[INDOLOGY] bhakti

[Nagaraj Paturi]

Correction:

Brahmin tag is not used, not required, nor does it sell for any other goods
or services not part of 'Hindu' 'religious' 'rituals'. Life of Indians is
enormously much beyond 'Hindu' 'religious' 'rituals'. In the case of goods
and services related to all those aspects beyond Life of Indians is
enormously much beyond 'Hindu' 'religious' 'rituals' ,  In all these cases,
Brahmin is not equal to good. It can be said that in all these cases,
Brahmin is equal to not good also.

On Mon, Nov 14, 2016 at 2:33 PM, Nagaraj Paturi <nagarajpaturi at gmail.com>
wrote:

> Thanks Robert for bringing in the Veerashaiva Veda learning fact into the
> discussion. I wanted to mention that. I was looking for references such as
>
> ( in Kannada: Āsthānavidvān M.G. Naṃjuṃḍārādhya, _Vīraśaiva Vedādhikāra
> Vijaya_. Mysore: Sree Panchacharya Electric Press, 1st ed. 1969, 2nd ed.
> 1981. 85 pp.).
>
> that you mentioned. Now, we have it here, thanks to your post now.
>
> I heard many Virashaiva boys here in Telangana, where I stay now and in
> Rayalaseema(southern Andhra Pradesh ) where I used to stay earlier, recite
> Vedas melodiously with authentic confident voices.
>
> You were right in thinking that things are different with Arya Samaj in
> north India. In north India, Arya Samaj is much bigger than in south
> India.  Here in Hyderabad where I stay now, we have a close to north
> India intensity of Arya Samaj.
>
> You wanted to know which other organizations I had in mind.
>
> You already have the Virashaivas from the premodern context.  Still many
> contemporary sources on Virashaivas describe them as opposed to the Vedas.
> Thanks for providing reference to establish that they are not and they
> learn the Vedas and fought to retain the right to learn when that right was
> challenged.
>
> Gayatri Parivar, Svaadhyaaya, Sri Aurobindo organizations, Chinmaya
> Mission etc. Most of the 'modern' 'Hindu' organizations do not recognize
> the exclusive right of Brahmins over Veda learning. Post-Independent Indian
> governments and courts have been repeatedly questioning the exclusive right
> of Brahmins over Veda learning or priestly activities in temples.
>
> >There are other, similar, labels that are intended to serve as a kind of
> indications of quality linked to brahmins. Throughout southern India, one
> finds restaurants bearing the sign 'Brahmins Hotel' (or 'Udupi Hotel',
> because Mādhva brahmins from the Udupi region have the reputation – in my
> view fully justified – of being good cooks).
>
> ----- You were right in limiting your observation to south India. Even
> within south India, this applies only to the vegetarian hotels. Majority of
> the population in the parts where Udupi Brahmin hotels do exist are
> non-vegetarians. Even within south India, Kerala is predominantly
> non-vegetarian. Tamil Nadu has Iyer hotels. Kerala has Arya Bhavans. But in
> most parts of Kerala, the number of vegetarian hotels is negligibly
> small. In Maharashtra, in Pune where I stayed for some years, vegetarian
> hotels have the label "Pure Veg" without any Brahmin tag. Gujarat is
> predominantly vegetarian. Udupi Brahmin tag is not used, not required
> there. In coastal Andhra Pradesh, there are a huge number of vegetarian
> hotels which do not carry the Brahmin tag in their sign Boards. There is
> now a big Pure Veg Dhaba culture in Hyderabad. None of the sign boards of
> these dhabas carries the Brahmin tag.
>
> Brahmin tag is not used, not required, nor does it sell for any other
> goods or services not part of 'Hindu' 'religious' 'rituals'. Life of
> Indians is enormously much beyond 'Hindu' 'religious' 'rituals'. In the
> case of good and services related to all those aspects beyond Life of
> Indians is enormously much beyond 'Hindu' 'religious' 'rituals' ,  In all
> these cases, Brahmin is not equal to good. It can be said that in all these
> cases, Brahmin is equal to not good also.
>
> Even within the goods and services related 'Hindu' 'religious' 'rituals' ,
> grocery used in the rituals is sold in a shop without a Brahmin tag. Milk
> is sold exclusively by a non-Brahmin milk-vendor. Flowers are sold by the
> non-Brahmin flower-vendor. In a marriage is instrumental music is played by
> non-Brahmin music player and so on. In all these cases, Brahmin is not
> equal to good. It can be said that in all these cases, Brahmin is equal to
> not good also.
>
> Matters where 'Vedic' = 'brahmin' = 'good' are a miniscule part of the
> life of Indians. Even here, this association of 'quality', ' authenticity'
> etc.  with Brahmins is very much part of association of 'quality' ,'
> authenticity'  etc. with a certain caste in the case of the activities
> that have been traditionally the right cum responsibility of that caste.
> Traditional activities like Veda-learning and Veda-teaching etc. have been
> no more the exclusive rights cum responsibilities of Brahmins than the
> different other activities were exclusive rights cum responsibilities of
> different other castes.
>
> With the life style changes among Indians , certain traditional
