[INDOLOGY] Jati as Caste in Nyaya?

[Olivelle, J P]

Thanks, John.

Patrick



On Jun 16, 2016, at 3:36 PM, John Taber <jataber at unm.edu<mailto:jataber at unm.edu>> wrote:

See Mahābhāṣya 2.2.6 (Kielhorn, vol. 1, p. 411, lines 16ff).

Cheers,
John Taber

On Jun 16, 2016, at 1:50 PM, "Olivelle, J P" <jpo at austin.utexas.edu<mailto:jpo at austin.utexas.edu>>
 wrote:

There is also a passage in Patañjali about the physical characteristics of a Brahmin (tawny hair etc.). I cannot remember the reference, but perhaps Madhav Deshpande or someone can give the reference.



On Jun 16, 2016, at 1:41 PM, Donald R Davis <drdj at austin.utexas.edu<mailto:drdj at austin.utexas.edu>> wrote:

My thanks to Sam Wright who pointed me to the following:

Wilhelm Halbfass, “Homo Hierarchicus: The Conceptualization of the Varna System in Indian Thought,” in Tradition and Reflecton. SUNY Press, 1991. [contains a long discussion of the jati as caste and as universal in the works of several authors, including Jayanta and, especially, Kumarila on pp. 363ff.]

Samuel Wright, "History in the Abstract: ‘Brahman-ness’ and the Discipline of Nyaya in Seventeenth-Century Varanasi.” Journal of Indian Philosophy, forthcoming.

The issue is discussed on page 204 in Sukla, S. N. (Ed.). (1971). Nyāyamañjarī of Jayanta Bhaṭṭa (Part I). The Kashi Sanskrit Series 106, Nyaya Section No. 15. Varanasi: Chowkhamba Sanskrit Series Office.

Best, Don

From: INDOLOGY <indology-bounces at list.indology.info<mailto:indology-bounces at list.indology.info>> on behalf of Johannes Bronkhorst <johannes.bronkhorst at unil.ch<mailto:johannes.bronkhorst at unil.ch>>
Date: Thursday, June 16, 2016 at 11:40 AM
To: rajam <rajam at earthlink.net<mailto:rajam at earthlink.net>>
Cc: Dominik Wujastyk <wujastyk at gmail.com<mailto:wujastyk at gmail.com>>, "indology at list.indology.info<mailto:indology at list.indology.info>" <indology at list.indology.info<mailto:indology at list.indology.info>>
Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] J?ti as Caste in Ny?ya?

Vincent Eltschinger’s « Caste » et philosophie bouddhique (Vienna 2000) seems relevant in this connection. An English version of this book is also available:
Caste and Buddhist Philosophy: Continuity of Some Buddhist Arguments Against the Realist Interpretation of Social Denominations (Motilal Banarsidass 2012)
Johannes

On 16 juin 2016, at 18:37, rajam <rajam at earthlink.net<mailto:rajam at earthlink.net>> wrote:

Many thanks to the originator of this thread!

Right now, I just want to register the fact that I’m very much interested in this topic.

Last year (May 2015), I had a publication (in Tamil) about references to, or a lack there of, “jāti” and “caste” (as we understand it today) in Old Tamil literature/grammar, also known as Sangam literature/grammar.

I don’t know how many of you are aware of the fact that the English word “caste” has its origin in the Portuguese word “casta,” which was first recorded in Arte da Lingua Malabar written by Fr. Henrique Henriques in the mid-16th century.

If one wants to dig deep into the understanding of the terms such as “jāti” and “caste” … one has to have a minimal understanding of the origins of the Western contact with India, which happened in the early 16-th century through Portuguese arrival in South India.

Thanks and regards,
V.S.Rajam


On Jun 16, 2016, at 8:53 AM, Dominik Wujastyk <wujastyk at gmail.com<mailto:wujastyk at gmail.com>> wrote:

​Dear Don,

This interests me a lot, and I'd be grateful to read what you might write about it in future.  It's on my back-burner, but I've long wondered whether Sanskritic narratives about jati and varna can be thought about in ways similar to eighteenth and nineteenth century European narratives about races and species.  Were people of different varnas formally considered to be of different "species?"   It's a bit shocking to think in these terms, but I've been wondering about it.  If you ever put flesh on these bones, one way or another, or can point me to existing discussions on this, I'd be really interested.

Best,
Dominik

--
Professor Dominik Wujastyk*<http://ualberta.academia.edu/DominikWujastyk>
Singhmar Chair in Classical Indian Society and Polity
Department of History and Classics<http://historyandclassics.ualberta.ca/>
University of Alberta, Canada

On 16 June 2016 at 08:53, Donald R Davis <drdj at austin.utexas.edu<mailto:drdj at austin.utexas.edu>> wrote:
Dear Colleagues,

I would be grateful for additional references to an argument mentioned in Jayanta Bhatta’s Āgamaḍambara 4.143-4 (in Dezso’s edition in the Clay series).  The question is whether the jāti of Brahmins, etc. is like the jāti of cow-ness, etc. in being empirically observable or directly perceivable.  Jayanta refers to those who say that verbal/textual testimony alone (śabdamātreṇa) establishes the four-varṇa system.  This prefigures an argument made in Vijñāneśvara’s Mitākṣarā (on Yaj 1.90) where the same distinction is drawn to refute an objection.

I assumed Jayanta would have made a similar argument in his Nyāyamañjarī, but I have not been able to locate it (probably because I barely know the Nyāya literature).  If anyone could point me toward other instances of this issue, whether in original sources or contemporary research, I’d appreciate it.

Best,

Don Davis
Dept of Asian Studies
University of Texas at Austin

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