[INDOLOGY] Unicode Devanagari on Mac

Justin Fifield aksobhya.buddha at gmail.com
Sat Jul 16 17:24:19 UTC 2016


One can easily make a keyboard with a 'dead key' on Windows using the 
Microsoft Keyboard Layout Creator 
(https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/download/details.aspx?id=22339). It is 
completely customizable and you can use any keyboard as the basis for 
the build.  I also use the forward slash for my dead key and find typing 
is quite fast.

I haven't tried to incorporate multiple diacritics (before this thread I 
didn't think it was possible without specialized fonts). I'm not sure 
how that would work.

- Justin Fifield

On 7/16/2016 12:31 PM, George Hart wrote:
> As someone who has worked on Indic fonts (Tamil and Devanagari as well 
> as roman transliteration) from the early 80’s and the time of the 
> Lisa, I’d like to add my thoughts. It is wonderful to be able to use 
> unicode for all the diacritical marks we need for all devices and 
> operating systems (though as noted sometimes when you have several on 
> the same letter they do not transfer well), but I don’t see that using 
> them is particularly easy when you have to press many keys at once. 
> Perhaps one can get up to speed this way, but option-(x) is pretty 
> unsatisfactory, and option-shift-(x) even more so.
>
> I don’t know all the keyboard layouts that are available for roman 
> transliteration of various South Asia languages (and, for this forum, 
> Sanskrit especially). I would hope some are easier to use than 
> option-shift-(x). The best solution, I think, is to use a dead key. 
> That way, you don’t have to keep one key pressed down while you press 
> another. I have a very simple keyboard layout for the Mac (which still 
> works in Sierra) that uses forward slash as a dead key. /a gives ā, // 
> gives /, /r gives ṛ, /h gives ḥ, etc. Any keyboard like this is easily 
> constructed using Ukulele, a free Mac app, as many on this forum know. 
> If anyone wants to try it out, here it is — 
> https://www.dropbox.com/s/twsgq6xayubqbxa/IndianRomanUnicode.keylayout.zip?dl=0. 
> It can easily be modified with Ukulele to add, for example, Vedic 
> accents. I hope it may prove useful to some scholars. (Unzip the file, 
> put it in Library/Keyboard Layouts and activate it in Language and 
> Region in System Preferences). Unfortunately, there is no way to get 
> it to work in iOS that I have found, and, of course, it doesn’t work 
> on Windows, though it should not be too hard to make a similar layout 
> for that OS.
>
> I find myself somewhat allergic to Word, whether on Windows or the Mac 
> (even the newest version). I use Nisus Writer Pro, which is written 
> entirely using the MacOS development system rather than cobbling 
> together things that have various other provenances (making Indic 
> fonts unworkable on most Mac versions of Word). I find NWP absolutely 
> indispensable and recently produced a camera-ready pdf of my 
> translation of the Akanāṉūṟu it. I recommend it highly. George
>
>
>> On Jul 16, 2016, at 9:50 AM, David Mellins <dmellins at gmail.com 
>> <mailto:dmellins at gmail.com>> wrote:
>>
>> I'd also like to thank everyone who has clarified Sanskrit 
>> diacritical inputs in El Capitan. Big relief!
>>
>> David
>> )
>> On Sat, Jul 16, 2016 at 7:14 AM, Madhav Deshpande <mmdesh at umich.edu 
>> <mailto:mmdesh at umich.edu>> wrote:
>>
>>     Another happy discovery yesterday was that OpenOffice for Mac is
>>     able to display characters with multiple markings like ā̃́, ī̃́,
>>     ū̃́, ṝ̃́ etc.  So, if one is writing something that needs
>>     characters with such multiple markings on Mac, it is possible to
>>     do a document in OpenOffice and save it as a pdf to preserve
>>     these character-markings.  I hope someday MS Word for Mac will be
>>     able to do that.  At least, for now, we can happily do Unicode
>>     Devanagari on MS Word for Mac.
>>
>>     Madhav Deshpande
>>
>>     On Sat, Jul 16, 2016 at 1:41 AM, Valerie Roebuck
>>     <vjroebuck at btinternet.com <mailto:vjroebuck at btinternet.com>> wrote:
>>
>>         Yes, It took me a while to work that out. I was on the phone
>>         to a baffled person at Apple trying to explain about my
>>         Sanskrit diacritics no longer working when the penny suddenly
>>         dropped.
>>
>>         Valerie J Roebuck
>>         Manchester, UK
>>
>>>         On 16 Jul 2016, at 03:38, Madhav Deshpande <mmdesh at umich.edu
>>>         <mailto:mmdesh at umich.edu>> wrote:
>>>
>>>         Hello Hans,
>>>
>>>          Evidently the ABC Extended Keyboard on El Kapitan operating
>>>         system is the same as the US Extended Keyboard on Maverick
>>>         and older operating systems, with just a different name.
>>>
>>>         Madhav
>>>
>>>         On Fri, Jul 15, 2016 at 8:49 PM, Hock, Hans Henrich
>>>         <hhhock at illinois.edu <mailto:hhhock at illinois.edu>> wrote:
>>>
>>>             Have you tried the US Extended keyboard, Madhav?
>>>
>>>             I use Times New Roman, which works very well with unicode
>>>
>>>             All the best
>>>
>>>             Hans
>>>
>>>             Sent from my iPhone
>>>
>>>             On Jul 15, 2016, at 16:25, Madhav Deshpande
>>>             <mmdesh at umich.edu <mailto:mmdesh at umich.edu>> wrote:
>>>
>>>>             Hans,
>>>>
>>>>                Just tested your suggestions with ABC Extended
>>>>             keyboard layout, and this does work in TextEdit and in
>>>>             Gmail, but not in MS Word.  I tried to copy and paste
>>>>             from EextEdit into Word, and the Word was not able to
>>>>             show the stacking of three diacritics like ā̃́. Glad to
>>>>             know that such combinations are possible at least on
>>>>             some platforms. Thanks, Hans, for solving one of my
>>>>             long-standing problems. With best wishes,
>>>>
>>>>             Madhav
>>>>
>>>>             On Fri, Jul 15, 2016 at 5:15 PM, Madhav Deshpande
>>>>             <mmdesh at umich.edu <mailto:mmdesh at umich.edu>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>                 Hello Hans,
>>>>
>>>>                    Which keyboard-layout are you using to produce
>>>>                 these characters?
>>>>
>>>>                 Madhav
>>>>
>>>>                 On Fri, Jul 15, 2016 at 5:05 PM, Hock, Hans Henrich
>>>>                 <hhhock at illinois.edu <mailto:hhhock at illinois.edu>>
>>>>                 wrote:
>>>>
>>>>                     Dear Madhav,
>>>>
>>>>                     Though there may be some limitations on
>>>>                     stacking, it is possible to produce the
>>>>                     following symbol on the Mac (still system
>>>>                     10.9.5): ā̃́. The first diacritic (the macron)
>>>>                     is accessed by typing option a + a; the other
>>>>                     two diacritics by entering shift-option n and
>>>>                     shift-option e AFTER having typed assembled the
>>>>                     basic ā character. This post-character
>>>>                     shift-option input procedure doesn’t seem to be
>>>>                     well advertised; I more or less stumbled upon
>>>>                     it in some university’s instructions for its
>>>>                     faculty.
>>>>
>>>>                     There is one concern, however: While ā and the
>>>>                     like is treated as a single glyph in unicode
>>>>                     and thus transfers well between
>>>>                     unicode-compatible platforms, more complex
>>>>                     character, such as ā́, ā̃, or ā̃́, are not
>>>>                     single glyphs and may therefore not transfer
>>>>                     across platforms. We ran into this problem in
>>>>                     producing the documents from which the new
>>>>                     South Asia volume in the series World of
>>>>                     Linguistics have been printed, and the only
>>>>                     thing that we could do was submit a pdf-version
>>>>                     indicating the desired character shape.
>>>>
>>>>                     I hope this helps.
>>>>
>>>>                     Cheers,
>>>>
>>>>                     Hans
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>                     On 15 Jul 2016, at 13:13, Madhav Deshpande
>>>>                     <mmdesh at umich.edu <mailto:mmdesh at umich.edu>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>                     This is a question as to how to get multiple
>>>>>                     markings on the same vowel sign.  In my
>>>>>                     pre-Unicode diacritics font Manjushree-CSX, I
>>>>>                     had included, for instance, the sign for vowel
>>>>>                     "a" with three markings, length, nasality and
>>>>>                     accent.  This is necessary to represent
>>>>>                     Pāṇinian procedures accurately. Pāṇini deals
>>>>>                     with eighteen varieties of "a, i, u, ṛ" etc.
>>>>>                     differing in length, accent and nasality. Is
>>>>>                     there a way to do this with unicode fonts and
>>>>>                     keyboards?
>>>>>
>>>>>                     Madhav Deshpande
>>>>>
>>>>>                     On Fri, Jul 15, 2016 at 11:48 AM, Jeffery Long
>>>>>                     <dharmaprof108 at yahoo.com
>>>>>                     <mailto:dharmaprof108 at yahoo.com>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>                         The ABC Extended keyboard on the Mac is
>>>>>                         good for all diacritical marks. Combining
>>>>>                         the option key with a gives the macron: ā,
>>>>>                         ī, etc. Option + x = underdot: ṃ, ṣ, etc.
>>>>>                         Option + w = overdot: ṅ. Option + e =
>>>>>                         accent mark: ś.  Tilde is of course option
>>>>>                         + n: ñ.
>>>>>
>>>>>                         All the best,
>>>>>                         Jeff
>>>>>                         Dr. Jeffery D. Long
>>>>>                         Professor of Religion and Asian Studies
>>>>>                         Elizabethtown College
>>>>>                         Elizabethtown, PA
>>>>>
>>>>>                         https://etown.academia.edu/JefferyLong
>>>>>                         <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__etown.academia.edu_JefferyLong&d=CwMFaQ&c=8hUWFZcy2Z-Za5rBPlktOQ&r=yKOAMu7Fm_W5kv9CXfjbmb6aWTY6BVQCYZ5TKkB486Q&m=kvsIBXKe62TChM5mYI-iXv2Qwd2YwrXeVE2HFlMXUzY&s=YagCM8dZ_gDvqjiw-McJbrsUfV_Xl0PCFzk6YHa8q6w&e=>
>>>>>
>>>>>                         Series Editor, /Explorations in Indic
>>>>>                         Traditions: Theological, Ethical, and
>>>>>                         Philosophical/
>>>>>                         Lexington Books
>>>>>
>>>>>                         Consulting Editor, Sutra Journal
>>>>>                         http://www.sutrajournal.com
>>>>>                         <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.sutrajournal.com_&d=CwMFaQ&c=8hUWFZcy2Z-Za5rBPlktOQ&r=yKOAMu7Fm_W5kv9CXfjbmb6aWTY6BVQCYZ5TKkB486Q&m=kvsIBXKe62TChM5mYI-iXv2Qwd2YwrXeVE2HFlMXUzY&s=ExcaZS6eGdslahK3iDsKt1PiYGcdIz8vfw5hWVR_skM&e=>
>>>>>
>>>>>                         "One who makes a habit of prayer and
>>>>>                         meditation will easily overcome all
>>>>>                         difficulties and remain calm and unruffled
>>>>>                         in the midst of the trials of life."
>>>>>                          (Holy Mother Sarada Devi)
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>                         On Friday, July 15, 2016 9:17 AM, Jonathan
>>>>>                         Silk <kauzeya at gmail.com
>>>>>                         <mailto:kauzeya at gmail.com>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>                         Maybe indeed I'm missing something but the
>>>>>                         Asian Extended keyboard (made, if I am not
>>>>>                         wrong, by Nobumi Iyanaga) works perfectly
>>>>>                         for diacritics, no mess, no fuss.
>>>>>
>>>>>                         Jonathan
>>>>>
>>>>>                         On Fri, Jul 15, 2016 at 2:47 PM, Madhav
>>>>>                         Deshpande <mmdesh at umich.edu
>>>>>                         <mailto:mmdesh at umich.edu>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>                             David,
>>>>>
>>>>>                                The old Easy Unicode
>>>>>                             keyboard-layout does work on my Mac
>>>>>                             that has the latest operating system
>>>>>                             and the latest MS Office 360. Try
>>>>>                             reinstalling the keyboard file, if you
>>>>>                             have it.  If not, I can send it to
>>>>>                             you.  Best,
>>>>>
>>>>>                             Madhav
>>>>>
>>>>>                             On Fri, Jul 15, 2016 at 8:44 AM, David
>>>>>                             Mellins <dmellins at gmail.com
>>>>>                             <mailto:dmellins at gmail.com>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>                                 Yes, This is true, but have you
>>>>>                                 found a convenient way to enter
>>>>>                                 the full range  of diacritica for
>>>>>                                 Romanized Sanskrit without having
>>>>>                                 to resort to Emoji/Latin/favorites
>>>>>                                 inserts?
>>>>>
>>>>>                                 This is not the worst thing in the
>>>>>                                 world, but slower than the old
>>>>>                                 Easy Unicode or Dev Unicode keyboards.
>>>>>
>>>>>                                 David
>>>>>
>>>>>                                 Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>
>>>>>                                 On Jul 15, 2016, at 8:37 AM,
>>>>>                                 Dominik Wujastyk
>>>>>                                 <wujastyk at gmail.com
>>>>>                                 <mailto:wujastyk at gmail.com>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>                                 I'm shocked.  I don't pay much
>>>>>>                                 attention to the Mac world, but
>>>>>>                                 I've been typing Devanagari into
>>>>>>                                 everything on my computer for
>>>>>>                                 many years (Linux).  I had no
>>>>>>                                 idea that this wasn't possible or
>>>>>>                                 easy on a Mac.  Wow. And the Mac
>>>>>>                                 used to be the byword for
>>>>>>                                 multilingual support.  I'm glad
>>>>>>                                 it's okay now, at least.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>                                 Dominik
>>>>>>
>>>>>>                                 --
>>>>>>                                 Professor Dominik Wujastyk*
>>>>>>                                 <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__ualberta.academia.edu_DominikWujastyk&d=CwMFaQ&c=8hUWFZcy2Z-Za5rBPlktOQ&r=yKOAMu7Fm_W5kv9CXfjbmb6aWTY6BVQCYZ5TKkB486Q&m=kvsIBXKe62TChM5mYI-iXv2Qwd2YwrXeVE2HFlMXUzY&s=VkNDEhP-cwLPNOBCeZSJaRJkykHSANxTBIK7Ds7uPU0&e=>
>>>>>>                                 Singhmar Chair in Classical
>>>>>>                                 Indian Society and Polity
>>>>>>                                 Department of History and
>>>>>>                                 Classics
>>>>>>                                 <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__historyandclassics.ualberta.ca_&d=CwMFaQ&c=8hUWFZcy2Z-Za5rBPlktOQ&r=yKOAMu7Fm_W5kv9CXfjbmb6aWTY6BVQCYZ5TKkB486Q&m=kvsIBXKe62TChM5mYI-iXv2Qwd2YwrXeVE2HFlMXUzY&s=ECM3aha2fPQPORQYguSb31JPV9N_iTAfe03-e9bVV_s&e=>
>>>>>>                                 University of Alberta, Canada
>>>>>>
>>>>>>                                 <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__mail.google.com_mail_u_0_goog-5F1525257691&d=CwMFaQ&c=8hUWFZcy2Z-Za5rBPlktOQ&r=yKOAMu7Fm_W5kv9CXfjbmb6aWTY6BVQCYZ5TKkB486Q&m=kvsIBXKe62TChM5mYI-iXv2Qwd2YwrXeVE2HFlMXUzY&s=03wVF-ckGU1T4gINV4DreQ6wodOnraImUwHWDzfg-mc&e=>
>>>>>>                                 ​sas.ualberta.ca​
>>>>>>                                 <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__sas.ualberta.ca_&d=CwMFaQ&c=8hUWFZcy2Z-Za5rBPlktOQ&r=yKOAMu7Fm_W5kv9CXfjbmb6aWTY6BVQCYZ5TKkB486Q&m=kvsIBXKe62TChM5mYI-iXv2Qwd2YwrXeVE2HFlMXUzY&s=TdfHd8QUDldFuWNngOLieZB3FyRQe5gBNLgSjDvM1tk&e=>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>                                 On 15 July 2016 at 12:58, Madhav
>>>>>>                                 Deshpande <mmdesh at umich.edu
>>>>>>                                 <mailto:mmdesh at umich.edu>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>                                     Dear Indologists,
>>>>>>
>>>>>>                                        To my happy surprise, I
>>>>>>                                     found that with the
>>>>>>                                     combination of the latest
>>>>>>                                     version of Microsoft Office
>>>>>>                                     360 for Mac and the latest
>>>>>>                                     Mac Operating System OS X El
>>>>>>                                     Capitan, it is now possible
>>>>>>                                     to directly enter Unicode
>>>>>>                                     Devanagari in a Word document
>>>>>>                                     with the Devanagari - QWERTY
>>>>>>                                     keyboard layout. Previously,
>>>>>>                                     I had to enter Unicode
>>>>>>                                     Devanagari in something like
>>>>>>                                     TextEdit and then copy and
>>>>>>                                     paste into a Word document,
>>>>>>                                     but was not able to edit it
>>>>>>                                     in the Word document.  The
>>>>>>                                     new development of software
>>>>>>                                     has happily changed that
>>>>>>                                     situation. Hope this
>>>>>>                                     information will be of use to
>>>>>>                                     some of you.  Best,
>>>>>>
>>>>>>                                     Madhav Deshpande
>>>>>>
>>>>>>                                     _______________________________________________
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>>>>>>                                     indology-owner at list.indology.info
>>>>>>                                     <mailto:indology-owner at list.indology.info>
>>>>>>                                     (messages to the list's
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>>>>>>                                     <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__listinfo.indology.info_&d=CwMFaQ&c=8hUWFZcy2Z-Za5rBPlktOQ&r=yKOAMu7Fm_W5kv9CXfjbmb6aWTY6BVQCYZ5TKkB486Q&m=kvsIBXKe62TChM5mYI-iXv2Qwd2YwrXeVE2HFlMXUzY&s=jlv1re0QfTE0sr7J-CvAm-rbzoie1Dv8KvNmEQ7oPk4&e=>
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>>>>>>                                 _______________________________________________
>>>>>>                                 INDOLOGY mailing list
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>>>>>>                                 (messages to the list's managing
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>>>>>>                                 <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__listinfo.indology.info_&d=CwMFaQ&c=8hUWFZcy2Z-Za5rBPlktOQ&r=yKOAMu7Fm_W5kv9CXfjbmb6aWTY6BVQCYZ5TKkB486Q&m=kvsIBXKe62TChM5mYI-iXv2Qwd2YwrXeVE2HFlMXUzY&s=jlv1re0QfTE0sr7J-CvAm-rbzoie1Dv8KvNmEQ7oPk4&e=>
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>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
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>>>>>
>>>>>                         -- 
>>>>>                         J. Silk
>>>>>                         Leiden University
>>>>>                         Leiden University Institute for Area
>>>>>                         Studies, LIAS
>>>>>                         Matthias de Vrieshof 3, Room 0.05b
>>>>>                         2311 BZ Leiden
>>>>>                         The Netherlands
>>>>>
>>>>>                         copies of my publications may be found at
>>>>>                         http://www.buddhismandsocialjustice.com/silk_publications.html
>>>>>                         <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.buddhismandsocialjustice.com_silk-5Fpublications.html&d=CwMFaQ&c=8hUWFZcy2Z-Za5rBPlktOQ&r=yKOAMu7Fm_W5kv9CXfjbmb6aWTY6BVQCYZ5TKkB486Q&m=kvsIBXKe62TChM5mYI-iXv2Qwd2YwrXeVE2HFlMXUzY&s=nC9F48SxawJChKKQgOfcJ3kmyyvm3FjYx9D51jdmEa4&e=>
>>>>>
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