17 AM, Valerie Roebuck via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info <mailto:indology at list.indology.info>> wrote:
> Me, too, please!
> 
> Valerie J Roebuck
> Manchester, UK
> 
>> On 29 Apr 2017, at 02:46, Robert Zydenbos via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info <mailto:indology at list.indology.info>> wrote:
>> 
>> Please add me to the list of interested persons as well.
>> 
>> RZ
>> 
>> Madhav Deshpande via INDOLOGY wrote:
>>> Hi George, if you do scan this work, do send it to me. 
>>> 
>>> Madhav 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On Wed, Apr 26, 2017 at 3:30 PM Hock, Hans Henrich via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info <mailto:indology at list.indology.info>> wrote:
>>> Wonderful, George!
>>> 
>>> All the best,
>>> 
>>> Hans Henrich
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> 
>>> On Apr 26, 2017, at 14:05, George Thompson <gthomgt at gmail.com <mailto:gthomgt at gmail.com>> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> Dear Arlo, Hans, and Asko,
>>>> 
>>>> I don't have a pdf of this book, but I have photocopy of it [I copied it when I was a graduate student, long before the days of pdfs].  If a pdf does not emerge soon, I will get one of the local computer shops to convert it into a pdf.
>>>> 
>>>> Best wishes,
>>>> 
>>>> George
>>>> 
>>>> On Wed, Apr 26, 2017 at 1:30 PM, Asko Parpola via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info <mailto:indology at list.indology.info>> wrote:
>>>> I would like to have a copy as well. With best regards,
>>>> 
>>>> On Wed, Apr 26, 2017 at 5:33 PM, Hock, Hans Henrich via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info <mailto:indology at list.indology.info>> wrote:
>>>> If this is available, I?d like a copy (or a link) too.
>>>> 
>>>> Best wishes,
>>>> 
>>>> Hans Henrich Hock
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> On 26 Apr 2017, at 00:49, Arlo Griffiths via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info <mailto:indology at list.indology.info>> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> Dear colleagues,
>>>>> 
>>>>> Does anyone happen to have a pdf of this classic work?
>>>>> 
>>>>> Renou, Louis. 1947. Les ?coles v?diques et la formation du Veda. Cahiers de la Soci?t? asiatique 9. Paris: Imprimerie nationale.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Thank you.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Arlo Griffiths
>>>>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info <mailto:INDOLOGY at list.indology.info>
>> indology-owner at list.indology.info <mailto:indology-owner at list.indology.info> (messages to the list's managing committee)
>> http://listinfo.indology.info <http://listinfo.indology.info/> (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe)
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info <mailto:INDOLOGY at list.indology.info>
> indology-owner at list.indology.info <mailto:indology-owner at list.indology.info> (messages to the list's managing committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info <http://listinfo.indology.info/> (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe)
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Alf Hiltebeitel
> Professor of Religion, History and Human Sciences
> Department of Religion
> George Washington University
> 2106 G Street, NW
> Washington DC, 20052
> 
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info <mailto:INDOLOGY at list.indology.info>
> indology-owner at list.indology.info <mailto:indology-owner at list.indology.info> (messages to the list's managing committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info <http://listinfo.indology.info/> (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe)
> 
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe)



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From arlogriffiths at hotmail.com  Sun Apr 30 07:18:00 2017
From: arlogriffiths at hotmail.com (Arlo Griffiths)
Date: Sun, 30 Apr 17 07:18:00 +0000
Subject: =?utf-8?Q?[INDOLOGY]_Renou,_=C3=89coles_on_archive.org?=
In-Reply-To: <HE1PR0902MB17534EA68ED1C5B09248C950A5150@HE1PR0902MB1753.eurprd09.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <HE1PR0902MB1753A159FC7C5C1B2EE52AD8A5150@HE1PR0902MB1753.eurprd09.prod.outlook.com>


I have now uploaded the pdf to archive.org:


https://archive.org/details/Renou1947LesEcolesVediques

[https://archive.org/services/img/Renou1947LesEcolesVediques]<https://archive.org/details/Renou1947LesEcolesVediques>

Renou 1947 Les Ecoles Vediques : Louis Renou : Free Download & Streaming : Internet Archive<https://archive.org/details/Renou1947LesEcolesVediques>
archive.org
Renou, Louis. 1947. Les ?coles v?diques et la formation du Veda. Cahiers de la Soci?t? asiatique 9. Paris: Imprimerie nationale.



It should be available through that link soon.


Best wishes,


Arlo Griffiths




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