From hspier.muktabodha at gmail.com Tue Mar 1 00:31:23 2016 From: hspier.muktabodha at gmail.com (Harry Spier) Date: Mon, 29 Feb 16 19:31:23 -0500 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Indian Furniture Message-ID: Dear list members, I'm looking for illustrations and plans of Indian Furniture. Are there any books on Indian Furniture (either of a particular place and time) or a historical overview. Thanks, Harry Spier -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From McComas.Taylor at anu.edu.au Tue Mar 1 01:01:55 2016 From: McComas.Taylor at anu.edu.au (McComas Taylor) Date: Tue, 01 Mar 16 01:01:55 +0000 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Quick report on the Third Australian Spoken Sanskrit Summer School Message-ID: 'The Lion that is Sanskrit' 'There is a lion in the jungle. You don't hear it, you don't see it, but it is alive and well. The same could be said of Spoken Sanskrit. If you know where to look or where to listen, Spoken Sanskrit is thriving.' This is how Pandit Dr Sadananda Das of the University of Leipzig introduced the Third Australian Spoken Sanskrit Summer School held at the ANU Coast Campus at Kioloa, NSW. The twelve-day course, held 7-19 February 2016, had thirteen lucky students from as far away as Canada and the UK to take part. For many students each day began with a sun-rise dip in the Pacific Ocean, followed by a group meditation session on the sunny verandah of the London Shed. There were six hours of class each day, spanning simple grammatical constructions, chanting, and story-telling, and lots of drills. The classes were conducted almost exclusively in Sanskrit and for those who had only studied it as a textual language, this was a rich learning opportunity. Most attendees already had a good grasp of basic grammar, but as Pandit Das said (in Sanskrit), 'You know this material, but you need to connect with it'. Being able to read a classical language is one thing, but to be able to produce it, to speak it and to describe one's daily life in it is quite another. By the middle of the course most students could introduce themselves, describe their families and situations, and run through their routines with facility. A number of students remarked specifically on the value of the story-telling sessions. Pandit Das took a well-known narrative, the Heavenly Descent of the River Ganga, and explained it in simple Spoken Sanskrit using several synonyms for each word in the original text. This practice is close to the traditional style of written commentary which the students are used to seeing in regular classes, and helped them place the commentarial tradition in its original oral context. How does one manage a classical language in the modern world? One student complained that the word for bicycle (dvicakrika) was 'made up'. True, but what language was not made up by someone at some time? Everyone's favourite neologism was the Sanskrit word for kangaroo, dhani-kura?ga, which translates as 'receptacle-deer'. At least the many receptacle-deer that lazed around the classrooms at Kioloa had little to fear from the lion that is Spoken Sanskrit. Lots of beautiful photos here: https://www.dropbox.com/sh/qn324zrujhh5w4m/AADpAfDytBQuI9tgC7vUZ4QBa?dl=0 [https://cf.dropboxstatic.com/static/images/icons128/folder_dropbox.png] SSSS16 www.dropbox.com Shared with Dropbox ________________________________ McComas Taylor, Associate Professor College of Asia and the Pacific The Australian National University, Tel. + 61 2 6125 3179 Website: https://sites.google.com/site/mccomasanu/ Address: Baldessin Building 4.24, ANU, ACT 0200 Spoken Sanskrit in three minutes? Go on. Try it! ________________________________ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Joseph.Walser at tufts.edu Tue Mar 1 01:57:22 2016 From: Joseph.Walser at tufts.edu (Walser, Joseph) Date: Tue, 01 Mar 16 01:57:22 +0000 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Indian Furniture In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I am not sure if this is what you are after, but Jeannine Auboyer wrote a few things on thrones and chairs in ancient India. E.g. Le tro?ne et son symbolisme dans l'Inde ancienne by Jeannine AuboyerParis : Presses universitaires de France, 1949. Joseph Walser Associate Professor Department of Religion Tufts University ________________________________ From: INDOLOGY [indology-bounces at list.indology.info] on behalf of Harry Spier [hspier.muktabodha at gmail.com] Sent: Monday, February 29, 2016 7:31 PM To: Indology Subject: [INDOLOGY] Indian Furniture Dear list members, I'm looking for illustrations and plans of Indian Furniture. Are there any books on Indian Furniture (either of a particular place and time) or a historical overview. Thanks, Harry Spier -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From psdmccartney at gmail.com Tue Mar 1 03:00:52 2016 From: psdmccartney at gmail.com (patrick mccartney) Date: Tue, 01 Mar 16 13:30:52 +1030 Subject: [INDOLOGY] hin+du Message-ID: Dear Friends, Has anyone ever come across this parsing of 'Hindu' before? I was under the impression that 'Hindu' had an alternate etymology. In Sanskrut, the word Hindu is broken up as hin + du. 'Hin' means to remove and 'du' means darkness. In other words, anyone who makes efforts to remove the darkness of spiritual ignorance (that is, a seeker), is a Hindu. http://www.hindujagruti.org/hindu-rashtra/what-hjs-is-doing [image: Inline image 1] All the best, Patrick McCartney PhD Candidate School of Culture, History & Language College of the Asia-Pacific The Australian National University Canberra, Australia, 0200 Skype - psdmccartney Phone + Whatsapp: +61 414 954 748 - *https://www.linkedin.com/profile/view?id=241756978&trk=nav_responsive_tab_profile * - *https://anu-au.academia.edu/patrickmccartney * https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cy6lVABgjmg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LVqBD_2P4Pg http://youtu.be/y3XfjbwqC_g http://trinityroots.bandcamp.com/track/all-we-be -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From nagarajpaturi at gmail.com Tue Mar 1 03:29:51 2016 From: nagarajpaturi at gmail.com (Nagaraj Paturi) Date: Tue, 01 Mar 16 08:59:51 +0530 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Against the petition against Prof. Pollock Message-ID: Sanskrit is like Amrita : upamaa alankaara Sanskrit is Amrita: roopaka alankaara There is upamaana auchitya. There is no upamaana auchitya between the quote from Prof. Deshpande and these examples. -- Nagaraj Paturi Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA. Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of Liberal Education, (Pune, Maharashtra, INDIA ) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From nmisra at gmail.com Tue Mar 1 05:02:03 2016 From: nmisra at gmail.com (Nityanand Misra) Date: Tue, 01 Mar 16 10:32:03 +0530 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Against the petition against Prof. Pollock In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Dear list members, In the last two days, the petition against Prof. Pollock has received considerable attention in India and has been covered in several mainstream media publications. While this thread has focussed mainly on the misinterpretaion/misunderstanding of quote from a specific talk by Prof. Pollock, the news reports have primarily focussed on the political aspects (Prof. Pollock?s views on JNU), confirming my views expressed earlier on this thread that the petition may well be a response to Prof. Pollock signing the political-cum-solidarity statement on the hotly debated JNU issue. The website of the left-leaning The Hindu carried a small report titled ?Murthy foundation under fire.? The headline is not very accurate as it is Prof. Pollock under fire in the petition and not the Murthy foundation. The Huffington Post India, India arm of the liberal Huffington Post, carries a report today by Indrani Basu titled ?Pro-JNU Statement Spawns Petition For Ouster Of Sheldon Pollock As Editor Of Murty Classical Library.? The article largely cites the political aspects of the petition. Another article in the Economic Times (owned by the centrist Times Group) is titled ?JNU fallout: Petition wants Murty Classical Library to remove editor? states ?In what seems to be a retaliation for his condemning the government?s action against protesting students ...? It also adds ?Those aware of Pollock's work held that the signatories ?misrepresent Pollock to achieve their end.?? The centrist Indian Express published a report by Anushree Majumdar yesterday titled ?Murty library editor: Petition wants US scholar removed, cites JNU remarks.? The sub-title reads ?The petition also said that Pollock had been ?a prominent signatory of several statements which are of a purely political nature?.? [1] Staff Reporter (March 1 2016). Murthy foundation under fire. The Hindu. URL: http://www.thehindu.com/news/cities/bangalore/murthy-foundation-under-fire/article8297746.ece [2] Indrani Basu (March 1 2016). Pro-JNU Statement Spawns Petition For Ouster Of Sheldon Pollock As Editor Of Murty Classical Library. Huffington Post India. URL: http://www.huffingtonpost.in/2016/03/01/sheldon-pollock-murty-lib_n_9345928.html [3] ET Bureau (February 29 2016). JNU fallout: Petition wants Murty Classical Library to remove editor. Economic Times. URL: http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/articleshow/51186110.cms [4] Anushree Majumdar (February 29 2016). Murty library editor: Petition wants US scholar removed, cites JNU remarks. Indian Express. URL: http://indianexpress.com/article/india/india-news-india/murty-library-editor-petition-wants-us-scholar-removed-cites-jnu-remarks/ Thanks, Nityanand On Feb 29, 2016 4:13 PM, "Artur Karp" wrote: > > Professor S.D. Joshi was in the audience and wanted to make a comment > > that disagreed with Pata?jali's views. The Pandits told him that he > could > > not participate in the discussion, unless he first accepted the supreme > > authority of Pata?jali. > > I have met (where?) some time ago with a peculiar definition of Sanskrit. > According to it Sanskrit is Amrita. Not "*is like* Amrita", it *is* > Amrita. > > Would anyone in their sound mind want to change the composition of the > drink of immortality? > > Regards, > > Artur Karp > > Warsaw, Poland > > 2016-02-28 15:01 GMT+01:00 Madhav Deshpande : > >> Dear Colleagues, >> >> I could not agree more with Dr. Nityananda Misra's concluding statement: "As >> I see it, both petitions are rooted more in strong differences of >> opinion/ideology than in misunderstanding or wilful misconstrual/misrepresentation." >> This ideological divide is now at the boiling point, but the first time I >> came face to face with it was in 1965 in Pune. There was a Pandit Sabha in >> which some leading Pandits were discussing some grammatical point, citing >> the authority of Pata?jali. My teacher, Professor S.D. Joshi was in the >> audience and wanted to make a comment that disagreed with Pata?jali's >> views. The Pandits told him that he could not participate in the >> discussion, unless he first accepted the supreme authority of Pata?jali. >> Professor Joshi sat down, without being allowed to speak at this event. I >> don't know where the current "Battle for Sanskrit" will end up, but it >> clearly has very deep roots. >> >> Madhav Deshpande >> >> On Sun, Feb 28, 2016 at 6:41 AM, Nityanand Misra >> wrote: >> >>> >>> >>> On 27 February 2016 at 21:22, Dominik Wujastyk >>> wrote: >>> >>>> I discovered yesterday that there exists a petition >>>> >>>> launched by Prof. K. Ramasubramanian that asks for Prof. Sheldon Pollock to >>>> be removed from his editorial leadership role with the Murty Library. >>>> >>>> >>> Dear list members >>> >>> It is the season of petitions and statements! Adding some more details >>> before my comments: >>> >>> 1) While the petition of change.org has been started by Prof. K >>> Ramasubramanian, as many as 131 Indian intellectuals apart from Prof. K >>> Ramasubramanian signed the original plea to Mr. Narayana Murthy and Mr. >>> Rohan Murthy. I do not know if it was covered in a mainstream media source, >>> the much less-known newsgram.com carried it: >>> http://www.newsgram.com/132-indian-academicians-call-for-removal-of-sheldon-pollock-as-general-editor-of-murthy-classical-library/ >>> I personally know and have met with many scholars on the list: and some >>> of them are very well respected in India, in addition to being well-known. >>> Prof. Ramasubramanian himself is a recipient of the Badarayan Vyas Samman. >>> >>> 2) Apart from the aspects highlighted in Dr. Wujastyk's email, two other >>> aspects which are very relevant to this petition: the letter by the >>> academicians mentions Mr. Rajiv Malhotra's *Battle of Sanskrit* as well >>> as Prof. Pollock's recent signing of the solidarity statement with the >>> ?students, faculty, and staff of JNU?: the petition against Prof. Pollock >>> may well be a reaction to this. On the first aspect: Recently, Mr. Rajiv >>> Malhotra's book has been widely discussed in Indian universities of late. >>> Mr. Malhotra has been hosted by several Indian universities and institutes >>> (e.g. Karnataka Sanskrit University and TISS) for talks where he has >>> received both support and opposition, but more support than opposition as >>> far as I can say. On the second aspect, there was a discussion on the *Bh?rat?yavidvatpari?at >>> *mailing list (Mr. Rajiv Malhotra recently joined this mailing list). >>> The thread was started by me, and I remarked in my short initial post >>> ?Before the Indian courts decide, 455 academicians have already reached a >>> decision.? The discussion can be read here: >>> https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/bvparishat/cTgsJDKjA8I >>> >>> My quick comments: >>> If it can be argued that the petition against Prof. Pollock is based on >>> ?misunderstanding? or ?wilful misconstrual? (as members on this list have >>> described), then it can also be argued that the solidarity statement (to >>> which Prof. Pollock is a signatory) on the JNU issue is based on a ?lack of >>> understanding? of jurisprudence in India or ?wilful misrepresentation? of >>> facts. On jurisprudence: The Delhi Police has the documentary (video tapes) >>> and non-documentary (eye-witnesses) evidence, and the Indian courts will >>> examine the evidence and rule on the matter: then in what capacity does the >>> solidarity statement declare thrice that the police action on JNU was >>> ?illegal?. On misrepresentation, the solidarity statement misses that fact >>> that a large section of JNU students and teachers did support the police >>> action on JNU. This was also covered in the news: >>> http://www.newindianexpress.com/nation/180-JNU-Teachers-Take-the-Sarkari-Side-Demand-Action-Against-Students/2016/02/16/article3280826.ece >>> >>> As I see it, both petitions are rooted more in strong differences of >>> opinion/ideology than in misunderstanding or wilful >>> misconstrual/misrepresentation. >>> >>> Thanks, Nityanand >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> INDOLOGY mailing list >>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info >>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing >>> committee) >>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options >>> or unsubscribe) >>> >> >> >> >> -- >> Madhav M. Deshpande >> Professor of Sanskrit and Linguistics >> Department of Asian Languages and Cultures >> 202 South Thayer Street, Suite 6111 >> The University of Michigan >> Ann Arbor, MI 48104-1608, USA >> >> _______________________________________________ >> INDOLOGY mailing list >> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info >> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing >> committee) >> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or >> unsubscribe) >> > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From slaje at kabelmail.de Tue Mar 1 08:01:59 2016 From: slaje at kabelmail.de (Walter Slaje) Date: Tue, 01 Mar 16 09:01:59 +0100 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Against the petition against Prof. Pollock Message-ID: ? ? Dear List, > > > > it might be of some relevance to the community of Indologists that among > the prominent signatories of the Pollock removal petition Prof. V. > Kutumba Sastry ranks fifth on top of the list: > > > > > https://www.change.org/p/mr-n-r-narayana-murthy-and-mr-rohan-narayan-murty-removal-of-prof-sheldon-pollock-as-mentor-and-chief-editor-of-murty-classical-library > > > > That Prof. Kutumba Sastry signed this petition in his capacity of the ?President, > International Association of Sanskrit Studies? (IASS), has meanwhile > attracted the attention of also the media, who specifically single out his > name and function: > > > http://indianexpress.com/article/india/india-news-india/murty-library-editor-petition-wants-us-scholar-removed-cites-jnu-remarks/ > > > http://www.huffingtonpost.in/2016/03/01/sheldon-pollock-murty-lib_n_9345928.html > > > > In terms of Indological research, it is perhaps of no little significance > that the President of the IASS - a leading organization carrying > ?International? as part of their name and arranging the "World Sanskrit > Conference" on a regular basis - publicly supports the text of the debated > petition in full and demands, among others, ?Make in India? ethics and > ?Swadeshi Indology? in contexts of research and academic publications > guidelines. Trying to be ?international? and ?swadeshi? at the same time > clearly equals a contradiction in terms. > > > > The IASS ought to state their position in this matter by clarifying if, in > promoting nationalist ideas of Indological research, their president is > acting on their behalf: > > http://www.sanskritassociation.org/board-members.php > > > > Thanks and regards, > > WS > ----------------------------- Prof. Dr. Walter Slaje Hermann-L?ns-Str. 1 D-99425 Weimar Deutschland Ego ex animi mei sententia spondeo ac polliceor studia humanitatis impigro labore culturum et provecturum non sordidi lucri causa nec ad vanam captandam gloriam, sed quo magis veritas propagetur et lux eius, qua salus humani generis continetur, clarius effulgeat. Vindobonae, die XXI. mensis Novembris MCMLXXXIII. ? > ? > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From manufrancis at gmail.com Tue Mar 1 08:23:24 2016 From: manufrancis at gmail.com (Manu Francis) Date: Tue, 01 Mar 16 09:23:24 +0100 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Indian Furniture In-Reply-To: Message-ID: See also: La vie publique et prive?e dans l'Inde ancienne : (IIe sie?cle av. J.-C. - VIIIe sie?cle environ). Fascicule II, Le mobilier Auteur : Isabelle Gobert; Jeannine Auboyer; Muriel Thiriet ?diteur : Paris : Presses universitaires de France, 1976. Collection : Publications du Muse?e Guimet., Recherches et documents d'art et d'arche?ologie, Tome 6. -- Emmanuel Francis Charg? de recherche CNRS, Centre d'?tude de l'Inde et de l'Asie du Sud (UMR 8564, EHESS-CNRS, Paris) http://ceias.ehess.fr/ http://ceias.ehess.fr/index.php?1725 http://rcsi.hypotheses.org/ Associate member, Centre for the Study of Manuscript Culture (SFB 950, Universit?t Hamburg) http://www.manuscript-cultures.uni-hamburg.de/index_e.html https://cnrs.academia.edu/emmanuelfrancis 2016-03-01 2:57 GMT+01:00 Walser, Joseph : > > I am not sure if this is what you are after, but Jeannine Auboyer wrote a few things on thrones and chairs in ancient India. E.g. > Le tro?ne et son symbolisme dans l'Inde ancienne > by Jeannine AuboyerParis : Presses universitaires de France, 1949. > > Joseph Walser > > Associate Professor > > Department of Religion > > Tufts University > > ________________________________ > From: INDOLOGY [indology-bounces at list.indology.info] on behalf of Harry Spier [hspier.muktabodha at gmail.com] > Sent: Monday, February 29, 2016 7:31 PM > To: Indology > Subject: [INDOLOGY] Indian Furniture > > Dear list members, > > I'm looking for illustrations and plans of Indian Furniture. Are there any books on Indian Furniture (either of a particular place and time) or a historical overview. > > Thanks, > Harry Spier > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mail at caren-dreyer.de Tue Mar 1 08:30:45 2016 From: mail at caren-dreyer.de (Caren Dreyer) Date: Tue, 01 Mar 16 14:00:45 +0530 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Against the petition against Prof. Pollock In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <00E5A9A9-169C-40F1-8719-DDA02A1F4ED3@caren-dreyer.de> Sent from my phone. > On 01 Mar 2016, at 13:31, Walter Slaje wrote: > > ? ?Dear List, >> >> >> >> it might be of some relevance to the community of Indologists that among the prominent signatories of the Pollock removal petition Prof. V. Kutumba Sastry ranks fifth on top of the list: >> >> >> >> https://www.change.org/p/mr-n-r-narayana-murthy-and-mr-rohan-narayan-murty-removal-of-prof-sheldon-pollock-as-mentor-and-chief-editor-of-murty-classical-library >> >> >> >> That Prof. Kutumba Sastry signed this petition in his capacity of the ?President, International Association of Sanskrit Studies? (IASS), has meanwhile attracted the attention of also the media, who specifically single out his name and function: >> >> http://indianexpress.com/article/india/india-news-india/murty-library-editor-petition-wants-us-scholar-removed-cites-jnu-remarks/ >> >> http://www.huffingtonpost.in/2016/03/01/sheldon-pollock-murty-lib_n_9345928.html >> >> >> >> In terms of Indological research, it is perhaps of no little significance that the President of the IASS - a leading organization carrying ?International? as part of their name and arranging the "World Sanskrit Conference" on a regular basis - publicly supports the text of the debated petition in full and demands, among others, ?Make in India? ethics and ?Swadeshi Indology? in contexts of research and academic publications guidelines. Trying to be ?international? and ?swadeshi? at the same time clearly equals a contradiction in terms. >> >> >> >> The IASS ought to state their position in this matter by clarifying if, in promoting nationalist ideas of Indological research, their president is acting on their behalf: >> >> http://www.sanskritassociation.org/board-members.php >> >> >> >> Thanks and regards, >> >> WS >> > > > ----------------------------- > Prof. Dr. Walter Slaje > Hermann-L?ns-Str. 1 > D-99425 Weimar > Deutschland > > Ego ex animi mei sententia spondeo ac polliceor > studia humanitatis impigro labore culturum et provecturum > non sordidi lucri causa nec ad vanam captandam gloriam, > sed quo magis veritas propagetur et lux eius, qua salus > humani generis continetur, clarius effulgeat. > Vindobonae, die XXI. mensis Novembris MCMLXXXIII. ? >> ? > > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mail at caren-dreyer.de Tue Mar 1 08:34:04 2016 From: mail at caren-dreyer.de (Caren Dreyer) Date: Tue, 01 Mar 16 14:04:04 +0530 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Against the petition against Prof. Pollock In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <80FCC0AA-9943-4184-8333-B309B4017E01@caren-dreyer.de> Dear all, isnt it time for an alphabetical blacklist to be regularly updated in order not to invite the wrong persons financed by public funds caren dreyer Sent from my phone. > On 01 Mar 2016, at 13:31, Walter Slaje wrote: > > ? ?Dear List, >> >> >> >> it might be of some relevance to the community of Indologists that among the prominent signatories of the Pollock removal petition Prof. V. Kutumba Sastry ranks fifth on top of the list: >> >> >> >> https://www.change.org/p/mr-n-r-narayana-murthy-and-mr-rohan-narayan-murty-removal-of-prof-sheldon-pollock-as-mentor-and-chief-editor-of-murty-classical-library >> >> >> >> That Prof. Kutumba Sastry signed this petition in his capacity of the ?President, International Association of Sanskrit Studies? (IASS), has meanwhile attracted the attention of also the media, who specifically single out his name and function: >> >> http://indianexpress.com/article/india/india-news-india/murty-library-editor-petition-wants-us-scholar-removed-cites-jnu-remarks/ >> >> http://www.huffingtonpost.in/2016/03/01/sheldon-pollock-murty-lib_n_9345928.html >> >> >> >> In terms of Indological research, it is perhaps of no little significance that the President of the IASS - a leading organization carrying ?International? as part of their name and arranging the "World Sanskrit Conference" on a regular basis - publicly supports the text of the debated petition in full and demands, among others, ?Make in India? ethics and ?Swadeshi Indology? in contexts of research and academic publications guidelines. Trying to be ?international? and ?swadeshi? at the same time clearly equals a contradiction in terms. >> >> >> >> The IASS ought to state their position in this matter by clarifying if, in promoting nationalist ideas of Indological research, their president is acting on their behalf: >> >> http://www.sanskritassociation.org/board-members.php >> >> >> >> Thanks and regards, >> >> WS >> > > > ----------------------------- > Prof. Dr. Walter Slaje > Hermann-L?ns-Str. 1 > D-99425 Weimar > Deutschland > > Ego ex animi mei sententia spondeo ac polliceor > studia humanitatis impigro labore culturum et provecturum > non sordidi lucri causa nec ad vanam captandam gloriam, > sed quo magis veritas propagetur et lux eius, qua salus > humani generis continetur, clarius effulgeat. > Vindobonae, die XXI. mensis Novembris MCMLXXXIII. ? >> ? > > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From H.J.H.Tieken at hum.leidenuniv.nl Tue Mar 1 08:54:30 2016 From: H.J.H.Tieken at hum.leidenuniv.nl (Tieken, H.J.H.) Date: Tue, 01 Mar 16 08:54:30 +0000 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Indian Furniture In-Reply-To: Message-ID: For the colonial period: A. Jaffer, Furniture from British India and Ceylon. London 2001. I found the reference in a beautiful book written on the occasion of an exhibition in the Gemeentemuseum in The Hague: Wonen op de Kaap en in Batavia 1602-1795. Zwolle: Waanders Uitgevers, Den Haag: Gemeentemuseum (no year). The book contains contributions from various authors. In the bibliography many publications dealing with individual pieces of "oriental" (Dutch Indies, Malay, etc.) furniture, but also what seem to be more general studies, like the one by Jaffer mentioned above, A. Christie, "Der Mittlere Osten, Indien und Sudostasien", in: H. Haywoord (ed.), Mobel: eine Stilgeschichte durch vier Jahrtausende. Wiesbaden 1965: 312-15 (apparently a very short article) and J Veenendaal, Furniture from Indonesia, Sri Lanka and India during the Dutch Period. Delft 1985. Herman Tieken Herman Tieken Stationsweg 58 2515 BP Den Haag The Netherlands 00 31 (0)70 2208127 website: hermantieken.com ________________________________ Van: INDOLOGY [indology-bounces at list.indology.info] namens Manu Francis [manufrancis at gmail.com] Verzonden: dinsdag 1 maart 2016 9:23 Aan: Walser, Joseph CC: Indology Onderwerp: Re: [INDOLOGY] Indian Furniture See also: La vie publique et prive?e dans l'Inde ancienne : (IIe sie?cle av. J.-C. - VIIIe sie?cle environ). Fascicule II, Le mobilier Auteur : Isabelle Gobert; Jeannine Auboyer; Muriel Thiriet ?diteur : Paris : Presses universitaires de France, 1976. Collection : Publications du Muse?e Guimet., Recherches et documents d'art et d'arche?ologie, Tome 6. -- Emmanuel Francis Charg? de recherche CNRS, Centre d'?tude de l'Inde et de l'Asie du Sud (UMR 8564, EHESS-CNRS, Paris) http://ceias.ehess.fr/ http://ceias.ehess.fr/index.php?1725 http://rcsi.hypotheses.org/ Associate member, Centre for the Study of Manuscript Culture (SFB 950, Universit?t Hamburg) http://www.manuscript-cultures.uni-hamburg.de/index_e.html https://cnrs.academia.edu/emmanuelfrancis 2016-03-01 2:57 GMT+01:00 Walser, Joseph >: > > I am not sure if this is what you are after, but Jeannine Auboyer wrote a few things on thrones and chairs in ancient India. E.g. > Le tro?ne et son symbolisme dans l'Inde ancienne > by Jeannine AuboyerParis : Presses universitaires de France, 1949. > > Joseph Walser > > Associate Professor > > Department of Religion > > Tufts University > > ________________________________ > From: INDOLOGY [indology-bounces at list.indology.info] on behalf of Harry Spier [hspier.muktabodha at gmail.com] > Sent: Monday, February 29, 2016 7:31 PM > To: Indology > Subject: [INDOLOGY] Indian Furniture > > Dear list members, > > I'm looking for illustrations and plans of Indian Furniture. Are there any books on Indian Furniture (either of a particular place and time) or a historical overview. > > Thanks, > Harry Spier > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From nmisra at gmail.com Tue Mar 1 10:17:41 2016 From: nmisra at gmail.com (Nityanand Misra) Date: Tue, 01 Mar 16 15:47:41 +0530 Subject: [INDOLOGY] MCLI / Pollock Petition In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Dear list, While Niti Central (which recently shut down) and Swarajya are certainly pro-right/conservative magazines (just like The Hindu is left-leaning/liberal), but to describe them as ?propaganda? would be an exaggeration, just like calling The Hindu as ?communist? or ?Chinese mouthpiece? would be (in fact, the Friends of Tibet society actually calls The Hindu ?a mouthpiece of the Chinese communist party?, this was covered by Pradip Ninan Thomas in his book ?Negotiating Communication Rights: Case Studies from India?). In a recent article, the Financial Times described the Swarajya magazine as ?conservative?.[1] Even Sreenivasan Jain, a journalist with the NDTV (whose political leaning are no secret), described the Niti Central as a ?right-wing site? in an article in 2013.[2] As for Mr. Rajiv Malhotra?s latest book, it has already received attention in India, in both the academic sphere and outside, way beyond websites like Niti Central and Swarajya. I shared a link to the review of the book by Bibek Debroy in the moderate/centrist OPEN Magazine. The book carries a quote by Prof. Arvind Sharma (Birks Professor of Comparative Religion, McGill University) on its front cover. It has earned praise from Mahamahopadhyay Dayananda Bhargava (renowned Sanskrit scholar), S. R. Bhatt (Chairman of ICPR), K. Ramasubramanian (Sanskrit scholar and signatory #1 on the MCLI petition), Roddam Narasimha (aerospace scientist), and Dilip Chakrabarti (Professor Emeritus, Cambridge) among others. Some leading educational institutes in India which have hosted Mr Malhotra since January include the JNU, Ramakrishna Mission (Chennai), Vedic Gurukulam (Bidadi), Art of Living Ashram (Bangalore), Chinmaya Mission, IIT Bombay, TISS, IIT Madras, and Karnataka Sanskrit University. As for attention outside the world of scholars, Mr. Malhotra's book was launched by very well-known personalities: Subhash Chandra (Chairman of the pro-right Zee Media) in Mumbai, Sri Sri Ravi Shankar (eminent spiritual leader and humanitarian) in Bengaluru, and Dr. Najma Akbarali Heptulla (Minority Affairs Minister, Government of India) in Delhi. Prominent journalists and authors who have discussed his book include Madhu Kishwar (pro-right academic and author), Amish Tripathi (best-selling author), and T. V. Mohandas Pai (Chairman, Manipal Global Education). I need not add that the book is selling well (it is a category bestseller on Amazon India) and Harper Collins would be happy with their investment. I doubt if all this attention can be ?staged? or ?managed?. There is an elephant in the room. Love him or hate him, Mr. Malhotra is becoming too notable to ignore. Regards, Nityanand [1] Amy Kazmim (February 21 2016) India divided over right to political freedom. Financial Times. [2] Sreenivasan Jain (June 29 2016). Response to Niti Central article on NDTV's Ishrat Jahan report. NDTV. On Mar 1, 2016 12:13 AM, "Ananya Vajpeyi" wrote: > > Dear Colleagues, > > As many on this list including Dominik Wujastyk, Matthew Kapstein, Madhav > Deshpande and Tyler Williams, among others, have pointed out, the petition > to remove Professor Pollock from the General Editorship of the Murty > Classical Library of India suffers from either a deliberate or a genuine > misreading of his writings and lectures. Moreover it is motivated not just > by his vocal stand in favour of the freedom of expression and the right to > dissent in India and elsewhere reiterated numerous times of late, but also > by a desire on the part of the sponsors and writers of this petition to > generate some sliver of scholarly attention for Rajiv Malhotra's new book, > The Battle for Sanskrit. > > Apart from being a plagiarist, Malhotra is no scholar of anything, least > of all Indology or Sanskrit. (I'm not even sure if any book by him can be > accurately described as "new", given his record of plagiarism). His entire > strategy of calling attention to his publications, such as they are, is to > make ad hominem attacks on bona fide scholars, especially Professor > Pollock, and now almost exclusively him (though others of us have been > collateral damage in the past). > > In my view, Malhotra's latest book deserves not one minute of our time, > and is best left to rightwing propaganda publications like Swarajya, Niti > Central and other blogs, newspapers etc. of that ilk to review (or not). > It's an echo chamber of Hindutva paranoia and self-congratulation, > untouched by scholarship. Why spoil their party? > > As for the 10,000 signatures on the petition, these things are easily > managed by the cyber-machinery of the Sangh Parivar. Not for nothing are > there entire dedicated cells of trolls and bots whose job it is to swell > the numbers, as it were, merely the digital reflection of a larger ideology > of majoritarianism at work. > > I am assured by the concerned editors at Harvard University Press and by > Professor Pollock himself that HUP and Harvard's legal and PR departments > are well placed to handle this kind of -- well, whatever you want to call > it -- provocation, irritation, distraction, or incitement. We really need > not worry our heads engaging with these people as though they might > actually know something about the classics, of any language, whether of > early or modern South Asia. > > Goodness knows we all have enough on our plates, with JNU and other public > universities and their students across India in dire need of our material > and moral support at a moment of real political crisis. > > In solidarity, and urging us all to #StandwithJNU, > > Yours, > > Ananya Vajpeyi. > -- > > *Ananya Vajpeyi, PhD * > *Associate Fellow* > *Centre for the Study of Developing Societies* > *29 Rajpur Road, Civil Lines* > *New Delhi 110054* > *e: vajpeyi at csds.in * > *ext: 229* > > > *http://www.csds.in/faculty_ananya_vajpeyi.htm > * > > *http://www.hup.harvard.edu/catalog.php?isbn=9780674048959&content=book > * > > *http://www.carnegiecouncil.org/programs/gen/gefellows/current/ananya_vajpeyi.html > * > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing > committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or > unsubscribe) > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From vajpeyi at csds.in Tue Mar 1 16:00:07 2016 From: vajpeyi at csds.in (Ananya Vajpeyi) Date: Tue, 01 Mar 16 21:30:07 +0530 Subject: [INDOLOGY] MCLI / Pollock Petition In-Reply-To: Message-ID: It's possible that from some perspective (principally Malhotra's own), he is, as you so vividly put it "the elephant in the room". Alas there are no scholars of South Asian languages, history, texts, traditions or classics in that room to notice or ignore this elephant. As for Swarajya and Open and Bibek Debroy, you forget that unlike most people on this list I actually live in India. The political affiliations of the current owners and editors and contributors of these publications, and Mr. Debroy's closeness to the government and the Prime Minister, are not mysterious or hidden facts. I'm inclined to take such reviews with, how to put it, a pinch of saffron. I hadn't heard about Niti Central's closure. Thanks for that information. Goes to show that it wasn't really central enough for anyone to notice that it had gone out of business. The long list of event venues and sponsoring eminences you provide has no bearing on Malhotra's failure to explain his habits of plagiarizing, cannibalizing, distorting, misunderstanding and misrepresenting other people's scholarship, nor can they disguise the fact that like the Emperor who had no clothes, Rajiv Malhotra has no argument -- nothing of substance, nothing meaningful with which to entice the scholarly community into any kind of engagement with him. One can only hope that he derives some comfort from the manufactured consent and paid loyalty of the petition signatories in their thousands. Ananya Vajpeyi. On Tuesday, March 1, 2016, Nityanand Misra wrote: > Dear list, > > While Niti Central (which recently shut down) and Swarajya are certainly > pro-right/conservative magazines (just like The Hindu is > left-leaning/liberal), but to describe them as ?propaganda? would be an > exaggeration, just like calling The Hindu as ?communist? or ?Chinese > mouthpiece? would be (in fact, the Friends of Tibet society actually calls > The Hindu ?a mouthpiece of the Chinese communist party?, this was covered > by Pradip Ninan Thomas in his book ?Negotiating Communication Rights: Case > Studies from India?). In a recent article, the Financial Times described > the Swarajya magazine as ?conservative?.[1] Even Sreenivasan Jain, a > journalist with the NDTV (whose political leaning are no secret), described > the Niti Central as a ?right-wing site? in an article in 2013.[2] > > As for Mr. Rajiv Malhotra?s latest book, it has already received attention > in India, in both the academic sphere and outside, way beyond websites like > Niti Central and Swarajya. I shared a link to the review of the book by > Bibek Debroy in the moderate/centrist OPEN Magazine. The book carries a > quote by Prof. Arvind Sharma (Birks Professor of Comparative Religion, > McGill University) on its front cover. It has earned praise from > Mahamahopadhyay Dayananda Bhargava (renowned Sanskrit scholar), S. R. Bhatt > (Chairman of ICPR), K. Ramasubramanian (Sanskrit scholar and signatory #1 > on the MCLI petition), Roddam Narasimha (aerospace scientist), and Dilip > Chakrabarti (Professor Emeritus, Cambridge) among others. Some leading > educational institutes in India which have hosted Mr Malhotra since January > include the JNU, Ramakrishna Mission (Chennai), Vedic Gurukulam (Bidadi), > Art of Living Ashram (Bangalore), Chinmaya Mission, IIT Bombay, TISS, IIT > Madras, and Karnataka Sanskrit University. > > As for attention outside the world of scholars, Mr. Malhotra's book was > launched by very well-known personalities: Subhash Chandra (Chairman of the > pro-right Zee Media) in Mumbai, Sri Sri Ravi Shankar (eminent spiritual > leader and humanitarian) in Bengaluru, and Dr. Najma Akbarali Heptulla > (Minority Affairs Minister, Government of India) in Delhi. Prominent > journalists and authors who have discussed his book include Madhu Kishwar > (pro-right academic and author), Amish Tripathi (best-selling author), and > T. V. Mohandas Pai (Chairman, Manipal Global Education). > > I need not add that the book is selling well (it is a category bestseller > on Amazon India) and Harper Collins would be happy with their investment. > > I doubt if all this attention can be ?staged? or ?managed?. There is an > elephant in the room. Love him or hate him, Mr. Malhotra is becoming too > notable to ignore. > > Regards, Nityanand > > [1] Amy Kazmim (February 21 2016) India divided over right to political > freedom. Financial Times. > > [2] Sreenivasan Jain (June 29 2016). Response to Niti Central article on > NDTV's Ishrat Jahan report. NDTV. > On Mar 1, 2016 12:13 AM, "Ananya Vajpeyi" > wrote: > >> >> Dear Colleagues, >> >> As many on this list including Dominik Wujastyk, Matthew Kapstein, Madhav >> Deshpande and Tyler Williams, among others, have pointed out, the petition >> to remove Professor Pollock from the General Editorship of the Murty >> Classical Library of India suffers from either a deliberate or a genuine >> misreading of his writings and lectures. Moreover it is motivated not just >> by his vocal stand in favour of the freedom of expression and the right to >> dissent in India and elsewhere reiterated numerous times of late, but also >> by a desire on the part of the sponsors and writers of this petition to >> generate some sliver of scholarly attention for Rajiv Malhotra's new book, >> The Battle for Sanskrit. >> >> Apart from being a plagiarist, Malhotra is no scholar of anything, least >> of all Indology or Sanskrit. (I'm not even sure if any book by him can be >> accurately described as "new", given his record of plagiarism). His entire >> strategy of calling attention to his publications, such as they are, is to >> make ad hominem attacks on bona fide scholars, especially Professor >> Pollock, and now almost exclusively him (though others of us have been >> collateral damage in the past). >> >> In my view, Malhotra's latest book deserves not one minute of our time, >> and is best left to rightwing propaganda publications like Swarajya, Niti >> Central and other blogs, newspapers etc. of that ilk to review (or not). >> It's an echo chamber of Hindutva paranoia and self-congratulation, >> untouched by scholarship. Why spoil their party? >> >> As for the 10,000 signatures on the petition, these things are easily >> managed by the cyber-machinery of the Sangh Parivar. Not for nothing are >> there entire dedicated cells of trolls and bots whose job it is to swell >> the numbers, as it were, merely the digital reflection of a larger ideology >> of majoritarianism at work. >> >> I am assured by the concerned editors at Harvard University Press and by >> Professor Pollock himself that HUP and Harvard's legal and PR departments >> are well placed to handle this kind of -- well, whatever you want to call >> it -- provocation, irritation, distraction, or incitement. We really need >> not worry our heads engaging with these people as though they might >> actually know something about the classics, of any language, whether of >> early or modern South Asia. >> >> Goodness knows we all have enough on our plates, with JNU and other >> public universities and their students across India in dire need of our >> material and moral support at a moment of real political crisis. >> >> In solidarity, and urging us all to #StandwithJNU, >> >> Yours, >> >> Ananya Vajpeyi. >> -- >> >> *Ananya Vajpeyi, PhD * >> *Associate Fellow* >> *Centre for the Study of Developing Societies* >> *29 Rajpur Road, Civil Lines* >> *New Delhi 110054* >> *e: vajpeyi at csds.in * >> *ext: 229* >> >> >> *http://www.csds.in/faculty_ananya_vajpeyi.htm >> * >> >> *http://www.hup.harvard.edu/catalog.php?isbn=9780674048959&content=book >> * >> >> *http://www.carnegiecouncil.org/programs/gen/gefellows/current/ananya_vajpeyi.html >> * >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> INDOLOGY mailing list >> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info >> >> indology-owner at list.indology.info >> >> (messages to the list's managing committee) >> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or >> unsubscribe) >> > -- *Ananya Vajpeyi, PhD * *Associate Fellow* *Centre for the Study of Developing Societies* *29 Rajpur Road, Civil Lines* *New Delhi 110054* *e: vajpeyi at csds.in * *ext: 229* *http://www.csds.in/faculty_ananya_vajpeyi.htm * *http://www.hup.harvard.edu/catalog.php?isbn=9780674048959&content=book * *http://www.carnegiecouncil.org/programs/gen/gefellows/current/ananya_vajpeyi.html * -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From nagarajpaturi at gmail.com Tue Mar 1 19:09:43 2016 From: nagarajpaturi at gmail.com (Nagaraj Paturi) Date: Wed, 02 Mar 16 00:39:43 +0530 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Sanskrit studies Deromanticization Message-ID: In an earlier post of mine on Prof. Pollock's 2012 lecture, I said I would make a separate post on deexoticization. Here it is: 1. Dealing with the classics of a community which has living practitioners of various aspects of culture such as the religion contained in those classics, is different from dealing with the classics of a community which no longer has living practitioners of the religion and other such aspects in those classics. Availability of these living practitioners is both a problem and an opportunity. Problem because the practitioners react/respond to what has been said about what they live, in the study of the classics that contain the aspects that they put in practice; opportunity because the student of the classics can take the help of study of the practice in understanding the classics. 2. What Prof. Ingalls did to Sanskrit studies, in the form of exposing, criticizing and countering the ?monstrous? (-not my word-) Eurocentric study of Sanskrit material, was very much similar to what cultural relativists did to the study of various world cultures. He made Sanskritists aware of the cultural sensitivity keeping in view the sensibilities of the culture insiders. Cultural relativists evaluate the validity of their study by taking back their study to the studied people and testing it for cultural sensitivity. 3. Deromanticization, i.e., undoing of the romanticized presentation of the ?positive? of a culture studied need not necessarily be in the form of the other extreme, the romanticized presentation of the ?negative? of the studied culture. When I go to fieldwork in Indian villages, the villagers keep asking me, ?Are you going to present the same old feudal time picture of our villages that the movie guys present, a cruel landlord replacing the bullocks of a cart with the agricultural laborers and whipping them to bleed and so on?? It is heartening to see that there are still a very big number of Sanskrit scholars in US, who still live the sensitivity encouraged by likes of Prof. Ingalls. Though uneventful journeys do not get reported as news, they are the ones passengers love! Thanks and regards, -N -- Nagaraj Paturi Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA. Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of Liberal Education, (Pune, Maharashtra, INDIA ) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From alessandro.battistini at uniroma1.it Tue Mar 1 23:33:34 2016 From: alessandro.battistini at uniroma1.it (Alessandro Battistini) Date: Wed, 02 Mar 16 00:33:34 +0100 Subject: [INDOLOGY] unidentified south east asian/indic scripts Message-ID: Dear Members, I am posting this query to help a private collector. This golden medallion comes from Pyu (ancient Burma). Is anyone able to provide some insights on the two scripts involved? Unfortunately, I am not able to give more infos, but the Buddhist theme of the engraving is rather certain. Herewith the link to the images. Thank you! https://www.dropbox.com/sh/yz5b6zidj0rtews/AAByrCntE8H9If_2nelYS6KOa?dl=0 Alessandro Battistini PhD Candidate Sapienza Universit? di Roma -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From arlogriffiths at hotmail.com Wed Mar 2 11:41:53 2016 From: arlogriffiths at hotmail.com (Arlo Griffiths) Date: Wed, 02 Mar 16 11:41:53 +0000 Subject: [INDOLOGY] unidentified south east asian/indic scripts In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Dear Alessandro, I believe I was shown the same by Terry Tan in Yangon in 2014. It is without any doubt a forgery. (And there are many forged 'Pyu' artefacts around.) I have the impression that some copy of ye dhamm? verse has served as vague model for the face with 6 lines. Best, Arlo Griffiths ?cole fran?aise d'Extr?me-Orient Date: Wed, 2 Mar 2016 00:33:34 +0100 From: alessandro.battistini at uniroma1.it To: indology at list.indology.info Subject: [INDOLOGY] unidentified south east asian/indic scripts Dear Members, I am posting this query to help a private collector. This golden medallion comes from Pyu (ancient Burma). Is anyone able to provide some insights on the two scripts involved? Unfortunately, I am not able to give more infos, but the Buddhist theme of the engraving is rather certain. Herewith the link to the images. Thank you! https://www.dropbox.com/sh/yz5b6zidj0rtews/AAByrCntE8H9If_2nelYS6KOa?dl=0 Alessandro BattistiniPhD CandidateSapienza Universit? di Roma _______________________________________________ INDOLOGY mailing list INDOLOGY at list.indology.info indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From adheesh1 at gmail.com Wed Mar 2 18:35:07 2016 From: adheesh1 at gmail.com (Adheesh Sathaye) Date: Wed, 02 Mar 16 10:35:07 -0800 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Reminder: "Digital Textualities in South Asia", March 4-5 Message-ID: <4C182444-1D3F-4E52-9F7A-6736DC146A1F@gmail.com> Dear Indologists, A reminder that the Digital Textualities in South Asia Symposium at UBC is just two days away! If you are interested in Digital Humanities, and how this field can be applied to the study of premodern South Asia, we would love to have you join us this Friday and Saturday at the Asian Centre at UBC, or online at dtsa.ubcsanskrit.ca. Full schedule and details can also be found at the symposium website. All best wishes, Adheesh ? Adheesh Sathaye University of British Columbia ???? Digital Textualities in South Asia: A Research Symposium at UBC March 4-5, 2016 Asian Centre, 1871 West Mall, UBC How might new technologies help us preserve and make better sense of the vast but vulnerable textual cultures of pre-digital South Asia? This research symposium at UBC will bring together leading international scholars who are actively adopting and developing digital technologies for the study of South Asian textual cultures, in order to share insights, tools, and techniques, to propose broader research questions, and to chart future directions for collaborative inquiry. The sessions will be live-streamed on the symposium website: dtsa.ubcsanskrit.ca, and you may send comments and feedback via the twitter hashtag, #dtsaUBC. Featured plenary speakers: Peter Robinson (University of Saskatchewan) ?As We May Read: Audiences, Authors and Editors in the Digital Age? Friday, March 4, 5-7PM, Open Reception at 4.30PM John L. Bryant (Hofstra University) ?Translation Is Revision: Imagining a Digital Tool for Editing Translation as a Fluid Text? Saturday, March 5, 2-4PM Symposium participants: Manan Ahmed (Columbia) [via live feed], Stefan Baums (LM?, Munich), Tim Bellefleur (UBC), Philipp Maas (Vienna), Andrew Ollett (Harvard), Wendy Phillips-Rodr?guez (UNAM, Mexico City), A. Sean Pue (Michigan State), Adheesh Sathaye (UBC), Dominik Wujastyk (Alberta) For a complete schedule, information on speakers, and live-streaming resources, please visit dtsa.ubcsanskrit.ca. All sessions are free and open to the general public. All posted times are Pacific Standard Time (UTC -8). Made possible through the generous support of the Social Sciences and Humanities Research Council of Canada, the UBC Faculty of Arts, the Departments of Asian Studies and English, Advanced Research Computing, the Museum of Anthropology, and the SFU/UBC Digital Salon. ???? -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: b914dedc28480052f8436598568219a9.pdf Type: application/pdf Size: 1431872 bytes Desc: not available URL: From witzel at fas.harvard.edu Thu Mar 3 00:29:28 2016 From: witzel at fas.harvard.edu (Michael Witzel) Date: Wed, 02 Mar 16 19:29:28 -0500 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Sanskrit Summer School @ Harvard Message-ID: Dear All, Just as for the past 25 years, we will offer a course "Beginning Sanskrit" in the Harvard Summer School: Seven-week session: June 18?August 6, 2016 (exam on August 12). Please let your colleagues and students know? Michael Witzel ============ > Michael Witzel > witzel at fas.harvard.edu > > Wales Prof. of Sanskrit, > Dept. of South Asian Studies, Harvard University > 1 Bow Street, > Cambridge MA 02138, USA > > phone: 1- 617 - 495 3295, fax 617 - 496 8571; > direct line: 617- 496 2990 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From hspier.muktabodha at gmail.com Thu Mar 3 02:13:21 2016 From: hspier.muktabodha at gmail.com (Harry Spier) Date: Wed, 02 Mar 16 21:13:21 -0500 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Indian Furniture In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Thank you to Herman Tieken, Emanuel Francis and Joseph Walser for there replies to my Indian Furniture question. Harry Spier On Tue, Mar 1, 2016 at 3:54 AM, Tieken, H.J.H. < H.J.H.Tieken at hum.leidenuniv.nl> wrote: > For the colonial period: A. Jaffer, Furniture from British India and > Ceylon. London 2001. > I found the reference in a beautiful book written on the occasion of an > exhibition in the Gemeentemuseum in The Hague: Wonen op de Kaap en in > Batavia 1602-1795. Zwolle: Waanders Uitgevers, Den Haag: Gemeentemuseum (no > year). The book contains contributions from various authors. In the > bibliography many publications dealing with individual pieces of "oriental" > (Dutch Indies, Malay, etc.) furniture, but also what seem to be more > general studies, like the one by Jaffer mentioned above, A. Christie, "Der > Mittlere Osten, Indien und Sudostasien", in: H. Haywoord (ed.), Mobel: eine > Stilgeschichte durch vier Jahrtausende. Wiesbaden 1965: 312-15 (apparently > a very short article) and J Veenendaal, Furniture from Indonesia, Sri Lanka > and India during the Dutch Period. Delft 1985. > Herman Tieken > > Herman Tieken > Stationsweg 58 > 2515 BP Den Haag > The Netherlands > 00 31 (0)70 2208127 > website: hermantieken.com > ------------------------------ > *Van:* INDOLOGY [indology-bounces at list.indology.info] namens Manu Francis > [manufrancis at gmail.com] > *Verzonden:* dinsdag 1 maart 2016 9:23 > *Aan:* Walser, Joseph > *CC:* Indology > *Onderwerp:* Re: [INDOLOGY] Indian Furniture > > See also: > > La vie publique et prive?e dans l'Inde ancienne : (IIe sie?cle av. J.-C. - > VIIIe sie?cle environ). Fascicule II, Le mobilier > Auteur : Isabelle Gobert; Jeannine Auboyer; Muriel Thiriet > ?diteur : Paris : Presses universitaires de France, 1976. > Collection : Publications du Muse?e Guimet., Recherches et documents d'art > et d'arche?ologie, Tome 6. > > -- > > Emmanuel Francis > Charg? de recherche CNRS, Centre d'?tude de l'Inde et de l'Asie du Sud > (UMR 8564, EHESS-CNRS, Paris) > http://ceias.ehess.fr/ > > http://ceias.ehess.fr/index.php?1725 > > http://rcsi.hypotheses.org/ > > Associate member, Centre for the Study of Manuscript Culture (SFB 950, > Universit?t Hamburg) > http://www.manuscript-cultures.uni-hamburg.de/index_e.html > > https://cnrs.academia.edu/emmanuelfrancis > > > 2016-03-01 2:57 GMT+01:00 Walser, Joseph > >: > > > > I am not sure if this is what you are after, but Jeannine Auboyer wrote > a few things on thrones and chairs in ancient India. E.g. > > Le tro?ne et son symbolisme dans l'Inde ancienne > > by Jeannine AuboyerParis : Presses universitaires de France, 1949. > > > > Joseph Walser > > > > Associate Professor > > > > Department of Religion > > > > Tufts University > > > > ________________________________ > > From: INDOLOGY [indology-bounces at list.indology.info > ] > on behalf of Harry Spier [hspier.muktabodha at gmail.com > > ] > > Sent: Monday, February 29, 2016 7:31 PM > > To: Indology > > Subject: [INDOLOGY] Indian Furniture > > > > Dear list members, > > > > I'm looking for illustrations and plans of Indian Furniture. Are there > any books on Indian Furniture (either of a particular place and time) or a > historical overview. > > > > Thanks, > > Harry Spier > > > > _______________________________________________ > > INDOLOGY mailing list > > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > > > indology-owner at list.indology.info > > (messages to the list's managing committee) > > http://listinfo.indology.info > > (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) > > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing > committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or > unsubscribe) > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From psdmccartney at gmail.com Thu Mar 3 02:49:52 2016 From: psdmccartney at gmail.com (patrick mccartney) Date: Thu, 03 Mar 16 13:19:52 +1030 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Total-am Message-ID: Dear Friends, I have made a short film titled: *Total-am* *Total-am* is about one afternoon that occurred during the 1-month I spent in the 'Sanskrit village' Jhiri in Madhya Pradesh in 2015. On a very hot, dry and windy 47c day we went to a neighbouring village to collect 300kgs of wheat. Some of the people in this other village also speak *some* Sanskrit. The focus of this film is to show how the Sanskrit '-am' particle is used to turn loan words from other languages into Sanskrit words. Hence the title of the film 'Total-am'. This film also shows how Sanskrit lives alongside other languages like Malvi, Hindi and English and the scenery of Rajgarh District. I have uploaded a link to my academia site: https://www.academia.edu/22718232/Total-am_Filmed_and_Produced_by_Patrick_McCartney But here is the direct link to youtube: https://youtu.be/7tAp8m9RHPU While it certainly won't get nominated for a BAFTA, nonetheless I hope you enjoy it. Best, Patrick McCartney -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jknutson at hawaii.edu Thu Mar 3 03:16:00 2016 From: jknutson at hawaii.edu (Jesse Knutson) Date: Wed, 02 Mar 16 17:16:00 -1000 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Total-am In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hilarious. ?Thanks for sharing. Best,J On Wed, Mar 2, 2016 at 4:49 PM, patrick mccartney wrote: > Dear Friends, > > > I have made a short film titled: *Total-am* > > > > *Total-am* is about one afternoon that occurred during the 1-month I > spent in the 'Sanskrit village' Jhiri in Madhya Pradesh in 2015. On a very > hot, dry and windy 47c day we went to a neighbouring village to collect > 300kgs of wheat. Some of the people in this other village also speak > *some* Sanskrit. The focus of this film is to show how the Sanskrit '-am' > particle is used to turn loan words from other languages into Sanskrit > words. Hence the title of the film 'Total-am'. This film also shows how > Sanskrit lives alongside other languages like Malvi, Hindi and English and > the scenery of Rajgarh District. > > > I have uploaded a link to my academia site: > > > > https://www.academia.edu/22718232/Total-am_Filmed_and_Produced_by_Patrick_McCartney > > > But here is the direct link to youtube: > > > https://youtu.be/7tAp8m9RHPU > > > While it certainly won't get nominated for a BAFTA, nonetheless I hope you > enjoy it. > > > Best, > > > Patrick McCartney > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing > committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or > unsubscribe) > -- Jesse Ross Knutson PhD Assistant Professor of Sanskrit and Bengali, Department of Indo-Pacific Languages and Literatures University of Hawai'i at M?noa 461 Spalding -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mmdesh at umich.edu Thu Mar 3 03:18:28 2016 From: mmdesh at umich.edu (Madhav Deshpande) Date: Wed, 02 Mar 16 22:18:28 -0500 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Total-am In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Reminds me of someone in Pune talking to a vegetable seller in Sanskrit: ?? ????????, ????? ????? The lady selling vegetables could make out ???? ??, "Give me vegetables", and probably thought the speaker was some South Indian fellow. Madhav Deshpande On Wed, Mar 2, 2016 at 9:49 PM, patrick mccartney wrote: > Dear Friends, > > > I have made a short film titled: *Total-am* > > > > *Total-am* is about one afternoon that occurred during the 1-month I > spent in the 'Sanskrit village' Jhiri in Madhya Pradesh in 2015. On a very > hot, dry and windy 47c day we went to a neighbouring village to collect > 300kgs of wheat. Some of the people in this other village also speak > *some* Sanskrit. The focus of this film is to show how the Sanskrit '-am' > particle is used to turn loan words from other languages into Sanskrit > words. Hence the title of the film 'Total-am'. This film also shows how > Sanskrit lives alongside other languages like Malvi, Hindi and English and > the scenery of Rajgarh District. > > > I have uploaded a link to my academia site: > > > > https://www.academia.edu/22718232/Total-am_Filmed_and_Produced_by_Patrick_McCartney > > > But here is the direct link to youtube: > > > https://youtu.be/7tAp8m9RHPU > > > While it certainly won't get nominated for a BAFTA, nonetheless I hope you > enjoy it. > > > Best, > > > Patrick McCartney > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing > committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or > unsubscribe) > -- Madhav M. Deshpande Professor of Sanskrit and Linguistics Department of Asian Languages and Cultures 202 South Thayer Street, Suite 6111 The University of Michigan Ann Arbor, MI 48104-1608, USA -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From vajpeyi at csds.in Thu Mar 3 03:22:42 2016 From: vajpeyi at csds.in (Ananya Vajpeyi) Date: Thu, 03 Mar 16 08:52:42 +0530 Subject: [INDOLOGY] MCLI / Pollock Message-ID: Attention, Colleagues on Indology: Rohan Murty, founder of the Murty Classical library of India, sets the record straight -- General Editor (and Founding Editor) Pollock to stay, and the MCLI to continue unhindered, as planned: http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/industry/services/education/rohan-murty-says-american-indologist-sheldon-pollock-to-stay/articleshow/51231553.cms A fitting rebuttal of the Hindu Right, and a tribute to Sheldon Pollock, by his student, colleague and Columbia University historian by Manan Ahmed: http://www.chapatimystery.com/archives/homistan/why_sheldon_pollock.html And a counter-petition by a different group of scholars: https://www.change.org/p/mr-rohan-narayan-murty-rebuttal-to-removal-of-sheldon-pollock-as-mentor-chief-editor-of-murty-classical-library Additional coverage of this issue may be found in The Washington Post, The Wire.in, The Telegraph Calcutta, The Indian Express, Scroll.in, and a number of other publications. AV. -- *Ananya Vajpeyi, PhD * *Associate Fellow* *Centre for the Study of Developing Societies* *29 Rajpur Road, Civil Lines* *New Delhi 110054* *e: vajpeyi at csds.in * *ext: 229* *http://www.csds.in/faculty_ananya_vajpeyi.htm * *http://www.hup.harvard.edu/catalog.php?isbn=9780674048959&content=book * *http://www.carnegiecouncil.org/programs/gen/gefellows/current/ananya_vajpeyi.html * -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From nmisra at gmail.com Thu Mar 3 03:40:17 2016 From: nmisra at gmail.com (Nityanand Misra) Date: Thu, 03 Mar 16 09:10:17 +0530 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Against the petition against Prof. Pollock In-Reply-To: <80FCC0AA-9943-4184-8333-B309B4017E01@caren-dreyer.de> Message-ID: Dear list members Late last night, Mr. Rohan Murty stated to the Economic Times that Prof. Sheldon Pollock will stay on the board of MCLI for ?many years to come?.[1] With this, the short-lived controversy is over and the chapter is closed, and it is time for everybody to move on. While I do not personally agree with one statement of Mr. Murty ("there aren't more scholars in India capable of carrying out such translations from ancient literature"), I respect his decision and am nobody to question it. Mr. Murty's comments should be read by all petitioners, they can learn a lesson or two from them. Concidentally, yesterday evening Justice Pratibha Rani granted a six-month interim bail to JNU student Kanhaiya Kumar with some conditions (he will not participate actively or passively in ... and make all efforts within his power to control ... anti-national activities).[2] The full judgement of Pratibha Rani should likewise be read by all those who signed the solidarity statement on JNU, they can learn a lesson or two from it. [1] Divya Shekhar and Indulekha Aravind (March 3 2016), Rohan Murty says American Indologist Sheldon Pollock to stay, Economic Times, URL: http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/articleshow/51231553.cms [2] Justice Praibha Rani (March 2 2016), Kanhaiya Kumar versus the State of NCT of Delhi, Delhi High Coury, URL: http://lobis.nic.in/ddir/dhc/PRA/judgement/02-03-2016/PRA02032016CRLW5582016.pdf On Mar 1, 2016 2:04 PM, "Caren Dreyer" wrote: > Dear all, isnt it time for an alphabetical blacklist to be regularly > updated in order not to invite the wrong persons financed by public funds > caren dreyer > > Sent from my phone. > > On 01 Mar 2016, at 13:31, Walter Slaje wrote: > > ? ? > Dear List, >> >> >> >> it might be of some relevance to the community of Indologists that among >> the prominent signatories of the Pollock removal petition Prof. V. >> Kutumba Sastry ranks fifth on top of the list: >> >> >> >> >> https://www.change.org/p/mr-n-r-narayana-murthy-and-mr-rohan-narayan-murty-removal-of-prof-sheldon-pollock-as-mentor-and-chief-editor-of-murty-classical-library >> >> >> >> That Prof. Kutumba Sastry signed this petition in his capacity of the ?President, >> International Association of Sanskrit Studies? (IASS), has meanwhile >> attracted the attention of also the media, who specifically single out his >> name and function: >> >> >> http://indianexpress.com/article/india/india-news-india/murty-library-editor-petition-wants-us-scholar-removed-cites-jnu-remarks/ >> >> >> http://www.huffingtonpost.in/2016/03/01/sheldon-pollock-murty-lib_n_9345928.html >> >> >> >> In terms of Indological research, it is perhaps of no little significance >> that the President of the IASS - a leading organization carrying >> ?International? as part of their name and arranging the "World Sanskrit >> Conference" on a regular basis - publicly supports the text of the debated >> petition in full and demands, among others, ?Make in India? ethics and >> ?Swadeshi Indology? in contexts of research and academic publications >> guidelines. Trying to be ?international? and ?swadeshi? at the same time >> clearly equals a contradiction in terms. >> >> >> >> The IASS ought to state their position in this matter by clarifying if, >> in promoting nationalist ideas of Indological research, their president is >> acting on their behalf: >> >> http://www.sanskritassociation.org/board-members.php >> >> >> >> Thanks and regards, >> >> WS >> > > > ----------------------------- > Prof. Dr. Walter Slaje > Hermann-L?ns-Str. 1 > D-99425 Weimar > Deutschland > > Ego ex animi mei sententia spondeo ac polliceor > studia humanitatis impigro labore culturum et provecturum > non sordidi lucri causa nec ad vanam captandam gloriam, > sed quo magis veritas propagetur et lux eius, qua salus > humani generis continetur, clarius effulgeat. > Vindobonae, die XXI. mensis Novembris MCMLXXXIII. ? > >> ? >> > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing > committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or > unsubscribe) > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From shrivara at gmail.com Thu Mar 3 03:49:58 2016 From: shrivara at gmail.com (Shrinivasa Varakhedi) Date: Thu, 03 Mar 16 03:49:58 +0000 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Against the petition against Prof. Pollock In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Fully agreed with Sri Nityananda Mishra. For many days I developed a similar opinion. With this we should learn to be proactive. The idea of Dr. Sampadananda and others must be pondered over. See the following report in Wire. http://thewire.in/2016/03/02/what-the-petition-against-the-sanskritist-sheldon-pollock-is-really-about-23357/ On Thu, 3 Mar 2016 at 9:12 AM, Nityanand Misra wrote: > Dear list members > > Late last night, Mr. Rohan Murty stated to the Economic Times that Prof. > Sheldon Pollock will stay on the board of MCLI for ?many years to come?.[1] > With this, the short-lived controversy is over and the chapter is closed, > and it is time for everybody to move on. While I do not personally agree > with one statement of Mr. Murty ("there aren't more scholars in India > capable of carrying out such translations from ancient literature"), I > respect his decision and am nobody to question it. Mr. Murty's comments > should be read by all petitioners, they can learn a lesson or two from > them. > > Concidentally, yesterday evening Justice Pratibha Rani granted a six-month > interim bail to JNU student Kanhaiya Kumar with some conditions (he will > not participate actively or passively in ... and make all efforts within > his power to control ... anti-national activities).[2] The full judgement > of Pratibha Rani should likewise be read by all those who signed the > solidarity statement on JNU, they can learn a lesson or two from it. > > [1] Divya Shekhar and Indulekha Aravind (March 3 2016), Rohan Murty says > American Indologist Sheldon Pollock to stay, Economic Times, URL: > http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/articleshow/51231553.cms > > [2] Justice Praibha Rani (March 2 2016), Kanhaiya Kumar versus the State > of NCT of Delhi, Delhi High Coury, URL: > http://lobis.nic.in/ddir/dhc/PRA/judgement/02-03-2016/PRA02032016CRLW5582016.pdf > On Mar 1, 2016 2:04 PM, "Caren Dreyer" wrote: > >> Dear all, isnt it time for an alphabetical blacklist to be regularly >> updated in order not to invite the wrong persons financed by public funds >> caren dreyer >> >> Sent from my phone. >> >> On 01 Mar 2016, at 13:31, Walter Slaje wrote: >> >> ? ? >> Dear List, >>> >>> >>> >>> it might be of some relevance to the community of Indologists that among >>> the prominent signatories of the Pollock removal petition Prof. V. >>> Kutumba Sastry ranks fifth on top of the list: >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> https://www.change.org/p/mr-n-r-narayana-murthy-and-mr-rohan-narayan-murty-removal-of-prof-sheldon-pollock-as-mentor-and-chief-editor-of-murty-classical-library >>> >>> >>> >>> That Prof. Kutumba Sastry signed this petition in his capacity of the ?President, >>> International Association of Sanskrit Studies? (IASS), has meanwhile >>> attracted the attention of also the media, who specifically single out his >>> name and function: >>> >>> >>> http://indianexpress.com/article/india/india-news-india/murty-library-editor-petition-wants-us-scholar-removed-cites-jnu-remarks/ >>> >>> >>> http://www.huffingtonpost.in/2016/03/01/sheldon-pollock-murty-lib_n_9345928.html >>> >>> >>> >>> In terms of Indological research, it is perhaps of no little >>> significance that the President of the IASS - a leading organization >>> carrying ?International? as part of their name and arranging the "World >>> Sanskrit Conference" on a regular basis - publicly supports the text of the >>> debated petition in full and demands, among others, ?Make in India? ethics >>> and ?Swadeshi Indology? in contexts of research and academic publications >>> guidelines. Trying to be ?international? and ?swadeshi? at the same time >>> clearly equals a contradiction in terms. >>> >>> >>> >>> The IASS ought to state their position in this matter by clarifying if, >>> in promoting nationalist ideas of Indological research, their president is >>> acting on their behalf: >>> >>> http://www.sanskritassociation.org/board-members.php >>> >>> >>> >>> Thanks and regards, >>> >>> WS >>> >> >> >> ----------------------------- >> Prof. Dr. Walter Slaje >> Hermann-L?ns-Str. 1 >> D-99425 Weimar >> Deutschland >> >> Ego ex animi mei sententia spondeo ac polliceor >> studia humanitatis impigro labore culturum et provecturum >> non sordidi lucri causa nec ad vanam captandam gloriam, >> sed quo magis veritas propagetur et lux eius, qua salus >> humani generis continetur, clarius effulgeat. >> Vindobonae, die XXI. mensis Novembris MCMLXXXIII. ? >> >>> ? >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> INDOLOGY mailing list >> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info >> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing >> committee) >> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or >> unsubscribe) >> >> _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing > committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or > unsubscribe) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tylerwwilliams at gmail.com Thu Mar 3 06:00:27 2016 From: tylerwwilliams at gmail.com (Tyler Williams) Date: Thu, 03 Mar 16 00:00:27 -0600 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Against the petition against Prof. Pollock In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Dear colleagues, I must apologize in advance-- I would like to keep the discussion on a positive note, and concisely explore ways that we can continue to work together to not only protect intellectual freedoms but also to make the public more aware of the good work being done by Indian and non-Indian Indologists (many of you are already doing this important work that helps to avoid the kind of under-informed positions that are gaining currency). I also greatly appreciate the insights shared by Dominik, Ananya, Matthew, Anandavardhanan, Andrew and numerous others. Yet I find the suggestion that "The full judgement of Pratibha Rani should likewise be read by all those who signed the solidarity statement on JNU" because "they can learn a lesson or two from it," a bit troubling. I agree that we should all read the statement-- it is a clear marker of how imperiled free speech and intellectual freedom at Indian universities are at the present moment. However, the suggestion that scholars like Sheldon Pollock, myself, and many of you who signed the petition in support of JNU should 'learn' from Justice Rani's statement is deeply troubling. Among the many problematic things Justice Rani has written, the following stand out: 1. "The thoughts reflected in the slogans raised by some of the students of JNU who organized and participated in that programme cannot be claimed to be protected as fundamental right to freedom of speech and expression. I consider this as a kind of infection from which such students are suffering which needs to be controlled/cured before it becomes an epidemic." Neither does the Justice Rani specify exactly or convincingly what is 'anti-national' in the students' thought and speech, nor does she explain why it is anti-national. 2. "Suffice it to note that such persons enjoy the freedom to raise such slogans in the comfort of University Campus but without realising that they are in this safe environment because our forces are there at the battle field situated at the highest altitude of the world where even the oxygen is so scarce that those who are shouting anti-national slogans holding posters of Afzal Guru and Maqbool Bhatt close to their chest honoring their martyrdom, may not be even able to withstand those conditions for an hour even." This bizarrely-worded argument referencing Siachen glacier suggests that the exercise of military power ensures democracy, *not the actual exercise of democratic rights like the right to free speech.* 3. "Whenever some infection is spread in a limb, effort is made to cure the same by giving antibiotics orally and if that does not work, by following second line of treatment. Sometimes it may require surgical intervention also. However, if the infection results in infecting the limb to the extent that it becomes gangrene, amputation is the only treatment." This reference to the aforementioned 'epidemic' is a clear and chilling threat made to those who dare to question the government, echoing the language of fascist regimes and pogrom logic. 