[INDOLOGY] bhakti

Nagaraj Paturi nagarajpaturi at gmail.com
Sat Nov 5 06:41:41 UTC 2016


drAviDa Veda concept is a different cultural process than the process of
attempting to gain respect by claiming a certain cultural item to be Vedic
either in the sense of being in Vedas or in the sense of  'belonging to the
lineage of the cultural/textual complex of which the Vedas are (of course,
vital) part'.

In 'drAviDa (in the sense of Tamil not at all in the sense of
Dravidian) Veda' something which is not in Sanskrit or Vedic language is
being called  Veda itself not ' Vedic' . drAvida Veda is a concept of
parallel Veda. It is a challenge to the idea that Veda has to be
essentially in Vedic language or 'Vedic Sanskrit' recited with its svara
system.'Parallel to Veda' is not counter to or alternative / substitute to
the Veda.  The concept of parallel Veda is that it is to be placed
alongside the Veda with status equal to that of /to be respected equally
as- the Veda.

The significant difference between the recitation styles the Veda and the
drAviDa Veda is that the former is pronounced with svara and has its own
'musical style' called sAma Veda while the latter is pronounced without
svara and has two styles of recitation one the s'loka-like pronunciation
and Tamil style musical rendering (e.g. tiruppAvai pAs'uram rendering in
Bharata Natyam)

On Fri, Nov 4, 2016 at 8:46 PM, George Hart <glhart at berkeley.edu> wrote:

> Gaining legitimacy through identification with the Vedas is nothing new.
> The Srivaishnavas took the first-millennium hymns of the Divyaprabandham
> and made them the “Tamil Veda.” I’m not sure exactly when this happened,
> but probably about the 10th or 11th millennium CE. The poems themselves
> describe how moving they are when sung, but unfortunately in order to
> stress their “Vedic” status, they came to be recited like the Vedas,
> mechanically and without the music, which must have been quite beautiful.
> When recited in front of a deity, certain phonemes (I forget exactly which
> ones) are changed to softer phonemes lest the reciter inadvertently pollute
> the deity. Recitation of the Divyaprabandham is part of the worship in many
> Vaishnava temples in the south, and its words are considered on a par with
> those of the Vedas. The Divyaprabandham itself, which dates to the first
> millennium CE, goes to great lengths to identify Vishnu worship with the
> Vedas. George
>
> On Nov 3, 2016, at 11:43 PM, Nagaraj Paturi <nagarajpaturi at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> Dear Patrick,
>
> I went to the website you directed us to.
>
> It is an ISKCON activity.
>
> It is well known that ISKCON is based on Goudiya Vaishnava Vedanta which
> is one of the Bhakti (centred) schools of Vedanta.
>
> What they are saying here is that GEV is based on their philosophy. Their
> philosophy is a school of Vedanta and Vedanta is Vedic. So GEV is based on
> Vedic Bhakti Vedanta is not wrong. The word Bhakti Yoga is used here in
> that sense. So I don't see anything wrong in the word Vedic here.
>
> The word 'Vedic' is not always used in the sense of ' as in Vedas'. The
> word is quite often used in the sense of 'belonging to the lineage of the
> cultural/textual complex of which the Vedas are (of course, vital)
> part. From the insider's point of view , Vaidika is Veda- aviruddha,
> Veda-anuroopa, Veda-anusaari etc. not necessarily Vedochcharita/Vedas'ruta.
>
> It probably would be an interesting study to survey how far the pull for
> such cults among people is based on their claims to be Vedic.
>
> For something which is already 'Hindu' , the claim of Vedic, I guess, does
> not add any new value.
>
> For that matter , it is intriguing to see that pamphlets are distributed
> in India, (at least here in the Telugu region) claiming that Jesus is in
> the Vedas. 'Mohammed in the Vedas' is also one of the internet-popular
> themes.  It is interesting to study the motives behind such claims.
>
> On Fri, Nov 4, 2016 at 7:39 AM, patrick mccartney <psdmccartney at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Dear Friends,
>>
>> Is this the first mention of the term 'bhakti' ?
>>
>> yasya deve parā *bhaktir* yathā deve tathā gurau /
>> tasyaite kathitā hy arthāḥ prakāśante mahātmanaḥ prakāśante mahātmanaḥ //
>> SvetUp_6.23 //
>>
>>
>>  I ask this question as I'm trying to understand the following
>> statement:
>>
>> *GEV is based on the sacred Vedic principles of bhakti-yoga. *
>> http://www.ecovillage.org.in/our-projects#_VEC
>>
>> While 'bhakti' is mentioned at least in the above upanishad, I thought
>> 'bhakti yoga' was quite clearly a post-vedic development, and that the
>> bhakti movement developed from the 6th century CE. To the devotee this
>> statement might seem unproblematic, but to the scholar it appears to
>> conceptually and temporally conflate disparate things.
>>
>> As I am certainly not an expert on bhakti I would appreciate
>> clarification.
>>
>> I am interested in how organisations operationalise the 'vedic' sign in
>> their marketing and promotional material to generate 'authenticity' and
>> legitimacy.
>>
>>
>>
>> All the best,
>>
>> Patrick McCartney, PhD
>> Fellow
>> School of Culture, History & Language
>> College of the Asia-Pacific
>> The Australian National University
>> Canberra, Australia, 0200
>>
>>
>> Skype - psdmccartney
>> Phone + Whatsapp:  +61 414 954 748
>> Twitter - @psdmccartney
>>
>>
>> academia <https://anu-au.academia.edu/patrickmccartney>
>>
>>    -
>>
>> Linkedin
>> <https://www.linkedin.com/profile/view?id=241756978&trk=nav_responsive_tab_profile>
>>
>> Edanz
>> <https://www.edanzediting.com/expert/anthropology/patrick-mccartney>
>>
>> #yogabodyANU2016 symposium <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X80KxW2bb0w>
>> <http://chl.anu.edu.au/news-events/events/658/yoga-and-body-past-and-present-symposium?#tab>
>>
>> Ep1 - Imagining Sanskrit Land <https://youtu.be/jMi7tkPBbJ4>
>>
>> Ep 2 - Total-am <https://youtu.be/7tAp8m9RHPU>
>>
>> Ep 3 - Jalam ≠ Chillum <https://youtu.be/cLZeuCT_mwQ>
>>
>> Ep 4 - It's Time to get Married
>> <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_B3un7aHEAc>
>>
>> A Day in our Ashram
>> <https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=ek+din+hamaare+ashram+mein>
>>
>> Stop animation short film of Shakuntala
>> <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LVqBD_2P4Pg>
>>
>> Forced to Clean Human Waste <http://youtu.be/y3XfjbwqC_g>
>>
>> One of my favourite song
>> <http://trinityroots.bandcamp.com/track/all-we-be>s
>>
>> The Philosophy of Cycling
>> <http://elibrary.com.ng/UploadFiles/file0_2221.pdf>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
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>
>
>
> --
> Nagaraj Paturi
>
> Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.
>
> Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies
>
> FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of  Liberal Education,
>
> (Pune, Maharashtra, INDIA )
>
>
>
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-- 
Nagaraj Paturi

Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.

Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies

FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of  Liberal Education,

(Pune, Maharashtra, INDIA )


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