[INDOLOGY] Revolving wheel in ancient Indian literature

Luis Gonzalez-Reimann reimann at berkeley.edu
Sat Mar 19 01:56:40 UTC 2016


Thanks, Mak.

The ideal year of 360 days was carried over into the Puranic system of 
kalpas, also known as days of Brahmā. A year of Brahmā lasts for 360 of 
his days (along with their 360 nights). The duration of a kalpa in human 
years is based on this year of 360 days. So is the 100-years duration of 
Brahmā's life, which, in turn, continues with the Vedic (already present 
in the R̥gveda) notion of 100 years as the ideal human lifetime.

Luis
_____

On 3/18/2016 5:48 PM, Bill Mak wrote:
> As far as the number 360 and the months are concerned, it should be 
> noted that there is the idea of sāvanamāsa or "civil month", which is 
> an ideal month consisted of exactly 30 days. Hence, 12 civil months 
> would make up an ideal year of 360 days. This notion is suggested in 
> most older jyotiṣa texts, from Vedaṅgajyotiṣa to Yavanajātaka though 
> not necessarily spelt out explicitly and is not known to be applied in 
> any known calendar in India. Hence, among the uniquely Indian four 
> types of months, one finds beside saura (solar, c. 30.5 days), cāndra 
> (synodic, c. 29.5 days), nākṣatra (sidereal, c. 27.3 days), but also 
> sāvana (30 days). Kumārajīva (4th century) in his description of the 
> Indian (Vedic) months gave the values of these four months which are 
> identical to VJ. YJ 79.11 gives definition of sāvanamāsa (triṃśaddināḥ 
> sāvanamāsa) and the lord of the year system in YJ 79.54 suggests also 
> a year consisted of 360 days.
>
> Bill Mak
>
> -- 
> Bill M. Mak, PhD
> Associate Professor
>
> Institute for Research in Humanities, Kyoto University
> Yoshidahonmachi, Sakyo-ku, Kyoto, Japan 606-8501
> 〒606-8501 京都市左京区吉田本町
> 京都大学人文科学研究所
>
> email: mak at zinbun.kyoto-u.ac.jp <mailto:mak at zinbun.kyoto-u.ac.jp>
> Tel:+81-75-753-6961
> Fax:+81-75-753-6903
>
> copies of my publications may be found at:
> http://www.billmak.com
>
> On 2016/03/19, at 6:54, Jean-Michel Delire wrote:
>
>> I agree about the very common division of the year into 360 days (and 
>> nights), plus 5 additive days (sometimes called epagomenoi). It also 
>> existed in Ancient Egypt. On the other hand, the 12 months are not 
>> the 28 days months, which are sideral months (the moon passes through 
>> all the constellations/naksatras in about 27,5 days), but the synodic 
>> months during which the moon goes from one relative position to the 
>> sun - by instance a full moon - to the next similar position, through 
>> last quarter, new moon and first quarter. The synodic duration, of 
>> 29,5 days approximately, is much closer to 30 days. This was already 
>> known by the Vedanga Jyotisa, although the duration of the year is 
>> 366 days in that case.
>>
>> Jean Michel Delire, University of Brussels
>>
>>
>>> That's true Dominik, but we must consider that any tradition that 
>>> counts
>>> the days in a year ends up with 360 days, a good divisible number, plus
>>> 5. It happens in Mesoamerican calendars, where those "extra" days are
>>> considered negative or empty. They are called /nemontemi/ in Nahuatl.
>>>
>>> So a symbolical year of 360 plus days doesn't automatically mean that
>>> its origin is Mesopotamian. 360 can easily be divided by 12 to give 12
>>> months, and this can be correlated with the 27/28 days in a lunar
>>> cycle/month. It is not a perfect fit, which is why most calendars 
>>> end up
>>> being soli-lunar, with either extra months or days. But 360 is a good
>>> symbolical number in a decimal system in addition to its importance 
>>> as a
>>> sexagesimal one.
>>>
>>> Luis
>>> _____
>>>
>>> On 3/18/2016 12:17 PM, Dominik Wujastyk wrote:
>>>> The reference to 360 spokes is a sexagesimal number expressed in
>>>> decimal.  This certainly points to the mathematical traditions of
>>>> Mesopotamia.
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Professor Dominik Wujastyk* 
>>>> <http://ualberta.Academia.edu/DominikWujastyk>
>>>> Singhmar Chair in Classical Indian Society and Polity
>>>> Department of History and Classics
>>>> <http://historyandclassics.ualberta.ca/>
>>>> University of Alberta, Canada
>>>>
>>>> On 18 March 2016 at 08:52, George Thompson <gthomgt at gmail.com 
>>>> <mailto:gthomgt at gmail.com>
>>>> <mailto:gthomgt at gmail.com>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>    Hello all,
>>>>
>>>>    Madhav's passage is RV 1.164.11.  By chance, I've been looking at
>>>>    this hymn today.
>>>>
>>>>    George Thompson
>>>>
>>>>    On Fri, Mar 18, 2016 at 9:04 AM, Madhav Deshpande
>>>>    <mmdesh at umich.edu <mailto:mmdesh at umich.edu> 
>>>> <mailto:mmdesh at umich.edu>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>        The idea of a rotating wheel of time goes all the way back to
>>>>        the Rigveda: dv?da??ra? na hi taj jar?ya vavarti cakram pari
>>>>        dy?m ?tasya (don't have the textual ref at hand).  The idea of
>>>>        the spokes of the wheel going up and down is referred to in
>>>>        Sanskrit lit in many places with expressions like
>>>>        cakra-nemi-krama and cakr?rapa?kti.
>>>>
>>>>        Madhav Deshpande
>>>>
>>>>        On Fri, Mar 18, 2016 at 8:42 AM, Artur Karp <karp at uw.edu.pl 
>>>> <mailto:karp at uw.edu.pl>
>>>>        <mailto:karp at uw.edu.pl>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>            Dear List,
>>>>
>>>>            Mahabharata I, 29. 2-5 and Sumangalavilasini
>>>>            (Buddhaghosa's commentary to Mahaparinibbana-sutta)  VI,
>>>>            26  contain images of a revolving wheel (with 360?
>>>>            spokes), guarded by figures with swords in hands, and by
>>>>            two serpents. Vi?vakarma/Vissakamma is mentioned as the
>>>>            wheel's constructor.
>>>>
>>>>            Is that - or similar - image present somewhere else in the
>>>>            ancient Indian literature?
>>>>
>>>>            Thanks in advance for your comments -
>>>>
>>>>            Artur Karp
>>>>
>>>>            South Asian Studies Deptt (emeritus), University of
>>>>            Warsaw, Poland
>>>>
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>>>>
>>>>        --
>>>>        Madhav M. Deshpande
>>>>        Professor of Sanskrit and Linguistics
>>>>        Department of Asian Languages and Cultures
>>>>        202 South Thayer Street, Suite 6111
>>>>        The University of Michigan
>>>>        Ann Arbor, MI 48104-1608, USA
>>>>
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>>
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