[INDOLOGY] Vedic verse in Ortega y Gasset

Wed Jan 28 14:56:12 UTC 2015

About Vedic translation.  Are the following outdated or are they still
considered accurate:
MacDonell's Vedic Reader for Students
Keith's Taittiriya Samhita
Whitney's Atharva Veda Samhita

Thanks,
Harry Spier

On Tue, Jan 27, 2015 at 2:50 PM, George Thompson <gthomgt at gmail.com> wrote:

> Regarding the gayatri mantra, here is an interesting old story:
>
> My wife when she was a young girl spent many summer days visiting her
> cousins in a town in upstate New York [called Nyack].  The house that they
> lived in back then used to belong to a fellow who called himself "Oom the
> Omnipotent."  He was also known as Pierre Bernard.  He was a very popular
> yogi in New York in the early 20th century, attracting lots of wealthy
> ladies, especially young ones.  He was also the uncle of Theos Bernard,
> also a popular scholar of yoga.  A book was written a few years ago about
> Oom, or Pierre, and his scandalous life.  I have it somewhere but I can not
> find it.  For those who are curious to learn more about him, there is an
> article in Wikipedia.
>
> These cousins knew about Oom's reputation and they knew that there was a
> Sanskrit inscription carved into a wooden beam somewhere in their house.
> When they learned, 40 years ago, that I was a student of Sanskrit, they
> painstakingly copied the devanagari text and
> mailed it to me.
>
> It started: tat savitur varenyam ... etc.
>
> Best wishes,
>
> George
>
> On Tue, Jan 27, 2015 at 10:50 AM, George Thompson <gthomgt at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Please read my note not as 'dhiyoh' but as ,dhiyah.'
>>
>> On Tue, Jan 27, 2015 at 4:22 AM, George Thompson <gthomgt at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Dear Michael,
>>>
>>> Of course, you are right [as are Jamison and Brereton] that dhimasi in
>>> the gayatri mantra is derived from the root dhaa-, but the following word
>>> in this mantra is "dhiyoh."
>>>
>>> This suggests to me that the author of RV 3.62.10 was engaged in some
>>> kind of word-play, or a wrong etymology.  In any case, it has been a
>>> memorable move.
>>>
>>> On Mon, Jan 26, 2015 at 9:57 PM, Michael Witzel <witzel at fas.harvard.edu>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Regarding the correct translation of the Gāyatrī, RV 3.62.10, see:
>>>>
>>>> *(*1) *Witzel-Gotō, Vd*WR*, Dec. 2013 (sent to publisher already in
>>>> the Summer of 2009 !):
>>>>
>>>> "Dieses, des Gottes Savitar,
>>>> wünschenswerte Licht möchten wir (in uns) setzen,
>>>> der unsere Eingebungen antreiben soll."
>>>>
>>>> = "We wish to put (into us) this desirable light of God Savitar, who
>>>> shall instigate our insights."
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> (2) *Jamison-Brereton,* OUP,  (April 2014):
>>>>
>>>> "Might we make our own that desirable effulgence of god Savitar, who
>>>> will rouse forth our insights."
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Both recent translations take *dhīmah*i as Optative, as K. Hoffnann
>>>> has indicated in his *Injunktiv *long ago (1967)*:* *dhīmahi*
>>>> is definitely not, as usually translated so far and also just now on this
>>>> list, to be taken from *dhī* "think deeply"; later: "meditate"…
>>>>
>>>> The subjunctive *pracodayāt* allows both translations:  "will /
>>>> shall".  The choice is up to interpretation.
>>>>
>>>> * VdWR; = Verlag de Weltreligionen, Frankfurt/Berlin: *Der Rig-Veda*,
>>>> 1st vol 2007, 2nd vol. 2013; two more vols. to follow in due course; vols.
>>>> Include detailed notes/commentary.
>>>>
>>>> Cheers,
>>>> Michael
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Jan 26, 2015, at 3:08 PM, Patrick Olivelle wrote:
>>>>
>>>> The latest and great translation by Joel Brereton and Stephanie Jamison
>>>> translates: "Might we make our own that desirable effulgence of god
>>>> Savitar, who will rouse forth our insights."
>>>>
>>>> Patrick Olivelle
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Jan 26, 2015, at 1:45 PM, George Hart <glhart at berkeley.edu> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> It seems to me that the relative in the third line must make this one
>>>> sentence, but I am not a Vedicist.  More interesting would be to know why
>>>> the Gāyatrī became so important and omnipresent.  (One might also remark
>>>> that it is emended to refer to Ganesha and other deities in almost every
>>>> puja).  It’s rather nice, but there are many other Vedic verses that are
>>>> just as nice.  What set this apart?  And why?  George
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Jan 26, 2015, at 11:38 AM, Nagaraj Paturi <nagarajpaturi at gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Prof. Dipak Bhattacharya's response was :
>>>>
>>>> A distant reflection of RV 3.62.10 : 'I meditate upon that adorable
>>>> brilliance of the Begetter who may inspire our thoughts' ?
>>>>
>>>> The lines quoted were :
>>>>
>>>> *Lord, awaken us in a happy ** mood, and give us knowledge!*
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> The Savitri/Gayatri mantra (excluding PraNava and vyAhritis) is :
>>>>
>>>> *tát savitúr váreṇ(i)yaṃ**bhárgo devásya dhīmahi**dhíyo yó naḥ
>>>> prachodáyāt *
>>>>
>>>> Prof. Dipak's translation takes this as a single complex sentence with
>>>> a relative clause. The quoted lines have two different sentences. Taking
>>>> Savitri/Gayatri mantra as made up of two different sentences is found in
>>>> Ralph T H Griffith.
>>>>
>>>> I contributed the analysis of various meanings given to Gayatri mantra
>>>> in the page http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gayatri_Mantra. There, I
>>>> showed that taking the mantra as sAyaNa's  approach and taking it as two
>>>> different sentences as Griffith's approach.
>>>>
>>>> I tabulated the analysis as follows :
>>>>
>>>> *author**year**paraphrase**note*Sir William Jones
>>>> <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Jones_(philologist)>1807"Let us
>>>> adore the supremacy of that divine sun, the god-head who illuminates all,
>>>> who recreates all, from whom all proceed, to whom all must return, whom we
>>>> invoke to direct our understandings aright in our progress toward his holy
>>>> seat."[14] <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gayatri_Mantra#cite_note-14>Savita
>>>> is taken as the Sun, Like Sayana <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sayana>
>>>> the whole mantra is taken as one single sentence with a relative clause
>>>> <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Relative_clause>.William Quan Judge
>>>> <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Quan_Judge>1893"Unveil, O Thou
>>>> who givest sustenance to the Universe, from whom all proceed, to whom all
>>>> must return, that face of the True Sun now hidden by a vase of golden
>>>> light, that we may see the truth and do our whole duty on our journey to
>>>> thy sacred seat."[15]
>>>> <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gayatri_Mantra#cite_note-15>Sir William
>>>> Jones <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sir_William_Jones> is followedSivanath
>>>> Sastri (Brahmo Samaj <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brahmo_Samaj>)1911"We
>>>> meditate on the worshipable power and glory of Him who has created the
>>>> earth, the nether world and the heavens (i.e. the universe), and who
>>>> directs our understanding."[16]
>>>> <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gayatri_Mantra#cite_note-16>Bhur Bhuvuh
>>>> Svah is taken as part of the Mantra, Like Sayana
>>>> <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sayana> the whole mantra is taken as one
>>>> single sentence with a relative clause
>>>> <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Relative_clause>.Swami Vivekananda
>>>> <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swami_Vivekananda>1915"We meditate on
>>>> the glory of that Being who has produced this universe; may He enlighten
>>>> our minds."[17]
>>>> <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gayatri_Mantra#cite_note-Vivekananda-17>Like
>>>> Griffith, takes the mantra as made up of two different sentences unlike
>>>> Sayana <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sayana> or Sir William Jones
>>>> <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sir_William_Jones>S. Radhakrishnan
>>>> <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S._Radhakrishnan>1947, 1953
>>>>
>>>>    1. " We meditate on the effulgent glory of the divine Light; may he
>>>>    inspire our understanding."[18]
>>>>    <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gayatri_Mantra#cite_note-Radhakrishnan_1947-18>
>>>>    2. "We meditate on the adorable glory of the radiant sun; may he
>>>>    inspire our intelligence."[19]
>>>>    <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gayatri_Mantra#cite_note-19>
>>>>
>>>> Like Griffith, takes the mantra as made up of two different sentences
>>>> unlike Sayana <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sayana> or Sir William
>>>> Jones <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sir_William_Jones>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Prof.Nagaraj Paturi
>>>> Hyderabad-500044
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>>>>
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>>>>
>>>> ============
>>>>
>>>> Michael Witzel
>>>> witzel at fas.harvard.edu
>>>> <www.fas.harvard.edu/~witzel/mwpage.htm>
>>>> Wales Prof. of Sanskrit,
>>>> Dept. of South Asian Studies, Harvard University
>>>> 1 Bow Street,
>>>> Cambridge MA 02138, USA
>>>>
>>>> phone: 1- 617 - 495 3295, fax 617 - 496 8571;
>>>> direct line:  617- 496 2990
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
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>>>
>>>
>>
>
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