From rajam at earthlink.net  Thu Sep  1 00:03:52 2016
From: rajam at earthlink.net (rajam)
Date: Wed, 31 Aug 16 17:03:52 -0700
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Earliest attestation of the elements in Indian	thought?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.3792.1472667032.13775.indology_list.indology.info@list.indology.info>
Message-ID: <63128562-7278-4D30-A77C-431C0515AF48@earthlink.net>

>From the Tamil side ?

The Old Tamil text Purananuru (pu?an????u, ?????????) mentions the earth, sky, wind, fire, and water, and elegantly presents them as they are dovetailed.

Regards,
Rajam


> On Aug 31, 2016, at 11:11 AM, Dean Michael Anderson via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info> wrote:
> 
> 
> Date: August 31, 2016 at 11:07:38 AM PDT
> From: Dean Michael Anderson <eastwestcultural at yahoo.com>
> Reply-To: Dean Michael Anderson <eastwestcultural at yahoo.com>
> To: Indology List <indology at list.indology.info>
> Subject: Earliest attestation of the elements in Indian thought?
> 
> 
> Does anyone know which text has the earliest mention of the four or five elements?
> 
> Best,
> 
> Dean Anderson
> East West Cultural Institute
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe)



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From nagarajpaturi at gmail.com  Thu Sep  1 02:16:20 2016
From: nagarajpaturi at gmail.com (Nagaraj Paturi)
Date: Thu, 01 Sep 16 07:46:20 +0530
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Earliest attestation of the elements in Indian	thought?
In-Reply-To: <63128562-7278-4D30-A77C-431C0515AF48@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <CAJGj9eapPNL4-hE9OgDLv3_ZiFdqyVbbx6fN+0oG-AdgOvQoVw@mail.gmail.com>

The article by B V Subbarayappa available in pdf here,
<http://www.google.co.in/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=15&ved=0ahUKEwjbwZiYi-3OAhXEQY8KHYLkBXU4ChAWCCwwBA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.dli.gov.in%2Frawdataupload%2Fupload%2Finsa%2FINSA_1%2F20005aef_60.pdf&usg=AFQjCNHxAq7GGQRti9-C_td8Y4IS2ZAE9A&sig2=BE63NPZiLDrergGTjiqMSA&bvm=bv.131669213,d.c2I>
mentions Maitri Upanishad to be the origin.

On Thu, Sep 1, 2016 at 5:33 AM, rajam <rajam at earthlink.net> wrote:

> From the Tamil side ?
>
> The Old Tamil text Purananuru (pu?an????u, ?????????) mentions the earth,
> sky, wind, fire, and water, and elegantly presents them as they are
> dovetailed.
>
> Regards,
> Rajam
>
>
> On Aug 31, 2016, at 11:11 AM, Dean Michael Anderson via INDOLOGY <
> indology at list.indology.info> wrote:
>
>
> *Date: *August 31, 2016 at 11:07:38 AM PDT
> *From: *Dean Michael Anderson <eastwestcultural at yahoo.com>
> *Reply-To: *Dean Michael Anderson <eastwestcultural at yahoo.com>
> *To: *Indology List <indology at list.indology.info>
> *Subject: **Earliest attestation of the elements in Indian thought?*
>
>
> Does anyone know which text has the earliest mention of the four or five
> elements?
>
> Best,
>
> Dean Anderson
> East West Cultural Institute
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
> committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
> unsubscribe)
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
> committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
> unsubscribe)
>



-- 
Nagaraj Paturi

Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.

Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies

FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of  Liberal Education,

(Pune, Maharashtra, INDIA )


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From eastwestcultural at yahoo.com  Thu Sep  1 02:58:46 2016
From: eastwestcultural at yahoo.com (Dean Michael Anderson)
Date: Thu, 01 Sep 16 02:58:46 +0000
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Earliest attestation of the elements in Indian thought?
In-Reply-To: <CAJGj9eapPNL4-hE9OgDLv3_ZiFdqyVbbx6fN+0oG-AdgOvQoVw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <394114123.3606519.1472698726184@mail.yahoo.com>

Thanks!
Dean

      From: Nagaraj Paturi <nagarajpaturi at gmail.com>
 To: Dean Michael Anderson <eastwestcultural at yahoo.com>; Indology List <indology at list.indology.info> 
 Sent: Thursday, September 1, 2016 7:46 AM
 Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] Earliest attestation of the elements in Indian thought?
   
The article by B V Subbarayappa available in pdf here, mentions Maitri Upanishad to be the origin.
On Thu, Sep 1, 2016 at 5:33 AM, rajam <rajam at earthlink.net> wrote:

>From the Tamil side ?
The Old Tamil text Purananuru (pu?an????u, ?????????) mentions the earth, sky, wind, fire, and water, and elegantly presents them as they are dovetailed.
Regards,Rajam


On Aug 31, 2016, at 11:11 AM, Dean Michael Anderson via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info> wrote:

Date: August 31, 2016 at 11:07:38 AM PDT
From: Dean Michael Anderson <eastwestcultural at yahoo.com>
Reply-To: Dean Michael Anderson <eastwestcultural at yahoo.com>
To: Indology List <indology at list.indology.info>
Subject: Earliest attestation of the elements in Indian thought?


Does anyone know which text has the earliest mention of the four or five elements?
Best,
Dean AndersonEast West Cultural Institute


______________________________ _________________
INDOLOGY mailing list
INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
indology-owner at list.indology. info (messages to the list's managing committee)
http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe)


______________________________ _________________
INDOLOGY mailing list
INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
indology-owner at list.indology. info (messages to the list's managing committee)
http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe)




-- 
Nagaraj Paturi?Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.?Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies?FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of??Liberal Education,?(Pune, Maharashtra,?INDIA?)???

   


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From H.J.H.Tieken at hum.leidenuniv.nl  Thu Sep  1 07:10:18 2016
From: H.J.H.Tieken at hum.leidenuniv.nl (Tieken, H.J.H.)
Date: Thu, 01 Sep 16 07:10:18 +0000
Subject: [INDOLOGY] sad news
Message-ID: <EA8F815D502BC14097213C5D85BA1C6522D0EF99@SPMXM07.VUW.leidenuniv.nl>

Dear list members, it is a sad week for Dutch indology. On the 28th of August Teun Goudrian (M?y? Divine and Human, Vin??ikhatantra) has died at the age of 77, and on the 30th Max Sparreboom (Chariots in the Veda, The Ritual setting up of the Sacrificial Fires According to the V?dh?la School) at the age of 65. Max and I started our studies together in 1970 with Henk Bodewitz and Jan Heesterman. After temporary jobs at the Kern Institute Max worked for NWO, a Dutch funding organisation, was Dean of the Faculty of Humanities at the Erasmus Universiteit (Rotterdam), was Director of the IIAS in Leiden and Director of the Premium Erasmianum. Soon after his retirement in August last year he was diagnosed long cancer (he had stopped smoking some 40 years ago). In addition to his indological work Max published widely on salamanders. Recently a voluminous standard work on salamanders by him has appeared. His work on a book on salamaders in art was interrupted by his death.
Herman

Herman Tieken
Stationsweg 58
2515 BP Den Haag
The Netherlands
00 31 (0)70 2208127
website: hermantieken.com<http://hermantieken.com/>


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From asko.parpola at helsinki.fi  Thu Sep  1 11:00:57 2016
From: asko.parpola at helsinki.fi (asko.parpola at helsinki.fi)
Date: Thu, 01 Sep 16 14:00:57 +0300
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Teun Goudriaan and Max Sparreboom
In-Reply-To: <EA8F815D502BC14097213C5D85BA1C6522D0EF99@SPMXM07.VUW.leidenuniv.nl>
Message-ID: <20160901140057.Horde.rxpGzkN5mTGir_CaG68gcQ6@webmail.helsinki.fi>



I was really sad to hear about the passing of Teun Goudriaan and Max  
Sparreboom, who were my friends for decades, Teun Goudriaan since the  
1960s. While I have nothing to add to Herman Tieken's list of  
publications by Max Sparreboom, there is quite a lot to cover Teun's  
indological publications. As my farewell I list the following.  With  
regards, Asko Parpola


Goudriaan, Teunis, 1965. K??yapa's Book of wisdom. (Disputationes  
Rheno-Traiectinae, 10.) The Hague: Mouton & Co. 341 pp. (Ph.D. thesis,  
Utrecht 1965.) This is an annotated translation of an important  
Vaikh?nasa text.

Goudriaan, Teunis, 1970. Vaikh?nasa daily worship. Indo-Iranian  
Journal 12: 161-215.

Goudriaan, T., and C. Hooykaas, 1971. Stuti and stava (Bauddha, ?aiva  
and Vai??ava) of Balinese Brahman priests. (Verhandelingen der  
Koninklijke Nederlandse Akademie van Wetenschappen te Amsterdam,  
Afdeling Letterkunde, N.R. 76) Amsterdam: North-Holland Publishing  
Company. 609 pp., 8 ill.

Goudriaan, Teun, 1973. Tumburu and his sisters. WZKSA 17: 49-95.

Goudriaan, T., 1973. Deities of the tree-cutting ceremony in  
Vaikh?nasa ?gama. The Adyar Library Bulletin 37: 75-86.

Goudriaan, Teun, 1977. Kha?ga-R?va?a and his worship in Balinese and  
Indian Tantric sources. WZKSA 21: 143-169.

Goudriaan, Teun, 1978. M?y? divine and human: A study of magic and its  
religious foundations in Sanskrit texts, with particular attention to  
a fragment on Vi??u's M?y? preserved in Bali. Delhi: Motilal  
Banarsidass. xiv, 516 pp.

Goudriaan, Teun, and Sanjukta Gupta, 1981. Hindu Tantric and ??kta  
literature. (A history of Indian literature, ed. Jan Gonda, 2:2.)  
Wiesbaden: Otto Harrassowitz.

Goudriaan, Teun, 1985. The V????ikhatantra: A ?aiva Tantra of the left  
current. Edited with an introduction and a translation. Delhi: Motilal  
Banarsidass. viii, 162 pp.

Goudriaan, T., and J.A. Schoterman, 1988. The Kubjik?matatantra,  
Kul?lik?mn?ya version: Critical edition. (Orientalia Rheno-Traiectina,  
30.) Leiden: E.J. Brill. xii, 571 pp.

Goudriaan, T. (ed.), 1990. The Sanskrit tradition and tantrism.  
(Panels of the VIIth International Sanskrit Conference, Vol. 1.)  
Leiden: E.J. Brill. vii, 121 pp.

Goudriaan, Teun, 1990. The ?tman as charioteer: Treatment of a Vedic  
allegory in the Kul?lik?mn?ya. Pp. 43-55 in: T. Goudriaan (ed.), The  
Sanskrit tradition and tantrism. (Panels of the VIIth International  
Sanskrit Conference, Vol. 1.) Leiden: E.J. Brill.

Goudriaan, Teun (ed.), 1992. (Ed.) Ritual and speculation in early  
Tantrism: Studies in honor of Andr? Padoux. (SUNY series in Tantric  
studies.) Albany: State University of New York Press. xv, 359 p.,  
ill., index. Reprinted, (Sri Garib Dass Oriental Series, 163), Delhi:  
Sri Satguru Publications, 1993. CONTENTS:
Goudriaan, Teun, 1992. Preface. Pp. vii-xi. Goudriaan, Teun, 1992.  
Publications by Andr? Padoux. Pp. xii-xv. Brunner, H?l?ne, 1992. J??na  
and kriy?: Relation between theory and practice in the ?aiv?gamas. Pp.  
1-59. B?hnemann, Gudrun, 1992. On pura?cara?a: Kul?r?avatantra,  
chapter 15. Pp. 61-106. Davis, Richard H., 1992. Becoming a ?iva, and  
acting as one, in ?aiva worship. Pp. 107-119. Dviveda, Vrajavallabha,  
1992. "Having become a god, he should sacrifice to the gods." Pp.  
121-138. Goudriaan, Teun, 1992. The stages of awakening in the  
Svacchanda-Tantra. Pp. 139-173. Gupta, Sanjukta, 1992. Yoga and  
antary?ga in P??car?tra. Pp. 175-208. Hara, Minoru, 1992. P??upata  
studies (1). Pp. 209-226. Muller-Ortega, Paul E., 1992. Tantric  
meditation: Vocalic beginnings. Pp. 227-245. Rastogi, Navjivan, 1992.  
The Yogic disciplines in the monistic |aiva* Tantric* traditions of  
Kashmir: Threefold, fourfold, and six-limbed. Pp. 247-280. Sanderson,  
Alexis, 1992. The doctrine of the M?lin?vijayottaratantra. Pp.  
281-312. Schoterman, Jan A., 1992. The Kubjik? Upani?ad and its  
Atharvavedic character. Pp. 313-326.  Torella, Raffaele, 1992. The  
pratyabhij?? and the logical-epistemological school of Buddhism. Pp.  
327-345. Index of Sanskrit terms. Pp. 347-351. Index of names and  
subjects. Pp. 352-359.

Goudriaan, Teun, 1992. Preface. Pp. vii-xi in the above work.

Goudriaan, Teun, 1992. Publications by Andr? Padoux. Pp. xii-xv in the  
above work.

Goudriaan, Teun, 1992. The stages of awakening in the  
Svacchanda-Tantra. Pp. 139-173 in the above work.

Goudriaan, Teun, 1992. The pluriform ?tman. Wiener Zeitschrift f?r die  
Kunde S?dasiens 36.

Goudriaan, Teun, 1993. Obituary: Jan Gonda (14/4/1905 - 28/7/1991).  
Newsletter of the International Association of Sanskrit Studies 4:  
18-20. Stockholm & Torino: CESMEO.

Goudriaan, Teun, and Jan A. Schoterman, 1994. The Kubjik? Upani?ad,  
edited with a translation, introduction, notes and appendices.  
(Groningen Oriental Studies, 10.) Groningen: Egbert Forsten. viii, 180  
pp.

Goudriaan, Teun, 2002. Imagery of the self from Veda to Tantra. Pp.  
171-192 in: Katherine Anne Harper and Robert L. Brown (eds.), The  
roots of Tantra. (SUNY Series in Tantric Studies.) Albany: State  
University of New York Press.














Quoting "Tieken, H.J.H." <H.J.H.Tieken at hum.leidenuniv.nl>:

> Dear list members, it is a sad week for Dutch indology. On the 28th  
> of August Teun Goudrian (M?y? Divine and Human, Vin??ikhatantra) has  
> died at the age of 77, and on the 30th Max Sparreboom (Chariots in  
> the Veda, The Ritual setting up of the Sacrificial Fires According  
> to the V?dh?la School) at the age of 65. Max and I started our  
> studies together in 1970 with Henk Bodewitz and Jan Heesterman.  
> After temporary jobs at the Kern Institute Max worked for NWO, a  
> Dutch funding organisation, was Dean of the Faculty of Humanities at  
> the Erasmus Universiteit (Rotterdam), was Director of the IIAS in  
> Leiden and Director of the Premium Erasmianum. Soon after his  
> retirement in August last year he was diagnosed long cancer (he had  
> stopped smoking some 40 years ago). In addition to his indological  
> work Max published widely on salamanders. Recently a voluminous  
> standard work on salamanders by him has appeared. His work on a book  
> on salamaders in art was interrupted by his death.
> Herman
>
> Herman Tieken
> Stationsweg 58
> 2515 BP Den Haag
> The Netherlands
> 00 31 (0)70 2208127
> website: hermantieken.com<http://hermantieken.com/>






From falk at zedat.fu-berlin.de  Thu Sep  1 13:35:14 2016
From: falk at zedat.fu-berlin.de (Harry Falk)
Date: Thu, 01 Sep 16 15:35:14 +0200
Subject: [INDOLOGY] further sad news
In-Reply-To: <EA8F815D502BC14097213C5D85BA1C6522D0EF99@SPMXM07.VUW.leidenuniv.nl>
Message-ID: <51012.79.194.84.191.1472736914.webmail@webmail.zedat.fu-berlin.de>

Dear list members,
apart from Teun Goudrian and Max Sparreboom August 2016 claimed one more
life among our friends and colleagues: Anna Maria Quagliotti left this
world on August 17 at Rome while recovering from a minor surgery, only one
year after retreating from her teaching obligations at the University of
Naples. She has published extensively on Gandharan art. Together with G.
Fussman she was instrumental in establishing SEECHAC (Soci?t? Europ?enne
pour l'Etude des Civilisations de l'Himalaya et de l'Asie Centrale) which
she directed as Vice President until her demise.
Her last home is the family chapel in the Val de Non, Trentino.
Harry Falk







From paoloe.rosati at gmail.com  Thu Sep  1 14:38:53 2016
From: paoloe.rosati at gmail.com (Paolo Eugenio Rosati)
Date: Thu, 01 Sep 16 16:38:53 +0200
Subject: [INDOLOGY] R:  further sad news
In-Reply-To: <51012.79.194.84.191.1472736914.webmail@webmail.zedat.fu-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <57c83dbe.05371c0a.8370b.25bd@mx.google.com>

I cannot believe it. She was my MA supervisor. She always let me use her private books' collection and I could write part of my thesis in his flat. This is a terrible news. I want to remember her as a very helpful and kind person and a great scholar. 


Paolo E. Rosati 
Oriental Archaeologist
PhD candidate in Civilisations of Asia & Africa
Section: South Asia
Dep. Italian Institute of Oriental Studies (ISO)
'Sapienza' University of Rome

paoloe.rosati at uniroma1.it
paoloe.rosati at gmail.com
Mobile: (+39) 3387383472
Skype: paoloe.rosati

----- Messaggio originale -----
Da: "Harry Falk" <falk at zedat.fu-berlin.de>
Inviato: ?01/?09/?2016 15:36
A: "INDOLOGY at list.indology.info" <indology at list.indology.info>
Oggetto: [INDOLOGY] further sad news

Dear list members,
apart from Teun Goudrian and Max Sparreboom August 2016 claimed one more
life among our friends and colleagues: Anna Maria Quagliotti left this
world on August 17 at Rome while recovering from a minor surgery, only one
year after retreating from her teaching obligations at the University of
Naples. She has published extensively on Gandharan art. Together with G.
Fussman she was instrumental in establishing SEECHAC (Soci?t? Europ?enne
pour l'Etude des Civilisations de l'Himalaya et de l'Asie Centrale) which
she directed as Vice President until her demise.
Her last home is the family chapel in the Val de Non, Trentino.
Harry Falk



_______________________________________________
INDOLOGY mailing list
INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee)
http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe)


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From hr at ivs.edu  Fri Sep  2 21:59:20 2016
From: hr at ivs.edu (Howard Resnick)
Date: Fri, 02 Sep 16 14:59:20 -0700
Subject: [INDOLOGY] contemporary events
Message-ID: <037B159D-7649-4AFE-8617-E85580A941B3@ivs.edu>

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2016/09/02/hindu-students-protest-against-burqa-wearing-muslims-on-campus-in-southern-india/?wpisrc=nl_most-draw10&wpmm=1 <https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2016/09/02/hindu-students-protest-against-burqa-wearing-muslims-on-campus-in-southern-india/?wpisrc=nl_most-draw10&wpmm=1>




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From martin.gansten at pbhome.se  Sat Sep  3 12:05:02 2016
From: martin.gansten at pbhome.se (Martin Gansten)
Date: Sat, 03 Sep 16 14:05:02 +0200
Subject: [INDOLOGY] pAnIya and buDana
Message-ID: <fd7f653f-4ab5-6825-d921-fda049a31d24@pbhome.se>

In T?jika astrological texts, a certain mathematically derived point or 
'lot' (/sahama/, from Arabic /sahm/) is called /p?n?yap?ta/. The sense 
seems to be 'falling into water', as it is associated with danger from 
water (/p?n?yap?tasahama? kr?rayuta? jalabhaya? karoty abde/), but I 
confess that this use of /p?n?ya/ to refer to water outside the context 
of drinking sounds fairly odd to me (even slangy, though I accept that's 
probably my first- and second-language sensibilities intruding). Can 
anyone tell me how old this wider usage is? It is tempting to think of 
it as a projection of NIA /p?n?/ onto early modern Sanskrit, but 
Moner-Williams seems to suggest that the meaning 'water' (irrespective 
of context?) is found in Manu and the MBh.

On a related note, the text passage quoted above also warns of /bu?ana/ 
(/asta?gate tad??e bu?ana? sy?t/). MW and other dictionaries give the 
meaning 'cover, conceal' (and 'emit, discharge') for the root /bu?/. 
Drowning might be defined as being covered by water, but again, it does 
sound a little odd to me. Has anyone come across a contextually more 
likely meaning of /bu?ana/?

Many thanks in advance,

Martin Gansten



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From slaje at kabelmail.de  Sat Sep  3 12:32:08 2016
From: slaje at kabelmail.de (Walter Slaje)
Date: Sat, 03 Sep 16 14:32:08 +0200
Subject: [INDOLOGY] pAnIya and buDana
In-Reply-To: <fd7f653f-4ab5-6825-d921-fda049a31d24@pbhome.se>
Message-ID: <CALoZ1nULYCnirgmnr8faLAafZRsrLQ5H7RMJ1S7Pq2fDK3WCEg@mail.gmail.com>

>

*bu?ana? sy?t*
Sure, the text doesn't read *bru?ana? / vru?ana?*?

Best, WS




2016-09-03 14:05 GMT+02:00 Martin Gansten <martin.gansten at pbhome.se>:

> In T?jika astrological texts, a certain mathematically derived point or
> 'lot' (*sahama*, from Arabic *sahm*) is called *p?n?yap?ta*. The sense
> seems to be 'falling into water', as it is associated with danger from
> water (*p?n?yap?tasahama? kr?rayuta? jalabhaya? karoty abde*), but I
> confess that this use of *p?n?ya* to refer to water outside the context
> of drinking sounds fairly odd to me (even slangy, though I accept that's
> probably my first- and second-language sensibilities intruding). Can anyone
> tell me how old this wider usage is? It is tempting to think of it as a
> projection of NIA *p?n?* onto early modern Sanskrit, but Moner-Williams
> seems to suggest that the meaning 'water' (irrespective of context?) is
> found in Manu and the MBh.
>
> On a related note, the text passage quoted above also warns of *bu?ana* (*asta?gate
> tad??e bu?ana? sy?t*). MW and other dictionaries give the meaning 'cover,
> conceal' (and 'emit, discharge') for the root *bu?*. Drowning might be
> defined as being covered by water, but again, it does sound a little odd to
> me. Has anyone come across a contextually more likely meaning of *bu?ana*?
>
> Many thanks in advance,
>
> Martin Gansten
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
> committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
> unsubscribe)
>


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From martin.gansten at pbhome.se  Sat Sep  3 12:51:14 2016
From: martin.gansten at pbhome.se (Martin Gansten)
Date: Sat, 03 Sep 16 14:51:14 +0200
Subject: [INDOLOGY] pAnIya and buDana
In-Reply-To: <CALoZ1nULYCnirgmnr8faLAafZRsrLQ5H7RMJ1S7Pq2fDK3WCEg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <b5c28ce8-7847-2d11-d2f9-a93b13275ca0@pbhome.se>

Thanks for the suggestion, Walter. No, none of the six witnesses 
available to me has the form with /r/; four read /bu?ana?/vu?ana?/, 
while two read /vujhana? /(or possibly /?ujhana?/). But perhaps /bu?/vu? 
/and /bru?/vru?/ could be variant forms? (Both seem to have the meaning 
'cover'.) I confess I've never, to my recollection, come across either 
before.

Martin


Den 2016-09-03 kl. 14:32, skrev Walter Slaje:
> > /bu?ana? sy?t
>
> /
> Sure, the text doesn't read /bru?ana? / vru?ana?/?/
> /
> Best, WS/
>
> /




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From mmdesh at umich.edu  Sat Sep  3 12:57:46 2016
From: mmdesh at umich.edu (Madhav Deshpande)
Date: Sat, 03 Sep 16 08:57:46 -0400
Subject: [INDOLOGY] pAnIya and buDana
In-Reply-To: <b5c28ce8-7847-2d11-d2f9-a93b13275ca0@pbhome.se>
Message-ID: <CAB3-dzdXGeE3zTaXanzA+npTUOFt4cuyKro+iR-QYbbvStA5eA@mail.gmail.com>

For what it is worth, the verb bu?a?e in Marathi has the sense of drowning
in water, and this is cognate with the Hindi verb ??bn?.  It is possible
that bu?ana in this T?jik text is a vernacular word in the sense of
drowning in water as one of the dangers.

Madhav Deshpande

On Sat, Sep 3, 2016 at 8:51 AM, Martin Gansten <martin.gansten at pbhome.se>
wrote:

> Thanks for the suggestion, Walter. No, none of the six witnesses available
> to me has the form with *r*; four read *bu?ana?/vu?ana?*, while two read *vujhana?
> *(or possibly *?ujhana?*). But perhaps *bu?/vu? *and *bru?/vru?* could be
> variant forms? (Both seem to have the meaning 'cover'.) I confess I've
> never, to my recollection, come across either before.
>
> Martin
>
>
> Den 2016-09-03 kl. 14:32, skrev Walter Slaje:
>
> >
>
> *bu?ana? sy?t *
> Sure, the text doesn't read *bru?ana? / vru?ana?*?
>
> Best, WS
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
> committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
> unsubscribe)
>


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From dermot at grevatt.force9.co.uk  Sat Sep  3 18:21:16 2016
From: dermot at grevatt.force9.co.uk (dermot at grevatt.force9.co.uk)
Date: Sat, 03 Sep 16 19:21:16 +0100
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Mind and moon
In-Reply-To: <10F41F75-C998-4E98-97F2-318C53461A08@austin.utexas.edu>
Message-ID: <57CB149C.6905.224A454@dermot.grevatt.force9.co.uk>

Dear Patrick,

I have the article, kindly supplied by a colleague on Indology.

It's not totally conclusive, but it's a good example of Gonda's amazing pre-digital abilty to find 
Vedic material, and his occasional forays into comparison with other cultures. It's the most 
helpful thing I've found on the subject since I raised the query.

I would add to Dominik's strictures on spontaneous feelings that in this context we should 
also avoid ideas about the moon which are part of our body of knowledge but not (as far as 
the texts show us) part of that of the ancient rsis: e.g. that the moon's light is reflected, or that 
it has an unseen side.

With best wishes,

Dermot

On 7 Aug 2016 at 17:23, Olivelle, J P wrote:

Dominik:

Could you post a PDF of the article, if you have it?

Patrick




    On Aug 7, 2016, at 9:49 AM, Dominik Wujastyk <wujastyk at gmail.com> wrote:

    May I request that further participants to the mind/moon discussion explicitly take note 
    of Jan Gonda's 1986 paper ('Mind and Moon .' In: G. Bhattacharya (ed.). Deyadharma: 
    Studies in Memory of Dr. DC Sircar (Delhi, India : Sri Satguru Publications): 147-160. 
    ) and respond to it, at least to some degree? I'm not saying "Gonda was right" or 
    anything like that. But he was a careful scholar with a lot of experience, and his 
    remarks on this subject probably form a worthwhile starting point for further discussion. 
    I am recommending this procedure in contrast to the more poetic, and perhaps more 
    charming method of expressing what one spontaneously feels about the moon and the 
    mind.
    Best wishes,
    Dominik Wujastyk
    _______________________________________________
    INDOLOGY mailing list
    INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
    indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee)
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-- 
Dermot Killingley
9, Rectory Drive,
Gosforth,
Newcastle upon Tyne NE3 1XT
Phone (0191) 285 8053


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From ashok.aklujkar at gmail.com  Sat Sep  3 19:08:06 2016
From: ashok.aklujkar at gmail.com (Ashok Aklujkar)
Date: Sat, 03 Sep 16 12:08:06 -0700
Subject: [INDOLOGY] aja as ajaya?
In-Reply-To: <CAPAZekazrLCoXR7=OoKsnf6Hsd691r0x426hXL6zNv29wo9b3w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4A23878E-5B77-473F-9DB9-50FA68F458B5@gmail.com>

Dear David,

My general experience is that copyists in the Sanskrit/Indic tradition are very conservative. Almost always, they do not make emendations and, if they do, they usually note them in the margins. Secondly, your mss do not seem to fall into versions or recensions. In effect, you have only one ms reading aja. Also, you have indicated that the source of the (seemingly) multiple attestations is unlikely to have been distant from the autograph or a copy that was made available for further copying. There is thus room to believe that an oversight made in the autograph or in a released copy of the autograph has been faithfully retained. Therefore, unless another independent occurrence of aja in the sense of ajaya is found, the emendation that occurred to Madhav and you should be accepted. Just as wems do not accept in a critically constituted text grammatically wrong forms obviously incongruent with the rest of an author?s/scribe?s style or standard, we should not accept a word for which no external corroboration is available, especially if the meaning of that word (?unborn? in this case) is unlikely to be confused or associated with a meaning several of us have viewed as contextually likely and the expresser of that meaning gives us a metrically sound text. 

I hope I make sense even if I fail to create conviction. 

a.a.


> On Aug 26, 2016, at 5:25 PM, David and Nancy Reigle <dnreigle at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Dear Madhav and all,
> 
> 
> 
> The lack of a syllable in this p?da certainly makes ajaya for aja a simple and obvious fix for the problem. I recall an early Vedic scholar (I have forgotten who) writing that the very fact that an emendation is obvious is good reason not to make the emendation, because it would have also been obvious to the whole line of Sanskrit pandits who transmitted the text, yet who did not make the emendation. We seem to have the same situation here. I originally did not make the obvious emendation because all eight Sanskrit manuscripts unanimously agreed in having aja here. Then came confirmation of this by the occurrence of aja in the prose commentary on 1.27, three times. Then two more old palm-leaf Sanskrit manuscripts became available to me, also having aja. Most recently, Tsa mi?s early Tibetan translation became available, having the transliterated aja. Not a single source has ajaya. So I am obliged to conclude that aja is the actual form of the name.
> 
> 
> 
> Unlike the Vedic texts with their long history, the K?lacakra texts only appeared in India about a thousand years ago. There was no time for a corruption to occur in the transmission of the text and then become established in the tradition. The early translators all lived within the first few generations after the K?lacakra texts appeared in India. Two of the palm-leaf Sanskrit manuscripts we have are old enough to have been brought to Tibet, presumably by the early translators. The question, then, is whether the ajaya meaning for aja is a mistake, like the abja meaning most likely is, or whether the name aja was actually understood in the meaning of ajaya. 
> 
> 
> 
> We know that aja cannot be derived from the root ji in accordance with the rules of Sanskrit grammar. No evidence has so far surfaced that aja ever had the ajaya meaning in a Prakrit or vernacular, presumably of northeast India. The evidence of the early translators is inconsistent, some taking aja in the meaning of ajaya, and some not. Soman?tha, working with the Tibetan translator 'Bro, apparently did (we have only the later revision of his translation by Shong ston), while Tsa mi did not. Yet both are reported to have been co-disciples of the same K?lacakra teacher, and they lived only a few generations after the texts appeared in India. So who do we trust? It seems to me that we need more evidence to decide this question.
> 
> 
> 
> Best regards,
> 
> 
> 
> David Reigle
> 
> Colorado, U.S.A.
> 
> 
> 
> On Thu, Aug 25, 2016 at 9:07 PM, Madhav Deshpande <mmdesh at umich.edu <mailto:mmdesh at umich.edu>> wrote:
> Forgot to send it to Indology list.
> 
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: Madhav Deshpande <mmdesh at umich.edu <mailto:mmdesh at umich.edu>>
> Date: Thu, Aug 25, 2016 at 1:52 PM
> Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] aja as ajaya?
> To: David and Nancy Reigle <dnreigle at gmail.com <mailto:dnreigle at gmail.com>>
> 
> 
> Hello David,
> 
>      I don't know any Tibetan, but the Sanskrit lines "samudravijayo 'ja? | kalk? dv?da?ama? s?ryo" that you have quoted make me think that the first part of your quotation is metrically deficient.  It has only seven syllables, in stead of the required eight syllables for a quarter of an Anu??ubh verse.  To make this line metrically regular with eight syllables, the probable correction would read: samudravijayo 'jaya?", giving you the reading "ajaya".  This original was probably corrupted to "samudravijayo 'ja?".  Just a suggestion.
> 
> Madhav Deshpande
> 
> On Thu, Aug 25, 2016 at 1:31 PM, David and Nancy Reigle <dnreigle at gmail.com <mailto:dnreigle at gmail.com>> wrote:
> Dear Jonathan,
> 
> Thank you for the good suggestion that perhaps chu skyes, ?water-born,? is based on *abja. I would regard this as certain, that the Tibetan translator was thinking of abja. Whether abja rather than aja was found in Bhadrabodhi?s Sanskrit manuscript, however, is another question. In this pioneering translation, the Tibetan translator Gyi jo first made a draft translation, and then this was divided among his students, the junior translators, to complete (see Cyrus Stearns, The Buddha from D?lpo, 2010 ed., p. 327 note 98). Since this possibly tentative translation, chu skyes, is the only evidence we have for abja, against much other evidence, I must doubt whether abja was actually in the Sanskrit manuscript. It seems more likely that the Tibetan translator simply confused the two words, and mistook the meaning of abja for the meaning of aja.
> 
> 
> 
> Regarding nyi ma'i, ?of the sun,? what caused me to call this ?incomprehensible? is the fact that this genitive occurs at the end of the Tibetan p?da, and with nothing for it to go with: rgya mtsho rnam rgyal nyi ma'i | snyigs can nyi ma bcu gnyis pa'o |, corresponding to: samudravijayo 'ja? | kalk? dv?da?ama? s?ryo |. The Tibetan p?da is short one syllable, which is obviously needed after nyi ma'i, but was apparently omitted by scribal error. So the Tibetan translator did take this name as something pertaining to the sun, whether he read it as jaya or as aja. As for what the word missing in this Tibetan translation might be, ?[something] of the sun?: V. S. Apte?s Sanskrit dictionary gives as meaning #9 ?A vehicle of the sun,? and Monier-Williams gives ?beam of the sun (P?shan),? but neither with a source reference.
> 
> 
> 
> (Thank you for your kind words.)
> 
> 
> 
> Best regards,
> 
> 
> 
> David Reigle
> 
> Colorado, U.S.A.
> 
> 
> 
> On Thu, Aug 25, 2016 at 12:59 AM, Jonathan Silk <kauzeya at gmail.com <mailto:kauzeya at gmail.com>> wrote:
> Just a random idea:
> perhaps chu skyes is based on *abja. 
> Also, at least in some lists (but I admit this is a very problematic "possibility") jaya is a name for the sun...
> Thanks for your interesting questions! 
> 
> (May I just add here that since my student days I've appreciated the materials you've made available from a place I had never before heard of, Talent Oregon? Until it got water damaged by a warehouse that was anything but 'state of the art' [despite their claim...] I had a lovely reprint, in library binding, of an old publication on the Madhy?ntavibh?ga and several other things from you, for which I take the opportunity to publicly thank you :)
> 
> Jonathan
> 
> On Wed, Aug 24, 2016 at 4:33 AM, David and Nancy Reigle <dnreigle at gmail.com <mailto:dnreigle at gmail.com>> wrote:
> Getting the names of the kings of ?ambhala correct is very important for the Jonang order of Tibetan Buddhism, which has specialized in the K?lacakra/?ambhala teachings. So the Jonangpa lama Khentrul Rinpoche asked me if I could check with other Sanskritists to confirm that the name aja cannot mean ?inconquerable? or ?unconquered? in accordance with the rules of Sanskrit grammar. Since the many learned Sanskritists on this list have not responded with a way to derive this meaning in the three days since the question was posted, I take this as confirmed. This is a difficult problem, because a thousand years ago two different Indian Sanskrit pandits, working with two different Tibetan translators, apparently did take aja in this meaning. Unlike with the name harivikrama, we cannot trace how the error with aja arose (if it is an error).
> 
> 
> 
> The case of harivikrama is comparatively simple. This name occurs with another name in this anu??ubh p?da: ?r?palo harivikrama?. Sanskrit verses had to be translated into Tibetan verses with a fixed number of syllables, seven for a p?da in the ?loka or anu??ubh meter. So the eight syllables of this anu??ubh p?da were translated into these seven Tibetan syllables: dpal skyong seng ge rnam par gnon. Because the number of Tibetan syllables was limited by the meter, the syllables giving necessary grammatical information were omitted, leaving no way to know where the names divide. At some point, annotations were added, dividing this p?da into three names rather than two. So the Tibetan tradition got two kings, hari and vikrama, for one, harivikrama. All eight Sanskrit manuscripts that I used 31 years ago have harivikrama? (not harir vikrama?), as do the two that have become available to me since then. These ten include six old palm-leaf manuscripts, two of which had been used in Tibet, as seen by the Tibetan handwriting on their opening leaves.
> 
> 
> 
> The case of aja is more complex. Even though the p?da of the ?loka that aja? occurs in lacks a syllable, samudravijayo 'ja?, all ten Sanskrit manuscripts have aja?, not ajaya?. This name occurs again in prose in the Vimalaprabh? commentary on 1.27, three times, so the form aja is there confirmed. Yet the canonical Tibetan translation by the Indian pandit Soman?tha and the Tibetan translator 'Bro Shes rab grags, revised by Shong ston, has rgyal dka'. Similarly, the Tibetan translation by the Indian pandit Samanta?r? and the Tibetan translator Rwa Chos rab has ma pham pa, as reported by Bu ston in his annotated edition of the Vimalaprabh?. Both mean ?unconquerable? or ?unconquered.? Here we do not have an error that is traceable to the transmission process, as we do with harivikrama, but rather a discrepancy in the translation itself. 
> 
> 
> 
> In the last few years two other old Tibetan translations of the Vimalaprabh? that had recently been recovered were published, and part of a third. The translation by Tsa mi Sangs rgyas grags, said to be the only Tibetan ever to become abbot of N?land? university in India, has transliterated the name into Tibetan characters (a dza) rather than translated it. The first ever Tibetan translation, by the Indian pandit Bhadrabodhi and the Tibetan translator Gyi jo Zla ba'i 'od zer and his students, has the incomprehensible nyi ma'i, ?of the sun,? at the end of the p?da in the list of kings (probably a scribal error in the one manuscript we have), and chu skyes, ?water-born,? in the three occurrences in the commentary on 1.27. A third translation, of which we have only the first chapter (so we do not know who made it), has rgyal ba, ?conqueror,? in the list of kings (probably a scribal error for rgyal dka' in the one manuscript we have), and rgyal dka', ?unconquerable,? in the three occurrences at 1.27. 
> 
> 
> 
> The question now is whether the name aja could stand for ajaya in some Prakrit or even vernacular language, probably from northeastern India. If we reject Gyi jo?s chu skyes, ?water-born,? as an erroneous translation, a simple mistake, we are left with figuring out how three translators took aja as ?unconquerable? or ?unconquered.? Is this, too, just an erroneous translation? Significantly, Tsa mi did not translate the name but only transliterated it. This indicates that he did not take it as ?unconquerable? or ?unconquered,? but neither did he take it as ?unborn,? as we might have expected. My apologies for the long post, but this is important to me and to Khentrul Rinpoche, and I wanted to provide enough background information to possibly lead to a solution to this problem.
> 
> 
> 
> Best regards,
> 
> 
> 
> David Reigle
> 
> Colorado, U.S.A.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On Sat, Aug 20, 2016 at 9:51 PM, David and Nancy Reigle <dnreigle at gmail.com <mailto:dnreigle at gmail.com>> wrote:
> A question to all,
> 
> 
> 
> The name aja occurs in a listing of the kings of ?ambhala quoted in the Vimalaprabh? commentary on the K?lacakra-tantra. As the name of a bodhisattva king I have not taken aja in its meaning ?goat,? but rather in its meaning ?unborn.? However, two different pairs of early translators have translated it into Tibetan as ?unconquerable? or ?unconquered? (rgyal dka?, ma pham pa), as if the word was ajaya (or ajita) rather than aja. This, of course, is a more appropriate meaning for the name of a king; but the form aja is unanimously confirmed in multiple witnesses and also in a different location in the Vimalaprabh?. So the question is: Is there any way to derive aja from the root ji, ?to conquer,? rather than from the root jan, ?to be born,? in accordance with the rules of Sanskrit grammar, whether the A???dhy?y? of P??ini, the C?ndra-vy?kara?a, the K?tantra, the S?rasvata-vy?kara?a, or any other Sanskrit grammar?
> 
> 
> 
> Details: The full listing can be found in ?The Lost K?lacakra M?la Tantra on the Kings of ?ambhala,? where aja? occurs in the verse that I have arbitrarily numbered 17 for convenience of reference: https://www.academia.edu/6423778/The_Lost_Kalacakra_Mula_Tantra_on_the_Kings_of_Sambhala <https://www.academia.edu/6423778/The_Lost_Kalacakra_Mula_Tantra_on_the_Kings_of_Sambhala>. 
> 
> 
> 
> Best regards,
> 
> 
> 
> David Reigle
> 
> Colorado, U.S.A.
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info <mailto:INDOLOGY at list.indology.info>
> indology-owner at list.indology.info <mailto:indology-owner at list.indology.info> (messages to the list's managing committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info <http://listinfo.indology.info/> (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe)
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> J. Silk
> Leiden University
> Leiden University Institute for Area Studies, LIAS
> Matthias de Vrieshof 3, Room 0.05b
> 2311 BZ Leiden
> The Netherlands
> 
> copies of my publications may be found at
> http://www.buddhismandsocialjustice.com/silk_publications.html <http://www.buddhismandsocialjustice.com/silk_publications.html>
> 
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
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> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
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> 
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From martin.gansten at pbhome.se  Sat Sep  3 19:09:11 2016
From: martin.gansten at pbhome.se (Martin Gansten)
Date: Sat, 03 Sep 16 21:09:11 +0200
Subject: [INDOLOGY] pAnIya and buDana
In-Reply-To: <CAB3-dzdXGeE3zTaXanzA+npTUOFt4cuyKro+iR-QYbbvStA5eA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <8e2e483a-982f-9de7-6ee2-e2ddfe86aef4@pbhome.se>

Many thanks to Madhav Deshpande and Walter Slaje for the additional 
information about bu?/bru?/etc. The text from which my quotation was 
taken most probably originated in or near present-day Gujarat, so the 
Marathi vernacular may indeed be relevant.

I'm still wondering about the earliest use of p?n?ya to denote water to 
swim (or drown) in, as opposed to drinking.

Martin Gansten






From franco at uni-leipzig.de  Sat Sep  3 19:27:29 2016
From: franco at uni-leipzig.de (Eli Franco)
Date: Sat, 03 Sep 16 21:27:29 +0200
Subject: =?utf-8?Q?[INDOLOGY]_A_living_Mah=C4=81y=C4=81na_tradition_in_India?=
In-Reply-To: <b5c28ce8-7847-2d11-d2f9-a93b13275ca0@pbhome.se>
Message-ID: <20160903212729.Horde.0y5cL_4RHKEUiDhEJY7YhA1@mail.uni-leipzig.de>


Dear friends and colleagues,

It is a well-known ?fact? that Buddhism has disappeared from India.  
One can imagine my surprise and excitement when I encountered in a  
recent trip to Odisha a Buddhist community called Sarak (< ?r?vaka),  
residing in six villages, which claims a Buddhist Mah?y?na identity  
going back at least to medieval times. Their tradition is definitely  
genuine, as is clear, for instance, from their gotra names such as  
Nir?k?ra, Nir?lambha and K?amadeva (the Saraks themselves are not  
quite certain about the meaning of these terms). However, at present  
there is an increasing influence from globally operating Theravada  
institutions, especially the Mahabodhi society, and I am not sure how  
long this village tradition will survive. Studying the Saraks may well  
be a unique and fading opportunity to get a better understanding of  
Indian Mah?y?na Buddhism as a living popular religion. It may also  
provide valuable insights about the last stage and disappearance of  
Buddhism from the Indian soil. However, my application to the German  
Research Council to fund a study of the Saraks has failed. Perhaps  
someone else will be more successful.

With best wishes,
Eli Franco

-- 
Prof. Dr. Eli Franco
Institut f?r Indologie und Zentralasienwissenschaften
Schillerstr. 6
04109 Leipzig

Ph. +49 341 9737 121, 9737 120 (dept. office)
Fax +49 341 9737 148







From ashok.aklujkar at gmail.com  Sat Sep  3 23:14:20 2016
From: ashok.aklujkar at gmail.com (Ashok Aklujkar)
Date: Sat, 03 Sep 16 16:14:20 -0700
Subject: [INDOLOGY] aja as ajaya?
In-Reply-To: <CAPAZekazrLCoXR7=OoKsnf6Hsd691r0x426hXL6zNv29wo9b3w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <9E8AD1CF-227D-4A2E-A4B6-A7C2B93B285D@gmail.com>

In my last post, please correct ?wems? to ?we?. 

Sorry also for overlooking to delete the earlier posts. 

I was typing past mid-night Pune time 

a.a.




From mrinalkaul81 at gmail.com  Sun Sep  4 10:20:57 2016
From: mrinalkaul81 at gmail.com (Mrinal Kaul)
Date: Sun, 04 Sep 16 15:50:57 +0530
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Workshop on the Rasa Theory, Manipal,	India (February 13-17, 2017)
Message-ID: <CAJz4T_5xbmxUX+jXQCkrnELRPPnu-6DJuSsmGMu4W7gFWMNoDQ@mail.gmail.com>

*Workshop on the Rasa Theory, Manipal, India*

*February 13-17, 2017*


*Organized by *

Centre for Religious Studies

Manipal Centre for Philosophy and Humanities

Manipal University, Manipal, India




Centre for Religious Studies invites applications for a week-long *Workshop
on the Rasa Theory* from *February 13-17, 2017* in Manipal.


*Introduction*


The *N??ya??stra *is an encyclopaedic treatise on art and aesthetics in
pre-modern India and* Abhinavabh?rat?, *the most widely studied commentary
on it by Abhinavagupta (c. 950-1020 CE). They are important for they are
the significant sources for understanding theatrics and dramaturgy,
philosophy of arts and aesthetics, and performing arts. They interest
scholars of Indian music, theatre, and literature, as well as intellectual
historians and philologists. Their proper understanding is an extraordinary
attempt towards the development of Indian intellectual history.


*About the Workshop*


There have been a number of attempts at editing and translating the text of
the *N??ya??stra *and* Abhinavabh?rat?, *including most recently Professor
K.D. Tripathi's first volume of the *N??ya??stra *(2015) and a selection of
translations included in Professor S. Pollock's *Rasa Reader* (2016). Despite
a relatively long history of scholarly engagement, however, much about this
tradition remains poorly understood, and the texts themselves remain very
difficult to establish conclusively: both texts are technical, and to add
to this, the *N??ya??stra* is available in widely-divergent forms in
several families of manuscripts, while the *Abhinavabh?rat?* is available
only in a highly corrupt form in a single family of manuscripts.


This workshop will principally include a close textual reading of
selections from the *Ras?dhy?ya* (chapter 6) of the *N??ya??stra* of
Bharatamuni?the celebrated work on Indian aesthetics?together with the
*Abhinavabh?rat?
*commentary of Abhinavagupta. The discussion in the *Abhinavabh?rat?*
includes a critical overview of the history of Indian aesthetics up to
Abhinavagupta himself in the tenth century, including such thinkers as ?r?
?a?kuka, Bha??a Lolla?a, Bha??a N?yaka, etc. The aim of the workshop is not
only to familiarize the participants with the principal questions and
debates in Indian aesthetics, but also to discuss the philological
challenges posed by these texts with experts in the field. We will
therefore work with parallel texts and manuscripts in our readings of the
*Abhinavabh?rat?*.


*Deadline for Application:*  *Wednesday 30 November, 2016*


*Program and Faculty*


Professor C. Rajendran, University of Calicut, Thiruvananthapuram will be
the principal instructor. We are also expecting a few other experts of
Indian aesthetics to join us. The morning and afternoon sessions will
include the readings of the text in Sanskrit followed by special lectures
in the afternoon. The seminar will be held in English and readings will be
circulated in advance. Special events like Yak?ag?na performance which is a
native folk theatre form of Malen??u region in Karnataka, will be organized
besides an afternoon excursion to the local Jaina temples in Karkala. There
also will be opportunities for exploring the incredible richness and
diversity of the region.


*Selection Criteria*


Advanced comprehension of Sanskrit language and the reading ability in
Devan?gar? script is required. We seek interested research students and
scholars from across India and abroad. The selection will be made based on
the strength of the application. We cannot accept more than 25
participants  and the priority will be given to the applications from
research scholars in disciplines or with experience in Sanskrit,
Philosophy, Aesthetics, Religion and Literature. There will be a
participation fee for all participants. Applicants will be informed about
the decision of selection after the deadline of application.



*Location and Accommodations*


The event will be hosted by Manipal University and its Centre for Religious
Studies in the picturesque ocean-side state of Karnataka in south-western
India. Scholars will be housed in international student residences. The
space is wheelchair accessible. A registration fee will be charged that
includes working lunch, tea/coffee with snacks and accommodation for five
nights. Travel cost will not be reimbursed.


*Registration Fees*


Registration is mandatory for attending the workshop. If you are a member
of Manipal University and want to attend the workshop, please get in touch
with the coordinator to follow the process.


*Regular Participants:* Rs. 2000


*Student Participants:* Rs. 1500


*Application Information*


Applications should include the following, preferably sent as PDFs:
1. Description of research interests and their relevance to the topic of
the workshop (max. 300 words)
2. Brief Curriculum Vitae / resume highlighting relevant skills, experience
and training.


*Applications should be sent to:*

Mr Tapaswi H.M.

Co-convenor-Workshop on the Rasa Theory

<tapaswi.hm at gmail.com>


*with a copy to:*


Dr Mrinal Kaul

(Convenor-Workshop on the Rasa Theory)

Coordinator

Centre for Religious Studies

Manipal Centre for Philosophy and Humanities

Manipal University


email: <mrinalkaul81 at gmail.com>

Tel +91-820-29-23567 (Office)


*For more information, please contact:*


Manipal Centre for Philosophy and Humanities

Dr TMA Pai Planetarium Complex, Alevoor Road

Manipal ? 576104

Tel +91-820-2923561

office.mcph at manipal.edu
------
Mrinal Kaul
Centre for Religious Studies (CRS)
Manipal Centre for Philosophy and Humanities (MCPH)
Manipal University
Dr TMA Pai Planetarium Complex
Alevoor Road, Manipal 576 104
Karnataka, INDIA
Tel +91-820-29-23567 Extn: 23567
https://manipal.academia.edu/MrinalKaul
http://mcphcommunity.org
email: mrinal.kaul at manipal.edu


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From h.arganisjuarez at yahoo.com.mx  Sun Sep  4 15:04:28 2016
From: h.arganisjuarez at yahoo.com.mx (Horacio Francisco Arganis Juarez)
Date: Sun, 04 Sep 16 15:04:28 +0000
Subject: [INDOLOGY] contemporary events
In-Reply-To: <037B159D-7649-4AFE-8617-E85580A941B3@ivs.edu>
Message-ID: <786084112.1301259.1473001468399@mail.yahoo.com>

This very good social factor for contemporany studies, with special objetivity and neutrality. For us the Mexicans, thanks to nationalistic heros and scholars like Clavijero, etc. Now we have preservert many folks, history and all hereditage of Pre-columbian mesoamerican cultures agains to eurocentric colonialism. Because, now Europe has its own ways models of society and political. But very different to Liberal and neo-liberal USA and Latinoamerica.Regards.
?Dr. Horacio Francisco Arganis Ju?rez Lic. M.A. Ph. D. Catedr?tico Investigador de la Universidad Internacional Euroamericana. Departamento de Filosof?a y Religi?n Comparada. www.uie.edu.es
Dr. Horacio Francisco Arganis Ju?rez Lic. M.A. Ph. D. Catedr?tico Investigador de la Universidad Internacional Euroamericana. Departamento de Filosof?a y Religi?n Comparada. www.uie.edu.es

      De: Howard Resnick <hr at ivs.edu>
 Para: Indology List <indology at list.indology.info> 
 Enviado: Viernes, 2 de septiembre, 2016 16:59:20
 Asunto: [INDOLOGY] contemporary events
   
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2016/09/02/hindu-students-protest-against-burqa-wearing-muslims-on-campus-in-southern-india/?wpisrc=nl_most-draw10&wpmm=1


_______________________________________________
INDOLOGY mailing list
INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee)
http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe)

   


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From hr at ivs.edu  Sun Sep  4 15:10:31 2016
From: hr at ivs.edu (HdGoswami)
Date: Sun, 04 Sep 16 08:10:31 -0700
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Scribe Ganesha
Message-ID: <1473001741-3223489.70440381.fu84F8TxD004764@rs143.luxsci.com>

We have all heard the popular story that Vyasa dictated the Mahabharata to his scribe Ganesha. This story does not appear in the critical text of the MBh, though it does appear in alternate readings that didn?t make it into the CE?s main text. I have access to a digital copy of the critical edition?s supplementary passages, but I cannot locate therein readings that describe Ganesha the scribe. Since Ganguly includes this Ganesh story in his translation somewhere around CE 1.1.56, I have been checking the Adi-parva alternative readings, but I can?t find the Ganesha story  either in the CE?s running list of shorter alternative readings for 1.1, or at the end where the CE gives longer supplementary passages.

I would appreciate any help in finding the alternative Sanskrit readings that give the Ganesha story. 

For reference, here is Ganguly?s translation, roughly around 1.1.56 of the CE:

"Sauti said, 'Brahma having thus spoken to Vyasa, retired to his own abode. Then Vyasa began to call to mind Ganesa. And Ganesa, obviator of obstacles, ready to fulfil the desires of his votaries, was no sooner thought of, than he repaired to the place where Vyasa was seated. And when he had been saluted, and was seated, Vyasa addressed him thus, 'O guide of the Ganas! be thou the writer of the Bharata which I have formed in my imagination, and which I am about to repeat."
"Ganesa, upon hearing this address, thus answered, 'I will become the writer of thy work, provided my pen do not for a moment cease writing." And Vyasa said unto that divinity, 'Wherever there be anything thou dost not comprehend, cease to continue writing.' Ganesa having signified his assent, by repeating the word Om! proceeded to write; and Vyasa began; and by way of diversion, he knit the knots of composition exceeding close;"

Many thanks.
Howard
	



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From wujastyk at gmail.com  Sun Sep  4 17:26:13 2016
From: wujastyk at gmail.com (Dominik Wujastyk)
Date: Sun, 04 Sep 16 11:26:13 -0600
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Earliest attestation of the elements in Indian	thought?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.3792.1472667032.13775.indology_list.indology.info@list.indology.info>
Message-ID: <CAKdt-CeapwVJfruhPRNsPJ9Njw3pmMuS_PwJVc4az3ux+90WSQ@mail.gmail.com>

See the sophisticated study "Mah?bh?tas
<http://referenceworks.brillonline.com/entries/brill-s-encyclopedia-of-hinduism/mahabhutas-COM_2050180>"
by Karin Preisendanz in *Brill's Encyclopedia of Hinduism*, that considers
this topic from several previously unproblematized angles.

??
Karin Preisendanz, ?Mah?bh?tas?, in:
*??Brill?s Encyclopedia of Hinduism*, Edited by: Knut A. Jacobsen, Helene
Basu, Angelika Malinar, Vasudha Narayanan. Consulted online on 04 September
2016 <http://dx.doi.org/10.1163/2212-5019_beh_COM_2050180>
First published online: 2012


--
Professor Dominik Wujastyk* <http://ualberta.academia.edu/DominikWujastyk>
Singhmar Chair in Classical Indian Society and Polity
Department of History and Classics <http://historyandclassics.ualberta.ca/>
University of Alberta, Canada

<https://mail.google.com/mail/u/0/goog_1525257691>
?sas.ualberta.ca?


On 31 August 2016 at 12:11, Dean Michael Anderson via INDOLOGY <
indology at list.indology.info> wrote:

> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
> committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
> unsubscribe)
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: Dean Michael Anderson <eastwestcultural at yahoo.com>
> To: Indology List <indology at list.indology.info>
> Cc:
> Date: Wed, 31 Aug 2016 18:07:38 +0000 (UTC)
> Subject: Earliest attestation of the elements in Indian thought?
> Does anyone know which text has the earliest mention of the four or five
> elements?
>
> Best,
>
> Dean Anderson
> East West Cultural Institute
>
>
>


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From wujastyk at gmail.com  Sun Sep  4 17:47:50 2016
From: wujastyk at gmail.com (Dominik Wujastyk)
Date: Sun, 04 Sep 16 11:47:50 -0600
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Scribe Ganesha
In-Reply-To: <1473001741-3223489.70440381.fu84F8TxD004764@rs143.luxsci.com>
Message-ID: <CAKdt-CdYgwk09EXTE3Pm6QZygt2dMEvZUOpoqnkJfkfv7yHUTQ@mail.gmail.com>

The Sanskrit you are looking for is in the Southern Recension.  See the
highlighted "Ga?e?a" words in adhy?ya 1:

   -
   http://sarit.indology.info/exist/apps/sarit/works/%C4%81diparva__adhy%C4%81ya_001.html?action=search#1.3.4.3.8.121

Reference:
http://sarit.indology.info/exist/apps/sarit/works/sarit__mah%C4%81bh%C4%81rata#mb-krishnacharya

Best,
Dominik Wujastyk

--
Professor Dominik Wujastyk* <http://ualberta.academia.edu/DominikWujastyk>
Singhmar Chair in Classical Indian Society and Polity
Department of History and Classics <http://historyandclassics.ualberta.ca/>
University of Alberta, Canada

<https://mail.google.com/mail/u/0/goog_1525257691>
?sas.ualberta.ca?


On 4 September 2016 at 09:10, HdGoswami <hr at ivs.edu> wrote:

> We have all heard the popular story that Vyasa dictated the Mahabharata to
> his scribe Ganesha. This story does not appear in the critical text of the
> MBh, though it does appear in alternate readings that didn?t make it into
> the CE?s main text. I have access to a digital copy of the critical
> edition?s supplementary passages, but I cannot locate therein readings that
> describe Ganesha the scribe. Since Ganguly includes this Ganesh story in
> his translation somewhere around CE 1.1.56, I have been checking the
> Adi-parva alternative readings, but I can?t find the Ganesha story  either
> in the CE?s running list of shorter alternative readings for 1.1, or at the
> end where the CE gives longer supplementary passages.
>
> I would appreciate any help in finding the alternative Sanskrit readings
> that give the Ganesha story.
>
> For reference, here is Ganguly?s translation, roughly around 1.1.56 of the
> CE:
>
> "Sauti said, 'Brahma having thus spoken to Vyasa, retired to his own
> abode. Then Vyasa began to call to mind Ganesa. And Ganesa, obviator of
> obstacles, ready to fulfil the desires of his votaries, was no sooner
> thought of, than he repaired to the place where Vyasa was seated. And when
> he had been saluted, and was seated, Vyasa addressed him thus, 'O guide of
> the *Ganas*! be thou the writer of the *Bharata* which I have formed in
> my imagination, and which I am about to repeat."
>
> "Ganesa, upon hearing this address, thus answered, 'I will become the
> writer of thy work, provided my pen do not for a moment cease writing." And
> Vyasa said unto that divinity, 'Wherever there be anything thou dost not
> comprehend, cease to continue writing.' Ganesa having signified his assent,
> by repeating the word Om! proceeded to write; and Vyasa began; and by way
> of diversion, he knit the knots of composition exceeding close;"
> Many thanks.
> Howard
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
> committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
> unsubscribe)
>


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From beitel at gwu.edu  Sun Sep  4 17:57:26 2016
From: beitel at gwu.edu (Alfred Hiltebeitel)
Date: Sun, 04 Sep 16 13:57:26 -0400
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Scribe Ganesha
In-Reply-To: <CAKdt-CdYgwk09EXTE3Pm6QZygt2dMEvZUOpoqnkJfkfv7yHUTQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CADRWd6F2765AfPMOX6nU0H6XmTf4Gq0Cux_tDoPVKDG5QKQWXQ@mail.gmail.com>

Bruce Sullivan's book on Vyasa also has the N an S texts and in translation.

On Sun, Sep 4, 2016 at 1:47 PM, Dominik Wujastyk <wujastyk at gmail.com> wrote:

> The Sanskrit you are looking for is in the Southern Recension.  See the
> highlighted "Ga?e?a" words in adhy?ya 1:
>
>    - http://sarit.indology.info/exist/apps/sarit/works/%C4%
>    81diparva__adhy%C4%81ya_001.html?action=search#1.3.4.3.8.121
>    <http://sarit.indology.info/exist/apps/sarit/works/%C4%81diparva__adhy%C4%81ya_001.html?action=search#1.3.4.3.8.121>
>
> Reference: http://sarit.indology.info/exist/apps/
> sarit/works/sarit__mah%C4%81bh%C4%81rata#mb-krishnacharya
>
> Best,
> Dominik Wujastyk
>
> --
> Professor Dominik Wujastyk* <http://ualberta.academia.edu/DominikWujastyk>
> Singhmar Chair in Classical Indian Society and Polity
> Department of History and Classics
> <http://historyandclassics.ualberta.ca/>
> University of Alberta, Canada
>
> <https://mail.google.com/mail/u/0/goog_1525257691>
> ?sas.ualberta.ca?
>
>
> On 4 September 2016 at 09:10, HdGoswami <hr at ivs.edu> wrote:
>
>> We have all heard the popular story that Vyasa dictated the Mahabharata
>> to his scribe Ganesha. This story does not appear in the critical text of
>> the MBh, though it does appear in alternate readings that didn?t make it
>> into the CE?s main text. I have access to a digital copy of the critical
>> edition?s supplementary passages, but I cannot locate therein readings that
>> describe Ganesha the scribe. Since Ganguly includes this Ganesh story in
>> his translation somewhere around CE 1.1.56, I have been checking the
>> Adi-parva alternative readings, but I can?t find the Ganesha story  either
>> in the CE?s running list of shorter alternative readings for 1.1, or at the
>> end where the CE gives longer supplementary passages.
>>
>> I would appreciate any help in finding the alternative Sanskrit readings
>> that give the Ganesha story.
>>
>> For reference, here is Ganguly?s translation, roughly around 1.1.56 of
>> the CE:
>>
>> "Sauti said, 'Brahma having thus spoken to Vyasa, retired to his own
>> abode. Then Vyasa began to call to mind Ganesa. And Ganesa, obviator of
>> obstacles, ready to fulfil the desires of his votaries, was no sooner
>> thought of, than he repaired to the place where Vyasa was seated. And when
>> he had been saluted, and was seated, Vyasa addressed him thus, 'O guide of
>> the *Ganas*! be thou the writer of the *Bharata* which I have formed in
>> my imagination, and which I am about to repeat."
>>
>> "Ganesa, upon hearing this address, thus answered, 'I will become the
>> writer of thy work, provided my pen do not for a moment cease writing." And
>> Vyasa said unto that divinity, 'Wherever there be anything thou dost not
>> comprehend, cease to continue writing.' Ganesa having signified his assent,
>> by repeating the word Om! proceeded to write; and Vyasa began; and by way
>> of diversion, he knit the knots of composition exceeding close;"
>> Many thanks.
>> Howard
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
>> committee)
>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
>> unsubscribe)
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
> committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
> unsubscribe)
>



-- 
Alf Hiltebeitel
Professor of Religion, History and Human Sciences
Department of Religion
George Washington University
2106 G Street, NW
Washington DC, 20052


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From hr at ivs.edu  Sun Sep  4 19:17:00 2016
From: hr at ivs.edu (HdGoswami)
Date: Sun, 04 Sep 16 12:17:00 -0700
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Scribe Ganesha
In-Reply-To: <CAKdt-CdYgwk09EXTE3Pm6QZygt2dMEvZUOpoqnkJfkfv7yHUTQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1473016504-7276453.87375997.fu84JDqiI019517@rs143.luxsci.com>

Thank you. Much appreciated.
Best,
Howard

> On Sep 4, 2016, at 10:47 AM, Dominik Wujastyk <wujastyk at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> The Sanskrit you are looking for is in the Southern Recension.  See the highlighted "Ga?e?a" words in adhy?ya 1:
> http://sarit.indology.info/exist/apps/sarit/works/%C4%81diparva__adhy%C4%81ya_001.html?action=search#1.3.4.3.8.121 <http://sarit.indology.info/exist/apps/sarit/works/%C4%81diparva__adhy%C4%81ya_001.html?action=search#1.3.4.3.8.121>
> Reference: http://sarit.indology.info/exist/apps/sarit/works/sarit__mah%C4%81bh%C4%81rata#mb-krishnacharya <http://sarit.indology.info/exist/apps/sarit/works/sarit__mah%C4%81bh%C4%81rata#mb-krishnacharya>
> 
> Best,
> Dominik Wujastyk
> 
> --
> Professor Dominik Wujastyk* <http://ualberta.academia.edu/DominikWujastyk>
> Singhmar Chair in Classical Indian Society and Polity
> Department of History and Classics <http://historyandclassics.ualberta.ca/>
> University of Alberta, Canada
> 
>  <https://mail.google.com/mail/u/0/goog_1525257691>
> ?sas.ualberta.ca? <http://sas.ualberta.ca/>
> 
> 
> On 4 September 2016 at 09:10, HdGoswami <hr at ivs.edu <mailto:hr at ivs.edu>> wrote:
> We have all heard the popular story that Vyasa dictated the Mahabharata to his scribe Ganesha. This story does not appear in the critical text of the MBh, though it does appear in alternate readings that didn?t make it into the CE?s main text. I have access to a digital copy of the critical edition?s supplementary passages, but I cannot locate therein readings that describe Ganesha the scribe. Since Ganguly includes this Ganesh story in his translation somewhere around CE 1.1.56, I have been checking the Adi-parva alternative readings, but I can?t find the Ganesha story  either in the CE?s running list of shorter alternative readings for 1.1, or at the end where the CE gives longer supplementary passages.
> 
> I would appreciate any help in finding the alternative Sanskrit readings that give the Ganesha story. 
> 
> For reference, here is Ganguly?s translation, roughly around 1.1.56 of the CE:
> 
> "Sauti said, 'Brahma having thus spoken to Vyasa, retired to his own abode. Then Vyasa began to call to mind Ganesa. And Ganesa, obviator of obstacles, ready to fulfil the desires of his votaries, was no sooner thought of, than he repaired to the place where Vyasa was seated. And when he had been saluted, and was seated, Vyasa addressed him thus, 'O guide of the Ganas! be thou the writer of the Bharata which I have formed in my imagination, and which I am about to repeat."
> "Ganesa, upon hearing this address, thus answered, 'I will become the writer of thy work, provided my pen do not for a moment cease writing." And Vyasa said unto that divinity, 'Wherever there be anything thou dost not comprehend, cease to continue writing.' Ganesa having signified his assent, by repeating the word Om! proceeded to write; and Vyasa began; and by way of diversion, he knit the knots of composition exceeding close;"
> 
> Many thanks.
> Howard
> 	
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info <mailto:INDOLOGY at list.indology.info>
> indology-owner at list.indology.info <mailto:indology-owner at list.indology.info> (messages to the list's managing committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info <http://listinfo.indology.info/> (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe)
> 



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From hr at ivs.edu  Sun Sep  4 19:17:51 2016
From: hr at ivs.edu (HdGoswami)
Date: Sun, 04 Sep 16 12:17:51 -0700
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Scribe Ganesha
In-Reply-To: <CADRWd6F2765AfPMOX6nU0H6XmTf4Gq0Cux_tDoPVKDG5QKQWXQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1473016564-1648592.22150884.fu84JDqiJ019517@rs143.luxsci.com>

Thank you very much.
Best,
Howard

> On Sep 4, 2016, at 10:57 AM, Alfred Hiltebeitel <beitel at gwu.edu> wrote:
> 
> Bruce Sullivan's book on Vyasa also has the N an S texts and in translation.
> 
> On Sun, Sep 4, 2016 at 1:47 PM, Dominik Wujastyk <wujastyk at gmail.com <mailto:wujastyk at gmail.com>> wrote:
> The Sanskrit you are looking for is in the Southern Recension.  See the highlighted "Ga?e?a" words in adhy?ya 1:
> http://sarit.indology.info/exist/apps/sarit/works/%C4%81diparva__adhy%C4%81ya_001.html?action=search#1.3.4.3.8.121 <http://sarit.indology.info/exist/apps/sarit/works/%C4%81diparva__adhy%C4%81ya_001.html?action=search#1.3.4.3.8.121>
> Reference: http://sarit.indology.info/exist/apps/sarit/works/sarit__mah%C4%81bh%C4%81rata#mb-krishnacharya <http://sarit.indology.info/exist/apps/sarit/works/sarit__mah%C4%81bh%C4%81rata#mb-krishnacharya>
> 
> Best,
> Dominik Wujastyk
> 
> --
> Professor Dominik Wujastyk* <http://ualberta.academia.edu/DominikWujastyk>
> Singhmar Chair in Classical Indian Society and Polity
> Department of History and Classics <http://historyandclassics.ualberta.ca/>
> University of Alberta, Canada
> 
>  <https://mail.google.com/mail/u/0/goog_1525257691>
> ?sas.ualberta.ca? <http://sas.ualberta.ca/>
> 
> 
> On 4 September 2016 at 09:10, HdGoswami <hr at ivs.edu <mailto:hr at ivs.edu>> wrote:
> We have all heard the popular story that Vyasa dictated the Mahabharata to his scribe Ganesha. This story does not appear in the critical text of the MBh, though it does appear in alternate readings that didn?t make it into the CE?s main text. I have access to a digital copy of the critical edition?s supplementary passages, but I cannot locate therein readings that describe Ganesha the scribe. Since Ganguly includes this Ganesh story in his translation somewhere around CE 1.1.56, I have been checking the Adi-parva alternative readings, but I can?t find the Ganesha story  either in the CE?s running list of shorter alternative readings for 1.1, or at the end where the CE gives longer supplementary passages.
> 
> I would appreciate any help in finding the alternative Sanskrit readings that give the Ganesha story. 
> 
> For reference, here is Ganguly?s translation, roughly around 1.1.56 of the CE:
> 
> "Sauti said, 'Brahma having thus spoken to Vyasa, retired to his own abode. Then Vyasa began to call to mind Ganesa. And Ganesa, obviator of obstacles, ready to fulfil the desires of his votaries, was no sooner thought of, than he repaired to the place where Vyasa was seated. And when he had been saluted, and was seated, Vyasa addressed him thus, 'O guide of the Ganas! be thou the writer of the Bharata which I have formed in my imagination, and which I am about to repeat."
> "Ganesa, upon hearing this address, thus answered, 'I will become the writer of thy work, provided my pen do not for a moment cease writing." And Vyasa said unto that divinity, 'Wherever there be anything thou dost not comprehend, cease to continue writing.' Ganesa having signified his assent, by repeating the word Om! proceeded to write; and Vyasa began; and by way of diversion, he knit the knots of composition exceeding close;"
> 
> Many thanks.
> Howard
> 	
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info <mailto:INDOLOGY at list.indology.info>
> indology-owner at list.indology.info <mailto:indology-owner at list.indology.info> (messages to the list's managing committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info <http://listinfo.indology.info/> (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe)
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info <mailto:INDOLOGY at list.indology.info>
> indology-owner at list.indology.info <mailto:indology-owner at list.indology.info> (messages to the list's managing committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info <http://listinfo.indology.info/> (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe)
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Alf Hiltebeitel
> Professor of Religion, History and Human Sciences
> Department of Religion
> George Washington University
> 2106 G Street, NW
> Washington DC, 20052
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
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From wujastyk at gmail.com  Sun Sep  4 21:32:27 2016
From: wujastyk at gmail.com (Dominik Wujastyk)
Date: Sun, 04 Sep 16 15:32:27 -0600
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Scribe Ganesha
In-Reply-To: <CAKdt-CdYgwk09EXTE3Pm6QZygt2dMEvZUOpoqnkJfkfv7yHUTQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAKdt-Cf9bS8cFn5jGsCsSWM3PDSf78RhTrcj2m=c-w03WRK-kQ@mail.gmail.com>

On 4 September 2016 at 11:47, Dominik Wujastyk <wujastyk at gmail.com> wrote:

> The Sanskrit you are looking for is in the Southern Recension.  See the
> highlighted "Ga?e?a" words in adhy?ya 1:
>
>    - http://sarit.indology.info/exist/apps/sarit/works/%C4%
>    81diparva__adhy%C4%81ya_001.html?action=search#1.3.4.3.8.121
>    <http://sarit.indology.info/exist/apps/sarit/works/%C4%81diparva__adhy%C4%81ya_001.html?action=search#1.3.4.3.8.121>
>
>
?That url didn't work.  Apologies!  Try this instead:

   -
   http://sarit.indology.info/exist/apps/sarit/works/%C4%81diparva__adhy%C4%81ya_001.html?action=search#1.3.4.3.8.121
   ?


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From wujastyk at gmail.com  Sun Sep  4 22:20:49 2016
From: wujastyk at gmail.com (Dominik Wujastyk)
Date: Sun, 04 Sep 16 16:20:49 -0600
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Scribe Ganesha
In-Reply-To: <CAKdt-Cf9bS8cFn5jGsCsSWM3PDSf78RhTrcj2m=c-w03WRK-kQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAKdt-Cdt2YNVWX7-H55W6EPiQbaGuL0yJ3Zv+Fw-T_Kf61bgwA@mail.gmail.com>

I dunno.  Still not working, and I don't know why.  Works fine sometimes on
my computer, but not other times.  Here's the adhyaya
<http://sarit.indology.info/exist/apps/sarit/works/%C4%81diparva__adhy%C4%81ya_001.html>,
in any case. Search for ????.





On 4 September 2016 at 15:32, Dominik Wujastyk <wujastyk at gmail.com> wrote:

> On 4 September 2016 at 11:47, Dominik Wujastyk <wujastyk at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> The Sanskrit you are looking for is in the Southern Recension.  See the
>> highlighted "Ga?e?a" words in adhy?ya 1:
>>
>>    - http://sarit.indology.info/exist/apps/sarit/works/%C4%81dipa
>>    rva__adhy%C4%81ya_001.html?action=search#1.3.4.3.8.121
>>    <http://sarit.indology.info/exist/apps/sarit/works/%C4%81diparva__adhy%C4%81ya_001.html?action=search#1.3.4.3.8.121>
>>
>>
> ?That url didn't work.  Apologies!  Try this instead:
>
>    -  http://sarit.indology.info/exist/apps/sarit/works/%C4%
>    81diparva__adhy%C4%81ya_001.html?action=search#1.3.4.3.8.121
>    <http://sarit.indology.info/exist/apps/sarit/works/%C4%81diparva__adhy%C4%81ya_001.html?action=search#1.3.4.3.8.121>
>    ?
>
>
>


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From hr at ivs.edu  Sun Sep  4 22:27:27 2016
From: hr at ivs.edu (Howard Resnick)
Date: Sun, 04 Sep 16 15:27:27 -0700
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Scribe Ganesha
In-Reply-To: <CAKdt-Cdt2YNVWX7-H55W6EPiQbaGuL0yJ3Zv+Fw-T_Kf61bgwA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <A817A54F-58B9-4791-A2DF-66C00627254B@ivs.edu>

It works consistently for me. Thanks for your concern.

> On Sep 4, 2016, at 3:20 PM, Dominik Wujastyk <wujastyk at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> I dunno.  Still not working, and I don't know why.  Works fine sometimes on my computer, but not other times.  Here's the adhyaya <http://sarit.indology.info/exist/apps/sarit/works/%C4%81diparva__adhy%C4%81ya_001.html>, in any case. Search for ????.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On 4 September 2016 at 15:32, Dominik Wujastyk <wujastyk at gmail.com <mailto:wujastyk at gmail.com>> wrote:
> On 4 September 2016 at 11:47, Dominik Wujastyk <wujastyk at gmail.com <mailto:wujastyk at gmail.com>> wrote:
> The Sanskrit you are looking for is in the Southern Recension.  See the highlighted "Ga?e?a" words in adhy?ya 1:
> http://sarit.indology.info/exist/apps/sarit/works/%C4%81diparva__adhy%C4%81ya_001.html?action=search#1.3.4.3.8.121 <http://sarit.indology.info/exist/apps/sarit/works/%C4%81diparva__adhy%C4%81ya_001.html?action=search#1.3.4.3.8.121>
> 
> ?That url didn't work.  Apologies!  Try this instead:
>  http://sarit.indology.info/exist/apps/sarit/works/%C4%81diparva__adhy%C4%81ya_001.html?action=search#1.3.4.3.8.121 <http://sarit.indology.info/exist/apps/sarit/works/%C4%81diparva__adhy%C4%81ya_001.html?action=search#1.3.4.3.8.121>?
> 
> 



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From nmisra at gmail.com  Mon Sep  5 00:43:48 2016
From: nmisra at gmail.com (Nityanand Misra)
Date: Mon, 05 Sep 16 06:13:48 +0530
Subject: [INDOLOGY] pAnIya and buDana
In-Reply-To: <CAB3-dzdXGeE3zTaXanzA+npTUOFt4cuyKro+iR-QYbbvStA5eA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAATk=rDTbV33z5pTDpJ+_iXkui2peg5pqiu4usG-6akThNaTGA@mail.gmail.com>

On 3 September 2016 at 18:27, Madhav Deshpande <mmdesh at umich.edu> wrote:

> For what it is worth, the verb bu?a?e in Marathi has the sense of drowning
> in water, and this is cognate with the Hindi verb ??bn?.  It is possible
> that bu?ana in this T?jik text is a vernacular word in the sense of
> drowning in water as one of the dangers.
>
> Madhav Deshpande
>
>
>
In Awadhi, the word ??? with the retroflex flap also means to drown. It is
commonly used in the Ramacharitamanasa (composed c. 1574-76) and the
following instances are some examples from the epic:

1_261_00_SRTH_2 ??? ?? ??? ???? ??? ?? ???????? ??? ???
1_299_07_CPAI_1 ?? ?? ????? ????? ?? ???? ??? ? ??? ??? ???????
2_086_03_CPAI_1 ????? ???????? ??? ?????? ??? ???? ?? ???? ??????
2_149_01_CPAI_1 ??? ??????? ????? ?? ???? ???? ??? ???? ??? ????
2_154_07_CPAI_1 ???? ???? ? ???? ????? ????? ? ?????? ?? ????????
2_184_00_DOHA_2 ??? ????? ???? ????? ??? ?????? ??????
2_232_02_CPAI_1 ???? ?? ?????? ??????? ??? ??? ??? ???? ?????
2_286_07_CPAI_1 ??????? ???? ????? ???? ???? ???? ???? ??? ????????
5_014_02_CPAI_1 ???? ???? ???? ????????? ???? ??? ?? ??? ???????
6_003_08_CPAI_1 ?????? ????? ?????? ???? ?? ??? ????? ?? ????
6_022_06_CPAI_1 ???? ??? ??? ??????? ???? ? ???? ???? ?????????
6_026_03_CPAI_1 ???? ???? ???? ?? ????? ???? ??? ????? ??? ?????
6_028_03_CPAI_1 ?? ??? ???? ?? ?? ????? ??? ???? ??? ??? ?? ?????
7_005_10_HRGT_4 ???? ???? ????? ????????? ???? ?? ??? ?????


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From dnreigle at gmail.com  Mon Sep  5 02:51:20 2016
From: dnreigle at gmail.com (David and Nancy Reigle)
Date: Sun, 04 Sep 16 20:51:20 -0600
Subject: [INDOLOGY] aja as ajaya?
In-Reply-To: <4A23878E-5B77-473F-9DB9-50FA68F458B5@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAPAZekaq2E6NUh9aeN1ifTpQodvxob66xwvrwtjw83EWSYvd1A@mail.gmail.com>

Dear Ashok (and all),

Your well-considered observations on this puzzling problem are very much
appreciated. They make perfect sense to me, and few doubts would remain if
we were dealing with a text written in normal Sanskrit. The m?la
*K?lacakra-tantra*, however, is not written in normal Sanskrit. Nor is it
written in Buddhist Hybrid Sanskrit, the language described by Franklin
Edgerton that is seen in old verses preserved in Buddhist texts. It is not
even written in ?just bad Sanskrit,? as David Snellgrove characterized the
language of the Buddhist *Hevajra-tantra* in 1959, often repeated by others
since. The peculiarities of its language were briefly described by
Pu??ar?ka at the end of the third introductory section of his *Vimalaprabh?*
commentary on the laghu *K?lacakra-tantra*, pp. 29-30 in the 1986 printed
edition (link given earlier). These peculiarities were discussed in detail
by John Newman in the article that Matthew referred to, ?Buddhist Sanskrit
in the K?lacakra Tantra? (attached).


One of the items in Pu??ar?ka?s summary of its linguistic peculiarities
specifically pertains to meter: kvacit v?tte yati-bha?ga?. While the *yati*
or metrical pause is not the particular problem that we are dealing with,
it does serve to show that we should not expect the meter to be regular.
Indeed, this is what we find. In the small sample of just twenty-one and
one-half verses, besides the p?da containing *aja* that is one syllable
short, there are four p?das that are one syllable long: 11a.  tantre 'smin
??ikul?d?n?m; 13c. sarvanivara?avi?kambh?; 15b. trayoda??nye krame?a te;
22a. laghutantre ma?juvajra? ca. In this text, then, we cannot take for
granted that the verses were originally written correctly in regular meter,
as we can in normal Sanskrit. Snellgrove found the same thing in his
edition of *The Hevajra Tantra* (vol. 2, p. ix): ?More than a hundred lines
are quite irregular, and although they clearly represent *?lokas* of a
kind, it is impossible to see how many of them can ever have been anything
but irregular.?


If we posit that samudravijayo 'ja? in 17b is an error for samudravijayo 'jaya?
that occurred in the copy of the m?la *K?lacakra-tantra* used by Pu??ar?ka,
we must assume that Pu??ar?ka did not catch the error, but retained it in
his quotation from that text and then adopted the erroneous name *aja* in
his commentary on laghu *K?lacakra-tantra* 1.27. Pu??ar?ka is supposed to
be the son of Ma?ju?r? Ya?as, who prepared the laghu or condensed
*K?lacakra-tantra* from the now mostly lost m?la or root *K?lacakra-tantra*.
So he should be ?in the know? about the linguistic peculiarities that he
summarized. Indeed, Pu??ar?ka several times at other places in his
*Vimalaprabh?* commentary points out these very linguistic peculiarities;
for example, saying that here in such and such a word the locative case is
used for the ablative (several examples are given by John Newman in his
article). Yet he did not correct *aja* to *ajaya* in the list of the kings
of ?ambhala, where he himself appears as the second kalk? king, but on the
contrary he adopted *aja* in his commentary at 1.27. While we can explain
the perpetuation of an error in the *Vimalaprabh?* by an unwillingness of
copyists to emend the text, it is harder to explain an error by its author
himself. It is easier to accept such a seeming error as one of the
linguistic peculiarities that he was fully aware of.


As for the meaning of the name, while *ajaya*, ?unconquerable,? clearly
makes a better king?s name, there are a few other names in this list that,
like *aja*, ?unborn,? seem more fitting for some philosophical or cosmic
principle. These are, in the list of kalk? kings: no. 15. *ananta*,
?infinite?; and no. 13. vi?var?pa, ?he whose body is the all, i.e., the
universe?; and in the list of dharmar?ja kings: no. 6. vi?vam?rti, ?he
whose form is the all, i.e., the universe.? We have no indication from
Pu??ar?ka what he understood the name to mean. The earliest of the Tibetan
translations is the one that apparently took *aja* as *abja*, *chu skyes*,
?water-born.? I have no confidence that the next Tibetan translation, *rgyal
dka'*, ?unconquerable,? was any more correct.


Best regards,


David Reigle

Colorado, U.S.A.


On Sat, Sep 3, 2016 at 1:08 PM, Ashok Aklujkar <ashok.aklujkar at gmail.com>
wrote:

> Dear David,
>
> My general experience is that copyists in the Sanskrit/Indic tradition are
> very conservative. Almost always, they do not make emendations and, if they
> do, they usually note them in the margins. Secondly, your mss do not seem
> to fall into versions or recensions. In effect, you have only one ms
> reading aja. Also, you have indicated that the source of the (seemingly)
> multiple attestations is unlikely to have been distant from the autograph
> or a copy that was made available for further copying. There is thus room
> to believe that an oversight made in the autograph or in a released copy of
> the autograph has been faithfully retained. Therefore, unless another
> independent occurrence of aja in the sense of ajaya is found, the
> emendation that occurred to Madhav and you should be accepted. Just as we
> do not accept in a critically constituted text grammatically wrong forms
> obviously incongruent with the rest of an author?s/scribe?s style or
> standard, we should not accept a word for which no external corroboration
> is available, especially if the meaning of that word (?unborn? in this
> case) is unlikely to be confused or associated with a meaning several of us
> have viewed as contextually likely and the expresser of that meaning gives
> us a metrically sound text.
>
> I hope I make sense even if I fail to create conviction.
>


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From ashok.aklujkar at gmail.com  Mon Sep  5 04:39:24 2016
From: ashok.aklujkar at gmail.com (Ashok Aklujkar)
Date: Sun, 04 Sep 16 21:39:24 -0700
Subject: [INDOLOGY] aja as ajaya?
In-Reply-To: <CAPAZekaq2E6NUh9aeN1ifTpQodvxob66xwvrwtjw83EWSYvd1A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <9F732987-C096-44FE-8599-A9986BBBBC19@gmail.com>

Dear David,

You make a good case for a special treatment of your text. Thanks for writing at length.

Best wishes.

ashok






From nagarajpaturi at gmail.com  Mon Sep  5 04:49:13 2016
From: nagarajpaturi at gmail.com (Nagaraj Paturi)
Date: Mon, 05 Sep 16 10:19:13 +0530
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Earliest attestation of the elements in Indian	thought?
In-Reply-To: <CAKdt-CeapwVJfruhPRNsPJ9Njw3pmMuS_PwJVc4az3ux+90WSQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAJGj9ebCgVumxGo9Vo2vNbk5n650A6eWSWJQfkKqHCoOTnqj2w@mail.gmail.com>

I could not access the full article.

Hope the article covered issues such as how the number grew from 5 to 8 as
in

????????????????????????????? ???????? ??????
 ????????? ?????????????????????????????????

(???????????????????? )

On Sun, Sep 4, 2016 at 10:56 PM, Dominik Wujastyk <wujastyk at gmail.com>
wrote:

> See the sophisticated study "Mah?bh?tas
> <http://referenceworks.brillonline.com/entries/brill-s-encyclopedia-of-hinduism/mahabhutas-COM_2050180>"
> by Karin Preisendanz in *Brill's Encyclopedia of Hinduism*, that
> considers this topic from several previously unproblematized angles.
>
> ??
> Karin Preisendanz, ?Mah?bh?tas?, in:
> *??Brill?s Encyclopedia of Hinduism*, Edited by: Knut A. Jacobsen, Helene
> Basu, Angelika Malinar, Vasudha Narayanan. Consulted online on 04 September
> 2016 <http://dx.doi.org/10.1163/2212-5019_beh_COM_2050180>
> First published online: 2012
>
>
> --
> Professor Dominik Wujastyk* <http://ualberta.academia.edu/DominikWujastyk>
> Singhmar Chair in Classical Indian Society and Polity
> Department of History and Classics
> <http://historyandclassics.ualberta.ca/>
> University of Alberta, Canada
>
> <https://mail.google.com/mail/u/0/goog_1525257691>
> ?sas.ualberta.ca?
>
>
> On 31 August 2016 at 12:11, Dean Michael Anderson via INDOLOGY <
> indology at list.indology.info> wrote:
>
>> _______________________________________________
>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
>> committee)
>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
>> unsubscribe)
>>
>> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
>> From: Dean Michael Anderson <eastwestcultural at yahoo.com>
>> To: Indology List <indology at list.indology.info>
>> Cc:
>> Date: Wed, 31 Aug 2016 18:07:38 +0000 (UTC)
>> Subject: Earliest attestation of the elements in Indian thought?
>> Does anyone know which text has the earliest mention of the four or five
>> elements?
>>
>> Best,
>>
>> Dean Anderson
>> East West Cultural Institute
>>
>>
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
> committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
> unsubscribe)
>



-- 
Nagaraj Paturi

Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.

Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies

FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of  Liberal Education,

(Pune, Maharashtra, INDIA )


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From eastwestcultural at yahoo.com  Mon Sep  5 05:01:11 2016
From: eastwestcultural at yahoo.com (Dean Michael Anderson)
Date: Mon, 05 Sep 16 05:01:11 +0000
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Earliest attestation of the elements in Indian thought?
In-Reply-To: <CAKdt-CeapwVJfruhPRNsPJ9Njw3pmMuS_PwJVc4az3ux+90WSQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1056553119.1536032.1473051671542@mail.yahoo.com>

Thanks.

      From: Dominik Wujastyk <wujastyk at gmail.com>
 To: Dean Michael Anderson <eastwestcultural at yahoo.com> 
Cc: Indology List <indology at list.indology.info>
 Sent: Sunday, September 4, 2016 10:56 PM
 Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] Earliest attestation of the elements in Indian thought?
   
See the sophisticated study "Mah?bh?tas" by Karin Preisendanz in Brill's Encyclopedia of Hinduism, that considers this topic from several previously unproblematized angles.

??Karin Preisendanz, ?Mah?bh?tas?, in: ??Brill?s Encyclopedia of Hinduism, Edited by: Knut A. Jacobsen, Helene Basu, Angelika Malinar, Vasudha Narayanan. Consulted online on 04 September 2016 <http://dx.doi.org/10.1163/2212-5019_beh_COM_2050180>
First published online: 2012

--
Professor Dominik Wujastyk*
Singhmar Chair in Classical Indian Society and Polity
Department of History and Classics
University of Alberta, Canada

?sas.ualberta.ca?

On 31 August 2016 at 12:11, Dean Michael Anderson via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info> wrote:

______________________________ _________________
INDOLOGY mailing list
INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
indology-owner at list.indology. info (messages to the list's managing committee)
http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe)

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From:?Dean Michael Anderson <eastwestcultural at yahoo.com>
To:?Indology List <indology at list.indology.info>
Cc:?
Date:?Wed, 31 Aug 2016 18:07:38 +0000 (UTC)
Subject:?Earliest attestation of the elements in Indian thought?
Does anyone know which text has the earliest mention of the four or five elements?
Best,
Dean AndersonEast West Cultural Institute





   


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From wujastyk at gmail.com  Mon Sep  5 05:53:06 2016
From: wujastyk at gmail.com (Dominik Wujastyk)
Date: Sun, 04 Sep 16 23:53:06 -0600
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Scribe Ganesha
In-Reply-To: <A817A54F-58B9-4791-A2DF-66C00627254B@ivs.edu>
Message-ID: <CAKdt-CdRLkDx0cjXU-kmbyTvdhZPnKZMGWe9VMwvSjx5b83TKw@mail.gmail.com>

I'm relieved to hear it. I'd quite like it if SARIT worked :-)


On 4 September 2016 at 16:27, Howard Resnick <hr at ivs.edu> wrote:

> It works consistently for me. Thanks for your concern.
>
>


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From martin.gansten at pbhome.se  Mon Sep  5 06:20:03 2016
From: martin.gansten at pbhome.se (Martin Gansten)
Date: Mon, 05 Sep 16 08:20:03 +0200
Subject: [INDOLOGY] pAnIya and buDana
In-Reply-To: <CAATk=rDTbV33z5pTDpJ+_iXkui2peg5pqiu4usG-6akThNaTGA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <50c12dd0-610c-4032-1150-73b3d821ae59@pbhome.se>

Thank you, Nityanand, for this confirmation of the meaning of bu?/b??. 
Many thanks also to Roland Steiner, who, off-list, supplied me with a 
number of textual references to the use of p?n?ya in the generalized 
sense of water (unrelated to drinking).

Martin G.


Den 2016-09-05 kl. 02:43, skrev Nityanand Misra:
> In Awadhi, the word ??? with the retroflex flap also means to drown. 
> It is commonly used in the Ramacharitamanasa (composed c. 1574-76) and 
> the following instances are some examples from the epic: [...]



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From dharmaprof108 at yahoo.com  Mon Sep  5 16:12:54 2016
From: dharmaprof108 at yahoo.com (Jeffery Long)
Date: Mon, 05 Sep 16 16:12:54 +0000
Subject: Question on Diacritical Marks
In-Reply-To: <1785628438.373527.1473091974175.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1785628438.373527.1473091974175@mail.yahoo.com>

Dear Colleagues,
I have a somewhat delicate question on which I would appreciate your candid opinions.
Imagine a doctoral dissertation in the field of philosophy. ?The primary?audience for this dissertation is other philosophers, most of whom are likely to have little or no expertise in the field of Indology. ?The dissertation does, however, engage quite extensively with Indic philosophical traditions and texts, and does so in a serious and responsible fashion. ?Because the author him or herself is also, however, primarily a philosopher and not an Indologist, s/he does not deploy diacritical marks in presenting Sanskrit terms.
How would such a dissertation be regarded by most of you? ?Would the non-use of diacritical marks alone disqualify this work from being taken seriously? ?(My own reaction: I would personally find it distracting and irritating, but not disqualifying if the scholarship were otherwise sound.) ?Your thoughts?
With thanks in advance,

Jeff?Dr. Jeffery D. Long
Professor of Religion and Asian Studies
Elizabethtown CollegeElizabethtown, PA
https://etown.academia.edu/JefferyLong
Series Editor,?Explorations in Indic Traditions: Theological, Ethical, and PhilosophicalLexington Books
Consulting Editor,?Sutra Journalhttp://www.sutrajournal.com

"One who makes a habit of prayer and meditation will easily overcome all difficulties and remain calm and unruffled in the midst of the trials of life." ?(Holy Mother Sarada Devi)


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From mkapstei at uchicago.edu  Mon Sep  5 16:35:47 2016
From: mkapstei at uchicago.edu (Matthew Kapstein)
Date: Mon, 05 Sep 16 16:35:47 +0000
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Question on Diacritical Marks
In-Reply-To: <mailman.4945.1473092017.13775.indology_list.indology.info@list.indology.info>
Message-ID: <82C3E42590D939418C74DD76B97DDED047BBABFA@xm-mbx-06-prod>

Dear Jeffrey,

Scholarly publications on Indological topics, but not destined solely for Indological
readership, are increasingly dispensing with diacritical marks. If the scholarship is
sound, I think that gives you a precedent. But I suppose I would want a doctoral
student dealing with this material to be familiar with correct usage and so perhaps
to supply an index in which the diacritical marks are given -- but that's just my preference.

best,
Matthew

Matthew Kapstein
Directeur d'?tudes,
Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes

Numata Visiting Professor of Buddhist Studies,
The University of Chicago

_________




From adheesh1 at gmail.com  Mon Sep  5 17:12:35 2016
From: adheesh1 at gmail.com (Adheesh Sathaye)
Date: Mon, 05 Sep 16 10:12:35 -0700
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Question on Diacritical Marks
In-Reply-To: <mailman.4945.1473092017.13775.indology_list.indology.info@list.indology.info>
Message-ID: <DF161E17-9F4B-4887-8289-5198CB7967B5@gmail.com>

Dear Jeffery,

In general, regardless of audience, I would feel that it?s acceptable, and sometimes even preferable to do away with diacritic marks and go with commonly observable Roman-script spellings for Sanskrit terms, or Tamil or Arabic or any language X terms for that matter, if these are isolated terms within what is otherwise a complete English sentence (or German or French or any language Y sentence). If you make mistakes in diacritics, for example, it can lead to serious errors, say if you were to make claims about R?ma?s b?la instead of his bala. 

But if one encounters an entire phrase, sentence, or passage that is without diacritics, then trying to read it becomes a total train wreck. 

Just consider what would happen the other way around? 

??? ?? ????? ????-???? ????? ???? ??  ??-?? ?????? ??????, ?? ??? ??? ??? ?? ?
?????, ?? ?? ??? ?? ??? ? ??? ???????? ???? ???, ?? ???? ??? ? ??? ?????, ?? ??? ?????????? ?? ?????? ? 

How?s that for candid? 
cheers,
Adheesh




?
Dr. Adheesh Sathaye
Dept. of Asian Studies
University of British Columbia
408-1871 West Mall
Vancouver BC CANADA V6T1Z2
adheesh at mail.ubc.ca 
+1.604.822.5188

http://www.ubcsanskrit.ca
http://www.asianfolklore.ca

> On Sep 5, 2016, at 09.13, Jeffery Long via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info> wrote:
> 
> 
> From: Jeffery Long <dharmaprof108 at yahoo.com>
> Subject: Question on Diacritical Marks
> Date: September 5, 2016 at 09.12.54 PDT
> To: Indology List <indology at list.indology.info>
> Reply-To: Jeffery Long <dharmaprof108 at yahoo.com>
> 
> 
> Dear Colleagues,
> 
> I have a somewhat delicate question on which I would appreciate your candid opinions.
> 
> Imagine a doctoral dissertation in the field of philosophy.  The primary audience for this dissertation is other philosophers, most of whom are likely to have little or no expertise in the field of Indology.  The dissertation does, however, engage quite extensively with Indic philosophical traditions and texts, and does so in a serious and responsible fashion.  Because the author him or herself is also, however, primarily a philosopher and not an Indologist, s/he does not deploy diacritical marks in presenting Sanskrit terms.
> 
> How would such a dissertation be regarded by most of you?  Would the non-use of diacritical marks alone disqualify this work from being taken seriously?  (My own reaction: I would personally find it distracting and irritating, but not disqualifying if the scholarship were otherwise sound.)  Your thoughts?
> 
> With thanks in advance,
> 
> Jeff
>  
> Dr. Jeffery D. Long
> Professor of Religion and Asian Studies
> Elizabethtown College
> Elizabethtown, PA
> 
> https://etown.academia.edu/JefferyLong
> 
> Series Editor, Explorations in Indic Traditions: Theological, Ethical, and Philosophical
> Lexington Books
> 
> Consulting Editor, Sutra Journal
> http://www.sutrajournal.com
> 
> "One who makes a habit of prayer and meditation will easily overcome all difficulties and remain calm and unruffled in the midst of the trials of life."  (Holy Mother Sarada Devi)
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe)









From ashok.aklujkar at gmail.com  Mon Sep  5 17:17:57 2016
From: ashok.aklujkar at gmail.com (Ashok Aklujkar)
Date: Mon, 05 Sep 16 10:17:57 -0700
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Question on Diacritical Marks
In-Reply-To: <82C3E42590D939418C74DD76B97DDED047BBABFA@xm-mbx-06-prod>
Message-ID: <E8AB55FB-132E-463D-A8B7-093336B835BE@mail.ubc.ca>

Jeffrey,

My view is the same as Matthew?s. However, I feel sad that in allowing a diacritic-less text we help the imperialistic current in the English-speaking world and lose an opportunity to inculcate in our students and their readers the habit of enjoying diversity. 

a.a.




From nagarajpaturi at gmail.com  Mon Sep  5 17:51:08 2016
From: nagarajpaturi at gmail.com (Nagaraj Paturi)
Date: Mon, 05 Sep 16 23:21:08 +0530
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Question on Diacritical Marks
In-Reply-To: <E8AB55FB-132E-463D-A8B7-093336B835BE@mail.ubc.ca>
Message-ID: <CAJGj9ebc_Xhg=SMagZGy3gEB8Mxv=rXHtsYiSDr_w5WcErQfYw@mail.gmail.com>

Dear list,

What do we have to stipulate if a student of Economics needs to use
mathematical symbols in his or her dissertation?

Or, if a research-student  of a non-chemistry discipline needs to mention a
chemical equation with symbols?



On Mon, Sep 5, 2016 at 10:47 PM, Ashok Aklujkar <ashok.aklujkar at gmail.com>
wrote:

> Jeffrey,
>
> My view is the same as Matthew?s. However, I feel sad that in allowing a
> diacritic-less text we help the imperialistic current in the
> English-speaking world and lose an opportunity to inculcate in our students
> and their readers the habit of enjoying diversity.
>
> a.a.
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
> committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
> unsubscribe)
>



-- 
Nagaraj Paturi

Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.

Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies

FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of  Liberal Education,

(Pune, Maharashtra, INDIA )


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From jean-luc.chevillard at univ-paris-diderot.fr  Mon Sep  5 17:58:57 2016
From: jean-luc.chevillard at univ-paris-diderot.fr (Jean-Luc Chevillard)
Date: Mon, 05 Sep 16 23:28:57 +0530
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Question on Diacritical Marks
In-Reply-To: <mailman.4945.1473092017.13775.indology_list.indology.info@list.indology.info>
Message-ID: <cb637855-8c8d-54db-3a12-feed3ccd3184@univ-paris-diderot.fr>

I personally regard such a practice as a *DISGRACE*.

This is my frank opinion.

