[INDOLOGY] INDOLOGY Digest, Vol 31, Issue 13

Thu Aug 13 16:39:55 UTC 2015

Hello Will, 
I don't know what the Vedic studies folks think of this, but it seems that the source texts for Vedanta are the source texts- Prasthana trayi along with a number of other assorted texts including some regional texts also. Vedas are an original source, but they are not source texts. They are only referred when it was necessary to highlight original concepts, which was not very frequent. Nalayira divya prabandham is also original text. The original texts and source texts may have been used by later theologians without much concern for classifications.
Thank you, 
Lavanya

Sent from my iPhone

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> Today's Topics:
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>   1. Re: Texts and bodily metaphors (Will Sweetman)
>   2. New Book (Patrick Olivelle)
>   3. Re: New Book (David and Nancy Reigle)
>   4. Re: [RISA-L LIST] New Book (Benjamin Fleming)
> 
> 
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
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> Message: 1
> Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2015 11:49:04 +1200
> From: Will Sweetman <will.sweetman at gmail.com>
> To: Christophe Vielle <christophe.vielle at uclouvain.be>,    Indology
>    <indology at list.indology.info>
> Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] Texts and bodily metaphors
> Message-ID:
>    <CAMw=p+ty7U07E3xLn0K=tNK+9Xkick48pxNywius18obmyhA-Q at mail.gmail.com>
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> 
> Thanks, all, for your comments.
> 
> Christophe ? I think Fenicio mentions the term Veda only in relation to a
> Vedic mantra recited while consuming panchagavya (I think - I have only my
> notes on Charpentier's edition (does anyone have a pdf?), which in any case
> according to Paolo Aranha omits a large part of the original ms). But Ludo
> Rocher argues (*Puranas*, 1986: 11) that Fenicio's primary sources were
> puranic, and that this is even made explicit in the title of a Latin
> translation of Fenicio: *Collectio omnium dogmatum & arcanorum ex Puranis
> seu libris Canonicis paganorum Indianorum*...
> 
> Part of my argument in the article I'm preparing is that despite many
> references to the Vedas as the most authoritative Indian sacred texts,
> other texts were almost invariably the actual source. Azevedo, for
> instance, having mentioned the Vedas as the original texts then goes on to
> cite exclusively Tamil sources (*Tirumantiram*, *Tiruv?cakam*, *Tiv?karam*,
> *Tirukku?a?* and another Tamil text on caste).
> 
> Thanks also for the references to the texts acquired by the Jesuits (stolen
> on their behalf by a convert, it appears) in the 1550s. On the basis of
> fragments of translations of these done by the convert (a Brahmin baptised
> as Manuel Olivera) which were sent to Europe and are extant in Portugal and
> Goa, Ines Zupanov and Angela Barreto Xavier have identified these as
> J??ne?vara?s Marathi version of Bhagavad-G?t?, a purana by N?mdev, and
> parts of the Mah?bh?rata.  Also in Portugal are three manuscripts
> containing parts of the Mah?bh?rata and R?may??a in Konkani prose and
> Marathi verse, transliterated into Roman script by Jesuits around the same
> period. I think there is likely some connection here, but I'm not aware of
> anyone who's explored it.
> 
> Best wishes
> 
> Will
> 
> 
> On 12 August 2015 at 20:25, Christophe Vielle <
> christophe.vielle at uclouvain.be> wrote:
> 
>> Thank you for this reference (with Gered?o rendering grantha).
>> 
>> So (I have not here the book at hand), nothing on the Vedas in J.
>> Fenicio's work (1609? He arrived in India in 1584) ? (cf. *The Livro da
>> Seita dos Indios Orientais (Brit. Mus. MS. Sloane 1820) of Father Jacobo
>> Fenicio , s.j.*, edited with and introduction and notes by Jarl
>> Charpentier, Uppsala : Almqvist & Wiksells, 1933, Arbeten utgivna med
>> undest?d av Vilhelm Ekmans Universitetsfond 40).
>> 
>> Note that the (Bhagavad-)G?t? (with the Avadh?ta-G?t?) is already
>> presented and discussed as the most sacred book of the brahmins in a Jesuit
>> letter of 1560.
>> See https://books.google.be/books?id=qP87AAAAcAAJ
>> pp. 376 sq. ("Guitaa & Detatriaa") (cf. Charpentier p. xliv)
>> 
>> Best wishes,
>> 
>> Christophe Vielle
>> 
>> Le 11 ao?t 2015 ? 02:03, Will Sweetman <will.sweetman at GMAIL.COM> a ?crit :
>> 
>> Dear all
>> 
>> I'm working on some early European accounts of the Vedas including what I
>> think is the very first reference to the Vedas in a European text. This was
>> published in Couto's *Da Asia,* but is in fact taken from another work
>> written by an Augustinian friar Agostinho de Azevedo in 1603. Azevedo (in
>> my translation) says that the Brahmins:
>> 
>> "have many books in their Latin, which they call Gered?o which contain
>> everything they are to believe, and all the ceremonies they are to perform.
>> These books are divided into bodies [corpos], limbs [membros] and joints
>> [articulos], whose originals are those they call Veados, which are divided
>> into four parts, and these further into fifty-two parts in the following
>> manner: six which they call Xastra, which are the bodies, eighteen which
>> they call Purana, which are the limbs, twenty-eight called Agamon which are
>> the joints."
>> 
>> This formulation, with variations, is repeated in many subsequent European
>> sources. The terms for the divisions (corpos,membros, articulos), which are
>> not so often repeated, have usually been translated more literally as
>> bodies, members and articles (or articulations).
>> 
>> I'm curious as to whether anyone is aware of an Indian source which uses
>> these metaphors. I'm aware, of course of the Ved??gas, but I think the six
>> here are clearly meant to be the ??stras/dar?anas. This may indicate some
>> muddling?or sheer invention?on Azevedo's part, but in other instances I've
>> found it best to look first for an Indian source or idea an early European
>> writer may be following rather than immediately assuming error or
>> invention, so I'd welcome any leads and/or comments on translating membros
>> as limbs and articulos as joints. "Articles" for the latter seems to me to
>> be a particularly unilluminating translation.
>> 
>> Best
>> 
>> Will
>> 
>> 
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>> ???????????????????
>> Christophe Vielle <http://www.uclouvain.be/christophe.vielle>
>> Louvain-la-Neuve
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