From 249292 at soas.ac.uk Sat Oct 1 05:21:47 2016 From: 249292 at soas.ac.uk (Patricia Sauthoff) Date: Sat, 01 Oct 16 10:51:47 +0530 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Tibetan and English Language Instructors Message-ID: Dear All, I wanted to call your attention to two positions at Nalanda University for language instructors. One for Tibetan and the other for English. http://www.nalandauniv.edu.in/docs/language-instructor-notification.pdf Please share with any postgraduate students or recent graduates you think might be interested. Patricia Sauthoff PhD Candidate South Asian Languages and Cultures SOAS, University of London Teaching Fellow Nalanda University -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From hspier.muktabodha at gmail.com Sat Oct 1 17:51:28 2016 From: hspier.muktabodha at gmail.com (Harry Spier) Date: Sat, 01 Oct 16 13:51:28 -0400 Subject: [INDOLOGY] How bhagavAn is written in devanagari manuscripts and printed editions Message-ID: Dear list members, Firstly happy Navaratri. Secondly I was told by a good sanskritist that the word bhagavAn is always written in devanagari -with a space after it as a sign of respect even if it would normally be joined to the following letter in devanagari. I did a quick search of the texts in the Muktabodha digital library and I found that was true about 50% of the time. i.e. ?????? ???????? .............. ?????? ????? ................ ?????? ??????????? NOT ?????????????? ............... ??????????? ..................... ????????????????? Can any of the list members tell meif not joining bhagavAn to the following word based on some scriptural statement. Thanks, Harry Spier -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From nmisra at gmail.com Sun Oct 2 04:53:26 2016 From: nmisra at gmail.com (Nityanand Misra) Date: Sun, 02 Oct 16 10:23:26 +0530 Subject: [INDOLOGY] How bhagavAn is written in devanagari manuscripts and printed editions In-Reply-To: Message-ID: The claim sounds dubious. The use of space itself is a much later development in manuscripts. Gita Press, arguably the gold standard in publishing Hindu scriptures for many decades, uses ????????????? (and not ?????????? ????) throughout in the Bhagavad Gita. On 1 October 2016 at 23:21, Harry Spier wrote: > Dear list members, > > Firstly happy Navaratri. > > Secondly I was told by a good sanskritist that the word bhagavAn is always > written in devanagari -with a space after it as a sign of respect even if > it would normally be joined to the following letter in devanagari. I did a > quick search of the texts in the Muktabodha digital library and I found > that was true about 50% of the time. > i.e. > > ?????? ???????? .............. ?????? ????? ................ ?????? > ??????????? > > NOT > ?????????????? ............... ??????????? ..................... > ????????????????? > > Can any of the list members tell meif not joining bhagavAn to the > following word based on some scriptural statement. > > Thanks, > Harry Spier > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing > committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or > unsubscribe) > -- Nity?nanda Mi?ra http://nmisra.googlepages.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dchakra at hotmail.de Sun Oct 2 06:08:22 2016 From: dchakra at hotmail.de (Dr. Debabrata Chakrabarti) Date: Sun, 02 Oct 16 06:08:22 +0000 Subject: [INDOLOGY] How a thousand-year-old Sanskrit love poem has travelled the world! Message-ID: How a thousand-year-old Sanskrit love poem has travelled the world Bilhana's Caurapa?casika has even made it to John Steinbeck's 'Cannery Row'. Dear List Members, I think the link on the above topic will be interesting to our members. : http://scroll.in/article/818014/how-a-thousand-year-old-sanskrit-love-poem-has-travelled-the-world Regards Debabrata Chakrabarti [http://d1u4oo4rb13yy8.cloudfront.net/facebook/42617-fxptxaxpue-1475336281.JPG] How a thousand-year-old Sanskrit love poem has travelled the world scroll.in Bilhana's Caurapa?casika has even made it to John Steinbeck's 'Cannery Row'. ???This body is like a musical instrument; what you hear depends upon how you play it.??? ??? Anandamayi Ma ???Inside every human being there exists a special heaven, whole and unbroken.??? - Paracelsus -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From paoloe.rosati at gmail.com Sun Oct 2 13:27:52 2016 From: paoloe.rosati at gmail.com (Paolo Eugenio Rosati) Date: Sun, 02 Oct 16 15:27:52 +0200 Subject: =?utf-8?Q?[INDOLOGY]_Pdf_request:_B=E1=B9=9Bhann=C4=ABla_Tantra?= Message-ID: Dear friends, I am looking for a copy of the *B?hann?la Tantra* it would be great to have the 1941's first edition, however also the 1984 reprint will be very welcome! Best, Paolo -- Paolo E. Rosati Oriental Archaeologist PhD candidate in "Civilizations of Asia and Africa" South Asia Section Dep. Italian Institute of Oriental Studies/ISO 'Sapienza' University of Rome *https://uniroma1.academia.edu/PaoloRosati/ * paoloe.rosati at uniroma1.it paoloe.rosati at gmail.com Skype: paoloe.rosati Mobile: (+39) 338 73 83 472 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From hr at ivs.edu Sun Oct 2 15:23:04 2016 From: hr at ivs.edu (Howard Resnick) Date: Sun, 02 Oct 16 11:23:04 -0400 Subject: [INDOLOGY] satya Message-ID: <0BF36289-6F2C-4A3F-A591-7A8454A25357@ivs.edu> Dear Scholars, Does the derivation of satya, truth, from ?sat? follow any particular set of rules for derivative nouns? Thanks, Howard From nmisra at gmail.com Sun Oct 2 15:49:34 2016 From: nmisra at gmail.com (Nityanand Misra) Date: Sun, 02 Oct 16 21:19:34 +0530 Subject: [INDOLOGY] satya In-Reply-To: <0BF36289-6F2C-4A3F-A591-7A8454A25357@ivs.edu> Message-ID: The derivations I am aware of are sati s?dhu satyam sat + yat (*tatra s?dhu?*, A 4.4.98) = satya or sate/sadbhyo hita? satyam sat + yat (*tasmai hitam*, A 5.1.5) = satya On 2 October 2016 at 20:53, Howard Resnick
wrote: > Dear Scholars, > > Does the derivation of satya, truth, from ?sat? follow any > particular set of rules for derivative nouns? > > Thanks, > Howard > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing > committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or > unsubscribe) -- Nity?nanda Mi?ra http://nmisra.googlepages.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From paoloe.rosati at gmail.com Sun Oct 2 16:18:04 2016 From: paoloe.rosati at gmail.com (Paolo Eugenio Rosati) Date: Sun, 02 Oct 16 18:18:04 +0200 Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_[INDOLOGY]_Pdf_request:_B=E1=B9=9Bhann=C4=ABla_Tantra?= In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Many thanks to professor Madhav Deshpande for helping me. Best, Paolo On 2 October 2016 at 15:27, Paolo Eugenio Rosati wrote: > Dear friends, > > I am looking for a copy of the *B?hann?la Tantra* > it would be great to have the 1941's first edition, however also the 1984 > reprint will be very welcome! > > Best, > Paolo > > -- > Paolo E. Rosati > Oriental Archaeologist > PhD candidate in "Civilizations of Asia and Africa" > South Asia Section > Dep. Italian Institute of Oriental Studies/ISO > 'Sapienza' University of Rome > *https://uniroma1.academia.edu/PaoloRosati/ > * > paoloe.rosati at uniroma1.it > paoloe.rosati at gmail.com > Skype: paoloe.rosati > Mobile: (+39) 338 73 83 472 > -- Paolo E. Rosati Oriental Archaeologist PhD candidate in "Civilizations of Asia and Africa" South Asia Section Dep. Italian Institute of Oriental Studies/ISO 'Sapienza' University of Rome *https://uniroma1.academia.edu/PaoloRosati/ * paoloe.rosati at uniroma1.it paoloe.rosati at gmail.com Skype: paoloe.rosati Mobile: (+39) 338 73 83 472 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From hspier.muktabodha at gmail.com Sun Oct 2 16:25:00 2016 From: hspier.muktabodha at gmail.com (Harry Spier) Date: Sun, 02 Oct 16 12:25:00 -0400 Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_[INDOLOGY]_Pdf_request:_B=E1=B9=9Bhann=C4=ABla_Tantra?= In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Dear Paolo, This text has been data-entered into the Muktabodha digital library and is searchable. www.muktabodha.org and follow the links to the digital library. Harry Spier On Sun, Oct 2, 2016 at 9:27 AM, Paolo Eugenio Rosati < paoloe.rosati at gmail.com> wrote: > Dear friends, > > I am looking for a copy of the *B?hann?la Tantra* > it would be great to have the 1941's first edition, however also the 1984 > reprint will be very welcome! > > Best, > Paolo > > -- > Paolo E. Rosati > Oriental Archaeologist > PhD candidate in "Civilizations of Asia and Africa" > South Asia Section > Dep. Italian Institute of Oriental Studies/ISO > 'Sapienza' University of Rome > *https://uniroma1.academia.edu/PaoloRosati/ > * > paoloe.rosati at uniroma1.it > paoloe.rosati at gmail.com > Skype: paoloe.rosati > Mobile: (+39) 338 73 83 472 > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing > committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or > unsubscribe) > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From adheesh1 at gmail.com Sun Oct 2 17:15:39 2016 From: adheesh1 at gmail.com (Adheesh Sathaye) Date: Sun, 02 Oct 16 10:15:39 -0700 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Sanskrit and Panjabi Culture? Message-ID: <2DBA8E89-DBE2-4743-973E-F92A02926D96@gmail.com> Dear Colleagues, Can anyone tell me if there are any contemporary, reputable scholars working on the interactions between Sanskrit and the Panjab, whether in linguistics, literature, cultural history, or religious thought? All leads would be valuable, as we are hoping to organize a special session on this topic for the 2018 World Sanskrit Conference. With best wishes, Adheesh ? Dr. Adheesh Sathaye Dept. of Asian Studies University of British Columbia 408-1871 West Mall Vancouver BC CANADA V6T1Z2 adheesh at mail.ubc.ca +1.604.822.5188 http://www.ubcsanskrit.ca http://www.asianfolklore.ca From hspier.muktabodha at gmail.com Sun Oct 2 17:53:14 2016 From: hspier.muktabodha at gmail.com (Harry Spier) Date: Sun, 02 Oct 16 13:53:14 -0400 Subject: [INDOLOGY] How bhagavAn is written in devanagari manuscripts and printed editions In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Thank you for this Nityanand, I've gone back and rechecked the texts in the Muktabodha Digital library and the pattern in both printed editions and in manuscripts appears to be spaces after bhagavAn if followed by a consonent and no space if followed by a vowel. This appears in printed editions, manuscripts from NGMCP , IFP paper transcripts and even in the few transcriptions from grantha script I checked. My quick check included ahirbudhnya saMhita vol. 1 and 2 printed editions AgamakalpalatA ngmcp manuscript agamaprAmAnyA printed edition Anandatantra IFP transcript ASTaprakaraNa grantha script printed edtiion IzAnazIvagurudevapaddhati printed edition IzvarapratyabhijJavimarzinIvyAkhyA ifp transcript umAsaMhitA ifp transcript kamikAgama uttarabhAgA grantha script printed edition kamikAgama pUrvabhAga grantha script printed edition (once space, twice no space) karanAgama printed edition kalasaMkarSinImatatantraTippanI NGMCP manuscript Thanks, Harry Spier On Sun, Oct 2, 2016 at 12:53 AM, Nityanand Misra wrote: > The claim sounds dubious. The use of space itself is a much later > development in manuscripts. Gita Press, arguably the gold standard in > publishing Hindu scriptures for many decades, uses ????????????? (and not > ?????????? ????) throughout in the Bhagavad Gita. > > On 1 October 2016 at 23:21, Harry Spier > wrote: > >> Dear list members, >> >> Firstly happy Navaratri. >> >> Secondly I was told by a good sanskritist that the word bhagavAn is >> always written in devanagari -with a space after it as a sign of respect >> even if it would normally be joined to the following letter in devanagari. >> I did a quick search of the texts in the Muktabodha digital library and I >> found that was true about 50% of the time. >> i.e. >> >> ?????? ???????? .............. ?????? ????? ................ ?????? >> ??????????? >> >> NOT >> ?????????????? ............... ??????????? ..................... >> ????????????????? >> >> Can any of the list members tell meif not joining bhagavAn to the >> following word based on some scriptural statement. >> >> Thanks, >> Harry Spier >> >> _______________________________________________ >> INDOLOGY mailing list >> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info >> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing >> committee) >> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or >> unsubscribe) >> > > > > -- > Nity?nanda Mi?ra > http://nmisra.googlepages.com > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From nmisra at gmail.com Mon Oct 3 00:58:27 2016 From: nmisra at gmail.com (Nityanand Misra) Date: Mon, 03 Oct 16 06:28:27 +0530 Subject: [INDOLOGY] How bhagavAn is written in devanagari manuscripts and printed editions In-Reply-To: Message-ID: How about words with similar ending like ?????? Does that show a similar pattern? If so, is it possible that this has to do with the consonant ?? rather than the word ??????? On Oct 2, 2016 11:23 PM, "Harry Spier" wrote: Thank you for this Nityanand, I've gone back and rechecked the texts in the Muktabodha Digital library and the pattern in both printed editions and in manuscripts appears to be spaces after bhagavAn if followed by a consonent and no space if followed by a vowel. This appears in printed editions, manuscripts from NGMCP , IFP paper transcripts and even in the few transcriptions from grantha script I checked. My quick check included ahirbudhnya saMhita vol. 1 and 2 printed editions AgamakalpalatA ngmcp manuscript agamaprAmAnyA printed edition Anandatantra IFP transcript ASTaprakaraNa grantha script printed edtiion IzAnazIvagurudevapaddhati printed edition IzvarapratyabhijJavimarzinIvyAkhyA ifp transcript umAsaMhitA ifp transcript kamikAgama uttarabhAgA grantha script printed edition kamikAgama pUrvabhAga grantha script printed edition (once space, twice no space) karanAgama printed edition kalasaMkarSinImatatantraTippanI NGMCP manuscript Thanks, Harry Spier On Sun, Oct 2, 2016 at 12:53 AM, Nityanand Misra wrote: > The claim sounds dubious. The use of space itself is a much later > development in manuscripts. Gita Press, arguably the gold standard in > publishing Hindu scriptures for many decades, uses ????????????? (and not > ?????????? ????) throughout in the Bhagavad Gita. > > On 1 October 2016 at 23:21, Harry Spier > wrote: > >> Dear list members, >> >> Firstly happy Navaratri. >> >> Secondly I was told by a good sanskritist that the word bhagavAn is >> always written in devanagari -with a space after it as a sign of respect >> even if it would normally be joined to the following letter in devanagari. >> I did a quick search of the texts in the Muktabodha digital library and I >> found that was true about 50% of the time. >> i.e. >> >> ?????? ???????? .............. ?????? ????? ................ ?????? >> ??????????? >> >> NOT >> ?????????????? ............... ??????????? ..................... >> ????????????????? >> >> Can any of the list members tell meif not joining bhagavAn to the >> following word based on some scriptural statement. >> >> Thanks, >> Harry Spier >> >> _______________________________________________ >> INDOLOGY mailing list >> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info >> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing >> committee) >> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or >> unsubscribe) >> > > > > -- > Nity?nanda Mi?ra > http://nmisra.googlepages.com > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From hspier.muktabodha at gmail.com Mon Oct 3 01:16:25 2016 From: hspier.muktabodha at gmail.com (Harry Spier) Date: Sun, 02 Oct 16 21:16:25 -0400 Subject: [INDOLOGY] New e-texts added to Muktabodha Digital Library Message-ID: Dear list members, The following new e-texts have been added to the Muktabodha Digital Library Bharatan??ya??stra with Abhinavaguptas commentary Abhinavabh?rat? in three volumes edited by R?mak??na Kavi and published in the Gaekwad Oriental Series in three volumes . ?ryama?ju?r?m?lakalpa an 8th century buddhist text with many mantras,ritual procedures and forms of deities common to their ?aiva equivalents. The e-text was transcribed from The Trivandrum Sansskrit Series in three volumes. The Tantr?bhidh?na with b?janigha??u, b?j?bhidh?na, mantr?rth?bhidh?na, var.nab?jako?a and mudr?nigha??u . This is volume 1 in Arthur Avalon (John Woodroffes) Tantrik Text Series and is a series of works concerned with the codes used in presenting mantras in various tantras. Harry Spier Manager, Muktabodha Digital Library -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From swright at nalandauniv.edu.in Mon Oct 3 16:16:34 2016 From: swright at nalandauniv.edu.in (Samuel Wright) Date: Mon, 03 Oct 16 21:46:34 +0530 Subject: [INDOLOGY] PDF of Gaurinath Sastri article ('Post-Gadadhara Naiyayikas') Message-ID: Dear List, Might anyone have a scan of: Sastri, Gaurinath. 1968. "Post-Gadadhara Naiyayikas of Bengal (1600-1800 A.D)." In J. C. Heesterman et al., eds. *Pratidanam*. The Hague, Paris: Mouton, pp. 516-22. Many thanks, Samuel Rajgir, Bihar -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From hr at ivs.edu Mon Oct 3 16:50:39 2016 From: hr at ivs.edu (Howard Resnick) Date: Mon, 03 Oct 16 12:50:39 -0400 Subject: [INDOLOGY] satya In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <9A9A51A2-E488-4563-8244-3B96FED5A8A2@ivs.edu> Thank you. Howard > On Oct 2, 2016, at 11:49 AM, Nityanand Misra wrote: > > The derivations I am aware of are > > sati s?dhu satyam > sat + yat (tatra s?dhu?, A 4.4.98) = satya > > or > > sate/sadbhyo hita? satyam > sat + yat (tasmai hitam, A 5.1.5) = satya > > > > On 2 October 2016 at 20:53, Howard Resnick
> wrote: > Dear Scholars, > > Does the derivation of satya, truth, from ?sat? follow any particular set of rules for derivative nouns? > > Thanks, > Howard > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) > > > > -- > Nity?nanda Mi?ra > http://nmisra.googlepages.com > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From nmisra at gmail.com Tue Oct 4 03:15:25 2016 From: nmisra at gmail.com (Nityanand Misra) Date: Tue, 04 Oct 16 08:45:25 +0530 Subject: [INDOLOGY] satya In-Reply-To: <9A9A51A2-E488-4563-8244-3B96FED5A8A2@ivs.edu> Message-ID: A member asked offline why there is no ?ja?tva? (?t? to ?d? change) by ?jhal?? ja?o?nte? (A. 8.2.39) in sat + ya = satya, unlike in cases like sat + yukti = sadyukti sat + yoga = sadyoga I am copying the answer here too. The reason is that due to ?yaci bham? (A 1.4.18), ?sat? in ?sat + ya? is not a ?pada? but a ?bha?. This is why ?jhal?? ja?o?nte? is not applicable. ?yaci bham? does not apply in ?sadyukti?, ?sadyoga?, etc. On 3 October 2016 at 22:20, Howard Resnick
wrote: > Thank you. > Howard > > On Oct 2, 2016, at 11:49 AM, Nityanand Misra wrote: > > The derivations I am aware of are > > sati s?dhu satyam > sat + yat (*tatra s?dhu?*, A 4.4.98) = satya > > or > > sate/sadbhyo hita? satyam > sat + yat (*tasmai hitam*, A 5.1.5) = satya > > > > On 2 October 2016 at 20:53, Howard Resnick
wrote: > >> Dear Scholars, >> >> Does the derivation of satya, truth, from ?sat? follow any >> particular set of rules for derivative nouns? >> >> Thanks, >> Howard >> _______________________________________________ >> INDOLOGY mailing list >> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info >> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing >> committee) >> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or >> unsubscribe) > > > > > -- > Nity?nanda Mi?ra > http://nmisra.googlepages.com > > > -- Nity?nanda Mi?ra http://nmisra.googlepages.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From himal.trikha at oeaw.ac.at Tue Oct 4 04:00:13 2016 From: himal.trikha at oeaw.ac.at (Himal Trikha) Date: Tue, 04 Oct 16 06:00:13 +0200 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Roque Mesquita (1937-2016) Message-ID: Dear list members, This is to convey the sad news that Roque Mesquita of Vienna (?Madhva?s Unknown Sources?) passed away peacefully on September 22nd after a long illness. He leaves behind his wife Erika and their children Sushila, Dominik and Sunanda. Born and educated in Goa, India, Roque deepened his theological education at the Gregorian University, Rome, before taking up the study of Indology at the University of Vienna with Gerhard Oberhammer. He initially specialized in Vi?i???dvaita?ve?d?n?ta and completed his doctoral dissertation (1971) and habilitation (1988) on Y?muna, particularly on the Sa?vitsiddhi. Roque was a member of the faculty of the Institute for Indology from 1972 until his retirement in 2002. He studied Madhva?s works from the mid-nineties onwards, publishing several monographs and engaging in lively discussions on his research as long as his health permitted. His last article ?Rejoinder II: Madhva's Unknown Literary Sources? appeared in 2014 in the Rivista di Studi Orientali 87. His final book was seen through the press by his family: ?Studies on Madhva?s Vi??utattvanir?aya?, New Delhi: Aditya Prakashan 2016, 308 pages. Indologists from Vienna have lost a dear and gentle colleague and a patient teacher of Sanskrit: Roque was in charge of the introductory Sanskrit courses for decades and many of us learned to love and respect this language through him. His friendly and good-spirited nature will be very much missed. Himal Trikha From jpo at austin.utexas.edu Tue Oct 4 11:40:02 2016 From: jpo at austin.utexas.edu (Olivelle, J P) Date: Tue, 04 Oct 16 11:40:02 +0000 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Roque Mesquita (1937-2016) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <4C4C04E9-D15F-49A9-8310-1650C335860B@austin.utexas.edu> This is quite distressing news. I knew Roque and his family from the mid-1970s, and the last time they had us over to their home was in 2001. He was already sick when I visited Vienna a few years ago and could not meet him. He was a kind and generous person and a fine scholar. We will miss him. Patrick Olivelle > On Oct 3, 2016, at 11:00 PM, Himal Trikha wrote: > > Dear list members, > > This is to convey the sad news that Roque Mesquita of Vienna (?Madhva?s Unknown Sources?) passed away peacefully on September 22nd after a long illness. He leaves behind his wife Erika and their children Sushila, Dominik and Sunanda. > > Born and educated in Goa, India, Roque deepened his theological education at the Gregorian University, Rome, before taking up the study of Indology at the University of Vienna with Gerhard Oberhammer. He initially specialized in Vi?i???dvaita?ve?d?n?ta and completed his doctoral dissertation (1971) and habilitation (1988) on Y?muna, particularly on the Sa?vitsiddhi. > > Roque was a member of the faculty of the Institute for Indology from 1972 until his retirement in 2002. He studied Madhva?s works from the mid-nineties onwards, publishing several monographs and engaging in lively discussions on his research as long as his health permitted. His last article ?Rejoinder II: Madhva's Unknown Literary Sources? appeared in 2014 in the Rivista di Studi Orientali 87. His final book was seen through the press by his family: ?Studies on Madhva?s Vi??utattvanir?aya?, New Delhi: Aditya Prakashan 2016, 308 pages. > > Indologists from Vienna have lost a dear and gentle colleague and a patient teacher of Sanskrit: Roque was in charge of the introductory Sanskrit courses for decades and many of us learned to love and respect this language through him. > > His friendly and good-spirited nature will be very much missed. > > Himal Trikha > > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) From wujastyk at gmail.com Tue Oct 4 15:34:02 2016 From: wujastyk at gmail.com (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Tue, 04 Oct 16 09:34:02 -0600 Subject: [INDOLOGY] List of NMM manuscripts? In-Reply-To: <20160930112845.8gwzljbrr44o800k@webmail2.abo.fi> Message-ID: See - http://list.indology.info/pipermail/indology_list.indology.info/2015-November/042369.html I can confirm that the Dropbox link still works as of this morning. -- Professor Dominik Wujastyk* Singhmar Chair in Classical Indian Society and Polity Department of History and Classics University of Alberta, Canada ?sas.ualberta.ca? On 30 September 2016 at 02:28, wrote: > > Dear colleagues, > > A link to a huge file listing the Sanskrit mss catalogued by the NMM was > posted on the Indology list some time ago. I downloaded the file but I have > somehow managed to lose it. Is this file still available? > > Sincerely > M?ns Broo > > -- > Dr. M?ns Broo > Senior Lecturer of Comparative Religion > Editor of Temenos, Nordic Journal of Comparative Religion > ?bo Akademi University > Fabriksgatan 2 > FI-20500 ?bo, Finland > phone: +358-2-2154398 > fax: +358-2-2154902 > mobile: +358-50-5695754 > > > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing > committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or > unsubscribe) > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mbroo at abo.fi Tue Oct 4 17:07:51 2016 From: mbroo at abo.fi (mbroo at abo.fi) Date: Tue, 04 Oct 16 20:07:51 +0300 Subject: [INDOLOGY] List of NMM manuscripts? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20161004200751.rgha95grkggg4ogw@webmail1.abo.fi> Thank you to Dominik Wujastyk, Manu Francis and Rembert Lutjeharms who all sent me links to the missing files. Sincerely M?ns > See > > - > > http://list.indology.info/pipermail/indology_list.indology.info/2015-November/042369.html > > I can confirm that the Dropbox link still works as of this morning. > > -- > Professor Dominik Wujastyk* > Singhmar Chair in Classical Indian Society and Polity > Department of History and Classics > University of Alberta, Canada > > > ?sas.ualberta.ca? > > > On 30 September 2016 at 02:28, wrote: > >> >> Dear colleagues, >> >> A link to a huge file listing the Sanskrit mss catalogued by the NMM was >> posted on the Indology list some time ago. I downloaded the file but I have >> somehow managed to lose it. Is this file still available? >> >> Sincerely >> M?ns Broo >> >> -- >> Dr. M?ns Broo >> Senior Lecturer of Comparative Religion >> Editor of Temenos, Nordic Journal of Comparative Religion >> ?bo Akademi University >> Fabriksgatan 2 >> FI-20500 ?bo, Finland >> phone: +358-2-2154398 >> fax: +358-2-2154902 >> mobile: +358-50-5695754 >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> INDOLOGY mailing list >> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info >> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing >> committee) >> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or >> unsubscribe) >> > -- Dr. M?ns Broo Senior Lecturer of Comparative Religion Editor of Temenos, Nordic Journal of Comparative Religion ?bo Akademi University Fabriksgatan 2 FI-20500 ?bo, Finland phone: +358-2-2154398 fax: +358-2-2154902 mobile: +358-50-5695754 From mmdesh at umich.edu Tue Oct 4 19:09:45 2016 From: mmdesh at umich.edu (Madhav Deshpande) Date: Tue, 04 Oct 16 15:09:45 -0400 Subject: [INDOLOGY] satya In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Just for additional information, perhaps the oldest etymology for the word satya was offered by a grammarian named ??ka??yana. This is referred to by Y?ska in his Nirukta [1.13, 1.14], where we are told that ??ka??yana derived parts of a word from other words [padebhya? padetar?rdh?n sa?cask?ra ??ka??yana?]. ??ka??yana derives the "ya" of satya from the causative of the root "i" [ete? k?rita? ca yak?r?di? ca antakara?am], while he derives the "sat" of satya from the root "as" [aste? ?uddha? sak?r?di? ca]. It is not entirely clear what meaning ??ka??yana saw in this etymology. Nirukta [1.14] seems to suggest that there was no meaning connection between these elements thus derived, and it seems to fault ??ka??yana [atho etat padebhya? padetar?rdh?n sa?cask?ra iti / ya? ananvite sa?cask?ra, sa tena garhya?] for proposing an etymology with constituents that do not meaningfully relate to each other. ??ka??yana probably believed that all constituent elements proposed in an etymology need to be derived from a verb-root. Madhav Deshpande Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA On Mon, Oct 3, 2016 at 11:15 PM, Nityanand Misra wrote: > A member asked offline why there is no ?ja?tva? (?t? to ?d? change) by > ?jhal?? ja?o?nte? (A. 8.2.39) in sat + ya = satya, unlike in cases like > sat + yukti = sadyukti > sat + yoga = sadyoga > > I am copying the answer here too. The reason is that due to ?yaci bham? (A > 1.4.18), ?sat? in ?sat + ya? is not a ?pada? but a ?bha?. This is why > ?jhal?? ja?o?nte? is not applicable. ?yaci bham? does not apply in > ?sadyukti?, ?sadyoga?, etc. > > > On 3 October 2016 at 22:20, Howard Resnick
wrote: > >> Thank you. >> Howard >> >> On Oct 2, 2016, at 11:49 AM, Nityanand Misra wrote: >> >> The derivations I am aware of are >> >> sati s?dhu satyam >> sat + yat (*tatra s?dhu?*, A 4.4.98) = satya >> >> or >> >> sate/sadbhyo hita? satyam >> sat + yat (*tasmai hitam*, A 5.1.5) = satya >> >> >> >> On 2 October 2016 at 20:53, Howard Resnick
wrote: >> >>> Dear Scholars, >>> >>> Does the derivation of satya, truth, from ?sat? follow any >>> particular set of rules for derivative nouns? >>> >>> Thanks, >>> Howard >>> _______________________________________________ >>> INDOLOGY mailing list >>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info >>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing >>> committee) >>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options >>> or unsubscribe) >> >> >> >> >> -- >> Nity?nanda Mi?ra >> http://nmisra.googlepages.com >> >> >> > > > -- > Nity?nanda Mi?ra > http://nmisra.googlepages.com > > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing > committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or > unsubscribe) > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jpo at austin.utexas.edu Tue Oct 4 19:29:08 2016 From: jpo at austin.utexas.edu (Olivelle, J P) Date: Tue, 04 Oct 16 19:29:08 +0000 Subject: [INDOLOGY] satya In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <8B7D0326-BFAE-4070-97A0-A59C9FBAD670@austin.utexas.edu> This is quite interesting, Madhav. Even though Y?ska may not attach a meaning to the two roots from which ??ka??yana derives the word ?sat-ya?, I wonder whether there was a tradition of find a meaning in the term of ?taking someone to sat?. I was reminded of the B?had?ra?yaka Upani?ad (1.3.28) statement: asato m? sad gamaya, the latter being a causative of ?gam, which is a synonym of ?i. Patrick On Oct 4, 2016, at 2:09 PM, Madhav Deshpande > wrote: Just for additional information, perhaps the oldest etymology for the word satya was offered by a grammarian named ??ka??yana. This is referred to by Y?ska in his Nirukta [1.13, 1.14], where we are told that ??ka??yana derived parts of a word from other words [padebhya? padetar?rdh?n sa?cask?ra ??ka??yana?]. ??ka??yana derives the "ya" of satya from the causative of the root "i" [ete? k?rita? ca yak?r?di? ca antakara?am], while he derives the "sat" of satya from the root "as" [aste? ?uddha? sak?r?di? ca]. It is not entirely clear what meaning ??ka??yana saw in this etymology. Nirukta [1.14] seems to suggest that there was no meaning connection between these elements thus derived, and it seems to fault ??ka??yana [atho etat padebhya? padetar?rdh?n sa?cask?ra iti / ya? ananvite sa?cask?ra, sa tena garhya?] for proposing an etymology with constituents that do not meaningfully relate to each other. ??ka??yana probably believed that all constituent elements proposed in an etymology need to be derived from a verb-root. Madhav Deshpande Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA On Mon, Oct 3, 2016 at 11:15 PM, Nityanand Misra > wrote: A member asked offline why there is no ?ja?tva? (?t? to ?d? change) by ?jhal?? ja?o?nte? (A. 8.2.39) in sat + ya = satya, unlike in cases like sat + yukti = sadyukti sat + yoga = sadyoga I am copying the answer here too. The reason is that due to ?yaci bham? (A 1.4.18), ?sat? in ?sat + ya? is not a ?pada? but a ?bha?. This is why ?jhal?? ja?o?nte? is not applicable. ?yaci bham? does not apply in ?sadyukti?, ?sadyoga?, etc. On 3 October 2016 at 22:20, Howard Resnick
> wrote: Thank you. Howard On Oct 2, 2016, at 11:49 AM, Nityanand Misra > wrote: The derivations I am aware of are sati s?dhu satyam sat + yat (tatra s?dhu?, A 4.4.98) = satya or sate/sadbhyo hita? satyam sat + yat (tasmai hitam, A 5.1.5) = satya On 2 October 2016 at 20:53, Howard Resnick
> wrote: Dear Scholars, Does the derivation of satya, truth, from ?sat? follow any particular set of rules for derivative nouns? Thanks, Howard _______________________________________________ INDOLOGY mailing list INDOLOGY at list.indology.info indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) -- Nity?nanda Mi?ra http://nmisra.googlepages.com -- Nity?nanda Mi?ra http://nmisra.googlepages.com _______________________________________________ INDOLOGY mailing list INDOLOGY at list.indology.info indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) _______________________________________________ INDOLOGY mailing list INDOLOGY at list.indology.info indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mmdesh at umich.edu Tue Oct 4 19:32:59 2016 From: mmdesh at umich.edu (Madhav Deshpande) Date: Tue, 04 Oct 16 15:32:59 -0400 Subject: [INDOLOGY] satya In-Reply-To: <8B7D0326-BFAE-4070-97A0-A59C9FBAD670@austin.utexas.edu> Message-ID: Dear Patrick, You have pointed to the probable source for the etymology offered by ??ka??yana. "Sad gamaya" perfectly points to "sat + causative of i". Madhav On Tue, Oct 4, 2016 at 3:29 PM, Olivelle, J P wrote: > This is quite interesting, Madhav. Even though Y?ska may not attach a > meaning to the two roots from which ??ka??yana derives the word ?sat-ya?, I > wonder whether there was a tradition of find a meaning in the term of > ?taking someone to sat?. I was reminded of the B?had?ra?yaka Upani?ad > (1.3.28) statement: asato m? sad gamaya, the latter being a causative of > ?gam, which is a synonym of ?i. > > Patrick > > > > > On Oct 4, 2016, at 2:09 PM, Madhav Deshpande wrote: > > Just for additional information, perhaps the oldest etymology for the word > satya was offered by a grammarian named ??ka??yana. This is referred to by > Y?ska in his Nirukta [1.13, 1.14], where we are told that ??ka??yana > derived parts of a word from other words [padebhya? padetar?rdh?n > sa?cask?ra ??ka??yana?]. ??ka??yana derives the "ya" of satya from the > causative of the root "i" [ete? k?rita? ca yak?r?di? ca antakara?am], while > he derives the "sat" of satya from the root "as" [aste? ?uddha? sak?r?di? > ca]. It is not entirely clear what meaning ??ka??yana saw in this > etymology. Nirukta [1.14] seems to suggest that there was no meaning > connection between these elements thus derived, and it seems to fault > ??ka??yana [atho etat padebhya? padetar?rdh?n sa?cask?ra iti / ya? ananvite > sa?cask?ra, sa tena garhya?] for proposing an etymology with constituents > that do not meaningfully relate to each other. ??ka??yana probably > believed that all constituent elements proposed in an etymology need to be > derived from a verb-root. > > Madhav Deshpande > Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA > > On Mon, Oct 3, 2016 at 11:15 PM, Nityanand Misra wrote: > >> A member asked offline why there is no ?ja?tva? (?t? to ?d? change) by >> ?jhal?? ja?o?nte? (A. 8.2.39) in sat + ya = satya, unlike in cases like >> sat + yukti = sadyukti >> sat + yoga = sadyoga >> >> I am copying the answer here too. The reason is that due to ?yaci bham? >> (A 1.4.18), ?sat? in ?sat + ya? is not a ?pada? but a ?bha?. This is why >> ?jhal?? ja?o?nte? is not applicable. ?yaci bham? does not apply in >> ?sadyukti?, ?sadyoga?, etc. >> >> >> On 3 October 2016 at 22:20, Howard Resnick
wrote: >> >>> Thank you. >>> Howard >>> >>> On Oct 2, 2016, at 11:49 AM, Nityanand Misra wrote: >>> >>> The derivations I am aware of are >>> >>> sati s?dhu satyam >>> sat + yat (*tatra s?dhu?*, A 4.4.98) = satya >>> >>> or >>> >>> sate/sadbhyo hita? satyam >>> sat + yat (*tasmai hitam*, A 5.1.5) = satya >>> >>> >>> >>> On 2 October 2016 at 20:53, Howard Resnick
wrote: >>> >>>> Dear Scholars, >>>> >>>> Does the derivation of satya, truth, from ?sat? follow any >>>> particular set of rules for derivative nouns? >>>> >>>> Thanks, >>>> Howard >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> INDOLOGY mailing list >>>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info >>>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing >>>> committee) >>>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options >>>> or unsubscribe) >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Nity?nanda Mi?ra >>> http://nmisra.googlepages.com >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> -- >> Nity?nanda Mi?ra >> http://nmisra.googlepages.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> INDOLOGY mailing list >> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info >> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing >> committee) >> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or >> unsubscribe) >> > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing > committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or > unsubscribe) > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From hr at ivs.edu Wed Oct 5 07:28:24 2016 From: hr at ivs.edu (Howard Resnick) Date: Wed, 05 Oct 16 03:28:24 -0400 Subject: [INDOLOGY] satya In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Thanks for this information. Howard > On Oct 4, 2016, at 3:09 PM, Madhav Deshpande wrote: > > Just for additional information, perhaps the oldest etymology for the word satya was offered by a grammarian named ??ka??yana. This is referred to by Y?ska in his Nirukta [1.13, 1.14], where we are told that ??ka??yana derived parts of a word from other words [padebhya? padetar?rdh?n sa?cask?ra ??ka??yana?]. ??ka??yana derives the "ya" of satya from the causative of the root "i" [ete? k?rita? ca yak?r?di? ca antakara?am], while he derives the "sat" of satya from the root "as" [aste? ?uddha? sak?r?di? ca]. It is not entirely clear what meaning ??ka??yana saw in this etymology. Nirukta [1.14] seems to suggest that there was no meaning connection between these elements thus derived, and it seems to fault ??ka??yana [atho etat padebhya? padetar?rdh?n sa?cask?ra iti / ya? ananvite sa?cask?ra, sa tena garhya?] for proposing an etymology with constituents that do not meaningfully relate to each other. ??ka??yana probably believed that all constituent elements proposed in an etymology need to be derived from a verb-root. > > Madhav Deshpande > Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA > > On Mon, Oct 3, 2016 at 11:15 PM, Nityanand Misra > wrote: > A member asked offline why there is no ?ja?tva? (?t? to ?d? change) by ?jhal?? ja?o?nte? (A. 8.2.39) in sat + ya = satya, unlike in cases like > sat + yukti = sadyukti > sat + yoga = sadyoga > > I am copying the answer here too. The reason is that due to ?yaci bham? (A 1.4.18), ?sat? in ?sat + ya? is not a ?pada? but a ?bha?. This is why ?jhal?? ja?o?nte? is not applicable. ?yaci bham? does not apply in ?sadyukti?, ?sadyoga?, etc. > > > On 3 October 2016 at 22:20, Howard Resnick
> wrote: > Thank you. > Howard > >> On Oct 2, 2016, at 11:49 AM, Nityanand Misra > wrote: >> >> The derivations I am aware of are >> >> sati s?dhu satyam >> sat + yat (tatra s?dhu?, A 4.4.98) = satya >> >> or >> >> sate/sadbhyo hita? satyam >> sat + yat (tasmai hitam, A 5.1.5) = satya >> >> >> >> On 2 October 2016 at 20:53, Howard Resnick
> wrote: >> Dear Scholars, >> >> Does the derivation of satya, truth, from ?sat? follow any particular set of rules for derivative nouns? >> >> Thanks, >> Howard >> _______________________________________________ >> INDOLOGY mailing list >> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info >> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) >> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) >> >> >> >> -- >> Nity?nanda Mi?ra >> http://nmisra.googlepages.com >> > > > > > -- > Nity?nanda Mi?ra > http://nmisra.googlepages.com > > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From veerankp at gmail.com Wed Oct 5 10:28:14 2016 From: veerankp at gmail.com (Veeranarayana Pandurangi) Date: Wed, 05 Oct 16 15:58:14 +0530 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Roque Mesquita (1937-2016) In-Reply-To: <4C4C04E9-D15F-49A9-8310-1650C335860B@austin.utexas.edu> Message-ID: Yes. it is a loss. His critical writings have evoked interest/response in this matter from even those who (including me) did not agree with him. We will miss his responses to our critiques of his questions. On Tue, Oct 4, 2016 at 5:10 PM, Olivelle, J P wrote: > This is quite distressing news. I knew Roque and his family from the > mid-1970s, and the last time they had us over to their home was in 2001. He > was already sick when I visited Vienna a few years ago and could not meet > him. He was a kind and generous person and a fine scholar. We will miss him. > > Patrick Olivelle > > > > > On Oct 3, 2016, at 11:00 PM, Himal Trikha > wrote: > > > > Dear list members, > > > > This is to convey the sad news that Roque Mesquita of Vienna (?Madhva?s > Unknown Sources?) passed away peacefully on September 22nd after a long > illness. He leaves behind his wife Erika and their children Sushila, > Dominik and Sunanda. > > > > Born and educated in Goa, India, Roque deepened his theological > education at the Gregorian University, Rome, before taking up the study of > Indology at the University of Vienna with Gerhard Oberhammer. He initially > specialized in Vi?i???dvaita?ve?d?n?ta and completed his doctoral > dissertation (1971) and habilitation (1988) on Y?muna, particularly on the > Sa?vitsiddhi. > > > > Roque was a member of the faculty of the Institute for Indology from > 1972 until his retirement in 2002. He studied Madhva?s works from the > mid-nineties onwards, publishing several monographs and engaging in lively > discussions on his research as long as his health permitted. His last > article ?Rejoinder II: Madhva's Unknown Literary Sources? appeared in 2014 > in the Rivista di Studi Orientali 87. His final book was seen through the > press by his family: ?Studies on Madhva?s Vi??utattvanir?aya?, New Delhi: > Aditya Prakashan 2016, 308 pages. > > > > Indologists from Vienna have lost a dear and gentle colleague and a > patient teacher of Sanskrit: Roque was in charge of the introductory > Sanskrit courses for decades and many of us learned to love and respect > this language through him. > > > > His friendly and good-spirited nature will be very much missed. > > > > Himal Trikha > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > INDOLOGY mailing list > > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing > committee) > > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options > or unsubscribe) > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing > committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or > unsubscribe) > -- Veeranarayana N.K. Pandurangi Director of Academics Dean, Faculty of Vedantas Karnakata Samskrita University, Pampa Mahakavi Road, Chamarajpet, Bengaluru. ?? ??????????? ??????? ???????? ? ????????? ??? ???????? ??????? ? ?????? ??????????????? ?????????????? ??????? ??????? ??????????? ??????????????? ?????? ???????? ??????????? (?.??.) http://www.ksu.ac.in http://www.ksu.ac.in/en/dr-veeranarayana-n-k-pandurangi/ https://groups.google.com/forum/?hl=en&fromgroups#!forum/bvparishat -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From josephine.brill at gmail.com Wed Oct 5 10:31:56 2016 From: josephine.brill at gmail.com (Jo Brill) Date: Wed, 05 Oct 16 05:31:56 -0500 Subject: =?utf-8?Q?[INDOLOGY]_vid=C5=AB=E1=B9=A3aka=3F?= Message-ID: Dear friends, I have been asked whether vid??aka could be derived from the vidv??s, the perfect participle made with kvasu ? to mean something like ?little genius? or ?wiseacre? or ?smart alec.? It is a fun idea, and in a way more appealing than the dictionary definition of ?wicked person,? ?corrupter? (from vi-?du?+?ic+?vul). But, I don?t see any P??inian way, at least, to lengthen the ? in the course of such a derivation; sampras?ra?a via 6.4.131 instead yields short u. Can anyone shed light? Perhaps some writers or commentators in the dramaturgical literature offer etymologies for technical terms? Many thanks, and apologies for the naive errors I have likely made. Jo -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From josephine.brill at gmail.com Wed Oct 5 12:41:34 2016 From: josephine.brill at gmail.com (Jo Brill) Date: Wed, 05 Oct 16 07:41:34 -0500 Subject: =?utf-8?Q?[INDOLOGY]_clearer_Q_re:_vid=C5=AB=E1=B9=A3aka=3F?= Message-ID: Apologies to list members for my confused second paragraph. To clarify my questions -- 1. Is there a P??inian way to derive vid??aka from vidv??s, given that sampras?ra?a gives a short u where we want a long one? I don't think so, but ... 2. Is there any other way to derive vid??aka from vidv??s -- perhaps involving some speculative etymologizing? Many thanks to Professor Cardona for filling out the derivation of vid??aka from the causative of ?du?. In this prakriy?, the required long ? comes nicely from 6.4.90, do?o ?au. Thank you again, Jo On Wed, Oct 5, 2016 at 5:31 AM, Jo Brill wrote: > Dear friends, > > > I have been asked whether vid??aka could be derived from the vidv??s, the > perfect participle made with kvasu ? to mean something like ?little genius? > or ?wiseacre? or ?smart alec.? > > > It is a fun idea, and in a way more appealing than the dictionary > definition of ?wicked person,? ?corrupter? (from vi-?du?+?ic+?vul). But, I > don?t see any P??inian way, at least, to lengthen the ? in the course of > such a derivation; sampras?ra?a via 6.4.131 instead yields short u. > > > Can anyone shed light? Perhaps some writers or commentators in the > dramaturgical literature offer etymologies for technical terms? > > > Many thanks, and apologies for the naive errors I have likely made. > > > Jo > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mmdesh at umich.edu Wed Oct 5 12:52:57 2016 From: mmdesh at umich.edu (Madhav Deshpande) Date: Wed, 05 Oct 16 08:52:57 -0400 Subject: =?utf-8?Q?[INDOLOGY]_Fwd:__clearer_Q_re:_vid=C5=AB=E1=B9=A3aka=3F?= In-Reply-To: Message-ID: ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Madhav Deshpande Date: Wed, Oct 5, 2016 at 8:52 AM Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] clearer Q re: vid??aka? To: Jo Brill Hi Jo, An etymologically related word vid??ita is widely attested, and goes nicely with the causative derivation proposed by Professor Cardona for the word vid??aka. Madhav Deshpande On Wed, Oct 5, 2016 at 8:41 AM, Jo Brill wrote: > Apologies to list members for my confused second paragraph. To clarify my > questions -- > > 1. Is there a P??inian way to derive vid??aka from vidv??s, given that > sampras?ra?a gives a short u where we want a long one? I don't think so, > but ... > 2. Is there any other way to derive vid??aka from vidv??s -- perhaps > involving some speculative etymologizing? > > Many thanks to Professor Cardona for filling out the derivation of > vid??aka from the causative of ?du?. In this prakriy?, the required long ? > comes nicely from 6.4.90, do?o ?au. > > Thank you again, > Jo > > On Wed, Oct 5, 2016 at 5:31 AM, Jo Brill > wrote: > >> Dear friends, >> >> >> I have been asked whether vid??aka could be derived from the vidv??s, the >> perfect participle made with kvasu ? to mean something like ?little genius? >> or ?wiseacre? or ?smart alec.? >> >> >> It is a fun idea, and in a way more appealing than the dictionary >> definition of ?wicked person,? ?corrupter? (from vi-?du?+?ic+?vul). But, I >> don?t see any P??inian way, at least, to lengthen the ? in the course of >> such a derivation; sampras?ra?a via 6.4.131 instead yields short u. >> >> >> Can anyone shed light? Perhaps some writers or commentators in the >> dramaturgical literature offer etymologies for technical terms? >> >> >> Many thanks, and apologies for the naive errors I have likely made. >> >> >> Jo >> > > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing > committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or > unsubscribe) > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From baums at lmu.de Wed Oct 5 13:38:48 2016 From: baums at lmu.de (Stefan Baums) Date: Wed, 05 Oct 16 15:38:48 +0200 Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_[INDOLOGY]_clearer_Q_re:_vid=C5=AB=E1=B9=A3aka=3F?= In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20161005133848.GB8234@deepthought> Dear Jo, > Is there any other way to derive vid??aka from > vidv??s -- perhaps involving some speculative > etymologizing? J.C. Wright suggested just such a derivation via Middle Indo?Aryan on p. 21 of his 1965 (published 1966) SOAS inaugural lecture (?Non?Classical Sanskrit Literature?): Other features, notably the highly stereotyped figure of the pedant (Sanskritized vid??aka, i.e. vid?s, Prakrit vid?), and the basic structure of the dramatic genre, reflected to some extent in the theory and practice of classical K?vya, will have a more distant origin [i.e., more distant than Buddhist literature]. (This is the passage referred to from Mayrhofers KEWA s.v. vid??aka? with the unresolved abbreviation ?Wright, NCSL 21?.) All best, Stefan -- Dr. Stefan Baums Institute for Indian and Tibetan Studies Ludwig Maximilian University of Munich From Palaniappa at aol.com Wed Oct 5 16:02:34 2016 From: Palaniappa at aol.com (Sudalaimuthu Palaniappan) Date: Wed, 05 Oct 16 11:02:34 -0500 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Indologist at Center of Sexual Harassment Mess at Berkeley In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <8417D077-C402-4FEA-87A1-039E336132A7@aol.com> The case of Blake Wentworth might have played a part in the following story regarding another South Asia specialist. http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-uc-berkeley-chancellor-resign-20160816-snap-story.html Regards, Palaniappan > On Sep 29, 2016, at 10:52 AM, Audrey Truschke wrote: > > Dear Colleagues, > > List members may be interested in an ongoing sexual harassment scandal at UC Berkeley involving an Indologist, Blake Wentworth. > > Wentworth, who works on classical Tamil literature, was found guilty of sexual harassment and misconduct last year by the university, and three of his victims came forward with details of the case (here and here ) after being frustrated with delays in firing Wentworth. > > Now Wentworth is trying to silence the women he harassed with a defamation lawsuit (here ). > > As many of you know, sexual harassment is an ongoing issue in many disciplines, and our corner of the academy, it seems, is no exception. > > Audrey Truschke > Assistant Professor > Department of History > Rutgers University-Newark > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From andrea.pinkney at mcgill.ca Wed Oct 5 16:09:23 2016 From: andrea.pinkney at mcgill.ca (Andrea Marion Pinkney, Prof) Date: Wed, 05 Oct 16 16:09:23 +0000 Subject: [INDOLOGY] McGill University: Position in South Asian Religions Message-ID: Dear Colleagues, I am very pleased to announce an open position in South Asian religions at McGill University, as described below. Applications will be reviewed from 1 December 2016, and may be submitted online here: https://academicjobsonline.org/ajo/jobs/8159 Please share this announcement widely, directing any queries to me (andrea.pinkney at mcgill.ca) or to Ms. Francesca Maniaci, Administrative Officer, School of Religious Studies (francesca.maniaci at mcgill.ca). With best wishes, Andrea Andrea Marion Pinkney Associate Professor School of Religious Studies McGill University _________________________________________ POSITION IN SOUTH ASIAN RELIGIONS McGILL UNIVERSITY The School of Religious Studies at McGill University, Montreal, Canada, invites applications for a tenure-track faculty position in the area of South Asian Religions at the rank of Assistant Professor, but exceptionally qualified candidates may be considered at the Associate level. We seek a dynamic colleague capable of expanding and enriching an already strong program in Asian Religions at McGill who is prepared to teach at undergraduate and graduate levels. This position calls for specialisation in the study of South Asian Religions alongside substantive engagement with the wider fields of Religious Studies and South Asian Studies, including relevant theoretical and methodological approaches. Preference will be given to candidates who have an excellent overall research profile; research competence in at least two South Asian languages, ideally, one modern and one classical; and the ability to teach broad courses that cover South Asian religious traditions in interreligious and regional perspectives. The candidate will also be expected to contribute to graduate seminars in theory and method offered by the School of Religious Studies. The appointment is available from 1 July 2017. The candidate is expected to have received the PhD prior to appointment. Applications should be received by 30 November 2016 to guarantee full consideration, but will be accepted until the position is filled. For more information on the Asian Religions Area in the Faculty of Arts, visit our website: http://ara.mcgill.ca/ ; For further information about the School of Religious Studies, visit: http://www.mcgill.ca/religiousstudies/ Applicants should submit the following: a letter of application (addressing qualifications, research, and teaching interests); a Curriculum Vitae; relevant teaching materials; three letters of recommendation; and one representative writing sample or scholarly publication. All materials, including referees? letters of recommendation, must be submitted electronically to the Academic Jobs Online website (https://academicjobsonline.org/ajo/jobs/8159). Inquiries may be addressed to Ms. F. Maniaci, Acting Administrative Officer, School of Religious Studies (francesca.maniaci at mcgill.ca), or to the chair of the search committee, Professor A. M. Pinkney (andrea.pinkney at mcgill.ca), McGill University is committed to diversity and equity in employment. It welcomes applications from: women, Aboriginal persons, persons with disabilities, ethnic minorities, persons of minority sexual orientation or gender identity, visible minorities, and others who may contribute to diversification. All qualified applicants are encouraged to apply; however, in accordance with Canadian immigration requirements, Canadians and permanent residents will be given priority. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From martin.gansten at pbhome.se Wed Oct 5 16:19:05 2016 From: martin.gansten at pbhome.se (Martin Gansten) Date: Wed, 05 Oct 16 18:19:05 +0200 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Bhuktitraya Message-ID: In an astrological text, a certain beneficial configuration is said to give /bhuktitrayasampad?dika? r?j?a?/. Could anyone cast light on what constitutes the three kinds of bhukti? Many thanks in advance, Martin Gansten -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From slaje at kabelmail.de Wed Oct 5 17:36:03 2016 From: slaje at kabelmail.de (Walter Slaje) Date: Wed, 05 Oct 16 19:36:03 +0200 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Indologist at Center of Sexual Harassment Mess at Berkeley In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Will someone from among the list's managing committee please step in and prevent prospective gossips from turning this list into a tabloid? Thanking you, WS ----------------------------- Prof. Dr. Walter Slaje Hermann-L?ns-Str. 1 D-99425 Weimar Deutschland Ego ex animi mei sententia spondeo ac polliceor studia humanitatis impigro labore culturum et provecturum non sordidi lucri causa nec ad vanam captandam gloriam, sed quo magis veritas propagetur et lux eius, qua salus humani generis continetur, clarius effulgeat. Vindobonae, die XXI. mensis Novembris MCMLXXXIII. 2016-10-05 18:03 GMT+02:00 Sudalaimuthu Palaniappan via INDOLOGY < indology at list.indology.info>: > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing > committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or > unsubscribe) > > ---------- Weitergeleitete Nachricht ---------- > From: Sudalaimuthu Palaniappan > To: Audrey Truschke > Cc: Indology List > Date: Wed, 5 Oct 2016 11:02:34 -0500 > Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] Indologist at Center of Sexual Harassment Mess at > Berkeley > The case of Blake Wentworth might have played a part in the following > story regarding another South Asia specialist. > > http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-uc-berkeley- > chancellor-resign-20160816-snap-story.html > > Regards, > Palaniappan > > > On Sep 29, 2016, at 10:52 AM, Audrey Truschke > wrote: > > Dear Colleagues, > > List members may be interested in an ongoing sexual harassment scandal at > UC Berkeley involving an Indologist, Blake Wentworth. > > Wentworth, who works on classical Tamil literature, was found guilty of > sexual harassment and misconduct last year by the university, and three of > his victims came forward with details of the case (here > > and here > ) > after being frustrated with delays in firing Wentworth. > > Now Wentworth is trying to silence the women he harassed with a defamation > lawsuit (here > > ). > > As many of you know, sexual harassment is an ongoing issue in many > disciplines, and our corner of the academy, it seems, is no exception. > > Audrey Truschke > Assistant Professor > Department of History > Rutgers University-Newark > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing > committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or > unsubscribe) > > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From audrey.truschke at gmail.com Wed Oct 5 17:49:53 2016 From: audrey.truschke at gmail.com (Audrey Truschke) Date: Wed, 05 Oct 16 13:49:53 -0400 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Indologist at Center of Sexual Harassment Mess at Berkeley In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Everything shared on this thread has been reported in the mainstream media, not tabloids. I think that Indologists should be interested in the Blake Wentworth sexual harassment scandal, not because it's sensational, but because sexual harassment is a serious problem in our discipline and the academy more widely. It's a hard truth, but a reality that affects many of us, especially women. Audrey Audrey Truschke Assistant Professor Department of History Rutgers University-Newark On Wed, Oct 5, 2016 at 1:36 PM, Walter Slaje wrote: > Will someone from among the list's managing committee please step in and > prevent prospective gossips from turning this list into a tabloid? > > > > Thanking you, > > WS > > ----------------------------- > Prof. Dr. Walter Slaje > Hermann-L?ns-Str. 1 > D-99425 Weimar > Deutschland > > Ego ex animi mei sententia spondeo ac polliceor > studia humanitatis impigro labore culturum et provecturum > non sordidi lucri causa nec ad vanam captandam gloriam, > sed quo magis veritas propagetur et lux eius, qua salus > humani generis continetur, clarius effulgeat. > Vindobonae, die XXI. mensis Novembris MCMLXXXIII. > > > > 2016-10-05 18:03 GMT+02:00 Sudalaimuthu Palaniappan via INDOLOGY < > indology at list.indology.info>: > >> _______________________________________________ >> INDOLOGY mailing list >> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info >> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing >> committee) >> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or >> unsubscribe) >> >> ---------- Weitergeleitete Nachricht ---------- >> From: Sudalaimuthu Palaniappan >> To: Audrey Truschke >> Cc: Indology List >> Date: Wed, 5 Oct 2016 11:02:34 -0500 >> Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] Indologist at Center of Sexual Harassment Mess at >> Berkeley >> The case of Blake Wentworth might have played a part in the following >> story regarding another South Asia specialist. >> >> http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-uc-berkeley-chan >> cellor-resign-20160816-snap-story.html >> >> Regards, >> Palaniappan >> >> >> On Sep 29, 2016, at 10:52 AM, Audrey Truschke >> wrote: >> >> Dear Colleagues, >> >> List members may be interested in an ongoing sexual harassment scandal at >> UC Berkeley involving an Indologist, Blake Wentworth. >> >> Wentworth, who works on classical Tamil literature, was found guilty of >> sexual harassment and misconduct last year by the university, and three of >> his victims came forward with details of the case (here >> >> and here >> ) >> after being frustrated with delays in firing Wentworth. >> >> Now Wentworth is trying to silence the women he harassed with a >> defamation lawsuit (here >> >> ). >> >> As many of you know, sexual harassment is an ongoing issue in many >> disciplines, and our corner of the academy, it seems, is no exception. >> >> Audrey Truschke >> Assistant Professor >> Department of History >> Rutgers University-Newark >> _______________________________________________ >> INDOLOGY mailing list >> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info >> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing >> committee) >> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or >> unsubscribe) >> >> >> >> > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From karp at uw.edu.pl Wed Oct 5 17:56:19 2016 From: karp at uw.edu.pl (Artur Karp) Date: Wed, 05 Oct 16 19:56:19 +0200 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Indologist at Center of Sexual Harassment Mess at Berkeley In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Dear Walter, my support - wholeheartedly, Artur Karp (ret.) University of Warsaw Poland 2016-10-05 19:36 GMT+02:00 Walter Slaje : > Will someone from among the list's managing committee please step in and > prevent prospective gossips from turning this list into a tabloid? > > > > Thanking you, > > WS > > ----------------------------- > Prof. Dr. Walter Slaje > Hermann-L?ns-Str. 1 > D-99425 Weimar > Deutschland > > Ego ex animi mei sententia spondeo ac polliceor > studia humanitatis impigro labore culturum et provecturum > non sordidi lucri causa nec ad vanam captandam gloriam, > sed quo magis veritas propagetur et lux eius, qua salus > humani generis continetur, clarius effulgeat. > Vindobonae, die XXI. mensis Novembris MCMLXXXIII. > > > > 2016-10-05 18:03 GMT+02:00 Sudalaimuthu Palaniappan via INDOLOGY < > indology at list.indology.info>: > >> _______________________________________________ >> INDOLOGY mailing list >> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info >> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing >> committee) >> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or >> unsubscribe) >> >> ---------- Weitergeleitete Nachricht ---------- >> From: Sudalaimuthu Palaniappan >> To: Audrey Truschke >> Cc: Indology List >> Date: Wed, 5 Oct 2016 11:02:34 -0500 >> Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] Indologist at Center of Sexual Harassment Mess at >> Berkeley >> The case of Blake Wentworth might have played a part in the following >> story regarding another South Asia specialist. >> >> http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-uc-berkeley-chan >> cellor-resign-20160816-snap-story.html >> >> Regards, >> Palaniappan >> >> >> On Sep 29, 2016, at 10:52 AM, Audrey Truschke >> wrote: >> >> Dear Colleagues, >> >> List members may be interested in an ongoing sexual harassment scandal at >> UC Berkeley involving an Indologist, Blake Wentworth. >> >> Wentworth, who works on classical Tamil literature, was found guilty of >> sexual harassment and misconduct last year by the university, and three of >> his victims came forward with details of the case (here >> >> and here >> ) >> after being frustrated with delays in firing Wentworth. >> >> Now Wentworth is trying to silence the women he harassed with a >> defamation lawsuit (here >> >> ). >> >> As many of you know, sexual harassment is an ongoing issue in many >> disciplines, and our corner of the academy, it seems, is no exception. >> >> Audrey Truschke >> Assistant Professor >> Department of History >> Rutgers University-Newark >> _______________________________________________ >> INDOLOGY mailing list >> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info >> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing >> committee) >> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or >> unsubscribe) >> >> >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing > committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or > unsubscribe) > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From hr at ivs.edu Wed Oct 5 18:46:18 2016 From: hr at ivs.edu (Howard Resnick) Date: Wed, 05 Oct 16 14:46:18 -0400 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Indologist at Center of Sexual Harassment Mess at Berkeley In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Thank you Audrey. Howard > On Oct 5, 2016, at 1:49 PM, Audrey Truschke wrote: > > Everything shared on this thread has been reported in the mainstream media, not tabloids. > > I think that Indologists should be interested in the Blake Wentworth sexual harassment scandal, not because it's sensational, but because sexual harassment is a serious problem in our discipline and the academy more widely. It's a hard truth, but a reality that affects many of us, especially women. > > Audrey > > Audrey Truschke > Assistant Professor > Department of History > Rutgers University-Newark > > On Wed, Oct 5, 2016 at 1:36 PM, Walter Slaje > wrote: > Will someone from among the list's managing committee please step in and prevent prospective gossips from turning this list into a tabloid? > > > Thanking you, > > WS > > > ----------------------------- > Prof. Dr. Walter Slaje > Hermann-L?ns-Str. 1 > D-99425 Weimar > Deutschland > > Ego ex animi mei sententia spondeo ac polliceor > studia humanitatis impigro labore culturum et provecturum > non sordidi lucri causa nec ad vanam captandam gloriam, > sed quo magis veritas propagetur et lux eius, qua salus > humani generis continetur, clarius effulgeat. > Vindobonae, die XXI. mensis Novembris MCMLXXXIII. > > > > 2016-10-05 18:03 GMT+02:00 Sudalaimuthu Palaniappan via INDOLOGY >: > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) > > ---------- Weitergeleitete Nachricht ---------- > From: Sudalaimuthu Palaniappan > > To: Audrey Truschke > > Cc: Indology List > > Date: Wed, 5 Oct 2016 11:02:34 -0500 > Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] Indologist at Center of Sexual Harassment Mess at Berkeley > The case of Blake Wentworth might have played a part in the following story regarding another South Asia specialist. > > http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-uc-berkeley-chancellor-resign-20160816-snap-story.html > > Regards, > Palaniappan > > >> On Sep 29, 2016, at 10:52 AM, Audrey Truschke > wrote: >> >> Dear Colleagues, >> >> List members may be interested in an ongoing sexual harassment scandal at UC Berkeley involving an Indologist, Blake Wentworth. >> >> Wentworth, who works on classical Tamil literature, was found guilty of sexual harassment and misconduct last year by the university, and three of his victims came forward with details of the case (here and here ) after being frustrated with delays in firing Wentworth. >> >> Now Wentworth is trying to silence the women he harassed with a defamation lawsuit (here ). >> >> As many of you know, sexual harassment is an ongoing issue in many disciplines, and our corner of the academy, it seems, is no exception. >> >> Audrey Truschke >> Assistant Professor >> Department of History >> Rutgers University-Newark >> _______________________________________________ >> INDOLOGY mailing list >> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info >> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) >> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) > > > > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rhododaktylos at gmail.com Wed Oct 5 18:56:41 2016 From: rhododaktylos at gmail.com (Antonia Ruppel) Date: Wed, 05 Oct 16 19:56:41 +0100 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Indologist at Center of Sexual Harassment Mess at Berkeley In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Dear Audrey, Many thanks for the links and the excellent overview. You're absolutely right that we need to be aware of what is going on. Whenever something like this comes to light about someone who is a colleague or perhaps even a friend, it is shocking and uncomfortable. Still, the more information we have, the better we are able to find the right side to be on here. (And yes, I think that unfortunately there are sides here, and many of us close enough to the situation need to choose one.) All best, Antonia On 29 September 2016 at 16:52, Audrey Truschke wrote: > Dear Colleagues, > > List members may be interested in an ongoing sexual harassment scandal at > UC Berkeley involving an Indologist, Blake Wentworth. > > Wentworth, who works on classical Tamil literature, was found guilty of > sexual harassment and misconduct last year by the university, and three of > his victims came forward with details of the case (here > > and here > ) > after being frustrated with delays in firing Wentworth. > > Now Wentworth is trying to silence the women he harassed with a defamation > lawsuit (here > > ). > > As many of you know, sexual harassment is an ongoing issue in many > disciplines, and our corner of the academy, it seems, is no exception. > > Audrey Truschke > Assistant Professor > Department of History > Rutgers University-Newark > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing > committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or > unsubscribe) > -- Antonia Ruppel Richmond (UK) Out soon: The Cambridge Introduction to Sanskrit http://www.cambridge.org/ir/academic/subjects/religion/buddhism-and-eastern- religions/cambridge-introduction-sanskrit -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From james.stewart at lankamail.com Wed Oct 5 23:03:49 2016 From: james.stewart at lankamail.com (James Stewart) Date: Thu, 06 Oct 16 10:03:49 +1100 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Indologist at Center of Sexual Harassment Mess at Berkeley In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <044B2B69-29B8-47AE-B0AD-763EFE58230C@lankamail.com> Dear Audrey First, thank you for raising this matter. I agree that it is vital that there is increased awareness around sexual harassment which is rampant in academia. Second, it is a trope of sexual harassment claims that they are casually dismissed as mere gossip, even when there is strong evidence to the contrary. Pity this has occurred on this list too. Regards James Sent from my iPhone > On 6 Oct 2016, at 5:56 AM, Antonia Ruppel wrote: > > Dear Audrey, > > Many thanks for the links and the excellent overview. You're absolutely right that we need to be aware of what is going on. Whenever something like this comes to light about someone who is a colleague or perhaps even a friend, it is shocking and uncomfortable. Still, the more information we have, the better we are able to find the right side to be on here. (And yes, I think that unfortunately there are sides here, and many of us close enough to the situation need to choose one.) > > All best, > Antonia > >> On 29 September 2016 at 16:52, Audrey Truschke wrote: >> Dear Colleagues, >> >> List members may be interested in an ongoing sexual harassment scandal at UC Berkeley involving an Indologist, Blake Wentworth. >> >> Wentworth, who works on classical Tamil literature, was found guilty of sexual harassment and misconduct last year by the university, and three of his victims came forward with details of the case (here and here) after being frustrated with delays in firing Wentworth. >> >> Now Wentworth is trying to silence the women he harassed with a defamation lawsuit (here). >> >> As many of you know, sexual harassment is an ongoing issue in many disciplines, and our corner of the academy, it seems, is no exception. >> >> Audrey Truschke >> Assistant Professor >> Department of History >> Rutgers University-Newark >> >> _______________________________________________ >> INDOLOGY mailing list >> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info >> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) >> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) > > > > -- > Antonia Ruppel > Richmond (UK) > > Out soon: The Cambridge Introduction to Sanskrit > http://www.cambridge.org/ir/academic/subjects/religion/buddhism-and-eastern-religions/cambridge-introduction-sanskrit > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From franceschini.marco at fastwebnet.it Wed Oct 5 23:14:29 2016 From: franceschini.marco at fastwebnet.it (Marco Franceschini) Date: Thu, 06 Oct 16 01:14:29 +0200 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Indologist at Center of Sexual Harassment Mess at Berkeley In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Thank you, Audrey. Best wishes, Marco --- Marco Franceschini ??????????? Fixed-term Researcher University of Bologna Department of History and Cultures via Zamboni 33 - 40126 Bologna - Italy marco.franceschini3 at unibo.it --- Il giorno 05/ott/2016, alle ore 19:49, Audrey Truschke ha scritto: > Everything shared on this thread has been reported in the mainstream media, not tabloids. > > I think that Indologists should be interested in the Blake Wentworth sexual harassment scandal, not because it's sensational, but because sexual harassment is a serious problem in our discipline and the academy more widely. It's a hard truth, but a reality that affects many of us, especially women. > > Audrey > > Audrey Truschke > Assistant Professor > Department of History > Rutgers University-Newark > > On Wed, Oct 5, 2016 at 1:36 PM, Walter Slaje wrote: > Will someone from among the list's managing committee please step in and prevent prospective gossips from turning this list into a tabloid? > > > Thanking you, > > WS > > > ----------------------------- > Prof. Dr. Walter Slaje > Hermann-L?ns-Str. 1 > D-99425 Weimar > Deutschland > > Ego ex animi mei sententia spondeo ac polliceor > studia humanitatis impigro labore culturum et provecturum > non sordidi lucri causa nec ad vanam captandam gloriam, > sed quo magis veritas propagetur et lux eius, qua salus > humani generis continetur, clarius effulgeat. > Vindobonae, die XXI. mensis Novembris MCMLXXXIII. > > > > 2016-10-05 18:03 GMT+02:00 Sudalaimuthu Palaniappan via INDOLOGY : > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) > > ---------- Weitergeleitete Nachricht ---------- > From: Sudalaimuthu Palaniappan > To: Audrey Truschke > Cc: Indology List > Date: Wed, 5 Oct 2016 11:02:34 -0500 > Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] Indologist at Center of Sexual Harassment Mess at Berkeley > The case of Blake Wentworth might have played a part in the following story regarding another South Asia specialist. > > http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-uc-berkeley-chancellor-resign-20160816-snap-story.html > > Regards, > Palaniappan > > >> On Sep 29, 2016, at 10:52 AM, Audrey Truschke wrote: >> >> Dear Colleagues, >> >> List members may be interested in an ongoing sexual harassment scandal at UC Berkeley involving an Indologist, Blake Wentworth. >> >> Wentworth, who works on classical Tamil literature, was found guilty of sexual harassment and misconduct last year by the university, and three of his victims came forward with details of the case (here and here) after being frustrated with delays in firing Wentworth. >> >> Now Wentworth is trying to silence the women he harassed with a defamation lawsuit (here). >> >> As many of you know, sexual harassment is an ongoing issue in many disciplines, and our corner of the academy, it seems, is no exception. >> >> Audrey Truschke >> Assistant Professor >> Department of History >> Rutgers University-Newark >> _______________________________________________ >> INDOLOGY mailing list >> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info >> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) >> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) > > > > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From slaje at kabelmail.de Thu Oct 6 06:19:05 2016 From: slaje at kabelmail.de (Walter Slaje) Date: Thu, 06 Oct 16 08:19:05 +0200 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Indologist at Center of Sexual Harassment Mess at Berkeley In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Might I draw the gentle readership?s attention to the purpose of this list as published on their guidelines page (http://listinfo.indology.info/): INDOLOGY forum for Classical South Asian studies: INDOLOGY is an internet discussion group whose primary purpose is to provide a *forum* for discussion *among professional scholars of classical Indian* (South Asian) *civilization*. *The central focus of the list is the history and culture of ancient and classical India* [...] It is clear from this statement ? but also from the general practice followed so far by its members ? that the list is to focus on research pertaining to ?ancient and classical India? ? but not to pursuing the immoral conduct of selected American South Asianists. To this day it has served the purely scholarly purpose very well indeed. I am concerned that the shift now introduced towards naming and shaming is not only a violation of the guidelines above, but will undermine the reputation of the list and make scholars, who feel disgusted by public pillorying, turn away from it. After all, it is for the courts to assess, for the media to publicize, and for the tabloids to expose. I can see no scholarship in any of it which would befit this list. It is certainly legitimate to take an interest in the morals of South Asian scholars. Whoever does so and considers the issue important enough might perhaps want to establish something like The American South Asianists Immorality Discussion Forum. I really don?t think we should subscribe to such news feed here on this list. Regards, WS ?? 