Thanks for asking :-)


-- Jean-Luc Chevillard (CNRS, Paris, Laboratoire d'Histoire des Th?ories 
Linguistiques [UMR 7597])



"https://univ-paris-diderot.academia.edu/JeanLucChevillard"



On 05/09/2016 21:43, Jeffery Long via INDOLOGY wrote:
> Subject:
> Question on Diacritical Marks
> From:
> Jeffery Long <dharmaprof108 at yahoo.com>
> Date:
> 05/09/2016 21:42
>
> To:
> Indology List <indology at list.indology.info>
>
>
> Dear Colleagues,
>
> I have a somewhat delicate question on which I would appreciate your
> candid opinions.
>
> Imagine a doctoral dissertation in the field of philosophy.  The
> primary audience for this dissertation is other philosophers, most of
> whom are likely to have little or no expertise in the field of Indology.
>  The dissertation does, however, engage quite extensively with Indic
> philosophical traditions and texts, and does so in a serious and
> responsible fashion.  Because the author him or herself is also,
> however, primarily a philosopher and not an Indologist, s/he does not
> deploy diacritical marks in presenting Sanskrit terms.
>
> How would such a dissertation be regarded by most of you?  Would the
> non-use of diacritical marks alone disqualify this work from being taken
> seriously?  (My own reaction: I would personally find it distracting and
> irritating, but not disqualifying if the scholarship were otherwise
> sound.)  Your thoughts?
>
> With thanks in advance,
>
> Jeff
>
> Dr. Jeffery D. Long
> Professor of Religion and Asian Studies
> Elizabethtown College
> Elizabethtown, PA
>
> https://etown.academia.edu/JefferyLong
>
> Series Editor, /Explorations in Indic Traditions: Theological, Ethical,
> and Philosophical/
> Lexington Books
>
> Consulting Editor, Sutra Journal
> http://www.sutrajournal.com <http://www.sutrajournal.com/>
>
> "One who makes a habit of prayer and meditation will easily overcome all
> difficulties and remain calm and unruffled in the midst of the trials of
> life."  (Holy Mother Sarada Devi)
>






From hermantull at gmail.com  Mon Sep  5 18:18:24 2016
From: hermantull at gmail.com (Herman Tull)
Date: Mon, 05 Sep 16 14:18:24 -0400
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Fwd:  Question on Diacritical Marks
In-Reply-To: <CAFdBLNiqjX2_R==bxfxQ9f68e8Pk-8CRMoHnZuDjjKqr3CRFww@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAFdBLNgL9aUGyxFfpb0KvzdiAThkCghGRz8M6DjTx7ddkHaGng@mail.gmail.com>

My reply just went to Jeff; here it is.

Herman Tull


---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Herman Tull <hermantull at gmail.com>
Date: Mon, Sep 5, 2016 at 12:23 PM
Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] Question on Diacritical Marks
To: Jeffery Long <dharmaprof108 at yahoo.com>


Hi, Jeff:

Long ago, I used to follow my former mentor Wendy Doniger on this.  To
paraphrase her position, Indologists will know what the Sanskrit words
really are, and non-specialists will not care. But, I no longer agree with
this.  For one thing, with the advent of on-line dictionaries, even
non-scholars (or non
?-?
Indological scholars) have the opportunity to look up terms (and without
the diacriticals those without Sanskrit, or those who have lost their
Sanskrit) are
?lost.
  For another, the ease with which diacriticals can be added
?using modern technology ?
makes it inexcusable to leave them out. (In the the 80s, using one of the
first personal word processing systems, I still had to add them in by hand
? for my dissertation?
.)

Last but not least Sanskrit words are not
?"?
Sanskrit
?"?
at all without the diacriticals.  E.g., the letters "?" and "t" are really
not the same
?
and
?mashing them up into
a single "t"
? is nothing more than a misrepresentation, and
not using diacriticals turns the 48 sounds/letters of Sanskrit into
something they are not.

So, yes.  It is distracting
? not to have them?
, a
?n?
d
?I think a lot
 more. I would demand the
?employment of ?
diacriticals of any scholar who uses Sanskrit.
? ?

best,

Herman

On Mon, Sep 5, 2016 at 12:13 PM, Jeffery Long via INDOLOGY <
indology at list.indology.info> wrote:

> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
> committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
> unsubscribe)
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: Jeffery Long <dharmaprof108 at yahoo.com>
> To: Indology List <indology at list.indology.info>
> Cc:
> Date: Mon, 5 Sep 2016 16:12:54 +0000 (UTC)
> Subject: Question on Diacritical Marks
> Dear Colleagues,
>
> I have a somewhat delicate question on which I would appreciate your
> candid opinions.
>
> Imagine a doctoral dissertation in the field of philosophy.  The
> primary audience for this dissertation is other philosophers, most of whom
> are likely to have little or no expertise in the field of Indology.  The
> dissertation does, however, engage quite extensively with Indic
> philosophical traditions and texts, and does so in a serious and
> responsible fashion.  Because the author him or herself is also, however,
> primarily a philosopher and not an Indologist, s/he does not deploy
> diacritical marks in presenting Sanskrit terms.
>
> How would such a dissertation be regarded by most of you?  Would the
> non-use of diacritical marks alone disqualify this work from being taken
> seriously?  (My own reaction: I would personally find it distracting and
> irritating, but not disqualifying if the scholarship were otherwise sound.)
>  Your thoughts?
>
> With thanks in advance,
>
> Jeff
>
> Dr. Jeffery D. Long
> Professor of Religion and Asian Studies
> Elizabethtown College
> Elizabethtown, PA
>
> https://etown.academia.edu/JefferyLong
>
> Series Editor, *Explorations in Indic Traditions: Theological, Ethical,
> and Philosophical*
> Lexington Books
>
> Consulting Editor, Sutra Journal
> http://www.sutrajournal.com
>
> "One who makes a habit of prayer and meditation will easily overcome all
> difficulties and remain calm and unruffled in the midst of the trials of
> life."  (Holy Mother Sarada Devi)
>
>
>


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From tcoleman at ColoradoCollege.edu  Mon Sep  5 18:27:35 2016
From: tcoleman at ColoradoCollege.edu (Tracy Coleman)
Date: Mon, 05 Sep 16 18:27:35 +0000
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Question on Diacritical Marks
In-Reply-To: <E8AB55FB-132E-463D-A8B7-093336B835BE@mail.ubc.ca>
Message-ID: <BN3PR0601MB1073020CBF1D440AD6D53624CFE60@BN3PR0601MB1073.namprd06.prod.outlook.com>

Jeffrey,


I agree with Matthew and Ashok.  Even undergraduates in my introductory Hinduism course do their best to use proper diacritics, and I require diacritics in senior theses focused on Indic texts and traditions.  If undergraduates take this seriously when required, certainly doctoral students should use diacritics in PhD dissertations.  That diacritics are becoming less common even in scholarly publications, as Matthew notes, is quite problematic, in my opinion.  As I tell my students, Kali and Kali are not the same, so we can't just dismiss the diacritics as meaningless and unnecessary.  But publishers do it, I guess, mostly for the reasons Ashok incisively notes, which is even more disturbing.


Regards to All,


Tracy Coleman

Colorado College


________________________________
From: INDOLOGY <indology-bounces at list.indology.info> on behalf of Ashok Aklujkar <ashok.aklujkar at gmail.com>
Sent: Monday, September 5, 2016 11:17 AM
To: Indology List
Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] Question on Diacritical Marks

Jeffrey,

My view is the same as Matthew's. However, I feel sad that in allowing a diacritic-less text we help the imperialistic current in the English-speaking world and lose an opportunity to inculcate in our students and their readers the habit of enjoying diversity.

a.a.
_______________________________________________
INDOLOGY mailing list
INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee)
http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe)
INDOLOGY Info Page<http://listinfo.indology.info/>
listinfo.indology.info
INDOLOGY is an internet discussion group whose primary purpose is to provide a forum for discussion among professional scholars of classical Indian (South Asian ...





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From c.ram-prasad at lancaster.ac.uk  Mon Sep  5 18:55:32 2016
From: c.ram-prasad at lancaster.ac.uk (Ram-Prasad, Chakravarthi)
Date: Mon, 05 Sep 16 18:55:32 +0000
Subject: [INDOLOGY]  Question on Diacritical Marks
In-Reply-To: <HE1PR0501MB20090E72BD8AB53BDAECD8DDB9E60@HE1PR0501MB2009.eurprd05.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <5622B5FA1B14F3439A3ABC85C5A09EA823EC7F3B@EX-1-MB1.lancs.local>

Speaking of undergraduates, here is the view of a real live one (of languages and classics), admittedly not unrelated to me.

By the way, very funny and telling, Adheesh!

Ram

Chakravarthi Ram-Prasad
Professor of Comparative Philosophy and Religion
Lancaster University
U.K.

______________________________
From: Krishnan Ram-Prasad [kjr50 at cam.ac.uk]
Sent: Monday, September 05, 2016 6:59 PM
To: Ram-Prasad, Chakravarthi
Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] Question on Diacritical Marks

My opinion is that diacritics should always be used except in proper nouns (with a key to explain what they mean at the front of the book). This parallels the classicists' practice of referring to people generally by anglicised names (Ovid, Livy, Mark Anthony etc.) but using actual Latin for other nouns eg. Ovid's 'Amores', Cicero 'in Verrem'.

Obviously when Sanskrit is quoted at length, full diacritics must be used, proper nouns included.


Begin forwarded message:

From: Adheesh Sathaye <adheesh1 at gmail.com<redir.aspx?REF=wDZ84jfjBZTm83QGorsyevG3-17x2qIZFhgYsS5F1kaQIn6avdXTCAFtYWlsdG86YWRoZWVzaDFAZ21haWwuY29t>>
Date: 5 September 2016 at 18:12:35 BST
Cc: Indology List <indology at list.indology.info<redir.aspx?REF=3l43YiSDP5oYDmAjqG1OviIk24RDIMESxXmQhpXv0TqQIn6avdXTCAFtYWlsdG86aW5kb2xvZ3lAbGlzdC5pbmRvbG9neS5pbmZv>>
Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] Question on Diacritical Marks

Dear Jeffery,

In general, regardless of audience, I would feel that it?s acceptable, and sometimes even preferable to do away with diacritic marks and go with commonly observable Roman-script spellings for Sanskrit terms, or Tamil or Arabic or any language X terms for that matter, if these are isolated terms within what is otherwise a complete English sentence (or German or French or any language Y sentence). If you make mistakes in diacritics, for example, it can lead to serious errors, say if you were to make claims about R?ma?s b?la instead of his bala.

But if one encounters an entire phrase, sentence, or passage that is without diacritics, then trying to read it becomes a total train wreck.

Just consider what would happen the other way around?

??? ?? ????? ????-???? ????? ???? ??  ??-?? ?????? ??????, ?? ??? ??? ??? ?? ?
?????, ?? ?? ??? ?? ??? ? ??? ???????? ???? ???, ?? ???? ??? ? ??? ?????, ?? ??? ?????????? ?? ?????? ?

How?s that for candid?
cheers,
Adheesh




?
Dr. Adheesh Sathaye
Dept. of Asian Studies
University of British Columbia
408-1871 West Mall
Vancouver BC CANADA V6T1Z2
adheesh at mail.ubc.ca<redir.aspx?REF=LNzgRN3DcLcFp210xZB-VxviRKG5KGH90fYgsgaGBLKQIn6avdXTCAFtYWlsdG86YWRoZWVzaEBtYWlsLnViYy5jYQ..>
+1.604.822.5188

http://www.ubcsanskrit.ca<redir.aspx?REF=SE5YpsCfPX1SiVsXhHIVGSBGJF4iqYzZVDDOpFPUUfSQIn6avdXTCAFodHRwOi8vd3d3LnViY3NhbnNrcml0LmNh>
http://www.asianfolklore.ca<redir.aspx?REF=s7qIF-r6USNNpDGGw-6GmAFVDLErvsSpFPDz14WdMVOQIn6avdXTCAFodHRwOi8vd3d3LmFzaWFuZm9sa2xvcmUuY2E.>

On Sep 5, 2016, at 09.13, Jeffery Long via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info<redir.aspx?REF=3l43YiSDP5oYDmAjqG1OviIk24RDIMESxXmQhpXv0TqQIn6avdXTCAFtYWlsdG86aW5kb2xvZ3lAbGlzdC5pbmRvbG9neS5pbmZv>> wrote:


From: Jeffery Long <dharmaprof108 at yahoo.com<redir.aspx?REF=FOjqS74XBzuN6bnNXd5jk0QEy9jb7X7eofxuv2JQF7WQIn6avdXTCAFtYWlsdG86ZGhhcm1hcHJvZjEwOEB5YWhvby5jb20.>>
Subject: Question on Diacritical Marks
Date: September 5, 2016 at 09.12.54 PDT
To: Indology List <indology at list.indology.info<redir.aspx?REF=3l43YiSDP5oYDmAjqG1OviIk24RDIMESxXmQhpXv0TqQIn6avdXTCAFtYWlsdG86aW5kb2xvZ3lAbGlzdC5pbmRvbG9neS5pbmZv>>
Reply-To: Jeffery Long <dharmaprof108 at yahoo.com<redir.aspx?REF=FOjqS74XBzuN6bnNXd5jk0QEy9jb7X7eofxuv2JQF7WQIn6avdXTCAFtYWlsdG86ZGhhcm1hcHJvZjEwOEB5YWhvby5jb20.>>


Dear Colleagues,

I have a somewhat delicate question on which I would appreciate your candid opinions.

Imagine a doctoral dissertation in the field of philosophy.  The primary audience for this dissertation is other philosophers, most of whom are likely to have little or no expertise in the field of Indology.  The dissertation does, however, engage quite extensively with Indic philosophical traditions and texts, and does so in a serious and responsible fashion.  Because the author him or herself is also, however, primarily a philosopher and not an Indologist, s/he does not deploy diacritical marks in presenting Sanskrit terms.

How would such a dissertation be regarded by most of you?  Would the non-use of diacritical marks alone disqualify this work from being taken seriously?  (My own reaction: I would personally find it distracting and irritating, but not disqualifying if the scholarship were otherwise sound.)  Your thoughts?

With thanks in advance,

Jeff

Dr. Jeffery D. Long
Professor of Religion and Asian Studies
Elizabethtown College
Elizabethtown, PA

https://etown.academia.edu/JefferyLong<redir.aspx?REF=G85_b0QkNS5-0fou0KViZn4guC06sCkSFhgZ2mbQLLuQIn6avdXTCAFodHRwczovL2V0b3duLmFjYWRlbWlhLmVkdS9KZWZmZXJ5TG9uZw..>

Series Editor, Explorations in Indic Traditions: Theological, Ethical, and Philosophical
Lexington Books

Consulting Editor, Sutra Journal
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From wujastyk at gmail.com  Mon Sep  5 23:46:28 2016
From: wujastyk at gmail.com (Dominik Wujastyk)
Date: Mon, 05 Sep 16 17:46:28 -0600
Subject: [INDOLOGY] pAnIya and buDana
In-Reply-To: <CAB3-dzdXGeE3zTaXanzA+npTUOFt4cuyKro+iR-QYbbvStA5eA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAKdt-CfNcHtOoTjEkN17YU6BiXiefLFi2odfdPD39u+JOjKtRw@mail.gmail.com>

Cf. Turner #9272
<http://dsalsrv02.uchicago.edu/cgi-bin/philologic/getobject.pl?c.2:1:2276.soas>


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From andrew.ollett at gmail.com  Tue Sep  6 01:13:12 2016
From: andrew.ollett at gmail.com (Andrew Ollett)
Date: Tue, 06 Sep 16 06:43:12 +0530
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Question on Diacritical Marks
In-Reply-To: <5622B5FA1B14F3439A3ABC85C5A09EA823EC7F3B@EX-1-MB1.lancs.local>
Message-ID: <CAANHO15c-29VTSa1Z4cBXGzMwk+=_r=dg52pWVu5vYbWkwcHFQ@mail.gmail.com>

The only reason why someone who has taken the trouble of learning the
languages would dispense with a lossless transliteration schema is fear
that the "general reader" will be frightened, or put off, by diacritical
marks. Now for a doctoral dissertation, I think it's probably more
important to show that one knows, e.g., the difference between ??stra and
?astra, or r?ma and ram?, than to placate this mythical "general reader."

Speaking for myself, I think using diacritical marks is the optimal balance
between addressing the needs of a readership that doesn't necessarily know
the script but might nevertheless be interested in what the words
"actually" are. I know, e.g., that Chinese scholars often dispense with
marking tones in their transliterations, and specialist readers know what
the tones are, but this makes it hard for me to look up words in a
dictionary. Similarly with non-scholarly transcriptions of Tibetan, Arabic,
and so on. As a non-specialist in those languages, I would much prefer a
lossless transliteration. It only takes about fifteen minutes on Wikipedia
to familiarize yourself with a transliteration scheme anyway. Of course, I
can't speak for the "general reader" who probably exists only in the board
rooms of publishing firms, but I'd imagine that at the worst this person is
indifferent to diacritics, whereas people like me are positively put off by
the lack of diacritics.

I consider the use of diacritics on a par, in terms of scholarly
discipline, with proper references: just like saying "according to scholars
of the 1890s" doesn't allow interested readers to follow up and raises
doubts (at least in my mind) about whether the author is writing from
first-hand knowledge, writing without diacritics makes it difficult for
non-specialist interested readers to follow up, or to know how it's
pronounced, and makes specialist readers more skeptical of the author's
first-hand knowledge of the language.


On Tue, Sep 6, 2016 at 12:25 AM, Ram-Prasad, Chakravarthi <
c.ram-prasad at lancaster.ac.uk> wrote:

> Speaking of undergraduates, here is the view of a real live one (of
> languages and classics), admittedly not unrelated to me.
>
> By the way, very funny and telling, Adheesh!
>
> Ram
>
> Chakravarthi Ram-Prasad
> Professor of Comparative Philosophy and Religion
> Lancaster University
> U.K.
>
> ______________________________
> *From:* Krishnan Ram-Prasad [kjr50 at cam.ac.uk]
> *Sent:* Monday, September 05, 2016 6:59 PM
> *To:* Ram-Prasad, Chakravarthi
> *Subject:* Re: [INDOLOGY] Question on Diacritical Marks
>
> My opinion is that diacritics should always be used except in proper nouns
> (with a key to explain what they mean at the front of the book). This
> parallels the classicists' practice of referring to people generally by
> anglicised names (Ovid, Livy, Mark Anthony etc.) but using actual Latin for
> other nouns eg. Ovid's 'Amores', Cicero 'in Verrem'.
>
> Obviously when Sanskrit is quoted at length, full diacritics must be used,
> proper nouns included.
>
>
> Begin forwarded message:
>
> *From:* Adheesh Sathaye <adheesh1 at gmail.com
> <http://redir.aspx?REF=wDZ84jfjBZTm83QGorsyevG3-17x2qIZFhgYsS5F1kaQIn6avdXTCAFtYWlsdG86YWRoZWVzaDFAZ21haWwuY29t>
> >
> *Date:* 5 September 2016 at 18:12:35 BST
> *Cc:* Indology List <indology at list.indology.info
> <http://redir.aspx?REF=3l43YiSDP5oYDmAjqG1OviIk24RDIMESxXmQhpXv0TqQIn6avdXTCAFtYWlsdG86aW5kb2xvZ3lAbGlzdC5pbmRvbG9neS5pbmZv>
> >
> *Subject:* *Re: [INDOLOGY] Question on Diacritical Marks*
>
> Dear Jeffery,
>
> In general, regardless of audience, I would feel that it?s acceptable, and
> sometimes even preferable to do away with diacritic marks and go with
> commonly observable Roman-script spellings for Sanskrit terms, or Tamil or
> Arabic or any language X terms for that matter, if these are isolated terms
> within what is otherwise a complete English sentence (or German or French
> or any language Y sentence). If you make mistakes in diacritics, for
> example, it can lead to serious errors, say if you were to make claims
> about R?ma?s b?la instead of his bala.
>
> But if one encounters an entire phrase, sentence, or passage that is
> without diacritics, then trying to read it becomes a total train wreck.
>
> Just consider what would happen the other way around?
>
> ??? ?? ????? ????-???? ????? ???? ??  ??-?? ?????? ??????, ?? ??? ??? ???
> ?? ?
> ?????, ?? ?? ??? ?? ??? ? ??? ???????? ???? ???, ?? ???? ??? ? ??? ?????,
> ?? ??? ?????????? ?? ?????? ?
>
> How?s that for candid?
> cheers,
> Adheesh
>
>
>
>
> ?
> Dr. Adheesh Sathaye
> Dept. of Asian Studies
> University of British Columbia
> 408-1871 West Mall
> Vancouver BC CANADA V6T1Z2
> adheesh at mail.ubc.ca
> <http://redir.aspx?REF=LNzgRN3DcLcFp210xZB-VxviRKG5KGH90fYgsgaGBLKQIn6avdXTCAFtYWlsdG86YWRoZWVzaEBtYWlsLnViYy5jYQ..>
> +1.604.822.5188
>
> http://www.ubcsanskrit.ca
> <http://redir.aspx?REF=SE5YpsCfPX1SiVsXhHIVGSBGJF4iqYzZVDDOpFPUUfSQIn6avdXTCAFodHRwOi8vd3d3LnViY3NhbnNrcml0LmNh>
> http://www.asianfolklore.ca
> <http://redir.aspx?REF=s7qIF-r6USNNpDGGw-6GmAFVDLErvsSpFPDz14WdMVOQIn6avdXTCAFodHRwOi8vd3d3LmFzaWFuZm9sa2xvcmUuY2E.>
>
> On Sep 5, 2016, at 09.13, Jeffery Long via INDOLOGY <
> indology at list.indology.info
> <http://redir.aspx?REF=3l43YiSDP5oYDmAjqG1OviIk24RDIMESxXmQhpXv0TqQIn6avdXTCAFtYWlsdG86aW5kb2xvZ3lAbGlzdC5pbmRvbG9neS5pbmZv>>
> wrote:
>
>
>
> From: Jeffery Long <dharmaprof108 at yahoo.com
> <http://redir.aspx?REF=FOjqS74XBzuN6bnNXd5jk0QEy9jb7X7eofxuv2JQF7WQIn6avdXTCAFtYWlsdG86ZGhhcm1hcHJvZjEwOEB5YWhvby5jb20.>
> >
>
> Subject: Question on Diacritical Marks
>
> Date: September 5, 2016 at 09.12.54 PDT
>
> To: Indology List <indology at list.indology.info
> <http://redir.aspx?REF=3l43YiSDP5oYDmAjqG1OviIk24RDIMESxXmQhpXv0TqQIn6avdXTCAFtYWlsdG86aW5kb2xvZ3lAbGlzdC5pbmRvbG9neS5pbmZv>
> >
>
> Reply-To: Jeffery Long <dharmaprof108 at yahoo.com
> <http://redir.aspx?REF=FOjqS74XBzuN6bnNXd5jk0QEy9jb7X7eofxuv2JQF7WQIn6avdXTCAFtYWlsdG86ZGhhcm1hcHJvZjEwOEB5YWhvby5jb20.>
> >
>
>
>
> Dear Colleagues,
>
>
> I have a somewhat delicate question on which I would appreciate your
> candid opinions.
>
>
> Imagine a doctoral dissertation in the field of philosophy.  The primary
> audience for this dissertation is other philosophers, most of whom are
> likely to have little or no expertise in the field of Indology.  The
> dissertation does, however, engage quite extensively with Indic
> philosophical traditions and texts, and does so in a serious and
> responsible fashion.  Because the author him or herself is also, however,
> primarily a philosopher and not an Indologist, s/he does not deploy
> diacritical marks in presenting Sanskrit terms.
>
>
> How would such a dissertation be regarded by most of you?  Would the
> non-use of diacritical marks alone disqualify this work from being taken
> seriously?  (My own reaction: I would personally find it distracting and
> irritating, but not disqualifying if the scholarship were otherwise sound.)
>  Your thoughts?
>
>
> With thanks in advance,
>
>
> Jeff
>
>
> Dr. Jeffery D. Long
>
> Professor of Religion and Asian Studies
>
> Elizabethtown College
>
> Elizabethtown, PA
>
>
> https://etown.academia.edu/JefferyLong
> <http://redir.aspx?REF=G85_b0QkNS5-0fou0KViZn4guC06sCkSFhgZ2mbQLLuQIn6avdXTCAFodHRwczovL2V0b3duLmFjYWRlbWlhLmVkdS9KZWZmZXJ5TG9uZw..>
>
>
> Series Editor, Explorations in Indic Traditions: Theological, Ethical, and
> Philosophical
>
> Lexington Books
>
>
> Consulting Editor, Sutra Journal
>
> http://www.sutrajournal.com
> <http://redir.aspx?REF=N--aOWd72_pAH_d6jmF7Zn14NJwYsNLNOwsDl8_esTyQIn6avdXTCAFodHRwOi8vd3d3LnN1dHJham91cm5hbC5jb20.>
>
>
> "One who makes a habit of prayer and meditation will easily overcome all
> difficulties and remain calm and unruffled in the midst of the trials of
> life."  (Holy Mother Sarada Devi)
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
>
> INDOLOGY mailing list
>
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
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>
> indology-owner at list.indology.info
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>
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
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From wujastyk at gmail.com  Tue Sep  6 01:33:15 2016
From: wujastyk at gmail.com (Dominik Wujastyk)
Date: Mon, 05 Sep 16 19:33:15 -0600
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Question on Diacritical Marks
In-Reply-To: <CAANHO15c-29VTSa1Z4cBXGzMwk+=_r=dg52pWVu5vYbWkwcHFQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAKdt-Cf1SNwnN-_UdVzV6xeY8stanafx=hBYn23NiZaw8sJ5cA@mail.gmail.com>

I don't have any solid evidence for this, but I assume that transliteration
was invented for Sanskrit because printing Devanagari was difficult.  It
isn't difficult any more.  All modern computers can make a decent fist of
Devanagari.  So why are we routinely using transliteration at all, any
more?  People writing scholarship on Greek or Russian or Armenian don't use
Latin script.  Why should we?

And if you know any other windmills, I'd be glad to tilt at them too. :-)

Best,
Dominik
?


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From psdmccartney at gmail.com  Tue Sep  6 01:53:20 2016
From: psdmccartney at gmail.com (patrick mccartney)
Date: Tue, 06 Sep 16 11:23:20 +0930
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Question on Diacritical Marks
In-Reply-To: <CAKdt-Cf1SNwnN-_UdVzV6xeY8stanafx=hBYn23NiZaw8sJ5cA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAEzwJrBURYY+rf2e+msjut-hdp54Z-w3zR=puqvQ+zS_b11R9w@mail.gmail.com>

I remember the first few yoga books I picked up years ago only had the
???????? and a translation. It forced me to teach myself how to read and
write the script. Perhaps, if those first few books had a transliteration I
would never have bothered?

All the best,

Patrick McCartney, PhD
Fellow
School of Culture, History & Language
College of the Asia-Pacific
The Australian National University
Canberra, Australia, 0200


Skype - psdmccartney
Phone + Whatsapp:  +61 414 954 748
Twitter - @psdmccartney

academia <https://anu-au.academia.edu/patrickmccartney>

   -

Linkedin
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#yogabodyANU2016 symposium
<http://chl.anu.edu.au/news-events/events/658/yoga-and-body-past-and-present-symposium?#tab>

<http://chl.anu.edu.au/news-events/events/658/yoga-and-body-past-and-present-symposium?#tab>

Ep1 - Imagining Sanskrit Land <https://youtu.be/jMi7tkPBbJ4>

Ep 2 - Total-am <https://youtu.be/7tAp8m9RHPU>

Ep 3 - Jalam ? Chillum <https://youtu.be/cLZeuCT_mwQ>

A Day in our Ashram
<https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=ek+din+hamaare+ashram+mein>

Stop animation short film of Shakuntala
<https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LVqBD_2P4Pg>

Forced to Clean Human Waste <http://youtu.be/y3XfjbwqC_g>

One of my favourite song <http://trinityroots.bandcamp.com/track/all-we-be>s





On Tue, Sep 6, 2016 at 11:03 AM, Dominik Wujastyk <wujastyk at gmail.com>
wrote:

> I don't have any solid evidence for this, but I assume that
> transliteration was invented for Sanskrit because printing Devanagari was
> difficult.  It isn't difficult any more.  All modern computers can make a
> decent fist of Devanagari.  So why are we routinely using transliteration
> at all, any more?  People writing scholarship on Greek or Russian or
> Armenian don't use Latin script.  Why should we?
>
> And if you know any other windmills, I'd be glad to tilt at them too. :-)
>
> Best,
> Dominik
> ?
>
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
> committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
> unsubscribe)
>


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From LubinT at wlu.edu  Tue Sep  6 01:55:56 2016
From: LubinT at wlu.edu (Lubin, Tim)
Date: Tue, 06 Sep 16 01:55:56 +0000
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Question on Diacritical Marks
In-Reply-To: <CAKdt-Cf1SNwnN-_UdVzV6xeY8stanafx=hBYn23NiZaw8sJ5cA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <D3F395B8.2CA07%lubint@wlu.edu>

Andrew Ollett?s justification of diacritics in dissertations is exactly right.  They are not that hard for nonspecialists to handle, but provide sufficient information for them to keep track of key terms and names.  It is hard to imagine a dissertation dealing closely with Sanskrit-medium philosophy while dispensing with the tools for representing the language unambiguously.  Jeff, send that dissertation back and have the student make it presentable.

Dominik, I think there are very important reasons for transliterating in discussions of Sanskrit and other Indian texts.  Apart from the dizzying variety of scripts involved in the primary sources, transliteration is a very useful aid for students and other non-specialists.  I recall that even before I learned Sanskrit, I built a repertoire of vocabulary from coursework and reading of secondary sources that allowed my first steps.  Using only Devanagari would please many north Indians, but it would shut out any non-Sanskritist readers in other countries.  And showing word breaks is another useful service.  (A stronger case can of course be made for printing full editions in Devanagari.)

Anyway, it is just not true that secondary-source publications on citing words in Greek, Russian, Armenian, Hebrew, etc. never transliterate.  It just depend on how narrow an audience is envisioned.

Best,

Tim

Timothy Lubin
Professor of Religion and Adjunct Professor of Law
Chair of the Department of Religion
Washington and Lee University
Lexington, Virginia 24450

http://home.wlu.edu/~lubint
http://wlu.academia.edu/TimothyLubin
http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/cf_dev/AbsByAuth.cfm?per_id=930949
?





From: INDOLOGY <indology-bounces at list.indology.info<mailto:indology-bounces at list.indology.info>> on behalf of Dominik Wujastyk <wujastyk at gmail.com<mailto:wujastyk at gmail.com>>
Date: Monday, September 5, 2016 at 9:33 PM
To: Andrew Ollett <andrew.ollett at gmail.com<mailto:andrew.ollett at gmail.com>>
Cc: "indology at list.indology.info<mailto:indology at list.indology.info>" <indology at list.indology.info<mailto:indology at list.indology.info>>
Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] Question on Diacritical Marks

I don't have any solid evidence for this, but I assume that transliteration was invented for Sanskrit because printing Devanagari was difficult.  It isn't difficult any more.  All modern computers can make a decent fist of Devanagari.  So why are we routinely using transliteration at all, any more?  People writing scholarship on Greek or Russian or Armenian don't use Latin script.  Why should we?

And if you know any other windmills, I'd be glad to tilt at them too. :-)

Best,
Dominik
?


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From Palaniappa at aol.com  Tue Sep  6 02:50:53 2016
From: Palaniappa at aol.com (Sudalaimuthu Palaniappan)
Date: Mon, 05 Sep 16 21:50:53 -0500
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Question on Diacritical Marks
In-Reply-To: <D3F395B8.2CA07%lubint@wlu.edu>
Message-ID: <1D80A509-8E5C-4A98-A88D-0EAD3EBD0AA8@aol.com>

There is also the issue of translation into other languages from English. Lack of diacritics will cause major problems. An example is how the name of the current Indian Prime Minister is rendered in many Tamil publications. He is called ???????? ???? (Nar?ndira M??i)!

Regards,
Palaniappan


> On Sep 5, 2016, at 8:55 PM, Lubin, Tim <LubinT at wlu.edu> wrote:
> 
> Andrew Ollett?s justification of diacritics in dissertations is exactly right.  They are not that hard for nonspecialists to handle, but provide sufficient information for them to keep track of key terms and names.  It is hard to imagine a dissertation dealing closely with Sanskrit-medium philosophy while dispensing with the tools for representing the language unambiguously.  Jeff, send that dissertation back and have the student make it presentable.
> 
> Dominik, I think there are very important reasons for transliterating in discussions of Sanskrit and other Indian texts.  Apart from the dizzying variety of scripts involved in the primary sources, transliteration is a very useful aid for students and other non-specialists.  I recall that even before I learned Sanskrit, I built a repertoire of vocabulary from coursework and reading of secondary sources that allowed my first steps.  Using only Devanagari would please many north Indians, but it would shut out any non-Sanskritist readers in other countries.  And showing word breaks is another useful service.  (A stronger case can of course be made for printing full editions in Devanagari.)
> 
> Anyway, it is just not true that secondary-source publications on citing words in Greek, Russian, Armenian, Hebrew, etc. never transliterate.  It just depend on how narrow an audience is envisioned.
> 
> Best,
> 
> Tim
> 
> Timothy Lubin
> Professor of Religion and Adjunct Professor of Law
> Chair of the Department of Religion
> Washington and Lee University
> Lexington, Virginia 24450
> 
> http://home.wlu.edu/~lubint <http://home.wlu.edu/~lubint> 
> http://wlu.academia.edu/TimothyLubin <http://wlu.academia.edu/TimothyLubin> 
> http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/cf_dev/AbsByAuth.cfm?per_id=930949 <http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/cf_dev/AbsByAuth.cfm?per_id=930949>  
> ?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> From: INDOLOGY <indology-bounces at list.indology.info <mailto:indology-bounces at list.indology.info>> on behalf of Dominik Wujastyk <wujastyk at gmail.com <mailto:wujastyk at gmail.com>>
> Date: Monday, September 5, 2016 at 9:33 PM
> To: Andrew Ollett <andrew.ollett at gmail.com <mailto:andrew.ollett at gmail.com>>
> Cc: "indology at list.indology.info <mailto:indology at list.indology.info>" <indology at list.indology.info <mailto:indology at list.indology.info>>
> Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] Question on Diacritical Marks
> 
> I don't have any solid evidence for this, but I assume that transliteration was invented for Sanskrit because printing Devanagari was difficult.  It isn't difficult any more.  All modern computers can make a decent fist of Devanagari.  So why are we routinely using transliteration at all, any more?  People writing scholarship on Greek or Russian or Armenian don't use Latin script.  Why should we?
> 
> And if you know any other windmills, I'd be glad to tilt at them too. :-)
> 
> Best,
> Dominik
> ?
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe)



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From Palaniappa at aol.com  Tue Sep  6 02:54:05 2016
From: Palaniappa at aol.com (Sudalaimuthu Palaniappan)
Date: Mon, 05 Sep 16 21:54:05 -0500
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Question on Diacritical Marks
In-Reply-To: <mailman.5121.1473130301.13775.indology_list.indology.info@list.indology.info>
Message-ID: <C1C28D1B-ADA2-4152-A240-6794EF437E3C@aol.com>

Oops, I should have written 'Nar?ntira M??i? in transliteration but pronounced as 'Nar?ndira M??i'.

Regards,
Palaniappan


> On Sep 5, 2016, at 9:51 PM, Sudalaimuthu Palaniappan via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info> wrote:
> 
> 
> From: Sudalaimuthu Palaniappan <Palaniappa at aol.com>
> Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] Question on Diacritical Marks
> Date: September 5, 2016 at 9:50:53 PM CDT
> To: "Lubin, Tim" <LubinT at wlu.edu>
> Cc: Dominik Wujastyk <wujastyk at gmail.com>, Andrew Ollett <andrew.ollett at gmail.com>, "indology at list.indology.info" <indology at list.indology.info>
> 
> 
> There is also the issue of translation into other languages from English. Lack of diacritics will cause major problems. An example is how the name of the current Indian Prime Minister is rendered in many Tamil publications. He is called ???????? ???? (Nar?ndira M??i)!
> 
> Regards,
> Palaniappan
> 
> 
>> On Sep 5, 2016, at 8:55 PM, Lubin, Tim <LubinT at wlu.edu <mailto:LubinT at wlu.edu>> wrote:
>> 
>> Andrew Ollett?s justification of diacritics in dissertations is exactly right.  They are not that hard for nonspecialists to handle, but provide sufficient information for them to keep track of key terms and names.  It is hard to imagine a dissertation dealing closely with Sanskrit-medium philosophy while dispensing with the tools for representing the language unambiguously.  Jeff, send that dissertation back and have the student make it presentable.
>> 
>> Dominik, I think there are very important reasons for transliterating in discussions of Sanskrit and other Indian texts.  Apart from the dizzying variety of scripts involved in the primary sources, transliteration is a very useful aid for students and other non-specialists.  I recall that even before I learned Sanskrit, I built a repertoire of vocabulary from coursework and reading of secondary sources that allowed my first steps.  Using only Devanagari would please many north Indians, but it would shut out any non-Sanskritist readers in other countries.  And showing word breaks is another useful service.  (A stronger case can of course be made for printing full editions in Devanagari.)
>> 
>> Anyway, it is just not true that secondary-source publications on citing words in Greek, Russian, Armenian, Hebrew, etc. never transliterate.  It just depend on how narrow an audience is envisioned.
>> 
>> Best,
>> 
>> Tim
>> 
>> Timothy Lubin
>> Professor of Religion and Adjunct Professor of Law
>> Chair of the Department of Religion
>> Washington and Lee University
>> Lexington, Virginia 24450
>> 
>> http://home.wlu.edu/~lubint <http://home.wlu.edu/~lubint> 
>> http://wlu.academia.edu/TimothyLubin <http://wlu.academia.edu/TimothyLubin> 
>> http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/cf_dev/AbsByAuth.cfm?per_id=930949 <http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/cf_dev/AbsByAuth.cfm?per_id=930949>  
>> ?
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> From: INDOLOGY <indology-bounces at list.indology.info <mailto:indology-bounces at list.indology.info>> on behalf of Dominik Wujastyk <wujastyk at gmail.com <mailto:wujastyk at gmail.com>>
>> Date: Monday, September 5, 2016 at 9:33 PM
>> To: Andrew Ollett <andrew.ollett at gmail.com <mailto:andrew.ollett at gmail.com>>
>> Cc: "indology at list.indology.info <mailto:indology at list.indology.info>" <indology at list.indology.info <mailto:indology at list.indology.info>>
>> Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] Question on Diacritical Marks
>> 
>> I don't have any solid evidence for this, but I assume that transliteration was invented for Sanskrit because printing Devanagari was difficult.  It isn't difficult any more.  All modern computers can make a decent fist of Devanagari.  So why are we routinely using transliteration at all, any more?  People writing scholarship on Greek or Russian or Armenian don't use Latin script.  Why should we?
>> 
>> And if you know any other windmills, I'd be glad to tilt at them too. :-)
>> 
>> Best,
>> Dominik
>> ?
>> _______________________________________________
>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info <mailto:INDOLOGY at list.indology.info>
>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee)
>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe)
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe)



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From vbd203 at googlemail.com  Tue Sep  6 07:24:01 2016
From: vbd203 at googlemail.com (victor davella)
Date: Tue, 06 Sep 16 09:24:01 +0200
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Question on Diacritical Marks
In-Reply-To: <CAETY2G1G=JfRSoGKFpQef3wazyrMFK06_R4PYzc84SL50F3=WA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAETY2G3P29Hq3uc38nERFe_8+NSA8YC9A3=e=qvhmBXkHuC1hw@mail.gmail.com>

I mistakenly did not send this to the whole list last night, although it
seems it is  mostly paunarutka at this point.  I would, however, repeat
that there are simply many places where the lack of diacritics obscures the
meaning entirely. For example, *it and i? *in Sanskrit grammatical
terminology.

Regarding the use of the original script, if I were to have my druthers,
all longer quotations would be in the original script. Anyone who can read
the language can read the script, and many of the people who can read it
best, cannot read transliteration or only with difficulty. It's also worth
noting that despite the typographic difficulties, many earlier publications
were printed with Devan?gar? instead of transliteration. Kielhorn, for
example, published many studies (K?ty?yana and Patanjali (sic!), his
translation of the Paribh??endu?ekhara, etc.) with minimal transliteration,
mostly for proper names.  The two scripts blend rather elegantly even in
the same line.

[image: Inline image 2]

All the Best,
Victor

On Mon, Sep 5, 2016 at 8:39 PM, victor davella <vbd203 at googlemail.com>
wrote:

> Dear All,
>
> I never understood the rational behind dropping diacritics, especially for
> Indian languages. For Classical Sanskrit there are but three diacritical
> marks: (the macron (?), the under dot (?), and the acute accent (?)), none
> of which obscures the original shape of a roman letter and all of which are
> used consistently to indicate a specific point of articulation or the
> length of a vowel. The only oddity is vocalic r.  The macron may very well
> be known to many readers already. Other notes on pronunciation are of
> course necessary, lest the reader pronounce candra as kandra, but a simple
> list or table takes care of this within a page.
>
> Usually the author who decides to dispense with them adds a note intended
> to placate those who would wish to have them, and asks for dispensation
> because a more general or non-specialist public will find diacritics
> overwhelming, confusing, distracting or the like. Is this true? If one
> wishes to read a book about Indian philosophy, literature etc., why is it
> assumed  that the reader would NOT want to have information about the
> language's pronunciation and that the reader would be so put off by
> presence of diacritics. If some readers do in fact think in this manner,
> why should they be the ones to determine which information is suppressed?
> In any case, I don't believe that there is actually any harm in having
> them, only benefit.
>
> I am pro-diacritics and have yet to see a convincing reason for leaving
> them out in the transliteration of Sanskrit terms in the realm of scholarly
> publications.
>
> All the Best,
> Victor
>
>
> On Mon, Sep 5, 2016 at 6:13 PM, Jeffery Long via INDOLOGY <
> indology at list.indology.info> wrote:
>
>> _______________________________________________
>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
>> committee)
>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
>> unsubscribe)
>>
>> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
>> From: Jeffery Long <dharmaprof108 at yahoo.com>
>> To: Indology List <indology at list.indology.info>
>> Cc:
>> Date: Mon, 5 Sep 2016 16:12:54 +0000 (UTC)
>> Subject: Question on Diacritical Marks
>> Dear Colleagues,
>>
>> I have a somewhat delicate question on which I would appreciate your
>> candid opinions.
>>
>> Imagine a doctoral dissertation in the field of philosophy.  The
>> primary audience for this dissertation is other philosophers, most of whom
>> are likely to have little or no expertise in the field of Indology.  The
>> dissertation does, however, engage quite extensively with Indic
>> philosophical traditions and texts, and does so in a serious and
>> responsible fashion.  Because the author him or herself is also, however,
>> primarily a philosopher and not an Indologist, s/he does not deploy
>> diacritical marks in presenting Sanskrit terms.
>>
>> How would such a dissertation be regarded by most of you?  Would the
>> non-use of diacritical marks alone disqualify this work from being taken
>> seriously?  (My own reaction: I would personally find it distracting and
>> irritating, but not disqualifying if the scholarship were otherwise sound.)
>>  Your thoughts?
>>
>> With thanks in advance,
>>
>> Jeff
>>
>> Dr. Jeffery D. Long
>> Professor of Religion and Asian Studies
>> Elizabethtown College
>> Elizabethtown, PA
>>
>> https://etown.academia.edu/JefferyLong
>>
>> Series Editor, *Explorations in Indic Traditions: Theological, Ethical,
>> and Philosophical*
>> Lexington Books
>>
>> Consulting Editor, Sutra Journal
>> http://www.sutrajournal.com
>>
>> "One who makes a habit of prayer and meditation will easily overcome all
>> difficulties and remain calm and unruffled in the midst of the trials of
>> life."  (Holy Mother Sarada Devi)
>>
>>
>>
>


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From kauzeya at gmail.com  Tue Sep  6 07:39:15 2016
From: kauzeya at gmail.com (Jonathan Silk)
Date: Tue, 06 Sep 16 09:39:15 +0200
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Question on Diacritical Marks
In-Reply-To: <mailman.5144.1473146690.13775.indology_list.indology.info@list.indology.info>
Message-ID: <CAMGmO4JbDuqNYnyxGTQm2VnthzDxabm+8+sadhNHZiBB3pRQkQ@mail.gmail.com>

I was going to stay out of this, but since I think some of the observations
are not headed in a one might say 'user friendly' direction, I dare to add,
for what it's worth, a few observations.

First, regarding long quotations in nagari (look, you know what that is,
right? no diacritical marks though...), take a look at
https://ia902205.us.archive.org/7/items/systemsofbuddhis029771mbp/systemsofbuddhis029771mbp.pdf

This is a book printed long ago mixing romanization and nagari; I think it
makes a bizzare impression.

Second, the idea of diacritics and/or nagari seems to overlook --although
it has been mentioned, certainly--the idea that there are those who might
be interested to read what we write who nevertheless do not know Sanskrit.
The appeal to grammatical markers like i? seems to me entirely beside the
point. No one is going to be confused by prajna or karuna, and if there is
a reason to do so one can easily add, for instance (fem.) if the point is
that a word is grammatically feminine, etc.
I have great respect for Andrew Ollett but I confess that his comments
about Chinese puzzle me: romanizing Chinese with tone marks does not help
appreciably in looking up a word; if you don't have the Chinese character,
you're almost certainly out of luck (assuming we are not talking about
multi-syllabic words, and even then) except for very common words, and even
then.... The point about Hebrew is also I think instructive: many people
read romanized Hebrew all the time in a very simplified system, without
much trouble at all, and without significant ambiguity.
I think that the discussion needs some focus: we are not talking about a
thesis on Sanskrit grammar, I suppose (I think we all understand that the
initial question was as clear as it could be without breaking confidence),
and certainly one would argue, or I would argue, that a linguist writing
for (non-Sanskrit knowing) linguists should stick to a scientific method,
but for an audience of philosophers, it should be different.
Something we have not mentioned at all in this discussion is the incredible
difficulty all of us have had, and our forebears had, in getting
'philosophers' to take non-Western philosophy seriously. Perhaps a little
consideration for the 'fear factor' of diacritical marks would not be out
of place?

sorry, my 2? seems to have grown, with inflation.... ;)

very best, Jonathan

On Tue, Sep 6, 2016 at 9:24 AM, victor davella via INDOLOGY <
indology at list.indology.info> wrote:

> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
> committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
> unsubscribe)
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: victor davella <vbd203 at googlemail.com>
> To: "indology at list.indology.info" <indology at list.indology.info>
> Cc:
> Date: Tue, 6 Sep 2016 09:24:01 +0200
> Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] Question on Diacritical Marks
> I mistakenly did not send this to the whole list last night, although it
> seems it is  mostly paunarutka at this point.  I would, however, repeat
> that there are simply many places where the lack of diacritics obscures the
> meaning entirely. For example, *it and i? *in Sanskrit grammatical
> terminology.
>
> Regarding the use of the original script, if I were to have my druthers,
> all longer quotations would be in the original script. Anyone who can read
> the language can read the script, and many of the people who can read it
> best, cannot read transliteration or only with difficulty. It's also worth
> noting that despite the typographic difficulties, many earlier publications
> were printed with Devan?gar? instead of transliteration. Kielhorn, for
> example, published many studies (K?ty?yana and Patanjali (sic!), his
> translation of the Paribh??endu?ekhara, etc.) with minimal transliteration,
> mostly for proper names.  The two scripts blend rather elegantly even in
> the same line.
>
> [image: Inline image 2]
>
> All the Best,
> Victor
>
> On Mon, Sep 5, 2016 at 8:39 PM, victor davella <vbd203 at googlemail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Dear All,
>>
>> I never understood the rational behind dropping diacritics, especially
>> for Indian languages. For Classical Sanskrit there are but three
>> diacritical marks: (the macron (?), the under dot (?), and the acute accent
>> (?)), none of which obscures the original shape of a roman letter and all
>> of which are used consistently to indicate a specific point of articulation
>> or the length of a vowel. The only oddity is vocalic r.  The macron may
>> very well be known to many readers already. Other notes on pronunciation
>> are of course necessary, lest the reader pronounce candra as kandra, but a
>> simple list or table takes care of this within a page.
>>
>> Usually the author who decides to dispense with them adds a note intended
>> to placate those who would wish to have them, and asks for dispensation
>> because a more general or non-specialist public will find diacritics
>> overwhelming, confusing, distracting or the like. Is this true? If one
>> wishes to read a book about Indian philosophy, literature etc., why is it
>> assumed  that the reader would NOT want to have information about the
>> language's pronunciation and that the reader would be so put off by
>> presence of diacritics. If some readers do in fact think in this manner,
>> why should they be the ones to determine which information is suppressed?
>> In any case, I don't believe that there is actually any harm in having
>> them, only benefit.
>>
>> I am pro-diacritics and have yet to see a convincing reason for leaving
>> them out in the transliteration of Sanskrit terms in the realm of scholarly
>> publications.
>>
>> All the Best,
>> Victor
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Sep 5, 2016 at 6:13 PM, Jeffery Long via INDOLOGY <
>> indology at list.indology.info> wrote:
>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
>>> committee)
>>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options
>>> or unsubscribe)
>>>
>>> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
>>> From: Jeffery Long <dharmaprof108 at yahoo.com>
>>> To: Indology List <indology at list.indology.info>
>>> Cc:
>>> Date: Mon, 5 Sep 2016 16:12:54 +0000 (UTC)
>>> Subject: Question on Diacritical Marks
>>> Dear Colleagues,
>>>
>>> I have a somewhat delicate question on which I would appreciate your
>>> candid opinions.
>>>
>>> Imagine a doctoral dissertation in the field of philosophy.  The
>>> primary audience for this dissertation is other philosophers, most of whom
>>> are likely to have little or no expertise in the field of Indology.  The
>>> dissertation does, however, engage quite extensively with Indic
>>> philosophical traditions and texts, and does so in a serious and
>>> responsible fashion.  Because the author him or herself is also, however,
>>> primarily a philosopher and not an Indologist, s/he does not deploy
>>> diacritical marks in presenting Sanskrit terms.
>>>
>>> How would such a dissertation be regarded by most of you?  Would the
>>> non-use of diacritical marks alone disqualify this work from being taken
>>> seriously?  (My own reaction: I would personally find it distracting and
>>> irritating, but not disqualifying if the scholarship were otherwise sound.)
>>>  Your thoughts?
>>>
>>> With thanks in advance,
>>>
>>> Jeff
>>>
>>> Dr. Jeffery D. Long
>>> Professor of Religion and Asian Studies
>>> Elizabethtown College
>>> Elizabethtown, PA
>>>
>>> https://etown.academia.edu/JefferyLong
>>>
>>> Series Editor, *Explorations in Indic Traditions: Theological, Ethical,
>>> and Philosophical*
>>> Lexington Books
>>>
>>> Consulting Editor, Sutra Journal
>>> http://www.sutrajournal.com
>>>
>>> "One who makes a habit of prayer and meditation will easily overcome all
>>> difficulties and remain calm and unruffled in the midst of the trials of
>>> life."  (Holy Mother Sarada Devi)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>
>


-- 
J. Silk
Leiden University
Leiden University Institute for Area Studies, LIAS
Matthias de Vrieshof 3, Room 0.05b
2311 BZ Leiden
The Netherlands

copies of my publications may be found at
http://www.buddhismandsocialjustice.com/silk_publications.html


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From mkapstei at uchicago.edu  Tue Sep  6 07:40:53 2016
From: mkapstei at uchicago.edu (Matthew Kapstein)
Date: Tue, 06 Sep 16 07:40:53 +0000
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Question on Diacritical Marks
In-Reply-To: <mailman.5144.1473146690.13775.indology_list.indology.info@list.indology.info>
Message-ID: <82C3E42590D939418C74DD76B97DDED047BBAD2E@xm-mbx-06-prod>

Just a small note:

The reference to Chinese earlier in this thread seems to have been mistaken. Tonal accents are
not used to facilitate character recognition. The syllable 'ji' in Pinyin transcription, for instance, may
receive four tonal accents, but even each tonal variation corresponds to many different Chinese
logographs ('characters'). This is why Sinologists prefer to include the actual characters in their
work, either integrated with the text or in a final glossary. But obviously to insist on only 'original
script' would render Sinological scholarship totally inaccessible to those outside the area. Pinyin (or
Wade-Giles or other) transcriptions, without tonal accents, at least provide outsiders with an 
approximation. I think something similar holds in the case of Indic phonology, though in this
case the problem is less complicated than in Chinese.

Matthew Kapstein
Directeur d'?tudes,
Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes

Numata Visiting Professor of Buddhist Studies,
The University of Chicago

_________




From mkapstei at uchicago.edu  Tue Sep  6 07:58:26 2016
From: mkapstei at uchicago.edu (Matthew Kapstein)
Date: Tue, 06 Sep 16 07:58:26 +0000
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Question on Diacritical Marks
In-Reply-To: <CAMGmO4JbDuqNYnyxGTQm2VnthzDxabm+8+sadhNHZiBB3pRQkQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <82C3E42590D939418C74DD76B97DDED047BBAD42@xm-mbx-06-prod>

"First, regarding long quotations in nagari (look, you know what that is, right? no diacritical marks though...), take a look at https://ia902205.us.archive.org/7/items/systemsofbuddhis029771mbp/systemsofbuddhis029771mbp.pdf
This is a book printed long ago mixing romanization and nagari; I think it makes a bizzare impression."

Dear Jonathan and all,

This mix is quite common in Kolkata publications of the period. I don't think it bizarre at all,
at least no more bizarre than texts in Classics that mix Greek and Latin scripts, or in Judaic
Studies that mix Hebrew and Latin, etc. What makes it seem bizarre is just distance
from a milieu in which the particular mix in question is current. I deal all the time now
with published works mixing Tibetan and Chinese - there's nothing odd about it unless you
are not quite familiar with the writing systems in question.

Someone earlier in this thread suggested that romanization was used perhaps because printing
in original scripts was difficult. But 18th and 19th c. printeries relished multiple scripts. See, e.g.,
Kowalewski's 1844 Mongol dictionary published in Kazan, where we find Mongol, Tibetan, Cyrillic
and Roman all jostling with one another. In modern printing history we can probably trace this
back to early 16th c. Venice, where printing was common in Greek, Armenian, Hebrew and Roman
scripts, and even an Arabic font was created. I suspect that the use of romanization had more
to do with the needs of pedagogy and comparative philology than it did with ease of printing.

best,
Matthew

Matthew Kapstein
Directeur d'?tudes,
Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes

Numata Visiting Professor of Buddhist Studies,
The University of Chicago
________________________________



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From pf8 at soas.ac.uk  Tue Sep  6 09:35:24 2016
From: pf8 at soas.ac.uk (Peter Flugel)
Date: Tue, 06 Sep 16 10:35:24 +0100
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Professor Bansidhar Bhatt (1929-2016)
Message-ID: <CAF+JJr=L9fe8=hyTAfmhxOtZYAP0JGFkyrPDn1s5KEixFge1Fw@mail.gmail.com>

It is very sad to report that Professor Bansidhar Bhatt (1929-2016), one of
the stalwarts of Jaina-Studies in the last forty years, has passed away on
4 September 2016. Professor Bhatt was awarded the degree of Dr. Phil. from
the Free University of Berlin in 1977 on The Canonical Nik?epa: Studies in
Jaina Dialectics (Leiden 1978). He was Professor of Indology at Panjab
University in Patiala 1977-1985 (Mah?v?ra Chair for Jaina Studies) and from
1985 until his retirement at the University of M?nster in Germany.
Professor Bhatt is renowned for his outstanding work on technical Jaina
philosophy. Most of his ground-breaking articles have been re-published by
the Sharadaben Chimmanbhai Educational Research Centre in Ahmedabad in
2005. Despite his deteriorating health, Professor Bhatt was able to
complete his last book on the Jina P?r?van?tha this year.

-- 
Dr Peter Fl?gel
Chair, Centre of Jaina Studies
Department of Religions and Philosophies
Faculty of Arts and Humanities
School of Oriental and African Studies
University of London
Thornhaugh Street
Russell Square
London WC1H OXG

Tel.: (+44-20) 7898 4776
E-mail: pf8 at soas.ac.uk
http://www.soas.ac.uk/jainastudies


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From soni at staff.uni-marburg.de  Tue Sep  6 10:13:15 2016
From: soni at staff.uni-marburg.de (soni at staff.uni-marburg.de)
Date: Tue, 06 Sep 16 12:13:15 +0200
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Professor Bansidhar Bhatt (1929-2016)
In-Reply-To: <CAF+JJr=L9fe8=hyTAfmhxOtZYAP0JGFkyrPDn1s5KEixFge1Fw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20160906121315.Horde.yE-9vALHGuUO-9MmV9dx-7c@home.staff.uni-marburg.de>

It is very sad news indeed to loose such a renowned scholar of  
Jainism, and such a gentleman at that too.
His valuable work will continue to be appreciated.
With profound sadness,
Jay Soni


----- Message from Peter Flugel <pf8 at soas.ac.uk> ---------
    Date: Tue, 6 Sep 2016 10:35:24 +0100
    From: Peter Flugel <pf8 at soas.ac.uk>
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Professor Bansidhar Bhatt (1929-2016)
      To: Indology Mailing List <Indology at list.indology.info>


> It is very sad to report that Professor Bansidhar Bhatt (1929-2016), one of
> the stalwarts of Jaina-Studies in the last forty years, has passed away on
> 4 September 2016. Professor Bhatt was awarded the degree of Dr. Phil. from
> the Free University of Berlin in 1977 on The Canonical Nik?epa: Studies in
> Jaina Dialectics (Leiden 1978). He was Professor of Indology at Panjab
> University in Patiala 1977-1985 (Mah?v?ra Chair for Jaina Studies) and from
> 1985 until his retirement at the University of M?nster in Germany.
> Professor Bhatt is renowned for his outstanding work on technical Jaina
> philosophy. Most of his ground-breaking articles have been re-published by
> the Sharadaben Chimmanbhai Educational Research Centre in Ahmedabad in
> 2005. Despite his deteriorating health, Professor Bhatt was able to
> complete his last book on the Jina P?r?van?tha this year.
>
> --
> Dr Peter Fl?gel
> Chair, Centre of Jaina Studies
> Department of Religions and Philosophies
> Faculty of Arts and Humanities
> School of Oriental and African Studies
> University of London
> Thornhaugh Street
> Russell Square
> London WC1H OXG
>
> Tel.: (+44-20) 7898 4776
> E-mail: pf8 at soas.ac.uk
> http://www.soas.ac.uk/jainastudies


----- End message from Peter Flugel <pf8 at soas.ac.uk> -----



--






From jpo at austin.utexas.edu  Tue Sep  6 11:30:46 2016
From: jpo at austin.utexas.edu (Olivelle, J P)
Date: Tue, 06 Sep 16 11:30:46 +0000
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Question on Diacritical Marks
In-Reply-To: <CAKdt-Cf1SNwnN-_UdVzV6xeY8stanafx=hBYn23NiZaw8sJ5cA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <8F1F85A0-F1B0-4916-BA78-5D2854701626@austin.utexas.edu>

Like Jonathan, I also thought I would keep out of this issue, because I did not have anything new to contribute. However, Dominik?s message made me change my mind. We may think today that Devan?gar? is the ?script? of Sanskrit, but historically it never was, unlike Latin, Greek, Chinese, or Japanese. As anyone who has worked on Sanskrit manuscripts knows, Sanskrit texts were written in regional scripts: Grantha, Telugu, Malayalam, Newari, ??rad?, etc. So there is no exact parallel between Sanskrit and other languages.

Given that Latin script with diacritics parallels exactly the Sanskrit alphabet, the issues raised with regard to Chinese do not arise. My own rule of thumb is that if it is simply a word or sentence within an English article or book, then I use the Latin script, but for texts in Sanskrit (as now the rule with the Murthy Library) I use Devan?gar?. Murthy also has come up with a possible middle ground: putting names of people and places without diacritics, while using them for other Sanskrit terms. But I guess we will never come up with a solution that will satisfy all.

Patrick



On Sep 5, 2016, at 8:33 PM, Dominik Wujastyk <wujastyk at gmail.com<mailto:wujastyk at gmail.com>> wrote:

I don't have any solid evidence for this, but I assume that transliteration was invented for Sanskrit because printing Devanagari was difficult.  It isn't difficult any more.  All modern computers can make a decent fist of Devanagari.  So why are we routinely using transliteration at all, any more?  People writing scholarship on Greek or Russian or Armenian don't use Latin script.  Why should we?

And if you know any other windmills, I'd be glad to tilt at them too. :-)

Best,
Dominik
?
_______________________________________________
INDOLOGY mailing list
INDOLOGY at list.indology.info<mailto:INDOLOGY at list.indology.info>
indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee)
http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe)



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From arlogriffiths at hotmail.com  Tue Sep  6 13:44:09 2016
From: arlogriffiths at hotmail.com (Arlo Griffiths)
Date: Tue, 06 Sep 16 13:44:09 +0000
Subject: =?utf-8?Q?[INDOLOGY]_Bulletin_de_l=E2=80=99=C3=89cole_fran=C3=A7aise_d=E2=80=99Extr=C3=AAme-Orient_101_(2015)?=
Message-ID: <HE1PR0801MB1772011FE74686A8340D0E61A5F90@HE1PR0801MB1772.eurprd08.prod.outlook.com>

See the table of contents here:


<http://us7.campaign-archive2.com/?u=2b0dc22042664146d682fdaf7&id=3dd00a9bc3&e=acf4343ca8>


Arlo Griffiths

EFEO


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From rpg at berkeley.edu  Tue Sep  6 17:46:00 2016
From: rpg at berkeley.edu (Robert Goldman)
Date: Tue, 06 Sep 16 10:46:00 -0700
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Question on Diacritical Marks
In-Reply-To: <8F1F85A0-F1B0-4916-BA78-5D2854701626@austin.utexas.edu>
Message-ID: <A8E9C7C1-51B5-49B0-BA7C-21465D301C52@berkeley.edu>

One might also keep in mind the large number of academic scholars in a number of areas such as Religious Studies, Comparative Literature, Anthropology, Philosophy, History of Science and many more who depend on the monographs, articles and translations of Indologists. Although they may well want to read translations of and  studies on the Upani?ads, the G?t?, K?lid?sa, the R?m?ya?a etc., most would probably not want to have to learn devan?gar?  or any other Indic script to do so.
Dr. R. P.  Goldman
Catherine and William L. Magistretti Distinguished Professor in South and Southeast Asian Studies
Department of South and Southeast Asian Studies MC # 2540
The University of California at Berkeley
Berkeley, CA 94720-2540
Tel: 510-642-4089
Fax: 510-642-2409



> On Sep 6, 2016, at 4:30 AM, Olivelle, J P <jpo at austin.utexas.edu> wrote:
> 
> Like Jonathan, I also thought I would keep out of this issue, because I did not have anything new to contribute. However, Dominik?s message made me change my mind. We may think today that Devan?gar? is the ?script? of Sanskrit, but historically it never was, unlike Latin, Greek, Chinese, or Japanese. As anyone who has worked on Sanskrit manuscripts knows, Sanskrit texts were written in regional scripts: Grantha, Telugu, Malayalam, Newari, ??rad?, etc. So there is no exact parallel between Sanskrit and other languages. 
> 
> Given that Latin script with diacritics parallels exactly the Sanskrit alphabet, the issues raised with regard to Chinese do not arise. My own rule of thumb is that if it is simply a word or sentence within an English article or book, then I use the Latin script, but for texts in Sanskrit (as now the rule with the Murthy Library) I use Devan?gar?. Murthy also has come up with a possible middle ground: putting names of people and places without diacritics, while using them for other Sanskrit terms. But I guess we will never come up with a solution that will satisfy all. 
> 
> Patrick
> 
> 
> 
>> On Sep 5, 2016, at 8:33 PM, Dominik Wujastyk <wujastyk at gmail.com <mailto:wujastyk at gmail.com>> wrote:
>> 
>> I don't have any solid evidence for this, but I assume that transliteration was invented for Sanskrit because printing Devanagari was difficult.  It isn't difficult any more.  All modern computers can make a decent fist of Devanagari.  So why are we routinely using transliteration at all, any more?  People writing scholarship on Greek or Russian or Armenian don't use Latin script.  Why should we?
>> 
>> And if you know any other windmills, I'd be glad to tilt at them too. :-)
>> 
>> Best,
>> Dominik
>> ?
>> _______________________________________________
>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info <mailto:INDOLOGY at list.indology.info>
>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee)
>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe)
> 
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee)
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From lauren.bausch at drbu.org  Tue Sep  6 23:43:09 2016
From: lauren.bausch at drbu.org (Lauren Bausch)
Date: Tue, 06 Sep 16 16:43:09 -0700
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Conference: Self, Sacrifice, and Cosmos: Late Vedic Thought, Ritual, and Philosophy
Message-ID: <CANz3S9tr7UMWjrOfJzX4Hs2t36iJ4gdeKzvOVEyuEe_XPp89PQ@mail.gmail.com>

The Catherine and William L. Magistretti Chair in South and Southeast Asian
Studies at UC Berkeley, Dharma Realm Buddhist University, the Townsend
Center for the Humanities, the Institute for South Asian Studies, the
Indian Council for Cultural Relations, and the Consulate General of India,
San Francisco invite you to:


*Self, Sacrifice, and Cosmos: Late Vedic Thought, Ritual, and Philosophy*


*A conference
<http://events.berkeley.edu/index.php/calendar/sn/csas.html?event_ID=100984&date=2016-09-24&filter=Target/Open%20To%20Audiences&filtersel=>
in honor of Dr. Ganesh Umakant Thite?s contribution to Vedic Studies*

*Saturday, September 24, 2016*

*Geballe Room, 220 Stephens Hall, UC Berkeley*
*8:30 am - 5 pm*


8:30 introductory remarks by Robert Goldman

8:50 Lauren Bausch (Dharma Realm Buddhist University): *On Being Firmly
Established in the Br?hma?as and ?ra?yakas*

9:25 Caley Smith (Harvard University): *A Vedic Mise En Abyme?*

10:00 Joanna Jurewicz (University of Warsaw): *The Consistency of Vedic
Argument*

10:35 break

10:50 Stephanie Jamison (University of California, Los Angeles): *Vedic
Ritual: The Sacralization of the Mundane and the Domestication of the
Sacred*

11:25 Jan Houben (?cole Pratique des Hautes ?tudes, Paris): *Ecology of
Ritual Innovation in Ancient India: Some textual evidence*

12:00 lunch

1:15 Joel Brereton (University of Texas at Austin): *The Heavenly Sea in
Early and Middle Vedic Literature*

1:50 Jarrod Whitaker (Wake Forest University): *Sexuality, Parentage, and
Violence in Early Vedic Poetry*

2:25 break

2:40 Steven Lindquist (Southern Methodist University): *Var?a in Late Vedic
Narrative*

3:15 Robert Goldman (UC Berkeley): *Creating Context: ?di?a?kar?c?rya?s
Explication of Some ?khy?yik?-s of the Ch?ndogyopani?ad*

3:50 break
4:00 Keynote Address by G.U. Thite  (University of Pune): *The Role of
Br?hma?a Texts in the Development of Vedic Ritual*

The conference is free and open to the public.

All good wishes,
Lauren Bausch
Assistant Professor
Dharma Realm Buddhist University


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From vitus.angermeier at univie.ac.at  Wed Sep  7 07:45:05 2016
From: vitus.angermeier at univie.ac.at (Vitus Angermeier)
Date: Wed, 07 Sep 16 09:45:05 +0200
Subject: [INDOLOGY] pAnIya and buDana
In-Reply-To: <8e2e483a-982f-9de7-6ee2-e2ddfe86aef4@pbhome.se>
Message-ID: <8a9f7312-b1af-4f8f-e9df-1903fa490161@univie.ac.at>

I came across one occurrence, where p?n?ya denotes water in which plants 
grow: ?alha?a (12th cent.) - concerning Su?rutasa?hit? 1.45.17 - glosses 
par?? with p?n?yap???haj? (a plant originating from the water surface). 
Of course, this is not very early. A search with the Digital Corpus of 
Sanskrit might bring about more occurrences.


Vitus Angermeier

Am 03.09.2016 um 21:09 schrieb Martin Gansten:
> Many thanks to Madhav Deshpande and Walter Slaje for the additional
> information about bu?/bru?/etc. The text from which my quotation was
> taken most probably originated in or near present-day Gujarat, so the
> Marathi vernacular may indeed be relevant.
>
> I'm still wondering about the earliest use of p?n?ya to denote water to
> swim (or drown) in, as opposed to drinking.
>
> Martin Gansten
>
>

-- 
Institut f?r S?dasien-, Tibet- und Buddhismuskunde
Universit?t Wien
Spitalgasse 2-4/2.1
A-1090 Wien





From caf57 at cam.ac.uk  Wed Sep  7 10:02:57 2016
From: caf57 at cam.ac.uk (C.A. Formigatti)
Date: Wed, 07 Sep 16 11:02:57 +0100
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Earliest mention of lemon in Sanskrit sources
In-Reply-To: <mailman.48.1473177621.7100.indology_list.indology.info@list.indology.info>
Message-ID: <541be8ae0dd5ac94f9278df91df81433@cam.ac.uk>

Dear Colleagues,

I am forwarding a request by a colleague expert of Persian and Arabic 
literature. I would be very grateful for your help.


''I have heard that the earliest mention of the Lemon might be in the 
Charaka Samhita or another Ayurvedic text. Is this true? Do you have any 
references to this?

The first mention in Arabic seems to be mid-9th-century.

I would much appreciate any help you could give.''

Best wishes,

Camillo Formigatti






From mmdesh at umich.edu  Wed Sep  7 12:21:38 2016
From: mmdesh at umich.edu (Madhav Deshpande)
Date: Wed, 07 Sep 16 08:21:38 -0400
Subject: [INDOLOGY] pAnIya and buDana
In-Reply-To: <8a9f7312-b1af-4f8f-e9df-1903fa490161@univie.ac.at>
Message-ID: <CAB3-dzdY6qgLANWNA_+-zJ8RXbJt5ey=S6Li_2bLtNnKxfz6dg@mail.gmail.com>

Considering the generalized use of p?n? in Hindi and p??? in Marathi for
all water, not just drinking water, it is conceivable that such a semantic
development had also occurred in the medieval Sanskrit usage.  In Marathi,
we say "nad?l? p??? ?le" (lit: water has come to the river) to describe the
situation of a flood.  It is the same word for water used for bathing or
washing.

Madhav Deshpande

On Wed, Sep 7, 2016 at 3:45 AM, Vitus Angermeier <
vitus.angermeier at univie.ac.at> wrote:

> I came across one occurrence, where p?n?ya denotes water in which plants
> grow: ?alha?a (12th cent.) - concerning Su?rutasa?hit? 1.45.17 - glosses
> par?? with p?n?yap???haj? (a plant originating from the water surface). Of
> course, this is not very early. A search with the Digital Corpus of
> Sanskrit might bring about more occurrences.
>
>
> Vitus Angermeier
>
> Am 03.09.2016 um 21:09 schrieb Martin Gansten:
>
>> Many thanks to Madhav Deshpande and Walter Slaje for the additional
>> information about bu?/bru?/etc. The text from which my quotation was
>> taken most probably originated in or near present-day Gujarat, so the
>> Marathi vernacular may indeed be relevant.
>>
>> I'm still wondering about the earliest use of p?n?ya to denote water to
>> swim (or drown) in, as opposed to drinking.
>>
>> Martin Gansten
>>
>>
>>
> --
> Institut f?r S?dasien-, Tibet- und Buddhismuskunde
> Universit?t Wien
> Spitalgasse 2-4/2.1
> A-1090 Wien
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
> committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
> unsubscribe)
>


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From dharmaprof108 at yahoo.com  Wed Sep  7 14:44:03 2016
From: dharmaprof108 at yahoo.com (Jeffery Long)
Date: Wed, 07 Sep 16 14:44:03 +0000
Subject: Question on Diacritical Marks
In-Reply-To: <1067904621.1094999.1473259443412.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1067904621.1094999.1473259443412@mail.yahoo.com>

Dear Adheesh,
????? ??? ??, ???? ??! ???????!
Jeff?Dr. Jeffery D. Long
Professor of Religion and Asian Studies
Elizabethtown CollegeElizabethtown, PA
https://etown.academia.edu/JefferyLong
Series Editor,?Explorations in Indic Traditions: Theological, Ethical, and PhilosophicalLexington Books
Consulting Editor,?Sutra Journalhttp://www.sutrajournal.com

"One who makes a habit of prayer and meditation will easily overcome all difficulties and remain calm and unruffled in the midst of the trials of life." ?(Holy Mother Sarada Devi)
Dear Jeffery,

In general, regardless of audience, I would feel that it?s acceptable, and sometimes even preferable to do away with diacritic marks and go with commonly observable Roman-script spellings for Sanskrit terms, or Tamil or Arabic or any language X terms for that matter, if these are isolated terms within what is otherwise a complete English sentence (or German or French or any language Y sentence). If you make mistakes in diacritics, for example, it can lead to serious errors, say if you were to make claims about R?ma?s b?la instead of his bala.?

But if one encounters an entire phrase, sentence, or passage that is without diacritics, then trying to read it becomes a total train wreck.?

Just consider what would happen the other way around??

??? ?? ????? ????-???? ????? ???? ??? ??-?? ?????? ??????, ?? ??? ??? ??? ?? ?
?????, ?? ?? ??? ?? ??? ? ??? ???????? ???? ???, ?? ???? ??? ? ??? ?????, ?? ??? ?????????? ?? ?????? ??

How?s that for candid??
cheers,
Adheesh


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From dharmaprof108 at yahoo.com  Wed Sep  7 14:49:17 2016
From: dharmaprof108 at yahoo.com (Jeffery Long)
Date: Wed, 07 Sep 16 14:49:17 +0000
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Question on Diacritical Marks
In-Reply-To: <A8E9C7C1-51B5-49B0-BA7C-21465D301C52@berkeley.edu>
Message-ID: <835902673.1151573.1473259757630@mail.yahoo.com>

Dear Colleagues,
I thank all of you who have responded, both privately and on the listserv, to my query. ?The range of opinion has varied from "Why?stop at diacritics? ?Why not ?????????" to "Diacritics not really needed in non-specialist contexts." ?The weight of the opinion, though, has been quite clearly and strongly in the direction of "Diacritics needed in a PhD dissertation that engages extensively with Indic materials, even if the primary thesis and audience are not specifically Indological." ?This is now my inclination as well.
You have all helped me with a?question with which I was struggling, for which you have my gratitude.
All the best,Jeff?Dr. Jeffery D. Long
Professor of Religion and Asian Studies
Elizabethtown CollegeElizabethtown, PA
https://etown.academia.edu/JefferyLong
Series Editor,?Explorations in Indic Traditions: Theological, Ethical, and PhilosophicalLexington Books
Consulting Editor,?Sutra Journalhttp://www.sutrajournal.com

"One who makes a habit of prayer and meditation will easily overcome all difficulties and remain calm and unruffled in the midst of the trials of life." ?(Holy Mother Sarada Devi)
 

    On Tuesday, September 6, 2016 1:46 PM, Robert Goldman <rpg at berkeley.edu> wrote:
 

 One might also keep in mind the large number of academic scholars in a number of areas such as Religious Studies, Comparative Literature, Anthropology, Philosophy, History of Science and many more who depend on the monographs, articles and translations of Indologists. Although they may well want to read translations of and ?studies on the Upani?ads, the?G?t?, K?lid?sa, the R?m?ya?a etc., most would probably not want to have to learn devan?gar? ?or any other Indic script to do so.
Dr. R. P. ?Goldman
Catherine and William L. Magistretti?Distinguished Professor in South and Southeast?Asian Studies
Department of South and Southeast Asian?Studies MC # 2540
The University of California at Berkeley
Berkeley, CA 94720-2540
Tel: 510-642-4089
Fax: 510-642-2409



On Sep 6, 2016, at 4:30 AM, Olivelle, J P <jpo at austin.utexas.edu> wrote:

Like Jonathan, I also thought I would keep out of this issue, because I did not have anything new to contribute. However, Dominik?s message made me change my mind. We may think today that Devan?gar? is the ?script? of Sanskrit, but historically it never was, unlike Latin, Greek, Chinese, or Japanese. As anyone who has worked on Sanskrit manuscripts knows, Sanskrit texts were written in regional scripts: Grantha, Telugu, Malayalam, Newari, ??rad?, etc. So there is no exact parallel between Sanskrit and other languages.?
Given that Latin script with diacritics parallels exactly the Sanskrit alphabet, the issues raised with regard to Chinese do not arise. My own rule of thumb is that if it is simply a word or sentence within an English article or book, then I use the Latin script, but for texts in Sanskrit (as now the rule with the Murthy Library) I use Devan?gar?. Murthy also has come up with a possible middle ground: putting names of people and places without diacritics, while using them for other Sanskrit terms. But I guess we will never come up with a solution that will satisfy all.?
Patrick



On Sep 5, 2016, at 8:33 PM, Dominik Wujastyk <wujastyk at gmail.com> wrote:
I don't have any solid evidence for this, but I assume that transliteration was invented for Sanskrit because printing Devanagari was difficult.? It isn't difficult any more.? All modern computers can make a decent fist of Devanagari.? So why are we routinely using transliteration at all, any more?? People writing scholarship on Greek or Russian or Armenian don't use Latin script.? Why should we?
And if you know any other windmills, I'd be glad to tilt at them too. :-)
Best,Dominik?_______________________________________________
INDOLOGY mailing list
INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee)
http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe)

_______________________________________________
INDOLOGY mailing list
INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee)
http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe)

_______________________________________________
INDOLOGY mailing list
INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee)
http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe)

   


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From john.darumadera at gmail.com  Wed Sep  7 18:44:02 2016
From: john.darumadera at gmail.com (John Huntington)
Date: Wed, 07 Sep 16 14:44:02 -0400
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Question on Diacritical Marks
In-Reply-To: <A8E9C7C1-51B5-49B0-BA7C-21465D301C52@berkeley.edu>
Message-ID: <CAGbyd21aODdcEoFORMDHnRrt6gNdj43CYV0j_2p=nDCRTvDTpg@mail.gmail.com>

I completely agree with Bob Goldman. There are many scholars who depend on
philologists and linguists to read and interpret texts to provide them with
the information in the text. Often they have developed other academic
skills that are of value to the academic community and by combining their
work with well translated texts can certainly lead to new insights.

John

On Tue, Sep 6, 2016 at 1:46 PM, Robert Goldman <rpg at berkeley.edu> wrote:

> One might also keep in mind the large number of academic scholars in a
> number of areas such as Religious Studies, Comparative Literature,
> Anthropology, Philosophy, History of Science and many more who depend on
> the monographs, articles and translations of Indologists. Although they may
> well want to read translations of and  studies on the *Upani?ads*, the
> *G?t?*, K?lid?sa, the *R?m?ya?a* etc., most would probably not want to
> have to learn *devan?gar?*  or any other Indic script to do so.
> Dr. R. P.  Goldman
> Catherine and William L. Magistretti Distinguished Professor in South and
> Southeast Asian Studies
> Department of South and Southeast Asian Studies MC # 2540
> The University of California at Berkeley
> Berkeley, CA 94720-2540
> Tel: 510-642-4089
> Fax: 510-642-2409
>
>
>
> On Sep 6, 2016, at 4:30 AM, Olivelle, J P <jpo at austin.utexas.edu> wrote:
>
> Like Jonathan, I also thought I would keep out of this issue, because I
> did not have anything new to contribute. However, Dominik?s message made me
> change my mind. We may think today that Devan?gar? is the ?script? of
> Sanskrit, but historically it never was, unlike Latin, Greek, Chinese, or
> Japanese. As anyone who has worked on Sanskrit manuscripts knows, Sanskrit
> texts were written in regional scripts: Grantha, Telugu, Malayalam, Newari,
> ??rad?, etc. So there is no exact parallel between Sanskrit and other
> languages.
>
> Given that Latin script with diacritics parallels exactly the Sanskrit
> alphabet, the issues raised with regard to Chinese do not arise. My own
> rule of thumb is that if it is simply a word or sentence within an English
> article or book, then I use the Latin script, but for texts in Sanskrit (as
> now the rule with the Murthy Library) I use Devan?gar?. Murthy also has
> come up with a possible middle ground: putting names of people and places
> without diacritics, while using them for other Sanskrit terms. But I guess
> we will never come up with a solution that will satisfy all.
>
> Patrick
>
>
>
> On Sep 5, 2016, at 8:33 PM, Dominik Wujastyk <wujastyk at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> I don't have any solid evidence for this, but I assume that
> transliteration was invented for Sanskrit because printing Devanagari was
> difficult.  It isn't difficult any more.  All modern computers can make a
> decent fist of Devanagari.  So why are we routinely using transliteration
> at all, any more?  People writing scholarship on Greek or Russian or
> Armenian don't use Latin script.  Why should we?
>
> And if you know any other windmills, I'd be glad to tilt at them too. :-)
>
> Best,
> Dominik
> ?
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
> committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
> unsubscribe)
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
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> committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
> unsubscribe)
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
> committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
> unsubscribe)
>


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From christoph.emmrich at utoronto.ca  Thu Sep  8 16:10:55 2016
From: christoph.emmrich at utoronto.ca (Christoph Emmrich)
Date: Thu, 08 Sep 16 16:10:55 +0000
Subject: [INDOLOGY] XVIIIth IABS Congress, Toronto, 2017, paper submission deadline reminder
Message-ID: <A929715192348C4380B851AA5A08ACBA5F258128@ArborExMBx2P.UTORARBOR.UTORAD.Utoronto.ca>

Dear Colleagues,


This is a quick and brief reminder meant for all those who may like to be reminded of the date and who are still considering to present at the XVIIIth IABS Congress in Toronto, August 20-25, 2017. The deadline for individual paper submissions is October 1, 2016, and hence not too far away. For context, I am recirculating the Second Circular: please find it pasted below.


Looking forward to hearing from you, with warm regards,
Christoph Emmrich


----

XVIIIth Congress of the International Association of Buddhist Studies (IABS): Second Circular


Dear Colleagues, Dear Friends:


Preparations are well underway for the XVIIIth Congress of the International Association of Buddhist Studies (IABS), which takes place at the University of Toronto, August 20th to the 25th, 2017. On behalf of the IABS, my university, and the conference?s Planning Committee, I kindly send you this Second Circular to share the panels that will be presented, to invite individual papers for the panels and sections here proposed, and to encourage all IABS members and supporters to attend the Congress in Toronto.


General Information

This Congress is a unique opportunity for Buddhist Studies scholars from around the world to convene and celebrate the excellence of our field. As Chair of the Planning Committee, I enthusiastically encourage you to circulate this Second Circular to colleagues, students, on message boards, electronic forums and on social media. This Second Circular is sent to all current IABS members, those who have filled out the electronic ?Mailing List? request form on the website, and to those who wrote me directly. We strive to convene as inclusive a Congress as possible, and welcome the attendance of a diverse range of scholars, students and supporters.


I would once again kindly remind everyone that they must be a fully paid member of IABS for the year 2017 in order to attend the event, deliver a paper, or sit on a panel in Toronto. To be a member of the association in 2017, those wishing to participate in the Congress will need to pay their IABS dues by December 31, 2016. All participants will also need to pay a Congress registration fee used to help us cover the cost of hosting the event, stipulated below. IABS membership can be secured through the online form at the IABS website: www.iabsinfo.net<http://www.iabsinfo.net>. Kindly keep in mind that on registration, to complete the process aspiring participants will be required to provide proof of payment of their IABS dues for 2017. Initial enquiries about eligibility should be sent to the association?s Secretary General, Dr. Ulrich Pagel (up1 at soas.ac.uk<mailto:up1 at soas.ac.uk>).

Submission of panel proposals for the Congress has already closed, and I, along with the Planning Committee, would like to generously thank all those who took time to submit their panel proposals. Given the high volume of submissions?an IABS record?not every panel was accepted, though all were of superior quality and testify to the wide-ranging excellence of our field.


Submission of individual paper abstracts for both panels and sections (each of which is outlined below) opens May 15th, 2016, and closes October 1st, 2016. Please note that individual paper abstracts cannot be accepted after October 1st, 2016, so be sure to take note of the deadline.


Congress registration opens October 1st, 2016, and closes just prior to the start of the proceedings, August 18th, 2017. Registration any time between these dates is permitted. Please see below for further details on how to register, as well as to the amenities covered by the fee.


Though our field spans a myriad of linguistic regions and our members represent the most diverse language backgrounds, it is IABS policy that official Congress proceedings, including papers and presentations, be conducted in an English-language medium.


As all future communication will be distributed via email, I encourage those who wish to attend or stay abreast of Congress news to fill out the electronic ?Mailing List? request form found at our website: http://www.iabs2017-uoft.ca/contact/. Please write to me, Christoph Emmrich, directly, if you have any questions or concerns about future communication. My address is found at the bottom of this circular under ?Correspondent,? or at the above website address.


Academic Program

In following with past Congresses, the proceedings in Toronto will consist of both panel presentations and paper sections. Panels have been proposed by their respective convenors, and will consist of no more than six papers, each 20 minutes in length, each followed by a 10 minute discussion period. All told, panels will last half a day, including a coffee and tea break after the first three papers. The organizers and I will strive to ensure that papers in each panel begin and end in unison to allow participants to attend select papers from multiple panels.


Sections, in contrast, have been chosen in accordance with past Congresses and are to be compiled from individual paper submissions. They will follow the same format as panels in terms of time and duration: 20 minutes for delivery and 10 minutes of question and answer period immediately following each paper. Please be advised that in the event an insufficient number of qualified entries are made to a given section, the Planning Committee and I reserve the right to decide to cancel the said section and reassign the papers accepted to another, thematically equivalent section as well as the time slot to another section with a surplus of submissions.


Individual Paper Proposals

I cordially invite scholars, students, and independent researchers from across the spectrum of Buddhist Studies to submit abstracts for individual papers, starting May 15th, 2016. Paper abstracts should be no more than 500 words, and preferably in both word and PDF format. In order to contribute a paper to an individual section, please upload abstracts to the Congress website at http://www.iabs2017-uoft.ca/, indicating which section the abstract will address. Please limit your selection to one section. The list of sections is found below. It has been chosen with the aim of being both representative of the traditional profile of the Congress and as inclusive as possible. Some submissions might fit under several section headers, though only one presentation per participant is permitted.


Indeed, to ensure a smooth and balanced program that allows for maximum participation, attendees are limited to act in only one official capacity at the Congress: this limit extends to presenting a paper, convening a panel, or acting as designated discussant. If one has any questions pertaining to this limit, please contact me directly at the correspondence address listed below.


The following are the sections proposed for the XVIIIth IABS Congress:


?gama and Nik?ya Studies

Abhidharma Studies

Buddhism and Gender

Buddhism and Its Relation to Other Religions

Buddhism and Its Relation to Science

Buddhism and Society

Buddhism and the ?rama?as

Buddhist Art and Architecture

Buddhist Hermeneutics, Scholasticism, and Commentarial Techniques

Buddhist Literature

Buddhist Music

Buddhist Places

Buddhist Sciences

Contemporary Buddhism

Early Buddhism

Epigraphy, Manuscripts, and Codicology

Epistemology and Logic in Buddhism

Information Technologies in Buddhist Studies

Mah?y?na Buddhism

Mah?y?na S?tras

?r?vakay?na Buddhism, incl. Therav?da

Tantric Buddhism

The Canonical Languages of Buddhism

Vinaya Studies



Panels, unlike sections, are organized by their respective convenor(s), who are responsible for their academic standard, thematic cohesion, and timely submission. Should you wish to contribute a paper towards the conference that in your eyes may fit one of the announced panels, you should contact the convenor(s) directly through the email addresses provided below, before submitting a paper proposal to one of the sections. All decisions regarding acceptance of paper proposals are made by the convenor(s). Once panels have been filled, their convenor(s) can close the panels and direct further submissions to paper sections instead. We welcome convenors to also present on their respective panels (this being the only exception to the one-capacity rule stated above), but also request them to ensure that no more than six papers constitute any one panel and to remind their panelists that they may not commit to joining other panels. Convenors should email a complete package of paper abstracts directly to me no later than October 1st, 2016.


Below is a list of accepted panels for the XVIIIth IABS Congress in Toronto:

Title


Convenor(s)


Email(s)


A New Study of Ratn?kara??nti?s Praj??p?ramitopade?a


Katsura, Shoryu

Hong, Luo


shoryukatsura at nifty.com



Approaches to the Bodhicary?vat?ra


Gold, Jonathan C.


jcgold at princeton.edu


Bell Inscriptions Across the Buddhist World


Doney, Lewis

Bretfeld, Sven


doney.lewis at gmail.com

sven.bretfeld at ntnu.no


Brahmin Buddhists


Walser, Joseph


joseph.walser at tufts.edu


Buddhism from the Margins: Using Manuscript Sources to Re-examine the Rituals and Routines of Medieval and Early Modern Buddhist Communities in Japan, Korea, and China


Keyworth, George A.


george.keyworth at gmail.com


Buddhism in the S?tav?hana Empire: The Languages of the S?tav?hanas and the Languages of Buddhism


Ollett, Andrew


andrew.ollett at gmail.com


Buddhist Conceptions of History


Thompson, Luke


lnt2106 at columbia.edu


Buddhist Cosmology and Astral Science


Mak, Bill M.


bill.m.mak at gmail.com


Buddhist Landscapes Made and Remade


Carbine, Jason A.


jcarbine at whittier.edu


Buddhist Studies and the Scientific Study of Meditation


Braun, Erik

McMahan, David


ecb2j at eservices.virginia.edu

david.mcmahan at fandm.edu


Buddhist Tourism: Sacred Sites within Global Networks


Bruntz, Courtney

Schedneck, Brooke


bruntzc at oregonstate.edu

brooke at iseaa.org


Buddhist Ways of Reading


Heim, Maria

Gummer, Natalie


mrheim at amherst.edu

gummern at beloit.edu


Concepts and Techniques of Prognostication


Guggenmos, Esther-Maria

Scheuermann, Rolf


rolf.scheuermann at fau.de

esther-maria.guggenmos at fau.de


Conventional Reality, Conventional Truth


McClintock, Sara


slmccli at emory.edu


Deeds of a Buddha


Tournier, Vincent

Luczanits, Christian

Sernesi, Marta


vt6 at soas.ac.uk

cl46 at soas.ac.uk

ms153 at soas.ac.uk


Dh?ra?? Literature and Textual Cultures


Davidson, Ronald M.


rdavidson at fairfield.edu


Discipline, Agency, Inquiry: Vinaya Reception in Women?s Monastic Communities Past and Present


Langenberg, Amy Paris


langenap at eckerd.edu


Does Candrak?rti Offer Any Epistemology (pram??a)?


Westerhoff, Jan

Thakchoe, Sonam


jan.westerhoff at theology.ox.ac.uk

sonam.thakchoe at utas.edu.au


Early Buddhist Manuscripts from Gandh?ra: New Discoveries and Research


Baums, Stefan

Strauch, Ingo


baums at lmu.de

ingo.strauch at unil.ch


Images and Practices of Buddhist Kingship across Asia


Berkwitz, Stephen

Dotson, Brandon


sberkwitz at missouristate.edu

dotson.brandon at gmail.com


Insights into Gandh?ran Buddhist Narratives through Art and Texts


Neelis, Jason


jneelis at wlu.ca


Literatures of Contemplation


Quintman, Andrew

Schaeffer, Kurtis


andrew.quintman at yale.edu

ks6bb at virginia.edu


Monastic Espionage in East Asia: Medieval Period


Chen, Jinhua


jinhuachen2013 at gmail.com


Monastic Espionage in East Asia in the Age of Isolationism, 14th to 19th Century


Bingenheimer, Marcus


m.bingenheimer at gmail.com


Monastic Espionage in East Asia: Modern Period


Brose, Benjamin


bbrose at umich.edu


New Approaches to W?nhyo and His Thought ? A Panel in Commemoration of the  1400th Anniversary of His Birth


Cho, Eun-su

Buswell, Robert


cho.eunsu at gmail.com

buswell at humnet.ucla.edu


New Research on Newar Buddhism


B?hnemann, Gudrun


gbuhnema at wisc.edu


New Trajectories in the Study of Buddhism and Law


Lammerts, D. Christian

Schonthal, Ben


dcl96 at rci.rutgers.edu

ben.schonthal at otago.ac.nz


Recent Approaches in Vinaya Studies


Borgland, Jens W.


jwborgland at gmail.com


Recent Research on the D?rgh?gama


Melzer, Gudrun

Choi, Jinkyoung


g.melzer at lmu.de

precioussunshine at gmail.com


Reconstructing the History of Late Indian Buddhism (Part III)

Relationship between Tantric and Non-tantric Doctrines


Kyuma, Taiken


kyuma at human.mie-u.ac.jp


Ritual, Doctrine, and Monasticism: Buddhist Practices in Dunhuang


Liu, Cuilan

Chen, Huaiyu


cuilanliu at post.harvard.edu

huaiyu.chen at asu.edu


Stories Behind the Story: Revisiting the Buddha?s Hagiography


Sasson, Vanessa


v.sasson at marianopolis.edu


The Avad?na?ataka: The Uses of Narrative


Appleton, Naomi

Muldoon-Hules, Karen


naomi.appleton at ed.ac.uk

kmuldoon at unex.ucla.edu


The Buddha?s Footprint in Asian Cultures


Handlin, Lilian


lilioscar at aol.com


The Manuscript Tradition of the P?li Texts in South and Southeast Asia


Yamanaka, Yukio


yukio916 at icloud.com


The Roles of Iconic Imagery in South Asian Buddhist Architectural Contexts: Reconstructions and New Perspectives


Morrissey, Nicolas


nmorriss at uga.edu


Transmission and Transformation of Buddhist Logic and Epistemology in East Asia (I): Around Dign?ga?s Logic and Fallacies of Debate


Ono, Mitoi

Inami, Masahiro


ono at logos.tsukuba.ac.jp


Transmission and Transformation of Buddhist Logic and Epistemology in East Asia (II): Around Yog?c?ra and Madhyamaka Texts in Chinese Translations


Moriyama, Shinya

Moro, Shigeki


smoriyam at shinshu-u.ac.jp


Transparent, Translucent, or Opaque: Chinese Translations of Indic Texts as Windows onto Indian Buddhism


Witkowski, Nicholas


nwitkows at alumni.stanford.edu


Travel, Transmission, and Affiliation: Lineage in the Buddhist Crossroads of Inner Asia


King, Matthew W.


matthew.king at ucr.edu


Vinaya Commentaries


Clarke, Shayne


clarsha at mcmaster.ca


What Makes a Monastery a Great Monastery? Textual, Art Historical, and Archaeological Evidence from India to [the Borders of] China


Forte, Erika


erika.forte at univie.ac.at


Yog?c?ra Across Asia: India, Tibet, and East Asia


Yao, Zhihua

Bayer, Achim


zyao at cuhk.edu.hk

bayer_achim at yahoo.com


Zones of Contact: Facets of Buddhist Interactions in Eastern Central Asia During the 9th-14th Centuries


Meinert, Carmen


carmen.meinert at rub.de




Conference Schedule

Date


Morning


Afternoon


Evening


Sunday, August 20, 2017


Registration


Registration


Opening Reception


Monday, August 21, 2017


Panels and Sections


Panels and Sections


Evening Presentations


Tuesday, August 22, 2017


Panels and Sections


Panels and Sections


Evening Presentations


Wednesday, August 23, 2017


Panels and Sections


Panels and Sections


Evening Presentations


Thursday, August 24, 2017


Panels and Sections


Excursions




Friday, August 25, 2017


Panels and Sections


Panels and Sections


Closing Reception



Registration Fee


To assist the organizers in hosting the event, we have set the Congress fee at $330 CAD. This fee includes attendance, coffee, tea and hot lunch during the academic programming, meals at both the Opening and Closing Receptions, as well as printing costs for paper programs. Not included in this fee are meals outside of the academic program and Opening and Closing Receptions, such as breakfasts and dinners, as well as travel, accommodation, excursions, and special events.


Those registering before March 31st, 2017 will enjoy a discounted fee of $300 CAD, while graduate students are entitled to a rate of $250 CAD with confirmation of enrollment status. Students from countries with low currency exchange rates when compared to the Canadian Dollar may request a fee reduction by writing to me directly at the address provided below. Decisions on fee reduction will be made on a case-by-case basis, and I regret that only a limited number of such reductions can be granted.


Fee payment will be made online through our website, where, as mentioned above, you will be expected to provide proof of payment of your IABS membership fee for 2017. Please visit the website on October 1st, 2016 to complete your online Congress registration.


Posters and Exhibits


In addition to panels and paper sections, we welcome the submission of project presentations from scholars and organizations who wish to display their work to the Congress at large. We regret that only a limited number of presentations can be selected. Please write to me directly to inquire about presenting your project at the XVIIIth IABS Congress.


Exhibitors providing professional services or products such as books are also invited to contact me directly to inquire about renting space during the Congress proceedings.


Visa Requirements


As the Congress will attract scholars and students from all over the world, it is not possible for the organising team to advise or assist with securing visas to Canada, since the process varies widely depending on the country of origin of each attendee. Potential attendees are encouraged to consult the Canadian Embassy or Consulate in their home country or country of residence as early as possible. Travel agencies are also possible sources of information on the visa process. We can, however, provide letters indicating that an individual is in fact registered to attend or present at the Congress. Please write to me directly if you wish to request such a letter.


Airline


I wish to gently remind everyone that Congress attendees are responsible for covering all travel to and from Toronto. Currently we are trying to secure a discounted rate for travel by air, and updated information will appear on the website once registration begins, October 1st, 2016. Please check the website after this date for update travel information.


Accommodation

Congress participants are responsible to secure their own accommodation and pay all attendant costs. Below is a list of accommodations near the University of Toronto, St. George Campus, some of which have granted discounted rates to Congress attendees. When booking, please inform them of your attendance at the XVIIIth Congress of the International Association of Buddhist Studies, 2017. A range of options has been provided to suit the different needs of our Congress attendees. Please be advised that the University is located in downtown Toronto, and August is one of the busiest times of the year, so kindly book early if possible.



Budget


Single Occupancy


Double Occupancy


Admiral St. George: BB and Guesthouse

305 St. George St. / 416-921-1899


$50/Student

$95/1 Bedroom

$125/Big room




Annex Quest House

83 Spadina Road / 416-922-1934


$95/night

$545/week




Medium






Howard Johnson Hotel: Toronto-Yorkville

89 Avenue Road / 416-964-1220


$95/1 Double Bed

$143/King Bed


$109/2 Double Beds


Comfort Hotel Downtown

15 Charles St. E. / 416-924-1222


>From $119




Eaton Chelsea

33 Gerrard Street West

1-800-243-5732 / 416-595-1975


>From $169*


>From $169*


Holiday Inn Toronto: Downtown

30 Carlton Street / 416-977-6655


$177/1 Bed Executive


$177/ 2 Double Beds


Beverley Place

226 Beverley St / 416-977-0077


$180/Single, $290/Queen




High End






The Grande: Hotel and Suites

225 Jarvis Street / 416-863-9000


$229 Grand Deluxe*



$389 Two Bed Junior


Park Hyatt Toronto

4 Avenue Road / 416-925-1234


>From $309/Night




Intercontinental Toronto-Yorkville

220 Bloor Street West / 416-960-5200


$235/Night*





Windsor Arms Hotel

18 St. Thomas Street / 416-971-9666


$325/Junior Suite*


$395/Junior Suite 2 Beds


The Hazelton Hotel

118 Yorkville Ave / 416-963-6300


>From $525/Night




Four Seasons Hotel Toronto

60 Yorkville Avenue / 416-964-0411


>From $565/Night





*Special discounts for Congress attendees. Some of these rates will expire as the date of the Congress moves closer, so make sure to book at least a month in advance of the proceedings.


An updated list of accommodations will be available on the Congress website after registration begins, so please check the website regularly after this date. The Third Circular, due in April, 2017, will also contain more information about accommodations.


Conference Travel Grants


Unfortunately we are not able to provide any grants or scholarships to participants or presenters for this Congress.


Website


I urge you to consult our website regularly for updates and practical information about the upcoming Congress at http://www.iabs2017-uoft.ca/. We will be sure to update it regularly.


Third Circular


In a year from now, April 2017, I will send forth the Third Circular, the final notice before the Congress proceedings in August of that same year. The Third Circular will include a detailed academic program, further information about evening events and excursions, as well as up to date travel and accommodation information.


I truly look forward to seeing everyone in Toronto, 2017.


My warmest regards

Christoph Emmrich



Planning Committee of the XVIIIth IABS Congress

 President:


Anne MacDonald


 Chair:


Christoph Emmrich



 Members:


Wendi Adamek, University of Calgary




James Apple, University of Calgary




Dan Arnold, University of Chicago




James Benn, McMaster University




Lara Braitstein, McGill University




Chen Shen, Royal Ontario Museum




Jinhua Chen, University of British Columbia




Shayne Clarke, McMaster University




Deepali Dewan, Royal Ontario Museum




David Drewes, University of Manitoba




Frances Garrett, University of Toronto




Amanda Goodman, University of Toronto




Nam-Lin Hur, University of British Columbia




Chiara Letizia, Universit? de Qu?bec




Jessica Main, University of British Columbia




Jason Neelis, Wilfrid Laurier University




Mark Rowe, McMaster University




Alicia Turner, York University




Jeff Wilson, University of Waterloo


 Advisory Board:


Collett Cox, University of Washington




Birgit Kellner, Austrian Academy of Sciences




Ulrich Pagel, University of London




Tom Tillemans, University of Lausanne



 Academic Coordination:


Anthony Scott, University of Toronto







Correspondent

Dr. Christoph Emmrich, Associate Professor

Chair, Planning Committee of the XVIIIth IABS Congress

University of Toronto, Department for the Study of Religion

170 St. George Street, Toronto, Ontario M5R 2M8

Canada

E-mail: christoph.emmrich at utoronto.ca




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From nicole.karapanagiotis at gmail.com  Thu Sep  8 16:13:34 2016
From: nicole.karapanagiotis at gmail.com (Nicole Karapanagiotis)
Date: Thu, 08 Sep 16 12:13:34 -0400
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Finding two Puranic slokas
Message-ID: <CAHm51TidFSnUNggG0fkSSocufEYjMwejUXLPYxnQr9omUeL7Rg@mail.gmail.com>

Dear friends,

I am looking for sloka references for the following two Puranic ideas as I
want to go back to the original texts.

