From rajam at earthlink.net  Wed Jun  1 00:01:07 2016
From: rajam at earthlink.net (rajam)
Date: Tue, 31 May 16 17:01:07 -0700
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Caste system and Buddhism
In-Reply-To: <E6CD052B-B006-434C-B339-FFACC84498DC@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <9E72BE9F-CA50-4AD3-9946-FFC3EC3C3F2E@earthlink.net>

Thanks! And yet, it?s not clear to me what actions were considered ?good? what actions were considered ?bad? ? and so on.

>From the buddhist epic Manimekalai we learn about the ethics of ?pancha ??la? ? that is to avoid drinking, theft, passion/desire, murder, lying. That?s about it. Is that what?s implied in saying ?actions/deeds?"

> On May 31, 2016, at 4:49 PM, Dan Lusthaus <prajnapti at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> The Pali term being translated as ?deeds? is kamma (Skt. karma). What you do, your actions, is what makes us different. All actions.
> 
> Dan Lusthaus
>  
>>  'all are the same by birth and differ by their deeds?.
>> 
>> However, I?ve never been able to find out what those deeds are!
> 



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From karp at uw.edu.pl  Wed Jun  1 05:37:29 2016
From: karp at uw.edu.pl (Artur Karp)
Date: Wed, 01 Jun 16 07:37:29 +0200
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Drops of amrita
Message-ID: <CALNcvFvpdiFzZkdt=paFtA0+tPfstjE5VPFNiGq6iUsh6E2YcA@mail.gmail.com>

Dear Colleagues,

Which text(s) describe Garuda losing four drops of amrita - while flying
over the four places where the faithful celebrate Kumbha-Melas (Haridwar,
Prayaga, Nashik, Ujjain)?

Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kumbh_Mela#Mythological_origin)
states:

"While several ancient texts, including the various Puranas
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Puranas>, mention the *samdura manthan*
legend, none of them mentions spilling of the amrita at four places.[8]
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kumbh_Mela#cite_note-KM_2003-8> Neither do
these texts mention the Kumbh Mela. Therefore, multiple scholars, including
R. B. Bhattacharya, D. P. Dubey and Kama Maclean believe that the *samudra
manthan* legend has been applied to the Kumbh Mela relatively recently, in
order to show scriptural authority for it."

Is Wikipedia right?

Best,

Artur Karp (ret.)
University of Warsaw
Poland


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From ondracka at ff.cuni.cz  Wed Jun  1 08:01:56 2016
From: ondracka at ff.cuni.cz (Lubomir Ondracka)
Date: Wed, 01 Jun 16 10:01:56 +0200
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Drops of amrita
In-Reply-To: <CALNcvFvpdiFzZkdt=paFtA0+tPfstjE5VPFNiGq6iUsh6E2YcA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20160601100156.cf0450a274e635492abafb2a@ff.cuni.cz>

Dear Artur,

yes, I believe that this information is right. 

D. P. Dube has studied Prayaga and Kumbhmela in depth and he has published a number of papers and books on this topic. He is a reliable author familiar with all relevant textual sources, thus I would take his conclusion (on four drops of amrta as a late addition) seriously.

As far as I know, all other scholars writing on Kumbhmela depend on his work (e.g. Kama Maclean: Pilgrimage and power, OUP 2008, pp. 87-88; Diana Eck: India: A sacred geography, Harmony 2012, pp. 152-156).

Best,
Lubomir


On Wed, 1 Jun 2016 07:37:29 +0200
Artur Karp <karp at uw.edu.pl> wrote:

> Dear Colleagues,
> 
> Which text(s) describe Garuda losing four drops of amrita - while flying
> over the four places where the faithful celebrate Kumbha-Melas (Haridwar,
> Prayaga, Nashik, Ujjain)?
> 
> Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kumbh_Mela#Mythological_origin)
> states:
> 
> "While several ancient texts, including the various Puranas
> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Puranas>, mention the *samdura manthan*
> legend, none of them mentions spilling of the amrita at four places.[8]
> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kumbh_Mela#cite_note-KM_2003-8> Neither do
> these texts mention the Kumbh Mela. Therefore, multiple scholars, including
> R. B. Bhattacharya, D. P. Dubey and Kama Maclean believe that the *samudra
> manthan* legend has been applied to the Kumbh Mela relatively recently, in
> order to show scriptural authority for it."
> 
> Is Wikipedia right?
> 
> Best,
> 
> Artur Karp (ret.)
> University of Warsaw
> Poland





From mailmealakendudas at rediffmail.com  Thu Jun  2 09:16:49 2016
From: mailmealakendudas at rediffmail.com (alakendu das)
Date: Thu, 02 Jun 16 09:16:49 +0000
Subject: [INDOLOGY] BUDDHISM AND CASTE SYSYTEM
Message-ID: <20160602091649.11851.qmail@f4mail-235-128.rediffmail.com>



Thanks everybody for your response and references.





                                                        ALAKENDU DAS


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From mrinalkaul81 at gmail.com  Thu Jun  2 13:31:26 2016
From: mrinalkaul81 at gmail.com (Mrinal Kaul)
Date: Thu, 02 Jun 16 19:01:26 +0530
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Announcement: Centre for Religious Studies (CRS) in	Manipal University
Message-ID: <90DA17E0-B757-4426-99C5-BC71DFE9855E@gmail.com>

Dear list members,

I am delighted to share with all of you that we have been able to establish a Centre for Religious Studies (CRS) in Manipal University. As the coordinator of this centre I look forward receiving your advice and collaborating with many of you. I invite scholars to visit our centre when in India, interact with us and deliver lectures etc. To begin with we will soon be conducting a national workshop on the Rasa Theory and an international conference/workshop on Tantric studies. Announcements should follow sometime sooner. The Centre is expected to raise its own funding. However, to begin with the university has allowed limited funding and we look forward collaborating with other organizations or universities in conducting events of mutual interest.

This Centre will only function as an administrative node under Manipal Centre for Philosophy and Humanities (MCPH) for conducting academic events. The Centre proposes to develop a comparative, multidisciplinary perspective to study the constant changes in the expressions and significance of religious practices in the past and in the present. We want to bring together expertise in specific religions with a comparative approach that draws on a variety of humanistic and social scientific disciplines. The Centre will promote interdisciplinary research, interchange and collaboration focused on religious studies among faculty members in Manipal and in the wider community through seminars, conferences and presentation of scholarly papers and lectures. 

Aims and Objectives:

To establish a first-of-its-kind department in India to facilitate scholarship, both academic engagement as well as general outreach, on different religious traditions of India.

To encourage and study interfaith dialogue between different intellectual, cultural, and literary formulations, both ancient and modern.

To build Manipal University?s reputation as a platform for innovative pedagogy in Religious Studies.

To facilitate critical conversations and engagements with the development of religious thought over different historical periods and contexts, as well as showcasing the changing relevance of these insights in contemporary society.
 
Projects:

A resource centre to build collaborations, and develop pedagogy for a robust model for religious studies in India.

Organize public events including talks, conferences, workshops, and seminars, on subjects relating to different religious traditions ? Hinduism, Islam, Buddhism, Christianity and Jainism among others.

Organize lectures by leading national and international scholars.

Introducing short-term certificate courses and courses for extra credits on relevant topics including advanced and interdisciplinary research methodology and concerned language courses.

Introducing special courses for scholars training them in exhaustive academic study of religious traditions in their sources by focusing on original manuscript materials.

I look forward for your support and cooperation.

Mrinal Kaul

------
Mrinal Kaul
Centre for Religious Studies (CRS)
Manipal Centre for Philosophy and Humanities (MCPH)
Manipal University
Dr TMA Pai Planetarium Complex
Alevoor Road, Manipal 576 104
Karnataka, INDIA
Tel: +91-820-29-23567 (Office)
Tel: +91-820-2574838 (Residence)
https://manipal.academia.edu/MrinalKaul
http://mcphcommunity.org
e-mail: mrinal.kaul at manipal.edu


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From julia.hegewald at uni-bonn.de  Fri Jun  3 10:13:20 2016
From: julia.hegewald at uni-bonn.de (Julia Hegewald)
Date: Fri, 03 Jun 16 12:13:20 +0200
Subject: =?utf-8?Q?[INDOLOGY]_Save_the_Date:_Second_EAAA_conference_in_Z=C3=BCrich:_24.-27._August_2017?=
In-Reply-To: <CAATk=rDz+=fS1K1AdPaNTWW8NJ4EedqefaNy9vi4j99iV5z7XQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <07604E1C-EA66-4DD8-B095-18367B29AE85@uni-bonn.de>

Dear colleagues and friends,
 
on behalf of the board of the European Association of Asian Art and Archaeology (EAAA), I am happy to announce the
 
Second EAAA conference in Zurich: 24.-27. August 2017.
 
The date was chosen so as not to coincide with the scheduled 15th EAJS conference, which takes place from 30. August - 2. September in Lisbon, Portugal (http://www.eajs.eu/?id=305). For anyone traveling from afar, it might even make sense to combine the two events.
 
Timeline:
30. June 2016: official call for papers
15. November 2016: Submission of panel and paper proposals
 
28. February 2017: Notification of acceptance
31. March 2017: early bird registration deadline
31. May 2017: conference program published
 
Abstracts:
follow the AAS standard: 250 words for both panel proposal, and paper abstracts
 
Membership:
A membership of EAAA is a prerequisite for panel and paper applications ?
annual membership fees are a mere 30 ?, or 10 ? for students, and we welcome donations!: http://www.ea-aaa.eu/members
 
For more information on the EAAA and its conference, visit: http://www.ea-aaa.eu
In case you have any questions, please contact: info at ea-aaa.eu
 
We look forward to receiving your abstracts and panel proposals and to welcoming you to Zurich!
 
On behalf of the EAAA board, I wish you all the best
and hope for your participation in the Second EAAA conference,

Julia Hegewald.



Prof. Dr. Julia A. B. Hegewald
Professor of Oriental Art History
Head of Department
University of Bonn
Institute of Oriental and Asian Studies (IOA)
Department of Asian and Islamic Art History
Adenauerallee 10
53113 Bonn
Germany

Email: julia.hegewald at uni-bonn.de
www.aik.uni-bonn.de
Tel. 0049-228-73 7213
Fax. 0049-228-73 4042





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From mailmealakendudas at rediffmail.com  Fri Jun  3 10:54:59 2016
From: mailmealakendudas at rediffmail.com (alakendu das)
Date: Fri, 03 Jun 16 10:54:59 +0000
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Caste system and Buddhism
Message-ID: <1464951180.S.19259.autosave.drafts.1464951298.11202@webmail.rediffmail.com>

 Dr.Rajam,

               There's  yet another interesting twist about good deeds and bad deeds. Obviously , good deeds are those  in accordance with the PanchaSheela .But Asanga, the 4th century Mahayana Buddhist philosopher ,in his  text Bodhisatta-Bhumi, categorically stated that a devout Buddhist may deviate from any of the 5 Panchasheelas  if he finds anybody who is violating the ethical code   viz.  showing scnt respect to parents or elder brother . or to a fellow Bhikkhu. 

                         It shows the practical  aspect of Buddhism, as it went on evolving  after Buddha .



                                                                ALAKENDU DAS



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From dnreigle at gmail.com  Fri Jun  3 17:29:09 2016
From: dnreigle at gmail.com (David and Nancy Reigle)
Date: Fri, 03 Jun 16 11:29:09 -0600
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Caste system and Buddhism
In-Reply-To: <1464951180.S.19259.autosave.drafts.1464951298.11202@webmail.rediffmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAPAZekbtpOw9c2c1q3sNYTZ-hWqJFynC38XMD0bAux-0yaH1Ow@mail.gmail.com>

Dear Alakendu Das,

Could you please provide a specific reference for this? Thanks. The
Bodhisattva-bh?mi is a large book.

Best regards,

David Reigle
Colorado, U.S.A.

On Fri, Jun 3, 2016 at 4:54 AM, alakendu das <
mailmealakendudas at rediffmail.com> wrote:

> Dr.Rajam,
> There's yet another interesting twist about good deeds and bad deeds.
> Obviously , good deeds are those in accordance with the PanchaSheela .But
> Asanga, the 4th century Mahayana Buddhist philosopher ,in his text
> Bodhisatta-Bhumi, categorically stated that a devout Buddhist may deviate
> from any of the 5 Panchasheelas if he finds anybody who is violating the
> ethical code viz. showing scnt respect to parents or elder brother . or to
> a fellow Bhikkhu.
> It shows the practical aspect of Buddhism, as it went on evolving after
> Buddha .
>
> ALAKENDU DAS
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
> committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
> unsubscribe)
>


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From hspier.muktabodha at gmail.com  Sat Jun  4 00:16:33 2016
From: hspier.muktabodha at gmail.com (Harry Spier)
Date: Fri, 03 Jun 16 20:16:33 -0400
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Sanskrit verses and logical sentences.
Message-ID: <CAPW7aQFP701QP3aFuauzj3vdNOH0dYo9i2YvB5EbvrwoZnoZ1A@mail.gmail.com>

Dear list members,

I vaguely recall reading somewhere (it might even have been on this list)
that in some tantric works  the logical sentence consists of the last two
padas of a verse and the first two padas of the next verse.

Can any members confirm if this is true or false and if true give an
example.

Many thanks,
Harry Spier


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From birendra176 at yahoo.com  Sat Jun  4 05:14:35 2016
From: birendra176 at yahoo.com (Birendra Nath Prasad)
Date: Sat, 04 Jun 16 05:14:35 +0000
Subject: Request for PDF of papers on Bengal
In-Reply-To: <356449569.1054332.1465017275398.JavaMail.yahoo.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <356449569.1054332.1465017275398.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>

Respected Colleagues,
I will be grateful to Indology members if they kindly take the trouble of making PDF copies of the following articles, which are difficult to access now, and send me the same as  email attachments:
1.	D.C. Sircar, The Kailan Copper Plate Inscription of Sridharana Rata of Samatata, Indian Historical Quarterly, Vol. XXIII, 3, 1947: 221-41.
2.	D.C. Sircar, Copper plate Inscription of King Bhavadeva of Devaparvata, Journal of Asiatic Society Letters, Vol. XVII, 2, 1951: 83-94.
3.	D.C. Sircar, Spread of Aryansim in Bengal, Journal of Asiatic Society Letters, Vol. XVIII, 1952: 171-78.
4.	D.C. Sircar, Pala Rule in Tippera District, Indian Historical Quarterly, Vol. XXVIII, 1, 1952: 51-57.
With regards
Yours truly
Birendra Nath Prasad
Asstt. Professor, History Deptt.
B.B. Ambedkar University, Lucknow 
India

--------------------------------------------
On Fri, 6/3/16, indology-request at list.indology.info <indology-request at list.indology.info> wrote:

 Subject: INDOLOGY Digest, Vol 41, Issue 3
 To: indology at list.indology.info
 Date: Friday, June 3, 2016, 9:30 PM
 
 Send INDOLOGY mailing list
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 ??? indology at list.indology.info
 
 To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
 ??? http://list.indology.info/mailman/listinfo/indology_list.indology.info
 
 or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help'
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 You can reach the person managing the list at
 ??? indology-owner at list.indology.info
 
 When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more
 specific
 than "Re: Contents of INDOLOGY digest..."
 
 
 Today's Topics:
 
 ???1. Save the Date: Second EAAA conference
 in Z?rich: 24.-27.
 ? ? ? August 2017 (Julia Hegewald)
 ???2. Re: Caste system and Buddhism (alakendu
 das)
 
 
 ----------------------------------------------------------------------
 
 Message: 1
 Date: Fri, 3 Jun 2016 12:13:20 +0200
 From: Julia Hegewald <julia.hegewald at uni-bonn.de>
 To: Nityanand Misra <nmisra at gmail.com>
 Cc: Indology <indology at list.indology.info>
 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Save the Date: Second EAAA conference in
 Z?rich:
 ??? 24.-27. August 2017
 Message-ID: <07604E1C-EA66-4DD8-B095-18367B29AE85 at uni-bonn.de>
 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252"
 
 Dear colleagues and friends,
  
 on behalf of the board of the European Association of Asian
 Art and Archaeology (EAAA), I am happy to announce the
  
 Second EAAA conference in Zurich: 24.-27. August 2017.
  
 The date was chosen so as not to coincide with the scheduled
 15th EAJS conference, which takes place from 30. August - 2.
 September in Lisbon, Portugal (http://www.eajs.eu/?id=305). For anyone traveling from
 afar, it might even make sense to combine the two events.
  
 Timeline:
 30. June 2016: official call for papers
 15. November 2016: Submission of panel and paper proposals
  
 28. February 2017: Notification of acceptance
 31. March 2017: early bird registration deadline
 31. May 2017: conference program published
  
 Abstracts:
 follow the AAS standard: 250 words for both panel proposal,
 and paper abstracts
  
 Membership:
 A membership of EAAA is a prerequisite for panel and paper
 applications ?
 annual membership fees are a mere 30 ?, or 10 ? for
 students, and we welcome donations!: http://www.ea-aaa.eu/members
  
 For more information on the EAAA and its conference, visit:
 http://www.ea-aaa.eu
 In case you have any questions, please contact: info at ea-aaa.eu
  
 We look forward to receiving your abstracts and panel
 proposals and to welcoming you to Zurich!
  
 On behalf of the EAAA board, I wish you all the best
 and hope for your participation in the Second EAAA
 conference,
 
 Julia Hegewald.
 
 
 
 Prof. Dr. Julia A. B. Hegewald
 Professor of Oriental Art History
 Head of Department
 University of Bonn
 Institute of Oriental and Asian Studies (IOA)
 Department of Asian and Islamic Art History
 Adenauerallee 10
 53113 Bonn
 Germany
 
 Email: julia.hegewald at uni-bonn.de
 www.aik.uni-bonn.de
 Tel. 0049-228-73 7213
 Fax. 0049-228-73 4042
 
 
 
 




From mrinalkaul81 at gmail.com  Sat Jun  4 13:02:21 2016
From: mrinalkaul81 at gmail.com (Mrinal Kaul)
Date: Sat, 04 Jun 16 18:32:21 +0530
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Sanskrit verses and logical sentences.
In-Reply-To: <CAPW7aQFP701QP3aFuauzj3vdNOH0dYo9i2YvB5EbvrwoZnoZ1A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAJz4T_5yUPvB-GSLfSZVxGocsODx97gvq-oZaOMJgxAHCZ8-4g@mail.gmail.com>

Dear Harry,

I wonder if you are referring to what Jayaratha calls structural unity
(*sa?caya
ny?ya*) in the *Tantr?loka-viveka* (T?V). Abhinavagupta ends each *?hnika*
of the T? with the first half of the concluding verse and begins the
subsequent *?hnika* with the second half of the same verse. This strategy
is followed in all chapters except in *?hnika* 36. See T?V: *iha
?hnik?d?hnik?ntarasya sa?cayany?yena parasparamanusy?tat?? dar?ayitum
ekenaiva ?lokena*
*tatparyantapr?rambhayorupasa?h?ropakramau karoti, iti asya granthak?rasya
?ail?* | (cf. T?V, Vol I, p. 309
?,?
? KSTS?
).  Also quoted by Navjivan Rastogi (1987:76-78) in the "Introduction to
the *Tantr?loka" (MLBD)*.

Also see T?V, Vol 12, p 390:  *iha ?hnik?d?hnik?ntarasya
parasparamanusy?tat?? dar?ayitum?dyantayorekena ?lokena*
*p?thagupasa?h?ropakramayorupanibandhe.api s??prata? granth?nte
tad??le?amatyantamavadyotayitamekenaiva*
*ardhena yugapattadupanibandha **iti* |

I hope this helps.

Best wishes.

Mrinal?

On 4 June 2016 at 05:46, Harry Spier <hspier.muktabodha at gmail.com> wrote:

> Dear list members,
>
> I vaguely recall reading somewhere (it might even have been on this list)
> that in some tantric works  the logical sentence consists of the last two
> padas of a verse and the first two padas of the next verse.
>
> Can any members confirm if this is true or false and if true give an
> example.
>
> Many thanks,
> Harry Spier
>
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
> committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
> unsubscribe)
>


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From dnreigle at gmail.com  Sat Jun  4 16:15:46 2016
From: dnreigle at gmail.com (David and Nancy Reigle)
Date: Sat, 04 Jun 16 10:15:46 -0600
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Caste system and Buddhism
In-Reply-To: <CALNcvFvOXgGM=xwctN8SgCN-yNoAnm0y9A5y_cYyb1=YWuZS4w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAPAZekZEkP9h6EEm0JJ0=geQBH2NtkfjjZ1Dd=-Pmm7OcOt2Xw@mail.gmail.com>

I would still like to know the source of this statement, but it does not
appear to be the Bodhisattva-bh?mi. According to an electronic search of
the digital version, the word pa?ca??la does not even occur in this text.
So it seems that the author of the Bodhisattva-bh?mi did not make any
statement about the pa?ca??la, let alone a categorical statement that a
devout Buddhist may deviate from these precepts.

The digital version of the Bodhisattva-bh?mi (Dutt edition) is available at
the Digital Sanskrit Buddhist Canon website (http://www.dsbcproject.org/),
and also at the GRETIL website (http://gretil.sub.uni-goettingen.de/). Page
image scans of the two printed editions, those by Unrai Wogihara
(1930-1936) and by Nalinaksha Dutt (1966), were posted by me on the web (
http://prajnaquest.fr/blog/sanskrit-texts-3/sanskrit-buddhist-texts/). Only
a few months ago the first complete English translation of the
Bodhisattva-bh?mi was published: *The Bodhisattva Path to Unsurpassed
Enlightenment*, translated by Artemus B. Engle (Boulder: Snow Lion, 2016).

By the way, I compared several pages of this new English translation by
Artemus Engle to the Sanskrit and Tibetan texts, and it appears to me to
have been very carefully made.

Best regards,

David Reigle
Colorado, U.S.A.


On Fri, Jun 3, 2016 at 11:32 AM, Artur Karp <karp at uw.edu.pl> wrote:

Also I would like to join the request,
>
> Best regards,
>
> Artur Karp (ret.)
> University of Warsaw
> Poland
>
> 2016-06-03 19:29 GMT+02:00 David and Nancy Reigle <dnreigle at gmail.com>:
>
>> Dear Alakendu Das,
>>
>> Could you please provide a specific reference for this? Thanks. The
>> Bodhisattva-bh?mi is a large book.
>>
>> Best regards,
>>
>> David Reigle
>> Colorado, U.S.A.
>>
>> On Fri, Jun 3, 2016 at 4:54 AM, alakendu das <
>> mailmealakendudas at rediffmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Dr.Rajam,
>>> There's yet another interesting twist about good deeds and bad deeds.
>>> Obviously , good deeds are those in accordance with the PanchaSheela .But
>>> Asanga, the 4th century Mahayana Buddhist philosopher ,in his text
>>> Bodhisatta-Bhumi, categorically stated that a devout Buddhist may deviate
>>> from any of the 5 Panchasheelas if he finds anybody who is violating the
>>> ethical code viz. showing scnt respect to parents or elder brother . or to
>>> a fellow Bhikkhu.
>>> It shows the practical aspect of Buddhism, as it went on evolving after
>>> Buddha .
>>>
>>> ALAKENDU DAS
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
>>> committee)
>>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options
>>> or unsubscribe)
>>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
>> committee)
>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
>> unsubscribe)
>>
>
>


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From hspier.muktabodha at gmail.com  Sat Jun  4 17:34:54 2016
From: hspier.muktabodha at gmail.com (Harry Spier)
Date: Sat, 04 Jun 16 13:34:54 -0400
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Sanskrit verses and logical sentences.
In-Reply-To: <CAJz4T_5yUPvB-GSLfSZVxGocsODx97gvq-oZaOMJgxAHCZ8-4g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAPW7aQH41DO0rBCBbBaQ7QmzXC==0jNJmPBK9b-+6WSV5b68mQ@mail.gmail.com>

Thank you Mrinal.  That was exactly what I was refering to.  Do you happen
to know if other works of Abhinavagupta (or other authors) follow this
practice.

Again many thanks,
Harry Spier

On Sat, Jun 4, 2016 at 9:02 AM, Mrinal Kaul <mrinalkaul81 at gmail.com> wrote:

> Dear Harry,
>
> I wonder if you are referring to what Jayaratha calls structural unity (*sa?caya
> ny?ya*) in the *Tantr?loka-viveka* (T?V). Abhinavagupta ends each *?hnika*
> of the T? with the first half of the concluding verse and begins the
> subsequent *?hnika* with the second half of the same verse. This strategy
> is followed in all chapters except in *?hnika* 36. See T?V: *iha
> ?hnik?d?hnik?ntarasya sa?cayany?yena parasparamanusy?tat?? dar?ayitum
> ekenaiva ?lokena*
> *tatparyantapr?rambhayorupasa?h?ropakramau karoti, iti asya granthak?rasya
> ?ail?* | (cf. T?V, Vol I, p. 309
> ?,?
> ? KSTS?
> ).  Also quoted by Navjivan Rastogi (1987:76-78) in the "Introduction to
> the *Tantr?loka" (MLBD)*.
>
> Also see T?V, Vol 12, p 390:  *iha ?hnik?d?hnik?ntarasya
> parasparamanusy?tat?? dar?ayitum?dyantayorekena ?lokena*
> *p?thagupasa?h?ropakramayorupanibandhe.api s??prata? granth?nte
> tad??le?amatyantamavadyotayitamekenaiva*
> *ardhena yugapattadupanibandha **iti* |
>
> I hope this helps.
>
> Best wishes.
>
> Mrinal?
>
> On 4 June 2016 at 05:46, Harry Spier <hspier.muktabodha at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Dear list members,
>>
>> I vaguely recall reading somewhere (it might even have been on this
>> list)  that in some tantric works  the logical sentence consists of the
>> last two padas of a verse and the first two padas of the next verse.
>>
>> Can any members confirm if this is true or false and if true give an
>> example.
>>
>> Many thanks,
>> Harry Spier
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
>> committee)
>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
>> unsubscribe)
>>
>
>


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From mkapstei at uchicago.edu  Sat Jun  4 21:37:31 2016
From: mkapstei at uchicago.edu (Matthew Kapstein)
Date: Sat, 04 Jun 16 21:37:31 +0000
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Caste system and Buddhism
In-Reply-To: <CAPAZekZEkP9h6EEm0JJ0=geQBH2NtkfjjZ1Dd=-Pmm7OcOt2Xw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <82C3E42590D939418C74DD76B97DDED047B99B38@xm-mbx-06-prod>

Dear friends,

The Bodhisattvabhumi does indeed teach that the bodhisattva may violate the vows of the pratimoksa
if motivated by compassion on behalf of beings. I don't have the Engle translation, or the time right now
to locate the passage in Skt., but in Mark Tatz's translation of the relevant section (Tatz, Asanga's Chapter
on Ethics with the Commentary of Tsong-kha-pa), we read (pp. 214-215):

"The object is a robber, thief, etc. who is .... about to murder many hundreds of auditors ... and bodhisattvas for
the sake of a few material goods. ... Seeing someone like this, he thinks, 'If I slay him, I myself may be reborn in hell. Nevertheless that would be far better...........' Should he take life in this way there is no fault, but a
spread of much merit."

and so on with examples that follow of righteous theft, sexual misconduct, etc.

In other words, in particular extreme circumstances, the bodhisattva vow overrides the pratimoksa.

Forgive the missing diacritical marks.

all best,
Matthew

Matthew Kapstein
Directeur d'?tudes,
Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes

Numata Visiting Professor of Buddhist Studies,
The University of Chicago
________________________________



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From McComas.Taylor at anu.edu.au  Sun Jun  5 05:31:35 2016
From: McComas.Taylor at anu.edu.au (McComas Taylor)
Date: Sun, 05 Jun 16 05:31:35 +0000
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Mystery manuscripts
Message-ID: <KL1PR0601MB143206BA888F220896BA88B6AE5B0@KL1PR0601MB1432.apcprd06.prod.outlook.com>

Dear Colleagues


Some weeks ago a friend brought in these mystery manuscripts that he purchased in Tamil Nadu 40 years ago. I have taken a dozen images and zipped them together - we would be very grateful if anyone could help us identify them


https://alliance.anu.edu.au/access/content/user/u3936301/Mysyer_mss/Archive.zip


Thanks in advance


McComas


________________________________
McComas Taylor, Associate Professor
Reader in Sanskrit
College of Asia and the Pacific
The Australian National University, Tel. + 61 2 6125 3179
Website: https://sites.google.com/site/mccomasanu/

Address: Baldessin Building 4.24, ANU, ACT 0200


Spoken Sanskrit in three minutes?<https://vimeo.com/143211561> Go on. Try it!<https://vimeo.com/143211561>
<https://vimeo.com/143211561>

________________________________


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From mkapstei at uchicago.edu  Sun Jun  5 08:55:10 2016
From: mkapstei at uchicago.edu (Matthew Kapstein)
Date: Sun, 05 Jun 16 08:55:10 +0000
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Caste system and Buddhism
In-Reply-To: <E65387E0-34E8-4AB9-AAC6-0C96D7684BC3@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <82C3E42590D939418C74DD76B97DDED047B99B84@xm-mbx-06-prod>

The legends of the "evil king" Glang-dar-ma and his assassination by the Buddhist monk
Lha-lung Dpal-gyi-rdo-rje are probably late (11th c.), but Dan is quite right about the
way in which the supposed murder was justified. This was very well known in Tibet and,
in the same vein, as Holmes Welch has shown, the Tibetan president of the Chinese Buddhist
Association during the 50s and early 60s, Geshe Sherab Gyatso, used the same "exceptions"
warranted by the bodhisattva vow to justify some of the excesses of Maoist policy.

Matthew Kapstein
Directeur d'?tudes,
Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes

Numata Visiting Professor of Buddhist Studies,
The University of Chicago
________________________________



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From nivi71r at yahoo.co.in  Sun Jun  5 11:14:33 2016
From: nivi71r at yahoo.co.in (Nivedita Rout)
Date: Sun, 05 Jun 16 11:14:33 +0000
Subject: Fw: [INDOLOGY] Mystery manuscripts
In-Reply-To: <1209038441.3882857.1465124983012.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <381166551.3910776.1465125273081.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>




 To: McComas Taylor <McComas.Taylor at anu.edu.au> 
 Sent: Sunday, June 5, 2016 4:39 PM
 Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] Mystery manuscripts
   
First of all the images you provide are not in order and not showing full leaves, however I was able to identify only one text, that is "bhadrottpatisa.mgraha" in the folio images of no. IMG_2076 and 77. The Ms is written in Grantha script. The text can be read with the help of the Transcript no. T0806b from the Manuscript Library of the IFP, Pondicherry.

      From: McComas Taylor <McComas.Taylor at anu.edu.au>
 To: "indology at list.indology.info List" <indology at list.indology.info> 
Cc: Nicholas Con Bogiatzis <nick.bogiatzis at gmail.com>
 Sent: Sunday, June 5, 2016 11:01 AM
 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Mystery manuscripts
  
 #yiv3635601503 #yiv3635601503 -- P {margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;}#yiv3635601503 Dear Colleagues
Some weeks ago a friend brought in these mystery manuscripts that he purchased in Tamil Nadu 40 years ago. I have taken a dozen images and zipped them together - we?would be?very grateful if anyone could help us identify them
https://alliance.anu.edu.au/access/content/user/u3936301/Mysyer_mss/Archive.zip

Thanks in advance
McComas
McComas Taylor, Associate Professor
Reader in Sanskrit
College of Asia and the Pacific
The Australian National University, Tel. + 61 2 6125 3179
Website: https://sites.google.com/site/mccomasanu/
Address: Baldessin Building 4.24, ANU, ACT 0200

Spoken Sanskrit in three minutes? Go on. Try it!

_______________________________________________
INDOLOGY mailing list
INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee)
http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe)

   

  


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From dominic.goodall at gmail.com  Sun Jun  5 11:26:34 2016
From: dominic.goodall at gmail.com (Dominic Goodall)
Date: Sun, 05 Jun 16 16:56:34 +0530
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Fw:  Mystery manuscripts
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1192.1465125340.16065.indology_list.indology.info@list.indology.info>
Message-ID: <24EA4DD0-4F0C-44F9-A1EF-9196B1D5B511@gmail.com>

It is true that photos of whole leaves might make the task easier and more interesting !

To add to Nibedita Rout?s impressive identification, here is a much more obvious one: it seems that IMG_0278.jpg gives the left-hand edge of a leaf that has the beginning of the B?lak???a of the R?m?ya?a (after the familiar copyists' ma?gala verse ?ukl?mbaradhara? vi??u? ?a?ivar?a? caturbhujam, etc.)

Several of the other fragments you show (IMG_0269.jpg to IMG_0274.jpg) just have that same familiar copyists? ma?gala, along with other formulae of obeisance.

Dominic Goodall
EFEO, Pondicherry



> On 05-Jun-2016, at 4:45 PM, Nivedita Rout via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info> wrote:
> 
> 
> From: Nivedita Rout <nivi71r at yahoo.co.in <mailto:nivi71r at yahoo.co.in>>
> Subject: Fw: [INDOLOGY] Mystery manuscripts
> Date: 5 June 2016 at 4:44:33 PM IST
> To: Indology List <indology at list.indology.info <mailto:indology at list.indology.info>>
> Reply-To: Nivedita Rout <nivi71r at yahoo.co.in <mailto:nivi71r at yahoo.co.in>>
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To: McComas Taylor <McComas.Taylor at anu.edu.au <mailto:McComas.Taylor at anu.edu.au>> 
> Sent: Sunday, June 5, 2016 4:39 PM
> Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] Mystery manuscripts
> 
> First of all the images you provide are not in order and not showing full leaves, however I was able to identify only one text, that is "bhadrottpatisa.mgraha" in the folio images of no. IMG_2076 and 77. The Ms is written in Grantha script. The text can be read with the help of the Transcript no. T0806b from the Manuscript Library of the IFP, Pondicherry.
> 
> 
> From: McComas Taylor <McComas.Taylor at anu.edu.au <mailto:McComas.Taylor at anu.edu.au>>
> To: "indology at list.indology.info <mailto:indology at list.indology.info> List" <indology at list.indology.info <mailto:indology at list.indology.info>> 
> Cc: Nicholas Con Bogiatzis <nick.bogiatzis at gmail.com <mailto:nick.bogiatzis at gmail.com>>
> Sent: Sunday, June 5, 2016 11:01 AM
> Subject: [INDOLOGY] Mystery manuscripts
> 
> Dear Colleagues
> 
> Some weeks ago a friend brought in these mystery manuscripts that he purchased in Tamil Nadu 40 years ago. I have taken a dozen images and zipped them together - we would be very grateful if anyone could help us identify them
> 
> https://alliance.anu.edu.au/access/content/user/u3936301/Mysyer_mss/Archive.zip <https://alliance.anu.edu.au/access/content/user/u3936301/Mysyer_mss/Archive.zip>
> 
> Thanks in advance
> 
> McComas
> 
> McComas Taylor, Associate Professor
> Reader in Sanskrit
> College of Asia and the Pacific
> The Australian National University, Tel. + 61 2 6125 3179
> Website: https://sites.google.com/site/mccomasanu/ <https://sites.google.com/site/mccomasanu/>
> Address: Baldessin Building 4.24, ANU, ACT 0200
> 
> Spoken Sanskrit in three minutes? <https://vimeo.com/143211561>?Go on. Try it! <https://vimeo.com/143211561>
>  <https://vimeo.com/143211561>
> 
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info <mailto:INDOLOGY at list.indology.info>
> indology-owner at list.indology.info <mailto:indology-owner at list.indology.info> (messages to the list's managing committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info? <http://listinfo.indology.info/>(where you can change your list options or unsubscribe)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info <mailto:INDOLOGY at list.indology.info>
> indology-owner at list.indology.info <mailto:indology-owner at list.indology.info> (messages to the list's managing committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info <http://listinfo.indology.info/> (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe)

Dominic Goodall
?cole fran?aise d'Extr?me-Orient,
19, rue Dumas,
Pondicherry 605001
Tel. +91 413 2334539




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From dnreigle at gmail.com  Sun Jun  5 13:47:41 2016
From: dnreigle at gmail.com (David and Nancy Reigle)
Date: Sun, 05 Jun 16 07:47:41 -0600
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Caste system and Buddhism
In-Reply-To: <82C3E42590D939418C74DD76B97DDED047B99B84@xm-mbx-06-prod>
Message-ID: <CAPAZekacfXLLb9OO_+vzJq30dv0tb1BWJ+12i6NPARk8sAZ7QQ@mail.gmail.com>

Many thanks to Matthew and Dan for providing references to where the
Bodhisattva-bh?mi describes situations in which a bodhisattva may perform
an act such as killing, which is otherwise prohibited by the Buddhist
precepts. In the new English translation by Artemus Engle these can be
found on pp. 276-282.

I had heard the story from the Buddhist J?takas of a ship captain who
killed a robber on board his ship. The captain was actually a bodhisattva,
who with his infallible prevision knew that the robber would kill all 500
of the merchants on board the ship. So to prevent this, and to prevent the
awful karma that the robber would generate by doing this, the bodhisattva
captain out of compassion took upon himself the negative karma of killing
and killed the robber.

To me, such examples do not at all show that Asanga in his Bodhisattva-bh?mi
"categorically stated that a devout Buddhist may deviate from any of the 5
Panchasheelas if he finds anybody who is violating the ethical code viz.
showing scant respect to parents or elder brother, or to a fellow Bhikkhu."

Best regards,

David Reigle
Colorado, U.S.A.

------------------------------


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From hspier.muktabodha at gmail.com  Sun Jun  5 19:07:34 2016
From: hspier.muktabodha at gmail.com (Harry Spier)
Date: Sun, 05 Jun 16 15:07:34 -0400
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Fw: Mystery manuscripts
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1192.1465125340.16065.indology_list.indology.info@list.indology.info>
Message-ID: <CAPW7aQE94=eG0NjDJ-n5w69knO5+yxkcb47SFfHmhHwrw4PO6g@mail.gmail.com>

Please note that the IFP  transcript to which Nivedita Rout refers to below
can be accessed on line frrom the Muktabodha digital library.
Go to http://muktalib5.org/digital_library.htm and click on "Paper
Transcripts of the IFP"

Harry Spier
Muktabodha Indological Research Institute


On Sun, Jun 5, 2016 at 7:15 AM, Nivedita Rout via INDOLOGY <
indology at list.indology.info> wrote:s

First of all the images you provide are not in order and not showing full
leaves, however I was able to identify only one text, that is
"bhadrottpatisa.mgraha" in the folio images of no. IMG_2076 and 77. The Ms
is written in Grantha script. The text can be read with the help of the
Transcript no. T0806b from the Manuscript Library of the IFP, Pondicherry.


------------------------------
*From:* McComas Taylor <McComas.Taylor at anu.edu.au>
*To:* "indology at list.indology.info List" <indology at list.indology.info>
*Cc:* Nicholas Con Bogiatzis <nick.bogiatzis at gmail.com>
*Sent:* Sunday, June 5, 2016 11:01 AM
*Subject:* [INDOLOGY] Mystery manuscripts

Dear Colleagues

Some weeks ago a friend brought in these mystery manuscripts that he
purchased in Tamil Nadu 40 years ago. I have taken a dozen images and
zipped them together - we would be very grateful if anyone could help us
identify them

https://alliance.anu.edu.au/access/content/user/u3936301/Mysyer_mss/Archive.zip

Thanks in advance

McComas

------------------------------
McComas Taylor, Associate Professor
Reader in Sanskrit
College of Asia and the Pacific
The Australian National University, Tel. + 61 2 6125 3179
Website: https://sites.google.com/site/mccomasanu/
Address: Baldessin Building 4.24, ANU, ACT 0200

Spoken Sanskrit in three minutes? <https://vimeo.com/143211561> Go on. Try
it! <https://vimeo.com/143211561>
<https://vimeo.com/143211561>
------------------------------

_______________________________________________
INDOLOGY mailing list
INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
committee)
http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
unsubscribe)


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From franceschini.marco at fastwebnet.it  Sun Jun  5 21:26:53 2016
From: franceschini.marco at fastwebnet.it (Marco Franceschini)
Date: Sun, 05 Jun 16 23:26:53 +0200
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Mystery manuscripts
In-Reply-To: <KL1PR0601MB143206BA888F220896BA88B6AE5B0@KL1PR0601MB1432.apcprd06.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <E0A494D5-8C16-4505-8369-84BDAB188046@fastwebnet.it>

Dear McComas,

the folio in IMG_2080 to IMG_2082 gives the final part of the last ?loka of the Dev?bh?gavatapur??a (12th skandha, 14th adhy?ya): varddhayitv??i???b?cara?akamalabh??go nirjjag?m?tha suta? / iti caturdd???ddhy?ya? / ? sarvvacaitanyarup?? [?]

It is probably worth noting that the manuscript in your IMG_2069 to IMG_2078 is quite similar to a manuscript of the Dev?m?h?tmya in the Cambridge University Library (MS-OR-02344), with reference both to the hand that wrote them (strongly influenced by Malayalam script) and to the particular kind of palm leaves used. The Cambridge manuscript has been digitized and is fully accessible: http://cudl.lib.cam.ac.uk/view/MS-OR-02344/1 . It was copied by some N?r?ya?an in 1908: although I wouldn?t go so far as to state that the two manuscripts were written by the same scribe, I?m reasonably sure that your manuscript is the same age as the Cambridge one. 

Best wishes,

Marco
---

Il giorno 05/giu/2016, alle ore 07:31, McComas Taylor <McComas.Taylor at anu.edu.au> ha scritto:

> Dear Colleagues
> 
> Some weeks ago a friend brought in these mystery manuscripts that he purchased in Tamil Nadu 40 years ago. I have taken a dozen images and zipped them together - we would be very grateful if anyone could help us identify them
> 
> https://alliance.anu.edu.au/access/content/user/u3936301/Mysyer_mss/Archive.zip
> 
> Thanks in advance
> 
> McComas
> 
> McComas Taylor, Associate Professor
> Reader in Sanskrit
> College of Asia and the Pacific
> The Australian National University, Tel. + 61 2 6125 3179
> Website: https://sites.google.com/site/mccomasanu/
> Address: Baldessin Building 4.24, ANU, ACT 0200
> 
> Spoken Sanskrit in three minutes? Go on. Try it!
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe)



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From alex.watson at ashoka.edu.in  Mon Jun  6 06:25:49 2016
From: alex.watson at ashoka.edu.in (Alex Watson)
Date: Mon, 06 Jun 16 09:25:49 +0300
Subject: [INDOLOGY] suicide as a result of love
Message-ID: <CA+H=kyRV8TES_whz-O0QhmbF005YRqq5Pc3sMSedwRnN18189A@mail.gmail.com>

Dear List Members

A colleague, Madhavi Menon, who is writing a book entitled 'A History of
Desire in India', has asked me the following question.  All help
appreciated; I will forward your responses to her.

"Are there any narratives in Sanskrit/Buddhist
literature/philosophy/history that talk about suicide, or ?tma-haty?,
specifically in relation to love and desire?"

Yours Alex

-- 
Alex Watson
Professor of Indian Philosophy
Ashoka University
*https://ashokauniversity.academia.edu/AlexWatson
<https://ashokauniversity.academia.edu/AlexWatson>*


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From andrew.ollett at gmail.com  Mon Jun  6 06:51:15 2016
From: andrew.ollett at gmail.com (Andrew Ollett)
Date: Mon, 06 Jun 16 08:51:15 +0200
Subject: [INDOLOGY] suicide as a result of love
In-Reply-To: <CA+H=kyRV8TES_whz-O0QhmbF005YRqq5Pc3sMSedwRnN18189A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAANHO17TyD-36nPqLu3iXSTq76TT2aBnGCJxVmpNhD5vbiqEGQ@mail.gmail.com>

I have the feeling that this is a relatively common motif in story
literature. The one example that comes to mind is the Prakrit verse romance
L?l?vat?, in which one of the characters (Kuvalay?val?) has a "gandharva"
wedding with a Gandharva (Citr??gada), and when her father finds out and
curses them, she is so overcome with shame that she tries to hang herself
from a tree. She is stopped at the last moment by her mother Rambh?. This
is around v. 658 in A.N. Upadhye's edition.

On Mon, Jun 6, 2016 at 8:25 AM, Alex Watson <alex.watson at ashoka.edu.in>
wrote:

> Dear List Members
>
> A colleague, Madhavi Menon, who is writing a book entitled 'A History of
> Desire in India', has asked me the following question.  All help
> appreciated; I will forward your responses to her.
>
> "Are there any narratives in Sanskrit/Buddhist
> literature/philosophy/history that talk about suicide, or ?tma-haty?,
> specifically in relation to love and desire?"
>
> Yours Alex
>
> --
> Alex Watson
> Professor of Indian Philosophy
> Ashoka University
> *https://ashokauniversity.academia.edu/AlexWatson
> <https://ashokauniversity.academia.edu/AlexWatson>*
>
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
> committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
> unsubscribe)
>


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From dermot at grevatt.force9.co.uk  Mon Jun  6 08:09:44 2016
From: dermot at grevatt.force9.co.uk (dermot at grevatt.force9.co.uk)
Date: Mon, 06 Jun 16 09:09:44 +0100
Subject: [INDOLOGY] suicide as a result of love
In-Reply-To: <CAANHO17TyD-36nPqLu3iXSTq76TT2aBnGCJxVmpNhD5vbiqEGQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <57552FC8.903.523850@dermot.grevatt.force9.co.uk>

In Purnabhadra's version of the Pancatantra (ed. Hertel 1908 pp. 46-55; tr. A.W. Ryder 1956, 
pp. 89-104), a weaver falls in love with a princess, swoons, then resolves on suicide by fire. 
He is saved by his friend, a chariot-builder or carpenter (rathakAra), who promises to use his 
skill to effect a union, and is spectacularly successful. It's a wonderful story, involving sex, 
politics, and religion.

This is a mock-heroic example: the motif of suicidal despair resulting from love at first sight, 
which is expected of exalted characters, is transferred to a man of low degree.

Dermot

On 6 Jun 2016 at 8:51, Andrew Ollett wrote:

I have the feeling that this is a relatively common motif in story literature. The one example 
that comes to mind is the Prakrit verse romance Lilavati, in which one of the characters 
(Kuvalayavali) has a "gandharva" wedding with a Gandharva (Citragada), and when her 
father finds out and curses them, she is so overcome with shame that she tries to hang 
herself from a tree. She is stopped at the last moment by her mother Rambha. This is around 
v. 658 in A.N. Upadhye's edition.

On Mon, Jun 6, 2016 at 8:25 AM, Alex Watson <alex.watson at ashoka.edu.in> wrote:
    Dear List Members

    A colleague, Madhavi Menon, who is writing a book entitled 'A History of Desire in 
    India', has asked me the following question. All help appreciated; I will forward your 
    responses to her.

    "Are there any narratives in Sanskrit/Buddhist literature/philosophy/history that talk 
    about suicide, or atma-hatya, specifically in relation to love and desire?"

    Yours Alex

    -- 
    Alex Watson
    Professor of Indian Philosophy
    Ashoka University
    https://ashokauniversity.academia.edu/AlexWatson
    
    _______________________________________________
    INDOLOGY mailing list
    INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
    indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee)
    http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe)


-- 
Dermot Killingley
9, Rectory Drive,
Gosforth,
Newcastle upon Tyne NE3 1XT
Phone (0191) 285 8053






From philipp.a.maas at gmail.com  Mon Jun  6 08:50:56 2016
From: philipp.a.maas at gmail.com (Philipp Maas)
Date: Mon, 06 Jun 16 10:50:56 +0200
Subject: [INDOLOGY] suicide as a result of love
In-Reply-To: <57552FC8.903.523850@dermot.grevatt.force9.co.uk>
Message-ID: <CAOuG4CY-9KqLvzDWUyau4Gy0edfFGEZ2Wgsyw18=aRTEvGjhxw@mail.gmail.com>

Dear Dermot and all,

The story of the ?Weaver as Vi??u? occurs indeed in P?rnabhadra?s recension
of the Pata?catntra as well as in the exemplar of this recension, the
so-called *textus simplicior*. P?rnabhadra censored the narrative strongly
from the perspective of conservative sm?rta-Hinduism and left out the
motive of suicide out of desire for the princess, which, accordingly only
occurs in the *textus simplicior*.



For a more comprehensive analysis of the two versions of the narrative see
my ?On Discourses of Dharma and the Pa?catantra.? *Wiener Zeitschrift f?r
die Kunde S?dasiens* 55 (2013-2014), p. 5-31, of which you find a pre-print
draft version here
<https://www.academia.edu/13986474/On_Discourses_of_Dharma_and_the_Pa%C3%B1catantra>
.



Best wishes,



Philipp


2016-06-06 10:09 GMT+02:00 <dermot at grevatt.force9.co.uk>:

> In Purnabhadra's version of the Pancatantra (ed. Hertel 1908 pp. 46-55;
> tr. A.W. Ryder 1956,
> pp. 89-104), a weaver falls in love with a princess, swoons, then resolves
> on suicide by fire.
> He is saved by his friend, a chariot-builder or carpenter (rathakAra), who
> promises to use his
> skill to effect a union, and is spectacularly successful. It's a wonderful
> story, involving sex,
> politics, and religion.
>
> This is a mock-heroic example: the motif of suicidal despair resulting
> from love at first sight,
> which is expected of exalted characters, is transferred to a man of low
> degree.
>
> Dermot
>
> On 6 Jun 2016 at 8:51, Andrew Ollett wrote:
>
> I have the feeling that this is a relatively common motif in story
> literature. The one example
> that comes to mind is the Prakrit verse romance Lilavati, in which one of
> the characters
> (Kuvalayavali) has a "gandharva" wedding with a Gandharva (Citragada), and
> when her
> father finds out and curses them, she is so overcome with shame that she
> tries to hang
> herself from a tree. She is stopped at the last moment by her mother
> Rambha. This is around
> v. 658 in A.N. Upadhye's edition.
>
> On Mon, Jun 6, 2016 at 8:25 AM, Alex Watson <alex.watson at ashoka.edu.in>
> wrote:
>     Dear List Members
>
>     A colleague, Madhavi Menon, who is writing a book entitled 'A History
> of Desire in
>     India', has asked me the following question. All help appreciated; I
> will forward your
>     responses to her.
>
>     "Are there any narratives in Sanskrit/Buddhist
> literature/philosophy/history that talk
>     about suicide, or atma-hatya, specifically in relation to love and
> desire?"
>
>     Yours Alex
>
>     --
>     Alex Watson
>     Professor of Indian Philosophy
>     Ashoka University
>     https://ashokauniversity.academia.edu/AlexWatson
>
>     _______________________________________________
>     INDOLOGY mailing list
>     INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>     indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
> committee)
>     http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options
> or unsubscribe)
>
>
> --
> Dermot Killingley
> 9, Rectory Drive,
> Gosforth,
> Newcastle upon Tyne NE3 1XT
> Phone (0191) 285 8053
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
> committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
> unsubscribe)
>



-- 
Dr. Philipp A. Maas
Universit?tsassistent
Institut f?r S?dasien-, Tibet- und Buddhismuskunde
Universit?t Wien
Spitalgasse 2-4, Hof 2, Eingang 2.1
A-1090 Wien
?sterreich
univie.academia.edu/PhilippMaas


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From klaus.karttunen at helsinki.fi  Mon Jun  6 09:46:13 2016
From: klaus.karttunen at helsinki.fi (Klaus Karttunen)
Date: Mon, 06 Jun 16 12:46:13 +0300
Subject: [INDOLOGY] suicide as a result of love
In-Reply-To: <CAOuG4CY-9KqLvzDWUyau4Gy0edfFGEZ2Wgsyw18=aRTEvGjhxw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <C3F48E34-233E-443F-8773-E6BDA15E2F07@helsinki.fi>

Dear all,
in Har?a?s Ratn?val? S?garik? ? sure that her love to the king is unsuccesful ? will hang herself, but luckily the king arrives in time and saves her. There are certainly many other examples.

Best,
Klaus

Klaus Karttunen
South Asian and Indoeuropean Studies
Asian and African Studies, Department of World Cultures
PL 59 (Unioninkatu 38 B)
00014 University of Helsinki, FINLAND
Tel +358-(0)2941 4482418
Fax +358-(0)2941 22094
Klaus.Karttunen at helsinki.fi






> On 06 Jun 2016, at 11:50, Philipp Maas <philipp.a.maas at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Dear Dermot and all,
> 
> The story of the ?Weaver as Vi??u? occurs indeed in P?rnabhadra?s recension of the Pata?catntra as well as in the exemplar of this recension, the so-called textus simplicior. P?rnabhadra censored the narrative strongly from the perspective of conservative sm?rta-Hinduism and left out the motive of suicide out of desire for the princess, which, accordingly only occurs in the textus simplicior.
> 
>  
> For a more comprehensive analysis of the two versions of the narrative see my ?On Discourses of Dharma and the Pa?catantra.? Wiener Zeitschrift f?r die Kunde S?dasiens 55 (2013-2014), p. 5-31, of which you find a pre-print draft version here <https://www.academia.edu/13986474/On_Discourses_of_Dharma_and_the_Pa%C3%B1catantra>.
> 
>  
> Best wishes,
> 
>  
> Philipp
> 
> 
> 
> 2016-06-06 10:09 GMT+02:00 <dermot at grevatt.force9.co.uk <mailto:dermot at grevatt.force9.co.uk>>:
> In Purnabhadra's version of the Pancatantra (ed. Hertel 1908 pp. 46-55; tr. A.W. Ryder 1956,
> pp. 89-104), a weaver falls in love with a princess, swoons, then resolves on suicide by fire.
> He is saved by his friend, a chariot-builder or carpenter (rathakAra), who promises to use his
> skill to effect a union, and is spectacularly successful. It's a wonderful story, involving sex,
> politics, and religion.
> 
> This is a mock-heroic example: the motif of suicidal despair resulting from love at first sight,
> which is expected of exalted characters, is transferred to a man of low degree.
> 
> Dermot
> 
> On 6 Jun 2016 at 8:51, Andrew Ollett wrote:
> 
> I have the feeling that this is a relatively common motif in story literature. The one example
> that comes to mind is the Prakrit verse romance Lilavati, in which one of the characters
> (Kuvalayavali) has a "gandharva" wedding with a Gandharva (Citragada), and when her
> father finds out and curses them, she is so overcome with shame that she tries to hang
> herself from a tree. She is stopped at the last moment by her mother Rambha. This is around
> v. 658 in A.N. Upadhye's edition.
> 
> On Mon, Jun 6, 2016 at 8:25 AM, Alex Watson <alex.watson at ashoka.edu.in <mailto:alex.watson at ashoka.edu.in>> wrote:
>     Dear List Members
> 
>     A colleague, Madhavi Menon, who is writing a book entitled 'A History of Desire in
>     India', has asked me the following question. All help appreciated; I will forward your
>     responses to her.
> 
>     "Are there any narratives in Sanskrit/Buddhist literature/philosophy/history that talk
>     about suicide, or atma-hatya, specifically in relation to love and desire?"
> 
>     Yours Alex
> 
>     --
>     Alex Watson
>     Professor of Indian Philosophy
>     Ashoka University
>     https://ashokauniversity.academia.edu/AlexWatson <https://ashokauniversity.academia.edu/AlexWatson>
> 
>     _______________________________________________
>     INDOLOGY mailing list
>     INDOLOGY at list.indology.info <mailto:INDOLOGY at list.indology.info>
>     indology-owner at list.indology.info <mailto:indology-owner at list.indology.info> (messages to the list's managing committee)
>     http://listinfo.indology.info <http://listinfo.indology.info/> (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe)
> 
> 
> --
> Dermot Killingley
> 9, Rectory Drive,
> Gosforth,
> Newcastle upon Tyne NE3 1XT
> Phone (0191) 285 8053 <tel:%280191%29%20285%208053>
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info <mailto:INDOLOGY at list.indology.info>
> indology-owner at list.indology.info <mailto:indology-owner at list.indology.info> (messages to the list's managing committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info <http://listinfo.indology.info/> (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe)
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Dr. Philipp A. Maas
> Universit?tsassistent
> Institut f?r S?dasien-, Tibet- und Buddhismuskunde
> Universit?t Wien
> Spitalgasse 2-4, Hof 2, Eingang 2.1
> A-1090 Wien
> ?sterreich
> univie.academia.edu/PhilippMaas <http://univie.academia.edu/PhilippMaas>
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe)



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From mmdesh at umich.edu  Mon Jun  6 10:24:33 2016
From: mmdesh at umich.edu (Madhav Deshpande)
Date: Mon, 06 Jun 16 06:24:33 -0400
Subject: [INDOLOGY] suicide as a result of love
In-Reply-To: <C3F48E34-233E-443F-8773-E6BDA15E2F07@helsinki.fi>
Message-ID: <CAB3-dzfRHVKjv0x4QKV1y3j4RZTZ5GnGZ3+mKquG4DhDuj9L5Q@mail.gmail.com>

In the Nalop?khy?na (in the Sanskrit Reader, Charles Lanman, p. 9-10) from
the Mahabharata, Damayant? threatens to kill herself, if rejected by Nala.
She refers to four alternatives to kill herself:  yadi tvam bhajam?n?m m?m
praty?khy?syasi m?nada / vi?am agnim jalam rajjum ?sth?sye tava k?ra??t //,
"O, Giver of Honor, if you reject me who is devoted to you, then on account
of you, I will resort to poison, or fire, or water, or a rope."

Madhav Deshpande

On Mon, Jun 6, 2016 at 5:46 AM, Klaus Karttunen <klaus.karttunen at helsinki.fi
> wrote:

> Dear all,
> in Har?a?s Ratn?val? S?garik? ? sure that her love to the king is
> unsuccesful ? will hang herself, but luckily the king arrives in time and
> saves her. There are certainly many other examples.
>
> Best,
> Klaus
>
> Klaus Karttunen
> South Asian and Indoeuropean Studies
> Asian and African Studies, Department of World Cultures
> PL 59 (Unioninkatu 38 B)
> 00014 University of Helsinki, FINLAND
> Tel +358-(0)2941 4482418
> Fax +358-(0)2941 22094
> Klaus.Karttunen at helsinki.fi
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On 06 Jun 2016, at 11:50, Philipp Maas <philipp.a.maas at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Dear Dermot and all,
>
> The story of the ?Weaver as Vi??u? occurs indeed in P?rnabhadra?s
> recension of the Pata?catntra as well as in the exemplar of this recension,
> the so-called *textus simplicior*. P?rnabhadra censored the narrative
> strongly from the perspective of conservative sm?rta-Hinduism and left out
> the motive of suicide out of desire for the princess, which, accordingly
> only occurs in the *textus simplicior*.
>
>
> For a more comprehensive analysis of the two versions of the narrative see
> my ?On Discourses of Dharma and the Pa?catantra.? *Wiener Zeitschrift f?r
> die Kunde S?dasiens* 55 (2013-2014), p. 5-31, of which you find a
> pre-print draft version here
> <https://www.academia.edu/13986474/On_Discourses_of_Dharma_and_the_Pa%C3%B1catantra>
> .
>
>
> Best wishes,
>
>
> Philipp
>
>
> 2016-06-06 10:09 GMT+02:00 <dermot at grevatt.force9.co.uk>:
>
>> In Purnabhadra's version of the Pancatantra (ed. Hertel 1908 pp. 46-55;
>> tr. A.W. Ryder 1956,
>> pp. 89-104), a weaver falls in love with a princess, swoons, then
>> resolves on suicide by fire.
>> He is saved by his friend, a chariot-builder or carpenter (rathakAra),
>> who promises to use his
>> skill to effect a union, and is spectacularly successful. It's a
>> wonderful story, involving sex,
>> politics, and religion.
>>
>> This is a mock-heroic example: the motif of suicidal despair resulting
>> from love at first sight,
>> which is expected of exalted characters, is transferred to a man of low
>> degree.
>>
>> Dermot
>>
>> On 6 Jun 2016 at 8:51, Andrew Ollett wrote:
>>
>> I have the feeling that this is a relatively common motif in story
>> literature. The one example
>> that comes to mind is the Prakrit verse romance Lilavati, in which one of
>> the characters
>> (Kuvalayavali) has a "gandharva" wedding with a Gandharva (Citragada),
>> and when her
>> father finds out and curses them, she is so overcome with shame that she
>> tries to hang
>> herself from a tree. She is stopped at the last moment by her mother
>> Rambha. This is around
>> v. 658 in A.N. Upadhye's edition.
>>
>> On Mon, Jun 6, 2016 at 8:25 AM, Alex Watson <alex.watson at ashoka.edu.in>
>> wrote:
>>     Dear List Members
>>
>>     A colleague, Madhavi Menon, who is writing a book entitled 'A History
>> of Desire in
>>     India', has asked me the following question. All help appreciated; I
>> will forward your
>>     responses to her.
>>
>>     "Are there any narratives in Sanskrit/Buddhist
>> literature/philosophy/history that talk
>>     about suicide, or atma-hatya, specifically in relation to love and
>> desire?"
>>
>>     Yours Alex
>>
>>     --
>>     Alex Watson
>>     Professor of Indian Philosophy
>>     Ashoka University
>>     https://ashokauniversity.academia.edu/AlexWatson
>>
>>     _______________________________________________
>>     INDOLOGY mailing list
>>     INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>>     indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
>> committee)
>>     http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list
>> options or unsubscribe)
>>
>>
>> --
>> Dermot Killingley
>> 9, Rectory Drive,
>> Gosforth,
>> Newcastle upon Tyne NE3 1XT
>> Phone (0191) 285 8053
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
>> committee)
>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
>> unsubscribe)
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Dr. Philipp A. Maas
> Universit?tsassistent
> Institut f?r S?dasien-, Tibet- und Buddhismuskunde
> Universit?t Wien
> Spitalgasse 2-4, Hof 2, Eingang 2.1
> A-1090 Wien
> ?sterreich
> univie.academia.edu/PhilippMaas
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
> committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
> unsubscribe)
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
> committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
> unsubscribe)
>



-- 
Madhav M. Deshpande
Professor of Sanskrit and Linguistics
Department of Asian Languages and Cultures
202 South Thayer Street, Suite 6111
The University of Michigan
Ann Arbor, MI 48104-1608, USA


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From mkapstei at uchicago.edu  Mon Jun  6 10:29:09 2016
From: mkapstei at uchicago.edu (Matthew Kapstein)
Date: Mon, 06 Jun 16 10:29:09 +0000
Subject: [INDOLOGY] suicide as a result of love
In-Reply-To: <CAB3-dzfRHVKjv0x4QKV1y3j4RZTZ5GnGZ3+mKquG4DhDuj9L5Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <82C3E42590D939418C74DD76B97DDED047B99E8A@xm-mbx-06-prod>

In Saundarananda, too, Nanda's wife threatens suicide; and I believe that in some versions
of the tale she either takes her own life or dies of grief.

Matthew Kapstein
Directeur d'?tudes,
Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes

Numata Visiting Professor of Buddhist Studies,
The University of Chicago
________________________________



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From michaels at asia-europe.uni-heidelberg.de  Mon Jun  6 10:32:11 2016
From: michaels at asia-europe.uni-heidelberg.de (Michaels, Axel)
Date: Mon, 06 Jun 16 10:32:11 +0000
Subject: [INDOLOGY] suicide as a result of love
In-Reply-To: <CAB3-dzfRHVKjv0x4QKV1y3j4RZTZ5GnGZ3+mKquG4DhDuj9L5Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <95D7766C-3EC4-4859-A3F9-6835C2560F44@asia-europe.uni-heidelberg.de>

Perhaps this question would also include some cases of suttee. Se for instance Manadeva?s inscription (464 CE) in Cangu Narayan (Nepal):


?With affection (and) with a tearful face she addressed (her) son: "Your father went to heaven. O (my) son, as your father has gone today, what is the use of my breath [i.e. life]. Take over, o son, the kingdom! I (will) follow right now the path of my husband. What (use) is (it) for me to live without (my) husband by chains of hope made by the extension of (different) kinds of pleasures when the act of meeting is like an illusion and a dream. I will go!" Saying so, she (however) remained. Then she was addressed by her sorrowful son who had diligently pressed her feet against his head out of devotion: "What (to do) with pleasure, what with the joys of life when there is seperation from you? I will give up (my) life first, later I will go to heaven from here." With tears coming out from her lotus-like face, with a net made out of words she became like a trapped and tied bird, (and) therefore she remained. After she had, together with her noble son, performed her husband's obsequies she (lived) by the rules of good conduct, chastity, fasting (and) with a totally cleaned mind; (moreover) she always gave wealth to the brahmins to increase (her late husband's) merit, she remained, with him in her mind, according to the rule of the sat? vow (so that) she really was like Arundhat?.? (Trans. Th. Riccardi)


Axel Michaels


Von: INDOLOGY <indology-bounces at list.indology.info<mailto:indology-bounces at list.indology.info>> im Auftrag von "mmdesh at umich.edu<mailto:mmdesh at umich.edu>" <mmdesh at umich.edu<mailto:mmdesh at umich.edu>>
Datum: Montag, 6. Juni 2016 um 12:24
An: Klaus Karttunen <klaus.karttunen at helsinki.fi<mailto:klaus.karttunen at helsinki.fi>>
Cc: "indology at list.indology.info<mailto:indology at list.indology.info>" <indology at list.indology.info<mailto:indology at list.indology.info>>
Betreff: Re: [INDOLOGY] suicide as a result of love

In the Nalop?khy?na (in the Sanskrit Reader, Charles Lanman, p. 9-10) from the Mahabharata, Damayant? threatens to kill herself, if rejected by Nala.  She refers to four alternatives to kill herself:  yadi tvam bhajam?n?m m?m praty?khy?syasi m?nada / vi?am agnim jalam rajjum ?sth?sye tava k?ra??t //, "O, Giver of Honor, if you reject me who is devoted to you, then on account of you, I will resort to poison, or fire, or water, or a rope."

Madhav Deshpande

On Mon, Jun 6, 2016 at 5:46 AM, Klaus Karttunen <klaus.karttunen at helsinki.fi<mailto:klaus.karttunen at helsinki.fi>> wrote:
Dear all,
in Har?a?s Ratn?val? S?garik? ? sure that her love to the king is unsuccesful ? will hang herself, but luckily the king arrives in time and saves her. There are certainly many other examples.

Best,
Klaus

Klaus Karttunen
South Asian and Indoeuropean Studies
Asian and African Studies, Department of World Cultures
PL 59 (Unioninkatu 38 B)
00014 University of Helsinki, FINLAND
Tel +358-(0)2941 4482418
Fax +358-(0)2941 22094
Klaus.Karttunen at helsinki.fi<mailto:Klaus.Karttunen at helsinki.fi>






On 06 Jun 2016, at 11:50, Philipp Maas <philipp.a.maas at gmail.com<mailto:philipp.a.maas at gmail.com>> wrote:

Dear Dermot and all,
The story of the ?Weaver as Vi??u? occurs indeed in P?rnabhadra?s recension of the Pata?catntra as well as in the exemplar of this recension, the so-called textus simplicior. P?rnabhadra censored the narrative strongly from the perspective of conservative sm?rta-Hinduism and left out the motive of suicide out of desire for the princess, which, accordingly only occurs in the textus simplicior.

For a more comprehensive analysis of the two versions of the narrative see my ?On Discourses of Dharma and the Pa?catantra.? Wiener Zeitschrift f?r die Kunde S?dasiens 55 (2013-2014), p. 5-31, of which you find a pre-print draft version here<https://www.academia.edu/13986474/On_Discourses_of_Dharma_and_the_Pa%C3%B1catantra>.

Best wishes,

Philipp


2016-06-06 10:09 GMT+02:00 <dermot at grevatt.force9.co.uk<mailto:dermot at grevatt.force9.co.uk>>:
In Purnabhadra's version of the Pancatantra (ed. Hertel 1908 pp. 46-55; tr. A.W. Ryder 1956,
pp. 89-104), a weaver falls in love with a princess, swoons, then resolves on suicide by fire.
He is saved by his friend, a chariot-builder or carpenter (rathakAra), who promises to use his
skill to effect a union, and is spectacularly successful. It's a wonderful story, involving sex,
politics, and religion.

This is a mock-heroic example: the motif of suicidal despair resulting from love at first sight,
which is expected of exalted characters, is transferred to a man of low degree.

Dermot

On 6 Jun 2016 at 8:51, Andrew Ollett wrote:

I have the feeling that this is a relatively common motif in story literature. The one example
that comes to mind is the Prakrit verse romance Lilavati, in which one of the characters
(Kuvalayavali) has a "gandharva" wedding with a Gandharva (Citragada), and when her
father finds out and curses them, she is so overcome with shame that she tries to hang
herself from a tree. She is stopped at the last moment by her mother Rambha. This is around
v. 658 in A.N. Upadhye's edition.

On Mon, Jun 6, 2016 at 8:25 AM, Alex Watson <alex.watson at ashoka.edu.in<mailto:alex.watson at ashoka.edu.in>> wrote:
    Dear List Members

    A colleague, Madhavi Menon, who is writing a book entitled 'A History of Desire in
    India', has asked me the following question. All help appreciated; I will forward your
    responses to her.

    "Are there any narratives in Sanskrit/Buddhist literature/philosophy/history that talk
    about suicide, or atma-hatya, specifically in relation to love and desire?"

    Yours Alex

    --
    Alex Watson
    Professor of Indian Philosophy
    Ashoka University
    https://ashokauniversity.academia.edu/AlexWatson

    _______________________________________________
    INDOLOGY mailing list
    INDOLOGY at list.indology.info<mailto:INDOLOGY at list.indology.info>
    indology-owner at list.indology.info<mailto:indology-owner at list.indology.info> (messages to the list's managing committee)
    http://listinfo.indology.info<http://listinfo.indology.info/> (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe)


--
Dermot Killingley
9, Rectory Drive,
Gosforth,
Newcastle upon Tyne NE3 1XT
Phone (0191) 285 8053<tel:%280191%29%20285%208053>


_______________________________________________
INDOLOGY mailing list
INDOLOGY at list.indology.info<mailto:INDOLOGY at list.indology.info>
indology-owner at list.indology.info<mailto:indology-owner at list.indology.info> (messages to the list's managing committee)
http://listinfo.indology.info<http://listinfo.indology.info/> (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe)



--
Dr. Philipp A. Maas
Universit?tsassistent
Institut f?r S?dasien-, Tibet- und Buddhismuskunde
Universit?t Wien
Spitalgasse 2-4, Hof 2, Eingang 2.1
A-1090 Wien
?sterreich
univie.academia.edu/PhilippMaas<http://univie.academia.edu/PhilippMaas>
_______________________________________________
INDOLOGY mailing list
INDOLOGY at list.indology.info<mailto:INDOLOGY at list.indology.info>
indology-owner at list.indology.info<mailto:indology-owner at list.indology.info> (messages to the list's managing committee)
http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe)


_______________________________________________
INDOLOGY mailing list
INDOLOGY at list.indology.info<mailto:INDOLOGY at list.indology.info>
indology-owner at list.indology.info<mailto:indology-owner at list.indology.info> (messages to the list's managing committee)
http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe)



--
Madhav M. Deshpande
Professor of Sanskrit and Linguistics
Department of Asian Languages and Cultures
202 South Thayer Street, Suite 6111
The University of Michigan
Ann Arbor, MI 48104-1608, USA


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From mmdesh at umich.edu  Mon Jun  6 11:59:54 2016
From: mmdesh at umich.edu (Madhav Deshpande)
Date: Mon, 06 Jun 16 07:59:54 -0400
Subject: [INDOLOGY] suicide as a result of love
In-Reply-To: <95D7766C-3EC4-4859-A3F9-6835C2560F44@asia-europe.uni-heidelberg.de>
Message-ID: <CAB3-dzf0KygMj_xZ1tS4D0TCZK2kGvdOimthJHkQUy8TDcq-7w@mail.gmail.com>

Other examples may be Sat? burning herself at the sacrifice of her father
Dak?a, where her husband was insulted, and of Amb? burning hurself after
being rejected for marriage by Bh??ma in the Mahabharata.