2016-10-05 20:56 GMT+02:00 Antonia Ruppel : > Dear Audrey, > > Many thanks for the links and the excellent overview. You're absolutely > right that we need to be aware of what is going on. Whenever something like > this comes to light about someone who is a colleague or perhaps even a > friend, it is shocking and uncomfortable. Still, the more information we > have, the better we are able to find the right side to be on here. (And > yes, I think that unfortunately there are sides here, and many of us close > enough to the situation need to choose one.) > > All best, > Antonia > > On 29 September 2016 at 16:52, Audrey Truschke > wrote: > >> Dear Colleagues, >> >> List members may be interested in an ongoing sexual harassment scandal at >> UC Berkeley involving an Indologist, Blake Wentworth. >> >> Wentworth, who works on classical Tamil literature, was found guilty of >> sexual harassment and misconduct last year by the university, and three of >> his victims came forward with details of the case (here >> >> and here >> ) >> after being frustrated with delays in firing Wentworth. >> >> Now Wentworth is trying to silence the women he harassed with a >> defamation lawsuit (here >> >> ). >> >> As many of you know, sexual harassment is an ongoing issue in many >> disciplines, and our corner of the academy, it seems, is no exception. >> >> Audrey Truschke >> Assistant Professor >> Department of History >> Rutgers University-Newark >> >> _______________________________________________ >> INDOLOGY mailing list >> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info >> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing >> committee) >> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or >> unsubscribe) >> > > > > -- > Antonia Ruppel > Richmond (UK) > > Out soon: The Cambridge Introduction to Sanskrit > http://www.cambridge.org/ir/academic/subjects/religion/buddh > ism-and-eastern-religions/cambridge-introduction-sanskrit > > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing > committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or > unsubscribe) > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From james.stewart at lankamail.com Thu Oct 6 07:05:14 2016 From: james.stewart at lankamail.com (James Stewart) Date: Thu, 06 Oct 16 18:05:14 +1100 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Indologist at Center of Sexual Harassment Mess at Berkeley In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <2098B000-7BD1-4CCC-9CF7-A644CCF09A24@lankamail.com> Dear Walter, While I appreciate your point I should draw your attention to the fact that there have been vigorous discussions about censorship in India, a matter that pertains to contemporary Indology but is not explicit concerned with the "history and culture of ancient and classical India." I don't recall members being quick to shut down that discussion. Regards James Sent from my iPhone > On 6 Oct 2016, at 5:19 PM, Walter Slaje wrote: > > Might I draw the gentle readership?s attention to the purpose of this list as published on their guidelines page (http://listinfo.indology.info/): > > > > INDOLOGY forum for Classical South Asian studies: > > INDOLOGY is an internet discussion group whose primary purpose is to provide a forum for discussion among professional scholars of classical Indian (South Asian) civilization. The central focus of the list is the history and culture of ancient and classical India [...] > > > > It is clear from this statement ? but also from the general practice followed so far by its members ? that the list is to focus on research pertaining to ?ancient and classical India? ? but not to pursuing the immoral conduct of selected American South Asianists. To this day it has served the purely scholarly purpose very well indeed. > > > > I am concerned that the shift now introduced towards naming and shaming is not only a violation of the guidelines above, but will undermine the reputation of the list and make scholars, who feel disgusted by public pillorying, turn away from it. After all, it is for the courts to assess, for the media to publicize, and for the tabloids to expose. > > I can see no scholarship in any of it which would befit this list. > > > > It is certainly legitimate to take an interest in the morals of South Asian scholars. Whoever does so and considers the issue important enough might perhaps want to establish something like The American South Asianists Immorality Discussion Forum. I really don?t think we should subscribe to such news feed here on this list. > > > > Regards, > > WS > > ?? > > 2016-10-05 20:56 GMT+02:00 Antonia Ruppel : >> Dear Audrey, >> >> Many thanks for the links and the excellent overview. You're absolutely right that we need to be aware of what is going on. Whenever something like this comes to light about someone who is a colleague or perhaps even a friend, it is shocking and uncomfortable. Still, the more information we have, the better we are able to find the right side to be on here. (And yes, I think that unfortunately there are sides here, and many of us close enough to the situation need to choose one.) >> >> All best, >> Antonia >> >>> On 29 September 2016 at 16:52, Audrey Truschke wrote: >>> Dear Colleagues, >>> >>> List members may be interested in an ongoing sexual harassment scandal at UC Berkeley involving an Indologist, Blake Wentworth. >>> >>> Wentworth, who works on classical Tamil literature, was found guilty of sexual harassment and misconduct last year by the university, and three of his victims came forward with details of the case (here and here) after being frustrated with delays in firing Wentworth. >>> >>> Now Wentworth is trying to silence the women he harassed with a defamation lawsuit (here). >>> >>> As many of you know, sexual harassment is an ongoing issue in many disciplines, and our corner of the academy, it seems, is no exception. >>> >>> Audrey Truschke >>> Assistant Professor >>> Department of History >>> Rutgers University-Newark >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> INDOLOGY mailing list >>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info >>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) >>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) >> >> >> >> -- >> Antonia Ruppel >> Richmond (UK) >> >> Out soon: The Cambridge Introduction to Sanskrit >> http://www.cambridge.org/ir/academic/subjects/religion/buddhism-and-eastern-religions/cambridge-introduction-sanskrit >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> INDOLOGY mailing list >> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info >> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) >> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From kauzeya at gmail.com Thu Oct 6 07:31:14 2016 From: kauzeya at gmail.com (Jonathan Silk) Date: Thu, 06 Oct 16 09:31:14 +0200 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Indologist at Center of Sexual Harassment Mess at Berkeley In-Reply-To: <2098B000-7BD1-4CCC-9CF7-A644CCF09A24@lankamail.com> Message-ID: Perhaps a modest suggestion: is there a rationale for this discussion that helps us, as scholars of Indian studies, understand our field and its position better? With respect to issues of censorship the answer is unequivocal: yes, this is a highly relevant issue to the field as a whole. With regard to the behavior of individual academics, setting aside the rights and wrongs of allegations (and by this expression I do not intend to comment, even obliquely, on either colleague who is or was at Berkeley), does consideration of the case(s) help us understand the situation of the field? I think that the answer here is that it does not. Yes, as academics many of whom teach, who intereact with others, over many of whom we may be in positions of authority, it is essential that we be aware of issues of abuse of power, but this is as general an issue as almost any other: there is nothing specific to Indian studies, and therefore, it is reasonable to conclude that we not discuss this on this particular list. I think the wording of this particular discussion may have rubbed some people the wrong way, if it was understood to imply that issues like sexual harrassment and abuses of power are not important. I, speaking only for myself, think that they are very important, but also not relevant for this list. They _type_ of discussion, that is, its subject-matter, seems to me quite different from that of censorship, which I think is perfectly legitimately discussed here. The modest suggestion, then, in the end: I tell my students that they are free at any point to interrupt me and ask why I am discussing a certain topic: I consider myself to have gone off track if I cannot clearly explain to them the coherence of my discussion at any moment with the topic of the course as a whole. Perhaps we could try to apply that reasoning here, and think to ourselves whether the topic in question applies relevantly _to the field of Indian studies_? just an idea... Jonathan On Thu, Oct 6, 2016 at 9:05 AM, James Stewart wrote: > Dear Walter, > > While I appreciate your point I should draw your attention to the fact > that there have been vigorous discussions about censorship in India, a > matter that pertains to contemporary Indology but is not explicit concerned > with the "history and culture of ancient and classical India." I don't > recall members being quick to shut down that discussion. > > Regards > > James > > Sent from my iPhone > > On 6 Oct 2016, at 5:19 PM, Walter Slaje wrote: > > Might I draw the gentle readership?s attention to the purpose of this list > as published on their guidelines page (http://listinfo.indology.info/): > > > > INDOLOGY forum for Classical South Asian studies: > > INDOLOGY is an internet discussion group whose primary purpose is to > provide a *forum* for discussion *among professional scholars of > classical Indian* (South Asian) *civilization*. *The central focus of the > list is the history and culture of ancient and classical India* [...] > > > > It is clear from this statement ? but also from the general practice > followed so far by its members ? that the list is to focus on research > pertaining to ?ancient and classical India? ? but not to pursuing the > immoral conduct of selected American South Asianists. To this day it has > served the purely scholarly purpose very well indeed. > > > > I am concerned that the shift now introduced towards naming and shaming is > not only a violation of the guidelines above, but will undermine the > reputation of the list and make scholars, who feel disgusted by public > pillorying, turn away from it. After all, it is for the courts to assess, > for the media to publicize, and for the tabloids to expose. > > I can see no scholarship in any of it which would befit this list. > > > > It is certainly legitimate to take an interest in the morals of South > Asian scholars. Whoever does so and considers the issue important enough > might perhaps want to establish something like The American South Asianists > Immorality Discussion Forum. I really don?t think we should subscribe to > such news feed here on this list. > > > > Regards, > > WS > ?? > > 2016-10-05 20:56 GMT+02:00 Antonia Ruppel : > >> Dear Audrey, >> >> Many thanks for the links and the excellent overview. You're absolutely >> right that we need to be aware of what is going on. Whenever something like >> this comes to light about someone who is a colleague or perhaps even a >> friend, it is shocking and uncomfortable. Still, the more information we >> have, the better we are able to find the right side to be on here. (And >> yes, I think that unfortunately there are sides here, and many of us close >> enough to the situation need to choose one.) >> >> All best, >> Antonia >> >> On 29 September 2016 at 16:52, Audrey Truschke > > wrote: >> >>> Dear Colleagues, >>> >>> List members may be interested in an ongoing sexual harassment scandal >>> at UC Berkeley involving an Indologist, Blake Wentworth. >>> >>> Wentworth, who works on classical Tamil literature, was found guilty of >>> sexual harassment and misconduct last year by the university, and three of >>> his victims came forward with details of the case (here >>> >>> and here >>> ) >>> after being frustrated with delays in firing Wentworth. >>> >>> Now Wentworth is trying to silence the women he harassed with a >>> defamation lawsuit (here >>> >>> ). >>> >>> As many of you know, sexual harassment is an ongoing issue in many >>> disciplines, and our corner of the academy, it seems, is no exception. >>> >>> Audrey Truschke >>> Assistant Professor >>> Department of History >>> Rutgers University-Newark >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> INDOLOGY mailing list >>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info >>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing >>> committee) >>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options >>> or unsubscribe) >>> >> >> >> >> -- >> Antonia Ruppel >> Richmond (UK) >> >> Out soon: The Cambridge Introduction to Sanskrit >> http://www.cambridge.org/ir/academic/subjects/religion/buddh >> ism-and-eastern-religions/cambridge-introduction-sanskrit >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> INDOLOGY mailing list >> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info >> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing >> committee) >> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or >> unsubscribe) >> > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing > committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or > unsubscribe) > > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing > committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or > unsubscribe) > -- J. Silk Leiden University Leiden University Institute for Area Studies, LIAS Matthias de Vrieshof 3, Room 0.05b 2311 BZ Leiden The Netherlands copies of my publications may be found at http://www.buddhismandsocialjustice.com/silk_publications.html -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From chlodwig.h.werba at univie.ac.at Thu Oct 6 07:44:42 2016 From: chlodwig.h.werba at univie.ac.at (Chlodwig H. Werba) Date: Thu, 06 Oct 16 09:44:42 +0200 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Indologist at Center of Sexual Harassment Mess at Berkeley In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000601d21fa5$80464740$80d2d5c0$@univie.ac.at> e.sa eva satyaagraha.h. atha satyam eva jayate athavaa vijetaa. iti saadhayati ;srutavega.h vivardhate vibh?ge ?pi, vidyaiv?nyan na ki? cana / ity av?cy anyad? su??hu, pr?cyar???rakavi?riy? // satyam eva vijayate ? haq?qat sab ke sab j?t let? hai :: verum omnia vincit ha?iyam ?rt?c? din?tiy ? haqiqat barande mi?avad :: ?? ?????? ?????? ???? Dr. Chlodwig H. Werba, Prof. of Indo-Iranian Studies Institute of South Asian, Tibetan and Buddhist Studies, South Asian Studies http://stb.univie.ac.at University Campus, Courtyard 2/2.1 Spitalgasse 2, 1090 Vienna, AUSTRIA Tel.: +43-1-4277-435-19 Von: INDOLOGY [mailto:indology-bounces at list.indology.info] Im Auftrag von Walter Slaje Gesendet: Donnerstag, 06. Oktober 2016 08:19 An: Antonia Ruppel Cc: Indology List Betreff: Re: [INDOLOGY] Indologist at Center of Sexual Harassment Mess at Berkeley Might I draw the gentle readership?s attention to the purpose of this list as published on their guidelines page (http://listinfo.indology.info/): INDOLOGY forum for Classical South Asian studies: INDOLOGY is an internet discussion group whose primary purpose is to provide a forum for discussion among professional scholars of classical Indian (South Asian) civilization. The central focus of the list is the history and culture of ancient and classical India [...] It is clear from this statement ? but also from the general practice followed so far by its members ? that the list is to focus on research pertaining to ?ancient and classical India? ? but not to pursuing the immoral conduct of selected American South Asianists. To this day it has served the purely scholarly purpose very well indeed. I am concerned that the shift now introduced towards naming and shaming is not only a violation of the guidelines above, but will undermine the reputation of the list and make scholars, who feel disgusted by public pillorying, turn away from it. After all, it is for the courts to assess, for the media to publicize, and for the tabloids to expose. I can see no scholarship in any of it which would befit this list. It is certainly legitimate to take an interest in the morals of South Asian scholars. Whoever does so and considers the issue important enough might perhaps want to establish something like The American South Asianists Immorality Discussion Forum. I really don?t think we should subscribe to such news feed here on this list. Regards, WS ?? 2016-10-05 20:56 GMT+02:00 Antonia Ruppel : Dear Audrey, Many thanks for the links and the excellent overview. You're absolutely right that we need to be aware of what is going on. Whenever something like this comes to light about someone who is a colleague or perhaps even a friend, it is shocking and uncomfortable. Still, the more information we have, the better we are able to find the right side to be on here. (And yes, I think that unfortunately there are sides here, and many of us close enough to the situation need to choose one.) All best, Antonia On 29 September 2016 at 16:52, Audrey Truschke wrote: Dear Colleagues, List members may be interested in an ongoing sexual harassment scandal at UC Berkeley involving an Indologist, Blake Wentworth. Wentworth, who works on classical Tamil literature, was found guilty of sexual harassment and misconduct last year by the university, and three of his victims came forward with details of the case (here and here ) after being frustrated with delays in firing Wentworth. Now Wentworth is trying to silence the women he harassed with a defamation lawsuit (here ). As many of you know, sexual harassment is an ongoing issue in many disciplines, and our corner of the academy, it seems, is no exception. Audrey Truschke Assistant Professor Department of History Rutgers University-Newark _______________________________________________ INDOLOGY mailing list INDOLOGY at list.indology.info indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) -- Antonia Ruppel Richmond (UK) Out soon: The Cambridge Introduction to Sanskrit http://www.cambridge.org/ir/academic/subjects/religion/buddhism-and-eastern-religions/cambridge-introduction-sanskrit _______________________________________________ INDOLOGY mailing list INDOLOGY at list.indology.info indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ashok.aklujkar at gmail.com Thu Oct 6 08:02:41 2016 From: ashok.aklujkar at gmail.com (Ashok Aklujkar) Date: Thu, 06 Oct 16 01:02:41 -0700 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Indologist at Center of Sexual Harassment Mess at Berkeley In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <2C00D327-D123-4A97-B6FD-5FC24137C864@gmail.com> I share the view expressed by Prof. Walter Slaje. ashok aklujkar From paolo.magnone at unicatt.it Thu Oct 6 08:07:00 2016 From: paolo.magnone at unicatt.it (Paolo Magnone) Date: Thu, 06 Oct 16 10:07:00 +0200 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Indologist at Center of Sexual Harassment Mess at Berkeley In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Dear Walter, Of course, you are unquestionably right. But you will never win. There are so many people, in this list as in the world at large, eager to flock together under the banners of political correctness, gender solidarity and what not. On the other hand, most people who share you views will not speak up, lest they should imperil their popularity. So, the more vocal majority shall have their way, no matter how utterly meaningless it may be to discuss the merely *factual/* /behaviour of Caitra, Maitra or Vi??uya?as (as contrasted with discussing general *principle* questions touching on Indology, like censorship in India etc.) in an indological list. Paolo Magnone -- Paolo Magnone Sanskrit Language and Literature Catholic University of the Sacred Heart - Milan History of Religions - Hinduism & Buddhism Theological Faculty of Northern Italy - Milan Jambudvipa - Indology and Sanskrit Studies (www.jambudvipa.net) Academia.edu: http://unicatt.academia.edu/PaoloMagnone On 06/10/2016 08:19, Walter Slaje wrote: > > Might I draw the gentle readership?s attention to the purpose of this > list as published on their guidelines page > (http://listinfo.indology.info/): > > INDOLOGY forum for Classical South Asian studies: > > INDOLOGY is an internet discussion group whose primary purpose is to > provide a _forum_ for discussion _among professional scholars of > classical Indian_ (South Asian) _civilization_. _The central focus of > the list is the history and culture of ancient and classical India_ [...] > > It is clear from this statement ? but also from the general practice > followed so far by its members ? that the list is to focus on research > pertaining to ?ancient and classical India? ? but not to pursuing the > immoral conduct of selected American South Asianists. To this day it > has served the purely scholarly purpose very well indeed. > > I am concerned that the shift now introduced towards naming and > shaming is not only a violation of the guidelines above, but will > undermine the reputation of the list and make scholars, who feel > disgusted by public pillorying, turn away from it. After all, it is > for the courts to assess, for the media to publicize, and for the > tabloids to expose. > > I can see no scholarship in any of it which would befit this list. > > It is certainly legitimate to take an interest in the morals of South > Asian scholars. Whoever does so and considers the issue important > enough might perhaps want to establish something like The American > South Asianists Immorality Discussion Forum. I really don?t think we > should subscribe to such news feed here on this list. > > Regards, > > WS > > ?? > > 2016-10-05 20:56 GMT+02:00 Antonia Ruppel >: > > Dear Audrey, > > Many thanks for the links and the excellent overview. You're > absolutely right that we need to be aware of what is going on. > Whenever something like this comes to light about someone who is a > colleague or perhaps even a friend, it is shocking and > uncomfortable. Still, the more information we have, the better we > are able to find the right side to be on here. (And yes, I think > that unfortunately there are sides here, and many of us close > enough to the situation need to choose one.) > > All best, > Antonia > > On 29 September 2016 at 16:52, Audrey Truschke > > wrote: > > Dear Colleagues, > > List members may be interested in an ongoing sexual harassment > scandal at UC Berkeley involving an Indologist, Blake Wentworth. > > Wentworth, who works on classical Tamil literature, was found > guilty of sexual harassment and misconduct last year by the > university, and three of his victims came forward with details > of the case (here > > and here > ) > after being frustrated with delays in firing Wentworth. > > Now Wentworth is trying to silence the women he harassed with > a defamation lawsuit (here > ). > > As many of you know, sexual harassment is an ongoing issue in > many disciplines, and our corner of the academy, it seems, is > no exception. > > Audrey Truschke > Assistant Professor > Department of History > Rutgers University-Newark > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info > (messages to the > list's managing committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list > options or unsubscribe) > > > > > -- > Antonia Ruppel > Richmond (UK) > > Out soon: The Cambridge Introduction to Sanskrit > http://www.cambridge.org/ir/academic/subjects/religion/buddhism-and-eastern-religions/cambridge-introduction-sanskrit > > > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info > (messages to the list's > managing committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list > options or unsubscribe) > > > > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mkapstei at uchicago.edu Thu Oct 6 08:25:25 2016 From: mkapstei at uchicago.edu (Matthew Kapstein) Date: Thu, 06 Oct 16 08:25:25 +0000 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Indologist at Center of Sexual Harassment Mess at Berkeley In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <82C3E42590D939418C74DD76B97DDED047BCA8AD@xm-mbx-06-prod> Dear colleagues, If I may: I believe that it is appropriate to report matters of concern involving members of our field -- such as Profs. Wentworth and Dirks -- that may have some impact on the status of the field. However, I do not think that we are in a position to discuss the merits or demerits of the matters in question, which may not in themselves be immediately within the concerns our list and about which we in any case have no special knowledge or authority. And haggling about who is or is not right or wrong about political or impolitic correctness or error is merely a waste of everybody's time. So let's leave it at that, unless there is something of Indological substance to add. Matthew Matthew Kapstein Directeur d'?tudes, Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes Numata Visiting Professor of Buddhist Studies, The University of Chicago ________________________________ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From paoloe.rosati at gmail.com Thu Oct 6 09:09:38 2016 From: paoloe.rosati at gmail.com (Paolo Eugenio Rosati) Date: Thu, 06 Oct 16 11:09:38 +0200 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Indologist at Center of Sexual Harassment Mess at Berkeley In-Reply-To: Message-ID: And then, there are people reluctant to say their opinion, because it is very well-know what's the general flock's opinion about sexist behaviours as much as it's well-known that this kind of misbehaviours are rooted in every stratum of society. Sincerely, Paolo On 6 October 2016 at 10:07, Paolo Magnone wrote: > Dear Walter, > > Of course, you are unquestionably right. But you will never win. There are > so many people, in this list as in the world at large, eager to flock > together under the banners of political correctness, gender solidarity and > what not. On the other hand, most people who share you views will not speak > up, lest they should imperil their popularity. So, the more vocal majority > shall have their way, no matter how utterly meaningless it may be to > discuss the merely *factual** *behaviour of Caitra, Maitra or Vi??uya?as > (as contrasted with discussing general *principle* questions touching on > Indology, like censorship in India etc.) in an indological list. > > Paolo Magnone > > -- > Paolo Magnone > Sanskrit Language and Literature > Catholic University of the Sacred Heart - Milan > History of Religions - Hinduism & Buddhism > Theological Faculty of Northern Italy - Milan > > Jambudvipa - Indology and Sanskrit Studies (www.jambudvipa.net) > Academia.edu: http://unicatt.academia.edu/PaoloMagnone > > > > On 06/10/2016 08:19, Walter Slaje wrote: > > Might I draw the gentle readership?s attention to the purpose of this list > as published on their guidelines page (http://listinfo.indology.info/): > > > > INDOLOGY forum for Classical South Asian studies: > > INDOLOGY is an internet discussion group whose primary purpose is to > provide a *forum* for discussion *among professional scholars of > classical Indian* (South Asian) *civilization*. *The central focus of the > list is the history and culture of ancient and classical India* [...] > > > > It is clear from this statement ? but also from the general practice > followed so far by its members ? that the list is to focus on research > pertaining to ?ancient and classical India? ? but not to pursuing the > immoral conduct of selected American South Asianists. To this day it has > served the purely scholarly purpose very well indeed. > > > > I am concerned that the shift now introduced towards naming and shaming is > not only a violation of the guidelines above, but will undermine the > reputation of the list and make scholars, who feel disgusted by public > pillorying, turn away from it. After all, it is for the courts to assess, > for the media to publicize, and for the tabloids to expose. > > I can see no scholarship in any of it which would befit this list. > > > > It is certainly legitimate to take an interest in the morals of South > Asian scholars. Whoever does so and considers the issue important enough > might perhaps want to establish something like The American South Asianists > Immorality Discussion Forum. I really don?t think we should subscribe to > such news feed here on this list. > > > > Regards, > > WS > ?? > > 2016-10-05 20:56 GMT+02:00 Antonia Ruppel : > > Dear Audrey, > > Many thanks for the links and the excellent overview. You're absolutely > right that we need to be aware of what is going on. Whenever something like > this comes to light about someone who is a colleague or perhaps even a > friend, it is shocking and uncomfortable. Still, the more information we > have, the better we are able to find the right side to be on here. (And > yes, I think that unfortunately there are sides here, and many of us close > enough to the situation need to choose one.) > > All best, > Antonia > > On 29 September 2016 at 16:52, Audrey Truschke > wrote: > > Dear Colleagues, > > List members may be interested in an ongoing sexual harassment scandal at > UC Berkeley involving an Indologist, Blake Wentworth. > > Wentworth, who works on classical Tamil literature, was found guilty of > sexual harassment and misconduct last year by the university, and three of > his victims came forward with details of the case (here > > and here > ) > after being frustrated with delays in firing Wentworth. > > Now Wentworth is trying to silence the women he harassed with a defamation > lawsuit (here > > ). > > As many of you know, sexual harassment is an ongoing issue in many > disciplines, and our corner of the academy, it seems, is no exception. > > Audrey Truschke > Assistant Professor > Department of History > Rutgers University-Newark > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing > committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or > unsubscribe) > > > > > -- > Antonia Ruppel > Richmond (UK) > > Out soon: The Cambridge Introduction to Sanskrit > http://www.cambridge.org/ir/academic/subjects/religion/buddh > ism-and-eastern-religions/cambridge-introduction-sanskrit > > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing > committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or > unsubscribe) > > > > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing listINDOLOGY at list.indology.infoindology-owner@list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee)http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) > > > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing > committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or > unsubscribe) > -- Paolo E. Rosati Oriental Archaeologist PhD candidate in "Civilizations of Asia and Africa" South Asia Section Dep. Italian Institute of Oriental Studies/ISO 'Sapienza' University of Rome *https://uniroma1.academia.edu/PaoloRosati/ * paoloe.rosati at uniroma1.it paoloe.rosati at gmail.com Skype: paoloe.rosati Mobile: (+39) 338 73 83 472 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From hr at ivs.edu Thu Oct 6 09:53:34 2016 From: hr at ivs.edu (HdGoswami) Date: Thu, 06 Oct 16 05:53:34 -0400 Subject: [INDOLOGY] To post or not to post Message-ID: <1475747461-6306475.57625432.fu969p0QH004698@rs153.luxsci.com> Many of the best law and medical schools offer, or require, courses and seminars on the ethics and dangers of the trade, including false and valid accusations of sexual harassment. Such courses and seminars are not generally considered to be an alarming deviation from the proper subject matter of the field. As I recall, Audrey did not act as judge and jury, nor did she regale us with a sermon on political correctness. She merely posted a news item that is relevant to those who teach, or aspire to teach, Indology. Thus the strenuous objections to her post, which dwarf in volume her own, seem to be a bit preemptive. From audrey.truschke at gmail.com Thu Oct 6 10:38:46 2016 From: audrey.truschke at gmail.com (audrey.truschke at gmail.com) Date: Thu, 06 Oct 16 06:38:46 -0400 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Indologist at Center of Sexual Harassment Mess at Berkeley In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Sexual harassment deeply affects scholarship, and it is a problem in Indology. All three women harassed by Wentworth have publicly expressed that these events have negatively impacted their studies. One has discontinued her studies. So, these events are shaping the scholarship that we all read and share on this list by driving away future colleagues. Sexual harassment is a significant problem in our discipline, my friends. It's not just a general problem in the academy and the world -- it is our problem. I would encourage the men, and they are all men, who cannot handle this thread to halt the avoidance tactics and instead focus on what they can do to tackle this substantial problem. Audrey Truschke Assistant Professor Department of History Rutgers University-Newark http://www.ncas.rutgers.edu/audrey-truschke Mellon Postdoctoral Fellow Department of Religious Studies Stanford University www.stanford.edu/~truschke > On Oct 6, 2016, at 5:09 AM, Paolo Eugenio Rosati wrote: > > And then, there are people reluctant to say their opinion, because it is very well-know what's the general flock's opinion about sexist behaviours as much as it's well-known that this kind of misbehaviours are rooted in every stratum of society. > > Sincerely, > Paolo > > >> On 6 October 2016 at 10:07, Paolo Magnone wrote: >> Dear Walter, >> >> Of course, you are unquestionably right. But you will never win. There are so many people, in this list as in the world at large, eager to flock together under the banners of political correctness, gender solidarity and what not. On the other hand, most people who share you views will not speak up, lest they should imperil their popularity. So, the more vocal majority shall have their way, no matter how utterly meaningless it may be to discuss the merely *factual* behaviour of Caitra, Maitra or Vi??uya?as (as contrasted with discussing general *principle* questions touching on Indology, like censorship in India etc.) in an indological list. >> >> Paolo Magnone >> >> -- >> Paolo Magnone >> Sanskrit Language and Literature >> Catholic University of the Sacred Heart - Milan >> History of Religions - Hinduism & Buddhism >> Theological Faculty of Northern Italy - Milan >> >> Jambudvipa - Indology and Sanskrit Studies (www.jambudvipa.net) >> Academia.edu: http://unicatt.academia.edu/PaoloMagnone >> >> >> >>> On 06/10/2016 08:19, Walter Slaje wrote: >>> Might I draw the gentle readership?s attention to the purpose of this list as published on their guidelines page (http://listinfo.indology.info/): >>> >>> >>> >>> INDOLOGY forum for Classical South Asian studies: >>> >>> INDOLOGY is an internet discussion group whose primary purpose is to provide a forum for discussion among professional scholars of classical Indian (South Asian) civilization. The central focus of the list is the history and culture of ancient and classical India [...] >>> >>> >>> >>> It is clear from this statement ? but also from the general practice followed so far by its members ? that the list is to focus on research pertaining to ?ancient and classical India? ? but not to pursuing the immoral conduct of selected American South Asianists. To this day it has served the purely scholarly purpose very well indeed. >>> >>> >>> >>> I am concerned that the shift now introduced towards naming and shaming is not only a violation of the guidelines above, but will undermine the reputation of the list and make scholars, who feel disgusted by public pillorying, turn away from it. After all, it is for the courts to assess, for the media to publicize, and for the tabloids to expose. >>> >>> I can see no scholarship in any of it which would befit this list. >>> >>> >>> >>> It is certainly legitimate to take an interest in the morals of South Asian scholars. Whoever does so and considers the issue important enough might perhaps want to establish something like The American South Asianists Immorality Discussion Forum. I really don?t think we should subscribe to such news feed here on this list. >>> >>> >>> >>> Regards, >>> >>> WS >>> >>> ?? >>> >>> 2016-10-05 20:56 GMT+02:00 Antonia Ruppel : >>> Dear Audrey, >>> >>> Many thanks for the links and the excellent overview. You're absolutely right that we need to be aware of what is going on. Whenever something like this comes to light about someone who is a colleague or perhaps even a friend, it is shocking and uncomfortable. Still, the more information we have, the better we are able to find the right side to be on here. (And yes, I think that unfortunately there are sides here, and many of us close enough to the situation need to choose one.) >>> >>> All best, >>> Antonia >>> >>> On 29 September 2016 at 16:52, Audrey Truschke wrote: >>> Dear Colleagues, >>> >>> List members may be interested in an ongoing sexual harassment scandal at UC Berkeley involving an Indologist, Blake Wentworth. >>> >>> Wentworth, who works on classical Tamil literature, was found guilty of sexual harassment and misconduct last year by the university, and three of his victims came forward with details of the case (here and here) after being frustrated with delays in firing Wentworth. >>> >>> Now Wentworth is trying to silence the women he harassed with a defamation lawsuit (here). >>> >>> As many of you know, sexual harassment is an ongoing issue in many disciplines, and our corner of the academy, it seems, is no exception. >>> >>> Audrey Truschke >>> Assistant Professor >>> Department of History >>> Rutgers University-Newark >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> INDOLOGY mailing list >>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info >>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) >>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Antonia Ruppel >>> Richmond (UK) >>> >>> Out soon: The Cambridge Introduction to Sanskrit >>> http://www.cambridge.org/ir/academic/subjects/religion/buddhism-and-eastern-religions/cambridge-introduction-sanskrit >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> INDOLOGY mailing list >>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info >>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) >>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> INDOLOGY mailing list >>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info >>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) >>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> INDOLOGY mailing list >> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info >> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) >> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) > > > > -- > Paolo E. Rosati > Oriental Archaeologist > PhD candidate in "Civilizations of Asia and Africa" > South Asia Section > Dep. Italian Institute of Oriental Studies/ISO > 'Sapienza' University of Rome > https://uniroma1.academia.edu/PaoloRosati/ > paoloe.rosati at uniroma1.it > paoloe.rosati at gmail.com > Skype: paoloe.rosati > Mobile: (+39) 338 73 83 472 > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Joseph.Walser at tufts.edu Thu Oct 6 13:07:53 2016 From: Joseph.Walser at tufts.edu (Walser, Joseph) Date: Thu, 06 Oct 16 13:07:53 +0000 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Indologist at Center of Sexual Harassment Mess at Berkeley In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I find Audrey's post to be perfectly appropriate and certainly within the bounds of the decorum of the list. She brought the issue to our attention without sensationalizing or going beyond the facts. If this issue comes up in the future, I think her post can serve as a model of how to alert the community to this issue. I really think we can move on now. -j Joseph Walser Associate Professor Department of Religion Tufts University ________________________________ From: INDOLOGY [indology-bounces at list.indology.info] on behalf of audrey.truschke at gmail.com [audrey.truschke at gmail.com] Sent: Thursday, October 06, 2016 6:38 AM To: Paolo Eugenio Rosati Cc: Indology Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] Indologist at Center of Sexual Harassment Mess at Berkeley Sexual harassment deeply affects scholarship, and it is a problem in Indology. All three women harassed by Wentworth have publicly expressed that these events have negatively impacted their studies. One has discontinued her studies. So, these events are shaping the scholarship that we all read and share on this list by driving away future colleagues. Sexual harassment is a significant problem in our discipline, my friends. It's not just a general problem in the academy and the world -- it is our problem. I would encourage the men, and they are all men, who cannot handle this thread to halt the avoidance tactics and instead focus on what they can do to tackle this substantial problem. Audrey Truschke Assistant Professor Department of History Rutgers University-Newark http://www.ncas.rutgers.edu/audrey-truschke Mellon Postdoctoral Fellow Department of Religious Studies Stanford University www.stanford.edu/~truschke On Oct 6, 2016, at 5:09 AM, Paolo Eugenio Rosati > wrote: And then, there are people reluctant to say their opinion, because it is very well-know what's the general flock's opinion about sexist behaviours as much as it's well-known that this kind of misbehaviours are rooted in every stratum of society. Sincerely, Paolo On 6 October 2016 at 10:07, Paolo Magnone > wrote: Dear Walter, Of course, you are unquestionably right. But you will never win. There are so many people, in this list as in the world at large, eager to flock together under the banners of political correctness, gender solidarity and what not. On the other hand, most people who share you views will not speak up, lest they should imperil their popularity. So, the more vocal majority shall have their way, no matter how utterly meaningless it may be to discuss the merely *factual* behaviour of Caitra, Maitra or Vi??uya?as (as contrasted with discussing general *principle* questions touching on Indology, like censorship in India etc.) in an indological list. Paolo Magnone -- Paolo Magnone Sanskrit Language and Literature Catholic University of the Sacred Heart - Milan History of Religions - Hinduism & Buddhism Theological Faculty of Northern Italy - Milan Jambudvipa - Indology and Sanskrit Studies (www.jambudvipa.net) Academia.edu: http://unicatt.academia.edu/PaoloMagnone On 06/10/2016 08:19, Walter Slaje wrote: Might I draw the gentle readership?s attention to the purpose of this list as published on their guidelines page (http://listinfo.indology.info/): INDOLOGY forum for Classical South Asian studies: INDOLOGY is an internet discussion group whose primary purpose is to provide a forum for discussion among professional scholars of classical Indian (South Asian) civilization. The central focus of the list is the history and culture of ancient and classical India [...] It is clear from this statement ? but also from the general practice followed so far by its members ? that the list is to focus on research pertaining to ?ancient and classical India? ? but not to pursuing the immoral conduct of selected American South Asianists. To this day it has served the purely scholarly purpose very well indeed. I am concerned that the shift now introduced towards naming and shaming is not only a violation of the guidelines above, but will undermine the reputation of the list and make scholars, who feel disgusted by public pillorying, turn away from it. After all, it is for the courts to assess, for the media to publicize, and for the tabloids to expose. I can see no scholarship in any of it which would befit this list. It is certainly legitimate to take an interest in the morals of South Asian scholars. Whoever does so and considers the issue important enough might perhaps want to establish something like The American South Asianists Immorality Discussion Forum. I really don?t think we should subscribe to such news feed here on this list. Regards, WS ?? 2016-10-05 20:56 GMT+02:00 Antonia Ruppel >: Dear Audrey, Many thanks for the links and the excellent overview. You're absolutely right that we need to be aware of what is going on. Whenever something like this comes to light about someone who is a colleague or perhaps even a friend, it is shocking and uncomfortable. Still, the more information we have, the better we are able to find the right side to be on here. (And yes, I think that unfortunately there are sides here, and many of us close enough to the situation need to choose one.) All best, Antonia On 29 September 2016 at 16:52, Audrey Truschke > wrote: Dear Colleagues, List members may be interested in an ongoing sexual harassment scandal at UC Berkeley involving an Indologist, Blake Wentworth. Wentworth, who works on classical Tamil literature, was found guilty of sexual harassment and misconduct last year by the university, and three of his victims came forward with details of the case (here and here) after being frustrated with delays in firing Wentworth. Now Wentworth is trying to silence the women he harassed with a defamation lawsuit (here). As many of you know, sexual harassment is an ongoing issue in many disciplines, and our corner of the academy, it seems, is no exception. Audrey Truschke Assistant Professor Department of History Rutgers University-Newark _______________________________________________ INDOLOGY mailing list INDOLOGY at list.indology.info indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) -- Antonia Ruppel Richmond (UK) Out soon: The Cambridge Introduction to Sanskrit http://www.cambridge.org/ir/academic/subjects/religion/buddhism-and-eastern-religions/cambridge-introduction-sanskrit _______________________________________________ INDOLOGY mailing list INDOLOGY at list.indology.info indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) _______________________________________________ INDOLOGY mailing list INDOLOGY at list.indology.info indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) _______________________________________________ INDOLOGY mailing list INDOLOGY at list.indology.info indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) -- Paolo E. Rosati Oriental Archaeologist PhD candidate in "Civilizations of Asia and Africa" South Asia Section Dep. Italian Institute of Oriental Studies/ISO 'Sapienza' University of Rome https://uniroma1.academia.edu/PaoloRosati/ paoloe.rosati at uniroma1.it paoloe.rosati at gmail.com Skype: paoloe.rosati Mobile: (+39) 338 73 83 472 _______________________________________________ INDOLOGY mailing list INDOLOGY at list.indology.info indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From slaje at kabelmail.de Thu Oct 6 13:33:49 2016 From: slaje at kabelmail.de (Walter Slaje) Date: Thu, 06 Oct 16 15:33:49 +0200 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Indologist at Center of Sexual Harassment Mess at Berkeley In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I have already made the suggestion that those who aspire to dedicate their time to what they consider a substantial problem of their discipline establish a discussion forum and deal with the matter exhaustively there. Interested Indologists should be encouraged to subscribe. The idea voiced that only male persons would have taken a specific stand in this discussion shows little respect for, or even ignores, the gender theory. This argument should vice versa also be applied on the ladies involved. How can we really know what identities hide behind biological features? So what can be deduced from the argument "they are all men"? As INDOLOGY is supposed to serve scholars, they may expect that quantifying statements made on this list be supported by evidence. There is no scholarship without evidence. The three harrassed women do have my deepest sympathies, but the (accused or convicted?) perpetrator was one man. One South Asianist. At Berkeley. In the USA. With all due respect Berkeley does indeed deserve, the local American academia must not be mistaken for the hub of the world representing Indologists in any global sense, tempting as it may seem for some. Construing a significant problem for Indology on also other continents in the world by presenting the evidence of one lone South Asianist, at Berkeley, in the USA, takes a narrow view, is clearly at odds with statistical data, and appears to be a bold step indeed. The globalizing and unfounded insinuations resulting from it, putting the whole world of Indology under general sexual harrassment suspicion, might be taken as another reason why this discussion should in my opinion rather be discontinued in a scholarly forum such as INDOLOGY. One last remark. While the reporting media we have been informed about speak of ?professors in South Asian studies?, disputants on this list have tacitly transformed them into ?Indologists? for claiming a fundamental moral crisis in ?our discipline?, i.e. Indology. There is however a difference between South Asianists and Indologists, ironically brought to the point by Sheldon Pollock: ?[...] The word, the phrase ?South Asia? was invented in Washington D.C. at the State Department. [...] I am a professor of South Asia Studies. I am a professor of a region that does not exist ...?. (?*Why a Library of Classical Indian Literature?**? *Jaipur Literature Festival 2015*. *On *YouTube*, min. 42.43 ff). It is not only because Indology in contrast continues to have a subject of research that I feel uncomfortable with implicit identifications with South Asianists of dubious ethical behaviour. I prefer the notion of an Indologist for many reasons, one among them that I dislike ? and be it in name of a South Asianist only ? becoming harnessed to the geopolitical carriage of interests which Washington D.C. has been pursuing in an Asia they have filleted themselves. With this, my part in this discussion ends. Cheers, WS 2016-10-06 12:38 GMT+02:00 : > Sexual harassment deeply affects scholarship, and it is a problem in > Indology. > > All three women harassed by Wentworth have publicly expressed that these > events have negatively impacted their studies. One has discontinued her > studies. So, these events are shaping the scholarship that we all read and > share on this list by driving away future colleagues. > > Sexual harassment is a significant problem in our discipline, my friends. > It's not just a general problem in the academy and the world -- it is our > problem. I would encourage the men, and they are all men, who cannot handle > this thread to halt the avoidance tactics and instead focus on what they > can do to tackle this substantial problem. > > Audrey Truschke > Assistant Professor > Department of History > Rutgers University-Newark > http://www.ncas.rutgers.edu/audrey-truschke > > Mellon Postdoctoral Fellow > Department of Religious Studies > Stanford University > www.stanford.edu/~truschke > > On Oct 6, 2016, at 5:09 AM, Paolo Eugenio Rosati > wrote: > > And then, there are people reluctant to say their opinion, because it is > very well-know what's the general flock's opinion about sexist behaviours > as much as it's well-known that this kind of misbehaviours are rooted in > every stratum of society. > > Sincerely, > Paolo > > > On 6 October 2016 at 10:07, Paolo Magnone > wrote: > >> Dear Walter, >> >> Of course, you are unquestionably right. But you will never win. There >> are so many people, in this list as in the world at large, eager to flock >> together under the banners of political correctness, gender solidarity and >> what not. On the other hand, most people who share you views will not speak >> up, lest they should imperil their popularity. So, the more vocal majority >> shall have their way, no matter how utterly meaningless it may be to >> discuss the merely *factual** *behaviour of Caitra, Maitra or Vi??uya?as >> (as contrasted with discussing general *principle* questions touching on >> Indology, like censorship in India etc.) in an indological list. >> >> Paolo Magnone >> >> -- >> Paolo Magnone >> Sanskrit Language and Literature >> Catholic University of the Sacred Heart - Milan >> History of Religions - Hinduism & Buddhism >> Theological Faculty of Northern Italy - Milan >> >> Jambudvipa - Indology and Sanskrit Studies (www.jambudvipa.net) >> Academia.edu: http://unicatt.academia.edu/PaoloMagnone >> >> >> >> On 06/10/2016 08:19, Walter Slaje wrote: >> >> Might I draw the gentle readership?s attention to the purpose of this >> list as published on their guidelines page (http://listinfo.indology.info >> /): >> >> >> >> INDOLOGY forum for Classical South Asian studies: >> >> INDOLOGY is an internet discussion group whose primary purpose is to >> provide a *forum* for discussion *among professional scholars of >> classical Indian* (South Asian) *civilization*. *The central focus of >> the list is the history and culture of ancient and classical India* [...] >> >> >> >> It is clear from this statement ? but also from the general practice >> followed so far by its members ? that the list is to focus on research >> pertaining to ?ancient and classical India? ? but not to pursuing the >> immoral conduct of selected American South Asianists. To this day it has >> served the purely scholarly purpose very well indeed. >> >> >> >> I am concerned that the shift now introduced towards naming and shaming >> is not only a violation of the guidelines above, but will undermine the >> reputation of the list and make scholars, who feel disgusted by public >> pillorying, turn away from it. After all, it is for the courts to assess, >> for the media to publicize, and for the tabloids to expose. >> >> I can see no scholarship in any of it which would befit this list. >> >> >> >> It is certainly legitimate to take an interest in the morals of South >> Asian scholars. Whoever does so and considers the issue important enough >> might perhaps want to establish something like The American South Asianists >> Immorality Discussion Forum. I really don?t think we should subscribe to >> such news feed here on this list. >> >> >> >> Regards, >> >> WS >> ?? >> >> 2016-10-05 20:56 GMT+02:00 Antonia Ruppel : >> >> Dear Audrey, >> >> Many thanks for the links and the excellent overview. You're absolutely >> right that we need to be aware of what is going on. Whenever something like >> this comes to light about someone who is a colleague or perhaps even a >> friend, it is shocking and uncomfortable. Still, the more information we >> have, the better we are able to find the right side to be on here. (And >> yes, I think that unfortunately there are sides here, and many of us close >> enough to the situation need to choose one.) >> >> All best, >> Antonia >> >> On 29 September 2016 at 16:52, Audrey Truschke > > wrote: >> >> Dear Colleagues, >> >> List members may be interested in an ongoing sexual harassment scandal at >> UC Berkeley involving an Indologist, Blake Wentworth. >> >> Wentworth, who works on classical Tamil literature, was found guilty of >> sexual harassment and misconduct last year by the university, and three of >> his victims came forward with details of the case (here >> >> and here >> ) >> after being frustrated with delays in firing Wentworth. >> >> Now Wentworth is trying to silence the women he harassed with a >> defamation lawsuit (here >> >> ). >> >> As many of you know, sexual harassment is an ongoing issue in many >> disciplines, and our corner of the academy, it seems, is no exception. >> >> Audrey Truschke >> Assistant Professor >> Department of History >> Rutgers University-Newark >> >> _______________________________________________ >> INDOLOGY mailing list >> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info >> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing >> committee) >> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or >> unsubscribe) >> >> >> >> >> -- >> Antonia Ruppel >> Richmond (UK) >> >> Out soon: The Cambridge Introduction to Sanskrit >> http://www.cambridge.org/ir/academic/subjects/religion/buddh >> ism-and-eastern-religions/cambridge-introduction-sanskrit >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> INDOLOGY mailing list >> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info >> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing >> committee) >> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or >> unsubscribe) >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> INDOLOGY mailing listINDOLOGY at list.indology.infoindology-owner@list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee)http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> INDOLOGY mailing list >> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info >> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing >> committee) >> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or >> unsubscribe) >> > > > > -- > Paolo E. Rosati > Oriental Archaeologist > PhD candidate in "Civilizations of Asia and Africa" > South Asia Section > Dep. Italian Institute of Oriental Studies/ISO > 'Sapienza' University of Rome > *https://uniroma1.academia.edu/PaoloRosati/ > * > paoloe.rosati at uniroma1.it > paoloe.rosati at gmail.com > Skype: paoloe.rosati > Mobile: (+39) 338 73 83 472 > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing > committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or > unsubscribe) > > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing > committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or > unsubscribe) > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From vjroebuck at btinternet.com Thu Oct 6 13:35:54 2016 From: vjroebuck at btinternet.com (Valerie Roebuck) Date: Thu, 06 Oct 16 14:35:54 +0100 Subject: [INDOLOGY] To post or not to post In-Reply-To: <1475747461-6306475.57625432.fu969p0QH004698@rs153.luxsci.com> Message-ID: Agreed. I was glad to have access to a modest bit of information about this case. People outside the US will not have seen it in the newspapers, and will want to be informed about possible problems if they are thinking of recommending the institution to their students. Valerie J Roebuck Manchester, UK > On 6 Oct 2016, at 10:53, HdGoswami
wrote: > > Many of the best law and medical schools offer, or require, courses and seminars on the ethics and dangers of the trade, including false and valid accusations of sexual harassment. Such courses and seminars are not generally considered to be an alarming deviation from the proper subject matter of the field. > > As I recall, Audrey did not act as judge and jury, nor did she regale us with a sermon on political correctness. She merely posted a news item that is relevant to those who teach, or aspire to teach, Indology. > > Thus the strenuous objections to her post, which dwarf in volume her own, seem to be a bit preemptive. > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) From christophe.vielle at uclouvain.be Thu Oct 6 14:52:29 2016 From: christophe.vielle at uclouvain.be (Christophe Vielle) Date: Thu, 06 Oct 16 16:52:29 +0200 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Date of Sankara (again) Message-ID: Dear list, a traditional example of the ka?apay?di system of expressing numbers through letters is : ?c?ryav?gabhedy? = 1434160 The example can be found e.g. in N. V. P. Unithiri "Astronomy and Mathematics in Medieval Kerala with special Reference to Nila Valley", in Id. ed. Indian Scientific Traditions (Prof. K. N. Neelakanthan Elayath Felicitation Volume), Calicut University Sanskrit Series no. 19, 2003 (rev. ed. 2006), p. 45 https://archive.org/details/IndianScientificTraditionsK.N.NikanthaElayathFelicitationVolumeUnithriN.V.P.Articles I did not pay attention to this example (to be understood: ?c?ryav?g abhedy?, which could be translated "the voice of the ?c?rya [has become] indivisible/which cannot be broken"), until I came across the following statement by Kolatteri Sankara Menon ("Director of Ayurveda, Travancore, and Curator for the Publication of Ayurveda, Jyotisha and Malayalam Manuscripts") in the introduction of his ed. of Bhadanta's Nagarjuna's Rasa Vaiseshika Sutra with the commentary of Narasimha (The Sr? Vanchi S?tu Lakshm? Series no. 8, Trivandrum: Governement Press, 1928), p. 19: "The Ahargana '?c?ryav?gabhedy?' which, according to the Katapayadi system of notation prevalent in Kerala, denotes the 1434160th day from the beginning of the Kali Era is considered to be an important date in the life history of Sankara who had attained at that time such a high degree of recognition and importance that his words were accepted as incontrovertible authority by all classes of people." Now I see that this chronogram indicating the Kali year 3926/27 is taken into account for establishing the date of Sankara by at least the two great historians of the literature of Kerala (in Malayalam), i.e. Ulloor S. Parameswara Aiyer, K?ralas?hityacaritra?, 5th ed. 1990 [1st ed. 1953], vol. 1, p. 112, and Vadakkumkur Rajarajavarma, K?ral?yasa?sk?tas?hityacaritram, rev. 2nd ed. 1997, vol. 1, pp. 184, 187. Also K. V. Sarma, A History of the Kerala School of Hindu Astronomy, Hoshiarpur, 1972, p. 7 fn. 2 : "[a] day [...] on which ?a?kar?c?rya introduced certain reforms" https://archive.org/details/KeralaSchoolOfAstronomy The year (= 825/26 AD *) corresponds with the one of the beginning of the kollam ("Malayalam") era, for which it has therefore served as a historico-legendary explanation (among several other ones). But reviewing those ones, the historian K. Padmanabha Menon (A History of Kerala, vol. 4 [1937], p. 268) admits that "the origin of the Chronogram [...] is itself shrouded in obscurity." At least, it was in existence independently of the scholarly better known traditional dates of AD 788-820 for Sankara's birth and death (about which see Harimoto ref. below ? 2.2.), to which it is close (**). The chronogram date is not discussed nor quoted in the good critical surveys of the Sankara dating problem by Govind Chandra Pande (Life an Thought of ?a?kar?c?rya, Delhi, 1994, cf. pp. 41-54), K. Harimoto (2006, available at https://www.academia.edu/4152114/The_Date_of_?a?kara_Between_the_C??ukyas_and_the_R???rak??as ), and, more surprisingly (since he was traditionally educated in Kerala), K. Kunjunni Raja (in Adyar Library Bulletin 24, 1960, pp. 125-148.: http://www.dli.ernet.in/handle/2015/99499 ). I would be interested by any supplementary reference related to this chronogram and its discussion. Best wishes, Christophe Vielle (*) The precise date is given in this on-line article at https://fr.scribd.com/document/14147548/Epoch-3101CE-and-Indian-Chronology as "Kalidinam 1434160, 25 August 825 CE, 1st day of Solar Kany?, Mah?navami, M?lam nak?atram." Note that the online tool at http://www.usvishakh.net/php/kaligreg.php converts this Kali day in "Gregorian date = 825 August 29 (Friday)" (**) Padmanabha Menon ibid. adds the following noteworthy archival information: "The date of his birth according to the Slokas in a manuscript volume in the possession of one Govinda Bhattar of Belgaum is Vibhava Varsha Kali year 3889 (A.D. 787) and that of his death, full moon in Vaik??i Kali year 3921 (A.D. 819)." ??????????????????? Christophe Vielle Louvain-la-Neuve -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From adheesh1 at gmail.com Thu Oct 6 15:58:38 2016 From: adheesh1 at gmail.com (Adheesh Sathaye) Date: Thu, 06 Oct 16 08:58:38 -0700 Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_[INDOLOGY]_clearer_Q_re:_vid=C5=AB=E1=B9=A3aka=3F_(on_behalf_of_Rich_Salomon)?= Message-ID: <4D6854C7-9D3B-4F65-BA58-122DA34AE373@gmail.com> The following message had been discarded, due to the use of an unsubscribed email address by the sender. I am therefore forwarding it for the benefit of the list. A reminder that one may control one?s account on Indology directly through http://listoptions.indology.info . With best wishes, Adheesh ? Dr. Adheesh Sathaye Dept. of Asian Studies University of British Columbia 408-1871 West Mall Vancouver BC CANADA V6T1Z2 adheesh at mail.ubc.ca +1.604.822.5188 http://www.ubcsanskrit.ca http://www.asianfolklore.ca From: Richard Salomon Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] clearer Q re: vid??aka? Date: October 5, 2016 at 16.37.08 PDT To: It doesn't have to be one or the other. I would propose that the word vid??aka embodies a pun, and "means" simultaneously both "wise[-guy]" and "spoiler." Something like the sense of "sophomore" = wise fool. Rich Salomon On 10/6/2016 12:38 AM, Stefan Baums wrote: > Dear Jo, > >> Is there any other way to derive vid??aka from >> vidv??s -- perhaps involving some speculative >> etymologizing? > J.C. Wright suggested just such a derivation via > Middle Indo?Aryan on p. 21 of his 1965 (published > 1966) SOAS inaugural lecture (?Non?Classical Sanskrit > Literature?): > > Other features, notably the highly stereotyped > figure of the pedant (Sanskritized vid??aka, i.e. > vid?s, Prakrit vid?), and the basic structure of > the dramatic genre, reflected to some extent in > the theory and practice of classical K?vya, will > have a more distant origin [i.e., more distant > than Buddhist literature]. > > (This is the passage referred to from Mayrhofers KEWA > s.v. vid??aka? with the unresolved abbreviation > ?Wright, NCSL 21?.) > > All best, > Stefan > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From caf57 at cam.ac.uk Thu Oct 6 16:37:37 2016 From: caf57 at cam.ac.uk (C.A. Formigatti) Date: Thu, 06 Oct 16 17:37:37 +0100 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Indologist at Center of Sexual Harassment Mess at Berkeley In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <24acc13ce9b28f97c6b900fa36b7cb67@cam.ac.uk> Dear Colleagues, As soon as I read the articles posted by Audrey, I thought that nobody would have ever dared to comment them, lest she or he would raise an heated discussion. Prof. Slaje had the courage to share his comments and I am very grateful to him for this. Although I am on the side of the three harassed women (since we have been incited to take sides), I also believe that Prof. Slaje's argument about statistical data is very sound (so, I take both sides, probably it's my Italian nature, but I don't want to turn this discussion into a racial one). My first thought was "why is this case particularly relevant for South Asian (or if you prefer, Indological) studies?" I don't think that our field was, is or will be exempt from cases of sexual harassment. Why should it be? Are South Asianists or Indologists drastically different from all other human beings? This case of harassment merely adds another very sad chapter in the history of sexual harassment in academia--and hence in the world. It does not have anything to do with South Asian studies or Indology, it has to do with human nature. Prof. Valerie Roebuck commented: "I was glad to have access to a modest bit of information about this case. People outside the US will not have seen it in the newspapers, and will want to be informed about possible problems if they are thinking of recommending the institution to their students." I disagree. I would still recommend UC Berkeley to female students. Why? Because the fact that three brave women had the courage to come forward and talk about the harassment they have been exposed to doesn't mean that UC Berkeley is more dangerous than any other university. For all we know, something similar is happening right now in many other universities all over the world. The difference is only that these episodes have been brought to light. I hope that in the future more women will have the courage to report cases of sexual harassment. Camillo Formigatti From psdmccartney at gmail.com Thu Oct 6 23:00:19 2016 From: psdmccartney at gmail.com (patrick mccartney) Date: Fri, 07 Oct 16 09:30:19 +1030 Subject: [INDOLOGY] capital punishment Message-ID: Dear Friends, I came across this word below while looking up the meaning of another word in the dictionary. I am curious to know in which text(s) it might be found. Is there a section on capital punishment in the artha??stras? ?????? tuSAnala m. capital punishment consisting in *twisting* dry straw round a criminal's limbs and setting it on fire All the best, Patrick McCartney, PhD Fellow School of Culture, History & Language College of the Asia-Pacific The Australian National University Canberra, Australia, 0200 Skype - psdmccartney Phone + Whatsapp: +61 414 954 748 Twitter - @psdmccartney academia - Linkedin Edanz #yogabodyANU2016 symposium Ep1 - Imagining Sanskrit Land Ep 2 - Total-am Ep 3 - Jalam ? Chillum Ep 4 - It's Time to get Married A Day in our Ashram Stop animation short film of Shakuntala Forced to Clean Human Waste One of my favourite song s -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From McComas.Taylor at anu.edu.au Thu Oct 6 23:17:40 2016 From: McComas.Taylor at anu.edu.au (McComas Taylor) Date: Thu, 06 Oct 16 23:17:40 +0000 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Vedic word cloud Message-ID: Dear Colleagues Out of curiosity I ran the first few suktas of the Griffith's translation of the ?gveda though an online word-cloud generator. I hope you might enjoy the result. Yours McComas ________________________________ McComas Taylor, SFHEA Associate Professor, Reader in Sanskrit College of Asia and the Pacific The Australian National University, Tel. + 61 2 6125 3179 Website: https://sites.google.com/site/mccomasanu/ Address: Baldessin Building 4.24, ANU, ACT 0200 [1471312813545_sdon_small.jpg] My beautiful new book: Seven Days of Nectar ________________________________ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: OutlookEmoji-1471312813545_sdon_small.jpg.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 2629 bytes Desc: not available URL: From McComas.Taylor at anu.edu.au Thu Oct 6 23:22:18 2016 From: McComas.Taylor at anu.edu.au (McComas Taylor) Date: Thu, 06 Oct 16 23:22:18 +0000 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Link to Vedic word cloud Message-ID: Here is the link to the Vedic word cloud https://alliance.anu.edu.au/access/content/user/u3936301/veda_word_cloud.pdf McC ________________________________ McComas Taylor, SFHEA Associate Professor, Reader in Sanskrit College of Asia and the Pacific The Australian National University, Tel. + 61 2 6125 3179 Website: https://sites.google.com/site/mccomasanu/ Address: Baldessin Building 4.24, ANU, ACT 0200 [1471312813545_sdon_small.jpg] My beautiful new book: Seven Days of Nectar ________________________________ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: OutlookEmoji-1471312813545_sdon_small.jpg.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 2629 bytes Desc: not available URL: From mark.allon at sydney.edu.au Thu Oct 6 23:23:56 2016 From: mark.allon at sydney.edu.au (Mark Allon) Date: Thu, 06 Oct 16 23:23:56 +0000 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Lecturer in Tibetan Buddhism Message-ID: <1A46C9B65B1156439124252D1E715E5101C497D5C8@ex-mbx-pro-04> Dear all, Applications are invited for appointment to a five-year contract position of Lecturer in Tibetan Buddhism within the School of Languages and Cultures in the University of Sydney, Australia. The position is being funded by the Khyentse Foundation, the University Buddhist Education Foundation, and the Aberbaldie Foundation. For further details, see Lecturer in Tibetan Buddhism Ref 1665-1016 Best wishes Mark Dr Mark Allon Chair, Dept. of Indian Subcontinental Studies The University of Sydney Australia mark.allon at sydney.edu.au -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From disimone at alumni.stanford.edu Thu Oct 6 23:32:33 2016 From: disimone at alumni.stanford.edu (Charles DiSimone) Date: Fri, 07 Oct 16 01:32:33 +0200 Subject: [INDOLOGY] capital punishment In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hey Patrick, At the risk of telling you something that you probably already know. MW cites this word from the *Dh?rtasam?gama*. I hope all is well and you're no longer flooded! All best, Charles On Fri, Oct 7, 2016 at 1:00 AM, patrick mccartney wrote: > Dear Friends, > > I came across this word below while looking up the meaning of another word > in the dictionary. I am curious to know in which text(s) it might be found. > Is there a section on capital punishment in the artha??stras? > > ?????? tuSAnala > > m. capital > > punishment > > consisting > > in > > *twisting* > > > dry > > straw > > round > > a > > criminal's > > limbs > > and > > setting > > it > > on > > fire > > > All the best, > > Patrick McCartney, PhD > Fellow > School of Culture, History & Language > College of the Asia-Pacific > The Australian National University > Canberra, Australia, 0200 > > > Skype - psdmccartney > Phone + Whatsapp: +61 414 954 748 > Twitter - @psdmccartney > > > academia > > - > > Linkedin > > > Edanz > > #yogabodyANU2016 symposium > > > Ep1 - Imagining Sanskrit Land > > Ep 2 - Total-am > > Ep 3 - Jalam ? Chillum > > Ep 4 - It's Time to get Married > > > A Day in our Ashram > > > Stop animation short film of Shakuntala > > > Forced to Clean Human Waste > > One of my favourite song > s > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing > committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or > unsubscribe) > -- Charles DiSimone Promotionsprogramm Buddhismus-Studien Institut f?r Indologie und Tibetologie Ludwig-Maximilians-Universit?t M?nchen -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ashok.aklujkar at gmail.com Fri Oct 7 07:53:37 2016 From: ashok.aklujkar at gmail.com (Ashok Aklujkar) Date: Fri, 07 Oct 16 00:53:37 -0700 Subject: [INDOLOGY] capital punishment In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Itu??nala, tu??gni, etc. (with other synonyms of agni appearing as the second member of the compound) occur in the story about Dharma-k?rti/a Buddhist teacher and Kum?rila. It does refer to a capital punishment but to a self-inflicted capital punishment ? a pr?ya?citta in which the repentant person chooses to die in a slow-burning fire to atone for what he considers to be a grave sin. A reference exists in one of the ?a?kara/???kara-vijayas/digvijayas. (I cannot give you a precise reference at present because I am away from my personal library.) The context is one in which the great Advaitin teacher ?a?kara wishes to debate with the great M?m??saka Kum?rila. However, when ?a?kara approaches Kum?rila, he finds him self-immolating in tu?a fire. guru-droha or a Vaidika?s studying with a Buddhist is usually given as the reason behind Kum?rila?s choosing to die in a very painful way. a.a. > On Oct 6, 2016, at 4:00 PM, patrick mccartney > wrote: > > I came across this word below while looking up the meaning of another word in the dictionary. I am curious to know in which text(s) it might be found. Is there a section on capital punishment in the artha??stras? > > ?????? tuSAnala m. capital punishment consisting in twisting > dry straw round a criminal's limbs and setting it on fire > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From arlogriffiths at hotmail.com Fri Oct 7 09:46:49 2016 From: arlogriffiths at hotmail.com (Arlo Griffiths) Date: Fri, 07 Oct 16 09:46:49 +0000 Subject: [INDOLOGY] To post or not to post In-Reply-To: <1475747461-6306475.57625432.fu969p0QH004698@rs153.luxsci.com> Message-ID: Dear colleague, For me personally, it has been Prof. Truschke's repeated mention of a particular colleague's name that seemed unnecessary and, in this context, unethical. I suppose the kinds of courses at law and medical schools that you refer to normally dispense with mentioning the names of specific colleagues who have been accused and/or found guilty of sexual harassment. And, to latch on to a point that Prof. Slaje has tried to make, I suppose most of the schools you have in mind are situated in North America, while their pedagogical practices naturally reflect preoccupations of the land. In the European academic scene (or what small part of it I can claim to be familiar with), I am happy to have experienced myself, when I was falsely accused by a band of students of having made racist and homophobic statements in class, that Universities are neither quick to dismiss the grievances of the accusers, nor the defense of the accused, and respect for due process seems to be valued more than what I gather to be the case in the North American segment of global academia - or at least among those who speak for it on this forum. INDOLOGY is an international forum, and this is not the first time that we have witnessed on the part of some North American colleagues the presumption that local preoccupations are global ones. The response that this provokes now from European scholars, in other cases from colleagues in India, seems to me a very salutary contribution to preserving diversity of perspectives in our field. Yours, Arlo Griffiths ?cole fran?aise d'Extr?me-Orient ________________________________ From: INDOLOGY on behalf of HdGoswami
Sent: Thursday, October 6, 2016 9:53 AM To: Indology List Subject: [INDOLOGY] To post or not to post Many of the best law and medical schools offer, or require, courses and seminars on the ethics and dangers of the trade, including false and valid accusations of sexual harassment. Such courses and seminars are not generally considered to be an alarming deviation from the proper subject matter of the field. As I recall, Audrey did not act as judge and jury, nor did she regale us with a sermon on political correctness. She merely posted a news item that is relevant to those who teach, or aspire to teach, Indology. Thus the strenuous objections to her post, which dwarf in volume her own, seem to be a bit preemptive. _______________________________________________ INDOLOGY mailing list INDOLOGY at list.indology.info indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) INDOLOGY Info Page listinfo.indology.info INDOLOGY is an internet discussion group whose primary purpose is to provide a forum for discussion among professional scholars of classical Indian (South Asian ... -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From philipp.a.maas at gmail.com Fri Oct 7 10:49:09 2016 From: philipp.a.maas at gmail.com (Philipp Maas) Date: Fri, 07 Oct 16 12:49:09 +0200 Subject: [INDOLOGY] To post or not to post In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Dear colleagues, I think that Arlo very appropriately highlighted the fact that we are dealing in this thread with at least two interrelated culturally specific topics. The most obvious of these is ?sexual harassment,? on which the introductory paragraph of the very informative Wikipedia Article says that ?The legal and social understanding of sexual harassment, however, varies by culture.? For example, sexual harassment is a legal crime in Switzerland, but not in Germany, and, apparently, also not in the U.S.A. This, of course, does not mean that either in the U.S.A or in Germany more severe forms of harassment are usually tolerated. The second culture-specific issue involved here is the way in which cases of violations of legal laws and ethical norms may or should be communicated publicly. This concerns the question which personal rights possible victims, suspects and alleged culprits have. I believe that mentioning a personal name in full, like it was done in the articles of ?The Guardian? that Audrey referred us to, would be totally unacceptable under German press legislation. Obviously, awareness for cultural differences is called for not only concerning the subject of our studies, but also in the dialogue among colleagues. Best wishes, Philipp __________________________ Dr. Philipp A. Maas Research Associate Insitut f?r Indologie und Zentralasienwissenschaften Universit?t Leipzig ___________________________ https://spp1448.academia.edu/PhilippMaas 2016-10-07 11:46 GMT+02:00 Arlo Griffiths : > Dear colleague, > > > For me personally, it has been Prof. Truschke's repeated mention of a > particular colleague's name that seemed unnecessary and, in this context, > unethical. I suppose the kinds of courses at law and medical schools that > you refer to normally dispense with mentioning the names of specific > colleagues who have been accused and/or found guilty of sexual harassment. > And, to latch on to a point that Prof. Slaje has tried to make, I suppose > most of the schools you have in mind are situated in North America, while > their pedagogical practices naturally reflect preoccupations of the land. > > > In the European academic scene (or what small part of it I can claim to be > familiar with), I am happy to have experienced myself, when I was falsely > accused by a band of students of having made racist and homophobic > statements in class, that Universities are neither quick to dismiss the > grievances of the accusers, nor the defense of the accused, and respect for > due process seems to be valued more than what I gather to be the case in > the North American segment of global academia ? or at least among those who > speak for it on this forum. > > > INDOLOGY is an international forum, and this is not the first time that we > have witnessed on the part of some North American colleagues the > presumption that local preoccupations are global ones. The response that > this provokes now from European scholars, in other cases from colleagues in > India, seems to me a very salutary contribution to preserving diversity of > perspectives in our field. > > > Yours, > > > Arlo Griffiths > > ?cole fran?aise d'Extr?me-Orient > > > ------------------------------ > *From:* INDOLOGY on behalf of > HdGoswami