4. Justice Rani states that she grants bail to the jailed president of the JNU Students Union on the condition that "as President of JNU Students Union, he will make all efforts within his power to control anti-national activities in the campus" and elsewhere suggests that JNU faculty and administrators should curb anti-national thought on campus. This amounts to nothing less than an order to police thought on the university campus and a threat that failure to do so will result in the cancelation of bail. Since this email is already lengthy, I will simply invite colleagues to read the document, but do wish to register my serious concern that this appears to be a step backward, not forward, in securing intellectual and political freedoms in the academy. Let's please keep the conversation positive and moving forward, but we should also not let it go unremarked when it is suggested that we who have the temerity to speak up for academic freedom should 'learn from' repressive and totalitarian thought. Respectfully, Tyler Williams Assistant Professor University of Chicago On Wed, Mar 2, 2016 at 9:40 PM, Nityanand Misra wrote: > Dear list members > > Late last night, Mr. Rohan Murty stated to the Economic Times that Prof. > Sheldon Pollock will stay on the board of MCLI for ?many years to come?.[1] > With this, the short-lived controversy is over and the chapter is closed, > and it is time for everybody to move on. While I do not personally agree > with one statement of Mr. Murty ("there aren't more scholars in India > capable of carrying out such translations from ancient literature"), I > respect his decision and am nobody to question it. Mr. Murty's comments > should be read by all petitioners, they can learn a lesson or two from > them. > > Concidentally, yesterday evening Justice Pratibha Rani granted a six-month > interim bail to JNU student Kanhaiya Kumar with some conditions (he will > not participate actively or passively in ... and make all efforts within > his power to control ... anti-national activities).[2] The full judgement > of Pratibha Rani should likewise be read by all those who signed the > solidarity statement on JNU, they can learn a lesson or two from it. > > [1] Divya Shekhar and Indulekha Aravind (March 3 2016), Rohan Murty says > American Indologist Sheldon Pollock to stay, Economic Times, URL: > http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/articleshow/51231553.cms > > [2] Justice Praibha Rani (March 2 2016), Kanhaiya Kumar versus the State > of NCT of Delhi, Delhi High Coury, URL: > http://lobis.nic.in/ddir/dhc/PRA/judgement/02-03-2016/PRA02032016CRLW5582016.pdf > On Mar 1, 2016 2:04 PM, "Caren Dreyer" wrote: > >> Dear all, isnt it time for an alphabetical blacklist to be regularly >> updated in order not to invite the wrong persons financed by public funds >> caren dreyer >> >> Sent from my phone. >> >> On 01 Mar 2016, at 13:31, Walter Slaje wrote: >> >> ? ? >> Dear List, >>> >>> >>> >>> it might be of some relevance to the community of Indologists that among >>> the prominent signatories of the Pollock removal petition Prof. V. >>> Kutumba Sastry ranks fifth on top of the list: >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> https://www.change.org/p/mr-n-r-narayana-murthy-and-mr-rohan-narayan-murty-removal-of-prof-sheldon-pollock-as-mentor-and-chief-editor-of-murty-classical-library >>> >>> >>> >>> That Prof. Kutumba Sastry signed this petition in his capacity of the ?President, >>> International Association of Sanskrit Studies? (IASS), has meanwhile >>> attracted the attention of also the media, who specifically single out his >>> name and function: >>> >>> >>> http://indianexpress.com/article/india/india-news-india/murty-library-editor-petition-wants-us-scholar-removed-cites-jnu-remarks/ >>> >>> >>> http://www.huffingtonpost.in/2016/03/01/sheldon-pollock-murty-lib_n_9345928.html >>> >>> >>> >>> In terms of Indological research, it is perhaps of no little >>> significance that the President of the IASS - a leading organization >>> carrying ?International? as part of their name and arranging the "World >>> Sanskrit Conference" on a regular basis - publicly supports the text of the >>> debated petition in full and demands, among others, ?Make in India? ethics >>> and ?Swadeshi Indology? in contexts of research and academic publications >>> guidelines. Trying to be ?international? and ?swadeshi? at the same time >>> clearly equals a contradiction in terms. >>> >>> >>> >>> The IASS ought to state their position in this matter by clarifying if, >>> in promoting nationalist ideas of Indological research, their president is >>> acting on their behalf: >>> >>> http://www.sanskritassociation.org/board-members.php >>> >>> >>> >>> Thanks and regards, >>> >>> WS >>> >> >> >> ----------------------------- >> Prof. Dr. Walter Slaje >> Hermann-L?ns-Str. 1 >> D-99425 Weimar >> Deutschland >> >> Ego ex animi mei sententia spondeo ac polliceor >> studia humanitatis impigro labore culturum et provecturum >> non sordidi lucri causa nec ad vanam captandam gloriam, >> sed quo magis veritas propagetur et lux eius, qua salus >> humani generis continetur, clarius effulgeat. >> Vindobonae, die XXI. mensis Novembris MCMLXXXIII. ? >> >>> ? >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> INDOLOGY mailing list >> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info >> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing >> committee) >> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or >> unsubscribe) >> >> > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing > committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or > unsubscribe) > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From alex.watson at ashoka.edu.in Thu Mar 3 06:03:40 2016 From: alex.watson at ashoka.edu.in (Alex Watson) Date: Thu, 03 Mar 16 11:33:40 +0530 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Against the petition against Prof. Pollock Message-ID: An article on the JNU issue that makes use of the ??opani?ad: http://www.huffingtonpost.in/rana-dasgupta/antinational-slogans_b_9353016.html?utm_hp_ref=india Yours Alex -- Alex Watson Professor of Indian Philosophy Ashoka University *https://ashokauniversity.academia.edu/AlexWatson * -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From nmisra at gmail.com Thu Mar 3 11:02:49 2016 From: nmisra at gmail.com (Nityanand Misra) Date: Thu, 03 Mar 16 16:32:49 +0530 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Against the petition against Prof. Pollock In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Dear list Apropos Prof. Tyler Williams' first point, the judgement mentions on page 6 that there were thirty slogans quoted in pages 3 to 5 of the status report filed by the State. I do not have the status report, but Justice Rani mentions on page 11 of her judgement seven of these slogans, which I reproduce below along with my translations. The slogans eulogize Afzal Guru (convicted by Indian courts for plotting a terrorist attack on the Indian parliament), warn that India will be split into pieces, and call for achieving freedom by the use of guns. 1. AFZAL GURU MAQBOOL BHATT JINDABAD. English: Long live Afzal Guru and Maqbool Bhatt. 2. BHARAT KI BARBADI TAK JUNG RAHEGI JUNG RAHEGI English: The battle will go on and on till India is destroyed. 3. GO INDIA GO BACK English: No translation needed. 4. INDIAN ARMY MURDABAD English: Death to Indian Army. 5. BHARAT TERE TUKKDE HONGE? INSHAALLAHA INSHAALLAHA English: India, you will be split in pieces, Allah willing, Allah willing. 6. AFZAL KI HATYA NAHI SAHENGE NAHI SAHENGE English: We will not tolerate the murder of Afzal Guru. 7. BANDOOK KI DUM PE LENGE AAZADI. English: We will achieve freedom by the [use of] guns. The court ruling does not specify what exactly is anti-national here, but I think it is pretty obvious that glorification of the mastermind of the attack on Indian Parliament, calls for waging a battle till India is destroyed or achieving freedom by violence are anti-India. In India, freedom of speech and expression is not absolute. As per clause (2) of article 19 of the Indian Constitution (cited in Justice Rani's judgement), existing laws can operate and new laws can be made to place reasonable restrictions on the freedom of speech and expression ?in the interests of the sovereignty and integrity of India, the security of the State, friendly relations with foreign States, public order, decency or morality or in relation to contempt of court, defamation or incitement to an offence.? The slogans above need to be seen in this important context. Do they qualify as sedition? I think so, but the Indian courts will rule. We will need to see how they apply section 124A of the Indian Penal Code and the Supreme Court ruling in the case of Kedar Nath Singh vs State Of Bihar (1962 AIR 955, 1962 SCR Supl. 2 769) in this case. The 1962 ruling (available here: http://indiankanoon.org/doc/111867/) interpreted 124A to be applicable to activities involving ?incitement to violence or intention/tendency to create public disorder or disturbance of law and order/public peace.? I disagree with the observations made by Prof. Tyler Williams in his points (2) to (4), and especially the term repressive and totalitarian thought for a judgement by an Indian court. For point (2), I believe the point being made is that the Indian armed forces ensure a safe environment. The word democracy is not used by the Judge in the statement. For point (3), the previous paragraph is relevant: ?The thoughts reflected in the slogans raised by some of the students of JNU who organized and participated in that programme cannot be claimed to be protected as fundamental right to freedom of speech and expression. I consider this as a kind of infection from which such students are suffering which needs to be controlled/cured before it becomes an epidemic.? The judgement specifically refers to the thoughts reflected in some specific slogans on JNU as an ?infection? and not to any expression speech questioning the government. I do not think this is fascist language or pogrom logic. The Indian government is questioned every day in both the Lok Sabha and the Rajya Sabha the ongoing session of the parliament, and the court ruling certainly does not apply to this. For point (4), curbing of what the court calls anti-national activity is not the same as policing all thought on campus. Criticism of the elected government is not an anti-national activity, it happens all the time in India and nobody gets charged with sedition for the same. Thanks, Nityanand On Mar 3, 2016 11:30 AM, "Tyler Williams" wrote: > Dear colleagues, > > I must apologize in advance-- I would like to keep the discussion on a > positive note, and concisely explore ways that we can continue to work > together to not only protect intellectual freedoms but also to make the > public more aware of the good work being done by Indian and non-Indian > Indologists (many of you are already doing this important work that helps > to avoid the kind of under-informed positions that are gaining currency). > I also greatly appreciate the insights shared by Dominik, Ananya, Matthew, > Anandavardhanan, Andrew and numerous others. > > Yet I find the suggestion that "The full judgement of Pratibha Rani > should likewise be read by all those who signed the solidarity statement on > JNU" because "they can learn a lesson or two from it," a bit troubling. I > agree that we should all read the statement-- it is a clear marker of how > imperiled free speech and intellectual freedom at Indian universities are > at the present moment. However, the suggestion that scholars like Sheldon > Pollock, myself, and many of you who signed the petition in support of JNU > should 'learn' from Justice Rani's statement is deeply troubling. Among > the many problematic things Justice Rani has written, the following stand > out: > > 1. "The thoughts reflected in the slogans raised by some of the students > of JNU who organized and participated in that programme cannot be claimed > to be protected as fundamental right to freedom of speech and expression. I > consider this as a kind of infection from which such students are suffering > which needs to be controlled/cured before it becomes an epidemic." Neither > does the Justice Rani specify exactly or convincingly what is > 'anti-national' in the students' thought and speech, nor does she explain > why it is anti-national. > > 2. "Suffice it to note that such persons enjoy the freedom to raise such > slogans in the comfort of University Campus but without realising that they > are in this safe environment because our forces are there at the battle > field situated at the highest altitude of the world where even the oxygen > is so scarce that those who are shouting anti-national slogans holding > posters of Afzal Guru and Maqbool Bhatt close to their chest honoring their > martyrdom, may not be even able to withstand those conditions for an hour > even." This bizarrely-worded argument referencing Siachen glacier suggests > that the exercise of military power ensures democracy, *not the actual > exercise of democratic rights like the right to free speech.* > > 3. "Whenever some infection is spread in a limb, effort is made to cure > the same by giving antibiotics orally and if that does not work, by > following second line of treatment. Sometimes it may require surgical > intervention also. However, if the infection results in infecting the limb > to the extent that it becomes gangrene, amputation is the only treatment." > This reference to the aforementioned 'epidemic' is a clear and chilling > threat made to those who dare to question the government, echoing the > language of fascist regimes and pogrom logic. > > 4. Justice Rani states that she grants bail to the jailed president of the > JNU Students Union on the condition that "as President of JNU Students > Union, he will make all efforts within his power to control anti-national > activities in the campus" and elsewhere suggests that JNU faculty and > administrators should curb anti-national thought on campus. This amounts > to nothing less than an order to police thought on the university campus > and a threat that failure to do so will result in the cancelation of bail. > > Since this email is already lengthy, I will simply invite colleagues to > read the document, but do wish to register my serious concern that this > appears to be a step backward, not forward, in securing intellectual and > political freedoms in the academy. Let's please keep the conversation > positive and moving forward, but we should also not let it go unremarked > when it is suggested that we who have the temerity to speak up for academic > freedom should 'learn from' repressive and totalitarian thought. > > Respectfully, > > Tyler Williams > Assistant Professor > University of Chicago > > > > On Wed, Mar 2, 2016 at 9:40 PM, Nityanand Misra wrote: > >> Dear list members >> >> Late last night, Mr. Rohan Murty stated to the Economic Times that Prof. >> Sheldon Pollock will stay on the board of MCLI for ?many years to come?.[1] >> With this, the short-lived controversy is over and the chapter is closed, >> and it is time for everybody to move on. While I do not personally agree >> with one statement of Mr. Murty ("there aren't more scholars in India >> capable of carrying out such translations from ancient literature"), I >> respect his decision and am nobody to question it. Mr. Murty's comments >> should be read by all petitioners, they can learn a lesson or two from >> them. >> >> Concidentally, yesterday evening Justice Pratibha Rani granted a >> six-month interim bail to JNU student Kanhaiya Kumar with some conditions >> (he will not participate actively or passively in ... and make all efforts >> within his power to control ... anti-national activities).[2] The full >> judgement of Pratibha Rani should likewise be read by all those who signed >> the solidarity statement on JNU, they can learn a lesson or two from it. >> >> [1] Divya Shekhar and Indulekha Aravind (March 3 2016), Rohan Murty says >> American Indologist Sheldon Pollock to stay, Economic Times, URL: >> http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/articleshow/51231553.cms >> >> [2] Justice Praibha Rani (March 2 2016), Kanhaiya Kumar versus the State >> of NCT of Delhi, Delhi High Coury, URL: >> http://lobis.nic.in/ddir/dhc/PRA/judgement/02-03-2016/PRA02032016CRLW5582016.pdf >> On Mar 1, 2016 2:04 PM, "Caren Dreyer" wrote: >> >>> Dear all, isnt it time for an alphabetical blacklist to be regularly >>> updated in order not to invite the wrong persons financed by public funds >>> caren dreyer >>> >>> Sent from my phone. >>> >>> On 01 Mar 2016, at 13:31, Walter Slaje wrote: >>> >>> ? ? >>> Dear List, >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> it might be of some relevance to the community of Indologists that >>>> among the prominent signatories of the Pollock removal petition Prof. >>>> V. Kutumba Sastry ranks fifth on top of the list: >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> https://www.change.org/p/mr-n-r-narayana-murthy-and-mr-rohan-narayan-murty-removal-of-prof-sheldon-pollock-as-mentor-and-chief-editor-of-murty-classical-library >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> That Prof. Kutumba Sastry signed this petition in his capacity of the ?President, >>>> International Association of Sanskrit Studies? (IASS), has meanwhile >>>> attracted the attention of also the media, who specifically single out his >>>> name and function: >>>> >>>> >>>> http://indianexpress.com/article/india/india-news-india/murty-library-editor-petition-wants-us-scholar-removed-cites-jnu-remarks/ >>>> >>>> >>>> http://www.huffingtonpost.in/2016/03/01/sheldon-pollock-murty-lib_n_9345928.html >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> In terms of Indological research, it is perhaps of no little >>>> significance that the President of the IASS - a leading organization >>>> carrying ?International? as part of their name and arranging the "World >>>> Sanskrit Conference" on a regular basis - publicly supports the text of the >>>> debated petition in full and demands, among others, ?Make in India? ethics >>>> and ?Swadeshi Indology? in contexts of research and academic publications >>>> guidelines. Trying to be ?international? and ?swadeshi? at the same time >>>> clearly equals a contradiction in terms. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> The IASS ought to state their position in this matter by clarifying if, >>>> in promoting nationalist ideas of Indological research, their president is >>>> acting on their behalf: >>>> >>>> http://www.sanskritassociation.org/board-members.php >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Thanks and regards, >>>> >>>> WS >>>> >>> >>> >>> ----------------------------- >>> Prof. Dr. Walter Slaje >>> Hermann-L?ns-Str. 1 >>> D-99425 Weimar >>> Deutschland >>> >>> Ego ex animi mei sententia spondeo ac polliceor >>> studia humanitatis impigro labore culturum et provecturum >>> non sordidi lucri causa nec ad vanam captandam gloriam, >>> sed quo magis veritas propagetur et lux eius, qua salus >>> humani generis continetur, clarius effulgeat. >>> Vindobonae, die XXI. mensis Novembris MCMLXXXIII. ? >>> >>>> ? >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> INDOLOGY mailing list >>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info >>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing >>> committee) >>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options >>> or unsubscribe) >>> >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> INDOLOGY mailing list >> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info >> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing >> committee) >> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or >> unsubscribe) >> > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tylerwwilliams at gmail.com Thu Mar 3 16:46:50 2016 From: tylerwwilliams at gmail.com (Tyler Williams) Date: Thu, 03 Mar 16 10:46:50 -0600 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Against the petition against Prof. Pollock In-Reply-To: Message-ID: To spare everyone an extended polemic, I will simply say for the moment that the 'anti-sedition' law of the Indian constitution is adopted directly from colonial law. It *does not* address 'hate speech', i.e. the incitement of individuals or groups to commit violence against the country's citizens. (This would indeed be a good thing, and if there were such a law, then half of the BJP and RSS, including the current Prime Minister Narendra Modi, would be in jail!) However, the anti-sedition law is vaguely worded and targeted against 'anti-national' activities, i.e. inciting action against the 'nation', whatever that may be construed as. (This was used against freedom fighters during the anti-colonial struggle.) The judgement in Singhal vs. Union of India has only made the language more vague. The current government is using the statute in a novel way, using it to ban a variety of speech and other freedoms (like assembly) that are typically protected under law. Interpreted openly, it could be (and is being used to) prohibit forms of 'symbolic' violence or 'destabilization', like publishing maps of Kashmir not okayed by the Indian government, to chant the names of those executed by the Indian state, etc. A law prohibiting hate speech would be most welcome-- then citizens could then address the inciting rhetoric of many politicians and 'activists' against women, Dalits, religious minorities, and the LGBT community (see Martha Nussbaum's upcoming book on just this subject). And, for what its worth, half of those alleged 'slogans' quoted in the judge's report have recently been found to have been invented, manipulated, or incited by members of the right-wing AVBP at the event, or by political and media persons after the event. They reflect Malhotra's and other's misrepresentation of Pollock and non-Indian scholar's comments in an effort to whip up existential fears and identity politics for narrow political gains. Perhaps others can weigh in. In any case, I am not comfortable with this one JNU student being asked to pay for the supposed intellectual 'disease' of the students of his university, just as I am not comfortable with the idea that a man like Afzal Guru, though "no evidence that [he] belonged to any terrorist group or organization", should be executed for the purpose of "satisfying the collective conscience." (The words are taken from the court's execution order itself.) Best, TWW On Thu, Mar 3, 2016 at 5:02 AM, Nityanand Misra wrote: > Dear list > > Apropos Prof. Tyler Williams' first point, the judgement mentions on page > 6 that there were thirty slogans quoted in pages 3 to 5 of the status > report filed by the State. I do not have the status report, but Justice > Rani mentions on page 11 of her judgement seven of these slogans, which I > reproduce below along with my translations. The slogans eulogize Afzal Guru > (convicted by Indian courts for plotting a terrorist attack on the Indian > parliament), warn that India will be split into pieces, and call for > achieving freedom by the use of guns. > > 1. AFZAL GURU MAQBOOL BHATT JINDABAD. > English: Long live Afzal Guru and Maqbool Bhatt. > > 2. BHARAT KI BARBADI TAK JUNG RAHEGI JUNG RAHEGI > English: The battle will go on and on till India is destroyed. > > 3. GO INDIA GO BACK > English: No translation needed. > > 4. INDIAN ARMY MURDABAD > English: Death to Indian Army. > > 5. BHARAT TERE TUKKDE HONGE? INSHAALLAHA INSHAALLAHA > English: India, you will be split in pieces, Allah willing, Allah willing. > > 6. AFZAL KI HATYA NAHI SAHENGE NAHI SAHENGE > English: We will not tolerate the murder of Afzal Guru. > > 7. BANDOOK KI DUM PE LENGE AAZADI. > English: We will achieve freedom by the [use of] guns. > > The court ruling does not specify what exactly is anti-national here, but > I think it is pretty obvious that glorification of the mastermind of the > attack on Indian Parliament, calls for waging a battle till India is > destroyed or achieving freedom by violence are anti-India. > > In India, freedom of speech and expression is not absolute. As per clause > (2) of article 19 of the Indian Constitution (cited in Justice Rani's > judgement), existing laws can operate and new laws can be made to place > reasonable restrictions on the freedom of speech and expression ?in the > interests of the sovereignty and integrity of India, the security of the > State, friendly relations with foreign States, public order, decency or > morality or in relation to contempt of court, defamation or incitement to > an offence.? > > The slogans above need to be seen in this important context. Do they > qualify as sedition? I think so, but the Indian courts will rule. We will > need to see how they apply section 124A of the Indian Penal Code and the > Supreme Court ruling in the case of Kedar Nath Singh vs State Of Bihar > (1962 AIR 955, 1962 SCR Supl. 2 769) in this case. The 1962 ruling > (available here: http://indiankanoon.org/doc/111867/) interpreted 124A to > be applicable to activities involving ?incitement to violence or > intention/tendency to create public disorder or disturbance of law and > order/public peace.? > > I disagree with the observations made by Prof. Tyler Williams in his > points (2) to (4), and especially the term repressive and totalitarian > thought for a judgement by an Indian court. > > For point (2), I believe the point being made is that the Indian armed > forces ensure a safe environment. The word democracy is not used by the > Judge in the statement. > > For point (3), the previous paragraph is relevant: ?The thoughts reflected > in the slogans raised by some of the students of JNU who organized and > participated in that programme cannot be claimed to be protected as > fundamental right to freedom of speech and expression. I consider this as a > kind of infection from which such students are suffering which needs to be > controlled/cured before it becomes an epidemic.? The judgement specifically > refers to the thoughts reflected in some specific slogans on JNU as an > ?infection? and not to any expression speech questioning the government. I > do not think this is fascist language or pogrom logic. The Indian > government is questioned every day in both the Lok Sabha and the Rajya > Sabha the ongoing session of the parliament, and the court ruling certainly > does not apply to this. > > For point (4), curbing of what the court calls anti-national activity is > not the same as policing all thought on campus. Criticism of the elected > government is not an anti-national activity, it happens all the time in > India and nobody gets charged with sedition for the same. > > Thanks, Nityanand > On Mar 3, 2016 11:30 AM, "Tyler Williams" > wrote: > >> Dear colleagues, >> >> I must apologize in advance-- I would like to keep the discussion on a >> positive note, and concisely explore ways that we can continue to work >> together to not only protect intellectual freedoms but also to make the >> public more aware of the good work being done by Indian and non-Indian >> Indologists (many of you are already doing this important work that helps >> to avoid the kind of under-informed positions that are gaining currency). >> I also greatly appreciate the insights shared by Dominik, Ananya, Matthew, >> Anandavardhanan, Andrew and numerous others. >> >> Yet I find the suggestion that "The full judgement of Pratibha Rani >> should likewise be read by all those who signed the solidarity statement on >> JNU" because "they can learn a lesson or two from it," a bit troubling. I >> agree that we should all read the statement-- it is a clear marker of how >> imperiled free speech and intellectual freedom at Indian universities are >> at the present moment. However, the suggestion that scholars like Sheldon >> Pollock, myself, and many of you who signed the petition in support of JNU >> should 'learn' from Justice Rani's statement is deeply troubling. Among >> the many problematic things Justice Rani has written, the following stand >> out: >> >> 1. "The thoughts reflected in the slogans raised by some of the students >> of JNU who organized and participated in that programme cannot be claimed >> to be protected as fundamental right to freedom of speech and expression. I >> consider this as a kind of infection from which such students are suffering >> which needs to be controlled/cured before it becomes an epidemic." Neither >> does the Justice Rani specify exactly or convincingly what is >> 'anti-national' in the students' thought and speech, nor does she explain >> why it is anti-national. >> >> 2. "Suffice it to note that such persons enjoy the freedom to raise such >> slogans in the comfort of University Campus but without realising that they >> are in this safe environment because our forces are there at the battle >> field situated at the highest altitude of the world where even the oxygen >> is so scarce that those who are shouting anti-national slogans holding >> posters of Afzal Guru and Maqbool Bhatt close to their chest honoring their >> martyrdom, may not be even able to withstand those conditions for an hour >> even." This bizarrely-worded argument referencing Siachen glacier suggests >> that the exercise of military power ensures democracy, *not the actual >> exercise of democratic rights like the right to free speech.* >> >> 3. "Whenever some infection is spread in a limb, effort is made to cure >> the same by giving antibiotics orally and if that does not work, by >> following second line of treatment. Sometimes it may require surgical >> intervention also. However, if the infection results in infecting the limb >> to the extent that it becomes gangrene, amputation is the only treatment." >> This reference to the aforementioned 'epidemic' is a clear and chilling >> threat made to those who dare to question the government, echoing the >> language of fascist regimes and pogrom logic. >> >> 4. Justice Rani states that she grants bail to the jailed president of >> the JNU Students Union on the condition that "as President of JNU Students >> Union, he will make all efforts within his power to control anti-national >> activities in the campus" and elsewhere suggests that JNU faculty and >> administrators should curb anti-national thought on campus. This amounts >> to nothing less than an order to police thought on the university campus >> and a threat that failure to do so will result in the cancelation of bail. >> >> Since this email is already lengthy, I will simply invite colleagues to >> read the document, but do wish to register my serious concern that this >> appears to be a step backward, not forward, in securing intellectual and >> political freedoms in the academy. Let's please keep the conversation >> positive and moving forward, but we should also not let it go unremarked >> when it is suggested that we who have the temerity to speak up for academic >> freedom should 'learn from' repressive and totalitarian thought. >> >> Respectfully, >> >> Tyler Williams >> Assistant Professor >> University of Chicago >> >> >> >> On Wed, Mar 2, 2016 at 9:40 PM, Nityanand Misra wrote: >> >>> Dear list members >>> >>> Late last night, Mr. Rohan Murty stated to the Economic Times that Prof. >>> Sheldon Pollock will stay on the board of MCLI for ?many years to come?.[1] >>> With this, the short-lived controversy is over and the chapter is closed, >>> and it is time for everybody to move on. While I do not personally agree >>> with one statement of Mr. Murty ("there aren't more scholars in India >>> capable of carrying out such translations from ancient literature"), I >>> respect his decision and am nobody to question it. Mr. Murty's comments >>> should be read by all petitioners, they can learn a lesson or two from >>> them. >>> >>> Concidentally, yesterday evening Justice Pratibha Rani granted a >>> six-month interim bail to JNU student Kanhaiya Kumar with some conditions >>> (he will not participate actively or passively in ... and make all efforts >>> within his power to control ... anti-national activities).[2] The full >>> judgement of Pratibha Rani should likewise be read by all those who signed >>> the solidarity statement on JNU, they can learn a lesson or two from it. >>> >>> [1] Divya Shekhar and Indulekha Aravind (March 3 2016), Rohan Murty says >>> American Indologist Sheldon Pollock to stay, Economic Times, URL: >>> http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/articleshow/51231553.cms >>> >>> [2] Justice Praibha Rani (March 2 2016), Kanhaiya Kumar versus the State >>> of NCT of Delhi, Delhi High Coury, URL: >>> http://lobis.nic.in/ddir/dhc/PRA/judgement/02-03-2016/PRA02032016CRLW5582016.pdf >>> On Mar 1, 2016 2:04 PM, "Caren Dreyer" wrote: >>> >>>> Dear all, isnt it time for an alphabetical blacklist to be regularly >>>> updated in order not to invite the wrong persons financed by public funds >>>> caren dreyer >>>> >>>> Sent from my phone. >>>> >>>> On 01 Mar 2016, at 13:31, Walter Slaje wrote: >>>> >>>> ? ? >>>> Dear List, >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> it might be of some relevance to the community of Indologists that >>>>> among the prominent signatories of the Pollock removal petition Prof. >>>>> V. Kutumba Sastry ranks fifth on top of the list: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> https://www.change.org/p/mr-n-r-narayana-murthy-and-mr-rohan-narayan-murty-removal-of-prof-sheldon-pollock-as-mentor-and-chief-editor-of-murty-classical-library >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> That Prof. Kutumba Sastry signed this petition in his capacity of the >>>>> ?President, International Association of Sanskrit Studies? (IASS), >>>>> has meanwhile attracted the attention of also the media, who specifically >>>>> single out his name and function: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> http://indianexpress.com/article/india/india-news-india/murty-library-editor-petition-wants-us-scholar-removed-cites-jnu-remarks/ >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> http://www.huffingtonpost.in/2016/03/01/sheldon-pollock-murty-lib_n_9345928.html >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> In terms of Indological research, it is perhaps of no little >>>>> significance that the President of the IASS - a leading organization >>>>> carrying ?International? as part of their name and arranging the "World >>>>> Sanskrit Conference" on a regular basis - publicly supports the text of the >>>>> debated petition in full and demands, among others, ?Make in India? ethics >>>>> and ?Swadeshi Indology? in contexts of research and academic publications >>>>> guidelines. Trying to be ?international? and ?swadeshi? at the same time >>>>> clearly equals a contradiction in terms. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> The IASS ought to state their position in this matter by clarifying >>>>> if, in promoting nationalist ideas of Indological research, their president >>>>> is acting on their behalf: >>>>> >>>>> http://www.sanskritassociation.org/board-members.php >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Thanks and regards, >>>>> >>>>> WS >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> ----------------------------- >>>> Prof. Dr. Walter Slaje >>>> Hermann-L?ns-Str. 1 >>>> D-99425 Weimar >>>> Deutschland >>>> >>>> Ego ex animi mei sententia spondeo ac polliceor >>>> studia humanitatis impigro labore culturum et provecturum >>>> non sordidi lucri causa nec ad vanam captandam gloriam, >>>> sed quo magis veritas propagetur et lux eius, qua salus >>>> humani generis continetur, clarius effulgeat. >>>> Vindobonae, die XXI. mensis Novembris MCMLXXXIII. ? >>>> >>>>> ? >>>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> INDOLOGY mailing list >>>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info >>>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing >>>> committee) >>>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options >>>> or unsubscribe) >>>> >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> INDOLOGY mailing list >>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info >>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing >>> committee) >>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options >>> or unsubscribe) >>> >> >> -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From veerankp at gmail.com Thu Mar 3 17:08:31 2016 From: veerankp at gmail.com (Veeranarayana Pandurangi) Date: Thu, 03 Mar 16 22:38:31 +0530 Subject: =?utf-8?Q?[INDOLOGY]_Workshop_on_Ontological_Status_of_the_Perceived_World_(04_=E2=80=93_05_March_2016)?= Message-ID: *Two Day Workshop on Ontological Status of the Perceived World* Jointly organised by GAIIT, Mysore and Karnataka Samskrita University, Bangalore (04 ? 05 March 2016) at Karnataka Samskrit University, Pampa Mahakavi Road, Chamaraja Pet, Bengaluru, Karnataka) *DAY 1* *(04 March 2016)* *Time* *Topic* *Speaker* 9.30 am Invocation Smt Meera H R 9.35 am Welcome Prof Shrinivasa Varakhedi 9.40 am Lighting the Lamp Vice-Chancellor and Guests 9.45 am Course Introduction Shri Chittaranjan Naik, Director, GAIIT 9.50 am Inaugural Address Presence Prof Padma Shekhar, Vice- Chancellor, KSU Prof. YS Siddegouda, Registrar, KSU 10.00 am Contemporary Themes in Ontology Prof Sundar Sarukkai, Eminent Scientist and Philosopher 11.00 am Response Dr Pratosh, Scientist, Xerox Lab, Prof K S Kannan, Jain University 11.30 am TEA BREAK 11.45 am Representationalism Shri Chittaranjan Naik, Director, GAIIT 12.30 pm Response Prof Lakshmithathacar, Eminent Philosopher 1.00 pm LUNCH BREAK 2.00 pm Searle's and Penrose's Arguments against the Computational Theory of Mind Dr Shrisa Rao, IIIT, Bangalore 2.45 pm Pratyakshapramanyam Prof Haridasabhatta, Eminent Philosopher, PPVP 3.30 pm TEA BREAK 3.45 pm ? 5.00 pm Discussion Lead by Prof Veeranarayana Pandurangi *DAY 2* *(05 March 2016)* *Time* *Topic* *Speaker* 10.00 pm Ontology and Epistemology : Some Observations Prof Shrinivasa Varakhedi, Dean, Shastra Faculty, KSU 11.00 pm Discussion Lead by Dr M A Alwar, Professor, Maharajas Samskrit College, Mysore 11.30 am TEA BREAK 11.45 am Padarthatatvavivecanam Prof Umakanta Bhatta, Melkote 12.30 pm Discussion Lead by Dr Madhusudana Adiga 2.00 pm Concluding Session Panel Discussion 1. Dr H P Nagaraj, Professor, PPVP, Bangalore 2. Dr G P Nagaraj, Professor, Chamarajendra Samskrit College, Bangalore 3. Pandit Gururaj Mathad, Professor, Chamarajendra Samskrit College, Bangalore 4. Dr Radhakrishna U, Professor, Bangalore University, Bangalore 5. Dr H Satyanarayanachar, Principal, PPVP 6. Dr M Pavamanacharya, Assistant Professor, Chamarajendra Samskrit College, Bangalore 7. Dr Mahabaleshvara Bhatt, Principal, Vedavijnana Gurukulam, Bangalore 8. Shri Shrinivasa Guttal, Poorna Pramati, Bangalore 9. Dr Venkataramanan, Associate Professor, KSU, Bangalore 10. Dr. Shivani, Associate Professor, KSU, Bangalore 11. Dr Vinay, Assistant Professor, KSU, Bangalore 12. Dr Manjunatha Bhatt, Assistant Professor, KSU, Bangalore 13. Shri Bhaskara Bhatt, Assistant Professor, KSU, Bangalore 14. Dr Sharatchandra Swamy, Assistant Professor, KSU, Bangalore 15. Dr Rangachar, Lecturer, PPVP, Bangalore University 16. Pandit Sanatkumaracharya Bengaluru 17. Shri Sudhindra, Lecturer, PPVP, Bangalore 18. Shri Dhananjaya, Lecturer, PPVP, Bangalore 19. Dr. Prahlad Joshi Lecturer, JVP, Bangalore 20. Madhusudanacharya Pandurangi JVP, Bangalore 21. Shri Krishnaprasad, Research Scholar, DVSRF, Bangalore 22. Shri Paritosh Das, Assistant Professor, KSU, Bangalore 23. Dr Kalyan Sharma, Assistant Professor, RSVP, Tirupati 24. Dr Sudarshana, Assistant Professor, Samskrit College, Madhurantakam 25. Shri Cidroopa Sharma, Research Scholar, KSU 26. Shri Shrinidhi Pyati, Lecturer, PPVP, Bangalore 27. Shri Shambhunatha Bhatta, Research Scholar, KSU 28. Shri Naresh Kirti, Doctoral Scholor, NIAS 29. Smt Meera Kannan, Asst Professor, Jain University 30. Dr Shruti H K, Research Assistant, KSU 31. Vidushi Shakuntala Bhat, Research Assistant, KSU 32. Vidvan Udayana Hegde, Research Assistant, KSU -- Veeranarayana N.K. Pandurangi Director of Academics Dean, Faculty of Vedantas Karnakata Samskrita University, Pampa Mahakavi Road, Chamarajpet, Bengaluru. ?? ??????????? ??????? ???????? ? ????????? ??? ???????? ??????? ? ?????? ??????????????? ?????????????? ??????? ??????? ??????????? ??????????????? ?????? ???????? ??????????? (?.??.) http://www.ksu.ac.in http://www.ksu.ac.in/en/dr-veeranarayana-n-k-pandurangi/ https://groups.google.com/forum/?hl=en&fromgroups#!forum/bvparishat -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jknutson at hawaii.edu Thu Mar 3 17:54:59 2016 From: jknutson at hawaii.edu (Jesse Knutson) Date: Thu, 03 Mar 16 07:54:59 -1000 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Against the petition against Prof. Pollock In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Dear Friends, The following article provides a useful contextualization of current events in India: https://www.jacobinmag.com/2016/03/india-students-jnu-protest-narendra-modi-bjp/ On Thu, Mar 3, 2016 at 6:46 AM, Tyler Williams wrote: > To spare everyone an extended polemic, I will simply say for the moment > that the 'anti-sedition' law of the Indian constitution is adopted directly > from colonial law. It *does not* address 'hate speech', i.e. the > incitement of individuals or groups to commit violence against the > country's citizens. (This would indeed be a good thing, and if there were > such a law, then half of the BJP and RSS, including the current Prime > Minister Narendra Modi, would be in jail!) > > However, the anti-sedition law is vaguely worded and targeted against > 'anti-national' activities, i.e. inciting action against the 'nation', > whatever that may be construed as. (This was used against freedom fighters > during the anti-colonial struggle.) The judgement in Singhal vs. Union of > India has only made the language more vague. The current government is > using the statute in a novel way, using it to ban a variety of speech and > other freedoms (like assembly) that are typically protected under law. > Interpreted openly, it could be (and is being used to) prohibit forms of > 'symbolic' violence or 'destabilization', like publishing maps of Kashmir > not okayed by the Indian government, to chant the names of those executed > by the Indian state, etc. > > A law prohibiting hate speech would be most welcome-- then citizens could > then address the inciting rhetoric of many politicians and 'activists' > against women, Dalits, religious minorities, and the LGBT community (see > Martha Nussbaum's upcoming book on just this subject). > > And, for what its worth, half of those alleged 'slogans' quoted in the > judge's report have recently been found to have been invented, manipulated, > or incited by members of the right-wing AVBP at the event, or by political > and media persons after the event. They reflect Malhotra's and other's > misrepresentation of Pollock and non-Indian scholar's comments in an effort > to whip up existential fears and identity politics for narrow political > gains. > > Perhaps others can weigh in. In any case, I am not comfortable with this > one JNU student being asked to pay for the supposed intellectual 'disease' > of the students of his university, just as I am not comfortable with the > idea that a man like Afzal Guru, though "no evidence that [he] belonged to > any terrorist group or organization", should be executed for the purpose of > "satisfying the collective conscience." (The words are taken from the > court's execution order itself.) > > Best, > TWW > > > On Thu, Mar 3, 2016 at 5:02 AM, Nityanand Misra wrote: > >> Dear list >> >> Apropos Prof. Tyler Williams' first point, the judgement mentions on page >> 6 that there were thirty slogans quoted in pages 3 to 5 of the status >> report filed by the State. I do not have the status report, but Justice >> Rani mentions on page 11 of her judgement seven of these slogans, which I >> reproduce below along with my translations. The slogans eulogize Afzal Guru >> (convicted by Indian courts for plotting a terrorist attack on the Indian >> parliament), warn that India will be split into pieces, and call for >> achieving freedom by the use of guns. >> >> 1. AFZAL GURU MAQBOOL BHATT JINDABAD. >> English: Long live Afzal Guru and Maqbool Bhatt. >> >> 2. BHARAT KI BARBADI TAK JUNG RAHEGI JUNG RAHEGI >> English: The battle will go on and on till India is destroyed. >> >> 3. GO INDIA GO BACK >> English: No translation needed. >> >> 4. INDIAN ARMY MURDABAD >> English: Death to Indian Army. >> >> 5. BHARAT TERE TUKKDE HONGE? INSHAALLAHA INSHAALLAHA >> English: India, you will be split in pieces, Allah willing, Allah willing. >> >> 6. AFZAL KI HATYA NAHI SAHENGE NAHI SAHENGE >> English: We will not tolerate the murder of Afzal Guru. >> >> 7. BANDOOK KI DUM PE LENGE AAZADI. >> English: We will achieve freedom by the [use of] guns. >> >> The court ruling does not specify what exactly is anti-national here, but >> I think it is pretty obvious that glorification of the mastermind of the >> attack on Indian Parliament, calls for waging a battle till India is >> destroyed or achieving freedom by violence are anti-India. >> >> In India, freedom of speech and expression is not absolute. As per clause >> (2) of article 19 of the Indian Constitution (cited in Justice Rani's >> judgement), existing laws can operate and new laws can be made to place >> reasonable restrictions on the freedom of speech and expression ?in the >> interests of the sovereignty and integrity of India, the security of the >> State, friendly relations with foreign States, public order, decency or >> morality or in relation to contempt of court, defamation or incitement to >> an offence.? >> >> The slogans above need to be seen in this important context. Do they >> qualify as sedition? I think so, but the Indian courts will rule. We will >> need to see how they apply section 124A of the Indian Penal Code and the >> Supreme Court ruling in the case of Kedar Nath Singh vs State Of Bihar >> (1962 AIR 955, 1962 SCR Supl. 2 769) in this case. The 1962 ruling >> (available here: http://indiankanoon.org/doc/111867/) interpreted 124A >> to be applicable to activities involving ?incitement to violence or >> intention/tendency to create public disorder or disturbance of law and >> order/public peace.? >> >> I disagree with the observations made by Prof. Tyler Williams in his >> points (2) to (4), and especially the term repressive and totalitarian >> thought for a judgement by an Indian court. >> >> For point (2), I believe the point being made is that the Indian armed >> forces ensure a safe environment. The word democracy is not used by the >> Judge in the statement. >> >> For point (3), the previous paragraph is relevant: ?The thoughts >> reflected in the slogans raised by some of the students of JNU who >> organized and participated in that programme cannot be claimed to be >> protected as fundamental right to freedom of speech and expression. I >> consider this as a kind of infection from which such students are suffering >> which needs to be controlled/cured before it becomes an epidemic.? The >> judgement specifically refers to the thoughts reflected in some specific >> slogans on JNU as an ?infection? and not to any expression speech >> questioning the government. I do not think this is fascist language or >> pogrom logic. The Indian government is questioned every day in both the >> Lok Sabha and the Rajya Sabha the ongoing session of the parliament, and >> the court ruling certainly does not apply to this. >> >> For point (4), curbing of what the court calls anti-national activity is >> not the same as policing all thought on campus. Criticism of the elected >> government is not an anti-national activity, it happens all the time in >> India and nobody gets charged with sedition for the same. >> >> Thanks, Nityanand >> On Mar 3, 2016 11:30 AM, "Tyler Williams" >> wrote: >> >>> Dear colleagues, >>> >>> I must apologize in advance-- I would like to keep the discussion on a >>> positive note, and concisely explore ways that we can continue to work >>> together to not only protect intellectual freedoms but also to make the >>> public more aware of the good work being done by Indian and non-Indian >>> Indologists (many of you are already doing this important work that helps >>> to avoid the kind of under-informed positions that are gaining currency). >>> I also greatly appreciate the insights shared by Dominik, Ananya, Matthew, >>> Anandavardhanan, Andrew and numerous others. >>> >>> Yet I find the suggestion that "The full judgement of Pratibha Rani >>> should likewise be read by all those who signed the solidarity statement on >>> JNU" because "they can learn a lesson or two from it," a bit troubling. I >>> agree that we should all read the statement-- it is a clear marker of how >>> imperiled free speech and intellectual freedom at Indian universities are >>> at the present moment. However, the suggestion that scholars like Sheldon >>> Pollock, myself, and many of you who signed the petition in support of JNU >>> should 'learn' from Justice Rani's statement is deeply troubling. Among >>> the many problematic things Justice Rani has written, the following stand >>> out: >>> >>> 1. "The thoughts reflected in the slogans raised by some of the >>> students of JNU who organized and participated in that programme cannot be >>> claimed to be protected as fundamental right to freedom of speech and >>> expression. I consider this as a kind of infection from which such students >>> are suffering which needs to be controlled/cured before it becomes an >>> epidemic." Neither does the Justice Rani specify exactly or convincingly >>> what is 'anti-national' in the students' thought and speech, nor does she >>> explain why it is anti-national. >>> >>> 2. "Suffice it to note that such persons enjoy the freedom to raise such >>> slogans in the comfort of University Campus but without realising that they >>> are in this safe environment because our forces are there at the battle >>> field situated at the highest altitude of the world where even the oxygen >>> is so scarce that those who are shouting anti-national slogans holding >>> posters of Afzal Guru and Maqbool Bhatt close to their chest honoring their >>> martyrdom, may not be even able to withstand those conditions for an hour >>> even." This bizarrely-worded argument referencing Siachen glacier suggests >>> that the exercise of military power ensures democracy, *not the actual >>> exercise of democratic rights like the right to free speech.* >>> >>> 3. "Whenever some infection is spread in a limb, effort is made to cure >>> the same by giving antibiotics orally and if that does not work, by >>> following second line of treatment. Sometimes it may require surgical >>> intervention also. However, if the infection results in infecting the limb >>> to the extent that it becomes gangrene, amputation is the only treatment." >>> This reference to the aforementioned 'epidemic' is a clear and chilling >>> threat made to those who dare to question the government, echoing the >>> language of fascist regimes and pogrom logic. >>> >>> 4. Justice Rani states that she grants bail to the jailed president of >>> the JNU Students Union on the condition that "as President of JNU Students >>> Union, he will make all efforts within his power to control anti-national >>> activities in the campus" and elsewhere suggests that JNU faculty and >>> administrators should curb anti-national thought on campus. This amounts >>> to nothing less than an order to police thought on the university campus >>> and a threat that failure to do so will result in the cancelation of bail. >>> >>> Since this email is already lengthy, I will simply invite colleagues to >>> read the document, but do wish to register my serious concern that this >>> appears to be a step backward, not forward, in securing intellectual and >>> political freedoms in the academy. Let's please keep the conversation >>> positive and moving forward, but we should also not let it go unremarked >>> when it is suggested that we who have the temerity to speak up for academic >>> freedom should 'learn from' repressive and totalitarian thought. >>> >>> Respectfully, >>> >>> Tyler Williams >>> Assistant Professor >>> University of Chicago >>> >>> >>> >>> On Wed, Mar 2, 2016 at 9:40 PM, Nityanand Misra >>> wrote: >>> >>>> Dear list members >>>> >>>> Late last night, Mr. Rohan Murty stated to the Economic Times that >>>> Prof. Sheldon Pollock will stay on the board of MCLI for ?many years to >>>> come?.[1] With this, the short-lived controversy is over and the chapter is >>>> closed, and it is time for everybody to move on. While I do not personally >>>> agree with one statement of Mr. Murty ("there aren't more scholars in India >>>> capable of carrying out such translations from ancient literature"), I >>>> respect his decision and am nobody to question it. Mr. Murty's comments >>>> should be read by all petitioners, they can learn a lesson or two from >>>> them. >>>> >>>> Concidentally, yesterday evening Justice Pratibha Rani granted a >>>> six-month interim bail to JNU student Kanhaiya Kumar with some conditions >>>> (he will not participate actively or passively in ... and make all efforts >>>> within his power to control ... anti-national activities).[2] The full >>>> judgement of Pratibha Rani should likewise be read by all those who signed >>>> the solidarity statement on JNU, they can learn a lesson or two from it. >>>> >>>> [1] Divya Shekhar and Indulekha Aravind (March 3 2016), Rohan Murty >>>> says American Indologist Sheldon Pollock to stay, Economic Times, URL: >>>> http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/articleshow/51231553.cms >>>> >>>> [2] Justice Praibha Rani (March 2 2016), Kanhaiya Kumar versus the >>>> State of NCT of Delhi, Delhi High Coury, URL: >>>> http://lobis.nic.in/ddir/dhc/PRA/judgement/02-03-2016/PRA02032016CRLW5582016.pdf >>>> On Mar 1, 2016 2:04 PM, "Caren Dreyer" wrote: >>>> >>>>> Dear all, isnt it time for an alphabetical blacklist to be regularly >>>>> updated in order not to invite the wrong persons financed by public funds >>>>> caren dreyer >>>>> >>>>> Sent from my phone. >>>>> >>>>> On 01 Mar 2016, at 13:31, Walter Slaje wrote: >>>>> >>>>> ? ? >>>>> Dear List, >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> it might be of some relevance to the community of Indologists that >>>>>> among the prominent signatories of the Pollock removal petition Prof. >>>>>> V. Kutumba Sastry ranks fifth on top of the list: >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> https://www.change.org/p/mr-n-r-narayana-murthy-and-mr-rohan-narayan-murty-removal-of-prof-sheldon-pollock-as-mentor-and-chief-editor-of-murty-classical-library >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> That Prof. Kutumba Sastry signed this petition in his capacity of >>>>>> the ?President, International Association of Sanskrit Studies? >>>>>> (IASS), has meanwhile attracted the attention of also the media, who >>>>>> specifically single out his name and function: >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> http://indianexpress.com/article/india/india-news-india/murty-library-editor-petition-wants-us-scholar-removed-cites-jnu-remarks/ >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> http://www.huffingtonpost.in/2016/03/01/sheldon-pollock-murty-lib_n_9345928.html >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> In terms of Indological research, it is perhaps of no little >>>>>> significance that the President of the IASS - a leading organization >>>>>> carrying ?International? as part of their name and arranging the "World >>>>>> Sanskrit Conference" on a regular basis - publicly supports the text of the >>>>>> debated petition in full and demands, among others, ?Make in India? ethics >>>>>> and ?Swadeshi Indology? in contexts of research and academic publications >>>>>> guidelines. Trying to be ?international? and ?swadeshi? at the same time >>>>>> clearly equals a contradiction in terms. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> The IASS ought to state their position in this matter by clarifying >>>>>> if, in promoting nationalist ideas of Indological research, their president >>>>>> is acting on their behalf: >>>>>> >>>>>> http://www.sanskritassociation.org/board-members.php >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Thanks and regards, >>>>>> >>>>>> WS >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> ----------------------------- >>>>> Prof. Dr. Walter Slaje >>>>> Hermann-L?ns-Str. 1 >>>>> D-99425 Weimar >>>>> Deutschland >>>>> >>>>> Ego ex animi mei sententia spondeo ac polliceor >>>>> studia humanitatis impigro labore culturum et provecturum >>>>> non sordidi lucri causa nec ad vanam captandam gloriam, >>>>> sed quo magis veritas propagetur et lux eius, qua salus >>>>> humani generis continetur, clarius effulgeat. >>>>> Vindobonae, die XXI. mensis Novembris MCMLXXXIII. ? >>>>> >>>>>> ? >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> INDOLOGY mailing list >>>>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info >>>>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing >>>>> committee) >>>>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options >>>>> or unsubscribe) >>>>> >>>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> INDOLOGY mailing list >>>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info >>>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing >>>> committee) >>>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options >>>> or unsubscribe) >>>> >>> >>> > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing > committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or > unsubscribe) > -- Jesse Ross Knutson PhD Assistant Professor of Sanskrit and Bengali, Department of Indo-Pacific Languages and Literatures University of Hawai'i at M?noa 461 Spalding -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From baums at lmu.de Thu Mar 3 22:24:41 2016 From: baums at lmu.de (Stefan Baums) Date: Thu, 03 Mar 16 14:24:41 -0800 Subject: [INDOLOGY] [mullaikramas@gmail.com: Fwd: Against the petition against Prof. Pollock] Message-ID: <20160303222441.GC3682@deepthought> The below is forwarded to the list at the request of Professors Ramasubramanian, Srinivas and Wujastyk. ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Krishnamurthi Ramasubramanian Date: 2 March 2016 at 12:29 Subject: Re: Against the petition against Prof. Pollock To: Dominik Wujastyk Cc: Mandyam D Srinivas Dear Prof. Wujastyk, Thank you for your mail concerning the petition calling for a reconstitution of the editorial board of the Murty Classical Library of India. I am grateful to you for your kind words of appreciation on the work of our group on the Indian tradition of Mathematics and Astronomy. At the outset let me clarify, as I have done elsewhere too, that I was not the prime mover behind this petition though I fully subscribe to it as a signatory. It was by error that the petition was uploaded in my name at change.org, an error which has been corrected subsequently. I also appreciate your kind gesture to enclose the mail that you had sent to the Indology Discussion Forum in response to some of the issues raised in the petition. I just arrived in New Zealand as a visiting Erskine Fellow in the Department of Mathematics, University of Canterbury, and it took sometime for me to settle here. I also had to give a couple of lectures, and hence the delay in responding to your posting in the Indology Forum. The following response is prepared by me in consultation with my colleague Prof. M .D. Srinivas (cc-ed). We would greatly appreciate, if you could post this response in the Indology Discussion Forum. Thanks much, and Best regards, -ram. -------------------- Response to Prof. Wujastyk's posting in Indology Discussion Forum -------------------- We are surprised that Prof. Wujastyk's response to our petition is totally silent on the main issue raised in the petition, which is that Prof. Pollock has been a prominent signatory of two statements which have strongly condemned the actions of the authorities of the Jawaharlal Nehru University (JNU) and the Government of India in taking constitutionally mandated legal actions against the anti-national slogans raised by an unauthorized assembly of protesters at the JNU on the 9th of February 2016. While castigating the actions of the democratically elected Government of India as an ?authoritative menace?, these statements do not condemn the protesters who called for the dismemberment of India and abused the Supreme Court of India for ?judical killing?. Clearly Prof. Pollock and others who were signatories to these statements have no respect for the unity and integrity of India which has been won after a long struggle of the Indian people against colonial rule. We are at a total loss as to how Prof. Wujastyk could miss this central issue which was the `"main context" of this petition calling upon the Murty Classical Library not to be mentored by academics who have an ideological and political bias that does not allow them even to respect the unity and integrity of India. In the following, we shall only briefly respond to Prof. Wujastyk's point that the petition has misconstrued the views of Prof. Pollock on ?What South Asian Knowledge is Good For?. http://www.columbia.edu/cu/mesaas/faculty/directory/pollock_pub/What%20is%20South%20Asian%20Knowledge%20Good%20for.pdf He has referred to the following passage cited in the earlier version of the petition from the 2012 Heidelberg lecture of Prof. Pollock: "Are there any decision makers, as they refer to themselves, at universities and foundations who would not agree that, in the cognitive sweepstakes of human history, Western knowledge has won and South Asian knowledge has lost? ...That, accordingly, the South Asian knowledge South Asians themselves have produced can no longer be held to have any significant consequences for the future of the human species?? Prof. Wujastyk would like us to believe that, Prof. Pollock is only presenting the above statement as a ????????? (purvapaksha). Sorry, if it were so, all the theses presented in ????????? have to be completely refuted before presenting the ?????????. Prof. Pollock has only begun with what he believes is a "statement of fact" that the leaders of Western academia are unanimous in their conviction that ?Western knowledge has won and South Asian knowledge has lost? and that South Asian knowledge "has no significant consequences for the future of the human species". If this were to be a ????????? in Pollock's paper, the rest of the paper would have been devoted to the ????? (systematic refutation), of this ????????? in its entirety. Here, we do not even see Prof. Pollock expressing his deep shock or strong condemnation that such a Western supremacist view is prevalent in the exalted circles of Western academia. It is true that Prof. Pollock does concede (these are the examples that Prof. Wujastyk also cites) that there are some South Asian ?forms of knowledge that may be thought of to possess a truth value for the contemporary world (the nature and nomenclature of nominal compounding or aesthetic response) or at least a truth value for some people in the contemporary world (the benefits of yogic asanas and pranayama)?. However it is Prof. Pollock's considered view that the ?greater part of South Asian achievements and understandings? have ?no claim whatever ... to any universal truth value in themselves, and precisely because they pertain to what are specifically South Asian modes of making sense of the world.? Prof. Pollock is indeed very forthright in expressing his opinion that he does not believe that ?South Asian contribution is the most important ever made to world knowledge? and that ?What the region does provide is a record of achievements of human consciousness? which ?allows us to frame a strong hypotheses about the nature of that consciousness and the conditions of its transformation?. These need to be studied ?*in and of themselves*? and not because they ?enable us to live intelligently in the world." Clearly, Prof. Pollock sees little role for ?Indian knowledge? *qua* ?knowledge? in the contemporary world or for the future of human species. Its relevance is mainly as a historical expression of human consciousness which could help ?us? (namely, the Western academia) to learn something about the nature of that consciousness. After arguing for such a thesis (?????????), it is indeed ironical that Prof. Pollock makes a claim in the end of his talk that "our understanding of 'usefulness' and 'truth' [of South Asian knowledge] has grown substantially in the time since Marx and Weber". It was this thesis that was summarised in the petition by the statement that Prof. Pollock holds the view that ?the shastras generated in India serve no contemporary purpose except for the study of how Indians express themselves.? It is indeed a fairly accurate summary of the thesis presented by Prof. Pollock in the Heidelberg lecture. As regards Prof. Pollock?s 1985 paper, we would also not go into details, except for drawing attention to the following pronouncement in the abstract of the paper: ?The understanding of the relationship of Sastra (?theory?) to Prayoga (?practical activity?) in Sanskritic culture ...Theory is held always and necessarily to precede and govern practice; there is no dialectical interaction between them. ? Any scholar who has studied the standard texts of Indian sciences such as Jyotisha or Ayurveda would not fail to see how these texts advise the practitioner of their sciences to be acutely aware of the limitations of the theories expounded in the sastras which are only thought of as means (???? ). The Jyotisha texts emphasize the need for continuous examination (??????? ) of the procedures taught through observations. The Ayurvedic texts, as Prof. Wujastyk is indeed well aware, go to the extent of declaring that ?the entire world is a teacher of the intelligent? and that the ?Sastra is a light which serves to illuminate. It is ones own intellect that perceives the correct course of action.? In his monumental work Narayaniyam, Narayana Bhattatiri succinctly summarizing an important section of Bhagavata observes: ????????????? ????????? ? ?? ??? ????: ??????????? ????? ? Prof. Pollock only betrays his deep prejudice against the Vedic culture when he concludes the abstract with another pronouncement that ?... [In sastras,] progress can only be achieved by a regressive re-appropriation of the past The eternality of the Vedas, the sastra par excellence, is one presupposition or justification for this assessment of sastra. Its principal ideological effects are to naturalize and de-historicize cultural practices, two components in a larger discourse of power.? > It is precisely scholarship of this genre that Mahatma Gandhi aptly characterised in his seminal work *Hind Swaraj* over a hundred years ago: "The English ... have a habit of writing history; they pretend to study the manners and customs of all peoples. God has given us a limited mental capacity, but they usurp the function of the Godhead... They write about their own researches in most laudatory terms and hypnotise us into believing them. We, in our ignorance, then fall at their feet." We are not upset by Prof. Wujastyk's claim that ?Prof. Ramasubramanian has misunderstood Prof. Pollock's views by 180 degrees?, though it is totally incorrect. But we are deeply dismayed by his insinuation that many of those who have signed this petition (most of them eminent Indian scholars) ?have signed Prof. Ramasubramanian's petition, presumably without having read Prof. Pollock's work for themselves, or having failed to understand it.? As indicated by Gandhi, statements exhibiting such condescension borders almost on racial prejudice. K Ramasubramanian, Professor, Department of Humanities and Social Sciences, IIT Bombay M D Srinivas Chairman, Center for Policy Studies, Chennai and Member ICHR --------------------- On Sat, Feb 27, 2016 at 9:31 PM, Dominik Wujastyk wrote: > Dear Prof. Ramasubramanian, > > Yesterday I became aware of your petition against Prof. Pollock. I was > saddened to see what you had written, and I have responded in the email > below, sent to the INDOLOGY discussion forum. > > As you know, I deeply respect the work you do in researching and teaching > ??????????????. In a similar way, I admire the work Prof. Pollock does in > reseaching and teaching various ??????????. It is regrettable that you > have attacked the work he does with the Murty Library, to make known the > wonder that is India. > > Sincerely, > Dominik Wujastyk > > -- > Professor Dominik Wujastyk* > Singhmar Chair in Classical Indian Society and Polity > Department of History and Classics > > University of Alberta, Canada > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > From: Dominik Wujastyk > Date: 27 February 2016 at 08:52 > Subject: Against the petition against Prof. Pollock > To: Indology > > > I discovered yesterday that there exists a petition > > launched by Prof. K. Ramasubramanian that asks for Prof. Sheldon Pollock to > be removed from his editorial leadership role with the Murty Library. > > The argument against Pollock is based on the idea that, "he has deep > antipathy towards many of the ideals and values cherished and practiced in > our civilization." The most prominent evidence given to support this > assertion is a quotation from a 2012 lecture that Prof. Pollock gave at the > South Asia Institute in Heidelberg, titled, "What is South Asian Knowledge > Good For?" Prof. Ramasubramanian states that Prof. Pollock "echoes the > views of Macaulay and Max Weber that the shastras generated in India serve > no contemporary purpose except for the study of how Indians express > themselves." Unfortunately, Prof. Ramasubramanian has not correctly > understood these passages in Prof. Pollock's paper, nor the meaning of the > 2012 lecture as a whole. > > Prof. Pollock cites Macaulay and Weber as ????????? positions to his own, > opposite view. Prof. Pollock presents Macaulay and Weber as examples of > the worst kind of misunderstanding of Indian wisdom. He does this in order > to build his own argument that there is a deeper knowledge in India than > Macaualy or Weber realized, the knowledge that is the "South Asian > Knowledge" of his title. This is the knowledge of the Indian ??????????, > the Indian knowledge systems that Prof. Pollock is defending. > > Prof. Ramasubramanian then cites a passage in which Prof. Pollock says, > > Are there any decision makers, as they refer to themselves, at > universities and foundations who would not agree that, in the cognitive > sweepstakes of human history, Western knowledge has won and South Asian > knowledge has lost? ...That, accordingly, the South Asian knowledge South > Asians themselves have produced can no longer be held to have any > significant consequences for the future of the human species? > > In this passage, Prof. Pollock is *criticising* the administrators of > western universities who do not give proper recognition and value to Indian > knowledge systems, and only view India as a place to make money or to make > practical applications of knowledge systems of the West. Again, this is > the ?????????. Prof. Pollock's central argument is that the special, > unique knowledge systems developed in India, mainly recorded in Sanskrit, > are of great value, and that this fact is not recognized by "universities > and foundations" who, like Macauley and Weber, think that Indian knowledge > systems have been superseded by Western ones. Prof. Pollock's point of > view is that the ?????????? , representing South Asian Knowledge, are > precious, worth studying, and still have much to offer modern cultural > life. On pages six and seven of his lecture, he gives the examples of > ??????? and the theory of ?? as forms of knowledge that were developed to a > uniquely high degree in early India, and that still have the power to > enrich thought today. On the subsequent pages, he begins to make the even > more difficult argument for finding modern value in even more > internally-oriented Indian sciences such as ???????, ??????? and > ????????????. > > The larger point of Prof. Pollock's article is that the institutions of > higher education in America and elsewhere have found it difficult over the > last fifty years or more to develop institutional structures to support the > study of *Indian* knowledge systems, and that the South Asia Institute in > Heidelberg is a model of success in allowing those who develop knowledge *about > *India to work in harmony alongside those who deepen their appreciation > of the knowledge that was developed *by *India. > > It would be possible to make similar arguments for the other evidence > referred to by Prof. Ramasubramanian, e.g., Prof. Pollock's 1985 paper on > the character and importance of ??????????, of South Asian knowledge > systems. In that paper, Prof. Pollock says that, "Classical Indian > civilization, however, offers what may be the most exquisite expression of > the centrality of rule-governance in human behavior" and that ??stra is "a > monumental, in some cases unparalleled, intellectual accomplishment in its > own right." One could discuss this paper further. But to cite it as an > example of a criticism of India is the opposite of the truth. > > It is regrettable that Prof. Ramasubramanian has misunderstood Prof. > Pollock's views by 180 degrees. Prof. Pollock is a champion for the same > values of Indian culture as Prof. Ramasubramanian. That is why Prof. > Pollock devised and brought into being the Murty Classical Library. > > Many people have signed Prof. Ramasubramanian's petition, presumably > without having read Prof. Pollock's work for themselves, or having failed > to undestand it. The damage done by this misunderstanding is likely to > last a long time, and hamper the efforts of Prof. Pollock and others who > seek to bring the glory and subtlety of ancient Indian knowledge to the > attention of the modern world. > > -- > Professor Dominik Wujastyk* > Singhmar Chair in Classical Indian Society and Polity > Department of History and Classics > > University of Alberta, Canada > > On Sat, Feb 27, 2016 at 9:31 PM, Dominik Wujastyk wrote: > Dear Prof. Ramasubramanian, > > Yesterday I became aware of your petition against Prof. Pollock. I was > saddened to see what you had written, and I have responded in the email > below, sent to the INDOLOGY discussion forum. > > As you know, I deeply respect the work you do in researching and teaching > ??????????????. In a similar way, I admire the work Prof. Pollock does in > reseaching and teaching various ??????????. It is regrettable that you > have attacked the work he does with the Murty Library, to make known the > wonder that is India. > > Sincerely, > Dominik Wujastyk > > -- > Professor Dominik Wujastyk* > Singhmar Chair in Classical Indian Society and Polity > Department of History and Classics > > University of Alberta, Canada > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > From: Dominik Wujastyk > Date: 27 February 2016 at 08:52 > Subject: Against the petition against Prof. Pollock > To: Indology > > > I discovered yesterday that there exists a petition > > launched by Prof. K. Ramasubramanian that asks for Prof. Sheldon Pollock to > be removed from his editorial leadership role with the Murty Library. > > The argument against Pollock is based on the idea that, "he has deep > antipathy towards many of the ideals and values cherished and practiced in > our civilization." The most prominent evidence given to support this > assertion is a quotation from a 2012 lecture that Prof. Pollock gave at the > South Asia Institute in Heidelberg, titled, "What is South Asian Knowledge > Good For?" Prof. Ramasubramanian states that Prof. Pollock "echoes the > views of Macaulay and Max Weber that the shastras generated in India serve > no contemporary purpose except for the study of how Indians express > themselves." Unfortunately, Prof. Ramasubramanian has not correctly > understood these passages in Prof. Pollock's paper, nor the meaning of the > 2012 lecture as a whole. > > Prof. Pollock cites Macaulay and Weber as ????????? positions to his own, > opposite view. Prof. Pollock presents Macaulay and Weber as examples of > the worst kind of misunderstanding of Indian wisdom. He does this in order > to build his own argument that there is a deeper knowledge in India than > Macaualy or Weber realized, the knowledge that is the "South Asian > Knowledge" of his title. This is the knowledge of the Indian ??????????, > the Indian knowledge systems that Prof. Pollock is defending. > > Prof. Ramasubramanian then cites a passage in which Prof. Pollock says, > > Are there any decision makers, as they refer to themselves, at > universities and foundations who would not agree that, in the cognitive > sweepstakes of human history, Western knowledge has won and South Asian > knowledge has lost? ...That, accordingly, the South Asian knowledge South > Asians themselves have produced can no longer be held to have any > significant consequences for the future of the human species? > > In this passage, Prof. Pollock is *criticising* the administrators of > western universities who do not give proper recognition and value to Indian > knowledge systems, and only view India as a place to make money or to make > practical applications of knowledge systems of the West. Again, this is > the ?????????. Prof. Pollock's central argument is that the special, > unique knowledge systems developed in India, mainly recorded in Sanskrit, > are of great value, and that this fact is not recognized by "universities > and foundations" who, like Macauley and Weber, think that Indian knowledge > systems have been superseded by Western ones. Prof. Pollock's point of > view is that the ?????????? , representing South Asian Knowledge, are > precious, worth studying, and still have much to offer modern cultural > life. On pages six and seven of his lecture, he gives the examples of > ??????? and the theory of ?? as forms of knowledge that were developed to a > uniquely high degree in early India, and that still have the power to > enrich thought today. On the subsequent pages, he begins to make the even > more difficult argument for finding modern value in even more > internally-oriented Indian sciences such as ???????, ??????? and > ????????????. > > The larger point of Prof. Pollock's article is that the institutions of > higher education in America and elsewhere have found it difficult over the > last fifty years or more to develop institutional structures to support the > study of *Indian* knowledge systems, and that the South Asia Institute in > Heidelberg is a model of success in allowing those who develop knowledge *about > *India to work in harmony alongside those who deepen their appreciation > of the knowledge that was developed *by *India. > > It would be possible to make similar arguments for the other evidence > referred to by Prof. Ramasubramanian, e.g., Prof. Pollock's 1985 paper on > the character and importance of ??????????, of South Asian knowledge > systems. In that paper, Prof. Pollock says that, "Classical Indian > civilization, however, offers what may be the most exquisite expression of > the centrality of rule-governance in human behavior" and that ??stra is "a > monumental, in some cases unparalleled, intellectual accomplishment in its > own right." One could discuss this paper further. But to cite it as an > example of a criticism of India is the opposite of the truth. > > It is regrettable that Prof. Ramasubramanian has misunderstood Prof. > Pollock's views by 180 degrees. Prof. Pollock is a champion for the same > values of Indian culture as Prof. Ramasubramanian. That is why Prof. > Pollock devised and brought into being the Murty Classical Library. > > Many people have signed Prof. Ramasubramanian's petition, presumably > without having read Prof. Pollock's work for themselves, or having failed > to undestand it. The damage done by this misunderstanding is likely to > last a long time, and hamper the efforts of Prof. Pollock and others who > seek to bring the glory and subtlety of ancient Indian knowledge to the > attention of the modern world. > > -- > Professor Dominik Wujastyk* > Singhmar Chair in Classical Indian Society and Polity > Department of History and Classics > > University of Alberta, Canada ----- End forwarded message ----- -- Dr. Stefan Baums Institute for Indian and Tibetan Studies Ludwig Maximilian University of Munich From drdhaval2785 at gmail.com Fri Mar 4 01:28:19 2016 From: drdhaval2785 at gmail.com (dhaval patel) Date: Fri, 04 Mar 16 06:58:19 +0530 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Tattvabodhini sansknet files Message-ID: Respected scholars, I am looking for tattvabodhini commentary on pAda 6.2 digitized by sansknet project. I have rest of the commentary. This pAda is missing. If someone has an older copy of this pAda downloaded from sansknet site, please share it. It would make the commentary complete. Thanks -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From wujastyk at gmail.com Fri Mar 4 01:38:20 2016 From: wujastyk at gmail.com (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Thu, 03 Mar 16 18:38:20 -0700 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Post-editing a petition at Change.org Message-ID: Dear colleagues, Quite apart from the substantive issues? being discussed relating to the Murty series editorship, I was puzzled by the procedural rules at Change.org. After about four thousand people had signed the present petition, the name of the person who had started the petition was changed, and the text of the petition itself was altered. It surprised me that this was possible according to the Change.org rules. Surely it means that the first four thousand people had signed a somewhat different petition than the one we see today, to which their names are still attached. The petition hasn't changed *that* much, so this isn't a very important point in the present case. But it's not hard to imagine more extreme examples. What if the petitioners changed the petiton in subtle but really critical ways? A whole bunch of people could find their names attached to something they really wouldn't have wished to support. I wrote to Change.org to ask about this. Their answer is below. Basically, they're saying, anyone can do anything, and it's up to the signatories to watch out that the petition hasn't altered while they weren't looking. They can withdraw if they don't like the alterations to the petition. Caveat emptor. This policy quite strongly diminishes my trust in the change.org platform. Best, Dominik Wujastyk ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Change.org Help Center (Change.org Help Center) Date: 1 March 2016 at 11:29 Subject: [Change.org Help Center] Re: post-editing a petition To: Wujastyk *?C?* *hange.org Help Center* (Change.org Help Center) Mar 1, 12:29 PM Hello Dominik, Thank you for getting back to me. I'm sorry if I was not clear in my response. You question was about attachment of supporters signatures to a difference statement by way of changing petition text from it's original version. Change.org merely provides a free platform to the users to create petitions and bring change in their communities and around the world. While doing so, we do not fact-check or endorse any of the campaigns on our site. It's up to the supporters to evaluate a petition and support worthy causes and follow all supported petitions. Supporters are at liberty to withdraw their support at any stage if they see a deviation in the petition's objectives Users also have the ability to flag any content as inappropriate by selecting an appropriate category on the petition page. Once a content is flagged inappropriate, our compliance team audits the contents and take necessary action, including taking down the petition, if found in violation of our Terms of Services or Community Guidelines. Feel free to contact us if you have any other concerns or questions. Best wishes, Muhammad Change.org Help Center -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From nmisra at gmail.com Fri Mar 4 05:32:08 2016 From: nmisra at gmail.com (Nityanand Misra) Date: Fri, 04 Mar 16 11:02:08 +0530 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Against the petition against Prof. Pollock In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Dear Prof. Williams, There is no anti-sedition ?law? in the Indian constitution. Rather, there is a ?section? (Section 124A) in the ?Indian Penal Code? (IPC). The IPC is different from the Constitution of India. The Concurrent List (List III in the seventh schedule) in the Constitution of India specifies that the matters included in the Indian Penal Code and the Code of Criminal Procedure are part of the Criminal law and Criminal procedure, respectively. You are correct in saying that the section 124A of the IPC does not cover hate speech. But there are other sections which do cover hate speech, specifically sections 153A, 153B, and 295A of the IPC. Therefore, India does not need any new laws on hate speech. You may please refer the following links: Section 153A: http://indiankanoon.org/doc/345634/ Section 153B: http://indiankanoon.org/doc/771276/ Section 295A: http://indiankanoon.org/doc/1803184/ You may also refer the Wikipedia article https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hate_speech_laws_in_India These sections have existed for a long time and neither half of the BJP (including current PM) nor half of RSS are in jail. Nobody has prevented the opponents of RSS and BJP (and there are many in India) to invoke these sections against RSS and BJP members including the current Prime Minister. We have to keep in mind the principal of criminal jurisprudence which applies in India: an accused is to be considered innocent until proven guilty. Mere accusations or opinions are not sufficient. Regarding the point that for Afzal Guru there was ?no evidence that [he] belonged to [sic] any terrorist group [sic] or organization,? (the exact words were ?there is no evidence that he is a member of a terrorist gang or a terrorist organization?), this has to be read in the context of the court ruling. The text of the full judgement is here: http://indiankanoon.org/doc/1769219/ What the Supreme Court of India said was that Guru could not be convicted under Section 3(5) of POTA (which is here: http://indiankanoon.org/doc/1157621/) as there was no evidence outside the confessional statement that Guru was a member of a terrorist gang or a terrorist organization. But the Supreme Court of India did find him guilty under other sections of the IPC including section 120B (criminal conspiracy, read here: http://indiankanoon.org/doc/1897847/) and section 302 (murder, read here: http://indiankanoon.org/doc/1560742/). Here is the relevant portion from the judgement Quote The conviction under Section 3(2) of POTA is set aside. The conviction under Section 3(5) of POTA is also set aside because there is no evidence that he is a member of a terrorist gang or a terrorist organization, once the confessional statement is excluded. Incidentally, we may mention that even going by confessional statement, it is doubtful whether the membership of a terrorist gang or organization is established. We shall then consider whether the conviction of Afzal under Section 120B read with Section 302 IPC is justified. The High Court upheld the conviction and gave death sentence to the two appellants under this Section. We are of the view that the conviction and sentence on this count is in accordance with law. Unquote Unless somebody knows the facts of the case and Indian law better than the Supreme Court of India, there is no reason to consider their opinion above the final judgement of the Supreme Court of India. With kind regards, Nityanand On Mar 3, 2016 10:16 PM, "Tyler Williams" wrote: > To spare everyone an extended polemic, I will simply say for the moment > that the 'anti-sedition' law of the Indian constitution is adopted directly > from colonial law. It *does not* address 'hate speech', i.e. the > incitement of individuals or groups to commit violence against the > country's citizens. (This would indeed be a good thing, and if there were > such a law, then half of the BJP and RSS, including the current Prime > Minister Narendra Modi, would be in jail!) > > However, the anti-sedition law is vaguely worded and targeted against > 'anti-national' activities, i.e. inciting action against the 'nation', > whatever that may be construed as. (This was used against freedom fighters > during the anti-colonial struggle.) The judgement in Singhal vs. Union of > India has only made the language more vague. The current government is > using the statute in a novel way, using it to ban a variety of speech and > other freedoms (like assembly) that are typically protected under law. > Interpreted openly, it could be (and is being used to) prohibit forms of > 'symbolic' violence or 'destabilization', like publishing maps of Kashmir > not okayed by the Indian government, to chant the names of those executed > by the Indian state, etc. > > A law prohibiting hate speech would be most welcome-- then citizens could > then address the inciting rhetoric of many politicians and 'activists' > against women, Dalits, religious minorities, and the LGBT community (see > Martha Nussbaum's upcoming book on just this subject). > > And, for what its worth, half of those alleged 'slogans' quoted in the > judge's report have recently been found to have been invented, manipulated, > or incited by members of the right-wing AVBP at the event, or by political > and media persons after the event. They reflect Malhotra's and other's > misrepresentation of Pollock and non-Indian scholar's comments in an effort > to whip up existential fears and identity politics for narrow political > gains. > > Perhaps others can weigh in. In any case, I am not comfortable with this > one JNU student being asked to pay for the supposed intellectual 'disease' > of the students of his university, just as I am not comfortable with the > idea that a man like Afzal Guru, though "no evidence that [he] belonged to > any terrorist group or organization", should be executed for the purpose of > "satisfying the collective conscience." (The words are taken from the > court's execution order itself.) > > Best, > TWW > > > On Thu, Mar 3, 2016 at 5:02 AM, Nityanand Misra wrote: > >> Dear list >> >> Apropos Prof. Tyler Williams' first point, the judgement mentions on page >> 6 that there were thirty slogans quoted in pages 3 to 5 of the status >> report filed by the State. I do not have the status report, but Justice >> Rani mentions on page 11 of her judgement seven of these slogans, which I >> reproduce below along with my translations. The slogans eulogize Afzal Guru >> (convicted by Indian courts for plotting a terrorist attack on the Indian >> parliament), warn that India will be split into pieces, and call for >> achieving freedom by the use of guns. >> >> 1. AFZAL GURU MAQBOOL BHATT JINDABAD. >> English: Long live Afzal Guru and Maqbool Bhatt. >> >> 2. BHARAT KI BARBADI TAK JUNG RAHEGI JUNG RAHEGI >> English: The battle will go on and on till India is destroyed. >> >> 3. GO INDIA GO BACK >> English: No translation needed. >> >> 4. INDIAN ARMY MURDABAD >> English: Death to Indian Army. >> >> 5. BHARAT TERE TUKKDE HONGE? INSHAALLAHA INSHAALLAHA >> English: India, you will be split in pieces, Allah willing, Allah willing. >> >> 6. AFZAL KI HATYA NAHI SAHENGE NAHI SAHENGE >> English: We will not tolerate the murder of Afzal Guru. >> >> 7. BANDOOK KI DUM PE LENGE AAZADI. >> English: We will achieve freedom by the [use of] guns. >> >> The court ruling does not specify what exactly is anti-national here, but >> I think it is pretty obvious that glorification of the mastermind of the >> attack on Indian Parliament, calls for waging a battle till India is >> destroyed or achieving freedom by violence are anti-India. >> >> In India, freedom of speech and expression is not absolute. As per clause >> (2) of article 19 of the Indian Constitution (cited in Justice Rani's >> judgement), existing laws can operate and new laws can be made to place >> reasonable restrictions on the freedom of speech and expression ?in the >> interests of the sovereignty and integrity of India, the security of the >> State, friendly relations with foreign States, public order, decency or >> morality or in relation to contempt of court, defamation or incitement to >> an offence.? >> >> The slogans above need to be seen in this important context. Do they >> qualify as sedition? I think so, but the Indian courts will rule. We will >> need to see how they apply section 124A of the Indian Penal Code and the >> Supreme Court ruling in the case of Kedar Nath Singh vs State Of Bihar >> (1962 AIR 955, 1962 SCR Supl. 2 769) in this case. The 1962 ruling >> (available here: http://indiankanoon.org/doc/111867/) interpreted 124A >> to be applicable to activities involving ?incitement to violence or >> intention/tendency to create public disorder or disturbance of law and >> order/public peace.? >> >> I disagree with the observations made by Prof. Tyler Williams in his >> points (2) to (4), and especially the term repressive and totalitarian >> thought for a judgement by an Indian court. >> >> For point (2), I believe the point being made is that the Indian armed >> forces ensure a safe environment. The word democracy is not used by the >> Judge in the statement. >> >> For point (3), the previous paragraph is relevant: ?The thoughts >> reflected in the slogans raised by some of the students of JNU who >> organized and participated in that programme cannot be claimed to be >> protected as fundamental right to freedom of speech and expression. I >> consider this as a kind of infection from which such students are suffering >> which needs to be controlled/cured before it becomes an epidemic.? The >> judgement specifically refers to the thoughts reflected in some specific >> slogans on JNU as an ?infection? and not to any expression speech >> questioning the government. I do not think this is fascist language or >> pogrom logic. The Indian government is questioned every day in both the >> Lok Sabha and the Rajya Sabha the ongoing session of the parliament, and >> the court ruling certainly does not apply to this. >> >> For point (4), curbing of what the court calls anti-national activity is >> not the same as policing all thought on campus. Criticism of the elected >> government is not an anti-national activity, it happens all the time in >> India and nobody gets charged with sedition for the same. >> >> Thanks, Nityanand >> On Mar 3, 2016 11:30 AM, "Tyler Williams" >> wrote: >> >>> Dear colleagues, >>> >>> I must apologize in advance-- I would like to keep the discussion on a >>> positive note, and concisely explore ways that we can continue to work >>> together to not only protect intellectual freedoms but also to make the >>> public more aware of the good work being done by Indian and non-Indian >>> Indologists (many of you are already doing this important work that helps >>> to avoid the kind of under-informed positions that are gaining currency). >>> I also greatly appreciate the insights shared by Dominik, Ananya, Matthew, >>> Anandavardhanan, Andrew and numerous others. >>> >>> Yet I find the suggestion that "The full judgement of Pratibha Rani >>> should likewise be read by all those who signed the solidarity statement on >>> JNU" because "they can learn a lesson or two from it," a bit troubling. I >>> agree that we should all read the statement-- it is a clear marker of how >>> imperiled free speech and intellectual freedom at Indian universities are >>> at the present moment. However, the suggestion that scholars like Sheldon >>> Pollock, myself, and many of you who signed the petition in support of JNU >>> should 'learn' from Justice Rani's statement is deeply troubling. Among >>> the many problematic things Justice Rani has written, the following stand >>> out: >>> >>> 1. "The thoughts reflected in the slogans raised by some of the >>> students of JNU who organized and participated in that programme cannot be >>> claimed to be protected as fundamental right to freedom of speech and >>> expression. I consider this as a kind of infection from which such students >>> are suffering which needs to be controlled/cured before it becomes an >>> epidemic." Neither does the Justice Rani specify exactly or convincingly >>> what is 'anti-national' in the students' thought and speech, nor does she >>> explain why it is anti-national. >>> >>> 2. "Suffice it to note that such persons enjoy the freedom to raise such >>> slogans in the comfort of University Campus but without realising that they >>> are in this safe environment because our forces are there at the battle >>> field situated at the highest altitude of the world where even the oxygen >>> is so scarce that those who are shouting anti-national slogans holding >>> posters of Afzal Guru and Maqbool Bhatt close to their chest honoring their >>> martyrdom, may not be even able to withstand those conditions for an hour >>> even." This bizarrely-worded argument referencing Siachen glacier suggests >>> that the exercise of military power ensures democracy, *not the actual >>> exercise of democratic rights like the right to free speech.* >>> >>> 3. "Whenever some infection is spread in a limb, effort is made to cure >>> the same by giving antibiotics orally and if that does not work, by >>> following second line of treatment. Sometimes it may require surgical >>> intervention also. However, if the infection results in infecting the limb >>> to the extent that it becomes gangrene, amputation is the only treatment." >>> This reference to the aforementioned 'epidemic' is a clear and chilling >>> threat made to those who dare to question the government, echoing the >>> language of fascist regimes and pogrom logic. >>> >>> 4. Justice Rani states that she grants bail to the jailed president of >>> the JNU Students Union on the condition that "as President of JNU Students >>> Union, he will make all efforts within his power to control anti-national >>> activities in the campus" and elsewhere suggests that JNU faculty and >>> administrators should curb anti-national thought on campus. This amounts >>> to nothing less than an order to police thought on the university campus >>> and a threat that failure to do so will result in the cancelation of bail. >>> >>> Since this email is already lengthy, I will simply invite colleagues to >>> read the document, but do wish to register my serious concern that this >>> appears to be a step backward, not forward, in securing intellectual and >>> political freedoms in the academy. Let's please keep the conversation >>> positive and moving forward, but we should also not let it go unremarked >>> when it is suggested that we who have the temerity to speak up for academic >>> freedom should 'learn from' repressive and totalitarian thought. >>> >>> Respectfully, >>> >>> Tyler Williams >>> Assistant Professor >>> University of Chicago >>> >>> >>> >>> On Wed, Mar 2, 2016 at 9:40 PM, Nityanand Misra >>> wrote: >>> >>>> Dear list members >>>> >>>> Late last night, Mr. Rohan Murty stated to the Economic Times that >>>> Prof. Sheldon Pollock will stay on the board of MCLI for ?many years to >>>> come?.[1] With this, the short-lived controversy is over and the chapter is >>>> closed, and it is time for everybody to move on. While I do not personally >>>> agree with one statement of Mr. Murty ("there aren't more scholars in India >>>> capable of carrying out such translations from ancient literature"), I >>>> respect his decision and am nobody to question it. Mr. Murty's comments >>>> should be read by all petitioners, they can learn a lesson or two from >>>> them. >>>> >>>> Concidentally, yesterday evening Justice Pratibha Rani granted a >>>> six-month interim bail to JNU student Kanhaiya Kumar with some conditions >>>> (he will not participate actively or passively in ... and make all efforts >>>> within his power to control ... anti-national activities).[2] The full >>>> judgement of Pratibha Rani should likewise be read by all those who signed >>>> the solidarity statement on JNU, they can learn a lesson or two from it. >>>> >>>> [1] Divya Shekhar and Indulekha Aravind (March 3 2016), Rohan Murty >>>> says American Indologist Sheldon Pollock to stay, Economic Times, URL: >>>> http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/articleshow/51231553.cms >>>> >>>> [2] Justice Praibha Rani (March 2 2016), Kanhaiya Kumar versus the >>>> State of NCT of Delhi, Delhi High Coury, URL: >>>> http://lobis.nic.in/ddir/dhc/PRA/judgement/02-03-2016/PRA02032016CRLW5582016.pdf >>>> On Mar 1, 2016 2:04 PM, "Caren Dreyer" wrote: >>>> >>>>> Dear all, isnt it time for an alphabetical blacklist to be regularly >>>>> updated in order not to invite the wrong persons financed by public funds >>>>> caren dreyer >>>>> >>>>> Sent from my phone. >>>>> >>>>> On 01 Mar 2016, at 13:31, Walter Slaje wrote: >>>>> >>>>> ? ? >>>>> Dear List, >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> it might be of some relevance to the community of Indologists that >>>>>> among the prominent signatories of the Pollock removal petition Prof. >>>>>> V. Kutumba Sastry ranks fifth on top of the list: >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> https://www.change.org/p/mr-n-r-narayana-murthy-and-mr-rohan-narayan-murty-removal-of-prof-sheldon-pollock-as-mentor-and-chief-editor-of-murty-classical-library >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> That Prof. Kutumba Sastry signed this petition in his capacity of >>>>>> the ?President, International Association of Sanskrit Studies? >>>>>> (IASS), has meanwhile attracted the attention of also the media, who >>>>>> specifically single out his name and function: >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> http://indianexpress.com/article/india/india-news-india/murty-library-editor-petition-wants-us-scholar-removed-cites-jnu-remarks/ >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> http://www.huffingtonpost.in/2016/03/01/sheldon-pollock-murty-lib_n_9345928.html >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> In terms of Indological research, it is perhaps of no little >>>>>> significance that the President of the IASS - a leading organization >>>>>> carrying ?International? as part of their name and arranging the "World >>>>>> Sanskrit Conference" on a regular basis - publicly supports the text of the >>>>>> debated petition in full and demands, among others, ?Make in India? ethics >>>>>> and ?Swadeshi Indology? in contexts of research and academic publications >>>>>> guidelines. Trying to be ?international? and ?swadeshi? at the same time >>>>>> clearly equals a contradiction in terms. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> The IASS ought to state their position in this matter by clarifying >>>>>> if, in promoting nationalist ideas of Indological research, their president >>>>>> is acting on their behalf: >>>>>> >>>>>> http://www.sanskritassociation.org/board-members.php >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Thanks and regards, >>>>>> >>>>>> WS >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> ----------------------------- >>>>> Prof. Dr. Walter Slaje >>>>> Hermann-L?ns-Str. 1 >>>>> D-99425 Weimar >>>>> Deutschland >>>>> >>>>> Ego ex animi mei sententia spondeo ac polliceor >>>>> studia humanitatis impigro labore culturum et provecturum >>>>> non sordidi lucri causa nec ad vanam captandam gloriam, >>>>> sed quo magis veritas propagetur et lux eius, qua salus >>>>> humani generis continetur, clarius effulgeat. >>>>> Vindobonae, die XXI. mensis Novembris MCMLXXXIII. ? >>>>> >>>>>> ? >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> INDOLOGY mailing list >>>>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info >>>>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing >>>>> committee) >>>>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options >>>>> or unsubscribe) >>>>> >>>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> INDOLOGY mailing list >>>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info >>>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing >>>> committee) >>>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options >>>> or unsubscribe) >>>> >>> >>> > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mmdesh at umich.edu Fri Mar 4 21:58:34 2016 From: mmdesh at umich.edu (Madhav Deshpande) Date: Fri, 04 Mar 16 16:58:34 -0500 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Link to download an article of mine Message-ID: Recently, an article of mine ["Appayya D?k?ita and the Lineage of Bha??oji D?k?ita"] appeared in the Journal of Indian Philosophy, 44(1), 115-124). The journal allows up to 50 downloads of free off-prints and the download link will remain alive for the next four weeks. If anyone is interested, please download the article using the link below. Here is the link to download the offprint of this journal article: Download Your e-Offprint (PDF file) http://www.springer.com/home?SGWID=0-0-1003-0-0&aqId=2690004&download=1&checkval=ecb97479157bcd084ab8150eb300ad52 -- Madhav M. Deshpande Professor of Sanskrit and Linguistics Department of Asian Languages and Cultures 202 South Thayer Street, Suite 6111 The University of Michigan Ann Arbor, MI 48104-1608, USA -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jemhouben at gmail.com Sat Mar 5 00:12:32 2016 From: jemhouben at gmail.com (Jan E.M. Houben) Date: Sat, 05 Mar 16 01:12:32 +0100 Subject: [INDOLOGY] In the meantime astrophysicists ... was: Re: Against the petition against Prof. Pollock Message-ID: The extent to which philology is an exact science depends mainly on the philologists themselves. Since the disagreement depends centrally on two diametrically opposed readings of one and the same text it will forever be easy to decide whether the proposed interpretation was *correct* or not (and whether or not signatories have joined an *andhaparampar?*), independent of the number of adherents. In the meantime astrophysicists, dealing with problems a little more complicated than understanding a few pages in simple english, gave a beautiful example of international cooperation and solidarity -- clearly with the aim of obtaining further funding in their respective countries ... see this article co-signed by ca. 1000 (!) professional researchers representing 133 different institutions in many different countries: http://iopscience.iop.org/article/10.3847/2041-8205/818/2/L22. Better to turn around half-way than to err completely: it may still be possible to withdraw one's signature if it was put without careful consideration: http://help.change.org/hc/en-us/articles/206135547-Remove-signature-from-petition Jan Houben NB the finally unsuccesful petition was *launched* by computer scientist Ganesh Ramakrishnan of IIT Bombay, neither a sanskritist nor a philologist. *Jan E.M. HOUBEN* Directeur d??tudes Sources et histoire de la tradition sanskrite *?cole Pratique des Hautes ?tudes* *Sciences historiques et philologiques * 54, rue Saint-Jacques CS 20525 ? 75005 Paris johannes.houben at ephe.sorbonne.fr https://ephe-sorbonne.academia.edu/JanEMHouben www.ephe.fr On 27 February 2016 at 16:52, Dominik Wujastyk wrote: > I discovered yesterday that there exists a petition > > launched by Prof. K. Ramasubramanian that asks for Prof. Sheldon Pollock to > be removed from his editorial leadership role with the Murty Library. > > The argument against Pollock is based on the idea that, "he has deep > antipathy towards many of the ideals and values cherished and practiced in > our civilization." The most prominent evidence given to support this > assertion is a quotation from a 2012 lecture that Prof. Pollock gave at the > South Asia Institute in Heidelberg, titled, "What is South Asian Knowledge > Good For?" Prof. Ramasubramanian states that Prof. Pollock "echoes the > views of Macaulay and Max Weber that the shastras generated in India serve > no contemporary purpose except for the study of how Indians express > themselves." Unfortunately, Prof. Ramasubramanian has not correctly > understood these passages in Prof. Pollock's paper, nor the meaning of the > 2012 lecture as a whole. > > Prof. Pollock cites Macaulay and Weber as ????????? positions to his own, > opposite view. Prof. Pollock presents Macaulay and Weber as examples of > the worst kind of misunderstanding of Indian wisdom. He does this in order > to build his own argument that there is a deeper knowledge in India than > Macaualy or Weber realized, the knowledge that is the "South Asian > Knowledge" of his title. This is the knowledge of the Indian ??????????, > the Indian knowledge systems that Prof. Pollock is defending. > > Prof. Ramasubramanian then cites a passage in which Prof. Pollock says, > > Are there any decision makers, as they refer to themselves, at > universities and foundations who would not agree that, in the cognitive > sweepstakes of human history, Western knowledge has won and South Asian > knowledge has lost? ...That, accordingly, the South Asian knowledge South > Asians themselves have produced can no longer be held to have any > significant consequences for the future of the human species? > > In this passage, Prof. Pollock is *criticising* the administrators of > western universities who do not give proper recognition and value to Indian > knowledge systems, and only view India as a place to make money or to make > practical applications of knowledge systems of the West. Again, this is > the ?????????. Prof. Pollock's central argument is that the special, > unique knowledge systems developed in India, mainly recorded in Sanskrit, > are of great value, and that this fact is not recognized by "universities > and foundations" who, like Macauley and Weber, think that Indian knowledge > systems have been superseded by Western ones. Prof. Pollock's point of > view is that the ?????????? , representing South Asian Knowledge, are > precious, worth studying, and still have much to offer modern cultural > life. On pages six and seven of his lecture, he gives the examples of > ??????? and the theory of ?? as forms of knowledge that were developed to a > uniquely high degree in early India, and that still have the power to > enrich thought today. On the subsequent pages, he begins to make the even > more difficult argument for finding modern value in even more > internally-oriented Indian sciences such as ???????, ??????? and > ????????????. > > The larger point of Prof. Pollock's article is that the institutions of > higher education in America and elsewhere have found it difficult over the > last fifty years or more to develop institutional structures to support the > study of *Indian* knowledge systems, and that the South Asia Institute in > Heidelberg is a model of success in allowing those who develop knowledge *about > *India to work in harmony alongside those who deepen their appreciation > of the knowledge that was developed *by *India. > > It would be possible to make similar arguments for the other evidence > referred to by Prof. Ramasubramanian, e.g., Prof. Pollock's 1985 paper on > the character and importance of ??????????, of South Asian knowledge > systems. In that paper, Prof. Pollock says that, "Classical Indian > civilization, however, offers what may be the most exquisite expression of > the centrality of rule-governance in human behavior" and that ??stra is "a > monumental, in some cases unparalleled, intellectual accomplishment in its > own right." One could discuss this paper further. But to cite it as an > example of a criticism of India is the opposite of the truth. > > It is regrettable that Prof. Ramasubramanian has misunderstood Prof. > Pollock's views by 180 degrees. Prof. Pollock is a champion for the same > values of Indian culture as Prof. Ramasubramanian. That is why Prof. > Pollock devised and brought into being the Murty Classical Library. > > Many people have signed Prof. Ramasubramanian's petition, presumably > without having read Prof. Pollock's work for themselves, or having failed > to undestand it. The damage done by this misunderstanding is likely to > last a long time, and hamper the efforts of Prof. Pollock and others who > seek to bring the glory and subtlety of ancient Indian knowledge to the > attention of the modern world. > > -- > Professor Dominik Wujastyk* > Singhmar Chair in Classical Indian Society and Polity > Department of History and Classics > > University of Alberta, Canada > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing > committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or > unsubscribe) > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From michaels at asia-europe.uni-heidelberg.de Sat Mar 5 08:21:35 2016 From: michaels at asia-europe.uni-heidelberg.de (Michaels, Axel) Date: Sat, 05 Mar 16 08:21:35 +0000 Subject: [INDOLOGY] "Petition against Sheldon Pollock": response by members and friends of the South Asia Institute Heidelberg Message-ID: Declaration by members and friends of the South Asia Institute, Heidelberg University The South Asia Institute (SAI) at Heidelberg University and its friends are puzzled by the fact that the lecture "What is South Asian Knowledge Good For?" delivered by Professor Sheldon Pollock at the celebration of its 50th anniversary on May 8, 2012, has resulted in a petition (https://www.change.org/p/mr-n-r-narayana-murthy-and-mr-rohan-narayan-murty-removal-of-prof-sheldon-pollock-as-mentor-and-chief-editor-of-murty-classical-library), initiated by Professor Ganesh Ramakrishnan from IIT Bombay, to remove Prof. Pollock from the General Editorship of the Murty Classical Library of India published by Harvard University Press (http://www.murtylibrary.com/). Following the motto of Heidelberg University (semper apertus, "always open"), the SAI has always been a place of religious and political tolerance, freedom of speech and diversity of intellectual and methodological approaches. It would never have tolerated a key note that would contradict these principles, and in fact - as is clearly evident from the text of the lecture (http://crossasia-repository.ub.uni-heidelberg.de/3183/) - Professor Pollock, in his lecture, highlighted the importance and value of Indian traditions and knowledge systems - quite the opposite of what is claimed by the authors of the petition. We, the undersigned, condemn all ad hominem attacks on bona fide scholars and students as well as any attempt to limit academic freedom and the freedom of speech on campuses. We are shocked by the deliberate misrepresentation of Prof. Pollock's message. We regard it as our duty, as intellectuals and as citizens, to work cooperatively with our Indian colleagues toward better understandings of each other, of our pasts and our present. Such improved understanding requires continual rethinking and, if necessary, revision of existing theories, along with a mutual respect for religious, philosophical, political and social ideas. Prof. Christiane Brosius, Excellence Cluster "Asia and Europe in a Global Context", Heidelberg University Prof. Joerg Gengnagel, South Asia Institute, Heidelberg University Dr. Martin Gieselmann, South Asia Institute, Heidelberg University Prof. Niels Gutschow, South Asia Institute, Heidelberg University Prof. Hans Harder, South Asia Institute, Heidelberg University Prof. Jens-Uwe Hartmann, Ludwig-Maximilians-Universitaet Munich Prof. Madeleine Herren-Oesch, Institute for European Global Studies, Basel University Prof. Ute H?sken, Oslo University Prof. Monica Juneja, Excellence Cluster "Asia and Europe in a Global Context", Heidelberg University Prof. Birgit Kellner, Austrian Academy of Sciences, Vienna Prof. Hermann Kreutzmann, Freie Universitaet Berlin Prof. Hermann Kulke, Kiel University Prof. Joachim Kurtz, Excellence Cluster "Asia and Europe in a Global Context", Heidelberg University Prof. Joseph Maran, Excellence Cluster "Asia and Europe in a Global Context", Heidelberg University Prof. Axel Michaels, South Asia Institute, Heidelberg University Prof. Rahul Mukherji, National University of Singapore Prof. Marcus N?sser, South Asia Institute, Heidelberg University Prof. Sumathi Ramaswamy, Duke University Prof. William S. Sax, South Asia Institute, Heidelberg University Prof. Ingo Strauch, Lausanne University p.s. Colleagues who would also like to undersign this declaration should contact me (Axel Michaels). We will publish an updated version on the homepage of the SAI. Please feel free to widely share this declaration. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From michaels at asia-europe.uni-heidelberg.de Sat Mar 5 09:02:29 2016 From: michaels at asia-europe.uni-heidelberg.de (Michaels, Axel) Date: Sat, 05 Mar 16 09:02:29 +0000 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Petition against Pollock: revision Message-ID: Dear all, I was just informed, that due to massive protest the petition has meanwhile been changed and the SAI is not mentioned anymore. For the original version, see http://www.newsgram.com/132-indian-academicians-call-for-removal-of-sheldon-pollock-as-general-editor-of-murthy-classical-library/. The rest of our declaration remains the same and true. Here is its latest version of with more signatories: The South Asia Institute (SAI) at Heidelberg University and its friends are puzzled by the fact that the lecture "What is South Asian Knowledge Good For?" delivered by Professor Sheldon Pollock at the celebration of its 50th anniversary on May 8, 2012, has resulted in a petition (https://www.change.org/p/mr-n-r-narayana-murthy-and-mr-rohan-narayan-murty-removal-of-prof-sheldon-pollock-as-mentor-and-chief-editor-of-murty-classical-library[1]), initiated by Professor Ganesh Ramakrishnan from IIT Bombay, to remove him from the General Editorship of the Murty Classical Library of India published by Harvard University Press (http://www.murtylibrary.com/). Following the motto of Heidelberg University (semper apertus, "always open"), the SAI has always been a place of religious and political tolerance, freedom of speech and diversity of intellectual and methodological approaches. It would never have tolerated a key note that would contradict these principles, and in fact - as is clearly evident from the text of the lecture (http://crossasia-repository.ub.uni-heidelberg.de/3183/) - Professor Pollock, in his lecture, highlighted the importance and value of Indian traditions and knowledge systems - quite the opposite of what is claimed by the authors of the petition. We, the undersigned, condemn all ad hominem attacks on bona fide scholars and students as well as any attempt to limit academic freedom and the freedom of speech on campuses. We are shocked by the deliberate misrepresentation of Prof. Pollock's message. We regard it as our duty, as intellectuals and as citizens, to work cooperatively with our Indian colleagues toward better understandings of each other, of our pasts and our present. Such improved understanding requires continual rethinking and, if necessary, revision of existing theories, along with a mutual respect for religious, philosophical, political and social ideas. Prof. Christiane Brosius, Excellence Cluster "Asia and Europe in a Global Context", Heidelberg University Prof. G?rard Fussmann, Coll?ge de France, Paris Prof. Joerg Gengnagel, South Asia Institute, Heidelberg University Dr. Martin Gieselmann, South Asia Institute, Heidelberg University Prof. Niels Gutschow, South Asia Institute, Heidelberg University Prof. Hans Harder, South Asia Institute, Heidelberg University Prof. Jens-Uwe Hartmann, Ludwig-Maximilians-Universit?t Munich Prof. Madeleine Herren-Oesch, Institute for European Global Studies, Basel University Prof. Ute H?sken, Oslo University Prof. Monica Juneja, Excellence Cluster "Asia and Europe in a Global Context", Heidelberg University Dr. Agathe Keller, CNRS-Universit? Paris Diderot, France Prof. Birgit Kellner, Austrian Academy of Sciences, Vienna Prof. Hans Martin Kr?mer, Institut of Japanese Studies, Heidelberg University Prof. Hermann Kreutzmann, Freie Universit?t Berlin Prof. Hermann Kulke, Kiel University Prof. Joachim Kurtz, Excellence Cluster "Asia and Europe in a Global Context", Heidelberg University Prof. Thomas Maissen, Deutsches Historisches Institut / Institut historique allemand, Paris Prof. Joseph Maran, Excellence Cluster "Asia and Europe in a Global Context", Heidelberg University Prof. Axel Michaels, South Asia Institute, Heidelberg University Prof. Rahul Mukherji, National University of Singapore Prof. Marcus N?sser, South Asia Institute, Heidelberg University Prof. Sumathi Ramaswamy, Duke University Oyndrila Sarkar, Excellence Cluster "Asia and Europe in a Global Context", Heidelberg University Prof. William S. Sax, South Asia Institute, Heidelberg University Prof. Ingo Strauch, Lausanne University ________________________________ [1] Due to massive protest, the petition has meanwhile been changed and the SAI is not mentioned anymore. For the original version, see http://www.newsgram.com/132-indian-academicians-call-for-removal-of-sheldon-pollock-as-general-editor-of-murthy-classical-library/. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From soni at staff.uni-marburg.de Sat Mar 5 10:05:16 2016 From: soni at staff.uni-marburg.de (soni at staff.uni-marburg.de) Date: Sat, 05 Mar 16 11:05:16 +0100 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Against the petition against Prof. Pollock In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20160305110516.Horde.a5xQmIek8Exo0nG6frLycdx@home.staff.uni-marburg.de> Dear Professor Slaje, Dear Fellow List Members: The Board, Consultative Members and Regional Directors of the IASS discussed the matter with our President Professor Kutumba Sastry and I may be allowed to quote him directly. Professor Sastry said: "I signed the petition purely in my personal capacity and I did not mention any of my designations for that matter or identity. The text of the petition sent to me was slightly different than the one finally sent to Sri Narayana Murthy." I trust that the matter is now clarified. I thank Professor Kutumba Sastry Ji for his kind willingness to allow me to pass on the relevant section of his email to the IASS Board, etc. With best, yours sincerely, Jay Soni ______________ Secretary General, International Association of Sanskrit Studies http://www.sanskritassociation.org/ ----- Message from Walter Slaje --------- Date: Tue, 1 Mar 2016 09:01:59 +0100 From: Walter Slaje Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] Against the petition against Prof. Pollock To: Nityanand Misra Cc: Dominik Wujastyk , Indology > ? ? > Dear List, >> >> >> >> it might be of some relevance to the community of Indologists that among >> the prominent signatories of the Pollock removal petition Prof. V. >> Kutumba Sastry ranks fifth on top of the list: >> https://www.change.org/p/mr-n-r-narayana-murthy-and-mr-rohan-narayan-murty-removal-of-prof-sheldon-pollock-as-mentor-and-chief-editor-of-murty-classical-library >> That Prof. Kutumba Sastry signed this petition in his capacity of >> the ?President, >> International Association of Sanskrit Studies? (IASS), has meanwhile >> attracted the attention of also the media, who specifically single out his >> name and function: >> http://indianexpress.com/article/india/india-news-india/murty-library-editor-petition-wants-us-scholar-removed-cites-jnu-remarks/ >> >> >> http://www.huffingtonpost.in/2016/03/01/sheldon-pollock-murty-lib_n_9345928.html >> >> >> >> In terms of Indological research, it is perhaps of no little significance >> that the President of the IASS - a leading organization carrying >> ?International? as part of their name and arranging the "World Sanskrit >> Conference" on a regular basis - publicly supports the text of the debated >> petition in full and demands, among others, ?Make in India? ethics and >> ?Swadeshi Indology? in contexts of research and academic publications >> guidelines. Trying to be ?international? and ?swadeshi? at the same time >> clearly equals a contradiction in terms. >> >> The IASS ought to state their position in this matter by clarifying if, in >> promoting nationalist ideas of Indological research, their president is >> acting on their behalf: >> >> http://www.sanskritassociation.org/board-members.php >> >> Thanks and regards, >> >> WS >> > > > ----------------------------- > Prof. Dr. Walter Slaje > Hermann-L?ns-Str. 1 > D-99425 Weimar > Deutschland > > Ego ex animi mei sententia spondeo ac polliceor > studia humanitatis impigro labore culturum et provecturum > non sordidi lucri causa nec ad vanam captandam gloriam, > sed quo magis veritas propagetur et lux eius, qua salus > humani generis continetur, clarius effulgeat. > Vindobonae, die XXI. mensis Novembris MCMLXXXIII. ? > >> ? >> ----- End message from Walter Slaje ----- -- From zysk at hum.ku.dk Sat Mar 5 16:11:53 2016 From: zysk at hum.ku.dk (Kenneth Gregory Zysk) Date: Sat, 05 Mar 16 16:11:53 +0000 Subject: [INDOLOGY] PDF In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <363679393C2EB44480CDA76B2F23C9F72F29825D@P2KITMBX06WC03.unicph.domain> Dear list, I would appreciate knowing where I can obtain a PDF of the following: Wall Paintings from Ancient Shrines in Central Asia, recovered by Sir Aural Stein and described by F.H. Andrews. London. OUP, 1948. Many thanks, Ken Kenneth Zysk, PhD, DPhil Head of Indology Department of Cross-Cultural and Regional Studies University of Copenhagen Karen Blixens Vej 4, Bygn. 10, DK-2300 Copenhagen S Denmark Ph: +45 3532 8951 Email: zysk at hum.ku.dk -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From paoloe.rosati at gmail.com Sat Mar 5 18:00:00 2016 From: paoloe.rosati at gmail.com (Paolo Eugenio Rosati) Date: Sat, 05 Mar 16 19:00:00 +0100 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Devipurana (Pdf request) Message-ID: Dear indologists, Has anyone a pdf copy of this edition of *Devipurana*? *Sharma, Pushpendra Kumar (ed.). 1976. Devi Purana. New Delhi.* Best, Paolo -- Paolo E. Rosati Oriental Archaeologist PhD candidate in "Civilisations of Asia & Africa" Section: South Asia Dep. Italian Institute of Oriental Studies (ISO) 'Sapienza' University of Rome *https://uniroma1.academia.edu/PaoloRosati/ * paoloe.rosati at uniroma1.it paoloe.rosati at gmail.com Skype: paoloe.rosati Mobile: (+39) 338 73 83 472 Questa e-mail ? stata inviata da un computer privo di virus protetto da Avast. www.avast.com <#DDB4FAA8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2> -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From philipp.a.maas at gmail.com Sat Mar 5 22:00:08 2016 From: philipp.a.maas at gmail.com (Philipp Maas) Date: Sat, 05 Mar 16 23:00:08 +0100 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Against the petition against Prof. Pollock Message-ID: Dear Jay and members of Indology, As far as I can see, the petion still lists as no. 5 "Prof. V. Kutumba Sastry, President, International Association of Sanskrit Studies, Former Vice Chancellor, Rashtriya Sanskrit Sansthan, New Delhi". Apperently Prof. Sastry has not taken the trouble to clarify in which function he signed the petition. However, even if he signed the petition as a private person, this would in my view not recommend him vry much for being the president of the IASS, because I see the wording and the spirit of the petition contradicting very much the spirit of the constitution of the IASS. With best wishes, Philipp Maas 2016-03-05 11:05 GMT+01:00 : > Dear Professor Slaje, Dear Fellow List Members: > > The Board, Consultative Members and Regional Directors of the IASS > discussed the matter with our President Professor Kutumba Sastry and I may > be allowed to quote him directly. Professor Sastry said: > > "I signed the petition purely in my personal capacity and I did not > mention any of my designations for that matter or identity. The text of the > petition sent to me was slightly different than the one finally sent to Sri > Narayana Murthy." > > I trust that the matter is now clarified. I thank Professor Kutumba Sastry > Ji for his kind willingness to allow me to pass on the relevant section of > his email to the IASS Board, etc. > > With best, > yours sincerely, > Jay Soni > ______________ > Secretary General, International Association of Sanskrit Studies > http://www.sanskritassociation.org/ > > > ----- Message from Walter Slaje --------- > Date: Tue, 1 Mar 2016 09:01:59 +0100 > From: Walter Slaje > Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] Against the petition against Prof. Pollock > To: Nityanand Misra > Cc: Dominik Wujastyk , Indology < > indology at list.indology.info> > > > ? ? >> Dear List, >> >>> >>> >>> >>> it might be of some relevance to the community of Indologists that among >>> the prominent signatories of the Pollock removal petition Prof. V. >>> Kutumba Sastry ranks fifth on top of the list: >>> >> > >>> https://www.change.org/p/mr-n-r-narayana-murthy-and-mr-rohan-narayan-murty-removal-of-prof-sheldon-pollock-as-mentor-and-chief-editor-of-murty-classical-library >>> >> > That Prof. Kutumba Sastry signed this petition in his capacity of the >>> ?President, >>> International Association of Sanskrit Studies? (IASS), has meanwhile >>> attracted the attention of also the media, who specifically single out >>> his >>> name and function: >>> >> > >>> http://indianexpress.com/article/india/india-news-india/murty-library-editor-petition-wants-us-scholar-removed-cites-jnu-remarks/ >>> >>> >>> >>> http://www.huffingtonpost.in/2016/03/01/sheldon-pollock-murty-lib_n_9345928.html >>> >>> >>> >>> In terms of Indological research, it is perhaps of no little significance >>> that the President of the IASS - a leading organization carrying >>> ?International? as part of their name and arranging the "World Sanskrit >>> Conference" on a regular basis - publicly supports the text of the >>> debated >>> petition in full and demands, among others, ?Make in India? ethics and >>> ?Swadeshi Indology? in contexts of research and academic publications >>> guidelines. Trying to be ?international? and ?swadeshi? at the same time >>> clearly equals a contradiction in terms. >>> >> > >>> The IASS ought to state their position in this matter by clarifying if, >>> in >>> promoting nationalist ideas of Indological research, their president is >>> acting on their behalf: >>> >>> http://www.sanskritassociation.org/board-members.php >>> >>> > Thanks and regards, >>> >>> WS >>> >>> >> >> ----------------------------- >> Prof. Dr. Walter Slaje >> Hermann-L?ns-Str. 1 >> D-99425 Weimar >> Deutschland >> >> Ego ex animi mei sententia spondeo ac polliceor >> studia humanitatis impigro labore culturum et provecturum >> non sordidi lucri causa nec ad vanam captandam gloriam, >> sed quo magis veritas propagetur et lux eius, qua salus >> humani generis continetur, clarius effulgeat. >> Vindobonae, die XXI. mensis Novembris MCMLXXXIII. ? >> >> ? >>> >>> > > ----- End message from Walter Slaje ----- > > > -- > > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing > committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or > unsubscribe) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From nmisra at gmail.com Sun Mar 6 01:11:12 2016 From: nmisra at gmail.com (Nityanand Misra) Date: Sun, 06 Mar 16 06:41:12 +0530 Subject: [INDOLOGY] PDF In-Reply-To: <363679393C2EB44480CDA76B2F23C9F72F29825D@P2KITMBX06WC03.unicph.domain> Message-ID: PDF files of individual pages of both volumes are available on the website of the Digital Silk Road Project of the National Institute of Informatics in Japan. The attached files have the links. http://dsr.nii.ac.jp/toyobunko/LFc-57/V-1/ http://dsr.nii.ac.jp/toyobunko/LFc-57/V-2/ I could not find a link to get the full book in the PDF form, but you may use a download manager (alternatively, use Cygwin on Windows or wget in a shell script on a *nix system) and then combine the PDF files into a single PDF using Acrobat or any other PDF merge utility. On 5 March 2016 at 21:41, Kenneth Gregory Zysk wrote: > Dear list, > > I would appreciate knowing where I can obtain a PDF of the following: > > > > Wall Paintings from Ancient Shrines in Central Asia, recovered by Sir > Aural Stein and described by F.H. Andrews. London. OUP, 1948. > > > > Many thanks, > > Ken > > > > > > Kenneth Zysk, PhD, DPhil > > Head of Indology > > Department of Cross-Cultural and Regional Studies > > University of Copenhagen > > Karen Blixens Vej 4, Bygn. 10, > > DK-2300 Copenhagen S Denmark > > Ph: +45 3532 8951 Email: zysk at hum.ku.dk > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing > committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or > unsubscribe) > -- Nity?nanda Mi?ra http://nmisra.googlepages.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- An embedded and charset-unspecified text was scrubbed... Name: LFc-57V-1links.txt URL: -------------- next part -------------- An embedded and charset-unspecified text was scrubbed... Name: LFc-57V-2links.txt URL: From zysk at hum.ku.dk Sun Mar 6 07:56:03 2016 From: zysk at hum.ku.dk (Kenneth Gregory Zysk) Date: Sun, 06 Mar 16 07:56:03 +0000 Subject: [INDOLOGY] PDF In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <363679393C2EB44480CDA76B2F23C9F72F29A377@P2KITMBX06WC03.unicph.domain> Dear Mr Misra, Thank you for this . I am aware of this, but I need the pdf., which is not possible from here other than page-by-page. Best, Ken Kenneth Zysk, PhD, DPhil Head of Indology Department of Cross-Cultural and Regional Studies University of Copenhagen Karen Blixens Vej 4, Bygn. 10, DK-2300 Copenhagen S Denmark Ph: +45 3532 8951 Email: zysk at hum.ku.dk From: Nityanand Misra [mailto:nmisra at gmail.com] Sent: 6. marts 2016 02:11 To: Kenneth Gregory Zysk Cc: indology at list.indology.info Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] PDF PDF files of individual pages of both volumes are available on the website of the Digital Silk Road Project of the National Institute of Informatics in Japan. The attached files have the links. http://dsr.nii.ac.jp/toyobunko/LFc-57/V-1/ http://dsr.nii.ac.jp/toyobunko/LFc-57/V-2/ I could not find a link to get the full book in the PDF form, but you may use a download manager (alternatively, use Cygwin on Windows or wget in a shell script on a *nix system) and then combine the PDF files into a single PDF using Acrobat or any other PDF merge utility. On 5 March 2016 at 21:41, Kenneth Gregory Zysk > wrote: Dear list, I would appreciate knowing where I can obtain a PDF of the following: Wall Paintings from Ancient Shrines in Central Asia, recovered by Sir Aural Stein and described by F.H. Andrews. London. OUP, 1948. Many thanks, Ken Kenneth Zysk, PhD, DPhil Head of Indology Department of Cross-Cultural and Regional Studies University of Copenhagen Karen Blixens Vej 4, Bygn. 10, DK-2300 Copenhagen S Denmark Ph: +45 3532 8951 Email: zysk at hum.ku.dk _______________________________________________ INDOLOGY mailing list INDOLOGY at list.indology.info indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) -- Nity?nanda Mi?ra http://nmisra.googlepages.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From nmisra at gmail.com Sun Mar 6 08:15:10 2016 From: nmisra at gmail.com (Nityanand Misra) Date: Sun, 06 Mar 16 13:45:10 +0530 Subject: [INDOLOGY] PDF In-Reply-To: <363679393C2EB44480CDA76B2F23C9F72F29A377@P2KITMBX06WC03.unicph.domain> Message-ID: It is very much possible (please read my mail again). In fact I already downloaded all single page PDF files using wget in a script on Cygwin. All I need to do now is to merge them which is easy. I am traveling now but would be back tomorrow. If you do not get a PDF by then, I will mail it to you off the list. On Mar 6, 2016 1:26 PM, "Kenneth Gregory Zysk" wrote: > Dear Mr Misra, > > Thank you for this . I am aware of this, but I need the pdf., which is not > possible from here other than page-by-page. > > Best, > > Ken > > > > Kenneth Zysk, PhD, DPhil > > Head of Indology > > Department of Cross-Cultural and Regional Studies > > University of Copenhagen > > Karen Blixens Vej 4, Bygn. 10, > > DK-2300 Copenhagen S Denmark > > Ph: +45 3532 8951 Email: zysk at hum.ku.dk > > > > > > > > *From:* Nityanand Misra [mailto:nmisra at gmail.com] > *Sent:* 6. marts 2016 02:11 > *To:* Kenneth Gregory Zysk > *Cc:* indology at list.indology.info > *Subject:* Re: [INDOLOGY] PDF > > > > PDF files of individual pages of both volumes are available on the website > of the Digital Silk Road Project of the National Institute of Informatics > in Japan. The attached files have the links. > > > > http://dsr.nii.ac.jp/toyobunko/LFc-57/V-1/ > > http://dsr.nii.ac.jp/toyobunko/LFc-57/V-2/ > > > > I could not find a link to get the full book in the PDF form, but you may > use a download manager (alternatively, use Cygwin on Windows or wget in a > shell script on a *nix system) and then combine the PDF files into a single > PDF using Acrobat or any other PDF merge utility. > > > > > > > > On 5 March 2016 at 21:41, Kenneth Gregory Zysk wrote: > > Dear list, > > I would appreciate knowing where I can obtain a PDF of the following: > > > > Wall Paintings from Ancient Shrines in Central Asia, recovered by Sir > Aural Stein and described by F.H. Andrews. London. OUP, 1948. > > > > Many thanks, > > Ken > > > > > > Kenneth Zysk, PhD, DPhil > > Head of Indology > > Department of Cross-Cultural and Regional Studies > > University of Copenhagen > > Karen Blixens Vej 4, Bygn. 10, > > DK-2300 Copenhagen S Denmark > > Ph: +45 3532 8951 Email: zysk at hum.ku.dk > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing > committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or > unsubscribe) > > > > > > -- > > Nity?nanda Mi?ra > http://nmisra.googlepages.com > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mmdesh at umich.edu Sun Mar 6 11:41:12 2016 From: mmdesh at umich.edu (Madhav Deshpande) Date: Sun, 06 Mar 16 06:41:12 -0500 Subject: =?utf-8?B?UmU6IFtJTkRPTE9HWV0Je+CkreCkvuCksOCkpOClgOCkr+CkteCkv+CkpuCljeCkteCkpOCljeCkquCksOCkv+Ckt+CkpOCljX0gUmU6IExpbmsgdG8gZG93bmxvYWQgYW4gYXJ0aWNsZSBvZiBtaW5l?= In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Thank you so much Shri. Jamadagni for this article about the manuscripts of Tattvakaustubha. I know someone here in Ann Arbor who can hopefully translate this Kannada article for me. A manuscript of Tattvakaustubhakhandana was evidently digitized and published on a CD along with other digitized manuscripts by the Dvaita Vedanta Studies and Research Foundation in Bangalore, but I have not been successful in getting hold of this CD. If anyone in Bangalore can help me, I would be eternally thankful. Madhav Deshpande On Sun, Mar 6, 2016 at 1:27 AM, Sridatta wrote: > I'm attaching an article titled '????? ??????? ??????????? ???????? > ?????????'(ke?adi ?sth?nada tatvakaustubha apraka?ita hastaprati)(in > Kannada) by Dr. Keladi Gunda Jois published in Itihasa darshana > vol.30/2015, Karnataka Itihasa academy. It lists out the details of the > manuscript in various catalogues and aims to bring this manuscript to > attention of scholars. Hope it is helpful. > > On Saturday, 5 March 2016 03:28:37 UTC+5:30, Madhav Deshpande wrote: >> >> Recently, an article of mine ["Appayya D?k?ita and the Lineage of >> Bha??oji D?k?ita"] appeared in the Journal of Indian Philosophy, 44(1), >> 115-124). The journal allows up to 50 downloads of free off-prints and the >> download link will remain alive for the next four weeks. If anyone is >> interested, please download the article using the link below. >> >> Here is the link to download the offprint of this journal article: >> >> >> Download Your e-Offprint (PDF file) >> >> http://www.springer.com/home?SGWID=0-0-1003-0-0&aqId=2690004&download=1&checkval=ecb97479157bcd084ab8150eb300ad52 >> >> >> -- >> Madhav M. Deshpande >> Professor of Sanskrit and Linguistics >> Department of Asian Languages and Cultures >> 202 South Thayer Street, Suite 6111 >> The University of Michigan >> Ann Arbor, MI 48104-1608, USA >> > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the > Google Groups "???????????????????" group. > To unsubscribe from this topic, visit > https://groups.google.com/d/topic/bvparishat/GYONW5aJEzc/unsubscribe. > To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to > bvparishat+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to bvparishat at googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > -- Madhav M. Deshpande Professor of Sanskrit and Linguistics Department of Asian Languages and Cultures 202 South Thayer Street, Suite 6111 The University of Michigan Ann Arbor, MI 48104-1608, USA -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mark.allon at sydney.edu.au Sun Mar 6 22:55:41 2016 From: mark.allon at sydney.edu.au (Mark Allon) Date: Sun, 06 Mar 16 22:55:41 +0000 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Devanagari script exercises Message-ID: <1A46C9B65B1156439124252D1E715E51017DAB97E7@ex-mbx-pro-04> Dear all, Could someone please recommend an online tool for learning Devanagari script for Sanskrit parallel to that for the one I have for Hindi (some vowels of the former are missing in the latter): http://www.avashy.com/hindiscripttutor.htm Best wishes Mark Dr Mark Allon University of Sydney -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From disimone at alumni.stanford.edu Sun Mar 6 23:15:50 2016 From: disimone at alumni.stanford.edu (Charles DiSimone) Date: Mon, 07 Mar 16 00:15:50 +0100 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Devanagari script exercises In-Reply-To: <1A46C9B65B1156439124252D1E715E51017DAB97E7@ex-mbx-pro-04> Message-ID: Dear Mark, I think the Sanskrit learning tools from the University of British Columbia (https://ubcsanskrit.ca/) might be helpful. Here's the Devanagari tool: https://ubcsanskrit.ca/lesson2/writingtutor.html All best, Charlie On Sun, Mar 6, 2016 at 11:55 PM, Mark Allon wrote: > Dear all, > > > > Could someone please recommend an online tool for learning Devanagari > script for Sanskrit parallel to that for the one I have for Hindi (some > vowels of the former are missing in the latter): > http://www.avashy.com/hindiscripttutor.htm > > > > Best wishes > > Mark > > > > Dr Mark Allon > > University of Sydney > > > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing > committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or > unsubscribe) > -- Charles DiSimone Promotionsprogramm Buddhismus-Studien Institut f?r Indologie und Tibetologie Ludwig-Maximilians-Universit?t M?nchen -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From wujastyk at gmail.com Mon Mar 7 00:36:04 2016 From: wujastyk at gmail.com (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Sun, 06 Mar 16 16:36:04 -0800 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Against the petition against Prof. Pollock In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Dear colleagues, As the petiton stands today (Sunday 6 March), it still asserts about Prof. Pollock that, "He echoes the views of Macaulay and Max Weber that the shastras generated in India serve no contemporary purpose except for the study of how Indians express themselves. He has forcefully articulated this view in his career, starting with his 1985 paper, ..." The specific reference to Pollock's 2012 Heidelberg lecture, that was the reference originally given for the Macaulay & Weber idea, has been removed, and the accusation has thus been rendered generic, referring only to "in his career." Prof. Ganesh Ramakrishnan, the person apparently now responsible for the petition, has asserted that the petition has been updated (presumably as a response to my post of 27 Feb and to similar observations by several others), removing the arguments that I pointed out were based on complete misunderstandings of Pollock's writings. In fact, it is *not* the case that the petition has been fixed. Every original criticism of Pollock is still present in the petition. All that has changed is that the specific citation of these arguments from the 2012 publication has been removed (the footnote reference has been deleted, if you like). The petition thus retains all its original errors, although it has been edited to make it harder to do the fact-checking. I understand from recent correspondence in this forum that Prof. Kutumba Sastry has withdrawn his support for the petition specifically in his capacity as President of the IIAS and former principal of the Rashtriya Sanskrit Sansthan. However, his wishes have not been respected by Prof. Ganesh Ramakrishnan or whoever controls the public petition, since as of today, the petition still says, 5. Prof. V. Kutumba Sastry, President, International Association of Sanskrit Studies, Former Vice Chancellor, Rashtriya Sanskrit Sansthan, New Delhi. Out of respect for Prof. Kutumba Sastry, those who control the petition should abide by his wishes. Sincerely, Dominik Wujastyk -- Professor Dominik Wujastyk Singhmar Chair in Classical Indian Society and Polity Department of History and Classics University of Alberta, Canada. Academia home page -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From hspier.muktabodha at gmail.com Mon Mar 7 01:51:22 2016 From: hspier.muktabodha at gmail.com (Harry Spier) Date: Sun, 06 Mar 16 20:51:22 -0500 Subject: [INDOLOGY] PDF of Taittiriya Aranyaka vol. 3 by Mahadeva Sastri and Rangacharya needed Message-ID: Dear list members, If anyone has a pdf of volume 3 of the Taittiriya Aranyaka by Mahadeva Sastri and Rangacharya could they send it to me. I know its in the Digital Library of India but I'm unable to download it with my usual method with BitComet. Thanks, Harry Spier -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From hspier.muktabodha at gmail.com Mon Mar 7 04:16:57 2016 From: hspier.muktabodha at gmail.com (Harry Spier) Date: Sun, 06 Mar 16 23:16:57 -0500 Subject: [INDOLOGY] PDF of Taittiriya Aranyaka vol. 3 by Mahadeva Sastri and Rangacharya needed In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I've just found out that the DLI has the wrong book under the entry "volume 3 of the Taittiriya Aranyaka by Mahadeva Sastri and Rangacharya" so downloading it from the DLI (which a list member kindly has) wont help. Thanks, Harry Spier On Sun, Mar 6, 2016 at 8:51 PM, Harry Spier wrote: > Dear list members, > > If anyone has a pdf of volume 3 of the Taittiriya Aranyaka by Mahadeva > Sastri and Rangacharya could they send it to me. > > I know its in the Digital Library of India but I'm unable to download it > with my usual method with BitComet. > > Thanks, > Harry Spier > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From james.hartzell at gmail.com Mon Mar 7 10:00:33 2016 From: james.hartzell at gmail.com (James Hartzell) Date: Mon, 07 Mar 16 15:30:33 +0530 Subject: [INDOLOGY] contact details Shrikant Bahulkar Message-ID: Hello Could someone send me the current phone and email for Shrikant Bahulkar? Cheers James Hartzell, PhD(2x) Center for Mind/Brain Sciences (CIMeC) The University of Trento, Italy -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Karen_O'Brien-Kop at soas.ac.uk Mon Mar 7 10:06:34 2016 From: Karen_O'Brien-Kop at soas.ac.uk (Karen O'Brien-Kop) Date: Mon, 07 Mar 16 10:06:34 +0000 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Phiroz Mehta Scholarship for MA Traditions of Meditation and Yoga at SOAS Message-ID: Dear Colleagues I have been asked to circulate this notice about the *current scholarship* available for the *MA in Traditions of Yoga and Meditation at SOAS*, University of London: "SOAS University of London is delighted to be offering the Phiroz Mehta Scholarship for the academic year 2016-17. Made possible by the generosity of the Phiroz Mehta Trust, the scholarship is available for UK/EU post-graduate students undertaking the full-time MA Traditions of Yoga and Meditation at SOAS. The total value of the scholarship is *?7,678*, which will be used towards the cost of tuition fees. For further information about the award and how to apply, please visit the scholarship page on the SOAS website." Kind regards Karen O'Brien-Kop *PhD candidate, Religions and Philosophies, SOAS, University of London* -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From james.hartzell at gmail.com Mon Mar 7 10:23:27 2016 From: james.hartzell at gmail.com (James Hartzell) Date: Mon, 07 Mar 16 15:53:27 +0530 Subject: [INDOLOGY] contact details Shrikant Bahulkar In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Thanks to Lubomir Ondracka and Anirban Dash for your quick replies. On Mon, Mar 7, 2016 at 3:30 PM, James Hartzell wrote: > Hello > > Could someone send me the current phone and email for Shrikant Bahulkar? > > Cheers > > James Hartzell, PhD(2x) > Center for Mind/Brain Sciences (CIMeC) > The University of Trento, Italy > -- James Hartzell, PhD(2x) Center for Mind/Brain Sciences (CIMeC) The University of Trento, Italy -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From harshadehejia at hotmail.com Mon Mar 7 11:29:16 2016 From: harshadehejia at hotmail.com (Harsha Dehejia) Date: Mon, 07 Mar 16 06:29:16 -0500 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Balagopalastuti Message-ID: Friends: Is Bilvamangala's Balagopalastuti the same as his Krishnakaranamrutam? Kind regards. HarshaHarsha V. Dehejia -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jwn3y at cms.mail.virginia.edu Mon Mar 7 11:55:00 2016 From: jwn3y at cms.mail.virginia.edu (John Nemec) Date: Mon, 07 Mar 16 06:55:00 -0500 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Richard Salomon's "Notes on the Translations of KalhaNa's RAjataraGgiNI" In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Dear Indology Listmembers, I have been looking in the usual places for access to a .pdf copy of the following article and would greatly appreciate it if any of you could offer one: Richard Salomon, "Notes on the Translations of KalhaNa?s RAjataraGgiNI (I?IV). _Berliner Indologische Studien_ 3 (1987): 149?179. Thank you. Sincerely, John __________________________________ John Nemec, Ph.D. Editor, Religion in Translation Series (AAR and OUP) Associate Professor, Indian Religions and South Asian Studies Department of Religious Studies University of Virginia 323 Gibson Hall / 1540 Jefferson Park Avenue Charlottesville, VA 22904 (USA) nemec at virginia.edu +1-434-924-6716 http://virginia.academia.edu/JNemec From gaiapintucci at gmail.com Mon Mar 7 12:13:31 2016 From: gaiapintucci at gmail.com (Gaia Pintucci) Date: Mon, 07 Mar 16 21:13:31 +0900 Subject: =?utf-8?Q?