1.  Padma Purana sloka which translates to "I dwell not in Vaikuntha, nor
in the heart of yogis, but where my devotees sing."  Anyone know the exact
reference for this one?

2.  Naradiya Purana wherein it states that chanting loudly is much greater
than chanting in silence...

Thank you--any leads are much appreciated!

Nicole Karapanagiotis

-- 
Dr. Nicole Karapanagiotis, Ph.D.
Asst. Professor of Religion
Rutgers, The State University of New Jersey
Department of Philosophy and Religion
Camden College of Arts and Sciences
429 Cooper St., Room #303
Camden, NJ 08102
nicole.karapanagiotis at rutgers.edu


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From Toke.Knudsen at oneonta.edu  Thu Sep  8 20:11:23 2016
From: Toke.Knudsen at oneonta.edu (Toke Knudsen)
Date: Thu, 08 Sep 16 20:11:23 +0000
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Sanskrit material on philosophy of education
Message-ID: <6C234623-C051-4181-94D4-E5E75C29526A@oneonta.edu>

Dear all,

A colleague of mine sent me the following question:

?I am teaching a course on education and its objectives. We do a fair bit of philosophy in this course but most of our sources are European. Do you think there are certain Sanskrit treatises (hopefully available in English) which belong in a course on the philosophy of education??

Would any of you be able to comment on this question?

Best wishes,
Toke

-----
Toke Lindegaard Knudsen, Ph.D.
Associate Professor of Mathematics
Department of Mathematics, Computer Science, and Statistics
264 Fitzelle Hall
State University of New York at Oneonta
108 Ravine Parkway
Oneonta, NY 13820
USA

(607) 436-3726 (phone)
(607) 436-2173 (fax)
<toke.knudsen at oneonta.edu>




From tcoleman at ColoradoCollege.edu  Thu Sep  8 20:34:53 2016
From: tcoleman at ColoradoCollege.edu (Tracy Coleman)
Date: Thu, 08 Sep 16 20:34:53 +0000
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Sanskrit material on philosophy of education
In-Reply-To: <6C234623-C051-4181-94D4-E5E75C29526A@oneonta.edu>
Message-ID: <BN3PR0601MB1073FD8858A5B7B2ED41FBE0CFFB0@BN3PR0601MB1073.namprd06.prod.outlook.com>

Hi Toke,


Brill's Encyclopedia of Hinduism has an entry, "Transmission of Knowledge," that might be helpful.


Cheers,

Tracy


________________________________
From: INDOLOGY <indology-bounces at list.indology.info> on behalf of Toke Knudsen <Toke.Knudsen at oneonta.edu>
Sent: Thursday, September 8, 2016 2:11 PM
To: indology at list.indology.info
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Sanskrit material on philosophy of education

Dear all,

A colleague of mine sent me the following question:

"I am teaching a course on education and its objectives. We do a fair bit of philosophy in this course but most of our sources are European. Do you think there are certain Sanskrit treatises (hopefully available in English) which belong in a course on the philosophy of education?"

Would any of you be able to comment on this question?

Best wishes,
Toke

-----
Toke Lindegaard Knudsen, Ph.D.
Associate Professor of Mathematics
Department of Mathematics, Computer Science, and Statistics
264 Fitzelle Hall
State University of New York at Oneonta
108 Ravine Parkway
Oneonta, NY 13820
USA

(607) 436-3726 (phone)
(607) 436-2173 (fax)
<toke.knudsen at oneonta.edu>
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From mkapstei at uchicago.edu  Thu Sep  8 20:39:02 2016
From: mkapstei at uchicago.edu (Matthew Kapstein)
Date: Thu, 08 Sep 16 20:39:02 +0000
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Sanskrit material on philosophy of education
In-Reply-To: <6C234623-C051-4181-94D4-E5E75C29526A@oneonta.edu>
Message-ID: <82C3E42590D939418C74DD76B97DDED047BC4C18@xm-mbx-06-prod>

Dear Toke,

You may wish to take a look at Jonathan Gold, The Dharma's Gatekeepers (SUNY 2007).
It is based primarily on a 13th c. Tibetan trivium that cleaves closely to Sanskrit sources. 

Richard Nance, Speaking for Buddhas (Columbia U Press) addresses Indian Buddhist
instruction in ch. 2. 

Altekar's 1944 work, Education in Ancient India, may also prove useful.

Hope this helps,
Matthew

Matthew Kapstein
Directeur d'?tudes,
Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes

Numata Visiting Professor of Buddhist Studies,
The University of Chicago

____




From torzsokjudit at hotmail.com  Thu Sep  8 20:46:32 2016
From: torzsokjudit at hotmail.com (Judit Torzsok)
Date: Thu, 08 Sep 16 20:46:32 +0000
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Sanskrit material on philosophy of education
In-Reply-To: <82C3E42590D939418C74DD76B97DDED047BC4C18@xm-mbx-06-prod>
Message-ID: <VI1PR03MB1598F4928337D6C50E90A818CDFB0@VI1PR03MB1598.eurprd03.prod.outlook.com>

Dear Toke,


There is also H. Scharfe, Education in Ancient India, Brill 2002.

Best,


Judit T?rzs?k


________________________________
From: INDOLOGY <indology-bounces at list.indology.info> on behalf of Matthew Kapstein <mkapstei at uchicago.edu>
Sent: Thursday, September 8, 2016 8:39 PM
To: Toke Knudsen; indology at list.indology.info
Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] Sanskrit material on philosophy of education

Dear Toke,

You may wish to take a look at Jonathan Gold, The Dharma's Gatekeepers (SUNY 2007).
It is based primarily on a 13th c. Tibetan trivium that cleaves closely to Sanskrit sources.

Richard Nance, Speaking for Buddhas (Columbia U Press) addresses Indian Buddhist
instruction in ch. 2.

Altekar's 1944 work, Education in Ancient India, may also prove useful.

Hope this helps,
Matthew

Matthew Kapstein
Directeur d'?tudes,
Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes

Numata Visiting Professor of Buddhist Studies,
The University of Chicago

____
_______________________________________________
INDOLOGY mailing list
INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee)
http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe)
INDOLOGY Info Page<http://listinfo.indology.info/>
listinfo.indology.info
INDOLOGY is an internet discussion group whose primary purpose is to provide a forum for discussion among professional scholars of classical Indian (South Asian ...




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From LubinT at wlu.edu  Thu Sep  8 20:49:05 2016
From: LubinT at wlu.edu (Lubin, Tim)
Date: Thu, 08 Sep 16 20:49:05 +0000
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Sanskrit material on philosophy of education
Message-ID: <D3F74689.2CF7C%lubint@wlu.edu>

Add to these:

Hartmut Scharfe, Education in Ancient India, Brill 2002, and Ludo Rocher?s review there of, in the Journal of the American Oriental Society, Vol. 124, No. 1 (Jan. - Mar., 2004), pp. 197-
199.

Tim

From: INDOLOGY <indology-bounces at list.indology.info<mailto:indology-bounces at list.indology.info>> on behalf of "mkapstei at UCHICAGO.EDU<mailto:mkapstei at UCHICAGO.EDU>" <mkapstei at UCHICAGO.EDU<mailto:mkapstei at UCHICAGO.EDU>>
Date: Thursday, September 8, 2016 at 4:39 PM
To: Toke Knudsen <Toke.Knudsen at oneonta.edu<mailto:Toke.Knudsen at oneonta.edu>>, "indology at list.indology.info<mailto:indology at list.indology.info>" <indology at list.indology.info<mailto:indology at list.indology.info>>
Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] Sanskrit material on philosophy of education

Dear Toke,

You may wish to take a look at Jonathan Gold, The Dharma's Gatekeepers (SUNY 2007).
It is based primarily on a 13th c. Tibetan trivium that cleaves closely to Sanskrit sources.

Richard Nance, Speaking for Buddhas (Columbia U Press) addresses Indian Buddhist
instruction in ch. 2.

Altekar's 1944 work, Education in Ancient India, may also prove useful.

Hope this helps,
Matthew

Matthew Kapstein
Directeur d'?tudes,
Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes

Numata Visiting Professor of Buddhist Studies,
The University of Chicago

____
_______________________________________________
INDOLOGY mailing list
INDOLOGY at list.indology.info<mailto:INDOLOGY at list.indology.info>
indology-owner at list.indology.info<mailto:indology-owner at list.indology.info> (messages to the list's managing committee)
http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe)



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From rpg at berkeley.edu  Thu Sep  8 22:43:53 2016
From: rpg at berkeley.edu (Robert Goldman)
Date: Thu, 08 Sep 16 15:43:53 -0700
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Sanskrit material on philosophy of education
In-Reply-To: <D3F74689.2CF7C%lubint@wlu.edu>
Message-ID: <F371F328-CDC6-4E20-9F0D-E60589955FF5@berkeley.edu>

For an intersting and amusing observation on the psychology of pedagogy, see ?a?kar?c?rya?s bh??ya on Ch?ndogyopani?ad 8.7.4 where he explains why Praj?pati permits his pupils, Indra and Virocana to temporarily entertain an inaccurate understanding of the ?tman. It?s all about your students? self esteem.

?tmany adhy?ropitap???ityamahattvaboddh?tvau hi indravirocanau tathaiva ca prathitau loke. tau yadi praj?patin? ?m??hau! yuv?? vipar?tagr?hi??v? ity uktau sy?t?? tatas tayo? citte du?kha? sy?t. taj janit?c ca citt?vas?d?t puna? pra?na?rava?agraha??vadh?ra?a? praty uts?havigh?ta? sy?t. ato ?rak?a??yau ?i?y?v? iti manyate praj?pati?. g?h??t?? t?vat. tad uda?ar?vad????nten?pane?y?mi ca.

Cheers   

Bob
Dr. R. P.  Goldman
Catherine and William L. Magistretti Distinguished Professor in South and Southeast Asian Studies
Department of South and Southeast Asian Studies MC # 2540
The University of California at Berkeley
Berkeley, CA 94720-2540
Tel: 510-642-4089
Fax: 510-642-2409



> On Sep 8, 2016, at 1:49 PM, Lubin, Tim <LubinT at wlu.edu> wrote:
> 
> Add to these:
> 
> Hartmut Scharfe, Education in Ancient India, Brill 2002, and Ludo Rocher?s review there of, in the Journal of the American Oriental Society, Vol. 124, No. 1 (Jan. - Mar., 2004), pp. 197-
> 199.
> 
> Tim
> 
> From: INDOLOGY <indology-bounces at list.indology.info <mailto:indology-bounces at list.indology.info>> on behalf of "mkapstei at UCHICAGO.EDU <mailto:mkapstei at UCHICAGO.EDU>" <mkapstei at UCHICAGO.EDU <mailto:mkapstei at UCHICAGO.EDU>>
> Date: Thursday, September 8, 2016 at 4:39 PM
> To: Toke Knudsen <Toke.Knudsen at oneonta.edu <mailto:Toke.Knudsen at oneonta.edu>>, "indology at list.indology.info <mailto:indology at list.indology.info>" <indology at list.indology.info <mailto:indology at list.indology.info>>
> Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] Sanskrit material on philosophy of education
> 
> Dear Toke,
> 
> You may wish to take a look at Jonathan Gold, The Dharma's Gatekeepers (SUNY 2007).
> It is based primarily on a 13th c. Tibetan trivium that cleaves closely to Sanskrit sources.
> 
> Richard Nance, Speaking for Buddhas (Columbia U Press) addresses Indian Buddhist
> instruction in ch. 2.
> 
> Altekar's 1944 work, Education in Ancient India, may also prove useful.
> 
> Hope this helps,
> Matthew
> 
> Matthew Kapstein
> Directeur d'?tudes,
> Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes
> 
> Numata Visiting Professor of Buddhist Studies,
> The University of Chicago
> 
> ____
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info <mailto:INDOLOGY at list.indology.info>
> indology-owner at list.indology.info <mailto:indology-owner at list.indology.info> (messages to the list's managing committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info <http://listinfo.indology.info/> (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe)
> 
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe)



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From david_buchta at brown.edu  Fri Sep  9 02:04:01 2016
From: david_buchta at brown.edu (Buchta, David)
Date: Thu, 08 Sep 16 22:04:01 -0400
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Finding two Puranic slokas
In-Reply-To: <CAHm51TidFSnUNggG0fkSSocufEYjMwejUXLPYxnQr9omUeL7Rg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAP_RTBAX-ex49VO1ayZup4UR+Zb1JR9UYTCQahuAcV1QjHf2hA@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Nicole,

For what it's worth, the Sanskrit for the Padma Pur??a-attributed verse you
are looking for is (with variants found in p?da b):
n?ha? vas?mi vaiku??he na yogi-h?daye?u v? |
mad-bhakt? yatra g?yanti tatra ti??h?mi n?rada //

It is quoted often by Gau??ya Vai??ava authors: In Gop?la Bha??a Gosv?min's
Haribhaktivil?sa (8.284) and J?va Gosv?min's *Bhaktisandarbha *(under
pariccheda 269). Both cite specifically the K?rttikam?h?tmya.

I hope this helps.

Best,
David

--
David Buchta
Lecturer in Sanskrit
Department of Classics
Brown University

On Thu, Sep 8, 2016 at 12:13 PM, Nicole Karapanagiotis <
nicole.karapanagiotis at gmail.com> wrote:

> Dear friends,
>
> I am looking for sloka references for the following two Puranic ideas as I
> want to go back to the original texts.
>
> 1.  Padma Purana sloka which translates to "I dwell not in Vaikuntha, nor
> in the heart of yogis, but where my devotees sing."  Anyone know the exact
> reference for this one?
>
> 2.  Naradiya Purana wherein it states that chanting loudly is much greater
> than chanting in silence...
>
> Thank you--any leads are much appreciated!
>
> Nicole Karapanagiotis
>
> --
> Dr. Nicole Karapanagiotis, Ph.D.
> Asst. Professor of Religion
> Rutgers, The State University of New Jersey
> Department of Philosophy and Religion
> Camden College of Arts and Sciences
> 429 Cooper St., Room #303
> Camden, NJ 08102
> nicole.karapanagiotis at rutgers.edu
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
> committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
> unsubscribe)
>


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From psdmccartney at gmail.com  Fri Sep  9 04:07:27 2016
From: psdmccartney at gmail.com (patrick mccartney)
Date: Fri, 09 Sep 16 13:37:27 +0930
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Fwd: Episode 4-Imagining Sanskrit Land: It's Time to get	Married
In-Reply-To: <CAEzwJrAGXoMSrRJkuP2oFmG2KAz=1mhAyx4NrM00g-Xe-Zh=mA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAEzwJrDepRCzKxv4=hLR7WV6QqDaS1wAe2T-2tAUES2f9z+CqQ@mail.gmail.com>

Dear Friends,

Imagining Sanskrit Land is a documentary short-film series about life in
some Indian villages that have become known for their aspiration to speak
only fluent Sanskrit. These villages are somewhat famous within India and
around the world due to misleading media reports that suggest 'everyone
speaks only fluent Sanskrit'. This research aims to put this claim into
proper perspective. My research in general focuses on how and where the
politics of imagination, the sociology of spirituality and the economics of
religion meet. I am interested in how particular identities and practices
accrete and manifest around the utopian aspiration of the  'Vedic way of
life', which can be thought of as a reconstituted neo-Hindu interpretation
of the Vedic period (ca. 1500-500 BCE) and is expressed, in a sense, as a
political ideology and also as a moniker of a consumable lifestyle within
the transglobal yoga, wellness and spiritual tourism industry.

Season 1 explores life in the village of Jhiri, Madhya Pradesh. Jhiri is a
tiny hamlet of about 600 people that does not have any running water or
electricity.

In Episode 4 - https://youtu.be/_B3un7aHEAc - we catch a glimpse of some of
the culture surrounding life and weddings in Jhiri. I have tried to capture
some of the joy, sadness and mayhem involved through showing aspects of a
few weddings that occurred during my time in Jhiri during April-May 2015.
Because the music was so loud during a lot of the wedding processions this
film does not have much dialogue. This was because it was impossible to
hear what was spoken a lot of the time. The music was so loud that even on
some occasions I recall my teeth hurt.

One important socio-linguistic aspect is that the annual exodus of women
from the village means that this particular Sanskrit language nest 'leaks'.
Viable Sanskrit-speaking women might move 50 kms away to their in-laws
home; which is what happens to one woman in the film who moves to Dungri.
No Sanskrit is spoken there and there is also a language change as well. In
Dungri people speak Hindi and not Malvi, which is the first language of
Jhiri. It is a mutually intelligible variant of the Western branch of the
Hindi family. However, unlike Hindi, which is one of India's two Official
Languages and the state language of Madhya Pradesh, Malvi suffers from a
perceived lack of prestige and is disparagingly referred to by those who do
not speak it as a 'kheti bh???' or 'farmer's language'. This is one reason
that the residents of Jhiri seek to transition to Sanskrit as it is
considered to be more prestigious. It is also believed that Sanskrit will
facilitate a cultural and moral renaissance. Simply by hearing it spoken it
is believed by the promoters of spoken Sanskrit that this will help bring
about a cultural, linguistic and political shift towards creating a
theological state otherwise known as the Hindu nation. This is part an
explicit utopian aspiration to create a pan-global Hindu world and have
Sanskrit replace English as the next global lingua franca.

I hope you enjoy this latest instalment of Imagining Sanskrit Land.


All the best,

Patrick McCartney, PhD
Fellow
School of Culture, History & Language
College of the Asia-Pacific
The Australian National University
Canberra, Australia, 0200


Skype - psdmccartney
Phone + Whatsapp:  +61 414 954 748
Twitter - @psdmccartney

academia <https://anu-au.academia.edu/patrickmccartney>

   -

Linkedin
<https://www.linkedin.com/profile/view?id=241756978&trk=nav_responsive_tab_profile>

#yogabodyANU2016 symposium
<http://chl.anu.edu.au/news-events/events/658/yoga-and-body-past-and-present-symposium?#tab>

<http://chl.anu.edu.au/news-events/events/658/yoga-and-body-past-and-present-symposium?#tab>

Ep1 - Imagining Sanskrit Land <https://youtu.be/jMi7tkPBbJ4>

Ep 2 - Total-am <https://youtu.be/7tAp8m9RHPU>

Ep 3 - Jalam ? Chillum <https://youtu.be/cLZeuCT_mwQ>

A Day in our Ashram
<https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=ek+din+hamaare+ashram+mein>

Stop animation short film of Shakuntala
<https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LVqBD_2P4Pg>

Forced to Clean Human Waste <http://youtu.be/y3XfjbwqC_g>

One of my favourite song <http://trinityroots.bandcamp.com/track/all-we-be>s


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From karp at uw.edu.pl  Fri Sep  9 09:13:42 2016
From: karp at uw.edu.pl (Artur Karp)
Date: Fri, 09 Sep 16 11:13:42 +0200
Subject: =?utf-8?Q?[INDOLOGY]_A=C5=9Boka_&/vs._Yudhi=E1=B9=A3=E1=B9=ADhira?=
Message-ID: <CALNcvFsDyEPhnvpv7T=VDBW8JXYUuNBHHRH6HO=bu50Bxw=6FQ@mail.gmail.com>

Dear List,

Has anyone pursued *Nick Sutton's* ideas/concepts expressed in his

*A?oka and Yudhi??hira: A Historical Setting for the*
*Ideological Tensions of the Mah?bh?rata*


*Religion(1997) 27,333?341 *

*?*

Highest regards,

Artur Karp (ret.)
Chair of South Asian Studies,
University of Warsaw
Poland


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From paoloe.rosati at gmail.com  Fri Sep  9 09:17:26 2016
From: paoloe.rosati at gmail.com (Paolo Eugenio Rosati)
Date: Fri, 09 Sep 16 11:17:26 +0200
Subject: =?utf-8?Q?[INDOLOGY]_Skandapurana:_=C5=9Aiva,_cremation_grounds_and_sexual_intercourses?=
Message-ID: <CAMOCTf87eGAMxkSs4nyfX6vAWT_T50us=DuGjKo986u9q69mfg@mail.gmail.com>

Dear Indologists,

I'm looking for a translated (in english) passage of the Skandapurana:

In a secondary sources found that in *Skandapurana 5.2.8.1* and following
verses it should be written that ?iva was used to dwell in the crematory
fields where he had sexual intercourse with his wife (Sati?).

Actually I cannot check the edition kept in our department's library.
Anyone has a pdf or can just report the exact verses (5.2.8.1 to
5.2.8.xxx)? I also need to be sure that the secundary source was right in
quoting the source.

Moreover, anyone can suggest any other Puranic source where I could find
the same (or similar) description?

Best,
Paolo


-- 
Paolo E. Rosati
Oriental Archaeologist
PhD candidate in "Civilizations of Asia and Africa"
South Asia Section
Dep. Italian Institute of Oriental Studies/ISO
'Sapienza' University of Rome
*https://uniroma1.academia.edu/PaoloRosati/
<https://uniroma1.academia.edu/PaoloRosati/>*
paoloe.rosati at uniroma1.it
paoloe.rosati at gmail.com
Skype: paoloe.rosati
Mobile: (+39) 338 73 83 472


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From karp at uw.edu.pl  Fri Sep  9 09:20:57 2016
From: karp at uw.edu.pl (Artur Karp)
Date: Fri, 09 Sep 16 11:20:57 +0200
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Lariviere
Message-ID: <CALNcvFvYyBOY02v6UAreRtH4Lngz3kjvC+=tioHDuBb2pd7gyg@mail.gmail.com>

Dear List,

How should I quote Richard Lariviere's

*Protestants, Orientalists, and Br?hmanas: Reconstructing Indian Social
History *


(source?, place? date: 1994? 1995?, pages?)


Dzi?kuj? za rad?,


Artur Karp


Poland


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From disimone at alumni.stanford.edu  Fri Sep  9 09:23:51 2016
From: disimone at alumni.stanford.edu (Charles DiSimone)
Date: Fri, 09 Sep 16 11:23:51 +0200
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Schedule for International Indology Graduate Research Symposium (IIGRS) 8. LMU Munich, Oct 29-30
Message-ID: <CADKD_zjySxnvgS5=AWvFgPF3zGSjX=+7CKP=ZBCy6hiOPqxWiQ@mail.gmail.com>

We are pleased to share below the schedule for the 8th International
Indology Graduate Research, organized by Charles DiSimone, Andrea Schlosser
and Jinkyoung Choi, which will be held at LMU Munich, Oct 29-30, 2016.
There is a particularly strong emphasis on Buddhist Studies for this year's
IIGRS as can be from the many talks on various buddological matters
including our keynote lecture by Prof. Dr. Jonathan Silk of Leiden
University titled: 'Einmal ist keinmal: ?Thus I have heard,? many times
more than once'.

The event is free and open to the public but we request that those
interested in attending register by writing us at: IIGRSuk at googlemail.com.

The schedule, along with other pertinent information also appears on our
website: https://iigrs.wordpress.com/

International Indology Graduate Research Symposium 8

Ludwig-Maximilians-Universit?t M?nchen

October 29?30, 2016



*Saturday, October 29*


9:15 am

Welcome





9:30 am

Session 1

*Sanne Mersch*, Leiden University

>From cosmogonic *yaj?avar?ha* to demon slaying *naravar?ha* ? Vi??u as a
boar in the *Skandapur??a*



10:00 am



*Agniezka Rostalska*, Ghent University

Reliable speaker (*?pta*) according to Bh?sarvaj?a



10:30 am

Tea Break





11:00 am

Session 2

*Seongho Choi*, Ludwig-Maximilians-Universit?t M?nchen

>From ?*n?mam?tram pa?yati*? to ?*n?mam?tra? na pa?yati*? ?  the change of
the philosophical exposition within Indian Yog?c?ra philosophy



11:30 am



*Chih-ying Wu*, National Chengchi University

Prasa?ga Argumentation in Vasubandhu?s *?tmav?daprati?edha*



12:00 pm

Lunch






1:30 pm

Session 3







*Szilvia Szanyi*, E?tv?s Lor?nd University

The positive and negative aspects of using dream as a metaphor in Yog?c?ra
philosophy



2:00 pm



*Hsun-Mei Chen*, National Taiwan University

The Role of Principle of Non-Contradiction as in *Madhyamaka?lam?ka?ra*



2:30 pm

Tea Break





3:00 pm

Session 4

*Channa Li*, Leiden University

Challenging the Buddha?s Authority:

??riputra?s Different Roles in the *S?tra of the Wise and Foolish*



3:30 pm



*Hao Sun*, Hamburg University

Towards a comparison of the Sanskrit, one Tibetan and two Chinese
translations of *?r?m?l?dev? Si?han?da S?tra* on Buddha-nature doctrine



4:00 pm

Tea Break





4:15?5:15 pm

Keynote

*Prof. Dr. Jonathan Silk*, Leiden University

Einmal ist keinmal: ?Thus I have heard,? many times more than once



6:00 pm

Dinner






*Sunday, October 30*



10:30 am

Session 5

*Simon Cubelic*, Heidelberg University

The Colonial Restoration of Dharma??stra:
Sarvoru ?arman?s *Viv?das?r?r?ava* and British Legal Discourse in late 18th
Century Eastern India



11:00 am



*Avni Chag*, SOAS, University of London

On the different recensions of the *?ik??patr?* of the Sv?min?r?ya?a
Samprada?ya



11:30 am

Tea break





12:00 pm

Session 6

*Aruna Gamage*, SOAS, University of London

The *K?lud?yi-Therag?th?* as Transmitted in the P?li Commentaries



12:30 pm



*Indaka Weerasekera*, University of Bristol

?While I was alone in seclusion, a thought arose in my mind?: Reflections
of the term *pa?isall?na* in P?li Buddhist texts



1:00 pm

Lunch



2:30 pm

Session 7

*Fumi Yao*, McMaster University

The Newly Identified Sanskrit Manuscript of the *Bhai?ajyavastu*



3:00 pm



*Wen Zhao*, Ludwig-Maximilians-Universit?t M?nchen

The Shift of the Meaning of *Buddh?nusm?ti*:

>From Recalling Ten Epithets to Visualization of Buddha



3:30 pm

Tea Break





4:00 pm

Session 8

*Lewis Doney*, British Museum

Emulating As?oka: Buddhist Kingship in Early Tibetan Historiography



4:30 pm



*Vitus Angermeier*, University of Vienna

Competing Systems? The Seasons in Classical Ayurveda



5:00 pm

Concluding Remarks and Group Picture



6:00 pm

Dinner





Best wishes,
Charles DiSimone, Andrea Schlosser, and Jinkyoung Choi

-- 
Charles DiSimone
Promotionsprogramm Buddhismus-Studien
Institut f?r Indologie und Tibetologie
Ludwig-Maximilians-Universit?t M?nchen


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From mehner at sub.uni-goettingen.de  Fri Sep  9 09:51:49 2016
From: mehner at sub.uni-goettingen.de (Mehner, Maximilian | GRETIL)
Date: Fri, 09 Sep 16 09:51:49 +0000
Subject: [INDOLOGY] GRETIL update #475
Message-ID: <C02B5C9E4F9BD14E998B70B231B092225CEAD52A@UM-EXCDAG-A06.um.gwdg.de>

GRETIL is pleased to be able to report the following addition(s) to its collection:

Somadeva: Kathasaritsagara<http://gretil.sub.uni-goettingen.de/#SomKss>: plain and metrically analysed text
Somadeva: Kathasaritsagara, Vetalapancavimsatika<http://gretil.sub.uni-goettingen.de/#SomKath_Vet>: revised plain text

__________________________________________________________________________
GRETIL - Goettingen Register of Electronic Texts in Indian Languages:
http://gretil.sub.uni-goettingen.de/gretil.htm


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From royce.wiles at gmail.com  Fri Sep  9 12:13:40 2016
From: royce.wiles at gmail.com (Royce Wiles)
Date: Fri, 09 Sep 16 22:13:40 +1000
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Lariviere
In-Reply-To: <CALNcvFvYyBOY02v6UAreRtH4Lngz3kjvC+=tioHDuBb2pd7gyg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <9AFC3594-144A-4D96-A2C8-F5661B8BACC3@gmail.com>

Worldcat tells me

Richard W Lariviere. 1995. Protestants, Orientalists, and Bra?hman?as: reconstructing Indian social history. Amsterdam: Royal Netherlands Academy of Arts and Sciences. (Gonda lecture, 1994). 

18 pages ; 24 cm.

> On 9 Sep 2016, at 19:20, Artur Karp <karp at uw.edu.pl> wrote:
> 
> Dear List, 
> 
> How should I quote Richard Lariviere's 
> 
> Protestants, Orientalists, and Br?hmanas: Reconstructing Indian Social History 
> 
> 
> 
> (source?, place? date: 1994? 1995?, pages?)
> 
> 
> 
> Dzi?kuj? za rad?, 
> 
> 
> 
> Artur Karp
> 
> 
> 
> Poland
> 
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe)



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From kauzeya at gmail.com  Fri Sep  9 12:22:04 2016
From: kauzeya at gmail.com (Jonathan Silk)
Date: Fri, 09 Sep 16 14:22:04 +0200
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Lariviere
In-Reply-To: <9AFC3594-144A-4D96-A2C8-F5661B8BACC3@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAMGmO4LRF0PUMd0VtunESBzKUNHqQ9=y_0qRET6RHrMQCaVfkg@mail.gmail.com>

Most Gonda lectures are online:
https://www.knaw.nl/en/awards/funding/gonda-fund/gonda-lectures

I will try to find out whether there are plans to digitize those that are
not yet available, which unfortunately includes Lariviere's.

Jonathan Silk

On Fri, Sep 9, 2016 at 2:13 PM, Royce Wiles <royce.wiles at gmail.com> wrote:

> Worldcat tells me
>
> Richard W Lariviere. 1995. *Protestants, Orientalists, and Bra?hman?as:
> reconstructing Indian social history*. Amsterdam: Royal Netherlands
> Academy of Arts and Sciences. (Gonda lecture, 1994).
> 18 pages ; 24 cm.
>
> On 9 Sep 2016, at 19:20, Artur Karp <karp at uw.edu.pl> wrote:
>
> Dear List,
>
> How should I quote Richard Lariviere's
>
> *Protestants, Orientalists, and Br?hmanas: Reconstructing Indian Social
> History *
>
>
> (source?, place? date: 1994? 1995?, pages?)
>
>
> Dzi?kuj? za rad?,
>
>
> Artur Karp
>
>
> Poland
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
> committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
> unsubscribe)
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
> committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
> unsubscribe)
>



-- 
J. Silk
Leiden University
Leiden University Institute for Area Studies, LIAS
Matthias de Vrieshof 3, Room 0.05b
2311 BZ Leiden
The Netherlands

copies of my publications may be found at
http://www.buddhismandsocialjustice.com/silk_publications.html


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From mmdesh at umich.edu  Fri Sep  9 12:24:28 2016
From: mmdesh at umich.edu (Madhav Deshpande)
Date: Fri, 09 Sep 16 08:24:28 -0400
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Lariviere
In-Reply-To: <9AFC3594-144A-4D96-A2C8-F5661B8BACC3@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAB3-dzcvsbdH88w2KcvE55gyXONnehs7a=8cOAUX1q_1j5jFSA@mail.gmail.com>

If anyone has a pdf copy, I would like to have it.  Best,

Madhav Deshpande

On Fri, Sep 9, 2016 at 8:13 AM, Royce Wiles <royce.wiles at gmail.com> wrote:

> Worldcat tells me
>
> Richard W Lariviere. 1995. *Protestants, Orientalists, and Bra?hman?as:
> reconstructing Indian social history*. Amsterdam: Royal Netherlands
> Academy of Arts and Sciences. (Gonda lecture, 1994).
> 18 pages ; 24 cm.
>
> On 9 Sep 2016, at 19:20, Artur Karp <karp at uw.edu.pl> wrote:
>
> Dear List,
>
> How should I quote Richard Lariviere's
>
> *Protestants, Orientalists, and Br?hmanas: Reconstructing Indian Social
> History *
>
>
> (source?, place? date: 1994? 1995?, pages?)
>
>
> Dzi?kuj? za rad?,
>
>
> Artur Karp
>
>
> Poland
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
> committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
> unsubscribe)
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
> committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
> unsubscribe)
>


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From hhhock at illinois.edu  Fri Sep  9 14:30:32 2016
From: hhhock at illinois.edu (Hock, Hans Henrich)
Date: Fri, 09 Sep 16 14:30:32 +0000
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Lariviere
In-Reply-To: <CAB3-dzcvsbdH88w2KcvE55gyXONnehs7a=8cOAUX1q_1j5jFSA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <99A88EBA-AD87-4980-9FCF-B99E241A1B7B@illinois.edu>

Like Madhav, I too would like a pdf copy, if available.

Hans Henrich Hock

On 9 Sep 2016, at 07:24, Madhav Deshpande <mmdesh at umich.edu<mailto:mmdesh at umich.edu>> wrote:

If anyone has a pdf copy, I would like to have it.  Best,

Madhav Deshpande

On Fri, Sep 9, 2016 at 8:13 AM, Royce Wiles <royce.wiles at gmail.com<mailto:royce.wiles at gmail.com>> wrote:
Worldcat tells me
Richard W Lariviere. 1995. Protestants, Orientalists, and Bra?hman?as: reconstructing Indian social history. Amsterdam: Royal Netherlands Academy of Arts and Sciences. (Gonda lecture, 1994).
18 pages ; 24 cm.

On 9 Sep 2016, at 19:20, Artur Karp <karp at uw.edu.pl<mailto:karp at uw.edu.pl>> wrote:

Dear List,

How should I quote Richard Lariviere's

Protestants, Orientalists, and Br?hmanas: Reconstructing Indian Social History

(source?, place? date: 1994? 1995?, pages?)

Dzi?kuj? za rad?,

Artur Karp

Poland
_______________________________________________
INDOLOGY mailing list
INDOLOGY at list.indology.info<mailto:INDOLOGY at list.indology.info>
indology-owner at list.indology.info<mailto:indology-owner at list.indology.info> (messages to the list's managing committee)
http://listinfo.indology.info<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__listinfo.indology.info&d=CwMFaQ&c=8hUWFZcy2Z-Za5rBPlktOQ&r=yKOAMu7Fm_W5kv9CXfjbmb6aWTY6BVQCYZ5TKkB486Q&m=OeiHVB65pHnESe2-xl2hrNXN5T1ADnJICf5aRg6dAFY&s=oC8ediAESIT2PQ1K_BuBd0YIm2kX_ybTxsPLiQhzos4&e=> (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe)


_______________________________________________
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INDOLOGY at list.indology.info<mailto:INDOLOGY at list.indology.info>
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INDOLOGY mailing list
INDOLOGY at list.indology.info<mailto:INDOLOGY at list.indology.info>
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From mmdesh at umich.edu  Fri Sep  9 14:32:39 2016
From: mmdesh at umich.edu (Madhav Deshpande)
Date: Fri, 09 Sep 16 10:32:39 -0400
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Lariviere
In-Reply-To: <99A88EBA-AD87-4980-9FCF-B99E241A1B7B@illinois.edu>
Message-ID: <CAB3-dzfsPYiJ2J+m1YP2o_HQFWicyQnakuU7-D1XsXydH0ey5Q@mail.gmail.com>

Steven Lindquist sent me this link:

https://web.archive.org/web/20080517022041/http://asnic.
utexas.edu/asnic/subject/gondalecture.html

Madhav

On Fri, Sep 9, 2016 at 10:30 AM, Hock, Hans Henrich <hhhock at illinois.edu>
wrote:

> Like Madhav, I too would like a pdf copy, if available.
>
> Hans Henrich Hock
>
> On 9 Sep 2016, at 07:24, Madhav Deshpande <mmdesh at umich.edu> wrote:
>
> If anyone has a pdf copy, I would like to have it.  Best,
>
> Madhav Deshpande
>
> On Fri, Sep 9, 2016 at 8:13 AM, Royce Wiles <royce.wiles at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Worldcat tells me
>>
>> Richard W Lariviere. 1995. *Protestants, Orientalists, and Bra?hman?as:
>> reconstructing Indian social history*. Amsterdam: Royal Netherlands
>> Academy of Arts and Sciences. (Gonda lecture, 1994).
>> 18 pages ; 24 cm.
>>
>> On 9 Sep 2016, at 19:20, Artur Karp <karp at uw.edu.pl> wrote:
>>
>> Dear List,
>>
>> How should I quote Richard Lariviere's
>>
>> *Protestants, Orientalists, and Br?hmanas: Reconstructing Indian Social
>> History *
>>
>>
>> (source?, place? date: 1994? 1995?, pages?)
>>
>>
>> Dzi?kuj? za rad?,
>>
>>
>> Artur Karp
>>
>>
>> Poland
>> _______________________________________________
>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
>> committee)
>> http://listinfo.indology.info
>> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__listinfo.indology.info&d=CwMFaQ&c=8hUWFZcy2Z-Za5rBPlktOQ&r=yKOAMu7Fm_W5kv9CXfjbmb6aWTY6BVQCYZ5TKkB486Q&m=OeiHVB65pHnESe2-xl2hrNXN5T1ADnJICf5aRg6dAFY&s=oC8ediAESIT2PQ1K_BuBd0YIm2kX_ybTxsPLiQhzos4&e=>
>> (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe)
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
>> committee)
>> http://listinfo.indology.info
>> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__listinfo.indology.info&d=CwMFaQ&c=8hUWFZcy2Z-Za5rBPlktOQ&r=yKOAMu7Fm_W5kv9CXfjbmb6aWTY6BVQCYZ5TKkB486Q&m=OeiHVB65pHnESe2-xl2hrNXN5T1ADnJICf5aRg6dAFY&s=oC8ediAESIT2PQ1K_BuBd0YIm2kX_ybTxsPLiQhzos4&e=>
>> (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe)
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
> committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
> unsubscribe)
>
>
>


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From hhhock at illinois.edu  Fri Sep  9 14:43:25 2016
From: hhhock at illinois.edu (Hock, Hans Henrich)
Date: Fri, 09 Sep 16 14:43:25 +0000
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Lariviere
In-Reply-To: <CAB3-dzfsPYiJ2J+m1YP2o_HQFWicyQnakuU7-D1XsXydH0ey5Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <B7C2DBCB-37C9-4A9C-A5DE-8A1EAAE5D887@illinois.edu>

Thanks


On 9 Sep 2016, at 09:32, Madhav Deshpande <mmdesh at umich.edu<mailto:mmdesh at umich.edu>> wrote:

Steven Lindquist sent me this link:

https://web.archive.org/web/20080517022041/http://asnic.utexas.edu/asnic/subject/gondalecture.html<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__web.archive.org_web_20080517022041_http-3A__asnic.utexas.edu_asnic_subject_gondalecture.html&d=CwMFaQ&c=8hUWFZcy2Z-Za5rBPlktOQ&r=yKOAMu7Fm_W5kv9CXfjbmb6aWTY6BVQCYZ5TKkB486Q&m=rmT-Ba-FN6oXq27U0oNeMV49M4M5klvcvYNjOCt9GOc&s=C2_qmys3qnp3HwdKul5Z__7l3-zxXvKzwZ0bTy_al-A&e=>

Madhav

On Fri, Sep 9, 2016 at 10:30 AM, Hock, Hans Henrich <hhhock at illinois.edu<mailto:hhhock at illinois.edu>> wrote:
Like Madhav, I too would like a pdf copy, if available.

Hans Henrich Hock

On 9 Sep 2016, at 07:24, Madhav Deshpande <mmdesh at umich.edu<mailto:mmdesh at umich.edu>> wrote:

If anyone has a pdf copy, I would like to have it.  Best,

Madhav Deshpande

On Fri, Sep 9, 2016 at 8:13 AM, Royce Wiles <royce.wiles at gmail.com<mailto:royce.wiles at gmail.com>> wrote:
Worldcat tells me
Richard W Lariviere. 1995. Protestants, Orientalists, and Bra?hman?as: reconstructing Indian social history. Amsterdam: Royal Netherlands Academy of Arts and Sciences. (Gonda lecture, 1994).
18 pages ; 24 cm.

On 9 Sep 2016, at 19:20, Artur Karp <karp at uw.edu.pl<mailto:karp at uw.edu.pl>> wrote:

Dear List,

How should I quote Richard Lariviere's

Protestants, Orientalists, and Br?hmanas: Reconstructing Indian Social History

(source?, place? date: 1994? 1995?, pages?)

Dzi?kuj? za rad?,

Artur Karp

Poland
_______________________________________________
INDOLOGY mailing list
INDOLOGY at list.indology.info<mailto:INDOLOGY at list.indology.info>
indology-owner at list.indology.info<mailto:indology-owner at list.indology.info> (messages to the list's managing committee)
http://listinfo.indology.info<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__listinfo.indology.info&d=CwMFaQ&c=8hUWFZcy2Z-Za5rBPlktOQ&r=yKOAMu7Fm_W5kv9CXfjbmb6aWTY6BVQCYZ5TKkB486Q&m=OeiHVB65pHnESe2-xl2hrNXN5T1ADnJICf5aRg6dAFY&s=oC8ediAESIT2PQ1K_BuBd0YIm2kX_ybTxsPLiQhzos4&e=> (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe)


_______________________________________________
INDOLOGY mailing list
INDOLOGY at list.indology.info<mailto:INDOLOGY at list.indology.info>
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From hspier.muktabodha at gmail.com  Fri Sep  9 14:58:53 2016
From: hspier.muktabodha at gmail.com (Harry Spier)
Date: Fri, 09 Sep 16 10:58:53 -0400
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Lariviere
In-Reply-To: <9AFC3594-144A-4D96-A2C8-F5661B8BACC3@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAPW7aQHaXPOZsJv0nxQmyfu1-44u73Grs_oLBcix1cxdXEoU4g@mail.gmail.com>

I would also like a copy of this article if anyone has one.

Thanks,
Harry Spier

On Fri, Sep 9, 2016 at 8:13 AM, Royce Wiles <royce.wiles at gmail.com> wrote:

> Worldcat tells me
>
> Richard W Lariviere. 1995. *Protestants, Orientalists, and Bra?hman?as:
> reconstructing Indian social history*. Amsterdam: Royal Netherlands
> Academy of Arts and Sciences. (Gonda lecture, 1994).
> 18 pages ; 24 cm.
>
> On 9 Sep 2016, at 19:20, Artur Karp <karp at uw.edu.pl> wrote:
>
> Dear List,
>
> How should I quote Richard Lariviere's
>
> *Protestants, Orientalists, and Br?hmanas: Reconstructing Indian Social
> History *
>
>
> (source?, place? date: 1994? 1995?, pages?)
>
>
> Dzi?kuj? za rad?,
>
>
> Artur Karp
>
>
> Poland
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
> committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
> unsubscribe)
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
> committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
> unsubscribe)
>


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From mkapstei at uchicago.edu  Fri Sep  9 16:31:16 2016
From: mkapstei at uchicago.edu (Matthew Kapstein)
Date: Fri, 09 Sep 16 16:31:16 +0000
Subject: [INDOLOGY] pdf request
Message-ID: <82C3E42590D939418C74DD76B97DDED047BC5133@xm-mbx-06-prod>

Dear Friends,

Might a pdf of Takashi Iwata's Sahopalambhaniyama (1991) be floating about?
The book appears to be now totally unavailable for purchase.

with thanks in advance,
Matthew

Matthew Kapstein
Directeur d'?tudes,
Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes

Numata Visiting Professor of Buddhist Studies,
The University of Chicago


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From Toke.Knudsen at oneonta.edu  Fri Sep  9 17:10:00 2016
From: Toke.Knudsen at oneonta.edu (Toke Knudsen)
Date: Fri, 09 Sep 16 17:10:00 +0000
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Sanskrit material on philosophy of education
In-Reply-To: <6C234623-C051-4181-94D4-E5E75C29526A@oneonta.edu>
Message-ID: <757F251D-8984-4085-9D0F-BF7BD08F63F0@oneonta.edu>

Many thanks to Tracy Coleman, Matthew Kapstein, Judit T?rzs?k, Tim Lubin, and Robert Goldman for the helpful suggestions in regards to my below query. I?ve passed on the information.

All best wishes,
Toke



> On Sep 8, 2016, at 4:11 PM, Toke Knudsen <toke.knudsen at oneonta.edu> wrote:
> 
> Dear all,
> 
> A colleague of mine sent me the following question:
> 
> ?I am teaching a course on education and its objectives. We do a fair bit of philosophy in this course but most of our sources are European. Do you think there are certain Sanskrit treatises (hopefully available in English) which belong in a course on the philosophy of education??
> 
> Would any of you be able to comment on this question?
> 
> Best wishes,
> Toke
> 
> -----
> Toke Lindegaard Knudsen, Ph.D.
> Associate Professor of Mathematics
> Department of Mathematics, Computer Science, and Statistics
> 264 Fitzelle Hall
> State University of New York at Oneonta
> 108 Ravine Parkway
> Oneonta, NY 13820
> USA
> 
> (607) 436-3726 (phone)
> (607) 436-2173 (fax)
> <toke.knudsen at oneonta.edu>
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe)




From karp at uw.edu.pl  Fri Sep  9 18:11:27 2016
From: karp at uw.edu.pl (Artur Karp)
Date: Fri, 09 Sep 16 20:11:27 +0200
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Lariviere
In-Reply-To: <CAPW7aQHaXPOZsJv0nxQmyfu1-44u73Grs_oLBcix1cxdXEoU4g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CALNcvFv9cv-D=T-8Z6Yr7kMYpq-478uc8Wkv4OsTyOwH4RZyNA@mail.gmail.com>

Here it is:

Artur

2016-09-09 16:58 GMT+02:00 Harry Spier <hspier.muktabodha at gmail.com>:

> I would also like a copy of this article if anyone has one.
>
> Thanks,
> Harry Spier
>
> On Fri, Sep 9, 2016 at 8:13 AM, Royce Wiles <royce.wiles at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Worldcat tells me
>>
>> Richard W Lariviere. 1995. *Protestants, Orientalists, and Bra?hman?as:
>> reconstructing Indian social history*. Amsterdam: Royal Netherlands
>> Academy of Arts and Sciences. (Gonda lecture, 1994).
>> 18 pages ; 24 cm.
>>
>> On 9 Sep 2016, at 19:20, Artur Karp <karp at uw.edu.pl> wrote:
>>
>> Dear List,
>>
>> How should I quote Richard Lariviere's
>>
>> *Protestants, Orientalists, and Br?hmanas: Reconstructing Indian Social
>> History *
>>
>>
>> (source?, place? date: 1994? 1995?, pages?)
>>
>>
>> Dzi?kuj? za rad?,
>>
>>
>> Artur Karp
>>
>>
>> Poland
>> _______________________________________________
>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
>> committee)
>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
>> unsubscribe)
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
>> committee)
>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
>> unsubscribe)
>>
>
>


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From mkapstei at uchicago.edu  Fri Sep  9 17:52:16 2016
From: mkapstei at uchicago.edu (Matthew Kapstein)
Date: Fri, 09 Sep 16 17:52:16 +0000
Subject: [INDOLOGY] pdf request
In-Reply-To: <82C3E42590D939418C74DD76B97DDED047BC5133@xm-mbx-06-prod>
Message-ID: <82C3E42590D939418C74DD76B97DDED047BC5170@xm-mbx-06-prod>

Many thanks to Jonathan Silk and Vincent Eltschinger for their rapid replies!

Matthew Kapstein
Directeur d'?tudes,
Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes

Numata Visiting Professor of Buddhist Studies,
The University of Chicago
________________________________



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From jpo at austin.utexas.edu  Fri Sep  9 18:55:20 2016
From: jpo at austin.utexas.edu (Olivelle, J P)
Date: Fri, 09 Sep 16 18:55:20 +0000
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Query
Message-ID: <ED5B6F66-819E-4F7F-9B91-3D9ABE1192CD@austin.utexas.edu>

Dear All:

I hope some of you may be able to refer me to a reliable source for ancient Indian units of volume. Dictionaries and other sources generally give units of length and weight, but not volume. For example, one says an ?a?jali? is the same as a ?prastha?, and under prastha simply says that it is a unit of volume!! I would like to convert some of these into current measurements, such as liter. Thanks.

Patrick




From arlogriffiths at hotmail.com  Sat Sep 10 16:59:18 2016
From: arlogriffiths at hotmail.com (Arlo Griffiths)
Date: Sat, 10 Sep 16 16:59:18 +0000
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Query
In-Reply-To: <ED5B6F66-819E-4F7F-9B91-3D9ABE1192CD@austin.utexas.edu>
Message-ID: <HE1PR0801MB177225CCC00FB56D9A691611A5FD0@HE1PR0801MB1772.eurprd08.prod.outlook.com>


Dear Patrick,


For some useful references, although not for the terms that you mention and without allowing any metric conversion, see this article by Furui:


<https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/journal-of-the-royal-asiatic-society/article/jvikas-maibhadra-and-early-history-of-eastern-bengal-a-new-copperplate-inscription-of-vainyagupta-and-its-implications/402546E37F41B6A9C70414693E17413D>

Ajivikas, Ma?ibhadra and Early History of Eastern Bengal: A New Copperplate Inscription of Vainyagupta and its Implications | Cambridge Core<https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/journal-of-the-royal-asiatic-society/article/jvikas-maibhadra-and-early-history-of-eastern-bengal-a-new-copperplate-inscription-of-vainyagupta-and-its-implications/402546E37F41B6A9C70414693E17413D>
www.cambridge.org
Ajivikas, Ma?ibhadra and Early History of Eastern Bengal: A New Copperplate Inscription of Vainyagupta and its Implications - RYOSUKE FURUI



I believe that one year down the line, the properly paginated version has still not appeared. (Cambridge UP must have better things to do than the serious management of journals.) Also, you may take a look at the following article and the references cited in its bibliography:


Wisseman Christie, Jan. 2004. "Weight and values in the Javanese states of the ninth to thirteenth centuries A. D." In Poids et mesures en Asie du Sud-Est: syst?mes m?trologiques et soci?t?s, 1: L'Asie du Sud-Est austron?sienne et ses marches, edited by Pierre Le Roux, Bernard Sellato, and Jacques Ivanoff, 89-96. ?tudes th?matiques 13. Paris: ?cole fran?aise d'Extr?me-Orient; Institut de Recherche sur le Sud-Est Asiatique.


Perhaps this will lead you somewhere.


Best wishes,

Arlo







________________________________
From: INDOLOGY <indology-bounces at list.indology.info> on behalf of Olivelle, J P <jpo at austin.utexas.edu>
Sent: Friday, September 9, 2016 6:55:20 PM
To: indology
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Query

Dear All:

I hope some of you may be able to refer me to a reliable source for ancient Indian units of volume. Dictionaries and other sources generally give units of length and weight, but not volume. For example, one says an "a?jali" is the same as a "prastha", and under prastha simply says that it is a unit of volume!! I would like to convert some of these into current measurements, such as liter. Thanks.

Patrick
_______________________________________________
INDOLOGY mailing list
INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee)
http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe)
INDOLOGY Info Page<http://listinfo.indology.info/>
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INDOLOGY is an internet discussion group whose primary purpose is to provide a forum for discussion among professional scholars of classical Indian (South Asian ...



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From franco at uni-leipzig.de  Sun Sep 11 11:50:01 2016
From: franco at uni-leipzig.de (Eli Franco)
Date: Sun, 11 Sep 16 13:50:01 +0200
Subject: =?utf-8?Q?[INDOLOGY]_Help_with_a_pdf:_The_Genesis_of_Yog=C4=81c=C4=81ra-Vij=C3=B1=C4=81nav=C4=81da?=
In-Reply-To: <A6880EBD-85FB-45F7-83AD-68509A53B0A1@unm.edu>
Message-ID: <20160911135001.Horde.ujSGTV9VQN8wLXg8fpRdaw1@mail.uni-leipzig.de>


Dear friends and colleagues,
Would anyone have a pdf file of Schmithausen's The Genesis of  
Yog?c?ra-Vij??nav?da?
Best wishes,
Eli

-- 
Prof. Dr. Eli Franco
Institut f?r Indologie und Zentralasienwissenschaften
Schillerstr. 6
04109 Leipzig

Ph. +49 341 9737 121, 9737 120 (dept. office)
Fax +49 341 9737 148







From mailmealakendudas at rediffmail.com  Sun Sep 11 12:14:58 2016
From: mailmealakendudas at rediffmail.com (alakendu das)
Date: Sun, 11 Sep 16 12:14:58 +0000
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Etymology and meaning of 'Jhana'
Message-ID: <20160911121458.8339.qmail@f4mail-235-121.rediffmail.com>



 Of late I am vividly going through a very old translation of a book on Abhidhamma Buddhist philosophy .It is difficult to gather the name of the translator.However,in course of the book I came across an analysis found in the book 'VishuddhiMagga'by BuddhaGhosha  which uses a term 'Jhana'while describing the  3 -levels of consciousness .Jhana has been used while elaborating on the 2nd level of consciousness ,where the Yogachara( i.e the bhikhhu who delves into Yoga) meditates on an object abd finally attains Jhana. 



                               Can anybody enlighten on the implication of the term Jhana and it's etymology.



                                                     ALAKENDU DAS.


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From karp at uw.edu.pl  Sun Sep 11 12:31:01 2016
From: karp at uw.edu.pl (Artur Karp)
Date: Sun, 11 Sep 16 14:31:01 +0200
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Etymology and meaning of 'Jhana'
In-Reply-To: <20160911121458.8339.qmail@f4mail-235-121.rediffmail.com>
Message-ID: <CALNcvFtAOD3F_2hsaAGj0Wg2CbmU9YcGZv8ev8VazF+wx_=+HA@mail.gmail.com>

See please:

R. L. Turner's *A Comparative Dictionary of Indo-Aryan Languages*, London
1966,

*6889 *(p. 395)

dhy?na? n. ?meditation? Ch Up. [?dhyai]

Pa. jh?na? n ?contemplation?, Pk. jh??a ? n.


Best,


Artur Karp

2016-09-11 14:14 GMT+02:00 alakendu das <mailmealakendudas at rediffmail.com>:

>
> Of late I am vividly going through a very old translation of a book on
> Abhidhamma Buddhist philosophy .It is difficult to gather the name of the
> translator.However,in course of the book I came across an analysis found in
> the book 'VishuddhiMagga'by BuddhaGhosha which uses a term 'Jhana'while
> describing the 3 -levels of consciousness .Jhana has been used while
> elaborating on the 2nd level of consciousness ,where the Yogachara( i.e the
> bhikhhu who delves into Yoga) meditates on an object abd finally attains
> Jhana.
>
> Can anybody enlighten on the implication of the term Jhana and it's
> etymology.
>
> ALAKENDU DAS.
>
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
> committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
> unsubscribe)
>


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From eastwestcultural at yahoo.com  Sun Sep 11 14:54:34 2016
From: eastwestcultural at yahoo.com (Dean Michael Anderson)
Date: Sun, 11 Sep 16 14:54:34 +0000
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Etymology and meaning of 'Jhana'
In-Reply-To: <1589063092.488088.1473605636650@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1151361248.493146.1473605674902@mail.yahoo.com>




?Right concentration? consists of one-pointedness ofmind, the mind focusing unwaveringly on a single object, whichcan be taken to the point where one attains successively the fourdhyanas (Pali: jhanas), the four ?meditations? or, in this context,perhaps ?absorptions?.?
These dhyanas are said to take themeditator outside, as it were, the desire realm (kamadhatu) inwhich we humans normally live, and to pertain to the realm of(pure) form, the rupadhatu.?
The first and lowest of the dhyanasis characterised (in the standard scheme) as involving appliedthought, examination, joy, happiness, and one-pointedness ofmind.?
The second dhyana has the same features apart from theapplied thought and examination, which are no longerexperientially present and have dropped away.?
The third hashappiness and one-pointedness, and the fourth possesses justone-pointedness and equanimity.12 To quote from Peter Harvey:
The fourth jhana is a state of profound stillness and peace,in which the mind rests with unshakeable one-pointednessand equanimity, and breathing has calmed to the point ofstopping. The mind has a radiant purity, due to its ?brightlyshining? depths having been uncovered and made manifest atthe surface level. It is said to be very ?workable? and?adaptable? like refined gold, which can be used to make allmanner of precious and wonderful things. It is thus an idealtake-off point for various further developments. Indeed itseems to have been the state from which the Buddha wenton to attain enlightenment.(Harvey 1990:250?2)
The four dhyanas are also spoken of as being realms into whichone can be reborn as certain types of gods, thus bringing togethercosmological realms and mental transformation in an interestingway which shows a blending of ?outer? cosmology and ?inner?psychology on these rarefied levels of Buddhist experience.
Page 55
Williams, Paul,and Anthony Tribe. 2000. Buddhist Thought: A Complete Introduction to theIndian Tradition. London?; New York: Routledge.

      From: alakendu das <mailmealakendudas at rediffmail.com>
 To: indology at list.indology.info 
 Sent: Sunday, September 11, 2016 5:44 PM
 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Etymology and meaning of 'Jhana'
  

 Of late I am vividly going through a very old translation of a book on Abhidhamma Buddhist philosophy .It is difficult to gather the name of the translator.However,in course of the book I came across an analysis found in the book 'VishuddhiMagga'by BuddhaGhosha which uses a term 'Jhana'while describing the 3 -levels of consciousness .Jhana has been used while elaborating on the 2nd level of consciousness ,where the Yogachara( i.e the bhikhhu who delves into Yoga) meditates on an object abd finally attains Jhana. 

 Can anybody enlighten on the implication of the term Jhana and it's etymology.

 ALAKENDU DAS.

_______________________________________________
INDOLOGY mailing list
INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee)
http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe)

   

   


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From nicole.karapanagiotis at gmail.com  Sun Sep 11 15:58:05 2016
From: nicole.karapanagiotis at gmail.com (Nicole Karapanagiotis)
Date: Sun, 11 Sep 16 11:58:05 -0400
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Finding two Puranic slokas
In-Reply-To: <CAP_RTBAX-ex49VO1ayZup4UR+Zb1JR9UYTCQahuAcV1QjHf2hA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAHm51TiTc2j53xPqJ-rTj9mA7zWt305-jj5FJJ1-7m1nm41LOg@mail.gmail.com>

Thanks, David.  I had the Sanskrit, but the text references were very
helpful--thanks so much for your reply. Cheers!

Nicole

On Thu, Sep 8, 2016 at 10:04 PM, Buchta, David <david_buchta at brown.edu>
wrote:

> Hi Nicole,
>
> For what it's worth, the Sanskrit for the Padma Pur??a-attributed verse
> you are looking for is (with variants found in p?da b):
> n?ha? vas?mi vaiku??he na yogi-h?daye?u v? |
> mad-bhakt? yatra g?yanti tatra ti??h?mi n?rada //
>
> It is quoted often by Gau??ya Vai??ava authors: In Gop?la Bha??a
> Gosv?min's Haribhaktivil?sa (8.284) and J?va Gosv?min's *Bhaktisandarbha *(under
> pariccheda 269). Both cite specifically the K?rttikam?h?tmya.
>
> I hope this helps.
>
> Best,
> David
>
> --
> David Buchta
> Lecturer in Sanskrit
> Department of Classics
> Brown University
>
> On Thu, Sep 8, 2016 at 12:13 PM, Nicole Karapanagiotis <
> nicole.karapanagiotis at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Dear friends,
>>
>> I am looking for sloka references for the following two Puranic ideas as
>> I want to go back to the original texts.
>>
>> 1.  Padma Purana sloka which translates to "I dwell not in Vaikuntha, nor
>> in the heart of yogis, but where my devotees sing."  Anyone know the exact
>> reference for this one?
>>
>> 2.  Naradiya Purana wherein it states that chanting loudly is much
>> greater than chanting in silence...
>>
>> Thank you--any leads are much appreciated!
>>
>> Nicole Karapanagiotis
>>
>> --
>> Dr. Nicole Karapanagiotis, Ph.D.
>> Asst. Professor of Religion
>> Rutgers, The State University of New Jersey
>> Department of Philosophy and Religion
>> Camden College of Arts and Sciences
>> 429 Cooper St., Room #303
>> Camden, NJ 08102
>> nicole.karapanagiotis at rutgers.edu
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
>> committee)
>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
>> unsubscribe)
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
> committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
> unsubscribe)
>



-- 
Dr. Nicole Karapanagiotis, Ph.D.
Asst. Professor of Religion
Rutgers, The State University of New Jersey
Department of Philosophy and Religion
Camden College of Arts and Sciences
429 Cooper St., Room #303
Camden, NJ 08102
nicole.karapanagiotis at rutgers.edu


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From nmisra at gmail.com  Sun Sep 11 16:48:02 2016
From: nmisra at gmail.com (Nityanand Misra)
Date: Sun, 11 Sep 16 22:18:02 +0530
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Etymology and meaning of 'Jhana'
In-Reply-To: <20160911121458.8339.qmail@f4mail-235-121.rediffmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAATk=rCMKs60ALMv=S5eZTrmdfiq-_k5pE2mtpLqW3AKPAS4hw@mail.gmail.com>

The *Pr?k?taprak??a* has the rule (8.25)

??h?-dhy?-g?n?? ?h??a-jh??a-g????
(????-????-????? ???-???-????)

which explains Sanskrit dhy? changing to jh??a. Hence

dhy?yanti -> jh?anti
dhy?na -> jh??a

The *Abhidh?nar?jendra?* has a rather long entry under *jh??a*. It also
derives the word from *dhy?na *and cites the rule *s?dhyasadhyahy??
jha?* instead,
which I believe is from Hemacandra's grammar.

Hope this helps, Nityananda


On 11 September 2016 at 17:44, alakendu das <
mailmealakendudas at rediffmail.com> wrote:

>
> Of late I am vividly going through a very old translation of a book on
> Abhidhamma Buddhist philosophy .It is difficult to gather the name of the
> translator.However,in course of the book I came across an analysis found in
> the book 'VishuddhiMagga'by BuddhaGhosha which uses a term 'Jhana'while
> describing the 3 -levels of consciousness .Jhana has been used while
> elaborating on the 2nd level of consciousness ,where the Yogachara( i.e the
> bhikhhu who delves into Yoga) meditates on an object abd finally attains
> Jhana.
>
> Can anybody enlighten on the implication of the term Jhana and it's
> etymology.
>
> ALAKENDU DAS.
>
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
> committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
> unsubscribe)
>



-- 
Nity?nanda Mi?ra
http://nmisra.googlepages.com


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From karp at uw.edu.pl  Sun Sep 11 18:41:35 2016
From: karp at uw.edu.pl (Artur Karp)
Date: Sun, 11 Sep 16 20:41:35 +0200
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Two terms
Message-ID: <CALNcvFs=gqt-QoKi2JUoRT9Z1P+AvyBBBgi+9BmHDZH-mp+nTQ@mail.gmail.com>

 Dear List,

Two unclear terms: am not sure of their meaning

1st, sanskrit: *yak?i *

(*yak?i* o?u?sv?h?j?p? vidyaya? g?ru?? par? /
garu?okta? g?ru?a? hi ???u rudra ! mad?tmakam // GarP_1,2.59 //


2nd, pali: *v??asa?gh??ayanta*

appearing in *Sumangalavilasini,* Buddhaghosa's commentary to
*Mahaparinibbanasutta*:

Sakko deva-r?j? Vissakamma? ?mantetv?: ?T?ta Aj?tasattun? dh?tu-nidh?nika?
kata?, ettha ?rakkha? ?hapeh? ?ti pahi?i. So ?gantv? *v??a?sa?gh??a?yanta?*
yojesi. Ka??ha?r?pak?ni tasmi? dh?tu?gabbhe pha?ika?va??a?khagge gahetv?,
vata?sadisena Vegeta anupariyanta? yanta? yojetv? [?]


Your help would be greatly appreciated,


Z g?ry dzi?kuj?,


Artur Karp (ret.)

Chair of South Asian Studies

University of Warsaw

Poland


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From jknutson at hawaii.edu  Sun Sep 11 20:49:56 2016
From: jknutson at hawaii.edu (Jesse Knutson)
Date: Sun, 11 Sep 16 10:49:56 -1000
Subject: =?utf-8?B?W0lORE9MT0dZXSDgpJzgpKjgpY3gpK7gpKTgpYsg4KSc4KS+4KSv4KSk4KWHIOCktuClguCkpuCljeCksOCkgw==?=
Message-ID: <CAAiVBEU3WZ4OPj_5kqyLoBtCKkfUjEnPQg3QDQFf48709N0BDQ@mail.gmail.com>

Dear Indologists and Friends, A friend and colleague, Ramdas Lamb, has
drawn my attention to, and asked me about the source, of a half-verse,
which he has heard quoted a lot in Ramanandi circles in India.  He is doing
some very interesting ethnographic work on the evolution of this order, and
told me about several inter-caste, Vedic ???????s they have recently
established, incorporating sometimes even dalits, women, and adivasis.  I
have a feeling one of you knows the source. Thanks for your time. ??????,J

?????? ????? ?????? ??????????????? ??????

-- 
Jesse Ross Knutson PhD
Assistant Professor of Sanskrit and Bengali, Department of Indo-Pacific
Languages and Literatures
University of Hawai'i at M?noa
461 Spalding


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From jknutson at hawaii.edu  Sun Sep 11 20:58:46 2016
From: jknutson at hawaii.edu (Jesse Knutson)
Date: Sun, 11 Sep 16 10:58:46 -1000
Subject: =?utf-8?B?UmU6IFtJTkRPTE9HWV0J4KSc4KSo4KWN4KSu4KSk4KWLIOCknOCkvuCkr+CkpOClhyDgpLbgpYLgpKbgpY3gpLDgpIM=?=
In-Reply-To: <CAAiVBEU3WZ4OPj_5kqyLoBtCKkfUjEnPQg3QDQFf48709N0BDQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAAiVBEX=LgzAGG13TPinfOX2qG6qhok6Y+Vi+H7JC3Ycxy+fmw@mail.gmail.com>

p.s. It just occured to me that though the verse is appropriated for, and
quoted in support of an anti-caste position by the Ramandandis, it probably
comes from a thoroughly brahmanical source, since really all it says is
that the sa?sk?ra is necessary to become a dvija, which is a tautology from
a brahmanical point of view. Far less radical on its own than the Buddha's
remarks about brahmins.

On Sun, Sep 11, 2016 at 10:49 AM, Jesse Knutson <jknutson at hawaii.edu> wrote:

> Dear Indologists and Friends, A friend and colleague, Ramdas Lamb, has
> drawn my attention to, and asked me about the source, of a half-verse,
> which he has heard quoted a lot in Ramanandi circles in India.  He is doing
> some very interesting ethnographic work on the evolution of this order, and
> told me about several inter-caste, Vedic ???????s they have recently
> established, incorporating sometimes even dalits, women, and adivasis.  I
> have a feeling one of you knows the source. Thanks for your time. ??????,J
>
> ?????? ????? ?????? ??????????????? ??????
>
> --
> Jesse Ross Knutson PhD
> Assistant Professor of Sanskrit and Bengali, Department of Indo-Pacific
> Languages and Literatures
> University of Hawai'i at M?noa
> 461 Spalding
>



-- 
Jesse Ross Knutson PhD
Assistant Professor of Sanskrit and Bengali, Department of Indo-Pacific
Languages and Literatures
University of Hawai'i at M?noa
461 Spalding


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From hspier.muktabodha at gmail.com  Sun Sep 11 21:56:01 2016
From: hspier.muktabodha at gmail.com (Harry Spier)
Date: Sun, 11 Sep 16 17:56:01 -0400
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Source of verse to gajanAna
Message-ID: <CAPW7aQEOx+R_0X2RKQAqutnYW7pR-89TCJX1J7iOG5MzUSimEg@mail.gmail.com>

Dear list members,

I need the source to the well known verse to gajAnana

kul?la??stra

gaj?nana? bh?taga??dhi sevita?

kapittha jamb?phalas?ra bhak?itam |

um?suta? ?okavin??ak?ra?a?

nam?mi vighne?vara p?dapa?kajam ||

A search of the Muktabodha and GRETIL digital libraries only turned up this
version  in a tantric text kul?la??stra

gaj?nana? bh?taga??dhi sevita?

kapittha jamb?phalas?ra bhak?itam |

um?suta? ?okavin??ak?ra?a?

nam?mi vighne?vara p?dapa?kajam ||

Thanks,
Harry Spier


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From hspier.muktabodha at gmail.com  Sun Sep 11 22:02:56 2016
From: hspier.muktabodha at gmail.com (Harry Spier)
Date: Sun, 11 Sep 16 18:02:56 -0400
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Source of verse to gajanAna
In-Reply-To: <CAPW7aQEOx+R_0X2RKQAqutnYW7pR-89TCJX1J7iOG5MzUSimEg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAPW7aQEc64T_xX_AjNerHxpsiuZzROf=0RRjANg8guL=17R+Yg@mail.gmail.com>

CORRECTION i MEANT TO SAY

I need the source of the well known verse to gajAnana

gaj?nana? bh?taga??disevita?

kapitthajamb?phalac?rubhak?anam

um?suta? ?okavin??akaraka?

nam?mi vighne?varap?dapa?kajam

In a search of the GRETIL and Muktabodha digital libraries I was only able
to find this variation in a tantric text kul?la??stra

gaj?nana? bh?taga??dhi sevita?

kapittha jamb?phalas?ra bhak?itam |

um?suta? ?okavin??ak?ra?a?

nam?mi vighne?vara p?dapa?kajam ||

Thank you,
Harry Spier




On Sun, Sep 11, 2016 at 5:56 PM, Harry Spier <hspier.muktabodha at gmail.com>
wrote:

> Dear list members,
>
> I need the source to the well known verse to gajAnana
>
> kul?la??stra
>
> gaj?nana? bh?taga??dhi sevita?
>
> kapittha jamb?phalas?ra bhak?itam |
>
> um?suta? ?okavin??ak?ra?a?
>
> nam?mi vighne?vara p?dapa?kajam ||
>
> A search of the Muktabodha and GRETIL digital libraries only turned up
> this version  in a tantric text kul?la??stra
>
> gaj?nana? bh?taga??dhi sevita?
>
> kapittha jamb?phalas?ra bhak?itam |
>
> um?suta? ?okavin??ak?ra?a?
>
> nam?mi vighne?vara p?dapa?kajam ||
>
> Thanks,
> Harry Spier
>
>


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From wujastyk at gmail.com  Mon Sep 12 01:28:39 2016
From: wujastyk at gmail.com (Dominik Wujastyk)
Date: Sun, 11 Sep 16 19:28:39 -0600
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Etymology and meaning of 'Jhana'
In-Reply-To: <CAATk=rCMKs60ALMv=S5eZTrmdfiq-_k5pE2mtpLqW3AKPAS4hw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAKdt-CdwpHV2Q9YOrMyDnkpgSKi2=9kR3Lc0sugaP9y-a4Wj9g@mail.gmail.com>

It may seem a quibble, but isn't the
*?Pr?k?taprak??a*'s author making an assertion, not giving an explanation?
To me, at least, there's an important difference.

--
Professor Dominik Wujastyk* <http://ualberta.academia.edu/DominikWujastyk>
Singhmar Chair in Classical Indian Society and Polity
Department of History and Classics <http://historyandclassics.ualberta.ca/>
University of Alberta, Canada

<https://mail.google.com/mail/u/0/goog_1525257691>
?sas.ualberta.ca?


On 11 September 2016 at 10:48, Nityanand Misra <nmisra at gmail.com> wrote:

> The
> *??Pr?k?taprak??a* has the rule (8.25)
>
> ??h?-dhy?-g?n?? ?h??a-jh??a-g????
> (????-????-????? ???-???-????)
>
> which explains Sanskrit dhy? changing to jh??a. Hence
>
> dhy?yanti -> jh?anti
> dhy?na -> jh??a
>
> The *Abhidh?nar?jendra?* has a rather long entry under *jh??a*. It also
> derives the word from *dhy?na *and cites the rule *s?dhyasadhyahy?? jha?* instead,
> which I believe is from Hemacandra's grammar.
>
> Hope this helps, Nityananda
>
>
> On 11 September 2016 at 17:44, alakendu das <mailmealakendudas at rediffmail.
> com> wrote:
>
>>
>> Of late I am vividly going through a very old translation of a book on
>> Abhidhamma Buddhist philosophy .It is difficult to gather the name of the
>> translator.However,in course of the book I came across an analysis found in
>> the book 'VishuddhiMagga'by BuddhaGhosha which uses a term 'Jhana'while
>> describing the 3 -levels of consciousness .Jhana has been used while
>> elaborating on the 2nd level of consciousness ,where the Yogachara( i.e the
>> bhikhhu who delves into Yoga) meditates on an object abd finally attains
>> Jhana.
>>
>> Can anybody enlighten on the implication of the term Jhana and it's
>> etymology.
>>
>> ALAKENDU DAS.
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
>> committee)
>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
>> unsubscribe)
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Nity?nanda Mi?ra
> http://nmisra.googlepages.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
> committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
> unsubscribe)
>


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From Michael.Slouber at wwu.edu  Mon Sep 12 03:24:53 2016
From: Michael.Slouber at wwu.edu (Michael Slouber)
Date: Mon, 12 Sep 16 03:24:53 +0000
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Source of verse to gajanAna
In-Reply-To: <CAPW7aQEc64T_xX_AjNerHxpsiuZzROf=0RRjANg8guL=17R+Yg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <8176076D-3917-402A-B2B6-240280C921F7@wwu.edu>

This verse is the ma?gala?loka of the Jyoti?a text B?hatp?r??arahor???stra, although one always has to wonder if such verses were added to manuscripts by later hands.

??
Michael Slouber
Assistant Professor of South Asia
Department of Liberal Studies
Western Washington University



On ???? ?????????? ??, at ?:?? ?????????, Harry Spier <hspier.muktabodha at gmail.com<mailto:hspier.muktabodha at gmail.com>> wrote:

CORRECTION i MEANT TO SAY

I need the source of the well known verse to gajAnana

gaj?nana? bh?taga??disevita?

kapitthajamb?phalac?rubhak?anam

um?suta? ?okavin??akaraka?

nam?mi vighne?varap?dapa?kajam

In a search of the GRETIL and Muktabodha digital libraries I was only able to find this variation in a tantric text kul?la??stra

gaj?nana? bh?taga??dhi sevita?

kapittha jamb?phalas?ra bhak?itam |

um?suta? ?okavin??ak?ra?a?

nam?mi vighne?vara p?dapa?kajam ||

Thank you,
Harry Spier




On Sun, Sep 11, 2016 at 5:56 PM, Harry Spier <hspier.muktabodha at gmail.com<mailto:hspier.muktabodha at gmail.com>> wrote:
Dear list members,

I need the source to the well known verse to gajAnana

kul?la??stra

gaj?nana? bh?taga??dhi sevita?

kapittha jamb?phalas?ra bhak?itam |

um?suta? ?okavin??ak?ra?a?

nam?mi vighne?vara p?dapa?kajam ||

A search of the Muktabodha and GRETIL digital libraries only turned up this version  in a tantric text kul?la??stra

gaj?nana? bh?taga??dhi sevita?

kapittha jamb?phalas?ra bhak?itam |

um?suta? ?okavin??ak?ra?a?

nam?mi vighne?vara p?dapa?kajam ||

Thanks,
Harry Spier


_______________________________________________
INDOLOGY mailing list
INDOLOGY at list.indology.info<mailto:INDOLOGY at list.indology.info>
indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee)
http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe)



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From karp at uw.edu.pl  Mon Sep 12 05:04:29 2016
From: karp at uw.edu.pl (Artur Karp)
Date: Mon, 12 Sep 16 07:04:29 +0200
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Two terms
In-Reply-To: <CALNcvFs=gqt-QoKi2JUoRT9Z1P+AvyBBBgi+9BmHDZH-mp+nTQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CALNcvFt4yWm2hvLoR52LWccYZ938Sc9tg5Cp0mHSpV1J7f=wLw@mail.gmail.com>

My computer decided that *vata*?sadisena *Vegeta* sounds better than *v*
*?ta*-sadisena *vegena*.

Victory of *Zlata Bartl *(the Croatian inventor of* Vegeta*) over
*Buddhaghosa*.

Artur

2016-09-11 20:41 GMT+02:00 Artur Karp <karp at uw.edu.pl>:

>  Dear List,
>
> Two unclear terms: am not sure of their meaning
>
> 1st, sanskrit: *yak?i *
>
> (*yak?i* o?u?sv?h?j?p? vidyaya? g?ru?? par? /
> garu?okta? g?ru?a? hi ???u rudra ! mad?tmakam // GarP_1,2.59 //
>
>
> 2nd, pali: *v??asa?gh??ayanta*
>
> appearing in *Sumangalavilasini,* Buddhaghosa's commentary to
> *Mahaparinibbanasutta*:
>
> Sakko deva-r?j? Vissakamma? ?mantetv?: ?T?ta Aj?tasattun? dh?tu-nidh?nika?
> kata?, ettha ?rakkha? ?hapeh? ?ti pahi?i. So ?gantv?
> *v??a?sa?gh??a?yanta?* yojesi. Ka??ha?r?pak?ni tasmi? dh?tu?gabbhe
> pha?ika?va??a?khagge gahetv?, vata?sadisena Vegeta anupariyanta? yanta?
> yojetv? [?]
>
>
> Your help would be greatly appreciated,
>
>
> Z g?ry dzi?kuj?,
>
>
> Artur Karp (ret.)
>
> Chair of South Asian Studies
>
> University of Warsaw
>
> Poland
>
>


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From SamuelG at cardiff.ac.uk  Mon Sep 12 05:28:20 2016
From: SamuelG at cardiff.ac.uk (Geoffrey Samuel)
Date: Mon, 12 Sep 16 05:28:20 +0000
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Etymology and meaning of 'Jhana'
In-Reply-To: <CAKdt-CdwpHV2Q9YOrMyDnkpgSKi2=9kR3Lc0sugaP9y-a4Wj9g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <DB6PR0201MB2134DA1BA7AC4C03AF586FB7FFFF0@DB6PR0201MB2134.eurprd02.prod.outlook.com>

See Lance Cousins (1973), Buddhist Jhana: Its Nature and Attainment according to the Pali Sources. Religion 3 (1973) 115-31.

<http://iastam.org/><http://www.bodyhealthreligion.org.uk/BAHAR/>

Geoffrey
________________________________
From: INDOLOGY <indology-bounces at list.indology.info> on behalf of Dominik Wujastyk <wujastyk at gmail.com>
Sent: 12 September 2016 02:28
To: Nityanand Misra
Cc: Indology
Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] Etymology and meaning of 'Jhana'

It may seem a quibble, but isn't the
Prak?taprakasa's author making an assertion, not giving an explanation?  To me, at least, there's an important difference.

--
Professor Dominik Wujastyk*<http://ualberta.academia.edu/DominikWujastyk>
Singhmar Chair in Classical Indian Society and Polity
Department of History and Classics<http://historyandclassics.ualberta.ca/>
University of Alberta, Canada

<https://mail.google.com/mail/u/0/goog_1525257691>
sas.ualberta.ca<http://sas.ualberta.ca/>


On 11 September 2016 at 10:48, Nityanand Misra <nmisra at gmail.com<mailto:nmisra at gmail.com>> wrote:
The
Prak?taprakasa has the rule (8.25)

??ha-dhya-gana? ?ha?a-jha?a-ga?a?
(????-????-????? ???-???-????)

which explains Sanskrit dhya changing to jha?a. Hence

dhyayanti -> jhaanti
dhyana -> jha?a

The Abhidhanarajendra? has a rather long entry under jha?a. It also derives the word from dhyana and cites the rule sadhyasadhyahya? jha? instead, which I believe is from Hemacandra's grammar.

Hope this helps, Nityananda


On 11 September 2016 at 17:44, alakendu das <mailmealakendudas at rediffmail.com<mailto:mailmealakendudas at rediffmail.com>> wrote:

Of late I am vividly going through a very old translation of a book on Abhidhamma Buddhist philosophy .It is difficult to gather the name of the translator.However,in course of the book I came across an analysis found in the book 'VishuddhiMagga'by BuddhaGhosha which uses a term 'Jhana'while describing the 3 -levels of consciousness .Jhana has been used while elaborating on the 2nd level of consciousness ,where the Yogachara( i.e the bhikhhu who delves into Yoga) meditates on an object abd finally attains Jhana.

Can anybody enlighten on the implication of the term Jhana and it's etymology.

ALAKENDU DAS.

_______________________________________________
INDOLOGY mailing list
INDOLOGY at list.indology.info<mailto:INDOLOGY at list.indology.info>
indology-owner at list.indology.info<mailto:indology-owner at list.indology.info> (messages to the list's managing committee)
http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe)



--
Nityananda Misra
http://nmisra.googlepages.com


_______________________________________________
INDOLOGY mailing list
INDOLOGY at list.indology.info<mailto:INDOLOGY at list.indology.info>
indology-owner at list.indology.info<mailto:indology-owner at list.indology.info> (messages to the list's managing committee)
http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe)



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From Michael.Slouber at wwu.edu  Mon Sep 12 06:01:59 2016
From: Michael.Slouber at wwu.edu (Michael Slouber)
Date: Mon, 12 Sep 16 06:01:59 +0000
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Two terms
In-Reply-To: <CALNcvFs=gqt-QoKi2JUoRT9Z1P+AvyBBBgi+9BmHDZH-mp+nTQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1F8BF5DE-61BD-48E7-8E5A-4870C855DFEA@wwu.edu>

The Garu?a Pur??a is corrupt here.  The verse should start ?pak?i o? sv?h?" which is the famous five-syllable mantra of Garu?a.

??
Michael Slouber
Assistant Professor of South Asia
Department of Liberal Studies
Western Washington University


On ???? ?????????? ??, at ??:?? ?????????, Artur Karp <karp at uw.edu.pl<mailto:karp at uw.edu.pl>> wrote:

 Dear List,

Two unclear terms: am not sure of their meaning

1st, sanskrit: yak?i

(yak?i o?u?sv?h?j?p? vidyaya? g?ru?? par? /
garu?okta? g?ru?a? hi ???u rudra ! mad?tmakam // GarP_1,2.59 //


2nd, pali: v??asa?gh??ayanta

appearing in Sumangalavilasini, Buddhaghosa's commentary to Mahaparinibbanasutta:

Sakko deva-r?j? Vissakamma? ?mantetv?: ?T?ta Aj?tasattun? dh?tu-nidh?nika? kata?, ettha ?rakkha? ?hapeh? ?ti pahi?i. So ?gantv? v??a?sa?gh??a?yanta? yojesi. Ka??ha?r?pak?ni tasmi? dh?tu?gabbhe pha?ika?va??a?khagge gahetv?, vata?sadisena Vegeta anupariyanta? yanta? yojetv? [?]

Your help would be greatly appreciated,

Z g?ry dzi?kuj?,

Artur Karp (ret.)
Chair of South Asian Studies
University of Warsaw
Poland

_______________________________________________
INDOLOGY mailing list
INDOLOGY at list.indology.info<mailto:INDOLOGY at list.indology.info>
indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee)
http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe)



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From karp at uw.edu.pl  Mon Sep 12 07:21:43 2016
From: karp at uw.edu.pl (Artur Karp)
Date: Mon, 12 Sep 16 09:21:43 +0200
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Two terms
In-Reply-To: <1F8BF5DE-61BD-48E7-8E5A-4870C855DFEA@wwu.edu>
Message-ID: <CALNcvFuXWQh8nKF=itct0Xgn+rZ9iabOtO7SH1+m9e=tKRJWaw@mail.gmail.com>

Dear Michael,


DCS - Digital Corpus of Sanskrit notes two separate verses:

GarPur, 1, 2, 59.2
<http://kjc-sv013.kjc.uni-heidelberg.de/dcs/index.php?contents=texte&PhraseID=431156>
 *yak?i *o?u?sv?h?j?p? vidyaya? g?ru?? par? /

and

GarPur, 1, 19, 20.2
<http://kjc-sv013.kjc.uni-heidelberg.de/dcs/index.php?contents=texte&PhraseID=432877>
 o? *pak?i* sv?h? //

Sanskrit text (published by Chowkhamba Vidyabhavan, ed. by Shri Ramtej
Pandey) retains both, *yak?i *and *pak?i*.

Different contexts, though. *yak?i mantra *seems to be related to reviving
burnt beings, *pak?i mantra - *to curing from poisoning (relationship
between Garuda and serpents is obvious in this case).

Is the text really corrupt? I have my doubts.

Artur

2016-09-12 8:01 GMT+02:00 Michael Slouber <Michael.Slouber at wwu.edu>:

> The Garu?a Pur??a is corrupt here.  The verse should start ?pak?i o?
> sv?h?" which is the famous five-syllable mantra of Garu?a.
>
> ??
> Michael Slouber
> Assistant Professor of South Asia
> Department of Liberal Studies
> Western Washington University
>
>
> On ???? ?????????? ??, at ??:?? ?????????, Artur Karp <karp at uw.edu.pl>
> wrote:
>
>  Dear List,
>
> Two unclear terms: am not sure of their meaning
>
> 1st, sanskrit: *yak?i *
>
> (*yak?i* o?u?sv?h?j?p? vidyaya? g?ru?? par? /
> garu?okta? g?ru?a? hi ???u rudra ! mad?tmakam // GarP_1,2.59 //
>
>
> 2nd, pali: *v??asa?gh??ayanta*
>
> appearing in *Sumangalavilasini,* Buddhaghosa's commentary to
> *Mahaparinibbanasutta*:
>
> Sakko deva-r?j? Vissakamma? ?mantetv?: ?T?ta Aj?tasattun? dh?tu-nidh?nika?
> kata?, ettha ?rakkha? ?hapeh? ?ti pahi?i. So ?gantv?
> *v??a?sa?gh??a?yanta?* yojesi. Ka??ha?r?pak?ni tasmi? dh?tu?gabbhe
> pha?ika?va??a?khagge gahetv?, vata?sadisena Vegeta anupariyanta? yanta?
> yojetv? [?]
>
>
> Your help would be greatly appreciated,
>
>
> Z g?ry dzi?kuj?,
>
>
> Artur Karp (ret.)
>
> Chair of South Asian Studies
>
> University of Warsaw
>
> Poland
>
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
> committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
> unsubscribe)
>
>
>


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From mmdesh at umich.edu  Mon Sep 12 10:58:54 2016
From: mmdesh at umich.edu (Madhav Deshpande)
Date: Mon, 12 Sep 16 06:58:54 -0400
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Two terms
In-Reply-To: <CALNcvFuXWQh8nKF=itct0Xgn+rZ9iabOtO7SH1+m9e=tKRJWaw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAB3-dzdN1HfLbbEQD=6JiF3PMHs8yT23hO-_WZDAsmE403onkQ@mail.gmail.com>

The word v??a in v??a-sa?gh??a-yanta is most likely Skt. Vy?la referring to
a tiger or lion.  See if that makes sense in this context.

Madhav Deshpande

On Mon, Sep 12, 2016 at 3:21 AM, Artur Karp <karp at uw.edu.pl> wrote:

> Dear Michael,
>
>
> DCS - Digital Corpus of Sanskrit notes two separate verses:
>
> GarPur, 1, 2, 59.2
> <http://kjc-sv013.kjc.uni-heidelberg.de/dcs/index.php?contents=texte&PhraseID=431156>
>  *yak?i *o?u?sv?h?j?p? vidyaya? g?ru?? par? /
>
> and
>
> GarPur, 1, 19, 20.2
> <http://kjc-sv013.kjc.uni-heidelberg.de/dcs/index.php?contents=texte&PhraseID=432877>
>  o? *pak?i* sv?h? //
>
> Sanskrit text (published by Chowkhamba Vidyabhavan, ed. by Shri Ramtej
> Pandey) retains both, *yak?i *and *pak?i*.
>
> Different contexts, though. *yak?i mantra *seems to be related to
> reviving burnt beings, *pak?i mantra - *to curing from poisoning
> (relationship between Garuda and serpents is obvious in this case).
>
> Is the text really corrupt? I have my doubts.
>
> Artur
>
> 2016-09-12 8:01 GMT+02:00 Michael Slouber <Michael.Slouber at wwu.edu>:
>
>> The Garu?a Pur??a is corrupt here.  The verse should start ?pak?i o?
>> sv?h?" which is the famous five-syllable mantra of Garu?a.
>>
>> ??
>> Michael Slouber
>> Assistant Professor of South Asia
>> Department of Liberal Studies
>> Western Washington University
>>
>>
>> On ???? ?????????? ??, at ??:?? ?????????, Artur Karp <karp at uw.edu.pl>
>> wrote:
>>
>>  Dear List,
>>
>> Two unclear terms: am not sure of their meaning
>>
>> 1st, sanskrit: *yak?i *
>>
>> (*yak?i* o?u?sv?h?j?p? vidyaya? g?ru?? par? /
>> garu?okta? g?ru?a? hi ???u rudra ! mad?tmakam // GarP_1,2.59 //
>>
>>
>> 2nd, pali: *v??asa?gh??ayanta*
>>
>> appearing in *Sumangalavilasini,* Buddhaghosa's commentary to
>> *Mahaparinibbanasutta*:
>>
>> Sakko deva-r?j? Vissakamma? ?mantetv?: ?T?ta Aj?tasattun?
>> dh?tu-nidh?nika? kata?, ettha ?rakkha? ?hapeh? ?ti pahi?i. So ?gantv?
>> *v??a?sa?gh??a?yanta?* yojesi. Ka??ha?r?pak?ni tasmi? dh?tu?gabbhe
>> pha?ika?va??a?khagge gahetv?, vata?sadisena Vegeta anupariyanta? yanta?
>> yojetv? [?]
>>
>>
>> Your help would be greatly appreciated,
>>
>>
>> Z g?ry dzi?kuj?,
>>
>>
>> Artur Karp (ret.)
>>
>> Chair of South Asian Studies
>>
>> University of Warsaw
>>
>> Poland
>>
>> _______________________________________________
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>> committee)
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>> unsubscribe)
>>
>>
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
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From karp at uw.edu.pl  Mon Sep 12 12:24:05 2016
From: karp at uw.edu.pl (Artur Karp)
Date: Mon, 12 Sep 16 14:24:05 +0200
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Two terms
In-Reply-To: <CAB3-dzdN1HfLbbEQD=6JiF3PMHs8yT23hO-_WZDAsmE403onkQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CALNcvFu9W8u_4YmMRMiLrYnj9Ag5yDgjHwcS++x82ZG7hqS-gA@mail.gmail.com>

Dear Madhav,

The PTS,s Pali-English Dict.:

*V??a* - [cp. late Sk. vy??a, see Geiger, *P. Gr*. ? 54?] I. a snake Vism
312 (so read for *va?a*).- 2. a beast of prey [...] *v??a-miga*, a beast of
prey, predaceous animal, like tiger, leopard, etc. [...]

When in search for the Elixir of immortality Garuda enters the underworld,
he kills *two serpents* hidden under the [eternally] revolving wheel. (Mbh.
I, 29. 3-9).

When the relics of the Buddha are hidden by Ajatasattu in the underground
chamber, Vissakamma places over them, for their defence the [eternally]
revolving *v??a?sa?gh??a?yanta.*

If *v??a* would mean "snake, serpent", then this could be one of the tropes
linking both the narrations.

*Yanta *means "contrivance, artifice, instrument, machine, mechanism" - in
what way could it be constructed/pegged together - using serpents? Ataching
it to serpents? Giving it a serpentine look?

Artur


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From mmdesh at umich.edu  Mon Sep 12 12:29:25 2016
From: mmdesh at umich.edu (Madhav Deshpande)
Date: Mon, 12 Sep 16 08:29:25 -0400
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Two terms
In-Reply-To: <CALNcvFu9W8u_4YmMRMiLrYnj9Ag5yDgjHwcS++x82ZG7hqS-gA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAB3-dzcP7cqgBWiQdw4gJc4ndt6zO5ToALUtL=1U5bN9NGP3sA@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Artur,

     It probably refers to some contraption surrounded by a host of
serpents.  Serpents as guardians of hidden underground treasures is a
reasonably common idea in Indian literature.

Madhav

On Mon, Sep 12, 2016 at 8:24 AM, Artur Karp <karp at uw.edu.pl> wrote:

> Dear Madhav,
>
> The PTS,s Pali-English Dict.:
>
> *V??a* - [cp. late Sk. vy??a, see Geiger, *P. Gr*. ? 54?] I. a snake Vism
> 312 (so read for *va?a*).- 2. a beast of prey [...] *v??a-miga*, a beast
> of prey, predaceous animal, like tiger, leopard, etc. [...]
>
> When in search for the Elixir of immortality Garuda enters the underworld,
> he kills *two serpents* hidden under the [eternally] revolving wheel.
> (Mbh. I, 29. 3-9).
>
> When the relics of the Buddha are hidden by Ajatasattu in the underground
> chamber, Vissakamma places over them, for their defence the [eternally]
> revolving *v??a?sa?gh??a?yanta.*
>
> If *v??a* would mean "snake, serpent", then this could be one of the
> tropes linking both the narrations.
>
> *Yanta *means "contrivance, artifice, instrument, machine, mechanism" -
> in what way could it be constructed/pegged together - using serpents?
> Ataching it to serpents? Giving it a serpentine look?
>
> Artur
>


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From karp at uw.edu.pl  Mon Sep 12 12:32:29 2016
From: karp at uw.edu.pl (Artur Karp)
Date: Mon, 12 Sep 16 14:32:29 +0200
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Two terms
In-Reply-To: <CAB3-dzcP7cqgBWiQdw4gJc4ndt6zO5ToALUtL=1U5bN9NGP3sA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CALNcvFvY8XsAdN-c0wpVVpsp8iNWcxUfktoWRhbHcOb3vRZihg@mail.gmail.com>

> contraption

:)

any image of ?

2016-09-12 14:29 GMT+02:00 Madhav Deshpande <mmdesh at umich.edu>:

> Hi Artur,
>
>      It probably refers to some contraption surrounded by a host of
> serpents.  Serpents as guardians of hidden underground treasures is a
> reasonably common idea in Indian literature.
>
> Madhav
>
> On Mon, Sep 12, 2016 at 8:24 AM, Artur Karp <karp at uw.edu.pl> wrote:
>
>> Dear Madhav,
>>
>> The PTS,s Pali-English Dict.:
>>
>> *V??a* - [cp. late Sk. vy??a, see Geiger, *P. Gr*. ? 54?] I. a snake
>> Vism 312 (so read for *va?a*).- 2. a beast of prey [...] *v??a-miga*, a
>> beast of prey, predaceous animal, like tiger, leopard, etc. [...]
>>
>> When in search for the Elixir of immortality Garuda enters the
>> underworld, he kills *two serpents* hidden under the [eternally]
>> revolving wheel. (Mbh. I, 29. 3-9).
>>
>> When the relics of the Buddha are hidden by Ajatasattu in the underground
>> chamber, Vissakamma places over them, for their defence the [eternally]
>> revolving *v??a?sa?gh??a?yanta.*
>>
>> If *v??a* would mean "snake, serpent", then this could be one of the
>> tropes linking both the narrations.
>>
>> *Yanta *means "contrivance, artifice, instrument, machine, mechanism" -
>> in what way could it be constructed/pegged together - using serpents?
>> Ataching it to serpents? Giving it a serpentine look?
>>
>> Artur
>>
>
>


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From mmdesh at umich.edu  Mon Sep 12 12:42:20 2016
From: mmdesh at umich.edu (Madhav Deshpande)
Date: Mon, 12 Sep 16 08:42:20 -0400
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Two terms
In-Reply-To: <CALNcvFvY8XsAdN-c0wpVVpsp8iNWcxUfktoWRhbHcOb3vRZihg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAB3-dzeWzuZf=ZGpx_bPgk-Zj6OVijViyJKBa65hCzy6jzJoUA@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Artur,

     I checked Google Images for "Nagayantra", and there are several
interesting diagrams and designs for such Yantras, some of which are
evidently found in Thai Buddhist temples.  Here is a link:

http://www.sak-yant.com/archive/108yant/payanakarach/yantpayanakarach.jpg

Madhav

On Mon, Sep 12, 2016 at 8:32 AM, Artur Karp <karp at uw.edu.pl> wrote:

> > contraption
>
> :)
>
> any image of ?
>
> 2016-09-12 14:29 GMT+02:00 Madhav Deshpande <mmdesh at umich.edu>:
>
>> Hi Artur,
>>
>>      It probably refers to some contraption surrounded by a host of
>> serpents.  Serpents as guardians of hidden underground treasures is a
>> reasonably common idea in Indian literature.
>>
>> Madhav
>>
>> On Mon, Sep 12, 2016 at 8:24 AM, Artur Karp <karp at uw.edu.pl> wrote:
>>
>>> Dear Madhav,
>>>
>>> The PTS,s Pali-English Dict.:
>>>
>>> *V??a* - [cp. late Sk. vy??a, see Geiger, *P. Gr*. ? 54?] I. a snake
>>> Vism 312 (so read for *va?a*).- 2. a beast of prey [...] *v??a-miga*, a
>>> beast of prey, predaceous animal, like tiger, leopard, etc. [...]
>>>
>>> When in search for the Elixir of immortality Garuda enters the
>>> underworld, he kills *two serpents* hidden under the [eternally]
>>> revolving wheel. (Mbh. I, 29. 3-9).
>>>
>>> When the relics of the Buddha are hidden by Ajatasattu in the
>>> underground chamber, Vissakamma places over them, for their defence the
>>> [eternally] revolving *v??a?sa?gh??a?yanta.*
>>>
>>> If *v??a* would mean "snake, serpent", then this could be one of the
>>> tropes linking both the narrations.
>>>
>>> *Yanta *means "contrivance, artifice, instrument, machine, mechanism" -
>>> in what way could it be constructed/pegged together - using serpents?
>>> Ataching it to serpents? Giving it a serpentine look?
>>>
>>> Artur
>>>
>>
>>
>


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From skarashima at gmail.com  Mon Sep 12 13:03:08 2016
From: skarashima at gmail.com (Seishi Karashima)
Date: Mon, 12 Sep 16 22:03:08 +0900
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Two terms
Message-ID: <CAEd5L8hBzxQq-uFRR+GMU5b+whSZcCzv34Y3Ss5gX=FqhQ6FPA@mail.gmail.com>

Dear colleagues,

Almost identical passages are found in the *Th?pava?sa*: *The chronicle of
the Th?pa and the Th?pava?sa: Being a Translation and Edition of
V?cissaratthera?s Th?pava?sa*, by N.A. Jayawickrama, London 1971: Luzac
(Sacred Books of the Buddhists / Pali Text Society, v. 28; Unesco
Collection of Representative Works), pp. 182f.


Jayawickrama translated the passages in question as follows:


Sakka, the king of the deities addressed Vissakamma: 'Ajatasattu, my dear,
has done the enshrining of the relics ; you provide protection there', and
despatched him. He came and set up *a contraption with a number of figures
of ferocious animals* and setting up inside the relic chamber (another
contraption) which made the wooden figures bearing crystal coloured swords
revolve with the speed of the wind, he had it all joined to one pin, had a
rampart of granite in the form of a 'brick-hall' 6 built, and having it
covered on top with a single (stone-slab) had earth thrown in and the
ground levelled and had a granite thiipa established upon it. (*ibid. *p.
46).


Cf. also *D?ghanik?ya??hakath???k? L?natthava??an?*, ed. Lily De Silva,
London 1970: Luzac, vol. 2, p. 246, ll. 14ff. *v??asa?gh?tayantan ti
**kakkhala?
pa?ibhayadassana? a??ama??apa?ib{h}addhagaman?dit?ya sa?gh??ita?
r?pakayanta?** yojesi. ten? ?ha ?ka??har?pak?n??ti ?di*.


With best regards,

Seishi Karashima

2016-09-12 21:42 GMT+09:00 Madhav Deshpande <mmdesh at umich.edu>:

> Hi Artur,
>
>      I checked Google Images for "Nagayantra", and there are several
> interesting diagrams and designs for such Yantras, some of which are
> evidently found in Thai Buddhist temples.  Here is a link:
>
> http://www.sak-yant.com/archive/108yant/payanakarach/yantpayanakarach.jpg
>
> Madhav
>
> On Mon, Sep 12, 2016 at 8:32 AM, Artur Karp <karp at uw.edu.pl> wrote:
>
>> > contraption
>>
>> :)
>>
>> any image of ?
>>
>> 2016-09-12 14:29 GMT+02:00 Madhav Deshpande <mmdesh at umich.edu>:
>>
>>> Hi Artur,
>>>
>>>      It probably refers to some contraption surrounded by a host of
>>> serpents.  Serpents as guardians of hidden underground treasures is a
>>> reasonably common idea in Indian literature.
>>>
>>> Madhav
>>>
>>> On Mon, Sep 12, 2016 at 8:24 AM, Artur Karp <karp at uw.edu.pl> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Dear Madhav,
>>>>
>>>> The PTS,s Pali-English Dict.:
>>>>
>>>> *V??a* - [cp. late Sk. vy??a, see Geiger, *P. Gr*. ? 54?] I. a snake
>>>> Vism 312 (so read for *va?a*).- 2. a beast of prey [...] *v??a-miga*,
>>>> a beast of prey, predaceous animal, like tiger, leopard, etc. [...]
>>>>
>>>> When in search for the Elixir of immortality Garuda enters the
>>>> underworld, he kills *two serpents* hidden under the [eternally]
>>>> revolving wheel. (Mbh. I, 29. 3-9).
>>>>
>>>> When the relics of the Buddha are hidden by Ajatasattu in the
>>>> underground chamber, Vissakamma places over them, for their defence the
>>>> [eternally] revolving *v??a?sa?gh??a?yanta.*
>>>>
>>>> If *v??a* would mean "snake, serpent", then this could be one of the
>>>> tropes linking both the narrations.
>>>>
>>>> *Yanta *means "contrivance, artifice, instrument, machine, mechanism"
>>>> - in what way could it be constructed/pegged together - using serpents?
>>>> Ataching it to serpents? Giving it a serpentine look?
>>>>
>>>> Artur
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
> committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
> unsubscribe)
>


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From arlogriffiths at hotmail.com  Mon Sep 12 13:08:38 2016
From: arlogriffiths at hotmail.com (Arlo Griffiths)
Date: Mon, 12 Sep 16 13:08:38 +0000
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Mercury and quicksilver
Message-ID: <HE1PR0801MB1772655F248D6FCA3E4483D6A5FF0@HE1PR0801MB1772.eurprd08.prod.outlook.com>

Dear colleagues,


Does 'quicksilver/mercury' (the liquid metal) ever get called 'Mercury' (the planet) in Sanskrit, or is this homonymy only a feature of European languages?


I ask because I am wondering whether baudha can mean 'related to quicksilver' and be a designation of mercury gilding. Apropos, does anyone known technical designations of mercury gilding in Sanskrit?


Thank you.


Arlo Griffiths




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From karp at uw.edu.pl  Mon Sep 12 15:03:41 2016
From: karp at uw.edu.pl (Artur Karp)
Date: Mon, 12 Sep 16 17:03:41 +0200
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Mercury and quicksilver
In-Reply-To: <HE1PR0801MB1772655F248D6FCA3E4483D6A5FF0@HE1PR0801MB1772.eurprd08.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <CALNcvFuafkXKXwVtjLtitOPLjEYnt0mD__gv5=z9Brb6LFJmZg@mail.gmail.com>

Dear Arlo,

Have you consulted *A Concise History of Science in India * (Bose, Sen,
Subbarayappa, eds, Indian National Science Academy, New Delhi 1971 pp.
318-324 ?

Artur Karp

PS. Just in case - I have a pdf of this work,


2016-09-12 15:08 GMT+02:00 Arlo Griffiths <arlogriffiths at hotmail.com>:

> Dear colleagues,
>
>
> Does 'quicksilver/mercury' (the liquid metal) ever get called 'Mercury'
> (the planet) in Sanskrit, or is this homonymy only a feature of European
> languages?
>
>
> I ask because I am wondering whether baudha can mean 'related to
> quicksilver' and be a designation of mercury gilding. Apropos, does anyone
> known technical designations of mercury gilding in Sanskrit?
>
>
> Thank you.
>
>
> Arlo Griffiths
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
> committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
> unsubscribe)
>


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From mark.mcclish at northwestern.edu  Mon Sep 12 15:15:22 2016
From: mark.mcclish at northwestern.edu (Mark McClish)
Date: Mon, 12 Sep 16 15:15:22 +0000
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Query (Olivelle, J P)
In-Reply-To: <mailman.46.1473523223.10806.indology_list.indology.info@list.indology.info>
Message-ID: <CB4F98D6-111C-4E01-8497-66A9292EE737@northwestern.edu>

Patrick,

A detailed overview of measurement units is given in Srinivasan?s Mensuration in Ancient India (1979 Ajanta Publications). I believe it is on DLI. He draws from a variety of sources and gives conversions.

Best,
Mark


From: "Olivelle, J P" <jpo at austin.utexas.edu<mailto:jpo at austin.utexas.edu>>
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Query
Date: September 9, 2016 at 1:55:20 PM CDT
To: indology <indology at list.indology.info<mailto:indology at list.indology.info>>


Dear All:

I hope some of you may be able to refer me to a reliable source for ancient Indian units of volume. Dictionaries and other sources generally give units of length and weight, but not volume. For example, one says an ?a?jali? is the same as a ?prastha?, and under prastha simply says that it is a unit of volume!! I would like to convert some of these into current measurements, such as liter. Thanks.

Patrick

_______________________________________________
INDOLOGY mailing list
INDOLOGY at list.indology.info<mailto:INDOLOGY at list.indology.info>
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From rolfheiner.koch at gmail.com  Mon Sep 12 15:19:27 2016
From: rolfheiner.koch at gmail.com (Rolf Heinrich Koch)
Date: Mon, 12 Sep 16 17:19:27 +0200
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Two terms
In-Reply-To: <CAEd5L8hBzxQq-uFRR+GMU5b+whSZcCzv34Y3Ss5gX=FqhQ6FPA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <91b35ad1-bd34-3821-656e-a59d4882c24b@gmail.com>

I am just working on Sinhalese sources of the Buddhacarita.

Regarding /v??asa?gh?tayantan t/he Sinhala Th?pava?saya reads:


"daruva, Aj?ta?atru rajjuruvan visin dh?tu nidh?naya karavana lada, topi 
da ??a sudusu ?rak??vak karav" yi kiya.
e bas ?s? Vi?vakam divyaputra avut vy?lar?pa yukta yantrayak yod? da??in 
ne?? karana lada d?payan dh?tu garbhayehi ?v??a puhupat ka?ugena 
v?nav?gayak h? sam?na v?gayen sis?r? divann? v?
yantrayak mav?,...

Sinhala Th?pava?saya (2007) p. 109sq.

Best

Heiner


www.rolfheinrichkoch.wordpress.com


Am 12.09.2016 um 15:03 schrieb Seishi Karashima:
> Dear colleagues,
>
> Almost identical passages are found in the /Th?pava?sa/: /The 
> chronicle of the Th?pa and the Th?pava?sa: Being a Translation and 
> Edition of V?cissaratthera?s Th?pava?sa/, by N.A. Jayawickrama, London 
> 1971: Luzac (Sacred Books of the Buddhists / Pali Text Society, v. 28; 
> Unesco Collection of Representative Works), pp. 182f.
>
>
> Jayawickrama translated the passages in question as follows:
>
>
> Sakka, the king of the deities addressed Vissakamma: 'Ajatasattu, my 
> dear, has done the enshrining of the relics ; you provide protection 
> there', and despatched him. He came and set up *a contraption with a 
> number of figures of ferocious animals* and setting up inside the 
> relic chamber (another contraption) which made the wooden figures 
> bearing crystal coloured swords revolve with the speed of the wind, he 
> had it all joined to one pin, had a rampart of granite in the form of 
> a 'brick-hall' 6 built, and having it covered on top with a single 
> (stone-slab) had earth thrown in and the ground levelled and had a 
> granite thiipa established upon it. (/ibid. /p. 46).
>
>
> Cf. also /D?ghanik?ya??hakath???k? L?natthava??an?/, ed. Lily De 
> Silva, London 1970: Luzac, vol. 2, p. 246, ll. 14ff. 
> /v??asa?gh?tayantan ti //kakkhala? pa?ibhayadassana? 
> a??ama??apa?ib{h}addhagaman?dit?ya sa?gh??ita? r?pakayanta?//yojesi. 
> ten? ?ha ?ka??har?pak?n??ti ?di/.
>
>
> With best regards,
>
> Seishi Karashima
>
>
> 2016-09-12 21:42 GMT+09:00 Madhav Deshpande <mmdesh at umich.edu 
> <mailto:mmdesh at umich.edu>>:
>
>     Hi Artur,
>
>          I checked Google Images for "Nagayantra", and there are
>     several interesting diagrams and designs for such Yantras, some of
>     which are evidently found in Thai Buddhist temples.  Here is a link:
>
>     http://www.sak-yant.com/archive/108yant/payanakarach/yantpayanakarach.jpg
>     <http://www.sak-yant.com/archive/108yant/payanakarach/yantpayanakarach.jpg>
>
>     Madhav
>
>     On Mon, Sep 12, 2016 at 8:32 AM, Artur Karp <karp at uw.edu.pl
>     <mailto:karp at uw.edu.pl>> wrote:
>
>         > contraption
>
>         :)
>
>         any image of ?
>
>         2016-09-12 14:29 GMT+02:00 Madhav Deshpande <mmdesh at umich.edu
>         <mailto:mmdesh at umich.edu>>:
>
>             Hi Artur,
>
>                  It probably refers to some contraption surrounded by
>             a host of serpents.  Serpents as guardians of hidden
>             underground treasures is a reasonably common idea in
>             Indian literature.
>
>             Madhav
>
>             On Mon, Sep 12, 2016 at 8:24 AM, Artur Karp
>             <karp at uw.edu.pl <mailto:karp at uw.edu.pl>> wrote:
>
>                 Dear Madhav,
>
>                 The PTS,s Pali-English Dict.:
>
>                 *V??a* - [cp. late Sk. vy??a, see Geiger, /P. Gr/. ?
>                 54?] I. a snake Vism 312 (so read for *va?a*).- 2. a
>                 beast of prey [...] *v??a-miga*, a beast of prey,
>                 predaceous animal, like tiger, leopard, etc. [...]
>
>                 When in search for the Elixir of immortality Garuda
>                 enters the underworld, he kills *two serpents* hidden
>                 under the [eternally] revolving wheel. (Mbh. I, 29. 3-9).
>
>                 When the relics of the Buddha are hidden by Ajatasattu
>                 in the underground chamber, Vissakamma places over
>                 them, for their defence the [eternally] revolving
>                 *v??a?sa?gh??a?yanta.*
>                 *
>                 *
>                 If *v??a* would mean "snake, serpent", then this could
>                 be one of the tropes linking both the narrations.
>
>                 *Yanta *means "contrivance, artifice, instrument,
>                 machine, mechanism" - in what way could it be
>                 constructed/pegged together - using serpents? Ataching
>                 it to serpents? Giving it a serpentine look?
>
>                 Artur
>
>
>
>
>
>     _______________________________________________
>     INDOLOGY mailing list
>     INDOLOGY at list.indology.info <mailto:INDOLOGY at list.indology.info>
>     indology-owner at list.indology.info
>     <mailto:indology-owner at list.indology.info> (messages to the list's
>     managing committee)
>     http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list
>     options or unsubscribe)
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe)



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From karp at uw.edu.pl  Mon Sep 12 16:40:42 2016
From: karp at uw.edu.pl (Artur Karp)
Date: Mon, 12 Sep 16 18:40:42 +0200
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Two terms
In-Reply-To: <91b35ad1-bd34-3821-656e-a59d4882c24b@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CALNcvFs8dZS=_KmgYyqP7DB4Zva9ZupK7Qgd658vXe88nUV=bw@mail.gmail.com>

Dear Heiner,

I do follow Pali, but have problems with Sinhalese; just helter-skelter.

Could you please translate?

(Can be into Polish :) )

Dzi?ki,

Artur

2016-09-12 17:19 GMT+02:00 Rolf Heinrich Koch <rolfheiner.koch at gmail.com>:

> I am just working on Sinhalese sources of the Buddhacarita.
>
> Regarding *v??asa?gh?tayantan t*he Sinhala Th?pava?saya reads:
>
>
> "daruva, Aj?ta?atru rajjuruvan visin dh?tu nidh?naya karavana lada, topi
> da ??a sudusu ?rak??vak karav" yi kiya.
> e bas ?s? Vi?vakam divyaputra avut vy?lar?pa yukta yantrayak yod? da??in
> ne?? karana lada d?payan dh?tu garbhayehi ?v??a puhupat ka?ugena
> v?nav?gayak h? sam?na v?gayen sis?r? divann? v?
> yantrayak mav?,...
>
> Sinhala Th?pava?saya (2007) p. 109sq.
>
> Best
>
> Heiner
>
>
> www.rolfheinrichkoch.wordpress.com
>
> Am 12.09.2016 um 15:03 schrieb Seishi Karashima:
>
> Dear colleagues,
>
> Almost identical passages are found in the *Th?pava?sa*: *The chronicle
> of the Th?pa and the Th?pava?sa: Being a Translation and Edition of
> V?cissaratthera?s Th?pava?sa*, by N.A. Jayawickrama, London 1971: Luzac
> (Sacred Books of the Buddhists / Pali Text Society, v. 28; Unesco
> Collection of Representative Works), pp. 182f.
>
>
> Jayawickrama translated the passages in question as follows:
>
>
> Sakka, the king of the deities addressed Vissakamma: 'Ajatasattu, my dear,
> has done the enshrining of the relics ; you provide protection there', and
> despatched him. He came and set up *a contraption with a number of
> figures of ferocious animals* and setting up inside the relic chamber
> (another contraption) which made the wooden figures bearing crystal
> coloured swords revolve with the speed of the wind, he had it all joined
> to one pin, had a rampart of granite in the form of a 'brick-hall' 6 built,
> and having it covered on top with a single (stone-slab) had earth thrown in
> and the ground levelled and had a granite thiipa established upon it. (*ibid.
> *p. 46).
>
>
> Cf. also *D?ghanik?ya??hakath???k? L?natthava??an?*, ed. Lily De Silva,
> London 1970: Luzac, vol. 2, p. 246, ll. 14ff. *v??asa?gh?tayantan ti **kakkhala?
> pa?ibhayadassana? a??ama??apa?ib{h}addhagaman?dit?ya sa?gh??ita?
> r?pakayanta?** yojesi. ten? ?ha ?ka??har?pak?n??ti ?di*.
>
>
> With best regards,
>
> Seishi Karashima
>
> 2016-09-12 21:42 GMT+09:00 Madhav Deshpande <mmdesh at umich.edu>:
>
>> Hi Artur,
>>
>>      I checked Google Images for "Nagayantra", and there are several
>> interesting diagrams and designs for such Yantras, some of which are
>> evidently found in Thai Buddhist temples.  Here is a link:
>>
>> http://www.sak-yant.com/archive/108yant/payanakarach/yantpayanakarach.jpg
>>
>> Madhav
>>
>> On Mon, Sep 12, 2016 at 8:32 AM, Artur Karp < <karp at uw.edu.pl>
>> karp at uw.edu.pl> wrote:
>>
>>> > contraption
>>>
>>> :)
>>>
>>> any image of ?
>>>
>>> 2016-09-12 14:29 GMT+02:00 Madhav Deshpande < <mmdesh at umich.edu>
>>> mmdesh at umich.edu>:
>>>
>>>> Hi Artur,
>>>>
>>>>      It probably refers to some contraption surrounded by a host of
>>>> serpents.  Serpents as guardians of hidden underground treasures is a
>>>> reasonably common idea in Indian literature.
>>>>
>>>> Madhav
>>>>
>>>> On Mon, Sep 12, 2016 at 8:24 AM, Artur Karp < <karp at uw.edu.pl>
>>>> karp at uw.edu.pl> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Dear Madhav,
>>>>>
>>>>> The PTS,s Pali-English Dict.:
>>>>>
>>>>> *V??a* - [cp. late Sk. vy??a, see Geiger, *P. Gr*. ? 54?] I. a snake
>>>>> Vism 312 (so read for *va?a*).- 2. a beast of prey [...] *v??a-miga*,
>>>>> a beast of prey, predaceous animal, like tiger, leopard, etc. [...]
>>>>>
>>>>> When in search for the Elixir of immortality Garuda enters the
>>>>> underworld, he kills *two serpents* hidden under the [eternally]
>>>>> revolving wheel. (Mbh. I, 29. 3-9).
>>>>>
>>>>> When the relics of the Buddha are hidden by Ajatasattu in the
>>>>> underground chamber, Vissakamma places over them, for their defence the
>>>>> [eternally] revolving *v??a?sa?gh??a?yanta.*
>>>>>
>>>>> If *v??a* would mean "snake, serpent", then this could be one of the
>>>>> tropes linking both the narrations.
>>>>>
>>>>> *Yanta *means "contrivance, artifice, instrument, machine, mechanism"
>>>>> - in what way could it be constructed/pegged together - using serpents?
>>>>> Ataching it to serpents? Giving it a serpentine look?
>>>>>
>>>>> Artur
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
>> committee)
>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
>> unsubscribe)
>>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing listINDOLOGY at list.indology.infoindology-owner@list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee)http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe)
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
> committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
> unsubscribe)
>


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From martin.gansten at pbhome.se  Mon Sep 12 19:26:32 2016
From: martin.gansten at pbhome.se (Martin Gansten)
Date: Mon, 12 Sep 16 21:26:32 +0200
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Double sandhi
Message-ID: <c7e09d2c-adae-257e-e391-e87b0ec18569@pbhome.se>

I seem to recall having read a discussion on instances of irregular, 
double sandhi (as in, say, /vartate idam > vartata idam > vartatedam/) 
on the Indology list, but I can't find it in the list archives. If 
anyone could point me either to the old posts (assuming that they exist 
outside my imagination) or to some useful discussion of the phenomenon 
(does it occur and, if so, where; how is it regarded, etc), I should be 
most grateful.

Martin Gansten



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From rolfheiner.koch at gmail.com  Mon Sep 12 19:35:35 2016
From: rolfheiner.koch at gmail.com (Rolf Heinrich Koch)
Date: Mon, 12 Sep 16 21:35:35 +0200
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Two terms
In-Reply-To: <CALNcvFs8dZS=_KmgYyqP7DB4Zva9ZupK7Qgd658vXe88nUV=bw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <72e83581-1558-e3e5-4afd-5e8cee8c5c38@gmail.com>

Dear Artur

Sorry, I can not.

But I am sure there a translations of the Sinhala Th?pava?saya somewhere 
available. Berkwitz is one scholar who translated this text.

Best

Heiner


Am 12.09.2016 um 18:40 schrieb Artur Karp:
> Dear Heiner,
>
> I do follow Pali, but have problems with Sinhalese; just helter-skelter.
>
> Could you please translate?
>
> (Can be into Polish :) )
>
> Dzi?ki,
>
> Artur
>
> 2016-09-12 17:19 GMT+02:00 Rolf Heinrich Koch 
> <rolfheiner.koch at gmail.com <mailto:rolfheiner.koch at gmail.com>>:
>
>     I am just working on Sinhalese sources of the Buddhacarita.
>
>     Regarding /v??asa?gh?tayantan t/he Sinhala Th?pava?saya reads:
>
>
>     "daruva, Aj?ta?atru rajjuruvan visin dh?tu nidh?naya karavana
>     lada, topi da ??a sudusu ?rak??vak karav" yi kiya.
>     e bas ?s? Vi?vakam divyaputra avut vy?lar?pa yukta yantrayak yod?
>     da??in ne?? karana lada d?payan dh?tu garbhayehi ?v??a puhupat
>     ka?ugena v?nav?gayak h? sam?na v?gayen sis?r? divann? v?
>     yantrayak mav?,...
>
>     Sinhala Th?pava?saya (2007) p. 109sq.
>
>     Best
>
>     Heiner
>
>
>     www.rolfheinrichkoch.wordpress.com
>     <http://www.rolfheinrichkoch.wordpress.com>
>
>
>     Am 12.09.2016 um 15:03 schrieb Seishi Karashima:
>>     Dear colleagues,
>>
>>     Almost identical passages are found in the /Th?pava?sa/: /The
>>     chronicle of the Th?pa and the Th?pava?sa: Being a Translation
>>     and Edition of V?cissaratthera?s Th?pava?sa/, by N.A.
>>     Jayawickrama, London 1971: Luzac (Sacred Books of the Buddhists /
>>     Pali Text Society, v. 28; Unesco Collection of Representative
>>     Works), pp. 182f.
>>
>>
>>     Jayawickrama translated the passages in question as follows:
>>
>>
>>     Sakka, the king of the deities addressed Vissakamma: 'Ajatasattu,
>>     my dear, has done the enshrining of the relics ; you provide
>>     protection there', and despatched him. He came and set up *a
>>     contraption with a number of figures of ferocious animals* and
>>     setting up inside the relic chamber (another contraption) which
>>     made the wooden figures bearing crystal coloured swords revolve
>>     with the speed of the wind, he had it all joined to one pin, had
>>     a rampart of granite in the form of a 'brick-hall' 6 built, and
>>     having it covered on top with a single (stone-slab) had earth
>>     thrown in and the ground levelled and had a granite thiipa
>>     established upon it. (/ibid. /p. 46).
>>
>>
>>     Cf. also /D?ghanik?ya??hakath???k? L?natthava??an?/, ed. Lily De
>>     Silva, London 1970: Luzac, vol. 2, p. 246, ll. 14ff.
>>     /v??asa?gh?tayantan ti //kakkhala? pa?ibhayadassana?
>>     a??ama??apa?ib{h}addhagaman?dit?ya sa?gh??ita?
>>     r?pakayanta?//yojesi. ten? ?ha ?ka??har?pak?n??ti ?di/.
>>
>>
>>     With best regards,
>>
>>     Seishi Karashima
>>
>>
>>     2016-09-12 21:42 GMT+09:00 Madhav Deshpande <mmdesh at umich.edu
>>     <mailto:mmdesh at umich.edu>>:
>>
>>         Hi Artur,
>>
>>              I checked Google Images for "Nagayantra", and there are
>>         several interesting diagrams and designs for such Yantras,
>>         some of which are evidently found in Thai Buddhist temples. 
>>         Here is a link:
>>
>>         http://www.sak-yant.com/archive/108yant/payanakarach/yantpayanakarach.jpg
>>         <http://www.sak-yant.com/archive/108yant/payanakarach/yantpayanakarach.jpg>
>>
>>         Madhav
>>
>>         On Mon, Sep 12, 2016 at 8:32 AM, Artur Karp <karp at uw.edu.pl
>>         <mailto:karp at uw.edu.pl>> wrote:
>>
>>             > contraption
>>
>>             :)
>>
>>             any image of ?
>>
>>             2016-09-12 14:29 GMT+02:00 Madhav Deshpande
>>             <mmdesh at umich.edu <mailto:mmdesh at umich.edu>>:
>>
>>                 Hi Artur,
>>
>>                      It probably refers to some contraption
>>                 surrounded by a host of serpents. Serpents as
>>                 guardians of hidden underground treasures is a
>>                 reasonably common idea in Indian literature.
>>
>>                 Madhav
>>
>>                 On Mon, Sep 12, 2016 at 8:24 AM, Artur Karp
>>                 <karp at uw.edu.pl <mailto:karp at uw.edu.pl>> wrote:
>>
>>                     Dear Madhav,
>>
>>                     The PTS,s Pali-English Dict.:
>>
>>                     *V??a* - [cp. late Sk. vy??a, see Geiger, /P.
>>                     Gr/. ? 54?] I. a snake Vism 312 (so read for
>>                     *va?a*).- 2. a beast of prey [...] *v??a-miga*, a
>>                     beast of prey, predaceous animal, like tiger,
>>                     leopard, etc. [...]
>>
>>                     When in search for the Elixir of immortality
>>                     Garuda enters the underworld, he kills *two
>>                     serpents* hidden under the [eternally] revolving
>>                     wheel. (Mbh. I, 29. 3-9).
>>
>>                     When the relics of the Buddha are hidden by
>>                     Ajatasattu in the underground chamber, Vissakamma
>>                     places over them, for their defence the
>>                     [eternally] revolving *v??a?sa?gh??a?yanta.*
>>                     *
>>                     *
>>                     If *v??a* would mean "snake, serpent", then this
>>                     could be one of the tropes linking both the
>>                     narrations.
>>
>>                     *Yanta *means "contrivance, artifice, instrument,
>>                     machine, mechanism" - in what way could it be
>>                     constructed/pegged together - using serpents?
>>                     Ataching it to serpents? Giving it a serpentine look?
>>
>>                     Artur
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>         _______________________________________________
>>         INDOLOGY mailing list
>>         INDOLOGY at list.indology.info <mailto:INDOLOGY at list.indology.info>
>>         indology-owner at list.indology.info
>>         <mailto:indology-owner at list.indology.info> (messages to the
>>         list's managing committee)
>>         http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list
>>         options or unsubscribe)
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>     _______________________________________________
>>     INDOLOGY mailing list
>>     INDOLOGY at list.indology.info <mailto:INDOLOGY at list.indology.info>
>>     indology-owner at list.indology.info
>>     <mailto:indology-owner at list.indology.info>  (messages to the list's managing committee)
>>     http://listinfo.indology.info  (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe)
>     _______________________________________________ INDOLOGY mailing
>     list INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>     <mailto:INDOLOGY at list.indology.info>
>     indology-owner at list.indology.info
>     <mailto:indology-owner at list.indology.info> (messages to the list's
>     managing committee) http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can
>     change your list options or unsubscribe) 
>
-- 
www.rolfheinrichkoch.wordpress.com


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From vjroebuck at btinternet.com  Mon Sep 12 20:18:18 2016
From: vjroebuck at btinternet.com (Valerie Roebuck)
Date: Mon, 12 Sep 16 21:18:18 +0100
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Double sandhi
In-Reply-To: <c7e09d2c-adae-257e-e391-e87b0ec18569@pbhome.se>
Message-ID: <B7EF39DA-12C6-4D23-9509-7E4181E1906E@btinternet.com>

There are a number in the Maitr?/Maitr?yan? Upani?ad, e.g. I.4, vanaspatayodbh?ta- from vanaspataya? udbh?ta > vanaspataya udbh?ta- 

I think there?s some discussion of the phenomenon in 

Buitenen, J. A. B. van. The Maitr?ya??ya Upani?ad: a critical essay. The Hague: Mouton, 1962.

Valerie J Roebuck
Manchester, UK


> On 12 Sep 2016, at 20:26, Martin Gansten <martin.gansten at pbhome.se> wrote:
> 
> I seem to recall having read a discussion on instances of irregular, double sandhi (as in, say, vartate idam > vartata idam > vartatedam) on the Indology list, but I can't find it in the list archives. If anyone could point me either to the old posts (assuming that they exist outside my imagination) or to some useful discussion of the phenomenon (does it occur and, if so, where; how is it regarded, etc), I should be most grateful.
> 
> Martin Gansten
> 
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe)



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From david_buchta at brown.edu  Mon Sep 12 20:20:10 2016
From: david_buchta at brown.edu (Buchta, David)
Date: Mon, 12 Sep 16 16:20:10 -0400
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Double sandhi
In-Reply-To: <c7e09d2c-adae-257e-e391-e87b0ec18569@pbhome.se>
Message-ID: <CAP_RTBB=13agiK3r_8nyAJbOnEqrZhysDBFyhQW=2trZP4Z6Ew@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Martin,

One such passage that comes to mind is Bhagavadg?t? 11.44: priy?y?rhasi

You can look at Oberlies, *A Grammar of Epic Sanskrit, *which has a whole
section on this phenomenon (pp. 34-49).

P??ini's separation of the trip?d? is important in formulating his rules to
avoid double sandhi, so you may also want to look into that side of things
(although I can't point you to specific scholarship off  the top of my
head).

A typical commentarial response is to claim '?r?a' usage. Baladeva
Vidy?bh??a?a, for example, writes on BhG 11.44: priy?y?rhas?ti visargalopa?
sandhi?c?r?a?.

Best,
David

--
David Buchta
Lecturer in Sanskrit
Department of Classics
Brown University

On Mon, Sep 12, 2016 at 3:26 PM, Martin Gansten <martin.gansten at pbhome.se>
wrote:

> I seem to recall having read a discussion on instances of irregular,
> double sandhi (as in, say, *vartate idam > vartata idam > vartatedam*) on
> the Indology list, but I can't find it in the list archives. If anyone
> could point me either to the old posts (assuming that they exist outside my
> imagination) or to some useful discussion of the phenomenon (does it occur
> and, if so, where; how is it regarded, etc), I should be most grateful.
>
> Martin Gansten
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
> committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
> unsubscribe)
>


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From rpg at berkeley.edu  Mon Sep 12 20:42:43 2016
From: rpg at berkeley.edu (Robert Goldman)
Date: Mon, 12 Sep 16 13:42:43 -0700
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Double sandhi
In-Reply-To: <CAP_RTBB=13agiK3r_8nyAJbOnEqrZhysDBFyhQW=2trZP4Z6Ew@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <2D29763A-B31D-4E1E-A85C-26044EBB94B7@berkeley.edu>

Dear Martin and David,

One reason this phenomenon is called ?r?a is that it is quite common in the epic texts (the texts of the ??i-s) such as, e.g. your G?t? passage.  There are, for example some nine examples in the critical edition (and apparatus) of the Uttarak???a of the V?lm?kir?m?ya?a. 

Best,

Bob
Dr. R. P.  Goldman
Catherine and William L. Magistretti Distinguished Professor in South and Southeast Asian Studies
Department of South and Southeast Asian Studies MC # 2540
The University of California at Berkeley
Berkeley, CA 94720-2540
Tel: 510-642-4089
Fax: 510-642-2409



> On Sep 12, 2016, at 1:20 PM, Buchta, David <david_buchta at brown.edu> wrote:
> 
> Hi Martin,
> 
> One such passage that comes to mind is Bhagavadg?t? 11.44: priy?y?rhasi
> 
> You can look at Oberlies, A Grammar of Epic Sanskrit, which has a whole section on this phenomenon (pp. 34-49).
> 
> P??ini's separation of the trip?d? is important in formulating his rules to avoid double sandhi, so you may also want to look into that side of things (although I can't point you to specific scholarship off  the top of my head).
> 
> A typical commentarial response is to claim '?r?a' usage. Baladeva Vidy?bh??a?a, for example, writes on BhG 11.44: priy?y?rhas?ti visargalopa? sandhi?c?r?a?.
> 
> Best,
> David
> 
> --
> David Buchta
> Lecturer in Sanskrit
> Department of Classics
> Brown University
> 
> On Mon, Sep 12, 2016 at 3:26 PM, Martin Gansten <martin.gansten at pbhome.se <mailto:martin.gansten at pbhome.se>> wrote:
> I seem to recall having read a discussion on instances of irregular, double sandhi (as in, say, vartate idam > vartata idam > vartatedam) on the Indology list, but I can't find it in the list archives. If anyone could point me either to the old posts (assuming that they exist outside my imagination) or to some useful discussion of the phenomenon (does it occur and, if so, where; how is it regarded, etc), I should be most grateful.
> 
> Martin Gansten
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info <mailto:INDOLOGY at list.indology.info>
> indology-owner at list.indology.info <mailto:indology-owner at list.indology.info> (messages to the list's managing committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info <http://listinfo.indology.info/> (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe)
> 
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
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From mmdesh at umich.edu  Mon Sep 12 21:12:02 2016
From: mmdesh at umich.edu (Madhav Deshpande)
Date: Mon, 12 Sep 16 17:12:02 -0400
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Double sandhi
In-Reply-To: <B7EF39DA-12C6-4D23-9509-7E4181E1906E@btinternet.com>
Message-ID: <CAB3-dzcQKz0Z22p_JXXQQEkfe0-UYGiHLps+24NKOY65tgXUjQ@mail.gmail.com>

P??ini recognizes such double Sandhis under the condition of p?dap?ra?a
"filling the metrical foot," and not as normal practice.  The traditional
example is sai?a d??arath? r?ma?.  Here sa?+e?a? > sa+e?a? > double sandhi
> sai?a?.

Madhav Deshpande

On Mon, Sep 12, 2016 at 4:18 PM, Valerie Roebuck <vjroebuck at btinternet.com>
wrote:

> There are a number in the Maitr?/Maitr?yan? Upani?ad, e.g. I.4, vanaspatayodbh?ta-
> from vanaspataya? udbh?ta > vanaspataya udbh?ta-
>
> I think there?s some discussion of the phenomenon in
>
> Buitenen, J. A. B. van. The Maitr?ya??ya Upani?ad: a critical essay. The
> Hague: Mouton, 1962.
>
> Valerie J Roebuck
> Manchester, UK
>
>
> On 12 Sep 2016, at 20:26, Martin Gansten <martin.gansten at pbhome.se> wrote:
>
> I seem to recall having read a discussion on instances of irregular,
> double sandhi (as in, say, *vartate idam > vartata idam > vartatedam*) on
> the Indology list, but I can't find it in the list archives. If anyone
> could point me either to the old posts (assuming that they exist outside my
> imagination) or to some useful discussion of the phenomenon (does it occur
> and, if so, where; how is it regarded, etc), I should be most grateful.
>
> Martin Gansten
>
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
> committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
> unsubscribe)
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
> committee)
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> unsubscribe)
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From harzer at utexas.edu  Mon Sep 12 21:57:20 2016
From: harzer at utexas.edu (Edeltraud Harzer)
Date: Mon, 12 Sep 16 16:57:20 -0500
Subject: [INDOLOGY] help with PDF: Thapar, Cultural Transaction...
Message-ID: <9ABA8C9E-E45B-437D-A5E7-F164E8CD7EE8@utexas.edu>

Dear all,
Is there anybody who?d share a pdf of R.Thapar?s ?Cultural Transaction in Early India: Tradition and Patronage.? In Social Scientist 15.2 (Feb 1987) 3-31.
I will be grateful for the help.

Edeltraud Harzer
University of Texas at Austin


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From kevinryan at fas.harvard.edu  Tue Sep 13 01:03:44 2016
From: kevinryan at fas.harvard.edu (Kevin M. Ryan)
Date: Mon, 12 Sep 16 21:03:44 -0400
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Double sandhi
In-Reply-To: <CAB3-dzcQKz0Z22p_JXXQQEkfe0-UYGiHLps+24NKOY65tgXUjQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <837d088c-d234-7ea6-0227-0e80c0c06029@fas.harvard.edu>

It's not exactly "double sandhi" in the sense of re-applying sandhi to 
the same sequence twice, but there are also bracketing paradoxes in 
sandhi triplets which might be relevant to this issue. I'm referring to 
the situation when one must deal with three underlying vowels in a row 
(V1+V2+V3). Apparently, it's normal to combine the first two vowels 
first (V1+V2 -> V') and then add in the third vowel (V'+V3 -> V"). 
Interestingly, this order of operations occurs even when V2+V3 is 
clearly the tighter constituent on all other grounds (syntax and sense), 
and should by all other rights be combined first. For example, this 
situation is found with ?? ihi = ?hi "come hither" several times in the 
RV, starting with 1.9.1:

a. ?ndr?hi ... (from /?ndra ?? ihi/, instead of *?ndr?ihi)

Lanman (1877, "A statistical account of noun-inflection in the Veda") 
speaks of one such case across p?das:

"The combination is interesting as showing how entirely preposterous and 
artificial is the sandhi hetween two p?das." Viz.

9.97.38ab
Restored:
a. s? pun?n? ?pa s??re n? dh??t?
b. ?bh? apr? r?das? v? ?? ?va?

Padap??ha:
sa? | pun?na? | upa | s?re | na | dh?t? | ? | ubhe iti | apr?? | rodas? 
iti | vi | sa? | ?var ity ?va?

Aufrecht:
s? pun?n? ?pa s??re n? dh??t?bh? apr? r?das? v? ?? ?va?






On 9/12/16 5:12 PM, Madhav Deshpande wrote:
> P??ini recognizes such double Sandhis under the condition of p?dap?ra?a
> "filling the metrical foot," and not as normal practice.  The
> traditional example is sai?a d??arath? r?ma?.  Here sa?+e?a? > sa+e?a? >
> double sandhi > sai?a?.
>
> Madhav Deshpande
>
> On Mon, Sep 12, 2016 at 4:18 PM, Valerie Roebuck
> <vjroebuck at btinternet.com <mailto:vjroebuck at btinternet.com>> wrote:
>
>     There are a number in the Maitr?/Maitr?yan? Upani?ad, e.g.
>     I.4, vanaspatayodbh?ta- from vanaspataya? udbh?ta > vanaspataya
>     udbh?ta-
>
>     I think there?s some discussion of the phenomenon in
>
>     Buitenen, J. A. B. van. The Maitr?ya??ya Upani?ad: a critical essay.
>     The Hague: Mouton, 1962.
>
>     Valerie J Roebuck
>     Manchester, UK
>
>
>>     On 12 Sep 2016, at 20:26, Martin Gansten <martin.gansten at pbhome.se
>>     <mailto:martin.gansten at pbhome.se>> wrote:
>>
>>     I seem to recall having read a discussion on instances of
>>     irregular, double sandhi (as in, say, /vartate idam > vartata idam
>>     > vartatedam/) on the Indology list, but I can't find it in the
>>     list archives. If anyone could point me either to the old posts
>>     (assuming that they exist outside my imagination) or to some
>>     useful discussion of the phenomenon (does it occur and, if so,
>>     where; how is it regarded, etc), I should be most grateful.
>>
>>     Martin Gansten
>>
>>     _______________________________________________
>>     INDOLOGY mailing list
>>     INDOLOGY at list.indology.info <mailto:INDOLOGY at list.indology.info>
>>     indology-owner at list.indology.info
>>     <mailto:indology-owner at list.indology.info> (messages to the list's
>>     managing committee)
>>     http://listinfo.indology.info
>>     <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__listinfo.indology.info&d=CwMFaQ&c=WO-RGvefibhHBZq3fL85hQ&r=NqkhTuN1wmPpoGV7HfN9h9sjzhrforkotCX8AEc5N5k&m=ESU5KOZ7PYGjKA04SuOgMi_ealxzoQbDkocHYgV7IXE&s=TKX8RdgkZRRIT-6JiFBRu-hzM4PzHigUYICVi6lWtx8&e=>
>>     (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe)
>
>
>     _______________________________________________
>     INDOLOGY mailing list
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>     indology-owner at list.indology.info
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>     managing committee)
>     http://listinfo.indology.info
>     <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__listinfo.indology.info&d=CwMFaQ&c=WO-RGvefibhHBZq3fL85hQ&r=NqkhTuN1wmPpoGV7HfN9h9sjzhrforkotCX8AEc5N5k&m=ESU5KOZ7PYGjKA04SuOgMi_ealxzoQbDkocHYgV7IXE&s=TKX8RdgkZRRIT-6JiFBRu-hzM4PzHigUYICVi6lWtx8&e=>
>     (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe)
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
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> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe)
>

-- 
Kevin M. Ryan
Associate Professor of Linguistics
Boylston Hall 317
Harvard University
Cambridge, MA 02138 USA
kevinryan at fas.harvard.edu
www.people.fas.harvard.edu/~kevinryan/





From nmisra at gmail.com  Tue Sep 13 01:30:26 2016
From: nmisra at gmail.com (Nityanand Misra)
Date: Tue, 13 Sep 16 07:00:26 +0530
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Double sandhi
In-Reply-To: <2D29763A-B31D-4E1E-A85C-26044EBB94B7@berkeley.edu>
Message-ID: <CAATk=rAqabKj0zf2VF4vO1oKzg9byvzWvnfVSM5btJ_m=3yrFg@mail.gmail.com>

On 13 September 2016 at 02:12, Robert Goldman <rpg at berkeley.edu> wrote:

> Dear Martin and David,
>
> One reason this phenomenon is called *?r?a* is that it is quite common in
> the epic texts (the texts of the *??i*-s) such as, e.g. your *G?t?*
> passage.  There are, for example some nine examples in the critical edition
> (and apparatus) of the *Uttarak???a* of the *V?lm?kir?m?ya?a*.
>
> Best,
>
>
A famous example in the *V?lm?ki R?m?ya?a* is from the *Ayodhy?k???a* (I
have not checked if this is in the critical edition):
*na c?ramasy?? pravidh?yateti* (VR 2.37.34)
where we have
*pravidh?yate + iti -> pravidh?yata iti -> pravidh?yateti*
The *Tilaka *commentary explains this by saying that the rule *na mu ne *(A
8.2.3) is to be split into two by *yogavibh?ga*:
*pravidh?yatet?tyatra sandhistu ?na mu ne? ityatra yogavibh?gena
kvacittrip?dy? asiddhatv?bh?vaj??pan?d?r?atv?dv?* (VR Tilaka 2.37.34)
This is explained in further detail in the attached pages of
*Adhy?tmar?m?ya?e?p??in?yaprayog????
Vimar?a?*.

Another example form the *Bhagavadg?t?:*
*he k???a he y?dava he sakheti* (BG 11.41)
where we have
*sakhe iti -> sakha iti -> sakheti*

And this example from the *Adhy?tma R?m?ya?a*
*mama j?yeti s?teti* (AR 3.8.20)
For which multiple explanations are offered in
*Adhy?tmar?m?ya?e?p??in?yaprayog????
Vimar?a? *(see the attachment)*.*


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From harzer at utexas.edu  Tue Sep 13 03:37:31 2016
From: harzer at utexas.edu (harzer at utexas.edu)
Date: Mon, 12 Sep 16 22:37:31 -0500
Subject: [INDOLOGY] help with PDF: Thapar, Cultural Transaction...
In-Reply-To: <CAB3-dzciN+0F7JE41f-OQRgWTH3gi_Ue35xYGVT9YRbkm8pWcA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4FC4CCFA-2E4C-4823-8DEB-1D5BC6F77C08@utexas.edu>

Thanks Madhav, 
This is good of you, but I already got a copy from Luis Gonzalez-Reimann earlier, though could not respond right away. So wonderful to have a multi response to a PDF request. 

Edeltraud.


Sent from my iPad

> On Sep 12, 2016, at 8:36 PM, Madhav Deshpande <mmdesh at umich.edu> wrote:
> 
> Hi Edeltraud,
> 
>      See the attached article.
> 
> Madhav
> 
>> On Mon, Sep 12, 2016 at 5:57 PM, Edeltraud Harzer <harzer at utexas.edu> wrote:
>> Dear all,
>> Is there anybody who?d share a pdf of R.Thapar?s ?Cultural Transaction in Early India: Tradition and Patronage.? In Social Scientist 15.2 (Feb 1987) 3-31.
>> I will be grateful for the help.
>> 
>> Edeltraud Harzer
>> University of Texas at Austin
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee)
>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe)
> 
> <Thapar-Romila-Cultural Transaction and Early India- Tradition and Patronage.pdf>


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From harzer at utexas.edu  Tue Sep 13 03:39:37 2016
From: harzer at utexas.edu (harzer at utexas.edu)
Date: Mon, 12 Sep 16 22:39:37 -0500
Subject: [INDOLOGY] help with PDF: Thapar, Cultural Transaction...
In-Reply-To: <CALNcvFttcheyHSK-806m1prsUwuGfmeQ_=Cfrn6VL1rYF7NTfA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <DDE443E3-935B-4C33-98D5-D1A0A75C5395@utexas.edu>

Thank you, Artur, 
For responding to my request, I already got a copy from Luis and Madhav, as you may see now too on the list. I appreciate it very much this kind professional support!
Edeltraud.

Sent from my iPad

> On Sep 12, 2016, at 10:21 PM, Artur Karp <karp at uw.edu.pl> wrote:
> 
> Dear Edeltraud,
> 
> Here it is:
> 
> And, remembering ---
> 
> Artur Karp (ret.)
> University of Warsaw
> 
> 2016-09-12 23:57 GMT+02:00 Edeltraud Harzer <harzer at utexas.edu>:
>> Dear all,
>> Is there anybody who?d share a pdf of R.Thapar?s ?Cultural Transaction in Early India: Tradition and Patronage.? In Social Scientist 15.2 (Feb 1987) 3-31.
>> I will be grateful for the help.
>> 
>> Edeltraud Harzer
>> University of Texas at Austin
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee)
>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe)
> 
> <Thapar Cultural Transaction Tradition Patyronage.pdf>


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From martin.gansten at pbhome.se  Tue Sep 13 05:47:58 2016
From: martin.gansten at pbhome.se (Martin Gansten)
Date: Tue, 13 Sep 16 07:47:58 +0200
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Double sandhi
In-Reply-To: <CAATk=rAqabKj0zf2VF4vO1oKzg9byvzWvnfVSM5btJ_m=3yrFg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <6fc33703-3c37-1a12-5fe2-3fa9eb6bafef@pbhome.se>

Many thanks to all who replied on and off list to this query with 
several examples (some of which were familiar once I'd been reminded of 
them)!

Martin Gansten






From paoloe.rosati at gmail.com  Tue Sep 13 12:29:54 2016
From: paoloe.rosati at gmail.com (Paolo Eugenio Rosati)
Date: Tue, 13 Sep 16 14:29:54 +0200
Subject: =?utf-8?Q?[INDOLOGY]_Mah=C5=8Dtpal=C4=81_in_Kamal=C4=81k=E1=B9=A3a_according_to_the_Matsyapur=C4=81=E1=B9=87a?=
Message-ID: <CAMOCTf_gkw6Wqb8xdgpRCz4HBH2P1MMzQdxf3s+bNpSTQgLtgw@mail.gmail.com>

Dear indologists,

I was reading the 13th chapter of the *Matsyapur?**?a *where is shortly
described the *dak**?ayajna *episode. Although there is no reference to the
dismemberment of the goddess Sati, there is a list of 108 places where she
says to reside.

One of these sacred place is Kamal? in Kamalal?ya.

D.C. Sircar (1948) in his study on the *s?kta pitha*s identified Kamal?
with Kubjika, and he identifies Kamalal?ya with: Nila, Pr??a (Kamal?k?i,
Kamal?k?a).

However going on in the *Matsyapur?**?a*'s list I noticed this place "Mah?
tpal? in Kamal?k?a".

So, I would like to understand if Kamal?k?a is identified with Nila(cala?)
or with his presiding goddess, the Mah?tpal? could be another temple on the
hill?

Anyone can suggest something? Maybe, am I in very wrong way about Mah?tpal??

Best,
Paolo



-- 
Paolo E. Rosati
Oriental Archaeologist
PhD candidate in "Civilizations of Asia and Africa"
South Asia Section
Dep. Italian Institute of Oriental Studies/ISO
'Sapienza' University of Rome
*https://uniroma1.academia.edu/PaoloRosati/
<https://uniroma1.academia.edu/PaoloRosati/>*
paoloe.rosati at uniroma1.it
paoloe.rosati at gmail.com
Skype: paoloe.rosati
Mobile: (+39) 338 73 83 472


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From mailmealakendudas at rediffmail.com  Wed Sep 14 05:55:46 2016
From: mailmealakendudas at rediffmail.com (alakendu das)
Date: Wed, 14 Sep 16 05:55:46 +0000
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Etymology and meaning of 'Jhana'
In-Reply-To: <CAATk=rCMKs60ALMv=S5eZTrmdfiq-_k5pE2mtpLqW3AKPAS4hw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1473612485.S.8457.3923.f4-234-102.1473832546.23529@webmail.rediffmail.com>

  

Thanks Dr.Misra and  all other scholars for enlightening me on 'Jhana'





                                      ALAKENDU DAS


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From karp at uw.edu.pl  Wed Sep 14 06:45:57 2016
From: karp at uw.edu.pl (Artur Karp)
Date: Wed, 14 Sep 16 08:45:57 +0200
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Two terms
In-Reply-To: <91b35ad1-bd34-3821-656e-a59d4882c24b@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CALNcvFvdGTEt9Xtzg-1d4pY-XofbRWoR1vLVvc2SGLDnSEggoQ@mail.gmail.com>

Dear List,

Would anyone take pity on me and translate this bit of the Sinhalese text
for me?

[Sent by Rolf Heinrich Koch:]

"daruva, Aj?ta?atru rajjuruvan visin dh?tu nidh?naya karavana lada, topi da
??a sudusu ?rak??vak karav" yi kiya.
e bas ?s? Vi?vakam divyaputra avut vy?lar?pa yukta yantrayak yod? da??in
ne?? karana lada d?payan dh?tu garbhayehi ?v??a puhupat ka?ugena
v?nav?gayak h? sam?na v?gayen sis?r? divann? v?
yantrayak mav?,...

Sinhala Th?pava?saya (2007) p. 109sq.

In advance, etc.

I would be especially grateful for the meaning of vy?lar?pa -  as it is
understood in the text: in the form of ferocius animal(s) [like tigers or
lions] or serpent(s)?


Artur



2016-09-12 17:19 GMT+02:00 Rolf Heinrich Koch <rolfheiner.koch at gmail.com>:

> I am just working on Sinhalese sources of the Buddhacarita.
>
> Regarding *v??asa?gh?tayantan t*he Sinhala Th?pava?saya reads:
>
>
> "daruva, Aj?ta?atru rajjuruvan visin dh?tu nidh?naya karavana lada, topi
> da ??a sudusu ?rak??vak karav" yi kiya.
> e bas ?s? Vi?vakam divyaputra avut vy?lar?pa yukta yantrayak yod? da??in
> ne?? karana lada d?payan dh?tu garbhayehi ?v??a puhupat ka?ugena
> v?nav?gayak h? sam?na v?gayen sis?r? divann? v?
> yantrayak mav?,...
>
> Sinhala Th?pava?saya (2007) p. 109sq.
>
> Best
>
> Heiner
>
>
> www.rolfheinrichkoch.wordpress.com
>
> Am 12.09.2016 um 15:03 schrieb Seishi Karashima:
>
> Dear colleagues,
>
> Almost identical passages are found in the *Th?pava?sa*: *The chronicle
> of the Th?pa and the Th?pava?sa: Being a Translation and Edition of
> V?cissaratthera?s Th?pava?sa*, by N.A. Jayawickrama, London 1971: Luzac
> (Sacred Books of the Buddhists / Pali Text Society, v. 28; Unesco
> Collection of Representative Works), pp. 182f.
>
>
> Jayawickrama translated the passages in question as follows:
>
>
> Sakka, the king of the deities addressed Vissakamma: 'Ajatasattu, my dear,
> has done the enshrining of the relics ; you provide protection there', and
> despatched him. He came and set up *a contraption with a number of
> figures of ferocious animals* and setting up inside the relic chamber
> (another contraption) which made the wooden figures bearing crystal
> coloured swords revolve with the speed of the wind, he had it all joined
> to one pin, had a rampart of granite in the form of a 'brick-hall' 6 built,
> and having it covered on top with a single (stone-slab) had earth thrown in
> and the ground levelled and had a granite thiipa established upon it. (*ibid.
> *p. 46).
>
>
> Cf. also *D?ghanik?ya??hakath???k? L?natthava??an?*, ed. Lily De Silva,
> London 1970: Luzac, vol. 2, p. 246, ll. 14ff. *v??asa?gh?tayantan ti **kakkhala?
> pa?ibhayadassana? a??ama??apa?ib{h}addhagaman?dit?ya sa?gh??ita?
> r?pakayanta?** yojesi. ten? ?ha ?ka??har?pak?n??ti ?di*.
>
>
> With best regards,
>
> Seishi Karashima
>
> 2016-09-12 21:42 GMT+09:00 Madhav Deshpande <mmdesh at umich.edu>:
>
>> Hi Artur,
>>
>>      I checked Google Images for "Nagayantra", and there are several
>> interesting diagrams and designs for such Yantras, some of which are
>> evidently found in Thai Buddhist temples.  Here is a link:
>>
>> http://www.sak-yant.com/archive/108yant/payanakarach/yantpayanakarach.jpg
>>
>> Madhav
>>
>> On Mon, Sep 12, 2016 at 8:32 AM, Artur Karp < <karp at uw.edu.pl>
>> karp at uw.edu.pl> wrote:
>>
>>> > contraption
>>>
>>> :)
>>>
>>> any image of ?
>>>
>>> 2016-09-12 14:29 GMT+02:00 Madhav Deshpande < <mmdesh at umich.edu>
>>> mmdesh at umich.edu>:
>>>
>>>> Hi Artur,
>>>>
>>>>      It probably refers to some contraption surrounded by a host of
>>>> serpents.  Serpents as guardians of hidden underground treasures is a
>>>> reasonably common idea in Indian literature.
>>>>
>>>> Madhav
>>>>
>>>> On Mon, Sep 12, 2016 at 8:24 AM, Artur Karp < <karp at uw.edu.pl>
>>>> karp at uw.edu.pl> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Dear Madhav,
>>>>>
>>>>> The PTS,s Pali-English Dict.:
>>>>>
>>>>> *V??a* - [cp. late Sk. vy??a, see Geiger, *P. Gr*. ? 54?] I. a snake
>>>>> Vism 312 (so read for *va?a*).- 2. a beast of prey [...] *v??a-miga*,
>>>>> a beast of prey, predaceous animal, like tiger, leopard, etc. [...]
>>>>>
>>>>> When in search for the Elixir of immortality Garuda enters the
>>>>> underworld, he kills *two serpents* hidden under the [eternally]
>>>>> revolving wheel. (Mbh. I, 29. 3-9).
>>>>>
>>>>> When the relics of the Buddha are hidden by Ajatasattu in the
>>>>> underground chamber, Vissakamma places over them, for their defence the
>>>>> [eternally] revolving *v??a?sa?gh??a?yanta.*
>>>>>
>>>>> If *v??a* would mean "snake, serpent", then this could be one of the
>>>>> tropes linking both the narrations.
>>>>>
>>>>> *Yanta *means "contrivance, artifice, instrument, machine, mechanism"
>>>>> - in what way could it be constructed/pegged together - using serpents?
>>>>> Ataching it to serpents? Giving it a serpentine look?
>>>>>
>>>>> Artur
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
>> committee)
>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
>> unsubscribe)
>>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing listINDOLOGY at list.indology.infoindology-owner@list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee)http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe)
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
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> committee)
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> unsubscribe)
>


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From psdmccartney at gmail.com  Wed Sep 14 07:25:34 2016
From: psdmccartney at gmail.com (patrick mccartney)
Date: Wed, 14 Sep 16 16:55:34 +0930
Subject: =?utf-8?Q?[INDOLOGY]_pa=C3=B1cako=C5=9Ba?=
Message-ID: <CAEzwJrDw7+Nv3WtG4PcHM9v1Fae3pJtqP72PX5WUTdV+oxbbQQ@mail.gmail.com>

Dear Friends,

I'm writing a book chapter about the anthropology of tourism and
embodiment. I have decided to include various 'yogic' perspectives. I am
considering how to include classical ideas like *pa?cako?a* concept with
contemporary practitioner-based ideas of embodiment.

I would appreciate any suggestions and specific textual references that
possibly discuss the idea of 'embodiment'. Two that come to mind are
*vedam?rti* and *??ntam?rti*. Another is *sam?dhivigraha*, however, I do
not as yet have any textual sources for this term.

I am curious to know about the first attested mention of the *pa?cako?a*? I
am reading through the *pa?cada??* text, which I have found mention in
secondary literature was maybe written in the 14th century. Although my
assumption is that the *pa?cako?a* concept appears earlier than that.

Thanks in advance.




All the best,

Patrick McCartney, PhD
Fellow
School of Culture, History & Language
College of the Asia-Pacific
The Australian National University
Canberra, Australia, 0200


Skype - psdmccartney
Phone + Whatsapp:  +61 414 954 748
Twitter - @psdmccartney

academia <https://anu-au.academia.edu/patrickmccartney>

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<https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=ek+din+hamaare+ashram+mein>

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From eastwestcultural at yahoo.com  Wed Sep 14 08:08:56 2016
From: eastwestcultural at yahoo.com (Dean Michael Anderson)
Date: Wed, 14 Sep 16 08:08:56 +0000
Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_[INDOLOGY]_pa=C3=B1cako=C5=9Ba?=
In-Reply-To: <CAEzwJrDw7+Nv3WtG4PcHM9v1Fae3pJtqP72PX5WUTdV+oxbbQQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <110502459.2381896.1473840537015@mail.yahoo.com>

They are mentioned in the Vivekachudamani ascribed to Adi Shankaracharya.

Best,
Dean AndersonEast West Cultural Insitute

      From: patrick mccartney <psdmccartney at gmail.com>
 To: Indology List <indology at list.indology.info> 
 Sent: Wednesday, September 14, 2016 12:55 PM
 Subject: [INDOLOGY] pa?cako?a
   
Dear Friends,?
I'm writing a book chapter about the anthropology of tourism and embodiment. I have decided to include various 'yogic' perspectives. I am considering how to include classical ideas like pa?cako?a concept with contemporary practitioner-based ideas of embodiment.?
I would appreciate any suggestions and specific textual references that possibly discuss the idea of 'embodiment'. Two that come to mind are vedam?rti and ??ntam?rti. Another is sam?dhivigraha, however, I do not as yet have any textual sources for this term.?
I am curious to know about the first attested mention of the pa?cako?a? I am reading through the pa?cada?? text, which I have found mention in secondary literature was maybe written in the 14th century. Although my assumption is that the pa?cako?a concept appears earlier than that. ?
Thanks in advance.?



All the best,

Patrick McCartney, PhDFellowSchool of Culture, History & Language
College of the Asia-Pacific
The Australian National University
Canberra, Australia, 0200


Skype - psdmccartneyPhone + Whatsapp: ?+61 414 954 748Twitter - @psdmccartney

academia   
   - 
Linkedin

#yogabodyANU2016 symposium?
Ep1 - Imagining Sanskrit Land
Ep 2 - Total-am
Ep 3 - Jalam ? Chillum
Ep 4 - It's Time to get Married
A Day in our Ashram
Stop animation short film of Shakuntala?

Forced to Clean Human Waste
One of my favourite songs




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From kiepue at t-online.de  Wed Sep 14 08:51:41 2016
From: kiepue at t-online.de (=?utf-8?Q?petra_kieffer-p=C3=BClz?=)
Date: Wed, 14 Sep 16 10:51:41 +0200
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Two terms
In-Reply-To: <CALNcvFvdGTEt9Xtzg-1d4pY-XofbRWoR1vLVvc2SGLDnSEggoQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <E050ED76-AB50-4711-BBC4-3FA7CC8B69E1@t-online.de>

Dear Artur,

the Sinhala Th?pava?saya has been translated by S. Berkwitz, The Enshrining of the Relics.
On p. 131f. you'll find the translation of this passage as follows:

"Dear boy! The enshrining of the relics has been done by King Aj?ta?atru. Create a suitable defense for them." The deity Vi?vakarma, who heard those words, came and prepared a device outfitted with figures of wild beasts, and created a device in the relic chamber out of wooden forms that held shining swords of crystal and that whirled around with a speed equal to that of the wind."

By the way the word v??a means predators in other contexts too. Thus we have diwans (palla?ka) the feet of which are decorated with figures of beast of prey (Vin IV 299,21f.).

Best,
Petra Kieffer-P?lz

Am 14.09.2016 um 08:45 schrieb Artur Karp:

> Dear List, 
> 
> Would anyone take pity on me and translate this bit of the Sinhalese text for me?
> 
> [Sent by Rolf Heinrich Koch:]
> 
> "daruva, Aj?ta?atru rajjuruvan visin dh?tu nidh?naya karavana lada, topi da ??a sudusu ?rak??vak karav" yi kiya.
> e bas ?s? Vi?vakam divyaputra avut vy?lar?pa yukta yantrayak yod? da??in ne?? karana lada d?payan dh?tu garbhayehi ?v??a puhupat ka?ugena v?nav?gayak h? sam?na v?gayen sis?r? divann? v? 
> yantrayak mav?,...
> 
> Sinhala Th?pava?saya (2007) p. 109sq.
> 
> In advance, etc. 
> 
> I would be especially grateful for the meaning of vy?lar?pa -  as it is understood in the text: in the form of ferocius animal(s) [like tigers or lions] or serpent(s)?
> 
> 
> 
> Artur
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2016-09-12 17:19 GMT+02:00 Rolf Heinrich Koch <rolfheiner.koch at gmail.com>:
> I am just working on Sinhalese sources of the Buddhacarita.
> 
> Regarding v??asa?gh?tayantan the Sinhala Th?pava?saya reads:
> 
> 
> "daruva, Aj?ta?atru rajjuruvan visin dh?tu nidh?naya karavana lada, topi da ??a sudusu ?rak??vak karav" yi kiya.
> e bas ?s? Vi?vakam divyaputra avut vy?lar?pa yukta yantrayak yod? da??in ne?? karana lada d?payan dh?tu garbhayehi ?v??a puhupat ka?ugena v?nav?gayak h? sam?na v?gayen sis?r? divann? v? 
> yantrayak mav?,...
> 
> Sinhala Th?pava?saya (2007) p. 109sq.
> 
> Best 
> Heiner
> 
> 
> www.rolfheinrichkoch.wordpress.com
> 
> Am 12.09.2016 um 15:03 schrieb Seishi Karashima:
>> Dear colleagues,
>> 
>> Almost identical passages are found in the Th?pava?sa: The chronicle of the Th?pa and the Th?pava?sa: Being a Translation and Edition of V?cissaratthera?s Th?pava?sa, by N.A. Jayawickrama, London 1971: Luzac (Sacred Books of the Buddhists / Pali Text Society, v. 28; Unesco Collection of Representative Works), pp. 182f.
>> 
>> Jayawickrama translated the passages in question as follows: 
>> 
>> Sakka, the king of the deities addressed Vissakamma: 'Ajatasattu, my dear, has done the enshrining of the relics ; you provide protection there', and despatched him. He came and set up a contraption with a number of figures of ferocious animals and setting up inside the relic chamber (another contraption) which made the wooden figures bearing crystal coloured swords revolve with the speed of the wind, he had it all joined to one pin, had a rampart of granite in the form of a 'brick-hall' 6 built, and having it covered on top with a single (stone-slab) had earth thrown in and the ground levelled and had a granite thiipa established upon it. (ibid. p. 46).
>> 
>> Cf. also D?ghanik?ya??hakath???k? L?natthava??an?, ed. Lily De Silva, London 1970: Luzac, vol. 2, p. 246, ll. 14ff. v??asa?gh?tayantan ti kakkhala? pa?ibhayadassana? a??ama??apa?ib{h}addhagaman?dit?ya sa?gh??ita? r?pakayanta? yojesi. ten? ?ha ?ka??har?pak?n??ti ?di.
>> 
>> With best regards,
>> Seishi Karashima
>> 
>> 2016-09-12 21:42 GMT+09:00 Madhav Deshpande <mmdesh at umich.edu>:
>> Hi Artur,
>> 
>>      I checked Google Images for "Nagayantra", and there are several interesting diagrams and designs for such Yantras, some of which are evidently found in Thai Buddhist temples.  Here is a link:
>> 
>> http://www.sak-yant.com/archive/108yant/payanakarach/yantpayanakarach.jpg
>> 
>> Madhav
>> 
>> On Mon, Sep 12, 2016 at 8:32 AM, Artur Karp <karp at uw.edu.pl> wrote:
>> > contraption
>> 
>> :)
>> 
>> any image of ?
>> 
>> 2016-09-12 14:29 GMT+02:00 Madhav Deshpande <mmdesh at umich.edu>:
>> Hi Artur,
>> 
>>      It probably refers to some contraption surrounded by a host of serpents.  Serpents as guardians of hidden underground treasures is a reasonably common idea in Indian literature.
>> 
>> Madhav 
>> 
>> On Mon, Sep 12, 2016 at 8:24 AM, Artur Karp <karp at uw.edu.pl> wrote:
>> Dear Madhav, 
>> 
>> The PTS,s Pali-English Dict.:
>> 
>> V??a - [cp. late Sk. vy??a, see Geiger, P. Gr. ? 54?] I. a snake Vism 312 (so read for va?a).- 2. a beast of prey [...] v??a-miga, a beast of prey, predaceous animal, like tiger, leopard, etc. [...]
>> 
>> When in search for the Elixir of immortality Garuda enters the underworld, he kills two serpents hidden under the [eternally] revolving wheel. (Mbh. I, 29. 3-9). 
>> 
>> When the relics of the Buddha are hidden by Ajatasattu in the underground chamber, Vissakamma places over them, for their defence the [eternally] revolving v??a?sa?gh??a?yanta.
>> 
>> If v??a would mean "snake, serpent", then this could be one of the tropes linking both the narrations.
>> 
>> Yanta means "contrivance, artifice, instrument, machine, mechanism" - in what way could it be constructed/pegged together - using serpents? Ataching it to serpents? Giving it a serpentine look?
>> 
>> Artur  
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee)
>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe)
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee)
>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe)
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
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From tlsmith at snu.ac.kr  Wed Sep 14 09:09:14 2016
From: tlsmith at snu.ac.kr (Travis L. Smith)
Date: Wed, 14 Sep 16 18:09:14 +0900
Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_[INDOLOGY]_pa=C3=B1cako=C5=9Ba?=
In-Reply-To: <CAEzwJrDw7+Nv3WtG4PcHM9v1Fae3pJtqP72PX5WUTdV+oxbbQQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <Mime4j.e073.c9e07392caf75075.15727f5126f@snu.ac.kr>


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From tlsmith at snu.ac.kr  Wed Sep 14 09:20:52 2016
From: tlsmith at snu.ac.kr (Travis L. Smith)
Date: Wed, 14 Sep 16 18:20:52 +0900
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Mercury and quicksilver
In-Reply-To: <HE1PR0801MB1772655F248D6FCA3E4483D6A5FF0@HE1PR0801MB1772.eurprd08.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <Mime4j.e09a.5aa34fa0efa7dbcc.15727ffb722@snu.ac.kr>


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From rolfheiner.koch at gmail.com  Wed Sep 14 09:24:41 2016
From: rolfheiner.koch at gmail.com (Rolf Heinrich Koch)
Date: Wed, 14 Sep 16 11:24:41 +0200
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Two terms
In-Reply-To: <E050ED76-AB50-4711-BBC4-3FA7CC8B69E1@t-online.de>
Message-ID: <48e79700-ba13-7230-17a1-93695488a415@gmail.com>

Dear Artur,

The text needs two corrections: instead of puhupat read p?h?pat "shining"

and for v?nav?gayak of course v?tav?gayak "fast as the wind"

"daruva, Aj?ta?atru rajjuruvan visin dh?tu nidh?naya karavana lada, topi 
da ??a sudusu ?rak??vak karav" yi kiya.
e bas ?s? Vi?vakam divyaputra avut vy?lar?pa yukta yantrayak yod? da??in 
ne?? karana lada d?payan dh?tu garbhayehi ?v??a _p?h?pat_ ka?ugena 
_v?tav?gayak _h? sam?na v?gayen sis?r? divann? v?
yantrayak mav?,...


Rolf Heinrich Koch

Am 14.09.2016 um 10:51 schrieb petra kieffer-p?lz:
> Dear Artur,
>
> the Sinhala Th?pava?saya has been translated by S. Berkwitz, The 
> Enshrining of the Relics.
> On p. 131f. you'll find the translation of this passage as follows:
>
> "Dear boy! The enshrining of the relics has been done by King 
> Aj?ta?atru. Create a suitable defense for them." The deity Vi?vakarma, 
> who heard those words, came and prepared a device outfitted with 
> figures of wild beasts, and created a device in the relic chamber out 
> of wooden forms that held shining swords of crystal and that whirled 
> around with a speed equal to that of the wind."
>
> By the way the word v??a means predators in other contexts too. Thus 
> we have diwans (palla?ka) the feet of which are decorated with figures 
> of beast of prey (Vin IV 299,21f.).
>
> Best,
> Petra Kieffer-P?lz
>
> Am 14.09.2016 um 08:45 schrieb Artur Karp:
>
>> Dear List,
>>
>> Would anyone take pity on me and translate this bit of the Sinhalese 
>> text for me?
>>
>> [Sent by Rolf Heinrich Koch:]
>>
>> "daruva, Aj?ta?atru rajjuruvan visin dh?tu nidh?naya karavana lada, 
>> topi da ??a sudusu ?rak??vak karav" yi kiya.
>> e bas ?s? Vi?vakam divyaputra avut vy?lar?pa yukta yantrayak yod? 
>> da??in ne?? karana lada d?payan dh?tu garbhayehi ?v??a puhupat 
>> ka?ugena v?nav?gayak h? sam?na v?gayen sis?r? divann? v?
>> yantrayak mav?,...
>>
>> Sinhala Th?pava?saya (2007) p. 109sq.
>>
>> In advance, etc.
>>
>> I would be especially grateful for the meaning of vy?lar?pa -  as it 
>> is understood in the text: in the form of ferocius animal(s) [like 
>> tigers or lions]or serpent(s)?
>>
>>
>> Artur
>>
>>
>>
>> 2016-09-12 17:19 GMT+02:00 Rolf Heinrich Koch 
>> <rolfheiner.koch at gmail.com <mailto:rolfheiner.koch at gmail.com>>:
>>
>>     I am just working on Sinhalese sources of the Buddhacarita.
>>
>>     Regarding /v??asa?gh?tayantan t/he Sinhala Th?pava?saya reads:
>>
>>
>>     "daruva, Aj?ta?atru rajjuruvan visin dh?tu nidh?naya karavana
>>     lada, topi da ??a sudusu ?rak??vak karav" yi kiya.
>>     e bas ?s? Vi?vakam divyaputra avut vy?lar?pa yukta yantrayak yod?
>>     da??in ne?? karana lada d?payan dh?tu garbhayehi ?v??a puhupat
>>     ka?ugena v?nav?gayak h? sam?na v?gayen sis?r? divann? v?
>>     yantrayak mav?,...
>>
>>     Sinhala Th?pava?saya (2007) p. 109sq.
>>
>>     Best
>>
>>     Heiner
>>
>>
>>     www.rolfheinrichkoch.wordpress.com
>>     <http://www.rolfheinrichkoch.wordpress.com/>
>>
>>
>>     Am 12.09.2016 um 15:03 schrieb Seishi Karashima:
>>>     Dear colleagues,
>>>
>>>     Almost identical passages are found in the /Th?pava?sa/: /The
>>>     chronicle of the Th?pa and the Th?pava?sa: Being a Translation
>>>     and Edition of V?cissaratthera?s Th?pava?sa/, by N.A.
>>>     Jayawickrama, London 1971: Luzac (Sacred Books of the Buddhists
>>>     / Pali Text Society, v. 28; Unesco Collection of Representative
>>>     Works), pp. 182f.
>>>
>>>     Jayawickrama translated the passages in question as follows:
>>>
>>>     Sakka, the king of the deities addressed Vissakamma:
>>>     'Ajatasattu, my dear, has done the enshrining of the relics ;
>>>     you provide protection there', and despatched him. He came and
>>>     set up *a contraption with a number of figures of ferocious
>>>     animals* and setting up inside the relic chamber (another
>>>     contraption) which made the wooden figures bearing crystal
>>>     coloured swords revolve with the speed of the wind, he had it
>>>     all joined to one pin, had a rampart of granite in the form of a
>>>     'brick-hall' 6 built, and having it covered on top with a single
>>>     (stone-slab) had earth thrown in and the ground levelled and had
>>>     a granite thiipa established upon it. (/ibid. /p. 46).
>>>
>>>     Cf. also /D?ghanik?ya??hakath???k? L?natthava??an?/, ed. Lily De
>>>     Silva, London 1970: Luzac, vol. 2, p. 246, ll. 14ff.
>>>     /v??asa?gh?tayantan ti //kakkhala? pa?ibhayadassana?
>>>     a??ama??apa?ib{h}addhagaman?dit?ya sa?gh??ita?
>>>     r?pakayanta?//yojesi. ten? ?ha ?ka??har?pak?n??ti ?di/.
>>>
>>>     With best regards,
>>>     Seishi Karashima
>>>
>>>     2016-09-12 21:42 GMT+09:00 Madhav Deshpande <mmdesh at umich.edu
>>>     <mailto:mmdesh at umich.edu>>:
>>>
>>>         Hi Artur,
>>>
>>>              I checked Google Images for "Nagayantra", and there are
>>>         several interesting diagrams and designs for such Yantras,
>>>         some of which are evidently found in Thai Buddhist temples. 
>>>         Here is a link:
>>>
>>>         http://www.sak-yant.com/archive/108yant/payanakarach/yantpayanakarach.jpg
>>>         <http://www.sak-yant.com/archive/108yant/payanakarach/yantpayanakarach.jpg>
>>>
>>>         Madhav
>>>
>>>         On Mon, Sep 12, 2016 at 8:32 AM, Artur Karp <karp at uw.edu.pl
>>>         <mailto:karp at uw.edu.pl>> wrote:
>>>
>>>             > contraption
>>>
>>>             :)
>>>
>>>             any image of ?
>>>
>>>             2016-09-12 14:29 GMT+02:00 Madhav Deshpande
>>>             <mmdesh at umich.edu <mailto:mmdesh at umich.edu>>:
>>>
>>>                 Hi Artur,
>>>
>>>                      It probably refers to some contraption
>>>                 surrounded by a host of serpents. Serpents as
>>>                 guardians of hidden underground treasures is a
>>>                 reasonably common idea in Indian literature.
>>>
>>>                 Madhav
>>>
>>>                 On Mon, Sep 12, 2016 at 8:24 AM, Artur Karp
>>>                 <karp at uw.edu.pl <mailto:karp at uw.edu.pl>> wrote:
>>>
>>>                     Dear Madhav,
>>>
>>>                     The PTS,s Pali-English Dict.:
>>>
>>>                     *V??a* - [cp. late Sk. vy??a, see Geiger, /P.
>>>                     Gr/. ? 54?] I. a snake Vism 312 (so read for
>>>                     *va?a*).- 2. a beast of prey [...] *v??a-miga*,
>>>                     a beast of prey, predaceous animal, like tiger,
>>>                     leopard, etc. [...]
>>>
>>>                     When in search for the Elixir of immortality
>>>                     Garuda enters the underworld, he kills *two
>>>                     serpents* hidden under the [eternally] revolving
>>>                     wheel. (Mbh. I, 29. 3-9).
>>>
>>>                     When the relics of the Buddha are hidden by
>>>                     Ajatasattu in the underground chamber,
>>>                     Vissakamma places over them, for their defence
>>>                     the [eternally] revolving *v??a?sa?gh??a?yanta.*
>>>                     *
>>>                     *
>>>                     If *v??a* would mean "snake, serpent", then this
>>>                     could be one of the tropes linking both the
>>>                     narrations.
>>>
>>>                     *Yanta *means "contrivance, artifice,
>>>                     instrument, machine, mechanism" - in what way
>>>                     could it be constructed/pegged together - using
>>>                     serpents? Ataching it to serpents? Giving it a
>>>                     serpentine look?
>>>
>>>                     Artur
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>         _______________________________________________
>>>         INDOLOGY mailing list
>>>         INDOLOGY at list.indology.info <mailto:INDOLOGY at list.indology.info>
>>>         indology-owner at list.indology.info
>>>         <mailto:indology-owner at list.indology.info> (messages to the
>>>         list's managing committee)
>>>         http://listinfo.indology.info
>>>         <http://listinfo.indology.info/> (where you can change your
>>>         list options or unsubscribe)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>     _______________________________________________
>>>     INDOLOGY mailing list
>>>     INDOLOGY at list.indology.info <mailto:INDOLOGY at list.indology.info>
>>>     indology-owner at list.indology.info
>>>     <mailto:indology-owner at list.indology.info>  (messages to the list's managing committee)
>>>     http://listinfo.indology.info <http://listinfo.indology.info/>  (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe)
>>     _______________________________________________ INDOLOGY mailing
>>     list INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>>     <mailto:INDOLOGY at list.indology.info>
>>     indology-owner at list.indology.info
>>     <mailto:indology-owner at list.indology.info> (messages to the
>>     list's managing committee) http://listinfo.indology.info
>>     <http://listinfo.indology.info/> (where you can change your list
>>     options or unsubscribe) 
>>
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
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From hegartyjm at googlemail.com  Wed Sep 14 09:26:16 2016
From: hegartyjm at googlemail.com (James Hegarty)
Date: Wed, 14 Sep 16 10:26:16 +0100
Subject: Hindu and Islamic Traditions in the Eighteenth Century
Message-ID: <C707C516-BB1B-419C-B99D-A372683697E6@googlemail.com>

Dear Colleagues,

I am currently preparing a new undergraduate course on the religious history of  South Asia from the early sixteenth century to present.

I am looking for recommendations for studies of Hindu and Islamic movements in the eighteenth century in particular (I have plenty of material on the Sikhs).

Any suggestions will be gratefully received!

With Thanks and Best Wishes,

James Hegarty
Cardiff University




From michaels at asia-europe.uni-heidelberg.de  Wed Sep 14 09:45:01 2016
From: michaels at asia-europe.uni-heidelberg.de (Michaels, Axel)
Date: Wed, 14 Sep 16 09:45:01 +0000
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Naples Documents Database
Message-ID: <488113D2-F509-4069-B7CF-94ADBDE62737@asia-europe.uni-heidelberg.de>

Dear list members,

The team of the research unit ?Documents on the History of Religion
and Law of Pre-modern Nepal? of the Heidelberg Academy of Sciences and
Humanities is happy to announce the launch of its website and database.

The database ?Documenta Nepalica? features two interrelated parts,
?catalogue? and ?editions.? The former aims at bringing together
information about published and unpublished historical documents from
Nepal, while the latter is the platform for digital (XML) editions of
documents selected from the catalogue by the members of the project.

You may access the website here:
http://www.haw.uni-heidelberg.de/forschung/forschungsstellen/nepal/index.de.html

Selecting the tab ?Documenta Nepalica? will take you to the database
proper. As this is an open access project no log-in is required.

Come and explore!

For any queries or comments please contact us (nepal at adw.uni-heidelberg.de<mailto:nepal at adw.uni-heidelberg.de>).

With best wishes
Axel Michaels with Manik Bajracharya, Simon Cubelic, Rajan Khatiwoda, Astrid Zotter, and Christof Zotter


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From michaels at asia-europe.uni-heidelberg.de  Wed Sep 14 09:48:34 2016
From: michaels at asia-europe.uni-heidelberg.de (Michaels, Axel)
Date: Wed, 14 Sep 16 09:48:34 +0000
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Correction: Nepalese Documents Database
Message-ID: <E4C72D01-0F59-4361-AF91-03D88AA0C518@asia-europe.uni-heidelberg.de>

Dear list members,

The team of the research unit ?Documents on the History of Religion
and Law of Pre-modern Nepal? of the Heidelberg Academy of Sciences and
Humanities is happy to announce the launch of its website and database.

The database ?Documenta Nepalica? features two interrelated parts,
?catalogue? and ?editions.? The former aims at bringing together
information about published and unpublished historical documents from
Nepal, while the latter is the platform for digital (XML) editions of
documents selected from the catalogue by the members of the project.

You may access the website here:
http://www.haw.uni-heidelberg.de/forschung/forschungsstellen/nepal/index.de.html

Selecting the tab ?Documenta Nepalica? will take you to the database
proper. As this is an open access project no log-in is required.

Come and explore!

For any queries or comments please contact us (nepal at adw.uni-heidelberg.de<mailto:nepal at adw.uni-heidelberg.de>).

With best wishes
Axel Michaels with Manik Bajracharya, Simon Cubelic, Rajan Khatiwoda, Astrid Zotter, and Christof Zotter


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From nagarajpaturi at gmail.com  Wed Sep 14 10:10:44 2016
From: nagarajpaturi at gmail.com (Nagaraj Paturi)
Date: Wed, 14 Sep 16 15:40:44 +0530
Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_[INDOLOGY]_pa=C3=B1cako=C5=9Ba?=
In-Reply-To: <Mime4j.e073.c9e07392caf75075.15727f5126f@snu.ac.kr>
Message-ID: <CAJGj9eZKdVSZvj72AX6HnvxjvuGEN0z06rG2p4b1skQ2nL9QjQ@mail.gmail.com>

Dear Patrick,

 *vedam?rti* and *??ntam?rti *kind of metaphors belong to a different
category. They belong to the category of figurative expressions. We have a
huge number of them.

dharmam?rti, gurum?rti are the most frequent.

r?m? vigrahav?n dharmah type statements are similar.

?tman as 'embodied' is found in expressions such as ??r?raka m?m?ms? as the
name for Brhmasutra( Bhashya)

Cpomparable to k??as is sth?la ?ar?ra, s?k?ma ?ar?ra, k?ra?a (linga)
?ar?ra. .

On Wed, Sep 14, 2016 at 2:39 PM, "Travis L. Smith" <tlsmith at snu.ac.kr>
wrote:

> Dear Patrick,
>
>
> I think the *locus classicus* is Taittir?ya Up. 2.2, though the term
> *ko?a* is only used later: there, five "bodies" (*?tman*) are described.
> I assume the term *ko?a *came about because later Ved?ntins
> obviously used the term *?tman* only in a very precise technical sense,
> whereas in the Upani?ads the term was used a lot more fluidly.
>
>
> All best,
>
>
> Travis
>
>
> --
>
> Travis L. Smith
>
> Associate Professor
>
> Department of Asian Languages and Civilizations
>
> Seoul National University
>
> --------- ?? ?? ---------
>
> *????* : patrick mccartney <psdmccartney at gmail.com>
> *????* : Indology List <indology at list.indology.info>
> *??* : 2016? 9? 14?(?) 16:25:34
> *??* : [INDOLOGY] pa?cako?a
>
> Dear Friends,
>
> I'm writing a book chapter about the anthropology of tourism and
> embodiment. I have decided to include various 'yogic' perspectives. I am
> considering how to include classical ideas like *pa?cako?a* concept with
> contemporary practitioner-based ideas of embodiment.
>
> I would appreciate any suggestions and specific textual references that
> possibly discuss the idea of 'embodiment'. Two that come to mind are
> *vedam?rti* and *??ntam?rti*. Another is *sam?dhivigraha*, however, I do
> not as yet have any textual sources for this term.
>
> I am curious to know about the first attested mention of the *pa?cako?a*?
> I am reading through the *pa?cada??* text, which I have found mention in
> secondary literature was maybe written in the 14th century. Although my
> assumption is that the *pa?cako?a* concept appears earlier than that.
>
> Thanks in advance.
>
>
>
>
> All the best,
>
> Patrick McCartney, PhD
> Fellow
> School of Culture, History & Language
> College of the Asia-Pacific
> The Australian National University
> Canberra, Australia, 0200
>
>
> Skype - psdmccartney
> Phone + Whatsapp:  +61 414 954 748
> Twitter - @psdmccartney
>
> academia <https://anu-au.academia.edu/patrickmccartney>
>
>    -
>
> Linkedin
> <https://www.linkedin.com/profile/view?id=241756978&trk=nav_responsive_tab_profile>
>
> #yogabodyANU2016 symposium
> <http://chl.anu.edu.au/news-events/events/658/yoga-and-body-past-and-present-symposium?#tab>
>
> <http://chl.anu.edu.au/news-events/events/658/yoga-and-body-past-and-present-symposium?#tab>
>
> Ep1 - Imagining Sanskrit Land <https://youtu.be/jMi7tkPBbJ4>
>
> Ep 2 - Total-am <https://youtu.be/7tAp8m9RHPU>
>
> Ep 3 - Jalam ? Chillum <https://youtu.be/cLZeuCT_mwQ>
>
> Ep 4 - It's Time to get Married
> <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_B3un7aHEAc>
>
> A Day in our Ashram
> <https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=ek+din+hamaare+ashram+mein>
>
> Stop animation short film of Shakuntala
> <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LVqBD_2P4Pg>
>
> Forced to Clean Human Waste <http://youtu.be/y3XfjbwqC_g>
>
> One of my favourite song
> <http://trinityroots.bandcamp.com/track/all-we-be>s
>
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
> committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
> unsubscribe)
>



-- 
Nagaraj Paturi

Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.

Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies

FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of  Liberal Education,

(Pune, Maharashtra, INDIA )


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From tylerwwilliams at gmail.com  Wed Sep 14 10:12:52 2016
From: tylerwwilliams at gmail.com (Tyler Williams)
Date: Wed, 14 Sep 16 15:42:52 +0530
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Hindu and Islamic Traditions in the Eighteenth Century
In-Reply-To: <mailman.19.1473845220.26890.indology_list.indology.info@list.indology.info>
Message-ID: <CAHRgzy0j8U0wrNi6z873kczvoBWj8F76Hxz4MCL+Bwcp0Co4VA@mail.gmail.com>

Dear James,

I've found that some of the best materials to teach with for the 19th
century are Francis Robinson's and Barbara Metcalf's writings on Islamic
intellectuals in UP, Vasudha Dalmia's writings on Bhartendu Harishchandra,
and Tanika Sarkar's writings on Hindu women. (Although I have to admit that
I have to pick and choose portions of their writings, since their
monographs are usually too large for undergraduate courses.)  In any case,
those are my personal favorites.

Not long ago, John S. Hawley at Barnard taught an excellent course on
religious history in Mughal India with a very comprehensive and up-to-date
syllabus; I'm sure that he would be willing to share it (I can't seem to
find a copy at the moment...)

Best,
Tyler


On Wed, Sep 14, 2016 at 2:57 PM, James Hegarty via INDOLOGY <
indology at list.indology.info> wrote:

> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
> committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
> unsubscribe)
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: James Hegarty <hegartyjm at googlemail.com>
> To: indology <indology at list.indology.info>
> Cc:
> Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2016 10:26:16 +0100
> Subject: Hindu and Islamic Traditions in the Eighteenth Century
> Dear Colleagues,
>
> I am currently preparing a new undergraduate course on the religious
> history of  South Asia from the early sixteenth century to present.
>
> I am looking for recommendations for studies of Hindu and Islamic
> movements in the eighteenth century in particular (I have plenty of
> material on the Sikhs).
>
> Any suggestions will be gratefully received!
>
> With Thanks and Best Wishes,
>
> James Hegarty
> Cardiff University
>
>


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From karp at uw.edu.pl  Wed Sep 14 10:49:59 2016
From: karp at uw.edu.pl (Artur Karp)
Date: Wed, 14 Sep 16 12:49:59 +0200
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Two terms
In-Reply-To: <E050ED76-AB50-4711-BBC4-3FA7CC8B69E1@t-online.de>
Message-ID: <CALNcvFsk-ThpnbJAybVCcBc3hU2wC8ByD9OnU5tDR7NB-3tU_w@mail.gmail.com>

> the word v??a means predators in other contexts too

Dear Petra,

Are there any contexts in which v??a could mean serpents?

Best,

Artur Karp

2016-09-14 10:51 GMT+02:00 petra kieffer-p?lz <kiepue at t-online.de>:

> Dear Artur,
>
> the Sinhala Th?pava?saya has been translated by S. Berkwitz, The
> Enshrining of the Relics.
> On p. 131f. you'll find the translation of this passage as follows:
>
> "Dear boy! The enshrining of the relics has been done by King Aj?ta?atru.
> Create a suitable defense for them." The deity Vi?vakarma, who heard those
> words, came and prepared a device outfitted with figures of wild beasts,
> and created a device in the relic chamber out of wooden forms that held
> shining swords of crystal and that whirled around with a speed equal to
> that of the wind."
>
> By the way the word v??a means predators in other contexts too. Thus we
> have diwans (palla?ka) the feet of which are decorated with figures of
> beast of prey (Vin IV 299,21f.).
>
> Best,
> Petra Kieffer-P?lz
>
> Am 14.09.2016 um 08:45 schrieb Artur Karp:
>
> Dear List,
>
> Would anyone take pity on me and translate this bit of the Sinhalese text
> for me?
>
> [Sent by Rolf Heinrich Koch:]
>
> "daruva, Aj?ta?atru rajjuruvan visin dh?tu nidh?naya karavana lada, topi
> da ??a sudusu ?rak??vak karav" yi kiya.
> e bas ?s? Vi?vakam divyaputra avut vy?lar?pa yukta yantrayak yod? da??in
> ne?? karana lada d?payan dh?tu garbhayehi ?v??a puhupat ka?ugena
> v?nav?gayak h? sam?na v?gayen sis?r? divann? v?
> yantrayak mav?,...
>
> Sinhala Th?pava?saya (2007) p. 109sq.
>
> In advance, etc.
>
> I would be especially grateful for the meaning of vy?lar?pa -  as it is
> understood in the text: in the form of ferocius animal(s) [like tigers or
> lions] or serpent(s)?
>
>
> Artur
>
>
>
> 2016-09-12 17:19 GMT+02:00 Rolf Heinrich Koch <rolfheiner.koch at gmail.com>:
>
>> I am just working on Sinhalese sources of the Buddhacarita.
>>
>> Regarding *v??asa?gh?tayantan t*he Sinhala Th?pava?saya reads:
>>
>>
>> "daruva, Aj?ta?atru rajjuruvan visin dh?tu nidh?naya karavana lada, topi
>> da ??a sudusu ?rak??vak karav" yi kiya.
>> e bas ?s? Vi?vakam divyaputra avut vy?lar?pa yukta yantrayak yod? da??in
>> ne?? karana lada d?payan dh?tu garbhayehi ?v??a puhupat ka?ugena
>> v?nav?gayak h? sam?na v?gayen sis?r? divann? v?
>> yantrayak mav?,...
>>
>> Sinhala Th?pava?saya (2007) p. 109sq.
>>
>> Best
>>
>> Heiner
>>
>>
>> www.rolfheinrichkoch.wordpress.com
>>
>> Am 12.09.2016 um 15:03 schrieb Seishi Karashima:
>>
>> Dear colleagues,
>>
>> Almost identical passages are found in the *Th?pava?sa*: *The chronicle
>> of the Th?pa and the Th?pava?sa: Being a Translation and Edition of
>> V?cissaratthera?s Th?pava?sa*, by N.A. Jayawickrama, London 1971: Luzac
>> (Sacred Books of the Buddhists / Pali Text Society, v. 28; Unesco
>> Collection of Representative Works), pp. 182f.
>>
>> Jayawickrama translated the passages in question as follows:
>>
>> Sakka, the king of the deities addressed Vissakamma: 'Ajatasattu, my
>> dear, has done the enshrining of the relics ; you provide protection
>> there', and despatched him. He came and set up *a contraption with a
>> number of figures of ferocious animals* and setting up inside the relic
>> chamber (another contraption) which made the wooden figures bearing crystal
>> coloured swords revolve with the speed of the wind, he had it all joined
>> to one pin, had a rampart of granite in the form of a 'brick-hall' 6 built,
>> and having it covered on top with a single (stone-slab) had earth thrown in
>> and the ground levelled and had a granite thiipa established upon it. (*ibid.
>> *p. 46).
>>
>> Cf. also *D?ghanik?ya??hakath???k? L?natthava??an?*, ed. Lily De Silva,
>> London 1970: Luzac, vol. 2, p. 246, ll. 14ff. *v??asa?gh?tayantan ti **kakkhala?
>> pa?ibhayadassana? a??ama??apa?ib{h}addhagaman?dit?ya sa?gh??ita?
>> r?pakayanta?** yojesi. ten? ?ha ?ka??har?pak?n??ti ?di*.
>>
>> With best regards,
>> Seishi Karashima
>>
>> 2016-09-12 21:42 GMT+09:00 Madhav Deshpande <mmdesh at umich.edu>:
>>
>>> Hi Artur,
>>>
>>>      I checked Google Images for "Nagayantra", and there are several
>>> interesting diagrams and designs for such Yantras, some of which are
>>> evidently found in Thai Buddhist temples.  Here is a link:
>>>
>>> http://www.sak-yant.com/archive/108yant/payanakarach/yantpay
>>> anakarach.jpg
>>>
>>> Madhav
>>>
>>> On Mon, Sep 12, 2016 at 8:32 AM, Artur Karp < <karp at uw.edu.pl>
>>> karp at uw.edu.pl> wrote:
>>>
>>>> > contraption
>>>>
>>>> :)
>>>>
>>>> any image of ?
>>>>
>>>> 2016-09-12 14:29 GMT+02:00 Madhav Deshpande < <mmdesh at umich.edu>
>>>> mmdesh at umich.edu>:
>>>>
>>>>> Hi Artur,
>>>>>
>>>>>      It probably refers to some contraption surrounded by a host of
>>>>> serpents.  Serpents as guardians of hidden underground treasures is a
>>>>> reasonably common idea in Indian literature.
>>>>>
>>>>> Madhav
>>>>>
>>>>> On Mon, Sep 12, 2016 at 8:24 AM, Artur Karp < <karp at uw.edu.pl>
>>>>> karp at uw.edu.pl> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Dear Madhav,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The PTS,s Pali-English Dict.:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> *V??a* - [cp. late Sk. vy??a, see Geiger, *P. Gr*. ? 54?] I. a snake
>>>>>> Vism 312 (so read for *va?a*).- 2. a beast of prey [...] *v??a-miga*,
>>>>>> a beast of prey, predaceous animal, like tiger, leopard, etc. [...]
>>>>>>
>>>>>> When in search for the Elixir of immortality Garuda enters the
>>>>>> underworld, he kills *two serpents* hidden under the [eternally]
>>>>>> revolving wheel. (Mbh. I, 29. 3-9).
>>>>>>
>>>>>> When the relics of the Buddha are hidden by Ajatasattu in the
>>>>>> underground chamber, Vissakamma places over them, for their defence the
>>>>>> [eternally] revolving *v??a?sa?gh??a?yanta.*
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If *v??a* would mean "snake, serpent", then this could be one of the
>>>>>> tropes linking both the narrations.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> *Yanta *means "contrivance, artifice, instrument, machine,
>>>>>> mechanism" - in what way could it be constructed/pegged together - using
>>>>>> serpents? Ataching it to serpents? Giving it a serpentine look?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Artur
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
>>> committee)
>>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options
>>> or unsubscribe)
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> INDOLOGY mailing listINDOLOGY at list.indology.infoindology-owner@list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee)http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe)
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
>> committee)
>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
>> unsubscribe)
>>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
> committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
> unsubscribe)
>


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From harshadehejia at hotmail.com  Wed Sep 14 10:50:18 2016
From: harshadehejia at hotmail.com (Harsha Dehejia)
Date: Wed, 14 Sep 16 10:50:18 +0000
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Hindu and Islamic Traditions in the Eighteenth Century
In-Reply-To: <CAHRgzy0j8U0wrNi6z873kczvoBWj8F76Hxz4MCL+Bwcp0Co4VA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BLUPR19MB0225E16F86AC86646117B44AA0F10@BLUPR19MB0225.namprd19.prod.outlook.com>

Tyler:


Could I interject?


I am working on the so called Muslim Vasihnavas of  the 18th century in UP and Bengal.


Any material on this would be most helpful.


Kind regards,


Harsha

Prof. Harsha V. Dehejia


________________________________
From: INDOLOGY <indology-bounces at list.indology.info> on behalf of Tyler Williams <tylerwwilliams at gmail.com>
Sent: September 14, 2016 6:12 AM
To: James Hegarty
Cc: indology
Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] Hindu and Islamic Traditions in the Eighteenth Century

Dear James,

I've found that some of the best materials to teach with for the 19th century are Francis Robinson's and Barbara Metcalf's writings on Islamic intellectuals in UP, Vasudha Dalmia's writings on Bhartendu Harishchandra, and Tanika Sarkar's writings on Hindu women. (Although I have to admit that I have to pick and choose portions of their writings, since their monographs are usually too large for undergraduate courses.)  In any case, those are my personal favorites.

Not long ago, John S. Hawley at Barnard taught an excellent course on religious history in Mughal India with a very comprehensive and up-to-date syllabus; I'm sure that he would be willing to share it (I can't seem to find a copy at the moment...)

Best,
Tyler


On Wed, Sep 14, 2016 at 2:57 PM, James Hegarty via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info<mailto:indology at list.indology.info>> wrote:
_______________________________________________
INDOLOGY mailing list
INDOLOGY at list.indology.info<mailto:INDOLOGY at list.indology.info>
indology-owner at list.indology.info<mailto:indology-owner at list.indology.info> (messages to the list's managing committee)
http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe)

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: James Hegarty <hegartyjm at googlemail.com<mailto:hegartyjm at googlemail.com>>
To: indology <indology at list.indology.info<mailto:indology at list.indology.info>>
Cc:
Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2016 10:26:16 +0100
Subject: Hindu and Islamic Traditions in the Eighteenth Century
Dear Colleagues,

I am currently preparing a new undergraduate course on the religious history of  South Asia from the early sixteenth century to present.

I am looking for recommendations for studies of Hindu and Islamic movements in the eighteenth century in particular (I have plenty of material on the Sikhs).

Any suggestions will be gratefully received!

With Thanks and Best Wishes,

James Hegarty
Cardiff University




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From kiepue at t-online.de  Wed Sep 14 11:01:04 2016
From: kiepue at t-online.de (=?utf-8?Q?petra_kieffer-p=C3=BClz?=)
Date: Wed, 14 Sep 16 13:01:04 +0200
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Two terms
In-Reply-To: <CALNcvFsk-ThpnbJAybVCcBc3hU2wC8ByD9OnU5tDR7NB-3tU_w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <2B7D550A-2F67-4F81-8D5B-C39135383CA2@t-online.de>

not to my knowledge.

Best,
Petra

Am 14.09.2016 um 12:49 schrieb Artur Karp:

> > the word v??a means predators in other contexts too
> 
> Dear Petra, 
> 
> Are there any contexts in which v??a could mean serpents?
> 
> Best, 
> 
> Artur Karp
> 
> 2016-09-14 10:51 GMT+02:00 petra kieffer-p?lz <kiepue at t-online.de>:
> Dear Artur,
> 
> the Sinhala Th?pava?saya has been translated by S. Berkwitz, The Enshrining of the Relics.
> On p. 131f. you'll find the translation of this passage as follows:
> 
> "Dear boy! The enshrining of the relics has been done by King Aj?ta?atru. Create a suitable defense for them." The deity Vi?vakarma, who heard those words, came and prepared a device outfitted with figures of wild beasts, and created a device in the relic chamber out of wooden forms that held shining swords of crystal and that whirled around with a speed equal to that of the wind."
> 
> By the way the word v??a means predators in other contexts too. Thus we have diwans (palla?ka) the feet of which are decorated with figures of beast of prey (Vin IV 299,21f.).
> 
> Best,
> Petra Kieffer-P?lz
> 
> Am 14.09.2016 um 08:45 schrieb Artur Karp:
> 
>> Dear List, 
>> 
>> Would anyone take pity on me and translate this bit of the Sinhalese text for me?
>> 
>> [Sent by Rolf Heinrich Koch:]
>> 
>> "daruva, Aj?ta?atru rajjuruvan visin dh?tu nidh?naya karavana lada, topi da ??a sudusu ?rak??vak karav" yi kiya.
>> e bas ?s? Vi?vakam divyaputra avut vy?lar?pa yukta yantrayak yod? da??in ne?? karana lada d?payan dh?tu garbhayehi ?v??a puhupat ka?ugena v?nav?gayak h? sam?na v?gayen sis?r? divann? v? 
>> yantrayak mav?,...
>> 
>> Sinhala Th?pava?saya (2007) p. 109sq.
>> 
>> In advance, etc. 
>> 
>> I would be especially grateful for the meaning of vy?lar?pa -  as it is understood in the text: in the form of ferocius animal(s) [like tigers or lions] or serpent(s)?
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Artur
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 2016-09-12 17:19 GMT+02:00 Rolf Heinrich Koch <rolfheiner.koch at gmail.com>:
>> I am just working on Sinhalese sources of the Buddhacarita.
>> 
>> Regarding v??asa?gh?tayantan the Sinhala Th?pava?saya reads:
>> 
>> 
>> "daruva, Aj?ta?atru rajjuruvan visin dh?tu nidh?naya karavana lada, topi da ??a sudusu ?rak??vak karav" yi kiya.
>> e bas ?s? Vi?vakam divyaputra avut vy?lar?pa yukta yantrayak yod? da??in ne?? karana lada d?payan dh?tu garbhayehi ?v??a puhupat ka?ugena v?nav?gayak h? sam?na v?gayen sis?r? divann? v? 
>> yantrayak mav?,...
>> 
>> Sinhala Th?pava?saya (2007) p. 109sq.
>> 
>> Best 
>> Heiner
>> 
>> 
>> www.rolfheinrichkoch.wordpress.com
>> 
>> Am 12.09.2016 um 15:03 schrieb Seishi Karashima:
>>> Dear colleagues,
>>> 
>>> Almost identical passages are found in the Th?pava?sa: The chronicle of the Th?pa and the Th?pava?sa: Being a Translation and Edition of V?cissaratthera?s Th?pava?sa, by N.A. Jayawickrama, London 1971: Luzac (Sacred Books of the Buddhists / Pali Text Society, v. 28; Unesco Collection of Representative Works), pp. 182f.
>>> 
>>> Jayawickrama translated the passages in question as follows: 
>>> 
>>> Sakka, the king of the deities addressed Vissakamma: 'Ajatasattu, my dear, has done the enshrining of the relics ; you provide protection there', and despatched him. He came and set up a contraption with a number of figures of ferocious animals and setting up inside the relic chamber (another contraption) which made the wooden figures bearing crystal coloured swords revolve with the speed of the wind, he had it all joined to one pin, had a rampart of granite in the form of a 'brick-hall' 6 built, and having it covered on top with a single (stone-slab) had earth thrown in and the ground levelled and had a granite thiipa established upon it. (ibid. p. 46).
>>> 
>>> Cf. also D?ghanik?ya??hakath???k? L?natthava??an?, ed. Lily De Silva, London 1970: Luzac, vol. 2, p. 246, ll. 14ff.             v??asa?gh?tayantan ti kakkhala? pa?ibhayadassana? a??ama??apa?ib{h}addhagaman?dit?ya sa?gh??ita? r?pakayanta? yojesi. ten? ?ha ?ka??har?pak?n??ti ?di.
>>> 
>>> With best regards,
>>> Seishi Karashima
>>> 
>>> 2016-09-12 21:42 GMT+09:00 Madhav Deshpande <mmdesh at umich.edu>:
>>> Hi Artur,
>>> 
>>>      I checked Google Images for "Nagayantra", and there are several interesting diagrams and designs for such Yantras, some of which are evidently found in Thai Buddhist temples.  Here is a link:
>>> 
>>> http://www.sak-yant.com/archive/108yant/payanakarach/yantpayanakarach.jpg
>>> 
>>> Madhav
>>> 
>>> On Mon, Sep 12, 2016 at 8:32 AM, Artur Karp <karp at uw.edu.pl> wrote:
>>> > contraption
>>> 
>>> :)
>>> 
>>> any image of ?
>>> 
>>> 2016-09-12 14:29 GMT+02:00 Madhav Deshpande <mmdesh at umich.edu>:
>>> Hi Artur,
>>> 
>>>      It probably refers to some contraption surrounded by a host of serpents.  Serpents as guardians of hidden underground treasures is a reasonably common idea in Indian literature.
>>> 
>>> Madhav 
>>> 
>>> On Mon, Sep 12, 2016 at 8:24 AM, Artur Karp <karp at uw.edu.pl> wrote:
>>> Dear Madhav, 
>>> 
>>> The PTS,s Pali-English Dict.:
>>> 
>>> V??a - [cp. late Sk. vy??a, see Geiger, P. Gr. ? 54?] I. a snake Vism 312 (so read for va?a).- 2. a beast of prey [...] v??a-miga, a beast of prey,                                                   predaceous animal, like tiger, leopard, etc. [...]
>>> 
>>> When in search for the Elixir of immortality Garuda enters the underworld, he kills two serpents hidden under the [eternally] revolving wheel. (Mbh. I, 29. 3-9). 
>>> 
>>> When the relics of the Buddha are hidden by Ajatasattu in the underground chamber, Vissakamma places over them, for their defence the                                                   [eternally] revolving v??a?sa?gh??a?yanta.
>>> 
>>> If v??a would mean "snake, serpent", then this could be one of the tropes linking both the narrations.
>>> 
>>> Yanta means "contrivance, artifice, instrument, machine, mechanism" - in what way could it be constructed/pegged together - using serpents? Ataching it to serpents? Giving it a serpentine look?
>>> 
>>> Artur  
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee)
>>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe)
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
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>>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe)
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee)
>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe)
>> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
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> 



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From rolfheiner.koch at gmail.com  Wed Sep 14 12:42:18 2016
From: rolfheiner.koch at gmail.com (Rolf Heinrich Koch)
Date: Wed, 14 Sep 16 14:42:18 +0200
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Two terms
In-Reply-To: <2B7D550A-2F67-4F81-8D5B-C39135383CA2@t-online.de>
Message-ID: <b4532a7f-7b23-fc70-030a-690924e7e431@gmail.com>

vy?la = snake: in Cloughs Sinhalese English Dictionary:


Heiner


Am 14.09.2016 um 13:01 schrieb petra kieffer-p?lz:
> not to my knowledge.
>
> Best,
> Petra
>
> Am 14.09.2016 um 12:49 schrieb Artur Karp:
>
>> > the word v??a means predators in other contexts too
>>
>> Dear Petra,
>>
>> Are there any contexts in which v??a could mean serpents?
>>
>> Best,
>>
>> Artur Karp
>>
>> 2016-09-14 10:51 GMT+02:00 petra kieffer-p?lz <kiepue at t-online.de 
>> <mailto:kiepue at t-online.de>>:
>>
>>     Dear Artur,
>>
>>     the Sinhala Th?pava?saya has been translated by S. Berkwitz, The
>>     Enshrining of the Relics.
>>     On p. 131f. you'll find the translation of this passage as follows:
>>
>>     "Dear boy! The enshrining of the relics has been done by King
>>     Aj?ta?atru. Create a suitable defense for them." The deity
>>     Vi?vakarma, who heard those words, came and prepared a device
>>     outfitted with figures of wild beasts, and created a device in
>>     the relic chamber out of wooden forms that held shining swords of
>>     crystal and that whirled around with a speed equal to that of the
>>     wind."
>>
>>     By the way the word v??a means predators in other contexts too.
>>     Thus we have diwans (palla?ka) the feet of which are decorated
>>     with figures of beast of prey (Vin IV 299,21f.).
>>
>>     Best,
>>     Petra Kieffer-P?lz
>>
>>     Am 14.09.2016 um 08:45 schrieb Artur Karp:
>>
>>>     Dear List,
>>>
>>>     Would anyone take pity on me and translate this bit of the
>>>     Sinhalese text for me?
>>>
>>>     [Sent by Rolf Heinrich Koch:]
>>>
>>>     "daruva, Aj?ta?atru rajjuruvan visin dh?tu nidh?naya karavana
>>>     lada, topi da ??a sudusu ?rak??vak karav" yi kiya.
>>>     e bas ?s? Vi?vakam divyaputra avut vy?lar?pa yukta yantrayak
>>>     yod? da??in ne?? karana lada d?payan dh?tu garbhayehi ?v??a
>>>     puhupat ka?ugena v?nav?gayak h? sam?na v?gayen sis?r? divann? v?
>>>     yantrayak mav?,...
>>>
>>>     Sinhala Th?pava?saya (2007) p. 109sq.
>>>
>>>     In advance, etc.
>>>
>>>     I would be especially grateful for the meaning of vy?lar?pa -
>>>      as it is understood in the text: in the form of ferocius
>>>     animal(s) [like tigers or lions]or serpent(s)?
>>>
>>>
>>>     Artur
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>     2016-09-12 17:19 GMT+02:00 Rolf Heinrich Koch
>>>     <rolfheiner.koch at gmail.com <mailto:rolfheiner.koch at gmail.com>>:
>>>
>>>         I am just working on Sinhalese sources of the Buddhacarita.
>>>
>>>         Regarding /v??asa?gh?tayantan t/he Sinhala Th?pava?saya reads:
>>>
>>>
>>>         "daruva, Aj?ta?atru rajjuruvan visin dh?tu nidh?naya
>>>         karavana lada, topi da ??a sudusu ?rak??vak karav" yi kiya.
>>>         e bas ?s? Vi?vakam divyaputra avut vy?lar?pa yukta yantrayak
>>>         yod? da??in ne?? karana lada d?payan dh?tu garbhayehi ?v??a
>>>         puhupat ka?ugena v?nav?gayak h? sam?na v?gayen sis?r?
>>>         divann? v?
>>>         yantrayak mav?,...
>>>
>>>         Sinhala Th?pava?saya (2007) p. 109sq.
>>>
>>>         Best
>>>
>>>         Heiner
>>>
>>>
>>>         www.rolfheinrichkoch.wordpress.com
>>>         <http://www.rolfheinrichkoch.wordpress.com/>
>>>
>>>
>>>         Am 12.09.2016 um 15:03 schrieb Seishi Karashima:
>>>>         Dear colleagues,
>>>>
>>>>         Almost identical passages are found in the /Th?pava?sa/:
>>>>         /The chronicle of the Th?pa and the Th?pava?sa: Being a
>>>>         Translation and Edition of V?cissaratthera?s Th?pava?sa/,
>>>>         by N.A. Jayawickrama, London 1971: Luzac (Sacred Books of
>>>>         the Buddhists / Pali Text Society, v. 28; Unesco Collection
>>>>         of Representative Works), pp. 182f.
>>>>
>>>>         Jayawickrama translated the passages in question as follows:
>>>>
>>>>         Sakka, the king of the deities addressed Vissakamma:
>>>>         'Ajatasattu, my dear, has done the enshrining of the relics
>>>>         ; you provide protection there', and despatched him. He
>>>>         came and set up *a contraption with a number of figures of
>>>>         ferocious animals* and setting up inside the relic chamber
>>>>         (another contraption) which made the wooden figures bearing
>>>>         crystal coloured swords revolve with the speed of the wind,
>>>>         he had it all joined to one pin, had a rampart of granite
>>>>         in the form of a 'brick-hall' 6 built, and having it
>>>>         covered on top with a single (stone-slab) had earth thrown
>>>>         in and the ground levelled and had a granite thiipa
>>>>         established upon it. (/ibid. /p. 46).
>>>>
>>>>         Cf. also /D?ghanik?ya??hakath???k? L?natthava??an?/, ed.
>>>>         Lily De Silva, London 1970: Luzac, vol. 2, p. 246, ll.
>>>>         14ff. /v??asa?gh?tayantan ti //kakkhala? pa?ibhayadassana?
>>>>         a??ama??apa?ib{h}addhagaman?dit?ya sa?gh??ita?
>>>>         r?pakayanta?//yojesi. ten? ?ha ?ka??har?pak?n??ti ?di/.
>>>>
>>>>         With best regards,
>>>>         Seishi Karashima
>>>>
>>>>         2016-09-12 21:42 GMT+09:00 Madhav Deshpande
>>>>         <mmdesh at umich.edu <mailto:mmdesh at umich.edu>>:
>>>>
>>>>             Hi Artur,
>>>>
>>>>                  I checked Google Images for "Nagayantra", and
>>>>             there are several interesting diagrams and designs for
>>>>             such Yantras, some of which are evidently found in Thai
>>>>             Buddhist temples.  Here is a link:
>>>>
>>>>             http://www.sak-yant.com/archive/108yant/payanakarach/yantpayanakarach.jpg
>>>>             <http://www.sak-yant.com/archive/108yant/payanakarach/yantpayanakarach.jpg>
>>>>
>>>>             Madhav
>>>>
>>>>             On Mon, Sep 12, 2016 at 8:32 AM, Artur Karp
>>>>             <karp at uw.edu.pl <mailto:karp at uw.edu.pl>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>                 > contraption
>>>>
>>>>                 :)
>>>>
>>>>                 any image of ?
>>>>
>>>>                 2016-09-12 14:29 GMT+02:00 Madhav Deshpande
>>>>                 <mmdesh at umich.edu <mailto:mmdesh at umich.edu>>:
>>>>
>>>>                     Hi Artur,
>>>>
>>>>                          It probably refers to some contraption
>>>>                     surrounded by a host of serpents. Serpents as
>>>>                     guardians of hidden underground treasures is a
>>>>                     reasonably common idea in Indian literature.
>>>>
>>>>                     Madhav
>>>>
>>>>                     On Mon, Sep 12, 2016 at 8:24 AM, Artur Karp
>>>>                     <karp at uw.edu.pl <mailto:karp at uw.edu.pl>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>                         Dear Madhav,
>>>>
>>>>                         The PTS,s Pali-English Dict.:
>>>>
>>>>                         *V??a* - [cp. late Sk. vy??a, see Geiger,
>>>>                         /P. Gr/. ? 54?] I. a snake Vism 312 (so
>>>>                         read for *va?a*).- 2. a beast of prey [...]
>>>>                         *v??a-miga*, a beast of prey, predaceous
>>>>                         animal, like tiger, leopard, etc. [...]
>>>>
>>>>                         When in search for the Elixir of
>>>>                         immortality Garuda enters the underworld,
>>>>                         he kills *two serpents* hidden under the
>>>>                         [eternally] revolving wheel. (Mbh. I, 29.
>>>>                         3-9).
>>>>
>>>>                         When the relics of the Buddha are hidden by
>>>>                         Ajatasattu in the underground chamber,
>>>>                         Vissakamma places over them, for their
>>>>                         defence the [eternally] revolving
>>>>                         *v??a?sa?gh??a?yanta.*
>>>>                         *
>>>>                         *
>>>>                         If *v??a* would mean "snake, serpent", then
>>>>                         this could be one of the tropes linking
>>>>                         both the narrations.
>>>>
>>>>                         *Yanta *means "contrivance, artifice,
>>>>                         instrument, machine, mechanism" - in what
>>>>                         way could it be constructed/pegged together
>>>>                         - using serpents? Ataching it to serpents?
>>>>                         Giving it a serpentine look?
>>>>
>>>>                         Artur
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>             _______________________________________________
>>>>             INDOLOGY mailing list
>>>>             INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>>>>             <mailto:INDOLOGY at list.indology.info>
>>>>             indology-owner at list.indology.info
>>>>             <mailto:indology-owner at list.indology.info> (messages to
>>>>             the list's managing committee)
>>>>             http://listinfo.indology.info
>>>>             <http://listinfo.indology.info/> (where you can change
>>>>             your list options or unsubscribe)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>         _______________________________________________
>>>>         INDOLOGY mailing list
>>>>         INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>>>>         <mailto:INDOLOGY at list.indology.info>
>>>>         indology-owner at list.indology.info
>>>>         <mailto:indology-owner at list.indology.info>  (messages to the list's managing committee)
>>>>         http://listinfo.indology.info <http://listinfo.indology.info/>  (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe)
>>>         _______________________________________________ INDOLOGY
>>>         mailing list INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>>>         <mailto:INDOLOGY at list.indology.info>
>>>         indology-owner at list.indology.info
>>>         <mailto:indology-owner at list.indology.info> (messages to the
>>>         list's managing committee) http://listinfo.indology.info
>>>         <http://listinfo.indology.info/> (where you can change your
>>>         list options or unsubscribe) 
>>>
>>     _______________________________________________ INDOLOGY mailing
>>     list INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>>     <mailto:INDOLOGY at list.indology.info>
>>     indology-owner at list.indology.info
>>     <mailto:indology-owner at list.indology.info> (messages to the
>>     list's managing committee) http://listinfo.indology.info
>>     <http://listinfo.indology.info/> (where you can change your list
>>     options or unsubscribe) 
>>
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe)
-- 
www.rolfheinrichkoch.wordpress.com


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From alex.watson at ashoka.edu.in  Wed Sep 14 17:09:36 2016
From: alex.watson at ashoka.edu.in (Alex Watson)
Date: Wed, 14 Sep 16 22:39:36 +0530
Subject: [INDOLOGY] INDOLOGY Digest, Vol 44, Issue 15
In-Reply-To: <mailman.60.1473868816.24588.indology_list.indology.info@list.indology.info>
Message-ID: <CA+H=kyS6HTEaUwX3iyz7b78Ad_8AAohHdc8Hmo8sRMN5gMqnoQ@mail.gmail.com>

>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: Dean Michael Anderson <eastwestcultural at yahoo.com>
> To: patrick mccartney <psdmccartney at gmail.com>, Indology List <
> indology at list.indology.info>
> Cc:
> Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2016 08:08:56 +0000 (UTC)
> Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] pa?cako?a
> They are mentioned in the Vivekachudamani ascribed to Adi Shankaracharya.
>

But unlikely to have actually been composed by him.
See, for example, the wonderful article by Ingalls (1952), attached to this
mail.
Incidentally I think this article would be a good thing for Rajiv Malhotra
to read.

Yours Alex
-- 
Alex Watson
Professor of Indian Philosophy
Ashoka University
*https://ashokauniversity.academia.edu/AlexWatson
<https://ashokauniversity.academia.edu/AlexWatson>*


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From rolfheiner.koch at gmail.com  Wed Sep 14 19:26:04 2016
From: rolfheiner.koch at gmail.com (Rolf Heinrich Koch)
Date: Wed, 14 Sep 16 21:26:04 +0200
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Two terms
In-Reply-To: <2B7D550A-2F67-4F81-8D5B-C39135383CA2@t-online.de>
Message-ID: <a77f6d3a-fdae-e23e-283a-1623eb00f4b1@gmail.com>

Dear Artur

regarding your question v??a = snake in P?li-sources  please see two 
references from the J?takas according to

W. Geiger (1916), P?li. Literatur und Sprache, p. 66: v??a "Raubtier, 
Schlange" J?. VI 497 (13) and J?Co. I 99 (14).

Best

Rolf Heinrich Koch


Am 14.09.2016 um 13:01 schrieb petra kieffer-p?lz:
> not to my knowledge.
>
> Best,
> Petra
>
> Am 14.09.2016 um 12:49 schrieb Artur Karp:
>
>> > the word v??a means predators in other contexts too
>>
>> Dear Petra,
>>
>> Are there any contexts in which v??a could mean serpents?
>>
>> Best,
>>
>> Artur Karp
>>
>> 2016-09-14 10:51 GMT+02:00 petra kieffer-p?lz <kiepue at t-online.de 
>> <mailto:kiepue at t-online.de>>:
>>
>>     Dear Artur,
>>
>>     the Sinhala Th?pava?saya has been translated by S. Berkwitz, The
>>     Enshrining of the Relics.
>>     On p. 131f. you'll find the translation of this passage as follows:
>>
>>     "Dear boy! The enshrining of the relics has been done by King
>>     Aj?ta?atru. Create a suitable defense for them." The deity
>>     Vi?vakarma, who heard those words, came and prepared a device
>>     outfitted with figures of wild beasts, and created a device in
>>     the relic chamber out of wooden forms that held shining swords of
>>     crystal and that whirled around with a speed equal to that of the
>>     wind."
>>
>>     By the way the word v??a means predators in other contexts too.
>>     Thus we have diwans (palla?ka) the feet of which are decorated
>>     with figures of beast of prey (Vin IV 299,21f.).
>>
>>     Best,
>>     Petra Kieffer-P?lz
>>
>>     Am 14.09.2016 um 08:45 schrieb Artur Karp:
>>
>>>     Dear List,
>>>
>>>     Would anyone take pity on me and translate this bit of the
>>>     Sinhalese text for me?
>>>
>>>     [Sent by Rolf Heinrich Koch:]
>>>
>>>     "daruva, Aj?ta?atru rajjuruvan visin dh?tu nidh?naya karavana
>>>     lada, topi da ??a sudusu ?rak??vak karav" yi kiya.
>>>     e bas ?s? Vi?vakam divyaputra avut vy?lar?pa yukta yantrayak
>>>     yod? da??in ne?? karana lada d?payan dh?tu garbhayehi ?v??a
>>>     puhupat ka?ugena v?nav?gayak h? sam?na v?gayen sis?r? divann? v?
>>>     yantrayak mav?,...
>>>
>>>     Sinhala Th?pava?saya (2007) p. 109sq.
>>>
>>>     In advance, etc.
>>>
>>>     I would be especially grateful for the meaning of vy?lar?pa -
>>>      as it is understood in the text: in the form of ferocius
>>>     animal(s) [like tigers or lions]or serpent(s)?
>>>
>>>
>>>     Artur
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>     2016-09-12 17:19 GMT+02:00 Rolf Heinrich Koch
>>>     <rolfheiner.koch at gmail.com <mailto:rolfheiner.koch at gmail.com>>:
>>>
>>>         I am just working on Sinhalese sources of the Buddhacarita.
>>>
>>>         Regarding /v??asa?gh?tayantan t/he Sinhala Th?pava?saya reads:
>>>
>>>
>>>         "daruva, Aj?ta?atru rajjuruvan visin dh?tu nidh?naya
>>>         karavana lada, topi da ??a sudusu ?rak??vak karav" yi kiya.
>>>         e bas ?s? Vi?vakam divyaputra avut vy?lar?pa yukta yantrayak
>>>         yod? da??in ne?? karana lada d?payan dh?tu garbhayehi ?v??a
>>>         puhupat ka?ugena v?nav?gayak h? sam?na v?gayen sis?r?
>>>         divann? v?
>>>         yantrayak mav?,...
>>>
>>>         Sinhala Th?pava?saya (2007) p. 109sq.
>>>
>>>         Best
>>>
>>>         Heiner
>>>
>>>
>>>         www.rolfheinrichkoch.wordpress.com
>>>         <http://www.rolfheinrichkoch.wordpress.com/>
>>>
>>>
>>>         Am 12.09.2016 um 15:03 schrieb Seishi Karashima:
>>>>         Dear colleagues,
>>>>
>>>>         Almost identical passages are found in the /Th?pava?sa/:
>>>>         /The chronicle of the Th?pa and the Th?pava?sa: Being a
>>>>         Translation and Edition of V?cissaratthera?s Th?pava?sa/,
>>>>         by N.A. Jayawickrama, London 1971: Luzac (Sacred Books of
>>>>         the Buddhists / Pali Text Society, v. 28; Unesco Collection
>>>>         of Representative Works), pp. 182f.
>>>>
>>>>         Jayawickrama translated the passages in question as follows:
>>>>
>>>>         Sakka, the king of the deities addressed Vissakamma:
>>>>         'Ajatasattu, my dear, has done the enshrining of the relics
>>>>         ; you provide protection there', and despatched him. He
>>>>         came and set up *a contraption with a number of figures of
>>>>         ferocious animals* and setting up inside the relic chamber
>>>>         (another contraption) which made the wooden figures bearing
>>>>         crystal coloured swords revolve with the speed of the wind,
>>>>         he had it all joined to one pin, had a rampart of granite
>>>>         in the form of a 'brick-hall' 6 built, and having it
>>>>         covered on top with a single (stone-slab) had earth thrown
>>>>         in and the ground levelled and had a granite thiipa
>>>>         established upon it. (/ibid. /p. 46).
>>>>
>>>>         Cf. also /D?ghanik?ya??hakath???k? L?natthava??an?/, ed.
>>>>         Lily De Silva, London 1970: Luzac, vol. 2, p. 246, ll.
>>>>         14ff. /v??asa?gh?tayantan ti //kakkhala? pa?ibhayadassana?
>>>>         a??ama??apa?ib{h}addhagaman?dit?ya sa?gh??ita?
>>>>         r?pakayanta?//yojesi. ten? ?ha ?ka??har?pak?n??ti ?di/.
>>>>
>>>>         With best regards,
>>>>         Seishi Karashima
>>>>
>>>>         2016-09-12 21:42 GMT+09:00 Madhav Deshpande
>>>>         <mmdesh at umich.edu <mailto:mmdesh at umich.edu>>:
>>>>
>>>>             Hi Artur,
>>>>
>>>>                  I checked Google Images for "Nagayantra", and
>>>>             there are several interesting diagrams and designs for
>>>>             such Yantras, some of which are evidently found in Thai
>>>>             Buddhist temples.  Here is a link:
>>>>
>>>>             http://www.sak-yant.com/archive/108yant/payanakarach/yantpayanakarach.jpg
>>>>             <http://www.sak-yant.com/archive/108yant/payanakarach/yantpayanakarach.jpg>
>>>>
>>>>             Madhav
>>>>
>>>>             On Mon, Sep 12, 2016 at 8:32 AM, Artur Karp
>>>>             <karp at uw.edu.pl <mailto:karp at uw.edu.pl>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>                 > contraption
>>>>
>>>>                 :)
>>>>
>>>>                 any image of ?
>>>>
>>>>                 2016-09-12 14:29 GMT+02:00 Madhav Deshpande
>>>>                 <mmdesh at umich.edu <mailto:mmdesh at umich.edu>>:
>>>>
>>>>                     Hi Artur,
>>>>
>>>>                          It probably refers to some contraption
>>>>                     surrounded by a host of serpents. Serpents as
>>>>                     guardians of hidden underground treasures is a
>>>>                     reasonably common idea in Indian literature.
>>>>
>>>>                     Madhav
>>>>
>>>>                     On Mon, Sep 12, 2016 at 8:24 AM, Artur Karp
>>>>                     <karp at uw.edu.pl <mailto:karp at uw.edu.pl>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>                         Dear Madhav,
>>>>
>>>>                         The PTS,s Pali-English Dict.:
>>>>
>>>>                         *V??a* - [cp. late Sk. vy??a, see Geiger,
>>>>                         /P. Gr/. ? 54?] I. a snake Vism 312 (so
>>>>                         read for *va?a*).- 2. a beast of prey [...]
>>>>                         *v??a-miga*, a beast of prey, predaceous
>>>>                         animal, like tiger, leopard, etc. [...]
>>>>
>>>>                         When in search for the Elixir of
>>>>                         immortality Garuda enters the underworld,
>>>>                         he kills *two serpents* hidden under the
>>>>                         [eternally] revolving wheel. (Mbh. I, 29.
>>>>                         3-9).
>>>>
>>>>                         When the relics of the Buddha are hidden by
>>>>                         Ajatasattu in the underground chamber,
>>>>                         Vissakamma places over them, for their
>>>>                         defence the [eternally] revolving
>>>>                         *v??a?sa?gh??a?yanta.*
>>>>                         *
>>>>                         *
>>>>                         If *v??a* would mean "snake, serpent", then
>>>>                         this could be one of the tropes linking
>>>>                         both the narrations.
>>>>
>>>>                         *Yanta *means "contrivance, artifice,
>>>>                         instrument, machine, mechanism" - in what
>>>>                         way could it be constructed/pegged together
>>>>                         - using serpents? Ataching it to serpents?
>>>>                         Giving it a serpentine look?
>>>>
>>>>                         Artur
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>             _______________________________________________
>>>>             INDOLOGY mailing list
>>>>             INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>>>>             <mailto:INDOLOGY at list.indology.info>
>>>>             indology-owner at list.indology.info
>>>>             <mailto:indology-owner at list.indology.info> (messages to
>>>>             the list's managing committee)
>>>>             http://listinfo.indology.info
>>>>             <http://listinfo.indology.info/> (where you can change
>>>>             your list options or unsubscribe)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>         _______________________________________________
>>>>         INDOLOGY mailing list
>>>>         INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>>>>         <mailto:INDOLOGY at list.indology.info>
>>>>         indology-owner at list.indology.info
>>>>         <mailto:indology-owner at list.indology.info>  (messages to the list's managing committee)
>>>>         http://listinfo.indology.info <http://listinfo.indology.info/>  (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe)
>>>         _______________________________________________ INDOLOGY
>>>         mailing list INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>>>         <mailto:INDOLOGY at list.indology.info>
>>>         indology-owner at list.indology.info
>>>         <mailto:indology-owner at list.indology.info> (messages to the
>>>         list's managing committee) http://listinfo.indology.info
>>>         <http://listinfo.indology.info/> (where you can change your
>>>         list options or unsubscribe) 
>>>
>>     _______________________________________________ INDOLOGY mailing
>>     list INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>>     <mailto:INDOLOGY at list.indology.info>
>>     indology-owner at list.indology.info
>>     <mailto:indology-owner at list.indology.info> (messages to the
>>     list's managing committee) http://listinfo.indology.info
>>     <http://listinfo.indology.info/> (where you can change your list
>>     options or unsubscribe) 
>>
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe)
-- 
www.rolfheinrichkoch.wordpress.com


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From m.gluckman at anu.edu.au  Wed Sep 14 19:37:17 2016
From: m.gluckman at anu.edu.au (Martin Gluckman)
Date: Thu, 15 Sep 16 01:07:17 +0530
Subject: =?utf-8?Q?[INDOLOGY]_A_workshop_on_P=C4=81=E1=B9=87ini=E2=80=99s_A=E1=B9=A3=E1=B9=AD=C4=81dhy=C4=81y=C4=AB_with_Dr._Rama_Nath_Sharma_in_India?=
Message-ID: <CA+wUuzMtJ-Eq804F-1ERkV-+mG-snR3LLRyjpX5KDfeD9F4avQ@mail.gmail.com>

Dearest Friends,

I am delighted to announce the 2nd workshop on P??ini?s A???dhy?y? to be
conducted by Dr. Rama Nath Sharma (Professor Emeritus University of Hawaii)
in Auroville, India.

A detailed synopsis is attached along with a poster to kindly circulate.

Date: 12-16th November 2016

Venue: Tibetan Pavilion, Auroville

Registration: http://www.dl.gt/panini2016

Kindest Wishes,

Martin Gluckman


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From nagarajpaturi at gmail.com  Thu Sep 15 06:25:02 2016
From: nagarajpaturi at gmail.com (Nagaraj Paturi)
Date: Thu, 15 Sep 16 11:55:02 +0530
Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_[INDOLOGY]_pa=C3=B1cako=C5=9Ba?=
In-Reply-To: <CAJGj9eZKdVSZvj72AX6HnvxjvuGEN0z06rG2p4b1skQ2nL9QjQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAJGj9eZYfn2tqD1u1Jya7H3u4P4Rkf0qOPfEejFrti8FDWrT2g@mail.gmail.com>

Since you mentioned "anthropology of tourism and embodiment" the post by
Prof. Artur Karp on the Sati myth explaining the locations of ????da?a
?akti p??has which is discussed in various books on ?akti p??has exactly
fits here.

I saw an English book on ?akti p??has which my  late father consulted
during his research on the concept.  I am trying to recollect /locate the
same.

v?stu puru?a is an example of embodiment of space which is more
relevant here.

For that matter , the concept of vir?? puru?a , its exposition in puru?a
s?kta are examples of the significance of the concept of embodiment
including that of space in Vedic lore.

 Saskia C. Kersenboom-Story 's book Nityasumangali has a discussion on
Temple structure and its relation to the concept of body according to Yoga.
(This is a frequently discussed idea in many books on Hindu temple.)



On Wed, Sep 14, 2016 at 3:40 PM, Nagaraj Paturi <nagarajpaturi at gmail.com>
wrote:

> Dear Patrick,
>
>  *vedam?rti* and *??ntam?rti *kind of metaphors belong to a different
> category. They belong to the category of figurative expressions. We have a
> huge number of them.
>
> dharmam?rti, gurum?rti are the most frequent.
>
> r?m? vigrahav?n dharmah type statements are similar.
>
> ?tman as 'embodied' is found in expressions such as ??r?raka m?m?ms? as
> the name for Brhmasutra( Bhashya)
>
> Cpomparable to k??as is sth?la ?ar?ra, s?k?ma ?ar?ra, k?ra?a (linga)
> ?ar?ra. .
>
> On Wed, Sep 14, 2016 at 2:39 PM, "Travis L. Smith" <tlsmith at snu.ac.kr>
> wrote:
>
>> Dear Patrick,
>>
>>
>> I think the *locus classicus* is Taittir?ya Up. 2.2, though the term
>> *ko?a* is only used later: there, five "bodies" (*?tman*) are described.
>> I assume the term *ko?a *came about because later Ved?ntins
>> obviously used the term *?tman* only in a very precise technical sense,
>> whereas in the Upani?ads the term was used a lot more fluidly.
>>
>>
>> All best,
>>
>>
>> Travis
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> Travis L. Smith
>>
>> Associate Professor
>>
>> Department of Asian Languages and Civilizations
>>
>> Seoul National University
>>
>> --------- ?? ?? ---------
>>
>> *????* : patrick mccartney <psdmccartney at gmail.com>
>> *????* : Indology List <indology at list.indology.info>
>> *??* : 2016? 9? 14?(?) 16:25:34
>> *??* : [INDOLOGY] pa?cako?a
>>
>> Dear Friends,
>>
>> I'm writing a book chapter about the anthropology of tourism and
>> embodiment. I have decided to include various 'yogic' perspectives. I am
>> considering how to include classical ideas like *pa?cako?a* concept with
>> contemporary practitioner-based ideas of embodiment.
>>
>> I would appreciate any suggestions and specific textual references that
>> possibly discuss the idea of 'embodiment'. Two that come to mind are
>> *vedam?rti* and *??ntam?rti*. Another is *sam?dhivigraha*, however, I do
>> not as yet have any textual sources for this term.
>>
>> I am curious to know about the first attested mention of the *pa?cako?a*?
>> I am reading through the *pa?cada??* text, which I have found mention in
>> secondary literature was maybe written in the 14th century. Although my
>> assumption is that the *pa?cako?a* concept appears earlier than that.
>>
>> Thanks in advance.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> All the best,
>>
>> Patrick McCartney, PhD
>> Fellow
>> School of Culture, History & Language
>> College of the Asia-Pacific
>> The Australian National University
>> Canberra, Australia, 0200
>>
>>
>> Skype - psdmccartney
>> Phone + Whatsapp:  +61 414 954 748
>> Twitter - @psdmccartney
>>
>> academia <https://anu-au.academia.edu/patrickmccartney>
>>
>>    -
>>
>> Linkedin
>> <https://www.linkedin.com/profile/view?id=241756978&trk=nav_responsive_tab_profile>
>>
>> #yogabodyANU2016 symposium
>> <http://chl.anu.edu.au/news-events/events/658/yoga-and-body-past-and-present-symposium?#tab>
>>
>> <http://chl.anu.edu.au/news-events/events/658/yoga-and-body-past-and-present-symposium?#tab>
>>
>> Ep1 - Imagining Sanskrit Land <https://youtu.be/jMi7tkPBbJ4>
>>
>> Ep 2 - Total-am <https://youtu.be/7tAp8m9RHPU>
>>
>> Ep 3 - Jalam ? Chillum <https://youtu.be/cLZeuCT_mwQ>
>>
>> Ep 4 - It's Time to get Married
>> <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_B3un7aHEAc>
>>
>> A Day in our Ashram
>> <https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=ek+din+hamaare+ashram+mein>
>>
>> Stop animation short film of Shakuntala
>> <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LVqBD_2P4Pg>
>>
>> Forced to Clean Human Waste <http://youtu.be/y3XfjbwqC_g>
>>
>> One of my favourite song
>> <http://trinityroots.bandcamp.com/track/all-we-be>s
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
>> committee)
>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
>> unsubscribe)
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Nagaraj Paturi
>
> Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.
>
> Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies
>
> FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of  Liberal Education,
>
> (Pune, Maharashtra, INDIA )
>
>
>
>



-- 
Nagaraj Paturi

Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.

Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies

FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of  Liberal Education,

(Pune, Maharashtra, INDIA )


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From mkapstei at uchicago.edu  Thu Sep 15 08:09:09 2016
From: mkapstei at uchicago.edu (Matthew Kapstein)
Date: Thu, 15 Sep 16 08:09:09 +0000
Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_[INDOLOGY]_pa=C3=B1cako=C5=9Ba?=
In-Reply-To: <CAJGj9eZYfn2tqD1u1Jya7H3u4P4Rkf0qOPfEejFrti8FDWrT2g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <82C3E42590D939418C74DD76B97DDED047BC5E77@xm-mbx-06-prod>

>I saw an English book on ?akti p??has which my  late father consulted during his research on the concept.

Probably D.C. Sircar, The ?akta p??has.
Motilal Banarsidass keeps it in print.

Matthew Kapstein
Directeur d'?tudes,
Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes

Numata Visiting Professor of Buddhist Studies,
The University of Chicago
________________________________



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From nagarajpaturi at gmail.com  Thu Sep 15 09:15:28 2016
From: nagarajpaturi at gmail.com (Nagaraj Paturi)
Date: Thu, 15 Sep 16 14:45:28 +0530
Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_[INDOLOGY]_pa=C3=B1cako=C5=9Ba?=
In-Reply-To: <82C3E42590D939418C74DD76B97DDED047BC5E77@xm-mbx-06-prod>
Message-ID: <CAJGj9eZNtsgouF8q07CFK=Xb_PY+24aG=1uwMburQcbc1r+gyw@mail.gmail.com>

Yes, I think, you are right.

On Thu, Sep 15, 2016 at 1:39 PM, Matthew Kapstein <mkapstei at uchicago.edu>
wrote:

> >I saw an English book on ?akti p??has which my  late father consulted
> during his research on the concept.
>
> Probably D.C. Sircar, The ?akta p??has.
> Motilal Banarsidass keeps it in print.
>
> Matthew Kapstein
> Directeur d'?tudes,
> Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes
>
> Numata Visiting Professor of Buddhist Studies,
> The University of Chicago
> ------------------------------
>
>


-- 
Nagaraj Paturi

Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.

Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies

FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of  Liberal Education,

(Pune, Maharashtra, INDIA )


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From psdmccartney at gmail.com  Thu Sep 15 10:13:21 2016
From: psdmccartney at gmail.com (patrick mccartney)
Date: Thu, 15 Sep 16 19:43:21 +0930
Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_[INDOLOGY]_pa=C3=B1cako=C5=9Ba?=
In-Reply-To: <CAJGj9eZYfn2tqD1u1Jya7H3u4P4Rkf0qOPfEejFrti8FDWrT2g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAEzwJrAQTz9+N54oaoSuRJm+EsUUWXPC0dPSJzAWSyyvKmEk3g@mail.gmail.com>

Thanks to everyone who has responded on and off list. I was also thinking
while I was cycling around trying to figure out how to cross the river due
to flooding
<http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-09-15/south-australia-flooding:-weather-conditions-ease/7846202>
on
my street about Sati and ?akti p??has. This is a great example of the
relationship between tourism and embodiment.

Thanks again.


Patrick




On 15 Sep 2016 3:55 PM, "Nagaraj Paturi" <nagarajpaturi at gmail.com> wrote:

> Since you mentioned "anthropology of tourism and embodiment" the post by
> Prof. Artur Karp on the Sati myth explaining the locations of ????da?a
> ?akti p??has which is discussed in various books on ?akti p??has exactly
> fits here.
>
> I saw an English book on ?akti p??has which my  late father consulted
> during his research on the concept.  I am trying to recollect /locate the
> same.
>
> v?stu puru?a is an example of embodiment of space which is more
> relevant here.
>
> For that matter , the concept of vir?? puru?a , its exposition in puru?a
> s?kta are examples of the significance of the concept of embodiment
> including that of space in Vedic lore.
>
>  Saskia C. Kersenboom-Story 's book Nityasumangali has a discussion on
> Temple structure and its relation to the concept of body according to Yoga.
> (This is a frequently discussed idea in many books on Hindu temple.)
>
>
>
> On Wed, Sep 14, 2016 at 3:40 PM, Nagaraj Paturi <nagarajpaturi at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Dear Patrick,
>>
>>  *vedam?rti* and *??ntam?rti *kind of metaphors belong to a different
>> category. They belong to the category of figurative expressions. We have a
>> huge number of them.
>>
>> dharmam?rti, gurum?rti are the most frequent.
>>
>> r?m? vigrahav?n dharmah type statements are similar.
>>
>> ?tman as 'embodied' is found in expressions such as ??r?raka m?m?ms? as
>> the name for Brhmasutra( Bhashya)
>>
>> Cpomparable to k??as is sth?la ?ar?ra, s?k?ma ?ar?ra, k?ra?a (linga)
>> ?ar?ra. .
>>
>> On Wed, Sep 14, 2016 at 2:39 PM, "Travis L. Smith" <tlsmith at snu.ac.kr>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Dear Patrick,
>>>
>>>
>>> I think the *locus classicus* is Taittir?ya Up. 2.2, though the term
>>> *ko?a* is only used later: there, five "bodies" (*?tman*) are
>>> described. I assume the term *ko?a *came about because later Ved?ntins
>>> obviously used the term *?tman* only in a very precise technical sense,
>>> whereas in the Upani?ads the term was used a lot more fluidly.
>>>
>>>
>>> All best,
>>>
>>>
>>> Travis
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>> Travis L. Smith
>>>
>>> Associate Professor
>>>
>>> Department of Asian Languages and Civilizations
>>>
>>> Seoul National University
>>>
>>> --------- ?? ?? ---------
>>>
>>> *????* : patrick mccartney <psdmccartney at gmail.com>
>>> *????* : Indology List <indology at list.indology.info>
>>> *??* : 2016? 9? 14?(?) 16:25:34
>>> *??* : [INDOLOGY] pa?cako?a
>>>
>>> Dear Friends,
>>>
>>> I'm writing a book chapter about the anthropology of tourism and
>>> embodiment. I have decided to include various 'yogic' perspectives. I am
>>> considering how to include classical ideas like *pa?cako?a* concept
>>> with contemporary practitioner-based ideas of embodiment.
>>>
>>> I would appreciate any suggestions and specific textual references that
>>> possibly discuss the idea of 'embodiment'. Two that come to mind are
>>> *vedam?rti* and *??ntam?rti*. Another is *sam?dhivigraha*, however, I
>>> do not as yet have any textual sources for this term.
>>>
>>> I am curious to know about the first attested mention of the *pa?cako?a*?
>>> I am reading through the *pa?cada??* text, which I have found mention
>>> in secondary literature was maybe written in the 14th century. Although my
>>> assumption is that the *pa?cako?a* concept appears earlier than that.
>>>
>>> Thanks in advance.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> All the best,
>>>
>>> Patrick McCartney, PhD
>>> Fellow
>>> School of Culture, History & Language
>>> College of the Asia-Pacific
>>> The Australian National University
>>> Canberra, Australia, 0200
>>>
>>>
>>> Skype - psdmccartney
>>> Phone + Whatsapp:  +61 414 954 748
>>> Twitter - @psdmccartney
>>>
>>> academia <https://anu-au.academia.edu/patrickmccartney>
>>>
>>>    -
>>>
>>> Linkedin
>>> <https://www.linkedin.com/profile/view?id=241756978&trk=nav_responsive_tab_profile>
>>>
>>> #yogabodyANU2016 symposium
>>> <http://chl.anu.edu.au/news-events/events/658/yoga-and-body-past-and-present-symposium?#tab>
>>>
>>> <http://chl.anu.edu.au/news-events/events/658/yoga-and-body-past-and-present-symposium?#tab>
>>>
>>> Ep1 - Imagining Sanskrit Land <https://youtu.be/jMi7tkPBbJ4>
>>>
>>> Ep 2 - Total-am <https://youtu.be/7tAp8m9RHPU>
>>>
>>> Ep 3 - Jalam ? Chillum <https://youtu.be/cLZeuCT_mwQ>
>>>
>>> Ep 4 - It's Time to get Married
>>> <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_B3un7aHEAc>
>>>
>>> A Day in our Ashram
>>> <https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=ek+din+hamaare+ashram+mein>
>>>
>>> Stop animation short film of Shakuntala
>>> <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LVqBD_2P4Pg>
>>>
>>> Forced to Clean Human Waste <http://youtu.be/y3XfjbwqC_g>
>>>
>>> One of my favourite song
>>> <http://trinityroots.bandcamp.com/track/all-we-be>s
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
>>> committee)
>>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options
>>> or unsubscribe)
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Nagaraj Paturi
>>
>> Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.
>>
>> Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies
>>
>> FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of  Liberal Education,
>>
>> (Pune, Maharashtra, INDIA )
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Nagaraj Paturi
>
> Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.
>
> Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies
>
> FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of  Liberal Education,
>
> (Pune, Maharashtra, INDIA )
>
>
>
>


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From zydenbos at uni-muenchen.de  Thu Sep 15 11:09:05 2016
From: zydenbos at uni-muenchen.de (Robert Zydenbos)
Date: Thu, 15 Sep 16 13:09:05 +0200
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Question on Diacritical Marks
In-Reply-To: <CAGbyd21aODdcEoFORMDHnRrt6gNdj43CYV0j_2p=nDCRTvDTpg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <57DA8151.7070408@uni-muenchen.de>

(With apologies for the belatedness of these thoughts ? I have been away from reading this list for a while.)

(a) Though I sympathize with Dominik?s plea for using an Indian script, it of course is true, as Patrick Olivelle wrote, that there is no such thing as ?Sanskrit script?. As an advocate of stronger South Indian studies, I must object to this British legacy of favouring a North Indian script. :-)

(b) Robert Goldman?s consideration is important. Using transliteration is a way of opening up our specialized field of studies to colleagues in other disciplines.

(c) What surprises me a bit is that apparently nobody (or did I miss this?) has pointed out that there are very serious philological reasons for transliteration. I am sure that everybody will agree that there is a difference between kara?a and k?ra?a, bhava and bh?va, etc. I am not sure about how to avoid confusion without diacritics.

(d) To Adheesh Sathaye: ???? ??? ?? ????? ?? ???? ???? ??? ?????? ????????. In other words: ??? ?????? ????? ?????? ?? ????

RZ



-- 
Prof. Dr. Robert J. Zydenbos
Institute of Indology and Tibetology
Department of Asian Studies
Ludwig-Maximilians-Universit?t M?nchen (University of Munich ? LMU)
Germany
Tel. (+49-89-) 2180-5782
Fax (+49-89-) 2180-5827
Web https://zydenbos.userweb.mwn.de/
PGP (Pretty Good Privacy) public key: https://zydenbos.userweb.mwn.de/zydenbos-uni-muenchen-pgp-public-key.asc
Telegram Messenger: @zydenbos






From vajpeyi at csds.in  Thu Sep 15 12:27:32 2016
From: vajpeyi at csds.in (Ananya Vajpeyi)
Date: Thu, 15 Sep 16 17:57:32 +0530
Subject: [INDOLOGY] New article on Sanskrit
Message-ID: <CAHxuC0TrFNU_-7A5pZgwqHXdJUnNKsDHQaafvYeg8-4M5VfmgA@mail.gmail.com>

Dear Colleagues,

The fall issue of World Policy Journal, titled "History's Ghosts", is just
out.

The issue published by Duke University Press journals, is now live online
<http://www.worldpolicy.org/journal/fall2016>, and here is a direct link
<http://wpj.dukejournals.org/content/33/3/45.full> to my article in it,
titled "The Return of Sanskrit".

The Return of Sanskrit
How an Old Language Got Caught up in India?s New Culture Wars

Indian scholar Ananya Vajpeyi examines the way the ruling Bharatiya Janata
Party is using Sanskrit to advance a Hindu supremacist agenda. She argues
that academics need to step out of the ivory tower and resist the
government?s manipulation of this ancient language.

?Thanks and all best,

Ananya Vajpeyi. ?


-- 

*Ananya Vajpeyi *
*Fellow*
*Centre for the Study of Developing Societies*
*29 Rajpur Road, Civil Lines*
*New Delhi 110054*
*e: vajpeyi at csds.in <vajpeyi at csds.in>*
*ext: 229*


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From nagarajpaturi at gmail.com  Thu Sep 15 13:39:30 2016
From: nagarajpaturi at gmail.com (Nagaraj Paturi)
Date: Thu, 15 Sep 16 19:09:30 +0530
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Hindu and Islamic Traditions in the Eighteenth Century
In-Reply-To: <BLUPR19MB0225E16F86AC86646117B44AA0F10@BLUPR19MB0225.namprd19.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <CAJGj9ea-QoSkKPuA+-mEo2QOnMQWyPenkT8W_E8MWaxRo6ZsLQ@mail.gmail.com>

There is material like this one
<http://www.sutrajournal.com/vaishnava-bauls-of-birbhum-bengal-by-trishula-das>
on
Vaishnava Bauls.

This page <https://www.britannica.com/topic/eschatology> has a section
called messianism which deals with what are called as crisis cults and
mentions examples from India.

There is a huge published material in regional Indian languages on this
period (18th century)  focussing on the religious cults of the time. As a
general note, it may be said that academic material lying in here in Indian
regional languages is yet to be recognized and studied by the
academics other than those who know the languages.


On Wed, Sep 14, 2016 at 4:20 PM, Harsha Dehejia <harshadehejia at hotmail.com>
wrote:

> Tyler:
>
>
> Could I interject?
>
>
> I am working on the so called Muslim Vasihnavas of  the 18th century in UP
> and Bengal.
>
>
> Any material on this would be most helpful.
>
>
> Kind regards,
>
>
> Harsha
>
> Prof. Harsha V. Dehejia
>
>
> ------------------------------
> *From:* INDOLOGY <indology-bounces at list.indology.info> on behalf of Tyler
> Williams <tylerwwilliams at gmail.com>
> *Sent:* September 14, 2016 6:12 AM
> *To:* James Hegarty
> *Cc:* indology
> *Subject:* Re: [INDOLOGY] Hindu and Islamic Traditions in the Eighteenth
> Century
>
> Dear James,
>
> I've found that some of the best materials to teach with for the 19th
> century are Francis Robinson's and Barbara Metcalf's writings on Islamic
> intellectuals in UP, Vasudha Dalmia's writings on Bhartendu Harishchandra,
> and Tanika Sarkar's writings on Hindu women. (Although I have to admit that
> I have to pick and choose portions of their writings, since their
> monographs are usually too large for undergraduate courses.)  In any case,
> those are my personal favorites.
>
> Not long ago, John S. Hawley at Barnard taught an excellent course on
> religious history in Mughal India with a very comprehensive and up-to-date
> syllabus; I'm sure that he would be willing to share it (I can't seem to
> find a copy at the moment...)
>
> Best,
> Tyler
>
>
> On Wed, Sep 14, 2016 at 2:57 PM, James Hegarty via INDOLOGY <
> indology at list.indology.info> wrote:
>
>> _______________________________________________
>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
>> committee)
>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
>> unsubscribe)
>>
>> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
>> From: James Hegarty <hegartyjm at googlemail.com>
>> To: indology <indology at list.indology.info>
>> Cc:
>> Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2016 10:26:16 +0100
>> Subject: Hindu and Islamic Traditions in the Eighteenth Century
>> Dear Colleagues,
>>
>> I am currently preparing a new undergraduate course on the religious
>> history of  South Asia from the early sixteenth century to present.
>>
>> I am looking for recommendations for studies of Hindu and Islamic
>> movements in the eighteenth century in particular (I have plenty of
>> material on the Sikhs).
>>
>> Any suggestions will be gratefully received!
>>
>> With Thanks and Best Wishes,
>>
>> James Hegarty
>> Cardiff University
>>
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
> committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
> unsubscribe)
>



-- 
Nagaraj Paturi

Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.

Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies

FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of  Liberal Education,

(Pune, Maharashtra, INDIA )


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From nagarajpaturi at gmail.com  Thu Sep 15 13:55:54 2016
From: nagarajpaturi at gmail.com (Nagaraj Paturi)
Date: Thu, 15 Sep 16 19:25:54 +0530
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Hindu and Islamic Traditions in the Eighteenth Century
In-Reply-To: <634EA735-77FB-4CB4-9E38-59CBF4E3A80E@googlemail.com>
Message-ID: <CAJGj9eazTiv8CxRDYcdxQQNP_8XZ-vcScnAC8ENd5cV2rxoNVg@mail.gmail.com>

I was just trying to suggest a need for a 'project' of getting the material
translated into lingua franca of wider audience or languages such as
English, French or Spanish accessible to greater number of international
audience.

On Thu, Sep 15, 2016 at 7:14 PM, James Hegarty <hegartyjm at googlemail.com>
wrote:

> Dear Nagaraj,
>
> You are of course entirely correct about the use of scholarship in
> regional Indian languages. I do my best to read relevant works, slowly, in
> Hindi and Nepali! However, I cannot ask my students to do the same (indeed,
> we can no longer ask them to read papers in French or German)!
>
> Thank you for your recommendations and links.
>
> Best,
>
> James Hegarty
>
>
>
>
> On 15 Sep 2016, at 14:39, Nagaraj Paturi <nagarajpaturi at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> There is material like this one
> <http://www.sutrajournal.com/vaishnava-bauls-of-birbhum-bengal-by-trishula-das> on
> Vaishnava Bauls.
>
> This page <https://www.britannica.com/topic/eschatology> has a section
> called messianism which deals with what are called as crisis cults and
> mentions examples from India.
>
> There is a huge published material in regional Indian languages on this
> period (18th century)  focussing on the religious cults of the time. As a
> general note, it may be said that academic material lying in here in Indian
> regional languages is yet to be recognized and studied by the
> academics other than those who know the languages.
>
>
> On Wed, Sep 14, 2016 at 4:20 PM, Harsha Dehejia <harshadehejia at hotmail.com
> > wrote:
>
>> Tyler:
>>
>>
>> Could I interject?
>>
>>
>> I am working on the so called Muslim Vasihnavas of  the 18th century in
>> UP and Bengal.
>>
>>
>> Any material on this would be most helpful.
>>
>>
>> Kind regards,
>>
>>
>> Harsha
>>
>> Prof. Harsha V. Dehejia
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>> *From:* INDOLOGY <indology-bounces at list.indology.info> on behalf of
>> Tyler Williams <tylerwwilliams at gmail.com>
>> *Sent:* September 14, 2016 6:12 AM
>> *To:* James Hegarty
>> *Cc:* indology
>> *Subject:* Re: [INDOLOGY] Hindu and Islamic Traditions in the Eighteenth
>> Century
>>
>> Dear James,
>>
>> I've found that some of the best materials to teach with for the 19th
>> century are Francis Robinson's and Barbara Metcalf's writings on Islamic
>> intellectuals in UP, Vasudha Dalmia's writings on Bhartendu Harishchandra,
>> and Tanika Sarkar's writings on Hindu women. (Although I have to admit that
>> I have to pick and choose portions of their writings, since their
>> monographs are usually too large for undergraduate courses.)  In any case,
>> those are my personal favorites.
>>
>> Not long ago, John S. Hawley at Barnard taught an excellent course on
>> religious history in Mughal India with a very comprehensive and up-to-date
>> syllabus; I'm sure that he would be willing to share it (I can't seem to
>> find a copy at the moment...)
>>
>> Best,
>> Tyler
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Sep 14, 2016 at 2:57 PM, James Hegarty via INDOLOGY <
>> indology at list.indology.info> wrote:
>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
>>> committee)
>>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options
>>> or unsubscribe)
>>>
>>> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
>>> From: James Hegarty <hegartyjm at googlemail.com>
>>> To: indology <indology at list.indology.info>
>>> Cc:
>>> Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2016 10:26:16 +0100
>>> Subject: Hindu and Islamic Traditions in the Eighteenth Century
>>> Dear Colleagues,
>>>
>>> I am currently preparing a new undergraduate course on the religious
>>> history of  South Asia from the early sixteenth century to present.
>>>
>>> I am looking for recommendations for studies of Hindu and Islamic
>>> movements in the eighteenth century in particular (I have plenty of
>>> material on the Sikhs).
>>>
>>> Any suggestions will be gratefully received!
>>>
>>> With Thanks and Best Wishes,
>>>
>>> James Hegarty
>>> Cardiff University
>>>
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
>> committee)
>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
>> unsubscribe)
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Nagaraj Paturi
>
> Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.
>
> Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies
>
> FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of  Liberal Education,
>
> (Pune, Maharashtra, INDIA )
>
>
>
>
>
>


-- 
Nagaraj Paturi

Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.

Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies

FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of  Liberal Education,

(Pune, Maharashtra, INDIA )


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From wiese at wifa.uni-leipzig.de  Thu Sep 15 14:21:00 2016
From: wiese at wifa.uni-leipzig.de (Harald Wiese)
Date: Thu, 15 Sep 16 16:21:00 +0200
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Contest of the vital functions
Message-ID: <475a3659-42ea-3bed-6950-88ff995fef4d@wifa.uni-leipzig.de>

Dear list members,

two forms of the contest of the vital functions are generalizable to 
contests in the political, social, or economic realm:

a) the sequential one (entering, or leaving, the body one after the 
other) and
b) the threat of withdrawal (leaving the body for a year, return, and 
ask the others how they fared)

Would anyone know about later (after Upanishads or Aranyakas) Indian 
developments along these lines? Did later commentators or social 
scientists build on these models?


Yours sincerely

Harald Wiese
University of Leipzig
wiese at wifa.uni-leipzig.de





From d.wujastyk at gmail.com  Thu Sep 15 17:24:16 2016
From: d.wujastyk at gmail.com (Dagmar Wujastyk)
Date: Thu, 15 Sep 16 11:24:16 -0600
Subject: =?utf-8?Q?[INDOLOGY]_Workshop_on_histories_of_ras=C4=81yana,_k=C4=81yakalpa_and_bcud_len_at_Vienna_university,_Oct_21-22,_2016?=
Message-ID: <CAEhxeU0aqs8HBJwXwv+=59unCB=3b565JMXOvb1248z=e_hnsg@mail.gmail.com>

Dear colleages,

May I bring your attention to a workshop that will take place in the South
Asian studies department at Vienna university on October 21 and 22?

The two-day workshop will explore the historically linked South and Inner
Asian practices of ras?yana, k?yakalpa and bcud len.  These are practices,
treatment techniques and formulations aimed at a variety of goals that
range from prolonging life, restoring youthfulness, and promoting physical
health, to accessing special powers, achieving enlightenment, and attaining
immortality.


You can find the programme of the workshop here
<http://ayuryog.org/event/ayuryog-workshop-rejuvenation-longevity-immortality-perspectives-ras%C4%81yana-k%C4%81yakalpa-and-bcud>
.

With kind regards,

Dagmar Wujastyk


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From nagarajpaturi at gmail.com  Thu Sep 15 18:32:21 2016
From: nagarajpaturi at gmail.com (Nagaraj Paturi)
Date: Fri, 16 Sep 16 00:02:21 +0530
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Hindu and Islamic Traditions in the Eighteenth Century
In-Reply-To: <CAJGj9eazTiv8CxRDYcdxQQNP_8XZ-vcScnAC8ENd5cV2rxoNVg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAJGj9eYkPCf=QwCc42k8m74aDcNX_W=Z1FjVCBQDY+++BNgyRg@mail.gmail.com>

Lalon /Lalan Fakir  (intro at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lalon)

is discussed in 'The Cosmogonic Riddles of Lalan Fakir' by Carol Salomon in
Gender, Genre, and Power in South Asian Expressive Traditionsedited by
Arjun Appadurai, Frank J. Korom, Margaret A, Mills

On Thu, Sep 15, 2016 at 7:25 PM, Nagaraj Paturi <nagarajpaturi at gmail.com>
wrote:

> I was just trying to suggest a need for a 'project' of getting the
> material translated into lingua franca of wider audience or languages such
> as English, French or Spanish accessible to greater number of international
> audience.
>
> On Thu, Sep 15, 2016 at 7:14 PM, James Hegarty <hegartyjm at googlemail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Dear Nagaraj,
>>
>> You are of course entirely correct about the use of scholarship in
>> regional Indian languages. I do my best to read relevant works, slowly, in
>> Hindi and Nepali! However, I cannot ask my students to do the same (indeed,
>> we can no longer ask them to read papers in French or German)!
>>
>> Thank you for your recommendations and links.
>>
>> Best,
>>
>> James Hegarty
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 15 Sep 2016, at 14:39, Nagaraj Paturi <nagarajpaturi at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> There is material like this one
>> <http://www.sutrajournal.com/vaishnava-bauls-of-birbhum-bengal-by-trishula-das> on
>> Vaishnava Bauls.
>>
>> This page <https://www.britannica.com/topic/eschatology> has a section
>> called messianism which deals with what are called as crisis cults and
>> mentions examples from India.
>>
>> There is a huge published material in regional Indian languages on this
>> period (18th century)  focussing on the religious cults of the time. As a
>> general note, it may be said that academic material lying in here in Indian
>> regional languages is yet to be recognized and studied by the
>> academics other than those who know the languages.
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Sep 14, 2016 at 4:20 PM, Harsha Dehejia <
>> harshadehejia at hotmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Tyler:
>>>
>>>
>>> Could I interject?
>>>
>>>
>>> I am working on the so called Muslim Vasihnavas of  the 18th century in
>>> UP and Bengal.
>>>
>>>
>>> Any material on this would be most helpful.
>>>
>>>
>>> Kind regards,
>>>
>>>
>>> Harsha
>>>
>>> Prof. Harsha V. Dehejia
>>>
>>>
>>> ------------------------------
>>> *From:* INDOLOGY <indology-bounces at list.indology.info> on behalf of
>>> Tyler Williams <tylerwwilliams at gmail.com>
>>> *Sent:* September 14, 2016 6:12 AM
>>> *To:* James Hegarty
>>> *Cc:* indology
>>> *Subject:* Re: [INDOLOGY] Hindu and Islamic Traditions in the
>>> Eighteenth Century
>>>
>>> Dear James,
>>>
>>> I've found that some of the best materials to teach with for the 19th
>>> century are Francis Robinson's and Barbara Metcalf's writings on Islamic
>>> intellectuals in UP, Vasudha Dalmia's writings on Bhartendu Harishchandra,
>>> and Tanika Sarkar's writings on Hindu women. (Although I have to admit that
>>> I have to pick and choose portions of their writings, since their
>>> monographs are usually too large for undergraduate courses.)  In any case,
>>> those are my personal favorites.
>>>
>>> Not long ago, John S. Hawley at Barnard taught an excellent course on
>>> religious history in Mughal India with a very comprehensive and up-to-date
>>> syllabus; I'm sure that he would be willing to share it (I can't seem to
>>> find a copy at the moment...)
>>>
>>> Best,
>>> Tyler
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wed, Sep 14, 2016 at 2:57 PM, James Hegarty via INDOLOGY <
>>> indology at list.indology.info> wrote:
>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>>>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>>>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
>>>> committee)
>>>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options
>>>> or unsubscribe)
>>>>
>>>> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
>>>> From: James Hegarty <hegartyjm at googlemail.com>
>>>> To: indology <indology at list.indology.info>
>>>> Cc:
>>>> Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2016 10:26:16 +0100
>>>> Subject: Hindu and Islamic Traditions in the Eighteenth Century
>>>> Dear Colleagues,
>>>>
>>>> I am currently preparing a new undergraduate course on the religious
>>>> history of  South Asia from the early sixteenth century to present.
>>>>
>>>> I am looking for recommendations for studies of Hindu and Islamic
>>>> movements in the eighteenth century in particular (I have plenty of
>>>> material on the Sikhs).
>>>>
>>>> Any suggestions will be gratefully received!
>>>>
>>>> With Thanks and Best Wishes,
>>>>
>>>> James Hegarty
>>>> Cardiff University
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
>>> committee)
>>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options
>>> or unsubscribe)
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Nagaraj Paturi
>>
>> Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.
>>
>> Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies
>>
>> FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of  Liberal Education,
>>
>> (Pune, Maharashtra, INDIA )
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Nagaraj Paturi
>
> Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.
>
> Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies
>
> FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of  Liberal Education,
>
> (Pune, Maharashtra, INDIA )
>
>
>
>



-- 
Nagaraj Paturi

Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.

Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies

FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of  Liberal Education,

(Pune, Maharashtra, INDIA )


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From nagarajpaturi at gmail.com  Thu Sep 15 18:47:24 2016
From: nagarajpaturi at gmail.com (Nagaraj Paturi)
Date: Fri, 16 Sep 16 00:17:24 +0530
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Hindu and Islamic Traditions in the Eighteenth Century
In-Reply-To: <CAJGj9eYkPCf=QwCc42k8m74aDcNX_W=Z1FjVCBQDY+++BNgyRg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAJGj9eZR8f3b4Eau+b91OCDFmKUXwrpJMk8SRrpuxwiZ_SkV5w@mail.gmail.com>

I was having personalities like the following on whom published literature
is regional languages, in this case Kannada:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vijaya_Dasa



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jagannatha_Dasa



On Fri, Sep 16, 2016 at 12:02 AM, Nagaraj Paturi <nagarajpaturi at gmail.com>
wrote:

> Lalon /Lalan Fakir  (intro at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lalon)
>
> is discussed in 'The Cosmogonic Riddles of Lalan Fakir' by Carol Salomon in
> Gender, Genre, and Power in South Asian Expressive Traditionsedited by
> Arjun Appadurai, Frank J. Korom, Margaret A, Mills
>
> On Thu, Sep 15, 2016 at 7:25 PM, Nagaraj Paturi <nagarajpaturi at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> I was just trying to suggest a need for a 'project' of getting the
>> material translated into lingua franca of wider audience or languages such
>> as English, French or Spanish accessible to greater number of international
>> audience.
>>
>> On Thu, Sep 15, 2016 at 7:14 PM, James Hegarty <hegartyjm at googlemail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Dear Nagaraj,
>>>
>>> You are of course entirely correct about the use of scholarship in
>>> regional Indian languages. I do my best to read relevant works, slowly, in
>>> Hindi and Nepali! However, I cannot ask my students to do the same (indeed,
>>> we can no longer ask them to read papers in French or German)!
>>>
>>> Thank you for your recommendations and links.
>>>
>>> Best,
>>>
>>> James Hegarty
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 15 Sep 2016, at 14:39, Nagaraj Paturi <nagarajpaturi at gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> There is material like this one
>>> <http://www.sutrajournal.com/vaishnava-bauls-of-birbhum-bengal-by-trishula-das> on
>>> Vaishnava Bauls.
>>>
>>> This page <https://www.britannica.com/topic/eschatology> has a section
>>> called messianism which deals with what are called as crisis cults and
>>> mentions examples from India.
>>>
>>> There is a huge published material in regional Indian languages on this
>>> period (18th century)  focussing on the religious cults of the time. As a
>>> general note, it may be said that academic material lying in here in Indian
>>> regional languages is yet to be recognized and studied by the
>>> academics other than those who know the languages.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wed, Sep 14, 2016 at 4:20 PM, Harsha Dehejia <
>>> harshadehejia at hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Tyler:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Could I interject?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I am working on the so called Muslim Vasihnavas of  the 18th century in
>>>> UP and Bengal.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Any material on this would be most helpful.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Kind regards,
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Harsha
>>>>
>>>> Prof. Harsha V. Dehejia
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ------------------------------
>>>> *From:* INDOLOGY <indology-bounces at list.indology.info> on behalf of
>>>> Tyler Williams <tylerwwilliams at gmail.com>
>>>> *Sent:* September 14, 2016 6:12 AM
>>>> *To:* James Hegarty
>>>> *Cc:* indology
>>>> *Subject:* Re: [INDOLOGY] Hindu and Islamic Traditions in the
>>>> Eighteenth Century
>>>>
>>>> Dear James,
>>>>
>>>> I've found that some of the best materials to teach with for the 19th
>>>> century are Francis Robinson's and Barbara Metcalf's writings on Islamic
>>>> intellectuals in UP, Vasudha Dalmia's writings on Bhartendu Harishchandra,
>>>> and Tanika Sarkar's writings on Hindu women. (Although I have to admit that
>>>> I have to pick and choose portions of their writings, since their
>>>> monographs are usually too large for undergraduate courses.)  In any case,
>>>> those are my personal favorites.
>>>>
>>>> Not long ago, John S. Hawley at Barnard taught an excellent course on
>>>> religious history in Mughal India with a very comprehensive and up-to-date
>>>> syllabus; I'm sure that he would be willing to share it (I can't seem to
>>>> find a copy at the moment...)
>>>>
>>>> Best,
>>>> Tyler
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Wed, Sep 14, 2016 at 2:57 PM, James Hegarty via INDOLOGY <
>>>> indology at list.indology.info> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>>>>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>>>>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
>>>>> committee)
>>>>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options
>>>>> or unsubscribe)
>>>>>
>>>>> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
>>>>> From: James Hegarty <hegartyjm at googlemail.com>
>>>>> To: indology <indology at list.indology.info>
>>>>> Cc:
>>>>> Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2016 10:26:16 +0100
>>>>> Subject: Hindu and Islamic Traditions in the Eighteenth Century
>>>>> Dear Colleagues,
>>>>>
>>>>> I am currently preparing a new undergraduate course on the religious
>>>>> history of  South Asia from the early sixteenth century to present.
>>>>>
>>>>> I am looking for recommendations for studies of Hindu and Islamic
>>>>> movements in the eighteenth century in particular (I have plenty of
>>>>> material on the Sikhs).
>>>>>
>>>>> Any suggestions will be gratefully received!
>>>>>
>>>>> With Thanks and Best Wishes,
>>>>>
>>>>> James Hegarty
>>>>> Cardiff University
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>>>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>>>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
>>>> committee)
>>>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options
>>>> or unsubscribe)
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Nagaraj Paturi
>>>
>>> Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.
>>>
>>> Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies
>>>
>>> FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of  Liberal Education,
>>>
>>> (Pune, Maharashtra, INDIA )
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Nagaraj Paturi
>>
>> Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.
>>
>> Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies
>>
>> FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of  Liberal Education,
>>
>> (Pune, Maharashtra, INDIA )
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Nagaraj Paturi
>
> Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.
>
> Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies
>
> FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of  Liberal Education,
>
> (Pune, Maharashtra, INDIA )
>
>
>
>



-- 
Nagaraj Paturi

Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.

Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies

FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of  Liberal Education,

(Pune, Maharashtra, INDIA )


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From Bradley.Clough at mso.umt.edu  Thu Sep 15 23:09:35 2016
From: Bradley.Clough at mso.umt.edu (Clough, Bradley)
Date: Thu, 15 Sep 16 23:09:35 +0000
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Story in South Asian Literature?
Message-ID: <34975E0D-0D12-4E68-AB6F-EC7EFE86F07F@mso.umt.edu>

Dear Colleagues,

A colleague in Chinese Studies, who is working on a cycle of stories that involve a giant who destroys villages by defecating on them, was wondering if there were any parallels in South Asian literature. I was unable to help him. If anyone knows of such stories in South Asian literature, I would appreciate receiving references.

Many Thanks,
Brad

Dr. Bradley S. Clough
Liberal Studies/Asian Religions
LA 101
The University of Montana
32 Campus Drive
Missoula, MT 59812

bradley.clough at mso.umt.edu<mailto:bradley.clough at mso.umt.edu>
Phone: 406-243-2837
Fax: 406-243-4076






From karp at uw.edu.pl  Fri Sep 16 05:45:06 2016
From: karp at uw.edu.pl (Artur Karp)
Date: Fri, 16 Sep 16 07:45:06 +0200
Subject: [INDOLOGY] New article on Sanskrit
In-Reply-To: <CAHxuC0TrFNU_-7A5pZgwqHXdJUnNKsDHQaafvYeg8-4M5VfmgA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CALNcvFtSr=22GENaSe4abaay25yvLCDuE=QA7W7fRuE=DJEZsg@mail.gmail.com>

> academics need to step out of the ivory tower and resist the government?s
manipulation of this ancient language

Dear Ananya,

Why should they *step out* and *resist*? Whatever the government's efforts,
people aren't going to start speaking/writing Sanskrit.

Do you suspect that replacing some - yes, Islamic and Christian
(Arabic/Persian and English) - parts of Modern Indian Languages
vocabularies with their - yes, Hindu (Sanskrit) equivalents could create
communal tension?

Look at European Languages and the role of Latin/Greek lexemes in their
development, especially late XIXth century. In the case of my language
(Polish) many German(ic) lexemes were being then systematically replaced
with their Latin equivalents. And new Latin/Greek lexemes introduced - to
describe, by one word, new philosophical, scientific, technological,
political concepts.

Yes, there were some people who tried to resist this trend and kind of
re-introduce (largely artificially created) Old-Slavic lexemes. Yes - but
their efforts were soon forgotten.

Regards,

Artur Karp (ret.)
University of Warsaw
Poland

2016-09-15 14:27 GMT+02:00 Ananya Vajpeyi <vajpeyi at csds.in>:

> Dear Colleagues,
>
> The fall issue of World Policy Journal, titled "History's Ghosts", is just
> out.
>
> The issue published by Duke University Press journals, is now live online
> <http://www.worldpolicy.org/journal/fall2016>, and here is a direct link
> <http://wpj.dukejournals.org/content/33/3/45.full> to my article in it,
> titled "The Return of Sanskrit".
>
> The Return of Sanskrit
> How an Old Language Got Caught up in India?s New Culture Wars
>
> Indian scholar Ananya Vajpeyi examines the way the ruling Bharatiya Janata
> Party is using Sanskrit to advance a Hindu supremacist agenda. She argues
> that academics need to step out of the ivory tower and resist the
> government?s manipulation of this ancient language.
>
> ?Thanks and all best,
>
> Ananya Vajpeyi. ?
>
>
> --
>
> *Ananya Vajpeyi *
> *Fellow*
> *Centre for the Study of Developing Societies*
> *29 Rajpur Road, Civil Lines*
> *New Delhi 110054*
> *e: vajpeyi at csds.in <vajpeyi at csds.in>*
> *ext: 229*
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
> committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
> unsubscribe)
>


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From karp at uw.edu.pl  Fri Sep 16 06:14:12 2016
From: karp at uw.edu.pl (Artur Karp)
Date: Fri, 16 Sep 16 08:14:12 +0200
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Two terms
In-Reply-To: <a77f6d3a-fdae-e23e-283a-1623eb00f4b1@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CALNcvFvf3+qKyGH+nC03AanrHNwHnh3HsZ59SuusU6PyT-gs6A@mail.gmail.com>

My thanks to *All* who gave me some of their time and helped me to
understand better the enigma of *v??asa?gh??ayanta*

But ---- *yak?i ?*

Artur

2016-09-14 21:26 GMT+02:00 Rolf Heinrich Koch <rolfheiner.koch at gmail.com>:

> Dear Artur
>
> regarding your question v??a = snake in P?li-sources  please see two
> references from the J?takas according to
>
> W. Geiger (1916), P?li. Literatur und Sprache, p. 66: v??a "Raubtier,
> Schlange" J?. VI 497 (13) and J?Co. I 99 (14).
>
> Best
>
> Rolf Heinrich Koch
>
> Am 14.09.2016 um 13:01 schrieb petra kieffer-p?lz:
>
> not to my knowledge.
>
> Best,
> Petra
>
> Am 14.09.2016 um 12:49 schrieb Artur Karp:
>
> > the word v??a means predators in other contexts too
>
> Dear Petra,
>
> Are there any contexts in which v??a could mean serpents?
>
> Best,
>
> Artur Karp
>
> 2016-09-14 10:51 GMT+02:00 petra kieffer-p?lz < <kiepue at t-online.de>
> kiepue at t-online.de>:
>
>> Dear Artur,
>>
>> the Sinhala Th?pava?saya has been translated by S. Berkwitz, The
>> Enshrining of the Relics.
>> On p. 131f. you'll find the translation of this passage as follows:
>>
>> "Dear boy! The enshrining of the relics has been done by King Aj?ta?atru.
>> Create a suitable defense for them." The deity Vi?vakarma, who heard those
>> words, came and prepared a device outfitted with figures of wild beasts,
>> and created a device in the relic chamber out of wooden forms that held
>> shining swords of crystal and that whirled around with a speed equal to
>> that of the wind."
>>
>> By the way the word v??a means predators in other contexts too. Thus we
>> have diwans (palla?ka) the feet of which are decorated with figures of
>> beast of prey (Vin IV 299,21f.).
>>
>> Best,
>> Petra Kieffer-P?lz
>>
>> Am 14.09.2016 um 08:45 schrieb Artur Karp:
>>
>> Dear List,
>>
>> Would anyone take pity on me and translate this bit of the Sinhalese text
>> for me?
>>
>> [Sent by Rolf Heinrich Koch:]
>>
>> "daruva, Aj?ta?atru rajjuruvan visin dh?tu nidh?naya karavana lada, topi
>> da ??a sudusu ?rak??vak karav" yi kiya.
>> e bas ?s? Vi?vakam divyaputra avut vy?lar?pa yukta yantrayak yod? da??in
>> ne?? karana lada d?payan dh?tu garbhayehi ?v??a puhupat ka?ugena
>> v?nav?gayak h? sam?na v?gayen sis?r? divann? v?
>> yantrayak mav?,...
>>
>> Sinhala Th?pava?saya (2007) p. 109sq.
>>
>> In advance, etc.
>>
>> I would be especially grateful for the meaning of vy?lar?pa -  as it is
>> understood in the text: in the form of ferocius animal(s) [like tigers
>> or lions] or serpent(s)?
>>
>>
>> Artur
>>
>>
>>
>> 2016-09-12 17:19 GMT+02:00 Rolf Heinrich Koch <
>> <rolfheiner.koch at gmail.com>rolfheiner.koch at gmail.com>:
>>
>>> I am just working on Sinhalese sources of the Buddhacarita.
>>>
>>> Regarding *v??asa?gh?tayantan t*he Sinhala Th?pava?saya reads:
>>>
>>>
>>> "daruva, Aj?ta?atru rajjuruvan visin dh?tu nidh?naya karavana lada, topi
>>> da ??a sudusu ?rak??vak karav" yi kiya.
>>> e bas ?s? Vi?vakam divyaputra avut vy?lar?pa yukta yantrayak yod? da??in
>>> ne?? karana lada d?payan dh?tu garbhayehi ?v??a puhupat ka?ugena
>>> v?nav?gayak h? sam?na v?gayen sis?r? divann? v?
>>> yantrayak mav?,...
>>>
>>> Sinhala Th?pava?saya (2007) p. 109sq.
>>>
>>> Best
>>>
>>> Heiner
>>>
>>>
>>> www.rolfheinrichkoch.wordpress.com
>>>
>>> Am 12.09.2016 um 15:03 schrieb Seishi Karashima:
>>>
>>> Dear colleagues,
>>>
>>> Almost identical passages are found in the *Th?pava?sa*: *The chronicle
>>> of the Th?pa and the Th?pava?sa: Being a Translation and Edition of
>>> V?cissaratthera?s Th?pava?sa*, by N.A. Jayawickrama, London 1971: Luzac
>>> (Sacred Books of the Buddhists / Pali Text Society, v. 28; Unesco
>>> Collection of Representative Works), pp. 182f.
>>>
>>> Jayawickrama translated the passages in question as follows:
>>>
>>> Sakka, the king of the deities addressed Vissakamma: 'Ajatasattu, my
>>> dear, has done the enshrining of the relics ; you provide protection
>>> there', and despatched him. He came and set up *a contraption with a
>>> number of figures of ferocious animals* and setting up inside the relic
>>> chamber (another contraption) which made the wooden figures bearing crystal
>>> coloured swords revolve with the speed of the wind, he had it all
>>> joined to one pin, had a rampart of granite in the form of a 'brick-hall' 6
>>> built, and having it covered on top with a single (stone-slab) had earth
>>> thrown in and the ground levelled and had a granite thiipa established upon
>>> it. (*ibid. *p. 46).
>>>
>>> Cf. also *D?ghanik?ya??hakath???k? L?natthava??an?*, ed. Lily De Silva,
>>> London 1970: Luzac, vol. 2, p. 246, ll. 14ff. *v??asa?gh?tayantan ti **kakkhala?
>>> pa?ibhayadassana? a??ama??apa?ib{h}addhagaman?dit?ya sa?gh??ita?
>>> r?pakayanta?** yojesi. ten? ?ha ?ka??har?pak?n??ti ?di*.
>>>
>>> With best regards,
>>> Seishi Karashima
>>>
>>> 2016-09-12 21:42 GMT+09:00 Madhav Deshpande < <mmdesh at umich.edu>
>>> mmdesh at umich.edu>:
>>>
>>>> Hi Artur,
>>>>
>>>>      I checked Google Images for "Nagayantra", and there are several
>>>> interesting diagrams and designs for such Yantras, some of which are
>>>> evidently found in Thai Buddhist temples.  Here is a link:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> <http://www.sak-yant.com/archive/108yant/payanakarach/yantpayanakarach.jpg>
>>>> http://www.sak-yant.com/archive/108yant/payanakarach/yantpay
>>>> anakarach.jpg
>>>>
>>>> Madhav
>>>>
>>>> On Mon, Sep 12, 2016 at 8:32 AM, Artur Karp < <karp at uw.edu.pl>
>>>> karp at uw.edu.pl> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> > contraption
>>>>>
>>>>> :)
>>>>>
>>>>> any image of ?
>>>>>
>>>>> 2016-09-12 14:29 GMT+02:00 Madhav Deshpande < <mmdesh at umich.edu>
>>>>> mmdesh at umich.edu>:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi Artur,
>>>>>>
>>>>>>      It probably refers to some contraption surrounded by a host of
>>>>>> serpents.  Serpents as guardians of hidden underground treasures is a
>>>>>> reasonably common idea in Indian literature.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Madhav
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Mon, Sep 12, 2016 at 8:24 AM, Artur Karp < <karp at uw.edu.pl>
>>>>>> karp at uw.edu.pl> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Dear Madhav,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The PTS,s Pali-English Dict.:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> *V??a* - [cp. late Sk. vy??a, see Geiger, *P. Gr*. ? 54?] I. a
>>>>>>> snake Vism 312 (so read for *va?a*).- 2. a beast of prey [...]
>>>>>>> *v??a-miga*, a beast of prey, predaceous animal, like tiger,
>>>>>>> leopard, etc. [...]
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> When in search for the Elixir of immortality Garuda enters the
>>>>>>> underworld, he kills *two serpents* hidden under the [eternally]
>>>>>>> revolving wheel. (Mbh. I, 29. 3-9).
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> When the relics of the Buddha are hidden by Ajatasattu in the
>>>>>>> underground chamber, Vissakamma places over them, for their defence the
>>>>>>> [eternally] revolving *v??a?sa?gh??a?yanta.*
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> If *v??a* would mean "snake, serpent", then this could be one of
>>>>>>> the tropes linking both the narrations.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> *Yanta *means "contrivance, artifice, instrument, machine,
>>>>>>> mechanism" - in what way could it be constructed/pegged together - using
>>>>>>> serpents? Ataching it to serpents? Giving it a serpentine look?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Artur
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>>>> <INDOLOGY at list.indology.info>INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>>>> <indology-owner at list.indology.info>indology-owner at list.indology.info
>>>> (messages to the list's managing committee)
>>>> <http://listinfo.indology.info/>http://listinfo.indology.info (where
>>>> you can change your list options or unsubscribe)
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> INDOLOGY mailing listINDOLOGY at list.indology.infoindology-owner@list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee)http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe)
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________ INDOLOGY mailing list
>>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages
>>> to the list's managing committee) http://listinfo.indology.info (where
>>> you can change your list options or unsubscribe)
>>
>> _______________________________________________ INDOLOGY mailing list
>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages
>> to the list's managing committee) http://listinfo.indology.info (where
>> you can change your list options or unsubscribe)
>
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing listINDOLOGY at list.indology.infoindology-owner@list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee)http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe)
>
> -- www.rolfheinrichkoch.wordpress.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
> committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
> unsubscribe)
>


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From nagarajpaturi at gmail.com  Fri Sep 16 06:25:59 2016
From: nagarajpaturi at gmail.com (Nagaraj Paturi)
Date: Fri, 16 Sep 16 11:55:59 +0530
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Two terms
In-Reply-To: <CALNcvFvf3+qKyGH+nC03AanrHNwHnh3HsZ59SuusU6PyT-gs6A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAJGj9ea5J3J1iqiE4qc6yHfVq2SbhNWKuKAA2mw=VW3CAYns9Q@mail.gmail.com>

Yakshi is a popular word in Kerala, in Malayalam language. It is part of
Keralite folklore and the living belief system of Kerala. It is believed to
be a supernatural power and is believed sometimes to be 'felt' or 'seen' in
the backyards or in the wilderness.

The word/ concept finds its place in the lore of sorcery, witchcraft or
black magic.

The quoted lines seem to be a mantra involving the spirit.

On Fri, Sep 16, 2016 at 11:44 AM, Artur Karp <karp at uw.edu.pl> wrote:

> My thanks to *All* who gave me some of their time and helped me to
> understand better the enigma of *v??asa?gh??ayanta*
>
> But ---- *yak?i ?*
>
> Artur
>
> 2016-09-14 21:26 GMT+02:00 Rolf Heinrich Koch <rolfheiner.koch at gmail.com>:
>
>> Dear Artur
>>
>> regarding your question v??a = snake in P?li-sources  please see two
>> references from the J?takas according to
>>
>> W. Geiger (1916), P?li. Literatur und Sprache, p. 66: v??a "Raubtier,
>> Schlange" J?. VI 497 (13) and J?Co. I 99 (14).
>>
>> Best
>>
>> Rolf Heinrich Koch
>>
>> Am 14.09.2016 um 13:01 schrieb petra kieffer-p?lz:
>>
>> not to my knowledge.
>>
>> Best,
>> Petra
>>
>> Am 14.09.2016 um 12:49 schrieb Artur Karp:
>>
>> > the word v??a means predators in other contexts too
>>
>> Dear Petra,
>>
>> Are there any contexts in which v??a could mean serpents?
>>
>> Best,
>>
>> Artur Karp
>>
>> 2016-09-14 10:51 GMT+02:00 petra kieffer-p?lz < <kiepue at t-online.de>
>> kiepue at t-online.de>:
>>
>>> Dear Artur,
>>>
>>> the Sinhala Th?pava?saya has been translated by S. Berkwitz, The
>>> Enshrining of the Relics.
>>> On p. 131f. you'll find the translation of this passage as follows:
>>>
>>> "Dear boy! The enshrining of the relics has been done by King
>>> Aj?ta?atru. Create a suitable defense for them." The deity Vi?vakarma, who
>>> heard those words, came and prepared a device outfitted with figures of
>>> wild beasts, and created a device in the relic chamber out of wooden forms
>>> that held shining swords of crystal and that whirled around with a speed
>>> equal to that of the wind."
>>>
>>> By the way the word v??a means predators in other contexts too. Thus we
>>> have diwans (palla?ka) the feet of which are decorated with figures of
>>> beast of prey (Vin IV 299,21f.).
>>>
>>> Best,
>>> Petra Kieffer-P?lz
>>>
>>> Am 14.09.2016 um 08:45 schrieb Artur Karp:
>>>
>>> Dear List,
>>>
>>> Would anyone take pity on me and translate this bit of the Sinhalese
>>> text for me?
>>>
>>> [Sent by Rolf Heinrich Koch:]
>>>
>>> "daruva, Aj?ta?atru rajjuruvan visin dh?tu nidh?naya karavana lada, topi
>>> da ??a sudusu ?rak??vak karav" yi kiya.
>>> e bas ?s? Vi?vakam divyaputra avut vy?lar?pa yukta yantrayak yod? da??in
>>> ne?? karana lada d?payan dh?tu garbhayehi ?v??a puhupat ka?ugena
>>> v?nav?gayak h? sam?na v?gayen sis?r? divann? v?
>>> yantrayak mav?,...
>>>
>>> Sinhala Th?pava?saya (2007) p. 109sq.
>>>
>>> In advance, etc.
>>>
>>> I would be especially grateful for the meaning of vy?lar?pa -  as it is
>>> understood in the text: in the form of ferocius animal(s) [like tigers
>>> or lions] or serpent(s)?
>>>
>>>
>>> Artur
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> 2016-09-12 17:19 GMT+02:00 Rolf Heinrich Koch <
>>> <rolfheiner.koch at gmail.com>rolfheiner.koch at gmail.com>:
>>>
>>>> I am just working on Sinhalese sources of the Buddhacarita.
>>>>
>>>> Regarding *v??asa?gh?tayantan t*he Sinhala Th?pava?saya reads:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> "daruva, Aj?ta?atru rajjuruvan visin dh?tu nidh?naya karavana lada,
>>>> topi da ??a sudusu ?rak??vak karav" yi kiya.
>>>> e bas ?s? Vi?vakam divyaputra avut vy?lar?pa yukta yantrayak yod?
>>>> da??in ne?? karana lada d?payan dh?tu garbhayehi ?v??a puhupat ka?ugena
>>>> v?nav?gayak h? sam?na v?gayen sis?r? divann? v?
>>>> yantrayak mav?,...
>>>>
>>>> Sinhala Th?pava?saya (2007) p. 109sq.
>>>>
>>>> Best
>>>>
>>>> Heiner
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> www.rolfheinrichkoch.wordpress.com
>>>>
>>>> Am 12.09.2016 um 15:03 schrieb Seishi Karashima:
>>>>
>>>> Dear colleagues,
>>>>
>>>> Almost identical passages are found in the *Th?pava?sa*: *The
>>>> chronicle of the Th?pa and the Th?pava?sa: Being a Translation and Edition
>>>> of V?cissaratthera?s Th?pava?sa*, by N.A. Jayawickrama, London 1971:
>>>> Luzac (Sacred Books of the Buddhists / Pali Text Society, v. 28; Unesco
>>>> Collection of Representative Works), pp. 182f.
>>>>
>>>> Jayawickrama translated the passages in question as follows:
>>>>
>>>> Sakka, the king of the deities addressed Vissakamma: 'Ajatasattu, my
>>>> dear, has done the enshrining of the relics ; you provide protection
>>>> there', and despatched him. He came and set up *a contraption with a
>>>> number of figures of ferocious animals* and setting up inside the
>>>> relic chamber (another contraption) which made the wooden figures bearing
>>>> crystal coloured swords revolve with the speed of the wind, he had it
>>>> all joined to one pin, had a rampart of granite in the form of a
>>>> 'brick-hall' 6 built, and having it covered on top with a single
>>>> (stone-slab) had earth thrown in and the ground levelled and had a granite
>>>> thiipa established upon it. (*ibid. *p. 46).
>>>>
>>>> Cf. also *D?ghanik?ya??hakath???k? L?natthava??an?*, ed. Lily De
>>>> Silva, London 1970: Luzac, vol. 2, p. 246, ll. 14ff. *v??asa?gh?tayantan
>>>> ti **kakkhala? pa?ibhayadassana? a??ama??apa?ib{h}addhagaman?dit?ya
>>>> sa?gh??ita? r?pakayanta?** yojesi. ten? ?ha ?ka??har?pak?n??ti ?di*.
>>>>
>>>> With best regards,
>>>> Seishi Karashima
>>>>
>>>> 2016-09-12 21:42 GMT+09:00 Madhav Deshpande < <mmdesh at umich.edu>
>>>> mmdesh at umich.edu>:
>>>>
>>>>> Hi Artur,
>>>>>
>>>>>      I checked Google Images for "Nagayantra", and there are several
>>>>> interesting diagrams and designs for such Yantras, some of which are
>>>>> evidently found in Thai Buddhist temples.  Here is a link:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> <http://www.sak-yant.com/archive/108yant/payanakarach/yantpayanakarach.jpg>
>>>>> http://www.sak-yant.com/archive/108yant/payanakarach/yantpay
>>>>> anakarach.jpg
>>>>>
>>>>> Madhav
>>>>>
>>>>> On Mon, Sep 12, 2016 at 8:32 AM, Artur Karp < <karp at uw.edu.pl>
>>>>> karp at uw.edu.pl> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> > contraption
>>>>>>
>>>>>> :)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> any image of ?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 2016-09-12 14:29 GMT+02:00 Madhav Deshpande < <mmdesh at umich.edu>
>>>>>> mmdesh at umich.edu>:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hi Artur,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>      It probably refers to some contraption surrounded by a host of
>>>>>>> serpents.  Serpents as guardians of hidden underground treasures is a
>>>>>>> reasonably common idea in Indian literature.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Madhav
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Mon, Sep 12, 2016 at 8:24 AM, Artur Karp < <karp at uw.edu.pl>
>>>>>>> karp at uw.edu.pl> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Dear Madhav,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The PTS,s Pali-English Dict.:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> *V??a* - [cp. late Sk. vy??a, see Geiger, *P. Gr*. ? 54?] I. a
>>>>>>>> snake Vism 312 (so read for *va?a*).- 2. a beast of prey [...]
>>>>>>>> *v??a-miga*, a beast of prey, predaceous animal, like tiger,
>>>>>>>> leopard, etc. [...]
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> When in search for the Elixir of immortality Garuda enters the
>>>>>>>> underworld, he kills *two serpents* hidden under the [eternally]
>>>>>>>> revolving wheel. (Mbh. I, 29. 3-9).
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> When the relics of the Buddha are hidden by Ajatasattu in the
>>>>>>>> underground chamber, Vissakamma places over them, for their defence the
>>>>>>>> [eternally] revolving *v??a?sa?gh??a?yanta.*
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> If *v??a* would mean "snake, serpent", then this could be one of
>>>>>>>> the tropes linking both the narrations.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> *Yanta *means "contrivance, artifice, instrument, machine,
>>>>>>>> mechanism" - in what way could it be constructed/pegged together - using
>>>>>>>> serpents? Ataching it to serpents? Giving it a serpentine look?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Artur
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>>>>> <INDOLOGY at list.indology.info>INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>>>>> <indology-owner at list.indology.info>indology-owner at list.indology.info
>>>>> (messages to the list's managing committee)
>>>>> <http://listinfo.indology.info/>http://listinfo.indology.info (where
>>>>> you can change your list options or unsubscribe)
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> INDOLOGY mailing listINDOLOGY at list.indology.infoindology-owner@list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee)http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe)
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________ INDOLOGY mailing list
>>>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info indology-owner at list.indology.info
>>>> (messages to the list's managing committee)
>>>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options
>>>> or unsubscribe)
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________ INDOLOGY mailing list
>>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages
>>> to the list's managing committee) http://listinfo.indology.info (where
>>> you can change your list options or unsubscribe)
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> INDOLOGY mailing listINDOLOGY at list.indology.infoindology-owner@list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee)http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe)
>>
>> -- www.rolfheinrichkoch.wordpress.com
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
>> committee)
>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
>> unsubscribe)
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
> committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
> unsubscribe)
>



-- 
Nagaraj Paturi

Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.

Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies

FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of  Liberal Education,

(Pune, Maharashtra, INDIA )


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From vajpeyi at csds.in  Fri Sep 16 07:20:13 2016
From: vajpeyi at csds.in (Ananya Vajpeyi)
Date: Fri, 16 Sep 16 12:50:13 +0530
Subject: [INDOLOGY] New article on Sanskrit
In-Reply-To: <CALNcvFtSr=22GENaSe4abaay25yvLCDuE=QA7W7fRuE=DJEZsg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAHxuC0SpJJZxof-j0xgb_20QNtSZVa5y5VjuGBb39QPk5K-J5Q@mail.gmail.com>

Dear Professor Karp,

The question of "resistance" arises in a a given political context, which
those of us who live and work in India, and happen to care about Sanskrit,
whether for cultural, scholarly, religious, educational or other reasons,
experience here on a daily basis for the past 2-3 years, but especially
since May 2014.

In this environment, as I am sure you must know from news of current
affairs in this country, everything, from the most innocuous name of a
street or square that no one had paid attention to for decades, to
prestigious national institutions of higher learning; from what people eat
to what people wear; from founding fathers to government holidays; from
textbooks to novels and policy reports to poetry -- every single aspect of
civic life is aggressively being appropriated and painted with a saffron
brush by the ruling dispensation. Minorities have never been so vulnerable
at any time since Partition and Independence, nor has media discourse been
so muted and stifled. (This reportedly happened during the Emergency in the
mid-1970s as well -- but at least then, it was a properly declared period
of emergency, and people were aware that the rule of law had been suspended
in favour of a state of exception).

It is in this very particular and increasingly suffocating situation that
Sanskrit too, has become yet another weapon in the armoury of the Hindu
Right, which it selectively "promotes" (or rather, deploys) -- not because
of love of the language or a genuine understanding of its historical
significance and its wealth of knowledge -- but in order to further a
majoritarian and communal agenda. Scholars and intellectuals -- like others
in public life -- have to resist this climate of intimidation and
censorship, not because they may or may not have this or that linguistic
preference or pedagogical skill, but because Sanskrit is now much more than
an ancient, classical, dead or living language. It's part of everything
that has to be fought over to protect the diversity and inclusiveness of
India, its secular state and its egalitarian Constitution. This is a
difficult proposition when it happens to be a democratic mandate that has
installed a Hindu nationalist party in the Centre, with a majority vote.

My point was that as Indologists, philologists, historians and educators,
we cannot allow the architecture of the Hindu Rashtra to rest on a
scaffolding of Sanskrit. In failing to be aware of the flaws and
contradictions within the complex history of this rich language, in curbing
our criticisms of the way it is implicated in caste ideologies and social
inequality, and in abandoning its pedagogy and cultivation to inept if not
malign government bodies, we are remiss in our responsibility towards the
very thing we claim to love the most.

With best regards,

Ananya Vajpeyi.





On Fri, Sep 16, 2016 at 11:15 AM, Artur Karp <karp at uw.edu.pl> wrote:

> > academics need to step out of the ivory tower and resist the
> government?s manipulation of this ancient language
>
> Dear Ananya,
>
> Why should they *step out* and *resist*? Whatever the government's
> efforts, people aren't going to start speaking/writing Sanskrit.
>
> Do you suspect that replacing some - yes, Islamic and Christian
> (Arabic/Persian and English) - parts of Modern Indian Languages
> vocabularies with their - yes, Hindu (Sanskrit) equivalents could create
> communal tension?
>
> Look at European Languages and the role of Latin/Greek lexemes in their
> development, especially late XIXth century. In the case of my language
> (Polish) many German(ic) lexemes were being then systematically replaced
> with their Latin equivalents. And new Latin/Greek lexemes introduced - to
> describe, by one word, new philosophical, scientific, technological,
> political concepts.
>
> Yes, there were some people who tried to resist this trend and kind of
> re-introduce (largely artificially created) Old-Slavic lexemes. Yes - but
> their efforts were soon forgotten.
>
> Regards,
>
> Artur Karp (ret.)
> University of Warsaw
> Poland
>
>
> --

*Ananya Vajpeyi *
*Fellow*
*Centre for the Study of Developing Societies*
*29 Rajpur Road, Civil Lines*
*New Delhi 110054*
*e: vajpeyi at csds.in <vajpeyi at csds.in>*
*ext: 229*


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From mmdesh at umich.edu  Fri Sep 16 11:15:37 2016
From: mmdesh at umich.edu (Madhav Deshpande)
Date: Fri, 16 Sep 16 07:15:37 -0400
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Bloomfield's Vedic Concordance
Message-ID: <CAB3-dzcTL19RgadYJ8ndm9+bK71r4xDYxdpWmTQKELzXF6mWoA@mail.gmail.com>

Hello Indologists,

     I found a digital version of Vedic Concordance that uses the Macind
font.  I am wondering how I can get a Unicode version.  Also someone had
prepared a Stardict version of Vedic concordance (bloomfield-vedic-sa.tar.gz
<https://www.google.com/url?q=https%3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2Fvvasuki%2Fstardict-sanskrit%2Fraw%2Fmaster%2Fsa-head%2Ftars%2Fbloomfield-vedic-sa.tar.gz&sa=D&sntz=1&usg=AFQjCNGtVtaJJBhjebEFF6G4zIJY_9yCYA>),
listed in some old messages, but I am not able to download one.  Any help?

Madhav Deshpande


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From LubinT at wlu.edu  Fri Sep 16 14:34:00 2016
From: LubinT at wlu.edu (Lubin, Tim)
Date: Fri, 16 Sep 16 14:34:00 +0000
Subject: [INDOLOGY] New article on Sanskrit
In-Reply-To: <CAHxuC0SpJJZxof-j0xgb_20QNtSZVa5y5VjuGBb39QPk5K-J5Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <D4017697.2D777%lubint@wlu.edu>

Dear Artur, et al.,

It is worth noting, for comparative purposes, the success of late 19th-century efforts of groups like the N?gar? Prac?ri?? Sabh? to create a more Sanskritic Hindi out of the north Indian lingua franca Hindustani/Hindvi by promoting the use of Devan?gar?.  This was accompanied by a concerted effort to substitute Sanskrit tatsamas for more words of Perso-Arabic origin in common use (e.g., prat?k?? for intez?r, vyavasth? for intez?m, etc.), to the extent that such words cease to be included in some popular-market Hindi dictionaries.  The result was to nurture a split in the language into two, communally aligned languages, Hindi and Urdu.  (The Bollywood film industry would come to serve as a countervailing force in many cases later.)  A nice account of part of this story (the script part) is provided by Christopher R. King, ?Forging a New Linguistic Identity: The Hindi Movement in Banaras, 1868-1914,? ch. 6 in Sandria B. Freitag, ed., Culture and Power in Banaras: Community, Performance, and Environment, 1800-1980 (Berkeley: University of California Press, 1989).

This of course is not at all like successfully instituting spoken Sanskrit, but as a social movement, it certainly had a long-lasting effect on language use.

Tim

Timothy Lubin
Professor of Religion and Adjunct Professor of Law
Chair of the Department of Religion
Washington and Lee University
Lexington, Virginia 24450

http://home.wlu.edu/~lubint
http://wlu.academia.edu/TimothyLubin
http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/cf_dev/AbsByAuth.cfm?per_id=930949
?

From: INDOLOGY <indology-bounces at list.indology.info<mailto:indology-bounces at list.indology.info>> on behalf of Ananya Vajpeyi <vajpeyi at csds.in<mailto:vajpeyi at csds.in>>
Date: Friday, September 16, 2016 at 3:20 AM
To: Artur Karp <karp at uw.edu.pl<mailto:karp at uw.edu.pl>>
Cc: Indology <indology at list.indology.info<mailto:indology at list.indology.info>>
Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] New article on Sanskrit


Dear Professor Karp,

The question of "resistance" arises in a a given political context, which those of us who live and work in India, and happen to care about Sanskrit, whether for cultural, scholarly, religious, educational or other reasons, experience here on a daily basis for the past 2-3 years, but especially since May 2014.

In this environment, as I am sure you must know from news of current affairs in this country, everything, from the most innocuous name of a street or square that no one had paid attention to for decades, to prestigious national institutions of higher learning; from what people eat to what people wear; from founding fathers to government holidays; from textbooks to novels and policy reports to poetry -- every single aspect of civic life is aggressively being appropriated and painted with a saffron brush by the ruling dispensation. Minorities have never been so vulnerable at any time since Partition and Independence, nor has media discourse been so muted and stifled. (This reportedly happened during the Emergency in the mid-1970s as well -- but at least then, it was a properly declared period of emergency, and people were aware that the rule of law had been suspended in favour of a state of exception).

It is in this very particular and increasingly suffocating situation that Sanskrit too, has become yet another weapon in the armoury of the Hindu Right, which it selectively "promotes" (or rather, deploys) -- not because of love of the language or a genuine understanding of its historical significance and its wealth of knowledge -- but in order to further a majoritarian and communal agenda. Scholars and intellectuals -- like others in public life -- have to resist this climate of intimidation and censorship, not because they may or may not have this or that linguistic preference or pedagogical skill, but because Sanskrit is now much more than an ancient, classical, dead or living language. It's part of everything that has to be fought over to protect the diversity and inclusiveness of India, its secular state and its egalitarian Constitution. This is a difficult proposition when it happens to be a democratic mandate that has installed a Hindu nationalist party in the Centre, with a majority vote.

My point was that as Indologists, philologists, historians and educators, we cannot allow the architecture of the Hindu Rashtra to rest on a scaffolding of Sanskrit. In failing to be aware of the flaws and contradictions within the complex history of this rich language, in curbing our criticisms of the way it is implicated in caste ideologies and social inequality, and in abandoning its pedagogy and cultivation to inept if not malign government bodies, we are remiss in our responsibility towards the very thing we claim to love the most.

With best regards,

Ananya Vajpeyi.





On Fri, Sep 16, 2016 at 11:15 AM, Artur Karp <karp at uw.edu.pl<mailto:karp at uw.edu.pl>> wrote:
> academics need to step out of the ivory tower and resist the government?s manipulation of this ancient language

Dear Ananya,

Why should they step out and resist? Whatever the government's efforts, people aren't going to start speaking/writing Sanskrit.

Do you suspect that replacing some - yes, Islamic and Christian (Arabic/Persian and English) - parts of Modern Indian Languages vocabularies with their - yes, Hindu (Sanskrit) equivalents could create communal tension?

Look at European Languages and the role of Latin/Greek lexemes in their development, especially late XIXth century. In the case of my language (Polish) many German(ic) lexemes were being then systematically replaced with their Latin equivalents. And new Latin/Greek lexemes introduced - to describe, by one word, new philosophical, scientific, technological, political concepts.

Yes, there were some people who tried to resist this trend and kind of re-introduce (largely artificially created) Old-Slavic lexemes. Yes - but their efforts were soon forgotten.

Regards,

Artur Karp (ret.)
University of Warsaw
Poland


--

Ananya Vajpeyi
Fellow
Centre for the Study of Developing Societies
29 Rajpur Road, Civil Lines
New Delhi 110054
e: vajpeyi at csds.in<mailto:vajpeyi at csds.in>
ext: 229




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From mmdesh at umich.edu  Fri Sep 16 16:14:27 2016
From: mmdesh at umich.edu (Madhav Deshpande)
Date: Fri, 16 Sep 16 12:14:27 -0400
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Bloomfield's Vedic Concordance
In-Reply-To: <72777150-4619-494B-A4EA-FD223429B49C@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAB3-dzcwcmUFYEK5MJ=f8QF_LidEtPDprPaKA-Q6oFTGx6=O-g@mail.gmail.com>

Thanks, Dan.

Madhav

On Fri, Sep 16, 2016 at 12:06 PM, Dan Lusthaus <prajnapti at gmail.com> wrote:

> Dear Madhav,
>
> I?m not sure this is what you want, but there are online versions that are
> searchable.
>
> *http://ieed.ullet.net/bloomfield.html
> <http://ieed.ullet.net/bloomfield.html>*
>
> let?s you search with several input methods, including unicode. But it has
> to be used online; it?s not downloadable
>
> If there is a more recent downloadable version of the Concordance than
> http://www.people.fas.harvard.edu/~witzel/VedicConcordance/ReadmeEng.html would
> someone please post the links?
>
> Dan Lusthaus
>
>
>
> On Sep 16, 2016, at 7:15 AM, Madhav Deshpande <mmdesh at umich.edu> wrote:
>
> Hello Indologists,
>
>      I found a digital version of Vedic Concordance that uses the Macind
> font.  I am wondering how I can get a Unicode version.  Also someone had
> prepared a Stardict version of Vedic concordance (
> bloomfield-vedic-sa.tar.gz
> <https://www.google.com/url?q=https%3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2Fvvasuki%2Fstardict-sanskrit%2Fraw%2Fmaster%2Fsa-head%2Ftars%2Fbloomfield-vedic-sa.tar.gz&sa=D&sntz=1&usg=AFQjCNGtVtaJJBhjebEFF6G4zIJY_9yCYA>),
> listed in some old messages, but I am not able to download one.  Any help?
>
> Madhav Deshpande
>
>
>


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From karp at uw.edu.pl  Fri Sep 16 18:07:14 2016
From: karp at uw.edu.pl (Artur Karp)
Date: Fri, 16 Sep 16 20:07:14 +0200
Subject: [INDOLOGY] New article on Sanskrit
In-Reply-To: <D4017697.2D777%lubint@wlu.edu>
Message-ID: <CALNcvFva2Stgk2AccjMDVkmYtQ6J2K0CGdBX7JveynxOcaqqfA@mail.gmail.com>

Once more:

<<To my mind, it's not the question of Sanskrit and the projects of its
re-introduction, but rather of - *why* the Hindutva people are voted into
power?>>

Do we, really, understand the voters' motivations?

Artur

2016-09-16 16:34 GMT+02:00 Lubin, Tim <LubinT at wlu.edu>:

> Dear Artur, et al.,
>
> It is worth noting, for comparative purposes, the success of late
> 19th-century efforts of groups like the N?gar? Prac?ri?? Sabh? to create a
> more Sanskritic Hindi out of the north Indian lingua franca
> Hindustani/Hindvi by promoting the use of Devan?gar?.  This was accompanied
> by a concerted effort to substitute Sanskrit tatsamas for more words of
> Perso-Arabic origin in common use (e.g., prat?k?? for intez?r, vyavasth?
> for intez?m, etc.), to the extent that such words cease to be included in
> some popular-market Hindi dictionaries.  The result was to nurture a split
> in the language into two, communally aligned languages, Hindi and Urdu.
>  (The Bollywood film industry would come to serve as a countervailing force
> in many cases later.)  A nice account of part of this story (the script
> part) is provided by Christopher R. King, ?Forging a New Linguistic
> Identity: The Hindi Movement in Banaras, 1868-1914,? ch. 6 in Sandria B.
> Freitag, ed., *Culture and Power in Banaras: Community, Performance, and
> Environment, 1800-1980* (Berkeley: University of California Press, 1989).
>
> This of course is not at all like successfully instituting spoken
> Sanskrit, but as a social movement, it certainly had a long-lasting effect
> on language use.
>
> Tim
>
> Timothy Lubin
> Professor of Religion and Adjunct Professor of Law
> Chair of the Department of Religion
> Washington and Lee University
> Lexington, Virginia 24450
>
> http://home.wlu.edu/~lubint
> http://wlu.academia.edu/TimothyLubin
> http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/cf_dev/AbsByAuth.cfm?per_id=930949
> ?
>
> From: INDOLOGY <indology-bounces at list.indology.info> on behalf of Ananya
> Vajpeyi <vajpeyi at csds.in>
> Date: Friday, September 16, 2016 at 3:20 AM
> To: Artur Karp <karp at uw.edu.pl>
> Cc: Indology <indology at list.indology.info>
> Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] New article on Sanskrit
>
>
> Dear Professor Karp,
>
> The question of "resistance" arises in a a given political context, which
> those of us who live and work in India, and happen to care about Sanskrit,
> whether for cultural, scholarly, religious, educational or other reasons,
> experience here on a daily basis for the past 2-3 years, but especially
> since May 2014.
>
> In this environment, as I am sure you must know from news of current
> affairs in this country, everything, from the most innocuous name of a
> street or square that no one had paid attention to for decades, to
> prestigious national institutions of higher learning; from what people eat
> to what people wear; from founding fathers to government holidays; from
> textbooks to novels and policy reports to poetry -- every single aspect of
> civic life is aggressively being appropriated and painted with a saffron
> brush by the ruling dispensation. Minorities have never been so vulnerable
> at any time since Partition and Independence, nor has media discourse been
> so muted and stifled. (This reportedly happened during the Emergency in the
> mid-1970s as well -- but at least then, it was a properly declared period
> of emergency, and people were aware that the rule of law had been suspended
> in favour of a state of exception).
>
> It is in this very particular and increasingly suffocating situation that
> Sanskrit too, has become yet another weapon in the armoury of the Hindu
> Right, which it selectively "promotes" (or rather, deploys) -- not because
> of love of the language or a genuine understanding of its historical
> significance and its wealth of knowledge -- but in order to further a
> majoritarian and communal agenda. Scholars and intellectuals -- like others
> in public life -- have to resist this climate of intimidation and
> censorship, not because they may or may not have this or that linguistic
> preference or pedagogical skill, but because Sanskrit is now much more than
> an ancient, classical, dead or living language. It's part of everything
> that has to be fought over to protect the diversity and inclusiveness of
> India, its secular state and its egalitarian Constitution. This is a
> difficult proposition when it happens to be a democratic mandate that has
> installed a Hindu nationalist party in the Centre, with a majority vote.
>
> My point was that as Indologists, philologists, historians and educators,
> we cannot allow the architecture of the Hindu Rashtra to rest on a
> scaffolding of Sanskrit. In failing to be aware of the flaws and
> contradictions within the complex history of this rich language, in curbing
> our criticisms of the way it is implicated in caste ideologies and social
> inequality, and in abandoning its pedagogy and cultivation to inept if not
> malign government bodies, we are remiss in our responsibility towards the
> very thing we claim to love the most.
>
> With best regards,
>
> Ananya Vajpeyi.
>
>
>
>
>
> On Fri, Sep 16, 2016 at 11:15 AM, Artur Karp <karp at uw.edu.pl> wrote:
>
>> > academics need to step out of the ivory tower and resist the
>> government?s manipulation of this ancient language
>>
>> Dear Ananya,
>>
>> Why should they *step out* and *resist*? Whatever the government's
>> efforts, people aren't going to start speaking/writing Sanskrit.
>>
>> Do you suspect that replacing some - yes, Islamic and Christian
>> (Arabic/Persian and English) - parts of Modern Indian Languages
>> vocabularies with their - yes, Hindu (Sanskrit) equivalents could create
>> communal tension?
>>
>> Look at European Languages and the role of Latin/Greek lexemes in their
>> development, especially late XIXth century. In the case of my language
>> (Polish) many German(ic) lexemes were being then systematically replaced
>> with their Latin equivalents. And new Latin/Greek lexemes introduced - to
>> describe, by one word, new philosophical, scientific, technological,
>> political concepts.
>>
>> Yes, there were some people who tried to resist this trend and kind of
>> re-introduce (largely artificially created) Old-Slavic lexemes. Yes - but
>> their efforts were soon forgotten.
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Artur Karp (ret.)
>> University of Warsaw
>> Poland
>>
>>
>> --
>
> *Ananya Vajpeyi *
> *Fellow*
> *Centre for the Study of Developing Societies*
> *29 Rajpur Road, Civil Lines*
> *New Delhi 110054*
> *e: vajpeyi at csds.in <vajpeyi at csds.in>*
> *ext: 229*
>
>
>


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From hspier.muktabodha at gmail.com  Fri Sep 16 23:49:45 2016
From: hspier.muktabodha at gmail.com (Harry Spier)
Date: Fri, 16 Sep 16 19:49:45 -0400
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Bloomfield's Vedic Concordance
In-Reply-To: <CAB3-dzcTL19RgadYJ8ndm9+bK71r4xDYxdpWmTQKELzXF6mWoA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAPW7aQH6fOVOK2gd5vsv0cQipQvNBDwyGAa8Vz7siFhQHnFCnA@mail.gmail.com>

I made a text file in Harvard-Kyoto transliteration for my own use. Since
it is a text file and in a transliteration that doesn't use diacriticals it
can be read on any platform without any special fonts installed and can be
searched with any text editor or word processor.

If anyone wants a copy then let me know.


Regards,
Harry Spier

On Fri, Sep 16, 2016 at 7:15 AM, Madhav Deshpande <mmdesh at umich.edu> wrote:

> Hello Indologists,
>
>      I found a digital version of Vedic Concordance that uses the Macind
> font.  I am wondering how I can get a Unicode version.  Also someone had
> prepared a Stardict version of Vedic concordance (
> bloomfield-vedic-sa.tar.gz
> <https://www.google.com/url?q=https%3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2Fvvasuki%2Fstardict-sanskrit%2Fraw%2Fmaster%2Fsa-head%2Ftars%2Fbloomfield-vedic-sa.tar.gz&sa=D&sntz=1&usg=AFQjCNGtVtaJJBhjebEFF6G4zIJY_9yCYA>),
> listed in some old messages, but I am not able to download one.  Any help?
>
> Madhav Deshpande
>
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
> committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
> unsubscribe)
>


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From nmisra at gmail.com  Sat Sep 17 04:08:19 2016
From: nmisra at gmail.com (Nityanand Misra)
Date: Sat, 17 Sep 16 09:38:19 +0530
Subject: [INDOLOGY] New article on Sanskrit
In-Reply-To: <CAHxuC0SpJJZxof-j0xgb_20QNtSZVa5y5VjuGBb39QPk5K-J5Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAATk=rAjikBWPbpjyd4dz74q7Xch5Y-Bg3CZPwFYeuKqkB48Jg@mail.gmail.com>

On 16 September 2016 at 12:50, Ananya Vajpeyi <vajpeyi at csds.in> wrote:

>
> Minorities have never been so vulnerable at any time since Partition and
> Independence, nor has media discourse been so muted and stifled. (This
> reportedly happened during the Emergency in the mid-1970s as well -- but at
> least then, it was a properly declared period of emergency, and people were
> aware that the rule of law had been suspended in favour of a state of
> exception).
>
>
>
Dear Dr. Vajpayee

Is there any statistical evidence (for example, communal violence rate or
casualties/number of communal riots per capita) to back the claim that
minorities in India have never been so vulnerable since 1947 as they are
now? As per the recently released ?Crime in India? 2015 report by the
National Crime Records Bureau (NCRB), number of riots were almost the same
in 2015 as in 2014: there have been more agrarian riots, but less communal
riots.

The full NCRB 2015 report is here:
http://ncrb.gov.in/StatPublications/CII/CII2015/FILES/CrimeInIndia2015.pdf
There are several reports summarizing the riot statistics, including one in
The Hindu here:
http://www.thehindu.com/news/national/327-rise-in-agrarian-riots-in-2015-ncrb-report-shows/article9051348.ece


Same for media discourse: are there any data-based statistics available to
conclude that media discourse is the most muted or stifled now in India?

Would it not better be if such a claims are backed by evidence based on
data?

Thanks, Nityanand


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From arlogriffiths at hotmail.com  Sat Sep 17 07:06:08 2016
From: arlogriffiths at hotmail.com (Arlo Griffiths)
Date: Sat, 17 Sep 16 07:06:08 +0000
Subject: [INDOLOGY] New article on Sanskrit
In-Reply-To: <CAATk=rAjikBWPbpjyd4dz74q7Xch5Y-Bg3CZPwFYeuKqkB48Jg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <HE1PR0801MB1772778BED67EF0366D2796BA5F20@HE1PR0801MB1772.eurprd08.prod.outlook.com>

Dear Dr. Vajpayee,


I join Nityanand's call in favor of keeping political messages as close as possible to reliable reports on facts. I was concerned by your comparing the Emergency of the 1970s in a positive light with the current government of India. If we cannot all agree that democratic rule is better than any alternative, then it seems to me that we lose all foundation for debate.


Arlo Griffiths

?cole fran?aise d'Extr?me-Orient

________________________________
From: INDOLOGY <indology-bounces at list.indology.info> on behalf of Nityanand Misra <nmisra at gmail.com>
Sent: Saturday, September 17, 2016 4:08 AM
To: Ananya Vajpeyi
Cc: Indology
Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] New article on Sanskrit



On 16 September 2016 at 12:50, Ananya Vajpeyi <vajpeyi at csds.in<mailto:vajpeyi at csds.in>> wrote:

Minorities have never been so vulnerable at any time since Partition and Independence, nor has media discourse been so muted and stifled. (This reportedly happened during the Emergency in the mid-1970s as well -- but at least then, it was a properly declared period of emergency, and people were aware that the rule of law had been suspended in favour of a state of exception).



Dear Dr. Vajpayee

Is there any statistical evidence (for example, communal violence rate or casualties/number of communal riots per capita) to back the claim that minorities in India have never been so vulnerable since 1947 as they are now? As per the recently released "Crime in India" 2015 report by the National Crime Records Bureau (NCRB), number of riots were almost the same in 2015 as in 2014: there have been more agrarian riots, but less communal riots.

The full NCRB 2015 report is here: http://ncrb.gov.in/StatPublications/CII/CII2015/FILES/CrimeInIndia2015.pdf
There are several reports summarizing the riot statistics, including one in The Hindu here: http://www.thehindu.com/news/national/327-rise-in-agrarian-riots-in-2015-ncrb-report-shows/article9051348.ece

Same for media discourse: are there any data-based statistics available to conclude that media discourse is the most muted or stifled now in India?

Would it not better be if such a claims are backed by evidence based on data?

Thanks, Nityanand


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From franceschini.marco at fastwebnet.it  Sat Sep 17 07:18:17 2016
From: franceschini.marco at fastwebnet.it (Marco Franceschini)
Date: Sat, 17 Sep 16 09:18:17 +0200
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Bloomfield's Vedic Concordance
In-Reply-To: <CAPW7aQH6fOVOK2gd5vsv0cQipQvNBDwyGAa8Vz7siFhQHnFCnA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <B5946C53-3EB0-4949-B278-DA44C6D1CE5B@fastwebnet.it>

Dear Madhav and all,

the digitization of Bloomfield?s Concordance was part of my MA thesis (2001). In the original file (i.e., the one found by Madhav) a non-Unicode compliant font (MacInd) was used, but later on I created a new version of it using Gandhari Unicode. You can get the file through this link:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/gxvjyij2fd4ffwf/Vedic%20Concordance%20ORI%20UNICODE.rtf?dl=0

In the following years, I kept on working on the Concordance and finally I published a considerably enhanced version of it in the Harvard Oriental Series (2007). For obvious copyright reasons, I can?t circulate the HOS file; however, you might want to have a look at the preview uploaded in Academia.

Best wishes,

Marco
---

Marco Franceschini
???????????
Fixed-term Researcher
University of Bologna
Department of History and Cultures
via Zamboni 33 - 40126 Bologna - Italy
marco.franceschini3 at unibo.it
---

Il giorno 17/set/2016, alle ore 01:49, Harry Spier <hspier.muktabodha at gmail.com> ha scritto:

> I made a text file in Harvard-Kyoto transliteration for my own use. Since it is a text file and in a transliteration that doesn't use diacriticals it can be read on any platform without any special fonts installed and can be searched with any text editor or word processor.
> 
> If anyone wants a copy then let me know.
> 
> 
> Regards,
> Harry Spier
> 
> On Fri, Sep 16, 2016 at 7:15 AM, Madhav Deshpande <mmdesh at umich.edu> wrote:
> Hello Indologists,
> 
>      I found a digital version of Vedic Concordance that uses the Macind font.  I am wondering how I can get a Unicode version.  Also someone had prepared a Stardict version of Vedic concordance (bloomfield-vedic-sa.tar.gz), listed in some old messages, but I am not able to download one.  Any help?
> 
> Madhav Deshpande
> 
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe)
> 
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe)



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From vajpeyi at csds.in  Sat Sep 17 07:55:30 2016
From: vajpeyi at csds.in (Ananya Vajpeyi)
Date: Sat, 17 Sep 16 13:25:30 +0530
Subject: [INDOLOGY] New article on Sanskrit
In-Reply-To: <HE1PR0801MB1772778BED67EF0366D2796BA5F20@HE1PR0801MB1772.eurprd08.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <CAHxuC0RaA_OZ88TjbkrrdWc2+qpqdZadBpxDStfeOuf4AMkt+A@mail.gmail.com>

I would be glad to list for the benefit of those who have been cut off from
daily news of Indian politics for the past two and half years, the
innumerable "facts" of discrimination, beatings, lynchings, rapes, arson
and killings of Muslims, Dalits, Christians, tribals and other vulnerable
groups all over the country. However, I fear it would take us rather far
afield from the principal fact-based issue addressed in this article --
viz., the Modi government's policies with regards to Sanskrit language
education, and the growing misuse of Sanskrit in the BJP-RSS agenda to
saffronize the Indian polity, against the spirit and the letter of the
Constitution.

The "facts" of majoritarianism came up as the context in which to answer
Artur Karp's query, since the "facts" about the role of Sanskrit in
furthering Hindutva ideology have to be understood against this broader
background of the ongoing struggle in India's politics.
To your point, Arlo Griffiths (and I would expect a linguist to take the
trouble to spell my name correctly, if you wanted to address me), it might
be worth debating, in some other forum and on some other occasion, the
relative merits and demerits of covertly illiberal democracy as against
explicitly authoritarian rule. If an "elected" BJP-PDP state government can
feel it within its powers to impose close to 10 weeks of curfew in Jammu
and Kashmir, killing, arresting, detaining and injuring civilians at will,
deploying thousands of additional military and paramilitary forces on top
of the already bellicose and excessive militarization of the Valley,
clearly something is going terribly wrong with Indian democracy in the
hands of the Hindu Right.

I would point you to dozens of news reports, op-eds, analytical articles,
policy documents, legal opinions and so on, that leave no room for doubt
about the alarming encroachment of the state of exception on the rule of
law in India under the current dispensation, democratically elected as it
is, but Indology in my view is not the appropriate space for that
conversation.

Ananya Vajpeyi
Fellow, CSDS
vajpeyi at csds.in


On Sat, Sep 17, 2016 at 12:36 PM, Arlo Griffiths <arlogriffiths at hotmail.com>
wrote:

> Dear Dr. Vajpayee,
>
>
> I join Nityanand's call in favor of keeping political messages as close as
> possible to reliable reports on facts. I was concerned by your comparing
> the Emergency of the 1970s in a positive light with the current government
> of India. If we cannot all agree that democratic rule is better than any
> alternative, then it seems to me that we lose all foundation for debate.
>
>
> Arlo Griffiths
>
> ?cole fran?aise d'Extr?me-Orient
>
> ------------------------------
> *From:* INDOLOGY <indology-bounces at list.indology.info> on behalf of
> Nityanand Misra <nmisra at gmail.com>
> *Sent:* Saturday, September 17, 2016 4:08 AM
> *To:* Ananya Vajpeyi
> *Cc:* Indology
> *Subject:* Re: [INDOLOGY] New article on Sanskrit
>
>
>
> On 16 September 2016 at 12:50, Ananya Vajpeyi <vajpeyi at csds.in> wrote:
>
>>
>> Minorities have never been so vulnerable at any time since Partition and
>> Independence, nor has media discourse been so muted and stifled. (This
>> reportedly happened during the Emergency in the mid-1970s as well -- but at
>> least then, it was a properly declared period of emergency, and people were
>> aware that the rule of law had been suspended in favour of a state of
>> exception).
>>
>>
>>
> Dear Dr. Vajpayee
>
> Is there any statistical evidence (for example, communal violence rate or
> casualties/number of communal riots per capita) to back the claim that
> minorities in India have never been so vulnerable since 1947 as they are
> now? As per the recently released ?Crime in India? 2015 report by the
> National Crime Records Bureau (NCRB), number of riots were almost the same
> in 2015 as in 2014: there have been more agrarian riots, but less communal
> riots.
>
> The full NCRB 2015 report is here: http://ncrb.gov.in/
> StatPublications/CII/CII2015/FILES/CrimeInIndia2015.pdf
> There are several reports summarizing the riot statistics, including one
> in The Hindu here: http://www.thehindu.com/news/
> national/327-rise-in-agrarian-riots-in-2015-ncrb-report-
> shows/article9051348.ece
>
> Same for media discourse: are there any data-based statistics available to
> conclude that media discourse is the most muted or stifled now in India?
>
> Would it not better be if such a claims are backed by evidence based on
> data?
>
> Thanks, Nityanand
>



-- 

*Ananya Vajpeyi *
*Fellow*
*Centre for the Study of Developing Societies*
*29 Rajpur Road, Civil Lines*
*New Delhi 110054*
*e: vajpeyi at csds.in <vajpeyi at csds.in>*
*ext: 229*


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From mmdesh at umich.edu  Sat Sep 17 10:18:01 2016
From: mmdesh at umich.edu (Madhav Deshpande)
Date: Sat, 17 Sep 16 06:18:01 -0400
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Bloomfield's Vedic Concordance
In-Reply-To: <B5946C53-3EB0-4949-B278-DA44C6D1CE5B@fastwebnet.it>
Message-ID: <CAB3-dzeNioNqczeSauq1G4wJuoVTsos36pEnO1poJ94UTzymrA@mail.gmail.com>

Thanks, Marco.

Madhav

On Sat, Sep 17, 2016 at 3:18 AM, Marco Franceschini <
franceschini.marco at fastwebnet.it> wrote:

> Dear Madhav and all,
>
> the digitization of Bloomfield?s Concordance was part of my MA thesis
> (2001). In the original file (i.e., the one found by Madhav) a non-Unicode
> compliant font (MacInd) was used, but later on I created a new version of
> it using Gandhari Unicode. You can get the file through this link:
>
> https://www.dropbox.com/s/gxvjyij2fd4ffwf/Vedic%
> 20Concordance%20ORI%20UNICODE.rtf?dl=0
>
> In the following years, I kept on working on the Concordance and finally I
> published a considerably enhanced version of it in the Harvard Oriental
> Series (2007). For obvious copyright reasons, I can?t circulate the HOS
> file; however, you might want to have a look at the preview uploaded in
> Academia
> <https://www.academia.edu/27371779/An_Updated_Vedic_Concordance._2007_>.
>
> Best wishes,
>
> Marco
> ---
>
> Marco Franceschini
> ???????????
> Fixed-term Researcher
> University of Bologna
> Department of History and Cultures
> via Zamboni 33 - 40126 Bologna - Italy
> marco.franceschini3 at unibo.it
> ---
>
> Il giorno 17/set/2016, alle ore 01:49, Harry Spier <
> hspier.muktabodha at gmail.com> ha scritto:
>
> I made a text file in Harvard-Kyoto transliteration for my own use. Since
> it is a text file and in a transliteration that doesn't use diacriticals it
> can be read on any platform without any special fonts installed and can be
> searched with any text editor or word processor.
>
> If anyone wants a copy then let me know.
>
>
> Regards,
> Harry Spier
>
> On Fri, Sep 16, 2016 at 7:15 AM, Madhav Deshpande <mmdesh at umich.edu>
> wrote:
>
>> Hello Indologists,
>>
>>      I found a digital version of Vedic Concordance that uses the Macind
>> font.  I am wondering how I can get a Unicode version.  Also someone had
>> prepared a Stardict version of Vedic concordance (
>> bloomfield-vedic-sa.tar.gz
>> <https://www.google.com/url?q=https%3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2Fvvasuki%2Fstardict-sanskrit%2Fraw%2Fmaster%2Fsa-head%2Ftars%2Fbloomfield-vedic-sa.tar.gz&sa=D&sntz=1&usg=AFQjCNGtVtaJJBhjebEFF6G4zIJY_9yCYA>),
>> listed in some old messages, but I am not able to download one.  Any help?
>>
>> Madhav Deshpande
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
>> committee)
>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
>> unsubscribe)
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
> committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
> unsubscribe)
>
>
>


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From hr at ivs.edu  Sat Sep 17 12:21:30 2016
From: hr at ivs.edu (HdGoswami)
Date: Sat, 17 Sep 16 05:21:30 -0700
Subject: [INDOLOGY] New article on Sanskrit
In-Reply-To: <HE1PR0801MB1772778BED67EF0366D2796BA5F20@HE1PR0801MB1772.eurprd08.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <1474114803-1625228.01567226.fu8HCJGWQ030111@rs143.luxsci.com>

Has meaningful, learned debate on posible forms of governance really been settled forever, in favor of democracy? 


> On Sep 17, 2016, at 12:06 AM, Arlo Griffiths <arlogriffiths at hotmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Dear Dr. Vajpayee,
> 
> I join Nityanand's call in favor of keeping political messages as close as possible to reliable reports on facts. I was concerned by your comparing the Emergency of the 1970s in a positive light with the current government of India. If we cannot all agree that democratic rule is better than any alternative, then it seems to me that we lose all foundation for debate. 
> 
> Arlo Griffiths
> ?cole fran?aise d'Extr?me-Orient
> 
> From: INDOLOGY <indology-bounces at list.indology.info <mailto:indology-bounces at list.indology.info>> on behalf of Nityanand Misra <nmisra at gmail.com <mailto:nmisra at gmail.com>>
> Sent: Saturday, September 17, 2016 4:08 AM
> To: Ananya Vajpeyi
> Cc: Indology
> Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] New article on Sanskrit
>  
> 
> 
> On 16 September 2016 at 12:50, Ananya Vajpeyi <vajpeyi at csds.in <mailto:vajpeyi at csds.in>> wrote:
> 
> Minorities have never been so vulnerable at any time since Partition and Independence, nor has media discourse been so muted and stifled. (This reportedly happened during the Emergency in the mid-1970s as well -- but at least then, it was a properly declared period of emergency, and people were aware that the rule of law had been suspended in favour of a state of exception). 
> 
> 
> 
> Dear Dr. Vajpayee
> 
> Is there any statistical evidence (for example, communal violence rate or casualties/number of communal riots per capita) to back the claim that minorities in India have never been so vulnerable since 1947 as they are now? As per the recently released ?Crime in India? 2015 report by the National Crime Records Bureau (NCRB), number of riots were almost the same in 2015 as in 2014: there have been more agrarian riots, but less communal riots.
> 
> The full NCRB 2015 report is here: http://ncrb.gov.in/StatPublications/CII/CII2015/FILES/CrimeInIndia2015.pdf <http://ncrb.gov.in/StatPublications/CII/CII2015/FILES/CrimeInIndia2015.pdf>
> There are several reports summarizing the riot statistics, including one in The Hindu here: http://www.thehindu.com/news/national/327-rise-in-agrarian-riots-in-2015-ncrb-report-shows/article9051348.ece <http://www.thehindu.com/news/national/327-rise-in-agrarian-riots-in-2015-ncrb-report-shows/article9051348.ece> 
> 
> Same for media discourse: are there any data-based statistics available to conclude that media discourse is the most muted or stifled now in India? 
> 
> Would it not better be if such a claims are backed by evidence based on data?
> 
> Thanks, Nityanand
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info <mailto:INDOLOGY at list.indology.info>
> indology-owner at list.indology.info <mailto:indology-owner at list.indology.info> (messages to the list's managing committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info <http://listinfo.indology.info/> (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe)



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From mkapstei at uchicago.edu  Sat Sep 17 12:39:43 2016
From: mkapstei at uchicago.edu (Matthew Kapstein)
Date: Sat, 17 Sep 16 12:39:43 +0000
Subject: [INDOLOGY] New article on Sanskrit
In-Reply-To: <1474114803-1625228.01567226.fu8HCJGWQ030111@rs143.luxsci.com>
Message-ID: <82C3E42590D939418C74DD76B97DDED047BC660C@xm-mbx-06-prod>

The current discussion is drifting away from
dedicated research on Indology as a distinct academic
discipline, which is the purpose of this Listserve.

Perhaps there is a political-debates-list that some may wish to join.

Matthew Kapstein
Directeur d'?tudes,
Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes

Numata Visiting Professor of Buddhist Studies,
The University of Chicago
________________________________



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From vajpeyi at csds.in  Sat Sep 17 13:21:08 2016
From: vajpeyi at csds.in (Ananya Vajpeyi)
Date: Sat, 17 Sep 16 18:51:08 +0530
Subject: [INDOLOGY] New article on Sanskrit
In-Reply-To: <82C3E42590D939418C74DD76B97DDED047BC660C@xm-mbx-06-prod>
Message-ID: <CAHxuC0QwOm70N5XfPBOVzCXXuyS-RQ7S9DwxqDiZPP7=xj2XUA@mail.gmail.com>

Yes exactly, thanks Professor Kapstein -- the article is about Sanskrit --
and I would welcome queries or responses based on what's in the article,
rather than leading questions that tend in the direction of
thinly-disguised apologetics for the ruling party.

Ananya Vajpeyi.


On Saturday, September 17, 2016, Matthew Kapstein <mkapstei at uchicago.edu>
wrote:

> The current discussion is drifting away from
> dedicated research on Indology as a distinct academic
> discipline, which is the purpose of this Listserve.
>
> Perhaps there is a political-debates-list that some may wish to join.
>
> Matthew Kapstein
> Directeur d'?tudes,
> Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes
>
> Numata Visiting Professor of Buddhist Studies,
> The University of Chicago
> ------------------------------
>
>

-- 
Sent on the fly, please excuse typos.


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From arlogriffiths at hotmail.com  Sun Sep 18 06:26:50 2016
From: arlogriffiths at hotmail.com (Arlo Griffiths)
Date: Sun, 18 Sep 16 06:26:50 +0000
Subject: [INDOLOGY] New article on Sanskrit
In-Reply-To: <CAHxuC0RaA_OZ88TjbkrrdWc2+qpqdZadBpxDStfeOuf4AMkt+A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <HE1PR0801MB17728A534AFBA8F7D920605AA5F50@HE1PR0801MB1772.eurprd08.prod.outlook.com>

Dear Dr. Vajpeyi,


I do apologize for having misspelled your name. Just to make this explicit, because it was not clear from your other message whether you have now classified me among those who offer "thinly-veiled apologetics" of the current government of India's policies: I did not write because I disagree with your political positions, but because I wondered whether it is helpful for your cause, and morally defensible, to be anything but critical of the Emergency. I simultaneously admit that I have no more than superficial knowledge of that period of Indian history, and will be happy to receive information, on or off list, that will allow me to nuance my perspective.


Part of the problem in the increasingly polarized political scenes we see all over the world is that people can't even agree on what the facts are, and refuse to talk about them in a manner that is conducive to solving problems. As a generally silent observer of political debates on this list, I conclude by expressing the hope that you and Nityanand Misra (who has taken it upon himself to challenge you on most occasions when you write to the list), and more generally the two political camps that you two seem to represent, will start to attempt to find some common ground. At least on this list such an effort may actually be realistically achievable.


With best wishes,


Arlo Griffiths

?cole fran?aise d'Extr?me-Orient




________________________________
From: Ananya Vajpeyi <vajpeyi at csds.in>
Sent: Saturday, September 17, 2016 7:55 AM
To: Arlo Griffiths
Cc: Nityanand Misra; Indology
Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] New article on Sanskrit



I would be glad to list for the benefit of those who have been cut off from daily news of Indian politics for the past two and half years, the innumerable "facts" of discrimination, beatings, lynchings, rapes, arson and killings of Muslims, Dalits, Christians, tribals and other vulnerable groups all over the country. However, I fear it would take us rather far afield from the principal fact-based issue addressed in this article -- viz., the Modi government's policies with regards to Sanskrit language education, and the growing misuse of Sanskrit in the BJP-RSS agenda to saffronize the Indian polity, against the spirit and the letter of the Constitution.

The "facts" of majoritarianism came up as the context in which to answer Artur Karp's query, since the "facts" about the role of Sanskrit in furthering Hindutva ideology have to be understood against this broader background of the ongoing struggle in India's politics.
To your point, Arlo Griffiths (and I would expect a linguist to take the trouble to spell my name correctly, if you wanted to address me), it might be worth debating, in some other forum and on some other occasion, the relative merits and demerits of covertly illiberal democracy as against explicitly authoritarian rule. If an "elected" BJP-PDP state government can feel it within its powers to impose close to 10 weeks of curfew in Jammu and Kashmir, killing, arresting, detaining and injuring civilians at will, deploying thousands of additional military and paramilitary forces on top of the already bellicose and excessive militarization of the Valley, clearly something is going terribly wrong with Indian democracy in the hands of the Hindu Right.

I would point you to dozens of news reports, op-eds, analytical articles, policy documents, legal opinions and so on, that leave no room for doubt about the alarming encroachment of the state of exception on the rule of law in India under the current dispensation, democratically elected as it is, but Indology in my view is not the appropriate space for that conversation.

Ananya Vajpeyi
Fellow, CSDS
vajpeyi at csds.in<mailto:vajpeyi at csds.in>


On Sat, Sep 17, 2016 at 12:36 PM, Arlo Griffiths <arlogriffiths at hotmail.com<mailto:arlogriffiths at hotmail.com>> wrote:

Dear Dr. Vajpayee,


I join Nityanand's call in favor of keeping political messages as close as possible to reliable reports on facts. I was concerned by your comparing the Emergency of the 1970s in a positive light with the current government of India. If we cannot all agree that democratic rule is better than any alternative, then it seems to me that we lose all foundation for debate.


Arlo Griffiths

?cole fran?aise d'Extr?me-Orient

________________________________
From: INDOLOGY <indology-bounces at list.indology.info<mailto:indology-bounces at list.indology.info>> on behalf of Nityanand Misra <nmisra at gmail.com<mailto:nmisra at gmail.com>>
Sent: Saturday, September 17, 2016 4:08 AM
To: Ananya Vajpeyi
Cc: Indology
Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] New article on Sanskrit



On 16 September 2016 at 12:50, Ananya Vajpeyi <vajpeyi at csds.in<mailto:vajpeyi at csds.in>> wrote:

Minorities have never been so vulnerable at any time since Partition and Independence, nor has media discourse been so muted and stifled. (This reportedly happened during the Emergency in the mid-1970s as well -- but at least then, it was a properly declared period of emergency, and people were aware that the rule of law had been suspended in favour of a state of exception).



Dear Dr. Vajpayee

Is there any statistical evidence (for example, communal violence rate or casualties/number of communal riots per capita) to back the claim that minorities in India have never been so vulnerable since 1947 as they are now? As per the recently released "Crime in India" 2015 report by the National Crime Records Bureau (NCRB), number of riots were almost the same in 2015 as in 2014: there have been more agrarian riots, but less communal riots.

The full NCRB 2015 report is here: http://ncrb.gov.in/StatPublications/CII/CII2015/FILES/CrimeInIndia2015.pdf
There are several reports summarizing the riot statistics, including one in The Hindu here: http://www.thehindu.com/news/national/327-rise-in-agrarian-riots-in-2015-ncrb-report-shows/article9051348.ece

Same for media discourse: are there any data-based statistics available to conclude that media discourse is the most muted or stifled now in India?

Would it not better be if such a claims are backed by evidence based on data?

Thanks, Nityanand



--

Ananya Vajpeyi
Fellow
Centre for the Study of Developing Societies
29 Rajpur Road, Civil Lines
New Delhi 110054
e: vajpeyi at csds.in<mailto:vajpeyi at csds.in>
ext: 229


[https://docs.google.com/uc?export=download&id=0B0BiexZKrQe8OEU4VGpWU05CTk0&revid=0B0BiexZKrQe8dlBRTWdWWkZFaHdKV3Z0WWoxQnh6Sm1zYkp3PQ]



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From jemhouben at gmail.com  Sun Sep 18 07:19:26 2016
From: jemhouben at gmail.com (Jan E.M. Houben)
Date: Sun, 18 Sep 16 09:19:26 +0200
Subject: [INDOLOGY] New article on Sanskrit
In-Reply-To: <CAHxuC0TrFNU_-7A5pZgwqHXdJUnNKsDHQaafvYeg8-4M5VfmgA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAGCGLoAaznuq-tuwFzc+Uhzr_zpbbE33nrb0xOAkWFTCx9yLhA@mail.gmail.com>

Dear Ananya,
Thanks for sharing this valuable argument and position, which not only
deserves close and critical attention of Sanskritists all over the world,
it also deserves to be translated, at least for its main outlines, into
Hindi, Urdu and especially Sanskrit, in order to reach those most directly
concerned.

Let us take one out of numerous important points in your argument:
?It's [Sanskrit is] part of everything that has to be fought over
to protect the diversity and inclusiveness of India, its secular state and
its
egalitarian Constitution.?
How to say this in Sanskrit?
Several possibilities, here is my proposal:
???????? ?????? ??????? ?????????????,
??????? ??????????-?????????-???????????? ? ???????????????????????? ?
??????????? ?

After all, why should we systematically refuse to speak the language of
those about whom we are discussing ? Nevertheless, in Sanskrit studies this
is exactly what has been going on since at least the beginning of the 19th
century.
And was it not precisely the exclusive focus on the archival function and
the systematic neglect of the communicative function of Sanskrit which
contributed significantly to its antiquarianization and to the complete
marginalization of contemporaneous carriers of the Sanskrit tradition?
Q: Was Sanskrit then a living language or means of communication when it
was discovered by westerners ? R: A crucial personality is here Melputt?r
N?r?ya?a Bha??a : on the one hand he argued, in the beginning of the 17th
century, for a liberal approach to Sanskrit grammar and gives a P??inian
grammar of ?living? Sanskrit
-- see ?P??inian grammar of living Sanskrit?: www.academia.edu/28515426 --
on the other hand he was aware of westerners who show both lack of respect
and curiosity for Brahmins (tantudh?rin) and their teachings (C. Rajendran
2008: 64 referring to Prabandhama?jar? ed. N.P. Unni p. 295-296).
In order to deal AT ONCE with the lack of awareness of Sanskrit and its
precious heritage outside India (not counting the very small number of
specialists dispersed over a few academic institutions) AND the danger of
its one-sided excess within India, I propose to invoke the regulatory
concept of ?ideodiversity? (??-???????, which, within cultural and
intellectual evolution, is or could be what ?biodiversity? ???-??????? is
within biological evolution):
see my article ?La ideodiversidad como valor planetario?
which recently appeared in: Eadem utraque Europa : revista de historia
cultural e intelectual,
A?o 12, No. 17, Agosto 2016, ISSN 1885-7221, pp. 11-42, trilingual summary
at
www.academia.edu/28565726
The entire article can be briefly summarized in Sanskrit by referring to
the view of Bhartrhari
praj?? viveka? labhate bhinnair ?gama-dar?anai? |
kiyad v? ?akyam unnetu? svatarkam anudh?vat? ||
(view of Bhartrhari as formulated probably by his student: note, in
addition to other arguments, the exceptional and unnecessary metrical
clumsiness in p?da a ; to write a metrically more smooth p?da a would not
have been that difficult, for instance : praj?? vivekit?? y?ti)

Best wishes,
Jan





*Jan E.M. HOUBEN*

Directeur d??tudes

Sources et histoire de la tradition sanskrite

*?cole Pratique des Hautes ?tudes*

*Sciences historiques et philologiques *

54, rue Saint-Jacques

CS 20525 ? 75005 Paris

johannes.houben at ephe.sorbonne.fr

https://ephe-sorbonne.academia.edu/JanEMHouben

www.ephe.fr


On 15 September 2016 at 14:27, Ananya Vajpeyi <vajpeyi at csds.in> wrote:

> Dear Colleagues,
>
> The fall issue of World Policy Journal, titled "History's Ghosts", is just
> out.
>
> The issue published by Duke University Press journals, is now live online
> <http://www.worldpolicy.org/journal/fall2016>, and here is a direct link
> <http://wpj.dukejournals.org/content/33/3/45.full> to my article in it,
> titled "The Return of Sanskrit".
>
> The Return of Sanskrit
> How an Old Language Got Caught up in India?s New Culture Wars
>
> Indian scholar Ananya Vajpeyi examines the way the ruling Bharatiya Janata
> Party is using Sanskrit to advance a Hindu supremacist agenda. She argues
> that academics need to step out of the ivory tower and resist the
> government?s manipulation of this ancient language.
>
> ?Thanks and all best,
>
> Ananya Vajpeyi. ?
>
>
> --
>
> *Ananya Vajpeyi *
> *Fellow*
> *Centre for the Study of Developing Societies*
> *29 Rajpur Road, Civil Lines*
> *New Delhi 110054*
> *e: vajpeyi at csds.in <vajpeyi at csds.in>*
> *ext: 229*
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
> committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
> unsubscribe)
>


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From nmisra at gmail.com  Sun Sep 18 07:34:35 2016
From: nmisra at gmail.com (Nityanand Misra)
Date: Sun, 18 Sep 16 13:04:35 +0530
Subject: [INDOLOGY] New article on Sanskrit
In-Reply-To: <CAGCGLoAaznuq-tuwFzc+Uhzr_zpbbE33nrb0xOAkWFTCx9yLhA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAATk=rDfPDNRkFxvcXW=t-xgW=gf3DxSodjBddMK6efumv1A_A@mail.gmail.com>

On 18 September 2016 at 12:49, Jan E.M. Houben <jemhouben at gmail.com> wrote:

> Let us take one out of numerous important points in your argument:
> ?It's [Sanskrit is] part of everything that has to be fought over
> to protect the diversity and inclusiveness of India, its secular state and
> its
> egalitarian Constitution.?
> How to say this in Sanskrit?
> Several possibilities, here is my proposal:
> ???????? ?????? ??????? ?????????????,
> ??????? ??????????-?????????-???????????? ? ???????????????????????? ?
> ??????????? ?
>
>
>
?????? The word ??? in the sense of part/portion is masculine.


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From jemhouben at gmail.com  Sun Sep 18 07:48:10 2016
From: jemhouben at gmail.com (Jan E.M. Houben)
Date: Sun, 18 Sep 16 09:48:10 +0200
Subject: [INDOLOGY] New article on Sanskrit
In-Reply-To: <CAGCGLoAaznuq-tuwFzc+Uhzr_zpbbE33nrb0xOAkWFTCx9yLhA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAGCGLoA=jsuU+X=XWdezs=tToYnK4wXY=MPA4PLnVW1QrnU4ag@mail.gmail.com>

Yes, my proposed Sanskrit translation should read:

???????? ????? ??????? ?????????????,
??????? ??????????-?????????-???????????? ? ???????????????????????? ?
??????????? ?


One may doubt on how to interpret "secular state" : I took it in the sense
of laukika-bh?va or laukikatva, perhaps the intention was rather
laukika-r?jya.

Best wishes,
Jan


On 18 September 2016 at 09:19, Jan E.M. Houben <jemhouben at gmail.com> wrote:

> Dear Ananya,
> Thanks for sharing this valuable argument and position, which not only
> deserves close and critical attention of Sanskritists all over the world,
> it also deserves to be translated, at least for its main outlines, into
> Hindi, Urdu and especially Sanskrit, in order to reach those most directly
> concerned.
>
> Let us take one out of numerous important points in your argument:
> ?It's [Sanskrit is] part of everything that has to be fought over
> to protect the diversity and inclusiveness of India, its secular state and
> its
> egalitarian Constitution.?
> How to say this in Sanskrit?
> Several possibilities, here is my proposal:
> ???????? ?????? ??????? ?????????????,
> ??????? ??????????-?????????-???????????? ? ???????????????????????? ?
> ??????????? ?
>
> After all, why should we systematically refuse to speak the language of
> those about whom we are discussing ? Nevertheless, in Sanskrit studies this
> is exactly what has been going on since at least the beginning of the 19th
> century.
> And was it not precisely the exclusive focus on the archival function and
> the systematic neglect of the communicative function of Sanskrit which
> contributed significantly to its antiquarianization and to the complete
> marginalization of contemporaneous carriers of the Sanskrit tradition?
> Q: Was Sanskrit then a living language or means of communication when it
> was discovered by westerners ? R: A crucial personality is here Melputt?r
> N?r?ya?a Bha??a : on the one hand he argued, in the beginning of the 17th
> century, for a liberal approach to Sanskrit grammar and gives a P??inian
> grammar of ?living? Sanskrit
> -- see ?P??inian grammar of living Sanskrit?: www.academia.edu/28515426 --
> on the other hand he was aware of westerners who show both lack of respect
> and curiosity for Brahmins (tantudh?rin) and their teachings (C. Rajendran
> 2008: 64 referring to Prabandhama?jar? ed. N.P. Unni p. 295-296).
> In order to deal AT ONCE with the lack of awareness of Sanskrit and its
> precious heritage outside India (not counting the very small number of
> specialists dispersed over a few academic institutions) AND the danger of
> its one-sided excess within India, I propose to invoke the regulatory
> concept of ?ideodiversity? (??-???????, which, within cultural and
> intellectual evolution, is or could be what ?biodiversity? ???-??????? is
> within biological evolution):
> see my article ?La ideodiversidad como valor planetario?
> which recently appeared in: Eadem utraque Europa : revista de historia
> cultural e intelectual,
> A?o 12, No. 17, Agosto 2016, ISSN 1885-7221, pp. 11-42, trilingual summary
> at
> www.academia.edu/28565726
> The entire article can be briefly summarized in Sanskrit by referring to
> the view of Bhartrhari
> praj?? viveka? labhate bhinnair ?gama-dar?anai? |
> kiyad v? ?akyam unnetu? svatarkam anudh?vat? ||
> (view of Bhartrhari as formulated probably by his student: note, in
> addition to other arguments, the exceptional and unnecessary metrical
> clumsiness in p?da a ; to write a metrically more smooth p?da a would not
> have been that difficult, for instance : praj?? vivekit?? y?ti)
>
> Best wishes,
> Jan
>
>
>
>
>
> *Jan E.M. HOUBEN*
>
> Directeur d??tudes
>
> Sources et histoire de la tradition sanskrite
>
> *?cole Pratique des Hautes ?tudes*
>
> *Sciences historiques et philologiques *
>
> 54, rue Saint-Jacques
>
> CS 20525 ? 75005 Paris
>
> johannes.houben at ephe.sorbonne.fr
>
> https://ephe-sorbonne.academia.edu/JanEMHouben
>
> www.ephe.fr
>
>
> On 15 September 2016 at 14:27, Ananya Vajpeyi <vajpeyi at csds.in> wrote:
>
>> Dear Colleagues,
>>
>> The fall issue of World Policy Journal, titled "History's Ghosts", is
>> just out.
>>
>> The issue published by Duke University Press journals, is now live online
>> <http://www.worldpolicy.org/journal/fall2016>, and here is a direct link
>> <http://wpj.dukejournals.org/content/33/3/45.full> to my article in it,
>> titled "The Return of Sanskrit".
>>
>> The Return of Sanskrit
>> How an Old Language Got Caught up in India?s New Culture Wars
>>
>> Indian scholar Ananya Vajpeyi examines the way the ruling Bharatiya
>> Janata Party is using Sanskrit to advance a Hindu supremacist agenda. She
>> argues that academics need to step out of the ivory tower and resist the
>> government?s manipulation of this ancient language.
>>
>> ?Thanks and all best,
>>
>> Ananya Vajpeyi. ?
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> *Ananya Vajpeyi *
>> *Fellow*
>> *Centre for the Study of Developing Societies*
>> *29 Rajpur Road, Civil Lines*
>> *New Delhi 110054*
>> *e: vajpeyi at csds.in <vajpeyi at csds.in>*
>> *ext: 229*
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
>> committee)
>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
>> unsubscribe)
>>
>
>


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From karp at uw.edu.pl  Sun Sep 18 07:50:17 2016
From: karp at uw.edu.pl (Artur Karp)
Date: Sun, 18 Sep 16 09:50:17 +0200
Subject: [INDOLOGY] New article on Sanskrit
In-Reply-To: <CAATk=rDfPDNRkFxvcXW=t-xgW=gf3DxSodjBddMK6efumv1A_A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CALNcvFvC6ZJRd3Y3eqt-PVqaKPh5Hak_1nG9UKib9vyCn-ZWLA@mail.gmail.com>

> ?????? The word ??? in the sense of part/portion is masculine.

As an ignoramus, I have to write the following:

I love this sort of argument, & shall eagerly await its continuance.

Artur Karp (ret.) of Poland

PS. I believe it's possible to form simple Sanskrit sentences - without
going into all those cumbersome compounds.

2016-09-18 9:34 GMT+02:00 Nityanand Misra <nmisra at gmail.com>:

>
>
> On 18 September 2016 at 12:49, Jan E.M. Houben <jemhouben at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Let us take one out of numerous important points in your argument:
>> ?It's [Sanskrit is] part of everything that has to be fought over
>> to protect the diversity and inclusiveness of India, its secular state
>> and its
>> egalitarian Constitution.?
>> How to say this in Sanskrit?
>> Several possibilities, here is my proposal:
>> ???????? ?????? ??????? ?????????????,
>> ??????? ??????????-?????????-???????????? ? ???????????????????????? ?
>> ??????????? ?
>>
>>
>>
> ?????? The word ??? in the sense of part/portion is masculine.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
> committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
> unsubscribe)
>


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From nmisra at gmail.com  Sun Sep 18 07:51:32 2016
From: nmisra at gmail.com (Nityanand Misra)
Date: Sun, 18 Sep 16 13:21:32 +0530
Subject: [INDOLOGY] New article on Sanskrit
In-Reply-To: <HE1PR0801MB17728A534AFBA8F7D920605AA5F50@HE1PR0801MB1772.eurprd08.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <CAATk=rD9Vkn3+feQZ1Ds7fLpG020JnOEkuY4wRoxPZ04vXBFPA@mail.gmail.com>

I think Dr. Griffiths' misspelling of Dr. Vajpeyi's last name was
influenced by the way I spelt it. Both the spellings ?Vajpayee? and
?Vajpeyi? are used in English for the last name ??????? in India. The
former being used by Atal Bihari Vajpayee, ex-Prime Minister of India. It
was out of habit that I typed Vajpayee (being more used to this spelling)
instead of Vajpeyi. It was not deliberate, yet I apologize for the lack of
attention on my part.

It is obvious that Dr. Vajpeyi and I have different political leanings, but
that need not come in the way of a healthy discussion. It is unfortunate
that my questioning of Dr. Vajpeyi's claim is seen as offering apologetics
for the current government of India. Claims, political or not, are expected
to be critically examined and/or questioned.

However, I agree with Prof. Kapstein that political debates are best
avoided on this list.

On 18 September 2016 at 11:56, Arlo Griffiths <arlogriffiths at hotmail.com>
wrote:

> Dear Dr. Vajpeyi,
>
>
> I do apologize for having misspelled your name. Just to make this
> explicit, because it was not clear from your other message whether you have
> now classified me among those who offer "thinly-veiled apologetics" of the
> current government of India's policies: I did not write because I disagree
> with your political positions, but because I wondered whether it is helpful
> for your cause, and morally defensible, to be anything but critical of the
> Emergency. I simultaneously admit that I have no more than superficial
> knowledge of that period of Indian history, and will be happy to receive
> information, on or off list, that will allow me to nuance my perspective.
>
>
> Part of the problem in the increasingly polarized political scenes we see
> all over the world is that people can't even agree on what the facts are,
> and refuse to talk about them in a manner that is conducive to solving
> problems. As a generally silent observer of political debates on this
> list, I conclude by expressing the hope that you and Nityanand Misra (who
> has taken it upon himself to challenge you on most occasions when you write
> to the list), and more generally the two political camps that you two seem
> to represent, will start to attempt to find some common ground. At least on
> this list such an effort may actually be realistically achievable.
>
>
> With best wishes,
>
>
> Arlo Griffiths
>
> ?cole fran?aise d'Extr?me-Orient
>
>
>


-- 
Nity?nanda Mi?ra
http://nmisra.googlepages.com


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From nagarajpaturi at gmail.com  Sun Sep 18 08:23:44 2016
From: nagarajpaturi at gmail.com (Nagaraj Paturi)
Date: Sun, 18 Sep 16 13:53:44 +0530
Subject: [INDOLOGY] New article on Sanskrit
In-Reply-To: <CAGCGLoAaznuq-tuwFzc+Uhzr_zpbbE33nrb0xOAkWFTCx9yLhA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAJGj9eZ5iRqDqVgnbT3yPV_pERHD_-g5WuJhyvBt4_uQdhqddw@mail.gmail.com>

?????? ??????????? ?????? ?????????????????? ??? ???!

On Sun, Sep 18, 2016 at 12:49 PM, Jan E.M. Houben <jemhouben at gmail.com>
wrote:

> Dear Ananya,
> Thanks for sharing this valuable argument and position, which not only
> deserves close and critical attention of Sanskritists all over the world,
> it also deserves to be translated, at least for its main outlines, into
> Hindi, Urdu and especially Sanskrit, in order to reach those most directly
> concerned.
>
> Let us take one out of numerous important points in your argument:
> ?It's [Sanskrit is] part of everything that has to be fought over
> to protect the diversity and inclusiveness of India, its secular state and
> its
> egalitarian Constitution.?
> How to say this in Sanskrit?
> Several possibilities, here is my proposal:
> ???????? ?????? ??????? ?????????????,
> ??????? ??????????-?????????-???????????? ? ???????????????????????? ?
> ??????????? ?
>
> After all, why should we systematically refuse to speak the language of
> those about whom we are discussing ? Nevertheless, in Sanskrit studies this
> is exactly what has been going on since at least the beginning of the 19th
> century.
> And was it not precisely the exclusive focus on the archival function and
> the systematic neglect of the communicative function of Sanskrit which
> contributed significantly to its antiquarianization and to the complete
> marginalization of contemporaneous carriers of the Sanskrit tradition?
> Q: Was Sanskrit then a living language or means of communication when it
> was discovered by westerners ? R: A crucial personality is here Melputt?r
> N?r?ya?a Bha??a : on the one hand he argued, in the beginning of the 17th
> century, for a liberal approach to Sanskrit grammar and gives a P??inian
> grammar of ?living? Sanskrit
> -- see ?P??inian grammar of living Sanskrit?: www.academia.edu/28515426 --
> on the other hand he was aware of westerners who show both lack of respect
> and curiosity for Brahmins (tantudh?rin) and their teachings (C. Rajendran
> 2008: 64 referring to Prabandhama?jar? ed. N.P. Unni p. 295-296).
> In order to deal AT ONCE with the lack of awareness of Sanskrit and its
> precious heritage outside India (not counting the very small number of
> specialists dispersed over a few academic institutions) AND the danger of
> its one-sided excess within India, I propose to invoke the regulatory
> concept of ?ideodiversity? (??-???????, which, within cultural and
> intellectual evolution, is or could be what ?biodiversity? ???-??????? is
> within biological evolution):
> see my article ?La ideodiversidad como valor planetario?
> which recently appeared in: Eadem utraque Europa : revista de historia
> cultural e intelectual,
> A?o 12, No. 17, Agosto 2016, ISSN 1885-7221, pp. 11-42, trilingual summary
> at
> www.academia.edu/28565726
> The entire article can be briefly summarized in Sanskrit by referring to
> the view of Bhartrhari
> praj?? viveka? labhate bhinnair ?gama-dar?anai? |
> kiyad v? ?akyam unnetu? svatarkam anudh?vat? ||
> (view of Bhartrhari as formulated probably by his student: note, in
> addition to other arguments, the exceptional and unnecessary metrical
> clumsiness in p?da a ; to write a metrically more smooth p?da a would not
> have been that difficult, for instance : praj?? vivekit?? y?ti)
>
> Best wishes,
> Jan
>
>
>
>
>
> *Jan E.M. HOUBEN*
>
> Directeur d??tudes
>
> Sources et histoire de la tradition sanskrite
>
> *?cole Pratique des Hautes ?tudes*
>
> *Sciences historiques et philologiques *
>
> 54, rue Saint-Jacques
>
> CS 20525 ? 75005 Paris
>
> johannes.houben at ephe.sorbonne.fr
>
> https://ephe-sorbonne.academia.edu/JanEMHouben
>
> www.ephe.fr
>
>
> On 15 September 2016 at 14:27, Ananya Vajpeyi <vajpeyi at csds.in> wrote:
>
>> Dear Colleagues,
>>
>> The fall issue of World Policy Journal, titled "History's Ghosts", is
>> just out.
>>
>> The issue published by Duke University Press journals, is now live online
>> <http://www.worldpolicy.org/journal/fall2016>, and here is a direct link
>> <http://wpj.dukejournals.org/content/33/3/45.full> to my article in it,
>> titled "The Return of Sanskrit".
>>
>> The Return of Sanskrit
>> How an Old Language Got Caught up in India?s New Culture Wars
>>
>> Indian scholar Ananya Vajpeyi examines the way the ruling Bharatiya
>> Janata Party is using Sanskrit to advance a Hindu supremacist agenda. She
>> argues that academics need to step out of the ivory tower and resist the
>> government?s manipulation of this ancient language.
>>
>> ?Thanks and all best,
>>
>> Ananya Vajpeyi. ?
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> *Ananya Vajpeyi *
>> *Fellow*
>> *Centre for the Study of Developing Societies*
>> *29 Rajpur Road, Civil Lines*
>> *New Delhi 110054*
>> *e: vajpeyi at csds.in <vajpeyi at csds.in>*
>> *ext: 229*
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
>> committee)
>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
>> unsubscribe)
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
> committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
> unsubscribe)
>



-- 
Nagaraj Paturi

Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.

Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies

FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of  Liberal Education,

(Pune, Maharashtra, INDIA )


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From vajpeyi at csds.in  Sun Sep 18 08:23:55 2016
From: vajpeyi at csds.in (Ananya Vajpeyi)
Date: Sun, 18 Sep 16 13:53:55 +0530
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Sanskrit in our times
Message-ID: <CAHxuC0ToM8JULDJQ871iid0Sy9xe8x+FU-HOyuGsg7BM9LXihw@mail.gmail.com>

Thanks Arlo for your notes, on and off the Indology list.

If you don't mind too much, I'd say this business of the Emergency is a red
herring and we agree to set it aside for purposes of this discussion.

In preparation for the article you read in the World Policy Journal, and in
connection with a larger work I am hoping to undertake, I began looking at
the voluminous report of the first Sanskrit Commission under the leadership
of Suniti Kumar Chatterji (1957), and looking for the report of the second
Sanskrit Commission, prepared by a committee of experts set up under the
UPA government and scrapped by the current Modi government over the past
couple of years. In place of this second report, I came upon a "Vision
Document" for the future of Sanskrit education over 10 years, available on
the website of the Ministry of Human Resource Development at the time that
my article had to go to press.

Apart from the history of Sanskrit-related government policy, several other
factors were also at play while I worked on this piece over many months. I
taught a graduate class on "Religion, nation and democracy in modern India"
at a summer school (just concluded) and one of the texts my students and I
read carefully together was Savarkar's Hindutva, which lays out the
cartography of the Hindu Rashtra, including his highly problematic theories
about race, language, geography and religion.

At the same time, more or less, the controversial minister for Human
Resource Development, Smriti Irani, was replaced by Prakash Javadekar,
bringing to an abrupt halt a series of policy changes and political
decisions that she had been taking since the inauguration of the new
government, that did much damage to universities and higher education more
generally and threw Indian academia into a state of crisis (which still
continues).

I joined this list quite recently, but I am sure it has already seen an
extensive discussion of all that happened at the Indian Science Congress
and the World Sanskrit Conference, both of which took place in 2015 with a
BJP government in place. Apart from former HRD minister Smriti Irani,
External Affairs minister Sushma Swaraj, Minister for Culture Mahesh
Sharma, Dina Nath Batra (of Wendy Doniger notoriety) and others inside and
on the fringes of the Modi administration have repeatedly weighed in on the
place of Sanskrit in not just textbooks, degree programs and teaching
syllabi but also the larger cultural and political life of the nation.

The dilemma for Sanskritists, philologists, classicists, historians,
philosophers, scholars of whatever discipline who care about the quality
and future continuation of Sanskrit studies in India, is that on the one
hand both traditional and university-based Sanskrit programs of linguistic
training, textual and archival study, and literary and philosophical
inquiry have been in precipitous decline since Independence. For the most
part, it is secular, centrist and left-leaning state and national
governments in postcolonial India that have presided over this decline and
fall of what were once thriving and multifarious knowledge traditions.

On the other hand, when at last it seems like there might be some
willingness on the part of the government in power to invest in Sanskrit,
this promise of monetary support and institutional regeneration comes at a
heavy ideological cost, antagonising and alienating not just secular-minded
scholars, but also Muslims and Dalits, among others. Hindutva most directly
and most negatively impacts the discipline of History (which was the theme
of the fall issue of the WPJ), and Sanskrit is unfortunately exemplary in
the kind of manipulation it can and has been subjected to in the course of
what I and others have been calling India's "culture wars".

So we are in this peculiar situation where we want desperately for Sanskrit
to flourish, for it to have the strength and space to undertake fresh
thinking, self-correction and auto-critique, produce new texts, and show
all of the signs of vitality needed to keep any epistemological tradition
in business, but instead all we get is the worst sort of "Hinduization" of
the vast universe of Sanskrit textuality and the instrumental use of
Sanskrit to further communalise Indian history and exclude minorities from
all official narratives about our shared pasts. The damage is not just to
the facts of history, but also to the templates of plurality, inclusion and
coexistence that modern Indians have struggled hard to build and maintain
in the world's largest and most diverse democracy.

Most scholars I know -- and I include myself in this count -- would much
rather be left alone to read and write their books, think their thoughts,
teach their classes and engage with the ideas that most interest and excite
them. I would rather spend years in the library and classroom, than even a
moment in the vicious arena where ideas are now debated, populated as it is
by charlatans who are ignorant of the facts, armed with social media's
instruments of propaganda, misogyny and abuse, openly in service of
political forces and thoroughly innocent of intellectual motivations.

But this sort of sequestration is no longer possible. You can't retire with
the ancients, no matter how well you know how to read them. In fact, it is
precisely because you -- we -- people on this list -- know how to read,
that we must take up the responsibility of really questioning and
interpreting the texts to which we alone have access, and making their
treasures available to our students and a potentially vast reading public,
in order to deepen democracy and liberate our societies.

I began my article with JNU's Sanskrit department because it helps to
crystallise a number of intersecting concerns. That a heavily left-leaning
university should have a Sanskrit department was a good thing, in theory.
It should have balanced out JNU's own biases and made up for its
shortcomings. But it got off to a controversial start with the very
building in which it was housed, shaped, as I explain, like a Swastika (you
can look it up on Google Earth, it's pretty startling).

But then, things only got worse, in the sense that the intellectual culture
of the department became beholden to the suffocating binarism of secular
left versus Hindu right that is now writ large all across Indian academia.
So an opportunity was lost, from a scholarly and pedagogical perspective,
and this is happening in department after department at every Indian public
university. Instead of producing great researchers and great teachers,
Indian universities are producing half-baked ideologues.

In Sanskrit and Indology, practically all of the real hard work of critical
editing, translation, interpretation, teaching, publication is happening
overseas and not in India. And how could it? Politics and communal politics
especially has devastated our institutions. We have to deal with the
consequences of this fact. Avoidance is not an option.

Yours,

Ananya.




-- 

*Ananya Vajpeyi *
*Fellow*
*Centre for the Study of Developing Societies*
*29 Rajpur Road, Civil Lines*
*New Delhi 110054*
*e: vajpeyi at csds.in <vajpeyi at csds.in>*
*ext: 229*


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From hellwig7 at gmx.de  Sun Sep 18 09:09:51 2016
From: hellwig7 at gmx.de (hellwig7 at gmx.de)
Date: Sun, 18 Sep 16 11:09:51 +0200
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Verb-karaka resources
In-Reply-To: <mailman.49.1472745622.10473.indology_list.indology.info@list.indology.info>
Message-ID: <F5C0AD4322BF42528AEEF0B4BF75518D@OliverHP>

Dear colleagues,

are you aware of (structured) digital resources recording verbal roots 
**and** their typical kAraka relations? Most preferably based on Paninian 
grammar?

Any hint is highly appreciated.

Best, Oliver

---
Oliver Hellwig, University of D?sseldorf 






From karp at uw.edu.pl  Sun Sep 18 09:23:52 2016
From: karp at uw.edu.pl (Artur Karp)
Date: Sun, 18 Sep 16 11:23:52 +0200
Subject: [INDOLOGY] New article on Sanskrit
In-Reply-To: <CAJGj9eZ5iRqDqVgnbT3yPV_pERHD_-g5WuJhyvBt4_uQdhqddw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CALNcvFs7G5pkD82-UfBhxzeMLVxLDcPZThPg16222LjuXYJ3ag@mail.gmail.com>

?????? ??????????? ?????? ?????????????????? ??? ???!

-ai? or -air before bhinnais?

Have pity on me and remove my doubts,

Artur

PS. Being a Pole and a habitual user of an inflected language, I'd tend to
write:

bhinn*ai**?* ...dar?an*ai**?* ...bhinn*ai**?  .*..dar?an*ai**?*

In languages such as Polish (and other Slavic languages) the rules how
word-endings are to be pronounced when in contact with other words (-*air*,
*-air*,  *-ais*, *-air*) do not interfere with the rules of writing.

phonological vs. phonetic


2016-09-18 10:23 GMT+02:00 Nagaraj Paturi <nagarajpaturi at gmail.com>:

> ?????? ??????????? ?????? ?????????????????? ??? ???!
>
> On Sun, Sep 18, 2016 at 12:49 PM, Jan E.M. Houben <jemhouben at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Dear Ananya,
>> Thanks for sharing this valuable argument and position, which not only
>> deserves close and critical attention of Sanskritists all over the world,
>> it also deserves to be translated, at least for its main outlines, into
>> Hindi, Urdu and especially Sanskrit, in order to reach those most directly
>> concerned.
>>
>> Let us take one out of numerous important points in your argument:
>> ?It's [Sanskrit is] part of everything that has to be fought over
>> to protect the diversity and inclusiveness of India, its secular state
>> and its
>> egalitarian Constitution.?
>> How to say this in Sanskrit?
>> Several possibilities, here is my proposal:
>> ???????? ?????? ??????? ?????????????,
>> ??????? ??????????-?????????-???????????? ? ???????????????????????? ?
>> ??????????? ?
>>
>> After all, why should we systematically refuse to speak the language of
>> those about whom we are discussing ? Nevertheless, in Sanskrit studies this
>> is exactly what has been going on since at least the beginning of the 19th
>> century.
>> And was it not precisely the exclusive focus on the archival function and
>> the systematic neglect of the communicative function of Sanskrit which
>> contributed significantly to its antiquarianization and to the complete
>> marginalization of contemporaneous carriers of the Sanskrit tradition?
>> Q: Was Sanskrit then a living language or means of communication when it
>> was discovered by westerners ? R: A crucial personality is here Melputt?r
>> N?r?ya?a Bha??a : on the one hand he argued, in the beginning of the 17th
>> century, for a liberal approach to Sanskrit grammar and gives a P??inian
>> grammar of ?living? Sanskrit
>> -- see ?P??inian grammar of living Sanskrit?: www.academia.edu/28515426
>> --
>> on the other hand he was aware of westerners who show both lack of
>> respect and curiosity for Brahmins (tantudh?rin) and their teachings (C.
>> Rajendran 2008: 64 referring to Prabandhama?jar? ed. N.P. Unni p. 295-296).
>> In order to deal AT ONCE with the lack of awareness of Sanskrit and its
>> precious heritage outside India (not counting the very small number of
>> specialists dispersed over a few academic institutions) AND the danger of
>> its one-sided excess within India, I propose to invoke the regulatory
>> concept of ?ideodiversity? (??-???????, which, within cultural and
>> intellectual evolution, is or could be what ?biodiversity? ???-??????? is
>> within biological evolution):
>> see my article ?La ideodiversidad como valor planetario?
>> which recently appeared in: Eadem utraque Europa : revista de historia
>> cultural e intelectual,
>> A?o 12, No. 17, Agosto 2016, ISSN 1885-7221, pp. 11-42, trilingual
>> summary at
>> www.academia.edu/28565726
>> The entire article can be briefly summarized in Sanskrit by referring to
>> the view of Bhartrhari
>> praj?? viveka? labhate bhinnair ?gama-dar?anai? |
>> kiyad v? ?akyam unnetu? svatarkam anudh?vat? ||
>> (view of Bhartrhari as formulated probably by his student: note, in
>> addition to other arguments, the exceptional and unnecessary metrical
>> clumsiness in p?da a ; to write a metrically more smooth p?da a would not
>> have been that difficult, for instance : praj?? vivekit?? y?ti)
>>
>> Best wishes,
>> Jan
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *Jan E.M. HOUBEN*
>>
>> Directeur d??tudes
>>
>> Sources et histoire de la tradition sanskrite
>>
>> *?cole Pratique des Hautes ?tudes*
>>
>> *Sciences historiques et philologiques *
>>
>> 54, rue Saint-Jacques
>>
>> CS 20525 ? 75005 Paris
>>
>> johannes.houben at ephe.sorbonne.fr
>>
>> https://ephe-sorbonne.academia.edu/JanEMHouben
>>
>> www.ephe.fr
>>
>>
>> On 15 September 2016 at 14:27, Ananya Vajpeyi <vajpeyi at csds.in> wrote:
>>
>>> Dear Colleagues,
>>>
>>> The fall issue of World Policy Journal, titled "History's Ghosts", is
>>> just out.
>>>
>>> The issue published by Duke University Press journals, is now live
>>> online <http://www.worldpolicy.org/journal/fall2016>, and here is a direct
>>> link <http://wpj.dukejournals.org/content/33/3/45.full> to my article
>>> in it, titled "The Return of Sanskrit".
>>>
>>> The Return of Sanskrit
>>> How an Old Language Got Caught up in India?s New Culture Wars
>>>
>>> Indian scholar Ananya Vajpeyi examines the way the ruling Bharatiya
>>> Janata Party is using Sanskrit to advance a Hindu supremacist agenda. She
>>> argues that academics need to step out of the ivory tower and resist the
>>> government?s manipulation of this ancient language.
>>>
>>> ?Thanks and all best,
>>>
>>> Ananya Vajpeyi. ?
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>> *Ananya Vajpeyi *
>>> *Fellow*
>>> *Centre for the Study of Developing Societies*
>>> *29 Rajpur Road, Civil Lines*
>>> *New Delhi 110054*
>>> *e: vajpeyi at csds.in <vajpeyi at csds.in>*
>>> *ext: 229*
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
>>> committee)
>>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options
>>> or unsubscribe)
>>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
>> committee)
>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
>> unsubscribe)
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Nagaraj Paturi
>
> Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.
>
> Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies
>
> FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of  Liberal Education,
>
> (Pune, Maharashtra, INDIA )
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
> committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
> unsubscribe)
>


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From skarashima at gmail.com  Sun Sep 18 10:10:58 2016
From: skarashima at gmail.com (Seishi Karashima)
Date: Sun, 18 Sep 16 19:10:58 +0900
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Help with PDF files
Message-ID: <CAEd5L8j2UOqBvwm8FdWczgBF-Z6Vk2rnUxgdfw0hS6i5XO_76w@mail.gmail.com>

Dear colleagues,

  Could you help me to obtain PDF copies of the following book and article?


(1) John K. Locke, *Buddhist Monasteries of Nepal: A Survey of the Bahas
and Bahis of the Kathmandu Valley*, Kathmandu 1985: Sahayogi Press.


(2) P.V. Bapat, "Narayanabala," Studia Indologica Internationalia, I.
(Poona and Paris, 1954)


"Studia Indologica Internationalia" is an enigma. I have asked colleagues
in India, Paris etc., but nobody knows about it. However, it is quoted in
old articles.


Many thanks in advance,

Seishi Karashima


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From ute.huesken at ikos.uio.no  Sun Sep 18 10:25:42 2016
From: ute.huesken at ikos.uio.no (=?utf-8?Q?Ute_H=C3=BCsken?=)
Date: Sun, 18 Sep 16 10:25:42 +0000
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Help with PDF files
In-Reply-To: <CAEd5L8j2UOqBvwm8FdWczgBF-Z6Vk2rnUxgdfw0hS6i5XO_76w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1474194342652.6720@ikos.uio.no>

Dear colleagues

I would be very interested in Bapat's article on Narayanabala, too.

Best wishes

Ute Huesken


--

Ute H?sken, PhD
Professor, South Asia Studies (Sanskrit)
Department of Culture Studies and Oriental Languages
University of Oslo
Faculty of Humanities
P.O. Box 1010 Blindern
N-0315 Oslo
Norway

Room 387, P.A. Munch's Building
phone: +47 22 85 48 16
telefax: +47 22 85 48 28
ute.huesken at ikos.uio.no
http://www.hf.uio.no/ikos/personer/vit/uteh/index.html


________________________________
From: INDOLOGY <indology-bounces at list.indology.info> on behalf of Seishi Karashima <skarashima at gmail.com>
Sent: 18 September 2016 03:10
To: indology at list.indology.info
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Help with PDF files


Dear colleagues,

  Could you help me to obtain PDF copies of the following book and article?


(1) John K. Locke, Buddhist Monasteries of Nepal: A Survey of the Bahas and Bahis of the Kathmandu Valley, Kathmandu 1985: Sahayogi Press.


(2) P.V. Bapat, "Narayanabala," Studia Indologica Internationalia, I. (Poona and Paris, 1954)


"Studia Indologica Internationalia" is an enigma. I have asked colleagues in India, Paris etc., but nobody knows about it. However, it is quoted in old articles.


Many thanks in advance,

Seishi Karashima


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From mkapstei at uchicago.edu  Sun Sep 18 10:28:44 2016
From: mkapstei at uchicago.edu (Matthew Kapstein)
Date: Sun, 18 Sep 16 10:28:44 +0000
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Help with PDF files
In-Reply-To: <CAEd5L8j2UOqBvwm8FdWczgBF-Z6Vk2rnUxgdfw0hS6i5XO_76w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <82C3E42590D939418C74DD76B97DDED047BC67F0@xm-mbx-06-prod>

Dear Seishi,

There was a Studia Indologica published in Germany in 1955:
Studia<http://www.sudoc.abes.fr//DB=2.1/SET=2/TTL=5/CLK?IKT=1016&TRM=Studia+Indologica> <http://www.sudoc.abes.fr//DB=2.1/SET=2/TTL=5/CLK?IKT=1016&TRM=Studia+Indologica> Indologica<http://www.sudoc.abes.fr//DB=2.1/SET=2/TTL=5/CLK?IKT=1016&TRM=Studia+Indologica> : Festschrift f?r Willibald Kirfel zur Vollendung seines 70. Lebensjahres / herausgegeben von Otto Spies. Bonn 1955.

It may be a long shot, but if Bapat had a contribution therein and sent out offprints noting his affiliations, it may have become mis-referenced. I once gave the late Paul Ricoeur a review article I had written for
PEW and it was cited in one of his books with the name of the journal given as "Feature Book Review."
These things happen.

best,
Matthew

Matthew Kapstein
Directeur d'?tudes,
Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes

Numata Visiting Professor of Buddhist Studies,
The University of Chicago
________________________________



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From antonio.jardim at gmail.com  Sun Sep 18 10:47:04 2016
From: antonio.jardim at gmail.com (Antonio Ferreira-Jardim)
Date: Sun, 18 Sep 16 20:47:04 +1000
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Help with PDF files
In-Reply-To: <82C3E42590D939418C74DD76B97DDED047BC67F0@xm-mbx-06-prod>
Message-ID: <CAGDOqfqyGn7=tXEZ1gCCAE_oimySiexukWESWZbSUMDou-0kag@mail.gmail.com>

Dear Prof Karashima,

The issue of this missing journal has come up before. It seems it was never
published but some rare offprints of certain articles exist.

On the H-Buddhism list Prof Skilling requested this article back in 2011 -
I'm not sure if he ever successfully found it.

I think that Prof Maryla Falk was the editor and the collection was also
called "Samjna-Vyakaranam" - perhaps the full collection of her articles
can be found in her Nachlass via Prof Mejor in Krakow?

Hope some of that helps?

Kind regards,
Antonio Ferreira-Jardim
UQ

On 18 Sep 2016 8:29 PM, "Matthew Kapstein" <mkapstei at uchicago.edu> wrote:

> Dear Seishi,
>
> There was a Studia Indologica published in Germany in 1955:
> Studia
> <http://www.sudoc.abes.fr//DB=2.1/SET=2/TTL=5/CLK?IKT=1016&TRM=Studia+Indologica>
> <http://www.sudoc.abes.fr//DB=2.1/SET=2/TTL=5/CLK?IKT=1016&TRM=Studia+Indologica>
> Indologica
> <http://www.sudoc.abes.fr//DB=2.1/SET=2/TTL=5/CLK?IKT=1016&TRM=Studia+Indologica>
> : Festschrift f?r Willibald Kirfel zur Vollendung seines 70. Lebensjahres /
> herausgegeben von Otto Spies. Bonn 1955.
>
> It may be a long shot, but if Bapat had a contribution therein and sent
> out offprints noting his affiliations, it may have become mis-referenced. I
> once gave the late Paul Ricoeur a review article I had written for
> PEW and it was cited in one of his books with the name of the journal
> given as "Feature Book Review."
> These things happen.
>
> best,
> Matthew
>
> Matthew Kapstein
> Directeur d'?tudes,
> Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes
>
> Numata Visiting Professor of Buddhist Studies,
> The University of Chicago
> ------------------------------
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
> committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
> unsubscribe)
>


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From mkapstei at uchicago.edu  Sun Sep 18 10:51:50 2016
From: mkapstei at uchicago.edu (Matthew Kapstein)
Date: Sun, 18 Sep 16 10:51:50 +0000
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Help with PDF files
In-Reply-To: <CAGDOqfqyGn7=tXEZ1gCCAE_oimySiexukWESWZbSUMDou-0kag@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <82C3E42590D939418C74DD76B97DDED047BC6806@xm-mbx-06-prod>

It is indeed a mystery.
If it were published in Paris, one would expect it to appear in one or another of the French
catalogues -- I have just searched them and it is nowehere to be found.

Matthew Kapstein
Directeur d'?tudes,
Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes

Numata Visiting Professor of Buddhist Studies,
The University of Chicago
________________________________



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From skarashima at gmail.com  Sun Sep 18 12:58:58 2016
From: skarashima at gmail.com (Seishi Karashima)
Date: Sun, 18 Sep 16 21:58:58 +0900
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Help with PDF files
In-Reply-To: <CAGDOqfqyGn7=tXEZ1gCCAE_oimySiexukWESWZbSUMDou-0kag@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAEd5L8hJg0ePdZycQgk0-0EhBxXHZqmU9XgixiJs=GW=Sh=qbA@mail.gmail.com>

Dear colleagues,
Thank you very much for your reactions and information.
I had asked Dr. Peter Skilling before I posted this request. He could not
find the article at that time.
It seems that only offprints were made, as Gonda writes "only off-prints
published" in his *Old Indian*, Brill 1971, p. 182, fn. 5.
I shall ask Prof. Marek Mejor of Warsaw about the Nachlass, but if anybody
happens to have a copy of Bapat's article, please share it with me.
With best regards,
Seishi


2016-09-18 19:47 GMT+09:00 Antonio Ferreira-Jardim <antonio.jardim at gmail.com
>:

> Dear Prof Karashima,
>
> The issue of this missing journal has come up before. It seems it was
> never published but some rare offprints of certain articles exist.
>
> On the H-Buddhism list Prof Skilling requested this article back in 2011 -
> I'm not sure if he ever successfully found it.
>
> I think that Prof Maryla Falk was the editor and the collection was also
> called "Samjna-Vyakaranam" - perhaps the full collection of her articles
> can be found in her Nachlass via Prof Mejor in Krakow?
>
> Hope some of that helps?
>
> Kind regards,
> Antonio Ferreira-Jardim
> UQ
>
> On 18 Sep 2016 8:29 PM, "Matthew Kapstein" <mkapstei at uchicago.edu> wrote:
>
>> Dear Seishi,
>>
>> There was a Studia Indologica published in Germany in 1955:
>> Studia
>> <http://www.sudoc.abes.fr//DB=2.1/SET=2/TTL=5/CLK?IKT=1016&TRM=Studia+Indologica>
>> <http://www.sudoc.abes.fr//DB=2.1/SET=2/TTL=5/CLK?IKT=1016&TRM=Studia+Indologica>
>> Indologica
>> <http://www.sudoc.abes.fr//DB=2.1/SET=2/TTL=5/CLK?IKT=1016&TRM=Studia+Indologica>
>> : Festschrift f?r Willibald Kirfel zur Vollendung seines 70. Lebensjahres /
>> herausgegeben von Otto Spies. Bonn 1955.
>>
>> It may be a long shot, but if Bapat had a contribution therein and sent
>> out offprints noting his affiliations, it may have become mis-referenced. I
>> once gave the late Paul Ricoeur a review article I had written for
>> PEW and it was cited in one of his books with the name of the journal
>> given as "Feature Book Review."
>> These things happen.
>>
>> best,
>> Matthew
>>
>> Matthew Kapstein
>> Directeur d'?tudes,
>> Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes
>>
>> Numata Visiting Professor of Buddhist Studies,
>> The University of Chicago
>> ------------------------------
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
>> committee)
>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
>> unsubscribe)
>>
>


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From arlogriffiths at hotmail.com  Sun Sep 18 15:55:53 2016
From: arlogriffiths at hotmail.com (Arlo Griffiths)
Date: Sun, 18 Sep 16 15:55:53 +0000
Subject: [INDOLOGY] French textbooks in pdf
Message-ID: <HE1PR0801MB1772892E0CB61E2CF74C1F96A5F50@HE1PR0801MB1772.eurprd08.prod.outlook.com>

Dear colleagues,


On behalf of two students from Indonesia, who are preparing to come and study Sanskrit/Indology in France, having made a heroic effort to learn French, I am seeking pdfs of a number of textbooks.


Would anyone be able to help me get the following in pdf?


Biardeau, Madeleine. 1995. L'hindouisme: anthropologie d'une civilisation. Paris: Flammarion.

Filliozat, Pierre-Sylvain. 1992. Le sanskrit. Paris: Presses universitaires de France.

Meyer, ?ric. 2007. Une histoire de l'Inde: les Indiens face ? leur pass?. Paris: A. Michel.


Many thanks. Other textbooks of this kind, notably on Buddhism, are also welcome.


Merci.


Arlo Griffiths

?cole fran?aise d'Extr?me-Orient








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From ambapradeep at gmail.com  Sun Sep 18 16:10:15 2016
From: ambapradeep at gmail.com (Amba Kulkarni)
Date: Sun, 18 Sep 16 21:40:15 +0530
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Verb-karaka resources
In-Reply-To: <F5C0AD4322BF42528AEEF0B4BF75518D@OliverHP>
Message-ID: <CAFffahDP28rVSU6QdtXOuxMBfjVJRiQg_4w-bQ13Rfj2BZe2rA@mail.gmail.com>

Dear Oliver,

Dr. Usharani Sanka recently received a PhD degree for her thesis entitled

??????????????????? ????????????????? ????????????? ?????????????????
??????????????

I have included her in the cc. You may contact her.

Best,
Amba



On 18 September 2016 at 14:39, <hellwig7 at gmx.de> wrote:

> Dear colleagues,
>
> are you aware of (structured) digital resources recording verbal roots
> **and** their typical kAraka relations? Most preferably based on Paninian
> grammar?
>
> Any hint is highly appreciated.
>
> Best, Oliver
>
> ---
> Oliver Hellwig, University of D?sseldorf
>
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
> committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
> unsubscribe)
>



-- 

Fellow,
Indian Institute of Advanced Study,
Shimla

? ?? ?????: ?????? ????? ??????: ll
Let noble thoughts come to us from every side.
- Rig Veda, I-89-i.
Prof. (On leave)
Department of Sanskrit Studies
University of Hyderabad
Prof. C.R. Rao Road
Hyderabad-500 046

(91) 040 23133802(off)

http://sanskrit.uohyd.ac.in/scl <http://sanskrit.uohyd.ernet.in/scl>
http://sanskrit.uohyd.ac.in/faculty/amba
<http://sanskrit.uohyd.ernet.in/faculty/amba>


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From arlogriffiths at hotmail.com  Sun Sep 18 16:46:14 2016
From: arlogriffiths at hotmail.com (Arlo Griffiths)
Date: Sun, 18 Sep 16 16:46:14 +0000
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Sanskrit in our times
In-Reply-To: <CAHxuC0ToM8JULDJQ871iid0Sy9xe8x+FU-HOyuGsg7BM9LXihw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <HE1PR0801MB17725BB522959601F1D431D8A5F50@HE1PR0801MB1772.eurprd08.prod.outlook.com>

Dear Ananya,


Thank you for all this background.


I would hope that even those who have challenged you on previous occasions agree with a good part of what you write here, and if so that this agreement can become a basis for constructive action of the kind called 'bipartisan' in another political culture.


My modest contribution as a European Indologist, I believe, must continue to come in the form of working hard on all the tasks you mention in your last paragraph, notably in collaboration with Indian scholars ? and scholars of other countries in whose history Sanskrit culture has played an important role, and where I have had the privilege to live and work.


Minor point: I was not aware of any report of commission on Sanskrit presided over by S.K. Chatterji. Is a pdf available and can it be shared? I had heard of a reported of an apparently similarly named commission presided over by V. Raghavan in nearly the same year (see http://www.drvraghavancentre.com/publications.html, no. 51) although I have never seen that either. Could it actually be the same report?


Yours, with every good wish,

Arlo Griffiths

?cole fran?aise d'Extr?me-Orient




________________________________
From: Ananya Vajpeyi <vajpeyi at csds.in>
Sent: Sunday, September 18, 2016 8:23 AM
To: Indology; Arlo Griffiths
Subject: Sanskrit in our times


Thanks Arlo for your notes, on and off the Indology list.

If you don't mind too much, I'd say this business of the Emergency is a red herring and we agree to set it aside for purposes of this discussion.

In preparation for the article you read in the World Policy Journal, and in connection with a larger work I am hoping to undertake, I began looking at the voluminous report of the first Sanskrit Commission under the leadership of Suniti Kumar Chatterji (1957), and looking for the report of the second Sanskrit Commission, prepared by a committee of experts set up under the UPA government and scrapped by the current Modi government over the past couple of years. In place of this second report, I came upon a "Vision Document" for the future of Sanskrit education over 10 years, available on the website of the Ministry of Human Resource Development at the time that my article had to go to press.

Apart from the history of Sanskrit-related government policy, several other factors were also at play while I worked on this piece over many months. I taught a graduate class on "Religion, nation and democracy in modern India" at a summer school (just concluded) and one of the texts my students and I read carefully together was Savarkar's Hindutva, which lays out the cartography of the Hindu Rashtra, including his highly problematic theories about race, language, geography and religion.

At the same time, more or less, the controversial minister for Human Resource Development, Smriti Irani, was replaced by Prakash Javadekar, bringing to an abrupt halt a series of policy changes and political decisions that she had been taking since the inauguration of the new government, that did much damage to universities and higher education more generally and threw Indian academia into a state of crisis (which still continues).

I joined this list quite recently, but I am sure it has already seen an extensive discussion of all that happened at the Indian Science Congress and the World Sanskrit Conference, both of which took place in 2015 with a BJP government in place. Apart from former HRD minister Smriti Irani, External Affairs minister Sushma Swaraj, Minister for Culture Mahesh Sharma, Dina Nath Batra (of Wendy Doniger notoriety) and others inside and on the fringes of the Modi administration have repeatedly weighed in on the place of Sanskrit in not just textbooks, degree programs and teaching syllabi but also the larger cultural and political life of the nation.

The dilemma for Sanskritists, philologists, classicists, historians, philosophers, scholars of whatever discipline who care about the quality and future continuation of Sanskrit studies in India, is that on the one hand both traditional and university-based Sanskrit programs of linguistic training, textual and archival study, and literary and philosophical inquiry have been in precipitous decline since Independence. For the most part, it is secular, centrist and left-leaning state and national governments in postcolonial India that have presided over this decline and fall of what were once thriving and multifarious knowledge traditions.

On the other hand, when at last it seems like there might be some willingness on the part of the government in power to invest in Sanskrit, this promise of monetary support and institutional regeneration comes at a heavy ideological cost, antagonising and alienating not just secular-minded scholars, but also Muslims and Dalits, among others. Hindutva most directly and most negatively impacts the discipline of History (which was the theme of the fall issue of the WPJ), and Sanskrit is unfortunately exemplary in the kind of manipulation it can and has been subjected to in the course of what I and others have been calling India's "culture wars".

So we are in this peculiar situation where we want desperately for Sanskrit to flourish, for it to have the strength and space to undertake fresh thinking, self-correction and auto-critique, produce new texts, and show all of the signs of vitality needed to keep any epistemological tradition in business, but instead all we get is the worst sort of "Hinduization" of the vast universe of Sanskrit textuality and the instrumental use of Sanskrit to further communalise Indian history and exclude minorities from all official narratives about our shared pasts. The damage is not just to the facts of history, but also to the templates of plurality, inclusion and coexistence that modern Indians have struggled hard to build and maintain in the world's largest and most diverse democracy.

Most scholars I know -- and I include myself in this count -- would much rather be left alone to read and write their books, think their thoughts, teach their classes and engage with the ideas that most interest and excite them. I would rather spend years in the library and classroom, than even a moment in the vicious arena where ideas are now debated, populated as it is by charlatans who are ignorant of the facts, armed with social media's instruments of propaganda, misogyny and abuse, openly in service of political forces and thoroughly innocent of intellectual motivations.

But this sort of sequestration is no longer possible. You can't retire with the ancients, no matter how well you know how to read them. In fact, it is precisely because you -- we -- people on this list -- know how to read, that we must take up the responsibility of really questioning and interpreting the texts to which we alone have access, and making their treasures available to our students and a potentially vast reading public, in order to deepen democracy and liberate our societies.

I began my article with JNU's Sanskrit department because it helps to crystallise a number of intersecting concerns. That a heavily left-leaning university should have a Sanskrit department was a good thing, in theory. It should have balanced out JNU's own biases and made up for its shortcomings. But it got off to a controversial start with the very building in which it was housed, shaped, as I explain, like a Swastika (you can look it up on Google Earth, it's pretty startling).

But then, things only got worse, in the sense that the intellectual culture of the department became beholden to the suffocating binarism of secular left versus Hindu right that is now writ large all across Indian academia. So an opportunity was lost, from a scholarly and pedagogical perspective, and this is happening in department after department at every Indian public university. Instead of producing great researchers and great teachers, Indian universities are producing half-baked ideologues.

In Sanskrit and Indology, practically all of the real hard work of critical editing, translation, interpretation, teaching, publication is happening overseas and not in India. And how could it? Politics and communal politics especially has devastated our institutions. We have to deal with the consequences of this fact. Avoidance is not an option.

Yours,

Ananya.




--

Ananya Vajpeyi
Fellow
Centre for the Study of Developing Societies
29 Rajpur Road, Civil Lines
New Delhi 110054
e: vajpeyi at csds.in<mailto:vajpeyi at csds.in>
ext: 229


[https://docs.google.com/uc?export=download&id=0B0BiexZKrQe8OEU4VGpWU05CTk0&revid=0B0BiexZKrQe8dlBRTWdWWkZFaHdKV3Z0WWoxQnh6Sm1zYkp3PQ]



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From vajpeyi at csds.in  Sun Sep 18 17:04:17 2016
From: vajpeyi at csds.in (Ananya Vajpeyi)
Date: Sun, 18 Sep 16 22:34:17 +0530
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Sanskrit in our times
In-Reply-To: <HE1PR0801MB17725BB522959601F1D431D8A5F50@HE1PR0801MB1772.eurprd08.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <CAHxuC0Qgqt3iJKvtk_F_U+CoDOe8WCDCkELq8D-0R1KiMDBiKg@mail.gmail.com>

Try these links, Arlo:

https://www.scribd.com/doc/106367408/Report-of-the-Sanskrit-Commission-1956-1957-Complete

http://www.teindia.nic.in/mhrd/50yrsedu/u/45/3Z/453Z0101.htm

http://mhrd.gov.in/sites/upload_files/mhrd/files/Report-CVRM.pdf

http://www.newsgram.com/hrd-ministry-rejects-sanskrit-commissions-report/

http://www.dnaindia.com/india/report-de-saffronise-sanskrit-before-pitching-it-to-world-panel-2112428

Best,

Ananya.





On Sun, Sep 18, 2016 at 10:16 PM, Arlo Griffiths <arlogriffiths at hotmail.com>
wrote:

> Dear Ananya,
>
>
> Thank you for all this background.
>
>
> I would hope that even those who have challenged you on previous occasions
> agree with a good part of what you write here, and if so that this
> agreement can become a basis for constructive action of the kind called
> 'bipartisan' in another political culture.
>
>
> My modest contribution as a European Indologist, I believe, must continue
> to come in the form of working hard on all the tasks you mention in your
> last paragraph, notably in collaboration with Indian scholars ? and
> scholars of other countries in whose history Sanskrit culture has played an
> important role, and where I have had the privilege to live and work.
>
>
> Minor point: I was not aware of any report of commission on Sanskrit
> presided over by S.K. Chatterji. Is a pdf available and can it be shared? I
> had heard of a reported of an apparently similarly named commission
> presided over by V. Raghavan in nearly the same year (see
> http://www.drvraghavancentre.com/publications.html, no. 51) although I
> have never seen that either. Could it actually be the same report?
>
>
> Yours, with every good wish,
>
>
> Arlo Griffiths
>
> ?cole fran?aise d'Extr?me-Orient
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
> *From:* Ananya Vajpeyi <vajpeyi at csds.in>
> *Sent:* Sunday, September 18, 2016 8:23 AM
> *To:* Indology; Arlo Griffiths
> *Subject:* Sanskrit in our times
>
>
> Thanks Arlo for your notes, on and off the Indology list.
>
> If you don't mind too much, I'd say this business of the Emergency is a
> red herring and we agree to set it aside for purposes of this discussion.
>
> In preparation for the article you read in the World Policy Journal, and
> in connection with a larger work I am hoping to undertake, I began looking
> at the voluminous report of the first Sanskrit Commission under the
> leadership of Suniti Kumar Chatterji (1957), and looking for the report of
> the second Sanskrit Commission, prepared by a committee of experts set up
> under the UPA government and scrapped by the current Modi government over
> the past couple of years. In place of this second report, I came upon a
> "Vision Document" for the future of Sanskrit education over 10 years,
> available on the website of the Ministry of Human Resource Development at
> the time that my article had to go to press.
>
> Apart from the history of Sanskrit-related government policy, several
> other factors were also at play while I worked on this piece over many
> months. I taught a graduate class on "Religion, nation and democracy in
> modern India" at a summer school (just concluded) and one of the texts my
> students and I read carefully together was Savarkar's Hindutva, which lays
> out the cartography of the Hindu Rashtra, including his highly problematic
> theories about race, language, geography and religion.
>
> At the same time, more or less, the controversial minister for Human
> Resource Development, Smriti Irani, was replaced by Prakash Javadekar,
> bringing to an abrupt halt a series of policy changes and political
> decisions that she had been taking since the inauguration of the new
> government, that did much damage to universities and higher education more
> generally and threw Indian academia into a state of crisis (which still
> continues).
>
> I joined this list quite recently, but I am sure it has already seen an
> extensive discussion of all that happened at the Indian Science Congress
> and the World Sanskrit Conference, both of which took place in 2015 with a
> BJP government in place. Apart from former HRD minister Smriti Irani,
> External Affairs minister Sushma Swaraj, Minister for Culture Mahesh
> Sharma, Dina Nath Batra (of Wendy Doniger notoriety) and others inside and
> on the fringes of the Modi administration have repeatedly weighed in on the
> place of Sanskrit in not just textbooks, degree programs and teaching
> syllabi but also the larger cultural and political life of the nation.
>
> The dilemma for Sanskritists, philologists, classicists, historians,
> philosophers, scholars of whatever discipline who care about the quality
> and future continuation of Sanskrit studies in India, is that on the one
> hand both traditional and university-based Sanskrit programs of linguistic
> training, textual and archival study, and literary and philosophical
> inquiry have been in precipitous decline since Independence. For the most
> part, it is secular, centrist and left-leaning state and national
> governments in postcolonial India that have presided over this decline and
> fall of what were once thriving and multifarious knowledge traditions.
>
> On the other hand, when at last it seems like there might be some
> willingness on the part of the government in power to invest in Sanskrit,
> this promise of monetary support and institutional regeneration comes at a
> heavy ideological cost, antagonising and alienating not just secular-minded
> scholars, but also Muslims and Dalits, among others. Hindutva most directly
> and most negatively impacts the discipline of History (which was the theme
> of the fall issue of the WPJ), and Sanskrit is unfortunately exemplary in
> the kind of manipulation it can and has been subjected to in the course of
> what I and others have been calling India's "culture wars".
>
> So we are in this peculiar situation where we want desperately for
> Sanskrit to flourish, for it to have the strength and space to undertake
> fresh thinking, self-correction and auto-critique, produce new texts, and
> show all of the signs of vitality needed to keep any epistemological
> tradition in business, but instead all we get is the worst sort of
> "Hinduization" of the vast universe of Sanskrit textuality and the
> instrumental use of Sanskrit to further communalise Indian history and
> exclude minorities from all official narratives about our shared pasts. The
> damage is not just to the facts of history, but also to the templates of
> plurality, inclusion and coexistence that modern Indians have struggled
> hard to build and maintain in the world's largest and most diverse
> democracy.
>
> Most scholars I know -- and I include myself in this count -- would much
> rather be left alone to read and write their books, think their thoughts,
> teach their classes and engage with the ideas that most interest and excite
> them. I would rather spend years in the library and classroom, than even a
> moment in the vicious arena where ideas are now debated, populated as it is
> by charlatans who are ignorant of the facts, armed with social media's
> instruments of propaganda, misogyny and abuse, openly in service of
> political forces and thoroughly innocent of intellectual motivations.
>
> But this sort of sequestration is no longer possible. You can't retire
> with the ancients, no matter how well you know how to read them. In fact,
> it is precisely because you -- we -- people on this list -- know how to
> read, that we must take up the responsibility of really questioning and
> interpreting the texts to which we alone have access, and making their
> treasures available to our students and a potentially vast reading public,
> in order to deepen democracy and liberate our societies.
>
> I began my article with JNU's Sanskrit department because it helps to
> crystallise a number of intersecting concerns. That a heavily left-leaning
> university should have a Sanskrit department was a good thing, in theory.
> It should have balanced out JNU's own biases and made up for its
> shortcomings. But it got off to a controversial start with the very
> building in which it was housed, shaped, as I explain, like a Swastika (you
> can look it up on Google Earth, it's pretty startling).
>
> But then, things only got worse, in the sense that the intellectual
> culture of the department became beholden to the suffocating binarism of
> secular left versus Hindu right that is now writ large all across Indian
> academia. So an opportunity was lost, from a scholarly and pedagogical
> perspective, and this is happening in department after department at every
> Indian public university. Instead of producing great researchers and great
> teachers, Indian universities are producing half-baked ideologues.
>
> In Sanskrit and Indology, practically all of the real hard work of
> critical editing, translation, interpretation, teaching, publication is
> happening overseas and not in India. And how could it? Politics and
> communal politics especially has devastated our institutions. We have to
> deal with the consequences of this fact. Avoidance is not an option.
>
> Yours,
>
> Ananya.
>
>
>
>
> --
>
> *Ananya Vajpeyi *
> *Fellow*
> *Centre for the Study of Developing Societies*
> *29 Rajpur Road, Civil Lines*
> *New Delhi 110054*
> *e: vajpeyi at csds.in <vajpeyi at csds.in>*
> *ext: 229*
>
>
>
>
>



-- 

*Ananya Vajpeyi *
*Fellow*
*Centre for the Study of Developing Societies*
*29 Rajpur Road, Civil Lines*
*New Delhi 110054*
*e: vajpeyi at csds.in <vajpeyi at csds.in>*
*ext: 229*


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From nagarajpaturi at gmail.com  Sun Sep 18 18:25:07 2016
From: nagarajpaturi at gmail.com (Nagaraj Paturi)
Date: Sun, 18 Sep 16 23:55:07 +0530
Subject: [INDOLOGY] New article on Sanskrit
In-Reply-To: <CALNcvFs7G5pkD82-UfBhxzeMLVxLDcPZThPg16222LjuXYJ3ag@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAJGj9eb0gkXtrP_W7Ob53-dNjfg81bqL+UCkEsnF2gnvkq_WWg@mail.gmail.com>

Let us take the example of ???? ? and ???? ???? ?

For ease of communication, saying ???? ???? may seem better (than
?????????). But even for ease of communication, ???? ? does not look good (
?????? is the only way you can say that) .

But this question of ease of communication is only modern. ????????? is
natural.

Visandhika pronunciation turns out to be even 'wrong' in compound words
such as ?????????????? ( ???????? ?????? is not correct. )

On Sun, Sep 18, 2016 at 2:53 PM, Artur Karp <karp at uw.edu.pl> wrote:

> ?????? ??????????? ?????? ?????????????????? ??? ???!
>
> -ai? or -air before bhinnais?
>
> Have pity on me and remove my doubts,
>
> Artur
>
> PS. Being a Pole and a habitual user of an inflected language, I'd tend to
> write:
>
> bhinn*ai**?* ...dar?an*ai**?* ...bhinn*ai**?  .*..dar?an*ai**?*
>
> In languages such as Polish (and other Slavic languages) the rules how
> word-endings are to be pronounced when in contact with other words (-*air*,
> *-air*,  *-ais*, *-air*) do not interfere with the rules of writing.
>
> phonological vs. phonetic
>
>
> 2016-09-18 10:23 GMT+02:00 Nagaraj Paturi <nagarajpaturi at gmail.com>:
>
>> ?????? ??????????? ?????? ?????????????????? ??? ???!
>>
>> On Sun, Sep 18, 2016 at 12:49 PM, Jan E.M. Houben <jemhouben at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Dear Ananya,
>>> Thanks for sharing this valuable argument and position, which not only
>>> deserves close and critical attention of Sanskritists all over the world,
>>> it also deserves to be translated, at least for its main outlines, into
>>> Hindi, Urdu and especially Sanskrit, in order to reach those most directly
>>> concerned.
>>>
>>> Let us take one out of numerous important points in your argument:
>>> ?It's [Sanskrit is] part of everything that has to be fought over
>>> to protect the diversity and inclusiveness of India, its secular state
>>> and its
>>> egalitarian Constitution.?
>>> How to say this in Sanskrit?
>>> Several possibilities, here is my proposal:
>>> ???????? ?????? ??????? ?????????????,
>>> ??????? ??????????-?????????-???????????? ? ???????????????????????? ?
>>> ??????????? ?
>>>
>>> After all, why should we systematically refuse to speak the language of
>>> those about whom we are discussing ? Nevertheless, in Sanskrit studies this
>>> is exactly what has been going on since at least the beginning of the 19th
>>> century.
>>> And was it not precisely the exclusive focus on the archival function
>>> and the systematic neglect of the communicative function of Sanskrit which
>>> contributed significantly to its antiquarianization and to the complete
>>> marginalization of contemporaneous carriers of the Sanskrit tradition?
>>> Q: Was Sanskrit then a living language or means of communication when it
>>> was discovered by westerners ? R: A crucial personality is here Melputt?r
>>> N?r?ya?a Bha??a : on the one hand he argued, in the beginning of the 17th
>>> century, for a liberal approach to Sanskrit grammar and gives a P??inian
>>> grammar of ?living? Sanskrit
>>> -- see ?P??inian grammar of living Sanskrit?: www.academia.edu/28515426
>>> --
>>> on the other hand he was aware of westerners who show both lack of
>>> respect and curiosity for Brahmins (tantudh?rin) and their teachings (C.
>>> Rajendran 2008: 64 referring to Prabandhama?jar? ed. N.P. Unni p. 295-296).
>>> In order to deal AT ONCE with the lack of awareness of Sanskrit and its
>>> precious heritage outside India (not counting the very small number of
>>> specialists dispersed over a few academic institutions) AND the danger of
>>> its one-sided excess within India, I propose to invoke the regulatory
>>> concept of ?ideodiversity? (??-???????, which, within cultural and
>>> intellectual evolution, is or could be what ?biodiversity? ???-??????? is
>>> within biological evolution):
>>> see my article ?La ideodiversidad como valor planetario?
>>> which recently appeared in: Eadem utraque Europa : revista de historia
>>> cultural e intelectual,
>>> A?o 12, No. 17, Agosto 2016, ISSN 1885-7221, pp. 11-42, trilingual
>>> summary at
>>> www.academia.edu/28565726
>>> The entire article can be briefly summarized in Sanskrit by referring to
>>> the view of Bhartrhari
>>> praj?? viveka? labhate bhinnair ?gama-dar?anai? |
>>> kiyad v? ?akyam unnetu? svatarkam anudh?vat? ||
>>> (view of Bhartrhari as formulated probably by his student: note, in
>>> addition to other arguments, the exceptional and unnecessary metrical
>>> clumsiness in p?da a ; to write a metrically more smooth p?da a would not
>>> have been that difficult, for instance : praj?? vivekit?? y?ti)
>>>
>>> Best wishes,
>>> Jan
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *Jan E.M. HOUBEN*
>>>
>>> Directeur d??tudes
>>>
>>> Sources et histoire de la tradition sanskrite
>>>
>>> *?cole Pratique des Hautes ?tudes*
>>>
>>> *Sciences historiques et philologiques *
>>>
>>> 54, rue Saint-Jacques
>>>
>>> CS 20525 ? 75005 Paris
>>>
>>> johannes.houben at ephe.sorbonne.fr
>>>
>>> https://ephe-sorbonne.academia.edu/JanEMHouben
>>>
>>> www.ephe.fr
>>>
>>>
>>> On 15 September 2016 at 14:27, Ananya Vajpeyi <vajpeyi at csds.in> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Dear Colleagues,
>>>>
>>>> The fall issue of World Policy Journal, titled "History's Ghosts", is
>>>> just out.
>>>>
>>>> The issue published by Duke University Press journals, is now live
>>>> online <http://www.worldpolicy.org/journal/fall2016>, and here is a direct
>>>> link <http://wpj.dukejournals.org/content/33/3/45.full> to my article
>>>> in it, titled "The Return of Sanskrit".
>>>>
>>>> The Return of Sanskrit
>>>> How an Old Language Got Caught up in India?s New Culture Wars
>>>>
>>>> Indian scholar Ananya Vajpeyi examines the way the ruling Bharatiya
>>>> Janata Party is using Sanskrit to advance a Hindu supremacist agenda. She
>>>> argues that academics need to step out of the ivory tower and resist the
>>>> government?s manipulation of this ancient language.
>>>>
>>>> ?Thanks and all best,
>>>>
>>>> Ananya Vajpeyi. ?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>>
>>>> *Ananya Vajpeyi *
>>>> *Fellow*
>>>> *Centre for the Study of Developing Societies*
>>>> *29 Rajpur Road, Civil Lines*
>>>> *New Delhi 110054*
>>>> *e: vajpeyi at csds.in <vajpeyi at csds.in>*
>>>> *ext: 229*
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>>>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>>>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
>>>> committee)
>>>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options
>>>> or unsubscribe)
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
>>> committee)
>>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options
>>> or unsubscribe)
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Nagaraj Paturi
>>
>> Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.
>>
>> Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies
>>
>> FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of  Liberal Education,
>>
>> (Pune, Maharashtra, INDIA )
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
>> committee)
>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
>> unsubscribe)
>>
>
>


-- 
Nagaraj Paturi

Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.

Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies

FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of  Liberal Education,

(Pune, Maharashtra, INDIA )


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From nagarajpaturi at gmail.com  Sun Sep 18 18:48:13 2016
From: nagarajpaturi at gmail.com (Nagaraj Paturi)
Date: Mon, 19 Sep 16 00:18:13 +0530
Subject: [INDOLOGY] New article on Sanskrit
In-Reply-To: <CAJGj9eb0gkXtrP_W7Ob53-dNjfg81bqL+UCkEsnF2gnvkq_WWg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAJGj9eYeCun88he8=N9YP7N_FS=96j-aCZ9uy+=ewz+r18CzaQ@mail.gmail.com>

Perhaps you have something like bon apr?s-midi   in mind, where words are
separated from each other in writing, but sandhi is applied during
pronunciation only. But in Sanskrit it does not work that way.

On Sun, Sep 18, 2016 at 11:55 PM, Nagaraj Paturi <nagarajpaturi at gmail.com>
wrote:

> Let us take the example of ???? ? and ???? ???? ?
>
> For ease of communication, saying ???? ???? may seem better (than
> ?????????). But even for ease of communication, ???? ? does not look good (
> ?????? is the only way you can say that) .
>
> But this question of ease of communication is only modern. ????????? is
> natural.
>
> Visandhika pronunciation turns out to be even 'wrong' in compound words
> such as ?????????????? ( ???????? ?????? is not correct. )
>
> On Sun, Sep 18, 2016 at 2:53 PM, Artur Karp <karp at uw.edu.pl> wrote:
>
>> ?????? ??????????? ?????? ?????????????????? ??? ???!
>>
>> -ai? or -air before bhinnais?
>>
>> Have pity on me and remove my doubts,
>>
>> Artur
>>
>> PS. Being a Pole and a habitual user of an inflected language, I'd tend
>> to write:
>>
>> bhinn*ai**?* ...dar?an*ai**?* ...bhinn*ai**?  .*..dar?an*ai**?*
>>
>> In languages such as Polish (and other Slavic languages) the rules how
>> word-endings are to be pronounced when in contact with other words (-
>> *air*, *-air*,  *-ais*, *-air*) do not interfere with the rules of
>> writing.
>>
>> phonological vs. phonetic
>>
>>
>> 2016-09-18 10:23 GMT+02:00 Nagaraj Paturi <nagarajpaturi at gmail.com>:
>>
>>> ?????? ??????????? ?????? ?????????????????? ??? ???!
>>>
>>> On Sun, Sep 18, 2016 at 12:49 PM, Jan E.M. Houben <jemhouben at gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Dear Ananya,
>>>> Thanks for sharing this valuable argument and position, which not only
>>>> deserves close and critical attention of Sanskritists all over the world,
>>>> it also deserves to be translated, at least for its main outlines, into
>>>> Hindi, Urdu and especially Sanskrit, in order to reach those most directly
>>>> concerned.
>>>>
>>>> Let us take one out of numerous important points in your argument:
>>>> ?It's [Sanskrit is] part of everything that has to be fought over
>>>> to protect the diversity and inclusiveness of India, its secular state
>>>> and its
>>>> egalitarian Constitution.?
>>>> How to say this in Sanskrit?
>>>> Several possibilities, here is my proposal:
>>>> ???????? ?????? ??????? ?????????????,
>>>> ??????? ??????????-?????????-???????????? ? ???????????????????????? ?
>>>> ??????????? ?
>>>>
>>>> After all, why should we systematically refuse to speak the language of
>>>> those about whom we are discussing ? Nevertheless, in Sanskrit studies this
>>>> is exactly what has been going on since at least the beginning of the 19th
>>>> century.
>>>> And was it not precisely the exclusive focus on the archival function
>>>> and the systematic neglect of the communicative function of Sanskrit which
>>>> contributed significantly to its antiquarianization and to the complete
>>>> marginalization of contemporaneous carriers of the Sanskrit tradition?
>>>> Q: Was Sanskrit then a living language or means of communication when
>>>> it was discovered by westerners ? R: A crucial personality is here
>>>> Melputt?r N?r?ya?a Bha??a : on the one hand he argued, in the beginning of
>>>> the 17th century, for a liberal approach to Sanskrit grammar and gives a
>>>> P??inian grammar of ?living? Sanskrit
>>>> -- see ?P??inian grammar of living Sanskrit?: www.academia.edu/28515426
>>>> --
>>>> on the other hand he was aware of westerners who show both lack of
>>>> respect and curiosity for Brahmins (tantudh?rin) and their teachings (C.
>>>> Rajendran 2008: 64 referring to Prabandhama?jar? ed. N.P. Unni p. 295-296).
>>>> In order to deal AT ONCE with the lack of awareness of Sanskrit and its
>>>> precious heritage outside India (not counting the very small number of
>>>> specialists dispersed over a few academic institutions) AND the danger of
>>>> its one-sided excess within India, I propose to invoke the regulatory
>>>> concept of ?ideodiversity? (??-???????, which, within cultural and
>>>> intellectual evolution, is or could be what ?biodiversity? ???-??????? is
>>>> within biological evolution):
>>>> see my article ?La ideodiversidad como valor planetario?
>>>> which recently appeared in: Eadem utraque Europa : revista de historia
>>>> cultural e intelectual,
>>>> A?o 12, No. 17, Agosto 2016, ISSN 1885-7221, pp. 11-42, trilingual
>>>> summary at
>>>> www.academia.edu/28565726
>>>> The entire article can be briefly summarized in Sanskrit by referring
>>>> to the view of Bhartrhari
>>>> praj?? viveka? labhate bhinnair ?gama-dar?anai? |
>>>> kiyad v? ?akyam unnetu? svatarkam anudh?vat? ||
>>>> (view of Bhartrhari as formulated probably by his student: note, in
>>>> addition to other arguments, the exceptional and unnecessary metrical
>>>> clumsiness in p?da a ; to write a metrically more smooth p?da a would not
>>>> have been that difficult, for instance : praj?? vivekit?? y?ti)
>>>>
>>>> Best wishes,
>>>> Jan
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> *Jan E.M. HOUBEN*
>>>>
>>>> Directeur d??tudes
>>>>
>>>> Sources et histoire de la tradition sanskrite
>>>>
>>>> *?cole Pratique des Hautes ?tudes*
>>>>
>>>> *Sciences historiques et philologiques *
>>>>
>>>> 54, rue Saint-Jacques
>>>>
>>>> CS 20525 ? 75005 Paris
>>>>
>>>> johannes.houben at ephe.sorbonne.fr
>>>>
>>>> https://ephe-sorbonne.academia.edu/JanEMHouben
>>>>
>>>> www.ephe.fr
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 15 September 2016 at 14:27, Ananya Vajpeyi <vajpeyi at csds.in> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Dear Colleagues,
>>>>>
>>>>> The fall issue of World Policy Journal, titled "History's Ghosts", is
>>>>> just out.
>>>>>
>>>>> The issue published by Duke University Press journals, is now live
>>>>> online <http://www.worldpolicy.org/journal/fall2016>, and here is a direct
>>>>> link <http://wpj.dukejournals.org/content/33/3/45.full> to my article
>>>>> in it, titled "The Return of Sanskrit".
>>>>>
>>>>> The Return of Sanskrit
>>>>> How an Old Language Got Caught up in India?s New Culture Wars
>>>>>
>>>>> Indian scholar Ananya Vajpeyi examines the way the ruling Bharatiya
>>>>> Janata Party is using Sanskrit to advance a Hindu supremacist agenda. She
>>>>> argues that academics need to step out of the ivory tower and resist the
>>>>> government?s manipulation of this ancient language.
>>>>>
>>>>> ?Thanks and all best,
>>>>>
>>>>> Ananya Vajpeyi. ?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>>
>>>>> *Ananya Vajpeyi *
>>>>> *Fellow*
>>>>> *Centre for the Study of Developing Societies*
>>>>> *29 Rajpur Road, Civil Lines*
>>>>> *New Delhi 110054*
>>>>> *e: vajpeyi at csds.in <vajpeyi at csds.in>*
>>>>> *ext: 229*
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>>>>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>>>>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
>>>>> committee)
>>>>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options
>>>>> or unsubscribe)
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>>>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>>>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
>>>> committee)
>>>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options
>>>> or unsubscribe)
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Nagaraj Paturi
>>>
>>> Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.
>>>
>>> Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies
>>>
>>> FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of  Liberal Education,
>>>
>>> (Pune, Maharashtra, INDIA )
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
>>> committee)
>>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options
>>> or unsubscribe)
>>>
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Nagaraj Paturi
>
> Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.
>
> Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies
>
> FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of  Liberal Education,
>
> (Pune, Maharashtra, INDIA )
>
>
>
>



-- 
Nagaraj Paturi

Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.

Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies

FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of  Liberal Education,

(Pune, Maharashtra, INDIA )


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From karp at uw.edu.pl  Sun Sep 18 20:41:06 2016
From: karp at uw.edu.pl (Artur Karp)
Date: Sun, 18 Sep 16 22:41:06 +0200
Subject: [INDOLOGY] New article on Sanskrit
In-Reply-To: <CAJGj9eYeCun88he8=N9YP7N_FS=96j-aCZ9uy+=ewz+r18CzaQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CALNcvFuTofxSTd_sObNi8z=0v8s8Zdk+G7PQBUT=gV7HPuyjxw@mail.gmail.com>

Nagaraj:

> But in Sanskrit it does not work that way.

If you'd want to revive Sanskrit as a spoken language, it would have to
work that way.

No sandhi in writing; absolutely minimal number of compounds.

2016-09-18 20:48 GMT+02:00 Nagaraj Paturi <nagarajpaturi at gmail.com>:

> Perhaps you have something like bon apr?s-midi   in mind, where words are
> separated from each other in writing, but sandhi is applied during
> pronunciation only. But in Sanskrit it does not work that way.
>
> On Sun, Sep 18, 2016 at 11:55 PM, Nagaraj Paturi <nagarajpaturi at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Let us take the example of ???? ? and ???? ???? ?
>>
>> For ease of communication, saying ???? ???? may seem better (than
>> ?????????). But even for ease of communication, ???? ? does not look good (
>> ?????? is the only way you can say that) .
>>
>> But this question of ease of communication is only modern. ????????? is
>> natural.
>>
>> Visandhika pronunciation turns out to be even 'wrong' in compound words
>> such as ?????????????? ( ???????? ?????? is not correct. )
>>
>> On Sun, Sep 18, 2016 at 2:53 PM, Artur Karp <karp at uw.edu.pl> wrote:
>>
>>> ?????? ??????????? ?????? ?????????????????? ??? ???!
>>>
>>> -ai? or -air before bhinnais?
>>>
>>> Have pity on me and remove my doubts,
>>>
>>> Artur
>>>
>>> PS. Being a Pole and a habitual user of an inflected language, I'd tend
>>> to write:
>>>
>>> bhinn*ai**?* ...dar?an*ai**?* ...bhinn*ai**?  .*..dar?an*ai**?*
>>>
>>> In languages such as Polish (and other Slavic languages) the rules how
>>> word-endings are to be pronounced when in contact with other words (-
>>> *air*, *-air*,  *-ais*, *-air*) do not interfere with the rules of
>>> writing.
>>>
>>> phonological vs. phonetic
>>>
>>>
>>> 2016-09-18 10:23 GMT+02:00 Nagaraj Paturi <nagarajpaturi at gmail.com>:
>>>
>>>> ?????? ??????????? ?????? ?????????????????? ??? ???!
>>>>
>>>> On Sun, Sep 18, 2016 at 12:49 PM, Jan E.M. Houben <jemhouben at gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Dear Ananya,
>>>>> Thanks for sharing this valuable argument and position, which not only
>>>>> deserves close and critical attention of Sanskritists all over the world,
>>>>> it also deserves to be translated, at least for its main outlines, into
>>>>> Hindi, Urdu and especially Sanskrit, in order to reach those most directly
>>>>> concerned.
>>>>>
>>>>> Let us take one out of numerous important points in your argument:
>>>>> ?It's [Sanskrit is] part of everything that has to be fought over
>>>>> to protect the diversity and inclusiveness of India, its secular state
>>>>> and its
>>>>> egalitarian Constitution.?
>>>>> How to say this in Sanskrit?
>>>>> Several possibilities, here is my proposal:
>>>>> ???????? ?????? ??????? ?????????????,
>>>>> ??????? ??????????-?????????-???????????? ? ????????????????????????
>>>>> ? ??????????? ?
>>>>>
>>>>> After all, why should we systematically refuse to speak the language
>>>>> of those about whom we are discussing ? Nevertheless, in Sanskrit studies
>>>>> this is exactly what has been going on since at least the beginning of the
>>>>> 19th century.
>>>>> And was it not precisely the exclusive focus on the archival function
>>>>> and the systematic neglect of the communicative function of Sanskrit which
>>>>> contributed significantly to its antiquarianization and to the complete
>>>>> marginalization of contemporaneous carriers of the Sanskrit tradition?
>>>>> Q: Was Sanskrit then a living language or means of communication when
>>>>> it was discovered by westerners ? R: A crucial personality is here
>>>>> Melputt?r N?r?ya?a Bha??a : on the one hand he argued, in the beginning of
>>>>> the 17th century, for a liberal approach to Sanskrit grammar and gives a
>>>>> P??inian grammar of ?living? Sanskrit
>>>>> -- see ?P??inian grammar of living Sanskrit?:
>>>>> www.academia.edu/28515426 --
>>>>> on the other hand he was aware of westerners who show both lack of
>>>>> respect and curiosity for Brahmins (tantudh?rin) and their teachings (C.
>>>>> Rajendran 2008: 64 referring to Prabandhama?jar? ed. N.P. Unni p. 295-296).
>>>>> In order to deal AT ONCE with the lack of awareness of Sanskrit and
>>>>> its precious heritage outside India (not counting the very small number of
>>>>> specialists dispersed over a few academic institutions) AND the danger of
>>>>> its one-sided excess within India, I propose to invoke the regulatory
>>>>> concept of ?ideodiversity? (??-???????, which, within cultural and
>>>>> intellectual evolution, is or could be what ?biodiversity? ???-??????? is
>>>>> within biological evolution):
>>>>> see my article ?La ideodiversidad como valor planetario?
>>>>> which recently appeared in: Eadem utraque Europa : revista de historia
>>>>> cultural e intelectual,
>>>>> A?o 12, No. 17, Agosto 2016, ISSN 1885-7221, pp. 11-42, trilingual
>>>>> summary at
>>>>> www.academia.edu/28565726
>>>>> The entire article can be briefly summarized in Sanskrit by referring
>>>>> to the view of Bhartrhari
>>>>> praj?? viveka? labhate bhinnair ?gama-dar?anai? |
>>>>> kiyad v? ?akyam unnetu? svatarkam anudh?vat? ||
>>>>> (view of Bhartrhari as formulated probably by his student: note, in
>>>>> addition to other arguments, the exceptional and unnecessary metrical
>>>>> clumsiness in p?da a ; to write a metrically more smooth p?da a would not
>>>>> have been that difficult, for instance : praj?? vivekit?? y?ti)
>>>>>
>>>>> Best wishes,
>>>>> Jan
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> *Jan E.M. HOUBEN*
>>>>>
>>>>> Directeur d??tudes
>>>>>
>>>>> Sources et histoire de la tradition sanskrite
>>>>>
>>>>> *?cole Pratique des Hautes ?tudes*
>>>>>
>>>>> *Sciences historiques et philologiques *
>>>>>
>>>>> 54, rue Saint-Jacques
>>>>>
>>>>> CS 20525 ? 75005 Paris
>>>>>
>>>>> johannes.houben at ephe.sorbonne.fr
>>>>>
>>>>> https://ephe-sorbonne.academia.edu/JanEMHouben
>>>>>
>>>>> www.ephe.fr
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On 15 September 2016 at 14:27, Ananya Vajpeyi <vajpeyi at csds.in> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Dear Colleagues,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The fall issue of World Policy Journal, titled "History's Ghosts", is
>>>>>> just out.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The issue published by Duke University Press journals, is now live
>>>>>> online <http://www.worldpolicy.org/journal/fall2016>, and here is a direct
>>>>>> link <http://wpj.dukejournals.org/content/33/3/45.full> to my
>>>>>> article in it, titled "The Return of Sanskrit".
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The Return of Sanskrit
>>>>>> How an Old Language Got Caught up in India?s New Culture Wars
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Indian scholar Ananya Vajpeyi examines the way the ruling Bharatiya
>>>>>> Janata Party is using Sanskrit to advance a Hindu supremacist agenda. She
>>>>>> argues that academics need to step out of the ivory tower and resist the
>>>>>> government?s manipulation of this ancient language.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ?Thanks and all best,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Ananya Vajpeyi. ?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>>
>>>>>> *Ananya Vajpeyi *
>>>>>> *Fellow*
>>>>>> *Centre for the Study of Developing Societies*
>>>>>> *29 Rajpur Road, Civil Lines*
>>>>>> *New Delhi 110054*
>>>>>> *e: vajpeyi at csds.in <vajpeyi at csds.in>*
>>>>>> *ext: 229*
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>>>>>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>>>>>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
>>>>>> committee)
>>>>>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list
>>>>>> options or unsubscribe)
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>>>>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>>>>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
>>>>> committee)
>>>>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options
>>>>> or unsubscribe)
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Nagaraj Paturi
>>>>
>>>> Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.
>>>>
>>>> Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies
>>>>
>>>> FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of  Liberal Education,
>>>>
>>>> (Pune, Maharashtra, INDIA )
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>>>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>>>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
>>>> committee)
>>>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options
>>>> or unsubscribe)
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Nagaraj Paturi
>>
>> Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.
>>
>> Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies
>>
>> FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of  Liberal Education,
>>
>> (Pune, Maharashtra, INDIA )
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Nagaraj Paturi
>
> Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.
>
> Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies
>
> FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of  Liberal Education,
>
> (Pune, Maharashtra, INDIA )
>
>
>
>


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From steiner at staff.uni-marburg.de  Sun Sep 18 22:09:16 2016
From: steiner at staff.uni-marburg.de (Roland Steiner)
Date: Mon, 19 Sep 16 00:09:16 +0200
Subject: [INDOLOGY] New article on Sanskrit
In-Reply-To: <CAGCGLoAaznuq-tuwFzc+Uhzr_zpbbE33nrb0xOAkWFTCx9yLhA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20160919000916.Horde.cdMNmXB4zJWSox0JJy1w5lm@home.staff.uni-marburg.de>


> The entire article can be briefly summarized in Sanskrit by  
> referring to the view of Bhartrhari
> praj?? viveka? labhate bhinnair ?gama-dar?anai? |
> kiyad v? ?akyam unnetu? svatarkam anudh?vat? ||
> (view of Bhartrhari as formulated probably by his student: note, in  
> addition to other arguments, the exceptional and unnecessary  
> metrical clumsiness in p?da a ;

It is not metrically clumsy; praj?? viveka? labhate forms a regular  
bha-vipul? (structure ra-bha with regard to syllables 2-7:  
long-short-long-long-short-long).

Best wishes,
Roland







From steiner at staff.uni-marburg.de  Sun Sep 18 22:20:45 2016
From: steiner at staff.uni-marburg.de (Roland Steiner)
Date: Mon, 19 Sep 16 00:20:45 +0200
Subject: [INDOLOGY] New article on Sanskrit
In-Reply-To: <20160919000916.Horde.cdMNmXB4zJWSox0JJy1w5lm@home.staff.uni-marburg.de>
Message-ID: <20160919002045.Horde.5pD5N1mbFgvYwq-VicOe_9C@home.staff.uni-marburg.de>

Sorry for the obvious mistake in my previous message: Please read  
"long-short-long-long-short-short" instead of  
"long-short-long-long-short-long". The corrected message runs:

> The entire article can be briefly summarized in Sanskrit by  
> referring to the view of Bhartrhari
> praj?? viveka? labhate bhinnair ?gama-dar?anai? |
> kiyad v? ?akyam unnetu? svatarkam anudh?vat? ||
> (view of Bhartrhari as formulated probably by his student: note, in  
> addition to other arguments, the exceptional and unnecessary  
> metrical clumsiness in p?da a ;

It is not metrically clumsy; praj?? viveka? labhate forms a regular  
bha-vipul? (structure ra-bha with regard to syllables 2-7:  
long-short-long-long-short-short).

Best wishes,
Roland Steiner






From hspier.muktabodha at gmail.com  Mon Sep 19 00:06:10 2016
From: hspier.muktabodha at gmail.com (Harry Spier)
Date: Sun, 18 Sep 16 20:06:10 -0400
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Article by Gonda
Message-ID: <CAPW7aQHbFAmQFpXaEicxUc2_zys91SGG2wrG98o9BS7S7WMJRA@mail.gmail.com>

Dear list members,

Does anyone have a pdf of the article by Gonda:
The Indian Matra, Oriens. Vol. 16, January pages 244-297

Thank you,
Harry Spier


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From hspier.muktabodha at gmail.com  Mon Sep 19 00:17:01 2016
From: hspier.muktabodha at gmail.com (Harry Spier)
Date: Sun, 18 Sep 16 20:17:01 -0400
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Article by Gonda
In-Reply-To: <CAPW7aQHbFAmQFpXaEicxUc2_zys91SGG2wrG98o9BS7S7WMJRA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAPW7aQGou2rad29mWcVYj=c7Q9A62L4T-JsBedFiL4xxX-FUMQ@mail.gmail.com>

Thank you to Tim Lubin and Andrew Ollett.

In less than 5 minutes I've gotten two copies.

Harry Spier

On Sun, Sep 18, 2016 at 8:06 PM, Harry Spier <hspier.muktabodha at gmail.com>
wrote:

> Dear list members,
>
> Does anyone have a pdf of the article by Gonda:
> The Indian Matra, Oriens. Vol. 16, January pages 244-297
>
> Thank you,
> Harry Spier
>


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From nagarajpaturi at gmail.com  Mon Sep 19 01:19:38 2016
From: nagarajpaturi at gmail.com (Nagaraj Paturi)
Date: Mon, 19 Sep 16 06:49:38 +0530
Subject: [INDOLOGY] New article on Sanskrit
In-Reply-To: <CALNcvFuTofxSTd_sObNi8z=0v8s8Zdk+G7PQBUT=gV7HPuyjxw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAJGj9eZoMgKrFka7r4JuNUy-wU8O5isr6RuB2CNT5P6Mui2nHw@mail.gmail.com>

Yes, some of the spoken Sanskrit activists believe in your approach.

But the traditional scholars among whom Sanskrit has been surviving as
spoken language through a paramparaa do not find problem with sandhis are
long compounds.

My observation is, even the new learners once they get the hang of it,
enjoy doing sandhis and using long compounds, using idiomatic ways such as
passive voice (in contrast to the preference for active voice in a fresh
learner), bahuvreehis etc.

If you see the language of the plays both in Prakrit and Sanskrit portions,
there is a balance. Sandhis are not broken. But too long compounds are
avoided.

On Mon, Sep 19, 2016 at 2:11 AM, Artur Karp <karp at uw.edu.pl> wrote:

> Nagaraj:
>
> > But in Sanskrit it does not work that way.
>
> If you'd want to revive Sanskrit as a spoken language, it would have to
> work that way.
>
> No sandhi in writing; absolutely minimal number of compounds.
>
> 2016-09-18 20:48 GMT+02:00 Nagaraj Paturi <nagarajpaturi at gmail.com>:
>
>> Perhaps you have something like bon apr?s-midi   in mind, where words
>> are separated from each other in writing, but sandhi is applied during
>> pronunciation only. But in Sanskrit it does not work that way.
>>
>> On Sun, Sep 18, 2016 at 11:55 PM, Nagaraj Paturi <nagarajpaturi at gmail.com
>> > wrote:
>>
>>> Let us take the example of ???? ? and ???? ???? ?
>>>
>>> For ease of communication, saying ???? ???? may seem better (than
>>> ?????????). But even for ease of communication, ???? ? does not look good (
>>> ?????? is the only way you can say that) .
>>>
>>> But this question of ease of communication is only modern. ????????? is
>>> natural.
>>>
>>> Visandhika pronunciation turns out to be even 'wrong' in compound words
>>> such as ?????????????? ( ???????? ?????? is not correct. )
>>>
>>> On Sun, Sep 18, 2016 at 2:53 PM, Artur Karp <karp at uw.edu.pl> wrote:
>>>
>>>> ?????? ??????????? ?????? ?????????????????? ??? ???!
>>>>
>>>> -ai? or -air before bhinnais?
>>>>
>>>> Have pity on me and remove my doubts,
>>>>
>>>> Artur
>>>>
>>>> PS. Being a Pole and a habitual user of an inflected language, I'd tend
>>>> to write:
>>>>
>>>> bhinn*ai**?* ...dar?an*ai**?* ...bhinn*ai**?  .*..dar?an*ai**?*
>>>>
>>>> In languages such as Polish (and other Slavic languages) the rules how
>>>> word-endings are to be pronounced when in contact with other words (-
>>>> *air*, *-air*,  *-ais*, *-air*) do not interfere with the rules of
>>>> writing.
>>>>
>>>> phonological vs. phonetic
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 2016-09-18 10:23 GMT+02:00 Nagaraj Paturi <nagarajpaturi at gmail.com>:
>>>>
>>>>> ?????? ??????????? ?????? ?????????????????? ??? ???!
>>>>>
>>>>> On Sun, Sep 18, 2016 at 12:49 PM, Jan E.M. Houben <jemhouben at gmail.com
>>>>> > wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Dear Ananya,
>>>>>> Thanks for sharing this valuable argument and position, which not
>>>>>> only deserves close and critical attention of Sanskritists all over the
>>>>>> world, it also deserves to be translated, at least for its main outlines,
>>>>>> into Hindi, Urdu and especially Sanskrit, in order to reach those most
>>>>>> directly concerned.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Let us take one out of numerous important points in your argument:
>>>>>> ?It's [Sanskrit is] part of everything that has to be fought over
>>>>>> to protect the diversity and inclusiveness of India, its secular
>>>>>> state and its
>>>>>> egalitarian Constitution.?
>>>>>> How to say this in Sanskrit?
>>>>>> Several possibilities, here is my proposal:
>>>>>> ???????? ?????? ??????? ?????????????,
>>>>>> ??????? ??????????-?????????-???????????? ? ????????????????????????
>>>>>> ? ??????????? ?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> After all, why should we systematically refuse to speak the language
>>>>>> of those about whom we are discussing ? Nevertheless, in Sanskrit studies
>>>>>> this is exactly what has been going on since at least the beginning of the
>>>>>> 19th century.
>>>>>> And was it not precisely the exclusive focus on the archival function
>>>>>> and the systematic neglect of the communicative function of Sanskrit which
>>>>>> contributed significantly to its antiquarianization and to the complete
>>>>>> marginalization of contemporaneous carriers of the Sanskrit tradition?
>>>>>> Q: Was Sanskrit then a living language or means of communication when
>>>>>> it was discovered by westerners ? R: A crucial personality is here
>>>>>> Melputt?r N?r?ya?a Bha??a : on the one hand he argued, in the beginning of
>>>>>> the 17th century, for a liberal approach to Sanskrit grammar and gives a
>>>>>> P??inian grammar of ?living? Sanskrit
>>>>>> -- see ?P??inian grammar of living Sanskrit?:
>>>>>> www.academia.edu/28515426 --
>>>>>> on the other hand he was aware of westerners who show both lack of
>>>>>> respect and curiosity for Brahmins (tantudh?rin) and their teachings (C.
>>>>>> Rajendran 2008: 64 referring to Prabandhama?jar? ed. N.P. Unni p. 295-296).
>>>>>> In order to deal AT ONCE with the lack of awareness of Sanskrit and
>>>>>> its precious heritage outside India (not counting the very small number of
>>>>>> specialists dispersed over a few academic institutions) AND the danger of
>>>>>> its one-sided excess within India, I propose to invoke the regulatory
>>>>>> concept of ?ideodiversity? (??-???????, which, within cultural and
>>>>>> intellectual evolution, is or could be what ?biodiversity? ???-??????? is
>>>>>> within biological evolution):
>>>>>> see my article ?La ideodiversidad como valor planetario?
>>>>>> which recently appeared in: Eadem utraque Europa : revista de
>>>>>> historia cultural e intelectual,
>>>>>> A?o 12, No. 17, Agosto 2016, ISSN 1885-7221, pp. 11-42, trilingual
>>>>>> summary at
>>>>>> www.academia.edu/28565726
>>>>>> The entire article can be briefly summarized in Sanskrit by referring
>>>>>> to the view of Bhartrhari
>>>>>> praj?? viveka? labhate bhinnair ?gama-dar?anai? |
>>>>>> kiyad v? ?akyam unnetu? svatarkam anudh?vat? ||
>>>>>> (view of Bhartrhari as formulated probably by his student: note, in
>>>>>> addition to other arguments, the exceptional and unnecessary metrical
>>>>>> clumsiness in p?da a ; to write a metrically more smooth p?da a would not
>>>>>> have been that difficult, for instance : praj?? vivekit?? y?ti)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Best wishes,
>>>>>> Jan
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> *Jan E.M. HOUBEN*
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Directeur d??tudes
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Sources et histoire de la tradition sanskrite
>>>>>>
>>>>>> *?cole Pratique des Hautes ?tudes*
>>>>>>
>>>>>> *Sciences historiques et philologiques *
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 54, rue Saint-Jacques
>>>>>>
>>>>>> CS 20525 ? 75005 Paris
>>>>>>
>>>>>> johannes.houben at ephe.sorbonne.fr
>>>>>>
>>>>>> https://ephe-sorbonne.academia.edu/JanEMHouben
>>>>>>
>>>>>> www.ephe.fr
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 15 September 2016 at 14:27, Ananya Vajpeyi <vajpeyi at csds.in>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Dear Colleagues,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The fall issue of World Policy Journal, titled "History's Ghosts",
>>>>>>> is just out.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The issue published by Duke University Press journals, is now live
>>>>>>> online <http://www.worldpolicy.org/journal/fall2016>, and here is a direct
>>>>>>> link <http://wpj.dukejournals.org/content/33/3/45.full> to my
>>>>>>> article in it, titled "The Return of Sanskrit".
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The Return of Sanskrit
>>>>>>> How an Old Language Got Caught up in India?s New Culture Wars
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Indian scholar Ananya Vajpeyi examines the way the ruling Bharatiya
>>>>>>> Janata Party is using Sanskrit to advance a Hindu supremacist agenda. She
>>>>>>> argues that academics need to step out of the ivory tower and resist the
>>>>>>> government?s manipulation of this ancient language.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ?Thanks and all best,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Ananya Vajpeyi. ?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> *Ananya Vajpeyi *
>>>>>>> *Fellow*
>>>>>>> *Centre for the Study of Developing Societies*
>>>>>>> *29 Rajpur Road, Civil Lines*
>>>>>>> *New Delhi 110054*
>>>>>>> *e: vajpeyi at csds.in <vajpeyi at csds.in>*
>>>>>>> *ext: 229*
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>>>>>>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>>>>>>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
>>>>>>> committee)
>>>>>>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list
>>>>>>> options or unsubscribe)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>>>>>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>>>>>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
>>>>>> committee)
>>>>>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list
>>>>>> options or unsubscribe)
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Nagaraj Paturi
>>>>>
>>>>> Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.
>>>>>
>>>>> Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies
>>>>>
>>>>> FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of  Liberal Education,
>>>>>
>>>>> (Pune, Maharashtra, INDIA )
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>>>>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>>>>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
>>>>> committee)
>>>>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options
>>>>> or unsubscribe)
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Nagaraj Paturi
>>>
>>> Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.
>>>
>>> Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies
>>>
>>> FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of  Liberal Education,
>>>
>>> (Pune, Maharashtra, INDIA )
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Nagaraj Paturi
>>
>> Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.
>>
>> Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies
>>
>> FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of  Liberal Education,
>>
>> (Pune, Maharashtra, INDIA )
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>


-- 
Nagaraj Paturi

Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.

Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies

FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of  Liberal Education,

(Pune, Maharashtra, INDIA )


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From nagarajpaturi at gmail.com  Mon Sep 19 01:22:26 2016
From: nagarajpaturi at gmail.com (Nagaraj Paturi)
Date: Mon, 19 Sep 16 06:52:26 +0530
Subject: [INDOLOGY] New article on Sanskrit
In-Reply-To: <CAJGj9eZoMgKrFka7r4JuNUy-wU8O5isr6RuB2CNT5P6Mui2nHw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAJGj9eZc+qWrgD=d0iiNL-JM0kD1W_EpwpFJajzYxoq0z=78kw@mail.gmail.com>

>
Correction: Please read
But the traditional scholars among whom Sanskrit has been surviving as
spoken language through a paramparaa do not find problem with *sandhis are
long compounds*.

as

But the traditional scholars among whom Sanskrit has been surviving as
spoken language through a paramparaa do not find problem with *sandhis or
long compounds*.

On Mon, Sep 19, 2016 at 6:49 AM, Nagaraj Paturi <nagarajpaturi at gmail.com>
wrote:

> Yes, some of the spoken Sanskrit activists believe in your approach.
>
> But the traditional scholars among whom Sanskrit has been surviving as
> spoken language through a paramparaa do not find problem with sandhis are
> long compounds.
>
> My observation is, even the new learners once they get the hang of it,
> enjoy doing sandhis and using long compounds, using idiomatic ways such as
> passive voice (in contrast to the preference for active voice in a fresh
> learner), bahuvreehis etc.
>
> If you see the language of the plays both in Prakrit and Sanskrit
> portions, there is a balance. Sandhis are not broken. But too long
> compounds are avoided.
>
> On Mon, Sep 19, 2016 at 2:11 AM, Artur Karp <karp at uw.edu.pl> wrote:
>
>> Nagaraj:
>>
>> > But in Sanskrit it does not work that way.
>>
>> If you'd want to revive Sanskrit as a spoken language, it would have to
>> work that way.
>>
>> No sandhi in writing; absolutely minimal number of compounds.
>>
>> 2016-09-18 20:48 GMT+02:00 Nagaraj Paturi <nagarajpaturi at gmail.com>:
>>
>>> Perhaps you have something like bon apr?s-midi   in mind, where words
>>> are separated from each other in writing, but sandhi is applied during
>>> pronunciation only. But in Sanskrit it does not work that way.
>>>
>>> On Sun, Sep 18, 2016 at 11:55 PM, Nagaraj Paturi <
>>> nagarajpaturi at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Let us take the example of ???? ? and ???? ???? ?
>>>>
>>>> For ease of communication, saying ???? ???? may seem better (than
>>>> ?????????). But even for ease of communication, ???? ? does not look good (
>>>> ?????? is the only way you can say that) .
>>>>
>>>> But this question of ease of communication is only modern. ????????? is
>>>> natural.
>>>>
>>>> Visandhika pronunciation turns out to be even 'wrong' in compound words
>>>> such as ?????????????? ( ???????? ?????? is not correct. )
>>>>
>>>> On Sun, Sep 18, 2016 at 2:53 PM, Artur Karp <karp at uw.edu.pl> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> ?????? ??????????? ?????? ?????????????????? ??? ???!
>>>>>
>>>>> -ai? or -air before bhinnais?
>>>>>
>>>>> Have pity on me and remove my doubts,
>>>>>
>>>>> Artur
>>>>>
>>>>> PS. Being a Pole and a habitual user of an inflected language, I'd
>>>>> tend to write:
>>>>>
>>>>> bhinn*ai**?* ...dar?an*ai**?* ...bhinn*ai**?  .*..dar?an*ai**?*
>>>>>
>>>>> In languages such as Polish (and other Slavic languages) the rules
>>>>> how word-endings are to be pronounced when in contact with other words (-
>>>>> *air*, *-air*,  *-ais*, *-air*) do not interfere with the rules of
>>>>> writing.
>>>>>
>>>>> phonological vs. phonetic
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> 2016-09-18 10:23 GMT+02:00 Nagaraj Paturi <nagarajpaturi at gmail.com>:
>>>>>
>>>>>> ?????? ??????????? ?????? ?????????????????? ??? ???!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Sun, Sep 18, 2016 at 12:49 PM, Jan E.M. Houben <
>>>>>> jemhouben at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Dear Ananya,
>>>>>>> Thanks for sharing this valuable argument and position, which not
>>>>>>> only deserves close and critical attention of Sanskritists all over the
>>>>>>> world, it also deserves to be translated, at least for its main outlines,
>>>>>>> into Hindi, Urdu and especially Sanskrit, in order to reach those most
>>>>>>> directly concerned.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Let us take one out of numerous important points in your argument:
>>>>>>> ?It's [Sanskrit is] part of everything that has to be fought over
>>>>>>> to protect the diversity and inclusiveness of India, its secular
>>>>>>> state and its
>>>>>>> egalitarian Constitution.?
>>>>>>> How to say this in Sanskrit?
>>>>>>> Several possibilities, here is my proposal:
>>>>>>> ???????? ?????? ??????? ?????????????,
>>>>>>> ??????? ??????????-?????????-???????????? ?
>>>>>>> ???????????????????????? ? ??????????? ?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> After all, why should we systematically refuse to speak the language
>>>>>>> of those about whom we are discussing ? Nevertheless, in Sanskrit studies
>>>>>>> this is exactly what has been going on since at least the beginning of the
>>>>>>> 19th century.
>>>>>>> And was it not precisely the exclusive focus on the archival
>>>>>>> function and the systematic neglect of the communicative function of
>>>>>>> Sanskrit which contributed significantly to its antiquarianization and to
>>>>>>> the complete marginalization of contemporaneous carriers of the Sanskrit
>>>>>>> tradition?
>>>>>>> Q: Was Sanskrit then a living language or means of communication
>>>>>>> when it was discovered by westerners ? R: A crucial personality is here
>>>>>>> Melputt?r N?r?ya?a Bha??a : on the one hand he argued, in the beginning of
>>>>>>> the 17th century, for a liberal approach to Sanskrit grammar and gives a
>>>>>>> P??inian grammar of ?living? Sanskrit
>>>>>>> -- see ?P??inian grammar of living Sanskrit?:
>>>>>>> www.academia.edu/28515426 --
>>>>>>> on the other hand he was aware of westerners who show both lack of
>>>>>>> respect and curiosity for Brahmins (tantudh?rin) and their teachings (C.
>>>>>>> Rajendran 2008: 64 referring to Prabandhama?jar? ed. N.P. Unni p. 295-296).
>>>>>>> In order to deal AT ONCE with the lack of awareness of Sanskrit and
>>>>>>> its precious heritage outside India (not counting the very small number of
>>>>>>> specialists dispersed over a few academic institutions) AND the danger of
>>>>>>> its one-sided excess within India, I propose to invoke the regulatory
>>>>>>> concept of ?ideodiversity? (??-???????, which, within cultural and
>>>>>>> intellectual evolution, is or could be what ?biodiversity? ???-??????? is
>>>>>>> within biological evolution):
>>>>>>> see my article ?La ideodiversidad como valor planetario?
>>>>>>> which recently appeared in: Eadem utraque Europa : revista de
>>>>>>> historia cultural e intelectual,
>>>>>>> A?o 12, No. 17, Agosto 2016, ISSN 1885-7221, pp. 11-42, trilingual
>>>>>>> summary at
>>>>>>> www.academia.edu/28565726
>>>>>>> The entire article can be briefly summarized in Sanskrit by
>>>>>>> referring to the view of Bhartrhari
>>>>>>> praj?? viveka? labhate bhinnair ?gama-dar?anai? |
>>>>>>> kiyad v? ?akyam unnetu? svatarkam anudh?vat? ||
>>>>>>> (view of Bhartrhari as formulated probably by his student: note, in
>>>>>>> addition to other arguments, the exceptional and unnecessary metrical
>>>>>>> clumsiness in p?da a ; to write a metrically more smooth p?da a would not
>>>>>>> have been that difficult, for instance : praj?? vivekit?? y?ti)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Best wishes,
>>>>>>> Jan
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> *Jan E.M. HOUBEN*
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Directeur d??tudes
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Sources et histoire de la tradition sanskrite
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> *?cole Pratique des Hautes ?tudes*
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> *Sciences historiques et philologiques *
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 54, rue Saint-Jacques
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> CS 20525 ? 75005 Paris
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> johannes.houben at ephe.sorbonne.fr
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> https://ephe-sorbonne.academia.edu/JanEMHouben
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> www.ephe.fr
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 15 September 2016 at 14:27, Ananya Vajpeyi <vajpeyi at csds.in>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Dear Colleagues,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The fall issue of World Policy Journal, titled "History's Ghosts",
>>>>>>>> is just out.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The issue published by Duke University Press journals, is now live
>>>>>>>> online <http://www.worldpolicy.org/journal/fall2016>, and here is
>>>>>>>> a direct link <http://wpj.dukejournals.org/content/33/3/45.full> to
>>>>>>>> my article in it, titled "The Return of Sanskrit".
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The Return of Sanskrit
>>>>>>>> How an Old Language Got Caught up in India?s New Culture Wars
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Indian scholar Ananya Vajpeyi examines the way the ruling Bharatiya
>>>>>>>> Janata Party is using Sanskrit to advance a Hindu supremacist agenda. She
>>>>>>>> argues that academics need to step out of the ivory tower and resist the
>>>>>>>> government?s manipulation of this ancient language.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> ?Thanks and all best,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Ananya Vajpeyi. ?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> *Ananya Vajpeyi *
>>>>>>>> *Fellow*
>>>>>>>> *Centre for the Study of Developing Societies*
>>>>>>>> *29 Rajpur Road, Civil Lines*
>>>>>>>> *New Delhi 110054*
>>>>>>>> *e: vajpeyi at csds.in <vajpeyi at csds.in>*
>>>>>>>> *ext: 229*
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>>>>>>>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>>>>>>>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
>>>>>>>> committee)
>>>>>>>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list
>>>>>>>> options or unsubscribe)
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>>>>>>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>>>>>>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
>>>>>>> committee)
>>>>>>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list
>>>>>>> options or unsubscribe)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Nagaraj Paturi
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies
>>>>>>
>>>>>> FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of  Liberal Education,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> (Pune, Maharashtra, INDIA )
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>>>>>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>>>>>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
>>>>>> committee)
>>>>>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list
>>>>>> options or unsubscribe)
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Nagaraj Paturi
>>>>
>>>> Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.
>>>>
>>>> Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies
>>>>
>>>> FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of  Liberal Education,
>>>>
>>>> (Pune, Maharashtra, INDIA )
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Nagaraj Paturi
>>>
>>> Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.
>>>
>>> Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies
>>>
>>> FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of  Liberal Education,
>>>
>>> (Pune, Maharashtra, INDIA )
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Nagaraj Paturi
>
> Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.
>
> Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies
>
> FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of  Liberal Education,
>
> (Pune, Maharashtra, INDIA )
>
>
>
>



-- 
Nagaraj Paturi

Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.

Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies

FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of  Liberal Education,

(Pune, Maharashtra, INDIA )


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From david_buchta at brown.edu  Mon Sep 19 15:16:53 2016
From: david_buchta at brown.edu (Buchta, David)
Date: Mon, 19 Sep 16 11:16:53 -0400
Subject: =?utf-8?B?UmU6IFtJTkRPTE9HWV0g4KSc4KSo4KWN4KSu4KSk4KWLIOCknOCkvuCkr+CkpOClhyDgpLbgpYLgpKbgpY3gpLDgpIM=?=
In-Reply-To: <CAAiVBEU3WZ4OPj_5kqyLoBtCKkfUjEnPQg3QDQFf48709N0BDQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAP_RTBBGPhoBd3o7iwq1XLUEAg47pufSsJGxtYgCDup41XF5SQ@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Jesse,

A slight variant, "janman? j?yate ??dra?," is traced to the Skanda Pur??a,
N?gara-kha??a 239.31 on the website linked below. The author of the website
article includes a screenshot of a published edition with the text
highlighted, but does not give any information about the edition of the
text. Still, I hope it is a helpful lead.
http://www.harekrsna.com/sun/editorials/05-14/editorials11673.htm

Ted Benke also quotes the passage in his dissertation (p. 267, see link
below), saying that it is "attributed to Manu," citing Radhakrishnan.
http://repository.upenn.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1133&context=edissertations

Best,
David
--
David Buchta
Lecturer in Sanskrit
Department of Classics
Brown University

On Sun, Sep 11, 2016 at 4:49 PM, Jesse Knutson <jknutson at hawaii.edu> wrote:
>
> Dear Indologists and Friends, A friend and colleague, Ramdas Lamb, has
drawn my attention to, and asked me about the source, of a half-verse,
which he has heard quoted a lot in Ramanandi circles in India.  He is doing
some very interesting ethnographic work on the evolution of this order, and
told me about several inter-caste, Vedic ???????s they have recently
established, incorporating sometimes even dalits, women, and adivasis.  I
have a feeling one of you knows the source. Thanks for your time. ??????,J
>
> ?????? ????? ?????? ??????????????? ??????
>
>
> --
> Jesse Ross Knutson PhD
> Assistant Professor of Sanskrit and Bengali, Department of Indo-Pacific
Languages and Literatures
> University of Hawai'i at M?noa
> 461 Spalding
>
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
unsubscribe)


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From rrocher at sas.upenn.edu  Mon Sep 19 21:19:26 2016
From: rrocher at sas.upenn.edu (Rosane Rocher)
Date: Mon, 19 Sep 16 17:19:26 -0400
Subject: [INDOLOGY] just published
Message-ID: <1d9caaf1-4841-9450-ee0a-43bee20e3420@sas.upenn.edu>

Just published: /
/

/Vyavah?rasaukhya: The Treatise on Legal Procedure in the ?o?ar?nanda 
composed at the instance of ?o?aramalla during the Reign of Akbar/. 
Edited by Ludo Rocher. ('Alti Studi di Storia intellettuale e delle 
Religioni' Series). Florence: Societ? Editrice Fiorentina, 2016, xiv + 
261 pp. ISBN 978 88 6032 387 3. ?30,00.

Warm regards,

Rosane Rocher
Professor Emerita of South Asia Studies
University of Pennsylvania


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From jknutson at hawaii.edu  Mon Sep 19 21:25:19 2016
From: jknutson at hawaii.edu (Jesse Knutson)
Date: Mon, 19 Sep 16 11:25:19 -1000
Subject: =?utf-8?B?UmU6IFtJTkRPTE9HWV0g4KSc4KSo4KWN4KSu4KSk4KWLIOCknOCkvuCkr+CkpOClhyDgpLbgpYLgpKbgpY3gpLDgpIM=?=
In-Reply-To: <CAP_RTBBGPhoBd3o7iwq1XLUEAg47pufSsJGxtYgCDup41XF5SQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAAiVBEWqq5yJh-h-Bya4U=7Atp+CxZOdhkSD8kO1eWn5mf3zBw@mail.gmail.com>

Thanks David Buchta for your kind response. ????????? ?????--to misquote
K?lid?sa: ???? ????????? ????????,j

On Mon, Sep 19, 2016 at 5:16 AM, Buchta, David <david_buchta at brown.edu>
wrote:

> Hi Jesse,
>
> A slight variant, "janman? j?yate ??dra?," is traced to the Skanda Pur??a,
> N?gara-kha??a 239.31 on the website linked below. The author of the website
> article includes a screenshot of a published edition with the text
> highlighted, but does not give any information about the edition of the
> text. Still, I hope it is a helpful lead.
> http://www.harekrsna.com/sun/editorials/05-14/editorials11673.htm
>
> Ted Benke also quotes the passage in his dissertation (p. 267, see link
> below), saying that it is "attributed to Manu," citing Radhakrishnan.
> http://repository.upenn.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=
> 1133&context=edissertations
>
> Best,
> David
> --
> David Buchta
> Lecturer in Sanskrit
> Department of Classics
> Brown University
>
>
> On Sun, Sep 11, 2016 at 4:49 PM, Jesse Knutson <jknutson at hawaii.edu>
> wrote:
> >
> > Dear Indologists and Friends, A friend and colleague, Ramdas Lamb, has
> drawn my attention to, and asked me about the source, of a half-verse,
> which he has heard quoted a lot in Ramanandi circles in India.  He is doing
> some very interesting ethnographic work on the evolution of this order, and
> told me about several inter-caste, Vedic ???????s they have recently
> established, incorporating sometimes even dalits, women, and adivasis.  I
> have a feeling one of you knows the source. Thanks for your time. ??????,J
> >
> > ?????? ????? ?????? ??????????????? ??????
> >
> >
> > --
> > Jesse Ross Knutson PhD
> > Assistant Professor of Sanskrit and Bengali, Department of Indo-Pacific
> Languages and Literatures
> > University of Hawai'i at M?noa
> > 461 Spalding
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > INDOLOGY mailing list
> > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
> committee)
> > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options
> or unsubscribe)
>
>


-- 
Jesse Ross Knutson PhD
Assistant Professor of Sanskrit and Bengali, Department of Indo-Pacific
Languages and Literatures
University of Hawai'i at M?noa
461 Spalding


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From psdmccartney at gmail.com  Tue Sep 20 03:45:37 2016
From: psdmccartney at gmail.com (patrick mccartney)
Date: Tue, 20 Sep 16 13:15:37 +0930
Subject: =?utf-8?B?W0lORE9MT0dZXSBtxKttxIHhuYNzxIE=?=
Message-ID: <CAEzwJrD0NJ1aq7Y0Km_Sf=zj=TTUtcWRUa=3tYeuWEm1R538Ww@mail.gmail.com>

Dear Friends,

I find myself intrigued by the idea that there are people today compelled
to carry on the karmak???a rituals.

I read a brief passage that alludes to the m?m??s? thought-world as
providing textual evidence and injunctions for this practice of reenacting
scriptural commandments, which were originally meant for a group of people
in a different time and place. However, it only mentions m?m??s? and does
not mention any specific author or text.

I would like to read this text but, as I know very little about m?m??s? I
do not really know where to start. I thought I might find some help here in
locating the passages I seek.

Thank you for your help.


All the best,

Patrick McCartney, PhD
Fellow
School of Culture, History & Language
College of the Asia-Pacific
The Australian National University
Canberra, Australia, 0200


Skype - psdmccartney
Phone + Whatsapp:  +61 414 954 748
Twitter - @psdmccartney

academia <https://anu-au.academia.edu/patrickmccartney>

   -

Linkedin
<https://www.linkedin.com/profile/view?id=241756978&trk=nav_responsive_tab_profile>

#yogabodyANU2016 symposium
<http://chl.anu.edu.au/news-events/events/658/yoga-and-body-past-and-present-symposium?#tab>

<http://chl.anu.edu.au/news-events/events/658/yoga-and-body-past-and-present-symposium?#tab>

Ep1 - Imagining Sanskrit Land <https://youtu.be/jMi7tkPBbJ4>

Ep 2 - Total-am <https://youtu.be/7tAp8m9RHPU>

Ep 3 - Jalam ? Chillum <https://youtu.be/cLZeuCT_mwQ>

Ep 4 - It's Time to get Married
<https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_B3un7aHEAc>

A Day in our Ashram
<https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=ek+din+hamaare+ashram+mein>

Stop animation short film of Shakuntala
<https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LVqBD_2P4Pg>

Forced to Clean Human Waste <http://youtu.be/y3XfjbwqC_g>

One of my favourite song <http://trinityroots.bandcamp.com/track/all-we-be>s


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From jpo at austin.utexas.edu  Tue Sep 20 07:53:47 2016
From: jpo at austin.utexas.edu (Olivelle, J P)
Date: Tue, 20 Sep 16 07:53:47 +0000
Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_[INDOLOGY]_m=C4=ABm=C4=81=E1=B9=83s=C4=81?=
In-Reply-To: <CAEzwJrD0NJ1aq7Y0Km_Sf=zj=TTUtcWRUa=3tYeuWEm1R538Ww@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <74596473-11EB-439C-8A3C-F9C2AB6CFE0F@austin.utexas.edu>

Try, M?m????ny?yaprak??a edited and translated by Edgerton.



On Sep 19, 2016, at 10:45 PM, patrick mccartney <psdmccartney at gmail.com<mailto:psdmccartney at gmail.com>> wrote:

Dear Friends,

I find myself intrigued by the idea that there are people today compelled to carry on the karmak???a rituals.

I read a brief passage that alludes to the m?m??s? thought-world as providing textual evidence and injunctions for this practice of reenacting scriptural commandments, which were originally meant for a group of people in a different time and place. However, it only mentions m?m??s? and does not mention any specific author or text.

I would like to read this text but, as I know very little about m?m??s? I do not really know where to start. I thought I might find some help here in locating the passages I seek.

Thank you for your help.


All the best,

Patrick McCartney, PhD
Fellow
School of Culture, History & Language
College of the Asia-Pacific
The Australian National University
Canberra, Australia, 0200


Skype - psdmccartney
Phone + Whatsapp:  +61 414 954 748
Twitter - @psdmccartney

academia<https://anu-au.academia.edu/patrickmccartney>

  *

Linkedin<https://www.linkedin.com/profile/view?id=241756978&trk=nav_responsive_tab_profile>

#yogabodyANU2016 symposium<http://chl.anu.edu.au/news-events/events/658/yoga-and-body-past-and-present-symposium?#tab> <http://chl.anu.edu.au/news-events/events/658/yoga-and-body-past-and-present-symposium?#tab>

Ep1 - Imagining Sanskrit Land<https://youtu.be/jMi7tkPBbJ4>

Ep 2 - Total-am<https://youtu.be/7tAp8m9RHPU>

Ep 3 - Jalam ? Chillum<https://youtu.be/cLZeuCT_mwQ>

Ep 4 - It's Time to get Married<https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_B3un7aHEAc>

A Day in our Ashram<https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=ek+din+hamaare+ashram+mein>

Stop animation short film of Shakuntala <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LVqBD_2P4Pg>

Forced to Clean Human Waste<http://youtu.be/y3XfjbwqC_g>

One of my favourite song<http://trinityroots.bandcamp.com/track/all-we-be>s




_______________________________________________
INDOLOGY mailing list
INDOLOGY at list.indology.info<mailto:INDOLOGY at list.indology.info>
indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee)
http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe)



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From krishnaprasadah.g at gmail.com  Tue Sep 20 08:06:53 2016
From: krishnaprasadah.g at gmail.com (Krishnaprasad G)
Date: Tue, 20 Sep 16 13:36:53 +0530
Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_[INDOLOGY]_m=C4=ABm=C4=81=E1=B9=83s=C4=81?=
In-Reply-To: <CAEzwJrD0NJ1aq7Y0Km_Sf=zj=TTUtcWRUa=3tYeuWEm1R538Ww@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAODNnZg5+tPc=UvMk892jPK6WhOVBziAHz4KOTg7=Q=81JM7kw@mail.gmail.com>

For beginners Arthasangraha is better. Especially the translation and notes
by A.B Gajendragadkar and R.D Karmarmakar is very lucid and clear

On Sep 20, 2016 9:17 AM, "patrick mccartney" <psdmccartney at gmail.com> wrote:

> Dear Friends,
>
> I find myself intrigued by the idea that there are people today compelled
> to carry on the karmak???a rituals.
>
> I read a brief passage that alludes to the m?m??s? thought-world as
> providing textual evidence and injunctions for this practice of reenacting
> scriptural commandments, which were originally meant for a group of people
> in a different time and place. However, it only mentions m?m??s? and does
> not mention any specific author or text.
>
> I would like to read this text but, as I know very little about m?m??s? I
> do not really know where to start. I thought I might find some help here in
> locating the passages I seek.
>
> Thank you for your help.
>
>
> All the best,
>
> Patrick McCartney, PhD
> Fellow
> School of Culture, History & Language
> College of the Asia-Pacific
> The Australian National University
> Canberra, Australia, 0200
>
>
> Skype - psdmccartney
> Phone + Whatsapp:  +61 414 954 748
> Twitter - @psdmccartney
>
> academia <https://anu-au.academia.edu/patrickmccartney>
>
>    -
>
> Linkedin
> <https://www.linkedin.com/profile/view?id=241756978&trk=nav_responsive_tab_profile>
>
> #yogabodyANU2016 symposium
> <http://chl.anu.edu.au/news-events/events/658/yoga-and-body-past-and-present-symposium?#tab>
>
> <http://chl.anu.edu.au/news-events/events/658/yoga-and-body-past-and-present-symposium?#tab>
>
> Ep1 - Imagining Sanskrit Land <https://youtu.be/jMi7tkPBbJ4>
>
> Ep 2 - Total-am <https://youtu.be/7tAp8m9RHPU>
>
> Ep 3 - Jalam ? Chillum <https://youtu.be/cLZeuCT_mwQ>
>
> Ep 4 - It's Time to get Married
> <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_B3un7aHEAc>
>
> A Day in our Ashram
> <https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=ek+din+hamaare+ashram+mein>
>
> Stop animation short film of Shakuntala
> <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LVqBD_2P4Pg>
>
> Forced to Clean Human Waste <http://youtu.be/y3XfjbwqC_g>
>
> One of my favourite song
> <http://trinityroots.bandcamp.com/track/all-we-be>s
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
> committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
> unsubscribe)
>


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From nagarajpaturi at gmail.com  Tue Sep 20 09:48:11 2016
From: nagarajpaturi at gmail.com (Nagaraj Paturi)
Date: Tue, 20 Sep 16 15:18:11 +0530
Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_[INDOLOGY]_m=C4=ABm=C4=81=E1=B9=83s=C4=81?=
In-Reply-To: <CAODNnZg5+tPc=UvMk892jPK6WhOVBziAHz4KOTg7=Q=81JM7kw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAJGj9eZP02FK3v_HaDqaerc4wswFntFmCHuUExzmEBA1Hi7XJA@mail.gmail.com>

Dear Patrick,

> I thought I might find some help here in locating the passages I seek.

By m?m?ms?, if you mean the original book of the dar?ana on which all the
books known as m?m?ms? books are composed, you do not get any passages as
you sought. The book is in the form of s?tras. .

If you saw a passage as you mentioned, it must be a book interpreting or
discussing the s?tras.

??stra compelling someone to act in a certain way is a complex issue.
Depending on which samprad?ya a person follows, and the var?a and ??rama to
which one considers oneself belonging, feeling oneself  compelled
by ??stra to follow karmak?n?a varies.

For example, a sanny?si of advaita or a follower of certain Bhakti
tradition may not feel compelled that way.

You might want to know the complexity of these details.

A list member may guide you to a publication discussing such details.







On Tue, Sep 20, 2016 at 1:36 PM, Krishnaprasad G <
krishnaprasadah.g at gmail.com> wrote:

> For beginners Arthasangraha is better. Especially the translation and
> notes by A.B Gajendragadkar and R.D Karmarmakar is very lucid and clear
>
> On Sep 20, 2016 9:17 AM, "patrick mccartney" <psdmccartney at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Dear Friends,
>>
>> I find myself intrigued by the idea that there are people today compelled
>> to carry on the karmak???a rituals.
>>
>> I read a brief passage that alludes to the m?m??s? thought-world as
>> providing textual evidence and injunctions for this practice of reenacting
>> scriptural commandments, which were originally meant for a group of people
>> in a different time and place. However, it only mentions m?m??s? and does
>> not mention any specific author or text.
>>
>> I would like to read this text but, as I know very little about m?m??s? I
>> do not really know where to start. I thought I might find some help here in
>> locating the passages I seek.
>>
>> Thank you for your help.
>>
>>
>> All the best,
>>
>> Patrick McCartney, PhD
>> Fellow
>> School of Culture, History & Language
>> College of the Asia-Pacific
>> The Australian National University
>> Canberra, Australia, 0200
>>
>>
>> Skype - psdmccartney
>> Phone + Whatsapp:  +61 414 954 748
>> Twitter - @psdmccartney
>>
>> academia <https://anu-au.academia.edu/patrickmccartney>
>>
>>    -
>>
>> Linkedin
>> <https://www.linkedin.com/profile/view?id=241756978&trk=nav_responsive_tab_profile>
>>
>> #yogabodyANU2016 symposium
>> <http://chl.anu.edu.au/news-events/events/658/yoga-and-body-past-and-present-symposium?#tab>
>>
>> <http://chl.anu.edu.au/news-events/events/658/yoga-and-body-past-and-present-symposium?#tab>
>>
>> Ep1 - Imagining Sanskrit Land <https://youtu.be/jMi7tkPBbJ4>
>>
>> Ep 2 - Total-am <https://youtu.be/7tAp8m9RHPU>
>>
>> Ep 3 - Jalam ? Chillum <https://youtu.be/cLZeuCT_mwQ>
>>
>> Ep 4 - It's Time to get Married
>> <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_B3un7aHEAc>
>>
>> A Day in our Ashram
>> <https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=ek+din+hamaare+ashram+mein>
>>
>> Stop animation short film of Shakuntala
>> <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LVqBD_2P4Pg>
>>
>> Forced to Clean Human Waste <http://youtu.be/y3XfjbwqC_g>
>>
>> One of my favourite song
>> <http://trinityroots.bandcamp.com/track/all-we-be>s
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
>> committee)
>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
>> unsubscribe)
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
> committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
> unsubscribe)
>



-- 
Nagaraj Paturi

Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.

Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies

FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of  Liberal Education,

(Pune, Maharashtra, INDIA )


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From jemhouben at gmail.com  Tue Sep 20 12:02:04 2016
From: jemhouben at gmail.com (Jan E.M. Houben)
Date: Tue, 20 Sep 16 14:02:04 +0200
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Teun Goudriaan and Max Sparreboom
In-Reply-To: <20160901140057.Horde.rxpGzkN5mTGir_CaG68gcQ6@webmail.helsinki.fi>
Message-ID: <CAGCGLoD_0JZXi5RW3BYvR+8et=5B7t4rBbS=CnKuamS09MCdyA@mail.gmail.com>

Very sad to read about the passing away of Teun Goudriaan (on 28 august
2016) and Max Sparreboom (on 30 august 2016).

Bio-bibliographical details on Teun Goudriaan can be found at:
http://dutchstudies-satsea.nl/auteur/69/Teun-Goudriaan.html

on Max Sparreboom:
http://dutchstudies-satsea.nl/auteur/206/MarcusMax-Sparreboom.html

The overview on Teun Goudriaan adds some publications not mentioned by Asko
Parpola, whereas the latter's references contain valuable information not
mentioned in the online overview.

Teun Goudriaan was not only an excellent scholar to whom we owe several
monumental contributions to indology, he was also an excellent teacher at
Utrecht University having the rare skill not only to give the correct
construction of a difficult sentence and explain it in masterly fashion: he
had also a remarkable skill to understand empathically why the student
occasionally arrived at another, seemingly correct but ultimately untenable
solution. I still must have somewhere my course notes of his courses on the
Bhagavata Purana.
Although this was much before my time, he was also known to have been an
excellent student of Prof. Jan Gonda in the late 1950s - early 1960s.
According to anecdote, his notes of Prof. Gonda's courses, showing a
profound grasp and exceptionally rich in detail, aquired a fame on their
own and circulated among fellow students under the name "Gondriaan".

Belated condolences to Teun Goudriaan's and Max Sparreboom's family and
friends.

Jan Houben



On 1 September 2016 at 13:00, <asko.parpola at helsinki.fi> wrote:

>
>
> I was really sad to hear about the passing of Teun Goudriaan and Max
> Sparreboom, who were my friends for decades, Teun Goudriaan since the
> 1960s. While I have nothing to add to Herman Tieken's list of publications
> by Max Sparreboom, there is quite a lot to cover Teun's indological
> publications. As my farewell I list the following.  With regards, Asko
> Parpola
>
>
> Goudriaan, Teunis, 1965. K??yapa's Book of wisdom. (Disputationes
> Rheno-Traiectinae, 10.) The Hague: Mouton & Co. 341 pp. (Ph.D. thesis,
> Utrecht 1965.) This is an annotated translation of an important Vaikh?nasa
> text.
>
> Goudriaan, Teunis, 1970. Vaikh?nasa daily worship. Indo-Iranian Journal
> 12: 161-215.
>
> Goudriaan, T., and C. Hooykaas, 1971. Stuti and stava (Bauddha, ?aiva and
> Vai??ava) of Balinese Brahman priests. (Verhandelingen der Koninklijke
> Nederlandse Akademie van Wetenschappen te Amsterdam, Afdeling Letterkunde,
> N.R. 76) Amsterdam: North-Holland Publishing Company. 609 pp., 8 ill.
>
> Goudriaan, Teun, 1973. Tumburu and his sisters. WZKSA 17: 49-95.
>
> Goudriaan, T., 1973. Deities of the tree-cutting ceremony in Vaikh?nasa
> ?gama. The Adyar Library Bulletin 37: 75-86.
>
> Goudriaan, Teun, 1977. Kha?ga-R?va?a and his worship in Balinese and
> Indian Tantric sources. WZKSA 21: 143-169.
>
> Goudriaan, Teun, 1978. M?y? divine and human: A study of magic and its
> religious foundations in Sanskrit texts, with particular attention to a
> fragment on Vi??u's M?y? preserved in Bali. Delhi: Motilal Banarsidass.
> xiv, 516 pp.
>
> Goudriaan, Teun, and Sanjukta Gupta, 1981. Hindu Tantric and ??kta
> literature. (A history of Indian literature, ed. Jan Gonda, 2:2.)
> Wiesbaden: Otto Harrassowitz.
>
> Goudriaan, Teun, 1985. The V????ikhatantra: A ?aiva Tantra of the left
> current. Edited with an introduction and a translation. Delhi: Motilal
> Banarsidass. viii, 162 pp.
>
> Goudriaan, T., and J.A. Schoterman, 1988. The Kubjik?matatantra,
> Kul?lik?mn?ya version: Critical edition. (Orientalia Rheno-Traiectina, 30.)
> Leiden: E.J. Brill. xii, 571 pp.
>
> Goudriaan, T. (ed.), 1990. The Sanskrit tradition and tantrism. (Panels of
> the VIIth International Sanskrit Conference, Vol. 1.) Leiden: E.J. Brill.
> vii, 121 pp.
>
> Goudriaan, Teun, 1990. The ?tman as charioteer: Treatment of a Vedic
> allegory in the Kul?lik?mn?ya. Pp. 43-55 in: T. Goudriaan (ed.), The
> Sanskrit tradition and tantrism. (Panels of the VIIth International
> Sanskrit Conference, Vol. 1.) Leiden: E.J. Brill.
>
> Goudriaan, Teun (ed.), 1992. (Ed.) Ritual and speculation in early
> Tantrism: Studies in honor of Andr? Padoux. (SUNY series in Tantric
> studies.) Albany: State University of New York Press. xv, 359 p., ill.,
> index. Reprinted, (Sri Garib Dass Oriental Series, 163), Delhi: Sri Satguru
> Publications, 1993. CONTENTS:
> Goudriaan, Teun, 1992. Preface. Pp. vii-xi. Goudriaan, Teun, 1992.
> Publications by Andr? Padoux. Pp. xii-xv. Brunner, H?l?ne, 1992. J??na and
> kriy?: Relation between theory and practice in the ?aiv?gamas. Pp. 1-59.
> B?hnemann, Gudrun, 1992. On pura?cara?a: Kul?r?avatantra, chapter 15. Pp.
> 61-106. Davis, Richard H., 1992. Becoming a ?iva, and acting as one, in
> ?aiva worship. Pp. 107-119. Dviveda, Vrajavallabha, 1992. "Having become a
> god, he should sacrifice to the gods." Pp. 121-138. Goudriaan, Teun, 1992.
> The stages of awakening in the Svacchanda-Tantra. Pp. 139-173. Gupta,
> Sanjukta, 1992. Yoga and antary?ga in P??car?tra. Pp. 175-208. Hara,
> Minoru, 1992. P??upata studies (1). Pp. 209-226. Muller-Ortega, Paul E.,
> 1992. Tantric meditation: Vocalic beginnings. Pp. 227-245. Rastogi,
> Navjivan, 1992. The Yogic disciplines in the monistic |aiva* Tantric*
> traditions of Kashmir: Threefold, fourfold, and six-limbed. Pp. 247-280.
> Sanderson, Alexis, 1992. The doctrine of the M?lin?vijayottaratantra. Pp.
> 281-312. Schoterman, Jan A., 1992. The Kubjik? Upani?ad and its
> Atharvavedic character. Pp. 313-326.  Torella, Raffaele, 1992. The
> pratyabhij?? and the logical-epistemological school of Buddhism. Pp.
> 327-345. Index of Sanskrit terms. Pp. 347-351. Index of names and subjects.
> Pp. 352-359.
>
> Goudriaan, Teun, 1992. Preface. Pp. vii-xi in the above work.
>
> Goudriaan, Teun, 1992. Publications by Andr? Padoux. Pp. xii-xv in the
> above work.
>
> Goudriaan, Teun, 1992. The stages of awakening in the Svacchanda-Tantra.
> Pp. 139-173 in the above work.
>
> Goudriaan, Teun, 1992. The pluriform ?tman. Wiener Zeitschrift f?r die
> Kunde S?dasiens 36.
>
> Goudriaan, Teun, 1993. Obituary: Jan Gonda (14/4/1905 - 28/7/1991).
> Newsletter of the International Association of Sanskrit Studies 4: 18-20.
> Stockholm & Torino: CESMEO.
>
> Goudriaan, Teun, and Jan A. Schoterman, 1994. The Kubjik? Upani?ad, edited
> with a translation, introduction, notes and appendices. (Groningen Oriental
> Studies, 10.) Groningen: Egbert Forsten. viii, 180 pp.
>
> Goudriaan, Teun, 2002. Imagery of the self from Veda to Tantra. Pp.
> 171-192 in: Katherine Anne Harper and Robert L. Brown (eds.), The roots of
> Tantra. (SUNY Series in Tantric Studies.) Albany: State University of New
> York Press.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Quoting "Tieken, H.J.H." <H.J.H.Tieken at hum.leidenuniv.nl>:
>
> Dear list members, it is a sad week for Dutch indology. On the 28th of
>> August Teun Goudrian (M?y? Divine and Human, Vin??ikhatantra) has died at
>> the age of 77, and on the 30th Max Sparreboom (Chariots in the Veda, The
>> Ritual setting up of the Sacrificial Fires According to the V?dh?la School)
>> at the age of 65. Max and I started our studies together in 1970 with Henk
>> Bodewitz and Jan Heesterman. After temporary jobs at the Kern Institute Max
>> worked for NWO, a Dutch funding organisation, was Dean of the Faculty of
>> Humanities at the Erasmus Universiteit (Rotterdam), was Director of the
>> IIAS in Leiden and Director of the Premium Erasmianum. Soon after his
>> retirement in August last year he was diagnosed long cancer (he had stopped
>> smoking some 40 years ago). In addition to his indological work Max
>> published widely on salamanders. Recently a voluminous standard work on
>> salamanders by him has appeared. His work on a book on salamaders in art
>> was interrupted by his death.
>> Herman
>>
>> Herman Tieken
>> Stationsweg 58
>> 2515 BP Den Haag
>> The Netherlands
>> 00 31 (0)70 2208127
>> website: hermantieken.com<http://hermantieken.com/>
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
> committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
> unsubscribe)


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From jemhouben at gmail.com  Tue Sep 20 12:15:07 2016
From: jemhouben at gmail.com (Jan E.M. Houben)
Date: Tue, 20 Sep 16 14:15:07 +0200
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Teun Goudriaan and Max Sparreboom
In-Reply-To: <CAGCGLoD_0JZXi5RW3BYvR+8et=5B7t4rBbS=CnKuamS09MCdyA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAGCGLoAb95+6o8veTA8ERAt5R473m83bL_A_fNJo89DjCLx6FA@mail.gmail.com>

small addition to bibliography of Teun Goudriaan showing, I think, his
mature approach to present an Indian "classic" to the wider public:

Bhagavad Gita: het klassieke boek van inzicht en bezinning

[Met metrische vertaling in het Nederlands door]

Guus Nooteboom

bewerkt door Kuuk Nooteboom

[Met "Ten Geleide" door Teun Goudriaan]

Derde Druk [Met "voorwoord bij de derde druk" door Jan Houben]

Utrecht: Skandalon, 2013 (Eerste Druk: Deventer: Ankh Hermes, 1989)



TEN GELEIDE door Teun Goudriaan [Utrecht, 1989]

De Bhagavadg?t? is zonder twijfel het meest bekende geschrift van het
hindoe?sme. Het werk dateert van ongeveer het begin van onze jaartelling en
is opgenomen in het reusachtige Sanskriet-epos Mah?bh?rata. Ook veel
niet-hindoes zijn er door ge?nspireerd. Nog steeds wordt er in de meest
verschillende contexten naar verwezen. Men kan zich afvragen waaraan deze
tekst zijn grote populariteit te danken heeft. In elk geval niet aan het
sensationele karakter van de inhoud. De G?t? is niet meer en niet minder
dan een ethisch-religieuze beschouwing in versvorm (grotendeels geschreven
in niet-rijmende disticha, ?loka's genaamd). De lezer wordt geconfronteerd
met een ernstige, wel verheven maar toch rustige, betoogtrant. Hij wordt
niet gepaaid met mooie verhalen of andere literaire kunstgrepen. Het is
waarschijnlijk deze simpele waardigheid en directheid die de tekst heeft
doen aanslaan bij miljoenen bewonderaars.

Centraal staat voor d? Gita de vraag hoe wij in alle aardse verwarring een
rustpunt in onszelf kunnen vinden en ongeschonden bewaren. Dit wordt
mogelijk ais wi j ons toevertrouwen aan het Hoogste Wezen (identiek met de
spreker zelf, Krisjna, maar de naam doet er minder toe), en werken aan een
toenemende realisatie van dit Wezen in onszelf.

Talloze malen is de G?ta binnen en buiten India ge?miteerd, bewerkt,
becommentarieerd en vertaald. Er wordt gezegd dat ze na de bijbel het meest
vertaalde boek ter wereld is. En inderdaad: de actualiteit van de boodschap
is nog steeds zodanig dat het de moeite loont om de inhoud voor iedere
nieuwe generatie opnieuw toegankelijk te maken.

De hier voor het eerst uitgegeven vertaling van Guus Nooteboom voegt aan de
interpretatie nog een extra element toe, namelijk dat van de herschepping.
De vertaler was tevens een dichter, voor wie de inhoud pas volledig ging
leven doordat ze in een weliswaar secundair, maar toch authentiek
scheppings?proces werd omgezet in een 'eigentaalse' en eigentijdse
kunstuiting. Men mag hierbij overigens niet vergeten dat het manuscript
reeds een aantal decennia geleden werd afgesloten [net v??r de tweede
wereldoorlog, JH].

Het verdient stellig waardering dat de zoon van de vertaler, Kuuk
Nooteboom, zich grote moeite heeft gegeven het werk van zijn vader alsnog
te doen publiceren [samen met de Sanskriet tekst in Devan?gar? en in
transscriptie en voorzien van talrijke verklarende voetnoten, JH].

Bhagavad Gita: het klassieke boek van inzicht en bezinning

[Met metrische vertaling in het Nederlands door]

Guus Nooteboom

bewerkt door Kuuk Nooteboom

Derde Druk

Utrecht: Skandalon, 2013 (Eerste Druk: Deventer: Ankh Hermes, 1989)



PREFACE by Teun Goudriaan [Utrecht, 1989; my transl. into English]

The Bhagavadg?t? is without doubt the best known scripture of Hinduism. The
work dates from about the beginning of our era and is included in the
gigantic Sanskrit epic Mah?bh?rata. It has inspired also many non-Hindus.
Even now reference is made to it in the most diverse contexts. One may
wonder to what it is that this text owes its great popularity. In any case,
not to the sensational nature of its content. The G?t? is nothing more and
nothing less than a moral-religious philosophy in verse (written largely in
non-rhyming couplets, called ?lokas). The reader is confronted with a
serious, elevated but still calm style of argumentation. He is not placated
with beautiful stories or other literary artifices. It is probably this
simple dignity and straightforwardness which have made it catch on with
millions of admirers.

What is central for the G?t? is the question how in all earthly confusion
we can find a haven within ourselves and preserve it intact. This becomes
possible if we entrust ourselves to the Supreme Being (identical with the
speaker himself, Krishna, but the name is less important), and work towards
a growing realization of this Being within ourselves.

Countless times the G?t? has been imitated within and outside India,
edited, commented and translated. It is said that it is the world's most
translated book after the Bible. And indeed, the actuality of the message
is still such that it is worthwhile to make its content accessible for each
new generation.
The translation by Guus Nooteboom, published here for the first time, adds
an extra element to the interpretation, that of the re-creation. The
translator was also a poet, for whom the content became only fully alive
when it was transformed through an, albeit secondary, yet authentic
creative process into a contemporary artistic expression in one?s own
language. One should not forget, incidentally, that the manuscript of this
metric translation into Dutch was closed several decades ago [just before
WWII, JH]. It certainly deserves appreciation that the son of the
translator, Kuuk Nooteboom, took great efforts to get the work of his
father now for the first time published [together with the Sanskrit text in
Devan?gar? and transliteration, and richly annotated, JH].



*Jan E.M. HOUBEN*

Directeur d??tudes

Sources et histoire de la tradition sanskrite

*?cole Pratique des Hautes ?tudes*

*Sciences historiques et philologiques *

54, rue Saint-Jacques

CS 20525 ? 75005 Paris

johannes.houben at ephe.sorbonne.fr

https://ephe-sorbonne.academia.edu/JanEMHouben

www.ephe.fr


On 20 September 2016 at 14:02, Jan E.M. Houben <jemhouben at gmail.com> wrote:

> Very sad to read about the passing away of Teun Goudriaan (on 28 august
> 2016) and Max Sparreboom (on 30 august 2016).
>
> Bio-bibliographical details on Teun Goudriaan can be found at:
> http://dutchstudies-satsea.nl/auteur/69/Teun-Goudriaan.html
>
> on Max Sparreboom:
> http://dutchstudies-satsea.nl/auteur/206/MarcusMax-Sparreboom.html
>
> The overview on Teun Goudriaan adds some publications not mentioned by
> Asko Parpola, whereas the latter's references contain valuable information
> not mentioned in the online overview.
>
> Teun Goudriaan was not only an excellent scholar to whom we owe several
> monumental contributions to indology, he was also an excellent teacher at
> Utrecht University having the rare skill not only to give the correct
> construction of a difficult sentence and explain it in masterly fashion: he
> had also a remarkable skill to understand empathically why the student
> occasionally arrived at another, seemingly correct but ultimately untenable
> solution. I still must have somewhere my course notes of his courses on the
> Bhagavata Purana.
> Although this was much before my time, he was also known to have been an
> excellent student of Prof. Jan Gonda in the late 1950s - early 1960s.
> According to anecdote, his notes of Prof. Gonda's courses, showing a
> profound grasp and exceptionally rich in detail, aquired a fame on their
> own and circulated among fellow students under the name "Gondriaan".
>
> Belated condolences to Teun Goudriaan's and Max Sparreboom's family and
> friends.
>
> Jan Houben
>
>
>
> On 1 September 2016 at 13:00, <asko.parpola at helsinki.fi> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> I was really sad to hear about the passing of Teun Goudriaan and Max
>> Sparreboom, who were my friends for decades, Teun Goudriaan since the
>> 1960s. While I have nothing to add to Herman Tieken's list of publications
>> by Max Sparreboom, there is quite a lot to cover Teun's indological
>> publications. As my farewell I list the following.  With regards, Asko
>> Parpola
>>
>>
>> Goudriaan, Teunis, 1965. K??yapa's Book of wisdom. (Disputationes
>> Rheno-Traiectinae, 10.) The Hague: Mouton & Co. 341 pp. (Ph.D. thesis,
>> Utrecht 1965.) This is an annotated translation of an important Vaikh?nasa
>> text.
>>
>> Goudriaan, Teunis, 1970. Vaikh?nasa daily worship. Indo-Iranian Journal
>> 12: 161-215.
>>
>> Goudriaan, T., and C. Hooykaas, 1971. Stuti and stava (Bauddha, ?aiva and
>> Vai??ava) of Balinese Brahman priests. (Verhandelingen der Koninklijke
>> Nederlandse Akademie van Wetenschappen te Amsterdam, Afdeling Letterkunde,
>> N.R. 76) Amsterdam: North-Holland Publishing Company. 609 pp., 8 ill.
>>
>> Goudriaan, Teun, 1973. Tumburu and his sisters. WZKSA 17: 49-95.
>>
>> Goudriaan, T., 1973. Deities of the tree-cutting ceremony in Vaikh?nasa
>> ?gama. The Adyar Library Bulletin 37: 75-86.
>>
>> Goudriaan, Teun, 1977. Kha?ga-R?va?a and his worship in Balinese and
>> Indian Tantric sources. WZKSA 21: 143-169.
>>
>> Goudriaan, Teun, 1978. M?y? divine and human: A study of magic and its
>> religious foundations in Sanskrit texts, with particular attention to a
>> fragment on Vi??u's M?y? preserved in Bali. Delhi: Motilal Banarsidass.
>> xiv, 516 pp.
>>
>> Goudriaan, Teun, and Sanjukta Gupta, 1981. Hindu Tantric and ??kta
>> literature. (A history of Indian literature, ed. Jan Gonda, 2:2.)
>> Wiesbaden: Otto Harrassowitz.
>>
>> Goudriaan, Teun, 1985. The V????ikhatantra: A ?aiva Tantra of the left
>> current. Edited with an introduction and a translation. Delhi: Motilal
>> Banarsidass. viii, 162 pp.
>>
>> Goudriaan, T., and J.A. Schoterman, 1988. The Kubjik?matatantra,
>> Kul?lik?mn?ya version: Critical edition. (Orientalia Rheno-Traiectina, 30.)
>> Leiden: E.J. Brill. xii, 571 pp.
>>
>> Goudriaan, T. (ed.), 1990. The Sanskrit tradition and tantrism. (Panels
>> of the VIIth International Sanskrit Conference, Vol. 1.) Leiden: E.J.
>> Brill. vii, 121 pp.
>>
>> Goudriaan, Teun, 1990. The ?tman as charioteer: Treatment of a Vedic
>> allegory in the Kul?lik?mn?ya. Pp. 43-55 in: T. Goudriaan (ed.), The
>> Sanskrit tradition and tantrism. (Panels of the VIIth International
>> Sanskrit Conference, Vol. 1.) Leiden: E.J. Brill.
>>
>> Goudriaan, Teun (ed.), 1992. (Ed.) Ritual and speculation in early
>> Tantrism: Studies in honor of Andr? Padoux. (SUNY series in Tantric
>> studies.) Albany: State University of New York Press. xv, 359 p., ill.,
>> index. Reprinted, (Sri Garib Dass Oriental Series, 163), Delhi: Sri Satguru
>> Publications, 1993. CONTENTS:
>> Goudriaan, Teun, 1992. Preface. Pp. vii-xi. Goudriaan, Teun, 1992.
>> Publications by Andr? Padoux. Pp. xii-xv. Brunner, H?l?ne, 1992. J??na and
>> kriy?: Relation between theory and practice in the ?aiv?gamas. Pp. 1-59.
>> B?hnemann, Gudrun, 1992. On pura?cara?a: Kul?r?avatantra, chapter 15. Pp.
>> 61-106. Davis, Richard H., 1992. Becoming a ?iva, and acting as one, in
>> ?aiva worship. Pp. 107-119. Dviveda, Vrajavallabha, 1992. "Having become a
>> god, he should sacrifice to the gods." Pp. 121-138. Goudriaan, Teun, 1992.
>> The stages of awakening in the Svacchanda-Tantra. Pp. 139-173. Gupta,
>> Sanjukta, 1992. Yoga and antary?ga in P??car?tra. Pp. 175-208. Hara,
>> Minoru, 1992. P??upata studies (1). Pp. 209-226. Muller-Ortega, Paul E.,
>> 1992. Tantric meditation: Vocalic beginnings. Pp. 227-245. Rastogi,
>> Navjivan, 1992. The Yogic disciplines in the monistic |aiva* Tantric*
>> traditions of Kashmir: Threefold, fourfold, and six-limbed. Pp. 247-280.
>> Sanderson, Alexis, 1992. The doctrine of the M?lin?vijayottaratantra. Pp.
>> 281-312. Schoterman, Jan A., 1992. The Kubjik? Upani?ad and its
>> Atharvavedic character. Pp. 313-326.  Torella, Raffaele, 1992. The
>> pratyabhij?? and the logical-epistemological school of Buddhism. Pp.
>> 327-345. Index of Sanskrit terms. Pp. 347-351. Index of names and subjects.
>> Pp. 352-359.
>>
>> Goudriaan, Teun, 1992. Preface. Pp. vii-xi in the above work.
>>
>> Goudriaan, Teun, 1992. Publications by Andr? Padoux. Pp. xii-xv in the
>> above work.
>>
>> Goudriaan, Teun, 1992. The stages of awakening in the Svacchanda-Tantra.
>> Pp. 139-173 in the above work.
>>
>> Goudriaan, Teun, 1992. The pluriform ?tman. Wiener Zeitschrift f?r die
>> Kunde S?dasiens 36.
>>
>> Goudriaan, Teun, 1993. Obituary: Jan Gonda (14/4/1905 - 28/7/1991).
>> Newsletter of the International Association of Sanskrit Studies 4: 18-20.
>> Stockholm & Torino: CESMEO.
>>
>> Goudriaan, Teun, and Jan A. Schoterman, 1994. The Kubjik? Upani?ad,
>> edited with a translation, introduction, notes and appendices. (Groningen
>> Oriental Studies, 10.) Groningen: Egbert Forsten. viii, 180 pp.
>>
>> Goudriaan, Teun, 2002. Imagery of the self from Veda to Tantra. Pp.
>> 171-192 in: Katherine Anne Harper and Robert L. Brown (eds.), The roots of
>> Tantra. (SUNY Series in Tantric Studies.) Albany: State University of New
>> York Press.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Quoting "Tieken, H.J.H." <H.J.H.Tieken at hum.leidenuniv.nl>:
>>
>> Dear list members, it is a sad week for Dutch indology. On the 28th of
>>> August Teun Goudrian (M?y? Divine and Human, Vin??ikhatantra) has died at
>>> the age of 77, and on the 30th Max Sparreboom (Chariots in the Veda, The
>>> Ritual setting up of the Sacrificial Fires According to the V?dh?la School)
>>> at the age of 65. Max and I started our studies together in 1970 with Henk
>>> Bodewitz and Jan Heesterman. After temporary jobs at the Kern Institute Max
>>> worked for NWO, a Dutch funding organisation, was Dean of the Faculty of
>>> Humanities at the Erasmus Universiteit (Rotterdam), was Director of the
>>> IIAS in Leiden and Director of the Premium Erasmianum. Soon after his
>>> retirement in August last year he was diagnosed long cancer (he had stopped
>>> smoking some 40 years ago). In addition to his indological work Max
>>> published widely on salamanders. Recently a voluminous standard work on
>>> salamanders by him has appeared. His work on a book on salamaders in art
>>> was interrupted by his death.
>>> Herman
>>>
>>> Herman Tieken
>>> Stationsweg 58
>>> 2515 BP Den Haag
>>> The Netherlands
>>> 00 31 (0)70 2208127
>>> website: hermantieken.com<http://hermantieken.com/>
>>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
>> committee)
>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
>> unsubscribe)
>
>
>


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From andrew.ollett at gmail.com  Tue Sep 20 13:41:08 2016
From: andrew.ollett at gmail.com (Andrew Ollett)
Date: Tue, 20 Sep 16 09:41:08 -0400
Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_[INDOLOGY]_m=C4=ABm=C4=81=E1=B9=83s=C4=81?=
In-Reply-To: <CAJGj9eZP02FK3v_HaDqaerc4wswFntFmCHuUExzmEBA1Hi7XJA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAANHO17+_GTLXe8skJtDT7AoBAfjSNGt0L4tuCsY8AfV7wF0xg@mail.gmail.com>

Patrick mentioned that scriptural commandments "were originally meant for a
group of people in a different time and place," which is not the way that
M?m??sakas understand scriptural commandments. They consider the
commandments themselves to be outside of time (and apauru?eya, not authored
by any historical person), and their addressees to be defined by open-ended
criteria that cut across time and space (adhik?ra). There is some
discussion of how these commandments are imagined to work in the
M?m??s?ny?yaprak??a, already mentioned, which has been translated by
Franklin Edgerton <http://www.new.dli.ernet.in/handle/2015/264213>, and in
James Benson's recent translation of the M?m??s?ny?yasa?graha of Mah?deva
Ved?ntin (Wiesbaden 2010). Maybe one place to start is the discussion of
adhik?ra-vidhis (in the sixth adhy?ya of the M?m??s? system, and section
225 ff. in Edgerton's translation).

You may also want to consult Kanchana Natarajan, *The Vidhi Viveka of
Ma??ana Mi?ra: Understanding Vedic Injunctions* (Delhi 1995).


On Tue, Sep 20, 2016 at 5:48 AM, Nagaraj Paturi <nagarajpaturi at gmail.com>
wrote:

> Dear Patrick,
>
> > I thought I might find some help here in locating the passages I seek.
>
> By m?m?ms?, if you mean the original book of the dar?ana on which all the
> books known as m?m?ms? books are composed, you do not get any passages as
> you sought. The book is in the form of s?tras. .
>
> If you saw a passage as you mentioned, it must be a book interpreting or
> discussing the s?tras.
>
> ??stra compelling someone to act in a certain way is a complex issue.
> Depending on which samprad?ya a person follows, and the var?a and ??rama to
> which one considers oneself belonging, feeling oneself  compelled
> by ??stra to follow karmak?n?a varies.
>
> For example, a sanny?si of advaita or a follower of certain Bhakti
> tradition may not feel compelled that way.
>
> You might want to know the complexity of these details.
>
> A list member may guide you to a publication discussing such details.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Tue, Sep 20, 2016 at 1:36 PM, Krishnaprasad G <
> krishnaprasadah.g at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> For beginners Arthasangraha is better. Especially the translation and
>> notes by A.B Gajendragadkar and R.D Karmarmakar is very lucid and clear
>>
>> On Sep 20, 2016 9:17 AM, "patrick mccartney" <psdmccartney at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Dear Friends,
>>>
>>> I find myself intrigued by the idea that there are people today
>>> compelled to carry on the karmak???a rituals.
>>>
>>> I read a brief passage that alludes to the m?m??s? thought-world as
>>> providing textual evidence and injunctions for this practice of reenacting
>>> scriptural commandments, which were originally meant for a group of people
>>> in a different time and place. However, it only mentions m?m??s? and does
>>> not mention any specific author or text.
>>>
>>> I would like to read this text but, as I know very little about m?m??s?
>>> I do not really know where to start. I thought I might find some help here
>>> in locating the passages I seek.
>>>
>>> Thank you for your help.
>>>
>>>
>>> All the best,
>>>
>>> Patrick McCartney, PhD
>>> Fellow
>>> School of Culture, History & Language
>>> College of the Asia-Pacific
>>> The Australian National University
>>> Canberra, Australia, 0200
>>>
>>>
>>> Skype - psdmccartney
>>> Phone + Whatsapp:  +61 414 954 748
>>> Twitter - @psdmccartney
>>>
>>> academia <https://anu-au.academia.edu/patrickmccartney>
>>>
>>>    -
>>>
>>> Linkedin
>>> <https://www.linkedin.com/profile/view?id=241756978&trk=nav_responsive_tab_profile>
>>>
>>> #yogabodyANU2016 symposium
>>> <http://chl.anu.edu.au/news-events/events/658/yoga-and-body-past-and-present-symposium?#tab>
>>>
>>> <http://chl.anu.edu.au/news-events/events/658/yoga-and-body-past-and-present-symposium?#tab>
>>>
>>> Ep1 - Imagining Sanskrit Land <https://youtu.be/jMi7tkPBbJ4>
>>>
>>> Ep 2 - Total-am <https://youtu.be/7tAp8m9RHPU>
>>>
>>> Ep 3 - Jalam ? Chillum <https://youtu.be/cLZeuCT_mwQ>
>>>
>>> Ep 4 - It's Time to get Married
>>> <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_B3un7aHEAc>
>>>
>>> A Day in our Ashram
>>> <https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=ek+din+hamaare+ashram+mein>
>>>
>>> Stop animation short film of Shakuntala
>>> <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LVqBD_2P4Pg>
>>>
>>> Forced to Clean Human Waste <http://youtu.be/y3XfjbwqC_g>
>>>
>>> One of my favourite song
>>> <http://trinityroots.bandcamp.com/track/all-we-be>s
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
>>> committee)
>>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options
>>> or unsubscribe)
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
>> committee)
>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
>> unsubscribe)
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Nagaraj Paturi
>
> Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.
>
> Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies
>
> FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of  Liberal Education,
>
> (Pune, Maharashtra, INDIA )
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
> committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
> unsubscribe)
>


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From mmdesh at umich.edu  Tue Sep 20 14:45:41 2016
From: mmdesh at umich.edu (Madhav Deshpande)
Date: Tue, 20 Sep 16 10:45:41 -0400
Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_[INDOLOGY]_m=C4=ABm=C4=81=E1=B9=83s=C4=81?=
In-Reply-To: <CAANHO17+_GTLXe8skJtDT7AoBAfjSNGt0L4tuCsY8AfV7wF0xg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAB3-dzc93i-A=MR32fpftoj+eAecQ=WQuQ0FBj4Lm565dyYM9Q@mail.gmail.com>

The M?m??s? texts referred to by Andrew are all very late texts.  Not to
discount the value of these late texts, it would be best to look at the
early sources of M?m??s?, namely the S?tras of Jaimini and ?abara's Bh??ya,
with commentaries by Kum?rila and Prabh?kara.  The best source may be
Ganganath Jha's book: P?rvam?m??s? in its Sources.  Best,

Madhav Deshpande

On Tue, Sep 20, 2016 at 9:41 AM, Andrew Ollett <andrew.ollett at gmail.com>
wrote:

> Patrick mentioned that scriptural commandments "were originally meant for
> a group of people in a different time and place," which is not the way that
> M?m??sakas understand scriptural commandments. They consider the
> commandments themselves to be outside of time (and apauru?eya, not authored
> by any historical person), and their addressees to be defined by open-ended
> criteria that cut across time and space (adhik?ra). There is some
> discussion of how these commandments are imagined to work in the
> M?m??s?ny?yaprak??a, already mentioned, which has been translated by
> Franklin Edgerton <http://www.new.dli.ernet.in/handle/2015/264213>, and
> in James Benson's recent translation of the M?m??s?ny?yasa?graha of
> Mah?deva Ved?ntin (Wiesbaden 2010). Maybe one place to start is the
> discussion of adhik?ra-vidhis (in the sixth adhy?ya of the M?m??s? system,
> and section 225 ff. in Edgerton's translation).
>
> You may also want to consult Kanchana Natarajan, *The Vidhi Viveka of
> Ma??ana Mi?ra: Understanding Vedic Injunctions* (Delhi 1995).
>
>
> On Tue, Sep 20, 2016 at 5:48 AM, Nagaraj Paturi <nagarajpaturi at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Dear Patrick,
>>
>> > I thought I might find some help here in locating the passages I seek.
>>
>> By m?m?ms?, if you mean the original book of the dar?ana on which all the
>> books known as m?m?ms? books are composed, you do not get any passages as
>> you sought. The book is in the form of s?tras. .
>>
>> If you saw a passage as you mentioned, it must be a book interpreting or
>> discussing the s?tras.
>>
>> ??stra compelling someone to act in a certain way is a complex issue.
>> Depending on which samprad?ya a person follows, and the var?a and ??rama to
>> which one considers oneself belonging, feeling oneself  compelled
>> by ??stra to follow karmak?n?a varies.
>>
>> For example, a sanny?si of advaita or a follower of certain Bhakti
>> tradition may not feel compelled that way.
>>
>> You might want to know the complexity of these details.
>>
>> A list member may guide you to a publication discussing such details.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Sep 20, 2016 at 1:36 PM, Krishnaprasad G <
>> krishnaprasadah.g at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> For beginners Arthasangraha is better. Especially the translation and
>>> notes by A.B Gajendragadkar and R.D Karmarmakar is very lucid and clear
>>>
>>> On Sep 20, 2016 9:17 AM, "patrick mccartney" <psdmccartney at gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Dear Friends,
>>>>
>>>> I find myself intrigued by the idea that there are people today
>>>> compelled to carry on the karmak???a rituals.
>>>>
>>>> I read a brief passage that alludes to the m?m??s? thought-world as
>>>> providing textual evidence and injunctions for this practice of reenacting
>>>> scriptural commandments, which were originally meant for a group of people
>>>> in a different time and place. However, it only mentions m?m??s? and does
>>>> not mention any specific author or text.
>>>>
>>>> I would like to read this text but, as I know very little about m?m??s?
>>>> I do not really know where to start. I thought I might find some help here
>>>> in locating the passages I seek.
>>>>
>>>> Thank you for your help.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> All the best,
>>>>
>>>> Patrick McCartney, PhD
>>>> Fellow
>>>> School of Culture, History & Language
>>>> College of the Asia-Pacific
>>>> The Australian National University
>>>> Canberra, Australia, 0200
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Skype - psdmccartney
>>>> Phone + Whatsapp:  +61 414 954 748
>>>> Twitter - @psdmccartney
>>>>
>>>> academia <https://anu-au.academia.edu/patrickmccartney>
>>>>
>>>>    -
>>>>
>>>> Linkedin
>>>> <https://www.linkedin.com/profile/view?id=241756978&trk=nav_responsive_tab_profile>
>>>>
>>>> #yogabodyANU2016 symposium
>>>> <http://chl.anu.edu.au/news-events/events/658/yoga-and-body-past-and-present-symposium?#tab>
>>>>
>>>> <http://chl.anu.edu.au/news-events/events/658/yoga-and-body-past-and-present-symposium?#tab>
>>>>
>>>> Ep1 - Imagining Sanskrit Land <https://youtu.be/jMi7tkPBbJ4>
>>>>
>>>> Ep 2 - Total-am <https://youtu.be/7tAp8m9RHPU>
>>>>
>>>> Ep 3 - Jalam ? Chillum <https://youtu.be/cLZeuCT_mwQ>
>>>>
>>>> Ep 4 - It's Time to get Married
>>>> <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_B3un7aHEAc>
>>>>
>>>> A Day in our Ashram
>>>> <https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=ek+din+hamaare+ashram+mein>
>>>>
>>>> Stop animation short film of Shakuntala
>>>> <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LVqBD_2P4Pg>
>>>>
>>>> Forced to Clean Human Waste <http://youtu.be/y3XfjbwqC_g>
>>>>
>>>> One of my favourite song
>>>> <http://trinityroots.bandcamp.com/track/all-we-be>s
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>>>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>>>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
>>>> committee)
>>>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options
>>>> or unsubscribe)
>>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
>>> committee)
>>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options
>>> or unsubscribe)
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Nagaraj Paturi
>>
>> Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.
>>
>> Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies
>>
>> FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of  Liberal Education,
>>
>> (Pune, Maharashtra, INDIA )
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
>> committee)
>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
>> unsubscribe)
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
> committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
> unsubscribe)
>


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From dharmaprof108 at yahoo.com  Tue Sep 20 15:31:59 2016
From: dharmaprof108 at yahoo.com (Jeffery Long)
Date: Tue, 20 Sep 16 15:31:59 +0000
Subject: Versification of Sanskrit Texts
In-Reply-To: <1580878511.1653642.1474385519461.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1580878511.1653642.1474385519461@mail.yahoo.com>

Dear Colleagues,
I would be grateful if any of you could recommend a good study on the process by which the chapter and verse numbers of texts such as the Upani?ads?and Bhagavad G?t? have been?determined. ?I recently had a conversation with the editor of a journal for which I had written an article that cited BG?13.4. ?The editor thought the verse should have been cited as BG?13.5, but then he found that some editions do list it as 13.4. ?This is actually a question that has intrigued me for some time. ?How ancient is this system of chapters and verses? ?I have always been struck by the similarities between BG 2.19 and Kathopani?ad?2.19 and wondered if this was deliberate.
Any guidance that can be offered will be most appreciated! ?And forgive me if this appears to be an amateurish question. ?Being trained primarily in philosophy, my expertise has focused more on the content of these texts than the mechanics of their composition.
All the best,Jeff?Dr. Jeffery D. Long
Professor of Religion and Asian Studies
Elizabethtown CollegeElizabethtown, PA
https://etown.academia.edu/JefferyLong
Series Editor,?Explorations in Indic Traditions: Theological, Ethical, and PhilosophicalLexington Books
Consulting Editor,?Sutra Journalhttp://www.sutrajournal.com

"One who makes a habit of prayer and meditation will easily overcome all difficulties and remain calm and unruffled in the midst of the trials of life." ?(Holy Mother Sarada Devi)


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From dharmaprof108 at yahoo.com  Tue Sep 20 15:34:50 2016
From: dharmaprof108 at yahoo.com (Jeffery Long)
Date: Tue, 20 Sep 16 15:34:50 +0000
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Versification of Sanskrit Texts
In-Reply-To: <mailman.120.1474385562.17678.indology_list.indology.info@list.indology.info>
Message-ID: <2010727166.1644919.1474385690388@mail.yahoo.com>

P.S. And please forgive the diacritical error in my last posting. ?I should have written Ka?hopani?ad.?Dr. Jeffery D. Long
Professor of Religion and Asian Studies
Elizabethtown CollegeElizabethtown, PA
https://etown.academia.edu/JefferyLong
Series Editor,?Explorations in Indic Traditions: Theological, Ethical, and PhilosophicalLexington Books
Consulting Editor,?Sutra Journalhttp://www.sutrajournal.com

"One who makes a habit of prayer and meditation will easily overcome all difficulties and remain calm and unruffled in the midst of the trials of life." ?(Holy Mother Sarada Devi)
 

    On Tuesday, September 20, 2016 11:32 AM, Jeffery Long via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info> wrote:
 

 Dear Colleagues,
I would be grateful if any of you could recommend a good study on the process by which the chapter and verse numbers of texts such as the Upani?ads?and Bhagavad G?t? have been?determined. ?I recently had a conversation with the editor of a journal for which I had written an article that cited BG?13.4. ?The editor thought the verse should have been cited as BG?13.5, but then he found that some editions do list it as 13.4. ?This is actually a question that has intrigued me for some time. ?How ancient is this system of chapters and verses? ?I have always been struck by the similarities between BG 2.19 and Kathopani?ad?2.19 and wondered if this was deliberate.
Any guidance that can be offered will be most appreciated! ?And forgive me if this appears to be an amateurish question. ?Being trained primarily in philosophy, my expertise has focused more on the content of these texts than the mechanics of their composition.
All the best,Jeff?Dr. Jeffery D. Long
Professor of Religion and Asian Studies
Elizabethtown CollegeElizabethtown, PA
https://etown.academia.edu/JefferyLong
Series Editor,?Explorations in Indic Traditions: Theological, Ethical, and PhilosophicalLexington Books
Consulting Editor,?Sutra Journalhttp://www.sutrajournal.com

"One who makes a habit of prayer and meditation will easily overcome all difficulties and remain calm and unruffled in the midst of the trials of life." ?(Holy Mother Sarada Devi)

_______________________________________________
INDOLOGY mailing list
INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee)
http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe)

   


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From paoloe.rosati at gmail.com  Tue Sep 20 20:44:55 2016
From: paoloe.rosati at gmail.com (Paolo Eugenio Rosati)
Date: Tue, 20 Sep 16 22:44:55 +0200
Subject: [INDOLOGY] PDF request: Some Mahabharata's verses
Message-ID: <CAMOCTf-010QWi6rqLZ8CSqK=ejWhkAnpMBmu4iqE6zppr_pRYQ@mail.gmail.com>

Dear Indologists,

I'm looking for a pdf copy of the following parts of the Mahabharata's
translation edited by the University of Chicago Press:

2.9.10-15;  2.23.19;  2.31.9-10;  2.47.12
5.48.80-2;
7.29.30-39;
10.18;
12.272-274; particularly 12.274.34-59

Anyone can help me?

Best,
Paolo

-- 
Paolo E. Rosati
Oriental Archaeologist
PhD candidate in "Civilizations of Asia and Africa"
South Asia Section
Dep. Italian Institute of Oriental Studies/ISO
'Sapienza' University of Rome
*https://uniroma1.academia.edu/PaoloRosati/
<https://uniroma1.academia.edu/PaoloRosati/>*
paoloe.rosati at uniroma1.it
paoloe.rosati at gmail.com
Skype: paoloe.rosati
Mobile: (+39) 338 73 83 472


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From mmdesh at umich.edu  Tue Sep 20 21:32:59 2016
From: mmdesh at umich.edu (Madhav Deshpande)
Date: Tue, 20 Sep 16 17:32:59 -0400
Subject: =?utf-8?Q?[INDOLOGY]_The_text_of_B=C4=81lagop=C4=81lastuti=3F?=
Message-ID: <CAB3-dzdVX0A9Fyf0W5N7kBBBBZY1JjLb2g0ZUxBh2tp9MZQJYQ@mail.gmail.com>

Is the text of B?lagop?lastuti (by L?l??uka) available in any form?  One of
my students needs access to this text.  There are scattered manuscript
folios available on the web, but I don't see an edition or an e-text
available.  Nothing listed on the WorldCat.  Any help will be deeply
appreciated.

Madhav Deshpande
Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA


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From harshadehejia at hotmail.com  Tue Sep 20 23:03:36 2016
From: harshadehejia at hotmail.com (Harsha Dehejia)
Date: Tue, 20 Sep 16 23:03:36 +0000
Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_[INDOLOGY]_The_text_of_B=C4=81lagop=C4=81lastuti=3F?=
In-Reply-To: <CAB3-dzdVX0A9Fyf0W5N7kBBBBZY1JjLb2g0ZUxBh2tp9MZQJYQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <SN1PR19MB023814D3D212EF40A1D32CF1A0F70@SN1PR19MB0238.namprd19.prod.outlook.com>

Madhav
Narmada Upadhyaya and I are working on this very subject. I have images of 122 folios from the POW Museum in Mumbai. 

Prof. Upadhyaya is getting it translated. 

How urgent is the need?

Kind regards
Harsha
Prof, Harsha V Dehejia
Sent from my iPhone

> On Sep 20, 2016, at 5:33 PM, Madhav Deshpande <mmdesh at umich.edu> wrote:
> 
> Is the text of B?lagop?lastuti (by L?l??uka) available in any form?  One of my students needs access to this text.  There are scattered manuscript folios available on the web, but I don't see an edition or an e-text available.  Nothing listed on the WorldCat.  Any help will be deeply appreciated.
> 
> Madhav Deshpande
> Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe)





From nagarajpaturi at gmail.com  Wed Sep 21 02:35:44 2016
From: nagarajpaturi at gmail.com (Nagaraj Paturi)
Date: Wed, 21 Sep 16 08:05:44 +0530
Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_[INDOLOGY]_m=C4=ABm=C4=81=E1=B9=83s=C4=81?=
In-Reply-To: <CAB3-dzc93i-A=MR32fpftoj+eAecQ=WQuQ0FBj4Lm565dyYM9Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAJGj9eascxr2OHve7QrdizcyGLTVsawSD5r7h4JvDfCwRYGUZQ@mail.gmail.com>

Patrick would not have been so intrigued if he placed the issue in a
broader ritual studies framework, since the tradition insider /tradition
follower of a certain culture feeling compelled to perform the rituals
forming part of the culture is one of the cultural universals.

Traditionalism, i.e. performing rituals with the idea/belief that they have
to be and are being performed exactly the way the ancestors or the
'beginners' of the rituals performed them., is one of the defining features
of a ritual.



On Tue, Sep 20, 2016 at 8:15 PM, Madhav Deshpande <mmdesh at umich.edu> wrote:

> The M?m??s? texts referred to by Andrew are all very late texts.  Not to
> discount the value of these late texts, it would be best to look at the
> early sources of M?m??s?, namely the S?tras of Jaimini and ?abara's Bh??ya,
> with commentaries by Kum?rila and Prabh?kara.  The best source may be
> Ganganath Jha's book: P?rvam?m??s? in its Sources.  Best,
>
> Madhav Deshpande
>
> On Tue, Sep 20, 2016 at 9:41 AM, Andrew Ollett <andrew.ollett at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Patrick mentioned that scriptural commandments "were originally meant for
>> a group of people in a different time and place," which is not the way that
>> M?m??sakas understand scriptural commandments. They consider the
>> commandments themselves to be outside of time (and apauru?eya, not authored
>> by any historical person), and their addressees to be defined by open-ended
>> criteria that cut across time and space (adhik?ra). There is some
>> discussion of how these commandments are imagined to work in the
>> M?m??s?ny?yaprak??a, already mentioned, which has been translated by
>> Franklin Edgerton <http://www.new.dli.ernet.in/handle/2015/264213>, and
>> in James Benson's recent translation of the M?m??s?ny?yasa?graha of
>> Mah?deva Ved?ntin (Wiesbaden 2010). Maybe one place to start is the
>> discussion of adhik?ra-vidhis (in the sixth adhy?ya of the M?m??s? system,
>> and section 225 ff. in Edgerton's translation).
>>
>> You may also want to consult Kanchana Natarajan, *The Vidhi Viveka of
>> Ma??ana Mi?ra: Understanding Vedic Injunctions* (Delhi 1995).
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Sep 20, 2016 at 5:48 AM, Nagaraj Paturi <nagarajpaturi at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Dear Patrick,
>>>
>>> > I thought I might find some help here in locating the passages I seek.
>>>
>>> By m?m?ms?, if you mean the original book of the dar?ana on which all
>>> the books known as m?m?ms? books are composed, you do not get any passages
>>> as you sought. The book is in the form of s?tras. .
>>>
>>> If you saw a passage as you mentioned, it must be a book interpreting or
>>> discussing the s?tras.
>>>
>>> ??stra compelling someone to act in a certain way is a complex issue.
>>> Depending on which samprad?ya a person follows, and the var?a and ??rama to
>>> which one considers oneself belonging, feeling oneself  compelled
>>> by ??stra to follow karmak?n?a varies.
>>>
>>> For example, a sanny?si of advaita or a follower of certain Bhakti
>>> tradition may not feel compelled that way.
>>>
>>> You might want to know the complexity of these details.
>>>
>>> A list member may guide you to a publication discussing such details.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tue, Sep 20, 2016 at 1:36 PM, Krishnaprasad G <
>>> krishnaprasadah.g at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> For beginners Arthasangraha is better. Especially the translation and
>>>> notes by A.B Gajendragadkar and R.D Karmarmakar is very lucid and clear
>>>>
>>>> On Sep 20, 2016 9:17 AM, "patrick mccartney" <psdmccartney at gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Dear Friends,
>>>>>
>>>>> I find myself intrigued by the idea that there are people today
>>>>> compelled to carry on the karmak???a rituals.
>>>>>
>>>>> I read a brief passage that alludes to the m?m??s? thought-world as
>>>>> providing textual evidence and injunctions for this practice of reenacting
>>>>> scriptural commandments, which were originally meant for a group of people
>>>>> in a different time and place. However, it only mentions m?m??s? and does
>>>>> not mention any specific author or text.
>>>>>
>>>>> I would like to read this text but, as I know very little about
>>>>> m?m??s? I do not really know where to start. I thought I might find some
>>>>> help here in locating the passages I seek.
>>>>>
>>>>> Thank you for your help.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> All the best,
>>>>>
>>>>> Patrick McCartney, PhD
>>>>> Fellow
>>>>> School of Culture, History & Language
>>>>> College of the Asia-Pacific
>>>>> The Australian National University
>>>>> Canberra, Australia, 0200
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Skype - psdmccartney
>>>>> Phone + Whatsapp:  +61 414 954 748
>>>>> Twitter - @psdmccartney
>>>>>
>>>>> academia <https://anu-au.academia.edu/patrickmccartney>
>>>>>
>>>>>    -
>>>>>
>>>>> Linkedin
>>>>> <https://www.linkedin.com/profile/view?id=241756978&trk=nav_responsive_tab_profile>
>>>>>
>>>>> #yogabodyANU2016 symposium
>>>>> <http://chl.anu.edu.au/news-events/events/658/yoga-and-body-past-and-present-symposium?#tab>
>>>>>
>>>>> <http://chl.anu.edu.au/news-events/events/658/yoga-and-body-past-and-present-symposium?#tab>
>>>>>
>>>>> Ep1 - Imagining Sanskrit Land <https://youtu.be/jMi7tkPBbJ4>
>>>>>
>>>>> Ep 2 - Total-am <https://youtu.be/7tAp8m9RHPU>
>>>>>
>>>>> Ep 3 - Jalam ? Chillum <https://youtu.be/cLZeuCT_mwQ>
>>>>>
>>>>> Ep 4 - It's Time to get Married
>>>>> <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_B3un7aHEAc>
>>>>>
>>>>> A Day in our Ashram
>>>>> <https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=ek+din+hamaare+ashram+mein>
>>>>>
>>>>> Stop animation short film of Shakuntala
>>>>> <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LVqBD_2P4Pg>
>>>>>
>>>>> Forced to Clean Human Waste <http://youtu.be/y3XfjbwqC_g>
>>>>>
>>>>> One of my favourite song
>>>>> <http://trinityroots.bandcamp.com/track/all-we-be>s
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>>>>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>>>>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
>>>>> committee)
>>>>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options
>>>>> or unsubscribe)
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>>>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>>>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
>>>> committee)
>>>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options
>>>> or unsubscribe)
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Nagaraj Paturi
>>>
>>> Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.
>>>
>>> Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies
>>>
>>> FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of  Liberal Education,
>>>
>>> (Pune, Maharashtra, INDIA )
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
>>> committee)
>>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options
>>> or unsubscribe)
>>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
>> committee)
>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
>> unsubscribe)
>>
>
>


-- 
Nagaraj Paturi

Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.

Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies

FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of  Liberal Education,

(Pune, Maharashtra, INDIA )


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From psdmccartney at gmail.com  Wed Sep 21 04:10:33 2016
From: psdmccartney at gmail.com (patrick mccartney)
Date: Wed, 21 Sep 16 13:40:33 +0930
Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_[INDOLOGY]_m=C4=ABm=C4=81=E1=B9=83s=C4=81?=
In-Reply-To: <CAJGj9eZP02FK3v_HaDqaerc4wswFntFmCHuUExzmEBA1Hi7XJA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAEzwJrAhLttie9eYLB0HAszi8nTMVNRjxE-84aWahwwnCFewqw@mail.gmail.com>

Dear Friends,

Thanks to everyone who has taken the time to respond. I have a bit to read
with all of your thoughtful suggestions.

Andrew, thank you for the link and the discussion. I was quoting the author
from where I read this passage "were originally meant for a group of people
in a different time and place". The author does discuss the apaure?eya
logic, but the above quote refers to this logic being culturally,
geographically and temporarily contingent, even if the idea is that it is
'outside of time'.

Nagaraj, I take your point that bhaktas, etc might not feel compelled to
act in this particular way. However, my ethnographic work in one
essentially bhakta community shows how they do privilege and conduct
regular yaj?as because they have the impression that it is essentially a
dharmic duty that is central to help uphold ?ta. They also explain on their
website how they follow and promote a 'vedic way of life'. This phrase has
become ubiquitous within the marketing strategies of many yoga gurus and
organisations.  It is in my process of trying to understand what
constitutes a '21st century Vedic way of life' that I ask these questions.
Like you suggest, it is very complicated, and while a traditionalist
approach of a broader ritualist framework might work, I believe my
questions are still valid. Moreover, I find the framework you suggest makes
this process even more intriguing, even if you suggest on the one hand that
it is 'complicated' and than, on the other hand, as in your last email
suggest it is quite 'simple' (ie traditionalism), and that because I'm a
naive outsider to the tradition I just don't see it. At least I think that
is what you are suggesting? There are politico-religious influences that
also come into play that have seemingly nothing to do with ritual
traditionalism and more to do with the performance of a particular identity
that incorporates aspects of a re-imagined Vedic past as a way to gain
moral, cultural and political leverage, both domestically and
internationally.

At the moment I am trying to find the particular 'scriptural commandments'
that suggest conducting fire ceremonies, etc is obligatory, and understand
how these commandments and the practices still matter today to some people,
and how identities and meanings accrete around such floating signifiers as
'vedic'. I am interested in what impels and motivates people to want to
follow any particular practice or lifestyle?

My observations and interviews with a variety of participants indicates
that it is generally an aesthetic quality and, ultimately, the experience
of ??ntarasa that people equate with experiencing through attending yaj?as
(in this one ashram at least). While the discussions do not include
specific mention of rasas or rasav?da per se, they do include mentioning
that they feel more 'peaceful' as a result, and that the various 'elements'
are balanced, etc., and that this is a good thing for the individual,
community, nation (particularly a Hindu r???ra), and world. However, I feel
this is more an internalisation of the community's orthopraxis and
discourse, which is then re-articulated as a strategy to gain acceptance
and legitimacy as a potential insider within this parampar?.  I do not
doubt the subjective experiences of the participants. Ultimately, it is the
emic perspective I aim to privilege and discuss.

Interestingly, the Vedic theology of debt, ie paying off the actions of the
ancestors through performing ceremonies, studying, initiation, etc is never
mentioned by the vide?i practitioners. It is also hardly ever mentioned by
the de?i practitioners either, unless, perhaps they are trained in
karmak???a.

I guess, ultimately, my assertion is that no matter how 'Vedic' one says
their practice/lifestyle is, even if it includes yaj?as, etc, it is more
'neo-Hindu' than truly 'Vedic'. I think this extends throughout the
ontological, epistemological and soteriological realms as well. Therefore,
I am trying to get a much better picture of what a 'Vedic way of life' may
have encapsulated through understanding better the foundational texts and
comparing that with the lived experiences of people today who assert their
'Vedic way of life' is more authentic than the yoga school/ashram down the
street.

I look at this domain where gurus offer information in 'spiritual packages'
through e-dar?an, F2F dar?an in satsa?ga, etc for 'seekers' today as a
'tidal zone of persuasion'. There are implicit market forces that prevent
certain discourses and practices from being mentioned or promoted because
they might not be consumed if it is too opaque and culturally/temporally
contingent Vedic injunctions. People might lose interest quicker than
expected, especially if their ideas of a 'Vedic lifestyle' do not match
with those of the consumers of this lifestyle. But, if the message is too
watered down then it loses its 'authenticity'. For instance, any feminist
or queer critique of a Vedic theology *might* create problems for the
contemporary 'universalist' assertions often promoted.

The bhakti tradition is a veritable springboard for modern postural yoga
practitioners to enter this 'way of life' and extend their 'yoga practice'
beyond ?sana/pr???y?ma + samyama. But as we know, the bhakti tradition is a
much later development, and yet it is often included in marketing as a
central component of a 'Vedic lifestyle'. Increasingly, I see the inclusion
of k?rtana as becoming emblematic of a more 'authentic' and 'wholesome'
yoga practice. In Sydney, there are several yoga studios which market their
brand of yoga by also offering k?rtana or 'yoga events' that include
k?rtana. This strategy for creating distinction is a somewhat recent trend
in the Australian yoga scene that of course only appeals to a certain kind
of practitioner. Yet, I would argue that for some has become the measuring
stick for how 'authentic' one's yoga practice can become. If we dare
include Malhotra's 'U-turn Theory' into the discussion of cultural
appropriation things become even more *interesting*. But I'm not that
inspired by this theory.

Perhaps, I have said too much. I just wanted to say I really do appreciate
this community and value the opportunity to exchange ideas and ask
questions. I continue to learn so much from you.

Thanks again.


All the best,

Patrick McCartney, PhD
Fellow
School of Culture, History & Language
College of the Asia-Pacific
The Australian National University
Canberra, Australia, 0200


Skype - psdmccartney
Phone + Whatsapp:  +61 414 954 748
Twitter - @psdmccartney

academia <https://anu-au.academia.edu/patrickmccartney>

   -

Linkedin
<https://www.linkedin.com/profile/view?id=241756978&trk=nav_responsive_tab_profile>

#yogabodyANU2016 symposium
<http://chl.anu.edu.au/news-events/events/658/yoga-and-body-past-and-present-symposium?#tab>

<http://chl.anu.edu.au/news-events/events/658/yoga-and-body-past-and-present-symposium?#tab>

Ep1 - Imagining Sanskrit Land <https://youtu.be/jMi7tkPBbJ4>

Ep 2 - Total-am <https://youtu.be/7tAp8m9RHPU>

Ep 3 - Jalam ? Chillum <https://youtu.be/cLZeuCT_mwQ>

Ep 4 - It's Time to get Married
<https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_B3un7aHEAc>

A Day in our Ashram
<https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=ek+din+hamaare+ashram+mein>

Stop animation short film of Shakuntala
<https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LVqBD_2P4Pg>

Forced to Clean Human Waste <http://youtu.be/y3XfjbwqC_g>

One of my favourite song <http://trinityroots.bandcamp.com/track/all-we-be>s





On Tue, Sep 20, 2016 at 7:18 PM, Nagaraj Paturi <nagarajpaturi at gmail.com>
wrote:

> Dear Patrick,
>
> > I thought I might find some help here in locating the passages I seek.
>
> By m?m?ms?, if you mean the original book of the dar?ana on which all the
> books known as m?m?ms? books are composed, you do not get any passages as
> you sought. The book is in the form of s?tras. .
>
> If you saw a passage as you mentioned, it must be a book interpreting or
> discussing the s?tras.
>
> ??stra compelling someone to act in a certain way is a complex issue.
> Depending on which samprad?ya a person follows, and the var?a and ??rama to
> which one considers oneself belonging, feeling oneself  compelled
> by ??stra to follow karmak?n?a varies.
>
> For example, a sanny?si of advaita or a follower of certain Bhakti
> tradition may not feel compelled that way.
>
> You might want to know the complexity of these details.
>
> A list member may guide you to a publication discussing such details.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Tue, Sep 20, 2016 at 1:36 PM, Krishnaprasad G <
> krishnaprasadah.g at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> For beginners Arthasangraha is better. Especially the translation and
>> notes by A.B Gajendragadkar and R.D Karmarmakar is very lucid and clear
>>
>> On Sep 20, 2016 9:17 AM, "patrick mccartney" <psdmccartney at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Dear Friends,
>>>
>>> I find myself intrigued by the idea that there are people today
>>> compelled to carry on the karmak???a rituals.
>>>
>>> I read a brief passage that alludes to the m?m??s? thought-world as
>>> providing textual evidence and injunctions for this practice of reenacting
>>> scriptural commandments, which were originally meant for a group of people
>>> in a different time and place. However, it only mentions m?m??s? and does
>>> not mention any specific author or text.
>>>
>>> I would like to read this text but, as I know very little about m?m??s?
>>> I do not really know where to start. I thought I might find some help here
>>> in locating the passages I seek.
>>>
>>> Thank you for your help.
>>>
>>>
>>> All the best,
>>>
>>> Patrick McCartney, PhD
>>> Fellow
>>> School of Culture, History & Language
>>> College of the Asia-Pacific
>>> The Australian National University
>>> Canberra, Australia, 0200
>>>
>>>
>>> Skype - psdmccartney
>>> Phone + Whatsapp:  +61 414 954 748
>>> Twitter - @psdmccartney
>>>
>>> academia <https://anu-au.academia.edu/patrickmccartney>
>>>
>>>    -
>>>
>>> Linkedin
>>> <https://www.linkedin.com/profile/view?id=241756978&trk=nav_responsive_tab_profile>
>>>
>>> #yogabodyANU2016 symposium
>>> <http://chl.anu.edu.au/news-events/events/658/yoga-and-body-past-and-present-symposium?#tab>
>>>
>>> <http://chl.anu.edu.au/news-events/events/658/yoga-and-body-past-and-present-symposium?#tab>
>>>
>>> Ep1 - Imagining Sanskrit Land <https://youtu.be/jMi7tkPBbJ4>
>>>
>>> Ep 2 - Total-am <https://youtu.be/7tAp8m9RHPU>
>>>
>>> Ep 3 - Jalam ? Chillum <https://youtu.be/cLZeuCT_mwQ>
>>>
>>> Ep 4 - It's Time to get Married
>>> <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_B3un7aHEAc>
>>>
>>> A Day in our Ashram
>>> <https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=ek+din+hamaare+ashram+mein>
>>>
>>> Stop animation short film of Shakuntala
>>> <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LVqBD_2P4Pg>
>>>
>>> Forced to Clean Human Waste <http://youtu.be/y3XfjbwqC_g>
>>>
>>> One of my favourite song
>>> <http://trinityroots.bandcamp.com/track/all-we-be>s
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
>>> committee)
>>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options
>>> or unsubscribe)
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
>> committee)
>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
>> unsubscribe)
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Nagaraj Paturi
>
> Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.
>
> Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies
>
> FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of  Liberal Education,
>
> (Pune, Maharashtra, INDIA )
>
>
>
>


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From michaels at asia-europe.uni-heidelberg.de  Wed Sep 21 04:13:29 2016
From: michaels at asia-europe.uni-heidelberg.de (Michaels, Axel)
Date: Wed, 21 Sep 16 04:13:29 +0000
Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_[INDOLOGY]_m=C4=ABm=C4=81=E1=B9=83s=C4=81?=
In-Reply-To: <74596473-11EB-439C-8A3C-F9C2AB6CFE0F@austin.utexas.edu>
Message-ID: <F83FAFC0-0EF5-4D08-B415-CEA15C487263@asia-europe.uni-heidelberg.de>

Dear all,

in my recent book ?Homo ritualis?Hindu Rituals and Ist Significance for Ritual Theory? (OUP, 2016, ch. 9), I have elaborated on the relation of P?rvam?m??s? and the practice of ritual as exemplified in the Arthasa?graha and other texts.

Best,
Axel Michaels

Von: INDOLOGY <indology-bounces at list.indology.info> im Auftrag von "Olivelle, J P" <jpo at austin.utexas.edu>
Datum: Dienstag, 20. September 2016 um 09:53
An: patrick mccartney <psdmccartney at gmail.com>
Cc: "indology at list.indology.info" <indology at list.indology.info>
Betreff: Re: [INDOLOGY] m?m??s?

Try, M?m????ny?yaprak??a edited and translated by Edgerton.



On Sep 19, 2016, at 10:45 PM, patrick mccartney <psdmccartney at gmail.com<mailto:psdmccartney at gmail.com>> wrote:

Dear Friends,

I find myself intrigued by the idea that there are people today compelled to carry on the karmak???a rituals.

I read a brief passage that alludes to the m?m??s? thought-world as providing textual evidence and injunctions for this practice of reenacting scriptural commandments, which were originally meant for a group of people in a different time and place. However, it only mentions m?m??s? and does not mention any specific author or text.

I would like to read this text but, as I know very little about m?m??s? I do not really know where to start. I thought I might find some help here in locating the passages I seek.

Thank you for your help.


All the best,
Patrick McCartney, PhD
Fellow
School of Culture, History & Language
College of the Asia-Pacific
The Australian National University
Canberra, Australia, 0200


Skype - psdmccartney
Phone + Whatsapp:  +61 414 954 748
Twitter - @psdmccartney

academia<https://anu-au.academia.edu/patrickmccartney>
?
Linkedin<https://www.linkedin.com/profile/view?id=241756978&trk=nav_responsive_tab_profile>

#yogabodyANU2016 symposium<http://chl.anu.edu.au/news-events/events/658/yoga-and-body-past-and-present-symposium?#tab> <http://chl.anu.edu.au/news-events/events/658/yoga-and-body-past-and-present-symposium?#tab>

Ep1 - Imagining Sanskrit Land<https://youtu.be/jMi7tkPBbJ4>

Ep 2 - Total-am<https://youtu.be/7tAp8m9RHPU>

Ep 3 - Jalam ? Chillum<https://youtu.be/cLZeuCT_mwQ>

Ep 4 - It's Time to get Married<https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_B3un7aHEAc>

A Day in our Ashram<https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=ek+din+hamaare+ashram+mein>

Stop animation short film of Shakuntala <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LVqBD_2P4Pg>

Forced to Clean Human Waste<http://youtu.be/y3XfjbwqC_g>

One of my favourite song<http://trinityroots.bandcamp.com/track/all-we-be>s



_______________________________________________
INDOLOGY mailing list
INDOLOGY at list.indology.info<mailto:INDOLOGY at list.indology.info>
indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee)
http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe)



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From nagarajpaturi at gmail.com  Wed Sep 21 07:35:41 2016
From: nagarajpaturi at gmail.com (Nagaraj Paturi)
Date: Wed, 21 Sep 16 13:05:41 +0530
Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_[INDOLOGY]_m=C4=ABm=C4=81=E1=B9=83s=C4=81?=
In-Reply-To: <F83FAFC0-0EF5-4D08-B415-CEA15C487263@asia-europe.uni-heidelberg.de>
Message-ID: <CAJGj9eZSaXhtahSohzMz6Lp-nGVEngcAxNEfrKE7iVyKs1ySng@mail.gmail.com>

Patrick, your more detailed elaboration of your point of enquiry supplied
many things that were missing in your thread initiating post. It is these
details that I was trying to gather through my responses to your
'na?ve-looking' question which I knew did not have the naivety  it
reflected,  in its actual background.

Now that you made the details clear, let me converse with you on those
lines.

1. Yes, at the outset , the karmak?n?a practitioner of 2016 feeling
compelled to follow the scriptural injunctions to perform the rituals and
believing that he is performing the rituals exactly the way his ancestors
or 'beginners' of the rituals performed them  is part of the general
cultural universal of ritual performance. In a purely oral society of ,say,
a tribal community, the norms of the ritual may not be perceived to be
coming from a 'scripture' or its injunctions. But pattern is the same.
Members of organized, say, semitic religions, may consider the norms to
have been 'written down' in a 'book'. Nevertheless, they too share the
feature of believing that they are re-enacting the performance of the
rituals performed by their ancestors or 'beginners' of the rituals, in
spite of the changes in the details of the performance. Just as the
contemporary 'Hindu' considers his ritual to be 'Vedic', in spite of the
changes, they too consider their rituals to be of Judaism or Christianity
in spite of the changes. This belief that present form has continuity with
or from the past one is vital to each of these cultures because identity of
each of these is anchored to this belief in continuity.

2. What makes the 'Hindu' scene more complex than this is that it has an
auto-anthropology of issues such as what a ritual is(kim karma), what are
its functions (karmaNaa kim labhate), how a praising hymn or a narrative in
a hymn is in fact an injunction to perform a ritual (arthavaada), the
spirit or  'psychological' effect (jnaana) of a ritual , the relative
significance (praadhaanya) of the performance (karma) or the spirit
(jnaana) of the ritual (i.e. can  rituals be given up if their spirit is
achieved through other means or are there no substitutes for the ritual to
get its effect ?). Different schools of Vedanta take different positions
with regard to these relative significances etc.

3. What is interesting is, not all Bhakti schools downplay the
significance of rituals. In fact, Vi?i???dvaita and Dvaita stand opposed to
Advaita in this aspect.



On Wed, Sep 21, 2016 at 9:43 AM, Michaels, Axel <michaels at asia-europe.uni-
heidelberg.de> wrote:

> Dear all,
>
>
>
> in my recent book ?Homo ritualis?Hindu Rituals and Ist Significance for
> Ritual Theory? (OUP, 2016, ch. 9), I have elaborated on the relation of
> P?rvam?m??s? and the practice of ritual as exemplified in the Arthasa?graha
> and other texts.
>
>
>
> Best,
>
> Axel Michaels
>
>
>
> *Von: *INDOLOGY <indology-bounces at list.indology.info> im Auftrag von
> "Olivelle, J P" <jpo at austin.utexas.edu>
> *Datum: *Dienstag, 20. September 2016 um 09:53
> *An: *patrick mccartney <psdmccartney at gmail.com>
> *Cc: *"indology at list.indology.info" <indology at list.indology.info>
> *Betreff: *Re: [INDOLOGY] m?m??s?
>
>
>
> Try, M?m????ny?yaprak??a edited and translated by Edgerton.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Sep 19, 2016, at 10:45 PM, patrick mccartney <psdmccartney at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>
>
> Dear Friends,
>
>
>
> I find myself intrigued by the idea that there are people today compelled
> to carry on the karmak???a rituals.
>
>
>
> I read a brief passage that alludes to the m?m??s? thought-world as
> providing textual evidence and injunctions for this practice of reenacting
> scriptural commandments, which were originally meant for a group of people
> in a different time and place. However, it only mentions m?m??s? and does
> not mention any specific author or text.
>
>
>
> I would like to read this text but, as I know very little about m?m??s? I
> do not really know where to start. I thought I might find some help here in
> locating the passages I seek.
>
>
>
> Thank you for your help.
>
>
>
>
> All the best,
>
> Patrick McCartney, PhD
>
> Fellow
>
> School of Culture, History & Language
> College of the Asia-Pacific
> The Australian National University
> Canberra, Australia, 0200
>
>
> Skype - psdmccartney
>
> Phone + Whatsapp:  +61 414 954 748
>
> Twitter - @psdmccartney
>
>
>
> academia <https://anu-au.academia.edu/patrickmccartney>
>
> ?
>
> Linkedin
> <https://www.linkedin.com/profile/view?id=241756978&trk=nav_responsive_tab_profile>
>
>
>
> #yogabodyANU2016 symposium
> <http://chl.anu.edu.au/news-events/events/658/yoga-and-body-past-and-present-symposium?#tab>
>
> <http://chl.anu.edu.au/news-events/events/658/yoga-and-body-past-and-present-symposium?#tab>
>
>
>
> Ep1 - Imagining Sanskrit Land <https://youtu.be/jMi7tkPBbJ4>
>
>
>
> Ep 2 - Total-am <https://youtu.be/7tAp8m9RHPU>
>
>
>
> Ep 3 - Jalam ? Chillum <https://youtu.be/cLZeuCT_mwQ>
>
>
>
> Ep 4 - It's Time to get Married
> <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_B3un7aHEAc>
>
>
>
> A Day in our Ashram
> <https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=ek+din+hamaare+ashram+mein>
>
>
>
> Stop animation short film of Shakuntala
> <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LVqBD_2P4Pg>
>
>
>
> Forced to Clean Human Waste <http://youtu.be/y3XfjbwqC_g>
>
>
>
> One of my favourite song
> <http://trinityroots.bandcamp.com/track/all-we-be>s
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
> committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
> unsubscribe)
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
> committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
> unsubscribe)
>



-- 
Nagaraj Paturi

Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.

Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies

FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of  Liberal Education,

(Pune, Maharashtra, INDIA )


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From clemency.montelle at canterbury.ac.nz  Wed Sep 21 09:10:15 2016
From: clemency.montelle at canterbury.ac.nz (Clemency Montelle)
Date: Wed, 21 Sep 16 09:10:15 +0000
Subject: [INDOLOGY] "Discovering De Jong" Conference at Canterbury University, New Zealand, November 23-24 2016
Message-ID: <373FE003EA3D2949BCC16219C67CBBF77FBC9CCC@UCEXMBX04-I.canterbury.ac.nz>

Dear Colleagues,


[cid:d51cc096-3bb5-23ce-c35f-aed270644b32]



I'm delighted to announce an upcoming conference dedicated to the De Jong Collection, the archives and books of the distinguished scholar in Buddhist studies and South Asian religions Jan Willem de Jong, which was acquired by the University of Canterbury, New Zealand, in 2000 (http://library.canterbury.ac.nz/collserv/dejong.shtml).

"Discovering De Jong" will take place on November 23-24, 2016 on the University of Canterbury campus, Christchurch New Zealand.

The keynote will be given by Prof Paul Harrison (George Edwin Burnell Professor of Religious Studies, Stanford University)  entitled "Jan Willem De Jong: The Reviewer Reviewed".

Other presentations relating to aspects of the collection will be made by Joanna Condon, Simon Daisley, Elizabeth Guthrie-Higbee, Royce Wiles, Jane Buckingham, Arin Basu, Jambugahapitiya Dhammaloka,  myself, and several others.

Please contact me if you wish to make a conference contribution.

There will also be an open panel discussion about the guardianship of such collections now and for the future.

The conference dinner will be on the evening of Wednesday 23rd November.

We welcome you and your colleagues to come!  Please circulate the announcement and don't hesitate to send me any questions!

With best wishes,
Clemency

----
Dr Clemency Montelle
http://www.math.canterbury.ac.nz/~c.montelle/
School of Mathematics and Statistics
University of Canterbury | Te Whare Wananga o Waitaha
Private Bag 4800, Christchurch 8140
NEW ZEALAND


This email may be confidential and subject to legal privilege, it may
not reflect the views of the University of Canterbury, and it is not
guaranteed to be virus free. If you are not an intended recipient,
please notify the sender immediately and erase all copies of the message
and any attachments.

Please refer to http://www.canterbury.ac.nz/emaildisclaimer for more
information.


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From whitakjl at wfu.edu  Wed Sep 21 12:55:06 2016
From: whitakjl at wfu.edu (Jarrod Whitaker)
Date: Wed, 21 Sep 16 08:55:06 -0400
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Sarvanukramani
In-Reply-To: <mailman.399.1474449087.17678.indology_list.indology.info@list.indology.info>
Message-ID: <ea66aebd-3c33-c8d3-c2c7-a7feb55c0b2b@wfu.edu>

Does anyone have a pdf. copy of the following (and would you please 
email it to me):

Katyayana's Sarvanukramani of the Rigveda with extracts from 
Shadgurusishya's Commentary Entitled Vedarthadipika, edited by A. A. 
Macdonell (Oxford: Clarendon Press, 1886).

Cheers
JW

Jarrod Whitaker, Ph.D.
Associate Professor,
Graduate Program Director,
Department for the Study of Religions.

Faculty, Department of Women's,
Gender and Sexuality Studies.

Wake Forest University
P.O. Box 7212
Winston-Salem, NC 27109
whitakjl at wfu.edu
p 336.758.4162







From whitakjl at wfu.edu  Wed Sep 21 13:05:04 2016
From: whitakjl at wfu.edu (Jarrod Whitaker)
Date: Wed, 21 Sep 16 09:05:04 -0400
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Got it! Re: Sarvanukramani
In-Reply-To: <mailman.399.1474449087.17678.indology_list.indology.info@list.indology.info>
Message-ID: <561172f3-fb44-699d-b75c-2089f5112d4d@wfu.edu>

...within 3 mins.

It's available here for download.
http://www.new.dli.ernet.in/handle/2015/345026

Thank you!

Cheers
JW

Jarrod Whitaker, Ph.D.
Associate Professor,
Graduate Program Director,
Department for the Study of Religions.

Faculty, Department of Women's,
Gender and Sexuality Studies.

Wake Forest University
P.O. Box 7212
Winston-Salem, NC 27109
whitakjl at wfu.edu
p 336.758.4162







From jknutson at hawaii.edu  Wed Sep 21 23:37:22 2016
From: jknutson at hawaii.edu (Jesse Knutson)
Date: Wed, 21 Sep 16 13:37:22 -1000
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Oberlin College: Assistant Professor of South Asian Religions and Gender, Sexuality, and Feminist Studies
Message-ID: <CAAiVBEV1ABSj4+SnEk0_zMTCN=Aij73RXvn87HfV9WYqYTAoiA@mail.gmail.com>

FYI:

Assistant Professor of South Asian Religions and Gender, Sexuality, and
Feminist Studies

The Department of Religion and Program in Gender, Sexuality, and Feminist
Studies at Oberlin College invite applications for a full-time,
tenure-track faculty position in the College of Arts and Sciences. Initial
appointment to this position will be for a term of three years, beginning
fall semester 2017 and will carry the rank of Assistant Professor

https://jobs.oberlin.edu/postings/3522
-- 
Jesse Ross Knutson PhD
Assistant Professor of Sanskrit and Bengali, Department of Indo-Pacific
Languages and Literatures
University of Hawai'i at M?noa
461 Spalding


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From karin.preisendanz at univie.ac.at  Thu Sep 22 01:12:36 2016
From: karin.preisendanz at univie.ac.at (Karin.Preisendanz)
Date: Thu, 22 Sep 16 03:12:36 +0200
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Post-doc position in Pre-modern South Asian Studies (Indology) at the University of Vienna, Austria
In-Reply-To: <d6b2122762e663e8202f41a97b4e0db2@webmail2016.univie.ac.at>
Message-ID: <dc6a746c7949f7adcdf1e46a36664ae8@webmail2016.univie.ac.at>

Dear colleagues,

The University of Vienna is advertising a post-doc position 
(Universit?tsassistent/in ; University Assistant) in Pre-modern South 
Asian Studies (Indology) at the Department of South Asian, Tibetan and 
Buddhist Studies.

For further details, see the attachments in German and English. Both 
texts can also be found on the website of the University's Job Center at 
http://bit.ly/2d1PTGA. In the top left corner of the page, you can 
switch between the German and English versions. Applications may be 
submitted digitally via the Job Center no later than November 1, 2016.

Please publicize this advertisement at your institution and forward it 
to qualified candidates.

With best regards,

Karin Preisendanz
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From dchakra at hotmail.de  Thu Sep 22 05:17:18 2016
From: dchakra at hotmail.de (Dr. Debabrata Chakrabarti)
Date: Thu, 22 Sep 16 05:17:18 +0000
Subject: [INDOLOGY] WG: Post-doc position in Pre-modern South Asian Studies (Indology) at the University of Vienna, Austria
In-Reply-To: <dc6a746c7949f7adcdf1e46a36664ae8@webmail2016.univie.ac.at>
Message-ID: <HKXPR03MB05341265594A6F5328E17BAFD9C90@HKXPR03MB0534.apcprd03.prod.outlook.com>


Dear Indology List,

Please read the following announcement of the University Assistant (post-doc) position at the Vienna University,  South Asian, Tibetan and Buddhist Studies

forwarded to me by Prof. Karin Presendanz, Director of the Department.

Regards

Debabrata Chakrabarti

???This body is like a musical instrument; what you hear depends upon how you play it.??? ??? Anandamayi Ma

???Inside every human being there exists a special heaven, whole and unbroken.??? - Paracelsus

________________________________
Von: INDOLOGY <indology-bounces at list.indology.info> im Auftrag von Karin.Preisendanz <karin.preisendanz at univie.ac.at>
Gesendet: Donnerstag, 22. September 2016 06:42
An: INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
Betreff: [INDOLOGY] Post-doc position in Pre-modern South Asian Studies (Indology) at the University of Vienna, Austria

Dear colleagues,

The University of Vienna is advertising a post-doc position
(Universit?tsassistent/in ; University Assistant) in Pre-modern South
Asian Studies (Indology) at the Department of South Asian, Tibetan and
Buddhist Studies.

For further details, see the attachments in German and English. Both
texts can also be found on the website of the University's Job Center at
http://bit.ly/2d1PTGA. In the top left corner of the page, you can
switch between the German and English versions. Applications may be
submitted digitally via the Job Center no later than November 1, 2016.

Please publicize this advertisement at your institution and forward it
to qualified candidates.

With best regards,

Karin Preisendanz




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From arjunsr1987 at gmail.com  Thu Sep 22 06:37:57 2016
From: arjunsr1987 at gmail.com (Arjuna S R)
Date: Thu, 22 Sep 16 12:07:57 +0530
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Manipal University - Mahabharata Project job notification
Message-ID: <CAOy-tFTa0NhmcB5oHuULbaLUoFhP3QoymQRXw+TAWi+Dg0ME6Q@mail.gmail.com>

Dear all,



*Applications invited for the position of Research Associate in Mahabharata
content and context based tagging project. *



*Young research scholars in Sanskrit studies are preferred for the position
of Research Associate at Dvaita Philosophy Resource Centre (DPRC), Dept of
European Studies (DES) at Manipal University (MU) from October 2016. *


For more and detailed info, please refer to the attachment.

-- 
Regards,


*Arjuna S.R.*

*RESEARCH COORDINATOR*
Dvaita Philosophy Resource Centre (DPRC)
Department of European Studies (DES)
Manipal University
Behind Post office,
Manipal - 576104

Phone: 0820 - 2923053
Mobile: +91 - 7676599990


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From mailmealakendudas at rediffmail.com  Thu Sep 22 11:07:14 2016
From: mailmealakendudas at rediffmail.com (alakendu das)
Date: Thu, 22 Sep 16 11:07:14 +0000
Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_[INDOLOGY]_m=C4=ABm=C4=81=E1=B9=83s?=
In-Reply-To: <CAJGj9eZSaXhtahSohzMz6Lp-nGVEngcAxNEfrKE7iVyKs1ySng@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1474443439.S.26862.3764.f4-235-189.1474542434.17075@webmail.rediffmail.com>







????????

?







 Referring to your 3rd point in your earlier mail,where you have stated something like this- ' 'Not all bhakti schools were opposed to Rituals..... even the VishishtaAdvaitya school were opposed to the Adwaitya ..etc. ' I would like to add that even  Adwaityists were not always opposed to Rituals  and worshipping the Shaguna Brahmana.   A staunch Adwaityist like Madhusuadan Saraswati ,in his book 'ADWAITYA-SIDDHI' describes the  pristine beauty of a Lord Krishna idol in the following lines -...



        PitamvaraDaranaBimbaAdharOshtat PurnenduSundaraMukhad Arabinda Netrat krishnat parat kimApi tatwam Aham Na Jane.'



                         Examples can also be cited from the compositions of Shankara where he describes the lrd Krishn'a existence as 'satyam Gyanam Anantam Nitya' as well as 'Goshtha PranganaNiranganaLola Alayasam etc.....







                                                       ALAKENDU DAS

?











?





















































_______________________________________________



INDOLOGY mailing list



INDOLOGY at list.indology.info



indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee)



http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe)







?













_______________________________________________



INDOLOGY mailing list



INDOLOGY at list.indology.info



indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee)



http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe)





-- 

Nagaraj Paturi?Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.?Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies?FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of??Liberal Education,?(Pune, Maharashtra,?INDIA?)???



_______________________________________________



INDOLOGY mailing list



INDOLOGY at list.indology.info



indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee)



http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe)



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From Palaniappa at aol.com  Thu Sep 22 16:12:33 2016
From: Palaniappa at aol.com (Sudalaimuthu Palaniappan)
Date: Thu, 22 Sep 16 11:12:33 -0500
Subject: =?utf-8?Q?N=C4=ABlak=C4=93ci_verses_829_and_830?=
Message-ID: <F3BC1F5E-2D09-426F-AADE-0EA0BA94CC53@aol.com>

Dear Indologists,

I would appreciate if anyone can share the PDF of verses 829 and 830 with commentaries from two the editions - (1) A. Chakravarti and (2) Po. V?. C?macuntara??r.

Thank you in advance.

Regards,
Palaniappan




From nagarajpaturi at gmail.com  Thu Sep 22 19:27:06 2016
From: nagarajpaturi at gmail.com (Nagaraj Paturi)
Date: Fri, 23 Sep 16 00:57:06 +0530
Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_[INDOLOGY]_m=C4=ABm=C4=81=E1=B9=83s?=
In-Reply-To: <1474443439.S.26862.3764.f4-235-189.1474542434.17075@webmail.rediffmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAJGj9ebhEiwAtYtLMXT=WZPr=U4DOCZZiYKuNJXpkjbHqk5DaQ@mail.gmail.com>

My statements about Advaita vis-?-vis the two Bhakti schools Vi?i???dvaita
and Dvaita were not about ritual in a general , broad sense covering p?j?
rituals and other rituals of 'Hinduism'. It was about karma in the sense of
yaj?a and other rituals covered by m?m?ms?.

The debate is around karma - j??na .

sagu?a - nirgu?a debate is different from this.

Advaita's position is that the compulsion of karma-performance as ordained
by m?m?ms?. does not apply to a(n Advaita sanny?si)

Vi?i???dvaita and Dvaita say that even a sanny?si has to perform karma.

A comparison of commentaries of Sankara , Ramanuja and Madhva on Bh G 3-17
is a very good sample for the three positions.


On Thu, Sep 22, 2016 at 4:37 PM, alakendu das <
mailmealakendudas at rediffmail.com> wrote:

>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Referring to your 3rd point in your earlier mail,where you have stated
> something like this- ' 'Not all bhakti schools were opposed to Rituals.....
> even the VishishtaAdvaitya school were opposed to the Adwaitya ..etc. ' I
> would like to add that even Adwaityists were not always opposed to Rituals
> and worshipping the Shaguna Brahmana. A staunch Adwaityist like Madhusuadan
> Saraswati ,in his book 'ADWAITYA-SIDDHI' describes the pristine beauty of a
> Lord Krishna idol in the following lines -...
>
> PitamvaraDaranaBimbaAdharOshtat PurnenduSundaraMukhad Arabinda Netrat
> krishnat parat kimApi tatwam Aham Na Jane.'
>
> Examples can also be cited from the compositions of Shankara where he
> describes the lrd Krishn'a existence as 'satyam Gyanam Anantam Nitya' as
> well as 'Goshtha PranganaNiranganaLola Alayasam etc.....
>
>
>
> ALAKENDU DAS
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
>
> INDOLOGY mailing list
>
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
> committee)
>
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
> unsubscribe)
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
>
> INDOLOGY mailing list
>
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
> committee)
>
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
> unsubscribe)
>
>
> --
> Nagaraj Paturi Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA. Former Senior Professor of
> Cultural Studies FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of  Liberal
> Education, (Pune, Maharashtra, INDIA )
>
> _______________________________________________
>
> INDOLOGY mailing list
>
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
> committee)
>
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
> unsubscribe)
>
>


-- 
Nagaraj Paturi

Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.

Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies

FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of  Liberal Education,

(Pune, Maharashtra, INDIA )


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From Palaniappa at aol.com  Fri Sep 23 18:37:28 2016
From: Palaniappa at aol.com (Sudalaimuthu Palaniappan)
Date: Fri, 23 Sep 16 13:37:28 -0500
Subject: Swadeshi Indology Conference
Message-ID: <0FE84BD0-B7D7-4B95-A6D8-FBF4AA0C5995@aol.com>

Dear Indologists,

You may be interested in the following links.

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/chennai/IIT-M-meet-on-swadeshi-Indology-irks-academic-community/articleshow/53135190.cms <http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/chennai/IIT-M-meet-on-swadeshi-Indology-irks-academic-community/articleshow/53135190.cms> 

http://www.thenewsminute.com/article/rajiv-malhotras-closed-door-swadeshi-indology-conference-iit-madras-irks-students-46140 <http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/chennai/IIT-M-meet-on-swadeshi-Indology-irks-academic-community/articleshow/53135190.cms>

https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&pid=forums&srcid=MTQyNTE0MTcxODQxNzMxMDM3MDQBMTM3OTEwNTE1ODk3OTk1ODQyODcBdG9sWDl1OExCZ0FKATAuMQEBdjI <https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&pid=forums&srcid=MTQyNTE0MTcxODQxNzMxMDM3MDQBMTM3OTEwNTE1ODk3OTk1ODQyODcBdG9sWDl1OExCZ0FKATAuMQEBdjI> 

Several presentations at the conference have been posted as YouTube videos.

The comments of the readers/viewers are interesting.

Regards,
Palaniappan




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From ambapradeep at gmail.com  Sat Sep 24 03:24:42 2016
From: ambapradeep at gmail.com (Amba Kulkarni)
Date: Sat, 24 Sep 16 08:54:42 +0530
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Announcement of a workshop on Sanskrit Computational Linguistics and Digital Libraries
Message-ID: <CAFffahAjVuPARAtOii__axQzUqmtW=WhcUGrNsVokVFj5EXA6Q@mail.gmail.com>

Dear list,

I am glad to inform you that during the 13th International Conference on
NLP at IIT-BHU, Varanasi, a workshop is being organised on
Bridging the gap between Sanskrit Computational Linguistics tools and
management of Sanskrit Digital Libraries

on 18th Dec 2016.

For more details  please visit

 http://cse.iitkgp.ac.in/resgrp/cnerg/sclws/
-- Amba Kulkarni

Fellow,
Indian Institute of Advanced Study,
Shimla

? ?? ?????: ?????? ????? ??????: ll
Let noble thoughts come to us from every side.
- Rig Veda, I-89-i.
Prof. (On leave)
Department of Sanskrit Studies
University of Hyderabad
Prof. C.R. Rao Road
Hyderabad-500 046

(91) 040 23133802(off)

http://sanskrit.uohyd.ac.in/scl <http://sanskrit.uohyd.ernet.in/scl>
http://sanskrit.uohyd.ac.in/faculty/amba
<http://sanskrit.uohyd.ernet.in/faculty/amba>


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From baums at lmu.de  Sat Sep 24 10:41:56 2016
From: baums at lmu.de (Stefan Baums)
Date: Sat, 24 Sep 16 12:41:56 +0200
Subject: [INDOLOGY] [sagarjournal@gmail.com: Sagar Journal Call for Papers]
Message-ID: <20160924104156.GC7136@deepthought>

----- Forwarded message from Sagar Journal <sagarjournal at gmail.com> -----

Date: Fri, 23 Sep 2016 23:16:37 -0500
From: Sagar Journal <sagarjournal at gmail.com>
To: "indology-owner at list.indology.info" <indology-owner at list.indology.info>
Subject: Sagar Journal Call for Papers

SAGAR: A South Asia Research Journal is now accepting full-length research
articles and translations for its next print volume, to be published in
Spring 2017. The theme of this issue is ?Space.? We welcome papers that:

   -

   Analyze South Asian history, culture, politics, arts, and society in
   comparison with other regions of the world
   -

   Look at space in terms of scope, latitude, margin, position, range, and
   location
   -

   Engage different kinds of narratives that can be located in but not
   restricted to local, global, (trans)national, institutional,
   digital/virtual, media, performative, literary, domestic, religious,
   political, cultural, social, ecological, and communal spaces


The deadline for submission is December 1, 2016. Please send your
manuscripts or questions to sagarjournal at gmail.com. Submissions should be:

   -

   8,000-10,000 words and include a 250-word abstract
   -

   Translations should be 3,000-6,000 words, preceded by a 1,200-1,500 word
   introduction contextualizing the text or excerpt.
   -

   Manuscripts are expected to follow APA guidelines. Full citation article
   information should be included in footnotes.
   -

   The entire article, including block quotations and notes, should be
   double-spaced.

Submissions should include:

   -

   Two files in Microsoft Word or PDF format. Both files should include:


   1.

   Article submission
   2.

   Publishable images with credits, if any. Each photograph is equivalent
   to 250 words.
   3.

   For translations, a scanned copy of the original source text.


   -

   One of the files should also include a title page with the author?s name
   and email address as well as a 100-word biography of the author. The second
   file will be for blind submission and cannot contain the name or contact
   information of the author.


Sagar publishes innovative academic writing in the humanities and social
sciences of South Asia, as well as critical translations. It was
established in 1993 and is published annually by the South Asia Institute
at the University of Texas at Austin. Submissions for our print issue are
blindly evaluated by an editorial board of advanced scholars in the field.

Sagar is listed on EBSCO databases, which are used for academic research by
tens of thousands of institutions worldwide. This will substantially
enhance the visibility of articles published in the journal.


Charlotte Giles, Paromita Pain, and Saleha Parveiz

Chief Editors, *Sagar: A South Asia Research Journal *

sagarjournal at gmail.com

sagarjournal.org

-- 

*Sagar: A South Asia Research Journal*
University of Texas at Austin
South Asia Institute
WCH 4.132, Mailcode G9300
Austin, TX, 78712
ph: 512-471-3550
http://sagarjournal.org/

----- End forwarded message -----





From wujastyk at gmail.com  Sat Sep 24 19:22:39 2016
From: wujastyk at gmail.com (Dominik Wujastyk)
Date: Sat, 24 Sep 16 13:22:39 -0600
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Fwd: Catalogue of Indian Astronomical Instruments A-E
In-Reply-To: <DB6PR0402MB29365035201A9DD3FDD0C621B8C90@DB6PR0402MB2936.eurprd04.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <CAKdt-CeBevMCPK4H1Cbf+Pe93+sYPH_+7v2Ueih79k3ZU2ZdKw@mail.gmail.com>

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: S.R. Sarma <SR at sarma.de>
Date: 21 September 2016 at 23:52
Subject: Catalogue of Indian Astronomical Instruments A-E
To:


On the occasion of the Autumnal Equinox (or, rather September Equinox) I
have added the series C (Sanskrit astrolabes with multiple plates), D
(Sanskrit astrolabes with single plates) and E (astrolabes reworked in
Sanskrit) to the online Catalogue.

You may access the Catalogue by visiting my homepage at www.SRSarma.in and
then by clicking on ?Catalogue of Indian Astronomical Instruments? in the
menu.   There you will get an option either to view it online or to
download a pdf file. If you have already downloaded the earlier pdf
version, please replace it with the new one.

Series A-E cover all the known astrolabes produced in India. The next three
series will deal with Celestial Globes, which carry engravings such as the
one below.

Warm greetings,

S. R. Sarma

Hoehenstrasse 28 * 40227 Duesseldorf * Germany



Autumnal Equinox (and Virgo waving to you) on a celestial globe


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From wujastyk at gmail.com  Sun Sep 25 15:49:01 2016
From: wujastyk at gmail.com (Dominik Wujastyk)
Date: Sun, 25 Sep 16 09:49:01 -0600
Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_[INDOLOGY]_The_text_of_B=C4=81lagop=C4=81lastuti=3F?=
In-Reply-To: <CAB3-dzdVX0A9Fyf0W5N7kBBBBZY1JjLb2g0ZUxBh2tp9MZQJYQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAKdt-Cdurecxv4QEOSj2kuQ=e7C=kuiVdSAnWCQ8X+G8RBQq=g@mail.gmail.com>

Dear Madhav, yes, it was edited and translated by Frances Wilson and
published by Brill in 1973 (from memory).  Proper bibliography in my "Love
of K???a" paper. [PDF
<https://www.academia.edu/1907164/The_Love_of_K%E1%B9%9B%E1%B9%A3%E1%B9%87a_in_Poems_and_Paintings>
]

--
Professor Dominik Wujastyk* <http://ualberta.academia.edu/DominikWujastyk>
Singhmar Chair in Classical Indian Society and Polity
Department of History and Classics <http://historyandclassics.ualberta.ca/>
University of Alberta, Canada

<https://mail.google.com/mail/u/0/goog_1525257691>
?sas.ualberta.ca?


On 20 September 2016 at 15:32, Madhav Deshpande <mmdesh at umich.edu> wrote:

> Is the text of B?lagop?lastuti (by L?l??uka) available in any form?  One
> of my students needs access to this text.  There are scattered manuscript
> folios available on the web, but I don't see an edition or an e-text
> available.  Nothing listed on the WorldCat.  Any help will be deeply
> appreciated.
>
> Madhav Deshpande
> Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA
>
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
> committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
> unsubscribe)
>


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From mmdesh at umich.edu  Sun Sep 25 16:21:24 2016
From: mmdesh at umich.edu (Madhav Deshpande)
Date: Sun, 25 Sep 16 12:21:24 -0400
Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_[INDOLOGY]_The_text_of_B=C4=81lagop=C4=81lastuti=3F?=
In-Reply-To: <CAKdt-Cdurecxv4QEOSj2kuQ=e7C=kuiVdSAnWCQ8X+G8RBQq=g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAB3-dzeU4A6sBE1d4pOteyH=BCTWO=xUqLb-dXbjHp+N90TZ5Q@mail.gmail.com>

Thanks, Dominik.  I found this publication in our university library.  Best,

Madhav

On Sun, Sep 25, 2016 at 11:49 AM, Dominik Wujastyk <wujastyk at gmail.com>
wrote:

> Dear Madhav, yes, it was edited and translated by Frances Wilson and
> published by Brill in 1973 (from memory).  Proper bibliography in my "Love
> of K???a" paper. [PDF
> <https://www.academia.edu/1907164/The_Love_of_K%E1%B9%9B%E1%B9%A3%E1%B9%87a_in_Poems_and_Paintings>
> ]
>
> --
> Professor Dominik Wujastyk* <http://ualberta.academia.edu/DominikWujastyk>
> Singhmar Chair in Classical Indian Society and Polity
> Department of History and Classics
> <http://historyandclassics.ualberta.ca/>
> University of Alberta, Canada
>
> <https://mail.google.com/mail/u/0/goog_1525257691>
> ?sas.ualberta.ca?
>
>
> On 20 September 2016 at 15:32, Madhav Deshpande <mmdesh at umich.edu> wrote:
>
>> Is the text of B?lagop?lastuti (by L?l??uka) available in any form?  One
>> of my students needs access to this text.  There are scattered manuscript
>> folios available on the web, but I don't see an edition or an e-text
>> available.  Nothing listed on the WorldCat.  Any help will be deeply
>> appreciated.
>>
>> Madhav Deshpande
>> Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
>> committee)
>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
>> unsubscribe)
>>
>
>


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From mailmealakendudas at rediffmail.com  Tue Sep 27 10:56:09 2016
From: mailmealakendudas at rediffmail.com (alakendu das)
Date: Tue, 27 Sep 16 10:56:09 +0000
Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_[INDOLOGY]_m=C4=ABm=C4=81=E1=B9=83s?=
In-Reply-To: <CAJGj9ebhEiwAtYtLMXT=WZPr=U4DOCZZiYKuNJXpkjbHqk5DaQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1474572470.S.12710.25583.f4-234-246.1474973769.23923@webmail.rediffmail.com>



 I regret my  inadvertant digression from the Karma -Jnyana debate. 



             However, in this respect, may I kindly  take this opportunity and   make some references to Swami Vivekananda's viewpoint on Karma-Jnyana as enunciated by him .In his book KARMA-YOGA, he writes-''The Karma-Yogi need nOt believe in any doctrine whatsoever ....He has got his own special aim of realising selflessness and he has to work it out himself.Every moment of his life must be realisation because he has to solve by work ,without the help of doctrine or theory, the very same problem  to which the jnani applies his reason and inspiration and the Bhakta his love'( Ref- CW Vol 1 P.309).



                  In fact, Swamiji  evolved a much broader, democratic , flexible concept of Karma Yoga.a little bit in contrast with Shankara, though the ultimate goal for both remained the same. Swamiji innovated a path for the  Adwaitya aspirant who ,even after attaining Satta -Suddhi( i.e purification of mind, as spoken of by Shankara) and Jnyana-Yoga , can still practice Karma-Yoga. Here karma -yoga   is being seen  with an objective intent,and Jnyana-Yoga with a subjective intent.

                 

                     Swamiji's views find immeadiate reflection in Chapt 13 of SmG ,which reads as-By meditation, some behold self in the self ,others by Jnyana-Yoga, and others by Karma-Yoga' 



                                    ALAKENDU DAS         





























































































_______________________________________________







INDOLOGY mailing list







INDOLOGY at list.indology.info







indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee)







http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe)















?



























_______________________________________________







INDOLOGY mailing list







INDOLOGY at list.indology.info







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-- 



Nagaraj Paturi?Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.?Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies?FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of??Liberal Education,?(Pune, Maharashtra,?INDIA?)???







_______________________________________________







INDOLOGY mailing list







INDOLOGY at list.indology.info







indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee)







http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe)









-- 

Nagaraj Paturi?Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.?Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies?FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of??Liberal Education,?(Pune, Maharashtra,?INDIA?)???





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From tlighthiser at gmail.com  Tue Sep 27 17:24:28 2016
From: tlighthiser at gmail.com (Timothy P. Lighthiser)
Date: Tue, 27 Sep 16 11:24:28 -0600
Subject: =?utf-8?Q?[INDOLOGY]_PDF_Request:_Sharma's_Elements_of_Poetry_in_the_Mah=C4=81bh=C4=81rata_(1964)?=
Message-ID: <CABY8hpL2+4jd9vwC97zR=HqDzi3Fn2vaMJ5rR_ufwDYMbDqtAg@mail.gmail.com>

Hello!

Does anyone happen to have a copy that they'd be able and willing to share?

Thanks in advance!


t


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From manufrancis at gmail.com  Wed Sep 28 08:37:25 2016
From: manufrancis at gmail.com (Manu Francis)
Date: Wed, 28 Sep 16 10:37:25 +0200
Subject: [INDOLOGY] 84 lakhs of living beings
Message-ID: <CANVHsm4266z_Y1HqVCu3q0NFFdDiWdcpuYGJwJ1H6h6NrLtbBQ@mail.gmail.com>

Dear Colleagues,

I am reading for the moment Tamil commentaries to the *Tirumuruk???uppa?ai*.

One of them reads about the first word of the poem (*ulakam*, "the world"
in bold below):

*ulakam ulaki?ka??u??a e? pattu n??ku ila?cam c?vap?ta?ka??kiya
uyirttokutika?.*
*"**ulakam *(means) the group of living beings which are the 84 lakhs of
classes of living beings which are in the world."

Another comments as follows upon the first two words of the poem (*ulakam
uvappa*, "while/so that the world rejoices" in bold below):

*ulaka muvappa** e?patu l?kal?ka?ka?um e?pattu n?lu le?cam ???um?kka?u?
canto[vi]ttaiy a?aintu pi?aikkum pa?i. *Which I tentatively translate as:

"The phrase *ulaka muvappa* (means) the manner in which (in) the worlds (
*l?kal?ka?ka?um*) the eighty four lakhs of kinds (*???u* < *??u*, litteraly
?way?) of people obtain salvation after obtaining knowledge (*vittai* =
*vidy?*) of the poem (*cant?* < *chandas*, ?sacred hymn; metre?)."


The mention of the 84 lakhs of living beings appears to be just a way to
state, as the other commentaries do, that all living beings rejoice.


I have found references to this number of 84 lakhs in the Maitr?ya??ya
Upani?ad (see van Buitenen, 1962, p. 102 and 129) as well as in the
R?m?ya?a of Tulsidas, the Caitanyacarit?m?ta and in a 1499 CE inscription
from Gujarat.


Could any one point out to me other sources (P?r??as for instance) and,
especially, sources where the this total of 84 lakhs is detailed?


With a great many thanks in advance.

--

Emmanuel Francis
Charg? de recherche CNRS, Centre d'?tude de l'Inde et de l'Asie du Sud (UMR
8564, EHESS-CNRS, Paris)
http://ceias.ehess.fr/
http://ceias.ehess.fr/index.php?1725
http://rcsi.hypotheses.org/
Associate member, Centre for the Study of Manuscript Culture (SFB 950,
Universit?t Hamburg)
http://www.manuscript-cultures.uni-hamburg.de/index_e.html
https://cnrs.academia.edu/emmanuelfrancis


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From rpjain1903 at gmail.com  Wed Sep 28 11:46:26 2016
From: rpjain1903 at gmail.com (Rajeev P. Jain)
Date: Wed, 28 Sep 16 17:16:26 +0530
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Kishor Kumar Chakrabarti
Message-ID: <283C66EC-317B-40D2-80C3-9148741A9AF3@gmail.com>

Dear Indologists
Kindly let me know the current email ID of Prof. Kishor Kumar Chakrabarti, the author of Classical Indian Philosophy of Mind, A Nyaya Dualist Tradition.

Rajeev  Jain
10 A Rajniwas Marg 
Civil Lines
'ANANDA'-villa # 7
Delhi-110054 (INDIA)
(011)23983983






From jacob at fabularasa.dk  Wed Sep 28 12:05:19 2016
From: jacob at fabularasa.dk (jacob at fabularasa.dk)
Date: Wed, 28 Sep 16 14:05:19 +0200
Subject: [INDOLOGY] 84 lakhs of living beings
In-Reply-To: <CANVHsm4266z_Y1HqVCu3q0NFFdDiWdcpuYGJwJ1H6h6NrLtbBQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <6cfe9f9728cb931a680a9321c7331ba5@fabularasa.dk>

Dear Manu,

Garu?apur??a 2.49.13 reads:

catura??tilak?e?u ?ar?re?u ?ar?ri??m /
na m?nu?a? vin?nyatra tattvaj??nantu labhyate // GarP_2,49.13 //

Reference: 
http://gretil.sub.uni-goettingen.de/gretil/1_sanskr/3_purana/garup2_u.htm

Best,
Jacob

Jacob Schmidt-Madsen
PhD Fellow
Section of Indology (R.I.P.)
Faculty of Humanities
University of Copenhagen
Denmark

Manu Francis skrev den 2016-09-28 10:37:
> Dear Colleagues,
> 
> I am reading for the moment Tamil commentaries to the
> _Tirumuruk???uppa?ai_.
> 
> One of them reads about the first word of the poem (_ulakam_, "the
> world" in bold below):
> 
> _ULAKAM ulaki?ka??u??a e? pattu n??ku ila?cam
> c?vap?ta?ka??kiya uyirttokutika?._
> _"__ULAKAM _(means) the group of living beings which are the 84 lakhs
> of classes of living beings which are in the world."
> 
> Another comments as follows upon the first two words of the poem
> (_ulakam uvappa_, "while/so that the world rejoices" in bold below):
> 
> _ULAKA MUVAPPA__ e?patu l?kal?ka?ka?um e?pattu n?lu
> le?cam ???um?kka?u? canto[vi]ttaiy a?aintu pi?aikkum
> pa?i. _Which I tentatively translate as:
> 
> __"The phrase _ULAKA MUVAPPA__ _(means) the manner in which (in) the
> worlds (_l?kal?ka?ka?um_) the eighty four lakhs of kinds
> (_???u_ < _??u_, litteraly ?way?) of people obtain
> salvation after obtaining knowledge (_vittai_ = _vidy?_) of the poem
> (_cant?_ < _chandas_, ?sacred hymn; metre?)."
> 
> The mention of the 84 lakhs of living beings appears to be just a way
> to state, as the other commentaries do, that all living beings
> rejoice.
> 
> I have found references to this number of 84 lakhs in the
> Maitr?ya??ya Upani?ad (see van Buitenen, 1962, p. 102 and 129)
> as well as in the R?m?ya?a of Tulsidas, the Caitanyacarit?m?ta
> and in a 1499 CE inscription from Gujarat.
> 
> Could any one point out to me other sources (P?r??as for instance)
> and, especially, sources where the this total of 84 lakhs is detailed?
> 
> With a great many thanks in advance.
> 
> --
> 
> Emmanuel Francis
> Charg? de recherche CNRS, Centre d'?tude de l'Inde et de l'Asie du
> Sud (UMR 8564, EHESS-CNRS, Paris)
> http://ceias.ehess.fr/
> http://ceias.ehess.fr/index.php?1725 [1]
> http://rcsi.hypotheses.org/
> Associate member, Centre for the Study of Manuscript Culture (SFB 950,
> Universit?t Hamburg)
> http://www.manuscript-cultures.uni-hamburg.de/index_e.html [2]
> https://cnrs.academia.edu/emmanuelfrancis [3]
> 
> Links:
> ------
> [1] http://ceias.ehess.fr/index.php?1725
> [2] http://www.manuscript-cultures.uni-hamburg.de/index_e.html
> [3] https://cnrs.academia.edu/emmanuelfrancis
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing 
> committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options
> or unsubscribe)





From Ruth.Satinsky at unil.ch  Wed Sep 28 13:47:06 2016
From: Ruth.Satinsky at unil.ch (Ruth Satinsky Sieber)
Date: Wed, 28 Sep 16 13:47:06 +0000
Subject: [INDOLOGY] 84 lakhs of living beings
In-Reply-To: <6cfe9f9728cb931a680a9321c7331ba5@fabularasa.dk>
Message-ID: <4041F109-4AC7-47A7-BEBB-8587C686370F@unil.ch>

Dear Manu,

You might find something helpful in my article, "What can the lifespans of ??abha, Bharata, ?rey??sa, and Ara tell us about the History of the concept of Mount Meru?," in the International Journal of Jaina Studies (Online), Vol.11, No. 1 (2015) 1-24:

https://www.soas.ac.uk/research/publications/journals/ijjs/archive/international-journal-of-jaina-studies-ijjs-archive-2015.html

Best wishes,

Ruth Satinsky


On 28 Sep 2016, at 14:05, jacob at fabularasa.dk<mailto:jacob at fabularasa.dk> wrote:

Dear Manu,

Garu?apur??a 2.49.13 reads:

catura??tilak?e?u ?ar?re?u ?ar?ri??m /
na m?nu?a? vin?nyatra tattvaj??nantu labhyate // GarP_2,49.13 //

Reference: http://gretil.sub.uni-goettingen.de/gretil/1_sanskr/3_purana/garup2_u.htm

Best,
Jacob

Jacob Schmidt-Madsen
PhD Fellow
Section of Indology (R.I.P.)
Faculty of Humanities
University of Copenhagen
Denmark

Manu Francis skrev den 2016-09-28 10:37:
Dear Colleagues,
I am reading for the moment Tamil commentaries to the
_Tirumuruk???uppa?ai_.
One of them reads about the first word of the poem (_ulakam_, "the
world" in bold below):
_ULAKAM ulaki?ka??u??a e? pattu n??ku ila?cam
c?vap?ta?ka??kiya uyirttokutika?._
_"__ULAKAM _(means) the group of living beings which are the 84 lakhs
of classes of living beings which are in the world."
Another comments as follows upon the first two words of the poem
(_ulakam uvappa_, "while/so that the world rejoices" in bold below):
_ULAKA MUVAPPA__ e?patu l?kal?ka?ka?um e?pattu n?lu
le?cam ???um?kka?u? canto[vi]ttaiy a?aintu pi?aikkum
pa?i. _Which I tentatively translate as:
__"The phrase _ULAKA MUVAPPA__ _(means) the manner in which (in) the
worlds (_l?kal?ka?ka?um_) the eighty four lakhs of kinds
(_???u_ < _??u_, litteraly ?way?) of people obtain
salvation after obtaining knowledge (_vittai_ = _vidy?_) of the poem
(_cant?_ < _chandas_, ?sacred hymn; metre?)."
The mention of the 84 lakhs of living beings appears to be just a way
to state, as the other commentaries do, that all living beings
rejoice.
I have found references to this number of 84 lakhs in the
Maitr?ya??ya Upani?ad (see van Buitenen, 1962, p. 102 and 129)
as well as in the R?m?ya?a of Tulsidas, the Caitanyacarit?m?ta
and in a 1499 CE inscription from Gujarat.
Could any one point out to me other sources (P?r??as for instance)
and, especially, sources where the this total of 84 lakhs is detailed?
With a great many thanks in advance.
--
Emmanuel Francis
Charg? de recherche CNRS, Centre d'?tude de l'Inde et de l'Asie du
Sud (UMR 8564, EHESS-CNRS, Paris)
http://ceias.ehess.fr/
http://ceias.ehess.fr/index.php?1725 [1]
http://rcsi.hypotheses.org/
Associate member, Centre for the Study of Manuscript Culture (SFB 950,
Universit?t Hamburg)
http://www.manuscript-cultures.uni-hamburg.de/index_e.html [2]
https://cnrs.academia.edu/emmanuelfrancis [3]
Links:
------
[1] http://ceias.ehess.fr/index.php?1725
[2] http://www.manuscript-cultures.uni-hamburg.de/index_e.html
[3] https://cnrs.academia.edu/emmanuelfrancis
_______________________________________________
INDOLOGY mailing list
INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee)
http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options
or unsubscribe)

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From christophe.vielle at uclouvain.be  Wed Sep 28 14:12:08 2016
From: christophe.vielle at uclouvain.be (Christophe Vielle)
Date: Wed, 28 Sep 16 16:12:08 +0200
Subject: [INDOLOGY] 84 lakhs of living beings
In-Reply-To: <CANVHsm4266z_Y1HqVCu3q0NFFdDiWdcpuYGJwJ1H6h6NrLtbBQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <FD11BE1E-663D-47B8-BCF6-266464E627C7@uclouvain.be>

In the Prapa?cah?daya (12th-13th century AD?) first chapter on cosmology, the tanubhuvana-prakara?a, p. 2  ll. 3-4 ed. T. Ga?apati ??str?, TSS 45, 1915 (cf. https://archive.org/details/Trivandrum_Sanskrit_Series_TSS : said "not found" but it is there), one reads 84,000 instead of 8,400,000 : 

ja?gamaj?tivi?e?a? catura??tisahasravidha? | sth?varaj?tivi?e?a? catu??a??isahasravidha? |

The  number of 84 thousands is found for yojana's (ViP cr. ed. 2,2.8, MkP cr. ed.49.14 : the height of the Meru), years or, if I remember well, the legendary number of st?pa's established by A?oka; the more fabulous one of 84 lakhs appears for the sorts of ?sana's in the GhSa 2,1. I suppose that there are other examples of such kind.

Best wishes,
Christophe

> De: <jacob at fabularasa.dk>
> Objet: R?p : [INDOLOGY] 84 lakhs of living beings
> Date: 28 septembre 2016 14:05:19 UTC+2
> ?: Manu Francis <manufrancis at gmail.com>
> Cc: Indology <indology at list.indology.info>
> 
> Dear Manu,
> 
> Garu?apur??a 2.49.13 reads:
> 
> catura??tilak?e?u ?ar?re?u ?ar?ri??m /
> na m?nu?a? vin?nyatra tattvaj??nantu labhyate // GarP_2,49.13 //
> 
> Reference: http://gretil.sub.uni-goettingen.de/gretil/1_sanskr/3_purana/garup2_u.htm
> 
> Best,
> Jacob
> 
> Jacob Schmidt-Madsen
> PhD Fellow
> Section of Indology (R.I.P.)
> Faculty of Humanities
> University of Copenhagen
> Denmark

Le 28 sept. 2016 ? 10:37, Manu Francis <manufrancis at gmail.com> a ?crit :

> Dear Colleagues,
> 
> I am reading for the moment Tamil commentaries to the Tirumuruk???uppa?ai.
> 
> One of them reads about the first word of the poem (ulakam, "the world" in bold below):
> 
> ulakam ulaki?ka??u??a e? pattu n??ku ila?cam c?vap?ta?ka??kiya uyirttokutika?.
> "ulakam (means) the group of living beings which are the 84 lakhs of classes of living beings which are in the world."
> 
> Another comments as follows upon the first two words of the poem (ulakam uvappa, "while/so that the world rejoices" in bold below):
> 
> ulaka muvappa e?patu l?kal?ka?ka?um e?pattu n?lu le?cam ???um?kka?u? canto[vi]ttaiy a?aintu pi?aikkum pa?i. Which I tentatively translate as:
> 
> "The phrase ulaka muvappa (means) the manner in which (in) the worlds (l?kal?ka?ka?um) the eighty four lakhs of kinds (???u < ??u, litteraly ?way?) of people obtain salvation after obtaining knowledge (vittai = vidy?) of the poem (cant? < chandas, ?sacred hymn; metre?)."
> 
> 
> 
> The mention of the 84 lakhs of living beings appears to be just a way to state, as the other commentaries do, that all living beings rejoice.
> 
> 
> I have found references to this number of 84 lakhs in the Maitr?ya??ya Upani?ad (see van Buitenen, 1962, p. 102 and 129) as well as in the R?m?ya?a of Tulsidas, the Caitanyacarit?m?ta and in a 1499 CE inscription from Gujarat.
> 
> 
> 
> Could any one point out to me other sources (P?r??as for instance) and, especially, sources where the this total of 84 lakhs is detailed?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> With a great many thanks in advance.
> 
> --
> 
> Emmanuel Francis
> Charg? de recherche CNRS, Centre d'?tude de l'Inde et de l'Asie du Sud (UMR 8564, EHESS-CNRS, Paris)
> http://ceias.ehess.fr/
> http://ceias.ehess.fr/index.php?1725
> http://rcsi.hypotheses.org/
> Associate member, Centre for the Study of Manuscript Culture (SFB 950, Universit?t Hamburg)
> http://www.manuscript-cultures.uni-hamburg.de/index_e.html
> https://cnrs.academia.edu/emmanuelfrancis
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe)

???????????????????
Christophe Vielle
Louvain-la-Neuve



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From rmahoney at fastmail.com  Thu Sep 29 00:15:01 2016
From: rmahoney at fastmail.com (Richard Mahoney)
Date: Thu, 29 Sep 16 13:15:01 +1300
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Indica et Buddhica - Journals with Buddhist Studies material (EPUB &c. for e-book readers)
Message-ID: <20160929131501.00000580@fastmail.com>

Dear Colleagues,

For almost a year the current PDF file listing more than 650 journals
containing Buddhist Studies material has been available here:

  Journals with Buddhist Studies material (PDF)
  http://indica-et-buddhica.org/indica-et-buddhica-tabulae-current.pdf

>From now on this material will also be available in file formats
suitable for e-book readers, Adobe Digital Editions, Kindle, Calibre
&c.:

  Journals with Buddhist Studies material (EPUB)
  http://indica-et-buddhica.org/indica-et-buddhica-tabulae-current.epub

  Journals with Buddhist Studies material (MOBI)
  http://indica-et-buddhica.org/indica-et-buddhica-tabulae-current.mobi
 

Each of the titles in these files link directly to bibliographic
details on the Indica et Buddhica site, e.g.:

  Journal of the American Oriental Society
  http://indica-et-buddhica.org/tabulae/j/journal-of-the-american-oriental-society


Comments, corrections and additions are most welcome.



With best regards,

  Richard



-- 
Richard Mahoney | Indica et Buddhica

Littledene  Bay Road  Oxford  New Zealand
+64-3-312-1699  r.mahoney at indica-et-buddhica.org





From jpo at austin.utexas.edu  Thu Sep 29 14:17:17 2016
From: jpo at austin.utexas.edu (Olivelle, J P)
Date: Thu, 29 Sep 16 14:17:17 +0000
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Heath
Message-ID: <B249E785-707D-43CF-96C9-C4BEF2A686CD@austin.utexas.edu>

Can someone tell me how to download a PDF from files in the Hathi Trust? There is no obvious button, even when I log in.

Thanks.

Patrick




From wujastyk at gmail.com  Thu Sep 29 14:32:27 2016
From: wujastyk at gmail.com (Dominik Wujastyk)
Date: Thu, 29 Sep 16 08:32:27 -0600
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Heath
In-Reply-To: <B249E785-707D-43CF-96C9-C4BEF2A686CD@austin.utexas.edu>
Message-ID: <CAKdt-Cc7mOOwkwf1QdfsgjkAAHuX2RD1i8vFwA3U5a+OemKmmw@mail.gmail.com>

Dear Patrick,

The Hathi Trust puzzles me.  It's a major consortium of USA libraries that
has been busy digitizing books on a grand scale.  But almost everything
they have done is not available for consultation.  This is especially true
if you live outside the USA.   Personally, I have given up trying to use
the Hathi Trust's materials, because I repeatedly see desirable items in
their collection but I can't get at them.  Maybe it works better if you are
reaching them from a USA university network?

I've corresponded briefly with the folks at HT, and they said their hands
are tied by copyright issues.  However, many items I've tried to view were
long out of copyright, so that's not quite correct.  I think perhaps they
have a blanket bar on lots of materials because they don't have the staff
to pick through everything and decide what can be released.  But other
consortia manage this problem simply by using a date of publication and
making reasonable assumptions about the lifetime of the author.

I also don't understand the relationship between the digitizing that HT
does, and the work of Google Books, DLI, Microsoft and Archive.org.  Are HT
not duplicating work done already, elsewhere?

I have not had time to dig into these questions, so if somone here knows
more about HT's policies and goals, I'd be glad to learn more.  HT looks
like a valuable resource.  It would be good for our field if we could
actually use it.

Best wishes,
Dominik



--
Professor Dominik Wujastyk* <http://ualberta.academia.edu/DominikWujastyk>
Singhmar Chair in Classical Indian Society and Polity
Department of History and Classics <http://historyandclassics.ualberta.ca/>
University of Alberta, Canada

<https://mail.google.com/mail/u/0/goog_1525257691>
?sas.ualberta.ca?


On 29 September 2016 at 08:17, Olivelle, J P <jpo at austin.utexas.edu> wrote:

> Can someone tell me how to download a PDF from files in the Hathi Trust?
> There is no obvious button, even when I log in.
>
> Thanks.
>
> Patrick
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
> committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
> unsubscribe)
>


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From collinb1 at ohio.edu  Thu Sep 29 14:47:31 2016
From: collinb1 at ohio.edu (Collins, Brian)
Date: Thu, 29 Sep 16 14:47:31 +0000
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Altar of Fire Movie
Message-ID: <2B776540-2EF7-46E4-9D04-D90C7827CA01@ohio.edu>

Dear Indology List,

After years of showing Altar of Fire to my Hinduism class and having to pause the video to explain some of the less intelligible dialogue, I have decided to create a subtitle track to accompany the movie. And since I have the two accompanying volumes, I thought I would also subtitle the chants we hear using Staal?s day by day description of the rite. But before I undertake this, I want to make sure no one else already has and spared me the trouble.

Hopefully,

Brian

Asst. Prof. Brian Collins
Drs. Ram and Sushila Gawande Chair in Indian Religion and Philosophy
210J Ellis Hall
Ohio University
Athens, OH 45701
740-597-2103






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From jpo at austin.utexas.edu  Thu Sep 29 15:03:52 2016
From: jpo at austin.utexas.edu (Olivelle, J P)
Date: Thu, 29 Sep 16 15:03:52 +0000
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Heath
In-Reply-To: <CAKdt-Cc7mOOwkwf1QdfsgjkAAHuX2RD1i8vFwA3U5a+OemKmmw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <79FF8ADD-E8E2-4556-A6FF-76509689CAD3@austin.utexas.edu>

Thanks to everyone who responded. Yes, it seems that if you log in via a participating institution, then there is a download PDF button on the lefthand side.

Patrick




On Sep 29, 2016, at 9:32 AM, Dominik Wujastyk <wujastyk at gmail.com<mailto:wujastyk at gmail.com>> wrote:

Dear Patrick,

The Hathi Trust puzzles me.  It's a major consortium of USA libraries that has been busy digitizing books on a grand scale.  But almost everything they have done is not available for consultation.  This is especially true if you live outside the USA.   Personally, I have given up trying to use the Hathi Trust's materials, because I repeatedly see desirable items in their collection but I can't get at them.  Maybe it works better if you are reaching them from a USA university network?

I've corresponded briefly with the folks at HT, and they said their hands are tied by copyright issues.  However, many items I've tried to view were long out of copyright, so that's not quite correct.  I think perhaps they have a blanket bar on lots of materials because they don't have the staff to pick through everything and decide what can be released.  But other consortia manage this problem simply by using a date of publication and making reasonable assumptions about the lifetime of the author.

I also don't understand the relationship between the digitizing that HT does, and the work of Google Books, DLI, Microsoft and Archive.org<http://archive.org>.  Are HT not duplicating work done already, elsewhere?

I have not had time to dig into these questions, so if somone here knows more about HT's policies and goals, I'd be glad to learn more.  HT looks like a valuable resource.  It would be good for our field if we could actually use it.

Best wishes,
Dominik



--
Professor Dominik Wujastyk*<http://ualberta.academia.edu/DominikWujastyk>
Singhmar Chair in Classical Indian Society and Polity
Department of History and Classics<http://historyandclassics.ualberta.ca/>
University of Alberta, Canada

<https://mail.google.com/mail/u/0/goog_1525257691>
?sas.ualberta.ca?<http://sas.ualberta.ca/>


On 29 September 2016 at 08:17, Olivelle, J P <jpo at austin.utexas.edu<mailto:jpo at austin.utexas.edu>> wrote:
Can someone tell me how to download a PDF from files in the Hathi Trust? There is no obvious button, even when I log in.

Thanks.

Patrick
_______________________________________________
INDOLOGY mailing list
INDOLOGY at list.indology.info<mailto:INDOLOGY at list.indology.info>
indology-owner at list.indology.info<mailto:indology-owner at list.indology.info> (messages to the list's managing committee)
http://listinfo.indology.info<http://listinfo.indology.info/> (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe)




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From audrey.truschke at gmail.com  Thu Sep 29 15:52:09 2016
From: audrey.truschke at gmail.com (Audrey Truschke)
Date: Thu, 29 Sep 16 11:52:09 -0400
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Indologist at Center of Sexual Harassment Mess at Berkeley
Message-ID: <CAKq175ogum_F976swt+w2KWquueZBA-3ip5YJU=jUfr3QMfjFw@mail.gmail.com>

Dear Colleagues,

List members may be interested in an ongoing sexual harassment scandal at
UC Berkeley involving an Indologist, Blake Wentworth.

Wentworth, who works on classical Tamil literature, was found guilty of
sexual harassment and misconduct last year by the university, and three of
his victims came forward with details of the case (here
<https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/apr/10/uc-berkeley-students-professor-sexual-harassment-complaint>
and here
<https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/may/27/uc-berkeley-sexual-harassment-scandal-blake-wentworth>)
after being frustrated with delays in firing Wentworth.

Now Wentworth is trying to silence the women he harassed with a defamation
lawsuit (here
<https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/sep/29/uc-berkeley-sexual-harassment-blake-wentworth-sues-victims>
).

As many of you know, sexual harassment is an ongoing issue in many
disciplines, and our corner of the academy, it seems, is no exception.

Audrey Truschke
Assistant Professor
Department of History
Rutgers University-Newark


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From psdmccartney at gmail.com  Fri Sep 30 01:42:05 2016
From: psdmccartney at gmail.com (patrick mccartney)
Date: Fri, 30 Sep 16 11:12:05 +0930
Subject: [INDOLOGY] memory
Message-ID: <CAEzwJrCiEwd5B3dWiLG4Sh1CLQYoDREsgyCoi3BHyC8qUAk84Q@mail.gmail.com>

Dear Friends,

I thought you might find this article interesting. It is about Indigenous
Australia and the memorisation techniques of oral cultures used to commit
knowledge to memory and pass onto successive generations.

http://phys.org/news/2016-09-oral-cultures-memorise.html


All the best,

Patrick McCartney, PhD
Fellow
School of Culture, History & Language
College of the Asia-Pacific
The Australian National University
Canberra, Australia, 0200


Skype - psdmccartney
Phone + Whatsapp:  +61 414 954 748
Twitter - @psdmccartney

academia <https://anu-au.academia.edu/patrickmccartney>

   -

Linkedin
<https://www.linkedin.com/profile/view?id=241756978&trk=nav_responsive_tab_profile>

Edanz <https://www.edanzediting.com/expert/anthropology/patrick-mccartney>

#yogabodyANU2016 symposium <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X80KxW2bb0w>
<http://chl.anu.edu.au/news-events/events/658/yoga-and-body-past-and-present-symposium?#tab>

Ep1 - Imagining Sanskrit Land <https://youtu.be/jMi7tkPBbJ4>

Ep 2 - Total-am <https://youtu.be/7tAp8m9RHPU>

Ep 3 - Jalam ? Chillum <https://youtu.be/cLZeuCT_mwQ>

Ep 4 - It's Time to get Married
<https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_B3un7aHEAc>

A Day in our Ashram
<https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=ek+din+hamaare+ashram+mein>

Stop animation short film of Shakuntala
<https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LVqBD_2P4Pg>

Forced to Clean Human Waste <http://youtu.be/y3XfjbwqC_g>

One of my favourite song <http://trinityroots.bandcamp.com/track/all-we-be>s


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From swright at nalandauniv.edu.in  Fri Sep 30 04:35:24 2016
From: swright at nalandauniv.edu.in (Samuel Wright)
Date: Fri, 30 Sep 16 10:05:24 +0530
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Email for Prof. Pushpa Prasad?
Message-ID: <CADaCuGfe---kdyNcamdO10gAo+AfHwjAULpLLLE3nQ_NzAn-xw@mail.gmail.com>

Dear List,

Might anyone have a current email address for Pushpa Prasad, Professor
Emerita of Aligarh Muslim University?

Many thanks,
Samuel

Rajgir, Bihar


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From mbroo at abo.fi  Fri Sep 30 08:28:45 2016
From: mbroo at abo.fi (mbroo at abo.fi)
Date: Fri, 30 Sep 16 11:28:45 +0300
Subject: [INDOLOGY] List of NMM manuscripts?
Message-ID: <20160930112845.8gwzljbrr44o800k@webmail2.abo.fi>


Dear colleagues,

A link to a huge file listing the Sanskrit mss catalogued by the NMM  
was posted on the Indology list some time ago. I downloaded the file  
but I have somehow managed to lose it. Is this file still available?

Sincerely
M?ns Broo

-- 
Dr. M?ns Broo
Senior Lecturer of Comparative Religion
Editor of Temenos, Nordic Journal of Comparative Religion
?bo Akademi University
Fabriksgatan 2
FI-20500 ?bo, Finland
phone: +358-2-2154398
fax: +358-2-2154902
mobile: +358-50-5695754







From shrivara at gmail.com  Fri Sep 30 16:34:39 2016
From: shrivara at gmail.com (Shrinivasa Varakhedi)
Date: Fri, 30 Sep 16 16:34:39 +0000
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Fwd: [Test] Chinmaya University Faculty Recruitment | Call for Applications
In-Reply-To: <CAAery2nZyXGRmeKAQ=KFgoLj3dQgReOLd3mjmrqUV4XcJCdCDw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CABcym2tKE_zLapT8pnmL_+k_KeBsyHc60j4Qp3uPL7os2DOC+A@mail.gmail.com>

Colleagues

Kindly spread the word about faculty recruitment at various levels in
Chinamay University Kerala India.

If you wish you may recommend names with cv.

We encourage faculty from other nations also to apply for the positions at
various levels,

Warm regards
Shrinivasa Varakhedi
Professor and Dean @KSU
Hon. Dean @CVV

---------- Forwarded message ---------
From: Suresh Subramanian <suresh at chinmayauniversity.ac.in>
Date: Sat, 24 Sep 2016 at 9:34 PM
Subject: Fwd: [Test] Chinmaya University Faculty Recruitment | Call for
Applications
To: Shrinivasa Varakhedi <shrivara at gmail.com>


Srinivasji

Hari Om

?See the mailchimp below that has gone from VC's ID.? I have also attached
the press advertisement separately as an attachment

The URL is also pasted here

Recruitment link is on http://www.chinmayauniversity.ac.in/recruitment/

Recruitment Advertisement is on
https://gallery.mailchimp.com/690ac0b14e42d7f48d9bcc1cb/files/Press_Ad.pdf

You could share the URL with anyone
?.

Unto Him Our Best
Prem & Om
Suresh Subramanian
Registrar & Principal Director
Chinmaya Vishwavidyapeeth
(University u/s 3 of the UGC Act, 1956)


Chinmaya Vishwavidyapeeth Faculty Recruitment | Call for applications
View this email in your browser
<http://us14.campaign-archive1.com/?u=690ac0b14e42d7f48d9bcc1cb&id=08dadeb4df&e=>

Greetings from *Chinmaya Vishwavidyapeeth*: *University for Sanskrit &
Indic Traditions!*

There is a growing aspiration and demand among the Indian society to
seriously explore the possibility of ?*mainstreaming*? Sanskrit education
in the country. Increasingly, many feel strongly that the knowledge
contained in the Ancient Indian Wisdom could be of great value to address
several of the modern day issues that societies, governments and businesses
face world over. To respond to these growing aspirations, Chinmaya Mission
has started this University. It is my pleasure and privilege, as the Vice
Chancellor of this University, to write to you to bring this to your
attention.

It is my personal vision to create a World Class university with enabling
systems and infrastructure, where faculty drawn from both the modern
streams of knowledge and Sanskrit & Ancient Indian wisdom will jointly
teach new programs and conduct research to address these requirements.
Students who graduate from the University will be able to work in several
sectors of the economy, armed with a sound understanding and application
potential of Ancient Indian Wisdom in their work places. For more details,
I urge you to visit our website at www.chinmayauniversity.ac.in.

We are in the process of *hiring faculty for the University* and the
details are available in the web site. The call for applications for
faculty recruitment is accessible through this link
<http://www.chinmayauniversity.ac.in/recruitment/>. I request you to
provide wide publicity to this among your faculty colleagues and the
research scholars working with them. I also request you to encourage
promising and eligible candidates to apply.

We are hopeful of creating new paradigms in teaching Sanskrit & Ancient
Indian Wisdom with an emphasis on contemporary applications. This I hope
will truly pave the way for India becoming ?*Vishwa Guru*? once again. The
support of existing institutions of higher learning of repute, such as
yours, is very crucial for this to happen.

Thank you for your support.


Yours sincerely,


B Mahadevan
Vice Chancellor


Encl: Call for Applications
Go to our Faculty Recruitment Page
<http://www.chinmayauniversity.ac.in/recruitment>
Call for Applications - Press Advertisement
<https://gallery.mailchimp.com/690ac0b14e42d7f48d9bcc1cb/files/Press_Ad.pdf>
<https://twitter.com/ChinmayaUni>
<https://www.facebook.com/ChinmayaUni>
<http://www.chinmayauniversity.ac.in>
*Copyright ? 2016 Chinmaya Vishwavidyapeeth, All rights reserved.*
Faculty Recruitment Mailer

*Our mailing address is:*
Chinmaya Vishwavidyapeeth
Chinmaya Eswar Gurukula for Indic Wisdom
Adi Sankara Nilayam, Adi Sankara Marg, Veliyanad
Ernakulam 682313
India

Add us to your address book
<http://chinmayauniversity.us14.list-manage.com/vcard?u=690ac0b14e42d7f48d9bcc1cb&id=cc7701be50>

Email: info at chinmayauniversity.ac.in
Phone: +91-484-2747307

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The information contained in e-mail messages sent using domains of Chinmaya
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and notify the sender immediately. You should not copy or use it for any
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