> *Sent:* Thursday, October 6, 2016 9:53 AM > *To:* Indology List > *Subject:* [INDOLOGY] To post or not to post > > Many of the best law and medical schools offer, or require, courses and > seminars on the ethics and dangers of the trade, including false and valid > accusations of sexual harassment. Such courses and seminars are not > generally considered to be an alarming deviation from the proper subject > matter of the field. > > As I recall, Audrey did not act as judge and jury, nor did she regale us > with a sermon on political correctness. She merely posted a news item that > is relevant to those who teach, or aspire to teach, Indology. > > Thus the strenuous objections to her post, which dwarf in volume her own, > seem to be a bit preemptive. > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing > committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or > unsubscribe) > INDOLOGY Info Page > listinfo.indology.info > INDOLOGY is an internet discussion group whose primary purpose is to > provide a forum for discussion among professional scholars of classical > Indian (South Asian ... > > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing > committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or > unsubscribe) > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From audrey.truschke at gmail.com Fri Oct 7 11:59:49 2016 From: audrey.truschke at gmail.com (Audrey Truschke) Date: Fri, 07 Oct 16 07:59:49 -0400 Subject: [INDOLOGY] To post or not to post In-Reply-To: Message-ID: "INDOLOGY is an international forum, and this is not the first time that we have witnessed on the part of some North American colleagues the presumption that local preoccupations are global ones." You have to have buried your head pretty far in the sand in order to propose that sexual harassment is a specifically American problem and so somehow not also a European problem. That said, I propose that we now end this discussion. If anyone wants to criticize me further, feel free to contact me off list. Audrey Truschke Assistant Professor Department of History Rutgers University-Newark On Fri, Oct 7, 2016 at 6:49 AM, Philipp Maas wrote: > Dear colleagues, > > I think that Arlo very appropriately highlighted the fact that we are > dealing in this thread with at least two interrelated culturally specific > topics. The most obvious of these is ?sexual harassment,? on which the > introductory paragraph of the very informative Wikipedia Article > says that ?The legal > and social understanding of sexual harassment, however, varies by culture.? > For example, sexual harassment is a legal crime in Switzerland, but not in > Germany, and, apparently, also not in the U.S.A. This, of course, does not > mean that either in the U.S.A or in Germany more severe forms of harassment > are usually tolerated. > > > > The second culture-specific issue involved here is the way in which cases > of violations of legal laws and ethical norms may or should be communicated > publicly. This concerns the question which personal rights possible > victims, suspects and alleged culprits have. I believe that mentioning a > personal name in full, like it was done in the articles of ?The Guardian? > that Audrey referred us to, would be totally unacceptable under German > press legislation. > > > > Obviously, awareness for cultural differences is called for not only > concerning the subject of our studies, but also in the dialogue among > colleagues. > > > > Best wishes, > > > > Philipp > > __________________________ > > Dr. Philipp A. Maas > Research Associate > Insitut f?r Indologie und Zentralasienwissenschaften > Universit?t Leipzig > ___________________________ > > https://spp1448.academia.edu/PhilippMaas > > 2016-10-07 11:46 GMT+02:00 Arlo Griffiths : > >> Dear colleague, >> >> >> For me personally, it has been Prof. Truschke's repeated mention of a >> particular colleague's name that seemed unnecessary and, in this context, >> unethical. I suppose the kinds of courses at law and medical schools that >> you refer to normally dispense with mentioning the names of specific >> colleagues who have been accused and/or found guilty of sexual harassment. >> And, to latch on to a point that Prof. Slaje has tried to make, I suppose >> most of the schools you have in mind are situated in North America, while >> their pedagogical practices naturally reflect preoccupations of the land. >> >> >> In the European academic scene (or what small part of it I can claim to >> be familiar with), I am happy to have experienced myself, when I was >> falsely accused by a band of students of having made racist and homophobic >> statements in class, that Universities are neither quick to dismiss the >> grievances of the accusers, nor the defense of the accused, and respect for >> due process seems to be valued more than what I gather to be the case in >> the North American segment of global academia ? or at least among those who >> speak for it on this forum. >> >> >> INDOLOGY is an international forum, and this is not the first time that >> we have witnessed on the part of some North American colleagues the >> presumption that local preoccupations are global ones. The response that >> this provokes now from European scholars, in other cases from colleagues in >> India, seems to me a very salutary contribution to preserving diversity of >> perspectives in our field. >> >> >> Yours, >> >> >> Arlo Griffiths >> >> ?cole fran?aise d'Extr?me-Orient >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> *From:* INDOLOGY on behalf of >> HdGoswami
>> *Sent:* Thursday, October 6, 2016 9:53 AM >> *To:* Indology List >> *Subject:* [INDOLOGY] To post or not to post >> >> Many of the best law and medical schools offer, or require, courses and >> seminars on the ethics and dangers of the trade, including false and valid >> accusations of sexual harassment. Such courses and seminars are not >> generally considered to be an alarming deviation from the proper subject >> matter of the field. >> >> As I recall, Audrey did not act as judge and jury, nor did she regale us >> with a sermon on political correctness. She merely posted a news item that >> is relevant to those who teach, or aspire to teach, Indology. >> >> Thus the strenuous objections to her post, which dwarf in volume her own, >> seem to be a bit preemptive. >> _______________________________________________ >> INDOLOGY mailing list >> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info >> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing >> committee) >> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or >> unsubscribe) >> INDOLOGY Info Page >> listinfo.indology.info >> INDOLOGY is an internet discussion group whose primary purpose is to >> provide a forum for discussion among professional scholars of classical >> Indian (South Asian ... >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> INDOLOGY mailing list >> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info >> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing >> committee) >> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or >> unsubscribe) >> > > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing > committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or > unsubscribe) > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From isabelle.ratie at gmail.com Fri Oct 7 13:28:31 2016 From: isabelle.ratie at gmail.com (Isabelle Ratie) Date: Fri, 07 Oct 16 15:28:31 +0200 Subject: [INDOLOGY] To post or not to post In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Dear friends and colleagues, We are all tired of this discussion and I apologize for belatedly adding my voice to it. My intention was to remain silent, but I have changed my mind because Audrey Truschke has rightly pointed out that so far those voicing their disagreement with her were all men. I am a woman. I am European. There is hardly any need to say that I consider sexual harrassment utterly unacceptable. Yet as Walter Slaje and Arlo Griffiths, I did find Audrey Truschke's message somewhat disturbing. I realize that she had nothing but excellent intentions in posting it and this is certainly not to hurt her feelings; besides, Philipp Maas is probably right in pointing out that this whole disagreement might simply betray a cultural gap between the USA and Europe (which, as he also pointed out, is NOT to say that Europeans would take sexual harrassment less seriously than Americans, but only that for instance my French colleagues and myself would expect such a grave matter to be judged by an independent court of law, not by a mere university committee!). Anyway as Walter Slaje, I find public pillorying extremely unpleasant and dangerous, especially when a defamation lawsuit has been filed and a court decision is still awaited: this defamation lawsuit is presented in the post as a devious way of "silencing" the victims, and the rhetoric of the post leaves little room for the possibility that a wrongly accused man may be fighting to get his reputation back when his whole career and probably much more are at stake. Contrary to some of those who have contributed to this discussion, I believe that we cannot afford to let the medias' carelessness and self-righteousness force us to "take sides" in matters that are not theirs or ours - but only the courts' - to judge. I entirely agree with Audrey that sexual harrassment is awful and that it can occur in all academic disciplines, including ours (and indeed why would it not?); but it seems to me that it's also important to keep in mind that innocent men and women are sometimes wrongly accused; that this is why courts must be allowed to investigate in their own time and independently; that filing a defamation lawsuit is not a sure sign that a guilty individual is trying to silence his victims; and that a scholarly forum such as INDOLOGY is not an appropriate place to discuss such matters. With best wishes to all, Isabelle -- Isabelle Rati? Professor of Sanskrit Language and Literatures Sorbonne Nouvelle (University of Paris 3) http://www.iran-inde.cnrs.fr/members/permanent-members/ratie-isabelle.html?lang=en -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ssandahl at sympatico.ca Fri Oct 7 13:46:32 2016 From: ssandahl at sympatico.ca (stella sandahl) Date: Fri, 07 Oct 16 09:46:32 -0400 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Another form of harassment In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Dear all, This whole discussion reminds me of an episode that happened long ago at the then Sorbonne. One of my students rushed in and embraced me - the room was otherwise empty - declaring "Je vous aime, Madame" - to which I calmly responded "Jeune homme, je ne m'occupe pas de baby-sitting". End of story. It never occurred to me that I should report him for sexual harassment. With best wishes to all Stella Sandahl On Oct 7, 2016, at 9:28 AM, Isabelle Ratie wrote: > Dear friends and colleagues, > > We are all tired of this discussion and I apologize for belatedly adding my voice to it. My intention was to remain silent, but I have changed my mind because Audrey Truschke has rightly pointed out that so far those voicing their disagreement with her were all men. > > I am a woman. I am European. There is hardly any need to say that I consider sexual harrassment utterly unacceptable. Yet as Walter Slaje and Arlo Griffiths, I did find Audrey Truschke's message somewhat disturbing. I realize that she had nothing but excellent intentions in posting it and this is certainly not to hurt her feelings; besides, Philipp Maas is probably right in pointing out that this whole disagreement might simply betray a cultural gap between the USA and Europe (which, as he also pointed out, is NOT to say that Europeans would take sexual harrassment less seriously than Americans, but only that for instance my French colleagues and myself would expect such a grave matter to be judged by an independent court of law, not by a mere university committee!). Anyway as Walter Slaje, I find public pillorying extremely unpleasant and dangerous, especially when a defamation lawsuit has been filed and a court decision is still awaited: this defamation lawsuit is presented in the post as a devious way of "silencing" the victims, and the rhetoric of the post leaves little room for the possibility that a wrongly accused man may be fighting to get his reputation back when his whole career and probably much more are at stake. Contrary to some of those who have contributed to this discussion, I believe that we cannot afford to let the medias' carelessness and self-righteousness force us to "take sides" in matters that are not theirs or ours - but only the courts' - to judge. I entirely agree with Audrey that sexual harrassment is awful and that it can occur in all academic disciplines, including ours (and indeed why would it not?); but it seems to me that it's also important to keep in mind that innocent men and women are sometimes wrongly accused; that this is why courts must be allowed to investigate in their own time and independently; that filing a defamation lawsuit is not a sure sign that a guilty individual is trying to silence his victims; and that a scholarly forum such as INDOLOGY is not an appropriate place to discuss such matters. > > With best wishes to all, > Isabelle > -- > Isabelle Rati? > Professor of Sanskrit Language and Literatures > Sorbonne Nouvelle (University of Paris 3) > http://www.iran-inde.cnrs.fr/members/permanent-members/ratie-isabelle.html?lang=en > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From karp at uw.edu.pl Fri Oct 7 14:21:29 2016 From: karp at uw.edu.pl (Artur Karp) Date: Fri, 07 Oct 16 16:21:29 +0200 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Sexual Harassment Message-ID: Dear All, has the topic of sexual harassment been ever addressed within South Asian Studies? If not - why? Artur Karp (ret.) Uniwersytet Warszawski Polska -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From shyamr at yorku.ca Fri Oct 7 14:28:56 2016 From: shyamr at yorku.ca (Shyam Ranganathan) Date: Fri, 07 Oct 16 10:28:56 -0400 Subject: [INDOLOGY] To post or not to post In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <2cdd8c6e-22c9-cf88-125e-1fc4c211b087@yorku.ca> Dear list members, I too thought I would keep quite. As a moral philosopher who deals with these kinds of issues, I have too much to say so I thought to say nothing. But I have been amazed that this thread has continued in part due to all the objections to the original post (which probably would have peacefully receded into the background had it not hit a nerve). I have been struck by the following: (1) How relevant one believes sexual harassment is to Indology has to do with how worried one is about encountering this in one's research as an Indologist. The issue is not merely about whether one is male or female, but also about whether one is senior or junior. As our junior colleagues are the most vulnerable and least likely to have a voice in print and the scholarly community, we ought to think twice before we silence their concerns, as many on this list of tried. (2) The second issue is about trial by press. There are several concerns here. One is the stigma attached to the victims and complainants---reporting sexual harassment is often described by such individuals as a second assault. Then there is the very real and credible concern that people's reputations can be damaged by false accusations. I take the latter possibility seriously. Berkeley seems to be on a role with handling sexual harassment badly, alternating between suppressing the issue and then publicly misrepresenting facts of cases. The only solution to both problems, it seems to me, is to be willing to talk about the issue, for if we treat the very mention of sexual harassment as inappropriate for public discussion in scholarly settings, we do nothing to deflate the stigma of reporting such cases, or the stigma of being falsely accused. Best wishes, Shyam Ranganathan Department of Philosophy York University Toronto On 07/10/2016 9:28 AM, Isabelle Ratie wrote: > Dear friends and colleagues, > > We are all tired of this discussion and I apologize for belatedly > adding my voice to it. My intention was to remain silent, but I have > changed my mind because Audrey Truschke has rightly pointed out that > so far those voicing their disagreement with her were all men. > > I am a woman. I am European. There is hardly any need to say that I > consider sexual harrassment utterly unacceptable. Yet as Walter Slaje > and Arlo Griffiths, I did find Audrey Truschke's message somewhat > disturbing. I realize that she had nothing but excellent intentions in > posting it and this is certainly not to hurt her feelings; besides, > Philipp Maas is probably right in pointing out that this whole > disagreement might simply betray a cultural gap between the USA and > Europe (which, as he also pointed out, is NOT to say that Europeans > would take sexual harrassment less seriously than Americans, but only > that for instance my French colleagues and myself would expect such a > grave matter to be judged by an independent court of law, not by a > mere university committee!). Anyway as Walter Slaje, I find public > pillorying extremely unpleasant and dangerous, especially when a > defamation lawsuit has been filed and a court decision is still > awaited: this defamation lawsuit is presented in the post as a devious > way of "silencing" the victims, and the rhetoric of the post leaves > little room for the possibility that a wrongly accused man may be > fighting to get his reputation back when his whole career and probably > much more are at stake. Contrary to some of those who have contributed > to this discussion, I believe that we cannot afford to let the medias' > carelessness and self-righteousness force us to "take sides" in > matters that are not theirs or ours - but only the courts' - to judge. > I entirely agree with Audrey that sexual harrassment is awful and that > it can occur in all academic disciplines, including ours (and indeed > why would it not?); but it seems to me that it's also important to > keep in mind that innocent men and women are sometimes wrongly > accused; that this is why courts must be allowed to investigate in > their own time and independently; that filing a defamation lawsuit is > not a sure sign that a guilty individual is trying to silence his > victims; and that a scholarly forum such as INDOLOGY is not an > appropriate place to discuss such matters. > > With best wishes to all, > Isabelle > -- > Isabelle Rati? > Professor of Sanskrit Language and Literatures > Sorbonne Nouvelle (University of Paris 3) > http://www.iran-inde.cnrs.fr/members/permanent-members/ratie-isabelle.html?lang=en > > > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mark.mcclish at northwestern.edu Fri Oct 7 16:13:50 2016 From: mark.mcclish at northwestern.edu (Mark McClish) Date: Fri, 07 Oct 16 16:13:50 +0000 Subject: [INDOLOGY] capital punishment In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <4BCFE194-5BDD-40B6-ACA6-593BABDBD9A3@northwestern.edu> Patrick, Most capital offenses are dealt with in the final chapters of the fourth book of the Kau?ilya?s Artha??stra, called ka??aka?odhana. I don?t recall this method being prescribed there, but I would suppose that it could constitute what the text calls citravadha, ?vivid execution? or execution with torture. Best, Mark On Oct 7, 2016, at 2:53 AM, Ashok Aklujkar > wrote: Itu??nala, tu??gni, etc. (with other synonyms of agni appearing as the second member of the compound) occur in the story about Dharma-k?rti/a Buddhist teacher and Kum?rila. It does refer to a capital punishment but to a self-inflicted capital punishment ? a pr?ya?citta in which the repentant person chooses to die in a slow-burning fire to atone for what he considers to be a grave sin. A reference exists in one of the ?a?kara/???kara-vijayas/digvijayas. (I cannot give you a precise reference at present because I am away from my personal library.) The context is one in which the great Advaitin teacher ?a?kara wishes to debate with the great M?m??saka Kum?rila. However, when ?a?kara approaches Kum?rila, he finds him self-immolating in tu?a fire. guru-droha or a Vaidika?s studying with a Buddhist is usually given as the reason behind Kum?rila?s choosing to die in a very painful way. a.a. On Oct 6, 2016, at 4:00 PM, patrick mccartney > wrote: I came across this word below while looking up the meaning of another word in the dictionary. I am curious to know in which text(s) it might be found. Is there a section on capital punishment in the artha??stras? ?????? tuSAnala m. capital punishment consisting in twisting dry straw round a criminal'slimbs and setting it on fire _______________________________________________ INDOLOGY mailing list INDOLOGY at list.indology.info indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__listinfo.indology.info&d=CwICAg&c=yHlS04HhBraes5BQ9ueu5zKhE7rtNXt_d012z2PA6ws&r=0VMy4AVIL7ZKIaC4sH1Pm49PWgKJk0KFb86IpzVGC5E&m=Rjl9tY4q2UG3x2j836CtQrKbBugK4XU7OEtHUHiGXGw&s=fJZ-g7pgh0odG8svsJtllOdakXXmZocwnFEmcZVoN1w&e= (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From karp at uw.edu.pl Fri Oct 7 16:29:54 2016 From: karp at uw.edu.pl (Artur Karp) Date: Fri, 07 Oct 16 18:29:54 +0200 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Sexual Harassment In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Any evidence of sexual violence against tribal and Dalit women and girls - in the Indian literary tradition? I'd be grateful for bibliographical hints, Artur Karp 2016-10-07 16:21 GMT+02:00 Artur Karp : > Dear All, > > has the topic of sexual harassment been ever addressed within South Asian > Studies? > > If not - why? > > Artur Karp (ret.) > > Uniwersytet Warszawski > Polska > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mrinalkaul81 at gmail.com Fri Oct 7 16:59:06 2016 From: mrinalkaul81 at gmail.com (Mrinal Kaul) Date: Fri, 07 Oct 16 22:29:06 +0530 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Deadline: International Workshop on Tantric Studies, Manipal, India January 23-27, 2017 Message-ID: ?Dear All, This is a gentle reminder about the deadline (November 1, 2016) for applying to participate in the *International Tantra Workshop* to be held in Manipal University, India in the month of January 2017. Please check the details following the link below: https://kashuradab.wordpress.com/international-workshop-on-tantric-studies/ We still have few slots left for potential participants.? Looking forward. Mrinal Kaul (Workshop Coordinator) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From nagarajpaturi at gmail.com Fri Oct 7 18:16:44 2016 From: nagarajpaturi at gmail.com (Nagaraj Paturi) Date: Fri, 07 Oct 16 23:46:44 +0530 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Sexual Harassment In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I guess studies focussed on Draupadi's disrobing or Draupadi's harassment by Keechaka must have dealt with the issue of sexual harassment, though I do not have a ready bibliography. On Fri, Oct 7, 2016 at 7:51 PM, Artur Karp wrote: > Dear All, > > has the topic of sexual harassment been ever addressed within South Asian > Studies? > > If not - why? > > Artur Karp (ret.) > > Uniwersytet Warszawski > Polska > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing > committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or > unsubscribe) > -- Nagaraj Paturi Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA. Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of Liberal Education, (Pune, Maharashtra, INDIA ) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ashok.aklujkar at gmail.com Sat Oct 8 04:15:32 2016 From: ashok.aklujkar at gmail.com (Ashok Aklujkar) Date: Fri, 07 Oct 16 21:15:32 -0700 Subject: [INDOLOGY] capital punishment Message-ID: <39996D75-E5E9-4259-9286-B2089B1F8139@gmail.com> Making the ?a?kara/???kara-vijayas/digvijaya references precise: See Vidy?ra?ya?s / M?dhava?s ???kara-digvijaya, sarga 7, verses 75, 77, 78, and 105. Also, ?nanda-giri?s ?a?kara-vijaya, 55th chapter, prose passage p. 236 of the Bibliotheca Indica edition, where kar??a takes the place of tu?a (both produce slow-burning fire). a.a. From jpo at austin.utexas.edu Sat Oct 8 12:51:10 2016 From: jpo at austin.utexas.edu (Olivelle, J P) Date: Sat, 08 Oct 16 12:51:10 +0000 Subject: [INDOLOGY] capital punishment In-Reply-To: <39996D75-E5E9-4259-9286-B2089B1F8139@gmail.com> Message-ID: <28AA261F-4C3E-4843-8512-3E39DE7A81B6@austin.utexas.edu> In the Dharma??stras, ?straw-fire? is generally referred to as ka??gni, and it is used as a means of execution: See Manu 8.377; Y?j?avalkya 2.282; Baudh?yana 2.2.3.52; > On Oct 7, 2016, at 11:15 PM, Ashok Aklujkar wrote: > > Making the ?a?kara/???kara-vijayas/digvijaya references precise: > > See Vidy?ra?ya?s / M?dhava?s ???kara-digvijaya, sarga 7, verses 75, 77, 78, and 105. > > Also, ?nanda-giri?s ?a?kara-vijaya, 55th chapter, prose passage p. 236 of the Bibliotheca Indica edition, where kar??a takes the place of tu?a (both produce slow-burning fire). > > a.a. > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) From birgit.kellner at oeaw.ac.at Sat Oct 8 12:56:29 2016 From: birgit.kellner at oeaw.ac.at (Birgit Kellner) Date: Sat, 08 Oct 16 14:56:29 +0200 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Fwd: 2016 Buddhist Studies Call for Applications In-Reply-To: <20161006152627.SM02051@web1> Message-ID: This call may be of interest. With best regards, Birgit Kellner -------- Weitergeleitete Nachricht -------- Betreff: 2016 Buddhist Studies Call for Applications Datum: Thu, 6 Oct 2016 15:26:13 -0400 Von: ACLS News An: birgit.kellner at oeaw.ac.at Email *The Robert H. N. Ho Family Foundation Fellowship and Grant Competitions in Buddhist Studies * *2016-17 Call for Applications* The American Council of Learned Societies (ACLS) invites applications for The Robert H. N. Ho Family Foundation Program in Buddhist Studies. In cooperation with the Foundation, ACLS offers an integrated set of fellowship and grant competitions to expand the understanding and interpretation of Buddhist thought in scholarship and society, to strengthen international networks of Buddhist studies, and to increase the visibility of innovative currents in those studies. Dissertation Fellowships One-year stipends to PhD candidates for full- time preparation of dissertations Postdoctoral Fellowships Two-year stipends to recent recipients of the PhD for residence at a university for research, writing, and teaching Collaborative Research Fellowships Support for teams of two or more scholars working on interdisciplinary or transdisciplinary projects Research Fellowships One-year stipends for scholars who hold a PhD degree, with no restrictions on time from the PhD New Professorships Multi-year grants to colleges and universities to establish or expand teaching in Buddhist studies These are global competitions. There are no restrictions as to the location of work proposed, the citizenship of applicants, or the languages of the final written product. Applications must be submitted in English. Program information and applications are available here . Deadline for applications for Fellowships: November 15, 2016 Deadline for institutional applications for New Professorships: January 11, 2017 For more information please email BuddhistStudies at acls.org. The American Council of Learned Societies, a private, nonprofit federation of 74 national scholarly organizations, is the preeminent representative of American scholarship in the humanities and related social sciences. Advancing scholarship by awarding fellowships and strengthening relations among learned societies is central to ACLS?s work. This year, ACLS awarded more than $18 million to over 300 scholars across a variety of humanistic disciplines. *AMERICAN COUNCIL OF LEARNED SOCIETIES* 633 THIRD AVENUE, NEW YORK, NY 10017-6795 TELEPHONE: 212-697-1505 Connect with ACLS www.acls.org From paoloe.rosati at gmail.com Sat Oct 8 14:17:41 2016 From: paoloe.rosati at gmail.com (Paolo Eugenio Rosati) Date: Sat, 08 Oct 16 16:17:41 +0200 Subject: [INDOLOGY] EAAA conference Panels' info Message-ID: Dear Indologists, Next August 2017 there will be in Zurich the conference organised by "European Association for Asian Art and Archaeology" http://www.ea-aaa.eu/conference-2017/eaaa-conference-zurich-2017/zurich-2017-call-for-papers I'd like to know if anyone has already planned a panel centred on *shakta-tantra* art or on the methodological approach to the study of a religious site throughout the interrelation of textual/epigraphic, ritual (also contemporary praxis) and art evidences. I would also know if there is some one interested to co-organize a panel. Unluckily the time is very little, because the deadline for the panel/abstract proposal is 15th November. Please feel free to contact me also off-list. Best, Paolo -- Paolo E. Rosati Oriental Archaeologist PhD candidate in "Civilizations of Asia and Africa" South Asia Section Dep. Italian Institute of Oriental Studies/ISO 'Sapienza' University of Rome *https://uniroma1.academia.edu/PaoloRosati/ * paoloe.rosati at uniroma1.it paoloe.rosati at gmail.com Skype: paoloe.rosati Mobile: (+39) 338 73 83 472 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From psdmccartney at gmail.com Sun Oct 9 10:16:01 2016 From: psdmccartney at gmail.com (patrick mccartney) Date: Sun, 09 Oct 16 20:46:01 +1030 Subject: [INDOLOGY] capital punishment In-Reply-To: <28AA261F-4C3E-4843-8512-3E39DE7A81B6@austin.utexas.edu> Message-ID: Thank you to everyone who has responded about my query into capital punishment. All the best, Patrick McCartney, PhD Fellow School of Culture, History & Language College of the Asia-Pacific The Australian National University Canberra, Australia, 0200 Skype - psdmccartney Phone + Whatsapp: +61 414 954 748 Twitter - @psdmccartney academia - Linkedin Edanz #yogabodyANU2016 symposium Ep1 - Imagining Sanskrit Land Ep 2 - Total-am Ep 3 - Jalam ? Chillum Ep 4 - It's Time to get Married A Day in our Ashram Stop animation short film of Shakuntala Forced to Clean Human Waste One of my favourite song s On Sat, Oct 8, 2016 at 11:21 PM, Olivelle, J P wrote: > In the Dharma??stras, ?straw-fire? is generally referred to as ka??gni, > and it is used as a means of execution: > > See Manu 8.377; Y?j?avalkya 2.282; Baudh?yana 2.2.3.52; > > > > > > On Oct 7, 2016, at 11:15 PM, Ashok Aklujkar > wrote: > > > > Making the ?a?kara/???kara-vijayas/digvijaya references precise: > > > > See Vidy?ra?ya?s / M?dhava?s ???kara-digvijaya, sarga 7, verses 75, 77, > 78, and 105. > > > > Also, ?nanda-giri?s ?a?kara-vijaya, 55th chapter, prose passage p. 236 > of the Bibliotheca Indica edition, where kar??a takes the place of tu?a > (both produce slow-burning fire). > > > > a.a. > > _______________________________________________ > > INDOLOGY mailing list > > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing > committee) > > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options > or unsubscribe) > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From christophe.vielle at uclouvain.be Mon Oct 10 13:19:27 2016 From: christophe.vielle at uclouvain.be (Christophe Vielle) Date: Mon, 10 Oct 16 15:19:27 +0200 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Font family for Indian scripts (Google Noto Fonts) Message-ID: <7FF23C0A-61DE-495E-A937-F507AB145BED@uclouvain.be> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Noto_fonts See, however, the list given below the table, of the "Unicode scripts [which] are currently not [yet] supported by any Noto font" https://www.google.com/get/noto/ ??????????????????? Christophe Vielle Louvain-la-Neuve -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From martin.gansten at pbhome.se Tue Oct 11 14:14:27 2016 From: martin.gansten at pbhome.se (Martin Gansten) Date: Tue, 11 Oct 16 16:14:27 +0200 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Kalapattana, black men, and some medical terms Message-ID: <0d8bf29f-98ba-7788-0b59-49e055c10f44@pbhome.se> The /H?yanasundara/, a seemingly fairly late astrological text (quoted by Balabhadra in the early 17th century) in simple, inelegant Sanskrit, contains some phrases that I am not quite sure about. First, in a description of the joint results of the sun and moon, there are the following stanzas: var?asv?m? yad? s?ryas [...] yadi candramas? yuta? [...] ?vetakray??ak?l l?bho vi?e??t kalapattan? | (some MSS read kalapattanam) ?ayan??anavastr?di mi???nnasv?dubhojanam || saudhotsa?gasthito g?tan?tyalolupam?nasa? | str?vatsala? sugandh??hyo r?trau sukhitacetasa? || I don't know what to make of kalapattana/-?: is it the name of a place (reading -?t), as the second member suggests, and if so, where? Or does it refer to a type of merchandise, or to something else entirely? Second, the description of the joint results of the sun and Venus lists a number of medical conditions. The underlined phrases are particularly problematic: ravir atha sitad???a? sa?yuto v? jvar?rtir bhavati ?irasi p??? _chardir_ apy eti _v?ntim_ | bhavati ja?hara??la? _k?sapitt?tis?rai_ ripubhayam atha cint? sth?nato bhra??am eti || yad?gneyadi?o l?bha? _pittak?maladadrut??_ | gala? ?u?yati ?ukre?a ravir d???o yuto yadi || What might the difference be between chardi and v?nti, both of which seem generally to mean 'vomiting' but are apparently differentiated here? And how are the compounded names of medical conditions best understood? Finally, the text refers repeatedly to 'black men' (asita-m?nava, k???a-manuja). I have never seen these or similar terms used of dark-skinned Indians. Does it seem reasonable to assume that they are used here to refer to people of African origin, and if so, what (if anything) does that tell us of the likely date and place of the text? I should be grateful for any comments or suggestions. Martin Gansten -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jacob at fabularasa.dk Tue Oct 11 15:10:07 2016 From: jacob at fabularasa.dk (jacob at fabularasa.dk) Date: Tue, 11 Oct 16 17:10:07 +0200 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Information sought regarding Telugu "Saccra" (cakra) Message-ID: <6813e79a539de668e57d2889395bfa8d@fabularasa.dk> Dear list, Bornholms Museum, located on the eponymous rock island in the Baltic Sea, asked me for clarification about the attached object. According to the registration notes, which probably date back about a hundred years, it is a Telugu "Saccra" (cakra) used to ward off disease and spirits of possession. It is also stated that cakras are generally installed below temple deities to empower the deity and attract people to the temple. If anybody knows the specific name of the cakra and any other details of its application, I would be happy to convey the information to the museum. I would also be interested to know what the distinction between a cakra and a yantra is in this context, and whether the installation of cakras/yantras to empower deities, attract people, or otherwise is indeed a general practice in Indian temples. Kind regards, Jacob Jacob Schmidt-Madsen PhD Fellow (Indology) Department of Cross-Cultural and Regional Studies University of Copenhagen Denmark -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Saccra_BornholmsMuseum_small.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 291610 bytes Desc: not available URL: From arlogriffiths at hotmail.com Tue Oct 11 16:00:43 2016 From: arlogriffiths at hotmail.com (Arlo Griffiths) Date: Tue, 11 Oct 16 16:00:43 +0000 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Information sought regarding Telugu "Saccra" (cakra) In-Reply-To: <6813e79a539de668e57d2889395bfa8d@fabularasa.dk> Message-ID: Dear Jacob, You should consult this work: ?l?czka, A.A. 2007. Temple Consecration Rituals in Ancient India: Text and Archaeology. Brill?s Indological Library 26. Leiden: Brill. For amusement, I attach a photo of a somewhat similar stone from East Java at the provincial museum in Sidoarjo: the shape of the ak?aras indicates a date in the 11th c.; no information on archaeological context. This particular stone if of the prast?ra type: the alphabet is laid out over the stone. I have been wondering myself what place such a stone would have had in a temple. Best, Arlo ________________________________ From: INDOLOGY on behalf of jacob at fabularasa.dk Sent: Tuesday, October 11, 2016 3:10 PM To: Indology Mailing List Subject: [INDOLOGY] Information sought regarding Telugu "Saccra" (cakra) Dear list, Bornholms Museum, located on the eponymous rock island in the Baltic Sea, asked me for clarification about the attached object. According to the registration notes, which probably date back about a hundred years, it is a Telugu "Saccra" (cakra) used to ward off disease and spirits of possession. It is also stated that cakras are generally installed below temple deities to empower the deity and attract people to the temple. If anybody knows the specific name of the cakra and any other details of its application, I would be happy to convey the information to the museum. I would also be interested to know what the distinction between a cakra and a yantra is in this context, and whether the installation of cakras/yantras to empower deities, attract people, or otherwise is indeed a general practice in Indian temples. Kind regards, Jacob Jacob Schmidt-Madsen PhD Fellow (Indology) Department of Cross-Cultural and Regional Studies University of Copenhagen Denmark -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: prastara.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 458738 bytes Desc: not available URL: From nagarajpaturi at gmail.com Tue Oct 11 20:04:52 2016 From: nagarajpaturi at gmail.com (Nagaraj Paturi) Date: Wed, 12 Oct 16 01:34:52 +0530 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Information sought regarding Telugu "Saccra" (cakra) In-Reply-To: <6813e79a539de668e57d2889395bfa8d@fabularasa.dk> Message-ID: Dear Jacob, It is a Yantra. It has the word yantra inscribed on it. It has : ?????????? ???????(sic) ?????????? ????? ?? ?? ?????? ?????????? (ya?trar?j?ya vidmahi mah?ya?tr?ya dh?mahi ?a? n? ya?tra? prac?day?t ) ??????? ??????????????? ???? ?????? .... ?????? (asmin t??braya?trasukha? cira? kartu? .... sv?h? ) ??? ?????? ??????? (sic) ??? ?????? ????? (h?? jval?ya vidmahi (sic) mah? ??lin? dh?mahi ) There is a mention of a deity called pratikriy???lin in the yantra. This may indicate that the yantra is meant to counter the action of another supernatural power. If this guess is correct, it is usually not the kind used in the prat??h? in a temple. The interpretation " it is a Telugu "Saccra" (cakra) used to ward off disease and spirits of possession" should be correct. Using yantras in the installation (prat??h? ) in a temple is a usual practice. But this one does not seem to be of that kind. On Tue, Oct 11, 2016 at 8:40 PM, wrote: > Dear list, > > Bornholms Museum, located on the eponymous rock island in the Baltic Sea, > asked me for clarification about the attached object. According to the > registration notes, which probably date back about a hundred years, it is a > Telugu "Saccra" (cakra) used to ward off disease and spirits of possession. > It is also stated that cakras are generally installed below temple deities > to empower the deity and attract people to the temple. > > If anybody knows the specific name of the cakra and any other details of > its application, I would be happy to convey the information to the museum. > I would also be interested to know what the distinction between a cakra and > a yantra is in this context, and whether the installation of cakras/yantras > to empower deities, attract people, or otherwise is indeed a general > practice in Indian temples. > > Kind regards, > Jacob > > Jacob Schmidt-Madsen > PhD Fellow (Indology) > Department of Cross-Cultural and Regional Studies > University of Copenhagen > Denmark > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing > committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or > unsubscribe) > -- Nagaraj Paturi Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA. Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of Liberal Education, (Pune, Maharashtra, INDIA ) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jacob at fabularasa.dk Tue Oct 11 20:56:12 2016 From: jacob at fabularasa.dk (jacob at fabularasa.dk) Date: Tue, 11 Oct 16 22:56:12 +0200 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Information sought regarding Telugu "Saccra" (cakra) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <4f47a6909cc9a6f46ba1cf917b55cdb9@fabularasa.dk> Dear Nagaraj, Many thanks for your reading of the yantra, and for the confirmation that it is indeed a yantra (though I would still be curious to know if cakra is sometimes used with the same meaning). I am sure the museum will be most appreciate of the information. Also thanks to Arlo Griffiths for the references. A. A. ?l?czka's original doctoral thesis can be downloaded from Leiden University here: https://openaccess.leidenuniv.nl/bitstream/handle/1887/4581/total%20document.pdf?sequence=17 Best wishes, Jacob Nagaraj Paturi skrev den 2016-10-11 22:04: > Dear Jacob, > > It is a Yantra. It has the word yantra inscribed on it. > > It has : > > ?????????? ???????(sic) > ?????????? ????? ?? ?? > ?????? ?????????? > > (ya?trar?j?ya vidmahi mah?ya?tr?ya dh?mahi ?a? n? > ya?tra? prac?day?t ) > > ??????? ??????????????? > ???? ?????? .... ?????? > > (asmin t??braya?trasukha? cira? kartu? .... sv?h? ) > > ??? ?????? ??????? (sic) ??? > ?????? ????? > > (h?? jval?ya vidmahi (sic) mah? ??lin? dh?mahi ) > > There is a mention of a deity called pratikriy???lin in the > yantra. > > This may indicate that the yantra is meant to counter the action of > another supernatural power. > > If this guess is correct, it is usually not the kind used in the > prat??h? in a temple. > > The interpretation " it is a Telugu "Saccra" (cakra) used to ward off > disease and spirits of possession" should be correct. > > Using yantras in the installation (prat??h? ) in a temple is a > usual practice. But this one does not seem to be of that kind. > > On Tue, Oct 11, 2016 at 8:40 PM, wrote: > >> Dear list, >> >> Bornholms Museum, located on the eponymous rock island in the Baltic >> Sea, asked me for clarification about the attached object. According >> to the registration notes, which probably date back about a hundred >> years, it is a Telugu "Saccra" (cakra) used to ward off disease and >> spirits of possession. It is also stated that cakras are generally >> installed below temple deities to empower the deity and attract >> people to the temple. >> >> If anybody knows the specific name of the cakra and any other >> details of its application, I would be happy to convey the >> information to the museum. I would also be interested to know what >> the distinction between a cakra and a yantra is in this context, and >> whether the installation of cakras/yantras to empower deities, >> attract people, or otherwise is indeed a general practice in Indian >> temples. >> >> Kind regards, >> Jacob >> >> Jacob Schmidt-Madsen >> PhD Fellow (Indology) >> Department of Cross-Cultural and Regional Studies >> University of Copenhagen >> Denmark >> _______________________________________________ >> INDOLOGY mailing list >> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info >> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing >> committee) >> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list >> options or unsubscribe) > > -- > > Nagaraj Paturi > > Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA. > > Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies > > FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of Liberal Education, > > (Pune, Maharashtra, INDIA ) From psdmccartney at gmail.com Wed Oct 12 00:22:09 2016 From: psdmccartney at gmail.com (patrick mccartney) Date: Wed, 12 Oct 16 10:52:09 +1030 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Information sought regarding Telugu "Saccra" (cakra) In-Reply-To: <4f47a6909cc9a6f46ba1cf917b55cdb9@fabularasa.dk> Message-ID: Speaking of chakras and letters, on pp 705-707 of Grierson's article on the Sharada script https://archive.org/details/244194891OnTheSharadaA lphabetJournalOfTheRoyalAsiaticSociety171916SirGeorgeGriersonKCIEMRAS is an explanation of the metaphysics of the alphabet. Unfortunately, there is only a discussion of the vowels and not the consonants, etc. It seems that the file on archive is not complete. Even though the title page says the last page is 708, it does seem to have an abrupt ending. But On p 705 the following book is mentioned http://www.worldcat. org/title/shiva-sutra-vimarsini-of-ksemaraja/oclc/21777974 - I'm guessing this is the possible source for Grierson's discussion on the alphabet. Unfortunately, the closest copy to me is about 5000 miles away. Archive.org has two other books by the author, Iyengar, but not this one. https://archive.org/search.php?query=creator%3A%22 Srinivasa+Iyengar%2C+P.+T.%2C+1863-1931%22 Might you have a .pdf copy of this book? The Shiva-sutra-vimarsini? of Ksemaraja (1912) by Iyengar I'd appreciate it if anyone might be able to help me find similar discussions/information on the rest of the alphabet? If they are mentioned in Ksemaraja's work, does anyone know exactly where? I had a quick look in the ?aktop?ya section. All the best, Patrick McCartney, PhD Fellow School of Culture, History & Language College of the Asia-Pacific The Australian National University Canberra, Australia, 0200 Skype - psdmccartney Phone + Whatsapp: +61 414 954 748 Twitter - @psdmccartney academia - Linkedin Edanz #yogabodyANU2016 symposium Ep1 - Imagining Sanskrit Land Ep 2 - Total-am Ep 3 - Jalam ? Chillum Ep 4 - It's Time to get Married A Day in our Ashram Stop animation short film of Shakuntala Forced to Clean Human Waste One of my favourite song s On Wed, Oct 12, 2016 at 7:26 AM, wrote: > Dear Nagaraj, > > Many thanks for your reading of the yantra, and for the confirmation that > it is indeed a yantra (though I would still be curious to know if cakra is > sometimes used with the same meaning). I am sure the museum will be most > appreciate of the information. > > Also thanks to Arlo Griffiths for the references. A. A. ?l?czka's original > doctoral thesis can be downloaded from Leiden University here: > > https://openaccess.leidenuniv.nl/bitstream/handle/1887/4581/ > total%20document.pdf?sequence=17 > > Best wishes, > Jacob > > > Nagaraj Paturi skrev den 2016-10-11 22:04: > >> Dear Jacob, >> >> It is a Yantra. It has the word yantra inscribed on it. >> >> It has : >> >> ?????????? ???????(sic) >> ?????????? ????? ?? ?? >> ?????? ?????????? >> >> (ya?trar?j?ya vidmahi mah?ya?tr?ya dh?mahi ?a? n? >> ya?tra? prac?day?t ) >> >> ??????? ??????????????? >> ???? ?????? .... ?????? >> >> (asmin t??braya?trasukha? cira? kartu? .... sv?h? ) >> >> ??? ?????? ??????? (sic) ??? >> ?????? ????? >> >> (h?? jval?ya vidmahi (sic) mah? ??lin? dh?mahi ) >> >> There is a mention of a deity called pratikriy???lin in the >> yantra. >> >> This may indicate that the yantra is meant to counter the action of >> another supernatural power. >> >> If this guess is correct, it is usually not the kind used in the >> prat??h? in a temple. >> >> The interpretation " it is a Telugu "Saccra" (cakra) used to ward off >> disease and spirits of possession" should be correct. >> >> Using yantras in the installation (prat??h? ) in a temple is a >> usual practice. But this one does not seem to be of that kind. >> >> On Tue, Oct 11, 2016 at 8:40 PM, wrote: >> >> Dear list, >>> >>> Bornholms Museum, located on the eponymous rock island in the Baltic >>> Sea, asked me for clarification about the attached object. According >>> to the registration notes, which probably date back about a hundred >>> years, it is a Telugu "Saccra" (cakra) used to ward off disease and >>> spirits of possession. It is also stated that cakras are generally >>> installed below temple deities to empower the deity and attract >>> people to the temple. >>> >>> If anybody knows the specific name of the cakra and any other >>> details of its application, I would be happy to convey the >>> information to the museum. I would also be interested to know what >>> the distinction between a cakra and a yantra is in this context, and >>> whether the installation of cakras/yantras to empower deities, >>> attract people, or otherwise is indeed a general practice in Indian >>> temples. >>> >>> Kind regards, >>> Jacob >>> >>> Jacob Schmidt-Madsen >>> PhD Fellow (Indology) >>> Department of Cross-Cultural and Regional Studies >>> University of Copenhagen >>> Denmark >>> _______________________________________________ >>> INDOLOGY mailing list >>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info >>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing >>> committee) >>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list >>> options or unsubscribe) >>> >> >> -- >> >> Nagaraj Paturi >> >> Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA. >> >> Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies >> >> FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of Liberal Education, >> >> (Pune, Maharashtra, INDIA ) >> > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing > committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or > unsubscribe) > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From nagarajpaturi at gmail.com Wed Oct 12 04:40:14 2016 From: nagarajpaturi at gmail.com (Nagaraj Paturi) Date: Wed, 12 Oct 16 10:10:14 +0530 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Information sought regarding Telugu "Saccra" (cakra) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Dear Jacob, I forgot to answer your Chakra vs Yantra question. Sri Chakra is the same as Sri Yantra. All such chakras are yantras. But not all yantras are chakras. Yantra is the generic term and the most frequently used term. Yantra is part of the three component system mantra-yantra-tantra. Aagamas are the books that deal with the procedures of installations at temples. There are quite a few western Indologists who studied these books. I attended a paper presentation on the topic at SALC department, University of Chicago. By the way, the script used in the yantra under question has glyph features of an older style of Telugu writing, not 100 years as assumed by the museum people. On Wed, Oct 12, 2016 at 5:52 AM, patrick mccartney wrote: > Speaking of chakras and letters, on pp 705-707 of Grierson's article on > the Sharada script https://archive.org/details/244194891OnTheSharadaAlph > abetJournalOfTheRoyalAsiaticSociety171916SirGeorgeGriersonKCIEMRAS > is an explanation of the metaphysics of the alphabet. Unfortunately, there > is only a discussion of the vowels and not the consonants, etc. It seems > that the file on archive is not complete. Even though the title page says > the last page is 708, it does seem to have an abrupt ending. > > > But > > On p 705 the following book is mentioned http://www.worldcat. > org/title/shiva-sutra-vimarsini-of-ksemaraja/oclc/21777974 - I'm guessing > this is the possible source for Grierson's discussion on the alphabet. > Unfortunately, the closest copy to me is about 5000 miles away. Archive.org > has two other books by the author, Iyengar, but not this one. > https://archive.org/search.php?query=creator%3A%22Srini > vasa+Iyengar%2C+P.+T.%2C+1863-1931%22 > > Might you have a .pdf copy of this book? > The Shiva-sutra-vimarsini? of Ksemaraja (1912) by Iyengar > > > I'd appreciate it if anyone might be able to help me find similar > discussions/information on the rest of the alphabet? If they are mentioned > in Ksemaraja's work, does anyone know exactly where? I had a quick look in > the ?aktop?ya section. > > > All the best, > > Patrick McCartney, PhD > Fellow > School of Culture, History & Language > College of the Asia-Pacific > The Australian National University > Canberra, Australia, 0200 > > > Skype - psdmccartney > Phone + Whatsapp: +61 414 954 748 > Twitter - @psdmccartney > > > academia > > - > > Linkedin > > > Edanz > > #yogabodyANU2016 symposium > > > Ep1 - Imagining Sanskrit Land > > Ep 2 - Total-am > > Ep 3 - Jalam ? Chillum > > Ep 4 - It's Time to get Married > > > A Day in our Ashram > > > Stop animation short film of Shakuntala > > > Forced to Clean Human Waste > > One of my favourite song > s > > > > > > On Wed, Oct 12, 2016 at 7:26 AM, wrote: > >> Dear Nagaraj, >> >> Many thanks for your reading of the yantra, and for the confirmation that >> it is indeed a yantra (though I would still be curious to know if cakra is >> sometimes used with the same meaning). I am sure the museum will be most >> appreciate of the information. >> >> Also thanks to Arlo Griffiths for the references. A. A. ?l?czka's >> original doctoral thesis can be downloaded from Leiden University here: >> >> https://openaccess.leidenuniv.nl/bitstream/handle/1887/4581/ >> total%20document.pdf?sequence=17 >> >> Best wishes, >> Jacob >> >> >> Nagaraj Paturi skrev den 2016-10-11 22:04: >> >>> Dear Jacob, >>> >>> It is a Yantra. It has the word yantra inscribed on it. >>> >>> It has : >>> >>> ?????????? ???????(sic) >>> ?????????? ????? ?? ?? >>> ?????? ?????????? >>> >>> (ya?trar?j?ya vidmahi mah?ya?tr?ya dh?mahi ?a? n? >>> ya?tra? prac?day?t ) >>> >>> ??????? ??????????????? >>> ???? ?????? .... ?????? >>> >>> (asmin t??braya?trasukha? cira? kartu? .... sv?h? ) >>> >>> ??? ?????? ??????? (sic) ??? >>> ?????? ????? >>> >>> (h?? jval?ya vidmahi (sic) mah? ??lin? dh?mahi ) >>> >>> There is a mention of a deity called pratikriy???lin in the >>> yantra. >>> >>> This may indicate that the yantra is meant to counter the action of >>> another supernatural power. >>> >>> If this guess is correct, it is usually not the kind used in the >>> prat??h? in a temple. >>> >>> The interpretation " it is a Telugu "Saccra" (cakra) used to ward off >>> disease and spirits of possession" should be correct. >>> >>> Using yantras in the installation (prat??h? ) in a temple is a >>> usual practice. But this one does not seem to be of that kind. >>> >>> On Tue, Oct 11, 2016 at 8:40 PM, wrote: >>> >>> Dear list, >>>> >>>> Bornholms Museum, located on the eponymous rock island in the Baltic >>>> Sea, asked me for clarification about the attached object. According >>>> to the registration notes, which probably date back about a hundred >>>> years, it is a Telugu "Saccra" (cakra) used to ward off disease and >>>> spirits of possession. It is also stated that cakras are generally >>>> installed below temple deities to empower the deity and attract >>>> people to the temple. >>>> >>>> If anybody knows the specific name of the cakra and any other >>>> details of its application, I would be happy to convey the >>>> information to the museum. I would also be interested to know what >>>> the distinction between a cakra and a yantra is in this context, and >>>> whether the installation of cakras/yantras to empower deities, >>>> attract people, or otherwise is indeed a general practice in Indian >>>> temples. >>>> >>>> Kind regards, >>>> Jacob >>>> >>>> Jacob Schmidt-Madsen >>>> PhD Fellow (Indology) >>>> Department of Cross-Cultural and Regional Studies >>>> University of Copenhagen >>>> Denmark >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> INDOLOGY mailing list >>>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info >>>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing >>>> committee) >>>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list >>>> options or unsubscribe) >>>> >>> >>> -- >>> >>> Nagaraj Paturi >>> >>> Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA. >>> >>> Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies >>> >>> FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of Liberal Education, >>> >>> (Pune, Maharashtra, INDIA ) >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> INDOLOGY mailing list >> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info >> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing >> committee) >> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or >> unsubscribe) >> > > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing > committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or > unsubscribe) > -- Nagaraj Paturi Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA. Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of Liberal Education, (Pune, Maharashtra, INDIA ) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From d.wujastyk at gmail.com Wed Oct 12 08:10:49 2016 From: d.wujastyk at gmail.com (Dagmar Wujastyk) Date: Wed, 12 Oct 16 10:10:49 +0200 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Kalapattana, black men, and some medical terms In-Reply-To: <0d8bf29f-98ba-7788-0b59-49e055c10f44@pbhome.se> Message-ID: Dear Martin, Regarding *v?nti* and *chardi*:* v?nti* seems to only be used in later medical texts, ??r?gadharasa?hit? (13th/14th century) onwards, and is also found in iatrochemical (alchemical) texts. In the ??r?gadharasa?hit?, it occurs in the context of a metallic preparation, which, if prepared according to rule, will not produce* v?nti*. So, here the difference is between vomiting as a reaction to poisoning and vomiting as a disease category (chardi is used in the latter sense in the ??r?gadharasa?hit?). My impression (this was a very quick look) is that* v?nti *and* chardi* otherwise are interchangeable. Re k?sapitt?tis?ra: it should divide into k?sa (cough - there are different kinds of k?sa, it's a category of disease) and pitt?tis?ra, flux caused by pitta (one of three humoral substances, or do?as). Pitt?tis?ra already occurs in the A????gah?dayasa?hit?. Then, it should be pittak?mal?, k?mal? (something like jaundice) caused by pitta. Very best, Dagmar On 11 October 2016 at 16:14, Martin Gansten wrote: > The *H?yanasundara*, a seemingly fairly late astrological text (quoted by > Balabhadra in the early 17th century) in simple, inelegant Sanskrit, > contains some phrases that I am not quite sure about. First, in a > description of the joint results of the sun and moon, there are the > following stanzas: > > var?asv?m? yad? s?ryas [...] yadi candramas? yuta? [...] > ?vetakray??ak?l l?bho vi?e??t kalapattan? | (some MSS read kalapattanam) > ?ayan??anavastr?di mi???nnasv?dubhojanam || > saudhotsa?gasthito g?tan?tyalolupam?nasa? | > str?vatsala? sugandh??hyo r?trau sukhitacetasa? || > > I don't know what to make of kalapattana/-?: is it the name of a place > (reading -?t), as the second member suggests, and if so, where? Or does it > refer to a type of merchandise, or to something else entirely? > > Second, the description of the joint results of the sun and Venus lists a > number of medical conditions. The underlined phrases are particularly > problematic: > > ravir atha sitad???a? sa?yuto v? jvar?rtir bhavati ?irasi p??? *chardir* > apy eti *v?ntim* | > bhavati ja?hara??la? *k?sapitt?tis?rai* ripubhayam atha cint? sth?nato > bhra??am eti || > yad?gneyadi?o l?bha? *pittak?maladadrut??* | > gala? ?u?yati ?ukre?a ravir d???o yuto yadi || > > What might the difference be between chardi and v?nti, both of which seem > generally to mean 'vomiting' but are apparently differentiated here? And > how are the compounded names of medical conditions best understood? > > Finally, the text refers repeatedly to 'black men' (asita-m?nava, > k???a-manuja). I have never seen these or similar terms used of > dark-skinned Indians. Does it seem reasonable to assume that they are used > here to refer to people of African origin, and if so, what (if anything) > does that tell us of the likely date and place of the text? > > I should be grateful for any comments or suggestions. > > Martin Gansten > > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing > committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or > unsubscribe) > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From nagarajpaturi at gmail.com Wed Oct 12 09:17:57 2016 From: nagarajpaturi at gmail.com (Nagaraj Paturi) Date: Wed, 12 Oct 16 14:47:57 +0530 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Information sought regarding Telugu "Saccra" (cakra) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Dear Patrick, There are books called Bija (Beeja) Nighantus or Bijakshara Nighantus Maatrikaa Nighantus etc. which provide such 'meanings' for all the 'letters' of the Sanskrit VaarNa maala. Sample discussion may be found here On Wed, Oct 12, 2016 at 5:52 AM, patrick mccartney wrote: > Speaking of chakras and letters, on pp 705-707 of Grierson's article on > the Sharada script https://archive.org/details/244194891OnTheSharadaAlph > abetJournalOfTheRoyalAsiaticSociety171916SirGeorgeGriersonKCIEMRAS > is an explanation of the metaphysics of the alphabet. Unfortunately, there > is only a discussion of the vowels and not the consonants, etc. It seems > that the file on archive is not complete. Even though the title page says > the last page is 708, it does seem to have an abrupt ending. > > > But > > On p 705 the following book is mentioned http://www.worldcat. > org/title/shiva-sutra-vimarsini-of-ksemaraja/oclc/21777974 - I'm guessing > this is the possible source for Grierson's discussion on the alphabet. > Unfortunately, the closest copy to me is about 5000 miles away. Archive.org > has two other books by the author, Iyengar, but not this one. > https://archive.org/search.php?query=creator%3A%22Srini > vasa+Iyengar%2C+P.+T.%2C+1863-1931%22 > > Might you have a .pdf copy of this book? > The Shiva-sutra-vimarsini? of Ksemaraja (1912) by Iyengar > > > I'd appreciate it if anyone might be able to help me find similar > discussions/information on the rest of the alphabet? If they are mentioned > in Ksemaraja's work, does anyone know exactly where? I had a quick look in > the ?aktop?ya section. > > > All the best, > > Patrick McCartney, PhD > Fellow > School of Culture, History & Language > College of the Asia-Pacific > The Australian National University > Canberra, Australia, 0200 > > > Skype - psdmccartney > Phone + Whatsapp: +61 414 954 748 > Twitter - @psdmccartney > > > academia > > - > > Linkedin > > > Edanz > > #yogabodyANU2016 symposium > > > Ep1 - Imagining Sanskrit Land > > Ep 2 - Total-am > > Ep 3 - Jalam ? Chillum > > Ep 4 - It's Time to get Married > > > A Day in our Ashram > > > Stop animation short film of Shakuntala > > > Forced to Clean Human Waste > > One of my favourite song > s > > > > > > On Wed, Oct 12, 2016 at 7:26 AM, wrote: > >> Dear Nagaraj, >> >> Many thanks for your reading of the yantra, and for the confirmation that >> it is indeed a yantra (though I would still be curious to know if cakra is >> sometimes used with the same meaning). I am sure the museum will be most >> appreciate of the information. >> >> Also thanks to Arlo Griffiths for the references. A. A. ?l?czka's >> original doctoral thesis can be downloaded from Leiden University here: >> >> https://openaccess.leidenuniv.nl/bitstream/handle/1887/4581/ >> total%20document.pdf?sequence=17 >> >> Best wishes, >> Jacob >> >> >> Nagaraj Paturi skrev den 2016-10-11 22:04: >> >>> Dear Jacob, >>> >>> It is a Yantra. It has the word yantra inscribed on it. >>> >>> It has : >>> >>> ?????????? ???????(sic) >>> ?????????? ????? ?? ?? >>> ?????? ?????????? >>> >>> (ya?trar?j?ya vidmahi mah?ya?tr?ya dh?mahi ?a? n? >>> ya?tra? prac?day?t ) >>> >>> ??????? ??????????????? >>> ???? ?????? .... ?????? >>> >>> (asmin t??braya?trasukha? cira? kartu? .... sv?h? ) >>> >>> ??? ?????? ??????? (sic) ??? >>> ?????? ????? >>> >>> (h?? jval?ya vidmahi (sic) mah? ??lin? dh?mahi ) >>> >>> There is a mention of a deity called pratikriy???lin in the >>> yantra. >>> >>> This may indicate that the yantra is meant to counter the action of >>> another supernatural power. >>> >>> If this guess is correct, it is usually not the kind used in the >>> prat??h? in a temple. >>> >>> The interpretation " it is a Telugu "Saccra" (cakra) used to ward off >>> disease and spirits of possession" should be correct. >>> >>> Using yantras in the installation (prat??h? ) in a temple is a >>> usual practice. But this one does not seem to be of that kind. >>> >>> On Tue, Oct 11, 2016 at 8:40 PM, wrote: >>> >>> Dear list, >>>> >>>> Bornholms Museum, located on the eponymous rock island in the Baltic >>>> Sea, asked me for clarification about the attached object. According >>>> to the registration notes, which probably date back about a hundred >>>> years, it is a Telugu "Saccra" (cakra) used to ward off disease and >>>> spirits of possession. It is also stated that cakras are generally >>>> installed below temple deities to empower the deity and attract >>>> people to the temple. >>>> >>>> If anybody knows the specific name of the cakra and any other >>>> details of its application, I would be happy to convey the >>>> information to the museum. I would also be interested to know what >>>> the distinction between a cakra and a yantra is in this context, and >>>> whether the installation of cakras/yantras to empower deities, >>>> attract people, or otherwise is indeed a general practice in Indian >>>> temples. >>>> >>>> Kind regards, >>>> Jacob >>>> >>>> Jacob Schmidt-Madsen >>>> PhD Fellow (Indology) >>>> Department of Cross-Cultural and Regional Studies >>>> University of Copenhagen >>>> Denmark >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> INDOLOGY mailing list >>>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info >>>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing >>>> committee) >>>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list >>>> options or unsubscribe) >>>> >>> >>> -- >>> >>> Nagaraj Paturi >>> >>> Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA. >>> >>> Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies >>> >>> FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of Liberal Education, >>> >>> (Pune, Maharashtra, INDIA ) >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> INDOLOGY mailing list >> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info >> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing >> committee) >> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or >> unsubscribe) >> > > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing > committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or > unsubscribe) > -- Nagaraj Paturi Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA. Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of Liberal Education, (Pune, Maharashtra, INDIA ) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From psdmccartney at gmail.com Wed Oct 12 09:29:17 2016 From: psdmccartney at gmail.com (patrick mccartney) Date: Wed, 12 Oct 16 19:59:17 +1030 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Information sought regarding Telugu "Saccra" (cakra) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Once again Nataraj, thank you for helping me out. On 12 Oct 2016 7:48 PM, "Nagaraj Paturi" wrote: > Dear Patrick, > > There are books called Bija (Beeja) Nighantus or Bijakshara Nighantus > Maatrikaa Nighantus etc. which provide such 'meanings' for all the > 'letters' of the Sanskrit VaarNa maala. > > Sample discussion may be found here > > > On Wed, Oct 12, 2016 at 5:52 AM, patrick mccartney > wrote: > >> Speaking of chakras and letters, on pp 705-707 of Grierson's article on >> the Sharada script https://archive.org/details/244194891OnTheSharadaAlph >> abetJournalOfTheRoyalAsiaticSociety171916SirGeorgeGriersonKCIEMRAS >> is an explanation of the metaphysics of the alphabet. Unfortunately, >> there is only a discussion of the vowels and not the consonants, etc. It >> seems that the file on archive is not complete. Even though the title page >> says the last page is 708, it does seem to have an abrupt ending. >> >> >> But >> >> On p 705 the following book is mentioned http://www.worldcat. >> org/title/shiva-sutra-vimarsini-of-ksemaraja/oclc/21777974 - I'm >> guessing this is the possible source for Grierson's discussion on the >> alphabet. Unfortunately, the closest copy to me is about 5000 miles away. >> Archive.org has two other books by the author, Iyengar, but not this one. >> https://archive.org/search.php?query=creator%3A%22Srini >> vasa+Iyengar%2C+P.+T.%2C+1863-1931%22 >> >> Might you have a .pdf copy of this book? >> The Shiva-sutra-vimarsini? of Ksemaraja (1912) by Iyengar >> >> >> I'd appreciate it if anyone might be able to help me find similar >> discussions/information on the rest of the alphabet? If they are mentioned >> in Ksemaraja's work, does anyone know exactly where? I had a quick look in >> the ?aktop?ya section. >> >> >> All the best, >> >> Patrick McCartney, PhD >> Fellow >> School of Culture, History & Language >> College of the Asia-Pacific >> The Australian National University >> Canberra, Australia, 0200 >> >> >> Skype - psdmccartney >> Phone + Whatsapp: +61 414 954 748 >> Twitter - @psdmccartney >> >> >> academia >> >> - >> >> Linkedin >> >> >> Edanz >> >> >> #yogabodyANU2016 symposium >> >> >> Ep1 - Imagining Sanskrit Land >> >> Ep 2 - Total-am >> >> Ep 3 - Jalam ? Chillum >> >> Ep 4 - It's Time to get Married >> >> >> A Day in our Ashram >> >> >> Stop animation short film of Shakuntala >> >> >> Forced to Clean Human Waste >> >> One of my favourite song >> s >> >> >> >> >> >> On Wed, Oct 12, 2016 at 7:26 AM, wrote: >> >>> Dear Nagaraj, >>> >>> Many thanks for your reading of the yantra, and for the confirmation >>> that it is indeed a yantra (though I would still be curious to know if >>> cakra is sometimes used with the same meaning). I am sure the museum will >>> be most appreciate of the information. >>> >>> Also thanks to Arlo Griffiths for the references. A. A. ?l?czka's >>> original doctoral thesis can be downloaded from Leiden University here: >>> >>> https://openaccess.leidenuniv.nl/bitstream/handle/1887/4581/ >>> total%20document.pdf?sequence=17 >>> >>> Best wishes, >>> Jacob >>> >>> >>> Nagaraj Paturi skrev den 2016-10-11 22:04: >>> >>>> Dear Jacob, >>>> >>>> It is a Yantra. It has the word yantra inscribed on it. >>>> >>>> It has : >>>> >>>> ?????????? ???????(sic) >>>> ?????????? ????? ?? ?? >>>> ?????? ?????????? >>>> >>>> (ya?trar?j?ya vidmahi mah?ya?tr?ya dh?mahi ?a? n? >>>> ya?tra? prac?day?t ) >>>> >>>> ??????? ??????????????? >>>> ???? ?????? .... ?????? >>>> >>>> (asmin t??braya?trasukha? cira? kartu? .... sv?h? ) >>>> >>>> ??? ?????? ??????? (sic) ??? >>>> ?????? ????? >>>> >>>> (h?? jval?ya vidmahi (sic) mah? ??lin? dh?mahi ) >>>> >>>> There is a mention of a deity called pratikriy???lin in the >>>> yantra. >>>> >>>> This may indicate that the yantra is meant to counter the action of >>>> another supernatural power. >>>> >>>> If this guess is correct, it is usually not the kind used in the >>>> prat??h? in a temple. >>>> >>>> The interpretation " it is a Telugu "Saccra" (cakra) used to ward off >>>> disease and spirits of possession" should be correct. >>>> >>>> Using yantras in the installation (prat??h? ) in a temple is a >>>> usual practice. But this one does not seem to be of that kind. >>>> >>>> On Tue, Oct 11, 2016 at 8:40 PM, wrote: >>>> >>>> Dear list, >>>>> >>>>> Bornholms Museum, located on the eponymous rock island in the Baltic >>>>> Sea, asked me for clarification about the attached object. According >>>>> to the registration notes, which probably date back about a hundred >>>>> years, it is a Telugu "Saccra" (cakra) used to ward off disease and >>>>> spirits of possession. It is also stated that cakras are generally >>>>> installed below temple deities to empower the deity and attract >>>>> people to the temple. >>>>> >>>>> If anybody knows the specific name of the cakra and any other >>>>> details of its application, I would be happy to convey the >>>>> information to the museum. I would also be interested to know what >>>>> the distinction between a cakra and a yantra is in this context, and >>>>> whether the installation of cakras/yantras to empower deities, >>>>> attract people, or otherwise is indeed a general practice in Indian >>>>> temples. >>>>> >>>>> Kind regards, >>>>> Jacob >>>>> >>>>> Jacob Schmidt-Madsen >>>>> PhD Fellow (Indology) >>>>> Department of Cross-Cultural and Regional Studies >>>>> University of Copenhagen >>>>> Denmark >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> INDOLOGY mailing list >>>>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info >>>>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing >>>>> committee) >>>>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list >>>>> options or unsubscribe) >>>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> >>>> Nagaraj Paturi >>>> >>>> Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA. >>>> >>>> Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies >>>> >>>> FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of Liberal Education, >>>> >>>> (Pune, Maharashtra, INDIA ) >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> INDOLOGY mailing list >>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info >>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing >>> committee) >>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options >>> or unsubscribe) >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> INDOLOGY mailing list >> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info >> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing >> committee) >> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or >> unsubscribe) >> > > > > -- > Nagaraj Paturi > > Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA. > > Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies > > FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of Liberal Education, > > (Pune, Maharashtra, INDIA ) > > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From nagarajpaturi at gmail.com Wed Oct 12 09:36:36 2016 From: nagarajpaturi at gmail.com (Nagaraj Paturi) Date: Wed, 12 Oct 16 15:06:36 +0530 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Information sought regarding Telugu "Saccra" (cakra) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Patrick, I know you wanted to thank me, not Nataraj. You are welcome. On Wed, Oct 12, 2016 at 2:59 PM, patrick mccartney wrote: > Once again Nataraj, thank you for helping me out. > > On 12 Oct 2016 7:48 PM, "Nagaraj Paturi" wrote: > >> Dear Patrick, >> >> There are books called Bija (Beeja) Nighantus or Bijakshara Nighantus >> Maatrikaa Nighantus etc. which provide such 'meanings' for all the >> 'letters' of the Sanskrit VaarNa maala. >> >> Sample discussion may be found here >> >> >> On Wed, Oct 12, 2016 at 5:52 AM, patrick mccartney < >> psdmccartney at gmail.com> wrote: >> >>> Speaking of chakras and letters, on pp 705-707 of Grierson's article on >>> the Sharada script https://archive.org/details/244194891OnTheSharadaAlph >>> abetJournalOfTheRoyalAsiaticSociety171916SirGeorgeGriersonKCIEMRAS >>> is an explanation of the metaphysics of the alphabet. Unfortunately, >>> there is only a discussion of the vowels and not the consonants, etc. It >>> seems that the file on archive is not complete. Even though the title page >>> says the last page is 708, it does seem to have an abrupt ending. >>> >>> >>> But >>> >>> On p 705 the following book is mentioned http://www.worldcat. >>> org/title/shiva-sutra-vimarsini-of-ksemaraja/oclc/21777974 - I'm >>> guessing this is the possible source for Grierson's discussion on the >>> alphabet. Unfortunately, the closest copy to me is about 5000 miles away. >>> Archive.org has two other books by the author, Iyengar, but not this one. >>> https://archive.org/search.php?query=creator%3A%22Srini >>> vasa+Iyengar%2C+P.+T.%2C+1863-1931%22 >>> >>> Might you have a .pdf copy of this book? >>> The Shiva-sutra-vimarsini? of Ksemaraja (1912) by Iyengar >>> >>> >>> I'd appreciate it if anyone might be able to help me find similar >>> discussions/information on the rest of the alphabet? If they are mentioned >>> in Ksemaraja's work, does anyone know exactly where? I had a quick look in >>> the ?aktop?ya section. >>> >>> >>> All the best, >>> >>> Patrick McCartney, PhD >>> Fellow >>> School of Culture, History & Language >>> College of the Asia-Pacific >>> The Australian National University >>> Canberra, Australia, 0200 >>> >>> >>> Skype - psdmccartney >>> Phone + Whatsapp: +61 414 954 748 >>> Twitter - @psdmccartney >>> >>> >>> academia >>> >>> - >>> >>> Linkedin >>> >>> >>> Edanz >>> >>> >>> #yogabodyANU2016 symposium >>> >>> >>> >>> Ep1 - Imagining Sanskrit Land >>> >>> Ep 2 - Total-am >>> >>> Ep 3 - Jalam ? Chillum >>> >>> Ep 4 - It's Time to get Married >>> >>> >>> A Day in our Ashram >>> >>> >>> Stop animation short film of Shakuntala >>> >>> >>> Forced to Clean Human Waste >>> >>> One of my favourite song >>> s >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> On Wed, Oct 12, 2016 at 7:26 AM, wrote: >>> >>>> Dear Nagaraj, >>>> >>>> Many thanks for your reading of the yantra, and for the confirmation >>>> that it is indeed a yantra (though I would still be curious to know if >>>> cakra is sometimes used with the same meaning). I am sure the museum will >>>> be most appreciate of the information. >>>> >>>> Also thanks to Arlo Griffiths for the references. A. A. ?l?czka's >>>> original doctoral thesis can be downloaded from Leiden University here: >>>> >>>> https://openaccess.leidenuniv.nl/bitstream/handle/1887/4581/ >>>> total%20document.pdf?sequence=17 >>>> >>>> Best wishes, >>>> Jacob >>>> >>>> >>>> Nagaraj Paturi skrev den 2016-10-11 22:04: >>>> >>>>> Dear Jacob, >>>>> >>>>> It is a Yantra. It has the word yantra inscribed on it. >>>>> >>>>> It has : >>>>> >>>>> ?????????? ???????(sic) >>>>> ?????????? ????? ?? ?? >>>>> ?????? ?????????? >>>>> >>>>> (ya?trar?j?ya vidmahi mah?ya?tr?ya dh?mahi ?a? n? >>>>> ya?tra? prac?day?t ) >>>>> >>>>> ??????? ??????????????? >>>>> ???? ?????? .... ?????? >>>>> >>>>> (asmin t??braya?trasukha? cira? kartu? .... sv?h? ) >>>>> >>>>> ??? ?????? ??????? (sic) ??? >>>>> ?????? ????? >>>>> >>>>> (h?? jval?ya vidmahi (sic) mah? ??lin? dh?mahi ) >>>>> >>>>> There is a mention of a deity called pratikriy???lin in the >>>>> yantra. >>>>> >>>>> This may indicate that the yantra is meant to counter the action of >>>>> another supernatural power. >>>>> >>>>> If this guess is correct, it is usually not the kind used in the >>>>> prat??h? in a temple. >>>>> >>>>> The interpretation " it is a Telugu "Saccra" (cakra) used to ward off >>>>> disease and spirits of possession" should be correct. >>>>> >>>>> Using yantras in the installation (prat??h? ) in a temple is a >>>>> usual practice. But this one does not seem to be of that kind. >>>>> >>>>> On Tue, Oct 11, 2016 at 8:40 PM, wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Dear list, >>>>>> >>>>>> Bornholms Museum, located on the eponymous rock island in the Baltic >>>>>> Sea, asked me for clarification about the attached object. According >>>>>> to the registration notes, which probably date back about a hundred >>>>>> years, it is a Telugu "Saccra" (cakra) used to ward off disease and >>>>>> spirits of possession. It is also stated that cakras are generally >>>>>> installed below temple deities to empower the deity and attract >>>>>> people to the temple. >>>>>> >>>>>> If anybody knows the specific name of the cakra and any other >>>>>> details of its application, I would be happy to convey the >>>>>> information to the museum. I would also be interested to know what >>>>>> the distinction between a cakra and a yantra is in this context, and >>>>>> whether the installation of cakras/yantras to empower deities, >>>>>> attract people, or otherwise is indeed a general practice in Indian >>>>>> temples. >>>>>> >>>>>> Kind regards, >>>>>> Jacob >>>>>> >>>>>> Jacob Schmidt-Madsen >>>>>> PhD Fellow (Indology) >>>>>> Department of Cross-Cultural and Regional Studies >>>>>> University of Copenhagen >>>>>> Denmark >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> INDOLOGY mailing list >>>>>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info >>>>>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing >>>>>> committee) >>>>>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list >>>>>> options or unsubscribe) >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> >>>>> Nagaraj Paturi >>>>> >>>>> Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA. >>>>> >>>>> Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies >>>>> >>>>> FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of Liberal Education, >>>>> >>>>> (Pune, Maharashtra, INDIA ) >>>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> INDOLOGY mailing list >>>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info >>>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing >>>> committee) >>>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options >>>> or unsubscribe) >>>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> INDOLOGY mailing list >>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info >>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing >>> committee) >>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options >>> or unsubscribe) >>> >> >> >> >> -- >> Nagaraj Paturi >> >> Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA. >> >> Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies >> >> FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of Liberal Education, >> >> (Pune, Maharashtra, INDIA ) >> >> >> >> > -- Nagaraj Paturi Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA. Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of Liberal Education, (Pune, Maharashtra, INDIA ) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From nagarajpaturi at gmail.com Wed Oct 12 10:00:47 2016 From: nagarajpaturi at gmail.com (Nagaraj Paturi) Date: Wed, 12 Oct 16 15:30:47 +0530 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Information sought regarding Telugu "Saccra" (cakra) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Dear Jacob, The scribe has a heavy influence of Kannada writing. Sometimes, in Yantras, script mixing is done for encryption purposes. But we see here is a glyph mixing. This may only show the bilingual habits of the scribe. The writing style is Vijayanagara and a little later. Mistakes in the Sanskrit could be scribal errors or may indicate lack of Sanskrit scholarship on the part of the Yantra-making taantrika himself. S'ooli is S'iva. Hence the yantra is focussed on a certain form of S'iva with counteracting power. He is being called Mahaas'oolin here. Is also being addressed as Pratikriyaas'oolin. The ajapaagaayatree soham hamsah is also found. The words used such as yantra sukham chiram kuru etc. indicate a soft, peaceful, benevolent practice behind the yantra. Hope this helps. -- N On Wed, Oct 12, 2016 at 3:06 PM, Nagaraj Paturi wrote: > Patrick, I know you wanted to thank me, not Nataraj. You are welcome. > > On Wed, Oct 12, 2016 at 2:59 PM, patrick mccartney > wrote: > >> Once again Nataraj, thank you for helping me out. >> >> On 12 Oct 2016 7:48 PM, "Nagaraj Paturi" wrote: >> >>> Dear Patrick, >>> >>> There are books called Bija (Beeja) Nighantus or Bijakshara Nighantus >>> Maatrikaa Nighantus etc. which provide such 'meanings' for all the >>> 'letters' of the Sanskrit VaarNa maala. >>> >>> Sample discussion may be found here >>> >>> >>> On Wed, Oct 12, 2016 at 5:52 AM, patrick mccartney < >>> psdmccartney at gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>>> Speaking of chakras and letters, on pp 705-707 of Grierson's article on >>>> the Sharada script https://archive.org/det >>>> ails/244194891OnTheSharadaAlphabetJournalOfTheRoyalAsiaticSo >>>> ciety171916SirGeorgeGriersonKCIEMRAS >>>> is an explanation of the metaphysics of the alphabet. Unfortunately, >>>> there is only a discussion of the vowels and not the consonants, etc. It >>>> seems that the file on archive is not complete. Even though the title page >>>> says the last page is 708, it does seem to have an abrupt ending. >>>> >>>> >>>> But >>>> >>>> On p 705 the following book is mentioned http://www.worldcat. >>>> org/title/shiva-sutra-vimarsini-of-ksemaraja/oclc/21777974 - I'm >>>> guessing this is the possible source for Grierson's discussion on the >>>> alphabet. Unfortunately, the closest copy to me is about 5000 miles away. >>>> Archive.org has two other books by the author, Iyengar, but not this one. >>>> https://archive.org/search.php?query=creator%3A%22Srini >>>> vasa+Iyengar%2C+P.+T.%2C+1863-1931%22 >>>> >>>> Might you have a .pdf copy of this book? >>>> The Shiva-sutra-vimarsini? of Ksemaraja (1912) by Iyengar >>>> >>>> >>>> I'd appreciate it if anyone might be able to help me find similar >>>> discussions/information on the rest of the alphabet? If they are mentioned >>>> in Ksemaraja's work, does anyone know exactly where? I had a quick look in >>>> the ?aktop?ya section. >>>> >>>> >>>> All the best, >>>> >>>> Patrick McCartney, PhD >>>> Fellow >>>> School of Culture, History & Language >>>> College of the Asia-Pacific >>>> The Australian National University >>>> Canberra, Australia, 0200 >>>> >>>> >>>> Skype - psdmccartney >>>> Phone + Whatsapp: +61 414 954 748 >>>> Twitter - @psdmccartney >>>> >>>> >>>> academia >>>> >>>> - >>>> >>>> Linkedin >>>> >>>> >>>> Edanz >>>> >>>> >>>> #yogabodyANU2016 symposium >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Ep1 - Imagining Sanskrit Land >>>> >>>> Ep 2 - Total-am >>>> >>>> Ep 3 - Jalam ? Chillum >>>> >>>> Ep 4 - It's Time to get Married >>>> >>>> >>>> A Day in our Ashram >>>> >>>> >>>> Stop animation short film of Shakuntala >>>> >>>> >>>> Forced to Clean Human Waste >>>> >>>> One of my favourite song >>>> s >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On Wed, Oct 12, 2016 at 7:26 AM, wrote: >>>> >>>>> Dear Nagaraj, >>>>> >>>>> Many thanks for your reading of the yantra, and for the confirmation >>>>> that it is indeed a yantra (though I would still be curious to know if >>>>> cakra is sometimes used with the same meaning). I am sure the museum will >>>>> be most appreciate of the information. >>>>> >>>>> Also thanks to Arlo Griffiths for the references. A. A. ?l?czka's >>>>> original doctoral thesis can be downloaded from Leiden University here: >>>>> >>>>> https://openaccess.leidenuniv.nl/bitstream/handle/1887/4581/ >>>>> total%20document.pdf?sequence=17 >>>>> >>>>> Best wishes, >>>>> Jacob >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Nagaraj Paturi skrev den 2016-10-11 22:04: >>>>> >>>>>> Dear Jacob, >>>>>> >>>>>> It is a Yantra. It has the word yantra inscribed on it. >>>>>> >>>>>> It has : >>>>>> >>>>>> ?????????? ???????(sic) >>>>>> ?????????? ????? ?? ?? >>>>>> ?????? ?????????? >>>>>> >>>>>> (ya?trar?j?ya vidmahi mah?ya?tr?ya dh?mahi ?a? n? >>>>>> ya?tra? prac?day?t ) >>>>>> >>>>>> ??????? ??????????????? >>>>>> ???? ?????? .... ?????? >>>>>> >>>>>> (asmin t??braya?trasukha? cira? kartu? .... sv?h? ) >>>>>> >>>>>> ??? ?????? ??????? (sic) ??? >>>>>> ?????? ????? >>>>>> >>>>>> (h?? jval?ya vidmahi (sic) mah? ??lin? dh?mahi ) >>>>>> >>>>>> There is a mention of a deity called pratikriy???lin in the >>>>>> yantra. >>>>>> >>>>>> This may indicate that the yantra is meant to counter the action of >>>>>> another supernatural power. >>>>>> >>>>>> If this guess is correct, it is usually not the kind used in the >>>>>> prat??h? in a temple. >>>>>> >>>>>> The interpretation " it is a Telugu "Saccra" (cakra) used to ward off >>>>>> disease and spirits of possession" should be correct. >>>>>> >>>>>> Using yantras in the installation (prat??h? ) in a temple is a >>>>>> usual practice. But this one does not seem to be of that kind. >>>>>> >>>>>> On Tue, Oct 11, 2016 at 8:40 PM, wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> Dear list, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Bornholms Museum, located on the eponymous rock island in the Baltic >>>>>>> Sea, asked me for clarification about the attached object. According >>>>>>> to the registration notes, which probably date back about a hundred >>>>>>> years, it is a Telugu "Saccra" (cakra) used to ward off disease and >>>>>>> spirits of possession. It is also stated that cakras are generally >>>>>>> installed below temple deities to empower the deity and attract >>>>>>> people to the temple. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> If anybody knows the specific name of the cakra and any other >>>>>>> details of its application, I would be happy to convey the >>>>>>> information to the museum. I would also be interested to know what >>>>>>> the distinction between a cakra and a yantra is in this context, and >>>>>>> whether the installation of cakras/yantras to empower deities, >>>>>>> attract people, or otherwise is indeed a general practice in Indian >>>>>>> temples. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Kind regards, >>>>>>> Jacob >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Jacob Schmidt-Madsen >>>>>>> PhD Fellow (Indology) >>>>>>> Department of Cross-Cultural and Regional Studies >>>>>>> University of Copenhagen >>>>>>> Denmark >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> INDOLOGY mailing list >>>>>>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info >>>>>>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing >>>>>>> committee) >>>>>>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list >>>>>>> options or unsubscribe) >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> >>>>>> Nagaraj Paturi >>>>>> >>>>>> Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA. >>>>>> >>>>>> Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies >>>>>> >>>>>> FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of Liberal Education, >>>>>> >>>>>> (Pune, Maharashtra, INDIA ) >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> INDOLOGY mailing list >>>>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info >>>>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing >>>>> committee) >>>>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options >>>>> or unsubscribe) >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> INDOLOGY mailing list >>>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info >>>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing >>>> committee) >>>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options >>>> or unsubscribe) >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Nagaraj Paturi >>> >>> Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA. >>> >>> Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies >>> >>> FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of Liberal Education, >>> >>> (Pune, Maharashtra, INDIA ) >>> >>> >>> >>> >> > > > -- > Nagaraj Paturi > > Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA. > > Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies > > FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of Liberal Education, > > (Pune, Maharashtra, INDIA ) > > > > -- Nagaraj Paturi Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA. Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of Liberal Education, (Pune, Maharashtra, INDIA ) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jpo at austin.utexas.edu Wed Oct 12 14:50:30 2016 From: jpo at austin.utexas.edu (Olivelle, J P) Date: Wed, 12 Oct 16 14:50:30 +0000 Subject: [INDOLOGY] New Book Message-ID: Delighted to inform you all about my new book in the Sheldon Pollock?s series through Columbia University Press: Historical Sourcebooks in Classical Indian Thought. ?A Dharma Reader: Classical Indian Law? https://cup.columbia.edu/book/a-dharma-reader/9780231179560 At Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/Dharma-Reader-Classical-Historical-Sourcebooks/dp/0231179561/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1476283701&sr=8-1&keywords=Dharma+Reader Part One deals with the epistemology of dharma/law, and Part Two deals with legal procedure (vyavah?ra0. Sorry for the high price!! Not responsible. Best, Patrick -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From wujastyk at gmail.com Wed Oct 12 15:16:33 2016 From: wujastyk at gmail.com (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Wed, 12 Oct 16 09:16:33 -0600 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Kalapattana, black men, and some medical terms In-Reply-To: Message-ID: In the chapter of the medical *??r?gadharasa?hit?* about prognostication from dreams (?ubh??ubhasvapnapar?k??), dreams about black people are mentioned. atha ?ubh??ubhasvapnapar?k?? tatra du?svapnalak?a??ni svapne?u nagn?nmu?????ca raktak????mbar?v?t?n vya?g???ca vik?t?n*k????n*sap???ns?yudh?napi badhnato nighnata?c?pi dak?i??? di?am??rit?n mahi?o??rakhar?r??h?nstr?pu?so yastu pa?yati sa svastho labhate vy?dhi? rog? y?tyeva pa?cat?m 16 If a healthy person sees any of the following kinds of men or women in a dream, then he will become sick, and if already sick, he will pass away: naked people, bald people, people dressed in red and black clothes, cripples, misshapen people, blacks, people with snares or weapons, people tying up or murdering others, people located in a southerly direction, or riding buffaloes, camels, or donkeys. -- Professor Dominik Wujastyk* Singhmar Chair in Classical Indian Society and Polity Department of History and Classics University of Alberta, Canada ?sas.ualberta.ca? On 12 October 2016 at 02:10, Dagmar Wujastyk wrote: > Dear Martin, > > Regarding *v?nti* and *chardi*:* v?nti* seems to only be used in later > medical texts, ??r?gadharasa?hit? (13th/14th century) onwards, and is also > found in iatrochemical (alchemical) texts. In the ??r?gadharasa?hit?, it > occurs in the context of a metallic preparation, which, if prepared > according to rule, will not produce* v?nti*. So, here the difference is > between vomiting as a reaction to poisoning and vomiting as a disease > category (chardi is used in the latter sense in the ??r?gadharasa?hit?). My > impression (this was a very quick look) is that* v?nti *and* chardi* > otherwise are interchangeable. > > Re k?sapitt?tis?ra: it should divide into k?sa (cough - there are > different kinds of k?sa, it's a category of disease) and pitt?tis?ra, flux > caused by pitta (one of three humoral substances, or do?as). Pitt?tis?ra > already occurs in the A????gah?dayasa?hit?. > Then, it should be pittak?mal?, k?mal? (something like jaundice) caused by > pitta. > > Very best, > Dagmar > > > > On 11 October 2016 at 16:14, Martin Gansten > wrote: > >> The *H?yanasundara*, a seemingly fairly late astrological text (quoted >> by Balabhadra in the early 17th century) in simple, inelegant Sanskrit, >> contains some phrases that I am not quite sure about. First, in a >> description of the joint results of the sun and moon, there are the >> following stanzas: >> >> var?asv?m? yad? s?ryas [...] yadi candramas? yuta? [...] >> ?vetakray??ak?l l?bho vi?e??t kalapattan? | (some MSS read kalapattanam) >> ?ayan??anavastr?di mi???nnasv?dubhojanam || >> saudhotsa?gasthito g?tan?tyalolupam?nasa? | >> str?vatsala? sugandh??hyo r?trau sukhitacetasa? || >> >> I don't know what to make of kalapattana/-?: is it the name of a place >> (reading -?t), as the second member suggests, and if so, where? Or does it >> refer to a type of merchandise, or to something else entirely? >> >> Second, the description of the joint results of the sun and Venus lists a >> number of medical conditions. The underlined phrases are particularly >> problematic: >> >> ravir atha sitad???a? sa?yuto v? jvar?rtir bhavati ?irasi p??? *chardir* >> apy eti *v?ntim* | >> bhavati ja?hara??la? *k?sapitt?tis?rai* ripubhayam atha cint? sth?nato >> bhra??am eti || >> yad?gneyadi?o l?bha? *pittak?maladadrut??* | >> gala? ?u?yati ?ukre?a ravir d???o yuto yadi || >> >> What might the difference be between chardi and v?nti, both of which seem >> generally to mean 'vomiting' but are apparently differentiated here? And >> how are the compounded names of medical conditions best understood? >> >> Finally, the text refers repeatedly to 'black men' (asita-m?nava, >> k???a-manuja). I have never seen these or similar terms used of >> dark-skinned Indians. Does it seem reasonable to assume that they are used >> here to refer to people of African origin, and if so, what (if anything) >> does that tell us of the likely date and place of the text? >> >> I should be grateful for any comments or suggestions. >> >> Martin Gansten >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> INDOLOGY mailing list >> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info >> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing >> committee) >> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or >> unsubscribe) >> > > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing > committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or > unsubscribe) > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From witzel at fas.harvard.edu Thu Oct 13 01:31:54 2016 From: witzel at fas.harvard.edu (Witzel, Michael) Date: Thu, 13 Oct 16 01:31:54 +0000 Subject: [INDOLOGY] EJVS new issue: Ten Kings' Battle in Rgveda Message-ID: <1C616677-3B3D-4BF7-9735-4E4510C20124@fas.harvard.edu> Dear All, at our new server at Cross-Asia (Heidelberg), we have just now published the next issue of EJVS vol.23, no. 1: Rainer Stuhrmann, Die Zehnk?nigsschlacht am Raviflu? Detailed abstract in English; text in German. http://crossasia-journals.ub.uni-heidelberg.de/index.php/ejvs/article/view/933 http://crossasia-journals.ub.uni-heidelberg.de/index.php/ejvs/issue/view/124/showToc Best wishes, M. WItzel -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From paoloe.rosati at gmail.com Thu Oct 13 08:59:05 2016 From: paoloe.rosati at gmail.com (Paolo Eugenio Rosati) Date: Thu, 13 Oct 16 10:59:05 +0200 Subject: [INDOLOGY] PDF request: Myth and Mythmaking: Continuous Evolution in Indian Tradition. Message-ID: Dear Indologists, I'm looking for a pdf copy of Julia Leslie (ed.). 1996. *Myth and Mythmaking: Continuous Evolution in Indian Tradition*. New York: Routledge. I'd like to read all the book, but I'm particularly interested in chapter 5 "menstruation myths". Best, Paolo -- Paolo E. Rosati Oriental Archaeologist PhD candidate in "Civilizations of Asia and Africa" South Asia Section Dep. Italian Institute of Oriental Studies/ISO 'Sapienza' University of Rome *https://uniroma1.academia.edu/PaoloRosati/ * paoloe.rosati at uniroma1.it paoloe.rosati at gmail.com Skype: paoloe.rosati Mobile: (+39) 338 73 83 472 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From martin.gansten at pbhome.se Thu Oct 13 09:49:50 2016 From: martin.gansten at pbhome.se (Martin Gansten) Date: Thu, 13 Oct 16 11:49:50 +0200 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Kalapattana, black men, and some medical terms In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3dc7fbe7-0a95-c42e-2e80-db7aa8cf50cc@pbhome.se> Many thanks to Dagmar and Dominik Wujastyk for their replies so far. The reference to /k????n ... str?pu?so/ in the ??r?gadharasa?hit? is interesting. Perhaps I read too much into the expressions /asita-m?nava/ and /k???a-manuja/ in the H?yanasundara. > So, here the difference is between vomiting as a reaction to poisoning > and vomiting as a disease category (chardi is used in the latter sense > in the ??r?gadharasa?hit?). My impression (this was a very quick look) > is that/v?nti /and/chardi/ otherwise are interchangeable. Thank you. I'm still not sure what /bhavati ... chardir apy eti v?ntim/ is meant to convey; I'll have to think about it. Any further suggestions are most welcome. > Re k?sapitt?tis?ra: it should divide into k?sa (cough - there are > different kinds of k?sa, it's a category of disease) and pitt?tis?ra, > flux caused by pitta (one of three humoral substances, or do?as). Is pitt?tis?ra normally found in the plural? And is the condition considered to cause stomach pain? (/Bhavati ja?hara??la? k?sapitt?tis?rai[?]/.) > Then, it should be pittak?mal?, k?mal? (something like jaundice) > caused by pitta. Right. The form used in the text is k?mala (as required by the metre). But I am not sure about dadrut? (leprosy?). If pittak?mala is one condition, and dadrut? another, one would have expected the dual (-te), but the witnesses all read -t? or -t??. On the other hand, the text is often somewhat ungrammatical (but syntactically rather than morphologically). Best wishes, Martin -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From wujastyk at gmail.com Thu Oct 13 12:42:24 2016 From: wujastyk at gmail.com (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Thu, 13 Oct 16 06:42:24 -0600 Subject: [INDOLOGY] crossing oceans? Message-ID: Why is half the religious literature of early India concerned with "crossing the ocean of sa?s?ra," when crossing a real ocean was forbidden for twice-born members of society? Why *that* metaphor in particular? Crossing fords, rivers, etc., makes metaphorical sense, and was allowed. But oceans? -- Professor Dominik Wujastyk* Singhmar Chair in Classical Indian Society and Polity Department of History and Classics University of Alberta, Canada ?sas.ualberta.ca? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mkapstei at uchicago.edu Thu Oct 13 12:51:35 2016 From: mkapstei at uchicago.edu (Matthew Kapstein) Date: Thu, 13 Oct 16 12:51:35 +0000 Subject: [INDOLOGY] crossing oceans? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <82C3E42590D939418C74DD76B97DDED047BCBEE6@xm-mbx-06-prod> Dear Dominik, When does the ban on ocean travel first appear? And when and how did it become the norm? Ocean travel is often mentioned in Buddhist texts (e.g. BaverujAtaka) and the extension of Indian civilization throughout SE Asia during the first millennium required Brahmans to journey as well. The theme of "India and the Sea" perhaps requires further inquiry -- or am I merely ignorant of a great mass of research laying, so to speak, submerged? best, Matthew Matthew Kapstein Directeur d'?tudes, Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes Numata Visiting Professor of Buddhist Studies, The University of Chicago ________________________________ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rolfheiner.koch at gmail.com Thu Oct 13 13:49:49 2016 From: rolfheiner.koch at gmail.com (Rolf Heinrich Koch) Date: Thu, 13 Oct 16 15:49:49 +0200 Subject: [INDOLOGY] crossing oceans? In-Reply-To: <82C3E42590D939418C74DD76B97DDED047BCBEE6@xm-mbx-06-prod> Message-ID: <945f4106-9399-67c1-94aa-5d3a4726a421@gmail.com> I think the origin of that idea is the ahi?s?-precept: Conquering water may kill animals (by accident). I remember while working on my Ph. D. (Edition of Prakrit-manuscripts): For a monk it is forbidden to step across water (e. g. during the rainy season) because he might step into the water and kill small animals. .../a??ay? so s?dh? vivaraya? uttarai. tattha ya p?da-vikkha?bha? p??iya?. te?a p?do pas?rio gai-bhede?a?. tattha ya devay?e chidda? labhi??a? [?ruo] chi??o. so bha?ai: ?micch?-dukka?a? m? ?ukk?e pa?io bhojja?tti. a???e sammaddi??hiy?e di??h?. s? gh?-?iy?. tah?eva sappadeso laio r??ho ya devay?-pabh?ve?a?/...(?va?yaka-c?r?i 514sq.) This idea is also connected with the buddhist precept for monks not to travel during the rain season (vassa). Best Heiner Rolf Heinrich Koch Am 13.10.2016 um 14:51 schrieb Matthew Kapstein: > Dear Dominik, > > When does the ban on ocean travel first appear? And when and how did > it become the norm? > Ocean travel is often mentioned in Buddhist texts (e.g. BaverujAtaka) > and the extension of > Indian civilization throughout SE Asia during the first millennium > required Brahmans to journey > as well. > > The theme of "India and the Sea" perhaps requires further inquiry -- > or am I merely ignorant > of a great mass of research laying, so to speak, submerged? > > best, > Matthew > > Matthew Kapstein > Directeur d'?tudes, > Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes > > Numata Visiting Professor of Buddhist Studies, > The University of Chicago > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) -- www.rolfheinrichkoch.wordpress.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From vjroebuck at btinternet.com Thu Oct 13 14:46:53 2016 From: vjroebuck at btinternet.com (Valerie Roebuck) Date: Thu, 13 Oct 16 15:46:53 +0100 Subject: [INDOLOGY] crossing oceans? In-Reply-To: <945f4106-9399-67c1-94aa-5d3a4726a421@gmail.com> Message-ID: <5E44AA07-AC2E-44D1-A33A-0AA42DE77FF9@btinternet.com> I think these are two different issues, and the prohibition on crossing the ocean is distinct from the practical one for Buddhist monks against walking in the rainy season and stepping on small animals in puddles. The prohibition on ocean travel primarily affected Brahmins, who lost their ritual purity by leaving the sacred land of India where their rites could be carried out. In Buddhist and Jain texts, unlike Hindu ones, sea-going merchants are treated as heroic figures - no doubt in part because the merchant classes were powerful early supporters of these religions. Valerie J Roebuck Manchester, UK > On 13 Oct 2016, at 14:49, Rolf Heinrich Koch wrote: > > I think the origin of that idea is the ahi?s?-precept: Conquering water may kill animals (by accident). > > I remember while working on my Ph. D. (Edition of Prakrit-manuscripts): > For a monk it is forbidden to step across water (e. g. during the rainy season) because he might step into the water and kill small animals. > ...a??ay? so s?dh? vivaraya? uttarai. tattha ya p?da-vikkha?bha? p??iya?. te?a p?do pas?rio gai-bhede?a?. tattha ya devay?e chidda? labhi??a? [?ruo] chi??o. so bha?ai: ?micch?-dukka?a? m? ?ukk?e pa?io bhojja?tti. a???e sammaddi??hiy?e di??h?. s? gh?-?iy?. tah?eva sappadeso laio r??ho ya devay?-pabh?ve?a?...(?va?yaka-c?r?i 514sq.) > > > This idea is also connected with the buddhist precept for monks not to travel during the rain season (vassa). > > Best > > Heiner > > Rolf Heinrich Koch > > Am 13.10.2016 um 14:51 schrieb Matthew Kapstein: >> Dear Dominik, >> >> When does the ban on ocean travel first appear? And when and how did it become the norm? >> Ocean travel is often mentioned in Buddhist texts (e.g. BaverujAtaka) and the extension of >> Indian civilization throughout SE Asia during the first millennium required Brahmans to journey >> as well. >> >> The theme of "India and the Sea" perhaps requires further inquiry -- or am I merely ignorant >> of a great mass of research laying, so to speak, submerged? >> >> best, >> Matthew >> >> Matthew Kapstein >> Directeur d'?tudes, >> Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes >> >> Numata Visiting Professor of Buddhist Studies, >> The University of Chicago >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> INDOLOGY mailing list >> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info >> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) >> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) > > -- > www.rolfheinrichkoch.wordpress.com _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jpo at austin.utexas.edu Thu Oct 13 15:59:28 2016 From: jpo at austin.utexas.edu (Olivelle, J P) Date: Thu, 13 Oct 16 15:59:28 +0000 Subject: [INDOLOGY] crossing oceans? In-Reply-To: <5E44AA07-AC2E-44D1-A33A-0AA42DE77FF9@btinternet.com> Message-ID: <2CE28AAA-8AFC-42D4-AB89-85E7D3B03032@austin.utexas.edu> And the basic question to ask concerning Dominik?s question is: Who says that twice-born people cannot cross oceans? The Dharma??stras who say this, and other working under that ideological pronouncements, represent only one segment even of the Brahmanical tradition. Going by sea is take as normal in Kau?ilya?s Artha??stra, and that is, I think, the first century CE. And, of course, the Buddhist examples and the spread of Sanskrit to SE Asian kingdoms (as Pollock has shown) required Brahmins and others to travel by sea. So, probably we should take the prohibition agains traveling by sea as an ideological statement rather than a historical fact. Patrick On Oct 13, 2016, at 9:46 AM, Valerie Roebuck > wrote: I think these are two different issues, and the prohibition on crossing the ocean is distinct from the practical one for Buddhist monks against walking in the rainy season and stepping on small animals in puddles. The prohibition on ocean travel primarily affected Brahmins, who lost their ritual purity by leaving the sacred land of India where their rites could be carried out. In Buddhist and Jain texts, unlike Hindu ones, sea-going merchants are treated as heroic figures - no doubt in part because the merchant classes were powerful early supporters of these religions. Valerie J Roebuck Manchester, UK On 13 Oct 2016, at 14:49, Rolf Heinrich Koch > wrote: I think the origin of that idea is the ahi?s?-precept: Conquering water may kill animals (by accident). I remember while working on my Ph. D. (Edition of Prakrit-manuscripts): For a monk it is forbidden to step across water (e. g. during the rainy season) because he might step into the water and kill small animals. ...a??ay? so s?dh? vivaraya? uttarai. tattha ya p?da-vikkha?bha? p??iya?. te?a p?do pas?rio gai-bhede?a?. tattha ya devay?e chidda? labhi??a? [?ruo] chi??o. so bha?ai: ?micch?-dukka?a? m? ?ukk?e pa?io bhojja?tti. a???e sammaddi??hiy?e di??h?. s? gh?-?iy?. tah?eva sappadeso laio r??ho ya devay?-pabh?ve?a?...(?va?yaka-c?r?i 514sq.) This idea is also connected with the buddhist precept for monks not to travel during the rain season (vassa). Best Heiner Rolf Heinrich Koch Am 13.10.2016 um 14:51 schrieb Matthew Kapstein: Dear Dominik, When does the ban on ocean travel first appear? And when and how did it become the norm? Ocean travel is often mentioned in Buddhist texts (e.g. BaverujAtaka) and the extension of Indian civilization throughout SE Asia during the first millennium required Brahmans to journey as well. The theme of "India and the Sea" perhaps requires further inquiry -- or am I merely ignorant of a great mass of research laying, so to speak, submerged? best, Matthew Matthew Kapstein Directeur d'?tudes, Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes Numata Visiting Professor of Buddhist Studies, The University of Chicago ________________________________ _______________________________________________ INDOLOGY mailing list INDOLOGY at list.indology.info indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) -- www.rolfheinrichkoch.wordpress.com _______________________________________________ INDOLOGY mailing list INDOLOGY at list.indology.info indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) _______________________________________________ INDOLOGY mailing list INDOLOGY at list.indology.info indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tubb at uchicago.edu Thu Oct 13 16:05:36 2016 From: tubb at uchicago.edu (Gary Tubb) Date: Thu, 13 Oct 16 11:05:36 -0500 Subject: [INDOLOGY] British Library's Endangered Archives Programme Message-ID: <1ED2F658-8CE6-4979-8D84-DB3EB0E66907@uchicago.edu> Posted at the request of Rajeev Kinra: The British Library?s Endangered Archives Programme <> Call for applications <> <> <> <> <>The Endangered Archives Programme at the British Library is now accepting grant applications for the next round of funding. <> Detailed information on the timetable, criteria, eligibility and application procedures is available on the Programme?s website. The deadline for receipt of preliminary grant applications is 4 November 2016. Since it was established twelve years ago, the Programme has so far funded over 300 projects in 80 countries worldwide, with grants totalling over ?7 million. The Programme is funded by Arcadia, in pursuit of one of its charitable aims to preserve endangered cultural heritage. The aim of the Programme is to contribute to the preservation of archival material worldwide that is in danger of destruction, neglect or physical deterioration. The endangered archival material will normally be located in countries where resources and opportunities to preserve such material are lacking or limited. The Programme?s objectives are achieved principally by awarding grants to applicants to locate relevant endangered archival collections, where possible to arrange their transfer to a suitable local archival home, and to deposit digital copies with local institutions and the British Library. The digital collections received by the British Library are made available on the Programme?s website for all to access, with currently over 5 million images and more than 25,000 sound recordings available online. Pilot projects are particularly welcomed, to investigate the survival of archival collections on a particular subject, in a discrete region, or in a specific format, and the feasibility of their recovery. To be considered for funding under the Programme, the archival material should relate to a ?pre-modern' period of a society's history. There is no prescriptive definition of this, but it may typically mean, for instance, any period before industrialisation. The relevant time period will therefore vary according to the society. For the purposes of the Programme, the term ?archival material? is interpreted widely to include rare printed books, newspapers and periodicals, audio and audio-visual materials, photographs and manuscripts. The Programme is keen to enhance local capabilities to manage and preserve archival collections in the future and it is essential that all projects include local archival partners in the country where the project is based. Professional training for local staff is one of the criteria for grant application assessment, whether it is in the area of archival collection management or technical training in digitisation. At the end of the project, equipment funded through the Programme remains with the local archival partner for future use. The Programme is administered by the British Library and applications are considered in an annual competition by an international panel of historians and archivists. This year as well as having a downloadable application on the EAP website, we are also offering an online application form at https://endangeredarchives.wufoo.com/forms/z1nxqhoy0ksrf2j/ For further details of application procedures and documentation as well as EAP projects and collections, please visit the Programme?s website: http://eap.bl.uk/ Web: http://eap.bl.uk/ Email: endangeredarchives at bl.uk -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mailmealakendudas at rediffmail.com Thu Oct 13 16:17:53 2016 From: mailmealakendudas at rediffmail.com (alakendu das) Date: Thu, 13 Oct 16 16:17:53 +0000 Subject: [INDOLOGY] crossing oceans? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <1476362617.S.9740.8520.f4-235-104.1476375473.27292@webmail.rediffmail.com> Dr.Wujastyk, Yes, 'Ocean' has often been used in Ancient Indian texts. The probable reason may be to relate the vastness of our life ,with its myriad of complexities. to the vastness of an ocean. This perhaps is relevant, since the ultimate aim of our life,according to our ancient Indian philosophy ,is to attain enlightenment in life,and thereby bypass all mundane problems ,by way of Realisation of our Self ( i.e.Atmana) . A quote from Shankaracharya's Vivekchuramani- Uddharen Atmanam Atmana Magnau Samsar Baridah . Here the word'Samsar Baridah'implies THIS LIFE-OCEAN depicting the various shades, Crest-nadir,the tumultous multititude of our life-cycle ALAKENDU DAS -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mmdesh at umich.edu Thu Oct 13 16:56:15 2016 From: mmdesh at umich.edu (Madhav Deshpande) Date: Thu, 13 Oct 16 12:56:15 -0400 Subject: [INDOLOGY] crossing oceans? In-Reply-To: <2CE28AAA-8AFC-42D4-AB89-85E7D3B03032@austin.utexas.edu> Message-ID: I have seen two interesting works on this topic, Abdhi-Nauy?na-M?m??s? and Parya?ana-M?m??s?, composed around 1890-1900, that deal with the contemporary issue of Indians traveling to Europe, during colonial times. I have these pdfs, and I would be happy to share them with interested scholars. Madhav Deshpande On Thu, Oct 13, 2016 at 11:59 AM, Olivelle, J P wrote: > And the basic question to ask concerning Dominik?s question is: Who says > that twice-born people cannot cross oceans? The Dharma??stras who say this, > and other working under that ideological pronouncements, represent only one > segment even of the Brahmanical tradition. Going by sea is take as normal > in Kau?ilya?s Artha??stra, and that is, I think, the first century CE. > And, of course, the Buddhist examples and the spread of Sanskrit to SE > Asian kingdoms (as Pollock has shown) required Brahmins and others to > travel by sea. So, probably we should take the prohibition agains traveling > by sea as an ideological statement rather than a historical fact. > > Patrick > > > > On Oct 13, 2016, at 9:46 AM, Valerie Roebuck > wrote: > > I think these are two different issues, and the prohibition on crossing > the ocean is distinct from the practical one for Buddhist monks against > walking in the rainy season and stepping on small animals in puddles. The > prohibition on ocean travel primarily affected Brahmins, who lost their > ritual purity by leaving the sacred land of India where their rites could > be carried out. In Buddhist and Jain texts, unlike Hindu ones, sea-going > merchants are treated as heroic figures - no doubt in part because the > merchant classes were powerful early supporters of these religions. > > Valerie J Roebuck > Manchester, UK > > > On 13 Oct 2016, at 14:49, Rolf Heinrich Koch > wrote: > > I think the origin of that idea is the ahi?s?-precept: Conquering water > may kill animals (by accident). > > I remember while working on my Ph. D. (Edition of Prakrit-manuscripts): > For a monk it is forbidden to step across water (e. g. during the rainy > season) because he might step into the water and kill small animals. > ...*a??ay? so s?dh? vivaraya? uttarai. tattha ya p?da-vikkha?bha? > p??iya?. te?a p?do pas?rio gai-bhede?a?. tattha ya devay?e chidda? > labhi??a? [?ruo] chi??o. so bha?ai: ?micch?-dukka?a? m? ?ukk?e pa?io > bhojja?tti. a???e sammaddi??hiy?e di??h?. s? gh?-?iy?. tah?eva sappadeso > laio r??ho ya devay?-pabh?ve?a?*...(?va?yaka-c?r?i 514sq.) > > > This idea is also connected with the buddhist precept for monks not to > travel during the rain season (vassa). > > Best > > Heiner > > Rolf Heinrich Koch > > Am 13.10.2016 um 14:51 schrieb Matthew Kapstein: > > Dear Dominik, > > When does the ban on ocean travel first appear? And when and how did it > become the norm? > Ocean travel is often mentioned in Buddhist texts (e.g. BaverujAtaka) and > the extension of > Indian civilization throughout SE Asia during the first millennium > required Brahmans to journey > as well. > > The theme of "India and the Sea" perhaps requires further inquiry -- or am > I merely ignorant > of a great mass of research laying, so to speak, submerged? > > best, > Matthew > > Matthew Kapstein > Directeur d'?tudes, > Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes > > Numata Visiting Professor of Buddhist Studies, > The University of Chicago > ------------------------------ > > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing listINDOLOGY at list.indology.infoindology-owner@list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee)http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) > > > -- www.rolfheinrichkoch.wordpress.com > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing > committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or > unsubscribe) > > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing > committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or > unsubscribe) > > > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing > committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or > unsubscribe) > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From sellmers at gmx.de Thu Oct 13 17:05:00 2016 From: sellmers at gmx.de (Sven Sellmer) Date: Thu, 13 Oct 16 19:05:00 +0200 Subject: [INDOLOGY] crossing oceans? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: See also: Arp, Susmita K?l?p?ni : zum Streit ?ber die Zul?ssigkeit von Seereisen im kolonialzeitlichen Indien Stuttgart : Steiner, 2000 Best wishes, Sven Sellmer > Am 13.10.2016 um 18:56 schrieb Madhav Deshpande : > > I have seen two interesting works on this topic, Abdhi-Nauy?na-M?m??s? and Parya?ana-M?m??s?, composed around 1890-1900, that deal with the contemporary issue of Indians traveling to Europe, during colonial times. I have these pdfs, and I would be happy to share them with interested scholars. > > Madhav Deshpande > > On Thu, Oct 13, 2016 at 11:59 AM, Olivelle, J P > wrote: > And the basic question to ask concerning Dominik?s question is: Who says that twice-born people cannot cross oceans? The Dharma??stras who say this, and other working under that ideological pronouncements, represent only one segment even of the Brahmanical tradition. Going by sea is take as normal in Kau?ilya?s Artha??stra, and that is, I think, the first century CE. And, of course, the Buddhist examples and the spread of Sanskrit to SE Asian kingdoms (as Pollock has shown) required Brahmins and others to travel by sea. So, probably we should take the prohibition agains traveling by sea as an ideological statement rather than a historical fact. > > Patrick > > > >> On Oct 13, 2016, at 9:46 AM, Valerie Roebuck > wrote: >> >> I think these are two different issues, and the prohibition on crossing the ocean is distinct from the practical one for Buddhist monks against walking in the rainy season and stepping on small animals in puddles. The prohibition on ocean travel primarily affected Brahmins, who lost their ritual purity by leaving the sacred land of India where their rites could be carried out. In Buddhist and Jain texts, unlike Hindu ones, sea-going merchants are treated as heroic figures - no doubt in part because the merchant classes were powerful early supporters of these religions. >> >> Valerie J Roebuck >> Manchester, UK >> >> >>> On 13 Oct 2016, at 14:49, Rolf Heinrich Koch > wrote: >>> >>> I think the origin of that idea is the ahi?s?-precept: Conquering water may kill animals (by accident). >>> >>> I remember while working on my Ph. D. (Edition of Prakrit-manuscripts): >>> For a monk it is forbidden to step across water (e. g. during the rainy season) because he might step into the water and kill small animals. >>> ...a??ay? so s?dh? vivaraya? uttarai. tattha ya p?da-vikkha?bha? p??iya?. te?a p?do pas?rio gai-bhede?a?. tattha ya devay?e chidda? labhi??a? [?ruo] chi??o. so bha?ai: ?micch?-dukka?a? m? ?ukk?e pa?io bhojja?tti. a???e sammaddi??hiy?e di??h?. s? gh?-?iy?. tah?eva sappadeso laio r??ho ya devay?-pabh?ve?a?...(?va?yaka-c?r?i 514sq.) >>> >>> >>> This idea is also connected with the buddhist precept for monks not to travel during the rain season (vassa). >>> >>> Best >>> >>> Heiner >>> >>> Rolf Heinrich Koch >>> >>> Am 13.10.2016 um 14:51 schrieb Matthew Kapstein: >>>> Dear Dominik, >>>> >>>> When does the ban on ocean travel first appear? And when and how did it become the norm? >>>> Ocean travel is often mentioned in Buddhist texts (e.g. BaverujAtaka) and the extension of >>>> Indian civilization throughout SE Asia during the first millennium required Brahmans to journey >>>> as well. >>>> >>>> The theme of "India and the Sea" perhaps requires further inquiry -- or am I merely ignorant >>>> of a great mass of research laying, so to speak, submerged? >>>> >>>> best, >>>> Matthew >>>> >>>> Matthew Kapstein >>>> Directeur d'?tudes, >>>> Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes >>>> >>>> Numata Visiting Professor of Buddhist Studies, >>>> The University of Chicago >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> INDOLOGY mailing list >>>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info >>>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) >>>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) >>> >>> -- >>> www.rolfheinrichkoch.wordpress.com _______________________________________________ >>> INDOLOGY mailing list >>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info >>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) >>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) >> >> _______________________________________________ >> INDOLOGY mailing list >> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info >> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) >> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) > > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From catherine.clementin-ojha at ehess.fr Thu Oct 13 17:10:10 2016 From: catherine.clementin-ojha at ehess.fr (Clementin Catherine) Date: Thu, 13 Oct 16 19:10:10 +0200 Subject: =?utf-8?Q?[INDOLOGY]_Re=C2=A0:_Re:__crossing_oceans=3F?= In-Reply-To: <1476362617.S.9740.8520.f4-235-104.1476375473.27292@webmail.rediffmail.com> Message-ID: <702313478.3122169.1476378610921.JavaMail.zimbra@ehess.fr> Dear Dr Wujastyk, The taboo on crossing the ocean was essentially a 19th century social issue, but it does not mean it was not found earlier. The main problem was not so much the crossing per se but the fact that on board one could not follow food regulations. By crossing the sea therefore, one ran the risk of losing one's caste. But again this was an issue only for those who came back to India, not for those who stayed abroad and outside Hindu society.I have attempted to synthetize the main aspects of the question of sea travel for the Brill Encyclopedia of Hinduism (Catherine Cl?mentin-Ojha, ?Travel Regulations?, in: Brill?s Encyclopedia of Hinduism, Edited by: Knut A. Jacobsen, Helene Basu, Angelika Malinar, Vasudha Narayanan. Consulted online on 13 October 2016 First published online: 2012). I can also send a pdf of the same. As for the ocean itself, we might also recall that according to ancient Indian cosmology the "Indian space" is entirely surrounded by sea. Best wishes, Catherine Cl?mentin-Ojha, Paris ----- Mail d'origine ----- De: alakendu das ?: wujastyk at gmail.com Cc: indology at list.indology.info Envoy?: Thu, 13 Oct 2016 18:17:53 +0200 (CEST) Objet: Re: [INDOLOGY] crossing oceans? Dr.Wujastyk, Yes, 'Ocean' has often been used in Ancient Indian texts. The probable reason may be to relate the vastness of our life ,with its myriad of complexities. to the vastness of an ocean. This perhaps is relevant, since the ultimate aim of our life,according to our ancient Indian philosophy ,is to attain enlightenment in life,and thereby bypass all mundane problems ,by way of Realisation of our Self ( i.e.Atmana) . A quote from Shankaracharya's Vivekchuramani- Uddharen Atmanam Atmana Magnau Samsar Baridah . Here the word'Samsar Baridah'implies THIS LIFE-OCEAN depicting the various shades, Crest-nadir,the tumultous multititude of our life-cycle ALAKENDU DAS -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From paoloe.rosati at gmail.com Thu Oct 13 17:26:08 2016 From: paoloe.rosati at gmail.com (Paolo Eugenio Rosati) Date: Thu, 13 Oct 16 19:26:08 +0200 Subject: [INDOLOGY] PDF request: Myth and Mythmaking: Continuous Evolution in Indian Tradition. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Thanks to all that sand me the chapter five.This meaning list is great! Sincerely, Paolo On 13 October 2016 at 10:59, Paolo Eugenio Rosati wrote: > Dear Indologists, > > I'm looking for a pdf copy of > > Julia Leslie (ed.). 1996. *Myth and Mythmaking: Continuous Evolution in > Indian Tradition*. New York: Routledge. > > I'd like to read all the book, but I'm particularly interested in chapter > 5 "menstruation myths". > > Best, > Paolo > > -- > Paolo E. Rosati > Oriental Archaeologist > PhD candidate in "Civilizations of Asia and Africa" > South Asia Section > Dep. Italian Institute of Oriental Studies/ISO > 'Sapienza' University of Rome > *https://uniroma1.academia.edu/PaoloRosati/ > * > paoloe.rosati at uniroma1.it > paoloe.rosati at gmail.com > Skype: paoloe.rosati > Mobile: (+39) 338 73 83 472 > -- Paolo E. Rosati Oriental Archaeologist PhD candidate in "Civilizations of Asia and Africa" South Asia Section Dep. Italian Institute of Oriental Studies/ISO 'Sapienza' University of Rome *https://uniroma1.academia.edu/PaoloRosati/ * paoloe.rosati at uniroma1.it paoloe.rosati at gmail.com Skype: paoloe.rosati Mobile: (+39) 338 73 83 472 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mmdesh at umich.edu Thu Oct 13 21:00:20 2016 From: mmdesh at umich.edu (Madhav Deshpande) Date: Thu, 13 Oct 16 17:00:20 -0400 Subject: =?utf-8?Q?[INDOLOGY]_Pdfs_of_Abdhi-Nauy=C4=81na-M=C4=ABm=C4=81=E1=B9=83s=C4=81_and_Parya=E1=B9=ADanam=C4=ABm=C4=81=E1=B9=83s=C4=81?= Message-ID: If anyone is interested in these two texts, you can download them from the following link. WeTransfer link should be alive till October 20. https://we.tl/QPTxl77eii Madhav Deshpande -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rpg at berkeley.edu Thu Oct 13 22:19:03 2016 From: rpg at berkeley.edu (Robert Goldman) Date: Thu, 13 Oct 16 15:19:03 -0700 Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_[INDOLOGY]_Re=C2=A0:_Re:__crossing_oceans=3F?= In-Reply-To: <702313478.3122169.1476378610921.JavaMail.zimbra@ehess.fr> Message-ID: <0B8D652D-2C0E-40B4-8F37-8ECE491199CC@berkeley.edu> I believe that Clementin is no doubt correct in seeing the issue as connected with taboos on diet (and alsomingling with outsiders and their custom). Perhaps it originates with the old notions such as that of Manusm?ti 2.22 etc. of the ?ryavarta bounded east and west by the oceans as the (only) suitable homeland for the ?Aryas.? Then too one sees in the 19th century such issues as Indian troops in the company army, many of whom were brahmans, being aggrieved at being made to fight in Burma. But this issue also affected non-brahman higher caste groups as we see from Gandhi?s account of the concern of his caste fellows about his voyage to England and the ??uddhi? he had to undergo on his return. Dr. R. P. Goldman Catherine and William L. Magistretti Distinguished Professor in South and Southeast Asian Studies Department of South and Southeast Asian Studies MC # 2540 The University of California at Berkeley Berkeley, CA 94720-2540 Tel: 510-642-4089 Fax: 510-642-2409 > On Oct 13, 2016, at 10:10 AM, Clementin Catherine wrote: > > Dear Dr Wujastyk, > The taboo on crossing the ocean was essentially a 19th century social issue, but it does not mean it was not found earlier. The main problem was not so much the crossing per se but the fact that on board one could not follow food regulations. By crossing the sea therefore, one ran the risk of losing one's caste. But again this was an issue only for those who came back to India, not for those who stayed abroad and outside Hindu society. > I have attempted to synthetize the main aspects of the question of sea travel for the Brill Encyclopedia of Hinduism (Catherine Cl?mentin-Ojha, ?Travel Regulations?, in: Brill?s Encyclopedia of Hinduism, Edited by: Knut A. Jacobsen, Helene Basu, Angelika Malinar, Vasudha Narayanan. Consulted online on 13 October 2016 > First published online: 2012). I can also send a pdf of the same. > As for the ocean itself, we might also recall that according to ancient Indian cosmology the "Indian space" is entirely surrounded by sea. > Best wishes, > Catherine Cl?mentin-Ojha, Paris > > > ----- Mail d'origine ----- > De: alakendu das > > ?: wujastyk at gmail.com > Cc: indology at list.indology.info > Envoy?: Thu, 13 Oct 2016 18:17:53 +0200 (CEST) > Objet: Re: [INDOLOGY] crossing oceans? > > > > Dr.Wujastyk, > > Yes, 'Ocean' has often been used in Ancient Indian texts. The probable reason may be to relate the vastness of our life ,with its myriad of complexities. to the vastness of an ocean. This perhaps is relevant, since the ultimate aim of our life,according to our ancient Indian philosophy ,is to attain enlightenment in life,and thereby bypass all mundane problems ,by way of Realisation of our Self ( i.e.Atmana) . > > > A quote from Shankaracharya's Vivekchuramani- > > > Uddharen Atmanam Atmana Magnau Samsar Baridah . > > > Here the word'Samsar Baridah'implies THIS LIFE-OCEAN depicting the various shades, Crest-nadir,the tumultous multititude of our life-cycle > > > > ALAKENDU DAS > > > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From hr at ivs.edu Thu Oct 13 23:52:16 2016 From: hr at ivs.edu (Howard Resnick) Date: Thu, 13 Oct 16 19:52:16 -0400 Subject: [INDOLOGY] crossing oceans? In-Reply-To: <1476362617.S.9740.8520.f4-235-104.1476375473.27292@webmail.rediffmail.com> Message-ID: The Bh?gavata-pur??a several times gives the analogy of a merchant crossing the sea to sell wares. Yet there is no story in which this actually happens. The image is limited to analogies. Howard > On Oct 13, 2016, at 12:17 PM, alakendu das wrote: > > > Dr.Wujastyk, > Yes, 'Ocean' has often been used in Ancient Indian texts. The probable reason may be to relate the vastness of our life ,with its myriad of complexities. to the vastness of an ocean. This perhaps is relevant, since the ultimate aim of our life,according to our ancient Indian philosophy ,is to attain enlightenment in life,and thereby bypass all mundane problems ,by way of Realisation of our Self ( i.e.Atmana) . > > A quote from Shankaracharya's Vivekchuramani- > > Uddharen Atmanam Atmana Magnau Samsar Baridah . > > Here the word'Samsar Baridah'implies THIS LIFE-OCEAN depicting the various shades, Crest-nadir,the tumultous multititude of our life-cycle > > > ALAKENDU DAS > > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) From psdmccartney at gmail.com Fri Oct 14 01:29:19 2016 From: psdmccartney at gmail.com (patrick mccartney) Date: Fri, 14 Oct 16 11:59:19 +1030 Subject: [INDOLOGY] warriors v soldiers Message-ID: Dear Friends, Please forgive the possibly naive nature of this question, but was it the case that all warriors were considered to be of the same k?atriya class? Or, was it possible that the 'officers' were k?atriyas and the 'foot soldiers' were perhaps of a different caste, i.e. enslaved ?udras forced to fight? Is there any discussion of the militiary organisation according to ranks, size and hierarchy similar to the table below? Thanks in advance. [image: Inline image 1] All the best, Patrick McCartney, PhD Fellow School of Culture, History & Language College of the Asia-Pacific The Australian National University Canberra, Australia, 0200 Skype - psdmccartney Phone + Whatsapp: +61 414 954 748 Twitter - @psdmccartney academia - Linkedin Edanz #yogabodyANU2016 symposium Ep1 - Imagining Sanskrit Land Ep 2 - Total-am Ep 3 - Jalam ? Chillum Ep 4 - It's Time to get Married A Day in our Ashram Stop animation short film of Shakuntala Forced to Clean Human Waste One of my favourite song s -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From wujastyk at gmail.com Fri Oct 14 02:07:09 2016 From: wujastyk at gmail.com (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Thu, 13 Oct 16 20:07:09 -0600 Subject: [INDOLOGY] scan? Message-ID: My turn to ask :-) Has anybody scanned AUTHOR: KOLATTERI SANKARA MENON TITLE: BHADANTA NAGARJUNA'S RASA VAISESHIKA SUTRA WITH THE COMMENTARY OF NARASIMHA DATE: ?1928 or ? 1976 (reprint) NOTES: http://www.worldcat.org/oclc/863593175 ?I've checked DLI, archive.org, scribd, etc. And it's not available in Canada through inter-library loan or purchase. Many thanks either way, Dominik Wujastyk? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From hspier.muktabodha at gmail.com Fri Oct 14 03:54:14 2016 From: hspier.muktabodha at gmail.com (Harry Spier) Date: Thu, 13 Oct 16 23:54:14 -0400 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Articles needed Message-ID: Dear list members, I came across two articles in academia.edu (probably by list members) that I unfortunately didn't download and can't find anymore. If anyone can give me either the links to them or the pdfs I'd be grateful.The titles were something like a) Vocatives for nomanitives, vocatives replacing nominatives b) viniyoga Also if anyone can point me to any; articles on the word "Guru" particularly about its linguistic history in becoming the word for "teacher, preceptor". Thank you, Harry Spier -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From hspier.muktabodha at gmail.com Fri Oct 14 04:05:29 2016 From: hspier.muktabodha at gmail.com (Harry Spier) Date: Fri, 14 Oct 16 00:05:29 -0400 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Hindi/Marathi transliteration Message-ID: Dear list members, I've been asked this question to which I don't know the answer. In the transliteration of Hindi or Marathi are dashes usually placed between stems of compounds as is sometimes done in transliterating sanskrit. Thanks, Harry Spier -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From nivi71r at yahoo.co.in Fri Oct 14 05:05:38 2016 From: nivi71r at yahoo.co.in (Nivedita Rout) Date: Fri, 14 Oct 16 05:05:38 +0000 Subject: [INDOLOGY] crossing oceans? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <710847120.100152.1476421538792@mail.yahoo.com> I am referring here only the textual reference of the symbolism of the phrase of crossing ocean which is recorded in Nirukta (2.10): samudra (sam+ud+dru: waters flow up) or (sam+abhi+dru waters flow towards it) is understood as the passage between earth and heaven. One may find the detail explanation of the same under Nirukta 2.10.? From: Dominik Wujastyk To: Indology Sent: Thursday, October 13, 2016 6:12 PM Subject: [INDOLOGY] crossing oceans? Why is half the religious literature of early India concerned with "crossing the ocean of sa?s?ra," when crossing a real ocean was forbidden for twice-born members of society?? Why that?metaphor in particular? ? Crossing fords, rivers, etc., makes metaphorical sense, and was allowed.? But oceans? -- Professor Dominik Wujastyk* Singhmar Chair in Classical Indian Society and Polity Department of History and Classics University of Alberta, Canada ?sas.ualberta.ca? _______________________________________________ INDOLOGY mailing list INDOLOGY at list.indology.info indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dermot at grevatt.force9.co.uk Fri Oct 14 09:34:05 2016 From: dermot at grevatt.force9.co.uk (dermot at grevatt.force9.co.uk) Date: Fri, 14 Oct 16 10:34:05 +0100 Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_[INDOLOGY]_Re=C2=A0:_Re:__crossing_oceans=3F?= In-Reply-To: <0B8D652D-2C0E-40B4-8F37-8ECE491199CC@berkeley.edu> Message-ID: <5800A68D.12477.6811DC@dermot.grevatt.force9.co.uk> Sea voyage became an issue in the 19th century, especially in Kolkata, due to a number of factors. There were increased facilities for travel, and also increased incentives: the wish to meet people one had corresponded with (e.g. Rammohun Roy), the wish to spread one's own version of the "spiritual" Hindu tradition in the "materialist" West (e.g. Keshub Chunder Sen, Vivekananda), employment, and study. There was also the rise, in early 19th-century Kolkata, of a newly rich class, some of whose members sought to legitimate its status by appeal to tradition, while at the same time constructing that tradition through elaborate expenditure on shraddhs (rites for the dead), pilgrimages, Durga puja, and other rituals, together with elaborate measures to maintain purity and avoid pollution (brief account, with refs, in my Rammohun Roy in Hindu and Christian Tradition, pp. 27-29). Other members of the same class (including those known as "Young Bengal") repudiated Hindu tradition, or those parts of it they considered degenerate, and became atheists, Christians, Brahmos, or (later in the 19th century) Theosophists. I must add, though it is often not mentioned, that those who publicly took either of these stances were predominantly, and for much of the nineteenth century exclusively, male. This class consisted mainly of three hereditary groups: brahmins, kayasthas and vaidyas; the latter two claimed dvija status which was disputed by others. As Catherine Cl?mentin-Ojha points out, sea travel becomes an issue on return from overseas. The question arose whether to capitulate to tradition by performing prayascitta (involving the ingestion of the five products of the cow) or to assert one's independence and modernity by refusing it. Dermot Killingley On 13 Oct 2016 at 15:19, Robert Goldman wrote: I believe that Clementin is no doubt correct in seeing the issue as connected with taboos on diet (and alsomingling with outsiders and their custom). Perhaps it originates with the old notions such as that of Manusmti 2.22 etc. of the Aryavarta bounded east and west by the oceans as the (only) suitable homeland for the "Aryas." Then too one sees in the 19th century such issues as Indian troops in the company army, many of whom were brahmans, being aggrieved at being made to fight in Burma. But this issue also affected non-brahman higher caste groups as we see from Gandhi's account of the concern of his caste fellows about his voyage to England and the "?suddhi" he had to undergo on his return. Dr. R. P. Goldman Catherine and William L. Magistretti Distinguished Professor in South and Southeast Asian Studies Department of South and Southeast Asian Studies MC # 2540 The University of California at Berkeley Berkeley, CA 94720-2540 Tel: 510-642-4089 Fax: 510-642-2409 On Oct 13, 2016, at 10:10 AM, Clementin Catherine wrote: Dear Dr Wujastyk, The taboo on crossing the ocean was essentially a 19th century social issue, but it does not mean it was not found earlier. The main problem was not so much the crossing per se but the fact that on board one could not follow food regulations. By crossing the sea therefore, one ran the risk of losing one's caste. But again this was an issue only for those who came back to India, not for those who stayed abroad and outside Hindu society. I have attempted to synthetize the main aspects of the question of sea travel for the Brill Encyclopedia of Hinduism (Catherine Cl?mentin-Ojha, "Travel Regulations", in: Brill's Encyclopedia of Hinduism, Edited by: Knut A. Jacobsen, Helene Basu, Angelika Malinar, Vasudha Narayanan. Consulted online on 13 October 2016 First published online: 2012). I can also send a pdf of the same. As for the ocean itself, we might also recall that according to ancient Indian cosmology the "Indian space" is entirely surrounded by sea. Best wishes, Catherine Cl?mentin-Ojha, Paris ----- Mail d'origine ----- De: alakendu das ?: wujastyk at gmail.com Cc: indology at list.indology.info Envoy?: Thu, 13 Oct 2016 18:17:53 +0200 (CEST) Objet: Re: [INDOLOGY] crossing oceans? Dr.Wujastyk, Yes, 'Ocean' has often been used in Ancient Indian texts. The probable reason may be to relate the vastness of our life ,with its myriad of complexities. to the vastness of an ocean. This perhaps is relevant, since the ultimate aim of our life,according to our ancient Indian philosophy ,is to attain enlightenment in life,and thereby bypass all mundane problems ,by way of Realisation of our Self ( i.e.Atmana) . A quote from Shankaracharya's Vivekchuramani- Uddharen Atmanam Atmana Magnau Samsar Baridah . Here the word'Samsar Baridah'implies THIS LIFE-OCEAN depicting the various shades, Crest-nadir,the tumultous multititude of our life-cycle ALAKENDU DAS _______________________________________________ INDOLOGY mailing list INDOLOGY at list.indology.info indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) -- Dermot Killingley 9, Rectory Drive, Gosforth, Newcastle upon Tyne NE3 1XT Phone (0191) 285 8053 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mkapstei at uchicago.edu Fri Oct 14 10:03:04 2016 From: mkapstei at uchicago.edu (Matthew Kapstein) Date: Fri, 14 Oct 16 10:03:04 +0000 Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_[INDOLOGY]_Re=C2=A0:_Re:__crossing_oceans=3F?= In-Reply-To: <5800A68D.12477.6811DC@dermot.grevatt.force9.co.uk> Message-ID: <82C3E42590D939418C74DD76B97DDED047BCC19E@xm-mbx-06-prod> Some of the social complexity of sea travel in and out of 19th c. India, focusing on Kolkata and Mumbai (and Canton), is of course now entertainingly reborn in Amitav Ghosh's Ibis Trilogy...... Matthew Kapstein Directeur d'?tudes, Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes Numata Visiting Professor of Buddhist Studies, The University of Chicago ________________________________ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From c.ram-prasad at lancaster.ac.uk Fri Oct 14 11:07:57 2016 From: c.ram-prasad at lancaster.ac.uk (Ram-Prasad, Chakravarthi) Date: Fri, 14 Oct 16 11:07:57 +0000 Subject: [INDOLOGY] on smara Message-ID: <5622B5FA1B14F3439A3ABC85C5A09EA823F14314@EX-0-MB2.lancs.local> Could anyone point me to an explanation for the semantic overlap or slippage in ?smara? from memory/recollection to a name for kAma-deva? Thank you. Ram-Prasad Chakravarthi Ram-Prasad Professor of Comparative Religion and Philosophy Lancaster University -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From manufrancis at gmail.com Fri Oct 14 11:12:22 2016 From: manufrancis at gmail.com (Manu Francis) Date: Fri, 14 Oct 16 13:12:22 +0200 Subject: [INDOLOGY] crossing oceans? Message-ID: Dear Dominik, Whatever the history of the ban on sea travel, the ?bank? (of a river, but also of an ocean) metaphor is also used to describe learned people. See p?rad??van (M-W: ?one who has seen the oppositive shore, far-seeing, wise, completely familiar with or versed in?), i.e. one who understood the whole thing. Dro?a for instance is described in a Pallava inscription as *b???stravedacaturar??avap?radr??v?*, literally ?who has seen the other bank of the fourfold ocean that the Veda about the bow is.? Attaining mok?a is reaching the other bank of the ?ocean of sa?s?ra?. In a buddhist context, the Buddha recollected all his previous lifes, before his nirv??a. As for more on ocean as vastness, totality, completude, see the title Kath?sarits?gara, or the very conventional description in epigraphy of universal sovereigns as ruling or being famous up to the three/four/seven oceans, i.e. in the whole world. See also some of the birudas of Narasi?havarman II Pallava (8th c.): J??nas?gara, ?Ocean of knowledge?, Kal?samudra, ?Ocean of artistic skills?. With very best wishes. -- Emmanuel Francis Charg? de recherche CNRS, Centre d'?tude de l'Inde et de l'Asie du Sud (UMR 8564, EHESS-CNRS, Paris) http://ceias.ehess.fr/ http://ceias.ehess.fr/index.php?1725 http://rcsi.hypotheses.org/ Associate member, Centre for the Study of Manuscript Culture (SFB 950, Universit?t Hamburg) http://www.manuscript-cultures.uni-hamburg.de/index_e.html https://cnrs.academia.edu/emmanuelfrancis 2016-10-14 12:03 GMT+02:00 Matthew Kapstein : > Some of the social complexity of sea travel in and out of 19th c. India, > focusing on Kolkata > and Mumbai (and Canton), is of course now entertainingly reborn in Amitav > Ghosh's Ibis Trilogy...... > > Matthew Kapstein > Directeur d'?tudes, > Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes > > Numata Visiting Professor of Buddhist Studies, > The University of Chicago > ------------------------------ > > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing > committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or > unsubscribe) > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From arlogriffiths at hotmail.com Fri Oct 14 13:53:49 2016 From: arlogriffiths at hotmail.com (Arlo Griffiths) Date: Fri, 14 Oct 16 13:53:49 +0000 Subject: [INDOLOGY] on smara In-Reply-To: <5622B5FA1B14F3439A3ABC85C5A09EA823F14314@EX-0-MB2.lancs.local> Message-ID: See the attached article by a well known French scholar, named MALAMOUD Charles. GRIFFITHS Arlo ?cole fran?aise d'Extr?me-Orient ________________________________ From: INDOLOGY on behalf of Ram-Prasad, Chakravarthi Sent: Friday, October 14, 2016 11:07 AM To: Indology Subject: [INDOLOGY] on smara Could anyone point me to an explanation for the semantic overlap or slippage in ?smara? from memory/recollection to a name for kAma-deva? Thank you. Ram-Prasad Chakravarthi Ram-Prasad Professor of Comparative Religion and Philosophy Lancaster University -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Malamoud1987Amouretmemoire.PDF Type: application/pdf Size: 226017 bytes Desc: not available URL: From c.ram-prasad at lancaster.ac.uk Fri Oct 14 14:06:07 2016 From: c.ram-prasad at lancaster.ac.uk (Ram-Prasad, Chakravarthi) Date: Fri, 14 Oct 16 14:06:07 +0000 Subject: [INDOLOGY] on smara In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <22B84913-16BE-47FA-8E94-406E1F73690E@lancaster.ac.uk> Tout ? fait exact. Il est tout ce que je voulais. Thank you, Ram iPhone On 14 Oct 2016, at 14:53, Arlo Griffiths > wrote: See the attached article by a well known French scholar, named MALAMOUD Charles. GRIFFITHS Arlo ?cole fran?aise d'Extr?me-Orient ________________________________ From: INDOLOGY > on behalf of Ram-Prasad, Chakravarthi > Sent: Friday, October 14, 2016 11:07 AM To: Indology Subject: [INDOLOGY] on smara Could anyone point me to an explanation for the semantic overlap or slippage in ?smara? from memory/recollection to a name for kAma-deva? Thank you. Ram-Prasad Chakravarthi Ram-Prasad Professor of Comparative Religion and Philosophy Lancaster University -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bill.m.mak at gmail.com Fri Oct 14 14:35:33 2016 From: bill.m.mak at gmail.com (Bill Mak) Date: Fri, 14 Oct 16 10:35:33 -0400 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Crypto-Hindu and crypto-Buddhist Message-ID: Dear colleagues, I recently came across an article on Chinese Buddhism by Ritzinger, where the author repeatedly described Mah?y?na texts such as the Lotus S?tra as ?crypto-Hindu? (!). I have never come across such expression although I am aware of a body of scholarly works which explore how Mah?y?na appropriated non-Buddhist materials of other traditions in the later periods. Stephen Hodge appears to have used the term ?crypto-Hindu? rhetorically in an Indology-list thread in 2000 : http://list.indology.info/pipermail/indology_list.indology.info/2000-October/023159.html I found online also some discussions of ?a?kara as being ?crypto-Buddhist?. Can anyone enlighten me the contemporary usage of ?crypto-? in South Indian religious discourse, and its historical source. Bill Mak -- Bill M. Mak, PhD Visiting research scholar Institute for the Study of the Ancient World (ISAW) New York University 15 East 84th Street New York, NY 10028 US Associate Professor Institute for Research in Humanities, Kyoto University Yoshidahonmachi, Sakyo-ku, Kyoto, Japan 606-8501 ?606-8501 ?????????? ??????????? email: mak at zinbun.kyoto-u.ac.jp Tel:+81-75-753-6961 Fax:+81-75-753-6903 copies of my publications may be found at: http://www.billmak.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mkapstei at uchicago.edu Fri Oct 14 14:58:14 2016 From: mkapstei at uchicago.edu (Matthew Kapstein) Date: Fri, 14 Oct 16 14:58:14 +0000 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Crypto-Hindu and crypto-Buddhist In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <82C3E42590D939418C74DD76B97DDED047BCC266@xm-mbx-06-prod> Hi Bill, The "crypto-Buddhist" charge against ?a?kara is, I think, inspired by RamAnuja's (at least, I recall it as RamAnuja's) castigation of him as prachanna-bauddha, for which crypto-Buddhist is fair enough as a translation. I don't think that we find a similar emic notion of "crypto-Hindu," though there are some Buddhist polemics I know that may suggest this. Tibetan critics of Dol-po-pa's theory of "extrinsic emptiness" (Gzhan-stong), for instance, often condemn it as disguised sAMkhya or vedAnta, but I doubt that Ritzinger or Hodge had this in mind. best, Matthew Matthew Kapstein Directeur d'?tudes, Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes Numata Visiting Professor of Buddhist Studies, The University of Chicago ________________________________ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From wujastyk at gmail.com Fri Oct 14 14:59:51 2016 From: wujastyk at gmail.com (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Fri, 14 Oct 16 08:59:51 -0600 Subject: [INDOLOGY] nostalgia Message-ID: I had to look up the earliest version of the INDOLOGY website this morning, for administrative reasons. November 1999. It can be viewed here . :-) DW -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From nagarajpaturi at gmail.com Fri Oct 14 18:15:45 2016 From: nagarajpaturi at gmail.com (Nagaraj Paturi) Date: Fri, 14 Oct 16 23:45:45 +0530 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Crypto-Hindu and crypto-Buddhist In-Reply-To: <82C3E42590D939418C74DD76B97DDED047BCC266@xm-mbx-06-prod> Message-ID: > Can anyone enlighten me the contemporary usage of ?crypto-? in South Indian religious discourse, and its historical source. Why particularly South Indian ? Any special reason? Before you help me understand that aspect, let me mention a usage similar to this but different from this: Krishna is called Kuhanaagopa - a 'pseudo-pastoral' in a highly positive praising sense: in the sense that he is none other than Bhagavaan /Paramaatman/ Parabrahman disguised as a cattle-rearer. On Fri, Oct 14, 2016 at 8:28 PM, Matthew Kapstein wrote: > Hi Bill, > > The "crypto-Buddhist" charge against ?a?kara is, I think, inspired by > RamAnuja's > (at least, I recall it as RamAnuja's) castigation of him as > prachanna-bauddha, for > which crypto-Buddhist is fair enough as a translation. I don't think that > we find > a similar emic notion of "crypto-Hindu," though there are some Buddhist > polemics > I know that may suggest this. Tibetan critics of Dol-po-pa's theory of > "extrinsic > emptiness" (Gzhan-stong), for instance, often condemn it as disguised > sAMkhya or vedAnta, > but I doubt that Ritzinger or Hodge had this in mind. > > best, > Matthew > > Matthew Kapstein > Directeur d'?tudes, > Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes > > Numata Visiting Professor of Buddhist Studies, > The University of Chicago > ------------------------------ > > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing > committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or > unsubscribe) > -- Nagaraj Paturi Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA. Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of Liberal Education, (Pune, Maharashtra, INDIA ) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From nagarajpaturi at gmail.com Fri Oct 14 18:21:33 2016 From: nagarajpaturi at gmail.com (Nagaraj Paturi) Date: Fri, 14 Oct 16 23:51:33 +0530 Subject: [INDOLOGY] warriors v soldiers In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I am not able to see the table. On Fri, Oct 14, 2016 at 6:59 AM, patrick mccartney wrote: > Dear Friends, > > Please forgive the possibly naive nature of this question, but was it the > case that all warriors were considered to be of the same k?atriya class? > Or, was it possible that the 'officers' were k?atriyas and the 'foot > soldiers' were perhaps of a different caste, i.e. enslaved ?udras forced to > fight? Is there any discussion of the militiary organisation according to > ranks, size and hierarchy similar to the table below? > > Thanks in advance. > > [image: Inline image 1] > > All the best, > > Patrick McCartney, PhD > Fellow > School of Culture, History & Language > College of the Asia-Pacific > The Australian National University > Canberra, Australia, 0200 > > > Skype - psdmccartney > Phone + Whatsapp: +61 414 954 748 > Twitter - @psdmccartney > > > academia > > - > > Linkedin > > > Edanz > > #yogabodyANU2016 symposium > > > Ep1 - Imagining Sanskrit Land > > Ep 2 - Total-am > > Ep 3 - Jalam ? Chillum > > Ep 4 - It's Time to get Married > > > A Day in our Ashram > > > Stop animation short film of Shakuntala > > > Forced to Clean Human Waste > > One of my favourite song > s > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing > committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or > unsubscribe) > -- Nagaraj Paturi Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA. Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of Liberal Education, (Pune, Maharashtra, INDIA ) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From koenraadelst at hotmail.com Fri Oct 14 18:37:11 2016 From: koenraadelst at hotmail.com (Koenraad Elst) Date: Fri, 14 Oct 16 18:37:11 +0000 Subject: [INDOLOGY] INDOLOGY Digest, Vol 45, Issue 13 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Dear listfolk, Hearty thanks for the EJVS paper on the Battle of the Ten Kings, indeed the major historical event in the RV. http://crossasia-journals.ub.uni-heidelberg.de/index.php/ejvs/article/view/933 http://crossasia-journals.ub.uni-heidelberg.de/index.php/ejvs/issue/view/124/showToc Unfortuately, those who know the hymns concerned readily see a few wrong assumptions, clearly necessitated by the prior assumption of the Aryan Invasion, or at least of the relatedness of this event with the Invasion (for these two are really separate, e.g. the Boer War was not a war against the indigenous people but a war between two different colonizers). The primary text does not say that Sudas went West to East, on the contrary, in two separate sentences and in two different ways, it is said that Sudas had to ward off an attack from the West. Anyway, I reproduce the relevant passage from a paper of mine on Vasishtha, in the process f being published: 4. The Battle of the Ten Kings The single most important historical event mentioned in the ?g-Veda is the Battle of the Ten Kings. It is the topic of hymns RV 7:18/33/83, and a number of allusions elsewhere, both by Vasi??ha and by other seers. It is a battle between the ?ryas (meaning the Pauravas, the seer?s own tribe) and the D?sa coalition of ten clans, led by Kavi and Bheda. 4.1. History of the battle The coalition comes from the west, from the basin of the Asikn? river, the present-day Chenab, to attack Sud?s on the riverside of the Paru???, the present-day Ravi (7:18:8-9), both in Pakistani Panjab. The word ?attack? does not really imply that the coalition was the aggressor, though the Vedic people saw it that way. It may just as well have been a tactical counteroffensive within a war in which Sud?s himself was the main aggressor. Our knowledge of this conflict is just too sketchy and moreover based on a partisan source. The tactical moves mainly pertain to the military use of the river: it seems that, when the coalition surrounded Sud?s?s army, the latter escaped by fording the river (?Indra made the river shallow and easy for Sud?s to traverse?, RV 7:18:5, ?fordable Paru????, RV 7:18:8), that the coalition fell into disarray while trying to cross the river, that some soldiers drowned while others were overtaken in hot pursuit. Their leader Kava?a drowns, along with Druhyu (RV 7:18:12). Kavi ?dies? (RV 7:18:8), Bheda first escapes but later gets killed (RV 7:18:18-19), and one Devata is also killed (RV 7:18:20). Both the legitimate enemy and Sud?s?s tribesmen siding with the enemy were defeated: ?Ye smote and slew his D?sa and his ?rya enemies and helped Sud?s with favour, Indra-Varu?a.? (RV 7:83:1) At any rate, the outcome of the battle is a clear victory, for the enemies are killed, dispersed or thrown back to the west, to the Asikn? basin: ?Agni chased these Dasyus in the east and turned the godless westward? (RV 7:6:3). They leave their possessions behind and (part of) their land is occupied to become part of the Paurava domain. 4.2. Who were the enemies? The Vedic text gives quite a bit of detail about the enemy coalition. The ethnic identity of the enemies, often treated as a mystery (if not filled in as ?obviously the black aboriginals?), is in fact crystal-clear. Sud?s, the T?tsu, defeats the Pauravas? northwestern neighbor among the five tribes, the ?navas: ?The goods of Anu?s son he gave to T?tsu.? (RV 7:18:13) In the next verse, the ?navas are mentioned again, together with what remained of the Druhyu tribe, as having been ?put to sleep?. The enemies include Kavi and Kava?a, the enemy tribes P??u, P?thu, Paktha, Bhalana (RV 7:18:7) are collectively known as D?sa, some of them as Pa?i (lambasted already in 7:6:3), and their priests as Dasyu. Practically all the names of enemy tribes or enemy leaders are Iranian or pertain to tribes known from Greco-Roman sources as Iranian: Kavi, the name of the Iranian dynasty still featuring in Zarathu?tra?s G?th?s (e.g. G?th? 51:16, Insler 1975:107); Kava?a/Kao?a; D?sa/Dahae; Dasyu/Danghyu; Pa?i/Parnoi; ?nava/Anaoi; Par?u/Persoi; P?thu/Parthoi; Paktha/Pa?tu; Bhal?na/Baluc/Bol?n. A few are not, at least at first sight, and it is after all a heterogeneous coalition. But names like Bheda, while not conspicuously Iranian, are not recognizably Dravidian or Munda either, and none of these names is. On the same pattern, we later get the theological contrast between Asura and Ahura. The first seers including Vasi??ha still use the word in a positive sense, as ?lord? or ?powerful one?: one of his hymns for Agni starts out as ?praise of the Asura? (RV 7:6:1), and he calls Agni again ?the Asura? (RV 7:30:3), while Indra provides asurya, ?lordliness?, ?manliness? (RV 7:21:7). Yet, he also calls Agni the ?Asura-slayer? (RV 7:13.1): this could be neutral, meaning ?even mightier than the mighty ones?, but it could also signal the shift from positive to negative. In the later hymns and in Hindu literature ever since, Asura has served as the usual term for ?agent of evil?, ?demon?, but still with a dignified status and an unmistakable dexterity, in distinction from the lowly R?k?as?s. In Buddhism too, Asuras are associated with powerful quasi-human emotions, especially jealousy of the gods, but do not inhabit one of the hells where the Hungry Ghosts and other lowly creatures dwell (Krishna 2014:60-61). Conversely, in the Iranian tradition they retain their divine status and it is the Deva/Da?vas who got demonized. Note also that unlike the term Asura, the term D?sa had already acquired a negative connotation before the battle. It had been used for ?ambara, a proverbial enemy slain by the Vedic king Divod?sa (RV 6:26:5 and 6:47:21, also mentioned as his defeated foe in 6:43:1 and 9:61:2). Yet, originally the term did have a neutral or positive meaning, as is clear enough from its use in the names Divod?sa and Sud?s. Though this is clear enough, Iranologists generally keep labouring under the notion that early Avestan history is a mystery. By contrast, Parsi scholars candidly link the Battle of the Ten Kings (and the subsequent V?r??gira Battle, sung esp. in RV 1:100) to early Avestan history (Hodiwala 1913:12-16). Others create a confused picture, theorizing e.g. that the Vedic tribe consisted of Aryan invaders penetrating India eastwards, and that the D?sas were either aboriginals or earlier invaders resisting the western newcomers. Thus, D?sas and Dasyus were ?people and cultures either indigenous to South Asia or already in South Asia ? from wherever or whenever they may have come ? when the carriers of Rgvedic culture and religion moved into and through the northwest of the subcontinent? (Jamison & Brereton 2014:56). The thrust of Sud?s?s Vedic Aryans was towards: ?the region to the east (?), the Ga?g?-Yamun? Doab to which the Bharatas advanced (?) In this country of the D?sas and Asuras?. (Pradhan 2014:188) Yet, nothing in the text supports this idea that the Vedic people came from the west and the D?sas from the east, or that the D?sas mentioned lived across the Yamuna, or that the Vedic people were intruders while the D?sas were the established population, or that the Aryans even outside the context of this battle were on the move from west to east. On the contrary, twice and in two different ways, the source text says it is the D?sas and Dasyus who came from the west. It says that they have come to the ?east? for a fight and that these ?godless ones? are turned back ?westward? (7:6:3); and it has them come from the westerly Asikn?/Chenab river valley to challenge and fight Sud?s on the shores of the easterly Paru???/Ravi. That doesn?t mean they were intruders into India, though: it is a big country, and it is most unlikely that any of the warring parties identified with India as a whole (as opposed to their own slice of it) as ?their? country. Even Pradhan, who hurries to toe the orthodox line, breaks ranks with his Western mentors by accepting as simply obvious the Iranian identity of the Ten Kings, e.g.: ?their Indo-Iranian past gave the D?sas the institution of sacrifice? (Pradhan 2014:124), ?their Aryan antecedents become clear from the Avest? and the Greek historians? notices of the Dahae and the Parnoi? (Pradhan 2014:132). He silently passes over the improbable implication that this would put the Iranians where he had earlier located the Ten Kings, viz. east of the Yamuna, a rather unorthodox hypothesis. So everything, including a western-neighbourly location, points to the Iranians. Nothing is there to deny it, nothing points to anyone else. 4.3. The enemies? religion The heroes of this hymn, the T?tsus, are ?ryas and supported by Indra. The enemy camp as a whole is deemed anindra, ?without Indra? (7:18:16), in a verse that seems to furnish the first instance of this term. Later books use this as a standard allegation of the enemies: ?Indra-less destructive spirit? (RV 4:23.7), ?how can those without Indra and without hymns harm me?? (RV 5:2:3), ?enemies without Indra?, truth-haters (RV 1:133:1), ?my enemies without Indra? (RV 10:48:7), ?Indra-less libation-drinkers? (RV 10:27:6) According to Geldner (2003/3:166), the latter is a ?reminiscence of 7:18:16?. Either the same enemy people was involved or, perhaps, this had ultimately become a set phrase in referring to enemies. Included in the enemy camp are the Dasyus, described as ?faithless, rudely-speaking Pa?is/niggards, without belief, sacrifice or worship? (RV 7:6:3). Other seers call them ?without sacrifice? (RV 1:33:4, 8:70:11), ?without oath? (RV 1:51:8, 1:175:3, 6:14:3, 9:41:2), ?riteless? (RV 10:22:8), ?godless? (adeva, RV 8:70:11), ?faithless? (RV 1.33.9, 2:22:10), ?prayerless? (RV 4:16:9), ?following different rites? (RV 8:70:11, 10:22:8). All these are properties pertaining to religion. Dasyus are the D?sas? priests and the special target of Vasi??ha?s ire. In fact, opposition to the Dasyus is a general Vedic trait: ?Dasyus never figure as rich or powerful enemies. They are depicted as sly enemies who incite others into acts of boldness (6:24:8) (?) The Dasyus are clearly regarded with uncompromising hostility, while the hostility towards the D?sas is relatively mild? (Talageri 2000:253). Whereas commoners go to the movies to watch famous actors and actresses, intellectuals (the kind who come out of the movie theatre commenting: ?I liked the book better?) go there to make their point of view on the scenarist?s plot and the director?s elaboration of it. Whereas commoners speak of World War 2 in terms of ?German? aggression, ?British? fortitude and ?Russian? sacrifices, intellectuals see a three-way contest between the competing ideologies animating the Axis, the Soviet Union and the Atlantic countries. So, Sud?s?s court priest is less interested in the warriors who do the actual fighting, and more in the ideologues who have turned the battle in a competition between different pantheons and different ways of pleasing them. The Iranian religion fits the bill. The Vedic seers saw a very similar religious practice and a very similar worldview, of people whom they understood in spite of a different accent, and therefore were extra sensitive to the points where the Athravans had ?deviated? from the Vedic standard. Consider: the Mazdeans are ?without fire-sacrifice?: they don?t throw things into the sacred fire, because they hold it even more sacred than the Vedic sacrificial priests, who still use it as a channel towards the gods. An Avestan yasna is not a Vedic yaj?a. They don?t worship the Devas, whom they have demonized: Da?va means ?devil?. Conversely, the Vedic Aryans originally worshipped but ultimately demonized the Asuras (Hale 1986). Among the gods, Indra in particular was identified with the principle of Evil. Nevertheless, the substantivated epithet Verethraghna (?V?tra-slayer?) was separated from him and remained popular. We may speculate that in an earlier confrontation, Indra did not give them victory, so they demonized him, turning him into the ?angry spirit?, Angra Mainyu. Vedic Manyu (addressee of RV 10:83-84) was a name of Indra in his aspect of fury and passion. A?gra seems to be a pun on the A?giras, the clan of his priests. Alternatively, the far northwest of the Subcontinent has no clear monsoon, a time opened with a thunderstorm signified by Indra. During their migrations as sketched in the Pur??as, the ?navas are said to have moved from the Western Ga?g? basin, which has a monsoon, to Kashmir and West-Panjab, where the memory of a monsoon must have faded, so Indra became less relevant and easily identified with the people from monsoon territory. Another element that may have played a role here, is Vasi??ha?s stated opposition to magic: ?Let the heroes (?) prevail against all godless arts of magic? (RV 7:1:10), ?Against the sorcerers hurl your bolt? (RV 7:104:25). Human experience teaches the perfect compatibility of this ?skeptical? position with the fact that his own sacrificial rituals deemed to result in battlefield victories (just like the ?miraculous? medallions worn by Catholics resulting in impossible cures) equally amount to magic. At any rate, this cursed sorcery was identified with the Asuras, who are often depicted in stories as more resourceful than the Devas. Magic is at the centre of the Atharva Veda, named after the Iranian priestly class, the Athravans, and held in lower esteem than the Veda-tray?, the other three Vedas. In this case, it is not yet clear what was cause and what was effect: magic (from Magoi, the Greek name of the Iranian priests) was associated with the Iranians, and both the one and the other were mistrusted. Finally, on the Vedic side, it is possible that Varu?a?s identity with the enemies? god Ahura Mazd? had something to do with his decline and gradual disappearance from the Vedic horizon: ?One notices the decline of Varu?a in Book X, which has no hymn for him (?) If he is seen in his glory in some of the Family Books, Book X registers his decline and subordination to Indra.? (Pradhan 2014:153-154) At any rate, he did decline, both in power and in moral stature: ?Varu?a, who is now second to Indra unlike in VI, VII and IV, is reduced to singing his praises (?) Varu?a of Books X and I acquires semi-demoniacal features which he did not have in the Family Books (?) the former guardian of immortality is now associated with the world of the dead (?) unlike in the early ?gveda, the [Yaju] Sa?hit?s treated Varu?a with dread? (Pradhan 2014:156). Likewise, the Varu?a-related concept of ?ta, ?righteousness?, ?world order?, ?normative succession of phases in a cycle?, ?truth?, dwindles and is more or less replaced by dharma, ?righteousness?, ?social and seasonal correctness?. This is only a partial and gradual demonization of Varu?a the Asura, nothing like the radical demonization of Indra the Da?va. But that is commensurate with the fleeting Paurava war psychology as against the deep grudge the ?navas bore after their defeat. 4.4. Who the enemies were not None of the names or nicknames associated with the Ten Kings, their tribes or their religion is attested in Dravidian, Munda, Burushaski, Nahali, Tibetan or any other nearby language. Most of them, by contrast, are completely transparent as Iranian names. Similarly, their stated religious identification points to the Mazdean tradition. Yet, quite a few translators and students of the Vedas insist that they are the ?black aboriginals?. The first reason is that those targeted by Vasi??ha are m?dhrav?c (RV 7:6:3), ?babblers defective in speech? (Wilson), ?rudely-speaking? (Griffith), ?wrongly speaking? (?misredend?, Geldner), or ?of disdainful words? (Jamison and Brereton). This is not normally said of people speaking a foreign language, but of people who are comprehensible yet don?t use the accent or the sociolinguistic register we are used to. Still it is popularly thought that this refers to foreigners, the way the European settlers in America considered the Amerindians alien. The second reason is the frequent use of the word ?black? as referring to the enemies, notably Vasi??ha?s enemies: the asikni vi?a, ?the black tribe? (7:5:3). But the use of ?black? is not as pregnant with sinister racist implications as if often made out. Hock (1999) shows that this is but an application of a universal symbolism relating whiteness or lightness to what is good or friendly, and darkness or blackness to what is threatening, inimical or evil. In the writer?s country, Belgium, collaborators with the German occupier during World War II were called Blacks (?zwarten?), resistance fighters Whites (?witten?). Colour symbolism in India has many applications unrelated to race, e.g. the ?white? and the ?black? Yajur-Veda are merely the well-ordered and transparent c.q. the miscellaneous and labyrinthine parts. Moreover, in Vasi??ha?s case we are probably dealing with a pun, a double-entendre: asikni means ?black?, but it is also the name of a river, Asikn?, ?the black river?, which happens to be the river whence the Ten Kings come to do battle. This is a normal type of hydronym, e.g. the Thames in England and the Demer in Belgium mean ?dark (river)? as well, both names being cognates of Sanskrit tamas, ?darkness?; just as rivers may have colour names referring to their lighter aspect, e.g. the Chinese Huanghe, ?Yellow River?. In this case, the unimaginative interpretation of this pun as indicating a black skin colour in the enemy, has been unusually consequential. The British-colonial as well as the Nazi-German narrative was that the presumed ?White Aryan conquest of India from the Black Aboriginals? illustrates the colonial and racialist view: that superior races should rule over the inferior races and that master races should preserve their purity. All this could have been avoided if the Vedic words for ?black? (asikni, k???a) had been interpreted properly. There was no racial difference between D?sas and ?ryas, and Iranians are not black. ......... Thus far. In a lighter vein, I have also argued elsewhere that the Battle of the Ten Kings was the first Indo-Pak war: https://www.academia.edu/19535381/The_Concept_of_Pakistan_in_the_Vedas Kind regards, Koenraad Elst -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From paoloe.rosati at gmail.com Fri Oct 14 20:11:29 2016 From: paoloe.rosati at gmail.com (Paolo Eugenio Rosati) Date: Fri, 14 Oct 16 22:11:29 +0200 Subject: [INDOLOGY] R: warriors v soldiers In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <58013bf1.42811c0a.b32b1.0d9e@mx.google.com> Patrick, I can say that Pallava and Cola rulers probably used Tribal people as soldiers as testified by some sculptural reliefs of "victorious Durga", where two worshippers at her sides are represented with somatic traits of Tribals---and self-cutting their heads or flesh from their thigh. I think your question is interesting. Paolo Paolo E. Rosati Oriental Archaeologist PhD candidate in Civilisations of Asia & Africa Section: South Asia Dep. Italian Institute of Oriental Studies (ISO) 'Sapienza' University of Rome paoloe.rosati at uniroma1.it paoloe.rosati at gmail.com Mobile: (+39) 3387383472 Skype: paoloe.rosati ----- Messaggio originale ----- Da: "patrick mccartney" Inviato: ?14/?10/?2016 03:30 A: "Indology List" Oggetto: [INDOLOGY] warriors v soldiers Dear Friends, Please forgive the possibly naive nature of this question, but was it the case that all warriors were considered to be of the same k?atriya class? Or, was it possible that the 'officers' were k?atriyas and the 'foot soldiers' were perhaps of a different caste, i.e. enslaved ?udras forced to fight? Is there any discussion of the militiary organisation according to ranks, size and hierarchy similar to the table below? Thanks in advance. All the best, Patrick McCartney, PhD Fellow School of Culture, History & Language College of the Asia-Pacific The Australian National University Canberra, Australia, 0200 Skype - psdmccartney Phone + Whatsapp: +61 414 954 748 Twitter - @psdmccartney academia Linkedin Edanz #yogabodyANU2016 symposium Ep1 - Imagining Sanskrit Land Ep 2 - Total-am Ep 3 - Jalam ? Chillum Ep 4 - It's Time to get Married A Day in our Ashram Stop animation short film of Shakuntala Forced to Clean Human Waste One of my favourite songs -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From nagarajpaturi at gmail.com Sat Oct 15 02:58:19 2016 From: nagarajpaturi at gmail.com (Nagaraj Paturi) Date: Sat, 15 Oct 16 08:28:19 +0530 Subject: [INDOLOGY] R: warriors v soldiers In-Reply-To: <58013bf1.42811c0a.b32b1.0d9e@mx.google.com> Message-ID: Patrick, I was able to see the table due to your offline help. I expected a community-wise classification in the table. In any case, it is common place knowledge among Indologists who studied varNa and caste systems that varNa is, to a large extent, textual and what is real is in fact caste. Kshatriya is a varNa category drawn from older Sanskritic texts and used to attribute to individuals of several different tribes and castes who took over roles similar to the ones enlisted as the dharma of the Kshatriyas in the Sanskrit texts. The roles that these tribes and castes took over range from the foot soldier to the emperor. In other words, most of the kings, emperors, soldiers, military officials of all ranks hailed from not the Kshatriya varNa but several different tribes and castes. Kshatriyization of tribes and castes, its role in the upward mobility of tribes and castes, the concept of Sachchhudras floated during medieval times to 'explain' the Brahma-Kshatriya behaviour and the Kshatriya roles of different 'S'udra' communities, etc. are all beaten track among the Indology and Indian history discussions. I shall provide you specific examples and references, depending on your purpose and question. Since it is such a beaten track, many other members of the list may also be able to help you. On Sat, Oct 15, 2016 at 1:41 AM, Paolo Eugenio Rosati < paoloe.rosati at gmail.com> wrote: > Patrick, I can say that Pallava and Cola rulers probably used Tribal > people as soldiers as testified by some sculptural reliefs of "victorious > Durga", where two worshippers at her sides are represented with somatic > traits of Tribals---and self-cutting their heads or flesh from their thigh. > I think your question is interesting. > > Paolo > > Paolo E. Rosati > Oriental Archaeologist > PhD candidate in Civilisations of Asia & Africa > Section: South Asia > Dep. Italian Institute of Oriental Studies (ISO) > 'Sapienza' University of Rome > > paoloe.rosati at uniroma1.it > paoloe.rosati at gmail.com > Mobile: (+39) 3387383472 > Skype: paoloe.rosati > ------------------------------ > Da: patrick mccartney > Inviato: ?14/?10/?2016 03:30 > A: Indology List > Oggetto: [INDOLOGY] warriors v soldiers > > Dear Friends, > > Please forgive the possibly naive nature of this question, but was it the > case that all warriors were considered to be of the same k?atriya class? > Or, was it possible that the 'officers' were k?atriyas and the 'foot > soldiers' were perhaps of a different caste, i.e. enslaved ?udras forced to > fight? Is there any discussion of the militiary organisation according to > ranks, size and hierarchy similar to the table below? > > Thanks in advance. > > [image: Inline image 1] > > All the best, > > Patrick McCartney, PhD > Fellow > School of Culture, History & Language > College of the Asia-Pacific > The Australian National University > Canberra, Australia, 0200 > > > Skype - psdmccartney > Phone + Whatsapp: +61 414 954 748 > Twitter - @psdmccartney > > > academia > > - > > Linkedin > > > Edanz > > #yogabodyANU2016 symposium > > > Ep1 - Imagining Sanskrit Land > > Ep 2 - Total-am > > Ep 3 - Jalam ? Chillum > > Ep 4 - It's Time to get Married > > > A Day in our Ashram > > > Stop animation short film of Shakuntala > > > Forced to Clean Human Waste > > One of my favourite song > s > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing > committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or > unsubscribe) > -- Nagaraj Paturi Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA. Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of Liberal Education, (Pune, Maharashtra, INDIA ) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Palaniappa at aol.com Sat Oct 15 03:13:30 2016 From: Palaniappa at aol.com (Sudalaimuthu Palaniappan) Date: Fri, 14 Oct 16 22:13:30 -0500 Subject: [INDOLOGY] warriors v soldiers In-Reply-To: <58013bf1.42811c0a.b32b1.0d9e@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <23D0CC80-9DE4-45AF-B569-05A4E208B1FE@aol.com> Dear Dr. Rosati, Can you elaborate as to what the somatic traits of Tribals are? Thanks Regards, Palaniappan > On Oct 14, 2016, at 3:11 PM, Paolo Eugenio Rosati wrote: > > Patrick, I can say that Pallava and Cola rulers probably used Tribal people as soldiers as testified by some sculptural reliefs of "victorious Durga", where two worshippers at her sides are represented with somatic traits of Tribals---and self-cutting their heads or flesh from their thigh. I think your question is interesting. > > Paolo > > Paolo E. Rosati > Oriental Archaeologist > PhD candidate in Civilisations of Asia & Africa > Section: South Asia > Dep. Italian Institute of Oriental Studies (ISO) > 'Sapienza' University of Rome > > paoloe.rosati at uniroma1.it > paoloe.rosati at gmail.com > Mobile: (+39) 3387383472 > Skype: paoloe.rosati > Da: patrick mccartney > Inviato: ?14/?10/?2016 03:30 > A: Indology List > Oggetto: [INDOLOGY] warriors v soldiers > > Dear Friends, > > Please forgive the possibly naive nature of this question, but was it the case that all warriors were considered to be of the same k?atriya class? Or, was it possible that the 'officers' were k?atriyas and the 'foot soldiers' were perhaps of a different caste, i.e. enslaved ?udras forced to fight? Is there any discussion of the militiary organisation according to ranks, size and hierarchy similar to the table below? > > Thanks in advance. > > > > All the best, > > Patrick McCartney, PhD > Fellow > School of Culture, History & Language > College of the Asia-Pacific > The Australian National University > Canberra, Australia, 0200 > > > Skype - psdmccartney > Phone + Whatsapp: +61 414 954 748 > Twitter - @psdmccartney > > > academia > Linkedin > > Edanz > > #yogabodyANU2016 symposium ? > > Ep1 - Imagining Sanskrit Land > > Ep 2 - Total-am > > Ep 3 - Jalam ? Chillum > > Ep 4 - It's Time to get Married > > A Day in our Ashram > > Stop animation short film of Shakuntala? > > Forced to Clean Human Waste > > One of my favourite song s > > > > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From paoloe.rosati at gmail.com Sat Oct 15 09:02:53 2016 From: paoloe.rosati at gmail.com (Paolo Eugenio Rosati) Date: Sat, 15 Oct 16 11:02:53 +0200 Subject: [INDOLOGY] warriors v soldiers In-Reply-To: <23D0CC80-9DE4-45AF-B569-05A4E208B1FE@aol.com> Message-ID: Dear prof./dear all, Just before that thousands people sand me protests against the use of "Tribal" from the Oxford dictionary (on-line): Tribe = A social division in a traditional society consisting of families or communities linked by social, economic, religious, or blood ties, with a common culture and dialect, typically having a recognized leader. I do not find nothing negative in the noun "tribe" neither in the adj "Tribal" that I'm used to write with capital letter as Hindu. I find more appropriate to speak of Tribal than to use the generic "local/atochthonous"---that do not imply any cultural or religios tradition---or the negative NON-describers as "non-Aryan/non-Sanskrit/non-Hindu/non-literary".The Tribal groups ARE, and in my opinion is more denigratory describe their culture as non-SOMETHING. I prefer to be a Tribal than a non-Aryan, I prefer to have an oral tradition than to have a non-written tradition, and so on. They are, their culture existed and still exists; and they influenced so deeply the mainstream Hinduism (and not only the Tantric phnemoena) that I'm wondering how it is possible to associate the word "Tribal" with negative connotations. Going back to the problem. J.C. Harle [(1963) "Durga Goddess of Victory" *Artibus Asiae 26* (3/4): 237-46] wrote: *On the worshipping figures in the DurgA images, those at Pullamangai are carved in the greates detail, and a good deal can be discerned of their physiognomies and costume (fig. 4). Each has a curious mask-like face in which the eyes appear as narrow slits, and wears his hair in a kind of top-knot; the figure on the right has, in addition, a mustache and a close-cropped beard. Both wear scabbards hanging from the waist on the right side, and a garment which (where it can be seen) comes to a point in front between the legs. They are both naked above the waists and wear* suvarna vaikakshakas *(or *channa viras*),* *not sacred cords. It is worth nothing that in the* ShilapaddikAram *the Marvar*, *or at least the elders, are said to wear moustaches while in another work a beared "Marravan" leader is mentioned. Wheater or not, however, the beared man in the Pullamangai image may represent forest or desert people like Maravar, or else a member of some particular caste or comunity, too little is known about costume and physical types in Pallava and Cola times to be able to say.* (pp. 245-6) Thus even if it is uncertain the identification with Tribals, in my opinion (and I would like to have the right to guess, as most will guess that the two worshippers are not-Tribals) they are Tribals. Furthermore, M. Tartakov and V. Dehejia (1984) "Sharing, Intrusion, and Influences: The Mahishasuramardini Imagery of the Calukyas and the Pallavas" *Artibus Asiae 45* (4) 287-345, particularly see pp.329-30 and 340. They seems to share the original idea of Harle that the devotees were not Hindus (and I'm not speaking of Indo-Aryan or Aryan). I wish I clarify my position on the use of "Tribal" and explained better what I means when I used "somatic traits". Best, Paolo On 15 October 2016 at 05:13, Sudalaimuthu Palaniappan wrote: > Dear Dr. Rosati, > > Can you elaborate as to what the somatic traits of Tribals are? > > Thanks > > Regards, > Palaniappan > > > On Oct 14, 2016, at 3:11 PM, Paolo Eugenio Rosati > wrote: > > Patrick, I can say that Pallava and Cola rulers probably used Tribal > people as soldiers as testified by some sculptural reliefs of "victorious > Durga", where two worshippers at her sides are represented with somatic > traits of Tribals---and self-cutting their heads or flesh from their thigh. > I think your question is interesting. > > Paolo > > Paolo E. Rosati > Oriental Archaeologist > PhD candidate in Civilisations of Asia & Africa > Section: South Asia > Dep. Italian Institute of Oriental Studies (ISO) > 'Sapienza' University of Rome > > paoloe.rosati at uniroma1.it > paoloe.rosati at gmail.com > Mobile: (+39) 3387383472 > Skype: paoloe.rosati > ------------------------------ > Da: patrick mccartney > Inviato: ?14/?10/?2016 03:30 > A: Indology List > Oggetto: [INDOLOGY] warriors v soldiers > > Dear Friends, > > Please forgive the possibly naive nature of this question, but was it the > case that all warriors were considered to be of the same k?atriya class? > Or, was it possible that the 'officers' were k?atriyas and the 'foot > soldiers' were perhaps of a different caste, i.e. enslaved ?udras forced to > fight? Is there any discussion of the militiary organisation according to > ranks, size and hierarchy similar to the table below? > > Thanks in advance. > > > All the best, > > Patrick McCartney, PhD > Fellow > School of Culture, History & Language > College of the Asia-Pacific > The Australian National University > Canberra, Australia, 0200 > > > Skype - psdmccartney > Phone + Whatsapp: +61 414 954 748 > Twitter - @psdmccartney > > > academia > > - > > Linkedin > > > Edanz > > #yogabodyANU2016 symposium > > > Ep1 - Imagining Sanskrit Land > > Ep 2 - Total-am > > Ep 3 - Jalam ? Chillum > > Ep 4 - It's Time to get Married > > > A Day in our Ashram > > > Stop animation short film of Shakuntala > > > Forced to Clean Human Waste > > One of my favourite song > s > > > > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing > committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or > unsubscribe) > > > -- Paolo E. Rosati Oriental Archaeologist PhD candidate in "Civilizations of Asia and Africa" South Asia Section Dep. Italian Institute of Oriental Studies/ISO 'Sapienza' University of Rome *https://uniroma1.academia.edu/PaoloRosati/ * paoloe.rosati at uniroma1.it paoloe.rosati at gmail.com Skype: paoloe.rosati Mobile: (+39) 338 73 83 472 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From georges.pinault at wanadoo.fr Sat Oct 15 17:28:34 2016 From: georges.pinault at wanadoo.fr (Georges PINAULT) Date: Sat, 15 Oct 16 19:28:34 +0200 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Request Message-ID: <745938097.7875.1476552514122.JavaMail.www@wwinf1f36> Dear Colleagues,?? Can anyone of you provide me with a pdf copy of the paper of H.P. Schmidt, Notes on Rgveda 7.18.3-10, published in India. Organ of the Heras Institute of Indian History and Culture (Bombay) 17, 1980, p. 41-47???Many thanks in advance. Best regards,??? Georges-Jean Pinault -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From andrew.nicholson at stonybrook.edu Sat Oct 15 19:23:55 2016 From: andrew.nicholson at stonybrook.edu (Andrew Nicholson) Date: Sat, 15 Oct 16 15:23:55 -0400 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Crypto-Hindu and crypto-Buddhist Message-ID: Dear Bill, Not only did the Vi?i???dvaitins and others refer to Advaita Ved?ntins as crypto-Buddhists; in his ?atad??a??, Ved?nta De?ika also labelled the Bhed?bheda Ved?ntin Bh?skara as a "Ved?ntin who smells like a Jain" ( *jainagandhived?ntin*). I have never seen a similar term in the premodern literature for a "crypto-Hindu." Might we find similar epithets in Jain intra-religious polemics (perhaps a *ved?ntigandhijaina*)? Andrew Andrew J. Nicholson Associate Professor Graduate Studies Director Asian & Asian American Studies Stony Brook University Stony Brook, NY 11794-5343 USA (631) 632-4030 http://philosophicalrasika.com/ > On Fri, Oct 14, 2016 at 8:28 PM, Matthew Kapstein > wrote: > >> Hi Bill, >> >> The "crypto-Buddhist" charge against ?a?kara is, I think, inspired by >> RamAnuja's >> (at least, I recall it as RamAnuja's) castigation of him as >> prachanna-bauddha, for >> which crypto-Buddhist is fair enough as a translation. I don't think that >> we find >> a similar emic notion of "crypto-Hindu," though there are some Buddhist >> polemics >> I know that may suggest this. Tibetan critics of Dol-po-pa's theory of >> "extrinsic >> emptiness" (Gzhan-stong), for instance, often condemn it as disguised >> sAMkhya or vedAnta, >> but I doubt that Ritzinger or Hodge had this in mind. >> >> best, >> Matthew >> >> Matthew Kapstein >> Directeur d'?tudes, >> Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes >> >> Numata Visiting Professor of Buddhist Studies, >> The University of Chicago >> ------------------------------ >> >> > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From martin.gansten at pbhome.se Sat Oct 15 19:51:55 2016 From: martin.gansten at pbhome.se (Martin Gansten) Date: Sat, 15 Oct 16 21:51:55 +0200 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Crypto-Hindu and crypto-Buddhist In-Reply-To: Message-ID: For completeness, I may add that I have heard Advaitins refer to M?dhvas as /pracchanna-naiy?yika/. No textual reference, though. Martin Gansten Den 2016-10-15 kl. 21:23, skrev Andrew Nicholson: > Dear Bill, > > Not only did the Vi?i???dvaitins and others refer to Advaita Ved?ntins > as crypto-Buddhists; in his ?atad??a??, Ved?nta De?ika also labelled > the Bhed?bheda Ved?ntin Bh?skara as a "Ved?ntin who smells like a > Jain" (/jainagandhived?ntin/). > > I have never seen a similar term in the premodern literature for a > "crypto-Hindu." Might we find similar epithets in Jain intra-religious > polemics (perhaps a /ved?ntigandhijaina/)? > > Andrew > > Andrew J. Nicholson > Associate Professor > Graduate Studies Director > Asian & Asian American Studies > Stony Brook University > Stony Brook, NY 11794-5343 USA > (631) 632-4030 > http://philosophicalrasika.com/ > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From nmisra at gmail.com Sat Oct 15 19:57:47 2016 From: nmisra at gmail.com (Nityanand Misra) Date: Sun, 16 Oct 16 01:27:47 +0530 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Crypto-Hindu and crypto-Buddhist In-Reply-To: <82C3E42590D939418C74DD76B97DDED047BCC266@xm-mbx-06-prod> Message-ID: Before R?m?nuja, it was Bh?skara who referred to *m?y?-v?din*-s as *bauddha-mat?valambin. *Please see Chapter XV (The Bh?skara School of Philosophy) in A History of Indian Philosophy (Volume 3), where Dasgupta writes Quote Thus, at the very beginning of his commentary, he says that it aims at refuting those who, hiding the real sense of the *s?tra*, have only expressed their own opinions, and in other places also he speaks in very strong terms against the commentator who holds the m?y? doctrine and is a Buddhist in his views[3]. [3] *s?tr?-bhipr?ya-sa?v?ty? sv?bhipr?y?-prak??an?t, vy?khy?ta? yair idam ??stra? vy?khyeya? tan-niv?ttaye*. Bh?skara?s Commentary, p. i. Also ?*ye tu bauddha-mat?valambino m?y?-v?dinas te?pi anena ny?yena s?tra-k?re?ai?va nirast??*.? Ibid. II. 2. 29. In another place ?a?kara is referred to as explaining views which were really propounded by the Mah?y?na Buddhists?*vig?ta? vicchinna-m?la? m?h?y?nika-bauddha-g?thita? m?y?-v?da? vy?var?ayanto lok?n vy?mohayanti*. Ibid. 1. 4. 25. Unquote The chapter is available under http://www.wisdomlib.org/hinduism/book/a-history-of-indian-philosophy-volume-3/d/doc7601.html On 14 October 2016 at 20:28, Matthew Kapstein wrote: > Hi Bill, > > The "crypto-Buddhist" charge against ?a?kara is, I think, inspired by > RamAnuja's > (at least, I recall it as RamAnuja's) castigation of him as > prachanna-bauddha, for > which crypto-Buddhist is fair enough as a translation. I don't think that > we find > a similar emic notion of "crypto-Hindu," though there are some Buddhist > polemics > I know that may suggest this. Tibetan critics of Dol-po-pa's theory of > "extrinsic > emptiness" (Gzhan-stong), for instance, often condemn it as disguised > sAMkhya or vedAnta, > but I doubt that Ritzinger or Hodge had this in mind. > > best, > Matthew > > Matthew Kapstein > Directeur d'?tudes, > Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes > > Numata Visiting Professor of Buddhist Studies, > The University of Chicago > ------------------------------ > > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing > committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or > unsubscribe) > -- Nity?nanda Mi?ra http://nmisra.googlepages.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From nagarajpaturi at gmail.com Sun Oct 16 02:40:18 2016 From: nagarajpaturi at gmail.com (Nagaraj Paturi) Date: Sun, 16 Oct 16 08:10:18 +0530 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Crypto-Hindu and crypto-Buddhist In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Interestingly, Buddha himself is considered as Vishnu in disguise in the 'Hindu' books which enlist Buddha as one of the avatAras of Vishnu. On Sun, Oct 16, 2016 at 1:27 AM, Nityanand Misra wrote: > Before R?m?nuja, it was Bh?skara who referred to *m?y?-v?din*-s as > *bauddha-mat?valambin. *Please see Chapter XV (The Bh?skara School of > Philosophy) in A History of Indian Philosophy (Volume 3), where Dasgupta > writes > > Quote > Thus, at the very beginning of his commentary, he says that it aims at > refuting those who, hiding the real sense of the *s?tra*, have only > expressed their own opinions, and in other places also he speaks in very > strong terms against the commentator who holds the m?y? doctrine and is a > Buddhist in his views[3]. > [3] *s?tr?-bhipr?ya-sa?v?ty? sv?bhipr?y?-prak??an?t, vy?khy?ta? yair idam > ??stra? vy?khyeya? tan-niv?ttaye*. Bh?skara?s Commentary, p. i. > Also ?*ye tu bauddha-mat?valambino m?y?-v?dinas te?pi anena ny?yena > s?tra-k?re?ai?va nirast??*.? Ibid. II. 2. 29. > In another place ?a?kara is referred to as explaining views which were > really propounded by the Mah?y?na Buddhists?*vig?ta? vicchinna-m?la? > m?h?y?nika-bauddha-g?thita? m?y?-v?da? vy?var?ayanto lok?n vy?mohayanti*. > Ibid. 1. 4. 25. > Unquote > > The chapter is available under http://www.wisdomlib.org/ > hinduism/book/a-history-of-indian-philosophy-volume-3/d/doc7601.html > > > On 14 October 2016 at 20:28, Matthew Kapstein > wrote: > >> Hi Bill, >> >> The "crypto-Buddhist" charge against ?a?kara is, I think, inspired by >> RamAnuja's >> (at least, I recall it as RamAnuja's) castigation of him as >> prachanna-bauddha, for >> which crypto-Buddhist is fair enough as a translation. I don't think that >> we find >> a similar emic notion of "crypto-Hindu," though there are some Buddhist >> polemics >> I know that may suggest this. Tibetan critics of Dol-po-pa's theory of >> "extrinsic >> emptiness" (Gzhan-stong), for instance, often condemn it as disguised >> sAMkhya or vedAnta, >> but I doubt that Ritzinger or Hodge had this in mind. >> >> best, >> Matthew >> >> Matthew Kapstein >> Directeur d'?tudes, >> Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes >> >> Numata Visiting Professor of Buddhist Studies, >> The University of Chicago >> ------------------------------ >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> INDOLOGY mailing list >> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info >> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing >> committee) >> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or >> unsubscribe) >> > > > > -- > Nity?nanda Mi?ra > http://nmisra.googlepages.com > > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing > committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or > unsubscribe) > -- Nagaraj Paturi Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA. Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of Liberal Education, (Pune, Maharashtra, INDIA ) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tylerwwilliams at gmail.com Sun Oct 16 17:53:24 2016 From: tylerwwilliams at gmail.com (Tyler Williams) Date: Sun, 16 Oct 16 12:53:24 -0500 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Roundtable on Sexual Harassment in the field of South Asian Studies: A community discussion Message-ID: Dear colleagues, Apropos earlier discussions on the list, some might be interested in attending the following roundtable at the Annual Conference on South Asia at Madison, which is taking place this coming week. Best, TWW Roundtable on Sexual Harassment in the field of South Asian Studies: A community discussion Roundtable Location Session: Session 2: Friday, 10:30 AM - 12:15 PM Room: Capitol Ballroom A Floor: Floor 2 Chair Christine Garlough - conference at southasia.wisc.edu Abstract The aim of the roundtable is to encourage our scholarly community to talk about the issue of sexual harassment *among scholars in our field* openly and explicitly. We are eager to keep the discussion focused on the issue of sexual harassment faced by students and scholars, and not to move too far into the topic of sexual harassment as a subject studied by scholars (but not among scholars). ________________________________ Presenter 1 Anjali Arondekar Presenter 2 Krupa Shandilya Presenter 3 Susan Wadley Presenter 4 Rachel Berger Presenter 5 David Blom -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From nmisra at gmail.com Sun Oct 16 19:03:04 2016 From: nmisra at gmail.com (Nityanand Misra) Date: Mon, 17 Oct 16 00:33:04 +0530 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Questions on two citations from Monier-Williams Sanskrit English Dictionary Message-ID: Citation 1: [L=238711 ] *sarvavid* f. the sacred syllable Om L. Firstly, the gender appears to be suspicious. Most names for monosyllable Om that I have come across are either masculine (pra?ava?, o?k?ra?, udg?tha? , etc.) or neuter (ek?k?aram, brahm?k?aram, etc). Anyway, my question is that which lexicon (the abbreviation L.= Lexicographers, esp. such as ???????, ??????, ?????????, &c.) gives the meaning of Om for the word ?sarvavid?? Citation 2: [L=175517 ] *rasa* N. of the sacred syllable, ?Om,? S3a1n3khGr2. Where in ????????-?????-????? is the word ?rasa? used for Om? I searched in the digital version of Bloomfield?s Concordance but did not find it. -- Nity?nanda Mi?ra http://nmisra.googlepages.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tylerwwilliams at gmail.com Sun Oct 16 22:27:44 2016 From: tylerwwilliams at gmail.com (Tyler Williams) Date: Sun, 16 Oct 16 17:27:44 -0500 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Hindi/Marathi transliteration In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Dear Harry, Yes, although not consistently, in Hindi. The same is true of Hindi texts in Devanagari-- some editors hyphenate compounds while others do not; some separate the roots while others leave them graphically joined. In both cases, this is largely due to confusion about what terms are compounds and which are not. (A bigger problem for premodern than modern Hindi.) Best, TWW On Thu, Oct 13, 2016 at 11:05 PM, Harry Spier wrote: > Dear list members, > > I've been asked this question to which I don't know the answer. In the > transliteration of Hindi or Marathi are dashes usually placed between stems > of compounds as is sometimes done in transliterating sanskrit. > > Thanks, > Harry Spier > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing > committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or > unsubscribe) > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jwn3y at eservices.virginia.edu Sun Oct 16 23:40:06 2016 From: jwn3y at eservices.virginia.edu (Nemec, John William (nemec) (jwn3y)) Date: Sun, 16 Oct 16 23:40:06 +0000 Subject: [INDOLOGY] R: warriors v soldiers In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Dear Patrick, and All, Ca???las are said to have served as perimeter guardians of the army of the famed king Jay?p??a, as attested in Kalha?a's _R?jatara?gi??_ (at RT 4.516). Not all who would have fought were k?atriya-s. John ________________________________ From: INDOLOGY [indology-bounces at list.indology.info] on behalf of Nagaraj Paturi [nagarajpaturi at gmail.com] Sent: Friday, October 14, 2016 10:59 PM To: Paolo Eugenio Rosati Cc: Indology List Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] R: warriors v soldiers Patrick, I was able to see the table due to your offline help. I expected a community-wise classification in the table. In any case, it is common place knowledge among Indologists who studied varNa and caste systems that varNa is, to a large extent, textual and what is real is in fact caste. Kshatriya is a varNa category drawn from older Sanskritic texts and used to attribute to individuals of several different tribes and castes who took over roles similar to the ones enlisted as the dharma of the Kshatriyas in the Sanskrit texts. The roles that these tribes and castes took over range from the foot soldier to the emperor. In other words, most of the kings, emperors, soldiers, military officials of all ranks hailed from not the Kshatriya varNa but several different tribes and castes. Kshatriyization of tribes and castes, its role in the upward mobility of tribes and castes, the concept of Sachchhudras floated during medieval times to 'explain' the Brahma-Kshatriya behaviour and the Kshatriya roles of different 'S'udra' communities, etc. are all beaten track among the Indology and Indian history discussions. I shall provide you specific examples and references, depending on your purpose and question. Since it is such a beaten track, many other members of the list may also be able to help you. On Sat, Oct 15, 2016 at 1:41 AM, Paolo Eugenio Rosati > wrote: Patrick, I can say that Pallava and Cola rulers probably used Tribal people as soldiers as testified by some sculptural reliefs of "victorious Durga", where two worshippers at her sides are represented with somatic traits of Tribals---and self-cutting their heads or flesh from their thigh. I think your question is interesting. Paolo Paolo E. Rosati Oriental Archaeologist PhD candidate in Civilisations of Asia & Africa Section: South Asia Dep. Italian Institute of Oriental Studies (ISO) 'Sapienza' University of Rome paoloe.rosati at uniroma1.it paoloe.rosati at gmail.com Mobile: (+39) 3387383472 Skype: paoloe.rosati ________________________________ Da: patrick mccartney Inviato: ?14/?10/?2016 03:30 A: Indology List Oggetto: [INDOLOGY] warriors v soldiers Dear Friends, Please forgive the possibly naive nature of this question, but was it the case that all warriors were considered to be of the same k?atriya class? Or, was it possible that the 'officers' were k?atriyas and the 'foot soldiers' were perhaps of a different caste, i.e. enslaved ?udras forced to fight? Is there any discussion of the militiary organisation according to ranks, size and hierarchy similar to the table below? Thanks in advance. [Inline image 1] All the best, Patrick McCartney, PhD Fellow School of Culture, History & Language College of the Asia-Pacific The Australian National University Canberra, Australia, 0200 Skype - psdmccartney Phone + Whatsapp: +61 414 954 748 Twitter - @psdmccartney academia * Linkedin Edanz #yogabodyANU2016 symposium Ep1 - Imagining Sanskrit Land Ep 2 - Total-am Ep 3 - Jalam ? Chillum Ep 4 - It's Time to get Married A Day in our Ashram Stop animation short film of Shakuntala Forced to Clean Human Waste One of my favourite songs _______________________________________________ INDOLOGY mailing list INDOLOGY at list.indology.info indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) -- Nagaraj Paturi Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA. Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of Liberal Education, (Pune, Maharashtra, INDIA ) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From steiner at staff.uni-marburg.de Mon Oct 17 08:12:10 2016 From: steiner at staff.uni-marburg.de (Roland Steiner) Date: Mon, 17 Oct 16 10:12:10 +0200 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Questions on two citations from Monier-Williams Sanskrit English Dictionary In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20161017101210.Horde.39aGsXRORQlNbosIUqH1cse@home.staff.uni-marburg.de> > Citation 2: [L=175517[1]]?RASA?N. of the sacred syllable, ?Om,? S3a1n3khGr2. > > Where in?????????-?????-??????is the word ?rasa? used for Om? I > searched in the digital version of Bloomfield?s Concordance but did > not find it. Compare the following entry in Otto B?htlingk's "Sanskrit-W?rterbuch in k?rzerer Fassung", s.v. rasa [5-173[2]] 1)? y) "Bez. der heiligen Silbe om ???kh. G?hy. 2,13". (refers to the edition by Hermann Oldenberg published in Albrecht Weber's "Indische Studien" vol. 15, 1878; for a digital version, see https://archive.org/details/indischestudien00unkngoog ; you will find the relevant textual passage on p. 62: v?ru?ya 'rc? rasena v?; German translation: p. 63: "mit einem Varu?averse oder dem Saft(-spruch Om)"; note: p. 141: "[...] ved?n?? rasabh?tena pra?avena"). Best wishes, Roland Steiner Links: ------ [1] http://www.sanskrit-lexicon.uni-koeln.de/cgi-bin/monier/serveimg.pl?file=/scans/MWScan/MWScanjpg/mw0869-ravaNaka.jpg [2] http://www.sanskrit-lexicon.uni-koeln.de/scans/PWScan/disp2/serveimg.php?filepfx=5-173 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From audrey.truschke at gmail.com Mon Oct 17 12:06:29 2016 From: audrey.truschke at gmail.com (Audrey Truschke) Date: Mon, 17 Oct 16 08:06:29 -0400 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Obituary notice for Prof. K. Mahadeva Sastri Message-ID: Dear Colleagues, I am forwarding the attached obituary notice of Prof Korada Mahadeva Sastri, renowned linguist and Prof of Telugu, at the request of his son, Dr. K. Suryanarayana. Audrey Truschke (INDOLOGY committee member on duty) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From arlogriffiths at hotmail.com Mon Oct 17 12:46:37 2016 From: arlogriffiths at hotmail.com (Arlo Griffiths) Date: Mon, 17 Oct 16 12:46:37 +0000 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Call for papers - 'Rediscovering Telangana-An International Seminar on the recent trends in Archaeology, Art' Message-ID: Forwarding the attached call for papers. Arlo Griffiths ?cole fran?aise d'Extr?me-Orient -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Roll.pdf Type: application/pdf Size: 588473 bytes Desc: not available URL: From audrey.truschke at gmail.com Mon Oct 17 12:58:29 2016 From: audrey.truschke at gmail.com (Audrey Truschke) Date: Mon, 17 Oct 16 08:58:29 -0400 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Obituary notice for Prof. K. Mahadeva Sastri In-Reply-To: Message-ID: The attachment did not go through for some the first time. Attached here. Audrey Truschke Assistant Professor Department of History Rutgers University-Newark On Mon, Oct 17, 2016 at 8:06 AM, Audrey Truschke wrote: > Dear Colleagues, > > I am forwarding the attached obituary notice of Prof Korada Mahadeva > Sastri, renowned linguist and Prof of Telugu, at the request of his son, > Dr. K. Suryanarayana. > > Audrey Truschke (INDOLOGY committee member on duty) > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From audrey.truschke at gmail.com Mon Oct 17 14:41:04 2016 From: audrey.truschke at gmail.com (Audrey Truschke) Date: Mon, 17 Oct 16 10:41:04 -0400 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Obituary notice for Prof. K. Mahadeva Sastri In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Dear All, Some still can't see the attachment. My apologies. Here's the text: Dear indologists, I inform with a heavy heart the sudden demise of my father Prof.Korada Mahadeva Sastri, Professor of Telugu and renowned linguist at Tirupati on 11th October. The last rites (10th,11th, 12th day) will be conducted at Anantapur. Brief bio-data of Prof Mahadeva Sastri : Born in 1921 at Machilipatnam, he is a triple Post Graduate, one in Economics, the second in Comparative Philology and the third in Telugu. He obtained his D. Litt in 1961 for his thesis on ?Historical Grammar of Telugu? under the guidance of Dr. Suniti Kumar Chatterjee, renowned Linguist, Calcutta University. He started his career as lecturer in the Linguistics dept., Annamalai Univ. and later in the Telugu dept of Sri Venkateswara Univ. and as was Professor at Sri Krishnadevaraya Univ, Anantapur, Andhra Pradesh. He was Visiting Professor at the Institute of Indology, Koln University, Germany during 1976-78. He was one of the founder members of International School of Dravidian Linguistics, Trivendrum. His major works : 1. Historical Grammar of Telugu, pub by S.V.University, Tirupati,1964 2. Descriptive Grammar and Handbook of Modern Telugu, pub. by Franz Steiner Verlag, Germany, (2) ?Andhra Vangmaya Parichayamu,? an introduction to Telugu Literature with the best specimens of Telugu Poetry (4) ?Bala Praudha Vyakarana Dipika,? a commentary on the traditional Telugu Grammar with a philological background and (5) ?Telugu Vyutpatti Nighantuvu,? an etymological dictionary of native Telugu, pub by Dravid Univ. Kuppam and (6) Bhasha-samskruti, collected papers on Telugu language and literature. Some of his Research papers : 1 Intensive and Inclusive Compounds in Telugu, 2 A Folk Tale in Western Bhojpuri, 3 Language of the Telugu Inscriptions of the 12th and 13th centuries, 4 Development of Verbal Forms in Modern Telugu, 5 Vedic and Classical Sanskrit, 6 Spontaneous Aspirations in Telugu, 7 Prakrit Inscriptions in Buddhist Andhra and 8 Sound Symbolism in Telugu. Audrey Truschke Assistant Professor Department of History Rutgers University-Newark On Mon, Oct 17, 2016 at 8:58 AM, Audrey Truschke wrote: > The attachment did not go through for some the first time. Attached here. > > Audrey Truschke > Assistant Professor > Department of History > Rutgers University-Newark > > On Mon, Oct 17, 2016 at 8:06 AM, Audrey Truschke < > audrey.truschke at gmail.com> wrote: > >> Dear Colleagues, >> >> I am forwarding the attached obituary notice of Prof Korada Mahadeva >> Sastri, renowned linguist and Prof of Telugu, at the request of his son, >> Dr. K. Suryanarayana. >> >> Audrey Truschke (INDOLOGY committee member on duty) >> >> > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From nmisra at gmail.com Mon Oct 17 15:09:46 2016 From: nmisra at gmail.com (Nityanand Misra) Date: Mon, 17 Oct 16 20:39:46 +0530 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Questions on two citations from Monier-Williams Sanskrit English Dictionary In-Reply-To: <20161017101210.Horde.39aGsXRORQlNbosIUqH1cse@home.staff.uni-marburg.de> Message-ID: On 17 October 2016 at 13:42, Roland Steiner wrote: > Citation 2: [L=175517 > > ] *rasa* N. of the sacred syllable, ?Om,? S3a1n3khGr2. > > Where in ????????-?????-????? is the word ?rasa? used for Om? I searched > in the digital version of Bloomfield?s Concordance but did not find it. > > Compare the following entry in Otto B?htlingk's "Sanskrit-W?rterbuch in > k?rzerer Fassung", s.v. rasa [5-173 > ] > 1) y) "Bez. der heiligen Silbe om ???kh. G?hy. 2,13". (refers to the > edition by Hermann Oldenberg published in Albrecht Weber's "Indische > Studien" vol. 15, 1878; for a digital version, see > https://archive.org/details/indischestudien00unkngoog ; you will find the > relevant textual passage on p. 62: v?ru?ya 'rc? rasena v?; German > translation: p. 63: "mit einem Varu?averse oder dem Saft(-spruch Om)"; > note: p. 141: "[...] ved?n?? rasabh?tena pra?avena"). > > Thanks a lot for this. I had seen the meanings of *rasa* listed in *B?htlingk and Roth Grosses Petersburger W?rterbuch* (where I did not find any reference to *???kh?yana G?hya S?tra*), but not in *B?htlingk Sanskrit-W?rterbuch in k?rzerer Fassung*. It is useful to know that it is N?r?ya?a?s (N.) commentary that interprets *rasa* as *pra?ava*. Is a digital edition of this commentary available? My search on archive, scribd, and DLI drew a blank. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From hhhock at illinois.edu Mon Oct 17 15:24:49 2016 From: hhhock at illinois.edu (Hock, Hans Henrich) Date: Mon, 17 Oct 16 15:24:49 +0000 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Questions on two citations from Monier-Williams Sanskrit English Dictionary In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Dear Colleagues, It would also be useful to look at ChU 1.1 on the udg?tha and om and the identification of the udg?tha/om as the rasa of all rasas. All the best, Hans Henrich Hock On 17 Oct 2016, at 10:09, Nityanand Misra > wrote: On 17 October 2016 at 13:42, Roland Steiner > wrote: Citation 2: [L=175517] rasa N. of the sacred syllable, ?Om,? S3a1n3khGr2. Where in ????????-?????-????? is the word ?rasa? used for Om? I searched in the digital version of Bloomfield?s Concordance but did not find it. Compare the following entry in Otto B?htlingk's "Sanskrit-W?rterbuch in k?rzerer Fassung", s.v. rasa [5-173] 1) y) "Bez. der heiligen Silbe om ???kh. G?hy. 2,13". (refers to the edition by Hermann Oldenberg published in Albrecht Weber's "Indische Studien" vol. 15, 1878; for a digital version, see https://archive.org/details/indischestudien00unkngoog ; you will find the relevant textual passage on p. 62: v?ru?ya 'rc? rasena v?; German translation: p. 63: "mit einem Varu?averse oder dem Saft(-spruch Om)"; note: p. 141: "[...] ved?n?? rasabh?tena pra?avena"). Thanks a lot for this. I had seen the meanings of rasa listed in B?htlingk and Roth Grosses Petersburger W?rterbuch (where I did not find any reference to ???kh?yana G?hya S?tra), but not in B?htlingk Sanskrit-W?rterbuch in k?rzerer Fassung. It is useful to know that it is N?r?ya?a?s (N.) commentary that interprets rasa as pra?ava. Is a digital edition of this commentary available? My search on archive, scribd, and DLI drew a blank. _______________________________________________ INDOLOGY mailing list INDOLOGY at list.indology.info indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From karp at uw.edu.pl Mon Oct 17 17:18:10 2016 From: karp at uw.edu.pl (Artur Karp) Date: Mon, 17 Oct 16 19:18:10 +0200 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Sexual Harassment In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Dear All, Should I understand that there are no traces, no mentions of sexual harrasment in the entire - vast - corpus of ancient/medieval Indian literature? My thanks to Nagaraj Paturi - for his hint re. Artur Karp (ret) Uniwersytet Warszawski Polska 2016-10-07 20:16 GMT+02:00 Nagaraj Paturi : > I guess studies focussed on Draupadi's disrobing or Draupadi's harassment > by Keechaka must have dealt with the issue of sexual harassment, though I > do not have a ready bibliography. > > On Fri, Oct 7, 2016 at 7:51 PM, Artur Karp wrote: > >> Dear All, >> >> has the topic of sexual harassment been ever addressed within South Asian >> Studies? >> >> If not - why? >> >> Artur Karp (ret.) >> >> Uniwersytet Warszawski >> Polska >> >> _______________________________________________ >> INDOLOGY mailing list >> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info >> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing >> committee) >> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or >> unsubscribe) >> > > > > -- > Nagaraj Paturi > > Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA. > > Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies > > FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of Liberal Education, > > (Pune, Maharashtra, INDIA ) > > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From karp at uw.edu.pl Mon Oct 17 17:23:27 2016 From: karp at uw.edu.pl (Artur Karp) Date: Mon, 17 Oct 16 19:23:27 +0200 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Sexual Harassment In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > harrasment orthography, yes - being harassed by domestic problems, one tends to forget the spelling rules. Artur K. 2016-10-17 19:18 GMT+02:00 Artur Karp : > Dear All, > > Should I understand that there are no traces, no mentions of sexual > harrasment in the entire - vast - corpus of ancient/medieval Indian > literature? > > My thanks to Nagaraj Paturi - for his hint re. > > Artur Karp (ret) > > Uniwersytet Warszawski > Polska > > 2016-10-07 20:16 GMT+02:00 Nagaraj Paturi : > >> I guess studies focussed on Draupadi's disrobing or Draupadi's harassment >> by Keechaka must have dealt with the issue of sexual harassment, though I >> do not have a ready bibliography. >> >> On Fri, Oct 7, 2016 at 7:51 PM, Artur Karp wrote: >> >>> Dear All, >>> >>> has the topic of sexual harassment been ever addressed within South >>> Asian Studies? >>> >>> If not - why? >>> >>> Artur Karp (ret.) >>> >>> Uniwersytet Warszawski >>> Polska >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> INDOLOGY mailing list >>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info >>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing >>> committee) >>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options >>> or unsubscribe) >>> >> >> >> >> -- >> Nagaraj Paturi >> >> Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA. >> >> Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies >> >> FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of Liberal Education, >> >> (Pune, Maharashtra, INDIA ) >> >> >> >> > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From nmisra at gmail.com Mon Oct 17 18:08:48 2016 From: nmisra at gmail.com (Nityanand Misra) Date: Mon, 17 Oct 16 23:38:48 +0530 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Sexual Harassment In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On 17 October 2016 at 22:48, Artur Karp wrote: > Dear All, > > Should I understand that there are no traces, no mentions of sexual > harrasment in the entire - vast - corpus of ancient/medieval Indian > literature? > > > A search for *rape* as the Text Word in the Puranic Encylopedia under http://www.sanskrit-lexicon.uni-koeln.de/scans/PEScan/2014/web/webtc2/index.php shows up the following: Rape of Rambh? by R?va?a (VR, UK). Rape [sic] of Vedavat? by R?va?a (VR, UK). In the VR, it is harassment but not rape. Probably the rape is described in some other R. Rape of Madanama?jar? by R?va?a (source?) Rape of Ca?cal?k?? by R?va?a (KambaR) Rape of Ar?, daughter of ?ukra, by Da??a (VR UK) Rape of Ugrasena's wife by the *Gandharva* Dramila (SB, 10th Canto) Attempt to rape Vinayavat? by Ra?gam?l? (Kath?sarits?gara) Attempt to rape Pramati by Nala, friend of Sudeva (M?rka??eya Pur??a) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From nagarajpaturi at gmail.com Mon Oct 17 18:19:26 2016 From: nagarajpaturi at gmail.com (Nagaraj Paturi) Date: Mon, 17 Oct 16 23:49:26 +0530 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Obituary notice for Prof. K. Mahadeva Sastri In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Sad to know. He was a combination of the rigors of both traditional and modern scholarship. I met him whenever I stayed on Sri Krishnadevaraya University campus in the house of Prof. Salaka Raghunatha Sarma , a great scholar of Sanskrit and classical Telugu, now staying at Rajahmundry. He was a combination of gAmbhIrya and priyabhAshaNa. In days when study of classical Telugu particulary from the perspective of linguistics is decreasing , this is a great loss. Om S'Antiss'Antiss'Antiss'Antih. On Mon, Oct 17, 2016 at 8:11 PM, Audrey Truschke wrote: > Dear All, > > Some still can't see the attachment. My apologies. Here's the text: > > > Dear indologists, > > > > I inform with a heavy heart the sudden demise of my father Prof.Korada > Mahadeva Sastri, Professor of Telugu and renowned linguist at Tirupati on > 11th October. The last rites (10th,11th, 12th day) will be conducted at > Anantapur. > > > > Brief bio-data of Prof Mahadeva Sastri : > > Born in 1921 at Machilipatnam, he is a triple Post Graduate, one in > Economics, the second in Comparative Philology and the third in Telugu. He > obtained his D. Litt in 1961 for his thesis on ?Historical Grammar of > Telugu? under the guidance of Dr. Suniti Kumar Chatterjee, renowned > Linguist, Calcutta University. He started his career as lecturer in the > Linguistics dept., Annamalai Univ. and later in the Telugu dept of Sri > Venkateswara Univ. and as was Professor at Sri Krishnadevaraya Univ, > Anantapur, Andhra Pradesh. He was Visiting Professor at the Institute of > Indology, Koln University, Germany during 1976-78. He was one of the > founder members of International School of Dravidian Linguistics, > Trivendrum. > > > > His major works : > > 1. Historical Grammar of Telugu, pub by S.V.University, Tirupati,1964 2. > Descriptive Grammar and Handbook of Modern Telugu, pub. by Franz Steiner > Verlag, Germany, (2) ?Andhra Vangmaya Parichayamu,? an introduction to > Telugu Literature with the best specimens of Telugu Poetry (4) ?Bala > Praudha Vyakarana Dipika,? a commentary on the traditional Telugu Grammar > with a philological background and (5) ?Telugu Vyutpatti Nighantuvu,? an > etymological dictionary of native Telugu, pub by Dravid Univ. Kuppam and > (6) Bhasha-samskruti, collected papers on Telugu language and literature. > > > > Some of his Research papers : 1 Intensive and Inclusive Compounds in > Telugu, 2 A Folk Tale in Western Bhojpuri, 3 Language of the Telugu > Inscriptions of the 12th and 13th centuries, 4 Development of Verbal Forms > in Modern Telugu, 5 Vedic and Classical Sanskrit, 6 Spontaneous Aspirations > in Telugu, 7 Prakrit Inscriptions in Buddhist Andhra and 8 Sound Symbolism > in Telugu. > > Audrey Truschke > Assistant Professor > Department of History > Rutgers University-Newark > > On Mon, Oct 17, 2016 at 8:58 AM, Audrey Truschke < > audrey.truschke at gmail.com> wrote: > >> The attachment did not go through for some the first time. Attached here. >> >> Audrey Truschke >> Assistant Professor >> Department of History >> Rutgers University-Newark >> >> On Mon, Oct 17, 2016 at 8:06 AM, Audrey Truschke < >> audrey.truschke at gmail.com> wrote: >> >>> Dear Colleagues, >>> >>> I am forwarding the attached obituary notice of Prof Korada Mahadeva >>> Sastri, renowned linguist and Prof of Telugu, at the request of his son, >>> Dr. K. Suryanarayana. >>> >>> Audrey Truschke (INDOLOGY committee member on duty) >>> >>> >> > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing > committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or > unsubscribe) > -- Nagaraj Paturi Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA. Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of Liberal Education, (Pune, Maharashtra, INDIA ) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From j.jurewicz at uw.edu.pl Mon Oct 17 18:26:33 2016 From: j.jurewicz at uw.edu.pl (Joanna Jurewicz) Date: Mon, 17 Oct 16 20:26:33 +0200 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Sexual Harassment In-Reply-To: Message-ID: And how about Draupad? in the Sabh?parvan? She would be raped if she was not saved by K???a. Best, Joanna --- dr hab. Joanna Jurewicz, prof. UW Katedra Azji Po?udniowej /Chair of South Asia Wydzia? Orientalistyczny / Faculty of Oriental Studies Uniwersytet Warszawski /University of Warsaw ul. Krakowskie Przedmie?cie 26/28 00-927 Warszawa https://uw.academia.edu/JoannaJurewicz 2016-10-17 20:08 GMT+02:00 Nityanand Misra : > > On 17 October 2016 at 22:48, Artur Karp wrote: > >> Dear All, >> >> Should I understand that there are no traces, no mentions of sexual >> harrasment in the entire - vast - corpus of ancient/medieval Indian >> literature? >> >> >> > A search for *rape* as the Text Word in the Puranic Encylopedia under > http://www.sanskrit-lexicon.uni-koeln.de/scans/PEScan/ > 2014/web/webtc2/index.php shows up the following: > > Rape of Rambh? by R?va?a (VR, UK). > Rape [sic] of Vedavat? by R?va?a (VR, UK). In the VR, it is harassment but > not rape. Probably the rape is described in some other R. > Rape of Madanama?jar? by R?va?a (source?) > Rape of Ca?cal?k?? by R?va?a (KambaR) > Rape of Ar?, daughter of ?ukra, by Da??a (VR UK) > Rape of Ugrasena's wife by the *Gandharva* Dramila (SB, 10th Canto) > Attempt to rape Vinayavat? by Ra?gam?l? (Kath?sarits?gara) > Attempt to rape Pramati by Nala, friend of Sudeva (M?rka??eya Pur??a) > > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing > committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or > unsubscribe) > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From shyamr at yorku.ca Mon Oct 17 18:31:09 2016 From: shyamr at yorku.ca (Shyam Ranganathan) Date: Mon, 17 Oct 16 14:31:09 -0400 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Sexual Harassment In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <8ae21e30-cc1e-866b-49e0-c012675ba9da@yorku.ca> Hello all Well, it's often struck me that many of the stories of Vishnu where Laksmi or some incarnation of her's is involved have elements of sexual harassment (or threat of sexual assault) with Vishnu coming to intervene on her side. The abduction of Sita is certainly one example, but so it seems to me would be the Varaha avatara. Krishna marrying Rukmani (by having to abduct her) is an example too. In the Venkateshwara story where Vishnu is kicked in the chest, Sri takes it as an affront to her boundaries. The case of Narakasura seems different as in some presentations it is Satyabhama who has to release the captured women (though she arrives in battle with Krishna who faints I hear), but Krishna marries the freed women as a way of securing their independence. On this point it seemed to me that whenever Krishna married someone they were basically free to carry on their life as they choose (in the absence of further threat). (Rama's marriage to Sita seems almost the opposite.) It's also struck me that the backdrop story of Vishnu's demon killing avataras that I grew up hearing--- of the four Kumaras who are barred from entering Vaikunta and subsequently curse the guards (forcing Vishnu to participate in their expiation)--- starts the ball rolling by calling out agism, as (I was told) they were not allowed to enter because they seemed to young. But what Vishnu has to endure with Sita as Rama is the absurdity of patriarchy (listening to elders etc.,), which is sexist too. The Krishna avatara seems to have gotten over that problem: he generally doesn't listen to authorities as Krishna, or at least he picks and chooses what authority to endorse, but he also liberally finds his partner everywhere in many forms (in contrast to Rama). I'm no philologist, so I cannot cite chapter and verse (all of this largely from my memory raised in a Sri Vaishnava household), and I'm sure that the details of these stories will vary according to sources. But there does seem to be a strong theme in the Vishnu Laksmi stories about sexual freedom, and the threat posed by misogyny and patriarchy. Things go best for Laksmi and Vishnu when patriarchy and misogyny have no pull in their environment. Certainly, this generalizes for us all. Best wishes, Shyam Shyam Ranganathan Department of Philosophy York University, Toronto On 17/10/2016 1:23 PM, Artur Karp wrote: > > harrasment > > orthography, yes - being harassed by domestic problems, one tends to > forget the spelling rules. > > Artur K. > > 2016-10-17 19:18 GMT+02:00 Artur Karp >: > > Dear All, > > Should I understand that there are no traces, no mentions of > sexual harrasment in the entire - vast - corpus of > ancient/medieval Indian literature? > > My thanks to Nagaraj Paturi - for his hint re. > > Artur Karp (ret) > > Uniwersytet Warszawski > Polska > > 2016-10-07 20:16 GMT+02:00 Nagaraj Paturi >: > > I guess studies focussed on Draupadi's disrobing or Draupadi's > harassment by Keechaka must have dealt with the issue of > sexual harassment, though I do not have a ready bibliography. > > On Fri, Oct 7, 2016 at 7:51 PM, Artur Karp > wrote: > > Dear All, > > has the topic of sexual harassment been ever addressed > within South Asian Studies? > > If not - why? > > Artur Karp (ret.) > > Uniwersytet Warszawski > Polska > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > > indology-owner at list.indology.info > (messages to > the list's managing committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your > list options or unsubscribe) > > > > > -- > Nagaraj Paturi > Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA. > Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies > FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of Liberal > Education, > (Pune, Maharashtra, INDIA ) > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From karp at uw.edu.pl Mon Oct 17 19:43:37 2016 From: karp at uw.edu.pl (Artur Karp) Date: Mon, 17 Oct 16 21:43:37 +0200 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Sexual Harassment In-Reply-To: <8ae21e30-cc1e-866b-49e0-c012675ba9da@yorku.ca> Message-ID: I hesitate --- Let me admit - yes, despite my Indological preparation - while in India (I used to live and work there for four years) I had the feeling that the omnipresence of the ?ivaite phallic symbols - erect and often presented with naturalistic detail -- the feeling that these images themselves might be felt as - sort of - aggresive instruments of sexual harassment. And that feeling of mine was confirmed by my wife, a Christian by her upbringing, and ethnographer by profession, but not an ardent church goer, not at all. How these symbols are received by non-?ivaites? Any negative reactions in literature? I hesitate - I would not want my question to be taken as criticism directed at the religious tenets of ?ivaism. Far from it. Artur K. 2016-10-17 20:31 GMT+02:00 Shyam Ranganathan : > Hello all > > Well, it's often struck me that many of the stories of Vishnu where Laksmi > or some incarnation of her's is involved have elements of sexual harassment > (or threat of sexual assault) with Vishnu coming to intervene on her side. > The abduction of Sita is certainly one example, but so it seems to me would > be the Varaha avatara. Krishna marrying Rukmani (by having to abduct her) > is an example too. In the Venkateshwara story where Vishnu is kicked in the > chest, Sri takes it as an affront to her boundaries. > > The case of Narakasura seems different as in some presentations it is > Satyabhama who has to release the captured women (though she arrives in > battle with Krishna who faints I hear), but Krishna marries the freed women > as a way of securing their independence. On this point it seemed to me that > whenever Krishna married someone they were basically free to carry on their > life as they choose (in the absence of further threat). (Rama's marriage to > Sita seems almost the opposite.) > > It's also struck me that the backdrop story of Vishnu's demon killing > avataras that I grew up hearing--- of the four Kumaras who are barred from > entering Vaikunta and subsequently curse the guards (forcing Vishnu to > participate in their expiation)--- starts the ball rolling by calling out > agism, as (I was told) they were not allowed to enter because they seemed > to young. But what Vishnu has to endure with Sita as Rama is the absurdity > of patriarchy (listening to elders etc.,), which is sexist too. The Krishna > avatara seems to have gotten over that problem: he generally doesn't listen > to authorities as Krishna, or at least he picks and chooses what authority > to endorse, but he also liberally finds his partner everywhere in many > forms (in contrast to Rama). > > I'm no philologist, so I cannot cite chapter and verse (all of this > largely from my memory raised in a Sri Vaishnava household), and I'm sure > that the details of these stories will vary according to sources. But there > does seem to be a strong theme in the Vishnu Laksmi stories about sexual > freedom, and the threat posed by misogyny and patriarchy. Things go best > for Laksmi and Vishnu when patriarchy and misogyny have no pull in their > environment. Certainly, this generalizes for us all. > > Best wishes, > > Shyam > > Shyam Ranganathan > > Department of Philosophy > York University, Toronto > > On 17/10/2016 1:23 PM, Artur Karp wrote: > > > harrasment > > orthography, yes - being harassed by domestic problems, one tends to > forget the spelling rules. > > Artur K. > > 2016-10-17 19:18 GMT+02:00 Artur Karp : > >> Dear All, >> >> Should I understand that there are no traces, no mentions of sexual >> harrasment in the entire - vast - corpus of ancient/medieval Indian >> literature? >> >> My thanks to Nagaraj Paturi - for his hint re. >> >> Artur Karp (ret) >> >> Uniwersytet Warszawski >> Polska >> >> 2016-10-07 20:16 GMT+02:00 Nagaraj Paturi : >> >>> I guess studies focussed on Draupadi's disrobing or Draupadi's >>> harassment by Keechaka must have dealt with the issue of sexual harassment, >>> though I do not have a ready bibliography. >>> >>> On Fri, Oct 7, 2016 at 7:51 PM, Artur Karp wrote: >>> >>>> Dear All, >>>> >>>> has the topic of sexual harassment been ever addressed within South >>>> Asian Studies? >>>> >>>> If not - why? >>>> >>>> Artur Karp (ret.) >>>> >>>> Uniwersytet Warszawski >>>> Polska >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> INDOLOGY mailing list >>>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info >>>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing >>>> committee) >>>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options >>>> or unsubscribe) >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Nagaraj Paturi >>> >>> Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA. >>> >>> Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies >>> >>> FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of Liberal Education, >>> >>> (Pune, Maharashtra, INDIA ) >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> > > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing listINDOLOGY at list.indology.infoindology-owner@list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee)http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) > > > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing > committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or > unsubscribe) > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From slaje at kabelmail.de Mon Oct 17 19:54:44 2016 From: slaje at kabelmail.de (Walter Slaje) Date: Mon, 17 Oct 16 21:54:44 +0200 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Sexual Harassment In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Before rashly jumping to a discussion of ?rape? by tacitly presupposing a 21 st century Western understanding of its concept and performance also for ancient India, a clarification is required of the concept(s) of ?rape? prevailing in premodern Indian thought. What unambiguous words and matching notions have so far been recorded that would correspond to "rape" in accordance with modern Western standards? What normative boundaries of, e.g., ?legal? types of marriage such as *r?k?asa *and* pi??ca* ? clear cases of ?rape? in Western terms I suppose ? needed to be transgressed that facts of rape would have been considered as fulfilled in premodern India? Was *kany?-d??a?a* the same as ?rape? in our understanding, or simply the spoiling of a virgin so that she could no longer be married off and became a serious damage to her parents? In what way can the absolute power a husband would have exercised over his wife (or wives) be categorised in contexts of "rape"? Is there any connecting factor of the past that could be related to the extraordinarily high number of filed gang rape cases in present-day India as continuously reported by the Indian media? In this latter regard, a good starting point could perhaps be Gyula Wojtilla's "Women at Work and Their Enemies. A Reappraisal of the K?mas?tra V, 5, 5 ? 10" (I lack the bibliographic citation of his paper at the moment). In a more general sense, B?U (M) VI 4,7 could also be revealing*, *if just *ati-?kram* is not understood in line with ?a?kara?s unconvincing attempts at downplaying the matter, but in accordance with Iva Fiser's ?overcome her forcibly? (*Indian Erotics of the Oldest Period*, Praha 1966: 116, a book not without its merits). Regards, WS ----------------------------- Prof. Dr. Walter Slaje Hermann-L?ns-Str. 1 D-99425 Weimar Deutschland 2016-10-17 20:08 GMT+02:00 Nityanand Misra : > > On 17 October 2016 at 22:48, Artur Karp wrote: > >> Dear All, >> >> Should I understand that there are no traces, no mentions of sexual >> harrasment in the entire - vast - corpus of ancient/medieval Indian >> literature? >> >> >> > A search for *rape* as the Text Word in the Puranic Encylopedia under > http://www.sanskrit-lexicon.uni-koeln.de/scans/PEScan/2014/ > web/webtc2/index.php shows up the following: > > Rape of Rambh? by R?va?a (VR, UK). > Rape [sic] of Vedavat? by R?va?a (VR, UK). In the VR, it is harassment but > not rape. Probably the rape is described in some other R. > Rape of Madanama?jar? by R?va?a (source?) > Rape of Ca?cal?k?? by R?va?a (KambaR) > Rape of Ar?, daughter of ?ukra, by Da??a (VR UK) > Rape of Ugrasena's wife by the *Gandharva* Dramila (SB, 10th Canto) > Attempt to rape Vinayavat? by Ra?gam?l? (Kath?sarits?gara) > Attempt to rape Pramati by Nala, friend of Sudeva (M?rka??eya Pur??a) > > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing > committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or > unsubscribe) > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From iran_farkhondeh at yahoo.fr Mon Oct 17 19:55:58 2016 From: iran_farkhondeh at yahoo.fr (farkhondeh iran) Date: Mon, 17 Oct 16 21:55:58 +0200 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Sexual Harassment In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <93BCABAD-D871-41A9-BCF2-E435AA3C7A5D@yahoo.fr> Dear all, If I may, as far as the Kath?sarits?gara is concerned The one who attempts to rape Vinayavat? is a vidy?dhara whose name is not given in the text. He is cursed to become a camel. The curse ends when Pu?kar?k?a, the future husband of Vinayavat?, kills the camel and thus frees the vidy?dhara (XII, 2, 104-108). More interesting in relation to sexual harassment are two embedded tales in the KSS VI. If we agree to define sexual harassment as an abuse on behalf of someone who is in a position of power and who abuses of his/her power to sexually abuse someone who is in a subordinate position. Here we have an instance of ?sexual harassment? narrated by a wise woman to protect herself against an attempt of rape on behalf of the king who is supposed to protect women in the absence of the man in charge of their protection. When Udayana, the King of the Vatsa goes at night in Kali?gasen??s house, she refuses herself to him and says that if ever he tries to take her by force she would surely die afterwards. Kali?gasen? narrates to him the story of the King Indradatta and the wife of a merchant. The merchant is gone for a business trip. The king seizes this chance to get into the house at night. Even though the merchant?s wife is imploring him, reminding him of his duty to protect, he tries to take her by force and finally her heart bursts. After a few days, Indradatta dies out of shame and remorse. Hearing this sad story awakens the king of the Vatsa who promises to protect Kali?gasen?. Best wishes, Iris Iran Farkhondeh Paris 3 University > Le 17 oct. 2016 ? 20:08, Nityanand Misra a ?crit : > > > On 17 October 2016 at 22:48, Artur Karp > wrote: > Dear All, > > Should I understand that there are no traces, no mentions of sexual harrasment in the entire - vast - corpus of ancient/medieval Indian literature? > > > > A search for rape as the Text Word in the Puranic Encylopedia under http://www.sanskrit-lexicon.uni-koeln.de/scans/PEScan/2014/web/webtc2/index.php shows up the following: > > Rape of Rambh? by R?va?a (VR, UK). > Rape [sic] of Vedavat? by R?va?a (VR, UK). In the VR, it is harassment but not rape. Probably the rape is described in some other R. > Rape of Madanama?jar? by R?va?a (source?) > Rape of Ca?cal?k?? by R?va?a (KambaR) > Rape of Ar?, daughter of ?ukra, by Da??a (VR UK) > Rape of Ugrasena's wife by the Gandharva Dramila (SB, 10th Canto) > Attempt to rape Vinayavat? by Ra?gam?l? (Kath?sarits?gara) > Attempt to rape Pramati by Nala, friend of Sudeva (M?rka??eya Pur??a) > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rpg at berkeley.edu Mon Oct 17 20:16:19 2016 From: rpg at berkeley.edu (Robert Goldman) Date: Mon, 17 Oct 16 13:16:19 -0700 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Sexual Harassment In-Reply-To: Message-ID: One may add Indra?s rape of Ahaly? in the VR UK version of the story Crit. ed. 7.30 ?33. This is represented as the primordial act of sexual violence which, once committed, would henceforth be common among men. Indra is also cursed in this passage to be captured in battle (by Indrajit) and to lose permanent lordship of the gods. Also, note that the daughter of U?anas, raped by Da??a at VR 7.71.15 is named Araj?, not Ar?. Dr. R. P. Goldman Catherine and William L. Magistretti Distinguished Professor in South and Southeast Asian Studies Department of South and Southeast Asian Studies MC # 2540 The University of California at Berkeley Berkeley, CA 94720-2540 Tel: 510-642-4089 Fax: 510-642-2409 > On Oct 17, 2016, at 11:08 AM, Nityanand Misra wrote: > > > On 17 October 2016 at 22:48, Artur Karp > wrote: > Dear All, > > Should I understand that there are no traces, no mentions of sexual harrasment in the entire - vast - corpus of ancient/medieval Indian literature? > > > > A search for rape as the Text Word in the Puranic Encylopedia under http://www.sanskrit-lexicon.uni-koeln.de/scans/PEScan/2014/web/webtc2/index.php shows up the following: > > Rape of Rambh? by R?va?a (VR, UK). > Rape [sic] of Vedavat? by R?va?a (VR, UK). In the VR, it is harassment but not rape. Probably the rape is described in some other R. > Rape of Madanama?jar? by R?va?a (source?) > Rape of Ca?cal?k?? by R?va?a (KambaR) > Rape of Ar?, daughter of ?ukra, by Da??a (VR UK) > Rape of Ugrasena's wife by the Gandharva Dramila (SB, 10th Canto) > Attempt to rape Vinayavat? by Ra?gam?l? (Kath?sarits?gara) > Attempt to rape Pramati by Nala, friend of Sudeva (M?rka??eya Pur??a) > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From iran_farkhondeh at yahoo.fr Mon Oct 17 20:16:11 2016 From: iran_farkhondeh at yahoo.fr (farkhondeh iran) Date: Mon, 17 Oct 16 22:16:11 +0200 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Sexual Harassment In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <40F96054-6FFD-4FFF-9BB6-934A49D7B7A2@yahoo.fr> If I may again, I agree with Prof. Slaje on the danger of anachronism and the need to go back to the Sanskrit words. The word kany?-d??a?a does not occur in KSS XII, 2, 105 cd but the Sanskrit is crystal-clear: it is a case of abuse as the girl is not willing and as the vidy?dhara has undertaken to abduct her by force. upetya t?m anicchant?m ha?h?d dhartum prav?ttav?n, KSS XII, 2, 105, cd I. Farkhondeh > Le 17 oct. 2016 ? 21:54, Walter Slaje a ?crit : > > Before rashly jumping to a discussion of ?rape? by tacitly presupposing a 21st century Western understanding of its concept and performance also for ancient India, a clarification is required of the concept(s) of ?rape? prevailing in premodern Indian thought. What unambiguous words and matching notions have so far been recorded that would correspond to "rape" in accordance with modern Western standards? What normative boundaries of, e.g., ?legal? types of marriage such as r?k?asa and pi??ca ? clear cases of ?rape? in Western terms I suppose ? needed to be transgressed that facts of rape would have been considered as fulfilled in premodern India? Was kany?-d??a?a the same as ?rape? in our understanding, or simply the spoiling of a virgin so that she could no longer be married off and became a serious damage to her parents? > > In what way can the absolute power a husband would have exercised over his wife (or wives) be categorised in contexts of "rape"? > > Is there any connecting factor of the past that could be related to the extraordinarily high number of filed gang rape cases in present-day India as continuously reported by the Indian media? In this latter regard, a good starting point could perhaps be Gyula Wojtilla's "Women at Work and Their Enemies. A Reappraisal of the K?mas?tra V, 5, 5 ? 10" (I lack the bibliographic citation of his paper at the moment). > > > > In a more general sense, B?U (M) VI 4,7 could also be revealing, if just ati-?kram is not understood in line with ?a?kara?s unconvincing attempts at downplaying the matter, but in accordance with Iva Fiser's ?overcome her forcibly? (Indian Erotics of the Oldest Period, Praha 1966: 116, a book not without its merits). > > > > Regards, > > WS > > > ----------------------------- > Prof. Dr. Walter Slaje > Hermann-L?ns-Str. 1 > D-99425 Weimar > Deutschland > > > 2016-10-17 20:08 GMT+02:00 Nityanand Misra >: > > On 17 October 2016 at 22:48, Artur Karp > wrote: > Dear All, > > Should I understand that there are no traces, no mentions of sexual harrasment in the entire - vast - corpus of ancient/medieval Indian literature? > > > > A search for rape as the Text Word in the Puranic Encylopedia under http://www.sanskrit-lexicon.uni-koeln.de/scans/PEScan/2014/web/webtc2/index.php shows up the following: > > Rape of Rambh? by R?va?a (VR, UK). > Rape [sic] of Vedavat? by R?va?a (VR, UK). In the VR, it is harassment but not rape. Probably the rape is described in some other R. > Rape of Madanama?jar? by R?va?a (source?) > Rape of Ca?cal?k?? by R?va?a (KambaR) > Rape of Ar?, daughter of ?ukra, by Da??a (VR UK) > Rape of Ugrasena's wife by the Gandharva Dramila (SB, 10th Canto) > Attempt to rape Vinayavat? by Ra?gam?l? (Kath?sarits?gara) > Attempt to rape Pramati by Nala, friend of Sudeva (M?rka??eya Pur??a) > > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From karp at uw.edu.pl Mon Oct 17 20:25:53 2016 From: karp at uw.edu.pl (Artur Karp) Date: Mon, 17 Oct 16 22:25:53 +0200 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Sexual Harassment In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > Iva Fiser Let's please retain Prof. *Ivo **Fi?er*'s Czech family name. Artur K. 2016-10-17 22:17 GMT+02:00 farkhondeh iran via INDOLOGY < indology at list.indology.info>: > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing > committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or > unsubscribe) > > > ---------- Wiadomo?? przekazana dalej ---------- > From: farkhondeh iran > To: Walter Slaje > Cc: Nityanand Misra , indology < > indology at list.indology.info> > Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2016 22:16:11 +0200 > Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] Sexual Harassment > > If I may again, I agree with Prof. Slaje on the danger of anachronism and > the need to go back to the Sanskrit words. The word kany?-d??a?a does not > occur in KSS XII, 2, 105 cd but the Sanskrit is crystal-clear: it is a case > of abuse as the girl is not willing and as the vidy?dhara has undertaken to > abduct her by force. > > upetya t?m anicchant?m ha?h?d dhartum prav?ttav?n, KSS XII, 2, 105, cd > I. Farkhondeh > > Le 17 oct. 2016 ? 21:54, Walter Slaje a ?crit : > > Before rashly jumping to a discussion of ?rape? by tacitly presupposing a > 21st century Western understanding of its concept and performance also > for ancient India, a clarification is required of the concept(s) of ?rape? > prevailing in premodern Indian thought. What unambiguous words and matching > notions have so far been recorded that would correspond to "rape" in > accordance with modern Western standards? What normative boundaries of, > e.g., ?legal? types of marriage such as *r?k?asa *and* pi??ca* ? clear > cases of ?rape? in Western terms I suppose ? needed to be transgressed that > facts of rape would have been considered as fulfilled in premodern India? > Was *kany?-d??a?a* the same as ?rape? in our understanding, or simply the > spoiling of a virgin so that she could no longer be married off and became > a serious damage to her parents? > > In what way can the absolute power a husband would have exercised over his > wife (or wives) be categorised in contexts of "rape"? > > Is there any connecting factor of the past that could be related to the > extraordinarily high number of filed gang rape cases in present-day India > as continuously reported by the Indian media? In this latter regard, a good > starting point could perhaps be Gyula Wojtilla's "Women at Work and Their > Enemies. A Reappraisal of the K?mas?tra V, 5, 5 ? 10" (I lack the > bibliographic citation of his paper at the moment). > > > In a more general sense, B?U (M) VI 4,7 could also be revealing*, *if > just *ati-?kram* is not understood in line with ?a?kara?s unconvincing > attempts at downplaying the matter, but in accordance with Iva Fiser's ?overcome > her forcibly? (*Indian Erotics of the Oldest Period*, Praha 1966: 116, a > book not without its merits). > > > Regards, > > WS > > ----------------------------- > Prof. Dr. Walter Slaje > Hermann-L?ns-Str. 1 > D-99425 Weimar > Deutschland > > > 2016-10-17 20:08 GMT+02:00 Nityanand Misra : > >> >> On 17 October 2016 at 22:48, Artur Karp wrote: >> >>> Dear All, >>> >>> Should I understand that there are no traces, no mentions of sexual >>> harrasment in the entire - vast - corpus of ancient/medieval Indian >>> literature? >>> >>> >>> >> A search for *rape* as the Text Word in the Puranic Encylopedia under >> http://www.sanskrit-lexicon.uni-koeln.de/scans/PEScan/2014/w >> eb/webtc2/index.php shows up the following: >> >> Rape of Rambh? by R?va?a (VR, UK). >> Rape [sic] of Vedavat? by R?va?a (VR, UK). In the VR, it is harassment >> but not rape. Probably the rape is described in some other R. >> Rape of Madanama?jar? by R?va?a (source?) >> Rape of Ca?cal?k?? by R?va?a (KambaR) >> Rape of Ar?, daughter of ?ukra, by Da??a (VR UK) >> Rape of Ugrasena's wife by the *Gandharva* Dramila (SB, 10th Canto) >> Attempt to rape Vinayavat? by Ra?gam?l? (Kath?sarits?gara) >> Attempt to rape Pramati by Nala, friend of Sudeva (M?rka??eya Pur??a) >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> INDOLOGY mailing list >> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info >> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing >> committee) >> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or >> unsubscribe) >> > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing > committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or > unsubscribe) > > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From hr at ivs.edu Mon Oct 17 20:32:24 2016 From: hr at ivs.edu (Howard Resnick) Date: Mon, 17 Oct 16 16:32:24 -0400 Subject: [INDOLOGY] general academic news Message-ID: <6F287FBD-E09B-480E-9937-0EEFAC581F19@ivs.edu> http://www.reuters.com/investigates/special-report/college-charity/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From nagarajpaturi at gmail.com Tue Oct 18 03:53:44 2016 From: nagarajpaturi at gmail.com (Nagaraj Paturi) Date: Tue, 18 Oct 16 09:23:44 +0530 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Sexual Harassment In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Dear Prof. Artur Karp, 1. Since you raised the question of 'reception', which is very important and crucial, let me tell you that why non-Shaivites? Shaivites themselves do not receive Shivalinga as phallus or phallic symbol. One of the extremely vibrant Shaivite tradition of South India is Veerashaivism. Akka Mahadevi (12th Century AD), one of the founding key figures of this tradition, a woman-saint, who roamed nude, sang vachanas composed by herself, says in one of her vachanas, ,"????????? ???????????? ??????? ?????? (?k?ravallada nir?k?rali?gava kaiyalli hi?idu)" (= holding in hand the Shivalinga which is formless ) This is a documentation of the 12th century AD Shaivite reception of Shivalinga. Writings by non-Shaivites reflecting their reception of Shivalinga are not in contradiction to this. 2. Historians of the shape of Shivalinga noted that the lingas with (what they considered as ) 'naturalistic detail of a phallus' are the Gudimallam and the Agra ones only. All the later Shivalingams 'lost' such details , they noted. 3. i??alinga of Veerashaivites is an oval shaped stone worshipped by holding in hand. bANalingas are also similar. There are numerous varieties of shapes of Shivalinga including Mukhalingas. There are jalalingas, ?k?s'alingas and v?yulingas too. Unless one goes with a preconceived notion, the present widespread Shivalingas do not evoke the phallic idea. No 'uneducated' Indian even knows that there are phallic interpretations of Shivalinga. On Tue, Oct 18, 2016 at 1:13 AM, Artur Karp wrote: > I hesitate --- > > Let me admit - yes, despite my Indological preparation - while in India (I > used to live and work there for four years) I had the feeling that the > omnipresence of the ?ivaite phallic symbols - erect and often presented > with naturalistic detail -- the feeling that these images themselves might > be felt as - sort of - aggresive instruments of sexual harassment. And that > feeling of mine was confirmed by my wife, a Christian by her upbringing, > and ethnographer by profession, but not an ardent church goer, not at all. > > How these symbols are received by non-?ivaites? Any negative reactions in > literature? > > I hesitate - I would not want my question to be taken as criticism > directed at the religious tenets of ?ivaism. Far from it. > > Artur K. > > 2016-10-17 20:31 GMT+02:00 Shyam Ranganathan : > >> Hello all >> >> Well, it's often struck me that many of the stories of Vishnu where >> Laksmi or some incarnation of her's is involved have elements of sexual >> harassment (or threat of sexual assault) with Vishnu coming to intervene on >> her side. The abduction of Sita is certainly one example, but so it seems >> to me would be the Varaha avatara. Krishna marrying Rukmani (by having to >> abduct her) is an example too. In the Venkateshwara story where Vishnu is >> kicked in the chest, Sri takes it as an affront to her boundaries. >> >> The case of Narakasura seems different as in some presentations it is >> Satyabhama who has to release the captured women (though she arrives in >> battle with Krishna who faints I hear), but Krishna marries the freed women >> as a way of securing their independence. On this point it seemed to me that >> whenever Krishna married someone they were basically free to carry on their >> life as they choose (in the absence of further threat). (Rama's marriage to >> Sita seems almost the opposite.) >> >> It's also struck me that the backdrop story of Vishnu's demon killing >> avataras that I grew up hearing--- of the four Kumaras who are barred from >> entering Vaikunta and subsequently curse the guards (forcing Vishnu to >> participate in their expiation)--- starts the ball rolling by calling out >> agism, as (I was told) they were not allowed to enter because they seemed >> to young. But what Vishnu has to endure with Sita as Rama is the absurdity >> of patriarchy (listening to elders etc.,), which is sexist too. The Krishna >> avatara seems to have gotten over that problem: he generally doesn't listen >> to authorities as Krishna, or at least he picks and chooses what authority >> to endorse, but he also liberally finds his partner everywhere in many >> forms (in contrast to Rama). >> >> I'm no philologist, so I cannot cite chapter and verse (all of this >> largely from my memory raised in a Sri Vaishnava household), and I'm sure >> that the details of these stories will vary according to sources. But there >> does seem to be a strong theme in the Vishnu Laksmi stories about sexual >> freedom, and the threat posed by misogyny and patriarchy. Things go best >> for Laksmi and Vishnu when patriarchy and misogyny have no pull in their >> environment. Certainly, this generalizes for us all. >> >> Best wishes, >> >> Shyam >> >> Shyam Ranganathan >> >> Department of Philosophy >> York University, Toronto >> >> On 17/10/2016 1:23 PM, Artur Karp wrote: >> >> > harrasment >> >> orthography, yes - being harassed by domestic problems, one tends to >> forget the spelling rules. >> >> Artur K. >> >> 2016-10-17 19:18 GMT+02:00 Artur Karp : >> >>> Dear All, >>> >>> Should I understand that there are no traces, no mentions of sexual >>> harrasment in the entire - vast - corpus of ancient/medieval Indian >>> literature? >>> >>> My thanks to Nagaraj Paturi - for his hint re. >>> >>> Artur Karp (ret) >>> >>> Uniwersytet Warszawski >>> Polska >>> >>> 2016-10-07 20:16 GMT+02:00 Nagaraj Paturi : >>> >>>> I guess studies focussed on Draupadi's disrobing or Draupadi's >>>> harassment by Keechaka must have dealt with the issue of sexual harassment, >>>> though I do not have a ready bibliography. >>>> >>>> On Fri, Oct 7, 2016 at 7:51 PM, Artur Karp wrote: >>>> >>>>> Dear All, >>>>> >>>>> has the topic of sexual harassment been ever addressed within South >>>>> Asian Studies? >>>>> >>>>> If not - why? >>>>> >>>>> Artur Karp (ret.) >>>>> >>>>> Uniwersytet Warszawski >>>>> Polska >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> INDOLOGY mailing list >>>>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info >>>>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing >>>>> committee) >>>>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options >>>>> or unsubscribe) >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Nagaraj Paturi >>>> >>>> Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA. >>>> >>>> Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies >>>> >>>> FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of Liberal Education, >>>> >>>> (Pune, Maharashtra, INDIA ) >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> INDOLOGY mailing listINDOLOGY at list.indology.infoindology-owner@list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee)http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> INDOLOGY mailing list >> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info >> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing >> committee) >> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or >> unsubscribe) >> > > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing > committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or > unsubscribe) > -- Nagaraj Paturi Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA. Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of Liberal Education, (Pune, Maharashtra, INDIA ) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From slaje at kabelmail.de Tue Oct 18 05:02:39 2016 From: slaje at kabelmail.de (Walter Slaje) Date: Tue, 18 Oct 16 07:02:39 +0200 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Sexual Harassment In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I am sorry the diacritics I use for vedic accents and the h?cek (inverted circumflex) *never* show in my emails. This is beyond my control. My apologies for the inconvenience. I was also reminded that the thread is ?sexual harrassment?, not ?rape? in the strict sense. This is correct. Might I, with your permission, then add the innocent question why public sexual harrassment in India is widely known as ?Eve teasing?? The vast majority of victims are Indian girls. So, why an English ? but not an Indian ? forename to designate a crime committed by male Indian youth gangs against Indian women? I have never quite understood the background of this bizarre denomination. I am afraid in this particular case attempts at linking it to the premodern past of India are bound to fail. Are there any explanations on offer? Yours, cluelessly, WS 2016-10-17 22:25 GMT+02:00 Artur Karp : > > Iva Fiser > > Let's please retain Prof. *Ivo **Fi?er*'s Czech family name. > > Artur K. > > 2016-10-17 22:17 GMT+02:00 farkhondeh iran via INDOLOGY < > indology at list.indology.info>: > >> _______________________________________________ >> INDOLOGY mailing list >> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info >> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing >> committee) >> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or >> unsubscribe) >> >> >> ---------- Wiadomo?? przekazana dalej ---------- >> From: farkhondeh iran >> To: Walter Slaje >> Cc: Nityanand Misra , indology < >> indology at list.indology.info> >> Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2016 22:16:11 +0200 >> Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] Sexual Harassment >> >> If I may again, I agree with Prof. Slaje on the danger of anachronism and >> the need to go back to the Sanskrit words. The word kany?-d??a?a does not >> occur in KSS XII, 2, 105 cd but the Sanskrit is crystal-clear: it is a case >> of abuse as the girl is not willing and as the vidy?dhara has undertaken to >> abduct her by force. >> >> upetya t?m anicchant?m ha?h?d dhartum prav?ttav?n, KSS XII, 2, 105, cd >> I. Farkhondeh >> >> Le 17 oct. 2016 ? 21:54, Walter Slaje a ?crit : >> >> Before rashly jumping to a discussion of ?rape? by tacitly presupposing a >> 21st century Western understanding of its concept and performance also >> for ancient India, a clarification is required of the concept(s) of ?rape? >> prevailing in premodern Indian thought. What unambiguous words and matching >> notions have so far been recorded that would correspond to "rape" in >> accordance with modern Western standards? What normative boundaries of, >> e.g., ?legal? types of marriage such as *r?k?asa *and* pi??ca* ? clear >> cases of ?rape? in Western terms I suppose ? needed to be transgressed that >> facts of rape would have been considered as fulfilled in premodern India? >> Was *kany?-d??a?a* the same as ?rape? in our understanding, or simply >> the spoiling of a virgin so that she could no longer be married off and >> became a serious damage to her parents? >> >> In what way can the absolute power a husband would have exercised over >> his wife (or wives) be categorised in contexts of "rape"? >> >> Is there any connecting factor of the past that could be related to the >> extraordinarily high number of filed gang rape cases in present-day India >> as continuously reported by the Indian media? In this latter regard, a good >> starting point could perhaps be Gyula Wojtilla's "Women at Work and >> Their Enemies. A Reappraisal of the K?mas?tra V, 5, 5 ? 10" (I lack the >> bibliographic citation of his paper at the moment). >> >> >> In a more general sense, B?U (M) VI 4,7 could also be revealing*, *if >> just *ati-?kram* is not understood in line with ?a?kara?s unconvincing >> attempts at downplaying the matter, but in accordance with Iva Fiser's ?overcome >> her forcibly? (*Indian Erotics of the Oldest Period*, Praha 1966: 116, a >> book not without its merits). >> >> >> Regards, >> >> WS >> >> ----------------------------- >> Prof. Dr. Walter Slaje >> Hermann-L?ns-Str. 1 >> D-99425 Weimar >> Deutschland >> >> >> 2016-10-17 20:08 GMT+02:00 Nityanand Misra : >> >>> >>> On 17 October 2016 at 22:48, Artur Karp wrote: >>> >>>> Dear All, >>>> >>>> Should I understand that there are no traces, no mentions of sexual >>>> harrasment in the entire - vast - corpus of ancient/medieval Indian >>>> literature? >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> A search for *rape* as the Text Word in the Puranic Encylopedia under >>> http://www.sanskrit-lexicon.uni-koeln.de/scans/PEScan/2014/w >>> eb/webtc2/index.php shows up the following: >>> >>> Rape of Rambh? by R?va?a (VR, UK). >>> Rape [sic] of Vedavat? by R?va?a (VR, UK). In the VR, it is harassment >>> but not rape. Probably the rape is described in some other R. >>> Rape of Madanama?jar? by R?va?a (source?) >>> Rape of Ca?cal?k?? by R?va?a (KambaR) >>> Rape of Ar?, daughter of ?ukra, by Da??a (VR UK) >>> Rape of Ugrasena's wife by the *Gandharva* Dramila (SB, 10th Canto) >>> Attempt to rape Vinayavat? by Ra?gam?l? (Kath?sarits?gara) >>> Attempt to rape Pramati by Nala, friend of Sudeva (M?rka??eya Pur??a) >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> INDOLOGY mailing list >>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info >>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing >>> committee) >>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options >>> or unsubscribe) >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> INDOLOGY mailing list >> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info >> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing >> committee) >> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or >> unsubscribe) >> >> >> >> > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From slaje at kabelmail.de Tue Oct 18 05:20:39 2016 From: slaje at kabelmail.de (Walter Slaje) Date: Tue, 18 Oct 16 07:20:39 +0200 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Sexual Harassment In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I have to apologize again, this time for incorrectly spelling "harrassment" under the influence of nocturnal clouding of consciousness. Kindly take it as "harassment". Thanking you, WS 2016-10-18 7:02 GMT+02:00 Walter Slaje : > I am sorry the diacritics I use for vedic accents and the h?cek (inverted > circumflex) *never* show in my emails. This is beyond my control. My > apologies for the inconvenience. > > > > I was also reminded that the thread is ?sexual harrassment?, not ?rape? in > the strict sense. This is correct. Might I, with your permission, then add > the innocent question why public sexual harrassment in India is widely > known as ?Eve teasing?? > > The vast majority of victims are Indian girls. So, why an English ? but > not an Indian ? forename to designate a crime committed by male Indian > youth gangs against Indian women? > > I have never quite understood the background of this bizarre denomination. > I am afraid in this particular case attempts at linking it to the premodern > past of India are bound to fail. Are there any explanations on offer? > > > > Yours, cluelessly, > > WS > > > 2016-10-17 22:25 GMT+02:00 Artur Karp : > >> > Iva Fiser >> >> Let's please retain Prof. *Ivo **Fi?er*'s Czech family name. >> >> Artur K. >> >> 2016-10-17 22:17 GMT+02:00 farkhondeh iran via INDOLOGY < >> indology at list.indology.info>: >> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> INDOLOGY mailing list >>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info >>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing >>> committee) >>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options >>> or unsubscribe) >>> >>> >>> ---------- Wiadomo?? przekazana dalej ---------- >>> From: farkhondeh iran >>> To: Walter Slaje >>> Cc: Nityanand Misra , indology < >>> indology at list.indology.info> >>> Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2016 22:16:11 +0200 >>> Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] Sexual Harassment >>> >>> If I may again, I agree with Prof. Slaje on the danger of anachronism >>> and the need to go back to the Sanskrit words. The word kany?-d??a?a does >>> not occur in KSS XII, 2, 105 cd but the Sanskrit is crystal-clear: it is a >>> case of abuse as the girl is not willing and as the vidy?dhara has >>> undertaken to abduct her by force. >>> >>> upetya t?m anicchant?m ha?h?d dhartum prav?ttav?n, KSS XII, 2, 105, cd >>> I. Farkhondeh >>> >>> Le 17 oct. 2016 ? 21:54, Walter Slaje a ?crit : >>> >>> Before rashly jumping to a discussion of ?rape? by tacitly presupposing >>> a 21st century Western understanding of its concept and performance >>> also for ancient India, a clarification is required of the concept(s) of >>> ?rape? prevailing in premodern Indian thought. What unambiguous words and >>> matching notions have so far been recorded that would correspond to "rape" >>> in accordance with modern Western standards? What normative boundaries of, >>> e.g., ?legal? types of marriage such as *r?k?asa *and* pi??ca* ? clear >>> cases of ?rape? in Western terms I suppose ? needed to be transgressed that >>> facts of rape would have been considered as fulfilled in premodern India? >>> Was *kany?-d??a?a* the same as ?rape? in our understanding, or simply >>> the spoiling of a virgin so that she could no longer be married off and >>> became a serious damage to her parents? >>> >>> In what way can the absolute power a husband would have exercised over >>> his wife (or wives) be categorised in contexts of "rape"? >>> >>> Is there any connecting factor of the past that could be related to the >>> extraordinarily high number of filed gang rape cases in present-day India >>> as continuously reported by the Indian media? In this latter regard, a good >>> starting point could perhaps be Gyula Wojtilla's "Women at Work and >>> Their Enemies. A Reappraisal of the K?mas?tra V, 5, 5 ? 10" (I lack the >>> bibliographic citation of his paper at the moment). >>> >>> >>> In a more general sense, B?U (M) VI 4,7 could also be revealing*, *if >>> just *ati-?kram* is not understood in line with ?a?kara?s unconvincing >>> attempts at downplaying the matter, but in accordance with Iva Fiser's ?overcome >>> her forcibly? (*Indian Erotics of the Oldest Period*, Praha 1966: 116, >>> a book not without its merits). >>> >>> >>> Regards, >>> >>> WS >>> >>> ----------------------------- >>> Prof. Dr. Walter Slaje >>> Hermann-L?ns-Str. 1 >>> D-99425 Weimar >>> Deutschland >>> >>> >>> 2016-10-17 20:08 GMT+02:00 Nityanand Misra : >>> >>>> >>>> On 17 October 2016 at 22:48, Artur Karp wrote: >>>> >>>>> Dear All, >>>>> >>>>> Should I understand that there are no traces, no mentions of sexual >>>>> harrasment in the entire - vast - corpus of ancient/medieval Indian >>>>> literature? >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> A search for *rape* as the Text Word in the Puranic Encylopedia under >>>> http://www.sanskrit-lexicon.uni-koeln.de/scans/PEScan/2014/w >>>> eb/webtc2/index.php shows up the following: >>>> >>>> Rape of Rambh? by R?va?a (VR, UK). >>>> Rape [sic] of Vedavat? by R?va?a (VR, UK). In the VR, it is harassment >>>> but not rape. Probably the rape is described in some other R. >>>> Rape of Madanama?jar? by R?va?a (source?) >>>> Rape of Ca?cal?k?? by R?va?a (KambaR) >>>> Rape of Ar?, daughter of ?ukra, by Da??a (VR UK) >>>> Rape of Ugrasena's wife by the *Gandharva* Dramila (SB, 10th Canto) >>>> Attempt to rape Vinayavat? by Ra?gam?l? (Kath?sarits?gara) >>>> Attempt to rape Pramati by Nala, friend of Sudeva (M?rka??eya Pur??a) >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> INDOLOGY mailing list >>>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info >>>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing >>>> committee) >>>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options >>>> or unsubscribe) >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> INDOLOGY mailing list >>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info >>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing >>> committee) >>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options >>> or unsubscribe) >>> >>> >>> >>> >> > ?? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From nmisra at gmail.com Tue Oct 18 05:51:03 2016 From: nmisra at gmail.com (Nityanand Misra) Date: Tue, 18 Oct 16 11:21:03 +0530 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Sexual Harassment In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On 18 October 2016 at 10:32, Walter Slaje wrote: > I was also reminded that the thread is ?sexual harrassment?, not ?rape? in > the strict sense. This is correct. Might I, with your permission, then add > the innocent question why public sexual harrassment in India is widely > known as ?Eve teasing?? > > The vast majority of victims are Indian girls. So, why an English ? but > not an Indian ? forename to designate a crime committed by male Indian > youth gangs against Indian women? > > > The term *eve-teasing* (note the use of lowercase *e*) is used not only in India, but in other South Asian countries also (including Pakistan, Sri Lanka, and Bangladesh). And I believe the term eve here refers to women in general, and is not an English/Western forename or reference to the Biblical Eve. A similar use of the term eve occurs in Indian (maybe South Asian?) English in sports. Since my childhood (1980s), I have noted that newspapers in India often refer to Indian women's team in team sports as *Indian eves*. I doubt if this usage is common outside India/South Asia. A few recent examples: *Indian eves settle for bronze in Uber Cup* http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/sports/badminton/Indian-eves-settle-for-bronze-in-Uber-Cup/articleshow/52358447.cms Indian eves to get BCCI's nod for overseas stint https://cricket.yahoo.com/news/indian-eves-bccis-nod-overseas-stint-145203107.html Sri Lankan eves take on South Africa in inconsequential WT20 match http://www.thehindu.com/todays-paper/tp-in-school/sri-lankan-eves-take-on-south-africa-in-inconsequential-wt20-match/article8402950.ece -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From psdmccartney at gmail.com Tue Oct 18 05:53:53 2016 From: psdmccartney at gmail.com (patrick mccartney) Date: Tue, 18 Oct 16 16:23:53 +1030 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Sexual Harassment In-Reply-To: Message-ID: The term 'eve teasing' apparently was first used in the 1960s. Although I have never been able to find out by whom it was coined. The answer is in part found here : "Eve teasing" is used in India to refer to a wide variety of behaviour including molestation, "flashing" or any verbal/physical sexual street harassment that falls short of rape. But this from wikipedia sums it up: According to them, considering the semantic roots of the term in Indian English , Eve teasing refers to the temptress nature of Eve, placing responsibility on the woman as a tease.[10] More importantly, it represents the 'woman as ?temptress? who was complicit in her own downfall... [and] is actually a denial that it is sexual violence '. Also, the term is not found in the Indian Penal Code. I don't know, but perhaps it has something to do with the perception that 'rape' etc occurs in 'India' and not 'Bh?rat' as RSS ideologue Mohan Bhagwat is fond of saying. And that it is because it is perceived as a cultural import from Abrahamic religions that have 'dominated' and 'enslaved' the region for several centuries. Ultimately, this anti-social behaviour is perceived as a result of 'Western values' and not a local practice. It is considered a colonial byproduct. This helps create a moral panic to stimulate an anti-western agenda. A return to 'core/true' Indian values is considered the answer to this problem. At least in the eyes of the Sangh Parivar. Perhaps this is a result of the final stage of Srinivas' Sanskritization theory, i.e. Westernization? Bhagwat further qualified his essentialised remark stating that the 'pure village' is devoid of assaults but the sullied (i.e. Westernised) urban centres are where assaults occur. All the best, Patrick McCartney, PhD Fellow School of Culture, History & Language College of the Asia-Pacific The Australian National University Canberra, Australia, 0200 Skype - psdmccartney Phone + Whatsapp: +61 414 954 748 Twitter - @psdmccartney academia - Linkedin Edanz #yogabodyANU2016 symposium Ep1 - Imagining Sanskrit Land Ep 2 - Total-am Ep 3 - Jalam ? Chillum Ep 4 - It's Time to get Married A Day in our Ashram Stop animation short film of Shakuntala Forced to Clean Human Waste One of my favourite song s The Philosophy of Cycling On Tue, Oct 18, 2016 at 3:32 PM, Walter Slaje wrote: > I am sorry the diacritics I use for vedic accents and the h?cek (inverted > circumflex) *never* show in my emails. This is beyond my control. My > apologies for the inconvenience. > > > > I was also reminded that the thread is ?sexual harrassment?, not ?rape? in > the strict sense. This is correct. Might I, with your permission, then add > the innocent question why public sexual harrassment in India is widely > known as ?Eve teasing?? > > The vast majority of victims are Indian girls. So, why an English ? but > not an Indian ? forename to designate a crime committed by male Indian > youth gangs against Indian women? > > I have never quite understood the background of this bizarre denomination. > I am afraid in this particular case attempts at linking it to the premodern > past of India are bound to fail. Are there any explanations on offer? > > > > Yours, cluelessly, > > WS > > > 2016-10-17 22:25 GMT+02:00 Artur Karp : > >> > Iva Fiser >> >> Let's please retain Prof. *Ivo **Fi?er*'s Czech family name. >> >> Artur K. >> >> 2016-10-17 22:17 GMT+02:00 farkhondeh iran via INDOLOGY < >> indology at list.indology.info>: >> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> INDOLOGY mailing list >>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info >>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing >>> committee) >>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options >>> or unsubscribe) >>> >>> >>> ---------- Wiadomo?? przekazana dalej ---------- >>> From: farkhondeh iran >>> To: Walter Slaje >>> Cc: Nityanand Misra , indology < >>> indology at list.indology.info> >>> Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2016 22:16:11 +0200 >>> Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] Sexual Harassment >>> >>> If I may again, I agree with Prof. Slaje on the danger of anachronism >>> and the need to go back to the Sanskrit words. The word kany?-d??a?a does >>> not occur in KSS XII, 2, 105 cd but the Sanskrit is crystal-clear: it is a >>> case of abuse as the girl is not willing and as the vidy?dhara has >>> undertaken to abduct her by force. >>> >>> upetya t?m anicchant?m ha?h?d dhartum prav?ttav?n, KSS XII, 2, 105, cd >>> I. Farkhondeh >>> >>> Le 17 oct. 2016 ? 21:54, Walter Slaje a ?crit : >>> >>> Before rashly jumping to a discussion of ?rape? by tacitly presupposing >>> a 21st century Western understanding of its concept and performance >>> also for ancient India, a clarification is required of the concept(s) of >>> ?rape? prevailing in premodern Indian thought. What unambiguous words and >>> matching notions have so far been recorded that would correspond to "rape" >>> in accordance with modern Western standards? What normative boundaries of, >>> e.g., ?legal? types of marriage such as *r?k?asa *and* pi??ca* ? clear >>> cases of ?rape? in Western terms I suppose ? needed to be transgressed that >>> facts of rape would have been considered as fulfilled in premodern India? >>> Was *kany?-d??a?a* the same as ?rape? in our understanding, or simply >>> the spoiling of a virgin so that she could no longer be married off and >>> became a serious damage to her parents? >>> >>> In what way can the absolute power a husband would have exercised over >>> his wife (or wives) be categorised in contexts of "rape"? >>> >>> Is there any connecting factor of the past that could be related to the >>> extraordinarily high number of filed gang rape cases in present-day India >>> as continuously reported by the Indian media? In this latter regard, a good >>> starting point could perhaps be Gyula Wojtilla's "Women at Work and >>> Their Enemies. A Reappraisal of the K?mas?tra V, 5, 5 ? 10" (I lack the >>> bibliographic citation of his paper at the moment). >>> >>> >>> In a more general sense, B?U (M) VI 4,7 could also be revealing*, *if >>> just *ati-?kram* is not understood in line with ?a?kara?s unconvincing >>> attempts at downplaying the matter, but in accordance with Iva Fiser's ?overcome >>> her forcibly? (*Indian Erotics of the Oldest Period*, Praha 1966: 116, >>> a book not without its merits). >>> >>> >>> Regards, >>> >>> WS >>> >>> ----------------------------- >>> Prof. Dr. Walter Slaje >>> Hermann-L?ns-Str. 1 >>> D-99425 Weimar >>> Deutschland >>> >>> >>> 2016-10-17 20:08 GMT+02:00 Nityanand Misra : >>> >>>> >>>> On 17 October 2016 at 22:48, Artur Karp wrote: >>>> >>>>> Dear All, >>>>> >>>>> Should I understand that there are no traces, no mentions of sexual >>>>> harrasment in the entire - vast - corpus of ancient/medieval Indian >>>>> literature? >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> A search for *rape* as the Text Word in the Puranic Encylopedia under >>>> http://www.sanskrit-lexicon.uni-koeln.de/scans/PEScan/2014/w >>>> eb/webtc2/index.php shows up the following: >>>> >>>> Rape of Rambh? by R?va?a (VR, UK). >>>> Rape [sic] of Vedavat? by R?va?a (VR, UK). In the VR, it is harassment >>>> but not rape. Probably the rape is described in some other R. >>>> Rape of Madanama?jar? by R?va?a (source?) >>>> Rape of Ca?cal?k?? by R?va?a (KambaR) >>>> Rape of Ar?, daughter of ?ukra, by Da??a (VR UK) >>>> Rape of Ugrasena's wife by the *Gandharva* Dramila (SB, 10th Canto) >>>> Attempt to rape Vinayavat? by Ra?gam?l? (Kath?sarits?gara) >>>> Attempt to rape Pramati by Nala, friend of Sudeva (M?rka??eya Pur??a) >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> INDOLOGY mailing list >>>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info >>>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing >>>> committee) >>>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options >>>> or unsubscribe) >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> INDOLOGY mailing list >>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info >>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing >>> committee) >>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options >>> or unsubscribe) >>> >>> >>> >>> >> > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing > committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or > unsubscribe) > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From nagarajpaturi at gmail.com Tue Oct 18 06:15:40 2016 From: nagarajpaturi at gmail.com (Nagaraj Paturi) Date: Tue, 18 Oct 16 11:45:40 +0530 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Sexual Harassment In-Reply-To: Message-ID: >What normative boundaries of, e.g., ?legal? types of marriage such as *r?k?asa *and* pi??ca* ? clear cases of ?rape? in Western terms I suppose ? needed to be transgressed that facts of rape would have been considered as fulfilled in premodern India? ------ The eight types of marriage and their 'legality' is textual, mythological to be more precise and need not necessarily correspond to any practice any historical reality. Real marriage practices among various castes and tribes of India have been studied by Anthropologists both Indian and western working on Indian society. In all these studies, each marriage type found in Indian community is studied in comparison to the communities in other parts of the world. Marriage by 'force' in these studies is reported from certain tribes and the researchers take care to note that in the current practice such formats remain to be enacted symbolically and no real 'force' is used. On Tue, Oct 18, 2016 at 11:23 AM, patrick mccartney wrote: > The term 'eve teasing' apparently was first used in the 1960s. Although I > have never been able to find out by whom it was coined. The answer is in > part found here : "Eve > teasing" is used in India to refer to a wide variety of behaviour including > molestation, "flashing" or any verbal/physical sexual street harassment > that falls short of rape. > > But this from wikipedia sums > it up: According to them, considering the semantic roots of the term in Indian > English , Eve teasing > refers to the temptress nature of Eve, placing responsibility on the woman > as a tease.[10] > > More importantly, it represents the 'woman as ?temptress? who was > complicit in her own downfall... [and] is actually a denial that it is sexual > violence > > '. > > Also, the term is not found in the Indian Penal Code. > > I don't know, but perhaps it has something to do with the perception that > 'rape' etc occurs in 'India' and not 'Bh?rat' as RSS ideologue Mohan > Bhagwat > is > fond of saying. And that it is because it is perceived as a cultural > import from Abrahamic religions > > that have 'dominated' and 'enslaved' the region for several centuries. > Ultimately, this anti-social behaviour is perceived as a result of 'Western > values' and not a local practice. It is considered a colonial byproduct. > This helps create a moral panic to stimulate an anti-western agenda. A > return to 'core/true' Indian values is considered the answer to this > problem. At least in the eyes of the Sangh Parivar. > > Perhaps this is a result of the final stage of Srinivas' Sanskritization > theory, i.e. Westernization? Bhagwat further qualified his essentialised > remark stating that the 'pure village' is devoid of assaults but the > sullied (i.e. Westernised) urban centres > > are where assaults occur. > > > > > > All the best, > > Patrick McCartney, PhD > Fellow > School of Culture, History & Language > College of the Asia-Pacific > The Australian National University > Canberra, Australia, 0200 > > > Skype - psdmccartney > Phone + Whatsapp: +61 414 954 748 > Twitter - @psdmccartney > > > academia > > - > > Linkedin > > > Edanz > > #yogabodyANU2016 symposium > > > Ep1 - Imagining Sanskrit Land > > Ep 2 - Total-am > > Ep 3 - Jalam ? Chillum > > Ep 4 - It's Time to get Married > > > A Day in our Ashram > > > Stop animation short film of Shakuntala > > > Forced to Clean Human Waste > > One of my favourite song > s > > The Philosophy of Cycling > > > > > > > On Tue, Oct 18, 2016 at 3:32 PM, Walter Slaje wrote: > >> I am sorry the diacritics I use for vedic accents and the h?cek (inverted >> circumflex) *never* show in my emails. This is beyond my control. My >> apologies for the inconvenience. >> >> >> >> I was also reminded that the thread is ?sexual harrassment?, not ?rape? >> in the strict sense. This is correct. Might I, with your permission, then >> add the innocent question why public sexual harrassment in India is widely >> known as ?Eve teasing?? >> >> The vast majority of victims are Indian girls. So, why an English ? but >> not an Indian ? forename to designate a crime committed by male Indian >> youth gangs against Indian women? >> >> I have never quite understood the background of this bizarre >> denomination. I am afraid in this particular case attempts at linking it to >> the premodern past of India are bound to fail. Are there any explanations >> on offer? >> >> >> >> Yours, cluelessly, >> >> WS >> >> >> 2016-10-17 22:25 GMT+02:00 Artur Karp : >> >>> > Iva Fiser >>> >>> Let's please retain Prof. *Ivo **Fi?er*'s Czech family name. >>> >>> Artur K. >>> >>> 2016-10-17 22:17 GMT+02:00 farkhondeh iran via INDOLOGY < >>> indology at list.indology.info>: >>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> INDOLOGY mailing list >>>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info >>>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing >>>> committee) >>>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options >>>> or unsubscribe) >>>> >>>> >>>> ---------- Wiadomo?? przekazana dalej ---------- >>>> From: farkhondeh iran >>>> To: Walter Slaje >>>> Cc: Nityanand Misra , indology < >>>> indology at list.indology.info> >>>> Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2016 22:16:11 +0200 >>>> Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] Sexual Harassment >>>> >>>> If I may again, I agree with Prof. Slaje on the danger of anachronism >>>> and the need to go back to the Sanskrit words. The word kany?-d??a?a does >>>> not occur in KSS XII, 2, 105 cd but the Sanskrit is crystal-clear: it is a >>>> case of abuse as the girl is not willing and as the vidy?dhara has >>>> undertaken to abduct her by force. >>>> >>>> upetya t?m anicchant?m ha?h?d dhartum prav?ttav?n, KSS XII, 2, 105, cd >>>> I. Farkhondeh >>>> >>>> Le 17 oct. 2016 ? 21:54, Walter Slaje a ?crit : >>>> >>>> Before rashly jumping to a discussion of ?rape? by tacitly presupposing >>>> a 21st century Western understanding of its concept and performance >>>> also for ancient India, a clarification is required of the concept(s) of >>>> ?rape? prevailing in premodern Indian thought. What unambiguous words and >>>> matching notions have so far been recorded that would correspond to "rape" >>>> in accordance with modern Western standards? What normative boundaries of, >>>> e.g., ?legal? types of marriage such as *r?k?asa *and* pi??ca* ? clear >>>> cases of ?rape? in Western terms I suppose ? needed to be transgressed that >>>> facts of rape would have been considered as fulfilled in premodern India? >>>> Was *kany?-d??a?a* the same as ?rape? in our understanding, or simply >>>> the spoiling of a virgin so that she could no longer be married off and >>>> became a serious damage to her parents? >>>> >>>> In what way can the absolute power a husband would have exercised over >>>> his wife (or wives) be categorised in contexts of "rape"? >>>> >>>> Is there any connecting factor of the past that could be related to the >>>> extraordinarily high number of filed gang rape cases in present-day India >>>> as continuously reported by the Indian media? In this latter regard, a good >>>> starting point could perhaps be Gyula Wojtilla's "Women at Work and >>>> Their Enemies. A Reappraisal of the K?mas?tra V, 5, 5 ? 10" (I lack the >>>> bibliographic citation of his paper at the moment). >>>> >>>> >>>> In a more general sense, B?U (M) VI 4,7 could also be revealing*, *if >>>> just *ati-?kram* is not understood in line with ?a?kara?s unconvincing >>>> attempts at downplaying the matter, but in accordance with Iva Fiser's ?overcome >>>> her forcibly? (*Indian Erotics of the Oldest Period*, Praha 1966: 116, >>>> a book not without its merits). >>>> >>>> >>>> Regards, >>>> >>>> WS >>>> >>>> ----------------------------- >>>> Prof. Dr. Walter Slaje >>>> Hermann-L?ns-Str. 1 >>>> D-99425 Weimar >>>> Deutschland >>>> >>>> >>>> 2016-10-17 20:08 GMT+02:00 Nityanand Misra : >>>> >>>>> >>>>> On 17 October 2016 at 22:48, Artur Karp wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Dear All, >>>>>> >>>>>> Should I understand that there are no traces, no mentions of sexual >>>>>> harrasment in the entire - vast - corpus of ancient/medieval Indian >>>>>> literature? >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> A search for *rape* as the Text Word in the Puranic Encylopedia under >>>>> http://www.sanskrit-lexicon.uni-koeln.de/scans/PEScan/2014/w >>>>> eb/webtc2/index.php shows up the following: >>>>> >>>>> Rape of Rambh? by R?va?a (VR, UK). >>>>> Rape [sic] of Vedavat? by R?va?a (VR, UK). In the VR, it is harassment >>>>> but not rape. Probably the rape is described in some other R. >>>>> Rape of Madanama?jar? by R?va?a (source?) >>>>> Rape of Ca?cal?k?? by R?va?a (KambaR) >>>>> Rape of Ar?, daughter of ?ukra, by Da??a (VR UK) >>>>> Rape of Ugrasena's wife by the *Gandharva* Dramila (SB, 10th Canto) >>>>> Attempt to rape Vinayavat? by Ra?gam?l? (Kath?sarits?gara) >>>>> Attempt to rape Pramati by Nala, friend of Sudeva (M?rka??eya Pur??a) >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> INDOLOGY mailing list >>>>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info >>>>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing >>>>> committee) >>>>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options >>>>> or unsubscribe) >>>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> INDOLOGY mailing list >>>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info >>>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing >>>> committee) >>>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options >>>> or unsubscribe) >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> INDOLOGY mailing list >> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info >> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing >> committee) >> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or >> unsubscribe) >> > > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing > committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or > unsubscribe) > -- Nagaraj Paturi Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA. Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of Liberal Education, (Pune, Maharashtra, INDIA ) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From nmisra at gmail.com Tue Oct 18 06:39:00 2016 From: nmisra at gmail.com (Nityanand Misra) Date: Tue, 18 Oct 16 12:09:00 +0530 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Sexual Harassment In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On 18 October 2016 at 11:21, Nityanand Misra wrote: > > > A similar use of the term eve occurs in Indian (maybe South Asian?) > English in sports. Since my childhood (1980s), I have noted that newspapers > in India often refer to Indian women's team in team sports as *Indian > eves*. I doubt if this usage is common outside India/South Asia. A few > recent examples: > > > Here is an article in The Hindu from 2003 which uses the word eve in its headline in the sense of a woman. *Eve who dons villain's garb* http://www.thehindu.com/thehindu/mp/2003/05/29/stories/2003052900970200.htm -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From audrey.truschke at gmail.com Tue Oct 18 15:40:45 2016 From: audrey.truschke at gmail.com (Audrey Truschke) Date: Tue, 18 Oct 16 11:40:45 -0400 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Christian Novetzke's new book on Vernacularization, Religion, and the Premodern Public Sphere in India Message-ID: List members may be interested in Christian Novetzke's new book, just out: https://www.amazon.com/Quotidian-Revolution-Vernacularization-Religion-Premodern/dp/0231175809 Audrey Truschke Assistant Professor Department of History Rutgers University-Newark -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From e.ciurtin at gmail.com Tue Oct 18 22:59:16 2016 From: e.ciurtin at gmail.com (Eugen Ciurtin) Date: Wed, 19 Oct 16 01:59:16 +0300 Subject: [INDOLOGY] crossing oceans? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Dear Colleagues, Max M?ller has an anecdotic reply from 1899, reporting in fact the visits of Indians to Paris in the 1840s, when he was a pupil of Burnouf: My Indian friend Dvarkanath Tagore, though not learned, was very intelligent, and a man of the world. He rather looked down on the Brahmans, and when I asked him whether he would have to perform penance, or Prayascitta, after his return to India, he laughed and said, "No. I am all this time feeding a large number of Brahmans at home, and that is quite penance enough!" The real penance was, of course, the Pancagavya, the five products of the cow which the penitent had to swallow before he could be readmitted to his caste; and these products were not only milk, sour milk, and clarified butter, but likewise other products, such as Mutra and Gomaya. That penance still exists, and many of our Indian visitors have had to undergo it after their return, though at present the five products of the cow are reduced to infinitesimal proportions and swallowed in the shape of a gilded pill. *Auld lang syne*, Second series: My Indian friends, London: Scribner, 1899, p. 12. With every good wish, Eugen Ciurtin (Institute for the History of Religions, Bucharest) 2016-10-14 14:12 GMT+03:00 Manu Francis : > Dear Dominik, > > > Whatever the history of the ban on sea travel, the ?bank? (of a river, but > also of an ocean) metaphor is also used to describe learned people. See > p?rad??van (M-W: ?one who has seen the oppositive shore, far-seeing, wise, > completely familiar with or versed in?), i.e. one who understood the whole > thing. Dro?a for instance is described in a Pallava inscription as > *b???stravedacaturar??avap?radr??v?*, literally ?who has seen the other > bank of the fourfold ocean that the Veda about the bow is.? > > > Attaining mok?a is reaching the other bank of the ?ocean of sa?s?ra?. In > a buddhist context, the Buddha recollected all his previous lifes, before > his nirv??a. > > > As for more on ocean as vastness, totality, completude, see the title > Kath?sarits?gara, or the very conventional description in epigraphy of > universal sovereigns as ruling or being famous up to the three/four/seven > oceans, i.e. in the whole world. See also some of the birudas of > Narasi?havarman II Pallava (8th c.): J??nas?gara, ?Ocean of knowledge?, > Kal?samudra, ?Ocean of artistic skills?. > > > With very best wishes. > > > -- > > Emmanuel Francis > Charg? de recherche CNRS, Centre d'?tude de l'Inde et de l'Asie du Sud > (UMR 8564, EHESS-CNRS, Paris) > http://ceias.ehess.fr/ > http://ceias.ehess.fr/index.php?1725 > http://rcsi.hypotheses.org/ > Associate member, Centre for the Study of Manuscript Culture (SFB 950, > Universit?t Hamburg) > http://www.manuscript-cultures.uni-hamburg.de/index_e.html > https://cnrs.academia.edu/emmanuelfrancis > > 2016-10-14 12:03 GMT+02:00 Matthew Kapstein : > >> Some of the social complexity of sea travel in and out of 19th c. India, >> focusing on Kolkata >> and Mumbai (and Canton), is of course now entertainingly reborn in Amitav >> Ghosh's Ibis Trilogy...... >> >> Matthew Kapstein >> Directeur d'?tudes, >> Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes >> >> Numata Visiting Professor of Buddhist Studies, >> The University of Chicago >> ------------------------------ >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> INDOLOGY mailing list >> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info >> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing >> committee) >> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or >> unsubscribe) >> > > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing > committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or > unsubscribe) > -- Dr E. Ciurtin Secretary of the Romanian Association for the History of Religions Publications Officer of the European Association for the Study of Religions www.easr.eu Lecturer & Secretary of the Scientific Council Institute for the History of Religions, Romanian Academy Calea 13 Septembrie no. 13 sect. 5, Bucharest 050711 Phone: 00 40 733 951 953 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From hspier.muktabodha at gmail.com Wed Oct 19 03:23:08 2016 From: hspier.muktabodha at gmail.com (Harry Spier) Date: Tue, 18 Oct 16 23:23:08 -0400 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Articles needed In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I have all the articles now except for the article on the word viniyoga Thank you to Dieter Gunkel,Natalia Korneeva, Borayin Larios, On Thu, Oct 13, 2016 at 11:54 PM, Harry Spier wrote: > Dear list members, > > I came across two articles in academia.edu (probably by list members) > that I unfortunately didn't download and can't find anymore. If anyone can > give me either the links to them or the pdfs I'd be grateful.The titles > were something like > a) Vocatives for nomanitives, vocatives replacing nominatives > b) viniyoga > > Also if anyone can point me to any; articles on the word "Guru" > particularly about its linguistic history in becoming the word for > "teacher, preceptor". > > Thank you, > Harry Spier > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From philipp.a.maas at gmail.com Wed Oct 19 08:27:28 2016 From: philipp.a.maas at gmail.com (Philipp Maas) Date: Wed, 19 Oct 16 10:27:28 +0200 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Monier Williams Online Message-ID: Dear Colleagues, Since yesterday the online version of Monier-Williams? Sanskrit-English dictionary at http://www.sanskrit-lexicon.uni-koeln.de/scans/MWScan/2014/web/webtc/indexcaller.php does not work any more (at least for me). Whatever word I search, the result is ?not found,? although the input is correct. Does anybody else experience the same problem? Many thanks for your reply, Philipp Maas __________________________ Dr. Philipp A. Maas Research Associate Insitut f?r Indologie und Zentralasienwissenschaften Universit?t Leipzig ___________________________ https://spp1448.academia.edu/PhilippMaas -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From shrimaitreya at gmail.com Wed Oct 19 08:35:19 2016 From: shrimaitreya at gmail.com ((Maitreya) Borayin Larios) Date: Wed, 19 Oct 16 10:35:19 +0200 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Monier Williams Online In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Dear Philipp, I also have the same issue since yesterday. The old version still works though: http://www.sanskrit-lexicon.uni-koeln.de/scans/MWScan/tamil/index.html Best wishes, Borayin [image: --] Borayin Maitreya Larios [image: http://]about.me/borayin.larios J?gerpfad 13 69118 Heidelberg Germany Office: (+49) 6221548939 Mobile: (+49) 17672329143 http://www.sai.uni-heidelberg.de/abt/IND/mitarbeiter/larios/larios.php On Wed, Oct 19, 2016 at 10:27 AM, Philipp Maas wrote: > Dear Colleagues, > > Since yesterday the online version of Monier-Williams? Sanskrit-English > dictionary at http://www.sanskrit-lexicon.uni-koeln.de/scans/MWScan/ > 2014/web/webtc/indexcaller.php does not work any more (at least for me). > Whatever word I search, the result is ?not found,? although the input is > correct. Does anybody else experience the same problem? > > > > Many thanks for your reply, > > > > Philipp Maas > __________________________ > > Dr. Philipp A. Maas > Research Associate > Insitut f?r Indologie und Zentralasienwissenschaften > Universit?t Leipzig > ___________________________ > > https://spp1448.academia.edu/PhilippMaas > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing > committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or > unsubscribe) > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From franco at uni-leipzig.de Wed Oct 19 08:38:39 2016 From: franco at uni-leipzig.de (Eli Franco) Date: Wed, 19 Oct 16 10:38:39 +0200 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Monier Williams Online In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20161019103839.Horde.vfl4ybBBIpbu7xT7F_SD4w1@mail.uni-leipzig.de> Dear Phillip, It works for me. Try http://www.sanskrit-lexicon.uni-koeln.de/monier/ without /scans etc. Best wishes, Eli Zitat von Philipp Maas : > Dear Colleagues, > > Since yesterday the online version of Monier-Williams? Sanskrit-English > dictionary at > http://www.sanskrit-lexicon.uni-koeln.de/scans/MWScan/2014/web/webtc/indexcaller.php > does not work any more (at least for me). Whatever word I search, the > result is ?not found,? although the input is correct. Does anybody else > experience the same problem? > > > > Many thanks for your reply, > > > > Philipp Maas > __________________________ > > Dr. Philipp A. Maas > Research Associate > Insitut f?r Indologie und Zentralasienwissenschaften > Universit?t Leipzig > ___________________________ > > https://spp1448.academia.edu/PhilippMaas -- Prof. Dr. Eli Franco Institut f?r Indologie und Zentralasienwissenschaften Schillerstr. 6 04109 Leipzig Ph. +49 341 9737 121, 9737 120 (dept. office) Fax +49 341 9737 148 From christophe.vielle at uclouvain.be Wed Oct 19 08:58:49 2016 From: christophe.vielle at uclouvain.be (Christophe Vielle) Date: Wed, 19 Oct 16 10:58:49 +0200 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Monier Williams Online In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <72A94009-FEBE-4B76-B8FF-A4AEC10100ED@uclouvain.be> It is also possible to search in Monier-Williams at: http://sanskrit.inria.fr/DICO/index.html select "Monier-Williams" (this useful tool by displaying pages gives more than the needed item) or http://sanskritlibrary.org/integratedDictionaries.html select "Monier-Williams" or http://www.andhrabharati.com/dictionary/sanskrit/index.php select "Monier-Williams" or http://sanskrita.org/wiki/index.php/rAma?setlang=es also http://sanskritdictionary.com or http://www.oldict.com/dict_678/ Le 19 oct. 2016 ? 10:35, (Maitreya) Borayin Larios a ?crit : > Dear Philipp, > > I also have the same issue since yesterday. > The old version still works though: http://www.sanskrit-lexicon.uni-koeln.de/scans/MWScan/tamil/index.html > > Best wishes, > Borayin > > > > Borayin Maitreya Larios > about.me/borayin.larios > > > > J?gerpfad 13 > 69118 Heidelberg > Germany > Office: (+49) 6221548939 > Mobile: (+49) 17672329143 > http://www.sai.uni-heidelberg.de/abt/IND/mitarbeiter/larios/larios.php > > On Wed, Oct 19, 2016 at 10:27 AM, Philipp Maas wrote: > Dear Colleagues, > > Since yesterday the online version of Monier-Williams? Sanskrit-English dictionary at http://www.sanskrit-lexicon.uni-koeln.de/scans/MWScan/2014/web/webtc/indexcaller.php does not work any more (at least for me). Whatever word I search, the result is ?not found,? although the input is correct. Does anybody else experience the same problem? > > > Many thanks for your reply, > > > Philipp Maas > > __________________________ > > Dr. Philipp A. Maas > Research Associate > Insitut f?r Indologie und Zentralasienwissenschaften > Universit?t Leipzig > ___________________________ > > https://spp1448.academia.edu/PhilippMaas > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) ??????????????????? Christophe Vielle Louvain-la-Neuve -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From philipp.a.maas at gmail.com Wed Oct 19 09:05:04 2016 From: philipp.a.maas at gmail.com (Philipp Maas) Date: Wed, 19 Oct 16 11:05:04 +0200 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Monier Williams Online In-Reply-To: <20161019103839.Horde.vfl4ybBBIpbu7xT7F_SD4w1@mail.uni-leipzig.de> Message-ID: Many thanks to all who responded so quickly to my query concerning the online version of Monier-Williams? Sanskrit-English dictionary. Apparently the link from the index site of dictionaries at http://www.sanskrit-lexicon.uni-koeln.de/ leads to version of the dictionary that does not work. The version available at http://www.sanskrit-lexicon.uni-koeln.de/scans/MW72Scan/2014/web/webtc/indexcaller.php, to which Fran?ois Patte kindly drew my attention, works perfectly well. Best wishes, Philipp Maas __________________________ Dr. Philipp A. Maas Research Associate Insitut f?r Indologie und Zentralasienwissenschaften Universit?t Leipzig ___________________________ https://spp1448.academia.edu/PhilippMaas 2016-10-19 10:38 GMT+02:00 Eli Franco : > Dear Phillip, > It works for me. Try > http://www.sanskrit-lexicon.uni-koeln.de/monier/ > without /scans etc. > Best wishes, > Eli > > Zitat von Philipp Maas : > > Dear Colleagues, >> >> Since yesterday the online version of Monier-Williams? Sanskrit-English >> dictionary at >> http://www.sanskrit-lexicon.uni-koeln.de/scans/MWScan/2014/ >> web/webtc/indexcaller.php >> does not work any more (at least for me). Whatever word I search, the >> result is ?not found,? although the input is correct. Does anybody else >> experience the same problem? >> >> >> >> Many thanks for your reply, >> >> >> >> Philipp Maas >> __________________________ >> >> Dr. Philipp A. Maas >> Research Associate >> Insitut f?r Indologie und Zentralasienwissenschaften >> Universit?t Leipzig >> ___________________________ >> >> https://spp1448.academia.edu/PhilippMaas >> > > > -- > Prof. Dr. Eli Franco > Institut f?r Indologie und Zentralasienwissenschaften > Schillerstr. 6 > 04109 Leipzig > > Ph. +49 341 9737 121, 9737 120 (dept. office) > Fax +49 341 9737 148 > > > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing > committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or > unsubscribe) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From hr at ivs.edu Wed Oct 19 09:25:50 2016 From: hr at ivs.edu (Howard Resnick) Date: Wed, 19 Oct 16 05:25:50 -0400 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Monier Williams Online In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I had the same problem, hr > On Oct 19, 2016, at 4:27 AM, Philipp Maas wrote: > > Dear Colleagues, > > Since yesterday the online version of Monier-Williams? Sanskrit-English dictionary at http://www.sanskrit-lexicon.uni-koeln.de/scans/MWScan/2014/web/webtc/indexcaller.php does not work any more (at least for me). Whatever word I search, the result is ?not found,? although the input is correct. Does anybody else experience the same problem? > > > Many thanks for your reply, > > > Philipp Maas > > __________________________ > > Dr. Philipp A. Maas > Research Associate > Insitut f?r Indologie und Zentralasienwissenschaften > Universit?t Leipzig > ___________________________ > > https://spp1448.academia.edu/PhilippMaas > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jemhouben at gmail.com Wed Oct 19 10:28:17 2016 From: jemhouben at gmail.com (Jan E.M. Houben) Date: Wed, 19 Oct 16 12:28:17 +0200 Subject: =?utf-8?B?W0lORE9MT0dZXSB5b3VyIOCkhuCkp+ClgeCkqOCkv+CkleCkquClgeCko+CljeCkr+CkquCkpOCljeCkpOCkqOCkruCkvuCkueCkvuCkpOCljeCkruCljeCkr+CkruCljSDEgWRodW5pa2FwdeG5h3lhcGF0dGFuYW3EgWjEgXRteWFtIC8vLyBSZTogIE15IGVuY291bnRlcnMgd2l0aCB0aGUgbmV3IFB1bmU=?= Message-ID: Dear Madhav, For a senior colleague who has been visiting Pune for over 40 years, usually 2-3 months per year, I have collected all your recent verses on Pune. I have found in messages between 19 and 23 June: 42 verses, 4 in ??rd?lavikr??ita 38 in ?loka/vaktra, mostly in regular form (pathy?, the form which ?follows the path?, what Jacobi in 1885 called their ?gew?hnlichste Form?), the number of vipul?s does not exceed 10-12%. Please allow me to express in my own little ?loka my gratitude for your brilliance; generosity and 'good-heartedness' (sauhrdya) thanks to which we all can have a 'vision' of modern Pune: ??????? ??? ???? ????? ????????? ?????? ? ???? ?????????????? ??????? ???????????? ? dhanyatam? vaya? hanta ye??? nas t?dr?a? suhrt / yasya s?dh?ktak?vyena pa?y?ma? pu?yapattanam // Jan NB a calendar with photographs of Old Pune (ca. 1950s) can be ordered at paperleafpune at gmail.com jbhatawadekar at gmail.com *Jan E.M. HOUBEN* Directeur d??tudes Sources et histoire de la tradition sanskrite *?cole Pratique des Hautes ?tudes* *Sciences historiques et philologiques * 54, rue Saint-Jacques CS 20525 ? 75005 Paris johannes.houben at ephe.sorbonne.fr https://ephe-sorbonne.academia.edu/JanEMHouben www.ephe.fr 2016-06-24 1:09 GMT+02:00 Jesse Knutson : > Dear Madhav-mahodaya, As I have already told you off list, I find these > poems really beautiful and extraordinary. I especially loved > 'gallIbh??a?a...', but also found these ones about running into your old > playmate really delightful. The poems appeal to me so much because of their > simplicity, unabashed modernity, and playful wit. They definitely merit > publication as a collection and it will really be a gift to modern Sanskrit > literature. ??????,J > > 2016-06-23 11:27 GMT-10:00 Madhav Deshpande : > >> My encounters in the new Pune >> >> ??? ????? ??????? ????? ??????? ??? ??? ? >> ????????? ????? ??? ??????????? ??? ??? ?? >> "Whenever I go to the Pune City, then my ancientness obstructs me at >> every step." >> >> ???????? ???????? ?????? ?????? ???????? ? >> ? ?????????? ?????? ????? ????????: ?? >> "In earlier times, there were Hanuman and Ganesh temples on every street, >> but none of the modern drivers know them." >> >> ??????? ??? ??????????? ????????? ?? ? >> ???????? ??????????? ??????? ??????????? ?? >> The driver says: "Tell me some new name that I know, some place of >> Chinese food, or some famous shop," >> >> ?????????? ????????? ??????????? ???????? ? >> ?? ???????? ?? ?????? ?????? ??? ????????????? ?? >> "Or, some Pizza place, or drama house, or dance studio, or a wine shop. >> Tell me some place that I know where you wish to go." >> >> ????????? ?????? ????, ? ?????? ??? ????? ? >> ??? ????? ????????? ?????????? ??????????? ?? >> When he says this, I become silent. I don't know this new city. How can I >> go anywhere in this new Pune? >> >> ?????? ????????? ???: ???????????????? ???? ? >> ? ?? ???? ??? ??????, ? ? ?????? ?????? ?? >> The city where I was born and educated many years ago, that city does not >> know me, and I don't know it. >> >> ??????? ??? ????? ????????? ?? ????????? ??? ? >> ?? ???? ?????? ???? ??????? ???????????? ?? >> The Pune city that I always remember is mostly forgotten here. The city >> that exists here is a different Pune city. >> >> ??????? ??? ?????????? ?? ?? ???? ????? ? >> ??? ????????? ????, ? ?? ?? ???? ?????? ?? >> I remember the Pune city that lives in my mind, and the city that I visit >> now is not in my memory. >> >> ????????? ??????? ? ???? ????????? ? >> ??? ???? ??????? ??? ????????,? ??? ?????????? ?? >> I arrive from an ancient past and don't recognize the new city. The new >> city asks me: "who are you?" What shall I do? >> >> ???????? ???: ??????:, ?????? ????? ???: ? >> ???? ????? ?? ???? ???????? ????????????? ?? >> The driver says to me: "Where have you come from? You do speak Marathi, >> and yet your speech appears to be somewhat old fashioned." >> >> ????? ??????? ?????? ?????? ?? ????????????????? ? >> ???????? ????????? ????? ?????? ????? ??? ?? >> "You speak like Lokmanya Tilak or like Vishnushastri Chiplunkar. In this >> city no one now speaks like that." >> >> ?????????? ????? ???? ?????????????? ?????? ? >> ??????? ????? ??????? ?????????? ?????? ?? >> "Where does this old fashioned Marathi continue to be spoken? Why do you >> even now speak this old fashioned Marathi?" >> >> ??? ???????? ? ?????? ??? ???????? ??????? ? >> ???????? ??? ????? ??????: ????????????? ?? >> Hearing this, I don't know what to say, since I did leave the Pune city >> long ago. >> >> ??? ?? ??????? ????? ???? ??????? ? >> ??? ????? ?????? ???? ????? ???????? ?? >> The old Marathi language came with me. I only know that old Marathi >> language, and continue to speak the same." >> >> ???????????? ??? ?????????? ? ?? ????????: ? >> ??????????????????????? ?????????? ?????? ?? >> "Let it be" said the driver to me and he, with a compassionate heart, >> brought me to the desired place. >> >> ??? ??????? ??????? ?????????: ???? ??: ? >> ? ? ????????????????, ??????????????????? ?????? ?? >> Even after reaching the desired place, I still don't know by which roads >> the driver took me there, how I came or went. >> >> ? ??? ?????????????? ?????????? ????? ? >> ??? ????? ???? ???? ???? ???? ????????? ?? >> No one recognizes me, and I don't recognize anyone. Thinking thus I >> wander in this city here and there. >> >> ???????????????????????????? ???????? ????? ? >> ?????????????? ??? ? ??? ?????????? ????????? ?? >> Someone said to me from the side: "You look like my friend. Where are you >> from and what is your name?" >> >> ?????????????????? ????? ???????: ? >> ?? ??????? ?????? ?? ?????????: ??? ?? >> I said: "I have been living in Ann Arbor, USA, for a long time, and so my >> similarity with your friend may be purely accidental." >> >> ????????? ??????? ?????? ?????????? ???? ? >> ?????????????: ?????? ?????? ????? ???? ?? >> He said: "My friend Madhav Deshpande went to America fifty years ago, but >> why do you look like him?" >> >> ??????????????? ??? ?????? ?????????????????: ? >> ? ?? ?????????????, ???????, ?????? ??? ????? ?? >> Having heard that, I said: "I am Madhav Deshpande from America, but I >> don't recognize you. Who are you, and how do you know me?" >> >> ?? ?? ??? ? ?????? ??? ?????????? ??? ? >> ???????? ??? ??????????????? ????????? ?? >> He said: "Oh Friend, how come you don't recognize me, your school-mate? I >> am Bandu with whom you used to play day and night." >> >> ????????? ??? ?????? ??? ??????????? ??: ? >> ?????????? ??? ???? ?? ??????? ???????????? ?? >> Having embraced Bandu, I said to him: "I did not recognize you, because >> you now look totally bald." >> >> ??? ?????????????? ??? ???? ??????? ? >> ????? ??????? ?????????? ???????? ?? >> "How will I recognize you after such a long time. Still, by God's grace, >> we did meet each other, and that is beautiful." >> >> ?????????? ???????????? ??????? ????? ??????? ? >> ????? ?????????????????? ???????? ?? >> Thus, in this Pune city, a meeting with friends does occasionally happen >> by good fortune, and that makes me happy. >> >> -- >> Madhav M. Deshpande >> Professor of Sanskrit and Linguistics >> Department of Asian Languages and Cultures >> 202 South Thayer Street, Suite 6111 >> The University of Michigan >> Ann Arbor, MI 48104-1608, USA >> >> _______________________________________________ >> INDOLOGY mailing list >> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info >> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing >> committee) >> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or >> unsubscribe) >> > > > > -- > Jesse Ross Knutson PhD > Assistant Professor of Sanskrit and Bengali, Department of Indo-Pacific > Languages and Literatures > University of Hawai'i at M?noa > 461 Spalding > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing > committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or > unsubscribe) > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mmdesh at umich.edu Wed Oct 19 10:46:14 2016 From: mmdesh at umich.edu (Madhav Deshpande) Date: Wed, 19 Oct 16 06:46:14 -0400 Subject: =?utf-8?B?UmU6IFtJTkRPTE9HWV0geW91ciDgpIbgpKfgpYHgpKjgpL/gpJXgpKrgpYHgpKPgpY3gpK/gpKrgpKTgpY3gpKTgpKjgpK7gpL7gpLngpL7gpKTgpY3gpK7gpY3gpK/gpK7gpY0gxIFkaHVuaWthcHXhuYd5YXBhdHRhbmFtxIFoxIF0bXlhbSAvLy8gUmU6ICBNeSBlbmNvdW50ZXJzIHdpdGggdGhlIG5ldyBQdW5l?= In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Dear Jan, I am so glad to hear that you liked my poems on Pune, and your own poem is wonderful. My poems on Pune were published recently in the Online Sanskrit magazine Prachi Prajna. I am attaching a pdf of this publication. Best, Madhav 2016-10-19 6:28 GMT-04:00 Jan E.M. Houben : > Dear Madhav, > For a senior colleague who has been visiting Pune for over 40 years, > usually 2-3 months per year, I have collected all your recent verses on > Pune. > I have found in messages between 19 and 23 June: > 42 verses, > 4 in ??rd?lavikr??ita > 38 in ?loka/vaktra, mostly in regular form (pathy?, the form which > ?follows the path?, what Jacobi in 1885 called their ?gew?hnlichste Form?), > the number of vipul?s does not exceed 10-12%. > Please allow me to express in my own little ?loka my gratitude for your > brilliance; generosity and 'good-heartedness' (sauhrdya) thanks to which we > all can have a 'vision' of modern Pune: > > ??????? ??? ???? ????? ????????? ?????? ? > > ???? ?????????????? ??????? ???????????? ? > > dhanyatam? vaya? hanta ye??? nas t?dr?a? suhrt / > > yasya s?dh?ktak?vyena pa?y?ma? pu?yapattanam // > > > Jan > > NB a calendar with photographs of Old Pune (ca. 1950s) can be ordered at > paperleafpune at gmail.com > jbhatawadekar at gmail.com > > > > > *Jan E.M. HOUBEN* > > Directeur d??tudes > > Sources et histoire de la tradition sanskrite > > *?cole Pratique des Hautes ?tudes* > > *Sciences historiques et philologiques * > > 54, rue Saint-Jacques > > CS 20525 ? 