From eastwestcultural at yahoo.com Sat Aug 1 01:31:53 2015 From: eastwestcultural at yahoo.com (Dean Michael Anderson) Date: Sat, 01 Aug 15 01:31:53 +0000 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Tagore, Aurobindo, and Malhotra In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <1157559382.6171715.1438392713761.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> I thought I was done with this thread but I realized I should clarify that when I mentioned Malhotra's valid criticisms I was referring, in general, to some of his social and historical comments, not his remarks about things like Indological methodology, which seem to be generally misguided. Best, Dean -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From asko.parpola at helsinki.fi Sat Aug 1 03:22:32 2015 From: asko.parpola at helsinki.fi (asko.parpola at helsinki.fi) Date: Sat, 01 Aug 15 06:22:32 +0300 Subject: [INDOLOGY] New publication: The Roots of Hinduism Message-ID: <20150801062232.Horde.KbhMs9NLlhYiQsdhtaWdlg2@webmail.helsinki.fi> Dear Colleagues, Summarizing the principal results of my research on two separate but converging fields during the past five decades, I have put together the following book, officially released in the US on the 12th of August and in the UK on the 1st of September, but already available from the publisher: Parpola, Asko. 2015. The Roots of Hinduism: The Early Aryans and the Indus Civilization. New York: Oxford University Press. xvi, 363 pp., 190 ill. Hb 99 USD, ISBN 978-0-19-022 690-9. Pb 35 USD ISBN 978-0-19-022 692-3. Also available as an e-book. For more information, see https://global.oup.com/academic/product/the-roots-of-hinduism-9780190226909?cc=fi&lang=en&# http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0190226927/sr=1-1/qid=1433443155/ref=olp_product_details?ie=UTF8&me=&qid=1433443155&sr=1-1 With best regards, Asko Parpola Professor Emeritus of Indology University of Helsinki, Finland From dimitrov at staff.uni-marburg.de Sat Aug 1 09:07:29 2015 From: dimitrov at staff.uni-marburg.de (Dragomir Dimitrov) Date: Sat, 01 Aug 15 11:07:29 +0200 Subject: =?utf-8?Q?[INDOLOGY]_Dr._Albrecht_Hanisch_(1963=E2=80=932015)?= Message-ID: <55BC8C51.21470.1704BF70@dimitrov.staff.uni-marburg.de> Dear colleagues, It is my painful duty to convey to you the sad news of the death of our fellow student and former colleague Dr. Albrecht Hanisch. After a prolonged illness, at the age of 51, he passed away peacefully on July 26, 2015 in Bad Harzburg, Germany. Albrecht studied in Marburg theology, indology, and tibetology. In 2000 he earned his doctorate under Professor Michael Hahn (1941?2014) with a work on ?rya??ra's J?takam?l?. From 2007 until 2014 he worked as a local representative of the Nepalese-German Manuscript Cataloguing Project and an acting director of the Nepal Research Centre in Kathmandu, Nepal. His friends and colleagues will miss him. A memorial service will take place on August 15, 2015 at 4 p.m. in Bad Harzburg. Relatives, friends, and colleagues are cordially invited to attend. Condolences may be sent to Albrecht's wife Anna Hanisch (annakbhanisch at googlemail.com). Kind regards, Dragomir Dimitrov ________________________________________ Dr. habil. Dragomir Dimitrov Indologie und Tibetologie Philipps-Universit?t Marburg Deutschhausstr. 12 D-35032 Marburg Germany Tel.: +49 6421 28 24640, +49 178 9190340 E-mail: dimitrov at staff.uni-marburg.de http://www.uni-marburg.de/indologie ________________________________________ From m.gluckman at anu.edu.au Sat Aug 1 15:48:32 2015 From: m.gluckman at anu.edu.au (Martin Gluckman) Date: Sat, 01 Aug 15 21:18:32 +0530 Subject: =?utf-8?Q?[INDOLOGY]_Chanting_of_the_A=E1=B9=A3=E1=B9=AD=C4=81dhy=C4=81y=C4=AB?= Message-ID: Dear Friends, I am looking for a clear recording of the chanting of the A???dhy?y? with correct pronunciation and intonation that could be used online. Sufficient silence should be there between each s?tra to split the file accordingly (if it is not already split by s?tra). If anyone has such a recording that could be used or knows where it could be found I would be most grateful. With Warmest Wishes, Martin Gluckman -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lavanyavemsani at gmail.com Sat Aug 1 16:24:58 2015 From: lavanyavemsani at gmail.com (Lavanya Vemsani) Date: Sat, 01 Aug 15 12:24:58 -0400 Subject: [INDOLOGY] INDOLOGY Digest, Vol 31, Issue 1 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Dr. Parpola Congratulations on the publication of this book. A much needed publication in this area! Thank you, Lavanya On Sat, Aug 1, 2015 at 12:00 PM, wrote: > Send INDOLOGY mailing list submissions to > indology at list.indology.info > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > > http://list.indology.info/mailman/listinfo/indology_list.indology.info > > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > indology-request at list.indology.info > > You can reach the person managing the list at > indology-owner at list.indology.info > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of INDOLOGY digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Tagore, Aurobindo, and Malhotra (Nagaraj Paturi) > 2. Re: Tagore, Aurobindo, and Malhotra (Dean Michael Anderson) > 3. New publication: The Roots of Hinduism (asko.parpola at helsinki.fi) > 4. Dr. Albrecht Hanisch (1963?2015) (Dragomir Dimitrov) > 5. Chanting of the A???dhy?y? (Martin Gluckman) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Fri, 31 Jul 2015 23:57:27 +0530 > From: Nagaraj Paturi > To: Indology > Subject: [INDOLOGY] Tagore, Aurobindo, and Malhotra > Message-ID: > Nrm-6b88Q at mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > My participation in this thread was in response to what was already > > If there was any branching out that was happening, from the original theme > of Malhotra and his alleged plagiarism into general and broader issues of > decolonization and reversed gaze and so on, it already happened at the > beginning of the thread itself. Then response to that was also covering a > broader theme of Indology, its nature, its reception among contemporary > Indians, agreeing or not agreeing to use the method of Indology etc. > > I participated at that stage and limited my response only to the these > general and broad issues. > > My response has no potential to or no objective of defending any plagiarism > if committed by any person anywhere. > > For that matter, my posts as part of the threads that originated in the > issue of Malhotra and his alleged plagiarism have no potential to or no > objective of defending any plagiarism if committed by any person anywhere > > > -- > Prof.Nagaraj Paturi > Hyderabad-500044 > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From nagarajpaturi at gmail.com Sat Aug 1 18:50:43 2015 From: nagarajpaturi at gmail.com (Nagaraj Paturi) Date: Sun, 02 Aug 15 00:20:43 +0530 Subject: =?utf-8?Q?[INDOLOGY]_Chanting_of_the_A=E1=B9=A3=E1=B9=AD=C4=81dhy=C4=81y=C4=AB?= Message-ID: I found this websites mp3 and rm files fitting your requirement http://surasa.net/music/samskrta-vani/ashtadhyayi.php There are many others too. Mostly they have the keyword sutrapatha. -- Prof.Nagaraj Paturi Hyderabad-500044 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mmdesh at umich.edu Sun Aug 2 21:11:48 2015 From: mmdesh at umich.edu (Madhav Deshpande) Date: Sun, 02 Aug 15 17:11:48 -0400 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Article on Panini in Friday Times, a Pakistani news paper Message-ID: I found an interesting popular article on Panini by Salma Mahmud, a Pakistani reporter. My late colleage Professor Ian Catford from the University of Michigan many years ago visited Chota Lahur, the old ?alatura, in the Swat Valley of Pakistan, and told me that the local farmers had heard about Panini being from their town. My other colleage from Michigan, Professor Peter Hook brought a potsherd from this place for me. So I have the pleasure of physically touching an object from the birthplace of Panini. -- Madhav M. Deshpande Professor of Sanskrit and Linguistics Department of Asian Languages and Cultures 202 South Thayer Street, Suite 6111 The University of Michigan Ann Arbor, MI 48104-1608, USA -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Mahmud-Salma-ArticleonPaniniandhisBirthplaceinFridayTimes.pdf Type: application/pdf Size: 1308455 bytes Desc: not available URL: From mmdesh at umich.edu Sun Aug 2 21:14:18 2015 From: mmdesh at umich.edu (Madhav Deshpande) Date: Sun, 02 Aug 15 17:14:18 -0400 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Article on Panini in Friday Times, a Pakistani news paper In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Please correct "colleage" in my message to "colleague". Sorry. Madhav On Sun, Aug 2, 2015 at 5:11 PM, Madhav Deshpande wrote: > I found an interesting popular article on Panini by Salma Mahmud, a > Pakistani reporter. My late colleage Professor Ian Catford from the > University of Michigan many years ago visited Chota Lahur, the old > ?alatura, in the Swat Valley of Pakistan, and told me that the local > farmers had heard about Panini being from their town. My other colleage > from Michigan, Professor Peter Hook brought a potsherd from this place for > me. So I have the pleasure of physically touching an object from the > birthplace of Panini. > > -- > Madhav M. Deshpande > Professor of Sanskrit and Linguistics > Department of Asian Languages and Cultures > 202 South Thayer Street, Suite 6111 > The University of Michigan > Ann Arbor, MI 48104-1608, USA > -- Madhav M. Deshpande Professor of Sanskrit and Linguistics Department of Asian Languages and Cultures 202 South Thayer Street, Suite 6111 The University of Michigan Ann Arbor, MI 48104-1608, USA -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mrinalkaul81 at gmail.com Mon Aug 3 04:45:00 2015 From: mrinalkaul81 at gmail.com (Mrinal Kaul) Date: Mon, 03 Aug 15 10:15:00 +0530 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Diacritical Sanskrit Problem in OS Yosemite Message-ID: Dear Friends, Just yesterday I had to reformat my Mac and I discovered that I have shifted from OS Maverick to OS Yosemite. While on Maverick I was using a Unicode keyboard option (on the right corner up there) that I had manually put in the Fonts folder (inside the System folder), however this does not seem to work with Yosemite. I do not want to use US International PC option for writing diacritics. Is there some better, easy and straightforward method to solve this problem? I would appreciate any help. Best wishes. Mrinal Kaul ******************************** Mrinal Kaul Manipal Centre for Philosophy and Humanities (MCPH) Dr. TMA Pai Planetarium Complex Alevoor Road Manipal, Udupi 576104 Karnataka, INDIA ********************************* Tel: +91-820-2923567 (O) https://manipal.academia.edu/MrinalKaul e-mail: mrinal.kaul at stx.oxon.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From chris_gibbons at me.com Mon Aug 3 05:13:27 2015 From: chris_gibbons at me.com (CHRISTOPHER GIBBONS) Date: Mon, 03 Aug 15 15:13:27 +1000 Subject: =?utf-8?Q?[INDOLOGY]_=C5=9Arautako=C5=9Ba_missing_pages?= Message-ID: <072D106A-86F3-4D8A-9A35-7B510DC2EABE@me.com> Dear List Members, The text I have sourced of RN Dandekar et al. (1958-73) ?rautako?a: Encyclopaedia of Vedic Sacrificial Ritual (volume 1) is missing the section entitled ?The duties of the hot?: the recitation of the s?midhen? verses and allied rites? at pp. 337-352. I would be very grateful if someone could provide me with a scan of the missing section. Thank you in advance, Chris Gibbons PhD Candidate School of Historical and Philosophical Inquiry Faculty of Arts The University of Queensland Email: s4297473 at student.uq.edu.au -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: DOC030815.pdf Type: application/pdf Size: 140315 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From nagarajpaturi at gmail.com Mon Aug 3 05:16:51 2015 From: nagarajpaturi at gmail.com (Nagaraj Paturi) Date: Mon, 03 Aug 15 10:46:51 +0530 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Does anyone know of Sanskrit works that use 2nd-syllable rhyming Message-ID: 1. 2nd-syllable rhyming in gOpIgItam is an inter-line rhyming which is not the one mentioned by me as found in Dravidian folklore forms such as proverbs, riddles etc. and in native Dravidian verse-meters and native Dravidian lyrical meters. Thus the inter-line second syllable rhyming in gOpIgItam can not be conclusive enough proof for a southern author's composition of Bhagavatam. 2. The inter-line second syllable rhyming in gOpIgItam doesn't seem to be comparable to the compulsory inter-line second syllable rhyming found in the Sanskrit-borrowed meters in the south (at least in Telugu) because these meters are usually the 'non-rhythmic' verse-meters such as S'ArdUlavikrIDita, whereas the meter of gOpIgItam is rhythmic verse-meter convenient for a rhythmic singing rendering. Sri Naresh Kirtiji too highlighted the song-like feature of certain verse-meters and such a feature in the verse-meters of gOpIgItam (the point highlighted by me on another list) 3. The inter-line second syllable rhyming is followed by the first sankIrtana poet-singer of Telugu Sri Annamacharyulu (15th century AD, the author of the Sanskrit book sankIrtanalakshaNa) as a strict rule throughout his compositions. Whether followed as a compulsory rule or not, it seems to be found in rhythmic songs as a beat-point indicator and enhancer of the s'abdasaundarya at the beat-points, in the sankIrtana songs in other Indian languages too. 4. Therefore the inter-line second syllable rhyming in gOpIgItam indicates its nature as a sankIrtana song composed in rhythmic verse-meters. How this identification can help in the dating and place of composition of Bhagavatam is an issue of further research. -- Prof.Nagaraj Paturi Hyderabad-500044 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mrinalkaul81 at gmail.com Mon Aug 3 05:21:27 2015 From: mrinalkaul81 at gmail.com (Mrinal Kaul) Date: Mon, 03 Aug 15 10:51:27 +0530 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Diacritical Sanskrit Problem in OS Yosemite In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Sincere thanks to Dr Tim Lubin for solving my problem. Best wishes. Mrinal ******************************** Mrinal Kaul Manipal Centre for Philosophy and Humanities (MCPH) Dr. TMA Pai Planetarium Complex Alevoor Road Manipal, Udupi 576104 Karnataka, INDIA ********************************* Tel: +91-820-2923567 (O) https://manipal.academia.edu/MrinalKaul e-mail: mrinal.kaul at stx.oxon.org On 3 August 2015 at 10:31, Lubin, Tim wrote: > I use (a customized version of) the EasyUnicode keylayout on a Mac running > Yosemite, with no problem. Are you sure that you were not putting the file > in the wrong folder. Keylayout files (which appear in that upper right > corner) should go in the keylayout folder, not the fonts folder ? whatever > keylayout you were using before should still work, if you just reinstall it > in the right place: > > Macintosh HD > Library > Keyboard Layouts > > Timothy Lubin > Professor of Religion and Adjunct Professor of Law > Washington and Lee University > Lexington, Virginia 24450 > > http://home.wlu.edu/~lubint > http://wlu.academia.edu/TimothyLubin > https://twitter.com/TimothyLubin > > ? > > From: INDOLOGY on behalf of Mrinal > Kaul > Date: Monday, August 3, 2015 at 10:15 AM > To: Indology List > Subject: [INDOLOGY] Diacritical Sanskrit Problem in OS Yosemite > > Dear Friends, > > Just yesterday I had to reformat my Mac and I discovered that I have > shifted from OS Maverick to OS Yosemite. While on Maverick I was using a > Unicode keyboard option (on the right corner up there) that I had manually > put in the Fonts folder (inside the System folder), however this does not > seem to work with Yosemite. I do not want to use US International PC option > for writing diacritics. Is there some better, easy and straightforward > method to solve this problem? I would appreciate any help. > > Best wishes. > > Mrinal Kaul > > ******************************** > Mrinal Kaul > Manipal Centre for Philosophy and Humanities (MCPH) > Dr. TMA Pai Planetarium Complex > Alevoor Road > Manipal, Udupi 576104 > Karnataka, INDIA > ********************************* > Tel: +91-820-2923567 (O) > https://manipal.academia.edu/MrinalKaul > e-mail: mrinal.kaul at stx.oxon.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mmdesh at umich.edu Mon Aug 3 11:17:40 2015 From: mmdesh at umich.edu (Madhav Deshpande) Date: Mon, 03 Aug 15 07:17:40 -0400 Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_[INDOLOGY]_=C5=9Arautako=C5=9Ba_missing_pages?= In-Reply-To: <072D106A-86F3-4D8A-9A35-7B510DC2EABE@me.com> Message-ID: Hello Chris, I have a physical copy of this volume. If you don't receive a scan of the missing pages from someone else, I can try scanning those pages for you. Madhav Deshpande On Mon, Aug 3, 2015 at 1:13 AM, CHRISTOPHER GIBBONS wrote: > Dear List Members, > > The text I have sourced of RN Dandekar et al. (1958-73) *?rautako?a: > Encyclopaedia of Vedic Sacrificial Ritual *(volume 1) is missing the > section entitled ?The duties of the hot?: the recitation of the > *s?midhen?* verses and allied rites? at pp. 337-352. > > I would be very grateful if someone could provide me with a scan of the > missing section. > > Thank you in advance, > > Chris Gibbons > PhD Candidate > School of Historical and Philosophical Inquiry > Faculty of Arts > The University of Queensland > Email: s4297473 at student.uq.edu.au > > > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing > committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or > unsubscribe) > -- Madhav M. Deshpande Professor of Sanskrit and Linguistics Department of Asian Languages and Cultures 202 South Thayer Street, Suite 6111 The University of Michigan Ann Arbor, MI 48104-1608, USA -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jemhouben at gmail.com Mon Aug 3 15:22:10 2015 From: jemhouben at gmail.com (Jan E.M. Houben) Date: Mon, 03 Aug 15 17:22:10 +0200 Subject: [INDOLOGY] corrected version: Indology and plagiarism: specify stance in order to fortify "brand name" (and conclude lengthy threads) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Dear Professor Bhattacharya, Just for the sake of keeping up the standard of the discipline (??stra?uddhyartham), would it not be useful to give more details on the publication in which your chapters were plagiarized and on the publisher where it appeared ? I do not want to force since from experience we know that revealing cases of plagiarism is not without the risk of receiving severe and angry criticism. I hope your valuable work on Mythological and ritual symbolism will see an updated second edition. Jan Houben *Jan E.M. HOUBEN* Directeur d??tudes Sources et histoire de la tradition sanskrite *?cole Pratique des Hautes ?tudes* *Sciences historiques et philologiques * 54, rue Saint-Jacques CS 20525 ? 75005 Paris johannes.houben at ephe.sorbonne.fr https://ephe-sorbonne.academia.edu/JanEMHouben www.ephe.fr On 31 July 2015 at 17:41, Dipak Bhattacharya wrote: > > > Dear Colleagues, > I may relate a similar experience with a much more low profile book by me -*-Mythological > and rirtual symbolism* 1984 Calcutta. The fourth and fifth chapters (194 > - 208) were verbatim copied without any acknowledgement or reference to my > work in a book published by a reputed publisher of Delhi. I wrote to them, > they did not reply. My solicitor advised purchasing a copy for production > if I wanted to start legal proceedings. I wanted to purchase. Again, the > publishers were silent. In the mean time my book went out of print. > It requires so much energy and resources to carry on legal proceedings > that one engaged in work often gives up. > With best wishes for all and collegial sympathy for co-sufferers. > > DB > > > On Fri, Jul 31, 2015 at 1:50 AM, Jan E.M. Houben > wrote: > >> Indology and plagiarism >> >> Apart from borderline cases there are also cases of undeniable massive >> plagiarism. >> One case was discussed long ago by Roy Andrew Miller (JAOS 115.2 [1995]: >> 343-344), and >> a new episode in the same case history was discussed eight years later, >> now twelve years >> ago, by me (AS/EA 57.1 [2003] p 163, author's copy academia.edu/7196478/ >> p 55). >> From a quick online search I infer that the publication based on massive >> plagiarizing is apparently still for sale and present in university >> libraries. >> Some similarities with the current case under discussion, except, I hope, >> quantitatively: >> R Diekstra, till 1997 prof of psychology at Univ of Leiden: those who >> discovered textual >> borrowings which were not or very incompletely acknowledged were >> aggressively attacked by a >> dherents of their favourite public intellectual Diekstra, his sources >> were (page after page) >> from sources relatively unknown to his target public (dutch readers on >> psychotherapy), he >> claimed to be working in haste for a higher aim (helping those needing >> psychotherapy). >> http://linguafranca.mirror.theinfo.org/9704/fn9704.html >> >> This could be a suitable occasion for the Indology List, the ONLY ONLINE >> FORUM IN THE WORLD >> since 2001 specializing in academic exchange for bona fide scholars, >> "east" >> and "west", in Indology and classical South Asia studies, to give a >> stronger profile >> to Indology's "brand name". >> >> Would there be any harm if the current dv?rap?las of the Indology List >> specify >> "Indology"'s position on plagiarism in the Guidelines, for instance that >> the >> hypothetic case of plagiarizing (at least if it is massive?) leads to >> cancellation >> of full membership (should have been self-evident but perhaps it is not), >> and that >> emphatic encouragement and condoning of plagiarism leads to first a >> warning next to >> suspension of full membership? Pro-plagiarists and those in favour of >> plagiarism >> leniency may feel irritated through such explicit stance but 95% others >> would either >> welcome it or consider it self-evident. >> >> This move could liberate bandwidth of the List for more useful and >> interesting topics and >> issues. >> >> Jan Houben >> >> >> >> >> >> *Jan E.M. HOUBEN* >> >> Directeur d??tudes >> >> Sources et histoire de la tradition sanskrite >> >> *?cole Pratique des Hautes ?tudes* >> >> *Sciences historiques et philologiques * >> >> 54, rue Saint-Jacques >> >> CS 20525 ? 75005 Paris >> >> johannes.houben at ephe.sorbonne.fr >> >> https://ephe-sorbonne.academia.edu/JanEMHouben >> >> www.ephe.fr >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> INDOLOGY mailing list >> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info >> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing >> committee) >> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or >> unsubscribe) >> > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jemhouben at gmail.com Mon Aug 3 16:05:44 2015 From: jemhouben at gmail.com (Jan E.M. Houben) Date: Mon, 03 Aug 15 18:05:44 +0200 Subject: =?utf-8?Q?[INDOLOGY]_New_publication_:_Godabarisha_Mishra_(ed.)_:_Ved=C4=81nta_Without_M=C4=81y=C4=81_=3F?= Message-ID: Godabarisha Mishra (ed.) : Ved?nta Without M?y? ? A debate on Saptavidha-Anupapatti. ??????????? ???????? ? ????????????????????? ???? Published by the Indian Council of Philosophical Research and Motilal Banarsidass Publishers, Delhi, 2015. 29 papers mostly by Indian contributors, some in English, some in Sanskrit, divided over four sections, ? Bakground : historical and philosophical ?, ? M?y?-avidy? : the concept and the critique ?, ? Saptavidh?nupapatti : a live debate ?, ? M?y?-avidy? : some reflections ?. For those able to receive it (it will not remain in the archived version) I attach a scanned table of content. Rather than as helpless goats, ?a?kara and R?m?nuja appear here as intellectual lions, whose domain-defining roars resound even in the live debate that is central in this volume. *Jan E.M. HOUBEN* Directeur d??tudes Sources et histoire de la tradition sanskrite *?cole Pratique des Hautes ?tudes* *Sciences historiques et philologiques * 54, rue Saint-Jacques CS 20525 ? 75005 Paris johannes.houben at ephe.sorbonne.fr https://ephe-sorbonne.academia.edu/JanEMHouben www.ephe.fr -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: ToCGMishraVedaantawithoutmaayaa2015.pdf Type: application/pdf Size: 901051 bytes Desc: not available URL: From kellner at asia-europe.uni-heidelberg.de Mon Aug 3 17:15:22 2015 From: kellner at asia-europe.uni-heidelberg.de (Birgit Kellner) Date: Mon, 03 Aug 15 19:15:22 +0200 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Seminal Taddei article translated into English in new issue of Transcultural Studies (2015.1) In-Reply-To: <695083070f714f4b9742081e9022dd82@EXCH05.ad.uni-heidelberg.de> Message-ID: <55BFA1AA.2030208@asia-europe.uni-heidelberg.de> Dear colleagues, you may be interested to learn that the latest issue of the online journal Transcultural Studies, published in Heidelberg, features Maurizio Taddei's "Narrative Art Between India and the Hellenistic World" (http://journals.ub.uni-heidelberg.de/index.php/transcultural/article/view/22215), originally published in Italian in 2003. The English translation was drafted by Emanuele Mattei, and revised by Rudolf Wagner and Anna Filigenzi. With best regards, Birgit Kellner -------- Weitergeleitete Nachricht -------- Betreff: [CLUSTER-ALL] Transcultural Studies 2015.1 Datum: Mon, 3 Aug 2015 16:56:03 +0000 Von: Juneja, Monica Antwort an: Juneja, Monica An: CLUSTER-ALL at LISTSERV.UNI-HEIDELBERG.DE Dear All, We are delighted to announce that the new issue of Transcultural Studies (2015.1) is now online at: www.transculturalstudies.org The issue features articles by Dhruv Raina, Maurizio Taddei, Christiane Brosius, Lisa B. Safford and Catherine V. Yeh. Our sincere thanks go to the authors for their contributions of substance and to Andrea Hacker and her team for their ? as always ? persevering efforts and exemplary commitment to the journal. We wish you enjoyable and instructive reading. Please do forward the link to potential readers and - importantly - contribute to the journal. The contents of the issue are appended below. With many good wishes for a pleasant summer! Monica Juneja, Joachim Kurtz and Rudolf Wagner Editors, /Transcultural Studies/ / / *No. 1, 2015* *Contents* *Editorial Note* Monica Juneja, Joachim Kurtz *Articles* Translating the "Exact" and "Positive" Sciences: Early Twentieth Century Reflections on the Past of the Sciences in India Dhruv Raina Narrative Art Between India and the Hellenistic World Maurizio Taddei (translated from the Italian) Emplacing and Excavating the City: Art, Ecology, and Public Space in New Delhi Christiane Brosius Art at the Crossroads: Lacquer Painting in French Vietnam Lisa Bixenstine Safford Recasting the Chinese Novel: Ernest Major?s Shenbao Publishing House (1872-1890) Catherine Vance Yeh From jemhouben at gmail.com Mon Aug 3 17:36:57 2015 From: jemhouben at gmail.com (Jan E.M. Houben) Date: Mon, 03 Aug 15 19:36:57 +0200 Subject: [INDOLOGY] meters and songs: the Vedas /// Re: Does anyone know of Sanskrit works that use 2nd-syllable rhyming In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Dear George, Good to have your message, please keep us informed of your broodings. Here some reflections on the interrelation of RV and SV: see for instance Jan Gonda 1975: 313-314 and references to Oldenberg. "Most of these stanzas are composed in gaayatrii metre or pragaatha stanzas and doubtless from the beginning intended for singing." Frits Staal apparently imagined a more or less "purely" Indo-european SV-less RV which is not attested: Staal 2008, Discovering the Vedas p. 116-117 and references, and p. 250-251: "The case of the Saamavedins is special ... the words of the original, indigenous Saamaveda chants are lost. ... their names are non-Indo-European: some have a recognizably BMAC structure and a few are Dravidian. The words of the RV often do not fit and the melodies seem to reflect another language." The last statement goes counter to an observation elsewhere advocated in Discovering the Vedas: the universality of music vis ? vis language. By way of comparison: Greek, Latin and Hebrew words fit equally well or bad in any melody of Gregorian chant (which also contains a few meaningless "stobhas"). If the seating arrangement in the sadas reflects an encounter between different populations or at least different ritual traditions (Frits Staal's important and original contribution to the issue), this encounter should have taken place long before the current version of the RV was finalized both according to the linguistic observations of FBJ Kuiper and according to the "saamavedic" observations of Oldenberg and Gonda of the RV being the oldest "samhitaa" of the SV. The currently available recension of the SV, however, is definitely "post-RV". I am sure Asko will have a more detailed and well-informed opinion on the matter and perhaps deals with it in his recent book. Jan *Jan E.M. HOUBEN* Directeur d??tudes Sources et histoire de la tradition sanskrite *?cole Pratique des Hautes ?tudes* *Sciences historiques et philologiques * 54, rue Saint-Jacques CS 20525 ? 75005 Paris johannes.houben at ephe.sorbonne.fr https://ephe-sorbonne.academia.edu/JanEMHouben www.ephe.fr On 30 July 2015 at 00:59, George Thompson wrote: > Dear Jan, > > Could you please elaborate on your parenthetical remark that '(Frits > Staal's theory on the Saamaveda therefore needs modification)'? Frits > certainly was aware of the importance of saamans in the RV. I am > constantly brooding about the riddles and enigmas of RV 1.164, which, as I > am sure you know, not only mentions saamans but also exhibits saaman-like > phonic patterns. Frits and I frequently talked about these things over the > last decade of his life. > > I would be interested to hear a more elaborate comment. > > Best wishes, > > George > > On Wed, Jul 29, 2015 at 6:24 AM, Jan E.M. Houben > wrote: > >> Dear Prof Paturi, >> Re: the statement which you forwarded, apparently with approval. This is >> purely hypothetical and beyond verification as the oldest text sufficiently >> attested that uses and reflects on verse-meters, >> the Rgveda, is also permeated by the knowledge and employment of >> "song-forms": saamans (Frits Staal's theory on the Saamaveda therefore >> needs modification). It was observed long ago by Oldenberg that the oldest >> textbook of the Saamaveda is the Rgveda itself: large parts are apparently >> from the beginning composed for the sake of "Saamavedic" employment. >> The absence of even a trace of Saamans and Saamaveda in the Avestan >> tradition vs. its pervasive presence in the Vedic tradition is remarkable >> and not compensated by the presence in both traditions of the genre of the >> Gaatha. >> Jan Houben >> >> >> >> *Jan E.M. HOUBEN* >> >> Directeur d??tudes >> >> Sources et histoire de la tradition sanskrite >> >> *?cole Pratique des Hautes ?tudes* >> >> *Sciences historiques et philologiques * >> >> 54, rue Saint-Jacques >> >> CS 20525 ? 75005 Paris >> >> johannes.houben at ephe.sorbonne.fr >> >> https://ephe-sorbonne.academia.edu/JanEMHouben >> >> www.ephe.fr >> >> >> On 29 July 2015 at 09:15, Nagaraj Paturi wrote: >> >>> Sri Naresh Keerthi wrote : >>> >>> >This feature of poetry seems to have eventually percolated into >>> recitative/performative forms that were half-way between poems and songs, >>> as well as into genres that were entirely song like. >>> >>> ----- Both first syllable and second syllable intraline rhymings are >>> features found in proverbs, riddles and other verbal folklore >>> forms functioning as auditory aesthetic forms serving as memorising tools >>> for the tradition-bearers of these oral traditions. >>> >>> It is more reasonable to expect a sharing of this feature by the native >>> verse-meters and lyrical forms with the folklore forms or diffusion of >>> these features from the verbal folklore forms and folk songs into >>> verse-meters rather than from verse-meters into song-forms. >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Prof.Nagaraj Paturi >>> Hyderabad-500044 >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> INDOLOGY mailing list >>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info >>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing >>> committee) >>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options >>> or unsubscribe) >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> INDOLOGY mailing list >> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info >> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing >> committee) >> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or >> unsubscribe) >> > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jemhouben at gmail.com Mon Aug 3 18:06:33 2015 From: jemhouben at gmail.com (Jan E.M. Houben) Date: Mon, 03 Aug 15 20:06:33 +0200 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Indology and plagiarism: specify stance in order to fortify "brand name" (and conclude lengthy threads) Message-ID: This clarification is indeed welcome. If it is shared by the listowner and other committee members, Indology's Scope and Guidelines dating from 10 July 2001 could in the same spirit be modified: esp. under 2 "Membership": leave out the first two sentences dealing with "accredited scholars" (MA and PhD degrees typically "happen off list") and the third one on those having a "scholarly commitment". This further makes the paragraph on "Special exceptions", also under 2, superfluous. A minority of the current Indology members could then reflect on a New International Indology Forum for "accredited scholars" not necessarily in the unwieldy form of a List but for instance as Bulletin Board, avoiding unnecessary loops and repetitions. Incidentally, Dean, could lengthy threads also be a function of the number of members on vacation or holiday? Mine is now over so I will no longer "plague" on this topic. Jan Houben *Jan E.M. HOUBEN* Directeur d??tudes Sources et histoire de la tradition sanskrite *?cole Pratique des Hautes ?tudes* *Sciences historiques et philologiques * 54, rue Saint-Jacques CS 20525 ? 75005 Paris johannes.houben at ephe.sorbonne.fr https://ephe-sorbonne.academia.edu/JanEMHouben www.ephe.fr On 31 July 2015 at 16:13, Audrey Truschke wrote: > Dear Colleagues, > > I am responding to this thread as the INDOLOGY committee member on duty > this week. > > The INDOLOGY governing committee moderate discussion on the list, not > other scholarly activities. Accordingly, alleged plagiarism in scholarship > concerning South Asia is certainly a welcome topic of civil discussion on > INDOLOGY. But the governing committee does not claim authority to > adjudicate or discipline anything that happens off list. > > Audrey Truschke > > Audrey Truschke > Mellon Postdoctoral Fellow > Department of Religious Studies > Stanford University > e- mail | website > > > On Thu, Jul 30, 2015 at 1:08 PM, Jan E.M. Houben > wrote: > >> Indology and plagiarism >> >> Apart from borderline cases there are also cases of undeniable massive >> plagiarism. >> One case was discussed long ago by Roy Andrew Miller (JAOS 115.2 [1995]: >> 343-344), and >> a new episode in the same case history was discussed eight years later, >> now twelve years >> ago, by me (AS/EA 57.1 [2003] p 163, author's copy academia.edu/7196478/ >> p 55). >> From a quick online search I infer that the publication based on massive >> plagiarizing is apparently still for sale and present in university >> libraries. >> Some similarities with the current case under discussion, except, I hope, >> quantitatively: >> R Diekstra, till 1997 prof of psychology at Univ of Leiden: those who >> discovered textual borrowings which were not or very incompletely >> acknowledged were aggressively attacked by adherents of their favourite >> public intellectual Diekstra, his sources were (page after page) from >> sources relatively unknown to his target public (dutch readers on >> psychotherapy), he claimed to be working in haste for a higher aim (helping >> those needing psychotherapy). >> http://linguafranca.mirror.theinfo.org/9704/fn9704.html >> >> This could be a suitable occasion for the Indology List, since 2001 the >> ONLY ONLINE >> FORUM IN THE WORLD specializing in academic exchange for bona fide >> scholars, "east" >> and "west", in Indology and classical South Asia studies, to give a >> stronger profile >> to Indology's "brand name". >> >> Would there be any harm if the current dv?rap?las of the Indology List >> specify >> "Indology"'s position on plagiarism in the Guidelines, for instance that >> the hypothetic case of plagiarizing (at least if it is massive?) leads to >> cancellation of full membership (should have been self-evident but perhaps >> it is not), and that emphatic encouragement and condoning of plagiarism >> leads to first a warning next to suspension of full membership? >> Pro-plagiarists and pro-plagiarism >> leniency may feel irritated through such explicit stance but 95% others >> would either welcome it or consider it self-evident. >> >> This move could liberate bandwidth of the List for more useful and >> interesting topics and >> issues. >> >> Jan Houben >> >> >> >> >> >> >> *Jan E.M. HOUBEN* >> >> Directeur d??tudes >> >> Sources et histoire de la tradition sanskrite >> >> *?cole Pratique des Hautes ?tudes* >> >> *Sciences historiques et philologiques * >> >> 54, rue Saint-Jacques >> >> CS 20525 ? 75005 Paris >> >> johannes.houben at ephe.sorbonne.fr >> >> https://ephe-sorbonne.academia.edu/JanEMHouben >> >> www.ephe.fr >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> INDOLOGY mailing list >> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info >> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing >> committee) >> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or >> unsubscribe) >> > > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing > committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or > unsubscribe) > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From nagarajpaturi at gmail.com Mon Aug 3 18:45:30 2015 From: nagarajpaturi at gmail.com (Nagaraj Paturi) Date: Tue, 04 Aug 15 00:15:30 +0530 Subject: [INDOLOGY] meters and songs: the Vedas /// Re: Does anyone know of Sanskrit works that use 2nd-syllable rhyming Message-ID: *>>It was observed long ago by Oldenberg that the oldest ** textbook of the Saamaveda is the Rgveda itself: large parts are apparently ** from the beginning composed for the sake of "Saamavedic" employment.* --------- This observation is not different from the emic perspective about RV -SV relation, except that the sequential older-later relation between the two is different from the simultaneity of RV-SV in the emic perspective. >>The last statement goes counter to an observation elsewhere advocated in Discovering the Vedas: the universality of music vis ? vis language. Could it be that 'language' in "The words of the RV often do not fit and the melodies seem to reflect another language." is different from a human/natural speech/tongue, but is something like a composing ? So "The words of the RV often do not fit and the melodies seem to reflect another language" may mean that the saaman singing employed for a certain mantra of RV does not match the meaning of the RV words. Something like a misfit music composing. Even this is different from the emic perspective since in the simultaneity view, there can not be any misfit. Presence of Dravidian or any words other than IE in the RV or any other Veda can be explained in terms of the influence of the language repertoire of the drashTA during the non-mantradars'ana state. Can such an explanation be extended to the music/singing style repertoire of the drashTA too? Then as you have pointed out , it will be in contradiction with the notion of universality of music. It is better to take a consistent stance with regard to the languages and singing styles both. -- Prof.Nagaraj Paturi Hyderabad-500044 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From stuart.sarbacker at oregonstate.edu Mon Aug 3 21:24:13 2015 From: stuart.sarbacker at oregonstate.edu (Stuart Ray Sarbacker) Date: Mon, 03 Aug 15 14:24:13 -0700 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Buddhist Studies position at Oregon State University Message-ID: <676AFB22-ABF7-40B1-A67E-463C485C4FE0@oregonstate.edu> Dear Colleagues-- Please pass this on to potential candidates (apologies for cross-posting). Many Thanks, -Stuart *** The School of History, Philosophy, and Religion at Oregon State University in Corvallis, Oregon invites applications from specialists in Buddhist Studies (Asian Buddhism) for a full-time tenure-track appointment at the Assistant Professor level, effective September 16, 2016. Teaching responsibilities are five courses per academic year. We seek candidates qualified to teach introductory and upper-level courses on Buddhist Studies and more broadly on Asian religion and philosophy. Candidates should also have the ability to teach an introductory course on world religions. The successful candidate will demonstrate competence in Religious Studies theory and methods, mastery of languages relevant to their area of specialization, have a Ph.D. in Religious Studies or a closely related field by employment start date, and possess the skill and enthusiasm required for research and teaching with excellence in Buddhist Studies and Religious Studies. Please submit your application online at https://jobs.oregonstate.edu to posting #0015254, including a letter of interest, a CV (including email address), and three letters of recommendation. Review of applications will begin on October 1, 2015. Preliminary interviews will be conducted at the AAR Annual Meeting in Atlanta and by Skype. OSU is committed to inclusive excellence by advancing equity and diversity in all that we do. We are an Affirmative Action/Equal Opportunity employer, and particularly encourage applications from members of historically underrepresented racial/ethnic groups, women, individuals with disabilities, veterans, LGBTQ community members, and others who demonstrate the ability to help us achieve our vision of a diverse and inclusive community. __ Stuart Ray Sarbacker Associate Professor Oregon State University stuart.sarbacker at oregonstate.edu http://liberalarts.oregonstate.edu/users/stuart-ray-sarbacker -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From zysk at hum.ku.dk Tue Aug 4 06:10:23 2015 From: zysk at hum.ku.dk (Kenneth Gregory Zysk) Date: Tue, 04 Aug 15 06:10:23 +0000 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Help with a text In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <363679393C2EB44480CDA76B2F23C9F70164AD40@P2KITMBX06WC03.unicph.domain> Dear List, I should like to obtain a digital copy of any version of Padma?r?, N?garasarvasva (with the commentary is preferred). I should greatly appreciate it, if someone could send me a copy. Best, Ken Kenneth Zysk, PhD, DPhil Head of Indology Department of Cross-Cultural and Regional Studies University of Copenhagen Karen Blixens Vej 4, Bygn. 10, DK-2300 Copenhagen S Denmark Ph: +45 3532 8951 Email: zysk at hum.ku.dk -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From vajpeyi at csds.in Tue Aug 4 06:07:55 2015 From: vajpeyi at csds.in (Ananya Vajpeyi) Date: Tue, 04 Aug 15 11:37:55 +0530 Subject: [INDOLOGY] New journal issue / July 2015 Message-ID: The July 2015 issue of Seminar: A Monthly Symposium, published in New Delhi, is focused on the politics of philology, the crisis in the classics, and the controversies surrounding the study of India's past. Members may access the complete issue online here: http://www.india-seminar.com/2015/671.htm Best, Ananya Vajpeyi (Guest Editor, Seminar 671, July 2015). http://www.csds.in/seminar-issues-guest-edited-ananya-vajpeyi -- *Ananya Vajpeyi, PhD * *Associate Fellow* *Centre for the Study of Developing Societies* *29 Rajpur Road, Civil Lines* *New Delhi 110054* *e: vajpeyi at csds.in * *http://www.hup.harvard.edu/catalog.php?isbn=9780674048959&content=book* *http://www.carnegiecouncil.org/programs/gen/gefellows/current/ananya_vajpeyi.html * -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rohana.seneviratne at orinst.ox.ac.uk Tue Aug 4 08:26:16 2015 From: rohana.seneviratne at orinst.ox.ac.uk (Rohana Seneviratne) Date: Tue, 04 Aug 15 08:26:16 +0000 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Help with a text In-Reply-To: <363679393C2EB44480CDA76B2F23C9F70164AD40@P2KITMBX06WC03.unicph.domain> Message-ID: <263AADEB1C61774CB059F93BD3A6940B174311@MBX06.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> Dear Prof. Kenneth, I've got the following edition with a Hindi gloss. http://www.worldcat.org/oclc/69387412 I just uploaded it here, please visit the link to download. https://archive.org/details/Nagarasarvasva-of-Padmasri Best Wishes, Rohana ------------------------------------------------ Rohana Seneviratne DPhil Student in Sanskrit The Oriental Institute Faculty of Oriental Studies University of Oxford Pusey Lane, Oxford OX1 2LE United Kingdom Email: rohana.seneviratne at orinst.ox.ac.uk Web: http://users.ox.ac.uk/~pemb3753/ ________________________________ From: INDOLOGY [indology-bounces at list.indology.info] on behalf of Kenneth Gregory Zysk [zysk at hum.ku.dk] Sent: Tuesday, August 04, 2015 7:10 AM To: indology at list.indology.info Subject: [INDOLOGY] Help with a text Dear List, I should like to obtain a digital copy of any version of Padma?r?, N?garasarvasva (with the commentary is preferred). I should greatly appreciate it, if someone could send me a copy. Best, Ken Kenneth Zysk, PhD, DPhil Head of Indology Department of Cross-Cultural and Regional Studies University of Copenhagen Karen Blixens Vej 4, Bygn. 10, DK-2300 Copenhagen S Denmark Ph: +45 3532 8951 Email: zysk at hum.ku.dk -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rohana.seneviratne at orinst.ox.ac.uk Tue Aug 4 08:33:57 2015 From: rohana.seneviratne at orinst.ox.ac.uk (Rohana Seneviratne) Date: Tue, 04 Aug 15 08:33:57 +0000 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Looking for The Ratnamalavadana PDF Message-ID: <263AADEB1C61774CB059F93BD3A6940B17431C@MBX06.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> Dear All, I am looking for a PDF of the Ratnamalavadana, TAKAHATA's edition (1954). We have it here at the BOD but a handy PDF will always help. http://www.worldcat.org/oclc/469935351 Please kindly share if you have got it. Thank you very much in advance. Best Wishes, Rohana ------------------------------------------------ Rohana Seneviratne DPhil Student in Sanskrit The Oriental Institute Faculty of Oriental Studies University of Oxford Pusey Lane, Oxford OX1 2LE United Kingdom Email: rohana.seneviratne at orinst.ox.ac.uk Web: http://users.ox.ac.uk/~pemb3753/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From disimone at alumni.stanford.edu Tue Aug 4 10:20:35 2015 From: disimone at alumni.stanford.edu (Charles DiSimone) Date: Tue, 04 Aug 15 12:20:35 +0200 Subject: =?utf-8?Q?[INDOLOGY]_PhD_scholarships_for_Buddhist_Studies_at_Ludwig-Maximilians-Universit=C3=A4t_in_Munich?= Message-ID: Apologies for cross posting but I've ben asked to post this to the Indology list by folk who are not subscribed. Interested parties should respond to the contact info below. -- Charles DiSimone Promotionsprogramm Buddhismus-Studien Institut f?r Indologie und Tibetologie Ludwig-Maximilians-Universit?t M?nchen Type: Grant Date: July 24, 2015 to October 18, 2015 Location: Germany Subject Fields: Asian History / Studies, Chinese History / Studies, Japanese History / Studies, Religious Studies and Theology Dear colleagues, The Doctoral Program in Buddhist Studies at the Ludwig-Maximilians-University in Munich, Germany invites applications for two PhD scholarships for dissertation projects related to Buddhism: Deadline for applications: 18 October 2015 Start of scholarship: Summer or autumn 2016 Duration of scholarship: 3 or 4 years Scholarship amount: ?1000 per month + insurance + support for rent + ?460 per year Scholarship donor: German Academic Exchange Service (DAAD) The selection process comprises two stages: Applications are sent to the Doctoral Program in Buddhist Studies in Munich. The program will select promising candidates, who then have to submit their materials to the DAAD. Subsequently, an election committee chosen by the DAAD decides upon the successful candidates. It is expected that the successful candidates will be chosen and informed by February 2016. The prerequisites for application are non-German citizenship (foreign applicants should not have lived in Germany for more than fifteen months at the time of their application), a Master of Arts or Magister Artium degree or equivalent, excellent knowledge of at least one Buddhist source language, outstanding qualifications in the subject, and fluency in English. A basic knowledge of German is also desirable, though not a prerequisite, but willingness to learn German/improve German language skills will be expected. It is desirable that, at the time of the application, the last final examination has taken place no more than six years ago. For details concerning the application, please visit our homepage: http://www.en.buddhismus-studien.uni-muenchen.de/currentissues/phd_schol... With best regards Paulus Kaufmann Contact Info: Doctoral Program in Buddhist Studies c/o Japan- Zentrum Oettingenstrasse 67 80538 Munich Germany Contact Email: buddhist-studies at lrz.uni-muenchen.de URL: http://www.en.buddhismus-studien.uni-muenchen.de/currentissues/phd_scholarships_2016/index.html -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From caf57 at cam.ac.uk Tue Aug 4 17:13:27 2015 From: caf57 at cam.ac.uk (C.A. Formigatti) Date: Tue, 04 Aug 15 18:13:27 +0100 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Looking for The Ratnamalavadana PDF In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <6dd4117ac7bd817e9ff93fb27e4b88b6@cam.ac.uk> If anybody finds it, I would like to receive it too. Best wishes, Camillo Formigatti > Dear All, > > I am looking for a PDF of the Ratnamalavadana, TAKAHATA's edition > (1954). We have it here at the BOD but a handy PDF will always help. > > http://www.worldcat.org/oclc/469935351 [1] > > Please kindly share if you have got it. Thank you very much in > advance. > > Best Wishes, > Rohana > ------------------------------------------------ > Rohana Seneviratne > DPhil Student in Sanskrit > The Oriental Institute > Faculty of Oriental Studies > University of Oxford > Pusey Lane, Oxford > OX1 2LE > United Kingdom > > Email: rohana.seneviratne at orinst.ox.ac.uk > Web: http://users.ox.ac.uk/~pemb3753/ > From rohana.seneviratne at orinst.ox.ac.uk Tue Aug 4 18:40:26 2015 From: rohana.seneviratne at orinst.ox.ac.uk (Rohana Seneviratne) Date: Tue, 04 Aug 15 18:40:26 +0000 Subject: =?utf-8?Q?[INDOLOGY]_Use_of_the_term_"=C5=9Bloka"?= Message-ID: <263AADEB1C61774CB059F93BD3A6940B17437F@MBX06.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> Dear All, Please kindly help me understand the use of the term "?loka" in describing the contents of manuscripts, as in the case; "Extent of the manuscript: 300 ?lokas." Clearly it does not denote only the verses in anustubh, because some works contain more or fewer verses than the extent given as such in mss catalogues, and even the contents of some prose works are introduced that way. Could it be the number of lines or complete sentences they refer to with the term ?loka? Thank you. With Best Wishes, Rohana ------------------------------------------------ Rohana Seneviratne DPhil Student in Sanskrit The Oriental Institute Faculty of Oriental Studies University of Oxford Pusey Lane, Oxford OX1 2LE United Kingdom Email: rohana.seneviratne at orinst.ox.ac.uk Web: http://users.ox.ac.uk/~pemb3753/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From wujastyk at gmail.com Tue Aug 4 20:59:55 2015 From: wujastyk at gmail.com (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Tue, 04 Aug 15 14:59:55 -0600 Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_[INDOLOGY]_Use_of_the_term_"=C5=9Bloka"?= In-Reply-To: <263AADEB1C61774CB059F93BD3A6940B17437F@MBX06.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: It may be an alternative for the word "grantha" that scribes used to quantify their work, so as to charge for it. A grantha is 32 syllables. Best, Dominik Wujastyk ? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From wujastyk at gmail.com Tue Aug 4 21:10:55 2015 From: wujastyk at gmail.com (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Tue, 04 Aug 15 15:10:55 -0600 Subject: [INDOLOGY] avoiding insignificant corrections Message-ID: Dear freinds, We are a scholalry community that stribes for precision. Email is a medium that lies somewhere betwen speech and proper writing, but is neither. It has carved out it's own speshial space as what might be caled a "casual written" form. It is painful to send of a mesage and see, just a second later, that theres a errror in it. However, for all the other readers on the list, it is also painful to receive supplementory posts correcting minor spelling errors in a previos post. I sugest that - inasmuch as we can bear it -- we just allow a normal level of typos to go past without comment, and that we take a lenient attitudde with eachothers posts. You'res, Dominic Wujastky -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rohana.seneviratne at orinst.ox.ac.uk Tue Aug 4 21:11:05 2015 From: rohana.seneviratne at orinst.ox.ac.uk (Rohana Seneviratne) Date: Tue, 04 Aug 15 21:11:05 +0000 Subject: =?utf-8?Q?[INDOLOGY]_FW:__Use_of_the_term_"=C5=9Bloka"?= In-Reply-To: <263AADEB1C61774CB059F93BD3A6940B17437F@MBX06.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: <263AADEB1C61774CB059F93BD3A6940B1743DB@MBX06.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> My sincere thanks are due to Petra Kieffer-P?lz, Madhav Deshpande, Robert Hueckstedt and Dominik Wujastyk, who kindly explained that "?loka" in this context means a unit of text length, which consists of 32 syllables. Thank you all again. With Best Wishes, Rohana ------------------------------------------------ Rohana Seneviratne DPhil Student in Sanskrit The Oriental Institute Faculty of Oriental Studies University of Oxford Pusey Lane, Oxford OX1 2LE United Kingdom Email: rohana.seneviratne at orinst.ox.ac.uk Web: http://users.ox.ac.uk/~pemb3753/ ________________________________ From: INDOLOGY [indology-bounces at list.indology.info] on behalf of Rohana Seneviratne [rohana.seneviratne at orinst.ox.ac.uk] Sent: Tuesday, August 04, 2015 7:40 PM To: indology at list.indology.info Subject: [INDOLOGY] Use of the term "?loka" Dear All, Please kindly help me understand the use of the term "?loka" in describing the contents of manuscripts, as in the case; "Extent of the manuscript: 300 ?lokas." Clearly it does not denote only the verses in anustubh, because some works contain more or fewer verses than the extent given as such in mss catalogues, and even the contents of some prose works are introduced that way. Could it be the number of lines or complete sentences they refer to with the term ?loka? Thank you. With Best Wishes, Rohana ------------------------------------------------ Rohana Seneviratne DPhil Student in Sanskrit The Oriental Institute Faculty of Oriental Studies University of Oxford Pusey Lane, Oxford OX1 2LE United Kingdom Email: rohana.seneviratne at orinst.ox.ac.uk Web: http://users.ox.ac.uk/~pemb3753/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From yogacara at gmail.com Tue Aug 4 22:09:08 2015 From: yogacara at gmail.com (Dan Lusthaus) Date: Tue, 04 Aug 15 18:09:08 -0400 Subject: [INDOLOGY] avoiding insignificant corrections In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > painful to receive supplementory posts correcting minor spelling errors in a previos post. Prof. Wujastky, shood'nt that bee "...correcting miner's errers..."? :-) Dan Lusthaus -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rpg at berkeley.edu Tue Aug 4 22:29:06 2015 From: rpg at berkeley.edu (Robert Goldman) Date: Tue, 04 Aug 15 15:29:06 -0700 Subject: [INDOLOGY] avoiding insignificant corrections In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <21D1310C-239B-4DB3-ADE8-329E04E46A5C@berkeley.edu> Excellent observation, Dharmanik. Dr. R. P. Goldman Catherine and William L. Magistretti Distinguished Professor in South and Southeast Asian Studies Department of South and Southeast Asian Studies MC # 2540 The University of California at Berkeley Berkeley, CA 94720-2540 Tel: 510-642-4089 Fax: 510-642-2409 > On Aug 4, 2015, at 2:10 PM, Dominik Wujastyk wrote: > > Dear freinds, > > We are a scholalry community that stribes for precision. Email is a medium that lies somewhere betwen speech and proper writing, but is neither. It has carved out it's own speshial space as what might be caled a "casual written" form. > > It is painful to send of a mesage and see, just a second later, that theres a errror in it. However, for all the other readers on the list, it is also painful to receive supplementory posts correcting minor spelling errors in a previos post. > > I sugest that - inasmuch as we can bear it -- we just allow a normal level of typos to go past without comment, and that we take a lenient attitudde with eachothers posts. > > You'res, > Dominic Wujastky > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dipak.d2004 at gmail.com Wed Aug 5 04:49:08 2015 From: dipak.d2004 at gmail.com (Dipak Bhattacharya) Date: Wed, 05 Aug 15 10:19:08 +0530 Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_[INDOLOGY]_Use_of_the_term_"=C5=9Bloka"?= In-Reply-To: <263AADEB1C61774CB059F93BD3A6940B17437F@MBX06.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: Any verse may be loosely mentioned as ;sloka. Perhaps here too the meaning is 'verse' that may be in any metre and might consist of four or, even, six quarters. Best DB On Wed, Aug 5, 2015 at 12:10 AM, Rohana Seneviratne < rohana.seneviratne at orinst.ox.ac.uk> wrote: > Dear All, > > Please kindly help me understand the use of the term "?loka" in describing > the contents of manuscripts, as in the case; "Extent of the manuscript: 300 > ?lokas." Clearly it does not denote only the verses in anustubh, because > some works contain more or fewer verses than the extent given as such in > mss catalogues, and even the contents of some prose works are introduced > that way. > > Could it be the number of lines or complete sentences they refer to with > the term ?loka? > > Thank you. > > With Best Wishes, > Rohana > ------------------------------------------------ > Rohana Seneviratne > DPhil Student in Sanskrit > The Oriental Institute > Faculty of Oriental Studies > University of Oxford > Pusey Lane, Oxford > OX1 2LE > United Kingdom > > Email: rohana.seneviratne at orinst.ox.ac.uk > Web: http://users.ox.ac.uk/~pemb3753/ > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing > committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or > unsubscribe) > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From james.hartzell at gmail.com Wed Aug 5 16:17:26 2015 From: james.hartzell at gmail.com (James Hartzell) Date: Wed, 05 Aug 15 10:17:26 -0600 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Brains of Yajurveda Pandits are different Message-ID: Dear all, Herewith a link to the published (in Neuroimage, open access), peer-reviewed study we did of the brain structure of Delhi-area, qualified Yajurveda Pandits from government Vedic schools. I hope this may be of some interest and/or use to some members of the list. http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1053811915006382?np=y We found very large changes in the grey matter (neuronal tissue) of the Yajurveda Pandits' brains. The evidence we found strongly suggests that 7-10 years of intensive, professional-level training in memorizing and reciting the Yajurveda Samhita (and related texts) is associated with some of the largest changes in brain structure ever reported for a cross-sectional study (i.e. one that compares two closely matched groups, here two groups that differ primarily in the Yajurveda training). Article Title: Brains of verbal memory specialists show anatomical differences in language, memory and visual systems Authors: James F. Hartzell, Ben Davis, David Melcher, Gabriele Miceli, Jorge Jovicich, Tanmay Nath, Nandini Chatterjee Singh, Uri Hasson Highlights: ? We compared professional Sanskrit verbal memory specialists and well-matched controls. ? We measured cortical thickness (CT), gray matter density (GM), and gyrification (LGI). ? Pandits showed increases in CT and GM in lateral temporal cortices. ? Pandits showed relative decrease in subcortical GM and occipital LGI. ? Findings suggest brain organization supporting intensive oral memorization/recitation. Abstract: We studied a group of verbal memory specialists to determine whether intensive oral text memory is associated with structural features of hippocampal and lateral-temporal regions implicated in language processing. Professional Vedic Sanskrit Pandits in India train from childhood for around 10 years in an ancient, formalized tradition of oral Sanskrit text memorization and recitation, mastering the exact pronunciation and invariant content of multiple 40,000?100,000 word oral texts. We conducted structural analysis of gray matter density, cortical thickness, local gyrification, and white matter structure, relative to matched controls. We found massive gray matter density and cortical thickness increases in Pandit brains in language, memory and visual systems, including i) bilateral lateral temporal cortices and ii) the anterior cingulate cortex and the hippocampus, regions associated with long and short-term memory. Differences in hippocampal morphometry matched those previously documented for expert spatial navigators and individuals with good verbal working memory. The findings provide unique insight into the brain organization implementing formalized oral knowledge systems. --- This is the first of two papers from my current PhD project in Cognitive Neuroscience. The second paper will examine in detail what preliminary evidence suggests are extensive differences in the white matter (neuronal axon) tracts in the Pandit brains compared to controls. We are, by the way, actively seeking postdoctoral funding to continue the project -- our PhD funding finishes in October 2015. Any suggestions for potential funding sources are most welcome (off-list), as are any questions about the published work (either on- or off-list). Cheers James Hartzell, PhD Center for Mind/Brain Sciences (CIMeC) The University of Trento, Italy -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From m.gluckman at anu.edu.au Wed Aug 5 16:25:16 2015 From: m.gluckman at anu.edu.au (Martin Gluckman) Date: Wed, 05 Aug 15 21:55:16 +0530 Subject: [INDOLOGY] OCR for Romanized Sanskrit with Abbyy FineReader Message-ID: Dear All, If anyone has worked rather extensively with Abbyy for OCR with romanized Sanskrit texts with diacritics and is happy to share their supplementary recognition file resulted from the training of Abbyy on such texts we would be most grateful. We are planning to OCR a number of texts and it would be great not to have to train Abbyy from 0 through I must say the latest versions are very good at recognizing diacritics if you simply type a sample of the character into the additional character set option in the software. There is reference to this planning to be made available in this post in 2010 but thereafter I have not seen further in this regard. FYI: "You can save the trained pattern via menu TOOLS > OPTIONS > tab READ > "User patterns and languages"." Kindest Wishes, Martin Gluckman -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dmellins at gmail.com Wed Aug 5 16:58:18 2015 From: dmellins at gmail.com (David Mellins) Date: Wed, 05 Aug 15 12:58:18 -0400 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Brains of Yajurveda Pandits are different In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <5C862C75-175C-4365-8BBA-4B2C771A092F@gmail.com> apokigies for my publically extending my exuberance. Cheers, Fabid Mellins Sent from my iPhone > On Aug 5, 2015, at 12:17 PM, James Hartzell wrote: > > Dear all, > > Herewith a link to the published (in Neuroimage, open access), peer-reviewed study we did of the brain structure of Delhi-area, qualified Yajurveda Pandits from government Vedic schools. I hope this may be of some interest and/or use to some members of the list. > > http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1053811915006382?np=y > > We found very large changes in the grey matter (neuronal tissue) of the Yajurveda Pandits' brains. The evidence we found strongly suggests that 7-10 years of intensive, professional-level training in memorizing and reciting the Yajurveda Samhita (and related texts) is associated with some of the largest changes in brain structure ever reported for a cross-sectional study (i.e. one that compares two closely matched groups, here two groups that differ primarily in the Yajurveda training). > > Article Title: Brains of verbal memory specialists show anatomical differences in language, memory and visual systems > > Authors: James F. Hartzell, Ben Davis, David Melcher, Gabriele Miceli, Jorge Jovicich, Tanmay Nath, Nandini Chatterjee Singh, Uri Hasson > > Highlights: > ? We compared professional Sanskrit verbal memory specialists and well-matched controls. > ? We measured cortical thickness (CT), gray matter density (GM), and gyrification (LGI). > ? Pandits showed increases in CT and GM in lateral temporal cortices. > ? Pandits showed relative decrease in subcortical GM and occipital LGI. > ? Findings suggest brain organization supporting intensive oral memorization/recitation. > > Abstract: > > We studied a group of verbal memory specialists to determine whether intensive oral text memory is associated with structural features of hippocampal and lateral-temporal regions implicated in language processing. Professional Vedic Sanskrit Pandits in India train from childhood for around 10 years in an ancient, formalized tradition of oral Sanskrit text memorization and recitation, mastering the exact pronunciation and invariant content of multiple 40,000?100,000 word oral texts. We conducted structural analysis of gray matter density, cortical thickness, local gyrification, and white matter structure, relative to matched controls. We found massive gray matter density and cortical thickness increases in Pandit brains in language, memory and visual systems, including i) bilateral lateral temporal cortices and ii) the anterior cingulate cortex and the hippocampus, regions associated with long and short-term memory. Differences in hippocampal morphometry matched those previously documented for expert spatial navigators and individuals with good verbal working memory. The findings provide unique insight into the brain organization implementing formalized oral knowledge systems. > --- > > This is the first of two papers from my current PhD project in Cognitive Neuroscience. The second paper will examine in detail what preliminary evidence suggests are extensive differences in the white matter (neuronal axon) tracts in the Pandit brains compared to controls. > > We are, by the way, actively seeking postdoctoral funding to continue the project -- our PhD funding finishes in October 2015. Any suggestions for potential funding sources are most welcome (off-list), as are any questions about the published work (either on- or off-list). > > Cheers > > James Hartzell, PhD > Center for Mind/Brain Sciences (CIMeC) > The University of Trento, Italy > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dmellins at gmail.com Wed Aug 5 17:17:06 2015 From: dmellins at gmail.com (David Mellins) Date: Wed, 05 Aug 15 13:17:06 -0400 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Brains of Yajurveda Pandits are different In-Reply-To: <5C862C75-175C-4365-8BBA-4B2C771A092F@gmail.com> Message-ID: And for spellinf my own name wrong. DRM Sent from my iPhone > On Aug 5, 2015, at 12:58 PM, David Mellins wrote: > > apokigies for my publically extending my exuberance. > > Cheers, > > Fabid Mellins > > Sent from my iPhone > >> On Aug 5, 2015, at 12:17 PM, James Hartzell wrote: >> >> Dear all, >> >> Herewith a link to the published (in Neuroimage, open access), peer-reviewed study we did of the brain structure of Delhi-area, qualified Yajurveda Pandits from government Vedic schools. I hope this may be of some interest and/or use to some members of the list. >> >> http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1053811915006382?np=y >> >> We found very large changes in the grey matter (neuronal tissue) of the Yajurveda Pandits' brains. The evidence we found strongly suggests that 7-10 years of intensive, professional-level training in memorizing and reciting the Yajurveda Samhita (and related texts) is associated with some of the largest changes in brain structure ever reported for a cross-sectional study (i.e. one that compares two closely matched groups, here two groups that differ primarily in the Yajurveda training). >> >> Article Title: Brains of verbal memory specialists show anatomical differences in language, memory and visual systems >> >> Authors: James F. Hartzell, Ben Davis, David Melcher, Gabriele Miceli, Jorge Jovicich, Tanmay Nath, Nandini Chatterjee Singh, Uri Hasson >> >> Highlights: >> ? We compared professional Sanskrit verbal memory specialists and well-matched controls. >> ? We measured cortical thickness (CT), gray matter density (GM), and gyrification (LGI). >> ? Pandits showed increases in CT and GM in lateral temporal cortices. >> ? Pandits showed relative decrease in subcortical GM and occipital LGI. >> ? Findings suggest brain organization supporting intensive oral memorization/recitation. >> >> Abstract: >> >> We studied a group of verbal memory specialists to determine whether intensive oral text memory is associated with structural features of hippocampal and lateral-temporal regions implicated in language processing. Professional Vedic Sanskrit Pandits in India train from childhood for around 10 years in an ancient, formalized tradition of oral Sanskrit text memorization and recitation, mastering the exact pronunciation and invariant content of multiple 40,000?100,000 word oral texts. We conducted structural analysis of gray matter density, cortical thickness, local gyrification, and white matter structure, relative to matched controls. We found massive gray matter density and cortical thickness increases in Pandit brains in language, memory and visual systems, including i) bilateral lateral temporal cortices and ii) the anterior cingulate cortex and the hippocampus, regions associated with long and short-term memory. Differences in hippocampal morphometry matched those previously documented for expert spatial navigators and individuals with good verbal working memory. The findings provide unique insight into the brain organization implementing formalized oral knowledge systems. >> --- >> >> This is the first of two papers from my current PhD project in Cognitive Neuroscience. The second paper will examine in detail what preliminary evidence suggests are extensive differences in the white matter (neuronal axon) tracts in the Pandit brains compared to controls. >> >> We are, by the way, actively seeking postdoctoral funding to continue the project -- our PhD funding finishes in October 2015. Any suggestions for potential funding sources are most welcome (off-list), as are any questions about the published work (either on- or off-list). >> >> Cheers >> >> James Hartzell, PhD >> Center for Mind/Brain Sciences (CIMeC) >> The University of Trento, Italy >> _______________________________________________ >> INDOLOGY mailing list >> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info >> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) >> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rohana.seneviratne at orinst.ox.ac.uk Wed Aug 5 18:09:50 2015 From: rohana.seneviratne at orinst.ox.ac.uk (Rohana Seneviratne) Date: Wed, 05 Aug 15 18:09:50 +0000 Subject: [INDOLOGY] avoiding insignificant corrections In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <263AADEB1C61774CB059F93BD3A6940B174477@MBX06.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> I'm sure many of you are aware of this great offer from Google. The Gmail users can now undo sending within a maximum of 30 seconds. I personally find it very useful as I often hit the send button without attaching the attachment I say I do in the email. :) https://support.google.com/mail/answer/1284885?hl=en With Best Wishes, Rohana ------------------------------------------------ Rohana Seneviratne DPhil Student in Sanskrit The Oriental Institute Faculty of Oriental Studies University of Oxford Pusey Lane, Oxford OX1 2LE United Kingdom Email: rohana.seneviratne at orinst.ox.ac.uk Web: http://users.ox.ac.uk/~pemb3753/ ________________________________ From: INDOLOGY [indology-bounces at list.indology.info] on behalf of Dominik Wujastyk [wujastyk at gmail.com] Sent: Tuesday, August 04, 2015 10:10 PM To: Indology Subject: [INDOLOGY] avoiding insignificant corrections Dear freinds, We are a scholalry community that stribes for precision. Email is a medium that lies somewhere betwen speech and proper writing, but is neither. It has carved out it's own speshial space as what might be caled a "casual written" form. It is painful to send of a mesage and see, just a second later, that theres a errror in it. However, for all the other readers on the list, it is also painful to receive supplementory posts correcting minor spelling errors in a previos post. I sugest that - inasmuch as we can bear it -- we just allow a normal level of typos to go past without comment, and that we take a lenient attitudde with eachothers posts. You'res, Dominic Wujastky -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From davidpaolo.pierdominicileao at uniroma1.it Thu Aug 6 05:58:14 2015 From: davidpaolo.pierdominicileao at uniroma1.it (David Pierdominici) Date: Thu, 06 Aug 15 07:58:14 +0200 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Padukasahasram Message-ID: <5084C6F9-A483-4686-AFD8-C3DA6A558A82@uniroma1.it> Dear Members, I am looking for a pdf scan copy of Kavyamala no.92, the Padukasahasram; this work isn not digitized on sanskritebooks.org , unfortunately. I need this particular edition for its introduction. Many thanks, David Pierdominici -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From baums at lmu.de Thu Aug 6 09:18:00 2015 From: baums at lmu.de (Stefan Baums) Date: Thu, 06 Aug 15 11:18:00 +0200 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Job at University of Wisconsin Message-ID: <20150806091800.GI2975@deepthought> The Indology Committee has been asked to forward the attached job announcement to the list. -- Dr. Stefan Baums Institute for Indian and Tibetan Studies Ludwig Maximilian University of Munich From baums at lmu.de Thu Aug 6 09:22:01 2015 From: baums at lmu.de (Stefan Baums) Date: Thu, 06 Aug 15 11:22:01 +0200 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Job at University of Wisconsin In-Reply-To: <20150806091800.GI2975@deepthought> Message-ID: <20150806092201.GK2975@deepthought> It appears the announcement (a Word file) has been stripped from my post. I resend it here in PDF format. -- Dr. Stefan Baums Institute for Indian and Tibetan Studies Ludwig Maximilian University of Munich -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: 2015AsianStudiesJobAnnouncement.pdf Type: application/pdf Size: 71766 bytes Desc: not available URL: From rajam at earthlink.net Thu Aug 6 16:24:46 2015 From: rajam at earthlink.net (rajam) Date: Thu, 06 Aug 15 09:24:46 -0700 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Job at University of Wisconsin In-Reply-To: <20150806092201.GK2975@deepthought> Message-ID: What?s the deadline for sending in the application? Should the letters of recommendation be sent separately or together with the application? Way back when I was applying for jobs, the letters of recommendation were to be sealed and sent along with the application. I?d like to know about the current protocol, so I can guide some youngsters accordingly. Thanks and regards, rajam > On Aug 6, 2015, at 2:22 AM, Stefan Baums wrote: > > It appears the announcement (a Word file) has been > stripped from my post. I resend it here in PDF > format. > > -- > Dr. Stefan Baums > Institute for Indian and Tibetan Studies > Ludwig Maximilian University of Munich > <2015 Asian Studies Job Announcement.pdf>_______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jemhouben at gmail.com Thu Aug 6 16:34:51 2015 From: jemhouben at gmail.com (Jan E.M. Houben) Date: Thu, 06 Aug 15 18:34:51 +0200 Subject: =?utf-8?B?W0lORE9MT0dZXSDgpK7gpL7gpKjgpLXgpL7gpKfgpL/gpJXgpL7gpLDgpL7gpIMgLy8vIFJlOiAgbGF0ZXN0IEFJIHJlcG9ydCBvbiBJbmRpYQ==?= Message-ID: ??????????? ???????? Dear Piotr, Thanks for these links. Although they concern ?post-1800? issues, they may be of interest to list members for instance in the light of debates on the compatibility or otherwise of Indian traditions with Human Rights ? the latter according to some all implied by the well-known ?Golden Rule? known in one form or another in most major civilisations. As for Indian philosophical traditions, at least S??khya acknowledged humanity as unitary (SK 53 ... *m?nu?ya? caikavidha? *... ) and we do find occasional formulations of the ?Golden Rule? in S??khya-like contexts as I once pointed out in a contribution (www.academia.edu/7117708/) in a volume I co-edited in 1999 with Prof. Karel van Kooij, *Violence Denied *.... The thematic of this by now almost ?antique? volume finds, unfortunately, abundant illustration in the Kashmir Report *?Denied?* (2015) for which you provided the link. Sometimes things can change for the better, and public opinion has some impact however difficult to measure it may be. To improve Human Rights conditions they need to be known both by authorities and the wider public. The Declaration of Human Rights is now available also in numerous Indian languages, including Sanskrit (www.ohchr.org/EN/UDHR/Pages/Language.aspx?LangID=skt nice reading exercise for modern Sanskrit), and Kashmiri (www.ohchr.org/EN/UDHR/Pages/Language.aspx?LangID=ksh only in Perso-Arabic script, the Devanagari version a desideratum if not available elsewhere). When I became for a short period active member of the Maastricht branch of Amnesty International in 1977, we ?adopted? among countries with very high numbers of political prisoners detained without (fair) trial, Israel (under Begin), Poland (PRL under Jaroszewicz) and Eastern Germany (DDR, under Honecker), and started to write, both to authorities and to the prisoners themselves, with the hope at least to improve the prisoners' conditions. At present the human rights conditions have become significantly better in any case in the last two areas. If I understood correctly from the only easily readable part, the Preamble, and from discussions such as P.V. Kane vol. V pt. II p. 1663ff, also the Indian constitution was formulated and meant to be in accordance with Human Rights, but this is perhaps a topic not most suitable for this list. Best, Jan ??????????? ??????? ???????????????????????? *Jan E.M. HOUBEN* Directeur d??tudes Sources et histoire de la tradition sanskrite *?cole Pratique des Hautes ?tudes* *Sciences historiques et philologiques * 54, rue Saint-Jacques CS 20525 ? 75005 Paris johannes.houben at ephe.sorbonne.fr https://ephe-sorbonne.academia.edu/JanEMHouben www.ephe.fr On 2 July 2015 at 19:02, Piotr Balcerowicz wrote: > Dear Colleagues, > > Even though the following does not rise questions concerning the past of > India, in a way it is relevant to Indological research as one of background > factors. > Here?s a link to a highly interesting discussion on serious human rights > violations, crimes perpetrated by the Indian armed forces and their > impunity in the Indian-administered state of Jammu & Kashmir: > > http://www.aljazeera.com/programmes/insidestory/2015/07/kashmir-human-rights-abuse-150701222455840.html > (emblematic is the Hindutva-saffron T-shirt not to be missed...). > > The background for this discussion is the recent report by Amnesty > International on human rights violations in Kashmir: > > https://www.amnesty.org.in/show/news/accountability-still-missing-for-human-rights-violations-in-jammu-kashmir/ > > The full text of the report: > > https://www.amnesty.org.in/images/uploads/articles/Kashmir_Report_Web_version_%281%29.pdf > > Strange as it may seem, most Indologists are not aware that > India-administered part of the state of Jammu & Kashmir is the most > militarized place in the world with the population of approx. 12 million > people and approx. 750,000 - 850,000 armed forces, even though such heavy > military presence has no real strategic justification. According to > conservative estimates approx. 70,000 people were killed there at the hands > of the Indian army (other sources put the figure of 100,000 civilians). > More than 7,000 mass graves of civilians have been discovered in recent > years, in only five districts (out of a total of 25 districts -- no such > searches have so far been conducted in the other districts; one of the > earlier reports: http://www.kashmirprocess.org/reports/graves/toc > .html)). There are at least 8,000 documented abductions and killings of > civilians by Indian armed forces. Lawyers in Kashmir have reported crimes > in more than 15,000 cases of alledged crimes committed by the Indian armed > forces, but all such police investigations and court proceedings have been > consistently blocked by the Indian authorities. Numerous inverviews with > Kashmiris conducted on the spot reveal that virtually within every Kashmiri > family there is someone who has become a victim of repressions and torture. > No even a single case judicial proceedings has been been brought to an end > (except for two cases before military courts, but they do not dislose any > further information about the actual outcome), which is absolutely shocking > in a country that aspires to be governed by law. That also calls into > question the myth of Indian democracy. > Information on the crimes and human rights violations in Kashmir very > rarely reach the public, and even Indologists are barely aware of not only > the scale of these crimes, but even of their existence. These appalling > crimes and the scale of human rights violations is something which is quite > difficult to ignore, also for Indologists. Dealing with South Asia and > doing research on Indian past should not make Indologists immune to such > news concerning Indian modernity, who should be critical in such cases. > That is also a part of India we do research on, unfortunately. Unbiased > criticism of India?s policies is by definition constructive and is in the > best interest of India and its citizens, too. > > With best regards, > Piotr Balcerowicz > -------------------------------- > www.orient.uw.edu.pl/balcerowicz > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing > committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or > unsubscribe) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From james.hartzell at gmail.com Thu Aug 6 22:44:03 2015 From: james.hartzell at gmail.com (James Hartzell) Date: Thu, 06 Aug 15 16:44:03 -0600 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Yajurveda text requests Message-ID: Dear all, I would be most grateful if some colleagues on the list might be able to send me pdfs and/or digitized version links of the following: 1. Vishwabandhu's Grammatical index of the Yajurveda 2. A padapAtha of the YV Madhyandina Samhita (e.g. in the edition with Sayana's commentary or in Satawalekar's edition). Cheers, James Hartzell, PhD Center for Mind/Brain Sciences (CIMeC) The University of Trento, Italy -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From hhhock at illinois.edu Fri Aug 7 00:41:58 2015 From: hhhock at illinois.edu (Hock, Hans Henrich) Date: Fri, 07 Aug 15 00:41:58 +0000 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Yajurveda text requests In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <61C30D8E-1354-4D87-93F6-1F1203D7C5B9@illinois.edu> If there are such e-versions, I'd appreciate getting copies too Cheers Hans Sent from my iPhone > On Aug 6, 2015, at 17:45, James Hartzell wrote: > > Dear all, > > I would be most grateful if some colleagues on the list might be able to send me pdfs and/or digitized version links of the following: > > 1. Vishwabandhu's Grammatical index of the Yajurveda > 2. A padapAtha of the YV Madhyandina Samhita (e.g. in the edition with Sayana's commentary or in Satawalekar's edition). > > Cheers, > > James Hartzell, PhD > Center for Mind/Brain Sciences (CIMeC) > The University of Trento, Italy > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) From wujastyk at gmail.com Fri Aug 7 01:23:22 2015 From: wujastyk at gmail.com (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Thu, 06 Aug 15 19:23:22 -0600 Subject: [INDOLOGY] OCR for Romanized Sanskrit with Abbyy FineReader In-Reply-To: Message-ID: There is an OCR program specifically optimized for Devanagari, written by Oliver Hellwig . I've seen it demonstrated, and it is outstanding. I wouldn't bother with generic products built around Latin script, however flexible. Dominik Wujastyk? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From veerankp at gmail.com Fri Aug 7 08:33:59 2015 From: veerankp at gmail.com (Veeranarayana Pandurangi) Date: Fri, 07 Aug 15 14:03:59 +0530 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Padukasahasram In-Reply-To: <5084C6F9-A483-4686-AFD8-C3DA6A558A82@uniroma1.it> Message-ID: ? Padukasahasram of Vedantadesika 1951.pdf ? On Thu, Aug 6, 2015 at 11:28 AM, David Pierdominici < davidpaolo.pierdominicileao at uniroma1.it> wrote: > Dear Members, > > I am looking for a pdf scan copy of Kavyamala no.92, the Padukasahasram; > this work isn not digitized on sanskritebooks.org, unfortunately. I need > this particular edition for its introduction. > Many thanks, > > David Pierdominici > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing > committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or > unsubscribe) > -- Veeranarayana N.K. Pandurangi Director of Academics Dean, Faculty of Vedantas Karnakata Samskrita University, Pampa Mahakavi Road, Chamarajpet, Bengaluru. ?? ??????????? ??????? ???????? ? ????????? ??? ???????? ??????? ? ?????? ??????????????? ?????????????? ??????? ??????? ??????????? ??????????????? ?????? ???????? ??????????? (?.??.) http://www.ksu.ac.in http://www.ksu.ac.in/en/dr-veeranarayana-n-k-pandurangi/ https://groups.google.com/forum/?hl=en&fromgroups#!forum/bvparishat -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From kevinryan at fas.harvard.edu Fri Aug 7 21:34:17 2015 From: kevinryan at fas.harvard.edu (Kevin M. Ryan) Date: Fri, 07 Aug 15 23:34:17 +0200 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Second-syllable rhyme in Dravidian Message-ID: <55C52459.6020203@fas.harvard.edu> A few more points in tentative favor of a southern/Dravidian origin of second-syllable rhyme (SSR). I don't think any of these is clinching, but they add to the suggestive evidence. (1) SSR is already present -- pervasive even -- in the oldest attested Dravidian literature. I don't think anyone in this thread has made this explicit. The discussion of Dravidian cases so far seems to be focused on Middle Tamil (and Kannada and Telugu). But SSR is very frequent in Sangam texts and in the Tolk?ppiyam. It's true, it's not as strict as it is in some later texts, but its presence as a systematic poetic device (far beyond mere chance or occasional ornamentation) is clearly established from that earliest literature. (2) I don't know if anyone has previously noted this connection, but the phonological peculiarities of SSR bear an uncanny resemblance to another linguistic phenomenon that can be reconstructed securely (e.g. Krishnamurti 2003: 487) to Proto-South Dravidian and perhaps even further back, namely, echo reduplication of the type puli-kili [gili] "tigers and such". Not only does the span of correspondence in such doublets begin with the second syllable (or, more properly, with the consonant immediately following the first vowel; see below), but tellingly, just as in SSR, the initial vowels must agree in quantity, while being free to disagree in quality (e.g. p?mpu-k?mpu "snakes and such"; NB. *p?mpu-kimpu is out even though both initial syllables are heavy; thus, the restriction is about vowel length per se and not syllable weight, at least not in the usual metrical sense.) As such, such doublets form rhyming pairs, and I would find it surprising if the two systems, both with the same peculiar treatment of vowel length, arose independently. (3) This is perhaps a more conjectural point, but as a general phonologist, SSR strikes me as the sort of rhyme system likely to originate only in a language (group) with initial accent, which again would put it at home in ancient Dravidian. Across the world's languages, a strong (though perhaps not exceptionless) generalization about rhyme spans is that they tend to be tied to the syllable of greatest prominence in the word. In English full-rhyme, for example, the rhyme span normally begins with the primary stressed syllable, wherever in the word that syllable occurs, e.g. expect?tion ~ reific?tion ~ vac?tion ~ st?tion; gl?e ~ Tennes?e; etc. Same goes for French, Arabic, Old Norse, Tagalog, Georgian, etc. Dravidian is usually taken to have (if anything) initial accent, nowadays usually realized phonetically (as with many non-Dravidian languages in the Sprachbund as well) as an L*+H contour, i.e., a dip followed by a rise. I think this initial accent jibes nicely with line-initial SSR because "second-syllable rhyme" is a misnomer; the span is really anchored by the first syllable in SSR. First, initial vowels must correspond in length (as a function of the rhyme, not the meter); thus, quantitative correspondence begins with the first syllable. And then the proper generalization about the consonants is not that they must be in the second syllable, but rather that they are the first consonants following the initial vowels, regardless of their syllabic position. Thus, puT.pi.Ra rhymes with muT.ka.ran, but not with, say, kup.pai. An unrelated tradition that developed this same kind of rhyme phonology is Old Norse (in its so-called "half-rhyme"). It works essentially identically: the accented (normally initial) syllables are unregulated for quality (in half-rhyme) but have a tendency to be of the same length. And then the consonant rhyme span begins immediately following the vowel, regardless of whether the consonants are onsets, codas, or both. Thus Snorri Sturluson: gramr ~ fremri; Sjalfr ~ Elfar; jo,rD ~ fyrDum; etc. But this third argument is weak since (a) it's based on typological expectations and (b) Middle Indic languages could've developed initial accent as well, so it doesn't necessarily exclude a Middle Indic origin anyway. But put together with other evidence it's at least reassuring that SSR makes good phonological sense for a language like ancient Tamil. Kevin Ryan From jean-luc.chevillard at univ-paris-diderot.fr Sat Aug 8 00:05:36 2015 From: jean-luc.chevillard at univ-paris-diderot.fr (Jean-Luc Chevillard) Date: Sat, 08 Aug 15 05:35:36 +0530 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Second-syllable rhyme in Dravidian In-Reply-To: <55C52459.6020203@fas.harvard.edu> Message-ID: <55C547D0.5010206@univ-paris-diderot.fr> Yes, this feature which you mention ("the initial vowels must agree in quantity") is an important feature, and, interestingly, it must have been TOO OBVIOUS TO STATE, from the point of view of the Tolk?ppiyam, because the first Tolk?ppiyam s?tra explaining etukai is the second element in a pair of s?tras, which state (elliptically) TP397i a?ito?un talaiye?ut toppatu m??ai (= a?ito?um talai e?uttu oppatu m??ai). "That in which the head-/e?uttu/ in every /a?i/ is equal is /m??ai/." TP398i a?to?it to??i ?etukai y?kum (=a?tu o?ittu o??i? etukai ?kum). "If, that being omitted, there is identity, it will be /etukai/." These s?tras have been earlier preceded by a s?tra which explains the larger category of /to?ai/ and which states TP393i m??ai yetukai mura?? yiyaipe?a n??e?i marapi?a to?aivakai ye?pa. (m??ai etukai mura?? iyaipu e?a n?l ne?i marapi?a to?ai vakai e?pa.) "They say that the subdivisions of traditionally four-pathed /to?ai/ are: (1) m??ai, (2) etukai, (3) mura? "contrast" and (4) iyaipu The third element, mura?, and the fourth element, iyaipu, are characterized in: TP400i mo?iyi?um poru?i?u mura?uta? mura??. (= mo?iyi?um poru?i?um mura?utal mura??.) "The contrasting either in word or in meaning is /mura?/." TP401i i?uv? yoppi?a? tiyaipe?a mo?ipa. (= i?uv?y oppi? a?tu iyaipu e?a mo?ipa.) They call /iyaipu/ that in which final is identical; -- Jean-Luc Chevillard (Pondicherry) "https://univ-paris-diderot.academia.edu/JeanLucChevillard" "https://plus.google.com/u/0/113653379205101980081/posts/p/pub" "https://twitter.com/JLC1956" On 08/08/2015 03:04, Kevin M. Ryan wrote: > (2) I don't know if anyone has previously noted this connection, but the > phonological peculiarities of SSR bear an uncanny resemblance to another > linguistic phenomenon that can be reconstructed securely (e.g. > Krishnamurti 2003: 487) to Proto-South Dravidian and perhaps even > further back, namely, echo reduplication of the type puli-kili [gili] > "tigers and such". Not only does the span of correspondence in such > doublets begin with the second syllable (or, more properly, with the > consonant immediately following the first vowel; see below), but > tellingly, just as in SSR, the initial vowels must agree in quantity, > while being free to disagree in quality (e.g. p?mpu-k?mpu "snakes and > such"; NB. *p?mpu-kimpu is out even though both initial syllables are > heavy; thus, the restriction is about vowel length per se and not > syllable weight, at least not in the usual metrical sense.) As such, > such doublets form rhyming pairs, and I would find it surprising if the > two systems, both with the same peculiar treatment of vowel length, > arose independently. From nagarajpaturi at gmail.com Sat Aug 8 07:12:49 2015 From: nagarajpaturi at gmail.com (Nagaraj Paturi) Date: Sat, 08 Aug 15 12:42:49 +0530 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Second-syllable rhyme in Dravidian Message-ID: . echo reduplication is not specific to Dravidian. It is found in Hindi, Marathi, Punjabi and many other north Indian languages too. In an article on "Reduplication and echo words in Hindi/Urdu", https://hal.archives-ouvertes.fr/halshs-00449691/document Annie Montaut, Inalco, Paris says, "Reduplication is a pan-Indian phenomenon regularly quoted as one of the dozen features accounting for the consistency of the South Asian linguistic area " citing Massica 1992, Emeneau 1980 in the endnote. In the section dealing with echo reduplication, the author says, "Such a phenomena is omnipresent in all the so-called ?dialects? or regional varieties of Hindi, although it often displays a consonant different from the v- used in Standard Hindi : In Panjabi and Panjabi-ized Hindi for instance sh- is used to derive F? (matlab-shatlab ?signification?, with some of such formations quasi lexicalized (gap-conversation- shap, ?gossiping, talking?) ; in the Pahari (mountain) speeches, h- or ph- is used with the same function (len?n-hen?n, r?s-h?s, ishk-phishk ?love-etc" end note to this says, "Pahari (? mountain?) speeches include mainly Garhwali and Kumaoni. ishk transcribes the native prononciation of ishq. This type of echo is even panindian (Emeneau 1980), with various consonants used for the first consonant in F?, such as g- in Telugu (puli-guli ? flower ?)." -- Prof.Nagaraj Paturi Hyderabad-500044 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From nagarajpaturi at gmail.com Sat Aug 8 07:35:23 2015 From: nagarajpaturi at gmail.com (Nagaraj Paturi) Date: Sat, 08 Aug 15 13:05:23 +0530 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Second-syllable rhyming in Dravidian Message-ID: Features discussed by Jean-Luc Chevillard are treated as varieties of *To?ai *which is seen as Yamakam of Bharata's Natyashastra: http://tamilartsacademy.com/journals/volume17/articles/article5.htm -- Prof.Nagaraj Paturi Hyderabad-500044 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jean-luc.chevillard at univ-paris-diderot.fr Sat Aug 8 08:16:08 2015 From: jean-luc.chevillard at univ-paris-diderot.fr (Jean-Luc Chevillard) Date: Sat, 08 Aug 15 13:46:08 +0530 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Second-syllable rhyme in Dravidian In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <55C5BAC8.7080201@univ-paris-diderot.fr> Dear Professor Nagaraj Paturi, a difficult problem concerning those questions is how far back in time we can go for the various languages concerned. The use of echo-word formation and reduplication may have been on the increase as time moved on ... Both may have been less frequent in the past. I have tried to gather the evidence for the Tamil language of various periods in the following two published articles: ****** 1. ************** "https://halshs.archives-ouvertes.fr/halshs-00671107" (Ideophones in Tamil: Historical observations on the morphology of X-e?al expressives) (17th European Conference on Modern South Asian Studies Heidelberg, 2002) [see for instance the chart on page 7, where I summarize my examination of 613 items taken from MTL and find that: 235 are simple 301 have reduplication 77 have "echo" ****** 2. **************** "https://www.academia.edu/4167141/Ideophones_in_Tamil_a_historical_perspective_on_the_X-enal_expressives_????_?????_???_???_???_Olikku?ippu_???uppa?ai_" ((Ideophones in Tamil: a historical perspective on the X-enal expressives, (?????????????????????? [Olikku?ippu ???uppa?ai]))) (contained in a book which came out in 2004) Best wishes from Pondicherry -- Jean-Luc Chevillard (CNRS) "https://univ-paris-diderot.academia.edu/JeanLucChevillard" "https://plus.google.com/u/0/113653379205101980081/posts/p/pub" "https://twitter.com/JLC1956" On 08/08/2015 12:42, Nagaraj Paturi wrote: > . echo reduplication is not specific to Dravidian. It is found in Hindi, > Marathi, Punjabi and many other north Indian languages too. In an > article on "Reduplication and echo words in Hindi/Urdu", > > https://hal.archives-ouvertes.fr/halshs-00449691/document > > Annie Montaut, Inalco, Paris says, "Reduplication is a pan-Indian > phenomenon regularly quoted as one of the dozen features accounting for > the consistency of the South Asian linguistic area " citing Massica > 1992, Emeneau 1980 in the endnote. > In the section dealing with echo reduplication, the author says, > > "Such a phenomena is omnipresent in all the so-called ?dialects? or > regional varieties of Hindi, although it often displays a consonant > different from the v- used in Standard Hindi : In Panjabi and > Panjabi-ized Hindi for instance sh- is used to derive F? (matlab-shatlab > ?signification?, with some of such formations quasi lexicalized > (gap-conversation- shap, ?gossiping, talking?) ; in the Pahari > (mountain) speeches, h- or ph- is used with the same function > (len?n-hen?n, r?s-h?s, ishk-phishk ?love-etc" > > end note to this says, > > "Pahari (? mountain?) speeches include mainly Garhwali and Kumaoni. ishk > transcribes the native prononciation of ishq. This type of echo is even > panindian (Emeneau 1980), with various consonants used for the first > consonant in F?, such as g- in Telugu (puli-guli ? flower ?)." > > > > -- > Prof.Nagaraj Paturi > Hyderabad-500044 > > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) > From jean-luc.chevillard at univ-paris-diderot.fr Sat Aug 8 08:46:29 2015 From: jean-luc.chevillard at univ-paris-diderot.fr (Jean-Luc Chevillard) Date: Sat, 08 Aug 15 14:16:29 +0530 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Second-syllable rhyming in Dravidian In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <55C5C1E5.7070901@univ-paris-diderot.fr> Dear Professor Paturi, are you in agreement with the statements made by Dr R. Nagaswamy? There would be much to say about the topics which he deals with (and espacially on the distinction to be made between what the Tolk?ppiyam says and what the commentators say) but a mailing list is probably not the best place for such an exchange, which might become time-consuming. Therefore I shall not comment further. I feel I have already posted too much today... You might want to have a look at a small article I wrote on the topic of the use of yamaka in one of the hymns of T?v?ram: "https://www.academia.edu/6732111/The_use_of_polysemy_for_word_play_in_ancient_Tamil_literature_and_the_traditional_tools_available_for_dealing_with_it" Best wishes -- Jean-Luc Chevillard (in Pondicherry) "https://univ-paris-diderot.academia.edu/JeanLucChevillard" "https://plus.google.com/u/0/113653379205101980081/posts/p/pub" "https://twitter.com/JLC1956" On 08/08/2015 13:05, Nagaraj Paturi wrote: > > Features discussed by Jean-Luc Chevillard are treated as varieties of > /To?ai /which is seen as Yamakam of Bharata's Natyashastra: > http://tamilartsacademy.com/journals/volume17/articles/article5.htm > > -- > Prof.Nagaraj Paturi > Hyderabad-500044 > > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) > From tatiana.oranskaia at uni-hamburg.de Sat Aug 8 09:28:38 2015 From: tatiana.oranskaia at uni-hamburg.de (tatiana.oranskaia) Date: Sat, 08 Aug 15 11:28:38 +0200 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Second-syllable rhyme in Dravidian In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20150808112838.20143183zl0iepqe@webmail.rrz.uni-hamburg.de> As the issue of reduplications in SA is on the agenda, the book of Anvita Abbi Reduplication in South Asian Languages: An Areal, Typological, and Historical Study, 1992, should not be forgotten. All the best, Tatiana Oranskaia -- Prof. Dr. Tatiana Oranskaia Abteilung f?r Kultur und Geschichte Indiens und Tibets Asien-Afrika-Institut Universit?t Hamburg Alsterterrasse 1, 1. OG re. 20534 Hamburg Tel.: 040 42838 3387/85 Fax: 040 42838 6944 tatiana.oranskaia at uni-hamburg.de Zitat von Nagaraj Paturi : > . echo reduplication is not specific to Dravidian. It is found in Hindi, > Marathi, Punjabi and many other north Indian languages too. In an article > on "Reduplication and echo words in Hindi/Urdu", > > https://hal.archives-ouvertes.fr/halshs-00449691/document > Annie Montaut, Inalco, Paris says, "Reduplication is a pan-Indian > phenomenon regularly quoted as one of the dozen features accounting for the > consistency of the South Asian linguistic area " citing Massica 1992, > Emeneau 1980 in the endnote. > > In the section dealing with echo reduplication, the author says, > > > "Such a phenomena is omnipresent in all the so-called ?dialects? or > regional varieties of Hindi, although it often displays a consonant > different from the v- used in Standard Hindi : In Panjabi and Panjabi-ized > Hindi for instance sh- is used to derive F? (matlab-shatlab > ?signification?, with some of such formations quasi lexicalized > (gap-conversation- shap, ?gossiping, talking?) ; in the Pahari (mountain) > speeches, h- or ph- is used with the same function (len?n-hen?n, r?s-h?s, > ishk-phishk ?love-etc" > > > end note to this says, > > > "Pahari (? mountain?) speeches include mainly Garhwali and Kumaoni. ishk > transcribes the native prononciation of ishq. This type of echo is even > panindian (Emeneau 1980), with various consonants used for the first > consonant in F?, such as g- in Telugu (puli-guli ? flower ?)." > > > > -- > Prof.Nagaraj Paturi > Hyderabad-500044 > From nagarajpaturi at gmail.com Sat Aug 8 11:25:14 2015 From: nagarajpaturi at gmail.com (Nagaraj Paturi) Date: Sat, 08 Aug 15 16:55:14 +0530 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Second-syllable rhyme in Dravidian In-Reply-To: <55C5BAC8.7080201@univ-paris-diderot.fr> Message-ID: True. But the reference quoted by me includes pahari languages of Uttaranchal in the case of which Dravidian influence is less likely. On Sat, Aug 8, 2015 at 1:46 PM, Jean-Luc Chevillard < jean-luc.chevillard at univ-paris-diderot.fr> wrote: > Dear Professor Nagaraj Paturi, > > a difficult problem concerning those questions is how far back in time we > can go for the various languages concerned. > > The use of echo-word formation and reduplication may have been on the > increase as time moved on ... > > Both may have been less frequent in the past. > > I have tried to gather the evidence for the Tamil language of various > periods in the following two published articles: > > ****** > 1. > ************** > "https://halshs.archives-ouvertes.fr/halshs-00671107" > (Ideophones in Tamil: Historical observations on the morphology of X-e?al > expressives) > (17th European Conference on Modern South Asian Studies Heidelberg, 2002) > [see for instance the chart on page 7, > where I summarize my examination of 613 items taken from MTL > and find that: > 235 are simple > 301 have reduplication > 77 have "echo" > > > ****** > 2. > **************** > " > https://www.academia.edu/4167141/Ideophones_in_Tamil_a_historical_perspective_on_the_X-enal_expressives_????_?????_???_???_???_Olikku?ippu_???uppa?ai_ > " > > ((Ideophones in Tamil: a historical perspective on the X-enal expressives, > (?????????????????????? [Olikku?ippu ???uppa?ai]))) > (contained in a book which came out in 2004) > > > Best wishes from Pondicherry > > -- Jean-Luc Chevillard (CNRS) > > > > "https://univ-paris-diderot.academia.edu/JeanLucChevillard" > > "https://plus.google.com/u/0/113653379205101980081/posts/p/pub" > > "https://twitter.com/JLC1956" > > > > > On 08/08/2015 12:42, Nagaraj Paturi wrote: > >> . echo reduplication is not specific to Dravidian. It is found in Hindi, >> Marathi, Punjabi and many other north Indian languages too. In an >> article on "Reduplication and echo words in Hindi/Urdu", >> >> https://hal.archives-ouvertes.fr/halshs-00449691/document >> >> Annie Montaut, Inalco, Paris says, "Reduplication is a pan-Indian >> phenomenon regularly quoted as one of the dozen features accounting for >> the consistency of the South Asian linguistic area " citing Massica >> 1992, Emeneau 1980 in the endnote. >> In the section dealing with echo reduplication, the author says, >> >> "Such a phenomena is omnipresent in all the so-called ?dialects? or >> regional varieties of Hindi, although it often displays a consonant >> different from the v- used in Standard Hindi : In Panjabi and >> Panjabi-ized Hindi for instance sh- is used to derive F? (matlab-shatlab >> ?signification?, with some of such formations quasi lexicalized >> (gap-conversation- shap, ?gossiping, talking?) ; in the Pahari >> (mountain) speeches, h- or ph- is used with the same function >> (len?n-hen?n, r?s-h?s, ishk-phishk ?love-etc" >> >> end note to this says, >> >> "Pahari (? mountain?) speeches include mainly Garhwali and Kumaoni. ishk >> transcribes the native prononciation of ishq. This type of echo is even >> panindian (Emeneau 1980), with various consonants used for the first >> consonant in F?, such as g- in Telugu (puli-guli ? flower ?)." >> >> >> >> -- >> Prof.Nagaraj Paturi >> Hyderabad-500044 >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> INDOLOGY mailing list >> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info >> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing >> committee) >> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or >> unsubscribe) >> >> > -- Prof.Nagaraj Paturi Hyderabad-500044 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From nagarajpaturi at gmail.com Sat Aug 8 11:31:02 2015 From: nagarajpaturi at gmail.com (Nagaraj Paturi) Date: Sat, 08 Aug 15 17:01:02 +0530 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Second-syllable rhyme in Dravidian In-Reply-To: Message-ID: >>a difficult problem concerning those questions is how far back in time we can go for the various languages concerned. The use of echo-word formation and reduplication may have been on the increase as time moved on ... Both may have been less frequent in the past. ------ True. But the reference quoted by me includes pahari languages of Uttaranchal in the case of which Dravidian influence is less likely. On Sat, Aug 8, 2015 at 4:55 PM, Nagaraj Paturi wrote: > True. But the reference quoted by me includes pahari languages of > Uttaranchal in the case of which Dravidian influence is less likely. > > On Sat, Aug 8, 2015 at 1:46 PM, Jean-Luc Chevillard < > jean-luc.chevillard at univ-paris-diderot.fr> wrote: > >> Dear Professor Nagaraj Paturi, >> >> a difficult problem concerning those questions is how far back in time we >> can go for the various languages concerned. >> >> The use of echo-word formation and reduplication may have been on the >> increase as time moved on ... >> >> Both may have been less frequent in the past. >> >> I have tried to gather the evidence for the Tamil language of various >> periods in the following two published articles: >> >> ****** >> 1. >> ************** >> "https://halshs.archives-ouvertes.fr/halshs-00671107" >> (Ideophones in Tamil: Historical observations on the morphology of X-e?al >> expressives) >> (17th European Conference on Modern South Asian Studies Heidelberg, 2002) >> [see for instance the chart on page 7, >> where I summarize my examination of 613 items taken from MTL >> and find that: >> 235 are simple >> 301 have reduplication >> 77 have "echo" >> >> >> ****** >> 2. >> **************** >> " >> https://www.academia.edu/4167141/Ideophones_in_Tamil_a_historical_perspective_on_the_X-enal_expressives_????_?????_???_???_???_Olikku?ippu_???uppa?ai_ >> " >> >> ((Ideophones in Tamil: a historical perspective on the X-enal >> expressives, (?????????????????????? [Olikku?ippu ???uppa?ai]))) >> (contained in a book which came out in 2004) >> >> >> Best wishes from Pondicherry >> >> -- Jean-Luc Chevillard (CNRS) >> >> >> >> "https://univ-paris-diderot.academia.edu/JeanLucChevillard" >> >> "https://plus.google.com/u/0/113653379205101980081/posts/p/pub" >> >> "https://twitter.com/JLC1956" >> >> >> >> >> On 08/08/2015 12:42, Nagaraj Paturi wrote: >> >>> . echo reduplication is not specific to Dravidian. It is found in Hindi, >>> Marathi, Punjabi and many other north Indian languages too. In an >>> article on "Reduplication and echo words in Hindi/Urdu", >>> >>> https://hal.archives-ouvertes.fr/halshs-00449691/document >>> >>> Annie Montaut, Inalco, Paris says, "Reduplication is a pan-Indian >>> phenomenon regularly quoted as one of the dozen features accounting for >>> the consistency of the South Asian linguistic area " citing Massica >>> 1992, Emeneau 1980 in the endnote. >>> In the section dealing with echo reduplication, the author says, >>> >>> "Such a phenomena is omnipresent in all the so-called ?dialects? or >>> regional varieties of Hindi, although it often displays a consonant >>> different from the v- used in Standard Hindi : In Panjabi and >>> Panjabi-ized Hindi for instance sh- is used to derive F? (matlab-shatlab >>> ?signification?, with some of such formations quasi lexicalized >>> (gap-conversation- shap, ?gossiping, talking?) ; in the Pahari >>> (mountain) speeches, h- or ph- is used with the same function >>> (len?n-hen?n, r?s-h?s, ishk-phishk ?love-etc" >>> >>> end note to this says, >>> >>> "Pahari (? mountain?) speeches include mainly Garhwali and Kumaoni. ishk >>> transcribes the native prononciation of ishq. This type of echo is even >>> panindian (Emeneau 1980), with various consonants used for the first >>> consonant in F?, such as g- in Telugu (puli-guli ? flower ?)." >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Prof.Nagaraj Paturi >>> Hyderabad-500044 >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> INDOLOGY mailing list >>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info >>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing >>> committee) >>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options >>> or unsubscribe) >>> >>> >> > > > -- > Prof.Nagaraj Paturi > Hyderabad-500044 > -- Prof.Nagaraj Paturi Hyderabad-500044 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From kevinryan at fas.harvard.edu Sat Aug 8 12:46:25 2015 From: kevinryan at fas.harvard.edu (Kevin M. Ryan) Date: Sat, 08 Aug 15 14:46:25 +0200 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Second-syllable rhyme in Dravidian In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <55C5FA21.1070907@fas.harvard.edu> It's true, echo reduplication (ER) is found widely not only in South Asia but across the world (cf. e.g. Turkish tabak "dish", tabak-mabak "dishes and such"). My point in bringing it up in the context of second-syllable rhyme (SSR) was just that ER (in its specific form reconstructible to Proto-South Dravidian) and SSR (as amply attested in the oldest surviving Dravidian literature) work exactly alike phonologically in that they decouple quantity correspondence (which is required of the initial vowel) from quality correspondence (which is not required of the initial vowel), a property not shared by most ER systems of farther north and elsewhere in the world. I see this specific parallelism in phonology as adding some support to a Dravidian origin of SSR, though like I said, it's only suggestive. The examples of ER from Pahari and Panjabi mentioned in this thread (cited from Annie Montaut's paper) seem to lack this phonological peculiarity: In those cases (as in Turkish, etc.), it appears that the initial vowels correspond completely, i.e., both in quantity and quality. I wouldn't be surprised if certain other northern South Asian languages have come to employ a more Dravidian-like version of ER, given areal convergence, but even if that were the case, it wouldn't speak against a Dravidian origin of the pattern unless it can be traced back at least as far in IA as it can in Dravidian, which seems unlikely. Kevin Ryan From dermot at grevatt.force9.co.uk Sat Aug 8 15:32:16 2015 From: dermot at grevatt.force9.co.uk (dermot at grevatt.force9.co.uk) Date: Sat, 08 Aug 15 16:32:16 +0100 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Second-syllable rhyme in Dravidian In-Reply-To: <20150808112838.20143183zl0iepqe@webmail.rrz.uni-hamburg.de> Message-ID: <55C62100.13893.1A3F52F@dermot.grevatt.force9.co.uk> There's also a bit about it in Jan Gonda's Sanskrit in Indonesia (Nagpur 1952), taking the matter into South-East Asia. I've followed this topic with interest. Dermot Killingley On 8 Aug 2015 at 11:28, tatiana.oranskaia wrote: As the issue of reduplications in SA is on the agenda, the book of Anvita Abbi Reduplication in South Asian Languages: An Areal, Typological, and Historical Study, 1992, should not be forgotten. All the best, Tatiana Oranskaia -- Prof. Dr. Tatiana Oranskaia Abteilung f?r Kultur und Geschichte Indiens und Tibets Asien-Afrika-Institut Universit?t Hamburg Alsterterrasse 1, 1. OG re. 20534 Hamburg Tel.: 040 42838 3387/85 Fax: 040 42838 6944 tatiana.oranskaia at uni-hamburg.de Zitat von Nagaraj Paturi : > . echo reduplication is not specific to Dravidian. It is found in Hindi, > Marathi, Punjabi and many other north Indian languages too. In an article > on "Reduplication and echo words in Hindi/Urdu", > > https://hal.archives-ouvertes.fr/halshs-00449691/document > Annie Montaut, Inalco, Paris says, "Reduplication is a pan-Indian > phenomenon regularly quoted as one of the dozen features accounting for the > consistency of the South Asian linguistic area " citing Massica 1992, > Emeneau 1980 in the endnote. > > In the section dealing with echo reduplication, the author says, > > > "Such a phenomena is omnipresent in all the so-called ?dialects? or > regional varieties of Hindi, although it often displays a consonant > different from the v- used in Standard Hindi : In Panjabi and Panjabi-ized > Hindi for instance sh- is used to derive F? (matlab-shatlab > ?signification?, with some of such formations quasi lexicalized > (gap-conversation- shap, ?gossiping, talking?) ; in the Pahari (mountain) > speeches, h- or ph- is used with the same function (len?n-hen?n, r?s-h?s, > ishk-phishk ?love-etc" > > > end note to this says, > > > "Pahari (? mountain?) speeches include mainly Garhwali and Kumaoni. ishk > transcribes the native prononciation of ishq. This type of echo is even > panindian (Emeneau 1980), with various consonants used for the first > consonant in F?, such as g- in Telugu (puli-guli ? flower ?)." > > > > -- > Prof.Nagaraj Paturi > Hyderabad-500044 > _______________________________________________ INDOLOGY mailing list INDOLOGY at list.indology.info indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) -- Dermot Killingley 9, Rectory Drive, Gosforth, Newcastle upon Tyne NE3 1XT Phone (0191) 285 8053 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From hr at ivs.edu Sun Aug 9 05:00:10 2015 From: hr at ivs.edu (Howard Resnick) Date: Sun, 09 Aug 15 07:00:10 +0200 Subject: [INDOLOGY] reunion Message-ID: <0196F13C-6406-4FBD-812D-4C9CCA93FB6F@ivs.edu> In the Mahabharata?s 14th book, Ashramavasika-parva, chapters 32-33, Vyasa is able to summon all the warriors slain at Kurukshetra, who rise from the Bhagirathi and appear to Dhrtarastra, Gandhari, and all the other survivors and widows of the battle. Do scholars consider this section to be ?old?? Generally, what do they make of it? Any information on scholarly reaction to this amazing episode will be appreciated. Thanks, Howard From H.J.H.Tieken at hum.leidenuniv.nl Sun Aug 9 10:10:21 2015 From: H.J.H.Tieken at hum.leidenuniv.nl (Tieken, H.J.H.) Date: Sun, 09 Aug 15 10:10:21 +0000 Subject: [INDOLOGY] reunion In-Reply-To: <0196F13C-6406-4FBD-812D-4C9CCA93FB6F@ivs.edu> Message-ID: Dear dr Resnick, As you probably know, John Brockington takes the Asvamedhikaparvan in its entirety to be a later addition (The Sanskrit Epics, Leiden 1998, p. 153). In fact, according to him all the following books are later additions as well, or else late as separate books. That is to say, their arrangement into separate books was secondary, and introduced only for the sake of arriving at the number 18 for the total books (id. p. 154). As to your question, I have no answer. That I feel nevertheless obliged to reply is that I written an article on these final books of the Mahabharata, "The Mahabharata after the Great Battle". which appeared in WZKS XLVIII (2004), pp. 5-46). Maybe you find some inspiration in it. Best, Herman Tieken Herman Tieken Stationsweg 58 2515 BP Den Haag The Netherlands 00 31 (0)70 2208127 website: hermantieken.com ________________________________________ Van: INDOLOGY [indology-bounces at list.indology.info] namens Howard Resnick [hr at ivs.edu] Verzonden: zondag 9 augustus 2015 7:00 Aan: Indology List Onderwerp: [INDOLOGY] reunion In the Mahabharata?s 14th book, Ashramavasika-parva, chapters 32-33, Vyasa is able to summon all the warriors slain at Kurukshetra, who rise from the Bhagirathi and appear to Dhrtarastra, Gandhari, and all the other survivors and widows of the battle. Do scholars consider this section to be ?old?? Generally, what do they make of it? Any information on scholarly reaction to this amazing episode will be appreciated. Thanks, Howard _______________________________________________ INDOLOGY mailing list INDOLOGY at list.indology.info indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) From nagarajpaturi at gmail.com Sun Aug 9 10:32:21 2015 From: nagarajpaturi at gmail.com (Nagaraj Paturi) Date: Sun, 09 Aug 15 16:02:21 +0530 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Second-syllable rhyming in Dravidian Message-ID: >>My point in bringing it up in the context of second-syllable rhyme (SSR) was just that ER (in its specific form reconstructible to Proto-SouthDravidian) and SSR (as amply attested in the oldest surviving Dravidian literature) *work exactly alike phonologically in that they decouple **quantity correspondence (which is required of the initial vowel) from **quality correspondence (which is not required of the initial vowel),* a property not shared by most ER systems of farther north and elsewhere in the world. I see this specific parallelism in phonology as adding somesupport to a Dravidian origin of SSR, though like I said, it's only suggestive. Can you please elaborate 'decoupling' mentioned by you with examples ? quantity correspondence : long vowel to long vowel , short vowel to short vowel; required of the initial vowel. quality correspondence : glottal may correspond with palatal pATa -gITa ; puli -gili ; (Telugu) 'A' to 'I' quantity correspondence but no quality correspondence. u to i quantity correspondence but no quality correspondence khAnA -vAnA; pEn-vEn; (Hindi) A to A , E to E both quantity and quality correspondences. Is this what you are pointing at? 1. SSR and ER of Dravidian while sharing some similarities as pointed out by you, have many dissimilarities too. ER has the same consonant as the initial consonant in the reduplicate string always for a given language. 'g' for Telugu and 'v' for Hindi for example. SSR does not have this feature. The initial consonant of the rhyming second half may differ from case to case. 2. Semantic and/or semiotic significance is identified for the initial consonant in the reduplicate string, in certain idiomatic usages of the ER. for example, communication of the pejorative or angry mood discussed in http://www.unige.ch/lettres/latl/chronos/grohmann&Nevins.pdf for English seems to hold good for Telugu, Kannada, Hindi and Punjabi too. SSR does not have such a specific mood communication associated with it though it is considered to be auditorily ornamenting to the poetic expression. 3. SSR can be considered to be a tool of oral tradition, a memorising tool for orally preserved verbal forms. ER does not have this function. ER is part of speech pragmatics of day to day communication but not a structural feature of verbal forms. SSR is a structural feature of verbal forms. 4. For a Dravidian '*origin*' of SSR to be considered the following are the hurdles: a. SSR of Dravidian verse and lyrical meters is intra-line and the SSR of Sanskrit meters either as used in languages of the south or in cases such as gOpIgItam of Sanskrit, is inter-line. b. In intra-line situation, the two parts of the line with an SSR are very short and the rhyming occurs within a short gap after the first occurrence. In the case of inter-line of SSR in Sanskrit meters such as S'ArdUlavikrIDita, the rhyming occurs after a very long gap after the first occurence. This difference has implications for the difference function and effects of SSR in the two situations:inter-line and intra-line. c. SSR of Dravidian verse-meters is seen in relation to FSR, as an alternative to FSR, at least in native Telugu verse meters. The inter-line SSR of Sanskrit meters is not related to FSR. -- Prof.Nagaraj Paturi Hyderabad-500044 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From hr at ivs.edu Sun Aug 9 11:18:03 2015 From: hr at ivs.edu (Howard Resnick) Date: Sun, 09 Aug 15 13:18:03 +0200 Subject: [INDOLOGY] reunion In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Thank you for this very useful information. Would have a link or pdf for your article? Thanks again! Howard > On Aug 9, 2015, at 12:10 PM, Tieken, H.J.H. wrote: > > Dear dr Resnick, > As you probably know, John Brockington takes the Asvamedhikaparvan in its entirety to be a later addition (The Sanskrit Epics, Leiden 1998, p. 153). In fact, according to him all the following books are later additions as well, or else late as separate books. That is to say, their arrangement into separate books was secondary, and introduced only for the sake of arriving at the number 18 for the total books (id. p. 154). > As to your question, I have no answer. That I feel nevertheless obliged to reply is that I written an article on these final books of the Mahabharata, "The Mahabharata after the Great Battle". which appeared in WZKS XLVIII (2004), pp. 5-46). Maybe you find some inspiration in it. > Best, Herman Tieken > > Herman Tieken > Stationsweg 58 > 2515 BP Den Haag > The Netherlands > 00 31 (0)70 2208127 > website: hermantieken.com > > ________________________________________ > Van: INDOLOGY [indology-bounces at list.indology.info] namens Howard Resnick [hr at ivs.edu] > Verzonden: zondag 9 augustus 2015 7:00 > Aan: Indology List > Onderwerp: [INDOLOGY] reunion > > In the Mahabharata?s 14th book, Ashramavasika-parva, chapters 32-33, Vyasa is able to summon all the warriors slain at Kurukshetra, who rise from the Bhagirathi and appear to Dhrtarastra, Gandhari, and all the other survivors and widows of the battle. > > Do scholars consider this section to be ?old?? Generally, what do they make of it? Any information on scholarly reaction to this amazing episode will be appreciated. > > Thanks, > Howard > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) > > From jean-luc.chevillard at univ-paris-diderot.fr Sun Aug 9 11:20:19 2015 From: jean-luc.chevillard at univ-paris-diderot.fr (Jean-Luc Chevillard) Date: Sun, 09 Aug 15 16:50:19 +0530 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Second-syllable rhyming in Dravidian In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <55C73773.4030601@univ-paris-diderot.fr> Dear Professor Paturi, This is not true! SSR seems to happen frequently as "inter-line" in Ancient Tamil literature. I believe "intra-line" SSR is less frequent See the characterizations (taken from the Tolk?ppiyam), which I gave yesterday in: "http://list.indology.info/pipermail/indology_list.indology.info/2015-August/041916.html" See also for instance, this nice example from the Tolk?ppiyam's characterization of the "verb" (vi?ai). TC195i vi?aiye?ap pa?uvatu v???umai ko???tu ni?aiyu? k?laik k?lamo?u t???um. We have etukai between "vi?ai" and "ni?aiyum", which are both at the beginning of a line (I could provide similar examples if you are not convinced ...) Part of the problem lies in the fact that, people tend to view the rules of ancient Tamil literature through the lenses of medieval treatises such as the Y?pparu?kalam and Y?pparu?kalak k?rikai (which provide a very rich terminology for many marginal examples of intra-line SSR) If you can provde massive evidence from ancient Tamil literature in order to support your statement, please do Your with every good wish -- Jean-Luc Chevillard (CNRS) "https://univ-paris-diderot.academia.edu/JeanLucChevillard" "https://plus.google.com/u/0/113653379205101980081/posts/p/pub" "https://twitter.com/JLC1956" On 09/08/2015 16:02, Nagaraj Paturi wrote: > a. SSR of Dravidian verse and lyrical meters is intra-line and the SSR > of Sanskrit meters either as used in languages of the south or in cases > such as gOpIgItam of Sanskrit, is inter-line. From nagarajpaturi at gmail.com Sun Aug 9 12:32:13 2015 From: nagarajpaturi at gmail.com (Nagaraj Paturi) Date: Sun, 09 Aug 15 18:02:13 +0530 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Second-syllable rhyming in Dravidian In-Reply-To: <55C73773.4030601@univ-paris-diderot.fr> Message-ID: Dear Dr Jean- Luc Chevillard, Your "This is not true!" probably is to my >4. For a Dravidian '*origin*' of SSR to be considered the following are the hurdles: >a. SSR of Dravidian verse and lyrical meters is intra-line and the SSR of Sanskrit meters either as used in languages of the south or in cases such as gOpIgItam of >Sanskrit, is inter-line. Thanks for the examples of inter-line SSR from tolkAppiyam. Does your > If you can provde massive evidence from ancient Tamil literature in order to support your statement, please do refer to my > SSR of Dravidian verse and lyrical meters is intra-line ? Your position with regard to this is >I believe "intra-line" SSR is less frequent So you are asking me to provide me to provide massive number of examples for intra-line SSR from ancient Tamil literature. Did I get you right? -No. I am not in a position right now to provide massive number of examples for intra-line SSR from ancient Tamil literature. I need time to browse through the corpus I have to see if this is true with ancient Tamil literature. All that I can tell you readily with authenticity is that in Telugu, which is one of the Dravidian languages, intra-line SSR is part of the rules of all the native verse meters but as an alternative to intra-line FSR. The rule of line-break is based on feet count unlike the syllable count in Sanskrit meters. Since it is part of rule, naturally there are massive number of examples in Telugu for intra-line SSR , spread all over the Telugu verse literature employing native Telugu meters. Sri Sudalaimuthu Palaniappan in http://list.indology.info/pipermail/indology_list.indology.info/2015-July/041805.html says, The second syllable rhyme can also occur within a line in different patterns. Assuming there are are four feet in a line, the second-syllable rhyming can occur in different patterns such as between feet 1 and 2; 1 and 3; 1 and 4; 1, 2, and 3; 1, 3, and 4; 1, 2, and 4; and 1, 2, 3, and 4. So the Tamil situation is similar to Telugu at least in so far as 'The rule of line-break is based on feet count unlike the syllable count in Sanskrit meters'. If inter-line SSR is so massive in ancient Tamil literature, origin of the inter-line SSR in Sanskrit borrowed Telugu verse meters can probably be traced to an older Dravidian situation. That becoming a strict rule for Sanskrit borrowed Telugu verse meters could be specific to Telugu prosody. If inter-line SSR in ancient Tamil lyrical literature is proved to be a regular lyrical meter device, the gOpIgItam's SSR can safely get connected to a Tamil or Dravidian origin. Quantity rules are rigidly ingrained in Sanskrit meters; so one may explain the quantity correspondence of initial vowel in the SSR of gOpIgItam in terms of the rigidly ingrained vowel quantity pattern rules in Sanskrit meters. That is another problem area in the topic. On Sun, Aug 9, 2015 at 4:50 PM, Jean-Luc Chevillard < jean-luc.chevillard at univ-paris-diderot.fr> wrote: > Dear Professor Paturi, > > This is not true! > > SSR seems to happen frequently as "inter-line" in Ancient Tamil literature. > > I believe "intra-line" SSR is less frequent > > See the characterizations (taken from the Tolk?ppiyam), which I gave > yesterday in: > > " > http://list.indology.info/pipermail/indology_list.indology.info/2015-August/041916.html > " > > See also for instance, this nice example from the Tolk?ppiyam's > characterization of the "verb" (vi?ai). > > TC195i > vi?aiye?ap pa?uvatu v???umai ko???tu > ni?aiyu? k?laik k?lamo?u t???um. > > We have etukai between "vi?ai" and "ni?aiyum", which are both at the > beginning of a line > > (I could provide similar examples if you are not convinced ...) > > Part of the problem lies in the fact that, people tend to view the rules > of ancient Tamil literature through the lenses of medieval treatises such > as the Y?pparu?kalam and Y?pparu?kalak k?rikai > (which provide a very rich terminology for many marginal examples of > intra-line SSR) > > > If you can provde massive evidence from ancient Tamil literature in order > to support your statement, please do > > Your with every good wish > > > -- Jean-Luc Chevillard (CNRS) > > > > "https://univ-paris-diderot.academia.edu/JeanLucChevillard" > > "https://plus.google.com/u/0/113653379205101980081/posts/p/pub" > > "https://twitter.com/JLC1956" > > > > On 09/08/2015 16:02, Nagaraj Paturi wrote: > >> a. SSR of Dravidian verse and lyrical meters is intra-line and the SSR >> of Sanskrit meters either as used in languages of the south or in cases >> such as gOpIgItam of Sanskrit, is inter-line. >> > > -- Prof.Nagaraj Paturi Hyderabad-500044 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jean-luc.chevillard at univ-paris-diderot.fr Sun Aug 9 13:00:41 2015 From: jean-luc.chevillard at univ-paris-diderot.fr (Jean-Luc Chevillard) Date: Sun, 09 Aug 15 18:30:41 +0530 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Second-syllable rhyming in Dravidian In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <55C74EF9.4070609@univ-paris-diderot.fr> Dear Professor Paturi, briefly (1) the "is not true" predicate applied to the portion of your message which I quoted in my message. (2) thanks for confirming that you cannot provide "massive evidence" from Tamil literature (3) I am certainly VERY interested in learning more about Telugu meters and obtaining authentic information from you on that topic. If the forum has had enough concerning metrics (which some people consider as a dry subject ;-), we can also have private exchanges about the topic ... (4) I also had the earlier statement by S. Palaniappan in mind when I was referring to the lenses provided by Y?pparu?kalam and Y?pparu?kalak k?rikai and you might remember that I immediately commented on his message and tried to suggest that Indira Peterson may have referred to the more frequent usage I believe I should not post more today :-) Yours with every good wish -- Jean-Luc Chevillard (CNRS) (in Pondicherry) "https://univ-paris-diderot.academia.edu/JeanLucChevillard" "https://plus.google.com/u/0/113653379205101980081/posts/p/pub" "https://twitter.com/JLC1956" On 09/08/2015 18:02, Nagaraj Paturi wrote: > Dear Dr Jean- Luc Chevillard, > > Your "This is not true!" probably is to my > > >4. For a Dravidian '*origin*' of SSR to be considered the following are the hurdles: > > >a. SSR of Dravidian verse and lyrical meters is intra-line and the SSR of Sanskrit meters either as used in languages of the south or in cases such as gOpIgItam of >Sanskrit, is inter-line. > > Thanks for the examples of inter-line SSR from tolkAppiyam. > > Does your > > > If you can provde massive evidence from ancient Tamil literature > in order to support your statement, please do > > refer to my > > > >SSR of Dravidian verse and lyrical meters is intra-line ? > > Your position with regard to this is > > >I believe "intra-line" SSR is less frequent > > So you are asking me to provide me to provide massive number of examples > for intra-line SSR from ancient Tamil literature. Did I get you right? > > -No. I am not in a position right now to provide massive number of > examples for intra-line SSR from ancient Tamil literature. I need time > to browse through the corpus I have to see if this is true with ancient > Tamil literature. > > All that I can tell you readily with authenticity is that in Telugu, > which is one of the Dravidian languages, intra-line SSR is part of the > rules of all the native verse meters but as an alternative to intra-line > FSR. The rule of line-break is based on feet count unlike the syllable > count in Sanskrit meters. Since it is part of rule, naturally there are > massive number of examples in Telugu for intra-line SSR , spread all > over the Telugu verse literature employing native Telugu meters. > > Sri Sudalaimuthu Palaniappan in > > http://list.indology.info/pipermail/indology_list.indology.info/2015-July/041805.html > > says, > > The second syllable rhyme can also occur within a line in different > patterns. Assuming there are are four feet in a line, the > second-syllable rhyming can occur in different patterns such as between > feet 1 and 2; 1 and 3; 1 and 4; 1, 2, and 3; 1, 3, and 4; 1, 2, and 4; > and 1, 2, 3, and 4. > > So the Tamil situation is similar to Telugu at least in so far as 'The > rule of line-break is based on feet count unlike the syllable count in > Sanskrit meters'. > > If inter-line SSR is so massive in ancient Tamil literature, origin of > the inter-line SSR in Sanskrit borrowed Telugu verse meters can probably > be traced to an older Dravidian situation. That becoming a strict rule > for Sanskrit borrowed Telugu verse meters could be specific to Telugu > prosody. > > If inter-line SSR in ancient Tamil lyrical literature is proved to be a > regular lyrical meter device, the gOpIgItam's SSR can safely get > connected to a Tamil or Dravidian origin. > > Quantity rules are rigidly ingrained in Sanskrit meters; so one may > explain the quantity correspondence of initial vowel in the SSR of > gOpIgItam in terms of the rigidly ingrained vowel quantity pattern rules > in Sanskrit meters. That is another problem area in the topic. > > > > > > > > On Sun, Aug 9, 2015 at 4:50 PM, Jean-Luc Chevillard > > wrote: > > Dear Professor Paturi, > > This is not true! > > SSR seems to happen frequently as "inter-line" in Ancient Tamil > literature. > > I believe "intra-line" SSR is less frequent > > See the characterizations (taken from the Tolk?ppiyam), which I gave > yesterday in: > > "http://list.indology.info/pipermail/indology_list.indology.info/2015-August/041916.html" > > See also for instance, this nice example from the Tolk?ppiyam's > characterization of the "verb" (vi?ai). > > TC195i > vi?aiye?ap pa?uvatu v???umai ko???tu > ni?aiyu? k?laik k?lamo?u t???um. > > We have etukai between "vi?ai" and "ni?aiyum", which are both at the > beginning of a line > > (I could provide similar examples if you are not convinced ...) > > Part of the problem lies in the fact that, people tend to view the > rules of ancient Tamil literature through the lenses of medieval > treatises such as the Y?pparu?kalam and Y?pparu?kalak k?rikai > (which provide a very rich terminology for many marginal examples of > intra-line SSR) > > > If you can provde massive evidence from ancient Tamil literature in > order to support your statement, please do > > Your with every good wish > > > -- Jean-Luc Chevillard (CNRS) > > > > "https://univ-paris-diderot.academia.edu/JeanLucChevillard" > > "https://plus.google.com/u/0/113653379205101980081/posts/p/pub" > > "https://twitter.com/JLC1956" > > > > On 09/08/2015 16:02, Nagaraj Paturi wrote: > > a. SSR of Dravidian verse and lyrical meters is intra-line and > the SSR > of Sanskrit meters either as used in languages of the south or > in cases > such as gOpIgItam of Sanskrit, is inter-line. > > > > > > -- > Prof.Nagaraj Paturi > Hyderabad-500044 From nagarajpaturi at gmail.com Sun Aug 9 13:16:42 2015 From: nagarajpaturi at gmail.com (Nagaraj Paturi) Date: Sun, 09 Aug 15 18:46:42 +0530 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Second-syllable rhyming in Dravidian In-Reply-To: <55C74EF9.4070609@univ-paris-diderot.fr> Message-ID: Looking forward for your pointers to massive evidences. On Sun, Aug 9, 2015 at 6:30 PM, Jean-Luc Chevillard < jean-luc.chevillard at univ-paris-diderot.fr> wrote: > Dear Professor Paturi, > > briefly > > (1) the "is not true" predicate applied to the portion of your message > which I quoted in my message. > > (2) thanks for confirming that you cannot provide "massive evidence" from > Tamil literature > > (3) I am certainly VERY interested in learning more about Telugu meters > and obtaining authentic information from you on that topic. If the forum > has had enough concerning metrics (which some people consider as a dry > subject ;-), we can also have private exchanges about the topic ... > > (4) I also had the earlier statement by S. Palaniappan in mind when I was > referring to the lenses provided by Y?pparu?kalam and Y?pparu?kalak k?rikai > and you might remember that I immediately commented on his message and > tried to suggest that Indira Peterson may have referred to the more > frequent usage > > I believe I should not post more today :-) > > Yours with every good wish > > -- Jean-Luc Chevillard (CNRS) (in Pondicherry) > > > "https://univ-paris-diderot.academia.edu/JeanLucChevillard" > > "https://plus.google.com/u/0/113653379205101980081/posts/p/pub" > > "https://twitter.com/JLC1956" > > > > > On 09/08/2015 18:02, Nagaraj Paturi wrote: > >> Dear Dr Jean- Luc Chevillard, >> >> Your "This is not true!" probably is to my >> >> >4. For a Dravidian '*origin*' of SSR to be considered the following >> are the hurdles: >> >> >> >a. SSR of Dravidian verse and lyrical meters is intra-line and the >> SSR of Sanskrit meters either as used in languages of the south or in cases >> such as gOpIgItam of >Sanskrit, is inter-line. >> >> Thanks for the examples of inter-line SSR from tolkAppiyam. >> >> Does your >> >> > If you can provde massive evidence from ancient Tamil literature >> in order to support your statement, please do >> >> refer to my >> >> >> >SSR of Dravidian verse and lyrical meters is intra-line ? >> >> Your position with regard to this is >> >> >I believe "intra-line" SSR is less frequent >> >> So you are asking me to provide me to provide massive number of examples >> for intra-line SSR from ancient Tamil literature. Did I get you right? >> >> -No. I am not in a position right now to provide massive number of >> examples for intra-line SSR from ancient Tamil literature. I need time >> to browse through the corpus I have to see if this is true with ancient >> Tamil literature. >> >> All that I can tell you readily with authenticity is that in Telugu, >> which is one of the Dravidian languages, intra-line SSR is part of the >> rules of all the native verse meters but as an alternative to intra-line >> FSR. The rule of line-break is based on feet count unlike the syllable >> count in Sanskrit meters. Since it is part of rule, naturally there are >> massive number of examples in Telugu for intra-line SSR , spread all >> over the Telugu verse literature employing native Telugu meters. >> >> Sri Sudalaimuthu Palaniappan in >> >> >> http://list.indology.info/pipermail/indology_list.indology.info/2015-July/041805.html >> >> says, >> >> The second syllable rhyme can also occur within a line in different >> patterns. Assuming there are are four feet in a line, the >> second-syllable rhyming can occur in different patterns such as between >> feet 1 and 2; 1 and 3; 1 and 4; 1, 2, and 3; 1, 3, and 4; 1, 2, and 4; >> and 1, 2, 3, and 4. >> >> So the Tamil situation is similar to Telugu at least in so far as 'The >> rule of line-break is based on feet count unlike the syllable count in >> Sanskrit meters'. >> >> If inter-line SSR is so massive in ancient Tamil literature, origin of >> the inter-line SSR in Sanskrit borrowed Telugu verse meters can probably >> be traced to an older Dravidian situation. That becoming a strict rule >> for Sanskrit borrowed Telugu verse meters could be specific to Telugu >> prosody. >> >> If inter-line SSR in ancient Tamil lyrical literature is proved to be a >> regular lyrical meter device, the gOpIgItam's SSR can safely get >> connected to a Tamil or Dravidian origin. >> >> Quantity rules are rigidly ingrained in Sanskrit meters; so one may >> explain the quantity correspondence of initial vowel in the SSR of >> gOpIgItam in terms of the rigidly ingrained vowel quantity pattern rules >> in Sanskrit meters. That is another problem area in the topic. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> On Sun, Aug 9, 2015 at 4:50 PM, Jean-Luc Chevillard >> > > wrote: >> >> Dear Professor Paturi, >> >> This is not true! >> >> SSR seems to happen frequently as "inter-line" in Ancient Tamil >> literature. >> >> I believe "intra-line" SSR is less frequent >> >> See the characterizations (taken from the Tolk?ppiyam), which I gave >> yesterday in: >> >> " >> http://list.indology.info/pipermail/indology_list.indology.info/2015-August/041916.html >> " >> >> See also for instance, this nice example from the Tolk?ppiyam's >> characterization of the "verb" (vi?ai). >> >> TC195i >> vi?aiye?ap pa?uvatu v???umai ko???tu >> ni?aiyu? k?laik k?lamo?u t???um. >> >> We have etukai between "vi?ai" and "ni?aiyum", which are both at the >> beginning of a line >> >> (I could provide similar examples if you are not convinced ...) >> >> Part of the problem lies in the fact that, people tend to view the >> rules of ancient Tamil literature through the lenses of medieval >> treatises such as the Y?pparu?kalam and Y?pparu?kalak k?rikai >> (which provide a very rich terminology for many marginal examples of >> intra-line SSR) >> >> >> If you can provde massive evidence from ancient Tamil literature in >> order to support your statement, please do >> >> Your with every good wish >> >> >> -- Jean-Luc Chevillard (CNRS) >> >> >> >> "https://univ-paris-diderot.academia.edu/JeanLucChevillard" >> >> "https://plus.google.com/u/0/113653379205101980081/posts/p/pub" >> >> "https://twitter.com/JLC1956" >> >> >> >> On 09/08/2015 16:02, Nagaraj Paturi wrote: >> >> a. SSR of Dravidian verse and lyrical meters is intra-line and >> the SSR >> of Sanskrit meters either as used in languages of the south or >> in cases >> such as gOpIgItam of Sanskrit, is inter-line. >> >> >> >> >> >> -- >> Prof.Nagaraj Paturi >> Hyderabad-500044 >> > > -- Prof.Nagaraj Paturi Hyderabad-500044 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mailmealakendudas at rediffmail.com Sun Aug 9 13:17:03 2015 From: mailmealakendudas at rediffmail.com (alakendu das) Date: Sun, 09 Aug 15 13:17:03 +0000 Subject: [INDOLOGY] (no subject) Message-ID: <20150809131703.28224.qmail@f4mail-235-225.rediffmail.com> Sir, I have been interacting in Indology list for the last few years. However,of late,I find that my mails are reaching the receipents but i am not getting the feedback. which I was getting a few weeks back. I would like to know whether It is technical snag or if I am running short of complying with some formalities ? ALAKENDU DAS -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From glhart at berkeley.edu Sun Aug 9 14:29:44 2015 From: glhart at berkeley.edu (George Hart) Date: Sun, 09 Aug 15 07:29:44 -0700 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Second-syllable rhyming in Dravidian In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <097022D5-0AE5-44BE-B94E-AED6D6D47E08@berkeley.edu> It was remarked a while ago that interline SSR appears to be a proto-south-Dravidian feature. Since Telugu is a central Dravidian language (though some dispute that), it may be that interline SSR was not a part of its inheritance. Perhaps intraline SSR goes back to an earlier time than protoSDR, as it is found in South Dravidian languages as well as Telugu. George Hart > On Aug 9, 2015, at 5:32 AM, Nagaraj Paturi wrote: > > Dear Dr Jean- Luc Chevillard, > > Your "This is not true!" probably is to my > > >4. For a Dravidian 'origin' of SSR to be considered the following are the hurdles: > > >a. SSR of Dravidian verse and lyrical meters is intra-line and the SSR of Sanskrit meters either as used in languages of the south or in cases such as gOpIgItam of >Sanskrit, is inter-line. > Thanks for the examples of inter-line SSR from tolkAppiyam. > > Does your > > > If you can provde massive evidence from ancient Tamil literature in order to support your statement, please do > refer to my > > > > SSR of Dravidian verse and lyrical meters is intra-line ? > > Your position with regard to this is > > >I believe "intra-line" SSR is less frequent > > So you are asking me to provide me to provide massive number of examples for intra-line SSR from ancient Tamil literature. Did I get you right? > > -No. I am not in a position right now to provide massive number of examples for intra-line SSR from ancient Tamil literature. I need time to browse through the corpus I have to see if this is true with ancient Tamil literature. > > All that I can tell you readily with authenticity is that in Telugu, which is one of the Dravidian languages, intra-line SSR is part of the rules of all the native verse meters but as an alternative to intra-line FSR. The rule of line-break is based on feet count unlike the syllable count in Sanskrit meters. Since it is part of rule, naturally there are massive number of examples in Telugu for intra-line SSR , spread all over the Telugu verse literature employing native Telugu meters. > > Sri Sudalaimuthu Palaniappan in > > http://list.indology.info/pipermail/indology_list.indology.info/2015-July/041805.html > > says, > > The second syllable rhyme can also occur within a line in different patterns. Assuming there are are four feet in a line, the second-syllable rhyming can occur in different patterns such as between feet 1 and 2; 1 and 3; 1 and 4; 1, 2, and 3; 1, 3, and 4; 1, 2, and 4; and 1, 2, 3, and 4. > > So the Tamil situation is similar to Telugu at least in so far as 'The rule of line-break is based on feet count unlike the syllable count in Sanskrit meters'. > > If inter-line SSR is so massive in ancient Tamil literature, origin of the inter-line SSR in Sanskrit borrowed Telugu verse meters can probably be traced to an older Dravidian situation. That becoming a strict rule for Sanskrit borrowed Telugu verse meters could be specific to Telugu prosody. > > If inter-line SSR in ancient Tamil lyrical literature is proved to be a regular lyrical meter device, the gOpIgItam's SSR can safely get connected to a Tamil or Dravidian origin. > > Quantity rules are rigidly ingrained in Sanskrit meters; so one may explain the quantity correspondence of initial vowel in the SSR of gOpIgItam in terms of the rigidly ingrained vowel quantity pattern rules in Sanskrit meters. That is another problem area in the topic. > > > > > > > On Sun, Aug 9, 2015 at 4:50 PM, Jean-Luc Chevillard > wrote: > Dear Professor Paturi, > > This is not true! > > SSR seems to happen frequently as "inter-line" in Ancient Tamil literature. > > I believe "intra-line" SSR is less frequent > > See the characterizations (taken from the Tolk?ppiyam), which I gave yesterday in: > > "http://list.indology.info/pipermail/indology_list.indology.info/2015-August/041916.html " > > See also for instance, this nice example from the Tolk?ppiyam's characterization of the "verb" (vi?ai). > > TC195i > vi?aiye?ap pa?uvatu v???umai ko???tu > ni?aiyu? k?laik k?lamo?u t???um. > > We have etukai between "vi?ai" and "ni?aiyum", which are both at the beginning of a line > > (I could provide similar examples if you are not convinced ...) > > Part of the problem lies in the fact that, people tend to view the rules of ancient Tamil literature through the lenses of medieval treatises such as the Y?pparu?kalam and Y?pparu?kalak k?rikai > (which provide a very rich terminology for many marginal examples of intra-line SSR) > > > If you can provde massive evidence from ancient Tamil literature in order to support your statement, please do > > Your with every good wish > > > -- Jean-Luc Chevillard (CNRS) > > > > "https://univ-paris-diderot.academia.edu/JeanLucChevillard " > > "https://plus.google.com/u/0/113653379205101980081/posts/p/pub " > > "https://twitter.com/JLC1956 " > > > > On 09/08/2015 16:02, Nagaraj Paturi wrote: > a. SSR of Dravidian verse and lyrical meters is intra-line and the SSR > of Sanskrit meters either as used in languages of the south or in cases > such as gOpIgItam of Sanskrit, is inter-line. > > > > > -- > Prof.Nagaraj Paturi > Hyderabad-500044 > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jean-luc.chevillard at univ-paris-diderot.fr Sun Aug 9 14:34:45 2015 From: jean-luc.chevillard at univ-paris-diderot.fr (Jean-Luc Chevillard) Date: Sun, 09 Aug 15 20:04:45 +0530 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Second-syllable rhyming in Dravidian In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <55C76505.50704@univ-paris-diderot.fr> Dear Professor Paturi, I did not promise to send "massive evidence" to the list :-) What I look forward to is exchanging information with you on a private basis :-) As a (hopefully) final post, let me just say that after reading your message, I opened at random the anthology called /Pu?a?????u/ (with which I am sure you are familiar) and had a look at the following poems: Pu?am 90 (a 13-line poem, starting with "u?aiva?ai ka?uppa ...") Pu?am 86 (a 6-line poem, starting with "ci??il na???? ...") Pu?am 83 (a 6-line poem, starting with "a?ipu?ai to?uka?al ...") A typical line (i.e. /a?i/) in those poems possesses four /c?r/-s (i.e. "metrical feet"), which we can call 1a, 1b, 1c & 1d (for the 1st line), 2a, 2b, 2c &2d (for the 2nd line), etc. In those three poems, you can easily verify, by consulting an edition, that we have ********************** inter-line SSR (alias /etukai/) in poem 90, between 1a and 2a, between 4a and 5a, between 8a and 9a, (consonant only) between 10a and 11a, between 12a and 13a, in poem 86, between 5a and 6a, NB: there is also full repetion between 2a and 3a, which is more than /etukai/, in poem 83, between 5a and 6a, ********************** intra-line SSR (alias /etukai/) in poem 86, between 1a and 1c, ******************* combination of inter-line and intra-line SSR in poem 83 between 1a, 1b, 2a, 2b and possibly 3a (NB the etukai is stronger between 1a and 2a, as you will see in the text) All of this is of course irregular, if we compare it with later (bhakti) poetry where inter-line /etukai/ is somehow compulsory Best wishes and aurevoir -- Jean-Luc Chevillard (preparing for the start of the 13th CTSS, TOMORROW ["http://www.efeo.fr/base.php?code=853"] in Pondicherry) "https://univ-paris-diderot.academia.edu/JeanLucChevillard" "https://plus.google.com/u/0/113653379205101980081/posts/p/pub" "https://twitter.com/JLC1956" On 09/08/2015 18:46, Nagaraj Paturi wrote: > Looking forward for your pointers to massive evidences. > > On Sun, Aug 9, 2015 at 6:30 PM, Jean-Luc Chevillard > > wrote: > > Dear Professor Paturi, > > briefly > > (1) the "is not true" predicate applied to the portion of your > message which I quoted in my message. > > (2) thanks for confirming that you cannot provide "massive evidence" > from Tamil literature > > (3) I am certainly VERY interested in learning more about Telugu > meters and obtaining authentic information from you on that topic. > If the forum has had enough concerning metrics (which some people > consider as a dry subject ;-), we can also have private exchanges > about the topic ... > > (4) I also had the earlier statement by S. Palaniappan in mind when > I was referring to the lenses provided by Y?pparu?kalam and > Y?pparu?kalak k?rikai and you might remember that I immediately > commented on his message and tried to suggest that Indira Peterson > may have referred to the more frequent usage > > I believe I should not post more today :-) > > Yours with every good wish > > -- Jean-Luc Chevillard (CNRS) (in Pondicherry) > > > "https://univ-paris-diderot.academia.edu/JeanLucChevillard" > > "https://plus.google.com/u/0/113653379205101980081/posts/p/pub" > > "https://twitter.com/JLC1956" > > > > > On 09/08/2015 18:02, Nagaraj Paturi wrote: > > Dear Dr Jean- Luc Chevillard, > > Your "This is not true!" probably is to my > > >4. For a Dravidian '*origin*' of SSR to be considered the > following are the hurdles: > > > >a. SSR of Dravidian verse and lyrical meters is intra-line > and the SSR of Sanskrit meters either as used in languages of > the south or in cases such as gOpIgItam of >Sanskrit, is > inter-line. > > Thanks for the examples of inter-line SSR from tolkAppiyam. > > Does your > > > If you can provde massive evidence from ancient Tamil > literature > in order to support your statement, please do > > refer to my > > > >SSR of Dravidian verse and lyrical meters is intra-line ? > > Your position with regard to this is > > >I believe "intra-line" SSR is less frequent > > So you are asking me to provide me to provide massive number of > examples > for intra-line SSR from ancient Tamil literature. Did I get you > right? > > -No. I am not in a position right now to provide massive number of > examples for intra-line SSR from ancient Tamil literature. I > need time > to browse through the corpus I have to see if this is true with > ancient > Tamil literature. > > All that I can tell you readily with authenticity is that in Telugu, > which is one of the Dravidian languages, intra-line SSR is part > of the > rules of all the native verse meters but as an alternative to > intra-line > FSR. The rule of line-break is based on feet count unlike the > syllable > count in Sanskrit meters. Since it is part of rule, naturally > there are > massive number of examples in Telugu for intra-line SSR , spread all > over the Telugu verse literature employing native Telugu meters. > > Sri Sudalaimuthu Palaniappan in > > http://list.indology.info/pipermail/indology_list.indology.info/2015-July/041805.html > > says, > > The second syllable rhyme can also occur within a line in different > patterns. Assuming there are are four feet in a line, the > second-syllable rhyming can occur in different patterns such as > between > feet 1 and 2; 1 and 3; 1 and 4; 1, 2, and 3; 1, 3, and 4; 1, 2, > and 4; > and 1, 2, 3, and 4. > > So the Tamil situation is similar to Telugu at least in so far > as 'The > rule of line-break is based on feet count unlike the syllable > count in > Sanskrit meters'. > > If inter-line SSR is so massive in ancient Tamil literature, > origin of > the inter-line SSR in Sanskrit borrowed Telugu verse meters can > probably > be traced to an older Dravidian situation. That becoming a > strict rule > for Sanskrit borrowed Telugu verse meters could be specific to > Telugu > prosody. > > If inter-line SSR in ancient Tamil lyrical literature is proved > to be a > regular lyrical meter device, the gOpIgItam's SSR can safely get > connected to a Tamil or Dravidian origin. > > Quantity rules are rigidly ingrained in Sanskrit meters; so one may > explain the quantity correspondence of initial vowel in the SSR of > gOpIgItam in terms of the rigidly ingrained vowel quantity > pattern rules > in Sanskrit meters. That is another problem area in the topic. > > > > > > > > On Sun, Aug 9, 2015 at 4:50 PM, Jean-Luc Chevillard > > >> wrote: > > Dear Professor Paturi, > > This is not true! > > SSR seems to happen frequently as "inter-line" in Ancient Tamil > literature. > > I believe "intra-line" SSR is less frequent > > See the characterizations (taken from the Tolk?ppiyam), > which I gave > yesterday in: > > > "http://list.indology.info/pipermail/indology_list.indology.info/2015-August/041916.html" > > See also for instance, this nice example from the Tolk?ppiyam's > characterization of the "verb" (vi?ai). > > TC195i > vi?aiye?ap pa?uvatu v???umai ko???tu > ni?aiyu? k?laik k?lamo?u t???um. > > We have etukai between "vi?ai" and "ni?aiyum", which are > both at the > beginning of a line > > (I could provide similar examples if you are not convinced ...) > > Part of the problem lies in the fact that, people tend to > view the > rules of ancient Tamil literature through the lenses of > medieval > treatises such as the Y?pparu?kalam and Y?pparu?kalak k?rikai > (which provide a very rich terminology for many marginal > examples of > intra-line SSR) > > > If you can provde massive evidence from ancient Tamil > literature in > order to support your statement, please do > > Your with every good wish > > > -- Jean-Luc Chevillard (CNRS) > > > > "https://univ-paris-diderot.academia.edu/JeanLucChevillard" > > "https://plus.google.com/u/0/113653379205101980081/posts/p/pub" > > "https://twitter.com/JLC1956" > > > > On 09/08/2015 16:02, Nagaraj Paturi wrote: > > a. SSR of Dravidian verse and lyrical meters is > intra-line and > the SSR > of Sanskrit meters either as used in languages of the > south or > in cases > such as gOpIgItam of Sanskrit, is inter-line. > > > > > > -- > Prof.Nagaraj Paturi > Hyderabad-500044 > > > > > > -- > Prof.Nagaraj Paturi > Hyderabad-500044 From nagarajpaturi at gmail.com Sun Aug 9 17:08:56 2015 From: nagarajpaturi at gmail.com (Nagaraj Paturi) Date: Sun, 09 Aug 15 22:38:56 +0530 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Second-syllable rhyming in Dravidian Message-ID: Dear Prof. Hart, It was Prof. Kevin M. Ryan who mentioned Proto-South-Dravidian but that was in the context of a certain variety of ER and not SSR. Tracing back /reconstructing metrical features in terms of proto forms is a challenging task. There was no discussion on those lines at least in this thread. Bh. Krishnamurti places Telugu in a newly formed southern-central sub-family in his recent book. But that is not related to this thread. Thanks for joining the interesting discussion. I know that you like it. Regards, Nagaraj -- Prof.Nagaraj Paturi Hyderabad-500044 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mrinalkaul81 at gmail.com Mon Aug 10 05:24:10 2015 From: mrinalkaul81 at gmail.com (Mrinal Kaul) Date: Mon, 10 Aug 15 10:54:10 +0530 Subject: =?utf-8?Q?[INDOLOGY]_Mattavil=C4=81sa_Prahasana?= Message-ID: Dear All, A quick google search tells me that there is at least one edition of the Mattavil?sa Prahasana and several (?) translations and theratical adaptations published. Would someone happen to have any PDF/s of the edition, translation and/or theatrical adaptations? I would be happy if you can share them. Best wishes. Mrinal Kaul ******************************** Mrinal Kaul Manipal Centre for Philosophy and Humanities (MCPH) Dr. TMA Pai Planetarium Complex Alevoor Road Manipal, Udupi 576104 Karnataka, INDIA ********************************* Tel: +91-820-2923567 (O) https://manipal.academia.edu/MrinalKaul e-mail: mrinal.kaul at stx.oxon.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From LubinT at wlu.edu Mon Aug 10 06:03:01 2015 From: LubinT at wlu.edu (Lubin, Tim) Date: Mon, 10 Aug 15 06:03:01 +0000 Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_[INDOLOGY]_Mattavil=C4=81sa_Prahasana?= In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Besides, T. Ganapati Sastri?s 1917 edition (Trivandrum), there is a newer edition and translation by N. P. Unni (Trivandrum, 1971), and Barnett?s 1930 translation in BSOAS 5.1 (1930): 697-717. I have sent you these. My intermediate Sanskrit students produced a slightly condensed version of the play (using the ch?y? rather than the Prakrit passages), accompanied by a very free English rendering projected on a screen behind them. A video of the performance is posted on my Academia.edu page. Timothy Lubin Professor of Religion and Adjunct Professor of Law Washington and Lee University Lexington, Virginia 24450 http://home.wlu.edu/~lubint http://wlu.academia.edu/TimothyLubin https://twitter.com/TimothyLubin ? From: INDOLOGY > on behalf of Mrinal Kaul > Date: Monday, August 10, 2015 at 10:54 AM To: Indology List > Subject: [INDOLOGY] Mattavil?sa Prahasana Dear All, A quick google search tells me that there is at least one edition of the Mattavil?sa Prahasana and several (?) translations and theratical adaptations published. Would someone happen to have any PDF/s of the edition, translation and/or theatrical adaptations? I would be happy if you can share them. Best wishes. Mrinal Kaul ******************************** Mrinal Kaul Manipal Centre for Philosophy and Humanities (MCPH) Dr. TMA Pai Planetarium Complex Alevoor Road Manipal, Udupi 576104 Karnataka, INDIA ********************************* Tel: +91-820-2923567 (O) https://manipal.academia.edu/MrinalKaul e-mail: mrinal.kaul at stx.oxon.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From H.J.H.Tieken at hum.leidenuniv.nl Mon Aug 10 06:54:02 2015 From: H.J.H.Tieken at hum.leidenuniv.nl (Tieken, H.J.H.) Date: Mon, 10 Aug 15 06:54:02 +0000 Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_[INDOLOGY]_Mattavil=C4=81sa_Prahasana?= In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Dear Dr Kaul, Edition: Mattavilasa Prahasana ("The Farce of Drnken Sport") by King Mahendravikramavarma Pallava. Edited and Translated from the Sanskrit and Prakrit by Michael Lockwood and A. Vishnu Bhat. Madras (The Christian Literature Society) 1981. See also H. Tieken, "The So-called Trivandrum Plays Attributed to Bhasa", WZKS 37 (1993), pp. 5-44, which deals with the (Bhasa? play) Pratijnayaugandharayana and the Mattavilasa. Unfortunately, I cannot help you with pdfs. Best, Herman Tieken Herman Tieken Stationsweg 58 2515 BP Den Haag The Netherlands 00 31 (0)70 2208127 website: hermantieken.com ________________________________ Van: INDOLOGY [indology-bounces at list.indology.info] namens Mrinal Kaul [mrinalkaul81 at gmail.com] Verzonden: maandag 10 augustus 2015 7:24 Aan: Indology List Onderwerp: [INDOLOGY] Mattavil?sa Prahasana Dear All, A quick google search tells me that there is at least one edition of the Mattavil?sa Prahasana and several (?) translations and theratical adaptations published. Would someone happen to have any PDF/s of the edition, translation and/or theatrical adaptations? I would be happy if you can share them. Best wishes. Mrinal Kaul ******************************** Mrinal Kaul Manipal Centre for Philosophy and Humanities (MCPH) Dr. TMA Pai Planetarium Complex Alevoor Road Manipal, Udupi 576104 Karnataka, INDIA ********************************* Tel: +91-820-2923567 (O) https://manipal.academia.edu/MrinalKaul e-mail: mrinal.kaul at stx.oxon.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anurupa.n at ifpindia.org Mon Aug 10 06:58:51 2015 From: anurupa.n at ifpindia.org (Anurupa Naik) Date: Mon, 10 Aug 15 12:28:51 +0530 Subject: =?utf-8?Q?[INDOLOGY]_New_book_jointly_published_by_the_Institut_Fran=C3=A7ais_de_Pondich=C3=A9ry/Ecole_fran=C3=A7aise_d'Extr=C3=AAme-Orient/Asien-Afrika-Institut,_Universit=C3=A4t_Hamburg?= In-Reply-To: <55C84AC5.4000102@ifpindia.org> Message-ID: <55C84BAB.3090201@ifpindia.org> *JUST RELEASED * ** */Early Tantric Vais?n?avism: Three Newly Discovered Works of the Pa?car?tra. The Sv?yambhuvapa?car?tra, Dev?mr?tapa?car?tra and As?t??da?avidh?na/**//* Critically edited from their 11th- and 12th-century Nepalese palm-leaf manuscripts with an Introduction and Notes by Diwakar Acharya. Collection Indologie n? 129; Early Tantra Series n? 2, Institut Fran?ais de Pondich?ry / Ecole fran?aise d?Extr?me-Orient / Asien-Afrika-Institut, Universit?t Hamburg, lxxxvi, 229 p. Language: Sanskrit, English. *700 Rs (30 *?*). *ISBN: 978-81-8470-206-4 (IFP) / 978-2-85539-152-6 (EFEO). The three works presented in this volume are hitherto unpublished texts of great significance for the early history of tantric Vai??avism, and we have grounds for supposing that they are older than any hitherto published Vai??ava Tantras. They preserve archaic elements not found in other Pa?car?tra works, such as Vai??ava /brahma-mantra/s styled after the P??upata ones, and the veneration of eight heroes of the V???i clan, as well as of the pentad of Var?ha, Narasi?ha, Trivikrama, V?mana, and Vasudeva. Their ritual makes profuse use of Vedic mantras, one of them even requiring the installation of Vedic hymns (rather than tantric mantras!) chosen from each of the ten /ma??ala/s of the /?gveda/ in every image of Vi??u. In a spirit rare in the Vai??ava traditions of the second millennium, these scriptures call on devotees to identify Brahm?, Vi??u and ?iva. They thus present a picture of Tantric Vai??avism in the first millennium AD as imbricated with ?aivism and Brahmanism and tell us much about the early history of tantrism and of Hinduism in general. The first and third of these texts are transmitted to us in a single palm-leaf manuscript dated to Nepal Samvat 147 (1027 AD), and the second in a slightly newer and undated one, both from the treasure trove of the National Archives, Kathmandu. This volume contains a first edition of these texts with a detailed introduction, including an English synopsis, along with text-critical notes and indices, as well as facsimiles of the manuscript leaves. *Keywords:*Mantram?rga, Vai??avism, Pa?car?tra, Early Tantra, Ritual ** *About the Editor* ** *Diwakar**Acharya* studied Sanskrit with traditional teachers beginning with his father and at universities in Nepal, India, and Germany. He started his teaching career in 1993 in Nepal and is currently teaching Indian philosophy and classical Sanskrit studies at Kyoto University, Japan. His research covers a wide range of topics in Sanskrit literature, Indian religious and philosophical traditions, and the early history of Nepal. He has published /V?caspatimi?ra?s Tattvasam?k??: The Earliest Commentary on Ma??anami?ra?s Brahmasiddhi/ (2006) and /The Little Clay Cart/ (2009), as well as a number of articles in journals and anthologies. *To order, contact:* Institut Fran?ais de Pondich?ry P. B. 33, 11, St. Louis Street, Pondicherry-605001, INDIA Ph: +91-413-2231660 / 661. Fax: +91 413-2231605 E-mail: library at ifpindia.org *Ecole fran?aise d?Extr?me-Orient* P.O. Box 151,16 & 19, Dumas Street Pondicherry - 605001,INDIA Ph: +91-413-2334539. Fax +91-413-2330886 E-mail: shanti at efeo-pondicherry.org -- Ms. Anurupa Naik Head, Library and Publication Division French Institute of Pondicherry (IFP) UMIFRE 21 CNRS-MAEE P.B. 33 11, St. Louis Street Pondicherry-605 001, INDIA Tel: 91-413-2231660 Fax: 91-413-2231605 e-mail:anurupa.n at ifpindia.org website:www.ifpindia.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mrinalkaul81 at gmail.com Mon Aug 10 07:03:25 2015 From: mrinalkaul81 at gmail.com (Mrinal Kaul) Date: Mon, 10 Aug 15 12:33:25 +0530 Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_[INDOLOGY]_Mattavil=C4=81sa_Prahasana?= In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Many thanks to Professor Veeranarayana Pandurangi, Professor Herman Tieken, Professor Roland Steiner, and Professor Timothy Lubin for promptly getting back to me. I have more than enough material now. Best wishes. Mrinal ******************************** Mrinal Kaul Manipal Centre for Philosophy and Humanities (MCPH) Dr. TMA Pai Planetarium Complex Alevoor Road Manipal, Udupi 576104 Karnataka, INDIA ********************************* Tel: +91-820-2923567 (O) https://manipal.academia.edu/MrinalKaul e-mail: mrinal.kaul at stx.oxon.org On 10 August 2015 at 12:32, Mrinal Kaul wrote: > Many thanks to Professor Veeranarayana Pandurangi, Professor Herman > Tieken, Professor Roland Steiner, and Professor Timothy Lubin for > promptly getting back to me. I have more than enough material now. > > Best wishes. > > Mrinal > > ******************************** > Mrinal Kaul > Manipal Centre for Philosophy and Humanities (MCPH) > Dr. TMA Pai Planetarium Complex > Alevoor Road > Manipal, Udupi 576104 > Karnataka, INDIA > ********************************* > Tel: +91-820-2923567 (O) > https://manipal.academia.edu/MrinalKaul > e-mail: mrinal.kaul at stx.oxon.org > > > On 10 August 2015 at 12:24, Tieken, H.J.H. > wrote: > >> Dear Dr Kaul, >> >> Edition: >> Mattavilasa Prahasana ("The Farce of Drnken Sport") by King >> Mahendravikramavarma Pallava. Edited and Translated from the Sanskrit and >> Prakrit by Michael Lockwood and A. Vishnu Bhat. Madras (The Christian >> Literature Society) 1981. >> >> See also H. Tieken, "The So-called Trivandrum Plays Attributed to Bhasa", >> WZKS 37 (1993), pp. 5-44, which deals with the (Bhasa? play) >> Pratijnayaugandharayana and the Mattavilasa. >> >> Unfortunately, I cannot help you with pdfs. >> >> Best, Herman Tieken >> >> Herman Tieken >> Stationsweg 58 >> 2515 BP Den Haag >> The Netherlands >> 00 31 (0)70 2208127 >> website: hermantieken.com >> ------------------------------ >> *Van:* INDOLOGY [indology-bounces at list.indology.info] namens Mrinal Kaul >> [mrinalkaul81 at gmail.com] >> *Verzonden:* maandag 10 augustus 2015 7:24 >> *Aan:* Indology List >> *Onderwerp:* [INDOLOGY] Mattavil?sa Prahasana >> >> Dear All, >> >> A quick google search tells me that there is at least one edition of the >> Mattavil?sa Prahasana and several (?) translations and theratical >> adaptations published. Would someone happen to have any PDF/s of the >> edition, translation and/or theatrical adaptations? I would be happy if you >> can share them. >> >> Best wishes. >> >> Mrinal Kaul >> >> ******************************** >> Mrinal Kaul >> Manipal Centre for Philosophy and Humanities (MCPH) >> Dr. TMA Pai Planetarium Complex >> Alevoor Road >> Manipal, Udupi 576104 >> Karnataka, INDIA >> ********************************* >> Tel: +91-820-2923567 (O) >> https://manipal.academia.edu/MrinalKaul >> e-mail: mrinal.kaul at stx.oxon.org >> >> > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From veerankp at gmail.com Mon Aug 10 07:15:14 2015 From: veerankp at gmail.com (Veeranarayana Pandurangi) Date: Mon, 10 Aug 15 12:45:14 +0530 Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_[INDOLOGY]_Mattavil=C4=81sa_Prahasana?= In-Reply-To: Message-ID: ????????????? ????????? On Mon, Aug 10, 2015 at 12:33 PM, Mrinal Kaul wrote: > Many thanks to Professor Veeranarayana Pandurangi, Professor Herman > Tieken, Professor Roland Steiner, and Professor Timothy Lubin for > promptly getting back to me. I have more than enough material now. > > Best wishes. > Mrinal > > ******************************** > Mrinal Kaul > Manipal Centre for Philosophy and Humanities (MCPH) > Dr. TMA Pai Planetarium Complex > Alevoor Road > Manipal, Udupi 576104 > Karnataka, INDIA > ********************************* > Tel: +91-820-2923567 (O) > https://manipal.academia.edu/MrinalKaul > e-mail: mrinal.kaul at stx.oxon.org > > > On 10 August 2015 at 12:32, Mrinal Kaul wrote: > >> Many thanks to Professor Veeranarayana Pandurangi, Professor Herman >> Tieken, Professor Roland Steiner, and Professor Timothy Lubin for >> promptly getting back to me. I have more than enough material now. >> >> Best wishes. >> >> Mrinal >> >> ******************************** >> Mrinal Kaul >> Manipal Centre for Philosophy and Humanities (MCPH) >> Dr. TMA Pai Planetarium Complex >> Alevoor Road >> Manipal, Udupi 576104 >> Karnataka, INDIA >> ********************************* >> Tel: +91-820-2923567 (O) >> https://manipal.academia.edu/MrinalKaul >> e-mail: mrinal.kaul at stx.oxon.org >> >> >> On 10 August 2015 at 12:24, Tieken, H.J.H. < >> H.J.H.Tieken at hum.leidenuniv.nl> wrote: >> >>> Dear Dr Kaul, >>> >>> Edition: >>> Mattavilasa Prahasana ("The Farce of Drnken Sport") by King >>> Mahendravikramavarma Pallava. Edited and Translated from the Sanskrit and >>> Prakrit by Michael Lockwood and A. Vishnu Bhat. Madras (The Christian >>> Literature Society) 1981. >>> >>> See also H. Tieken, "The So-called Trivandrum Plays Attributed to >>> Bhasa", WZKS 37 (1993), pp. 5-44, which deals with the (Bhasa? play) >>> Pratijnayaugandharayana and the Mattavilasa. >>> >>> Unfortunately, I cannot help you with pdfs. >>> >>> Best, Herman Tieken >>> >>> Herman Tieken >>> Stationsweg 58 >>> 2515 BP Den Haag >>> The Netherlands >>> 00 31 (0)70 2208127 >>> website: hermantieken.com >>> ------------------------------ >>> *Van:* INDOLOGY [indology-bounces at list.indology.info] namens Mrinal >>> Kaul [mrinalkaul81 at gmail.com] >>> *Verzonden:* maandag 10 augustus 2015 7:24 >>> *Aan:* Indology List >>> *Onderwerp:* [INDOLOGY] Mattavil?sa Prahasana >>> >>> Dear All, >>> >>> A quick google search tells me that there is at least one edition of the >>> Mattavil?sa Prahasana and several (?) translations and theratical >>> adaptations published. Would someone happen to have any PDF/s of the >>> edition, translation and/or theatrical adaptations? I would be happy if you >>> can share them. >>> >>> Best wishes. >>> >>> Mrinal Kaul >>> >>> ******************************** >>> Mrinal Kaul >>> Manipal Centre for Philosophy and Humanities (MCPH) >>> Dr. TMA Pai Planetarium Complex >>> Alevoor Road >>> Manipal, Udupi 576104 >>> Karnataka, INDIA >>> ********************************* >>> Tel: +91-820-2923567 (O) >>> https://manipal.academia.edu/MrinalKaul >>> e-mail: mrinal.kaul at stx.oxon.org >>> >>> >> > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing > committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or > unsubscribe) > -- Veeranarayana N.K. Pandurangi Director of Academics Dean, Faculty of Vedantas Karnakata Samskrita University, Pampa Mahakavi Road, Chamarajpet, Bengaluru. ?? ??????????? ??????? ???????? ? ????????? ??? ???????? ??????? ? ?????? ??????????????? ?????????????? ??????? ??????? ??????????? ??????????????? ?????? ???????? ??????????? (?.??.) http://www.ksu.ac.in http://www.ksu.ac.in/en/dr-veeranarayana-n-k-pandurangi/ https://groups.google.com/forum/?hl=en&fromgroups#!forum/bvparishat -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From klaus.karttunen at helsinki.fi Mon Aug 10 08:36:26 2015 From: klaus.karttunen at helsinki.fi (Klaus Karttunen) Date: Mon, 10 Aug 15 11:36:26 +0300 Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_[INDOLOGY]_Mattavil=C4=81sa_Prahasana?= In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <020F7436-674F-4CEE-BA51-1077F19B466C@helsinki.fi> Dear Colleagues, just as a curiosity: Among Mattavil?sa translations, there is also one in Finnish, in my collection Huumori muinaisessa Intiassa ( The Sense of Humour in Ancient India. Helsinki 2000), which also contains Bhagavadajjuk?ya and Ubhay?bhis?rik?. The text I used was that of Lockwood & Bhat. Best, Klaus Klaus Karttunen South Asian and Indoeuropean Studies Asian and African Studies, Department of World Cultures PL 59 (Unioninkatu 38 B) 00014 University of Helsinki, FINLAND Tel +358-(0)2941 4482418 Fax +358-(0)2941 22094 Klaus.Karttunen at helsinki.fi > On 10 Aug 2015, at 10:03, Mrinal Kaul wrote: > > Many thanks to Professor Veeranarayana Pandurangi, Professor Herman Tieken, Professor Roland Steiner, and Professor Timothy Lubin for promptly getting back to me. I have more than enough material now. > > Best wishes. > Mrinal > > ******************************** > Mrinal Kaul > Manipal Centre for Philosophy and Humanities (MCPH) > Dr. TMA Pai Planetarium Complex > Alevoor Road > Manipal, Udupi 576104 > Karnataka, INDIA > ********************************* > Tel: +91-820-2923567 (O) > https://manipal.academia.edu/MrinalKaul > e-mail: mrinal.kaul at stx.oxon.org > > > On 10 August 2015 at 12:32, Mrinal Kaul > wrote: > Many thanks to Professor Veeranarayana Pandurangi, Professor Herman Tieken, Professor Roland Steiner, and Professor Timothy Lubin for promptly getting back to me. I have more than enough material now. > > Best wishes. > > Mrinal > > ******************************** > Mrinal Kaul > Manipal Centre for Philosophy and Humanities (MCPH) > Dr. TMA Pai Planetarium Complex > Alevoor Road > Manipal, Udupi 576104 > Karnataka, INDIA > ********************************* > Tel: +91-820-2923567 (O) > https://manipal.academia.edu/MrinalKaul > e-mail: mrinal.kaul at stx.oxon.org > > > On 10 August 2015 at 12:24, Tieken, H.J.H. > wrote: > Dear Dr Kaul, > > Edition: > Mattavilasa Prahasana ("The Farce of Drnken Sport") by King Mahendravikramavarma Pallava. Edited and Translated from the Sanskrit and Prakrit by Michael Lockwood and A. Vishnu Bhat. Madras (The Christian Literature Society) 1981. > > See also H. Tieken, "The So-called Trivandrum Plays Attributed to Bhasa", WZKS 37 (1993), pp. 5-44, which deals with the (Bhasa? play) Pratijnayaugandharayana and the Mattavilasa. > > Unfortunately, I cannot help you with pdfs. > > Best, Herman Tieken > > Herman Tieken > Stationsweg 58 > 2515 BP Den Haag > The Netherlands > 00 31 (0)70 2208127 > website: hermantieken.com > Van: INDOLOGY [indology-bounces at list.indology.info ] namens Mrinal Kaul [mrinalkaul81 at gmail.com ] > Verzonden: maandag 10 augustus 2015 7:24 > Aan: Indology List > Onderwerp: [INDOLOGY] Mattavil?sa Prahasana > > Dear All, > > A quick google search tells me that there is at least one edition of the Mattavil?sa Prahasana and several (?) translations and theratical adaptations published. Would someone happen to have any PDF/s of the edition, translation and/or theatrical adaptations? I would be happy if you can share them. > > Best wishes. > > Mrinal Kaul > > ******************************** > Mrinal Kaul > Manipal Centre for Philosophy and Humanities (MCPH) > Dr. TMA Pai Planetarium Complex > Alevoor Road > Manipal, Udupi 576104 > Karnataka, INDIA > ********************************* > Tel: +91-820-2923567 (O) > https://manipal.academia.edu/MrinalKaul > e-mail: mrinal.kaul at stx.oxon.org > > > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From filipsky at rzone.cz Mon Aug 10 09:36:23 2015 From: filipsky at rzone.cz (=?utf-8?Q?Jan_Filipsk=C3=BD?=) Date: Mon, 10 Aug 15 11:36:23 +0200 Subject: [INDOLOGY] B G Gokhale Message-ID: <031201d0d350$0647d640$12d782c0$@rzone.cz> Dear All, I would be very much obliged to any list member able and willing to supply e-versions of one (or both) papers that are not readily available to me. Govind Gokhale, Balakrishna ?Dhamma as a Political Concept.? Journal of Indian History (University of Kerala), Vol. 46, Aug 1968: 249?261 a ?Dhamiko Dhammaraja?A Study in Buddhist Constitutional Concepts?, in Indica. Silver Commemoration Volume, 1953. With many thanks and best regards, Jan Filipsky -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From karp at uw.edu.pl Mon Aug 10 10:53:29 2015 From: karp at uw.edu.pl (Artur Karp) Date: Mon, 10 Aug 15 12:53:29 +0200 Subject: [INDOLOGY] B G Gokhale In-Reply-To: <031201d0d350$0647d640$12d782c0$@rzone.cz> Message-ID: I'd like to join the request. My expressions of gratitude in advance --- Artur Karp 2015-08-10 11:36 GMT+02:00 Jan Filipsk? : > Dear All, > > I would be very much obliged to any list member able and willing to supply > e-versions of one (or both) papers that are not readily available to me. > > Govind Gokhale, Balakrishna > > ?Dhamma as a Political Concept.? Journal of Indian History (University of > Kerala), Vol. 46, Aug 1968: 249?261 a > > ?Dhamiko Dhammaraja?A Study in Buddhist Constitutional Concepts?, in > Indica. Silver Commemoration Volume, 1953. > > With many thanks and best regards, > > Jan Filipsky > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing > committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or > unsubscribe) > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ajit.gargeshwari at gmail.com Mon Aug 10 16:25:47 2015 From: ajit.gargeshwari at gmail.com (Ajit Gargeshwari) Date: Mon, 10 Aug 15 21:55:47 +0530 Subject: =?utf-8?Q?[INDOLOGY]_=E2=80=8B_Mattavil=C4=81sa_Prahasana?= Message-ID: ?Apart from the works mentioned by Prof. Lubin there is Matta Vilasa Prahsana by Mahendra Vikrama Verma with Prakasha Hindi Commentary edited by Kaplia Deva Giri Chowkambha publication?. I would be obliged if ?Barnett?s 1930 translation in BSOAS 5.1 (1930): 697-717. could be shared with me. Thanks On Mon, Aug 10, 2015 at 9:30 PM, wrote: > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > From: "Lubin, Tim" < > ?? > LubinT at wlu.edu> > To: Mrinal Kaul , Indology List < > indology at list.indology.info> > Cc: > Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2015 06:03:01 +0000 > Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] > ?? > Mattavil?sa Prahasana > Besides, T. Ganapati Sastri?s 1917 edition (Trivandrum), there is a newer > edition and translation by N. P. Unni (Trivandrum, 1971), and > ?? > Barnett?s 1930 translation in BSOAS 5.1 (1930): 697-717. I have sent you > these. > > My intermediate Sanskrit students produced a slightly condensed version of > the play (using the ch?y? rather than the Prakrit passages), accompanied by > a very free English rendering projected on a screen behind them. A video > of the performance is posted on my Academia.edu page. > > Timothy Lubin > Professor of Religion and Adjunct Professor of Law > Washington and Lee University > Lexington, Virginia 24450 > > http://home.wlu.edu/~lubint > http://wlu.academia.edu/TimothyLubin > https://twitter.com/TimothyLubin > Regards Ajit Gargeshwari ? ????? ??????? ?? ??????????? ?????? ????? ?? ? ????? ??? ?????? ?????????? ?????? ? ?????? ???????? ???????2.20?? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From kauzeya at gmail.com Mon Aug 10 17:45:13 2015 From: kauzeya at gmail.com (Jonathan Silk) Date: Mon, 10 Aug 15 19:45:13 +0200 Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_[INDOLOGY]_=E2=80=8B_Mattavil=C4=81sa_Prahasana?= In-Reply-To: Message-ID: not an edition, and I don't have this right in front of me, but I remember this as being an excellent translation: David N. Lorenzen, "A Parody of the Kapalikas in the Mattavilasa," in Tantra in Practice, ed. D. G. White, ah, who needs actual books? thanks to the mega-monster google: https://books.google.nl/books?id=hayV4o50eUEC&pg=PA84&lpg=PA84&dq=MattaVilasa+lorenzen+david&source=bl&ots=ZiRnwxEXjc&sig=jRvTGA0X7GkutgIYAFgcvS0JtSY&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0CCwQ6AEwAmoVChMI1MLKgIifxwIVgdcaCh2QgwA8#v=onepage&q=MattaVilasa%20lorenzen%20david&f=false there are not even any suppressed pages here! Jonathan On Mon, Aug 10, 2015 at 6:25 PM, Ajit Gargeshwari < ajit.gargeshwari at gmail.com> wrote: > ?Apart from the works mentioned by Prof. Lubin there is Matta Vilasa > Prahsana by Mahendra Vikrama Verma with Prakasha Hindi Commentary edited by > Kaplia Deva Giri Chowkambha publication?. I would be obliged if ?Barnett?s > 1930 translation in BSOAS 5.1 (1930): 697-717. could be shared with me. > Thanks > > On Mon, Aug 10, 2015 at 9:30 PM, > wrote: > >> ---------- Forwarded message ---------- >> From: "Lubin, Tim" < >> ?? >> LubinT at wlu.edu> >> To: Mrinal Kaul , Indology List < >> indology at list.indology.info> >> Cc: >> Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2015 06:03:01 +0000 >> Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] >> ?? >> Mattavil?sa Prahasana >> Besides, T. Ganapati Sastri?s 1917 edition (Trivandrum), there is a newer >> edition and translation by N. P. Unni (Trivandrum, 1971), and >> ?? >> Barnett?s 1930 translation in BSOAS 5.1 (1930): 697-717. I have sent you >> these. >> >> My intermediate Sanskrit students produced a slightly condensed version >> of the play (using the ch?y? rather than the Prakrit passages), accompanied >> by a very free English rendering projected on a screen behind them. A >> video of the performance is posted on my Academia.edu page. >> >> Timothy Lubin >> Professor of Religion and Adjunct Professor of Law >> Washington and Lee University >> Lexington, Virginia 24450 >> >> http://home.wlu.edu/~lubint >> http://wlu.academia.edu/TimothyLubin >> https://twitter.com/TimothyLubin >> > > > > Regards > Ajit Gargeshwari > ? ????? ??????? ?? ??????????? ?????? ????? ?? ? ????? > ??? ?????? ?????????? ?????? ? ?????? ???????? ???????2.20?? > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing > committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or > unsubscribe) > -- J. Silk Leiden University Leiden University Institute for Area Studies, LIAS Matthias de Vrieshof 3, Room 0.05b 2311 BZ Leiden The Netherlands copies of my publications may be found at http://www.buddhismandsocialjustice.com/silk_publications.html -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From hr at ivs.edu Mon Aug 10 20:05:11 2015 From: hr at ivs.edu (Howard Resnick) Date: Mon, 10 Aug 15 22:05:11 +0200 Subject: [INDOLOGY] ~~ New E-Book Uploaded: Rasa-prabandhah of Sri Prabodhananda Saraswati (with Translation) ~~ Message-ID: ~~ shri-shri-radha-damodaraya namah ~~ Title: Rasa-prabandhah Author: Srila Prabodhananda Saraswati Language: Sanskrit (with Hindi Translation). Translator and Editor: Sri Haridasa Shastri. Published by: Sri Haridasa Shastri at the Gadadhara-gaurahari-press, Kalidaha, Vrindavan, Mathura, Uttara-pradesh, India. Download Links (Try any One): 1) https://archive.org/details/rasaprabandha 2) https://www.dropbox.com/s/xk6gwsrnw8lm59m/rasa_prabandha.pdf?dl=0 sAdhu-caraNa-rajo 'bhilASI, hari parshad das. ---------------------------------------------------------- -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From hr at ivs.edu Mon Aug 10 20:07:13 2015 From: hr at ivs.edu (Howard Resnick) Date: Mon, 10 Aug 15 22:07:13 +0200 Subject: [INDOLOGY] button syndrome Message-ID: <8109D184-F5E1-45A7-A8BC-C0F6D10603C8@ivs.edu> I hit the wrong button and sent to the list the link to the new translation of Rasa-prabandha before mentioning that I was passing on a link I recieved as an undisclosed recipient. Sorry. From dnreigle at gmail.com Mon Aug 10 21:07:48 2015 From: dnreigle at gmail.com (David and Nancy Reigle) Date: Mon, 10 Aug 15 15:07:48 -0600 Subject: =?utf-8?Q?[INDOLOGY]_Two_additional_recensions_of_the_=E1=B9=9Agveda_available?= Message-ID: As most of you know, two recensions of the ?gveda in addition to the long standard ??kala/??kalya recension have become available in the last several years. They are: ??val?yana-Sa?hit? of the ?gveda, ed. B. B. Chaubey, 2 vols., New Delhi: Indira Gandhi National Centre for the Arts, 2009. The ?gveda Sa?hit? of ???kh?yana-??kh?, ed. Amal Dhari Singh Gautam, 4 vols., Ujjain: Maharshi Sandipani Rashtriya Veda Vidya Pratishthan, 2012-2013. I would be very interested in comments from the Vedic scholars here about the significance of having two additional recensions of the ?gveda. In particular, I was earlier informed that an 1897 book in Danish by Hans Vodskov, Rig-veda og Edda, has a chapter attempting to demonstrate that the ?gveda we have shows a very late style. My informant noted that Vodskov's views about the late style of the ??kala recension have not been adopted by Vedic scholars. Now that we have two additional recensions, almost identical to the ??kala recension, I assume that this would be significant evidence for an early, unchanged style. As for linguistic peculiarities, as opposed to stylistic ones, Madhav Deshpande had noted in his 1993 book, Sanskrit & Prakrit: Sociolinguistic Issues, p. 134: "In most recent discussions, a historical fact of utmost importance is often overlooked, namely that the text of the ?gveda that we have today is not necessarily the original ?gveda. What we have is only one recension (sa?hit?) of the ?gveda compiled several centuries after the hymns were composed by the ?gvedic sages." Now we have three recensions, together presumably bringing us closer to the original ?gveda. Best regards, David Reigle Colorado, U.S.A. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mmdesh at umich.edu Mon Aug 10 21:19:11 2015 From: mmdesh at umich.edu (Madhav Deshpande) Date: Mon, 10 Aug 15 17:19:11 -0400 Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_[INDOLOGY]=09Two_additional_recensions_of_the_=E1=B9=9Agveda_available?= In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hello David and Nancy, My colleague at the University of Michigan, Professor Benjamin Fortson, a few months ago gave a talk about some peculiarities of the ??val?yana Sa?hit? of the RV. I was unable to attend the talk due to being ill at that time. I have requested him to send me a pdf or a ppt of his talk. I would be most interested in hearing more about these alternative recensions of the RV and their distinctive features, if any. Best, Madhav Deshpande On Mon, Aug 10, 2015 at 5:07 PM, David and Nancy Reigle wrote: > As most of you know, two recensions of the ?gveda in addition to the long > standard ??kala/??kalya recension have become available in the last > several years. They are: > > ??val?yana-Sa?hit? of the ?gveda, ed. B. B. Chaubey, 2 vols., New Delhi: > Indira Gandhi National Centre for the Arts, 2009. > > The ?gveda Sa?hit? of ???kh?yana-??kh?, ed. Amal Dhari Singh Gautam, 4 > vols., Ujjain: Maharshi Sandipani Rashtriya Veda Vidya Pratishthan, > 2012-2013. > > I would be very interested in comments from the Vedic scholars here about > the significance of having two additional recensions of the ?gveda. In > particular, I was earlier informed that an 1897 book in Danish by Hans > Vodskov, Rig-veda og Edda, has a chapter attempting to demonstrate that the > ?gveda we have shows a very late style. My informant noted that Vodskov's > views about the late style of the ??kala recension have not been adopted > by Vedic scholars. Now that we have two additional recensions, almost > identical to the ??kala recension, I assume that this would be > significant evidence for an early, unchanged style. > > As for linguistic peculiarities, as opposed to stylistic ones, Madhav > Deshpande had noted in his 1993 book, Sanskrit & Prakrit: Sociolinguistic > Issues, p. 134: "In most recent discussions, a historical fact of utmost > importance is often overlooked, namely that the text of the ?gveda that > we have today is not necessarily the original ?gveda. What we have is > only one recension (sa?hit?) of the ?gveda compiled several centuries > after the hymns were composed by the ?gvedic sages." > > Now we have three recensions, together presumably bringing us closer to > the original ?gveda. > > Best regards, > > David Reigle > Colorado, U.S.A. > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing > committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or > unsubscribe) > -- Madhav M. Deshpande Professor of Sanskrit and Linguistics Department of Asian Languages and Cultures 202 South Thayer Street, Suite 6111 The University of Michigan Ann Arbor, MI 48104-1608, USA -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From will.sweetman at gmail.com Tue Aug 11 00:03:24 2015 From: will.sweetman at gmail.com (Will Sweetman) Date: Tue, 11 Aug 15 12:03:24 +1200 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Texts and bodily metaphors Message-ID: Dear all I'm working on some early European accounts of the Vedas including what I think is the very first reference to the Vedas in a European text. This was published in Couto's *Da Asia,* but is in fact taken from another work written by an Augustinian friar Agostinho de Azevedo in 1603. Azevedo (in my translation) says that the Brahmins: "have many books in their Latin, which they call Gered?o which contain everything they are to believe, and all the ceremonies they are to perform. These books are divided into bodies [corpos], limbs [membros] and joints [articulos], whose originals are those they call Veados, which are divided into four parts, and these further into fifty-two parts in the following manner: six which they call Xastra, which are the bodies, eighteen which they call Purana, which are the limbs, twenty-eight called Agamon which are the joints." This formulation, with variations, is repeated in many subsequent European sources. The terms for the divisions (corpos,membros, articulos), which are not so often repeated, have usually been translated more literally as bodies, members and articles (or articulations). I'm curious as to whether anyone is aware of an Indian source which uses these metaphors. I'm aware, of course of the Ved??gas, but I think the six here are clearly meant to be the ??stras/dar?anas. This may indicate some muddling?or sheer invention?on Azevedo's part, but in other instances I've found it best to look first for an Indian source or idea an early European writer may be following rather than immediately assuming error or invention, so I'd welcome any leads and/or comments on translating membros as limbs and articulos as joints. "Articles" for the latter seems to me to be a particularly unilluminating translation. Best Will -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From eastwestcultural at yahoo.com Tue Aug 11 01:52:11 2015 From: eastwestcultural at yahoo.com (Dean Michael Anderson) Date: Tue, 11 Aug 15 01:52:11 +0000 Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_[INDOLOGY]=09Two_additional_recensions_of_the_=E1=B9=9Agveda_available?= In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <1524261796.2528151.1439257931889.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Hi Madhav, Would you be able to share the pdf or ppt? Best, Dean From: Madhav Deshpande To: David and Nancy Reigle Cc: Indology Sent: Tuesday, August 11, 2015 2:49 AM Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] Two additional recensions of the ?gveda available Hello David and Nancy, My colleague at the University of Michigan, Professor Benjamin Fortson, a few months ago gave a talk about some peculiarities of the ??val?yana Sa?hit? of the RV.? I was unable to attend the talk due to being ill at that time.? I have requested him to send me a pdf or a ppt of his talk.? I would be most interested in hearing more about these alternative recensions of the RV and their distinctive features, if any.? Best, Madhav Deshpande On Mon, Aug 10, 2015 at 5:07 PM, David and Nancy Reigle wrote: As most of you know, two recensions of the ?gveda in addition to the long standard ??kala/??kalya recension have become available in the last several years. They are: ??val?yana-Sa?hit? of the ?gveda, ed. B. B. Chaubey, 2 vols., New Delhi: Indira Gandhi National Centre for the Arts, 2009. The ?gveda Sa?hit? of ???kh?yana-??kh?, ed. Amal Dhari Singh Gautam, 4 vols., Ujjain: Maharshi Sandipani Rashtriya Veda Vidya Pratishthan, 2012-2013. I would be very interested in comments from the Vedic scholars here about the significance of having two additional recensions of the ?gveda. In particular, I was earlier informed that an 1897 book in Danish by Hans Vodskov, Rig-veda og Edda, has a chapter attempting to demonstrate that the ?gveda we have shows a very late style. My informant noted that Vodskov's views about the late style of the ??kala recension have not been adopted by Vedic scholars. Now that we have two additional recensions, almost identical to the ??kala recension, I assume that this would be significant evidence for an early, unchanged style. As for linguistic peculiarities, as opposed to stylistic ones, Madhav Deshpande had noted in his 1993 book, Sanskrit & Prakrit: Sociolinguistic Issues, p. 134: "In most recent discussions, a historical fact of utmost importance is often overlooked, namely that the text of the ?gveda that we have today is not necessarily the original ?gveda. What we have is only one recension (sa?hit?) of the ?gveda compiled several centuries after the hymns were composed by the ?gvedic sages." Now we have three recensions, together presumably bringing us closer to the original ?gveda. Best regards, David Reigle Colorado, U.S.A. _______________________________________________ INDOLOGY mailing list INDOLOGY at list.indology.info indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) -- Madhav M. Deshpande Professor of Sanskrit and Linguistics Department of Asian Languages and Cultures 202 South Thayer Street, Suite 6111 The University of Michigan Ann Arbor, MI 48104-1608, USA _______________________________________________ INDOLOGY mailing list INDOLOGY at list.indology.info indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mmdesh at umich.edu Tue Aug 11 01:57:58 2015 From: mmdesh at umich.edu (Madhav Deshpande) Date: Mon, 10 Aug 15 21:57:58 -0400 Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_[INDOLOGY]=09Two_additional_recensions_of_the_=E1=B9=9Agveda_available?= In-Reply-To: <1524261796.2528151.1439257931889.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hello Dean, I will meet with Benjamin Fortson sometime in the last week of August. Hopefully, I will have something by then. Best, Madhav On Mon, Aug 10, 2015 at 9:52 PM, Dean Michael Anderson < eastwestcultural at yahoo.com> wrote: > Hi Madhav, > > Would you be able to share the pdf or ppt? > > Best, > > Dean > > ------------------------------ > *From:* Madhav Deshpande > *To:* David and Nancy Reigle > *Cc:* Indology > *Sent:* Tuesday, August 11, 2015 2:49 AM > *Subject:* Re: [INDOLOGY] Two additional recensions of the ?gveda > available > > Hello David and Nancy, > > My colleague at the University of Michigan, Professor Benjamin Fortson, a > few months ago gave a talk about some peculiarities of the ??val?yana > Sa?hit? of the RV. I was unable to attend the talk due to being ill at > that time. I have requested him to send me a pdf or a ppt of his talk. I > would be most interested in hearing more about these alternative recensions > of the RV and their distinctive features, if any. Best, > > Madhav Deshpande > > On Mon, Aug 10, 2015 at 5:07 PM, David and Nancy Reigle < > dnreigle at gmail.com> wrote: > > > > As most of you know, two recensions of the ?gveda in addition to the long > standard ??kala/??kalya recension have become available in the last > several years. They are: > > ??val?yana-Sa?hit? of the ?gveda, ed. B. B. Chaubey, 2 vols., New Delhi: > Indira Gandhi National Centre for the Arts, 2009. > > The ?gveda Sa?hit? of ???kh?yana-??kh?, ed. Amal Dhari Singh Gautam, 4 > vols., Ujjain: Maharshi Sandipani Rashtriya Veda Vidya Pratishthan, > 2012-2013. > > I would be very interested in comments from the Vedic scholars here about > the significance of having two additional recensions of the ?gveda. In > particular, I was earlier informed that an 1897 book in Danish by Hans > Vodskov, Rig-veda og Edda, has a chapter attempting to demonstrate that the > ?gveda we have shows a very late style. My informant noted that Vodskov's > views about the late style of the ??kala recension have not been adopted > by Vedic scholars. Now that we have two additional recensions, almost > identical to the ??kala recension, I assume that this would be > significant evidence for an early, unchanged style. > > As for linguistic peculiarities, as opposed to stylistic ones, Madhav > Deshpande had noted in his 1993 book, Sanskrit & Prakrit: Sociolinguistic > Issues, p. 134: "In most recent discussions, a historical fact of utmost > importance is often overlooked, namely that the text of the ?gveda that > we have today is not necessarily the original ?gveda. What we have is > only one recension (sa?hit?) of the ?gveda compiled several centuries > after the hymns were composed by the ?gvedic sages." > > Now we have three recensions, together presumably bringing us closer to > the original ?gveda. > > Best regards, > > David Reigle > Colorado, U.S.A. > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing > committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or > unsubscribe) > > > > > -- > Madhav M. Deshpande > Professor of Sanskrit and Linguistics > Department of Asian Languages and Cultures > 202 South Thayer Street, Suite 6111 > The University of Michigan > Ann Arbor, MI 48104-1608, USA > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing > committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or > unsubscribe) > > > -- Madhav M. Deshpande Professor of Sanskrit and Linguistics Department of Asian Languages and Cultures 202 South Thayer Street, Suite 6111 The University of Michigan Ann Arbor, MI 48104-1608, USA -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From eastwestcultural at yahoo.com Tue Aug 11 02:00:24 2015 From: eastwestcultural at yahoo.com (Dean Michael Anderson) Date: Tue, 11 Aug 15 02:00:24 +0000 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Texts and bodily metaphors In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <99837864.2536294.1439258424137.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> The Darshanas are also called "upangas" which could be translated as "subsidiary limbs" or, I suppose, "joints". Perhaps someone else has a textual reference for it. Best, Dean From: Will Sweetman To: Indology Sent: Tuesday, August 11, 2015 5:33 AM Subject: [INDOLOGY] Texts and bodily metaphors Dear all I'm working on some early European accounts of the Vedas including what I think is the very first reference to the Vedas in a European text. This was published in Couto's Da Asia, but is in fact taken from another work written by an Augustinian friar Agostinho de Azevedo in 1603. Azevedo (in my translation) says that the Brahmins: "have many books in their Latin, which they call Gered?o which contain everything they are to believe, and all the ceremonies they are to perform. These books are divided into bodies [corpos], limbs [membros] and joints [articulos], whose originals are those they call Veados, which are divided into four parts, and these further into fifty-two parts in the following manner: six which they call Xastra, which are the bodies, eighteen which they call Purana, which are the limbs, twenty-eight called Agamon which are the joints." This formulation, with variations, is repeated in many subsequent European sources. The terms for the divisions (corpos,membros, articulos), which are not so often repeated, have usually been translated more literally as bodies, members and articles (or articulations).? I'm curious as to whether anyone is aware of an Indian source which uses these metaphors. I'm aware, of course of the Ved??gas, but I think the six here are clearly meant to be the ??stras/dar?anas. This may indicate some muddling?or sheer invention?on Azevedo's part, but in other instances I've found it best to look first for an Indian source or idea an early European writer may be following rather than immediately assuming error or invention, so I'd welcome any leads and/or comments on translating membros as limbs and articulos as joints. "Articles" for the latter seems to me to be a particularly unilluminating translation. Best Will _______________________________________________ INDOLOGY mailing list INDOLOGY at list.indology.info indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From nagarajpaturi at gmail.com Tue Aug 11 03:23:23 2015 From: nagarajpaturi at gmail.com (Nagaraj Paturi) Date: Tue, 11 Aug 15 08:53:23 +0530 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Texts and bodily metaphors Message-ID: Padmapurana-Svargakhanda dvishashTitamaadhyaaya has an imagery of 18 puranas as the body parts of Vishnu. -- Prof.Nagaraj Paturi Hyderabad-500044 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From nagarajpaturi at gmail.com Tue Aug 11 03:48:54 2015 From: nagarajpaturi at gmail.com (Nagaraj Paturi) Date: Tue, 11 Aug 15 09:18:54 +0530 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Texts and bodily metaphors Message-ID: >>six which they call Xastra, which are the bodies, eighteen which they call Purana, which are the limbs, twenty-eight called Agamon which are the joints." If limbs and joints imagery is meant to view the whole corpus of texts as one single body and different texts as the limbs and joints of that body what could be the idea behind the plural bodies (corpos) ? For an Indian audience, the plural 'bodies', several bodies of a single person makes sense because they are used to the idea of sthUla, sUkshma, Karana/linga and other such notions of s'arIra. But what could have been meant to be communicated and what could have been communicated to a European audience through the plural 'bodies' ? -- Prof.Nagaraj Paturi Hyderabad-500044 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From wujastyk at gmail.com Tue Aug 11 05:49:08 2015 From: wujastyk at gmail.com (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Mon, 10 Aug 15 23:49:08 -0600 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Texts and bodily metaphors In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On 10 August 2015 at 20:00, Dean Michael Anderson via INDOLOGY < indology at list.indology.info> wrote: > joints [articulos], ? "joints [articulos],"? suggests Skt. *parvan* to me. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From francois.voegeli at gmail.com Tue Aug 11 06:06:11 2015 From: francois.voegeli at gmail.com (Francois Voegeli) Date: Tue, 11 Aug 15 08:06:11 +0200 Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_[INDOLOGY]_Two_additional_recensions_of_the_=E1=B9=9Agveda_available?= In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hello Madhav and Dean, I'll be also interested by anything you can get on this subject. Yours, Fran?ois Voegeli On 11 ao?t 2015, at 03:57, Madhav Deshpande wrote: > Hello Dean, > > I will meet with Benjamin Fortson sometime in the last week of August. Hopefully, I will have something by then. Best, > > Madhav > > On Mon, Aug 10, 2015 at 9:52 PM, Dean Michael Anderson wrote: > Hi Madhav, > > Would you be able to share the pdf or ppt? > > Best, > > Dean > > From: Madhav Deshpande > To: David and Nancy Reigle > Cc: Indology > Sent: Tuesday, August 11, 2015 2:49 AM > Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] Two additional recensions of the ?gveda available > > Hello David and Nancy, > > My colleague at the University of Michigan, Professor Benjamin Fortson, a few months ago gave a talk about some peculiarities of the ??val?yana Sa?hit? of the RV. I was unable to attend the talk due to being ill at that time. I have requested him to send me a pdf or a ppt of his talk. I would be most interested in hearing more about these alternative recensions of the RV and their distinctive features, if any. Best, > > Madhav Deshpande > > On Mon, Aug 10, 2015 at 5:07 PM, David and Nancy Reigle wrote: > > > As most of you know, two recensions of the ?gveda in addition to the long standard ??kala/??kalya recension have become available in the last several years. They are: > > ??val?yana-Sa?hit? of the ?gveda, ed. B. B. Chaubey, 2 vols., New Delhi: Indira Gandhi National Centre for the Arts, 2009. > > The ?gveda Sa?hit? of ???kh?yana-??kh?, ed. Amal Dhari Singh Gautam, 4 vols., Ujjain: Maharshi Sandipani Rashtriya Veda Vidya Pratishthan, 2012-2013. > > I would be very interested in comments from the Vedic scholars here about the significance of having two additional recensions of the ?gveda. In particular, I was earlier informed that an 1897 book in Danish by Hans Vodskov, Rig-veda og Edda, has a chapter attempting to demonstrate that the ?gveda we have shows a very late style. My informant noted that Vodskov's views about the late style of the ??kala recension have not been adopted by Vedic scholars. Now that we have two additional recensions, almost identical to the ??kala recension, I assume that this would be significant evidence for an early, unchanged style. > > As for linguistic peculiarities, as opposed to stylistic ones, Madhav Deshpande had noted in his 1993 book, Sanskrit & Prakrit: Sociolinguistic Issues, p. 134: "In most recent discussions, a historical fact of utmost importance is often overlooked, namely that the text of the ?gveda that we have today is not necessarily the original ?gveda. What we have is only one recension (sa?hit?) of the ?gveda compiled several centuries after the hymns were composed by the ?gvedic sages." > > Now we have three recensions, together presumably bringing us closer to the original ?gveda. > > Best regards, > > David Reigle > Colorado, U.S.A. > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) > > > > -- > Madhav M. Deshpande > Professor of Sanskrit and Linguistics > Department of Asian Languages and Cultures > 202 South Thayer Street, Suite 6111 > The University of Michigan > Ann Arbor, MI 48104-1608, USA > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) > > > > > > -- > Madhav M. Deshpande > Professor of Sanskrit and Linguistics > Department of Asian Languages and Cultures > 202 South Thayer Street, Suite 6111 > The University of Michigan > Ann Arbor, MI 48104-1608, USA > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dnreigle at gmail.com Tue Aug 11 17:35:14 2015 From: dnreigle at gmail.com (David and Nancy Reigle) Date: Tue, 11 Aug 15 11:35:14 -0600 Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_[INDOLOGY]=09Two_additional_recensions_of_the_=E1=B9=9Agveda_available?= In-Reply-To: Message-ID: The first thing that was noticed by the editor of the the ??val?yana-Sa?hit?, B. B. Chaubey, is that the khilas, long known and often published as an appendix to editions of the ?gveda, are almost all found incorporated in the hymns of the ??val?yana recension. They are apocrypha only for the ??kala recension. They are genuine ?gveda mantras, as shown by their presence within the ??val?yana-Sa?hit?. Both of the newly published recensions include their own pada-p??ha. In his extensive introduction, Chaubey stated that the 212 additional mantras not found in ??kala recension are not given in ??val?yana pada-p??ha manuscripts. He therefore, after learning its different method of showing the avagraha, supplied them himself (p. 57). Here is my question, that perhaps someone in India with access either to the manuscripts or to the editors can answer. In hymn 10.121 addressed to hira?ya-garbha, the last verse, verse 10, brings in Praj?pati. Vedic scholars such as Jan Gonda have questioned the authenticity of this verse because its words are not separated in the pada-p??ha (WZKS 27, 1983, p. 31). In both of the newly published recensions, this verse has a full pada-p ??ha. So, was the pada-p??ha for this verse prepared and added by Chaubey to his edition of the ??val?yana recension? And perhaps then copied by Amal Dhari Singh Gautam for his edition of the ???kh?yana recension? Or is it in fact found in manuscripts of the pada-p??ha of the ??val?yana and/or the ?? ?kh?yana recension? Best regards, David Reigle Colorado, U.S.A. On Mon, Aug 10, 2015 at 3:07 PM, David and Nancy Reigle wrote: > As most of you know, two recensions of the ?gveda in addition to the long > standard ??kala/??kalya recension have become available in the last > several years. They are: > > ??val?yana-Sa?hit? of the ?gveda, ed. B. B. Chaubey, 2 vols., New Delhi: > Indira Gandhi National Centre for the Arts, 2009. > > The ?gveda Sa?hit? of ???kh?yana-??kh?, ed. Amal Dhari Singh Gautam, 4 > vols., Ujjain: Maharshi Sandipani Rashtriya Veda Vidya Pratishthan, > 2012-2013. > > I would be very interested in comments from the Vedic scholars here about > the significance of having two additional recensions of the ?gveda. In > particular, I was earlier informed that an 1897 book in Danish by Hans > Vodskov, Rig-veda og Edda, has a chapter attempting to demonstrate that the > ?gveda we have shows a very late style. My informant noted that Vodskov's > views about the late style of the ??kala recension have not been adopted > by Vedic scholars. Now that we have two additional recensions, almost > identical to the ??kala recension, I assume that this would be > significant evidence for an early, unchanged style. > > As for linguistic peculiarities, as opposed to stylistic ones, Madhav > Deshpande had noted in his 1993 book, Sanskrit & Prakrit: Sociolinguistic > Issues, p. 134: "In most recent discussions, a historical fact of utmost > importance is often overlooked, namely that the text of the ?gveda that > we have today is not necessarily the original ?gveda. What we have is > only one recension (sa?hit?) of the ?gveda compiled several centuries > after the hymns were composed by the ?gvedic sages." > > Now we have three recensions, together presumably bringing us closer to > the original ?gveda. > > Best regards, > > David Reigle > Colorado, U.S.A. > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From slaje at kabelmail.de Tue Aug 11 21:02:47 2015 From: slaje at kabelmail.de (Walter Slaje) Date: Tue, 11 Aug 15 23:02:47 +0200 Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_[INDOLOGY]=09Two_additional_recensions_of_the_=E1=B9=9Agveda_available?= In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > the khilas (...) are apocrypha only for the ??kala recension. This insight is not new. Isidor Scheftelowitz has emphasized this fact already in 1906 (pp. 11ff) in his introduction to his edition of the ?gvedakhil?ni which he established from a unique birch-bark ??rad? manuscript: Isidor Scheftelowitz, Die Apokryphen des ?gveda. [Indische Forschungen. Heft 1.] Breslau 1906. [Reprint Hildesheim 1966]. The variant readings of the Sa?hit? text from this manuscript - misjudged by M. M?ller and therefore not reported in M?ller's and Aufrecht's respective editions - were published in 1907 together with a series of valuable observations regarding phonological and orthographical peculiarities of the textual transmission of the RV: Isidor Scheftelowitz, Zur Textkritik und Lautlehre des ?gveda. WZKM 21 (1907): 85-142. https://archive.org/details/WienerZeitschriftFrDieKundeDesMorgenlandes Regards, WS 2015-08-11 19:35 GMT+02:00 David and Nancy Reigle : > The first thing that was noticed by the editor of the the ??val?yana-Sa > ?hit?, B. B. Chaubey, is that the khilas, long known and often published > as an appendix to editions of the ?gveda, are almost all found > incorporated in the hymns of the ??val?yana recension. They are apocrypha > only for the ??kala recension. They are genuine ?gveda mantras, as shown > by their presence within the ??val?yana-Sa?hit?. > > Both of the newly published recensions include their own pada-p??ha. In > his extensive introduction, Chaubey stated that the 212 additional mantras > not found in ??kala recension are not given in ??val?yana pada-p??ha > manuscripts. He therefore, after learning its different method of showing > the avagraha, supplied them himself (p. 57). > > Here is my question, that perhaps someone in India with access either to > the manuscripts or to the editors can answer. In hymn 10.121 addressed to > hira?ya-garbha, the last verse, verse 10, brings in Praj?pati. Vedic > scholars such as Jan Gonda have questioned the authenticity of this verse > because its words are not separated in the pada-p??ha (WZKS 27, 1983, p. > 31). In both of the newly published recensions, this verse has a full > pada-p??ha. So, was the pada-p??ha for this verse prepared and added by > Chaubey to his edition of the ??val?yana recension? And perhaps then > copied by Amal Dhari Singh Gautam for his edition of the ???kh?yana > recension? Or is it in fact found in manuscripts of the pada-p??ha of the > ??val?yana and/or the ???kh?yana recension? > > Best regards, > > David Reigle > Colorado, U.S.A. > > > On Mon, Aug 10, 2015 at 3:07 PM, David and Nancy Reigle < > dnreigle at gmail.com> wrote: > >> As most of you know, two recensions of the ?gveda in addition to the >> long standard ??kala/??kalya recension have become available in the last >> several years. They are: >> >> ??val?yana-Sa?hit? of the ?gveda, ed. B. B. Chaubey, 2 vols., New Delhi: >> Indira Gandhi National Centre for the Arts, 2009. >> >> The ?gveda Sa?hit? of ???kh?yana-??kh?, ed. Amal Dhari Singh Gautam, 4 >> vols., Ujjain: Maharshi Sandipani Rashtriya Veda Vidya Pratishthan, >> 2012-2013. >> >> I would be very interested in comments from the Vedic scholars here about >> the significance of having two additional recensions of the ?gveda. In >> particular, I was earlier informed that an 1897 book in Danish by Hans >> Vodskov, Rig-veda og Edda, has a chapter attempting to demonstrate that the >> ?gveda we have shows a very late style. My informant noted that Vodskov's >> views about the late style of the ??kala recension have not been adopted >> by Vedic scholars. Now that we have two additional recensions, almost >> identical to the ??kala recension, I assume that this would be >> significant evidence for an early, unchanged style. >> >> As for linguistic peculiarities, as opposed to stylistic ones, Madhav >> Deshpande had noted in his 1993 book, Sanskrit & Prakrit: Sociolinguistic >> Issues, p. 134: "In most recent discussions, a historical fact of utmost >> importance is often overlooked, namely that the text of the ?gveda that >> we have today is not necessarily the original ?gveda. What we have is >> only one recension (sa?hit?) of the ?gveda compiled several centuries >> after the hymns were composed by the ?gvedic sages." >> >> Now we have three recensions, together presumably bringing us closer to >> the original ?gveda. >> >> Best regards, >> >> David Reigle >> Colorado, U.S.A. >> > > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing > committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or > unsubscribe) > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From christophe.vielle at uclouvain.be Wed Aug 12 08:25:05 2015 From: christophe.vielle at uclouvain.be (Christophe Vielle) Date: Wed, 12 Aug 15 10:25:05 +0200 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Texts and bodily metaphors In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <0B3B6424-BF80-4172-8DF9-25802752E1D2@uclouvain.be> Thank you for this reference (with Gered?o rendering grantha). So (I have not here the book at hand), nothing on the Vedas in J. Fenicio's work (1609? He arrived in India in 1584) ? (cf. The Livro da Seita dos Indios Orientais (Brit. Mus. MS. Sloane 1820) of Father Jacobo Fenicio , s.j., edited with and introduction and notes by Jarl Charpentier, Uppsala : Almqvist & Wiksells, 1933, Arbeten utgivna med undest?d av Vilhelm Ekmans Universitetsfond 40). Note that the (Bhagavad-)G?t? (with the Avadh?ta-G?t?) is already presented and discussed as the most sacred book of the brahmins in a Jesuit letter of 1560. See https://books.google.be/books?id=qP87AAAAcAAJ pp. 376 sq. ("Guitaa & Detatriaa") (cf. Charpentier p. xliv) Best wishes, Christophe Vielle Le 11 ao?t 2015 ? 02:03, Will Sweetman a ?crit : > Dear all > > I'm working on some early European accounts of the Vedas including what I think is the very first reference to the Vedas in a European text. This was published in Couto's Da Asia, but is in fact taken from another work written by an Augustinian friar Agostinho de Azevedo in 1603. Azevedo (in my translation) says that the Brahmins: > > "have many books in their Latin, which they call Gered?o which contain everything they are to believe, and all the ceremonies they are to perform. These books are divided into bodies [corpos], limbs [membros] and joints [articulos], whose originals are those they call Veados, which are divided into four parts, and these further into fifty-two parts in the following manner: six which they call Xastra, which are the bodies, eighteen which they call Purana, which are the limbs, twenty-eight called Agamon which are the joints." > > This formulation, with variations, is repeated in many subsequent European sources. The terms for the divisions (corpos,membros, articulos), which are not so often repeated, have usually been translated more literally as bodies, members and articles (or articulations). > > I'm curious as to whether anyone is aware of an Indian source which uses these metaphors. I'm aware, of course of the Ved??gas, but I think the six here are clearly meant to be the ??stras/dar?anas. This may indicate some muddling?or sheer invention?on Azevedo's part, but in other instances I've found it best to look first for an Indian source or idea an early European writer may be following rather than immediately assuming error or invention, so I'd welcome any leads and/or comments on translating membros as limbs and articulos as joints. "Articles" for the latter seems to me to be a particularly unilluminating translation. > > Best > > Will > > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) ??????????????????? Christophe Vielle Louvain-la-Neuve -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dipak.d2004 at gmail.com Wed Aug 12 08:53:52 2015 From: dipak.d2004 at gmail.com (Dipak Bhattacharya) Date: Wed, 12 Aug 15 14:23:52 +0530 Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_[INDOLOGY]=09Two_additional_recensions_of_the_=E1=B9=9Agveda_available?= In-Reply-To: Message-ID: 12.08.15 The first two paragraphs cited from the mail, I think, leaves the importance of the ??val?yana Sa?hit? as to the recensional history of the RV to question. The khilas did not originally belong to the RV as represented by the Vulgate ie ??kala-Sa?hit?. Unless we find any reason (violence, obnoxious practice) for their exclusion from an older version at a later date, the hymns have to be regarded as originally alien to the RV. Even the ?aunak?ya Sa?hit? relegates them to its 20th k???a, regarded as apocryphal by many. And the Paippal?da-Sa?hit? does not incorporate them with it. The ??val?yana-Sa?hit??s liberal inclusion shows its emergence in later slack times. Added problems with the new recension could have been any liberty taken by the editor. There would not be any problem in such case if the exact readings and their difference, if any, from the manuscripts are furnished by the editor. Did late Professor Chaubey, a longtime friend and colleague of mine, give the MS readings for 10.121.10? Any decision has to be taken on that basis. What we all are prone to do is leaving the answers to such questions equivocal. And exactly this point was raised by me sometime as a practice that must be avoided. I think it is imperative that someone took up the edition for study. I paid only a cursory glance which did not lead to any noticeable defect. I hope none will be discovered. Still, a study is called for. Best Dipak Bhattacharya? On Tue, Aug 11, 2015 at 11:05 PM, David and Nancy Reigle wrote: > The first thing that was noticed by the editor of the the ??val?yana-Sa > ?hit?, B. B. Chaubey, is that the khilas, long known and often published > as an appendix to editions of the ?gveda, are almost all found > incorporated in the hymns of the ??val?yana recension. They are apocrypha > only for the ??kala recension. They are genuine ?gveda mantras, as shown > by their presence within the ??val?yana-Sa?hit?. > > Both of the newly published recensions include their own pada-p??ha. In > his extensive introduction, Chaubey stated that the 212 additional mantras > not found in ??kala recension are not given in ??val?yana pada-p??ha > manuscripts. He therefore, after learning its different method of showing > the avagraha, supplied them himself (p. 57). > > Here is my question, that perhaps someone in India with access either to > the manuscripts or to the editors can answer. In hymn 10.121 addressed to > hira?ya-garbha, the last verse, verse 10, brings in Praj?pati. Vedic > scholars such as Jan Gonda have questioned the authenticity of this verse > because its words are not separated in the pada-p??ha (WZKS 27, 1983, p. > 31). In both of the newly published recensions, this verse has a full > pada-p??ha. So, was the pada-p??ha for this verse prepared and added by > Chaubey to his edition of the ??val?yana recension? And perhaps then > copied by Amal Dhari Singh Gautam for his edition of the ???kh?yana > recension? Or is it in fact found in manuscripts of the pada-p??ha of the > ??val?yana and/or the ???kh?yana recension? > > Best regards, > > David Reigle > Colorado, U.S.A. > > > On Mon, Aug 10, 2015 at 3:07 PM, David and Nancy Reigle < > dnreigle at gmail.com> wrote: > >> As most of you know, two recensions of the ?gveda in addition to the >> long standard ??kala/??kalya recension have become available in the last >> several years. They are: >> >> ??val?yana-Sa?hit? of the ?gveda, ed. B. B. Chaubey, 2 vols., New Delhi: >> Indira Gandhi National Centre for the Arts, 2009. >> >> The ?gveda Sa?hit? of ???kh?yana-??kh?, ed. Amal Dhari Singh Gautam, 4 >> vols., Ujjain: Maharshi Sandipani Rashtriya Veda Vidya Pratishthan, >> 2012-2013. >> >> I would be very interested in comments from the Vedic scholars here about >> the significance of having two additional recensions of the ?gveda. In >> particular, I was earlier informed that an 1897 book in Danish by Hans >> Vodskov, Rig-veda og Edda, has a chapter attempting to demonstrate that the >> ?gveda we have shows a very late style. My informant noted that Vodskov's >> views about the late style of the ??kala recension have not been adopted >> by Vedic scholars. Now that we have two additional recensions, almost >> identical to the ??kala recension, I assume that this would be >> significant evidence for an early, unchanged style. >> >> As for linguistic peculiarities, as opposed to stylistic ones, Madhav >> Deshpande had noted in his 1993 book, Sanskrit & Prakrit: Sociolinguistic >> Issues, p. 134: "In most recent discussions, a historical fact of utmost >> importance is often overlooked, namely that the text of the ?gveda that >> we have today is not necessarily the original ?gveda. What we have is >> only one recension (sa?hit?) of the ?gveda compiled several centuries >> after the hymns were composed by the ?gvedic sages." >> >> Now we have three recensions, together presumably bringing us closer to >> the original ?gveda. >> >> Best regards, >> >> David Reigle >> Colorado, U.S.A. >> > > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing > committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or > unsubscribe) > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From will.sweetman at gmail.com Wed Aug 12 23:49:04 2015 From: will.sweetman at gmail.com (Will Sweetman) Date: Thu, 13 Aug 15 11:49:04 +1200 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Texts and bodily metaphors In-Reply-To: <0B3B6424-BF80-4172-8DF9-25802752E1D2@uclouvain.be> Message-ID: Thanks, all, for your comments. Christophe ? I think Fenicio mentions the term Veda only in relation to a Vedic mantra recited while consuming panchagavya (I think - I have only my notes on Charpentier's edition (does anyone have a pdf?), which in any case according to Paolo Aranha omits a large part of the original ms). But Ludo Rocher argues (*Puranas*, 1986: 11) that Fenicio's primary sources were puranic, and that this is even made explicit in the title of a Latin translation of Fenicio: *Collectio omnium dogmatum & arcanorum ex Puranis seu libris Canonicis paganorum Indianorum*... Part of my argument in the article I'm preparing is that despite many references to the Vedas as the most authoritative Indian sacred texts, other texts were almost invariably the actual source. Azevedo, for instance, having mentioned the Vedas as the original texts then goes on to cite exclusively Tamil sources (*Tirumantiram*, *Tiruv?cakam*, *Tiv?karam*, *Tirukku?a?* and another Tamil text on caste). Thanks also for the references to the texts acquired by the Jesuits (stolen on their behalf by a convert, it appears) in the 1550s. On the basis of fragments of translations of these done by the convert (a Brahmin baptised as Manuel Olivera) which were sent to Europe and are extant in Portugal and Goa, Ines Zupanov and Angela Barreto Xavier have identified these as J??ne?vara?s Marathi version of Bhagavad-G?t?, a purana by N?mdev, and parts of the Mah?bh?rata. Also in Portugal are three manuscripts containing parts of the Mah?bh?rata and R?may??a in Konkani prose and Marathi verse, transliterated into Roman script by Jesuits around the same period. I think there is likely some connection here, but I'm not aware of anyone who's explored it. Best wishes Will On 12 August 2015 at 20:25, Christophe Vielle < christophe.vielle at uclouvain.be> wrote: > Thank you for this reference (with Gered?o rendering grantha). > > So (I have not here the book at hand), nothing on the Vedas in J. > Fenicio's work (1609? He arrived in India in 1584) ? (cf. *The Livro da > Seita dos Indios Orientais (Brit. Mus. MS. Sloane 1820) of Father Jacobo > Fenicio , s.j.*, edited with and introduction and notes by Jarl > Charpentier, Uppsala : Almqvist & Wiksells, 1933, Arbeten utgivna med > undest?d av Vilhelm Ekmans Universitetsfond 40). > > Note that the (Bhagavad-)G?t? (with the Avadh?ta-G?t?) is already > presented and discussed as the most sacred book of the brahmins in a Jesuit > letter of 1560. > See https://books.google.be/books?id=qP87AAAAcAAJ > pp. 376 sq. ("Guitaa & Detatriaa") (cf. Charpentier p. xliv) > > Best wishes, > > Christophe Vielle > > Le 11 ao?t 2015 ? 02:03, Will Sweetman a ?crit : > > Dear all > > I'm working on some early European accounts of the Vedas including what I > think is the very first reference to the Vedas in a European text. This was > published in Couto's *Da Asia,* but is in fact taken from another work > written by an Augustinian friar Agostinho de Azevedo in 1603. Azevedo (in > my translation) says that the Brahmins: > > "have many books in their Latin, which they call Gered?o which contain > everything they are to believe, and all the ceremonies they are to perform. > These books are divided into bodies [corpos], limbs [membros] and joints > [articulos], whose originals are those they call Veados, which are divided > into four parts, and these further into fifty-two parts in the following > manner: six which they call Xastra, which are the bodies, eighteen which > they call Purana, which are the limbs, twenty-eight called Agamon which are > the joints." > > This formulation, with variations, is repeated in many subsequent European > sources. The terms for the divisions (corpos,membros, articulos), which are > not so often repeated, have usually been translated more literally as > bodies, members and articles (or articulations). > > I'm curious as to whether anyone is aware of an Indian source which uses > these metaphors. I'm aware, of course of the Ved??gas, but I think the six > here are clearly meant to be the ??stras/dar?anas. This may indicate some > muddling?or sheer invention?on Azevedo's part, but in other instances I've > found it best to look first for an Indian source or idea an early European > writer may be following rather than immediately assuming error or > invention, so I'd welcome any leads and/or comments on translating membros > as limbs and articulos as joints. "Articles" for the latter seems to me to > be a particularly unilluminating translation. > > Best > > Will > > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing > committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or > unsubscribe) > > > ??????????????????? > Christophe Vielle > Louvain-la-Neuve > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jpo at uts.cc.utexas.edu Thu Aug 13 10:53:49 2015 From: jpo at uts.cc.utexas.edu (Patrick Olivelle) Date: Thu, 13 Aug 15 05:53:49 -0500 Subject: [INDOLOGY] New Book Message-ID: <1C1B7886-8842-456E-8FC6-CA8E80944E0F@uts.cc.utexas.edu> With apologies for cross posting. This is a new book edited by me and Mark McClish and David Brick. It is a Sanskrit Dictionary of Indian Law and Statecraft, with words, their meaning(s), and a selection of passages in which the words occur. You can see it at: http://www.primusbooks.com/showbookdetail.asp?bookid=105 With best wishes, Patrick From dnreigle at gmail.com Thu Aug 13 11:51:23 2015 From: dnreigle at gmail.com (David and Nancy Reigle) Date: Thu, 13 Aug 15 05:51:23 -0600 Subject: [INDOLOGY] New Book In-Reply-To: <1C1B7886-8842-456E-8FC6-CA8E80944E0F@uts.cc.utexas.edu> Message-ID: This Dictionary looks very valuable, Patrick. Perhaps you could give us a sample entry from it, such as ?nv?k?ik? (from Kau?ilya's Artha??stra). Thanks. Best regards, David Reigle Colorado, U.S.A. On Thu, Aug 13, 2015 at 4:53 AM, Patrick Olivelle wrote: > With apologies for cross posting. This is a new book edited by me and Mark > McClish and David Brick. It is a Sanskrit Dictionary of Indian Law and > Statecraft, with words, their meaning(s), and a selection of passages in > which the words occur. You can see it at: > > http://www.primusbooks.com/showbookdetail.asp?bookid=105 > > With best wishes, > > Patrick > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing > committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or > unsubscribe) > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Fleming_b4 at hotmail.com Thu Aug 13 11:51:48 2015 From: Fleming_b4 at hotmail.com (Benjamin Fleming) Date: Thu, 13 Aug 15 07:51:48 -0400 Subject: [INDOLOGY] [RISA-L LIST] New Book Message-ID: Great. Congratulations. A welcome and needed work. Will a digital, searchable and or online version become available? I find paper dictionaries are cumbersome for travel. Also the "buy now" button on the link did not function for me. Best, B. Fleming On August 13, 2015, at 7:03 AM, Patrick Olivelle wrote: With apologies for cross posting. This is a new book edited by me and Mark McClish and David Brick. It is a Sanskrit Dictionary of Indian Law and Statecraft, with words, their meaning(s), and a selection of passages in which the words occur. You can see it at: http://www.primusbooks.com/showbookdetail.asp?bookid=105 With best wishes, Patrick _______________________________________________ RISA-L mailing list RISA-L at lists.sandiego.edu https://lists.sandiego.edu/mailman/listinfo/risa-l -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lavanyavemsani at gmail.com Thu Aug 13 16:39:55 2015 From: lavanyavemsani at gmail.com (Lavanya Vemsani) Date: Thu, 13 Aug 15 12:39:55 -0400 Subject: [INDOLOGY] INDOLOGY Digest, Vol 31, Issue 13 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <508426CB-77B5-4169-88F0-74D807623346@gmail.com> Hello Will, I don't know what the Vedic studies folks think of this, but it seems that the source texts for Vedanta are the source texts- Prasthana trayi along with a number of other assorted texts including some regional texts also. Vedas are an original source, but they are not source texts. They are only referred when it was necessary to highlight original concepts, which was not very frequent. Nalayira divya prabandham is also original text. The original texts and source texts may have been used by later theologians without much concern for classifications. Thank you, Lavanya Sent from my iPhone > On Aug 13, 2015, at 12:00 PM, indology-request at list.indology.info wrote: > > Send INDOLOGY mailing list submissions to > indology at list.indology.info > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://list.indology.info/mailman/listinfo/indology_list.indology.info > > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > indology-request at list.indology.info > > You can reach the person managing the list at > indology-owner at list.indology.info > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of INDOLOGY digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: Texts and bodily metaphors (Will Sweetman) > 2. New Book (Patrick Olivelle) > 3. Re: New Book (David and Nancy Reigle) > 4. Re: [RISA-L LIST] New Book (Benjamin Fleming) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2015 11:49:04 +1200 > From: Will Sweetman > To: Christophe Vielle , Indology > > Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] Texts and bodily metaphors > Message-ID: > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > Thanks, all, for your comments. > > Christophe ? I think Fenicio mentions the term Veda only in relation to a > Vedic mantra recited while consuming panchagavya (I think - I have only my > notes on Charpentier's edition (does anyone have a pdf?), which in any case > according to Paolo Aranha omits a large part of the original ms). But Ludo > Rocher argues (*Puranas*, 1986: 11) that Fenicio's primary sources were > puranic, and that this is even made explicit in the title of a Latin > translation of Fenicio: *Collectio omnium dogmatum & arcanorum ex Puranis > seu libris Canonicis paganorum Indianorum*... > > Part of my argument in the article I'm preparing is that despite many > references to the Vedas as the most authoritative Indian sacred texts, > other texts were almost invariably the actual source. Azevedo, for > instance, having mentioned the Vedas as the original texts then goes on to > cite exclusively Tamil sources (*Tirumantiram*, *Tiruv?cakam*, *Tiv?karam*, > *Tirukku?a?* and another Tamil text on caste). > > Thanks also for the references to the texts acquired by the Jesuits (stolen > on their behalf by a convert, it appears) in the 1550s. On the basis of > fragments of translations of these done by the convert (a Brahmin baptised > as Manuel Olivera) which were sent to Europe and are extant in Portugal and > Goa, Ines Zupanov and Angela Barreto Xavier have identified these as > J??ne?vara?s Marathi version of Bhagavad-G?t?, a purana by N?mdev, and > parts of the Mah?bh?rata. Also in Portugal are three manuscripts > containing parts of the Mah?bh?rata and R?may??a in Konkani prose and > Marathi verse, transliterated into Roman script by Jesuits around the same > period. I think there is likely some connection here, but I'm not aware of > anyone who's explored it. > > Best wishes > > Will > > > On 12 August 2015 at 20:25, Christophe Vielle < > christophe.vielle at uclouvain.be> wrote: > >> Thank you for this reference (with Gered?o rendering grantha). >> >> So (I have not here the book at hand), nothing on the Vedas in J. >> Fenicio's work (1609? He arrived in India in 1584) ? (cf. *The Livro da >> Seita dos Indios Orientais (Brit. Mus. MS. Sloane 1820) of Father Jacobo >> Fenicio , s.j.*, edited with and introduction and notes by Jarl >> Charpentier, Uppsala : Almqvist & Wiksells, 1933, Arbeten utgivna med >> undest?d av Vilhelm Ekmans Universitetsfond 40). >> >> Note that the (Bhagavad-)G?t? (with the Avadh?ta-G?t?) is already >> presented and discussed as the most sacred book of the brahmins in a Jesuit >> letter of 1560. >> See https://books.google.be/books?id=qP87AAAAcAAJ >> pp. 376 sq. ("Guitaa & Detatriaa") (cf. Charpentier p. xliv) >> >> Best wishes, >> >> Christophe Vielle >> >> Le 11 ao?t 2015 ? 02:03, Will Sweetman a ?crit : >> >> Dear all >> >> I'm working on some early European accounts of the Vedas including what I >> think is the very first reference to the Vedas in a European text. This was >> published in Couto's *Da Asia,* but is in fact taken from another work >> written by an Augustinian friar Agostinho de Azevedo in 1603. Azevedo (in >> my translation) says that the Brahmins: >> >> "have many books in their Latin, which they call Gered?o which contain >> everything they are to believe, and all the ceremonies they are to perform. >> These books are divided into bodies [corpos], limbs [membros] and joints >> [articulos], whose originals are those they call Veados, which are divided >> into four parts, and these further into fifty-two parts in the following >> manner: six which they call Xastra, which are the bodies, eighteen which >> they call Purana, which are the limbs, twenty-eight called Agamon which are >> the joints." >> >> This formulation, with variations, is repeated in many subsequent European >> sources. The terms for the divisions (corpos,membros, articulos), which are >> not so often repeated, have usually been translated more literally as >> bodies, members and articles (or articulations). >> >> I'm curious as to whether anyone is aware of an Indian source which uses >> these metaphors. I'm aware, of course of the Ved??gas, but I think the six >> here are clearly meant to be the ??stras/dar?anas. This may indicate some >> muddling?or sheer invention?on Azevedo's part, but in other instances I've >> found it best to look first for an Indian source or idea an early European >> writer may be following rather than immediately assuming error or >> invention, so I'd welcome any leads and/or comments on translating membros >> as limbs and articulos as joints. "Articles" for the latter seems to me to >> be a particularly unilluminating translation. >> >> Best >> >> Will >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> INDOLOGY mailing list >> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info >> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing >> committee) >> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or >> unsubscribe) >> >> >> ??????????????????? >> Christophe Vielle >> Louvain-la-Neuve > From jpo at uts.cc.utexas.edu Fri Aug 14 00:53:24 2015 From: jpo at uts.cc.utexas.edu (Patrick Olivelle) Date: Thu, 13 Aug 15 19:53:24 -0500 Subject: [INDOLOGY] New Book In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <0B7B6636-741B-4EBA-8259-FFA9C44EFD29@uts.cc.utexas.edu> Here is a sample -- sorry the formatting does not quite transfer. We do not have anv?k?ik? because we tried to limit ourselves to law and statecraft proper, and not venture in to philosophy etc. I will let Primus know about the issue with the BUY button. Thanks. Patrick ?????kopaka. adj.?inciting a revolt, rebellious, leading to a revolt. A? 1.18.1: ?????? ????????? ??????????????????? ?????? ???????? ????????????? ??????? ?????????????????????????????? ?? A? 4.11.11: ???????????????????????????? ?????????????????? ????????????????????? ?? ?????????????????? ??????? ?? See kopa. ?????kopaja. adj.?of or relating to royal vices originating from anger; same as krodhaja; opposed to k?maja. A? 8.3.4?5: ??????????????: ???-????????????: ? ???: ???? ??????? ?? ??????kopya. adj.?of or relating to a coin that ought to be declared counterfeit or inauthentic. A? 4.1.44: ??????????? ??????? ???????????????? ?????? ????????????? ????????? ????? ?? See ?kup #2. ????ko?a. m.?1. treasury. A? 2.8.1: ?????????: ??????????: ?? MDh 7.65: ??????? ???? ?????? ????? ??????? ?????? ? ????? ??????????? ?? ???? ???????????? ?? One of the seven prak?tis in a kingdom. A? 6.1.1: ?????????????????????-??????????????? ???????: ?? MDh 9.294: ????????????? ???? ???????? ???????? ????????? ? ???? ???????? ??????? ?????? ???????????? ???2. ordeal using sacred water. YDh 2.95: ?????????????? ???? ???? ????????? ????????? ?? The defendant drinks water with which the images of fierce deities have been bathed. If after fourteen days no calamity befalls the defendant, he is acquitted. YDh 2.112?13: ?????????????????????? ?????????????????? ? ????????? ?????????????? ??? ?? ????????????? ?? ???????????????????? ???? ?? ?????????? ? ?????? ????? ???? ? ?????? ??????? ????? ?? See divya. ???????ko?ag?ha. m.?building housing the treasury. A? 2.5.1: ???????? ??????? ???????? ?????????? ?????????????????? ?????????? ? ??????? ?? A? 2.5.3: ???????????????????? ???????????????? ?????????????????????? ??????? ??????? ???????? ?? ?? See kupyag?ha, ko??h?g?ra, pa?yag?ha, bh????g?ra. ??????????ko?adh?rin. m.?official in charge of the treasury. ViDhP 2.24.19?20: ?????? ??????????? ?????????????: ? ??????? ????? ?????: ??? ?????????? ?: ?? ???????????ko??dhyak?a. m.?superintendent of the treasury, treasurer. A? 2.11.1: ??????????: ???????????? ????? ???? ????? ?????? ?? ?????????????????: ?????-?????????? ?? R?jT 1.119: ???????????? ?????????: ??????????????????: ? ???: ?????? ??????: ???? ????????????? ?? See adhyak?a. ??????????ko??h?g?ra. n. storehouse. A? 2.5.1: ???????? ??????? ???????? ?????????? ?????????????????? ?????????? ? ??????? ?? A? 2.27.8: ????????? ???????? ?????????? ?????? ?? ???? ???????? ?? MDh 9.280: ?????????????????-??????????????? ? ???????????????????? ????????????????? ?? See kupyag?ha, ko?ag?ha, pa?yag?ha, bh????g?ra. ?????????????????ko??h?g?r?dhyak?a. m. superintendent in charge of the ko??h?g?ra. A? 2.15.1: ????????????????: ??????????????????????????????????-??????????????????????????????????????????????????? ?? See adhyak?a. ???????????kau?as?k?ya. n.?false or perjured testimony. MDh 8.117: ??????? ????????????? ?? ??????????? ???? ????? ? ???????????? ???????? ???? ????????? ????? ?? K?tSm 151: ???? ??????????? ? ???? ?? ????????? ?? See k??as?k?in. ??????????kau?umbika. m.?servant who oversees the affairs of a family. NSm 5.22: ?????????????? ?? ???????????????? ?????? ? ???????????? ?????? ? ? ?????????? ?????? ?? Same as adhikarmakara. See ku?umbin. ????????kauttika. m.?tenant who has obtained a kutt? kind of lease. SarVi 165: ?? ??????? ???????? ? ??????????????????????????????????????????????-???? ? ???? ??????: ? ??????????? ???????: ?? See kutt?. On Aug 13, 2015, at 6:51 AM, David and Nancy Reigle wrote: > This Dictionary looks very valuable, Patrick. Perhaps you could give us a sample entry from it, such as ?nv?k?ik? (from Kau?ilya's Artha??stra). Thanks. > > Best regards, > > David Reigle > Colorado, U.S.A. > > On Thu, Aug 13, 2015 at 4:53 AM, Patrick Olivelle wrote: > With apologies for cross posting. This is a new book edited by me and Mark McClish and David Brick. It is a Sanskrit Dictionary of Indian Law and Statecraft, with words, their meaning(s), and a selection of passages in which the words occur. You can see it at: > > http://www.primusbooks.com/showbookdetail.asp?bookid=105 > > With best wishes, > > Patrick > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jpo at uts.cc.utexas.edu Fri Aug 14 00:56:02 2015 From: jpo at uts.cc.utexas.edu (Patrick Olivelle) Date: Thu, 13 Aug 15 19:56:02 -0500 Subject: [INDOLOGY] [RISA-L LIST] New Book In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <2B380509-DE98-42DB-AE61-63B589C1548E@uts.cc.utexas.edu> Thanks. Not sure about digital versions, but I am sure some entrepreneur will do not make one available soon!! On Aug 13, 2015, at 6:51 AM, Benjamin Fleming wrote: > Great. Congratulations. A welcome and needed work. Will a digital, searchable and or online version become available? I find paper dictionaries are cumbersome for travel. Also the "buy now" button on the link did not function for me. > > Best, > B. Fleming > > > > On August 13, 2015, at 7:03 AM, Patrick Olivelle wrote: > > With apologies for cross posting. This is a new book edited by me and Mark McClish and David Brick. It is a Sanskrit Dictionary of Indian Law and Statecraft, with words, their meaning(s), and a selection of passages in which the words occur. You can see it at: > > http://www.primusbooks.com/showbookdetail.asp?bookid=105 > > With best wishes, > > Patrick > _______________________________________________ > RISA-L mailing list > RISA-L at lists.sandiego.edu > https://lists.sandiego.edu/mailman/listinfo/risa-l > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dnreigle at gmail.com Fri Aug 14 03:13:57 2015 From: dnreigle at gmail.com (David and Nancy Reigle) Date: Thu, 13 Aug 15 21:13:57 -0600 Subject: [INDOLOGY] New Book In-Reply-To: <0B7B6636-741B-4EBA-8259-FFA9C44EFD29@uts.cc.utexas.edu> Message-ID: Thank you, Patrick, for this nice full sample. I thought that perhaps you might not include ?nv?k?ik? in this dictionary, for the reason you stated. In the sample you provided, the example passages where the word is used are very helpful. Dictionaries of Sanskrit technical terms in specialized subject areas such as this are much needed. Best regards, David Reigle 2015-08-13 18:53 GMT-06:00 Patrick Olivelle : > Here is a sample -- sorry the formatting does not quite transfer. We do > not have anv?k?ik? because we tried to limit ourselves to law and > statecraft proper, and not venture in to philosophy etc. I will let Primus > know about the issue with the BUY button. Thanks. > > Patrick > > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From wujastyk at gmail.com Fri Aug 14 04:10:11 2015 From: wujastyk at gmail.com (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Thu, 13 Aug 15 22:10:11 -0600 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Report of the 2015 Sanskrit Commission Message-ID: Apparently the report is out. This brief reference makes it sound interesting and balanced. Does anyone have a copy yet? Dominik Wujastyk -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From a.murugaiyan at wanadoo.fr Fri Aug 14 11:10:03 2015 From: a.murugaiyan at wanadoo.fr (a.murugaiyan) Date: Fri, 14 Aug 15 13:10:03 +0200 Subject: [INDOLOGY] TWELFTH INTERNATIONAL WORKSHOP ON TAMIL EPIGRAPHY- Thanjavur, Tamil Nadu, India, 1-11 December 2015 In-Reply-To: <55CDCAD6.5000300@wanadoo.fr> Message-ID: <55CDCC8B.9020909@wanadoo.fr> Dear list, We thank you for posting the information on the forthcoming Tamil epigraphy workshop. Sincerely. A. Murugaiyan *TWELFTH INTERNATIONAL WORKSHOP ON TAMIL EPIGRAPHY* /Tamil Epigraphy: Corpus Analysis, Database Construction and Information Retrieval / *Thanjavur, Tamil Nadu, India, 1-11 December 2015* ** Jointly organised by: UMR 7528? Mondes iranien et indien, Paris; Tamil University, Thanjavur, India and Pondicherry University, Pondicherry, India ** *For more details, please see the attached flyer and the following link:* *http://www.iran-inde.cnrs.fr/spip.php?article565&lang=en * ** Appasamy Murugaiyan Coordinator EPHE-UMR 7528 Mondes iranien et indien Paris, France -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: TwelfthworkshopTamilepigraphy.pdf Type: application/pdf Size: 279003 bytes Desc: not available URL: From Rupert.Gethin at bristol.ac.uk Fri Aug 14 16:27:53 2015 From: Rupert.Gethin at bristol.ac.uk (Rupert Gethin) Date: Fri, 14 Aug 15 17:27:53 +0100 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Pali Text Society : I. B. Horner Memorial Lecture Message-ID: <55CE1709.8080303@bristol.ac.uk> Dear Colleagues, PALI TEXT SOCIETY Ingo Strauch (Universit? de Lausanne) will deliver the 16th I. B. HORNER MEMORIAL LECTURE: "G?ndh?r?, P?li and the Buddhist ?Urkanon?: The language(s) of the earliest Buddhist transmission in the light of Buddhist texts from Gandh?ra" Friday, 18 September 2015, 5.30 p.m. Room B111 (Brunei Gallery) School of Oriental and African Studies Thornhaugh Street Russell Square London WC1H OXG All are welcome ABSTRACT Since L?vi?s article ?Observations sur une langue pr?canonique du bouddhisme? (1912) and L?ders? ground-breaking study on ?Die Sprache des buddhistischen Urkanons? (1954) it can be considered as opionio communis that at least core texts of the Buddhist canonical traditions were originally composed in a language that can be described as a kind of North-Eastern Middle Indic dialect. Among these ?core texts? are certainly the Pr?timok?as?tra and karmav?can? formulae whose composition seems to go back to the earliest days of Buddhism, if not even to the time of the Buddha himself. The later linguistic diversification of this literature is usually described in terms of the division of ?Mainstream Buddhism? into various schools (nik?ya) ? each one with its own Vinaya in its peculiar language that was also paradigmatic for the language of other canonical texts. As recent research on early Buddhist manuscripts seems to show, this picture is rather simplistic and does not reflect the complex processes that accompanied the evolution of Buddhist canonical literature. Of crucial importance here are two manuscripts from the ?Bajaur Collection of Kharo??h? Manuscripts? that contain portions of canonical Vinaya material. Datable to the 1st or 2nd century CE, they belong to the earliest Buddhist manuscripts. In my lecture I will discuss their relation to known Buddhist Vinaya traditions and the implications for our understanding of the formation of the diverse Buddhist literary traditions. Best wishes, Rupert Gethin -- University of Bristol Department of Religion and Theology 3 Woodland Road Bristol BS8 1TB, UK From psdmccartney at gmail.com Fri Aug 14 23:41:38 2015 From: psdmccartney at gmail.com (patrick mccartney) Date: Sat, 15 Aug 15 09:41:38 +1000 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Hindi v Sanskrit Message-ID: An interesting article about an interesting study in Sanskrit compounds and why we prefer not to use them. http://www.financialexpress.com/article/lifestyle/science/why-we-prefer-easier-hindi-over-complicated-sanskrit-language/119387/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From glhart at berkeley.edu Sat Aug 15 00:42:11 2015 From: glhart at berkeley.edu (George Hart) Date: Fri, 14 Aug 15 17:42:11 -0700 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Hindi v Sanskrit In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <7598E1E1-99C0-49E3-B0E4-F955783BE254@berkeley.edu> Sanskrit compounds, even when they are several lines long, tend to reproduce very closely Dravidian syntactical order and usage. I remember reading a historical novel in Malayalam that had Sanskrit compounds of 10 or 15 words. Malayalis would have little trouble with these, as their own language works the same way ? all they need is to know the vocabulary, which they do. Of course, Sanskrit compounds can seem difficult if one?s native language does not mimic their syntax. Both Hindi and Sanskrit are right-branching, whereas Dravidian is left-branching. Naturally, people who speak those languages find Sanskrit compounds, which are left-branching like Dravidian languages, somewhat difficult. George Hart > On Aug 14, 2015, at 4:41 PM, patrick mccartney wrote: > > An interesting article about an interesting study in Sanskrit compounds and why we prefer not to use them. > > http://www.financialexpress.com/article/lifestyle/science/why-we-prefer-easier-hindi-over-complicated-sanskrit-language/119387/ _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From hr at ivs.edu Sat Aug 15 02:04:01 2015 From: hr at ivs.edu (Howard Resnick) Date: Sat, 15 Aug 15 04:04:01 +0200 Subject: =?utf-8?Q?[INDOLOGY]_Fwd:_[New_post]_Ashoka_University_=E2=80=93_A_Guest_Post_by_Alex_Watson?= In-Reply-To: <61038653.1727.0@wordpress.com> Message-ID: <92F67628-75AC-46D5-82DC-1CAEA080093D@ivs.edu> I just learned of Ashoka University ashoka.edu.in and was wondering if any of you have experience of, or insights on, this new school. Thanks, Howard New post on The Indian Philosophy Blog Ashoka University ? A Guest Post by Alex?Watson by Matthew Dasti Hi Everyone, Elisa noted that in the Seminar article she recently blogged about, my job title is given as 'Professor of Indian Philosophy at Ashoka University', and asked me to write about Indian Philosophy here. It was not an entirely straightforward decision to leave Harvard, but one of several factors weighing strongly in favour of Ashoka was that I will not just be teaching Sanskrit, but also ? in fact mainly ? courses on Indian Philosophy. Ashoka University has only recently come into existence; last academic year was the first year. It's India's first exclusively liberal arts University, and it promises 'An Ivy League education, right here in India'. It has attracted superb faculty and great students; every one of my colleagues and last year's visiting faculty who I have spoken to about this say that they are the best students they have taught anywhere in the world. It's surprising that they managed to recruit such good students in their first year, before any reputation could be established. Perhaps part of the reason is that students were attracted to the international faculty; and perhaps another factor was that the admissions team were picky. 1000 people applied last year and 133 were admitted. 2000 have applied for this academic year and somewhere between 160 and 300 will be admitted. The fees are high for India, but the admission process is means-blind, and out of the 133 students in the first year, 88 are on some level of scholarship. Undergraduates have to take all 12 of the 'Foundation courses' regardless of their major. One of these is called 'Indian Civilizations' which is sometimes taught by me and sometimes by people in the History department. I'm in the Philosophy department and so am responsible for the Indian Philosophy courses taken by those majoring in Philosophy, in PPE, or in an unrelated subject who choose to take an Indian Philosophy course as an elective. I'm offering six courses in Indian Philosophy. Neither the number six, nor the titles and content of these are in any way set in stone yet. I'll be rolling them out at the rate of one or two per term for the next two or three years. But the titles (with course descriptions on the website) that I've come up with so far are: Introduction to Indian Philosophy Buddhist Philosophy Ved?nta Ny?ya and Vai?e?ika Indian Philosophy of Religion S??khya, Yoga and ?aivismAs I say, I may decide to divide up the material differently, for example having more courses centered round issues than dar?anas. And I want to make room for more M?m??s? and Jainism which look to be too marginalized by that categorization.Out of interest, does anyone know of other Philosophy departments where undergraduates can take as many as six courses in Indian Philosophy?A great feature of Ashoka is that it is new enough and small enough that faculty have complete freedom in designing their courses and the paths that undergraduates in their subject can take. I've been reading a lot recently about the 'destruction' (yes I've seen that word used!) of the academic profession in the UK as a result of takeover by management consultants and business ethos. It feels a long way from that here.India is obviously a great place to study and work on Indian Philosophy. I intermittently find myself pleasantly reminded of how much expertise in Indian Philosophy exists here. One recent example was the conference at IIAS, Shimla organized by Arindam Chakrabarti on 'God, No-God and the Argumentative Indian.' One of the things I'd like to do at Ashoka is organize workshops, seminars and conferences that bring together people working on Sanskrit/Indian Philosophy in India with those working on it in universities outside India. It's easy to forget how much expertise exists here, because of how rarely the two worlds overlap. To give just one example, I wonder if there is anyone outside India who can read such a wide range of Indian philosophical texts in Sanskrit as quickly and accurately as Mani Dravida? And Asia, incidentally, affords plenty of opportunity to interact with people working on Western Philosophy as well. I enjoyed a great workshop at NYU Abu Dhabi in April organized by Jonardon and Gabe Rabin at which four members of the NYU Abu Dhabi philosophy department were joined by people working on Analytic Philosophy and History of Western Philosophy from Ashoka (Kranti Saran), Manipal (in Karnataka), Turkey and the Lebanon. I was interested to read Malcolm's post about Yale-NUS and I look forward to some tie-ups between them and Ashoka. Matthew Dasti | August 14, 2015 at 1:48 pm | Categories: Uncategorized | URL: http://wp.me/p486Wp-rR Comment See all comments Unsubscribe to no longer receive posts from The Indian Philosophy Blog. Change your email settings at Manage Subscriptions . Trouble clicking? Copy and paste this URL into your browser: http://indianphilosophyblog.org/2015/08/14/ashoka-university-a-guest-post-by-alex-watson/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From glhart at berkeley.edu Sat Aug 15 03:09:51 2015 From: glhart at berkeley.edu (George Hart) Date: Fri, 14 Aug 15 20:09:51 -0700 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Hindi v Sanskrit In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <8CFC5994-DBEF-443E-9263-96F7947A70D0@berkeley.edu> (Sorry?I should correct this ? I meant Hindi and English, not Hindi and Sanskrit). Sanskrit compounds, even when they are several lines long, tend to reproduce very closely Dravidian syntactical order and usage. I remember reading a historical novel in Malayalam that had Sanskrit compounds of 10 or 15 words. Malayalis would have little trouble with these, as their own language works the same way ? all they need is to know the vocabulary, which they do. Of course, Sanskrit compounds can seem difficult if one?s native language does not mimic their syntax. Both Hindi and English are right-branching, whereas Dravidian is left-branching. Naturally, people who speak those languages find Sanskrit compounds, which are left-branching like Dravidian languages, somewhat difficult. George Hart > On Aug 14, 2015, at 4:41 PM, patrick mccartney > wrote: > > An interesting article about an interesting study in Sanskrit compounds and why we prefer not to use them. > > http://www.financialexpress.com/article/lifestyle/science/why-we-prefer-easier-hindi-over-complicated-sanskrit-language/119387/ _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dipak.d2004 at gmail.com Sat Aug 15 04:08:47 2015 From: dipak.d2004 at gmail.com (Dipak Bhattacharya) Date: Sat, 15 Aug 15 09:38:47 +0530 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Hindi v Sanskrit In-Reply-To: Message-ID: The article begins '*Though derived from the same script*, we tend to opt for much easier Hindi language than Sanskrit'. Hindi and Sanskrit are languages not scripts. One may give a thought to whether the article should be seriously taken. Best DB On Sat, Aug 15, 2015 at 5:11 AM, patrick mccartney wrote: > An interesting article about an interesting study in Sanskrit compounds > and why we prefer not to use them. > > > http://www.financialexpress.com/article/lifestyle/science/why-we-prefer-easier-hindi-over-complicated-sanskrit-language/119387/ > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing > committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or > unsubscribe) > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From yogacara at gmail.com Sat Aug 15 04:34:50 2015 From: yogacara at gmail.com (Dan Lusthaus) Date: Sat, 15 Aug 15 00:34:50 -0400 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Hindi v Sanskrit In-Reply-To: Message-ID: The article is uninformed fluff. If the topic is of interest, skip the article and go straight to the study it purports to cite. It's available at http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0132819 Abstract Do principles of language processing in the brain affect the way grammar evolves over time or is language change just a matter of socio-historical contingency? While the balance of evidence has been ambiguous and controversial, we identify here a neurophysiological constraint on the processing of language that has a systematic effect on the evolution of how noun phrases are marked by case (i.e. by such contrasts as between the English base form she and the object form her). In neurophysiological experiments across diverse languages we found that during processing, participants initially interpret the first base-form noun phrase they hear (e.g. she?) as an agent (which would fit a continuation like ? greeted him), even when the sentence later requires the interpretation of a patient role (as in ? was greeted). We show that this processing principle is also operative in Hindi, a language where initial base-form noun phrases most commonly denote patients because many agents receive a special case marker ("ergative") and are often left out in discourse. This finding suggests that the principle is species-wide and independent of the structural affordances of specific languages. As such, the principle favors the development and maintenance of case-marking systems that equate base-form cases with agents rather than with patients. We confirm this evolutionary bias by statistical analyses of phylogenetic signals in over 600 languages worldwide, controlling for confounding effects from language contact. Our findings suggest that at least one core property of grammar systematically adapts in its evolution to the neurophysiological conditions of the brain, independently of socio-historical factors. This opens up new avenues for understanding how specific properties of grammar have developed in tight interaction with the biological evolution of our species. Dan Lusthaus ----- Original Message ----- The article begins 'Though derived from the same script, we tend to opt for much easier Hindi language than Sanskrit'. Hindi and Sanskrit are languages not scripts. One may give a thought to whether the article should be seriously taken. Best DB . http://www.financialexpress.com/article/lifestyle/science/why-we-prefer-easier-hindi-over-complicated-sanskrit-language/119387/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dnreigle at gmail.com Sat Aug 15 05:03:10 2015 From: dnreigle at gmail.com (David and Nancy Reigle) Date: Fri, 14 Aug 15 23:03:10 -0600 Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_[INDOLOGY]=09Two_additional_recensions_of_the_=E1=B9=9Agveda_available?= In-Reply-To: Message-ID: A number of the khila verses are also included within the ???kh?yana recension. The recent edition by Amal Dhari Singh Gautam gives pada-p??ha for them. The question now is whether the pada-p??ha he gives for them is found in the ???kh?yana pada-p??ha manuscripts, or added by the editor from other sources. This edition has no critical apparatus. The Sanskrit bh?mik?, consisting of pp. v-xxii, says (p. xvi) that for the ??val?yana recension there are 20 sa?hit?-p??ha manuscripts and 18 pada-p??ha manuscripts, and for the ???kh?yana recension there are 8 sa?hit?-p??ha manuscripts and 17 pada-p??ha manuscripts. It then succinctly describes each of the 25 ???kh?yana manuscripts (pp. xvi--xxi). The English Introduction, consisting of pp. xxiii-xxxvii, gives a brief recap in its first four pages, only mentioning (p. xxiv) that there are in total 38 ??val?yana manuscripts and 25 ???kh?yana manuscripts. The rest of it is devoted to acknowledgements. I did not see anything about whether the khila verses are found in the ???kh?yana pada-p??ha manuscripts. The editor mentions (p. xxviii) that he has published more than 10 papers on these Vedic ??kh?s since 1969. Possibly he discusses this in one or more of these papers. There is no bibliographic listing of them. B. B. Chaubey in his edition of the ??val?yana recension has in English a Preface, pp. ix-xvii, an extensive Introduction, pp. 1-102, and "Textual variants in the ??vS with regard to additional mantras recorded from MSS, Khilas and other texts," pp. 103-146. So he gives variants for the additional mantras, but not for rest of the ??val?yana text, which includes verse 10.121.10 that my question was about. I assume that Satavalekar's well-known statement in his Sanskrit prast?va to his edition of the ?gveda, that there is only one variant reading in the ?gveda (eka eva p??habheda?), is enough to make people think that no critical apparatus for the ?gveda is needed. As for the khilas, Chaubey describes (pp. 32-34) the various editions, including the 1906 Scheftelowitz edition in more detail than the others. He does not mention Scheftelowitz's 1907 WZKM article that Walter referred us to, which was new to me. Best regards, David Reigle Colorado, U.S.A. On Wed, Aug 12, 2015 at 2:53 AM, Dipak Bhattacharya wrote: > 12.08.15 > > the ?gveda, are almost all found incorporated in the hymns of the > ??val?yana recension. They are apocrypha only for the ??kala recension. > They are genuine ?gveda mantras, as shown by their presence within the > ??val?yana-Sa?hit?.> > > recension are not given in ??val?yana pada-p??ha manuscripts. He > therefore, after learning its different method of showing the avagraha, > supplied them himself> > > Chaubey to his edition of the ??val?yana recension? And perhaps then copied > by Amal Dhari Singh Gautam for his edition of the ???kh?yana recension? Or > is it in fact found in manuscripts of the pada-p??ha of the ??val?yana > and/or the ???kh?yana recension? > > > The first two paragraphs cited from the mail, I think, leaves the > importance of the ??val?yana Sa?hit? as to the recensional history of > the RV to question. The khilas did not originally belong to the RV as > represented by the Vulgate ie ??kala-Sa?hit?. Unless we find any reason > (violence, obnoxious practice) for their exclusion from an older version at > a later date, the hymns have to be regarded as originally alien to the RV. > Even the ?aunak?ya Sa?hit? relegates them to its 20th k???a, regarded as > apocryphal by many. And the Paippal?da-Sa?hit? does not incorporate them > with it. > > The ??val?yana-Sa?hit??s liberal inclusion shows its emergence in later > slack times. > > Added problems with the new recension could have been any liberty taken by > the editor. There would not be any problem in such case if the exact > readings and their difference, if any, from the manuscripts are furnished > by the editor. Did late Professor Chaubey, a longtime friend and colleague > of mine, give the MS readings for 10.121.10? Any decision has to be taken > on that basis. > > What we all are prone to do is leaving the answers to such questions > equivocal. And exactly this point was raised by me sometime as a practice > that must be avoided. I think it is imperative that someone took up the > edition for study. I paid only a cursory glance which did not lead to > any noticeable defect. I hope none will be discovered. Still, a study is > called for. > > Best > Dipak Bhattacharya? > > > > On Tue, Aug 11, 2015 at 11:05 PM, David and Nancy Reigle < > dnreigle at gmail.com> wrote: > >> The first thing that was noticed by the editor of the the ??val?yana-Sa >> ?hit?, B. B. Chaubey, is that the khilas, long known and often published >> as an appendix to editions of the ?gveda, are almost all found >> incorporated in the hymns of the ??val?yana recension. They are >> apocrypha only for the ??kala recension. They are genuine ?gveda >> mantras, as shown by their presence within the ??val?yana-Sa?hit?. >> >> Both of the newly published recensions include their own pada-p??ha. In >> his extensive introduction, Chaubey stated that the 212 additional mantras >> not found in ??kala recension are not given in ??val?yana pada-p??ha >> manuscripts. He therefore, after learning its different method of showing >> the avagraha, supplied them himself (p. 57). >> >> Here is my question, that perhaps someone in India with access either to >> the manuscripts or to the editors can answer. In hymn 10.121 addressed to >> hira?ya-garbha, the last verse, verse 10, brings in Praj?pati. Vedic >> scholars such as Jan Gonda have questioned the authenticity of this verse >> because its words are not separated in the pada-p??ha (WZKS 27, 1983, p. >> 31). In both of the newly published recensions, this verse has a full >> pada-p??ha. So, was the pada-p??ha for this verse prepared and added by >> Chaubey to his edition of the ??val?yana recension? And perhaps then >> copied by Amal Dhari Singh Gautam for his edition of the ???kh?yana >> recension? Or is it in fact found in manuscripts of the pada-p??ha of >> the ??val?yana and/or the ???kh?yana recension? >> >> Best regards, >> >> David Reigle >> Colorado, U.S.A. >> >> >> On Mon, Aug 10, 2015 at 3:07 PM, David and Nancy Reigle < >> dnreigle at gmail.com> wrote: >> >>> As most of you know, two recensions of the ?gveda in addition to the >>> long standard ??kala/??kalya recension have become available in the >>> last several years. They are: >>> >>> ??val?yana-Sa?hit? of the ?gveda, ed. B. B. Chaubey, 2 vols., New >>> Delhi: Indira Gandhi National Centre for the Arts, 2009. >>> >>> The ?gveda Sa?hit? of ???kh?yana-??kh?, ed. Amal Dhari Singh Gautam, 4 >>> vols., Ujjain: Maharshi Sandipani Rashtriya Veda Vidya Pratishthan, >>> 2012-2013. >>> >>> I would be very interested in comments from the Vedic scholars here >>> about the significance of having two additional recensions of the ?gveda. >>> In particular, I was earlier informed that an 1897 book in Danish by Hans >>> Vodskov, Rig-veda og Edda, has a chapter attempting to demonstrate that the >>> ?gveda we have shows a very late style. My informant noted that Vodskov's >>> views about the late style of the ??kala recension have not been >>> adopted by Vedic scholars. Now that we have two additional recensions, >>> almost identical to the ??kala recension, I assume that this would be >>> significant evidence for an early, unchanged style. >>> >>> As for linguistic peculiarities, as opposed to stylistic ones, Madhav >>> Deshpande had noted in his 1993 book, Sanskrit & Prakrit: Sociolinguistic >>> Issues, p. 134: "In most recent discussions, a historical fact of utmost >>> importance is often overlooked, namely that the text of the ?gveda that >>> we have today is not necessarily the original ?gveda. What we have is >>> only one recension (sa?hit?) of the ?gveda compiled several centuries >>> after the hymns were composed by the ?gvedic sages." >>> >>> Now we have three recensions, together presumably bringing us closer to >>> the original ?gveda. >>> >>> Best regards, >>> >>> David Reigle >>> Colorado, U.S.A. >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> INDOLOGY mailing list >> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info >> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing >> committee) >> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or >> unsubscribe) >> > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From shrinsaha at gmail.com Sat Aug 15 10:51:03 2015 From: shrinsaha at gmail.com (Niranjan Saha) Date: Sat, 15 Aug 15 16:21:03 +0530 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Request for Eric Hayot's The Elements of Academic Style: Writing for the Humanities Message-ID: Dear list-folk, I would be grtaeful if any of you have a scaned copy /pdf of Eric Hayot's *The Elements of Academic Style: Writing for the Humanities * (2014) and could share with me for my personal use. With sincere regards, Niranjan Saha -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From kauzeya at gmail.com Sat Aug 15 11:26:34 2015 From: kauzeya at gmail.com (Jonathan Silk) Date: Sat, 15 Aug 15 13:26:34 +0200 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Request for Eric Hayot's The Elements of Academic Style: Writing for the Humanities In-Reply-To: Message-ID: A matter of principle? there is, to my mind, a rather great difference between asking for a PDF of an obscure, out of print or difficult to obtain scholarly work (even book), for which, among other things, the author/editor never expected to make a penny,and asking for a scan of a *current*, in print, and not even very expensive (Amazon has new copies for less than $12.00) general book. My wife likes to remind me that I am not the policeman of the world, and I am mindful of this (or try to be), and I'm aware that this is, in many respects, "none of my business," and moreover I speak as someone with a 2 TB drive almost completely full of scans of books, articles, manuscripts etc etc., but whenever possible alongside not instead of publications. I am also aware that having a good job my financial situation is not that of everyone, and that's also why I mentioned above the price (fin possible contrast, I suspect--although I have not seen any such thing--that it won't be too long before PDFs of the Oxford Rgveda start to circulate, since the book sells for a price to make even a well paid academic take a deep breath--at the same time, that's the whole RV, and if it were to have been published in parts the sum of those parts would no doubt be greater than the price asked now, so I'm not complaining about the price, only commenting on what I suspect will likely happen... ). sorry for rambling... On Sat, Aug 15, 2015 at 12:51 PM, Niranjan Saha wrote: > Dear list-folk, > > I would be grtaeful if any of you have a scaned copy /pdf of Eric Hayot's *The > Elements of Academic Style: Writing for the Humanities * (2014) and could > share with me for my personal use. > > > With sincere regards, > > Niranjan Saha > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing > committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or > unsubscribe) > -- J. Silk Leiden University Leiden University Institute for Area Studies, LIAS Matthias de Vrieshof 3, Room 0.05b 2311 BZ Leiden The Netherlands copies of my publications may be found at http://www.buddhismandsocialjustice.com/silk_publications.html -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mkapstei at uchicago.edu Sat Aug 15 12:31:42 2015 From: mkapstei at uchicago.edu (Matthew Kapstein) Date: Sat, 15 Aug 15 12:31:42 +0000 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Request for Eric Hayot's The Elements of Academic Style: Writing for the Humanities In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <82C3E42590D939418C74DD76B97DDED047AEE34E@xm-mbx-04-prod.ad.uchicago.edu> I believe this should be seen as a matter of principle not price. In all events, the moderators should make clear that Indology is not a pdf exchange serving subject-matter outside of indology. Matthew Kapstein Directeur d'?tudes, Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes Numata Visiting Professor of Buddhist Studies, The University of Chicago ________________________________________ From ssandahl at sympatico.ca Sat Aug 15 16:23:15 2015 From: ssandahl at sympatico.ca (Stella Sandahl) Date: Sat, 15 Aug 15 12:23:15 -0400 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Hindi v Sanskrit In-Reply-To: <8CFC5994-DBEF-443E-9263-96F7947A70D0@berkeley.edu> Message-ID: Deepak Bhattacharya is right - the author of this article is certainly not a linguist! However, the long Sanskrit compounds actually correspond to the word order in Apabhramsha and NIA languages. The best example are the long compounds in the songs of the Gitagovinda - it would not be difficult to render these into a modern language adding necessary postposition/(and/ or/)endings. This explains the popularity of the Gitagovinda. Even somebody not versed in Sanskrit could actually follow the meaning in the songs. Add to these that the songs only have present indicative, usually 3rd person sing., or imperative. The past is expressed by the past participle in the songs. Very much like an Apabhramsha/NIA language. See my Le Giitagovinda. Tradition et innovation dans le kaavya, (Stockholm 1977) unfortunately written in French and hence not very much read. The Sanskrit compound is not at all as complicated as students (and even teachers) like to think. Best Stellla Sandahl On Aug 14, 2015, at 11:09 PM, George Hart wrote: > (Sorry?I should correct this ? I meant Hindi and English, not Hindi and Sanskrit). > > Sanskrit compounds, even when they are several lines long, tend to reproduce very closely Dravidian syntactical order and usage. I remember reading a historical novel in Malayalam that had Sanskrit compounds of 10 or 15 words. Malayalis would have little trouble with these, as their own language works the same way ? all they need is to know the vocabulary, which they do. Of course, Sanskrit compounds can seem difficult if one?s native language does not mimic their syntax. Both Hindi and English are right-branching, whereas Dravidian is left-branching. Naturally, people who speak those languages find Sanskrit compounds, which are left-branching like Dravidian languages, somewhat difficult. George Hart > >> On Aug 14, 2015, at 4:41 PM, patrick mccartney wrote: >> >> An interesting article about an interesting study in Sanskrit compounds and why we prefer not to use them. >> >> http://www.financialexpress.com/article/lifestyle/science/why-we-prefer-easier-hindi-over-complicated-sanskrit-language/119387/ >> >> _______________________________________________ >> INDOLOGY mailing list >> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info >> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) >> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From vajpeyi at csds.in Sat Aug 15 18:23:24 2015 From: vajpeyi at csds.in (Ananya Vajpeyi) Date: Sat, 15 Aug 15 23:53:24 +0530 Subject: [INDOLOGY] On "Spirituality" and the new gods and goddesses of Modi's India Message-ID: Here's an incisive and interesting interview with Ashis Nandy, clinical psychologist, social analyst and cultural critic par excellence, b?te-noire of puritans and purists across disciplines, on why god-men (and women), and so-called spiritual leaders are becoming more and more garish and cartoon-like in India of late: http://bit.ly/1ffB431 All best, AV. -- *Ananya Vajpeyi, PhD * *Associate Fellow* *Centre for the Study of Developing Societies* *29 Rajpur Road, Civil Lines* *New Delhi 110054* *e: vajpeyi at csds.in * *ext: 229* *http://www.csds.in/faculty_ananya_vajpeyi.htm * *http://www.hup.harvard.edu/catalog.php?isbn=9780674048?959&content=book * *http://www.carnegiecouncil.org/programs/gen/gefellows/current/ananya_vajpeyi.html * -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dipak.d2004 at gmail.com Sun Aug 16 06:25:23 2015 From: dipak.d2004 at gmail.com (Dipak Bhattacharya) Date: Sun, 16 Aug 15 11:55:23 +0530 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Hindi v Sanskrit In-Reply-To: Message-ID: 16.8.15 Dear List, This is a valid comment. But, as Professor Stendahl has special attention on the G?tagovinda one understands the validity of her comments as admittedly of non-general nature. Mine is not an adverse comment but just a pointer to the unwritten part of the comment. The author is certainly aware of the emergence of long compounds prior to the emergence of Apabhra??a. The simple nature of the compound, the G?tagovinda heritage and certainly, as observed by the correspondent, under the influence of the literature of the living languages, continued in the modern non-traditional Sanskrit literature. But the illustrations, self-made or cited, given by the late ?la?k?rikas and exemplifying the traditional literature of the day, are not necessarily simple. The natural beauty of K?lid?sa is lost. Though a general statement will not be valid for all, one observes that, on the whole, the lesser verses of Bh?ravi, M?gha, Bha??i etc. exerted more influence. Their compelling influence is sometimes in evidence in NIA too. Best Dipak Bhattacharya On Sat, Aug 15, 2015 at 9:53 PM, Stella Sandahl wrote: > Deepak Bhattacharya is right - the author of this article is certainly not > a linguist! > However, the long Sanskrit compounds actually correspond to the word order > in Apabhramsha and NIA languages. > The best example are the long compounds in the *songs* of the Gitagovinda > - it would not be difficult to render these > into a modern language adding necessary postposition/(and/ or/)endings. > This explains the popularity of the Gitagovinda. > Even somebody not versed in Sanskrit could actually follow the meaning in > the songs. Add to these that the songs only > have present indicative, usually 3rd person sing., or imperative. The past > is expressed by the past participle in the songs. > Very much like an Apabhramsha/NIA language. See my* Le Giitagovinda. > Tradition et innovation dans le kaavya,* (Stockholm 1977) > unfortunately written in French and hence not very much read. > The Sanskrit compound is not at all as complicated as students (and even > teachers) like to think. > Best > Stellla Sandahl > > > On Aug 14, 2015, at 11:09 PM, George Hart wrote: > > (Sorry?I should correct this ? I meant Hindi and English, not Hindi and > Sanskrit). > > Sanskrit compounds, even when they are several lines long, tend to > reproduce very closely Dravidian syntactical order and usage. I remember > reading a historical novel in Malayalam that had Sanskrit compounds of 10 > or 15 words. Malayalis would have little trouble with these, as their own > language works the same way ? all they need is to know the vocabulary, > which they do. Of course, Sanskrit compounds can seem difficult if one?s > native language does not mimic their syntax. Both Hindi and English are > right-branching, whereas Dravidian is left-branching. Naturally, people who > speak those languages find Sanskrit compounds, which are left-branching > like Dravidian languages, somewhat difficult. George Hart > > On Aug 14, 2015, at 4:41 PM, patrick mccartney > wrote: > > An interesting article about an interesting study in Sanskrit compounds > and why we prefer not to use them. > > > http://www.financialexpress.com/article/lifestyle/science/why-we-prefer-easier-hindi-over-complicated-sanskrit-language/119387/ > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing > committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or > unsubscribe) > > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing > committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or > unsubscribe) > > > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing > committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or > unsubscribe) > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From hr at ivs.edu Sun Aug 16 07:06:52 2015 From: hr at ivs.edu (Howard Resnick) Date: Sun, 16 Aug 15 09:06:52 +0200 Subject: [INDOLOGY] "Liberal Arts Education Expands Presence in India" Message-ID: <6BE34AA6-4806-4DD7-8E69-D22B47ACA3C8@ivs.edu> This trend might bode well for Indology. http://www.business-standard.com/article/management/liberal-arts-education-expands-presence-in-india-114060401606_1.html -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From hr at ivs.edu Sun Aug 16 19:29:24 2015 From: hr at ivs.edu (Howard Resnick) Date: Sun, 16 Aug 15 21:29:24 +0200 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Poor New Nalanda Message-ID: <7EB56DD6-2F3E-4BAB-B995-1468330BC056@ivs.edu> http://www.business-standard.com/article/economy-policy/nalanda-university-the-view-from-close-up-115030300038_1.html -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From wujastyk at gmail.com Sun Aug 16 20:56:54 2015 From: wujastyk at gmail.com (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Sun, 16 Aug 15 14:56:54 -0600 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Request for Eric Hayot's The Elements of Academic Style: Writing for the Humanities In-Reply-To: Message-ID: INDOLOGY is not a pdf exchange serving subject-matter outside of indology. INDOLOGY members are advised to respect the laws of the Berne and other international copyright conventions, to which India is also a signatory . Dominik Wujastyk INDOLOGY committee member on duty. ? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From james.hartzell at gmail.com Mon Aug 17 08:26:02 2015 From: james.hartzell at gmail.com (James Hartzell) Date: Mon, 17 Aug 15 10:26:02 +0200 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Poor New Nalanda In-Reply-To: <7EB56DD6-2F3E-4BAB-B995-1468330BC056@ivs.edu> Message-ID: Thanks for the insightful piece. On Sun, Aug 16, 2015 at 9:29 PM, Howard Resnick
wrote: > > http://www.business-standard.com/article/economy-policy/nalanda-university-the-view-from-close-up-115030300038_1.html > > > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing > committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or > unsubscribe) > -- James Hartzell, PhD Center for Mind/Brain Sciences (CIMeC) The University of Trento, Italy -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dnreigle at gmail.com Mon Aug 17 20:08:31 2015 From: dnreigle at gmail.com (David and Nancy Reigle) Date: Mon, 17 Aug 15 14:08:31 -0600 Subject: [INDOLOGY] New Book: The ?tman-Brahman in Ancient Buddhism In-Reply-To: Message-ID: A corrected reprint of this book with a new introduction has now been issued. A number of typographical errors were corrected, mostly in the extensive notes. Anyone who purchased the first release may contact me off-list for a replacement. As a result of feedback after the first release, I felt it necessary to add a new introduction. This was written by myself. It has been posted separately at Academia.edu: https://www.academia.edu/14990642/New_Introduction_to_Atman-Brahman_in_Ancient_Buddhism . Best regards, David Reigle Colorado, U.S.A. From: David and Nancy Reigle > Date: Tuesday, 12 May 2015 10:25 AM > To: "indology at list.indology.info" > Subject: [INDOLOGY] New Book: The ?tman-Brahman in Ancient Buddhism > > Kamaleswar Bhattacharya?s 1973 French book, *L??tman-Brahman dans le > Bouddhisme ancien*, has just been published in English translation as *The > ?tman-Brahman in Ancient Buddhism*. It is available from Amazon.com at: > http://www.amazon.com/Atman-Brahman-Ancient-Buddhism-Kamaleswar-Bhattacharya/dp/0881810061. > I do not know if the publication of this book was his last wish, because he > died unexpectedly on March 16, 2014, but I have regarded it as such, as far > as my duty in getting it published is concerned. Here follows some brief > information about how this came about. > > > I first contacted him about an English translation of this book in 2001. > At that time he already had a typescript English translation of it, made by > someone other than himself, whose name we never learned. From this > typescript, faint and nearly illegible in parts, with many handwritten > corrections and changes added, my wife Nancy input an electronic copy. A > printout of this was mailed to Prof. Bhattacharya for his corrections and > revisions. Over the course of several years, due to his many other > commitments, revised printouts went back and forth between France and the > U.S.A. several times. In the end, he had the book as he wanted it. We were > awaiting the four indexes when we learned of his passing. > > > As for the content of this book, its thesis is, as stated in his Preface: > ?the Buddha does not deny the Upani?adic *?tman*; on the contrary, he > indirectly affirms it, *in denying that which is falsely believed to be > the**?tman*.? > > > He continues: ?The one request I would make of such eminent scholars as > have devoted their lives to the study of Buddhism is that they adopt a > genuinely Buddhist attitude and read this book before saying, ?That is > impossible.?? > > > David Reigle > > Colorado, U.S.A. > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rpjain1903 at gmail.com Mon Aug 17 20:50:28 2015 From: rpjain1903 at gmail.com (Rajeev P. Jain) Date: Tue, 18 Aug 15 02:20:28 +0530 Subject: [INDOLOGY] mailing list Message-ID: <9E89DC48-86CE-4BF4-B0ED-56D4D1896E7D@gmail.com> Dear Sir How can I get the mailing list of Indologists with their details so that I can correspond with them for various issues related to the subject. Rajeev Jain 10 A Rajniwas Marg Civil Lines 'ANANDA'-villa # 7 Delhi-110054 (INDIA) (011)23983983 From wujastyk at gmail.com Tue Aug 18 03:17:15 2015 From: wujastyk at gmail.com (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Mon, 17 Aug 15 21:17:15 -0600 Subject: [INDOLOGY] mailing list In-Reply-To: <9E89DC48-86CE-4BF4-B0ED-56D4D1896E7D@gmail.com> Message-ID: I'm afraid the list of members of the INDOLOGY forum is not public. Please read the Netiquette guidelines about one-to-one communications vs. one-to-many communications. There are different expectations for the discussion list. Most members do not wish to be contacted off-list, unless they explicitly ask for the conversation to continue privately. (As, for example, "This discussion must be becoming boring for the members at large; please continue the discussion with me personally if you wish to.") I hope this helps, Dominik Wujastyk On 17 August 2015 at 14:50, Rajeev P. Jain wrote: > Dear Sir > > How can I get the mailing list of Indologists with their details so that I > can correspond with them for various issues related to the subject. > > Rajeev Jain > 10 A Rajniwas Marg > Civil Lines > 'ANANDA'-villa # 7 > Delhi-110054 (INDIA) > (011)23983983 > > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing > committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or > unsubscribe) > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From zydenbos at uni-muenchen.de Tue Aug 18 12:58:36 2015 From: zydenbos at uni-muenchen.de (Robert Zydenbos) Date: Tue, 18 Aug 15 14:58:36 +0200 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Hindi v Sanskrit In-Reply-To: <7598E1E1-99C0-49E3-B0E4-F955783BE254@berkeley.edu> Message-ID: <55D32BFC.6000203@uni-muenchen.de> George Hart wrote: > Of course, Sanskrit compounds can seem > difficult if one?s native language does not mimic their syntax. Both > Hindi and Sanskrit are right-branching, whereas Dravidian is > left-branching. Please allow me a bit of nit-picking. If by 'left-branching' we mean that, e.g., attributes precede the substantives to which they refer, then both Sanskrit and Hindi (and all the rest of the so-called Indogermanic / Indo-European languages of India, i.e., 'Indo-Aryan') are quite left-branching indeed. The so-called 'genitive' in Hindi (which is actually a kind of adjective, inflected k?-ke-k? according to the gender and case of the following substantive) already illustrates this. Of course it is possible for genitives in Sanskrit or (very rarely) Hindi to follow the substantives to which they refer, esp. for metrical reasons in verse. But it seems that also in Sanskrit prose, genitives, as attributive words, as a rule precede that to which they refer ? which is precisely not the tendency in a language such as Latin, which has a more clearly right-branching tendency. I think that this syntactic feature is one more bit of evidence that the Indo-Aryan languages were heavily Dravidianized already from their earliest historical beginnings, as F.B.J. Kuijper and others have pointed out. > Naturally, people who speak those languages find > Sanskrit compounds, which are left-branching like Dravidian languages, > somewhat difficult. Indeed the internal structure of sam?sas is left-branching, which may explain why an author like R?m?nuj?c?rya in Tami?n??u sometimes uses very long compounds such as are uncommon among philosophical authors. Stella Sandahl wrote: > The Sanskrit compound is not at all as complicated as students (and even teachers) like to think. Indeed. Though there may be statistically determinable average limits of quick comprehension among ordinary readers, I am sure that it is largely a matter of what one is accustomed to. RZ From ajit.gargeshwari at gmail.com Tue Aug 18 16:27:23 2015 From: ajit.gargeshwari at gmail.com (Ajit Gargeshwari) Date: Tue, 18 Aug 15 21:57:23 +0530 Subject: [INDOLOGY] mailing list Message-ID: By saying " mailing list of Indologists" I assume you mean Email Ids of members. How I wish such a Data Base was available in public domain without violating privacy. I don't think there exists a mailing list where the list owners or moderators do share such Information even if they have ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: "Rajeev P. Jain" To: "indology at list.indology.info" Cc: Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2015 02:20:28 +0530 Subject: [INDOLOGY] mailing list Dear Sir How can I get the mailing list of Indologists with their details so that I can correspond with them for various issues related to the subject. Rajeev Jain 10 A Rajniwas Marg Civil Lines 'ANANDA'-villa # 7 Delhi-110054 (INDIA) (011)23983983 Regards Ajit Gargeshwari ? ????? ??????? ?? ??????????? ?????? ????? ?? ? ????? ??? ?????? ?????????? ?????? ? ?????? ???????? ???????2.20?? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From hhhock at illinois.edu Tue Aug 18 16:37:02 2015 From: hhhock at illinois.edu (Hock, Hans Henrich) Date: Tue, 18 Aug 15 16:37:02 +0000 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Hindi v Sanskrit In-Reply-To: <55D32BFC.6000203@uni-muenchen.de> Message-ID: Let me add a few more cents? worth. The idea that Indo-Aryan, including Sanskrit, fundamentally differs from Dravidian in its syntactic typology, though sanctioned by a certain ?tradition? in South Asian linguistics, is problematic on several counts. First, the only area in which (most of) Modern Indo-Aryan can be said to be robustly right-branching is that of Complement structures (marked by ki/ke/jo/je) ? a relatively recent phenomenon, reflecting Persian influence. (Some of the languages also are beginning to adopt postnominal, center-embedded relative clauses, most likely based on the English model.) Earlier Indo-Aryan is essentially left-branching, but with a fair amount of word-order (and not just phrase-order) freedom, depending on genre. This freedom is often contrasted with the supposedly very rigid structure of Modern Dravidian. However, Susan Herring has furnished excellent evidence from Old Tamil attesting to a fair amount of phrase-order freedom, includiing structures that are verb-initial, with all other elements extraposed to the right. I have observed similar freedom (through interviews) in a colloquial variety of Modern Kannada, and I suspect that the rigidity attributed to the modern (literary) languages is an effect of diglossia, similar to the relatively more rigid sentence structure of modern literary German, as contrasted with colloquial or dialectal varieties. Another feature shared by traditional Indo-Aryan, including Sanskrit, and Dravidian is the fact that relativization can be encoded both in nonfinite form, through (relative) participles, and in finite form, through relative-correlative structures. The latter had for a long time been considered to be Indo-Aryan borrowings in Dravidian (and some linguists considered the Indo-Aryan counterparts to somehow reflect an innovation, triggered by contact with Dravidian); but starting with research by Ramasamy, Lakshmi Bai, and Steever, it has become clear that the structures are indigenous to Dravidian, and I have presented arguments and evidence that the Sanskrit/Indo-Aryan structures are inherited from Proto-Indo-European. There is, however, one important behavioral difference: Dravidian relative clauses can only precede their correlative counterparts; in Sanskrit/Indo-Aryan (and PIE) they can either precede or follow (and in some cases both precede and follow, one on each side). Whether this should be considered evidence for ?right branching? or ?mixed right- and left-branching? might be subject to debate (fueled, in many cases, by theory-internal or even ideological considerations). What is important to know, however, is that relative-correlatives are a common phenomenon in languages that would otherwise be considered ?rigid? SOV/verb-final or left-branching. One more thing that is worth bearing in mind. Recent publications by Pilot-Raichoor (with Murugaiyan) suggest that prehistoric (i.e. pre-Old Tamil) Dravidian may have been very different in its morphology and, by implication, in its morphosyntax, with traces still observable in Old Tamil and elsewhere. At this point, these publications do not seem to have been subjected to the (obligatory) vetting process; from personal experience I know that many Dravidologists are skeptical. Nevertheless, this work suggests that we need to be cautious concerning claims about the syntactic similarities and differences between Indo-Aryan and Dravidian at, say, 1500 BC. All the best, Hans Henrich Hock On 18 Aug 2015, at 07:58, Robert Zydenbos > wrote: George Hart wrote: Of course, Sanskrit compounds can seem difficult if one?s native language does not mimic their syntax. Both Hindi and Sanskrit are right-branching, whereas Dravidian is left-branching. Please allow me a bit of nit-picking. If by 'left-branching' we mean that, e.g., attributes precede the substantives to which they refer, then both Sanskrit and Hindi (and all the rest of the so-called Indogermanic / Indo-European languages of India, i.e., 'Indo-Aryan') are quite left-branching indeed. The so-called 'genitive' in Hindi (which is actually a kind of adjective, inflected k?-ke-k? according to the gender and case of the following substantive) already illustrates this. Of course it is possible for genitives in Sanskrit or (very rarely) Hindi to follow the substantives to which they refer, esp. for metrical reasons in verse. But it seems that also in Sanskrit prose, genitives, as attributive words, as a rule precede that to which they refer ? which is precisely not the tendency in a language such as Latin, which has a more clearly right-branching tendency. I think that this syntactic feature is one more bit of evidence that the Indo-Aryan languages were heavily Dravidianized already from their earliest historical beginnings, as F.B.J. Kuijper and others have pointed out. Naturally, people who speak those languages find Sanskrit compounds, which are left-branching like Dravidian languages, somewhat difficult. Indeed the internal structure of sam?sas is left-branching, which may explain why an author like R?m?nuj?c?rya in Tami?n??u sometimes uses very long compounds such as are uncommon among philosophical authors. Stella Sandahl wrote: The Sanskrit compound is not at all as complicated as students (and even teachers) like to think. Indeed. Though there may be statistically determinable average limits of quick comprehension among ordinary readers, I am sure that it is largely a matter of what one is accustomed to. RZ _______________________________________________ INDOLOGY mailing list INDOLOGY at list.indology.info indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jknutson at hawaii.edu Tue Aug 18 22:37:29 2015 From: jknutson at hawaii.edu (Jesse Knutson) Date: Tue, 18 Aug 15 12:37:29 -1000 Subject: =?utf-8?Q?[INDOLOGY]_Uttarar=C4=81macarita_ed._Kale?= Message-ID: Dear Friends, Does anyone have a pdf of M.R. Kale's ed. of the Uttarar?macarita? Best, ??????,J -- Jesse Ross Knutson PhD Assistant Professor of Sanskrit and Bengali, Department of Indo-Pacific Languages and Literatures University of Hawai'i at M?noa 452A Spalding -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From glhart at berkeley.edu Wed Aug 19 00:20:20 2015 From: glhart at berkeley.edu (George Hart) Date: Tue, 18 Aug 15 17:20:20 -0700 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Hindi v Sanskrit In-Reply-To: Message-ID: This is fascinating ? thanks. I have gone over a good part of Sangam literature carefully and cannot remember ever finding a relative clause, though of course this doesn?t mean they didn?t exist. Certainly they are fairly common in modern Tamil. It would be interesting to know when they first appear in the literature and whether they are documented in other premodern Dravidian literatures. Regarding word order, it is true, as Susan Herring shows, that old Tamil often does not put the finite verb at the end. But it should be noted that in the case of converbials (adverbial participials) and adjectival participles, the verb form always comes at the end of its phrase ? nothing after it can be construed with it unless it is the noun construed with the participial adjective, in which case the noun must directly follow it or (occasionally) be very near it. In this way, the word order of old Tamil is thoroughly constrained, as far as I can see. Sanskrit, obviously, is completely different, allowing related words to be far apart. I am looking forward to finding out about the theories of Pilot-Ramichoor and Murugaiyan about pre-old-Tamil morphology ? hope they are published. I am glad my mistake (saying Hindi was right-branching) led to a very intriguing discussion. George Hart > On Aug 18, 2015, at 9:37 AM, Hock, Hans Henrich wrote: > > Let me add a few more cents? worth. > > The idea that Indo-Aryan, including Sanskrit, fundamentally differs from Dravidian in its syntactic typology, though sanctioned by a certain ?tradition? in South Asian linguistics, is problematic on several counts. > > First, the only area in which (most of) Modern Indo-Aryan can be said to be robustly right-branching is that of Complement structures (marked by ki/ke/jo/je) ? a relatively recent phenomenon, reflecting Persian influence. (Some of the languages also are beginning to adopt postnominal, center-embedded relative clauses, most likely based on the English model.) > > Earlier Indo-Aryan is essentially left-branching, but with a fair amount of word-order (and not just phrase-order) freedom, depending on genre. This freedom is often contrasted with the supposedly very rigid structure of Modern Dravidian. However, Susan Herring has furnished excellent evidence from Old Tamil attesting to a fair amount of phrase-order freedom, includiing structures that are verb-initial, with all other elements extraposed to the right. I have observed similar freedom (through interviews) in a colloquial variety of Modern Kannada, and I suspect that the rigidity attributed to the modern (literary) languages is an effect of diglossia, similar to the relatively more rigid sentence structure of modern literary German, as contrasted with colloquial or dialectal varieties. > > Another feature shared by traditional Indo-Aryan, including Sanskrit, and Dravidian is the fact that relativization can be encoded both in nonfinite form, through (relative) participles, and in finite form, through relative-correlative structures. The latter had for a long time been considered to be Indo-Aryan borrowings in Dravidian (and some linguists considered the Indo-Aryan counterparts to somehow reflect an innovation, triggered by contact with Dravidian); but starting with research by Ramasamy, Lakshmi Bai, and Steever, it has become clear that the structures are indigenous to Dravidian, and I have presented arguments and evidence that the Sanskrit/Indo-Aryan structures are inherited from Proto-Indo-European. > > There is, however, one important behavioral difference: Dravidian relative clauses can only precede their correlative counterparts; in Sanskrit/Indo-Aryan (and PIE) they can either precede or follow (and in some cases both precede and follow, one on each side). Whether this should be considered evidence for ?right branching? or ?mixed right- and left-branching? might be subject to debate (fueled, in many cases, by theory-internal or even ideological considerations). What is important to know, however, is that relative-correlatives are a common phenomenon in languages that would otherwise be considered ?rigid? SOV/verb-final or left-branching. > > One more thing that is worth bearing in mind. Recent publications by Pilot-Raichoor (with Murugaiyan) suggest that prehistoric (i.e. pre-Old Tamil) Dravidian may have been very different in its morphology and, by implication, in its morphosyntax, with traces still observable in Old Tamil and elsewhere. At this point, these publications do not seem to have been subjected to the (obligatory) vetting process; from personal experience I know that many Dravidologists are skeptical. Nevertheless, this work suggests that we need to be cautious concerning claims about the syntactic similarities and differences between Indo-Aryan and Dravidian at, say, 1500 BC. > > All the best, > > Hans Henrich Hock > > > > On 18 Aug 2015, at 07:58, Robert Zydenbos > wrote: > >> George Hart wrote: >> >>> Of course, Sanskrit compounds can seem >>> difficult if one?s native language does not mimic their syntax. Both >>> Hindi and Sanskrit are right-branching, whereas Dravidian is >>> left-branching. >> >> Please allow me a bit of nit-picking. If by 'left-branching' we mean >> that, e.g., attributes precede the substantives to which they refer, >> then both Sanskrit and Hindi (and all the rest of the so-called >> Indogermanic / Indo-European languages of India, i.e., 'Indo-Aryan') are >> quite left-branching indeed. The so-called 'genitive' in Hindi (which is >> actually a kind of adjective, inflected k?-ke-k? according to the gender >> and case of the following substantive) already illustrates this. >> >> Of course it is possible for genitives in Sanskrit or (very rarely) >> Hindi to follow the substantives to which they refer, esp. for metrical >> reasons in verse. But it seems that also in Sanskrit prose, genitives, >> as attributive words, as a rule precede that to which they refer ? which >> is precisely not the tendency in a language such as Latin, which has a >> more clearly right-branching tendency. I think that this syntactic >> feature is one more bit of evidence that the Indo-Aryan languages were >> heavily Dravidianized already from their earliest historical beginnings, >> as F.B.J. Kuijper and others have pointed out. >> >>> Naturally, people who speak those languages find >>> Sanskrit compounds, which are left-branching like Dravidian languages, >>> somewhat difficult. >> >> Indeed the internal structure of sam?sas is left-branching, which may >> explain why an author like R?m?nuj?c?rya in Tami?n??u sometimes uses >> very long compounds such as are uncommon among philosophical authors. >> >> Stella Sandahl wrote: >> >>> The Sanskrit compound is not at all as complicated as students (and even teachers) like to think. >> >> Indeed. Though there may be statistically determinable average limits of >> quick comprehension among ordinary readers, I am sure that it is largely >> a matter of what one is accustomed to. >> >> RZ >> >> _______________________________________________ >> INDOLOGY mailing list >> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info >> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) >> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jpo at uts.cc.utexas.edu Wed Aug 19 01:10:17 2015 From: jpo at uts.cc.utexas.edu (Patrick Olivelle) Date: Tue, 18 Aug 15 20:10:17 -0500 Subject: [INDOLOGY] High Court Decision on Santhara Message-ID: <325B9FB2-DDC3-4225-96C6-F962F4518C5E@uts.cc.utexas.edu> After the discussion on these lists of the High Court decision, this enlightened op-ed by Pratap Bhanu Mehta, whom some of you may know, is a welcome addition to the discussion: http://indianexpress.com/article/opinion/columns/death-and-the-sovereign/ Patrick From ambapradeep at gmail.com Wed Aug 19 02:04:28 2015 From: ambapradeep at gmail.com (Amba Kulkarni) Date: Wed, 19 Aug 15 07:34:28 +0530 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Hindi v Sanskrit In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Dear Prof Hans, I would also like to share our experience while building a Kannada-Hindi Anusaaraka system, later followed by Telugu-Hindi, Marathi-Hidi Anusaaraka systems. (Anusaaraka is a machine that follows the source language constructions and produces its image in the target language). We found that there are only 3 differences at the syntactic level between the modern Indo Aryan and Dravidian languages. Without going into linguistic details, let me put in simple form. a) copula : Dravidian languages have copula less constructions such as raamu.du vaidya.du, while Hindi requires an explicit 'hai' as in raama vaidya hai. b) 'ki' construction: The sentences with 'ani' in Telugu of the form X ani Y are best translated into Hindi as 'Y ki X', though Hindi allows a construction X aisaa Y. For example, nenu i.m.tiki ve.ltunnaa.du ani raamu.du cepaa.du -> mai.m ghara jaa rahaa hu.m aisaa raama ne kahaa better translation would be 'raama ne kahaa ki mai.m ghara jaa rahaa hu.m' c) relative participial: While Sanskrit and Hindi mark the information of kaaraka in the k.rdanta, Telugu does not mark the kaaraka information but marks the tense information. So in Telugu it is possible to say raamu.du tinina pa.ndu : The fruit eaten by Raama, raama ne khaayaa huaa phala raamu.du tinina pa.l.le.m : The plate in which Raama ate, raama ne jisa thaalii me.m khaaya vaha thaalii raamu.du tinina cemcaa : The spoon with which Raama ate, raame ne jisa camacca se khaayaa vaha camacca This is where the Dakkini borrowed the 'so' construction and we have raama khaayaa so plate/cammaca/phala etc in Dakkani. Best regards, Amba On 18 August 2015 at 22:07, Hock, Hans Henrich wrote: > Let me add a few more cents? worth. > > The idea that Indo-Aryan, including Sanskrit, fundamentally differs from > Dravidian in its syntactic typology, though sanctioned by a certain > ?tradition? in South Asian linguistics, is problematic on several counts. > > First, the only area in which (most of) Modern Indo-Aryan can be said to > be robustly right-branching is that of Complement structures (marked by > *ki/ke/jo/je*) ? a relatively recent phenomenon, reflecting Persian > influence. (Some of the languages also are beginning to adopt postnominal, > center-embedded relative clauses, most likely based on the English model.) > > Earlier Indo-Aryan is essentially left-branching, but with a fair amount > of word-order (and not just phrase-order) freedom, depending on genre. This > freedom is often contrasted with the supposedly very rigid structure of > Modern Dravidian. However, Susan Herring has furnished excellent evidence > from Old Tamil attesting to a fair amount of phrase-order freedom, > includiing structures that are verb-initial, with all other elements > extraposed to the right. I have observed similar freedom (through > interviews) in a colloquial variety of Modern Kannada, and I suspect that > the rigidity attributed to the modern (literary) languages is an effect of > diglossia, similar to the relatively more rigid sentence structure of > modern literary German, as contrasted with colloquial or dialectal > varieties. > > Another feature shared by traditional Indo-Aryan, including Sanskrit, and > Dravidian is the fact that relativization can be encoded both in nonfinite > form, through (relative) participles, and in finite form, through > relative-correlative structures. The latter had for a long time been > considered to be Indo-Aryan borrowings in Dravidian (and some linguists > considered the Indo-Aryan counterparts to somehow reflect an innovation, > triggered by contact with Dravidian); but starting with research by > Ramasamy, Lakshmi Bai, and Steever, it has become clear that the structures > are indigenous to Dravidian, and I have presented arguments and evidence > that the Sanskrit/Indo-Aryan structures are inherited from > Proto-Indo-European. > > There is, however, one important behavioral difference: Dravidian relative > clauses can only precede their correlative counterparts; in > Sanskrit/Indo-Aryan (and PIE) they can either precede or follow (and in > some cases both precede and follow, one on each side). Whether this should > be considered evidence for ?right branching? or ?mixed right- and > left-branching? might be subject to debate (fueled, in many cases, by > theory-internal or even ideological considerations). What is important to > know, however, is that relative-correlatives are a common phenomenon in > languages that would otherwise be considered ?rigid? SOV/verb-final or > left-branching. > > One more thing that is worth bearing in mind. Recent publications by > Pilot-Raichoor (with Murugaiyan) suggest that prehistoric (i.e. pre-Old > Tamil) Dravidian may have been very different in its morphology and, by > implication, in its morphosyntax, with traces still observable in Old Tamil > and elsewhere. At this point, these publications do not seem to have been > subjected to the (obligatory) vetting process; from personal experience I > know that many Dravidologists are skeptical. Nevertheless, this work > suggests that we need to be cautious concerning claims about the syntactic > similarities and differences between Indo-Aryan and Dravidian at, say, 1500 > BC. > > All the best, > > Hans Henrich Hock > > > > On 18 Aug 2015, at 07:58, Robert Zydenbos > wrote: > > George Hart wrote: > > Of course, Sanskrit compounds can seem > difficult if one?s native language does not mimic their syntax. Both > Hindi and Sanskrit are right-branching, whereas Dravidian is > left-branching. > > > Please allow me a bit of nit-picking. If by 'left-branching' we mean > that, e.g., attributes precede the substantives to which they refer, > then both Sanskrit and Hindi (and all the rest of the so-called > Indogermanic / Indo-European languages of India, i.e., 'Indo-Aryan') are > quite left-branching indeed. The so-called 'genitive' in Hindi (which is > actually a kind of adjective, inflected k?-ke-k? according to the gender > and case of the following substantive) already illustrates this. > > Of course it is possible for genitives in Sanskrit or (very rarely) > Hindi to follow the substantives to which they refer, esp. for metrical > reasons in verse. But it seems that also in Sanskrit prose, genitives, > as attributive words, as a rule precede that to which they refer ? which > is precisely not the tendency in a language such as Latin, which has a > more clearly right-branching tendency. I think that this syntactic > feature is one more bit of evidence that the Indo-Aryan languages were > heavily Dravidianized already from their earliest historical beginnings, > as F.B.J. Kuijper and others have pointed out. > > Naturally, people who speak those languages find > Sanskrit compounds, which are left-branching like Dravidian languages, > somewhat difficult. > > > Indeed the internal structure of sam?sas is left-branching, which may > explain why an author like R?m?nuj?c?rya in Tami?n??u sometimes uses > very long compounds such as are uncommon among philosophical authors. > > Stella Sandahl wrote: > > The Sanskrit compound is not at all as complicated as students (and even > teachers) like to think. > > > Indeed. Though there may be statistically determinable average limits of > quick comprehension among ordinary readers, I am sure that it is largely > a matter of what one is accustomed to. > > RZ > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing > committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or > unsubscribe) > > > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing > committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or > unsubscribe) > -- ? ?? ?????: ?????? ????? ??????: ll Let noble thoughts come to us from every side. - Rig Veda, I-89-i. Assoc Prof. Department of Sanskrit Studies University of Hyderabad Prof. C.R. Rao Road Hyderabad-500 046 (91) 040 23133802(off) http://sanskrit.uohyd.ernet.in/scl http://sanskrit.uohyd.ernet.in/faculty/amba -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From nagarajpaturi at gmail.com Wed Aug 19 06:29:29 2015 From: nagarajpaturi at gmail.com (Nagaraj Paturi) Date: Wed, 19 Aug 15 11:59:29 +0530 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Hindi v Sanskrit Message-ID: Dear Prof. Kulkarni, copula : Can this be point of distinction between Dravidian and Indian IE languages? Vedic, Sanskrit and Prakrits too have the copula-less NP-NP sentences. Malayalam has the copula aaNu in affirmative NP-NP sentences. The negative forms of the affirmative NP-NP sentences in almost all Dravidian languages have copula (kaadu/kaanu/kaavu type). This evidence in negative sentences leads to the consideration of Ak (Tamil) Agu(Kaannada) Agu (Telugu) derived copula in the 'ground structure' of the copula-less surface structures. Does this descriptive consideration have a historical implication for pre-historic Dravidian syntax? Bhartrihari in VP calls the copula-less NP-NP sentences in Sanskrit as 'as'rutakriyAvAkya'. At some places he uses expressions such as kriyAs which are s'rutA or as'rutA. This implies that for Bhartrihari 'kriyA' (asti/bhavati type) does exist in these sentences in an as'rutA form. Can the Vedic Sanskrit Prakrit NP-NP structure be considered as Dravidian influence? -- Prof.Nagaraj Paturi Hyderabad-500044 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From nagarajpaturi at gmail.com Wed Aug 19 07:47:52 2015 From: nagarajpaturi at gmail.com (Nagaraj Paturi) Date: Wed, 19 Aug 15 13:17:52 +0530 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Hindi v Sanskrit Message-ID: A correction that matters: >Ak (Tamil) ,Agu(Kaannada, )Agu (Telugu) It is agu (Telugu) An info that is required: copula (kaadu/kaanu/kaavu type) is from Telugu -N -- Prof.Nagaraj Paturi -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From nagarajpaturi at gmail.com Wed Aug 19 09:48:07 2015 From: nagarajpaturi at gmail.com (Nagaraj Paturi) Date: Wed, 19 Aug 15 15:18:07 +0530 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Hindi v Sanskrit In-Reply-To: Message-ID: 1. > This freedom is often contrasted with the supposedly very rigid structure of Modern Dravidian. The rigidity or flexibility of word order or phrase order in Dravidian is genre-specific rather than time period specific. 'a fair amount of phrase-order freedom, including structures that are verb-initial, with all other elements extraposed to the right' are found in modern Dravidian languages too in the literary genres such as plays, novels, short-stories, poetry including free verse as much abundantly as in old/classical literary versions of them. The impression of rigidity is probably based on the rarity of liberty taken with word order or phrase order in discursive writing in modern journalistic and non-literary prose forms. 2. Another point of contrast is the passive voice. Sanskrit has abundance of it. In Dravidian it does not exist in the speakers not influenced by Sanskrit or English; even among those who are exposed, it does not exist in the informal contexts such as day to day conversations. 3. One more aspect of contrast is the vs'Eshya-vis'EshaNa agreement in linga, vibhakti and vachana found in Sanskrit not found in Dravidian. 4. Reconstruction of older/ pre-historic Dravidian syntax is done on the basis of the points such as many verb forms in Dravidian being periphrastic indicating their origin in a participle based predicate NP in an NP-NP structure of pre-historic times; case marker suffixes having a history of coming from independent words and always getting added to a nominal stem of genitive case indicating the vibhakti forms of these languages being shashThee samAsas in prehistoric times and similar such observations about the possible past forms of the documented Dravidian expressions. . 5. 'k' of kA/kE/kI and kO in Hindi is suspected to be related to the dative and possessive Dravidian 'kk' /k. 6. Phrase order in an NP-NP has a rigidity to the extent that always the first NP is the subject and the second NP is the predicate. Let us compare ???? ???????? ???????? ? ???????? ???????? ????? ???? ?????? ? ???? ???????? ???????? ????? is the subject. ???????? ???????? is the predicate. ???????? ???????? ??? ???????? ???????? ????? ???????? ???????? is the subject. ???? is the predicate. Similar structure is in Dravidian NP-NP too. - N -- Prof.Nagaraj Paturi -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mmdesh at umich.edu Wed Aug 19 11:37:36 2015 From: mmdesh at umich.edu (Madhav Deshpande) Date: Wed, 19 Aug 15 07:37:36 -0400 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Vedic/Sutra affiliation Message-ID: Dear Colleagues, We know that each Brahmin is affiliated traditionally with a particular Veda/Shakha and a particular S?tra. However, what is the ritual affiliation for those Brahmins who are traditionally called Dvivedi, Trivedi and Chaturvedi? Do they have concurrent multiple Vedic/Sutra affiliations? I was told by the Ratate family in Banaras that their personal Vedic affiliation is with ?gveda, and yet academically/professionally they became Atharvavedins. I am wondering if the situation with Dvivedis, Trivedis and Chaturvedis is similar, in the sense that they academically study two, three or four Vedas, and yet have a particular one Veda as their family affiliation. Any information, including textual references, would be helpful. With best wishes, Madhav Deshpande Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA -- Madhav M. Deshpande Professor of Sanskrit and Linguistics Department of Asian Languages and Cultures 202 South Thayer Street, Suite 6111 The University of Michigan Ann Arbor, MI 48104-1608, USA -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From klaus.karttunen at helsinki.fi Wed Aug 19 11:43:22 2015 From: klaus.karttunen at helsinki.fi (Klaus Karttunen) Date: Wed, 19 Aug 15 14:43:22 +0300 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Vedic/Sutra affiliation In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <5738A75B-BCA8-412E-A16B-AE2EEF9FA02A@helsinki.fi> Dear Colleagues, I dont know the answer (but like very much to learn it), but one fact is that at least in some parts of India ?gveda is considered more prestigious than others. I have met Brahmans in South India, who proudly announce to belong to Rigveda, but when asked about their Shakha, admit to belong to Apastamba. Best, Klaus Klaus Karttunen South Asian and Indoeuropean Studies Asian and African Studies, Department of World Cultures PL 59 (Unioninkatu 38 B) 00014 University of Helsinki, FINLAND Tel +358-(0)2941 4482418 Fax +358-(0)2941 22094 Klaus.Karttunen at helsinki.fi > On 19 Aug 2015, at 14:37, Madhav Deshpande wrote: > > Dear Colleagues, > > We know that each Brahmin is affiliated traditionally with a particular Veda/Shakha and a particular S?tra. However, what is the ritual affiliation for those Brahmins who are traditionally called Dvivedi, Trivedi and Chaturvedi? Do they have concurrent multiple Vedic/Sutra affiliations? I was told by the Ratate family in Banaras that their personal Vedic affiliation is with ?gveda, and yet academically/professionally they became Atharvavedins. I am wondering if the situation with Dvivedis, Trivedis and Chaturvedis is similar, in the sense that they academically study two, three or four Vedas, and yet have a particular one Veda as their family affiliation. Any information, including textual references, would be helpful. With best wishes, > > Madhav Deshpande > Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA > > -- > Madhav M. Deshpande > Professor of Sanskrit and Linguistics > Department of Asian Languages and Cultures > 202 South Thayer Street, Suite 6111 > The University of Michigan > Ann Arbor, MI 48104-1608, USA > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From catherine.clementin-ojha at ehess.fr Wed Aug 19 12:05:55 2015 From: catherine.clementin-ojha at ehess.fr (Clementin Catherine) Date: Wed, 19 Aug 15 14:05:55 +0200 Subject: =?utf-8?Q?[INDOLOGY]_Re=C2=A0:_Re:__Vedic/Sutra_affiliation?= In-Reply-To: <5738A75B-BCA8-412E-A16B-AE2EEF9FA02A@helsinki.fi> Message-ID: <1142263486.25276633.1439985955890.JavaMail.zimbra@ehess.fr> Dear Colleagues, In the autobiographical speech that he delivered in Pune in 1875, Day?nanda Sarasvat? declared that he was an ud?cya brahmin ; that the ud?cya brahmins were sam?ved?, but that he himself was made to study the Yajurveda (adding ?with some difficulty?). See Bhav?n?l?la Bh?rat?ya, P?na pravacana ? Upade?a ma?jar?, Ajmer, Vaidika pustak?laya, 1985, p. 111. Note that in the autobiography published in October 1879 by the theosophists, DS does not mention his Vedic affiliation at all (The Theosophist I, 1, p. 9-12)Best, Catherine Clementin-Ojha, Paris ----- Mail d'origine ----- De: Klaus Karttunen ?: Madhav Deshpande Cc: indology at list.indology.info Envoy?: Wed, 19 Aug 2015 13:43:22 +0200 (CEST) Objet: Re: [INDOLOGY] Vedic/Sutra affiliation Dear Colleagues,I dont know the answer (but like very much to learn it), but one fact is that at least in some parts of India ?gveda is considered more prestigious than others. I have met Brahmans in South India, who proudly announce to belong to Rigveda, but when asked about their Shakha, admit to belong to Apastamba.Best,KlausKlaus KarttunenSouth Asian and Indoeuropean StudiesAsian and African Studies, Department of World CulturesPL 59 (Unioninkatu 38 B)00014 University of Helsinki, FINLANDTel +358-(0)2941 4482418Fax +358-(0)2941 22094Klaus.Karttunen at helsinki.fiOn 19 Aug 2015, at 14:37, Madhav Deshpande wrote:Dear Colleagues, We know that each Brahmin is affiliated traditionally with a particular Veda/Shakha and a particular S?tra. However, what is the ritual affiliation for those Brahmins who are traditionally called Dvivedi, Trivedi and Chaturvedi? Do they have concurrent multiple Vedic/Sutra affiliations? I was told by the Ratate family in Banaras that their personal Vedic affiliation is with ?gveda, and yet academically/professionally they became Atharvavedins. I am wondering if the situation with Dvivedis, Trivedis and Chaturvedis is similar, in the sense that they academically study two, three or four Vedas, and yet have a particular one Veda as their family affiliation. Any information, including textual references, would be helpful. With best wishes,Madhav DeshpandeAnn Arbor, Michigan, USA-- Madhav M. DeshpandeProfessor of Sanskrit and LinguisticsDepartment of Asian Languages and Cultures202 South Thayer Street, Suite 6111The University of MichiganAnn Arbor, MI 48104-1608, USA _______________________________________________INDOLOGY mailing listINDOLOGY at list.indology.infoindology-owner@list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee)http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From shrimaitreya at gmail.com Wed Aug 19 12:08:52 2015 From: shrimaitreya at gmail.com ((Maitreya) Borayin Larios) Date: Wed, 19 Aug 15 14:08:52 +0200 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Vedic/Sutra affiliation In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Dear Prof. Deshpande, What I observed with the few Br?hma?as of Maharashtra that learned more than one Veda is that they usually affiliate to the first Veda they learned as their sva??kh? (which should be the Veda of their family, thus determined by birth, although this is often not the case). The additional Vedas learned after their own Veda (usually portions thereof or the Sa?hit? of the next Veda at the most) are usually considered secondary. In some cases the second Veda learned is more important for their ritual activities. For example I witnessed that some Yajurvedins had learned the S?maveda and thus were known and hired often for their expertise in chanting the second Veda (as there are fewer S?mavedins in Maharashtra), yet still considered Taittir?ya their sva??kh? and ?pastambha or Hira?yake?? their S?tra. I hope this anecdotal information helps. If I remember correctly Scharfe in his Education in Ancient India (2002) collected some of the textual references on the rules of first learning one's sva??kh? and then proceeding to the next Veda, but unfortunately, I do not have the book at hand right now. Best, Borayin Larios [image: --] Borayin Maitreya Larios [image: http://]about.me/borayin.larios J?gerpfad 13 69118 Heidelberg Germany Office: (+49) 6221548939 Mobile: (+49) 17672329143 http://www.sai.uni-heidelberg.de/abt/IND/mitarbeiter/larios/larios.php On Wed, Aug 19, 2015 at 1:37 PM, Madhav Deshpande wrote: > Dear Colleagues, > > We know that each Brahmin is affiliated traditionally with a > particular Veda/Shakha and a particular S?tra. However, what is the ritual > affiliation for those Brahmins who are traditionally called Dvivedi, > Trivedi and Chaturvedi? Do they have concurrent multiple Vedic/Sutra > affiliations? I was told by the Ratate family in Banaras that their > personal Vedic affiliation is with ?gveda, and yet > academically/professionally they became Atharvavedins. I am wondering if > the situation with Dvivedis, Trivedis and Chaturvedis is similar, in the > sense that they academically study two, three or four Vedas, and yet have a > particular one Veda as their family affiliation. Any information, > including textual references, would be helpful. With best wishes, > > Madhav Deshpande > Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA > > -- > Madhav M. Deshpande > Professor of Sanskrit and Linguistics > Department of Asian Languages and Cultures > 202 South Thayer Street, Suite 6111 > The University of Michigan > Ann Arbor, MI 48104-1608, USA > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing > committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or > unsubscribe) > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From davidpaolo.pierdominicileao at uniroma1.it Wed Aug 19 13:11:52 2015 From: davidpaolo.pierdominicileao at uniroma1.it (David Pierdominici) Date: Wed, 19 Aug 15 15:11:52 +0200 Subject: [INDOLOGY] PDF Message-ID: Dear all members, does anyone have a Pdf scan copy of the Naisadhacarita? Thank you very much. Best wishes, DP From hhhock at illinois.edu Wed Aug 19 13:59:09 2015 From: hhhock at illinois.edu (Hock, Hans Henrich) Date: Wed, 19 Aug 15 13:59:09 +0000 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Hindi v Sanskrit In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <8EB1B4C0-8B38-473B-AEE7-BD7EA065E4D3@illinois.edu> Dear Professor Nagaraj Paturi, The use of the verb ?be? in Vedic and later Sanskrit is complex. If the subject and tense can be determined from context, it may be omitted. If that is not the case, or if there is a special modality, it will normally be supplied. So you may get things like sa? r?j? (asti) ?he is (a/the) king?, aham r?j? (asmi) ?I am king?; but only r?j? asmi, not plain r?j?; further, you will need to use ?be? if you want to express non-indicative modality, as in (sa?) r?j? sy?t. (There are also genre-based differences. For instance in Vedic Prose there is the common construction of the type tad (?) asya dugdha? bhavati with stative function: ?that is milked/obtained for him?. Here ?be? seems to be required and, interestingly, in the optative you typically get sy?t not bhavet.) The fact that ?be? can be omitted under certain conditions is inherited from PIE, and there has been a fairly extensive discussion of this issue, commonly under the heading ?nominal sentences?. In (early) Dravidian, of course, you have a different strategy, namely to put personal agreement markers on predicate nominals. And that has no counterpart in Vedic or later Sanskrit. So, I would say that the similarities between Sanskrit and (early) Dravidian are superficial; their overall predicate syntax differs considerably. All the best, Hans Henrich Hock On 19 Aug 2015, at 01:29, Nagaraj Paturi > wrote: Dear Prof. Kulkarni, copula : Can this be point of distinction between Dravidian and Indian IE languages? Vedic, Sanskrit and Prakrits too have the copula-less NP-NP sentences. Malayalam has the copula aaNu in affirmative NP-NP sentences. The negative forms of the affirmative NP-NP sentences in almost all Dravidian languages have copula (kaadu/kaanu/kaavu type). This evidence in negative sentences leads to the consideration of Ak (Tamil) Agu(Kaannada) Agu (Telugu) derived copula in the 'ground structure' of the copula-less surface structures. Does this descriptive consideration have a historical implication for pre-historic Dravidian syntax? Bhartrihari in VP calls the copula-less NP-NP sentences in Sanskrit as 'as'rutakriyAvAkya'. At some places he uses expressions such as kriyAs which are s'rutA or as'rutA. This implies that for Bhartrihari 'kriyA' (asti/bhavati type) does exist in these sentences in an as'rutA form. Can the Vedic Sanskrit Prakrit NP-NP structure be considered as Dravidian influence? -- Prof.Nagaraj Paturi Hyderabad-500044 _______________________________________________ INDOLOGY mailing list INDOLOGY at list.indology.info indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From nmisra at gmail.com Wed Aug 19 14:15:45 2015 From: nmisra at gmail.com (Nityanand Misra) Date: Wed, 19 Aug 15 19:45:45 +0530 Subject: [INDOLOGY] PDF In-Reply-To: Message-ID: You can download from Digital Library of India Barcode 4990010210543. It is edited with notes by Pandit Sivadatta. I have a PDF but it is 93 MB in size. The original text in Unicode is attached. This is from the Pandanus Sanskrit Texts website. On Wed, Aug 19, 2015 at 6:41 PM, David Pierdominici < davidpaolo.pierdominicileao at uniroma1.it> wrote: > Dear all members, > > does anyone have a Pdf scan copy of the Naisadhacarita? > Thank you very much. > Best wishes, > DP > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing > committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or > unsubscribe) > -- Nity?nanda Mi?ra http://nmisra.googlepages.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- An embedded and charset-unspecified text was scrubbed... Name: naisadhiyacaritam.txt URL: From nagarajpaturi at gmail.com Wed Aug 19 14:59:26 2015 From: nagarajpaturi at gmail.com (Nagaraj Paturi) Date: Wed, 19 Aug 15 20:29:26 +0530 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Hindi v Sanskrit Message-ID: Can the Vedic Sanskrit Prakrit NP-NP structure be considered as Dravidian influence? ------------------ Nagaraj > So, I would say that the similarities between Sanskrit and (early) Dravidian are superficial; their overall predicate syntax differs considerably. -------Prof. Hans Henrich Hock Answer to Nagaraj's question from Prof. Hans Henrich Hock : No, the Vedic Sanskrit Prakrit NP-NP structure can not be considered as Dravidian influence. Am I right ? -- Prof.Nagaraj Paturi Hyderabad-500044 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dipak.d2004 at gmail.com Wed Aug 19 16:32:08 2015 From: dipak.d2004 at gmail.com (Dipak Bhattacharya) Date: Wed, 19 Aug 15 22:02:08 +0530 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Vedic/Sutra affiliation Message-ID: I shall state one point about the status of Vedic affiliation in tradition and the ??stras. One sees that among followers of tradition, affiliation to a particular Veda is something immutable. But this position could not be very old. Is there any relevant rule in the late Vedic scripture or the Dharma??stras on that? One finds gotra rules of endogamy and exogamy (Baudh?yana) but none about Vedic affiliation. It must have been later that the situation gained a static position. I myself suffered from objection raised against my (and earlier my father?s) working on the Atharvaveda. The particular word used by the person, revered by many, when he came to know that I was a ?gvedin, was so demeaning that I cannot print it here. But is not this strictness non-??stric? As far as I know there is no ??stric entity as ?gvedin or S?mavedin or Yajurvedin. It is not impossible that Day?nand Sarasvati knew the position of the ??stras in this regard. He changed his object in Vedic study and was not quite vocal about his Vedic affiliation. He was in agreement with the scriptures in that. If my idea is not correct someone may kindly point out. Best Dipak Bhattacharya On Wed, Aug 19, 2015 at 5:35 PM, Clementin Catherine < catherine.clementin-ojha at ehess.fr> wrote: > Dear Colleagues, > > In the autobiographical speech that he delivered in Pune in 1875, Day?nanda > Sarasvat? declared that he was an ud?cya brahmin ; that the ud?cya > brahmins were sam?ved?, but that he himself was made to study the > Yajurveda (adding ?with some difficulty?). See Bhav?n?l?la Bh?rat?ya*, P**?na > pravacana **? Upade?a ma?jar?, *Ajmer, Vaidika pustak?laya, 1985, p. 111. > > Note that in the autobiography published in October 1879 by the > theosophists, DS does not mention his Vedic affiliation at all (*The > Theosophist* I, 1, p. 9-12) > > Best, > > Catherine Clementin-Ojha, Paris > > ----- Mail d'origine ----- > De: Klaus Karttunen > ?: Madhav Deshpande > Cc: indology at list.indology.info > Envoy?: Wed, 19 Aug 2015 13:43:22 +0200 (CEST) > Objet: Re: [INDOLOGY] Vedic/Sutra affiliation > > Dear Colleagues, > I dont know the answer (but like very much to learn it), but one fact is > that at least in some parts of India ?gveda is considered more prestigious > than others. I have met Brahmans in South India, who proudly announce to > belong to Rigveda, but when asked about their Shakha, admit to belong to > Apastamba. > > Best, > Klaus > > Klaus Karttunen > South Asian and Indoeuropean Studies > Asian and African Studies, Department of World Cultures > PL 59 (Unioninkatu 38 B) > 00014 University of Helsinki, FINLAND > Tel +358-(0)2941 4482418 > Fax +358-(0)2941 22094 > Klaus.Karttunen at helsinki.fi > > > > > > > On 19 Aug 2015, at 14:37, Madhav Deshpande wrote: > > Dear Colleagues, > > We know that each Brahmin is affiliated traditionally with a > particular Veda/Shakha and a particular S?tra. However, what is the ritual > affiliation for those Brahmins who are traditionally called Dvivedi, > Trivedi and Chaturvedi? Do they have concurrent multiple Vedic/Sutra > affiliations? I was told by the Ratate family in Banaras that their > personal Vedic affiliation is with ?gveda, and yet > academically/professionally they became Atharvavedins. I am wondering if > the situation with Dvivedis, Trivedis and Chaturvedis is similar, in the > sense that they academically study two, three or four Vedas, and yet have a > particular one Veda as their family affiliation. Any information, > including textual references, would be helpful. With best wishes, > > Madhav Deshpande > Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA > > -- > Madhav M. Deshpande > Professor of Sanskrit and Linguistics > Department of Asian Languages and Cultures > 202 South Thayer Street, Suite 6111 > The University of Michigan > Ann Arbor, MI 48104-1608, USA > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing > committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or > unsubscribe) > > > > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing > committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or > unsubscribe) > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From yogacara at gmail.com Wed Aug 19 21:53:35 2015 From: yogacara at gmail.com (Dan Lusthaus) Date: Wed, 19 Aug 15 17:53:35 -0400 Subject: [INDOLOGY] quotations In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <0F2EFAA057C142AD93BA99A491144267@Dan> Colleagues, A heads-up to the upcoming November issue of the Journal of Indian Philosophy, which takes on the question of citations, quotations, borrowings, recyclings, etc. in a broad range of literature. Journal of Indian Philosophy ; Nov 2015; Vol. 43 (4-5) 10 Items 1 The Case of the S?rasa?gaha: Reflections on the Reuse of Texts in Medieval Sinhalese Pali Literature Neri, Chiara. Journal of Indian Philosophy43.4-5 (Nov 2015): 335-388. 2 The Creative Erudition of Chapa?a Saddhammajotip?la, a 15th-Century Grammarian and Philosopher from Burma Ruiz-falqu?s, Aleix. Journal of Indian Philosophy43.4-5 (Nov 2015): 389-426. 3 Quotatives Indicating Quotations in P?li Commentarial Literature, I Iti/ti and Quotatives with Vutta? Kieffer-p?lz, Petra. Journal of Indian Philosophy43.4-5 (Nov 2015): 427-452. 4 Text Re-use in Early Tibetan Epistemological Treatises Hugon, Pascale. Journal of Indian Philosophy43.4-5 (Nov 2015): 453-491. 5 "As it is said in a Sutra": Freedom and Variation in Quotations from the Buddhist Scriptures in Early Bka'-gdams-pa literature Roesler, Ulrike. Journal of Indian Philosophy43.4-5 (Nov 2015): 493-510. 6 Some Problems Concerning Textual Reuses in the Madhyamakaratnaprad?pa , with a Discussion of the Quotation from Saraha?s Doh?ko?ag?ti Del Toso, Krishna. Journal of Indian Philosophy43.4-5 (Nov 2015): 511-557. 7 Quotations in Vedic Literature: Is the Changing of a Mantra a Stylistic Device or the Degeneration of a "Beautiful Mind?" Mucciarelli, Elena. Journal of Indian Philosophy43.4-5 (Nov 2015): 559-579. 8 To Borrow or not to Borrow? Some Remarks on vaibhav?yanarasi?hakalpa of S?tvatasa?hit? Dbicka-borek, Ewa. Journal of Indian Philosophy43.4-5 (Nov 2015): 581-600. 9 Observations on the Use of Quotations in Sanskrit Dharmanibandhas De Simini, Florinda. Journal of Indian Philosophy43.4-5 (Nov 2015): 601-624. 10 Re-use in the Art Field: The Iconography of Yak?? Bignami, Cristina. Journal of Indian Philosophy43.4-5 (Nov 2015): 625-648. A timely issue. Dan Lusthaus -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From nagarajpaturi at gmail.com Thu Aug 20 14:24:55 2015 From: nagarajpaturi at gmail.com (Nagaraj Paturi) Date: Thu, 20 Aug 15 19:54:55 +0530 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Hindi v Sanskrit Message-ID: Coming back to the initial question of dIrgha and atidIrgha sanskrita samAsas vis-?-vis contemporary Indian languages, 1. In the mythological verse-theatre, yakshagana-theatre and mythological films in Telugu (as in Kannada and Malayalam), dIrgha and atidIrgha sanskrita samAsas are used for the aesthetic effects that are identified in alankAra s'Astra (such as rItI, vritti etc.). The audience who undergo a rapture and express it in an outburst of applause are usually the common public mostly rural, not exposed to Sanskritic or English/modern education. Even the performers in folk yakshagAna theatre and folk narrative performing arts who render the dIrgha and atidIrgha sanskrita samAsas do not have such educations. 2. In satsangs and satsang type religious programs too speakers rendering such samAsas receive a highly positive reception. -N -- Prof.Nagaraj Paturi -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From krishnaprasadah.g at gmail.com Thu Aug 20 15:04:03 2015 From: krishnaprasadah.g at gmail.com (Krishnaprasad G) Date: Thu, 20 Aug 15 20:34:03 +0530 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Setuyatranuvarnana Message-ID: Namaste Dear all I am searching for details of the work Setuyatranuvarnana by T Ganapaty Shastri. In the book History of Sanskrit Literature by Krsnamacariar mentions that the MS of the work is in his home(even I tried contacting his grandchildren but no success), but in the book Kaumudikatha Kallolini the name of the work is quoted which leads to suspect that the work would have printed after 1930s. Please if any one knows the details of the edition of the book let me know. Yours sincerely Krishnaprasad PhD candidate Karnataka Samskrita University Bengaluru - INDIA Thanks -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From wujastyk at gmail.com Fri Aug 21 04:04:07 2015 From: wujastyk at gmail.com (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Thu, 20 Aug 15 22:04:07 -0600 Subject: [INDOLOGY] CfP: DiXiT Convention "Digital Editions: Academia, Society, Cultural Heritage", Cologne, 16-18 March 2016 [feedly] Message-ID: ---- *CfP: DiXiT Convention "Digital Editions: Academia, Society, Cultural Heritage", Cologne, 16-18 March 2016* // *TEI-L* *please circulate widely* *apologies for cross-posting* DiXiT Convention "Digital Editions: Academia, Society, Cultural Heritage", Cologne, 16-18 March 2016 Call for papers The Cologne Center for eHumanities is organizing the second DiXiT convention, taking place 16-18 March 2015 in Cologne, Germany. The conference will be preceded by a day dedicated to workshops on: * Publishing Models for Digital Scholarly Editions * Aggregation of Digital Cultural Content and Metadata Mapping * XML-Free Scholarly Editing The convention organizers invite contributions from everyone working in the field of scholarly editing and its neighbouring areas. Early career scholars are welcome. I. Topics While the convention is open to any research about digital scholarly editing, the focus will be on its relation to academia, society and cultural heritage. As such, topics for the sessions may especially include: * textual criticism and the future of the high standard critical edition * open/public knowledge: mutual benefit for academia & society * social editing, crowdsourcing, citizen science * issues of rights and ethics related to scholarly editions * scholarly curation and usage of cultural heritage data * museums, libraries & archives as data providers for the edition * dissemination, sustainability and addressability of digital heritage assets * publishing the edition and the role of publishers * editors and the job market: career prospects * and others We encourage exploratory papers and posters. II. Submissions We invite proposals for papers and posters. In the case of papers, speakers will be given 20 minutes for presentation and 10 minutes for discussion. We ask those interested in presenting a paper or poster to email their proposal to [hidden email] . The proposal should include: * name and email of the presenter * title of the paper * abstract (ca. 400 words) The deadline for submission is 16 October 2015. A decision about acceptance and the subsequent notifications will be made in early December 2015. Information about registration for the convention and workshops will follow. Every announcement can be found on the DiXiT website: http://dixit.uni-koeln.de/. -- On behalf of the Organization Committee -- Dr. Franz Fischer Cologne Center for eHumanities Universit?t zu K?ln, Universit?tsstr. 22, D-50923 K?ln Telefon: +49 - (0)221 - 470 - 4056 Email: [hidden email] -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- http://www.cceh.uni-koeln.de http://www.i-d-e.de http://www.thomasinstitut.uni-koeln.de http://dixit.uni-koeln.de http://guillelmus.uni-koeln.de http://confessio.ie ---- Shared via *my feedly reader* -- Sent from Dominik Wujastyk's Android phone -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mbroo at abo.fi Fri Aug 21 12:30:14 2015 From: mbroo at abo.fi (mbroo at abo.fi) Date: Fri, 21 Aug 15 15:30:14 +0300 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Visnuyamala? Message-ID: <20150821153014.e7hrgcz01s0s4w8k@webmail1.abo.fi> Dear list members, While looking for verses quoted in a late Tantric text, I came across a reference to a text called Visnuyamala. As far as I understand, this is an unpublished text, but if anyone has any information about it (or even better, mss scans!), I would be most thankful. Sincerely M?ns Broo -- Dr. M?ns Broo Senior Lecturer of Comparative Religion Editor of Temenos, Nordic Journal of Comparative Religion ?bo Akademi University Fabriksgatan 2 FI-20500 ?bo, Finland phone: +358-2-2154398 fax: +358-2-2154902 mobile: +358-50-5695754 From a.murugaiyan at wanadoo.fr Fri Aug 21 14:12:15 2015 From: a.murugaiyan at wanadoo.fr (a.murugaiyan) Date: Fri, 21 Aug 15 16:12:15 +0200 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Hindi v Sanskrit In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <55D731BF.5020504@wanadoo.fr> Dear Professor Hart and Colleagues, The morphosyntax and word order in Old and Pre-old Tamil are very captivating and intriguing.The only structure where we notice a strict and regular constituent order is in the case of ?determinans- determinatum?. In other cases the order of constituent is conditioned mostly by ?information structure? rather than the strictly syntactic functions. I would like to complete the bibliographical reference and add few more publications on the issue. Our work on a selected corpus of Classical Tamil has been published: A. Murugaiyan et Christiane Pilot-Raichoor, (2004) ? Les pr?dications indiff?renci?es en dravidien : t?moins d'une ?volution typologique archa?que ?, /Les constituants pr?dicatifs et la diversit? des langues, (M?moires de la Soci?te Linguistique de Paris/, tome 14), Louvain, Peeters, p. 155-177. We are currently working on an extended corpus of the Sangam literature. Pilot-Raichoor has published another important article based on the Tamil-Br?hm? corpus (2012)?Tamil Brahmi inscriptions: a Critical Landmark in the History of the Dravidian Languages? in Appasamy Murugaiyan (Ed.) /New Dimensions in Tamil Epigraphy: /(Papers from symposia held at Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes, Section des Sciences historiques et philologiques, Paris in 2005 and 2006; and few special papers), CreA publishers, Chennai, 317-349. On the Sangam texts, there is an article on what is known as ?Dative Subjects? among the South Asian linguists: A. Murugaiyan, 2004. ? Note sur les pr?dications exp?rientielles en tamoul classique ?, /Bulletin de la Soci?t? de Linguistique de Paris, /99, p. 363-382. On the Tamil Inscriptions I have published two articles: A. Murugaiyan. 2012. ?Hero Stone Inscriptions in Tamil (450-650 CE.): Text to Meaning: A Functional Perspective?, Appasamy Murugaiyan (Ed.) /New Dimensions in Tamil Epigraphy: /(Papers from symposia held at Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes, Section des Sciences historiques et philologiques, Paris in 2005 and 2006; and few special papers), CreA publishers, Chennai, 316-351. And A. Murugaiyan. 2015. Identifying Basic Constituent Order in Old Tamil: Issues in historical linguistics with Special Reference to Tamil Epigraphic texts (400-650 CE). /International Journal of Dravidian Linguistics, /Vol. 44 No. 2. 1-18. Best wishes, A. Murugaiyan *Appasamy Murugaiyan* EPHE-UMR 7528 Mondes iranien et indien 27 rue Paul-Bert 94204- Ivry-sur-Seine. France Le 19/08/2015 02:20, George Hart a ?crit : > This is fascinating ? thanks. I have gone over a good part of Sangam > literature carefully and cannot remember ever finding a relative > clause, though of course this doesn?t mean they didn?t exist. > Certainly they are fairly common in modern Tamil. It would be > interesting to know when they first appear in the literature and > whether they are documented in other premodern Dravidian literatures. > Regarding word order, it is true, as Susan Herring shows, that old > Tamil often does not put the finite verb at the end. But it should be > noted that in the case of converbials (adverbial participials) and > adjectival participles, the verb form always comes at the end of its > phrase ? nothing after it can be construed with it unless it is the > noun construed with the participial adjective, in which case the noun > must directly follow it or (occasionally) be very near it. In this > way, the word order of old Tamil is thoroughly constrained, as far as > I can see. Sanskrit, obviously, is completely different, allowing > related words to be far apart. > > I am looking forward to finding out about the theories of > Pilot-Ramichoor and Murugaiyan about pre-old-Tamil morphology ? hope > they are published. > > I am glad my mistake (saying Hindi was right-branching) led to a very > intriguing discussion. George Hart > >> On Aug 18, 2015, at 9:37 AM, Hock, Hans Henrich > > wrote: >> >> Let me add a few more cents? worth. >> >> The idea that Indo-Aryan, including Sanskrit, fundamentally differs >> from Dravidian in its syntactic typology, though sanctioned by a >> certain ?tradition? in South Asian linguistics, is problematic on >> several counts. >> >> First, the only area in which (most of) Modern Indo-Aryan can be said >> to be robustly right-branching is that of Complement structures >> (marked by /ki/ke/jo/je/) ? a relatively recent phenomenon, >> reflecting Persian influence. (Some of the languages also are >> beginning to adopt postnominal, center-embedded relative clauses, >> most likely based on the English model.) >> >> Earlier Indo-Aryan is essentially left-branching, but with a fair >> amount of word-order (and not just phrase-order) freedom, depending >> on genre. This freedom is often contrasted with the supposedly very >> rigid structure of Modern Dravidian. However, Susan Herring has >> furnished excellent evidence from Old Tamil attesting to a fair >> amount of phrase-order freedom, includiing structures that are >> verb-initial, with all other elements extraposed to the right. I have >> observed similar freedom (through interviews) in a colloquial variety >> of Modern Kannada, and I suspect that the rigidity attributed to the >> modern (literary) languages is an effect of diglossia, similar to the >> relatively more rigid sentence structure of modern literary German, >> as contrasted with colloquial or dialectal varieties. >> >> Another feature shared by traditional Indo-Aryan, including Sanskrit, >> and Dravidian is the fact that relativization can be encoded both in >> nonfinite form, through (relative) participles, and in finite form, >> through relative-correlative structures. The latter had for a long >> time been considered to be Indo-Aryan borrowings in Dravidian (and >> some linguists considered the Indo-Aryan counterparts to somehow >> reflect an innovation, triggered by contact with Dravidian); but >> starting with research by Ramasamy, Lakshmi Bai, and Steever, it has >> become clear that the structures are indigenous to Dravidian, and I >> have presented arguments and evidence that the Sanskrit/Indo-Aryan >> structures are inherited from Proto-Indo-European. >> >> There is, however, one important behavioral difference: Dravidian >> relative clauses can only precede their correlative counterparts; in >> Sanskrit/Indo-Aryan (and PIE) they can either precede or follow (and >> in some cases both precede and follow, one on each side). Whether >> this should be considered evidence for ?right branching? or ?mixed >> right- and left-branching? might be subject to debate (fueled, in >> many cases, by theory-internal or even ideological considerations). >> What is important to know, however, is that relative-correlatives are >> a common phenomenon in languages that would otherwise be considered >> ?rigid? SOV/verb-final or left-branching. >> >> One more thing that is worth bearing in mind. Recent publications by >> Pilot-Raichoor (with Murugaiyan) suggest that prehistoric (i.e. >> pre-Old Tamil) Dravidian may have been very different in its >> morphology and, by implication, in its morphosyntax, with traces >> still observable in Old Tamil and elsewhere. At this point, these >> publications do not seem to have been subjected to the (obligatory) >> vetting process; from personal experience I know that many >> Dravidologists are skeptical. Nevertheless, this work suggests that >> we need to be cautious concerning claims about the syntactic >> similarities and differences between Indo-Aryan and Dravidian at, >> say, 1500 BC. >> >> All the best, >> >> Hans Henrich Hock >> >> >> >> On 18 Aug 2015, at 07:58, Robert Zydenbos > > wrote: >> >>> George Hart wrote: >>> >>>> Of course, Sanskrit compounds can seem >>>> difficult if one?s native language does not mimic their syntax. Both >>>> Hindi and Sanskrit are right-branching, whereas Dravidian is >>>> left-branching. >>> >>> Please allow me a bit of nit-picking. If by 'left-branching' we mean >>> that, e.g., attributes precede the substantives to which they refer, >>> then both Sanskrit and Hindi (and all the rest of the so-called >>> Indogermanic / Indo-European languages of India, i.e., 'Indo-Aryan') are >>> quite left-branching indeed. The so-called 'genitive' in Hindi (which is >>> actually a kind of adjective, inflected k?-ke-k? according to the gender >>> and case of the following substantive) already illustrates this. >>> >>> Of course it is possible for genitives in Sanskrit or (very rarely) >>> Hindi to follow the substantives to which they refer, esp. for metrical >>> reasons in verse. But it seems that also in Sanskrit prose, genitives, >>> as attributive words, as a rule precede that to which they refer ? which >>> is precisely not the tendency in a language such as Latin, which has a >>> more clearly right-branching tendency. I think that this syntactic >>> feature is one more bit of evidence that the Indo-Aryan languages were >>> heavily Dravidianized already from their earliest historical beginnings, >>> as F.B.J. Kuijper and others have pointed out. >>> >>>> Naturally, people who speak those languages find >>>> Sanskrit compounds, which are left-branching like Dravidian languages, >>>> somewhat difficult. >>> >>> Indeed the internal structure of sam?sas is left-branching, which may >>> explain why an author like R?m?nuj?c?rya in Tami?n??u sometimes uses >>> very long compounds such as are uncommon among philosophical authors. >>> >>> Stella Sandahl wrote: >>> >>>> The Sanskrit compound is not at all as complicated as students (and >>>> even teachers) like to think. >>> >>> Indeed. Though there may be statistically determinable average limits of >>> quick comprehension among ordinary readers, I am sure that it is largely >>> a matter of what one is accustomed to. >>> >>> RZ >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> INDOLOGY mailing list >>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info >>> indology-owner at list.indology.info >>> (messages to the list's >>> managing committee) >>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list >>> options or unsubscribe) >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: EPHE.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 2566 bytes Desc: not available URL: From francois.patte at mi.parisdescartes.fr Fri Aug 21 16:21:41 2015 From: francois.patte at mi.parisdescartes.fr (=?utf-8?Q?Fran=C3=A7ois_Patte?=) Date: Fri, 21 Aug 15 18:21:41 +0200 Subject: =?utf-8?Q?[INDOLOGY]_dates_of_commentaries_on_v=E1=B9=9Bttaratn=C4=81kara?= Message-ID: <55D75015.3010105@mi.parisdescartes.fr> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Bonjour, I recently found a pdf edition of Kedara's v?ttaratn?kara with four commentaries at Gretil-e-library. In this edition, dates of commentaries are not given and I am wondering if someone here could tell me them. These commentaries are: t?tparya??k? by Trivikrama sukavih?day?nandin? by Sulhana chandov?tti? by Somacandra? pa?cik? by R?macandrakavi I found the date for the first one in a van Nooten article (around 10th century), but nothing for the others. Thank you - -- Fran?ois Patte UFR de math?matiques et informatique Laboratoire CNRS MAP5, UMR 8145 Universit? Paris Descartes 45, rue des Saints P?res F-75270 Paris Cedex 06 T?l. +33 (0)1 8394 5849 http://www.math-info.univ-paris5.fr/~patte -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2 iEYEARECAAYFAlXXUBQACgkQdE6C2dhV2JU9MgCgssCEUcSzIzIqp2lyG/cykoh1 +fgAn0R/h28qV6TG3T9/Vsf6yuZ079CA =2fCs -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From andra.kleb at gmail.com Fri Aug 21 21:49:06 2015 From: andra.kleb at gmail.com (Andrey Klebanov) Date: Fri, 21 Aug 15 23:49:06 +0200 Subject: [INDOLOGY] contact to the MS-library in Ujjain Message-ID: <4A0F2ACC-6AC8-4B9B-AB5C-CB325EBF7105@googlemail.com> Dear members of the list, I wonder if anyone of you may have and would be ready to share a working contact to the MS-library in Ujjain (Scindia Oriental Research Institute). Thank you very much in advance, Yours, with best wishes, Andrey Klebanov From sprajapati22 at yahoo.com Sat Aug 22 08:23:00 2015 From: sprajapati22 at yahoo.com (sweta prajapati) Date: Sat, 22 Aug 15 08:23:00 +0000 Subject: hello Message-ID: <1813148272.8546331.1440231780999.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Dear Andrey?This is the number of concerned person in Sindia library Ujjain.09302227019/09993438285 Dr.B.k.Sharma SwetaDirectorOriental InstituteBaroda? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ionut.moise at wolfson.ox.ac.uk Sat Aug 22 16:54:36 2015 From: ionut.moise at wolfson.ox.ac.uk (Ionut Moise) Date: Sat, 22 Aug 15 16:54:36 +0000 Subject: [INDOLOGY] INDOLOGY Digest, Vol 31, Issue 22 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <21DDC2C12EBC824AAAA10E610467CDCB05C22C87@MBX06.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> Does anyone have the access to a transliterated version of Abhidharma Mah?vibh??a ??stra , please ? Many thanks indeed Ionut Moise http://www.theology.ox.ac.uk/people/research-students/ionut-moise.html ________________________________________ From: INDOLOGY [indology-bounces at list.indology.info] on behalf of indology-request at list.indology.info [indology-request at list.indology.info] Sent: 22 August 2015 17:00 To: indology at list.indology.info Subject: INDOLOGY Digest, Vol 31, Issue 22 Send INDOLOGY mailing list submissions to indology at list.indology.info To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://list.indology.info/mailman/listinfo/indology_list.indology.info or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to indology-request at list.indology.info You can reach the person managing the list at indology-owner at list.indology.info When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of INDOLOGY digest..." Today's Topics: 1. dates of commentaries on v?ttaratn?kara (Fran?ois Patte) 2. contact to the MS-library in Ujjain (Andrey Klebanov) 3. hello (sweta prajapati) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2015 18:21:41 +0200 From: Fran?ois Patte To: Indology Subject: [INDOLOGY] dates of commentaries on v?ttaratn?kara Message-ID: <55D75015.3010105 at mi.parisdescartes.fr> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Bonjour, I recently found a pdf edition of Kedara's v?ttaratn?kara with four commentaries at Gretil-e-library. In this edition, dates of commentaries are not given and I am wondering if someone here could tell me them. These commentaries are: t?tparya??k? by Trivikrama sukavih?day?nandin? by Sulhana chandov?tti? by Somacandra? pa?cik? by R?macandrakavi I found the date for the first one in a van Nooten article (around 10th century), but nothing for the others. Thank you - -- Fran?ois Patte UFR de math?matiques et informatique Laboratoire CNRS MAP5, UMR 8145 Universit? Paris Descartes 45, rue des Saints P?res F-75270 Paris Cedex 06 T?l. +33 (0)1 8394 5849 http://www.math-info.univ-paris5.fr/~patte -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2 iEYEARECAAYFAlXXUBQACgkQdE6C2dhV2JU9MgCgssCEUcSzIzIqp2lyG/cykoh1 +fgAn0R/h28qV6TG3T9/Vsf6yuZ079CA =2fCs -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2015 23:49:06 +0200 From: Andrey Klebanov To: "indology at list.indology.info" Subject: [INDOLOGY] contact to the MS-library in Ujjain Message-ID: <4A0F2ACC-6AC8-4B9B-AB5C-CB325EBF7105 at googlemail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Dear members of the list, I wonder if anyone of you may have and would be ready to share a working contact to the MS-library in Ujjain (Scindia Oriental Research Institute). Thank you very much in advance, Yours, with best wishes, Andrey Klebanov ------------------------------ Message: 3 Date: Sat, 22 Aug 2015 08:23:00 +0000 (UTC) From: sweta prajapati To: "INDOLOGY at list.indology.info" Subject: hello Message-ID: <1813148272.8546331.1440231780999.JavaMail.yahoo at mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Dear Andrey?This is the number of concerned person in Sindia library Ujjain.09302227019/09993438285 Dr.B.k.Sharma SwetaDirectorOriental InstituteBaroda? From kauzeya at gmail.com Sat Aug 22 17:48:17 2015 From: kauzeya at gmail.com (Jonathan Silk) Date: Sat, 22 Aug 15 19:48:17 +0200 Subject: [INDOLOGY] INDOLOGY Digest, Vol 31, Issue 22 In-Reply-To: <21DDC2C12EBC824AAAA10E610467CDCB05C22C87@MBX06.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: ummm, ... you know that this is a text extant only in Chinese, right? So, you want a version transliterated in pinyin? Or... On Sat, Aug 22, 2015 at 6:54 PM, Ionut Moise wrote: > > > > Does anyone have the access to a transliterated version of Abhidharma > Mah?vibh??a ??stra , please ? > > Many thanks indeed > > Ionut Moise > > http://www.theology.ox.ac.uk/people/research-students/ionut-moise.html > > -- J. Silk Leiden University Leiden University Institute for Area Studies, LIAS Matthias de Vrieshof 3, Room 0.05b 2311 BZ Leiden The Netherlands copies of my publications may be found at http://www.buddhismandsocialjustice.com/silk_publications.html -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dipak.d2004 at gmail.com Sun Aug 23 04:03:57 2015 From: dipak.d2004 at gmail.com (Dipak Bhattacharya) Date: Sun, 23 Aug 15 09:33:57 +0530 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Fwd: 12 & 13 WSC Publications In-Reply-To: Message-ID: ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Mlbd Date: Sun, Aug 23, 2015 at 3:27 AM Subject: 12 & 13 WSC Publications To: Dipak Bhattacharya Dear Sir/s We are publishing papers of the above conference held in Helsinki & Edinburgh long ago.80% books have been published in several volumes.The entire project will be completed in the middle of next year.Please circulate the news among all the Indologists.Anyone can order online,the details are available on the site. If you aren't on our mailing list,we will add your name.Please give your details.Should you or anyone interested to give their project for consideration of publishing can wright to me direct. Looking forward to hearing from you Sincerely Rajeev Jain Motilal Banarsidass Publishers 41 UA Bungalow Road, Jawahar Nagar Delhi-110007 (India) Tel: (011) 23851985 / 23858335 Fax: (011) 23850689 / 25797221 Email: mlbd at mlbd.com Website: www.mlbd.com *~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~ CELEBRATING 111 YEARS OF PUBLISHING (1903-2014) *~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~* -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From wujastyk at gmail.com Sun Aug 23 04:51:01 2015 From: wujastyk at gmail.com (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Sat, 22 Aug 15 22:51:01 -0600 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Fwd: 12 & 13 WSC Publications In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On 22 August 2015 at 22:03, Dipak Bhattacharya wrote: > ?Announcements from publishers promoting their publications are *strictly deprecated* on the INDOLOGY list. We all know and respect MLBD. There is no need to publicise their publications here, nor those of any other publishing house. If we open that door, the list will degenerate into mere advertising. Please, please respect the guidelines of the forum ! See paragraph 8. Dominik Wujastyk INDOLOGY committee. ? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dipak.d2004 at gmail.com Sun Aug 23 05:23:03 2015 From: dipak.d2004 at gmail.com (Dipak Bhattacharya) Date: Sun, 23 Aug 15 10:53:03 +0530 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Fwd: 12 & 13 WSC Publications In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I regret if rules have been broken. But no publicity was meant. The announcement came to another list where no objection was raised. I forwarded it to make colleagues aware. It is advised to delete it from the List. Best DB On Sun, Aug 23, 2015 at 10:21 AM, Dominik Wujastyk wrote: > > On 22 August 2015 at 22:03, Dipak Bhattacharya > wrote: > >> > > ?Announcements from publishers promoting their publications are *strictly > deprecated* on the INDOLOGY list. > > We all know and respect MLBD. There is no need to publicise their > publications here, nor those of any other publishing house. If we open > that door, the list will degenerate into mere advertising. > > Please, please respect the guidelines of the forum > ! See paragraph 8. > > Dominik Wujastyk > INDOLOGY committee. > > ? > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From emstern at verizon.net Sun Aug 23 17:12:35 2015 From: emstern at verizon.net (Elliot Stern) Date: Sun, 23 Aug 15 13:12:35 -0400 Subject: [INDOLOGY] svacchandatantram - date Message-ID: <86EFB577-FCBA-4FCB-B355-5953F2DA012B@verizon.net> I?m looking for any information or discussion about the dating of svacchandatantram. I am of course aware that any dating of this text is likely to be approximate. Background for the question: Vyoma?iva? gives a what appears to be his own definition of a moment (k?a?a?), and then quotes another text for definitions of larger time units. tath? hi param??o?c?varuddhanabhode?aty?gopalak?ita? k?la? k?a?a? | taddvaya? lava ityukto nime?a?va lavadvayam | k???h? nime??? pa?cada?a ceha prak?rtit?? || tri??atk???h? kal? prokt? kal?? tri??anmuh?rtaka? | ityeva? m?s?derapi lak?a?a? prasiddha? gr?hyam~| (vyomavat?, ed. Gaurinath Sastri, 1.128.9-14). This seems to derive from svacchandatantram: k?a?advaya? tu?irj?ey? taddvaya? tu lava? sm?ta? // SvaT_11.201 // lavadvaya? nime?astu j??tavyo ga?itakram?t / da?a pa?ca nime???ca k???h? caiva prak?rtit? // SvaT_11.202 // tri??atk???h?? kal? j?ey? muh?rtastri??adeva t?? / The Mysore ms. of vyomavat? improves the comparison to svacchandatantram: tath? hi param??o? sv?varuddhanabhode?aty?gopalak?i[81v8]ta? k?la? k?a?a? tadvaya? ca lava? prokto nime?a?ca lavadvaya? k???h? nime??? pa?cada?a ceha prak?rttit?? tri??atk???h? kal? prokt? kal?tri??anmuh?rttaka? ityeva? m?s?de[81v9]rapi lak?a?a? pur???aprasiddha? gr?hyamiti Also, if anyone knows a closer comparison for the verses Vyoma?iva? cites, please provide the reference. I am aware that the mah?bh?ratam and other texts have similar verses, but svacchandatantram so far appears to be the best candidate for source. Elliot M. Stern 552 South 48th Street Philadelphia, PA 19143-2029 United States of America telephone: 215-747-6204 mobile: 267-240-8418 emstern at verizon.net -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rpg at berkeley.edu Mon Aug 24 00:00:44 2015 From: rpg at berkeley.edu (Robert Goldman) Date: Sun, 23 Aug 15 17:00:44 -0700 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Fwd: Help on mystery painting of Ramayana (?) episode In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <63ADFAD6-1FAC-4985-B42B-6E6623DC73AC@berkeley.edu> Dear Colleagues, I am forwarding a message posted on RISA-L by Professor Lutgendorf of the University of Iowa concerning a painting that is expected to be part of an upcoming exhibit on the R?m?ya?a at the Asian Art Museum of San Francisco, an exhibit with which I too am involved. We would be most grateful to any one who can shed light on the scene depicted in the painting. Best. Dr. R. P. Goldman Catherine and William L. Magistretti Distinguished Professor in South and Southeast Asian Studies Department of South and Southeast Asian Studies MC # 2540 The University of California at Berkeley Berkeley, CA 94720-2540 Tel: 510-642-4089 Fax: 510-642-2409 > Begin forwarded message: > > From: "Lutgendorf, Philip A" > Subject: Help on mystery painting of Ramayana (?) episode > Date: August 23, 2015 at 4:50:25 PM PDT > To: RISA-L > Cc: Forrest McGill , Bob Goldman > > > Dear RISA colleagues, > > The painting below is presently owned by the Brooklyn Museum and attributed to the court of Mandi during the period of Raja Sidh Sen or Raja Shamser Sen. It shows a blue-clad warrior prince (who might be Rama, without bush skin, or Lakshmana) firing an arrow upward while (apparently) gazing at the reflection of his target in a shallow bowl of water ? perhaps a sort of skill-test, like that undertaken by Arjuna at Draupadi?s svayamvara. The figures to the right appear to be Vibhishana and Hanuman, with a female face looking out from behind the former; the figure to the left is clearly Ravana, complete with a donkey?s head as his tenth head (as is often found in paintings), who is bleeding from the stumps of three of his hands?as if the battle between him and Rama/Lakshmana had been interrupted by the reverse-shot episode. > > I know of no literary or oral source for this incident. Does anyone? The painting is to be used in an upcoming exhibit and any assistance in positively identifying its subject would be gratefully acknowledged. > > Best, > > Philip Lutgendorf > > > > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dominic.goodall at gmail.com Mon Aug 24 03:17:30 2015 From: dominic.goodall at gmail.com (Dominic Goodall) Date: Mon, 24 Aug 15 08:47:30 +0530 Subject: [INDOLOGY] svacchandatantram - date In-Reply-To: <86EFB577-FCBA-4FCB-B355-5953F2DA012B@verizon.net> Message-ID: <39051119-6C80-4815-BD50-2B293A0BC08A@gmail.com> Such passages are indeed many of them rather similar (cf. also Kira?atantra 59:3ff; Mata?gap?rame?varatantra, vidy?p?da 25:15ff; Suprabhed?gama, yogap?da 2:35ff). But it seems to me that just a little closer to your passage (or at least equally close) may be the corresponding lines of the Guhyas?tra of the Ni?v?satattvasa?hit?, a text which is the source of more than a thousand verses of the Svacchandatantra. As elsewhere, the rather irregular Sanskrit of the Ni?v?sa has been smartened up to become the Kashmirian version of the Svacchandatantra upon which K?emar?ja comments (and which is printed in the KSTS edition). It would be rather natural for it to be brushed up in slightly different ways when quoted in some other ??stric text. I haven?t gone back to check our transcription, but this is roughly how it appears in the ninth-century Nepalese manuscript: m?nu??k?inime?asya caturbh?ga[s] tu?i[?] sm?ta? 7:22 tu?idvaya? lavo j?eya? nime?an tu lavadvayam k???h? c?pi hi vij?ey? nime?? da?a pa?ca ca 7:23 tri??atk???h? kal? j?ey? muh?[r]tta? tais tu t???abhi? muh?rt?s tu punas tri??a(d aho)r?tran tu m?nu?am 7:24 t???a? c?pi ahor?trair mm?sam paitryan tu r?tryaham Nonetheless, given the relatively wide spread, in scholarly circles of the Sanskritic world, of the Svacchandatantra (the Ni?v?sa, by contrast, appears never to have received commentary, except in Cambodia), it is not impossible that Vyoma?iva?s quotation should in fact have been drawn from the Svacchandatantra in an earlier state of text: it would be worth checking one of the old Nepalese palm-leaf manuscripts of the Svacchanda to see how those lines are transmitted there. As for the date of the Guhyas?tra, only informed guesses are possible. Some discussion is to be found in the introduction to the first volume of our edition of the Ni?v?sa published from Pondicherry/Hamburg. Dominic Goodall ?cole fran?aise d?Extr?me-Orient Pondich?ry > On 23-Aug-2015, at 10:42 pm, Elliot Stern wrote: > > I?m looking for any information or discussion about the dating of svacchandatantram. I am of course aware that any dating of this text is likely to be approximate. > > Background for the question: Vyoma?iva? gives a what appears to be his own definition of a moment (k?a?a?), and then quotes another text for definitions of larger time units. > > tath? hi param??o?c?varuddhanabhode?aty?gopalak?ita? k?la? k?a?a? | > > taddvaya? lava ityukto nime?a?va lavadvayam | > k???h? nime??? pa?cada?a ceha prak?rtit?? || > tri??atk???h? kal? prokt? kal?? tri??anmuh?rtaka? | > > ityeva? m?s?derapi lak?a?a? prasiddha? gr?hyam~| (vyomavat?, ed. Gaurinath Sastri, 1.128.9-14). > > > This seems to derive from svacchandatantram: > > k?a?advaya? tu?irj?ey? taddvaya? tu lava? sm?ta? // SvaT_11.201 // > lavadvaya? nime?astu j??tavyo ga?itakram?t / > da?a pa?ca nime???ca k???h? caiva prak?rtit? // SvaT_11.202 // > tri??atk???h?? kal? j?ey? muh?rtastri??adeva t?? / > > The Mysore ms. of vyomavat? improves the comparison to svacchandatantram: > > tath? hi param??o? sv?varuddhanabhode?aty?gopalak?i[81v8]ta? k?la? k?a?a? tadvaya? ca lava? prokto nime?a?ca lavadvaya? k???h? nime??? pa?cada?a ceha prak?rttit?? tri??atk???h? kal? prokt? kal?tri??anmuh?rttaka? ityeva? m?s?de[81v9]rapi lak?a?a? pur???aprasiddha? gr?hyamiti > > Also, if anyone knows a closer comparison for the verses Vyoma?iva? cites, please provide the reference. I am aware that the mah?bh?ratam and other texts have similar verses, but svacchandatantram so far appears to be the best candidate for source. > > Elliot M. Stern > 552 South 48th Street > Philadelphia, PA 19143-2029 > United States of America > telephone: 215-747-6204 > mobile: 267-240-8418 > emstern at verizon.net > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From vjroebuck at btinternet.com Mon Aug 24 06:59:41 2015 From: vjroebuck at btinternet.com (Valerie Roebuck) Date: Mon, 24 Aug 15 07:59:41 +0100 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Fwd: Help on mystery painting of Ramayana (?) episode In-Reply-To: <63ADFAD6-1FAC-4985-B42B-6E6623DC73AC@berkeley.edu> Message-ID: <7CCD3760-86F6-4287-BA31-CD8F11C912BE@btinternet.com> The picture is missing from the email as I received it. Valerie J Roebuck Manchester, UK > On 24 Aug 2015, at 01:00, Robert Goldman wrote: > > Dear Colleagues, > > I am forwarding a message posted on RISA-L by Professor Lutgendorf of the University of Iowa concerning a painting that is expected to be part of an upcoming exhibit on the R?m?ya?a at the Asian Art Museum of San Francisco, an exhibit with which I too am involved. We would be most grateful to any one who can shed light on the scene depicted in the painting. > > Best. > Dr. R. P. Goldman > Catherine and William L. Magistretti Distinguished Professor in South and Southeast Asian Studies > Department of South and Southeast Asian Studies MC # 2540 > The University of California at Berkeley > Berkeley, CA 94720-2540 > Tel: 510-642-4089 > Fax: 510-642-2409 > > > >> Begin forwarded message: >> >> From: "Lutgendorf, Philip A" > >> Subject: Help on mystery painting of Ramayana (?) episode >> Date: August 23, 2015 at 4:50:25 PM PDT >> To: RISA-L > >> Cc: Forrest McGill >, Bob Goldman > >> >> >> Dear RISA colleagues, >> >> The painting below is presently owned by the Brooklyn Museum and attributed to the court of Mandi during the period of Raja Sidh Sen or Raja Shamser Sen. It shows a blue-clad warrior prince (who might be Rama, without bush skin, or Lakshmana) firing an arrow upward while (apparently) gazing at the reflection of his target in a shallow bowl of water ? perhaps a sort of skill-test, like that undertaken by Arjuna at Draupadi?s svayamvara. The figures to the right appear to be Vibhishana and Hanuman, with a female face looking out from behind the former; the figure to the left is clearly Ravana, complete with a donkey?s head as his tenth head (as is often found in paintings), who is bleeding from the stumps of three of his hands?as if the battle between him and Rama/Lakshmana had been interrupted by the reverse-shot episode. >> >> I know of no literary or oral source for this incident. Does anyone? The painting is to be used in an upcoming exhibit and any assistance in positively identifying its subject would be gratefully acknowledged. >> >> Best, >> >> Philip Lutgendorf -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ssandahl at sympatico.ca Mon Aug 24 09:04:20 2015 From: ssandahl at sympatico.ca (Stella Sandahl) Date: Mon, 24 Aug 15 05:04:20 -0400 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Fwd: Help on mystery painting of Ramayana (?) episode In-Reply-To: <7CCD3760-86F6-4287-BA31-CD8F11C912BE@btinternet.com> Message-ID: I didn't get the pictures either, just two empty spaces. Stella On Aug 24, 2015, at 2:59 AM, Valerie Roebuck wrote: > The picture is missing from the email as I received it. > > Valerie J Roebuck > Manchester, UK > >> On 24 Aug 2015, at 01:00, Robert Goldman wrote: >> >> Dear Colleagues, >> >> I am forwarding a message posted on RISA-L by Professor Lutgendorf of the University of Iowa concerning a painting that is expected to be part of an upcoming exhibit on the R?m?ya?a at the Asian Art Museum of San Francisco, an exhibit with which I too am involved. We would be most grateful to any one who can shed light on the scene depicted in the painting. >> >> Best. >> Dr. R. P. Goldman >> Catherine and William L. Magistretti Distinguished Professor in South and Southeast Asian Studies >> Department of South and Southeast Asian Studies MC # 2540 >> The University of California at Berkeley >> Berkeley, CA 94720-2540 >> Tel: 510-642-4089 >> Fax: 510-642-2409 >> >> >> >>> Begin forwarded message: >>> >>> From: "Lutgendorf, Philip A" >>> Subject: Help on mystery painting of Ramayana (?) episode >>> Date: August 23, 2015 at 4:50:25 PM PDT >>> To: RISA-L >>> Cc: Forrest McGill , Bob Goldman >>> >>> >>> Dear RISA colleagues, >>> >>> The painting below is presently owned by the Brooklyn Museum and attributed to the court of Mandi during the period of Raja Sidh Sen or Raja Shamser Sen. It shows a blue-clad warrior prince (who might be Rama, without bush skin, or Lakshmana) firing an arrow upward while (apparently) gazing at the reflection of his target in a shallow bowl of water ? perhaps a sort of skill-test, like that undertaken by Arjuna at Draupadi?s svayamvara. The figures to the right appear to be Vibhishana and Hanuman, with a female face looking out from behind the former; the figure to the left is clearly Ravana, complete with a donkey?s head as his tenth head (as is often found in paintings), who is bleeding from the stumps of three of his hands?as if the battle between him and Rama/Lakshmana had been interrupted by the reverse-shot episode. >>> >>> I know of no literary or oral source for this incident. Does anyone? The painting is to be used in an upcoming exhibit and any assistance in positively identifying its subject would be gratefully acknowledged. >>> >>> Best, >>> >>> Philip Lutgendorf > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From karp at uw.edu.pl Mon Aug 24 09:10:20 2015 From: karp at uw.edu.pl (Artur Karp) Date: Mon, 24 Aug 15 11:10:20 +0200 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Fwd: Help on mystery painting of Ramayana (?) episode In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Same here, Artur 2015-08-24 11:04 GMT+02:00 Stella Sandahl : > I didn't get the pictures either, just two empty spaces. > Stella > > > > > On Aug 24, 2015, at 2:59 AM, Valerie Roebuck > wrote: > > The picture is missing from the email as I received it. > > Valerie J Roebuck > Manchester, UK > > On 24 Aug 2015, at 01:00, Robert Goldman wrote: > > Dear Colleagues, > > I am forwarding a message posted on RISA-L by Professor Lutgendorf of the > University of Iowa concerning a painting that is expected to be part of an > upcoming exhibit on the R?m?ya?a at the Asian Art Museum of San Francisco, > an exhibit with which I too am involved. We would be most grateful to any > one who can shed light on the scene depicted in the painting. > > Best. > Dr. R. P. Goldman > Catherine and William L. Magistretti Distinguished Professor in South and > Southeast Asian Studies > Department of South and Southeast Asian Studies MC # 2540 > The University of California at Berkeley > Berkeley, CA 94720-2540 > Tel: 510-642-4089 > Fax: 510-642-2409 > > > > Begin forwarded message: > > *From: *"Lutgendorf, Philip A" > *Subject: **Help on mystery painting of Ramayana (?) episode* > *Date: *August 23, 2015 at 4:50:25 PM PDT > *To: *RISA-L > *Cc: *Forrest McGill , Bob Goldman < > rpg at calmail.berkeley.edu> > > > Dear RISA colleagues, > > The painting below is presently owned by the Brooklyn Museum and > attributed to the court of Mandi during the period of Raja Sidh Sen or > Raja Shamser Sen. It shows a blue-clad warrior prince (who might be Rama, > without bush skin, or Lakshmana) firing an arrow upward while (apparently) > gazing at the reflection of his target in a shallow bowl of water ? perhaps > a sort of skill-test, like that undertaken by Arjuna at Draupadi?s > svayamvara. The figures to the right appear to be Vibhishana and Hanuman, > with a female face looking out from behind the former; the figure to the > left is clearly Ravana, complete with a donkey?s head as his tenth head (as > is often found in paintings), who is bleeding from the stumps of three of > his hands?as if the battle between him and Rama/Lakshmana had been > interrupted by the reverse-shot episode. > > I know of no literary or oral source for this incident. Does anyone? The > painting is to be used in an upcoming exhibit and any assistance in > positively identifying its subject would be gratefully acknowledged. > > Best, > > Philip Lutgendorf > > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing > committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or > unsubscribe) > > > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing > committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or > unsubscribe) > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From christophe.vielle at uclouvain.be Mon Aug 24 11:09:10 2015 From: christophe.vielle at uclouvain.be (Christophe Vielle) Date: Mon, 24 Aug 15 13:09:10 +0200 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Setuyatranuvarnana by T. Ganapati Sastri In-Reply-To: Message-ID: The work is also briefly presented in - "T. Ga?apati Sastri: The Discover" by N.P. Unni (in Highways and Byways in Sanskrit Literature, Delhi: New Bharatya Book Corporation, 2012, vol. 1, pp. 120-125, with references to a notice by Winternitz 1934, and an obituary by V. Raghavan in the Journal of Kerala University Manuscripts Library vol. 2 [1949], both items I have not seen; cf. previously by N.P. Unni, Kau?alya Artha??stra (A study), Delhi: Baharatiya Vidya Prakashan, 1983, pp. 32-36 = "general introduction", ibid. introducing the vol. 1 of the 3 vol. reprint of the TSS ed. of the Artha??stra [with the commentary of T. Ga?apati ??str?], same publisher 1984 [and 1990]); - "Life and works of T. Ganapati Sastri" by T. Devarajan (in Id. ed. Dramas of Bhasa: Seminar papers and centenary address, University of Kerala, 2005, pp. 9-12); - S. Venkitasubramonia Iyer, Kerala Sanskrit Literature: A Bibliography, University of Kerala, 1976, pp. 30-31, 486 (with references to KSC and KSSC); - K. Kunjunni Raja (CKSL, 1958/1980, p. 257); - Obituary by K. G. Sankar in The Indian Historical Quarterly 2, 1926, pp. 222-224 http://www.new1.dli.ernet.in/scripts/FullindexDefault.htm?path1=/data2/upload/0055/434&first=1&last=934&barcode=4990010201282 - Obituary by Sylvain L?vi in Journal Asiatique 208, pp. 374-381 http://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/bpt6k933084/f378.image.r=Journal%20asiatique%20208.langFR (- nothing in the obituary by V.R.R. Dikshitar in A.B.O.R.I. 8/3, 1926-27, pp. 322-325 http://www.jstor.org/stable/41694776 ) But nowhere is given a reference to an edition of the work. However, I suspect that it was issued in some local/Kerala publishing house or journal. As it must have been the case of his poem Cakravartin?gu?ama?im?l? (in praise of Queen Victoria) and other original Sanskrit compositions. The NCC should be checked s.v. At the least his manual of Indian culture entitled Bh?rat?nuvar?anam, prefaced (in English) by Sylvain L?vi (who was in epistolary contact with him and at the request of whom the work was written) was issued in 1905 (2nd and 3rd ed. Trivandrum : Sudharma Print House, 1925 and 1940; re-issued by V. Subrahmanyan, Hyderabad: Sanskrit Academy, 2010, Sanskrit Academy Series (ed. T. Keshava Narayana) no. 83). Best wishes, Christophe Vielle Le 20 ao?t 2015 ? 17:04, Krishnaprasad G a ?crit : > > Namaste > > Dear all > > I am searching for details of the work Setuyatranuvarnana by T Ganapaty Shastri. > > In the book History of Sanskrit Literature by Krsnamacariar mentions that the MS of the work is in his home(even I tried contacting his grandchildren but no success), but in the book Kaumudikatha Kallolini the name of the work is quoted which leads to suspect that the work would have printed after 1930s. > > Please if any one knows the details of the edition of the book let me know. > > Yours sincerely > Krishnaprasad > PhD candidate > Karnataka Samskrita University > Bengaluru - INDIA > > Thanks > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) ??????????????????? Christophe Vielle Louvain-la-Neuve -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dominic.goodall at gmail.com Mon Aug 24 11:35:51 2015 From: dominic.goodall at gmail.com (Dominic Goodall) Date: Mon, 24 Aug 15 17:05:51 +0530 Subject: =?utf-8?Q?[INDOLOGY]_First-_*and*_second-syllable_rhyme_in_Tamil_and_in_the_Bh=C4=81gavatapur=C4=81=E1=B9=87a?= In-Reply-To: <55C547D0.5010206@univ-paris-diderot.fr> Message-ID: <3D84EEDF-034B-4E79-A4CD-F9F9B1B5B17C@gmail.com> After launching the thread on second-syllable rhyme at the end of last month, I disappeared on a field-trip and so I am late in hereby acknowledging the very interesting discussion that followed, from which I learnt a great deal. As a result, by the way, I am now more convinced even than before that the passage of the Bh?gavatapur??a I referred to is likely to have been produced by someone who was exposed to Tamil poetry. For I realise now that I should have referred not just to the second-syllable consonant-rhyming (etukai) that is very commonly used for interline-linking inTamil verse, but also to the echoing of the consonant of the first syllable (m??ai) that is similarly very common for intra-line-linking. (Of course there are lots of exceptions and variations, but the coordination of these two sorts of alliteration in this way is found occasionally in early Tamil works and it becomes increasingly widespread through time.) Here is that passage again, this time with the etukai highlighted with italics and the m??ai-echoes within each p?da marked in bold face. BhP_10.31.001/1 jayati te 'dhika? janman? vraja? ?rayata indir? ?a?vad atra hi BhP_10.31.001/3 dayita d??yat?? dik?u t?vak?s tvayi dh?t?savas tv?? vicinvate BhP_10.31.002/1 ?aradud??aye s?dhuj?tasatsarasijodara?r?mu?? d??? BhP_10.31.002/3 suratan?tha te '?ulkad?sik? varada nighnato neha ki? vadha? BhP_10.31.003/1 vi?ajal?pyay?d vy?lar?k?as?d var?am?rut?d vaidyut?nal?t BhP_10.31.003/3 v??amay?tmaj?d vi?vato bhay?d ??abha te vaya? rak?it? muhu? BhP_10.31.004/1 na khalu gop?k?nandano bhav?n akhiladehin?m antar?tmad?k BhP_10.31.004/3 vikhanas?rthito vi?vaguptaye sakha udeyiv?n s?tvat?? kule And here, chosen at random, is a verse from the T?v?ram illustrating the same strategies of interline and intraline linking by alliteration. ka??aic ce?ca?aik k?y katir ve?ti?ka? pa??ip p?mpu u?a? vaitta par?para? ne??ik ka? u?ai n?lakku?i ara? cu??it t?var to?um ka?al c?tiy? 5.72.9 Dominic Goodall ?cole fran?aise d'Extr?me-Orient, Pondich?ry > On 08-Aug-2015, at 5:35 am, Jean-Luc Chevillard wrote: > > Yes, > > this feature which you mention ("the initial vowels must agree in quantity") is an important feature, > and, interestingly, it must have been TOO OBVIOUS TO STATE, > from the point of view of the Tolk?ppiyam, > because the first Tolk?ppiyam s?tra explaining etukai > is the second element in a pair of s?tras, > which state (elliptically) > > TP397i > a?ito?un talaiye?ut toppatu m??ai > (= a?ito?um talai e?uttu oppatu m??ai). > > "That in which the head-/e?uttu/ in every /a?i/ is equal is /m??ai/." > > TP398i > a?to?it to??i ?etukai y?kum > (=a?tu o?ittu o??i? etukai ?kum). > > "If, that being omitted, there is identity, it will be /etukai/." > > These s?tras have been earlier preceded by a s?tra which explains the larger category of /to?ai/ and which states > > TP393i > m??ai yetukai mura?? yiyaipe?a > n??e?i marapi?a to?aivakai ye?pa. > (m??ai etukai mura?? iyaipu e?a > n?l ne?i marapi?a to?ai vakai e?pa.) > > "They say that the subdivisions of traditionally four-pathed /to?ai/ are: (1) m??ai, (2) etukai, (3) mura? "contrast" and (4) iyaipu > > > The third element, mura?, and the fourth element, iyaipu, are characterized in: > > TP400i > mo?iyi?um poru?i?u mura?uta? mura??. > (= mo?iyi?um poru?i?um mura?utal mura??.) > > "The contrasting either in word or in meaning is /mura?/." > > > TP401i > i?uv? yoppi?a? tiyaipe?a mo?ipa. > (= i?uv?y oppi? a?tu iyaipu e?a mo?ipa.) > > They call /iyaipu/ that in which final is identical; > > -- Jean-Luc Chevillard (Pondicherry) > > > > "https://univ-paris-diderot.academia.edu/JeanLucChevillard" > > "https://plus.google.com/u/0/113653379205101980081/posts/p/pub" > > "https://twitter.com/JLC1956" > > > > On 08/08/2015 03:04, Kevin M. Ryan wrote: >> (2) I don't know if anyone has previously noted this connection, but the >> phonological peculiarities of SSR bear an uncanny resemblance to another >> linguistic phenomenon that can be reconstructed securely (e.g. >> Krishnamurti 2003: 487) to Proto-South Dravidian and perhaps even >> further back, namely, echo reduplication of the type puli-kili [gili] >> "tigers and such". Not only does the span of correspondence in such >> doublets begin with the second syllable (or, more properly, with the >> consonant immediately following the first vowel; see below), but >> tellingly, just as in SSR, the initial vowels must agree in quantity, >> while being free to disagree in quality (e.g. p?mpu-k?mpu "snakes and >> such"; NB. *p?mpu-kimpu is out even though both initial syllables are >> heavy; thus, the restriction is about vowel length per se and not >> syllable weight, at least not in the usual metrical sense.) As such, >> such doublets form rhyming pairs, and I would find it surprising if the >> two systems, both with the same peculiar treatment of vowel length, >> arose independently. > > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From christophe.vielle at uclouvain.be Mon Aug 24 16:38:44 2015 From: christophe.vielle at uclouvain.be (Christophe Vielle) Date: Mon, 24 Aug 15 18:38:44 +0200 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Setuyatranuvarnana by T. Ganapati Sastri In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3C833379-6343-411D-89CE-62F3B4BB96A7@uclouvain.be> According to the obituary of K. G. ?ankar in the JRAS of 1926 (Issue 3, July 1926, pp. 584-87; http://www.jstor.org/stable/25221050 ), the Setuy?tr?nuvar?anam is to be counted "among his (...) early works, which all remain unpublished" (like his Sanskrit translation of The Merchant of Venice). The Harvard exemplar (ex libris Ch. R. Lanman) of the 1st ed. of his Bh?rat?nuvar?anam (Trivandrum: Printers' Jobbing Press, 1905) is available at: https://archive.org/details/Bharatanuvarnanam_-_T_Ganapati_Sastri and http://sanskritdocuments.org/scannedbooks/forencoding/Bharatanuvarnanam-TGSastri1905.pdf Le 24 ao?t 2015 ? 13:09, Christophe Vielle a ?crit : > The work is also briefly presented in > - "T. Ga?apati Sastri: The Discover" by N.P. Unni (in Highways and Byways in Sanskrit Literature, Delhi: New Bharatya Book Corporation, 2012, vol. 1, pp. 120-125, with references to a notice by Winternitz 1934, and an obituary by V. Raghavan in the Journal of Kerala University Manuscripts Library vol. 2 [1949], both items I have not seen; cf. previously by N.P. Unni, Kau?alya Artha??stra (A study), Delhi: Baharatiya Vidya Prakashan, 1983, pp. 32-36 = "general introduction", ibid. introducing the vol. 1 of the 3 vol. reprint of the TSS ed. of the Artha??stra [with the commentary of T. Ga?apati ??str?], same publisher 1984 [and 1990]); > - "Life and works of T. Ganapati Sastri" by T. Devarajan (in Id. ed. Dramas of Bhasa: Seminar papers and centenary address, University of Kerala, 2005, pp. 9-12); > - S. Venkitasubramonia Iyer, Kerala Sanskrit Literature: A Bibliography, University of Kerala, 1976, pp. 30-31, 486 (with references to KSC and KSSC); > - K. Kunjunni Raja (CKSL, 1958/1980, p. 257); > - Obituary by K. G. Sankar in The Indian Historical Quarterly 2, 1926, pp. 222-224 > http://www.new1.dli.ernet.in/scripts/FullindexDefault.htm?path1=/data2/upload/0055/434&first=1&last=934&barcode=4990010201282 > - Obituary by Sylvain L?vi in Journal Asiatique 208, pp. 374-381 > http://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/bpt6k933084/f378.image.r=Journal%20asiatique%20208.langFR > (- nothing in the obituary by V.R.R. Dikshitar in A.B.O.R.I. 8/3, 1926-27, pp. 322-325 > http://www.jstor.org/stable/41694776 ) > > But nowhere is given a reference to an edition of the work. > However, I suspect that it was issued in some local/Kerala publishing house or journal. As it must have been the case of his poem Cakravartin?gu?ama?im?l? (in praise of Queen Victoria) and other original Sanskrit compositions. The NCC should be checked s.v. > At the least his manual of Indian culture entitled Bh?rat?nuvar?anam, prefaced (in English) by Sylvain L?vi (who was in epistolary contact with him and at the request of whom the work was written) was issued in 1905 (2nd and 3rd ed. Trivandrum : Sudharma Print House, 1925 and 1940; re-issued by V. Subrahmanyan, Hyderabad: Sanskrit Academy, 2010, Sanskrit Academy Series (ed. T. Keshava Narayana) no. 83). > > Best wishes, > Christophe Vielle > > > > > > > Le 20 ao?t 2015 ? 17:04, Krishnaprasad G a ?crit : > >> >> Namaste >> >> Dear all >> >> I am searching for details of the work Setuyatranuvarnana by T Ganapaty Shastri. >> >> In the book History of Sanskrit Literature by Krsnamacariar mentions that the MS of the work is in his home(even I tried contacting his grandchildren but no success), but in the book Kaumudikatha Kallolini the name of the work is quoted which leads to suspect that the work would have printed after 1930s. >> >> Please if any one knows the details of the edition of the book let me know. >> >> Yours sincerely >> Krishnaprasad >> PhD candidate >> Karnataka Samskrita University >> Bengaluru - INDIA >> >> Thanks >> _______________________________________________ >> INDOLOGY mailing list >> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info >> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) >> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) > > ??????????????????? > Christophe Vielle > Louvain-la-Neuve > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) ??????????????????? Christophe Vielle Louvain-la-Neuve -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mkapstei at uchicago.edu Mon Aug 24 17:26:26 2015 From: mkapstei at uchicago.edu (Matthew Kapstein) Date: Mon, 24 Aug 15 17:26:26 +0000 Subject: [INDOLOGY] article search Message-ID: <82C3E42590D939418C74DD76B97DDED047AEEDD0@xm-mbx-04-prod.ad.uchicago.edu> Dear friends, I'd be grateful to receive a pdf of La Vall?e Poussin, Louis de (ed.), 1932?33. ?Le petit traite de Vasubandhu-Nagarjuna sur les trois natures,? Melanges chinois et bouddhiques . In addition, anything useful bearing on the presumed authenticity of the ascription of this to Vasubandhu would be most welcome (I do have the facsimile edition of Nepalese mss. already). with thanks in advance, Matthew Matthew Kapstein Directeur d'?tudes, Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes Numata Visiting Professor of Buddhist Studies, The University of Chicago ________________________________ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mkapstei at uchicago.edu Mon Aug 24 18:38:08 2015 From: mkapstei at uchicago.edu (Matthew Kapstein) Date: Mon, 24 Aug 15 18:38:08 +0000 Subject: [INDOLOGY] article search In-Reply-To: <82C3E42590D939418C74DD76B97DDED047AEEDD0@xm-mbx-04-prod.ad.uchicago.edu> Message-ID: <82C3E42590D939418C74DD76B97DDED047AEEE1E@xm-mbx-04-prod.ad.uchicago.edu> Thank you Vincent, David, Jonathan for your near instantaneous responses! Matthew Kapstein Directeur d'?tudes, Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes Numata Visiting Professor of Buddhist Studies, The University of Chicago ________________________________ ________________________________ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rpg at berkeley.edu Mon Aug 24 19:38:27 2015 From: rpg at berkeley.edu (Robert Goldman) Date: Mon, 24 Aug 15 12:38:27 -0700 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Fwd: Help on mystery painting of Ramayana (?) episode Message-ID: <9375AEEC-D906-4BE6-B7DA-01E60C9ECAA3@berkeley.edu> Dear Colleagues, Apparently the image did not come through with my original mailing. Thanks to those of you who have alerted me to this and to those who have offered valuable help on the basis of the verbal description. I am attaching the image again, this time in a smaller format in the hopes that you will be able to see it. Thanks again for you help and advice. Best. Dr. R. P. Goldman Catherine and William L. Magistretti Distinguished Professor in South and Southeast Asian Studies Department of South and Southeast Asian Studies MC # 2540 The University of California at Berkeley Berkeley, CA 94720-2540 Tel: 510-642-4089 Fax: 510-642-2409 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: PuzzlingPainting.jpeg Type: image/jpeg Size: 101141 bytes Desc: not available URL: From andrew.ollett at gmail.com Mon Aug 24 23:15:09 2015 From: andrew.ollett at gmail.com (Andrew Ollett) Date: Mon, 24 Aug 15 16:15:09 -0700 Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_[INDOLOGY]=09dates_of_commentaries_on_v=E1=B9=9Bttaratn=C4=81kara?= In-Reply-To: <55D75015.3010105@mi.parisdescartes.fr> Message-ID: Dear Fran?ois, According to H.D. Velankar's *Jayad?man* (Bombay 1949), pp. 41?43, and his later article on Trivikrama in JASB 33 (1958) 25?68, the dates are as follows: - Trivikrama: latter half of the 11th c. CE (he was a student of Vardham?na, the preceptor of King Kar?a of Ahnilvad Patan, r. 1064?1094) - Sulha?a: sa?. 1246/1190 CE (he refers to the Param?ra king Vindhyavarman in his examples) - Somacandra: sa?. 1329/1271 CE - R?macandra: beginning of the 16th c. CE. Andrew On Fri, Aug 21, 2015 at 9:21 AM, Fran?ois Patte < francois.patte at mi.parisdescartes.fr> wrote: > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > Bonjour, > > I recently found a pdf edition of Kedara's v?ttaratn?kara with four > commentaries at Gretil-e-library. > > In this edition, dates of commentaries are not given and I am > wondering if someone here could tell me them. > > These commentaries are: > > t?tparya??k? by Trivikrama > sukavih?day?nandin? by Sulhana > chandov?tti? by Somacandra? > pa?cik? by R?macandrakavi > > I found the date for the first one in a van Nooten article (around > 10th century), but nothing for the others. > > Thank you > - -- > Fran?ois Patte > UFR de math?matiques et informatique > Laboratoire CNRS MAP5, UMR 8145 > Universit? Paris Descartes > 45, rue des Saints P?res > F-75270 Paris Cedex 06 > T?l. +33 (0)1 8394 5849 > http://www.math-info.univ-paris5.fr/~patte > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- > Version: GnuPG v2 > > iEYEARECAAYFAlXXUBQACgkQdE6C2dhV2JU9MgCgssCEUcSzIzIqp2lyG/cykoh1 > +fgAn0R/h28qV6TG3T9/Vsf6yuZ079CA > =2fCs > -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing > committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or > unsubscribe) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From nagarajpaturi at gmail.com Tue Aug 25 03:13:30 2015 From: nagarajpaturi at gmail.com (Nagaraj Paturi) Date: Tue, 25 Aug 15 08:43:30 +0530 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Help on mystery painting of Ramayana (?) episode Message-ID: 1. Through skin colour, the artist is showing the shooting person to be Lakshmana and one of the onlookers in dark complexion as Rama. 2. The female character can be Sita. 3. This could be a version of Trijata's dream, an episode narrated in Ranganatha Ramayana in Telugu. But the details of dream in Ranganatha Ramayana do not have the reverse shot by Lakshmana. Nevertheless it has Sita being an onlooker to the attack on Ravana by Rama's team. -Nagaraj -- Prof.Nagaraj Paturi -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From nmisra at gmail.com Tue Aug 25 04:48:01 2015 From: nmisra at gmail.com (Nityanand Misra) Date: Tue, 25 Aug 15 10:18:01 +0530 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Fwd: Help on mystery painting of Ramayana (?) episode In-Reply-To: <9375AEEC-D906-4BE6-B7DA-01E60C9ECAA3@berkeley.edu> Message-ID: The painting refers to the Bh?la folk narrative Rom-Sitmani Varata in which R?va?a?s life is in a bumblebee fixed in the chariot of S?rya. , R?va?a can be killed only if the bumblebee is dropped by an arrow into a pan of boiling oil when its reflection falls in the oil at noon. Lak?ma?a does this and R?va?a is killed. Sources: 1) Jaydipsinh Dodiya (2001). Critical Perspectives on the R?m?ya?a. New Delhi: Sarup & Sons. ISBN 9788176252447. p. 102: Not Rama, but Laxma?a kills R?va? here by his valour and intelligence. We find here another unusual motif of R?va?vadha. Laxma?a gets hold of Mandodari?s clothes by tempting the washerman with jewells. He proceeds to serve lunch to R?va? disguised Mandodari and cleverly finds out the secret of his death. R?va??s soul is packed safely in a wasp which resides up in the chariot of the sun. Now if a person who must be a celibate for past 12 years, stands from the early morning on a pan of boiling oil and sharp at noon when the sun comes on head and the wasp is re?ected below in the oil, if he kills the wasp with a single arrow and if it falls dead in the oil and burns, then and then only, R?va? could die. Now, who but Laxma?a fulfils all these necessary quali?cations? Sothe thing is done. R?va??s death here is not a hero's death fighting in a war, but a ritualistic death. 2) Manoja Kum?ra Mi?ra (2001). Maukhika Mah?k?vya. New Delhi: D K Printworld Private Limited. ISBN 9788124601761. p. 30: ??????? ??????? ?? ??????? ???? ???? ?? ?????? ?? ????? ??? ???? ???? ???? ?? ????? (???) ???????? ????? ????? ?? ?? ??? ???????? ????? ??? ??? ??? ??????? ?? ???? ???? ?? ?????? ?? ?????????? ???? ???? ?? ?? ????? ??? ?? ????? ?? ????? ??? ?? ???? ??? ?????? ???????? ?? ??? ????? ?? ?????????? ??? ??? ???? ?? ???? ?? ??? ?? ????? ???? ????? ?? ??? ??? ??? ?????? ?? ?? ???? ?? ?????? ?? ???? ?? ?? ?????? ?? ?? ?????? ?? ??? ?? ???? ??? ?? ???? ????? ?? ??????? ???? ?????? ?? ????? ???? ????? ???? ???? ???? ???? ????? ??? ???? ????? ?? ??? ???? ???? ???? Sent from my iPad > On 25 Aug, 2015, at 1:08 am, Robert Goldman wrote: > > Dear Colleagues, > > Apparently the image did not come through with my original mailing. Thanks to those of you who have alerted me to this and to those who have offered valuable help on the basis of the verbal description. I am attaching the image again, this time in a smaller format in the hopes that you will be able to see it. Thanks again for you help and advice. > > Best. > > > > > > Dr. R. P. Goldman > Catherine and William L. Magistretti Distinguished Professor in South and Southeast Asian Studies > Department of South and Southeast Asian Studies MC # 2540 > The University of California at Berkeley > Berkeley, CA 94720-2540 > Tel: 510-642-4089 > Fax: 510-642-2409 > > > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: PuzzlingPainting.jpeg Type: image/jpeg Size: 101141 bytes Desc: not available URL: From nagarajpaturi at gmail.com Tue Aug 25 07:15:43 2015 From: nagarajpaturi at gmail.com (Nagaraj Paturi) Date: Tue, 25 Aug 15 12:45:43 +0530 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Help on mystery painting of Ramayana (?) episode Message-ID: Thanks Nityananandji, for this fascinating folk-Ramayana-narrative. The picture suits this narrative very well. Regards, Nagaraj -- Prof.Nagaraj Paturi -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Naomi.Appleton at ed.ac.uk Tue Aug 25 08:19:08 2015 From: Naomi.Appleton at ed.ac.uk (APPLETON Naomi) Date: Tue, 25 Aug 15 08:19:08 +0000 Subject: [INDOLOGY] twenty-four buddhas/jinas - artistic evidence? Message-ID: <41EFB2F6-5F05-4EC2-8CA9-171B21A81893@ed.ac.uk> Dear colleagues, I am exploring the parallel notions of twenty-four past buddhas and twenty-four past jinas/tirthankaras. I have all the textual references and scholarly materials, as far as I am aware, but I lack expertise in the artistic sources. Does anybody know when or where we find the first appearance of twenty-four buddhas or jinas together? (I am aware of evidence for smaller numbers of past teachers in art from the Ashokan period onwards, but I am particularly interested in when the number 24 makes an appearance.) In addition, is the number 24 at all significant in Vaisnava traditions? I am aware of the list of 24 avat?ras in the Sikh Dasam Granth. Many thanks as always for your help. All the best, Naomi -------------------------------- Dr Naomi Appleton Senior Lecturer, Asian Religions School of Divinity, University of Edinburgh naomi.appleton at ed.ac.uk http://naomiappleton.wordpress.com http://storyofstoryinsouthasia.wordpress.com Twitter: @JatakaStories The University of Edinburgh is a charitable body, registered in Scotland, with registration number SC005336. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From francois.patte at mi.parisdescartes.fr Tue Aug 25 08:42:17 2015 From: francois.patte at mi.parisdescartes.fr (=?utf-8?Q?Fran=C3=A7ois_Patte?=) Date: Tue, 25 Aug 15 10:42:17 +0200 Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_[INDOLOGY]_dates_of_commentaries_on_v=E1=B9=9Bttaratn=C4=81kara?= In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <55DC2A69.5080602@mi.parisdescartes.fr> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Le 25/08/2015 01:15, Andrew Ollett a ?crit : > Dear Fran?ois, > > According to H.D. Velankar's /Jayad?man/ (Bombay 1949), pp. 41?43, > and his later article on Trivikrama in JASB 33 (1958) 25?68, the > dates are as follows: > > * Trivikrama: latter half of the 11th c. CE (he was a student of > Vardham?na, the preceptor of King Kar?a of Ahnilvad Patan, r. > 1064?1094) * Sulha?a: sa?. 1246/1190 CE (he refers to the Param?ra > king Vindhyavarman in his examples) * Somacandra: sa?. 1329/1271 > CE * R?macandra: beginning of the 16th c. CE. Thank you. Do you know if these Velankar's books/articles can be found on the web? Best regards. F.P. - -- Fran?ois Patte UFR de math?matiques et informatique Laboratoire CNRS MAP5, UMR 8145 Universit? Paris Descartes 45, rue des Saints P?res F-75270 Paris Cedex 06 T?l. +33 (0)1 8394 5849 http://www.math-info.univ-paris5.fr/~patte -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2 iEYEARECAAYFAlXcKmkACgkQdE6C2dhV2JVoeQCg1MM1YtVDBB7wDuFRzGO1IzAz Y4QAoIK3pezn/i0ALSTXmhYeMZ2+fm2x =05xv -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From martin.gansten at pbhome.se Tue Aug 25 09:06:38 2015 From: martin.gansten at pbhome.se (Martin Gansten) Date: Tue, 25 Aug 15 11:06:38 +0200 Subject: [INDOLOGY] twenty-four buddhas/jinas - artistic evidence? In-Reply-To: <41EFB2F6-5F05-4EC2-8CA9-171B21A81893@ed.ac.uk> Message-ID: <55DC301E.6020006@pbhome.se> There are 24 upavy?has of Vi??u in the P??car?tra tradition, distinguished by the order in which their four hands display the discus, conch, club and lotus flower. (I regret that I have no textual source for this -- perhaps someone else does?) Martin Gansten Den 2015-08-25 kl. 10:19, skrev APPLETON Naomi: > Dear colleagues, > > I am exploring the parallel notions of twenty-four past buddhas and > twenty-four past jinas/tirthankaras. I have all the textual references > and scholarly materials, as far as I am aware, but I lack expertise in > the artistic sources. Does anybody know when or where we find the > first appearance of twenty-four buddhas or jinas together? (I am aware > of evidence for smaller numbers of past teachers in art from the > Ashokan period onwards, but I am particularly interested in when the > number 24 makes an appearance.) > > In addition, is the number 24 at all significant in Vaisnava > traditions? I am aware of the list of 24 avat?ras in the Sikh Dasam > Granth. > > Many thanks as always for your help. > > All the best, > Naomi > -------------------------------- > Dr Naomi Appleton > Senior Lecturer, Asian Religions > School of Divinity, University of Edinburgh > naomi.appleton at ed.ac.uk > > http://naomiappleton.wordpress.com > http://storyofstoryinsouthasia.wordpress.com > Twitter: @JatakaStories > > > > > > The University of Edinburgh is a charitable body, registered in > Scotland, with registration number SC005336. > > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From John.Brockington at btinternet.com Tue Aug 25 09:23:46 2015 From: John.Brockington at btinternet.com (John Brockington) Date: Tue, 25 Aug 15 10:23:46 +0100 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Fwd: Re: Fwd: Help on mystery painting of Ramayana (?) episode In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <55DC3422.1000704@btinternet.com> Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] Fwd: Help on mystery painting of Ramayana (?) episode Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2015 10:14:11 +0100 From: Mary Brockington Re: [INDOLOGY] Fwd: Help on mystery painting of Ramayana (?) episode Dear all Many thanks to Nityanand Misra for providing such a plausible identification, and for bringing to our attention yet another source book to be trawled for our inventory of R?ma narrative motifs. It is all truly exciting, and yet another lesson to us scholars not to neglect the influence of non-written sources on visual tellers. I suppose the black speck in the middle of the dish is the [reflection of the] bee/wasp. Might the almost-hidden female figure perhaps be Mandodar?? Is there any explanation for Lak?ma?a?s feet being off the ground? [The cynic in me links it to the requirement to stand for hours on a pan of boiling oil] The internationally widespread idea of the separable soul -- that villains are made all the more indestructible by having their vital organ located outside their body -- is manifested in increasingly fantastic ways throughout the R?ma tradition, and attached to several /r?k?asas/; Mah?r?va?a?s soul is also in a bee in the Thai /R?makien/, and is crushed by Hanum?n to save the captive R?ma and Lak?ma?a. The ?soul in bee? motif is not confined to the R?ma tradition: other examples are listed in /The Oral Tales of India/ by Stith Thompson and Jonas Balys (Bloomington: Indiana U P, 1958) as motif E715.3, so there is no question of direct influence. As for the severed hands, either they represent R?ma?s previous unsuccessful attempts to kill R?va?a (in which case why haven?t they regenerated?), or (less plausibly) the beginning of his disintegration at the point of death. It is intriguing that the hero is shown as Lak?ma?a; this is standard in Jain texts, but unusual elsewhere. His celibacy as a qualification for special prowess (usually expressed as not having seen a woman?s face since the exile, and so unavailable to R?ma) is generally associated with being able to see the invisible Indrajit. As always, solving one problem only raises other questions! That?s what makes our profession so compelling and so rewarding. Mrs M. Brockington Research Fellow, International Association of Sanskrit Studies 113 Rutten Lane Yarnton Kidlington OX5 1LT U.K. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From klaus.karttunen at helsinki.fi Tue Aug 25 09:39:26 2015 From: klaus.karttunen at helsinki.fi (Klaus Karttunen) Date: Tue, 25 Aug 15 12:39:26 +0300 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Fwd: Re: Fwd: Help on mystery painting of Ramayana (?) episode In-Reply-To: <55DC3422.1000704@btinternet.com> Message-ID: <5286B694-2036-468A-9FE7-92F36452B0E7@helsinki.fi> Dear all, from the Indian viewpoint the motif of external soul was long ago discussed by Ruth Norton: ?The Life-Index: A Hindu Fiction Motif?, Studies in honor of Maurice Bloomfield. New Haven 1920, 211?224. Best, Klaus Klaus Karttunen South Asian and Indoeuropean Studies Asian and African Studies, Department of World Cultures PL 59 (Unioninkatu 38 B) 00014 University of Helsinki, FINLAND Tel +358-(0)2941 4482418 Fax +358-(0)2941 22094 Klaus.Karttunen at helsinki.fi > On 25 Aug 2015, at 12:23, John Brockington wrote: > > > Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] Fwd: Help on mystery painting of Ramayana (?) episode > Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2015 10:14:11 +0100 > From: Mary Brockington > > > > Dear all > > Many thanks to Nityanand Misra for providing such a plausible identification, and for bringing to our attention yet another source book to be trawled for our inventory of R?ma narrative motifs. It is all truly exciting, and yet another lesson to us scholars not to neglect the influence of non-written sources on visual tellers. > > I suppose the black speck in the middle of the dish is the [reflection of the] bee/wasp. Might the almost-hidden female figure perhaps be Mandodar?? Is there any explanation for Lak?ma?a?s feet being off the ground? [The cynic in me links it to the requirement to stand for hours on a pan of boiling oil] > > The internationally widespread idea of the separable soul -- that villains are made all the more indestructible by having their vital organ located outside their body -- is manifested in increasingly fantastic ways throughout the R?ma tradition, and attached to several r?k?asas; Mah?r?va?a?s soul is also in a bee in the Thai R?makien, and is crushed by Hanum?n to save the captive R?ma and Lak?ma?a. The ?soul in bee? motif is not confined to the R?ma tradition: other examples are listed in The Oral Tales of India by Stith Thompson and Jonas Balys (Bloomington: Indiana U P, 1958) as motif E715.3, so there is no question of direct influence. > > As for the severed hands, either they represent R?ma?s previous unsuccessful attempts to kill R?va?a (in which case why haven?t they regenerated?), or (less plausibly) the beginning of his disintegration at the point of death. > > It is intriguing that the hero is shown as Lak?ma?a; this is standard in Jain texts, but unusual elsewhere. His celibacy as a qualification for special prowess (usually expressed as not having seen a woman?s face since the exile, and so unavailable to R?ma) is generally associated with being able to see the invisible Indrajit. > > As always, solving one problem only raises other questions! That?s what makes our profession so compelling and so rewarding. > > > Mrs M. Brockington > Research Fellow, International Association of Sanskrit Studies > 113 Rutten Lane > Yarnton > Kidlington > OX5 1LT > U.K. > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From nagarajpaturi at gmail.com Tue Aug 25 12:27:50 2015 From: nagarajpaturi at gmail.com (Nagaraj Paturi) Date: Tue, 25 Aug 15 17:57:50 +0530 Subject: [INDOLOGY] (no subject) Message-ID: >There are 24 upavy?has of Vi??u in the P??car?tra tradition, >distinguished by the order in which their four hands display the discus, >conch, club and lotus flower. (I regret that I have no textual source >for this -- perhaps someone else does?) --------Martin Gansten http://creative.sulekha.com/vishnu-dwadashanamas-part-four_426742_blog mentions Padma Samhita (Jnana kanda: 2, 26- 28) as the source for Chaturvimshati murti. The blogger gives a very detailed analysis of the topic. interestingly there is a table connecting the 24 upavyuhas to 24 letters of the Gayatri Mantra. -- Prof.Nagaraj Paturi -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rolfheiner.koch at gmail.com Tue Aug 25 12:29:22 2015 From: rolfheiner.koch at gmail.com (RHKoch) Date: Tue, 25 Aug 15 14:29:22 +0200 Subject: [INDOLOGY] twenty-four buddhas/jinas - artistic evidence? In-Reply-To: <41EFB2F6-5F05-4EC2-8CA9-171B21A81893@ed.ac.uk> Message-ID: <55DC5FA2.8030207@gmail.com> Dear Naomi, the full set of 24 or even 28 buddhas painted and also sculptured are to be find in Sri Lankan monasteries. Very late (18.-20th century AD), but may be the first evidences? Heiner Am 25.08.2015 um 10:19 schrieb APPLETON Naomi: > Dear colleagues, > > I am exploring the parallel notions of twenty-four past buddhas and > twenty-four past jinas/tirthankaras. I have all the textual references > and scholarly materials, as far as I am aware, but I lack expertise in > the artistic sources. Does anybody know when or where we find the > first appearance of twenty-four buddhas or jinas together? (I am aware > of evidence for smaller numbers of past teachers in art from the > Ashokan period onwards, but I am particularly interested in when the > number 24 makes an appearance.) > > In addition, is the number 24 at all significant in Vaisnava > traditions? I am aware of the list of 24 avat?ras in the Sikh Dasam > Granth. > > Many thanks as always for your help. > > All the best, > Naomi > -------------------------------- > Dr Naomi Appleton > Senior Lecturer, Asian Religions > School of Divinity, University of Edinburgh > naomi.appleton at ed.ac.uk > > http://naomiappleton.wordpress.com > http://storyofstoryinsouthasia.wordpress.com > Twitter: @JatakaStories > > > > > > The University of Edinburgh is a charitable body, registered in > Scotland, with registration number SC005336. > > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From nagarajpaturi at gmail.com Tue Aug 25 12:37:55 2015 From: nagarajpaturi at gmail.com (Nagaraj Paturi) Date: Tue, 25 Aug 15 18:07:55 +0530 Subject: [INDOLOGY] twenty-four buddhas/jinas - artistic evidence? Message-ID: >*There are 24 upavy?has of Vi??u in the P??car?tra tradition, *>*distinguished by the order in which their four hands display the discus, *>*conch, club and lotus flower. (I regret that I have no textual source *>*for this -- perhaps someone else does?) * --------Martin Gansten http://creative.sulekha.com/vishnu-dwadashanamas-part-four_426742_blog mentions Padma Samhita (Jnana kanda: 2, 26- 28) as the source for Chaturvimshati murti. The blogger gives a very detailed analysis of the topic. interestingly there is a table connecting the 24 upavyuhas to 24 letters of the Gayatri Mantra. -- Prof.Nagaraj Paturi Hyderabad-500044 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From christophe.vielle at uclouvain.be Tue Aug 25 14:45:39 2015 From: christophe.vielle at uclouvain.be (Christophe Vielle) Date: Tue, 25 Aug 15 16:45:39 +0200 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Texts and bodily metaphors (Fenicio, Trancoso, etc. on the Vedas) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <1438B4D7-898A-42A3-9931-7D77988A1B59@uclouvain.be> Dear Will, Here is in Fenicio the relevant passage (differing from the one mentioning ueda mantiram = veda-mantra) referring to the four Vedas: [Livro VII, ?1] p. 150 ed. Charpentier: "Tem Bram? quoatro cabe?as authoras de quoatro leis [Brahma has four heads authors of four laws], ir?a, ueressa [cf. Charpentier p. 251, the sequence has to be read : ir?auer (= .rgveda) + essa ("T. e??am = yaj?a, yajus, cp. Ezour-Vedam")], samam, edaruna?", with the note by Charpentier p. 217-8 (VII n. 2): "Brahmaa and the four vedas: this is one of the oldest passages in European literature mentioning by name the different Vedas (cp. on older European lit. dealing with the Vedas [W.] CALAND Ontdekkungsgeschiedenis [van de Veda, In: Verslagen en Mededeelingen der Koninklijke Akademie van Wetenschappen, Afdeeling Letterkunde, Vijfde Reeks, vol. III, pp. 261-334, Amsterdam, 1918 - not seen]; [Th.] ZACHARIAE GGA. [G?ttingische gelehrte Anzeigen] 1921 [ https://archive.org/details/GoettingischeGelehrteAnzeigen1921 ], 148 sq. (transl. by [H.] HOSTEN JIH. [Journal of Indian History - not seen] II, 127 sq.); CHARPENTIER JIH. III, 161 sq. [not seen]). Cp. also VINCENZO MARIA [di S. Caterina da Siena, Il Viaggio all'Inide Orientali, Venetia, 1683] 305 sq.; [E.A.] TERRY Voyage [to East India, London, 1777] 329 sq. (very confuse tradition) etc." I add in attachment for the list (the English translation by I. Zupanov (a .pdf publication which was available on-line, linked to the Conference Portugal I?ndico held in Brown University in May 2002) of an extract of the Treatise (Tratado) by Father Gon?alo Fernandes Trancoso s.j. (1541-1621), a colleague of de Nobili who lived on the Fishery Coast and in Madurai, dealing also with the four Vedas in more details. The treatise refers elsewhere to brahmins experts in Girantao (grantha), to Vedic texts of Baudh?yana (Potuien... doutor grave "important doctor"), ??val?yana, Apastamba (Abasten), ?ra.nyaka (Arenako), Yajurveda (Eihirvedao), and to several Vedic rituals. See J. Wicki, Die Schrift des P. Gon?alo Fernandes S.J. ?ber die Brahmanen und Dharma-?astra (Madura 1616), M?nster, 1957, Ver?ffentlichungen des Instituts f?r Missionswissenschaft der Westf?lischen Wilhelms-Universit?t M?nster Westfalen Hft 6, and by the same the annotated critical edition of the whole Tratado do Pe Gon?alo Fernandes Trancoso sobre o hindu?smo, Madur? 1616, Lisbon: Centro de Estudos Hist?ricos Ultramarinos, 1973 (cf. also on Trancoso, Sweetman's Mapping Hinduism, pp. 56 sq.) About the Marathi version of the Giitaa, the identification attributed to Zupanov & Barreto Xavier (2015, p. ? - I have not the book yet) was already made by J. Wicki (cf. Documenta Indica IV, Roma, 1958, Monumenta Historica Societatis Iesu vol. 78, p. 802 fn. 37 of his edition of the Portuguese original text of the Jesuit 1560 letter, with reference to his article "Aelteste portugiesische Uebersetzungen aus der Mar?th?-Literatur", In: Neue Zeitschrift f?r Missionswissenschaft 11, 1955, p. 145; cf. also Halbfass 1988, pp. 37, 464). Best wishes, Christophe Le 13 ao?t 2015 ? 01:49, Will Sweetman a ?crit : > Thanks, all, for your comments. > > Christophe ? I think Fenicio mentions the term Veda only in relation to a Vedic mantra recited while consuming panchagavya (I think - I have only my notes on Charpentier's edition (does anyone have a pdf?), which in any case according to Paolo Aranha omits a large part of the original ms). But Ludo Rocher argues (Puranas, 1986: 11) that Fenicio's primary sources were puranic, and that this is even made explicit in the title of a Latin translation of Fenicio: Collectio omnium dogmatum & arcanorum ex Puranis seu libris Canonicis paganorum Indianorum... > > Part of my argument in the article I'm preparing is that despite many references to the Vedas as the most authoritative Indian sacred texts, other texts were almost invariably the actual source. Azevedo, for instance, having mentioned the Vedas as the original texts then goes on to cite exclusively Tamil sources (Tirumantiram, Tiruv?cakam, Tiv?karam, Tirukku?a? and another Tamil text on caste). > > Thanks also for the references to the texts acquired by the Jesuits (stolen on their behalf by a convert, it appears) in the 1550s. On the basis of fragments of translations of these done by the convert (a Brahmin baptised as Manuel Olivera) which were sent to Europe and are extant in Portugal and Goa, Ines Zupanov and Angela Barreto Xavier have identified these as J??ne?vara?s Marathi version of Bhagavad-G?t?, a purana by N?mdev, and parts of the Mah?bh?rata. Also in Portugal are three manuscripts containing parts of the Mah?bh?rata and R?may??a in Konkani prose and Marathi verse, transliterated into Roman script by Jesuits around the same period. I think there is likely some connection here, but I'm not aware of anyone who's explored it. > > Best wishes > > Will > > > On 12 August 2015 at 20:25, Christophe Vielle wrote: > Thank you for this reference (with Gered?o rendering grantha). > > So (I have not here the book at hand), nothing on the Vedas in J. Fenicio's work (1609? He arrived in India in 1584) ? (cf. The Livro da Seita dos Indios Orientais (Brit. Mus. MS. Sloane 1820) of Father Jacobo Fenicio , s.j., edited with and introduction and notes by Jarl Charpentier, Uppsala : Almqvist & Wiksells, 1933, Arbeten utgivna med undest?d av Vilhelm Ekmans Universitetsfond 40). > > Note that the (Bhagavad-)G?t? (with the Avadh?ta-G?t?) is already presented and discussed as the most sacred book of the brahmins in a Jesuit letter of 1560. > See https://books.google.be/books?id=qP87AAAAcAAJ > pp. 376 sq. ("Guitaa & Detatriaa") (cf. Charpentier p. xliv) > > Best wishes, > > Christophe Vielle > > Le 11 ao?t 2015 ? 02:03, Will Sweetman a ?crit : > >> Dear all >> >> I'm working on some early European accounts of the Vedas including what I think is the very first reference to the Vedas in a European text. This was published in Couto's Da Asia, but is in fact taken from another work written by an Augustinian friar Agostinho de Azevedo in 1603. Azevedo (in my translation) says that the Brahmins: >> >> "have many books in their Latin, which they call Gered?o which contain everything they are to believe, and all the ceremonies they are to perform. These books are divided into bodies [corpos], limbs [membros] and joints [articulos], whose originals are those they call Veados, which are divided into four parts, and these further into fifty-two parts in the following manner: six which they call Xastra, which are the bodies, eighteen which they call Purana, which are the limbs, twenty-eight called Agamon which are the joints." >> >> This formulation, with variations, is repeated in many subsequent European sources. The terms for the divisions (corpos,membros, articulos), which are not so often repeated, have usually been translated more literally as bodies, members and articles (or articulations). >> >> I'm curious as to whether anyone is aware of an Indian source which uses these metaphors. I'm aware, of course of the Ved??gas, but I think the six here are clearly meant to be the ??stras/dar?anas. This may indicate some muddling?or sheer invention?on Azevedo's part, but in other instances I've found it best to look first for an Indian source or idea an early European writer may be following rather than immediately assuming error or invention, so I'd welcome any leads and/or comments on translating membros as limbs and articulos as joints. "Articles" for the latter seems to me to be a particularly unilluminating translation. >> >> Best >> >> Will >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> INDOLOGY mailing list >> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info >> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) >> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) > > ??????????????????? > Christophe Vielle > Louvain-la-Neuve > > ??????????????????? Christophe Vielle Louvain-la-Neuve -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Zupanov-PortugalIndico2003Fernandes.pdf Type: application/pdf Size: 136160 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rpg at berkeley.edu Tue Aug 25 16:08:44 2015 From: rpg at berkeley.edu (Robert Goldman) Date: Tue, 25 Aug 15 09:08:44 -0700 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Help on mystery painting of Ramayana (?) episode In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <7F544D18-3603-471F-BE1D-B73055B96DE9@berkeley.edu> Dear Nityanand-ji, Thank you very much for helping us solve this puzzling painting and reminding us of the innumerable variations on the endlessly fascinating R?makath?. And thanks again to all who made helpful suggestions. Best. Dr. R. P. Goldman Catherine and William L. Magistretti Distinguished Professor in South and Southeast Asian Studies Department of South and Southeast Asian Studies MC # 2540 The University of California at Berkeley Berkeley, CA 94720-2540 Tel: 510-642-4089 Fax: 510-642-2409 > On Aug 24, 2015, at 9:48 PM, Nityanand Misra wrote: > > The painting refers to the Bh?la folk narrative Rom-Sitmani Varata in which R?va?a?s life is in a bumblebee fixed in the chariot of S?rya. , R?va?a can be killed only if the bumblebee is dropped by an arrow into a pan of boiling oil when its reflection falls in the oil at noon. Lak?ma?a does this and R?va?a is killed. > > Sources: > > 1) Jaydipsinh Dodiya (2001). Critical Perspectives on the R?m?ya?a. New Delhi: Sarup & Sons. ISBN 9788176252447 . p. 102: Not Rama, but Laxma?a kills R?va? here by his valour and intelligence. We find here another unusual motif of R?va?vadha. Laxma?a gets hold of Mandodari?s clothes by tempting the washerman with jewells. He proceeds to serve lunch to R?va? disguised Mandodari and cleverly finds out the secret of his death. R?va??s soul is packed safely in a wasp which resides up in the chariot of the sun. Now if a person who must be a celibate for past 12 years, stands from the early morning on a pan of boiling oil and sharp at noon when the sun comes on head and the wasp is re?ected below in the oil, if he kills the wasp with a single arrow and if it falls dead in the oil and burns, then and then only, R?va? could die. Now, who but Laxma?a fulfils all these necessary quali?cations? Sothe thing is done. R?va??s death here is not a hero's death fighting in a war, but a ritualistic death. > > > 2) Manoja Kum?ra Mi?ra (2001). Maukhika Mah?k?vya. New Delhi: D K Printworld Private Limited. ISBN 9788124601761 . p. 30: ??????? ??????? ?? ??????? ???? ???? ?? ?????? ?? ????? ??? ???? ???? ???? ?? ????? (???) ???????? ????? ????? ?? ?? ??? ???????? ????? ??? ??? ??? ??????? ?? ???? ???? ?? ?????? ?? ?????????? ???? ???? ?? ?? ????? ??? ?? ????? ?? ????? ??? ?? ???? ??? ?????? ???????? ?? ??? ????? ?? ?????????? ??? ??? ???? ?? ???? ?? ??? ?? ????? ???? ????? ?? ??? ??? ??? ?????? ?? ?? ???? ?? ?????? ?? ???? ?? ?? ?????? ?? ?? ?????? ?? ??? ?? ???? ??? ?? ???? ????? ?? ??????? ???? ?????? ?? ????? ???? ????? ???? ???? ???? ???? ????? ??? ???? ????? ?? ??? ???? ???? ???? > > > Sent from my iPad > > On 25 Aug, 2015, at 1:08 am, Robert Goldman > wrote: > >> Dear Colleagues, >> >> Apparently the image did not come through with my original mailing. Thanks to those of you who have alerted me to this and to those who have offered valuable help on the basis of the verbal description. I am attaching the image again, this time in a smaller format in the hopes that you will be able to see it. Thanks again for you help and advice. >> >> Best. >> >> >> >> >> >> Dr. R. P. Goldman >> Catherine and William L. Magistretti Distinguished Professor in South and Southeast Asian Studies >> Department of South and Southeast Asian Studies MC # 2540 >> The University of California at Berkeley >> Berkeley, CA 94720-2540 >> Tel: 510-642-4089 >> Fax: 510-642-2409 >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> INDOLOGY mailing list >> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info >> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) >> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From christophe.vielle at uclouvain.be Tue Aug 25 20:27:36 2015 From: christophe.vielle at uclouvain.be (Christophe Vielle) Date: Tue, 25 Aug 15 22:27:36 +0200 Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_[INDOLOGY]_Texts_and_bodily_metaphors_(Jo=C3=A3o_de_Lucena)?= In-Reply-To: <1438B4D7-898A-42A3-9931-7D77988A1B59@uclouvain.be> Message-ID: <01AC57F4-F5C2-4750-B8C7-3B249D548269@uclouvain.be> The bodily metaphor apparently referring to the Vedas (not named as such) is also attested in 1600 in Jo?o de Lucena, Historia da vida do padre Francisco de Xavier, p. 95 (col. 1, after his account of the Gerodam language ; the rest of the passage is also interesting). To be read at: http://purl.pt/14775 or https://books.google.be/books?id=xpboetFBU5cC or https://books.google.be/books?id=t3pJAAAAcAAJ (the work was reprinted in facsimile in 1952; cf review in French: url : /web/revues/home/prescript/article/hispa_0007-4640_1953_num_55_3_3373_t1_ ) Le 25 ao?t 2015 ? 16:45, Christophe Vielle a ?crit : > Dear Will, > > Here is in Fenicio the relevant passage (differing from the one mentioning ueda mantiram = veda-mantra) referring to the four Vedas: [Livro VII, ?1] p. 150 ed. Charpentier: > "Tem Bram? quoatro cabe?as authoras de quoatro leis [Brahma has four heads authors of four laws], ir?a, ueressa [cf. Charpentier p. 251, the sequence has to be read : ir?auer (= .rgveda) + essa ("T. e??am = yaj?a, yajus, cp. Ezour-Vedam")], samam, edaruna?", with the note by Charpentier p. 217-8 (VII n. 2): "Brahmaa and the four vedas: this is one of the oldest passages in European literature mentioning by name the different Vedas (cp. on older European lit. dealing with the Vedas [W.] CALAND Ontdekkungsgeschiedenis [van de Veda, In: Verslagen en Mededeelingen der Koninklijke Akademie van Wetenschappen, Afdeeling Letterkunde, Vijfde Reeks, vol. III, pp. 261-334, Amsterdam, 1918 - not seen]; [Th.] ZACHARIAE GGA. [G?ttingische gelehrte Anzeigen] 1921 [ https://archive.org/details/GoettingischeGelehrteAnzeigen1921 ], 148 sq. (transl. by [H.] HOSTEN JIH. [Journal of Indian History - not seen] II, 127 sq.); CHARPENTIER JIH. III, 161 sq. [not seen]). Cp. also VINCENZO MARIA [di S. Caterina da Siena, Il Viaggio all'Inide Orientali, Venetia, 1683] 305 sq.; [E.A.] TERRY Voyage [to East India, London, 1777] 329 sq. (very confuse tradition) etc." > > I add in attachment for the list the English translation by I. Zupanov (a .pdf publication which was available on-line, linked to the Conference Portugal I?ndico held in Brown University in May 2002) of an extract of the Treatise (Tratado) by Father Gon?alo Fernandes Trancoso s.j. (1541-1621), a colleague of de Nobili who lived on the Fishery Coast and in Madurai, dealing also with the four Vedas in more details. The treatise refers elsewhere to brahmins experts in Girantao (grantha), to Vedic texts of Baudh?yana (Potuien... doutor grave "important doctor"), ??val?yana, Apastamba (Abasten), ?ra.nyaka (Arenako), Yajurveda (Eihirvedao), and to several Vedic rituals. See J. Wicki, Die Schrift des P. Gon?alo Fernandes S.J. ?ber die Brahmanen und Dharma-?astra (Madura 1616), M?nster, 1957, Ver?ffentlichungen des Instituts f?r Missionswissenschaft der Westf?lischen Wilhelms-Universit?t M?nster Westfalen Hft 6, and by the same the annotated critical edition of the whole Tratado do Pe Gon?alo Fernandes Trancoso sobre o hindu?smo, Madur? 1616, Lisbon: Centro de Estudos Hist?ricos Ultramarinos, 1973 (cf. also on Trancoso, Sweetman's Mapping Hinduism, pp. 56 sq.) > > About the Marathi version of the Giitaa, the identification attributed to Zupanov & Barreto Xavier (2015, p. ? - I have not the book yet) was already made by J. Wicki (cf. Documenta Indica IV, Roma, 1958, Monumenta Historica Societatis Iesu vol. 78, p. 802 fn. 37 of his edition of the Portuguese original text of the Jesuit 1560 letter, with reference to his article "Aelteste portugiesische Uebersetzungen aus der Mar?th?-Literatur", In: Neue Zeitschrift f?r Missionswissenschaft 11, 1955, p. 145; cf. also Halbfass 1988, pp. 37, 464). > > Best wishes, > Christophe > > Le 13 ao?t 2015 ? 01:49, Will Sweetman a ?crit : > >> Thanks, all, for your comments. >> >> Christophe ? I think Fenicio mentions the term Veda only in relation to a Vedic mantra recited while consuming panchagavya (I think - I have only my notes on Charpentier's edition (does anyone have a pdf?), which in any case according to Paolo Aranha omits a large part of the original ms). But Ludo Rocher argues (Puranas, 1986: 11) that Fenicio's primary sources were puranic, and that this is even made explicit in the title of a Latin translation of Fenicio: Collectio omnium dogmatum & arcanorum ex Puranis seu libris Canonicis paganorum Indianorum... >> >> Part of my argument in the article I'm preparing is that despite many references to the Vedas as the most authoritative Indian sacred texts, other texts were almost invariably the actual source. Azevedo, for instance, having mentioned the Vedas as the original texts then goes on to cite exclusively Tamil sources (Tirumantiram, Tiruv?cakam, Tiv?karam, Tirukku?a? and another Tamil text on caste). >> >> Thanks also for the references to the texts acquired by the Jesuits (stolen on their behalf by a convert, it appears) in the 1550s. On the basis of fragments of translations of these done by the convert (a Brahmin baptised as Manuel Olivera) which were sent to Europe and are extant in Portugal and Goa, Ines Zupanov and Angela Barreto Xavier have identified these as J??ne?vara?s Marathi version of Bhagavad-G?t?, a purana by N?mdev, and parts of the Mah?bh?rata. Also in Portugal are three manuscripts containing parts of the Mah?bh?rata and R?may??a in Konkani prose and Marathi verse, transliterated into Roman script by Jesuits around the same period. I think there is likely some connection here, but I'm not aware of anyone who's explored it. >> >> Best wishes >> >> Will >> >> >> On 12 August 2015 at 20:25, Christophe Vielle wrote: >> Thank you for this reference (with Gered?o rendering grantha). >> >> So (I have not here the book at hand), nothing on the Vedas in J. Fenicio's work (1609? He arrived in India in 1584) ? (cf. The Livro da Seita dos Indios Orientais (Brit. Mus. MS. Sloane 1820) of Father Jacobo Fenicio , s.j., edited with and introduction and notes by Jarl Charpentier, Uppsala : Almqvist & Wiksells, 1933, Arbeten utgivna med undest?d av Vilhelm Ekmans Universitetsfond 40). >> >> Note that the (Bhagavad-)G?t? (with the Avadh?ta-G?t?) is already presented and discussed as the most sacred book of the brahmins in a Jesuit letter of 1560. >> See https://books.google.be/books?id=qP87AAAAcAAJ >> pp. 376 sq. ("Guitaa & Detatriaa") (cf. Charpentier p. xliv) >> >> Best wishes, >> >> Christophe Vielle >> >> Le 11 ao?t 2015 ? 02:03, Will Sweetman a ?crit : >> >>> Dear all >>> >>> I'm working on some early European accounts of the Vedas including what I think is the very first reference to the Vedas in a European text. This was published in Couto's Da Asia, but is in fact taken from another work written by an Augustinian friar Agostinho de Azevedo in 1603. Azevedo (in my translation) says that the Brahmins: >>> >>> "have many books in their Latin, which they call Gered?o which contain everything they are to believe, and all the ceremonies they are to perform. These books are divided into bodies [corpos], limbs [membros] and joints [articulos], whose originals are those they call Veados, which are divided into four parts, and these further into fifty-two parts in the following manner: six which they call Xastra, which are the bodies, eighteen which they call Purana, which are the limbs, twenty-eight called Agamon which are the joints." >>> >>> This formulation, with variations, is repeated in many subsequent European sources. The terms for the divisions (corpos,membros, articulos), which are not so often repeated, have usually been translated more literally as bodies, members and articles (or articulations). >>> >>> I'm curious as to whether anyone is aware of an Indian source which uses these metaphors. I'm aware, of course of the Ved??gas, but I think the six here are clearly meant to be the ??stras/dar?anas. This may indicate some muddling?or sheer invention?on Azevedo's part, but in other instances I've found it best to look first for an Indian source or idea an early European writer may be following rather than immediately assuming error or invention, so I'd welcome any leads and/or comments on translating membros as limbs and articulos as joints. "Articles" for the latter seems to me to be a particularly unilluminating translation. >>> >>> Best >>> >>> Will >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> INDOLOGY mailing list >>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info >>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) >>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) >> >> ??????????????????? >> Christophe Vielle >> Louvain-la-Neuve >> >> > > ??????????????????? > Christophe Vielle > Louvain-la-Neuve > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) ??????????????????? Christophe Vielle Louvain-la-Neuve -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From wujastyk at gmail.com Tue Aug 25 20:54:53 2015 From: wujastyk at gmail.com (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Tue, 25 Aug 15 14:54:53 -0600 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Kaiser Shum Shere library? Message-ID: Dear Colleagues, Has anyone heard anything definite about the fate of libraries in the Nepal valley? I am concerned about the KSS library, about which I heard an unconfirmed rumour of partial destruction. It seems churlish to ask about libraries and manuscripts, when so many people have died or been wounded or rendered homeless by the earthquake. Nevertheless, in the midst of human disaster, cultural heritage is also important, as we are reminded this week by the appalling events in Palmyra. Best, Dominik -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From nmisra at gmail.com Wed Aug 26 04:58:40 2015 From: nmisra at gmail.com (Nityanand Misra) Date: Wed, 26 Aug 15 10:28:40 +0530 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Kaiser Shum Shere library? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: As per an article published in May on the Business Insider website, an official of the Kaiser Library estimated that around one third of the 28,000 books were destroyed and the quake left the library in ruins. http://www.businessinsider.com/afp-nepal-quake-leaves-century-old-library-in-ruins-2015-5 The library website lists the contact details but I am not sure if the email and phone still work http://klib.gov.np/introduction/contact-us/ Caveat lector: The Business Insider is more known for business and technology reporting and has been noted for clickbaiting tactics, but the website traffic rivals that of Wall Street Journal as per a New York Times article. This article seems reliable though, at least more reliable than an unconfirmed rumour. On Aug 26, 2015 2:25 AM, "Dominik Wujastyk" wrote: > Dear Colleagues, > > Has anyone heard anything definite about the fate of libraries in the > Nepal valley? I am concerned about the KSS library, about which I heard an > unconfirmed rumour of partial destruction. > > It seems churlish to ask about libraries and manuscripts, when so many > people have died or been wounded or rendered homeless by the earthquake. > Nevertheless, in the midst of human disaster, cultural heritage is also > important, as we are reminded this week by the appalling events in Palmyra. > > Best, > Dominik > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing > committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or > unsubscribe) > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From nmisra at gmail.com Wed Aug 26 06:45:36 2015 From: nmisra at gmail.com (Nityanand Misra) Date: Wed, 26 Aug 15 12:15:36 +0530 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Fwd: Re: Fwd: Help on mystery painting of Ramayana (?) episode In-Reply-To: <55DC3422.1000704@btinternet.com> Message-ID: On Aug 25, 2015 2:53 PM, "John Brockington" wrote: > > > Subject: > Re: [INDOLOGY] Fwd: Help on mystery painting of Ramayana (?) episode > Date: > Tue, 25 Aug 2015 10:14:11 +0100 > From: > Mary Brockington > > > > Dear all > > Many thanks to Nityanand Misra for providing such a plausible identification, and for bringing to our attention yet another source book to be trawled for our inventory of R?ma narrative motifs. It is all truly exciting, and yet another lesson to us scholars not to neglect the influence of non-written sources on visual tellers. > > I suppose the black speck in the middle of the dish is the [reflection of the] bee/wasp. Might the almost-hidden female figure perhaps be Mandodar?? Is there any explanation for Lak?ma?a?s feet being off the ground? [The cynic in me links it to the requirement to stand for hours on a pan of boiling oil] > > The black speck should be the reflection as the arrow has not been shot yet by Laksmana. Also note that the feet of Laksmana are coloured red, in stark contrast to the fair skin shown on the face and the hands. The shade of red looks quite like burnt skin. This possibly captures the narrative of standing for hours on a pan of boiling oil. Are the feet in the air to show he has just jumped out of the pan to get a full view of the reflection of the bee/wasp in the oil and have a better aim at the target? The body posture of Laksmana looks like that of somebody jumping forwards and simultaneously looking down backwards. > As for the severed hands, either they represent R?ma?s previous unsuccessful attempts to kill R?va?a (in which case why haven?t they regenerated?), or (less plausibly) the beginning of his disintegration at the point of death. > The hands have just been severed, all three are shown falling on the ground. This could possibly explain why they have not regenerated [yet]. Another mysterious element is an ardhacandra arrow shot at the pan. Who has shot it? Ravana is not holding any bows. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mkapstei at uchicago.edu Wed Aug 26 07:19:22 2015 From: mkapstei at uchicago.edu (Matthew Kapstein) Date: Wed, 26 Aug 15 07:19:22 +0000 Subject: [INDOLOGY] email search Message-ID: <82C3E42590D939418C74DD76B97DDED047AEF202@xm-mbx-04-prod.ad.uchicago.edu> Dear friends, I would be most grateful for the contact address of Dr Margharita Saccone. Off list of course, please. with thanks in advance, Matthew Matthew Kapstein Directeur d'?tudes, Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes Numata Visiting Professor of Buddhist Studies, The University of Chicago ________________________________________ From mkapstei at uchicago.edu Wed Aug 26 08:11:53 2015 From: mkapstei at uchicago.edu (Matthew Kapstein) Date: Wed, 26 Aug 15 08:11:53 +0000 Subject: [INDOLOGY] email search In-Reply-To: <82C3E42590D939418C74DD76B97DDED047AEF202@xm-mbx-04-prod.ad.uchicago.edu> Message-ID: <82C3E42590D939418C74DD76B97DDED047AEF246@xm-mbx-04-prod.ad.uchicago.edu> Many thanks to all who hace responded so quickly! I think there should be no need for additional replies. best, Matthew Matthew Kapstein Directeur d'?tudes, Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes Numata Visiting Professor of Buddhist Studies, The University of Chicago ________________________________________ From: Matthew Kapstein Sent: Wednesday, August 26, 2015 2:19 AM To: Dominik Wujastyk Cc: Indology Subject: RE: [INDOLOGY] email search Dear friends, I would be most grateful for the contact address of Dr Margharita Saccone. Off list of course, please. with thanks in advance, Matthew Matthew Kapstein Directeur d'?tudes, Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes Numata Visiting Professor of Buddhist Studies, The University of Chicago ________________________________________ From krishnaprasadah.g at gmail.com Wed Aug 26 13:52:59 2015 From: krishnaprasadah.g at gmail.com (Krishnaprasad G) Date: Wed, 26 Aug 15 19:22:59 +0530 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Setuyatranuvarnana by T. Ganapati Sastri In-Reply-To: <3C833379-6343-411D-89CE-62F3B4BB96A7@uclouvain.be> Message-ID: Dear Christophe Vielle Thanks for your detail splendid reply indeed. This helps me a lot. One thing I observed is my bad memory Ramasharana tripathi doesn't mention Setuyatranuvarnana. It is only Krsnamacariar in History of Sanskrirt Literature 1937 edition, where in the paragraph 347 and page number 302. mentions that Setuyatranuvarnana. However, while in the foot note there is plural usage as "Manuscripts of these works are now in the author's home." This means At least up to 1935 (assuming he has finished the press copy at least two years back,) the work is not printed is sure. But he also updated the book in the year of printing also - in the form of Index of the book, which author himself informs. I could not find any update in the index also. I will also check NCC etc as suggested by you. Also please inform updates if any. Yours sincerely KP On Mon, Aug 24, 2015 at 10:08 PM, Christophe Vielle < christophe.vielle at uclouvain.be> wrote: > According to the obituary of K. G. ?ankar in the JRAS of 1926 (Issue 3, > July 1926, pp. 584-87; http://www.jstor.org/stable/25221050 ), the *Setuy?tr?nuvar?anam > *is to be counted "among his (...) early works, which all remain > unpublished" (like his Sanskrit translation of *The Merchant of Venice*). > The Harvard exemplar (ex libris Ch. R. Lanman) of the 1st ed. of his > *Bh?rat?nuvar?anam* (Trivandrum: Printers' Jobbing Press, 1905) is > available at: > > https://archive.org/details/Bharatanuvarnanam_-_T_Ganapati_Sastri > > and > > http://sanskritdocuments.org/scannedbooks/forencoding/Bharatanuvarnanam-TGSastri1905.pdf > > Le 24 ao?t 2015 ? 13:09, Christophe Vielle > a ?crit : > > The work is also briefly presented in > - "T. Ga?apati Sastri: The Discover" by N.P. Unni (in *Highways and > Byways in Sanskrit Literature*, Delhi: New Bharatya Book Corporation, > 2012, vol. 1, pp. 120-125, with references to a notice by Winternitz 1934, > and an obituary by V. Raghavan in the* Journal of Kerala University > Manuscripts Library* vol. 2 [1949], both items I have not seen; cf. > previously by N.P. Unni, *Kau?alya Artha??stra (A study)*, Delhi: > Baharatiya Vidya Prakashan, 1983, pp. 32-36 = "general introduction", > *ibid.* introducing the vol. 1 of the 3 vol. reprint of the TSS ed. of > the Artha??stra [with the commentary of T. Ga?apati ??str?], same > publisher 1984 [and 1990]); > - "Life and works of T. Ganapati Sastri" by T. Devarajan (in Id. ed. *Dramas > of Bhasa: Seminar papers and centenary address*, University of Kerala, > 2005, pp. 9-12); > - S. Venkitasubramonia Iyer, *Kerala Sanskrit Literature: A Bibliography,* > University of Kerala, 1976, pp. 30-31, 486 (with references to *KSC* and > *KSSC*); > - K. Kunjunni Raja (*CKSL*, 1958/1980, p. 257); > - Obituary by K. G. Sankar in *The Indian Historical Quarterly* 2, 1926, > pp. 222-224 > > http://www.new1.dli.ernet.in/scripts/FullindexDefault.htm?path1=/data2/upload/0055/434&first=1&last=934&barcode=4990010201282 > - Obituary by Sylvain L?vi in *Journal Asiatique* 208, pp. 374-381 > > http://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/bpt6k933084/f378.image.r=Journal%20asiatique%20208.langFR > (- nothing in the obituary by V.R.R. Dikshitar in *A.B.O.R.I.* 8/3, > 1926-27, pp. 322-325 > http://www.jstor.org/stable/41694776 ) > > But nowhere is given a reference to an edition of the work. > However, I suspect that it was issued in some local/Kerala publishing > house or journal. As it must have been the case of his poem > *Cakravartin?gu?ama?im?l?* (in praise of Queen Victoria) and other > original Sanskrit compositions. The NCC should be checked s.v. > At the least his manual of Indian culture entitled *Bh?rat?nuvar?anam*, > prefaced (in English) by Sylvain L?vi (who was in epistolary contact with > him and at the request of whom the work was written) was issued in 1905 > (2nd and 3rd ed. Trivandrum : Sudharma Print House, 1925 and 1940; > re-issued by V. Subrahmanyan, Hyderabad: Sanskrit Academy, 2010, Sanskrit > Academy Series (ed. T. Keshava Narayana) no. 83). > > Best wishes, > Christophe Vielle > > > > > > > Le 20 ao?t 2015 ? 17:04, Krishnaprasad G a > ?crit : > > > Namaste > > Dear all > > I am searching for details of the work Setuyatranuvarnana by T Ganapaty > Shastri. > > In the book History of Sanskrit Literature by Krsnamacariar mentions that > the MS of the work is in his home(even I tried contacting his grandchildren > but no success), but in the book Kaumudikatha Kallolini the name of the > work is quoted which leads to suspect that the work would have printed > after 1930s. > > Please if any one knows the details of the edition of the book let me know. > > Yours sincerely > Krishnaprasad > PhD candidate > Karnataka Samskrita University > Bengaluru - INDIA > > Thanks > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing > committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or > unsubscribe) > > > ??????????????????? > Christophe Vielle > Louvain-la-Neuve > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing > committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or > unsubscribe) > > > ??????????????????? > Christophe Vielle > Louvain-la-Neuve > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From kellner at asia-europe.uni-heidelberg.de Wed Aug 26 18:07:24 2015 From: kellner at asia-europe.uni-heidelberg.de (Birgit Kellner) Date: Wed, 26 Aug 15 20:07:24 +0200 Subject: [INDOLOGY] New journal issue: JIABS 36/37 Message-ID: <55DE005C.40207@asia-europe.uni-heidelberg.de> Dear colleagues, volume 36/37 of the Journal of the International Association of Buddhist Studies has just appeared. Besides two articles -- by Brandon Dotson and Seong-Uk Kim -- the volume contains two sections, one on "New Approaches to Studying the Materiality of Buddhist Manuscripts" and the other on "Authors and Editors in the Literary Traditions of Asian Buddhism". A conference report on the XVIth IABS Congress (Taiwan) is also included. The Table of Contents is given below. Information on subscriptions can be found on the JIABS website: http://journals.ub.uni-heidelberg.de/index.php/jiabs/index Kindly direct all enquiries relating to subscriptions to the JIABS treasurer (treasurer at iabsinfo.net). With best regards, Birgit Kellner, Ingo Strauch (editors of this issue) --------------------------------------------------------------- Journal of the International Association of Buddhist Studies Volume 36/37 2013/2014 (2015) Table of Contents Articles The Remains of the Dharma : Editing, Rejecting, and Replacing the Buddha?s Words in Officially Commissioned S?tras from Dunhuang, 820s to 840s Brandon Dotson (5-68) The Zen Theory of Language : Linji Yixuan?s Teaching of ?Three Statements, Three Mysteries, and Three Essentials? (sanju sanxuan sanyao ??????) Seong-Uk Kim (69-90) Section: New Approaches to Studying the Materiality of Buddhist Manuscripts Inks, Pigments, Paper : In Quest of Unveiling the History of the Production of a Tibetan Buddhist Manuscript Collection from the Tibetan-Nepalese Borderlands Orna Almogi, Emanuel Kindzorra, Oliver Hahn, Ira Rabin (93-118) Material Analysis of Sanskrit Palm-Leaf Manuscripts Preserved in Nepal Martin Delhey, Emanuel Kindzorra, Oliver Hahn, Ira Rabin (119-152) Recovering Lost Writing and Beyond : Multispectral Imaging for Text-related and Codicological Studies of Tibetan Paper and Sanskrit Palm-Leaf Manuscripts Orna Almogi, Martin Delhey, Claire MacDonald, Boryana Pouvkova (153-192) Section: Authors and Editors in the Literary Traditions of Asian Buddhism Authors and Editors in the Literary Traditions of Asian Buddhism Cathy Cantwell, Robert Mayer (195-204) Establishing / Interpreting / Translating : Is It Just That Easy? Jonathan Silk (205-226) gTer ston and Tradent : Innovation and Conservation in Tibetan Treasure Literature Robert Mayer (227-242) Different Kinds of Composition / Compilation Within the Dudjom Revelatory Tradition Cathy Cantwell (243-280) Innovation and the Role of Intertextuality in the Pa?caskandhaka and Related Yog?c?ra Works Jowita Kramer (281-352) Building the Therav?da Commentaries : Buddhaghosa and Dhammap?la as Authors, Compilers, Redactors, Editors and Critics Oskar von Hin?ber (353-388) The Case of the Abhidhamma Commentary L. S. Cousins (389-422) In What Way is There a Sa?ghavacana? Finding the Narrator, Author and Editor in P?li Texts Sarah Shaw (423-458) The Collected Sayings of the Master : On Authorship, Author-function, and Authority Marta Sernesi (459-498) ?The (Dis)appearance of an Author? : Some Observations and Reflections on Authorship in Modern Thai Buddhism Martin Seeger (499-536) Early Works and Persons Related to the So-called J??nap?da School P?ter-D?niel Sz?nt? (537-562) Report of the XVIth Congress of the International Association of Buddhist Studies Ulrich Pagel (563-570) -- ---------- Prof. Dr. Birgit Kellner Chair of Buddhist Studies Cluster of Excellence "Asia and Europe in a Global Context - The Dynamics of Transculturality" University of Heidelberg Karl Jaspers Centre Vo?stra?e 2, Building 4400 D-69115 Heidelberg Phone: +49(0)6221 - 54 4301 (Office Ina Chebbi: 4363) Fax: +49(0)6221 - 54 4012 From kellner at asia-europe.uni-heidelberg.de Wed Aug 26 18:49:47 2015 From: kellner at asia-europe.uni-heidelberg.de (Birgit Kellner) Date: Wed, 26 Aug 15 20:49:47 +0200 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Fwd: Seed Funding for New Professorships in Buddhist Studies In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <55DE0A4B.3060309@asia-europe.uni-heidelberg.de> This information may be of interest. With best regards, Birgit Kellner -------- Weitergeleitete Nachricht -------- Betreff: Seed Funding for New Professorships in Buddhist Studies Datum: Wed, 26 Aug 2015 17:28:50 +0000 Von: Buddhist Studies An: kellner at asia-europe.uni-heidelberg.de The Robert H. N. Ho Family Foundation Program in Buddhist Studies , administered by the American Council of Learned Societies , invites applications from colleges and universities wishing to establish or expand teaching in Buddhist studies. This new opportunity for seed funding complements other competitions funded by The Robert H. N. Ho Family Foundation . * Institutions of higher education from across the globe are eligible to apply for grants up to $300,000 (to be expended over four years) in support of new teaching positions in Buddhist studies.^1 * Award funds should be used only for the new professor?s salary, benefits, and research expenses, not for indirect or administrative costs, or office expenses. * In addition, applicant institutions are welcome to request funds for costs related to a competitive search for the proposed position. The request must not exceed the $300,000 maximum award. * Applications must include a multi-year plan for matching at least 1/3 of Foundation funding over the grant period, but the matching ratio need not be the same each year. (Please see a sample schedule for sequenced funding that meets the matching requirement here .) * A letter must be attached to the application from the institution? s president, vice-chancellor, rector, provost, or dean expressing the institution?s commitment to maintain the seeded position as a permanent, tenure-track post after the expiration of The Robert H. N. Ho Family Foundation funding. * The heart of the application will be an essay outlining the proposed position?its responsibilities, departmental location, and fit with the institution?s mission and curricular plans. The essay should also describe the search for filling the new position, including the qualifications sought in potential applicants. Online application forms will be available at ofa.acls.org/ in *mid-September 2015*. Completed applications must be submitted through the ACLS Online Fellowship Application system no later than 9 pm Eastern Standard Time,* January 20, 2016*. Questions should be directed to buddhiststudies at acls.org . ^1 Buddhist studies are present in many academic disciplines and specializations. Some of the fields engaged in the study of Buddhist traditions as well as contemporary developments are history, philosophy, archaeology, art history, anthropology, philology, and studies of religion. For the purpose of this competition, Buddhist studies are defined broadly. From arlogriffiths at hotmail.com Thu Aug 27 08:28:43 2015 From: arlogriffiths at hotmail.com (Arlo Griffiths) Date: Thu, 27 Aug 15 08:28:43 +0000 Subject: =?utf-8?Q?[INDOLOGY]_help_with_Ny=C4=81yasudh=C4=81_quotation?= Message-ID: Dear colleagues, Can anyone help me trace the precise location of the following quote? s?tr?rtho var?yate yatra v?kyai? s?tr?nus?ribhi? | svapad?ni ca var?yante bh??ya? bh??yavido vidu? || My colleague Shilpa Sumant and I had once found this definition in Jayat?rtha's Ny?yasudh?, somewhere after p. 467 in vol. 1 of K.T. Pandurangi's edition (Bangalore, c. 2002-2006); that edition reads s?tr?nuk?ribhi?. But we don't have said edition at hand at the moment and cannot find the quotation anymore. A precise bibliographic reference and, ideally, a scan of the relevant page plus title page, would be greatly appreciated. Arlo Griffiths ?cole fran?aise d'Extr?me-Orient -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mmdesh at umich.edu Thu Aug 27 10:53:02 2015 From: mmdesh at umich.edu (Madhav Deshpande) Date: Thu, 27 Aug 15 06:53:02 -0400 Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_[INDOLOGY]_help_with_Ny=C4=81yasudh=C4=81_quotation?= In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Dear Arlo, In his Sanskrit introduction to the first volume of the Nirnayasagara edition of Pata?jali's Vy?kara?a-Mah?bh??ya (1917, p. 16, fn 5), the editor Shivadatta Kuddala says that this verse is from Par??ara-Upapur??a. The same source is given for the traditional definitions of S?tra and V?rttika. (Kudd?la, Intro, p. 12 and 14). For the definition of S?tra, Kudd?la also refers to Vi???dharmottara (ibid, p. 12). On p. 11 of his Introduction, Kudd?la quotes the following verse from Par??ara-Upapur??a: p??in?ya? mah???stra? padas?dhutvalak?a?am / sarvopak?raka? gr?hya? k?tsna? ty?jya? na ki?cana // >From this it appears that there is a section in the Par??ara-Upapur??a dealing with P??ini, and the definitions of S?tra, V?rttika and Bh??ya likely appear in that section. I don't have a copy of Par??ara-Upapur??a with me at hand, but that is one possible source to check. Hope this helps. Best, Madhav Deshpande On Thu, Aug 27, 2015 at 4:28 AM, Arlo Griffiths wrote: > Dear colleagues, > > Can anyone help me trace the precise location of the following quote? > > s?tr?rtho var?yate yatra v?kyai? s?tr?nus?ribhi? | > svapad?ni ca var?yante bh??ya? bh??yavido vidu? || > > My colleague Shilpa Sumant and I had once found this definition in > Jayat?rtha's Ny?yasudh?, somewhere after p. 467 in vol. 1 of K.T. > Pandurangi's edition (Bangalore, c. 2002-2006); that edition reads > s?tr?nuk?ribhi?. But we don't have said edition at hand at the moment and > cannot find the quotation anymore. > > A precise bibliographic reference and, ideally, a scan of the relevant > page plus title page, would be greatly appreciated. > > Arlo Griffiths > ?cole fran?aise d'Extr?me-Orient > > > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing > committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or > unsubscribe) > -- Madhav M. Deshpande Professor of Sanskrit and Linguistics Department of Asian Languages and Cultures 202 South Thayer Street, Suite 6111 The University of Michigan Ann Arbor, MI 48104-1608, USA -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From krishnaprasadah.g at gmail.com Thu Aug 27 10:57:43 2015 From: krishnaprasadah.g at gmail.com (Krishnaprasad G) Date: Thu, 27 Aug 15 16:27:43 +0530 Subject: =?utf-8?Q?[INDOLOGY]_Fwd:__help_with_Ny=C4=81yasudh=C4=81_quotation?= Message-ID: ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Krishnaprasad G Date: Thu, Aug 27, 2015 at 2:18 PM Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] help with Ny?yasudh? quotation To: Arlo Griffiths The source you have mentioned is correct On Aug 27, 2015 2:07 PM, krishnaprasadah.g at gmail.com wrote: You have given the correct source On Aug 27, 2015 1:59 PM, "Arlo Griffiths" wrote: Dear colleagues, Can anyone help me trace the precise location of the following quote? s?tr?rtho var?yate yatra v?kyai? s?tr?nus?ribhi? | svapad?ni ca var?yante bh??ya? bh??yavido vidu? || My colleague Shilpa Sumant and I had once found this definition in Jayat?rtha's Ny?yasudh?, somewhere after p. 467 in vol. 1 of K.T. Pandurangi's edition (Bangalore, c. 2002-2006); that edition reads s?tr?nuk?ribhi?. But we don't have said edition at hand at the moment and cannot find the quotation anymore. A precise bibliographic reference and, ideally, a scan of the relevant page plus title page, would be greatly appreciated. Arlo Griffiths ?cole fran?aise d'Extr?me-Orient _______________________________________________ INDOLOGY mailing list INDOLOGY at list.indology.info indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: IMG-20150827-WA0000.jpeg Type: image/jpeg Size: 952840 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: IMG-20150827-WA0002.jpeg Type: image/jpeg Size: 1031906 bytes Desc: not available URL: From christophe.vielle at uclouvain.be Thu Aug 27 12:14:55 2015 From: christophe.vielle at uclouvain.be (Christophe Vielle) Date: Thu, 27 Aug 15 14:14:55 +0200 Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_[INDOLOGY]_help_with_Ny=C4=81yasudh=C4=81_quotation?= In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <9AB9559D-748F-41FE-9BE1-B3BB19BF62A3@uclouvain.be> I would be interested by a reference (which one is given by Kuddala?) to an edition of the Par??ara-Upapur??a. The Par??ara-(Upa)pur??a, Par??ara-prokta / Par??arokta / P?r??ar(y)a (Upapur??a) occurs in several lists of upapur??a (see R. C. Hazra Studies in the Upapur??as vol. 1, 1958, pp. 4-12), but Hazra, who should have deal with it in the 3rd unpublished vol. of his "Studies" (the one on the ?aiva upap.), does not give any reference nor comment on it, except the following footnote in vol. 1 p. 5 : "Thus the Par??ara-upapur??a seems to be distinguished from the Vi??u-p. or the spurious 'Vai??ava' (mentioned by Vall?lasena in his D?nas?gara, p. 7, verse 63), which was spoken out by Par??ara". Through the EPB on-line (slip below), I see that a critical edition of the text was prepared but I don't think it was achieved. Author Gangadharan, N[ates] Title A brief note on the Par??arapur??a Language Engl. Published In: Pur??a 25,1, January 1983, p. 44-47 Description Concise remarks on contents, extent, ?ivaite character, and upapur??a nature of the Par??arapur??a. Announces "a critical edition and analysis" of the text. The new Catalogus catalogorum seems to account for about fifty manuscripts of this Pur??a. (F) Now I see through WorldCat that there is at least this edition by Kapiladeva Tripa?t?hi?: Pa?ra?s?aropapura?n?am (sami?ks?a?tmakam? sampa?danam), Va?ra?n?asi? : Sampu?rn?a?nanda Sam?skr?ta Vis?vavidya?laya, 1990. Sarasvati?bhavana-adhyayanama?la?, 40. Le 27 ao?t 2015 ? 12:53, Madhav Deshpande a ?crit : > Dear Arlo, > > In his Sanskrit introduction to the first volume of the Nirnayasagara edition of Pata?jali's Vy?kara?a-Mah?bh??ya (1917, p. 16, fn 5), the editor Shivadatta Kuddala says that this verse is from Par??ara-Upapur??a. The same source is given for the traditional definitions of S?tra and V?rttika. (Kudd?la, Intro, p. 12 and 14). For the definition of S?tra, Kudd?la also refers to Vi???dharmottara (ibid, p. 12). On p. 11 of his Introduction, Kudd?la quotes the following verse from Par??ara-Upapur??a: > p??in?ya? mah???stra? padas?dhutvalak?a?am / > sarvopak?raka? gr?hya? k?tsna? ty?jya? na ki?cana // > From this it appears that there is a section in the Par??ara-Upapur??a dealing with P??ini, and the definitions of S?tra, V?rttika and Bh??ya likely appear in that section. > > I don't have a copy of Par??ara-Upapur??a with me at hand, but that is one possible source to check. Hope this helps. Best, > > Madhav Deshpande > > On Thu, Aug 27, 2015 at 4:28 AM, Arlo Griffiths wrote: > Dear colleagues, > > Can anyone help me trace the precise location of the following quote? > > s?tr?rtho var?yate yatra v?kyai? s?tr?nus?ribhi? | > svapad?ni ca var?yante bh??ya? bh??yavido vidu? || > > My colleague Shilpa Sumant and I had once found this definition in Jayat?rtha's Ny?yasudh?, somewhere after p. 467 in vol. 1 of K.T. Pandurangi's edition (Bangalore, c. 2002-2006); that edition reads s?tr?nuk?ribhi?. But we don't have said edition at hand at the moment and cannot find the quotation anymore. > > A precise bibliographic reference and, ideally, a scan of the relevant page plus title page, would be greatly appreciated. > > Arlo Griffiths > ?cole fran?aise d'Extr?me-Orient > > > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) > > > > -- > Madhav M. Deshpande > Professor of Sanskrit and Linguistics > Department of Asian Languages and Cultures > 202 South Thayer Street, Suite 6111 > The University of Michigan > Ann Arbor, MI 48104-1608, USA > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) ??????????????????? Christophe Vielle Louvain-la-Neuve -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mmdesh at umich.edu Thu Aug 27 13:56:36 2015 From: mmdesh at umich.edu (Madhav Deshpande) Date: Thu, 27 Aug 15 09:56:36 -0400 Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_[INDOLOGY]_help_with_Ny=C4=81yasudh=C4=81_quotation?= In-Reply-To: <9AB9559D-748F-41FE-9BE1-B3BB19BF62A3@uclouvain.be> Message-ID: The source of Kudd?la for his statements in his Intro to Pata?jali's Mahabh??ya must be statements found in Vaidyan?tha P?yagu??e's commentary Ch?ya on N?ge?a's Uddyota. All these quotes are found in the introductory verses of Ch?ya (Vol 1, Vy?kara?a-Mah?bh??ya, ed. Shivadatta Kaddala, Nirnayasagara, 1917, p2), where Vaidyan?tha refers to Par??araPur??a, and Vi??udharmottara. I found an edition of Par??ara-Upapur??a on the website of MAHARISHI UNIVERSITY OF MANAGEMENT VEDIC LITERATURE COLLECTION. I have attached the pdf here. All the passages cited by Kudd?la and Vaidyan?tha's Ch?y? are found in this edition. I am giving detailed references below: p??in?ya? mah???stra? padas?dhutvalak?a?am /ad vi?vatomukham sarvopak?raka? gr?hyam k?tsna? ty?jya? na ki?cana // Verse 29, Adhy?ya 8, p. 22 alp?k?aramasandigdha? s?ravad vi?vatomukham / astobham anavadya? ca s?tra? s?travido vidu? // Verse 13cd 14ab, Adhy?ya 18, p. 63 s?tr?rtho var?yate yatra v?kyai? s?tr?nuk?ribhi? / svapad?ni ca var?yante bh??yam bh??yavido vidu? // Verse 15cd 16ab, Adhy?ya 18, p. 63 ukt?nuktadurukt?n?? cint? yatra pravartate / ta? grantha? v?rttika? pr?hur v?rttikaj?? man??i?a? // Verse 19cd 20ab, Adhy?ya 18, p. 63 Madhav Deshpande On Thu, Aug 27, 2015 at 8:14 AM, Christophe Vielle < christophe.vielle at uclouvain.be> wrote: > I would be interested by a reference (which one is given by Kuddala?) to > an edition of the Par??ara-Upapur??a. > The Par??ara-(Upa)pur??a, Par??ara-prokta / Par??arokta / P?r??ar(y)a > (Upapur??a) occurs in several lists of *upapur??a *(see R. C. Hazra *Studies > in the Upapur??as* vol. 1, 1958, pp. 4-12), but Hazra, who should have > deal with it in the 3rd unpublished vol. of his "Studies" (the one on the > *?aiva* upap.), does not give any reference nor comment on it, except the > following footnote in vol. 1 p. 5 : "Thus the Par??ara-upapur??a seems to > be distinguished from the Vi??u-p. or the spurious 'Vai??ava' (mentioned by > Vall?lasena in his D?nas?gara, p. 7, verse 63), which was spoken out by > Par??ara". > Through the EPB on-line (slip below), I see that a critical edition of the > text was prepared but I don't think it was achieved. > > AuthorGangadharan, N[ates] TitleA brief note on the Par??arapur??a > LanguageEngl. PublishedIn: Pur??a 25,1, January 1983, p. 44-47 DescriptionConcise > remarks on contents, extent, ?ivaite character, and *upapur??a* nature of > the Par??arapur??a. Announces "a critical edition and analysis" of the > text. The new Catalogus catalogorum seems to account for about fifty > manuscripts of this Pur??a. (F) > > Now I see through WorldCat that there is at least this edition by Kapiladeva > Tripa?t?hi? > > : Pa?ra?s?aropapura?n?am (sami?ks?a?tmakam? sampa?danam), Va?ra?n?asi? : > Sampu?rn?a?nanda Sam?skr?ta Vis?vavidya?laya, 1990. > Sarasvati?bhavana-adhyayanama?la? > , > 40. > > > > Le 27 ao?t 2015 ? 12:53, Madhav Deshpande a ?crit : > > Dear Arlo, > > In his Sanskrit introduction to the first volume of the Nirnayasagara > edition of Pata?jali's Vy?kara?a-Mah?bh??ya (1917, p. 16, fn 5), the editor > Shivadatta Kuddala says that this verse is from Par??ara-Upapur??a. The > same source is given for the traditional definitions of S?tra and V?rttika. > (Kudd?la, Intro, p. 12 and 14). For the definition of S?tra, Kudd?la also > refers to Vi???dharmottara (ibid, p. 12). On p. 11 of his Introduction, > Kudd?la quotes the following verse from Par??ara-Upapur??a: > p??in?ya? mah???stra? padas?dhutvalak?a?am / > sarvopak?raka? gr?hya? k?tsna? ty?jya? na ki?cana // > From this it appears that there is a section in the Par??ara-Upapur??a > dealing with P??ini, and the definitions of S?tra, V?rttika and Bh??ya > likely appear in that section. > > I don't have a copy of Par??ara-Upapur??a with me at hand, but that is > one possible source to check. Hope this helps. Best, > > Madhav Deshpande > > On Thu, Aug 27, 2015 at 4:28 AM, Arlo Griffiths > wrote: > >> Dear colleagues, >> >> Can anyone help me trace the precise location of the following quote? >> >> s?tr?rtho var?yate yatra v?kyai? s?tr?nus?ribhi? | >> svapad?ni ca var?yante bh??ya? bh??yavido vidu? || >> >> My colleague Shilpa Sumant and I had once found this definition in >> Jayat?rtha's Ny?yasudh?, somewhere after p. 467 in vol. 1 of K.T. >> Pandurangi's edition (Bangalore, c. 2002-2006); that edition reads >> s?tr?nuk?ribhi?. But we don't have said edition at hand at the moment and >> cannot find the quotation anymore. >> >> A precise bibliographic reference and, ideally, a scan of the relevant >> page plus title page, would be greatly appreciated. >> >> Arlo Griffiths >> ?cole fran?aise d'Extr?me-Orient >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> INDOLOGY mailing list >> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info >> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing >> committee) >> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or >> unsubscribe) >> > > > > -- > Madhav M. Deshpande > Professor of Sanskrit and Linguistics > Department of Asian Languages and Cultures > 202 South Thayer Street, Suite 6111 > The University of Michigan > Ann Arbor, MI 48104-1608, USA > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing > committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or > unsubscribe) > > > ??????????????????? > Christophe Vielle > Louvain-la-Neuve > > -- Madhav M. Deshpande Professor of Sanskrit and Linguistics Department of Asian Languages and Cultures 202 South Thayer Street, Suite 6111 The University of Michigan Ann Arbor, MI 48104-1608, USA -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Parasara_purana.pdf Type: application/pdf Size: 272012 bytes Desc: not available URL: From christophe.vielle at uclouvain.be Thu Aug 27 14:44:29 2015 From: christophe.vielle at uclouvain.be (Christophe Vielle) Date: Thu, 27 Aug 15 16:44:29 +0200 Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_[INDOLOGY]_help_with_Ny=C4=81yasudh=C4=81_quotation?= In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Thank you - the .pdf informs us at the end that it is based on the edition of Kapiladeva Tripa?t?hi? (1990). Le 27 ao?t 2015 ? 15:56, Madhav Deshpande a ?crit : > The source of Kudd?la for his statements in his Intro to Pata?jali's Mahabh??ya must be statements found in Vaidyan?tha P?yagu??e's commentary Ch?ya on N?ge?a's Uddyota. All these quotes are found in the introductory verses of Ch?ya (Vol 1, Vy?kara?a-Mah?bh??ya, ed. Shivadatta Kaddala, Nirnayasagara, 1917, p2), where Vaidyan?tha refers to Par??araPur??a, and Vi??udharmottara. > I found an edition of Par??ara-Upapur??a on the website of MAHARISHI UNIVERSITY OF MANAGEMENT VEDIC LITERATURE COLLECTION. I have attached the pdf here. All the passages cited by Kudd?la and Vaidyan?tha's Ch?y? are found in this edition. I am giving detailed references below: > > p??in?ya? mah???stra? padas?dhutvalak?a?am /ad vi?vatomukham > sarvopak?raka? gr?hyam k?tsna? ty?jya? na ki?cana // > Verse 29, Adhy?ya 8, p. 22 > > alp?k?aramasandigdha? s?ravad vi?vatomukham / > astobham anavadya? ca s?tra? s?travido vidu? // > Verse 13cd 14ab, Adhy?ya 18, p. 63 > > s?tr?rtho var?yate yatra v?kyai? s?tr?nuk?ribhi? / > svapad?ni ca var?yante bh??yam bh??yavido vidu? // > Verse 15cd 16ab, Adhy?ya 18, p. 63 > > ukt?nuktadurukt?n?? cint? yatra pravartate / > ta? grantha? v?rttika? pr?hur v?rttikaj?? man??i?a? // > Verse 19cd 20ab, Adhy?ya 18, p. 63 > > Madhav Deshpande > > On Thu, Aug 27, 2015 at 8:14 AM, Christophe Vielle wrote: > I would be interested by a reference (which one is given by Kuddala?) to an edition of the Par??ara-Upapur??a. > The Par??ara-(Upa)pur??a, Par??ara-prokta / Par??arokta / P?r??ar(y)a (Upapur??a) occurs in several lists of upapur??a (see R. C. Hazra Studies in the Upapur??as vol. 1, 1958, pp. 4-12), but Hazra, who should have deal with it in the 3rd unpublished vol. of his "Studies" (the one on the ?aiva upap.), does not give any reference nor comment on it, except the following footnote in vol. 1 p. 5 : "Thus the Par??ara-upapur??a seems to be distinguished from the Vi??u-p. or the spurious 'Vai??ava' (mentioned by Vall?lasena in his D?nas?gara, p. 7, verse 63), which was spoken out by Par??ara". > Through the EPB on-line (slip below), I see that a critical edition of the text was prepared but I don't think it was achieved. > > > Author Gangadharan, N[ates] > Title A brief note on the Par??arapur??a > Language Engl. > Published In: Pur??a 25,1, January 1983, p. 44-47 > Description Concise remarks on contents, extent, ?ivaite character, and upapur??a nature of the Par??arapur??a. Announces "a critical edition and analysis" of the text. The new Catalogus catalogorum seems to account for about fifty manuscripts of this Pur??a. (F) > > Now I see through WorldCat that there is at least this edition by Kapiladeva Tripa?t?hi?: Pa?ra?s?aropapura?n?am (sami?ks?a?tmakam? sampa?danam), Va?ra?n?asi? : Sampu?rn?a?nanda Sam?skr?ta Vis?vavidya?laya, 1990. Sarasvati?bhavana-adhyayanama?la?, 40. > > > > Le 27 ao?t 2015 ? 12:53, Madhav Deshpande a ?crit : > >> Dear Arlo, >> >> In his Sanskrit introduction to the first volume of the Nirnayasagara edition of Pata?jali's Vy?kara?a-Mah?bh??ya (1917, p. 16, fn 5), the editor Shivadatta Kuddala says that this verse is from Par??ara-Upapur??a. The same source is given for the traditional definitions of S?tra and V?rttika. (Kudd?la, Intro, p. 12 and 14). For the definition of S?tra, Kudd?la also refers to Vi???dharmottara (ibid, p. 12). On p. 11 of his Introduction, Kudd?la quotes the following verse from Par??ara-Upapur??a: >> p??in?ya? mah???stra? padas?dhutvalak?a?am / >> sarvopak?raka? gr?hya? k?tsna? ty?jya? na ki?cana // >> From this it appears that there is a section in the Par??ara-Upapur??a dealing with P??ini, and the definitions of S?tra, V?rttika and Bh??ya likely appear in that section. >> >> I don't have a copy of Par??ara-Upapur??a with me at hand, but that is one possible source to check. Hope this helps. Best, >> >> Madhav Deshpande >> >> On Thu, Aug 27, 2015 at 4:28 AM, Arlo Griffiths wrote: >> Dear colleagues, >> >> Can anyone help me trace the precise location of the following quote? >> >> s?tr?rtho var?yate yatra v?kyai? s?tr?nus?ribhi? | >> svapad?ni ca var?yante bh??ya? bh??yavido vidu? || >> >> My colleague Shilpa Sumant and I had once found this definition in Jayat?rtha's Ny?yasudh?, somewhere after p. 467 in vol. 1 of K.T. Pandurangi's edition (Bangalore, c. 2002-2006); that edition reads s?tr?nuk?ribhi?. But we don't have said edition at hand at the moment and cannot find the quotation anymore. >> >> A precise bibliographic reference and, ideally, a scan of the relevant page plus title page, would be greatly appreciated. >> >> Arlo Griffiths >> ?cole fran?aise d'Extr?me-Orient >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> INDOLOGY mailing list >> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info >> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) >> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) >> >> >> >> -- >> Madhav M. Deshpande >> Professor of Sanskrit and Linguistics >> Department of Asian Languages and Cultures >> 202 South Thayer Street, Suite 6111 >> The University of Michigan >> Ann Arbor, MI 48104-1608, USA >> _______________________________________________ >> INDOLOGY mailing list >> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info >> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) >> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) > > ??????????????????? > Christophe Vielle > Louvain-la-Neuve > > > > > -- > Madhav M. Deshpande > Professor of Sanskrit and Linguistics > Department of Asian Languages and Cultures > 202 South Thayer Street, Suite 6111 > The University of Michigan > Ann Arbor, MI 48104-1608, USA > ??????????????????? Christophe Vielle Louvain-la-Neuve -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From christophe.vielle at uclouvain.be Thu Aug 27 15:21:00 2015 From: christophe.vielle at uclouvain.be (Christophe Vielle) Date: Thu, 27 Aug 15 17:21:00 +0200 Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_[INDOLOGY]_help_with_Ny=C4=81yasudh=C4=81_quotation?= In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <2C6B1B2E-AF81-40AA-A93F-E245F40EE67D@uclouvain.be> In going on the website: http://is1.mum.edu/vedicreserve/ http://is1.mum.edu/vedicreserve/puran.htm and looking at the available texts in .pdf form, it reminds me that three years ago I was contacted by a scholar belonging to this Institute (located in the U.S.A.) who was looking for the lost Varu?opapur??a (also quoted in various lists of upapur??a, but not dealt with in Hazra's work). Finally he found one Telugu manuscript of the text in GOML Madras, on the basis of which has been produced the devanagari version (no. 12) posted on the page (which constitutes the only available edition). Le 27 ao?t 2015 ? 16:44, Christophe Vielle a ?crit : > Thank you - the .pdf informs us at the end that it is based on the edition of Kapiladeva Tripa?t?hi? (1990). > > Le 27 ao?t 2015 ? 15:56, Madhav Deshpande a ?crit : > >> The source of Kudd?la for his statements in his Intro to Pata?jali's Mahabh??ya must be statements found in Vaidyan?tha P?yagu??e's commentary Ch?ya on N?ge?a's Uddyota. All these quotes are found in the introductory verses of Ch?ya (Vol 1, Vy?kara?a-Mah?bh??ya, ed. Shivadatta Kaddala, Nirnayasagara, 1917, p2), where Vaidyan?tha refers to Par??araPur??a, and Vi??udharmottara. >> I found an edition of Par??ara-Upapur??a on the website of MAHARISHI UNIVERSITY OF MANAGEMENT VEDIC LITERATURE COLLECTION. I have attached the pdf here. All the passages cited by Kudd?la and Vaidyan?tha's Ch?y? are found in this edition. I am giving detailed references below: >> >> p??in?ya? mah???stra? padas?dhutvalak?a?am /ad vi?vatomukham >> sarvopak?raka? gr?hyam k?tsna? ty?jya? na ki?cana // >> Verse 29, Adhy?ya 8, p. 22 >> >> alp?k?aramasandigdha? s?ravad vi?vatomukham / >> astobham anavadya? ca s?tra? s?travido vidu? // >> Verse 13cd 14ab, Adhy?ya 18, p. 63 >> >> s?tr?rtho var?yate yatra v?kyai? s?tr?nuk?ribhi? / >> svapad?ni ca var?yante bh??yam bh??yavido vidu? // >> Verse 15cd 16ab, Adhy?ya 18, p. 63 >> >> ukt?nuktadurukt?n?? cint? yatra pravartate / >> ta? grantha? v?rttika? pr?hur v?rttikaj?? man??i?a? // >> Verse 19cd 20ab, Adhy?ya 18, p. 63 >> >> Madhav Deshpande >> >> On Thu, Aug 27, 2015 at 8:14 AM, Christophe Vielle wrote: >> I would be interested by a reference (which one is given by Kuddala?) to an edition of the Par??ara-Upapur??a. >> The Par??ara-(Upa)pur??a, Par??ara-prokta / Par??arokta / P?r??ar(y)a (Upapur??a) occurs in several lists of upapur??a (see R. C. Hazra Studies in the Upapur??as vol. 1, 1958, pp. 4-12), but Hazra, who should have deal with it in the 3rd unpublished vol. of his "Studies" (the one on the ?aiva upap.), does not give any reference nor comment on it, except the following footnote in vol. 1 p. 5 : "Thus the Par??ara-upapur??a seems to be distinguished from the Vi??u-p. or the spurious 'Vai??ava' (mentioned by Vall?lasena in his D?nas?gara, p. 7, verse 63), which was spoken out by Par??ara". >> Through the EPB on-line (slip below), I see that a critical edition of the text was prepared but I don't think it was achieved. >> >> >> Author Gangadharan, N[ates] >> Title A brief note on the Par??arapur??a >> Language Engl. >> Published In: Pur??a 25,1, January 1983, p. 44-47 >> Description Concise remarks on contents, extent, ?ivaite character, and upapur??a nature of the Par??arapur??a. Announces "a critical edition and analysis" of the text. The new Catalogus catalogorum seems to account for about fifty manuscripts of this Pur??a. (F) >> >> Now I see through WorldCat that there is at least this edition by Kapiladeva Tripa?t?hi?: Pa?ra?s?aropapura?n?am (sami?ks?a?tmakam? sampa?danam), Va?ra?n?asi? : Sampu?rn?a?nanda Sam?skr?ta Vis?vavidya?laya, 1990. Sarasvati?bhavana-adhyayanama?la?, 40. >> >> >> >> Le 27 ao?t 2015 ? 12:53, Madhav Deshpande a ?crit : >> >>> Dear Arlo, >>> >>> In his Sanskrit introduction to the first volume of the Nirnayasagara edition of Pata?jali's Vy?kara?a-Mah?bh??ya (1917, p. 16, fn 5), the editor Shivadatta Kuddala says that this verse is from Par??ara-Upapur??a. The same source is given for the traditional definitions of S?tra and V?rttika. (Kudd?la, Intro, p. 12 and 14). For the definition of S?tra, Kudd?la also refers to Vi???dharmottara (ibid, p. 12). On p. 11 of his Introduction, Kudd?la quotes the following verse from Par??ara-Upapur??a: >>> p??in?ya? mah???stra? padas?dhutvalak?a?am / >>> sarvopak?raka? gr?hya? k?tsna? ty?jya? na ki?cana // >>> From this it appears that there is a section in the Par??ara-Upapur??a dealing with P??ini, and the definitions of S?tra, V?rttika and Bh??ya likely appear in that section. >>> >>> I don't have a copy of Par??ara-Upapur??a with me at hand, but that is one possible source to check. Hope this helps. Best, >>> >>> Madhav Deshpande >>> >>> On Thu, Aug 27, 2015 at 4:28 AM, Arlo Griffiths wrote: >>> Dear colleagues, >>> >>> Can anyone help me trace the precise location of the following quote? >>> >>> s?tr?rtho var?yate yatra v?kyai? s?tr?nus?ribhi? | >>> svapad?ni ca var?yante bh??ya? bh??yavido vidu? || >>> >>> My colleague Shilpa Sumant and I had once found this definition in Jayat?rtha's Ny?yasudh?, somewhere after p. 467 in vol. 1 of K.T. Pandurangi's edition (Bangalore, c. 2002-2006); that edition reads s?tr?nuk?ribhi?. But we don't have said edition at hand at the moment and cannot find the quotation anymore. >>> >>> A precise bibliographic reference and, ideally, a scan of the relevant page plus title page, would be greatly appreciated. >>> >>> Arlo Griffiths >>> ?cole fran?aise d'Extr?me-Orient >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> INDOLOGY mailing list >>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info >>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) >>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Madhav M. Deshpande >>> Professor of Sanskrit and Linguistics >>> Department of Asian Languages and Cultures >>> 202 South Thayer Street, Suite 6111 >>> The University of Michigan >>> Ann Arbor, MI 48104-1608, USA >>> _______________________________________________ >>> INDOLOGY mailing list >>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info >>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) >>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) >> >> ??????????????????? >> Christophe Vielle >> Louvain-la-Neuve >> >> >> >> >> -- >> Madhav M. Deshpande >> Professor of Sanskrit and Linguistics >> Department of Asian Languages and Cultures >> 202 South Thayer Street, Suite 6111 >> The University of Michigan >> Ann Arbor, MI 48104-1608, USA >> > > ??????????????????? > Christophe Vielle > Louvain-la-Neuve > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) ??????????????????? Christophe Vielle Louvain-la-Neuve -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From will.sweetman at gmail.com Thu Aug 27 22:56:50 2015 From: will.sweetman at gmail.com (Will Sweetman) Date: Fri, 28 Aug 15 10:56:50 +1200 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Texts and bodily metaphors (Fenicio, Trancoso, etc. on the Vedas) In-Reply-To: <1438B4D7-898A-42A3-9931-7D77988A1B59@uclouvain.be> Message-ID: Thanks for these clarifications, Christophe. Gon?alo Fernandes Trancoso's source for his knowledge of the Vedas was Nobili's informant (and convert) ?ivadharma/Bonifacio. ?upanov traced their relationship in *Disputed Mission* and now Margherita Trento has done fascinating further work on them. One notable difference is that Fernandes didn't read Sanskrit, but relied on translations into Tamil. While there's been some debate about how direct Nobili's access was, on the basis of his orthography Caland thought it likely that ?Nobili himself had copied the passages [in Sanskrit] quoted by him, and that these passages were had not been dictated to him by some Brahman? [and therefore] that Nobili has himself drawn his argumentative passages from the Sanskrit texts? (?Roberto de? Nobili and the Sanskrit Language and Literature.? *Acta Orientalia *III (1924): 50?51). Lucena, writing in 1599, used Couto's manuscript (completed in 1597). Best Will On 26 August 2015 at 02:45, Christophe Vielle < christophe.vielle at uclouvain.be> wrote: > Dear Will, > > Here is in Fenicio the relevant passage (differing from the one mentioning *ueda > mantiram* = *veda-mantra*) referring to the four Vedas: [Livro VII, ?1] > p. 150 ed. Charpentier: > "Tem Bram? quoatro cabe?as authoras de quoatro leis [Brahma has four heads > authors of four laws], *ir?a*, *ueressa *[cf. Charpentier p. 251, the > sequence has to be read : *ir?auer *(= *.rgveda*) +* essa* ("T. *e??am* = > *yaj?a*, *yajus*, cp. *Ezour-Vedam*")], *samam*, *edaruna*?", with the > note by Charpentier p. 217-8 (VII n. 2): "Brahmaa and the four vedas: this > is one of the oldest passages in European literature mentioning by name the > different Vedas (cp. on older European lit. dealing with the Vedas [W.] > CALAND *Ontdekkungsgeschiedenis *[*van de Veda*, In: *Verslagen en > Mededeelingen der Koninklijke Akademie van Wetenschappen, Afdeeling > Letterkunde*, Vijfde Reeks, vol. III, pp. 261-334, Amsterdam, 1918 - not > seen]; [Th.] ZACHARIAE *GGA. *[*G?ttingische gelehrte Anzeigen*] 1921 [ > https://archive.org/details/GoettingischeGelehrteAnzeigen1921 ], 148 sq. > (transl. by [H.] HOSTEN *JIH.* [*Journal of Indian History* - not seen] > II, 127 sq.); CHARPENTIER *JIH*. III, 161 sq. [not seen]). Cp. also > VINCENZO MARIA [di S. Caterina da Siena, *Il Viaggio all'Inide Orientali,* > Venetia, 1683] 305 sq.; [E.A.] TERRY *Voyage* [*to East India*, London, > 1777] 329 sq. (very confuse tradition) etc." > > I add in attachment for the list (the English translation by I. Zupanov > (a .pdf publication which was available on-line, linked to the Conference *Portugal > I?ndico* held in Brown University in May 2002) of an extract of the Treatise > (*Tratado*) by Father Gon?alo Fernandes Trancoso s.j. (1541-1621), a > colleague of de Nobili who lived on the Fishery Coast and in Madurai, > dealing also with the four Vedas in more details. The treatise refers > elsewhere to brahmins experts in Girantao (*grantha*), to Vedic texts of > Baudh?yana (*Potuien... doutor grave* "important doctor"), ??val?yana, > Apastamba (Abasten), ?ra.nyaka (Arenako), Yajurveda (Eihirvedao), and to > several Vedic rituals. See J. Wicki, *Die Schrift des P. Gon?alo > Fernandes S.J. ?ber die Brahman**en und Dharma-?astra (Madura 1616)*, > M?nster, 1957, Ver?ffentlichungen des Instituts f?r Missionswissenschaft > der Westf?lischen Wilhelms-Universit?t M?nster Westfalen Hft 6, and by the > same the annotated critical edition of the whole *Tratado do Pe Gon?alo > Fernandes Trancoso sobre o hindu?smo, Madur? 1616,* Lisbon: Centro de > Estudos Hist?ricos Ultramarinos, 1973 (cf. also on Trancoso, Sweetman's *Mapping > Hinduism*, pp. 56 sq.) > > About the Marathi version of the Giitaa, the identification attributed to > Zupanov & Barreto Xavier (2015, p. ? - I have not the book yet) was already > made by J. Wicki (cf. *Documenta Indica IV*, Roma, 1958, Monumenta > Historica Societatis Iesu vol. 78, p. 802 fn. 37 of his edition of the > Portuguese original text of the Jesuit 1560 letter, with reference to his > article "Aelteste portugiesische Uebersetzungen aus der Mar?th?-Literatur", > In: *Neue Zeitschrift f?r Missionswissenschaft *11, 1955, p. 145; cf. > also Halbfass 1988, pp. 37, 464). > > Best wishes, > Christophe > > Le 13 ao?t 2015 ? 01:49, Will Sweetman a ?crit : > > Thanks, all, for your comments. > > Christophe ? I think Fenicio mentions the term Veda only in relation to a > Vedic mantra recited while consuming panchagavya (I think - I have only my > notes on Charpentier's edition (does anyone have a pdf?), which in any case > according to Paolo Aranha omits a large part of the original ms). But Ludo > Rocher argues (*Puranas*, 1986: 11) that Fenicio's primary sources were > puranic, and that this is even made explicit in the title of a Latin > translation of Fenicio: *Collectio omnium dogmatum & arcanorum ex Puranis > seu libris Canonicis paganorum Indianorum*... > > Part of my argument in the article I'm preparing is that despite many > references to the Vedas as the most authoritative Indian sacred texts, > other texts were almost invariably the actual source. Azevedo, for > instance, having mentioned the Vedas as the original texts then goes on to > cite exclusively Tamil sources (*Tirumantiram*, *Tiruv?cakam*, *Tiv?karam*, > *Tirukku?a?* and another Tamil text on caste). > > Thanks also for the references to the texts acquired by the Jesuits > (stolen on their behalf by a convert, it appears) in the 1550s. On the > basis of fragments of translations of these done by the convert (a Brahmin > baptised as Manuel Olivera) which were sent to Europe and are extant in > Portugal and Goa, Ines Zupanov and Angela Barreto Xavier have identified > these as J??ne?vara?s Marathi version of Bhagavad-G?t?, a purana by N?mdev, > and parts of the Mah?bh?rata. Also in Portugal are three manuscripts > containing parts of the Mah?bh?rata and R?may??a in Konkani prose and > Marathi verse, transliterated into Roman script by Jesuits around the same > period. I think there is likely some connection here, but I'm not aware of > anyone who's explored it. > > Best wishes > > Will > > > On 12 August 2015 at 20:25, Christophe Vielle < > christophe.vielle at uclouvain.be> wrote: > >> Thank you for this reference (with Gered?o rendering grantha). >> >> So (I have not here the book at hand), nothing on the Vedas in J. >> Fenicio's work (1609? He arrived in India in 1584) ? (cf. *The Livro da >> Seita dos Indios Orientais (Brit. Mus. MS. Sloane 1820) of Father Jacobo >> Fenicio , s.j.*, edited with and introduction and notes by Jarl >> Charpentier, Uppsala : Almqvist & Wiksells, 1933, Arbeten utgivna med >> undest?d av Vilhelm Ekmans Universitetsfond 40). >> >> Note that the (Bhagavad-)G?t? (with the Avadh?ta-G?t?) is already >> presented and discussed as the most sacred book of the brahmins in a Jesuit >> letter of 1560. >> See https://books.google.be/books?id=qP87AAAAcAAJ >> pp. 376 sq. ("Guitaa & Detatriaa") (cf. Charpentier p. xliv) >> >> Best wishes, >> >> Christophe Vielle >> >> Le 11 ao?t 2015 ? 02:03, Will Sweetman a ?crit >> : >> >> Dear all >> >> I'm working on some early European accounts of the Vedas including what I >> think is the very first reference to the Vedas in a European text. This was >> published in Couto's *Da Asia,* but is in fact taken from another work >> written by an Augustinian friar Agostinho de Azevedo in 1603. Azevedo (in >> my translation) says that the Brahmins: >> >> "have many books in their Latin, which they call Gered?o which contain >> everything they are to believe, and all the ceremonies they are to perform. >> These books are divided into bodies [corpos], limbs [membros] and joints >> [articulos], whose originals are those they call Veados, which are divided >> into four parts, and these further into fifty-two parts in the following >> manner: six which they call Xastra, which are the bodies, eighteen which >> they call Purana, which are the limbs, twenty-eight called Agamon which are >> the joints." >> >> This formulation, with variations, is repeated in many subsequent >> European sources. The terms for the divisions (corpos,membros, articulos), >> which are not so often repeated, have usually been translated more >> literally as bodies, members and articles (or articulations). >> >> I'm curious as to whether anyone is aware of an Indian source which uses >> these metaphors. I'm aware, of course of the Ved??gas, but I think the six >> here are clearly meant to be the ??stras/dar?anas. This may indicate some >> muddling?or sheer invention?on Azevedo's part, but in other instances I've >> found it best to look first for an Indian source or idea an early European >> writer may be following rather than immediately assuming error or >> invention, so I'd welcome any leads and/or comments on translating membros >> as limbs and articulos as joints. "Articles" for the latter seems to me to >> be a particularly unilluminating translation. >> >> Best >> >> Will >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> INDOLOGY mailing list >> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info >> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing >> committee) >> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or >> unsubscribe) >> >> >> ??????????????????? >> Christophe Vielle >> Louvain-la-Neuve >> >> > > ??????????????????? > Christophe Vielle > Louvain-la-Neuve > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From karp at uw.edu.pl Fri Aug 28 22:23:21 2015 From: karp at uw.edu.pl (Artur Karp) Date: Sat, 29 Aug 15 00:23:21 +0200 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Princess Niwal Dai - a query Message-ID: Dear Colleagues, Sir Richard Temple published the legend of Niwal Dai ("as sung by two scavengers from Bibiyal village near Ambala") in the 1st Volume of his monumental The Legends of the Punjab (1882, pp. 418-528; reprint 1962, Language Department, Punjab, Patiala). I am not aware of any work devoted to this legend. Am I right in suspecting that this text has not aroused interest among Indian folklore specialists? Is there, by any chance, a new - and possible richer - version of the text? Hindi? Panjabi? A new translation? Yours sincerely, Artur Karp Senior Lecturer in Sanskrit and Pali (ret.) South Asian Studies Deptt Oriental Faculty University of Warsaw Poland -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From alanus1216 at yahoo.com Fri Aug 28 22:27:22 2015 From: alanus1216 at yahoo.com (Allen Thrasher) Date: Fri, 28 Aug 15 22:27:22 +0000 Subject: training in poetic composition in traditional Sanskrit education? Message-ID: <433632671.2377578.1440800842298.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> >From reading about traditional (Early Modern and Modern) Western training in Latin and Greek, in which composition was an important part, I am led to wonder if it was standard in traditional Sanskritic education for students to be assigned to compose verse, either the basic Zloka for expository works or more elaborate kavya. ?Any thoughts or evidence. Allen -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mmdesh at umich.edu Fri Aug 28 22:46:47 2015 From: mmdesh at umich.edu (Madhav Deshpande) Date: Fri, 28 Aug 15 18:46:47 -0400 Subject: [INDOLOGY] training in poetic composition in traditional Sanskrit education? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Dear Allen, In Pune, we were positively encouraged to compose verses in Sanskrit. My highschool Sanskrit teacher, Pandit N. N. Bhide, routinely asked us to translate from Marathi into Sanskrit verse. The Tilak Maharashtra Vidyapith used to hold various annual competitions on the occasion of Vy?sap?j? including story-telling, verse-composition, quick memorization, Sanskrit debate etc. So, composing verses in Sanskrit was encouraged in Pune, not only in the more traditional institutions, but also in modern institutions like the S. P. College and Fergusson College. Several of our teachers used to compose poems in Sanskrit and publish them in the local Sanskrit journals like ??rad? and Bh?ratav???, and also in the annual magazines of Fergusson College etc. I am describing my historical experience, but some of these activities are continuing into modern times as well. Madhav On Fri, Aug 28, 2015 at 6:30 PM, Allen Thrasher via INDOLOGY < indology at list.indology.info> wrote: > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing > committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or > unsubscribe) > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > From: Allen Thrasher > To: Indology List > Cc: > Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2015 22:27:22 +0000 (UTC) > Subject: training in poetic composition in traditional Sanskrit education? > From reading about traditional (Early Modern and Modern) Western training > in Latin and Greek, in which composition was an important part, I am led to > wonder if it was standard in traditional Sanskritic education for students > to be assigned to compose verse, either the basic Zloka for expository > works or more elaborate kavya. Any thoughts or evidence. > > Allen > > -- Madhav M. Deshpande Professor of Sanskrit and Linguistics Department of Asian Languages and Cultures 202 South Thayer Street, Suite 6111 The University of Michigan Ann Arbor, MI 48104-1608, USA -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rsalomon at u.washington.edu Sat Aug 29 00:07:32 2015 From: rsalomon at u.washington.edu (Richard Salomon) Date: Fri, 28 Aug 15 17:07:32 -0700 Subject: [INDOLOGY] training in poetic composition in traditional Sanskrit education? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <55E0F7C4.1060405@u.washington.edu> Dear Allen, I seem to remember that there is some material about composing or imitating verses as training exercises for would-be poets in Rajasekhara's Kavyamimamsa (and/or in related works). Sorry for the vague reference! Rich On 8/28/2015 3:46 PM, Madhav Deshpande wrote: > Dear Allen, > > In Pune, we were positively encouraged to compose verses in > Sanskrit. My highschool Sanskrit teacher, Pandit N. N. Bhide, routinely > asked us to translate from Marathi into Sanskrit verse. The Tilak > Maharashtra Vidyapith used to hold various annual competitions on the > occasion of Vy?sap?j? including story-telling, verse-composition, quick > memorization, Sanskrit debate etc. So, composing verses in Sanskrit was > encouraged in Pune, not only in the more traditional institutions, but > also in modern institutions like the S. P. College and Fergusson > College. Several of our teachers used to compose poems in Sanskrit and > publish them in the local Sanskrit journals like ??rad? and Bh?ratav???, > and also in the annual magazines of Fergusson College etc. I am > describing my historical experience, but some of these activities are > continuing into modern times as well. > > Madhav > > On Fri, Aug 28, 2015 at 6:30 PM, Allen Thrasher via INDOLOGY > > wrote: > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info > (messages to the list's > managing committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list > options or unsubscribe) > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > From: Allen Thrasher > > To: Indology List > > Cc: > Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2015 22:27:22 +0000 (UTC) > Subject: training in poetic composition in traditional Sanskrit > education? > From reading about traditional (Early Modern and Modern) Western > training in Latin and Greek, in which composition was an important > part, I am led to wonder if it was standard in traditional > Sanskritic education for students to be assigned to compose verse, > either the basic Zloka for expository works or more elaborate > kavya. Any thoughts or evidence. > > Allen > > > > > -- > Madhav M. Deshpande > Professor of Sanskrit and Linguistics > Department of Asian Languages and Cultures > 202 South Thayer Street, Suite 6111 > The University of Michigan > Ann Arbor, MI 48104-1608, USA > > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) > -- ---------------------- Richard Salomon Department of Asian Languages and Literature University of Washington, Box 353521 Seattle WA 98195-3521 USA From karp at uw.edu.pl Sat Aug 29 04:36:36 2015 From: karp at uw.edu.pl (Artur Karp) Date: Sat, 29 Aug 15 06:36:36 +0200 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Princess Niwal Dai - a query In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Sorry. "The Legends of the Punjab" is the title of the Patiala reprint. The title of the original Bombay/London edition (1884!) is "The Legends of the Panj?b". Artur 2015-08-29 0:23 GMT+02:00 Artur Karp : > Dear Colleagues, > > Sir Richard Temple published the legend of Niwal Dai ("as sung by two > scavengers from Bibiyal village near Ambala") in the 1st Volume of his > monumental The Legends of the Punjab (1882, pp. 418-528; reprint 1962, > Language Department, Punjab, Patiala). > > I am not aware of any work devoted to this legend. Am I right in > suspecting that this text has not aroused interest among Indian folklore > specialists? > > Is there, by any chance, a new - and possible richer - version of the > text? Hindi? Panjabi? A new translation? > > Yours sincerely, > > Artur Karp > > Senior Lecturer in Sanskrit and Pali (ret.) > South Asian Studies Deptt > Oriental Faculty > University of Warsaw > Poland > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dipak.d2004 at gmail.com Sat Aug 29 07:32:09 2015 From: dipak.d2004 at gmail.com (Dipak Bhattacharya) Date: Sat, 29 Aug 15 13:02:09 +0530 Subject: [INDOLOGY] training in poetic composition in traditional Sanskrit education? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Till the sixties it was expected of undergraduate and post-graduate students of Calcutta to write their answers in Sanskrit at the examination. This started at the higher secondary level in the explanation of Sanskrit verses. Some took to English but writing in one?s mother tongue did not create good impression. In the Departmental magazines of the undergraduate classes Sanskrit compositions were encouraged under the supervision of a teacher towards the development of skill. Philological deliberation was not encouraged. Poems or articles singing to the glory of Sanskrit, apart from secular poetic compositions, were welcomed. An article by me was revised by Pandit Sitaram Shastri (Mithila) as it did not contain sufficient ?m?h?tmyak?rtana? of Sanskrit. I made additions that made it acceptable. Writing answers in Sanskrit had been the convention but was not compulsory. It was supposed to be a mark of distinction and it paid by way of relatively favorable assessment. The emphasis was greater in the post-graduate classes. Later, under vigorous political emphasis on the mother tongue, it became the practice to write answers in one?s mother tongue. The earlier enterprise petered out. Sorry for a long lecture. I request forgiveness. Best DB On Sat, Aug 29, 2015 at 4:00 AM, Allen Thrasher via INDOLOGY < indology at list.indology.info> wrote: > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing > committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or > unsubscribe) > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > From: Allen Thrasher > To: Indology List > Cc: > Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2015 22:27:22 +0000 (UTC) > Subject: training in poetic composition in traditional Sanskrit education? > From reading about traditional (Early Modern and Modern) Western training > in Latin and Greek, in which composition was an important part, I am led to > wonder if it was standard in traditional Sanskritic education for students > to be assigned to compose verse, either the basic Zloka for expository > works or more elaborate kavya. Any thoughts or evidence. > > Allen > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From laurie.patton at duke.edu Sat Aug 29 10:46:37 2015 From: laurie.patton at duke.edu (Prof Laurie Patton, Ph.D.) Date: Sat, 29 Aug 15 10:46:37 +0000 Subject: [INDOLOGY] training in poetic composition in traditional Sanskrit education? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <8B546C6D-F24B-4612-8A2E-6F74EE63B1FB@duke.edu> Greetings all. You can find a state by state list of contemporary publishers of such compositions and other forms of Sanskrit writing here: http://sanskritdocuments.org/news/SanskritNewspapersandMagazines.html I published a mediocre poem in Gunjarava, a small journal in Ahmednagar, Maharashtra, in 2004. Laurie Patton On Aug 29, 2015, at 03:32, Dipak Bhattacharya > wrote: Till the sixties it was expected of undergraduate and post-graduate students of Calcutta to write their answers in Sanskrit at the examination. This started at the higher secondary level in the explanation of Sanskrit verses. Some took to English but writing in one's mother tongue did not create good impression. In the Departmental magazines of the undergraduate classes Sanskrit compositions were encouraged under the supervision of a teacher towards the development of skill. Philological deliberation was not encouraged. Poems or articles singing to the glory of Sanskrit, apart from secular poetic compositions, were welcomed. An article by me was revised by Pandit Sitaram Shastri (Mithila) as it did not contain sufficient 'm?h?tmyak?rtana' of Sanskrit. I made additions that made it acceptable. Writing answers in Sanskrit had been the convention but was not compulsory. It was supposed to be a mark of distinction and it paid by way of relatively favorable assessment. The emphasis was greater in the post-graduate classes. Later, under vigorous political emphasis on the mother tongue, it became the practice to write answers in one's mother tongue. The earlier enterprise petered out. Sorry for a long lecture. I request forgiveness. Best DB On Sat, Aug 29, 2015 at 4:00 AM, Allen Thrasher via INDOLOGY > wrote: _______________________________________________ INDOLOGY mailing list INDOLOGY at list.indology.info indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Allen Thrasher > To: Indology List > Cc: Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2015 22:27:22 +0000 (UTC) Subject: training in poetic composition in traditional Sanskrit education? >From reading about traditional (Early Modern and Modern) Western training in Latin and Greek, in which composition was an important part, I am led to wonder if it was standard in traditional Sanskritic education for students to be assigned to compose verse, either the basic Zloka for expository works or more elaborate kavya. Any thoughts or evidence. Allen _______________________________________________ INDOLOGY mailing list INDOLOGY at list.indology.info indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mmdesh at umich.edu Sat Aug 29 12:34:39 2015 From: mmdesh at umich.edu (Madhav Deshpande) Date: Sat, 29 Aug 15 08:34:39 -0400 Subject: [INDOLOGY] training in poetic composition in traditional Sanskrit education? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: While many Sanskritists from Pune have been writing in Sanskrit (prose and poetry), some of the more noteworthy writers are (Late) K. S. Arjunwadkar (poetry: Ka??ak??jali), (Late) G.B. Palsule (many Sanskrit dramas, translations from Marathi, and the epic poem V?ravain?yakam on the life of Savarkar), (late) P.S. Joshi (Bh?m?yanam, epic poem on the life of Ambedkar), (late) S.D. Joshi (Sanskrit translation of Hamlet). Madhav Deshpande On Fri, Aug 28, 2015 at 6:46 PM, Madhav Deshpande wrote: > Dear Allen, > > In Pune, we were positively encouraged to compose verses in > Sanskrit. My highschool Sanskrit teacher, Pandit N. N. Bhide, routinely > asked us to translate from Marathi into Sanskrit verse. The Tilak > Maharashtra Vidyapith used to hold various annual competitions on the > occasion of Vy?sap?j? including story-telling, verse-composition, quick > memorization, Sanskrit debate etc. So, composing verses in Sanskrit was > encouraged in Pune, not only in the more traditional institutions, but also > in modern institutions like the S. P. College and Fergusson College. > Several of our teachers used to compose poems in Sanskrit and publish them > in the local Sanskrit journals like ??rad? and Bh?ratav???, and also in the > annual magazines of Fergusson College etc. I am describing my historical > experience, but some of these activities are continuing into modern times > as well. > > Madhav > > On Fri, Aug 28, 2015 at 6:30 PM, Allen Thrasher via INDOLOGY < > indology at list.indology.info> wrote: > >> _______________________________________________ >> INDOLOGY mailing list >> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info >> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing >> committee) >> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or >> unsubscribe) >> >> ---------- Forwarded message ---------- >> From: Allen Thrasher >> To: Indology List >> Cc: >> Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2015 22:27:22 +0000 (UTC) >> Subject: training in poetic composition in traditional Sanskrit education? >> From reading about traditional (Early Modern and Modern) Western training >> in Latin and Greek, in which composition was an important part, I am led to >> wonder if it was standard in traditional Sanskritic education for students >> to be assigned to compose verse, either the basic Zloka for expository >> works or more elaborate kavya. Any thoughts or evidence. >> >> Allen >> >> > > > -- > Madhav M. Deshpande > Professor of Sanskrit and Linguistics > Department of Asian Languages and Cultures > 202 South Thayer Street, Suite 6111 > The University of Michigan > Ann Arbor, MI 48104-1608, USA > -- Madhav M. Deshpande Professor of Sanskrit and Linguistics Department of Asian Languages and Cultures 202 South Thayer Street, Suite 6111 The University of Michigan Ann Arbor, MI 48104-1608, USA -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From nakeerthi at gmail.com Sat Aug 29 17:01:03 2015 From: nakeerthi at gmail.com (naresh keerthi) Date: Sat, 29 Aug 15 22:31:03 +0530 Subject: [INDOLOGY] training in poetic composition in traditional Sanskrit education? Message-ID: Ksemendra's text the Kavi-kanThA'bharaNa is an important manual of kavi-zikSA. He lays out rules about how the aspiring poet should read the compositions of past masters, cultivate an ear and a palate for good poetry - both in form and content; and prevent the malodour of sanctimony [and VedA'bhyAsa] from wilting the sprout that may have started sprouting in his heart. I am unable to recollect the verse. It is interesting how he recommends not just high Sanskrit poetry, but also poetry in Prakrt and the vernaculars [please note his use of the term deza-bhASA to refer to the latter] - gIteSu gAthAsv'atha deza-bhASA- kavyeSu dadyAt saraseSu karNam | vAcAm camatkAra-vidhayinInAm navArtha-carcAsu rucim vyadadhyAT || 17 || Rajashekhara too has a chapter on training in poetry. There is 13th century manual of poetry, Kavya-kalpa-latA by Arisimha, completed by Amaracandra yati. John Cortin his book 'Jain Communities in Indian History' says something to the effect that jaina writers dominate the scene in writing (systematic) texts on poetics and rhetoric, especially those that emphasise kavi-zikSA, or training in the art of poetry. In the modern context, as Prof Deshpande pointed out, students are encouraged to try their hand at versifying - not just to get a grip over metric templates but to develop a sense for idiomatic language, and to get a nuts-and-bolts picture of the various rhetoric and poetic elements of language. Colleges and schools conduct competitions for the composition of such poetry. A session of impromptu poetry recitation is often part of the vidvat-sadas - symposia hosted by Religious Mutts. The central Sahitya Academy has restarted the journal SamskRta Pratibha, which had a long run in the hands of Prof V.Raghavan. It is a bit disheartening to see some of the poetry that is featured in it now - the verses are blank both in metric structure and poetic content. Radio and National TV [Doordarshan] sometimes host gathering of poets, where they are encouraged to compose and discuss verses on particular topics. I too have had occasion to participate in such events, and share my feeble attempts at Sanskrit poetry. Best Regards, Naresh Keerthi, National Institute of Advanced Studies, Bangalore - 12 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From nakeerthi at gmail.com Sat Aug 29 17:23:50 2015 From: nakeerthi at gmail.com (naresh keerthi) Date: Sat, 29 Aug 15 22:53:50 +0530 Subject: [INDOLOGY] training in poetic composition in traditional Sanskrit education? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: There was a slip in my previous message. The note on Jaina rhetorcians that I attributed to John Cort, is in a essay by Gary Tubb, in the volume edited by the former. I am sorry for the misattribution. Best, Naresh Keerthi On 29 August 2015 at 22:31, naresh keerthi wrote: > > Ksemendra's text the Kavi-kanThA'bharaNa is an important manual of > kavi-zikSA. He lays out rules about how the aspiring poet should read the > compositions of past masters, cultivate an ear and a palate for good poetry > - both in form and content; and prevent the malodour of sanctimony [and > VedA'bhyAsa] from wilting the sprout that may have started sprouting in his > heart. I am unable to recollect the verse. > > It is interesting how he recommends not just high Sanskrit poetry, but > also poetry in Prakrt and the vernaculars [please note his use of the term > deza-bhASA to refer to the latter] - > > gIteSu gAthAsv'atha deza-bhASA- kavyeSu dadyAt saraseSu karNam | > vAcAm camatkAra-vidhayinInAm navArtha-carcAsu rucim vyadadhyAT || 17 || > > Rajashekhara too has a chapter on training in poetry. There is 13th > century manual of poetry, Kavya-kalpa-latA by Arisimha, completed by > Amaracandra yati. > > John Cortin his book 'Jain Communities in Indian History' says something > to the effect that jaina writers dominate the scene in writing (systematic) > texts on poetics and rhetoric, especially those that emphasise kavi-zikSA, > or training in the art of poetry. > > In the modern context, as Prof Deshpande pointed out, students are > encouraged to try their hand at versifying - not just to get a grip over > metric templates but to develop a sense for idiomatic language, and to get > a nuts-and-bolts picture of the various rhetoric and poetic elements of > language. > > Colleges and schools conduct competitions for the composition of such > poetry. A session of impromptu poetry recitation is often part of the > vidvat-sadas - symposia hosted by Religious Mutts. > > The central Sahitya Academy has restarted the journal SamskRta Pratibha, > which had a long run in the hands of Prof V.Raghavan. It is a bit > disheartening to see some of the poetry that is featured in it now - the > verses are blank both in metric structure and poetic content. > > Radio and National TV [Doordarshan] sometimes host gathering of poets, > where they are encouraged to compose and discuss verses on particular > topics. I too have had occasion to participate in such events, and share > my feeble attempts at Sanskrit poetry. > > > Best Regards, > Naresh Keerthi, > National Institute of Advanced Studies, > Bangalore - 12 > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From filipsky at rzone.cz Mon Aug 31 14:25:12 2015 From: filipsky at rzone.cz (=?utf-8?Q?Jan_Filipsk=C3=BD?=) Date: Mon, 31 Aug 15 16:25:12 +0200 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Ceylon / SL Branch RAS_Paper Sought Message-ID: <21b601d0e3f8$d91bd9a0$8b538ce0$@rzone.cz> Dear All, Is there a chance of finding a list member able and willing to share the paper KALASURIYA, A. S. ?Regional Independence and Elite Change in the Politics of 14th Century Sri Lanka?. JRAS(CB), 1976 (2), pp. 136?55. That is the reference I have, though, technically speaking, the journal appeared between 1972 and 1986/87 (New Series, Vols.16?31) as Journal of the Sri Lanka Branch of the RAS. I would be very grafeful for your generous assistance in locating the article or at least supplying an e-mail address of the present Royal Asiatic Society of Sri Lanka, Colombo . Best, Jan Filipsky -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From r.mahoney at indica-et-buddhica.org Mon Aug 31 20:26:50 2015 From: r.mahoney at indica-et-buddhica.org (Richard Mahoney) Date: Tue, 01 Sep 15 08:26:50 +1200 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Ceylon / SL Branch RAS_Paper Sought In-Reply-To: <21b601d0e3f8$d91bd9a0$8b538ce0$@rzone.cz> Message-ID: <55E4B88A.1080505@indica-et-buddhica.org> Dear Jan, I you're considering using good old fashioned interloan the holdings in German institutes can be found here: Indica et Buddhica Scholia ~ Zeitschriftendatenbank (ZDB) http://scholia.indica-et-buddhica.org/search/zdb.sch?attribute=@attr%201=1007&query=12732035&displayform=2&num=1&start=1 or shorter: http://bit.ly/1O4dG4C And for further details: Journal of the Ceylon Branch of the Royal Asiatic Society http://indica-et-buddhica.org/tabulae/j/journal-of-the-ceylon-branch-of-the-royal-asiatic-society Best, Richard On 9/1/2015 02:25, Jan Filipsk? wrote: > Dear All, > > Is there a chance of finding a list member able and willing to share > the paper > > KALASURIYA, A. S. > > ?Regional Independence and Elite Change in the Politics of 14th > Century Sri Lanka?. JRAS(CB), 1976 (2), pp. 136?55. > > That is the reference I have, though, technically speaking, the > journal appeared between 1972 and 1986/87 (New Series, Vols.16?31) as > Journal of the Sri Lanka Branch of the RAS. > > I would be very grafeful for your generous assistance in locating > the article or at least supplying an e-mail address of the present > Royal Asiatic Society of Sri Lanka, Colombo . > > Best, > > Jan Filipsky -- Richard Mahoney Littledene Bay Road Oxford NZ M: +64-21-064-0216 T: +64-3-312-1699 r.mahoney at indica-et-buddhica.org -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 473 bytes Desc: not available URL: