[INDOLOGY] Numbers --- # 1

Sun Jun 19 04:40:46 UTC 2016

The following is found at

https://www.reddit.com/r/Buddhism/comments/48e22q/significance_of_84000/

>From Ch'an And Zen Teaching: First Series
<http://wenshuchan-online.weebly.com/charles-luks-translations.html>
Description below is seen in one of the footnotes to Hanshan's commentary
on Diamond Sutra.

The number 8 is a symbol of the Eighth Consciousness or alaya—vijnana and 4
of the four forms (laksana) of ego, being, personality and life. Together
they imply the Eighth Consciousness held in bondage by the four forms, i.e.
Space. The long line of zeros is a symbol of Time, and so long as one
remains deluded it is immaterial to add 10 or 1,000 more zeros at the end
of the line. The Buddha was still under delusion when he met Dipamkara
Buddha, but when he attained enlightenment, the digits 8 and 4 were
instantly transmuted into the Great Mirror Wisdom and the Dharma—kaya
respectively, and the long line of zeros became meaningless. Thus, space
and time were wiped out in an instant (ksana).

The same website has the following too:

Taken loosely, it means 'many'. There is a sense of completion to it; i.e.,
that the number accounts for every kind of affliction and every kind of
corresponding wisdom. For each of the many various afflictions of mind,
there is a medicine, a corresponding teaching and practice.

More specifically, there are said to be 21,000 particular manifestations of
each of the Three Poisons (craving, aversion, dullness or greed, anger,
ignorance) and 21,000 manifestations of all three together.

http://84000.co/insights-from-a-teacher-an-interview-with-dilgo-yangsi-khyentse-rinpoche/

has a detailed explanation on almost the lines of the first above.

The first para of the second above is seconded by the following at

http://www.dharmanet.org/coursesM/Shin/JodoShinshu2.htm

Because Sakyamuni Buddha taught in a very personal manner, it is said that
he gave 84,000 messages during his lifetime. The number 84,000 is probably
arbitrary. However, it is meant to convey the idea that the Buddha
exhausted all the possible ways for humanity to reach enlightenment. The
number of paths is an expression of the universality of the Buddha-Dharma.
Within the 84,000 paths, one path is most suited to you. This is the
expression of the personal aspect of the Buddha-Dharma. In other words,
these 84,000 paths will allow everyone to become a Buddha. Taken together,
the 84,000 paths are what has is known as the Dharma; the Truth to which a
Buddha becomes Enlightened.

On Sun, Jun 19, 2016 at 6:41 AM, Ruth Satinsky Sieber <Ruth.Satinsky at unil.ch
> wrote:

> Dear Artur,
>
> I have researched the number 84,000 extensively and have never come across
> any explanation whatsoever of its meaning in Buddhist, Jaina or Brahmanical
> texts.
>
> However, on p. 3 fn11 of my article cited by Lubomir below, I mention the
> following:
>
> W. Randolf Kloetzli (personal communication, 13 December 2011) has
> speculated that the number 84,000
> could be “derived from some formula for relating the seven planets to the
> twelve signs of the zodiac (7 . 12 =
> 84).” John Brockington (personal communication, 8 January 2012) has
> proposed that the number eighty-four
> represents the seven days of the week multiplied by the twelve months of
> the year. The number seven, he says, is
> prominent with the Ājīvikas, and important in the Iranian tradition, where
> one finds the concept of the week
> very strong. Walther Schubring 1935/1962/2000: 28 has stated: “it should
> be remembered that the figure of
> eighty-four or either of its plurals frequently appear with the Jains and
> elsewhere where they only fail to give
> precise details for something founded on fact.”
>
>
> Whatever the case, I would not be inclined to see it as a numerical game.
>
>
> Ruth Satinsky
>
>
>
> Dear Lubomir,
>
> Thank you for the link. But - but I do not find in the paper the answer
> for the question --- why, ultimately, eighty-four?
>
> The inner structure of the number: 7 x 12
>
> Is it a result of some numerological game?
>
> Best,
>
> Artur
>
> 2016-06-18 22:51 GMT+02:00 Lubomir Ondracka <ondracka at ff.cuni.cz>:
>
>> Dear Artur,
>>
>> on the number 84 000 in Buddhist (and Jaina) sources, see this very
>> interesting study:
>> Ruth Satinsky, "What can the lifespans of Ṛṣabha, Bharata, Śreyāṃsa, and
>> Ara tell us about the History of the concept of Mount Meru?", International
>> Journal of Jaina Studies 11.1 (2015) 1-24.
>>
>> It is available on-line:
>> https://www.soas.ac.uk/research/publications/journals/ijjs/file100251.pdf
>>
>> Lubomir
>>
>>
>> On Sat, 18 Jun 2016 14:12:55 +0200
>> Artur Karp <karp at uw.edu.pl> wrote:
>>
>> > Dear List,
>> >
>> > *84 000*.
>> >
>> > The number appears in Buddhist texts, most intensively in the
>> > *Sudassana-sutta*, where it serves to contain in itself the final,
>> perfect,
>> > model shape of reality - in its various perceivable aspects .
>> >
>> > In the Buddhaghosa's *Sumangala-vilasini* Asoka plans to divide the
>> relics
>> > of the Buddha into 84 000 portions, to be placed in 84 000 stupas -
>> planned
>> > to be built throughout his kingdom.
>> >
>> > Is there somewhere in the Buddhist tradition a mention of the idea of
>> *human
>> > body* numbering 84 000 elements?
>> >
>> > Why 84 000? And not, for example - 100 000?
>> >
>> > Thanking you in advance,
>> >
>> > Artur Karp (ret.)
>> > Chair of South Asian Studies
>> > University of Warsaw
>> > Poland
>>
>
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-- 
Nagaraj Paturi

Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.

Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies

FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of  Liberal Education,

(Pune, Maharashtra, INDIA )

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