[INDOLOGY] Article about the politics surrounding indology at the IHRC

Sat Jun 20 09:48:35 UTC 2015

Maybe read the book... 
To comment on the basis of a "blurb" or to stress on details or anecdotes taken from the historiographical parts is not the best (/ fairest) manner to present this epistemological work, written by a very serious archaeologist (specialist of the Neolithic period, like Renfrew). His main point is precisely the problem of circularity of the arguments (linguistic + archaeological + genetics) which can be used for hypothesis (or "scenarios") as numerous/different as there are specialists imagining/reconstructing the proto-history beyond the (linguistic / archaeological / genetic) facts. 
What is  the "entire field" you talk about, what is the "theory informing the field" ? If it is the idea/postulate of a single proto-language "mother" and its sub- proto-languages "daughters" and the subsequent idea of one "proto-people" "father" and its sub- proto-peoples "sons", this is, I think, a very mythical idea which pollutes the scientific explanation of the complex Eurasian prehistory, which one deserves an interdisciplinary approach without such a priori. As I have methodologically argued elsewhere (with the Indo-European and Semitic linguist Guy Jucquois, within a monograph... of the Journal of Indo-European Studies [1997]), referring to Meillet (i-e * forms are not prototypes, viz. items belonging to some mother-tongue, but the sum of the observed correspondances - metatypes one could say), Trubetzkoy (why beyond the observable antique dialectal diversity should it be postulated the simplicity/unity, etc.) and Pisani inter alios, the Indo-European (like other) comparative linguistics does not need of an "ultimate" oversimple explanation for working. To mistake on the nature of its results is detrimental to the whole field of Indo-European comparativism. 
The AITheory is the result of  an illusion (and the OITheory an ideological reaction thereagainst - note that an early version of the latter can already be found in André de Paniagua, Les temps héroïques : étude préhistorique d'après les origines indo-européennes, Paris : E. Leroux, 1901: https://archive.org/details/lestempshroques00panigoog - nihil novi sub sole).
Best wishes,

Le 20 juin 2015 à 03:36, Hock, Hans Henrich <hhhock at illinois.edu> a écrit :

> To judge from the blurb of the book, this is one of those facile attempts to attack an entire field without offering any theory worth its salt that could take the place of theory informing the field. And again, like many such attempts it erases all kinds of “pesky details”, including the fact that August Wilhelm Pott, who made major contributions to the development of Indo-European comparative phonology, also wrote a detailed rebuttal to Gobineau’s racist mythology of Aryan superiority. (Poliakov didn’t get that right either.) 
> 
> The people who sinned most in turning Indo-European linguistics into a foil for racist claims of Aryan superiority were not linguists but cultural-studies intellectuals, including Gobineau and Chamberlain, and it is these people that Hitler considered his intellectual ancestors. It is interesting to note that Uriel Weinreich, in his (deservedly) angry Hitler’s professors, cites Eduard Hermann as complaining that German Indo-Europeanists failed to take advantage of the great opportunities that Nazism (supposedly) provided them.
> 
> ‘nuff said.
> 
> Hans Henrich Hock
> 
> 
> 
> On 18 Jun 2015, at 02:57, Christophe Vielle <christophe.vielle at UCLOUVAIN.BE> wrote:
> 
>> On this mythological topic, probably much more (methodologically) relevant is the book by Jean-Paul DEMOULE, Mais où sont passés les Indo-Européens ? Le mythe d’origine de l’Occident, Paris, Éditions du Seuil, 2014, 739 pp.
>> 
>> Le 18 juin 2015 à 09:21, Philipp Maas <philipp.a.maas at gmail.com> a écrit :
>> 
>>> Those interested in the topiv of the IE-Homeland may find the Article “The Indo-European Homeland fromLinguistic and Archaeological Perspectives“ by David W. Anthony and Don Ringe relevant.
>>> 
>>>  
>>> Abstract: “Archaeological evidence and linguistic evidence converge in support of an origin of Indo-European languages on the Pontic-Caspian steppes around 4,000 years BCE. The evidence is so strong that arguments in support of other hypotheses should be reexamined".
>>> 
>>>  
>>> With kind regards,
>>> 
>>>  
>>> Philipp Maas
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 2015-06-18 4:42 GMT+02:00 Veeranarayana Pandurangi <veerankp at gmail.com>:
>>> Thanks recognizing it and links for new paper.
>>> We are open for it
>>> 
>>> On Jun 17, 2015 4:14 AM, "Luis Gonzalez-Reimann" <reimann at berkeley.edu> wrote:
>>> Dear all,
>>> 
>>> As part of this thread, the clear differences between the IVC and the culture of the Rg Veda have been briefly mentioned. Veeranarayana Pandurangi brought up another issue, the genetic evidence regarding the entrance of peoples into India during the Rgvedic period. He attached an article (Metspalu et al.) which, he said, "disproves the influx of people into India."
>>> 
>>> In a new article called "Population Genomics of Bronze Age Eurasia (Allentoft et al.)," published in Nature only five day ago, the authors conclude that their "analyses support that migrations during the Early Bronze Age is a probable scenario for the spread of Indo-European languages." This goes in the opposite direction of the article by Metspalu et al., and gives strong genetic support to the notion of an influx into the Sub Continent between 3000-1000 BCE.  The authors of the new article used a very large data set for their study.
>>> 
>>> Here is the abstract.
>>> The Bronze Age of Eurasia (around 3000–1000 BC) was a period of major cultural changes. However, there is debate about whether these changes resulted from the circulation of ideas or from human migrations, potentially also facilitating the spread of languages and certain phenotypic traits. We investigated this by using new, improved methods to sequence low-coverage genomes from 101 ancient humans from across Eurasia. We show that the Bronze Age was a highly dynamic period involving large-scale population migrations and replacements, responsible for shaping major parts of present-day demographic structure in both Europe and Asia. Our findings are consistent with the hypothesized spread of Indo-European languages during the Early Bronze Age. We also demonstrate that light skin pigmentation in Europeans was already present at high frequency in the Bronze Age, but not lactose tolerance, indicating a more recent onset of positive selection on lactose tolerance than previously thought. 
>>> 
>>> And this is the link to the article:
>>> 
>>> http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v522/n7555/pdf/nature14507.pdf
>>> 
>>> Luis Gonzalez-Reimann
>>> 
>>> 
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>>> 
>>> -- 
>>> Dr. Philipp A. Maas
>>> Universitätsassistent
>>> Institut für Südasien-, Tibet- und Buddhismuskunde
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>> 
>> –––––––––––––––––––
>> Christophe Vielle
>> Louvain-la-Neuve
>> 
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> 

–––––––––––––––––––
Christophe Vielle
Louvain-la-Neuve

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