[INDOLOGY]_=C5=9A=E1=B9=9B=E1=B9=85g=C4=81raprak=C4=81=C5=9Ba_e-text_and_pdf?= Message-ID: Dear List, is a complete e-text of the *???g?raprak??a* available anywhere? I have e-texts only of the first fourteen *prak??a*s. Even e-texts of individual *prak??a*s following the 14th would be very much appreciated. It would be of course equally helpful to have a pdf of any edition of the same work. Actually I found pdfs of volumes 1, 2 and 4 of Josyer's edition, but I cannot find a pdf of volume 3, that covers the *prak??a*s 15 to 24 ( *prak??a* 17 on the *anubh?va*s might be the most relevant for my present research). As the files I have look definitely like legally circulating ones, say from DLI or similar repositories, I have reasons to hope that a pdf of the third volume might turn up somewhere. Can anyone help with Josyer's or other editions? With best wishes, Gaia Pintucci, M.A. Universit?t Hamburg Asien-Afrika-Institut Abt. f?r Kultur und Geschichte Indiens und Tibets Doktorandenkolleg Geisteswissenschaften Alsterterrasse 1 D-20354 Hamburg Germany gaiapintucci at gmail.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From christophe.vielle at uclouvain.be Mon Mar 7 16:39:09 2016 From: christophe.vielle at uclouvain.be (Christophe Vielle) Date: Mon, 07 Mar 16 17:39:09 +0100 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Balagopalastuti In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <835811D5-0B5E-44DD-AB7C-E0E04D47162F@uclouvain.be> The manuscript tradition of the devotional anthology entitled K.r.s.nakar.naam.rta appears rather complex. See France Wilson, The Love of Krishna: The K.r.s.nakar.naam.rta of Liilaazuka Bilvamangala, edited with an introduction, Philadelphia: University of Pennsylvania Press, 1975. Several manuscripts bear the title Baalagopaalastuti, which according to K. Kunjunni Raja, CKSL, p. 37 fn. 35, represents a Textus Simplicior. Note that a short Baalagopaalaa.s.taka-stotra ascribed to (Bilvamangala) Liilaazuka has been edited in TSS 211, 1964 (Stotrasamaahaara.h, ed. K. Raghavan Pillai). Best wishes, Christophe Vielle Le 7 mars 2016 ? 12:29, Harsha Dehejia a ?crit : > Friends: > > Is Bilvamangala's Balagopalastuti the same as his Krishnakaranamrutam? > > Kind regards. > > Harsha > Harsha V. Dehejia > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) ??????????????????? Christophe Vielle Louvain-la-Neuve -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From michaels at asia-europe.uni-heidelberg.de Mon Mar 7 18:08:21 2016 From: michaels at asia-europe.uni-heidelberg.de (Michaels, Axel) Date: Mon, 07 Mar 16 18:08:21 +0000 Subject: [INDOLOGY] SAI Declaration re. Professor Pollock Message-ID: Dear all, You will now find the updated declaration of members and friends of the SAI regarding the petition against Sheldon Pollock here: http://www.sai.uni-heidelberg.de/en/index.php?subaction=showfull&id=1457351204&archive=&start_from=&ucat=9& New signatories will be continously added. Best greetings, Axel Michaels -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From r.mahoney at indica-et-buddhica.org Mon Mar 7 19:40:53 2016 From: r.mahoney at indica-et-buddhica.org (Richard Mahoney | Indica et Buddhica) Date: Tue, 08 Mar 16 08:40:53 +1300 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Richard Salomon's "Notes on the Translations of KalhaNa's RAjataraGgiNI" [Berliner indologischen Studien] In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <56DDD945.8050305@indica-et-buddhica.org> Dear John, You may like to get in touch with the editor Gerd Mevissen. Happy to fire through his address. And in case it might help here are the current details: IeB | Berliner indologischen Studien http://indica-et-buddhica.org/tabulae/b/berliner-indologischen-studien And near the bottom of this record one can find links to three PDFs, tables of content for the full run (courtesy of Gerd): IeB Scholia | Berliner indologischen Studien - Full record http://scholia.indica-et-buddhica.org/search/?attribute=@attr%201=12&query=IEB0000000073&displayform=2&num=1&start=1 With best wishes, Richard On 3/8/2016 00:55, John Nemec wrote: > Dear Indology Listmembers, > > I have been looking in the usual places for access to a .pdf copy of > the following article and would greatly appreciate it if any of you > could offer one: > > Richard Salomon, "Notes on the Translations of KalhaNa?s > RAjataraGgiNI (I?IV). _Berliner Indologische Studien_ 3 (1987): > 149?179. > > Thank you. > > Sincerely, John __________________________________ John Nemec, Ph.D. > Editor, Religion in Translation Series (AAR and OUP) Associate > Professor, Indian Religions and South Asian Studies Department of > Religious Studies University of Virginia 323 Gibson Hall / 1540 > Jefferson Park Avenue Charlottesville, VA 22904 (USA) > nemec at virginia.edu +1-434-924-6716 > http://virginia.academia.edu/JNemec > > _______________________________________________ INDOLOGY mailing > list INDOLOGY at list.indology.info indology-owner at list.indology.info > (messages to the list's managing committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options > or unsubscribe) > -- Richard Mahoney | Indica et Buddhica Littledene Bay Road Oxford 7430 NZ M: +64-21-064-0216 T: +64-3-312-1699 r.mahoney at indica-et-buddhica.org -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 473 bytes Desc: not available URL: From james.hartzell at gmail.com Tue Mar 8 01:19:16 2016 From: james.hartzell at gmail.com (James Hartzell) Date: Tue, 08 Mar 16 06:49:16 +0530 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Fwd: contact details Shrikant Bahulkar In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Here you go ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Anirban Dash Date: Mon, Mar 7, 2016 at 3:44 PM Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] contact details Shrikant Bahulkar To: James Hartzell shrikant.bahulkar at gmail.com shrikant.bahulkar49 at gmail.com Mobile number 00 91 9272296556 On Mar 7, 2016 3:31 PM, "James Hartzell" wrote: > Hello > > Could someone send me the current phone and email for Shrikant Bahulkar? > > Cheers > > James Hartzell, PhD(2x) > Center for Mind/Brain Sciences (CIMeC) > The University of Trento, Italy > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing > committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or > unsubscribe) > -- James Hartzell, PhD(2x) Center for Mind/Brain Sciences (CIMeC) The University of Trento, Italy -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From psdmccartney at gmail.com Tue Mar 8 06:48:30 2016 From: psdmccartney at gmail.com (patrick mccartney) Date: Tue, 08 Mar 16 17:18:30 +1030 Subject: [INDOLOGY] A quote from the MBh? Message-ID: Dear Friends, Does anyone recognise this verse and able to locate it? Below is is how I found it transliterated: Na rajyam na cha rajasit na dandi na cha dandikah, dharmasauva prajasasarva rakshintasya parasparam The closest I've found is the following verse on GRETIL: MBh 06,012.036a na tatra r?j? r?jendra na da??o na ca da??ik?? 06,012.036c svadharme?aiva dharma? ca te rak?anti parasparam Thanks in advance. All the best, Patrick McCartney PhD Candidate School of Culture, History & Language College of the Asia-Pacific The Australian National University Canberra, Australia, 0200 Skype - psdmccartney Phone + Whatsapp: +61 414 954 748 Twitter - @psdmccartney - *https://www.linkedin.com/profile/view?id=241756978&trk=nav_responsive_tab_profile * - *https://anu-au.academia.edu/patrickmccartney * https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cy6lVABgjmg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LVqBD_2P4Pg http://youtu.be/y3XfjbwqC_g http://trinityroots.bandcamp.com/track/all-we-be https://youtu.be/7tAp8m9RHPU -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From psdmccartney at gmail.com Tue Mar 8 07:06:39 2016 From: psdmccartney at gmail.com (patrick mccartney) Date: Tue, 08 Mar 16 17:36:39 +1030 Subject: [INDOLOGY] A quote from the MBh? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Thank you to Chris Gibbons. In case anyone is interested in the verse that Chris suggested: 12,059.014a naiva r?jya? na r?j?s?n na da??o na ca d???ika? 12,059.014c dharme?aiva praj?? sarv? rak?anti ca parasparam All the best, Patrick McCartney PhD Candidate School of Culture, History & Language College of the Asia-Pacific The Australian National University Canberra, Australia, 0200 Skype - psdmccartney Phone + Whatsapp: +61 414 954 748 Twitter - @psdmccartney - *https://www.linkedin.com/profile/view?id=241756978&trk=nav_responsive_tab_profile * - *https://anu-au.academia.edu/patrickmccartney * https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cy6lVABgjmg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LVqBD_2P4Pg http://youtu.be/y3XfjbwqC_g http://trinityroots.bandcamp.com/track/all-we-be https://youtu.be/7tAp8m9RHPU On Tue, Mar 8, 2016 at 5:18 PM, patrick mccartney wrote: > Dear Friends, > > Does anyone recognise this verse and able to locate it? Below is is how I > found it transliterated: > > Na rajyam na cha rajasit na dandi na cha dandikah, > > dharmasauva prajasasarva rakshintasya parasparam > > > The closest I've found is the following verse on GRETIL: > > > MBh > > 06,012.036a na tatra r?j? r?jendra na da??o na ca da??ik?? > > 06,012.036c svadharme?aiva dharma? ca te rak?anti parasparam > > Thanks in advance. > > > > > All the best, > > Patrick McCartney > > PhD Candidate > School of Culture, History & Language > College of the Asia-Pacific > The Australian National University > Canberra, Australia, 0200 > > > Skype - psdmccartney > Phone + Whatsapp: +61 414 954 748 > Twitter - @psdmccartney > > > > - *https://www.linkedin.com/profile/view?id=241756978&trk=nav_responsive_tab_profile > * > - *https://anu-au.academia.edu/patrickmccartney > * > > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cy6lVABgjmg > > > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LVqBD_2P4Pg > > http://youtu.be/y3XfjbwqC_g > > http://trinityroots.bandcamp.com/track/all-we-be > > https://youtu.be/7tAp8m9RHPU > > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dipak.d2004 at gmail.com Tue Mar 8 09:20:24 2016 From: dipak.d2004 at gmail.com (Dipak Bhattacharya) Date: Tue, 08 Mar 16 14:50:24 +0530 Subject: [INDOLOGY] A quote from the MBh? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: One may compare *na puragr?madurg??i na c?yudhdhar? nar??/ k?ay?ti?ayadu?kha? ca n?rtha??strasya c?dara?// dharmaikav?san? lok?? p?thau r?jya? pra??sati*/ Matsya Pur. 10 31-32 This occurs in the story of P?thu and Ve?a Best DB On Tue, Mar 8, 2016 at 12:18 PM, patrick mccartney wrote: > Dear Friends, > > Does anyone recognise this verse and able to locate it? Below is is how I > found it transliterated: > > Na rajyam na cha rajasit na dandi na cha dandikah, > > dharmasauva prajasasarva rakshintasya parasparam > > > The closest I've found is the following verse on GRETIL: > > > MBh > > 06,012.036a na tatra r?j? r?jendra na da??o na ca da??ik?? > > 06,012.036c svadharme?aiva dharma? ca te rak?anti parasparam > > Thanks in advance. > > > > > All the best, > > Patrick McCartney > > PhD Candidate > School of Culture, History & Language > College of the Asia-Pacific > The Australian National University > Canberra, Australia, 0200 > > > Skype - psdmccartney > Phone + Whatsapp: +61 414 954 748 > Twitter - @psdmccartney > > > > - *https://www.linkedin.com/profile/view?id=241756978&trk=nav_responsive_tab_profile > * > - *https://anu-au.academia.edu/patrickmccartney > * > > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cy6lVABgjmg > > > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LVqBD_2P4Pg > > http://youtu.be/y3XfjbwqC_g > > http://trinityroots.bandcamp.com/track/all-we-be > > https://youtu.be/7tAp8m9RHPU > > > > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing > committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or > unsubscribe) > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From 573500 at soas.ac.uk Tue Mar 8 10:05:24 2016 From: 573500 at soas.ac.uk (Karen O'Brien-Kop) Date: Tue, 08 Mar 16 10:05:24 +0000 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Phiroz Mehta Scholarship for MA in Traditions of Yoga and Meditation, SOAS, UK Message-ID: *Apologies for any cross-posting* Dear Colleagues I have been asked to circulate this notice about the *current scholarship* available for the *MA in Traditions of Yoga and Meditation at SOAS*, University of London: "SOAS University of London is delighted to be offering the Phiroz Mehta Scholarship for the academic year 2016-17. Made possible by the generosity of the Phiroz Mehta Trust, the scholarship is available for UK/EU post-graduate students undertaking the full-time MA Traditions of Yoga and Meditation at SOAS. The total value of the scholarship is *?7,678*, which will be used towards the cost of tuition fees. For further information about the award and how to apply, please visit the scholarship page on the SOAS website." Kind regards Karen O'Brien-Kop *PhD candidate, Religions and Philosophies, SOAS*, *University of London* -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From gruenen at sub.uni-goettingen.de Tue Mar 8 10:17:53 2016 From: gruenen at sub.uni-goettingen.de (Gruenendahl, Reinhold) Date: Tue, 08 Mar 16 10:17:53 +0000 Subject: [INDOLOGY] A quote from the MBh? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <044C4CE033BD474EBE2ACACE8E4B1D94D68F7A15@UM-EXCDAG-A06.um.gwdg.de> Could this be the verse you are looking for? naiva r?jya? na r?j?s?n na da??o na ca d???ika? dharme?aiva praj?? sarv? rak?anti ca parasparam // MBh_12,059.014 // Best, RG ________________________________ Von: INDOLOGY [indology-bounces at list.indology.info]" im Auftrag von "Dipak Bhattacharya [dipak.d2004 at gmail.com] Gesendet: Dienstag, 8. M?rz 2016 10:20 An: patrick mccartney Cc: Indology List Betreff: Re: [INDOLOGY] A quote from the MBh? One may compare na puragr?madurg??i na c?yudhdhar? nar??/ k?ay?ti?ayadu?kha? ca n?rtha??strasya c?dara?// dharmaikav?san? lok?? p?thau r?jya? pra??sati/ Matsya Pur. 10 31-32 This occurs in the story of P?thu and Ve?a Best DB On Tue, Mar 8, 2016 at 12:18 PM, patrick mccartney > wrote: Dear Friends, Does anyone recognise this verse and able to locate it? Below is is how I found it transliterated: Na rajyam na cha rajasit na dandi na cha dandikah, dharmasauva prajasasarva rakshintasya parasparam The closest I've found is the following verse on GRETIL: MBh 06,012.036a na tatra r?j? r?jendra na da??o na ca da??ik?? 06,012.036c svadharme?aiva dharma? ca te rak?anti parasparam Thanks in advance. All the best, Patrick McCartney PhD Candidate School of Culture, History & Language College of the Asia-Pacific The Australian National University Canberra, Australia, 0200 Skype - psdmccartney Phone + Whatsapp: +61 414 954 748 Twitter - @psdmccartney * https://www.linkedin.com/profile/view?id=241756978&trk=nav_responsive_tab_profile * https://anu-au.academia.edu/patrickmccartney https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cy6lVABgjmg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LVqBD_2P4Pg http://youtu.be/y3XfjbwqC_g http://trinityroots.bandcamp.com/track/all-we-be https://youtu.be/7tAp8m9RHPU _______________________________________________ INDOLOGY mailing list INDOLOGY at list.indology.info indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From james.hartzell at gmail.com Tue Mar 8 11:39:04 2016 From: james.hartzell at gmail.com (James Hartzell) Date: Tue, 08 Mar 16 17:09:04 +0530 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Prof. Bahu;lkar Message-ID: Apologies to the list for the public posting of Prof. Bahulkar's cell number -- James Hartzell, PhD(2x) Center for Mind/Brain Sciences (CIMeC) The University of Trento, Italy -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From veerankp at gmail.com Tue Mar 8 17:47:57 2016 From: veerankp at gmail.com (Veeranarayana Pandurangi) Date: Tue, 08 Mar 16 23:17:57 +0530 Subject: [INDOLOGY] New publications, haridas bhat felicitation volume, tarkasangraha and giitaabhaasya In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > Here are three new publications > 1. Pranamanjali, Pandit haridas bhat felicitation volume on the occasion of his sixtieth birthday, 2016, edited by Dr. A v nagasampige, Dr. Shankaranayana Adiga, Dr. Tirumala Kulakarni, and Dr. Dhananjay rao, (which among many others , contains my three articles ) > 2. tarkasangraha with shaabdabodha and nyaayabodhinii (as taught in ppvp gurukula system) edited by Dhananjay rao, pp. 154. 2015. > 3. Giitaabhaasya of madhvacharya with comms. Of Jayatirtha and Raghavendratiirtha thereupon ( third one edited for first time from tulu manuscripts) edited by c r pradipasimhacharya with extensive notes, pp. 190+ 896.(where many untraced quotations are traced) with 10 appendices) 2014. > > All published by ppsm bengaluru. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From gruenen at sub.uni-goettingen.de Tue Mar 8 19:42:25 2016 From: gruenen at sub.uni-goettingen.de (Gruenendahl, Reinhold) Date: Tue, 08 Mar 16 19:42:25 +0000 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Bibliographical information on a lecture by Prof. A. Aklujkar? In-Reply-To: <044C4CE033BD474EBE2ACACE8E4B1D94D68F7AC8@UM-EXCDAG-A06.um.gwdg.de> Message-ID: <044C4CE033BD474EBE2ACACE8E4B1D94D68F7ADF@UM-EXCDAG-A06.um.gwdg.de> Dear colleagues, there are several references to a lecture Prof. A. Aklujkar seems to have given in 2010 and 2013 on "Language philosophy in the Mahabharata" (cf. Bronkhorst in "Archetypes and Bottlenecks"; abstract of 2013 the lecture available online). If it has been published I would be obliged for the bibliographical data. With thanks and best wishes, Reinhold Gr?nendahl -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From michaels at asia-europe.uni-heidelberg.de Tue Mar 8 19:47:45 2016 From: michaels at asia-europe.uni-heidelberg.de (Michaels, Axel) Date: Tue, 08 Mar 16 19:47:45 +0000 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Buddhist Studies Professorship at Excellence Cluster "Asia and Europe" - Heidelberg University Message-ID: See attachments Best greetings, Axel Michaels Prof. Dr. Axel Michaels | Director Excellence Cluster "Asia and Europe in a Global Context" | Director Dept. of Classical Indology, South Asia Institute | Director Research Unit "Historical Documents of Nepal" of the Heidelberg Academy of Sciences and Humanities |Contact |Universit?t Heidelberg, S?dasien-Institut | Im Neuenheimer Feld 330, D-69120 Heidelberg |Tel. +49-6221-548917 / Fax +49-6221-546338 | sek-michaels at uni-heidelberg.de (SAI office) | Axel.Michaels at urz.uni-heidelberg.de (official and personal) | michaels at asia-europe.uni-heidelberg.de (Cluster mail) | Websites | http://www.asia-europe.uni-heidelberg.de/de/startseite.html | http://www.sai.uni-heidelberg.de/abt/IND/index.php | http://www.haw.uni-heidelberg.de/forschung/forschungsstellen/nepal/projekt.de.html -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: BuddhistStudies_CfA_DE2.pdf Type: application/pdf Size: 10809 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: BuddhistStudies_CfA_ENG4.pdf Type: application/pdf Size: 10779 bytes Desc: not available URL: From ashok.aklujkar at gmail.com Tue Mar 8 20:55:15 2016 From: ashok.aklujkar at gmail.com (Ashok Aklujkar) Date: Tue, 08 Mar 16 12:55:15 -0800 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Bibliographical information on a lecture by Prof. A. Aklujkar? In-Reply-To: <044C4CE033BD474EBE2ACACE8E4B1D94D68F7ADF@UM-EXCDAG-A06.um.gwdg.de> Message-ID: <703A78F2-EB7C-47A1-8D2F-957E5BC212CF@mail.ubc.ca> Dear Dr. Gr?nendahl, The lecture has not been published. I am trying my best to bring it to a publishable stage. Please bear with me at least for a few weeks. Best wishes. a.a. > On Mar 8, 2016, at 11:42 AM, Gruenendahl, Reinhold > wrote: > > > Dear colleagues, > there are several references to a lecture Prof. A. Aklujkar seems to have given in 2010 and 2013 on "Language philosophy in the Mahabharata" (cf. Bronkhorst in "Archetypes and Bottlenecks"; abstract of 2013 the lecture available online). If it has been published I would be obliged for the bibliographical data. > > With thanks and best wishes, > Reinhold Gr?nendahl > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From nmisra at gmail.com Wed Mar 9 00:46:02 2016 From: nmisra at gmail.com (Nityanand Misra) Date: Wed, 09 Mar 16 06:16:02 +0530 Subject: [INDOLOGY] PDF In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Prof. Zysk has the PDFs for both volumes of Wall Paintings from Ancient Shrines in Central Asia. If anybody else needs them, please get in touch with me off the list. On 6 March 2016 at 13:45, Nityanand Misra wrote: > It is very much possible (please read my mail again). In fact I already > downloaded all single page PDF files using wget in a script on Cygwin. All > I need to do now is to merge them which is easy. I am traveling now but > would be back tomorrow. If you do not get a PDF by then, I will mail it to > you off the list. > On Mar 6, 2016 1:26 PM, "Kenneth Gregory Zysk" wrote: > >> Dear Mr Misra, >> >> Thank you for this . I am aware of this, but I need the pdf., which is >> not possible from here other than page-by-page. >> >> Best, >> >> Ken >> >> >> >> Kenneth Zysk, PhD, DPhil >> >> Head of Indology >> >> Department of Cross-Cultural and Regional Studies >> >> University of Copenhagen >> >> Karen Blixens Vej 4, Bygn. 10, >> >> DK-2300 Copenhagen S Denmark >> >> Ph: +45 3532 8951 Email: zysk at hum.ku.dk >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> *From:* Nityanand Misra [mailto:nmisra at gmail.com] >> *Sent:* 6. marts 2016 02:11 >> *To:* Kenneth Gregory Zysk >> *Cc:* indology at list.indology.info >> *Subject:* Re: [INDOLOGY] PDF >> >> >> >> PDF files of individual pages of both volumes are available on the >> website of the Digital Silk Road Project of the National Institute of >> Informatics in Japan. The attached files have the links. >> >> >> >> http://dsr.nii.ac.jp/toyobunko/LFc-57/V-1/ >> >> http://dsr.nii.ac.jp/toyobunko/LFc-57/V-2/ >> >> >> >> I could not find a link to get the full book in the PDF form, but you may >> use a download manager (alternatively, use Cygwin on Windows or wget in a >> shell script on a *nix system) and then combine the PDF files into a single >> PDF using Acrobat or any other PDF merge utility. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> On 5 March 2016 at 21:41, Kenneth Gregory Zysk wrote: >> >> Dear list, >> >> I would appreciate knowing where I can obtain a PDF of the following: >> >> >> >> Wall Paintings from Ancient Shrines in Central Asia, recovered by Sir >> Aural Stein and described by F.H. Andrews. London. OUP, 1948. >> >> >> >> Many thanks, >> >> Ken >> >> >> >> >> >> Kenneth Zysk, PhD, DPhil >> >> Head of Indology >> >> Department of Cross-Cultural and Regional Studies >> >> University of Copenhagen >> >> Karen Blixens Vej 4, Bygn. 10, >> >> DK-2300 Copenhagen S Denmark >> >> Ph: +45 3532 8951 Email: zysk at hum.ku.dk >> >> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> INDOLOGY mailing list >> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info >> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing >> committee) >> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or >> unsubscribe) >> >> >> >> >> >> -- >> >> Nity?nanda Mi?ra >> http://nmisra.googlepages.com >> > -- Nity?nanda Mi?ra http://nmisra.googlepages.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From arlogriffiths at hotmail.com Wed Mar 9 09:16:19 2016 From: arlogriffiths at hotmail.com (Arlo Griffiths) Date: Wed, 09 Mar 16 09:16:19 +0000 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Epigraphia Andhrica volume I Message-ID: Dear colleagues, I am having trouble laying my hands on volume I of Epigraphia Andhrica. I don't find this specific volume on Archive.org, and it seems to be absent from French libraries. Would anyone be able to furnish me a scan of the whole volume, or else of the article on the Kesanapalli inscription that should be contained in it, around p. 146? Thank you. Arlo Griffiths ?cole fran?aise d'Extr?me-Orient -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From r.mahoney at indica-et-buddhica.org Wed Mar 9 09:37:51 2016 From: r.mahoney at indica-et-buddhica.org (Richard Mahoney | Indica et Buddhica) Date: Wed, 09 Mar 16 22:37:51 +1300 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Epigraphia Andhrica volume I In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <56DFEEEF.1@indica-et-buddhica.org> Dear Arlo, Copies of 1(1969) seem to be held by Berlin, Tuebingen and Heidelberg: Title = Epigraphia Andhrica and ZDB-ID = 3037071 http://scholia.indica-et-buddhica.org/search/zdb.sch?attribute=@attr%201=4&query=Epigraphia%20Andhrica&attribute2=@attr%201=1007&query2=3037071&operator=@and&displayform=2&num=1&start=1 Best, R On 3/9/2016 22:16, Arlo Griffiths wrote: > Dear colleagues, > > I am having trouble laying my hands on volume I of Epigraphia Andhrica. > I don't find this specific volume on Archive.org, and it seems to be > absent from French libraries. > > Would anyone be able to furnish me a scan of the whole volume, or else > of the article on the Kesanapalli inscription that should be contained > in it, around p. 146? > > Thank you. > > Arlo Griffiths > ?cole fran?aise d'Extr?me-Orient > > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) > -- Richard Mahoney | Indica et Buddhica Littledene Bay Road Oxford 7430 NZ M: +64-21-064-0216 T: +64-3-312-1699 r.mahoney at indica-et-buddhica.org -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 473 bytes Desc: not available URL: From vajpeyi at csds.in Thu Mar 10 05:19:39 2016 From: vajpeyi at csds.in (Ananya Vajpeyi) Date: Thu, 10 Mar 16 10:49:39 +0530 Subject: [INDOLOGY] From Professors in Chennai, on Pollock / MCLI Message-ID: Dear Colleagues, Below a message from a group of academics based in Chennai, regarding the petition against Professor Pollock and the MCLI. Thanks, A. VAJPEYI. --------------- The recent attacks by self-styled ?Indian? scholars on Professor Sheldon Pollock further heightens a systematic campaign to vilify any type of serious academic investigation of India?s pasts. This is a small-minded and parochial effort at best, but more darkly, an attempt to reorient any permissible interpretation of South Asian history towards serving a deeply conservative Hindutva agenda. The study of early texts and artefacts originating in the subcontinent is not the exclusive privilege of ethnic Indians, any more than the study of classical Rome or Greece ?belongs? only to modern Italians and Greeks. Indeed, if scholarship of these latter domains had been so limited, humanity as a whole might have lost extensive literary and cultural treasures ranging from Aeschylus to Lucretius to the dustbin of history. Efforts such as the Murty Classical Library require disinterested and meticulous scholarship to rediscover similar literary assets and make them available to a wider global audience. They must not be left to the mischievous interpretation of ideologues. We note also that Prof Pollock has been speciously misquoted. For instance, please see: 1. http://www.telegraphindia.com/1160302/jsp/frontpage/story_72368.jsp#.VtZhopN96T8 2. http://thewire.in/2016/03/02/what-the-petition-against-the-sanskritist-sheldon-pollock-is-really-about-23357/ 3. "This is the conviction that animates this book: that the literatures of South Asia constitute one of the great achievements of human creativity. In their antiquity, continuity, and multicultural complexity combined, they are unmatched in world literary history and unrivaled in the resources they offer for understanding the development of expressive language and imagination over time and in relation to larger orders of culture, society, and polity." Pollock (2003): Literary Cultures in History, University of California Press, Page 2. We urge scholars everywhere to support Prof Pollock?s continued role as curator of these materials, if only because he has spent decades of painstaking and careful research into the enormous variety of literary cultures in India?s long history and has surely earned the right to direct an academically rigorous effort to build the library. Sudhir Chella Rajan, Humanities and Social Sciences, IIT Madras Arvind Sivaramakrishnan, Humanities and Social Sciences, IIT Madras Kalpana Karunakaran, Humanities and Social Sciences, IIT Madras Milind Brahme, Humanities and Social Sciences, IIT Madras Ajit Menon, MIDS, Chennai C. Lakshmanan, MIDS, Chennai S. Anandhi, MIDS, Chennai Kripa Ananthpur, MIDS, Chennai D. Jayaraj, MIDS, Chennai Vijaybaskar, MIDS, Chennai A. Mangai, Chennai PK Abdul Rahiman, Madras University, Chennai -- *Ananya Vajpeyi, PhD * *Associate Fellow* *Centre for the Study of Developing Societies* *29 Rajpur Road, Civil Lines* *New Delhi 110054* *e: vajpeyi at csds.in * *ext: 229* *http://www.csds.in/faculty_ananya_vajpeyi.htm * *http://www.hup.harvard.edu/catalog.php?isbn=9780674048959&content=book * *http://www.carnegiecouncil.org/programs/gen/gefellows/current/ananya_vajpeyi.html * -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From nmisra at gmail.com Thu Mar 10 10:07:57 2016 From: nmisra at gmail.com (Nityanand Misra) Date: Thu, 10 Mar 16 15:37:57 +0530 Subject: =?utf-8?B?W0lORE9MT0dZXSBFeGFtcGxlKHMpIG9mIOKAmOG5o3Iv4KS34KWN4KSw4KWN4oCZ?= Message-ID: Dear list In Ulrich Stiehl?s list of 807 conjuncts attested in Sanskrit, the two-consonant conjunct ??r? (????) is listed as the 786th entry (third from left in last line of page 4 of the PDF under http://www.sanskritweb.net/sansdocs/mathe.pdf). I have been unable to trace any word in which this conjunct would occur in Sanskrit. Prefix and infix expression search on Advanced search on Monier Williams, V?caspatyam, and ?abdakalpadruma? yielded no result (except for ???????? in M-W which has the three-syllable conjunct k?r) Does anybody know of an example of a word or verse/sentence in which the usage of this conjunct is attested? Thanks, Nityanand -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rpjain1903 at gmail.com Thu Mar 10 10:09:42 2016 From: rpjain1903 at gmail.com (R. P. Jain) Date: Thu, 10 Mar 16 15:39:42 +0530 Subject: [INDOLOGY] PALI METERS PUBLISHED BY PALI TEXT SOCIETY Message-ID: Dear Members I require one copy of the above book. Neither PTS has the book nor it is available in any site. Kindly help me to get the book or PDF file at the earliest convenient. Sincerely Rajeev Jain Your enemy is your greatest teacher ... -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From chris.clark at inbox.com Thu Mar 10 10:59:06 2016 From: chris.clark at inbox.com (Chris Clark) Date: Thu, 10 Mar 16 02:59:06 -0800 Subject: [INDOLOGY] PALI METERS PUBLISHED BY PALI TEXT SOCIETY In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <88FF19F2871.00000718chris.clark@inbox.com> Dear Rajeev Jain, The PTS have a downloadable scan of this book on their website (www.palitext.com/palitext/PaliMetre.pdf). Best regards, Chris Chris Clark Honorary Associate University of Sydney --- Dear Members I require one copy of the above book. Neither PTS has the book nor it is available in any site. Kindly help me to get the book or PDF file at the earliest convenient. Sincerely Rajeev Jain Your enemy is your greatest teacher ... From kevinryan at fas.harvard.edu Thu Mar 10 13:42:14 2016 From: kevinryan at fas.harvard.edu (Kevin M. Ryan) Date: Thu, 10 Mar 16 08:42:14 -0500 Subject: =?utf-8?B?UmU6IFtJTkRPTE9HWV0gRXhhbXBsZShzKSBvZiDigJjhuaNyL+Ckt+CljeCksOCljeKAmQ==?= In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <56E179B6.60906@fas.harvard.edu> Dear Nityanand, Here are a few items I found in the GRETIL corpus: aju?ran (RV 1.71.1c) pari?rita? (3x), pari?rayati (1x), mi?ram (?atapatha Br?hma?a) zu?r??am???n?m (Bh?gavata Pur??a 1.1.13) It could also in principle be found across a word boundary, when a word is left to stand with final ? (e.g. jyoti? rajas, Nirukta). Best, Kevin On 3/10/16 5:07 AM, Nityanand Misra wrote: > Dear list > > In Ulrich Stiehl?s list of 807 conjuncts attested in Sanskrit, the > two-consonant conjunct ??r? (????) is listed as the 786th entry (third > from left in last line of page 4 of the PDF under > http://www.sanskritweb.net/sansdocs/mathe.pdf > ). > > I have been unable to trace any word in which this conjunct would occur > in Sanskrit. > > Prefix and infix expression search on Advanced search on Monier > Williams, V?caspatyam, and ?abdakalpadruma? yielded no result (except > for ???????? in M-W which has the three-syllable conjunct k?r) > > Does anybody know of an example of a word or verse/sentence in which the > usage of this conjunct is attested? > > Thanks, Nityanand > > > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) > From mmdesh at umich.edu Thu Mar 10 15:03:37 2016 From: mmdesh at umich.edu (Madhav Deshpande) Date: Thu, 10 Mar 16 10:03:37 -0500 Subject: =?utf-8?B?UmU6IFtJTkRPTE9HWV0JRXhhbXBsZShzKSBvZiDigJjhuaNyL+Ckt+CljeCksOCljeKAmQ==?= In-Reply-To: <56E179B6.60906@fas.harvard.edu> Message-ID: Hello Kevin, Of the instances of "?r" that you have collected from GRETIL, the ?gvedic instance of aju?ran is the only one that appears to be a genuine instance, while the other occurrences appear to be orthographic variants for an original "?r," rather than being genuine occurrences of "?r". In any case, it is good to know that there is at least one genuine occurrence of "?r" in the form aju?ran. Madhav Deshpande On Thu, Mar 10, 2016 at 8:42 AM, Kevin M. Ryan wrote: > Dear Nityanand, > > Here are a few items I found in the GRETIL corpus: > > aju?ran (RV 1.71.1c) > pari?rita? (3x), pari?rayati (1x), mi?ram (?atapatha Br?hma?a) > zu?r??am???n?m (Bh?gavata Pur??a 1.1.13) > > It could also in principle be found across a word boundary, when a word is > left to stand with final ? (e.g. jyoti? rajas, Nirukta). > > Best, > Kevin > > > On 3/10/16 5:07 AM, Nityanand Misra wrote: > >> Dear list >> >> In Ulrich Stiehl?s list of 807 conjuncts attested in Sanskrit, the >> two-consonant conjunct ??r? (????) is listed as the 786th entry (third >> from left in last line of page 4 of the PDF under >> http://www.sanskritweb.net/sansdocs/mathe.pdf >> < >> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.sanskritweb.net_sansdocs_mathe.pdf&d=CwMFaQ&c=WO-RGvefibhHBZq3fL85hQ&r=NqkhTuN1wmPpoGV7HfN9h9sjzhrforkotCX8AEc5N5k&m=I2YYnpny_JHcilQBv0xpTkUgPu2gNjPwORPDYANfhnY&s=HkqxA0_r_eDluRij4xM7zMHZVLLHzba0JOX-99c58Ac&e= >> >). >> >> I have been unable to trace any word in which this conjunct would occur >> in Sanskrit. >> >> Prefix and infix expression search on Advanced search on Monier >> Williams, V?caspatyam, and ?abdakalpadruma? yielded no result (except >> for ???????? in M-W which has the three-syllable conjunct k?r) >> >> Does anybody know of an example of a word or verse/sentence in which the >> usage of this conjunct is attested? >> >> Thanks, Nityanand >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> INDOLOGY mailing list >> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info >> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing >> committee) >> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or >> unsubscribe) >> >> > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing > committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or > unsubscribe) -- Madhav M. Deshpande Professor of Sanskrit and Linguistics Department of Asian Languages and Cultures 202 South Thayer Street, Suite 6111 The University of Michigan Ann Arbor, MI 48104-1608, USA -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From kevinryan at fas.harvard.edu Thu Mar 10 16:38:54 2016 From: kevinryan at fas.harvard.edu (Kevin M. Ryan) Date: Thu, 10 Mar 16 11:38:54 -0500 Subject: =?utf-8?B?UmU6IFtJTkRPTE9HWV0gRXhhbXBsZShzKSBvZiDigJjhuaNyL+Ckt+CljeCksOCljeKAmQ==?= In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <56E1A31E.1090607@fas.harvard.edu> Hello Madhav, Thank you for this clarification; of course you're right, and for that reason, aju?ran is surely the best "textbook" example. At any rate, I took the question to be about attested forms, regardless of etymological correctness. "Genuine," as you've demonstrated as much as anyone, can be problematic. Natural languages and orally transmitted texts evolve. If these instances of e.g. pari?rita? are of modern provenance, then we can dismiss them, but if they're not (all I can say, at least, is that they don't seem to be mere typos), things become more interesting: ?r and ?r are not ligatures that are normally confused, but in the M?dhya?dina ?B, we have both pari?rita? and pari?rita? attested in interspersed loci across the text (albeit the latter about ten times as frequently). E.g. 10.4.3[13] tady??? pari?r?ta?. If this is some phonologically motivated variation, such as a misapplication of RUKI, such non-standard attestations have linguistic value, as they do in texts like the RV, which is of course replete with such variants. In this case, I don't know the first thing about it, but it looks interesting. Best, Kevin On 3/10/16 10:03 AM, Madhav Deshpande wrote: > Hello Kevin, > > Of the instances of "?r" that you have collected from GRETIL, the > ?gvedic instance of aju?ran is the only one that appears to be a genuine > instance, while the other occurrences appear to be orthographic variants > for an original "?r," rather than being genuine occurrences of "?r". > In any case, it is good to know that there is at least one genuine > occurrence of "?r" in the form aju?ran. > > Madhav Deshpande > > On Thu, Mar 10, 2016 at 8:42 AM, Kevin M. Ryan > > wrote: > > Dear Nityanand, > > Here are a few items I found in the GRETIL corpus: > > aju?ran (RV 1.71.1c) > pari?rita? (3x), pari?rayati (1x), mi?ram (?atapatha Br?hma?a) > zu?r??am???n?m (Bh?gavata Pur??a 1.1.13) > > It could also in principle be found across a word boundary, when a > word is left to stand with final ? (e.g. jyoti? rajas, Nirukta). > > Best, > Kevin > > > On 3/10/16 5:07 AM, Nityanand Misra wrote: > > Dear list > > In Ulrich Stiehl?s list of 807 conjuncts attested in Sanskrit, the > two-consonant conjunct ??r? (????) is listed as the 786th entry (third > from left in last line of page 4 of the PDF under > http://www.sanskritweb.net/sansdocs/mathe.pdf > > ). > > I have been unable to trace any word in which this conjunct > would occur > in Sanskrit. > > Prefix and infix expression search on Advanced search on Monier > Williams, V?caspatyam, and ?abdakalpadruma? yielded no result > (except > for ???????? in M-W which has the three-syllable conjunct k?r) > > Does anybody know of an example of a word or verse/sentence in > which the > usage of this conjunct is attested? > > Thanks, Nityanand > > > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info > (messages to the > list's managing committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info > > (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) > > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info > (messages to the list's > managing committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info > > (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) > > > > > -- > Madhav M. Deshpande > Professor of Sanskrit and Linguistics > Department of Asian Languages and Cultures > 202 South Thayer Street, Suite 6111 > The University of Michigan > Ann Arbor, MI 48104-1608, USA From sellmers at gmx.de Thu Mar 10 18:47:54 2016 From: sellmers at gmx.de (Sven Sellmer) Date: Thu, 10 Mar 16 19:47:54 +0100 Subject: =?utf-8?Q?[INDOLOGY]_Student_Conference_in_Pozna=C5=84,_Poland?= Message-ID: Dear Colleagues! On behalf of my students I would like to bring to your attention the following invitation to the 8th edition of MESIC, the annual Middle European Student Indology Conference. The organisers would be extremely grateful for forwarding it to any potentially interested students. Thanks and regards, Sven ********************************* Dr. Sven Sellmer Adam Mickiewicz University Institute of Oriental Studies South Asia Unit ul. 28 Czerwca 1956 r. nr 196 61-485 Pozna? POLAND sven at amu.edu.pl 8th annual Middle European Student Indology Conference 28th - 30th April 2016 Adam Mickiewicz University, Pozna?, Poland Dear Students and Friends, The Students' Scientific Association "Dharmavid" and Adam Mickiewicz University are pleased to inform you that the 8th annual Middle European Student Indology Conference (MESIC) will be held in Pozna? on 28th - 30th April 2016. Check out our FB page: https://www.facebook.com/mesic8poznan/?fref=ts The aim of the Conference is to broaden knowledge about the culture, tradition and history of modern and ancient India. The program of MESIC 8 includes not only presentations prepared by students, but also workshops of different kinds. Therefore, we would like to invite you to submit papers. The time limit for each presentation is 30 minutes (20 minutes lecture presentation and 10 minutes discussion). The deadline for all abstracts is March 20. The participation fee is 35 euros, whereas each person presenting a paper is to pay a conference fee of 25 euros. Polish participants are requested to contact directly: mesic2016 at gmail.com Please send the abstracts to: mesic2016 at gmail.com We reserve the right to limit the number of presentations The Conference will be held in English. The price includes a gala dinner, an enchanting show of Bharatanatyam, three-day accomodation and lunch. Refreshments and conference materials for each participant will also be provided. Once more, we invite you to be part of this year's Middle European Student Indology Conference in Pozna? and we are impatiently awaiting your response. Conference organiser: Scientific Association " Dharmavid" Contact: mesic2016 at gmail.com Participants are requested to tranfer money to: Adam Mickiewicz University Oriental Studies 28 czerwca 1956 nr 198 61-485 Poznan, Poland IBAN: PL77 1090 1362 0000 0000 3601 7903 In the title of transfer should be entered: K00000568 SWIFT: WBKPPLPP The deadline for all payments is 1st April. From deven.m.patel at gmail.com Thu Mar 10 19:48:00 2016 From: deven.m.patel at gmail.com (Deven Patel) Date: Thu, 10 Mar 16 14:48:00 -0500 Subject: =?utf-8?Q?[INDOLOGY]_Origin_of_Mah=C4=81c=C4=ABna?= Message-ID: Dear list members, A Sinologist colleague of mine has raised the following question to me. Any thoughts would be appreciated: Conventional wisdom among certain Sinologists is that the Western name "China" derives from the Sanskrit Mah?c?na, etc. Sinologists do not seem to know, or at least do not cite, sources for this attribution. How old is the name, and how trustworthy are the texts? Thank you, Deven -- Deven M. Patel South Asia Studies University of Pennsylvania -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From david_buchta at brown.edu Thu Mar 10 20:15:38 2016 From: david_buchta at brown.edu (Buchta, David) Date: Thu, 10 Mar 16 15:15:38 -0500 Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_[INDOLOGY]_Origin_of_Mah=C4=81c=C4=ABna?= In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hi Deven, I've seen c?na, without "mah?-" not infrequently. See, for an example, Mah?bh?rata 2.23.19 of the critical edition. I can't recall where else off the top of my head. >From GRETIL: 02,023.019a sa kir?tai? ca c?nai? ca v?ta? pr?gjyoti?o 'bhavat 02,023.019c anyai? ca bahubhir yodhai? s?gar?n?pav?sibhi? Best, David David Buchta Lecturer in Sanskrit Department of Classics Brown University On Thu, Mar 10, 2016 at 2:48 PM, Deven Patel wrote: > Dear list members, > > A Sinologist colleague of mine has raised the following question to me. > Any thoughts would be appreciated: > > Conventional wisdom among certain Sinologists is that the Western name > "China" derives from the Sanskrit Mah?c?na, etc. Sinologists do not seem > to know, or at least do not cite, sources for this attribution. How old > is the name, and how trustworthy are the texts? > > Thank you, > > Deven > -- > Deven M. Patel > South Asia Studies > University of Pennsylvania > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing > committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or > unsubscribe) > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Joseph.Walser at tufts.edu Thu Mar 10 20:18:29 2016 From: Joseph.Walser at tufts.edu (Walser, Joseph) Date: Thu, 10 Mar 16 20:18:29 +0000 Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_[INDOLOGY]_Origin_of_Mah=C4=81c=C4=ABna?= In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I have been teaching that c?na in Sanskrit sources refers to the Qin dynasty. I have no idea where I got that, so someone correct me if I am wrong. -j Joseph Walser Associate Professor Department of Religion Tufts University ________________________________ From: INDOLOGY [indology-bounces at list.indology.info] on behalf of Buchta, David [david_buchta at brown.edu] Sent: Thursday, March 10, 2016 3:15 PM To: Indology Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] Origin of Mah?c?na Hi Deven, I've seen c?na, without "mah?-" not infrequently. See, for an example, Mah?bh?rata 2.23.19 of the critical edition. I can't recall where else off the top of my head. >From GRETIL: 02,023.019a sa kir?tai? ca c?nai? ca v?ta? pr?gjyoti?o 'bhavat 02,023.019c anyai? ca bahubhir yodhai? s?gar?n?pav?sibhi? Best, David David Buchta Lecturer in Sanskrit Department of Classics Brown University On Thu, Mar 10, 2016 at 2:48 PM, Deven Patel > wrote: Dear list members, A Sinologist colleague of mine has raised the following question to me. Any thoughts would be appreciated: Conventional wisdom among certain Sinologists is that the Western name "China" derives from the Sanskrit Mah?c?na, etc. Sinologists do not seem to know, or at least do not cite, sources for this attribution. How old is the name, and how trustworthy are the texts? Thank you, Deven -- Deven M. Patel South Asia Studies University of Pennsylvania _______________________________________________ INDOLOGY mailing list INDOLOGY at list.indology.info indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mkapstei at uchicago.edu Thu Mar 10 20:25:06 2016 From: mkapstei at uchicago.edu (Matthew Kapstein) Date: Thu, 10 Mar 16 20:25:06 +0000 Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_[INDOLOGY]_Origin_of_Mah=C4=81c=C4=ABna?= In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <82C3E42590D939418C74DD76B97DDED047B6665E@xm-mbx-04-prod> Mah?c?na becomes current in Buddhist tantric materials of the late first - early second millennium and perhaps indifferently refers to China, Tibet and neighboring regions. The derivation from the name of the Qin dynasty has been contested. I believe that Endymion Wilkinson's Manual of Chinese History has something on this: http://www.amazon.com/Chinese-History-Harvard-Yenching-Institute-Monograph/dp/0674067150 Matthew Kapstein Directeur d'?tudes, Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes Numata Visiting Professor of Buddhist Studies, The University of Chicago ________________________________ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mark.mcclish at northwestern.edu Thu Mar 10 20:33:12 2016 From: mark.mcclish at northwestern.edu (Mark McClish) Date: Thu, 10 Mar 16 20:33:12 +0000 Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_[INDOLOGY]_Origin_of_Mah=C4=81c=C4=ABna?= In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <874727E8-0332-4F98-9757-023D58C4E4E6@northwestern.edu> Hi Deven, There is also a reference in the extant Artha??stra (from the Kyoto edition) KAZ02.11.107/ maagadhikaa pauNDrikaa sauvarNa.kuDyakaa ca pattra.uurNaa // KAZ02.11.108/ naaga.vRkSo likuco bakulo vaTaz ca yonayaH // KAZ02.11.109/ piitikaa naaga.vRkSikaa // KAZ02.11.110/ go.dhuuma.varNaa laikucii // KAZ02.11.111/ zvetaa baakulii // KAZ02.11.112/ zeSaa nava.niita.varNaa // KAZ02.11.113/ taasaaM sauvarNa.kuDyakaa zreSThaa // KAZ02.11.114/ tayaa kauzeyaM ciina.paTTaaz ca ciina.bhuumijaa vyaakhyaataaH // I?m inclined to agree with Witzel (2006: 488), however, that this reference has likely been added later. Best, Mark On Mar 10, 2016, at 1:48 PM, Deven Patel > wrote: Dear list members, A Sinologist colleague of mine has raised the following question to me. Any thoughts would be appreciated: Conventional wisdom among certain Sinologists is that the Western name "China" derives from the Sanskrit Mah?c?na, etc. Sinologists do not seem to know, or at least do not cite, sources for this attribution. How old is the name, and how trustworthy are the texts? Thank you, Deven -- Deven M. Patel South Asia Studies University of Pennsylvania _______________________________________________ INDOLOGY mailing list INDOLOGY at list.indology.info indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Michael.Slouber at wwu.edu Thu Mar 10 20:36:03 2016 From: Michael.Slouber at wwu.edu (Michael Slouber) Date: Thu, 10 Mar 16 20:36:03 +0000 Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_[INDOLOGY]_Origin_of_Mah=C4=81c=C4=ABna?= In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <43C91233-1F1F-4E3D-A8BA-209FB660918B@wwu.edu> Thomas Trautmann cites the mention of silk as ?China cloth?---c?napa???? ca c?nabh?mij? (2.11.114) in Kautilya?s Artha Shastra. Cited in his *India: Brief History of a Civilization* (OUP, 2011: 131). ?? Michael Slouber Assistant Professor of South Asia Department of Liberal Studies Western Washington University On ???? ????? ??, at ??:?? ?????????, Deven Patel > wrote: Dear list members, A Sinologist colleague of mine has raised the following question to me. Any thoughts would be appreciated: Conventional wisdom among certain Sinologists is that the Western name "China" derives from the Sanskrit Mah?c?na, etc. Sinologists do not seem to know, or at least do not cite, sources for this attribution. How old is the name, and how trustworthy are the texts? Thank you, Deven -- Deven M. Patel South Asia Studies University of Pennsylvania _______________________________________________ INDOLOGY mailing list INDOLOGY at list.indology.info indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ondracka at ff.cuni.cz Thu Mar 10 20:37:15 2016 From: ondracka at ff.cuni.cz (Lubomir Ondracka) Date: Thu, 10 Mar 16 21:37:15 +0100 Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_[INDOLOGY]_Origin_of_Mah=C4=81c=C4=ABna?= In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20160310213715.a3cb344a170a92b7f25ac2d6@ff.cuni.cz> Mayrhofer (KEWA: 392) "C?n??, C?nak?? m. plur. die Chinesen ... Wohl vom Reichsnamen Ts'in [= Qin]. And he refers to some older sources. LO On Thu, 10 Mar 2016 20:18:29 +0000 "Walser, Joseph" wrote: > I have been teaching that c?na in Sanskrit sources refers to the Qin dynasty. I have no idea where I got that, so someone correct me if I am wrong. > > -j > > > Joseph Walser > > Associate Professor > > Department of Religion > > Tufts University > > ________________________________ > From: INDOLOGY [indology-bounces at list.indology.info] on behalf of Buchta, David [david_buchta at brown.edu] > Sent: Thursday, March 10, 2016 3:15 PM > To: Indology > Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] Origin of Mah?c?na > > Hi Deven, > > I've seen c?na, without "mah?-" not infrequently. See, for an example, Mah?bh?rata 2.23.19 of the critical edition. I can't recall where else off the top of my head. > > From GRETIL: > 02,023.019a sa kir?tai? ca c?nai? ca v?ta? pr?gjyoti?o 'bhavat > 02,023.019c anyai? ca bahubhir yodhai? s?gar?n?pav?sibhi? > > Best, > David > > David Buchta > Lecturer in Sanskrit > Department of Classics > Brown University > > On Thu, Mar 10, 2016 at 2:48 PM, Deven Patel > wrote: > Dear list members, > > A Sinologist colleague of mine has raised the following question to me. Any thoughts would be appreciated: > > Conventional wisdom among certain Sinologists is that the Western name "China" derives from the Sanskrit Mah?c?na, etc. Sinologists do not seem to know, or at least do not cite, sources for this attribution. How old is the name, and how trustworthy are the texts? > > Thank you, > > Deven > -- > Deven M. Patel > South Asia Studies > University of Pennsylvania > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) > From paoloe.rosati at gmail.com Thu Mar 10 21:00:28 2016 From: paoloe.rosati at gmail.com (Paolo Eugenio Rosati) Date: Thu, 10 Mar 16 22:00:28 +0100 Subject: =?utf-8?Q?[INDOLOGY]_R:__Origin_of_Mah=C4=81c=C4=ABna?= In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <56e1e094.49f9c20a.dd60d.ffffca1f@mx.google.com> Hello Deven, I noticed the name Mahacina occurred in the Cinacara Tantra, where is narrated that Vashistha went there from Kamarupa (Assam) to learn from the Buddha the Kaula system of panchamakara/panchatattva, needed to worship the goddess Tara/Kamakhya. If I remember well, L. Biernacki (2007. The Renowned Goddess of Desire; and an article on Vashstha published in 2006) speculated that for the text's compiler(s) the Buddha is an avatara of Vishnu. Sorry for lack of diacritics but I'm using the mobile to write. Best, Paolo Paolo E. Rosati Oriental Archaeologist PhD candidate in Civilisations of Asia & Africa Section: South Asia Dep. Italian Institute of Oriental Studies (ISO) 'Sapienza' University of Rome paoloe.rosati at uniroma1.it paoloe.rosati at gmail.com Mobile: (+39) 3387383472 Skype: paoloe.rosati ----- Messaggio originale ----- Da: "Deven Patel" Inviato: ?10/?03/?2016 20:49 A: "indology at list.indology.info" Oggetto: [INDOLOGY] Origin of Mah?c?na Dear list members, A Sinologist colleague of mine has raised the following question to me. Any thoughts would be appreciated: Conventional wisdom among certain Sinologists is that the Western name "China" derives from the Sanskrit Mah?c?na, etc. Sinologists do not seem to know, or at least do not cite, sources for this attribution. How old is the name, and how trustworthy are the texts? Thank you, Deven -- Deven M. Patel South Asia Studies University of Pennsylvania -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From yogacara at gmail.com Thu Mar 10 21:09:56 2016 From: yogacara at gmail.com (Dan Lusthaus) Date: Thu, 10 Mar 16 16:09:56 -0500 Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_[INDOLOGY]_Origin_of_Mah=C4=81c=C4=ABna?= In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <8F2D9B603ED1427998F59F73372743B2@Dan> There seems to be some confusion about the source of the name "China" in Western usage. The question has to be divided into two parts: 1. Where does the name China originate? 2. How did it become adopted in Western usage as the standard name for the country, since the Chinese themselves have used many other names to identify themselves, their country, their language, etc? The first question is easily answered. The name ultimately derives from the Qin (pronounced Chin). Qin was one of the early "states" of pre-Imperial China, and was the first to conquer all the others and unify China into a single state in the 3rd c BCE, which was then superceded by the Han Dynasty. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qin_dynasty The terracotta army was built to guard the tomb of the Qin emperor. Later the name was taken by a later dynasty: On the Later Qin (384-417 CE), https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Later_Qin During the Later Qin, many Buddhist texts were translated. For instance, the first text in the Taisho edition of the Buddhist canon is the D?rgh?gama, tr. in 413 CE, which was during the Later Qin Dynasty ?? (houqin). In its preface, one finds terms like: ? Qin (referring to China), ?? Daqin = Great Qin (referring to China, and the source of the Sanskrit Mah?c?na) ?? Qinguo = Country of Qin. The term Qin occurs nearly 12,000 times in the Chinese Buddhist canon (though sometimes referring to something other than China or Chinese, e.g., ??? Julouqin = Krakucchanda, one of the Seven Buddhas of the past.). The self-reference by Chinese to their own country and culture and rulers, etc. as Qin, Daqin, etc. continued through many other periods, not just these dynasties. Xuanzang (Hsuan-tsang), e.g., in the 7th century, refers to China as Daqin. The second question is murkier. Secondary sources complicate the problem. Some seem unaware that for many centuries the Chinese referred to themselves as Qin and Daqin (among many other designations), since that is not a modern name in present usage, and writers familiar with current usage seem unaware of the name's history. Some cite Persian as the route by which the term entered western usage, sometimes attributing its introduction to the West through Marco Polo. Some additionally speculate that the term came into Persian from the Sanskrit. It is worth noting, however, that the Hebrew term for China -- already in the Bible -- is Sin (???), and the same goes for Arabic (al-Sin, ?????). The Persian Chin (???) could just as easily have come from Semitic sources as from Indian sources. Dan Lusthaus ----- Original Message ----- From: Deven Patel Subject: [INDOLOGY] Origin of Mah?c?na Dear list members, A Sinologist colleague of mine has raised the following question to me. Any thoughts would be appreciated: Conventional wisdom among certain Sinologists is that the Western name "China" derives from the Sanskrit Mah?c?na, etc. Sinologists do not seem to know, or at least do not cite, sources for this attribution. How old is the name, and how trustworthy are the texts? Thank you, Deven -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From yogacara at gmail.com Thu Mar 10 22:56:37 2016 From: yogacara at gmail.com (Dan Lusthaus) Date: Thu, 10 Mar 16 17:56:37 -0500 Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_[INDOLOGY]_Origin_of_Mah=C4=81c=C4=ABna?= In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <6B9366B4DFF2450C96858EE42E86AC53@Dan> Let me add one additional complication. Two millennia ago the Chinese used the name Daqin (Great Qin) to refer not just to themselves, but to refer to the Roman Empire. https://depts.washington.edu/silkroad/texts/hhshu/notes11.html from the notes to the translation by John E. Hill of "A Translation of the Chronicle on the ?Western Regions? from the Hou Hanshu. Based on a report by General Ban Yong to Emperor An (107-125 CE) near the end of his reign, with a few later additions. Compiled by Fan Ye (398-446 CE)." https://depts.washington.edu/silkroad/texts/hhshu/houhanshutextonly.html Enjoy the confusion! Dan Lusthaus -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ondracka at ff.cuni.cz Fri Mar 11 00:01:11 2016 From: ondracka at ff.cuni.cz (Lubomir Ondracka) Date: Fri, 11 Mar 16 01:01:11 +0100 Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_[INDOLOGY]_Origin_of_Mah=C4=81c=C4=ABna?= In-Reply-To: <8F2D9B603ED1427998F59F73372743B2@Dan> Message-ID: <20160311010111.faef209cb8f61aac5eb27cc5@ff.cuni.cz> It seems highly improbable that the Hebrew Sin (????) used in Tanach could be connected to China: http://biblehub.com/hebrew/5512.htm And this meaning is not attested even in Talmud and Midrashic literature (see Jastrow for ?????, p. 982). It would be interesting to know since when does Sin in Hebrew mean China. It could be rather modern usage, I don't know. LO > It is worth noting, however, that the Hebrew term for China -- already in the Bible -- is Sin (???), and the same goes for Arabic (al-Sin, ?????). The Persian Chin (???) could just as easily have come from Semitic sources as from Indian sources. > > Dan Lusthaus > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Deven Patel > Subject: [INDOLOGY] Origin of Mah?c?na > > > Dear list members, > > > A Sinologist colleague of mine has raised the following question to me. Any thoughts would be appreciated: > > > Conventional wisdom among certain Sinologists is that the Western name "China" derives from the Sanskrit Mah?c?na, etc. Sinologists do not seem to know, or at least do not cite, sources for this attribution. How old is the name, and how trustworthy are the texts? > > > > Thank you, > > > Deven From loriliai.biernacki at colorado.edu Fri Mar 11 00:14:38 2016 From: loriliai.biernacki at colorado.edu (Loriliai Biernacki) Date: Fri, 11 Mar 16 00:14:38 +0000 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Origin of Mah?c?na In-Reply-To: <6B9366B4DFF2450C96858EE42E86AC53@Dan> Message-ID: Certainly not the oldest usage, the term is found in Eastern ??kta texts from the late medieval period as a way of blaming the Chinese for some of the more scandalous tantric practices, called the c?n?c?ra "what the Chinese do." There is also a specific text, C?n?c?ra Tantra devoted to these left-handed practices. All best, Loriliai Biernacki From: INDOLOGY > on behalf of Dan Lusthaus > Date: Thursday, March 10, 2016 at 3:56 PM To: Indology > Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] Origin of Mah?c?na Let me add one additional complication. Two millennia ago the Chinese used the name Daqin (Great Qin) to refer not just to themselves, but to refer to the Roman Empire. https://depts.washington.edu/silkroad/texts/hhshu/notes11.html from the notes to the translation by John E. Hill of "A Translation of the Chronicle on the 'Western Regions' from the Hou Hanshu. Based on a report by General Ban Yong to Emperor An (107-125 CE) near the end of his reign, with a few later additions. Compiled by Fan Ye (398-446 CE)." https://depts.washington.edu/silkroad/texts/hhshu/houhanshutextonly.html Enjoy the confusion! Dan Lusthaus -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From yogacara at gmail.com Fri Mar 11 01:58:49 2016 From: yogacara at gmail.com (Dan Lusthaus) Date: Thu, 10 Mar 16 20:58:49 -0500 Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_[INDOLOGY]_Origin_of_Mah=C4=81c=C4=ABna?= Message-ID: There has been some controversy as to whether the biblical Sin is China or somewhere else (speculations abound, from Ethiopia, to a city in Egypt, to Phoenicia, to its cognate Sinai, to areas hidden away in corners of Mesopotamia, and so on). The strongest argument against Sin (or "the people of Sinim" -- Sinim is the plural of Sin) referring to China is that it appears in the book of Isaiah, the initial portions of which were believed to have been written in the 8th c BCE or so, and the reference to Sinim occurs in the section scholars call Deutero-Isaiah, believed to come from the 6th c BCE or so. at which times the existence of a kingdom of Qin is dubious, and the various Chinese kingdoms were still centuries away from being unified under a Qin ruler. Isaiah, however, has been subject to many interpolations and the hands of organized, systematic revisionists, so the date of individual passages can vary even in the same section. The indication from Isaiah (49:12) is that it is someplace remote that is neither north nor west. That leaves south and east. Welcome to open season on speculation. That the idea of a remote people at the ends of the earth would be to the East rather than the south, for which we have little Biblical evidence of awareness of "remote" cultures -- Egypt and Phoenicia, for instance, were part of normal travel routes and considered rather proximate -- seems a reasonable assumption. Similar controversies attempted to dismiss references to India and Solomon's trade with India, but more recent discoveries have added legitimacy to the biblical references (the materials said to be imported were indeed coming from India at that time, etc.). So the reference to China in the Bible may not "highly improbable," if not fully proven. The efforts to identify alternate locations, in fact, are the "highly improbable" speculations, driven by an impulse to pose alternatives rather than meaningful evidence. While in recent years the biblical references to India are coming to be accepted and the skepticism has faded, the question of the reference to Sin has not undergone serious recent evaluations. Since Arabic and Persian and Syriac all use something similar to Chin / Sin / Tsin for China, and did so from early on, it is unreasonable to assert that Hebrew alone, of the regional languages, lacked that information, as much as some scholars have strained to insist on that conclusion. That it is a modern addition to Hebrew is "highly improbable." Dan Lusthaus. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lubomir Ondracka" > It seems highly improbable that the Hebrew Sin (????) used in Tanach could > be connected to China: > http://biblehub.com/hebrew/5512.htm > > And this meaning is not attested even in Talmud and Midrashic literature > (see Jastrow for ?????, p. 982). It would be interesting to know since > when does Sin in Hebrew mean China. It could be rather modern usage, I > don't know. > > LO From wujastyk at gmail.com Fri Mar 11 03:49:47 2016 From: wujastyk at gmail.com (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Thu, 10 Mar 16 20:49:47 -0700 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Balagopalastuti In-Reply-To: Message-ID: ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Tim Cahill To: INDOLOGY Cc: Date: Mon, 7 Mar 2016 09:07:07 -0600 Subject: [INDOLOGY] B?lagop?lastuti > Is Bilvamangala's Balagopalastuti the same as his Krishnakaranamrutam? No, they are separate works. See the editions w/ trans. by Francis Wilson: The Bilvama?galastava Edited and Translated with an Introduction, Leiden: Brill,1973, The Love of Krishna: The K???akar??m?ta of Bilvama?gala, Philadelphia: University of Pennsylvania Press, 1 975. More recently, Dominik Wujastyk has published on this with reference to an important illustrated manuscript. See The Love of Krsna In poems and paintings. In *Pearls of the Orient* (ed. N. Allen), pp. 87-105. He has kindly made this available in a pdf. Worldcat lists a dissertation by Elinor W. Gadon. An iconographical analysis of the Ba?lagopa?lastuti : early Kr?s?n?abhakti in Gujarat best, Tim Cahill ? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From wujastyk at gmail.com Fri Mar 11 04:17:46 2016 From: wujastyk at gmail.com (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Thu, 10 Mar 16 21:17:46 -0700 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Origin of Mah?c?na In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I'm an outsider in this discussion, so pardon any naive remarks. I was under the impression, though, from something I read somewhere (that statement wouldn't get past Wikipedia) that C?na in Tantrika texts, especially the *Mah?c?n?c?ratantra*, referred to what we today call the Assam-Burma region. Meghalaya, Manipur, Nagaland, Tripura, Northern Burma that sort of area. Best, Dominik -- Professor Dominik Wujastyk* Singhmar Chair in Classical Indian Society and Polity Department of History and Classics University of Alberta, Canada -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From klaus.karttunen at helsinki.fi Fri Mar 11 09:20:11 2016 From: klaus.karttunen at helsinki.fi (Klaus Karttunen) Date: Fri, 11 Mar 16 11:20:11 +0200 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Origin of Mah?c?na In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <93F99324-3B9B-4C51-AFF5-C6C3749EFC4D@helsinki.fi> Dear Collagues, in Greek and Latin China was known as Serica, from the first century BCE on, but this signifies just the country of Seres or ?silk-producers?. In Ptolemy?s Geography Serica is northern China, while southern, reached from sea, is the country of Sinai. Cosmas Indicopleustes in the early 6th century had Tzinista for China, perhaps from early Arabic or Persian. Beside KA? and Mbh, C?na and Mah?c?na are met in late parts of the P?li Canon, references in Malalasekera (at home, I cannot check it now). Marco Polo did not introduce China, for him China was Cathay (a late name related to Russian Kitai). Portuguese China is first attested in 1516 and could be learnt in India or South-East Asia, althougn Persian ch?n? as medieval name of porcelain may have influenced. The s-form is curiously found in the name of orange in many European languages (e.g. German Apfelsine), ?the apple of China?. Just to show that the names of China have been discussed quite a long time, I add an early reference: Klaproth, J. 1827. ?Sur les noms de la Chine?, JA 10, 53-61 (with notes by E. Jacquet, JA 2:10, 1832, 438-453 & 2:11, 1832, 188f. Best, Klaus Klaus Karttunen South Asian and Indoeuropean Studies Asian and African Studies, Department of World Cultures PL 59 (Unioninkatu 38 B) 00014 University of Helsinki, FINLAND Tel +358-(0)2941 4482418 Fax +358-(0)2941 22094 Klaus.Karttunen at helsinki.fi > On 11 Mar 2016, at 06:17, Dominik Wujastyk wrote: > > I'm an outsider in this discussion, so pardon any naive remarks. I was under the impression, though, from something I read somewhere (that statement wouldn't get past Wikipedia) that C?na in Tantrika texts, especially the Mah?c?n?c?ratantra, referred to what we today call the Assam-Burma region. Meghalaya, Manipur, Nagaland, Tripura, Northern Burma that sort of area. > > Best, > Dominik > > -- > Professor Dominik Wujastyk* > Singhmar Chair in Classical Indian Society and Polity > Department of History and Classics > University of Alberta, Canada > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bill.m.mak at gmail.com Fri Mar 11 16:01:07 2016 From: bill.m.mak at gmail.com (Bill Mak) Date: Fri, 11 Mar 16 23:01:07 +0700 Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_[INDOLOGY]_Origin_of_Mah=C4=81c=C4=ABna?= In-Reply-To: <93F99324-3B9B-4C51-AFF5-C6C3749EFC4D@helsinki.fi> Message-ID: <67F1C839-ED32-47C1-BD1F-BBE06B389DD7@gmail.com> Dear colleagues, I believe there are textual issues with the Artha??stra and Mah?bh?rata which make the dating of those passages with references to c?na, c?nabh?mija, c?napa??a, etc rather difficult. Many Sanskrit astral texts contain k?rmavibh?ga type of descriptions, correlating directions with country names and thus give us some clues of the geographical knowledge of the authors. In early Indo-Greek works like Yavanaj?taka and V?ddhayavanaj?taka, there is no reference to c?na. In Var?hamihira's B?hatsa?hit? (6th century) we find c?na in the the long list of place names belonging to the direction NE: 14.29ab/ ai??ny?? merukana??ar?jyapa?up?lak?rak??m?r??/ 14.29cd/ abhis?radaradata?ga?akul?ta*sairindhra[K.sairindha]vanar???r??// 14.30ab/ brahmapurad?rva??maravanar?jyakir?tac?nakau?ind??/ 14.30cd/ *bhall?? pa?ola[K.bhall?palola]ja??sura*kuna?akhasa[K.kuna?hakha?a]gho?akucik?khy??// Elsewhere, c?na appeared 8 more times in the text for various types of predictions. So for Var?hamihira, the idea of c?na was quite certain. As for Dan's comment on the origin of China, or even c?na, I don't think it can be so easily answered. Qin? was indeed the first Chinese empire, but it was very short-lived and there is no source I am aware of that Chinese ever referred themselves as people from Qin; or conversely, I am not aware of the knowledge of the Qin Empire in non-Chinese sources. Chinese referring themselves as people from various dynasties did become common later on, and indeed in the Chinese Buddhist texts, the reference to the people of Qin?, that is referring to Later Qin (384 - 471 CE), is found frequently. But there are earlier sources which should be mentioned here. In Shijia fangzhi ????, a quote attributed Chengguanzi??? of Later Han, dated 205 CE, referred China as ??? - country of Zhendan (from C?nasth?na?). Later all, similar Chinese translations ?????????????? are found frequently in early Buddhist texts throughout first half of the first millennium. This seems to add a Central Asian factor to "c?na", since c?nasth?na is not attested in Sanskrit sources. It is possible that the Sanskrit "c?na" was adopted from this earlier "c?nasth?na" or similar variants used in Central Asia. "C?na" was translated into Chinese only later, appeared as ?? (zhina) in Narendraya?as' Chinese translation dated late sixth century CE, followed by the more common ?? (zhina). Best regards, Bill -- Bill M. Mak, PhD Associate Professor Institute for Research in Humanities, Kyoto University Yoshidahonmachi, Sakyo-ku, Kyoto, Japan 606-8501 ?606-8501 ?????????? ??????????? email: mak at zinbun.kyoto-u.ac.jp Tel:+81-75-753-6961 Fax:+81-75-753-6903 copies of my publications may be found at: http://www.billmak.com On 2016/03/11, at 16:20, Klaus Karttunen wrote: > Dear Collagues, > in Greek and Latin China was known as Serica, from the first century BCE on, but this signifies just the country of Seres or ?silk-producers?. In Ptolemy?s Geography Serica is northern China, while southern, reached from sea, is the country of Sinai. Cosmas Indicopleustes in the early 6th century had Tzinista for China, perhaps from early Arabic or Persian. > > Beside KA? and Mbh, C?na and Mah?c?na are met in late parts of the P?li Canon, references in Malalasekera (at home, I cannot check it now). > > Marco Polo did not introduce China, for him China was Cathay (a late name related to Russian Kitai). Portuguese China is first attested in 1516 and could be learnt in India or South-East Asia, althougn Persian ch?n? as medieval name of porcelain may have influenced. The s-form is curiously found in the name of orange in many European languages (e.g. German Apfelsine), ?the apple of China?. > > Just to show that the names of China have been discussed quite a long time, I add an early reference: > Klaproth, J. 1827. ?Sur les noms de la Chine?, JA 10, 53-61 (with notes by E. Jacquet, JA 2:10, 1832, 438-453 & 2:11, 1832, 188f. > Best, > Klaus > > Klaus Karttunen > South Asian and Indoeuropean Studies > Asian and African Studies, Department of World Cultures > PL 59 (Unioninkatu 38 B) > 00014 University of Helsinki, FINLAND > Tel +358-(0)2941 4482418 > Fax +358-(0)2941 22094 > Klaus.Karttunen at helsinki.fi > > > > > > >> On 11 Mar 2016, at 06:17, Dominik Wujastyk wrote: >> >> I'm an outsider in this discussion, so pardon any naive remarks. I was under the impression, though, from something I read somewhere (that statement wouldn't get past Wikipedia) that C?na in Tantrika texts, especially the Mah?c?n?c?ratantra, referred to what we today call the Assam-Burma region. Meghalaya, Manipur, Nagaland, Tripura, Northern Burma that sort of area. >> >> Best, >> Dominik >> >> -- >> Professor Dominik Wujastyk* >> Singhmar Chair in Classical Indian Society and Polity >> Department of History and Classics >> University of Alberta, Canada >> >> _______________________________________________ >> INDOLOGY mailing list >> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info >> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) >> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ondracka at ff.cuni.cz Fri Mar 11 16:04:20 2016 From: ondracka at ff.cuni.cz (Lubomir Ondracka) Date: Fri, 11 Mar 16 17:04:20 +0100 Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_[INDOLOGY]_Origin_of_Mah=C4=81c=C4=ABna?= In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20160311170420.41b1e9078ec455cdd2618b18@ff.cuni.cz> Thanks for clarification. You are right, the identification of Sin (Sinim) is clearly inconclusive and one should not exclude that it could mean China since rather early times. Some (and of course outdated) references are in Brown-Driver-Briggs sub Sinim: http://biblehub.com/hebrew/5515.htm For our Indological context, one reference is interesting: T. de Lacouperie "who thinks of ?ina, at foot of Hindu Kush, but unlikely". Klein's Etymological Dictionary (????, p. 444) says: "China (a hapax legomenon in the Bible occurring Is 49:12... The Sinim are identified by many scholars with the Chinese, cp. Ptolemaic Gk. sinai (= the Chinese)." It would be important to know since when this identification with Chine/Chinese is indisputably attested in Hebrew, Arabic and Persian sources. Best, LO On Thu, 10 Mar 2016 20:58:49 -0500 "Dan Lusthaus" wrote: > There has been some controversy as to whether the biblical Sin is China or > somewhere else (speculations abound, from Ethiopia, to a city in Egypt, to > Phoenicia, to its cognate Sinai, to areas hidden away in corners of > Mesopotamia, and so on). The strongest argument against Sin (or "the people > of Sinim" -- Sinim is the plural of Sin) referring to China is that it > appears in the book of Isaiah, the initial portions of which were believed > to have been written in the 8th c BCE or so, and the reference to Sinim > occurs in the section scholars call Deutero-Isaiah, believed to come from > the 6th c BCE or so. at which times the existence of a kingdom of Qin is > dubious, and the various Chinese kingdoms were still centuries away from > being unified under a Qin ruler. Isaiah, however, has been subject to many > interpolations and the hands of organized, systematic revisionists, so the > date of individual passages can vary even in the same section. The > indication from Isaiah (49:12) is that it is someplace remote that is > neither north nor west. That leaves south and east. Welcome to open season > on speculation. That the idea of a remote people at the ends of the earth > would be to the East rather than the south, for which we have little > Biblical evidence of awareness of "remote" cultures -- Egypt and Phoenicia, > for instance, were part of normal travel routes and considered rather > proximate -- seems a reasonable assumption. > > Similar controversies attempted to dismiss references to India and Solomon's > trade with India, but more recent discoveries have added legitimacy to the > biblical references (the materials said to be imported were indeed coming > from India at that time, etc.). So the reference to China in the Bible may > not "highly improbable," if not fully proven. The efforts to identify > alternate locations, in fact, are the "highly improbable" speculations, > driven by an impulse to pose alternatives rather than meaningful evidence. > > While in recent years the biblical references to India are coming to be > accepted and the skepticism has faded, the question of the reference to Sin > has not undergone serious recent evaluations. Since Arabic and Persian and > Syriac all use something similar to Chin / Sin / Tsin for China, and did so > from early on, it is unreasonable to assert that Hebrew alone, of the > regional languages, lacked that information, as much as some scholars have > strained to insist on that conclusion. That it is a modern addition to > Hebrew is "highly improbable." > > Dan Lusthaus. > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Lubomir Ondracka" > > > It seems highly improbable that the Hebrew Sin (????) used in Tanach could > > be connected to China: > > http://biblehub.com/hebrew/5512.htm > > > > And this meaning is not attested even in Talmud and Midrashic literature > > (see Jastrow for ?????, p. 982). It would be interesting to know since > > when does Sin in Hebrew mean China. It could be rather modern usage, I > > don't know. > > > > LO > > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) From kauzeya at gmail.com Fri Mar 11 16:48:35 2016 From: kauzeya at gmail.com (Jonathan Silk) Date: Fri, 11 Mar 16 17:48:35 +0100 Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_[INDOLOGY]_Origin_of_Mah=C4=81c=C4=ABna?= In-Reply-To: <67F1C839-ED32-47C1-BD1F-BBE06B389DD7@gmail.com> Message-ID: To Bill's point about Qin: I am not sure about the _geographical_ self-reference, but we do find -- and I confess I do not know how early or late this is found, but it's there -- not so rarely the expression ??, which is used to gloss a foreign word, and which we would translate loosely as something like "In Chinese....". best, jonathan PS: I found the point about what is in Dutch sinaasappel wonderful! (The 17th c. form seems more Germanic: appelsien. For more fun facts: http://www.etymologiebank.nl/trefwoord/appelsien) On Fri, Mar 11, 2016 at 5:01 PM, Bill Mak wrote: > Dear colleagues, > > I believe there are textual issues with the Artha??stra and Mah?bh?rata > which make the dating of those passages with references to c?na, > c?nabh?mija, c?napa??a, etc rather difficult. Many Sanskrit astral texts > contain k?rmavibh?ga type of descriptions, correlating directions with > country names and thus give us some clues of the geographical knowledge of > the authors. In early Indo-Greek works like Yavanaj?taka and > V?ddhayavanaj?taka, there is no reference to c?na. In Var?hamihira's > B?hatsa?hit? (6th century) we find c?na in the the long list of place names > belonging to the direction NE: > 14.29ab/ ai??ny?? merukana??ar?jyapa?up?lak?rak??m?r??/ > 14.29cd/ abhis?radaradata?ga?akul?ta*sairindhra[K.sairindha]vanar???r??// > 14.30ab/ brahmapurad?rva??maravanar?jyakir?tac?nakau?ind??/ > 14.30cd/ *bhall?? > pa?ola[K.bhall?palola]ja??sura*kuna?akhasa[K.kuna?hakha?a]gho?akucik?khy??// > > Elsewhere, c?na appeared 8 more times in the text for various types of > predictions. So for Var?hamihira, the idea of c?na was quite certain. > > As for Dan's comment on the origin of China, or even c?na, I don't think > it can be so easily answered. Qin? was indeed the first Chinese empire, but > it was very short-lived and there is no source I am aware of that Chinese > ever referred themselves as people from Qin; or conversely, I am not aware > of the knowledge of the Qin Empire in non-Chinese sources. Chinese > referring themselves as people from various dynasties did become common > later on, and indeed in the Chinese Buddhist texts, the reference to the > people of Qin?, that is referring to Later Qin (384 - 471 CE), is found > frequently. > > But there are earlier sources which should be mentioned here. In Shijia > fangzhi ????, a quote attributed Chengguanzi??? of Later Han, dated 205 > CE, referred China as ??? - country of Zhendan (from C?nasth?na?). Later > all, similar Chinese translations ?????????????? are found frequently in > early Buddhist texts throughout first half of the first millennium. This > seems to add a Central Asian factor to "c?na", since c?nasth?na is not > attested in Sanskrit sources. It is possible that the Sanskrit "c?na" was > adopted from this earlier "c?nasth?na" or similar variants used in Central > Asia. "C?na" was translated into Chinese only later, appeared as ?? > (zhina) in Narendraya?as' Chinese translation dated late sixth century > CE, followed by the more common ?? (zhina). > > Best regards, > Bill > > > -- > Bill M. Mak, PhD > Associate Professor > > Institute for Research in Humanities, Kyoto University > Yoshidahonmachi, Sakyo-ku, Kyoto, Japan 606-8501 > ?606-8501 ?????????? > ??????????? > > email: mak at zinbun.kyoto-u.ac.jp > Tel:+81-75-753-6961 > Fax:+81-75-753-6903 > > copies of my publications may be found at: > http://www.billmak.com > > On 2016/03/11, at 16:20, Klaus Karttunen wrote: > > Dear Collagues, > in Greek and Latin China was known as Serica, from the first century BCE > on, but this signifies just the country of Seres or ?silk-producers?. In > Ptolemy?s Geography Serica is northern China, while southern, reached from > sea, is the country of Sinai. Cosmas Indicopleustes in the early 6th > century had Tzinista for China, perhaps from early Arabic or Persian. > > Beside KA? and Mbh, C?na and Mah?c?na are met in late parts of the P?li > Canon, references in Malalasekera (at home, I cannot check it now). > > Marco Polo did not introduce China, for him China was Cathay (a late name > related to Russian Kitai). Portuguese China is first attested in 1516 and > could be learnt in India or South-East Asia, althougn Persian ch?n? as > medieval name of porcelain may have influenced. The s-form is curiously > found in the name of orange in many European languages (e.g. German > Apfelsine), ?the apple of China?. > > Just to show that the names of China have been discussed quite a long > time, I add an early reference: > Klaproth, J. 1827. ?Sur les noms de la Chine?, *JA* 10, 53-61 (with notes > by E. Jacquet, *JA* 2:10, 1832, 438-453 & 2:11, 1832, 188f. > > Best, > Klaus > > Klaus Karttunen > South Asian and Indoeuropean Studies > Asian and African Studies, Department of World Cultures > PL 59 (Unioninkatu 38 B) > 00014 University of Helsinki, FINLAND > Tel +358-(0)2941 4482418 > Fax +358-(0)2941 22094 > Klaus.Karttunen at helsinki.fi > > > > > > > On 11 Mar 2016, at 06:17, Dominik Wujastyk wrote: > > I'm an outsider in this discussion, so pardon any naive remarks. I was > under the impression, though, from something I read somewhere (that > statement wouldn't get past Wikipedia) that C?na in Tantrika texts, > especially the *Mah?c?n?c?ratantra*, referred to what we today call the > Assam-Burma region. Meghalaya, Manipur, Nagaland, Tripura, Northern Burma > that sort of area. > > Best, > Dominik > > -- > Professor Dominik Wujastyk* > Singhmar Chair in Classical Indian Society and Polity > Department of History and Classics > > University of Alberta, Canada > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing > committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or > unsubscribe) > > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing > committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or > unsubscribe) > > > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing > committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or > unsubscribe) > -- J. Silk Leiden University Leiden University Institute for Area Studies, LIAS Matthias de Vrieshof 3, Room 0.05b 2311 BZ Leiden The Netherlands copies of my publications may be found at http://www.buddhismandsocialjustice.com/silk_publications.html -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bill.m.mak at gmail.com Fri Mar 11 17:34:01 2016 From: bill.m.mak at gmail.com (Bill Mak) Date: Sat, 12 Mar 16 00:34:01 +0700 Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_[INDOLOGY]_Origin_of_Mah=C4=81c=C4=ABna?= In-Reply-To: Message-ID: More on Qin. Indeed ?? in all the contexts I know of would refer to ?? Later Qin (384 - 471 CE) and not ? Qin (221 - 207 BC). After all, there is no attestation of the usage of ?? before Later Qin. Another argument against Qin as the source of c?na or any other similar derivations is that the character ? was a voiced sibilant which lost its voicing quite late (Old Chinese: ?in/zin, Middle Chinese: ?jin/zjin). Reconstructions vary among linguists but they all agree on the voicing. The Chinese linguist Zheng-Zhang Shangfang proposed therefore ? Jin (O.C. cinh, M.C. cji?n) as a better candidate. He further pointed out that China was referred to as "sinstan" in Syriac in the famous Nestorian Stele. Just like Greek, there is no unvoiced affricate in Syriac and c became s. Zheng-Zhang's analysis seems attractive to me because this Syriac "sinstan" connects to the very old ????? I referred to earlier (M.C.: cintan). An excerpt of his paper in Chinese: http://tieba.baidu.com/p/1016958739 Regards, Bill On 2016/03/11, at 23:48, Jonathan Silk wrote: > To Bill's point about Qin: I am not sure about the _geographical_ self-reference, but we do find -- and I confess I do not know how early or late this is found, but it's there -- not so rarely the expression ??, which is used to gloss a foreign word, and which we would translate loosely as something like "In Chinese....". > best, jonathan > > PS: I found the point about what is in Dutch sinaasappel wonderful! (The 17th c. form seems more Germanic: appelsien. For more fun facts: http://www.etymologiebank.nl/trefwoord/appelsien) > > On Fri, Mar 11, 2016 at 5:01 PM, Bill Mak wrote: > Dear colleagues, > > I believe there are textual issues with the Artha??stra and Mah?bh?rata which make the dating of those passages with references to c?na, c?nabh?mija, c?napa??a, etc rather difficult. Many Sanskrit astral texts contain k?rmavibh?ga type of descriptions, correlating directions with country names and thus give us some clues of the geographical knowledge of the authors. In early Indo-Greek works like Yavanaj?taka and V?ddhayavanaj?taka, there is no reference to c?na. In Var?hamihira's B?hatsa?hit? (6th century) we find c?na in the the long list of place names belonging to the direction NE: > 14.29ab/ ai??ny?? merukana??ar?jyapa?up?lak?rak??m?r??/ > 14.29cd/ abhis?radaradata?ga?akul?ta*sairindhra[K.sairindha]vanar???r??// > 14.30ab/ brahmapurad?rva??maravanar?jyakir?tac?nakau?ind??/ > 14.30cd/ *bhall?? pa?ola[K.bhall?palola]ja??sura*kuna?akhasa[K.kuna?hakha?a]gho?akucik?khy??// > > Elsewhere, c?na appeared 8 more times in the text for various types of predictions. So for Var?hamihira, the idea of c?na was quite certain. > > As for Dan's comment on the origin of China, or even c?na, I don't think it can be so easily answered. Qin? was indeed the first Chinese empire, but it was very short-lived and there is no source I am aware of that Chinese ever referred themselves as people from Qin; or conversely, I am not aware of the knowledge of the Qin Empire in non-Chinese sources. Chinese referring themselves as people from various dynasties did become common later on, and indeed in the Chinese Buddhist texts, the reference to the people of Qin?, that is referring to Later Qin (384 - 471 CE), is found frequently. > > But there are earlier sources which should be mentioned here. In Shijia fangzhi ????, a quote attributed Chengguanzi??? of Later Han, dated 205 CE, referred China as ??? - country of Zhendan (from C?nasth?na?). Later all, similar Chinese translations ?????????????? are found frequently in early Buddhist texts throughout first half of the first millennium. This seems to add a Central Asian factor to "c?na", since c?nasth?na is not attested in Sanskrit sources. It is possible that the Sanskrit "c?na" was adopted from this earlier "c?nasth?na" or similar variants used in Central Asia. "C?na" was translated into Chinese only later, appeared as ?? (zhina) in Narendraya?as' Chinese translation dated late sixth century CE, followed by the more common ?? (zhina). > > Best regards, > Bill > > > -- > Bill M. Mak, PhD > Associate Professor > > Institute for Research in Humanities, Kyoto University > Yoshidahonmachi, Sakyo-ku, Kyoto, Japan 606-8501 > ?606-8501 ?????????? > ??????????? > > email: mak at zinbun.kyoto-u.ac.jp > Tel:+81-75-753-6961 > Fax:+81-75-753-6903 > > copies of my publications may be found at: > http://www.billmak.com > > On 2016/03/11, at 16:20, Klaus Karttunen wrote: > >> Dear Collagues, >> in Greek and Latin China was known as Serica, from the first century BCE on, but this signifies just the country of Seres or ?silk-producers?. In Ptolemy?s Geography Serica is northern China, while southern, reached from sea, is the country of Sinai. Cosmas Indicopleustes in the early 6th century had Tzinista for China, perhaps from early Arabic or Persian. >> >> Beside KA? and Mbh, C?na and Mah?c?na are met in late parts of the P?li Canon, references in Malalasekera (at home, I cannot check it now). >> >> Marco Polo did not introduce China, for him China was Cathay (a late name related to Russian Kitai). Portuguese China is first attested in 1516 and could be learnt in India or South-East Asia, althougn Persian ch?n? as medieval name of porcelain may have influenced. The s-form is curiously found in the name of orange in many European languages (e.g. German Apfelsine), ?the apple of China?. >> >> Just to show that the names of China have been discussed quite a long time, I add an early reference: >> Klaproth, J. 1827. ?Sur les noms de la Chine?, JA 10, 53-61 (with notes by E. Jacquet, JA 2:10, 1832, 438-453 & 2:11, 1832, 188f. >> >> Best, >> Klaus >> >> Klaus Karttunen >> South Asian and Indoeuropean Studies >> Asian and African Studies, Department of World Cultures >> PL 59 (Unioninkatu 38 B) >> 00014 University of Helsinki, FINLAND >> Tel +358-(0)2941 4482418 >> Fax +358-(0)2941 22094 >> Klaus.Karttunen at helsinki.fi >> >> >> >> >> >> >>> On 11 Mar 2016, at 06:17, Dominik Wujastyk wrote: >>> >>> I'm an outsider in this discussion, so pardon any naive remarks. I was under the impression, though, from something I read somewhere (that statement wouldn't get past Wikipedia) that C?na in Tantrika texts, especially the Mah?c?n?c?ratantra, referred to what we today call the Assam-Burma region. Meghalaya, Manipur, Nagaland, Tripura, Northern Burma that sort of area. >>> >>> Best, >>> Dominik >>> >>> -- >>> Professor Dominik Wujastyk* >>> Singhmar Chair in Classical Indian Society and Polity >>> Department of History and Classics >>> University of Alberta, Canada >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> INDOLOGY mailing list >>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info >>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) >>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) >> >> _______________________________________________ >> INDOLOGY mailing list >> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info >> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) >> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) > > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) > > > > -- > J. Silk > Leiden University > Leiden University Institute for Area Studies, LIAS > Matthias de Vrieshof 3, Room 0.05b > 2311 BZ Leiden > The Netherlands > > copies of my publications may be found at > http://www.buddhismandsocialjustice.com/silk_publications.html -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From loriliai.biernacki at colorado.edu Sat Mar 12 01:37:48 2016 From: loriliai.biernacki at colorado.edu (Loriliai Biernacki) Date: Sat, 12 Mar 16 01:37:48 +0000 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Origin of Mah?c?na In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Maybe yes, my own sense is that in this context C?na points less to a known region and more simply functions as a place-holder for the category of the foreign; in part I think this because the practices in the C?n?c?ratantra, which are primarily sexual in nature, appear to be rooted in practices popular in Bengal and Western Assam, unlike the practices associated with Eastern Assam, Sadiya for instance, and Burma, known for human sacrifice. Of course this doesn't discount your point that C?na might have simply referred to a vague geographic region that these writers supposed to be located where contemporary Burma, Nagaland etc are. I suspect that the Bengali and Western Assamese writers use the term because it already signified a functional geographic "other", in this case somewhat denigrated, (maybe similar to the medieval and early modern European uses of the "orient"?), and maybe also not so different from one of V.V. Dvivedi's 20th century introductions where he compares the c?n?c?ra practice to Muslim practices. All best, Loriliai From: INDOLOGY > on behalf of Dominik Wujastyk > Date: Thursday, March 10, 2016 at 9:17 PM To: Indology > Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] Origin of Mah?c?na I'm an outsider in this discussion, so pardon any naive remarks. I was under the impression, though, from something I read somewhere (that statement wouldn't get past Wikipedia) that C?na in Tantrika texts, especially the Mah?c?n?c?ratantra, referred to what we today call the Assam-Burma region. Meghalaya, Manipur, Nagaland, Tripura, Northern Burma that sort of area. Best, Dominik -- Professor Dominik Wujastyk* Singhmar Chair in Classical Indian Society and Polity Department of History and Classics University of Alberta, Canada -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From loriliai.biernacki at colorado.edu Sat Mar 12 01:41:19 2016 From: loriliai.biernacki at colorado.edu (Loriliai Biernacki) Date: Sat, 12 Mar 16 01:41:19 +0000 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Origin of Mah?c?na In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I located the Dvivedi quote, in case anyone is interested: --?ityatra var?itau c?nasn?nanamask?rau isl?madharm?nuy?yin?? vaju-namaj-karma?? anuharata??- this comes from the intro to the ?aktisa?gama Tantra, vol.4, p.42. Maybe yes, my own sense is that in this context C?na points less to a known region and more simply functions as a place-holder for the category of the foreign; in part I think this because the practices in the C?n?c?ratantra, which are primarily sexual in nature, appear to be rooted in practices popular in Bengal and Western Assam, unlike the practices associated with Eastern Assam, Sadiya for instance, and Burma, known for human sacrifice. Of course this doesn?t discount your point that C?na might have simply referred to a vague geographic region that these writers supposed to be located where contemporary Burma, Nagaland etc are. I suspect that the Bengali and Western Assamese writers use the term because it already signified a functional geographic ?other?, in this case somewhat denigrated, (maybe similar to the medieval and early modern European uses of the ?orient??), and maybe also not so different from one of V.V. Dvivedi?s 20th century introductions where he compares the c?n?c?ra practice to Muslim practices. All best, Loriliai From: INDOLOGY > on behalf of Dominik Wujastyk > Date: Thursday, March 10, 2016 at 9:17 PM To: Indology > Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] Origin of Mah?c?na I'm an outsider in this discussion, so pardon any naive remarks. I was under the impression, though, from something I read somewhere (that statement wouldn't get past Wikipedia) that C?na in Tantrika texts, especially the Mah?c?n?c?ratantra, referred to what we today call the Assam-Burma region. Meghalaya, Manipur, Nagaland, Tripura, Northern Burma that sort of area. Best, Dominik -- Professor Dominik Wujastyk* Singhmar Chair in Classical Indian Society and Polity Department of History and Classics University of Alberta, Canada -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From gthomgt at gmail.com Sat Mar 12 23:29:14 2016 From: gthomgt at gmail.com (George Thompson) Date: Sat, 12 Mar 16 18:29:14 -0500 Subject: [INDOLOGY] A font for accented Vedic Message-ID: Dear List, . For the time being, I am obliged to use a computer that does not have a font for accented Vedic text in transliteration. Can someone send me such a font so that I can submit a paper before an upcoming deadline? I would be very, very grateful. With thanks in advance, George Thompson -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From LubinT at wlu.edu Sat Mar 12 23:38:22 2016 From: LubinT at wlu.edu (Lubin, Tim) Date: Sat, 12 Mar 16 23:38:22 +0000 Subject: [INDOLOGY] A font for accented Vedic In-Reply-To: Message-ID: George, Andrew Glass?s Gandhari Unicode includes the Vedic accented transliteration characters ? I have used these for years: http://andrewglass.org/fonts.php If you use a Mac, you can also find a link to my customized keylayout file, and a keyboard map here (it includes characters for Tamil and Old Javanese as well): https://www.academia.edu/9605724/LubinEasyUnicode_keymap Best, Tim Timothy Lubin Professor of Religion and Adjunct Professor of Law Washington and Lee University Lexington, Virginia 24450 http://home.wlu.edu/~lubint http://wlu.academia.edu/TimothyLubin ? From: INDOLOGY > on behalf of George Thompson > Date: Saturday, March 12, 2016 at 6:29 PM To: "indology at list.indology.info" > Subject: [INDOLOGY] A font for accented Vedic Dear List, . For the time being, I am obliged to use a computer that does not have a font for accented Vedic text in transliteration. Can someone send me such a font so that I can submit a paper before an upcoming deadline? I would be very, very grateful. With thanks in advance, George Thompson -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From gthomgt at gmail.com Sun Mar 13 00:27:59 2016 From: gthomgt at gmail.com (George Thompson) Date: Sat, 12 Mar 16 19:27:59 -0500 Subject: [INDOLOGY] A font for accented Vedic In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Dear Tim, Thank you very much for your quick response. George On Sat, Mar 12, 2016 at 6:38 PM, Lubin, Tim wrote: > George, > > Andrew Glass?s Gandhari Unicode includes the Vedic accented > transliteration characters ? I have used these for years: > http://andrewglass.org/fonts.php > > If you use a Mac, you can also find a link to my customized keylayout > file, and a keyboard map here (it includes characters for Tamil and Old > Javanese as well): > https://www.academia.edu/9605724/LubinEasyUnicode_keymap > > Best, > > Tim > > Timothy Lubin > Professor of Religion and Adjunct Professor of Law > Washington and Lee University > Lexington, Virginia 24450 > > http://home.wlu.edu/~lubint > http://wlu.academia.edu/TimothyLubin > > ? > > From: INDOLOGY on behalf of George > Thompson > Date: Saturday, March 12, 2016 at 6:29 PM > To: "indology at list.indology.info" > Subject: [INDOLOGY] A font for accented Vedic > > Dear List, > . > For the time being, I am obliged to use a computer that does not have a > font for accented Vedic text in transliteration. Can someone send me such > a font so that I can submit a paper before an upcoming deadline? I would > be very, very grateful. > > With thanks in advance, > > George Thompson > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mmdesh at umich.edu Sun Mar 13 00:38:55 2016 From: mmdesh at umich.edu (Madhav Deshpande) Date: Sat, 12 Mar 16 19:38:55 -0500 Subject: [INDOLOGY] A font for accented Vedic In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hello Tim, How do I download your keylayout file? Madhav On Sat, Mar 12, 2016 at 6:38 PM, Lubin, Tim wrote: > George, > > Andrew Glass?s Gandhari Unicode includes the Vedic accented > transliteration characters ? I have used these for years: > http://andrewglass.org/fonts.php > > If you use a Mac, you can also find a link to my customized keylayout > file, and a keyboard map here (it includes characters for Tamil and Old > Javanese as well): > https://www.academia.edu/9605724/LubinEasyUnicode_keymap > > Best, > > Tim > > Timothy Lubin > Professor of Religion and Adjunct Professor of Law > Washington and Lee University > Lexington, Virginia 24450 > > http://home.wlu.edu/~lubint > http://wlu.academia.edu/TimothyLubin > > ? > > From: INDOLOGY on behalf of George > Thompson > Date: Saturday, March 12, 2016 at 6:29 PM > To: "indology at list.indology.info" > Subject: [INDOLOGY] A font for accented Vedic > > Dear List, > . > For the time being, I am obliged to use a computer that does not have a > font for accented Vedic text in transliteration. Can someone send me such > a font so that I can submit a paper before an upcoming deadline? I would > be very, very grateful. > > With thanks in advance, > > George Thompson > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing > committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or > unsubscribe) > -- Madhav M. Deshpande Professor of Sanskrit and Linguistics Department of Asian Languages and Cultures 202 South Thayer Street, Suite 6111 The University of Michigan Ann Arbor, MI 48104-1608, USA -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From LubinT at wlu.edu Sun Mar 13 01:11:40 2016 From: LubinT at wlu.edu (Lubin, Tim) Date: Sun, 13 Mar 16 01:11:40 +0000 Subject: [INDOLOGY] A font for accented Vedic In-Reply-To: Message-ID: One the page https://www.academia.edu/9605724/LubinEasyUnicode_keymap under the title, next to my name, under the word FILES, there are some little arrowheads ? hover over those, or click on them, and you will see two files: the PDF of the map (which shows on the page anyway) and the keylayout file. If you choose that file, it ought to download automatically or at least prompt you to do so. Tim From: Madhav Deshpande > Date: Saturday, March 12, 2016 at 7:38 PM To: "Lubin, Tim" > Cc: George Thompson >, "indology at list.indology.info" > Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] A font for accented Vedic Hello Tim, How do I download your keylayout file? Madhav On Sat, Mar 12, 2016 at 6:38 PM, Lubin, Tim > wrote: George, Andrew Glass?s Gandhari Unicode includes the Vedic accented transliteration characters ? I have used these for years: http://andrewglass.org/fonts.php If you use a Mac, you can also find a link to my customized keylayout file, and a keyboard map here (it includes characters for Tamil and Old Javanese as well): https://www.academia.edu/9605724/LubinEasyUnicode_keymap Best, Tim Timothy Lubin Professor of Religion and Adjunct Professor of Law Washington and Lee University Lexington, Virginia 24450 http://home.wlu.edu/~lubint http://wlu.academia.edu/TimothyLubin ? From: INDOLOGY > on behalf of George Thompson > Date: Saturday, March 12, 2016 at 6:29 PM To: "indology at list.indology.info" > Subject: [INDOLOGY] A font for accented Vedic Dear List, . For the time being, I am obliged to use a computer that does not have a font for accented Vedic text in transliteration. Can someone send me such a font so that I can submit a paper before an upcoming deadline? I would be very, very grateful. With thanks in advance, George Thompson _______________________________________________ INDOLOGY mailing list INDOLOGY at list.indology.info indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) -- Madhav M. Deshpande Professor of Sanskrit and Linguistics Department of Asian Languages and Cultures 202 South Thayer Street, Suite 6111 The University of Michigan Ann Arbor, MI 48104-1608, USA -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From andreaacri at mac.com Sun Mar 13 13:16:15 2016 From: andreaacri at mac.com (Andrea Acri) Date: Sun, 13 Mar 16 18:46:15 +0530 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Origin of Mah?c?na In-Reply-To: Message-ID: The issue as to what were the geographical entities denoted by the terms c?na and mah?c?na (at different times, mainly in Buddhist Tantric texts) has generated quite a lot of discussion; however, I was not aware of an Eastern Indian/Burmese identification. Here suffice it to say that Mah?c?na appears to refer to China proper in the A??asah?srika-Praj??p?ramit? Nepalese manuscript of AD 1015, since it locates Ma?jugho?a there (mah?c?ne ma?jugho?e, which refers to Ma?ju?r? at Mt Wutai).? According to Geoff Wade, Zina was the term used by the inhabitants of Yelang (a polity in the western Guizhou region) to refer to themselves, and is possibly the source of Sanskrit c?na (see ?The Polity of Yelang and the origin of the name ??China???, Sino Platonic Papers 188, May 2009, available online). Best Andrea On 12 March 2016 at 7:13:10 am, Loriliai Biernacki (loriliai.biernacki at colorado.edu) wrote: I located the Dvivedi quote, in case anyone is interested:?--?ityatra?var?itau?c?nasn?nanamask?rau isl?madharm?nuy?yin???vaju-namaj-karma?? anuharata??- this comes from the intro to the ?aktisa?gama Tantra, vol.4, p.42. Maybe yes, my own sense is that in this context C?na points less to a known region and more simply functions as a place-holder for the category of the foreign; in part I think this because the practices in the C?n?c?ratantra, which are primarily sexual in nature, appear to be rooted in practices popular in Bengal and Western Assam, unlike the practices associated with Eastern Assam, Sadiya for instance, and Burma, known for human sacrifice. Of course this doesn?t discount your point that C?na might have simply referred to a vague geographic region that these writers supposed to be located where contemporary Burma, Nagaland etc are. I suspect that the Bengali and Western Assamese writers use the term because it already signified a functional geographic ?other?, in this case somewhat denigrated, (maybe similar to the medieval and early modern European uses of the ?orient??), and maybe also not so different from one of V.V. Dvivedi?s 20th century introductions where he compares the c?n?c?ra practice to Muslim practices. All best, Loriliai From: INDOLOGY on behalf of Dominik Wujastyk Date: Thursday, March 10, 2016 at 9:17 PM To: Indology Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] Origin of Mah?c?na I'm an outsider in this discussion, so pardon any naive remarks.? I was under the impression, though, from something I read somewhere (that statement wouldn't get past Wikipedia) that C?na in Tantrika texts, especially the Mah?c?n?c?ratantra, referred to what we today call the Assam-Burma region.? Meghalaya, Manipur, Nagaland, Tripura, Northern Burma that sort of area. Best, Dominik -- Professor Dominik Wujastyk* Singhmar Chair in Classical Indian Society and Polity Department of History and Classics University of Alberta, Canada _______________________________________________ INDOLOGY mailing list INDOLOGY at list.indology.info indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From drdhaval2785 at gmail.com Sun Mar 13 17:14:36 2016 From: drdhaval2785 at gmail.com (dhaval patel) Date: Sun, 13 Mar 16 22:44:36 +0530 Subject: [INDOLOGY] A tool to fiddle with Ashtadhyayi Message-ID: == Sorry for cross posting == Respected scholars, We have been working with Sanskrit verb form derivation computationally. As a by-product of that work, we have developed a tool by which a student can visualize what effect would occur if a particular sUtra didn't exist in Panini's grammar. We think it would be of interest to some of you. Web page - http://www.sanskritworld.in/sanskrittool/SanskritVerb/tiGanta.html Example: [image: Inline image 1] Execution of code would go on as if sUtra number 8.3.15 (????????????????????) didn't exist in Paninian grammar and give the forms without this rule. This way we would be able to visualize the effect of absence of rule 8.3.15 on Paninian grammar. In the present case, it would be as follows [image: Inline image 2] N.B. - 1. You can silent multiple sUtras by passing a comma separated value e.g. 8.3.15,1.3.9 2. In future, we plan to generalize the tool so that the computer would list the rules barred by absence of a given rule and rules which apply additionally in absence of a given rule. Project code - https://github.com/drdhaval2785/sanskritverb Best wishes, -- Dr. Dhaval Patel, I.A.S Collector and District Magistrate, Anand www.sanskritworld.in -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From glhart at berkeley.edu Sun Mar 13 17:35:05 2016 From: glhart at berkeley.edu (George Hart) Date: Sun, 13 Mar 16 10:35:05 -0700 Subject: [INDOLOGY] A font for accented Vedic In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <625A8667-9B49-4C4D-A0DE-41E258AED350@berkeley.edu> If anyone is interested, here is a dropbox link to my Mac keyboard layout for Indic signs in roman unicode. It uses forward-slash (/) as a dead key. Two presses of / gives /. It?s pretty transparent and quite easy to use. /a -> ?, /A -> ?, /s -> ?, /r -> ?, /h -> ?, etc. Less obvious are /z -> ?, /w -> ?. For Tamil, /k -> ?, /y -> ?. It?s easy to figure this out ? it works for caps also, though there are no Vedic accents. It enables extremely fast typing, no use of option or other awkward keys. I?ve been using it for many years (also in its previous incarnation with the TimesIndian font, which goes back to the ?80?s). Only downside ? it?s impossible to install in iOS, unfortunately, though Muthu Nedumaran once sent me an app that works in iOS (it never made it to the app store and doesn't work anymore). Anyone who wants to use Tamil, Devanagari, Telugu etc. script on iOS should check out his Indic Notes, which allows one to type Roman for the various writing systems (????????? = kuTumqbamq ? unfortunately this is somewhat different than the Mac Devanagari QWERTY, which is ku(option)tumfamf, but it?s more usable, I think). George https://www.dropbox.com/s/7d7th7m9d9l2i36/NewIndianRomanUnicode.keylayout?dl=0 > On Mar 12, 2016, at 4:38 PM, Madhav Deshpande wrote: > > Hello Tim, > > How do I download your keylayout file? > > Madhav > > On Sat, Mar 12, 2016 at 6:38 PM, Lubin, Tim > wrote: > George, > > Andrew Glass?s Gandhari Unicode includes the Vedic accented transliteration characters ? I have used these for years: > http://andrewglass.org/fonts.php > > If you use a Mac, you can also find a link to my customized keylayout file, and a keyboard map here (it includes characters for Tamil and Old Javanese as well): > https://www.academia.edu/9605724/LubinEasyUnicode_keymap > > Best, > > Tim > > Timothy Lubin > Professor of Religion and Adjunct Professor of Law > Washington and Lee University > Lexington, Virginia 24450 > > http://home.wlu.edu/~lubint > http://wlu.academia.edu/TimothyLubin > > ? > > From: INDOLOGY > on behalf of George Thompson > > Date: Saturday, March 12, 2016 at 6:29 PM > To: "indology at list.indology.info " > > Subject: [INDOLOGY] A font for accented Vedic > > Dear List, > . > For the time being, I am obliged to use a computer that does not have a font for accented Vedic text in transliteration. Can someone send me such a font so that I can submit a paper before an upcoming deadline? I would be very, very grateful. > > With thanks in advance, > > George Thompson > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) > > > > -- > Madhav M. Deshpande > Professor of Sanskrit and Linguistics > Department of Asian Languages and Cultures > 202 South Thayer Street, Suite 6111 > The University of Michigan > Ann Arbor, MI 48104-1608, USA > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From hspier.muktabodha at gmail.com Sun Mar 13 17:48:02 2016 From: hspier.muktabodha at gmail.com (Harry Spier) Date: Sun, 13 Mar 16 13:48:02 -0400 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Taittiriya Aranyaka with Bhaskara Misra's commentary Message-ID: I have been unable to get a pdf ot vol. 3 of the Taittiriya Aranyaka with Bhaskara Misra's commentary by Sastri and Rangacarya. Does anyone know if there have been any other editions of the Taittiriya Aranyaka with Bhaskararamisra's commentary published? I thought I had seen somewhere on-line (where I can't remember) that an edition had been published by Ananda Ashram edited by Abhyankara with an introduction by VV Dvivedi but when I did a search of the KVK on-line collection of library catalogues all I could come up with was the entry for Abhyankara's edition with Sayana's commentary also published by Ananda Ashram. Thanks, Harry Spier -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jpo at austin.utexas.edu Sun Mar 13 18:49:39 2016 From: jpo at austin.utexas.edu (Olivelle, J P) Date: Sun, 13 Mar 16 18:49:39 +0000 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Pune Dictionary Message-ID: I wonder whether any of you have noted the changes made to the latest volume of the Pune Sanskrit Dictionary. The 9th volume was published 2011. When we should have expected Vol. 10, we now have the 2012 publication of Vol. 28!! It is both shorter and narrower than the previous ones. I assume that Vol. 28 is arrived at by renaming each fascicule contained in the previous volumes as a separate volume. For those trying to cite the work, however, this will cause problems. Patrick From jwn3y at cms.mail.virginia.edu Sun Mar 13 19:55:22 2016 From: jwn3y at cms.mail.virginia.edu (John Nemec) Date: Sun, 13 Mar 16 15:55:22 -0400 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Richard Salomon's "Notes on the Translations of KalhaNa's RAjataraGgiNI" In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Dear Indology Listmembers, I thank Richard Mahoney, David Buchta, and Rich Salomon himself for helping me to secure a copy of this article. Sincerely, John On Mon, 07 Mar 2016 06:55:00 -0500 "John Nemec" wrote: >Dear Indology Listmembers, > >I have been looking in the usual places for access to a .pdf copy of the following article and would greatly appreciate it if any of you could offer one: > >Richard Salomon, "Notes on the Translations of KalhaNa?s RAjataraGgiNI (I?IV). _Berliner Indologische Studien_ 3 (1987): 149?179. > >Thank you. > >Sincerely, >John >__________________________________ >John Nemec, Ph.D. >Editor, Religion in Translation Series (AAR and OUP) >Associate Professor, Indian Religions and South Asian Studies >Department of Religious Studies >University of Virginia >323 Gibson Hall / 1540 Jefferson Park Avenue >Charlottesville, VA 22904 (USA) >nemec at virginia.edu >+1-434-924-6716 >http://virginia.academia.edu/JNemec > >_______________________________________________ >INDOLOGY mailing list >INDOLOGY at list.indology.info >indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) >http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) __________________________________ John Nemec, Ph.D. Editor, Religion in Translation Series (AAR and OUP) Associate Professor, Indian Religions and South Asian Studies Department of Religious Studies University of Virginia 323 Gibson Hall / 1540 Jefferson Park Avenue Charlottesville, VA 22904 (USA) nemec at virginia.edu +1-434-924-6716 http://virginia.academia.edu/JNemec From dnreigle at gmail.com Sun Mar 13 20:21:08 2016 From: dnreigle at gmail.com (David and Nancy Reigle) Date: Sun, 13 Mar 16 14:21:08 -0600 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Pune Dictionary In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Thank you, Patrick, for bringing this up. I have noticed a steady decrease in the size of the volumes, starting with vol. 3. My copy of vol. 9 lacks a volume title page, having only the Part title page (volume nine, part one), although all three parts are present. It also has no print on the binding. It has just a plain blue cloth binding with nothing to identify it from the outside. All the previous volumes were black with gold-stamped print. I do not yet have vol. 10 (or 28!). It is a shame that this huge and important dictionary project is having these publication problems, presumably due to financial difficulties. Almost all of the original contributors who went through the Sanskrit texts and prepared the slips from which the dictionary is compiled are now dead. I suppose we must be grateful that publication is still continuing on a regular basis. Yet I would have liked to see all the volumes come out in the size matching the magnificent first two volumes. Best regards, David Reigle Colorado, U.S.A. On Sun, Mar 13, 2016 at 12:49 PM, Olivelle, J P wrote: > I wonder whether any of you have noted the changes made to the latest > volume of the Pune Sanskrit Dictionary. The 9th volume was published 2011. > When we should have expected Vol. 10, we now have the 2012 publication of > Vol. 28!! It is both shorter and narrower than the previous ones. I assume > that Vol. 28 is arrived at by renaming each fascicule contained in the > previous volumes as a separate volume. For those trying to cite the work, > however, this will cause problems. > > Patrick > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing > committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or > unsubscribe) > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From yogacara at gmail.com Sun Mar 13 20:51:52 2016 From: yogacara at gmail.com (Dan Lusthaus) Date: Sun, 13 Mar 16 16:51:52 -0400 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Origin of Mah?c?na Message-ID: <7BA1240E48D64E4F84D66EA931A0500D@Dan> The conversation did take a speculative turn with the tantric geographic identifications. It is unambiguous however that earlier the Chinese and Indians were identifying China as Mah?c?na and C?na. In certain contexts, the Chinese transcribed the sounds rather than use the character for Qin. The following from Huili's Biography of Xuanzang, written contemporaneously with Xuanzang (mid-7th c reflects early Tang usage of how Indians supposedly referred to China. ??????????????2?????????[8]?????????????[9]?????[10]??????????(CBETA, T50, no. 2053, p. 231, a13-15) [8]????????[9]????????????????????[10]??????? ????]? = Mah?-c?na country. Some editions omit ? (guo / country), leaving just ???? = Mah?-c?na. Li Rongxi translates this: "During that night all the monks of the monastery had a dream in which a divine being told them, 'This guest monk coming from Mah?c?na wishes to study the scriptures in India, to visit and worship the holy sites...'" Later in the same text, an Indian monk is asked by fellow monks to send a letter to Xuanzang who is now back in China. The letter begins: ??????????????7????????????????????????????????????????????????????????(CBETA, T50, no. 2053, p. 261, b8-11) Li Rongxi's tr: The abbot Praj??deva, of Mah?bodhi Monastery at the Diamond Seat of the mysterious and auspicious World-Honored One, surrounded by a multitude of learned monks, begs to send this letter to the Mok??c?rya of the country of Mah?c?na, who is most learned in the subtle teachings of many scriptures, disciplinary texts, and treatises, extending to him unlimited respect and wishing that he may live in good health with least ailment and trouble. Praj??deva is rendered in translated Chinese (Hui tian ??); Mah?bodhi is transcribed (????); Mok??c?rya is also transcribed (??????). And China is referred to as ????? Mah?c?na country. It is nteresting to note that the first Mah?c?na transcription uses ? for the "chi" sound, while the second uses ? (in modern mandarin, both are pronounced zhi-first tone): ???? and ????. Both ?? and ?? are recognized as old transcriptions of China. CBETA yields 30 hits for the second transcription ????, all from Tang, Song, and Ming, showing that this name for China was occasionally used long after the Later Qin. C?na ?? has 534 hits, but one would have to weed through them to see which refer to China or something Chinese, and which are used for other transcriptions. The first transcription ????, however, gets no hits aside from the one in the Biography above. ?? C?na by itself gets 52 hits. E.g. ????????11?11 ????????????(??)??(CBETA, T03, no. 190, p. 703, c20), Abhini?krama?a s?tra, tr. by J??nagupta between 587-597 CE, during the Sui Dynasty. Amongst a list of countries, it includes "the country of C?na" and in parentheses, "Great Sui".) The term C?na was not just a geographical identity, but an ethnic one as well. The Biography of Xuanzang refers to Chinese as an ethnic lineage thus: ??????????????5????????????????????????????([26]??????)??(CBETA, T50, no. 2053, p. 250, b25-27) [26]????????? Li tr: The king was wise and intelligent and had been on the Throne for many years. He acknowledged himself to be a descendent of the C?na-deva-gotra (the Divine Stock of Han). That is transcribed and then translated: ??????? (??????) ?? = C?na ?? = deva ??? = gotra ?? = "in Tang [=Chinese] language" ???? = ? Han [=Chinese] + ?? = sun god + ? = seed. This is interesting because we have three Chinese references to "China": C?na, Tang, and Han. The Chinese recognize that foreigners call them China, they identify with their current polity, the Tang dynasty, and ethnically as Han. Like Arjuna in the Gita they can have many names. So it is unambiguous that the term China or maha-Cina was being used as self-reference still in the Sui and Tang, and additional citations from Song, Ming, etc. sources could be easily added. It also confirms that Indians (and others) were using the name China or Maha-China already in the 6th and 7th centuries. Incidentally, I have found at least one usage of "In Qin language it would be" in a text from the late 3rd c., which would predate the Latter QIn dynasty by nearly a century: Chronicle of A?oka, tr. by An Faqin ???, a Parthian, ca. 281-306 ???????7???????????????????)?(CBETA, T50, no. 2042, p. 127, a16) It says: "...Sudatta, in Qin language is good intention." Dan Lusthaus . ----- Original Message ----- From: Andrea Acri To: indology at list.indology.info Sent: Sunday, March 13, 2016 9:16 AM Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] Origin of Mah?c?na The issue as to what were the geographical entities denoted by the terms c?na and mah?c?na (at different times, mainly in Buddhist Tantric texts) has generated quite a lot of discussion; however, I was not aware of an Eastern Indian/Burmese identification. Here suffice it to say that Mah?c?na appears to refer to China proper in the A??asah?srika-Praj??p?ramit? Nepalese manuscript of AD 1015, since it locates Ma?jugho?a there (mah?c?ne ma?jugho?e, which refers to Ma?ju?r? at Mt Wutai). According to Geoff Wade, Zina was the term used by the inhabitants of Yelang (a polity in the western Guizhou region) to refer to themselves, and is possibly the source of Sanskrit c?na (see ?The Polity of Yelang and the origin of the name ??China???, Sino Platonic Papers 188, May 2009, available online). Best Andrea On 12 March 2016 at 7:13:10 am, Loriliai Biernacki (loriliai.biernacki at colorado.edu) wrote: I located the Dvivedi quote, in case anyone is interested: --?ityatra var?itau c?nasn?nanamask?rau isl?madharm?nuy?yin?? vaju-namaj-karma?? anuharata??- this comes from the intro to the ?aktisa?gama Tantra, vol.4, p.42. Maybe yes, my own sense is that in this context C?na points less to a known region and more simply functions as a place-holder for the category of the foreign; in part I think this because the practices in the C?n?c?ratantra, which are primarily sexual in nature, appear to be rooted in practices popular in Bengal and Western Assam, unlike the practices associated with Eastern Assam, Sadiya for instance, and Burma, known for human sacrifice. Of course this doesn?t discount your point that C?na might have simply referred to a vague geographic region that these writers supposed to be located where contemporary Burma, Nagaland etc are. I suspect that the Bengali and Western Assamese writers use the term because it already signified a functional geographic ?other?, in this case somewhat denigrated, (maybe similar to the medieval and early modern European uses of the ?orient??), and maybe also not so different from one of V.V. Dvivedi?s 20th century introductions where he compares the c?n?c?ra practice to Muslim practices. All best, Loriliai From: INDOLOGY on behalf of Dominik Wujastyk Date: Thursday, March 10, 2016 at 9:17 PM To: Indology Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] Origin of Mah?c?na I'm an outsider in this discussion, so pardon any naive remarks. I was under the impression, though, from something I read somewhere (that statement wouldn't get past Wikipedia) that C?na in Tantrika texts, especially the Mah?c?n?c?ratantra, referred to what we today call the Assam-Burma region. Meghalaya, Manipur, Nagaland, Tripura, Northern Burma that sort of area. Best, Dominik -- Professor Dominik Wujastyk* Singhmar Chair in Classical Indian Society and Polity Department of History and Classics University of Alberta, Canada _______________________________________________ INDOLOGY mailing list INDOLOGY at list.indology.info indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ INDOLOGY mailing list INDOLOGY at list.indology.info indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bill.m.mak at gmail.com Mon Mar 14 04:25:06 2016 From: bill.m.mak at gmail.com (Bill Mak) Date: Mon, 14 Mar 16 11:25:06 +0700 Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_[INDOLOGY]_Origin_of_Mah=C4=81c=C4=ABna?= In-Reply-To: <7BA1240E48D64E4F84D66EA931A0500D@Dan> Message-ID: <2CF98E99-87E2-4B71-9110-9D5ECF6A5DA7@gmail.com> >From the numerous Chinese sources, it is clear that by the late sixth century c?na (or later mah?c?na as Dan pointed out) refers to Sui/Tang China without any ambiguity, for both the Chinese, Central Asian and Indian Buddhists. Of course, we have the earlier ??/?? which connects to the Iranian ??n/??nist?n/??nast?n, Sogdian ?ynstn and Syriac Sinsan. It makes sense that it was the Central Asians who first associate the Chinese with "cin" and later Sanskrit writers adopted that usage. For the origin of c?na, Geoff Wade in his Sino-Platonic Paper did an excellent job summarizing all the discussions so far. The various proposals include Qin?, Jin?, Latter Qin??, as well as Wade's own suggestion of Yelang??. Unless we have more convincing arguments, it seems that we don't have enough evidence to say which is the definite answer. Personally, I would rule out Qin? on phonological (voicing) and historical grounds. Chinese referring themselves as descendent of Qin or that the memory of Qin gets stuck among foreigners centuries after the short-lived Qin Empire ended is not impossible but rather unlikely. Wade's own derivation of ?ina from Yelang appears somewhat convoluted and some of his arguments are based on the outdated Indological scholarship that assumes everything from the Artha??stra and Mah?bh?rata come before 300 BC. Bill Mak On 2016/03/14, at 3:51, Dan Lusthaus wrote: > The conversation did take a speculative turn with the tantric geographic identifications. It is unambiguous however that earlier the Chinese and Indians were identifying China as Mah?c?na and C?na. In certain contexts, the Chinese transcribed the sounds rather than use the character for Qin. > > The following from Huili's Biography of Xuanzang, written contemporaneously with Xuanzang (mid-7th c reflects early Tang usage of how Indians supposedly referred to China. > > ??????????????2?????????[8]?????????????[9]?????[10]??????????(CBETA, T50, no. 2053, p. 231, a13-15) > [8]????????[9]????????????????????[10]??????? > > ????]? = Mah?-c?na country. > > Some editions omit ? (guo / country), leaving just ???? = Mah?-c?na. > > Li Rongxi translates this: "During that night all the monks of the monastery had a dream in which a divine being told them, 'This guest monk coming from Mah?c?na wishes to study the scriptures in India, to visit and worship the holy sites...'" > > Later in the same text, an Indian monk is asked by fellow monks to send a letter to Xuanzang who is now back in China. The letter begins: > > ??????????????7????????????????????????????????????????????????????????(CBETA, T50, no. 2053, p. 261, b8-11) > > Li Rongxi's tr: > The abbot Praj??deva, of Mah?bodhi Monastery at the Diamond Seat of the mysterious and auspicious World-Honored One, surrounded by a multitude of learned monks, begs to send this letter to the Mok??c?rya of the country of Mah?c?na, who is most learned in the subtle teachings of many scriptures, disciplinary texts, and treatises, extending to him unlimited respect and wishing that he may live in good health with least ailment and trouble. > > Praj??deva is rendered in translated Chinese (Hui tian ??); Mah?bodhi is transcribed (????); Mok??c?rya is also transcribed (??????). And China is referred to as????? Mah?c?na country. > > It is nteresting to note that the first Mah?c?na transcription uses ? for the "chi" sound, while the second uses ? (in modern mandarin, both are pronounced zhi-first tone): ???? and ????. Both ?? and ?? are recognized as old transcriptions of China. > > CBETA yields 30 hits for the second transcription ????, all from Tang, Song, and Ming, showing that this name for China was occasionally used long after the Later Qin. > > C?na ?? has 534 hits, but one would have to weed through them to see which refer to China or something Chinese, and which are used for other transcriptions. > > The first transcription ????, however, gets no hits aside from the one in the Biography above. ?? C?na by itself gets 52 hits. E.g. ????????11?11 ????????????(??)??(CBETA, T03, no. 190, p. 703, c20), Abhini?krama?a s?tra, tr. by J??nagupta between 587-597 CE, during the Sui Dynasty. Amongst a list of countries, it includes "the country of C?na" and in parentheses, "Great Sui".) > > The term C?na was not just a geographical identity, but an ethnic one as well. The Biography of Xuanzang refers to Chinese as an ethnic lineage thus: > > ??????????????5????????????????????????????([26]??????)??(CBETA, T50, no. 2053, p. 250, b25-27) > [26]????????? > > Li tr: > The king was wise and intelligent and had been on the Throne for many years. He acknowledged himself to be a descendent of the C?na-deva-gotra (the Divine Stock of Han). > > That is transcribed and then translated: ??????? (??????) > ?? = C?na > ?? = deva > ??? = gotra > > ?? = "in Tang [=Chinese] language" > ???? = ? Han [=Chinese] + ?? = sun god + ? = seed. > > This is interesting because we have three Chinese references to "China": C?na, Tang, and Han. The Chinese recognize that foreigners call them China, they identify with their current polity, the Tang dynasty, and ethnically as Han. Like Arjuna in the Gita they can have many names. > > So it is unambiguous that the term China or maha-Cina was being used as self-reference still in the Sui and Tang, and additional citations from Song, Ming, etc. sources could be easily added. It also confirms that Indians (and others) were using the name China or Maha-China already in the 6th and 7th centuries. > > Incidentally, I have found at least one usage of "In Qin language it would be" in a text from the late 3rd c., which would predate the Latter QIn dynasty by nearly a century: > > Chronicle of A?oka, tr. by An Faqin ???, a Parthian, ca. 281-306 > ???????7???????????????????)?(CBETA, T50, no. 2042, p. 127, a16) > > It says: "...Sudatta, in Qin language is good intention." > > Dan Lusthaus > > . > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Andrea Acri > To: indology at list.indology.info > Sent: Sunday, March 13, 2016 9:16 AM > Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] Origin of Mah?c?na > > The issue as to what were the geographical entities denoted by the terms c?na and mah?c?na (at different times, mainly in Buddhist Tantric texts) has generated quite a lot of discussion; however, I was not aware of an Eastern Indian/Burmese identification. Here suffice it to say that Mah?c?na appears to refer to China proper in the A??asah?srika-Praj??p?ramit? Nepalese manuscript of AD 1015, since it locates Ma?jugho?a there (mah?c?ne ma?jugho?e, which refers to Ma?ju?r? at Mt Wutai). > > According to Geoff Wade, Zina was the term used by the inhabitants of Yelang (a polity in the western Guizhou region) to refer to themselves, and is possibly the source of Sanskrit c?na (see ?The Polity of Yelang and the origin of the name ??China???, Sino Platonic Papers 188, May 2009, available online). > > Best > > Andrea > > On 12 March 2016 at 7:13:10 am, Loriliai Biernacki (loriliai.biernacki at colorado.edu) wrote: > >> I located the Dvivedi quote, in case anyone is interested: --?ityatra var?itau c?nasn?nanamask?rau isl?madharm?nuy?yin?? vaju-namaj-karma?? anuharata??- this comes from the intro to the ?aktisa?gama Tantra, vol.4, p.42. >> >> Maybe yes, my own sense is that in this context C?na points less to a known region and more simply functions as a place-holder for the category of the foreign; in part I think this because the practices in the C?n?c?ratantra, which are primarily sexual in nature, appear to be rooted in practices popular in Bengal and Western Assam, unlike the practices associated with Eastern Assam, Sadiya for instance, and Burma, known for human sacrifice. >> Of course this doesn?t discount your point that C?na might have simply referred to a vague geographic region that these writers supposed to be located where contemporary Burma, Nagaland etc are. I suspect that the Bengali and Western Assamese writers use the term because it already signified a functional geographic ?other?, in this case somewhat denigrated, (maybe similar to the medieval and early modern European uses of the ?orient??), and maybe also not so different from one of V.V. Dvivedi?s 20th century introductions where he compares the c?n?c?ra practice to Muslim practices. >> All best, >> Loriliai >> >> >> >> From: INDOLOGY on behalf of Dominik Wujastyk >> Date: Thursday, March 10, 2016 at 9:17 PM >> To: Indology >> Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] Origin of Mah?c?na >> >> I'm an outsider in this discussion, so pardon any naive remarks. I was under the impression, though, from something I read somewhere (that statement wouldn't get past Wikipedia) that C?na in Tantrika texts, especially the Mah?c?n?c?ratantra, referred to what we today call the Assam-Burma region. Meghalaya, Manipur, Nagaland, Tripura, Northern Burma that sort of area. >> >> Best, >> Dominik >> >> -- >> Professor Dominik Wujastyk* >> Singhmar Chair in Classical Indian Society and Polity >> Department of History and Classics >> University of Alberta, Canada >> >> _______________________________________________ >> INDOLOGY mailing list >> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info >> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) >> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) > > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From peter.daniel.szanto at gmail.com Mon Mar 14 09:51:49 2016 From: peter.daniel.szanto at gmail.com (=?utf-8?B?UMOpdGVyLUTDoW5pZWwgU3rDoW50w7M=?=) Date: Mon, 14 Mar 16 11:51:49 +0200 Subject: [INDOLOGY] pdf request Message-ID: Dear colleagues, I'd be most grateful for a pdf of the following article: - E.H. Johnston, The Tridan?d?ama?la? of As?vaghos?a, Journal of the Bihar and Orissa Research Society, vol. 25 (1939), pp. 11-14. With many thanks in advance, Peter Szanto -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From klongwaters at utexas.edu Mon Mar 14 10:34:02 2016 From: klongwaters at utexas.edu (Kathleen Marie Longwaters) Date: Mon, 14 Mar 16 05:34:02 -0500 Subject: [INDOLOGY] pdf request In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Greetings All, This is something I would also very much like to have a pdf of. Thanks. All the best, Kathleen Longwaters On Mon, Mar 14, 2016 at 4:51 AM, P?ter-D?niel Sz?nt? < peter.daniel.szanto at gmail.com> wrote: > Dear colleagues, > > I'd be most grateful for a pdf of the following article: > > > - > > E.H. Johnston, The Tridan?d?ama?la? of As?vaghos?a, Journal of the > Bihar > > and Orissa Research Society, vol. 25 (1939), pp. 11-14. > > With many thanks in advance, > > Peter Szanto > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing > committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or > unsubscribe) > -- Kathleen Longwaters Fulbright-Nehru Fellow, 2015-2016 Ph.D. Candidate Asian Languages and Cultures Department of Asian Studies University of Texas at Austin klongwaters at utexas.edu -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mkapstei at uchicago.edu Mon Mar 14 11:02:28 2016 From: mkapstei at uchicago.edu (Matthew Kapstein) Date: Mon, 14 Mar 16 11:02:28 +0000 Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_[INDOLOGY]_Origin_of_Mah=C4=81c=C4=ABna?= In-Reply-To: <2CF98E99-87E2-4B71-9110-9D5ECF6A5DA7@gmail.com> Message-ID: <82C3E42590D939418C74DD76B97DDED047B66CAB@xm-mbx-04-prod> It is curious that one never sees c??na used in Tibetan materials until comparatively late times. The ubiquitous Tibetan term for China is rgya-nag, though from about the 10c. on one also sometimes sees stong-kun, (presumably from Ch. dong jun ?|? or dongjing ?|?? though there is some controversy about this). Rgya-nag is traditionally said to mean the "black expanse," referring to the realm in which people wore black clothes, however, I suppose that it might also come from ??? -- one would have to go back to the Middle Chinese phonology to be sure that this is plausible. If so, then the Tibetan evidence would argue for this hypothesis and against Qin as the sourse-term. . Matthew Kapstein Directeur d'??tudes, Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes Numata Visiting Professor of Buddhist Studies, The University of Chicago ________________________________ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From wujastyk at gmail.com Mon Mar 14 14:46:07 2016 From: wujastyk at gmail.com (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Mon, 14 Mar 16 08:46:07 -0600 Subject: [INDOLOGY] pdf request In-Reply-To: Message-ID: apparently here: - http://www.new.dli.ernet.in/handle/2015/280584 (I haven't checked) -- Professor Dominik Wujastyk* Singhmar Chair in Classical Indian Society and Polity Department of History and Classics University of Alberta, Canada On 14 March 2016 at 03:51, P?ter-D?niel Sz?nt? < peter.daniel.szanto at gmail.com> wrote: > Dear colleagues, > > I'd be most grateful for a pdf of the following article: > > > - > > E.H. Johnston, The Tridan?d?ama?la? of As?vaghos?a, Journal of the > Bihar > > and Orissa Research Society, vol. 25 (1939), pp. 11-14. > > With many thanks in advance, > > Peter Szanto > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing > committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or > unsubscribe) > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From peter.daniel.szanto at gmail.com Mon Mar 14 14:54:41 2016 From: peter.daniel.szanto at gmail.com (=?utf-8?B?UMOpdGVyLUTDoW5pZWwgU3rDoW50w7M=?=) Date: Mon, 14 Mar 16 14:54:41 +0000 Subject: [INDOLOGY] pdf request In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Dear colleagues, With kind permission from Vincent Eltschinger, please find attached the article. I am very grateful to him, as well as Christian Ferstl and Reinhold Gruenendahl for coming to the rescue. I need hardly say ? but should to, all the same ? that this is wonderful group of helpful and extremely knowledgeable people. Once again, I am very grateful. Peter Szanto On Mon, Mar 14, 2016 at 2:46 PM, Dominik Wujastyk wrote: > apparently here: > > - http://www.new.dli.ernet.in/handle/2015/280584 > > (I haven't checked) > > -- > Professor Dominik Wujastyk* > Singhmar Chair in Classical Indian Society and Polity > Department of History and Classics > > University of Alberta, Canada > > On 14 March 2016 at 03:51, P?ter-D?niel Sz?nt? < > peter.daniel.szanto at gmail.com> wrote: > >> Dear colleagues, >> >> I'd be most grateful for a pdf of the following article: >> >> >> - >> >> E.H. Johnston, The Tridan?d?ama?la? of As?vaghos?a, Journal of the >> Bihar >> >> and Orissa Research Society, vol. 25 (1939), pp. 11-14. >> >> With many thanks in advance, >> >> Peter Szanto >> >> _______________________________________________ >> INDOLOGY mailing list >> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info >> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing >> committee) >> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or >> unsubscribe) >> > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Johnston_1939_Tridandamala.pdf Type: application/pdf Size: 533961 bytes Desc: not available URL: From klongwaters at utexas.edu Mon Mar 14 15:06:12 2016 From: klongwaters at utexas.edu (Kathleen Longwaters) Date: Mon, 14 Mar 16 20:36:12 +0530 Subject: [INDOLOGY] pdf request In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I would also like to thank all who sent copies of this article, and could not agree with Dr. Szanto's sentiments more. This is an amazing group. All the best, Kathleen Longwaters Sent from my iPad > On Mar 14, 2016, at 8:24 PM, P?ter-D?niel Sz?nt? wrote: > > Dear colleagues, > > With kind permission from Vincent Eltschinger, please find attached the article. I am very grateful to him, as well as Christian Ferstl and Reinhold Gruenendahl for coming to the rescue. > > I need hardly say ? but should to, all the same ? that this is wonderful group of helpful and extremely knowledgeable people. Once again, I am very grateful. > > Peter Szanto > > >> On Mon, Mar 14, 2016 at 2:46 PM, Dominik Wujastyk wrote: >> apparently here: >> http://www.new.dli.ernet.in/handle/2015/280584 >> (I haven't checked) >> >> >> -- >> Professor Dominik Wujastyk* >> Singhmar Chair in Classical Indian Society and Polity >> Department of History and Classics >> University of Alberta, Canada >> >>> On 14 March 2016 at 03:51, P?ter-D?niel Sz?nt? wrote: >>> Dear colleagues, >>> >>> I'd be most grateful for a pdf of the following article: >>> >>> E.H. Johnston, The Tridan?d?ama?la? of As?vaghos?a, Journal of the Bihar >>> >>> and Orissa Research Society, vol. 25 (1939), pp. 11-14. >>> >>> With many thanks in advance, >>> >>> Peter Szanto >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> INDOLOGY mailing list >>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info >>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) >>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) >> > > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dnreigle at gmail.com Mon Mar 14 17:35:40 2016 From: dnreigle at gmail.com (David and Nancy Reigle) Date: Mon, 14 Mar 16 11:35:40 -0600 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Taittiriya Aranyaka with Bhaskara Misra's commentary In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Dear Harry, It sounds like you are looking specifically for a PDF of the 1902 original edition of vol. 3. As you know, all three volumes were photographically reprinted in one volume in 1985 by Motilal Banarsidass. If you can use a scan of vol. 3 from this reprint, I am sure that many people on this list have a copy of it. As for your other question, I do not know of any other edition with Bhaskara-misra's commentary. Best regards, David Reigle Colorado, U.S.A. On Sun, Mar 13, 2016 at 11:48 AM, Harry Spier wrote: > I have been unable to get a pdf ot vol. 3 of the Taittiriya Aranyaka with > Bhaskara Misra's commentary by Sastri and Rangacarya. > > Does anyone know if there have been any other editions of the Taittiriya > Aranyaka with Bhaskararamisra's commentary published? > > I thought I had seen somewhere on-line (where I can't remember) that an > edition had been published by Ananda Ashram edited by Abhyankara with an > introduction by VV Dvivedi but when I did a search of the KVK on-line > collection of library catalogues all I could come up with was the entry for > Abhyankara's edition with Sayana's commentary also published by Ananda > Ashram. > > Thanks, > Harry Spier > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing > committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or > unsubscribe) > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From john.darumadera at gmail.com Mon Mar 14 20:46:20 2016 From: john.darumadera at gmail.com (John Huntington) Date: Mon, 14 Mar 16 16:46:20 -0400 Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_[INDOLOGY]_Origin_of_Mah=C4=81c=C4=ABna?= In-Reply-To: <2CF98E99-87E2-4B71-9110-9D5ECF6A5DA7@gmail.com> Message-ID: The following provides a concrete example of the use of "mah?c?na/e" the the context of the practice of Sanskrit Buddhism in the ca. 13th century. Mah?c?na, is widely known among the Newar Buddhists as the homeland of Ma?ju?r? Bodhisattva. It occurs in the Svayambh?pura?a and other references to Ma?ju?r?. According to Paul Williams, reference to this connection of manjusri to Wutai is found in the Avatamsaka, (Williams, Paul. *Mahayana Buddhism: The Doctrinal Foundations.* 2000. p. 227). In the famous iconographic set in a Nepalese Astasahasrika (Cambridge 1643) Mah?c?ne occurs three times once for *Ma?jugho?a? *[folio 202v], once for *Samantabhadra?* [folio 127r], and once for* Buddhar?paka Lokan?tha?* [folio 123v]. Since this manuscript is in Sanskrit, it may be that Mah?c?na was a term known in India at the time ca. 12-13th Cent century. See: Foucher, A. ?tude sur l'Iconographie Bouddhique de l'Inde d'apres des documents nouveaux, vol. 1. Paris, Ernest Leroux (Tokio, maison Franco-Japonaies 1928) < http://dsr.nii.ac.jp/toyobunko/XII-11-C-27/V-1/page/0001.html.en> John C. Huntington, Professor Emeritus Buddhist Art, Asian Numismatics, Field and Object Art Photography john.darumadera at gmail.com On Mon, Mar 14, 2016 at 12:25 AM, Bill Mak wrote: > From the numerous Chinese sources, it is clear that by the late sixth > century c?na (or later mah?c?na as Dan pointed out) refers to Sui/Tang > China without any ambiguity, for both the Chinese, Central Asian and Indian > Buddhists. Of course, we have the earlier ??/?? which connects to the > Iranian ??n/??nist?n/??nast?n, Sogdian ?ynstn and Syriac Sinsan. It makes > sense that it was the Central Asians who first associate the Chinese with > "cin" and later Sanskrit writers adopted that usage. > > For the origin of c?na, Geoff Wade in his Sino-Platonic Paper did an > excellent job summarizing all the discussions so far. The various proposals > include Qin?, Jin?, Latter Qin??, as well as Wade's own suggestion of > Yelang??. Unless we have more convincing arguments, it seems that we don't > have enough evidence to say which is the definite answer. Personally, I > would rule out Qin? on phonological (voicing) and historical grounds. > Chinese referring themselves as descendent of Qin or that the memory of Qin > gets stuck among foreigners centuries after the short-lived Qin Empire > ended is not impossible but rather unlikely. Wade's own derivation of ?ina > from Yelang appears somewhat convoluted and some of his arguments are based > on the outdated Indological scholarship that assumes everything from the > Artha??stra and Mah?bh?rata come before 300 BC. > > Bill Mak > > On 2016/03/14, at 3:51, Dan Lusthaus wrote: > > The conversation did take a speculative turn with the tantric geographic > identifications. It is unambiguous however that earlier the Chinese and > Indians were identifying China as Mah?c?na and C?na. In certain contexts, > the Chinese transcribed the sounds rather than use the character for Qin. > > The following from Huili's Biography of Xuanzang, written > contemporaneously with Xuanzang (mid-7th c reflects early Tang usage of how > Indians supposedly referred to China. > > ??????????????2?????????[8]?????????????[9]?????[10]??????????(CBETA, T50, > no. 2053, p. 231, a13-15) > [8]????????[9]????????????????????[10]??????? > > ????]? = Mah?-c?na country. > > Some editions omit ? (guo / country), leaving just ???? = Mah?-c?na. > > Li Rongxi translates this: "During that night all the monks of the > monastery had a dream in which a divine being told them, 'This guest monk > coming from Mah?c?na wishes to study the scriptures in India, to visit and > worship the holy sites...'" > > Later in the same text, an Indian monk is asked by fellow monks to send a > letter to Xuanzang who is now back in China. The letter begins: > > ??????????????7????????????????????????????????????????????????????????(CBETA, > T50, no. 2053, p. 261, b8-11) > > Li Rongxi's tr: > The abbot Praj??deva, of Mah?bodhi Monastery at the Diamond Seat of the > mysterious and auspicious World-Honored One, surrounded by a multitude of > learned monks, begs to send this letter to the Mok??c?rya of the country of > Mah?c?na, who is most learned in the subtle teachings of many > scriptures, disciplinary texts, and treatises, extending to him unlimited > respect and wishing that he may live in good health with least ailment and > trouble. > > Praj??deva is rendered in translated Chinese (Hui tian ??); Mah?bodhi is > transcribed (????); Mok??c?rya is also transcribed (??????). And China is > referred to as????? Mah?c?na country. > > It is nteresting to note that the first Mah?c?na transcription uses ? for > the "chi" sound, while the second uses ? (in modern mandarin, both are > pronounced zhi-first tone): ???? and ????. Both ?? and ?? are recognized as > old transcriptions of China. > > CBETA yields 30 hits for the second transcription ????, all from Tang, > Song, and Ming, showing that this name for China was occasionally used long > after the Later Qin. > > C?na ?? has 534 hits, but one would have to weed through them to see which > refer to China or something Chinese, and which are used for other > transcriptions. > > The first transcription ????, however, gets no hits aside from the one in > the Biography above. ?? C?na by itself gets 52 hits. E.g. ????????11?11 > ????????????(??)??(CBETA, T03, no. 190, p. 703, c20), Abhini?krama?a s?tra, > tr. by J??nagupta between 587-597 CE, during the Sui Dynasty. Amongst a > list of countries, it includes "the country of C?na" and in parentheses, > "Great Sui".) > > The term C?na was not just a geographical identity, but an ethnic one as > well. The Biography of Xuanzang refers to Chinese as an ethnic lineage thus: > > ??????????????5????????????????????????????([26]??????)??(CBETA, T50, no. > 2053, p. 250, b25-27) > [26]????????? > > Li tr: > The king was wise and intelligent and had been on the Throne for many > years. He acknowledged himself to be a descendent of the *C?na-deva-gotra* > (the Divine Stock of Han). > > That is transcribed and then translated: ??????? (??????) > ?? = *C?na* > ?? = deva > ??? = gotra > > ?? = "in Tang [=Chinese] language" > ???? = ? Han [=Chinese] + ?? = sun god + ? = seed. > > This is interesting because we have three Chinese references to "China": > C?na, Tang, and Han. The Chinese recognize that foreigners call them China, > they identify with their current polity, the Tang dynasty, and ethnically > as Han. Like Arjuna in the Gita they can have many names. > > So it is unambiguous that the term China or maha-Cina was being used as > self-reference still in the Sui and Tang, and additional citations from > Song, Ming, etc. sources could be easily added. It also confirms that > Indians (and others) were using the name China or Maha-China already in the > 6th and 7th centuries. > > Incidentally, I have found at least one usage of "In Qin language it would > be" in a text from the late 3rd c., which would predate the Latter QIn > dynasty by nearly a century: > > Chronicle of A?oka, tr. by An Faqin ???, a Parthian, ca. 281-306 > ???????7???????????????????)?(CBETA, T50, no. 2042, p. 127, a16) > > It says: "...Sudatta, in Qin language is good intention." > > Dan Lusthaus > > . > > ----- Original Message ----- > *From:* Andrea Acri > *To:* indology at list.indology.info > *Sent:* Sunday, March 13, 2016 9:16 AM > *Subject:* Re: [INDOLOGY] Origin of Mah?c?na > > The issue as to what were the geographical entities denoted by the terms > c?na and mah?c?na (at different times, mainly in Buddhist Tantric texts) > has generated quite a lot of discussion; however, I was not aware of an > Eastern Indian/Burmese identification. Here suffice it to say that Mah?c?na > appears to refer to China proper in the A??asah?srika-Praj??p?ramit? > Nepalese manuscript of AD 1015, since it locates Ma?jugho?a there (mah?c?ne > ma?jugho?e, which refers to Ma?ju?r? at Mt Wutai). > > According to Geoff Wade, Zina was the term used by the inhabitants of > Yelang (a polity in the western Guizhou region) to refer to themselves, and > is possibly the source of Sanskrit c?na (see ?The Polity of Yelang and the > origin of the name ??China???, Sino Platonic Papers 188, May 2009, > available online). > > Best > > Andrea > > On 12 March 2016 at 7:13:10 am, Loriliai Biernacki ( > loriliai.biernacki at colorado.edu) wrote: > > I located the Dvivedi quote, in case anyone is interested: --?ityatra > var?itau c?nasn?nanamask?rau isl?madharm?nuy?yin?? vaju-namaj-karma?? > anuharata??- this comes from the intro to the ?aktisa?gama Tantra, vol.4, > p.42. > > Maybe yes, my own sense is that in this context C?na points less to a > known region and more simply functions as a place-holder for the category > of the foreign; in part I think this because the practices in the > *C?n?c?ratantra*, which are primarily sexual in nature, appear to be > rooted in practices popular in Bengal and Western Assam, unlike the > practices associated with Eastern Assam, Sadiya for instance, and Burma, > known for human sacrifice. > Of course this doesn?t discount your point that C?na might have simply > referred to a vague geographic region that these writers supposed to be > located where contemporary Burma, Nagaland etc are. I suspect that the > Bengali and Western Assamese writers use the term because it already > signified a functional geographic ?other?, in this case somewhat > denigrated, (maybe similar to the medieval and early modern European uses > of the ?orient??), and maybe also not so different from one of V.V. > Dvivedi?s 20th century introductions where he compares the c?n?c?ra > practice to Muslim practices. > All best, > Loriliai > > > > From: INDOLOGY on behalf of Dominik > Wujastyk > Date: Thursday, March 10, 2016 at 9:17 PM > To: Indology > Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] Origin of Mah?c?na > > I'm an outsider in this discussion, so pardon any naive remarks. I was > under the impression, though, from something I read somewhere (that > statement wouldn't get past Wikipedia) that C?na in Tantrika texts, > especially the *Mah?c?n?c?ratantra*, referred to what we today call the > Assam-Burma region. Meghalaya, Manipur, Nagaland, Tripura, Northern Burma > that sort of area. > > Best, > Dominik > > -- > Professor Dominik Wujastyk* > Singhmar Chair in Classical Indian Society and Polity > Department of History and Classics > > University of Alberta, Canada > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing > committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or > unsubscribe) > > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing > committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or > unsubscribe) > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing > committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or > unsubscribe) > > > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing > committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or > unsubscribe) > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mbroo at abo.fi Tue Mar 15 08:31:24 2016 From: mbroo at abo.fi (mbroo at abo.fi) Date: Tue, 15 Mar 16 10:31:24 +0200 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Raghunandana's Astavimsatitattva Message-ID: <20160315103124.nazrhk4dcg84kk0w@webmail1.abo.fi> Dear Colleagues, Does anyone have a soft copy of Jivananda's edition of Raghunandana's Astavimsatitattva (two volumes)? Any help would be very much appreciated. Sincerely, M?ns Broo -- Dr. M?ns Broo Senior Lecturer of Comparative Religion Editor of Temenos, Nordic Journal of Comparative Religion ?bo Akademi University Fabriksgatan 2 FI-20500 ?bo, Finland phone: +358-2-2154398 fax: +358-2-2154902 mobile: +358-50-5695754 From ondracka at ff.cuni.cz Tue Mar 15 10:08:08 2016 From: ondracka at ff.cuni.cz (Lubomir Ondracka) Date: Tue, 15 Mar 16 11:08:08 +0100 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Raghunandana's Astavimsatitattva In-Reply-To: <20160315103124.nazrhk4dcg84kk0w@webmail1.abo.fi> Message-ID: <20160315110808.5335e494cc87e47e1c9ff94b@ff.cuni.cz> Both volumes are available from DLI (1895 ed.). LO On Tue, 15 Mar 2016 10:31:24 +0200 wrote: > > Dear Colleagues, > > Does anyone have a soft copy of Jivananda's edition of Raghunandana's > Astavimsatitattva (two volumes)? Any help would be very much > appreciated. > > Sincerely, > M?ns Broo > -- > Dr. M?ns Broo > Senior Lecturer of Comparative Religion > Editor of Temenos, Nordic Journal of Comparative Religion > ?bo Akademi University > Fabriksgatan 2 > FI-20500 ?bo, Finland > phone: +358-2-2154398 > fax: +358-2-2154902 > mobile: +358-50-5695754 > > > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) From mmdesh at umich.edu Tue Mar 15 10:24:28 2016 From: mmdesh at umich.edu (Madhav Deshpande) Date: Tue, 15 Mar 16 06:24:28 -0400 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Raghunandana's Astavimsatitattva In-Reply-To: <20160315110808.5335e494cc87e47e1c9ff94b@ff.cuni.cz> Message-ID: Hello Lubomir, I have searched the DLI for Raghunandana and Astavimsatitattva, and I don't come up with anything. Of course, the DLI spellings are capricious. If you know the ID numbers of these two volumes on DLI, it may be easier to locate them. Thanks. Madhav Deshpande On Tue, Mar 15, 2016 at 6:08 AM, Lubomir Ondracka wrote: > Both volumes are available from DLI (1895 ed.). > LO > > > On Tue, 15 Mar 2016 10:31:24 +0200 > wrote: > > > > > Dear Colleagues, > > > > Does anyone have a soft copy of Jivananda's edition of Raghunandana's > > Astavimsatitattva (two volumes)? Any help would be very much > > appreciated. > > > > Sincerely, > > M?ns Broo > > -- > > Dr. M?ns Broo > > Senior Lecturer of Comparative Religion > > Editor of Temenos, Nordic Journal of Comparative Religion > > ?bo Akademi University > > Fabriksgatan 2 > > FI-20500 ?bo, Finland > > phone: +358-2-2154398 > > fax: +358-2-2154902 > > mobile: +358-50-5695754 > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > INDOLOGY mailing list > > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing > committee) > > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options > or unsubscribe) > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing > committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or > unsubscribe) > -- Madhav M. Deshpande Professor of Sanskrit and Linguistics Department of Asian Languages and Cultures 202 South Thayer Street, Suite 6111 The University of Michigan Ann Arbor, MI 48104-1608, USA -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ondracka at ff.cuni.cz Tue Mar 15 10:44:57 2016 From: ondracka at ff.cuni.cz (Lubomir Ondracka) Date: Tue, 15 Mar 16 11:44:57 +0100 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Raghunandana's Astavimsatitattva In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20160315114457.6ccf70785b204f8c03656170@ff.cuni.cz> Yes, you are right, to find a particuar book in DLI is sometimes rather tricky. Raghunanda's Tattvas are spelled variously in DLI, the best way how to find them is via the name of the author (type e.g. "raghunanda bhatt", or a combination of name "raghunanda" and year = 1895, or name "Raghunanda" and title "tatt"). There are different scans of these two volumes (plus some individual Tattvas, usually with Bengali translation). The first volume is unfortunately in a rather poor quality. ( 99999990292614, 99999990320805, 4990010095448, 4990010220704, 4990010200615, 1990020084737). Best, Lubomir On Tue, 15 Mar 2016 06:24:28 -0400 Madhav Deshpande wrote: > Hello Lubomir, > > I have searched the DLI for Raghunandana and Astavimsatitattva, and I > don't come up with anything. Of course, the DLI spellings are capricious. > If you know the ID numbers of these two volumes on DLI, it may be easier to > locate them. Thanks. > > Madhav Deshpande > > On Tue, Mar 15, 2016 at 6:08 AM, Lubomir Ondracka > wrote: > > > Both volumes are available from DLI (1895 ed.). > > LO > > > > > > On Tue, 15 Mar 2016 10:31:24 +0200 > > wrote: > > > > > > > > Dear Colleagues, > > > > > > Does anyone have a soft copy of Jivananda's edition of Raghunandana's > > > Astavimsatitattva (two volumes)? Any help would be very much > > > appreciated. > > > > > > Sincerely, > > > M?ns Broo > > > -- > > > Dr. M?ns Broo > > > Senior Lecturer of Comparative Religion > > > Editor of Temenos, Nordic Journal of Comparative Religion > > > ?bo Akademi University > > > Fabriksgatan 2 > > > FI-20500 ?bo, Finland > > > phone: +358-2-2154398 > > > fax: +358-2-2154902 > > > mobile: +358-50-5695754 > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > INDOLOGY mailing list > > > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > > > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing > > committee) > > > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options > > or unsubscribe) > > > > _______________________________________________ > > INDOLOGY mailing list > > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing > > committee) > > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or > > unsubscribe) > > > > > > -- > Madhav M. Deshpande > Professor of Sanskrit and Linguistics > Department of Asian Languages and Cultures > 202 South Thayer Street, Suite 6111 > The University of Michigan > Ann Arbor, MI 48104-1608, USA From mbroo at abo.fi Tue Mar 15 12:20:45 2016 From: mbroo at abo.fi (mbroo at abo.fi) Date: Tue, 15 Mar 16 14:20:45 +0200 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Raghunandana's Astavimsatitattva In-Reply-To: <20160315114457.6ccf70785b204f8c03656170@ff.cuni.cz> Message-ID: <20160315142045.lyy7fjmxc0c44oc0@webmail1.abo.fi> Thank you, Lubomir! I managed to find vol 2 on my own but now the first as well. Sincerely, M?ns > Yes, you are right, to find a particuar book in DLI is sometimes > rather tricky. > > Raghunanda's Tattvas are spelled variously in DLI, the best way how > to find them is via the name of the author (type e.g. "raghunanda > bhatt", or a combination of name "raghunanda" and year = 1895, or > name "Raghunanda" and title "tatt"). There are different scans of > these two volumes (plus some individual Tattvas, usually with > Bengali translation). The first volume is unfortunately in a rather > poor quality. > ( 99999990292614, 99999990320805, 4990010095448, 4990010220704, > 4990010200615, 1990020084737). > > Best, > > Lubomir > > On Tue, 15 Mar 2016 06:24:28 -0400 > Madhav Deshpande wrote: > >> Hello Lubomir, >> >> I have searched the DLI for Raghunandana and Astavimsatitattva, and I >> don't come up with anything. Of course, the DLI spellings are capricious. >> If you know the ID numbers of these two volumes on DLI, it may be easier to >> locate them. Thanks. >> >> Madhav Deshpande >> >> On Tue, Mar 15, 2016 at 6:08 AM, Lubomir Ondracka >> wrote: >> >> > Both volumes are available from DLI (1895 ed.). >> > LO >> > >> > >> > On Tue, 15 Mar 2016 10:31:24 +0200 >> > wrote: >> > >> > > >> > > Dear Colleagues, >> > > >> > > Does anyone have a soft copy of Jivananda's edition of Raghunandana's >> > > Astavimsatitattva (two volumes)? Any help would be very much >> > > appreciated. >> > > >> > > Sincerely, >> > > M?ns Broo >> > > -- >> > > Dr. M?ns Broo >> > > Senior Lecturer of Comparative Religion >> > > Editor of Temenos, Nordic Journal of Comparative Religion >> > > ?bo Akademi University >> > > Fabriksgatan 2 >> > > FI-20500 ?bo, Finland >> > > phone: +358-2-2154398 >> > > fax: +358-2-2154902 >> > > mobile: +358-50-5695754 >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > _______________________________________________ >> > > INDOLOGY mailing list >> > > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info >> > > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing >> > committee) >> > > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options >> > or unsubscribe) >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > INDOLOGY mailing list >> > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info >> > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing >> > committee) >> > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or >> > unsubscribe) >> > >> >> >> >> -- >> Madhav M. Deshpande >> Professor of Sanskrit and Linguistics >> Department of Asian Languages and Cultures >> 202 South Thayer Street, Suite 6111 >> The University of Michigan >> Ann Arbor, MI 48104-1608, USA > -- Dr. M?ns Broo Senior Lecturer of Comparative Religion Editor of Temenos, Nordic Journal of Comparative Religion ?bo Akademi University Fabriksgatan 2 FI-20500 ?bo, Finland phone: +358-2-2154398 fax: +358-2-2154902 mobile: +358-50-5695754 From veerankp at gmail.com Tue Mar 15 13:11:41 2016 From: veerankp at gmail.com (Veeranarayana Pandurangi) Date: Tue, 15 Mar 16 18:41:41 +0530 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Taittiriya Aranyaka with Bhaskara Misra's commentary In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I have a copy Vol 1 vol 2 but no third vol of Mysore edition with 64 anuvakas however it is indeed published by ananda ashrama with sayana bhasya in 2 volumes 80 anuvakas also published in calcutta 1872 by rajendralal mitra with sayana bhasya On Sun, Mar 13, 2016 at 11:18 PM, Harry Spier wrote: > I have been unable to get a pdf ot vol. 3 of the Taittiriya Aranyaka with > Bhaskara Misra's commentary by Sastri and Rangacarya. > > Does anyone know if there have been any other editions of the Taittiriya > Aranyaka with Bhaskararamisra's commentary published? > > I thought I had seen somewhere on-line (where I can't remember) that an > edition had been published by Ananda Ashram edited by Abhyankara with an > introduction by VV Dvivedi but when I did a search of the KVK on-line > collection of library catalogues all I could come up with was the entry for > Abhyankara's edition with Sayana's commentary also published by Ananda > Ashram. > > Thanks, > Harry Spier > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing > committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or > unsubscribe) > -- Veeranarayana N.K. Pandurangi Director of Academics Dean, Faculty of Vedantas Karnakata Samskrita University, Pampa Mahakavi Road, Chamarajpet, Bengaluru. ?? ??????????? ??????? ???????? ? ????????? ??? ???????? ??????? ? ?????? ??????????????? ?????????????? ??????? ??????? ??????????? ??????????????? ?????? ???????? ??????????? (?.??.) http://www.ksu.ac.in http://www.ksu.ac.in/en/dr-veeranarayana-n-k-pandurangi/ https://groups.google.com/forum/?hl=en&fromgroups#!forum/bvparishat -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From james.hartzell at gmail.com Tue Mar 15 13:51:49 2016 From: james.hartzell at gmail.com (James Hartzell) Date: Tue, 15 Mar 16 19:21:49 +0530 Subject: [INDOLOGY] pdf request Message-ID: Dear Colleagues I find on archive.org vols 1-3 of The Hymns of The Rigveda by Griffith, Ralph T. H. (Ralph Thomas Hotchkin), 1826-1906, ed. and tr vol 4 doesn't appear to be there; might someone have a pdf or be able to point me to a link for it? (vol 3 concludes with Book 9, Hymn No. 60). Cheers James Hartzell, PhD(2x) Center for Mind/Brain Sciences (CIMeC) The University of Trento, Italy -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ajit.gargeshwari at gmail.com Tue Mar 15 16:37:26 2016 From: ajit.gargeshwari at gmail.com (Ajit Gargeshwari) Date: Tue, 15 Mar 16 22:07:26 +0530 Subject: =?utf-8?Q?[INDOLOGY]_=E2=80=8B_Taittiriya_Aranyaka_with_Bhaskara_Misra's_commentary?= Message-ID: ?Not sure what Harry Spier is looking at. Government Oriental Library Series Mysore has published the following in 1900-02: 1. Taittiriya Brahmana with the commentary of Bhattabhaskara, edited by A. Mahadeva Shastri 2. Taittirya Aranyaka with the commentary of Bhattabhaskara, edited by A. Mahadeva Shastri and K Rangacharya Both the above are have been reprinted by Motilal Banarasidas ( http://www.mlbd.com) , but these may not be available. These are complete and can be downloaded from archive.org Anandashram (Pune) (http://www.anandashram-sanstha.org/) has published Taittiriya Aranyaka with the commentary of Sayana. This is complete and also downloadable from archive.org. You can download their list of publications from their site. Note: There are two versions of the Taittiriya Aranyaka - The Mysore edition has 8 prapathakas whereas the Anandashram edition has 10 prapathakas. Regarding Taittiriya Brahmana with Sayana's commentary, Anandashram has published it. There is areprint by Nag Publishers of Delhi. ?Bhattabhaskara's commentary on Kanda 4 (which incidentally contain the Rudram and Chamakam) is not available. Volumes 6 & 7 were never published. The published volumes contain all the other Kandas. A much better place to download them from is: http://archive.org/details/taittiriya . Bhatta Bhaskara's commentaries are much more informative about grammar and svara. On Tue, Mar 15, 2016 at 9:30 PM, wrote: > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > From: Veeranarayana Pandurangi > To: Harry Spier , " > indology at list.indology.info" > Cc: > Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2016 18:41:41 +0530 > Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] > ?? > Taittiriya Aranyaka with Bhaskara Misra's commentary > I have a copy Vol 1 vol 2 but no third vol of Mysore edition with 64 > anuvakas > however it is indeed published by ananda ashrama with sayana bhasya in 2 > volumes 80 anuvakas > also published in calcutta 1872 by rajendralal mitra with sayana bhasya > > On Sun, Mar 13, 2016 at 11:18 PM, Harry Spier > wrote: > >> I have been unable to get a pdf ot vol. 3 of the Taittiriya Aranyaka with >> Bhaskara Misra's commentary by Sastri and Rangacarya. >> >> Does anyone know if there have been any other editions of the Taittiriya >> Aranyaka with Bhaskararamisra's commentary published? >> >> I thought I had seen somewhere on-line (where I can't remember) that an >> edition had been published by Ananda Ashram edited by Abhyankara with an >> introduction by VV Dvivedi but when I did a search of the KVK on-line >> collection of library catalogues all I could come up with was the entry for >> Abhyankara's edition with Sayana's commentary also published by Ananda >> Ashram. >> >> Thanks, >> Harry Spier >> > Regards Ajit Gargeshwari ? ????? ??????? ?? ??????????? ?????? ????? ?? ? ????? ??? ?????? ?????????? ?????? ? ?????? ???????? ???????2.20?? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From malhar at iitb.ac.in Wed Mar 16 12:07:09 2016 From: malhar at iitb.ac.in (Malhar Arvind Kulkarni) Date: Wed, 16 Mar 16 17:37:09 +0530 Subject: [INDOLOGY] A tool to fiddle with Ashtadhyayi In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <83c03b775f19de9fb71f3264b44a9083.squirrel@gpo.iitb.ac.in> Dear Sir, I tried to use your system and have one clarification to seek. With your drop down options I selected ?? and ??????? and ???? and asked the system to generate the forms. First I wanted to see the correct form being generated. Then I wanted to check the "tool by which a student can visualize what effect would occur if a particular sUtra didn't exist in Panini's grammar." So I did not mention the sutra which the system should consider non-existent in Panini's grammar. When I clicked with the input mentioned above and was going through the steps of derivation, I found some steps (quoted below) which generate a different form than one would otherwise expect. I mean 8.2.39 does not get applied where your system applies it. "1 - ??+???????+?+?? By jhal?? ja?o'nte (8.2.39) : ???? ???????? (?.?.??) : 1 - ??+???????+?+?? Final forms are : ????? ??? ??? : 1 - ?? ???????? ?? " I request you to check why this happens and please let me know. with regards. Malhar Kulkarni. > == Sorry for cross posting == > > Respected scholars, > We have been working with Sanskrit verb form derivation computationally. > As a by-product of that work, we have developed a tool by which a student > can visualize what effect would occur if a particular sUtra didn't exist > in > Panini's grammar. > We think it would be of interest to some of you. > > Web page - > http://www.sanskritworld.in/sanskrittool/SanskritVerb/tiGanta.html > > Example: > [image: Inline image 1] > > Execution of code would go on as if sUtra number 8.3.15 > (????????????????????) didn't > exist in Paninian grammar and give the forms > without this rule. This way we would be able to visualize the effect of > absence of rule 8.3.15 on Paninian grammar. > > In the present case, it would be as follows > [image: Inline image 2] > > N.B. - > 1. You can silent multiple sUtras by passing a comma separated value e.g. > 8.3.15,1.3.9 > 2. In future, we plan to generalize the tool so that the computer would > list the rules barred by absence of a given rule and rules which apply > additionally in absence of a given rule. > > Project code - > https://github.com/drdhaval2785/sanskritverb > > Best wishes, > -- > Dr. Dhaval Patel, I.A.S > Collector and District Magistrate, Anand > www.sanskritworld.in > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing > committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or > unsubscribe) From drdhaval2785 at gmail.com Wed Mar 16 13:06:36 2016 From: drdhaval2785 at gmail.com (dhaval patel) Date: Wed, 16 Mar 16 18:36:36 +0530 Subject: [INDOLOGY] A tool to fiddle with Ashtadhyayi In-Reply-To: <83c03b775f19de9fb71f3264b44a9083.squirrel@gpo.iitb.ac.in> Message-ID: Respected sir, Thank you for your feedback. There were two coding errors in the segment you tested. 1. When adding the upasarga to the verb form, it had set $pada to 'pada' from 'pratyaya'. That is why there was wrong application of 'jhalAM jazo'nte'. 2. There was a space left in between wrongly which prevented application of 'iko yaNaci' to generate 'vya....'. Both the errors have been corrected in this commit - https://github.com/drdhaval2785/SanskritVerb/commit/b9c68ffba015e3e425721127409f90f02d6ea2fb . The issue discussion was lodged at - https://github.com/drdhaval2785/SanskritVerb/issues/663. The code on live server is updated for the correction now. Press F5 to remove any old cache. (N.B. Now there is an option to derive Nijanta forms too - in beta mode for testing). -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From pf8 at soas.ac.uk Wed Mar 16 18:29:48 2016 From: pf8 at soas.ac.uk (Peter Flugel) Date: Wed, 16 Mar 16 18:29:48 +0000 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Jaina Studies - Newsletter of the Centre of Jaina Studies Vol. 11 Message-ID: See: http://www.soas.ac.uk/jainastudies/newsletter/file110523.pdf Libraries can subscribe to the printer version in the ways as indicated below. with best wishes Peter Fl?gel Journal Title: Jaina Studies: Newsletter of the Centre of Jaina Studies. ISSN 2059-4151 Subscription services through LM Information Delivery (Libnet), UK, or EBSCO, USA. Annual subscription fee & postage : ?8.00/$12.00. One issue of the journal published annually. Publisher: Centre of Jaina Studies, School of Oriental and African Studies (SOAS), University of London, Thornaugh Street, Russell Square, London WC1H 0XG, United Kingdom. -- Dr Peter Fl?gel Chair, Centre of Jaina Studies Department of Religions and Philosophies Faculty of Arts and Humanities School of Oriental and African Studies University of London Thornhaugh Street Russell Square London WC1H OXG Tel.: (+44-20) 7898 4776 E-mail: pf8 at soas.ac.uk http://www.soas.ac.uk/jainastudies -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cezarygalewicz at yahoo.com Wed Mar 16 21:40:00 2016 From: cezarygalewicz at yahoo.com (Cezary Galewicz) Date: Wed, 16 Mar 16 21:40:00 +0000 Subject: Tirunizhalmaala In-Reply-To: <1200942940.1449024.1458164400905.JavaMail.yahoo.ref@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1200942940.1449024.1458164400905.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Dear Colleagues,?Could anybody share a PDF or indicate where and how to order a copy of?Tirunil?alma?la?(Thirunizhalmala),?early Malayalam ??The only regular edition I am aware of seems to be ?M. M. Purusottamam Nayar, Calicut, Sandhya Books 1981 or Current Books Kottayam 1981 ...? Kindest Regards Cezary Galewicz Cezary GalewiczCenter for Comparative Studies of CivilisationsJagiellonian University Krakow? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From c.ram-prasad at lancaster.ac.uk Wed Mar 16 21:48:04 2016 From: c.ram-prasad at lancaster.ac.uk (Ram-Prasad, Chakravarthi) Date: Wed, 16 Mar 16 21:48:04 +0000 Subject: [INDOLOGY] pandits as donkeys Message-ID: <6B0306A4-7C36-46C8-8C85-5CA69A56965D@lancaster.ac.uk> Hello, Can anyone please give the/a reference for the saying which goes roughly that pandits knowing sacred texts are like donkeys carrying sandalwood? Thanks Ram-Prasad iPhone From Michael.Slouber at wwu.edu Wed Mar 16 21:55:07 2016 From: Michael.Slouber at wwu.edu (Michael Slouber) Date: Wed, 16 Mar 16 21:55:07 +0000 Subject: [INDOLOGY] pandits as donkeys In-Reply-To: <6B0306A4-7C36-46C8-8C85-5CA69A56965D@lancaster.ac.uk> Message-ID: <07CFA94D-FF62-43F9-97A1-5539DB258D3A@wwu.edu> That is Kabir (KG pad 191). Here?s a Sikh performance of it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DebmlzFknKs ?? Michael Slouber Assistant Professor of South Asia Department of Liberal Studies Western Washington University > On ???? ????? ??, at ?:?? ???????, Ram-Prasad, Chakravarthi wrote: > > Hello, > Can anyone please give the/a reference for the saying which goes roughly that pandits knowing sacred texts are like donkeys carrying sandalwood? > Thanks > Ram-Prasad > > iPhone > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) From shankaranair at gmail.com Wed Mar 16 21:58:45 2016 From: shankaranair at gmail.com (Shankar Nair) Date: Wed, 16 Mar 16 17:58:45 -0400 Subject: [INDOLOGY] pandits as donkeys In-Reply-To: <6B0306A4-7C36-46C8-8C85-5CA69A56965D@lancaster.ac.uk> Message-ID: Dear Ram-Prasad, I don't know if it's the first usage, but Kabir uses the image in KG pad 191. Best wishes, Shankar Nair Assistant Professor Department of Religious Studies and Middle Eastern & South Asian Languages & Cultures University of Virginia 363 Gibson Hall 1550 Jefferson Park Avenue Charlottesville, VA 22903 On Wed, Mar 16, 2016 at 5:48 PM, Ram-Prasad, Chakravarthi < c.ram-prasad at lancaster.ac.uk> wrote: > Hello, > Can anyone please give the/a reference for the saying which goes roughly > that pandits knowing sacred texts are like donkeys carrying sandalwood? > Thanks > Ram-Prasad > > iPhone > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing > committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or > unsubscribe) > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From c.ram-prasad at lancaster.ac.uk Wed Mar 16 22:01:14 2016 From: c.ram-prasad at lancaster.ac.uk (Ram-Prasad, Chakravarthi) Date: Wed, 16 Mar 16 22:01:14 +0000 Subject: [INDOLOGY] pandits as donkeys In-Reply-To: Message-ID: As always, the super speed of Indologists! My thanks to Shankar Nair and Michael Slouber. Ram-Prasad iPhone On 16 Mar 2016, at 21:58, Shankar Nair > wrote: Dear Ram-Prasad, I don't know if it's the first usage, but Kabir uses the image in KG pad 191. Best wishes, Shankar Nair Assistant Professor Department of Religious Studies and Middle Eastern & South Asian Languages & Cultures University of Virginia 363 Gibson Hall 1550 Jefferson Park Avenue Charlottesville, VA 22903 On Wed, Mar 16, 2016 at 5:48 PM, Ram-Prasad, Chakravarthi > wrote: Hello, Can anyone please give the/a reference for the saying which goes roughly that pandits knowing sacred texts are like donkeys carrying sandalwood? Thanks Ram-Prasad iPhone _______________________________________________ INDOLOGY mailing list INDOLOGY at list.indology.info indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From diwakar.acharya at bun.kyoto-u.ac.jp Wed Mar 16 22:37:34 2016 From: diwakar.acharya at bun.kyoto-u.ac.jp (Diwakar ACHARYA) Date: Thu, 17 Mar 16 07:37:34 +0900 Subject: [INDOLOGY] pandits as donkeys In-Reply-To: <6B0306A4-7C36-46C8-8C85-5CA69A56965D@lancaster.ac.uk> Message-ID: <145816785422548.484969922@mail02.iimc.kyoto-u.ac.jp> Dear Ram-Prasad ji, This comparison of pundits just carrying sacred texts without knowing their meaning/value is attested in a very old floating verse cited already in the Su?ruta Sa?hit?. While teaching in Kathmandu we had a student who memorized everything without caring for the meaning, and we used to call him Mr. Candanabharav?hin. He was happy with his nickname and had memorized this verse, too. Of course, without caring what it meant. Here is the SS passage: 1.4.3 adhigatamapyadhyayanamaprabh??itamarthata? kharasya candanabh?ra iva kevala? pari?ramakara? bhavati || 1.4.4 bhavati c?tra | 1.4.4ab yath? khara?candanabh?rav?h? bh?rasya vett? na tu candanasya | 1.4.4cd eva? hi ??str??i ba??nyadh?tya c?rthe?u m??h?? kharavadvahanti || Diwakar ----- Original Message ----- >> From: Ram-Prasad, Chakravarthi >> To: "indology at list.indology.info" >> Date: 2016-03-17 06:48:04 >> Subject: [INDOLOGY] pandits as donkeys >> >> Hello, >> Can anyone please give the/a reference for the saying which goes roughly that pandits knowing sacred texts are like donkeys carrying sandalwood? >> Thanks >> Ram-Prasad >> >> iPhone >> _______________________________________________ >> INDOLOGY mailing list >> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info >> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) >> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) >> ********************* Dr. Diwakar N. Acharya Associate Professor Graduate School of Letters Kyoto University Yoshida Honmachi, Sakyo-ku Kyoto 606-8501, Japan Tel.: +81 75 753 2803 (office) +81 774 32 3366 (home) From will.sweetman at gmail.com Thu Mar 17 01:57:33 2016 From: will.sweetman at gmail.com (Will Sweetman) Date: Thu, 17 Mar 16 14:57:33 +1300 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Publishing contracts Message-ID: <56EA0F0D.2090301@gmail.com> In the last few months I've been asked to sign two contracts with Indian publishers which included what seem to me to be very sweeping liability statements. Both required me to warrant that the works in question were original, not plagiarised and did not violate copyright, and that they contained nothing obscene, indecent, objectionable or libelous (one added scandalous and indecent). Both contracts required authors and editors to indemnify the publishers against any costs or losses incurred as a result of breach of these warranties. In both cases these were for edited volumes that included editors and contributors based in India, and I had concerns about the possible implications of these clauses for those based in India for reasons that I suspect no-one on this list will need to have specified. Comparing these contracts with others I've signed with publishers based in the UK and US, I find that the major difference is that the warranties required there related only to "obscene, libelous or unlawful" material, and the indemnity in some cases is limited to losses or costs arising from breach of copyright alone. My question is whether "objectionable" in Indian law simply has the same sense as "unlawful" in other jurisdictions. It seems to me that objectionable covers a much wider range - but perhaps there is a more technical sense. Incidentally, one publisher agreed to amend the contract to a much more limited warranty and indemnity. In the other case, I was unable to persuade my fellow editors to push for an amendment, so I'll never know whether we might have achieved a better position. I think academics too often sign contracts without any negotiation, and I'd be very interested to hear (whether on or off list) whether others have been successful in getting contracts amended. Best wishes Will From r.mahoney at indica-et-buddhica.org Thu Mar 17 03:24:35 2016 From: r.mahoney at indica-et-buddhica.org (Richard Mahoney | Indica et Buddhica) Date: Thu, 17 Mar 16 16:24:35 +1300 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Publishing contracts In-Reply-To: <56EA0F0D.2090301@gmail.com> Message-ID: <56EA2373.8090902@indica-et-buddhica.org> Dear Will, On 2016-03-17 14:57, Will Sweetman wrote: > In the last few months I've been asked to sign two contracts with > Indian publishers which included what seem to me to be very sweeping > liability statements. [snip] > I think academics too often sign contracts without any negotiation, > and I'd be very interested to hear (whether on or off list) whether > others have been successful in getting contracts amended. > > Best wishes > > Will I'd say it would be prudent to have such contracts reviewed by commercial solicitors with international experience and perhaps also by a firm of patent attorneys. Cost is an issue but most firms would be willing to have a chat to give you a sense of what you and your colleagues might be up for. `Frankenstein' contracts are not unknown. Best, Richard -- Richard Mahoney | Indica et Buddhica Littledene Bay Road Oxford 7430 NZ M: +64-21-064-0216 T: +64-3-312-1699 r.mahoney at indica-et-buddhica.org -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 473 bytes Desc: not available URL: From hspier.muktabodha at gmail.com Thu Mar 17 03:44:09 2016 From: hspier.muktabodha at gmail.com (Harry Spier) Date: Wed, 16 Mar 16 23:44:09 -0400 Subject: [INDOLOGY] pdf request In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I just found this link to an on-online version of the Griffith translation. http://www.sacred-texts.com/hin/rigveda/ Harry Spier On Tue, Mar 15, 2016 at 9:51 AM, James Hartzell wrote: > Dear Colleagues > > I find on archive.org vols 1-3 of The Hymns of The Rigveda > by Griffith, Ralph T. H. (Ralph Thomas Hotchkin), 1826-1906, ed. and tr > > vol 4 doesn't appear to be there; might someone have a pdf or be able to > point me to a link for it? > > (vol 3 concludes with Book 9, Hymn No. 60). > > Cheers > > James Hartzell, PhD(2x) > Center for Mind/Brain Sciences (CIMeC) > The University of Trento, Italy > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing > committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or > unsubscribe) > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From james.hartzell at gmail.com Thu Mar 17 04:17:25 2016 From: james.hartzell at gmail.com (James Hartzell) Date: Thu, 17 Mar 16 09:47:25 +0530 Subject: [INDOLOGY] pdf request In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Thanks Harry, that's a great help. Cheers James On Thu, Mar 17, 2016 at 9:14 AM, Harry Spier wrote: > I just found this link to an on-online version of the Griffith translation. > http://www.sacred-texts.com/hin/rigveda/ > > Harry Spier > > On Tue, Mar 15, 2016 at 9:51 AM, James Hartzell > wrote: > >> Dear Colleagues >> >> I find on archive.org vols 1-3 of The Hymns of The Rigveda >> by Griffith, Ralph T. H. (Ralph Thomas Hotchkin), 1826-1906, ed. and tr >> >> vol 4 doesn't appear to be there; might someone have a pdf or be able to >> point me to a link for it? >> >> (vol 3 concludes with Book 9, Hymn No. 60). >> >> Cheers >> >> James Hartzell, PhD(2x) >> Center for Mind/Brain Sciences (CIMeC) >> The University of Trento, Italy >> >> _______________________________________________ >> INDOLOGY mailing list >> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info >> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing >> committee) >> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or >> unsubscribe) >> > > -- James Hartzell, PhD(2x) Center for Mind/Brain Sciences (CIMeC) The University of Trento, Italy -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From c.ram-prasad at lancaster.ac.uk Thu Mar 17 06:52:50 2016 From: c.ram-prasad at lancaster.ac.uk (Ram-Prasad, Chakravarthi) Date: Thu, 17 Mar 16 06:52:50 +0000 Subject: [INDOLOGY] pandits as donkeys In-Reply-To: <145816785422548.484969922@mail02.iimc.kyoto-u.ac.jp> Message-ID: <4BE6EEE6-0F97-4B2D-B7F5-6E17C24A3A1E@lancaster.ac.uk> Thank you, Diwakar and Madhav for this very different aetiology! Ram iPhone > On 16 Mar 2016, at 22:37, Diwakar ACHARYA wrote: > > Dear Ram-Prasad ji, > > This comparison of pundits just carrying sacred texts without knowing their meaning/value is attested in a very old floating verse cited already in the Su?ruta Sa?hit?. While teaching in Kathmandu we had a student who memorized everything without caring for the meaning, and we used to call him Mr. Candanabharav?hin. He was happy with his nickname and had memorized this verse, too. Of course, without caring what it meant. Here is the SS passage: > > 1.4.3 adhigatamapyadhyayanamaprabh??itamarthata? kharasya candanabh?ra iva kevala? pari?ramakara? bhavati || > 1.4.4 bhavati c?tra | > 1.4.4ab yath? khara?candanabh?rav?h? bh?rasya vett? na tu candanasya | > 1.4.4cd eva? hi ??str??i ba??nyadh?tya c?rthe?u m??h?? kharavadvahanti || > > Diwakar > > > > ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: Ram-Prasad, Chakravarthi >>> To: "indology at list.indology.info" >>> Date: 2016-03-17 06:48:04 >>> Subject: [INDOLOGY] pandits as donkeys >>> >>> Hello, >>> Can anyone please give the/a reference for the saying which goes roughly that pandits knowing sacred texts are like donkeys carrying sandalwood? >>> Thanks >>> Ram-Prasad >>> >>> iPhone >>> _______________________________________________ >>> INDOLOGY mailing list >>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info >>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) >>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) > > ********************* > Dr. Diwakar N. Acharya > Associate Professor > Graduate School of Letters > Kyoto University > Yoshida Honmachi, Sakyo-ku > Kyoto 606-8501, Japan > Tel.: +81 75 753 2803 (office) > +81 774 32 3366 (home) From vajpeyi at csds.in Thu Mar 17 11:55:56 2016 From: vajpeyi at csds.in (Ananya Vajpeyi) Date: Thu, 17 Mar 16 17:25:56 +0530 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Pollock / MCLI Message-ID: Dear Colleagues, Drawing your attention to this piece in today's Hindu, on the edit page -- http://www.thehindu.com/opinion/lead/lead-article-by-ananya-vajpeyi-why-sheldon-pollock-matters/article8361572.ece Thanks and best, Ananya Vajpeyi. -- *Ananya Vajpeyi, PhD * *Associate Fellow* *Centre for the Study of Developing Societies* *29 Rajpur Road, Civil Lines* *New Delhi 110054* *e: vajpeyi at csds.in * *ext: 229* *http://www.csds.in/faculty_ananya_vajpeyi.htm * *http://www.hup.harvard.edu/catalog.php?isbn=9780674048959&content=book * *http://www.carnegiecouncil.org/programs/gen/gefellows/current/ananya_vajpeyi.html * -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From hr at ivs.edu Thu Mar 17 13:31:05 2016 From: hr at ivs.edu (Howard Resnick) Date: Thu, 17 Mar 16 08:31:05 -0500 Subject: =?utf-8?Q?[INDOLOGY]_Public_Books_=E2=80=94_Indian_Writers_under_Siege:_A_Roundtable?= Message-ID: <5B0A160B-E9DD-4B5C-B83E-78682FB1BCDD@ivs.edu> I send this as a followup to Ananya Vajpeyi?s impressive article. > http://www.publicbooks.org/interviews/indian-writers-under-siege-a-roundtable > > INDIAN WRITERS UNDER SIEGE: A ROUNDTABLE > > > Students protesting outside the Delhi office of the Hindu-revivalist NGO Rashtriya Swayamsevak Sangh after Dalit scholar Rohith Vemula?s suicide on January 17, 2016. Photograph by Rahul M. > > March 1, 2016 ? It is hard to remember a time when literature attracted so much front-page space, prime airtime, or mass attention in the Indian public sphere as it did in 2015. But not only was this importance accumulated through a particularly perverse chain of events, it was also a particularly toxic kind of importance. Writers, scholars, and journalists were sued, attacked, and murdered throughout last year; in protest, dozens of reputed authors, most of them working in the diverse vernacular languages of India, returned the Sahitya Akademi Award, conferred by India?s National Academy of Letters. At the heart of this ongoing crisis is an increasingly brutal conflict between, on the one hand, a vision of Indian cultural and ethnic purity imagined by Hindu revivalist politics, and, on the other, the freedom of thought and sensibility claimed by literature, historiography, and, most recently, by the social conscience of youth and student populations. The modern, post-Enlightenment conception of literature as ?fiction? here runs up against narratives of religious revivalism that demand the status of absolute truth but actually have very little foundation in historical verisimilitude, sustainable ethics, or, for that matter, viable aesthetics. If anything, the spirit and practice of literature is more deeply grounded in reality?both immediate and historical?than the chauvinist utopia claimed by these ?purifiers? of literature, history, and religion. > > In Marxist terms, this is a superstructural conflict that has now started to irrevocably impact the base of material history. As I write these words, the most recent escalation of this conflict has amounted to an unprecedented attack on India?s leading institution of higher learning, Jawaharlal Nehru University in Delhi. Central-government forces and Delhi police brutalized students participating in a peaceful protest against the execution of Afzal Guru, the Kashmiri activist accused of playing a role in the 2001 shooting attack on the Indian Parliament. What followed was an arrest that set the nation aflame in protest, that of Kanhaiya Kumar, the president of the JNU student union. > > It is at the same time curious and perfectly understandable how literature and, more shockingly, the figures of writers themselves have repeatedly come under threat in India?precisely because their function and existence have been felt to be threatening to the new fabricators of history and culture. Americans might be familiar with how pressure from Hindu right-wing groups led Penguin India to recall Wendy Doniger?s book The Hindus, which chronicled Hinduism with a historical verisimilitude that appalled those committed to a sanitized, culturally purified, and ethnically cleansed version of the religion. But they may not have heard of the Kannada scholar M. M. Kalburgi, whose groundbreaking research on religion and caste earned the wrath of Hindutva and caste purists and led to his murder last August, while several secularist bloggers were killed by Islamic extremists in Bangladesh between 2013 and 2015. In India, 2015 ended with the tribulations of a writer well known in the West, Arundhati Roy, who faced contempt of court over her article protesting the denial of bail to a disabled Delhi University professor, G. N. Saibaba, who had been arrested for alleged links to Maoists. > > But these are only a few of the hundreds of acts of violence directed at writers in India in 2015. It was a sufficiently strange and violent year for the writer Nilanjana S. Roy to ask in a recent BBC article, ?Will 2016 be a turning point for free speech in India? ? So far, 2016 looks to be even darker, if the state-sponsored terrorism against the spoken word at JNU is any indication. > > We began the following conversation in the middle of January 2016, when this question could perhaps be asked with the greater optimism of a fresh new year, not knowing what February would bring. The three participants are key figures in the literary public sphere in India today: Githa Hariharan , novelist, cultural commentator, activist, and founding member of the Indian Writers? Forum ; Arunava Sinha , translator and consulting editor for the independent news portal Scroll.in ; and Anjum Hasan , poet, novelist, and books editor of Caravan magazine. > > > Police observers at the Sarv Bhasha Samvad?vernacular literatures conference?in Dandi, Gujarat, January 30, 2016. Image courtesy Sarv Bhasha Samvad and Indian Writers? Forum > > Saikat Majumdar (SM): We were beginning to get used to the idea that literature doesn?t really matter anymore, that it hardly has any space in the public sphere. Now suddenly it has emerged as threatening, capable of provoking bullets and bloodshed, beyond the good old days of banning and burning books. How does something inconsequential suddenly become so unsettling, even dangerous? > > Arunava Sinha (AS): I suspect it?s less to do with the content of literature and more with the associations that writers have in the public perception in India: with freedom, empathy, a challenge to the orthodoxy, and the ability to communicate. More specifically, of course, the uncorking of the conservative?tending to bigotry?right-wing spirit among many Indians has led to literature being equated with a political position they both fear and loathe. Writers are a reviled tribe for this reason rather than for the specific content of their books. > > I see the violence as a form of desperate muscle-flexing, aided by the complicity and support of the administration and of its apologists , who have painted themselves into an intellectual corner they cannot get out of anymore. It should, ideally, be resisted or ignored. The tragedy is the refusal of the publishing industry?there are exceptions, of course?to stand up to it. Instead, they?re quick to cite business interests and even threats to employees and just back down. > > Of course, this is not entirely new . The threat of violence has made both governments and publishers back down earlier too. But for the first time it has become difficult to distinguish between the administration and the so-called offended. I only hope this will further strengthen the resolve of writers, who now have other media to get their words out in. > > Githa Hariharan (GH): Except for an occasional gloomy moment, I have never felt that literature doesn?t matter anymore, that it has no presence in the public sphere. That has simply not been my experience in over three decades of writing, editing, teaching, and activism. Consider, for instance, two recent events where literature and ideas were discussed in a cynical city like Delhi: the standing-room-only crowd at the launch of the Indian Writers? Forum, or the full house at a discussion on caste, religion, and lived culture at Ambedkar University Delhi. > > But there?s a problem with talking of literature as some monolith, a holy of holies, and certainly in the Indian context. You would have to add qualifying factors?the specific languages or dialects, say, or the genre, the forum, or even the definition of the public sphere. > > Let me take up that last point. If the public sphere is the television show?and sometimes it does appear that public opinion (especially middle-class opinion) is formed by television?then Indian literatures seem ghostlike, except when someone wins an award abroad, or fits in some way into India?s ?triumphal song? of the moment; or, of course, gets into trouble with Hindu or Muslim or Christian self-appointed censors, all of whom feed each other?s stereotypes. But if you extend this public sphere to colleges, for instance, you get a different view. There is a palpable hunger among the young to find a way to connect with the messy goings-on around them. I think of a range of educational spaces, from JNU in Delhi to the University of Hyderabad to the head-covered girls in a small Muslim college in Calicut, Kerala. In the Calicut college, we talked about life choices through literary examples from writers such as Mahasweta Devi . Listening to these girls passionately describing ideas they had elicited from Mahasweta?s stories and applied to their own hemmed-in lives, you had a sense that public debate may live in more modest, less obvious places. > > The more relevant point may be who is setting the terms of debate about living diversity in India. The Hindu nationalists (what we call Hindutva, as opposed to real Hinduism) have attacked diversity by getting [their feelings] ?hurt??by naked bodies , by sex, by a fraudulent Hindu priest in a play , by a rational or satirical take on religion , caste, and community . They set the terms of debate with the object of diminishing all the diverse strands of India, be it debate, literature, or ways of life, to one dominant ?Hindu? narrative?upper-caste and male, preferably. But there is opposition to this. We saw this in the last several months . But the opposition (where the more rational writers are located) is a diverse one. The voices and approaches are so different, it seems difficult to build collective action. But this diversity is also our strength, because it mirrors the reality of India. > > > Students form a human chain on the campus of Jawaharlal Nehru University, Delhi, in February 2016. Photograph by Sujatro Ghosh / Indian Writers? Forum > > Anjum Hasan (AH): Writing and publishing, and talking about writing and publishing, over the past couple of decades, I?ve felt two things. Both are part of the current, what Virginia Woolf might have called the ?murmur,? audible behind the everyday. > > One is the murmur of the market, and that has amplified in this time as the big publishing corporations have set up house here, and as the English-speaking middle class, increasingly cut off from the languages of their parents and the kinds of progressive literature that generation might have read, acquaints itself with a younger, often more functional, definitely less discomfiting writing in which they might recognize themselves. The market has certainly created one model of literary relevance, a model new to this country, and yet one we?ve embraced as ineluctable. > > The other murmur, building up softly for some time behind the louder effusions of the market, but much more strident since the right-wing government?s coming to power in 2014, is the expression of moral outrage. Enough books have been banned and writers attacked in the recent past for us to start asking ourselves, why are the values implicit in literary writing?ambiguity and open-endedness but also plain truth-telling?becoming so hard to take? Between the economic fanaticism of the last 25 years and the religious and ethnic fanaticism that has accompanied it, the idea of literature as a space one inhabits, a mode of feeling and being, seems to have gone out of the window. If the market created the idea of the book as just a product, then that product is now just an expression of an opinion. If I don?t agree with the opinion in question, I can file a criminal suit against its author ?the law allows for this?physically attack, and, lately, even murder her . > > SM: As a child, U. R. Ananthamurthy conducted the experiment of urinating on idols. An experiment that gave him sleepless nights. The noted Kannada scholar M. M. Kalburgi , assassinated in 2015, discussed Ananthamurthy?s so-called experiment extensively. Such experimentation with the conventions of Hinduism contributed to the reputations of both Ananthamurthy and Kalburgi as ?rationalists,? an epithet that sits uneasily on them. Aesthetically speaking, though, polytheism is wonderful, no? Both Hellenism and Hinduism have inspired some of the finest poetry in human history; Wendy Doniger?s view of Hinduism would seem to support this view. So, do we really have a quarrel between religion and literature today, or is it something else? > > GH: There?s no quarrel between religion and literature that I can see. The quarrel between religion and anything seems to come out of a conflation of religion with ritual, or convention, or the religious institution. Most of all, the conflict arises from the use of religion for exclusionary politics . But I am more interested in the first part of your question, about the ?rationalist voice.? There are, of course, rationalists in India, as elsewhere, who see all religion?or, to be precise, rituals loosely called religious practice?as superstition. But there is another complex stream of rationalism. > > Ultimately, a rich literary life?or a richly involved citizen?s life?has to be connected with the great churning that is going on in India. > > Let?s move to real life and real people in India. Narendra Dabholkar , a doctor and social activist from Maharashtra State, led an organization to eradicate superstition. But his take was that ritual was fine if you want to practice it; your ritual should just be antidiscriminatory, and it should not harm anyone or anything. For example, pray to Ganesh if you like, but don?t immerse Ganesh idols in lakes, rivers, and the sea, because this harms the environment. To understand the ?antidiscriminatory? ritual, we have to remember that Dabholkar was part of the movement against caste-based inequalities, and violence against Dalits (the former ?untouchables?). Both causes earned him angry critics, especially from the right wing. He was killed on August 20, 2013, probably by some small right-wing group?these groups spring up, splinter, and work exactly like small terrorist groups anywhere. Four days after he was killed?his daughter lit the funeral pyre, a powerful gesture in a patriarchal society?the state government approved the Anti-Superstition and Black Magic Ordinance that Dabholkar had campaigned hard for. Then there was Govind Pansare , a communist, who was also involved in movements for social change. His ?crime? was to debunk the myths built by Hindu chauvinists around historical figures they were using to build a canon, the warrior Shivaji , for instance. Pansare was also killed. > > Both Dabholkar and Pansare were atheists, but still they complicate the black-and-white idea of a ?rationalist.? Kalburgi and Ananthamurthy, strictly speaking, cannot be called rationalists; but they add dimensions to the critique of rules and conventions that Dabholkar and Pansare made. Neither Ananthamurthy nor Kalburgi ever suggested that it was fine to urinate on idols. Kalburgi, who referred to Ananthamurthy?s anecdote, was associated with at least two mattas (Hindu religious centers) in Karnataka State. But he was a scholar, and his work included study of the 12th-century reformer Basava, who was critical of caste division. Basava?s followers were, over time, absorbed as a separate caste called the Lingayats. Probing this irony, and stating that Lingayats are not Hindus, is what got Kalburgi into trouble with this caste group, which is now politically powerful and close to the Hindu right. Kalburgi was also shot. > > As for Ananthamurthy: as a child, he conducted an experiment. He was a child learning the world, complete with its rules and conventions. Only experiment teaches which rules cannot be transgressed?such as touching fire; and which rules are merely conventions?such as not urinating on idols. Which of us has not conducted a childish little experiment of our own to find out which rules need not be taken seriously? This is actually science, not ?rationalism?; it is the testing of a hypothesis. > > All four men used intelligence and imagination to criticize the establishment; but they did it in a range of ways: activism on the ground, using science, or reason, or scholarly work, or literature. And all four posed a question that responds to yours, Saikat, with a counterquestion: can we live a rich literary life, practice customary ritual, conduct some fundamental experiments in the real world, without exclusionary ritual, but with rational discourse? > > > Huchangi Prasad speaking during a panel discussion at Ambedkar University Delhi on January 20, 2016. Photograph courtesy Indian Writers? Forum > > AS: Religion is the identity around which aggressive mobs of the mind are constructing themselves. So, naturally, religion is their prism of ?hurt feelings.? Obviously these mobs are not looking for nuanced readings or are even sensitive to the ways in which religious epics and philosophies have been mined. > > AH: Hinduism, or the cultural traditions retrospectively gathered under that umbrella, has always been extraordinarily ecumenical. Think of the Charvak philosophers of ancient India, who could reject the Vedas without being considered heretics. Our religious epics and traditional tales are playful, multipronged, nonlinear?there?s a lot of elbow room in there for a literary imagination. > > But I think what we have on our hands is an attrition of, in Githa?s phrase, the ?rich literary life,? and of freethinking and irreverence. None of these qualities have required antipathy to spiritual feeling. Our medieval poets?Kabir , Basava , Mira ?were literary artists and tireless social critics but also believers. > > However, there?s another, related strain in our literary heritage, which is the one Ananthamurthy and Kalburgi represent. The first half of the 20th century belonged to writers across languages?from Premchand to Tagore ?who start to ask, what does it mean to be a free person in this society? The social life of ordinary people starts to matter, individual feelings start to matter, and literature is tasked with taking up a modern consciousness. > > These influences are still with us but thinning out. What?s growing is a terrible insecurity. Could it be caused by exposure to the globalized world, which has given us the chance to make more money than ever before but also divided us against ourselves? We seem to be wondering who we really are, culturally, and this uncertainty expresses itself as a hollow aggrandizement?a recourse to orthodoxy, and a silencing of the alternative view, enforced through violence. > > SM: I want to bring up the counterquestion that Githa raises in her response: can we indeed live a rich literary life, practice customary ritual, conduct some fundamental experiments in the real world, without exclusionary ritual, but with rational discourse? Have these activities become mutually incompatible in the current reality of India? Can you discuss some philosophical measures?and some practical ones?that we might take in order to make this compatibility real and sustainable? > > AH: Philosophically we?ve got to direct the debate away from others and towards ourselves?I?m with Yeats in believing that ?We make out of the quarrel with others, rhetoric, but out of the quarrel with ourselves, poetry.? We quarrel too little with ourselves. There?s a growing stridency and smugness in public discourse. We cleave to idealizations and either/or positions. Instead it would help to start seeing the national project, as much as ourselves, as a work in progress. In a country driven by so many competing interests and such a profusion of minority communities and practices, we have to drop this false political hope of perfection or primacy, and turn to the everyday adjustments and negotiations that have sustained us in the past. Practically, literature might yield a few insights. I do think Indian literature of the last one hundred years has something vital to offer us if we can move beyond nationalistic assertions about its worth. If we look hard enough, it might just offer us a way to live in this society?with irony, moderate hope, and tolerance of difference. > > AS: It?s not only difficult but also unethical in the current climate not to take a definitive position in the various continuums linking the extremes?on freedom of expression, on freethinking, on nationalism and humanism, on the richness and anxieties of divergence and the comfort of uniformity. Silence is abetment in this situation. Taking and expressing a position will mean reexamining our own principles, which have often slipped into bed with what is referred to as pragmatism. This is as specifically true of the literary?or artistic?life as of life in general. I suspect that, done honestly, this will lead to an inner harmony within every individual, a coming out of the closet of ambiguity, one way or the other, and seeing oneself in the light of clarity. What we read, what we write, and how we engage with the world should then be better integrated with one another. > > GH: The ideas I grapple with as a writer, a teacher, a mother, and a citizen all come together for me when I imagine the rich thinking life, a rich life of action. Our multiple identities are constantly in negotiation in India. This is a useful reality, because it teaches us a tactic to survive, maybe even flourish. Asserting this multiplicity in our day-to-day lives in the written text, or the classroom, or the court, or the streets: this is one logical strategy in the Indian context. Extending our own little ?diverse Indias? is another. We have access today to other people?s stories in a way we have not had before. So if I talk to, or read, writers like Bama , Huchangi Prasad , or Perumal Murugan , who have faced either caste discrimination or intimidation, my literary life expands, becomes more inclusive of other Indian experiences. Ultimately, a rich literary life?or a richly involved citizen?s life?has to be connected with the great churning that is going on in this country: in our villages and small towns, on our university campuses; challenging caste, the suppression of dissent, the erosion of institutions built at considerable human cost. We don?t live meaningful lives, or thoughtful lives, or worthwhile lives in a vacuum. We live these lives someplace, a real place we love, criticize, want to change but never let go. We call this place home. I am only prepared to debate what this home?this India?is and should be. I refuse to be told what it is, how I should live in it, by people who want a ?pure? India that leaves out most of its people. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: 420c151a-e77c-4d46-aa79-c33d8f06c9d6.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 73756 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: 4e573fd9-23e0-4858-b47e-03e55bcedf17.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 119899 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: 190d86f0-0da2-4efe-9128-1a14df3d5849.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 84320 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: e2b07c34-ba1f-4a1b-abae-65f492dc9151.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 50377 bytes Desc: not available URL: From lmfosse at getmail.no Thu Mar 17 17:30:48 2016 From: lmfosse at getmail.no (Lars Martin Fosse) Date: Thu, 17 Mar 16 18:30:48 +0100 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Publishing contracts In-Reply-To: <56EA2373.8090902@indica-et-buddhica.org> Message-ID: <56EAE9C8.4090501@getmail.no> I would be very careful about signing such contracts. There is a trend in business these days to push liability and economic responsibility as far down the ladder as possible. Working as a translator, I regularly get served contracts that in principle could ruin me. Never sign such contracts. Never make yourself responsible for more than an amount of money you know you can handle. Don't operate on trust - be smart, check with a lawyer or find some other publishing solution. LM Den 17.03.2016 04:24, skrev Richard Mahoney | Indica et Buddhica: > Dear Will, > > On 2016-03-17 14:57, Will Sweetman wrote: >> In the last few months I've been asked to sign two contracts with >> Indian publishers which included what seem to me to be very sweeping >> liability statements. > [snip] > >> I think academics too often sign contracts without any negotiation, >> and I'd be very interested to hear (whether on or off list) whether >> others have been successful in getting contracts amended. >> >> Best wishes >> >> Will > I'd say it would be prudent to have such contracts reviewed by > commercial solicitors with international experience and perhaps also by > a firm of patent attorneys. Cost is an issue but most firms would be > willing to have a chat to give you a sense of what you and your > colleagues might be up for. `Frankenstein' contracts are not unknown. > > > Best, Richard > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) -- Dr.art. Lars Martin Fosse Haugerudvn. 76 0674 Oslo Norway Tel: +47 22321219 Mobile: +47 90919145 E-mail: lmfosse at getmail.no -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From e.demichelis at ymail.com Thu Mar 17 19:14:40 2016 From: e.demichelis at ymail.com (Elizabeth De Michelis) Date: Thu, 17 Mar 16 19:14:40 +0000 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Publishing contracts In-Reply-To: <56EAE9C8.4090501@getmail.no> Message-ID: <1865455421.806429.1458242080371.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Dear Will and All, this is a topic that far too often gets overlooked by very clever but business-naive academics. Getting legal counsel is indeed an excellent idea, but can itself be a costly, unpleasant and time consuming task. There is, however, at least in the UK, an elegant and inexpensive way around this. That is, one can join the 'writers' union', that is the Society of Authors ( http://societyofauthors.org ). As their tagline states: "An annual subscription (?102 or ?73 if you're under 35) entitles you to unlimited advice on all aspects of the writing profession." And this is indeed the case. They have tons of useful materials that are available for free to members, they run workshops on specific topics, keep abreast of important development in the field (for example they got fully involved on behalf of their members in the GoogleBooks commercial discussions and transactions), they have specialists groups that take care of specific angles (academics, translators, medical writers...), they give grants and support to young authors and to authors in need etc etc. They are always very well informed, up to date, and available for consultation. Importantly, their services include legal advice provided by resident lawyers. In my experience it's dispensed virtually by return (I don't think I ever waited more than 24-48 hrs) by competent professionals that specialise in the field, keep up to date, and deal with the same kind of queries day-in, day-out. What's more, if you subscribe to the SoA, you also automatically (and FOC) become a member of the Authors' licensing and collecting Society (?http://alcs.co.uk/? ) which distrubutes royalties from such arcane sources as library photocopying, 'registered' downloads and I'm not sure what else, but I know that most years my ALCS royalties cover my SoA membership fees. It's just a win-win situation and I always enthusiatically recommend joining the SoA whenever I get the chance. Do have a look at their website to see all the things they do. Now for non-UK based writers, I am not sure if joining the SoA is an option - it may be, perhaps provided they write in English? And I expect there would be similar bodies in other countries that do similar work - the SoA itself may know more about this. I also want to register my opinion on how contracts for writers are going: in two words, very badly! Along the lines of what Lars pointed out, we are expected to do all the work, take all responsibilities, pay all the costs, and hand over all possible forms of copyright (even those that do not exist as yet!!) and translation rights, worldwide, up to the time of our death and beyond. I think many academics sign these documents without really giving them much importance, which contributes to the problem as publishers get away with murder. I personally think that, at least for academic publishing, the way forward is Open Access publications, and much is happening along these lines as most of you will be aware. But if and when we do want or need to sign old fashioned type contracts, we should change them to our benefit and protect our rights as much as possible, and this cannot be done without good legal counsel. Apologies for the tirade, I am quite passionate about the subject, which I have been following, on and off, for many years. Greetings to all, Elizabeth De MichelisIndependent scholarhttp://modernyogaresearch.org/ http://modernyogaresearch.org/people/a-m/dr-elizabeth-de-michelis/ On Thursday, 17 March 2016, 18:32, Lars Martin Fosse wrote: I would be very careful about signing such contracts. There is a trend in business these days to push liability and economic responsibility as far down the ladder as possible. Working as a translator, I regularly get served contracts that in principle could ruin me. Never sign such contracts. Never make yourself responsible for more than an amount of money you know you can handle. Don't operate on trust - be smart, check with a lawyer or find some other publishing solution. LM Den 17.03.2016 04:24, skrev Richard Mahoney | Indica et Buddhica: Dear Will, On 2016-03-17 14:57, Will Sweetman wrote: In the last few months I've been asked to sign two contracts with Indian publishers which included what seem to me to be very sweeping liability statements. [snip] I think academics too often sign contracts without any negotiation, and I'd be very interested to hear (whether on or off list) whether others have been successful in getting contracts amended. Best wishes Will I'd say it would be prudent to have such contracts reviewed by commercial solicitors with international experience and perhaps also by a firm of patent attorneys. Cost is an issue but most firms would be willing to have a chat to give you a sense of what you and your colleagues might be up for. `Frankenstein' contracts are not unknown. Best, Richard _______________________________________________ INDOLOGY mailing list INDOLOGY at list.indology.info indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) -- Dr.art. Lars Martin Fosse Haugerudvn. 76 0674 Oslo Norway Tel: +47 22321219 Mobile: +47 90919145 E-mail: lmfosse at getmail.no _______________________________________________ INDOLOGY mailing list INDOLOGY at list.indology.info indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From james.hartzell at gmail.com Fri Mar 18 09:28:21 2016 From: james.hartzell at gmail.com (James Hartzell) Date: Fri, 18 Mar 16 14:58:21 +0530 Subject: [INDOLOGY] The Sun as the "21st" Message-ID: Dear Colleagues I?ve come across two references in the Br?hma?as to the Sun as ?the twenty-first? ? ?B 6.7.1.1: ?? It (the plate) is round, for he (the Sun) is round. It has twenty-one knobs, for he is the twenty-first. He wears it with the knobs outside, for the knobs are his (the Sun's) rays, and his rays are outside." (Eggeling 1894:265),? and AB 4.18: "They perform the ceremonies of the Ekavi??a day, which is the equator, dividing the year (into two equal parts). By means of the performance of this day, the gods had raised the Sun up to the heavens. This Ekavi??a day on which the Div?k?rtya mantra (was produced) is preceded by ten days, and followed by ten days, and is in the midst (of both periods). On both sides it is thus put in a Vir??: (the number ten). Being thus put in a Vir?? (in the number ten) on both sides, this (Ekavi??a, i.e. the Sun) becomes not disturbed in his course through these worlds." (Haug 1977:288-289). Does anyone have other references to the Sun as the 21st, and any other explanations for this other than these two Brahmana explanations? Cheers James Hartzell, PhD(2x) Center for Mind/Brain Sciences (CIMeC) The University of Trento, Italy -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From gaiapintucci at gmail.com Fri Mar 18 11:01:16 2016 From: gaiapintucci at gmail.com (Gaia Pintucci) Date: Fri, 18 Mar 16 20:01:16 +0900 Subject: [INDOLOGY] The Sun as the "21st" In-Reply-To: Message-ID: At the first Coffee Break Conference held in 2010 in Rome a talk on "Tri? Sapta and Ekavi??ati in the Vedic Literature" was given by Luca Picardi, here you find the abstract on p. 85 (the proceedings might be available as well): http://asiatica.wikispaces.com/file/view/Abstracts+booklet.pdf Maybe it is of help. Best wishes, Gaia Pintucci, M.A. Universit?t Hamburg (currently Guest Resarch Associate at Kyoto University) Asien-Afrika-Institut Abt. f?r Kultur und Geschichte Indiens und Tibets Doktorandenkolleg Geisteswissenschaften Hamburg (Germany) gaiapintucci at gmail.com On Fri, Mar 18, 2016 at 6:28 PM, James Hartzell wrote: > Dear Colleagues > > I?ve come across two references in the Br?hma?as to the Sun as ?the > twenty-first? ? > > ?B 6.7.1.1: ?? It (the plate) is round, for he (the Sun) is round. It has > twenty-one knobs, for he is the twenty-first. He wears it with the knobs > outside, for the knobs are his (the Sun's) rays, and his rays are outside." > (Eggeling 1894:265),? > and > AB 4.18: "They perform the ceremonies of the Ekavi??a day, which is the > equator, dividing the year (into two equal parts). By means of the > performance of this day, the gods had raised the Sun up to the heavens. > This Ekavi??a day on which the Div?k?rtya mantra (was produced) is preceded > by ten days, and followed by ten days, and is in the midst (of both > periods). On both sides it is thus put in a Vir??: (the number ten). Being > thus put in a Vir?? (in the number ten) on both sides, this (Ekavi??a, i.e. > the Sun) becomes not disturbed in his course through these worlds." (Haug > 1977:288-289). > > Does anyone have other references to the Sun as the 21st, and any other > explanations for this other than these two Brahmana explanations? > > Cheers > > James Hartzell, PhD(2x) > Center for Mind/Brain Sciences (CIMeC) > The University of Trento, Italy > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing > committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or > unsubscribe) > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dipak.d2004 at gmail.com Fri Mar 18 11:07:50 2016 From: dipak.d2004 at gmail.com (Dipak Bhattacharya) Date: Fri, 18 Mar 16 16:37:50 +0530 Subject: [INDOLOGY] The Sun as the "21st" In-Reply-To: Message-ID: 21 is a holy number pertaining, originally, to the twenty-one declensional forms of word --the three-into-seven declensional forms. The matter is not undiscussed. Best DB On Fri, Mar 18, 2016 at 2:58 PM, James Hartzell wrote: > Dear Colleagues > > I?ve come across two references in the Br?hma?as to the Sun as ?the > twenty-first? ? > > ?B 6.7.1.1: ?? It (the plate) is round, for he (the Sun) is round. It has > twenty-one knobs, for he is the twenty-first. He wears it with the knobs > outside, for the knobs are his (the Sun's) rays, and his rays are outside." > (Eggeling 1894:265),? > and > AB 4.18: "They perform the ceremonies of the Ekavi??a day, which is the > equator, dividing the year (into two equal parts). By means of the > performance of this day, the gods had raised the Sun up to the heavens. > This Ekavi??a day on which the Div?k?rtya mantra (was produced) is preceded > by ten days, and followed by ten days, and is in the midst (of both > periods). On both sides it is thus put in a Vir??: (the number ten). Being > thus put in a Vir?? (in the number ten) on both sides, this (Ekavi??a, i.e. > the Sun) becomes not disturbed in his course through these worlds." (Haug > 1977:288-289). > > Does anyone have other references to the Sun as the 21st, and any other > explanations for this other than these two Brahmana explanations? > > Cheers > > James Hartzell, PhD(2x) > Center for Mind/Brain Sciences (CIMeC) > The University of Trento, Italy > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing > committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or > unsubscribe) > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From pcbisschop at googlemail.com Fri Mar 18 12:11:50 2016 From: pcbisschop at googlemail.com (peter bisschop) Date: Fri, 18 Mar 16 13:11:50 +0100 Subject: 11th Leiden Summer School Message-ID: Dear Colleagues, The 11th Leiden Summer School in Languages and Linguistics will be held at Leiden University from Monday 11 until Friday 22 July 2016. The Indological programme will consist of the following four courses: Werner Knobl (Kyoto),* Features of Vedic Poetry* (9.30 - 11.00) Werner Knobl (Kyoto), *The Syntax of Vedic Prose* (11.30 - 13.00) Anjaneya Sarma (Pondicherry), *Sanskrit Grammar: Readings from the Mah?bh??ya* (14.00 - 15.30) Anjaneya Sarma (Pondicherry), *Sanskrit Poetics: Excerpts from the 2nd chapter (Do?aprakara?a) of Mahimabha??ta?s Vyaktiviveka* (16.00 - 17.30) As in previous years, students can make their own programme by selecting and combining courses from this and/or other programmes on offer. For a full description of this year's programme see the Summer School website: http://www.hum.leiden.edu/summerschool/ Kindly share this information with all those who may be interested in the Summer School. With best wishes, Peter Bisschop Leiden University -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From j.jurewicz at uw.edu.pl Fri Mar 18 12:33:52 2016 From: j.jurewicz at uw.edu.pl (Joanna Jurewicz) Date: Fri, 18 Mar 16 13:33:52 +0100 Subject: [INDOLOGY] The Sun as the "21st" In-Reply-To: Message-ID: In the ?gveda this number is often activated via the phrase 'tr?? sapt?'. See Thieme P. 1985. ?The First Verse of the *Tri**?**apt?yam* (AV, ? 1.1 ~ AV, P 1.6) and the Beginnings of Sanskrit Linguistics?. *Journal of the American Oriental Society* 105, 3: 559-565. Best, Joanna --- dr hab. Joanna Jurewicz, prof. UW Katedra Azji Po?udniowej /Chair of South Asia Wydzia? Orientalistyczny / Faculty of Oriental Studies Uniwersytet Warszawski /University of Warsaw ul. Krakowskie Przedmie?cie 26/28 00-927 Warszawa https://uw.academia.edu/JoannaJurewicz 2016-03-18 12:07 GMT+01:00 Dipak Bhattacharya : > 21 is a holy number pertaining, originally, to the twenty-one declensional > forms of word --the three-into-seven declensional forms. The matter is not > undiscussed. > Best > DB > > On Fri, Mar 18, 2016 at 2:58 PM, James Hartzell > wrote: > >> Dear Colleagues >> >> I?ve come across two references in the Br?hma?as to the Sun as ?the >> twenty-first? ? >> >> ?B 6.7.1.1: ?? It (the plate) is round, for he (the Sun) is round. It >> has twenty-one knobs, for he is the twenty-first. He wears it with the >> knobs outside, for the knobs are his (the Sun's) rays, and his rays are >> outside." (Eggeling 1894:265),? >> and >> AB 4.18: "They perform the ceremonies of the Ekavi??a day, which is the >> equator, dividing the year (into two equal parts). By means of the >> performance of this day, the gods had raised the Sun up to the heavens. >> This Ekavi??a day on which the Div?k?rtya mantra (was produced) is preceded >> by ten days, and followed by ten days, and is in the midst (of both >> periods). On both sides it is thus put in a Vir??: (the number ten). Being >> thus put in a Vir?? (in the number ten) on both sides, this (Ekavi??a, i.e. >> the Sun) becomes not disturbed in his course through these worlds." (Haug >> 1977:288-289). >> >> Does anyone have other references to the Sun as the 21st, and any other >> explanations for this other than these two Brahmana explanations? >> >> Cheers >> >> James Hartzell, PhD(2x) >> Center for Mind/Brain Sciences (CIMeC) >> The University of Trento, Italy >> >> _______________________________________________ >> INDOLOGY mailing list >> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info >> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing >> committee) >> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or >> unsubscribe) >> > > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing > committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or > unsubscribe) > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From karp at uw.edu.pl Fri Mar 18 12:42:29 2016 From: karp at uw.edu.pl (Artur Karp) Date: Fri, 18 Mar 16 13:42:29 +0100 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Revolving wheel in ancient Indian literature Message-ID: Dear List, Mahabharata I, 29. 2-5 and Sumangalavilasini (Buddhaghosa's commentary to Mahaparinibbana-sutta) VI, 26 contain images of a revolving wheel (with 360? spokes), guarded by figures with swords in hands, and by two serpents. Vi?vakarma/Vissakamma is mentioned as the wheel's constructor. Is that - or similar - image present somewhere else in the ancient Indian literature? Thanks in advance for your comments - Artur Karp South Asian Studies Deptt (emeritus), University of Warsaw, Poland -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From karp at uw.edu.pl Fri Mar 18 12:56:41 2016 From: karp at uw.edu.pl (Artur Karp) Date: Fri, 18 Mar 16 13:56:41 +0100 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Revolving wheel in ancient Indian literature In-Reply-To: Message-ID: In the Mahabharata the wheel contains (in its axle) amrita/soma. In the Sumnagalavilasini it contains the relics of the Buddha. Artur K. 2016-03-18 13:42 GMT+01:00 Artur Karp : > Dear List, > > Mahabharata I, 29. 2-5 and Sumangalavilasini (Buddhaghosa's commentary to > Mahaparinibbana-sutta) VI, 26 contain images of a revolving wheel (with > 360? spokes), guarded by figures with swords in hands, and by two serpents. > Vi?vakarma/Vissakamma is mentioned as the wheel's constructor. > > Is that - or similar - image present somewhere else in the ancient Indian > literature? > > Thanks in advance for your comments - > > Artur Karp > > South Asian Studies Deptt (emeritus), University of Warsaw, Poland > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mmdesh at umich.edu Fri Mar 18 13:04:26 2016 From: mmdesh at umich.edu (Madhav Deshpande) Date: Fri, 18 Mar 16 09:04:26 -0400 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Revolving wheel in ancient Indian literature In-Reply-To: Message-ID: The idea of a rotating wheel of time goes all the way back to the Rigveda: dv?da??ra? na hi taj jar?ya vavarti cakram pari dy?m ?tasya (don't have the textual ref at hand). The idea of the spokes of the wheel going up and down is referred to in Sanskrit lit in many places with expressions like cakra-nemi-krama and cakr?rapa?kti. Madhav Deshpande On Fri, Mar 18, 2016 at 8:42 AM, Artur Karp wrote: > Dear List, > > Mahabharata I, 29. 2-5 and Sumangalavilasini (Buddhaghosa's commentary to > Mahaparinibbana-sutta) VI, 26 contain images of a revolving wheel (with > 360? spokes), guarded by figures with swords in hands, and by two serpents. > Vi?vakarma/Vissakamma is mentioned as the wheel's constructor. > > Is that - or similar - image present somewhere else in the ancient Indian > literature? > > Thanks in advance for your comments - > > Artur Karp > > South Asian Studies Deptt (emeritus), University of Warsaw, Poland > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing > committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or > unsubscribe) > -- Madhav M. Deshpande Professor of Sanskrit and Linguistics Department of Asian Languages and Cultures 202 South Thayer Street, Suite 6111 The University of Michigan Ann Arbor, MI 48104-1608, USA -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From gthomgt at gmail.com Fri Mar 18 14:52:30 2016 From: gthomgt at gmail.com (George Thompson) Date: Fri, 18 Mar 16 10:52:30 -0400 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Revolving wheel in ancient Indian literature In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hello all, Madhav's passage is RV 1.164.11. By chance, I've been looking at this hymn today. George Thompson On Fri, Mar 18, 2016 at 9:04 AM, Madhav Deshpande wrote: > The idea of a rotating wheel of time goes all the way back to the Rigveda: > dv?da??ra? na hi taj jar?ya vavarti cakram pari dy?m ?tasya (don't have the > textual ref at hand). The idea of the spokes of the wheel going up and > down is referred to in Sanskrit lit in many places with expressions like > cakra-nemi-krama and cakr?rapa?kti. > > Madhav Deshpande > > On Fri, Mar 18, 2016 at 8:42 AM, Artur Karp wrote: > >> Dear List, >> >> Mahabharata I, 29. 2-5 and Sumangalavilasini (Buddhaghosa's commentary to >> Mahaparinibbana-sutta) VI, 26 contain images of a revolving wheel (with >> 360? spokes), guarded by figures with swords in hands, and by two serpents. >> Vi?vakarma/Vissakamma is mentioned as the wheel's constructor. >> >> Is that - or similar - image present somewhere else in the ancient Indian >> literature? >> >> Thanks in advance for your comments - >> >> Artur Karp >> >> South Asian Studies Deptt (emeritus), University of Warsaw, Poland >> >> _______________________________________________ >> INDOLOGY mailing list >> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info >> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing >> committee) >> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or >> unsubscribe) >> > > > > -- > Madhav M. Deshpande > Professor of Sanskrit and Linguistics > Department of Asian Languages and Cultures > 202 South Thayer Street, Suite 6111 > The University of Michigan > Ann Arbor, MI 48104-1608, USA > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing > committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or > unsubscribe) > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dipak.d2004 at gmail.com Fri Mar 18 16:39:58 2016 From: dipak.d2004 at gmail.com (Dipak Bhattacharya) Date: Fri, 18 Mar 16 22:09:58 +0530 Subject: [INDOLOGY] The Sun as the "21st" In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Dear Colleague, With due respect to Professor Thieme, a different explanation might not be uncalled for. Perhaps we talked over this sometime adducing information on publications. Thieme's memory is indelible - a rare combinartion of scholarship and humility. So I do not like to further extend my replies. Best wishes Dipak Bhattacharya On Fri, Mar 18, 2016 at 6:03 PM, Joanna Jurewicz wrote: > In the ?gveda this number is often activated via the phrase 'tr?? sapt?'. > See Thieme P. 1985. ?The First Verse of the *Tri**?**apt?yam* (AV, ? 1.1 > ~ AV, P 1.6) and the Beginnings of Sanskrit Linguistics?. *Journal of the > American Oriental Society* 105, 3: 559-565. > Best, > Joanna > > > > --- > dr hab. Joanna Jurewicz, prof. UW > Katedra Azji Po?udniowej /Chair of South Asia > Wydzia? Orientalistyczny / Faculty of Oriental Studies > Uniwersytet Warszawski /University of Warsaw > ul. Krakowskie Przedmie?cie 26/28 > 00-927 Warszawa > https://uw.academia.edu/JoannaJurewicz > > 2016-03-18 12:07 GMT+01:00 Dipak Bhattacharya : > >> 21 is a holy number pertaining, originally, to the twenty-one >> declensional forms of word --the three-into-seven declensional forms. The >> matter is not undiscussed. >> Best >> DB >> >> On Fri, Mar 18, 2016 at 2:58 PM, James Hartzell > > wrote: >> >>> Dear Colleagues >>> >>> I?ve come across two references in the Br?hma?as to the Sun as ?the >>> twenty-first? ? >>> >>> ?B 6.7.1.1: ?? It (the plate) is round, for he (the Sun) is round. It >>> has twenty-one knobs, for he is the twenty-first. He wears it with the >>> knobs outside, for the knobs are his (the Sun's) rays, and his rays are >>> outside." (Eggeling 1894:265),? >>> and >>> AB 4.18: "They perform the ceremonies of the Ekavi??a day, which is the >>> equator, dividing the year (into two equal parts). By means of the >>> performance of this day, the gods had raised the Sun up to the heavens. >>> This Ekavi??a day on which the Div?k?rtya mantra (was produced) is preceded >>> by ten days, and followed by ten days, and is in the midst (of both >>> periods). On both sides it is thus put in a Vir??: (the number ten). Being >>> thus put in a Vir?? (in the number ten) on both sides, this (Ekavi??a, i.e. >>> the Sun) becomes not disturbed in his course through these worlds." (Haug >>> 1977:288-289). >>> >>> Does anyone have other references to the Sun as the 21st, and any other >>> explanations for this other than these two Brahmana explanations? >>> >>> Cheers >>> >>> James Hartzell, PhD(2x) >>> Center for Mind/Brain Sciences (CIMeC) >>> The University of Trento, Italy >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> INDOLOGY mailing list >>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info >>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing >>> committee) >>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options >>> or unsubscribe) >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> INDOLOGY mailing list >> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info >> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing >> committee) >> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or >> unsubscribe) >> > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From wujastyk at gmail.com Fri Mar 18 19:17:43 2016 From: wujastyk at gmail.com (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Fri, 18 Mar 16 13:17:43 -0600 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Revolving wheel in ancient Indian literature In-Reply-To: Message-ID: The reference to 360 spokes is a sexagesimal number expressed in decimal. This certainly points to the mathematical traditions of Mesopotamia. -- Professor Dominik Wujastyk* Singhmar Chair in Classical Indian Society and Polity Department of History and Classics University of Alberta, Canada On 18 March 2016 at 08:52, George Thompson wrote: > Hello all, > > Madhav's passage is RV 1.164.11. By chance, I've been looking at this > hymn today. > > George Thompson > > On Fri, Mar 18, 2016 at 9:04 AM, Madhav Deshpande > wrote: > >> The idea of a rotating wheel of time goes all the way back to the >> Rigveda: dv?da??ra? na hi taj jar?ya vavarti cakram pari dy?m ?tasya (don't >> have the textual ref at hand). The idea of the spokes of the wheel going >> up and down is referred to in Sanskrit lit in many places with expressions >> like cakra-nemi-krama and cakr?rapa?kti. >> >> Madhav Deshpande >> >> On Fri, Mar 18, 2016 at 8:42 AM, Artur Karp wrote: >> >>> Dear List, >>> >>> Mahabharata I, 29. 2-5 and Sumangalavilasini (Buddhaghosa's commentary >>> to Mahaparinibbana-sutta) VI, 26 contain images of a revolving wheel >>> (with 360? spokes), guarded by figures with swords in hands, and by two >>> serpents. Vi?vakarma/Vissakamma is mentioned as the wheel's constructor. >>> >>> Is that - or similar - image present somewhere else in the ancient >>> Indian literature? >>> >>> Thanks in advance for your comments - >>> >>> Artur Karp >>> >>> South Asian Studies Deptt (emeritus), University of Warsaw, Poland >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> INDOLOGY mailing list >>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info >>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing >>> committee) >>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options >>> or unsubscribe) >>> >> >> >> >> -- >> Madhav M. Deshpande >> Professor of Sanskrit and Linguistics >> Department of Asian Languages and Cultures >> 202 South Thayer Street, Suite 6111 >> The University of Michigan >> Ann Arbor, MI 48104-1608, USA >> >> _______________________________________________ >> INDOLOGY mailing list >> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info >> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing >> committee) >> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or >> unsubscribe) >> > > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing > committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or > unsubscribe) > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From hr at ivs.edu Fri Mar 18 19:25:17 2016 From: hr at ivs.edu (Howard Resnick) Date: Fri, 18 Mar 16 14:25:17 -0500 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Revolving wheel in ancient Indian literature In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <33A9CB03-8332-4EC4-93D9-14CB75DCF86D@ivs.edu> The Bhagavata-purana 4.20.13-14 speaks symbolically of time as 360 white Gandharvas (the days of the year) and 360 black Gandharvis (the nights), who all plunder the city of Puranjana. > On Mar 18, 2016, at 2:17 PM, Dominik Wujastyk wrote: > > The reference to 360 spokes is a sexagesimal number expressed in decimal. This certainly points to the mathematical traditions of Mesopotamia. > > -- > Professor Dominik Wujastyk* > Singhmar Chair in Classical Indian Society and Polity > Department of History and Classics > University of Alberta, Canada > > On 18 March 2016 at 08:52, George Thompson > wrote: > Hello all, > > Madhav's passage is RV 1.164.11. By chance, I've been looking at this hymn today. > > George Thompson > > On Fri, Mar 18, 2016 at 9:04 AM, Madhav Deshpande > wrote: > The idea of a rotating wheel of time goes all the way back to the Rigveda: dv?da??ra? na hi taj jar?ya vavarti cakram pari dy?m ?tasya (don't have the textual ref at hand). The idea of the spokes of the wheel going up and down is referred to in Sanskrit lit in many places with expressions like cakra-nemi-krama and cakr?rapa?kti. > > Madhav Deshpande > > On Fri, Mar 18, 2016 at 8:42 AM, Artur Karp > wrote: > Dear List, > > Mahabharata I, 29. 2-5 and Sumangalavilasini (Buddhaghosa's commentary to Mahaparinibbana-sutta) VI, 26 contain images of a revolving wheel (with 360? spokes), guarded by figures with swords in hands, and by two serpents. Vi?vakarma/Vissakamma is mentioned as the wheel's constructor. > > Is that - or similar - image present somewhere else in the ancient Indian literature? > > Thanks in advance for your comments - > > Artur Karp > > South Asian Studies Deptt (emeritus), University of Warsaw, Poland > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) > > > > -- > Madhav M. Deshpande > Professor of Sanskrit and Linguistics > Department of Asian Languages and Cultures > 202 South Thayer Street, Suite 6111 > The University of Michigan > Ann Arbor, MI 48104-1608, USA > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) > > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From hr at ivs.edu Fri Mar 18 19:26:36 2016 From: hr at ivs.edu (Howard Resnick) Date: Fri, 18 Mar 16 14:26:36 -0500 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Revolving wheel in ancient Indian literature In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Sorry, here are the correct verse numbers: The Bhagavata-purana 4.27.13-14 speaks symbolically of time as 360 white Gandharvas (the days of the year) and 360 black Gandharvis (the nights), who all plunder the city of Puranjana. > On Mar 18, 2016, at 2:17 PM, Dominik Wujastyk > wrote: > > The reference to 360 spokes is a sexagesimal number expressed in decimal. This certainly points to the mathematical traditions of Mesopotamia. > > -- > Professor Dominik Wujastyk* > Singhmar Chair in Classical Indian Society and Polity > Department of History and Classics > University of Alberta, Canada > > On 18 March 2016 at 08:52, George Thompson > wrote: > Hello all, > > Madhav's passage is RV 1.164.11. By chance, I've been looking at this hymn today. > > George Thompson > > On Fri, Mar 18, 2016 at 9:04 AM, Madhav Deshpande > wrote: > The idea of a rotating wheel of time goes all the way back to the Rigveda: dv?da??ra? na hi taj jar?ya vavarti cakram pari dy?m ?tasya (don't have the textual ref at hand). The idea of the spokes of the wheel going up and down is referred to in Sanskrit lit in many places with expressions like cakra-nemi-krama and cakr?rapa?kti. > > Madhav Deshpande > > On Fri, Mar 18, 2016 at 8:42 AM, Artur Karp > wrote: > Dear List, > > Mahabharata I, 29. 2-5 and Sumangalavilasini (Buddhaghosa's commentary to Mahaparinibbana-sutta) VI, 26 contain images of a revolving wheel (with 360? spokes), guarded by figures with swords in hands, and by two serpents. Vi?vakarma/Vissakamma is mentioned as the wheel's constructor. > > Is that - or similar - image present somewhere else in the ancient Indian literature? > > Thanks in advance for your comments - > > Artur Karp > > South Asian Studies Deptt (emeritus), University of Warsaw, Poland > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) > > > > -- > Madhav M. Deshpande > Professor of Sanskrit and Linguistics > Department of Asian Languages and Cultures > 202 South Thayer Street, Suite 6111 > The University of Michigan > Ann Arbor, MI 48104-1608, USA > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) > > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From gthomgt at gmail.com Fri Mar 18 21:24:05 2016 From: gthomgt at gmail.com (George Thompson) Date: Fri, 18 Mar 16 17:24:05 -0400 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Revolving wheel in ancient Indian literature In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Yes, Dominik. I agree. The Dirghatamas cycle is late RV, though. George On Fri, Mar 18, 2016 at 3:17 PM, Dominik Wujastyk wrote: > The reference to 360 spokes is a sexagesimal number expressed in decimal. > This certainly points to the mathematical traditions of Mesopotamia. > > -- > Professor Dominik Wujastyk* > Singhmar Chair in Classical Indian Society and Polity > Department of History and Classics > > University of Alberta, Canada > > On 18 March 2016 at 08:52, George Thompson wrote: > >> Hello all, >> >> Madhav's passage is RV 1.164.11. By chance, I've been looking at this >> hymn today. >> >> George Thompson >> >> On Fri, Mar 18, 2016 at 9:04 AM, Madhav Deshpande >> wrote: >> >>> The idea of a rotating wheel of time goes all the way back to the >>> Rigveda: dv?da??ra? na hi taj jar?ya vavarti cakram pari dy?m ?tasya (don't >>> have the textual ref at hand). The idea of the spokes of the wheel going >>> up and down is referred to in Sanskrit lit in many places with expressions >>> like cakra-nemi-krama and cakr?rapa?kti. >>> >>> Madhav Deshpande >>> >>> On Fri, Mar 18, 2016 at 8:42 AM, Artur Karp wrote: >>> >>>> Dear List, >>>> >>>> Mahabharata I, 29. 2-5 and Sumangalavilasini (Buddhaghosa's commentary >>>> to Mahaparinibbana-sutta) VI, 26 contain images of a revolving wheel >>>> (with 360? spokes), guarded by figures with swords in hands, and by two >>>> serpents. Vi?vakarma/Vissakamma is mentioned as the wheel's constructor. >>>> >>>> Is that - or similar - image present somewhere else in the ancient >>>> Indian literature? >>>> >>>> Thanks in advance for your comments - >>>> >>>> Artur Karp >>>> >>>> South Asian Studies Deptt (emeritus), University of Warsaw, Poland >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> INDOLOGY mailing list >>>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info >>>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing >>>> committee) >>>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options >>>> or unsubscribe) >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Madhav M. Deshpande >>> Professor of Sanskrit and Linguistics >>> Department of Asian Languages and Cultures >>> 202 South Thayer Street, Suite 6111 >>> The University of Michigan >>> Ann Arbor, MI 48104-1608, USA >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> INDOLOGY mailing list >>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info >>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing >>> committee) >>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options >>> or unsubscribe) >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> INDOLOGY mailing list >> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info >> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing >> committee) >> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or >> unsubscribe) >> > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From reimann at berkeley.edu Fri Mar 18 22:37:19 2016 From: reimann at berkeley.edu (Luis Gonzalez-Reimann) Date: Fri, 18 Mar 16 15:37:19 -0700 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Revolving wheel in ancient Indian literature In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <56EC831F.1090800@berkeley.edu> That's true Dominik, but we must consider that any tradition that counts the days in a year ends up with 360 days, a good divisible number, plus 5. It happens in Mesoamerican calendars, where those "extra" days are considered negative or empty. They are called /nemontemi/ in Nahuatl. So a symbolical year of 360 plus days doesn't automatically mean that its origin is Mesopotamian. 360 can easily be divided by 12 to give 12 months, and this can be correlated with the 27/28 days in a lunar cycle/month. It is not a perfect fit, which is why most calendars end up being soli-lunar, with either extra months or days. But 360 is a good symbolical number in a decimal system in addition to its importance as a sexagesimal one. Luis _____ On 3/18/2016 12:17 PM, Dominik Wujastyk wrote: > The reference to 360 spokes is a sexagesimal number expressed in > decimal. This certainly points to the mathematical traditions of > Mesopotamia. > > -- > Professor Dominik Wujastyk* > Singhmar Chair in Classical Indian Society and Polity > Department of History and Classics > > University of Alberta, Canada > > On 18 March 2016 at 08:52, George Thompson > wrote: > > Hello all, > > Madhav's passage is RV 1.164.11. By chance, I've been looking at > this hymn today. > > George Thompson > > On Fri, Mar 18, 2016 at 9:04 AM, Madhav Deshpande > > wrote: > > The idea of a rotating wheel of time goes all the way back to > the Rigveda: dv?da??ra? na hi taj jar?ya vavarti cakram pari > dy?m ?tasya (don't have the textual ref at hand). The idea of > the spokes of the wheel going up and down is referred to in > Sanskrit lit in many places with expressions like > cakra-nemi-krama and cakr?rapa?kti. > > Madhav Deshpande > > On Fri, Mar 18, 2016 at 8:42 AM, Artur Karp > wrote: > > Dear List, > > Mahabharata I, 29. 2-5 and Sumangalavilasini > (Buddhaghosa's commentary to Mahaparinibbana-sutta) VI, > 26 contain images of a revolving wheel (with 360? > spokes), guarded by figures with swords in hands, and by > two serpents. Vi?vakarma/Vissakamma is mentioned as the > wheel's constructor. > > Is that - or similar - image present somewhere else in the > ancient Indian literature? > > Thanks in advance for your comments - > > Artur Karp > > South Asian Studies Deptt (emeritus), University of > Warsaw, Poland > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > > indology-owner at list.indology.info > (messages to > the list's managing committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your > list options or unsubscribe) > > > > > -- > Madhav M. Deshpande > Professor of Sanskrit and Linguistics > Department of Asian Languages and Cultures > 202 South Thayer Street, Suite 6111 > The University of Michigan > Ann Arbor, MI 48104-1608, USA > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info > (messages to the > list's managing committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list > options or unsubscribe) > > > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info > (messages to the list's > managing committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list > options or unsubscribe) > > > > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From reimann at berkeley.edu Fri Mar 18 22:44:04 2016 From: reimann at berkeley.edu (Luis Gonzalez-Reimann) Date: Fri, 18 Mar 16 15:44:04 -0700 Subject: [INDOLOGY] The Sun as the "21st" In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <56EC84B4.1000206@berkeley.edu> Dear James, Although this isn't the subject of your question, I think it is important to consider that the Ekavi??a day in the AB is quite certainly the summer solstice, and not the "equator." Luis _____ On 3/18/2016 2:28 AM, James Hartzell wrote: > Dear Colleagues > > I?ve come across two references in the Br?hma?as to the Sun as ?the > twenty-first? ? > > ?B 6.7.1.1 : ?? It (the plate) is round, for he (the > Sun) is round. It has twenty-one knobs, for he is the twenty-first. He > wears it with the knobs outside, for the knobs are his (the Sun's) > rays, and his rays are outside." (Eggeling 1894:265),? > and > AB 4.18: "They perform the ceremonies of the Ekavi??a day, which is > the equator, dividing the year (into two equal parts). By means of the > performance of this day, the gods had raised the Sun up to the > heavens. This Ekavi??a day on which the Div?k?rtya mantra (was > produced) is preceded by ten days, and followed by ten days, and is in > the midst (of both periods). On both sides it is thus put in a Vir??: > (the number ten). Being thus put in a Vir?? (in the number ten) on > both sides, this (Ekavi??a, i.e. the Sun) becomes not disturbed in his > course through these worlds." (Haug 1977:288-289). > > Does anyone have other references to the Sun as the 21st, and any > other explanations for this other than these two Brahmana explanations? > > Cheers > > James Hartzell, PhD^(2x) > Center for Mind/Brain Sciences (CIMeC) > The University of Trento, Italy > > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jmdelire at ulb.ac.be Fri Mar 18 23:54:25 2016 From: jmdelire at ulb.ac.be (Jean-Michel Delire) Date: Sat, 19 Mar 16 00:54:25 +0100 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Revolving wheel in ancient Indian literature Message-ID: <2980556ec953136a31@wm-srv.ulb.ac.be> I agree about the very common division of the year into 360 days (and nights), plus 5 additive days (sometimes called epagomenoi). It also existed in Ancient Egypt. On the other hand, the 12 months are not the 28 days months, which are sideral months (the moon passes through all the constellations/naksatras in about 27,5 days), but the synodic months during which the moon goes from one relative position to the sun - by instance a full moon - to the next similar position, through last quarter, new moon and first quarter. The synodic duration, of 29,5 days approximately, is much closer to 30 days. This was already known by the Vedanga Jyotisa, although the duration of the year is 366 days in that case. Jean Michel Delire, University of Brussels >That's true Dominik, but we must consider that any tradition that counts >the days in a year ends up with 360 days, a good divisible number, plus >5. It happens in Mesoamerican calendars, where those "extra" days are >considered negative or empty. They are called /nemontemi/ in Nahuatl. > >So a symbolical year of 360 plus days doesn't automatically mean that >its origin is Mesopotamian. 360 can easily be divided by 12 to give 12 >months, and this can be correlated with the 27/28 days in a lunar >cycle/month. It is not a perfect fit, which is why most calendars end up >being soli-lunar, with either extra months or days. But 360 is a good >symbolical number in a decimal system in addition to its importance as a >sexagesimal one. > >Luis >_____ > >On 3/18/2016 12:17 PM, Dominik Wujastyk wrote: >> The reference to 360 spokes is a sexagesimal number expressed in >> decimal. This certainly points to the mathematical traditions of >> Mesopotamia. >> >> -- >> Professor Dominik Wujastyk* >> Singhmar Chair in Classical Indian Society and Polity >> Department of History and Classics >> >> University of Alberta, Canada >> >> On 18 March 2016 at 08:52, George Thompson > > wrote: >> >> Hello all, >> >> Madhav's passage is RV 1.164.11. By chance, I've been looking at >> this hymn today. >> >> George Thompson >> >> On Fri, Mar 18, 2016 at 9:04 AM, Madhav Deshpande >> > wrote: >> >> The idea of a rotating wheel of time goes all the way back to >> the Rigveda: dv?da??ra? na hi taj jar?ya vavarti cakram pari >> dy?m ?tasya (don't have the textual ref at hand). The idea of >> the spokes of the wheel going up and down is referred to in >> Sanskrit lit in many places with expressions like >> cakra-nemi-krama and cakr?rapa?kti. >> >> Madhav Deshpande >> >> On Fri, Mar 18, 2016 at 8:42 AM, Artur Karp > > wrote: >> >> Dear List, >> >> Mahabharata I, 29. 2-5 and Sumangalavilasini >> (Buddhaghosa's commentary to Mahaparinibbana-sutta) VI, >> 26 contain images of a revolving wheel (with 360? >> spokes), guarded by figures with swords in hands, and by >> two serpents. Vi?vakarma/Vissakamma is mentioned as the >> wheel's constructor. >> >> Is that - or similar - image present somewhere else in the >> ancient Indian literature? >> >> Thanks in advance for your comments - >> >> Artur Karp >> >> South Asian Studies Deptt (emeritus), University of >> Warsaw, Poland >> >> _______________________________________________ >> INDOLOGY mailing list >> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info >> >> indology-owner at list.indology.info >> (messages to >> the list's managing committee) >> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your >> list options or unsubscribe) >> >> >> >> >> -- >> Madhav M. Deshpande >> Professor of Sanskrit and Linguistics >> Department of Asian Languages and Cultures >> 202 South Thayer Street, Suite 6111 >> The University of Michigan >> Ann Arbor, MI 48104-1608, USA >> >> _______________________________________________ >> INDOLOGY mailing list >> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info >> indology-owner at list.indology.info >> (messages to the >> list's managing committee) >> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list >> options or unsubscribe) >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> INDOLOGY mailing list >> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info >> indology-owner at list.indology.info >> (messages to the list's >> managing committee) >> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list >> options or unsubscribe) >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> INDOLOGY mailing list >> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info >> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) >> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) > > > From bill.m.mak at gmail.com Sat Mar 19 00:48:40 2016 From: bill.m.mak at gmail.com (Bill Mak) Date: Sat, 19 Mar 16 07:48:40 +0700 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Revolving wheel in ancient Indian literature In-Reply-To: <2980556ec953136a31@wm-srv.ulb.ac.be> Message-ID: As far as the number 360 and the months are concerned, it should be noted that there is the idea of s?vanam?sa or "civil month", which is an ideal month consisted of exactly 30 days. Hence, 12 civil months would make up an ideal year of 360 days. This notion is suggested in most older jyoti?a texts, from Veda?gajyoti?a to Yavanaj?taka though not necessarily spelt out explicitly and is not known to be applied in any known calendar in India. Hence, among the uniquely Indian four types of months, one finds beside saura (solar, c. 30.5 days), c?ndra (synodic, c. 29.5 days), n?k?atra (sidereal, c. 27.3 days), but also s?vana (30 days). Kum?raj?va (4th century) in his description of the Indian (Vedic) months gave the values of these four months which are identical to VJ. YJ 79.11 gives definition of s?vanam?sa (tri??addin?? s?vanam?sa) and the lord of the year system in YJ 79.54 suggests also a year consisted of 360 days. Bill Mak -- Bill M. Mak, PhD Associate Professor Institute for Research in Humanities, Kyoto University Yoshidahonmachi, Sakyo-ku, Kyoto, Japan 606-8501 ?606-8501 ?????????? ??????????? email: mak at zinbun.kyoto-u.ac.jp Tel:+81-75-753-6961 Fax:+81-75-753-6903 copies of my publications may be found at: http://www.billmak.com On 2016/03/19, at 6:54, Jean-Michel Delire wrote: > I agree about the very common division of the year into 360 days (and nights), plus 5 additive days (sometimes called epagomenoi). It also existed in Ancient Egypt. On the other hand, the 12 months are not the 28 days months, which are sideral months (the moon passes through all the constellations/naksatras in about 27,5 days), but the synodic months during which the moon goes from one relative position to the sun - by instance a full moon - to the next similar position, through last quarter, new moon and first quarter. The synodic duration, of 29,5 days approximately, is much closer to 30 days. This was already known by the Vedanga Jyotisa, although the duration of the year is 366 days in that case. > > Jean Michel Delire, University of Brussels > > >> That's true Dominik, but we must consider that any tradition that counts >> the days in a year ends up with 360 days, a good divisible number, plus >> 5. It happens in Mesoamerican calendars, where those "extra" days are >> considered negative or empty. They are called /nemontemi/ in Nahuatl. >> >> So a symbolical year of 360 plus days doesn't automatically mean that >> its origin is Mesopotamian. 360 can easily be divided by 12 to give 12 >> months, and this can be correlated with the 27/28 days in a lunar >> cycle/month. It is not a perfect fit, which is why most calendars end up >> being soli-lunar, with either extra months or days. But 360 is a good >> symbolical number in a decimal system in addition to its importance as a >> sexagesimal one. >> >> Luis >> _____ >> >> On 3/18/2016 12:17 PM, Dominik Wujastyk wrote: >>> The reference to 360 spokes is a sexagesimal number expressed in >>> decimal. This certainly points to the mathematical traditions of >>> Mesopotamia. >>> >>> -- >>> Professor Dominik Wujastyk* >>> Singhmar Chair in Classical Indian Society and Polity >>> Department of History and Classics >>> >>> University of Alberta, Canada >>> >>> On 18 March 2016 at 08:52, George Thompson >> > wrote: >>> >>> Hello all, >>> >>> Madhav's passage is RV 1.164.11. By chance, I've been looking at >>> this hymn today. >>> >>> George Thompson >>> >>> On Fri, Mar 18, 2016 at 9:04 AM, Madhav Deshpande >>> > wrote: >>> >>> The idea of a rotating wheel of time goes all the way back to >>> the Rigveda: dv?da??ra? na hi taj jar?ya vavarti cakram pari >>> dy?m ?tasya (don't have the textual ref at hand). The idea of >>> the spokes of the wheel going up and down is referred to in >>> Sanskrit lit in many places with expressions like >>> cakra-nemi-krama and cakr?rapa?kti. >>> >>> Madhav Deshpande >>> >>> On Fri, Mar 18, 2016 at 8:42 AM, Artur Karp >> > wrote: >>> >>> Dear List, >>> >>> Mahabharata I, 29. 2-5 and Sumangalavilasini >>> (Buddhaghosa's commentary to Mahaparinibbana-sutta) VI, >>> 26 contain images of a revolving wheel (with 360? >>> spokes), guarded by figures with swords in hands, and by >>> two serpents. Vi?vakarma/Vissakamma is mentioned as the >>> wheel's constructor. >>> >>> Is that - or similar - image present somewhere else in the >>> ancient Indian literature? >>> >>> Thanks in advance for your comments - >>> >>> Artur Karp >>> >>> South Asian Studies Deptt (emeritus), University of >>> Warsaw, Poland >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> INDOLOGY mailing list >>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info >>> >>> indology-owner at list.indology.info >>> (messages to >>> the list's managing committee) >>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your >>> list options or unsubscribe) >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Madhav M. Deshpande >>> Professor of Sanskrit and Linguistics >>> Department of Asian Languages and Cultures >>> 202 South Thayer Street, Suite 6111 >>> The University of Michigan >>> Ann Arbor, MI 48104-1608, USA >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> INDOLOGY mailing list >>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info >>> indology-owner at list.indology.info >>> (messages to the >>> list's managing committee) >>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list >>> options or unsubscribe) >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> INDOLOGY mailing list >>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info >>> indology-owner at list.indology.info >>> (messages to the list's >>> managing committee) >>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list >>> options or unsubscribe) >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> INDOLOGY mailing list >>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info >>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) >>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) >> >> >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From reimann at berkeley.edu Sat Mar 19 01:56:40 2016 From: reimann at berkeley.edu (Luis Gonzalez-Reimann) Date: Fri, 18 Mar 16 18:56:40 -0700 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Revolving wheel in ancient Indian literature In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <56ECB1D8.4080900@berkeley.edu> Thanks, Mak. The ideal year of 360 days was carried over into the Puranic system of kalpas, also known as days of Brahm?. A year of Brahm? lasts for 360 of his days (along with their 360 nights). The duration of a kalpa in human years is based on this year of 360 days. So is the 100-years duration of Brahm?'s life, which, in turn, continues with the Vedic (already present in the R?gveda) notion of 100 years as the ideal human lifetime. Luis _____ On 3/18/2016 5:48 PM, Bill Mak wrote: > As far as the number 360 and the months are concerned, it should be > noted that there is the idea of s?vanam?sa or "civil month", which is > an ideal month consisted of exactly 30 days. Hence, 12 civil months > would make up an ideal year of 360 days. This notion is suggested in > most older jyoti?a texts, from Veda?gajyoti?a to Yavanaj?taka though > not necessarily spelt out explicitly and is not known to be applied in > any known calendar in India. Hence, among the uniquely Indian four > types of months, one finds beside saura (solar, c. 30.5 days), c?ndra > (synodic, c. 29.5 days), n?k?atra (sidereal, c. 27.3 days), but also > s?vana (30 days). Kum?raj?va (4th century) in his description of the > Indian (Vedic) months gave the values of these four months which are > identical to VJ. YJ 79.11 gives definition of s?vanam?sa (tri??addin?? > s?vanam?sa) and the lord of the year system in YJ 79.54 suggests also > a year consisted of 360 days. > > Bill Mak > > -- > Bill M. Mak, PhD > Associate Professor > > Institute for Research in Humanities, Kyoto University > Yoshidahonmachi, Sakyo-ku, Kyoto, Japan 606-8501 > ?606-8501 ?????????? > ??????????? > > email: mak at zinbun.kyoto-u.ac.jp > Tel:+81-75-753-6961 > Fax:+81-75-753-6903 > > copies of my publications may be found at: > http://www.billmak.com > > On 2016/03/19, at 6:54, Jean-Michel Delire wrote: > >> I agree about the very common division of the year into 360 days (and >> nights), plus 5 additive days (sometimes called epagomenoi). It also >> existed in Ancient Egypt. On the other hand, the 12 months are not >> the 28 days months, which are sideral months (the moon passes through >> all the constellations/naksatras in about 27,5 days), but the synodic >> months during which the moon goes from one relative position to the >> sun - by instance a full moon - to the next similar position, through >> last quarter, new moon and first quarter. The synodic duration, of >> 29,5 days approximately, is much closer to 30 days. This was already >> known by the Vedanga Jyotisa, although the duration of the year is >> 366 days in that case. >> >> Jean Michel Delire, University of Brussels >> >> >>> That's true Dominik, but we must consider that any tradition that >>> counts >>> the days in a year ends up with 360 days, a good divisible number, plus >>> 5. It happens in Mesoamerican calendars, where those "extra" days are >>> considered negative or empty. They are called /nemontemi/ in Nahuatl. >>> >>> So a symbolical year of 360 plus days doesn't automatically mean that >>> its origin is Mesopotamian. 360 can easily be divided by 12 to give 12 >>> months, and this can be correlated with the 27/28 days in a lunar >>> cycle/month. It is not a perfect fit, which is why most calendars >>> end up >>> being soli-lunar, with either extra months or days. But 360 is a good >>> symbolical number in a decimal system in addition to its importance >>> as a >>> sexagesimal one. >>> >>> Luis >>> _____ >>> >>> On 3/18/2016 12:17 PM, Dominik Wujastyk wrote: >>>> The reference to 360 spokes is a sexagesimal number expressed in >>>> decimal. This certainly points to the mathematical traditions of >>>> Mesopotamia. >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Professor Dominik Wujastyk* >>>> >>>> Singhmar Chair in Classical Indian Society and Polity >>>> Department of History and Classics >>>> >>>> University of Alberta, Canada >>>> >>>> On 18 March 2016 at 08:52, George Thompson >>> >>>> > wrote: >>>> >>>> Hello all, >>>> >>>> Madhav's passage is RV 1.164.11. By chance, I've been looking at >>>> this hymn today. >>>> >>>> George Thompson >>>> >>>> On Fri, Mar 18, 2016 at 9:04 AM, Madhav Deshpande >>>> >>>> > wrote: >>>> >>>> The idea of a rotating wheel of time goes all the way back to >>>> the Rigveda: dv?da??ra? na hi taj jar?ya vavarti cakram pari >>>> dy?m ?tasya (don't have the textual ref at hand). The idea of >>>> the spokes of the wheel going up and down is referred to in >>>> Sanskrit lit in many places with expressions like >>>> cakra-nemi-krama and cakr?rapa?kti. >>>> >>>> Madhav Deshpande >>>> >>>> On Fri, Mar 18, 2016 at 8:42 AM, Artur Karp >>> >>>> > wrote: >>>> >>>> Dear List, >>>> >>>> Mahabharata I, 29. 2-5 and Sumangalavilasini >>>> (Buddhaghosa's commentary to Mahaparinibbana-sutta) VI, >>>> 26 contain images of a revolving wheel (with 360? >>>> spokes), guarded by figures with swords in hands, and by >>>> two serpents. Vi?vakarma/Vissakamma is mentioned as the >>>> wheel's constructor. >>>> >>>> Is that - or similar - image present somewhere else in the >>>> ancient Indian literature? >>>> >>>> Thanks in advance for your comments - >>>> >>>> Artur Karp >>>> >>>> South Asian Studies Deptt (emeritus), University of >>>> Warsaw, Poland >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> INDOLOGY mailing list >>>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info >>>> >>>> indology-owner at list.indology.info >>>> >>>> (messages to >>>> the list's managing committee) >>>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your >>>> list options or unsubscribe) >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Madhav M. Deshpande >>>> Professor of Sanskrit and Linguistics >>>> Department of Asian Languages and Cultures >>>> 202 South Thayer Street, Suite 6111 >>>> The University of Michigan >>>> Ann Arbor, MI 48104-1608, USA >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> INDOLOGY mailing list >>>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info >>>> >>>> indology-owner at list.indology.info >>>> >>>> (messages to the >>>> list's managing committee) >>>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list >>>> options or unsubscribe) >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> INDOLOGY mailing list >>>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info >>>> >>>> indology-owner at list.indology.info >>>> >>>> (messages to the list's >>>> managing committee) >>>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list >>>> options or unsubscribe) >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> INDOLOGY mailing list >>>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info >>>> indology-owner at list.indology.info >>>> (messages to the list's >>>> managing committee) >>>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list >>>> options or unsubscribe) >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> INDOLOGY mailing list >> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info >> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing >> committee) >> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options >> or unsubscribe) > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From james.hartzell at gmail.com Sat Mar 19 06:21:35 2016 From: james.hartzell at gmail.com (James Hartzell) Date: Sat, 19 Mar 16 11:51:35 +0530 Subject: [INDOLOGY] The Sun as the "21st" In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Many thanks to Brett Shults, Gaia Pintucci, Dipak Bhattacharya, Joanna Jurewicz, and Luis Gonzalez-Reimann for their help with this question. Cheers James On Fri, Mar 18, 2016 at 2:58 PM, James Hartzell wrote: > Dear Colleagues > > I?ve come across two references in the Br?hma?as to the Sun as ?the > twenty-first? ? > > ?B 6.7.1.1: ?? It (the plate) is round, for he (the Sun) is round. It has > twenty-one knobs, for he is the twenty-first. He wears it with the knobs > outside, for the knobs are his (the Sun's) rays, and his rays are outside." > (Eggeling 1894:265),? > and > AB 4.18: "They perform the ceremonies of the Ekavi??a day, which is the > equator, dividing the year (into two equal parts). By means of the > performance of this day, the gods had raised the Sun up to the heavens. > This Ekavi??a day on which the Div?k?rtya mantra (was produced) is preceded > by ten days, and followed by ten days, and is in the midst (of both > periods). On both sides it is thus put in a Vir??: (the number ten). Being > thus put in a Vir?? (in the number ten) on both sides, this (Ekavi??a, i.e. > the Sun) becomes not disturbed in his course through these worlds." (Haug > 1977:288-289). > > Does anyone have other references to the Sun as the 21st, and any other > explanations for this other than these two Brahmana explanations? > > Cheers > > James Hartzell, PhD(2x) > Center for Mind/Brain Sciences (CIMeC) > The University of Trento, Italy > -- James Hartzell, PhD(2x) Center for Mind/Brain Sciences (CIMeC) The University of Trento, Italy -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From slaje at kabelmail.de Sat Mar 19 07:20:07 2016 From: slaje at kabelmail.de (Walter Slaje) Date: Sat, 19 Mar 16 08:20:07 +0100 Subject: [INDOLOGY] The Sun as the "21st" In-Reply-To: <56EC84B4.1000206@berkeley.edu> Message-ID: Dear Luis, the translational usage of "equator" ("dividing the year (into two equal parts)") in contexts related to uttar?ya?a and dak?i??yana is generally short for "celestial equator". See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solstice. Regards, Walter ----------------------------- Prof. Dr. Walter Slaje Hermann-L?ns-Str. 1 D-99425 Weimar Deutschland Ego ex animi mei sententia spondeo ac polliceor studia humanitatis impigro labore culturum et provecturum non sordidi lucri causa nec ad vanam captandam gloriam, sed quo magis veritas propagetur et lux eius, qua salus humani generis continetur, clarius effulgeat. Vindobonae, die XXI. mensis Novembris MCMLXXXIII. 2016-03-18 23:44 GMT+01:00 Luis Gonzalez-Reimann : > Dear James, > > Although this isn't the subject of your question, I think it is important > to consider that the Ekavi??a day in the AB is quite certainly the summer > solstice, and not the "equator." > > Luis > _____ > > On 3/18/2016 2:28 AM, James Hartzell wrote: > > Dear Colleagues > > I?ve come across two references in the Br?hma?as to the Sun as ?the > twenty-first? ? > > ?B 6.7.1.1: ?? It (the plate) is round, for he (the Sun) is round. It has > twenty-one knobs, for he is the twenty-first. He wears it with the knobs > outside, for the knobs are his (the Sun's) rays, and his rays are outside." > (Eggeling 1894:265),? > and > AB 4.18: "They perform the ceremonies of the Ekavi??a day, which is the > equator, dividing the year (into two equal parts). By means of the > performance of this day, the gods had raised the Sun up to the heavens. > This Ekavi??a day on which the Div?k?rtya mantra (was produced) is preceded > by ten days, and followed by ten days, and is in the midst (of both > periods). On both sides it is thus put in a Vir??: (the number ten). Being > thus put in a Vir?? (in the number ten) on both sides, this (Ekavi??a, i.e. > the Sun) becomes not disturbed in his course through these worlds." (Haug > 1977:288-289). > > Does anyone have other references to the Sun as the 21st, and any other > explanations for this other than these two Brahmana explanations? > > Cheers > > James Hartzell, PhD(2x) > Center for Mind/Brain Sciences (CIMeC) > The University of Trento, Italy > > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing listINDOLOGY at list.indology.infoindology-owner@list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee)http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) > > > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing > committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or > unsubscribe) > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From arlogriffiths at hotmail.com Sat Mar 19 09:46:41 2016 From: arlogriffiths at hotmail.com (Arlo Griffiths) Date: Sat, 19 Mar 16 09:46:41 +0000 Subject: [INDOLOGY] email address of N.S. Ramachandra Murthy Message-ID: Colleagues, Would anyone be able to help me obtain the email address of N.S. Ramachandra Murthy, who, I am told, is now heading the Epigraphy Branch of the ASI in Mysore? Thanks. Arlo Griffiths ?cole fran?aise d'Extr?me-Orient -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From davidpaolo.pierdominicileao at uniroma1.it Sat Mar 19 18:33:21 2016 From: davidpaolo.pierdominicileao at uniroma1.it (David Pierdominici) Date: Sat, 19 Mar 16 19:33:21 +0100 Subject: =?utf-8?Q?[INDOLOGY]_Samar=C4=81iccakah=C4=81?= Message-ID: <90DFEA88-6102-496D-A97E-810CA97893B8@uniroma1.it> Dear colleagues, I am looking for a digital copy of the Samar?iccakah? of Haribhadra; I?ve search many times through the web, but with no results. Does anyone have it? Many thanks in advance and my best regards. David Pierdominici PhD candidate Sapienza Universit? di Roma From andrew.ollett at gmail.com Sat Mar 19 18:51:39 2016 From: andrew.ollett at gmail.com (Andrew Ollett) Date: Sat, 19 Mar 16 11:51:39 -0700 Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_[INDOLOGY]_Samar=C4=81iccakah=C4=81?= In-Reply-To: <90DFEA88-6102-496D-A97E-810CA97893B8@uniroma1.it> Message-ID: Dear David, Rameshchandra Jain's two-volume edition is available at Jain E-Library (requires login): http://jainlibrary.org/book.php?file=001881 http://jainlibrary.org/book.php?file=001882 An edition from Ahmedabad with a Sanskrit ch?y? by Bhagav?n D?s is available there as well: http://jainlibrary.org/book.php?file=600007 http://jainlibrary.org/book.php?file=600008 Some volumes of M.C. Modi's edition (1935) are available from DLI (99999990282372, 99999990294091, 4990010031563, 4990010031562), as is volume 1 of Jacobi's edition of 1926 (99999990293711, 99999990321902). Andrew On Sat, Mar 19, 2016 at 11:33 AM, David Pierdominici < davidpaolo.pierdominicileao at uniroma1.it> wrote: > Dear colleagues, > > I am looking for a digital copy of the Samar?iccakah? of Haribhadra; I?ve > search many times through the web, but with no results. > Does anyone have it? > Many thanks in advance and my best regards. > > David Pierdominici > PhD candidate > Sapienza Universit? di Roma > > > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing > committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or > unsubscribe) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From paoloe.rosati at gmail.com Sun Mar 20 22:03:49 2016 From: paoloe.rosati at gmail.com (Paolo Eugenio Rosati) Date: Sun, 20 Mar 16 23:03:49 +0100 Subject: [INDOLOGY] PDF request Message-ID: <56ef1e6d.8673c20a.63013.0182@mx.google.com> Dear indologists, I'm looking for a PDF copy of Sharma, M.M. 1978. Inscriptions of Ancient Assam. Guwahati: Dept. Publications Guwahati University. And of the follow parts of book: Hudson, D.D. 2002. "Self Sacrifice as Truth in India." Harlan, L. 2002. "Truth and Sacrifice. Sati Immolations in India." Both should be part of M. Cormack, Sacrificing the self: perspectives on martyrdom and religion. New York: OUP. Best, Paolo Paolo E. Rosati Oriental Archaeologist PhD candidate in Civilisations of Asia & Africa Section: South Asia Dep. Italian Institute of Oriental Studies (ISO) 'Sapienza' University of Rome paoloe.rosati at uniroma1.it paoloe.rosati at gmail.com Mobile: (+39) 3387383472 Skype: paoloe.rosati -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From reimann at berkeley.edu Sun Mar 20 23:48:23 2016 From: reimann at berkeley.edu (Luis Gonzalez-Reimann) Date: Sun, 20 Mar 16 16:48:23 -0700 Subject: [INDOLOGY] The Sun as the "21st" In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <56EF36C7.9050406@berkeley.edu> Apologies for a longish post. Dear Walter, The celestial equator is simply the projection of the terrestrial equator onto the celestial sphere. Equator means equalizer of day and night (http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=equator), which is a reference to the two equinoxes. When the sun crosses the celestial equator, which happens twice a year, day and night are of equal length. When it crosses the equator from south to north, it is the spring equinox (March 21st), and when it crosses it again from north to south, it is the autumnal equinox (sept. 22nd). Now, if you want to divide the year in two on the basis of the celestial equator, each half of the year is the period between equinoxes, so one half includes spring and summer (Mar. 21 to Sept. 22), while the second half is made up of fall and winter (Sept. 22 to Mar. 21). But that doesn't correspond to the uttar?ya?a and the dak?i??yana. The uttar?ya?? goes from the winter solstice to the summer solstices, and the dak?i??yana from the summer solstice to the winter solstice. In other words, for the ayanas the division of the year in two is made along the line of the solstices, not along the line of the equinoxes. In any case, to say that the Ekavi??a day is the (celestial) equator makes no astronomical sense. The Ekavi??a is one day of the year, whereas the (celestial) equator is a great circle of 360 degrees. If you wanted to define the ekavi??a with reference to the celestial equator, you'd have to say it is the day on which the sun, in its apparent movement throughout the year, reaches its highest distance to the north of the celestial equator. In astronomical terms, that is the day when the sun reaches its maximum northern declination. But understanding the uttar?ya?a and the dak?in?yana doesn't require all these complicated visualizations of celestial circles. Ancient observers of the sky didn't look at it in those terms. For them, it was an observable phenomenon that is easy to track. You watch the sunrise every day for a year facing West, and notice how the sunrise point moves along the horizon as days proceed. There are two maximum points, one when the sunrise point is farthest to the left (North) along the horizon, and the other when it is farthest to the right (South). Those two points are the solstices. That is where the terms uttar?ya?a and dak?in?ya?a come from. During the uttar?ya?a, the sun rises more to the left/North (uttara) every day until the Summer solstice. Then it reverses its movement and starts rising every day further to the right/South (dak?i?a) until it reaches the Winter solstice. That is why the Ekavi??a is the day of the summer solstice. And when the AB says: "By means of the performance of this day, the gods had raised the Sun up to the heavens," that's probably a reference to the fact that at the summer solstice thew sun reaches its highest altitude above the horizon at midday. After that, the maximum altitude of the sun at noon gradually decreases. Cheers, Luis ___ On 3/19/2016 12:20 AM, Walter Slaje wrote: > Dear Luis, > > the translational usage of "equator" ("dividing the year (into two > equal parts)") in contexts related to uttar?ya?a and dak?i??yana is > generally short for "celestial equator". > See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solstice. > > Regards, > Walter > > ----------------------------- > Prof. Dr. Walter Slaje > Hermann-L?ns-Str. 1 > D-99425 Weimar > Deutschland > > Ego ex animi mei sententia spondeo ac polliceor > studia humanitatis impigro labore culturum et provecturum > non sordidi lucri causa nec ad vanam captandam gloriam, > sed quo magis veritas propagetur et lux eius, qua salus > humani generis continetur, clarius effulgeat. > Vindobonae, die XXI. mensis Novembris MCMLXXXIII. > > > > 2016-03-18 23:44 GMT+01:00 Luis Gonzalez-Reimann : > > Dear James, > > Although this isn't the subject of your question, I think it is > important to consider that the Ekavi??a day in the AB is quite > certainly the summer solstice, and not the "equator." > > Luis > _____ > > On 3/18/2016 2:28 AM, James Hartzell wrote: >> Dear Colleagues >> >> I?ve come across two references in the Br?hma?as to the Sun as >> ?the twenty-first? ? >> >> ?B 6.7.1.1 : ?? It (the plate) is round, for he >> (the Sun) is round. It has twenty-one knobs, for he is the >> twenty-first. He wears it with the knobs outside, for the knobs >> are his (the Sun's) rays, and his rays are outside." (Eggeling >> 1894:265),? >> and >> AB 4.18: "They perform the ceremonies of the Ekavi??a day, which >> is the equator, dividing the year (into two equal parts). By >> means of the performance of this day, the gods had raised the Sun >> up to the heavens. This Ekavi??a day on which the Div?k?rtya >> mantra (was produced) is preceded by ten days, and followed by >> ten days, and is in the midst (of both periods). On both sides it >> is thus put in a Vir??: (the number ten). Being thus put in a >> Vir?? (in the number ten) on both sides, this (Ekavi??a, i.e. the >> Sun) becomes not disturbed in his course through these worlds." >> (Haug 1977:288-289). >> >> Does anyone have other references to the Sun as the 21st, and any >> other explanations for this other than these two Brahmana >> explanations? >> >> Cheers >> >> James Hartzell, PhD^(2x) >> Center for Mind/Brain Sciences (CIMeC) >> The University of Trento, Italy >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> INDOLOGY mailing list >> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info >> indology-owner at list.indology.info >> (messages to the list's managing committee) >> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) > > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info > (messages to the list's > managing committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list > options or unsubscribe) > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From reimann at berkeley.edu Mon Mar 21 00:06:37 2016 From: reimann at berkeley.edu (Luis Gonzalez-Reimann) Date: Sun, 20 Mar 16 17:06:37 -0700 Subject: [INDOLOGY] The Sun as the "21st" CORRECTION In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <56EF3B0D.5030204@berkeley.edu> I resend the post with a correction. In the fourth paragraph I had written "facing West," when it should read "facing East." It's corrected below, so please delete the previous message. _____ Apologies for a longish post. Dear Walter, The celestial equator is simply the projection of the terrestrial equator onto the celestial sphere. Equator means equalizer of day and night (http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=equator), which is a reference to the two equinoxes. When the sun crosses the celestial equator, which happens twice a year, day and night are of equal length. When it crosses the equator from south to north, it is the spring equinox (March 21st), and when it crosses it again from north to south, it is the autumnal equinox (sept. 22nd). Now, if you want to divide the year in two on the basis of the celestial equator, each half of the year is the period between equinoxes, so one half includes spring and summer (Mar. 21 to Sept. 22), while the second half is made up of fall and winter (Sept. 22 to Mar. 21). But that doesn't correspond to the uttar?ya?a and the dak?i??yana. The uttar?ya?? goes from the winter solstice to the summer solstices, and the dak?i??yana from the summer solstice to the winter solstice. In other words, for the ayanas the division of the year in two is made along the line of the solstices, not along the line of the equinoxes. In any case, to say that the Ekavi??a day is the (celestial) equator makes no astronomical sense. The Ekavi??a is one day of the year, whereas the (celestial) equator is a great circle of 360 degrees. If you wanted to define the ekavi??a with reference to the celestial equator, you'd have to say it is the day on which the sun, in its apparent movement throughout the year, reaches its highest distance to the north of the celestial equator. In astronomical terms, that is the day when the sun reaches its maximum northern declination. But understanding the uttar?ya?a and the dak?in?yana doesn't require all these complicated visualizations of celestial circles. Ancient observers of the sky didn't look at it in those terms. For them, it was an observable phenomenon that is easy to track. You watch the sunrise every day for a year facing East, and notice how the sunrise point moves along the horizon as days proceed. There are two maximum points, one when the sunrise point is farthest to the left (North) along the horizon, and the other when it is farthest to the right (South). Those two points are the solstices. That is where the terms uttar?ya?a and dak?in?ya?a come from. During the uttar?ya?a, the sun rises more to the left/North (uttara) every day until the Summer solstice. Then it reverses its movement and starts rising every day further to the right/South (dak?i?a) until it reaches the Winter solstice. That is why the Ekavi??a is the day of the summer solstice. And when the AB says: "By means of the performance of this day, the gods had raised the Sun up to the heavens," that's probably a reference to the fact that at the summer solstice thew sun reaches its highest altitude above the horizon at midday. After that, the maximum altitude of the sun at noon gradually decreases. Cheers, Luis ___ On 3/19/2016 12:20 AM, Walter Slaje wrote: > Dear Luis, > > the translational usage of "equator" ("dividing the year (into two > equal parts)") in contexts related to uttar?ya?a and dak?i??yana is > generally short for "celestial equator". > See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solstice. > > Regards, > Walter > > ----------------------------- > Prof. Dr. Walter Slaje > Hermann-L?ns-Str. 1 > D-99425 Weimar > Deutschland > > Ego ex animi mei sententia spondeo ac polliceor > studia humanitatis impigro labore culturum et provecturum > non sordidi lucri causa nec ad vanam captandam gloriam, > sed quo magis veritas propagetur et lux eius, qua salus > humani generis continetur, clarius effulgeat. > Vindobonae, die XXI. mensis Novembris MCMLXXXIII. > > > > 2016-03-18 23:44 GMT+01:00 Luis Gonzalez-Reimann : > > Dear James, > > Although this isn't the subject of your question, I think it is > important to consider that the Ekavi??a day in the AB is quite > certainly the summer solstice, and not the "equator." > > Luis > _____ > > On 3/18/2016 2:28 AM, James Hartzell wrote: >> Dear Colleagues >> >> I?ve come across two references in the Br?hma?as to the Sun as >> ?the twenty-first? ? >> >> ?B 6.7.1.1 : ?? It (the plate) is round, for he >> (the Sun) is round. It has twenty-one knobs, for he is the >> twenty-first. He wears it with the knobs outside, for the knobs >> are his (the Sun's) rays, and his rays are outside." (Eggeling >> 1894:265),? >> and >> AB 4.18: "They perform the ceremonies of the Ekavi??a day, which >> is the equator, dividing the year (into two equal parts). By >> means of the performance of this day, the gods had raised the Sun >> up to the heavens. This Ekavi??a day on which the Div?k?rtya >> mantra (was produced) is preceded by ten days, and followed by >> ten days, and is in the midst (of both periods). On both sides it >> is thus put in a Vir??: (the number ten). Being thus put in a >> Vir?? (in the number ten) on both sides, this (Ekavi??a, i.e. the >> Sun) becomes not disturbed in his course through these worlds." >> (Haug 1977:288-289). >> >> Does anyone have other references to the Sun as the 21st, and any >> other explanations for this other than these two Brahmana >> explanations? >> >> Cheers >> >> James Hartzell, PhD^(2x) >> Center for Mind/Brain Sciences (CIMeC) >> The University of Trento, Italy >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> INDOLOGY mailing list >> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info >> indology-owner at list.indology.info >> (messages to the list's managing committee) >> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) > > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info > (messages to the list's > managing committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list > options or unsubscribe) > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jm63 at soas.ac.uk Mon Mar 21 03:17:48 2016 From: jm63 at soas.ac.uk (James Mallinson) Date: Mon, 21 Mar 16 08:47:48 +0530 Subject: =?utf-8?Q?[INDOLOGY]_N=C4=81gar=C4=ABprac=C4=81ri=E1=B9=87=C4=AB_Patrik=C4=81_article?= Message-ID: Dear Colleagues, If anyone could point me towards or send me a pdf of an article by U.P.Shah entitled ?N?th Siddho? k? pr?c?na ?ilpam?rtiy?n?, N?gar?prac?ri?? Patrik? var?a 62 Vols. 2 and 3, pp. 174-202 (I am not sure of the year of publication), I would be most grateful. I have looked online, including the DLI, with no luck (albeit via my mobile while travelling in MP). Yours, with best wishes, Jim From nmisra at gmail.com Mon Mar 21 07:14:29 2016 From: nmisra at gmail.com (Nityanand Misra) Date: Mon, 21 Mar 16 12:44:29 +0530 Subject: [INDOLOGY] GoI to unveil 10-year plan for Sanskrit revival Message-ID: http://www.dnaindia.com/india/report-modi-govt-to-unveil-10-year-plan-for-sanskrit-revival-to-introduce-it-in-iits-nits-2191900 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From hr at ivs.edu Mon Mar 21 12:14:31 2016 From: hr at ivs.edu (Howard Resnick) Date: Mon, 21 Mar 16 07:14:31 -0500 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Sanskrit in India In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <6B880CFE-43FA-4D26-99C5-182256F8C64C@ivs.edu> Here is the government report on teaching Sanskrit in India. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: 2016_02_12_Vision_and_Road_Map_for_the_Development_of_Sanskrit_Ten_year_perspective_Plan..pdf Type: application/pdf Size: 1295618 bytes Desc: not available URL: From slaje at kabelmail.de Mon Mar 21 15:25:02 2016 From: slaje at kabelmail.de (Walter Slaje) Date: Mon, 21 Mar 16 16:25:02 +0100 Subject: [INDOLOGY] The Sun as the "21st" CORRECTION In-Reply-To: <56EF3B0D.5030204@berkeley.edu> Message-ID: Dear Luis, thank you very much for your clear presentation, skillfully synchronized with this year?s spring equinox! How could one disagree with it? My point, however, was a modest knee-jerk reaction to the interpretation of Haug?s usage of ?equator? in the brief one-sentence quote under discussion. >From it, it could hardly have referred to the terrestrial equator in texts as early as the Br?hma?as, given the conception of the earth prevailing at their time. "Terrestrial" is how I had understood your citation of the word ?equator? ?emphasized by quotation marks, but perhaps mistakenly as it appears now. A comparison of the Sanskrit text: *ekavi??am etad ahar upayanti vi?uvantam madhye sa?vatsarasyai* to Haug?s translation of AB 4.18: ?They perform the ceremonies of the Ekavi??a day, which is the *equator*, dividing the year (into two equal parts)? shows that the term he had translated by ?equator? was *vi?uvant*, which (apparently in post-Vedic literature only) can also mean ?equinox?. What Haug himself had actually had in mind by using ?equator? becomes however clear from his introduction (on p. 46f), where he explains the calculation of the annual Sattra calendar ? incidentally in the context of ?the sun?s northern and southern progress? (*ayana*s) ? as follows: ?They? [the Sattras, W.S.] ?were divided into two distinct parts, each consisting of six months each; in the midst of both was the *Vishuvan*, i.e. *equator *or* central day*, *cutting the whole Sattra into two halves*.? Keith, in contrast, translates: ?They perform the Ekavi??a day, the Vi?uvant, in the middle of the year.? So much for the background as it relates to Haug ?? . Thanks again, and kind regards, Walter 2016-03-21 1:06 GMT+01:00 Luis Gonzalez-Reimann : > I resend the post with a correction. In the fourth paragraph I had written > "facing West," when it should read "facing East." It's corrected below, so > please delete the previous message. > _____ > > Apologies for a longish post. > > Dear Walter, > > The celestial equator is simply the projection of the terrestrial equator > onto the celestial sphere. Equator means equalizer of day and night ( > http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=equator), which is a reference > to the two equinoxes. When the sun crosses the celestial equator, which > happens twice a year, day and night are of equal length. When it crosses > the equator from south to north, it is the spring equinox (March 21st), and > when it crosses it again from north to south, it is the autumnal equinox > (sept. 22nd). > > Now, if you want to divide the year in two on the basis of the celestial > equator, each half of the year is the period between equinoxes, so one half > includes spring and summer (Mar. 21 to Sept. 22), while the second half is > made up of fall and winter (Sept. 22 to Mar. 21). But that doesn't > correspond to the uttar?ya?a and the dak?i??yana. The uttar?ya?? goes from > the winter solstice to the summer solstices, and the dak?i??yana from the > summer solstice to the winter solstice. In other words, for the ayanas the > division of the year in two is made along the line of the solstices, not > along the line of the equinoxes. > > In any case, to say that the Ekavi??a day is the (celestial) equator makes > no astronomical sense. The Ekavi??a is one day of the year, whereas the > (celestial) equator is a great circle of 360 degrees. If you wanted to > define the ekavi??a with reference to the celestial equator, you'd have to > say it is the day on which the sun, in its apparent movement throughout the > year, reaches its highest distance to the north of the celestial equator. > In astronomical terms, that is the day when the sun reaches its maximum > northern declination. > > But understanding the uttar?ya?a and the dak?in?yana doesn't require all > these complicated visualizations of celestial circles. Ancient observers of > the sky didn't look at it in those terms. For them, it was an observable > phenomenon that is easy to track. You watch the sunrise every day for a > year facing East, and notice how the sunrise point moves along the horizon > as days proceed. There are two maximum points, one when the sunrise point > is farthest to the left (North) along the horizon, and the other when it is > farthest to the right (South). Those two points are the solstices. That is > where the terms uttar?ya?a and dak?in?ya?a come from. During the > uttar?ya?a, the sun rises more to the left/North (uttara) every day until > the Summer solstice. Then it reverses its movement and starts rising every > day further to the right/South (dak?i?a) until it reaches the Winter > solstice. > > That is why the Ekavi??a is the day of the summer solstice. > > And when the AB says: "By means of the performance of this day, the gods > had raised the Sun up to the heavens," that's probably a reference to the > fact that at the summer solstice thew sun reaches its highest altitude > above the horizon at midday. After that, the maximum altitude of the sun at > noon gradually decreases. > > Cheers, > > Luis > ___ > > > On 3/19/2016 12:20 AM, Walter Slaje wrote: > > Dear Luis, > > the translational usage of "equator" ("dividing the year (into two equal > parts)") in contexts related to uttar?ya?a and dak?i??yana is generally > short for "celestial equator". > See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solstice. > > Regards, > Walter > > ----------------------------- > Prof. Dr. Walter Slaje > Hermann-L?ns-Str. 1 > D-99425 Weimar > Deutschland > > Ego ex animi mei sententia spondeo ac polliceor > studia humanitatis impigro labore culturum et provecturum > non sordidi lucri causa nec ad vanam captandam gloriam, > sed quo magis veritas propagetur et lux eius, qua salus > humani generis continetur, clarius effulgeat. > Vindobonae, die XXI. mensis Novembris MCMLXXXIII. > > > > 2016-03-18 23:44 GMT+01:00 Luis Gonzalez-Reimann : > >> Dear James, >> >> Although this isn't the subject of your question, I think it is important >> to consider that the Ekavi??a day in the AB is quite certainly the summer >> solstice, and not the "equator." >> >> Luis >> _____ >> >> On 3/18/2016 2:28 AM, James Hartzell wrote: >> >> Dear Colleagues >> >> I?ve come across two references in the Br?hma?as to the Sun as ?the >> twenty-first? ? >> >> ?B 6.7.1.1: ?? It (the plate) is round, for he (the Sun) is round. It >> has twenty-one knobs, for he is the twenty-first. He wears it with the >> knobs outside, for the knobs are his (the Sun's) rays, and his rays are >> outside." (Eggeling 1894:265),? >> and >> AB 4.18: "They perform the ceremonies of the Ekavi??a day, which is the >> equator, dividing the year (into two equal parts). By means of the >> performance of this day, the gods had raised the Sun up to the heavens. >> This Ekavi??a day on which the Div?k?rtya mantra (was produced) is preceded >> by ten days, and followed by ten days, and is in the midst (of both >> periods). On both sides it is thus put in a Vir??: (the number ten). Being >> thus put in a Vir?? (in the number ten) on both sides, this (Ekavi??a, i.e. >> the Sun) becomes not disturbed in his course through these worlds." (Haug >> 1977:288-289). >> >> Does anyone have other references to the Sun as the 21st, and any other >> explanations for this other than these two Brahmana explanations? >> >> Cheers >> >> James Hartzell, PhD(2x) >> Center for Mind/Brain Sciences (CIMeC) >> The University of Trento, Italy >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> INDOLOGY mailing listINDOLOGY at list.indology.infoindology-owner@list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee)http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> INDOLOGY mailing list >> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info >> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing >> committee) >> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or >> unsubscribe) >> > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Haug.pdf Type: application/pdf Size: 373079 bytes Desc: not available URL: From r.mahoney at indica-et-buddhica.org Mon Mar 21 18:22:58 2016 From: r.mahoney at indica-et-buddhica.org (Richard Mahoney | Indica et Buddhica) Date: Tue, 22 Mar 16 07:22:58 +1300 Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_[INDOLOGY]_N=C4=81gar=C4=ABprac=C4=81ri=E1=B9=87=C4=AB_Patrik=C4=81_article?= In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <56F03C02.80800@indica-et-buddhica.org> Dear Jim, It looks like ILL through Hamburg may be a possibility, though Tokyo looks more likely. Scholia ~ Zeitschriftendatenbank (ZDB) Title = N?gar?prac?ri?? Patrik? and ZDB-ID = 4015708 http://scholia.indica-et-buddhica.org/search/zdb.sch?attribute=@attr%201=4&query=N%C4%81gar%C4%ABprac%C4%81ri%E1%B9%87%C4%AB%20Patrik%C4%81&attribute2=@attr%201=1007&query2=4015708&operator=@and&displayform=2&num=1&start=1 v. Holdings: Hamburg - only 62:1(1957)? check for others? Scholia ~ NACSIS-CAT Title = N?gar?prac?ri?? Patrik? and NCID = AA11490621 http://scholia.indica-et-buddhica.org/search/nii.sch?attribute=@attr%201=4&query=N%C4%81gar%C4%ABprac%C4%81ri%E1%B9%87%C4%AB%20Patrik%C4%81&attribute2=@attr%201=12&query2=AA11490621&operator=@and&displayform=2&num=1&start=1 v. Holdings: The Library Tokyo University of Foreign Studies - 62. all? Best, R On 2016-03-21 16:17, James Mallinson wrote: > Dear Colleagues, > > If anyone could point me towards or send me a pdf of an article by > U.P.Shah entitled ?N?th Siddho? k? pr?c?na ?ilpam?rtiy?n?, > N?gar?prac?ri?? Patrik? var?a 62 Vols. 2 and 3, pp. 174-202 (I am not > sure of the year of publication), I would be most grateful. I have > looked online, including the DLI, with no luck (albeit via my mobile > while travelling in MP). > > Yours, with best wishes, > > Jim -- Richard Mahoney | Indica et Buddhica Littledene Bay Road Oxford 7430 NZ M: +64-21-064-0216 T: +64-3-312-1699 r.mahoney at indica-et-buddhica.org -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 473 bytes Desc: not available URL: From p.balcerowicz at uw.edu.pl Mon Mar 21 20:45:15 2016 From: p.balcerowicz at uw.edu.pl (Piotr Balcerowicz) Date: Mon, 21 Mar 16 21:45:15 +0100 Subject: =?utf-8?Q?[INDOLOGY]_Hiltebeitel's_paper_on_Proto-=C5=9Aiva_(1978)?= Message-ID: <1340941788.7600749.1458593115834.JavaMail.javamailuser@localhost> Dear Colleagues, I'm looking for a copy of the following paper: The Indus Valley "Proto-?iva", Reexamined through Reflections on the Goddess, the Buffalo, and the Symbolism of v?hanas Alf Hiltebeitel Anthropos Bd. 73, H. 5./6. (1978), pp. 767-797 I would appreciate your help in getting a digital copy of it. Thank you. Best regards, Piotr Balcerowicz -------------------------------- www.orient.uw.edu.pl/balcerowicz From p.balcerowicz at uw.edu.pl Mon Mar 21 21:53:08 2016 From: p.balcerowicz at uw.edu.pl (Piotr Balcerowicz) Date: Mon, 21 Mar 16 22:53:08 +0100 Subject: =?utf-8?Q?[INDOLOGY]_thanks_for_Hiltebeitel's_paper_on_Proto-=C5=9Aiva_(1978)?= Message-ID: <509994031.7628708.1458597188068.JavaMail.javamailuser@localhost> Dear Colleagues, I've received a copy of the paper. Thanks a lot! Best regards, Piotr Balcerowicz -------------------------------- www.orient.uw.edu.pl/balcerowicz ----- Forwarded Message ----- From: Piotr Balcerowicz To: Indology List Sent: Mon, 21 Mar 2016 21:45:15 +0100 (CET) Subject: Hiltebeitel's paper on Proto-?iva (1978) Dear Colleagues, I'm looking for a copy of the following paper: The Indus Valley "Proto-?iva", Reexamined through Reflections on the Goddess, the Buffalo, and the Symbolism of v?hanas Alf Hiltebeitel Anthropos Bd. 73, H. 5./6. (1978), pp. 767-797 I would appreciate your help in getting a digital copy of it. Thank you. Best regards, Piotr Balcerowicz -------------------------------- www.orient.uw.edu.pl/balcerowicz From shrivara at gmail.com Tue Mar 22 04:41:02 2016 From: shrivara at gmail.com (Shrinivasa Varakhedi) Date: Tue, 22 Mar 16 04:41:02 +0000 Subject: =?utf-8?B?UmU6IFtJTkRPTE9HWV0Je+CkreCkvuCksOCkpOClgOCkr+CkteCkv+CkpuCljeCkteCkpOCljeCkquCksOCkv+Ckt+CkpOCljX0gR29JIHRvIHVudmVpbCAxMC15ZWFyIHBsYW4gZm9yIFNhbnNrcml0IHJldml2YWw=?= In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Thanks. The "vision document" and "the action plan" submitted to the ministry of HRD has been accepted by the ministry and in turn the ministry has written DO letters to the heads of the institutions, departments and autonomous bodies under MHRD to see the action plans are implemented within the existing policies of the govt and to report to the ministry in case any discrebencies are found in current policies while implementing the action plans for Sanskrit development. With this the commitment of the Govt to the cause is evinced - sources confirmed. Now it is the responsibility of the local teams of Sanskrit fraternity to take action on the letter by the Govt in order to get the vision translated into reality. One more very important matter : CBSE has taken a step to promote Sanskrit studies in its schools across the country by authorising local heads of institutions to appoint Sanskrit teachers wherever necessary including 11 and 12 standards. Now this news has to be brought to the notice of local Sanskrit teachers, which will create an employment opportunity for Sanskrit teachers and study opportunity for students. Kinldy inform the concerned. With best regards Shrinivasa Varakhedi On Mon, 21 Mar 2016 at 12:44 PM, Nityanand Misra wrote: > > http://www.dnaindia.com/india/report-modi-govt-to-unveil-10-year-plan-for-sanskrit-revival-to-introduce-it-in-iits-nits-2191900 > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "???????????????????" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to bvparishat+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to bvparishat at googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From reimann at berkeley.edu Tue Mar 22 05:00:46 2016 From: reimann at berkeley.edu (Luis Gonzalez-Reimann) Date: Mon, 21 Mar 16 22:00:46 -0700 Subject: [INDOLOGY] The Sun as the "21st" CORRECTION In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <56F0D17E.5070900@berkeley.edu> Dear Walter, Thanks for pointing out that "equator" was Haug's translation of /vi?uvant/. There has been some confusion regarding the meaning of /vi?uvat/ because, as you say, in post-Vedic, especially astronomical (/Siddh?nta/) literature it was used to mean the equinoxes or the celestial equator. But that is clearly not the case in the AB. An example of a Siddh?nta using /vi?uvat/ for the equinoxes/celestial equator is the /Pa?casiddh?ntik?/ of Var?hamihira, which states that (3.23): /me?at?ly?dau vi?uvat/, "/vi?uvat/ is at the beginning of Aries and Libra." Those are the equinoxes, the points at which the equator is crossed by the ecliptic. Haug does seem to believe that the AB is referring to the equinoxes here, meaning that the /uttar?ya?a/ and the /dak?in?yana/ would go from one equinox to the other, instead of from one solstice to the other, which is their correct meaning in the AB. The confusion, or the change of meaning for /vi?uvat/ (-/ant/) surely stems from the fact that /vi?uvant/ simply refers to something making a division into two. And the year can be divided into two equal halves either by the line of the equinoxes or by the line of the solstices. There is another reason that has to do with the fact that from the spring equinox to the fall equinox the sun has a northern declination (in astronomical lingo), whereas from the fall equinox to the spring one it has a southern declination. But I won't get into that. I wrote about the /ayanas/ in detail in 1988/, /in the appendix to my book in Spanish /Tiempo c?clico y eras del mundo en la India /(/Cyclical Time and World Ages in India/), which includes several diagrams. That book is different from /The Mah?bh?rata and the Yugas/ (2002). I mention this because I've been asked if one book is just a translation of the other. It is not, they are two different books. I have just uploaded the book (/Tiempo c?clico.../) to academia. edu, in case anyone would like to see it or download it. The appendix is on pp. 153-163: https://www.academia.edu/1785842/Tiempo_c%C3%ADclico_y_eras_del_mundo_en_la_India._1988_reprinted_2006 All the best, Luis _____ On 3/21/2016 8:25 AM, Walter Slaje wrote: > > Dear Luis, > > thank you very much for your clear presentation, skillfully > synchronized with this year?s spring equinox! > > How could one disagree with it? > > My point, however, was a modest knee-jerk reaction to the > interpretation of Haug?s usage of ?equator? in the brief one-sentence > quote under discussion. >From it, it could hardly have referred to the > terrestrial equator in texts as early as the Br?hma?as, given the > conception of the earth prevailing at their time. "Terrestrial" is how > I had understood your citation of the word ?equator? > > ?emphasized byquotation marks, but perhaps mistakenly as it appears now. > > A comparison of the Sanskrit text: > > /ekavi??am etad ahar upayanti *vi?uvantam* madhye sa?vatsarasyai/ > > to Haug?s translation of AB 4.18: > > ?They perform the ceremonies of the Ekavi??a day, which is the > *equator*, dividing the year (into two equal parts)? > > shows that the term he had translated by ?equator? was /vi?uvant/, > which (apparently in post-Vedic literature only) can also mean > ?equinox?. What Haug himself had actually had in mind by using > ?equator? becomes however clear from his introduction (on p. 46f), > where he explains the calculation of the annual Sattra calendar ? > incidentally in the context of ?the sun?s northern and southern > progress? (/ayana/s) ? as follows: ?They? [the Sattras, W.S.] ?were > divided into two distinct parts, each consisting of six months each; > in the midst of both was the /Vishuvan/, i.e. *equator *or*central > day*, *cutting the whole Sattra into two halves*.? > > > Keith, in contrast, translates: ?They perform the Ekavi??a day, the > Vi?uvant, in the middle of the year.? > > > So much for the background as it relates to Haug > > ?? > . > > Thanks again, > > and kind regards, > > > Walter > > > 2016-03-21 1:06 GMT+01:00 Luis Gonzalez-Reimann >: > > I resend the post with a correction. In the fourth paragraph I had > written "facing West," when it should read "facing East." It's > corrected below, so please delete the previous message. > _____ > > Apologies for a longish post. > > Dear Walter, > > The celestial equator is simply the projection of the terrestrial > equator onto the celestial sphere. Equator means equalizer of day > and night (http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=equator), > which is a reference to the two equinoxes. When the sun crosses > the celestial equator, which happens twice a year, day and night > are of equal length. When it crosses the equator from south to > north, it is the spring equinox (March 21st), and when it crosses > it again from north to south, it is the autumnal equinox (sept. > 22nd). > > Now, if you want to divide the year in two on the basis of the > celestial equator, each half of the year is the period between > equinoxes, so one half includes spring and summer (Mar. 21 to > Sept. 22), while the second half is made up of fall and winter > (Sept. 22 to Mar. 21). But that doesn't correspond to the > uttar?ya?a and the dak?i??yana. The uttar?ya?? goes from the > winter solstice to the summer solstices, and the dak?i??yana from > the summer solstice to the winter solstice. In other words, for > the ayanas the division of the year in two is made along the line > of the solstices, not along the line of the equinoxes. > > In any case, to say that the Ekavi??a day is the (celestial) > equator makes no astronomical sense. The Ekavi??a is one day of > the year, whereas the (celestial) equator is a great circle of 360 > degrees. If you wanted to define the ekavi??a with reference to > the celestial equator, you'd have to say it is the day on which > the sun, in its apparent movement throughout the year, reaches its > highest distance to the north of the celestial equator. In > astronomical terms, that is the day when the sun reaches its > maximum northern declination. > > But understanding the uttar?ya?a and the dak?in?yana doesn't > require all these complicated visualizations of celestial circles. > Ancient observers of the sky didn't look at it in those terms. For > them, it was an observable phenomenon that is easy to track. You > watch the sunrise every day for a year facing East, and notice how > the sunrise point moves along the horizon as days proceed. There > are two maximum points, one when the sunrise point is farthest to > the left (North) along the horizon, and the other when it is > farthest to the right (South). Those two points are the solstices. > That is where the terms uttar?ya?a and dak?in?ya?a come from. > During the uttar?ya?a, the sun rises more to the left/North > (uttara) every day until the Summer solstice. Then it reverses its > movement and starts rising every day further to the right/South > (dak?i?a) until it reaches the Winter solstice. > > That is why the Ekavi??a is the day of the summer solstice. > > And when the AB says: "By means of the performance of this day, > the gods had raised the Sun up to the heavens," that's probably a > reference to the fact that at the summer solstice thew sun reaches > its highest altitude above the horizon at midday. After that, the > maximum altitude of the sun at noon gradually decreases. > > Cheers, > > Luis > ___ > > > On 3/19/2016 12:20 AM, Walter Slaje wrote: >> Dear Luis, >> >> the translational usage of "equator" ("dividing the year (into >> two equal parts)") in contexts related to uttar?ya?a and >> dak?i??yana is generally short for "celestial equator". >> See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solstice. >> >> Regards, >> Walter >> >> ----------------------------- >> Prof. Dr. Walter Slaje >> Hermann-L?ns-Str. 1 >> D-99425 Weimar >> Deutschland >> >> Ego ex animi mei sententia spondeo ac polliceor >> studia humanitatis impigro labore culturum et provecturum >> non sordidi lucri causa nec ad vanam captandam gloriam, >> sed quo magis veritas propagetur et lux eius, qua salus >> humani generis continetur, clarius effulgeat. >> Vindobonae, die XXI. mensis Novembris MCMLXXXIII. >> >> >> >> 2016-03-18 23:44 GMT+01:00 Luis Gonzalez-Reimann >> >: >> >> Dear James, >> >> Although this isn't the subject of your question, I think it >> is important to consider that the Ekavi??a day in the AB is >> quite certainly the summer solstice, and not the "equator." >> >> Luis >> _____ >> >> On 3/18/2016 2:28 AM, James Hartzell wrote: >>> Dear Colleagues >>> >>> I?ve come across two references in the Br?hma?as to the Sun >>> as ?the twenty-first? ? >>> >>> ?B 6.7.1.1 : ?? It (the plate) is round, for >>> he (the Sun) is round. It has twenty-one knobs, for he is >>> the twenty-first. He wears it with the knobs outside, for >>> the knobs are his (the Sun's) rays, and his rays are >>> outside." (Eggeling 1894:265),? >>> and >>> AB 4.18: "They perform the ceremonies of the Ekavi??a day, >>> which is the equator, dividing the year (into two equal >>> parts). By means of the performance of this day, the gods >>> had raised the Sun up to the heavens. This Ekavi??a day on >>> which the Div?k?rtya mantra (was produced) is preceded by >>> ten days, and followed by ten days, and is in the midst (of >>> both periods). On both sides it is thus put in a Vir??: (the >>> number ten). Being thus put in a Vir?? (in the number ten) >>> on both sides, this (Ekavi??a, i.e. the Sun) becomes not >>> disturbed in his course through these worlds." (Haug >>> 1977:288-289). >>> >>> Does anyone have other references to the Sun as the 21st, >>> and any other explanations for this other than these two >>> Brahmana explanations? >>> >>> Cheers >>> >>> James Hartzell, PhD^(2x) >>> Center for Mind/Brain Sciences (CIMeC) >>> The University of Trento, Italy >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ INDOLOGY >>> mailing list INDOLOGY at list.indology.info >>> >>> indology-owner at list.indology.info >>> (messages to the >>> list's managing committee) http://listinfo.indology.info >>> (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> INDOLOGY mailing list >> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info >> indology-owner at list.indology.info >> (messages to the >> list's managing committee) >> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list >> options or unsubscribe) >> >> > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From nmisra at gmail.com Tue Mar 22 05:26:54 2016 From: nmisra at gmail.com (Nityanand Misra) Date: Tue, 22 Mar 16 10:56:54 +0530 Subject: =?utf-8?B?UmU6IFtJTkRPTE9HWV0JRXhhbXBsZShzKSBvZiDigJjhuaNyL+Ckt+CljeCksOCljeKAmQ==?= In-Reply-To: <56E179B6.60906@fas.harvard.edu> Message-ID: Thank you, Prof. Ryan, Prof. Deshpande, and Prof. Cardona for your responses. I had been travelling and so could not respond earlier. Here are some quick comments. 1) ??u?r??am???n?m? is certainly a digitization error. The reading in Bh?gavata Pur??a 1.1.13 is ??u?r??am???n?m? with the palatal ???. The ?tmanepada is from ?j???rusm?d???? sana?? (A 1.3.57). 2) The RV example of ?aju?ran? is a non-Paninian form, the Paninian form being ?aju?anta? from the root ?ju?? pr?tisevanayo?? (DP 1288). The two non-Paninian features are the ?ru?? augment and the use of ?parasmaipada?. S?ya??c?rya explains the ?parasmaipada? by ?vyatyaya? (which would refer to ?vyatyayo bahulam?, A 3.1.85), and the ?ru?? by ?bahula? chandasi? (which would specifically be the rule 7.1.8). I have attached the snaps of the mantra and the commentary (Vaidic Samshodhan Mandal, 1935, Volume I). 3) I have not had the opportunity to cross-check the cited examples against published editions the ?atapatha Br?hma?a, hence I cannot comment on them now. 4) In a word boundary, a final ??? cannot occur in the Paninian system due to ?jhal?? ja?o'nte? (A 8.2.39) which will change a terminal ??? to a ??? Most likely, the examples of ??r? do not occur in the Paninian system. My interest to trace an attested form was partly because I wanted to see how the conjunct was printed in old books. It appears that the printing press where the Vaidic Samshodhan Mandal book was printed did not have a printing block for the glyph ??r? (quite possible given the conjunct is so rarely attested). The ?r? hook was put below the glyph for ???, which is unexpected: given the similarities between the glyphs for ?p? and ???, one would expect the glyph for ??r? to be similar to that of ?pr?, with a slanting diagonal line as seen in modern fonts. Perhaps manuscripts of RV would need to be seen to ascertain how the glyph was actually written by scribes before the use of printing presses in India. Thanks, Nityanand On 10 March 2016 at 19:12, Kevin M. Ryan wrote: > Dear Nityanand, > > Here are a few items I found in the GRETIL corpus: > > aju?ran (RV 1.71.1c) > pari?rita? (3x), pari?rayati (1x), mi?ram (?atapatha Br?hma?a) > zu?r??am???n?m (Bh?gavata Pur??a 1.1.13) > > It could also in principle be found across a word boundary, when a word is > left to stand with final ? (e.g. jyoti? rajas, Nirukta). > > Best, > Kevin > > > On 3/10/16 5:07 AM, Nityanand Misra wrote: > >> Dear list >> >> In Ulrich Stiehl?s list of 807 conjuncts attested in Sanskrit, the >> two-consonant conjunct ??r? (????) is listed as the 786th entry (third >> from left in last line of page 4 of the PDF under >> http://www.sanskritweb.net/sansdocs/mathe.pdf >> < >> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.sanskritweb.net_sansdocs_mathe.pdf&d=CwMFaQ&c=WO-RGvefibhHBZq3fL85hQ&r=NqkhTuN1wmPpoGV7HfN9h9sjzhrforkotCX8AEc5N5k&m=I2YYnpny_JHcilQBv0xpTkUgPu2gNjPwORPDYANfhnY&s=HkqxA0_r_eDluRij4xM7zMHZVLLHzba0JOX-99c58Ac&e= >> >). >> >> I have been unable to trace any word in which this conjunct would occur >> in Sanskrit. >> >> Prefix and infix expression search on Advanced search on Monier >> Williams, V?caspatyam, and ?abdakalpadruma? yielded no result (except >> for ???????? in M-W which has the three-syllable conjunct k?r) >> >> Does anybody know of an example of a word or verse/sentence in which the >> usage of this conjunct is attested? >> >> Thanks, Nityanand >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> INDOLOGY mailing list >> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info >> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing >> committee) >> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or >> unsubscribe) >> >> -- Nity?nanda Mi?ra http://nmisra.googlepages.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mallen at hsc.edu Tue Mar 22 13:37:36 2016 From: mallen at hsc.edu (Michael Allen) Date: Tue, 22 Mar 16 09:37:36 -0400 Subject: [INDOLOGY] CFP - Brahmavidya: The Adyar Library Bulletin Message-ID: Dear Colleagues, A colleague in Chennai has asked me to pass on a call for papers. See below. Best wishes, Michael S. Allen Assistant Professor of Religion Hampden-Sydney College Hampden-Sydney, VA, USA ????? The editors of *Brahmavidya: The Adyar Library Bulletin *invite submissions for their 2016-2017 issue. The deadline for submitting is April 30, 2016. Articles should be 10-20 pages, with international diacritical marks for transliterated words. Possible topics include Indian philosophy, aesthetics, history, archaeology, literature and religious studies. Papers should be submitted by email to . For more information on the Adyar Library and its publications, see . ????? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From harshadehejia at hotmail.com Tue Mar 22 18:55:19 2016 From: harshadehejia at hotmail.com (Harsha Dehejia) Date: Tue, 22 Mar 16 14:55:19 -0400 Subject: [INDOLOGY] India and Bharat Message-ID: Friends: I was sent this email and since I am not able too respond sufficiently I am taking the courage and liberty of sending it to you all. Appaentlty Vamsi is fighting to prevent India being lumped with South Asia in her University in California. Her questions are probing and sincere and she needs our support in her fight. Please respond to her directly at juluri at usfca.edu Kind regards, HarshaProf. Harsha V. Dehejia This is the email for Vamsi JuluriMay I request the historians in the group to share a few points if possible on the following so I could try and put it into a table? 1) What are the oldest references in Sanskrit literature to something like "Bharata"? What texts? What periods? What geographical spaces are referred to? 2) Are there other names for the Indian subcontinent in Indic texts? Did regional language literatures also have names of their own or was Bharata widely used? If so, from about when? (there's a lot of s asian bs in their letter accepted by the board on how india never had a sense of itself, no unity etc.) 3) What are some of the non-Indian names for India from ancient times? Roman/Greek texts, periods, names will be useful. Would anyone in the group also have an idea about Chinese/Korean/Japanese names ? What texts/periods? 4) Any other facts and anecdotes and citations that might be helpful. Thank you! Warmly VamseeVamsee Juluri, Ph.D. Professor of Media Studies, University of San FranciscoAuthor of Becoming a Global Audience: Longing and Belonging in Indian Music Television (Peter Lang), The Mythologist:A Novel (Penguin India), Bollywood Nation: India through its Cinema (Penguin India), Rearming Hinduism: Nature, Hinduphobia and the Return of Indian Intelligence (Westland, 2015) and The Guru Within (Westland, forthcoming) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Palaniappa at aol.com Tue Mar 22 19:59:23 2016 From: Palaniappa at aol.com (Sudalaimuthu Palaniappan) Date: Tue, 22 Mar 16 14:59:23 -0500 Subject: [INDOLOGY] India and Bharat In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Vamsi Juluri is not a ?she' but a ?he?. He is one of the prominent exponents of the Hindutva viewpoint in this country. Just take a look at the endorsers of his book on the back cover of the book ?Rearming Hinduism?. This fight between ?India? and ?South Asia? is a favorite of the Hindutva and especially Rajiv Malhotra. Should the Indology list be involved in this? See his article http://blogs.timesofindia.indiatimes.com/treasurehunt/it-is-time-to-speak-up-against-the-hinduphobia-of-foreign-writers-vamsee-juluri/ . On a positive note, I am glad somebody on the Hindutva side acknowledges the existence of regional languages and presumably they are Indian and they have a ?voice? too. The vision plan for Sanskrit said, "Sanskrit, it is acknowledged, is not just a language. It is the voice of India?s soul and wisdom. It is the link between India?s past and present. It has been the vehicle of Knowledge Tradition of Bharat.? [emphasis mine] Regards, Palaniappan > On Mar 22, 2016, at 1:55 PM, Harsha Dehejia wrote: > > Friends: > I was sent this email and since I am not able too respond sufficiently I am taking the courage and liberty of sending it to you all. Appaentlty Vamsi is fighting to prevent India being lumped with South Asia in her University in California. Her questions are probing and sincere and she needs our support in her fight. > > Please respond to her directly at juluri at usfca.edu > > Kind regards, > > Harsha > Prof. Harsha V. Dehejia > > > This is the email for Vamsi Juluri > May I request the historians in the group to share a few points if possible on the following so I could try and put it into a table? > > 1) What are the oldest references in Sanskrit literature to something like "Bharata"? What texts? What periods? What geographical spaces are referred to? > 2) Are there other names for the Indian subcontinent in Indic texts? Did regional language literatures also have names of their own or was Bharata widely used? If so, from about when? (there's a lot of s asian bs in their letter accepted by the board on how india never had a sense of itself, no unity etc.) > 3) What are some of the non-Indian names for India from ancient times? Roman/Greek texts, periods, names will be useful. Would anyone in the group also have an idea about Chinese/Korean/Japanese names ? What texts/periods? > 4) Any other facts and anecdotes and citations that might be helpful. > Thank you! > Warmly > Vamsee > Vamsee Juluri, Ph.D. > Professor of Media Studies, University of San Francisco > Author of Becoming a Global Audience: Longing and Belonging in Indian Music Television (Peter Lang), The Mythologist:A Novel (Penguin India), Bollywood Nation: India through its Cinema (Penguin India), Rearming Hinduism: Nature, Hinduphobia and the Return of Indian Intelligence? (Westland, 2015) and The Guru Within (Westland, forthcoming) > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From nmisra at gmail.com Wed Mar 23 01:09:23 2016 From: nmisra at gmail.com (Nityanand Misra) Date: Wed, 23 Mar 16 06:39:23 +0530 Subject: [INDOLOGY] India and Bharat In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Dear Dr. Palaniappan Regarding your point on acknowledging regional languages: the Rashtriya Swayamsevak Sangha (RSS) has been a proponent of regional languages for quite some time. Contrary to the perceptions of many, the RSS does not see Hindi as the sole language of India, but as a link language co-existing with regional languages. In the September 2015 edition of the *Panchajanya, *the official Hindi weekly published by the RSS, the editorial stated ?Hindi is not against India?s regional languages. This is a myth being perpetuated ....?[1] The lead article said: ?It (Hindi) will prosper along with other regional languages.?[1] Hindusthan Samachar, a news service affiliated with the RSS, provides news services in thirteen languages apart from Hindi: Hindi, Marathi, Gujrati, Nepali, Oriya, Asamiya, Kannad, Tamil, Malayalam, Telugu, Sindhi, Sanskrit, Punjabi and Bangla.[2] Most of these languages were added in 2014 (the agency was restarted in 2000 after a gap of 14 years). Regional languages are also one of the areas of focus in the ?inclusive Hinduism? of the Sangha.[4] [1] Press Trust of India (Sep 10 2015). Hindi can unite India, ?chase away? English: RSS organ. Indian Express. URL: http://indianexpress.com/article/india/india-others/hindi-can-unite-india-chase-away-english-rss-organ/#sthash.cBQ2BhoP.dpuf. Retrieved Mar 23 2015. [2] About Hindusthan Samachar (not dated). http://mh.hindusthansamachar.com/static/about.aspx. [3] Liz Matthew (Oct 28 2014). RSS news service launched in more regional languages. Indian Express. URL: http://indianexpress.com/article/india/india-others/rss-news-service-launched-in-more-regional-languages/#sthash.YGCU8hwK.dpuf. Retrieved Mar 23 2016. [4] Vasudha Venugopal (Mar 16 2015). RSS's Nagpur meet decides on inclusive Hinduism as key strategy for next 3 years. URL: http://articles.economictimes.indiatimes.com/2015-03-16/news/60174729_1_bhaiyyaji-joshi-rss-general-secretary-suresh-akhil-bharatiya-pratinidhi-sabha. Retrieved Mar 23 2016. On 23 March 2016 at 01:30, Sudalaimuthu Palaniappan via INDOLOGY < indology at list.indology.info> wrote: > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing > committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or > unsubscribe) > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > From: Sudalaimuthu Palaniappan > To: Harsha Dehejia > Cc: Indology List > Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2016 14:59:23 -0500 > Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] India and Bharat > Vamsi Juluri is not a ?she' but a ?he?. He is one of the prominent > exponents of the Hindutva viewpoint in this country. Just take a look at > the endorsers of his book on the back cover of the book ?Rearming > Hinduism?. This fight between ?India? and ?South Asia? is a favorite of the > Hindutva and especially Rajiv Malhotra. Should the Indology list be > involved in this? See his article > http://blogs.timesofindia.indiatimes.com/treasurehunt/it-is-time-to-speak-up-against-the-hinduphobia-of-foreign-writers-vamsee-juluri/ > . > > On a positive note, I am glad somebody on the Hindutva side acknowledges > the existence of regional languages and presumably they are Indian and they > have a ?voice? too. The vision plan for Sanskrit said, "Sanskrit, it is > acknowledged, is not just a language. It is the voice of India?s soul and > wisdom. It is the link between India?s past and present. It has been the > vehicle of Knowledge Tradition of Bharat.? [emphasis mine] > > Regards, > Palaniappan > > On Mar 22, 2016, at 1:55 PM, Harsha Dehejia > wrote: > > Friends: > I was sent this email and since I am not able too respond sufficiently I > am taking the courage and liberty of sending it to you all. Appaentlty > Vamsi is fighting to prevent India being lumped with South Asia in her > University in California. Her questions are probing and sincere and she > needs our support in her fight. > > Please respond to her directly at juluri at usfca.edu > > Kind regards, > > Harsha > Prof. Harsha V. Dehejia > > > This is the email for Vamsi Juluri > May I request the historians in the group to share a few points if > possible on the following so I could try and put it into a table? > > 1) What are the oldest references in Sanskrit literature to something like > "Bharata"? What texts? What periods? What geographical spaces are referred > to? > 2) Are there other names for the Indian subcontinent in Indic texts? Did > regional language literatures also have names of their own or was Bharata > widely used? If so, from about when? (there's a lot of s asian bs in their > letter accepted by the board on how india never had a sense of itself, no > unity etc.) > 3) What are some of the non-Indian names for India from ancient times? > Roman/Greek texts, periods, names will be useful. Would anyone in the group > also have an idea about Chinese/Korean/Japanese names ? What texts/periods? > 4) Any other facts and anecdotes and citations that might be helpful. > Thank you! > Warmly > Vamsee > Vamsee Juluri, Ph.D. > Professor of Media Studies, University of San Francisco > Author of *Becoming a Global Audience: Longing and Belonging in Indian > Music Television *(Peter Lang), *The Mythologist:A Novel *(Penguin India), > *Bollywood Nation: India through its Cinema *(Penguin India), *Rearming > Hinduism: Nature, Hinduphobia and the Return of Indian Intelligence * > (Westland, 2015) and *The Guru Within *(Westland, > forthcoming) > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing > committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or > unsubscribe) > > > > -- Nity?nanda Mi?ra http://nmisra.googlepages.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anurupa.n at ifpindia.org Thu Mar 24 09:21:31 2016 From: anurupa.n at ifpindia.org (Anurupa Naik) Date: Thu, 24 Mar 16 14:51:31 +0530 Subject: =?utf-8?Q?[INDOLOGY]_New_book_jointly_published_by_the_Institut_Fran=C3=A7ais_de_Pondich=C3=A9ry/Ecole_fran=C3=A7aise_d'Extr=C3=AAme-Orient/Asien-Afrika-Institut,_Universit=C3=A4t_Hamburg?= In-Reply-To: <56F3B126.4030500@ifpindia.org> Message-ID: <56F3B19B.6010406@ifpindia.org> *JUST RELEASED * */Tantric Studies. Fruits of a Franco-German project on Early Tantra./*** Edited by *Dominic Goodall* and *Harunaga Isaacson*, Collection Indologie n? 131; Early Tantra Series n? 4, Institut Fran?ais de Pondich?ry / Ecole fran?aise d?Extr?me-Orient / Asien-Afrika-Institut, Universit?t Hamburg, xxx, 305 p. Language: English. *800 Rs (35 *?*). *ISBN: 978-81-8470-211-8 (IFP) / 978-2-85539-220-2 (EFEO). The principal works that have emerged from our stimulating project on ?Early Tantra? are critical editions and translations of previously unpublished primary material, which have begun to appear in this new series. This volume complements those publications by gathering together some of the fruits, direct and indirect, of the wide-ranging discussions that took place during the project?s workshops.By way of introduction, the volume opens with an attempt by the editors to draw together our findings about the ?shared ritual syntax? of some of the earliest known works of the tantric traditions, with a particular emphasis on the Buddhist /Ma?ju?riyam?lakalpa/ and the ?aiva /Ni?v?satattvasa?hit?/. Seven further contributions, by Dominic Goodall, Peter Bisschop, Judit T?rzs?k, Diwakar Acharya, Anna A. ?l?czka, Libbie Mills and P?ter-D?niel Sz?nt?, throw light on a wide range of topics : the ?aiva/tattva/s and their evolution, /yogin?/-temples, alphabet-deities, an early treatise of snake-related magic, iconographic prescriptions in early /prati??h?tantra/s, the implications of the use of the /bh?tasa?khy?///system, and a fragment of a Buddhist tantric /s?dhana/. *Keywords:***Mantram?rga, Tantra, Magic, Iconography, Shaivism, Vajray?na, Goddess-worship, Ritual, Cosmography** ** *About the editors:* After studies in Oxford and in Hamburg, *Dominic Goodall* passed several years working in Pondicherry, where he was head of the Pondicherry Centre of the ?cole fran?aise d?Extr?me-Orient from 2002 to 2011. He has published critical editions of ?aiva works and of classical Sanskrit poetry (most recently, with Csaba Dezs?, the eighth-century /Ku??an?mata/ of D?modaragupta). After four years in Paris, where he gave lectures on Indian and Cambodian Sanskrit literature at the ?cole pratique des hautes ?tudes (religious science section), he is now back once again in Pondicherry. *Harunaga Isaacson*studied in Groningen (MA 1990) and was awarded a PhD in Sanskrit by the University of Leiden in 1995. After holding positions for research and teaching at the Universities of Oxford, Hamburg and Pennsylvania, he was appointed Professor of Classical Indology in the Department of Indian and Tibetan Studies, Asien-Afrika-Institut, Hamburg, in 2006. His main research areas are: tantric traditions in pre-13^th -century South Asia, especially Vajray?na Buddhism; classical Sanskrit poetry; classical Indian philosophy; and Pur??ic literature. *Contents* ** *Preface / Pr?face *vii /Dominic Goodall and Harunaga Isaacson/ ** *Abbreviations *xix ** *List of Figures *xxi ** *Notes on Contributors / ? propos des contributeurs *xxiii ** *1 On the Shared ?Ritual Syntax? of the Early Tantric* *Traditions*1 /Dominic Goodall and Harunaga Isaacson/ // *2How the Tattvas of Tantric ?aivism Came to Be 36: The* *Evidence of the **/Ni?v?satattvasa/**/?/**/hit? /*77 /Dominic Goodall/ ** *3A 12th-Century V?r?**?**as?m?h?tmya and Its Account of a* *Hypethral Yogin?-Temple *113 /Peter Bisschop/ ** *4The Emergence of the Alphabet Goddess M?t**?**k? in Early* *?aiva Tantras *135 /Judit T?rzs?k/ ** *5Three Fragmentary Folios of a 9th-Century Manuscript of an* *Early Bh?tatantra Taught by Mah?mahe?vara *157 /Diwakar Acharya/ ** *6 The Two Iconographic Chapters from the **/Devy?mata /**and* *the Art of Bengal *181 /Anna A. ?l?czka/ ** *7 **/Bh?tasa/**/?/**/khy?/**s as a Dating Tool for **/Prati/**/??/**/h?/* *Literature *247 /Libbie Mills/ ** *8Minor Vajray?na Texts I: A Fragment from* *Abhay?karagupta?s ?r?samvar?bhisamayop?yik? *261 /P?ter-D?niel Sz?nt?/ ** *Index *297 ** *Illustrations* *To order, please contact:* Institut Fran?ais de Pondich?ry P. B. 33, 11, St. Louis Street, Pondicherry -605001,INDIA Ph: +91-413-2231660 / 661. Fax: +91 413-2231605 E-mail: library at ifpindia.org Ecole fran?aise d?Extr?me-Orient P.O. Box 151,16 & 19, Dumas Street Pondicherry-605001, INDIA Ph: +91-413-2334539. Fax +91-413-2330886 E-mail: shanti at efeo-pondicherry.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From olga.nowicka00 at gmail.com Fri Mar 25 13:25:28 2016 From: olga.nowicka00 at gmail.com (Olga Nowicka) Date: Fri, 25 Mar 16 14:25:28 +0100 Subject: [INDOLOGY] PDF request: HOLY WARRIORS: A PRELIMINARY STUDY OF SOME BIOGRAPHIES OF SAINTS AND KINGS IN THE CLASSICAL INDIAN TRADITION Message-ID: Dear List, I would like to ask if anyone has perhaps the PDF of the article by Phyllis Granoff *HOLY WARRIORS: A PRELIMINARY STUDY OF SOME BIOGRAPHIES OF SAINTS AND KINGS IN THE CLASSICAL INDIAN TRADITION*? I would be very grateful for help. Best regards, Olga Nowicka -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From olga.nowicka00 at gmail.com Fri Mar 25 13:44:20 2016 From: olga.nowicka00 at gmail.com (Olga Nowicka) Date: Fri, 25 Mar 16 14:44:20 +0100 Subject: =?utf-8?Q?[INDOLOGY]_Another_PDF_request:_R=C4=81ma's_Bridge:_Some_Notes_on_Place_in_Medieval_India,_Real_and_Envisioned?= Message-ID: Dear List, And one more question: does anyone have perhaps also the PDF of the another article by Phyllis Granoff *R?ma's Bridge: Some Notes on Place in Medieval India, Real and Envisioned*? I would be very grateful for help. Best regards, Olga Nowicka -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lavanyavemsani at gmail.com Fri Mar 25 15:08:46 2016 From: lavanyavemsani at gmail.com (Lavanya Vemsani) Date: Fri, 25 Mar 16 11:08:46 -0400 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Call for papers: Uberoi Seminar at Shawnee State University Message-ID: Hello All, I am including the call for papers for the Uberoi conference we will be hosting at Shawnee State University this Fall. Hope you could join us. Thank you Lavanya Call for Papers Uberoi Seminar at Shawnee State University, OHIO, USA We are excited to announce that we will be hosting the interdisciplinary conference on Indian Cultural Heritage in the Global Age, which will take place at the Shawnee State University, Portsmouth, Ohio, during September 23-24, 2016. The conference brings together academic research on Indian history, its religious and cultural history. India is home to a number of religions such as Hinduism, Buddhism, and Jainism, collectively referred to as the Dharma traditions. In a global world, it is more than ever necessary to understand India, its cultural heritage and religions. Hence we seek papers on all aspects of Indian history, culture, and religions. We are especially seeking papers dedicated to Bhakti, Krishna, Balarama and modern Vaishnavism. Additionally, selected papers will be included in a collection of essays resulting from the conference. Please send a 250-word abstract in PDF format and brief (one paragraph maximum) bio to lavanyavemsani at gmail.com or lvemsani at shawnee.edu by April 24, 2016 (11:59 pm). Notifications of acceptance will be sent by June 29, 2016 and the program will be announced by August 29, 2016. -- *Dr. Lavanya Vemsani* Ph.D. History (Univ. of Hyderabad) & Ph.D. Religious Studies (McMaster Univ.) Distinguished University Professor of History, Department of Social Sciences *Shawnee State University* Portsmouth OH 45662 V:7403513233 F:7403513153 E:lvemsani at shawnee.edu Editor, *International Journal of Dharma and Hindu Studies* -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From chiara.policardi at gmail.com Sat Mar 26 10:30:22 2016 From: chiara.policardi at gmail.com (Chiara Policardi) Date: Sat, 26 Mar 16 11:30:22 +0100 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Pdf request Message-ID: Dear members of the list, I would be very grateful for a pdf of the following book: K. Krishna Murthy, *Mythical Animals in Indian Art*, Abhinav Publications, New Delhi, 1985. With many thanks in advance, Chiara Policardi -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From vjroebuck at btinternet.com Sat Mar 26 10:36:51 2016 From: vjroebuck at btinternet.com (Valerie Roebuck) Date: Sat, 26 Mar 16 10:36:51 +0000 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Pdf request In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <518B2810-9AAE-40EA-9D7E-2BBBF1054A4E@btinternet.com> If someone has got it, I would like a copy too. With thanks - Valerie J Roebuck Manchester, UK > On 26 Mar 2016, at 10:30, Chiara Policardi wrote: > > Dear members of the list, > > I would be very grateful for a pdf of the following book: > > K. Krishna Murthy, Mythical Animals in Indian Art, Abhinav Publications, New Delhi, 1985. > > With many thanks in advance, > Chiara Policardi > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dnreigle at gmail.com Sat Mar 26 13:01:46 2016 From: dnreigle at gmail.com (David and Nancy Reigle) Date: Sat, 26 Mar 16 07:01:46 -0600 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Pdf request In-Reply-To: Message-ID: According to a search at AddAll.com, this book is still in print and many copies are available, both new and used. I just ordered a copy. Best regards, David Reigle Colorado, U.S.A. On Sat, Mar 26, 2016 at 4:30 AM, Chiara Policardi < chiara.policardi at gmail.com> wrote: > Dear members of the list, > > I would be very grateful for a pdf of the following book: > > K. Krishna Murthy, *Mythical Animals in Indian Art*, Abhinav > Publications, New Delhi, 1985. > > With many thanks in advance, > Chiara Policardi > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing > committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or > unsubscribe) > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From saraspeyer at gmail.com Sun Mar 27 08:56:46 2016 From: saraspeyer at gmail.com (Sara Speyer) Date: Sun, 27 Mar 16 10:56:46 +0200 Subject: =?utf-8?Q?[INDOLOGY]_Ma=E1=B9=87im=C4=81l=C4=81_pdf?= Message-ID: Dear List Does anyone happen to have this book as a pdf? Tagore, Sourindro Mohun. 1879-1881. *Man?i-Ma?la?: A treatise on gems*. Calcutta: I. C. Bose & Co It is quite an old book, as you can see, with no reprints (as far as I know), so it is difficult to get hold of. Many Thanks! Sara Speyer MA student of Indology University of Copenhagen -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From H.J.H.Tieken at hum.leidenuniv.nl Sun Mar 27 09:08:54 2016 From: H.J.H.Tieken at hum.leidenuniv.nl (Tieken, H.J.H.) Date: Sun, 27 Mar 16 09:08:54 +0000 Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_[INDOLOGY]_Ma=E1=B9=87im=C4=81l=C4=81_pdf?= In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I typed in the title on google and found that part 1 is for sale with Bol.com. Herman Tieken Stationsweg 58 2515 BP Den Haag The Netherlands 00 31 (0)70 2208127 website: hermantieken.com ________________________________ Van: INDOLOGY [indology-bounces at list.indology.info] namens Sara Speyer [saraspeyer at gmail.com] Verzonden: zondag 27 maart 2016 10:56 Aan: INDOLOGY at list.indology.info Onderwerp: [INDOLOGY] Ma?im?l? pdf Dear List Does anyone happen to have this book as a pdf? Tagore, Sourindro Mohun. 1879-1881. Man?i-Ma?la?: A treatise on gems. Calcutta: I. C. Bose & Co It is quite an old book, as you can see, with no reprints (as far as I know), so it is difficult to get hold of. Many Thanks! Sara Speyer MA student of Indology University of Copenhagen -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jacob at fabularasa.dk Sun Mar 27 10:25:52 2016 From: jacob at fabularasa.dk (jacob at fabularasa.dk) Date: Sun, 27 Mar 16 12:25:52 +0200 Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_[INDOLOGY]_Ma=E1=B9=87im=C4=81l=C4=81_pdf?= In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <467ae01e6c1a1a832ab17218c1f45fd3@fabularasa.dk> Dear Sara, Both volumes are available for download at archive.org: Vol. I: https://archive.org/details/Mani-malaOrATreatiseOnGemsPartI Vol. II: https://archive.org/details/Mani-malaOrATreatiseOnGemsPartIi Best, Jacob Jacob Schmidt-Madsen PhD Fellow (Indology) Department of Cross-Cultural and Regional Studies University of Copenhagen Denmark Tieken, H.J.H. skrev den 2016-03-27 11:08: > I typed in the title on google and found that part 1 is for sale with > Bol.com. > > Herman Tieken > Stationsweg 58 > 2515 BP Den Haag > The Netherlands > 00 31 (0)70 2208127 > > website: hermantieken.com [1] > > ------------------------- > > VAN: INDOLOGY [indology-bounces at list.indology.info] namens Sara Speyer > [saraspeyer at gmail.com] > VERZONDEN: zondag 27 maart 2016 10:56 > AAN: INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > ONDERWERP: [INDOLOGY] Ma?im?l? pdf > > Dear List > > Does anyone happen to have this book as a pdf? > > Tagore, Sourindro Mohun. 1879-1881. _Man?i-Ma?la?: A treatise on > gems_. Calcutta: I. C. Bose & Co > > It is quite an old book, as you can see, with no reprints (as far as I > know), so it is difficult to get hold of. > > Many Thanks! > > Sara Speyer > MA student of Indology > University of Copenhagen > > Links: > ------ > [1] http://hermantieken.com/ > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing > committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options > or unsubscribe) From jm63 at soas.ac.uk Sun Mar 27 14:43:54 2016 From: jm63 at soas.ac.uk (James Mallinson) Date: Sun, 27 Mar 16 20:13:54 +0530 Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_[INDOLOGY]_N=C4=81gar=C4=ABprac=C4=81ri=E1=B9=87=C4=AB_Patrik=C4=81_article?= In-Reply-To: <56F03C02.80800@indica-et-buddhica.org> Message-ID: Dear Colleagues, With a better connection I discovered that the NPP volume I was looking for is in the Bodleian Library and I obtained a scan of the article in a few hours thanks to the Bodleian's excellent ?Scan and Deliver? service. I have uploaded a copy of it here: http://we.tl/gzrx249pdB . Yours, with best wishes, Jim > On 21 Mar 2016, at 23:52, Richard Mahoney | Indica et Buddhica wrote: > > Dear Jim, > > It looks like ILL through Hamburg may be a possibility, though Tokyo > looks more likely. > > > Scholia ~ Zeitschriftendatenbank (ZDB) > > Title = N?gar?prac?ri?? Patrik? and ZDB-ID = 4015708 > > http://scholia.indica-et-buddhica.org/search/zdb.sch?attribute=@attr%201=4&query=N%C4%81gar%C4%ABprac%C4%81ri%E1%B9%87%C4%AB%20Patrik%C4%81&attribute2=@attr%201=1007&query2=4015708&operator=@and&displayform=2&num=1&start=1 > > v. Holdings: Hamburg - only 62:1(1957)? check for others? > > > Scholia ~ NACSIS-CAT > > Title = N?gar?prac?ri?? Patrik? and NCID = AA11490621 > > http://scholia.indica-et-buddhica.org/search/nii.sch?attribute=@attr%201=4&query=N%C4%81gar%C4%ABprac%C4%81ri%E1%B9%87%C4%AB%20Patrik%C4%81&attribute2=@attr%201=12&query2=AA11490621&operator=@and&displayform=2&num=1&start=1 > > v. Holdings: The Library Tokyo University of Foreign Studies - 62. all? > > > > Best, R > > > > On 2016-03-21 16:17, James Mallinson wrote: >> Dear Colleagues, >> >> If anyone could point me towards or send me a pdf of an article by >> U.P.Shah entitled ?N?th Siddho? k? pr?c?na ?ilpam?rtiy?n?, >> N?gar?prac?ri?? Patrik? var?a 62 Vols. 2 and 3, pp. 174-202 (I am not >> sure of the year of publication), I would be most grateful. I have >> looked online, including the DLI, with no luck (albeit via my mobile >> while travelling in MP). >> >> Yours, with best wishes, >> >> Jim > > > > -- > Richard Mahoney | Indica et Buddhica > > Littledene Bay Road Oxford 7430 NZ > M: +64-21-064-0216 T: +64-3-312-1699 > r.mahoney at indica-et-buddhica.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mkapstei at uchicago.edu Mon Mar 28 15:08:16 2016 From: mkapstei at uchicago.edu (Matthew Kapstein) Date: Mon, 28 Mar 16 15:08:16 +0000 Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_[INDOLOGY]_N=C4=81gar=C4=ABprac=C4=81ri=E1=B9=87=C4=AB_Patrik=C4=81_article?= In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <82C3E42590D939418C74DD76B97DDED047B69178@xm-mbx-04-prod> Hello friends, If you go here, you'll find (mixed with much irrelevant material) some recent images of the Mahudi Gate in Dabhoi that may in some cases be an improvement over those in the article scan. It will take some hunting and pecking however..... https://www.google.fr/search?q=dabhoi+mahudi&sa=N&biw=1356&bih=794&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&ved=0ahUKEwi5r93E0-PLAhXL1xoKHRN0AZA4ChCwBAhH&dpr=0.9 best, Matthew Matthew Kapstein Directeur d'?tudes, Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes Numata Visiting Professor of Buddhist Studies, The University of Chicago ________________________________ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From karp at uw.edu.pl Wed Mar 30 05:14:05 2016 From: karp at uw.edu.pl (Artur Karp) Date: Wed, 30 Mar 16 07:14:05 +0200 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Revolving wheel in ancient Indian literature In-Reply-To: <56ECB1D8.4080900@berkeley.edu> Message-ID: Dear Colleagues I appreciate - very much - the pointers to the text of the RV and the BhP. *re: 360* It seems that in the later texts (already in the Mbh.) the number does not necessarily relate to the concept of the "ideal" solar year, numbering 360 civil days. Wouldn't it better fit the concept of the lunar year consisting of 12 synodic months, 30 tithis each? If one tithi is equal to 63/64 of one civil day (that is 0.984375d), then 360 tithis constitute the lunar year (360x0.984375 d), that is 354.375d and twelve synodic months, 29.53125d each. And, let me repeat the question: could the two serpents guarding the Wheel of the Year (Mbh. I, 29.5-7) symbolize the two equinoctial points? Regards, Artur 2016-03-19 2:56 GMT+01:00 Luis Gonzalez-Reimann : > Thanks, Mak. > > The ideal year of 360 days was carried over into the Puranic system of > kalpas, also known as days of Brahm?. A year of Brahm? lasts for 360 of his > days (along with their 360 nights). The duration of a kalpa in human years > is based on this year of 360 days. So is the 100-years duration of Brahm?'s > life, which, in turn, continues with the Vedic (already present in the > R?gveda) notion of 100 years as the ideal human lifetime. > > Luis > _____ > > > On 3/18/2016 5:48 PM, Bill Mak wrote: > > As far as the number 360 and the months are concerned, it should be noted > that there is the idea of s?vanam?sa or "civil month", which is an ideal > month consisted of exactly 30 days. Hence, 12 civil months would make up an > ideal year of 360 days. This notion is suggested in most older jyoti?a > texts, from Veda?gajyoti?a to Yavanaj?taka though not necessarily spelt out > explicitly and is not known to be applied in any known calendar in India. > Hence, among the uniquely Indian four types of months, one finds beside > saura (solar, c. 30.5 days), c?ndra (synodic, c. 29.5 days), n?k?atra > (sidereal, c. 27.3 days), but also s?vana (30 days). Kum?raj?va (4th > century) in his description of the Indian (Vedic) months gave the values of > these four months which are identical to VJ. YJ 79.11 gives definition of > s?vanam?sa (tri??addin?? s?vanam?sa) and the lord of the year system in YJ > 79.54 suggests also a year consisted of 360 days. > > Bill Mak > > -- > Bill M. Mak, PhD > Associate Professor > > Institute for Research in Humanities, Kyoto University > Yoshidahonmachi, Sakyo-ku, Kyoto, Japan 606-8501 > ?606-8501 ?????????? > ??????????? > > email: mak at zinbun.kyoto-u.ac.jp > Tel:+81-75-753-6961 <+81-75-753-6961> > Fax:+81-75-753-6903 > > copies of my publications may be found at: > http://www.billmak.com > > On 2016/03/19, at 6:54, Jean-Michel Delire wrote: > > I agree about the very common division of the year into 360 days (and > nights), plus 5 additive days (sometimes called epagomenoi). It also > existed in Ancient Egypt. On the other hand, the 12 months are not the 28 > days months, which are sideral months (the moon passes through all the > constellations/naksatras in about 27,5 days), but the synodic months during > which the moon goes from one relative position to the sun - by instance a > full moon - to the next similar position, through last quarter, new moon > and first quarter. The synodic duration, of 29,5 days approximately, is > much closer to 30 days. This was already known by the Vedanga Jyotisa, > although the duration of the year is 366 days in that case. > > Jean Michel Delire, University of Brussels > > > That's true Dominik, but we must consider that any tradition that counts > > the days in a year ends up with 360 days, a good divisible number, plus > > 5. It happens in Mesoamerican calendars, where those "extra" days are > > considered negative or empty. They are called /nemontemi/ in Nahuatl. > > > So a symbolical year of 360 plus days doesn't automatically mean that > > its origin is Mesopotamian. 360 can easily be divided by 12 to give 12 > > months, and this can be correlated with the 27/28 days in a lunar > > cycle/month. It is not a perfect fit, which is why most calendars end up > > being soli-lunar, with either extra months or days. But 360 is a good > > symbolical number in a decimal system in addition to its importance as a > > sexagesimal one. > > > Luis > > _____ > > > On 3/18/2016 12:17 PM, Dominik Wujastyk wrote: > > The reference to 360 spokes is a sexagesimal number expressed in > > decimal. This certainly points to the mathematical traditions of > > Mesopotamia. > > > -- > > Professor Dominik Wujastyk* > > Singhmar Chair in Classical Indian Society and Polity > > Department of History and Classics > > > > University of Alberta, Canada > > > On 18 March 2016 at 08:52, George Thompson > >> wrote: > > > Hello all, > > > Madhav's passage is RV 1.164.11. By chance, I've been looking at > > this hymn today. > > > George Thompson > > > On Fri, Mar 18, 2016 at 9:04 AM, Madhav Deshpande > > < mmdesh at umich.edu >> wrote: > > > The idea of a rotating wheel of time goes all the way back to > > the Rigveda: dv?da??ra? na hi taj jar?ya vavarti cakram pari > > dy?m ?tasya (don't have the textual ref at hand). The idea of > > the spokes of the wheel going up and down is referred to in > > Sanskrit lit in many places with expressions like > > cakra-nemi-krama and cakr?rapa?kti. > > > Madhav Deshpande > > > On Fri, Mar 18, 2016 at 8:42 AM, Artur Karp > < mailto:karp at uw.edu.pl >> wrote: > > > Dear List, > > > Mahabharata I, 29. 2-5 and Sumangalavilasini > > (Buddhaghosa's commentary to Mahaparinibbana-sutta) VI, > > 26 contain images of a revolving wheel (with 360? > > spokes), guarded by figures with swords in hands, and by > > two serpents. Vi?vakarma/Vissakamma is mentioned as the > > wheel's constructor. > > > Is that - or similar - image present somewhere else in the > > ancient Indian literature? > > > Thanks in advance for your comments - > > > Artur Karp > > > South Asian Studies Deptt (emeritus), University of > > Warsaw, Poland > > > _______________________________________________ > > INDOLOGY mailing list > > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > > < > mailto:INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > > > > indology-owner at list.indology.info > > < > mailto:indology-owner at list.indology.info > > (messages to > > the list's managing committee) > > http://listinfo.indology.info > (where you can change your > > list options or unsubscribe) > > > > > > -- > > Madhav M. Deshpande > > Professor of Sanskrit and Linguistics > > Department of Asian Languages and Cultures > > 202 South Thayer Street, Suite 6111 > > The University of Michigan > > Ann Arbor, MI 48104-1608, USA > > > _______________________________________________ > > INDOLOGY mailing list > > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info < > mailto:INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > > > > indology-owner at list.indology.info > > < > mailto:indology-owner at list.indology.info > > (messages to the > > list's managing committee) > > http://listinfo.indology.info > (where you can change your list > > options or unsubscribe) > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > INDOLOGY mailing list > > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > > > indology-owner at list.indology.info > > < > mailto:indology-owner at list.indology.info > > (messages to the list's > > managing committee) > > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list > > options or unsubscribe) > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > INDOLOGY mailing list > > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing > committee) > > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or > unsubscribe) > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing > committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or > unsubscribe) > > > > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing > committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or > unsubscribe) > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bill.m.mak at gmail.com Wed Mar 30 14:39:51 2016 From: bill.m.mak at gmail.com (Bill Mak) Date: Wed, 30 Mar 16 20:09:51 +0530 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Sanskrit in India In-Reply-To: <6B880CFE-43FA-4D26-99C5-182256F8C64C@ivs.edu> Message-ID: <0B8B67F5-DB51-4744-A688-A76A633C20A8@gmail.com> Thank you, Howard, for the "Vision and Road Map". I just spent ten days in Sikkim and had the chance to visit half a dozen P??ha??la and a Government Sanskrit college, meeting school principals, teachers and students, so I am very curious to learn more about this subject. I was quite surprised by the diversity - source of funding (government, RSS, or private), degree of emphasis on oral Sanskrit, incorporation of other regular school subjects, daily routine, practice of recitation, learning of ritual performance, etc. Does anyone know if there is a more comprehensive report, or a thesis on this subject, with basic stats such as breakdown of number of schools by states? -- Bill M. Mak Institute for Research in Humanities, Kyoto University Yoshidahonmachi, Sakyo-ku, Kyoto 606-8501 ?606-8501 ?????????? ??????????? Tel:+81-75-753-6961 Fax:+81-75-753-6903 copies of my publications may be found at: http://www.billmak.com On 2016/03/21, at 17:44, Howard Resnick wrote: > Here is the government report on teaching Sanskrit in India. > > <2016_02_12_Vision_and_Road_Map_for_the_Development_of_Sanskrit_Ten_year_perspective_Plan..pdf>_______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rembert at ochs.org.uk Wed Mar 30 15:33:14 2016 From: rembert at ochs.org.uk (Rembert Lutjeharms) Date: Wed, 30 Mar 16 16:33:14 +0100 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Middle Bengali Retreat Aug 2016 Message-ID: (The organisers asked me to forward this announcement for a Middle Bengali Retreat to the list. For more information, please use the contact details in the attached file. Best wishes, Rembert) --- Dear All, A Middle Bengali retreat-cum-workshop is being held at Sapientia - Hungarian University of Transylvania from 11 - 21 August 2016. The retreat will bring together scholars and advanced students of Middle Bengali to read and discuss texts on which a specialist is working. Please see the attached poster and webpage (http://ghtk.csik.sapientia.ro/en/news/middle-bengali-retreat-cum-workshop-in-transylvania-2016) for more details. With best wishes, Lucian Wong DPhil Candidate Faculty of Theology and Religion University of Oxford -- Dr. Rembert Lutjeharms Oxford Centre for Hindu Studies 13-15 Magdalen Street Oxford OX1 3AE United Kingdom Tel.: +44 (0)1865 304300 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: MiddleBengaliRetreatPoster.pdf Type: application/pdf Size: 148720 bytes Desc: not available URL: From wujastyk at gmail.com Wed Mar 30 23:20:39 2016 From: wujastyk at gmail.com (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Wed, 30 Mar 16 17:20:39 -0600 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Sanskrit in India In-Reply-To: <0B8B67F5-DB51-4744-A688-A76A633C20A8@gmail.com> Message-ID: ?There are some amazing colonial reports about such rural education? institutions. The most famous and striking is *Adam's Reports*: @Book{adam-adam, author = {William Adam}, editor = {J. Long}, title = {Adam's Reports on Vernacular Education in {Bengal} and {Behar}, Submitted to {Government} in 1835, 1836 and 1838, With a Brief View of its Past and Present Condition by \ldots\ J. Long}, year = {1868}, publisher = {Home Secretariat Press}, address = {Calcutta}, timestamp = {2010.03.16}, url = {https://archive.org/details/adamsreportsonve00adam} } ?@Book{leit-hist, author = {Leitner, Gottlieb William}, title = {History of Indigenous Education in the {Panjab} Since Annexation and in 1882}, year = {1982}, publisher = {Amar Prakashan}, address = {Delhi}, location = {Oxford}, note = {First Published in Calcutta: Government printing, 1882.}, timestamp = {2010.03.16} }? ?Reading these reports, I first realized the sheer scale of the traditional educational establishment in India ?that the British Indian government dismantled through the dissolution of Trusts and the redirection of taxation to Calcutta. After destroying the village-level education system, they worked on the principle that apex educational institutions in Calcutta would have a trickle-down effect, seeding new institutions across Bengal, the Panjab and beyond. We all know how well that worked. Adam's reports in particular make very sad reading. Adam pleaded for the protection and strengthening of indigenous education, and gave excellent reasons for doing so. But Adam's enlightened recommendations were swept aside by the benighted policies Macaulay and Bentinck. -- Professor Dominik Wujastyk* Singhmar Chair in Classical Indian Society and Polity Department of History and Classics University of Alberta, Canada -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mkapstei at uchicago.edu Thu Mar 31 04:57:12 2016 From: mkapstei at uchicago.edu (Matthew Kapstein) Date: Thu, 31 Mar 16 04:57:12 +0000 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Sanskrit in India In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <82C3E42590D939418C74DD76B97DDED047B69AE4@xm-mbx-04-prod> Thank you for this valuable reference, Dominik. I have a question in regard to Bill Mak's post to this thread: what on earth is Sanskrit doing in Sikkim? The native Lepcha population never used Sanskrit, and the Tibetans who became the dominant class only used it in Tibetan ornamental contexts, as transmitted in Tibetan education. The now predominant Nepali population was mostly drawn from the Hill Tribes, who, though nominally Hindu, were not at all involved in Sanskritic culture (except indirectly, for instance when they visited temples such as Pasupatinath when on pilgrimage and received the services of Brahmans there). So what accounts for the development of Sanskrit colleges in Sikkim? Who is served by them? best, Matthew Matthew Kapstein Directeur d'?tudes, Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes Numata Visiting Professor of Buddhist Studies, The University of Chicago ________________________________ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bill.m.mak at gmail.com Thu Mar 31 13:23:24 2016 From: bill.m.mak at gmail.com (Bill Mak) Date: Thu, 31 Mar 16 22:23:24 +0900 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Sanskrit in India In-Reply-To: <82C3E42590D939418C74DD76B97DDED047B69AE4@xm-mbx-04-prod> Message-ID: <04B4C4FD-7B4D-405B-95CC-75461C042B35@gmail.com> Many thanks to Dominik indeed for the important resource. The way the Sanskrit curriculum in different regions was documented is truly exemplary, and as Dominik remarked, also sad to see at the same time given the state they are in now. As for Matthew's question, indeed I too was intrigued. I also had the impression that there should not be much Sanskrit culture in Sikkim. All the 12 p??ha??las, mostly in East Sikkim, including the Govt Sanskrit College in Samdong are new, established after the annexation in 1975. The Nepali are often portrayed as migrant workers in late 19th century and latecomers after the Bhutia and Lepcha. While there have been waves of migrants, there were certainly older Nepali-speaking communities before the 19th century. I was shown a few private collections of manuscripts, all dated late 18th and early 19th century with Sikkimese place names in the colophons. Sikkim before the annexation seemed to have a policy that discouraged or possibly suppressed the establishment of Sanskrit p??ha??las or anything related to the Hindu culture. For that reason, the Nepalese community used to send their Brahmin children to West Bengal for education. The Lingse p??ha??la was established in 1946 just at the border and a few generations of Sanskrit-speaking Sikkimese Brahmins were trained there. Many of them are now teachers in the p??ha??las across Sikkim. Now the Sikkimese Brahmins do not need to send their children across the border to get Sanskrit education, the Lingse p??ha??la's role has changed and has become a regional center attracting students from East Nepal, West Bengal and even Bhutan. It is a very curious place with over 50 young students. When I was staying there, the young students spoke to me in Sanskrit and a few of them were even studying jyoti?a. I have collected quite a bit of materials during my visit of all the p??ha??las and hope to write a small article on this. I also participated in a very elaborate 8-hour navagraha??ntip?ja in a private temple. Since I have seen many graha??nti manuscripts in Kathmandu as well as at least one in a local Sikkimese archive, the Hindu ritual appears local. Rather ironically, Sanskrit seems to be enjoying a revival in Sikkim due to the current pro-Hindu government policy, in contrast to the suppression in the past. The number of Hindu mandirs seems to be growing faster than Tibetan monasteries and the government is giving out small pieces of land everywhere for such purpose. The Lepchas I have come across are almost all Christians. In Gangtok and most villages I past through, I find small churches and Christian signs like "Christ has risen", in fact more often than anything Buddhist. I was expecting to see more lamas and monasteries. I believe the religious landscape of Sikkim is shifting rapidly. Regards, Bill -- Bill M. Mak, PhD Associate Professor Institute for Research in Humanities, Kyoto University Yoshidahonmachi, Sakyo-ku, Kyoto, Japan 606-8501 ?606-8501 ?????????? ??????????? email: mak at zinbun.kyoto-u.ac.jp Tel:+81-75-753-6961 Fax:+81-75-753-6903 copies of my publications may be found at: http://www.billmak.com On 2016/03/31, at 13:57, Matthew Kapstein wrote: > Thank you for this valuable reference, Dominik. > > I have a question in regard to Bill Mak's post to this thread: what on earth is Sanskrit doing > in Sikkim? The native Lepcha population never used Sanskrit, and the Tibetans who became the > dominant class only used it in Tibetan ornamental contexts, as transmitted in Tibetan education. > The now predominant Nepali population was mostly drawn from the Hill Tribes, who, though > nominally Hindu, were not at all involved in Sanskritic culture (except indirectly, for instance when they visited > temples such as Pasupatinath when on pilgrimage and received the services of Brahmans there). > > So what accounts for the development of Sanskrit colleges in Sikkim? Who is served by them? > > best, > Matthew > > Matthew Kapstein > Directeur d'?tudes, > Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes > > Numata Visiting Professor of Buddhist Studies, > The University of Chicago -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Michael.Slouber at wwu.edu Thu Mar 31 21:06:26 2016 From: Michael.Slouber at wwu.edu (Michael Slouber) Date: Thu, 31 Mar 16 21:06:26 +0000 Subject: [INDOLOGY] ASME Books for Review Message-ID: <68E7F536-48CF-46B6-A408-516C6553ECDB@wwu.edu> Dear Indologists, (Please reply off-list!) I am seeking book reviews for the journal Asian Medicine: Tradition and Modernity. The following books relating to South Asian medicine are currently in need of review: Costa, Palmira Fontes da (2015). Medicine, Trade and Empire: Garcia de Orta?s Colloquies on the Simples and Drugs of India (1563) in Context. Ashgate. Das, Debjani (2015). Houses of Madness: Insanity and Asylums of Bengal in Nineteenth-Century India. Oxford University Press India. Ecks, Stefan (2014). Eating Drugs: Psychopharmaceutical Pluralism in India. NYU Press. Ferrari, Fabrizio (2015). Religion, Devotion And Medicine In North India: The Healing Power Of Sitala. Bloomsbury. Fields, Gregory P. (2014) Religious Therapeutics: Body and Health in Yoga, Ayurveda, and Tantra. SUNY Press. Sieler, Roman (2015). Lethal Spots, Vital Secrets: Medicine and Martial Arts in South India. Oxford University Press. Zysk, Kenneth (2016) The Indian System of Human Marks (2 vols). Brill. Our regular book reviews should be between 700 and 1000 words, but there is also the option for shorter book notes (up to 500 words) and essay reviews (over 2,000 words) depending on the particular requirements of the book in question. Expected turn-around time is normally 90 days. Those interested should reply off-list to Michael.Slouber at wwu.edu. Please include your name and full mailing address, and a few sentences about your qualifications to review the book or books. Best, Michael ?? Michael Slouber Assistant Professor of South Asia Department of Liberal Studies Western Washington University -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: