[INDOLOGY] Revolving wheel in ancient Indian literature
Luis Gonzalez-Reimann
reimann at berkeley.edu
Sat Mar 19 01:56:40 UTC 2016
Thanks, Mak.
The ideal year of 360 days was carried over into the Puranic system of
kalpas, also known as days of Brahmā. A year of Brahmā lasts for 360 of
his days (along with their 360 nights). The duration of a kalpa in human
years is based on this year of 360 days. So is the 100-years duration of
Brahmā's life, which, in turn, continues with the Vedic (already present
in the R̥gveda) notion of 100 years as the ideal human lifetime.
Luis
_____
On 3/18/2016 5:48 PM, Bill Mak wrote:
> As far as the number 360 and the months are concerned, it should be
> noted that there is the idea of sāvanamāsa or "civil month", which is
> an ideal month consisted of exactly 30 days. Hence, 12 civil months
> would make up an ideal year of 360 days. This notion is suggested in
> most older jyotiṣa texts, from Vedaṅgajyotiṣa to Yavanajātaka though
> not necessarily spelt out explicitly and is not known to be applied in
> any known calendar in India. Hence, among the uniquely Indian four
> types of months, one finds beside saura (solar, c. 30.5 days), cāndra
> (synodic, c. 29.5 days), nākṣatra (sidereal, c. 27.3 days), but also
> sāvana (30 days). Kumārajīva (4th century) in his description of the
> Indian (Vedic) months gave the values of these four months which are
> identical to VJ. YJ 79.11 gives definition of sāvanamāsa (triṃśaddināḥ
> sāvanamāsa) and the lord of the year system in YJ 79.54 suggests also
> a year consisted of 360 days.
>
> Bill Mak
>
> --
> Bill M. Mak, PhD
> Associate Professor
>
> Institute for Research in Humanities, Kyoto University
> Yoshidahonmachi, Sakyo-ku, Kyoto, Japan 606-8501
> 〒606-8501 京都市左京区吉田本町
> 京都大学人文科学研究所
>
> email: mak at zinbun.kyoto-u.ac.jp <mailto:mak at zinbun.kyoto-u.ac.jp>
> Tel:+81-75-753-6961
> Fax:+81-75-753-6903
>
> copies of my publications may be found at:
> http://www.billmak.com
>
> On 2016/03/19, at 6:54, Jean-Michel Delire wrote:
>
>> I agree about the very common division of the year into 360 days (and
>> nights), plus 5 additive days (sometimes called epagomenoi). It also
>> existed in Ancient Egypt. On the other hand, the 12 months are not
>> the 28 days months, which are sideral months (the moon passes through
>> all the constellations/naksatras in about 27,5 days), but the synodic
>> months during which the moon goes from one relative position to the
>> sun - by instance a full moon - to the next similar position, through
>> last quarter, new moon and first quarter. The synodic duration, of
>> 29,5 days approximately, is much closer to 30 days. This was already
>> known by the Vedanga Jyotisa, although the duration of the year is
>> 366 days in that case.
>>
>> Jean Michel Delire, University of Brussels
>>
>>
>>> That's true Dominik, but we must consider that any tradition that
>>> counts
>>> the days in a year ends up with 360 days, a good divisible number, plus
>>> 5. It happens in Mesoamerican calendars, where those "extra" days are
>>> considered negative or empty. They are called /nemontemi/ in Nahuatl.
>>>
>>> So a symbolical year of 360 plus days doesn't automatically mean that
>>> its origin is Mesopotamian. 360 can easily be divided by 12 to give 12
>>> months, and this can be correlated with the 27/28 days in a lunar
>>> cycle/month. It is not a perfect fit, which is why most calendars
>>> end up
>>> being soli-lunar, with either extra months or days. But 360 is a good
>>> symbolical number in a decimal system in addition to its importance
>>> as a
>>> sexagesimal one.
>>>
>>> Luis
>>> _____
>>>
>>> On 3/18/2016 12:17 PM, Dominik Wujastyk wrote:
>>>> The reference to 360 spokes is a sexagesimal number expressed in
>>>> decimal. This certainly points to the mathematical traditions of
>>>> Mesopotamia.
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Professor Dominik Wujastyk*
>>>> <http://ualberta.Academia.edu/DominikWujastyk>
>>>> Singhmar Chair in Classical Indian Society and Polity
>>>> Department of History and Classics
>>>> <http://historyandclassics.ualberta.ca/>
>>>> University of Alberta, Canada
>>>>
>>>> On 18 March 2016 at 08:52, George Thompson <gthomgt at gmail.com
>>>> <mailto:gthomgt at gmail.com>
>>>> <mailto:gthomgt at gmail.com>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Hello all,
>>>>
>>>> Madhav's passage is RV 1.164.11. By chance, I've been looking at
>>>> this hymn today.
>>>>
>>>> George Thompson
>>>>
>>>> On Fri, Mar 18, 2016 at 9:04 AM, Madhav Deshpande
>>>> <mmdesh at umich.edu <mailto:mmdesh at umich.edu>
>>>> <mailto:mmdesh at umich.edu>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> The idea of a rotating wheel of time goes all the way back to
>>>> the Rigveda: dv?da??ra? na hi taj jar?ya vavarti cakram pari
>>>> dy?m ?tasya (don't have the textual ref at hand). The idea of
>>>> the spokes of the wheel going up and down is referred to in
>>>> Sanskrit lit in many places with expressions like
>>>> cakra-nemi-krama and cakr?rapa?kti.
>>>>
>>>> Madhav Deshpande
>>>>
>>>> On Fri, Mar 18, 2016 at 8:42 AM, Artur Karp <karp at uw.edu.pl
>>>> <mailto:karp at uw.edu.pl>
>>>> <mailto:karp at uw.edu.pl>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Dear List,
>>>>
>>>> Mahabharata I, 29. 2-5 and Sumangalavilasini
>>>> (Buddhaghosa's commentary to Mahaparinibbana-sutta) VI,
>>>> 26 contain images of a revolving wheel (with 360?
>>>> spokes), guarded by figures with swords in hands, and by
>>>> two serpents. Vi?vakarma/Vissakamma is mentioned as the
>>>> wheel's constructor.
>>>>
>>>> Is that - or similar - image present somewhere else in the
>>>> ancient Indian literature?
>>>>
>>>> Thanks in advance for your comments -
>>>>
>>>> Artur Karp
>>>>
>>>> South Asian Studies Deptt (emeritus), University of
>>>> Warsaw, Poland
>>>>
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>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Madhav M. Deshpande
>>>> Professor of Sanskrit and Linguistics
>>>> Department of Asian Languages and Cultures
>>>> 202 South Thayer Street, Suite 6111
>>>> The University of Michigan
>>>> Ann Arbor, MI 48104-1608, USA
>>>>
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>>>
>>
>>
>>
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