Madhav Deshpande

On Mon, Jun 6, 2016 at 6:32 AM, Michaels, Axel <
michaels at asia-europe.uni-heidelberg.de> wrote:

> Perhaps this question would also include some cases of suttee. Se for
> instance Manadeva?s inscription (464 CE) in Cangu Narayan (Nepal):
>
> ?With affection (and) with a tearful face she addressed (her) son: "Your
> father went to heaven. O (my) son, as your father has gone today, what is
> the use of my breath [i.e. life]. Take over, o son, the kingdom! I (will)
> follow right now the path of my husband. What (use) is (it) for me to
> live without (my) husband by chains of hope made by the extension of
> (different) kinds of pleasures when the act of meeting is like an illusion
> and a dream. I will go!" Saying so, she (however) remained. Then she was
> addressed by her sorrowful son who had diligently pressed her feet against
> his head out of devotion: "What (to do) with pleasure, what with the joys
> of life when there is seperation from you? I will give up (my) life first,
> later I will go to heaven from here." With tears coming out from her
> lotus-like face, with a net made out of words she became like a trapped
> and tied bird, (and) therefore she remained. After she had, together with
> her noble son, performed her husband's obsequies she (lived) by the rules
> of good conduct, chastity, fasting (and) with a totally cleaned mind; (
> moreover) she always gave wealth to the brahmins to increase (her late
> husband's) merit, she remained, with him in her mind, according to the
> rule of the sat? vow (so that) she really was like Arundhat?.? (Trans.
> Th. Riccardi)
>
>
> Axel Michaels
>
>
> Von: INDOLOGY <indology-bounces at list.indology.info> im Auftrag von "
> mmdesh at umich.edu" <mmdesh at umich.edu>
> Datum: Montag, 6. Juni 2016 um 12:24
> An: Klaus Karttunen <klaus.karttunen at helsinki.fi>
> Cc: "indology at list.indology.info" <indology at list.indology.info>
> Betreff: Re: [INDOLOGY] suicide as a result of love
>
> In the Nalop?khy?na (in the Sanskrit Reader, Charles Lanman, p. 9-10) from
> the Mahabharata, Damayant? threatens to kill herself, if rejected by Nala.
> She refers to four alternatives to kill herself:  yadi tvam bhajam?n?m m?m
> praty?khy?syasi m?nada / vi?am agnim jalam rajjum ?sth?sye tava k?ra??t //,
> "O, Giver of Honor, if you reject me who is devoted to you, then on account
> of you, I will resort to poison, or fire, or water, or a rope."
>
> Madhav Deshpande
>
> On Mon, Jun 6, 2016 at 5:46 AM, Klaus Karttunen <
> klaus.karttunen at helsinki.fi> wrote:
>
>> Dear all,
>> in Har?a?s Ratn?val? S?garik? ? sure that her love to the king is
>> unsuccesful ? will hang herself, but luckily the king arrives in time and
>> saves her. There are certainly many other examples.
>>
>> Best,
>> Klaus
>>
>> Klaus Karttunen
>> South Asian and Indoeuropean Studies
>> Asian and African Studies, Department of World Cultures
>> PL 59 (Unioninkatu 38 B)
>> 00014 University of Helsinki, FINLAND
>> Tel +358-(0)2941 4482418
>> Fax +358-(0)2941 22094
>> Klaus.Karttunen at helsinki.fi
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 06 Jun 2016, at 11:50, Philipp Maas <philipp.a.maas at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Dear Dermot and all,
>>
>> The story of the ?Weaver as Vi??u? occurs indeed in P?rnabhadra?s
>> recension of the Pata?catntra as well as in the exemplar of this recension,
>> the so-called *textus simplicior*. P?rnabhadra censored the narrative
>> strongly from the perspective of conservative sm?rta-Hinduism and left out
>> the motive of suicide out of desire for the princess, which, accordingly
>> only occurs in the *textus simplicior*.
>>
>>
>> For a more comprehensive analysis of the two versions of the narrative
>> see my ?On Discourses of Dharma and the Pa?catantra.? *Wiener
>> Zeitschrift f?r die Kunde S?dasiens* 55 (2013-2014), p. 5-31, of which
>> you find a pre-print draft version here
>> <https://www.academia.edu/13986474/On_Discourses_of_Dharma_and_the_Pa%C3%B1catantra>
>> .
>>
>>
>> Best wishes,
>>
>>
>> Philipp
>>
>>
>> 2016-06-06 10:09 GMT+02:00 <dermot at grevatt.force9.co.uk>:
>>
>>> In Purnabhadra's version of the Pancatantra (ed. Hertel 1908 pp. 46-55;
>>> tr. A.W. Ryder 1956,
>>> pp. 89-104), a weaver falls in love with a princess, swoons, then
>>> resolves on suicide by fire.
>>> He is saved by his friend, a chariot-builder or carpenter (rathakAra),
>>> who promises to use his
>>> skill to effect a union, and is spectacularly successful. It's a
>>> wonderful story, involving sex,
>>> politics, and religion.
>>>
>>> This is a mock-heroic example: the motif of suicidal despair resulting
>>> from love at first sight,
>>> which is expected of exalted characters, is transferred to a man of low
>>> degree.
>>>
>>> Dermot
>>>
>>> On 6 Jun 2016 at 8:51, Andrew Ollett wrote:
>>>
>>> I have the feeling that this is a relatively common motif in story
>>> literature. The one example
>>> that comes to mind is the Prakrit verse romance Lilavati, in which one
>>> of the characters
>>> (Kuvalayavali) has a "gandharva" wedding with a Gandharva (Citragada),
>>> and when her
>>> father finds out and curses them, she is so overcome with shame that she
>>> tries to hang
>>> herself from a tree. She is stopped at the last moment by her mother
>>> Rambha. This is around
>>> v. 658 in A.N. Upadhye's edition.
>>>
>>> On Mon, Jun 6, 2016 at 8:25 AM, Alex Watson <alex.watson at ashoka.edu.in>
>>> wrote:
>>>     Dear List Members
>>>
>>>     A colleague, Madhavi Menon, who is writing a book entitled 'A
>>> History of Desire in
>>>     India', has asked me the following question. All help appreciated; I
>>> will forward your
>>>     responses to her.
>>>
>>>     "Are there any narratives in Sanskrit/Buddhist
>>> literature/philosophy/history that talk
>>>     about suicide, or atma-hatya, specifically in relation to love and
>>> desire?"
>>>
>>>     Yours Alex
>>>
>>>     --
>>>     Alex Watson
>>>     Professor of Indian Philosophy
>>>     Ashoka University
>>>     https://ashokauniversity.academia.edu/AlexWatson
>>>
>>>     _______________________________________________
>>>     INDOLOGY mailing list
>>>     INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>>>     indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
>>> committee)
>>>     http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list
>>> options or unsubscribe)
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Dermot Killingley
>>> 9, Rectory Drive,
>>> Gosforth,
>>> Newcastle upon Tyne NE3 1XT
>>> Phone (0191) 285 8053
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
>>> committee)
>>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options
>>> or unsubscribe)
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Dr. Philipp A. Maas
>> Universit?tsassistent
>> Institut f?r S?dasien-, Tibet- und Buddhismuskunde
>> Universit?t Wien
>> Spitalgasse 2-4, Hof 2, Eingang 2.1
>> A-1090 Wien
>> ?sterreich
>> univie.academia.edu/PhilippMaas
>> _______________________________________________
>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
>> committee)
>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
>> unsubscribe)
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
>> committee)
>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
>> unsubscribe)
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Madhav M. Deshpande
> Professor of Sanskrit and Linguistics
> Department of Asian Languages and Cultures
> 202 South Thayer Street, Suite 6111
> The University of Michigan
> Ann Arbor, MI 48104-1608, USA
>
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
> committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
> unsubscribe)
>



-- 
Madhav M. Deshpande
Professor of Sanskrit and Linguistics
Department of Asian Languages and Cultures
202 South Thayer Street, Suite 6111
The University of Michigan
Ann Arbor, MI 48104-1608, USA


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From vjroebuck at btinternet.com  Mon Jun  6 12:29:41 2016
From: vjroebuck at btinternet.com (Valerie Roebuck)
Date: Mon, 06 Jun 16 13:29:41 +0100
Subject: [INDOLOGY] suicide as a result of love
In-Reply-To: <CAB3-dzf0KygMj_xZ1tS4D0TCZK2kGvdOimthJHkQUy8TDcq-7w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <D95C4953-AE74-4803-9BD6-C65F954AEB92@btinternet.com>

In Buddhist commentarial literature, we have examples like that of Bhadd? Ku??alakes? (Dhammapada commentary on vv 102-3), a well-brought-up girl who falls in love with a convicted bandit on his way to execution, and embarks on a hunger-strike to force her parents to let her marry him. (Spoilers: it doesn?t work out very well.)

Valerie J Roebuck
Manchester, UK

 

> On 6 Jun 2016, at 12:59, Madhav Deshpande <mmdesh at umich.edu> wrote:
> 
> Other examples may be Sat? burning herself at the sacrifice of her father Dak?a, where her husband was insulted, and of Amb? burning hurself after being rejected for marriage by Bh??ma in the Mahabharata.
> 
> Madhav Deshpande
> 
> On Mon, Jun 6, 2016 at 6:32 AM, Michaels, Axel <michaels at asia-europe.uni-heidelberg.de <mailto:michaels at asia-europe.uni-heidelberg.de>> wrote:
> Perhaps this question would also include some cases of suttee. Se for instance Manadeva?s inscription (464 CE) in Cangu Narayan (Nepal):
> 
> ?With affection (and) with a tearful face she addressed (her) son: "Your father went to heaven. O (my) son, as your father has gone today, what is the use of my breath [i.e. life]. Take over, o son, the kingdom! I (will) follow right now the path of my husband. What (use) is (it) for me to live without (my) husband by chains of hope made by the extension of (different) kinds of pleasures when the act of meeting is like an illusion and a dream. I will go!" Saying so, she (however) remained. Then she was addressed by her sorrowful son who had diligently pressed her feet against his head out of devotion: "What (to do) with pleasure, what with the joys of life when there is seperation from you? I will give up (my) life first, later I will go to heaven from here." With tears coming out from her lotus-like face, with a net made out of words she became like a trapped and tied bird, (and) therefore she remained. After she had, together with her noble son, performed her husband's obsequies she (lived) by the rules of good conduct, chastity, fasting (and) with a totally cleaned mind; (moreover) she always gave wealth to the brahmins to increase (her late husband's) merit, she remained, with him in her mind, according to the rule of the sat? vow (so that) she really was like Arundhat?.? (Trans. Th. Riccardi)
> 
> Axel Michaels
> 
> 
> Von: INDOLOGY <indology-bounces at list.indology.info <mailto:indology-bounces at list.indology.info>> im Auftrag von "mmdesh at umich.edu <mailto:mmdesh at umich.edu>" <mmdesh at umich.edu <mailto:mmdesh at umich.edu>>
> Datum: Montag, 6. Juni 2016 um 12:24
> An: Klaus Karttunen <klaus.karttunen at helsinki.fi <mailto:klaus.karttunen at helsinki.fi>>
> Cc: "indology at list.indology.info <mailto:indology at list.indology.info>" <indology at list.indology.info <mailto:indology at list.indology.info>>
> Betreff: Re: [INDOLOGY] suicide as a result of love
> 
> In the Nalop?khy?na (in the Sanskrit Reader, Charles Lanman, p. 9-10) from the Mahabharata, Damayant? threatens to kill herself, if rejected by Nala.  She refers to four alternatives to kill herself:  yadi tvam bhajam?n?m m?m praty?khy?syasi m?nada / vi?am agnim jalam rajjum ?sth?sye tava k?ra??t //, "O, Giver of Honor, if you reject me who is devoted to you, then on account of you, I will resort to poison, or fire, or water, or a rope."  
> 
> Madhav Deshpande
> 
> On Mon, Jun 6, 2016 at 5:46 AM, Klaus Karttunen <klaus.karttunen at helsinki.fi <mailto:klaus.karttunen at helsinki.fi>> wrote:
> Dear all,
> in Har?a?s Ratn?val? S?garik? ? sure that her love to the king is unsuccesful ? will hang herself, but luckily the king arrives in time and saves her. There are certainly many other examples.
> 
> Best,
> Klaus
> 
> Klaus Karttunen
> South Asian and Indoeuropean Studies
> Asian and African Studies, Department of World Cultures
> PL 59 (Unioninkatu 38 B)
> 00014 University of Helsinki, FINLAND
> Tel +358-(0)2941 4482418
> Fax +358-(0)2941 22094
> Klaus.Karttunen at helsinki.fi <mailto:Klaus.Karttunen at helsinki.fi>
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>> On 06 Jun 2016, at 11:50, Philipp Maas <philipp.a.maas at gmail.com <mailto:philipp.a.maas at gmail.com>> wrote:
>> 
>> Dear Dermot and all,
>> 
>> The story of the ?Weaver as Vi??u? occurs indeed in P?rnabhadra?s recension of the Pata?catntra as well as in the exemplar of this recension, the so-called textus simplicior. P?rnabhadra censored the narrative strongly from the perspective of conservative sm?rta-Hinduism and left out the motive of suicide out of desire for the princess, which, accordingly only occurs in the textus simplicior.
>> 
>>  
>> For a more comprehensive analysis of the two versions of the narrative see my ?On Discourses of Dharma and the Pa?catantra.? Wiener Zeitschrift f?r die Kunde S?dasiens 55 (2013-2014), p. 5-31, of which you find a pre-print draft version here <https://www.academia.edu/13986474/On_Discourses_of_Dharma_and_the_Pa%C3%B1catantra>.
>> 
>>  
>> Best wishes,
>> 
>>  
>> Philipp
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 2016-06-06 10:09 GMT+02:00 <dermot at grevatt.force9.co.uk <mailto:dermot at grevatt.force9.co.uk>>:
>> In Purnabhadra's version of the Pancatantra (ed. Hertel 1908 pp. 46-55; tr. A.W. Ryder 1956,
>> pp. 89-104), a weaver falls in love with a princess, swoons, then resolves on suicide by fire.
>> He is saved by his friend, a chariot-builder or carpenter (rathakAra), who promises to use his
>> skill to effect a union, and is spectacularly successful. It's a wonderful story, involving sex,
>> politics, and religion.
>> 
>> This is a mock-heroic example: the motif of suicidal despair resulting from love at first sight,
>> which is expected of exalted characters, is transferred to a man of low degree.
>> 
>> Dermot
>> 
>> On 6 Jun 2016 at 8:51, Andrew Ollett wrote:
>> 
>> I have the feeling that this is a relatively common motif in story literature. The one example
>> that comes to mind is the Prakrit verse romance Lilavati, in which one of the characters
>> (Kuvalayavali) has a "gandharva" wedding with a Gandharva (Citragada), and when her
>> father finds out and curses them, she is so overcome with shame that she tries to hang
>> herself from a tree. She is stopped at the last moment by her mother Rambha. This is around
>> v. 658 in A.N. Upadhye's edition.
>> 
>> On Mon, Jun 6, 2016 at 8:25 AM, Alex Watson <alex.watson at ashoka.edu.in <mailto:alex.watson at ashoka.edu.in>> wrote:
>>     Dear List Members
>> 
>>     A colleague, Madhavi Menon, who is writing a book entitled 'A History of Desire in
>>     India', has asked me the following question. All help appreciated; I will forward your
>>     responses to her.
>> 
>>     "Are there any narratives in Sanskrit/Buddhist literature/philosophy/history that talk
>>     about suicide, or atma-hatya, specifically in relation to love and desire?"
>> 
>>     Yours Alex
>> 
>>     --
>>     Alex Watson
>>     Professor of Indian Philosophy
>>     Ashoka University
>>     https://ashokauniversity.academia.edu/AlexWatson <https://ashokauniversity.academia.edu/AlexWatson>
>> 
>>     _______________________________________________
>>     INDOLOGY mailing list
>>     INDOLOGY at list.indology.info <mailto:INDOLOGY at list.indology.info>
>>     indology-owner at list.indology.info <mailto:indology-owner at list.indology.info> (messages to the list's managing committee)
>>     http://listinfo.indology.info <http://listinfo.indology.info/> (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe)
>> 
>> 
>> --
>> Dermot Killingley
>> 9, Rectory Drive,
>> Gosforth,
>> Newcastle upon Tyne NE3 1XT
>> Phone (0191) 285 8053 <tel:%280191%29%20285%208053>
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info <mailto:INDOLOGY at list.indology.info>
>> indology-owner at list.indology.info <mailto:indology-owner at list.indology.info> (messages to the list's managing committee)
>> http://listinfo.indology.info <http://listinfo.indology.info/> (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe)
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> -- 
>> Dr. Philipp A. Maas
>> Universit?tsassistent
>> Institut f?r S?dasien-, Tibet- und Buddhismuskunde
>> Universit?t Wien
>> Spitalgasse 2-4, Hof 2, Eingang 2.1
>> A-1090 Wien
>> ?sterreich
>> univie.academia.edu/PhilippMaas <http://univie.academia.edu/PhilippMaas>
>> _______________________________________________
>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info <mailto:INDOLOGY at list.indology.info>
>> indology-owner at list.indology.info <mailto:indology-owner at list.indology.info> (messages to the list's managing committee)
>> http://listinfo.indology.info <http://listinfo.indology.info/> (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe)
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info <mailto:INDOLOGY at list.indology.info>
> indology-owner at list.indology.info <mailto:indology-owner at list.indology.info> (messages to the list's managing committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info <http://listinfo.indology.info/> (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe)
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Madhav M. Deshpande
> Professor of Sanskrit and Linguistics
> Department of Asian Languages and Cultures
> 202 South Thayer Street, Suite 6111
> The University of Michigan
> Ann Arbor, MI 48104-1608, USA
> 
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info <mailto:INDOLOGY at list.indology.info>
> indology-owner at list.indology.info <mailto:indology-owner at list.indology.info> (messages to the list's managing committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info <http://listinfo.indology.info/> (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe)
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Madhav M. Deshpande
> Professor of Sanskrit and Linguistics
> Department of Asian Languages and Cultures
> 202 South Thayer Street, Suite 6111
> The University of Michigan
> Ann Arbor, MI 48104-1608, USA
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe)



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From samparkdev at gmail.com  Mon Jun  6 12:59:42 2016
From: samparkdev at gmail.com (Diwakar singh)
Date: Mon, 06 Jun 16 18:29:42 +0530
Subject: [INDOLOGY] suicide as a result of love
In-Reply-To: <D95C4953-AE74-4803-9BD6-C65F954AEB92@btinternet.com>
Message-ID: <CAEr6jMXaczMM0_y8gjLMasOpYJzc+Pfb7pM9A04OdwbF1_9Y7g@mail.gmail.com>

There are several narrative that talks about suicide in Buddhist contexts,
for instance the Avadanasataka  contains a story of a  brahmin named
Gangika who wanted to enter into monastic order however he was denied by
his Parent to do so. And the necessary permission was not granted by his
parent and the story suggests that in order to get the opportunity to
become monk he repeatedly tried to commit suicide.

On Mon, Jun 6, 2016 at 5:59 PM, Valerie Roebuck <vjroebuck at btinternet.com>
wrote:

> In Buddhist commentarial literature, we have examples like that of Bhadd?
> Ku??alakes? (Dhammapada commentary on vv 102-3), a well-brought-up girl who
> falls in love with a convicted bandit on his way to execution, and embarks
> on a hunger-strike to force her parents to let her marry him. (Spoilers: it
> doesn?t work out very well.)
>
> Valerie J Roebuck
> Manchester, UK
>
>
>
>
> On 6 Jun 2016, at 12:59, Madhav Deshpande <mmdesh at umich.edu> wrote:
>
> Other examples may be Sat? burning herself at the sacrifice of her father
> Dak?a, where her husband was insulted, and of Amb? burning hurself after
> being rejected for marriage by Bh??ma in the Mahabharata.
>
> Madhav Deshpande
>
> On Mon, Jun 6, 2016 at 6:32 AM, Michaels, Axel <
> michaels at asia-europe.uni-heidelberg.de> wrote:
>
>> Perhaps this question would also include some cases of suttee. Se for
>> instance Manadeva?s inscription (464 CE) in Cangu Narayan (Nepal):
>>
>> ?With affection (and) with a tearful face she addressed (her) son: "Your
>> father went to heaven. O (my) son, as your father has gone today, what is
>> the use of my breath [i.e. life]. Take over, o son, the kingdom! I
>> (will) follow right now the path of my husband. What (use) is (it) for me
>> to live without (my) husband by chains of hope made by the extension of
>> (different) kinds of pleasures when the act of meeting is like an
>> illusion and a dream. I will go!" Saying so, she (however) remained. Then
>> she was addressed by her sorrowful son who had diligently pressed her
>> feet against his head out of devotion: "What (to do) with pleasure, what
>> with the joys of life when there is seperation from you? I will give up (
>> my) life first, later I will go to heaven from here." With tears coming
>> out from her lotus-like face, with a net made out of words she became
>> like a trapped and tied bird, (and) therefore she remained. After she had,
>> together with her noble son, performed her husband's obsequies she (lived)
>> by the rules of good conduct, chastity, fasting (and) with a totally
>> cleaned mind; (moreover) she always gave wealth to the brahmins to
>> increase (her late husband's) merit, she remained, with him in her mind,
>> according to the rule of the sat? vow (so that) she really was like
>> Arundhat?.? (Trans. Th. Riccardi)
>>
>> Axel Michaels
>>
>>
>> Von: INDOLOGY <indology-bounces at list.indology.info> im Auftrag von "
>> mmdesh at umich.edu" <mmdesh at umich.edu>
>> Datum: Montag, 6. Juni 2016 um 12:24
>> An: Klaus Karttunen <klaus.karttunen at helsinki.fi>
>> Cc: "indology at list.indology.info" <indology at list.indology.info>
>> Betreff: Re: [INDOLOGY] suicide as a result of love
>>
>> In the Nalop?khy?na (in the Sanskrit Reader, Charles Lanman, p. 9-10)
>> from the Mahabharata, Damayant? threatens to kill herself, if rejected by
>> Nala.  She refers to four alternatives to kill herself:  yadi tvam
>> bhajam?n?m m?m praty?khy?syasi m?nada / vi?am agnim jalam rajjum ?sth?sye
>> tava k?ra??t //, "O, Giver of Honor, if you reject me who is devoted to
>> you, then on account of you, I will resort to poison, or fire, or water, or
>> a rope."
>>
>> Madhav Deshpande
>>
>> On Mon, Jun 6, 2016 at 5:46 AM, Klaus Karttunen <
>> klaus.karttunen at helsinki.fi> wrote:
>>
>>> Dear all,
>>> in Har?a?s Ratn?val? S?garik? ? sure that her love to the king is
>>> unsuccesful ? will hang herself, but luckily the king arrives in time and
>>> saves her. There are certainly many other examples.
>>>
>>> Best,
>>> Klaus
>>>
>>> Klaus Karttunen
>>> South Asian and Indoeuropean Studies
>>> Asian and African Studies, Department of World Cultures
>>> PL 59 (Unioninkatu 38 B)
>>> 00014 University of Helsinki, FINLAND
>>> Tel +358-(0)2941 4482418
>>> Fax +358-(0)2941 22094
>>> Klaus.Karttunen at helsinki.fi
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 06 Jun 2016, at 11:50, Philipp Maas <philipp.a.maas at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> Dear Dermot and all,
>>>
>>> The story of the ?Weaver as Vi??u? occurs indeed in P?rnabhadra?s
>>> recension of the Pata?catntra as well as in the exemplar of this recension,
>>> the so-called *textus simplicior*. P?rnabhadra censored the narrative
>>> strongly from the perspective of conservative sm?rta-Hinduism and left out
>>> the motive of suicide out of desire for the princess, which, accordingly
>>> only occurs in the *textus simplicior*.
>>>
>>>
>>> For a more comprehensive analysis of the two versions of the narrative
>>> see my ?On Discourses of Dharma and the Pa?catantra.? *Wiener
>>> Zeitschrift f?r die Kunde S?dasiens* 55 (2013-2014), p. 5-31, of which
>>> you find a pre-print draft version here
>>> <https://www.academia.edu/13986474/On_Discourses_of_Dharma_and_the_Pa%C3%B1catantra>
>>> .
>>>
>>>
>>> Best wishes,
>>>
>>>
>>> Philipp
>>>
>>>
>>> 2016-06-06 10:09 GMT+02:00 <dermot at grevatt.force9.co.uk>:
>>>
>>>> In Purnabhadra's version of the Pancatantra (ed. Hertel 1908 pp. 46-55;
>>>> tr. A.W. Ryder 1956,
>>>> pp. 89-104), a weaver falls in love with a princess, swoons, then
>>>> resolves on suicide by fire.
>>>> He is saved by his friend, a chariot-builder or carpenter (rathakAra),
>>>> who promises to use his
>>>> skill to effect a union, and is spectacularly successful. It's a
>>>> wonderful story, involving sex,
>>>> politics, and religion.
>>>>
>>>> This is a mock-heroic example: the motif of suicidal despair resulting
>>>> from love at first sight,
>>>> which is expected of exalted characters, is transferred to a man of low
>>>> degree.
>>>>
>>>> Dermot
>>>>
>>>> On 6 Jun 2016 at 8:51, Andrew Ollett wrote:
>>>>
>>>> I have the feeling that this is a relatively common motif in story
>>>> literature. The one example
>>>> that comes to mind is the Prakrit verse romance Lilavati, in which one
>>>> of the characters
>>>> (Kuvalayavali) has a "gandharva" wedding with a Gandharva (Citragada),
>>>> and when her
>>>> father finds out and curses them, she is so overcome with shame that
>>>> she tries to hang
>>>> herself from a tree. She is stopped at the last moment by her mother
>>>> Rambha. This is around
>>>> v. 658 in A.N. Upadhye's edition.
>>>>
>>>> On Mon, Jun 6, 2016 at 8:25 AM, Alex Watson <alex.watson at ashoka.edu.in>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>     Dear List Members
>>>>
>>>>     A colleague, Madhavi Menon, who is writing a book entitled 'A
>>>> History of Desire in
>>>>     India', has asked me the following question. All help appreciated;
>>>> I will forward your
>>>>     responses to her.
>>>>
>>>>     "Are there any narratives in Sanskrit/Buddhist
>>>> literature/philosophy/history that talk
>>>>     about suicide, or atma-hatya, specifically in relation to love and
>>>> desire?"
>>>>
>>>>     Yours Alex
>>>>
>>>>     --
>>>>     Alex Watson
>>>>     Professor of Indian Philosophy
>>>>     Ashoka University
>>>>     https://ashokauniversity.academia.edu/AlexWatson
>>>>
>>>>     _______________________________________________
>>>>     INDOLOGY mailing list
>>>>     INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>>>>     indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
>>>> committee)
>>>>     http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list
>>>> options or unsubscribe)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Dermot Killingley
>>>> 9, Rectory Drive,
>>>> Gosforth,
>>>> Newcastle upon Tyne NE3 1XT
>>>> Phone (0191) 285 8053
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>>>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>>>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
>>>> committee)
>>>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options
>>>> or unsubscribe)
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Dr. Philipp A. Maas
>>> Universit?tsassistent
>>> Institut f?r S?dasien-, Tibet- und Buddhismuskunde
>>> Universit?t Wien
>>> Spitalgasse 2-4, Hof 2, Eingang 2.1
>>> A-1090 Wien
>>> ?sterreich
>>> univie.academia.edu/PhilippMaas
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
>>> committee)
>>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options
>>> or unsubscribe)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
>>> committee)
>>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options
>>> or unsubscribe)
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Madhav M. Deshpande
>> Professor of Sanskrit and Linguistics
>> Department of Asian Languages and Cultures
>> 202 South Thayer Street, Suite 6111
>> The University of Michigan
>> Ann Arbor, MI 48104-1608, USA
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
>> committee)
>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
>> unsubscribe)
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Madhav M. Deshpande
> Professor of Sanskrit and Linguistics
> Department of Asian Languages and Cultures
> 202 South Thayer Street, Suite 6111
> The University of Michigan
> Ann Arbor, MI 48104-1608, USA
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
> committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
> unsubscribe)
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
> committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
> unsubscribe)
>


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From jacob at fabularasa.dk  Mon Jun  6 13:32:43 2016
From: jacob at fabularasa.dk (jacob at fabularasa.dk)
Date: Mon, 06 Jun 16 15:32:43 +0200
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Request for help to identify deity
Message-ID: <401f43b07408887eaf7100372b32ee68@fabularasa.dk>

Dear all,

I need help identifying the intended deity in the center of the attached 
top panel from a gy?n caupa? (Snakes & Ladders) chart. The spot is 
usually reserved for Vi??u/K???a (Vaiku??ha is in sq. 68 below), but I 
wonder if here it might be a second ?iva, his son K?rttikeya, or someone 
else entirely.

Any suggestions would be much appreciated.

Kind regards,
Jacob

Jacob Schmidt-Madsen
PhD Fellow (Indology)
Department of Cross-Cultural and Regional Studies
University of Copenhagen
Denmark
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From dermot at grevatt.force9.co.uk  Mon Jun  6 17:12:07 2016
From: dermot at grevatt.force9.co.uk (dermot at grevatt.force9.co.uk)
Date: Mon, 06 Jun 16 18:12:07 +0100
Subject: [INDOLOGY] suicide as a result of love
In-Reply-To: <C3F48E34-233E-443F-8773-E6BDA15E2F07@helsinki.fi>
Message-ID: <5755AEE7.19598.242C952@dermot.grevatt.force9.co.uk>

Dear Philipp,

Thank you for the correction: the suicide motif is not in the Purnabhadra version.

Dermot

On 6 Jun 2016 at 12:46, Klaus Karttunen wrote:

Dear all,
in Hara's Ratnavali Sagarika - sure that her love to the king is unsuccesful - will hang 
herself, but luckily the king arrives in time and saves her. There are certainly many other 
examples.

Best,
Klaus

Klaus Karttunen
South Asian and Indoeuropean Studies
Asian and African Studies, Department of World Cultures
PL 59 (Unioninkatu 38 B)
00014 University of Helsinki, FINLAND
Tel +358-(0)2941 4482418
Fax +358-(0)2941 22094
Klaus.Karttunen at helsinki.fi






    On 06 Jun 2016, at 11:50, Philipp Maas <philipp.a.maas at gmail.com> wrote:

    Dear Dermot and all,
    The story of the "Weaver as Viu" occurs indeed in 
    Purnabhadra's recension of the Pata?catntra as well as in the 
    exemplar of this recension, the so-called textus simplicior. 
    Purnabhadra censored the narrative strongly from the 
    perspective of conservative smarta-Hinduism and left out the 
    motive of suicide out of desire for the princess, which, 
    accordingly only occurs in the textus simplicior.

    For a more comprehensive analysis of the two versions of the 
    narrative see my "On Discourses of Dharma and the 
    Pa?catantra." Wiener Zeitschrift f?r die Kunde S?dasiens 55 
    (2013-2014), p. 5-31, of which you find a pre-print draft 
    version here.

    Best wishes,

    Philipp


    2016-06-06 10:09 GMT+02:00 <dermot at grevatt.force9.co.uk>:
    In Purnabhadra's version of the Pancatantra (ed. Hertel 1908 pp. 46-55; tr. A.W. 
    Ryder 1956,
    pp. 89-104), a weaver falls in love with a princess, swoons, then resolves on 
    suicide by fire.
    He is saved by his friend, a chariot-builder or carpenter (rathakAra), who 
    promises to use his
    skill to effect a union, and is spectacularly successful. It's a wonderful story, 
    involving sex,
    politics, and religion.
    
    This is a mock-heroic example: the motif of suicidal despair resulting from love at 
    first sight,
    which is expected of exalted characters, is transferred to a man of low degree.
    
    Dermot
    
    On 6 Jun 2016 at 8:51, Andrew Ollett wrote:
    
    I have the feeling that this is a relatively common motif in story literature. The one 
    example
    that comes to mind is the Prakrit verse romance Lilavati, in which one of the 
    characters
    (Kuvalayavali) has a "gandharva" wedding with a Gandharva (Citragada), and 
    when her
    father finds out and curses them, she is so overcome with shame that she tries to 
    hang
    herself from a tree. She is stopped at the last moment by her mother Rambha. 
    This is around
    v. 658 in A.N. Upadhye's edition.
    
    On Mon, Jun 6, 2016 at 8:25 AM, Alex Watson <alex.watson at ashoka.edu.in> 
    wrote:
    Dear List Members
    
    A colleague, Madhavi Menon, who is writing a book entitled 'A History of Desire in
    India', has asked me the following question. All help appreciated; I will forward 
    your
    responses to her.
    
    "Are there any narratives in Sanskrit/Buddhist literature/philosophy/history that 
    talk
    about suicide, or atma-hatya, specifically in relation to love and desire?"
    
    Yours Alex
    
    --
    Alex Watson
    Professor of Indian Philosophy
    Ashoka University
    https://ashokauniversity.academia.edu/AlexWatson
    
    _______________________________________________
    INDOLOGY mailing list
    INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
    indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee)
    http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or 
    unsubscribe)
    
    
    --
    Dermot Killingley
    9, Rectory Drive,
    Gosforth,
    Newcastle upon Tyne NE3 1XT
    Phone (0191) 285 8053
    
    
    _______________________________________________
    INDOLOGY mailing list
    INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
    indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee)
    http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or 
    unsubscribe)
    
    
    --
    Dr. Philipp A. Maas
    Universit?tsassistent
    Institut f?r S?dasien-, Tibet- und Buddhismuskunde
    Universit?t Wien
    Spitalgasse 2-4, Hof 2, Eingang 2.1
    A-1090 Wien
    ?sterreich
    univie.academia.edu/PhilippMaas
    _______________________________________________
    INDOLOGY mailing list
    INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
    indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee)
    http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe)


-- 
Dermot Killingley
9, Rectory Drive,
Gosforth,
Newcastle upon Tyne NE3 1XT
Phone (0191) 285 8053






From rajam at earthlink.net  Mon Jun  6 17:52:11 2016
From: rajam at earthlink.net (rajam)
Date: Mon, 06 Jun 16 10:52:11 -0700
Subject: [INDOLOGY] suicide as a result of love
In-Reply-To: <CAEr6jMXaczMM0_y8gjLMasOpYJzc+Pfb7pM9A04OdwbF1_9Y7g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <6923CDEA-2C83-42B1-B230-6403DF9B1C76@earthlink.net>

Somewhat a different scene on the Tamil side, as usual! The narrations are not just about romantic-love but about feelings for loved-ones also.

1. In the Tamil version of the Ramayana (that is, Kambaramayana) ? Devi Sita was about to commit suicide since Rama hadn?t yet come to her rescue from Ravana?s captivity. That was when Rama?s messenger Hanuman appeared and assured her that Rama would be there soon.

2. In the (Jain?) epic Silappatikaram, as the aftermath of the unlawful killing of the hero Kovalan, many women who were associated with Kovalan and his wife Kannaki commit suicide through several means ? the Jain ascetic Kavunti (???????) by fasting (?sallekhana"), their shepherd-hostess Madhari (?????) by 'plunging into the fire,? and Kovalan?s  mother and Kannaki?s mother virtually enduring misery.  

2. In the Buddhist epic Manimekalai, in Manimekelai?s previous birth, one of her sisters (t?rai) committed suicide by falling from the terrace of their palace because their another sister (v?rai) was killed by an untrained elephant when she was drunk.

3. In the same epic Manimekalai, we read about one ?tirai (?????) who tried to commit suicide as a ?sati? because she thought her husband died in a commercial ship-wreck. 

4. The same epic Manimekalai talks about ?puttira? (??????????) whom I?d say is the very soul of the epic. This man actually "missed the boat (not idiomatically)? when he was on a trip to Java from South India for serving the community there. He missed the ship and was stuck in an island where he found no one to serve. So he committed suicide by fasting. Later on, the nine merchants who travelled with him, realizing that he was missing, came in search of him and found him dead. So, they all committed suicide by fasting. 

5. Later on in folklore, we hear about a woman named nallata?k?? (???????????) who suffered poverty and threw her 7-children into a well and committed suicide by falling into the well.

++++++++++

Interesting facts from my perspective are:

1. Women committing suicide by jumping into the fire was instituted by the Vedic culture.

2. In none of the narratives do I find any man committing suicide for anyone?s sake in their personal life. Of course, there are reports about men dying in war for the sake of their country. 

3. While the Jain system approves suicide, the Buddhist system condemns it. Proof is in Manimekalai. In the epic Manimekalai, ?puttira? (??????????) is condemned for committing suicide and his action being a cause for the suicide of nine other merchants.

Eager to learn more.

Thanks and regards,
rajam




> On Jun 6, 2016, at 5:59 AM, Diwakar singh <samparkdev at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> There are several narrative that talks about suicide in Buddhist contexts, for instance the Avadanasataka  contains a story of a  brahmin named Gangika who wanted to enter into monastic order however he was denied by his Parent to do so. And the necessary permission was not granted by his parent and the story suggests that in order to get the opportunity to become monk he repeatedly tried to commit suicide. 
> 
> On Mon, Jun 6, 2016 at 5:59 PM, Valerie Roebuck <vjroebuck at btinternet.com <mailto:vjroebuck at btinternet.com>> wrote:
> In Buddhist commentarial literature, we have examples like that of Bhadd? Ku??alakes? (Dhammapada commentary on vv 102-3), a well-brought-up girl who falls in love with a convicted bandit on his way to execution, and embarks on a hunger-strike to force her parents to let her marry him. (Spoilers: it doesn?t work out very well.)
> 
> Valerie J Roebuck
> Manchester, UK
> 
> 
>  
> 
>> On 6 Jun 2016, at 12:59, Madhav Deshpande <mmdesh at umich.edu <mailto:mmdesh at umich.edu>> wrote:
>> 
>> Other examples may be Sat? burning herself at the sacrifice of her father Dak?a, where her husband was insulted, and of Amb? burning hurself after being rejected for marriage by Bh??ma in the Mahabharata.
>> 
>> Madhav Deshpande
>> 
>> On Mon, Jun 6, 2016 at 6:32 AM, Michaels, Axel <michaels at asia-europe.uni-heidelberg.de <mailto:michaels at asia-europe.uni-heidelberg.de>> wrote:
>> Perhaps this question would also include some cases of suttee. Se for instance Manadeva?s inscription (464 CE) in Cangu Narayan (Nepal):
>> 
>> ?With affection (and) with a tearful face she addressed (her) son: "Your father went to heaven. O (my) son, as your father has gone today, what is the use of my breath [i.e. life]. Take over, o son, the kingdom! I (will) follow right now the path of my husband. What (use) is (it) for me to live without (my) husband by chains of hope made by the extension of (different) kinds of pleasures when the act of meeting is like an illusion and a dream. I will go!" Saying so, she (however) remained. Then she was addressed by her sorrowful son who had diligently pressed her feet against his head out of devotion: "What (to do) with pleasure, what with the joys of life when there is seperation from you? I will give up (my) life first, later I will go to heaven from here." With tears coming out from her lotus-like face, with a net made out of words she became like a trapped and tied bird, (and) therefore she remained. After she had, together with her noble son, performed her husband's obsequies she (lived) by the rules of good conduct, chastity, fasting (and) with a totally cleaned mind; (moreover) she always gave wealth to the brahmins to increase (her late husband's) merit, she remained, with him in her mind, according to the rule of the sat? vow (so that) she really was like Arundhat?.? (Trans. Th. Riccardi)
>> 
>> Axel Michaels
>> 
>> 
>> Von: INDOLOGY <indology-bounces at list.indology.info <mailto:indology-bounces at list.indology.info>> im Auftrag von "mmdesh at umich.edu <mailto:mmdesh at umich.edu>" <mmdesh at umich.edu <mailto:mmdesh at umich.edu>>
>> Datum: Montag, 6. Juni 2016 um 12:24
>> An: Klaus Karttunen <klaus.karttunen at helsinki.fi <mailto:klaus.karttunen at helsinki.fi>>
>> Cc: "indology at list.indology.info <mailto:indology at list.indology.info>" <indology at list.indology.info <mailto:indology at list.indology.info>>
>> Betreff: Re: [INDOLOGY] suicide as a result of love
>> 
>> In the Nalop?khy?na (in the Sanskrit Reader, Charles Lanman, p. 9-10) from the Mahabharata, Damayant? threatens to kill herself, if rejected by Nala.  She refers to four alternatives to kill herself:  yadi tvam bhajam?n?m m?m praty?khy?syasi m?nada / vi?am agnim jalam rajjum ?sth?sye tava k?ra??t //, "O, Giver of Honor, if you reject me who is devoted to you, then on account of you, I will resort to poison, or fire, or water, or a rope."  
>> 
>> Madhav Deshpande
>> 
>> On Mon, Jun 6, 2016 at 5:46 AM, Klaus Karttunen <klaus.karttunen at helsinki.fi <mailto:klaus.karttunen at helsinki.fi>> wrote:
>> Dear all,
>> in Har?a?s Ratn?val? S?garik? ? sure that her love to the king is unsuccesful ? will hang herself, but luckily the king arrives in time and saves her. There are certainly many other examples.
>> 
>> Best,
>> Klaus
>> 
>> Klaus Karttunen
>> South Asian and Indoeuropean Studies
>> Asian and African Studies, Department of World Cultures
>> PL 59 (Unioninkatu 38 B)
>> 00014 University of Helsinki, FINLAND
>> Tel +358-(0)2941 4482418
>> Fax +358-(0)2941 22094
>> Klaus.Karttunen at helsinki.fi <mailto:Klaus.Karttunen at helsinki.fi>
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> On 06 Jun 2016, at 11:50, Philipp Maas <philipp.a.maas at gmail.com <mailto:philipp.a.maas at gmail.com>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Dear Dermot and all,
>>> 
>>> The story of the ?Weaver as Vi??u? occurs indeed in P?rnabhadra?s recension of the Pata?catntra as well as in the exemplar of this recension, the so-called textus simplicior. P?rnabhadra censored the narrative strongly from the perspective of conservative sm?rta-Hinduism and left out the motive of suicide out of desire for the princess, which, accordingly only occurs in the textus simplicior.
>>> 
>>>  
>>> For a more comprehensive analysis of the two versions of the narrative see my ?On Discourses of Dharma and the Pa?catantra.? Wiener Zeitschrift f?r die Kunde S?dasiens 55 (2013-2014), p. 5-31, of which you find a pre-print draft version here <https://www.academia.edu/13986474/On_Discourses_of_Dharma_and_the_Pa%C3%B1catantra>.
>>> 
>>>  
>>> Best wishes,
>>> 
>>>  
>>> Philipp
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 2016-06-06 10:09 GMT+02:00 <dermot at grevatt.force9.co.uk <mailto:dermot at grevatt.force9.co.uk>>:
>>> In Purnabhadra's version of the Pancatantra (ed. Hertel 1908 pp. 46-55; tr. A.W. Ryder 1956,
>>> pp. 89-104), a weaver falls in love with a princess, swoons, then resolves on suicide by fire.
>>> He is saved by his friend, a chariot-builder or carpenter (rathakAra), who promises to use his
>>> skill to effect a union, and is spectacularly successful. It's a wonderful story, involving sex,
>>> politics, and religion.
>>> 
>>> This is a mock-heroic example: the motif of suicidal despair resulting from love at first sight,
>>> which is expected of exalted characters, is transferred to a man of low degree.
>>> 
>>> Dermot
>>> 
>>> On 6 Jun 2016 at 8:51, Andrew Ollett wrote:
>>> 
>>> I have the feeling that this is a relatively common motif in story literature. The one example
>>> that comes to mind is the Prakrit verse romance Lilavati, in which one of the characters
>>> (Kuvalayavali) has a "gandharva" wedding with a Gandharva (Citragada), and when her
>>> father finds out and curses them, she is so overcome with shame that she tries to hang
>>> herself from a tree. She is stopped at the last moment by her mother Rambha. This is around
>>> v. 658 in A.N. Upadhye's edition.
>>> 
>>> On Mon, Jun 6, 2016 at 8:25 AM, Alex Watson <alex.watson at ashoka.edu.in <mailto:alex.watson at ashoka.edu.in>> wrote:
>>>     Dear List Members
>>> 
>>>     A colleague, Madhavi Menon, who is writing a book entitled 'A History of Desire in
>>>     India', has asked me the following question. All help appreciated; I will forward your
>>>     responses to her.
>>> 
>>>     "Are there any narratives in Sanskrit/Buddhist literature/philosophy/history that talk
>>>     about suicide, or atma-hatya, specifically in relation to love and desire?"
>>> 
>>>     Yours Alex
>>> 
>>>     --
>>>     Alex Watson
>>>     Professor of Indian Philosophy
>>>     Ashoka University
>>>     https://ashokauniversity.academia.edu/AlexWatson <https://ashokauniversity.academia.edu/AlexWatson>
>>> 
>>>     _______________________________________________
>>>     INDOLOGY mailing list
>>>     INDOLOGY at list.indology.info <mailto:INDOLOGY at list.indology.info>
>>>     indology-owner at list.indology.info <mailto:indology-owner at list.indology.info> (messages to the list's managing committee)
>>>     http://listinfo.indology.info <http://listinfo.indology.info/> (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe)
>>> 
>>> 
>>> --
>>> Dermot Killingley
>>> 9, Rectory Drive,
>>> Gosforth,
>>> Newcastle upon Tyne NE3 1XT
>>> Phone (0191) 285 8053 <tel:%280191%29%20285%208053>
>>> 
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info <mailto:INDOLOGY at list.indology.info>
>>> indology-owner at list.indology.info <mailto:indology-owner at list.indology.info> (messages to the list's managing committee)
>>> http://listinfo.indology.info <http://listinfo.indology.info/> (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe)
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> -- 
>>> Dr. Philipp A. Maas
>>> Universit?tsassistent
>>> Institut f?r S?dasien-, Tibet- und Buddhismuskunde
>>> Universit?t Wien
>>> Spitalgasse 2-4, Hof 2, Eingang 2.1
>>> A-1090 Wien
>>> ?sterreich
>>> univie.academia.edu/PhilippMaas <http://univie.academia.edu/PhilippMaas>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info <mailto:INDOLOGY at list.indology.info>
>>> indology-owner at list.indology.info <mailto:indology-owner at list.indology.info> (messages to the list's managing committee)
>>> http://listinfo.indology.info <http://listinfo.indology.info/> (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe)
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info <mailto:INDOLOGY at list.indology.info>
>> indology-owner at list.indology.info <mailto:indology-owner at list.indology.info> (messages to the list's managing committee)
>> http://listinfo.indology.info <http://listinfo.indology.info/> (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe)
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> -- 
>> Madhav M. Deshpande
>> Professor of Sanskrit and Linguistics
>> Department of Asian Languages and Cultures
>> 202 South Thayer Street, Suite 6111
>> The University of Michigan
>> Ann Arbor, MI 48104-1608, USA
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info <mailto:INDOLOGY at list.indology.info>
>> indology-owner at list.indology.info <mailto:indology-owner at list.indology.info> (messages to the list's managing committee)
>> http://listinfo.indology.info <http://listinfo.indology.info/> (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe)
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> -- 
>> Madhav M. Deshpande
>> Professor of Sanskrit and Linguistics
>> Department of Asian Languages and Cultures
>> 202 South Thayer Street, Suite 6111
>> The University of Michigan
>> Ann Arbor, MI 48104-1608, USA
>> _______________________________________________
>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info <mailto:INDOLOGY at list.indology.info>
>> indology-owner at list.indology.info <mailto:indology-owner at list.indology.info> (messages to the list's managing committee)
>> http://listinfo.indology.info <http://listinfo.indology.info/> (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe)
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
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From rpg at berkeley.edu  Mon Jun  6 18:14:39 2016
From: rpg at berkeley.edu (Robert Goldman)
Date: Mon, 06 Jun 16 11:14:39 -0700
Subject: [INDOLOGY] suicide as a result of love
In-Reply-To: <CA+H=kyRV8TES_whz-O0QhmbF005YRqq5Pc3sMSedwRnN18189A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <676412D1-7175-4233-AA8A-D32DE2FCDF8F@berkeley.edu>

Attempted, but unsuccessful suicides because of seemingly unfulfillable desire or lost love are not uncommon in the Sanskrit Drama. One can think offhand of Udayana in the Svapnav?savadatta, Avim?raka in the well? Avim?raka and S?t? in the Uttarar?macarita
Dr. R. P.  Goldman
Catherine and William L. Magistretti Distinguished Professor in South and Southeast Asian Studies
Department of South and Southeast Asian Studies MC # 2540
The University of California at Berkeley
Berkeley, CA 94720-2540
Tel: 510-642-4089
Fax: 510-642-2409



> On Jun 5, 2016, at 11:25 PM, Alex Watson <alex.watson at ashoka.edu.in> wrote:
> 
> Dear List Members
> 
> A colleague, Madhavi Menon, who is writing a book entitled 'A History of Desire in India', has asked me the following question.  All help appreciated; I will forward your responses to her.
> 
> "Are there any narratives in Sanskrit/Buddhist literature/philosophy/history that talk about suicide, or ?tma-haty?, specifically in relation to love and desire?"
> 
> Yours Alex
> 
> -- 
> Alex Watson
> Professor of Indian Philosophy
> Ashoka University
> https://ashokauniversity.academia.edu/AlexWatson <https://ashokauniversity.academia.edu/AlexWatson>_______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe)



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From psdmccartney at gmail.com  Mon Jun  6 23:36:03 2016
From: psdmccartney at gmail.com (patrick mccartney)
Date: Tue, 07 Jun 16 09:36:03 +1000
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Fwd: New Version Episode 1: Imagining Sanskrit Land
In-Reply-To: <CAEzwJrAt1WOVxL8EWNn4KSYnnJFK_Z-fyBS_YKzx7hCg_y9Hpw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAEzwJrDH-G82_MkE0e5k4KgwA8tp1EhBsv65GODVV8Bi-3WBBg@mail.gmail.com>

Dear Friends,

I would like to share with you a new version of the short film *Episode 1:
Imagining Sanskrit Land.*

This is the first episode of several short films I am making about the
'Sanskrit village' Jhiri, which is located in Madhya Pradesh, India. This
ethnographic documentary series is titled 'Imagining Sanskrit Land'. It is
a visual complement to the post-doctoral project I intend to work on.

 Across India there are rumours of rural communities where 'everyone speaks
fluent Sanskrit'. I spent one month in Jhiri during the summer of 2015
documenting the linguistic vitality of vernacular Sanskrit and the
aspirations of this community to transition to only speak Sanskrit and
forego their mother tongue, Malvi. It must be said that the linguistic
reality is very different to what the media presents it as. Less than 10
percent of the village speak any Sanskrit at all.

This film is about the effort it took to actually find the village and
includes some of the original audio/video of the first mention I came
across that inspired this project. There are several villages called
'Jhiri' in this district of MP. We drove around for several hours,
sometimes in circles, while my driver pleaded with me to just turn around
and go home. Finally, around dusk we found it.

The film is embedded in my academia site:
https://www.academia.edu/24107065/Episode_1_-_Imagining_Sanskrit_Land_-_Filmed_and_Produced_by_Patrick_McCartney

or you can view it directly from YouTube: https://youtu.be/jMi7tkPBbJ4


You can find other films and information about my research into spoken
Sanskrit at:

   - *https://anu-au.academia.edu/patrickmccartney
   <https://anu-au.academia.edu/patrickmccartney>*

or follow me @psdmccartney



I hope you enjoy it.




All the best,

Patrick McCartney, PhD
School of Culture, History & Language
College of the Asia-Pacific
The Australian National University
Canberra, Australia, 0200


Skype - psdmccartney
Phone + Whatsapp:  +61 414 954 748
Twitter - @psdmccartney

#yogabodyANU2016 symposium
 http://chl.anu.edu.au/news-events/events/658/yoga-and-body-past-and-present-symposium?#tab
<http://chl.anu.edu.au/news-events/events/658/yoga-and-body-past-and-present-symposium?#tab>


   - *https://anu-au.academia.edu/patrickmccartney
   <https://anu-au.academia.edu/patrickmccartney>*
   -
*https://www.academia.edu/25626086/Shanti_Mandir_Authenticity_Economy_and_Emotion_in_a_Yoga_Ashram
   <https://www.academia.edu/25626086/Shanti_Mandir_Authenticity_Economy_and_Emotion_in_a_Yoga_Ashram>
   *
   - *https://www.linkedin.com/profile/view?id=241756978&trk=nav_responsive_tab_profile
   <https://www.linkedin.com/profile/view?id=241756978&trk=nav_responsive_tab_profile>*

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cy6lVABgjmg

<http://goog_371544488>
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LVqBD_2P4Pg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pJy_Oqnqag8

http://youtu.be/y3XfjbwqC_g

http://trinityroots.bandcamp.com/track/all-we-be

https://youtu.be/7tAp8m9RHPU


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From bgalasek at googlemail.com  Tue Jun  7 01:08:56 2016
From: bgalasek at googlemail.com (Bruno Galasek)
Date: Mon, 06 Jun 16 18:08:56 -0700
Subject: AW: [INDOLOGY] suicide as a result of love
In-Reply-To: <6923CDEA-2C83-42B1-B230-6403DF9B1C76@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <00ef01d1c059$2b064ab0$8112e010$@gmail.com>

A little story that serves to illustrate how suffering arises from those who are dear, is told as an example for murder and/with suicide out of love/desire/longing in an doctrinally unimposing, but in other respects very interesting, sutta of the Majjhimanik?ya, the Piyaj?tikasuttam (MN 87): 

 

I quote from Bhikkhu Bodhi?s translation of the Majjhimanik?ya (N?a?n?amoli, and Bhikkhu Bodhi. 2009. The Middle Length Discourses of the Buddha: A Translation of the Majjhima Nika?ya. Boston: Wisdom Publications in association with the Barre Center for Buddhist Studies, pp. 720f.): 

 

22. ?And it can also be understood from this how sorrow,

lamentation, pain, grief, and despair are born from those who

are dear, arise from those who are dear. Once in this same

S?vatth? there was a certain woman who went to live with her

relatives? family. Her relatives wanted to divorce her from her

husband and give her to another whom she did not want. Then

the woman said to her husband: ?Lord, these relatives of mine

want to divorce me from you and give me to another whom I 

do not want.? Then the man cut the woman in two and [110] disemboweled

himself, thinking: ?We shall be together in the afterlife.?

It can also be understood from this how sorrow, lamentation,

pain, grief, and despair are born from those who are dear,

arise from those who are dear.?

 

(One might perhaps wish to modify the Ven. Bhikkhu Bodhi?s rather sanguinary word choice, not least by taking variant readings into account ? )

 

(P?li, without vv.ll., from Gretil:  <http://gretil.sub.uni-goettingen.de/gretil/2_pali/1_tipit/2_sut/2_majjh/majjn2ou.htm> http://gretil.sub.uni-goettingen.de/gretil/2_pali/1_tipit/2_sut/2_majjh/majjn2ou.htm)

Imin? pi kho eta?, br?hma?a, pariy?yena veditabba?,
yath? piyaj?tik? sokaparidevadukkhadomanassup?y?s? piyappa-
bhavik? ti. Bh?tapubba?, br?hma?a, imass? yeva S?vatthiy?
a??atar? itthi ??tikula? agam?si. Tass? te ??tak? s?mika?7
acchinditv? a??assa d?tuk?m?; s? ca ta? na icchati. Atha
kho S?vatthi8-s?mika? etad avoca: Ime ma?9, ayyaputta,
??tak? ta?10 acchinditv? a??assa {d?tuk?m?}; aha? ca ta?
na icch?m?ti. Atha kho so puriso ta? itthi? dvidh? chetv?
[page 110]
110 II. MAJJHIMAPA??ASA?.
att?na? upp??esi1: Ubho pecca bhaviss?m?ti. Imin? pi kho
ta?, br?hma?a, pariy?yena veditabba?, yath? piyaj?tik?
sokaparidevadukkhadomanassup?y?s? piyappabhavik? ti. 

 

Bruno Galasek-Hul (Dr. des.) 

Instructor

Institute of Buddhist Studies (Shin-IBS), Berkeley

1800 Arch Street 
Berkeley, California 94709
USA
mobile: +1-203-507-0080

Email: bgalasek at protonmail.ch

 

Von: INDOLOGY [mailto:indology-bounces at list.indology.info] Im Auftrag von rajam
Gesendet: Monday, June 6, 2016 10:52 AM
An: Diwakar singh <samparkdev at gmail.com>; Indology List <indology at list.indology.info>
Betreff: Re: [INDOLOGY] suicide as a result of love

 

Somewhat a different scene on the Tamil side, as usual! The narrations are not just about romantic-love but about feelings for loved-ones also.

 

1. In the Tamil version of the Ramayana (that is, Kambaramayana) ? Devi Sita was about to commit suicide since Rama hadn?t yet come to her rescue from Ravana?s captivity. That was when Rama?s messenger Hanuman appeared and assured her that Rama would be there soon.

 

2. In the (Jain?) epic Silappatikaram, as the aftermath of the unlawful killing of the hero Kovalan, many women who were associated with Kovalan and his wife Kannaki commit suicide through several means ? the Jain ascetic Kavunti (???????) by fasting (?sallekhana"), their shepherd-hostess Madhari (?????) by 'plunging into the fire,? and Kovalan?s  mother and Kannaki?s mother virtually enduring misery.  

 

2. In the Buddhist epic Manimekalai, in Manimekelai?s previous birth, one of her sisters (t?rai) committed suicide by falling from the terrace of their palace because their another sister (v?rai) was killed by an untrained elephant when she was drunk.

 

3. In the same epic Manimekalai, we read about one ?tirai (?????) who tried to commit suicide as a ?sati? because she thought her husband died in a commercial ship-wreck. 

 

4. The same epic Manimekalai talks about ?puttira? (??????????) whom I?d say is the very soul of the epic. This man actually "missed the boat (not idiomatically)? when he was on a trip to Java from South India for serving the community there. He missed the ship and was stuck in an island where he found no one to serve. So he committed suicide by fasting. Later on, the nine merchants who travelled with him, realizing that he was missing, came in search of him and found him dead. So, they all committed suicide by fasting. 

 

5. Later on in folklore, we hear about a woman named nallata?k?? (???????????) who suffered poverty and threw her 7-children into a well and committed suicide by falling into the well.

 

++++++++++

 

Interesting facts from my perspective are:

 

1. Women committing suicide by jumping into the fire was instituted by the Vedic culture.

 

2. In none of the narratives do I find any man committing suicide for anyone?s sake in their personal life. Of course, there are reports about men dying in war for the sake of their country. 

 

3. While the Jain system approves suicide, the Buddhist system condemns it. Proof is in Manimekalai. In the epic Manimekalai, ?puttira? (??????????) is condemned for committing suicide and his action being a cause for the suicide of nine other merchants.

 

Eager to learn more.

 

Thanks and regards,

rajam

 

 

 

 

On Jun 6, 2016, at 5:59 AM, Diwakar singh <samparkdev at gmail.com <mailto:samparkdev at gmail.com> > wrote:

 

There are several narrative that talks about suicide in Buddhist contexts, for instance the Avadanasataka  contains a story of a  brahmin named Gangika who wanted to enter into monastic order however he was denied by his Parent to do so. And the necessary permission was not granted by his parent and the story suggests that in order to get the opportunity to become monk he repeatedly tried to commit suicide. 

 

On Mon, Jun 6, 2016 at 5:59 PM, Valerie Roebuck <vjroebuck at btinternet.com <mailto:vjroebuck at btinternet.com> > wrote:

In Buddhist commentarial literature, we have examples like that of Bhadd? Ku??alakes? (Dhammapada commentary on vv 102-3), a well-brought-up girl who falls in love with a convicted bandit on his way to execution, and embarks on a hunger-strike to force her parents to let her marry him. (Spoilers: it doesn?t work out very well.)

 

Valerie J Roebuck

Manchester, UK

 

 

 

On 6 Jun 2016, at 12:59, Madhav Deshpande <mmdesh at umich.edu <mailto:mmdesh at umich.edu> > wrote:

 

Other examples may be Sat? burning herself at the sacrifice of her father Dak?a, where her husband was insulted, and of Amb? burning hurself after being rejected for marriage by Bh??ma in the Mahabharata.

 

Madhav Deshpande

 

On Mon, Jun 6, 2016 at 6:32 AM, Michaels, Axel <michaels at asia-europe.uni-heidelberg.de <mailto:michaels at asia-europe.uni-heidelberg.de> > wrote:

Perhaps this question would also include some cases of suttee. Se for instance Manadeva?s inscription (464 CE) in Cangu Narayan (Nepal):

 

?With affection (and) with a tearful face she addressed (her) son: "Your father went to heaven. O (my) son, as your father has gone today, what is the use of my breath [i.e. life]. Take over, o son, the kingdom! I (will) follow right now the path of my husband. What (use) is (it) for me to live without (my) husband by chains of hope made by the extension of (different) kinds of pleasures when the act of meeting is like an illusion and a dream. I will go!" Saying so, she (however) remained. Then she was addressed by her sorrowful son who had diligently pressed her feet against his head out of devotion: "What (to do) with pleasure, what with the joys of life when there is seperation from you? I will give up (my) life first, later I will go to heaven from here." With tears coming out from her lotus-like face, with a net made out of words she became like a trapped and tied bird, (and) therefore she remained. After she had, together with her noble son, performed her husband's obsequies she (lived) by the rules of good conduct, chastity, fasting (and) with a totally cleaned mind; (moreover) she always gave wealth to the brahmins to increase (her late husband's) merit, she remained, with him in her mind, according to the rule of the sat? vow (so that) she really was like Arundhat?.? (Trans. Th. Riccardi)

 

Axel Michaels

 

 

Von: INDOLOGY <indology-bounces at list.indology.info <mailto:indology-bounces at list.indology.info> > im Auftrag von "mmdesh at umich.edu <mailto:mmdesh at umich.edu> " <mmdesh at umich.edu <mailto:mmdesh at umich.edu> >
Datum: Montag, 6. Juni 2016 um 12:24
An: Klaus Karttunen <klaus.karttunen at helsinki.fi <mailto:klaus.karttunen at helsinki.fi> >
Cc: "indology at list.indology.info <mailto:indology at list.indology.info> " <indology at list.indology.info <mailto:indology at list.indology.info> >
Betreff: Re: [INDOLOGY] suicide as a result of love

 

In the Nalop?khy?na (in the Sanskrit Reader, Charles Lanman, p. 9-10) from the Mahabharata, Damayant? threatens to kill herself, if rejected by Nala.  She refers to four alternatives to kill herself:  yadi tvam bhajam?n?m m?m praty?khy?syasi m?nada / vi?am agnim jalam rajjum ?sth?sye tava k?ra??t //, "O, Giver of Honor, if you reject me who is devoted to you, then on account of you, I will resort to poison, or fire, or water, or a rope."   

 

Madhav Deshpande

 

On Mon, Jun 6, 2016 at 5:46 AM, Klaus Karttunen <klaus.karttunen at helsinki.fi <mailto:klaus.karttunen at helsinki.fi> > wrote:

Dear all, 

in Har?a?s Ratn?val? S?garik? ? sure that her love to the king is unsuccesful ? will hang herself, but luckily the king arrives in time and saves her. There are certainly many other examples.

 

Best,

Klaus

 

Klaus Karttunen

South Asian and Indoeuropean Studies

Asian and African Studies, Department of World Cultures

PL 59 (Unioninkatu 38 B)

00014 University of Helsinki, FINLAND

Tel +358-(0)2941 4482418

Fax +358-(0)2941 22094

Klaus.Karttunen at helsinki.fi <mailto:Klaus.Karttunen at helsinki.fi> 

 

 

 





 

On 06 Jun 2016, at 11:50, Philipp Maas <philipp.a.maas at gmail.com <mailto:philipp.a.maas at gmail.com> > wrote:

 

Dear Dermot and all,

The story of the ?Weaver as Vi??u? occurs indeed in P?rnabhadra?s recension of the Pata?catntra as well as in the exemplar of this recension, the so-called textus simplicior. P?rnabhadra censored the narrative strongly from the perspective of conservative sm?rta-Hinduism and left out the motive of suicide out of desire for the princess, which, accordingly only occurs in the textus simplicior. 

 

For a more comprehensive analysis of the two versions of the narrative see my ?On Discourses of Dharma and the Pa?catantra.? Wiener Zeitschrift f?r die Kunde S?dasiens 55 (2013-2014), p. 5-31, of which you find a pre-print draft version here <https://www.academia.edu/13986474/On_Discourses_of_Dharma_and_the_Pa%C3%B1catantra> .

 

Best wishes,

 

Philipp

 

 

2016-06-06 10:09 GMT+02:00 <dermot at grevatt.force9.co.uk <mailto:dermot at grevatt.force9.co.uk> >:

In Purnabhadra's version of the Pancatantra (ed. Hertel 1908 pp. 46-55; tr. A.W. Ryder 1956,
pp. 89-104), a weaver falls in love with a princess, swoons, then resolves on suicide by fire.
He is saved by his friend, a chariot-builder or carpenter (rathakAra), who promises to use his
skill to effect a union, and is spectacularly successful. It's a wonderful story, involving sex,
politics, and religion.

This is a mock-heroic example: the motif of suicidal despair resulting from love at first sight,
which is expected of exalted characters, is transferred to a man of low degree.

Dermot

On 6 Jun 2016 at 8:51, Andrew Ollett wrote:

I have the feeling that this is a relatively common motif in story literature. The one example
that comes to mind is the Prakrit verse romance Lilavati, in which one of the characters
(Kuvalayavali) has a "gandharva" wedding with a Gandharva (Citragada), and when her
father finds out and curses them, she is so overcome with shame that she tries to hang
herself from a tree. She is stopped at the last moment by her mother Rambha. This is around
v. 658 in A.N. Upadhye's edition.

On Mon, Jun 6, 2016 at 8:25 AM, Alex Watson <alex.watson at ashoka.edu.in <mailto:alex.watson at ashoka.edu.in> > wrote:
    Dear List Members

    A colleague, Madhavi Menon, who is writing a book entitled 'A History of Desire in
    India', has asked me the following question. All help appreciated; I will forward your
    responses to her.

    "Are there any narratives in Sanskrit/Buddhist literature/philosophy/history that talk
    about suicide, or atma-hatya, specifically in relation to love and desire?"

    Yours Alex

    --
    Alex Watson
    Professor of Indian Philosophy
    Ashoka University
    https://ashokauniversity.academia.edu/AlexWatson

    _______________________________________________
    INDOLOGY mailing list
    INDOLOGY at list.indology.info <mailto:INDOLOGY at list.indology.info> 
    indology-owner at list.indology.info <mailto:indology-owner at list.indology.info>  (messages to the list's managing committee)
    http://listinfo.indology.info <http://listinfo.indology.info/>  (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe)


--
Dermot Killingley
9, Rectory Drive,
Gosforth,
Newcastle upon Tyne NE3 1XT
Phone (0191) 285 8053 <tel:%280191%29%20285%208053> 


_______________________________________________
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indology-owner at list.indology.info <mailto:indology-owner at list.indology.info>  (messages to the list's managing committee)
http://listinfo.indology.info <http://listinfo.indology.info/>  (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe)




-- 

Dr. Philipp A. Maas

Universit?tsassistent

Institut f?r S?dasien-, Tibet- und Buddhismuskunde
Universit?t Wien
Spitalgasse 2-4, Hof 2, Eingang 2.1
A-1090 Wien

?sterreich
univie.academia.edu/PhilippMaas <http://univie.academia.edu/PhilippMaas> 

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INDOLOGY mailing list
INDOLOGY at list.indology.info <mailto:INDOLOGY at list.indology.info> 
indology-owner at list.indology.info <mailto:indology-owner at list.indology.info>  (messages to the list's managing committee)
http://listinfo.indology.info <http://listinfo.indology.info/>  (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe)

 


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indology-owner at list.indology.info <mailto:indology-owner at list.indology.info>  (messages to the list's managing committee)
http://listinfo.indology.info <http://listinfo.indology.info/>  (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe)





 

-- 

Madhav M. Deshpande
Professor of Sanskrit and Linguistics
Department of Asian Languages and Cultures
202 South Thayer Street, Suite 6111
The University of Michigan
Ann Arbor, MI 48104-1608, USA


_______________________________________________
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indology-owner at list.indology.info <mailto:indology-owner at list.indology.info>  (messages to the list's managing committee)
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-- 

Madhav M. Deshpande
Professor of Sanskrit and Linguistics
Department of Asian Languages and Cultures
202 South Thayer Street, Suite 6111
The University of Michigan
Ann Arbor, MI 48104-1608, USA

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indology-owner at list.indology.info <mailto:indology-owner at list.indology.info>  (messages to the list's managing committee)
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From a.murugaiyan at wanadoo.fr  Tue Jun  7 05:47:31 2016
From: a.murugaiyan at wanadoo.fr (a.murugaiyan)
Date: Tue, 07 Jun 16 07:47:31 +0200
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Fwd: Thirteenth International Workshop on Tamil Epigraphy _ 5 to 16 September 2016
In-Reply-To: <0d8a13ac-dd24-9059-b4c4-0ec7f2460786@wanadoo.fr>
Message-ID: <46706dae-6ccf-f8d7-3660-aa88830f6bd1@wanadoo.fr>



*THIRTEENTH INTERNATIONAL WORKSHOP ON TAMIL EPIGRAPHY*

/Tamil Epigraphy: Corpus Analysis, Database Construction and Information 
Retrieval /

*Thanjavur, Tamil Nadu, India, 5-16 September 2016*

Jointly organised by: UMR 7528? Mondes iranien et indien, Paris; Tamil 
University, Thanjavur, India and Pondicherry University, Pondicherry, India.

Duringthis workshop, we plan to finalise the method of text inputting in 
Tamil and Grantha scripts. Text inputting is the major issue in our 
objective of making available online a searchable version of the mass of 
Tamil inscriptions.

*For more details, please see the attached flyer and the following link:*

<http://www.iran-inde.cnrs.fr/scientific-events/events-2016/thirteenth-international-workshop-on-tamil-epigraphy.html>http://www.iran-inde.cnrs.fr/scientific-events/events-2016/thirteenth-international-workshop-on-tamil-epigraphy.html

Appasamy Murugaiyan

Coordinator

EPHE-UMR 7528 Mondes iranien et indien

Paris, France



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From heike.oberlin at uni-tuebingen.de  Tue Jun  7 08:17:57 2016
From: heike.oberlin at uni-tuebingen.de (PD Dr. Heike Oberlin)
Date: Tue, 07 Jun 16 10:17:57 +0200
Subject: =?utf-8?Q?[INDOLOGY]_Malayalam_@_T=C3=BCbingen_in_July_and_October_2016:_Grammar,_Readings_&_Linguistic_Introduction?=
Message-ID: <9AC30D51-41A7-4C76-988F-638DCA237B81@uni-tuebingen.de>

Dear students and friends of the Malayalam language,

please find attached the next special intensive classes conducted as part of the ?Gundert Chair for Malayalam? scheme at T?bingen University:


Prof. M. Sreenathan
(Gundert Chair guest professor from the Malayalam University at Tirur / Kerala)

Easy Readings of Modern Malayalam Literature
Friday, 15.7. - Saturday, 16.7.2016
daily classes from 10:00-12:30 and 15:00-17:30 h

Malayalam - A Linguistic Introduction
Friday, 22.7. & Saturday, 23.7 and Monday, 25.7. - Wednesday, 27.7.2016
daily classes from 10:00-12:30 and 15:00-17:30 h
Day 1: Common elements of Dravidian languages
Day 2: Specific features of the Malayalam language
Day 3: Malayalam under a socio-linguistic point of view
Day 4: Emic grammar tradition Day 5: Analysis of the historical development of Malayalam
Day 5: Analysis of the historical development of Malayalam


Dr. Ophira Gamliel
(Ruhr University Bochum)

Course for beginners (Grammar): 5. ? 11.10.2016
Classical Malayalam literature (Reading): 12. & 13.10.2016
		

For further information and registration please see the flyers attached.


Best regards from T?bingen,
Heike Oberlin


-------------------
PD Dr. phil. habil. Heike Oberlin
General Manager & Scientific Coordinator (AOI)
Associate Professor (Indology)
 
Eberhard-Karls-Universit?t Tuebingen
Institute of Asian and Oriental Studies (AOI)
Dept. of Indology and Comparative Religion
Keplerstr. 2 (room 139)  ? 72074 Tuebingen ? Germany

Phone +49 7071 29-74005 ? Mobile +49 176 20030066
heike.oberlin at uni-tuebingen.de
 
http://www.uni-tuebingen.de/aoi/indologie/mitarbeiter/heike-oberlin-moser.html













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From slindqui at mail.smu.edu  Tue Jun  7 19:54:13 2016
From: slindqui at mail.smu.edu (Lindquist, Steven)
Date: Tue, 07 Jun 16 19:54:13 +0000
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Conf. Announcement, Oct. 1, SMU (Dallas, TX): "The Legacy of Buddhism in South Asia"
Message-ID: <D37C908E.20A5A%slindqui@smu.edu>

Please pardon x-posting.

Asian Studies at SMU and the South Asia Research and Information Institute, Dallas, are pleased to announce our Annual South Asia Conference for 2016.  The event is free and open to the public. For information on Dallas, accommodations, etc., please feel free to contact us off-list.  Registration information will be posted later this summer.


The Legacy of Buddhism in South Asia: Disruption, Propagation, and Accommodation
Saturday, Oct. 1st, 9am-5pm
McCord Auditorium, SMU Campus

Presentations include:

"Between Rejection and Integration: Brahmanical Ideas and Practices in Early Buddhist Texts?
Oliver Freiberger, The University of Texas at Austin

"Does Propagation Digress into Degeneration? Insights into the Legacy of Buddhism in Andhra?
Sree Padma Holt, Bowdoin College

"Buddhism among Tamils?
Peter Schalk, Uppsala University (emeritus)

"The Rise of the Oppressed Tamilan: Iyotheethassar, Tamil Buddhism, and the Movement towards a Casteless South Asia?
Gajendran Ayyathurai, University of G?ttingen

"A Civil Religion for Modern India? B.R. Ambedkar, Buddhism and Untouchability?
Johannes Beltz, Museum Rietberg

More information on organizers at:
www.smu.edu/asianstudies
www.sarii.org


My best,

Steven

STEVEN LINDQUIST, PH.D.
ASSOCIATE PROFESSOR, RELIGIOUS STUDIES
DIRECTOR, ASIAN STUDIES
_____________
Southern Methodist University
PO Box 750202 | Dallas | TX | 75275
http://faculty.smu.edu/slindqui



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From adheesh1 at gmail.com  Tue Jun  7 21:37:45 2016
From: adheesh1 at gmail.com (Adheesh Sathaye)
Date: Tue, 07 Jun 16 14:37:45 -0700
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Preliminary Notice: 17th World Sanskrit Conference,	Vancouver, Canada, July 9-13, 2018
Message-ID: <598FD4F2-7B75-4F25-BEC1-BCA5D42239D0@gmail.com>

Dear Colleagues,

It is a great pleasure for us to send you a preliminary notice for the next World Sanskrit Conference (WSC), which will be hosted by the Department of Asian Studies at the University of British Columbia in Vancouver, Canada, from July 9-13, 2018. The WSC is held every three years under the auspices of the International Association of Sanskrit Studies (http://www.sanskritassociation.org/main.php). 

The primary website for the WSC 2018 is https://wsc.ubcsanskrit.ca. Please visit this site for up-to-date details about the conference.

We will release the first official Conference Circular in September 2016, which will include information about paper submission, registration fees, accommodation, etc. In the meantime, we urge all interested in attending the WSC 2018 to join our email list for conference announcements. This can be done by visiting our website or by visiting the following link: http://eepurl.com/b3_MIL. Please feel free to forward this announcement to all interested colleagues and students. 

Any queries you might have should be directed to the Conference Secretariat at wsc2018 at ubcsanskrit.ca.

We look forward to seeing you all in Vancouver in July 2018!

With all best wishes,
Adheesh Sathaye,
The 17th WSC Secretariat/Organizing Committee

?
Dr. Adheesh Sathaye
Dept. of Asian Studies
University of British Columbia
408-1871 West Mall
Vancouver BC CANADA V6T1Z2
adheesh at mail.ubc.ca
+1.604.822.5188

???




From dnreigle at gmail.com  Tue Jun  7 22:47:38 2016
From: dnreigle at gmail.com (David and Nancy Reigle)
Date: Tue, 07 Jun 16 16:47:38 -0600
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Caste system and Buddhism
In-Reply-To: <CAPAZekacfXLLb9OO_+vzJq30dv0tb1BWJ+12i6NPARk8sAZ7QQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAPAZekbn0oLmbhPaDSO9qFDBU-d6YHq7G+poep-7EOgK4SbcOQ@mail.gmail.com>

Alakendu Das was able to find the specific reference for the statement that
I had asked about, and has kindly provided me with it. It is not the
Bodhisattva-bh?mi directly, for which we already have the references thanks
to Matthew and Dan, but rather is the 1932 book by Har Dayal, *The
Bodhisattva Doctrine in Buddhist Sanskrit Literature*, pp. 207-208. In
Chapter 5, "The P?ramit?s," in the section on ??la-p?ramit?, Har Dayal
discusses the ten constituents of ??la and then writes about the motives
and sanctions for such right action, concluding (p. 205): "Pure hedonism
thus seems to be the ruling theory of Buddhist ethics."

A few pages later we come to the doctrine in question (p. 207): "The
Mah?y?nists
have thus gone through the entire gamut of the motives that govern human
conduct. But they have rather stultified themselves by teaching the strange
doctrine that a bodhisattva may violate any or all of the precepts of ??la,
if he is moved by compassion for others. This view has led to much subtle
casuistry. The Bo. Bh?. [Bodhisattva-bh?mi] and other treatises explain
that the ethical rules are not absolute. They may be infringed, if a
bodhisattva can thereby render service to an unfortunate creature. . . .
The medieval monks of Europe also passed through a period of widespread
corruption; but they did not formulate a regular philosophy of degeneracy.
The later Mah?y?nists sought to justify the sensual escapades of the monks
(alias bodhisattvas) by referring to the assumed motive of karu??. Tantrism
cast its shadow before." (p. 208): "The author of the Bodhisattva-bh?mi
indicates the circumstances, in which a bodhisattva may infringe the seven
chief precepts. He may kill a person, who intends to murder a monk or his
own parents. . . . In this way, the Mah?y?nists teach that the end
justifies the means and that a bodhisattva may sometimes adopt St. Paul's
device of 'becoming all things to all men'."

I had never read this book by Har Dayal, and I can only say that I
understand the Bodhisattva-bh?mi differently than he does. Nor do I think
that Har Dayal's understanding is supported by the good examples from
history provided by Dan and Matthew, of the killing of the "evil king"
Glang-dar-ma, or more recently the justification by the Tibetan president
of the Chinese Buddhist Association of some of the excesses of Maoist
policy. Of course, we today have a major advantage over Har Dayal in that
we have direct access to the Tibetan tradition of exegesis, so that we can
see how this book was there understood, and to Tibetan culture and history,
so that we can see how these ethics played out in real life.

Best regards,

David Reigle
Colorado, U.S.A.


On Sun, Jun 5, 2016 at 7:47 AM, David and Nancy Reigle <dnreigle at gmail.com>
wrote:

> Many thanks to Matthew and Dan for providing references to where the
> Bodhisattva-bh?mi describes situations in which a bodhisattva may perform
> an act such as killing, which is otherwise prohibited by the Buddhist
> precepts. In the new English translation by Artemus Engle these can be
> found on pp. 276-282.
>
> I had heard the story from the Buddhist J?takas of a ship captain who
> killed a robber on board his ship. The captain was actually a bodhisattva,
> who with his infallible prevision knew that the robber would kill all 500
> of the merchants on board the ship. So to prevent this, and to prevent the
> awful karma that the robber would generate by doing this, the bodhisattva
> captain out of compassion took upon himself the negative karma of killing
> and killed the robber.
>
> To me, such examples do not at all show that Asanga in his Bodhisattva-bh
> ?mi "categorically stated that a devout Buddhist may deviate from any of
> the 5 Panchasheelas if he finds anybody who is violating the ethical code
> viz. showing scant respect to parents or elder brother, or to a fellow
> Bhikkhu."
>
> Best regards,
>
> David Reigle
> Colorado, U.S.A.
>
> ------------------------------
>


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From wujastyk at gmail.com  Wed Jun  8 17:27:17 2016
From: wujastyk at gmail.com (Dominik Wujastyk)
Date: Wed, 08 Jun 16 11:27:17 -0600
Subject: [INDOLOGY] A modern Jain manuscript atelier
Message-ID: <CAKdt-Cd031G2RsDbKmPKPoRMBbbjaxjtF2FJuHNqjdznnyTJ6g@mail.gmail.com>

> Mumbai: ?With thousands of manuscripts left to be rewritten, it is a race
> against time?
> ?Shrutganga?, the centre of rewriting Jain manuscripts, nestles on the
> third floor of Shrut Ganga Mandir, situated amidst the hustle and bustle of
> the commercial hub of Kalbadevi.
>


> Time itself seems to slow down as a dozen men, seated in an organised
> sequence on the floor, work themselves into oblivion. These are no ordinary
> men, and their work, perhaps, is worth a million dollars, for these skilled
> artists, in this age of ?one-touch? and ?single clicks?, are rewriting
> ancient manuscripts using the methodology of a long-established religious
> faith.

...

   - Read more:
   http://indianexpress.com/article/cities/mumbai/jain-mumbai-melting-pot-with-thousands-of-manuscripts-left-to-be-rewritten-it-is-a-race-against-time-2814374/



--
Professor Dominik Wujastyk* <http://ualberta.Academia.edu/DominikWujastyk>
Singhmar Chair in Classical Indian Society and Polity
Department of History and Classics <http://historyandclassics.ualberta.ca/>
University of Alberta, Canada


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From tlighthiser at gmail.com  Wed Jun  8 20:43:12 2016
From: tlighthiser at gmail.com (Timothy P. Lighthiser)
Date: Wed, 08 Jun 16 14:43:12 -0600
Subject: [INDOLOGY] PDF of Sen's A Comparative Grammar of Middle Indo-Aryan
Message-ID: <CABY8hpJ3tr+pANxb+Q-Mjp0BCh5+=SGALpuodbnfmtqOSGM9OA@mail.gmail.com>

Hello!

Does anyone happen to have a copy of this at hand that they'd be ready and
willing to share?

(I've searched by title in the usual spots,e..g., Archive, Digital Library
of India.)

Thanks in advance!

t


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From slindqui at mail.smu.edu  Wed Jun  8 21:55:53 2016
From: slindqui at mail.smu.edu (Lindquist, Steven)
Date: Wed, 08 Jun 16 21:55:53 +0000
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Honorary Degree, Patrick Olivelle
Message-ID: <D37DFE92.20AEF%slindqui@smu.edu>

Dear all,

It's my pleasure to draw your attention to our own Patrick Olivelle receiving an honorary degree from the University of Chicago this weekend:

https://news.uchicago.edu/article/2016/06/03/university-bestow-three-honorary-degrees-527th-convocation

Congratulations, Patrick!

Steven


STEVEN LINDQUIST, PH.D.
ASSOCIATE PROFESSOR, RELIGIOUS STUDIES
DIRECTOR, ASIAN STUDIES
____________________

Dedman College of Humanities and Sciences, SMU
PO Box 750202 | Dallas | TX | 75275
Email: slindqui at smu.edu<mailto:slindqui at smu.edu>
Web: http://faculty.smu.edu/slindqui



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From wujastyk at gmail.com  Wed Jun  8 22:20:21 2016
From: wujastyk at gmail.com (Dominik Wujastyk)
Date: Wed, 08 Jun 16 16:20:21 -0600
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Fwd: Buddhist Photographic Images
In-Reply-To: <VI1PR0301MB2272F08BBB87B57C23B0A9D1B4580@VI1PR0301MB2272.eurprd03.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <CAKdt-CeDO+=WoEXQoPj96XxjavvA5aeCH_SKr2RN=_NYLCcptw@mail.gmail.com>

Replies directly to the author, please.

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Gareth Wilson <ga.wilson at vam.ac.uk>
Date: 2 June 2016 at 08:19
Subject: Buddhist Photographic Images
To: "indology-owner at list.indology.info" <indology-owner at list.indology.info>


Dear Sirs,



In connection with an exhibition focusing on Buddhism and the life of
Buddha, I am looking for *modern *photographic images of:



1.       Lumbini (Mayadevi Temple & Ashokan Pillar)

2.       Bodhgaya (Bodhgaya Temple and Bodhi Tree)

3.       Sarnath (Dhamekh Stupa)

4.       Kushinagar (Parinirvana Temple & Stupa, and Ramabhar Stupa)

5.       Sanchi (Great Stupa & four ornamental Toranas)



Any help you are able to give in sourcing the above would be gratefully
appreciated.



Yours faithfully,





Gareth Wilson

(Volunteer) Asian Department

Victoria & Albert Museum


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From Greg.Bailey at latrobe.edu.au  Wed Jun  8 22:45:17 2016
From: Greg.Bailey at latrobe.edu.au (Greg Bailey)
Date: Wed, 08 Jun 16 22:45:17 +0000
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Honorary Degree, Patrick Olivelle
Message-ID: <D37EDCBA.25B56%greg.bailey@latrobe.edu.au>

Yes, congratulations to Patrick. Well deserved.

Cheers,

Greg Bailey

From: INDOLOGY <indology-bounces at list.indology.info<mailto:indology-bounces at list.indology.info>> on behalf of "Lindquist, Steven" <slindqui at mail.smu.edu<mailto:slindqui at mail.smu.edu>>
Date: Thursday, 9 June 2016 7:55 AM
To: Indology <indology at list.indology.info<mailto:indology at list.indology.info>>
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Honorary Degree, Patrick Olivelle

Dear all,

It's my pleasure to draw your attention to our own Patrick Olivelle receiving an honorary degree from the University of Chicago this weekend:

https://news.uchicago.edu/article/2016/06/03/university-bestow-three-honorary-degrees-527th-convocation

Congratulations, Patrick!

Steven


STEVEN LINDQUIST, PH.D.
ASSOCIATE PROFESSOR, RELIGIOUS STUDIES
DIRECTOR, ASIAN STUDIES
____________________

Dedman College of Humanities and Sciences, SMU
PO Box 750202 | Dallas | TX | 75275
Email: slindqui at smu.edu<mailto:slindqui at smu.edu>
Web: http://faculty.smu.edu/slindqui



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From mmdesh at umich.edu  Thu Jun  9 00:56:14 2016
From: mmdesh at umich.edu (Madhav Deshpande)
Date: Thu, 09 Jun 16 06:26:14 +0530
Subject: [INDOLOGY] PDF of Sen's A Comparative Grammar of Middle	Indo-Aryan
In-Reply-To: <CABY8hpJ3tr+pANxb+Q-Mjp0BCh5+=SGALpuodbnfmtqOSGM9OA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAB3-dzdWe9BW8U6+ZCKjXtxYX7rGWLbbC59wwf9zLFDYt1YX0g@mail.gmail.com>

Hello Tim,

     Here is the download link to this book from the DLI:

http://dli.serc.iisc.ernet.in/handle/2015/127251

     Madhav Deshpande

On Thu, Jun 9, 2016 at 2:13 AM, Timothy P. Lighthiser <tlighthiser at gmail.com
> wrote:

> Hello!
>
> Does anyone happen to have a copy of this at hand that they'd be ready and
> willing to share?
>
> (I've searched by title in the usual spots,e..g., Archive, Digital Library
> of India.)
>
> Thanks in advance!
>
> t
>
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
> committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
> unsubscribe)
>



-- 
Madhav M. Deshpande
Professor of Sanskrit and Linguistics
Department of Asian Languages and Cultures
202 South Thayer Street, Suite 6111
The University of Michigan
Ann Arbor, MI 48104-1608, USA


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From mmdesh at umich.edu  Thu Jun  9 01:18:24 2016
From: mmdesh at umich.edu (Madhav Deshpande)
Date: Thu, 09 Jun 16 06:48:24 +0530
Subject: [INDOLOGY] PDF of Sen's A Comparative Grammar of Middle	Indo-Aryan
In-Reply-To: <CAB3-dzdWe9BW8U6+ZCKjXtxYX7rGWLbbC59wwf9zLFDYt1YX0g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAB3-dzcX6Y=y_scXWHSxo8nWYiksRhgiKav_Yv=umY=Uq+_XHg@mail.gmail.com>

This DLI copy of Sukumar Sen's book has several missing pages, as I just
noticed.  If anyone has a better pdf copy to share, I would appreciate
receiving it.  Best,

Madhav Deshpande

On Thu, Jun 9, 2016 at 6:26 AM, Madhav Deshpande <mmdesh at umich.edu> wrote:

> Hello Tim,
>
>      Here is the download link to this book from the DLI:
>
> http://dli.serc.iisc.ernet.in/handle/2015/127251
>
>      Madhav Deshpande
>
> On Thu, Jun 9, 2016 at 2:13 AM, Timothy P. Lighthiser <
> tlighthiser at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Hello!
>>
>> Does anyone happen to have a copy of this at hand that they'd be ready
>> and willing to share?
>>
>> (I've searched by title in the usual spots,e..g., Archive, Digital
>> Library of India.)
>>
>> Thanks in advance!
>>
>> t
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
>> committee)
>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
>> unsubscribe)
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Madhav M. Deshpande
> Professor of Sanskrit and Linguistics
> Department of Asian Languages and Cultures
> 202 South Thayer Street, Suite 6111
> The University of Michigan
> Ann Arbor, MI 48104-1608, USA
>



-- 
Madhav M. Deshpande
Professor of Sanskrit and Linguistics
Department of Asian Languages and Cultures
202 South Thayer Street, Suite 6111
The University of Michigan
Ann Arbor, MI 48104-1608, USA


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From shrinsaha at gmail.com  Thu Jun  9 02:20:33 2016
From: shrinsaha at gmail.com (Niranjan Saha)
Date: Thu, 09 Jun 16 07:50:33 +0530
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Honorary Degree, Patrick Olivelle
In-Reply-To: <D37DFE92.20AEF%slindqui@smu.edu>
Message-ID: <CAHuz+CrN=weOZ5cPdFn5V0hnCdsqfdeWKS87UrqZGNe0GKSXfg@mail.gmail.com>

Congratulations, Professor Olivelle!

Regards,
N.Saha

On Thu, Jun 9, 2016 at 3:25 AM, Lindquist, Steven <slindqui at mail.smu.edu>
wrote:

> Dear all,
>
> It's my pleasure to draw your attention to our own Patrick Olivelle
> receiving an honorary degree from the University of Chicago this weekend:
>
>
> https://news.uchicago.edu/article/2016/06/03/university-bestow-three-honorary-degrees-527th-convocation
>
> Congratulations, Patrick!
>
> Steven
>
>
> *S**TEVEN* *L**INDQUIST**,** P**H**.D.*
>
> *ASSOCIATE PROFESSOR, RELIGIOUS STUDIES*
>
> *D**IRECTOR, **A**SIAN** S**TUDIES*
>
> *____________________*
>
>
> *Dedman College of Humanities and Sciences, SMU*
>
> *PO Box 750202 | Dallas | TX | 75275*
>
> *Email: slindqui at smu.edu <slindqui at smu.edu>*
>
> *Web: http://faculty.smu.edu/slindqui <http://faculty.smu.edu/slindqui>*
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
> committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
> unsubscribe)
>


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From laurie.patton at duke.edu  Thu Jun  9 02:43:40 2016
From: laurie.patton at duke.edu (Prof Laurie Patton, Ph.D.)
Date: Thu, 09 Jun 16 02:43:40 +0000
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Honorary Degree, Patrick Olivelle
In-Reply-To: <D37DFE92.20AEF%slindqui@smu.edu>
Message-ID: <31D79CBD-5AA2-469B-B619-6C7917BFF66F@duke.edu>

We've been celebrating such a well deserved honor!
Laurie Patton

On Jun 8, 2016, at 17:56, Lindquist, Steven <slindqui at mail.smu.edu<mailto:slindqui at mail.smu.edu>> wrote:

Dear all,

It's my pleasure to draw your attention to our own Patrick Olivelle receiving an honorary degree from the University of Chicago this weekend:

https://news.uchicago.edu/article/2016/06/03/university-bestow-three-honorary-degrees-527th-convocation<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__news.uchicago.edu_article_2016_06_03_university-2Dbestow-2Dthree-2Dhonorary-2Ddegrees-2D527th-2Dconvocation&d=CwMFAg&c=imBPVzF25OnBgGmVOlcsiEgHoG1i6YHLR0Sj_gZ4adc&r=SVk28GQbfG0uVF0oQzeL-4_dGwXe7uxtkQlyJBx1K6Q&m=a4rKV-S8Xh1xmneHtVEjQ4mgdjOM05mSmh5BjV79yXc&s=RHtfIdpaUbphcILWjdHhrUyrb1YsG9JmoaMX7yAyF3A&e=>

Congratulations, Patrick!

Steven


STEVEN LINDQUIST, PH.D.
ASSOCIATE PROFESSOR, RELIGIOUS STUDIES
DIRECTOR, ASIAN STUDIES
____________________

Dedman College of Humanities and Sciences, SMU
PO Box 750202 | Dallas | TX | 75275
Email: slindqui at smu.edu<mailto:slindqui at smu.edu>
Web: http://faculty.smu.edu/slindqui<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__faculty.smu.edu_slindqui&d=CwMFAg&c=imBPVzF25OnBgGmVOlcsiEgHoG1i6YHLR0Sj_gZ4adc&r=SVk28GQbfG0uVF0oQzeL-4_dGwXe7uxtkQlyJBx1K6Q&m=a4rKV-S8Xh1xmneHtVEjQ4mgdjOM05mSmh5BjV79yXc&s=q18oB1Fx5mETivWr098mnGSlLXZ2ybUqUoVlK6bFwd4&e=>

_______________________________________________
INDOLOGY mailing list
INDOLOGY at list.indology.info<mailto:INDOLOGY at list.indology.info>
indology-owner at list.indology.info<mailto:indology-owner at list.indology.info> (messages to the list's managing committee)
https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__listinfo.indology.info&d=CwICAg&c=imBPVzF25OnBgGmVOlcsiEgHoG1i6YHLR0Sj_gZ4adc&r=SVk28GQbfG0uVF0oQzeL-4_dGwXe7uxtkQlyJBx1K6Q&m=a4rKV-S8Xh1xmneHtVEjQ4mgdjOM05mSmh5BjV79yXc&s=gNlQV1z7XElk662Lk9RttK7iyE90LlaA5REKTgWEcfE&e=  (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe)


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From mmdesh at umich.edu  Thu Jun  9 03:15:01 2016
From: mmdesh at umich.edu (Madhav Deshpande)
Date: Thu, 09 Jun 16 08:45:01 +0530
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Honorary Degree, Patrick Olivelle
In-Reply-To: <31D79CBD-5AA2-469B-B619-6C7917BFF66F@duke.edu>
Message-ID: <CAB3-dzef6vyRp9i6BpR-CsiE-SC-VU-sZh-OG3LkGRjT2EKcVA@mail.gmail.com>

Congratulations, dear Patrick!  Well deserved recognition.  With best
wishes,

Madhav Deshpande

On Thu, Jun 9, 2016 at 8:13 AM, Prof Laurie Patton, Ph.D. <
laurie.patton at duke.edu> wrote:

> We've been celebrating such a well deserved honor!
> Laurie Patton
>
> On Jun 8, 2016, at 17:56, Lindquist, Steven <slindqui at mail.smu.edu> wrote:
>
> Dear all,
>
> It's my pleasure to draw your attention to our own Patrick Olivelle
> receiving an honorary degree from the University of Chicago this weekend:
>
>
> https://news.uchicago.edu/article/2016/06/03/university-bestow-three-honorary-degrees-527th-convocation
> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__news.uchicago.edu_article_2016_06_03_university-2Dbestow-2Dthree-2Dhonorary-2Ddegrees-2D527th-2Dconvocation&d=CwMFAg&c=imBPVzF25OnBgGmVOlcsiEgHoG1i6YHLR0Sj_gZ4adc&r=SVk28GQbfG0uVF0oQzeL-4_dGwXe7uxtkQlyJBx1K6Q&m=a4rKV-S8Xh1xmneHtVEjQ4mgdjOM05mSmh5BjV79yXc&s=RHtfIdpaUbphcILWjdHhrUyrb1YsG9JmoaMX7yAyF3A&e=>
>
> Congratulations, Patrick!
>
> Steven
>
>
> *S**TEVEN* *L**INDQUIST**,** P**H**.D.*
>
> *ASSOCIATE PROFESSOR, RELIGIOUS STUDIES*
>
> *D**IRECTOR, **A**SIAN** S**TUDIES*
>
> *____________________*
>
>
> *Dedman College of Humanities and Sciences, SMU*
>
> *PO Box 750202 | Dallas | TX | 75275*
>
> *Email: slindqui at smu.edu <slindqui at smu.edu>*
>
> *Web: http://faculty.smu.edu/slindqui
> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__faculty.smu.edu_slindqui&d=CwMFAg&c=imBPVzF25OnBgGmVOlcsiEgHoG1i6YHLR0Sj_gZ4adc&r=SVk28GQbfG0uVF0oQzeL-4_dGwXe7uxtkQlyJBx1K6Q&m=a4rKV-S8Xh1xmneHtVEjQ4mgdjOM05mSmh5BjV79yXc&s=q18oB1Fx5mETivWr098mnGSlLXZ2ybUqUoVlK6bFwd4&e=>*
>
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
> committee)
>
> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__listinfo.indology.info&d=CwICAg&c=imBPVzF25OnBgGmVOlcsiEgHoG1i6YHLR0Sj_gZ4adc&r=SVk28GQbfG0uVF0oQzeL-4_dGwXe7uxtkQlyJBx1K6Q&m=a4rKV-S8Xh1xmneHtVEjQ4mgdjOM05mSmh5BjV79yXc&s=gNlQV1z7XElk662Lk9RttK7iyE90LlaA5REKTgWEcfE&e=
>  (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe)
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
> committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
> unsubscribe)
>



-- 
Madhav M. Deshpande
Professor of Sanskrit and Linguistics
Department of Asian Languages and Cultures
202 South Thayer Street, Suite 6111
The University of Michigan
Ann Arbor, MI 48104-1608, USA


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From michaels at asia-europe.uni-heidelberg.de  Thu Jun  9 07:17:54 2016
From: michaels at asia-europe.uni-heidelberg.de (Michaels, Axel)
Date: Thu, 09 Jun 16 07:17:54 +0000
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Honorary Degree, Patrick Olivelle
Message-ID: <81A81EA2-BAE8-415E-AA5D-C862191E599C@asia-europe.uni-heidelberg.de>

Great, congratulations, Patrick. You really deserve it.

Best, Axel

Von: INDOLOGY <indology-bounces at list.indology.info> im Auftrag von "Lindquist, Steven" <slindqui at mail.smu.edu>
Datum: Wednesday 8 June 2016 at 23:55
An: "indology at list.indology.info" <indology at list.indology.info>
Betreff: [INDOLOGY] Honorary Degree, Patrick Olivelle

Dear all,

It's my pleasure to draw your attention to our own Patrick Olivelle receiving an honorary degree from the University of Chicago this weekend:

https://news.uchicago.edu/article/2016/06/03/university-bestow-three-honorary-degrees-527th-convocation

Congratulations, Patrick!

Steven


STEVEN LINDQUIST, PH.D.
ASSOCIATE PROFESSOR, RELIGIOUS STUDIES
DIRECTOR, ASIAN STUDIES
____________________

Dedman College of Humanities and Sciences, SMU
PO Box 750202 | Dallas | TX | 75275
Email: slindqui at smu.edu<mailto:slindqui at smu.edu>
Web: http://faculty.smu.edu/slindqui



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From mkapstei at uchicago.edu  Thu Jun  9 07:35:54 2016
From: mkapstei at uchicago.edu (Matthew Kapstein)
Date: Thu, 09 Jun 16 07:35:54 +0000
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Honorary Degree, Patrick Olivelle
In-Reply-To: <81A81EA2-BAE8-415E-AA5D-C862191E599C@asia-europe.uni-heidelberg.de>
Message-ID: <82C3E42590D939418C74DD76B97DDED047B9A65C@xm-mbx-06-prod>


In the midst of various crises at the University of Chicago,
it's heartening to see that they got this one right!
Way to go, Patrick!

Matthew

Matthew Kapstein
Directeur d'?tudes,
Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes

Numata Visiting Professor of Buddhist Studies,
The University of Chicago
________________________________



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From klaus.karttunen at helsinki.fi  Thu Jun  9 08:51:58 2016
From: klaus.karttunen at helsinki.fi (Klaus Karttunen)
Date: Thu, 09 Jun 16 11:51:58 +0300
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Honorary Degree, Patrick Olivelle
In-Reply-To: <82C3E42590D939418C74DD76B97DDED047B9A65C@xm-mbx-06-prod>
Message-ID: <6EC4D34F-02C2-4042-9183-B8B49803D1B3@helsinki.fi>

Well deserved, indeed. My congratulations, too.
Klaus

Klaus Karttunen
South Asian and Indoeuropean Studies
Asian and African Studies, Department of World Cultures
PL 59 (Unioninkatu 38 B)
00014 University of Helsinki, FINLAND
Tel +358-(0)2941 4482418
Fax +358-(0)2941 22094
Klaus.Karttunen at helsinki.fi






> On 09 Jun 2016, at 10:35, Matthew Kapstein <mkapstei at uchicago.edu> wrote:
> 
> 
> In the midst of various crises at the University of Chicago,
> it's heartening to see that they got this one right! 
> Way to go, Patrick!
> 
> Matthew
> 
> Matthew Kapstein
> Directeur d'?tudes, 
> Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes
> 
> Numata Visiting Professor of Buddhist Studies,
> The University of Chicago
> 
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info <mailto:INDOLOGY at list.indology.info>
> indology-owner at list.indology.info <mailto:indology-owner at list.indology.info> (messages to the list's managing committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info <http://listinfo.indology.info/> (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe)



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From asko.parpola at helsinki.fi  Thu Jun  9 11:56:12 2016
From: asko.parpola at helsinki.fi (asko.parpola at helsinki.fi)
Date: Thu, 09 Jun 16 14:56:12 +0300
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Honorary Degree, Patrick Olivelle
In-Reply-To: <6EC4D34F-02C2-4042-9183-B8B49803D1B3@helsinki.fi>
Message-ID: <20160609145612.Horde.IwSgzP45gdIQvqvnmVjTfw3@webmail.helsinki.fi>



I entirely agree. Congrats, Patrick! Asko


Quoting Klaus Karttunen <klaus.karttunen at helsinki.fi>:

> Well deserved, indeed. My congratulations, too.
> Klaus
>
> Klaus Karttunen
> South Asian and Indoeuropean Studies
> Asian and African Studies, Department of World Cultures
> PL 59 (Unioninkatu 38 B)
> 00014 University of Helsinki, FINLAND
> Tel +358-(0)2941 4482418
> Fax +358-(0)2941 22094
> Klaus.Karttunen at helsinki.fi
>
>
>
>
>
>
>> On 09 Jun 2016, at 10:35, Matthew Kapstein <mkapstei at uchicago.edu> wrote:
>>
>>
>> In the midst of various crises at the University of Chicago,
>> it's heartening to see that they got this one right!
>> Way to go, Patrick!
>>
>> Matthew
>>
>> Matthew Kapstein
>> Directeur d'?tudes,
>> Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes
>>
>> Numata Visiting Professor of Buddhist Studies,
>> The University of Chicago
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info <mailto:INDOLOGY at list.indology.info>
>> indology-owner at list.indology.info  
>> <mailto:indology-owner at list.indology.info> (messages to the list's  
>> managing committee)
>> http://listinfo.indology.info <http://listinfo.indology.info/>  
>> (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe)








From karp at uw.edu.pl  Thu Jun  9 14:01:17 2016
From: karp at uw.edu.pl (Artur Karp)
Date: Thu, 09 Jun 16 16:01:17 +0200
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Patrick Olivelle
Message-ID: <CALNcvFuvzw09Z6R69NufGE-dgLmTMH6bRTgnKNYQbCK_yj3EYg@mail.gmail.com>

Never met, always present ---

Congratulations,

Artur Karp (ret.)
University of Warsaw
Poland


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From hhhock at illinois.edu  Thu Jun  9 19:44:36 2016
From: hhhock at illinois.edu (Hock, Hans Henrich)
Date: Thu, 09 Jun 16 19:44:36 +0000
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Honorary Degree, Patrick Olivelle
In-Reply-To: <D37DFE92.20AEF%slindqui@smu.edu>
Message-ID: <D5820CEB-1635-4A0A-BBB9-78438A8E8F75@illinois.edu>

Congratulations to Patrick!

Hans


On 8 Jun 2016, at 16:55, Lindquist, Steven <slindqui at mail.smu.edu<mailto:slindqui at mail.smu.edu>> wrote:

Dear all,

It's my pleasure to draw your attention to our own Patrick Olivelle receiving an honorary degree from the University of Chicago this weekend:

https://news.uchicago.edu/article/2016/06/03/university-bestow-three-honorary-degrees-527th-convocation<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__news.uchicago.edu_article_2016_06_03_university-2Dbestow-2Dthree-2Dhonorary-2Ddegrees-2D527th-2Dconvocation&d=CwMFAg&c=8hUWFZcy2Z-Za5rBPlktOQ&r=yKOAMu7Fm_W5kv9CXfjbmb6aWTY6BVQCYZ5TKkB486Q&m=IBFGignENZkownIwDZm4ct4xK3z0vmtJ8DoF_wCwzHc&s=rHagUk8qkzgJW_uZHQ8RNqH-zhTDvmFbHU6jsGzLFpM&e=>

Congratulations, Patrick!

Steven


STEVEN LINDQUIST, PH.D.
ASSOCIATE PROFESSOR, RELIGIOUS STUDIES
DIRECTOR, ASIAN STUDIES
____________________

Dedman College of Humanities and Sciences, SMU
PO Box 750202 | Dallas | TX | 75275
Email: slindqui at smu.edu<mailto:slindqui at smu.edu>
Web: http://faculty.smu.edu/slindqui<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__faculty.smu.edu_slindqui&d=CwMFAg&c=8hUWFZcy2Z-Za5rBPlktOQ&r=yKOAMu7Fm_W5kv9CXfjbmb6aWTY6BVQCYZ5TKkB486Q&m=IBFGignENZkownIwDZm4ct4xK3z0vmtJ8DoF_wCwzHc&s=RvU2AyhLWUZHSrxoduxQn5zoPT-O3PGrHZ7nyPWy9lQ&e=>

_______________________________________________
INDOLOGY mailing list
INDOLOGY at list.indology.info<mailto:INDOLOGY at list.indology.info>
indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee)
http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe)



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From dmagier at princeton.edu  Thu Jun  9 20:52:25 2016
From: dmagier at princeton.edu (David Magier)
Date: Thu, 09 Jun 16 16:52:25 -0400
Subject: [INDOLOGY] request for info and connections (archives in India)
In-Reply-To: <201606092048.u59KmjXv027544@ppa04.princeton.edu>
Message-ID: <2FBAF651-5957-4BD2-AA90-AF24392A7091@princeton.edu>

Dear Colleagues,

I have a doctoral student here who is well on her way in her research on Indian Arabic scientific manuscripts. She is working on the reception of Arabic medical manuscripts (especially those of Najib al-Din al-Samarqandi [d.1222] in the context of Unani medicine in India).) She is going off to India later this summer on a substantial 9-month archival-research grant -- to be affiliated at Delhi University -- to track down the manuscripts in various collections that she knows house them, and is seeking connections to librarians and archivists (or anyone else who can help her get access) whom she could try to connect with by post or email ahead of time, to improve her chances of getting to see the mss she wants while she is there. She is interested in the following institutions:

New Delhi
     Indian Institute of the History of Medicine and Medical Research
     Jamia Hamdard
     Central Council for Research in Unani Medicine - Library

Aligarh
     Aligarh Muslim University - Azad Library
     Ajmal Khan Tibbia College, AMU
     Ibn Sina Academy of Medieval Medicine and Sciences

Rampur
     Raza Library

Patna
     Khuda Bakhsh Library

Calcutta
     Asiatic Society of Bengal
     Buhar Library
     Aliah University - was Calcutta Madrasa

Hyderabad
     Osmania University
     Salar Jung Museum and Library
     Nizamiya Tibbia College and Hospital

Bangalore
     National Institute of Unani Medicine
     Goverment Unani Medical College

I've advised her to get in touch with Anwar Moazzim in Hyderabad for starts. Would any of you have advice on additional contacts or general suggestions for her to pursue? Feel free to reply off-list.

Many thanks for any suggestions!

David Magier
-----------------------
David Magier, PhD
Associate University Librarian for Collection Development
Princeton University
Firestone Library
One Washington Road
Princeton, NJ 08544

609-258-5710
609-258-6950 fax
dmagier at princeton.edu








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From drdj at austin.utexas.edu  Thu Jun  9 21:15:54 2016
From: drdj at austin.utexas.edu (Donald R Davis)
Date: Thu, 09 Jun 16 21:15:54 +0000
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Press Release re: SAMP Open Archives Initiative
Message-ID: <D37F46B7.10DD1%drdj@austin.utexas.edu>

Press Release re: SAMP Open Archives Initiative
Please share widely

The newly established SAMP Open Archives initiative creates and maintains a collection of open access materials for the study of South Asia. This major collaborative initiative is aimed at addressing the current scarcity of digital resources pertinent to South Asian studies and at making collections more widely accessible both to North American scholars and to researchers elsewhere in the world.

The Open Archives initiative (OAi) will address needs in all academic disciplines, from the humanities through the sciences.  With an initial emphasis on colonial-era materials from South Asia, a carefully curated collection of resources will fill gaps in available online collections.  Several criteria will be used to select and prioritize resources for digitization, including:


?         Value to research;

?         Utility for a broad population of users;

?         Uniqueness (not available through other credible, sustainable sources);

?         At risk - due to condition, environmental or sociopolitical factors, or other threats;

?         Complementarity to other resources.

The SAMP OAi currently has twenty-three members from North America and South Asia.  Institutions interested in becoming members can find additional information about the initiative and membership here<https://www.crl.edu/samp-open-archives-initiative>.

The Center for Research Libraries (CRL) is the administrative home of the SAMP OAi and is now seeking a creative and self-directed professional to coordinate the initiative. In addition to developing, implementing and administering the program, the Program Coordinator will be responsible for outreach and participating in initiatives that leverage program results for the purpose of expanding the Open Archives initiative and sources of program funding.

Qualified candidates will have (among other requirements) proven experience in developing and implementing digital projects, program management and teambuilding skills, a successful track record in developing funding proposals, communication and web authoring experience, and demonstrated foreign language capability and knowledge of South Asia, South Asian languages, culture, history, and geography.

Full position posting may be found at: http://www.crl.edu/about/employment/program-coordinator

June 9, 2016


______________________________________________
Mary Rader
Global Studies Coordinator / South Asia Librarian
University of Texas Libraries
The University of Texas at Austin
http://www.lib.utexas.edu/about/distinct/globalstudies



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From hspier.muktabodha at gmail.com  Thu Jun  9 22:10:33 2016
From: hspier.muktabodha at gmail.com (Harry Spier)
Date: Thu, 09 Jun 16 18:10:33 -0400
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Press Release re: SAMP Open Archives Initiative
In-Reply-To: <D37F46B7.10DD1%drdj@austin.utexas.edu>
Message-ID: <CAPW7aQFcb7VyJzNK4bmYRuAKnVEBFvsmxu+m36_z+7=R=v+J3Q@mail.gmail.com>

Are there any plans (or possibility) that SAMP will make available on-line
the "Indological Series on Microfilm" photographed by U. of Chicagao,
Harvard and Oriental and the British Library in the 1990's..

 I see that both Harvard and U. of Chicago are SAMP members.

http://www.lib.uchicago.edu/e/su/southasia/i-series.html
http://library.columbia.edu/locations/global/virtual-libraries/sarai/indolseries.html



Thanks,
Harry Spier

On Thu, Jun 9, 2016 at 5:15 PM, Donald R Davis <drdj at austin.utexas.edu>
wrote:

> Press Release re: SAMP Open Archives Initiative
>
> Please share widely
>
>
> The newly established SAMP Open Archives initiative creates and maintains
> a collection of open access materials for the study of South Asia. This
> major collaborative initiative is aimed at addressing the current scarcity
> of digital resources pertinent to South Asian studies and at making
> collections more widely accessible both to North American scholars and to
> researchers elsewhere in the world.
>
>
>
> The Open Archives initiative (OAi) will address needs in all academic
> disciplines, from the humanities through the sciences.  With an initial
> emphasis on colonial-era materials from South Asia, a carefully curated
> collection of resources will fill gaps in available online collections.
> Several criteria will be used to select and prioritize resources for
> digitization, including:
>
>
>
> ?         Value to research;
>
> ?         Utility for a broad population of users;
>
> ?         Uniqueness (not available through other credible, sustainable
> sources);
>
> ?         At risk ? due to condition, environmental or sociopolitical
> factors, or other threats;
>
> ?         Complementarity to other resources.
>
>
>
> The SAMP OAi currently has twenty-three members from North America and
> South Asia.  Institutions interested in becoming members can find
> additional information about the initiative and membership here
> <https://www.crl.edu/samp-open-archives-initiative>.
>
>
>
> The Center for Research Libraries (CRL) is the administrative home of the
> SAMP OAi and is now seeking a creative and self-directed professional to
> coordinate the initiative. In addition to developing, implementing and
> administering the program, the Program Coordinator will be responsible for
> outreach and participating in initiatives that leverage program results for
> the purpose of expanding the Open Archives initiative and sources of
> program funding.
>
>
>
> Qualified candidates will have (among other requirements) proven
> experience in developing and implementing digital projects, program
> management and teambuilding skills, a successful track record in developing
> funding proposals, communication and web authoring experience, and
> demonstrated foreign language capability and knowledge of South Asia, South
> Asian languages, culture, history, and geography.
>
>
>
> Full position posting may be found at:
> http://www.crl.edu/about/employment/program-coordinator
>
>
>
> June 9, 2016
>
>
>
>
>
> ______________________________________________
> Mary Rader
>
> Global Studies Coordinator / South Asia Librarian
> University of Texas Libraries
> The University of Texas at Austin
>
> http://www.lib.utexas.edu/about/distinct/globalstudies
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
> committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
> unsubscribe)
>


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From acchoda at gmail.com  Fri Jun 10 08:28:39 2016
From: acchoda at gmail.com (David Smith)
Date: Fri, 10 Jun 16 09:28:39 +0100
Subject: [INDOLOGY] pdf request: S. K. Dikshit,	A Guide to the State Museum Dhubela
Message-ID: <CAA=_wHdYZrJhCr=U63Uw6e+HDik-kP57+7WN0cvCg8eg1JHXdw@mail.gmail.com>

Dear Colleagues,

Does anyone have a pdf of S. K. Dikshit, A Guide to the State Museum
Dhubela?

Cheers,

David Smith
Reader in South Asian Religions (retired)
Lancaster University, UK
acchoda at gmail.com


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From alex.watson at ashoka.edu.in  Fri Jun 10 10:36:28 2016
From: alex.watson at ashoka.edu.in (Alex Watson)
Date: Fri, 10 Jun 16 16:06:28 +0530
Subject: =?utf-8?B?W0lORE9MT0dZXSBiYW5kaGFuxIHhuaPhua1ha2EvYmFuZGjEgeG5o+G5rWFrYS9wxIHFm8SB4bmj4bmtYWth?=
Message-ID: <CA+H=kySspBmJmo=ywUKp6NYAT2-ENkV1dUNKSF1OBKqiN25_pg@mail.gmail.com>

Dear Peter

Just in case you're not aware of it, Sanderson's (2006: 57ff.) "The Date of
Sadyojyotis and B?haspati" deals with the the Haravijaya's use of the
terminology and authoritative texts of various ?aiva systems, in particular
Saiddh?ntika scriptures and works by Sadyojyotis and B?haspati.
About the Haravijaya he writes:
"This contains in its sixth chapter a long hymn to S?iva (6.13-187) in
which the poet has Spring praise that deity as the true nature of the
diverse highest realities venerated in India?s religious systems, using the
terminology of each and working in paraphrases of formulations found in
their authoritative texts. Among these systems is the Siddha?nta, though
nothing so prosaic as an explicit statement to this effect is allowed to
compromise the obliquity required of fine verse composed for the
delectation of the court. In the verses of the hymn that draw on the
Siddha?nta we can detect echoes of the scriptures
Sva?yambhuvasu?trasa?graha, Rauravasu?trasa?graha, and
Mata?gapa?rames?vara, and also of Sadyojyotis? Sva?yambhuvav?tti and
B?haspati?s S?ivatanu."

He goes on to give specific cases, for example Haravijaya 6:161 is based on
Sadyojyotis' Sva?yambhuvavr?tti ad 3:16, and Haravijaya 6:139 is based on
Sva?yambhuvavr?tti ad 3:11?13.  However the article does not help with
6:170 or the verse cited in the commentary ad loc.

I have found numerous verses beginning pr?k?to vaik?ta? caiva (mostly in
Pur??as and ?yurvedic texts) and some verses beginning s?ttviko r?jasa?
caiva (for example in the ??ntiparvan of the Mah?bh?rata) but none of these
give a list of 8.

Yours Alex


> From: Peter Mukunda Pasedach <peter.pasedach at googlemail.com>
> To: indology at list.indology.info
> Cc:
> Date: Tue, 31 May 2016 13:33:27 +0200
> Subject: bandhan???aka/bandh???aka/p?????aka
> Dear all,
>
> I am working on the sixth chapter of Ratn?kara's Haravijaya, together with
> its commentaries by Alaka and Utpala. It is an ode to ?iva in which he is
> praised with reference to a wide variety of systems and their texts known
> at that time (Kashmir, 9th century). Thus the commentaries contain many
> quotations that Ratn?kara might have had in mind when composing his verses,
> quite some of which I haven't been able to identify yet so that I would be
> happy for pointers. Here is one:
>
> In verse 170, ending a pa?cabhi? kulakam,
>
> pratipadya ?a?kara bhavantam avyaya?
> sukhadu?khamohaparih??acetana? |
> vyativ?ttatantumayabandhan???ako
> bhagavan bhav?n iva bhavaty a?u? sphu?am || 170 ||
>
> there is mention of a bandhan???aka escaping which the a?u becomes like
> ?iva. Referring to which the commentators Alaka and Utpala quote the
> following:
>
> pr?k?to vaik?ta? c?pi (A, U: caiva) ?ha?k?rika eva ca |
> s?ttviko r?jasa? caiva t?masa? c?para? sm?ta? ||
> dharm?dharm?tmaka? ceti pa?or bandh???aka? bhavet |
> (A, U: dharm?dharmamaya? ceti pa?o? p?????aka? bhavet |)
>
> It has been suggested to me that the quotation might come from a tantric
> or ?ivadharma milieu.
>
> A parallel idea of eight bondages is described in Kul?r?avatantra
> 13.90-91, but the set there is completely different:
>
> gh??? sa?k?  bhaya? lajj? jugups?  ceti pa?cam? |
> kula? ??la? tath? j?tir a??au p???? prak?rtit?? || 90 ||
> p??abaddha?  p??ur j?eya?  p??amukto  mahe?vara? |
> tasm?t p??aharo yas tu sa guru? paramo mata? || 91 ||
>
> Best,
>
> Peter
>
> --
Alex Watson
Professor of Indian Philosophy
Ashoka University
*https://ashokauniversity.academia.edu/AlexWatson
<https://ashokauniversity.academia.edu/AlexWatson>*


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From acchoda at gmail.com  Fri Jun 10 11:38:12 2016
From: acchoda at gmail.com (David Smith)
Date: Fri, 10 Jun 16 12:38:12 +0100
Subject: [INDOLOGY] pdf request: S. K. Dikshit,	A Guide to the State Museum Dhubela
Message-ID: <CAA=_wHdg7OP22WiS1aw2u=R0m+sos=51CSqEzRMKx2rX-VJ9HA@mail.gmail.com>

Dear Colleagues,

Does anyone have a pdf of S. K. Dikshit, A Guide to the State Museum
Dhubela?

Cheers,

David Smith
Reader in South Asian Religions (retired)
Lancaster University, UK
acchoda at gmail.com


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From acchoda at gmail.com  Fri Jun 10 11:41:51 2016
From: acchoda at gmail.com (David Smith)
Date: Fri, 10 Jun 16 12:41:51 +0100
Subject: [INDOLOGY] pdf of Dikshit Guide to State Museum Dhubela
Message-ID: <CAA=_wHfYVjL+hRf-Gc+de6D9ju7LcNhp7=4q68PuhwKgvo=9kg@mail.gmail.com>

Dear Colleagues,

Does anyone have a pdf of S. K. Dikshit, A Guide to the State Museum
Dhubela?

Cheers,

David Smith
Reader in South Asian Religions (retired)
Lancaster University, UK
acchoda at gmail.com


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From krishnaprasadah.g at gmail.com  Sat Jun 11 04:50:56 2016
From: krishnaprasadah.g at gmail.com (Krishnaprasad G)
Date: Sat, 11 Jun 16 10:20:56 +0530
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Need info on Kiranavali comm on Tattvamuktakalapa
Message-ID: <CAODNnZhLp2ai8b0dm6Ks+gJGKbHUWzCXXQpLjKfjcQ1Mx+nMFQ@mail.gmail.com>

Dear all
I am looking for Kiranavali commentary on Tattvamuktakalapa, commentator
Krsnavallabhacharya. The author himself says the name of the book. But have
no clue whether this is published or not.
Any help is highly admired.
Thanks


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From jm63 at soas.ac.uk  Sat Jun 11 09:34:52 2016
From: jm63 at soas.ac.uk (James Mallinson)
Date: Sat, 11 Jun 16 10:34:52 +0100
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Medieval cities discovered in Cambodia
Message-ID: <F3EAC475-EF75-48B1-B719-188B4435821E@soas.ac.uk>

Dear List,

An item of interest to indologists is the headline news story in today?s Guardian (UK):

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/jun/11/lost-city-medieval-discovered-hidden-beneath-cambodian-jungle

All the best,

Jim







From mkapstei at uchicago.edu  Sat Jun 11 10:09:10 2016
From: mkapstei at uchicago.edu (Matthew Kapstein)
Date: Sat, 11 Jun 16 10:09:10 +0000
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Medieval cities discovered in Cambodia
In-Reply-To: <F3EAC475-EF75-48B1-B719-188B4435821E@soas.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <82C3E42590D939418C74DD76B97DDED047B9BBB2@xm-mbx-06-prod>

Very interesting indeed. But "largest 12th century empire"? Are they forgetting Song China
and the Abbasid Caliphate? And what of the Cholas?  I imagine that the superlatives are
intended for consumption by journalists and funding agencies. In all events, this is wonderful
research and it will be good, one day, to see it placed more fully into the larger South and East Asian contexts
of the period. 

Matthew Kapstein
Directeur d'?tudes,
Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes

Numata Visiting Professor of Buddhist Studies,
The University of Chicago

___________




From yaophi at gmail.com  Tue Jun 14 02:14:39 2016
From: yaophi at gmail.com (Zhihua Yao)
Date: Tue, 14 Jun 16 10:14:39 +0800
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Sanskrit diacritics Android
Message-ID: <CAHjN3oxEDLJUbLpeGTLa4MUJR7GNxYVbTAJUz9e9NDp+a5wrMQ@mail.gmail.com>

Dear colleagues,

Any suggestion on inputting Sanskrit diacritics in Android system?

Thanks.

Zhihua Yao PhD
Associate Professor of Philosophy
The Chinese University of Hong Kong


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From rmahoney at fastmail.com  Tue Jun 14 02:40:55 2016
From: rmahoney at fastmail.com (Richard Mahoney)
Date: Tue, 14 Jun 16 14:40:55 +1200
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Sanskrit diacritics Android
In-Reply-To: <CAHjN3oxEDLJUbLpeGTLa4MUJR7GNxYVbTAJUz9e9NDp+a5wrMQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20160614144055.000061d4@fastmail.com>

On Tue, 14 Jun 2016 10:14:39 +0800
Zhihua Yao <yaophi at gmail.com> wrote:

> Dear colleagues,
> 
> Any suggestion on inputting Sanskrit diacritics in Android system?
> 
> Thanks.
> 
> Zhihua Yao PhD
> Associate Professor of Philosophy
> The Chinese University of Hong Kong
> 

http://keyman.com/android/



Best, Richard



-- 
Richard Mahoney | Indica et Buddhica

Littledene  Bay Road  Oxford  New Zealand
+64-3-312-1699  r.mahoney at indica-et-buddhica.org
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From dcgunkel at gmail.com  Tue Jun 14 10:09:55 2016
From: dcgunkel at gmail.com (Dieter Gunkel)
Date: Tue, 14 Jun 16 12:09:55 +0200
Subject: [INDOLOGY] FS Stephanie W. Jamison
Message-ID: <CADVOX35j9nx8wUYs6ULfZu=_hc9rgj8M4S2mM0OzrFaV3xYGFQ@mail.gmail.com>

Dear all,

A Festschrift honoring Stephanie W. Jamison is now available from Beech
Stave Press. The table of contents may be viewed here:

http://www.beechstave.com/index.htm.

Best wishes,

Dieter Gunkel


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From wujastyk at gmail.com  Tue Jun 14 17:49:25 2016
From: wujastyk at gmail.com (Dominik Wujastyk)
Date: Tue, 14 Jun 16 11:49:25 -0600
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Need info on Kiranavali comm on Tattvamuktakalapa
In-Reply-To: <CAODNnZhLp2ai8b0dm6Ks+gJGKbHUWzCXXQpLjKfjcQ1Mx+nMFQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAKdt-Ccv7zJ0Qwzr5ZkOoc0VUSS1+mZ-b7Xe5PGi2jcw-Mtntw@mail.gmail.com>

NCC volume 8, pp. 58--59, does not mention this commentary under
"Tattvamukt?kal?pa".

--
Professor Dominik Wujastyk* <http://ualberta.Academia.edu/DominikWujastyk>
Singhmar Chair in Classical Indian Society and Polity
Department of History and Classics <http://historyandclassics.ualberta.ca/>
University of Alberta, Canada

On 10 June 2016 at 22:50, Krishnaprasad G <krishnaprasadah.g at gmail.com>
wrote:

> Dear all
> I am looking for Kiranavali commentary on Tattvamuktakalapa, commentator
> Krsnavallabhacharya. The author himself says the name of the book. But have
> no clue whether this is published or not.
> Any help is highly admired.
> Thanks
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
> committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
> unsubscribe)
>


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From clemency.montelle at canterbury.ac.nz  Tue Jun 14 22:02:47 2016
From: clemency.montelle at canterbury.ac.nz (Clemency Montelle)
Date: Tue, 14 Jun 16 22:02:47 +0000
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Identification of calendrical (?) object
Message-ID: <373FE003EA3D2949BCC16219C67CBBF77FB55F11@UCEXMBX04-I.canterbury.ac.nz>

Dear List,

My New Zealand colleague Dr Robert Hannah, a specialist in Greek and Roman calendars among other things, was giving a lecture about Greek calendars to a local community group the other week, and one of the audience asked if he could identify an object that he had bought some years ago in South Australia and which he thought had originally come from Indonesia.

He remarks:

"It's a lidded cylindrical container, made of wood, and inscribed with patterns, which the owner thought might indicate a calendar. The body is mainly inscribed with a rectangular field that is divided into 30 columns and 12 rows, all crossed by five diagonal lines. The small 'boxes' created by the columns and rows sometimes have four tiny vertical lines, sometimes are blank, sometimes have some kind of image in them (I think).   The 360 'boxes' might suggest something inclining to a calendar"

The object is curious indeed! I attach his photos below.  Please let us know if anyone has seen such an artefact before and what it might represent.

With best wishes,
Clemency

----
Dr Clemency Montelle
http://www.math.canterbury.ac.nz/~c.montelle/
School of Mathematics and Statistics
University of Canterbury | Te Whare Wananga o Waitaha
Private Bag 4800, Christchurch 8140
NEW ZEALAND

[cid:image001.jpg at 01D1C6ED.1026C4A0][cid:image002.jpg at 01D1C6ED.1026C4A0][cid:image003.jpg at 01D1C6ED.1026C4A0]

This email may be confidential and subject to legal privilege, it may
not reflect the views of the University of Canterbury, and it is not
guaranteed to be virus free. If you are not an intended recipient,
please notify the sender immediately and erase all copies of the message
and any attachments.

Please refer to http://www.canterbury.ac.nz/emaildisclaimer for more
information.


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From alanus1216 at yahoo.com  Wed Jun 15 03:02:40 2016
From: alanus1216 at yahoo.com (Allen Thrasher)
Date: Wed, 15 Jun 16 03:02:40 +0000
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Identification of calendrical (?) object
In-Reply-To: <373FE003EA3D2949BCC16219C67CBBF77FB55F11@UCEXMBX04-I.canterbury.ac.nz>
Message-ID: <538577841.3337818.1465959760827.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>

It strikes me as looking somewhat like some Batak objects, and it may also be possible that it represents some divisions of time for divination, but not necessarily a calendar.
Allen Thrasher

Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android 
 
  On Tue, Jun 14, 2016 at 6:02 PM, Clemency Montelle<clemency.montelle at canterbury.ac.nz> wrote:   
Dear List, 
 
 ?
 
My New Zealand colleague Dr Robert Hannah, a specialist in Greek and Roman calendars among other things, was giving a lecture?about Greek calendars to a local community group the other week, and one of the audience asked if he could identify an object that he had bought some years ago in South Australia and which he thought had originally come from Indonesia.?
 
 ?
 
He remarks:
 
 ?
 
"It's a lidded cylindrical container, made of wood, and inscribed with?patterns, which the owner thought might indicate a calendar. The body is mainly inscribed with a rectangular field that is divided into 30 columns and 12 rows, all crossed by five diagonal lines. The small 'boxes' created by the columns and rows sometimes have?four tiny vertical lines, sometimes are blank, sometimes have some kind of image in them (I think). ? The 360 'boxes' might suggest something inclining to?a calendar"
 
 ?
 
The object is curious indeed! I attach his photos below. ?Please let us know if anyone has seen such an artefact before and what it might represent.
 
 ?
 
With best wishes,
 
Clemency
 
 ?
 
----
 
Dr Clemency Montelle
 
http://www.math.canterbury.ac.nz/~c.montelle/
 
School of Mathematics and Statistics
 
University of Canterbury | Te Whare Wananga o Waitaha
 
Private Bag 4800, Christchurch 8140
 
NEW ZEALAND
 
 ?
 

   


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From disimone at alumni.stanford.edu  Wed Jun 15 19:18:53 2016
From: disimone at alumni.stanford.edu (Charles DiSimone)
Date: Wed, 15 Jun 16 21:18:53 +0200
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Call for Papers: 8th International Indological Graduate Research Symposium (IIGRS 8), Oct 29-30 at LMU Munich
Message-ID: <CADKD_zgw-PF-jKGuA2HwL5GVS_j7TXqNmzvRJ91XmXKjK_7G9A@mail.gmail.com>

Dear colleagues,

We are pleased to announce that the 8th International Indological Graduate
Research Symposium (IIGRS 8) will be held at
Ludwig-Maximilians-Universit?t in Munich on October 29-30 (Sat-Sun), 2016.

We would like to invite all M.A. and PhD students as well as early career
scholars (who have completed their PhDs within the past five years) to send
their abstracts to iigrsuk at googlemail.com by July 20th. We will inform you
about the outcome of your application no later than August 1st. If you
would like to apply for separate funding and need the acceptance before
this time, please send us your abstract with a separate notification as
soon as possible.

As Munich is a center for research on Buddhist Studies, scholars with
papers dealing with issues involving Buddhism and Indology are especially
encouraged to attend. Naturally, however, we wish to have papers not only
on Buddhism but the entire gamut of Indology and all papers dealing with
any indological research centered around the study of texts in their
original language will be considered by the selection committee. For
further information please have a look at our website at
https://iigrs.wordpress.com or contact us directly at iigrsuk at googlemail.com
.

Abstracts should not exceed 300 words and should include:

1) Your name and institution, together with your status as a postgraduate
student. If you have recently completed your post-graduate studies you
should indicate this and provide details of your previous institution.
2) The title of your paper.
3) A broad indication of its subject area.
4) An outline of its contents.

Please send your abstract in both Word and PDF format.

Details concerning registration will be announced on our website soon. It
is possible that some travel funding may become available and we will
inform participants of this at a later date. In the meantime, we encourage
those interested in attending to secure funding from their home institution.

If you are teaching at an institution, we would be very grateful if you
could circulate this information among your students.

Yours faithfully,
Charles DiSimone, Andrea Schlosser, and Jinkyoung Choi
Institut f?r Indologie und Tibetologie
Ludwig-Maximilians-Universit?t M?nchen

-- 
Charles DiSimone
Promotionsprogramm Buddhismus-Studien
Institut f?r Indologie und Tibetologie
Ludwig-Maximilians-Universit?t M?nchen


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From drdj at austin.utexas.edu  Thu Jun 16 14:53:07 2016
From: drdj at austin.utexas.edu (Donald R Davis)
Date: Thu, 16 Jun 16 14:53:07 +0000
Subject: [INDOLOGY] J?ti as Caste in Ny?ya?
Message-ID: <D3882780.11447%drdj@austin.utexas.edu>

Dear Colleagues,

I would be grateful for additional references to an argument mentioned in Jayanta Bhatta?s ?gama?ambara 4.143-4 (in Dezso?s edition in the Clay series).  The question is whether the j?ti of Brahmins, etc. is like the j?ti of cow-ness, etc. in being empirically observable or directly perceivable.  Jayanta refers to those who say that verbal/textual testimony alone (?abdam?tre?a) establishes the four-var?a system.  This prefigures an argument made in Vij??ne?vara?s Mit?k?ar? (on Yaj 1.90) where the same distinction is drawn to refute an objection.

I assumed Jayanta would have made a similar argument in his Ny?yama?jar?, but I have not been able to locate it (probably because I barely know the Ny?ya literature).  If anyone could point me toward other instances of this issue, whether in original sources or contemporary research, I?d appreciate it.

Best,

Don Davis
Dept of Asian Studies
University of Texas at Austin


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From John.Brockington at btinternet.com  Thu Jun 16 14:58:45 2016
From: John.Brockington at btinternet.com (John Brockington)
Date: Thu, 16 Jun 16 15:58:45 +0100
Subject: [INDOLOGY] new pubication
Message-ID: <d94f6c46-d45e-be85-21ec-6d8ddbf854db@btinternet.com>

Dear Colleagues,

I am pleased to announce the publication earlier this month of /The 
Other R?m?ya?a Women: regional rejection and response,/ ed. by John 
Brockington and Mary Brockington, with Mandakranta Bose, in the 
Routledge Hindu Studies Series (Abingdon: Routledge, 2016).  ISBN 
9781138934016.

Regards

John Brockington


Professor J. L. Brockington

Emeritus Professor of Sanskrit, University of Edinburgh

Vice President, International Association of Sanskrit Studies

Interim Academic Director, Oxford Centre for Hindu Studies

  
113 Rutten Lane
Yarnton
Kidlington 0X5 1LT
tel: 01865 849438



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From francois.voegeli at gmail.com  Thu Jun 16 15:27:39 2016
From: francois.voegeli at gmail.com (Francois Voegeli)
Date: Thu, 16 Jun 16 17:27:39 +0200
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Obscure compound
Message-ID: <9571F75E-C3E7-4EB4-A1EC-914F7FF65D47@gmail.com>

Dear Members of the List,

In a ma?gal? to Sarasvat?, I found the obscure compound ?madhukhallak?sa?gam?? qualifying the Goddess.

Does anyone have an idea on the way to resolve this compound? Especially what is/would be ?khallak??, or ?madhukhallak?"?

Thanks in advance,

F. Voegeli


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From wujastyk at gmail.com  Thu Jun 16 15:53:35 2016
From: wujastyk at gmail.com (Dominik Wujastyk)
Date: Thu, 16 Jun 16 09:53:35 -0600
Subject: [INDOLOGY] J?ti as Caste in Ny?ya?
In-Reply-To: <D3882780.11447%drdj@austin.utexas.edu>
Message-ID: <CAKdt-Cfe2w6gcZWwHB7jQFY4EjFHzY1kPzNqW7oK=rE8uK4EZw@mail.gmail.com>

?Dear Don,

This interests me a lot, and I'd be grateful to read what you might write
about it in future.  It's on my back-burner, but I've long wondered whether
Sanskritic narratives about jati and varna can be thought about in ways
similar to eighteenth and nineteenth century European narratives about
races and species.  Were people of different varnas formally considered to
be of different "species?"   It's a bit shocking to think in these terms,
but I've been wondering about it.  If you ever put flesh on these bones,
one way or another, or can point me to existing discussions on this, I'd be
really interested.

Best,
Dominik

--
Professor Dominik Wujastyk* <http://ualberta.Academia.edu/DominikWujastyk>
Singhmar Chair in Classical Indian Society and Polity
Department of History and Classics <http://historyandclassics.ualberta.ca/>
University of Alberta, Canada

On 16 June 2016 at 08:53, Donald R Davis <drdj at austin.utexas.edu> wrote:

> Dear Colleagues,
>
> I would be grateful for additional references to an argument mentioned in
> Jayanta Bhatta?s *?gama?ambara* 4.143-4 (in Dezso?s edition in the Clay
> series).  The question is whether the *j?ti* of Brahmins, etc. is like
> the *j?ti* of cow-ness, etc. in being empirically observable or directly
> perceivable.  Jayanta refers to those who say that verbal/textual testimony
> alone (*?abdam?tre?a*) establishes the four-*var?a* system.  This
> prefigures an argument made in Vij??ne?vara?s *Mit?k?ar?* (on Yaj 1.90)
> where the same distinction is drawn to refute an objection.
>
> I assumed Jayanta would have made a similar argument in his *Ny?yama?jar?*,
> but I have not been able to locate it (probably because I barely know the
> Ny?ya literature).  If anyone could point me toward other instances of this
> issue, whether in original sources or contemporary research, I?d appreciate
> it.
>
> Best,
>
> Don Davis
> Dept of Asian Studies
> University of Texas at Austin
>
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
> committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
> unsubscribe)
>


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From rajam at earthlink.net  Thu Jun 16 16:37:03 2016
From: rajam at earthlink.net (rajam)
Date: Thu, 16 Jun 16 09:37:03 -0700
Subject: [INDOLOGY] J?ti as Caste in Ny?ya?
In-Reply-To: <CAKdt-Cfe2w6gcZWwHB7jQFY4EjFHzY1kPzNqW7oK=rE8uK4EZw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <EF78AAE5-433B-45A7-8861-FF4D3F78C708@earthlink.net>

Many thanks to the originator of this thread!

Right now, I just want to register the fact that I?m very much interested in this topic.

Last year (May 2015), I had a publication (in Tamil) about references to, or a lack there of, ?j?ti? and ?caste? (as we understand it today) in Old Tamil literature/grammar, also known as Sangam literature/grammar.

I don?t know how many of you are aware of the fact that the English word ?caste? has its origin in the Portuguese word ?casta,? which was first recorded in Arte da Lingua Malabar written by Fr. Henrique Henriques in the mid-16th century. 

If one wants to dig deep into the understanding of the terms such as ?j?ti? and ?caste? ? one has to have a minimal understanding of the origins of the Western contact with India, which happened in the early 16-th century through Portuguese arrival in South India.

Thanks and regards,
V.S.Rajam


> On Jun 16, 2016, at 8:53 AM, Dominik Wujastyk <wujastyk at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> ?Dear Don,
> 
> This interests me a lot, and I'd be grateful to read what you might write about it in future.  It's on my back-burner, but I've long wondered whether Sanskritic narratives about jati and varna can be thought about in ways similar to eighteenth and nineteenth century European narratives about races and species.  Were people of different varnas formally considered to be of different "species?"   It's a bit shocking to think in these terms, but I've been wondering about it.  If you ever put flesh on these bones, one way or another, or can point me to existing discussions on this, I'd be really interested.
> 
> Best,
> Dominik
> 
> --
> Professor Dominik Wujastyk* <http://ualberta.academia.edu/DominikWujastyk>
> Singhmar Chair in Classical Indian Society and Polity
> Department of History and Classics <http://historyandclassics.ualberta.ca/>
> University of Alberta, Canada
> 
> On 16 June 2016 at 08:53, Donald R Davis <drdj at austin.utexas.edu <mailto:drdj at austin.utexas.edu>> wrote:
> Dear Colleagues,
> 
> I would be grateful for additional references to an argument mentioned in Jayanta Bhatta?s ?gama?ambara 4.143-4 (in Dezso?s edition in the Clay series).  The question is whether the j?ti of Brahmins, etc. is like the j?ti of cow-ness, etc. in being empirically observable or directly perceivable.  Jayanta refers to those who say that verbal/textual testimony alone (?abdam?tre?a) establishes the four-var?a system.  This prefigures an argument made in Vij??ne?vara?s Mit?k?ar? (on Yaj 1.90) where the same distinction is drawn to refute an objection.
> 
> I assumed Jayanta would have made a similar argument in his Ny?yama?jar?, but I have not been able to locate it (probably because I barely know the Ny?ya literature).  If anyone could point me toward other instances of this issue, whether in original sources or contemporary research, I?d appreciate it.
> 
> Best,
> 
> Don Davis
> Dept of Asian Studies
> University of Texas at Austin
> 
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info <mailto:INDOLOGY at list.indology.info>
> indology-owner at list.indology.info <mailto:indology-owner at list.indology.info> (messages to the list's managing committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info <http://listinfo.indology.info/> (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe)
> 
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe)



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From johannes.bronkhorst at unil.ch  Thu Jun 16 16:40:04 2016
From: johannes.bronkhorst at unil.ch (Johannes Bronkhorst)
Date: Thu, 16 Jun 16 16:40:04 +0000
Subject: [INDOLOGY] J?ti as Caste in Ny?ya?
In-Reply-To: <EF78AAE5-433B-45A7-8861-FF4D3F78C708@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <208E5036-D8D5-41D7-B5A7-D0F87066BEBA@unil.ch>

Vincent Eltschinger?s ? Caste ? et philosophie bouddhique (Vienna 2000) seems relevant in this connection. An English version of this book is also available:
Caste and Buddhist Philosophy: Continuity of Some Buddhist Arguments Against the Realist Interpretation of Social Denominations (Motilal Banarsidass 2012)
Johannes

On 16 juin 2016, at 18:37, rajam <rajam at earthlink.net<mailto:rajam at earthlink.net>> wrote:

Many thanks to the originator of this thread!

Right now, I just want to register the fact that I?m very much interested in this topic.

Last year (May 2015), I had a publication (in Tamil) about references to, or a lack there of, ?j?ti? and ?caste? (as we understand it today) in Old Tamil literature/grammar, also known as Sangam literature/grammar.

I don?t know how many of you are aware of the fact that the English word ?caste? has its origin in the Portuguese word ?casta,? which was first recorded in Arte da Lingua Malabar written by Fr. Henrique Henriques in the mid-16th century.

If one wants to dig deep into the understanding of the terms such as ?j?ti? and ?caste? ? one has to have a minimal understanding of the origins of the Western contact with India, which happened in the early 16-th century through Portuguese arrival in South India.

Thanks and regards,
V.S.Rajam


On Jun 16, 2016, at 8:53 AM, Dominik Wujastyk <wujastyk at gmail.com<mailto:wujastyk at gmail.com>> wrote:

?Dear Don,

This interests me a lot, and I'd be grateful to read what you might write about it in future.  It's on my back-burner, but I've long wondered whether Sanskritic narratives about jati and varna can be thought about in ways similar to eighteenth and nineteenth century European narratives about races and species.  Were people of different varnas formally considered to be of different "species?"   It's a bit shocking to think in these terms, but I've been wondering about it.  If you ever put flesh on these bones, one way or another, or can point me to existing discussions on this, I'd be really interested.

Best,
Dominik

--
Professor Dominik Wujastyk*<http://ualberta.academia.edu/DominikWujastyk>
Singhmar Chair in Classical Indian Society and Polity
Department of History and Classics<http://historyandclassics.ualberta.ca/>
University of Alberta, Canada

On 16 June 2016 at 08:53, Donald R Davis <drdj at austin.utexas.edu<mailto:drdj at austin.utexas.edu>> wrote:
Dear Colleagues,

I would be grateful for additional references to an argument mentioned in Jayanta Bhatta?s ?gama?ambara 4.143-4 (in Dezso?s edition in the Clay series).  The question is whether the j?ti of Brahmins, etc. is like the j?ti of cow-ness, etc. in being empirically observable or directly perceivable.  Jayanta refers to those who say that verbal/textual testimony alone (?abdam?tre?a) establishes the four-var?a system.  This prefigures an argument made in Vij??ne?vara?s Mit?k?ar? (on Yaj 1.90) where the same distinction is drawn to refute an objection.

I assumed Jayanta would have made a similar argument in his Ny?yama?jar?, but I have not been able to locate it (probably because I barely know the Ny?ya literature).  If anyone could point me toward other instances of this issue, whether in original sources or contemporary research, I?d appreciate it.

Best,

Don Davis
Dept of Asian Studies
University of Texas at Austin

_______________________________________________
INDOLOGY mailing list
INDOLOGY at list.indology.info<mailto:INDOLOGY at list.indology.info>
indology-owner at list.indology.info<mailto:indology-owner at list.indology.info> (messages to the list's managing committee)
http://listinfo.indology.info<http://listinfo.indology.info/> (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe)

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From drdj at austin.utexas.edu  Thu Jun 16 18:41:44 2016
From: drdj at austin.utexas.edu (Donald R Davis)
Date: Thu, 16 Jun 16 18:41:44 +0000
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Jati as Caste in Nyaya?
Message-ID: <D3885B6B.11537%drdj@austin.utexas.edu>

My thanks to Sam Wright who pointed me to the following:

Wilhelm Halbfass, ?Homo Hierarchicus: The Conceptualization of the Varna System in Indian Thought,? in Tradition and Reflecton. SUNY Press, 1991. [contains a long discussion of the jati as caste and as universal in the works of several authors, including Jayanta and, especially, Kumarila on pp. 363ff.]

Samuel Wright, "History in the Abstract: ?Brahman-ness? and the Discipline of Nyaya in Seventeenth-Century Varanasi.? Journal of Indian Philosophy, forthcoming.

The issue is discussed on page 204 in Sukla, S. N. (Ed.). (1971). Nya?yama?jari? of Jayanta Bhat?t?a (Part I). The Kashi Sanskrit Series 106, Nyaya Section No. 15. Varanasi: Chowkhamba Sanskrit Series Office.

Best, Don

From: INDOLOGY <indology-bounces at list.indology.info<mailto:indology-bounces at list.indology.info>> on behalf of Johannes Bronkhorst <johannes.bronkhorst at unil.ch<mailto:johannes.bronkhorst at unil.ch>>
Date: Thursday, June 16, 2016 at 11:40 AM
To: rajam <rajam at earthlink.net<mailto:rajam at earthlink.net>>
Cc: Dominik Wujastyk <wujastyk at gmail.com<mailto:wujastyk at gmail.com>>, "indology at list.indology.info<mailto:indology at list.indology.info>" <indology at list.indology.info<mailto:indology at list.indology.info>>
Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] J?ti as Caste in Ny?ya?

Vincent Eltschinger?s ? Caste ? et philosophie bouddhique (Vienna 2000) seems relevant in this connection. An English version of this book is also available:
Caste and Buddhist Philosophy: Continuity of Some Buddhist Arguments Against the Realist Interpretation of Social Denominations (Motilal Banarsidass 2012)
Johannes

On 16 juin 2016, at 18:37, rajam <rajam at earthlink.net<mailto:rajam at earthlink.net>> wrote:

Many thanks to the originator of this thread!

Right now, I just want to register the fact that I?m very much interested in this topic.

Last year (May 2015), I had a publication (in Tamil) about references to, or a lack there of, ?j?ti? and ?caste? (as we understand it today) in Old Tamil literature/grammar, also known as Sangam literature/grammar.

I don?t know how many of you are aware of the fact that the English word ?caste? has its origin in the Portuguese word ?casta,? which was first recorded in Arte da Lingua Malabar written by Fr. Henrique Henriques in the mid-16th century.

If one wants to dig deep into the understanding of the terms such as ?j?ti? and ?caste? ? one has to have a minimal understanding of the origins of the Western contact with India, which happened in the early 16-th century through Portuguese arrival in South India.

Thanks and regards,
V.S.Rajam


On Jun 16, 2016, at 8:53 AM, Dominik Wujastyk <wujastyk at gmail.com<mailto:wujastyk at gmail.com>> wrote:

?Dear Don,

This interests me a lot, and I'd be grateful to read what you might write about it in future.  It's on my back-burner, but I've long wondered whether Sanskritic narratives about jati and varna can be thought about in ways similar to eighteenth and nineteenth century European narratives about races and species.  Were people of different varnas formally considered to be of different "species?"   It's a bit shocking to think in these terms, but I've been wondering about it.  If you ever put flesh on these bones, one way or another, or can point me to existing discussions on this, I'd be really interested.

Best,
Dominik

--
Professor Dominik Wujastyk*<http://ualberta.academia.edu/DominikWujastyk>
Singhmar Chair in Classical Indian Society and Polity
Department of History and Classics<http://historyandclassics.ualberta.ca/>
University of Alberta, Canada

On 16 June 2016 at 08:53, Donald R Davis <drdj at austin.utexas.edu<mailto:drdj at austin.utexas.edu>> wrote:
Dear Colleagues,

I would be grateful for additional references to an argument mentioned in Jayanta Bhatta?s ?gama?ambara 4.143-4 (in Dezso?s edition in the Clay series).  The question is whether the j?ti of Brahmins, etc. is like the j?ti of cow-ness, etc. in being empirically observable or directly perceivable.  Jayanta refers to those who say that verbal/textual testimony alone (?abdam?tre?a) establishes the four-var?a system.  This prefigures an argument made in Vij??ne?vara?s Mit?k?ar? (on Yaj 1.90) where the same distinction is drawn to refute an objection.

I assumed Jayanta would have made a similar argument in his Ny?yama?jar?, but I have not been able to locate it (probably because I barely know the Ny?ya literature).  If anyone could point me toward other instances of this issue, whether in original sources or contemporary research, I?d appreciate it.

Best,

Don Davis
Dept of Asian Studies
University of Texas at Austin

_______________________________________________
INDOLOGY mailing list
INDOLOGY at list.indology.info<mailto:INDOLOGY at list.indology.info>
indology-owner at list.indology.info<mailto:indology-owner at list.indology.info> (messages to the list's managing committee)
http://listinfo.indology.info<http://listinfo.indology.info/> (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe)

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From nagarajpaturi at gmail.com  Thu Jun 16 18:49:01 2016
From: nagarajpaturi at gmail.com (Nagaraj Paturi)
Date: Fri, 17 Jun 16 00:19:01 +0530
Subject: [INDOLOGY] J?ti as Caste in Ny?ya?
In-Reply-To: <208E5036-D8D5-41D7-B5A7-D0F87066BEBA@unil.ch>
Message-ID: <CAJGj9eaE8c=BT7FUYbi6b5u7LZ0MQh5w=iJv0k-QH3yjo+fQqA@mail.gmail.com>

1. While the discussion of Jayanta is mentioned to be on Varnas, the title
of the post /thread has 'caste' in it. Since it is now well established
that these two are two different categories /concepts, we might need to be
careful about this distinction.

2. For Nyaya, gotva is as much a jaati as  ghaTatva is jaati. ghaTatvajaati
is as much empirically observable and directly perceivable as
gotvajaati.

3. Those mentioned by Jayanta are not saying BraahmaNatva etc. are not like
gotva etc. They are saying exactly the opposite. They are saying 'because
braahmanatva etc. are not like gotva etc. the validity of what all Brahmins
have in common can be verified / known only through a different source of
knowledge than the one that can establish what all cows have in common.

On Thu, Jun 16, 2016 at 10:10 PM, Johannes Bronkhorst <
johannes.bronkhorst at unil.ch> wrote:

> Vincent Eltschinger?s *? Caste ? et philosophie bouddhique* (Vienna 2000)
> seems relevant in this connection. An English version of this book is also
> available:
>
> *Caste and Buddhist Philosophy: Continuity of Some Buddhist Arguments
> Against the Realist Interpretation of Social Denominations* (Motilal
> Banarsidass 2012)
> Johannes
>
> On 16 juin 2016, at 18:37, rajam <rajam at earthlink.net> wrote:
>
> Many thanks to the originator of this thread!
>
> Right now, I just want to register the fact that I?m very much interested
> in this topic.
>
> Last year (May 2015), I had a publication (in Tamil) about references to,
> or a lack there of, ?j?ti? and ?caste? (as we understand it today) in Old
> Tamil literature/grammar, also known as Sangam literature/grammar.
>
> I don?t know how many of you are aware of the fact that the English
> word ?caste? has its origin in the Portuguese word ?casta,? which was first
> recorded in *Arte da Lingua Malabar* written by Fr. Henrique Henriques in
> the mid-16th century.
>
> If one wants to dig deep into the understanding of the terms such as
> ?j?ti? and ?caste? ? one has to have a minimal understanding of the origins
> of the Western contact with India, which happened in the early 16-th
> century through Portuguese arrival in South India.
>
> Thanks and regards,
> V.S.Rajam
>
>
> On Jun 16, 2016, at 8:53 AM, Dominik Wujastyk <wujastyk at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> ?Dear Don,
>
> This interests me a lot, and I'd be grateful to read what you might write
> about it in future.  It's on my back-burner, but I've long wondered whether
> Sanskritic narratives about jati and varna can be thought about in ways
> similar to eighteenth and nineteenth century European narratives about
> races and species.  Were people of different varnas formally considered to
> be of different "species?"   It's a bit shocking to think in these terms,
> but I've been wondering about it.  If you ever put flesh on these bones,
> one way or another, or can point me to existing discussions on this, I'd be
> really interested.
>
> Best,
> Dominik
>
> --
> Professor Dominik Wujastyk* <http://ualberta.academia.edu/DominikWujastyk>
> Singhmar Chair in Classical Indian Society and Polity
> Department of History and Classics
> <http://historyandclassics.ualberta.ca/>
> University of Alberta, Canada
>
> On 16 June 2016 at 08:53, Donald R Davis <drdj at austin.utexas.edu> wrote:
>
>> Dear Colleagues,
>>
>> I would be grateful for additional references to an argument mentioned in
>> Jayanta Bhatta?s *?gama?ambara* 4.143-4 (in Dezso?s edition in the Clay
>> series).  The question is whether the *j?ti* of Brahmins, etc. is like
>> the *j?ti* of cow-ness, etc. in being empirically observable or directly
>> perceivable.  Jayanta refers to those who say that verbal/textual testimony
>> alone (*?abdam?tre?a*) establishes the four-*var?a* system.  This
>> prefigures an argument made in Vij??ne?vara?s *Mit?k?ar?* (on Yaj 1.90)
>> where the same distinction is drawn to refute an objection.
>>
>> I assumed Jayanta would have made a similar argument in his *
>> Ny?yama?jar?*, but I have not been able to locate it (probably because I
>> barely know the Ny?ya literature).  If anyone could point me toward other
>> instances of this issue, whether in original sources or contemporary
>> research, I?d appreciate it.
>>
>> Best,
>>
>> Don Davis
>> Dept of Asian Studies
>> University of Texas at Austin
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
>> committee)
>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
>> unsubscribe)
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
> committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
> unsubscribe)
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
> committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
> unsubscribe)
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
> committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
> unsubscribe)
>



-- 
Nagaraj Paturi

Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.

Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies

FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of  Liberal Education,

(Pune, Maharashtra, INDIA )


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From nagarajpaturi at gmail.com  Thu Jun 16 18:51:56 2016
From: nagarajpaturi at gmail.com (Nagaraj Paturi)
Date: Fri, 17 Jun 16 00:21:56 +0530
Subject: [INDOLOGY] J?ti as Caste in Ny?ya?
In-Reply-To: <CAJGj9eaE8c=BT7FUYbi6b5u7LZ0MQh5w=iJv0k-QH3yjo+fQqA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAJGj9eZ75D0BS4FX-=_2mZwFvXxdnwS6UqSuJmvtg_Rhzk_gug@mail.gmail.com>

Correction:
I typed:
3. Those mentioned by Jayanta are not saying BraahmaNatva etc. are *not
like *gotva etc. They are saying exactly the opposite. They are saying
'because braahmanatva etc. are not like gotva etc. the validity of what all
Brahmins have in common can be verified / known only through a different
source of knowledge than the one that can establish what all cows have in
common.

I wanted to say:

3. Those mentioned by Jayanta are not saying BraahmaNatva etc. are *like
gotva *etc. They are saying exactly the opposite. They are saying 'because
braahmanatva etc. are not like gotva etc. the validity of what all Brahmins
have in common can be verified / known only through a different source of
knowledge than the one that can establish what all cows have in common.

On Fri, Jun 17, 2016 at 12:19 AM, Nagaraj Paturi <nagarajpaturi at gmail.com>
wrote:

> 1. While the discussion of Jayanta is mentioned to be on Varnas, the title
> of the post /thread has 'caste' in it. Since it is now well established
> that these two are two different categories /concepts, we might need to be
> careful about this distinction.
>
> 2. For Nyaya, gotva is as much a jaati as  ghaTatva is jaati.
> ghaTatvajaati is as much empirically observable and directly perceivable as
> gotvajaati.
>
> 3. Those mentioned by Jayanta are not saying BraahmaNatva etc. are not
> like gotva etc. They are saying exactly the opposite. They are saying
> 'because braahmanatva etc. are not like gotva etc. the validity of what all
> Brahmins have in common can be verified / known only through a different
> source of knowledge than the one that can establish what all cows have in
> common.
>
> On Thu, Jun 16, 2016 at 10:10 PM, Johannes Bronkhorst <
> johannes.bronkhorst at unil.ch> wrote:
>
>> Vincent Eltschinger?s *? Caste ? et philosophie bouddhique* (Vienna
>> 2000) seems relevant in this connection. An English version of this book is
>> also available:
>>
>> *Caste and Buddhist Philosophy: Continuity of Some Buddhist Arguments
>> Against the Realist Interpretation of Social Denominations* (Motilal
>> Banarsidass 2012)
>> Johannes
>>
>> On 16 juin 2016, at 18:37, rajam <rajam at earthlink.net> wrote:
>>
>> Many thanks to the originator of this thread!
>>
>> Right now, I just want to register the fact that I?m very much interested
>> in this topic.
>>
>> Last year (May 2015), I had a publication (in Tamil) about references to,
>> or a lack there of, ?j?ti? and ?caste? (as we understand it today) in Old
>> Tamil literature/grammar, also known as Sangam literature/grammar.
>>
>> I don?t know how many of you are aware of the fact that the English
>> word ?caste? has its origin in the Portuguese word ?casta,? which was first
>> recorded in *Arte da Lingua Malabar* written by Fr. Henrique Henriques
>> in the mid-16th century.
>>
>> If one wants to dig deep into the understanding of the terms such as
>> ?j?ti? and ?caste? ? one has to have a minimal understanding of the origins
>> of the Western contact with India, which happened in the early 16-th
>> century through Portuguese arrival in South India.
>>
>> Thanks and regards,
>> V.S.Rajam
>>
>>
>> On Jun 16, 2016, at 8:53 AM, Dominik Wujastyk <wujastyk at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> ?Dear Don,
>>
>> This interests me a lot, and I'd be grateful to read what you might write
>> about it in future.  It's on my back-burner, but I've long wondered whether
>> Sanskritic narratives about jati and varna can be thought about in ways
>> similar to eighteenth and nineteenth century European narratives about
>> races and species.  Were people of different varnas formally considered to
>> be of different "species?"   It's a bit shocking to think in these terms,
>> but I've been wondering about it.  If you ever put flesh on these bones,
>> one way or another, or can point me to existing discussions on this, I'd be
>> really interested.
>>
>> Best,
>> Dominik
>>
>> --
>> Professor Dominik Wujastyk*
>> <http://ualberta.academia.edu/DominikWujastyk>
>> Singhmar Chair in Classical Indian Society and Polity
>> Department of History and Classics
>> <http://historyandclassics.ualberta.ca/>
>> University of Alberta, Canada
>>
>> On 16 June 2016 at 08:53, Donald R Davis <drdj at austin.utexas.edu> wrote:
>>
>>> Dear Colleagues,
>>>
>>> I would be grateful for additional references to an argument mentioned
>>> in Jayanta Bhatta?s *?gama?ambara* 4.143-4 (in Dezso?s edition in the
>>> Clay series).  The question is whether the *j?ti* of Brahmins, etc. is
>>> like the *j?ti* of cow-ness, etc. in being empirically observable or
>>> directly perceivable.  Jayanta refers to those who say that verbal/textual
>>> testimony alone (*?abdam?tre?a*) establishes the four-*var?a* system.
>>> This prefigures an argument made in Vij??ne?vara?s *Mit?k?ar?* (on Yaj
>>> 1.90) where the same distinction is drawn to refute an objection.
>>>
>>> I assumed Jayanta would have made a similar argument in his *
>>> Ny?yama?jar?*, but I have not been able to locate it (probably because
>>> I barely know the Ny?ya literature).  If anyone could point me toward other
>>> instances of this issue, whether in original sources or contemporary
>>> research, I?d appreciate it.
>>>
>>> Best,
>>>
>>> Don Davis
>>> Dept of Asian Studies
>>> University of Texas at Austin
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
>>> committee)
>>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options
>>> or unsubscribe)
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
>> committee)
>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
>> unsubscribe)
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
>> committee)
>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
>> unsubscribe)
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
>> committee)
>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
>> unsubscribe)
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Nagaraj Paturi
>
> Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.
>
> Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies
>
> FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of  Liberal Education,
>
> (Pune, Maharashtra, INDIA )
>
>
>
>



-- 
Nagaraj Paturi

Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.

Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies

FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of  Liberal Education,

(Pune, Maharashtra, INDIA )


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From rajam at earthlink.net  Thu Jun 16 19:18:34 2016
From: rajam at earthlink.net (rajam)
Date: Thu, 16 Jun 16 12:18:34 -0700
Subject: [INDOLOGY] J?ti as Caste in Ny?ya?
In-Reply-To: <CAJGj9eZ75D0BS4FX-=_2mZwFvXxdnwS6UqSuJmvtg_Rhzk_gug@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <3CA4E623-866E-46A9-984A-27E44C6A9650@earthlink.net>

Thanks to Professor Paturi for touching on the concept of ?gotva.? 

May I ask a naive question: What is the basic semantics of the word ?gotva?? I?m familiar with ?gotra.?

Thanks and regards,
rajam


> On Jun 16, 2016, at 11:51 AM, Nagaraj Paturi <nagarajpaturi at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Correction:
> I typed:
> 3. Those mentioned by Jayanta are not saying BraahmaNatva etc. are not like gotva etc. They are saying exactly the opposite. They are saying 'because braahmanatva etc. are not like gotva etc. the validity of what all Brahmins have in common can be verified / known only through a different source of knowledge than the one that can establish what all cows have in common. 
> 
> I wanted to say:
> 
> 3. Those mentioned by Jayanta are not saying BraahmaNatva etc. are like gotva etc. They are saying exactly the opposite. They are saying 'because braahmanatva etc. are not like gotva etc. the validity of what all Brahmins have in common can be verified / known only through a different source of knowledge than the one that can establish what all cows have in common.     
> 
> On Fri, Jun 17, 2016 at 12:19 AM, Nagaraj Paturi <nagarajpaturi at gmail.com <mailto:nagarajpaturi at gmail.com>> wrote:
> 1. While the discussion of Jayanta is mentioned to be on Varnas, the title of the post /thread has 'caste' in it. Since it is now well established that these two are two different categories /concepts, we might need to be careful about this distinction.
> 
> 2. For Nyaya, gotva is as much a jaati as  ghaTatva is jaati. ghaTatvajaati is as much empirically observable and directly perceivable as
> gotvajaati.   
> 
> 3. Those mentioned by Jayanta are not saying BraahmaNatva etc. are not like gotva etc. They are saying exactly the opposite. They are saying 'because braahmanatva etc. are not like gotva etc. the validity of what all Brahmins have in common can be verified / known only through a different source of knowledge than the one that can establish what all cows have in common.   
> 
> On Thu, Jun 16, 2016 at 10:10 PM, Johannes Bronkhorst <johannes.bronkhorst at unil.ch <mailto:johannes.bronkhorst at unil.ch>> wrote:
> Vincent Eltschinger?s ? Caste ? et philosophie bouddhique (Vienna 2000) seems relevant in this connection. An English version of this book is also available:
> 
> Caste and Buddhist Philosophy: Continuity of Some Buddhist Arguments Against the Realist Interpretation of Social Denominations (Motilal Banarsidass 2012)
> 
> Johannes
> 
>> On 16 juin 2016, at 18:37, rajam <rajam at earthlink.net <mailto:rajam at earthlink.net>> wrote:
>> 
>> Many thanks to the originator of this thread!
>> 
>> Right now, I just want to register the fact that I?m very much interested in this topic.
>> 
>> Last year (May 2015), I had a publication (in Tamil) about references to, or a lack there of, ?j?ti? and ?caste? (as we understand it today) in Old Tamil literature/grammar, also known as Sangam literature/grammar.
>> 
>> I don?t know how many of you are aware of the fact that the English word ?caste? has its origin in the Portuguese word ?casta,? which was first recorded in Arte da Lingua Malabar written by Fr. Henrique Henriques in the mid-16th century. 
>> 
>> If one wants to dig deep into the understanding of the terms such as ?j?ti? and ?caste? ? one has to have a minimal understanding of the origins of the Western contact with India, which happened in the early 16-th century through Portuguese arrival in South India.
>> 
>> Thanks and regards,
>> V.S.Rajam
>> 
>> 
>>> On Jun 16, 2016, at 8:53 AM, Dominik Wujastyk <wujastyk at gmail.com <mailto:wujastyk at gmail.com>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> ?Dear Don,
>>> 
>>> This interests me a lot, and I'd be grateful to read what you might write about it in future.  It's on my back-burner, but I've long wondered whether Sanskritic narratives about jati and varna can be thought about in ways similar to eighteenth and nineteenth century European narratives about races and species.  Were people of different varnas formally considered to be of different "species?"   It's a bit shocking to think in these terms, but I've been wondering about it.  If you ever put flesh on these bones, one way or another, or can point me to existing discussions on this, I'd be really interested.
>>> 
>>> Best,
>>> Dominik
>>> 
>>> --
>>> Professor Dominik Wujastyk* <http://ualberta.academia.edu/DominikWujastyk>
>>> Singhmar Chair in Classical Indian Society and Polity
>>> Department of History and Classics <http://historyandclassics.ualberta.ca/>
>>> University of Alberta, Canada
>>> 
>>> On 16 June 2016 at 08:53, Donald R Davis <drdj at austin.utexas.edu <mailto:drdj at austin.utexas.edu>> wrote:
>>> Dear Colleagues,
>>> 
>>> I would be grateful for additional references to an argument mentioned in Jayanta Bhatta?s ?gama?ambara 4.143-4 (in Dezso?s edition in the Clay series).  The question is whether the j?ti of Brahmins, etc. is like the j?ti of cow-ness, etc. in being empirically observable or directly perceivable.  Jayanta refers to those who say that verbal/textual testimony alone (?abdam?tre?a) establishes the four-var?a system.  This prefigures an argument made in Vij??ne?vara?s Mit?k?ar? (on Yaj 1.90) where the same distinction is drawn to refute an objection.
>>> 
>>> I assumed Jayanta would have made a similar argument in his Ny?yama?jar?, but I have not been able to locate it (probably because I barely know the Ny?ya literature).  If anyone could point me toward other instances of this issue, whether in original sources or contemporary research, I?d appreciate it.
>>> 
>>> Best,
>>> 
>>> Don Davis
>>> Dept of Asian Studies
>>> University of Texas at Austin
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info <mailto:INDOLOGY at list.indology.info>
>>> indology-owner at list.indology.info <mailto:indology-owner at list.indology.info> (messages to the list's managing committee)
>>> http://listinfo.indology.info <http://listinfo.indology.info/> (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe)
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info <mailto:INDOLOGY at list.indology.info>
>>> indology-owner at list.indology.info <mailto:indology-owner at list.indology.info> (messages to the list's managing committee)
>>> http://listinfo.indology.info <http://listinfo.indology.info/> (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe)
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info <mailto:INDOLOGY at list.indology.info>
>> indology-owner at list.indology.info <mailto:indology-owner at list.indology.info> (messages to the list's managing committee)
>> http://listinfo.indology.info <http://listinfo.indology.info/> (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe)
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info <mailto:INDOLOGY at list.indology.info>
> indology-owner at list.indology.info <mailto:indology-owner at list.indology.info> (messages to the list's managing committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info <http://listinfo.indology.info/> (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe)
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Nagaraj Paturi
>  
> Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.
>  
> Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies
>  
> FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of  Liberal Education,
>  
> (Pune, Maharashtra, INDIA )
>  
>  
>  
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Nagaraj Paturi
>  
> Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.
>  
> Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies
>  
> FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of  Liberal Education,
>  
> (Pune, Maharashtra, INDIA )
>  
>  
>  



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From jpo at austin.utexas.edu  Thu Jun 16 19:50:41 2016
From: jpo at austin.utexas.edu (Olivelle, J P)
Date: Thu, 16 Jun 16 19:50:41 +0000
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Jati as Caste in Nyaya?
In-Reply-To: <D3885B6B.11537%drdj@austin.utexas.edu>
Message-ID: <B104F165-E540-498C-B080-6E0ECC1288FC@austin.utexas.edu>

There is also a passage in Pata?jali about the physical characteristics of a Brahmin (tawny hair etc.). I cannot remember the reference, but perhaps Madhav Deshpande or someone can give the reference.



On Jun 16, 2016, at 1:41 PM, Donald R Davis <drdj at austin.utexas.edu<mailto:drdj at austin.utexas.edu>> wrote:

My thanks to Sam Wright who pointed me to the following:

Wilhelm Halbfass, ?Homo Hierarchicus: The Conceptualization of the Varna System in Indian Thought,? in Tradition and Reflecton. SUNY Press, 1991. [contains a long discussion of the jati as caste and as universal in the works of several authors, including Jayanta and, especially, Kumarila on pp. 363ff.]

Samuel Wright, "History in the Abstract: ?Brahman-ness? and the Discipline of Nyaya in Seventeenth-Century Varanasi.? Journal of Indian Philosophy, forthcoming.

The issue is discussed on page 204 in Sukla, S. N. (Ed.). (1971). Nya?yama?jari? of Jayanta Bhat?t?a (Part I). The Kashi Sanskrit Series 106, Nyaya Section No. 15. Varanasi: Chowkhamba Sanskrit Series Office.

Best, Don

From: INDOLOGY <indology-bounces at list.indology.info<mailto:indology-bounces at list.indology.info>> on behalf of Johannes Bronkhorst <johannes.bronkhorst at unil.ch<mailto:johannes.bronkhorst at unil.ch>>
Date: Thursday, June 16, 2016 at 11:40 AM
To: rajam <rajam at earthlink.net<mailto:rajam at earthlink.net>>
Cc: Dominik Wujastyk <wujastyk at gmail.com<mailto:wujastyk at gmail.com>>, "indology at list.indology.info<mailto:indology at list.indology.info>" <indology at list.indology.info<mailto:indology at list.indology.info>>
Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] J?ti as Caste in Ny?ya?

Vincent Eltschinger?s ? Caste ? et philosophie bouddhique (Vienna 2000) seems relevant in this connection. An English version of this book is also available:
Caste and Buddhist Philosophy: Continuity of Some Buddhist Arguments Against the Realist Interpretation of Social Denominations (Motilal Banarsidass 2012)
Johannes

On 16 juin 2016, at 18:37, rajam <rajam at earthlink.net<mailto:rajam at earthlink.net>> wrote:

Many thanks to the originator of this thread!

Right now, I just want to register the fact that I?m very much interested in this topic.

Last year (May 2015), I had a publication (in Tamil) about references to, or a lack there of, ?j?ti? and ?caste? (as we understand it today) in Old Tamil literature/grammar, also known as Sangam literature/grammar.

I don?t know how many of you are aware of the fact that the English word ?caste? has its origin in the Portuguese word ?casta,? which was first recorded in Arte da Lingua Malabar written by Fr. Henrique Henriques in the mid-16th century.

If one wants to dig deep into the understanding of the terms such as ?j?ti? and ?caste? ? one has to have a minimal understanding of the origins of the Western contact with India, which happened in the early 16-th century through Portuguese arrival in South India.

Thanks and regards,
V.S.Rajam


On Jun 16, 2016, at 8:53 AM, Dominik Wujastyk <wujastyk at gmail.com<mailto:wujastyk at gmail.com>> wrote:

?Dear Don,

This interests me a lot, and I'd be grateful to read what you might write about it in future.  It's on my back-burner, but I've long wondered whether Sanskritic narratives about jati and varna can be thought about in ways similar to eighteenth and nineteenth century European narratives about races and species.  Were people of different varnas formally considered to be of different "species?"   It's a bit shocking to think in these terms, but I've been wondering about it.  If you ever put flesh on these bones, one way or another, or can point me to existing discussions on this, I'd be really interested.

Best,
Dominik

--
Professor Dominik Wujastyk*<http://ualberta.academia.edu/DominikWujastyk>
Singhmar Chair in Classical Indian Society and Polity
Department of History and Classics<http://historyandclassics.ualberta.ca/>
University of Alberta, Canada

On 16 June 2016 at 08:53, Donald R Davis <drdj at austin.utexas.edu<mailto:drdj at austin.utexas.edu>> wrote:
Dear Colleagues,

I would be grateful for additional references to an argument mentioned in Jayanta Bhatta?s ?gama?ambara 4.143-4 (in Dezso?s edition in the Clay series).  The question is whether the j?ti of Brahmins, etc. is like the j?ti of cow-ness, etc. in being empirically observable or directly perceivable.  Jayanta refers to those who say that verbal/textual testimony alone (?abdam?tre?a) establishes the four-var?a system.  This prefigures an argument made in Vij??ne?vara?s Mit?k?ar? (on Yaj 1.90) where the same distinction is drawn to refute an objection.

I assumed Jayanta would have made a similar argument in his Ny?yama?jar?, but I have not been able to locate it (probably because I barely know the Ny?ya literature).  If anyone could point me toward other instances of this issue, whether in original sources or contemporary research, I?d appreciate it.

Best,

Don Davis
Dept of Asian Studies
University of Texas at Austin

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From jataber at unm.edu  Thu Jun 16 20:36:46 2016
From: jataber at unm.edu (John Taber)
Date: Thu, 16 Jun 16 20:36:46 +0000
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Jati as Caste in Nyaya?
In-Reply-To: <B104F165-E540-498C-B080-6E0ECC1288FC@austin.utexas.edu>
Message-ID: <A3771173-B7A8-4508-B1F0-D247535C5F0F@unm.edu>

See Mah?bh??ya 2.2.6 (Kielhorn, vol. 1, p. 411, lines 16ff).

Cheers,
John Taber

On Jun 16, 2016, at 1:50 PM, "Olivelle, J P" <jpo at austin.utexas.edu<mailto:jpo at austin.utexas.edu>>
 wrote:

There is also a passage in Pata?jali about the physical characteristics of a Brahmin (tawny hair etc.). I cannot remember the reference, but perhaps Madhav Deshpande or someone can give the reference.



On Jun 16, 2016, at 1:41 PM, Donald R Davis <drdj at austin.utexas.edu<mailto:drdj at austin.utexas.edu>> wrote:

My thanks to Sam Wright who pointed me to the following:

Wilhelm Halbfass, ?Homo Hierarchicus: The Conceptualization of the Varna System in Indian Thought,? in Tradition and Reflecton. SUNY Press, 1991. [contains a long discussion of the jati as caste and as universal in the works of several authors, including Jayanta and, especially, Kumarila on pp. 363ff.]

Samuel Wright, "History in the Abstract: ?Brahman-ness? and the Discipline of Nyaya in Seventeenth-Century Varanasi.? Journal of Indian Philosophy, forthcoming.

The issue is discussed on page 204 in Sukla, S. N. (Ed.). (1971). Nya?yama?jari? of Jayanta Bhat?t?a (Part I). The Kashi Sanskrit Series 106, Nyaya Section No. 15. Varanasi: Chowkhamba Sanskrit Series Office.

Best, Don

From: INDOLOGY <indology-bounces at list.indology.info<mailto:indology-bounces at list.indology.info>> on behalf of Johannes Bronkhorst <johannes.bronkhorst at unil.ch<mailto:johannes.bronkhorst at unil.ch>>
Date: Thursday, June 16, 2016 at 11:40 AM
To: rajam <rajam at earthlink.net<mailto:rajam at earthlink.net>>
Cc: Dominik Wujastyk <wujastyk at gmail.com<mailto:wujastyk at gmail.com>>, "indology at list.indology.info<mailto:indology at list.indology.info>" <indology at list.indology.info<mailto:indology at list.indology.info>>
Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] J?ti as Caste in Ny?ya?

Vincent Eltschinger?s ? Caste ? et philosophie bouddhique (Vienna 2000) seems relevant in this connection. An English version of this book is also available:
Caste and Buddhist Philosophy: Continuity of Some Buddhist Arguments Against the Realist Interpretation of Social Denominations (Motilal Banarsidass 2012)
Johannes

On 16 juin 2016, at 18:37, rajam <rajam at earthlink.net<mailto:rajam at earthlink.net>> wrote:

Many thanks to the originator of this thread!

Right now, I just want to register the fact that I?m very much interested in this topic.

Last year (May 2015), I had a publication (in Tamil) about references to, or a lack there of, ?j?ti? and ?caste? (as we understand it today) in Old Tamil literature/grammar, also known as Sangam literature/grammar.

I don?t know how many of you are aware of the fact that the English word ?caste? has its origin in the Portuguese word ?casta,? which was first recorded in Arte da Lingua Malabar written by Fr. Henrique Henriques in the mid-16th century.

If one wants to dig deep into the understanding of the terms such as ?j?ti? and ?caste? ? one has to have a minimal understanding of the origins of the Western contact with India, which happened in the early 16-th century through Portuguese arrival in South India.

Thanks and regards,
V.S.Rajam


On Jun 16, 2016, at 8:53 AM, Dominik Wujastyk <wujastyk at gmail.com<mailto:wujastyk at gmail.com>> wrote:

?Dear Don,

This interests me a lot, and I'd be grateful to read what you might write about it in future.  It's on my back-burner, but I've long wondered whether Sanskritic narratives about jati and varna can be thought about in ways similar to eighteenth and nineteenth century European narratives about races and species.  Were people of different varnas formally considered to be of different "species?"   It's a bit shocking to think in these terms, but I've been wondering about it.  If you ever put flesh on these bones, one way or another, or can point me to existing discussions on this, I'd be really interested.

Best,
Dominik

--
Professor Dominik Wujastyk*<http://ualberta.academia.edu/DominikWujastyk>
Singhmar Chair in Classical Indian Society and Polity
Department of History and Classics<http://historyandclassics.ualberta.ca/>
University of Alberta, Canada

On 16 June 2016 at 08:53, Donald R Davis <drdj at austin.utexas.edu<mailto:drdj at austin.utexas.edu>> wrote:
Dear Colleagues,

I would be grateful for additional references to an argument mentioned in Jayanta Bhatta?s ?gama?ambara 4.143-4 (in Dezso?s edition in the Clay series).  The question is whether the j?ti of Brahmins, etc. is like the j?ti of cow-ness, etc. in being empirically observable or directly perceivable.  Jayanta refers to those who say that verbal/textual testimony alone (?abdam?tre?a) establishes the four-var?a system.  This prefigures an argument made in Vij??ne?vara?s Mit?k?ar? (on Yaj 1.90) where the same distinction is drawn to refute an objection.

I assumed Jayanta would have made a similar argument in his Ny?yama?jar?, but I have not been able to locate it (probably because I barely know the Ny?ya literature).  If anyone could point me toward other instances of this issue, whether in original sources or contemporary research, I?d appreciate it.

Best,

Don Davis
Dept of Asian Studies
University of Texas at Austin

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From jpo at austin.utexas.edu  Thu Jun 16 21:24:38 2016
From: jpo at austin.utexas.edu (Olivelle, J P)
Date: Thu, 16 Jun 16 21:24:38 +0000
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Jati as Caste in Nyaya?
In-Reply-To: <A3771173-B7A8-4508-B1F0-D247535C5F0F@unm.edu>
Message-ID: <3ED216BC-53E5-4C0C-95E0-C824ECB78B7D@austin.utexas.edu>

Thanks, John.

Patrick



On Jun 16, 2016, at 3:36 PM, John Taber <jataber at unm.edu<mailto:jataber at unm.edu>> wrote:

See Mah?bh??ya 2.2.6 (Kielhorn, vol. 1, p. 411, lines 16ff).

Cheers,
John Taber

On Jun 16, 2016, at 1:50 PM, "Olivelle, J P" <jpo at austin.utexas.edu<mailto:jpo at austin.utexas.edu>>
 wrote:

There is also a passage in Pata?jali about the physical characteristics of a Brahmin (tawny hair etc.). I cannot remember the reference, but perhaps Madhav Deshpande or someone can give the reference.



On Jun 16, 2016, at 1:41 PM, Donald R Davis <drdj at austin.utexas.edu<mailto:drdj at austin.utexas.edu>> wrote:

My thanks to Sam Wright who pointed me to the following:

Wilhelm Halbfass, ?Homo Hierarchicus: The Conceptualization of the Varna System in Indian Thought,? in Tradition and Reflecton. SUNY Press, 1991. [contains a long discussion of the jati as caste and as universal in the works of several authors, including Jayanta and, especially, Kumarila on pp. 363ff.]

Samuel Wright, "History in the Abstract: ?Brahman-ness? and the Discipline of Nyaya in Seventeenth-Century Varanasi.? Journal of Indian Philosophy, forthcoming.

The issue is discussed on page 204 in Sukla, S. N. (Ed.). (1971). Nya?yama?jari? of Jayanta Bhat?t?a (Part I). The Kashi Sanskrit Series 106, Nyaya Section No. 15. Varanasi: Chowkhamba Sanskrit Series Office.

Best, Don

From: INDOLOGY <indology-bounces at list.indology.info<mailto:indology-bounces at list.indology.info>> on behalf of Johannes Bronkhorst <johannes.bronkhorst at unil.ch<mailto:johannes.bronkhorst at unil.ch>>
Date: Thursday, June 16, 2016 at 11:40 AM
To: rajam <rajam at earthlink.net<mailto:rajam at earthlink.net>>
Cc: Dominik Wujastyk <wujastyk at gmail.com<mailto:wujastyk at gmail.com>>, "indology at list.indology.info<mailto:indology at list.indology.info>" <indology at list.indology.info<mailto:indology at list.indology.info>>
Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] J?ti as Caste in Ny?ya?

Vincent Eltschinger?s ? Caste ? et philosophie bouddhique (Vienna 2000) seems relevant in this connection. An English version of this book is also available:
Caste and Buddhist Philosophy: Continuity of Some Buddhist Arguments Against the Realist Interpretation of Social Denominations (Motilal Banarsidass 2012)
Johannes

On 16 juin 2016, at 18:37, rajam <rajam at earthlink.net<mailto:rajam at earthlink.net>> wrote:

Many thanks to the originator of this thread!

Right now, I just want to register the fact that I?m very much interested in this topic.

Last year (May 2015), I had a publication (in Tamil) about references to, or a lack there of, ?j?ti? and ?caste? (as we understand it today) in Old Tamil literature/grammar, also known as Sangam literature/grammar.

I don?t know how many of you are aware of the fact that the English word ?caste? has its origin in the Portuguese word ?casta,? which was first recorded in Arte da Lingua Malabar written by Fr. Henrique Henriques in the mid-16th century.

If one wants to dig deep into the understanding of the terms such as ?j?ti? and ?caste? ? one has to have a minimal understanding of the origins of the Western contact with India, which happened in the early 16-th century through Portuguese arrival in South India.

Thanks and regards,
V.S.Rajam


On Jun 16, 2016, at 8:53 AM, Dominik Wujastyk <wujastyk at gmail.com<mailto:wujastyk at gmail.com>> wrote:

?Dear Don,

This interests me a lot, and I'd be grateful to read what you might write about it in future.  It's on my back-burner, but I've long wondered whether Sanskritic narratives about jati and varna can be thought about in ways similar to eighteenth and nineteenth century European narratives about races and species.  Were people of different varnas formally considered to be of different "species?"   It's a bit shocking to think in these terms, but I've been wondering about it.  If you ever put flesh on these bones, one way or another, or can point me to existing discussions on this, I'd be really interested.

Best,
Dominik

--
Professor Dominik Wujastyk*<http://ualberta.academia.edu/DominikWujastyk>
Singhmar Chair in Classical Indian Society and Polity
Department of History and Classics<http://historyandclassics.ualberta.ca/>
University of Alberta, Canada

On 16 June 2016 at 08:53, Donald R Davis <drdj at austin.utexas.edu<mailto:drdj at austin.utexas.edu>> wrote:
Dear Colleagues,

I would be grateful for additional references to an argument mentioned in Jayanta Bhatta?s ?gama?ambara 4.143-4 (in Dezso?s edition in the Clay series).  The question is whether the j?ti of Brahmins, etc. is like the j?ti of cow-ness, etc. in being empirically observable or directly perceivable.  Jayanta refers to those who say that verbal/textual testimony alone (?abdam?tre?a) establishes the four-var?a system.  This prefigures an argument made in Vij??ne?vara?s Mit?k?ar? (on Yaj 1.90) where the same distinction is drawn to refute an objection.

I assumed Jayanta would have made a similar argument in his Ny?yama?jar?, but I have not been able to locate it (probably because I barely know the Ny?ya literature).  If anyone could point me toward other instances of this issue, whether in original sources or contemporary research, I?d appreciate it.

Best,

Don Davis
Dept of Asian Studies
University of Texas at Austin

_______________________________________________
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From ashok.aklujkar at gmail.com  Thu Jun 16 22:42:40 2016
From: ashok.aklujkar at gmail.com (Ashok Aklujkar)
Date: Thu, 16 Jun 16 15:42:40 -0700
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Jati as Caste in Nyaya?
In-Reply-To: <A3771173-B7A8-4508-B1F0-D247535C5F0F@unm.edu>
Message-ID: <C61E1481-45BF-43A6-98DF-7B3FA796E5DD@gmail.com>

John Taber wrote: >See Mah?bh??ya 2.2.6 (Kielhorn, vol. 1, p. 411, lines 16ff).<

The passage also occurs in Mah?bh??ya 5.1.115. 

I have used it as one piece of evidence among several others to conclude that Pata?jali was a Kashmirian in section 2.6 of my article ?Pata?jali: a Kashmirian? published in  2008. Linguistic Traditions of Kashmir. Co-edited by me with Mr. Mrinal Kaul. New Delhi: D.K. Printworld. Pp. XXIV + 609.

The discussion in the Mah?bh??ya is semantic or linguistic. It is a statement on what the users of Skt understand when the word br?hma?a is uttered. It is not an attempt to decide if br?hma?atva is a j?ti in the same way as gotva. (Extend this to ?k?atriyatva : a?vatva? etc.; the grammarians? notion of j?ti or universal is not the same as that of the Vai?e?ikas and Naiy?yikas anyway; it is thoroughly ?abd?dhi??hita or semantic.)

For those who are interested in Pata?jali, the grammarian: The article mentioned above is preceded in the same volume by two other articles of mine: (a) ?Pata~jali?s Mah?bh??ya as a key to happy Kashmir.? (b) "Gonard?ya, Go?ik?-putra, Patanjali and Gonand?ya."

a.a.


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From nagarajpaturi at gmail.com  Fri Jun 17 04:32:40 2016
From: nagarajpaturi at gmail.com (Nagaraj Paturi)
Date: Fri, 17 Jun 16 10:02:40 +0530
Subject: [INDOLOGY] J?ti as Caste in Ny?ya?
In-Reply-To: <3CA4E623-866E-46A9-984A-27E44C6A9650@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <CAJGj9eaSEVvJjYDYJ+X5RBtB8P1VsDP94HNuvKn_1Xr7BACvaA@mail.gmail.com>

The concept of gotva was brought in by the 'originator of the thread' Prof.
Davis himself, not by me. He used the English translation of it,
'cow-ness'.

The point I was making was that for naiyaayikas , 'cow-ness' is similar
to 'pot-ness'. We can extend this and use words  like pencilness and
carness too.

 If  braamhaNatva (brahminness)  is taken only as similar to cowness, it
leads to the ideas such as 'the varnas have been viewed as similar to
biological species'. But in fact, brahminness is viewed as similar to
carness and pencilness.

If one resorts to sources of knowledge other than empirical observation or
direct perception to substantiate the '-ness' of a certain group of
entities, it shows that one has an understanding that commonality of that
group of entities is not an empirically verifiable or directly perceivable
one.

If one lists empirically verifiable or directly perceivable features to
identify the common identity of a group of entities, then one need not and
does not usually resort to any other source of knowledge as the Vedas for
that purpose.

Prof. Aklujkar pointed out the difference between jaati of grammarians
which is the commonality in the meanings of words denoting entities or the
meaning of the word denoting the group of entities and jaati of the
naiyaayikas which is the commonality in the entities.


On Fri, Jun 17, 2016 at 12:48 AM, rajam <rajam at earthlink.net> wrote:

> Thanks to Professor Paturi for touching on the concept of ?gotva.?
>
> May I ask a naive question: What is the basic semantics of the
> word ?gotva?? I?m familiar with ?gotra.?
>
> Thanks and regards,
> rajam
>
>
> On Jun 16, 2016, at 11:51 AM, Nagaraj Paturi <nagarajpaturi at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> Correction:
> I typed:
> 3. Those mentioned by Jayanta are not saying BraahmaNatva etc. are *not
> like *gotva etc. They are saying exactly the opposite. They are saying
> 'because braahmanatva etc. are not like gotva etc. the validity of what all
> Brahmins have in common can be verified / known only through a different
> source of knowledge than the one that can establish what all cows have in
> common.
>
> I wanted to say:
>
> 3. Those mentioned by Jayanta are not saying BraahmaNatva etc. are *like
> gotva *etc. They are saying exactly the opposite. They are saying
> 'because braahmanatva etc. are not like gotva etc. the validity of what all
> Brahmins have in common can be verified / known only through a different
> source of knowledge than the one that can establish what all cows have in
> common.
>
> On Fri, Jun 17, 2016 at 12:19 AM, Nagaraj Paturi <nagarajpaturi at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> 1. While the discussion of Jayanta is mentioned to be on Varnas, the
>> title of the post /thread has 'caste' in it. Since it is now well
>> established that these two are two different categories /concepts, we
>> might need to be careful about this distinction.
>>
>> 2. For Nyaya, gotva is as much a jaati as  ghaTatva is jaati.
>> ghaTatvajaati is as much empirically observable and directly perceivable as
>> gotvajaati.
>>
>> 3. Those mentioned by Jayanta are not saying BraahmaNatva etc. are not
>> like gotva etc. They are saying exactly the opposite. They are saying
>> 'because braahmanatva etc. are not like gotva etc. the validity of what all
>> Brahmins have in common can be verified / known only through a different
>> source of knowledge than the one that can establish what all cows have in
>> common.
>>
>> On Thu, Jun 16, 2016 at 10:10 PM, Johannes Bronkhorst <
>> johannes.bronkhorst at unil.ch> wrote:
>>
>>> Vincent Eltschinger?s *? Caste ? et philosophie bouddhique* (Vienna
>>> 2000) seems relevant in this connection. An English version of this book is
>>> also available:
>>>
>>> *Caste and Buddhist Philosophy: Continuity of Some Buddhist Arguments
>>> Against the Realist Interpretation of Social Denominations* (Motilal
>>> Banarsidass 2012)
>>> Johannes
>>>
>>> On 16 juin 2016, at 18:37, rajam <rajam at earthlink.net> wrote:
>>>
>>> Many thanks to the originator of this thread!
>>>
>>> Right now, I just want to register the fact that I?m very much
>>> interested in this topic.
>>>
>>> Last year (May 2015), I had a publication (in Tamil) about references
>>> to, or a lack there of, ?j?ti? and ?caste? (as we understand it today) in
>>> Old Tamil literature/grammar, also known as Sangam literature/grammar.
>>>
>>> I don?t know how many of you are aware of the fact that the English
>>> word ?caste? has its origin in the Portuguese word ?casta,? which was first
>>> recorded in *Arte da Lingua Malabar* written by Fr. Henrique Henriques
>>> in the mid-16th century.
>>>
>>> If one wants to dig deep into the understanding of the terms such as
>>> ?j?ti? and ?caste? ? one has to have a minimal understanding of the origins
>>> of the Western contact with India, which happened in the early 16-th
>>> century through Portuguese arrival in South India.
>>>
>>> Thanks and regards,
>>> V.S.Rajam
>>>
>>>
>>> On Jun 16, 2016, at 8:53 AM, Dominik Wujastyk <wujastyk at gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> ?Dear Don,
>>>
>>> This interests me a lot, and I'd be grateful to read what you might
>>> write about it in future.  It's on my back-burner, but I've long wondered
>>> whether Sanskritic narratives about jati and varna can be thought about in
>>> ways similar to eighteenth and nineteenth century European narratives about
>>> races and species.  Were people of different varnas formally considered to
>>> be of different "species?"   It's a bit shocking to think in these terms,
>>> but I've been wondering about it.  If you ever put flesh on these bones,
>>> one way or another, or can point me to existing discussions on this, I'd be
>>> really interested.
>>>
>>> Best,
>>> Dominik
>>>
>>> --
>>> Professor Dominik Wujastyk*
>>> <http://ualberta.academia.edu/DominikWujastyk>
>>> Singhmar Chair in Classical Indian Society and Polity
>>> Department of History and Classics
>>> <http://historyandclassics.ualberta.ca/>
>>> University of Alberta, Canada
>>>
>>> On 16 June 2016 at 08:53, Donald R Davis <drdj at austin.utexas.edu> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Dear Colleagues,
>>>>
>>>> I would be grateful for additional references to an argument mentioned
>>>> in Jayanta Bhatta?s *?gama?ambara* 4.143-4 (in Dezso?s edition in the
>>>> Clay series).  The question is whether the *j?ti* of Brahmins, etc. is
>>>> like the *j?ti* of cow-ness, etc. in being empirically observable or
>>>> directly perceivable.  Jayanta refers to those who say that verbal/textual
>>>> testimony alone (*?abdam?tre?a*) establishes the four-*var?a* system.
>>>> This prefigures an argument made in Vij??ne?vara?s *Mit?k?ar?* (on Yaj
>>>> 1.90) where the same distinction is drawn to refute an objection.
>>>>
>>>> I assumed Jayanta would have made a similar argument in his *
>>>> Ny?yama?jar?*, but I have not been able to locate it (probably because
>>>> I barely know the Ny?ya literature).  If anyone could point me toward other
>>>> instances of this issue, whether in original sources or contemporary
>>>> research, I?d appreciate it.
>>>>
>>>> Best,
>>>>
>>>> Don Davis
>>>> Dept of Asian Studies
>>>> University of Texas at Austin
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>>>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>>>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
>>>> committee)
>>>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options
>>>> or unsubscribe)
>>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
>>> committee)
>>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options
>>> or unsubscribe)
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
>>> committee)
>>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options
>>> or unsubscribe)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
>>> committee)
>>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options
>>> or unsubscribe)
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Nagaraj Paturi
>>
>> Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.
>>
>> Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies
>>
>> FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of  Liberal Education,
>>
>> (Pune, Maharashtra, INDIA )
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Nagaraj Paturi
>
> Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.
>
> Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies
>
> FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of  Liberal Education,
>
> (Pune, Maharashtra, INDIA )
>
>
>
>
>
>


-- 
Nagaraj Paturi

Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.

Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies

FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of  Liberal Education,

(Pune, Maharashtra, INDIA )


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From mmdesh at umich.edu  Fri Jun 17 07:02:25 2016
From: mmdesh at umich.edu (Madhav Deshpande)
Date: Fri, 17 Jun 16 12:32:25 +0530
Subject: [INDOLOGY] My verse on morning in Pune
Message-ID: <CAB3-dzfJu==QHrekpcCSLfkw4doeKF0t5bjig==1H1Z1v_XOqw@mail.gmail.com>

My comic Sanskrit verse about morning in Pune:

??????? ?????????????? ??????, ????????? ????? ????: ?
??????????????????? ?????? ??????? ??????: ???????: ??
????? ????????????????? ????? ????????: ???? ???? ?
?????????? ???????????? ?????:, ??????? ?????? ???? ??

"The learned dogs start barking, and the cuckoo birds shout in the ears. On
a good day, with the arrival of water in the taps, women rush with buckets.
Kids, not eager to go to school are sleepy in their homes, while the young
[= IT workers] get going for their work. Thus wakes up the Pune city."

Don't take it seriously! It is a joke!

-- 
Madhav M. Deshpande
Professor of Sanskrit and Linguistics
Department of Asian Languages and Cultures
202 South Thayer Street, Suite 6111
The University of Michigan
Ann Arbor, MI 48104-1608, USA


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From heinzwerner.wessler at lingfil.uu.se  Fri Jun 17 11:57:53 2016
From: heinzwerner.wessler at lingfil.uu.se (Heinz Werner Wessler)
Date: Fri, 17 Jun 16 11:57:53 +0000
Subject: [INDOLOGY] PhD position Indology Uppsala (Sweden)
Message-ID: <0BF7650FDFD45D458872C167BE4C3C566D5A98CA@COLUMBA00.user.uu.se>

Please feel free to distribute this mail to anybody who might be interested! Thanks, Heinz Werner Wessler
PhD position in Indology

Published: 2016-06-15

Uppsala University is an international research university focused on the development of science and education. Our most important assets are all the individuals who with their curiosity and their dedication make Uppsala University one of Sweden?s most exciting work places. Uppsala University has 40,000 students, 7,000 employees and a turnover of SEK 6,5 billion.

Research and teaching at the Department of linguistics and philology covers approx. twenty different languages and linguistic subjects as well as computational linguistics. These include many of the important languages and cultures in the Middle East, to which can be added Hindi, Swahili, Chinese, Ancient Greek and Latin. Comparative Indo-European linguistics and general linguistics are also part of the department.

Doctoral studies extend over a 4-year period during which the PhD-student will receive a salary as an employee of the department. Doctoral students are expected to engage in full-time study and research, and contribute to and participate in the department?s activities. Teaching and/or administrative tasks may be involved up to a maximum of 20%.

The dissertation project should fall within the area of modern Southasian languages or literatures, with preference for Hindi.

Qualifications: Master in Indology or equivalent qualifications.

How to apply: Applications should include a letter in which the applicant describes herself/himself and the research interest. The application should contain an outline of the planned project, CV, copies of diplomas and certificates, thesis and other documents that the applicant wishes to submit.

The application may be written in English or Swedish.

More information about the PhD programme at the department can be found at the following website: http://www.sprakvet.uu.se/Forskning/Forskarutbildning.

For a general description of PhD student admissions in Sweden, see Act of higher education (H?gskolef?rordningen) chap.7 ??34-36.

Rules of employment of graduate students can be found in the Act of higher education (H?gskolef?rordningen) chap.5 ??1-7.

Rules for doctoral education is regulated in the Act of higher education (H?gskolef?rordningen) chap.6 kap ??26-36.

Local admission rules can be found at http://regler.uu.se<http://regler.uu.se/> and athttp://www.sprakvet.uu.se/Forskning/Forskarutbildning.

Uppsala University aims for gender balance and diversity in all activities in order to achieve a higher quality at all levels of the organization. We therefore welcome applicants of any gender and with different birth background, functionality and life experience.

Salary: Local salary regulations apply.

Starting: January 1 2017 or earlier

Working hours: 100%

For more information, please contact:
Professor Heinz Werner Wessler, (heinzwerner.wessler at lingfil.uu.se), tel 018- 471 7015
Director of graduate studies, Professor Christer Henriks?n (Christer.Henriken at lingfil.uu.se), phone + 46  (0)18 471 6845
Senior faculty administrator Lars Hagborg (Lars.Hagborg at uadm.uu.se), phone +46 (0)18 471 1907

You are welcome to submit your application no later than September 15 2016, UFV-PA 2016/1852.

We decline offers of recruitment and advertising help. We only accept the application the way described in the advertisement.

Placement: Department of Linguistics and Philology

Type of employment: Full time , Temporary position longer than 6 months

Pay: Fixed pay

Number of positions: 1

Working hours: 100 %

Town: Uppsala

County: Uppsala l?n

Country: Sweden

Union representative: Marie Ols, TCO/ST 018-471 2459
Per Sundman, Saco-r?det 018-471 1485
Stefan Djurstr?m, Seko 018-471 3315

Number of reference: UFV-PA 2016/1852

Last application date: 2016-09-15

Login and apply<https://uu.mynetworkglobal.com/en/what:login/jobID:106775>




PhD position in indology in Uppsala:  www.uu.se/en/about-uu/join-us/details/?positionID=1006775

--

Heinz Werner Wessler

Institute for Linguistics and Philology

Box 635

SE-75126 Uppsala

+46-18-4717015

http://katalog.uu.se/empinfo/?id=N9-852

www.lingfil.uu.se<http://www.lingfil.uu.se>



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From christophe.vielle at uclouvain.be  Fri Jun 17 13:08:36 2016
From: christophe.vielle at uclouvain.be (Christophe Vielle)
Date: Fri, 17 Jun 16 15:08:36 +0200
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Jati as Caste in Nyaya?
In-Reply-To: <D3885B6B.11537%drdj@austin.utexas.edu>
Message-ID: <184757C3-AE57-4D05-A5C7-A5575EC1857F@uclouvain.be>

Dear Don,

The problem is also epistemologically discussed by the Prabhakara-mimamsaka ??likan?tha in the Prakara?apa?cik?, prakara?a 4 : J?tinir?aya

 See short abstract of this chapter in

Potter K. H. ?d. 2014, Philosophy of P?rva-M?m??s?, Delhi, Encyclopedia of Indian Philosophies 16, pp. 308-309 (relying on Verpoorten and Pandurangi)

The 1961 Benares edition of the PP is available here :

http://www.new.dli.ernet.in/handle/2015/383225

(better scan than :

http://www.dli.ernet.in/handle/2015/541509

http://www.dli.ernet.in/handle/2015/311115  )

Here below an extract of the Sansknet input on GRETIL

http://gretil.sub.uni-goettingen.de/gretil/1_sanskr/6_sastra/3_phil/mimamsa/prakp04u.htm 

(?)

tad idam apahastitam, yad ?hu? 

"?abdatvam eva tattadas?dh?ra??bhivya?jakadhvaninibandhanatay? n?n?var?ape?a vi?ay?bhavat tasya tasy?rthasy?vagam?ya kalpata" iti /

br?hma?atv?dij?tinir?kara?am /

anayaiva ca di?? br?hma?atv?dij?tir api niv?rit? /

nahi n?n?str?puru?avyakti?u puru?atv?darth?ntarabh?tamekam?k?ram?tmas?tkurv?nt? matir?virbhavati /

nahi k?atriy?dibhyo vy?vartam?na? sakalabr?hma?e?vanuvartam?namekam?k?ramaticiramanusandadhato 'pi budhyante /

yadapy?hu?- 79yadyapy?p?tasa?j?tay? dhiy? br?hma?ya? n?vas?yate, tath?pi br?hma?abh?tam?t?pit?sambandh?nusandh?naprabhav?y?? banddhau taccak?st?ti /

tadapi ca svam?nasavisa?v?di /

anusandadh?no 'pi m?t?pit?sambandha? ko j?tvekam?k?ramavaboddhu? prabhavati /

yaccopadar?itam---yath? vil?nam?jya? tail?davyatiricyam?na? gandhagraha?asahak?ri?? cak?u?aiva bhinnamavagamtaya---iti /

tadapi na sundaram /

nahi tad?n?? c?k?u?asya sa?vedanasya vi?ay?tireka?, kintvanum?nameva tatra sarpi?a? /

yastu nipu?adar?o s?k?mamapi r?pam?k?itu? k?ama?, sa cak?u?aiv?jyaj?timapi pratyeti, na gandhagraha?amapek?ate /

nanveva? bahvavah?nam, ki?nibandhano hi tad?n?m?havan?y?dis?dhyakarmasu ke???cidadhik?ro n?nye??m; ki?nibandhan? ca br?hma?a?abdasya prav?ttivyavasth? iti /

atrocyate /

an?dau sa?s?re janyajanakabh?vena vyavasthit?st?vat k??cideva str?puru?asantataya? santi, t?s?manyonyavyatikare?a j?t?? str?pu?savyaktayo br?hma?a?abdav?cy?? /

anidamprathamatay? ca santate? sarve??? tatsantatipatitatv?t siddh? br?hma?a?abdav?cyat? /

tena santativi?e?aprabhavatvameva br?hma?a?abdaprav?tt?vup?dhi? /

tatprabhav?n?meva karmasvadhik?ra iti na ki?cidavah?nam /

ke punaste santativi?e??? /

na te pariga?ayya nirde??u? ?akyante, kintu lokata eva prasiddh?? pratyetavy?? /

tath? ca tajjanyatve 'vagate br?hma?a?abda? prayu?jate lok?? /

(?)

Best wishes,

Christophe

Le 16 juin 2016 ? 20:41, Donald R Davis <drdj at austin.utexas.edu> a ?crit :

> My thanks to Sam Wright who pointed me to the following:
> 
> Wilhelm Halbfass, ?Homo Hierarchicus: The Conceptualization of the Varna System in Indian Thought,? in Tradition and Reflecton. SUNY Press, 1991. [contains a long discussion of the jati as caste and as universal in the works of several authors, including Jayanta and, especially, Kumarila on pp. 363ff.]
> 
> Samuel Wright, "History in the Abstract: ?Brahman-ness? and the Discipline of Nyaya in Seventeenth-Century Varanasi.? Journal of Indian Philosophy, forthcoming. 
> 
> The issue is discussed on page 204 in Sukla, S. N. (Ed.). (1971). Nya?yama?jari? of Jayanta Bhat?t?a (Part I). The Kashi Sanskrit Series 106, Nyaya Section No. 15. Varanasi: Chowkhamba Sanskrit Series Office.
> 
> Best, Don
> 
> From: INDOLOGY <indology-bounces at list.indology.info> on behalf of Johannes Bronkhorst <johannes.bronkhorst at unil.ch>
> Date: Thursday, June 16, 2016 at 11:40 AM
> To: rajam <rajam at earthlink.net>
> Cc: Dominik Wujastyk <wujastyk at gmail.com>, "indology at list.indology.info" <indology at list.indology.info>
> Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] J?ti as Caste in Ny?ya?
> 
> Vincent Eltschinger?s ? Caste ? et philosophie bouddhique (Vienna 2000) seems relevant in this connection. An English version of this book is also available:
> 
> Caste and Buddhist Philosophy: Continuity of Some Buddhist Arguments Against the Realist Interpretation of Social Denominations (Motilal Banarsidass 2012)
> 
> Johannes
> 
>> On 16 juin 2016, at 18:37, rajam <rajam at earthlink.net> wrote:
>> 
>> Many thanks to the originator of this thread!
>> 
>> Right now, I just want to register the fact that I?m very much interested in this topic.
>> 
>> Last year (May 2015), I had a publication (in Tamil) about references to, or a lack there of, ?j?ti? and ?caste? (as we understand it today) in Old Tamil literature/grammar, also known as Sangam literature/grammar.
>> 
>> I don?t know how many of you are aware of the fact that the English word ?caste? has its origin in the Portuguese word ?casta,? which was first recorded in Arte da Lingua Malabar written by Fr. Henrique Henriques in the mid-16th century. 
>> 
>> If one wants to dig deep into the understanding of the terms such as ?j?ti? and ?caste? ? one has to have a minimal understanding of the origins of the Western contact with India, which happened in the early 16-th century through Portuguese arrival in South India.
>> 
>> Thanks and regards,
>> V.S.Rajam
>> 
>> 
>>> On Jun 16, 2016, at 8:53 AM, Dominik Wujastyk <wujastyk at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> ?Dear Don,
>>> 
>>> This interests me a lot, and I'd be grateful to read what you might write about it in future.  It's on my back-burner, but I've long wondered whether Sanskritic narratives about jati and varna can be thought about in ways similar to eighteenth and nineteenth century European narratives about races and species.  Were people of different varnas formally considered to be of different "species?"   It's a bit shocking to think in these terms, but I've been wondering about it.  If you ever put flesh on these bones, one way or another, or can point me to existing discussions on this, I'd be really interested.
>>> 
>>> Best,
>>> Dominik
>>> 
>>> --
>>> Professor Dominik Wujastyk*
>>> Singhmar Chair in Classical Indian Society and Polity
>>> Department of History and Classics
>>> University of Alberta, Canada
>>> 
>>> On 16 June 2016 at 08:53, Donald R Davis <drdj at austin.utexas.edu> wrote:
>>> Dear Colleagues,
>>> 
>>> I would be grateful for additional references to an argument mentioned in Jayanta Bhatta?s ?gama?ambara 4.143-4 (in Dezso?s edition in the Clay series).  The question is whether the j?ti of Brahmins, etc. is like the j?ti of cow-ness, etc. in being empirically observable or directly perceivable.  Jayanta refers to those who say that verbal/textual testimony alone (?abdam?tre?a) establishes the four-var?a system.  This prefigures an argument made in Vij??ne?vara?s Mit?k?ar? (on Yaj 1.90) where the same distinction is drawn to refute an objection.
>>> 
>>> I assumed Jayanta would have made a similar argument in his Ny?yama?jar?, but I have not been able to locate it (probably because I barely know the Ny?ya literature).  If anyone could point me toward other instances of this issue, whether in original sources or contemporary research, I?d appreciate it.
>>> 
>>> Best,
>>> 
>>> Don Davis
>>> Dept of Asian Studies
>>> University of Texas at Austin
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee)
>>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe)
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee)
>>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe)
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee)
>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe)
> 
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe)

???????????????????
Christophe Vielle
Louvain-la-Neuve



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From dharmaprof108 at yahoo.com  Fri Jun 17 15:25:29 2016
From: dharmaprof108 at yahoo.com (Jeffery Long)
Date: Fri, 17 Jun 16 15:25:29 +0000
Subject: [INDOLOGY] J?ti as Caste in Ny?ya?
In-Reply-To: <CAJGj9eaSEVvJjYDYJ+X5RBtB8P1VsDP94HNuvKn_1Xr7BACvaA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1952631659.4953583.1466177129128.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>

Dear Rajam,
"Gotva" is "cow-ness," the nature of a cow, or the universal "cow."
All the best,Jeffery Long?Dr. Jeffery D. Long
Professor of Religion and Asian Studies
Elizabethtown CollegeElizabethtown, PA
https://etown.academia.edu/JefferyLong
Series Editor,?Explorations in Indic Traditions: Theological, Ethical, and PhilosophicalLexington Books
Consulting Editor,?Sutra Journalhttp://www.sutrajournal.com

"One who makes a habit of prayer and meditation will easily overcome all difficulties and remain calm and unruffled in the midst of the trials of life." ?(Holy Mother Sarada Devi)
 

    On Friday, June 17, 2016 12:34 AM, Nagaraj Paturi <nagarajpaturi at gmail.com> wrote:
 

 The concept of gotva was brought in by the 'originator of the thread' Prof. Davis himself, not by me. He used the English translation of it, 'cow-ness'.?
The point I was making was that for naiyaayikas , 'cow-ness' is?similar to?'pot-ness'. We can extend this and use words? like pencilness and carness too.
?If? braamhaNatva (brahminness) ?is taken only as similar to cowness, it leads to the ideas such as 'the varnas have been viewed as similar to biological species'. But in fact, brahminness is viewed as similar to carness and pencilness. 
If one resorts to sources of knowledge?other than empirical observation or direct perception to substantiate the '-ness' of a certain group of entities, it shows that one has an understanding that commonality of that group of entities is not an empirically verifiable or directly?perceivable one. 
If one lists empirically verifiable or directly?perceivable?features to identify the common identity of a group of entities, then?one need not and does not usually resort to any other source of knowledge as the Vedas for that purpose. 
Prof. Aklujkar pointed out the difference between jaati of grammarians which is the commonality in the meanings of?words denoting entities or the meaning of the word denoting the group of entities and jaati of the naiyaayikas which is the commonality in the entities.??
On Fri, Jun 17, 2016 at 12:48 AM, rajam <rajam at earthlink.net> wrote:

Thanks to Professor Paturi for touching on the concept of ?gotva.??
May I ask a naive question: What is the basic semantics of the word??gotva?? I?m familiar with??gotra.?
Thanks and regards,rajam


On Jun 16, 2016, at 11:51 AM, Nagaraj Paturi <nagarajpaturi at gmail.com> wrote:
Correction:I typed:3.?Those mentioned by Jayanta are?not?saying BraahmaNatva etc. are not like gotva etc. They are saying exactly the opposite. They are saying 'because braahmanatva etc. are not like gotva etc. the validity of?what all Brahmins have in common can be verified / known only through?a different source of knowledge than the one that can establish what all cows have in common.?
I wanted to say: 
3.?Those mentioned by Jayanta are?not?saying BraahmaNatva etc. are like gotva etc. They are saying exactly the opposite. They are saying 'because braahmanatva etc. are not like gotva etc. the validity of?what all Brahmins have in common can be verified / known only through?a different source of knowledge than the one that can establish what all cows have in common.?????
On Fri, Jun 17, 2016 at 12:19 AM, Nagaraj Paturi <nagarajpaturi at gmail.com> wrote:

1. While the discussion of Jayanta is mentioned to be on Varnas, the title of the post /thread has 'caste' in it. Since it is now well established that these two are two different categories /concepts, we might?need to be careful about this distinction. 
2. For Nyaya, gotva is as much a jaati?as ?ghaTatva is jaati. ghaTatvajaati is?as much?empirically?observable and directly perceivable asgotvajaati. ??
3.?Those mentioned by Jayanta are?not?saying BraahmaNatva etc. are not like gotva etc. They are saying exactly the opposite. They are saying 'because braahmanatva etc. are not like gotva etc. the validity of?what all Brahmins have in common can be verified / known only through?a different source of knowledge than the one that can establish what all cows have in common. ??
On Thu, Jun 16, 2016 at 10:10 PM, Johannes Bronkhorst <johannes.bronkhorst at unil.ch> wrote:

Vincent Eltschinger?s??Caste?? et philosophie bouddhique (Vienna 2000) seems relevant in this connection. An English version of this book is also available:Caste and Buddhist Philosophy: Continuity of Some Buddhist Arguments Against the Realist Interpretation of Social Denominations (Motilal Banarsidass 2012)Johannes

On 16 juin 2016, at 18:37, rajam <rajam at earthlink.net> wrote:
Many thanks to the originator of this thread!
Right now, I just want to register the fact that I?m very much interested in this topic.
Last year (May 2015), I had a publication (in Tamil) about references to, or a lack there of,??j?ti? and??caste? (as we understand it today) in Old Tamil literature/grammar, also known as Sangam literature/grammar.
I don?t know how many of you are aware of the fact that the English word??caste? has its origin in the Portuguese word??casta,? which was first recorded inArte da Lingua Malabar?written by Fr. Henrique Henriques in the mid-16th century.?
If one wants to dig deep into the understanding of the terms such as ?j?ti? and ?caste????one has to have a minimal understanding of the origins of the Western contact with India, which happened in the early 16-th century through Portuguese?arrival in South India.
Thanks and regards,V.S.Rajam


On Jun 16, 2016, at 8:53 AM, Dominik Wujastyk <wujastyk at gmail.com> wrote:
?Dear Don,
This interests me a lot, and I'd be grateful to read what you might write about it in future.? It's on my back-burner, but I've long wondered whether Sanskritic narratives about jati and varna can be thought about in ways similar to eighteenth and nineteenth century European narratives about races and species.? Were people of different varnas formally considered to be of different "species?" ? It's a bit shocking to think in these terms, but I've been wondering about it.? If you ever put flesh on these bones, one way or another, or can point me to existing discussions on this, I'd be really interested.
Best,Dominik
--
Professor Dominik Wujastyk*
Singhmar Chair in Classical Indian Society and Polity
Department of History and Classics
University of Alberta, Canada

On 16 June 2016 at 08:53, Donald R Davis <drdj at austin.utexas.edu> wrote:

Dear Colleagues,
I would be grateful for additional references to an argument mentioned in Jayanta Bhatta?s?gama?ambara 4.143-4 (in Dezso?s edition in the Clay series).? The question is whether thej?ti of Brahmins, etc.?is like the j?ti of cow-ness, etc.?in being empirically observable or directly perceivable.? Jayanta refers to those who say that verbal/textual testimony alone (?abdam?tre?a) establishes the four-var?a system.? This prefigures an argument made in Vij??ne?vara?sMit?k?ar? (on Yaj 1.90) where the same distinction is drawn to refute an objection.
I assumed Jayanta would have made a similar argument in his Ny?yama?jar?, but I have not been able to locate it (probably because I barely know the Ny?ya literature).? If anyone could point me toward other instances of this issue, whether in original sources or contemporary research, I?d appreciate it.
Best,
Don DavisDept of Asian StudiesUniversity of Texas at Austin
_______________________________________________
INDOLOGY mailing list
INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee)
http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe)


_______________________________________________
INDOLOGY mailing list
INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
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_______________________________________________
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_______________________________________________
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-- 
Nagaraj Paturi?Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.?Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies?FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of??Liberal Education,?(Pune, Maharashtra,?INDIA?)???



-- 
Nagaraj Paturi?Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.?Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies?FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of??Liberal Education,?(Pune, Maharashtra,?INDIA?)???





-- 
Nagaraj Paturi?Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.?Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies?FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of??Liberal Education,?(Pune, Maharashtra,?INDIA?)???
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From jataber at unm.edu  Fri Jun 17 18:00:27 2016
From: jataber at unm.edu (John Taber)
Date: Fri, 17 Jun 16 18:00:27 +0000
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Jati as Caste in Nyaya?
In-Reply-To: <184757C3-AE57-4D05-A5C7-A5575EC1857F@uclouvain.be>
Message-ID: <2FF76C35-A8D2-424D-83C3-4E5D0EB94E4A@unm.edu>

Dear Don et al.,

Since Christophe brought up M?m??s?: the relevant passage in Kum?rila is Tantrav?rttika ad MS 1.2.2. This is interpreted by Halbfass in the chapter of Tradition and Reflection mentioned by Sam Wright. (I look forward to reading his forthcoming article in JIP.)

The issue for Kum?rila is mainly the perceptibility of universals, as H. explains. The var?as pose a sort of test case. It's not at all clear that one can just SEE that someone is a brahmin. K. argues that, even though various factors may be required to stimulate perception of a universal - in the case of Brahminhood, for instance, being told the person's lineage - it is perceptible nonetheless. Cf. ?lokav?rttika Vanav?da 26-29, where the problem is discussed in more general terms; other problematic cases are mentioned there (e.g., how does one perceive gheeness in melted ghee? - by smelling or tasting it!). Some universals may be more difficult to perceive than others, but even if one has to climb to the top of a mountain in order to see something (presumably something very far away), that does not make it not perceptible (na hi yad giri???gam ?ruhya g?hyate tad apratyak?am, TV 1.2.2).

There may be certain cultural prejudices in the background of Kum?rila's discussion (here I'm thinking of what Dominik wrote and some of the things Halbfass says: Brahminhood is determined by a universal, not by conduct; it is inherent in someone; there's certainly no social mobility here!), but ultimately I think he is concerned to defend the notion that real (eternal) universals, which are perceptible, as opposed to the pseudo-universals of the Buddhists (apohas), are the meanings of words. Since the universal cowness is perceptible, we can SEE that that is the meaning of the word "cow" when someone points to a cow and says, "That is called a cow." Otherwise, it is not clear how the connected between word and meaning could ever be established.

Cheers again,
JT


On Jun 17, 2016, at 7:08 AM, Christophe Vielle <christophe.vielle at uclouvain.be<mailto:christophe.vielle at uclouvain.be>> wrote:

Dear Don,
The problem is also epistemologically discussed by the Prabhakara-mimamsaka ??likan?tha in the Prakara?apa?cik?, prakara?a 4 : J?tinir?aya
 See short abstract of this chapter in
Potter K. H. ?d. 2014, Philosophy of P?rva-M?m??s?, Delhi, Encyclopedia of Indian Philosophies 16, pp. 308-309 (relying on Verpoorten and Pandurangi)
The 1961 Benares edition of the PP is available here :
http://www.new.dli.ernet.in/handle/2015/383225
(better scan than :
http://www.dli.ernet.in/handle/2015/541509
http://www.dli.ernet.in/handle/2015/311115  )
Here below an extract of the Sansknet input on GRETIL
http://gretil.sub.uni-goettingen.de/gretil/1_sanskr/6_sastra/3_phil/mimamsa/prakp04u.htm
(?)
tad idam apahastitam, yad ?hu?
"?abdatvam eva tattadas?dh?ra??bhivya?jakadhvaninibandhanatay? n?n?var?ape?a vi?ay?bhavat tasya tasy?rthasy?vagam?ya kalpata" iti /
br?hma?atv?dij?tinir?kara?am /
anayaiva ca di?? br?hma?atv?dij?tir api niv?rit? /
nahi n?n?str?puru?avyakti?u puru?atv?darth?ntarabh?tamekam?k?ram?tmas?tkurv?nt? matir?virbhavati /
nahi k?atriy?dibhyo vy?vartam?na? sakalabr?hma?e?vanuvartam?namekam?k?ramaticiramanusandadhato 'pi budhyante /
yadapy?hu?- 79yadyapy?p?tasa?j?tay? dhiy? br?hma?ya? n?vas?yate, tath?pi br?hma?abh?tam?t?pit?sambandh?nusandh?naprabhav?y?? banddhau taccak?st?ti /
tadapi ca svam?nasavisa?v?di /
anusandadh?no 'pi m?t?pit?sambandha? ko j?tvekam?k?ramavaboddhu? prabhavati /
yaccopadar?itam---yath? vil?nam?jya? tail?davyatiricyam?na? gandhagraha?asahak?ri?? cak?u?aiva bhinnamavagamtaya---iti /
tadapi na sundaram /
nahi tad?n?? c?k?u?asya sa?vedanasya vi?ay?tireka?, kintvanum?nameva tatra sarpi?a? /
yastu nipu?adar?o s?k?mamapi r?pam?k?itu? k?ama?, sa cak?u?aiv?jyaj?timapi pratyeti, na gandhagraha?amapek?ate /
nanveva? bahvavah?nam, ki?nibandhano hi tad?n?m?havan?y?dis?dhyakarmasu ke???cidadhik?ro n?nye??m; ki?nibandhan? ca br?hma?a?abdasya prav?ttivyavasth? iti /
atrocyate /
an?dau sa?s?re janyajanakabh?vena vyavasthit?st?vat k??cideva str?puru?asantataya? santi, t?s?manyonyavyatikare?a j?t?? str?pu?savyaktayo br?hma?a?abdav?cy?? /
anidamprathamatay? ca santate? sarve??? tatsantatipatitatv?t siddh? br?hma?a?abdav?cyat? /
tena santativi?e?aprabhavatvameva br?hma?a?abdaprav?tt?vup?dhi? /
tatprabhav?n?meva karmasvadhik?ra iti na ki?cidavah?nam /
ke punaste santativi?e??? /
na te pariga?ayya nirde??u? ?akyante, kintu lokata eva prasiddh?? pratyetavy?? /
tath? ca tajjanyatve 'vagate br?hma?a?abda? prayu?jate lok?? /
(?)
Best wishes,

Christophe

Le 16 juin 2016 ? 20:41, Donald R Davis <drdj at austin.utexas.edu<mailto:drdj at austin.utexas.edu>> a ?crit :

My thanks to Sam Wright who pointed me to the following:

Wilhelm Halbfass, ?Homo Hierarchicus: The Conceptualization of the Varna System in Indian Thought,? in Tradition and Reflecton. SUNY Press, 1991. [contains a long discussion of the jati as caste and as universal in the works of several authors, including Jayanta and, especially, Kumarila on pp. 363ff.]

Samuel Wright, "History in the Abstract: ?Brahman-ness? and the Discipline of Nyaya in Seventeenth-Century Varanasi.? Journal of Indian Philosophy, forthcoming.

The issue is discussed on page 204 in Sukla, S. N. (Ed.). (1971). Nya?yama?jari? of Jayanta Bhat?t?a (Part I). The Kashi Sanskrit Series 106, Nyaya Section No. 15. Varanasi: Chowkhamba Sanskrit Series Office.

Best, Don

From: INDOLOGY <indology-bounces at list.indology.info<mailto:indology-bounces at list.indology.info>> on behalf of Johannes Bronkhorst <johannes.bronkhorst at unil.ch<mailto:johannes.bronkhorst at unil.ch>>
Date: Thursday, June 16, 2016 at 11:40 AM
To: rajam <rajam at earthlink.net<mailto:rajam at earthlink.net>>
Cc: Dominik Wujastyk <wujastyk at gmail.com<mailto:wujastyk at gmail.com>>, "indology at list.indology.info<mailto:indology at list.indology.info>" <indology at list.indology.info<mailto:indology at list.indology.info>>
Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] J?ti as Caste in Ny?ya?

Vincent Eltschinger?s ? Caste ? et philosophie bouddhique (Vienna 2000) seems relevant in this connection. An English version of this book is also available:
Caste and Buddhist Philosophy: Continuity of Some Buddhist Arguments Against the Realist Interpretation of Social Denominations (Motilal Banarsidass 2012)
Johannes

On 16 juin 2016, at 18:37, rajam <rajam at earthlink.net<mailto:rajam at earthlink.net>> wrote:

Many thanks to the originator of this thread!

Right now, I just want to register the fact that I?m very much interested in this topic.

Last year (May 2015), I had a publication (in Tamil) about references to, or a lack there of, ?j?ti? and ?caste? (as we understand it today) in Old Tamil literature/grammar, also known as Sangam literature/grammar.

I don?t know how many of you are aware of the fact that the English word ?caste? has its origin in the Portuguese word ?casta,? which was first recorded in Arte da Lingua Malabar written by Fr. Henrique Henriques in the mid-16th century.

If one wants to dig deep into the understanding of the terms such as ?j?ti? and ?caste? ? one has to have a minimal understanding of the origins of the Western contact with India, which happened in the early 16-th century through Portuguese arrival in South India.

Thanks and regards,
V.S.Rajam


On Jun 16, 2016, at 8:53 AM, Dominik Wujastyk <wujastyk at gmail.com<mailto:wujastyk at gmail.com>> wrote:

?Dear Don,

This interests me a lot, and I'd be grateful to read what you might write about it in future.  It's on my back-burner, but I've long wondered whether Sanskritic narratives about jati and varna can be thought about in ways similar to eighteenth and nineteenth century European narratives about races and species.  Were people of different varnas formally considered to be of different "species?"   It's a bit shocking to think in these terms, but I've been wondering about it.  If you ever put flesh on these bones, one way or another, or can point me to existing discussions on this, I'd be really interested.

Best,
Dominik

--
Professor Dominik Wujastyk*<http://ualberta.academia.edu/DominikWujastyk>
Singhmar Chair in Classical Indian Society and Polity
Department of History and Classics<http://historyandclassics.ualberta.ca/>
University of Alberta, Canada

On 16 June 2016 at 08:53, Donald R Davis <drdj at austin.utexas.edu<mailto:drdj at austin.utexas.edu>> wrote:
Dear Colleagues,

I would be grateful for additional references to an argument mentioned in Jayanta Bhatta?s ?gama?ambara 4.143-4 (in Dezso?s edition in the Clay series).  The question is whether the j?ti of Brahmins, etc. is like the j?ti of cow-ness, etc. in being empirically observable or directly perceivable.  Jayanta refers to those who say that verbal/textual testimony alone (?abdam?tre?a) establishes the four-var?a system.  This prefigures an argument made in Vij??ne?vara?s Mit?k?ar? (on Yaj 1.90) where the same distinction is drawn to refute an objection.

I assumed Jayanta would have made a similar argument in his Ny?yama?jar?, but I have not been able to locate it (probably because I barely know the Ny?ya literature).  If anyone could point me toward other instances of this issue, whether in original sources or contemporary research, I?d appreciate it.

Best,

Don Davis
Dept of Asian Studies
University of Texas at Austin

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???????????????????
Christophe Vielle<http://www.uclouvain.be/christophe.vielle>
Louvain-la-Neuve

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From scharfpm7 at gmail.com  Fri Jun 17 19:28:17 2016
From: scharfpm7 at gmail.com (Peter Scharf)
Date: Fri, 17 Jun 16 15:28:17 -0400
Subject: [INDOLOGY]  Devanagari font adequacy
Message-ID: <95F29D5C-E6E6-41CD-91CD-80CB73DE8099@gmail.com>

Dear Indologists,

I have just completed a comparison of the ligature formation produced by several Devanagari fonts and thought it might be useful to share the results of the comparison.  I compared 1260 ligatures formed by the LaTeX Skt package with seven Unicode fonts.  The ligatures compared were the combined set of all those listed by Ulrich Stiehl in his document, Conjunct Consonants in Sanskrit, Heidelberg, 21 April 2003, pp. 4--34, and those listed in the Skt package documentation Sanskrit for LaTeX2e, pp. 22--35.

1. LaTeX Skt package
2. Chandas
3. Uttara
4. Sanskrit2003
5. Praja
6. Arial Unicode MS
7. Devanagari MT
8. Mangal

The LaTeX Skt package comes with the TeXLive installation available at https://www.tug.org/texlive/.  The Chandas and Uttara fonts were produced by produced by Mihail Bayaryn and are available at http://www.sanskritweb.net/cakram/.  The Sanskrit2003 font was produced by Ulrich Stiehl and is available at http://www.omkarananda-ashram.org/Sanskrit/itranslator2003.htm.  These fonts are all available free of cost.  Praja was produced by Peter Freund and is available for $35 at https://secure.bmtmicro.com/servlets/Orders.ShoppingCart?CID=5115&PRODUCTID=51150002.  Arial Unicode MS is available with Microsoft Office, FrontPage and Publisher, with the installation of international support.  Devanagari MT is available with Mac systems with the Asian languages support.  Mangal is available with Windows systems with supplemental language support.

The comparison showed that Chandas and Uttara are able to form all conjuncts correctly with the exception of seven sequences: ?k??va, ?rvya, ?hthya, d??a, ddbra, ddvra, l?la, without the interruption of an inappropriate vir?ma.  The LaTeX Skt package handles all but 29.  Sanskrit 2003 lacked 80, Praja 187, Arial Unicode MS 201, Devanagari MT 232, and Mangal 236.  I also checked the behavior of the fonts in handling the accents in the Devanagari extended, and Vedic extenstions Unicode pages.  Only the Praja font handled them all properly, the LaTeX Skt package handles most Vedic accentuation, while most fonts handled only the common accentual system.  A test of Vedic accents with any font can be performed by visiting the Sanskrit Library's interactive Vedic Unicode character phonetic value table at http://sanskritlibrary.org/accents.html.  Simply set your browser to use the font you would like to test.

The first five fonts listed are therefore commendable; the last three are inadequate for Sanskrit.  It would be desirable for Mihail Bayaryn and Ulrich Stiehl to upgrade their fonts, which otherwise handle conjuncts very comprehensively, to handle the Vedic characters in the two Unicode pages mentioned including in particular the combining candrabindu with semivowels l, y, and v.

Other Indic fonts not tested are described on the University of Chicago's South Asia Language Resource Center page at http://salrc.uchicago.edu/resources/fonts/available/hindi/.

Yours,
Peter

*************************
Peter M. Scharf
scharfpm7 at gmail.com
*************************



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From eastwestcultural at yahoo.com  Sat Jun 18 01:20:59 2016
From: eastwestcultural at yahoo.com (Dean Michael Anderson)
Date: Sat, 18 Jun 16 01:20:59 +0000
Subject: [INDOLOGY]  Devanagari font adequacy
In-Reply-To: <95F29D5C-E6E6-41CD-91CD-80CB73DE8099@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1453684933.5609681.1466212859240.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>

Thanks for this very useful information Peter!
Best,
Dean

      From: Peter Scharf <scharfpm7 at gmail.com>
 To: indology at list.indology.info 
 Sent: Saturday, June 18, 2016 12:58 AM
 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Devanagari font adequacy
   
Dear Indologists,
I have just completed a comparison of the ligature formation produced by several Devanagari fonts and thought it might be useful to share the results of the comparison. ?I compared 1260 ligatures formed by the LaTeX Skt package with seven Unicode fonts. ?The ligatures compared were the combined set of all those listed by Ulrich Stiehl in his document, Conjunct Consonants in Sanskrit, Heidelberg, 21 April 2003, pp. 4--34, and those listed in the Skt package documentation Sanskrit for LaTeX2e, pp. 22--35.
1. LaTeX Skt package2. Chandas3. Uttara4. Sanskrit20035. Praja6. Arial Unicode MS7. Devanagari MT8. Mangal
The LaTeX Skt package comes with the TeXLive installation available at?https://www.tug.org/texlive/. ?The Chandas and Uttara fonts were produced by produced by Mihail Bayaryn and are available at?http://www.sanskritweb.net/cakram/. ?The Sanskrit2003 font was produced by Ulrich Stiehl and is available at?http://www.omkarananda-ashram.org/Sanskrit/itranslator2003.htm. ?These fonts are all available free of cost. ?Praja was produced by Peter Freund and is available for $35 at?https://secure.bmtmicro.com/servlets/Orders.ShoppingCart?CID=5115&PRODUCTID=51150002. ?Arial Unicode MS is available with Microsoft Office, FrontPage and Publisher, with the installation of international support. ?Devanagari MT is available with Mac systems with the Asian languages support. ?Mangal is available with Windows systems with supplemental language support.
The comparison showed that Chandas and Uttara are able to form all conjuncts correctly with the exception of seven sequences: ?k??va, ?rvya, ?hthya, d??a, ddbra, ddvra, l?la, without the interruption of an inappropriate vir?ma. ?The LaTeX Skt package handles all but 29. ?Sanskrit 2003 lacked 80, Praja 187, Arial Unicode MS 201, Devanagari MT 232, and Mangal 236. ?I also checked the behavior of the fonts in handling the accents in the Devanagari extended, and Vedic extenstions Unicode pages. ?Only the Praja font handled them all properly, the LaTeX Skt package handles most Vedic accentuation, while most fonts handled only the common accentual system. ?A test of Vedic accents with any font can be performed by visiting the Sanskrit Library's interactive Vedic Unicode character phonetic value table at?http://sanskritlibrary.org/accents.html. ?Simply set your browser to use the font you would like to test.
The first five fonts listed are therefore commendable; the last three are inadequate for Sanskrit. ?It would be desirable for Mihail Bayaryn and Ulrich Stiehl to upgrade their fonts, which otherwise handle conjuncts very comprehensively, to handle the Vedic characters in the two Unicode pages mentioned including in particular the combining candrabindu with semivowels l, y, and v.
Other Indic fonts not tested are described on the University of Chicago's South Asia Language Resource Center page at?http://salrc.uchicago.edu/resources/fonts/available/hindi/.
Yours,Peter
*************************Peter M. Scharfscharfpm7 at gmail.com*************************

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From karp at uw.edu.pl  Sat Jun 18 12:12:55 2016
From: karp at uw.edu.pl (Artur Karp)
Date: Sat, 18 Jun 16 14:12:55 +0200
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Numbers --- # 1
Message-ID: <CALNcvFvO3kipRO0nGE3VRqCyyKY_+sfEGtNNyH+1g6QVxHQ3sw@mail.gmail.com>

Dear List,

*84 000*.

The number appears in Buddhist texts, most intensively in the
*Sudassana-sutta*, where it serves to contain in itself the final, perfect,
model shape of reality - in its various perceivable aspects .

In the Buddhaghosa's *Sumangala-vilasini* Asoka plans to divide the relics
of the Buddha into 84 000 portions, to be placed in 84 000 stupas - planned
to be built throughout his kingdom.

Is there somewhere in the Buddhist tradition a mention of the idea of *human
body* numbering 84 000 elements?

Why 84 000? And not, for example - 100 000?

Thanking you in advance,

Artur Karp (ret.)
Chair of South Asian Studies
University of Warsaw
Poland


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From karp at uw.edu.pl  Sat Jun 18 12:25:35 2016
From: karp at uw.edu.pl (Artur Karp)
Date: Sat, 18 Jun 16 14:25:35 +0200
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Numbers --- # 2
Message-ID: <CALNcvFuANTvkVyUdMeFvCLba_zmF6VMQL6RTEMFLkFufuggbCA@mail.gmail.com>

Dear List,

*51*

According to tradition there are 51 ?akti-pithas; 51 sanctuaries devoted to
(propagating the cult of) a particular member of the Devi's body.

Is there somewhere in the Hindu tradition a mention of the idea of *human
body* numbering 51 elements?

Why 51? And not, for example - 60?

Thanking you in advance,

Artur Karp (ret.)
Chair of South Asian Studies
University of Warsaw
Poland


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From scharfpm7 at gmail.com  Sat Jun 18 13:37:12 2016
From: scharfpm7 at gmail.com (Peter Scharf)
Date: Sat, 18 Jun 16 09:37:12 -0400
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Transcoding
In-Reply-To: <9193A73B-5470-490D-83C3-C4A1CA06C373@soas.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <D2A2BD41-0EA0-4D3C-9F58-1C3AF82BE394@gmail.com>

Dear Peter and others,

The most convenient way to transform Sanskrit text from one encoding to another is to use the transcoding software developed by the Sanskrit Library.  This transcoding software can be used in one of two ways:

1. Strings of text of any length can be transcoded in toto by pasting them into the transcoding window on the web at: http://sanskritlibrary.org/transcodeText.html
Simply select the input and output encodings from the two menus at the bottom of the page.

2. Download the transcoding software and install it locally on your own machine and run it under Unix and transcode from and two a great number of transcodings.  On a Mac or Linux system this is easy.  I don't know how to do it on a PC.  The downloaded software permits very sophisticated delineation of which strings to transcode within a document of mixed text.  One can tag strings in a certain way, for example with specific start and end character strings or xml tags, and then transcode all strings with those tags in one way and all strings with another tag in another, e.g. transcode <s>kfzRa</s> to Devanagari and <r>kfzRa</r> to Roman.  Or one can select text within a document to transcode using regular expressions.  The software is available for download near the bottom of the alphabetical list of downloadable software on the Sanskrit Library downloads page: http://sanskritlibrary.org/downloads.html.  Look for TranscodeFile (Java program)

I have made a number of transcoding rules for my own use which I'm glad to share if you want help getting started.
Yours,
Peter

*************************
Peter M. Scharf
scharfpm7 at gmail.com
*************************

On 18 Jun 2016, at 5:18 AM, Peter Flugel wrote:

> Dear Peter
> 
> Thank you for this really interesting information.
> 
> I have a question which you may be able to answer as well: what is the best way for transforming texts written in Nagari characters into roman script? I am trying to integrate two data bases. 
> 
> Yours
> 
> Peter 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
> On 17 Jun 2016, at 20:28, Peter Scharf <scharfpm7 at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
>> Dear Indologists,
>> 
>> I have just completed a comparison of the ligature formation produced by several Devanagari fonts and thought it might be useful to share the results of the comparison.  I compared 1260 ligatures formed by the LaTeX Skt package with seven Unicode fonts.  The ligatures compared were the combined set of all those listed by Ulrich Stiehl in his document, Conjunct Consonants in Sanskrit, Heidelberg, 21 April 2003, pp. 4--34, and those listed in the Skt package documentation Sanskrit for LaTeX2e, pp. 22--35.
>> 
>> 1. LaTeX Skt package
>> 2. Chandas
>> 3. Uttara
>> 4. Sanskrit2003
>> 5. Praja
>> 6. Arial Unicode MS
>> 7. Devanagari MT
>> 8. Mangal
>> 
>> The LaTeX Skt package comes with the TeXLive installation available at https://www.tug.org/texlive/.  The Chandas and Uttara fonts were produced by produced by Mihail Bayaryn and are available at http://www.sanskritweb.net/cakram/.  The Sanskrit2003 font was produced by Ulrich Stiehl and is available at http://www.omkarananda-ashram.org/Sanskrit/itranslator2003.htm.  These fonts are all available free of cost.  Praja was produced by Peter Freund and is available for $35 at https://secure.bmtmicro.com/servlets/Orders.ShoppingCart?CID=5115&PRODUCTID=51150002.  Arial Unicode MS is available with Microsoft Office, FrontPage and Publisher, with the installation of international support.  Devanagari MT is available with Mac systems with the Asian languages support.  Mangal is available with Windows systems with supplemental language support.
>> 
>> The comparison showed that Chandas and Uttara are able to form all conjuncts correctly with the exception of seven sequences: ?k??va, ?rvya, ?hthya, d??a, ddbra, ddvra, l?la, without the interruption of an inappropriate vir?ma.  The LaTeX Skt package handles all but 29.  Sanskrit 2003 lacked 80, Praja 187, Arial Unicode MS 201, Devanagari MT 232, and Mangal 236.  I also checked the behavior of the fonts in handling the accents in the Devanagari extended, and Vedic extenstions Unicode pages.  Only the Praja font handled them all properly, the LaTeX Skt package handles most Vedic accentuation, while most fonts handled only the common accentual system.  A test of Vedic accents with any font can be performed by visiting the Sanskrit Library's interactive Vedic Unicode character phonetic value table at http://sanskritlibrary.org/accents.html.  Simply set your browser to use the font you would like to test.
>> 
>> The first five fonts listed are therefore commendable; the last three are inadequate for Sanskrit.  It would be desirable for Mihail Bayaryn and Ulrich Stiehl to upgrade their fonts, which otherwise handle conjuncts very comprehensively, to handle the Vedic characters in the two Unicode pages mentioned including in particular the combining candrabindu with semivowels l, y, and v.
>> 
>> Other Indic fonts not tested are described on the University of Chicago's South Asia Language Resource Center page at http://salrc.uchicago.edu/resources/fonts/available/hindi/.
>> 
>> Yours,
>> Peter
>> 
>> *************************
>> Peter M. Scharf
>> scharfpm7 at gmail.com
>> *************************
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee)
>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe)



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From hspier.muktabodha at gmail.com  Sat Jun 18 18:40:19 2016
From: hspier.muktabodha at gmail.com (Harry Spier)
Date: Sat, 18 Jun 16 14:40:19 -0400
Subject: [INDOLOGY] ISO transliteration standard for devanagari
Message-ID: <CAPW7aQGpnP80i5Sz81EoA-xp0SO5L1RwHEp5gB-eH-iX1NknpA@mail.gmail.com>

I have just been going through the ISO standard for transliteration of
Devanagari and related Indic scripts ISO-15919 and I found something quite
surpriseing.

Note the following rule quoted exactly  from the standard is a requirement
not an option. The rule includes an example from Sanskrit.
---------------------

8.1 Special requirements
Rule 3.
a)

In modern vernaculars, anusvara before a stop or class nasal shall be
transliterated as the corresponding class nasal; in other languages,
anusvara before a stop or class nasal shall be transliterated as
thecorresponding
class nasal unless it arises from sandhi (euphonic combination) of final m
with that consonant.

EXAMPLE 1 Sanskrit* ???* is transliterated as *sa?ga *when it represents
the noun formed from *sam* + root *gam*, but as *sa?ga* when it represents
the noun derived from the root *sa?j*
------------------------------

That means in many cases  if you transliterated a manuscript exactly as it
was keeping all anusvaras as anusvaras you would not be following the ISO
standard for transliteration.  It also seems to me the standard is crossing
the line from transliteration into "interpretation".

I'm somewhat surprised this found its way into the standard.

Harry Spier
.


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From ondracka at ff.cuni.cz  Sat Jun 18 20:51:39 2016
From: ondracka at ff.cuni.cz (Lubomir Ondracka)
Date: Sat, 18 Jun 16 22:51:39 +0200
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Numbers --- # 1
In-Reply-To: <CALNcvFvO3kipRO0nGE3VRqCyyKY_+sfEGtNNyH+1g6QVxHQ3sw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20160618225139.a7c13257519cff6ec1e379a3@ff.cuni.cz>

Dear Artur,

on the number 84 000 in Buddhist (and Jaina) sources, see this very interesting study:
Ruth Satinsky, "What can the lifespans of ??abha, Bharata, ?rey??sa, and Ara tell us about the History of the concept of Mount Meru?", International Journal of Jaina Studies 11.1 (2015) 1-24.

It is available on-line:
https://www.soas.ac.uk/research/publications/journals/ijjs/file100251.pdf

Lubomir


On Sat, 18 Jun 2016 14:12:55 +0200
Artur Karp <karp at uw.edu.pl> wrote:

> Dear List,
> 
> *84 000*.
> 
> The number appears in Buddhist texts, most intensively in the
> *Sudassana-sutta*, where it serves to contain in itself the final, perfect,
> model shape of reality - in its various perceivable aspects .
> 
> In the Buddhaghosa's *Sumangala-vilasini* Asoka plans to divide the relics
> of the Buddha into 84 000 portions, to be placed in 84 000 stupas - planned
> to be built throughout his kingdom.
> 
> Is there somewhere in the Buddhist tradition a mention of the idea of *human
> body* numbering 84 000 elements?
> 
> Why 84 000? And not, for example - 100 000?
> 
> Thanking you in advance,
> 
> Artur Karp (ret.)
> Chair of South Asian Studies
> University of Warsaw
> Poland





From karp at uw.edu.pl  Sat Jun 18 22:00:17 2016
From: karp at uw.edu.pl (Artur Karp)
Date: Sun, 19 Jun 16 00:00:17 +0200
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Numbers --- # 1
In-Reply-To: <20160618225139.a7c13257519cff6ec1e379a3@ff.cuni.cz>
Message-ID: <CALNcvFt8XKEym8tpGyxUi_s62L1zPWKcgobPp5o9LAzpgTHHxg@mail.gmail.com>

Dear Lubomir,

Thank you for the link. But - but I do not find in the paper the answer for
the question --- why, ultimately, eighty-four?

The inner structure of the number: 7 x 12

Is it a result of some numerological game?

Best,

Artur

2016-06-18 22:51 GMT+02:00 Lubomir Ondracka <ondracka at ff.cuni.cz>:

> Dear Artur,
>
> on the number 84 000 in Buddhist (and Jaina) sources, see this very
> interesting study:
> Ruth Satinsky, "What can the lifespans of ??abha, Bharata, ?rey??sa, and
> Ara tell us about the History of the concept of Mount Meru?", International
> Journal of Jaina Studies 11.1 (2015) 1-24.
>
> It is available on-line:
> https://www.soas.ac.uk/research/publications/journals/ijjs/file100251.pdf
>
> Lubomir
>
>
> On Sat, 18 Jun 2016 14:12:55 +0200
> Artur Karp <karp at uw.edu.pl> wrote:
>
> > Dear List,
> >
> > *84 000*.
> >
> > The number appears in Buddhist texts, most intensively in the
> > *Sudassana-sutta*, where it serves to contain in itself the final,
> perfect,
> > model shape of reality - in its various perceivable aspects .
> >
> > In the Buddhaghosa's *Sumangala-vilasini* Asoka plans to divide the
> relics
> > of the Buddha into 84 000 portions, to be placed in 84 000 stupas -
> planned
> > to be built throughout his kingdom.
> >
> > Is there somewhere in the Buddhist tradition a mention of the idea of
> *human
> > body* numbering 84 000 elements?
> >
> > Why 84 000? And not, for example - 100 000?
> >
> > Thanking you in advance,
> >
> > Artur Karp (ret.)
> > Chair of South Asian Studies
> > University of Warsaw
> > Poland
>


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From emstern at verizon.net  Sat Jun 18 22:11:03 2016
From: emstern at verizon.net (Elliot Stern)
Date: Sat, 18 Jun 16 17:11:03 -0500
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Jati as Caste in Nyaya?
In-Reply-To: <D3885B6B.11537%drdj@austin.utexas.edu>
Message-ID: <9D68BFF8-B196-49C7-8B91-012DA9B02D8F@verizon.net>

I do not have all my references at hand while traveling, but the discussion of br?hma?yam that begins at line 18 on page 767 of prabh?candra?s ny?yakumudacandra? should be of some interest.  I do not remember clearly, but there may be a similar discussion in abhayadevas?ri?s tattvabodhavidh?yin?.


Elliot M. Stern
552 South 48th Street
Philadelphia, PA 19143-2029
United States of America
telephone: 215-747-6204
mobile: 267-240-8418
emstern at verizon.net

> On 16 Jun  2016, at 13:41, Donald R Davis <drdj at austin.utexas.edu> wrote:
> 
> My thanks to Sam Wright who pointed me to the following:
> 
> Wilhelm Halbfass, ?Homo Hierarchicus: The Conceptualization of the Varna System in Indian Thought,? in Tradition and Reflecton. SUNY Press, 1991. [contains a long discussion of the jati as caste and as universal in the works of several authors, including Jayanta and, especially, Kumarila on pp. 363ff.]
> 
> Samuel Wright, "History in the Abstract: ?Brahman-ness? and the Discipline of Nyaya in Seventeenth-Century Varanasi.? Journal of Indian Philosophy, forthcoming. 
> 
> The issue is discussed on page 204 in Sukla, S. N. (Ed.). (1971). Nya?yama?jari? of Jayanta Bhat?t?a (Part I). The Kashi Sanskrit Series 106, Nyaya Section No. 15. Varanasi: Chowkhamba Sanskrit Series Office.
> 
> Best, Don
> 
> From: INDOLOGY <indology-bounces at list.indology.info <mailto:indology-bounces at list.indology.info>> on behalf of Johannes Bronkhorst <johannes.bronkhorst at unil.ch <mailto:johannes.bronkhorst at unil.ch>>
> Date: Thursday, June 16, 2016 at 11:40 AM
> To: rajam <rajam at earthlink.net <mailto:rajam at earthlink.net>>
> Cc: Dominik Wujastyk <wujastyk at gmail.com <mailto:wujastyk at gmail.com>>, "indology at list.indology.info <mailto:indology at list.indology.info>" <indology at list.indology.info <mailto:indology at list.indology.info>>
> Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] J?ti as Caste in Ny?ya?
> 
> Vincent Eltschinger?s ? Caste ? et philosophie bouddhique (Vienna 2000) seems relevant in this connection. An English version of this book is also available:
> 
> Caste and Buddhist Philosophy: Continuity of Some Buddhist Arguments Against the Realist Interpretation of Social Denominations (Motilal Banarsidass 2012)
> 
> Johannes
> 
>> On 16 juin 2016, at 18:37, rajam <rajam at earthlink.net <mailto:rajam at earthlink.net>> wrote:
>> 
>> Many thanks to the originator of this thread!
>> 
>> Right now, I just want to register the fact that I?m very much interested in this topic.
>> 
>> Last year (May 2015), I had a publication (in Tamil) about references to, or a lack there of, ?j?ti? and ?caste? (as we understand it today) in Old Tamil literature/grammar, also known as Sangam literature/grammar.
>> 
>> I don?t know how many of you are aware of the fact that the English word ?caste? has its origin in the Portuguese word ?casta,? which was first recorded in Arte da Lingua Malabar written by Fr. Henrique Henriques in the mid-16th century. 
>> 
>> If one wants to dig deep into the understanding of the terms such as ?j?ti? and ?caste? ? one has to have a minimal understanding of the origins of the Western contact with India, which happened in the early 16-th century through Portuguese arrival in South India.
>> 
>> Thanks and regards,
>> V.S.Rajam
>> 
>> 
>>> On Jun 16, 2016, at 8:53 AM, Dominik Wujastyk <wujastyk at gmail.com <mailto:wujastyk at gmail.com>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> ?Dear Don,
>>> 
>>> This interests me a lot, and I'd be grateful to read what you might write about it in future.  It's on my back-burner, but I've long wondered whether Sanskritic narratives about jati and varna can be thought about in ways similar to eighteenth and nineteenth century European narratives about races and species.  Were people of different varnas formally considered to be of different "species?"   It's a bit shocking to think in these terms, but I've been wondering about it.  If you ever put flesh on these bones, one way or another, or can point me to existing discussions on this, I'd be really interested.
>>> 
>>> Best,
>>> Dominik
>>> 
>>> --
>>> Professor Dominik Wujastyk* <http://ualberta.academia.edu/DominikWujastyk>
>>> Singhmar Chair in Classical Indian Society and Polity
>>> Department of History and Classics <http://historyandclassics.ualberta.ca/>
>>> University of Alberta, Canada
>>> 
>>> On 16 June 2016 at 08:53, Donald R Davis <drdj at austin.utexas.edu <mailto:drdj at austin.utexas.edu>> wrote:
>>> Dear Colleagues,
>>> 
>>> I would be grateful for additional references to an argument mentioned in Jayanta Bhatta?s ?gama?ambara 4.143-4 (in Dezso?s edition in the Clay series).  The question is whether the j?ti of Brahmins, etc. is like the j?ti of cow-ness, etc. in being empirically observable or directly perceivable.  Jayanta refers to those who say that verbal/textual testimony alone (?abdam?tre?a) establishes the four-var?a system.  This prefigures an argument made in Vij??ne?vara?s Mit?k?ar? (on Yaj 1.90) where the same distinction is drawn to refute an objection.
>>> 
>>> I assumed Jayanta would have made a similar argument in his Ny?yama?jar?, but I have not been able to locate it (probably because I barely know the Ny?ya literature).  If anyone could point me toward other instances of this issue, whether in original sources or contemporary research, I?d appreciate it.
>>> 
>>> Best,
>>> 
>>> Don Davis
>>> Dept of Asian Studies
>>> University of Texas at Austin
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info <mailto:INDOLOGY at list.indology.info>
>>> indology-owner at list.indology.info <mailto:indology-owner at list.indology.info> (messages to the list's managing committee)
>>> http://listinfo.indology.info <http://listinfo.indology.info/> (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe)
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info <mailto:INDOLOGY at list.indology.info>
>>> indology-owner at list.indology.info <mailto:indology-owner at list.indology.info> (messages to the list's managing committee)
>>> http://listinfo.indology.info <http://listinfo.indology.info/> (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe)
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info <mailto:INDOLOGY at list.indology.info>
>> indology-owner at list.indology.info <mailto:indology-owner at list.indology.info> (messages to the list's managing committee)
>> http://listinfo.indology.info <http://listinfo.indology.info/> (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe)
> 
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
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From Ruth.Satinsky at unil.ch  Sun Jun 19 01:11:10 2016
From: Ruth.Satinsky at unil.ch (Ruth Satinsky Sieber)
Date: Sun, 19 Jun 16 01:11:10 +0000
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Numbers --- # 1
In-Reply-To: <CALNcvFt8XKEym8tpGyxUi_s62L1zPWKcgobPp5o9LAzpgTHHxg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <6A28F760-19CB-47C7-98A1-C3EB5DDFF0C6@unil.ch>

Dear Artur,

I have researched the number 84,000 extensively and have never come across any explanation whatsoever of its meaning in Buddhist, Jaina or Brahmanical texts.

However, on p. 3 fn11 of my article cited by Lubomir below, I mention the following:

W. Randolf Kloetzli (personal communication, 13 December 2011) has speculated that the number 84,000
could be ?derived from some formula for relating the seven planets to the twelve signs of the zodiac (7 . 12 =
84).? John Brockington (personal communication, 8 January 2012) has proposed that the number eighty-four
represents the seven days of the week multiplied by the twelve months of the year. The number seven, he says, is
prominent with the??j?vikas, and important in the Iranian tradition, where one finds the concept of the week
very strong. Walther Schubring 1935/1962/2000: 28 has stated: ?it should be remembered that the figure of
eighty-four or either of its plurals frequently appear with the Jains and elsewhere where they only fail to give
precise details for something founded on fact.?


Whatever the case, I would not be inclined to see it as a numerical game.


Ruth Satinsky



Dear Lubomir,

Thank you for the link. But - but I do not find in the paper the answer for the question --- why, ultimately, eighty-four?

The inner structure of the number: 7 x 12

Is it a result of some numerological game?

Best,

Artur

2016-06-18 22:51 GMT+02:00 Lubomir Ondracka <ondracka at ff.cuni.cz<mailto:ondracka at ff.cuni.cz>>:
Dear Artur,

on the number 84 000 in Buddhist (and Jaina) sources, see this very interesting study:
Ruth Satinsky, "What can the lifespans of ??abha, Bharata, ?rey??sa, and Ara tell us about the History of the concept of Mount Meru?", International Journal of Jaina Studies 11.1 (2015) 1-24.

It is available on-line:
https://www.soas.ac.uk/research/publications/journals/ijjs/file100251.pdf

Lubomir


On Sat, 18 Jun 2016 14:12:55 +0200
Artur Karp <karp at uw.edu.pl<mailto:karp at uw.edu.pl>> wrote:

> Dear List,
>
> *84 000*.
>
> The number appears in Buddhist texts, most intensively in the
> *Sudassana-sutta*, where it serves to contain in itself the final, perfect,
> model shape of reality - in its various perceivable aspects .
>
> In the Buddhaghosa's *Sumangala-vilasini* Asoka plans to divide the relics
> of the Buddha into 84 000 portions, to be placed in 84 000 stupas - planned
> to be built throughout his kingdom.
>
> Is there somewhere in the Buddhist tradition a mention of the idea of *human
> body* numbering 84 000 elements?
>
> Why 84 000? And not, for example - 100 000?
>
> Thanking you in advance,
>
> Artur Karp (ret.)
> Chair of South Asian Studies
> University of Warsaw
> Poland

_______________________________________________
INDOLOGY mailing list
INDOLOGY at list.indology.info<mailto:INDOLOGY at list.indology.info>
indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee)
http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe)



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From mmdesh at umich.edu  Sun Jun 19 01:35:19 2016
From: mmdesh at umich.edu (Madhav Deshpande)
Date: Sun, 19 Jun 16 07:05:19 +0530
Subject: [INDOLOGY] The worry of a Pune mother: My Sanskrit verse
Message-ID: <CAB3-dzdmbtr5pSy738EL2U_uAopRvx+9MJ6atmgcj-GSgT=zjA@mail.gmail.com>

The worry of a Pune mother in my Sanskrit verse:

???? ?????? ?? ?????????????????? ?? ??? ????? ?
?? ???? ? ????? ???, ? ?? ??????????? ?-??-??-???? ??
??????? ???? ? ?????: ????????, ??? ???? ?????? ????
? ?????? ??????:, ???: ??????, ??????? ???? ???????? ??

"Though this boy of mine has a smiling face, I am still worried. He calls
me A-I A-I (mother in Marathi), but he does not yet know A-B-C-D. What is
the fortune of someone in this world who does not know English from his
state of embryo. There will be no computer, no good money, and how will he
get a wife."

-- 
Madhav M. Deshpande
Professor of Sanskrit and Linguistics
Department of Asian Languages and Cultures
202 South Thayer Street, Suite 6111
The University of Michigan
Ann Arbor, MI 48104-1608, USA


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From nmisra at gmail.com  Sun Jun 19 04:31:58 2016
From: nmisra at gmail.com (Nityanand Misra)
Date: Sun, 19 Jun 16 10:01:58 +0530
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Devanagari font adequacy
In-Reply-To: <95F29D5C-E6E6-41CD-91CD-80CB73DE8099@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAATk=rBwrJ70vS8eMrz=zijxRjRwnwrmAAyUsvcXQkJn71HhpA@mail.gmail.com>

Dear Prof. Scharf

Are the .tex files available for reference? Would be helpful to use them.
Some of the conjuncts in Ulrich Stiehl's list are absent in Sanskrit. For
example ??? (conjunct # 572 in Stiehl's list) would be impossible in
Sanskrit due to ???? ??? ???.

As for the five recommended fonts, how many have bold, bold italic, and
italic weights? I know that Chandas, Sanskrit 2003, (and most probably
Uttara too) have only one weight. It is impractical to typeset a book in a
single weight. One can resort to AutoFakeBold and AutoFakeSlant options in
LaTeX but the result would be unprofessional. Another thing is that fonts
like Chandas are good for screen, but when printed they look synthetic. The
two strokes in ? of Chandas are both straight lines, looks very unnatural.

The font I have settled for with use in LaTeX is Chanakya Sanskrit by
Summit Information Technology Pvt Ltd based in Gurgaon. This is the
extension of the legacy Chanakya font that is used by all standard Indian
publishers like Gita Press. Beautiful, artistic, and with four weights. It
is expensive to buy, but worth the money if one wants to use the fonts to
publish books. Sample pages of a book I recently designed and typeset in
XeLaTeX using Chanakya Pro (Chanakya Sanskrit is a superset of Chanakya
Pro) are attached.

PS: Chanakya Pro and Chanakya Sanskrit are both without Vedic accents. This
is a limitation.

PPS: I stopped using skt package long ago, since XeLaTeX allows direct
Unicode input. For four years now I have used XeLaTeX with polyglossia to
typeset books in Sanskrit and Hindi.

Thanks, Nityanand

On 18 June 2016 at 00:58, Peter Scharf <scharfpm7 at gmail.com> wrote:

> Dear Indologists,
>
> I have just completed a comparison of the ligature formation produced by
> several Devanagari fonts and thought it might be useful to share the
> results of the comparison.  I compared 1260 ligatures formed by the LaTeX
> Skt package with seven Unicode fonts.  The ligatures compared were the
> combined set of all those listed by Ulrich Stiehl in his document, *Conjunct
> Consonants in Sanskrit*, Heidelberg, 21 April 2003, pp. 4--34, and those
> listed in the Skt package documentation *Sanskrit for LaTeX2e*, pp.
> 22--35.
>
> 1. LaTeX Skt package
> 2. Chandas
> 3. Uttara
> 4. Sanskrit2003
> 5. Praja
> 6. Arial Unicode MS
> 7. Devanagari MT
> 8. Mangal
>
> The LaTeX Skt package comes with the TeXLive installation available at
> https://www.tug.org/texlive/.  The Chandas and Uttara fonts were produced
> by produced by Mihail Bayaryn and are available at
> http://www.sanskritweb.net/cakram/.  The Sanskrit2003 font was produced
> by Ulrich Stiehl and is available at
> http://www.omkarananda-ashram.org/Sanskrit/itranslator2003.htm.  These
> fonts are all available free of cost.  Praja was produced by Peter Freund
> and is available for $35 at
> https://secure.bmtmicro.com/servlets/Orders.ShoppingCart?CID=5115&PRODUCTID=51150002.
> Arial Unicode MS is available with Microsoft Office, FrontPage and
> Publisher, with the installation of international support.  Devanagari MT
> is available with Mac systems with the Asian languages support.  Mangal is
> available with Windows systems with supplemental language support.
>
> The comparison showed that Chandas and Uttara are able to form all
> conjuncts correctly with the exception of seven sequences: *?k??va*,
> *?rvya*, *?hthya*, *d??a*, *ddbra*, *ddvra*, *l?la*, without the
> interruption of an inappropriate vir?ma.  The LaTeX Skt package handles all
> but 29.  Sanskrit 2003 lacked 80, Praja 187, Arial Unicode MS 201,
> Devanagari MT 232, and Mangal 236.  I also checked the behavior of the
> fonts in handling the accents in the Devanagari extended, and Vedic
> extenstions Unicode pages.  Only the Praja font handled them all properly,
> the LaTeX Skt package handles most Vedic accentuation, while most fonts
> handled only the common accentual system.  A test of Vedic accents with any
> font can be performed by visiting the Sanskrit Library's interactive Vedic
> Unicode character phonetic value table at
> http://sanskritlibrary.org/accents.html.  Simply set your browser to use
> the font you would like to test.
>
> The first five fonts listed are therefore commendable; the last three are
> inadequate for Sanskrit.  It would be desirable for Mihail Bayaryn and
> Ulrich Stiehl to upgrade their fonts, which otherwise handle conjuncts very
> comprehensively, to handle the Vedic characters in the two Unicode pages
> mentioned including in particular the combining candrabindu with semivowels
> *l*, *y*, and *v*.
>
> Other Indic fonts not tested are described on the University of Chicago's
> South Asia Language Resource Center page at
> http://salrc.uchicago.edu/resources/fonts/available/hindi/.
>
> Yours,
> Peter
>
> *************************
> Peter M. Scharf
> scharfpm7 at gmail.com
> *************************
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
> committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
> unsubscribe)
>



-- 
Nity?nanda Mi?ra
http://nmisra.googlepages.com


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From nagarajpaturi at gmail.com  Sun Jun 19 04:40:46 2016
From: nagarajpaturi at gmail.com (Nagaraj Paturi)
Date: Sun, 19 Jun 16 10:10:46 +0530
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Numbers --- # 1
In-Reply-To: <6A28F760-19CB-47C7-98A1-C3EB5DDFF0C6@unil.ch>
Message-ID: <CAJGj9eZEYj6AwjzwAfz1wf+-Ome9QHZ6kkMS+Di1VRVQHTzsBg@mail.gmail.com>

The following is found at

https://www.reddit.com/r/Buddhism/comments/48e22q/significance_of_84000/

>From Ch'an And Zen Teaching: First Series
<http://wenshuchan-online.weebly.com/charles-luks-translations.html>
Description below is seen in one of the footnotes to Hanshan's commentary
on Diamond Sutra.

The number 8 is a symbol of the Eighth Consciousness or alaya?vijnana and 4
of the four forms (laksana) of ego, being, personality and life. Together
they imply the Eighth Consciousness held in bondage by the four forms, i.e.
Space. The long line of zeros is a symbol of Time, and so long as one
remains deluded it is immaterial to add 10 or 1,000 more zeros at the end
of the line. The Buddha was still under delusion when he met Dipamkara
Buddha, but when he attained enlightenment, the digits 8 and 4 were
instantly transmuted into the Great Mirror Wisdom and the Dharma?kaya
respectively, and the long line of zeros became meaningless. Thus, space
and time were wiped out in an instant (ksana).


The same website has the following too:

Taken loosely, it means 'many'. There is a sense of completion to it; i.e.,
that the number accounts for every kind of affliction and every kind of
corresponding wisdom. For each of the many various afflictions of mind,
there is a medicine, a corresponding teaching and practice.

More specifically, there are said to be 21,000 particular manifestations of
each of the Three Poisons (craving, aversion, dullness or greed, anger,
ignorance) and 21,000 manifestations of all three together.

http://84000.co/insights-from-a-teacher-an-interview-with-dilgo-yangsi-khyentse-rinpoche/

has a detailed explanation on almost the lines of the first above.

The first para of the second above is seconded by the following at

http://www.dharmanet.org/coursesM/Shin/JodoShinshu2.htm

Because Sakyamuni Buddha taught in a very personal manner, it is said that
he gave 84,000 messages during his lifetime. The number 84,000 is probably
arbitrary. However, it is meant to convey the idea that the Buddha
exhausted all the possible ways for humanity to reach enlightenment. The
number of paths is an expression of the universality of the Buddha-Dharma.
Within the 84,000 paths, one path is most suited to you. This is the
expression of the personal aspect of the Buddha-Dharma. In other words,
these 84,000 paths will allow everyone to become a Buddha. Taken together,
the 84,000 paths are what has is known as the Dharma; the Truth to which a
Buddha becomes Enlightened.

On Sun, Jun 19, 2016 at 6:41 AM, Ruth Satinsky Sieber <Ruth.Satinsky at unil.ch
> wrote:

> Dear Artur,
>
> I have researched the number 84,000 extensively and have never come across
> any explanation whatsoever of its meaning in Buddhist, Jaina or Brahmanical
> texts.
>
> However, on p. 3 fn11 of my article cited by Lubomir below, I mention the
> following:
>
> W. Randolf Kloetzli (personal communication, 13 December 2011) has
> speculated that the number 84,000
> could be ?derived from some formula for relating the seven planets to the
> twelve signs of the zodiac (7 . 12 =
> 84).? John Brockington (personal communication, 8 January 2012) has
> proposed that the number eighty-four
> represents the seven days of the week multiplied by the twelve months of
> the year. The number seven, he says, is
> prominent with the ?j?vikas, and important in the Iranian tradition, where
> one finds the concept of the week
> very strong. Walther Schubring 1935/1962/2000: 28 has stated: ?it should
> be remembered that the figure of
> eighty-four or either of its plurals frequently appear with the Jains and
> elsewhere where they only fail to give
> precise details for something founded on fact.?
>
>
> Whatever the case, I would not be inclined to see it as a numerical game.
>
>
> Ruth Satinsky
>
>
>
> Dear Lubomir,
>
> Thank you for the link. But - but I do not find in the paper the answer
> for the question --- why, ultimately, eighty-four?
>
> The inner structure of the number: 7 x 12
>
> Is it a result of some numerological game?
>
> Best,
>
> Artur
>
> 2016-06-18 22:51 GMT+02:00 Lubomir Ondracka <ondracka at ff.cuni.cz>:
>
>> Dear Artur,
>>
>> on the number 84 000 in Buddhist (and Jaina) sources, see this very
>> interesting study:
>> Ruth Satinsky, "What can the lifespans of ??abha, Bharata, ?rey??sa, and
>> Ara tell us about the History of the concept of Mount Meru?", International
>> Journal of Jaina Studies 11.1 (2015) 1-24.
>>
>> It is available on-line:
>> https://www.soas.ac.uk/research/publications/journals/ijjs/file100251.pdf
>>
>> Lubomir
>>
>>
>> On Sat, 18 Jun 2016 14:12:55 +0200
>> Artur Karp <karp at uw.edu.pl> wrote:
>>
>> > Dear List,
>> >
>> > *84 000*.
>> >
>> > The number appears in Buddhist texts, most intensively in the
>> > *Sudassana-sutta*, where it serves to contain in itself the final,
>> perfect,
>> > model shape of reality - in its various perceivable aspects .
>> >
>> > In the Buddhaghosa's *Sumangala-vilasini* Asoka plans to divide the
>> relics
>> > of the Buddha into 84 000 portions, to be placed in 84 000 stupas -
>> planned
>> > to be built throughout his kingdom.
>> >
>> > Is there somewhere in the Buddhist tradition a mention of the idea of
>> *human
>> > body* numbering 84 000 elements?
>> >
>> > Why 84 000? And not, for example - 100 000?
>> >
>> > Thanking you in advance,
>> >
>> > Artur Karp (ret.)
>> > Chair of South Asian Studies
>> > University of Warsaw
>> > Poland
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
> committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
> unsubscribe)
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
> committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
> unsubscribe)
>



-- 
Nagaraj Paturi

Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.

Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies

FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of  Liberal Education,

(Pune, Maharashtra, INDIA )


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From mmdesh at umich.edu  Sun Jun 19 05:10:45 2016
From: mmdesh at umich.edu (Madhav Deshpande)
Date: Sun, 19 Jun 16 10:40:45 +0530
Subject: [INDOLOGY] More fun with Pune
Message-ID: <CAB3-dzf5wo_-=qbQ_7LABpOW1m8EYBn3t8vRMxNyaTXK1wp-dw@mail.gmail.com>

More fun with Pune:

????????? ???????????? ???? ???????????? ???? ?
????? ????????????? ??????? ???????? ????? ?? ??
?????? ????????????? ????? ???? ????????????????? ??:
????? ??????????? ?????? ????? ???: ????????? ??

"Hey Best among Dogs, the ornament to your lane, don't unnecessarily feel
proud about yourself. All residents of Pune roar like lions at home. "No
one is like me in this city, and I am alone the learned." In this great
city with such loud roars, who is going to listen to you?"

-- 
Madhav M. Deshpande
Professor of Sanskrit and Linguistics
Department of Asian Languages and Cultures
202 South Thayer Street, Suite 6111
The University of Michigan
Ann Arbor, MI 48104-1608, USA


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From pf8 at soas.ac.uk  Sun Jun 19 09:10:01 2016
From: pf8 at soas.ac.uk (Peter Flugel)
Date: Sun, 19 Jun 16 10:10:01 +0100
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Transcoding
In-Reply-To: <D2A2BD41-0EA0-4D3C-9F58-1C3AF82BE394@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAF+JJrkenT6+ZqpihZ7+ZhY-o_T4R0wGdbykK9AaPOfp7Susbw@mail.gmail.com>

Dear Peter,

Thank you very much for pointing me to this valuable tool!

yours

Peter

On 18 June 2016 at 14:37, Peter Scharf <scharfpm7 at gmail.com> wrote:

> Dear Peter and others,
>
> The most convenient way to transform Sanskrit text from one encoding to
> another is to use the transcoding software developed by the Sanskrit
> Library.  This transcoding software can be used in one of two ways:
>
> 1. Strings of text of any length can be transcoded in toto by pasting them
> into the transcoding window on the web at:
> http://sanskritlibrary.org/transcodeText.html
> Simply select the input and output encodings from the two menus at the
> bottom of the page.
>
> 2. Download the transcoding software and install it locally on your own
> machine and run it under Unix and transcode from and two a great number of
> transcodings.  On a Mac or Linux system this is easy.  I don't know how to
> do it on a PC.  The downloaded software permits very sophisticated
> delineation of which strings to transcode within a document of mixed text.
> One can tag strings in a certain way, for example with specific start and
> end character strings or xml tags, and then transcode all strings with
> those tags in one way and all strings with another tag in another, e.g.
> transcode <s>kfzRa</s> to Devanagari and <r>kfzRa</r> to Roman.  Or one can
> select text within a document to transcode using regular expressions.  The
> software is available for download near the bottom of the alphabetical list
> of downloadable software on the Sanskrit Library downloads page:
> http://sanskritlibrary.org/downloads.html.  Look for TranscodeFile (Java
> program) <http://sanskritlibrary.org/software/transcodeFile.html>
>
> I have made a number of transcoding rules for my own use which I'm glad to
> share if you want help getting started.
> Yours,
> Peter
>
> *************************
> Peter M. Scharf
> scharfpm7 at gmail.com
> *************************
>
> On 18 Jun 2016, at 5:18 AM, Peter Flugel wrote:
>
> Dear Peter
>
> Thank you for this really interesting information.
>
> I have a question which you may be able to answer as well: what is the
> best way for transforming texts written in Nagari characters into roman
> script? I am trying to integrate two data bases.
>
> Yours
>
> Peter
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On 17 Jun 2016, at 20:28, Peter Scharf <scharfpm7 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Dear Indologists,
>
> I have just completed a comparison of the ligature formation produced by
> several Devanagari fonts and thought it might be useful to share the
> results of the comparison.  I compared 1260 ligatures formed by the LaTeX
> Skt package with seven Unicode fonts.  The ligatures compared were the
> combined set of all those listed by Ulrich Stiehl in his document, *Conjunct
> Consonants in Sanskrit*, Heidelberg, 21 April 2003, pp. 4--34, and those
> listed in the Skt package documentation *Sanskrit for LaTeX2e*, pp.
> 22--35.
>
> 1. LaTeX Skt package
> 2. Chandas
> 3. Uttara
> 4. Sanskrit2003
> 5. Praja
> 6. Arial Unicode MS
> 7. Devanagari MT
> 8. Mangal
>
> The LaTeX Skt package comes with the TeXLive installation available at
> https://www.tug.org/texlive/.  The Chandas and Uttara fonts were produced
> by produced by Mihail Bayaryn and are available at
> http://www.sanskritweb.net/cakram/.  The Sanskrit2003 font was produced
> by Ulrich Stiehl and is available at
> http://www.omkarananda-ashram.org/Sanskrit/itranslator2003.htm.  These
> fonts are all available free of cost.  Praja was produced by Peter Freund
> and is available for $35 at
> https://secure.bmtmicro.com/servlets/Orders.ShoppingCart?CID=5115&PRODUCTID=51150002.
> Arial Unicode MS is available with Microsoft Office, FrontPage and
> Publisher, with the installation of international support.  Devanagari MT
> is available with Mac systems with the Asian languages support.  Mangal is
> available with Windows systems with supplemental language support.
>
> The comparison showed that Chandas and Uttara are able to form all
> conjuncts correctly with the exception of seven sequences: *?k??va*,
> *?rvya*, *?hthya*, *d??a*, *ddbra*, *ddvra*, *l?la*, without the
> interruption of an inappropriate vir?ma.  The LaTeX Skt package handles all
> but 29.  Sanskrit 2003 lacked 80, Praja 187, Arial Unicode MS 201,
> Devanagari MT 232, and Mangal 236.  I also checked the behavior of the
> fonts in handling the accents in the Devanagari extended, and Vedic
> extenstions Unicode pages.  Only the Praja font handled them all properly,
> the LaTeX Skt package handles most Vedic accentuation, while most fonts
> handled only the common accentual system.  A test of Vedic accents with any
> font can be performed by visiting the Sanskrit Library's interactive Vedic
> Unicode character phonetic value table at
> http://sanskritlibrary.org/accents.html.  Simply set your browser to use
> the font you would like to test.
>
> The first five fonts listed are therefore commendable; the last three are
> inadequate for Sanskrit.  It would be desirable for Mihail Bayaryn and
> Ulrich Stiehl to upgrade their fonts, which otherwise handle conjuncts very
> comprehensively, to handle the Vedic characters in the two Unicode pages
> mentioned including in particular the combining candrabindu with semivowels
> *l*, *y*, and *v*.
>
> Other Indic fonts not tested are described on the University of Chicago's
> South Asia Language Resource Center page at
> http://salrc.uchicago.edu/resources/fonts/available/hindi/.
>
> Yours,
> Peter
>
> *************************
> Peter M. Scharf
> scharfpm7 at gmail.com
> *************************
>
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
> committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
> unsubscribe)
>
>
>


-- 
Dr Peter Fl?gel
Chair, Centre of Jaina Studies
Department of Religions and Philosophies
Faculty of Arts and Humanities
School of Oriental and African Studies
University of London
Thornhaugh Street
Russell Square
London WC1H OXG

Tel.: (+44-20) 7898 4776
E-mail: pf8 at soas.ac.uk
http://www.soas.ac.uk/jainastudies


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From mmdesh at umich.edu  Sun Jun 19 11:35:29 2016
From: mmdesh at umich.edu (Madhav Deshpande)
Date: Sun, 19 Jun 16 17:05:29 +0530
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Further fun on Pune
Message-ID: <CAB3-dzcyD2KHmXGh4GS-a4i+3RwY9r9VvAYYCzme6XDL0UN+vA@mail.gmail.com>

Further fun on Pune:

???????? ???????? ???? ?????? ???????????????: ?
?????? ?????????? ?????????? ???? ???? ??

"In every lane, on any day, it is possible to find speakers propounding
something, and listeners [to those speakers]."

? ??????? ?????? ??????? ?????? ??????? ?? ?
????? ??? ????????????????? ??????? ?????: ??

"No one ever worries about time or topic. Whatever the speaker says, the
president of the meeting rejects it entirely."

????? ?????? ??????: ????? ??????????????: ?
????? ????????? ????????? ???????? ? ?????? ??

"Everyone is clever, and everyone is learned in some branch. They all
praise, blame or adorn something."

? ?????????? ????????????????? ????? ??????? ?
???????? ?????? ?????????? ???????? ???????????? ??

"There appears to be nothing lacking in Pune. This holy city fulfills
desires of all."

????????? ???????? ??????????? ? ??? ??????? ?
??? ?????? ??? ?????????????????????? ??

"Whatever is found here, may be found elsewhere, but whatever is not found
here can never be found elsewhere. Such is the considered opinion of all
residents of Pune."

-- 
Madhav M. Deshpande
Professor of Sanskrit and Linguistics
Department of Asian Languages and Cultures
202 South Thayer Street, Suite 6111
The University of Michigan
Ann Arbor, MI 48104-1608, USA


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From christophe.vielle at uclouvain.be  Sun Jun 19 14:11:59 2016
From: christophe.vielle at uclouvain.be (Christophe Vielle)
Date: Sun, 19 Jun 16 16:11:59 +0200
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Jati as Caste in Nyaya?
In-Reply-To: <2FF76C35-A8D2-424D-83C3-4E5D0EB94E4A@unm.edu>
Message-ID: <CEAF34A1-3DE6-4A09-B167-36EF1D36F1AB@uclouvain.be>

See also the presentation of the problem of j?ti in the meya portion of the M?nameyodaya (2, 3 = j?ti, 1-18)
Kunhan Raja C.  & Suryanarayana Sastri S. S. 21975, M?nameyodaya of N?r?ya?a Bha??a and N?r?ya?a Pa??ita (an elementary treatise on the M?m??s?), Madras, Adyar Library Series 105,  pp. 233-244.

? p. 243 (17 - Bh???a conclusion):  "Thus is established 'Brahminness'. What apprehends it is the sense of sight itself assisted by the understanding of his being born of a Brahmin father and mother, whose Brahminness is not corrupted; hence it is not non-perceptible either"

Cf. also (recognized as one of the main sources of the M?nameyodaya) the earlier N?titattv?virbh?va of Cid?nanda (cf. ?d. P. K. Narayana Pillai 1953, N?titattv?virbh?va of Cid?nandapa??ita, Trivandrum, TSS 168 ; cf. republ. in K. T. Pandurangi 2008, Cid?nanda-pa??ita-viracita?, N?titattv?virbh?va?, M?m??s?bh??yapari?i??ena Tantrarahasyena ca sahita?, Bangalore), the 20th topic of which is J?tinir?aya, apparently more directed against the Buddhist views, without dealing with the problem of Brahminhood (abstract in Pandurangi 2008 pp. xvii-viii, EIPh 16, p. 114-15). 

I did not go into the provided ??likan?tha's text in details (and did not start to search into Prabh?kara's own commentatorial works where the original statements could be found), but from secondary sources, it appears that Bh???as and Pr?bh?karas differ here in the explanation. For both j?ti is a perceptible category, but the relation of  j?ti with individual is given as a combination of difference and non-difference for the former, whereas it is difference for the latter, according to whom the apposition (individual - universal) is through inherence. Pr?bh?karas admit the existence of genus/class of substance, but refuse to accept the existence of genus of quality and action. 
And according to Pr?bh?karas, differently from the case of cowness, Brahminhood or K?atriyahood are not considered as real j?ti:

? MM p. 239 (- 9): "Although the genus is thus established, the Guru [Prabh?kara] says that, since its cognition is invariably controlled by the knowledge of the earlier form, existence, soundness, Brahminness, etc. which have not that knowledge are non-existent".

So the debate referred to could be internal to Mimamsakas rather than between Mimamsakas and Buddhists.

Best wishes,

Christophe

Le 17 juin 2016 ? 20:00, John Taber <jataber at unm.edu> a ?crit :

> Dear Don et al.,
> 
> Since Christophe brought up M?m??s?: the relevant passage in Kum?rila is Tantrav?rttika ad MS 1.2.2. This is interpreted by Halbfass in the chapter of Tradition and Reflection mentioned by Sam Wright. (I look forward to reading his forthcoming article in JIP.)
> 
> The issue for Kum?rila is mainly the perceptibility of universals, as H. explains. The var?as pose a sort of test case. It's not at all clear that one can just SEE that someone is a brahmin. K. argues that, even though various factors may be required to stimulate perception of a universal - in the case of Brahminhood, for instance, being told the person's lineage - it is perceptible nonetheless. Cf. ?lokav?rttika Vanav?da 26-29, where the problem is discussed in more general terms; other problematic cases are mentioned there (e.g., how does one perceive gheeness in melted ghee? - by smelling or tasting it!). Some universals may be more difficult to perceive than others, but even if one has to climb to the top of a mountain in order to see something (presumably something very far away), that does not make it not perceptible (na hi yad giri???gam ?ruhya g?hyate tad apratyak?am, TV 1.2.2).
> 
> There may be certain cultural prejudices in the background of Kum?rila's discussion (here I'm thinking of what Dominik wrote and some of the things Halbfass says: Brahminhood is determined by a universal, not by conduct; it is inherent in someone; there's certainly no social mobility here!), but ultimately I think he is concerned to defend the notion that real (eternal) universals, which are perceptible, as opposed to the pseudo-universals of the Buddhists (apohas), are the meanings of words. Since the universal cowness is perceptible, we can SEE that that is the meaning of the word "cow" when someone points to a cow and says, "That is called a cow." Otherwise, it is not clear how the connected between word and meaning could ever be established.
> 
> Cheers again,
> JT
> 
> 
> On Jun 17, 2016, at 7:08 AM, Christophe Vielle <christophe.vielle at uclouvain.be> wrote:
> 
>> Dear Don,
>> 
>> The problem is also epistemologically discussed by the Prabhakara-mimamsaka ??likan?tha in the Prakara?apa?cik?, prakara?a 4 : J?tinir?aya
>> 
>>  See short abstract of this chapter in
>> 
>> Potter K. H. ?d. 2014, Philosophy of P?rva-M?m??s?, Delhi, Encyclopedia of Indian Philosophies 16, pp. 308-309 (relying on Verpoorten and Pandurangi)
>> 
>> The 1961 Benares edition of the PP is available here :
>> 
>> http://www.new.dli.ernet.in/handle/2015/383225
>> 
>> (better scan than :
>> 
>> http://www.dli.ernet.in/handle/2015/541509
>> 
>> http://www.dli.ernet.in/handle/2015/311115  )
>> 
>> Here below an extract of the Sansknet input on GRETIL
>> 
>> http://gretil.sub.uni-goettingen.de/gretil/1_sanskr/6_sastra/3_phil/mimamsa/prakp04u.htm 
>> 
>> (?)
>> 
>> tad idam apahastitam, yad ?hu? 
>> 
>> "?abdatvam eva tattadas?dh?ra??bhivya?jakadhvaninibandhanatay? n?n?var?ape?a vi?ay?bhavat tasya tasy?rthasy?vagam?ya kalpata" iti /
>> 
>> br?hma?atv?dij?tinir?kara?am /
>> 
>> anayaiva ca di?? br?hma?atv?dij?tir api niv?rit? /
>> 
>> nahi n?n?str?puru?avyakti?u puru?atv?darth?ntarabh?tamekam?k?ram?tmas?tkurv?nt? matir?virbhavati /
>> 
>> nahi k?atriy?dibhyo vy?vartam?na? sakalabr?hma?e?vanuvartam?namekam?k?ramaticiramanusandadhato 'pi budhyante /
>> 
>> yadapy?hu?- yadyapy?p?tasa?j?tay? dhiy? br?hma?ya? n?vas?yate, tath?pi br?hma?abh?tam?t?pit?sambandh?nusandh?naprabhav?y?? banddhau taccak?st?ti /
>> 
>> tadapi ca svam?nasavisa?v?di /
>> 
>> anusandadh?no 'pi m?t?pit?sambandha? ko j?tvekam?k?ramavaboddhu? prabhavati /
>> 
>> yaccopadar?itam---yath? vil?nam?jya? tail?davyatiricyam?na? gandhagraha?asahak?ri?? cak?u?aiva bhinnamavagamtaya---iti /
>> 
>> tadapi na sundaram /
>> 
>> nahi tad?n?? c?k?u?asya sa?vedanasya vi?ay?tireka?, kintvanum?nameva tatra sarpi?a? /
>> 
>> yastu nipu?adar?o s?k?mamapi r?pam?k?itu? k?ama?, sa cak?u?aiv?jyaj?timapi pratyeti, na gandhagraha?amapek?ate /
>> 
>> nanveva? bahvavah?nam, ki?nibandhano hi tad?n?m?havan?y?dis?dhyakarmasu ke???cidadhik?ro n?nye??m; ki?nibandhan? ca br?hma?a?abdasya prav?ttivyavasth? iti /
>> 
>> atrocyate /
>> 
>> an?dau sa?s?re janyajanakabh?vena vyavasthit?st?vat k??cideva str?puru?asantataya? santi, t?s?m anyonyavyatikare?a j?t?? str?pu?savyaktayo br?hma?a?abdav?cy?? /
>> 
>> anidamprathamatay? ca santate? sarve??? tatsantatipatitatv?t siddh? br?hma?a?abdav?cyat? /
>> 
>> tena santativi?e?aprabhavatvameva br?hma?a?abdaprav?tt?v up?dhi? /
>> 
>> tatprabhav?n?meva karmasvadhik?ra iti na ki?cidavah?nam /
>> 
>> ke punaste santativi?e??? /
>> 
>> na te pariga?ayya nirde??u? ?akyante, kintu lokata eva prasiddh?? pratyetavy?? /
>> 
>> tath? ca tajjanyatve 'vagate br?hma?a?abda? prayu?jate lok?? /
>> 
>> (?)
>> 
>> Best wishes,
>> 
>> Christophe
>> 
>> Le 16 juin 2016 ? 20:41, Donald R Davis <drdj at austin.utexas.edu> a ?crit :
>> 
>>> My thanks to Sam Wright who pointed me to the following:
>>> 
>>> Wilhelm Halbfass, ?Homo Hierarchicus: The Conceptualization of the Varna System in Indian Thought,? in Tradition and Reflecton. SUNY Press, 1991. [contains a long discussion of the jati as caste and as universal in the works of several authors, including Jayanta and, especially, Kumarila on pp. 363ff.]
>>> 
>>> Samuel Wright, "History in the Abstract: ?Brahman-ness? and the Discipline of Nyaya in Seventeenth-Century Varanasi.? Journal of Indian Philosophy, forthcoming. 
>>> 
>>> The issue is discussed on page 204 in Sukla, S. N. (Ed.). (1971). Nya?yama?jari? of Jayanta Bhat?t?a (Part I). The Kashi Sanskrit Series 106, Nyaya Section No. 15. Varanasi: Chowkhamba Sanskrit Series Office.
>>> 
>>> Best, Don
>>> 
>>> From: INDOLOGY <indology-bounces at list.indology.info> on behalf of Johannes Bronkhorst <johannes.bronkhorst at unil.ch>
>>> Date: Thursday, June 16, 2016 at 11:40 AM
>>> To: rajam <rajam at earthlink.net>
>>> Cc: Dominik Wujastyk <wujastyk at gmail.com>, "indology at list.indology.info" <indology at list.indology.info>
>>> Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] J?ti as Caste in Ny?ya?
>>> 
>>> Vincent Eltschinger?s ? Caste ? et philosophie bouddhique (Vienna 2000) seems relevant in this connection. An English version of this book is also available:
>>> 
>>> Caste and Buddhist Philosophy: Continuity of Some Buddhist Arguments Against the Realist Interpretation of Social Denominations (Motilal Banarsidass 2012)
>>> 
>>> Johannes
>>> 
>>>> On 16 juin 2016, at 18:37, rajam <rajam at earthlink.net> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> Many thanks to the originator of this thread!
>>>> 
>>>> Right now, I just want to register the fact that I?m very much interested in this topic.
>>>> 
>>>> Last year (May 2015), I had a publication (in Tamil) about references to, or a lack there of, ?j?ti? and ?caste? (as we understand it today) in Old Tamil literature/grammar, also known as Sangam literature/grammar.
>>>> 
>>>> I don?t know how many of you are aware of the fact that the English word ?caste? has its origin in the Portuguese word ?casta,? which was first recorded in Arte da Lingua Malabar written by Fr. Henrique Henriques in the mid-16th century. 
>>>> 
>>>> If one wants to dig deep into the understanding of the terms such as ?j?ti? and ?caste? ? one has to have a minimal understanding of the origins of the Western contact with India, which happened in the early 16-th century through Portuguese arrival in South India.
>>>> 
>>>> Thanks and regards,
>>>> V.S.Rajam
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>> On Jun 16, 2016, at 8:53 AM, Dominik Wujastyk <wujastyk at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> ?Dear Don,
>>>>> 
>>>>> This interests me a lot, and I'd be grateful to read what you might write about it in future.  It's on my back-burner, but I've long wondered whether Sanskritic narratives about jati and varna can be thought about in ways similar to eighteenth and nineteenth century European narratives about races and species.  Were people of different varnas formally considered to be of different "species?"   It's a bit shocking to think in these terms, but I've been wondering about it.  If you ever put flesh on these bones, one way or another, or can point me to existing discussions on this, I'd be really interested.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Best,
>>>>> Dominik
>>>>> 
>>>>> --
>>>>> Professor Dominik Wujastyk*
>>>>> Singhmar Chair in Classical Indian Society and Polity
>>>>> Department of History and Classics
>>>>> University of Alberta, Canada
>>>>> 
>>>>> On 16 June 2016 at 08:53, Donald R Davis <drdj at austin.utexas.edu> wrote:
>>>>> Dear Colleagues,
>>>>> 
>>>>> I would be grateful for additional references to an argument mentioned in Jayanta Bhatta?s ?gama?ambara 4.143-4 (in Dezso?s edition in the Clay series).  The question is whether the j?ti of Brahmins, etc. is like the j?ti of cow-ness, etc. in being empirically observable or directly perceivable.  Jayanta refers to those who say that verbal/textual testimony alone (?abdam?tre?a) establishes the four-var?a system.  This prefigures an argument made in Vij??ne?vara?s Mit?k?ar? (on Yaj 1.90) where the same distinction is drawn to refute an objection.
>>>>> 
>>>>> I assumed Jayanta would have made a similar argument in his Ny?yama?jar?, but I have not been able to locate it (probably because I barely know the Ny?ya literature).  If anyone could point me toward other instances of this issue, whether in original sources or contemporary research, I?d appreciate it.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Best,
>>>>> 
>>>>> Don Davis
>>>>> Dept of Asian Studies
>>>>> University of Texas at Austin
>>>>> 
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>>>>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>>>>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee)
>>>>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe)
>>>>> 
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>>>>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>>>>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee)
>>>>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe)
>>>> 
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>>>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>>>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee)
>>>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe)
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee)
>>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe)
>> 
>> ???????????????????
>> Christophe Vielle
>> Louvain-la-Neuve
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee)
>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe)
> 

???????????????????
Christophe Vielle
Louvain-la-Neuve



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From caf57 at cam.ac.uk  Sun Jun 19 17:51:25 2016
From: caf57 at cam.ac.uk (C.A. Formigatti)
Date: Sun, 19 Jun 16 18:51:25 +0100
Subject: [INDOLOGY] ISO transliteration standard for devanagari (Harry	Spier)
In-Reply-To: <mailman.34.1466352008.430.indology_list.indology.info@list.indology.info>
Message-ID: <49938de0e800c7a0704dc0c84a2cf0d2@cam.ac.uk>

Dear Harry,

I do not see any problem in this rule, I actually find it useful and 
logical. I personally still use the IAST system simply because I haven't 
got enough time yet to read thoroughly the ISO-15919 rules, but this has 
nothing to do with the problem of transcribing manuscripts. I would use 
the ISO-15919 transliteration system only when I edit a text. Preparing 
a diplomatic transliteration of a manuscript is something different, I 
would never normalize the use of class nasal or anusvara when 
transliterating a manuscript, regardless of this rule.

Personally, I believe that for a diplomatic transcription one ought to 
reproduce the manuscript as it is, with all orthographic peculiarities 
and all blunders. For instance, if you are adding avagrahas even if they 
don't appear in the manuscript, strictly speaking you are not preparing 
a diplomatic transcription. In this case, you can simply state at the 
beginning of your transliteration that you normalize the use of class 
nasals and anusvaras according to the ISO-15919.

Moreover, when I transliterate any Brahmi-based script, I know that I am 
interpreting the text to some extent for good or bad, for even in a 
diplomatic transcription I do not try to reproduce the effect of the 
scriptio continua. This is a contradiction to what I have just written, 
but alas, working with manuscripts is still a challenge for me even 
after years of cataloging.

Best wishes,

Camillo


I have just been going through the ISO standard for transliteration of 
Devanagari and related Indic scripts ISO-15919 and I found something 
quite surpriseing.

Note the following rule quoted exactly  from the standard is a 
requirement not an option. The rule includes an example from Sanskrit.
---------------------

8.1 Special requirements
Rule 3.
a)

In modern vernaculars, anusvara before a stop or class nasal shall be 
transliterated as the corresponding class nasal; in other languages, 
anusvara before a stop or class nasal shall be transliterated as 
thecorresponding class nasal unless it arises from sandhi (euphonic 
combination) of final m with that consonant.

EXAMPLE 1 Sanskrit ??? is transliterated as sa?ga when it represents the 
noun formed from sam + root gam, but as sa?ga when it represents the 
noun derived from the root sa?j
------------------------------

That means in many cases  if you transliterated a manuscript exactly as 
it was keeping all anusvaras as anusvaras you would not be following the 
ISO standard for transliteration.  It also seems to me the standard is 
crossing the line from transliteration into "interpretation".

I'm somewhat surprised this found its way into the standard.

Harry Spier
.





From hspier.muktabodha at gmail.com  Sun Jun 19 18:40:32 2016
From: hspier.muktabodha at gmail.com (Harry Spier)
Date: Sun, 19 Jun 16 14:40:32 -0400
Subject: [INDOLOGY] ISO transliteration standard for devanagari (Harry	Spier)
In-Reply-To: <49938de0e800c7a0704dc0c84a2cf0d2@cam.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <CAPW7aQGNbNsMcsoP8JFP-DPr989JZ5Aw0KUH=v3XdJyibSVpQA@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Jun 19, 2016 at 1:51 PM, C.A. Formigatti <caf57 at cam.ac.uk> wrote:
. . .

> . I would use the ISO-15919 transliteration system only when I edit a
> text. Preparing a diplomatic transliteration of a manuscript is something
> different,
>
Harry Spier wrote:
To my mind the problem is that if you can't use a transliteration standard
to prepare a diplomatic transliteration then there is something wrong with
that transliteration standard.  Surely thats the purpose of a
transliteration standard. Note that the  rule for normalizing anusvaras to
class nasals is a "required rule" and not a recommendation or option.  As
you pointed out the normalization of nasals is bad practice for editing
manuscripts.  The normalization of nasals  was pointed out as a problem in
editing manuscripts about 20 years ago on this list:
see
http://list.indology.info/pipermail/indology_list.indology.info/1996-February/004161.html
But by making the normalization of nasals a required practice for sanskrit
the standard is saying this is good practice.

Thanks,
Harry Spier




> I have just been going through the ISO standard for transliteration of
> Devanagari and related Indic scripts ISO-15919 and I found something quite
> surpriseing.
>
> Note the following rule quoted exactly  from the standard is a requirement
> not an option. The rule includes an example from Sanskrit.
> ---------------------
>
> 8.1 Special requirements
> Rule 3.
> a)
>
> In modern vernaculars, anusvara before a stop or class nasal shall be
> transliterated as the corresponding class nasal; in other languages,
> anusvara before a stop or class nasal shall be transliterated as
> thecorresponding class nasal unless it arises from sandhi (euphonic
> combination) of final m with that consonant.
>
> EXAMPLE 1 Sanskrit ??? is transliterated as sa?ga when it represents the
> noun formed from sam + root gam, but as sa?ga when it represents the noun
> derived from the root sa?j
> ------------------------------
>
> That means in many cases  if you transliterated a manuscript exactly as it
> was keeping all anusvaras as anusvaras you would not be following the ISO
> standard for transliteration.  It also seems to me the standard is crossing
> the line from transliteration into "interpretation".
>
> I'm somewhat surprised this found its way into the standard.
>
> Harry Spier
> .
>
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
> committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
> unsubscribe)


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From hspier.muktabodha at gmail.com  Sun Jun 19 19:37:14 2016
From: hspier.muktabodha at gmail.com (Harry Spier)
Date: Sun, 19 Jun 16 15:37:14 -0400
Subject: [INDOLOGY] CORRECTION Re: ISO transliteration standard for devanagari (Harry Spier)
Message-ID: <CAPW7aQGnn+yb-V-MWwXRA-CpcyzVFfW=L0PM+OKFKAc4SsCQ8Q@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Jun 19, 2016 at 1:51 PM, C.A. Formigatti <caf57 at cam.ac.uk> wrote: I
would use the ISO-15919 transliteration system only when I edit a text.
Preparing a diplomatic transliteration of a manuscript is something
different,

Harry Spier wrote:

To my mind the problem is that if you can't use a transliteration standard
to prepare a diplomatic transliteration then there is something wrong with
that transliteration standard.  Surely thats the purpose of a
transliteration standard. Note that the  rule for normalizing anusvaras to
class nasals is a "required rule" and not a recommendation or option.  As
you pointed out the normalization of nasals is bad practice for
transcribing manuscripts.  The normalization of nasals  was pointed out as
a problem in editing manuscripts about 20 years ago on this list:

see
http://list.indology.info/pipermail/indology_list.indology.info/1996-February/004161.html

But by making the normalization of nasals a required practice for sanskrit
the standard is saying this is good practice.


Thanks,

Harry Spier







I have just been going through the ISO standard for transliteration of
Devanagari and related Indic scripts ISO-15919 and I found something quite
surpriseing.

Note the following rule quoted exactly  from the standard is a requirement
not an option. The rule includes an example from Sanskrit.
---------------------

8.1 Special requirements
Rule 3.
a)

In modern vernaculars, anusvara before a stop or class nasal shall be
transliterated as the corresponding class nasal; in other languages,
anusvara before a stop or class nasal shall be transliterated as
thecorresponding class nasal unless it arises from sandhi (euphonic
combination) of final m with that consonant.

EXAMPLE 1 Sanskrit ??? is transliterated as sa?ga when it represents the
noun formed from sam + root gam, but as sa?ga when it represents the noun
derived from the root sa?j
------------------------------

That means in many cases  if you transliterated a manuscript exactly as it
was keeping all anusvaras as anusvaras you would not be following the ISO
standard for transliteration.  It also seems to me the standard is crossing
the line from transliteration into "interpretation".

I'm somewhat surprised this found its way into the standard.

Harry Spier
.

_______________________________________________
INDOLOGY mailing list
INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
committee)
http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
unsubscribe)


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From wujastyk at gmail.com  Sun Jun 19 22:08:44 2016
From: wujastyk at gmail.com (Dominik Wujastyk)
Date: Sun, 19 Jun 16 16:08:44 -0600
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Devanagari font adequacy
In-Reply-To: <CAATk=rBwrJ70vS8eMrz=zijxRjRwnwrmAAyUsvcXQkJn71HhpA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAKdt-CctUoWqDkUJtn_Cqpv1qe3Md3oY9qExrHmW+FPW-YpnRg@mail.gmail.com>

Another font to take seriously is the new Murty Hindi
<http://www.murtylibrary.com/mcli-fonts.php>, which is pretty good for Skt
too.   It's a font that, to my eye, looks a lot better on paper than on the
screen.

Nota bene also an interesting new Devanagari font created  by Alessandro
Graheli, that can be seen in his recent publication *History and
Transmission of the Ny?yama?jar?. Critical Edition of the Section on the
Spho?a *
(Vienna: ??
Verlag der ?sterreichischen Akademie der Wissenschaften, 2015
<http://www.ikga.oeaw.ac.at/Mitarbeiter/Graheli>
?) <http://www.ikga.oeaw.ac.at/Mitarbeiter/Graheli>?.  Alessandro has been
strongly influenced by his long experience with Sanskrit manuscripts, and
his font reflects the influence of scribal traditions, for example the
interrupted ak?ara-by-ak?ara m?tr? line.  It's subtle.

Best,
Dominik




--
Professor Dominik Wujastyk* <http://ualberta.Academia.edu/DominikWujastyk>
Singhmar Chair in Classical Indian Society and Polity
Department of History and Classics <http://historyandclassics.ualberta.ca/>
University of Alberta, Canada

On 18 June 2016 at 22:31, Nityanand Misra <nmisra at gmail.com> wrote:

> Dear Prof. Scharf
>
> Are the .tex files available for reference? Would be helpful to use them.
> Some of the conjuncts in Ulrich Stiehl's list are absent in Sanskrit. For
> example ??? (conjunct # 572 in Stiehl's list) would be impossible in
> Sanskrit due to ???? ??? ???.
>
> As for the five recommended fonts, how many have bold, bold italic, and
> italic weights? I know that Chandas, Sanskrit 2003, (and most probably
> Uttara too) have only one weight. It is impractical to typeset a book in a
> single weight. One can resort to AutoFakeBold and AutoFakeSlant options in
> LaTeX but the result would be unprofessional. Another thing is that fonts
> like Chandas are good for screen, but when printed they look synthetic. The
> two strokes in ? of Chandas are both straight lines, looks very unnatural.
>
> The font I have settled for with use in LaTeX is Chanakya Sanskrit by
> Summit Information Technology Pvt Ltd based in Gurgaon. This is the
> extension of the legacy Chanakya font that is used by all standard Indian
> publishers like Gita Press. Beautiful, artistic, and with four weights. It
> is expensive to buy, but worth the money if one wants to use the fonts to
> publish books. Sample pages of a book I recently designed and typeset in
> XeLaTeX using Chanakya Pro (Chanakya Sanskrit is a superset of Chanakya
> Pro) are attached.
>
> PS: Chanakya Pro and Chanakya Sanskrit are both without Vedic accents.
> This is a limitation.
>
> PPS: I stopped using skt package long ago, since XeLaTeX allows direct
> Unicode input. For four years now I have used XeLaTeX with polyglossia to
> typeset books in Sanskrit and Hindi.
>
> Thanks, Nityanand
>
> On 18 June 2016 at 00:58, Peter Scharf <scharfpm7 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Dear Indologists,
>>
>> I have just completed a comparison of the ligature formation produced by
>> several Devanagari fonts and thought it might be useful to share the
>> results of the comparison.  I compared 1260 ligatures formed by the LaTeX
>> Skt package with seven Unicode fonts.  The ligatures compared were the
>> combined set of all those listed by Ulrich Stiehl in his document, *Conjunct
>> Consonants in Sanskrit*, Heidelberg, 21 April 2003, pp. 4--34, and those
>> listed in the Skt package documentation *Sanskrit for LaTeX2e*, pp.
>> 22--35.
>>
>> 1. LaTeX Skt package
>> 2. Chandas
>> 3. Uttara
>> 4. Sanskrit2003
>> 5. Praja
>> 6. Arial Unicode MS
>> 7. Devanagari MT
>> 8. Mangal
>>
>> The LaTeX Skt package comes with the TeXLive installation available at
>> https://www.tug.org/texlive/.  The Chandas and Uttara fonts were
>> produced by produced by Mihail Bayaryn and are available at
>> http://www.sanskritweb.net/cakram/.  The Sanskrit2003 font was produced
>> by Ulrich Stiehl and is available at
>> http://www.omkarananda-ashram.org/Sanskrit/itranslator2003.htm.  These
>> fonts are all available free of cost.  Praja was produced by Peter Freund
>> and is available for $35 at
>> https://secure.bmtmicro.com/servlets/Orders.ShoppingCart?CID=5115&PRODUCTID=51150002.
>> Arial Unicode MS is available with Microsoft Office, FrontPage and
>> Publisher, with the installation of international support.  Devanagari MT
>> is available with Mac systems with the Asian languages support.  Mangal is
>> available with Windows systems with supplemental language support.
>>
>> The comparison showed that Chandas and Uttara are able to form all
>> conjuncts correctly with the exception of seven sequences: *?k??va*,
>> *?rvya*, *?hthya*, *d??a*, *ddbra*, *ddvra*, *l?la*, without the
>> interruption of an inappropriate vir?ma.  The LaTeX Skt package handles all
>> but 29.  Sanskrit 2003 lacked 80, Praja 187, Arial Unicode MS 201,
>> Devanagari MT 232, and Mangal 236.  I also checked the behavior of the
>> fonts in handling the accents in the Devanagari extended, and Vedic
>> extenstions Unicode pages.  Only the Praja font handled them all properly,
>> the LaTeX Skt package handles most Vedic accentuation, while most fonts
>> handled only the common accentual system.  A test of Vedic accents with any
>> font can be performed by visiting the Sanskrit Library's interactive Vedic
>> Unicode character phonetic value table at
>> http://sanskritlibrary.org/accents.html.  Simply set your browser to use
>> the font you would like to test.
>>
>> The first five fonts listed are therefore commendable; the last three are
>> inadequate for Sanskrit.  It would be desirable for Mihail Bayaryn and
>> Ulrich Stiehl to upgrade their fonts, which otherwise handle conjuncts very
>> comprehensively, to handle the Vedic characters in the two Unicode pages
>> mentioned including in particular the combining candrabindu with semivowels
>> *l*, *y*, and *v*.
>>
>> Other Indic fonts not tested are described on the University of Chicago's
>> South Asia Language Resource Center page at
>> http://salrc.uchicago.edu/resources/fonts/available/hindi/.
>>
>> Yours,
>> Peter
>>
>> *************************
>> Peter M. Scharf
>> scharfpm7 at gmail.com
>> *************************
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
>> committee)
>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
>> unsubscribe)
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Nity?nanda Mi?ra
> http://nmisra.googlepages.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
> committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
> unsubscribe)
>


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From wujastyk at gmail.com  Sun Jun 19 22:59:16 2016
From: wujastyk at gmail.com (Dominik Wujastyk)
Date: Sun, 19 Jun 16 16:59:16 -0600
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Devanagari font adequacy
In-Reply-To: <CAKdt-CctUoWqDkUJtn_Cqpv1qe3Md3oY9qExrHmW+FPW-YpnRg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAKdt-CcQGsgv8VCuR0ZtTXt6+eHuXSdH1+DdcuiWT9TVmP723Q@mail.gmail.com>

The issues of fonts, font-layout, Harfbuzz, ICU and whatnot is all well
described by Behdad Esfahbod here:

   - http://behdad.org/text

Since 2013, XeTeX has had HarfBuzz and Graphite2 and Core Text rendering
engines built into it <http://www.khaledhosny.org/node/198>, thanks to the
fine work of Khaled Hosny.

Best,
Dominik


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From nmisra at gmail.com  Mon Jun 20 05:52:44 2016
From: nmisra at gmail.com (Nityanand Misra)
Date: Mon, 20 Jun 16 11:22:44 +0530
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Devanagari font adequacy
In-Reply-To: <CAKdt-CctUoWqDkUJtn_Cqpv1qe3Md3oY9qExrHmW+FPW-YpnRg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAATk=rA0-Y+UX=U2cWNOso5dkvq_wTKm=YNJZw-OhrmuT_ryTQ@mail.gmail.com>

The last I checked Murty Hindi was also single weight (no boldface, italic
or bold italic). Has that changed?

Plus you cannot use it for publishing a book (as it would be commercial
use) without permission.

On 20 June 2016 at 03:38, Dominik Wujastyk <wujastyk at gmail.com> wrote:

> Another font to take seriously is the new Murty Hindi
> <http://www.murtylibrary.com/mcli-fonts.php>, which is pretty good for
> Skt too.   It's a font that, to my eye, looks a lot better on paper than on
> the screen.
>
> Nota bene also an interesting new Devanagari font created  by Alessandro
> Graheli, that can be seen in his recent publication *History and
> Transmission of the Ny?yama?jar?. Critical Edition of the Section on the
> Spho?a *
> (Vienna: ??
> Verlag der ?sterreichischen Akademie der Wissenschaften, 2015
> <http://www.ikga.oeaw.ac.at/Mitarbeiter/Graheli>
> ?) <http://www.ikga.oeaw.ac.at/Mitarbeiter/Graheli>?.  Alessandro has
> been strongly influenced by his long experience with Sanskrit manuscripts,
> and his font reflects the influence of scribal traditions, for example the
> interrupted ak?ara-by-ak?ara m?tr? line.  It's subtle.
>
> Best,
> Dominik
>
>
>
>
> --
> Professor Dominik Wujastyk* <http://ualberta.Academia.edu/DominikWujastyk>
> Singhmar Chair in Classical Indian Society and Polity
> Department of History and Classics
> <http://historyandclassics.ualberta.ca/>
> University of Alberta, Canada
>
> On 18 June 2016 at 22:31, Nityanand Misra <nmisra at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Dear Prof. Scharf
>>
>> Are the .tex files available for reference? Would be helpful to use them.
>> Some of the conjuncts in Ulrich Stiehl's list are absent in Sanskrit. For
>> example ??? (conjunct # 572 in Stiehl's list) would be impossible in
>> Sanskrit due to ???? ??? ???.
>>
>> As for the five recommended fonts, how many have bold, bold italic, and
>> italic weights? I know that Chandas, Sanskrit 2003, (and most probably
>> Uttara too) have only one weight. It is impractical to typeset a book in a
>> single weight. One can resort to AutoFakeBold and AutoFakeSlant options in
>> LaTeX but the result would be unprofessional. Another thing is that fonts
>> like Chandas are good for screen, but when printed they look synthetic. The
>> two strokes in ? of Chandas are both straight lines, looks very unnatural.
>>
>> The font I have settled for with use in LaTeX is Chanakya Sanskrit by
>> Summit Information Technology Pvt Ltd based in Gurgaon. This is the
>> extension of the legacy Chanakya font that is used by all standard Indian
>> publishers like Gita Press. Beautiful, artistic, and with four weights. It
>> is expensive to buy, but worth the money if one wants to use the fonts to
>> publish books. Sample pages of a book I recently designed and typeset in
>> XeLaTeX using Chanakya Pro (Chanakya Sanskrit is a superset of Chanakya
>> Pro) are attached.
>>
>> PS: Chanakya Pro and Chanakya Sanskrit are both without Vedic accents.
>> This is a limitation.
>>
>> PPS: I stopped using skt package long ago, since XeLaTeX allows direct
>> Unicode input. For four years now I have used XeLaTeX with polyglossia to
>> typeset books in Sanskrit and Hindi.
>>
>> Thanks, Nityanand
>>
>> On 18 June 2016 at 00:58, Peter Scharf <scharfpm7 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Dear Indologists,
>>>
>>> I have just completed a comparison of the ligature formation produced by
>>> several Devanagari fonts and thought it might be useful to share the
>>> results of the comparison.  I compared 1260 ligatures formed by the LaTeX
>>> Skt package with seven Unicode fonts.  The ligatures compared were the
>>> combined set of all those listed by Ulrich Stiehl in his document, *Conjunct
>>> Consonants in Sanskrit*, Heidelberg, 21 April 2003, pp. 4--34, and
>>> those listed in the Skt package documentation *Sanskrit for LaTeX2e*,
>>> pp. 22--35.
>>>
>>> 1. LaTeX Skt package
>>> 2. Chandas
>>> 3. Uttara
>>> 4. Sanskrit2003
>>> 5. Praja
>>> 6. Arial Unicode MS
>>> 7. Devanagari MT
>>> 8. Mangal
>>>
>>> The LaTeX Skt package comes with the TeXLive installation available at
>>> https://www.tug.org/texlive/.  The Chandas and Uttara fonts were
>>> produced by produced by Mihail Bayaryn and are available at
>>> http://www.sanskritweb.net/cakram/.  The Sanskrit2003 font was produced
>>> by Ulrich Stiehl and is available at
>>> http://www.omkarananda-ashram.org/Sanskrit/itranslator2003.htm.  These
>>> fonts are all available free of cost.  Praja was produced by Peter Freund
>>> and is available for $35 at
>>> https://secure.bmtmicro.com/servlets/Orders.ShoppingCart?CID=5115&PRODUCTID=51150002.
>>> Arial Unicode MS is available with Microsoft Office, FrontPage and
>>> Publisher, with the installation of international support.  Devanagari MT
>>> is available with Mac systems with the Asian languages support.  Mangal is
>>> available with Windows systems with supplemental language support.
>>>
>>> The comparison showed that Chandas and Uttara are able to form all
>>> conjuncts correctly with the exception of seven sequences: *?k??va*,
>>> *?rvya*, *?hthya*, *d??a*, *ddbra*, *ddvra*, *l?la*, without the
>>> interruption of an inappropriate vir?ma.  The LaTeX Skt package handles all
>>> but 29.  Sanskrit 2003 lacked 80, Praja 187, Arial Unicode MS 201,
>>> Devanagari MT 232, and Mangal 236.  I also checked the behavior of the
>>> fonts in handling the accents in the Devanagari extended, and Vedic
>>> extenstions Unicode pages.  Only the Praja font handled them all properly,
>>> the LaTeX Skt package handles most Vedic accentuation, while most fonts
>>> handled only the common accentual system.  A test of Vedic accents with any
>>> font can be performed by visiting the Sanskrit Library's interactive Vedic
>>> Unicode character phonetic value table at
>>> http://sanskritlibrary.org/accents.html.  Simply set your browser to
>>> use the font you would like to test.
>>>
>>> The first five fonts listed are therefore commendable; the last three
>>> are inadequate for Sanskrit.  It would be desirable for Mihail Bayaryn and
>>> Ulrich Stiehl to upgrade their fonts, which otherwise handle conjuncts very
>>> comprehensively, to handle the Vedic characters in the two Unicode pages
>>> mentioned including in particular the combining candrabindu with semivowels
>>> *l*, *y*, and *v*.
>>>
>>> Other Indic fonts not tested are described on the University of
>>> Chicago's South Asia Language Resource Center page at
>>> http://salrc.uchicago.edu/resources/fonts/available/hindi/.
>>>
>>> Yours,
>>> Peter
>>>
>>> *************************
>>> Peter M. Scharf
>>> scharfpm7 at gmail.com
>>> *************************
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
>>> committee)
>>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options
>>> or unsubscribe)
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Nity?nanda Mi?ra
>> http://nmisra.googlepages.com
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
>> committee)
>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
>> unsubscribe)
>>
>
>


-- 
Nity?nanda Mi?ra
http://nmisra.googlepages.com


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From nmisra at gmail.com  Mon Jun 20 05:58:24 2016
From: nmisra at gmail.com (Nityanand Misra)
Date: Mon, 20 Jun 16 11:28:24 +0530
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Devanagari font adequacy
In-Reply-To: <CAATk=rA0-Y+UX=U2cWNOso5dkvq_wTKm=YNJZw-OhrmuT_ryTQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAATk=rD-15WS3yw4CEtcLrVf4w0fAxdUNy+wOkeDcoavZODAhQ@mail.gmail.com>

Just checked, and the file available for download (Murty-Hindi-1.01.zip)
has only one OTF file (Murty-Hindi-1.01.otf).

For quality publishing, at least boldface and normal are needed, italic and
bold italic further add value. A single weight is just not enough for a
good book typeset in Devanagari (think of Nirnay Sagar Press and Gita Press
books).


On 20 June 2016 at 11:22, Nityanand Misra <nmisra at gmail.com> wrote:

> The last I checked Murty Hindi was also single weight (no boldface, italic
> or bold italic). Has that changed?
>
> Plus you cannot use it for publishing a book (as it would be commercial
> use) without permission.
>
> On 20 June 2016 at 03:38, Dominik Wujastyk <wujastyk at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Another font to take seriously is the new Murty Hindi
>> <http://www.murtylibrary.com/mcli-fonts.php>, which is pretty good for
>> Skt too.   It's a font that, to my eye, looks a lot better on paper than on
>> the screen.
>>
>> Nota bene also an interesting new Devanagari font created  by Alessandro
>> Graheli, that can be seen in his recent publication *History and
>> Transmission of the Ny?yama?jar?. Critical Edition of the Section on the
>> Spho?a *
>> (Vienna: ??
>> Verlag der ?sterreichischen Akademie der Wissenschaften, 2015
>> <http://www.ikga.oeaw.ac.at/Mitarbeiter/Graheli>
>> ?) <http://www.ikga.oeaw.ac.at/Mitarbeiter/Graheli>?.  Alessandro has
>> been strongly influenced by his long experience with Sanskrit manuscripts,
>> and his font reflects the influence of scribal traditions, for example the
>> interrupted ak?ara-by-ak?ara m?tr? line.  It's subtle.
>>
>> Best,
>> Dominik
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Professor Dominik Wujastyk*
>> <http://ualberta.Academia.edu/DominikWujastyk>
>> Singhmar Chair in Classical Indian Society and Polity
>> Department of History and Classics
>> <http://historyandclassics.ualberta.ca/>
>> University of Alberta, Canada
>>
>> On 18 June 2016 at 22:31, Nityanand Misra <nmisra at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Dear Prof. Scharf
>>>
>>> Are the .tex files available for reference? Would be helpful to use
>>> them. Some of the conjuncts in Ulrich Stiehl's list are absent in Sanskrit.
>>> For example ??? (conjunct # 572 in Stiehl's list) would be impossible in
>>> Sanskrit due to ???? ??? ???.
>>>
>>> As for the five recommended fonts, how many have bold, bold italic, and
>>> italic weights? I know that Chandas, Sanskrit 2003, (and most probably
>>> Uttara too) have only one weight. It is impractical to typeset a book in a
>>> single weight. One can resort to AutoFakeBold and AutoFakeSlant options in
>>> LaTeX but the result would be unprofessional. Another thing is that fonts
>>> like Chandas are good for screen, but when printed they look synthetic. The
>>> two strokes in ? of Chandas are both straight lines, looks very unnatural.
>>>
>>> The font I have settled for with use in LaTeX is Chanakya Sanskrit by
>>> Summit Information Technology Pvt Ltd based in Gurgaon. This is the
>>> extension of the legacy Chanakya font that is used by all standard Indian
>>> publishers like Gita Press. Beautiful, artistic, and with four weights. It
>>> is expensive to buy, but worth the money if one wants to use the fonts to
>>> publish books. Sample pages of a book I recently designed and typeset in
>>> XeLaTeX using Chanakya Pro (Chanakya Sanskrit is a superset of Chanakya
>>> Pro) are attached.
>>>
>>> PS: Chanakya Pro and Chanakya Sanskrit are both without Vedic accents.
>>> This is a limitation.
>>>
>>> PPS: I stopped using skt package long ago, since XeLaTeX allows direct
>>> Unicode input. For four years now I have used XeLaTeX with polyglossia to
>>> typeset books in Sanskrit and Hindi.
>>>
>>> Thanks, Nityanand
>>>
>>> On 18 June 2016 at 00:58, Peter Scharf <scharfpm7 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Dear Indologists,
>>>>
>>>> I have just completed a comparison of the ligature formation produced
>>>> by several Devanagari fonts and thought it might be useful to share the
>>>> results of the comparison.  I compared 1260 ligatures formed by the LaTeX
>>>> Skt package with seven Unicode fonts.  The ligatures compared were the
>>>> combined set of all those listed by Ulrich Stiehl in his document, *Conjunct
>>>> Consonants in Sanskrit*, Heidelberg, 21 April 2003, pp. 4--34, and
>>>> those listed in the Skt package documentation *Sanskrit for LaTeX2e*,
>>>> pp. 22--35.
>>>>
>>>> 1. LaTeX Skt package
>>>> 2. Chandas
>>>> 3. Uttara
>>>> 4. Sanskrit2003
>>>> 5. Praja
>>>> 6. Arial Unicode MS
>>>> 7. Devanagari MT
>>>> 8. Mangal
>>>>
>>>> The LaTeX Skt package comes with the TeXLive installation available at
>>>> https://www.tug.org/texlive/.  The Chandas and Uttara fonts were
>>>> produced by produced by Mihail Bayaryn and are available at
>>>> http://www.sanskritweb.net/cakram/.  The Sanskrit2003 font was
>>>> produced by Ulrich Stiehl and is available at
>>>> http://www.omkarananda-ashram.org/Sanskrit/itranslator2003.htm.  These
>>>> fonts are all available free of cost.  Praja was produced by Peter Freund
>>>> and is available for $35 at
>>>> https://secure.bmtmicro.com/servlets/Orders.ShoppingCart?CID=5115&PRODUCTID=51150002.
>>>> Arial Unicode MS is available with Microsoft Office, FrontPage and
>>>> Publisher, with the installation of international support.  Devanagari MT
>>>> is available with Mac systems with the Asian languages support.  Mangal is
>>>> available with Windows systems with supplemental language support.
>>>>
>>>> The comparison showed that Chandas and Uttara are able to form all
>>>> conjuncts correctly with the exception of seven sequences: *?k??va*,
>>>> *?rvya*, *?hthya*, *d??a*, *ddbra*, *ddvra*, *l?la*, without the
>>>> interruption of an inappropriate vir?ma.  The LaTeX Skt package handles all
>>>> but 29.  Sanskrit 2003 lacked 80, Praja 187, Arial Unicode MS 201,
>>>> Devanagari MT 232, and Mangal 236.  I also checked the behavior of the
>>>> fonts in handling the accents in the Devanagari extended, and Vedic
>>>> extenstions Unicode pages.  Only the Praja font handled them all properly,
>>>> the LaTeX Skt package handles most Vedic accentuation, while most fonts
>>>> handled only the common accentual system.  A test of Vedic accents with any
>>>> font can be performed by visiting the Sanskrit Library's interactive Vedic
>>>> Unicode character phonetic value table at
>>>> http://sanskritlibrary.org/accents.html.  Simply set your browser to
>>>> use the font you would like to test.
>>>>
>>>> The first five fonts listed are therefore commendable; the last three
>>>> are inadequate for Sanskrit.  It would be desirable for Mihail Bayaryn and
>>>> Ulrich Stiehl to upgrade their fonts, which otherwise handle conjuncts very
>>>> comprehensively, to handle the Vedic characters in the two Unicode pages
>>>> mentioned including in particular the combining candrabindu with semivowels
>>>> *l*, *y*, and *v*.
>>>>
>>>> Other Indic fonts not tested are described on the University of
>>>> Chicago's South Asia Language Resource Center page at
>>>> http://salrc.uchicago.edu/resources/fonts/available/hindi/.
>>>>
>>>> Yours,
>>>> Peter
>>>>
>>>> *************************
>>>> Peter M. Scharf
>>>> scharfpm7 at gmail.com
>>>> *************************
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>>>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>>>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
>>>> committee)
>>>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options
>>>> or unsubscribe)
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Nity?nanda Mi?ra
>>> http://nmisra.googlepages.com
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
>>> committee)
>>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options
>>> or unsubscribe)
>>>
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Nity?nanda Mi?ra
> http://nmisra.googlepages.com
>
>


-- 
Nity?nanda Mi?ra
http://nmisra.googlepages.com


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From caf57 at cam.ac.uk  Mon Jun 20 10:04:19 2016
From: caf57 at cam.ac.uk (C.A. Formigatti)
Date: Mon, 20 Jun 16 11:04:19 +0100
Subject: [INDOLOGY] CORRECTION Re: ISO transliteration standard for devanagari (Harry Spier)
In-Reply-To: <CAPW7aQGnn+yb-V-MWwXRA-CpcyzVFfW=L0PM+OKFKAc4SsCQ8Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <b71ecb44ec35dc52ceac6c541c94bd92@cam.ac.uk>

Dear Harry,

I'm not entirely sure that I made my point clear. I tried and have a 
look at the ISO-15919 standard online and realized I'd have to buy it to 
read the complete version. I have no intention in the foreseeable future 
to buy the whole ISO-15919 standard and read it through, but I guess it 
doesn't deal entensively with manuscript transcription. Any standard can 
be improved and I am sure that the ISO-15919 does not provide any clue 
as to how to transliterate the countless symbols that occur in South 
Asian manuscripts. You can get a fair idea of how many and how different 
they are in the various South Asian manuscript traditions by browsing 
Katrin Einicke's Korrektur, Differenzierung und Abk?rzung in indischen 
Inschriften und Handschriften, Wiesbaden, Harrassowitz, 2009 (and in my 
personal experience, this work covers only a part of the symbols 
actually used in Sanskrit manuscripts). I also think that the ISO-15919 
cannot possibly be exhaustive and all-encompassing, because it cannot 
cover all possible aims of transcription.

I am quoting and pasting the remarks provided by Prof. Witzel in the 
useful link you provided:

''The question is which ``norm`` to follow.''

Exactly this is the point. Often we normalize and bluntly follow 
Paninian rules even for Sanskrit texts that sometimes were clearly 
composed and written in non-Paninian Sanskrit.

''Prof.  v. Simson wrote:
>>>>> But since the scribes are not consistent in their use of sandhi, I
think it is best to standardize the orthography and to follow Panini's
rules as far as sandhi is concerned. This makes it also easier for the
user of your edition. You may describe the actual practice of the 
scribes
in your introduction or you can give the writings of the manuscripts in
the critical apparatus. <<<''

Alas, sometimes scribes solved the sandhi to mark word boundaries in 
manuscripts that probably had didactical purposes. What shall we do in 
such cases? If we normalize the sandhi, then this information is lost 
(unless we note it in the introduction). We even go as far as to 
normalize the doubling of consonant after repha, even though this 
optional orthography is allowed by Panini (8.4.46) and it actually 
occurs very often in manuscripts. Why do we do that? Here is the reason, 
with the counter reason why we shouldn't do it, again in the words of 
Prof. Witzel:

"This is reasonable practice. However, I think the this practice *is* 
the
problem. At any rate, the case is more complicated. Once you start
comparing MSS from various areas of medieval India you notice clearly
defined local styles: the Kashmirians have one ``orthography`` of
Sanskrit, the Newars of the Kathmandu valley another, the Gujaratis,
Oriyas, Tamils, Nambudiris  still another, and so on...  Apart from
occasionl remarks (e.g. : this is Dravidian ``ra`` for  vowel ``r``) the
problem has hardly been noticed. (I think I have referred to it here and
there in articles on the Paippalada Atharvaveda; or see Lubotsky in IIJ
25 for Maitrayani Samhita /Gujarati practise which is surprisingly
different from what we learn  in school; cf. also Prof. Rao`s example of
pronunciation of   vowel R in sandhi ).

You write the following remark:

>  To my mind the problem is that if you can't use a transliteration
> standard to prepare a diplomatic transliteration then there is
> something wrong with that transliteration standard.  Surely thats the
> purpose of a transliteration standard. Note that the  rule for
> normalizing anusvaras to class nasals is a "required rule" and not a
> recommendation or option.  As you pointed out the normalization of
> nasals is bad practice for transcribing manuscripts.  The
> normalization of nasals  was pointed out as a problem in editing
> manuscripts about 20 years ago on this list:

I think you are mixing up levels, because editing is one thing, and 
preparing a diplomatic transcription is another. Moreover, if a standard 
is not useful and creates more problems that it solves, then there is 
clearly a problem, in this I totally agree with you. However I also do 
not believe that the purpose of this standard was to provide a full 
guide as to how to prepare a diplomatic transcription of manuscripts 
from all South Asian manuscript traditions. In fact, it provides a 
standard to transliterate mainly Devanagari--and related Indic scripts 
(and this loose definition is already problematic). Does the standard 
provide a rule for distinguishing between siromatra and prsthamatra 
vowels? Then again, why should it?

I think that your question opened a can of worms, and I have to thank 
you a lot for having asked it.

Best wishes,

Camillo







From franco at uni-leipzig.de  Mon Jun 20 10:04:35 2016
From: franco at uni-leipzig.de (Franco)
Date: Mon, 20 Jun 16 12:04:35 +0200
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Jati as Caste in Nyaya?
In-Reply-To: <CEAF34A1-3DE6-4A09-B167-36EF1D36F1AB@uclouvain.be>
Message-ID: <5B1C0816-4F76-4625-9CC6-ACDB4021ADAA@uni-leipzig.de>

Jitari has written a short treatise on this subject called dvijAtidUSaNa. It is not yet edited, but I have a preliminary transcription of it. If anyone is interested, please contact me off the list.
Best wishes,
Eli


Sent from my iPad

> On 19 Jun 2016, at 16:11, Christophe Vielle <christophe.vielle at uclouvain.be> wrote:
> 
> See also the presentation of the problem of j?ti in the meya portion of the M?nameyodaya (2, 3 = j?ti, 1-18)
> Kunhan Raja C.  & Suryanarayana Sastri S. S. 21975, M?nameyodaya of N?r?ya?a Bha??a and N?r?ya?a Pa??ita (an elementary treatise on the M?m??s?), Madras, Adyar Library Series 105,  pp. 233-244.
> 
> ? p. 243 (17 - Bh???a conclusion):  "Thus is established 'Brahminness'. What apprehends it is the sense of sight itself assisted by the understanding of his being born of a Brahmin father and mother, whose Brahminness is not corrupted; hence it is not non-perceptible either"
> 
> Cf. also (recognized as one of the main sources of the M?nameyodaya) the earlier N?titattv?virbh?va of Cid?nanda (cf. ?d. P. K. Narayana Pillai 1953, N?titattv?virbh?va of Cid?nandapa??ita, Trivandrum, TSS 168 ; cf. republ. in K. T. Pandurangi 2008, Cid?nanda-pa??ita-viracita?, N?titattv?virbh?va?, M?m??s?bh??yapari?i??ena Tantrarahasyena ca sahita?, Bangalore), the 20th topic of which is J?tinir?aya, apparently more directed against the Buddhist views, without dealing with the problem of Brahminhood (abstract in Pandurangi 2008 pp. xvii-viii, EIPh 16, p. 114-15). 
> 
> I did not go into the provided ??likan?tha's text in details (and did not start to search into Prabh?kara's own commentatorial works where the original statements could be found), but from secondary sources, it appears that Bh???as and Pr?bh?karas differ here in the explanation. For both j?ti is a perceptible category, but the relation of  j?ti with individual is given as a combination of difference and non-difference for the former, whereas it is difference for the latter, according to whom the apposition (individual - universal) is through inherence. Pr?bh?karas admit the existence of genus/class of substance, but refuse to accept the existence of genus of quality and action. 
> And according to Pr?bh?karas, differently from the case of cowness, Brahminhood or K?atriyahood are not considered as real j?ti:
> 
> ? MM p. 239 (- 9): "Although the genus is thus established, the Guru [Prabh?kara] says that, since its cognition is invariably controlled by the knowledge of the earlier form, existence, soundness, Brahminness, etc. which have not that knowledge are non-existent".
> 
> So the debate referred to could be internal to Mimamsakas rather than between Mimamsakas and Buddhists.
> 
> Best wishes,
> 
> Christophe
> 
>> Le 17 juin 2016 ? 20:00, John Taber <jataber at unm.edu> a ?crit :
>> 
>> Dear Don et al.,
>> 
>> Since Christophe brought up M?m??s?: the relevant passage in Kum?rila is Tantrav?rttika ad MS 1.2.2. This is interpreted by Halbfass in the chapter of Tradition and Reflection mentioned by Sam Wright. (I look forward to reading his forthcoming article in JIP.)
>> 
>> The issue for Kum?rila is mainly the perceptibility of universals, as H. explains. The var?as pose a sort of test case. It's not at all clear that one can just SEE that someone is a brahmin. K. argues that, even though various factors may be required to stimulate perception of a universal - in the case of Brahminhood, for instance, being told the person's lineage - it is perceptible nonetheless. Cf. ?lokav?rttika Vanav?da 26-29, where the problem is discussed in more general terms; other problematic cases are mentioned there (e.g., how does one perceive gheeness in melted ghee? - by smelling or tasting it!). Some universals may be more difficult to perceive than others, but even if one has to climb to the top of a mountain in order to see something (presumably something very far away), that does not make it not perceptible (na hi yad giri???gam ?ruhya g?hyate tad apratyak?am, TV 1.2.2).
>> 
>> There may be certain cultural prejudices in the background of Kum?rila's discussion (here I'm thinking of what Dominik wrote and some of the things Halbfass says: Brahminhood is determined by a universal, not by conduct; it is inherent in someone; there's certainly no social mobility here!), but ultimately I think he is concerned to defend the notion that real (eternal) universals, which are perceptible, as opposed to the pseudo-universals of the Buddhists (apohas), are the meanings of words. Since the universal cowness is perceptible, we can SEE that that is the meaning of the word "cow" when someone points to a cow and says, "That is called a cow." Otherwise, it is not clear how the connected between word and meaning could ever be established.
>> 
>> Cheers again,
>> JT
>> 
>> 
>>> On Jun 17, 2016, at 7:08 AM, Christophe Vielle <christophe.vielle at uclouvain.be> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Dear Don,
>>> 
>>> The problem is also epistemologically discussed by the Prabhakara-mimamsaka ??likan?tha in the Prakara?apa?cik?, prakara?a 4 : J?tinir?aya
>>> 
>>>  See short abstract of this chapter in
>>> 
>>> Potter K. H. ?d. 2014, Philosophy of P?rva-M?m??s?, Delhi, Encyclopedia of Indian Philosophies 16, pp. 308-309 (relying on Verpoorten and Pandurangi)
>>> 
>>> The 1961 Benares edition of the PP is available here :
>>> 
>>> http://www.new.dli.ernet.in/handle/2015/383225
>>> 
>>> (better scan than :
>>> 
>>> http://www.dli.ernet.in/handle/2015/541509
>>> 
>>> http://www.dli.ernet.in/handle/2015/311115  )
>>> 
>>> Here below an extract of the Sansknet input on GRETIL
>>> 
>>> http://gretil.sub.uni-goettingen.de/gretil/1_sanskr/6_sastra/3_phil/mimamsa/prakp04u.htm 
>>> 
>>> (?)
>>> 
>>> tad idam apahastitam, yad ?hu? 
>>> 
>>> "?abdatvam eva tattadas?dh?ra??bhivya?jakadhvaninibandhanatay? n?n?var?ape?a vi?ay?bhavat tasya tasy?rthasy?vagam?ya kalpata" iti /
>>> 
>>> br?hma?atv?dij?tinir?kara?am /
>>> 
>>> anayaiva ca di?? br?hma?atv?dij?tir api niv?rit? /
>>> 
>>> nahi n?n?str?puru?avyakti?u puru?atv?darth?ntarabh?tamekam?k?ram?tmas?tkurv?nt? matir?virbhavati /
>>> 
>>> nahi k?atriy?dibhyo vy?vartam?na? sakalabr?hma?e?vanuvartam?namekam?k?ramaticiramanusandadhato 'pi budhyante /
>>> 
>>> yadapy?hu?- yadyapy?p?tasa?j?tay? dhiy? br?hma?ya? n?vas?yate, tath?pi br?hma?abh?tam?t?pit?sambandh?nusandh?naprabhav?y?? banddhau taccak?st?ti /
>>> 
>>> tadapi ca svam?nasavisa?v?di /
>>> 
>>> anusandadh?no 'pi m?t?pit?sambandha? ko j?tvekam?k?ramavaboddhu? prabhavati /
>>> 
>>> yaccopadar?itam---yath? vil?nam?jya? tail?davyatiricyam?na? gandhagraha?asahak?ri?? cak?u?aiva bhinnamavagamtaya---iti /
>>> 
>>> tadapi na sundaram /
>>> 
>>> nahi tad?n?? c?k?u?asya sa?vedanasya vi?ay?tireka?, kintvanum?nameva tatra sarpi?a? /
>>> 
>>> yastu nipu?adar?o s?k?mamapi r?pam?k?itu? k?ama?, sa cak?u?aiv?jyaj?timapi pratyeti, na gandhagraha?amapek?ate /
>>> 
>>> nanveva? bahvavah?nam, ki?nibandhano hi tad?n?m?havan?y?dis?dhyakarmasu ke???cidadhik?ro n?nye??m; ki?nibandhan? ca br?hma?a?abdasya prav?ttivyavasth? iti /
>>> 
>>> atrocyate /
>>> 
>>> an?dau sa?s?re janyajanakabh?vena vyavasthit?st?vat k??cideva str?puru?asantataya? santi, t?s?m anyonyavyatikare?a j?t?? str?pu?savyaktayo br?hma?a?abdav?cy?? /
>>> 
>>> anidamprathamatay? ca santate? sarve??? tatsantatipatitatv?t siddh? br?hma?a?abdav?cyat? /
>>> 
>>> tena santativi?e?aprabhavatvameva br?hma?a?abdaprav?tt?v up?dhi? /
>>> 
>>> tatprabhav?n?meva karmasvadhik?ra iti na ki?cidavah?nam /
>>> 
>>> ke punaste santativi?e??? /
>>> 
>>> na te pariga?ayya nirde??u? ?akyante, kintu lokata eva prasiddh?? pratyetavy?? /
>>> 
>>> tath? ca tajjanyatve 'vagate br?hma?a?abda? prayu?jate lok?? /
>>> 
>>> (?)
>>> 
>>> Best wishes,
>>> 
>>> Christophe
>>> 
>>>> Le 16 juin 2016 ? 20:41, Donald R Davis <drdj at austin.utexas.edu> a ?crit :
>>>> 
>>>> My thanks to Sam Wright who pointed me to the following:
>>>> 
>>>> Wilhelm Halbfass, ?Homo Hierarchicus: The Conceptualization of the Varna System in Indian Thought,? in Tradition and Reflecton. SUNY Press, 1991. [contains a long discussion of the jati as caste and as universal in the works of several authors, including Jayanta and, especially, Kumarila on pp. 363ff.]
>>>> 
>>>> Samuel Wright, "History in the Abstract: ?Brahman-ness? and the Discipline of Nyaya in Seventeenth-Century Varanasi.? Journal of Indian Philosophy, forthcoming. 
>>>> 
>>>> The issue is discussed on page 204 in Sukla, S. N. (Ed.). (1971). Nya?yama?jari? of Jayanta Bhat?t?a (Part I). The Kashi Sanskrit Series 106, Nyaya Section No. 15. Varanasi: Chowkhamba Sanskrit Series Office.
>>>> 
>>>> Best, Don
>>>> 
>>>> From: INDOLOGY <indology-bounces at list.indology.info> on behalf of Johannes Bronkhorst <johannes.bronkhorst at unil.ch>
>>>> Date: Thursday, June 16, 2016 at 11:40 AM
>>>> To: rajam <rajam at earthlink.net>
>>>> Cc: Dominik Wujastyk <wujastyk at gmail.com>, "indology at list.indology.info" <indology at list.indology.info>
>>>> Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] J?ti as Caste in Ny?ya?
>>>> 
>>>> Vincent Eltschinger?s ? Caste ? et philosophie bouddhique (Vienna 2000) seems relevant in this connection. An English version of this book is also available:
>>>> 
>>>> Caste and Buddhist Philosophy: Continuity of Some Buddhist Arguments Against the Realist Interpretation of Social Denominations (Motilal Banarsidass 2012)
>>>> 
>>>> Johannes
>>>> 
>>>>> On 16 juin 2016, at 18:37, rajam <rajam at earthlink.net> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> Many thanks to the originator of this thread!
>>>>> 
>>>>> Right now, I just want to register the fact that I?m very much interested in this topic.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Last year (May 2015), I had a publication (in Tamil) about references to, or a lack there of, ?j?ti? and ?caste? (as we understand it today) in Old Tamil literature/grammar, also known as Sangam literature/grammar.
>>>>> 
>>>>> I don?t know how many of you are aware of the fact that the English word ?caste? has its origin in the Portuguese word ?casta,? which was first recorded in Arte da Lingua Malabar written by Fr. Henrique Henriques in the mid-16th century. 
>>>>> 
>>>>> If one wants to dig deep into the understanding of the terms such as ?j?ti? and ?caste? ? one has to have a minimal understanding of the origins of the Western contact with India, which happened in the early 16-th century through Portuguese arrival in South India.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Thanks and regards,
>>>>> V.S.Rajam
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>>> On Jun 16, 2016, at 8:53 AM, Dominik Wujastyk <wujastyk at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> ?Dear Don,
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> This interests me a lot, and I'd be grateful to read what you might write about it in future.  It's on my back-burner, but I've long wondered whether Sanskritic narratives about jati and varna can be thought about in ways similar to eighteenth and nineteenth century European narratives about races and species.  Were people of different varnas formally considered to be of different "species?"   It's a bit shocking to think in these terms, but I've been wondering about it.  If you ever put flesh on these bones, one way or another, or can point me to existing discussions on this, I'd be really interested.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Best,
>>>>>> Dominik
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Professor Dominik Wujastyk*
>>>>>> Singhmar Chair in Classical Indian Society and Polity
>>>>>> Department of History and Classics
>>>>>> University of Alberta, Canada
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On 16 June 2016 at 08:53, Donald R Davis <drdj at austin.utexas.edu> wrote:
>>>>>>> Dear Colleagues,
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> I would be grateful for additional references to an argument mentioned in Jayanta Bhatta?s ?gama?ambara 4.143-4 (in Dezso?s edition in the Clay series).  The question is whether the j?ti of Brahmins, etc. is like the j?ti of cow-ness, etc. in being empirically observable or directly perceivable.  Jayanta refers to those who say that verbal/textual testimony alone (?abdam?tre?a) establishes the four-var?a system.  This prefigures an argument made in Vij??ne?vara?s Mit?k?ar? (on Yaj 1.90) where the same distinction is drawn to refute an objection.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> I assumed Jayanta would have made a similar argument in his Ny?yama?jar?, but I have not been able to locate it (probably because I barely know the Ny?ya literature).  If anyone could point me toward other instances of this issue, whether in original sources or contemporary research, I?d appreciate it.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Best,
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Don Davis
>>>>>>> Dept of Asian Studies
>>>>>>> University of Texas at Austin
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>>>>>>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>>>>>>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee)
>>>>>>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe)
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>>>>>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>>>>>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee)
>>>>>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe)
>>>>> 
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>>>>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>>>>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee)
>>>>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe)
>>>> 
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>>>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>>>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee)
>>>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe)
>>> 
>>> ???????????????????
>>> Christophe Vielle
>>> Louvain-la-Neuve
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee)
>>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe)
> 
> ???????????????????
> Christophe Vielle
> Louvain-la-Neuve
> 
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
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From mrinalkaul81 at gmail.com  Mon Jun 20 12:58:20 2016
From: mrinalkaul81 at gmail.com (Mrinal Kaul)
Date: Mon, 20 Jun 16 18:28:20 +0530
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Fwd: Request to Circulate Information on Workshop on	Trika Philosophy of Kashmir
In-Reply-To: <CAF6Z=4JaR24fWn+9EUuyPyJ-K7Lfzk3cM9=SGN4C0iiW1tDZZA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <7EF419C0-AF2D-4129-A817-E7D50E94C570@gmail.com>

Sent from my iPhone

Begin forwarded message:

> From: ICPR AC <icprlkw at gmail.com>
> Date: 20 June 2016 at 2:51:44 PM IST
> To: mrinalkaul81 at gmail.com
> Subject: Request to Circulate Information on Workshop on Trika Philosophy of Kashmir
> 
> 
> Dr. Mrinal Kaul                                                        
> 
> 
> Dear Sir,
>               The Indian Council of Philosophical Research (ICPR) is organizing a Workshop (for 11 Days) on Trika Philosophy of Kashmir (i.e. Kashmir Saivism) from September 21 to October 1, 2016 at ICPR Academic Centre, Lucknow, Professor Navjivan Rastogi is the Coordinator of the programme.
> 
>              May I request you to help us in circulating this information in your notice board / website and among your faculty members and research scholars, so that the interested scholar can send their application to attend the workshop?   
> 
>   Last Date of receiving applications is 15th July 2016.  The candidates can click on the underlines for Details...  and  Application form... . The scanned copy of filled-in application form may be sent to icprlkw at gmail.com (only forty seats for outstation candidates)
> 
> Yours sincerely,
> S.K.Kar, Programme Officer, ICPR, ACADEMIC CENTRE, 3/9,VIPUL KHAND, GOMTI NAGAR,
> LUCKNOW - 226 010, PHONE/FAX- 0522-2392636


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From Palaniappa at aol.com  Mon Jun 20 15:55:31 2016
From: Palaniappa at aol.com (Sudalaimuthu Palaniappan)
Date: Mon, 20 Jun 16 10:55:31 -0500
Subject: Need the article,	"What's in a Name?: The Religious Function of the Early Donative	Inscriptions"
Message-ID: <FE0CFB14-93A7-4AD8-9AE0-903A2E6A38F2@aol.com>

Dear Indologists,

I would appreciate if anyone can share the following article by Gregory Schopen.
'What's in a Name?: The Religious Function of the Early Donative Inscriptions', in Unseen Presence: The Buddha and Sanchi, Vidya Dehejia (ed.), Mumbai: Marg Publications, 1996, pp. 58-73. 

Thank you very much in advance.

Regards,
Palaniappan


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From Palaniappa at aol.com  Mon Jun 20 17:22:19 2016
From: Palaniappa at aol.com (Sudalaimuthu Palaniappan)
Date: Mon, 20 Jun 16 12:22:19 -0500
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Need the article,	"What's in a Name?: The Religious Function of the Early Donative	Inscriptions"
In-Reply-To: <mailman.3304.1466438184.12357.indology_list.indology.info@list.indology.info>
Message-ID: <3528ED74-EBBB-4E21-85DC-0195E3615F98@aol.com>

All,

I appreciate Rein Ende sending me the article.

Regards,
Palaniappan


> On Jun 20, 2016, at 10:56 AM, Sudalaimuthu Palaniappan via INDOLOGY <indology at list.indology.info> wrote:
> 
> 
> From: Sudalaimuthu Palaniappan <Palaniappa at aol.com>
> Subject: Need the article, "What's in a Name?: The Religious Function of the Early Donative Inscriptions"
> Date: June 20, 2016 at 10:55:31 AM CDT
> To: Indology <Indology at list.indology.info>
> 
> 
> Dear Indologists,
> 
> I would appreciate if anyone can share the following article by Gregory Schopen.
> 'What's in a Name?: The Religious Function of the Early Donative Inscriptions', in Unseen Presence: The Buddha and Sanchi, Vidya Dehejia (ed.), Mumbai: Marg Publications, 1996, pp. 58-73. 
> 
> Thank you very much in advance.
> 
> Regards,
> Palaniappan
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe)



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From nagarajpaturi at gmail.com  Mon Jun 20 18:49:16 2016
From: nagarajpaturi at gmail.com (Nagaraj Paturi)
Date: Tue, 21 Jun 16 00:19:16 +0530
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Jati as Caste in Nyaya?
In-Reply-To: <5B1C0816-4F76-4625-9CC6-ACDB4021ADAA@uni-leipzig.de>
Message-ID: <CAJGj9eatyq1T04YkDnSkX791mMQdnbfYiLSqk0-94z28jMjTaw@mail.gmail.com>

> Jitari has written a short treatise on this subject called dvijAtidUSaNa

----- Does this treatise deal with the jaatitva of brahmaNatva as per
Nyaya, Mimamsa or Vyakarana darsanas?

or the question of  whether the *j?ti* of Brahmins, etc. is like the *j?ti*
of cow-ness, etc. in being empirically observable or directly perceivable ?



On Mon, Jun 20, 2016 at 3:34 PM, Franco <franco at uni-leipzig.de> wrote:

> Jitari has written a short treatise on this subject called dvijAtidUSaNa.
> It is not yet edited, but I have a preliminary transcription of it. If
> anyone is interested, please contact me off the list.
> Best wishes,
> Eli
>
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
> On 19 Jun 2016, at 16:11, Christophe Vielle <
> christophe.vielle at uclouvain.be> wrote:
>
> See also the presentation of the problem of* j**?**ti* in the *meya*
> portion of the *M?nameyodaya* (2, 3 = *j**?**ti*, 1-18)
>
> Kunhan Raja C.  & Suryanarayana Sastri S. S. 21975, *M?nameyodaya of
> N?r?ya?a B**ha??a and N?r?ya?a Pa??ita (an elementary treatise on the
> M?m??s?)*, Madras, Adyar Library Series 105,  pp. 233-244.
> ? p. 243 (17 - Bh???a conclusion):  "Thus is established 'Brahminness'.
> What apprehends it is the sense of sight itself assisted by the
> understanding of his being born of a Brahmin father and mother, whose
> Brahminness is not corrupted; hence it is not non-perceptible either"
>
> Cf. also (recognized as one of the main sources of the *M?nameyodaya*)
> the earlier N?titattv?virbh?va of Cid?nanda (cf. ?d. P. K. Narayana
> Pillai 1953, *N?titattv?virbh?va of Cid?nandapa??ita*, Trivandrum, TSS
> 168 ; cf. republ. in K. T. Pandurangi 2008, *Cid?nanda-pa??ita-viracita?,
> N?titattv?virbh?va?, M?m??s?bh??yapari?i??ena Tantrarahasyena ca sahita?*,
> Bangalore), the 20th topic of which is *J?tinir?aya*, apparently more
> directed against the Buddhist views, without dealing with the problem of
> Brahminhood (abstract in Pandurangi 2008 pp. xvii-viii, EIPh 16, p.
> 114-15).
>
> I did not go into the provided ??likan?tha's text in details (and did not
> start to search into Prabh?kara's own commentatorial works where the
> original statements could be found), but from secondary sources, it
> appears that Bh???as and Pr?bh?karas differ here in the explanation. For
> both *j**?**ti *is a perceptible category, but the relation of  *j**?**ti* with
> individual is given as a combination of difference and non-difference for
> the former, whereas it is difference for the latter, according to whom the
> apposition (individual - universal) is through inherence. Pr?bh?karas
> admit the existence of genus/class of substance, but refuse to accept the
> existence of genus of quality and action.
> And according to Pr?bh?karas, differently from the case of cowness,
> Brahminhood or K?atriyahood are not considered as real *j**?**ti*:
>
> ? MM p. 239 (- 9): "Although the genus is thus established, the Guru
> [Prabh?kara] says that, since its cognition is invariably controlled by the
> knowledge of the earlier form, existence, soundness, Brahminness, etc.
> which have not that knowledge are non-existent".
>
> So the debate referred to could be internal to Mimamsakas rather than
> between Mimamsakas and Buddhists.
>
> Best wishes,
>
> Christophe
>
> Le 17 juin 2016 ? 20:00, John Taber <jataber at unm.edu> a ?crit :
>
> Dear Don et al.,
>
> Since Christophe brought up M?m??s?: the relevant passage in Kum?rila is *
> Tantrav?rttika* ad MS 1.2.2. This is interpreted by Halbfass in the
> chapter of *Tradition and Reflection* mentioned by Sam Wright. (I look
> forward to reading his forthcoming article in JIP.)
>
> The issue for Kum?rila is mainly the perceptibility of universals, as H.
> explains. The var?as pose a sort of test case. It's not at all clear that
> one can just SEE that someone is a brahmin. K. argues that, even though
> various factors may be required to stimulate perception of a universal - in
> the case of Brahminhood, for instance, being told the person's lineage - it
> is perceptible nonetheless. Cf. ?lokav?rttika Vanav?da 26-29, where the
> problem is discussed in more general terms; other problematic cases are
> mentioned there (e.g., how does one perceive gheeness in melted ghee? - by
> smelling or tasting it!). Some universals may be more difficult to perceive
> than others, but even if one has to climb to the top of a mountain in order
> to see something (presumably something very far away), that does not make
> it not perceptible (na hi yad giri???gam ?ruhya g?hyate tad apratyak?am, TV
> 1.2.2).
>
> There may be certain cultural prejudices in the background of Kum?rila's
> discussion (here I'm thinking of what Dominik wrote and some of the things
> Halbfass says: Brahminhood is *determined* by a universal, not by
> conduct; it is *inherent* in someone; there's certainly no social
> mobility here!), but ultimately I think he is concerned to defend the
> notion that real (eternal) universals, which are perceptible, as opposed to
> the pseudo-universals of the Buddhists (apohas), are the meanings of words.
> Since the universal cowness is perceptible, we can SEE that that is the
> meaning of the word "cow" when someone points to a cow and says, "That is
> called a cow." Otherwise, it is not clear how the connected between word
> and meaning could ever be established.
>
> Cheers again,
> JT
>
>
> On Jun 17, 2016, at 7:08 AM, Christophe Vielle <
> christophe.vielle at uclouvain.be> wrote:
>
> Dear Don,
>
> The problem is also epistemologically discussed by the
> Prabhakara-mimamsaka ??likan?tha in the *Prakara?apa?cik?*, *prakara?a* 4
> : *J?tinir?aya*
>
>  See short abstract of this chapter in
>
> Potter K. H. ?d. 2014, *Philosophy of P?rva-**M?m??s?*, Delhi,
> Encyclopedia of Indian Philosophies 16, pp. 308-309 (relying on Verpoorten
> and Pandurangi)
>
> The 1961 Benares edition of the PP is available here :
>
> http://www.new.dli.ernet.in/handle/2015/383225
>
> (better scan than :
>
> http://www.dli.ernet.in/handle/2015/541509
>
> http://www.dli.ernet.in/handle/2015/311115  )
>
> Here below an extract of the Sansknet input on GRETIL
>
>
> http://gretil.sub.uni-goettingen.de/gretil/1_sanskr/6_sastra/3_phil/mimamsa/prakp04u.htm
>
>
> (?)
>
> tad idam apahastitam, yad ?hu?
>
> "?abdatvam eva tattadas?dh?ra??bhivya?jakadhvaninibandhanatay?
> n?n?var?ape?a vi?ay?bhavat tasya tasy?rthasy?vagam?ya kalpata" iti /
>
> *br?hma?atv?dij?ti*nir?kara?am /
>
> anayaiva ca di?? br?hma?atv?dij?tir api niv?rit? /
>
> nahi n?n?str?puru?avyakti?u
> puru?atv?darth?ntarabh?tamekam?k?ram?tmas?tkurv?nt? matir?virbhavati /
>
> nahi k?atriy?dibhyo vy?vartam?na?
> sakalabr?hma?e?vanuvartam?namekam?k?ramaticiramanusandadhato 'pi budhyante /
>
> yadapy?hu?- yadyapy?p?tasa?j?tay? dhiy? br?hma?ya? n?vas?yate, tath?pi
> br?hma?abh?tam?t?pit?sambandh?nusandh?naprabhav?y?? banddhau taccak?st?ti /
>
> tadapi ca svam?nasavisa?v?di /
>
> anusandadh?no 'pi m?t?pit?sambandha? ko j?tvekam?k?ramavaboddhu?
> prabhavati /
>
> yaccopadar?itam---yath? vil?nam?jya? tail?davyatiricyam?na?
> gandhagraha?asahak?ri?? cak?u?aiva bhinnamavagamtaya---iti /
>
> tadapi na sundaram /
>
> nahi tad?n?? c?k?u?asya sa?vedanasya vi?ay?tireka?, kintvanum?nameva tatra
> sarpi?a? /
>
> yastu nipu?adar?o s?k?mamapi r?pam?k?itu? k?ama?, sa cak?u?aiv?jyaj?timapi
> pratyeti, na gandhagraha?amapek?ate /
>
> nanveva? bahvavah?nam, ki?nibandhano hi tad?n?m?havan?y?dis?dhyakarmasu
> ke???cidadhik?ro n?nye??m; ki?nibandhan? ca *br?hma?a?abda*sya
> prav?ttivyavasth? iti /
>
> atrocyate /
>
> an?dau sa?s?re janyajanakabh?vena vyavasthit?st?vat k??cideva
> str?puru?asantataya? santi, t?s?m anyonyavyatikare?a j?t??
> str?pu?savyaktayo *br?hma?a?abdav?cy??* /
>
> anidamprathamatay? ca santate? sarve??? tatsantatipatitatv?t *siddh?
> br?hma?a?abdav?cyat? /*
>
> tena santativi?e?aprabhavatvameva br?hma?a?abdaprav?tt?v up?dhi? /
>
> tatprabhav?n?meva karmasvadhik?ra iti na ki?cidavah?nam /
>
> ke punaste santativi?e??? /
>
> na te pariga?ayya nirde??u? ?akyante, kintu lokata eva prasiddh??
> pratyetavy?? /
>
> tath? ca tajjanyatve 'vagate br?hma?a?abda? prayu?jate lok?? /
>
> (?)
> Best wishes,
>
> Christophe
>
> Le 16 juin 2016 ? 20:41, Donald R Davis <drdj at austin.utexas.edu> a ?crit :
>
> My thanks to Sam Wright who pointed me to the following:
>
> Wilhelm Halbfass, ?Homo Hierarchicus: The Conceptualization of the Varna
> System in Indian Thought,? in *Tradition and Reflecton*. SUNY Press,
> 1991. [contains a long discussion of the jati as caste and as universal in
> the works of several authors, including Jayanta and, especially, Kumarila
> on pp. 363ff.]
>
> Samuel Wright, "History in the Abstract: ?Brahman-ness? and the Discipline
> of Nyaya in Seventeenth-Century Varanasi.? *Journal of Indian Philosophy*,
> forthcoming.
>
> The issue is discussed on page 204 in Sukla, S. N. (Ed.). (1971). *Nya?yama?jari?
> of Jayanta Bhat?t?a (Part I)*. The Kashi Sanskrit Series 106, Nyaya
> Section No. 15. Varanasi: Chowkhamba Sanskrit Series Office.
>
> Best, Don
>
> From: INDOLOGY <indology-bounces at list.indology.info> on behalf of
> Johannes Bronkhorst <johannes.bronkhorst at unil.ch>
> Date: Thursday, June 16, 2016 at 11:40 AM
> To: rajam <rajam at earthlink.net>
> Cc: Dominik Wujastyk <wujastyk at gmail.com>, "indology at list.indology.info" <
> indology at list.indology.info>
> Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] J?ti as Caste in Ny?ya?
>
> Vincent Eltschinger?s *? Caste ? et philosophie bouddhique* (Vienna 2000)
> seems relevant in this connection. An English version of this book is also
> available:
>
> *Caste and Buddhist Philosophy: Continuity of Some Buddhist Arguments
> Against the Realist Interpretation of Social Denominations* (Motilal
> Banarsidass 2012)
> Johannes
>
> On 16 juin 2016, at 18:37, rajam <rajam at earthlink.net> wrote:
>
> Many thanks to the originator of this thread!
>
> Right now, I just want to register the fact that I?m very much interested
> in this topic.
>
> Last year (May 2015), I had a publication (in Tamil) about references to,
> or a lack there of, ?j?ti? and ?caste? (as we understand it today) in Old
> Tamil literature/grammar, also known as Sangam literature/grammar.
>
> I don?t know how many of you are aware of the fact that the English
> word ?caste? has its origin in the Portuguese word ?casta,? which was first
> recorded in *Arte da Lingua Malabar* written by Fr. Henrique Henriques in
> the mid-16th century.
>
> If one wants to dig deep into the understanding of the terms such as
> ?j?ti? and ?caste? ? one has to have a minimal understanding of the origins
> of the Western contact with India, which happened in the early 16-th
> century through Portuguese arrival in South India.
>
> Thanks and regards,
> V.S.Rajam
>
>
> On Jun 16, 2016, at 8:53 AM, Dominik Wujastyk <wujastyk at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> ?Dear Don,
>
> This interests me a lot, and I'd be grateful to read what you might write
> about it in future.  It's on my back-burner, but I've long wondered whether
> Sanskritic narratives about jati and varna can be thought about in ways
> similar to eighteenth and nineteenth century European narratives about
> races and species.  Were people of different varnas formally considered to
> be of different "species?"   It's a bit shocking to think in these terms,
> but I've been wondering about it.  If you ever put flesh on these bones,
> one way or another, or can point me to existing discussions on this, I'd be
> really interested.
>
> Best,
> Dominik
>
> --
> Professor Dominik Wujastyk* <http://ualberta.academia.edu/DominikWujastyk>
> Singhmar Chair in Classical Indian Society and Polity
> Department of History and Classics
> <http://historyandclassics.ualberta.ca/>
> University of Alberta, Canada
>
> On 16 June 2016 at 08:53, Donald R Davis <drdj at austin.utexas.edu> wrote:
>
>> Dear Colleagues,
>>
>> I would be grateful for additional references to an argument mentioned in
>> Jayanta Bhatta?s *?gama?ambara* 4.143-4 (in Dezso?s edition in the Clay
>> series).  The question is whether the *j?ti* of Brahmins, etc. is like
>> the *j?ti* of cow-ness, etc. in being empirically observable or directly
>> perceivable.  Jayanta refers to those who say that verbal/textual testimony
>> alone (*?abdam?tre?a*) establishes the four-*var?a* system.  This
>> prefigures an argument made in Vij??ne?vara?s *Mit?k?ar?* (on Yaj 1.90)
>> where the same distinction is drawn to refute an objection.
>>
>> I assumed Jayanta would have made a similar argument in his *
>> Ny?yama?jar?*, but I have not been able to locate it (probably because I
>> barely know the Ny?ya literature).  If anyone could point me toward other
>> instances of this issue, whether in original sources or contemporary
>> research, I?d appreciate it.
>>
>> Best,
>>
>> Don Davis
>> Dept of Asian Studies
>> University of Texas at Austin
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
>> committee)
>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
>> unsubscribe)
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
> committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
> unsubscribe)
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
> committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
> unsubscribe)
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
> committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
> unsubscribe)
>
>
> ???????????????????
> Christophe Vielle <http://www.uclouvain.be/christophe.vielle>
> Louvain-la-Neuve
>
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
> committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
> unsubscribe)
>
>
>
> ???????????????????
> Christophe Vielle <http://www.uclouvain.be/christophe.vielle>
> Louvain-la-Neuve
>
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
> committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
> unsubscribe)
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
> committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
> unsubscribe)
>



-- 
Nagaraj Paturi

Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.

Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies

FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of  Liberal Education,

(Pune, Maharashtra, INDIA )


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From manufrancis at gmail.com  Mon Jun 20 19:18:55 2016
From: manufrancis at gmail.com (Manu Francis)
Date: Mon, 20 Jun 16 21:18:55 +0200
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Need the article, "What's in a Name?: The Religious Function of the Early Donative Inscriptions"
In-Reply-To: <mailman.3337.1466443389.12357.indology_list.indology.info@list.indology.info>
Message-ID: <CANVHsm7E-xcg-S6sCLGOnhs_UjwD0XgCXHsGn5n+=Veb1SZumA@mail.gmail.com>

Dear Rein Ende,

May I request the same?
With many thanks in advance.

---

Emmanuel Francis
Charg? de recherche CNRS, Centre d'?tude de l'Inde et de l'Asie du Sud (UMR
8564, EHESS-CNRS, Paris)
http://ceias.ehess.fr/
http://ceias.ehess.fr/index.php?1725
http://rcsi.hypotheses.org/
Associate member, Centre for the Study of Manuscript Culture (SFB 950,
Universit?t Hamburg)
http://www.manuscript-cultures.uni-hamburg.de/index_e.html
https://cnrs.academia.edu/emmanuelfrancis

2016-06-20 19:23 GMT+02:00 Sudalaimuthu Palaniappan via INDOLOGY <
indology at list.indology.info>:

> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
> committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
> unsubscribe)
>
>
> ---------- Message transf?r? ----------
> From: Sudalaimuthu Palaniappan <Palaniappa at aol.com>
> To: Indology <Indology at list.indology.info>
> Cc:
> Date: Mon, 20 Jun 2016 12:22:19 -0500
> Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] Need the article, "What's in a Name?: The
> Religious Function of the Early Donative Inscriptions"
> All,
>
> I appreciate Rein Ende sending me the article.
>
> Regards,
> Palaniappan
>
>
> On Jun 20, 2016, at 10:56 AM, Sudalaimuthu Palaniappan via INDOLOGY <
> indology at list.indology.info> wrote:
>
>
> *From: *Sudalaimuthu Palaniappan <Palaniappa at aol.com>
> *Subject: **Need the article, "What's in a Name?: The Religious Function
> of the Early Donative Inscriptions"*
> *Date: *June 20, 2016 at 10:55:31 AM CDT
> *To: *Indology <Indology at list.indology.info>
>
>
> Dear Indologists,
>
> I would appreciate if anyone can share the following article by Gregory
> Schopen.
>
> 'What's in a Name?: The Religious Function of the Early Donative
> Inscriptions', in Unseen Presence: The Buddha and Sanchi, Vidya Dehejia
> (ed.), Mumbai: Marg Publications, 1996, pp. 58-73.
> Thank you very much in advance.
>
> Regards,
> Palaniappan
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
> committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
> unsubscribe)
>
>
>
>


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From Palaniappa at aol.com  Mon Jun 20 19:30:30 2016
From: Palaniappa at aol.com (Sudalaimuthu Palaniappan)
Date: Mon, 20 Jun 16 14:30:30 -0500
Subject: AV (5,21,3) reference cited by J. Gonda
Message-ID: <B6B09529-1637-4E5B-9104-BBF8785C975F@aol.com>

Dear Indologists,

In his book, ?Notes on Names and the Name of God in Ancient India,? on. p.21, Gonda says, ?There is an intimate connection between name and origin: in magic practices the exact name and origin (cf. e.g. AV. 5, 21,3) of the object dealt with must be given wherever possible; if ?father and mother? can be named so much the better?? I checked AV. 5,21,3 Whitney?s Atharva-Veda-Samhita revised and edited by Lanman, MLBD, 1996. The translation of AV 5,21,3 reads, ?Made of forest-tree, brought together with the ruddy [kine], belonging to all the families (-gotr?-), speak thou alarm for our enemies, bring smeared with sacrificial butter.? There is no mention of name or origin. Can someone explain what the problem is?

Thanks in advance

Regards,
Palaniappan


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From hspier.muktabodha at gmail.com  Mon Jun 20 19:35:24 2016
From: hspier.muktabodha at gmail.com (Harry Spier)
Date: Mon, 20 Jun 16 15:35:24 -0400
Subject: [INDOLOGY] CORRECTION Re: ISO transliteration standard for devanagari (Harry Spier)
In-Reply-To: <b71ecb44ec35dc52ceac6c541c94bd92@cam.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <CAPW7aQF9GpXqtiu2T+JSDbsaspqXqyOPRArEGjdQbdWhyjRVRQ@mail.gmail.com>

Dear Camillo,
Thank you for your comments.  As you pointed out the standard is not
available on-line and needs to be purchased.  It is $170.00 US and so I
doubt very many sanskritists will purchase it.

Thank you,
Harry Spier

On Mon, Jun 20, 2016 at 6:04 AM, C.A. Formigatti <caf57 at cam.ac.uk> wrote:

> Dear Harry,
>
> I'm not entirely sure that I made my point clear. I tried and have a look
> at the ISO-15919 standard online and realized I'd have to buy it to read
> the complete version. I have no intention in the foreseeable future to buy
> the whole ISO-15919 standard and read it through, but I guess it doesn't
> deal entensively with manuscript transcription. Any standard can be
> improved and I am sure that the ISO-15919 does not provide any clue as to
> how to transliterate the countless symbols that occur in South Asian
> manuscripts. You can get a fair idea of how many and how different they are
> in the various South Asian manuscript traditions by browsing Katrin
> Einicke's Korrektur, Differenzierung und Abk?rzung in indischen Inschriften
> und Handschriften, Wiesbaden, Harrassowitz, 2009 (and in my personal
> experience, this work covers only a part of the symbols actually used in
> Sanskrit manuscripts). I also think that the ISO-15919 cannot possibly be
> exhaustive and all-encompassing, because it cannot cover all possible aims
> of transcription.
>
> I am quoting and pasting the remarks provided by Prof. Witzel in the
> useful link you provided:
>
> ''The question is which ``norm`` to follow.''
>
> Exactly this is the point. Often we normalize and bluntly follow Paninian
> rules even for Sanskrit texts that sometimes were clearly composed and
> written in non-Paninian Sanskrit.
>
> ''Prof.  v. Simson wrote:
>
>> But since the scribes are not consistent in their use of sandhi, I
>>>>>>
>>>>> think it is best to standardize the orthography and to follow Panini's
> rules as far as sandhi is concerned. This makes it also easier for the
> user of your edition. You may describe the actual practice of the scribes
> in your introduction or you can give the writings of the manuscripts in
> the critical apparatus. <<<''
>
> Alas, sometimes scribes solved the sandhi to mark word boundaries in
> manuscripts that probably had didactical purposes. What shall we do in such
> cases? If we normalize the sandhi, then this information is lost (unless we
> note it in the introduction). We even go as far as to normalize the
> doubling of consonant after repha, even though this optional orthography is
> allowed by Panini (8.4.46) and it actually occurs very often in
> manuscripts. Why do we do that? Here is the reason, with the counter reason
> why we shouldn't do it, again in the words of Prof. Witzel:
>
> "This is reasonable practice. However, I think the this practice *is* the
> problem. At any rate, the case is more complicated. Once you start
> comparing MSS from various areas of medieval India you notice clearly
> defined local styles: the Kashmirians have one ``orthography`` of
> Sanskrit, the Newars of the Kathmandu valley another, the Gujaratis,
> Oriyas, Tamils, Nambudiris  still another, and so on...  Apart from
> occasionl remarks (e.g. : this is Dravidian ``ra`` for  vowel ``r``) the
> problem has hardly been noticed. (I think I have referred to it here and
> there in articles on the Paippalada Atharvaveda; or see Lubotsky in IIJ
> 25 for Maitrayani Samhita /Gujarati practise which is surprisingly
> different from what we learn  in school; cf. also Prof. Rao`s example of
> pronunciation of   vowel R in sandhi ).
>
> You write the following remark:
>
>  To my mind the problem is that if you can't use a transliteration
>> standard to prepare a diplomatic transliteration then there is
>> something wrong with that transliteration standard.  Surely thats the
>> purpose of a transliteration standard. Note that the  rule for
>> normalizing anusvaras to class nasals is a "required rule" and not a
>> recommendation or option.  As you pointed out the normalization of
>> nasals is bad practice for transcribing manuscripts.  The
>> normalization of nasals  was pointed out as a problem in editing
>> manuscripts about 20 years ago on this list:
>>
>
> I think you are mixing up levels, because editing is one thing, and
> preparing a diplomatic transcription is another. Moreover, if a standard is
> not useful and creates more problems that it solves, then there is clearly
> a problem, in this I totally agree with you. However I also do not believe
> that the purpose of this standard was to provide a full guide as to how to
> prepare a diplomatic transcription of manuscripts from all South Asian
> manuscript traditions. In fact, it provides a standard to transliterate
> mainly Devanagari--and related Indic scripts (and this loose definition is
> already problematic). Does the standard provide a rule for distinguishing
> between siromatra and prsthamatra vowels? Then again, why should it?
>
> I think that your question opened a can of worms, and I have to thank you
> a lot for having asked it.
>
> Best wishes,
>
> Camillo
>
>
>


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From jneuss at makroskop.de  Mon Jun 20 19:34:09 2016
From: jneuss at makroskop.de (=?utf-8?Q?J=C3=BCrgen_Neu=C3=9F?=)
Date: Mon, 20 Jun 16 21:34:09 +0200
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Need the article, "What's in a Name?: The Religious Function of the Early Donative Inscriptions"
In-Reply-To: <CANVHsm7E-xcg-S6sCLGOnhs_UjwD0XgCXHsGn5n+=Veb1SZumA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <op.yjdfa7bb6bapky@tapti.fritz.box>

Could someone send me a copy as well, please?

Thanks,

J?rgen

On Mon, 20 Jun 2016 21:18:55 +0200, Manu Francis <manufrancis at gmail.com>  
wrote:

> Dear Rein Ende,
>
> May I request the same?
> With many thanks in advance.
>
> ---
>
> Emmanuel Francis
> Charg? de recherche CNRS, Centre d'?tude de l'Inde et de l'Asie du Sud  
> (UMR 8564, EHESS-CNRS, >Paris)
> http://ceias.ehess.fr/
> http://ceias.ehess.fr/index.php?1725
> http://rcsi.hypotheses.org/
> Associate member, Centre for the Study of Manuscript Culture (SFB 950,  
> Universit?t Hamburg)
> http://www.manuscript-cultures.uni-hamburg.de/index_e.html
> https://cnrs.academia.edu/emmanuelfrancis
>
> 2016-06-20 19:23 GMT+02:00 Sudalaimuthu Palaniappan via INDOLOGY  
> ><indology at list.indology.info>:
>> _______________________________________________
>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing  
>> committee)
>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options  
>> or unsubscribe)
>>
>>
>> ---------- Message transf?r? ----------
>> From: Sudalaimuthu Palaniappan <Palaniappa at aol.com>
>> To: Indology <Indology at list.indology.info>
>> Cc:Date: Mon, 20 Jun 2016 12:22:19 -0500
>> Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] Need the article, "What's in a Name?: The  
>> Religious Function of the >>Early Donative Inscriptions"
>> All,
>>
>> I appreciate Rein Ende sending me the article.
>>
>> Regards,
>> Palaniappan
>>
>>
>>> On Jun 20, 2016, at 10:56 AM, Sudalaimuthu Palaniappan via INDOLOGY  
>>> >>><indology at list.indology.info> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> From: Sudalaimuthu Palaniappan <Palaniappa at aol.com>
>>> Subject: Need the article, "What's in a Name?: The Religious Function  
>>> of the Early >>>Donative Inscriptions"
>>> Date: June 20, 2016 at 10:55:31 AM CDT
>>> To: Indology <Indology at list.indology.info>
>>>
>>>
>>> Dear Indologists,
>>>
>>> I would appreciate if anyone can share the following article by  
>>> Gregory Schopen.
>>>
>>> 'What's in a Name?: The Religious Function of the Early Donative  
>>> Inscriptions', in >>>Unseen Presence: The Buddha and Sanchi, Vidya  
>>> Dehejia (ed.), Mumbai: Marg >>>Publications, 1996, pp. 58-73.Thank you  
>>> very much in advance.
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>> Palaniappan
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing  
>>> committee)
>>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options  
>>> or unsubscribe)
>>
>>
>



-- 
***
J?rgen Neu?
Zwinglistr. 40
10555 Berlin
***


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From franco at uni-leipzig.de  Mon Jun 20 19:38:56 2016
From: franco at uni-leipzig.de (Eli Franco)
Date: Mon, 20 Jun 16 21:38:56 +0200
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Jati as Caste in Nyaya?
In-Reply-To: <CAJGj9eatyq1T04YkDnSkX791mMQdnbfYiLSqk0-94z28jMjTaw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20160620213856.Horde.6Gdqyl7c6EIiOoeWwfumTQ1@mail.uni-leipzig.de>


The latter.
Best wishes, Eli


Zitat von Nagaraj Paturi <nagarajpaturi at gmail.com>:

>> Jitari has written a short treatise on this subject called dvijAtidUSaNa
>
> ----- Does this treatise deal with the jaatitva of brahmaNatva as per
> Nyaya, Mimamsa or Vyakarana darsanas?
>
> or the question of  whether the *j?ti* of Brahmins, etc. is like the *j?ti*
> of cow-ness, etc. in being empirically observable or directly perceivable ?
>
>
>
> On Mon, Jun 20, 2016 at 3:34 PM, Franco <franco at uni-leipzig.de> wrote:
>
>> Jitari has written a short treatise on this subject called dvijAtidUSaNa.
>> It is not yet edited, but I have a preliminary transcription of it. If
>> anyone is interested, please contact me off the list.
>> Best wishes,
>> Eli
>>
>>
>> Sent from my iPad
>>
>> On 19 Jun 2016, at 16:11, Christophe Vielle <
>> christophe.vielle at uclouvain.be> wrote:
>>
>> See also the presentation of the problem of* j**?**ti* in the *meya*
>> portion of the *M?nameyodaya* (2, 3 = *j**?**ti*, 1-18)
>>
>> Kunhan Raja C.  & Suryanarayana Sastri S. S. 21975, *M?nameyodaya of
>> N?r?ya?a B**ha??a and N?r?ya?a Pa??ita (an elementary treatise on the
>> M?m??s?)*, Madras, Adyar Library Series 105,  pp. 233-244.
>> ? p. 243 (17 - Bh???a conclusion):  "Thus is established 'Brahminness'.
>> What apprehends it is the sense of sight itself assisted by the
>> understanding of his being born of a Brahmin father and mother, whose
>> Brahminness is not corrupted; hence it is not non-perceptible either"
>>
>> Cf. also (recognized as one of the main sources of the *M?nameyodaya*)
>> the earlier N?titattv?virbh?va of Cid?nanda (cf. ?d. P. K. Narayana
>> Pillai 1953, *N?titattv?virbh?va of Cid?nandapa??ita*, Trivandrum, TSS
>> 168 ; cf. republ. in K. T. Pandurangi 2008, *Cid?nanda-pa??ita-viracita?,
>> N?titattv?virbh?va?, M?m??s?bh??yapari?i??ena Tantrarahasyena ca sahita?*,
>> Bangalore), the 20th topic of which is *J?tinir?aya*, apparently more
>> directed against the Buddhist views, without dealing with the problem of
>> Brahminhood (abstract in Pandurangi 2008 pp. xvii-viii, EIPh 16, p.
>> 114-15).
>>
>> I did not go into the provided ??likan?tha's text in details (and did not
>> start to search into Prabh?kara's own commentatorial works where the
>> original statements could be found), but from secondary sources, it
>> appears that Bh???as and Pr?bh?karas differ here in the explanation. For
>> both *j**?**ti *is a perceptible category, but the relation of   
>> *j**?**ti* with
>> individual is given as a combination of difference and non-difference for
>> the former, whereas it is difference for the latter, according to whom the
>> apposition (individual - universal) is through inherence. Pr?bh?karas
>> admit the existence of genus/class of substance, but refuse to accept the
>> existence of genus of quality and action.
>> And according to Pr?bh?karas, differently from the case of cowness,
>> Brahminhood or K?atriyahood are not considered as real *j**?**ti*:
>>
>> ? MM p. 239 (- 9): "Although the genus is thus established, the Guru
>> [Prabh?kara] says that, since its cognition is invariably controlled by the
>> knowledge of the earlier form, existence, soundness, Brahminness, etc.
>> which have not that knowledge are non-existent".
>>
>> So the debate referred to could be internal to Mimamsakas rather than
>> between Mimamsakas and Buddhists.
>>
>> Best wishes,
>>
>> Christophe
>>
>> Le 17 juin 2016 ? 20:00, John Taber <jataber at unm.edu> a ?crit :
>>
>> Dear Don et al.,
>>
>> Since Christophe brought up M?m??s?: the relevant passage in Kum?rila is *
>> Tantrav?rttika* ad MS 1.2.2. This is interpreted by Halbfass in the
>> chapter of *Tradition and Reflection* mentioned by Sam Wright. (I look
>> forward to reading his forthcoming article in JIP.)
>>
>> The issue for Kum?rila is mainly the perceptibility of universals, as H.
>> explains. The var?as pose a sort of test case. It's not at all clear that
>> one can just SEE that someone is a brahmin. K. argues that, even though
>> various factors may be required to stimulate perception of a universal - in
>> the case of Brahminhood, for instance, being told the person's lineage - it
>> is perceptible nonetheless. Cf. ?lokav?rttika Vanav?da 26-29, where the
>> problem is discussed in more general terms; other problematic cases are
>> mentioned there (e.g., how does one perceive gheeness in melted ghee? - by
>> smelling or tasting it!). Some universals may be more difficult to perceive
>> than others, but even if one has to climb to the top of a mountain in order
>> to see something (presumably something very far away), that does not make
>> it not perceptible (na hi yad giri???gam ?ruhya g?hyate tad apratyak?am, TV
>> 1.2.2).
>>
>> There may be certain cultural prejudices in the background of Kum?rila's
>> discussion (here I'm thinking of what Dominik wrote and some of the things
>> Halbfass says: Brahminhood is *determined* by a universal, not by
>> conduct; it is *inherent* in someone; there's certainly no social
>> mobility here!), but ultimately I think he is concerned to defend the
>> notion that real (eternal) universals, which are perceptible, as opposed to
>> the pseudo-universals of the Buddhists (apohas), are the meanings of words.
>> Since the universal cowness is perceptible, we can SEE that that is the
>> meaning of the word "cow" when someone points to a cow and says, "That is
>> called a cow." Otherwise, it is not clear how the connected between word
>> and meaning could ever be established.
>>
>> Cheers again,
>> JT
>>
>>
>> On Jun 17, 2016, at 7:08 AM, Christophe Vielle <
>> christophe.vielle at uclouvain.be> wrote:
>>
>> Dear Don,
>>
>> The problem is also epistemologically discussed by the
>> Prabhakara-mimamsaka ??likan?tha in the *Prakara?apa?cik?*, *prakara?a* 4
>> : *J?tinir?aya*
>>
>>  See short abstract of this chapter in
>>
>> Potter K. H. ?d. 2014, *Philosophy of P?rva-**M?m??s?*, Delhi,
>> Encyclopedia of Indian Philosophies 16, pp. 308-309 (relying on Verpoorten
>> and Pandurangi)
>>
>> The 1961 Benares edition of the PP is available here :
>>
>> http://www.new.dli.ernet.in/handle/2015/383225
>>
>> (better scan than :
>>
>> http://www.dli.ernet.in/handle/2015/541509
>>
>> http://www.dli.ernet.in/handle/2015/311115  )
>>
>> Here below an extract of the Sansknet input on GRETIL
>>
>>
>> http://gretil.sub.uni-goettingen.de/gretil/1_sanskr/6_sastra/3_phil/mimamsa/prakp04u.htm
>>
>>
>> (?)
>>
>> tad idam apahastitam, yad ?hu?
>>
>> "?abdatvam eva tattadas?dh?ra??bhivya?jakadhvaninibandhanatay?
>> n?n?var?ape?a vi?ay?bhavat tasya tasy?rthasy?vagam?ya kalpata" iti /
>>
>> *br?hma?atv?dij?ti*nir?kara?am /
>>
>> anayaiva ca di?? br?hma?atv?dij?tir api niv?rit? /
>>
>> nahi n?n?str?puru?avyakti?u
>> puru?atv?darth?ntarabh?tamekam?k?ram?tmas?tkurv?nt? matir?virbhavati /
>>
>> nahi k?atriy?dibhyo vy?vartam?na?
>> sakalabr?hma?e?vanuvartam?namekam?k?ramaticiramanusandadhato 'pi budhyante /
>>
>> yadapy?hu?- yadyapy?p?tasa?j?tay? dhiy? br?hma?ya? n?vas?yate, tath?pi
>> br?hma?abh?tam?t?pit?sambandh?nusandh?naprabhav?y?? banddhau taccak?st?ti /
>>
>> tadapi ca svam?nasavisa?v?di /
>>
>> anusandadh?no 'pi m?t?pit?sambandha? ko j?tvekam?k?ramavaboddhu?
>> prabhavati /
>>
>> yaccopadar?itam---yath? vil?nam?jya? tail?davyatiricyam?na?
>> gandhagraha?asahak?ri?? cak?u?aiva bhinnamavagamtaya---iti /
>>
>> tadapi na sundaram /
>>
>> nahi tad?n?? c?k?u?asya sa?vedanasya vi?ay?tireka?, kintvanum?nameva tatra
>> sarpi?a? /
>>
>> yastu nipu?adar?o s?k?mamapi r?pam?k?itu? k?ama?, sa cak?u?aiv?jyaj?timapi
>> pratyeti, na gandhagraha?amapek?ate /
>>
>> nanveva? bahvavah?nam, ki?nibandhano hi tad?n?m?havan?y?dis?dhyakarmasu
>> ke???cidadhik?ro n?nye??m; ki?nibandhan? ca *br?hma?a?abda*sya
>> prav?ttivyavasth? iti /
>>
>> atrocyate /
>>
>> an?dau sa?s?re janyajanakabh?vena vyavasthit?st?vat k??cideva
>> str?puru?asantataya? santi, t?s?m anyonyavyatikare?a j?t??
>> str?pu?savyaktayo *br?hma?a?abdav?cy??* /
>>
>> anidamprathamatay? ca santate? sarve??? tatsantatipatitatv?t *siddh?
>> br?hma?a?abdav?cyat? /*
>>
>> tena santativi?e?aprabhavatvameva br?hma?a?abdaprav?tt?v up?dhi? /
>>
>> tatprabhav?n?meva karmasvadhik?ra iti na ki?cidavah?nam /
>>
>> ke punaste santativi?e??? /
>>
>> na te pariga?ayya nirde??u? ?akyante, kintu lokata eva prasiddh??
>> pratyetavy?? /
>>
>> tath? ca tajjanyatve 'vagate br?hma?a?abda? prayu?jate lok?? /
>>
>> (?)
>> Best wishes,
>>
>> Christophe
>>
>> Le 16 juin 2016 ? 20:41, Donald R Davis <drdj at austin.utexas.edu> a ?crit :
>>
>> My thanks to Sam Wright who pointed me to the following:
>>
>> Wilhelm Halbfass, ?Homo Hierarchicus: The Conceptualization of the Varna
>> System in Indian Thought,? in *Tradition and Reflecton*. SUNY Press,
>> 1991. [contains a long discussion of the jati as caste and as universal in
>> the works of several authors, including Jayanta and, especially, Kumarila
>> on pp. 363ff.]
>>
>> Samuel Wright, "History in the Abstract: ?Brahman-ness? and the Discipline
>> of Nyaya in Seventeenth-Century Varanasi.? *Journal of Indian Philosophy*,
>> forthcoming.
>>
>> The issue is discussed on page 204 in Sukla, S. N. (Ed.). (1971).  
>> *Nya?yama?jari?
>> of Jayanta Bhat?t?a (Part I)*. The Kashi Sanskrit Series 106, Nyaya
>> Section No. 15. Varanasi: Chowkhamba Sanskrit Series Office.
>>
>> Best, Don
>>
>> From: INDOLOGY <indology-bounces at list.indology.info> on behalf of
>> Johannes Bronkhorst <johannes.bronkhorst at unil.ch>
>> Date: Thursday, June 16, 2016 at 11:40 AM
>> To: rajam <rajam at earthlink.net>
>> Cc: Dominik Wujastyk <wujastyk at gmail.com>, "indology at list.indology.info" <
>> indology at list.indology.info>
>> Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] J?ti as Caste in Ny?ya?
>>
>> Vincent Eltschinger?s *? Caste ? et philosophie bouddhique* (Vienna 2000)
>> seems relevant in this connection. An English version of this book is also
>> available:
>>
>> *Caste and Buddhist Philosophy: Continuity of Some Buddhist Arguments
>> Against the Realist Interpretation of Social Denominations* (Motilal
>> Banarsidass 2012)
>> Johannes
>>
>> On 16 juin 2016, at 18:37, rajam <rajam at earthlink.net> wrote:
>>
>> Many thanks to the originator of this thread!
>>
>> Right now, I just want to register the fact that I?m very much interested
>> in this topic.
>>
>> Last year (May 2015), I had a publication (in Tamil) about references to,
>> or a lack there of, ?j?ti? and ?caste? (as we understand it today) in Old
>> Tamil literature/grammar, also known as Sangam literature/grammar.
>>
>> I don?t know how many of you are aware of the fact that the English
>> word ?caste? has its origin in the Portuguese word ?casta,? which was first
>> recorded in *Arte da Lingua Malabar* written by Fr. Henrique Henriques in
>> the mid-16th century.
>>
>> If one wants to dig deep into the understanding of the terms such as
>> ?j?ti? and ?caste? ? one has to have a minimal understanding of the origins
>> of the Western contact with India, which happened in the early 16-th
>> century through Portuguese arrival in South India.
>>
>> Thanks and regards,
>> V.S.Rajam
>>
>>
>> On Jun 16, 2016, at 8:53 AM, Dominik Wujastyk <wujastyk at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> ?Dear Don,
>>
>> This interests me a lot, and I'd be grateful to read what you might write
>> about it in future.  It's on my back-burner, but I've long wondered whether
>> Sanskritic narratives about jati and varna can be thought about in ways
>> similar to eighteenth and nineteenth century European narratives about
>> races and species.  Were people of different varnas formally considered to
>> be of different "species?"   It's a bit shocking to think in these terms,
>> but I've been wondering about it.  If you ever put flesh on these bones,
>> one way or another, or can point me to existing discussions on this, I'd be
>> really interested.
>>
>> Best,
>> Dominik
>>
>> --
>> Professor Dominik Wujastyk* <http://ualberta.academia.edu/DominikWujastyk>
>> Singhmar Chair in Classical Indian Society and Polity
>> Department of History and Classics
>> <http://historyandclassics.ualberta.ca/>
>> University of Alberta, Canada
>>
>> On 16 June 2016 at 08:53, Donald R Davis <drdj at austin.utexas.edu> wrote:
>>
>>> Dear Colleagues,
>>>
>>> I would be grateful for additional references to an argument mentioned in
>>> Jayanta Bhatta?s *?gama?ambara* 4.143-4 (in Dezso?s edition in the Clay
>>> series).  The question is whether the *j?ti* of Brahmins, etc. is like
>>> the *j?ti* of cow-ness, etc. in being empirically observable or directly
>>> perceivable.  Jayanta refers to those who say that verbal/textual testimony
>>> alone (*?abdam?tre?a*) establishes the four-*var?a* system.  This
>>> prefigures an argument made in Vij??ne?vara?s *Mit?k?ar?* (on Yaj 1.90)
>>> where the same distinction is drawn to refute an objection.
>>>
>>> I assumed Jayanta would have made a similar argument in his *
>>> Ny?yama?jar?*, but I have not been able to locate it (probably because I
>>> barely know the Ny?ya literature).  If anyone could point me toward other
>>> instances of this issue, whether in original sources or contemporary
>>> research, I?d appreciate it.
>>>
>>> Best,
>>>
>>> Don Davis
>>> Dept of Asian Studies
>>> University of Texas at Austin
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
>>> committee)
>>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
>>> unsubscribe)
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
>> committee)
>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
>> unsubscribe)
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
>> committee)
>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
>> unsubscribe)
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
>> committee)
>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
>> unsubscribe)
>>
>>
>> ???????????????????
>> Christophe Vielle <http://www.uclouvain.be/christophe.vielle>
>> Louvain-la-Neuve
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
>> committee)
>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
>> unsubscribe)
>>
>>
>>
>> ???????????????????
>> Christophe Vielle <http://www.uclouvain.be/christophe.vielle>
>> Louvain-la-Neuve
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
>> committee)
>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
>> unsubscribe)
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
>> committee)
>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
>> unsubscribe)
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Nagaraj Paturi
>
> Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.
>
> Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies
>
> FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of  Liberal Education,
>
> (Pune, Maharashtra, INDIA )


-- 
Prof. Dr. Eli Franco
Institut f?r Indologie und Zentralasienwissenschaften
Schillerstr. 6
04109 Leipzig

Ph. +49 341 9737 121, 9737 120 (dept. office)
Fax +49 341 9737 148







From andrew.ollett at gmail.com  Mon Jun 20 19:45:59 2016
From: andrew.ollett at gmail.com (Andrew Ollett)
Date: Mon, 20 Jun 16 21:45:59 +0200
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Need the article, "What's in a Name?: The Religious Function of the Early Donative Inscriptions"
In-Reply-To: <op.yjdfa7bb6bapky@tapti.fritz.box>
Message-ID: <CAANHO15LUH4W23Dnht0yEqSQMVG-34EepWE1ZSLYs3q=sJuxqA@mail.gmail.com>

in case it is useful to anyone else:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/c2jdtt4wqcozdxi/schopen1996-whats_in_a_name.pdf?dl=0

On Mon, Jun 20, 2016 at 9:34 PM, J?rgen Neu? <jneuss at makroskop.de> wrote:

> Could someone send me a copy as well, please?
>
> Thanks,
>
> J?rgen
>
> On Mon, 20 Jun 2016 21:18:55 +0200, Manu Francis <manufrancis at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> Dear Rein Ende,
>
> May I request the same?
> With many thanks in advance.
>
> ---
>
> Emmanuel Francis
> Charg? de recherche CNRS, Centre d'?tude de l'Inde et de l'Asie du Sud
> (UMR 8564, EHESS-CNRS, Paris)
> http://ceias.ehess.fr/
> http://ceias.ehess.fr/index.php?1725
> http://rcsi.hypotheses.org/
> Associate member, Centre for the Study of Manuscript Culture (SFB 950,
> Universit?t Hamburg)
> http://www.manuscript-cultures.uni-hamburg.de/index_e.html
> https://cnrs.academia.edu/emmanuelfrancis
>
> 2016-06-20 19:23 GMT+02:00 Sudalaimuthu Palaniappan via INDOLOGY <
> indology at list.indology.info>:
>
>> _______________________________________________
>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
>> committee)
>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
>> unsubscribe)
>>
>>
>> ---------- Message transf?r? ----------
>> From: Sudalaimuthu Palaniappan <Palaniappa at aol.com>
>> To: Indology <Indology at list.indology.info>
>> Cc:
>> Date: Mon, 20 Jun 2016 12:22:19 -0500
>> Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] Need the article, "What's in a Name?: The
>> Religious Function of the Early Donative Inscriptions"
>> All,
>>
>> I appreciate Rein Ende sending me the article.
>>
>> Regards,
>> Palaniappan
>>
>>
>> On Jun 20, 2016, at 10:56 AM, Sudalaimuthu Palaniappan via INDOLOGY <
>> indology at list.indology.info> wrote:
>>
>>
>> *From: *Sudalaimuthu Palaniappan <Palaniappa at aol.com>
>> *Subject: **Need the article, "What's in a Name?: The Religious Function
>> of the Early Donative Inscriptions"*
>> *Date: *June 20, 2016 at 10:55:31 AM CDT
>> *To: *Indology <Indology at list.indology.info>
>>
>>
>> Dear Indologists,
>>
>> I would appreciate if anyone can share the following article by Gregory
>> Schopen.
>>
>> 'What's in a Name?: The Religious Function of the Early Donative
>> Inscriptions', in Unseen Presence: The Buddha and Sanchi, Vidya Dehejia
>> (ed.), Mumbai: Marg Publications, 1996, pp. 58-73.
>> Thank you very much in advance.
>>
>> Regards,
>> Palaniappan
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
>> committee)
>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
>> unsubscribe)
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
> --
> ***
> J?rgen Neu?
> Zwinglistr. 40
> 10555 Berlin
> ***
>
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
> committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
> unsubscribe)
>


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From h.arganisjuarez at yahoo.com.mx  Mon Jun 20 21:25:44 2016
From: h.arganisjuarez at yahoo.com.mx (Horacio Francisco Arganis Juarez)
Date: Mon, 20 Jun 16 21:25:44 +0000
Subject: For contemporary studies of India only
In-Reply-To: <330750572.6900232.1466457944596.JavaMail.yahoo.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <330750572.6900232.1466457944596.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>

Dears Professors:Regards. May be can be use for some one. ?Let me pass this list of categorical characters consider by hindus people like hostils to They culture and ancenstral religion:A LIST OF THE 50 BIGGEST ENEMIES OF HINDUS (Dead or Alive) by Francois Gautier - SatyaVijayi

| ? |
| ? |  | ? | ? | ? | ? | ? |
| A LIST OF THE 50 BIGGEST ENEMIES OF HINDUS (De...Source Hindus should at least know who are their enemies. Jews have shown us that to remember, helps to make sure that atrocities do not happen again. Let us not fo... |
|  |
| Ver en satyavijayi.com | Vista previa por Yahoo |
|  |
| ? |


?Dr. Horacio Francisco Arganis Ju?rez Lic. M.A. Ph. D. Catedr?tico Investigador de la Universidad Internacional Euroamericana. Departamento de Filosof?a y Religi?n Comparada. www.uie.edu.es


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From psdmccartney at gmail.com  Tue Jun 21 01:54:14 2016
From: psdmccartney at gmail.com (patrick mccartney)
Date: Tue, 21 Jun 16 11:54:14 +1000
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Jati as Caste in Nyaya?
In-Reply-To: <184757C3-AE57-4D05-A5C7-A5575EC1857F@uclouvain.be>
Message-ID: <CAEzwJrCNHxW+rwng87iFOdA6EZ=tb5OMwXxz1anxqkuy38E3tw@mail.gmail.com>

While perhaps a little off topic, below I have included what is an
interesting, contemporary inclusion to this discussion on jati, etc found
in NCERT's 12th grade high school text book. In chapter 3, pp 42-> .

This link will take you to the pdf of ch. 3.
http://epathshala.nic.in/wp-content/doc/book/flipbook/Class%20XII/12111-Indian%20Society-Sociology/Chapter%203/docs/Chapter%203.pdf

While there is nothing really 'new' here to add to this interesting
discussion I think it is interesting, nonetheless, to see how these ideas
find their way into school text books. The following is part of the text
from pp 42-43. However, the discussion goes on for a few pages.

p42
*As is well-known, the English word ?caste? is actually a borrowing from
the Portuguese casta, meaning pure breed. The word refers to a broad
institutional arrangement that in Indian languages (beginning with the
ancient Sanskrit) is referred to by two distinct terms, varna and jati.
Varna, literally ?colour?, is the name given to a four-fold division of
society into brahmana, kshatriya, vaishya and shudra, though this excludes
a significant section of the population composed of the ?outcastes?,
foreigners, slaves, conquered peoples and others, sometimes refered to as
the panchamas or fifth category. Jati is a generic term referring to
species or kinds of anything, ranging from inanimate objects to plants,
animals and human beings. Jati is the word most commonly used to refer to
the institution of caste in Indian languages, though it is interesting to
note that, increasingly, Indian language speakers are beginning to use the
English word ?caste?.*

*The precise relationship between varna and jati has been the subject of
much speculation and debate among scholars. The most common interpretation
is to treat varna as a broad all-India aggregative classification, while
jati is taken to be a regional or local sub-classification involving a much
more complex system consisting of hundreds or even thousands of castes and
sub-castes. *

p43
*This means that while the four varna classification is common to all of
India, the jati hierarchy has more local classifications that vary from
region to region*.




All the best,

Patrick McCartney, PhD
School of Culture, History & Language
College of the Asia-Pacific
The Australian National University
Canberra, Australia, 0200


Skype - psdmccartney
Phone + Whatsapp:  +61 414 954 748
Twitter - @psdmccartney

academia <https://anu-au.academia.edu/patrickmccartney>

   -

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#yogabodyANU2016 symposium
<http://chl.anu.edu.au/news-events/events/658/yoga-and-body-past-and-present-symposium?#tab>

<http://chl.anu.edu.au/news-events/events/658/yoga-and-body-past-and-present-symposium?#tab>

Ep1 - Imagining Sanskrit Land <https://youtu.be/jMi7tkPBbJ4>

Ep 2 - Total-am <https://youtu.be/7tAp8m9RHPU>

Ep 3 - Jalam ? Chillum <https://youtu.be/cLZeuCT_mwQ>

A Day in our Ashram
<https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=ek+din+hamaare+ashram+mein>

Stop animation short film of Shakuntala
<https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LVqBD_2P4Pg>

Forced to Clean Human Waste <http://youtu.be/y3XfjbwqC_g>

One of my favourite song <http://trinityroots.bandcamp.com/track/all-we-be>s





On Fri, Jun 17, 2016 at 11:08 PM, Christophe Vielle <
christophe.vielle at uclouvain.be> wrote:

> Dear Don,
>
> The problem is also epistemologically discussed by the
> Prabhakara-mimamsaka ??likan?tha in the *Prakara?apa?cik?*, *prakara?a* 4
> : *J?tinir?aya*
>
>  See short abstract of this chapter in
>
> Potter K. H. ?d. 2014, *Philosophy of P?rva-**M?m??s?*, Delhi,
> Encyclopedia of Indian Philosophies 16, pp. 308-309 (relying on Verpoorten
> and Pandurangi)
>
> The 1961 Benares edition of the PP is available here :
>
> http://www.new.dli.ernet.in/handle/2015/383225
>
> (better scan than :
>
> http://www.dli.ernet.in/handle/2015/541509
>
> http://www.dli.ernet.in/handle/2015/311115  )
>
> Here below an extract of the Sansknet input on GRETIL
>
>
> http://gretil.sub.uni-goettingen.de/gretil/1_sanskr/6_sastra/3_phil/mimamsa/prakp04u.htm
>
>
> (?)
>
> tad idam apahastitam, yad ?hu?
>
> "?abdatvam eva tattadas?dh?ra??bhivya?jakadhvaninibandhanatay?
> n?n?var?ape?a vi?ay?bhavat tasya tasy?rthasy?vagam?ya kalpata" iti /
>
> *br?hma?atv?dij?ti*nir?kara?am /
>
> anayaiva ca di?? br?hma?atv?dij?tir api niv?rit? /
>
> nahi n?n?str?puru?avyakti?u
> puru?atv?darth?ntarabh?tamekam?k?ram?tmas?tkurv?nt? matir?virbhavati /
>
> nahi k?atriy?dibhyo vy?vartam?na?
> sakalabr?hma?e?vanuvartam?namekam?k?ramaticiramanusandadhato 'pi budhyante /
>
> yadapy?hu?- 79yadyapy?p?tasa?j?tay? dhiy? br?hma?ya? n?vas?yate, tath?pi
> br?hma?abh?tam?t?pit?sambandh?nusandh?naprabhav?y?? banddhau taccak?st?ti /
>
> tadapi ca svam?nasavisa?v?di /
>
> anusandadh?no 'pi m?t?pit?sambandha? ko j?tvekam?k?ramavaboddhu?
> prabhavati /
>
> yaccopadar?itam---yath? vil?nam?jya? tail?davyatiricyam?na?
> gandhagraha?asahak?ri?? cak?u?aiva bhinnamavagamtaya---iti /
>
> tadapi na sundaram /
>
> nahi tad?n?? c?k?u?asya sa?vedanasya vi?ay?tireka?, kintvanum?nameva tatra
> sarpi?a? /
>
> yastu nipu?adar?o s?k?mamapi r?pam?k?itu? k?ama?, sa cak?u?aiv?jyaj?timapi
> pratyeti, na gandhagraha?amapek?ate /
>
> nanveva? bahvavah?nam, ki?nibandhano hi tad?n?m?havan?y?dis?dhyakarmasu
> ke???cidadhik?ro n?nye??m; ki?nibandhan? ca *br?hma?a?abda*sya
> prav?ttivyavasth? iti /
>
> atrocyate /
>
> an?dau sa?s?re janyajanakabh?vena vyavasthit?st?vat k??cideva
> str?puru?asantataya? santi, t?s?manyonyavyatikare?a j?t?? str?pu?savyaktayo
> br?hma?a?abdav?cy?? /
>
> anidamprathamatay? ca santate? sarve??? tatsantatipatitatv?t siddh?
> br?hma?a?abdav?cyat? /
>
> tena santativi?e?aprabhavatvameva br?hma?a?abdaprav?tt?vup?dhi? /
>
> tatprabhav?n?meva karmasvadhik?ra iti na ki?cidavah?nam /
>
> ke punaste santativi?e??? /
>
> na te pariga?ayya nirde??u? ?akyante, kintu lokata eva prasiddh??
> pratyetavy?? /
>
> tath? ca tajjanyatve 'vagate br?hma?a?abda? prayu?jate lok?? /
>
> (?)
> Best wishes,
>
> Christophe
>
> Le 16 juin 2016 ? 20:41, Donald R Davis <drdj at austin.utexas.edu> a ?crit :
>
> My thanks to Sam Wright who pointed me to the following:
>
> Wilhelm Halbfass, ?Homo Hierarchicus: The Conceptualization of the Varna
> System in Indian Thought,? in *Tradition and Reflecton*. SUNY Press,
> 1991. [contains a long discussion of the jati as caste and as universal in
> the works of several authors, including Jayanta and, especially, Kumarila
> on pp. 363ff.]
>
> Samuel Wright, "History in the Abstract: ?Brahman-ness? and the Discipline
> of Nyaya in Seventeenth-Century Varanasi.? *Journal of Indian Philosophy*,
> forthcoming.
>
> The issue is discussed on page 204 in Sukla, S. N. (Ed.). (1971). *Nya?yama?jari?
> of Jayanta Bhat?t?a (Part I)*. The Kashi Sanskrit Series 106, Nyaya
> Section No. 15. Varanasi: Chowkhamba Sanskrit Series Office.
>
> Best, Don
>
> From: INDOLOGY <indology-bounces at list.indology.info> on behalf of
> Johannes Bronkhorst <johannes.bronkhorst at unil.ch>
> Date: Thursday, June 16, 2016 at 11:40 AM
> To: rajam <rajam at earthlink.net>
> Cc: Dominik Wujastyk <wujastyk at gmail.com>, "indology at list.indology.info" <
> indology at list.indology.info>
> Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] J?ti as Caste in Ny?ya?
>
> Vincent Eltschinger?s *? Caste ? et philosophie bouddhique* (Vienna 2000)
> seems relevant in this connection. An English version of this book is also
> available:
>
> *Caste and Buddhist Philosophy: Continuity of Some Buddhist Arguments
> Against the Realist Interpretation of Social Denominations* (Motilal
> Banarsidass 2012)
> Johannes
>
> On 16 juin 2016, at 18:37, rajam <rajam at earthlink.net> wrote:
>
> Many thanks to the originator of this thread!
>
> Right now, I just want to register the fact that I?m very much interested
> in this topic.
>
> Last year (May 2015), I had a publication (in Tamil) about references to,
> or a lack there of, ?j?ti? and ?caste? (as we understand it today) in Old
> Tamil literature/grammar, also known as Sangam literature/grammar.
>
> I don?t know how many of you are aware of the fact that the English
> word ?caste? has its origin in the Portuguese word ?casta,? which was first
> recorded in *Arte da Lingua Malabar* written by Fr. Henrique Henriques in
> the mid-16th century.
>
> If one wants to dig deep into the understanding of the terms such as
> ?j?ti? and ?caste? ? one has to have a minimal understanding of the origins
> of the Western contact with India, which happened in the early 16-th
> century through Portuguese arrival in South India.
>
> Thanks and regards,
> V.S.Rajam
>
>
> On Jun 16, 2016, at 8:53 AM, Dominik Wujastyk <wujastyk at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> ?Dear Don,
>
> This interests me a lot, and I'd be grateful to read what you might write
> about it in future.  It's on my back-burner, but I've long wondered whether
> Sanskritic narratives about jati and varna can be thought about in ways
> similar to eighteenth and nineteenth century European narratives about
> races and species.  Were people of different varnas formally considered to
> be of different "species?"   It's a bit shocking to think in these terms,
> but I've been wondering about it.  If you ever put flesh on these bones,
> one way or another, or can point me to existing discussions on this, I'd be
> really interested.
>
> Best,
> Dominik
>
> --
> Professor Dominik Wujastyk* <http://ualberta.academia.edu/DominikWujastyk>
> Singhmar Chair in Classical Indian Society and Polity
> Department of History and Classics
> <http://historyandclassics.ualberta.ca/>
> University of Alberta, Canada
>
> On 16 June 2016 at 08:53, Donald R Davis <drdj at austin.utexas.edu> wrote:
>
>> Dear Colleagues,
>>
>> I would be grateful for additional references to an argument mentioned in
>> Jayanta Bhatta?s *?gama?ambara* 4.143-4 (in Dezso?s edition in the Clay
>> series).  The question is whether the *j?ti* of Brahmins, etc. is like
>> the *j?ti* of cow-ness, etc. in being empirically observable or directly
>> perceivable.  Jayanta refers to those who say that verbal/textual testimony
>> alone (*?abdam?tre?a*) establishes the four-*var?a* system.  This
>> prefigures an argument made in Vij??ne?vara?s *Mit?k?ar?* (on Yaj 1.90)
>> where the same distinction is drawn to refute an objection.
>>
>> I assumed Jayanta would have made a similar argument in his *
>> Ny?yama?jar?*, but I have not been able to locate it (probably because I
>> barely know the Ny?ya literature).  If anyone could point me toward other
>> instances of this issue, whether in original sources or contemporary
>> research, I?d appreciate it.
>>
>> Best,
>>
>> Don Davis
>> Dept of Asian Studies
>> University of Texas at Austin
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
>> committee)
>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
>> unsubscribe)
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
> committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
> unsubscribe)
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
> committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
> unsubscribe)
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
> committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
> unsubscribe)
>
>
> ???????????????????
> Christophe Vielle <http://www.uclouvain.be/christophe.vielle>
> Louvain-la-Neuve
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
> committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
> unsubscribe)
>


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From clemency.montelle at canterbury.ac.nz  Tue Jun 21 10:13:35 2016
From: clemency.montelle at canterbury.ac.nz (Clemency Montelle)
Date: Tue, 21 Jun 16 10:13:35 +0000
Subject: [INDOLOGY] PhD Scholarship in history of Indian mathematical sciences, University of Canterbury New Zealand
Message-ID: <373FE003EA3D2949BCC16219C67CBBF77FB5C303@UCEXMBX04-I.canterbury.ac.nz>

Dear Colleagues,

This is to announce a 3-year fully funded PhD Scholarship in the History of Indian Mathematical Sciences
supervised by Dr Clemency Montelle and Dr Kim Plofker at the University of Canterbury, New Zealand.

Applications due 29 July 2016 and start date negotiable.

Details attached and below.

Please don't hesitate to contact me for further information and please do encourage eligible candidates to apply.

With best wishes,
Dr Clemency Montelle


http://www.math.canterbury.ac.nz/~c.montelle/
School of Mathematics and Statistics
University of Canterbury | Te Whare Wananga o Waitaha
Private Bag 4800, Christchurch 8140
NEW ZEALAND

---


An international project on the history of mathematical sciences in Sanskrit sources has been awarded a five-year grant from New Zealand?s funds for research excellence, the Rutherford Discovery Fellows, administered by the Royal Society of New Zealand.


The 5-year project is entitled ?New perspectives on the history of the exact sciences in second millennium Sanskrit sources?.


As part of the activities of this project, the investigators are offering a PhD scholarship. The scholarship will provide an annual living allowance/stipend of NZ$20,000 and full tuition costs while in New Zealand. It is tenable for study towards the degree of Doctor of Philosophy in the appropriate department or program on the topic of the history of math- ematical sciences, at the University of Canterbury, Christchurch, New Zealand (http://www.canterbury.ac.nz/).


The successful awardee will research and write a PhD thesis under a supervisory committee including the Principal Investigator, Dr Clemency Montelle, Associate Investigator, Dr Kim Plofker, and, where appropriate, scholars at associated institution(s). The thesis topic will relate to the project goals, and focus on some aspect of second millennium Sanskrit exact sciences e.g., a critical edition with translation and commentary of a previously unpublished text on Sanskrit computational astronomy or mathematics, or related disciplines.



This email may be confidential and subject to legal privilege, it may
not reflect the views of the University of Canterbury, and it is not
guaranteed to be virus free. If you are not an intended recipient,
please notify the sender immediately and erase all copies of the message
and any attachments.

Please refer to http://www.canterbury.ac.nz/emaildisclaimer for more
information.


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From hr at ivs.edu  Tue Jun 21 14:08:11 2016
From: hr at ivs.edu (Howard Resnick)
Date: Tue, 21 Jun 16 07:08:11 -0700
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Indra
Message-ID: <E4CA6CDD-17C1-403B-964E-E7AD237E300A@ivs.edu>

Greetings,

	I need specific references from the RV, and other Vedic texts, describing Indra?s visible appearence, especially hair color which I believe is said to be golden, or perhaps the color of sunshine etc. My sincere thanks for all help.

Best,
Howard




From ondracka at ff.cuni.cz  Tue Jun 21 14:16:16 2016
From: ondracka at ff.cuni.cz (Lubomir Ondracka)
Date: Tue, 21 Jun 16 16:16:16 +0200
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Indra
In-Reply-To: <E4CA6CDD-17C1-403B-964E-E7AD237E300A@ivs.edu>
Message-ID: <20160621161616.005f0cc0617a6e744f6a462b@ff.cuni.cz>

Dear Howard,

standard reference tools will easily answer your question, see e.g. entry on Indra in Macdonell's Vedic Mythology (for verses about his physical appearence, see pp. 54-55).

Best,
Lubomir


On Tue, 21 Jun 2016 07:08:11 -0700
Howard Resnick <hr at ivs.edu> wrote:

> Greetings,
> 
> 	I need specific references from the RV, and other Vedic texts, describing Indra?s visible appearence, especially hair color which I believe is said to be golden, or perhaps the color of sunshine etc. My sincere thanks for all help.
> 
> Best,
> Howard
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe)





From hr at ivs.edu  Tue Jun 21 16:17:17 2016
From: hr at ivs.edu (Howard Resnick)
Date: Tue, 21 Jun 16 09:17:17 -0700
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Indra
In-Reply-To: <20160621161616.005f0cc0617a6e744f6a462b@ff.cuni.cz>
Message-ID: <5C9C2285-5A68-4609-9FE2-3A6CF8B16345@ivs.edu>

Than you Lubomir. Unfortunately, I am away from reference tools right now, and would appreciate verse references. 
Best,
Howard

> On Jun 21, 2016, at 7:16 AM, Lubomir Ondracka <ondracka at ff.cuni.cz> wrote:
> 
> Dear Howard,
> 
> standard reference tools will easily answer your question, see e.g. entry on Indra in Macdonell's Vedic Mythology (for verses about his physical appearence, see pp. 54-55).
> 
> Best,
> Lubomir
> 
> 
> On Tue, 21 Jun 2016 07:08:11 -0700
> Howard Resnick <hr at ivs.edu> wrote:
> 
>> Greetings,
>> 
>> 	I need specific references from the RV, and other Vedic texts, describing Indra?s visible appearence, especially hair color which I believe is said to be golden, or perhaps the color of sunshine etc. My sincere thanks for all help.
>> 
>> Best,
>> Howard
>> _______________________________________________
>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee)
>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe)
> 






From wujastyk at gmail.com  Tue Jun 21 21:03:36 2016
From: wujastyk at gmail.com (Dominik Wujastyk)
Date: Tue, 21 Jun 16 15:03:36 -0600
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Indra
In-Reply-To: <5C9C2285-5A68-4609-9FE2-3A6CF8B16345@ivs.edu>
Message-ID: <CAKdt-CdnMWLwAEfg+YPzO2QhcsEcmT4gkFMN3RbksD568YkPvA@mail.gmail.com>

https://archive.org/details/vedicmythology00macduoft
<https://archive.org/details/vedicmythology00macduoft>

para 22.

--
Professor Dominik Wujastyk* <http://ualberta.Academia.edu/DominikWujastyk>
Singhmar Chair in Classical Indian Society and Polity
Department of History and Classics <http://historyandclassics.ualberta.ca/>
University of Alberta, Canada

On 21 June 2016 at 10:17, Howard Resnick <hr at ivs.edu> wrote:

> Than you Lubomir. Unfortunately, I am away from reference tools right now,
> and would appreciate verse references.
> Best,
> Howard
>
> > On Jun 21, 2016, at 7:16 AM, Lubomir Ondracka <ondracka at ff.cuni.cz>
> wrote:
> >
> > Dear Howard,
> >
> > standard reference tools will easily answer your question, see e.g.
> entry on Indra in Macdonell's Vedic Mythology (for verses about his
> physical appearence, see pp. 54-55).
> >
> > Best,
> > Lubomir
> >
> >
> > On Tue, 21 Jun 2016 07:08:11 -0700
> > Howard Resnick <hr at ivs.edu> wrote:
> >
> >> Greetings,
> >>
> >>      I need specific references from the RV, and other Vedic texts,
> describing Indra?s visible appearence, especially hair color which I
> believe is said to be golden, or perhaps the color of sunshine etc. My
> sincere thanks for all help.
> >>
> >> Best,
> >> Howard
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> INDOLOGY mailing list
> >> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> >> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
> committee)
> >> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options
> or unsubscribe)
> >
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
> committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
> unsubscribe)
>


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From mmdesh at umich.edu  Wed Jun 22 14:29:47 2016
From: mmdesh at umich.edu (Madhav Deshpande)
Date: Wed, 22 Jun 16 10:29:47 -0400
Subject: [INDOLOGY] My salutation to Pune
Message-ID: <CAB3-dzd22Xu=C5vG_R4xOQb4S9jhfOB9yWo0hdooO_jt_4iMqQ@mail.gmail.com>

My salutation to Pune (after reaching home in Ann Arbor):

?? ?????? ???? ??? ?????? ?????? ???? ??????: ?
??????????????????????????????????? ???????: ??
??????????????????: ?? ??? ????? ?????????? ?
?????????? ? ????????? ????? ??? ??????????????? ??

"That is the City of Pune that raised me for long in happiness, where I was
trained for long with great effort by teachers who were my guiding lights,
and where I found great friendship with many wonderful friends. I cannot
forget that City of Pune, even though I am far away from it."

Madhav M. Deshpande

-- 
Madhav M. Deshpande
Professor of Sanskrit and Linguistics
Department of Asian Languages and Cultures
202 South Thayer Street, Suite 6111
The University of Michigan
Ann Arbor, MI 48104-1608, USA


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From mmdesh at umich.edu  Thu Jun 23 00:44:45 2016
From: mmdesh at umich.edu (Madhav Deshpande)
Date: Wed, 22 Jun 16 20:44:45 -0400
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Some more verses on Pune
Message-ID: <CAB3-dzfo_AahiCgGnC1QWE=T6M95c-UETQCo2FhOETxMbpBMXA@mail.gmail.com>

?????????? ?????? ?? ??????????? ??????????? ?

??????? ??????? ???? ?????? ????? ???: ??

"Only the meritorious ones get birth in the city of Pune, where the rich
buy gold like buying vegetables."


??????? ??????? ??? ??????? ???????????? ?

??????????? ???? ???: ???????????? ??

"The city of Pune that used to be a city of warriors and scholars has
turned in modern times into a city of computers."


??? ??????? ?????? ? ???????? ???????????? ?

?????????????????? ? ?????????? ????????? ??

"If the city of Pune will not work on computers, the wheels of America will
not go anywhere."


?????????????? ???????????? ????????: ?

??? ????? ?????????: ??? ??????????????? ??

"The boys and girls from Pune who have taken up commitments in America, if
they were all to return, what will America do?"


??????? ????? ???????????? ? ??????? ?

?????????? ?????????????????? ?????????? ??

"America is rich, but little sign of intelligence there.  Otherwise, why
will it invite the boys and girls from Pune for all kinds of work."


?? ?? ?????? ?? ???? ????: ????????????? ?

? ?????????????????? ??????????? ???????? ??

"O my little son, don't go away from the city of Pune.  There is nothing
lacking here.  Why will you go anywhere else?"


?????????? ??????? ??????????? ???? ?? ?

???????? ?? ?????, ?? ??????? ???? ???? ???? ??

"If you must go, come back to your city after a short time.  Don't think of
staying over there."


??? ????? ?????????? ???????????????: ?

???????? ?????? ?? ???????? ?: ?????????? ??

"If all boys and girls from Pune with go to America or Europe, who will
look after the elderly?"

-- 
Madhav M. Deshpande
Professor of Sanskrit and Linguistics
Department of Asian Languages and Cultures
202 South Thayer Street, Suite 6111
The University of Michigan
Ann Arbor, MI 48104-1608, USA


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From mmdesh at umich.edu  Thu Jun 23 10:42:36 2016
From: mmdesh at umich.edu (Madhav Deshpande)
Date: Thu, 23 Jun 16 06:42:36 -0400
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Some more verses on Pune
In-Reply-To: <CAB3-dzfo_AahiCgGnC1QWE=T6M95c-UETQCo2FhOETxMbpBMXA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAB3-dze4UMeyh23xAyjc77d5AKbjO9xA=MSEehn7QNbVSoDTRQ@mail.gmail.com>

Please correct "??? ????? ?????????:" to "??? ????? ??????????".  This
error was caused not by a Mudr?r?k?asa, but by a Nidr?r?k?asa.  Otherwise,
Panini will not forgive me.

Madhav Deshpande

2016-06-22 20:44 GMT-04:00 Madhav Deshpande <mmdesh at umich.edu>:

> ?????????? ?????? ?? ??????????? ??????????? ?
>
> ??????? ??????? ???? ?????? ????? ???: ??
>
> "Only the meritorious ones get birth in the city of Pune, where the rich
> buy gold like buying vegetables."
>
>
> ??????? ??????? ??? ??????? ???????????? ?
>
> ??????????? ???? ???: ???????????? ??
>
> "The city of Pune that used to be a city of warriors and scholars has
> turned in modern times into a city of computers."
>
>
> ??? ??????? ?????? ? ???????? ???????????? ?
>
> ?????????????????? ? ?????????? ????????? ??
>
> "If the city of Pune will not work on computers, the wheels of America
> will not go anywhere."
>
>
> ?????????????? ???????????? ????????: ?
>
> ??? ????? ?????????: ??? ??????????????? ??
>
> "The boys and girls from Pune who have taken up commitments in America, if
> they were all to return, what will America do?"
>
>
> ??????? ????? ???????????? ? ??????? ?
>
> ?????????? ?????????????????? ?????????? ??
>
> "America is rich, but little sign of intelligence there.  Otherwise, why
> will it invite the boys and girls from Pune for all kinds of work."
>
>
> ?? ?? ?????? ?? ???? ????: ????????????? ?
>
> ? ?????????????????? ??????????? ???????? ??
>
> "O my little son, don't go away from the city of Pune.  There is nothing
> lacking here.  Why will you go anywhere else?"
>
>
> ?????????? ??????? ??????????? ???? ?? ?
>
> ???????? ?? ?????, ?? ??????? ???? ???? ???? ??
>
> "If you must go, come back to your city after a short time.  Don't think
> of staying over there."
>
>
> ??? ????? ?????????? ???????????????: ?
>
> ???????? ?????? ?? ???????? ?: ?????????? ??
>
> "If all boys and girls from Pune with go to America or Europe, who will
> look after the elderly?"
>
> --
> Madhav M. Deshpande
> Professor of Sanskrit and Linguistics
> Department of Asian Languages and Cultures
> 202 South Thayer Street, Suite 6111
> The University of Michigan
> Ann Arbor, MI 48104-1608, USA
>



-- 
Madhav M. Deshpande
Professor of Sanskrit and Linguistics
Department of Asian Languages and Cultures
202 South Thayer Street, Suite 6111
The University of Michigan
Ann Arbor, MI 48104-1608, USA


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From klaus.karttunen at helsinki.fi  Thu Jun 23 10:51:36 2016
From: klaus.karttunen at helsinki.fi (Klaus Karttunen)
Date: Thu, 23 Jun 16 13:51:36 +0300
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Some more verses on Pune
In-Reply-To: <CAB3-dze4UMeyh23xAyjc77d5AKbjO9xA=MSEehn7QNbVSoDTRQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <9BF867F7-DDEE-4FB3-9C48-43B377C946A0@helsinki.fi>

Dear all,
it seems that we are getting a nice collection of verses. I have enjoyed it. But will it be called Pu?ya?ataka or M?dhava?ataka?

Best,
Klaus

Klaus Karttunen
South Asian and Indoeuropean Studies
Asian and African Studies, Department of World Cultures
PL 59 (Unioninkatu 38 B)
00014 University of Helsinki, FINLAND
Tel +358-(0)2941 4482418
Fax +358-(0)2941 22094
Klaus.Karttunen at helsinki.fi






> On 23 Jun 2016, at 13:42, Madhav Deshpande <mmdesh at umich.edu> wrote:
> 
> Please correct "??? ????? ?????????:" to "??? ????? ??????????".  This error was caused not by a Mudr?r?k?asa, but by a Nidr?r?k?asa.  Otherwise, Panini will not forgive me.
> 
> Madhav Deshpande
> 
> 2016-06-22 20:44 GMT-04:00 Madhav Deshpande <mmdesh at umich.edu <mailto:mmdesh at umich.edu>>:
> ?????????? ?????? ?? ??????????? ??????????? ?
> 
> ??????? ??????? ???? ?????? ????? ???: ??
> 
> "Only the meritorious ones get birth in the city of Pune, where the rich buy gold like buying vegetables."
> 
> 
> 
> ??????? ??????? ??? ??????? ???????????? ?
> 
> ??????????? ???? ???: ???????????? ??
> 
> "The city of Pune that used to be a city of warriors and scholars has turned in modern times into a city of computers."
> 
> 
> 
> ??? ??????? ?????? ? ???????? ???????????? ?
> 
> ?????????????????? ? ?????????? ????????? ??
> 
> "If the city of Pune will not work on computers, the wheels of America will not go anywhere."
> 
> 
> 
> ?????????????? ???????????? ????????: ?
> 
> ??? ????? ?????????: ??? ??????????????? ??
> 
> "The boys and girls from Pune who have taken up commitments in America, if they were all to return, what will America do?"
> 
> 
> 
> ??????? ????? ???????????? ? ??????? ?
> 
> ?????????? ?????????????????? ?????????? ??
> 
> "America is rich, but little sign of intelligence there.  Otherwise, why will it invite the boys and girls from Pune for all kinds of work."
> 
> 
> 
> ?? ?? ?????? ?? ???? ????: ????????????? ?
> 
> ? ?????????????????? ??????????? ???????? ??
> 
> "O my little son, don't go away from the city of Pune.  There is nothing lacking here.  Why will you go anywhere else?"
> 
> 
> 
> ?????????? ??????? ??????????? ???? ?? ?
> 
> ???????? ?? ?????, ?? ??????? ???? ???? ???? ??
> 
> "If you must go, come back to your city after a short time.  Don't think of staying over there."
> 
> 
> 
> ??? ????? ?????????? ???????????????: ?
> 
> ???????? ?????? ?? ???????? ?: ?????????? ??
> 
> "If all boys and girls from Pune with go to America or Europe, who will look after the elderly?"
> 
> 
> -- 
> Madhav M. Deshpande
> Professor of Sanskrit and Linguistics
> Department of Asian Languages and Cultures
> 202 South Thayer Street, Suite 6111
> The University of Michigan
> Ann Arbor, MI 48104-1608, USA
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Madhav M. Deshpande
> Professor of Sanskrit and Linguistics
> Department of Asian Languages and Cultures
> 202 South Thayer Street, Suite 6111
> The University of Michigan
> Ann Arbor, MI 48104-1608, USA
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe)



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From rembert at ochs.org.uk  Thu Jun 23 17:09:33 2016
From: rembert at ochs.org.uk (Rembert Lutjeharms)
Date: Thu, 23 Jun 16 18:09:33 +0100
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Journal of Hindu Studies 9.1
Message-ID: <CAPM+OO48CERdm--OfpUfoRg=m9EhJKBzGOGxX+BJQjDKHE5OmA@mail.gmail.com>

Dear colleagues,

Below is the table of contents of the latest issue (9.1) of the Journal of
Hindu Studies, which has recently been published. The issue can now be
viewed online at http://jhs.oxfordjournals.org/content/9/1.toc .

Best wishes,
Rembert

JOURNAL OF HINDU STUDIES 9.1

ARTICLES

When the body does not fall: ?a?kara, Sure?vara and ?nandagiri on living
while liberated
Jacqueline Suthren Hirst
http://jhs.oxfordjournals.org/content/9/1/1.abstract

Devotion and Karmic Extirpation in Late Ved?nta: Vi??halan?tha and Baladeva
Vidy?bh??a?a on Brahmas?tra 4.1.13-19
David Buchta
http://jhs.oxfordjournals.org/content/9/1/29.abstract

Brahman Between the Lines: Bhed?bheda and Privileged Theology in the Early
Nimb?rka Samprad?ya
Vijay Ramnarace
http://jhs.oxfordjournals.org/content/9/1/56.abstract

Understanding ?tman in Pra?astap?dabh??ya with the readings of Vyoma?iva
and ?r?dhara
Anna-Pya Sj?din
http://jhs.oxfordjournals.org/content/9/1/84.abstract

In a Time Gone Mad: Indic Notions of Madness and Personhood in the
Mah?bh?rata and Beyond
Matthew I. Robertson
http://jhs.oxfordjournals.org/content/9/1/111.abstract


BOOK REVIEWS

An Enquiry into the Nature of Liberation: Bha??a R?maka??ha?s
Paramok?anir?sak?rik?v?tti, a commentary on Sadyojoti??s refutation of
twenty conceptions of the liberated state (mok?a). By Alex Watson, Dominic
Goodall, and S.L.P. Sarma.
Reviewed by Gavin Flood

Free Will, Agency, and Selfhood in Indian Philosophy. Edited by Matthew R.
Dasti and Edwin F. Bryant.
Reviewed by Gavin Flood

Hindu Theology in Early Modern South Asia: The Rise of Devotionalism and
the Politics of Genealogy. By Kiyokazu Okita.
Reviewed by Rembert Lutjeharms

The Ethics of ?a?kara and ??ntideva: A Selfless Response to an Illusory
World. By Warren Lee Todd.
Reviewed by Katie Javanaud

Charming Beauties and Frightful Beasts: Non-Human Animals in South Asian
Myth, Ritual and Folklore. Edited by Fabrizio M. Ferrari and Thomas
Dahnhardt.
Reviewed by Loriliai Biernacki

The Hindu?Buddhist Sculpture of Ancient Kashmir and its Influences. By John
Siudmak.
Reviewed by Doris Meth Srinivasan

Hindu-Catholic Encounters in Goa: Religion, Colonialism, and Modernity. By
Alexander Henn.
Reviewed by Reid B. Locklin

(For subscriptions, see
http://www.oxfordjournals.org/our_journals/jhs/access_purchase/price_list.html
)

--
Dr. Rembert Lutjeharms
Oxford Centre for Hindu Studies
13-15 Magdalen Street
Oxford OX1 3AE United Kingdom
Tel.: +44 (0)1865 304300


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From ambapradeep at gmail.com  Thu Jun 23 18:50:28 2016
From: ambapradeep at gmail.com (Amba Kulkarni)
Date: Fri, 24 Jun 16 00:20:28 +0530
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Online e-readers for BhagvadGeeta and Shishupaalvadha
Message-ID: <CAFffahDUN2-oUd0z15pByJU=L5902+MHFJhm8Bi=63UjyzxoTg@mail.gmail.com>

Dear list members,

We have added two more on-line readers to sa.msaadhanii -- Sanskrit
Computational Tools at the University of Hyderabad.

These two readers are --
SrimadbhagavadGeeta and
?i?up?lavadha of M?gha (Cantos 1-IV).

These on-line readers have following features:

For every shloka its padapaa.tha, anvaya, Hindi and English translation,
along with the Morphological Analysis of every word, compound analysis of
every compound and complete sentential analysis are provided.

These readers help one to read the original text on-line, with all
necessary analysis at the click of a button.

The readers are available on the mirror site at
http://52.25.246.194/scl/sbg/main.html
and http://52.25.246.194/scl/shishu

and also on the University server at (This server has some network
problems, and hence may be inaccessible during power cuts and during
week-ends)
http://sanskrit.uohyd.ac.in/scl/sbg/main.html, and
http://sanskrit.uohyd.ac.in/scl/shishu

The readers are developed semi-automatically, using the analysis produced
by tools developed at the University of Hyderabad, followed by a manual
correction.

-- Amba Kulkarni


Fellow,
Indian Institute of Advanced Study,
Shimla

? ?? ?????: ?????? ????? ??????: ll
Let noble thoughts come to us from every side.
- Rig Veda, I-89-i.
Prof. (On leave)
Department of Sanskrit Studies
University of Hyderabad
Prof. C.R. Rao Road
Hyderabad-500 046

(91) 040 23133802(off)

http://sanskrit.uohyd.ac.in/scl <http://sanskrit.uohyd.ernet.in/scl>
http://sanskrit.uohyd.ac.in/faculty/amba
<http://sanskrit.uohyd.ernet.in/faculty/amba>


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From mmdesh at umich.edu  Thu Jun 23 21:27:35 2016
From: mmdesh at umich.edu (Madhav Deshpande)
Date: Thu, 23 Jun 16 17:27:35 -0400
Subject: [INDOLOGY] My encounters with the new Pune
Message-ID: <CAB3-dzdtyA-1ZHSD8Y5-hXA+=di8fnm6JbrAC-tO9SmP83Nh2w@mail.gmail.com>

My encounters in the new Pune

??? ????? ??????? ????? ??????? ??? ??? ?
????????? ????? ??? ??????????? ??? ??? ??
"Whenever I go to the Pune City, then my ancientness obstructs me at every
step."

???????? ???????? ?????? ?????? ???????? ?
? ?????????? ?????? ????? ????????: ??
"In earlier times, there were Hanuman and Ganesh temples on every street,
but none of the modern drivers know them."

??????? ??? ??????????? ????????? ?? ?
???????? ??????????? ??????? ??????????? ??
The driver says: "Tell me some new name that I know, some place of Chinese
food, or some famous shop,"

?????????? ????????? ??????????? ???????? ?
?? ???????? ?? ?????? ?????? ??? ????????????? ??
"Or, some Pizza place, or drama house, or dance studio, or a wine shop.
Tell me some place that I know where you wish to go."

????????? ?????? ????, ? ?????? ??? ????? ?
??? ????? ????????? ?????????? ??????????? ??
When he says this, I become silent. I don't know this new city. How can I
go anywhere in this new Pune?

?????? ????????? ???: ???????????????? ???? ?
? ?? ???? ??? ??????, ? ? ?????? ?????? ??
The city where I was born and educated many years ago, that city does not
know me, and I don't know it.

??????? ??? ????? ????????? ?? ????????? ??? ?
?? ???? ?????? ???? ??????? ???????????? ??
The Pune city that I always remember is mostly forgotten here. The city
that exists here is a different Pune city.

??????? ??? ?????????? ?? ?? ???? ????? ?
??? ????????? ????, ? ?? ?? ???? ?????? ??
I remember the Pune city that lives in my mind, and the city that I visit
now is not in my memory.

????????? ??????? ? ???? ????????? ?
??? ???? ??????? ??? ????????,? ??? ?????????? ??
I arrive from an ancient past and don't recognize the new city. The new
city asks me: "who are you?" What shall I do?

???????? ???: ??????:, ?????? ????? ???: ?
???? ????? ?? ???? ???????? ????????????? ??
The driver says to me: "Where have you come from? You do speak Marathi, and
yet your speech appears to be somewhat old fashioned."

????? ??????? ?????? ?????? ?? ????????????????? ?
???????? ????????? ????? ?????? ????? ??? ??
"You speak like Lokmanya Tilak or like Vishnushastri Chiplunkar. In this
city no one now speaks like that."

?????????? ????? ???? ?????????????? ?????? ?
??????? ????? ??????? ?????????? ?????? ??
"Where does this old fashioned Marathi continue to be spoken? Why do you
even now speak this old fashioned Marathi?"

??? ???????? ? ?????? ??? ???????? ??????? ?
???????? ??? ????? ??????: ????????????? ??
Hearing this, I don't know what to say, since I did leave the Pune city
long ago.

??? ?? ??????? ????? ???? ??????? ?
??? ????? ?????? ???? ????? ???????? ??
The old Marathi language came with me. I only know that old Marathi
language, and continue to speak the same."

???????????? ??? ?????????? ? ?? ????????: ?
??????????????????????? ?????????? ?????? ??
"Let it be" said the driver to me and he, with a compassionate heart,
brought me to the desired place.

??? ??????? ??????? ?????????: ???? ??: ?
? ? ????????????????, ??????????????????? ?????? ??
Even after reaching the desired place, I still don't know by which roads
the driver took me there, how I came or went.

? ??? ?????????????? ?????????? ????? ?
??? ????? ???? ???? ???? ???? ????????? ??
No one recognizes me, and I don't recognize anyone. Thinking thus I wander
in this city here and there.

???????????????????????????? ???????? ????? ?
?????????????? ??? ? ??? ?????????? ????????? ??
Someone said to me from the side: "You look like my friend. Where are you
from and what is your name?"

?????????????????? ????? ???????: ?
?? ??????? ?????? ?? ?????????: ??? ??
I said: "I have been living in Ann Arbor, USA, for a long time, and so my
similarity with your friend may be purely accidental."

????????? ??????? ?????? ?????????? ???? ?
?????????????: ?????? ?????? ????? ???? ??
He said: "My friend Madhav Deshpande went to America fifty years ago, but
why do you look like him?"

??????????????? ??? ?????? ?????????????????: ?
? ?? ?????????????, ???????, ?????? ??? ????? ??
Having heard that, I said: "I am Madhav Deshpande from America, but I don't
recognize you. Who are you, and how do you know me?"

?? ?? ??? ? ?????? ??? ?????????? ??? ?
???????? ??? ??????????????? ????????? ??
He said: "Oh Friend, how come you don't recognize me, your school-mate? I
am Bandu with whom you used to play day and night."

????????? ??? ?????? ??? ??????????? ??: ?
?????????? ??? ???? ?? ??????? ???????????? ??
Having embraced Bandu, I said to him: "I did not recognize you, because you
now look totally bald."

??? ?????????????? ??? ???? ??????? ?
????? ??????? ?????????? ???????? ??
"How will I recognize you after such a long time. Still, by God's grace, we
did meet each other, and that is beautiful."

?????????? ???????????? ??????? ????? ??????? ?
????? ?????????????????? ???????? ??
Thus, in this Pune city, a meeting with friends does occasionally happen by
good fortune, and that makes me happy.

-- 
Madhav M. Deshpande
Professor of Sanskrit and Linguistics
Department of Asian Languages and Cultures
202 South Thayer Street, Suite 6111
The University of Michigan
Ann Arbor, MI 48104-1608, USA


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From jknutson at hawaii.edu  Thu Jun 23 23:09:44 2016
From: jknutson at hawaii.edu (Jesse Knutson)
Date: Thu, 23 Jun 16 13:09:44 -1000
Subject: [INDOLOGY] My encounters with the new Pune
In-Reply-To: <CAB3-dzdtyA-1ZHSD8Y5-hXA+=di8fnm6JbrAC-tO9SmP83Nh2w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAAiVBEV1j6k=H2AV=RdkRU7dswMaeqn3yG1K=DbmMpPmOh2aug@mail.gmail.com>

Dear Madhav-mahodaya, As I have already told you off list, I find these
poems really beautiful and extraordinary. I especially loved
'gallIbh??a?a...', but also found these ones about running into your old
playmate really delightful. The poems appeal to me so much because of their
simplicity, unabashed modernity, and playful wit. They definitely merit
publication as a collection and it will really be a gift to modern Sanskrit
literature. ??????,J

2016-06-23 11:27 GMT-10:00 Madhav Deshpande <mmdesh at umich.edu>:

> My encounters in the new Pune
>
> ??? ????? ??????? ????? ??????? ??? ??? ?
> ????????? ????? ??? ??????????? ??? ??? ??
> "Whenever I go to the Pune City, then my ancientness obstructs me at every
> step."
>
> ???????? ???????? ?????? ?????? ???????? ?
> ? ?????????? ?????? ????? ????????: ??
> "In earlier times, there were Hanuman and Ganesh temples on every street,
> but none of the modern drivers know them."
>
> ??????? ??? ??????????? ????????? ?? ?
> ???????? ??????????? ??????? ??????????? ??
> The driver says: "Tell me some new name that I know, some place of Chinese
> food, or some famous shop,"
>
> ?????????? ????????? ??????????? ???????? ?
> ?? ???????? ?? ?????? ?????? ??? ????????????? ??
> "Or, some Pizza place, or drama house, or dance studio, or a wine shop.
> Tell me some place that I know where you wish to go."
>
> ????????? ?????? ????, ? ?????? ??? ????? ?
> ??? ????? ????????? ?????????? ??????????? ??
> When he says this, I become silent. I don't know this new city. How can I
> go anywhere in this new Pune?
>
> ?????? ????????? ???: ???????????????? ???? ?
> ? ?? ???? ??? ??????, ? ? ?????? ?????? ??
> The city where I was born and educated many years ago, that city does not
> know me, and I don't know it.
>
> ??????? ??? ????? ????????? ?? ????????? ??? ?
> ?? ???? ?????? ???? ??????? ???????????? ??
> The Pune city that I always remember is mostly forgotten here. The city
> that exists here is a different Pune city.
>
> ??????? ??? ?????????? ?? ?? ???? ????? ?
> ??? ????????? ????, ? ?? ?? ???? ?????? ??
> I remember the Pune city that lives in my mind, and the city that I visit
> now is not in my memory.
>
> ????????? ??????? ? ???? ????????? ?
> ??? ???? ??????? ??? ????????,? ??? ?????????? ??
> I arrive from an ancient past and don't recognize the new city. The new
> city asks me: "who are you?" What shall I do?
>
> ???????? ???: ??????:, ?????? ????? ???: ?
> ???? ????? ?? ???? ???????? ????????????? ??
> The driver says to me: "Where have you come from? You do speak Marathi,
> and yet your speech appears to be somewhat old fashioned."
>
> ????? ??????? ?????? ?????? ?? ????????????????? ?
> ???????? ????????? ????? ?????? ????? ??? ??
> "You speak like Lokmanya Tilak or like Vishnushastri Chiplunkar. In this
> city no one now speaks like that."
>
> ?????????? ????? ???? ?????????????? ?????? ?
> ??????? ????? ??????? ?????????? ?????? ??
> "Where does this old fashioned Marathi continue to be spoken? Why do you
> even now speak this old fashioned Marathi?"
>
> ??? ???????? ? ?????? ??? ???????? ??????? ?
> ???????? ??? ????? ??????: ????????????? ??
> Hearing this, I don't know what to say, since I did leave the Pune city
> long ago.
>
> ??? ?? ??????? ????? ???? ??????? ?
> ??? ????? ?????? ???? ????? ???????? ??
> The old Marathi language came with me. I only know that old Marathi
> language, and continue to speak the same."
>
> ???????????? ??? ?????????? ? ?? ????????: ?
> ??????????????????????? ?????????? ?????? ??
> "Let it be" said the driver to me and he, with a compassionate heart,
> brought me to the desired place.
>
> ??? ??????? ??????? ?????????: ???? ??: ?
> ? ? ????????????????, ??????????????????? ?????? ??
> Even after reaching the desired place, I still don't know by which roads
> the driver took me there, how I came or went.
>
> ? ??? ?????????????? ?????????? ????? ?
> ??? ????? ???? ???? ???? ???? ????????? ??
> No one recognizes me, and I don't recognize anyone. Thinking thus I wander
> in this city here and there.
>
> ???????????????????????????? ???????? ????? ?
> ?????????????? ??? ? ??? ?????????? ????????? ??
> Someone said to me from the side: "You look like my friend. Where are you
> from and what is your name?"
>
> ?????????????????? ????? ???????: ?
> ?? ??????? ?????? ?? ?????????: ??? ??
> I said: "I have been living in Ann Arbor, USA, for a long time, and so my
> similarity with your friend may be purely accidental."
>
> ????????? ??????? ?????? ?????????? ???? ?
> ?????????????: ?????? ?????? ????? ???? ??
> He said: "My friend Madhav Deshpande went to America fifty years ago, but
> why do you look like him?"
>
> ??????????????? ??? ?????? ?????????????????: ?
> ? ?? ?????????????, ???????, ?????? ??? ????? ??
> Having heard that, I said: "I am Madhav Deshpande from America, but I
> don't recognize you. Who are you, and how do you know me?"
>
> ?? ?? ??? ? ?????? ??? ?????????? ??? ?
> ???????? ??? ??????????????? ????????? ??
> He said: "Oh Friend, how come you don't recognize me, your school-mate? I
> am Bandu with whom you used to play day and night."
>
> ????????? ??? ?????? ??? ??????????? ??: ?
> ?????????? ??? ???? ?? ??????? ???????????? ??
> Having embraced Bandu, I said to him: "I did not recognize you, because
> you now look totally bald."
>
> ??? ?????????????? ??? ???? ??????? ?
> ????? ??????? ?????????? ???????? ??
> "How will I recognize you after such a long time. Still, by God's grace,
> we did meet each other, and that is beautiful."
>
> ?????????? ???????????? ??????? ????? ??????? ?
> ????? ?????????????????? ???????? ??
> Thus, in this Pune city, a meeting with friends does occasionally happen
> by good fortune, and that makes me happy.
>
> --
> Madhav M. Deshpande
> Professor of Sanskrit and Linguistics
> Department of Asian Languages and Cultures
> 202 South Thayer Street, Suite 6111
> The University of Michigan
> Ann Arbor, MI 48104-1608, USA
>
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
> committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
> unsubscribe)
>



-- 
Jesse Ross Knutson PhD
Assistant Professor of Sanskrit and Bengali, Department of Indo-Pacific
Languages and Literatures
University of Hawai'i at M?noa
461 Spalding


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From wujastyk at gmail.com  Thu Jun 23 23:56:13 2016
From: wujastyk at gmail.com (Dominik Wujastyk)
Date: Thu, 23 Jun 16 17:56:13 -0600
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Devanagari font adequacy
In-Reply-To: <CAKdt-CctUoWqDkUJtn_Cqpv1qe3Md3oY9qExrHmW+FPW-YpnRg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAKdt-CeHzByTw0Bh7zk=fzmRvjtHroKZxdipcPc5tN3JuHjGCQ@mail.gmail.com>

Further to my post about Murty Hindi and the font of Graheli's 2015 book,
here are some screenshots:

Graheli:




?Murty (doesn't quite have the full repertoire of sandhyaksaras for Skt):?





?For comparison, the above using Sanskrit2003 (?with FakeStretch=1.08):


?

?


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From nmisra at gmail.com  Fri Jun 24 02:41:44 2016
From: nmisra at gmail.com (Nityanand Misra)
Date: Fri, 24 Jun 16 08:11:44 +0530
Subject: =?utf-8?Q?[INDOLOGY]_Article_in_print:_M=C4=81he=C5=9Bvaras=C5=ABtre=E1=B9=A3u_R=C4=81makath=C4=81_(Sambh=C4=81=E1=B9=A3a=E1=B9=87asande=C5=9Ba=E1=B8=A5,_July_2016)?=
Message-ID: <CAATk=rCCEs8cu5g6WXs3qm=LYro0wE0=DZPH13Ziz+eXvh5u=A@mail.gmail.com>

Dear list members

A slightly edited version of the R?m?ya?a-centric interpretation of the
M?he?varas?tra-s (?ivas?tra-s) in Sanskrit grammar from the ?Prast?van??
(introduction) of the ?Adhy?tmar?m?y??e?p??in?yaprayog???? Vimar?a?? has
been published as a four-page article with the title ?M?he?varas?tre?u
R?makath?? in the upcoming (July 2016) edition of ?Sambh??a?asande?a??
(published by Samskrita Bharati), the largest circulating Sanskrit magazine
in the world. The PDF of the proof is attached with this email. Many thanks
to the editorial board of the magazine for publishing the article. Special
thanks to Vidv?n Janardana Hegde for sharing the proof.

The work ?Adhy?tmar?m?y??e?p??in?yaprayog???? Vimar?a?? was authored
by ?c?rya Giridharal?la Mi?ra ?Praj??cak?u?, now known as Jagadguru
R?m?nand?c?rya Sv?m? R?mabhadr?c?rya, in 1981. It was last published in its
third edition which was edited with more than 1,000 footnotes by me in
2015. The third edition can be read and downloaded under
https://www.academia.edu/25018408/Adhy?tmar?m?ya?e_Ap??in?yaprayog????_Vimar?a?
.

Please forward this to those who may be interested.

Thanks, Nityanand

-- 
Nity?nanda Mi?ra


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From wujastyk at gmail.com  Fri Jun 24 03:07:12 2016
From: wujastyk at gmail.com (Dominik Wujastyk)
Date: Thu, 23 Jun 16 21:07:12 -0600
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Devanagari font adequacy
In-Reply-To: <CAPW7aQHYmTffFAZa=3N09U1O0cT2hzFpVUMqppzn-xT1yrGdwA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAKdt-CepUhJ5kXM85JBv7K71Zdmih7SDQWOOGECRtp8rCHtwcw@mail.gmail.com>

Not at all - the Murty Sanskrit has appeared since I last looked!  Thanks
for the news!

--
Professor Dominik Wujastyk* <http://ualberta.Academia.edu/DominikWujastyk>
Singhmar Chair in Classical Indian Society and Polity
Department of History and Classics <http://historyandclassics.ualberta.ca/>
University of Alberta, Canada

On 23 June 2016 at 18:17, Harry Spier <hspier.muktabodha at gmail.com> wrote:

> Dear Dominik,
>
> You wrote:
>
> On Sun, Jun 19, 2016 at 6:08 PM, Dominik Wujastyk <wujastyk at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Another font to take seriously is the new Murty Hindi
>> <http://www.murtylibrary.com/mcli-fonts.php>, which is pretty good for
>> Skt too.   It's a font that, to my eye, looks a lot better on paper than on
>> the screen.
>>
> )
>>
>
> The same website has a Murty Sanskrit .  Is there some reason why you are
> recommending the Murty Hindi instead of the Murty Sanskrit? are they
> different typefaces?
>
> Thanks,
> Harry Spier
>


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From mailmealakendudas at rediffmail.com  Fri Jun 24 10:33:17 2016
From: mailmealakendudas at rediffmail.com (alakendu das)
Date: Fri, 24 Jun 16 10:33:17 +0000
Subject: [INDOLOGY] AMARAVATI  STUPA
Message-ID: <20160624103317.8309.qmail@f4mail-235-125.rediffmail.com>



  I saw this piece of sculpture  curved out  on the outer  circumbualatory wall of the Amaravati Stupa , in Andhra Prdesh ,( 45 km from Vijaywada) India  when I visited it in 2014. 

   

            I would like to know whether the incident  refers to the event of MahaNishkraamana in the life of Siddhartha Gautam Buddha when he decided to renounce this mundane world , with his kins and near ones wailing to desist him from doing so, or is it somethimg else ?

                                                        

                                                                    ALAKENDU DAS



                                                     

  


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From rolfheiner.koch at gmail.com  Fri Jun 24 14:07:23 2016
From: rolfheiner.koch at gmail.com (Rolf Heinrich Koch)
Date: Fri, 24 Jun 16 16:07:23 +0200
Subject: [INDOLOGY] AMARAVATI  STUPA
In-Reply-To: <20160624103317.8309.qmail@f4mail-235-125.rediffmail.com>
Message-ID: <00aa01d1ce21$bcd98670$368c9350$@gmail.com>

It is something else because he is wearing a monks robe.

 

Heiner

 

www.rolfheinrichkoch.wordpress.com

 

Von: INDOLOGY [mailto:indology-bounces at list.indology.info] Im Auftrag von alakendu das
Gesendet: Freitag, 24. Juni 2016 12:33
An: indology at list.indology.info
Betreff: [INDOLOGY] AMARAVATI STUPA

 


I saw this piece of sculpture curved out on the outer circumbualatory wall of the Amaravati Stupa , in Andhra Prdesh ,( 45 km from Vijaywada) India when I visited it in 2014. 

I would like to know whether the incident refers to the event of MahaNishkraamana in the life of Siddhartha Gautam Buddha when he decided to renounce this mundane world , with his kins and near ones wailing to desist him from doing so, or is it somethimg else ?

ALAKENDU DAS






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From mkapstei at uchicago.edu  Fri Jun 24 14:21:34 2016
From: mkapstei at uchicago.edu (Matthew Kapstein)
Date: Fri, 24 Jun 16 14:21:34 +0000
Subject: [INDOLOGY] AMARAVATI  STUPA
In-Reply-To: <00aa01d1ce21$bcd98670$368c9350$@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <82C3E42590D939418C74DD76B97DDED047BA8F3A@xm-mbx-06-prod>

This is pure speculation, but I imagine it that it could be the scene of the enlightened
Buddha's receiving the honor of Kapilavastu when he returns to preach in his native land.
This is described, for instance, in A?vaghoSa's Saundarananda. But it may be another
similar theme of the Buddha being honored by lay devotees elsewhere.

Matthew Kapstein
Directeur d'?tudes,
Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes

Numata Visiting Professor of Buddhist Studies,
The University of Chicago
________________________________



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From kauzeya at gmail.com  Fri Jun 24 14:31:00 2016
From: kauzeya at gmail.com (Jonathan Silk)
Date: Fri, 24 Jun 16 16:31:00 +0200
Subject: [INDOLOGY] AMARAVATI STUPA
In-Reply-To: <82C3E42590D939418C74DD76B97DDED047BA8F3A@xm-mbx-06-prod>
Message-ID: <CAMGmO4J5+GU1wuCuSohP=GktuTqCAuG-3Y7T9cPG_xdVF1_jug@mail.gmail.com>

I hope I will be excused for saying that I wonder whether this is really
from Amaravati; the condition seems extraordinary without a single even
slight chip. Moreover, the surface, in the photo, looks rather much more
like clay than stone. I may of course be wrong, but I'm suspicious of it
even being old at all.

Jonathan Silk

On Fri, Jun 24, 2016 at 4:21 PM, Matthew Kapstein <mkapstei at uchicago.edu>
wrote:

> This is pure speculation, but I imagine it that it could be the scene of
> the enlightened
> Buddha's receiving the honor of Kapilavastu when he returns to preach in
> his native land.
> This is described, for instance, in A?vaghoSa's Saundarananda. But it may
> be another
> similar theme of the Buddha being honored by lay devotees elsewhere.
>
> Matthew Kapstein
> Directeur d'?tudes,
> Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes
>
> Numata Visiting Professor of Buddhist Studies,
> The University of Chicago
> ------------------------------
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
> committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
> unsubscribe)
>



-- 
J. Silk
Leiden University
Leiden University Institute for Area Studies, LIAS
Matthias de Vrieshof 3, Room 0.05b
2311 BZ Leiden
The Netherlands

copies of my publications may be found at
http://www.buddhismandsocialjustice.com/silk_publications.html


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From andrew.ollett at gmail.com  Fri Jun 24 14:51:25 2016
From: andrew.ollett at gmail.com (Andrew Ollett)
Date: Fri, 24 Jun 16 16:51:25 +0200
Subject: [INDOLOGY] AMARAVATI STUPA
In-Reply-To: <CAMGmO4J5+GU1wuCuSohP=GktuTqCAuG-3Y7T9cPG_xdVF1_jug@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAANHO15s3uXHrOK6EFm4A_64JBDGEbKiKr4VrY+ycZUQYwXmdw@mail.gmail.com>

Yes, I am pretty sure this is from the "new" temple at Amaravati, with a
big sitting Buddha on top of it.
On Jun 24, 2016 4:33 PM, "Jonathan Silk" <kauzeya at gmail.com> wrote:

> I hope I will be excused for saying that I wonder whether this is really
> from Amaravati; the condition seems extraordinary without a single even
> slight chip. Moreover, the surface, in the photo, looks rather much more
> like clay than stone. I may of course be wrong, but I'm suspicious of it
> even being old at all.
>
> Jonathan Silk
>
> On Fri, Jun 24, 2016 at 4:21 PM, Matthew Kapstein <mkapstei at uchicago.edu>
> wrote:
>
>> This is pure speculation, but I imagine it that it could be the scene of
>> the enlightened
>> Buddha's receiving the honor of Kapilavastu when he returns to preach in
>> his native land.
>> This is described, for instance, in A?vaghoSa's Saundarananda. But it may
>> be another
>> similar theme of the Buddha being honored by lay devotees elsewhere.
>>
>> Matthew Kapstein
>> Directeur d'?tudes,
>> Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes
>>
>> Numata Visiting Professor of Buddhist Studies,
>> The University of Chicago
>> ------------------------------
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
>> committee)
>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
>> unsubscribe)
>>
>
>
>
> --
> J. Silk
> Leiden University
> Leiden University Institute for Area Studies, LIAS
> Matthias de Vrieshof 3, Room 0.05b
> 2311 BZ Leiden
> The Netherlands
>
> copies of my publications may be found at
> http://www.buddhismandsocialjustice.com/silk_publications.html
>
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
> committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
> unsubscribe)
>


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From ondracka at ff.cuni.cz  Fri Jun 24 14:53:06 2016
From: ondracka at ff.cuni.cz (Lubomir Ondracka)
Date: Fri, 24 Jun 16 16:53:06 +0200
Subject: [INDOLOGY] AMARAVATI STUPA
In-Reply-To: <CAMGmO4J5+GU1wuCuSohP=GktuTqCAuG-3Y7T9cPG_xdVF1_jug@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20160624165306.2e9bc04f62f925943814d632@ff.cuni.cz>

Of course, Jonathan, you are right, it is clear at first sight. 
This is a modern replica (and not very faithful to the original Amaravati artistic style).
http://www.thehindu.com/todays-paper/tp-national/tp-andhrapradesh/an-apt-gift-for-buddha-purnima/article277961.ece

Lubomir


On Fri, 24 Jun 2016 16:31:00 +0200
Jonathan Silk <kauzeya at gmail.com> wrote:

> I hope I will be excused for saying that I wonder whether this is really
> from Amaravati; the condition seems extraordinary without a single even
> slight chip. Moreover, the surface, in the photo, looks rather much more
> like clay than stone. I may of course be wrong, but I'm suspicious of it
> even being old at all.
> 
> Jonathan Silk
> 
> On Fri, Jun 24, 2016 at 4:21 PM, Matthew Kapstein <mkapstei at uchicago.edu>
> wrote:
> 
> > This is pure speculation, but I imagine it that it could be the scene of
> > the enlightened
> > Buddha's receiving the honor of Kapilavastu when he returns to preach in
> > his native land.
> > This is described, for instance, in A?vaghoSa's Saundarananda. But it may
> > be another
> > similar theme of the Buddha being honored by lay devotees elsewhere.
> >
> > Matthew Kapstein
> > Directeur d'?tudes,
> > Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes
> >
> > Numata Visiting Professor of Buddhist Studies,
> > The University of Chicago
> > ------------------------------
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > INDOLOGY mailing list
> > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
> > committee)
> > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
> > unsubscribe)
> >
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> J. Silk
> Leiden University
> Leiden University Institute for Area Studies, LIAS
> Matthias de Vrieshof 3, Room 0.05b
> 2311 BZ Leiden
> The Netherlands
> 
> copies of my publications may be found at
> http://www.buddhismandsocialjustice.com/silk_publications.html





From drdhaval2785 at gmail.com  Fri Jun 24 16:32:44 2016
From: drdhaval2785 at gmail.com (dhaval patel)
Date: Fri, 24 Jun 16 22:02:44 +0530
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Database of Sanskrit Verb forms
Message-ID: <CADSGPzXYX24wbjyH7FhsSKg5iv-QVEswz6dNSNCzAe2eT0ZW4A@mail.gmail.com>

Apologies for cross posting
---------------------------------------

Respected scholars,

As a result of our work on tiGanta generation tool for past some years,
We present the following database of generated verb forms of Sanskrit
language for Sanskrit NLP community.

www.sanskritworld.in/sanskrittool/SanskritVerb/generatedforms/verbforms.tar.gz

The file is in XML format and a typical line is in the following format -

<f form="Bavati"><root name="BU" num="01.0001"/><law/><tip/></f>

Data set has a total of 267797 entries.
Data has verb forms for around 2240 verbs.

Project code page -
https://github.com/drdhaval2785/SanskritVerb/
Project testing page -
http://www.sanskritworld.in/sanskrittool/SanskritVerb/tiGanta.html
N.B. - The code will also show up applicable Paninian rules and the effect
thereof on the verb forms sequentially.

Current version -
v1.10.0 Date 24 June 2016
Authors -
Dr. Dhaval Patel and Dr. Shivakumari Katuri.


Acknowledgements -
1. Prof. Amba Kulkarni of Univ. of Hyderabad for allowing us access to her
database of verb forms and various dhAtuvRttis
<http://sanskrit.uohyd.ac.in/scl/dhaatupaatha/compare_with_svara.html>.
2. Prof. Gerard Huet of INRIA for allowing us access to his database of
verbforms <http://sanskrit.inria.fr/DATA/XML/>.
We have used these two existing databases for comparing our results
against, and have made necessary corrections where there were evident
errors.

-- 
Dr. Dhaval Patel, I.A.S
Collector and District Magistrate, Anand
www.sanskritworld.in


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From c.ram-prasad at lancaster.ac.uk  Fri Jun 24 20:05:52 2016
From: c.ram-prasad at lancaster.ac.uk (Ram-Prasad, Chakravarthi)
Date: Fri, 24 Jun 16 20:05:52 +0000
Subject: [INDOLOGY] MA including Latin and Sanskrit
Message-ID: <5622B5FA1B14F3439A3ABC85C5A09EA823E61E18@EX-1-MB1.lancs.local>

Dear list,
Could anyone point me to masters-level programmes in Europe for Indo-European (and Comparative) Linguistics that would include study of both Latin and/or Greek AND Sanskrit?
Thank you.

Ram

Chakravarthi Ram-Prasad
Professor of Comparative Religion and Philosophy
Lancaster University


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From rhododaktylos at gmail.com  Fri Jun 24 20:10:09 2016
From: rhododaktylos at gmail.com (Antonia Ruppel)
Date: Fri, 24 Jun 16 21:10:09 +0100
Subject: [INDOLOGY] MA including Latin and Sanskrit
In-Reply-To: <5622B5FA1B14F3439A3ABC85C5A09EA823E61E18@EX-1-MB1.lancs.local>
Message-ID: <CAEjEOsAGv3Pt1PkX4Sw3-DEsQ2HFkyvgRtGE2=Lx0_fVrVjpvg@mail.gmail.com>

Dear Ram,

The list below is rather comprehensive:

http://www.indogermanistik.org/indogermanistik/studium/lehrstuehle.html

All the best,
     Antonia

On 24 June 2016 at 21:05, Ram-Prasad, Chakravarthi <
c.ram-prasad at lancaster.ac.uk> wrote:

> Dear list,
> Could anyone point me to masters-level programmes in Europe for
> Indo-European (and Comparative) Linguistics that would include study of
> both Latin and/or Greek AND Sanskrit?
> Thank you.
>
> Ram
>
> Chakravarthi Ram-Prasad
> Professor of Comparative Religion and Philosophy
> Lancaster University
>
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
> committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
> unsubscribe)
>



-- 
 ANTONIA RUPPEL
 s a p e r e   a u d e


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From drdhaval2785 at gmail.com  Sat Jun 25 13:33:44 2016
From: drdhaval2785 at gmail.com (dhaval patel)
Date: Sat, 25 Jun 16 19:03:44 +0530
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Database of Sanskrit Verb forms
In-Reply-To: <CADSGPzVcdx+C+HnWqENgP0bfou2YKtqA-TtLDu_k5jGw3dUxSQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CADSGPzWW-CeKY5Gc5Bwh9-y+E4fcjq8=XA=fMA2LTfhHNwjf1Q@mail.gmail.com>

As per the requests of members, a CSV file with
verbform,verb,lakAra,suffix,verbnumber format is made available in
Devanagari
e.g. ??????,???,???,????,10.0460.

See
www.sanskritworld.in/public/sanskrittool/SanskritVerb/generatedforms/verbformsdeva.tar.gz

The verb number is consciously not changed to Devanagari, so that it is
amenable to easy machine handling.


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From wujastyk at gmail.com  Sat Jun 25 14:24:14 2016
From: wujastyk at gmail.com (Dominik Wujastyk)
Date: Sat, 25 Jun 16 08:24:14 -0600
Subject: [INDOLOGY] MA including Latin and Sanskrit
In-Reply-To: <5622B5FA1B14F3439A3ABC85C5A09EA823E61E18@EX-1-MB1.lancs.local>
Message-ID: <CAKdt-CfqJvbybWsA6r0YpZX558shd-qFNBZZ7Hh7qrUWcxidcg@mail.gmail.com>

It's not Europe, but we have the facilities to offer that here at the
University of Alberta.

--
Professor Dominik Wujastyk* <http://ualberta.Academia.edu/DominikWujastyk>
Singhmar Chair in Classical Indian Society and Polity
Department of History and Classics <http://historyandclassics.ualberta.ca/>
University of Alberta, Canada

On 24 June 2016 at 14:05, Ram-Prasad, Chakravarthi <
c.ram-prasad at lancaster.ac.uk> wrote:

> Dear list,
> Could anyone point me to masters-level programmes in Europe for
> Indo-European (and Comparative) Linguistics that would include study of
> both Latin and/or Greek AND Sanskrit?
> Thank you.
>
> Ram
>
> Chakravarthi Ram-Prasad
> Professor of Comparative Religion and Philosophy
> Lancaster University
>
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
> committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
> unsubscribe)
>


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From dermot at grevatt.force9.co.uk  Sat Jun 25 17:18:52 2016
From: dermot at grevatt.force9.co.uk (dermot at grevatt.force9.co.uk)
Date: Sat, 25 Jun 16 18:18:52 +0100
Subject: [INDOLOGY] amsala
Message-ID: <576EBCFC.19679.2168070@dermot.grevatt.force9.co.uk>

Can someone help with a bit of brAhmaNa interpretation?

Monier-Williams and Mayrhofer both say aMsala means "strong", connecting it with aMsa 
"shoulder". Mayrhofer adds that it's used mainly with reference to cattle and meat.

In xatapatha brAhmaNa 3.1.2.21 Eggeling translates it "tender".

The context is a prohibition on eating beef -- apparently not for everyone at all times, but for 
someone undertaking dIkSA. After an arthavAda justifying the prohibition, YAjnavalkya is 
quoted as saying "axnAmy evAham aMsalaM ced bhavati."

Eggeling: "I, for one, eat it, provided that it is tender."

Is there any evidence for a meaning "tender", or is Eggeling taking a liberty to give 
YAjnavalkya a good punch line?

I realise that ancient Indian diet can be a sensitive issue, but the question here seems to be 
about YAjnavalkya's culinary preference.

I'd be grateful for any clarification.

Dermot

-- 
Dermot Killingley
9, Rectory Drive,
Gosforth,
Newcastle upon Tyne NE3 1XT
Phone (0191) 285 8053






From hermantull at gmail.com  Sat Jun 25 19:43:27 2016
From: hermantull at gmail.com (Herman Tull)
Date: Sat, 25 Jun 16 15:43:27 -0400
Subject: [INDOLOGY] amsala
In-Reply-To: <576EBCFC.19679.2168070@dermot.grevatt.force9.co.uk>
Message-ID: <CAFdBLNgfrqziNzjZenLssKw42bzSaWvAXJ5RE5Oy0fc5dtg_og@mail.gmail.com>

?
Dermot,

I worked on this 30 years ago,? and I remember asking the exact same
question. If memory serves correctly (and it may be
?unreliable
 here), I believe Sayana's commentary
?is
 helpful here
? in getting to Eggeling's definition?
.
?
(I'm away from my library right now, and I cannot check
?.?
)?

?Herman

Herman Tull
Princeton, NJ
On Jun 25, 2016 11:19 AM, <dermot at grevatt.force9.co.uk> wrote:

> Can someone help with a bit of brAhmaNa interpretation?
>
> Monier-Williams and Mayrhofer both say aMsala means "strong", connecting
> it with aMsa
> "shoulder". Mayrhofer adds that it's used mainly with reference to cattle
> and meat.
>
> In xatapatha brAhmaNa 3.1.2.21 Eggeling translates it "tender".
>
> The context is a prohibition on eating beef -- apparently not for everyone
> at all times, but for
> someone undertaking dIkSA. After an arthavAda justifying the prohibition,
> YAjnavalkya is
> quoted as saying "axnAmy evAham aMsalaM ced bhavati."
>
> Eggeling: "I, for one, eat it, provided that it is tender."
>
> Is there any evidence for a meaning "tender", or is Eggeling taking a
> liberty to give
> YAjnavalkya a good punch line?
>
> I realise that ancient Indian diet can be a sensitive issue, but the
> question here seems to be
> about YAjnavalkya's culinary preference.
>
> I'd be grateful for any clarification.
>
> Dermot
>
> --
> Dermot Killingley
> 9, Rectory Drive,
> Gosforth,
> Newcastle upon Tyne NE3 1XT
> Phone (0191) 285 8053
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
> committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
> unsubscribe)
>


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From mmdesh at umich.edu  Sat Jun 25 19:59:32 2016
From: mmdesh at umich.edu (Madhav Deshpande)
Date: Sat, 25 Jun 16 15:59:32 -0400
Subject: [INDOLOGY] amsala
In-Reply-To: <CAFdBLNgfrqziNzjZenLssKw42bzSaWvAXJ5RE5Oy0fc5dtg_og@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAB3-dzeTx_9xwDcpqZ8BqAx+KvqZ3RCFc=h7+BWzRXWDyWOGxw@mail.gmail.com>

Hello Dermot and Herman,

At least in P??ini's understanding, the words vatsa+la and a?sa+la are
derived respectively in the sense of k?ma "love" and bala "strength,"
s?tra: vats??s?bhy?? k?mabale (P. 5.2.98).  Thus, for P??ini, these words
mean "loving, affectionate" and "strong," respectively.  That meaning for
a?sala would not fit the ?atapatha passage: a?n?my ev?ham a?sala? ced
bhavati, suggesting that the word had some other meaning making the meat
more edible/desirable, and hence "tender" is a likely contextual meaning.
May be "plump, juicy".

Madhav Deshpande

On Sat, Jun 25, 2016 at 3:43 PM, Herman Tull <hermantull at gmail.com> wrote:

> ?
> Dermot,
>
> I worked on this 30 years ago,? and I remember asking the exact same
> question. If memory serves correctly (and it may be
> ?unreliable
>  here), I believe Sayana's commentary
> ?is
>  helpful here
> ? in getting to Eggeling's definition?
> .
> ?
> (I'm away from my library right now, and I cannot check
> ?.?
> )?
>
> ?Herman
>
> Herman Tull
> Princeton, NJ
> On Jun 25, 2016 11:19 AM, <dermot at grevatt.force9.co.uk> wrote:
>
>> Can someone help with a bit of brAhmaNa interpretation?
>>
>> Monier-Williams and Mayrhofer both say aMsala means "strong", connecting
>> it with aMsa
>> "shoulder". Mayrhofer adds that it's used mainly with reference to cattle
>> and meat.
>>
>> In xatapatha brAhmaNa 3.1.2.21 Eggeling translates it "tender".
>>
>> The context is a prohibition on eating beef -- apparently not for
>> everyone at all times, but for
>> someone undertaking dIkSA. After an arthavAda justifying the prohibition,
>> YAjnavalkya is
>> quoted as saying "axnAmy evAham aMsalaM ced bhavati."
>>
>> Eggeling: "I, for one, eat it, provided that it is tender."
>>
>> Is there any evidence for a meaning "tender", or is Eggeling taking a
>> liberty to give
>> YAjnavalkya a good punch line?
>>
>> I realise that ancient Indian diet can be a sensitive issue, but the
>> question here seems to be
>> about YAjnavalkya's culinary preference.
>>
>> I'd be grateful for any clarification.
>>
>> Dermot
>>
>> --
>> Dermot Killingley
>> 9, Rectory Drive,
>> Gosforth,
>> Newcastle upon Tyne NE3 1XT
>> Phone (0191) 285 8053
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
>> committee)
>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
>> unsubscribe)
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
> committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
> unsubscribe)
>



-- 
Madhav M. Deshpande
Professor of Sanskrit and Linguistics
Department of Asian Languages and Cultures
202 South Thayer Street, Suite 6111
The University of Michigan
Ann Arbor, MI 48104-1608, USA


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From ssandahl at sympatico.ca  Sat Jun 25 21:58:07 2016
From: ssandahl at sympatico.ca (stella sandahl)
Date: Sat, 25 Jun 16 17:58:07 -0400
Subject: [INDOLOGY] MA including Latin and Sanskrit
In-Reply-To: <5622B5FA1B14F3439A3ABC85C5A09EA823E61E18@EX-1-MB1.lancs.local>
Message-ID: <D371C57E-BBA2-4AC9-98B7-6FF2165ABAFF@sympatico.ca>

It might be worthwhile to check Uppsala University, Sweden. They were always strong in Indo-European.
Best
Stella Sandahl
--
Professor Stella Sandahl (emerita)
Department of East Asian Studies
130 St. George St. room 14087
Toronto, ON M5S 3H1
ssandahl at sympatico.ca
stella.sandahl at utoronto.ca
Tel. (416) 530-7755
Fax. (416) 978-5711

andha? tama? pravi?anti ye ?vidy?m up?sate tato bh?ya iva te tamo ya u vidy?y?? rat?? ||

B?had?ra?yaka Upanisad IV.4.10

?Those who worship ignorance enter into blind darkness.  Those who are devoted to knowledge enter, as it were, into a greater darkness.?

 







On Jun 24, 2016, at 4:05 PM, Ram-Prasad, Chakravarthi <c.ram-prasad at lancaster.ac.uk> wrote:

> Dear list,
> Could anyone point me to masters-level programmes in Europe for Indo-European (and Comparative) Linguistics that would include study of both Latin and/or Greek AND Sanskrit?
> Thank you.
> 
> Ram
> 
> Chakravarthi Ram-Prasad
> Professor of Comparative Religion and Philosophy
> Lancaster University
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe)



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From georges.pinault at wanadoo.fr  Sun Jun 26 09:00:34 2016
From: georges.pinault at wanadoo.fr (Georges PINAULT)
Date: Sun, 26 Jun 16 11:00:34 +0200
Subject: [INDOLOGY] MA including Latin and Sanskrit
In-Reply-To: <5622B5FA1B14F3439A3ABC85C5A09EA823E61E18@EX-1-MB1.lancs.local>
Message-ID: <724772120.2247.1466931634373.JavaMail.www@wwinf1e26>

Dear Colleagues,?? I may mention that the Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes (Sorbonne, Paris) has a master-level programme in Indo-European and Comparative Linguistics, which includes Latin and Italic languages, Greek, Sanskrit, Tocharian, Iranian, Baltic, Armenian, etc., in the cursus "Linguistique indo-europ?enne et typologie des langues". It includes also languages belonging to non Indo-European languages families: Caucasian, Berber, Austronesian. You will find more information on the web site of the EPHE: ephe.sorbonne.fr

Best wishes,??? Georges-Jean Pinault (EPHE, Paris) 

?

?

?

?

> Message du 24/06/16 22:07
> De : "Ram-Prasad, Chakravarthi" 
> A : "INDOLOGY at list.indology.info" 
> Copie ? : 
> Objet : [INDOLOGY] MA including Latin and Sanskrit
> 
>
Dear list,
Could anyone point me to masters-level programmes in Europe for Indo-European (and Comparative) Linguistics that would include study of both Latin and/or Greek AND Sanskrit?
Thank you.

>
Ram

>
Chakravarthi Ram-Prasad
Professor of Comparative Religion and Philosophy
Lancaster University




_______________________________________________
INDOLOGY mailing list
INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee)
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From chlodwig.h.werba at univie.ac.at  Sun Jun 26 10:56:30 2016
From: chlodwig.h.werba at univie.ac.at (Chlodwig H. Werba)
Date: Sun, 26 Jun 16 12:56:30 +0200
Subject: [INDOLOGY] MA including Latin and Sanskrit
In-Reply-To: <724772120.2247.1466931634373.JavaMail.www@wwinf1e26>
Message-ID: <000601d1cf99$658de900$30a9bb00$@univie.ac.at>

Dear Colleague,

it goes without saying that you?ll find such a programme also in Vienna at our University of Vienna, called Alma Mater Rudolphina, which last year celebrated her 650th anniversary. The programme is entitled

?         Masterstudium Indogermanistik und historische Sprachwissenschaft / Master in Indo-European Studies and Historical Linguistics.

For its details, please refer to:

?         http://linguistik.univie.ac.at/studium/masterstudium/master-indogermanistik/

With best wishes

Chlodwig H. Werba

 

vivardhate vibh?ge ?pi, vidyaiv?nyan na kin cana /

ity av?cy anyad? sushthu, pr?cyar?shtrakavishriy? //

satyam eva vijayate ? haq?qat sab ke sab j?t let? hai :: verum omnia vincit

hashiyam art?c? din?tiy ? haqiqat barande mishavad :: t? al?th?s p?nt?s nik?i

Dr. Chlodwig H. Werba, Prof. of Indo-Iranian Studies 
Institute of South Asian, Tibetan and Buddhist Studies, South Asian Studies

http://stb.univie.ac.at
University Campus, Courtyard 2/2.1 
Spitalgasse 2, 1090 Vienna, AUSTRIA  
Tel.: +43-1-4277-435-19

 

 

 

Von: INDOLOGY [mailto:indology-bounces at list.indology.info] Im Auftrag von Georges PINAULT
Gesendet: Sonntag, 26. Juni 2016 11:01
An: Ram-Prasad Chakravarthi; INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
Betreff: Re: [INDOLOGY] MA including Latin and Sanskrit

 

Dear Colleagues,   I may mention that the Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes (Sorbonne, Paris) has a master-level programme in Indo-European and Comparative Linguistics, which includes Latin and Italic languages, Greek, Sanskrit, Tocharian, Iranian, Baltic, Armenian, etc., in the cursus "Linguistique indo-europ?enne et typologie des langues". It includes also languages belonging to non Indo-European languages families: Caucasian, Berber, Austronesian. You will find more information on the web site of the EPHE: ephe.sorbonne.fr

Best wishes,    Georges-Jean Pinault (EPHE, Paris) 

 

 

 

 

> Message du 24/06/16 22:07
> De : "Ram-Prasad, Chakravarthi" <c.ram-prasad at lancaster.ac.uk>
> A : "INDOLOGY at list.indology.info" <INDOLOGY at list.indology.info>
> Copie ? : 
> Objet : [INDOLOGY] MA including Latin and Sanskrit
> 
> 

Dear list, 

Could anyone point me to masters-level programmes in Europe for Indo-European (and Comparative) Linguistics that would include study of both Latin and/or Greek AND Sanskrit?

Thank you.


>

Ram


>

Chakravarthi Ram-Prasad

Professor of Comparative Religion and Philosophy

Lancaster University




_______________________________________________
INDOLOGY mailing list
INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee)
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From dcgunkel at gmail.com  Sun Jun 26 11:55:13 2016
From: dcgunkel at gmail.com (Dieter Gunkel)
Date: Sun, 26 Jun 16 13:55:13 +0200
Subject: [INDOLOGY] MA including Latin and Sanskrit
In-Reply-To: <000601d1cf99$658de900$30a9bb00$@univie.ac.at>
Message-ID: <CADVOX37URxdNWfCX64_9jhbohaBYgUeWOU0YqqJPEkxhM+VDMw@mail.gmail.com>

Dear Professor Chakravarthi,

The University of Munich also offers a Master's degree in "Comparative
Indo-European Linguistics/Vergleichende Indoeurop?ische
Sprachwissenschaft," which includes coursework in Greek, Latin, and
Sanskrit historical linguistics. The structure of the degree is sketched
here (both in German and in English):

http://www.indogermanistik.uni-muenchen.de/studium/master_vis/index.html.

If you have a student who is interested in applying to begin this coming
coming academic year (i.e. in October), please ask her/him to get in touch
with me at the address below within the next week or so; the application
deadline for international students is July 15th.

dieter.gunkel at lrz.uni-muenchen.de

The University of Munich requires applicants from abroad to provide proof
of proficiency in German. Further information on that can be found here:

http://www.en.uni-muenchen.de/students/degree/admission_info/german_proficiency/index.html
.

Best wishes,

Dieter Gunkel







On Sun, Jun 26, 2016 at 12:56 PM, Chlodwig H. Werba <
chlodwig.h.werba at univie.ac.at> wrote:

> Dear Colleague,
>
> it goes without saying that you?ll find such a programme also in Vienna at
> our University of Vienna, called Alma Mater Rudolphina, which last year
> celebrated her 650th anniversary. The programme is entitled
>
> ?         Masterstudium Indogermanistik und historische
> Sprachwissenschaft / Master in Indo-European Studies and Historical
> Linguistics.
>
> For its details, please refer to:
>
> ?
> http://linguistik.univie.ac.at/studium/masterstudium/master-indogermanistik/
>
> With best wishes
>
> Chlodwig H. Werba
>
>
>
> *vivardhate vibh?ge ?pi, vidyaiv?nyan na kin cana /*
>
> *ity av?cy anyad? sushthu, pr?cyar?shtrakavishriy? //*
>
> *satyam eva vijayate ? haq?qat sab ke sab j?t let? hai **:: verum omnia
> vincit*
>
> *hashiyam art?c? din?tiy** ? haqiqat barande mishavad :: t? al?th?s
> p?nt?s nik?i*
>
> Dr. Chlodwig H. Werba, Prof. of Indo-Iranian Studies
> Institute of South Asian, Tibetan and Buddhist Studies, South Asian Studies
>
> http://stb.univie.ac.at
> University Campus, Courtyard 2/2.1
> Spitalgasse 2, 1090 Vienna, AUSTRIA
> Tel.: +43-1-4277-435-19
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *Von:* INDOLOGY [mailto:indology-bounces at list.indology.info] *Im Auftrag
> von *Georges PINAULT
> *Gesendet:* Sonntag, 26. Juni 2016 11:01
> *An:* Ram-Prasad Chakravarthi; INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> *Betreff:* Re: [INDOLOGY] MA including Latin and Sanskrit
>
>
>
> Dear Colleagues,   I may mention that the Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes
> (Sorbonne, Paris) has a master-level programme in Indo-European and
> Comparative Linguistics, which includes Latin and Italic languages, Greek,
> Sanskrit, Tocharian, Iranian, Baltic, Armenian, etc., in the cursus
> "Linguistique indo-europ?enne et typologie des langues". It includes also
> languages belonging to non Indo-European languages families: Caucasian,
> Berber, Austronesian. You will find more information on the web site of the
> EPHE: ephe.sorbonne.fr
>
> Best wishes,    Georges-Jean Pinault (EPHE, Paris)
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > Message du 24/06/16 22:07
> > De : "Ram-Prasad, Chakravarthi" <c.ram-prasad at lancaster.ac.uk>
> > A : "INDOLOGY at list.indology.info" <INDOLOGY at list.indology.info>
> > Copie ? :
> > Objet : [INDOLOGY] MA including Latin and Sanskrit
> >
> >
>
> Dear list,
>
> Could anyone point me to masters-level programmes in Europe for
> Indo-European (and Comparative) Linguistics that would include study of
> both Latin and/or Greek AND Sanskrit?
>
> Thank you.
>
>
> >
>
> Ram
>
>
> >
>
> Chakravarthi Ram-Prasad
>
> Professor of Comparative Religion and Philosophy
>
> Lancaster University
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
> committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
> unsubscribe)
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
> committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
> unsubscribe)
>


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From hspier.muktabodha at gmail.com  Sun Jun 26 21:38:01 2016
From: hspier.muktabodha at gmail.com (Harry Spier)
Date: Sun, 26 Jun 16 17:38:01 -0400
Subject: [INDOLOGY] New e-texts added to the Muktabodha digital library
Message-ID: <CAPW7aQEbuh2_mJdwVR4ywa_O5TRiqwMm7YkFb=Mn=eNtUm_4XQ@mail.gmail.com>

Dear list members,

Muktabodha is pleased to announce that the  following searchable e-texts
have now been added to the Muktabodha Digital Library.

vij??nabhairava with commentary called Kaumadi by ?nandabha??? KSTS vol 9

?ivas?travimar?in? KSTS vol. 1

?ivastotr?val? Chowkambha Sanskrit Series

pratyabhij??h?daya KSTS vol. 3

spandak?rik? with viv?t? by r?maka??ha KSTS vol. 6

laghuyogav?si??ha with commentary v?si??hacandrik? by v?sudeva?arma??

?r?karabh??ya being the v?ra?aiva commentary on the ved?ntas?tras

aniruddhasa?hit? edited by A. Srinavasa Iyengar

laghustuti with commentary by raghav?nanda

par?nandas?tra a tantric text written in the format of a vedic kalpas?tra

para?ambhumahimnastava a hymn in which ?iva iis addressed as ?ambhu and as
bhairava surrounded by the rays of his energies.

Harry Spier
Muktabodha


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From hspier.muktabodha at gmail.com  Sun Jun 26 22:00:33 2016
From: hspier.muktabodha at gmail.com (Harry Spier)
Date: Sun, 26 Jun 16 18:00:33 -0400
Subject: [INDOLOGY] One more etext added to Muktabodha Digital Library
Message-ID: <CAPW7aQFC8HaacrOh3THMHo84donR2K8dMbhcnJoSTWK1xNFcJA@mail.gmail.com>

Dear list members,

One more etext added to Muktabodha digital library

guhyasamAjatantra


Thanks,
Harry Spier


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From isabella.nardi at yahoo.it  Mon Jun 27 07:59:38 2016
From: isabella.nardi at yahoo.it (isabella nardi)
Date: Mon, 27 Jun 16 07:59:38 +0000
Subject: CfP: Transcultural trajectories in South Asian visual arts before	the contemporary period
In-Reply-To: <1202205374.3149099.1467014378457.JavaMail.yahoo.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1202205374.3149099.1467014378457.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>

DearColleagues,?I amorganizing a panel for the 2nd European Association for Asian Artand Archaeology Conference (Zurich,?24-27?August?2017) and I amlooking for 3-4 presenters interested in the topic described below. Please feel free to contact me with any questions and,?if you planto submit a proposal, please email me?as soon as possible indicating yourintention and topic in one or two lines. Thank you!?Best wishes,IsabellaNardi??? Call for Papers: Transculturaltrajectories in South Asian visual arts before the contemporary period
Contact: Isabella Nardi, isabella.nardi at yahoo.it ?Panel description: In the past few years, transculturalismhas become a valuable critical tool in the study of contemporary and global SouthAsian art and visual culture, whereas this framework of analysis is still marginalin the study of earlier periods which are often dominated by religious,textual, dynastic, iconographic, and other Eurocentric narratives, and by regionallylimited investigations permeated by notions of cultural and artisticauthenticity. ?Thepurpose of this panel is to extend the transcultural lens to the pre-contemporaryart scenes of South Asia - including its ancient, classical, pre-modern andmodern productions - by considering them as manifestations of global flows and,at the same time, move beyond our established methods in an attempt to reach aless biased reading of South Asian visual arts.?Papers areinvited to focus on art objects, buildings, iconographies etc., that emergedfrom South Asian internal trajectories or from interactions with Asia, Europe,etc. Topics of interest include (but are not limited to) the following:?   
   - Study of the migration or circulation ofobjects, people, ideas, images, themes, techniques etc., to consider them asvehicles of transcultural interaction. 
   - Analysis of specific sites, group of objects,themes etc. together with their modes of visual adaptation and appropriation.
   - Critical assessment of the strengths, limits,and dissonances that arise in adopting the transcultural lens in the study ofSouth Asian art history as opposed to the traditional frameworks ofinvestigation.
   - Question established terminologies,geographical boundaries, periodizations, and mutually exclusive binaries thatpervade our field, such as high vs low art (e.g. courtly vs folkrepresentations), center vs periphery (e.g. imperial vs sub-imperial/provincialproductions), modern vs traditional, authentic vs hybrid, religious vs political.
?Abstract: 250 words. Also includea short bio at the end of the abstract indicating your position andaffiliation. Please submit your abstract to isabella.nardi at yahoo.it by 30 September2016. ?Membership: EAAA membership isa prerequisite for participation to the conference. ?Annual membership fees are 30 ? (10 ? forstudents). Please check the website for payments and other conferenceinformation: http://www.ea-aaa.eu/events/events ?


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From dermot at grevatt.force9.co.uk  Mon Jun 27 09:34:26 2016
From: dermot at grevatt.force9.co.uk (dermot at grevatt.force9.co.uk)
Date: Mon, 27 Jun 16 10:34:26 +0100
Subject: [INDOLOGY] amsala
In-Reply-To: <CAB3-dzeTx_9xwDcpqZ8BqAx+KvqZ3RCFc=h7+BWzRXWDyWOGxw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5770F322.8220.A9D848@dermot.grevatt.force9.co.uk>

Dear Madhav,

Thank you for the Panini reference.

Eggeling must have been influenced by the context. As you suggest, the only way amsala 
could fit the context would be through a shift in meaning in the direction of "strengthening, 
nourishing, plump, juicy..." -- certainly not "tough".

With best wishes,

Dermot

On 25 Jun 2016 at 15:59, Madhav Deshpande wrote:

Hello Dermot and Herman,

At least in Paini's understanding, the words vatsa+la and asa+la are derived respectively 
in the sense of kama "love" and bala "strength," sutra: vatsasabhya kamabale (P. 5.2.98). 
Thus, for Paini, these words mean "loving, affectionate" and "strong," respectively. That 
meaning for asala would not fit the ?Satapatha passage: a?snamy evaham asala ced 
bhavati, suggesting that the word had some other meaning making the meat more 
edible/desirable, and hence "tender" is a likely contextual meaning. May be "plump, juicy". 

Madhav Deshpande

On Sat, Jun 25, 2016 at 3:43 PM, Herman Tull <hermantull at gmail.com> wrote:

    Dermot, 
    I worked on this 30 years ago, and I remember asking the exact same question. If 
    memory serves correctly (and it may be
    unreliablehere), I believe Sayana's commentary 
    ishelpful here 
     in getting to Eggeling's definition. 
     (I'm away from my library right now, and I cannot check 
    .) 
    Herman Herman Tull
    Princeton, NJ
    On Jun 25, 2016 11:19 AM, <dermot at grevatt.force9.co.uk> wrote:
    Can someone help with a bit of brAhmaNa interpretation?
    
    Monier-Williams and Mayrhofer both say aMsala means "strong", connecting it 
    with aMsa
    "shoulder". Mayrhofer adds that it's used mainly with reference to cattle and 
    meat.
    
    In xatapatha brAhmaNa 3.1.2.21 Eggeling translates it "tender".
    
    The context is a prohibition on eating beef -- apparently not for everyone at all 
    times, but for
    someone undertaking dIkSA. After an arthavAda justifying the prohibition, 
    YAjnavalkya is
    quoted as saying "axnAmy evAham aMsalaM ced bhavati."
    
    Eggeling: "I, for one, eat it, provided that it is tender."
    
    Is there any evidence for a meaning "tender", or is Eggeling taking a liberty to 
    give
    YAjnavalkya a good punch line?
    
    I realise that ancient Indian diet can be a sensitive issue, but the question here 
    seems to be
    about YAjnavalkya's culinary preference.
    
    I'd be grateful for any clarification.
    
    Dermot
    
    --
    Dermot Killingley
    9, Rectory Drive,
    Gosforth,
    Newcastle upon Tyne NE3 1XT
    Phone (0191) 285 8053
    
    
    _______________________________________________
    INDOLOGY mailing list
    INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
    indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee)
    http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or 
    unsubscribe)
    
    _______________________________________________
    INDOLOGY mailing list
    INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
    indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee)
    http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe)


--
Madhav M. Deshpande
Professor of Sanskrit and Linguistics
Department of Asian Languages and Cultures
202 South Thayer Street, Suite 6111
The University of Michigan
Ann Arbor, MI 48104-1608, USA

-- 
Dermot Killingley
9, Rectory Drive,
Gosforth,
Newcastle upon Tyne NE3 1XT
Phone (0191) 285 8053



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From dermot at grevatt.force9.co.uk  Mon Jun 27 09:34:26 2016
From: dermot at grevatt.force9.co.uk (dermot at grevatt.force9.co.uk)
Date: Mon, 27 Jun 16 10:34:26 +0100
Subject: [INDOLOGY] amsala
In-Reply-To: <CAFdBLNgfrqziNzjZenLssKw42bzSaWvAXJ5RE5Oy0fc5dtg_og@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5770F322.17790.A9D8F3@dermot.grevatt.force9.co.uk>

Dear Herman,

Thank you very much. I've just looked at Sayana (in Weber's SBr).

He says "because by eating either [cow or ox] the body becomes strong, therefore I would 
eat the anna of both". 

So Sayana seems to be understanding amsala as "strong", and treating ced as if it meant 
"because" instead of "if".

Odd that he should say "anna", because that usually means grain, or else food in general. 
The SBr text just uses the genitive, leaving mAMsa or the like to be understood. Perhaps 
Sayana was too squeamish to say mAMsa.

With best wishes,

Dermot

On 25 Jun 2016 at 15:43, Herman Tull wrote:


Dermot, 
I worked on this 30 years ago, and I remember asking the exact same question. If memory 
serves correctly (and it may be
unreliablehere), I believe Sayana's commentary 
ishelpful here 
 in getting to Eggeling's definition. 
 (I'm away from my library right now, and I cannot check 
.) 
Herman Herman Tull
Princeton, NJ
On Jun 25, 2016 11:19 AM, <dermot at grevatt.force9.co.uk> wrote:
    Can someone help with a bit of brAhmaNa interpretation?
    
    Monier-Williams and Mayrhofer both say aMsala means "strong", connecting it with 
    aMsa
    "shoulder". Mayrhofer adds that it's used mainly with reference to cattle and meat.
    
    In xatapatha brAhmaNa 3.1.2.21 Eggeling translates it "tender".
    
    The context is a prohibition on eating beef -- apparently not for everyone at all times, 
    but for
    someone undertaking dIkSA. After an arthavAda justifying the prohibition, YAjnavalkya 
    is
    quoted as saying "axnAmy evAham aMsalaM ced bhavati."
    
    Eggeling: "I, for one, eat it, provided that it is tender."
    
    Is there any evidence for a meaning "tender", or is Eggeling taking a liberty to give
    YAjnavalkya a good punch line?
    
    I realise that ancient Indian diet can be a sensitive issue, but the question here seems 
    to be
    about YAjnavalkya's culinary preference.
    
    I'd be grateful for any clarification.
    
    Dermot
    
    --
    Dermot Killingley
    9, Rectory Drive,
    Gosforth,
    Newcastle upon Tyne NE3 1XT
    Phone (0191) 285 8053
    
    
    _______________________________________________
    INDOLOGY mailing list
    INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
    indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee)
    http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe)

-- 
Dermot Killingley
9, Rectory Drive,
Gosforth,
Newcastle upon Tyne NE3 1XT
Phone (0191) 285 8053



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From andra.kleb at gmail.com  Mon Jun 27 14:33:01 2016
From: andra.kleb at gmail.com (Andrey Klebanov)
Date: Mon, 27 Jun 16 16:33:01 +0200
Subject: =?utf-8?Q?[INDOLOGY]_kha=E1=B9=87=E1=B8=8Da-_and_da=E1=B9=87=E1=B8=8D=C4=81nvaya?=
Message-ID: <739F78CD-3708-40E3-AD06-95311070D9DD@googlemail.com>

Dear members of the list, 

in some articles (S. Pollock?s 2015? contribution to the ?World Philology? volume, or N.V.P. Unithiri's 2002? article ?The Commentarial Literature in Sanskrit?) I read that the commentarial styles of da??a- and kha???nvaya- stem from (the linguistic theories? textual history? of) ny?ya- and m?m??s? respectively. As far as at least the the linguistic theories go (I talk of their ??bdabodha-aspect now), I don?t see any compulsive reason for this strict differentiation.
I wonder if anyone could help me out with any further reference or, perhaps, a missing piece of common knowledge that would explain or corroborate the above statement. 

Thank you very much in advance, 

best, 
Andrey 




From scharfpm7 at gmail.com  Mon Jun 27 14:43:52 2016
From: scharfpm7 at gmail.com (Peter Scharf)
Date: Mon, 27 Jun 16 10:43:52 -0400
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Sanskrit Syntax book link
Message-ID: <784237C6-69D5-483C-869D-8FF60630E686@gmail.com>

Dear Fellow Indologists,
	The hard-cover edition of the Sanskrit Library's publication of Sanskrit Syntax: Selected papers presented at the seminar on Sanskrit syntax and discourse structures, 13-15 June 2013, Universit? Paris Diderot, with an updated and revised bibliography by Hans Henrich Hock, edited by me (Peter Scharf) is available today for a 35% discount (ordinarily $60 from commercial publishers and directly from Lulu.com at a 40% discounted price of $36) from Lulu.com with code LULU35.

I have created a spotlight page at lulu.com for the book and have a link to it on the Sanskrit Library publications page.  These links, the link to the seminar and its program, and the general table of contents are provided below.  Please forward this information to colleagues who may be interested and other relevant lists.
Thank you.

Yours,
Peter
Peter M. Scharf, President
The Sanskrit Library
scharf at sanskritlibrary.org

Sansrit syntax seminar
http://sanskritlibrary.org/syntaxParis/announcement.html

Sanskrit Library Publications
http://sanskritlibrary.org/publications.html

Lulu.com spotlight
http://www.lulu.com/spotlight/scharf

Table of contents
Preface iii
Contributors ix

Some issues in Sanskrit syntax
HANS HENRICH HOCK 1

Derivation and interpretation in P??ini?s system
GEORGE CARDONA 53

Extension rules and the syntax of A???dhy?y? s?tras with -vati
GEORGE CARDONA 109

Voice, preverb, and transitivity restrictions in Sanskrit verb use
PETER SCHARF, PAWAN GOYAL, ANUJA AJOTIKAR, and TANUJA AJOTIKAR 157

Interrogatives and word-order in Sanskrit
PETER M. SCHARF 203

To classify words: European and Indian grammatical approaches
?MILIE AUSSANT 219

Constituency and cotextual dependence in Classical Sanskrit
BRENDAN S. GILLON 237

How free is ?free? word order in Sanskrit?
AMBA KULKARNI, PREETI SHUKLA, PAVANKUMAR SATULURI and DEVANAND SHUKL 269

Distinctive features of poetic syntax: preliminary results
PETER SCHARF, ANUJA AJOTIKAR, SAMPADA SAVARDEKAR, and PAWAN GOYAL 305

Meter identification of Sanskrit verse
KESHAV MELNAD, PAWAN GOYAL and PETER SCHARF 325

On concord and government relations in Sanskrit
PRASAD P. JOSHI 347

Parse trees for erroneous sentences
DIPESH KATIRA and MALHAR KULKARNI 361

A bibliography of Sanskrit syntax 399
A???dhy?y? s?tra index 471
Author index 477
Title index 487



*************************
Peter M. Scharf
scharfpm7 at gmail.com
*************************



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From christophe.vielle at uclouvain.be  Mon Jun 27 20:54:06 2016
From: christophe.vielle at uclouvain.be (Christophe Vielle)
Date: Mon, 27 Jun 16 22:54:06 +0200
Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_[INDOLOGY]_kha=E1=B9=87=E1=B8=8Da-_and_da=E1=B9=87=E1=B8=8D=C4=81nvaya?=
In-Reply-To: <739F78CD-3708-40E3-AD06-95311070D9DD@googlemail.com>
Message-ID: <7BC3C2B7-6608-4F49-AA7D-1A6FF867E41F@uclouvain.be>

Dear Andrey,

when I came across such a statement in secondary literature I wondered also what could be the precise Sanskrit source attributing to M?m??s? or Ny?ya, respectively, these two types/methods of (k?vya) commenting (more precisely, of re-establishing the natural/prose syntactical order of the words in the sentence, either "by sections"/syntagmatically?, or ?"by line"?). 
In the kha???nvaya method, the verb is taken first, ad then, in respect of cases, questions are asked ; so, through the successive questions, the prose order of the verse is drawn. In the da???nvaya method (followed e.g. by Mallin?tha), the subject is taken first and the prose order of the verse is logically drawn without including questions.
Maybe this attribution is based on the fact that in the first case there is a prevalence of "questioning" which looks a bit like the (P?rva and Uttara-)M?m??s? traditional dialectic method of adhikara?a (used for commenting the s?tra's),  whereas in the second case it would be considered like a purely logical (naiy?yika) way of operating. 
It is a mere supposition because only the sa??aya expression is marked by questions in the adhikara?a, the definition of which is found in the following stray verse (found with variants) something attributed to Kum?rila :
vi?ayo sa??aya? caiva  p?rvapak?as tathottaram |

nir?aya? ceti pa?c??ga?  ??stre ?dhikara?a? sm?tam ||

Best wishes,
Christophe Vielle

Le 27 juin 2016 ? 16:33, Andrey Klebanov <andra.kleb at gmail.com> a ?crit :

> Dear members of the list, 
> 
> in some articles (S. Pollock?s 2015? contribution to the ?World Philology? volume, or N.V.P. Unithiri's 2002? article ?The Commentarial Literature in Sanskrit?) I read that the commentarial styles of da??a- and kha???nvaya- stem from (the linguistic theories? textual history? of) ny?ya- and m?m??s? respectively. As far as at least the the linguistic theories go (I talk of their ??bdabodha-aspect now), I don?t see any compulsive reason for this strict differentiation.
> I wonder if anyone could help me out with any further reference or, perhaps, a missing piece of common knowledge that would explain or corroborate the above statement. 
> 
> Thank you very much in advance, 
> 
> best, 
> Andrey 
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe)

???????????????????
Christophe Vielle
Louvain-la-Neuve



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From McComas.Taylor at anu.edu.au  Mon Jun 27 23:59:52 2016
From: McComas.Taylor at anu.edu.au (McComas Taylor)
Date: Mon, 27 Jun 16 23:59:52 +0000
Subject: =?utf-8?Q?[INDOLOGY]_'Snippets_from_Abhij=C3=B1=C4=81na=C5=9B=C4=81kuntala_the_Musical'_by_Duncan_Standish?=
Message-ID: <KL1PR0601MB1432648A597E0C819FBAAE03AE210@KL1PR0601MB1432.apcprd06.prod.outlook.com>

Dear Colleagues


Every year our third-year Sanskrit students read extracts from K?lid?sa's 'Abhij??na??kuntala'. As part of the program, each student is required to undertake a creative project based on the play. They make the play their 'own' by reinterpreting it in a medium in which they excel. The final project can be in any form -- except an essay.


I am delighted to share one of the most outstanding projects of the year with you, 'Snippets from Abhij??na??kuntala the Musical' by Duncan Standish. In it, you will hear the king Du?yanta describing the season of summer and giving instructions to his charioteer as they pursue a deer through the forest. In the third snippet the king describes the beauty of the heroine ?akuntal?.


https://alliance.anu.edu.au/access/content/user/u3936301/shakuntala_project_2016/Duncan_Snippets%20from%20Abhijnana%20-%20The%20Musical.mp3


I am sure Duncan your be delighted to hear from you if you enjoyed his work:  u5688243 at anu.edu.au


I can't help feeling that K?lid?sa himself would be pleased with this.


Yours


McComas



________________________________
McComas Taylor, Associate Professor
Reader in Sanskrit
College of Asia and the Pacific
The Australian National University, Tel. + 61 2 6125 3179
Website: https://sites.google.com/site/mccomasanu/

Address: Baldessin Building 4.24, ANU, ACT 0200


Spoken Sanskrit in three minutes?<https://vimeo.com/143211561> Go on. Try it!<https://vimeo.com/143211561>
<https://vimeo.com/143211561>

________________________________


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From mailmealakendudas at rediffmail.com  Tue Jun 28 06:32:57 2016
From: mailmealakendudas at rediffmail.com (alakendu das)
Date: Tue, 28 Jun 16 06:32:57 +0000
Subject: [INDOLOGY] AMARAVATI STUPA
Message-ID: <20160628063257.11679.qmail@f4mail-235-131.rediffmail.com>



 Thanks everybody for responses on my Amaravati query. I apologise for replying late.



                                                          ALAKENDU DAS


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From nagarajpaturi at gmail.com  Tue Jun 28 08:52:14 2016
From: nagarajpaturi at gmail.com (Nagaraj Paturi)
Date: Tue, 28 Jun 16 14:22:14 +0530
Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_[INDOLOGY]=09kha=E1=B9=87=E1=B8=8Da-_and_da=E1=B9=87=E1=B8=8D=C4=81nvaya?=
In-Reply-To: <7BC3C2B7-6608-4F49-AA7D-1A6FF867E41F@uclouvain.be>
Message-ID: <CAJGj9eap_zH3w53++Q9SH8nC75tUJZmZcPXR4-ScUoNAzpE2FQ@mail.gmail.com>

Dear Prof. Klebanov,

> I read that the commentarial styles of da??a- and kha???nvaya- stem from
(the linguistic theories? textual history? of) ny?ya- and m?m??s?
respectively

If you remember the exact place where you read this, you might want to
consult with the original authors about this.

The naiyaayika view of sentence as
yogyataakaankshaasattisahitapadasamudaaya includes the idea of aakaankshaa
and the method of aakaankshaa that is followed in traditional Sanskrit
learning need not necessarily be connected to this.

The two meemaamsaka schools of abhihitaanvayavaada and
anvitaabhidhaanavaada too need not necessarily be connected to daNDa or
khaNDa anvaya.

But the authors who mentioned the point might have some basis for their
observations.

They are the best ones to consult in this regard.

Regards,

-N

On Tue, Jun 28, 2016 at 2:24 AM, Christophe Vielle <
christophe.vielle at uclouvain.be> wrote:

> Dear Andrey,
>
> when I came across such a statement in secondary literature I wondered
> also what could be the precise Sanskrit source attributing to M?m??s? or
> Ny?ya, respectively, these two types/methods of (*k?vya*) commenting
> (more precisely, of re-establishing the natural/prose syntactical order of
> the words in the sentence, either "by sections"/syntagmatically?, or ?"by
> line"?).
> In the *kha???nvaya* method, the verb is taken first, ad then, in respect
> of cases, questions are asked ; so, through the successive questions, the
> prose order of the verse is drawn. In the *da???nvaya* method (followed
> e.g. by Mallin?tha), the subject is taken first and the prose order of the
> verse is logically drawn without including questions.
> Maybe this attribution is based on the fact that in the first case there
> is a prevalence of "questioning" which looks a bit like the (P?rva and
> Uttara-)M?m??s? traditional dialectic method of *adhikara?a *(used for
> commenting the *s?tra's*),  whereas in the second case it would be
> considered like a purely logical (*naiy?yika)* way of operating.
> It is a mere supposition because only the *sa??aya* expression is marked
> by questions in the *adhikara?a*, the definition of which is found in the
> following stray verse (found with variants) something attributed to Kum?rila
> :
>
> vi?ayo sa??aya? caiva  p?rvapak?as tathottaram |
>
> nir?aya? ceti pa?c??ga?  ??stre ?dhikara?a? sm?tam ||
> Best wishes,
> Christophe Vielle
>
> Le 27 juin 2016 ? 16:33, Andrey Klebanov <andra.kleb at gmail.com> a ?crit :
>
> Dear members of the list,
>
> in some articles (S. Pollock?s 2015? contribution to the ?World Philology?
> volume, or N.V.P. Unithiri's 2002? article ?The Commentarial Literature in
> Sanskrit?) I read that the commentarial styles of da??a- and kha???nvaya-
> stem from (the linguistic theories? textual history? of) ny?ya- and m?m??s?
> respectively. As far as at least the the linguistic theories go (I talk of
> their ??bdabodha-aspect now), I don?t see any compulsive reason for this
> strict differentiation.
> I wonder if anyone could help me out with any further reference or,
> perhaps, a missing piece of common knowledge that would explain or
> corroborate the above statement.
>
> Thank you very much in advance,
>
> best,
> Andrey
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
> committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
> unsubscribe)
>
>
> ???????????????????
> Christophe Vielle <http://www.uclouvain.be/christophe.vielle>
> Louvain-la-Neuve
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
> committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
> unsubscribe)
>



-- 
Nagaraj Paturi

Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.

Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies

FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of  Liberal Education,

(Pune, Maharashtra, INDIA )


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From andra.kleb at gmail.com  Tue Jun 28 14:25:55 2016
From: andra.kleb at gmail.com (Andrey Klebanov)
Date: Tue, 28 Jun 16 16:25:55 +0200
Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_[INDOLOGY]_kha=E1=B9=87=E1=B8=8Da-_and_da=E1=B9=87=E1=B8=8D=C4=81nvaya?=
In-Reply-To: <CAJGj9eap_zH3w53++Q9SH8nC75tUJZmZcPXR4-ScUoNAzpE2FQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <22FDCC45-B7C5-47C9-A959-29050E407A7C@googlemail.com>

Dear Prof. Paturi, 

thank you very much for sharing your thoughts on the subject, These were, in fact, more or less exactly the same concerns that I had when thinking over the above statement. I have now also started wondering, if the subtle difference in the approaches to ?k??k?? (a more question-oriented *anvayapratiyogivi?ayakajij??s? of the ??m??saka-s and more ?grammatical" *abhidh?n?paryavas?nam of naiy?yika-s, both general definitions taken from the ??bdabodham?m??s?) may be of some relevance here.
In any case, I still consider it likely that the article authors (S. Pollock and NVP Unithiri, as I mentioned in my first mail) were referring to the textual history rather than the conceptual framework of the ??stra-s. 

best regards, 
Andrey
(I am quite far from being a professor, but thank you very much for your respectful address)

> On 06/28/2016, at 10:52, Nagaraj Paturi <nagarajpaturi at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Dear Prof. Klebanov,
> 
> > I read that the commentarial styles of da??a- and kha???nvaya- stem from (the linguistic theories? textual history? of) ny?ya- and m?m??s? respectively
> 
> If you remember the exact place where you read this, you might want to consult with the original authors about this.
> 
> The naiyaayika view of sentence as yogyataakaankshaasattisahitapadasamudaaya includes the idea of aakaankshaa and the method of aakaankshaa that is followed in traditional Sanskrit learning need not necessarily be connected to this.
> 
> The two meemaamsaka schools of abhihitaanvayavaada and anvitaabhidhaanavaada too need not necessarily be connected to daNDa or khaNDa anvaya.
> 
> But the authors who mentioned the point might have some basis for their observations.
> 
> They are the best ones to consult in this regard.
> 
> Regards,
> 
> -N
> 
> On Tue, Jun 28, 2016 at 2:24 AM, Christophe Vielle <christophe.vielle at uclouvain.be <mailto:christophe.vielle at uclouvain.be>> wrote:
> Dear Andrey,
> 
> when I came across such a statement in secondary literature I wondered also what could be the precise Sanskrit source attributing to M?m??s? or Ny?ya, respectively, these two types/methods of (k?vya) commenting (more precisely, of re-establishing the natural/prose syntactical order of the words in the sentence, either "by sections"/syntagmatically?, or ?"by line"?). 
> In the kha???nvaya method, the verb is taken first, ad then, in respect of cases, questions are asked ; so, through the successive questions, the prose order of the verse is drawn. In the da???nvaya method (followed e.g. by Mallin?tha), the subject is taken first and the prose order of the verse is logically drawn without including questions.
> Maybe this attribution is based on the fact that in the first case there is a prevalence of "questioning" which looks a bit like the (P?rva and Uttara-)M?m??s? traditional dialectic method of adhikara?a (used for commenting the s?tra's),  whereas in the second case it would be considered like a purely logical (naiy?yika) way of operating. 
> It is a mere supposition because only the sa??aya expression is marked by questions in the adhikara?a, the definition of which is found in the following stray verse (found with variants) something attributed to Kum?rila :
> vi?ayo sa??aya? caiva  p?rvapak?as tathottaram |
> 
> nir?aya? ceti pa?c??ga?  ??stre ?dhikara?a? sm?tam ||
> 
> Best wishes,
> Christophe Vielle
> 
> Le 27 juin 2016 ? 16:33, Andrey Klebanov <andra.kleb at gmail.com <mailto:andra.kleb at gmail.com>> a ?crit :
> 
>> Dear members of the list, 
>> 
>> in some articles (S. Pollock?s 2015? contribution to the ?World Philology? volume, or N.V.P. Unithiri's 2002? article ?The Commentarial Literature in Sanskrit?) I read that the commentarial styles of da??a- and kha???nvaya- stem from (the linguistic theories? textual history? of) ny?ya- and m?m??s? respectively. As far as at least the the linguistic theories go (I talk of their ??bdabodha-aspect now), I don?t see any compulsive reason for this strict differentiation.
>> I wonder if anyone could help me out with any further reference or, perhaps, a missing piece of common knowledge that would explain or corroborate the above statement. 
>> 
>> Thank you very much in advance, 
>> 
>> best, 
>> Andrey 
>> _______________________________________________
>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info <mailto:INDOLOGY at list.indology.info>
>> indology-owner at list.indology.info <mailto:indology-owner at list.indology.info> (messages to the list's managing committee)
>> http://listinfo.indology.info <http://listinfo.indology.info/> (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe)
> 
> ???????????????????
> Christophe Vielle <http://www.uclouvain.be/christophe.vielle>
> Louvain-la-Neuve
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info <mailto:INDOLOGY at list.indology.info>
> indology-owner at list.indology.info <mailto:indology-owner at list.indology.info> (messages to the list's managing committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info <http://listinfo.indology.info/> (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe)
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Nagaraj Paturi
>  
> Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.
>  
> Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies
>  
> FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of  Liberal Education,
>  
> (Pune, Maharashtra, INDIA )
>  
>  
>  



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From v.a.van.bijlert at vu.nl  Wed Jun 29 08:44:17 2016
From: v.a.van.bijlert at vu.nl (Bijlert, V.A. van)
Date: Wed, 29 Jun 16 08:44:17 +0000
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Zero foundation
Message-ID: <CDC4C7747D50984E8BA0A4224A0208D9E3FFDE95@PEXMB300A.vu.local>

I'm asked to draw attention to the document that is attached to this mail.
Sincerely
Victor van Bijlert


________________________________

Dr. Victor A. van Bijlert
lecturer Indian religions and Sanskrit
Faculty of Theology, Vrije Universiteit Amsterdam
De Boelelaan 1105, NL-1081 HV Amsterdam, The Netherlands
v.a.van.bijlert at vu.nl<mailto:v.a.van.bijlert at vu.nl>
+31613184203


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From slindqui at mail.smu.edu  Wed Jun 29 11:57:05 2016
From: slindqui at mail.smu.edu (Lindquist, Steven)
Date: Wed, 29 Jun 16 11:57:05 +0000
Subject: [INDOLOGY] amsala
In-Reply-To: <CAB3-dzeTx_9xwDcpqZ8BqAx+KvqZ3RCFc=h7+BWzRXWDyWOGxw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <D3991DC1.20F3F%slindqui@smu.edu>

See also:

Mehendale, M.A.  1977.  "a??al?" in Beitr?ge zur Indienforschung Ernst Waldschmidt zum 80, Berlin: Museum f?r Ind. Kunst, pp. 315-318.

In an unfortunate twist, my PDF of the article is apparently corrupted.  I will look for the paper copy in my files, but until then if anyone happens to have a PDF easily available, that would be much appreciated.

My best,

Steven


STEVEN LINDQUIST, PH.D.
ASSOCIATE PROFESSOR, RELIGIOUS STUDIES
DIRECTOR, ASIAN STUDIES
____________________

Dedman College of Humanities and Sciences, SMU
PO Box 750202 | Dallas | TX | 75275
Email: slindqui at smu.edu<mailto:slindqui at smu.edu>
Web: http://faculty.smu.edu/slindqui


From: INDOLOGY <indology-bounces at list.indology.info<mailto:indology-bounces at list.indology.info>> on behalf of Madhav Deshpande <mmdesh at umich.edu<mailto:mmdesh at umich.edu>>
Date: Saturday, June 25, 2016 at 2:59 PM
To: Herman Tull <hermantull at gmail.com<mailto:hermantull at gmail.com>>
Cc: Indology <indology at list.indology.info<mailto:indology at list.indology.info>>
Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] amsala

Hello Dermot and Herman,

At least in P??ini's understanding, the words vatsa+la and a?sa+la are derived respectively in the sense of k?ma "love" and bala "strength," s?tra: vats??s?bhy?? k?mabale (P. 5.2.98).  Thus, for P??ini, these words mean "loving, affectionate" and "strong," respectively.  That meaning for a?sala would not fit the ?atapatha passage: a?n?my ev?ham a?sala? ced bhavati, suggesting that the word had some other meaning making the meat more edible/desirable, and hence "tender" is a likely contextual meaning.  May be "plump, juicy".

Madhav Deshpande

On Sat, Jun 25, 2016 at 3:43 PM, Herman Tull <hermantull at gmail.com<mailto:hermantull at gmail.com>> wrote:

?
Dermot,

I worked on this 30 years ago,? and I remember asking the exact same question. If memory serves correctly (and it may be

?unreliable
 here), I believe Sayana's commentary
?is
 helpful here
? in getting to Eggeling's definition?
.
?
(I'm away from my library right now, and I cannot check
?.?
)?

?Herman

Herman Tull
Princeton, NJ

On Jun 25, 2016 11:19 AM, <dermot at grevatt.force9.co.uk<mailto:dermot at grevatt.force9.co.uk>> wrote:
Can someone help with a bit of brAhmaNa interpretation?

Monier-Williams and Mayrhofer both say aMsala means "strong", connecting it with aMsa
"shoulder". Mayrhofer adds that it's used mainly with reference to cattle and meat.

In xatapatha brAhmaNa 3.1.2.21 Eggeling translates it "tender".

The context is a prohibition on eating beef -- apparently not for everyone at all times, but for
someone undertaking dIkSA. After an arthavAda justifying the prohibition, YAjnavalkya is
quoted as saying "axnAmy evAham aMsalaM ced bhavati."

Eggeling: "I, for one, eat it, provided that it is tender."

Is there any evidence for a meaning "tender", or is Eggeling taking a liberty to give
YAjnavalkya a good punch line?

I realise that ancient Indian diet can be a sensitive issue, but the question here seems to be
about YAjnavalkya's culinary preference.

I'd be grateful for any clarification.

Dermot

--
Dermot Killingley
9, Rectory Drive,
Gosforth,
Newcastle upon Tyne NE3 1XT
Phone (0191) 285 8053


_______________________________________________
INDOLOGY mailing list
INDOLOGY at list.indology.info<mailto:INDOLOGY at list.indology.info>
indology-owner at list.indology.info<mailto:indology-owner at list.indology.info> (messages to the list's managing committee)
http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe)

_______________________________________________
INDOLOGY mailing list
INDOLOGY at list.indology.info<mailto:INDOLOGY at list.indology.info>
indology-owner at list.indology.info<mailto:indology-owner at list.indology.info> (messages to the list's managing committee)
http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe)



--
Madhav M. Deshpande
Professor of Sanskrit and Linguistics
Department of Asian Languages and Cultures
202 South Thayer Street, Suite 6111
The University of Michigan
Ann Arbor, MI 48104-1608, USA


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From dnreigle at gmail.com  Wed Jun 29 17:47:28 2016
From: dnreigle at gmail.com (David and Nancy Reigle)
Date: Wed, 29 Jun 16 11:47:28 -0600
Subject: [INDOLOGY] amsala
In-Reply-To: <D3991DC1.20F3F%slindqui@smu.edu>
Message-ID: <CAPAZekZ4=Bh-KeUgsby_xs3O-VMhuGdtYQgOktiZXgLbqJWvag@mail.gmail.com>

With this tip from Steven, I was able to see that M. A. Mehendale's article
on a?sala is included in *Madhu-vidy?: Prof. Madhukar Anant Mehendale
Collected Papers* (Ahmedabad: L. D. Institute of Indology, 2001). It was
reprinted there on pp. 139-142. If no one comes up with a PDF sooner, I can
scan this later today. This book, by the way, is 736 pages, filled with his
valuable articles.

Best regards,

David Reigle
Colorado, U.S.A.

On Wed, Jun 29, 2016 at 5:57 AM, Lindquist, Steven <slindqui at mail.smu.edu>
wrote:

> See also:
>
> Mehendale, M.A.  1977.  "a??al?" in *Beitr?ge zur Indienforschung** Ernst
> Waldschmidt **zum 80*, Berlin: Museum f?r Ind. Kunst, pp. 315-318.
>
>
> In an unfortunate twist, my PDF of the article is apparently corrupted.  I
> will look for the paper copy in my files, but until then if anyone happens
> to have a PDF easily available, that would be much appreciated.
>
>
> My best,
>
>
> Steven
>
>
>
> *S**TEVEN* *L**INDQUIST**,** P**H**.D.*
>
> *ASSOCIATE PROFESSOR, RELIGIOUS STUDIES*
>
> *D**IRECTOR, **A**SIAN** S**TUDIES*
>
> *____________________*
>
>
> *Dedman College of Humanities and Sciences, SMU*
>
> *PO Box 750202 | Dallas | TX | 75275*
>
> *Email: slindqui at smu.edu <slindqui at smu.edu>*
>
> *Web: http://faculty.smu.edu/slindqui <http://faculty.smu.edu/slindqui>*
>
>
>
> From: INDOLOGY <indology-bounces at list.indology.info> on behalf of Madhav
> Deshpande <mmdesh at umich.edu>
> Date: Saturday, June 25, 2016 at 2:59 PM
> To: Herman Tull <hermantull at gmail.com>
> Cc: Indology <indology at list.indology.info>
> Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] amsala
>
> Hello Dermot and Herman,
>
> At least in P??ini's understanding, the words vatsa+la and a?sa+la are
> derived respectively in the sense of k?ma "love" and bala "strength,"
> s?tra: vats??s?bhy?? k?mabale (P. 5.2.98).  Thus, for P??ini, these words
> mean "loving, affectionate" and "strong," respectively.  That meaning for
> a?sala would not fit the ?atapatha passage: a?n?my ev?ham a?sala? ced
> bhavati, suggesting that the word had some other meaning making the meat
> more edible/desirable, and hence "tender" is a likely contextual meaning.
> May be "plump, juicy".
>
> Madhav Deshpande
>
> On Sat, Jun 25, 2016 at 3:43 PM, Herman Tull <hermantull at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> ?
>> Dermot,
>>
>> I worked on this 30 years ago,? and I remember asking the exact same
>> question. If memory serves correctly (and it may be
>> ?unreliable
>>  here), I believe Sayana's commentary
>> ?is
>>  helpful here
>> ? in getting to Eggeling's definition?
>> .
>> ?
>> (I'm away from my library right now, and I cannot check
>> ?.?
>> )?
>>
>> ?Herman
>>
>> Herman Tull
>> Princeton, NJ
>> On Jun 25, 2016 11:19 AM, <dermot at grevatt.force9.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>>> Can someone help with a bit of brAhmaNa interpretation?
>>>
>>> Monier-Williams and Mayrhofer both say aMsala means "strong", connecting
>>> it with aMsa
>>> "shoulder". Mayrhofer adds that it's used mainly with reference to
>>> cattle and meat.
>>>
>>> In xatapatha brAhmaNa 3.1.2.21 Eggeling translates it "tender".
>>>
>>> The context is a prohibition on eating beef -- apparently not for
>>> everyone at all times, but for
>>> someone undertaking dIkSA. After an arthavAda justifying the
>>> prohibition, YAjnavalkya is
>>> quoted as saying "axnAmy evAham aMsalaM ced bhavati."
>>>
>>> Eggeling: "I, for one, eat it, provided that it is tender."
>>>
>>> Is there any evidence for a meaning "tender", or is Eggeling taking a
>>> liberty to give
>>> YAjnavalkya a good punch line?
>>>
>>> I realise that ancient Indian diet can be a sensitive issue, but the
>>> question here seems to be
>>> about YAjnavalkya's culinary preference.
>>>
>>> I'd be grateful for any clarification.
>>>
>>> Dermot
>>>
>>> --
>>> Dermot Killingley
>>> 9, Rectory Drive,
>>> Gosforth,
>>> Newcastle upon Tyne NE3 1XT
>>> Phone (0191) 285 8053
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
>>> committee)
>>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options
>>> or unsubscribe)
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
>> committee)
>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
>> unsubscribe)
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Madhav M. Deshpande
> Professor of Sanskrit and Linguistics
> Department of Asian Languages and Cultures
> 202 South Thayer Street, Suite 6111
> The University of Michigan
> Ann Arbor, MI 48104-1608, USA
>
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing
> committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or
> unsubscribe)
>


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From harzer at utexas.edu  Wed Jun 29 21:59:03 2016
From: harzer at utexas.edu (Edeltraud Harzer)
Date: Wed, 29 Jun 16 16:59:03 -0500
Subject: [INDOLOGY] amsala
In-Reply-To: <D3991DC1.20F3F%slindqui@smu.edu>
Message-ID: <214121B3-5370-4479-93DA-B7766BD5EA6F@utexas.edu>

Hello Steven,
if you did not receive a copy yet, here it is.

Cheers,
Traude.













> On Jun 29, 2016, at 6:57 AM, Lindquist, Steven <slindqui at mail.smu.edu> wrote:
> 
> See also: 
> 
> Mehendale, M.A.  1977.  "a??al?" in Beitr?ge zur Indienforschung Ernst Waldschmidt zum 80, Berlin: Museum f?r Ind. Kunst, pp. 315-318.
> 
> In an unfortunate twist, my PDF of the article is apparently corrupted.  I will look for the paper copy in my files, but until then if anyone happens to have a PDF easily available, that would be much appreciated.
> 
> My best,
> 
> Steven
> 
> 
> STEVEN LINDQUIST, PH.D.
> ASSOCIATE PROFESSOR, RELIGIOUS STUDIES
> DIRECTOR, ASIAN STUDIES
> ____________________
> 
> Dedman College of Humanities and Sciences, SMU
> PO Box 750202 | Dallas | TX | 75275
> Email: slindqui at smu.edu <mailto:slindqui at smu.edu>
> Web: http://faculty.smu.edu/slindqui <http://faculty.smu.edu/slindqui>
> 
> 
> From: INDOLOGY <indology-bounces at list.indology.info <mailto:indology-bounces at list.indology.info>> on behalf of Madhav Deshpande <mmdesh at umich.edu <mailto:mmdesh at umich.edu>>
> Date: Saturday, June 25, 2016 at 2:59 PM
> To: Herman Tull <hermantull at gmail.com <mailto:hermantull at gmail.com>>
> Cc: Indology <indology at list.indology.info <mailto:indology at list.indology.info>>
> Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] amsala
> 
> Hello Dermot and Herman,
> 
> At least in P??ini's understanding, the words vatsa+la and a?sa+la are derived respectively in the sense of k?ma "love" and bala "strength," s?tra: vats??s?bhy?? k?mabale (P. 5.2.98).  Thus, for P??ini, these words mean "loving, affectionate" and "strong," respectively.  That meaning for a?sala would not fit the ?atapatha passage: a?n?my ev?ham a?sala? ced bhavati, suggesting that the word had some other meaning making the meat more edible/desirable, and hence "tender" is a likely contextual meaning.  May be "plump, juicy".
> 
> Madhav Deshpande
> 
> On Sat, Jun 25, 2016 at 3:43 PM, Herman Tull <hermantull at gmail.com <mailto:hermantull at gmail.com>> wrote:
>> 
>> ? Dermot,
>> 
>> I worked on this 30 years ago,? and I remember asking the exact same question. If memory serves correctly (and it may be
>> ?unreliable  here), I believe Sayana's commentary ?is  helpful here ? in getting to Eggeling's definition? . ?  (I'm away from my library right now, and I cannot check ?.? )?
>> 
>> 
>> ?Herman 
>> 
>> Herman Tull
>> Princeton, NJ
>> On Jun 25, 2016 11:19 AM, <dermot at grevatt.force9.co.uk <mailto:dermot at grevatt.force9.co.uk>> wrote:
>>> Can someone help with a bit of brAhmaNa interpretation?
>>> 
>>> Monier-Williams and Mayrhofer both say aMsala means "strong", connecting it with aMsa
>>> "shoulder". Mayrhofer adds that it's used mainly with reference to cattle and meat.
>>> 
>>> In xatapatha brAhmaNa 3.1.2.21 Eggeling translates it "tender".
>>> 
>>> The context is a prohibition on eating beef -- apparently not for everyone at all times, but for
>>> someone undertaking dIkSA. After an arthavAda justifying the prohibition, YAjnavalkya is
>>> quoted as saying "axnAmy evAham aMsalaM ced bhavati."
>>> 
>>> Eggeling: "I, for one, eat it, provided that it is tender."
>>> 
>>> Is there any evidence for a meaning "tender", or is Eggeling taking a liberty to give
>>> YAjnavalkya a good punch line?
>>> 
>>> I realise that ancient Indian diet can be a sensitive issue, but the question here seems to be
>>> about YAjnavalkya's culinary preference.
>>> 
>>> I'd be grateful for any clarification.
>>> 
>>> Dermot
>>> 
>>> --
>>> Dermot Killingley
>>> 9, Rectory Drive,
>>> Gosforth,
>>> Newcastle upon Tyne NE3 1XT
>>> Phone (0191) 285 8053
>>> 
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info <mailto:INDOLOGY at list.indology.info>
>>> indology-owner at list.indology.info <mailto:indology-owner at list.indology.info> (messages to the list's managing committee)
>>> http://listinfo.indology.info <http://listinfo.indology.info/> (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe)
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info <mailto:INDOLOGY at list.indology.info>
>> indology-owner at list.indology.info <mailto:indology-owner at list.indology.info> (messages to the list's managing committee)
>> http://listinfo.indology.info <http://listinfo.indology.info/> (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe)
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Madhav M. Deshpande
> Professor of Sanskrit and Linguistics
> Department of Asian Languages and Cultures
> 202 South Thayer Street, Suite 6111
> The University of Michigan
> Ann Arbor, MI 48104-1608, USA
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info <mailto:INDOLOGY at list.indology.info>
> indology-owner at list.indology.info <mailto:indology-owner at list.indology.info> (messages to the list's managing committee)
> http://listinfo.indology.info <http://listinfo.indology.info/> (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe)





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From mark.mcclish at northwestern.edu  Thu Jun 30 17:59:13 2016
From: mark.mcclish at northwestern.edu (Mark McClish)
Date: Thu, 30 Jun 16 17:59:13 +0000
Subject: =?utf-8?Q?[INDOLOGY]_mikky=C5=8D_mantras?=
Message-ID: <BC1CC7FC-FD4B-4855-8999-6231998ABAD0@northwestern.edu>

Dear friends,

A colleague of mine has asked for my assistance in helping to identify the origin of a set of Mikky? mantras passed down in his martial arts tradition. I haven?t the foggiest idea where to direct him for more information about such mantras, but I thought that someone on Indology might. 

The only information he has given me about these mantras is that he received them from his own teacher in the Renzai tradition, who claims they come from an 18th century Chinese source (a tiger scroll?). So far, he has used Heinemann to find equivalents for the terms. I give the transcription of the mantras as he gave them to me:

om bakoku shintaku dariya sowaka
om narida heira sowaka
om ramittosha a yoku sowaka
om hihoko matan unhada sowaka
om shatei tada tobaya sowaka
om rokei jinbara sotara sowaka

While an approximate translation of many of the terms is not difficult, I?d be grateful for any suggestions on secondary sources regarding the history of such mantra traditions in Japan. Even if he can?t trace the specific history of these mantras, I think he?d be grateful to know more about them in general.

With thanks,
Mark