> caste-occupations  which are paying as per the modern life style have been
> retained by the caste members , certain other traditional caste-occupations
> which are not paying nor status-giving as per the modern life style have
> not  been retained by the caste members.  It is in this context that I
> mentioned Brahmins leaving their traditional caste occupation.
>
> Today, for something to be 'good' in India, it need not be 'Brahmin' nor
> 'Vedic'.
>
> In the case of 'Hindu' 'religious' 'rituals', 'Brahmin' could be 'good'.
> But even there the use of the word 'Vedic' (Vaidik, Vaidika the local
> equivalents of this English word ) is known only to the 'educated'.
>
>
> On Mon, Nov 14, 2016 at 5:05 AM, Robert Zydenbos <zydenbos at uni-muenchen.de
> > wrote:
>
>> Nagaraj Paturi wrote:
>>
>> > Dear Robert,
>> >
>> >>It is basically simple: the brāhmaṇa varṇa claims the exclusive right
>> to vedādhyāpana, in other words: traditionally, brahmins decide what the
>> Vedas and ‘Vedic’ literature are and what their meaning is.
>> >
>> >> The words ‘Veda’ and ‘Vedic’ at some point in time acquired a special
>> halo, and this is associated with the brāhmaṇa varṇa in its idealized,
>> mythical form (cf. BhG XVIII.42: śamo damas tapaḥ śaucaṃ, etc.).
>> >
>> > ------- Not after Arya Samaj and other organizations similar to that
>> which are in vogue in huge numbers today.
>>
>> Here I beg to disagree.
>>
>> In all my years of living in India I have not been able to see that
>> either the Arya Samaj in "huge numbers", or other organizations (which
>> ones?) in "huge numbers", have been anywhere near to giving the term
>> 'Vedic' a new, non-brahminical twist. With all due respect: in 'my'
>> significantly big part of India, the Arya Samaj is just an obscure club
>> with a shabby office in a lost corner of Bangalore city where intercaste
>> couples get married according to a 'Vedic' rite, only to quickly forget all
>> about the Samaj after the wedding.
>>
>> Perhaps things are different in some corner of northern India. Yet I am
>> still firmly convinced that for the vast majority of Hindus, 'Vedic' =
>> brahminical.
>>
>> > People moving away from their traditional caste occupations (right cum
>> responsibility occupations) is happening for all those occupations which
>> are no longer givers of either a worldly benefit or a social status. Number
>> of Brahmin families  moving away from their Vedaadhyayana and
>> Vedaadhyaapana is on huge rise. Priestly Brahmins are depressed that they
>> are not able to get marriage alliances.
>>
>> That may be true, but it is not relevant. Those who traditionally have
>> the right to vedādhyāpana may choose not to exercise that right. But they
>> still have that right. Those who traditionally do not have the right remain
>> without that right.
>>
>> Many years ago, there was a curious legal case in Karnataka over the
>> question whether Vīraśaivas have vedādhikāra (this was objected to by
>> certain brahmins). The court finally decided in 1935, after a tortuous
>> discussion about the relative standing of different communities, that
>> Vīraśaivas do have that right, and a book about this matter was published
>> (in Kannada: Āsthānavidvān M.G. Naṃjuṃḍārādhya, _Vīraśaiva Vedādhikāra
>> Vijaya_. Mysore: Sree Panchacharya Electric Press, 1st ed. 1969, 2nd ed.
>> 1981. 85 pp.).
>>
>> THAT is relevant. Irrespective of what the worldwide scholarly community
>> and you and I may think about the right to vedādhyāpana, the fact is that
>> there are brahmins who believe it their privilege as a matter of
>> birthright, and they decide what is 'Vedic' and what isn't, as well as
>> about who else is allowed to decide what 'Vedic' teachings are. Their
>> belief is so strong that they are willing to go to court over it, and the
>> court needs a lot of time to decide. It was considered so important by the
>> victors that a book was written about it, and when I bought my copy in 1996
>> it had already gone into a second edition.
>>
>> There are other, similar, labels that are intended to serve as a kind of
>> indications of quality linked to brahmins. Throughout southern India, one
>> finds restaurants bearing the sign 'Brahmins Hotel' (or 'Udupi Hotel',
>> because Mādhva brahmins from the Udupi region have the reputation – in my
>> view fully justified – of being good cooks).
>>
>> The associations seem clear: 'Vedic' = 'brahmin' = 'good'. Whether we
>> agree or not, is something else. :-)
>>
>> RZ
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Nagaraj Paturi
>
> Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.
>
> Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies
>
> FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of  Liberal Education,
>
> (Pune, Maharashtra, INDIA )
>
>
>
>



-- 
Nagaraj Paturi

Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.

Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies

FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of  Liberal Education,

(Pune, Maharashtra, INDIA )


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