75005 Paris > > johannes.houben at ephe.sorbonne.fr > > https://ephe-sorbonne.academia.edu/JanEMHouben > > www.ephe.fr > > > 2016-06-24 1:09 GMT+02:00 Jesse Knutson : > >> Dear Madhav-mahodaya, As I have already told you off list, I find these >> poems really beautiful and extraordinary. I especially loved >> 'gallIbh??a?a...', but also found these ones about running into your old >> playmate really delightful. The poems appeal to me so much because of their >> simplicity, unabashed modernity, and playful wit. They definitely merit >> publication as a collection and it will really be a gift to modern Sanskrit >> literature. ??????,J >> >> 2016-06-23 11:27 GMT-10:00 Madhav Deshpande : >> >>> My encounters in the new Pune >>> >>> ??? ????? ??????? ????? ??????? ??? ??? ? >>> ????????? ????? ??? ??????????? ??? ??? ?? >>> "Whenever I go to the Pune City, then my ancientness obstructs me at >>> every step." >>> >>> ???????? ???????? ?????? ?????? ???????? ? >>> ? ?????????? ?????? ????? ????????: ?? >>> "In earlier times, there were Hanuman and Ganesh temples on every >>> street, but none of the modern drivers know them." >>> >>> ??????? ??? ??????????? ????????? ?? ? >>> ???????? ??????????? ??????? ??????????? ?? >>> The driver says: "Tell me some new name that I know, some place of >>> Chinese food, or some famous shop," >>> >>> ?????????? ????????? ??????????? ???????? ? >>> ?? ???????? ?? ?????? ?????? ??? ????????????? ?? >>> "Or, some Pizza place, or drama house, or dance studio, or a wine shop. >>> Tell me some place that I know where you wish to go." >>> >>> ????????? ?????? ????, ? ?????? ??? ????? ? >>> ??? ????? ????????? ?????????? ??????????? ?? >>> When he says this, I become silent. I don't know this new city. How can >>> I go anywhere in this new Pune? >>> >>> ?????? ????????? ???: ???????????????? ???? ? >>> ? ?? ???? ??? ??????, ? ? ?????? ?????? ?? >>> The city where I was born and educated many years ago, that city does >>> not know me, and I don't know it. >>> >>> ??????? ??? ????? ????????? ?? ????????? ??? ? >>> ?? ???? ?????? ???? ??????? ???????????? ?? >>> The Pune city that I always remember is mostly forgotten here. The city >>> that exists here is a different Pune city. >>> >>> ??????? ??? ?????????? ?? ?? ???? ????? ? >>> ??? ????????? ????, ? ?? ?? ???? ?????? ?? >>> I remember the Pune city that lives in my mind, and the city that I >>> visit now is not in my memory. >>> >>> ????????? ??????? ? ???? ????????? ? >>> ??? ???? ??????? ??? ????????,? ??? ?????????? ?? >>> I arrive from an ancient past and don't recognize the new city. The new >>> city asks me: "who are you?" What shall I do? >>> >>> ???????? ???: ??????:, ?????? ????? ???: ? >>> ???? ????? ?? ???? ???????? ????????????? ?? >>> The driver says to me: "Where have you come from? You do speak Marathi, >>> and yet your speech appears to be somewhat old fashioned." >>> >>> ????? ??????? ?????? ?????? ?? ????????????????? ? >>> ???????? ????????? ????? ?????? ????? ??? ?? >>> "You speak like Lokmanya Tilak or like Vishnushastri Chiplunkar. In this >>> city no one now speaks like that." >>> >>> ?????????? ????? ???? ?????????????? ?????? ? >>> ??????? ????? ??????? ?????????? ?????? ?? >>> "Where does this old fashioned Marathi continue to be spoken? Why do you >>> even now speak this old fashioned Marathi?" >>> >>> ??? ???????? ? ?????? ??? ???????? ??????? ? >>> ???????? ??? ????? ??????: ????????????? ?? >>> Hearing this, I don't know what to say, since I did leave the Pune city >>> long ago. >>> >>> ??? ?? ??????? ????? ???? ??????? ? >>> ??? ????? ?????? ???? ????? ???????? ?? >>> The old Marathi language came with me. I only know that old Marathi >>> language, and continue to speak the same." >>> >>> ???????????? ??? ?????????? ? ?? ????????: ? >>> ??????????????????????? ?????????? ?????? ?? >>> "Let it be" said the driver to me and he, with a compassionate heart, >>> brought me to the desired place. >>> >>> ??? ??????? ??????? ?????????: ???? ??: ? >>> ? ? ????????????????, ??????????????????? ?????? ?? >>> Even after reaching the desired place, I still don't know by which roads >>> the driver took me there, how I came or went. >>> >>> ? ??? ?????????????? ?????????? ????? ? >>> ??? ????? ???? ???? ???? ???? ????????? ?? >>> No one recognizes me, and I don't recognize anyone. Thinking thus I >>> wander in this city here and there. >>> >>> ???????????????????????????? ???????? ????? ? >>> ?????????????? ??? ? ??? ?????????? ????????? ?? >>> Someone said to me from the side: "You look like my friend. Where are >>> you from and what is your name?" >>> >>> ?????????????????? ????? ???????: ? >>> ?? ??????? ?????? ?? ?????????: ??? ?? >>> I said: "I have been living in Ann Arbor, USA, for a long time, and so >>> my similarity with your friend may be purely accidental." >>> >>> ????????? ??????? ?????? ?????????? ???? ? >>> ?????????????: ?????? ?????? ????? ???? ?? >>> He said: "My friend Madhav Deshpande went to America fifty years ago, >>> but why do you look like him?" >>> >>> ??????????????? ??? ?????? ?????????????????: ? >>> ? ?? ?????????????, ???????, ?????? ??? ????? ?? >>> Having heard that, I said: "I am Madhav Deshpande from America, but I >>> don't recognize you. Who are you, and how do you know me?" >>> >>> ?? ?? ??? ? ?????? ??? ?????????? ??? ? >>> ???????? ??? ??????????????? ????????? ?? >>> He said: "Oh Friend, how come you don't recognize me, your school-mate? >>> I am Bandu with whom you used to play day and night." >>> >>> ????????? ??? ?????? ??? ??????????? ??: ? >>> ?????????? ??? ???? ?? ??????? ???????????? ?? >>> Having embraced Bandu, I said to him: "I did not recognize you, because >>> you now look totally bald." >>> >>> ??? ?????????????? ??? ???? ??????? ? >>> ????? ??????? ?????????? ???????? ?? >>> "How will I recognize you after such a long time. Still, by God's grace, >>> we did meet each other, and that is beautiful." >>> >>> ?????????? ???????????? ??????? ????? ??????? ? >>> ????? ?????????????????? ???????? ?? >>> Thus, in this Pune city, a meeting with friends does occasionally happen >>> by good fortune, and that makes me happy. >>> >>> -- >>> Madhav M. Deshpande >>> Professor of Sanskrit and Linguistics >>> Department of Asian Languages and Cultures >>> 202 South Thayer Street, Suite 6111 >>> The University of Michigan >>> Ann Arbor, MI 48104-1608, USA >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> INDOLOGY mailing list >>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info >>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing >>> committee) >>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options >>> or unsubscribe) >>> >> >> >> >> -- >> Jesse Ross Knutson PhD >> Assistant Professor of Sanskrit and Bengali, Department of Indo-Pacific >> Languages and Literatures >> University of Hawai'i at M?noa >> 461 Spalding >> >> _______________________________________________ >> INDOLOGY mailing list >> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info >> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing >> committee) >> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or >> unsubscribe) >> > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Deshpande-Madhav-Punyapattanikam-Poems-on-Pune.pdf Type: application/pdf Size: 215341 bytes Desc: not available URL: From philipp.a.maas at gmail.com Wed Oct 19 14:38:27 2016 From: philipp.a.maas at gmail.com (Philipp Maas) Date: Wed, 19 Oct 16 16:38:27 +0200 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Monier Williams Online In-Reply-To: <1cc9ae6f-c57c-244b-6046-ef2acb674459@mi.parisdescartes.fr> Message-ID: Dear Colleagues, I am sorry, but the link Fran?ois Patte sent me earlier this day (and which I forwarded too quickly the list) does not lead to the revised edition of 1899, but to the unrevised ed. of 1877. The latest version of the 1899 ed. is still out of order, whereas the earlier version of the 1899 ed., which according to the information provided on the home page ( http://www.sanskrit-lexicon.uni-koeln.de/monier/) is depricated, works apparently fine. Philipp Maas __________________________ Dr. Philipp A. Maas Research Associate Insitut f?r Indologie und Zentralasienwissenschaften Universit?t Leipzig ___________________________ https://spp1448.academia.edu/PhilippMaas -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From alanus1216 at yahoo.com Wed Oct 19 21:03:56 2016 From: alanus1216 at yahoo.com (Allen Thrasher) Date: Wed, 19 Oct 16 21:03:56 +0000 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Sexual Harassment In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <1258866424.1247324.1476911036775@mail.yahoo.com> There was much concern about Eve-teasing both in the national and the local (Poona Herald) English-language press during my first stay in India in 1969 and 1970, and it was never blamed on the young women, so I doubt the use of "Eve" was meant to insinuate they were temptresses and thus to put the responsibility on them. ?It was considered a serious matter. ?On the other hand the press never mentioned it's going beyond words, unlike the present. ?One sometime read of the girls' brothers getting their friends together to physically chastise the offenders. I am on the road and do not have access to an OED or a history of slang, so cannot check whether "Eve" was used earlier as a colloquialism for "woman" or "girl," but it might be worth a look. Was the British woman's magazine "Eve" widely distributed in the subcontinent? Eve might be a model of being a temptress, but she is the mother of us all and therefore also a metonym for womanhood in general, without any disparagement. It is not particularly surprising that S. Asians should go outside Bharatavarsa for an image of womanhood as such, since they have undergone more than two centuries of intense British and Christian influence - and for that matter more than a millenium of influence from Islam, in which Eve also figures. ? Also the figure of the first woman does not play as prominent a role in the Hindu origin stories as Eve in the Abrahamic. Finally, I read somewhere that one of the earlier American ambassadors to India (I think I read this during my first stay) said that there was no country in the world that he would feel safer for his daughter to travel alone in than India. ?It doesn't sound like this is true any more. ?Or was he deceived at the time, the 50s or 60s? Yours, Allen Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android On Tue, Oct 18, 2016 at 12:55 AM, patrick mccartney wrote: The term 'eve teasing' apparently was first used in the 1960s. Although I have never been able to find out by whom it was coined. The answer is in part found?here:?"Eve teasing" is used in India to refer to a wide variety of behaviour including molestation, "flashing" or any verbal/physical sexual street harassment that falls short of rape. But this from?wikipedia?sums it up:?According to them, considering the semantic roots of the term in?Indian English, Eve teasing refers to the temptress nature of Eve, placing responsibility on the woman as a tease.[10] More importantly, it represents the 'woman as ?temptress? who was complicit in her own downfall... [and]?is actually a denial that it is sexual violence'. Also, the term is not found in the Indian Penal Code.? I don't know, but perhaps it has something to do with the perception that 'rape' etc occurs in 'India' and not 'Bh?rat' as RSS ideologue Mohan Bhagwat is fond of saying.? And that it is because it is perceived as a cultural import from Abrahamic religions that have 'dominated' and 'enslaved' the region for several centuries. Ultimately, this anti-social behaviour is perceived as a result of 'Western values' and not a local practice. It is considered a colonial byproduct. This helps create a moral panic to stimulate an anti-western agenda. A return to 'core/true' Indian values is considered the answer to this problem. At least in the eyes of the Sangh Parivar. ?Perhaps this is a result of the final stage of Srinivas' Sanskritization theory, i.e. Westernization? Bhagwat further qualified his essentialised remark stating that the 'pure village' is devoid of assaults but the sullied (i.e. Westernised) urban centres are where assaults occur. ? All the best, Patrick McCartney, PhDFellowSchool of Culture, History & Language College of the Asia-Pacific The Australian National University Canberra, Australia, 0200 Skype - psdmccartneyPhone + Whatsapp: ?+61 414 954 748Twitter - @psdmccartney academia - Linkedin Edanz #yogabodyANU2016 symposium? Ep1 - Imagining Sanskrit Land Ep 2 - Total-am Ep 3 - Jalam ? Chillum Ep 4 - It's Time to get Married A Day in our Ashram Stop animation short film of Shakuntala? Forced to Clean Human Waste One of my favourite songs The Philosophy of Cycling On Tue, Oct 18, 2016 at 3:32 PM, Walter Slaje wrote: I am sorry the diacritics I use for vedic accents and the h?cek(inverted circumflex) never show in my emails. This is beyond mycontrol. My apologies for the inconvenience. ? I was also reminded that the thread is ?sexual harrassment?,not ?rape? in the strict sense. This is correct. Might I, with your permission,then add the innocent question why public sexual harrassment in India is widelyknown as ?Eve teasing?? The vast majority of victims are Indian girls. So, why anEnglish ? but not an Indian ? forename to designate a crime committed by male Indianyouth gangs against Indian women? I have never quite understood the background of this bizarredenomination. I am afraid in this particular case attempts at linking it to thepremodern past of India are bound to fail. Are there any explanations on offer? ? Yours, cluelessly, WS 2016-10-17 22:25 GMT+02:00 Artur Karp : > Iva Fiser Let's please retain Prof. Ivo?Fi?er's Czech family name. Artur K. ? 2016-10-17 22:17 GMT+02:00 farkhondeh iran via INDOLOGY : ______________________________ _________________ INDOLOGY mailing list INDOLOGY at list.indology.info indology-owner at list.indology.i nfo (messages to the list's managing committee) http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) ---------- Wiadomo?? przekazana dalej ---------- From:?farkhondeh iran To:?Walter Slaje Cc:?Nityanand Misra , indology Date:?Mon, 17 Oct 2016 22:16:11 +0200 Subject:?Re: [INDOLOGY] Sexual Harassment If I may again, I agree withProf. Slaje on the danger of anachronism and the need to go back to the Sanskritwords. The word kany?-d??a?a does not occur in KSS XII, 2, 105 cd but the Sanskritis crystal-clear: it is a case of abuse as the girl is not willing and as the vidy?dhara has undertaken to abduct her by force.? upetya t?m anicchant?m ha?h?ddhartum prav?ttav?n, KSS?XII, 2, 105, cd I. Farkhondeh Le 17 oct. 2016 ? 21:54, Walter Slaje a ?crit : Before rashly jumping to a discussion of ?rape? by tacitlypresupposing a 21st century Western understanding of its concept andperformance also for ancient India, a clarification is required of the concept(s)of ?rape? prevailing in premodern Indian thought. What unambiguous words and matchingnotions have so far been recorded that would correspond to "rape" in accordance with modern Western standards? What normative boundariesof, e.g., ?legal? types of marriage such as r?k?asa and pi??ca? clear cases of ?rape? in Western terms I suppose ? needed to be transgressed that factsof rape would have been considered as fulfilled in premodern India? Was kany?-d??a?a the same as ?rape? in our understanding, or simply the spoiling of a virgin so that she couldno longer be married off and became a serious damage to her parents? In what way can theabsolute power a husband would have exercised over his wife (or wives) becategorised in contexts of "rape"? Is there any connecting factor of the past that could be related to the extraordinarily high number of filed gang rape cases in present-day India as continuously reported by the Indian media? In this latter regard, a good starting point could perhaps be Gyula Wojtilla's "Women at Work and Their Enemies. A Reappraisal of the K?mas?tra V, 5, 5 ? 10" (I lack the bibliographic citation of his paper at the moment). In a more general sense, B?U(M) VI 4,7 could also be revealing, if just ati-?kram is not understood in line with ?a?kara?s unconvincing attempts at downplaying the matter, but in accordance with Iva Fiser's ?overcome her forcibly? (Indian Erotics of the Oldest Period, Praha1966: 116, a book not without its merits). Regards, WS ----------------------------- Prof. Dr. Walter Slaje Hermann-L?ns-Str. 1 D-99425 Weimar Deutschland ? 2016-10-17 20:08 GMT+02:00 Nityanand Misra : On 17 October 2016 at 22:48, Artur Karp wrote: Dear All,? Should I understand that there are no traces, no mentions of sexual harrasment in the entire - vast - corpus of ancient/medieval Indian literature? A search for?rape?as the Text Word in the Puranic Encylopedia under http://www.sanskrit-lexicon.un i-koeln.de/scans/PEScan/2014/w eb/webtc2/index.php shows up the following: Rape of Rambh? by?R?va?a (VR, UK). Rape [sic] of?Vedavat? by?R?va?a (VR, UK).?In the VR, it is harassment but not rape. Probably the rape is described in some other R.Rape of Madanama?jar??by R?va?a (source?) Rape of?Ca?cal?k?? by R?va?a (KambaR)Rape of Ar?, daughter of ?ukra, by?Da??a (VR UK) Rape of Ugrasena's wife by the?Gandharva?Dramila (SB, 10th Canto) Attempt to rape Vinayavat? by Ra?gam?l? (Kath?sarits?gara) Attempt to rape Pramati by Nala, friend of Sudeva (M?rka??eya Pur??a) ? ______________________________ _________________ INDOLOGY mailing list INDOLOGY at list.indology.info indology-owner at list.indology.i nfo (messages to the list's managing committee) http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) ______________________________ _________________ INDOLOGY mailing list INDOLOGY at list.indology.info indology-owner at list.indology.i nfo (messages to the list's managing committee) http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) ______________________________ _________________ INDOLOGY mailing list INDOLOGY at list.indology.info indology-owner at list.indology. info (messages to the list's managing committee) http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Palaniappa at aol.com Wed Oct 19 21:20:00 2016 From: Palaniappa at aol.com (Sudalaimuthu Palaniappan) Date: Wed, 19 Oct 16 16:20:00 -0500 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Sexual Harassment In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <32174DA4-4710-4068-BA30-A4C1C5838EA6@aol.com> Remember the Indian magazine, Eve?s Weekly? Regards, Palaniappan > On Oct 19, 2016, at 4:05 PM, Allen Thrasher via INDOLOGY wrote: > > > From: Allen Thrasher > Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] Sexual Harassment > Date: October 19, 2016 at 4:03:56 PM CDT > To: patrick mccartney , Walter Slaje > Cc: indology > Reply-To: "alanus1216 at yahoo.com" > > > There was much concern about Eve-teasing both in the national and the local (Poona Herald) English-language press during my first stay in India in 1969 and 1970, and it was never blamed on the young women, so I doubt the use of "Eve" was meant to insinuate they were temptresses and thus to put the responsibility on them. It was considered a serious matter. On the other hand the press never mentioned it's going beyond words, unlike the present. One sometime read of the girls' brothers getting their friends together to physically chastise the offenders. > > I am on the road and do not have access to an OED or a history of slang, so cannot check whether "Eve" was used earlier as a colloquialism for "woman" or "girl," but it might be worth a look. > > Was the British woman's magazine "Eve" widely distributed in the subcontinent? > > Eve might be a model of being a temptress, but she is the mother of us all and therefore also a metonym for womanhood in general, without any disparagement. > > It is not particularly surprising that S. Asians should go outside Bharatavarsa for an image of womanhood as such, since they have undergone more than two centuries of intense British and Christian influence - and for that matter more than a millenium of influence from Islam, in which Eve also figures. > > Also the figure of the first woman does not play as prominent a role in the Hindu origin stories as Eve in the Abrahamic. > > Finally, I read somewhere that one of the earlier American ambassadors to India (I think I read this during my first stay) said that there was no country in the world that he would feel safer for his daughter to travel alone in than India. It doesn't sound like this is true any more. Or was he deceived at the time, the 50s or 60s? > > Yours, > > Allen > > > Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android > On Tue, Oct 18, 2016 at 12:55 AM, patrick mccartney > wrote: > The term 'eve teasing' apparently was first used in the 1960s. Although I have never been able to find out by whom it was coined. The answer is in part found here : "Eve teasing" is used in India to refer to a wide variety of behaviour including molestation, "flashing" or any verbal/physical sexual street harassment that falls short of rape. > > But this from wikipedia sums it up: According to them, considering the semantic roots of the term in Indian English , Eve teasing refers to the temptress nature of Eve, placing responsibility on the woman as a tease.[10] > > More importantly, it represents the 'woman as ?temptress? who was complicit in her own downfall... [and] is actually a denial that it is sexual violence '. > > Also, the term is not found in the Indian Penal Code. > > I don't know, but perhaps it has something to do with the perception that 'rape' etc occurs in 'India' and not 'Bh?rat' as RSS ideologue Mohan Bhagwat is fond of saying. And that it is because it is perceived as a cultural import from Abrahamic religions that have 'dominated' and 'enslaved' the region for several centuries. Ultimately, this anti-social behaviour is perceived as a result of 'Western values' and not a local practice. It is considered a colonial byproduct. This helps create a moral panic to stimulate an anti-western agenda. A return to 'core/true' Indian values is considered the answer to this problem. At least in the eyes of the Sangh Parivar. > > Perhaps this is a result of the final stage of Srinivas' Sanskritization theory, i.e. Westernization? Bhagwat further qualified his essentialised remark stating that the 'pure village' is devoid of assaults but the sullied (i.e. Westernised) urban centres are where assaults occur. > > > > > > All the best, > > Patrick McCartney, PhD > Fellow > School of Culture, History & Language > College of the Asia-Pacific > The Australian National University > Canberra, Australia, 0200 > > > Skype - psdmccartney > Phone + Whatsapp: +61 414 954 748 > Twitter - @psdmccartney > > > academia > Linkedin > > Edanz > > #yogabodyANU2016 symposium ? > > Ep1 - Imagining Sanskrit Land > > Ep 2 - Total-am > > Ep 3 - Jalam ? Chillum > > Ep 4 - It's Time to get Married > > A Day in our Ashram > > Stop animation short film of Shakuntala? > > Forced to Clean Human Waste > > One of my favourite song s > > The Philosophy of Cycling > > > > > > On Tue, Oct 18, 2016 at 3:32 PM, Walter Slaje > wrote: > I am sorry the diacritics I use for vedic accents and the h?cek (inverted circumflex) never show in my emails. This is beyond my control. My apologies for the inconvenience. > > > I was also reminded that the thread is ?sexual harrassment?, not ?rape? in the strict sense. This is correct. Might I, with your permission, then add the innocent question why public sexual harrassment in India is widely known as ?Eve teasing?? > > The vast majority of victims are Indian girls. So, why an English ? but not an Indian ? forename to designate a crime committed by male Indian youth gangs against Indian women? > > I have never quite understood the background of this bizarre denomination. I am afraid in this particular case attempts at linking it to the premodern past of India are bound to fail. Are there any explanations on offer? > > > Yours, cluelessly, > > WS > > > > 2016-10-17 22:25 GMT+02:00 Artur Karp >: > > Iva Fiser > > Let's please retain Prof. Ivo Fi?er's Czech family name. > > Artur K. > > 2016-10-17 22:17 GMT+02:00 farkhondeh iran via INDOLOGY >: > ______________________________ _________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.i nfo (messages to the list's managing committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) > > > ---------- Wiadomo?? przekazana dalej ---------- > From: farkhondeh iran > > To: Walter Slaje > > Cc: Nityanand Misra >, indology > > Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2016 22:16:11 +0200 > Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] Sexual Harassment > If I may again, I agree with Prof. Slaje on the danger of anachronism and the need to go back to the Sanskrit words. The word kany?-d??a?a does not occur in KSS XII, 2, 105 cd but the Sanskrit is crystal-clear: it is a case of abuse as the girl is not willing and as the vidy?dhara has undertaken to abduct her by force. > > > upetya t?m anicchant?m ha?h?d dhartum prav?ttav?n, KSS XII, 2, 105, cd > > I. Farkhondeh > >> Le 17 oct. 2016 ? 21:54, Walter Slaje > a ?crit : >> >> Before rashly jumping to a discussion of ?rape? by tacitly presupposing a 21st century Western understanding of its concept and performance also for ancient India, a clarification is required of the concept(s) of ?rape? prevailing in premodern Indian thought. What unambiguous words and matching notions have so far been recorded that would correspond to "rape" in accordance with modern Western standards? What normative boundaries of, e.g., ?legal? types of marriage such as r?k?asa and pi??ca ? clear cases of ?rape? in Western terms I suppose ? needed to be transgressed that facts of rape would have been considered as fulfilled in premodern India? Was kany?-d??a?a the same as ?rape? in our understanding, or simply the spoiling of a virgin so that she could no longer be married off and became a serious damage to her parents? >> >> In what way can the absolute power a husband would have exercised over his wife (or wives) be categorised in contexts of "rape"? >> >> Is there any connecting factor of the past that could be related to the extraordinarily high number of filed gang rape cases in present-day India as continuously reported by the Indian media? In this latter regard, a good starting point could perhaps be Gyula Wojtilla's "Women at Work and Their Enemies. A Reappraisal of the K?mas?tra V, 5, 5 ? 10" (I lack the bibliographic citation of his paper at the moment). >> >> >> >> In a more general sense, B?U (M) VI 4,7 could also be revealing, if just ati-?kram is not understood in line with ?a?kara?s unconvincing attempts at downplaying the matter, but in accordance with Iva Fiser's ?overcome her forcibly? (Indian Erotics of the Oldest Period, Praha 1966: 116, a book not without its merits). >> >> >> >> Regards, >> >> WS >> >> >> ----------------------------- >> Prof. Dr. Walter Slaje >> Hermann-L?ns-Str. 1 >> D-99425 Weimar >> Deutschland >> >> >> 2016-10-17 20:08 GMT+02:00 Nityanand Misra >: >> >> On 17 October 2016 at 22:48, Artur Karp > wrote: >> Dear All, >> >> Should I understand that there are no traces, no mentions of sexual harrasment in the entire - vast - corpus of ancient/medieval Indian literature? >> >> >> >> A search for rape as the Text Word in the Puranic Encylopedia under http://www.sanskrit-lexicon.un i-koeln.de/scans/PEScan/2014/w eb/webtc2/index.php shows up the following: >> >> Rape of Rambh? by R?va?a (VR, UK). >> Rape [sic] of Vedavat? by R?va?a (VR, UK). In the VR, it is harassment but not rape. Probably the rape is described in some other R. >> Rape of Madanama?jar? by R?va?a (source?) >> Rape of Ca?cal?k?? by R?va?a (KambaR) >> Rape of Ar?, daughter of ?ukra, by Da??a (VR UK) >> Rape of Ugrasena's wife by the Gandharva Dramila (SB, 10th Canto) >> Attempt to rape Vinayavat? by Ra?gam?l? (Kath?sarits?gara) >> Attempt to rape Pramati by Nala, friend of Sudeva (M?rka??eya Pur??a) >> >> >> ______________________________ _________________ >> INDOLOGY mailing list >> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info >> indology-owner at list.indology.i nfo (messages to the list's managing committee) >> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) >> >> ______________________________ _________________ >> INDOLOGY mailing list >> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info >> indology-owner at list.indology.i nfo (messages to the list's managing committee) >> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) > > > > > > ______________________________ _________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology. info (messages to the list's managing committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) > > > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rajam at earthlink.net Thu Oct 20 01:46:36 2016 From: rajam at earthlink.net (rajam) Date: Wed, 19 Oct 16 18:46:36 -0700 Subject: [INDOLOGY] protocol of Google Books ...? Message-ID: <7FFD2BC9-EEE1-414E-9BF7-94837D27BBC2@earthlink.net> I don?t understand the protocol of Google Books. Recently, I came to know that Google Books have PDF-ed my Ph.D. thesis and publicized it. I was shocked to know about it. 1. What happened to the copyright to the author, me in this case? 2. Authors may have plans to revise their graduate-level theses and improve on them before bringing them to the public. To grab such effort in the middle is like collapsing a quiche in the making or thwarting a fetus? growth. Absolutely unacceptable. Has something like this happened to anyone of our colleagues? Please let me know how to teach Google Books to follow scholarly norms. Thanks and regards, rajam -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From david_buchta at brown.edu Thu Oct 20 02:14:51 2016 From: david_buchta at brown.edu (Buchta, David) Date: Wed, 19 Oct 16 22:14:51 -0400 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Touching one's nose with the left index finger Message-ID: Dear colleagues, I hope someone might have insight (or better yet a textual reference) for a cultural convention. In Vi?van?tha Cakravartin's commentary (ca. late 17th century) on the Bh?gavata Pur??a 10.9.7 (utt?rya gop?...), where Ya?od? finds the curd-pot that K???a had broken, he adds a comment that she touched the tip of her nose with her left index finger (v?matarjjany? n?s?gra? sp???veti j?eyam). Can anyone identify the significance of this? Does it indicate exasperation? Surprise? Thanks, David -- David Buchta, PhD Lecturer in Sanskrit Department of Classics Brown University -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rolfheiner.koch at gmail.com Thu Oct 20 12:46:52 2016 From: rolfheiner.koch at gmail.com (Rolf Heinrich Koch) Date: Thu, 20 Oct 16 14:46:52 +0200 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Touching one's nose with the left index finger In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20583d67-f089-1862-b9b5-217c300cdf02@gmail.com> Dear David, Ya?od? is _*waging *_her left finger at K???a (she see PWB sv tarjan? 3. Zeigefinger (_*Drohefinger*_). best Heiner Am 20.10.2016 um 04:14 schrieb Buchta, David: > v?matarjjany? n?s?gra? sp???veti j?eyam -- www.rolfheinrichkoch.wordpress.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From m.gluckman at anu.edu.au Thu Oct 20 18:48:01 2016 From: m.gluckman at anu.edu.au (Martin Gluckman) Date: Fri, 21 Oct 16 00:18:01 +0530 Subject: =?utf-8?Q?[INDOLOGY]_P=C4=81=E1=B9=87ini=E2=80=99s_in_Auroville_with_Dr._Rama_Nath_Sharma?= Message-ID: Dearest Friends, A reminder for the workshop on P??ini?s A???dhy?y? to be conducted by Dr. Rama Nath Sharma (Professor Emeritus University of Hawaii) in Auroville, India. A detailed synopsis is attached along with the poster. Date: 12-16th November 2016 Venue: Tibetan Pavilion, Auroville Registration: http://www.dl.gt/panini2016 Synopsis: http://dl.gt/panini2016synopsis Info Booklet: http://dl.gt/panini2016info *Kindly note those wishing to attend who have yet to register please do so ASAP as the workshop is near to capacity.* Kindest Wishes, Martin -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: AWalk-inWorkshopontheA???dhy?y?ofP??ini.pdf Type: application/pdf Size: 132107 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: PaniniWorkshop-Poster.pdf Type: application/pdf Size: 307050 bytes Desc: not available URL: From wujastyk at gmail.com Thu Oct 20 19:33:33 2016 From: wujastyk at gmail.com (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Thu, 20 Oct 16 13:33:33 -0600 Subject: [INDOLOGY] protocol of Google Books ...? In-Reply-To: <7FFD2BC9-EEE1-414E-9BF7-94837D27BBC2@earthlink.net> Message-ID: ?Copyright is a sneaky creature. It's likely that you own the copyright of your thesis, but not certain. If you received a financial grant ?during the time you wrote it, then it might be "work for hire" and the grant body might own the copyright. Or the university might own the copyright. That's quite likely, in fact. Technically, universities own the copyright of all work written by any of their employees, including professors. Most universities ignore this fact; the more legally-aware one's have a copyright-waiver in their employment terms somewhere. Most universities also require students to deposit a copy of their theses with the university, physically or as a PDF; that too may involve a transfer of rights. So, it's possible that a university has the copyright to your thesis, in which case, they also have the right to give Google permission to copy it. I have written to ScribD in the past, asking them to take down dozens of my articles that had been reproduced there. The process was a bit time-consuming, but ScribD did comply eventually and the illegal copies diasappeared. I'm sure you can write to Google and ask them to take down your thesis. Best, -- Professor Dominik Wujastyk* Singhmar Chair in Classical Indian Society and Polity Department of History and Classics University of Alberta, Canada ?sas.ualberta.ca? On 19 October 2016 at 19:46, rajam wrote: > I don?t understand the protocol of Google Books. > > Recently, I came to know that Google Books have PDF-ed my Ph.D. thesis > and publicized it. > > I was shocked to know about it. > > 1. What happened to the copyright to the author, me in this case? > > 2. Authors may have plans to revise their graduate-level theses and > improve on them before bringing them to the public. To grab such effort in > the middle is like collapsing a quiche in the making or thwarting a fetus? > growth. Absolutely unacceptable. > > Has something like this happened to anyone of our colleagues? Please let > me know how to teach Google Books to follow scholarly norms. > > Thanks and regards, > rajam > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing > committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or > unsubscribe) > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rmahoney at fastmail.com Thu Oct 20 20:04:59 2016 From: rmahoney at fastmail.com (Richard Mahoney) Date: Fri, 21 Oct 16 09:04:59 +1300 Subject: [INDOLOGY] protocol of Google Books ...? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20161021090459.0000159e@fastmail.com> Dear Rajam, Sometimes the varsity research repository provides details on rights, e.g.: UC Digital Theses - Copyright Provisions http://library.canterbury.ac.nz/thesis/etheses_copyright.shtml Best, Richard On Thu, 20 Oct 2016 13:33:33 -0600 Dominik Wujastyk wrote: > ?Copyright is a sneaky creature. It's likely that you own the > copyright of your thesis, but not certain. If you received a > financial grant ?during the time you wrote it, then it might be "work > for hire" and the grant body might own the copyright. Or the > university might own the copyright. That's quite likely, in fact. > Technically, universities own the copyright of all work written by > any of their employees, including professors. Most universities > ignore this fact; the more legally-aware one's have a > copyright-waiver in their employment terms somewhere. Most > universities also require students to deposit a copy of their theses > with the university, physically or as a PDF; that too may involve a > transfer of rights. So, it's possible that a university has the > copyright to your thesis, in which case, they also have the right to > give Google permission to copy it. > > I have written to ScribD in the past, asking them to take down dozens > of my articles that had been reproduced there. The process was a bit > time-consuming, but ScribD did comply eventually and the illegal > copies diasappeared. > > I'm sure you can write to Google and ask them to take down your > thesis. > > Best, > > > -- > Professor Dominik Wujastyk* > Singhmar Chair in > Classical Indian Society and Polity Department of History and > Classics University of > Alberta, Canada > > > ?sas.ualberta.ca? > > > On 19 October 2016 at 19:46, rajam wrote: > > > I don?t understand the protocol of Google Books. > > > > Recently, I came to know that Google Books have PDF-ed my Ph.D. > > thesis and publicized it. > > > > I was shocked to know about it. > > > > 1. What happened to the copyright to the author, me in this case? > > > > 2. Authors may have plans to revise their graduate-level theses and > > improve on them before bringing them to the public. To grab such > > effort in the middle is like collapsing a quiche in the making or > > thwarting a fetus? growth. Absolutely unacceptable. > > > > Has something like this happened to anyone of our colleagues? > > Please let me know how to teach Google Books to follow scholarly > > norms. > > > > Thanks and regards, > > rajam > > > > _______________________________________________ > > INDOLOGY mailing list > > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing > > committee) > > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list > > options or unsubscribe) > > > -- Richard Mahoney | Indica et Buddhica Littledene Bay Road Oxford New Zealand +64-3-312-1699 r.mahoney at indica-et-buddhica.org -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: attachment.sig Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 473 bytes Desc: not available URL: From rajam at earthlink.net Fri Oct 21 00:50:10 2016 From: rajam at earthlink.net (rajam) Date: Thu, 20 Oct 16 17:50:10 -0700 Subject: [INDOLOGY] protocol of Google Books ...? In-Reply-To: <20161021090459.0000159e@fastmail.com> Message-ID: <8013EA81-8F83-4015-905B-A76250DAC20E@earthlink.net> Thank you George, Professor Dominik Wujastyk, Richard Mahoney for your response. It?s interesting that there?s no similar complaint from anyone else! Mine must be so special that the hawky-Google can?t take its eyes off me!!! I do have the copyright as you can see from the attached picture. The original thesis is kept at UofPenn and microfilm copies were available from UMI, Ann Arbor for a minimal fee. A couple of years ago some other establishment started distributing PDF versions, I believe. Now Google. I don?t understand how they can completely ignore the author in all this! I?m very tempted to go to Google head quarters which is close-by and have a talk with the big guys. So, ok, I?ll send a written letter first to UMI and start from there. Thanks and regards, rajam > On Oct 20, 2016, at 1:04 PM, Richard Mahoney wrote: > > Dear Rajam, > > Sometimes the varsity research repository provides details on rights, > e.g.: > > UC Digital Theses - Copyright Provisions > http://library.canterbury.ac.nz/thesis/etheses_copyright.shtml > > > Best, Richard > > > > On Thu, 20 Oct 2016 13:33:33 -0600 > Dominik Wujastyk wrote: > >> ?Copyright is a sneaky creature. It's likely that you own the >> copyright of your thesis, but not certain. If you received a >> financial grant ?during the time you wrote it, then it might be "work >> for hire" and the grant body might own the copyright. Or the >> university might own the copyright. That's quite likely, in fact. >> Technically, universities own the copyright of all work written by >> any of their employees, including professors. Most universities >> ignore this fact; the more legally-aware one's have a >> copyright-waiver in their employment terms somewhere. Most >> universities also require students to deposit a copy of their theses >> with the university, physically or as a PDF; that too may involve a >> transfer of rights. So, it's possible that a university has the >> copyright to your thesis, in which case, they also have the right to >> give Google permission to copy it. >> >> I have written to ScribD in the past, asking them to take down dozens >> of my articles that had been reproduced there. The process was a bit >> time-consuming, but ScribD did comply eventually and the illegal >> copies diasappeared. >> >> I'm sure you can write to Google and ask them to take down your >> thesis. >> >> Best, >> >> >> -- >> Professor Dominik Wujastyk* >> Singhmar Chair in >> Classical Indian Society and Polity Department of History and >> Classics University of >> Alberta, Canada >> >> >> ?sas.ualberta.ca? >> >> >> On 19 October 2016 at 19:46, rajam wrote: >> >>> I don?t understand the protocol of Google Books. >>> >>> Recently, I came to know that Google Books have PDF-ed my Ph.D. >>> thesis and publicized it. >>> >>> I was shocked to know about it. >>> >>> 1. What happened to the copyright to the author, me in this case? >>> >>> 2. Authors may have plans to revise their graduate-level theses and >>> improve on them before bringing them to the public. To grab such >>> effort in the middle is like collapsing a quiche in the making or >>> thwarting a fetus? growth. Absolutely unacceptable. >>> >>> Has something like this happened to anyone of our colleagues? >>> Please let me know how to teach Google Books to follow scholarly >>> norms. >>> >>> Thanks and regards, >>> rajam >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> INDOLOGY mailing list >>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info >>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing >>> committee) >>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list >>> options or unsubscribe) >>> >> > > > > -- > Richard Mahoney | Indica et Buddhica > > Littledene Bay Road Oxford New Zealand > +64-3-312-1699 r.mahoney at indica-et-buddhica.org > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: IMG_5586.jpeg Type: image/jpeg Size: 11498 bytes Desc: not available URL: From james.hartzell at gmail.com Fri Oct 21 13:29:46 2016 From: james.hartzell at gmail.com (James Hartzell) Date: Fri, 21 Oct 16 09:29:46 -0400 Subject: =?utf-8?Q?[INDOLOGY]_pdf_request_Dhanvantar=C4=ABnigha=E1=B9=87=E1=B9=ADu=E1=B8=A5?= Message-ID: Dear colleagues MIght someone be able to send me (or point me to) a pdf of the Dhanvantar?nigha??u? ? I don't find it in the usual places. Cheers James Hartzell, PhD(2x) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From james.hartzell at gmail.com Fri Oct 21 13:53:57 2016 From: james.hartzell at gmail.com (James Hartzell) Date: Fri, 21 Oct 16 09:53:57 -0400 Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_[INDOLOGY]_pdf_request_Dhanvantar=C4=ABnigha=E1=B9=87=E1=B9=ADu=E1=B8=A5?= In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Many thanks to Alessandro Battistini for the quick reply. On Fri, Oct 21, 2016 at 9:29 AM, James Hartzell wrote: > Dear colleagues > > MIght someone be able to send me (or point me to) a pdf of the > Dhanvantar?nigha??u? ? > > I don't find it in the usual places. > > Cheers > > James Hartzell, PhD(2x) > > -- James Hartzell, PhD(2x) Center for Mind/Brain Sciences (CIMeC) The University of Trento, Italy and Center for Buddhist Studies Columbia Universtiy, USA -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From wujastyk at gmail.com Sat Oct 22 01:56:02 2016 From: wujastyk at gmail.com (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Fri, 21 Oct 16 19:56:02 -0600 Subject: [INDOLOGY] protocol of Google Books ...? In-Reply-To: <8013EA81-8F83-4015-905B-A76250DAC20E@earthlink.net> Message-ID: Just because your thesis *says* you have copyright doesn't mean it really is. Since UMI was involved, it's very likely indeed that they got copyright from you at some point, legally. Probably UPenn had the right to give UMI copyright. In which case, Google would have had to negotiate with UMI, not you, for the right to scan your thesis. I still think Google would probably take down your thesis if you asked them. DW -- Professor Dominik Wujastyk* Singhmar Chair in Classical Indian Society and Polity Department of History and Classics University of Alberta, Canada ?sas.ualberta.ca? On 20 October 2016 at 18:50, rajam wrote: > Thank you George, Professor Dominik Wujastyk, Richard Mahoney for your > response. > > It?s interesting that there?s no similar complaint from anyone else! Mine > must be so special that the hawky-Google can?t take its eyes off me!!! > > I do have the copyright as you can see from the attached picture. > > > The original thesis is kept at UofPenn and microfilm copies were available > from UMI, Ann Arbor for a minimal fee. A couple of years ago some other > establishment started distributing PDF versions, I believe. Now Google. > > I don?t understand how they can completely ignore the author in all > this! I?m very tempted to go to Google head quarters which is close-by and > have a talk with the big guys. > > So, ok, I?ll send a written letter first to UMI and start from there. > > Thanks and regards, > rajam > > On Oct 20, 2016, at 1:04 PM, Richard Mahoney > wrote: > > Dear Rajam, > > Sometimes the varsity research repository provides details on rights, > e.g.: > > UC Digital Theses - Copyright Provisions > http://library.canterbury.ac.nz/thesis/etheses_copyright.shtml > > > Best, Richard > > > > On Thu, 20 Oct 2016 13:33:33 -0600 > Dominik Wujastyk wrote: > > ?Copyright is a sneaky creature. It's likely that you own the > copyright of your thesis, but not certain. If you received a > financial grant ?during the time you wrote it, then it might be "work > for hire" and the grant body might own the copyright. Or the > university might own the copyright. That's quite likely, in fact. > Technically, universities own the copyright of all work written by > any of their employees, including professors. Most universities > ignore this fact; the more legally-aware one's have a > copyright-waiver in their employment terms somewhere. Most > universities also require students to deposit a copy of their theses > with the university, physically or as a PDF; that too may involve a > transfer of rights. So, it's possible that a university has the > copyright to your thesis, in which case, they also have the right to > give Google permission to copy it. > > I have written to ScribD in the past, asking them to take down dozens > of my articles that had been reproduced there. The process was a bit > time-consuming, but ScribD did comply eventually and the illegal > copies diasappeared. > > I'm sure you can write to Google and ask them to take down your > thesis. > > Best, > > > -- > Professor Dominik Wujastyk* > Singhmar Chair in > Classical Indian Society and Polity Department of History and > Classics University of > Alberta, Canada > > > ?sas.ualberta.ca? > > > On 19 October 2016 at 19:46, rajam wrote: > > I don?t understand the protocol of Google Books. > > Recently, I came to know that Google Books have PDF-ed my Ph.D. > thesis and publicized it. > > I was shocked to know about it. > > 1. What happened to the copyright to the author, me in this case? > > 2. Authors may have plans to revise their graduate-level theses and > improve on them before bringing them to the public. To grab such > effort in the middle is like collapsing a quiche in the making or > thwarting a fetus? growth. Absolutely unacceptable. > > Has something like this happened to anyone of our colleagues? > Please let me know how to teach Google Books to follow scholarly > norms. > > Thanks and regards, > rajam > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing > committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list > options or unsubscribe) > > > > > > -- > Richard Mahoney | Indica et Buddhica > > Littledene Bay Road Oxford New Zealand > +64-3-312-1699 r.mahoney at indica-et-buddhica.org > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing > committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or > unsubscribe) > > > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing > committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or > unsubscribe) > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: IMG_5586.jpeg Type: image/jpeg Size: 11498 bytes Desc: not available URL: From alex.watson at ashoka.edu.in Sat Oct 22 13:14:19 2016 From: alex.watson at ashoka.edu.in (Alex Watson) Date: Sat, 22 Oct 16 18:44:19 +0530 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Sexual Harassment Message-ID: See also the Prelude to Act 2 of the ?gama?ambara (translated by Csaba DEZS? as 'Much Ado About Religion' in the Clay Sanskrit Library series), in which as a prank the Sn?taka's servant disguises himself as a Jain nun and is then sexually harassed by a Jain monk ... who gets a shock. -- Alex Watson Professor of Indian Philosophy Ashoka University *https://ashokauniversity.academia.edu/AlexWatson * -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From danbalogh at gmail.com Sat Oct 22 18:59:08 2016 From: danbalogh at gmail.com (=?utf-8?Q?Balogh_D=C3=A1niel?=) Date: Sat, 22 Oct 16 20:59:08 +0200 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Aulikara inscription from Bhanpura In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Dear All, I have stumbled upon a reference to an Aulikara inscription from Bhanpura. This is mentioned in passing R. K. Sharma & O. P. Mishra 2003, Archaeological Excavations in Central India, page 7. (https://books.google.hu/books?hl=hu&id=o0ISjDDWJwQC&q=bhanpura#v=snippet&q=bhanpura&f=false). I believe the Bhanpura in question must be the town at 24?30'47.5"N 75?44'49.4"E but I have not managed to turn up any information about a supposed Aulikara inscription from this place. If anyone has any information about one, please share. Thank you, Daniel From alanus1216 at yahoo.com Sat Oct 22 20:59:46 2016 From: alanus1216 at yahoo.com (Allen Thrasher) Date: Sat, 22 Oct 16 20:59:46 +0000 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Sexual Harassment In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <1026102986.381456.1477169986184@mail.yahoo.com> I am at the Madison South Asia conference, and it may be of interest that yesterday morning there was a "Roundtable on Sexual Harassment in the Field of South Asian Studies: a community discussion." ?I was in a library meeting at the time and did not attend it, not have I heard or overheard any discussion of what was said. ?The printed program says that abstracts of all papers will be posted on the web once the conference is over. ?Since the title seems to imply an unstructured discussion rather than papers I suspect nothing from the roundtable will be posted, but some might want to check. ?If the title is not clear enough, I should specify that the panel is about harassment among South Asianists, not about harassment in South Asia. Allen -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From nmisra at gmail.com Sun Oct 23 02:26:22 2016 From: nmisra at gmail.com (Nityanand Misra) Date: Sun, 23 Oct 16 07:56:22 +0530 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Touching one's nose with the left index finger In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On 20 October 2016 at 07:44, Buchta, David wrote: > Dear colleagues, > > I hope someone might have insight (or better yet a textual reference) for > a cultural convention. > In Vi?van?tha Cakravartin's commentary (ca. late 17th century) on the > Bh?gavata Pur??a 10.9.7 (utt?rya gop?...), where Ya?od? finds the curd-pot > that K???a had broken, he adds a comment that she touched the tip of her > nose with her left index finger (v?matarjjany? n?s?gra? sp???veti j?eyam). > Can anyone identify the significance of this? Does it indicate > exasperation? Surprise? > > Not a definitive answer, but some pointers which may help. Compare the use of *n?s?gr?rpitatarjjan?* in the following verse from Prabodh?nanda Sarasvat??s *V?nd?vanamahim?m?tam* (15.33) *mithy?v?din? ki? mudh? pralapasi pratyak?ametatkatha? sakhya? pa?yata ki? tad?ha yadiya? ki?v??haha s? p?cchyat?m* *eva? satyamida? katha? prakupit?syeva? sakh?n?? gir? n?s?gr?rpitatarjjan? kamahasadr?dh? ?ira?kampin?* There is an idiom in Hindi: ??? ?? ????? ???? (n?ka para um?gal? rakhan?). I do not have my Hindi Muhavara Kosh with me now, but I have heard the idiom being used in Hindi to convey a feminine gesture of embarrassment, bashfulness, or no longer being able to remain angry [at somebody or something] upon realizing something. Wiktionary lists the meaning of this idiom from an unnamed dictionary under https://hi.wiktionary.org/wiki/??? as ??? ?? ????? ???? ??? ???? = ????? ?? ??? ??? ???? While the Chambers English Hindi Dictionary gives ??? ?? ????? ???? as the idiomatic translation of *make a long nose* [?] https://books.google.co.in/books?id=L-tVgTbV980C&pg=PA750 PS: The comment by Vi?van?tha Cakravartin is also to be found in Va???dhara *Bh?v?rthad?pik?prak??a*: *vilokya v?matarjjany? n?s?gra? sp???veti bh?va?* -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rajam at earthlink.net Sun Oct 23 03:18:23 2016 From: rajam at earthlink.net (rajam) Date: Sat, 22 Oct 16 20:18:23 -0700 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Touching one's nose with the left index finger In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <1F157D49-6AD9-46B3-8F39-80CEF29820FC@earthlink.net> Not sure if it would help, but there?s a reference in Old Tamil literature to women?s gossip around town about a woman?s relationship with a man. The reference is ?m?kkin ucci cu??u viral c?rtti (???????? ????? ??????????? ????????). Women talk about the relationship between an unmarried woman and a man, and their gesture is indicated by ?touching the tip of their nose with their index finger.? Recently, when I was watching a music event on YouTube where Prince Rama Varma was teaching a group of students he touched the tip of his nose with his index finger, perhaps to express ?shame shame? or something like that. I?d have to search for that video again. So I guess it was a practice in the south. Regards, rajam > On Oct 22, 2016, at 7:26 PM, Nityanand Misra wrote: > > > > On 20 October 2016 at 07:44, Buchta, David > wrote: > Dear colleagues, > > I hope someone might have insight (or better yet a textual reference) for a cultural convention. > In Vi?van?tha Cakravartin's commentary (ca. late 17th century) on the Bh?gavata Pur??a 10.9.7 (utt?rya gop?...), where Ya?od? finds the curd-pot that K???a had broken, he adds a comment that she touched the tip of her nose with her left index finger (v?matarjjany? n?s?gra? sp???veti j?eyam). > Can anyone identify the significance of this? Does it indicate exasperation? Surprise? > > > Not a definitive answer, but some pointers which may help. > > Compare the use of n?s?gr?rpitatarjjan? in the following verse from Prabodh?nanda Sarasvat??s V?nd?vanamahim?m?tam (15.33) > > mithy?v?din? ki? mudh? pralapasi pratyak?ametatkatha? sakhya? pa?yata ki? tad?ha yadiya? ki?v??haha s? p?cchyat?m > eva? satyamida? katha? prakupit?syeva? sakh?n?? gir? n?s?gr?rpitatarjjan? kamahasadr?dh? ?ira?kampin? > > There is an idiom in Hindi: ??? ?? ????? ???? (n?ka para um?gal? rakhan?). I do not have my Hindi Muhavara Kosh with me now, but I have heard the idiom being used in Hindi to convey a feminine gesture of embarrassment, bashfulness, or no longer being able to remain angry [at somebody or something] upon realizing something. > > Wiktionary lists the meaning of this idiom from an unnamed dictionary under https://hi.wiktionary.org/wiki/??? as > ??? ?? ????? ???? ??? ???? = ????? ?? ??? ??? ???? > > While the Chambers English Hindi Dictionary gives ??? ?? ????? ???? as the idiomatic translation of make a long nose [?] > https://books.google.co.in/books?id=L-tVgTbV980C&pg=PA750 > > > PS: The comment by Vi?van?tha Cakravartin is also to be found in Va???dhara Bh?v?rthad?pik?prak??a: vilokya v?matarjjany? n?s?gra? sp???veti bh?va? > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From nagarajpaturi at gmail.com Sun Oct 23 07:14:01 2016 From: nagarajpaturi at gmail.com (Nagaraj Paturi) Date: Sun, 23 Oct 16 12:44:01 +0530 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Touching one's nose with the left index finger In-Reply-To: <1F157D49-6AD9-46B3-8F39-80CEF29820FC@earthlink.net> Message-ID: Finger on nose is almost a universal gesture. Whenever 'finger on nose is mentioned while describing gestures, in most of the cases, it is the index finger which is kept in mind. That gesture could have variegated semiotics in each of the cultures where it is used. What the thread initiator said he was looking for was the specific cultural connotation in the context that he cited, Vi?van?tha Cakravartin's commentary (ca. late 17th century) on the Bh?gavata Pur??a 10.9.7 (utt?rya gop?...). There are two bases of context here, the verses before and after 10.9.7. BhP_10.09.006/1 sa?j?ta-kopa? sphurit?ru??dhara? sanda?ya dadbhir dadhi-mantha-bh?janam BhP_10.09.006/3 bhittv? m????rur d??ad-a?man? raho jagh?sa haiya?gavam antara? gata? BhP_10.09.007/1 utt?rya gop? su??ta? paya? puna? pravi?ya sa?d??ya ca dadhy-amatrakam BhP_10.09.007/3 bhagna? vilokya sva-sutasya karma taj jah?sa ta? c?pi na tatra pa?yat? Second, the cultural background of the user of the expression Vi?van?tha Cakravartin and his period:ca. late 17th century. Why I say period is the following: Among the Telugu speakers, apart from the universal meaning of "silence!" there is the meaning of intense surprise/amazement found in expressions such as mukkuna v?l?sukunn?ru = they put (past) the finger on the nose, meaning they were all amazed at what happened or at what they saw/heard. But I observed another finger on nose gesture in my previous generation, in which the index finger moved from the tip of the nose vertically straight upwards upto the forehead while waving the head horizontally, showing the tongue out usually folded with its tip upwards or downwards, to communicate the meaning (usually expressed in words immediately after removing the tongue part of the gesture), " Oh! nno! is it not so wrong, so inappropriate?" This expression is no longer found used. It seems to get considered as oldish. So time ca. late 17th century and the region and cultural group of Vi?van?tha Cakravartin . On Sun, Oct 23, 2016 at 8:48 AM, rajam wrote: > Not sure if it would help, but there?s a reference in Old Tamil literature > to women?s gossip around town about a woman?s relationship with a man. The > reference is ?m?kkin ucci cu??u viral c?rtti (???????? ????? ??????????? > ????????). Women talk about the relationship between an unmarried woman and > a man, and their gesture is indicated by ?touching the tip of their nose > with their index finger.? > > Recently, when I was watching a music event on YouTube where Prince Rama > Varma was teaching a group of students he touched the tip of his nose with > his index finger, perhaps to express ?shame shame? or something like that. > I?d have to search for that video again. > > So I guess it was a practice in the south. > > Regards, > rajam > > > On Oct 22, 2016, at 7:26 PM, Nityanand Misra wrote: > > > > On 20 October 2016 at 07:44, Buchta, David wrote: > >> Dear colleagues, >> >> I hope someone might have insight (or better yet a textual reference) for >> a cultural convention. >> In Vi?van?tha Cakravartin's commentary (ca. late 17th century) on the >> Bh?gavata Pur??a 10.9.7 (utt?rya gop?...), where Ya?od? finds the curd-pot >> that K???a had broken, he adds a comment that she touched the tip of her >> nose with her left index finger (v?matarjjany? n?s?gra? sp???veti >> j?eyam). >> Can anyone identify the significance of this? Does it indicate >> exasperation? Surprise? >> >> > Not a definitive answer, but some pointers which may help. > > Compare the use of *n?s?gr?rpitatarjjan?* in the following verse from > Prabodh?nanda Sarasvat??s *V?nd?vanamahim?m?tam* (15.33) > > *mithy?v?din? ki? mudh? pralapasi pratyak?ametatkatha? sakhya? pa?yata ki? > tad?ha yadiya? ki?v??haha s? p?cchyat?m* > *eva? satyamida? katha? prakupit?syeva? sakh?n?? gir? n?s?gr?rpitatarjjan? > kamahasadr?dh? ?ira?kampin?* > > There is an idiom in Hindi: ??? ?? ????? ???? (n?ka para um?gal? rakhan?). > I do not have my Hindi Muhavara Kosh with me now, but I have heard the > idiom being used in Hindi to convey a feminine gesture of embarrassment, > bashfulness, or no longer being able to remain angry [at somebody or > something] upon realizing something. > > Wiktionary lists the meaning of this idiom from an unnamed dictionary > under https://hi.wiktionary.org/wiki/??? as > ??? ?? ????? ???? ??? ???? = ????? ?? ??? ??? ???? > > While the Chambers English Hindi Dictionary gives ??? ?? ????? ???? as the > idiomatic translation of *make a long nose* [?] > https://books.google.co.in/books?id=L-tVgTbV980C&pg=PA750 > > > PS: The comment by Vi?van?tha Cakravartin is also to be found in > Va???dhara *Bh?v?rthad?pik?prak??a*: *vilokya v?matarjjany? n?s?gra? > sp???veti bh?va?* > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing > committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or > unsubscribe) > > > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing > committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or > unsubscribe) > -- Nagaraj Paturi Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA. Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of Liberal Education, (Pune, Maharashtra, INDIA ) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From nagarajpaturi at gmail.com Sun Oct 23 07:37:47 2016 From: nagarajpaturi at gmail.com (Nagaraj Paturi) Date: Sun, 23 Oct 16 13:07:47 +0530 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Touching one's nose with the left index finger In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Completing the incomplete last sentence: So time ca. late 17th century and the region and cultural group of Vi?van?tha Cakravartin is important. On Sun, Oct 23, 2016 at 12:44 PM, Nagaraj Paturi wrote: > Finger on nose is almost a universal gesture. Whenever 'finger on nose is > mentioned while describing gestures, in most of the cases, it is the index > finger which is kept in mind. That gesture could have variegated semiotics > in each of the cultures where it is used. What the thread initiator said > he was looking for was the specific cultural connotation in the context > that he cited, Vi?van?tha Cakravartin's commentary (ca. late 17th century) > on the Bh?gavata Pur??a 10.9.7 (utt?rya gop?...). > > There are two bases of context here, the verses before and after 10.9.7. > BhP_10.09.006/1 sa?j?ta-kopa? sphurit?ru??dhara? sanda?ya dadbhir > dadhi-mantha-bh?janam > BhP_10.09.006/3 bhittv? m????rur d??ad-a?man? raho jagh?sa haiya?gavam > antara? gata? > BhP_10.09.007/1 utt?rya gop? su??ta? paya? puna? pravi?ya sa?d??ya ca > dadhy-amatrakam > BhP_10.09.007/3 bhagna? vilokya sva-sutasya karma taj jah?sa ta? c?pi na > tatra pa?yat? > > Second, the cultural background of the user of the expression Vi?van?tha > Cakravartin and his period:ca. late 17th century. > > Why I say period is the following: > > > Among the Telugu speakers, apart from the universal meaning of > "silence!" there is the meaning of intense surprise/amazement found in > expressions such as mukkuna v?l?sukunn?ru = they put (past) the finger on > the nose, meaning they were all amazed at what happened or at what they > saw/heard. > > But I observed another finger on nose gesture in my previous generation, > in which the index finger moved from the tip of the nose vertically > straight upwards upto the forehead while waving the head horizontally, > showing the tongue out usually folded with its tip upwards or downwards, to > communicate the meaning (usually expressed in words immediately > after removing the tongue part of the gesture), " Oh! nno! is it not so > wrong, so inappropriate?" > > This expression is no longer found used. It seems to get considered as > oldish. > > So time ca. late 17th century and the region and cultural group of > Vi?van?tha Cakravartin . > > > > > > On Sun, Oct 23, 2016 at 8:48 AM, rajam wrote: > >> Not sure if it would help, but there?s a reference in Old Tamil >> literature to women?s gossip around town about a woman?s relationship with >> a man. The reference is ?m?kkin ucci cu??u viral c?rtti (???????? ????? >> ??????????? ????????). Women talk about the relationship between >> an unmarried woman and a man, and their gesture is indicated by ?touching >> the tip of their nose with their index finger.? >> >> Recently, when I was watching a music event on YouTube where Prince Rama >> Varma was teaching a group of students he touched the tip of his nose with >> his index finger, perhaps to express ?shame shame? or something like that. >> I?d have to search for that video again. >> >> So I guess it was a practice in the south. >> >> Regards, >> rajam >> >> >> On Oct 22, 2016, at 7:26 PM, Nityanand Misra wrote: >> >> >> >> On 20 October 2016 at 07:44, Buchta, David >> wrote: >> >>> Dear colleagues, >>> >>> I hope someone might have insight (or better yet a textual reference) >>> for a cultural convention. >>> In Vi?van?tha Cakravartin's commentary (ca. late 17th century) on the >>> Bh?gavata Pur??a 10.9.7 (utt?rya gop?...), where Ya?od? finds the curd-pot >>> that K???a had broken, he adds a comment that she touched the tip of her >>> nose with her left index finger (v?matarjjany? n?s?gra? sp???veti >>> j?eyam). >>> Can anyone identify the significance of this? Does it indicate >>> exasperation? Surprise? >>> >>> >> Not a definitive answer, but some pointers which may help. >> >> Compare the use of *n?s?gr?rpitatarjjan?* in the following verse from >> Prabodh?nanda Sarasvat??s *V?nd?vanamahim?m?tam* (15.33) >> >> *mithy?v?din? ki? mudh? pralapasi pratyak?ametatkatha? sakhya? pa?yata >> ki? tad?ha yadiya? ki?v??haha s? p?cchyat?m* >> *eva? satyamida? katha? prakupit?syeva? sakh?n?? gir? >> n?s?gr?rpitatarjjan? kamahasadr?dh? ?ira?kampin?* >> >> There is an idiom in Hindi: ??? ?? ????? ???? (n?ka para um?gal? >> rakhan?). I do not have my Hindi Muhavara Kosh with me now, but I have >> heard the idiom being used in Hindi to convey a feminine gesture of >> embarrassment, bashfulness, or no longer being able to remain angry [at >> somebody or something] upon realizing something. >> >> Wiktionary lists the meaning of this idiom from an unnamed dictionary >> under https://hi.wiktionary.org/wiki/??? as >> ??? ?? ????? ???? ??? ???? = ????? ?? ??? ??? ???? >> >> While the Chambers English Hindi Dictionary gives ??? ?? ????? ???? as >> the idiomatic translation of *make a long nose* [?] >> https://books.google.co.in/books?id=L-tVgTbV980C&pg=PA750 >> >> >> PS: The comment by Vi?van?tha Cakravartin is also to be found in >> Va???dhara *Bh?v?rthad?pik?prak??a*: *vilokya v?matarjjany? n?s?gra? >> sp???veti bh?va?* >> >> _______________________________________________ >> INDOLOGY mailing list >> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info >> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing >> committee) >> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or >> unsubscribe) >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> INDOLOGY mailing list >> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info >> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing >> committee) >> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or >> unsubscribe) >> > > > > -- > Nagaraj Paturi > > Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA. > > Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies > > FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of Liberal Education, > > (Pune, Maharashtra, INDIA ) > > > > -- Nagaraj Paturi Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA. Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of Liberal Education, (Pune, Maharashtra, INDIA ) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From vjroebuck at btinternet.com Sun Oct 23 09:06:21 2016 From: vjroebuck at btinternet.com (Valerie Roebuck) Date: Sun, 23 Oct 16 10:06:21 +0100 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Touching one's nose with the left index finger In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <577A0ABF-C70A-4095-AB11-BC54AAD37848@btinternet.com> British people tap the side of their nose with their right index finger to indicated that something is a secret ('Hush hush! Don?t pass it on!'). At least, they used to - I have not seen the younger generation do it. (But then they are not so secretive). Valerie J Roebuck Manchester, UK > On 23 Oct 2016, at 08:37, Nagaraj Paturi wrote: > > Completing the incomplete last sentence: > > So time ca. late 17th century and the region and cultural group of Vi?van?tha Cakravartin is important. > > > > On Sun, Oct 23, 2016 at 12:44 PM, Nagaraj Paturi > wrote: > Finger on nose is almost a universal gesture. Whenever 'finger on nose is mentioned while describing gestures, in most of the cases, it is the index finger which is kept in mind. That gesture could have variegated semiotics in each of the cultures where it is used. What the thread initiator said he was looking for was the specific cultural connotation in the context that he cited, Vi?van?tha Cakravartin's commentary (ca. late 17th century) on the Bh?gavata Pur??a 10.9.7 (utt?rya gop?...). > > There are two bases of context here, the verses before and after 10.9.7. > BhP_10.09.006/1 sa?j?ta-kopa? sphurit?ru??dhara? sanda?ya dadbhir dadhi-mantha-bh?janam > BhP_10.09.006/3 bhittv? m????rur d??ad-a?man? raho jagh?sa haiya?gavam antara? gata? > BhP_10.09.007/1 utt?rya gop? su??ta? paya? puna? pravi?ya sa?d??ya ca dadhy-amatrakam > BhP_10.09.007/3 bhagna? vilokya sva-sutasya karma taj jah?sa ta? c?pi na tatra pa?yat? > > Second, the cultural background of the user of the expression Vi?van?tha Cakravartin and his period:ca. late 17th century. > > Why I say period is the following: > > > Among the Telugu speakers, apart from the universal meaning of "silence!" there is the meaning of intense surprise/amazement found in expressions such as mukkuna v?l?sukunn?ru = they put (past) the finger on the nose, meaning they were all amazed at what happened or at what they saw/heard. > > But I observed another finger on nose gesture in my previous generation, in which the index finger moved from the tip of the nose vertically straight upwards upto the forehead while waving the head horizontally, showing the tongue out usually folded with its tip upwards or downwards, to communicate the meaning (usually expressed in words immediately after removing the tongue part of the gesture), " Oh! nno! is it not so wrong, so inappropriate?" > > This expression is no longer found used. It seems to get considered as oldish. > > So time ca. late 17th century and the region and cultural group of Vi?van?tha Cakravartin . > > > > > > On Sun, Oct 23, 2016 at 8:48 AM, rajam > wrote: > Not sure if it would help, but there?s a reference in Old Tamil literature to women?s gossip around town about a woman?s relationship with a man. The reference is ?m?kkin ucci cu??u viral c?rtti (???????? ????? ??????????? ????????). Women talk about the relationship between an unmarried woman and a man, and their gesture is indicated by ?touching the tip of their nose with their index finger.? > > Recently, when I was watching a music event on YouTube where Prince Rama Varma was teaching a group of students he touched the tip of his nose with his index finger, perhaps to express ?shame shame? or something like that. I?d have to search for that video again. > > So I guess it was a practice in the south. > > Regards, > rajam > > >> On Oct 22, 2016, at 7:26 PM, Nityanand Misra > wrote: >> >> >> >> On 20 October 2016 at 07:44, Buchta, David > wrote: >> Dear colleagues, >> >> I hope someone might have insight (or better yet a textual reference) for a cultural convention. >> In Vi?van?tha Cakravartin's commentary (ca. late 17th century) on the Bh?gavata Pur??a 10.9.7 (utt?rya gop?...), where Ya?od? finds the curd-pot that K???a had broken, he adds a comment that she touched the tip of her nose with her left index finger (v?matarjjany? n?s?gra? sp???veti j?eyam). >> Can anyone identify the significance of this? Does it indicate exasperation? Surprise? >> >> >> Not a definitive answer, but some pointers which may help. >> >> Compare the use of n?s?gr?rpitatarjjan? in the following verse from Prabodh?nanda Sarasvat??s V?nd?vanamahim?m?tam (15.33) >> >> mithy?v?din? ki? mudh? pralapasi pratyak?ametatkatha? sakhya? pa?yata ki? tad?ha yadiya? ki?v??haha s? p?cchyat?m >> eva? satyamida? katha? prakupit?syeva? sakh?n?? gir? n?s?gr?rpitatarjjan? kamahasadr?dh? ?ira?kampin? >> >> There is an idiom in Hindi: ??? ?? ????? ???? (n?ka para um?gal? rakhan?). I do not have my Hindi Muhavara Kosh with me now, but I have heard the idiom being used in Hindi to convey a feminine gesture of embarrassment, bashfulness, or no longer being able to remain angry [at somebody or something] upon realizing something. >> >> Wiktionary lists the meaning of this idiom from an unnamed dictionary under https://hi.wiktionary.org/wiki/??? as >> ??? ?? ????? ???? ??? ???? = ????? ?? ??? ??? ???? >> >> While the Chambers English Hindi Dictionary gives ??? ?? ????? ???? as the idiomatic translation of make a long nose [?] >> https://books.google.co.in/books?id=L-tVgTbV980C&pg=PA750 >> >> >> PS: The comment by Vi?van?tha Cakravartin is also to be found in Va???dhara Bh?v?rthad?pik?prak??a: vilokya v?matarjjany? n?s?gra? sp???veti bh?va? >> >> _______________________________________________ >> INDOLOGY mailing list >> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info >> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) >> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) > > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) > > > > -- > Nagaraj Paturi > > Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA. > > Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies > > FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of Liberal Education, > > (Pune, Maharashtra, INDIA ) > > > > > > > -- > Nagaraj Paturi > > Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA. > > Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies > > FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of Liberal Education, > > (Pune, Maharashtra, INDIA ) > > > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From j.jurewicz at uw.edu.pl Sun Oct 23 10:41:58 2016 From: j.jurewicz at uw.edu.pl (Joanna Jurewicz) Date: Sun, 23 Oct 16 12:41:58 +0200 Subject: [INDOLOGY] New Book Message-ID: Dear All, I am happy to inform that my new book "Fire, Death and Philosophy. A History of Ancient Indian Thinking" has just appeared. You can find the book at http://www.24naukowa.pl Best, Joanna *Abstract:* This monograph is a continuation of the research presented in 'Fire and Cognition in the ?gveda' (2010). The sources which I analyze here are: the late hymns of the ?gveda, the ?philosophical? hymns of the Atharvaveda, cosmogonies of the ?atapatha Br?hma?a and selected parts of the oldest Upani?ads, composed before the Buddha (B?had?ra?yaka, Ch?ndogya, Aitareya, Taittir?ya and Kau??taki). The basic claims of the research are as follows. Firstly, the composers of these texts continue the metaphysical assumptions of the ?gveda, according to which fire is the metaphysical principle underlying reality. This continuity is expressed not only in the exegesis expressed in the texts, but also in the ritual practice which is presented in detail in the ?atapatha Br?hma?a. Secondly, the diachronic approach allows me to track how the thought changed, how new concepts and theories appear and develop. It also allows me to propose possible reasons for these changes. Thirdly, my approach allows me to reconstruct the belief in rebirth which is presented in these texts. As in my previous book, my tools are traditional philology and cognitive linguistics, because the features of these texts are similar to the ?gveda and their explicit form is difficult to comprehend, especially as far as the philosophical content is concerned. The early Indian texts open the way to the beginnings of human philosophical thinking and show that abstract and general thinking can be created in the oral tradition. --- dr hab. Joanna Jurewicz, prof. UW Katedra Azji Po?udniowej /Chair of South Asia Wydzia? Orientalistyczny / Faculty of Oriental Studies Uniwersytet Warszawski /University of Warsaw ul. Krakowskie Przedmie?cie 26/28 00-927 Warszawa https://uw.academia.edu/JoannaJurewicz -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: FireDeathandPhilosophy.AHistoryofAncientIndianThinking_cover.pdf Type: application/pdf Size: 2286032 bytes Desc: not available URL: From mkapstei at uchicago.edu Sun Oct 23 11:04:40 2016 From: mkapstei at uchicago.edu (Matthew Kapstein) Date: Sun, 23 Oct 16 11:04:40 +0000 Subject: [INDOLOGY] New Book In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <82C3E42590D939418C74DD76B97DDED047BCDF67@xm-mbx-06-prod> Dear Joanna, Thank you for this information and congratulations to you. Is there an English-language site through which the book may be ordered, for those of us whose Polish is not so good? thank you, Matthew Matthew Kapstein Directeur d'?tudes, Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes Numata Visiting Professor of Buddhist Studies, The University of Chicago ________________________________ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From j.jurewicz at uw.edu.pl Sun Oct 23 11:07:31 2016 From: j.jurewicz at uw.edu.pl (Joanna Jurewicz) Date: Sun, 23 Oct 16 13:07:31 +0200 Subject: [INDOLOGY] New Book In-Reply-To: Message-ID: One more thing: the website http://www.24naukowa.pl is in English. Joanna --- dr hab. Joanna Jurewicz, prof. UW Katedra Azji Po?udniowej /Chair of South Asia Wydzia? Orientalistyczny / Faculty of Oriental Studies Uniwersytet Warszawski /University of Warsaw ul. Krakowskie Przedmie?cie 26/28 00-927 Warszawa https://uw.academia.edu/JoannaJurewicz 2016-10-23 12:41 GMT+02:00 Joanna Jurewicz : > Dear All, > > I am happy to inform that my new book "Fire, Death and Philosophy. A > History of Ancient Indian Thinking" has just appeared. You can find the > book at http://www.24naukowa.pl > > > Best, > > Joanna > > *Abstract:* > > This monograph is a continuation of the research presented in 'Fire and > Cognition in the ?gveda' (2010). The sources which I analyze here are: the > late hymns of the ?gveda, the ?philosophical? hymns of the Atharvaveda, > cosmogonies of the ?atapatha Br?hma?a and selected parts of the oldest > Upani?ads, composed before the Buddha (B?had?ra?yaka, Ch?ndogya, > Aitareya, Taittir?ya and Kau??taki). The basic claims of the research are > as follows. Firstly, the composers of these texts continue the metaphysical > assumptions of the ?gveda, according to which fire is the metaphysical > principle underlying reality. This continuity is expressed not only in > the exegesis expressed in the texts, but also in the ritual practice which > is presented in detail in the ?atapatha Br?hma?a. Secondly, the diachronic > approach allows me to track how the thought changed, how new concepts and > theories appear and develop. It also allows me to propose possible reasons > for these changes. Thirdly, my approach allows me to reconstruct the belief > in rebirth which is presented in these texts. As in my previous book, my > tools are traditional philology and cognitive linguistics, because the > features of these texts are similar to the ?gveda and their explicit form > is difficult to comprehend, especially as far as the philosophical content > is concerned. The early Indian texts open the way to the beginnings of > human philosophical thinking and show that abstract and general thinking > can be created in the oral tradition. > > > --- > dr hab. Joanna Jurewicz, prof. UW > Katedra Azji Po?udniowej /Chair of South Asia > Wydzia? Orientalistyczny / Faculty of Oriental Studies > Uniwersytet Warszawski /University of Warsaw > ul. Krakowskie Przedmie?cie 26/28 > 00-927 Warszawa > https://uw.academia.edu/JoannaJurewicz > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mkapstei at uchicago.edu Sun Oct 23 11:09:49 2016 From: mkapstei at uchicago.edu (Matthew Kapstein) Date: Sun, 23 Oct 16 11:09:49 +0000 Subject: [INDOLOGY] New Book In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <82C3E42590D939418C74DD76B97DDED047BCDF8E@xm-mbx-06-prod> but it may load in Polish, in which case you have to scroll down to find the US/UK flag button to change to English Matthew Kapstein Directeur d'?tudes, Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes Numata Visiting Professor of Buddhist Studies, The University of Chicago ________________________________ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From hr at ivs.edu Sun Oct 23 13:02:11 2016 From: hr at ivs.edu (Howard Resnick) Date: Sun, 23 Oct 16 09:02:11 -0400 Subject: [INDOLOGY] New Book In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <8912437A-6B90-4C0C-B01A-1575A032DBAD@ivs.edu> This may be easier for some of us: https://www.amazon.com/s/ref=sr_nr_seeall_1?rh=k%3Afire%5Cc+death%5Cc+and+philosophy%2Ci%3Astripbooks&keywords=fire%2C+death%2C+and+philosophy&ie=UTF8&qid=1477227624 > On Oct 23, 2016, at 6:41 AM, Joanna Jurewicz > wrote: > > Dear All, > > I am happy to inform that my new book "Fire, Death and Philosophy. A History of Ancient Indian Thinking" has just appeared. You can find the book at http://www.24naukowa.pl > > Best, > > Joanna > > Abstract: > This monograph is a continuation of the research presented in 'Fire and Cognition in the ?gveda' (2010). The sources which I analyze here are: the late hymns of the ?gveda, the ?philosophical? hymns of the Atharvaveda, cosmogonies of the ?atapatha Br?hma?a and selected parts of the oldest Upani?ads, composed before the Buddha (B?had?ra?yaka, Ch?ndogya, Aitareya, Taittir?ya and Kau??taki). The basic claims of the research are as follows. Firstly, the composers of these texts continue the metaphysical assumptions of the ?gveda, according to which fire is the metaphysical principle underlying reality. This continuity is expressed not only in the exegesis expressed in the texts, but also in the ritual practice which is presented in detail in the ?atapatha Br?hma?a. Secondly, the diachronic approach allows me to track how the thought changed, how new concepts and theories appear and develop. It also allows me to propose possible reasons for these changes. Thirdly, my approach allows me to reconstruct the belief in rebirth which is presented in these texts. As in my previous book, my tools are traditional philology and cognitive linguistics, because the features of these texts are similar to the ?gveda and their explicit form is difficult to comprehend, especially as far as the philosophical content is concerned. The early Indian texts open the way to the beginnings of human philosophical thinking and show that abstract and general thinking can be created in the oral tradition. > > > > --- > > dr hab. Joanna Jurewicz, prof. UW > Katedra Azji Po?udniowej /Chair of South Asia > Wydzia? Orientalistyczny / Faculty of Oriental Studies > Uniwersytet Warszawski /University of Warsaw > ul. Krakowskie Przedmie?cie 26/28 > 00-927 Warszawa > https://uw.academia.edu/JoannaJurewicz > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From j.jurewicz at uw.edu.pl Sun Oct 23 13:07:08 2016 From: j.jurewicz at uw.edu.pl (Joanna Jurewicz) Date: Sun, 23 Oct 16 15:07:08 +0200 Subject: [INDOLOGY] New Book In-Reply-To: <8912437A-6B90-4C0C-B01A-1575A032DBAD@ivs.edu> Message-ID: Dear Howard, Thank you very much! best, Joanna --- dr hab. Joanna Jurewicz, prof. UW Katedra Azji Po?udniowej /Chair of South Asia Wydzia? Orientalistyczny / Faculty of Oriental Studies Uniwersytet Warszawski /University of Warsaw ul. Krakowskie Przedmie?cie 26/28 00-927 Warszawa https://uw.academia.edu/JoannaJurewicz 2016-10-23 15:02 GMT+02:00 Howard Resnick
: > This may be easier for some of us: > > https://www.amazon.com/s/ref=sr_nr_seeall_1?rh=k%3Afire% > 5Cc+death%5Cc+and+philosophy%2Ci%3Astripbooks&keywords= > fire%2C+death%2C+and+philosophy&ie=UTF8&qid=1477227624 > > > > On Oct 23, 2016, at 6:41 AM, Joanna Jurewicz wrote: > > Dear All, > > I am happy to inform that my new book "Fire, Death and Philosophy. A > History of Ancient Indian Thinking" has just appeared. You can find the > book at http://www.24naukowa.pl > > > Best, > > Joanna > > *Abstract:* > > This monograph is a continuation of the research presented in 'Fire and > Cognition in the ?gveda' (2010). The sources which I analyze here are: the > late hymns of the ?gveda, the ?philosophical? hymns of the Atharvaveda, > cosmogonies of the ?atapatha Br?hma?a and selected parts of the oldest > Upani?ads, composed before the Buddha (B?had?ra?yaka, Ch?ndogya, > Aitareya, Taittir?ya and Kau??taki). The basic claims of the research are > as follows. Firstly, the composers of these texts continue the metaphysical > assumptions of the ?gveda, according to which fire is the metaphysical > principle underlying reality. This continuity is expressed not only in > the exegesis expressed in the texts, but also in the ritual practice which > is presented in detail in the ?atapatha Br?hma?a. Secondly, the diachronic > approach allows me to track how the thought changed, how new concepts and > theories appear and develop. It also allows me to propose possible reasons > for these changes. Thirdly, my approach allows me to reconstruct the belief > in rebirth which is presented in these texts. As in my previous book, my > tools are traditional philology and cognitive linguistics, because the > features of these texts are similar to the ?gveda and their explicit form > is difficult to comprehend, especially as far as the philosophical content > is concerned. The early Indian texts open the way to the beginnings of > human philosophical thinking and show that abstract and general thinking > can be created in the oral tradition. > > > --- > dr hab. Joanna Jurewicz, prof. UW > Katedra Azji Po?udniowej /Chair of South Asia > Wydzia? Orientalistyczny / Faculty of Oriental Studies > Uniwersytet Warszawski /University of Warsaw > ul. Krakowskie Przedmie?cie 26/28 > 00-927 Warszawa > https://uw.academia.edu/JoannaJurewicz > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing > committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or > unsubscribe) > > > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing > committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or > unsubscribe) > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From hr at ivs.edu Sun Oct 23 13:11:26 2016 From: hr at ivs.edu (Howard Resnick) Date: Sun, 23 Oct 16 09:11:26 -0400 Subject: [INDOLOGY] New Book In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <765D630F-CF4E-4B09-AB4C-A69652FB1EC0@ivs.edu> Thank you for your important work. Best, Howard > On Oct 23, 2016, at 9:07 AM, Joanna Jurewicz wrote: > > Dear Howard, > > Thank you very much! > > best, > > Joanna > > > --- > dr hab. Joanna Jurewicz, prof. UW > Katedra Azji Po?udniowej /Chair of South Asia > Wydzia? Orientalistyczny / Faculty of Oriental Studies > Uniwersytet Warszawski /University of Warsaw > ul. Krakowskie Przedmie?cie 26/28 > 00-927 Warszawa > https://uw.academia.edu/JoannaJurewicz > > 2016-10-23 15:02 GMT+02:00 Howard Resnick
>: > This may be easier for some of us: > > https://www.amazon.com/s/ref=sr_nr_seeall_1?rh=k%3Afire%5Cc+death%5Cc+and+philosophy%2Ci%3Astripbooks&keywords=fire%2C+death%2C+and+philosophy&ie=UTF8&qid=1477227624 > > >> On Oct 23, 2016, at 6:41 AM, Joanna Jurewicz > wrote: >> >> Dear All, >> >> I am happy to inform that my new book "Fire, Death and Philosophy. A History of Ancient Indian Thinking" has just appeared. You can find the book at http://www.24naukowa.pl >> >> Best, >> >> Joanna >> >> Abstract: >> This monograph is a continuation of the research presented in 'Fire and Cognition in the ?gveda' (2010). The sources which I analyze here are: the late hymns of the ?gveda, the ?philosophical? hymns of the Atharvaveda, cosmogonies of the ?atapatha Br?hma?a and selected parts of the oldest Upani?ads, composed before the Buddha (B?had?ra?yaka, Ch?ndogya, Aitareya, Taittir?ya and Kau??taki). The basic claims of the research are as follows. Firstly, the composers of these texts continue the metaphysical assumptions of the ?gveda, according to which fire is the metaphysical principle underlying reality. This continuity is expressed not only in the exegesis expressed in the texts, but also in the ritual practice which is presented in detail in the ?atapatha Br?hma?a. Secondly, the diachronic approach allows me to track how the thought changed, how new concepts and theories appear and develop. It also allows me to propose possible reasons for these changes. Thirdly, my approach allows me to reconstruct the belief in rebirth which is presented in these texts. As in my previous book, my tools are traditional philology and cognitive linguistics, because the features of these texts are similar to the ?gveda and their explicit form is difficult to comprehend, especially as far as the philosophical content is concerned. The early Indian texts open the way to the beginnings of human philosophical thinking and show that abstract and general thinking can be created in the oral tradition. >> >> >> >> --- >> >> dr hab. Joanna Jurewicz, prof. UW >> Katedra Azji Po?udniowej /Chair of South Asia >> Wydzia? Orientalistyczny / Faculty of Oriental Studies >> Uniwersytet Warszawski /University of Warsaw >> ul. Krakowskie Przedmie?cie 26/28 >> 00-927 Warszawa >> https://uw.academia.edu/JoannaJurewicz >> _______________________________________________ >> INDOLOGY mailing list >> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info >> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) >> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) > > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From karp at uw.edu.pl Sun Oct 23 13:37:30 2016 From: karp at uw.edu.pl (Artur Karp) Date: Sun, 23 Oct 16 15:37:30 +0200 Subject: [INDOLOGY] New Book In-Reply-To: <8912437A-6B90-4C0C-B01A-1575A032DBAD@ivs.edu> Message-ID: > This may be easier for some of us: Sorry - but I do not understand why that should be easier. Is scrolling down to the national flag buttons really so difficult? Could the fact that http://www.24naukowa.pl is a Polish portal discourage potential readers of the book? Polish is an IE language, Western Slavic subgroup, over 50 million native speakers. Polish portals are present, strongly, in the internet universe. Learning one or two basic Polish phrases needed to move freely within a Polish portal shouldn't be a problem for the learned denizens of Indology. Wyrazy szacunku dla Joanny/Words of respect to Joanna Artur Karp 2016-10-23 15:02 GMT+02:00 Howard Resnick
: > This may be easier for some of us: > > https://www.amazon.com/s/ref=sr_nr_seeall_1?rh=k%3Afire% > 5Cc+death%5Cc+and+philosophy%2Ci%3Astripbooks&keywords= > fire%2C+death%2C+and+philosophy&ie=UTF8&qid=1477227624 > > > > On Oct 23, 2016, at 6:41 AM, Joanna Jurewicz wrote: > > Dear All, > > I am happy to inform that my new book "Fire, Death and Philosophy. A > History of Ancient Indian Thinking" has just appeared. You can find the > book at http://www.24naukowa.pl > > > Best, > > Joanna > > *Abstract:* > > This monograph is a continuation of the research presented in 'Fire and > Cognition in the ?gveda' (2010). The sources which I analyze here are: the > late hymns of the ?gveda, the ?philosophical? hymns of the Atharvaveda, > cosmogonies of the ?atapatha Br?hma?a and selected parts of the oldest > Upani?ads, composed before the Buddha (B?had?ra?yaka, Ch?ndogya, > Aitareya, Taittir?ya and Kau??taki). The basic claims of the research are > as follows. Firstly, the composers of these texts continue the metaphysical > assumptions of the ?gveda, according to which fire is the metaphysical > principle underlying reality. This continuity is expressed not only in > the exegesis expressed in the texts, but also in the ritual practice which > is presented in detail in the ?atapatha Br?hma?a. Secondly, the diachronic > approach allows me to track how the thought changed, how new concepts and > theories appear and develop. It also allows me to propose possible reasons > for these changes. Thirdly, my approach allows me to reconstruct the belief > in rebirth which is presented in these texts. As in my previous book, my > tools are traditional philology and cognitive linguistics, because the > features of these texts are similar to the ?gveda and their explicit form > is difficult to comprehend, especially as far as the philosophical content > is concerned. The early Indian texts open the way to the beginnings of > human philosophical thinking and show that abstract and general thinking > can be created in the oral tradition. > > > --- > dr hab. Joanna Jurewicz, prof. UW > Katedra Azji Po?udniowej /Chair of South Asia > Wydzia? Orientalistyczny / Faculty of Oriental Studies > Uniwersytet Warszawski /University of Warsaw > ul. Krakowskie Przedmie?cie 26/28 > 00-927 Warszawa > https://uw.academia.edu/JoannaJurewicz > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing > committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or > unsubscribe) > > > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing > committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or > unsubscribe) > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From slaje at kabelmail.de Sun Oct 23 18:37:05 2016 From: slaje at kabelmail.de (Walter Slaje) Date: Sun, 23 Oct 16 20:37:05 +0200 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Sexual Harassment In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > the panel is about harassment among South Asianists, not about harassment in South Asia thank you for pointing that out, Allen! An unfortunate deficiency in modern Indological research indeed, given the constant actuality of a problem with an incredibly large number of South Asian women victims in its wake, who suffer serious permanent injuries. Empathy from abroad appears to be kept within strict limits. This fact, together with the telling silence of (mostly Western) intellectuals in light of the obvious suggests itself as a starting point for another, promising object of research. Best wishes, Walter 2016-10-22 23:00 GMT+02:00 Allen Thrasher via INDOLOGY < indology at list.indology.info>: > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing > committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or > unsubscribe) > > ---------- Weitergeleitete Nachricht ---------- > From: Allen Thrasher > To: Indology List > Cc: > Date: Sat, 22 Oct 2016 20:59:46 +0000 (UTC) > Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] Sexual Harassment > I am at the Madison South Asia conference, and it may be of interest that > yesterday morning there was a "Roundtable on Sexual Harassment in the Field > of South Asian Studies: a community discussion." I was in a library > meeting at the time and did not attend it, not have I heard or overheard > any discussion of what was said. The printed program says that abstracts > of all papers will be posted on the web once the conference is over. Since > the title seems to imply an unstructured discussion rather than papers I > suspect nothing from the roundtable will be posted, but some might want to > check. If the title is not clear enough, I should specify that the panel > is about harassment among South Asianists, not about harassment in South > Asia. > > Allen > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From j.jurewicz at uw.edu.pl Tue Oct 25 20:00:40 2016 From: j.jurewicz at uw.edu.pl (Joanna Jurewicz) Date: Tue, 25 Oct 16 22:00:40 +0200 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Fire, Death and Philosophy. A History of Ancient Indian Thinking - website in English Message-ID: I am sorry for bothering you once again: here is the link to my book in English: http://www.24naukowa.pl/index.php?newlang=english Best, Joanna --- dr hab. Joanna Jurewicz, prof. UW Katedra Azji Po?udniowej /Chair of South Asia Wydzia? Orientalistyczny / Faculty of Oriental Studies Uniwersytet Warszawski /University of Warsaw ul. Krakowskie Przedmie?cie 26/28 00-927 Warszawa https://uw.academia.edu/JoannaJurewicz -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lauren.bausch at drbu.org Wed Oct 26 00:03:33 2016 From: lauren.bausch at drbu.org (Lauren Bausch) Date: Tue, 25 Oct 16 17:03:33 -0700 Subject: [INDOLOGY] New Book In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Dear Joanna, Thank you for sharing with us this extremely valuable contribution to Vedic Studies! Congratulations on the publication of your latest book, which continues the work of *Fire and Cognition in the ?gveda*. Reading *Fire, Death and Philosophy* has been both enjoyable and illumining. With all good wishes, Lauren Bausch Assistant Professor Dharma Realm Buddhist University On Sun, Oct 23, 2016 at 3:41 AM, Joanna Jurewicz wrote: > Dear All, > > I am happy to inform that my new book "Fire, Death and Philosophy. A > History of Ancient Indian Thinking" has just appeared. You can find the > book at http://www.24naukowa.pl > > > Best, > > Joanna > > *Abstract:* > > This monograph is a continuation of the research presented in 'Fire and > Cognition in the ?gveda' (2010). The sources which I analyze here are: the > late hymns of the ?gveda, the ?philosophical? hymns of the Atharvaveda, > cosmogonies of the ?atapatha Br?hma?a and selected parts of the oldest > Upani?ads, composed before the Buddha (B?had?ra?yaka, Ch?ndogya, > Aitareya, Taittir?ya and Kau??taki). The basic claims of the research are > as follows. Firstly, the composers of these texts continue the metaphysical > assumptions of the ?gveda, according to which fire is the metaphysical > principle underlying reality. This continuity is expressed not only in > the exegesis expressed in the texts, but also in the ritual practice which > is presented in detail in the ?atapatha Br?hma?a. Secondly, the diachronic > approach allows me to track how the thought changed, how new concepts and > theories appear and develop. It also allows me to propose possible reasons > for these changes. Thirdly, my approach allows me to reconstruct the belief > in rebirth which is presented in these texts. As in my previous book, my > tools are traditional philology and cognitive linguistics, because the > features of these texts are similar to the ?gveda and their explicit form > is difficult to comprehend, especially as far as the philosophical content > is concerned. The early Indian texts open the way to the beginnings of > human philosophical thinking and show that abstract and general thinking > can be created in the oral tradition. > > > --- > dr hab. Joanna Jurewicz, prof. UW > Katedra Azji Po?udniowej /Chair of South Asia > Wydzia? Orientalistyczny / Faculty of Oriental Studies > Uniwersytet Warszawski /University of Warsaw > ul. Krakowskie Przedmie?cie 26/28 > 00-927 Warszawa > https://uw.academia.edu/JoannaJurewicz > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing > committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or > unsubscribe) > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From psdmccartney at gmail.com Wed Oct 26 03:02:32 2016 From: psdmccartney at gmail.com (patrick mccartney) Date: Wed, 26 Oct 16 13:32:32 +1030 Subject: [INDOLOGY] sanskrit and the 2011 census Message-ID: Dear Friends, Has the 2011 Census results for the # of Sanskrit speakers been released? All I seem able to find is the 2001 results http://www.censusindia.gov.in/Census_Data_2001/Census_Data_Online/Language/Statement1.aspx I have emailed and tweeted to the Minister of Home Affairs a few times without result. There aren't that many 'speaker's so I wonder, why it is taking so long? All the best, Patrick McCartney, PhD Fellow School of Culture, History & Language College of the Asia-Pacific The Australian National University Canberra, Australia, 0200 Skype - psdmccartney Phone + Whatsapp: +61 414 954 748 Twitter - @psdmccartney academia - Linkedin Edanz #yogabodyANU2016 symposium Ep1 - Imagining Sanskrit Land Ep 2 - Total-am Ep 3 - Jalam ? Chillum Ep 4 - It's Time to get Married A Day in our Ashram Stop animation short film of Shakuntala Forced to Clean Human Waste One of my favourite song s The Philosophy of Cycling -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rrocher at sas.upenn.edu Wed Oct 26 13:52:25 2016 From: rrocher at sas.upenn.edu (Rosane Rocher) Date: Wed, 26 Oct 16 09:52:25 -0400 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Fwd: [SAST grad group] Job Posting for South Asian Studies Librarian In-Reply-To: Message-ID: -------- Forwarded Message -------- Subject: [SAST grad group] Job Posting for South Asian Studies Librarian Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2016 13:18:55 +0000 From: Beckerman, Zoe L To: sast-faculty at groups.sas.upenn.edu , sast-languagefaculty at groups.sas.upenn.edu , sast-alumni at groups.sas.upenn.edu , sast-gradgroup at groups.sas.upenn.edu Please see the job posting below and spread the word far and wide to any candidates you may know. Best, Zoe -- /Zoe Beckerman /// /Associate Director /// /South Asia Studies Department /// /255 S. 36th St. 820 Williams Hall /// /University of Pennsylvania /// /Philadelphia, PA 19104/// /215-898-7475 /// /zoeb at sas.upenn.edu/// PennLogoEmailHeader The following new job postings match the criteria you indicated at the University of Pennsylvania Human Resources website. Click the job title link to go to that job posting to review and apply for that position. Or use the reference number to search at our Careers Website at *https://jobs.hr.upenn.edu/postings/search* *SOUTH ASIAN STUDIES LIBRARIAN (LIBRARIAN C) * Reporting to the Coordinator, Area Studies Collections, the South Asia Studies Librarian selects and acquires scholarly resources from and about the region of South Asia, in a wide range of subjects in both South Asian and European languages. The incumbent supervises the technical processing of selected materials acquired from vendors in South Asia. The incumbent will also perform original cataloging of selected materials in conjunction with other library staff. They provide specialized reference services, instruction, and consultations with scholars and students from the Penn community and beyond, as well as maintaining a seminar room with its own reference collection and teaching facilities. The South Asia Studies Librarian will have knowledge of changing patterns of scholarship and publishing in relevant fields of study and will be committed to the international and interdisciplinary strengths of Penn?s academic programs. While continuing to focus on traditional formats, the South Asia Studies Librarian will actively promote new library services and is expected to seek out external funding opportunities and develop collaborative partnerships worldwide. In addition, the Penn Libraries have a number of unique manuscript resources, which the incumbent will steward, develop, and promote. Overall responsibilities: ? Overseeing a budget of about $150,000, develops and manages the South Asia collection from and about the geographic region, which includes Afghanistan, Bangladesh, Bhutan, India, Maldives, Nepal, Pakistan, Sikkim, and Sri Lanka, with some coverage of Tibet. Also acquires materials from and about the diasporic community of South Asians in the US, UK, and elsewhere in the world outside of South Asia proper. The primary languages covered include most notably Sanskrit (Vedic and Classical), Hindi, Urdu, Bengali, Tamil, and Telugu, as well as English, French and German to support research in South Asia Studies. ? Provides specialized reference, instruction, and academic liaison services primarily to faculty and graduate students with research interests in South Asia Studies. Works closely with the faculty and students, especially graduate students, from several other departments and schools where South Asia is included as a topic of study within more general coursework. ? Manages, coordinates, and participates in the process of acquisition and bibliographic control of all types of resources in the languages of the region, using an integrated library system and the OCLC bibliographic utility. Performs original and complex copy cataloging for resources in the vernacular and provides appropriate classification and subject analysis according to national and local standards often in conjunction with other library specialists. Serves as a resource person, both within the South Asia Unit and throughout the Libraries, on matters pertaining to the bibliographic control of resources from the region as well as the maintenance of the integrity of the online South Asia catalog data. ? Develops and maintains the South Asia Collection website, http://www.library.upenn.edu/collections/sasia/ ? Participates in the larger field of South Asia librarianship on the national and international level with a particular emphasis on fostering meaningful collaboration. ? Promotes effective relationships with colleagues, especially those in other Area Studies Units and other humanities bibliographers, their respective campus constituencies, and donors. Stewards endowments and participates in development activities related to the South Asia Collection and the Area Studies collections more broadly. ? Supervises and trains one full-time library specialist and two part-time technical services assistants. ? Contingent on training and experience, may have additional assignments in teaching courses related to South Asia Studies. Reference Number:50-24300 School/Center: University Library Job Grade: 027 Position Type: Full Time Position Length: Ongoing -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- An embedded and charset-unspecified text was scrubbed... Name: AttachedMessagePart.bat URL: From paoloe.rosati at gmail.com Wed Oct 26 14:54:01 2016 From: paoloe.rosati at gmail.com (Paolo Eugenio Rosati) Date: Wed, 26 Oct 16 16:54:01 +0200 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Chicago B style and Footnotes Message-ID: Dear indologists, I was reading the CMS 16th ed. about the Chicago B Style, but I was not able to find any reference to the use of footnotes in the author-date system (maybe there is not). I use footnotes for explanations that would weigh down the text---e.g. to explain local names as Manobhava (Kamadeva), or to place a long series of bibliographical comparisons. Could anyone indicate to me if there is a chapter or any online reference about the use of footnoteseither for Chicago B or for any other Author-Date system? Any other advice is very welcome. Best, Paolo -- Paolo E. Rosati Oriental Archaeologist PhD candidate in "Civilizations of Asia and Africa" South Asia Section Dep. Italian Institute of Oriental Studies/ISO 'Sapienza' University of Rome *https://uniroma1.academia.edu/PaoloRosati/ * paoloe.rosati at uniroma1.it paoloe.rosati at gmail.com Skype: paoloe.rosati Mobile: (+39) 338 73 83 472 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From adheesh1 at gmail.com Wed Oct 26 17:39:40 2016 From: adheesh1 at gmail.com (Adheesh Sathaye) Date: Wed, 26 Oct 16 10:39:40 -0700 Subject: [INDOLOGY] World Sanskrit Conference 2018: First Circular Message-ID: <6E78955C-099E-4E34-8236-3713F5F8A030@gmail.com> Dear Colleagues, We are delighted to release the First Circular for the 17th World Sanskrit Conference, to be held in Vancouver, BC, Canada, July 9-13, 2018. The Circular is attached as a PDF file to this email. This first release contains valuable information about conference format and sections, procedures for abstract submissions, important deadlines, and logistical considerations for making the journey to Vancouver. For further information, please contact the WSC 2018 Secretariat at wsc2018 at ubcsanskrit.ca, and be sure to consult the official conference website, wsc.ubcsanskrit.ca, for the most up-to-date information. With best wishes, Adheesh ? Dr. Adheesh Sathaye Dept. of Asian Studies University of British Columbia 408-1871 West Mall Vancouver BC CANADA V6T1Z2 adheesh at mail.ubc.ca +1.604.822.5188 http://www.ubcsanskrit.ca http://www.asianfolklore.ca -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: WSC2018-firstcircular.pdf Type: application/pdf Size: 1640195 bytes Desc: not available URL: From gthomgt at gmail.com Wed Oct 26 19:32:39 2016 From: gthomgt at gmail.com (George Thompson) Date: Wed, 26 Oct 16 15:32:39 -0400 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Frits Staal's last visit to the US Message-ID: Dear List, I am finishing up an introduction to the long-delayed memorial to Frits that I've been working on. I want to talk about what I think was Frits's last visit to the US. I know that he visited Harvard and Yale where we had symposia in his honor. He also was celebrated in New York and, of course, Berkeley. Can anyone who attended any of these events remind me of the dates? Thank you, George Thompson -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From swright at nalandauniv.edu.in Wed Oct 26 20:12:00 2016 From: swright at nalandauniv.edu.in (Samuel Wright) Date: Thu, 27 Oct 16 01:42:00 +0530 Subject: [INDOLOGY] PDF of 'Catalogue of Sanskrit manuscripts in the Sanskrit College Library, Benares' (Allahabad). Message-ID: Dear List, I'm looking for a scan of *:Catalogue of Sanskrit manuscripts in the Sanskrit College Library, Benares *(Allahabad) [ca. 1888]. I can't seem to find this online - might someone have a scan of this they could share with me? Many Thanks, Sam Rajgir, Bihar -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Greg.Bailey at latrobe.edu.au Wed Oct 26 21:54:17 2016 From: Greg.Bailey at latrobe.edu.au (Greg Bailey) Date: Wed, 26 Oct 16 21:54:17 +0000 Subject: [INDOLOGY] naagaraa Message-ID: Dear List, A colleague who is not a member of the list asked about the meaning of the word n?gar?? Any help would be appreciated. I assume it might come from nagara, but to may relate to a musical instrument. Thanks in advance, Greg Bailey "Is naagaraa a Sanskrit word? Is it used in any Sanskrit source? I cann't find it in either Monnier-Williams or Macdonnel. Curt Sachs reports it as a cognate for Urdu naqqaara (kettledrum) in his 1917 catalogue (in German) of musical instruments in Burma and Assam. I think he is mistaken." -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From McComas.Taylor at anu.edu.au Thu Oct 27 00:15:48 2016 From: McComas.Taylor at anu.edu.au (McComas Taylor) Date: Thu, 27 Oct 16 00:15:48 +0000 Subject: [INDOLOGY] A little boast Message-ID: Dear Colleagues May I be permitted a little boast? Our electronic textbook, The Joy of Sanskrit, was ANU Press's second most popular title in the third quarter of 2016 with a total of 3556 downloads. https://press.anu.edu.au/publications/joy-sanskrit Thanks for your understanding McComas ________________________________ McComas Taylor, SFHEA Associate Professor, Reader in Sanskrit College of Asia and the Pacific The Australian National University, Tel. + 61 2 6125 3179 Website: https://sites.google.com/site/mccomasanu/ Address: Baldessin Building 4.24, ANU, ACT 0200 [1471312813545_sdon_small.jpg] My beautiful new book: Seven Days of Nectar ________________________________ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: OutlookEmoji-1471312813545_sdon_small.jpg.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 2629 bytes Desc: not available URL: From nagarajpaturi at gmail.com Thu Oct 27 02:15:18 2016 From: nagarajpaturi at gmail.com (Nagaraj Paturi) Date: Thu, 27 Oct 16 07:45:18 +0530 Subject: [INDOLOGY] naagaraa In-Reply-To: Message-ID: It is used in some Indian languages like Telugu in the form of nagaaraa. It is a drum only. It is a big/huge D shaped drum with the curve part of the D shape downwards. The top part is the sounding part. Made to sound with the help of two very big sticks. Not a 'musical instrument' though. It was used on the terraces of fort entrances its sound indicating several different announcements: exits and entries of kings, victories of kings, beginnings of events in the fort etc. On Thu, Oct 27, 2016 at 3:24 AM, Greg Bailey wrote: > Dear List, > > A colleague who is not a member of the list asked about the meaning of the > word n?gar?? Any help would be appreciated. I assume it might come from > nagara, but to may relate to a musical instrument. > > Thanks in advance, > > Greg Bailey > > > "Is *naagaraa* a Sanskrit word? Is it used in any Sanskrit source? I > cann't find it in either Monnier-Williams or Macdonnel. > > Curt Sachs reports it as a cognate for Urdu* naqqaara* (kettledrum) in > his 1917 catalogue (in German) of musical instruments in Burma and Assam. I > think he is mistaken." > > > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing > committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or > unsubscribe) > -- Nagaraj Paturi Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA. Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of Liberal Education, (Pune, Maharashtra, INDIA ) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From glhart at berkeley.edu Thu Oct 27 02:31:48 2016 From: glhart at berkeley.edu (George Hart) Date: Wed, 26 Oct 16 19:31:48 -0700 Subject: [INDOLOGY] naagaraa In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <60A04794-0E28-4D2E-979D-12AA16B82A38@berkeley.edu> A usage of the instrument similar to that described by Nagaraj is found in Tamil. >From the Tamil Lexicon: ??????????? nakar?-ma??apam , n. < ???? +. Kettle-drum stations established by Tirumalai Naik along the road from ?r?villiputt?r to his palace at Madura for announcing the completion of the worship of the Goddess at ?r?villiputt?r, after which he would take his food; ????????????????? ???????? ???????? ?????? ??????????? ?????? ???? ???? ?????????? ???? ????????????? ??????????????? ???????? ????????? ?????? ????????????? ??? ??????? ??????????????? ???????????????? ??? ???????. The TL says Tamil nakar? (kettle drum) is an Arabic word (naqq?ra) borrowed through Urdu. George > On Oct 26, 2016, at 7:15 PM, Nagaraj Paturi wrote: > > It is used in some Indian languages like Telugu in the form of nagaaraa. > > It is a drum only. It is a big/huge D shaped drum with the curve part of the D shape downwards. The top part is the sounding part. Made to sound with the help of two very big sticks. > > Not a 'musical instrument' though. It was used on the terraces of fort entrances its sound indicating several different announcements: exits and entries of kings, victories of kings, beginnings of events in the fort etc. > > > > On Thu, Oct 27, 2016 at 3:24 AM, Greg Bailey > wrote: > Dear List, > > A colleague who is not a member of the list asked about the meaning of the word n?gar?? Any help would be appreciated. I assume it might come from nagara, but to may relate to a musical instrument. > > Thanks in advance, > > Greg Bailey > > > "Is naagaraa a Sanskrit word? Is it used in any Sanskrit source? I cann't find it in either Monnier-Williams or Macdonnel. > > Curt Sachs reports it as a cognate for Urdu naqqaara (kettledrum) in his 1917 catalogue (in German) of musical instruments in Burma and Assam. I think he is mistaken." > > > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) > > > > -- > Nagaraj Paturi > > Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA. > > Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies > > FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of Liberal Education, > > (Pune, Maharashtra, INDIA ) > > > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From nagarajpaturi at gmail.com Thu Oct 27 02:39:48 2016 From: nagarajpaturi at gmail.com (Nagaraj Paturi) Date: Thu, 27 Oct 16 08:09:48 +0530 Subject: [INDOLOGY] naagaraa In-Reply-To: <60A04794-0E28-4D2E-979D-12AA16B82A38@berkeley.edu> Message-ID: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Nagara,_a_percussion_instrument,_Rajasthan.jpg This page can be reached by searching for the search key word Dundubhi also. Deriving the word nagaaraa from the Urdu naqqaaraa sounds reasonable. Thanks George for the nagaaraa manTapam (manDapam) example. On Thu, Oct 27, 2016 at 8:01 AM, George Hart wrote: > A usage of the instrument similar to that described by Nagaraj is found in > Tamil. > > From the Tamil Lexicon: > > ??????????? nakar?-ma??apam > > , *n*. < *????* +. Kettle-drum stations established by Tirumalai Naik > along the road from ?r?villiputt?r to his palace at Madura for announcing > the completion of the worship of the Goddess at ?r?villiputt?r, after which > he would take his food; ????????????????? ???????? ???????? ?????? > ??????????? ?????? ???? ???? ?????????? ???? ????????????? ??????????????? > ???????? ????????? ?????? ????????????? ??? ??????? ??????????????? > ???????????????? ??? ???????. > > The TL says Tamil *nakar?* (kettle drum) is an Arabic word (naqq?ra) > borrowed through Urdu. George > > On Oct 26, 2016, at 7:15 PM, Nagaraj Paturi > wrote: > > It is used in some Indian languages like Telugu in the form of nagaaraa. > > It is a drum only. It is a big/huge D shaped drum with the curve part of > the D shape downwards. The top part is the sounding part. Made to sound > with the help of two very big sticks. > > Not a 'musical instrument' though. It was used on the terraces of fort > entrances its sound indicating several different announcements: exits and > entries of kings, victories of kings, beginnings of events in the fort etc. > > > > On Thu, Oct 27, 2016 at 3:24 AM, Greg Bailey > wrote: > >> Dear List, >> >> A colleague who is not a member of the list asked about the meaning of >> the word n?gar?? Any help would be appreciated. I assume it might come >> from nagara, but to may relate to a musical instrument. >> >> Thanks in advance, >> >> Greg Bailey >> >> >> "Is *naagaraa* a Sanskrit word? Is it used in any Sanskrit source? I >> cann't find it in either Monnier-Williams or Macdonnel. >> >> Curt Sachs reports it as a cognate for Urdu* naqqaara* (kettledrum) in >> his 1917 catalogue (in German) of musical instruments in Burma and Assam. I >> think he is mistaken." >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> INDOLOGY mailing list >> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info >> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing >> committee) >> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or >> unsubscribe) >> > > > > -- > Nagaraj Paturi > > Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA. > > Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies > > FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of Liberal Education, > > (Pune, Maharashtra, INDIA ) > > > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing > committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or > unsubscribe) > > > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing > committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or > unsubscribe) > -- Nagaraj Paturi Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA. Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of Liberal Education, (Pune, Maharashtra, INDIA ) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From nagarajpaturi at gmail.com Thu Oct 27 03:28:32 2016 From: nagarajpaturi at gmail.com (Nagaraj Paturi) Date: Thu, 27 Oct 16 08:58:32 +0530 Subject: [INDOLOGY] naagaraa In-Reply-To: Message-ID: An instrument similar to this is used as a musical instrument though. But that is called Naubat. Taashaa and Marfaa are the versions of Naubat that are popular in Hyderabad. On Thu, Oct 27, 2016 at 8:09 AM, Nagaraj Paturi wrote: > https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Nagara,_a_percussion_instrument,_ > Rajasthan.jpg > > This page can be reached by searching for the search key word Dundubhi > also. > > Deriving the word nagaaraa from the Urdu naqqaaraa sounds reasonable. > > Thanks George for the nagaaraa manTapam (manDapam) example. > > On Thu, Oct 27, 2016 at 8:01 AM, George Hart wrote: > >> A usage of the instrument similar to that described by Nagaraj is found >> in Tamil. >> >> From the Tamil Lexicon: >> >> ??????????? nakar?-ma??apam >> >> , *n*. < *????* +. Kettle-drum stations established by Tirumalai Naik >> along the road from ?r?villiputt?r to his palace at Madura for announcing >> the completion of the worship of the Goddess at ?r?villiputt?r, after which >> he would take his food; ????????????????? ???????? ???????? ?????? >> ??????????? ?????? ???? ???? ?????????? ???? ????????????? ??????????????? >> ???????? ????????? ?????? ????????????? ??? ??????? ??????????????? >> ???????????????? ??? ???????. >> >> The TL says Tamil *nakar?* (kettle drum) is an Arabic word (naqq?ra) >> borrowed through Urdu. George >> >> On Oct 26, 2016, at 7:15 PM, Nagaraj Paturi >> wrote: >> >> It is used in some Indian languages like Telugu in the form of nagaaraa. >> >> It is a drum only. It is a big/huge D shaped drum with the curve part of >> the D shape downwards. The top part is the sounding part. Made to sound >> with the help of two very big sticks. >> >> Not a 'musical instrument' though. It was used on the terraces of fort >> entrances its sound indicating several different announcements: exits and >> entries of kings, victories of kings, beginnings of events in the fort etc. >> >> >> >> On Thu, Oct 27, 2016 at 3:24 AM, Greg Bailey >> wrote: >> >>> Dear List, >>> >>> A colleague who is not a member of the list asked about the meaning of >>> the word n?gar?? Any help would be appreciated. I assume it might come >>> from nagara, but to may relate to a musical instrument. >>> >>> Thanks in advance, >>> >>> Greg Bailey >>> >>> >>> "Is *naagaraa* a Sanskrit word? Is it used in any Sanskrit source? I >>> cann't find it in either Monnier-Williams or Macdonnel. >>> >>> Curt Sachs reports it as a cognate for Urdu* naqqaara* (kettledrum) in >>> his 1917 catalogue (in German) of musical instruments in Burma and Assam. I >>> think he is mistaken." >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> INDOLOGY mailing list >>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info >>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing >>> committee) >>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options >>> or unsubscribe) >>> >> >> >> >> -- >> Nagaraj Paturi >> >> Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA. >> >> Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies >> >> FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of Liberal Education, >> >> (Pune, Maharashtra, INDIA ) >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> INDOLOGY mailing list >> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info >> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing >> committee) >> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or >> unsubscribe) >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> INDOLOGY mailing list >> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info >> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing >> committee) >> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or >> unsubscribe) >> > > > > -- > Nagaraj Paturi > > Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA. > > Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies > > FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of Liberal Education, > > (Pune, Maharashtra, INDIA ) > > > > -- Nagaraj Paturi Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA. Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of Liberal Education, (Pune, Maharashtra, INDIA ) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From nagarajpaturi at gmail.com Thu Oct 27 03:35:49 2016 From: nagarajpaturi at gmail.com (Nagaraj Paturi) Date: Thu, 27 Oct 16 09:05:49 +0530 Subject: [INDOLOGY] naagaraa In-Reply-To: Message-ID: The word nagara used as synonymous to naubat : http://www.thehindu.com/features/magazine/drumbeats-of-yore/article7089460.ece On Thu, Oct 27, 2016 at 8:58 AM, Nagaraj Paturi wrote: > An instrument similar to this is used as a musical instrument though. > > But that is called Naubat. > > Taashaa and Marfaa are the versions of Naubat that are popular in > Hyderabad. > > On Thu, Oct 27, 2016 at 8:09 AM, Nagaraj Paturi > wrote: > >> https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Nagara,_a_percussion >> _instrument,_Rajasthan.jpg >> >> This page can be reached by searching for the search key word Dundubhi >> also. >> >> Deriving the word nagaaraa from the Urdu naqqaaraa sounds reasonable. >> >> Thanks George for the nagaaraa manTapam (manDapam) example. >> >> On Thu, Oct 27, 2016 at 8:01 AM, George Hart wrote: >> >>> A usage of the instrument similar to that described by Nagaraj is found >>> in Tamil. >>> >>> From the Tamil Lexicon: >>> >>> ??????????? nakar?-ma??apam >>> >>> , *n*. < *????* +. Kettle-drum stations established by Tirumalai Naik >>> along the road from ?r?villiputt?r to his palace at Madura for announcing >>> the completion of the worship of the Goddess at ?r?villiputt?r, after which >>> he would take his food; ????????????????? ???????? ???????? ?????? >>> ??????????? ?????? ???? ???? ?????????? ???? ????????????? ??????????????? >>> ???????? ????????? ?????? ????????????? ??? ??????? ??????????????? >>> ???????????????? ??? ???????. >>> >>> The TL says Tamil *nakar?* (kettle drum) is an Arabic word (naqq?ra) >>> borrowed through Urdu. George >>> >>> On Oct 26, 2016, at 7:15 PM, Nagaraj Paturi >>> wrote: >>> >>> It is used in some Indian languages like Telugu in the form of nagaaraa. >>> >>> It is a drum only. It is a big/huge D shaped drum with the curve part of >>> the D shape downwards. The top part is the sounding part. Made to sound >>> with the help of two very big sticks. >>> >>> Not a 'musical instrument' though. It was used on the terraces of fort >>> entrances its sound indicating several different announcements: exits and >>> entries of kings, victories of kings, beginnings of events in the fort etc. >>> >>> >>> >>> On Thu, Oct 27, 2016 at 3:24 AM, Greg Bailey >> > wrote: >>> >>>> Dear List, >>>> >>>> A colleague who is not a member of the list asked about the meaning of >>>> the word n?gar?? Any help would be appreciated. I assume it might come >>>> from nagara, but to may relate to a musical instrument. >>>> >>>> Thanks in advance, >>>> >>>> Greg Bailey >>>> >>>> >>>> "Is *naagaraa* a Sanskrit word? Is it used in any Sanskrit source? I >>>> cann't find it in either Monnier-Williams or Macdonnel. >>>> >>>> Curt Sachs reports it as a cognate for Urdu* naqqaara* (kettledrum) in >>>> his 1917 catalogue (in German) of musical instruments in Burma and Assam. I >>>> think he is mistaken." >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> INDOLOGY mailing list >>>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info >>>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing >>>> committee) >>>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options >>>> or unsubscribe) >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Nagaraj Paturi >>> >>> Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA. >>> >>> Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies >>> >>> FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of Liberal Education, >>> >>> (Pune, Maharashtra, INDIA ) >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> INDOLOGY mailing list >>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info >>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing >>> committee) >>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options >>> or unsubscribe) >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> INDOLOGY mailing list >>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info >>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing >>> committee) >>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options >>> or unsubscribe) >>> >> >> >> >> -- >> Nagaraj Paturi >> >> Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA. >> >> Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies >> >> FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of Liberal Education, >> >> (Pune, Maharashtra, INDIA ) >> >> >> >> > > > > -- > Nagaraj Paturi > > Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA. > > Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies > > FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of Liberal Education, > > (Pune, Maharashtra, INDIA ) > > > > -- Nagaraj Paturi Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA. Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of Liberal Education, (Pune, Maharashtra, INDIA ) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From emstern at verizon.net Thu Oct 27 06:25:04 2016 From: emstern at verizon.net (Elliot Stern) Date: Thu, 27 Oct 16 02:25:04 -0400 Subject: [INDOLOGY] PDF of 'Catalogue of Sanskrit manuscripts in the Sanskrit College Library, Benares' (Allahabad). In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <80D83954-912D-4855-B1BE-CC048A73663C@verizon.net> I too would like a scan. Elliot M. Stern 552 South 48th Street Philadelphia, PA 19143-2029 United States of America telephone: 215-747-6204 mobile: 267-240-8418 emstern at verizon.net > On 26 Oct 2016, at 16:12, Samuel Wright wrote: > > Dear List, > > I'm looking for a scan of: > > Catalogue of Sanskrit manuscripts in the Sanskrit College Library, Benares (Allahabad) [ca. 1888]. > > I can't seem to find this online - might someone have a scan of this they could share with me? > > Many Thanks, > Sam > > Rajgir, Bihar > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From j.jurewicz at uw.edu.pl Thu Oct 27 08:32:35 2016 From: j.jurewicz at uw.edu.pl (Joanna Jurewicz) Date: Thu, 27 Oct 16 10:32:35 +0200 Subject: [INDOLOGY] A little boast In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Congratulations!!! Joanna --- dr hab. Joanna Jurewicz, prof. UW Katedra Azji Po?udniowej /Chair of South Asia Wydzia? Orientalistyczny / Faculty of Oriental Studies Uniwersytet Warszawski /University of Warsaw ul. Krakowskie Przedmie?cie 26/28 00-927 Warszawa https://uw.academia.edu/JoannaJurewicz 2016-10-27 2:15 GMT+02:00 McComas Taylor : > Dear Colleagues > > > May I be permitted a little boast? > > > Our electronic textbook, *The Joy of Sanskrit*, was ANU Press's second > most popular title in the third quarter of 2016 with a total of 3556 > downloads. > > > https://press.anu.edu.au/publications/joy-sanskrit > > > Thanks for your understanding > > > McComas > > > > ------------------------------ > McComas Taylor, SFHEA > Associate Professor, Reader in Sanskrit > College of Asia and the Pacific > The Australian National University, Tel. + 61 2 6125 3179 > Website: https://sites.google.com/site/mccomasanu/ > > Address: Baldessin Building 4.24, ANU, ACT 0200 > > > [image: 1471312813545_sdon_small.jpg] > My beautiful new book:* Seven Days of Nectar* > > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing > committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or > unsubscribe) > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: OutlookEmoji-1471312813545_sdon_small.jpg.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 2629 bytes Desc: not available URL: From alessandro.battistini at uniroma1.it Thu Oct 27 13:36:35 2016 From: alessandro.battistini at uniroma1.it (Alessandro Battistini) Date: Thu, 27 Oct 16 15:36:35 +0200 Subject: [INDOLOGY] pdf lucknow catalogue Message-ID: Dear Indologists, I am looking for a pdf of the "Catalogue of Oriental Manuscripts in the Lucknow University Library" by Kali Prasad, Lucknow, 1951, as mentioned in the New Catalogus Catalogorum. Is anyone able to help? Thank you! Alessandro Battistini Gonda fellow, IIAS Leiden -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cchl2 at cam.ac.uk Thu Oct 27 16:57:59 2016 From: cchl2 at cam.ac.uk (Charles Li) Date: Thu, 27 Oct 16 17:57:59 +0100 Subject: [INDOLOGY] pdf lucknow catalogue In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Dear Alessandro, Here is a scan of the Sanskrit section of the catalogue: https://archive.org/details/CatalogueOfOrientalManuscriptsInTheLucknowUniversityLibrary Good luck, Charles From wujastyk at gmail.com Fri Oct 28 12:24:10 2016 From: wujastyk at gmail.com (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Fri, 28 Oct 16 06:24:10 -0600 Subject: [INDOLOGY] pdf lucknow catalogue In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Thank you for locating this, Charles. I've updated catalogues.indology.info (Biswas 614). DW -- Professor Dominik Wujastyk* Singhmar Chair in Classical Indian Society and Polity Department of History and Classics University of Alberta, Canada ?sas.ualberta.ca? On 27 October 2016 at 10:57, Charles Li wrote: > Dear Alessandro, > > Here is a scan of the Sanskrit section of the catalogue: > https://archive.org/details/CatalogueOfOrientalManuscriptsIn > TheLucknowUniversityLibrary > > Good luck, > > Charles > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing > committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or > unsubscribe) > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From V.Sasson at marianopolis.edu Fri Oct 28 14:02:32 2016 From: V.Sasson at marianopolis.edu (Vanessa Sasson) Date: Fri, 28 Oct 16 14:02:32 +0000 Subject: [INDOLOGY] article request Message-ID: <73C8D05F0B9DFC4D84EA02AFC695DD08010D944111@Boisvert.marianopolis.com> Dear colleagues, Does anyone have a pdf copy of the following article: Csoma de Koros, Alexander. "Notices on the Life of Shakya Extracted from the Tibetan Authorities." The article is from 1839 and was originally published in the Journal of the Asiatic Society of Bengal (I believe) but a reprint was produced in the journal, Tibetan Studies, in 1986. I cannot seem to find either edition. Thank you, Vanessa R. Sasson Marianopolis College -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ph2046 at columbia.edu Fri Oct 28 14:14:14 2016 From: ph2046 at columbia.edu (Paul Hackett) Date: Fri, 28 Oct 16 10:14:14 -0400 Subject: [INDOLOGY] article request In-Reply-To: <73C8D05F0B9DFC4D84EA02AFC695DD08010D944111@Boisvert.marianopolis.com> Message-ID: <06240A18-65E5-4B14-B13E-D7110A9B6C89@columbia.edu> Dear Vanessa, I have a copy. I'll send it to you off-list. Best, Paul > On Oct 28, 2016, at 10:02 AM, Vanessa Sasson wrote: > > Dear colleagues, > > Does anyone have a pdf copy of the following article: > > Csoma de Koros, Alexander. ?Notices on the Life of Shakya Extracted from the Tibetan Authorities.? > > The article is from 1839 and was originally published in the Journal of the Asiatic Society of Bengal (I believe) but a reprint was produced in the journal, Tibetan Studies, in 1986. > > I cannot seem to find either edition. > > Thank you, > Vanessa R. Sasson > Marianopolis College > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From hspier.muktabodha at gmail.com Sat Oct 29 00:22:00 2016 From: hspier.muktabodha at gmail.com (Harry Spier) Date: Fri, 28 Oct 16 20:22:00 -0400 Subject: =?utf-8?Q?[INDOLOGY]_Translation_of_ya=E1=B9=A3=E1=B9=ADihastaya?= Message-ID: Dear list members: A g?yatr? mantra mantra to V?yu is: sarvapr???ya vidmahe ya??ihast?ya dh?mahi tan no v?yu? pracoday?t I've seen a translation of ya??ihast?ya as "holding the mace" but are statues or pictoral representations of V?yu, and if so with a mace? but Monier-Williams also has a meaning of ya??i as "sacrificing" which he says comes from a commentator on Panini 3-3-110 . By any chance could someone point out the commentator and point me to the passage MW refers to. Also based on that definition of ya??i does a translation of ya??ihast?ya as "to the one who sacrifices with his hands" make sense. refering to the wind fanning the flames of the sacrifice. Thanks, Harry Spier -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From hspier.muktabodha at gmail.com Sat Oct 29 13:55:34 2016 From: hspier.muktabodha at gmail.com (Harry Spier) Date: Sat, 29 Oct 16 09:55:34 -0400 Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_[INDOLOGY]_Translation_of_ya=E1=B9=A3=E1=B9=ADihastaya?= In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Thank you to Corinna Wessels-Mevissen and Nivedita Rout who replied off-list. Harry Spier On Fri, Oct 28, 2016 at 8:22 PM, Harry Spier wrote: > Dear list members: > > A g?yatr? mantra mantra to V?yu is: > > sarvapr???ya vidmahe > ya??ihast?ya dh?mahi > tan no v?yu? pracoday?t > > I've seen a translation of ya??ihast?ya as "holding the mace" but are > statues or pictoral representations of V?yu, and if so with a mace? > > but Monier-Williams also has a meaning of ya??i as "sacrificing" which he > says comes from a commentator on Panini 3-3-110 . > > By any chance could someone point out the commentator and point me to the > passage MW refers to. > > Also based on that definition of ya??i does a translation of ya??ihast?ya > as "to the one who sacrifices with his hands" make sense. refering to the > wind fanning the flames of the sacrifice. > > Thanks, > > Harry Spier > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mmdesh at umich.edu Sat Oct 29 15:39:30 2016 From: mmdesh at umich.edu (Madhav Deshpande) Date: Sat, 29 Oct 16 11:39:30 -0400 Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_[INDOLOGY]_Translation_of_ya=E1=B9=A3=E1=B9=ADihastaya?= In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hello Harry, What were their suggestions? Can you share them with us? Madhav On Sat, Oct 29, 2016 at 9:55 AM, Harry Spier wrote: > Thank you to Corinna Wessels-Mevissen and Nivedita Rout who replied > off-list. > > Harry Spier > > On Fri, Oct 28, 2016 at 8:22 PM, Harry Spier > wrote: > >> Dear list members: >> >> A g?yatr? mantra mantra to V?yu is: >> >> sarvapr???ya vidmahe >> ya??ihast?ya dh?mahi >> tan no v?yu? pracoday?t >> >> I've seen a translation of ya??ihast?ya as "holding the mace" but are >> statues or pictoral representations of V?yu, and if so with a mace? >> >> but Monier-Williams also has a meaning of ya??i as "sacrificing" which >> he says comes from a commentator on Panini 3-3-110 . >> >> By any chance could someone point out the commentator and point me to >> the passage MW refers to. >> >> Also based on that definition of ya??i does a translation of ya??ihast?ya >> as "to the one who sacrifices with his hands" make sense. refering to the >> wind fanning the flames of the sacrifice. >> >> Thanks, >> >> Harry Spier >> > > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing > committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or > unsubscribe) > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dimitrov at staff.uni-marburg.de Sat Oct 29 17:05:14 2016 From: dimitrov at staff.uni-marburg.de (Dragomir Dimitrov) Date: Sat, 29 Oct 16 19:05:14 +0200 Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_[INDOLOGY]_Translation_of_ya=E1=B9=A3=E1=B9=ADihastaya?= In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <5814D6CA.7381.AC4B449@dimitrov.staff.uni-marburg.de> Dear Harry, as several colleagues have already tried to make it clear in earlier posts on this list, it is not Monier-Williams, but Otto von B?htlingk who is to be credited for such dictionary entries as the one concerning ya??i which you are referring to. In his monumental "Sanskrit-W?rterbuch" (1855?1875; co-authored with Rudolph Roth) B?htlingk has written the following on ya??i: "f. nom. act. von 1. yaj P. 3,3,110, Sch. wohl fehlerhaft f?r i??i." (PW, vol. 6, p. 95a, s.v. ya??i 2). In his unsurpassed "Sanskrit-W?rterbuch in k?rzerer Fassung" (1879?1889) B?htlingk kept this entry revising and abridging somewhat his earlier explanation: "f. Nom. act. von 1. yaj. Richtig i??i." (pw, vol. 5, 134a, s.v. ya??i 2). In the first edition of Monier-Williams's dictionary (published in 1872) its compiler simply translated B?htlingk's explanation which he found in the newly published volume six of PW, skipping thereby one part of the information (in particular the details concerning P??ini's s?tra): "sacrificing, (perhaps incorrect for 3. ish?i.)" (MW, p. 804b, s.v. yash?i 1). In the second edition of Monier-Williams's dictionary (published in 1899) we read "sacrificing, P??. iii. 3, 110, Sch. (prob. w. r. for ish?i)" (mw, p. 840c, s.v. yash?i 1). From this explanation and from the history of the dictionary itself as reflected in its introduction it can be assumed that it was Carl Cappeller who added the note on P??. 3.3.110 after consulting the entry in PW which he knew certainly very well. In this sense Monier-Williams has said nothing about ya??i and probably had no idea which commentator on P??ini B?htlingk has been referring to. I suspect that B?htlingk had in mind a passage which he had published himself in his edition of P??ini?s A???dhy?y? (published in 1839; B?htlingk was 24 years old at that time!). At the end of the commentary on P??. 3.3.110 we read there: "... k?? ya??im ity?di" (P?nini's acht B?cher grammatischer Regeln. Vol. 1, p. 173). In the "Einleitung" added at the beginning of the second volume of this edition (published in 1840) B?htlingk has provided information about the Calcutta commentary on the A???dhy?y? on which his own edition was based. I don't have it at hand to check, but I suppose that the same text is to be read in this modern commentary began by Dharan?dhara and completed by K???n?tha at the suggestion of Colebrooke in 1809 (see vol. 2, pp. xxxvii?xxxviii of B?htlingk?s edition). All the best, Dragomir Dimitrov ________________________________________ Dr. habil. Dragomir Dimitrov Indologie und Tibetologie Philipps-Universit?t Marburg Deutschhausstr. 12 D-35032 Marburg Germany Tel.: +49 6421 28 24640, +49 178 9190340 E-mail: dimitrov at staff.uni-marburg.de http://www.uni-marburg.de/indologie ________________________________________ > Thank you to Corinna Wessels-Mevissen and Nivedita Rout who replied > off-list. > > Harry Spier > > On Fri, Oct 28, 2016 at 8:22 PM, Harry Spier > wrote: > Dear list members: > > A g?yatr? mantra mantra to V?yu is: > sarvapr???ya vidmahe > ya??ihast?ya dh?mahi > tan no v?yu?pracoday?t > I've seen a translation of ya??ihast?ya as "holding the mace" > but are statues or pictoral representations of V?yu, and if so > with a mace? but Monier-Williams also has a meaning of ya??i > as "sacrificing" which he says comes from a commentator on Panini > 3-3-110 . By any chance could someone point out the commentator > and point me to the passage MW refers to. Also based on that > definition of ya??i does a translation of ya??ihast?ya as > "to the one who sacrifices with his hands" make sense. refering to > the wind fanning the flames of the sacrifice. Thanks, Harry Spier > From hspier.muktabodha at gmail.com Sat Oct 29 18:05:56 2016 From: hspier.muktabodha at gmail.com (Harry Spier) Date: Sat, 29 Oct 16 14:05:56 -0400 Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_[INDOLOGY]_Translation_of_ya=E1=B9=A3=E1=B9=ADihastaya?= Message-ID: ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Corinna Wessels-Mevissen Date: Sat, Oct 29, 2016 at 12:31 AM Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] Translation of ya??ihastaya To: Harry Spier Hello Harry Spier, I did my PhD on the early iconography of the a??adikp?las (book is available on Academia: https://www.academia.edu/3029535/The_Gods_of_the_ Directions_in_Ancient_India_Origin_and_Early_Development_ in_Art_and_Literature_until_c._1000_A.D._), and V?yu is very often seen as holding a flagstaff. This is in fact his most prominent attribute. As far as I remember, *ya??i* was not mentioned in those texts, but only dhvaja or pat?k?, and the respective images show the god with a banner ? mostly with the flag portion being a long streamer. Hope this helps somehow. Corinna Wessels-Mevissen ------------------------------ *Von:* Harry Spier *An:* Indology *Gesendet:* 2:22 Samstag, 29.Oktober 2016 *Betreff:* [INDOLOGY] Translation of ya??ihastaya Dear list members: A g?yatr? mantra mantra to V?yu is: sarvapr???ya vidmahe ya??ihast?ya dh?mahi tan no v?yu? pracoday?t I've seen a translation of ya??ihast?ya as "holding the mace" but are statues or pictoral representations of V?yu, and if so with a mace? but Monier-Williams also has a meaning of ya??i as "sacrificing" which he says comes from a commentator on Panini 3-3-110 . By any chance could someone point out the commentator and point me to the passage MW refers to. Also based on that definition of ya??i does a translation of ya??ihast?ya as "to the one who sacrifices with his hands" make sense. refering to the wind fanning the flames of the sacrifice. Thanks, Harry Spier _______________________________________________ INDOLOGY mailing list INDOLOGY at list.indology.info indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mmdesh at umich.edu Sat Oct 29 19:36:40 2016 From: mmdesh at umich.edu (Madhav Deshpande) Date: Sat, 29 Oct 16 15:36:40 -0400 Subject: =?utf-8?Q?[INDOLOGY]_Fwd:__Translation_of_ya=E1=B9=A3=E1=B9=ADihastaya?= In-Reply-To: Message-ID: ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Madhav Deshpande Date: Sat, Oct 29, 2016 at 3:33 PM Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] Translation of ya??ihastaya To: Dragomir Dimitrov I am wondering if this Calcutta commentary on the A???dhy?y? by Dhara??dhara and Ka?in?tha is available in a digital form from some source? I don't think I have seen it even in a printed edition. Madhav Deshpande On Sat, Oct 29, 2016 at 1:05 PM, Dragomir Dimitrov < dimitrov at staff.uni-marburg.de> wrote: > Dear Harry, > > as several colleagues have already tried to make it clear in earlier posts > on > this list, it is not Monier-Williams, but Otto von B?htlingk who is to be > credited for such dictionary entries as the one concerning ya??i which you > are > referring to. > > In his monumental "Sanskrit-W?rterbuch" (1855?1875; co-authored with > Rudolph Roth) B?htlingk has written the following on ya??i: "f. nom. act. > von > 1. yaj P. 3,3,110, Sch. wohl fehlerhaft f?r i??i." (PW, vol. 6, p. 95a, > s.v. ya??i > 2). In his unsurpassed "Sanskrit-W?rterbuch in k?rzerer Fassung" > (1879?1889) B?htlingk kept this entry revising and abridging somewhat his > earlier explanation: "f. Nom. act. von 1. yaj. Richtig i??i." (pw, vol. 5, > 134a, > s.v. ya??i 2). In the first edition of Monier-Williams's dictionary > (published in > 1872) its compiler simply translated B?htlingk's explanation which he found > in the newly published volume six of PW, skipping thereby one part of the > information (in particular the details concerning P??ini's s?tra): > "sacrificing, > (perhaps incorrect for 3. ish?i.)" (MW, p. 804b, s.v. yash?i 1). In the > second > edition of Monier-Williams's dictionary (published in 1899) we read > "sacrificing, P??. iii. 3, 110, Sch. (prob. w. r. for ish?i)" (mw, p. > 840c, s.v. > yash?i 1). From this explanation and from the history of the dictionary > itself > as reflected in its introduction it can be assumed that it was Carl > Cappeller > who added the note on P??. 3.3.110 after consulting the entry in PW which > he knew certainly very well. In this sense Monier-Williams has said nothing > about ya??i and probably had no idea which commentator on P??ini B?htlingk > has been referring to. > > I suspect that B?htlingk had in mind a passage which he had published > himself in his edition of P??ini?s A???dhy?y? (published in 1839; > B?htlingk was > 24 years old at that time!). At the end of the commentary on P??. 3.3.110 > we read there: "... k?? ya??im ity?di" (P?nini's acht B?cher grammatischer > Regeln. Vol. 1, p. 173). In the "Einleitung" added at the beginning of the > second volume of this edition (published in 1840) B?htlingk has provided > information about the Calcutta commentary on the A???dhy?y? on which his > own edition was based. I don't have it at hand to check, but I suppose that > the same text is to be read in this modern commentary began by > Dharan?dhara and completed by K???n?tha at the suggestion of Colebrooke in > 1809 (see vol. 2, pp. xxxvii?xxxviii of B?htlingk?s edition). > > All the best, > Dragomir Dimitrov > > ________________________________________ > > Dr. habil. Dragomir Dimitrov > Indologie und Tibetologie > Philipps-Universit?t Marburg > Deutschhausstr. 12 > D-35032 Marburg > Germany > > Tel.: +49 6421 28 24640, +49 178 9190340 > E-mail: dimitrov at staff.uni-marburg.de > http://www.uni-marburg.de/indologie > ________________________________________ > > > > > Thank you to Corinna Wessels-Mevissen and Nivedita Rout who replied > > off-list. > > > > Harry Spier > > > > On Fri, Oct 28, 2016 at 8:22 PM, Harry Spier > > wrote: > > Dear list members: > > > > A g?yatr? mantra mantra to V?yu is: > > sarvapr???ya vidmahe > > ya??ihast?ya dh?mahi > > tan no v?yu?pracoday?t > > I've seen a translation of ya??ihast?ya as "holding the mace" > > but are statues or pictoral representations of V?yu, and if so > > with a mace? but Monier-Williams also has a meaning of ya??i > > as "sacrificing" which he says comes from a commentator on Panini > > 3-3-110 . By any chance could someone point out the commentator > > and point me to the passage MW refers to. Also based on that > > definition of ya??i does a translation of ya??ihast?ya as > > "to the one who sacrifices with his hands" make sense. refering to > > the wind fanning the flames of the sacrifice. Thanks, Harry Spier > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing > committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or > unsubscribe) > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mmdesh at umich.edu Sat Oct 29 19:53:25 2016 From: mmdesh at umich.edu (Madhav Deshpande) Date: Sat, 29 Oct 16 15:53:25 -0400 Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_[INDOLOGY]_Translation_of_ya=E1=B9=A3=E1=B9=ADihastaya?= In-Reply-To: <5814D6CA.7381.AC4B449@dimitrov.staff.uni-marburg.de> Message-ID: Just to let you know that I found two volumes of the commentary of Dhara??dhara and K???n?tha on P??ini's A???dhy?y? produced under order of Colebrooke on Hathi Trust under the title: Panini's grammar, with a commentary or Panini-sutra-vrtti. v.1-2 by P??ini. Published 1810 On Sat, Oct 29, 2016 at 1:05 PM, Dragomir Dimitrov < dimitrov at staff.uni-marburg.de> wrote: > Dear Harry, > > as several colleagues have already tried to make it clear in earlier posts > on > this list, it is not Monier-Williams, but Otto von B?htlingk who is to be > credited for such dictionary entries as the one concerning ya??i which you > are > referring to. > > In his monumental "Sanskrit-W?rterbuch" (1855?1875; co-authored with > Rudolph Roth) B?htlingk has written the following on ya??i: "f. nom. act. > von > 1. yaj P. 3,3,110, Sch. wohl fehlerhaft f?r i??i." (PW, vol. 6, p. 95a, > s.v. ya??i > 2). In his unsurpassed "Sanskrit-W?rterbuch in k?rzerer Fassung" > (1879?1889) B?htlingk kept this entry revising and abridging somewhat his > earlier explanation: "f. Nom. act. von 1. yaj. Richtig i??i." (pw, vol. 5, > 134a, > s.v. ya??i 2). In the first edition of Monier-Williams's dictionary > (published in > 1872) its compiler simply translated B?htlingk's explanation which he found > in the newly published volume six of PW, skipping thereby one part of the > information (in particular the details concerning P??ini's s?tra): > "sacrificing, > (perhaps incorrect for 3. ish?i.)" (MW, p. 804b, s.v. yash?i 1). In the > second > edition of Monier-Williams's dictionary (published in 1899) we read > "sacrificing, P??. iii. 3, 110, Sch. (prob. w. r. for ish?i)" (mw, p. > 840c, s.v. > yash?i 1). From this explanation and from the history of the dictionary > itself > as reflected in its introduction it can be assumed that it was Carl > Cappeller > who added the note on P??. 3.3.110 after consulting the entry in PW which > he knew certainly very well. In this sense Monier-Williams has said nothing > about ya??i and probably had no idea which commentator on P??ini B?htlingk > has been referring to. > > I suspect that B?htlingk had in mind a passage which he had published > himself in his edition of P??ini?s A???dhy?y? (published in 1839; > B?htlingk was > 24 years old at that time!). At the end of the commentary on P??. 3.3.110 > we read there: "... k?? ya??im ity?di" (P?nini's acht B?cher grammatischer > Regeln. Vol. 1, p. 173). In the "Einleitung" added at the beginning of the > second volume of this edition (published in 1840) B?htlingk has provided > information about the Calcutta commentary on the A???dhy?y? on which his > own edition was based. I don't have it at hand to check, but I suppose that > the same text is to be read in this modern commentary began by > Dharan?dhara and completed by K???n?tha at the suggestion of Colebrooke in > 1809 (see vol. 2, pp. xxxvii?xxxviii of B?htlingk?s edition). > > All the best, > Dragomir Dimitrov > > ________________________________________ > > Dr. habil. Dragomir Dimitrov > Indologie und Tibetologie > Philipps-Universit?t Marburg > Deutschhausstr. 12 > D-35032 Marburg > Germany > > Tel.: +49 6421 28 24640, +49 178 9190340 > E-mail: dimitrov at staff.uni-marburg.de > http://www.uni-marburg.de/indologie > ________________________________________ > > > > > Thank you to Corinna Wessels-Mevissen and Nivedita Rout who replied > > off-list. > > > > Harry Spier > > > > On Fri, Oct 28, 2016 at 8:22 PM, Harry Spier > > wrote: > > Dear list members: > > > > A g?yatr? mantra mantra to V?yu is: > > sarvapr???ya vidmahe > > ya??ihast?ya dh?mahi > > tan no v?yu?pracoday?t > > I've seen a translation of ya??ihast?ya as "holding the mace" > > but are statues or pictoral representations of V?yu, and if so > > with a mace? but Monier-Williams also has a meaning of ya??i > > as "sacrificing" which he says comes from a commentator on Panini > > 3-3-110 . By any chance could someone point out the commentator > > and point me to the passage MW refers to. Also based on that > > definition of ya??i does a translation of ya??ihast?ya as > > "to the one who sacrifices with his hands" make sense. refering to > > the wind fanning the flames of the sacrifice. Thanks, Harry Spier > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing > committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or > unsubscribe) > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jpo at austin.utexas.edu Sun Oct 30 13:01:05 2016 From: jpo at austin.utexas.edu (Olivelle, J P) Date: Sun, 30 Oct 16 13:01:05 +0000 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Ear Message-ID: A colleague asked me about the practice of holding one?s ear, especially in asking forgiveness. Are there textual sources for it? I have seen this practice in texts, but cannot find them right now. If, off the top of your heads, you can find one, do let me know. Thanks. Patrick From mmdesh at umich.edu Sun Oct 30 13:15:47 2016 From: mmdesh at umich.edu (Madhav Deshpande) Date: Sun, 30 Oct 16 09:15:47 -0400 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Ear In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Dear Patrick, Take a look at the attached page (28) from Lanman's Sanskrit Reader, line 2 from bottom. Madhav On Sun, Oct 30, 2016 at 9:01 AM, Olivelle, J P wrote: > A colleague asked me about the practice of holding one?s ear, especially > in asking forgiveness. Are there textual sources for it? I have seen this > practice in texts, but cannot find them right now. If, off the top of your > heads, you can find one, do let me know. Thanks. > > Patrick > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing > committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or > unsubscribe) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Lanman-Sanskrit-Reader-p-28.tiff Type: image/tiff Size: 386022 bytes Desc: not available URL: From jpo at austin.utexas.edu Sun Oct 30 13:56:10 2016 From: jpo at austin.utexas.edu (Olivelle, J P) Date: Sun, 30 Oct 16 13:56:10 +0000 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Ear In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <2B9E978B-5FDD-42AA-BEA7-0CD3206237AA@austin.utexas.edu> There we go!! Thank you Madhav. Patrick On Oct 30, 2016, at 8:15 AM, Madhav Deshpande > wrote: Dear Patrick, Take a look at the attached page (28) from Lanman's Sanskrit Reader, line 2 from bottom. Madhav On Sun, Oct 30, 2016 at 9:01 AM, Olivelle, J P > wrote: A colleague asked me about the practice of holding one?s ear, especially in asking forgiveness. Are there textual sources for it? I have seen this practice in texts, but cannot find them right now. If, off the top of your heads, you can find one, do let me know. Thanks. Patrick _______________________________________________ INDOLOGY mailing list INDOLOGY at list.indology.info indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ssandahl at sympatico.ca Sun Oct 30 15:37:28 2016 From: ssandahl at sympatico.ca (stella sandahl) Date: Sun, 30 Oct 16 11:37:28 -0400 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Ear In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <08E02079-0C6A-4851-9A60-8E759A672D43@sympatico.ca> Dear Madhav and Patrick, I understood that touching the ground first is also part of the "ritual", not just the ears. Best to all Stella On Oct 30, 2016, at 9:15 AM, Madhav Deshpande wrote: > Dear Patrick, > > Take a look at the attached page (28) from Lanman's Sanskrit Reader, line 2 from bottom. > > Madhav > > On Sun, Oct 30, 2016 at 9:01 AM, Olivelle, J P wrote: > A colleague asked me about the practice of holding one?s ear, especially in asking forgiveness. Are there textual sources for it? I have seen this practice in texts, but cannot find them right now. If, off the top of your heads, you can find one, do let me know. Thanks. > > Patrick > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dr.rupalimokashi at gmail.com Mon Oct 31 08:09:48 2016 From: dr.rupalimokashi at gmail.com (Dr. Rupali Mokashi) Date: Mon, 31 Oct 16 13:39:48 +0530 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Text and translation of Ashokaavadan Message-ID: Dear List members can you share pdf of the text and translation of Ashokaavadana Regards Rupali Mokashi -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From royce.wiles at gmail.com Mon Oct 31 08:14:59 2016 From: royce.wiles at gmail.com (Royce Wiles) Date: Mon, 31 Oct 16 19:14:59 +1100 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Text and translation of Ashokaavadan In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <5F5279DA-A322-4AFF-9440-4323132F1531@gmail.com> The Legend of King Asoka ( A Study and Translation of the Asokavadana ) by John S. Strong Published by Motilal Banarsidass (2002) ISBN 10: 8120806166 ISBN 13: 9788120806160 > On 31 Oct 2016, at 19:09, Dr. Rupali Mokashi wrote: > > Dear List members > can you share pdf of the text and translation of Ashokaavadana > Regards > Rupali Mokashi > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From krishnaprasadah.g at gmail.com Mon Oct 31 16:18:20 2016 From: krishnaprasadah.g at gmail.com (Krishnaprasad G) Date: Mon, 31 Oct 16 21:48:20 +0530 Subject: =?utf-8?Q?[INDOLOGY]_Searching_PDF_of_Ny=C4=81yadar=C5=9Banabindu=E1=B8=A5_by_K=C4=81lip=C4=81da_Tark=C4=81c=C4=81rya?= Message-ID: Dear Scholars I am searching for Ny?yadar?anabindu? by K?lip?da Tark?c?rya Which contains Three lecture series on Ny?ya Philosophy 76 Pages PUB: [V?r??as?] : V?r??aseyasa?skr?tavi?vavidy?laya? Any help is highly admired Thanks Krishna Prasad Research Assistant Dvaita Vedanta Research Foundation PhD Research Scholar Karnataka Sanskrit University -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From hermantull at gmail.com Mon Oct 31 19:24:51 2016 From: hermantull at gmail.com (Herman Tull) Date: Mon, 31 Oct 16 15:24:51 -0400 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Ear In-Reply-To: <08E02079-0C6A-4851-9A60-8E759A672D43@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: There is a lovely (short) scene in the newly released documentary, Gurukulam (http://www.gurukulamfilm.com/) that shows this ritual sequence of events (bowing to the floor, touching of the ears). Herman Tull On Sun, Oct 30, 2016 at 11:37 AM, stella sandahl wrote: > Dear Madhav and Patrick, > I understood that touching the ground first is also part of the "ritual", > not just the ears. > Best to all > Stella > > On Oct 30, 2016, at 9:15 AM, Madhav Deshpande wrote: > > Dear Patrick, > > Take a look at the attached page (28) from Lanman's Sanskrit Reader, > line 2 from bottom. > > Madhav > > On Sun, Oct 30, 2016 at 9:01 AM, Olivelle, J P > wrote: > >> A colleague asked me about the practice of holding one?s ear, especially >> in asking forgiveness. Are there textual sources for it? I have seen this >> practice in texts, but cannot find them right now. If, off the top of your >> heads, you can find one, do let me know. Thanks. >> >> Patrick >> _______________________________________________ >> INDOLOGY mailing list >> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info >> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing >> committee) >> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or >> unsubscribe) > > > _________________________ > ______________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing > committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or > unsubscribe) > > > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing > committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or > unsubscribe) > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: