From mmcclish at bsc.edu Wed Apr 1 01:27:09 2015 From: mmcclish at bsc.edu (McClish, Mark Richard) Date: Wed, 01 Apr 15 01:27:09 +0000 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Postdocs in Global, Comparative or International Affairs Message-ID: Dear Colleagues, The following opportunity may be of interest to some of you. http://buffett.northwestern.edu/funding-grants/postdoctoral-fellowships.html Best, Mark McClish Assistant Professor of Religion Birmingham-Southern College -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cchl2 at cam.ac.uk Thu Apr 2 14:58:31 2015 From: cchl2 at cam.ac.uk (Charles Li) Date: Thu, 02 Apr 15 15:58:31 +0100 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Bodhisatta vs. the Big Stick Message-ID: <551D5917.6010903@cam.ac.uk> Dear all, I recently made a short film about a story in the Pali Jatakas featuring Margaret Cone, whom some of you might know. It premiered at the Cambridge Science Festival at the beginning of March and is now available on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DprKj8OXCq4&list=PLoEBu2Q8ia_OwPszaJFmkI1SFVj5d5oB7&index=11 Hope you enjoy it. Charles From hspier.muktabodha at gmail.com Thu Apr 2 19:25:58 2015 From: hspier.muktabodha at gmail.com (Harry Spier) Date: Thu, 02 Apr 15 15:25:58 -0400 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Resources for learning Newari script Message-ID: Dear list members, Does anyone know of any resources for learning Newari Script Thanks, Harry Spier -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Michael.Slouber at wwu.edu Thu Apr 2 19:35:06 2015 From: Michael.Slouber at wwu.edu (Michael Slouber) Date: Thu, 02 Apr 15 19:35:06 +0000 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Resources for learning Newari script In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I used Rabison Shakya?s useful little book *Alphabet of the Nepalese Script.* It teaches several important Nepalese scripts, including Newari. It may be hard to come by outside of Nepal, but you could borrow it from a library: http://www.worldcat.org/oclc/53206053 ?? Michael Slouber Assistant Professor of South Asia Department of Liberal Studies Western Washington University On ???? ?????? ?, at ??:?? ????? ????????, Harry Spier > wrote: Dear list members, Does anyone know of any resources for learning Newari Script Thanks, Harry Spier _______________________________________________ INDOLOGY mailing list INDOLOGY at list.indology.info http://listinfo.indology.info -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mkapstei at uchicago.edu Thu Apr 2 19:45:53 2015 From: mkapstei at uchicago.edu (Matthew Kapstein) Date: Thu, 02 Apr 15 19:45:53 +0000 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Resources for learning Newari script In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <82C3E42590D939418C74DD76B97DDED0374F77C5@xm-mbx-04-prod.ad.uchicago.edu> Another useful volume is Hemr?j ??kya's Nep?la-lipi-prak??a (Kathmandu: Nep?la R?jak?ya Praj?? Prati??h?na, Vikram Sa?vat 2030 [=1974]). The Hathi Trust record is here: http://catalog.hathitrust.org/Record/007872735 good luck! Matthew Kapstein Directeur d'?tudes, Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes Numata Visiting Professor of Buddhist Studies, The University of Chicago ________________________________ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From hspier.muktabodha at gmail.com Thu Apr 2 21:44:11 2015 From: hspier.muktabodha at gmail.com (Harry Spier) Date: Thu, 02 Apr 15 17:44:11 -0400 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Resources for learning Newari script In-Reply-To: <82C3E42590D939418C74DD76B97DDED0374F77C5@xm-mbx-04-prod.ad.uchicago.edu> Message-ID: Thank you to Matthew Kapstein and Michael Slouber. Harry Spier On Thu, Apr 2, 2015 at 3:45 PM, Matthew Kapstein wrote: > Another useful volume is Hemr?j ??kya's Nep?la-lipi-prak??a (Kathmandu: > Nep?la R?jak?ya Praj?? > Prati??h?na, Vikram Sa?vat 2030 [=1974]). > The Hathi Trust record is here: > http://catalog.hathitrust.org/Record/007872735 > > good luck! > > Matthew Kapstein > Directeur d'?tudes, > Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes > > Numata Visiting Professor of Buddhist Studies, > The University of Chicago > ------------------------------ > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From hspier.muktabodha at gmail.com Thu Apr 2 21:45:56 2015 From: hspier.muktabodha at gmail.com (Harry Spier) Date: Thu, 02 Apr 15 17:45:56 -0400 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Accessing the NGMCP title list Message-ID: Dear list members, I tried to access the NGMCP catalogue title list through this link from their website: http://catalogue.ngmcp.uni-hamburg.de/ but it gives me "page unavailable". Is there another link to the title list that works. Thanks, Harry Spier -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From hspier.muktabodha at gmail.com Thu Apr 2 22:11:05 2015 From: hspier.muktabodha at gmail.com (Harry Spier) Date: Thu, 02 Apr 15 18:11:05 -0400 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Accessing the NGMCP title list In-Reply-To: <56F23CC4-5B49-4746-8949-B30AD1939943@uni-hamburg.de> Message-ID: Thanks Kengo but when I click on the "Online Title List" icon which is link "http://catalogue.ngmcp.uni-hamburg.de:3000/" it still gives me "could not connect to server". Thanks, Harry Spier On Thu, Apr 2, 2015 at 6:01 PM, Kengo Harimoto wrote: > Should be fine now. > > -- > Kengo Harimoto > > > On Apr 2, 2015, at 23:45, Harry Spier > wrote: > > > > Dear list members, > > > > I tried to access the NGMCP catalogue title list through this link from > their website: > > http://catalogue.ngmcp.uni-hamburg.de/ > > > > but it gives me "page unavailable". Is there another link to the title > list that works. > > > > Thanks, > > Harry Spier > > _______________________________________________ > > INDOLOGY mailing list > > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > > http://listinfo.indology.info > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From w.t.douglas at abdn.ac.uk Thu Apr 2 22:35:02 2015 From: w.t.douglas at abdn.ac.uk (Dr. Will Tuladhar-Douglas) Date: Fri, 03 Apr 15 06:35:02 +0800 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Resources for learning Newari script In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <9A1F9D0C-3BE7-410B-8038-96D7B1447BF6@abdn.ac.uk> Harry, One of the best references for Newa lipi is in Manandhar and Leinhard's catalogue of the Nepalese manuscripts held at Berlin. I'm at a conference right now and don't have access to the volume or a scan, but the introductory chapter there is an invaluable resource for understanding the script and dating of Newar materials and it includes scans of actual aksaras, rather than the ideal types that modern Newar pandits tend to draw in their teaching manuals. If you look at this together with Hemraj's book it's a good start. Lienhard, Siegfried, and Thakur Lal Manandhar. 1988. Nepalese Manuscripts. Part 1: Nev?r? and Sanskrit (in The) Staatsbibliothek Preussischer Kulturbesitz, Berlin. Verzeichnis Der Orientalischen Handschriften in Deutschland XXXIII,1. Stuttgart: Franz Steiner Verlag. Good luck! Be well, ?WBTD. > On 3 Apr 2015, at 03:25, Harry Spier wrote: > > Dear list members, > > Does anyone know of any resources for learning Newari Script > > Thanks, > Harry Spier - - -- --- ----- -------- ------------- Will Tuladhar Douglas Senior Lecturer, Environments and Religions University of Aberdeen http://tending.to/garden -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From kauzeya at gmail.com Fri Apr 3 14:17:21 2015 From: kauzeya at gmail.com (Jonathan Silk) Date: Fri, 03 Apr 15 16:17:21 +0200 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Brahmi in a Babylonian Inscription?? In-Reply-To: <5519E323.2030202@u.washington.edu> Message-ID: A final note, in reference to Rich's comment. As the colleague who brought this question to my attention pointed out, the tablet was excavated and the writing (for it is certainly writing) was inscribed while the clay was still wet (as Harry Falk clearly pointed out), so there is no question here of a fake: it is rather some writing in an as yet undeciphered script, just not, alas, Br?hm? (I say 'alas' since this would then be a [more or less] datable instance of Br?hm? not only from outside India but pre-A?okan -- this was all too much to hope for!) best thanks for the advice to all, Jonathan On Tue, Mar 31, 2015 at 1:58 AM, Richard Salomon wrote: > I remember looking at this long ago and dismissing it (as did H. Falk) as > nothing Indic, and probably a fake. > > Rich Salomonm > > > On 3/30/2015 12:01 PM, Dominik Wujastyk wrote: > >> Those who don't have access to the Bobrinskoy 1936 article can check >> online . ? >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ INDOLOGY mailing >> list INDOLOGY at list.indology.info http://listinfo.indology.info >> >> > -- > ---------------------- > > Richard Salomon > Department of Asian Languages and Literature > University of Washington, Box 353521 > Seattle WA 98195-3521 > USA > > > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > http://listinfo.indology.info > -- J. Silk Leiden University Leiden University Institute for Area Studies, LIAS Matthias de Vrieshof 3, Room 0.05b 2311 BZ Leiden The Netherlands copies of my publications may be found at http://www.buddhismandsocialjustice.com/silk_publications.html -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From martin.gansten at pbhome.se Sat Apr 4 08:13:42 2015 From: martin.gansten at pbhome.se (Martin Gansten) Date: Sat, 04 Apr 15 10:13:42 +0200 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Tukaram and the name Tuka Message-ID: <551F9D36.5060401@pbhome.se> In my researches into T?jika or Sanskritized Perso-Arabic astrology I've come across the name of an author not mentioned in any of David Pingree's works, a Tuka Jyotirvid. I'd never heard the name Tuka before and was wondering whether it could possibly be a Sanskrit version of a Persian name; but that seems unlikely, given that Tuka Jyotirvid wrote a work in Sanskrit verse. Then I thought of Sant Tuk?r?m, whose name I presume is a compound (of either tuk? + r?ma or tuka + ?r?ma). I'd be glad of any information on the first member of this name: geographical and linguistic origins, meaning, caste or other social/religious connotations, etc. Above all, are people still called Tuk(a)/Tuk?, or do we at least know of any historical person by that or a similar name other than Tuk?r?m? Many thanks in advance, and apologies for cross-posting. Martin Gansten From wujastyk at gmail.com Sat Apr 4 11:34:38 2015 From: wujastyk at gmail.com (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Sat, 04 Apr 15 13:34:38 +0200 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Stackexchange area for Sanskrit teachers being launched Message-ID: ?In case it is of interest, see - http://area51.stackexchange.com/proposals/85860/sanskrit-language just launched today. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From martin.gansten at pbhome.se Sat Apr 4 13:43:50 2015 From: martin.gansten at pbhome.se (Martin Gansten) Date: Sat, 04 Apr 15 15:43:50 +0200 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Tukaram and the name Tuka In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <551FEA96.7040907@pbhome.se> Thank you, Madhav. I'm not sure if your reply reached the Indology list, so I'm copying it below. I find it prompts two more questions: first, whether Tuk? was a common name before the time of Tuk?r?m, or whether people bearing the name today are largely named after him. (Or perhaps after the goddess -- is it a name used by both sexes?) And second, whether any Dravidian scholar on the list can confirm or deny the development ?ukra > tukka (in one or more Dravidian languages -- I'm not sure the same sound laws apply everywhere). 'My' author is typically called Tuka, with a single k and short a. In one place, however, I did notice the Devan?gar? spelling Tuvaka, where I suspect the -vaka may be a misreading for -kka (which in some forms of the ligature would look very similar). Martin Gansten Madhav Deshpande wrote: > Tuk?/Tuk?r?m is still a common personal name in Marathi. While the > origin of the name Tuk? is not quite clear, there is a popular goddess > in Maharashtra named Tu?j? Bhav?n?, also known as Tuk?i (Tuk? + ?i), > where "?i" is the Marathi word for mother, and the first part "Tuk?" > in her name is explained traditionally as being made up of "tu" (you) > + "k?" (why), and there is a story saying someone asked this goddess > "why did you come, O Mother", which gave her the name Tuk?i. Another > explanation I have heard is that "tukka" is the Dravidian form of > Sanskrit ?ukra, and since Friday (?ukrav?ra) is auspicious for this > goddess, she came to be known as Tukk?i. While this may not be a true > historical explanation of the name Tuk?i, the name of this goddess may > have made the name Tuk? popular in Maharashtra. > > Madhav Deshpande From hspier.muktabodha at gmail.com Sat Apr 4 15:14:10 2015 From: hspier.muktabodha at gmail.com (Harry Spier) Date: Sat, 04 Apr 15 11:14:10 -0400 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Resources for learning Newari script In-Reply-To: <9A1F9D0C-3BE7-410B-8038-96D7B1447BF6@abdn.ac.uk> Message-ID: Thank you to Michael Slouber, Matthew Kapstein, Michael Witzel, Will Tuladhar-Douglas and Tim Lubin for their very useful information. Regards, Harry Spier On Thu, Apr 2, 2015 at 6:35 PM, Dr. Will Tuladhar-Douglas < w.t.douglas at abdn.ac.uk> wrote: > Harry, > > One of the best references for Newa lipi is in Manandhar and Leinhard's > catalogue of the Nepalese manuscripts held at Berlin. I'm at a conference > right now and don't have access to the volume or a scan, but the > introductory chapter there is an invaluable resource for understanding the > script and dating of Newar materials and it includes scans of actual > aksaras, rather than the ideal types that modern Newar pandits tend to draw > in their teaching manuals. If you look at this together with Hemraj's book > it's a good start. > > Lienhard, Siegfried, and Thakur Lal Manandhar. 1988. *Nepalese > Manuscripts. Part 1: Nev?r? and Sanskrit (in The) Staatsbibliothek > Preussischer Kulturbesitz, Berlin*. Verzeichnis Der Orientalischen > Handschriften in Deutschland XXXIII,1. Stuttgart: Franz Steiner Verlag. > > Good luck! > > Be well, > > ?WBTD. > > > > On 3 Apr 2015, at 03:25, Harry Spier wrote: > > Dear list members, > > Does anyone know of any resources for learning Newari Script > > Thanks, > Harry Spier > > > > > - - -- --- ----- -------- ------------- > Will Tuladhar Douglas > Senior Lecturer, Environments and Religions > University of Aberdeen > http://tending.to/garden > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ashok.aklujkar at gmail.com Sat Apr 4 17:52:57 2015 From: ashok.aklujkar at gmail.com (Ashok Aklujkar) Date: Sat, 04 Apr 15 10:52:57 -0700 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Tukaram and the name Tuka In-Reply-To: <551FEA96.7040907@pbhome.se> Message-ID: I think Marathi tuk?/tukaa is related to Skt (stoka -->) toka, meaning 'little one, child'. The final vowel has been lengthened in Tukaa-raama as in several other Marathi names aatmaaraama (<-- aatma(n) + raama), dattaaraama (<-- datta + raama), raajaaraama (<-- raaja(n) + raama), ;saantaaraama (<-- ;saanta + raama), perhaps also sakhaaraama (<-- sakha <-- sakhi(n) + raama), baataarama (<-- baat(a) + raama), thaapaaraama (<-- thaap(a) + raama) and ma:ngaaraama/ma:nghaaraama. Semantically, the formation of Tukaa-raama, meaning 'Little/young/younger Raama", would be similar to that in: Hindi "Cho.taalaala/Cho.telaala", English "Little Johny?, etc. I think it is more likely that the name of the sant(a)/saint has made the name Tukaa-raama popular, not the name of the deity Tukaa.ii. a.a. > On Apr 4, 2015, at 6:43 AM, Martin Gansten wrote: > > ... two more questions: first, whether Tuk? was a common name before the time of Tuk?r?m, or whether people bearing the name today are largely named after him. (Or perhaps after the goddess -- is it a name used by both sexes?) And second, whether any Dravidian scholar on the list can confirm or deny the development ?ukra > tukka (in one or more Dravidian languages -- I'm not sure the same sound laws apply everywhere). > > 'My' author is typically called Tuka, with a single k and short a. In one place, however, I did notice the Devan?gar? spelling Tuvaka, where I suspect the -vaka may be a misreading for -kka (which in some forms of the ligature would look very similar). > > Madhav Deshpande wrote: >> Tuk?/Tuk?r?m is still a common personal name in Marathi. While the origin of the name Tuk? is not quite clear, there is a popular goddess in Maharashtra named Tu?j? Bhav?n?, also known as Tuk?i (Tuk? + ?i), where "?i" is the Marathi word for mother, and the first part "Tuk?" in her name is explained traditionally as being made up of "tu" (you) + "k?" (why), and there is a story saying someone asked this goddess "why did you come, O Mother", which gave her the name Tuk?i. Another explanation I have heard is that "tukka" is the Dravidian form of Sanskrit ?ukra, and since Friday (?ukrav?ra) is auspicious for this goddess, she came to be known as Tukk?i. While this may not be a true historical explanation of the name Tuk?i, the name of this goddess may have made the name Tuk? popular in Maharashtra. From nagarajpaturi at gmail.com Sat Apr 4 19:30:31 2015 From: nagarajpaturi at gmail.com (Nagaraj Paturi) Date: Sun, 05 Apr 15 01:00:31 +0530 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Tukaram and the name Tuka Message-ID: In Dravidian, at least in Telugu, the word chukka, at least in one of the usages, vEguchukka, is derived from s'ukra. -- Prof.Nagaraj Paturi Hyderabad-500044 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From nagarajpaturi at gmail.com Sat Apr 4 19:38:37 2015 From: nagarajpaturi at gmail.com (Nagaraj Paturi) Date: Sun, 05 Apr 15 01:08:37 +0530 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Tukaram and the name Tuka Message-ID: The word tukA in the name tukArAm is with a long A only. The short version of the name is found as tukA only in expressions such as tukA mhaNE in many signature potions (mudra) of his lyrics. -- Prof.Nagaraj Paturi Hyderabad-500044 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Palaniappa at aol.com Sat Apr 4 21:54:35 2015 From: Palaniappa at aol.com (Sudalaimuthu Palaniappan) Date: Sat, 04 Apr 15 16:54:35 -0500 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Tukaram and the name Tuka In-Reply-To: <551FEA96.7040907@pbhome.se> Message-ID: When Sanskrit words are borrowed into Tamil, the cluster -kra- can sometimes be simplified as -kka-. See Tamil Lexicon entry below: ????????? cakkav?lar, n. < cakrav?la. Devas residing in Mt. Cakkarav??a; ???????? ????????????????? ??????? ????????. (???????. 574.) As for ?- > t-, we have the possible case of ?r? > Tiru. But, I do not know of any word Ta. tukka < Skt. ?ukra per se. On the other hand, we have Skt. Durg? > Ta. Tukkai as in the Tamil Lexicon entry below. ??????? tukkai, n. < Durg?. Durg?; ????????. ??????????? ???????????. (S. I. I. i, 91). Is it possible the name of the goddess was a similar Dravidianized form of Skt. Durg?, which was later re-interpreted as Tuk?i? It will be interesting to know how Kannada naturalized ?Durg??. Regards, Palaniappan > On Apr 4, 2015, at 8:43 AM, Martin Gansten wrote: > > Thank you, Madhav. I'm not sure if your reply reached the Indology list, so I'm copying it below. I find it prompts two more questions: first, whether Tuk? was a common name before the time of Tuk?r?m, or whether people bearing the name today are largely named after him. (Or perhaps after the goddess -- is it a name used by both sexes?) And second, whether any Dravidian scholar on the list can confirm or deny the development ?ukra > tukka (in one or more Dravidian languages -- I'm not sure the same sound laws apply everywhere). > > 'My' author is typically called Tuka, with a single k and short a. In one place, however, I did notice the Devan?gar? spelling Tuvaka, where I suspect the -vaka may be a misreading for -kka (which in some forms of the ligature would look very similar). > > Martin Gansten > > > Madhav Deshpande wrote: >> Tuk?/Tuk?r?m is still a common personal name in Marathi. While the origin of the name Tuk? is not quite clear, there is a popular goddess in Maharashtra named Tu?j? Bhav?n?, also known as Tuk?i (Tuk? + ?i), where "?i" is the Marathi word for mother, and the first part "Tuk?" in her name is explained traditionally as being made up of "tu" (you) + "k?" (why), and there is a story saying someone asked this goddess "why did you come, O Mother", which gave her the name Tuk?i. Another explanation I have heard is that "tukka" is the Dravidian form of Sanskrit ?ukra, and since Friday (?ukrav?ra) is auspicious for this goddess, she came to be known as Tukk?i. While this may not be a true historical explanation of the name Tuk?i, the name of this goddess may have made the name Tuk? popular in Maharashtra. >> >> Madhav Deshpande > > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > http://listinfo.indology.info -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Palaniappa at aol.com Sat Apr 4 22:37:24 2015 From: Palaniappa at aol.com (Sudalaimuthu Palaniappan) Date: Sat, 04 Apr 15 17:37:24 -0500 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Tukaram and the name Tuka In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <5DF75D5A-EBDC-4C42-B84D-5ACD081DE7C9@aol.com> I am intrigued by the suggested change in the radical vowel toka > tuka in Marathi, because that is a well-known phenomenon in South Dravidian. Is this type of change seen in many words in Marathi? Also, how about the radical vowel -e- changing to -i-? Thanks Regards, Palaniappan > On Apr 4, 2015, at 12:52 PM, Ashok Aklujkar wrote: > > I think Marathi tuk?/tukaa is related to Skt (stoka -->) toka, meaning 'little one, child'. The final vowel has been lengthened in Tukaa-raama as in several other Marathi names aatmaaraama (<-- aatma(n) + raama), dattaaraama (<-- datta + raama), raajaaraama (<-- raaja(n) + raama), ;saantaaraama (<-- ;saanta + raama), perhaps also sakhaaraama (<-- sakha <-- sakhi(n) + raama), baataarama (<-- baat(a) + raama), thaapaaraama (<-- thaap(a) + raama) and ma:ngaaraama/ma:nghaaraama. > > Semantically, the formation of Tukaa-raama, meaning 'Little/young/younger Raama", would be similar to that in: Hindi "Cho.taalaala/Cho.telaala", English "Little Johny?, etc. > > I think it is more likely that the name of the sant(a)/saint has made the name Tukaa-raama popular, not the name of the deity Tukaa.ii. > > a.a. > > >> On Apr 4, 2015, at 6:43 AM, Martin Gansten wrote: >> >> ... two more questions: first, whether Tuk? was a common name before the time of Tuk?r?m, or whether people bearing the name today are largely named after him. (Or perhaps after the goddess -- is it a name used by both sexes?) And second, whether any Dravidian scholar on the list can confirm or deny the development ?ukra > tukka (in one or more Dravidian languages -- I'm not sure the same sound laws apply everywhere). >> >> 'My' author is typically called Tuka, with a single k and short a. In one place, however, I did notice the Devan?gar? spelling Tuvaka, where I suspect the -vaka may be a misreading for -kka (which in some forms of the ligature would look very similar). >> >> Madhav Deshpande wrote: >>> Tuk?/Tuk?r?m is still a common personal name in Marathi. While the origin of the name Tuk? is not quite clear, there is a popular goddess in Maharashtra named Tu?j? Bhav?n?, also known as Tuk?i (Tuk? + ?i), where "?i" is the Marathi word for mother, and the first part "Tuk?" in her name is explained traditionally as being made up of "tu" (you) + "k?" (why), and there is a story saying someone asked this goddess "why did you come, O Mother", which gave her the name Tuk?i. Another explanation I have heard is that "tukka" is the Dravidian form of Sanskrit ?ukra, and since Friday (?ukrav?ra) is auspicious for this goddess, she came to be known as Tukk?i. While this may not be a true historical explanation of the name Tuk?i, the name of this goddess may have made the name Tuk? popular in Maharashtra. > > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > http://listinfo.indology.info From suresh.kolichala at gmail.com Sun Apr 5 16:38:09 2015 From: suresh.kolichala at gmail.com (Suresh Kolichala) Date: Sun, 05 Apr 15 12:38:09 -0400 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Tukaram and the name Tuka In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Skt. *durg? *> t*ukka > tuka *is an interesting suggestion, Palaniappan. Regarding the vowel metaphony ( *u *> *o*/_*a*), Bright (1966) finds evidence for such non-contiguous vocalic assimilation in non-Dravidian languages of South Asia including Indo-Aryan languages such as Konkani, Bengali, Assamese and Sinhala. There are some Prakrit examples too: *nidr**? *'sleep' > *?edd?. * But the dissimilatory process of reversal of metaphony ( *o* > *u*/_*a*) is only found in Tamil-Malayalam, which I believe was developed as a hyper-correction in the literary dialects of Tamil-Malayalam. I don't believe Ashok Aklujkar was thinking about this vowel dissimilation when he proposed Skt. *stoka *> *toka *> *tuka*. Suresh. On Sat, Apr 4, 2015 at 6:37 PM, Sudalaimuthu Palaniappan via INDOLOGY < indology at list.indology.info> wrote: > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > http://listinfo.indology.info > > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > From: Sudalaimuthu Palaniappan > To: "ashok.aklujkar ashok.aklujkar" > Cc: Martin Gansten , Indology < > indology at list.indology.info> > Date: Sat, 4 Apr 2015 17:37:24 -0500 > Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] Tukaram and the name Tuka > I am intrigued by the suggested change in the radical vowel toka > tuka in > Marathi, because that is a well-known phenomenon in South Dravidian. Is > this type of change seen in many words in Marathi? Also, how about the > radical vowel -e- changing to -i-? > > Thanks > > Regards, > Palaniappan > > > > On Apr 4, 2015, at 12:52 PM, Ashok Aklujkar > wrote: > > > > I think Marathi tuk?/tukaa is related to Skt (stoka -->) toka, meaning > 'little one, child'. The final vowel has been lengthened in Tukaa-raama as > in several other Marathi names aatmaaraama (<-- aatma(n) + raama), > dattaaraama (<-- datta + raama), raajaaraama (<-- raaja(n) + raama), > ;saantaaraama (<-- ;saanta + raama), perhaps also sakhaaraama (<-- sakha > <-- sakhi(n) + raama), baataarama (<-- baat(a) + raama), thaapaaraama (<-- > thaap(a) + raama) and ma:ngaaraama/ma:nghaaraama. > > > > Semantically, the formation of Tukaa-raama, meaning > 'Little/young/younger Raama", would be similar to that in: Hindi > "Cho.taalaala/Cho.telaala", English "Little Johny?, etc. > > > > I think it is more likely that the name of the sant(a)/saint has made > the name Tukaa-raama popular, not the name of the deity Tukaa.ii. > > > > a.a. > > > > > >> On Apr 4, 2015, at 6:43 AM, Martin Gansten > wrote: > >> > >> ... two more questions: first, whether Tuk? was a common name before > the time of Tuk?r?m, or whether people bearing the name today are largely > named after him. (Or perhaps after the goddess -- is it a name used by both > sexes?) And second, whether any Dravidian scholar on the list can confirm > or deny the development ?ukra > tukka (in one or more Dravidian languages > -- I'm not sure the same sound laws apply everywhere). > >> > >> 'My' author is typically called Tuka, with a single k and short a. In > one place, however, I did notice the Devan?gar? spelling Tuvaka, where I > suspect the -vaka may be a misreading for -kka (which in some forms of the > ligature would look very similar). > >> > >> Madhav Deshpande wrote: > >>> Tuk?/Tuk?r?m is still a common personal name in Marathi. While the > origin of the name Tuk? is not quite clear, there is a popular goddess in > Maharashtra named Tu?j? Bhav?n?, also known as Tuk?i (Tuk? + ?i), where > "?i" is the Marathi word for mother, and the first part "Tuk?" in her name > is explained traditionally as being made up of "tu" (you) + "k?" (why), and > there is a story saying someone asked this goddess "why did you come, O > Mother", which gave her the name Tuk?i. Another explanation I have heard is > that "tukka" is the Dravidian form of Sanskrit ?ukra, and since Friday > (?ukrav?ra) is auspicious for this goddess, she came to be known as Tukk?i. > While this may not be a true historical explanation of the name Tuk?i, the > name of this goddess may have made the name Tuk? popular in Maharashtra. > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > INDOLOGY mailing list > > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > > http://listinfo.indology.info > > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From suresh.kolichala at gmail.com Sun Apr 5 18:05:54 2015 From: suresh.kolichala at gmail.com (Suresh Kolichala) Date: Sun, 05 Apr 15 14:05:54 -0400 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Tukaram and the name Tuka In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Nagaraj: I believe the derivation of Telugu *cukka *< Skt. *?ukra *is a folk etymology, although, it is very popular among the Sanskrit pundits of the Telugu land. The word *cukka *in the meaning of "a small drop", "dot" and "star" is found across several Dravidian languages that it is difficult to assume that *?ukra *became *cukka *and then spread into so many of these languages (See [DEDR 2646 ]*)*. Furthermore, beside *v?lucukka (**?????????) *for *?ukra*, Telugu has names for other stars containing *cukka*, such as *v?gucukka *(????????? North Star), *ecakanka?icukka *(???????????? uttar??a?a), *kukkacukka * (??????????=*punarvasu*), kummaras?recukka (??????????????? vi??kh?), it becomes clear the the word *cukka *was generic term for star, and not derived from Sanskrit *?ukra*. Suresh. On Sat, Apr 4, 2015 at 3:30 PM, Nagaraj Paturi wrote: > In Dravidian, at least in Telugu, the word chukka, at least in one of the > usages, vEguchukka, is derived from s'ukra. > > -- > Prof.Nagaraj Paturi > Hyderabad-500044 > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > http://listinfo.indology.info > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From nagarajpaturi at gmail.com Sun Apr 5 18:52:50 2015 From: nagarajpaturi at gmail.com (Nagaraj Paturi) Date: Mon, 06 Apr 15 00:22:50 +0530 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Tukaram and the name Tuka In-Reply-To: Message-ID: The derivation chukka wrote: > Nagaraj: I believe the derivation of Telugu *cukka *< Skt. *?ukra *is a > folk etymology, although, it is very popular among the Sanskrit pundits of > the Telugu land. The word *cukka *in the meaning of "a small drop", "dot" > and "star" is found across several Dravidian languages that it is > difficult to assume that *?ukra *became *cukka *and then spread into so > many of these languages (See [DEDR 2646 > ]*)*. > > Furthermore, beside *v?lucukka (**?????????) *for *?ukra*, Telugu has > names for other stars containing *cukka*, such as *v?gucukka *(????????? > North Star), *ecakanka?icukka *(???????????? uttar??a?a), *kukkacukka * > (??????????=*punarvasu*), kummaras?recukka (??????????????? vi??kh?), it > becomes clear the the word *cukka *was generic term for star, and not > derived from Sanskrit *?ukra*. > > Suresh. > > On Sat, Apr 4, 2015 at 3:30 PM, Nagaraj Paturi > wrote: > >> In Dravidian, at least in Telugu, the word chukka, at least in one of the >> usages, vEguchukka, is derived from s'ukra. >> >> -- >> Prof.Nagaraj Paturi >> Hyderabad-500044 >> >> _______________________________________________ >> INDOLOGY mailing list >> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info >> http://listinfo.indology.info >> > > -- Prof.Nagaraj Paturi Hyderabad-500044 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Palaniappa at aol.com Sun Apr 5 19:54:42 2015 From: Palaniappa at aol.com (Sudalaimuthu Palaniappan) Date: Sun, 05 Apr 15 14:54:42 -0500 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Tukaram and the name Tuka In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Suresh, I do not know Telugu. But I looked at the semantics of the Tamil word ?????? ve??i and related words. You may find the Tamil Lexicon entries below interesting. ??????? ve??i, n. < ????-??. [T. ve??i, K. be??i, M. ve??i.] 1. Whiteness; ??????. ?????? ??????? (?????. 41). 2. Silver, Argentum; ???????????? ??????. (????.) ??????? ?????? ???????? (????. 1646). 3. A silver coin; ?????????????. 4. Star; ???????????. ???????????? ?????????? ??????? ????????? 5. The planet Venus; ??????????? ???? ????. ?????? ????? ?????? ????????? ???????? (?????. 35). 6. ?ukra, the priest of the Asuras; ????????????? ?????????. 7. Friday; ?????????????. ?????? ??????? (?????. 23, 135). 8. An ascetic of Dharmapuram mutt who is said to have made interpolations in many poems, such as Kampa-r?maya?am, Periya-pur??am, etc.; ?????????????????? ???????????????? ????? ???????????? ?????????? ?????? ???????? ????? ????????? ?????????????????? ???? ??????????????? ??? ??????. ??? ?????? ?????. 9. Ignorance; ?????????. ???????? ????? ????????? (??????. ??????. 29). 10. Semen virile; ??????. ?????? ???????? ??????? ?????? (???????. 834). ????? m??, n. < ??????-. [K. m?n.] 1. Star; ???????????. ??????? ??????? ???? (?????, 1116). 2. The 14th nak?atra. See ????????. (????.) 3. The 13th nak?atra. See ??????&sup8;. (??????. 108.) ????? vi?i, n. < ?????-. See ????????. ???? ????????? ????????? (????. ???????. 4, 10, 8). ???????? vi?i-k?lai, n. < ?????- + ?????. Break of day; ?????? ????????? ?????. Colloq. ???????? vi?i-m??, n. < id. + ?????. See ??????????. ???????? ??????? ????? (?????. 17, 12). ?????????? vi?i-ve??i, n. < ????? +. Venus, as the morning star; ??????????? ???????? ?????????. (W.) Regards, Palaniappan > On Apr 5, 2015, at 1:52 PM, Nagaraj Paturi wrote: > > The derivation chukka > chukka = a small drop, dot, star , a dEs'ya (native, not borrowed) word is well known. > > chukka > On Sun, Apr 5, 2015 at 11:35 PM, Suresh Kolichala > wrote: > Nagaraj: I believe the derivation of Telugu cukka < Skt. ?ukra is a folk etymology, although, it is very popular among the Sanskrit pundits of the Telugu land. The word cukka in the meaning of "a small drop", "dot" and "star" is found across several Dravidian languages that it is difficult to assume that ?ukra became cukka and then spread into so many of these languages (See [DEDR 2646 ]). > > Furthermore, beside v?lucukka (?????????) for ?ukra, Telugu has names for other stars containing cukka, such as v?gucukka (????????? North Star), ecakanka?icukka (???????????? uttar??a?a), kukkacukka (??????????=punarvasu), kummaras?recukka (??????????????? vi??kh?), it becomes clear the the word cukka was generic term for star, and not derived from Sanskrit ?ukra. > > Suresh. > > On Sat, Apr 4, 2015 at 3:30 PM, Nagaraj Paturi > wrote: > In Dravidian, at least in Telugu, the word chukka, at least in one of the usages, vEguchukka, is derived from s'ukra. > > -- > Prof.Nagaraj Paturi > Hyderabad-500044 > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > http://listinfo.indology.info > > > > > -- > Prof.Nagaraj Paturi > Hyderabad-500044 > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > http://listinfo.indology.info -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Palaniappa at aol.com Sun Apr 5 20:05:44 2015 From: Palaniappa at aol.com (Sudalaimuthu Palaniappan) Date: Sun, 05 Apr 15 15:05:44 -0500 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Tukaram and the name Tuka In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I forgot to mention DEDR 5475 Ta. ve?i (-v-, -nt-), vi?i (-v-, -nt-) to dawn, break as day; ve?iyal, ve?ivu, vi?i, vi?iyal, vi?ivu, vi?ivai break of day, dawn; ve??a clear, plain; ve??am light; ve??avi?i break of day, early dawn; ve??a-ve?i open plain; ve??a-ve?iccam broad daylight. Ma. ve?ikka the weather to clear up; ve?ippu cleared off, gone; ve??a, ve??am light; ve??a-ve?ivu clearness. ? Ko. vart vi?- (vi?-) day breaks. ? To. ko? f??- (f??-) to dawn; ko?s f??y(k) lamp lit in funeral hut (for ko?s, see 1458). Te. vi?i clearness, transparency, brilliancy; clear, transparent. Malt. bi?yeto shine; bi?e to shoot forth (as rays). DED (S) 4504. Regards, Palaniappan > On Apr 5, 2015, at 2:54 PM, Sudalaimuthu Palaniappan wrote: > > Suresh, > > I do not know Telugu. But I looked at the semantics of the Tamil word ?????? ve??i and related words. You may find the Tamil Lexicon entries below interesting. > > ??????? ve??i, n. < ????-??. [T. ve??i, K. be??i, M. ve??i.] 1. Whiteness; ??????. ?????? ??????? (?????. 41). 2. Silver, Argentum; ???????????? ??????. (????.) ??????? ?????? ???????? (????. 1646). 3. A silver coin; ?????????????. 4. Star; ???????????. ???????????? ?????????? ??????? ????????? 5. The planet Venus; ??????????? ???? ????. ?????? ????? ?????? ????????? ???????? (?????. 35). 6. ?ukra, the priest of the Asuras; ????????????? ?????????. 7. Friday; ?????????????. ?????? ??????? (?????. 23, 135). 8. An ascetic of Dharmapuram mutt who is said to have made interpolations in many poems, such as Kampa-r?maya?am, Periya-pur??am, etc.; ?????????????????? ???????????????? ????? ???????????? ?????????? ?????? ???????? ????? ????????? ?????????????????? ???? ??????????????? ??? ??????. ??? ?????? ?????. 9. Ignorance; ?????????. ???????? ????? ????????? (??????. ??????. 29). 10. Semen virile; ??????. ?????? ???????? ??????? ?????? (???????. 834). > > ????? m??, n. < ??????-. [K. m?n.] 1. Star; ???????????. ??????? ??????? ???? (?????, 1116). 2. The 14th nak?atra. See ????????. (????.) 3. The 13th nak?atra. See ??????&sup8;. (??????. 108.) > > ????? vi?i, n. < ?????-. See ????????. ???? ????????? ????????? (????. ???????. 4, 10, 8). > ???????? vi?i-k?lai, n. < ?????- + ?????. Break of day; ?????? ????????? ?????. Colloq. > ???????? vi?i-m??, n. < id. + ?????. See ??????????. ???????? ??????? ????? (?????. 17, 12). > ?????????? vi?i-ve??i, n. < ????? +. Venus, as the morning star; ??????????? ???????? ?????????. (W.) > > Regards, > Palaniappan > > >> On Apr 5, 2015, at 1:52 PM, Nagaraj Paturi > wrote: >> >> The derivation chukka> >> chukka = a small drop, dot, star , a dEs'ya (native, not borrowed) word is well known. >> >> chukka> >> On Sun, Apr 5, 2015 at 11:35 PM, Suresh Kolichala > wrote: >> Nagaraj: I believe the derivation of Telugu cukka < Skt. ?ukra is a folk etymology, although, it is very popular among the Sanskrit pundits of the Telugu land. The word cukka in the meaning of "a small drop", "dot" and "star" is found across several Dravidian languages that it is difficult to assume that ?ukra became cukka and then spread into so many of these languages (See [DEDR 2646 ]). >> >> Furthermore, beside v?lucukka (?????????) for ?ukra, Telugu has names for other stars containing cukka, such as v?gucukka (????????? North Star), ecakanka?icukka (???????????? uttar??a?a), kukkacukka (??????????=punarvasu), kummaras?recukka (??????????????? vi??kh?), it becomes clear the the word cukka was generic term for star, and not derived from Sanskrit ?ukra. >> >> Suresh. >> >> On Sat, Apr 4, 2015 at 3:30 PM, Nagaraj Paturi > wrote: >> In Dravidian, at least in Telugu, the word chukka, at least in one of the usages, vEguchukka, is derived from s'ukra. >> >> -- >> Prof.Nagaraj Paturi >> Hyderabad-500044 >> >> _______________________________________________ >> INDOLOGY mailing list >> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info >> http://listinfo.indology.info >> >> >> >> >> -- >> Prof.Nagaraj Paturi >> Hyderabad-500044 >> _______________________________________________ >> INDOLOGY mailing list >> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info >> http://listinfo.indology.info -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From arlogriffiths at hotmail.com Mon Apr 6 13:40:02 2015 From: arlogriffiths at hotmail.com (Arlo Griffiths) Date: Mon, 06 Apr 15 13:40:02 +0000 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Indic loanwords in Tibetan Message-ID: Dear colleagues, Please allow me a few questions that possibly do no more than reveal my ignorance. Although I don't know Tibetan, my impression from seeing passages of Tibetan quoted in secondary literature is that Indic loanwords in Tibetan are much, much rarer than they are in certain other languages of cultural areas that have also been in intense contact with Indian culture (e.g. the cases of Khmer and Javanese, where fully integrated loanwords, mainly from Sanskrit but also, to a much lesser extent, from NIA and NIA languages, may represent as much as 50% of all dictionary entries). Questions to scholars of Tibetan among you: - can you confirm that the percentage of Sanskrit and other Indic loanwords in a Tibetan dictionary will be much lower than 50%? - are any precise figures known? - are there any general publications on loanwords in Tibetan? - has the relative openness or closedness of the Tibetan lexicon to the integration of loanwords been a subject of discussion among historical linguists? Thank you. Arlo Griffiths ?cole fran?aise d'Extr?me-Orient -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mkapstei at uchicago.edu Mon Apr 6 14:18:26 2015 From: mkapstei at uchicago.edu (Matthew Kapstein) Date: Mon, 06 Apr 15 14:18:26 +0000 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Indic loanwords in Tibetan In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <82C3E42590D939418C74DD76B97DDED0374F7EAE@xm-mbx-04-prod.ad.uchicago.edu> Dear Arlo, My article The Indian Identity in Tibetan Literature addresses this in part. It is available on my academia page. In general, beginning in the eighth c., the Tibetans adopted a clear policy of using Tibetan neologisms in preference to loanwords wherever this was feasible, with the result that only a very small number of indic loans came into general use, perhaps fewer than 5% not to speak of 50! Hope this helps, Matthew Matthew Kapstein Directeur d'?tudes, Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes Numata Visiting Professor of Buddhist Studies, The University of Chicago ________________________________________ From suresh.kolichala at gmail.com Mon Apr 6 15:08:08 2015 From: suresh.kolichala at gmail.com (Suresh Kolichala) Date: Mon, 06 Apr 15 11:08:08 -0400 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Tukaram and the name Tuka In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Thanks for your replies Nagaraj and Palaniappan! Since Venus (*?ukra) *can be seen just before sunrise or just after sunset as a bright morning or evening star, it is possible that a specific term for Venus has merged with the generic term for star. At twilight, it seems Venus is up to 15 times brighter than the brightest star, Sirius. Based on the semantics of *?ukla/**?ukra *'bright', 'white', 'bright star'*, *and the Tamil semantics as pointed out by Palaniappan, I now believe that DEDR was wrong to include the meanings of star in the same entry [DEDR 2646 ], along with the meanings of spot, speck, dot, water-drop. Does Sanskrit *?ukla/**?ukra *'bright' have any Indo-European (or Indo-Iranian) cognates? Thanks, Suresh. Atlanta, GA. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Palaniappa at aol.com Mon Apr 6 15:42:36 2015 From: Palaniappa at aol.com (Sudalaimuthu Palaniappan) Date: Mon, 06 Apr 15 10:42:36 -0500 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Tukaram and the name Tuka In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <0459C749-EAC2-4B12-AD7B-339F2AA62BBB@aol.com> Suresh, I agree. This is the beauty of the Indology list. Because of a query related to a Marathi name and input from our Maharashtrian colleagues, we have identified a correction in DEDR! Wonderful! Regards, Palaniappan > On Apr 6, 2015, at 10:08 AM, Suresh Kolichala wrote: > > Thanks for your replies Nagaraj and Palaniappan! > > Since Venus (?ukra) can be seen just before sunrise or just after sunset as a bright morning or evening star, it is possible that a specific term for Venus has merged with the generic term for star. At twilight, it seems Venus is up to 15 times brighter than the brightest star, Sirius. > > Based on the semantics of ?ukla/?ukra 'bright', 'white', 'bright star', and the Tamil semantics as pointed out by Palaniappan, I now believe that DEDR was wrong to include the meanings of star in the same entry [DEDR 2646 ], along with the meanings of spot, speck, dot, water-drop. > > Does Sanskrit ?ukla/?ukra 'bright' have any Indo-European (or Indo-Iranian) cognates? > > Thanks, > Suresh. > Atlanta, GA. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Palaniappa at aol.com Mon Apr 6 18:07:48 2015 From: Palaniappa at aol.com (Sudalaimuthu Palaniappan) Date: Mon, 06 Apr 15 13:07:48 -0500 Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_[INDOLOGY]_Dravidian_etymologies_for_'makara',_vi=E1=B9=ADa=E1=B9=85kar_etc.?= In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <27D5BC94-F351-4DE3-A148-C1C6FA3E580B@aol.com> Dear Suresh, The article on Meru in the recent IJJS issue posted by Peter Flugel reminded me that I have to discuss some issues related to Ganesan?s etymologies regarding makara, etc.. Thank you for mentioning in your Indology message of January 24, 2015 the discussion in the CTamil list.[1] In your post, you said: ?Here Ganesan refers to Rajeshwari Ghose's book [15], but it is clear that Ganesan hasn't read her conclusions or purposefully avoids mentioning them.? This observation of yours needs some additional comments. I apologize for the length of this message commenting on your observation. I shall first discuss whether Ganesan has not read Ghose?s conclusions or purposefully avoids mentioning them in response to you. In doing that I shall update the information provided by Ghose and also explain why Na?ar?ja in Tanjore temple was probably called Dak?i?a M?ru Vi?a?kar. Next I shall discuss Ganesan?s past behavior of selective withholding of information that contradicted his view and even presenting false information in connection with encoding of Grantha script in Unicode. (Some members of this list were involved in evaluating such information.) Finally, I shall discuss the implications of Ganesan's thesis for Indology in general and comparative Dravidian linguistics and Tamil philology in particular. Those interested in the details can read on. Ganesan?s use of Ghose?s book In order to explore the question of whether Ganesan purposefully avoids mentioning Ghose?s conclusions, his response to you at https://listes.services.cnrs.fr/wws/arc/ctamil/2015-01/msg00039.html is useful. In his response to you, Ganesan has cited Ghose using the term Vi?a?kar to refer to the li?ga on pp. 51, 139, and 140 of her book. What Ghose has given on p. 51 is endnote 61 in which she says: "...though the Chidambaram candramaul??vara is made of crystal and it seems most likely that it is this, which is referred to as Tillai Vi?a?kar in epigraphs". Ghose points to endnote 61 on p. 30 in the main body of the text. In the immediate next paragraph on p.30, Ghose says: "The term Vi?a?ka is now unquestioningly accepted as of Sanskritic origin and etymologically split into vi+?a?ka 'one made without the use of the chisel' and consequently a svayambh? or self-manifested li?ga and it is this self manifestation which makes it specially sacred. It seems unlikely that this is what the word meant in earlier times in Tamil literature and epigraphy." After further discussing other lexical meanings of Vi?a?ka and even its tantric meaning, Rajeshwari Ghose says on p.31: "The term Vi?a?ka or its honorific form Vi?a?kar, when used in the ?aiva canonical works often has the connotation of something beautiful.? [2] Thus when Ghose says on p. 139, "At twelve o'clock the abhi?eka is done to the marakata Vi?a?kar (the emerald linga) in the Ty?gar?ja shrine," she is simply using the term as currently used in the temple. The same is true for p. 140 too. But, as Ghose notes on p. 30, she doubts if this usage prevailed in earlier times. This leads one to wonder why Ganesan refers to a footnote mentioned by Ghose in one paragraph but does not mention a conclusion of hers given in the very next paragraph? I do not believe that lack of reading the following paragraph could be the reason. It should also be noted that Ghose wrote on p. 35 that "Though no iconographical descriptions of the Vi?a?kar are given by the T?v?ram writers or by the epigraphs, the fact that nowadays processional images are Som?skandas makes it probable that the Vi?a?kas were Som?skandas in the Pallava and C??a times as well.? This statement by Ghose needs to be updated. R. Nagaswamy, the epigraphist, does give an iconographic description of Vi?a?kar as representing an anthropomorphic icon in the introduction in his later book "B?had??vara Temple: Form and Meaning", Aryan Publications, 2010, p. 2 (see http://ignca.nic.in/kp_10.htm ) as given below: "An inscription of R?jar?ja Co?a I discovered by me reveals for the first time, the complete iconography of a metal image (copper) called Mah?m?ru-Vi?a?kar consecrated by R?jar?ja, which consists of ?iva with his consort P?rvat?, seated on the mountain M?ru with his two sons, Gane?a and Subrahma?ya, and other deities like S?rya, Candra, V??abha, dwarfs and a tree. Such a group of images on the mountain M?ru, made of metal, is unique in the history of South India and has not been known to exist or has been referred to anywhere in Tamil Nadu. Another image made of copper also consecrated by R?jar?ja was called Dak?i?a M?ru-Vi?a?kar alias ??avall?r, the dancing form of Na?ar?ja. These two images - Mah?m?ru-Vi?a?kar and Dak?i?a-M?ru-Vi?a?kar - are mentioned as the two principal metal images in the temple in many inscriptions."[3] In the above inscription, Mah?m?ru referred to the mythical M?ru mountain supposed to be in the north. Dak???a M?ru referred to the Chidambaram temple. The Chidambaram temple was probably called Dak?i?a M?ru because its roof was covered with gold shingles.[4] Dak?i?a-M?ru-Vi?a?kar meant ?the beautiful one of Chidambaram? or Na?ar?ja. In fact, these are not the only inscriptions that clearly link the use of ?Vi?a?kar? to refer to Som?skanda or Na?ar?ja, both being non-naked forms of ?iva. In an inscription of 1060 CE in the Some?varasv?mi temple in Punganur, in Chittoor District in Andhra Pradesh, two icons were mentioned as being installed.[5] One was called ?Um?skanda sahita tirum?ni Vijayar?ja Vi?a?kar? and the other was ?Tirucci??ampalamu?aiy?r ?r?kara?a Vi?a?kar?. The first one was the Som?skanda icon and the second one was the Na?ar?ja icon. The name ?r?kara?a Vi?a?kar clearly indicates ?the beautiful one (who is performing) the sacred kara?a?. The second one was also referred to as ???aval?r ?r?kara?avi?a?kar? elsewhere in the inscription. That Natar?ja was called ?Vi?a?kar? is proven by this inscription. Similarly, another inscription of 1070 CE in Mugavadi in the same district mentions a Som?skanda icon as ?Um?skanda sahita tirum?nik K?r??ai Vi?a?kar?.[6] Thus there is clear epigraphic and iconographic confirmation that Vi?a?ka?/Vi?a?kar did not have any association with phallus or nudity in earlier times. Given all these attested uses of Vi?a?ka meaning 'beauteous', it is interesting that Ganesan has not answered your question as to why he considers DEDR 5472 meaning for Vi?a?ka is incorrect. Instead he has chosen to repeat his fantasies as facts in his response. Interestingly, in a post sent to some Internet lists (https://groups.google.com/d/msg/mintamil/lC7RRAFRb7c/kuP2K9jmd2MJ ), Ganesan cites V. M. Subramanya Aiyar in connection with T?v?ram 7.36 but fails to note that Aiyar interprets vi?a?ku as 'beauty' in T?v?ram 7.36.10 (http://www.ifpindia.org/digitaldb/site/digital_tevaram/U_TEV/VMS7_036.HTM#p10 ). Ganesan?s past use of data in support of his views: Ganesan does have a history of selectively withholding information or presenting even fabricated information in order to promote his viewpoint. See http://www.unicode.org/L2/L2011/11026-infitt-wg02-reports.pdf for a report, which critically evaluated the evidence offered by Ganesan to support his proposal to the Unicode Technical Committee to add some Tamil-specific characters to the Grantha script. (Mani Manivannan, the author of this report, is also a CTamil member. Ganesan's proposal can be accessed at http://www.unicode.org/L2/L2009/09345-grantha.pdf . ) Manivannan's report describes a special meeting arranged at Ecole fran?aise d'Extr?me-Orient (EFEO), Pudhucceri on December 22, 2010 to evaluate Ganesan's proposal. A few members of our Indology list, participated in that meeting (see p.2 of the report) too. The report presents evidence of Ganesan selectively withholding information contradicting his case (see p. 8 of the report) as well as offering textual evidence from a non-existent publication from a non-existent organization, i.e., Samskrita Granthalipi Sabha (see pp. 12-13 of the report). (In spite of many requests since 2010, Ganesan has not provided the contact information for the Samskrita Granthalipi Sabha.) This modus operandi of his may suggest if he has not read Ghose?s conclusions or purposefully avoided mentioning them. As is his habit in discussions like this, Ganesan has made sure that his CTamil post, in which he repeated his fantasies as facts, was the last in the thread as though he has won the scholarly debate. Also, after his response to you in CTamil list, he has posted in some Tamil lists the contents of his response to your CTamil message. See https://groups.google.com/d/msg/mintamil/lC7RRAFRb7c/kuP2K9jmd2MJ . He has also posted the contents of another post in CTamil with a preface in Tamil that suggests that he has shown you how *moka?ay gives rise to makara in the Indus region and moca?e in Kannada in https://groups.google.com/d/msg/mintamil/lC7RRAFRb7c/3iCIpf3m3RAJ . (Thus, he has changed his reconstruction of the word for crocodile from *mokaray to *moka?ay.) For the most part, the members of these lists are not comparative linguists. Many may not have access to the resources such as the book by Rajeshwari Ghose. So when he deliberately withholds relevant information contradicting his case, many members of these lists may be misled into believing that Ganesan's fantasies are facts indeed. You may remember that the two lists, CTamil and Indo-Eurasian Research, were set up after the old Indology list restricted its membership. Ganesan was a member of both lists initially. When he tried to post his fantasies on the Indo-Eurasian Research list, he was asked not to do so and was later expelled from the list. Implications for Indology One of the reasons for a detailed discussion of Ganesan's work is that he has said that he is going to present a paper on this topic at the upcoming World Sanskrit Conference in Thailand, which many Sanskritists may attend. I hope they find the comparative Dravidian and Tamil philological information discussed here useful. More importantly, the support Ganesan?s view enjoys among Indologists such as Prof. Nachimuthu raises serious questions about the present state of comparative Dravidian linguistics and Tamil philology in India. After all, Nachimuthu was the Chairperson of Center of Indian Languages (CIL) at Jawaharlal Nehru University (JNU) in Delhi and is currently the Head of the Department of Tamil at the Central University of Tamil Nadu at Tiruv?r?r. His specialized/applied areas of research are supposed to be classical literature, grammar, and linguistics. Nachimuthu is also on the Tamil Research and Translation faculty of International School of Dravidian Linguistics (ISDL). See http://www.ijdl.org/Html/Members.htm . According to ISDL, ?The Faculty is recruited only by invitation from among scholars of repute.? If such a reputed scholar cannot realize the fallacies in Ganesan?s Makara-Vi?a?kar thesis, the state of scholarship in Tamil philology and comparative Dravidian linguistics in India is a cause for concern indeed. As for ISDL, they seemed to have agreed to publish Ganesan?s paper with the bad reconstruction, *mokaray. Now that he has changed *mokaray to *moka?ay--still a bad reconstruction--I do not know what ISDL will do. It looks like ISDL did not ask any comparative Dravidian linguist to review Ganesan?s paper. Ironically, ISDL also has Prof. P. S. Subrahmanyam, the reputed comparative Dravidian linguist, on its Linguistics Faculty! Regards, Palaniappan [1] http://list.indology.info/pipermail/indology_list.indology.info/2015-January/040639.html [2] Actually, the ?aiva canonical works use Vi?a?ka or its honorific form Vi?a?kar to connote something beautiful not merely ?often? but in every instance. Ghose has used ?often? because she has erroneously taken the use of ?Vi?a?ka? in T?v?ram 4.81.9 to refer to the li?ga in Chidambaram (p. 36). Thus, she implies T?v?ram 4.81.9 to be the earliest use of Vi?a?ka in connection with a li?ga while earlier it simply meant something beautiful. As explained by V. M. Subramaniya Ayyar in Digital Tev?ram, Vi?a?ka means ?beautiful? in T?v?ram 4.81.9 too. (See http://www.ifpindia.org/digitaldb/site/digital_tevaram/U_TEV/DM4_81.HTM#p9 ) Ghose did not make use of the comparative linguistic evidence provided by Dravidian Etymological Dictionary entry #5472. If she had, she would have concluded the meaning of Vi?a?kar to be ?a beautiful person? much more definitely. [3] Clearly V??a?kar referring to an anthropomorphic ?iva is earlier than Vi?a?kar referring to a li?ga since we have "Dak?i?a M?ru-Vi?a?kar alias ??avall?r" referring to Na?ar?ja in Tanjavur. Moreover, literary texts such as Tiruppall???u 4 by C?nta??r (ca. 10th century) and Tiruvicaipp? 10 by Tirum??ikaitt?var (10th/11th century) clearly refer to Chidambaram Na?ar?ja as Vi?a?ka? meaning 'a person of beauty'. Campantar in T?v?ram 3.68.5 refers to ?iva dancing in Kail?sa as 'na?am taru vi?a?ka?' (dancing Vi?a?ka?) which scholars have interpreted as 'dancing person of beauty' (see http://www.thevaaram.org/thirumurai_1/onepage.php?thiru=3&Song_idField=3068 ). [4] Periyapur??am 250 and 2071 compare the P?rampalam in the Chidambaram temple to M?ru because of its roof gilded with gold by Kulottu?ga C??a II in the 12th century. But the Ci??ampalam, the central shrine of Na?ar?ja seems to have had the gold roof from the time of T?v?ram 5.2.8. [5] SII 22, no. 541 [6] SII 22, no. 573 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rsalomon at u.washington.edu Mon Apr 6 18:46:32 2015 From: rsalomon at u.washington.edu (Richard Salomon) Date: Mon, 06 Apr 15 11:46:32 -0700 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Tukaram and the name Tuka In-Reply-To: <551F9D36.5060401@pbhome.se> Message-ID: <5522D488.7000503@u.washington.edu> This is just a long shot, but could "Tuka" be somehow connected to "Turus.ka," which is variously used in Sanskrit to refer to Central Asians ("Turks," "Tocharians") or (later) to Muslims in general? At least it's in the right general geographical zone ("Tajika"). Rich Salomon On 4/4/2015 1:13 AM, Martin Gansten wrote: > In my researches into T?jika or Sanskritized Perso-Arabic astrology I've > come across the name of an author not mentioned in any of David > Pingree's works, a Tuka Jyotirvid. I'd never heard the name Tuka before > and was wondering whether it could possibly be a Sanskrit version of a > Persian name; but that seems unlikely, given that Tuka Jyotirvid wrote a > work in Sanskrit verse. Then I thought of Sant Tuk?r?m, whose name I > presume is a compound (of either tuk? + r?ma or tuka + ?r?ma). I'd be > glad of any information on the first member of this name: geographical > and linguistic origins, meaning, caste or other social/religious > connotations, etc. Above all, are people still called Tuk(a)/Tuk?, or do > we at least know of any historical person by that or a similar name > other than Tuk?r?m? > > Many thanks in advance, and apologies for cross-posting. > > Martin Gansten > > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > http://listinfo.indology.info -- ---------------------- Richard Salomon Department of Asian Languages and Literature University of Washington, Box 353521 Seattle WA 98195-3521 USA From rajam at earthlink.net Tue Apr 7 01:16:51 2015 From: rajam at earthlink.net (rajam) Date: Mon, 06 Apr 15 18:16:51 -0700 Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_[INDOLOGY]_Dravidian_etymologies_for_'makara',_vi=E1=B9=ADa=E1=B9=85kar_etc.?= In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <7B483689-CB63-403F-A995-4ED9525D5133@earthlink.net> Dear Indology List, Suresh, Palaniappan ? Thank you immensely for discussing this topic and bringing out the details to the unknown. I just wanted to share some sporadic thoughts, which have been painful for me over the years. There?s a problem of methodology here. (i) The saddest situation is that many Westerners (scholars or not) have been somehow captivated by Naga.Ganesan?s (NG?s) gesture, and have been exploited by him. NG has been promoting himself as someone who helps Westerners with his knowledge of this and that. I?ve heard that he?d send books/computers ? and people would fall at his feet for that gesture!! How sick! I know for sure that a few of my academic colleagues have fallen a prey. These academic colleagues are so lame to do their own research but would ask NG for ready reference and there you go ? a pile of Googlish junk at hand for those lazy Westerners to extrapolate. (ii) Our teacher Auvai Duraicami Pillai explained to us that ?viTankar? (vi?ankar) was ?one formed without being chiseled.? (iia) In any case, ?i?ankar? (for crocodile in ca?kam texts) and ?vitankar? (for referring to ?iva in bhakti texts) are NOT related. (iii) The Internet has been harboring a lot of unfortunate mishmashings. ++++++++++++++ I sincerely thank the Indology List for maintaining its integrity. Thanks and regards, V.S.Rajam > On Apr 6, 2015, at 11:09 AM, Sudalaimuthu Palaniappan via INDOLOGY wrote: > > > Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] Dravidian etymologies for 'makara', vi?a?kar etc. > From: Sudalaimuthu Palaniappan > Date: April 6, 2015 at 11:07:48 AM PDT > Cc: Indology , "ctamil at services.cnrs.fr" > To: "Suresh suresh.kolichala" > > > Dear Suresh, > > The article on Meru in the recent IJJS issue posted by Peter Flugel reminded me that I have to discuss some issues related to Ganesan?s etymologies regarding makara, etc.. > > Thank you for mentioning in your Indology message of January 24, 2015 the discussion in the CTamil list.[1] In your post, you said: > > ?Here Ganesan refers to Rajeshwari Ghose's book [15], but it is clear that Ganesan hasn't read her conclusions or purposefully avoids mentioning them.? > > This observation of yours needs some additional comments. > > I apologize for the length of this message commenting on your observation. I shall first discuss whether Ganesan has not read Ghose?s conclusions or purposefully avoids mentioning them in response to you. In doing that I shall update the information provided by Ghose and also explain why Na?ar?ja in Tanjore temple was probably called Dak?i?a M?ru Vi?a?kar. Next I shall discuss Ganesan?s past behavior of selective withholding of information that contradicted his view and even presenting false information in connection with encoding of Grantha script in Unicode. (Some members of this list were involved in evaluating such information.) Finally, I shall discuss the implications of Ganesan's thesis for Indology in general and comparative Dravidian linguistics and Tamil philology in particular. Those interested in the details can read on. > > Ganesan?s use of Ghose?s book > In order to explore the question of whether Ganesan purposefully avoids mentioning Ghose?s conclusions, his response to you at https://listes.services.cnrs.fr/wws/arc/ctamil/2015-01/msg00039.html is useful. > > In his response to you, Ganesan has cited Ghose using the term Vi?a?kar to refer to the li?ga on pp. 51, 139, and 140 of her book. What Ghose has given on p. 51 is endnote 61 in which she says: > "...though the Chidambaram candramaul??vara is made of crystal and it seems most likely that it is this, which is referred to as Tillai Vi?a?kar in epigraphs". > > Ghose points to endnote 61 on p. 30 in the main body of the text. In the immediate next paragraph on p.30, Ghose says: > "The term Vi?a?ka is now unquestioningly accepted as of Sanskritic origin and etymologically split into vi+?a?ka 'one made without the use of the chisel' and consequently a svayambh? or self-manifested li?ga and it is this self manifestation which makes it specially sacred. It seems unlikely that this is what the word meant in earlier times in Tamil literature and epigraphy." > > After further discussing other lexical meanings of Vi?a?ka and even its tantric meaning, Rajeshwari Ghose says on p.31: > "The term Vi?a?ka or its honorific form Vi?a?kar, when used in the ?aiva canonical works often has the connotation of something beautiful.? [2] > > Thus when Ghose says on p. 139, "At twelve o'clock the abhi?eka is done to the marakata Vi?a?kar (the emerald linga) in the Ty?gar?ja shrine," she is simply using the term as currently used in the temple. The same is true for p. 140 too. But, as Ghose notes on p. 30, she doubts if this usage prevailed in earlier times. > > This leads one to wonder why Ganesan refers to a footnote mentioned by Ghose in one paragraph but does not mention a conclusion of hers given in the very next paragraph? I do not believe that lack of reading the following paragraph could be the reason. > > It should also be noted that Ghose wrote on p. 35 that "Though no iconographical descriptions of the Vi?a?kar are given by the T?v?ram writers or by the epigraphs, the fact that nowadays processional images are Som?skandas makes it probable that the Vi?a?kas were Som?skandas in the Pallava and C??a times as well.? This statement by Ghose needs to be updated. R. Nagaswamy, the epigraphist, does give an iconographic description of Vi?a?kar as representing an anthropomorphic icon in the introduction in his later book "B?had??vara Temple: Form and Meaning", Aryan Publications, 2010, p. 2 (see http://ignca.nic.in/kp_10.htm ) as given below: > > "An inscription of R?jar?ja Co?a I discovered by me reveals for the first time, the complete iconography of a metal image (copper) called Mah?m?ru-Vi?a?kar consecrated by R?jar?ja, which consists of ?iva with his consort P?rvat?, seated on the mountain M?ru with his two sons, Gane?a and Subrahma?ya, and other deities like S?rya, Candra, V??abha, dwarfs and a tree. Such a group of images on the mountain M?ru, made of metal, is unique in the history of South India and has not been known to exist or has been referred to anywhere in Tamil Nadu. Another image made of copper also consecrated by R?jar?ja was called Dak?i?a M?ru-Vi?a?kar alias ??avall?r, the dancing form of Na?ar?ja. These two images - Mah?m?ru-Vi?a?kar and Dak?i?a-M?ru-Vi?a?kar - are mentioned as the two principal metal images in the temple in many inscriptions."[3] > > In the above inscription, Mah?m?ru referred to the mythical M?ru mountain supposed to be in the north. Dak???a M?ru referred to the Chidambaram temple. The Chidambaram temple was probably called Dak?i?a M?ru because its roof was covered with gold shingles.[4] Dak?i?a-M?ru-Vi?a?kar meant ?the beautiful one of Chidambaram? or Na?ar?ja. > > In fact, these are not the only inscriptions that clearly link the use of ?Vi?a?kar? to refer to Som?skanda or Na?ar?ja, both being non-naked forms of ?iva. In an inscription of 1060 CE in the Some?varasv?mi temple in Punganur, in Chittoor District in Andhra Pradesh, two icons were mentioned as being installed.[5] One was called ?Um?skanda sahita tirum?ni Vijayar?ja Vi?a?kar? and the other was ?Tirucci??ampalamu?aiy?r ?r?kara?a Vi?a?kar?. The first one was the Som?skanda icon and the second one was the Na?ar?ja icon. The name ?r?kara?a Vi?a?kar clearly indicates ?the beautiful one (who is performing) the sacred kara?a?. The second one was also referred to as ???aval?r ?r?kara?avi?a?kar? elsewhere in the inscription. That Natar?ja was called ?Vi?a?kar? is proven by this inscription. Similarly, another inscription of 1070 CE in Mugavadi in the same district mentions a Som?skanda icon as ?Um?skanda sahita tirum?nik K?r??ai Vi?a?kar?.[6] > > Thus there is clear epigraphic and iconographic confirmation that Vi?a?ka?/Vi?a?kar did not have any association with phallus or nudity in earlier times. > > Given all these attested uses of Vi?a?ka meaning 'beauteous', it is interesting that Ganesan has not answered your question as to why he considers DEDR 5472 meaning for Vi?a?ka is incorrect. Instead he has chosen to repeat his fantasies as facts in his response. Interestingly, in a post sent to some Internet lists (https://groups.google.com/d/msg/mintamil/lC7RRAFRb7c/kuP2K9jmd2MJ ), Ganesan cites V. M. Subramanya Aiyar in connection with T?v?ram 7.36 but fails to note that Aiyar interprets vi?a?ku as 'beauty' in T?v?ram 7.36.10 (http://www.ifpindia.org/digitaldb/site/digital_tevaram/U_TEV/VMS7_036.HTM#p10 ). > > Ganesan?s past use of data in support of his views: > Ganesan does have a history of selectively withholding information or presenting even fabricated information in order to promote his viewpoint. See http://www.unicode.org/L2/L2011/11026-infitt-wg02-reports.pdf for a report, which critically evaluated the evidence offered by Ganesan to support his proposal to the Unicode Technical Committee to add some Tamil-specific characters to the Grantha script. (Mani Manivannan, the author of this report, is also a CTamil member. Ganesan's proposal can be accessed at http://www.unicode.org/L2/L2009/09345-grantha.pdf . ) > > Manivannan's report describes a special meeting arranged at Ecole fran?aise d'Extr?me-Orient (EFEO), Pudhucceri on December 22, 2010 to evaluate Ganesan's proposal. A few members of our Indology list, participated in that meeting (see p.2 of the report) too. The report presents evidence of Ganesan selectively withholding information contradicting his case (see p. 8 of the report) as well as offering textual evidence from a non-existent publication from a non-existent organization, i.e., Samskrita Granthalipi Sabha (see pp. 12-13 of the report). (In spite of many requests since 2010, Ganesan has not provided the contact information for the Samskrita Granthalipi Sabha.) This modus operandi of his may suggest if he has not read Ghose?s conclusions or purposefully avoided mentioning them. > > As is his habit in discussions like this, Ganesan has made sure that his CTamil post, in which he repeated his fantasies as facts, was the last in the thread as though he has won the scholarly debate. Also, after his response to you in CTamil list, he has posted in some Tamil lists the contents of his response to your CTamil message. See https://groups.google.com/d/msg/mintamil/lC7RRAFRb7c/kuP2K9jmd2MJ . He has also posted the contents of another post in CTamil with a preface in Tamil that suggests that he has shown you how *moka?ay gives rise to makara in the Indus region and moca?e in Kannada in https://groups.google.com/d/msg/mintamil/lC7RRAFRb7c/3iCIpf3m3RAJ . (Thus, he has changed his reconstruction of the word for crocodile from *mokaray to *moka?ay.) For the most part, the members of these lists are not comparative linguists. Many may not have access to the resources such as the book by Rajeshwari Ghose. So when he deliberately withholds relevant information contradicting his case, many members of these lists may be misled into believing that Ganesan's fantasies are facts indeed. > > You may remember that the two lists, CTamil and Indo-Eurasian Research, were set up after the old Indology list restricted its membership. Ganesan was a member of both lists initially. When he tried to post his fantasies on the Indo-Eurasian Research list, he was asked not to do so and was later expelled from the list. > > Implications for Indology > One of the reasons for a detailed discussion of Ganesan's work is that he has said that he is going to present a paper on this topic at the upcoming World Sanskrit Conference in Thailand, which many Sanskritists may attend. I hope they find the comparative Dravidian and Tamil philological information discussed here useful. > > More importantly, the support Ganesan?s view enjoys among Indologists such as Prof. Nachimuthu raises serious questions about the present state of comparative Dravidian linguistics and Tamil philology in India. After all, Nachimuthu was the Chairperson of Center of Indian Languages (CIL) at Jawaharlal Nehru University (JNU) in Delhi and is currently the Head of the Department of Tamil at the Central University of Tamil Nadu at Tiruv?r?r. His specialized/applied areas of research are supposed to be classical literature, grammar, and linguistics. Nachimuthu is also on the Tamil Research and Translation faculty of International School of Dravidian Linguistics (ISDL). See http://www.ijdl.org/Html/Members.htm . > > According to ISDL, ?The Faculty is recruited only by invitation from among scholars of repute.? If such a reputed scholar cannot realize the fallacies in Ganesan?s Makara-Vi?a?kar thesis, the state of scholarship in Tamil philology and comparative Dravidian linguistics in India is a cause for concern indeed. As for ISDL, they seemed to have agreed to publish Ganesan?s paper with the bad reconstruction, *mokaray. Now that he has changed *mokaray to *moka?ay--still a bad reconstruction--I do not know what ISDL will do. It looks like ISDL did not ask any comparative Dravidian linguist to review Ganesan?s paper. Ironically, ISDL also has Prof. P. S. Subrahmanyam, the reputed comparative Dravidian linguist, on its Linguistics Faculty! > > Regards, > Palaniappan > > [1] http://list.indology.info/pipermail/indology_list.indology.info/2015-January/040639.html > [2] Actually, the ?aiva canonical works use Vi?a?ka or its honorific form Vi?a?kar to connote something beautiful not merely ?often? but in every instance. Ghose has used ?often? because she has erroneously taken the use of ?Vi?a?ka? in T?v?ram 4.81.9 to refer to the li?ga in Chidambaram (p. 36). Thus, she implies T?v?ram 4.81.9 to be the earliest use of Vi?a?ka in connection with a li?ga while earlier it simply meant something beautiful. As explained by V. M. Subramaniya Ayyar in Digital Tev?ram, Vi?a?ka means ?beautiful? in T?v?ram 4.81.9 too. (See http://www.ifpindia.org/digitaldb/site/digital_tevaram/U_TEV/DM4_81.HTM#p9 ) Ghose did not make use of the comparative linguistic evidence provided by Dravidian Etymological Dictionary entry #5472. If she had, she would have concluded the meaning of Vi?a?kar to be ?a beautiful person? much more definitely. > [3] Clearly V??a?kar referring to an anthropomorphic ?iva is earlier than Vi?a?kar referring to a li?ga since we have "Dak?i?a M?ru-Vi?a?kar alias ??avall?r" referring to Na?ar?ja in Tanjavur. Moreover, literary texts such as Tiruppall???u 4 by C?nta??r (ca. 10th century) and Tiruvicaipp? 10 by Tirum??ikaitt?var (10th/11th century) clearly refer to Chidambaram Na?ar?ja as Vi?a?ka? meaning 'a person of beauty'. Campantar in T?v?ram 3.68.5 refers to ?iva dancing in Kail?sa as 'na?am taru vi?a?ka?' (dancing Vi?a?ka?) which scholars have interpreted as 'dancing person of beauty' (see http://www.thevaaram.org/thirumurai_1/onepage.php?thiru=3&Song_idField=3068 ). > [4] Periyapur??am 250 and 2071 compare the P?rampalam in the Chidambaram temple to M?ru because of its roof gilded with gold by Kulottu?ga C??a II in the 12th century. But the Ci??ampalam, the central shrine of Na?ar?ja seems to have had the gold roof from the time of T?v?ram 5.2.8. > [5] SII 22, no. 541 > [6] SII 22, no. 573 > > > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > http://listinfo.indology.info -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From H.J.H.Tieken at hum.leidenuniv.nl Tue Apr 7 06:54:36 2015 From: H.J.H.Tieken at hum.leidenuniv.nl (Tieken, H.J.H.) Date: Tue, 07 Apr 15 06:54:36 +0000 Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_[INDOLOGY]_Dravidian_etymologies_for_'makara',_vi=E1=B9=ADa=E1=B9=85kar_etc.?= In-Reply-To: <7B483689-CB63-403F-A995-4ED9525D5133@earthlink.net> Message-ID: Dear list members, Quite recently I have unsubscribed myself from the Classical Tamil list because it was completely monopolized by Naga Ganesan, only to discover that the discussion about the nonsense produced by him has now moved on to the Indology list. Could we please show some more self-restraint and ignore him. With kind regards, Herman Herman Tieken Stationsweg 58 2515 BP Den Haag The Netherlands 00 31 (0)70 2208127 website: hermantieken.com ________________________________ Van: INDOLOGY [indology-bounces at list.indology.info] namens rajam [rajam at earthlink.net] Verzonden: dinsdag 7 april 2015 3:16 Aan: Sudalaimuthu Palaniappan CC: Indology Onderwerp: Re: [INDOLOGY] Dravidian etymologies for 'makara', vi?a?kar etc. Dear Indology List, Suresh, Palaniappan ? Thank you immensely for discussing this topic and bringing out the details to the unknown. I just wanted to share some sporadic thoughts, which have been painful for me over the years. There?s a problem of methodology here. (i) The saddest situation is that many Westerners (scholars or not) have been somehow captivated by Naga.Ganesan?s (NG?s) gesture, and have been exploited by him. NG has been promoting himself as someone who helps Westerners with his knowledge of this and that. I?ve heard that he?d send books/computers ? and people would fall at his feet for that gesture!! How sick! I know for sure that a few of my academic colleagues have fallen a prey. These academic colleagues are so lame to do their own research but would ask NG for ready reference and there you go ? a pile of Googlish junk at hand for those lazy Westerners to extrapolate. (ii) Our teacher Auvai Duraicami Pillai explained to us that ?viTankar? (vi?ankar) was ?one formed without being chiseled.? (iia) In any case, ?i?ankar? (for crocodile in ca?kam texts) and ?vitankar? (for referring to ?iva in bhakti texts) are NOT related. (iii) The Internet has been harboring a lot of unfortunate mishmashings. ++++++++++++++ I sincerely thank the Indology List for maintaining its integrity. Thanks and regards, V.S.Rajam On Apr 6, 2015, at 11:09 AM, Sudalaimuthu Palaniappan via INDOLOGY > wrote: Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] Dravidian etymologies for 'makara', vi?a?kar etc. From: Sudalaimuthu Palaniappan > Date: April 6, 2015 at 11:07:48 AM PDT Cc: Indology >, "ctamil at services.cnrs.fr" > To: "Suresh suresh.kolichala" > Dear Suresh, The article on Meru in the recent IJJS issue posted by Peter Flugel reminded me that I have to discuss some issues related to Ganesan?s etymologies regarding makara, etc.. Thank you for mentioning in your Indology message of January 24, 2015 the discussion in the CTamil list.[1] In your post, you said: ?Here Ganesan refers to Rajeshwari Ghose's book [15], but it is clear that Ganesan hasn't read her conclusions or purposefully avoids mentioning them.? This observation of yours needs some additional comments. I apologize for the length of this message commenting on your observation. I shall first discuss whether Ganesan has not read Ghose?s conclusions or purposefully avoids mentioning them in response to you. In doing that I shall update the information provided by Ghose and also explain why Na?ar?ja in Tanjore temple was probably called Dak?i?a M?ru Vi?a?kar. Next I shall discuss Ganesan?s past behavior of selective withholding of information that contradicted his view and even presenting false information in connection with encoding of Grantha script in Unicode. (Some members of this list were involved in evaluating such information.) Finally, I shall discuss the implications of Ganesan's thesis for Indology in general and comparative Dravidian linguistics and Tamil philology in particular. Those interested in the details can read on. Ganesan?s use of Ghose?s book In order to explore the question of whether Ganesan purposefully avoids mentioning Ghose?s conclusions, his response to you at https://listes.services.cnrs.fr/wws/arc/ctamil/2015-01/msg00039.html is useful. In his response to you, Ganesan has cited Ghose using the term Vi?a?kar to refer to the li?ga on pp. 51, 139, and 140 of her book. What Ghose has given on p. 51 is endnote 61 in which she says: "...though the Chidambaram candramaul??vara is made of crystal and it seems most likely that it is this, which is referred to as Tillai Vi?a?kar in epigraphs". Ghose points to endnote 61 on p. 30 in the main body of the text. In the immediate next paragraph on p.30, Ghose says: "The term Vi?a?ka is now unquestioningly accepted as of Sanskritic origin and etymologically split into vi+?a?ka 'one made without the use of the chisel' and consequently a svayambh? or self-manifested li?ga and it is this self manifestation which makes it specially sacred. It seems unlikely that this is what the word meant in earlier times in Tamil literature and epigraphy." After further discussing other lexical meanings of Vi?a?ka and even its tantric meaning, Rajeshwari Ghose says on p.31: "The term Vi?a?ka or its honorific form Vi?a?kar, when used in the ?aiva canonical works often has the connotation of something beautiful.? [2] Thus when Ghose says on p. 139, "At twelve o'clock the abhi?eka is done to the marakata Vi?a?kar (the emerald linga) in the Ty?gar?ja shrine," she is simply using the term as currently used in the temple. The same is true for p. 140 too. But, as Ghose notes on p. 30, she doubts if this usage prevailed in earlier times. This leads one to wonder why Ganesan refers to a footnote mentioned by Ghose in one paragraph but does not mention a conclusion of hers given in the very next paragraph? I do not believe that lack of reading the following paragraph could be the reason. It should also be noted that Ghose wrote on p. 35 that "Though no iconographical descriptions of the Vi?a?kar are given by the T?v?ram writers or by the epigraphs, the fact that nowadays processional images are Som?skandas makes it probable that the Vi?a?kas were Som?skandas in the Pallava and C??a times as well.? This statement by Ghose needs to be updated. R. Nagaswamy, the epigraphist, does give an iconographic description of Vi?a?kar as representing an anthropomorphic icon in the introduction in his later book "B?had??vara Temple: Form and Meaning", Aryan Publications, 2010, p. 2 (see http://ignca.nic.in/kp_10.htm) as given below: "An inscription of R?jar?ja Co?a I discovered by me reveals for the first time, the complete iconography of a metal image (copper) called Mah?m?ru-Vi?a?kar consecrated by R?jar?ja, which consists of ?iva with his consort P?rvat?, seated on the mountain M?ru with his two sons, Gane?a and Subrahma?ya, and other deities like S?rya, Candra, V??abha, dwarfs and a tree. Such a group of images on the mountain M?ru, made of metal, is unique in the history of South India and has not been known to exist or has been referred to anywhere in Tamil Nadu. Another image made of copper also consecrated by R?jar?ja was called Dak?i?a M?ru-Vi?a?kar alias ??avall?r, the dancing form of Na?ar?ja. These two images - Mah?m?ru-Vi?a?kar and Dak?i?a-M?ru-Vi?a?kar - are mentioned as the two principal metal images in the temple in many inscriptions."[3] In the above inscription, Mah?m?ru referred to the mythical M?ru mountain supposed to be in the north. Dak???a M?ru referred to the Chidambaram temple. The Chidambaram temple was probably called Dak?i?a M?ru because its roof was covered with gold shingles.[4] Dak?i?a-M?ru-Vi?a?kar meant ?the beautiful one of Chidambaram? or Na?ar?ja. In fact, these are not the only inscriptions that clearly link the use of ?Vi?a?kar? to refer to Som?skanda or Na?ar?ja, both being non-naked forms of ?iva. In an inscription of 1060 CE in the Some?varasv?mi temple in Punganur, in Chittoor District in Andhra Pradesh, two icons were mentioned as being installed.[5] One was called ?Um?skanda sahita tirum?ni Vijayar?ja Vi?a?kar? and the other was ?Tirucci??ampalamu?aiy?r ?r?kara?a Vi?a?kar?. The first one was the Som?skanda icon and the second one was the Na?ar?ja icon. The name ?r?kara?a Vi?a?kar clearly indicates ?the beautiful one (who is performing) the sacred kara?a?. The second one was also referred to as ???aval?r ?r?kara?avi?a?kar? elsewhere in the inscription. That Natar?ja was called ?Vi?a?kar? is proven by this inscription. Similarly, another inscription of 1070 CE in Mugavadi in the same district mentions a Som?skanda icon as ?Um?skanda sahita tirum?nik K?r??ai Vi?a?kar?.[6] Thus there is clear epigraphic and iconographic confirmation that Vi?a?ka?/Vi?a?kar did not have any association with phallus or nudity in earlier times. Given all these attested uses of Vi?a?ka meaning 'beauteous', it is interesting that Ganesan has not answered your question as to why he considers DEDR 5472 meaning for Vi?a?ka is incorrect. Instead he has chosen to repeat his fantasies as facts in his response. Interestingly, in a post sent to some Internet lists (https://groups.google.com/d/msg/mintamil/lC7RRAFRb7c/kuP2K9jmd2MJ), Ganesan cites V. M. Subramanya Aiyar in connection with T?v?ram 7.36 but fails to note that Aiyar interprets vi?a?ku as 'beauty' in T?v?ram 7.36.10 (http://www.ifpindia.org/digitaldb/site/digital_tevaram/U_TEV/VMS7_036.HTM#p10). Ganesan?s past use of data in support of his views: Ganesan does have a history of selectively withholding information or presenting even fabricated information in order to promote his viewpoint. See http://www.unicode.org/L2/L2011/11026-infitt-wg02-reports.pdf for a report, which critically evaluated the evidence offered by Ganesan to support his proposal to the Unicode Technical Committee to add some Tamil-specific characters to the Grantha script. (Mani Manivannan, the author of this report, is also a CTamil member. Ganesan's proposal can be accessed at http://www.unicode.org/L2/L2009/09345-grantha.pdf. ) Manivannan's report describes a special meeting arranged at Ecole fran?aise d'Extr?me-Orient (EFEO), Pudhucceri on December 22, 2010 to evaluate Ganesan's proposal. A few members of our Indology list, participated in that meeting (see p.2 of the report) too. The report presents evidence of Ganesan selectively withholding information contradicting his case (see p. 8 of the report) as well as offering textual evidence from a non-existent publication from a non-existent organization, i.e., Samskrita Granthalipi Sabha (see pp. 12-13 of the report). (In spite of many requests since 2010, Ganesan has not provided the contact information for the Samskrita Granthalipi Sabha.) This modus operandi of his may suggest if he has not read Ghose?s conclusions or purposefully avoided mentioning them. As is his habit in discussions like this, Ganesan has made sure that his CTamil post, in which he repeated his fantasies as facts, was the last in the thread as though he has won the scholarly debate. Also, after his response to you in CTamil list, he has posted in some Tamil lists the contents of his response to your CTamil message. See https://groups.google.com/d/msg/mintamil/lC7RRAFRb7c/kuP2K9jmd2MJ. He has also posted the contents of another post in CTamil with a preface in Tamil that suggests that he has shown you how *moka?ay gives rise to makara in the Indus region and moca?e in Kannada in https://groups.google.com/d/msg/mintamil/lC7RRAFRb7c/3iCIpf3m3RAJ. (Thus, he has changed his reconstruction of the word for crocodile from *mokaray to *moka?ay.) For the most part, the members of these lists are not comparative linguists. Many may not have access to the resources such as the book by Rajeshwari Ghose. So when he deliberately withholds relevant information contradicting his case, many members of these lists may be misled into believing that Ganesan's fantasies are facts indeed. You may remember that the two lists, CTamil and Indo-Eurasian Research, were set up after the old Indology list restricted its membership. Ganesan was a member of both lists initially. When he tried to post his fantasies on the Indo-Eurasian Research list, he was asked not to do so and was later expelled from the list. Implications for Indology One of the reasons for a detailed discussion of Ganesan's work is that he has said that he is going to present a paper on this topic at the upcoming World Sanskrit Conference in Thailand, which many Sanskritists may attend. I hope they find the comparative Dravidian and Tamil philological information discussed here useful. More importantly, the support Ganesan?s view enjoys among Indologists such as Prof. Nachimuthu raises serious questions about the present state of comparative Dravidian linguistics and Tamil philology in India. After all, Nachimuthu was the Chairperson of Center of Indian Languages (CIL) at Jawaharlal Nehru University (JNU) in Delhi and is currently the Head of the Department of Tamil at the Central University of Tamil Nadu at Tiruv?r?r. His specialized/applied areas of research are supposed to be classical literature, grammar, and linguistics. Nachimuthu is also on the Tamil Research and Translation faculty of International School of Dravidian Linguistics (ISDL). See http://www.ijdl.org/Html/Members.htm. According to ISDL, ?The Faculty is recruited only by invitation from among scholars of repute.? If such a reputed scholar cannot realize the fallacies in Ganesan?s Makara-Vi?a?kar thesis, the state of scholarship in Tamil philology and comparative Dravidian linguistics in India is a cause for concern indeed. As for ISDL, they seemed to have agreed to publish Ganesan?s paper with the bad reconstruction, *mokaray. Now that he has changed *mokaray to *moka?ay--still a bad reconstruction--I do not know what ISDL will do. It looks like ISDL did not ask any comparative Dravidian linguist to review Ganesan?s paper. Ironically, ISDL also has Prof. P. S. Subrahmanyam, the reputed comparative Dravidian linguist, on its Linguistics Faculty! Regards, Palaniappan ________________________________ [1] http://list.indology.info/pipermail/indology_list.indology.info/2015-January/040639.html [2] Actually, the ?aiva canonical works use Vi?a?ka or its honorific form Vi?a?kar to connote something beautiful not merely ?often? but in every instance. Ghose has used ?often? because she has erroneously taken the use of ?Vi?a?ka? in T?v?ram 4.81.9 to refer to the li?ga in Chidambaram (p. 36). Thus, she implies T?v?ram 4.81.9 to be the earliest use of Vi?a?ka in connection with a li?ga while earlier it simply meant something beautiful. As explained by V. M. Subramaniya Ayyar in Digital Tev?ram, Vi?a?ka means ?beautiful? in T?v?ram 4.81.9 too. (See http://www.ifpindia.org/digitaldb/site/digital_tevaram/U_TEV/DM4_81.HTM#p9) Ghose did not make use of the comparative linguistic evidence provided by Dravidian Etymological Dictionary entry #5472. If she had, she would have concluded the meaning of Vi?a?kar to be ?a beautiful person? much more definitely. [3] Clearly V??a?kar referring to an anthropomorphic ?iva is earlier than Vi?a?kar referring to a li?ga since we have "Dak?i?a M?ru-Vi?a?kar alias ??avall?r" referring to Na?ar?ja in Tanjavur. Moreover, literary texts such as Tiruppall???u 4 by C?nta??r (ca. 10th century) and Tiruvicaipp? 10 by Tirum??ikaitt?var (10th/11th century) clearly refer to Chidambaram Na?ar?ja as Vi?a?ka? meaning 'a person of beauty'. Campantar in T?v?ram 3.68.5 refers to ?iva dancing in Kail?sa as 'na?am taru vi?a?ka?' (dancing Vi?a?ka?) which scholars have interpreted as 'dancing person of beauty' (see http://www.thevaaram.org/thirumurai_1/onepage.php?thiru=3&Song_idField=3068). [4] Periyapur??am 250 and 2071 compare the P?rampalam in the Chidambaram temple to M?ru because of its roof gilded with gold by Kulottu?ga C??a II in the 12th century. But the Ci??ampalam, the central shrine of Na?ar?ja seems to have had the gold roof from the time of T?v?ram 5.2.8. [5] SII 22, no. 541 [6] SII 22, no. 573 _______________________________________________ INDOLOGY mailing list INDOLOGY at list.indology.info http://listinfo.indology.info -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From vjroebuck at btinternet.com Tue Apr 7 08:12:25 2015 From: vjroebuck at btinternet.com (Valerie Roebuck) Date: Tue, 07 Apr 15 09:12:25 +0100 Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_[INDOLOGY]_Dravidian_etymologies_for_'makara',_vi=E1=B9=ADa=E1=B9=85kar_etc.?= In-Reply-To: <7B483689-CB63-403F-A995-4ED9525D5133@earthlink.net> Message-ID: Dear Colleagues Surely it is possible to disagree with fellow list members without being offensive? (I have no knowledge at all of the issues under discussion here, but I strongly object to the use of the word ?lame? as an insult and the slur on ?lazy Westerners?.) Valerie J Roebuck Manchester, UK > On 7 Apr 2015, at 02:16, rajam wrote: > > Dear Indology List, Suresh, Palaniappan ? > > Thank you immensely for discussing this topic and bringing out the details to the unknown. > > I just wanted to share some sporadic thoughts, which have been painful for me over the years. > > There?s a problem of methodology here. > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rajam at earthlink.net Tue Apr 7 09:34:18 2015 From: rajam at earthlink.net (rajam) Date: Tue, 07 Apr 15 02:34:18 -0700 Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_[INDOLOGY]_Dravidian_etymologies_for_'makara',_vi=E1=B9=ADa=E1=B9=85kar_etc.?= In-Reply-To: Message-ID: My apologies, Valerie. My deep frustration has gotten over me. I won?t use such harsh words again. Sorry. Regards, Rajam > On Apr 7, 2015, at 1:12 AM, Valerie Roebuck wrote: > > Dear Colleagues > > Surely it is possible to disagree with fellow list members without being offensive? (I have no knowledge at all of the issues under discussion here, but I strongly object to the use of the word ?lame? as an insult and the slur on ?lazy Westerners?.) > > Valerie J Roebuck > Manchester, UK > >> On 7 Apr 2015, at 02:16, rajam > wrote: >> >> Dear Indology List, Suresh, Palaniappan ? >> >> Thank you immensely for discussing this topic and bringing out the details to the unknown. >> >> I just wanted to share some sporadic thoughts, which have been painful for me over the years. >> >> There?s a problem of methodology here. >> > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > http://listinfo.indology.info -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From nagarajpaturi at gmail.com Tue Apr 7 09:42:06 2015 From: nagarajpaturi at gmail.com (Nagaraj Paturi) Date: Tue, 07 Apr 15 15:12:06 +0530 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Tukaram and the name Tuka In-Reply-To: <0459C749-EAC2-4B12-AD7B-339F2AA62BBB@aol.com> Message-ID: 1. Suresh, why do you consider DEDR's including star as a meaning in the entry for cukka wrong? Do you think, cukka=star is a tadbhava coming from s'ukla=white, ( also?bright?) and not a dEs'ya. Is cukka=star as a laakshaNika (metaphorical) extension from cukka=dot not convincing? 2. There are other uses of chukka covered in Gwynn's dictionary : cukka *cukka* *n*. *1* point, dot, spot. *2* drop. *3* star; *eemiTi ~ uuDipaDDaTTu waccEEwu*? why have you come like a star falling? i.e., why have you come unexpectedly out of the blue? *4* the planet Venus, whose appearance in front of a traveller starting on a journey is considered unlucky; *~ tirigindi* *lit*. the star has turned, i.e., Venus is no longer in front and the auspicious time has begun; *cf*. *cukkeduru*. *5** beautiful woman. 6 alcohol, liquor*. (underlining mine) DEDR does not cover these meanings. Are these cukka=beautiful woman and cukka= alcohol, liquor dEs'ya are not? Is cukka = beautiful woman a laakshaNika (metaphorical) extension from cukka=star? s'ukra in astrology considered to be a planet affecting arts, beauty and aesthetics; Is it related to that? Is cukka =liquor a laakshaNika (metaphorical) extension from cukka= drop? or is it related to the milky white colour (s'ukla) of country liquor? 3. If cukka=star is accepted as a dEs'ya, cukka=planet venus can be linked to that as a coincidental cultural similarity to expressions such as morning star. These are some aspects to ponder over in this connection. On Mon, Apr 6, 2015 at 9:12 PM, Sudalaimuthu Palaniappan wrote: > Suresh, > > I agree. > > This is the beauty of the Indology list. Because of a query related to a > Marathi name and input from our Maharashtrian colleagues, we have > identified a correction in DEDR! Wonderful! > > Regards, > Palaniappan > > > On Apr 6, 2015, at 10:08 AM, Suresh Kolichala > wrote: > > Thanks for your replies Nagaraj and Palaniappan! > > Since Venus (*?ukra) *can be seen just before sunrise or just after > sunset as a bright morning or evening star, it is possible that a specific > term for Venus has merged with the generic term for star. At twilight, it > seems Venus is up to 15 times brighter than the brightest star, Sirius. > > Based on the semantics of *?ukla/**?ukra *'bright', 'white', 'bright star'*, > *and the Tamil semantics as pointed out by Palaniappan, I now believe > that DEDR was wrong to include the meanings of star in the same entry [DEDR > 2646 ], along > with the meanings of spot, speck, dot, water-drop. > > Does Sanskrit *?ukla/**?ukra *'bright' have any Indo-European (or > Indo-Iranian) cognates? > > Thanks, > Suresh. > Atlanta, GA. > > > -- Prof.Nagaraj Paturi Hyderabad-500044 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From vjroebuck at btinternet.com Tue Apr 7 12:01:07 2015 From: vjroebuck at btinternet.com (Valerie ROEBUCK) Date: Tue, 07 Apr 15 13:01:07 +0100 Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_[INDOLOGY]_Dravidian_etymologies_for_'makara',_vi=E1=B9=ADa=E1=B9=85kar_etc.?= In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <1428408067.47506.YahooMailNeo@web171902.mail.ir2.yahoo.com> Dear Rajam Thank you. Valerie >________________________________ > From: rajam >To: Valerie Roebuck >Cc: indology List List >Sent: Tuesday, 7 April 2015, 10:34 >Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] Dravidian etymologies for 'makara', vi?a?kar etc. > > > >My apologies, Valerie. My deep frustration has gotten over me. I won?t use such harsh words again. Sorry. > > >Regards, >Rajam > >On Apr 7, 2015, at 1:12 AM, Valerie Roebuck wrote: >> >Dear Colleagues > > >Surely it is possible to disagree with fellow list members without being offensive? (I have no knowledge at all of the issues under discussion here, but I strongly object to the use of the word ?lame? as an insult and the slur on ?lazy Westerners?.) > > >Valerie J Roebuck >Manchester, UK > > > >On 7 Apr 2015, at 02:16, rajam wrote: >> >>Dear Indology List, Suresh, Palaniappan ? >> >> >>Thank you immensely for discussing this topic and bringing out the details to the unknown. >> >> >>I just wanted to share some sporadic thoughts, which have been painful for me over the years. >> >> >>There?s a problem of methodology here.? >> >> >_______________________________________________ >INDOLOGY mailing list >INDOLOGY at list.indology.info >http://listinfo.indology.info > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From d.wujastyk at gmail.com Tue Apr 7 13:10:42 2015 From: d.wujastyk at gmail.com (Dagmar Wujastyk) Date: Tue, 07 Apr 15 15:10:42 +0200 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Postdoctoral research position at Vienna university Message-ID: Dear colleagues, May I bring your attention to a job offer for the position of postdoctoral research assistant at the University of Vienna (see the job description below)? Please feel free to disseminate this. Many thanks, and kind regards, Dagmar Wujastyk We are offering a full-time position (2yrs+3yrs) as postdoctoral research assistant to contribute to the ERC Starting Grant project ?Medicine, Immortality, Moksha: Entangled Histories of Yoga, Ayurveda and Alchemy in South Asia.? The project is located at the department for South Asian, Tibetan and Buddhist Studies of the University of Vienna. The position is to be filled from 1st July 2015 or at the earliest possible time until 30th June 2017, with the possibility of a further three years extension. The gross salary for the full time position will be in the range ? 49.644,00 -- ? 55.003,20 per annum. Candidates must hold a PhD degree in Indology, South Asian studies or related fields. Eligibility criteria include excellent knowledge of Sanskrit and/or classical Tamil and interest in medieval yoga literature. Experience in working with manuscripts, expertise in ha?hayoga literature, Tamil (Siddha) medical literature, ayurvedic literature and rasa??stra literature would be advantageous. The successful candidate will work as part of a team of three postdoctoral researchers in an ERC-funded project that will examine the histories of yoga, ayurveda and rasa??stra from the tenth century to the present, focussing on the disciplines' health, rejuvenation and longevity practices. The goals of the project are to reveal the entanglements of these historical traditions, and to trace the trajectories of their evolution as components of today's global healthcare and personal development industries. Please refer to the project?s website ayuryog.org for further details on the project. The successful candidate?s research will focus on the influence of ayurveda and rasa??stra on ha?hayoga traditions and/or Siddha medicine between the twelfth and the eighteenth centuries, translating and analysing ha?hayoga/Siddha texts from that period. Applications should include copies of degree certificates, curriculum vitae, a one page motivation statement, and list of publications (if applicable). Please email applications in the form of a single PDF to Dr. Dagmar Wujastyk (d.wujastyk(at)gmail.com), quoting ?AYURYOG application? in the subject line. The deadline for applications is the 1st of May 2015. For further information on the project, please refer to the project website at ayuryog.org . -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jean-luc.chevillard at univ-paris-diderot.fr Tue Apr 7 13:50:24 2015 From: jean-luc.chevillard at univ-paris-diderot.fr (Jean-Luc Chevillard) Date: Tue, 07 Apr 15 15:50:24 +0200 Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_[INDOLOGY]_Dravidian_etymologies_for_'makara',_vi=E1=B9=ADa=E1=B9=85kar_etc.?= In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <5523E0A0.7040508@univ-paris-diderot.fr> Dear Herman, you might be interested to hear that, a little more than 48hours ago, (on Easter early morning :-), I have finally decided that it was worth the effort to turn the CTamil list into a MODERATED list, because it migh possibly resurrect it from its occasional sorry state For many years, I have hesitated (because doing the MODERATION job is not attractive), but finally ALEA JACTA EST Best wishes -- Jean-Luc (Hamburg) "https://univ-paris-diderot.academia.edu/JeanLucChevillard" "https://plus.google.com/u/0/113653379205101980081/posts/p/pub" "https://twitter.com/JLC1956" On 07/04/2015 08:54, Tieken, H.J.H. wrote: > Dear list members, > Quite recently I have unsubscribed myself from the Classical Tamil list because it was completely monopolized by Naga Ganesan, only to discover that the discussion about the nonsense produced by him has now moved on to the Indology list. Could we please show some more self-restraint and ignore him. > With kind regards, Herman > > Herman Tieken > Stationsweg 58 > 2515 BP Den Haag > The Netherlands > 00 31 (0)70 2208127 > website: hermantieken.com > ________________________________ > Van: INDOLOGY [indology-bounces at list.indology.info] namens rajam [rajam at earthlink.net] > Verzonden: dinsdag 7 april 2015 3:16 > Aan: Sudalaimuthu Palaniappan > CC: Indology > Onderwerp: Re: [INDOLOGY] Dravidian etymologies for 'makara', vi?a?kar etc. > > Dear Indology List, Suresh, Palaniappan ? > > Thank you immensely for discussing this topic and bringing out the details to the unknown. > > I just wanted to share some sporadic thoughts, which have been painful for me over the years. > > There?s a problem of methodology here. > > (i) The saddest situation is that many Westerners (scholars or not) have been somehow captivated by Naga.Ganesan?s (NG?s) gesture, and have been exploited by him. NG has been promoting himself as someone who helps Westerners with his knowledge of this and that. I?ve heard that he?d send books/computers ? and people would fall at his feet for that gesture!! How sick! I know for sure that a few of my academic colleagues have fallen a prey. These academic colleagues are so lame to do their own research but would ask NG for ready reference and there you go ? a pile of Googlish junk at hand for those lazy Westerners to extrapolate. > > (ii) Our teacher Auvai Duraicami Pillai explained to us that ?viTankar? (vi?ankar) was ?one formed without being chiseled.? > > (iia) In any case, ?i?ankar? (for crocodile in ca?kam texts) and ?vitankar? (for referring to ?iva in bhakti texts) are NOT related. > > (iii) The Internet has been harboring a lot of unfortunate mishmashings. > > ++++++++++++++ > > I sincerely thank the Indology List for maintaining its integrity. > > Thanks and regards, > V.S.Rajam > > > > On Apr 6, 2015, at 11:09 AM, Sudalaimuthu Palaniappan via INDOLOGY > wrote: > > > Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] Dravidian etymologies for 'makara', vi?a?kar etc. > From: Sudalaimuthu Palaniappan > > Date: April 6, 2015 at 11:07:48 AM PDT > Cc: Indology >, "ctamil at services.cnrs.fr" > > To: "Suresh suresh.kolichala" > > > > Dear Suresh, > > The article on Meru in the recent IJJS issue posted by Peter Flugel reminded me that I have to discuss some issues related to Ganesan?s etymologies regarding makara, etc.. > > Thank you for mentioning in your Indology message of January 24, 2015 the discussion in the CTamil list.[1] In your post, you said: > > ?Here Ganesan refers to Rajeshwari Ghose's book [15], but it is clear that Ganesan hasn't read her conclusions or purposefully avoids mentioning them.? > > This observation of yours needs some additional comments. > > I apologize for the length of this message commenting on your observation. I shall first discuss whether Ganesan has not read Ghose?s conclusions or purposefully avoids mentioning them in response to you. In doing that I shall update the information provided by Ghose and also explain why Na?ar?ja in Tanjore temple was probably called Dak?i?a M?ru Vi?a?kar. Next I shall discuss Ganesan?s past behavior of selective withholding of information that contradicted his view and even presenting false information in connection with encoding of Grantha script in Unicode. (Some members of this list were involved in evaluating such information.) Finally, I shall discuss the implications of Ganesan's thesis for Indology in general and comparative Dravidian linguistics and Tamil philology in particular. Those interested in the details can read on. > > Ganesan?s use of Ghose?s book > In order to explore the question of whether Ganesan purposefully avoids mentioning Ghose?s conclusions, his response to you at https://listes.services.cnrs.fr/wws/arc/ctamil/2015-01/msg00039.html is useful. > > In his response to you, Ganesan has cited Ghose using the term Vi?a?kar to refer to the li?ga on pp. 51, 139, and 140 of her book. What Ghose has given on p. 51 is endnote 61 in which she says: > "...though the Chidambaram candramaul??vara is made of crystal and it seems most likely that it is this, which is referred to as Tillai Vi?a?kar in epigraphs". > > Ghose points to endnote 61 on p. 30 in the main body of the text. In the immediate next paragraph on p.30, Ghose says: > "The term Vi?a?ka is now unquestioningly accepted as of Sanskritic origin and etymologically split into vi+?a?ka 'one made without the use of the chisel' and consequently a svayambh? or self-manifested li?ga and it is this self manifestation which makes it specially sacred. It seems unlikely that this is what the word meant in earlier times in Tamil literature and epigraphy." > > After further discussing other lexical meanings of Vi?a?ka and even its tantric meaning, Rajeshwari Ghose says on p.31: > "The term Vi?a?ka or its honorific form Vi?a?kar, when used in the ?aiva canonical works often has the connotation of something beautiful.? [2] > > Thus when Ghose says on p. 139, "At twelve o'clock the abhi?eka is done to the marakata Vi?a?kar (the emerald linga) in the Ty?gar?ja shrine," she is simply using the term as currently used in the temple. The same is true for p. 140 too. But, as Ghose notes on p. 30, she doubts if this usage prevailed in earlier times. > > This leads one to wonder why Ganesan refers to a footnote mentioned by Ghose in one paragraph but does not mention a conclusion of hers given in the very next paragraph? I do not believe that lack of reading the following paragraph could be the reason. > > It should also be noted that Ghose wrote on p. 35 that "Though no iconographical descriptions of the Vi?a?kar are given by the T?v?ram writers or by the epigraphs, the fact that nowadays processional images are Som?skandas makes it probable that the Vi?a?kas were Som?skandas in the Pallava and C??a times as well.? This statement by Ghose needs to be updated. R. Nagaswamy, the epigraphist, does give an iconographic description of Vi?a?kar as representing an anthropomorphic icon in the introduction in his later book "B?had??vara Temple: Form and Meaning", Aryan Publications, 2010, p. 2 (see http://ignca.nic.in/kp_10.htm) as given below: > > "An inscription of R?jar?ja Co?a I discovered by me reveals for the first time, the complete iconography of a metal image (copper) called Mah?m?ru-Vi?a?kar consecrated by R?jar?ja, which consists of ?iva with his consort P?rvat?, seated on the mountain M?ru with his two sons, Gane?a and Subrahma?ya, and other deities like S?rya, Candra, V??abha, dwarfs and a tree. Such a group of images on the mountain M?ru, made of metal, is unique in the history of South India and has not been known to exist or has been referred to anywhere in Tamil Nadu. Another image made of copper also consecrated by R?jar?ja was called Dak?i?a M?ru-Vi?a?kar alias ??avall?r, the dancing form of Na?ar?ja. These two images - Mah?m?ru-Vi?a?kar and Dak?i?a-M?ru-Vi?a?kar - are mentioned as the two principal metal images in the temple in many inscriptions."[3] > > In the above inscription, Mah?m?ru referred to the mythical M?ru mountain supposed to be in the north. Dak???a M?ru referred to the Chidambaram temple. The Chidambaram temple was probably called Dak?i?a M?ru because its roof was covered with gold shingles.[4] Dak?i?a-M?ru-Vi?a?kar meant ?the beautiful one of Chidambaram? or Na?ar?ja. > > In fact, these are not the only inscriptions that clearly link the use of ?Vi?a?kar? to refer to Som?skanda or Na?ar?ja, both being non-naked forms of ?iva. In an inscription of 1060 CE in the Some?varasv?mi temple in Punganur, in Chittoor District in Andhra Pradesh, two icons were mentioned as being installed.[5] One was called ?Um?skanda sahita tirum?ni Vijayar?ja Vi?a?kar? and the other was ?Tirucci??ampalamu?aiy?r ?r?kara?a Vi?a?kar?. The first one was the Som?skanda icon and the second one was the Na?ar?ja icon. The name ?r?kara?a Vi?a?kar clearly indicates ?the beautiful one (who is performing) the sacred kara?a?. The second one was also referred to as ???aval?r ?r?kara?avi?a?kar? elsewhere in the inscription. That Natar?ja was called ?Vi?a?kar? is proven by this inscription. Similarl! y, anoth er inscription of 1070 CE in Mugavadi in the same district mentions a Som?skanda icon as ?Um?skanda sahita tirum?nik K?r??ai Vi?a?kar?.[6] > > Thus there is clear epigraphic and iconographic confirmation that Vi?a?ka?/Vi?a?kar did not have any association with phallus or nudity in earlier times. > > Given all these attested uses of Vi?a?ka meaning 'beauteous', it is interesting that Ganesan has not answered your question as to why he considers DEDR 5472 meaning for Vi?a?ka is incorrect. Instead he has chosen to repeat his fantasies as facts in his response. Interestingly, in a post sent to some Internet lists (https://groups.google.com/d/msg/mintamil/lC7RRAFRb7c/kuP2K9jmd2MJ), Ganesan cites V. M. Subramanya Aiyar in connection with T?v?ram 7.36 but fails to note that Aiyar interprets vi?a?ku as 'beauty' in T?v?ram 7.36.10 (http://www.ifpindia.org/digitaldb/site/digital_tevaram/U_TEV/VMS7_036.HTM#p10). > > Ganesan?s past use of data in support of his views: > Ganesan does have a history of selectively withholding information or presenting even fabricated information in order to promote his viewpoint. See http://www.unicode.org/L2/L2011/11026-infitt-wg02-reports.pdf for a report, which critically evaluated the evidence offered by Ganesan to support his proposal to the Unicode Technical Committee to add some Tamil-specific characters to the Grantha script. (Mani Manivannan, the author of this report, is also a CTamil member. Ganesan's proposal can be accessed at http://www.unicode.org/L2/L2009/09345-grantha.pdf. ) > > Manivannan's report describes a special meeting arranged at Ecole fran?aise d'Extr?me-Orient (EFEO), Pudhucceri on December 22, 2010 to evaluate Ganesan's proposal. A few members of our Indology list, participated in that meeting (see p.2 of the report) too. The report presents evidence of Ganesan selectively withholding information contradicting his case (see p. 8 of the report) as well as offering textual evidence from a non-existent publication from a non-existent organization, i.e., Samskrita Granthalipi Sabha (see pp. 12-13 of the report). (In spite of many requests since 2010, Ganesan has not provided the contact information for the Samskrita Granthalipi Sabha.) This modus operandi of his may suggest if he has not read Ghose?s conclusions or purposefully avoided mentioning them. > > As is his habit in discussions like this, Ganesan has made sure that his CTamil post, in which he repeated his fantasies as facts, was the last in the thread as though he has won the scholarly debate. Also, after his response to you in CTamil list, he has posted in some Tamil lists the contents of his response to your CTamil message. See https://groups.google.com/d/msg/mintamil/lC7RRAFRb7c/kuP2K9jmd2MJ. He has also posted the contents of another post in CTamil with a preface in Tamil that suggests that he has shown you how *moka?ay gives rise to makara in the Indus region and moca?e in Kannada in https://groups.google.com/d/msg/mintamil/lC7RRAFRb7c/3iCIpf3m3RAJ. (Thus, he has changed his reconstruction of the word for crocodile from *mokaray to *moka?ay.) For the most part, the members of these lists are not comparative linguists. Many may not have access to the resources such as the book by Rajeshwari Ghose. So when he deliberately withholds relevant information con! tradicti ng his case, many members of these lists may be misled into believing that Ganesan's fantasies are facts indeed. > > You may remember that the two lists, CTamil and Indo-Eurasian Research, were set up after the old Indology list restricted its membership. Ganesan was a member of both lists initially. When he tried to post his fantasies on the Indo-Eurasian Research list, he was asked not to do so and was later expelled from the list. > > Implications for Indology > One of the reasons for a detailed discussion of Ganesan's work is that he has said that he is going to present a paper on this topic at the upcoming World Sanskrit Conference in Thailand, which many Sanskritists may attend. I hope they find the comparative Dravidian and Tamil philological information discussed here useful. > > More importantly, the support Ganesan?s view enjoys among Indologists such as Prof. Nachimuthu raises serious questions about the present state of comparative Dravidian linguistics and Tamil philology in India. After all, Nachimuthu was the Chairperson of Center of Indian Languages (CIL) at Jawaharlal Nehru University (JNU) in Delhi and is currently the Head of the Department of Tamil at the Central University of Tamil Nadu at Tiruv?r?r. His specialized/applied areas of research are supposed to be classical literature, grammar, and linguistics. Nachimuthu is also on the Tamil Research and Translation faculty of International School of Dravidian Linguistics (ISDL). See http://www.ijdl.org/Html/Members.htm. > > According to ISDL, ?The Faculty is recruited only by invitation from among scholars of repute.? If such a reputed scholar cannot realize the fallacies in Ganesan?s Makara-Vi?a?kar thesis, the state of scholarship in Tamil philology and comparative Dravidian linguistics in India is a cause for concern indeed. As for ISDL, they seemed to have agreed to publish Ganesan?s paper with the bad reconstruction, *mokaray. Now that he has changed *mokaray to *moka?ay--still a bad reconstruction--I do not know what ISDL will do. It looks like ISDL did not ask any comparative Dravidian linguist to review Ganesan?s paper. Ironically, ISDL also has Prof. P. S. Subrahmanyam, the reputed comparative Dravidian linguist, on its Linguistics Faculty! > > Regards, > Palaniappan > > ________________________________ > [1] http://list.indology.info/pipermail/indology_list.indology.info/2015-January/040639.html > [2] Actually, the ?aiva canonical works use Vi?a?ka or its honorific form Vi?a?kar to connote something beautiful not merely ?often? but in every instance. Ghose has used ?often? because she has erroneously taken the use of ?Vi?a?ka? in T?v?ram 4.81.9 to refer to the li?ga in Chidambaram (p. 36). Thus, she implies T?v?ram 4.81.9 to be the earliest use of Vi?a?ka in connection with a li?ga while earlier it simply meant something beautiful. As explained by V. M. Subramaniya Ayyar in Digital Tev?ram, Vi?a?ka means ?beautiful? in T?v?ram 4.81.9 too. (See http://www.ifpindia.org/digitaldb/site/digital_tevaram/U_TEV/DM4_81.HTM#p9) Ghose did not make use of the comparative linguistic evidence provided by Dravidian Etymological Dictionary entry #5472. If she had, she would have concluded the meaning of Vi?a?kar to be ?a beautif! ul perso n? much more definitely. > [3] Clearly V??a?kar referring to an anthropomorphic ?iva is earlier than Vi?a?kar referring to a li?ga since we have "Dak?i?a M?ru-Vi?a?kar alias ??avall?r" referring to Na?ar?ja in Tanjavur. Moreover, literary texts such as Tiruppall???u 4 by C?nta??r (ca. 10th century) and Tiruvicaipp? 10 by Tirum??ikaitt?var (10th/11th century) clearly refer to Chidambaram Na?ar?ja as Vi?a?ka? meaning 'a person of beauty'. Campantar in T?v?ram 3.68.5 refers to ?iva dancing in Kail?sa as 'na?am taru vi?a?ka?' (dancing Vi?a?ka?) which scholars have interpreted as 'dancing person of beauty' (see http://www.thevaaram.org/thirumurai_1/onepage.php?thiru=3&Song_idField=3068). > [4] Periyapur??am 250 and 2071 compare the P?rampalam in the Chidambaram temple to M?ru because of its roof gilded with gold by Kulottu?ga C??a II in the 12th century. But the Ci??ampalam, the central shrine of Na?ar?ja seems to have had the gold roof from the time of T?v?ram 5.2.8. > [5] SII 22, no. 541 > [6] SII 22, no. 573 > > > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > http://listinfo.indology.info > > > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > http://listinfo.indology.info > From martin.gansten at pbhome.se Tue Apr 7 14:53:49 2015 From: martin.gansten at pbhome.se (Martin Gansten) Date: Tue, 07 Apr 15 16:53:49 +0200 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Tukaram and the name Tuka In-Reply-To: <5522D488.7000503@u.washington.edu> Message-ID: <5523EF7D.7000809@pbhome.se> Many thanks to all who contributed to this discussion. To sum up, Tuka/Tukka may well be a Marathi name (many notable astrological authors from this period were from Maharashtra) and may or may not be related to the name of the goddess Tuk? (whose name in turn may be a Dravidized form of Durg?). The suggestion Tuka < Turu?ka is noted, too, but the author in question wrote at least one scholarly work in Sanskrit verse, which seems to make a Muslim background unlikely (though not completely unheard of). Martin Gansten From V.Sasson at marianopolis.edu Wed Apr 8 00:31:10 2015 From: V.Sasson at marianopolis.edu (Vanessa Sasson) Date: Wed, 08 Apr 15 00:31:10 +0000 Subject: [INDOLOGY] archery question Message-ID: <73C8D05F0B9DFC4D84EA02AFC695DD08B141C50A@Boisvert.marianopolis.com> Dear colleagues, I am trying to imagine what archery would have been like in ancient India (roughly 2500-2000 years ago). I am interested in archery techniques as well as archery materials (what would the bows and arrows have been made of?). Can anyone recommend some materials on this subject? I have been looking around, but have not yet found quite what I am looking for. It is for purposes of imagining the art more than anything else. Many thanks, Vanessa R. Sasson Religious Studies Marianopolis College -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rsalomon at u.washington.edu Wed Apr 8 00:36:12 2015 From: rsalomon at u.washington.edu (Richard Salomon) Date: Tue, 07 Apr 15 17:36:12 -0700 Subject: [INDOLOGY] archery question In-Reply-To: <73C8D05F0B9DFC4D84EA02AFC695DD08B141C50A@Boisvert.marianopolis.com> Message-ID: <552477FC.80205@u.washington.edu> On materials (with illustrations), see M. Emeneau's "The Composite Bow in India," in Proceedings of the American Philosophical Society 97 (1953), 77-87. Rich Salomon On 4/7/2015 5:31 PM, Vanessa Sasson wrote: > Dear colleagues, > > I am trying to imagine what archery would have been like in ancient > India (roughly 2500-2000 years ago). I am interested in archery > techniques as well as archery materials (what would the bows and arrows > have been made of?). Can anyone recommend some materials on this > subject? I have been looking around, but have not yet found quite what I > am looking for. It is for purposes of imagining the art more than > anything else. > > Many thanks, > > Vanessa R. Sasson > > Religious Studies > > Marianopolis College > > > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > http://listinfo.indology.info > -- ---------------------- Richard Salomon Department of Asian Languages and Literature University of Washington, Box 353521 Seattle WA 98195-3521 USA From Vincent.Eltschinger at oeaw.ac.at Wed Apr 8 01:06:46 2015 From: Vincent.Eltschinger at oeaw.ac.at (Eltschinger, Vincent) Date: Wed, 08 Apr 15 01:06:46 +0000 Subject: [INDOLOGY] archery question In-Reply-To: <552477FC.80205@u.washington.edu> Message-ID: Worth mentioning in passing might be episodes from the Buddha legend, especially from the Lalitavistara, where the bodhisattva is depicted as defeating all his young ??kya colleagues. Sculptural representations of the (series of) episode(s), especially in Gandh?ran art, are numerous. A good starting point is certainly Isao Kurita, Gandh?ran Art, I, The Buddha's Life Story, especially pp. 54-55; other reproductions can be found in W. Zwalf, A Catalogue of Gandh?ra Sculpture in the British Museum, vol. II, unfortunately unavailable to me right now. Nobody knows what another might find in textual or iconographic sources, so why not give it a try... Best, Vincent Eltschinger Doz. Dr. Vincent Eltschinger Institute for the Cultural and Intellectual History of Asia Austrian Academy of Sciences Apostelgasse 23 A-1030 Vienna Vincent.Eltschinger at oeaw.ac.at 0043 1 51581 6434 0043 664 9150095 ________________________________________ Von: INDOLOGY [indology-bounces at list.indology.info]" im Auftrag von "Richard Salomon [rsalomon at u.washington.edu] Gesendet: Mittwoch, 8. April 2015 02:36 An: indology at list.indology.info Betreff: Re: [INDOLOGY] archery question On materials (with illustrations), see M. Emeneau's "The Composite Bow in India," in Proceedings of the American Philosophical Society 97 (1953), 77-87. Rich Salomon On 4/7/2015 5:31 PM, Vanessa Sasson wrote: > Dear colleagues, > > I am trying to imagine what archery would have been like in ancient > India (roughly 2500-2000 years ago). I am interested in archery > techniques as well as archery materials (what would the bows and arrows > have been made of?). Can anyone recommend some materials on this > subject? I have been looking around, but have not yet found quite what I > am looking for. It is for purposes of imagining the art more than > anything else. > > Many thanks, > > Vanessa R. Sasson > > Religious Studies > > Marianopolis College > > > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > http://listinfo.indology.info > -- ---------------------- Richard Salomon Department of Asian Languages and Literature University of Washington, Box 353521 Seattle WA 98195-3521 USA _______________________________________________ INDOLOGY mailing list INDOLOGY at list.indology.info http://listinfo.indology.info From slaje at kabelmail.de Wed Apr 8 05:30:02 2015 From: slaje at kabelmail.de (Walter Slaje) Date: Wed, 08 Apr 15 07:30:02 +0200 Subject: [INDOLOGY] archery question In-Reply-To: <73C8D05F0B9DFC4D84EA02AFC695DD08B141C50A@Boisvert.marianopolis.com> Message-ID: Benefit will also be drawn from consulting Robert Krottenthaler, Die Jagd im alten Indien. [Europ?ische Hochschulschriften. XXVII, 49]. Frankfurt/M. 1996. Mehr Ali Newid: Waffen und R?stungen im alten Indien. M?nchen 1986. Regards, WS ----------------------------- Prof. Dr. Walter Slaje Hermann-L?ns-Str. 1 D-99425 Weimar Deutschland Ego ex animi mei sententia spondeo ac polliceor studia humanitatis impigro labore culturum et provecturum non sordidi lucri causa nec ad vanam captandam gloriam, sed quo magis veritas propagetur et lux eius, qua salus humani generis continetur, clarius effulgeat. Vindobonae, die XXI. mensis Novembris MCMLXXXIII. 2015-04-08 2:31 GMT+02:00 Vanessa Sasson : > Dear colleagues, > > > > I am trying to imagine what archery would have been like in ancient India > (roughly 2500-2000 years ago). I am interested in archery techniques as > well as archery materials (what would the bows and arrows have been made > of?). Can anyone recommend some materials on this subject? I have been > looking around, but have not yet found quite what I am looking for. It is > for purposes of imagining the art more than anything else. > > > > Many thanks, > > > > Vanessa R. Sasson > > Religious Studies > > Marianopolis College > > > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > http://listinfo.indology.info > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anurupa.n at ifpindia.org Wed Apr 8 05:55:16 2015 From: anurupa.n at ifpindia.org (Anurupa Naik) Date: Wed, 08 Apr 15 11:25:16 +0530 Subject: [INDOLOGY] archery question In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <5524C2C4.3010802@ifpindia.org> Some more references: /Indian archery // G. N. Pant ; foreword W. F. Paterson.-- .-- Delhi : Agam Kala Prakashan, 1978. xxii, 416 p.: plates, ill.; 25 cm. /Indian arms and armour/ / G. N. Pant.-- .-- New Delhi : Army Educational Stores, 1978-1980. 3 v.: plates, ill., map; 34 cm. Vol. 1. /Pre-and protohistoric weapons and archery/ vol. 2. /Swords and daggers/ vol. 3./Human armour and shield/ /Vasis?t?ha's Dhanurveda Sam?hit? : text with English translation/ / translated into English by Purnima Ray.-- .-- Delhi : J.P. Publishing House, 1997. [6], 80, 10 p. of b&w ill.; 22 cm. With best wishes, Anurupa Ms. Anurupa Naik Head, Library and Publication Division French Institute of Pondicherry (IFP) UMIFRE 21 CNRS-MAEE P.B. 33 11, St. Louis Street Pondicherry-605 001, INDIA On 08-04-2015 11:00, Walter Slaje wrote: > Benefit will also be drawn from consulting > > Robert Krottenthaler, Die Jagd im alten Indien. > [Europ?ische Hochschulschriften. XXVII, 49]. Frankfurt/M. 1996. > > Mehr Ali Newid: Waffen und R?stungen im alten Indien. M?nchen 1986. > > Regards, > WS > > ----------------------------- > Prof. Dr. Walter Slaje > Hermann-L?ns-Str. 1 > D-99425 Weimar > Deutschland > > Ego ex animi mei sententia spondeo ac polliceor > studia humanitatis impigro labore culturum et provecturum > non sordidi lucri causa nec ad vanam captandam gloriam, > sed quo magis veritas propagetur et lux eius, qua salus > humani generis continetur, clarius effulgeat. > Vindobonae, die XXI. mensis Novembris MCMLXXXIII. > > 2015-04-08 2:31 GMT+02:00 Vanessa Sasson >: > > Dear colleagues, > > I am trying to imagine what archery would have been like in > ancient India (roughly 2500-2000 years ago). I am interested in > archery techniques as well as archery materials (what would the > bows and arrows have been made of?). Can anyone recommend some > materials on this subject? I have been looking around, but have > not yet found quite what I am looking for. It is for purposes of > imagining the art more than anything else. > > Many thanks, > > Vanessa R. Sasson > > Religious Studies > > Marianopolis College > > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > http://listinfo.indology.info > > > > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > http://listinfo.indology.info -- Ms. Anurupa Naik Head, Library and Publication Division French Institute of Pondicherry (IFP) UMIFRE 21 CNRS-MAEE P.B. 33 11, St. Louis Street Pondicherry-605 001, INDIA Tel: 91-413-2231660 Fax: 91-413-2231605 e-mail: anurupa.n at ifpindia.org website: www.ifpindia.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From psdmccartney at gmail.com Wed Apr 8 06:43:49 2015 From: psdmccartney at gmail.com (patrick mccartney) Date: Wed, 08 Apr 15 12:13:49 +0530 Subject: [INDOLOGY] archery question In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Dear Vanessa, While the 2,200 year old complete crossbow recently discovered amongst the terracotta warriors in Xi'an, China is not from ancient India, perhaps it is still interesting to see a beautiful example of similar technology from the date range you seek. http://www.ancient-origins.net/news-history-archaeology/excellently-preserved-crossbow-2200-years-ago-terracotta-020269 All the best, Patrick McCartney PhD Candidate School of Culture, History & Language College of the Asia-Pacific The Australian National University Canberra, Australia, 0200 Skype - psdmccartney Australia: +61 487 398 354 Germany: +49 157 5469 4045 India: +91 98 73 893 945 - *https://www.linkedin.com/profile/view?id=241756978&trk=nav_responsive_tab_profile * - *https://anu-au.academia.edu/patrickmccartney * https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xZHJVkhVBPc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LVqBD_2P4Pg On Wed, Apr 8, 2015 at 11:00 AM, Walter Slaje wrote: > Benefit will also be drawn from consulting > > Robert Krottenthaler, Die Jagd im alten Indien. > [Europ?ische Hochschulschriften. XXVII, 49]. Frankfurt/M. 1996. > > Mehr Ali Newid: Waffen und R?stungen im alten Indien. M?nchen 1986. > > Regards, > WS > > ----------------------------- > Prof. Dr. Walter Slaje > Hermann-L?ns-Str. 1 > D-99425 Weimar > Deutschland > > Ego ex animi mei sententia spondeo ac polliceor > studia humanitatis impigro labore culturum et provecturum > non sordidi lucri causa nec ad vanam captandam gloriam, > sed quo magis veritas propagetur et lux eius, qua salus > humani generis continetur, clarius effulgeat. > Vindobonae, die XXI. mensis Novembris MCMLXXXIII. > > 2015-04-08 2:31 GMT+02:00 Vanessa Sasson : > >> Dear colleagues, >> >> >> >> I am trying to imagine what archery would have been like in ancient India >> (roughly 2500-2000 years ago). I am interested in archery techniques as >> well as archery materials (what would the bows and arrows have been made >> of?). Can anyone recommend some materials on this subject? I have been >> looking around, but have not yet found quite what I am looking for. It is >> for purposes of imagining the art more than anything else. >> >> >> >> Many thanks, >> >> >> >> Vanessa R. Sasson >> >> Religious Studies >> >> Marianopolis College >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> INDOLOGY mailing list >> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info >> http://listinfo.indology.info >> > > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > http://listinfo.indology.info > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ersand at hum.ku.dk Wed Apr 8 06:54:09 2015 From: ersand at hum.ku.dk (Erik Reenberg Sand) Date: Wed, 08 Apr 15 06:54:09 +0000 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Favour? Message-ID: Dear list members, I have before me a Sanskrit manuscript bearing the title Bhagavadg?t?m?l?ma?trasya. Can someone with easy access to the New Catalogus Catalogorum please tell me whether it mentions other manuscripts of this text and, if so, perhaps, provide me with a scan of the relevant information. Thanks a lot! Regards Erik Reenberg Sand Department of Cross-Cultural and Regional Studies University of Copenhagen -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From manufrancis at gmail.com Wed Apr 8 07:03:26 2015 From: manufrancis at gmail.com (Manu Francis) Date: Wed, 08 Apr 15 09:03:26 +0200 Subject: [INDOLOGY] archery question In-Reply-To: Message-ID: See also: Auboyer, Jeannine (1956). L?arc et la fl?che dans l?iconographie ancienne de l?Inde. *Artibus Asiae* 19(3-4). Best wishes. -- Emmanuel Francis Charg? de recherche CNRS, Centre d'?tude de l'Inde et de l'Asie du Sud (UMR 8564, EHESS-CNRS, Paris) http://ceias.ehess.fr/ http://ceias.ehess.fr/index.php?1725 http://rcsi.hypotheses.org/ Associate member, Centre for the Study of Manuscript Culture (SFB 950, Universit?t Hamburg) http://www.manuscript-cultures.uni-hamburg.de/index_e.html https://cnrs.academia.edu/emmanuelfrancis 2015-04-08 8:43 GMT+02:00 patrick mccartney : > Dear Vanessa, > > While the 2,200 year old complete crossbow recently discovered amongst the > terracotta warriors in Xi'an, China is not from ancient India, perhaps it > is still interesting to see a beautiful example of similar technology from > the date range you seek. > > > http://www.ancient-origins.net/news-history-archaeology/excellently-preserved-crossbow-2200-years-ago-terracotta-020269 > > > > All the best, > > Patrick McCartney > > PhD Candidate > School of Culture, History & Language > College of the Asia-Pacific > The Australian National University > Canberra, Australia, 0200 > > > Skype - psdmccartney > > Australia: +61 487 398 354 > Germany: +49 157 5469 4045 > India: +91 98 73 893 945 > > > - *https://www.linkedin.com/profile/view?id=241756978&trk=nav_responsive_tab_profile > * > - > *https://anu-au.academia.edu/patrickmccartney > * > > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xZHJVkhVBPc > > > > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LVqBD_2P4Pg > > > > On Wed, Apr 8, 2015 at 11:00 AM, Walter Slaje wrote: > >> Benefit will also be drawn from consulting >> >> Robert Krottenthaler, Die Jagd im alten Indien. >> [Europ?ische Hochschulschriften. XXVII, 49]. Frankfurt/M. 1996. >> >> Mehr Ali Newid: Waffen und R?stungen im alten Indien. M?nchen 1986. >> >> Regards, >> WS >> >> ----------------------------- >> Prof. Dr. Walter Slaje >> Hermann-L?ns-Str. 1 >> D-99425 Weimar >> Deutschland >> >> Ego ex animi mei sententia spondeo ac polliceor >> studia humanitatis impigro labore culturum et provecturum >> non sordidi lucri causa nec ad vanam captandam gloriam, >> sed quo magis veritas propagetur et lux eius, qua salus >> humani generis continetur, clarius effulgeat. >> Vindobonae, die XXI. mensis Novembris MCMLXXXIII. >> >> 2015-04-08 2:31 GMT+02:00 Vanessa Sasson : >> >>> Dear colleagues, >>> >>> >>> >>> I am trying to imagine what archery would have been like in ancient >>> India (roughly 2500-2000 years ago). I am interested in archery techniques >>> as well as archery materials (what would the bows and arrows have been made >>> of?). Can anyone recommend some materials on this subject? I have been >>> looking around, but have not yet found quite what I am looking for. It is >>> for purposes of imagining the art more than anything else. >>> >>> >>> >>> Many thanks, >>> >>> >>> >>> Vanessa R. Sasson >>> >>> Religious Studies >>> >>> Marianopolis College >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> INDOLOGY mailing list >>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info >>> http://listinfo.indology.info >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> INDOLOGY mailing list >> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info >> http://listinfo.indology.info >> > > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > http://listinfo.indology.info > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ersand at hum.ku.dk Wed Apr 8 08:19:10 2015 From: ersand at hum.ku.dk (Erik Reenberg Sand) Date: Wed, 08 Apr 15 08:19:10 +0000 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Favour? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Dear all, Many thanks to Sas Sarma and Hartmut Buescher for helping me out so quickly! Best Erik Fra: INDOLOGY [mailto:indology-bounces at list.indology.info] P? vegne af Erik Reenberg Sand Sendt: 8. april 2015 08:54 Til: indology at list.indology.info Emne: [INDOLOGY] Favour? Dear list members, I have before me a Sanskrit manuscript bearing the title Bhagavadg?t?m?l?ma?trasya. Can someone with easy access to the New Catalogus Catalogorum please tell me whether it mentions other manuscripts of this text and, if so, perhaps, provide me with a scan of the relevant information. Thanks a lot! Regards Erik Reenberg Sand Department of Cross-Cultural and Regional Studies University of Copenhagen -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From wujastyk at gmail.com Wed Apr 8 12:34:39 2015 From: wujastyk at gmail.com (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Wed, 08 Apr 15 14:34:39 +0200 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Favour? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: ?Almost all MSS of the *Bhagavadg?t?* have this M?l? text at the beginning, whether or not it is mentioned in catalogue entries. Rather few BG MSS actually begin "dharmak?etre kuruk?etre ..." in my experience. Best, Dominik ? On 8 April 2015 at 08:54, Erik Reenberg Sand wrote: > , -- Dr Dominik Wujastyk Department of South Asia, Tibetan and Buddhist Studies , University of Vienna, Spitalgasse 2-4, Courtyard 2, Entrance 2.1 1090 Vienna, Austria and Adjunct Professor, Division of Health and Humanities, St. John's Research Institute, Bangalore, India. Project | home page | HSSA | PGP -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ersand at hum.ku.dk Wed Apr 8 15:26:46 2015 From: ersand at hum.ku.dk (Erik Reenberg Sand) Date: Wed, 08 Apr 15 15:26:46 +0000 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Favour? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Dear Dominic, I bow at your feet. I just checked with a MS in my possession and found the text there. It only shows how important it is for us to consult the MS-tradition! Thanks! Best Erik Fra: Dominik Wujastyk [mailto:wujastyk at gmail.com] Sendt: 8. april 2015 14:35 Til: Erik Reenberg Sand Cc: indology at list.indology.info Emne: Re: [INDOLOGY] Favour? ?Almost all MSS of the Bhagavadg?t? have this M?l? text at the beginning, whether or not it is mentioned in catalogue entries. Rather few BG MSS actually begin "dharmak?etre kuruk?etre ..." in my experience. Best, Dominik ? On 8 April 2015 at 08:54, Erik Reenberg Sand > wrote: , -- Dr Dominik Wujastyk Department of South Asia, Tibetan and Buddhist Studies, University of Vienna, Spitalgasse 2-4, Courtyard 2, Entrance 2.1 1090 Vienna, Austria and Adjunct Professor, Division of Health and Humanities, St. John's Research Institute, Bangalore, India. Project | home page | HSSA | PGP -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Palaniappa at aol.com Wed Apr 8 18:18:37 2015 From: Palaniappa at aol.com (Sudalaimuthu Palaniappan) Date: Wed, 08 Apr 15 13:18:37 -0500 Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_[INDOLOGY]_Dravidian_etymologies_for_'makara',_vi=E1=B9=ADa=E1=B9=85kar_etc.?= In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Dear Dr. Tieken, I have shared your concern regarding Ganesan monopolizing the CTamil list even though I was not a member of that list. I have ignored him distorting my views in a CTamil post. However, Ganesan cannot be ignored in toto because in the past his actions have had serious Indological consequences. For instance, his proposal for Grantha encoding in Unicode, which had included endorsements from some Indologists, would have had adverse effects on the accurate processing of epigraphic data. Only at the last minute his suggestions were prevented from adoption by Unicode. This could not be handled at the scholarly level alone. It ended up involving the Chief Minister of Tamil Nadu and the Government of India?s Minister of Teleommunications. (See http://www.newindianexpress.com/states/tamil_nadu/article278530.ece?pageToolsFontSize=130%25 and http://www.unicode.org/L2/L2011/11182-grantha-letter.pdf .) Regards, Palaniappan > On Apr 7, 2015, at 1:54 AM, Tieken, H.J.H. wrote: > > Dear list members, > Quite recently I have unsubscribed myself from the Classical Tamil list because it was completely monopolized by Naga Ganesan, only to discover that the discussion about the nonsense produced by him has now moved on to the Indology list. Could we please show some more self-restraint and ignore him. > With kind regards, Herman > > Herman Tieken > Stationsweg 58 > 2515 BP Den Haag > The Netherlands > 00 31 (0)70 2208127 > website: hermantieken.com > Van: INDOLOGY [indology-bounces at list.indology.info ] namens rajam [rajam at earthlink.net ] > Verzonden: dinsdag 7 april 2015 3:16 > Aan: Sudalaimuthu Palaniappan > CC: Indology > Onderwerp: Re: [INDOLOGY] Dravidian etymologies for 'makara', vi?a?kar etc. > > Dear Indology List, Suresh, Palaniappan ? > > Thank you immensely for discussing this topic and bringing out the details to the unknown. > > I just wanted to share some sporadic thoughts, which have been painful for me over the years. > > There?s a problem of methodology here. > > (i) The saddest situation is that many Westerners (scholars or not) have been somehow captivated by Naga.Ganesan?s (NG?s) gesture, and have been exploited by him. NG has been promoting himself as someone who helps Westerners with his knowledge of this and that. I?ve heard that he?d send books/computers ? and people would fall at his feet for that gesture!! How sick! I know for sure that a few of my academic colleagues have fallen a prey. These academic colleagues are so lame to do their own research but would ask NG for ready reference and there you go ? a pile of Googlish junk at hand for those lazy Westerners to extrapolate. > > (ii) Our teacher Auvai Duraicami Pillai explained to us that ?viTankar? (vi?ankar) was ?one formed without being chiseled.? > > (iia) In any case, ?i?ankar? (for crocodile in ca?kam texts) and ?vitankar? (for referring to ?iva in bhakti texts) are NOT related. > > (iii) The Internet has been harboring a lot of unfortunate mishmashings. > > ++++++++++++++ > > I sincerely thank the Indology List for maintaining its integrity. > > Thanks and regards, > V.S.Rajam > > > >> On Apr 6, 2015, at 11:09 AM, Sudalaimuthu Palaniappan via INDOLOGY > wrote: >> >> >> Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] Dravidian etymologies for 'makara', vi?a?kar etc. >> From: Sudalaimuthu Palaniappan > >> Date: April 6, 2015 at 11:07:48 AM PDT >> Cc: Indology >, "ctamil at services.cnrs.fr " > >> To: "Suresh suresh.kolichala" > >> >> >> Dear Suresh, >> >> The article on Meru in the recent IJJS issue posted by Peter Flugel reminded me that I have to discuss some issues related to Ganesan?s etymologies regarding makara, etc.. >> >> Thank you for mentioning in your Indology message of January 24, 2015 the discussion in the CTamil list.[1] In your post, you said: >> >> ?Here Ganesan refers to Rajeshwari Ghose's book [15], but it is clear that Ganesan hasn't read her conclusions or purposefully avoids mentioning them.? >> >> This observation of yours needs some additional comments. >> >> I apologize for the length of this message commenting on your observation. I shall first discuss whether Ganesan has not read Ghose?s conclusions or purposefully avoids mentioning them in response to you. In doing that I shall update the information provided by Ghose and also explain why Na?ar?ja in Tanjore temple was probably called Dak?i?a M?ru Vi?a?kar. Next I shall discuss Ganesan?s past behavior of selective withholding of information that contradicted his view and even presenting false information in connection with encoding of Grantha script in Unicode. (Some members of this list were involved in evaluating such information.) Finally, I shall discuss the implications of Ganesan's thesis for Indology in general and comparative Dravidian linguistics and Tamil philology in particular. Those interested in the details can read on. >> >> Ganesan?s use of Ghose?s book >> In order to explore the question of whether Ganesan purposefully avoids mentioning Ghose?s conclusions, his response to you at https://listes.services.cnrs.fr/wws/arc/ctamil/2015-01/msg00039.html is useful. >> >> In his response to you, Ganesan has cited Ghose using the term Vi?a?kar to refer to the li?ga on pp. 51, 139, and 140 of her book. What Ghose has given on p. 51 is endnote 61 in which she says: >> "...though the Chidambaram candramaul??vara is made of crystal and it seems most likely that it is this, which is referred to as Tillai Vi?a?kar in epigraphs". >> >> Ghose points to endnote 61 on p. 30 in the main body of the text. In the immediate next paragraph on p.30, Ghose says: >> "The term Vi?a?ka is now unquestioningly accepted as of Sanskritic origin and etymologically split into vi+?a?ka 'one made without the use of the chisel' and consequently a svayambh? or self-manifested li?ga and it is this self manifestation which makes it specially sacred. It seems unlikely that this is what the word meant in earlier times in Tamil literature and epigraphy." >> >> After further discussing other lexical meanings of Vi?a?ka and even its tantric meaning, Rajeshwari Ghose says on p.31: >> "The term Vi?a?ka or its honorific form Vi?a?kar, when used in the ?aiva canonical works often has the connotation of something beautiful.? [2] >> >> Thus when Ghose says on p. 139, "At twelve o'clock the abhi?eka is done to the marakata Vi?a?kar (the emerald linga) in the Ty?gar?ja shrine," she is simply using the term as currently used in the temple. The same is true for p. 140 too. But, as Ghose notes on p. 30, she doubts if this usage prevailed in earlier times. >> >> This leads one to wonder why Ganesan refers to a footnote mentioned by Ghose in one paragraph but does not mention a conclusion of hers given in the very next paragraph? I do not believe that lack of reading the following paragraph could be the reason. >> >> It should also be noted that Ghose wrote on p. 35 that "Though no iconographical descriptions of the Vi?a?kar are given by the T?v?ram writers or by the epigraphs, the fact that nowadays processional images are Som?skandas makes it probable that the Vi?a?kas were Som?skandas in the Pallava and C??a times as well.? This statement by Ghose needs to be updated. R. Nagaswamy, the epigraphist, does give an iconographic description of Vi?a?kar as representing an anthropomorphic icon in the introduction in his later book "B?had??vara Temple: Form and Meaning", Aryan Publications, 2010, p. 2 (see http://ignca.nic.in/kp_10.htm ) as given below: >> >> "An inscription of R?jar?ja Co?a I discovered by me reveals for the first time, the complete iconography of a metal image (copper) called Mah?m?ru-Vi?a?kar consecrated by R?jar?ja, which consists of ?iva with his consort P?rvat?, seated on the mountain M?ru with his two sons, Gane?a and Subrahma?ya, and other deities like S?rya, Candra, V??abha, dwarfs and a tree. Such a group of images on the mountain M?ru, made of metal, is unique in the history of South India and has not been known to exist or has been referred to anywhere in Tamil Nadu. Another image made of copper also consecrated by R?jar?ja was called Dak?i?a M?ru-Vi?a?kar alias ??avall?r, the dancing form of Na?ar?ja. These two images - Mah?m?ru-Vi?a?kar and Dak?i?a-M?ru-Vi?a?kar - are mentioned as the two principal metal images in the temple in many inscriptions."[3] >> >> In the above inscription, Mah?m?ru referred to the mythical M?ru mountain supposed to be in the north. Dak???a M?ru referred to the Chidambaram temple. The Chidambaram temple was probably called Dak?i?a M?ru because its roof was covered with gold shingles.[4] Dak?i?a-M?ru-Vi?a?kar meant ?the beautiful one of Chidambaram? or Na?ar?ja. >> >> In fact, these are not the only inscriptions that clearly link the use of ?Vi?a?kar? to refer to Som?skanda or Na?ar?ja, both being non-naked forms of ?iva. In an inscription of 1060 CE in the Some?varasv?mi temple in Punganur, in Chittoor District in Andhra Pradesh, two icons were mentioned as being installed.[5] One was called ?Um?skanda sahita tirum?ni Vijayar?ja Vi?a?kar? and the other was ?Tirucci??ampalamu?aiy?r ?r?kara?a Vi?a?kar?. The first one was the Som?skanda icon and the second one was the Na?ar?ja icon. The name ?r?kara?a Vi?a?kar clearly indicates ?the beautiful one (who is performing) the sacred kara?a?. The second one was also referred to as ???aval?r ?r?kara?avi?a?kar? elsewhere in the inscription. That Natar?ja was called ?Vi?a?kar? is proven by this inscription. Similarly, another inscription of 1070 CE in Mugavadi in the same district mentions a Som?skanda icon as ?Um?skanda sahita tirum?nik K?r??ai Vi?a?kar?.[6] >> >> Thus there is clear epigraphic and iconographic confirmation that Vi?a?ka?/Vi?a?kar did not have any association with phallus or nudity in earlier times. >> >> Given all these attested uses of Vi?a?ka meaning 'beauteous', it is interesting that Ganesan has not answered your question as to why he considers DEDR 5472 meaning for Vi?a?ka is incorrect. Instead he has chosen to repeat his fantasies as facts in his response. Interestingly, in a post sent to some Internet lists (https://groups.google.com/d/msg/mintamil/lC7RRAFRb7c/kuP2K9jmd2MJ ), Ganesan cites V. M. Subramanya Aiyar in connection with T?v?ram 7.36 but fails to note that Aiyar interprets vi?a?ku as 'beauty' in T?v?ram 7.36.10 (http://www.ifpindia.org/digitaldb/site/digital_tevaram/U_TEV/VMS7_036.HTM#p10 ). >> >> Ganesan?s past use of data in support of his views: >> Ganesan does have a history of selectively withholding information or presenting even fabricated information in order to promote his viewpoint. See http://www.unicode.org/L2/L2011/11026-infitt-wg02-reports.pdf for a report, which critically evaluated the evidence offered by Ganesan to support his proposal to the Unicode Technical Committee to add some Tamil-specific characters to the Grantha script. (Mani Manivannan, the author of this report, is also a CTamil member. Ganesan's proposal can be accessed at http://www.unicode.org/L2/L2009/09345-grantha.pdf . ) >> >> Manivannan's report describes a special meeting arranged at Ecole fran?aise d'Extr?me-Orient (EFEO), Pudhucceri on December 22, 2010 to evaluate Ganesan's proposal. A few members of our Indology list, participated in that meeting (see p.2 of the report) too. The report presents evidence of Ganesan selectively withholding information contradicting his case (see p. 8 of the report) as well as offering textual evidence from a non-existent publication from a non-existent organization, i.e., Samskrita Granthalipi Sabha (see pp. 12-13 of the report). (In spite of many requests since 2010, Ganesan has not provided the contact information for the Samskrita Granthalipi Sabha.) This modus operandi of his may suggest if he has not read Ghose?s conclusions or purposefully avoided mentioning them. >> >> As is his habit in discussions like this, Ganesan has made sure that his CTamil post, in which he repeated his fantasies as facts, was the last in the thread as though he has won the scholarly debate. Also, after his response to you in CTamil list, he has posted in some Tamil lists the contents of his response to your CTamil message. See https://groups.google.com/d/msg/mintamil/lC7RRAFRb7c/kuP2K9jmd2MJ . He has also posted the contents of another post in CTamil with a preface in Tamil that suggests that he has shown you how *moka?ay gives rise to makara in the Indus region and moca?e in Kannada in https://groups.google.com/d/msg/mintamil/lC7RRAFRb7c/3iCIpf3m3RAJ . (Thus, he has changed his reconstruction of the word for crocodile from *mokaray to *moka?ay.) For the most part, the members of these lists are not comparative linguists. Many may not have access to the resources such as the book by Rajeshwari Ghose. So when he deliberately withholds relevant information contradicting his case, many members of these lists may be misled into believing that Ganesan's fantasies are facts indeed. >> >> You may remember that the two lists, CTamil and Indo-Eurasian Research, were set up after the old Indology list restricted its membership. Ganesan was a member of both lists initially. When he tried to post his fantasies on the Indo-Eurasian Research list, he was asked not to do so and was later expelled from the list. >> >> Implications for Indology >> One of the reasons for a detailed discussion of Ganesan's work is that he has said that he is going to present a paper on this topic at the upcoming World Sanskrit Conference in Thailand, which many Sanskritists may attend. I hope they find the comparative Dravidian and Tamil philological information discussed here useful. >> >> More importantly, the support Ganesan?s view enjoys among Indologists such as Prof. Nachimuthu raises serious questions about the present state of comparative Dravidian linguistics and Tamil philology in India. After all, Nachimuthu was the Chairperson of Center of Indian Languages (CIL) at Jawaharlal Nehru University (JNU) in Delhi and is currently the Head of the Department of Tamil at the Central University of Tamil Nadu at Tiruv?r?r. His specialized/applied areas of research are supposed to be classical literature, grammar, and linguistics. Nachimuthu is also on the Tamil Research and Translation faculty of International School of Dravidian Linguistics (ISDL). See http://www.ijdl.org/Html/Members.htm . >> >> According to ISDL, ?The Faculty is recruited only by invitation from among scholars of repute.? If such a reputed scholar cannot realize the fallacies in Ganesan?s Makara-Vi?a?kar thesis, the state of scholarship in Tamil philology and comparative Dravidian linguistics in India is a cause for concern indeed. As for ISDL, they seemed to have agreed to publish Ganesan?s paper with the bad reconstruction, *mokaray. Now that he has changed *mokaray to *moka?ay--still a bad reconstruction--I do not know what ISDL will do. It looks like ISDL did not ask any comparative Dravidian linguist to review Ganesan?s paper. Ironically, ISDL also has Prof. P. S. Subrahmanyam, the reputed comparative Dravidian linguist, on its Linguistics Faculty! >> >> Regards, >> Palaniappan >> >> [1] http://list.indology.info/pipermail/indology_list.indology.info/2015-January/040639.html >> [2] Actually, the ?aiva canonical works use Vi?a?ka or its honorific form Vi?a?kar to connote something beautiful not merely ?often? but in every instance. Ghose has used ?often? because she has erroneously taken the use of ?Vi?a?ka? in T?v?ram 4.81.9 to refer to the li?ga in Chidambaram (p. 36). Thus, she implies T?v?ram 4.81.9 to be the earliest use of Vi?a?ka in connection with a li?ga while earlier it simply meant something beautiful. As explained by V. M. Subramaniya Ayyar in Digital Tev?ram, Vi?a?ka means ?beautiful? in T?v?ram 4.81.9 too. (See http://www.ifpindia.org/digitaldb/site/digital_tevaram/U_TEV/DM4_81.HTM#p9 ) Ghose did not make use of the comparative linguistic evidence provided by Dravidian Etymological Dictionary entry #5472. If she had, she would have concluded the meaning of Vi?a?kar to be ?a beautiful person? much more definitely. >> [3] Clearly V??a?kar referring to an anthropomorphic ?iva is earlier than Vi?a?kar referring to a li?ga since we have "Dak?i?a M?ru-Vi?a?kar alias ??avall?r" referring to Na?ar?ja in Tanjavur. Moreover, literary texts such as Tiruppall???u 4 by C?nta??r (ca. 10th century) and Tiruvicaipp? 10 by Tirum??ikaitt?var (10th/11th century) clearly refer to Chidambaram Na?ar?ja as Vi?a?ka? meaning 'a person of beauty'. Campantar in T?v?ram 3.68.5 refers to ?iva dancing in Kail?sa as 'na?am taru vi?a?ka?' (dancing Vi?a?ka?) which scholars have interpreted as 'dancing person of beauty' (see http://www.thevaaram.org/thirumurai_1/onepage.php?thiru=3&Song_idField=3068 ). >> [4] Periyapur??am 250 and 2071 compare the P?rampalam in the Chidambaram temple to M?ru because of its roof gilded with gold by Kulottu?ga C??a II in the 12th century. But the Ci??ampalam, the central shrine of Na?ar?ja seems to have had the gold roof from the time of T?v?ram 5.2.8. >> [5] SII 22, no. 541 >> [6] SII 22, no. 573 >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> INDOLOGY mailing list >> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info >> http://listinfo.indology.info -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rajam at earthlink.net Wed Apr 8 18:50:35 2015 From: rajam at earthlink.net (rajam) Date: Wed, 08 Apr 15 11:50:35 -0700 Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_[INDOLOGY]_Dravidian_etymologies_for_'makara',_vi=E1=B9=ADa=E1=B9=85kar_etc.?= In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Thank you!!! I wish our esteemed colleagues could understand and realize the seriousness of the academic situation while they keep silence out of politeness or politics. I am personally offended by the behavior of some of my Western colleagues who go for easy access through a ?native informant? and then be held and celebrated almost as a ?god? and enjoy such artificial stature. In this particular case ? serious attention is needed by forum owners, owners of online discussion groups, and so on to be watchful for plagiarism, manipulations, distortions, monopolizing, ? and you name it. Thanks and regards, Rajam > On Apr 8, 2015, at 11:19 AM, Sudalaimuthu Palaniappan via INDOLOGY wrote: > > > Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] Dravidian etymologies for 'makara', vi?a?kar etc. > From: Sudalaimuthu Palaniappan > Date: April 8, 2015 at 11:18:37 AM PDT > Cc: Indology > To: "Tieken, H.J.H." > > > Dear Dr. Tieken, > > I have shared your concern regarding Ganesan monopolizing the CTamil list even though I was not a member of that list. I have ignored him distorting my views in a CTamil post. However, Ganesan cannot be ignored in toto because in the past his actions have had serious Indological consequences. For instance, his proposal for Grantha encoding in Unicode, which had included endorsements from some Indologists, would have had adverse effects on the accurate processing of epigraphic data. Only at the last minute his suggestions were prevented from adoption by Unicode. This could not be handled at the scholarly level alone. It ended up involving the Chief Minister of Tamil Nadu and the Government of India?s Minister of Teleommunications. (See http://www.newindianexpress.com/states/tamil_nadu/article278530.ece?pageToolsFontSize=130%25 and http://www.unicode.org/L2/L2011/11182-grantha-letter.pdf .) > > Regards, > Palaniappan > >> On Apr 7, 2015, at 1:54 AM, Tieken, H.J.H. > wrote: >> >> Dear list members, >> Quite recently I have unsubscribed myself from the Classical Tamil list because it was completely monopolized by Naga Ganesan, only to discover that the discussion about the nonsense produced by him has now moved on to the Indology list. Could we please show some more self-restraint and ignore him. >> With kind regards, Herman >> >> Herman Tieken >> Stationsweg 58 >> 2515 BP Den Haag >> The Netherlands >> 00 31 (0)70 2208127 >> website: hermantieken.com >> Van: INDOLOGY [indology-bounces at list.indology.info ] namens rajam [rajam at earthlink.net ] >> Verzonden: dinsdag 7 april 2015 3:16 >> Aan: Sudalaimuthu Palaniappan >> CC: Indology >> Onderwerp: Re: [INDOLOGY] Dravidian etymologies for 'makara', vi?a?kar etc. >> >> Dear Indology List, Suresh, Palaniappan ? >> >> Thank you immensely for discussing this topic and bringing out the details to the unknown. >> >> I just wanted to share some sporadic thoughts, which have been painful for me over the years. >> >> There?s a problem of methodology here. >> >> (i) The saddest situation is that many Westerners (scholars or not) have been somehow captivated by Naga.Ganesan?s (NG?s) gesture, and have been exploited by him. NG has been promoting himself as someone who helps Westerners with his knowledge of this and that. I?ve heard that he?d send books/computers ? and people would fall at his feet for that gesture!! How sick! I know for sure that a few of my academic colleagues have fallen a prey. These academic colleagues are so lame to do their own research but would ask NG for ready reference and there you go ? a pile of Googlish junk at hand for those lazy Westerners to extrapolate. >> >> (ii) Our teacher Auvai Duraicami Pillai explained to us that ?viTankar? (vi?ankar) was ?one formed without being chiseled.? >> >> (iia) In any case, ?i?ankar? (for crocodile in ca?kam texts) and ?vitankar? (for referring to ?iva in bhakti texts) are NOT related. >> >> (iii) The Internet has been harboring a lot of unfortunate mishmashings. >> >> ++++++++++++++ >> >> I sincerely thank the Indology List for maintaining its integrity. >> >> Thanks and regards, >> V.S.Rajam >> >> >> >>> On Apr 6, 2015, at 11:09 AM, Sudalaimuthu Palaniappan via INDOLOGY > wrote: >>> >>> >>> Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] Dravidian etymologies for 'makara', vi?a?kar etc. >>> From: Sudalaimuthu Palaniappan > >>> Date: April 6, 2015 at 11:07:48 AM PDT >>> Cc: Indology >, "ctamil at services.cnrs.fr " > >>> To: "Suresh suresh.kolichala" > >>> >>> >>> Dear Suresh, >>> >>> The article on Meru in the recent IJJS issue posted by Peter Flugel reminded me that I have to discuss some issues related to Ganesan?s etymologies regarding makara, etc.. >>> >>> Thank you for mentioning in your Indology message of January 24, 2015 the discussion in the CTamil list.[1] In your post, you said: >>> >>> ?Here Ganesan refers to Rajeshwari Ghose's book [15], but it is clear that Ganesan hasn't read her conclusions or purposefully avoids mentioning them.? >>> >>> This observation of yours needs some additional comments. >>> >>> I apologize for the length of this message commenting on your observation. I shall first discuss whether Ganesan has not read Ghose?s conclusions or purposefully avoids mentioning them in response to you. In doing that I shall update the information provided by Ghose and also explain why Na?ar?ja in Tanjore temple was probably called Dak?i?a M?ru Vi?a?kar. Next I shall discuss Ganesan?s past behavior of selective withholding of information that contradicted his view and even presenting false information in connection with encoding of Grantha script in Unicode. (Some members of this list were involved in evaluating such information.) Finally, I shall discuss the implications of Ganesan's thesis for Indology in general and comparative Dravidian linguistics and Tamil philology in particular. Those interested in the details can read on. >>> >>> Ganesan?s use of Ghose?s book >>> In order to explore the question of whether Ganesan purposefully avoids mentioning Ghose?s conclusions, his response to you at https://listes.services.cnrs.fr/wws/arc/ctamil/2015-01/msg00039.html is useful. >>> >>> In his response to you, Ganesan has cited Ghose using the term Vi?a?kar to refer to the li?ga on pp. 51, 139, and 140 of her book. What Ghose has given on p. 51 is endnote 61 in which she says: >>> "...though the Chidambaram candramaul??vara is made of crystal and it seems most likely that it is this, which is referred to as Tillai Vi?a?kar in epigraphs". >>> >>> Ghose points to endnote 61 on p. 30 in the main body of the text. In the immediate next paragraph on p.30, Ghose says: >>> "The term Vi?a?ka is now unquestioningly accepted as of Sanskritic origin and etymologically split into vi+?a?ka 'one made without the use of the chisel' and consequently a svayambh? or self-manifested li?ga and it is this self manifestation which makes it specially sacred. It seems unlikely that this is what the word meant in earlier times in Tamil literature and epigraphy." >>> >>> After further discussing other lexical meanings of Vi?a?ka and even its tantric meaning, Rajeshwari Ghose says on p.31: >>> "The term Vi?a?ka or its honorific form Vi?a?kar, when used in the ?aiva canonical works often has the connotation of something beautiful.? [2] >>> >>> Thus when Ghose says on p. 139, "At twelve o'clock the abhi?eka is done to the marakata Vi?a?kar (the emerald linga) in the Ty?gar?ja shrine," she is simply using the term as currently used in the temple. The same is true for p. 140 too. But, as Ghose notes on p. 30, she doubts if this usage prevailed in earlier times. >>> >>> This leads one to wonder why Ganesan refers to a footnote mentioned by Ghose in one paragraph but does not mention a conclusion of hers given in the very next paragraph? I do not believe that lack of reading the following paragraph could be the reason. >>> >>> It should also be noted that Ghose wrote on p. 35 that "Though no iconographical descriptions of the Vi?a?kar are given by the T?v?ram writers or by the epigraphs, the fact that nowadays processional images are Som?skandas makes it probable that the Vi?a?kas were Som?skandas in the Pallava and C??a times as well.? This statement by Ghose needs to be updated. R. Nagaswamy, the epigraphist, does give an iconographic description of Vi?a?kar as representing an anthropomorphic icon in the introduction in his later book "B?had??vara Temple: Form and Meaning", Aryan Publications, 2010, p. 2 (see http://ignca.nic.in/kp_10.htm ) as given below: >>> >>> "An inscription of R?jar?ja Co?a I discovered by me reveals for the first time, the complete iconography of a metal image (copper) called Mah?m?ru-Vi?a?kar consecrated by R?jar?ja, which consists of ?iva with his consort P?rvat?, seated on the mountain M?ru with his two sons, Gane?a and Subrahma?ya, and other deities like S?rya, Candra, V??abha, dwarfs and a tree. Such a group of images on the mountain M?ru, made of metal, is unique in the history of South India and has not been known to exist or has been referred to anywhere in Tamil Nadu. Another image made of copper also consecrated by R?jar?ja was called Dak?i?a M?ru-Vi?a?kar alias ??avall?r, the dancing form of Na?ar?ja. These two images - Mah?m?ru-Vi?a?kar and Dak?i?a-M?ru-Vi?a?kar - are mentioned as the two principal metal images in the temple in many inscriptions."[3] >>> >>> In the above inscription, Mah?m?ru referred to the mythical M?ru mountain supposed to be in the north. Dak???a M?ru referred to the Chidambaram temple. The Chidambaram temple was probably called Dak?i?a M?ru because its roof was covered with gold shingles.[4] Dak?i?a-M?ru-Vi?a?kar meant ?the beautiful one of Chidambaram? or Na?ar?ja. >>> >>> In fact, these are not the only inscriptions that clearly link the use of ?Vi?a?kar? to refer to Som?skanda or Na?ar?ja, both being non-naked forms of ?iva. In an inscription of 1060 CE in the Some?varasv?mi temple in Punganur, in Chittoor District in Andhra Pradesh, two icons were mentioned as being installed.[5] One was called ?Um?skanda sahita tirum?ni Vijayar?ja Vi?a?kar? and the other was ?Tirucci??ampalamu?aiy?r ?r?kara?a Vi?a?kar?. The first one was the Som?skanda icon and the second one was the Na?ar?ja icon. The name ?r?kara?a Vi?a?kar clearly indicates ?the beautiful one (who is performing) the sacred kara?a?. The second one was also referred to as ???aval?r ?r?kara?avi?a?kar? elsewhere in the inscription. That Natar?ja was called ?Vi?a?kar? is proven by this inscription. Similarly, another inscription of 1070 CE in Mugavadi in the same district mentions a Som?skanda icon as ?Um?skanda sahita tirum?nik K?r??ai Vi?a?kar?.[6] >>> >>> Thus there is clear epigraphic and iconographic confirmation that Vi?a?ka?/Vi?a?kar did not have any association with phallus or nudity in earlier times. >>> >>> Given all these attested uses of Vi?a?ka meaning 'beauteous', it is interesting that Ganesan has not answered your question as to why he considers DEDR 5472 meaning for Vi?a?ka is incorrect. Instead he has chosen to repeat his fantasies as facts in his response. Interestingly, in a post sent to some Internet lists (https://groups.google.com/d/msg/mintamil/lC7RRAFRb7c/kuP2K9jmd2MJ ), Ganesan cites V. M. Subramanya Aiyar in connection with T?v?ram 7.36 but fails to note that Aiyar interprets vi?a?ku as 'beauty' in T?v?ram 7.36.10 (http://www.ifpindia.org/digitaldb/site/digital_tevaram/U_TEV/VMS7_036.HTM#p10 ). >>> >>> Ganesan?s past use of data in support of his views: >>> Ganesan does have a history of selectively withholding information or presenting even fabricated information in order to promote his viewpoint. See http://www.unicode.org/L2/L2011/11026-infitt-wg02-reports.pdf for a report, which critically evaluated the evidence offered by Ganesan to support his proposal to the Unicode Technical Committee to add some Tamil-specific characters to the Grantha script. (Mani Manivannan, the author of this report, is also a CTamil member. Ganesan's proposal can be accessed at http://www.unicode.org/L2/L2009/09345-grantha.pdf . ) >>> >>> Manivannan's report describes a special meeting arranged at Ecole fran?aise d'Extr?me-Orient (EFEO), Pudhucceri on December 22, 2010 to evaluate Ganesan's proposal. A few members of our Indology list, participated in that meeting (see p.2 of the report) too. The report presents evidence of Ganesan selectively withholding information contradicting his case (see p. 8 of the report) as well as offering textual evidence from a non-existent publication from a non-existent organization, i.e., Samskrita Granthalipi Sabha (see pp. 12-13 of the report). (In spite of many requests since 2010, Ganesan has not provided the contact information for the Samskrita Granthalipi Sabha.) This modus operandi of his may suggest if he has not read Ghose?s conclusions or purposefully avoided mentioning them. >>> >>> As is his habit in discussions like this, Ganesan has made sure that his CTamil post, in which he repeated his fantasies as facts, was the last in the thread as though he has won the scholarly debate. Also, after his response to you in CTamil list, he has posted in some Tamil lists the contents of his response to your CTamil message. See https://groups.google.com/d/msg/mintamil/lC7RRAFRb7c/kuP2K9jmd2MJ . He has also posted the contents of another post in CTamil with a preface in Tamil that suggests that he has shown you how *moka?ay gives rise to makara in the Indus region and moca?e in Kannada in https://groups.google.com/d/msg/mintamil/lC7RRAFRb7c/3iCIpf3m3RAJ . (Thus, he has changed his reconstruction of the word for crocodile from *mokaray to *moka?ay.) For the most part, the members of these lists are not comparative linguists. Many may not have access to the resources such as the book by Rajeshwari Ghose. So when he deliberately withholds relevant information contradicting his case, many members of these lists may be misled into believing that Ganesan's fantasies are facts indeed. >>> >>> You may remember that the two lists, CTamil and Indo-Eurasian Research, were set up after the old Indology list restricted its membership. Ganesan was a member of both lists initially. When he tried to post his fantasies on the Indo-Eurasian Research list, he was asked not to do so and was later expelled from the list. >>> >>> Implications for Indology >>> One of the reasons for a detailed discussion of Ganesan's work is that he has said that he is going to present a paper on this topic at the upcoming World Sanskrit Conference in Thailand, which many Sanskritists may attend. I hope they find the comparative Dravidian and Tamil philological information discussed here useful. >>> >>> More importantly, the support Ganesan?s view enjoys among Indologists such as Prof. Nachimuthu raises serious questions about the present state of comparative Dravidian linguistics and Tamil philology in India. After all, Nachimuthu was the Chairperson of Center of Indian Languages (CIL) at Jawaharlal Nehru University (JNU) in Delhi and is currently the Head of the Department of Tamil at the Central University of Tamil Nadu at Tiruv?r?r. His specialized/applied areas of research are supposed to be classical literature, grammar, and linguistics. Nachimuthu is also on the Tamil Research and Translation faculty of International School of Dravidian Linguistics (ISDL). See http://www.ijdl.org/Html/Members.htm . >>> >>> According to ISDL, ?The Faculty is recruited only by invitation from among scholars of repute.? If such a reputed scholar cannot realize the fallacies in Ganesan?s Makara-Vi?a?kar thesis, the state of scholarship in Tamil philology and comparative Dravidian linguistics in India is a cause for concern indeed. As for ISDL, they seemed to have agreed to publish Ganesan?s paper with the bad reconstruction, *mokaray. Now that he has changed *mokaray to *moka?ay--still a bad reconstruction--I do not know what ISDL will do. It looks like ISDL did not ask any comparative Dravidian linguist to review Ganesan?s paper. Ironically, ISDL also has Prof. P. S. Subrahmanyam, the reputed comparative Dravidian linguist, on its Linguistics Faculty! >>> >>> Regards, >>> Palaniappan >>> >>> [1] http://list.indology.info/pipermail/indology_list.indology.info/2015-January/040639.html >>> [2] Actually, the ?aiva canonical works use Vi?a?ka or its honorific form Vi?a?kar to connote something beautiful not merely ?often? but in every instance. Ghose has used ?often? because she has erroneously taken the use of ?Vi?a?ka? in T?v?ram 4.81.9 to refer to the li?ga in Chidambaram (p. 36). Thus, she implies T?v?ram 4.81.9 to be the earliest use of Vi?a?ka in connection with a li?ga while earlier it simply meant something beautiful. As explained by V. M. Subramaniya Ayyar in Digital Tev?ram, Vi?a?ka means ?beautiful? in T?v?ram 4.81.9 too. (See http://www.ifpindia.org/digitaldb/site/digital_tevaram/U_TEV/DM4_81.HTM#p9 ) Ghose did not make use of the comparative linguistic evidence provided by Dravidian Etymological Dictionary entry #5472. If she had, she would have concluded the meaning of Vi?a?kar to be ?a beautiful person? much more definitely. >>> [3] Clearly V??a?kar referring to an anthropomorphic ?iva is earlier than Vi?a?kar referring to a li?ga since we have "Dak?i?a M?ru-Vi?a?kar alias ??avall?r" referring to Na?ar?ja in Tanjavur. Moreover, literary texts such as Tiruppall???u 4 by C?nta??r (ca. 10th century) and Tiruvicaipp? 10 by Tirum??ikaitt?var (10th/11th century) clearly refer to Chidambaram Na?ar?ja as Vi?a?ka? meaning 'a person of beauty'. Campantar in T?v?ram 3.68.5 refers to ?iva dancing in Kail?sa as 'na?am taru vi?a?ka?' (dancing Vi?a?ka?) which scholars have interpreted as 'dancing person of beauty' (see http://www.thevaaram.org/thirumurai_1/onepage.php?thiru=3&Song_idField=3068 ). >>> [4] Periyapur??am 250 and 2071 compare the P?rampalam in the Chidambaram temple to M?ru because of its roof gilded with gold by Kulottu?ga C??a II in the 12th century. But the Ci??ampalam, the central shrine of Na?ar?ja seems to have had the gold roof from the time of T?v?ram 5.2.8. >>> [5] SII 22, no. 541 >>> [6] SII 22, no. 573 >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From wujastyk at gmail.com Wed Apr 8 21:03:04 2015 From: wujastyk at gmail.com (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Wed, 08 Apr 15 23:03:04 +0200 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Favour? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Arise Sir Knight! :-) I'm glad I could help. Best, Dominik ? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From andrew.nicholson at stonybrook.edu Wed Apr 8 21:18:09 2015 From: andrew.nicholson at stonybrook.edu (Andrew Nicholson) Date: Wed, 08 Apr 15 17:18:09 -0400 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Prohibition of sea travel Message-ID: Dear Indologists, A quick question on behalf of a colleague: can you please point me to a few articles discussing and contextualizing the prohibition of sea travel expressed in the dharma??stra literature (such as at Laws of Manu 3.158)? Many thanks, Andrew -- Andrew J. Nicholson, SUNY Stony Brook Stony Brook, NY 11794-5343 Sent from my iPhone -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rajam at earthlink.net Thu Apr 9 17:23:18 2015 From: rajam at earthlink.net (rajam) Date: Thu, 09 Apr 15 10:23:18 -0700 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Eight types of marriages ... Message-ID: Dear List Members, I?m re-searching/re-studying the Tamil text iRaiyanAr kaLaviyal (i?aiya??r ka?aviyal; ???????? ???????). In this text, a comparison is made between the ?gandharva? type of marriage among the ?eight types of marriages? (of the Vedic tradition?) to kaLavu (ka?avu; ????) of the Tamil type. I would appreciate to have access to the earliest reference (and relevant interpretations) of the ?eight types of marriages (ashTavivAha)? as mentioned in the Vedic (?) tradition. I have several questions, but for now here are my specific questions: 1. In which type of marriage(s) did a woman have the right to choose her partner/husband? 2. What was the basic criterion for giving away a bride in marriage to someone OR taking a bride? 3. What is told/informed to a bride and groom during the wedding ceremony about ?marital fidelity?? 4. What is the precise Vedic (?) term for ?marital fidelity?? Thanks and regards, V.S.Rajam -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From hermantull at gmail.com Thu Apr 9 17:59:53 2015 From: hermantull at gmail.com (Herman Tull) Date: Thu, 09 Apr 15 13:59:53 -0400 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Bodhisatta vs. the Big Stick In-Reply-To: <551D5917.6010903@cam.ac.uk> Message-ID: Dear Charles, I showed the film in the intro Buddhism class I teach at Lafayette College (Easton, PA, USA). It was a big hit...generating a wonderful discussion that ranged from ideas about Buddhist texts to Aristotle and Galileo (we made the comparison of the "science" behind the dropping of two balls of uneven weight to the heavy/light side of the stick). Thanks for the heads up on the film. It was a terrific addition to my class (and the perfect length for a college class...leaving us sufficient time for discussion). For those considering using the film, know also that it is visually quite stunning. Herman Tull On Thu, Apr 2, 2015 at 10:58 AM, Charles Li wrote: > Dear all, > > I recently made a short film about a story in the Pali Jatakas featuring > Margaret Cone, whom some of you might know. It premiered at the Cambridge > Science Festival at the beginning of March and is now available on YouTube: > > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DprKj8OXCq4&list=PLoEBu2Q8ia_ > OwPszaJFmkI1SFVj5d5oB7&index=11 > > Hope you enjoy it. > > Charles > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > http://listinfo.indology.info > -- *Herman TullPrinceton, NJ * -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From gthomgt at gmail.com Thu Apr 9 20:00:14 2015 From: gthomgt at gmail.com (George Thompson) Date: Thu, 09 Apr 15 16:00:14 -0400 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Fwd: Eight types of marriages ... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: George Thompson Date: Thu, Apr 9, 2015 at 3:54 PM Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] Eight types of marriages ... To: rajam Dear Rajam, There is a valuable discussion of the eight types of marriage in Vedic in Stephanie Jamison's book *Sacrificed Wife, Sacrificer's Wife* Oxford Univ. Press, 1996. See section V "Women and Marriage." Best wishes, George On Thu, Apr 9, 2015 at 1:23 PM, rajam wrote: > Dear List Members, > > I?m re-searching/re-studying the Tamil text iRaiyanAr kaLaviyal (i?aiya??r > ka?aviyal; ???????? ???????). > > In this text, a comparison is made between the ?gandharva? type > of marriage among the ?eight types of marriages? (of the Vedic tradition?) > to kaLavu (ka?avu; ????) of the Tamil type. > > I would appreciate to have access to the earliest reference (and relevant > interpretations) of the ?eight types of marriages (ashTavivAha)? as > mentioned in the Vedic (?) tradition. > > > I have several questions, but for now here are my specific questions: > > 1. In which type of marriage(s) did a woman have the right to choose her > partner/husband? > 2. What was the basic criterion for giving away a bride in marriage to > someone OR taking a bride? > > 3. What is told/informed to a bride and groom during the wedding ceremony > about ?marital fidelity?? > > 4. What is the precise Vedic (?) term for ?marital fidelity?? > > Thanks and regards, > V.S.Rajam > > > > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > http://listinfo.indology.info > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From drdhaval2785 at gmail.com Fri Apr 10 11:55:17 2015 From: drdhaval2785 at gmail.com (dhaval patel) Date: Fri, 10 Apr 15 17:25:17 +0530 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Vartika data request Message-ID: Dear all, Sorry for cross posting. I need the Vartika number and Vartika in digital format (.txt, .xls, .csv or any other kind of database etc) Something similar to http://sanskritdocuments.org/learning_tools/ashtadhyayi/. I would be grateful for any pointers. -- Dr. Dhaval Patel, I.A.S Collector and District Magistrate, Anand www.sanskritworld.in -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From christophe.vielle at uclouvain.be Fri Apr 10 15:31:07 2015 From: christophe.vielle at uclouvain.be (Christophe Vielle) Date: Fri, 10 Apr 15 17:31:07 +0200 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Bibliotheca Polyglotta - University of Oslo Message-ID: <161227110359.23782.17973985233726436976.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> An interesting project: the Bibliotheca Polyglotta https://www2.hf.uio.no/polyglotta/index.php with the Thesaurus Literaturae Buddhicae https://www2.hf.uio.no/polyglotta/index.php?page=library&bid=2 for example, the Vimalak?rtinirde?a: https://www2.hf.uio.no/polyglotta/index.php?page=fulltext&view=fulltext&vid=37&mid=0 the Sanskrit-Persica https://www2.hf.uio.no/polyglotta/index.php?page=library&bid=11 and The Ashoka Library https://www2.hf.uio.no/polyglotta/index.php?page=library&bid=14 Note also : The Elementa of Euclid, in Greek, English, Latin (3), Arabic (2), Sanskrit and Chinese; in the Bibliotheca Polyglotta Graeca http://www2.hf.uio.no/polyglotta/index.php?page=fulltext&view=fulltext&vid=67&mid=0 ??????????????????? Christophe Vielle Louvain-la-Neuve -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From nagarajpaturi at gmail.com Fri Apr 10 19:24:42 2015 From: nagarajpaturi at gmail.com (Nagaraj Paturi) Date: Sat, 11 Apr 15 00:54:42 +0530 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Eight types of marriages ... Message-ID: Mahabharata Adiparva Sambhaparva S'akuntalopakhyanam Adhyaya 67- 8 to 13 has a list of Eight types of marriages and discussion in relation to Kshatriyas : a???veva sam?sena viv?h? dharmata? smr?t??. br?hmo daivastathaiv?r?a? pr?j?patyastath?sura?.. 8.. g?ndharvo r?k?asa?caiva pai??ca?c???ama? smr?ta?. te??? dharm?nyath?p?rva? manu? sv?yambhuvo'brav?t.. 9.. pra?ast???catura? p?rv?nbr?hma?asyopadh?raya. ?a??nup?rvy? k?atrasya viddhi dharmy?nanindite.. 10.. r?j??? tu r?k?aso'pyukto vi???dre?v?sura? smr?ta?. pa?c?n?? tu trayo dharmy? dv?vadharmyau smr?t?viha.. 11.. pai??ca?c?sura?caiva na kartavyau katha?cana. anena vidhin? k?ryo dharmasyai?? gati? smr?t?.. 12.. g?ndharvar?k?asau k?atre dharmyau tau m? vi?a?kith??. pr?thagv? yadi v? mi?rau kartavyau n?tra sa??aya?.. 13.. -- Prof.Nagaraj Paturi Hyderabad-500044 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From nagarajpaturi at gmail.com Sat Apr 11 03:03:07 2015 From: nagarajpaturi at gmail.com (Nagaraj Paturi) Date: Sat, 11 Apr 15 08:33:07 +0530 Subject: [INDOLOGY] (no subject) Message-ID: One of the questions by Mr. V S Rajam was What is told/informed to a bride and groom during the wedding ceremony about ?marital fidelity?? ------ There are several different occasions during the Vedic marriage when bride and bride groom are made to take oath. One of the most well known, popular oft-quoted is : Bride's father : dharma cha Arthe cha kame chaishaa naaticharitavyaa Bridegroom: Naaticharaami. For the remaining such oaths taken by bride and bridegroom during the marriage ritual, you might want to refer to one of the huge number of publications of Vivaha mantras abundantly available on and offline. -- Prof.Nagaraj Paturi Hyderabad-500044 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From nagarajpaturi at gmail.com Sat Apr 11 04:26:35 2015 From: nagarajpaturi at gmail.com (Nagaraj Paturi) Date: Sat, 11 Apr 15 09:56:35 +0530 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Eight types of marriages ... Message-ID: I apologise for posting the following without subject line : One of the questions by Mr. V S Rajam was What is told/informed to a bride and groom during the wedding ceremony about ?marital fidelity?? ------ There are several different occasions during the Vedic marriage when bride and bride groom are made to take oath. One of the most well known, popular oft-quoted is : Bride's father : dharma cha Arthe cha kame chaishaa naaticharitavyaa Bridegroom: Naaticharaami. For the remaining such oaths taken by bride and bridegroom during the marriage ritual, you might want to refer to one of the huge number of publications of Vivaha mantras abundantly available on and offline. -- Prof.Nagaraj Paturi Hyderabad-500044 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From nagarajpaturi at gmail.com Sat Apr 11 04:33:16 2015 From: nagarajpaturi at gmail.com (Nagaraj Paturi) Date: Sat, 11 Apr 15 10:03:16 +0530 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Eight types of marriages ... Message-ID: What is the precise Vedic (?) term for ?marital fidelity? -------- Manusmriti uses the word pradushTaa for martially infidel woman. Bhagavadgita too in 1-41 uses praduShyanti only in this sense. jaaraa is the feminine jaarah is the masculine for marital infidel in general Sanskrit. -- Prof.Nagaraj Paturi Hyderabad-500044 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From nagarajpaturi at gmail.com Sat Apr 11 04:47:17 2015 From: nagarajpaturi at gmail.com (Nagaraj Paturi) Date: Sat, 11 Apr 15 10:17:17 +0530 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Eight types of marriages ... Message-ID: In which type of marriage(s) did a woman have the right to choose her partner/husband? -------- It is called swayamwara found described in narrative poetic literature. This is not one of the eight types. -- Prof.Nagaraj Paturi Hyderabad-500044 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From drdhaval2785 at gmail.com Sat Apr 11 08:28:22 2015 From: drdhaval2785 at gmail.com (dhaval patel) Date: Sat, 11 Apr 15 13:58:22 +0530 Subject: =?utf-8?B?UmU6IFtJTkRPTE9HWV0Je+CkreCkvuCksOCkpOClgOCkr+CkteCkv+CkpuCljeCkteCkpOCljeCkquCksOCkv+Ckt+CkpOCljX0gUmU6IFZhcnRpa2EgZGF0YSByZXF1ZXN0?= In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Very beautiful resource. Let me see how best I can utilize it. Regards On Sat, Apr 11, 2015 at 6:07 AM, ???????? ???????? (Vishvas Vasuki) < vishvas.vasuki at gmail.com> wrote: > > https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Al_QBT-hoqqVdGV5U2tQZ3ltX3poX1hjZmhqcGQzN1E#gid=6 > > 2015-04-10 4:55 GMT-07:00 dhaval patel : > >> Dear all, >> Sorry for cross posting. >> I need the Vartika number and Vartika in digital format (.txt, .xls, .csv >> or any other kind of database etc) >> Something similar to >> http://sanskritdocuments.org/learning_tools/ashtadhyayi/. >> >> I would be grateful for any pointers. >> >> -- >> Dr. Dhaval Patel, I.A.S >> Collector and District Magistrate, Anand >> www.sanskritworld.in >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "sanskrit-programmers" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to sanskrit-programmers+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >> > > > > -- > -- > Vishvas /???????? > > -- > ??????????????? ?????? ???????? ??????????? (?.??.) > --- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "???????????????????" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to bvparishat+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to bvparishat at googlegroups.com. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/bvparishat. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > -- Dr. Dhaval Patel, I.A.S Collector and District Magistrate, Anand www.sanskritworld.in -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From psdmccartney at gmail.com Sat Apr 11 15:21:57 2015 From: psdmccartney at gmail.com (patrick mccartney) Date: Sat, 11 Apr 15 20:51:57 +0530 Subject: =?utf-8?Q?[INDOLOGY]_siddha_<->_j=C4=ABvanmukta_=3F?= Message-ID: Dear Friends, I am seeking clarification on the following terms. Are the terms s*iddha *and *j?vanmukta* synonymous? If someone is considered to be a siddha, does that imply that they are 'liberated in this lifetime'? Does anyone know of any discussion that explicitly links these terms? All the best, Patrick McCartney PhD Candidate School of Culture, History & Language College of the Asia-Pacific The Australian National University Canberra, Australia, 0200 Skype - psdmccartney Australia: +61 487 398 354 Germany: +49 157 5469 4045 India: +91 98 73 893 945 - *https://www.linkedin.com/profile/view?id=241756978&trk=nav_responsive_tab_profile * - *https://anu-au.academia.edu/patrickmccartney * https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xZHJVkhVBPc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LVqBD_2P4Pg -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mkapstei at uchicago.edu Sat Apr 11 15:57:31 2015 From: mkapstei at uchicago.edu (Matthew Kapstein) Date: Sat, 11 Apr 15 15:57:31 +0000 Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_[INDOLOGY]_siddha_<->_j=C4=ABvanmukta_=3F?= In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <82C3E42590D939418C74DD76B97DDED0374F8F1F@xm-mbx-04-prod.ad.uchicago.edu> Hi Patrick, I think that siddha and j?vanmukta are certainly not synonyms. Siddha may refer to a class of semi-divine beings, as well as to adepts who have obtained mundane siddhi but who are by no means "liberated." In Buddhist usage mahAsiddha refers to one who has obtained the "supreme siddhi" - enlightenment - and so this may be synonymous with j?vanmukta. Some of the works of David White (esp. The Alchemical Body), may also be helpful here. Ronald Davidson's Esoteric Buddhism in India and Christian Wedemeyer's recent Making Sense of Tantra may be useful on the Buddhist side. There's certainly much more, particularly in the literature on Kashmir Saivism, but this is at least a start. Matthew Matthew Kapstein Directeur d'?tudes, Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes Numata Visiting Professor of Buddhist Studies, The University of Chicago ________________________________ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From zydenbos at uni-muenchen.de Sat Apr 11 16:17:07 2015 From: zydenbos at uni-muenchen.de (Robert Zydenbos) Date: Sat, 11 Apr 15 18:17:07 +0200 Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_[INDOLOGY]_siddha_<->_j=C4=ABvanmukta_=3F?= In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <55294903.1070204@uni-muenchen.de> Good afternoon, Patrick, As it stands, I fear your question is unanswerable because it is not sufficiently specific. There are numerous terms across Indian traditions that more or less refer to similar matters, but due to metaphysical, ontological and soteriological differences they are not equivalent or exchangeable. One question, for instance, would concern the definition of mukti: can one speak of mukti while a person is still embodied, or not? Is mukti to be considered de facto equivalent with enlightenment, or not? (In Jaina thought, to give just one concrete example, this is the difference between an ayogakevalin and a sayogakevalin, both of whom are enlightened. An ayogakevalin is a siddha or mukta. There is no place for a concept of j?vanmukti here.) Robert Zydenbos patrick mccartney wrote: > Dear Friends, > > I am seeking clarification on the following terms. > > Are the terms s/iddha /and /j?vanmukta/ synonymous? > > If someone is considered to be a siddha, does that imply that they are > 'liberated in this lifetime'? > > Does anyone know of any discussion that explicitly links these terms? > > > All the best, > > Patrick McCartney -- Prof. Dr. Robert J. Zydenbos Institute of Indology and Tibetology Department of Asian Studies University of Munich Geschwister-Scholl-Platz 1 80538 Munich Germany Tel. (+49-89-) 2180-5782 Fax (+49-89-) 2180-5827 Web http://zydenbos.userweb.mwn.de/ From hr at ivs.edu Sat Apr 11 16:34:35 2015 From: hr at ivs.edu (Howard Resnick) Date: Sat, 11 Apr 15 12:34:35 -0400 Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_[INDOLOGY]_siddha_<->_j=C4=ABvanmukta_=3F?= In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <1428770103-8538785.49632271.ft3BGYaD0007652@rs143.luxsci.com> Among Gaudiya Vaishnavas, the terms siddha and jivan-mukta can be used synonymously in some important contexts. siddha may mean ?perfected? or ?one who has attained the highest object? etc. Clearly among those who value liberation as a perfection or highest object, the terms may be used synonymously. Bhagavad-gita is full of verses that speak of being liberated from karma etc in this life, i.e. jivan-mukta The great Rupa Gosvami, in Bhakti-rasamrta-sindhu 1.21.87 speaks of jivan-mukta. It is a standard term. It depends on how one conceives of mukti, but mukti, however conceived is often considered a siddhi, or perfection of life, apart from other uses of all these terms. Best, Howard Resnick > On Apr 11, 2015, at 11:21 AM, patrick mccartney wrote: > > Dear Friends, > > I am seeking clarification on the following terms. > > Are the terms siddha and j?vanmukta synonymous? > > If someone is considered to be a siddha, does that imply that they are 'liberated in this lifetime'? > > Does anyone know of any discussion that explicitly links these terms? > > > All the best, > > Patrick McCartney > > PhD Candidate > School of Culture, History & Language > College of the Asia-Pacific > The Australian National University > Canberra, Australia, 0200 > > > Skype - psdmccartney > > Australia: +61 487 398 354 > Germany: +49 157 5469 4045 > India: +91 98 73 893 945 > > https://www.linkedin.com/profile/view?id=241756978&trk=nav_responsive_tab_profile > https://anu-au.academia.edu/patrickmccartney > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xZHJVkhVBPc > > > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LVqBD_2P4Pg > > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > http://listinfo.indology.info -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From strauchi at zedat.fu-berlin.de Sat Apr 11 23:17:12 2015 From: strauchi at zedat.fu-berlin.de (Ingo Strauch) Date: Sat, 11 Apr 15 16:17:12 -0700 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Call for Papers - Asiatische Studien-Etudes Asiatiques (South Asia volume 2016) Message-ID: <5529AB78.7000407@zedat.fu-berlin.de> *Call for Papers Asiatische Studien ? ?tudes Asiatiques, South Asia volume* ** The journal /Asiatische Studien / ?tudes Asiatiques /is currently requesting submissions for the South Asia volume to appear in 2016. /Asiatische Studien / ?tudes Asiatiques /provides a forum for the publication of research articles dedicated to past and present cultures and societies of Asia and the Orient. The quarterly journal presents, in a fixed schedule, regional issues on China, the Islamic World, Japan, South or Central Asia as well as general and special issues. The journal addresses not only the academic public, but a public generally interested in Asian studies. It is published by the Swiss Asia Society (www.sagw.ch/asiengesellschaft) with the support of the Swiss Academy of Humanities and Social Sciences (www.sagw.ch). All articles are peer-reviewed. The languages of publication are German, English and French. Please send submissions online at http://mc.manuscriptcentral.com/asia Or email your manuscript to sag.editor at aoi.uzh.ch Style Sheet Please consider the style sheet which can be found on the tap Overview under Supplementary Information. http://www.degruyter.com/view/j/asia Prof. Dr. Ingo Strauch Sanskrit et ?tudes Bouddhiques Universit? de Lausanne January 2015 - June 2015 Visiting Professor Department of Asian Languages and Literature University of Washington, Box 353521 Seattle WA 98195-3521 USA -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mkapstei at uchicago.edu Sun Apr 12 09:17:29 2015 From: mkapstei at uchicago.edu (Matthew Kapstein) Date: Sun, 12 Apr 15 09:17:29 +0000 Subject: [INDOLOGY] the sage NArada and music Message-ID: <82C3E42590D939418C74DD76B97DDED0374F918C@xm-mbx-04-prod.ad.uchicago.edu> One of the many legends of NArada one hears tells of his dreaming that he is among men and women suffering from various crippling maladies. When he asks why they are in this terrible state, they reply that they are the rAgas and rAginIs and that they have been broken by his inept performances. On awakening he performs penance and vows henceforth to achieve music perfection. Do any of the listmembers know of a traditional literary version of this tale? (It is found in some modern works on Indian music--these do not interest me unless they reference their sources.) with thanks in advance, Matthew Matthew Kapstein Directeur d'?tudes, Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes Numata Visiting Professor of Buddhist Studies, The University of Chicago ________________________________ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From nagarajpaturi at gmail.com Sun Apr 12 20:38:09 2015 From: nagarajpaturi at gmail.com (Nagaraj Paturi) Date: Mon, 13 Apr 15 02:08:09 +0530 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Siddha <->JIvanmukta Message-ID: I agree with Prof. Mathew Kapstein. The word Siddha has several meanings in several contexts. The term JIvanmukta too has a huge shades of meaning and a wide varieties of discussion. There are very small number of occasions the two terms can turn almost synonymous to each other. Siddha : 1. The one who has achieved one of the ashTa siddhis. 2. One of the (usually seven) devata jatis. 3. A respectable member of the Tamil siddha tradition. 4. A guru of the Shaiva particularly Vira shaiva tradition 5. In the modern theosophical tradition, the one translated into English as a Master. The list goes on. JIvanmukta : I shall continue in my next post. -- Prof.Nagaraj Paturi Hyderabad-500044 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jpo at uts.cc.utexas.edu Sun Apr 12 21:38:09 2015 From: jpo at uts.cc.utexas.edu (Patrick Olivelle) Date: Sun, 12 Apr 15 16:38:09 -0500 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Siddha <->JIvanmukta In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <8B0A7D7B-4D10-4431-ACCC-DB134C5588E5@uts.cc.utexas.edu> With regard to "siddha", there is interesting evidence from a tradition far different from the "religious", and that is Kau?ilya's Artha??stra. There the term is used frequently with regard to monetary matters and bookkeeping, but within a religious context we have both siddha used alone and in the compound siddhat?pasa. In these usages, the reference is to a religious virtuoso who is capable of, or believed capable of, doing extraordinary things. See, for example, Artha??stra: 1.11.16; 1.12.22; 1.21.24; 4.3.13, 25, 44; 4.4.3; 5.1.3; 5.2.39, 41. For j?vanmukta, from a Advaita and quasi-yoga perspective, see Vidy?ra?ya's J?vanmuktiviveda, newly edited and translated by Robert Gooding, available, I think, through the service that publishes dissertations. Best, Patrick On Apr 12, 2015, at 3:38 PM, Nagaraj Paturi wrote: > I agree with Prof. Mathew Kapstein. > > The word Siddha has several meanings in several contexts. > > The term JIvanmukta too has a huge shades of meaning and a wide varieties of discussion. > > There are very small number of occasions the two terms can turn almost synonymous to each other. > > Siddha : 1. The one who has achieved one of the ashTa siddhis. 2. One of the (usually seven) devata jatis. 3. A respectable member of the Tamil siddha tradition. 4. A guru of the Shaiva particularly Vira shaiva tradition 5. In the modern theosophical tradition, the one translated into English as a Master. The list goes on. > > JIvanmukta : I shall continue in my next post. > > -- > Prof.Nagaraj Paturi > Hyderabad-500044 > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > http://listinfo.indology.info From jpb at austin.utexas.edu Sun Apr 12 21:52:52 2015 From: jpb at austin.utexas.edu (Brereton, Joel) Date: Sun, 12 Apr 15 21:52:52 +0000 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Siddha <->JIvanmukta In-Reply-To: <8B0A7D7B-4D10-4431-ACCC-DB134C5588E5@uts.cc.utexas.edu> Message-ID: Robert Goodding has generously made his dissertation on the J?vanmuktiviveka available at http://www.robgoodd.com/. Joel On Apr 12, 2015, at 4:38 PM, Patrick Olivelle wrote: With regard to "siddha", there is interesting evidence from a tradition far different from the "religious", and that is Kau?ilya's Artha??stra. There the term is used frequently with regard to monetary matters and bookkeeping, but within a religious context we have both siddha used alone and in the compound siddhat?pasa. In these usages, the reference is to a religious virtuoso who is capable of, or believed capable of, doing extraordinary things. See, for example, Artha??stra: 1.11.16; 1.12.22; 1.21.24; 4.3.13, 25, 44; 4.4.3; 5.1.3; 5.2.39, 41. For j?vanmukta, from a Advaita and quasi-yoga perspective, see Vidy?ra?ya's J?vanmuktiviveda, newly edited and translated by Robert Gooding, available, I think, through the service that publishes dissertations. Best, Patrick On Apr 12, 2015, at 3:38 PM, Nagaraj Paturi > wrote: I agree with Prof. Mathew Kapstein. The word Siddha has several meanings in several contexts. The term JIvanmukta too has a huge shades of meaning and a wide varieties of discussion. There are very small number of occasions the two terms can turn almost synonymous to each other. Siddha : 1. The one who has achieved one of the ashTa siddhis. 2. One of the (usually seven) devata jatis. 3. A respectable member of the Tamil siddha tradition. 4. A guru of the Shaiva particularly Vira shaiva tradition 5. In the modern theosophical tradition, the one translated into English as a Master. The list goes on. JIvanmukta : I shall continue in my next post. -- Prof.Nagaraj Paturi Hyderabad-500044 _______________________________________________ INDOLOGY mailing list INDOLOGY at list.indology.info http://listinfo.indology.info _______________________________________________ INDOLOGY mailing list INDOLOGY at list.indology.info http://listinfo.indology.info -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From nagarajpaturi at gmail.com Mon Apr 13 08:14:29 2015 From: nagarajpaturi at gmail.com (Nagaraj Paturi) Date: Mon, 13 Apr 15 13:44:29 +0530 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Siddha<->JIvanmukta Message-ID: http://www.hinduwebsite.com/hinduism/essays/siddhas.asp has an essay, "A critical study of the chronology of the Siddhas" by K V Ramakrishna Rao. This is basically from a Tamil Siddha tradition point of view. http://www.siddhars.com/aboutus.htm has a list of 18 Siddhas. -- Prof.Nagaraj Paturi Hyderabad-500044 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From hspier.muktabodha at gmail.com Mon Apr 13 20:45:36 2015 From: hspier.muktabodha at gmail.com (Harry Spier) Date: Mon, 13 Apr 15 16:45:36 -0400 Subject: =?utf-8?Q?[INDOLOGY]_Articles_on_history_and_use_of_=C5=9Br=C4=AB_as_title_of_respect?= Message-ID: Can any list members give me the bibliographic information of any indological articles on the history and use of "?r?" as a honorific or title of respect. Or better yet send me a pdf of any such articles. Many thanks, Harry Spier -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mmdesh at umich.edu Mon Apr 13 20:59:51 2015 From: mmdesh at umich.edu (Madhav Deshpande) Date: Mon, 13 Apr 15 16:59:51 -0400 Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_[INDOLOGY]=09Articles_on_history_and_use_of_=C5=9Br=C4=AB_as_title_of_respect?= In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hello Harry, Here is the bibliographic reference to one of my old articles: 1993. "Inscriptional Evidence for Honorific ?r? in Indo-Aryan." In *Perspectives in Indian Aesthetics and Literature, Essays in Honour of the Late Prof. Dr. G. K. Bhat, *edited by Saroj Deshpande and Maneesha Dikshit. Pp. 254-278. Pune, India: Dastane Ramchandra & Co. I don't have a ready pdf of this publication, but if you don't have access to this book, I can hunt for my copy of it. Madhav Deshpande On Mon, Apr 13, 2015 at 4:45 PM, Harry Spier wrote: > Can any list members give me the bibliographic information of any > indological articles on the history and use of "?r?" as a honorific or > title of respect. Or better yet send me a pdf of any such articles. > > Many thanks, > Harry Spier > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > http://listinfo.indology.info > -- Madhav M. Deshpande Professor of Sanskrit and Linguistics Department of Asian Languages and Cultures 202 South Thayer Street, Suite 6111 The University of Michigan Ann Arbor, MI 48104-1608, USA -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From arlogriffiths at hotmail.com Mon Apr 13 21:29:37 2015 From: arlogriffiths at hotmail.com (Arlo Griffiths) Date: Mon, 13 Apr 15 21:29:37 +0000 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Allan, Coins Message-ID: Dear colleagues, Does anyone happen to have a good scan of this work? John Allan, Catalogue of the coins of ancient India (London, 1936) Thanks and best wishes, Arlo Griffiths ?cole fran?aise d'Extr?me-Orient -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Palaniappa at aol.com Mon Apr 13 21:39:49 2015 From: Palaniappa at aol.com (Sudalaimuthu Palaniappan) Date: Mon, 13 Apr 15 16:39:49 -0500 Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_[INDOLOGY]_Articles_on_history_and_use_of_=C5=9Br=C4=AB_as_title_of_respect?= In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <025744CB-C357-42EF-98CC-F19DE7100383@aol.com> The Mangulam inscription of 2nd century BC uses the Prakrit ?Siri? as in "Nanta-siri". Is that of interest to you? See pp. 314-319 of 'Early Tamil Epigraph' by Iravatham Mahadevan, Harvard Oriental Series, vol. 62, 2003. While normally one would expect the honorific to be in front of the names, there are Malayalam titles such as Namp?tiri, Bha??atiri, etc., which are explained as having the tadbhava form of ?r? at the end. Was something like this prevalent in the north? Regards, Palaniappan > On Apr 13, 2015, at 3:59 PM, Madhav Deshpande wrote: > > Hello Harry, > > Here is the bibliographic reference to one of my old articles: > > 1993. "Inscriptional Evidence for Honorific ?r? in Indo-Aryan." In Perspectives in Indian Aesthetics and Literature, Essays in Honour of the Late Prof. Dr. G. K. Bhat, edited by Saroj Deshpande and Maneesha Dikshit. Pp. 254-278. Pune, India: Dastane Ramchandra & Co. > > I don't have a ready pdf of this publication, but if you don't have access to this book, I can hunt for my copy of it. > > Madhav Deshpande > > On Mon, Apr 13, 2015 at 4:45 PM, Harry Spier > wrote: > Can any list members give me the bibliographic information of any indological articles on the history and use of "?r?" as a honorific or title of respect. Or better yet send me a pdf of any such articles. > > Many thanks, > Harry Spier > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > http://listinfo.indology.info > > > > -- > Madhav M. Deshpande > Professor of Sanskrit and Linguistics > Department of Asian Languages and Cultures > 202 South Thayer Street, Suite 6111 > The University of Michigan > Ann Arbor, MI 48104-1608, USA > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > http://listinfo.indology.info -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From hspier.muktabodha at gmail.com Mon Apr 13 23:07:51 2015 From: hspier.muktabodha at gmail.com (Harry Spier) Date: Mon, 13 Apr 15 19:07:51 -0400 Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_[INDOLOGY]=09Articles_on_history_and_use_of_=C5=9Br=C4=AB_as_title_of_respect?= In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Thank you Madhav for this. I don't have access to a major library for the next few months so if you could find and send me this article it would be greatly appreciated. And thank you Palaniappan for the prakrit information. Harry Spier On Mon, Apr 13, 2015 at 4:59 PM, Madhav Deshpande wrote: > Hello Harry, > > Here is the bibliographic reference to one of my old articles: > > 1993. "Inscriptional Evidence for Honorific ?r? in Indo-Aryan." In *Perspectives > in Indian Aesthetics and Literature, Essays in Honour of the Late Prof. Dr. > G. K. Bhat, *edited by Saroj Deshpande and Maneesha Dikshit. Pp. > 254-278. Pune, India: Dastane Ramchandra & Co. > > I don't have a ready pdf of this publication, but if you don't have > access to this book, I can hunt for my copy of it. > > Madhav Deshpande > > On Mon, Apr 13, 2015 at 4:45 PM, Harry Spier > wrote: > >> Can any list members give me the bibliographic information of any >> indological articles on the history and use of "?r?" as a honorific or >> title of respect. Or better yet send me a pdf of any such articles. >> >> Many thanks, >> Harry Spier >> >> _______________________________________________ >> INDOLOGY mailing list >> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info >> http://listinfo.indology.info >> > > > > -- > Madhav M. Deshpande > Professor of Sanskrit and Linguistics > Department of Asian Languages and Cultures > 202 South Thayer Street, Suite 6111 > The University of Michigan > Ann Arbor, MI 48104-1608, USA > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mmdesh at umich.edu Mon Apr 13 23:42:49 2015 From: mmdesh at umich.edu (Madhav Deshpande) Date: Mon, 13 Apr 15 19:42:49 -0400 Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_[INDOLOGY]=09Articles_on_history_and_use_of_=C5=9Br=C4=AB_as_title_of_respect?= In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I have located the book at home and will try to scan the article in the next few days. Best, Madhav On Mon, Apr 13, 2015 at 7:07 PM, Harry Spier wrote: > Thank you Madhav for this. I don't have access to a major library for the > next few months so if you could find and send me this article it would be > greatly appreciated. > > And thank you Palaniappan for the prakrit information. > > Harry Spier > > On Mon, Apr 13, 2015 at 4:59 PM, Madhav Deshpande > wrote: > >> Hello Harry, >> >> Here is the bibliographic reference to one of my old articles: >> >> 1993. "Inscriptional Evidence for Honorific ?r? in Indo-Aryan." In *Perspectives >> in Indian Aesthetics and Literature, Essays in Honour of the Late Prof. Dr. >> G. K. Bhat, *edited by Saroj Deshpande and Maneesha Dikshit. Pp. >> 254-278. Pune, India: Dastane Ramchandra & Co. >> >> I don't have a ready pdf of this publication, but if you don't have >> access to this book, I can hunt for my copy of it. >> >> Madhav Deshpande >> >> On Mon, Apr 13, 2015 at 4:45 PM, Harry Spier > > wrote: >> >>> Can any list members give me the bibliographic information of any >>> indological articles on the history and use of "?r?" as a honorific or >>> title of respect. Or better yet send me a pdf of any such articles. >>> >>> Many thanks, >>> Harry Spier >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> INDOLOGY mailing list >>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info >>> http://listinfo.indology.info >>> >> >> >> >> -- >> Madhav M. Deshpande >> Professor of Sanskrit and Linguistics >> Department of Asian Languages and Cultures >> 202 South Thayer Street, Suite 6111 >> The University of Michigan >> Ann Arbor, MI 48104-1608, USA >> > > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > http://listinfo.indology.info > -- Madhav M. Deshpande Professor of Sanskrit and Linguistics Department of Asian Languages and Cultures 202 South Thayer Street, Suite 6111 The University of Michigan Ann Arbor, MI 48104-1608, USA -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Palaniappa at aol.com Mon Apr 13 23:48:22 2015 From: Palaniappa at aol.com (Sudalaimuthu Palaniappan) Date: Mon, 13 Apr 15 18:48:22 -0500 Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_[INDOLOGY]_Articles_on_history_and_use_of_=C5=9Br=C4=AB_as_title_of_respect?= In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Sorry, there was a typo in the book title I mentioned. It should be ?Early Tamil Epigraphy?. Regards, Palaniappan > On Apr 13, 2015, at 6:07 PM, Harry Spier wrote: > > Thank you Madhav for this. I don't have access to a major library for the next few months so if you could find and send me this article it would be greatly appreciated. > > And thank you Palaniappan for the prakrit information. > > Harry Spier > > On Mon, Apr 13, 2015 at 4:59 PM, Madhav Deshpande > wrote: > Hello Harry, > > Here is the bibliographic reference to one of my old articles: > > 1993. "Inscriptional Evidence for Honorific ?r? in Indo-Aryan." In Perspectives in Indian Aesthetics and Literature, Essays in Honour of the Late Prof. Dr. G. K. Bhat, edited by Saroj Deshpande and Maneesha Dikshit. Pp. 254-278. Pune, India: Dastane Ramchandra & Co. > > I don't have a ready pdf of this publication, but if you don't have access to this book, I can hunt for my copy of it. > > Madhav Deshpande > > On Mon, Apr 13, 2015 at 4:45 PM, Harry Spier > wrote: > Can any list members give me the bibliographic information of any indological articles on the history and use of "?r?" as a honorific or title of respect. Or better yet send me a pdf of any such articles. > > Many thanks, > Harry Spier > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > http://listinfo.indology.info > > > > -- > Madhav M. Deshpande > Professor of Sanskrit and Linguistics > Department of Asian Languages and Cultures > 202 South Thayer Street, Suite 6111 > The University of Michigan > Ann Arbor, MI 48104-1608, USA > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > http://listinfo.indology.info -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From diwakar.acharya at bun.kyoto-u.ac.jp Tue Apr 14 03:18:58 2015 From: diwakar.acharya at bun.kyoto-u.ac.jp (Diwakar ACHARYA) Date: Tue, 14 Apr 15 12:18:58 +0900 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Siddha <->JIvanmukta In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <1428981538480468.988459724@mail01.iimc.kyoto-u.ac.jp> Patrick's questions: ?Are the terms siddha and j?vanmukta synonymous? If someone is considered to be a siddha, does that imply that they are 'liberated in this lifetime'?? The classical authors, starting from ?a?kara and Ma??ana, raise the same issue but conclude differently. They, however, ask your questions in this way: ?Is a j?vanmukta already a siddha, a man who has already attained liberation, the goal of his life, for whom avidy? has entirely disappeared (vigalitanikhil?vidya? siddha?)?? ?If someone is considered to be a j?vanmukta, does this imply that he is a siddha (in the sense I interpreted in the first question), or that j?vanmukta/siddha is just a figurative expression and a person praised so is still a s?dhaka but has reached a highly advanced stage in spiritual cultivation and waits only for the final realization?? Some of the passages (not all) from ?a?kara, Ma??ana, and also V?caspati, relevant to this issue can be found discussed in the paper attached (pp.424-426). Diwakar ********************* Dr. Diwakar Acharya Associate Professor Graduate School of Letters Kyoto University Yoshida Honmachi, Sakyo-ku Kyoto 606-8501, Japan Tel.: +81 75 753 2803 (office) +81 774 32 3366 (home) ----- Original Message ----- >> From: Brereton, Joel >> To: Indology >> Date: 2015-04-13 06:52:52 >> Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] Siddha <->JIvanmukta >> >> Robert Goodding has generously made his dissertation on the J?vanmuktiviveka available at http://www.robgoodd.com/. >> >> Joel >> >> On Apr 12, 2015, at 4:38 PM, Patrick Olivelle wrote: >> >> With regard to "siddha", there is interesting evidence from a tradition far different from the "religious", and that is Kau?ilya's Artha??stra. There the term is used frequently with regard to monetary matters and bookkeeping, but within a religious context we have both siddha used alone and in the compound siddhat?pasa. In these usages, the reference is to a religious virtuoso who is capable of, or believed capable of, doing extraordinary things. See, for example, Artha??stra: 1.11.16; 1.12.22; 1.21.24; 4.3.13, 25, 44; 4.4.3; 5.1.3; 5.2.39, 41. >> >> For j?vanmukta, from a Advaita and quasi-yoga perspective, see Vidy?ra?ya's J?vanmuktiviveda, newly edited and translated by Robert Gooding, available, I think, through the service that publishes dissertations. >> >> Best, >> >> Patrick >> >> >> >> On Apr 12, 2015, at 3:38 PM, Nagaraj Paturi > wrote: >> >> I agree with Prof. Mathew Kapstein. >> >> The word Siddha has several meanings in several contexts. >> >> The term JIvanmukta too has a huge shades of meaning and a wide varieties of discussion. >> >> There are very small number of occasions the two terms can turn almost synonymous to each other. >> >> Siddha : 1. The one who has achieved one of the ashTa siddhis. 2. One of the (usually seven) devata jatis. 3. A respectable member of the Tamil siddha tradition. 4. A guru of the Shaiva particularly Vira shaiva tradition 5. In the modern theosophical tradition, the one translated into English as a Master. The list goes on. >> >> JIvanmukta : I shall continue in my next post. >> >> -- >> Prof.Nagaraj Paturi >> Hyderabad-500044 >> _______________________________________________ >> INDOLOGY mailing list >> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info >> http://listinfo.indology.info >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> INDOLOGY mailing list >> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info >> http://listinfo.indology.info > -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Acharya20082010Mandana.pdf Type: application/pdf Size: 150172 bytes Desc: not available URL: From dr.rupalimokashi at gmail.com Tue Apr 14 19:24:02 2015 From: dr.rupalimokashi at gmail.com (Dr. Rupali Mokashi) Date: Wed, 15 Apr 15 00:54:02 +0530 Subject: [INDOLOGY] article by Pargitar in the journal of royal asiatic society of great britain and ireland Message-ID: I need an article by Pargiter on imprecations in Sanskrit grants. I do not know the exact title but it was published in the journal of royal asiatic society of great britain and ireland (1912) as quoted by J Jolly. (July 1913) in Imprecations in Indian Land Grants regards Rupali Mokashi http://rupalimokashi.wordpress.com/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From yogacara at gmail.com Tue Apr 14 19:37:45 2015 From: yogacara at gmail.com (Dan Lusthaus) Date: Tue, 14 Apr 15 15:37:45 -0400 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Antarabhava & Vibhasa In-Reply-To: <1428981538480468.988459724@mail01.iimc.kyoto-u.ac.jp> Message-ID: Dear list, Would anyone have a PDF of Kritzer, Robert (1997). ?Antar?bhava in the Vibh???.? Maranatha (N?torudamu Joshi Daigaku Kirisutoky? bunka kenky?jo Kiy?) 5: 91(11)?69(33). ILL has been unsuccessful at procuring a copy, informing me that they can find no library in North America that carries that journal, and "Kyoto Notre Dame Women's University Library only owns this journal, but the library does not provide overseas interlibrary services." Thanks in advance. Dan Lusthaus From yogacara at gmail.com Tue Apr 14 20:41:16 2015 From: yogacara at gmail.com (Dan Lusthaus) Date: Tue, 14 Apr 15 16:41:16 -0400 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Antarabhava & Vibhasa In-Reply-To: <552D76D0.7050909@gmail.com> Message-ID: <370500DE48B24AE7B522BC2BF2CECFCB@Dan> As others have repeatedly said, this list is an amazing resource, and blazingly fast. My thanks to Lin Qian (for sending the article) and Nalini Balbir. Dan Lusthaus From chris_gibbons at me.com Tue Apr 14 23:37:33 2015 From: chris_gibbons at me.com (CHRISTOPHER GIBBONS) Date: Wed, 15 Apr 15 09:37:33 +1000 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Bengali language learning in Dhaka Message-ID: <5070DB65-1F5E-4EBC-99EC-EA79898E91F6@me.com> Dear List members, Can anyone recommend an experienced language school or individual tutor in Dhaka for Bengali language intensives in both speaking and literature reading, very preferably a rickshaw ride away from Baridhara? Current level intermediate. I am not there presently, but will be in July and in the future. The three schools in Banani (google search) would be suitably close, but I am interested in any other recommendations/experiences list members can share. Apologies for the cross posting. I am happy to receive any replies off list. Thank you, Chris Gibbons PhD Candidate School of Historical and Philosophical Inquiry Faculty of Arts The University of Queensland Email: s4297473 at student.uq.edu.au From Ruth.Satinsky at unil.ch Wed Apr 15 20:00:16 2015 From: Ruth.Satinsky at unil.ch (Satinsky Sieber Ruth) Date: Wed, 15 Apr 15 20:00:16 +0000 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Article Search Message-ID: Dear Colleagues, Would anyone by chance have a PDF of: Belvalkar, S. K. (1939): "The cosmographical episode in Mah?bh?rata and Padmapur??a" (In: A Volume of Eastern and Indian Studies Presented to Professor F.W. Thomas, Ed. S. M. Katre & P. K. Gode. Bombay: Karnatak Publishing House (New Indian Antiquary, Extra Series 1.) Pp. 19-28. Thank you very much. Ruth Satinsky Doctoral Candidate Department of South Asian Languages and Civilisations Faculty of Arts University of Lausanne Switzerland -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From paoloe.rosati at gmail.com Wed Apr 15 20:17:46 2015 From: paoloe.rosati at gmail.com (Paolo Eugenio Rosati) Date: Wed, 15 Apr 15 22:17:46 +0200 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Yantra symbol and non-Aryan culture Message-ID: Dear friends of Indology list, maybe somone can help me... I'm looking for bibliographical references regarding the origns of *yantra *symbol in South Asia (specially in north-eastern India). Mainly I would like to know if there is any study regarding the relationship between *yantra *(or triangle) and tribal or non-Aryan cultures. Best wishes, Paolo E. Rosati -- PhD candidate in "Civilizations of Asia and Africa" ?'Sapienza' University of Rome ??Department Italian Institute of Oriental Studies (?South Asia Section?) skype: paoloe.rosati -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From david_buchta at brown.edu Wed Apr 15 22:01:32 2015 From: david_buchta at brown.edu (Buchta, David) Date: Wed, 15 Apr 15 18:01:32 -0400 Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_[INDOLOGY]_siddha_<->_j=C4=ABvanmukta_=3F?= In-Reply-To: <1428770103-8538785.49632271.ft3BGYaD0007652@rs143.luxsci.com> Message-ID: Dear Patrick, A couple of great resources on this topic are Wendy Doniger's edited volume (as O'Flaherty) *Karma and Rebirth in Classical Indian Traditions (*particularly the chapters by Long, Potter, and Halbfass) and Fort and Mumme's edited volume *Living Liberation in Hindu Thought*. Regards, David -- David Buchta Lecturer in Sanskrit Department of Classics Brown University -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rsalomon at u.washington.edu Thu Apr 16 01:04:46 2015 From: rsalomon at u.washington.edu (Richard Salomon) Date: Wed, 15 Apr 15 18:04:46 -0700 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Vidyullata commentary on Meghaduta Message-ID: <552F0AAE.7090509@u.washington.edu> Does anyone know of an on-line copy of "Meghasandesa of Kalidasa with the commentary 'Vidyullata,'" ed. R.V. Krishnamachariar, Srirangam (Sri Vani Vilas Press), 1909 (+ possibly reprinted 1926)? Thanks in advance, Rich Salomon -- ---------------------- Richard Salomon Department of Asian Languages and Literature University of Washington, Box 353521 Seattle WA 98195-3521 USA From psdmccartney at gmail.com Thu Apr 16 04:06:55 2015 From: psdmccartney at gmail.com (patrick mccartney) Date: Thu, 16 Apr 15 09:36:55 +0530 Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_[INDOLOGY]_siddha_<->_j=C4=ABvanmukta_=3F?= In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Thank you to every one who has helped me with my query. I really appreciate it. Best, Patrick On 16/04/2015 3:31 AM, "Buchta, David" wrote: > Dear Patrick, > > A couple of great resources on this topic are Wendy Doniger's edited > volume (as O'Flaherty) *Karma and Rebirth in Classical Indian Traditions > (*particularly the chapters by Long, Potter, and Halbfass) and Fort and > Mumme's edited volume *Living Liberation in Hindu Thought*. > > Regards, > David > > -- > David Buchta > Lecturer in Sanskrit > Department of Classics > Brown University > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From wujastyk at gmail.com Thu Apr 16 07:30:24 2015 From: wujastyk at gmail.com (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Thu, 16 Apr 15 09:30:24 +0200 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Article Search In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Here's a link to the Thomas volume . -- Dr Dominik Wujastyk Department of South Asia, Tibetan and Buddhist Studies , University of Vienna, Spitalgasse 2-4, Courtyard 2, Entrance 2.1 1090 Vienna, Austria and Adjunct Professor, Division of Health and Humanities, St. John's Research Institute, Bangalore, India. Project | home page | HSSA | PGP On 15 April 2015 at 22:00, Satinsky Sieber Ruth wrote: > Dear Colleagues, > > Would anyone by chance have a PDF of: > > Belvalkar, S. K. (1939): "The cosmographical episode in Mah?bh?rata and > Padmapur??a" (In: A Volume of Eastern and Indian > Studies Presented to Professor F.W. Thomas, Ed. S. M. Katre & P. K. Gode. > Bombay: Karnatak Publishing House (New Indian Antiquary, Extra Series 1.) > Pp. 19-28. > > Thank you very much. > > Ruth Satinsky > Doctoral Candidate > Department of South Asian Languages and Civilisations > Faculty of Arts > University of Lausanne > Switzerland > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > http://listinfo.indology.info > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mkapstei at uchicago.edu Thu Apr 16 08:03:26 2015 From: mkapstei at uchicago.edu (Matthew Kapstein) Date: Thu, 16 Apr 15 08:03:26 +0000 Subject: [INDOLOGY] cArvAka/lokAyata Message-ID: <82C3E42590D939418C74DD76B97DDED0374F9AFD@xm-mbx-04-prod.ad.uchicago.edu> Dear colleagues, Might any of you be aware of positive epigraphical evidence of teachers designated as cArvAka or lokAyata. I am of course aware of the literary references, but am here solely concerned with whether or not we find any epigraphical support. with thanks in advance, Matthew Matthew Kapstein Directeur d'?tudes, Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes Numata Visiting Professor of Buddhist Studies, The University of Chicago ________________________________ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Ruth.Satinsky at unil.ch Thu Apr 16 08:46:39 2015 From: Ruth.Satinsky at unil.ch (Satinsky Sieber Ruth) Date: Thu, 16 Apr 15 08:46:39 +0000 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Belvalkar Article Found Message-ID: My sincere thanks to Petteri Koskikallio and to Dominik Wujastyk for the Belvalkar article: "The cosmographical episode in Mah?bh?rata and Padmapur??a." Best wishes, Ruth Satinsky -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rsalomon at u.washington.edu Thu Apr 16 16:45:29 2015 From: rsalomon at u.washington.edu (Richard Salomon) Date: Thu, 16 Apr 15 09:45:29 -0700 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Vidyullata commentary Message-ID: <552FE729.7040604@u.washington.edu> Thanks to Alessandro Battistini and several others who promptly provided responses to my request for help with the Vidyullata commentary on Meghaduta. Rich -- ---------------------- Richard Salomon Department of Asian Languages and Literature University of Washington, Box 353521 Seattle WA 98195-3521 USA From rajam at earthlink.net Thu Apr 16 18:53:57 2015 From: rajam at earthlink.net (rajam) Date: Thu, 16 Apr 15 11:53:57 -0700 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Eight types of marriages ... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3AA234D9-D540-4649-B5FF-E5252B1A578C@earthlink.net> Many thanks to all the members for sending me useful information about the ?eight types of marriages? in non-Tamil texts. I think I need to read and search further. I?m looking for what exactly is ?taught? to the bride at the wedding. The Tamil word ?kaRpu; ka?pu; ?????? is normally understood to mean ?chastity; marital fidelity? and is invariably associated with women. Unfortunately (?) / Truthfully (!), this word (?kaRpu; ka?pu; ??????) is NOT restricted to women as we know from ancient Tamil literature. The semantics of the word ?kaRpu; ka?pu; ?????)? is ?learning/maturing.? kaRpu < kal ?to mature, learn." So, naturally I want to know what the bride was ?told? to ?learn? during the wedding ceremony. Was the bridegroom ?told/taught? to be ?chaste?? [I wish I had the opportunity to learn Sanskrit when I was growing up in South India and had the capability to understand what was chanted during my wedding ceremony. I don?t think even my husband understood what was recited by the ?prohit/priest? and he was asked to repeat!] When I gather relevant information for my quest and manage to write an article comparing the Tamil and non-Tamil perspectives, I?d like to send it to interested scholars for feedback. Thanks and regards, V.S.Rajam > On Apr 9, 2015, at 10:23 AM, rajam wrote: > > Dear List Members, > > I?m re-searching/re-studying the Tamil text iRaiyanAr kaLaviyal (i?aiya??r ka?aviyal; ???????? ???????). > > In this text, a comparison is made between the ?gandharva? type of marriage among the ?eight types of marriages? (of the Vedic tradition?) to kaLavu (ka?avu; ????) of the Tamil type. > > I would appreciate to have access to the earliest reference (and relevant interpretations) of the ?eight types of marriages (ashTavivAha)? as mentioned in the Vedic (?) tradition. > > > I have several questions, but for now here are my specific questions: > > 1. In which type of marriage(s) did a woman have the right to choose her partner/husband? > > 2. What was the basic criterion for giving away a bride in marriage to someone OR taking a bride? > > 3. What is told/informed to a bride and groom during the wedding ceremony about ?marital fidelity?? > > 4. What is the precise Vedic (?) term for ?marital fidelity?? > > Thanks and regards, > V.S.Rajam > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rajam at earthlink.net Fri Apr 17 00:49:24 2015 From: rajam at earthlink.net (rajam) Date: Thu, 16 Apr 15 17:49:24 -0700 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Eight types of marriages ... In-Reply-To: <3AA234D9-D540-4649-B5FF-E5252B1A578C@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <45C6B16D-087D-4C5A-8AC8-9DF915601090@earthlink.net> Dear Manu Francis, George Thompson, Nagaraj Paturi, and others interested in this topic ? To give you a spec of the Tamil perspective ? In the Old Tamil anthology called the Akananuru (akan????u; ????????) there?s some reference to what the bride was ?told? during the wedding. Loosely translated: ?Without erring from being ?chaste,? assist him and be a loving partner to him who has taken you (as his bride)? (Akananuru 86:13-14) Here, I?ve translated the word ?kaRpu? as ?chaste? for easy reference. ++++++++++++ Is there something similar found in non-Tamil texts? Thanks and regards, Rajam > On Apr 16, 2015, at 11:53 AM, rajam wrote: > > Many thanks to all the members for sending me useful information about the ?eight types of marriages? in non-Tamil texts. > > I think I need to read and search further. > > I?m looking for what exactly is ?taught? to the bride at the wedding. > > The Tamil word ?kaRpu; ka?pu; ?????? is normally understood to mean ?chastity; marital fidelity? and is invariably associated with women. > > Unfortunately (?) / Truthfully (!), this word (?kaRpu; ka?pu; ??????) is NOT restricted to women as we know from ancient Tamil literature. The semantics of the word ?kaRpu; ka?pu; ?????)? is ?learning/maturing.? kaRpu < kal ?to mature, learn." > > So, naturally I want to know what the bride was ?told? to ?learn? during the wedding ceremony. Was the bridegroom ?told/taught? to be ?chaste?? > > [I wish I had the opportunity to learn Sanskrit when I was growing up in South India and had the capability to understand what was chanted during my wedding ceremony. I don?t think even my husband understood what was recited by the ?prohit/priest? and he was asked to repeat!] > > When I gather relevant information for my quest and manage to write an article comparing the Tamil and non-Tamil perspectives, I?d like to send it to interested scholars for feedback. > > Thanks and regards, > V.S.Rajam > > > >> On Apr 9, 2015, at 10:23 AM, rajam > wrote: >> >> Dear List Members, >> >> I?m re-searching/re-studying the Tamil text iRaiyanAr kaLaviyal (i?aiya??r ka?aviyal; ???????? ???????). >> >> In this text, a comparison is made between the ?gandharva? type of marriage among the ?eight types of marriages? (of the Vedic tradition?) to kaLavu (ka?avu; ????) of the Tamil type. >> >> I would appreciate to have access to the earliest reference (and relevant interpretations) of the ?eight types of marriages (ashTavivAha)? as mentioned in the Vedic (?) tradition. >> >> >> I have several questions, but for now here are my specific questions: >> >> 1. In which type of marriage(s) did a woman have the right to choose her partner/husband? >> >> 2. What was the basic criterion for giving away a bride in marriage to someone OR taking a bride? >> >> 3. What is told/informed to a bride and groom during the wedding ceremony about ?marital fidelity?? >> >> 4. What is the precise Vedic (?) term for ?marital fidelity?? >> >> Thanks and regards, >> V.S.Rajam >> >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > http://listinfo.indology.info -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From nagarajpaturi at gmail.com Fri Apr 17 08:42:29 2015 From: nagarajpaturi at gmail.com (Nagaraj Paturi) Date: Fri, 17 Apr 15 14:12:29 +0530 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Eight types of marriages...... Message-ID: In an earlier post I said, "For the remaining such oaths taken by bride and bridegroom during the marriage ritual, you might want to refer to one of the huge number of publications of Vivaha mantras abundantly available on and offline" For the specific instance enquired by Prof. Rajam, let me direct you website addressing Tamil audience: *Placing a Child on B's Lap: * So far, B has been sitting to the right of BG. Now she shifts and sits to his left side. A male child from a family in which no death of a child has taken place, is made to sit on the lap of B. ( The idea is B should get such healthy male children.) The child is given fruits with a mantras which convey the following meaning: "Oh fruits, as you cause growth in those who eat you, bless this girl with good progeny." "Let the children so born bring love and affection." Addressing B, the mantra says: "*Be aware of your duties to your husband and guests; propagate good deeds to all those you have contacts*." "Let this pure girl be blessed with happiness and prosperity." -- Prof.Nagaraj Paturi Hyderabad-500044 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From manufrancis at gmail.com Fri Apr 17 10:58:31 2015 From: manufrancis at gmail.com (Manu Francis) Date: Fri, 17 Apr 15 12:58:31 +0200 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Tamil currency symbol Message-ID: Dear Colleagues, In one of the Tamil manuscripts I am working on, I have found the mention of a price. This currency is expressed by a symbol (see attached images). I guess this symbol means "rupee", but I am not sure. Has any of you ever seen such a symbol? Or could direct me towards any source illustrating currency symbols used in Tamil and/or Indian manuscripts/inscriptions? With many thanks in advance. -- Emmanuel Francis Charg? de recherche CNRS, Centre d'?tude de l'Inde et de l'Asie du Sud (UMR 8564, EHESS-CNRS, Paris) http://ceias.ehess.fr/ http://ceias.ehess.fr/index.php?1725 http://rcsi.hypotheses.org/ Associate member, Centre for the Study of Manuscript Culture (SFB 950, Universit?t Hamburg) http://www.manuscript-cultures.uni-hamburg.de/index_e.html https://cnrs.academia.edu/emmanuelfrancis -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: currency_symbol1.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 17984 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: currency_symbol2.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 39220 bytes Desc: not available URL: From LubinT at wlu.edu Fri Apr 17 11:54:53 2015 From: LubinT at wlu.edu (Lubin, Tim) Date: Fri, 17 Apr 15 11:54:53 +0000 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Tamil currency symbol In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Manu, Pope?s Tamil Hand-Book (2nd ed., 1859), p. 18, gives a useful list of such symbols used in ?Cutchery Tamil? of the colonial period, but I do not find your symbol among them. I attach the relevant page. Best, Tim Timothy Lubin Professor of Religion and Adjunct Professor of Law Washington and Lee University Lexington, Virginia 24450 http://home.wlu.edu/~lubint http://wlu.academia.edu/TimothyLubin https://twitter.com/TimothyLubin ? From: Manu Francis > Date: Friday, April 17, 2015 at 6:58 AM To: Indology > Subject: [INDOLOGY] Tamil currency symbol Dear Colleagues, In one of the Tamil manuscripts I am working on, I have found the mention of a price. This currency is expressed by a symbol (see attached images). I guess this symbol means "rupee", but I am not sure. Has any of you ever seen such a symbol? Or could direct me towards any source illustrating currency symbols used in Tamil and/or Indian manuscripts/inscriptions? With many thanks in advance. -- Emmanuel Francis Charg? de recherche CNRS, Centre d'?tude de l'Inde et de l'Asie du Sud (UMR 8564, EHESS-CNRS, Paris) http://ceias.ehess.fr/ http://ceias.ehess.fr/index.php?1725 http://rcsi.hypotheses.org/ Associate member, Centre for the Study of Manuscript Culture (SFB 950, Universit?t Hamburg) http://www.manuscript-cultures.uni-hamburg.de/index_e.html https://cnrs.academia.edu/emmanuelfrancis -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: TamilAbbreviations.Pope.1859.pdf Type: application/pdf Size: 200118 bytes Desc: not available URL: From LubinT at wlu.edu Fri Apr 17 12:04:34 2015 From: LubinT at wlu.edu (Lubin, Tim) Date: Fri, 17 Apr 15 12:04:34 +0000 Subject: [INDOLOGY] FW: Tamil currency symbol In-Reply-To: Message-ID: P.S., I should add that Reinhold Gr?nendahl gives a similar, even larger list on pp. 52?54 of his wonderful volume, South Indian Scripts in Sanskrit Manuscripts and Prints (Harrassowitz, 2001). But I still do not see your symbol. Tim From: , Tim > Date: Friday, April 17, 2015 at 7:54 AM To: Manu Francis >, Indology > Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] Tamil currency symbol Manu, Pope?s Tamil Hand-Book (2nd ed., 1859), p. 18, gives a useful list of such symbols used in ?Cutchery Tamil? of the colonial period, but I do not find your symbol among them. I attach the relevant page. Best, Tim Timothy Lubin Professor of Religion and Adjunct Professor of Law Washington and Lee University Lexington, Virginia 24450 http://home.wlu.edu/~lubint http://wlu.academia.edu/TimothyLubin https://twitter.com/TimothyLubin ? From: Manu Francis > Date: Friday, April 17, 2015 at 6:58 AM To: Indology > Subject: [INDOLOGY] Tamil currency symbol Dear Colleagues, In one of the Tamil manuscripts I am working on, I have found the mention of a price. This currency is expressed by a symbol (see attached images). I guess this symbol means "rupee", but I am not sure. Has any of you ever seen such a symbol? Or could direct me towards any source illustrating currency symbols used in Tamil and/or Indian manuscripts/inscriptions? With many thanks in advance. -- Emmanuel Francis Charg? de recherche CNRS, Centre d'?tude de l'Inde et de l'Asie du Sud (UMR 8564, EHESS-CNRS, Paris) http://ceias.ehess.fr/ http://ceias.ehess.fr/index.php?1725 http://rcsi.hypotheses.org/ Associate member, Centre for the Study of Manuscript Culture (SFB 950, Universit?t Hamburg) http://www.manuscript-cultures.uni-hamburg.de/index_e.html https://cnrs.academia.edu/emmanuelfrancis -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: TamilAbbreviations.Pope.1859.pdf Type: application/pdf Size: 200118 bytes Desc: not available URL: From jean-luc.chevillard at univ-paris-diderot.fr Fri Apr 17 12:40:03 2015 From: jean-luc.chevillard at univ-paris-diderot.fr (Jean-Luc Chevillard) Date: Fri, 17 Apr 15 14:40:03 +0200 Subject: [INDOLOGY] FW: Tamil currency symbol In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <5530FF23.6040204@univ-paris-diderot.fr> Dear Manu, dear Tim, Could it be a price in r??ki?? The symbol resembles the one provided by Dr JayBee (from Malysia) on: "http://jaybeesnotebook.blogspot.in/2012/02/tamil-accountancy-symbols-1.html" I arrived to this page, starting from this document (prepared by Dr Shriramana Sharma): "http://www.unicode.org/L2/L2012/12231-tamil-fractions-symbols-proposal.pdf" Best wishes -- Jean-Luc (Paris) "https://univ-paris-diderot.academia.edu/JeanLucChevillard" "https://plus.google.com/u/0/113653379205101980081/posts/p/pub" "https://twitter.com/JLC1956" On 17/04/2015 14:04, Lubin, Tim wrote: > P.S., I should add that Reinhold Gr?nendahl gives a similar, even larger list on pp. 52?54 of his wonderful volume, South Indian Scripts in Sanskrit Manuscripts and Prints (Harrassowitz, 2001). But I still do not see your symbol. > > Tim > > From: , Tim > > Date: Friday, April 17, 2015 at 7:54 AM > To: Manu Francis >, Indology > > Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] Tamil currency symbol > > Manu, > > Pope?s Tamil Hand-Book (2nd ed., 1859), p. 18, gives a useful list of such symbols used in ?Cutchery Tamil? of the colonial period, but I do not find your symbol among them. I attach the relevant page. > > Best, > > Tim > > Timothy Lubin > Professor of Religion and Adjunct Professor of Law > Washington and Lee University > Lexington, Virginia 24450 > > http://home.wlu.edu/~lubint > http://wlu.academia.edu/TimothyLubin > https://twitter.com/TimothyLubin > ? > > From: Manu Francis > > Date: Friday, April 17, 2015 at 6:58 AM > To: Indology > > Subject: [INDOLOGY] Tamil currency symbol > > Dear Colleagues, > > In one of the Tamil manuscripts I am working on, I have found the mention of a price. > This currency is expressed by a symbol (see attached images). > I guess this symbol means "rupee", but I am not sure. > Has any of you ever seen such a symbol? > Or could direct me towards any source illustrating currency symbols used in Tamil and/or Indian manuscripts/inscriptions? > > With many thanks in advance. > > -- > > Emmanuel Francis > Charg? de recherche CNRS, Centre d'?tude de l'Inde et de l'Asie du Sud (UMR 8564, EHESS-CNRS, Paris) > http://ceias.ehess.fr/ > http://ceias.ehess.fr/index.php?1725 > http://rcsi.hypotheses.org/ > Associate member, Centre for the Study of Manuscript Culture (SFB 950, Universit?t Hamburg) > http://www.manuscript-cultures.uni-hamburg.de/index_e.html > https://cnrs.academia.edu/emmanuelfrancis > > > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > http://listinfo.indology.info > From manufrancis at gmail.com Fri Apr 17 13:29:16 2015 From: manufrancis at gmail.com (Manu Francis) Date: Fri, 17 Apr 15 15:29:16 +0200 Subject: [INDOLOGY] FW: Tamil currency symbol In-Reply-To: <5530FF23.6040204@univ-paris-diderot.fr> Message-ID: Dear Jean-Luc and Tim, Thanks for your feedback!!! I think, Jean-Luc, that you have answered my query. Which forces me to reconsider this MS as produced in the Malay world or for the Malay market. There are unfortunately no scribal colophon in it. With very best wishes. Manu Emmanuel Francis Charg? de recherche CNRS, Centre d'?tude de l'Inde et de l'Asie du Sud (UMR 8564, EHESS-CNRS, Paris) http://ceias.ehess.fr/ http://ceias.ehess.fr/index.php?1725 http://rcsi.hypotheses.org/ Associate member, Centre for the Study of Manuscript Culture (SFB 950, Universit?t Hamburg) http://www.manuscript-cultures.uni-hamburg.de/index_e.html https://cnrs.academia.edu/emmanuelfrancis 2015-04-17 14:40 GMT+02:00 Jean-Luc Chevillard < jean-luc.chevillard at univ-paris-diderot.fr>: > Dear Manu, dear Tim, > > Could it be a price in r??ki?? > > The symbol resembles the one provided by Dr JayBee (from Malysia) on: > " > http://jaybeesnotebook.blogspot.in/2012/02/tamil-accountancy-symbols-1.html > " > > I arrived to this page, starting from this document (prepared by Dr > Shriramana Sharma): > " > http://www.unicode.org/L2/L2012/12231-tamil-fractions-symbols-proposal.pdf > " > > Best wishes > > -- Jean-Luc (Paris) > > > "https://univ-paris-diderot.academia.edu/JeanLucChevillard" > > "https://plus.google.com/u/0/113653379205101980081/posts/p/pub" > > "https://twitter.com/JLC1956" > > > On 17/04/2015 14:04, Lubin, Tim wrote: > >> P.S., I should add that Reinhold Gr?nendahl gives a similar, even larger >> list on pp. 52?54 of his wonderful volume, South Indian Scripts in Sanskrit >> Manuscripts and Prints (Harrassowitz, 2001). But I still do not see your >> symbol. >> >> Tim >> >> From: , Tim > >> Date: Friday, April 17, 2015 at 7:54 AM >> To: Manu Francis >, >> Indology > >> >> Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] Tamil currency symbol >> >> Manu, >> >> Pope?s Tamil Hand-Book (2nd ed., 1859), p. 18, gives a useful list of >> such symbols used in ?Cutchery Tamil? of the colonial period, but I do not >> find your symbol among them. I attach the relevant page. >> >> Best, >> >> Tim >> >> Timothy Lubin >> Professor of Religion and Adjunct Professor of Law >> Washington and Lee University >> Lexington, Virginia 24450 >> >> http://home.wlu.edu/~lubint >> http://wlu.academia.edu/TimothyLubin >> https://twitter.com/TimothyLubin >> ? >> >> From: Manu Francis > >> Date: Friday, April 17, 2015 at 6:58 AM >> To: Indology > indology at list.indology.info>> >> Subject: [INDOLOGY] Tamil currency symbol >> >> Dear Colleagues, >> >> In one of the Tamil manuscripts I am working on, I have found the mention >> of a price. >> This currency is expressed by a symbol (see attached images). >> I guess this symbol means "rupee", but I am not sure. >> Has any of you ever seen such a symbol? >> Or could direct me towards any source illustrating currency symbols used >> in Tamil and/or Indian manuscripts/inscriptions? >> >> With many thanks in advance. >> >> -- >> >> Emmanuel Francis >> Charg? de recherche CNRS, Centre d'?tude de l'Inde et de l'Asie du Sud >> (UMR 8564, EHESS-CNRS, Paris) >> http://ceias.ehess.fr/ >> http://ceias.ehess.fr/index.php?1725 >> http://rcsi.hypotheses.org/ >> Associate member, Centre for the Study of Manuscript Culture (SFB 950, >> Universit?t Hamburg) >> http://www.manuscript-cultures.uni-hamburg.de/index_e.html >> https://cnrs.academia.edu/emmanuelfrancis >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> INDOLOGY mailing list >> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info >> http://listinfo.indology.info >> >> > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From j.jurewicz at uw.edu.pl Fri Apr 17 21:19:06 2015 From: j.jurewicz at uw.edu.pl (Joanna Jurewicz) Date: Fri, 17 Apr 15 23:19:06 +0200 Subject: [INDOLOGY] PhD Oriental Studies at the University of Warsaw Message-ID: Dear All, Could you circulate this proposal among your colleagues, not only connected with Indology, but also with other Oriental studies? This is a proposal for Oriental PhD studies with an introduction to cognitive linguistics: http://www.orient.uw.edu.pl/en/phd_studies.html For any further information, please contact me. Thanks a lot. With best wishes, Joanna Jurewicz --- dr hab. Joanna Jurewicz, prof. UW Katedra Azji Po?udniowej /Chair of South Asia Wydzia? Orientalistyczny / Faculty of Oriental Studies Uniwersytet Warszawski /University of Warsaw ul. Krakowskie Przedmie?cie 26/28 00-927 Warszawa https://uw.academia.edu/JoannaJurewicz -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rajam at earthlink.net Fri Apr 17 23:34:37 2015 From: rajam at earthlink.net (rajam) Date: Fri, 17 Apr 15 16:34:37 -0700 Subject: [INDOLOGY] How to unsubscribe from Indology? Message-ID: Not that I?m thinking of moving away from this extremely scholarly list, but was just wondering about the process of withdrawing. Couldn?t anyone just withdraw without making any noise about it? Thanks and regards, V.S.Rajam -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tubb at uchicago.edu Sat Apr 18 01:03:36 2015 From: tubb at uchicago.edu (Gary Tubb) Date: Fri, 17 Apr 15 20:03:36 -0500 Subject: [INDOLOGY] How to unsubscribe from Indology? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <5531AD68.8010901@uchicago.edu> You are quite right in saying that members of the Indology list can easily withdraw from the list, by visiting the Indology information page at listinfo.indology.info, where they may also change their subscription options. It often happens, however, that members ask Indology's governing committee to carry out these tasks for them. Sometimes this happens because they have not noticed that they are able to do this for themselves. Things would be a bit easier if more members of the list were as well-informed as you. But it may also happen, especially with actions such as unsubscribing that might be interpreted as implying dissatisfaction, that members may wish to record the reasons for their decision. This they may do either by posting a message to the entire Indology list at indology at list.indology.info, or by sending an email to the governing committee at indology-owner at list.indology.info. The list is fortunate in having members who, more often than not, receive complaints sent to the list with considerate attention, despite the demands that these make on their time. Complaints sent to the governing committee are treated as confidential, and the committee gives careful thought (despite similar demands) to what action, if any, is called for in response, and whether any resulting communications should be public (through the list at large) or private (which is often sufficient because of the prevailingly collegial attitude of our members). Yours, Gary Tubb, Member of the Governing Committee. Gary Tubb Professor, Dept. of South Asian Languages and Civilizations Faculty Director, The University of Chicago Center in Delhi On 4/17/15 6:34 PM, rajam wrote: > Not that I?m thinking of moving away from this extremely scholarly > list, but was just wondering about the process of withdrawing. > > Couldn?t anyone just withdraw without making any noise about it? > > Thanks and regards, > V.S.Rajam -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From suresh.kolichala at gmail.com Sat Apr 18 01:28:39 2015 From: suresh.kolichala at gmail.com (Suresh Kolichala) Date: Fri, 17 Apr 15 21:28:39 -0400 Subject: [INDOLOGY] How to unsubscribe from Indology? In-Reply-To: <5531AD68.8010901@uchicago.edu> Message-ID: Dear Rajam, A better URL to login into indology mailman options would be: http://list.indology.info/mailman/options/indology_list.indology.info If you want to unsubscribe, click "Unsubscribe" in the second block. For editing other subscription options, you need to login first. Those of us who do not know or do not remember the password for their indology subscription, can use the third block titled "Password Reminder" to remind the password. Once you login into your account with the password you can unsubscribe, or change your delivery options. One of the subscription options allows you to temporarily disable mail delivery. The options table looks something similar to the following: *Your INDOLOGY Subscription Options* *Current values are checked.* Note that some of the options have a *Set globally* checkbox. Checking this field will cause the changes to be made to every mailing list that you are a member of on list.indology.info. Click on *List my other subscriptions* above to see which other mailing lists you are subscribed to. *Mail delivery* Set this option to *Enabled* to receive messages posted to this mailing list. Set it to *Disabled* if you want to stay subscribed, but don't want mail delivered to you for a while (e.g. you're going on vacation). If you disable mail delivery, don't forget to re-enable it when you come back; it will not be automatically re-enabled. Enabled Disabled *Set globally* You can select the choices on various options, and click submit at the bottom to make changes on the server. Is this what you are looking for? Suresh. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rajam at earthlink.net Sat Apr 18 01:45:53 2015 From: rajam at earthlink.net (rajam) Date: Fri, 17 Apr 15 18:45:53 -0700 Subject: [INDOLOGY] How to unsubscribe from Indology? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <7CB71E48-A744-4CE3-A3AB-7B1964B393E2@earthlink.net> Dear Suresh, Many thanks for the information! I was asking for general information since I had a feeling that some members had been complaining privately about some postings and so wanted to be unsubscribed ? and so on. I was wondering why those people wouldn?t just unsubscribe using the technology instead of complaining! Oh, well. I?m not going to unsubscribe myself from this list unless the Committee decides to expel me out for any ?judicial? reason!!! ;-) Thanks and regards, V.S.Rajam > On Apr 17, 2015, at 6:28 PM, Suresh Kolichala wrote: > > Dear Rajam, > > A better URL to login into indology mailman options would be: http://list.indology.info/mailman/options/indology_list.indology.info > > If you want to unsubscribe, click "Unsubscribe" in the second block. > > For editing other subscription options, you need to login first. Those of us who do not know or do not remember the password for their indology subscription, can use the third block titled "Password Reminder" to remind the password. Once you login into your account with the password you can unsubscribe, or change your delivery options. > > One of the subscription options allows you to temporarily disable mail delivery. The options table looks something similar to the following: > > Your INDOLOGY Subscription Options > > Current values are checked. > > Note that some of the options have a Set globally checkbox. Checking this field will cause the changes to be made to every mailing list that you are a member of on list.indology.info . Click on List my other subscriptions above to see which other mailing lists you are subscribed to. > > > Mail delivery <> > Set this option to Enabled to receive messages posted to this mailing list. Set it to Disabled if you want to stay subscribed, but don't want mail delivered to you for a while (e.g. you're going on vacation). If you disable mail delivery, don't forget to re-enable it when you come back; it will not be automatically re-enabled. > > Enabled > Disabled > Set globally > > > > You can select the choices on various options, and click submit at the bottom to make changes on the server. Is this what you are looking for? > > Suresh. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From martin.gansten at pbhome.se Sat Apr 18 08:44:38 2015 From: martin.gansten at pbhome.se (Martin Gansten) Date: Sat, 18 Apr 15 10:44:38 +0200 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Pragvata/Porwad/etc and the suffix -simha Message-ID: <55321976.4060602@pbhome.se> I am currently looking at two Sanskrit authors probably from the Saur???ra region: Samarasi?ha (possibly 13th century, and in any event prior to ->) and Teja?si?ha (fl. 1337 CE). Both emphasize belonging to the Pr?gva?a community, and both claim a family connection as ministers/advisors to Caulukya rulers. I confess an almost complete ignorance of the Pr?gva?as, although a quick web search tells me that they are commonly known today as Porwad or Porwal and comprise both Hindus and Jains. Later authors claim Samarasi?ha as a Brahmin, and so my first question is whether this is correct for a self-proclaimed Pr?gva?a -- or rather, if it would have been correct in 13th-century Saur???ra. Were the Pr?gva?as/Porwads at that time and place Hindus (= non-Jains), and if so, were they considered Brahmins? I also wonder what the suffix -si?ha might have implied in this historical context. Several ancestors of these two authors had names ending in it as well: Ca??asi?ha, Kum?rasi?ha, Vijayasi?ha. Does this tell us anything of their origins, status or affiliations? With many thanks in advance, as always, for any light that list members may be able to shed on this, Martin Gansten From dipak.d2004 at gmail.com Sat Apr 18 11:19:50 2015 From: dipak.d2004 at gmail.com (Dipak Bhattacharya) Date: Sat, 18 Apr 15 16:49:50 +0530 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Pragvata/Porwad/etc and the suffix -simha In-Reply-To: <55321976.4060602@pbhome.se> Message-ID: There are many queries. Among them the title Simha/Sinha etc are assumed outside the Sikh community by landlords. It looks like a feudal inheritance. It may be of Rajput origin Best DB On Sat, Apr 18, 2015 at 2:14 PM, Martin Gansten wrote: > I am currently looking at two Sanskrit authors probably from the Saur???ra > region: Samarasi?ha (possibly 13th century, and in any event prior to ->) > and Teja?si?ha (fl. 1337 CE). Both emphasize belonging to the Pr?gva?a > community, and both claim a family connection as ministers/advisors to > Caulukya rulers. > > I confess an almost complete ignorance of the Pr?gva?as, although a quick > web search tells me that they are commonly known today as Porwad or Porwal > and comprise both Hindus and Jains. Later authors claim Samarasi?ha as a > Brahmin, and so my first question is whether this is correct for a > self-proclaimed Pr?gva?a -- or rather, if it would have been correct in > 13th-century Saur???ra. Were the Pr?gva?as/Porwads at that time and place > Hindus (= non-Jains), and if so, were they considered Brahmins? > > I also wonder what the suffix -si?ha might have implied in this historical > context. Several ancestors of these two authors had names ending in it as > well: Ca??asi?ha, Kum?rasi?ha, Vijayasi?ha. Does this tell us anything of > their origins, status or affiliations? > > With many thanks in advance, as always, for any light that list members > may be able to shed on this, > > Martin Gansten > > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > http://listinfo.indology.info -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From wujastyk at gmail.com Sat Apr 18 11:39:49 2015 From: wujastyk at gmail.com (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Sat, 18 Apr 15 13:39:49 +0200 Subject: [INDOLOGY] How to unsubscribe from Indology? In-Reply-To: <5531AD68.8010901@uchicago.edu> Message-ID: ?I have made some small changes to the footer that is automatically appended to all INDOLOGY messages, just to make some of these options a bit clearer. Dominik Wujastyk Member of the Governing Committee -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From nagarajpaturi at gmail.com Mon Apr 20 06:26:19 2015 From: nagarajpaturi at gmail.com (Nagaraj Paturi) Date: Mon, 20 Apr 15 11:56:19 +0530 Subject: [INDOLOGY] madhyaanha sandhyaa Message-ID: Some one asked me to know the origin of the practice, idea and name of madhyaanh sandhyaa. I am trying to trace. I will be grateful for any pointers. Thanks in advance. -- Prof.Nagaraj Paturi Hyderabad-500044 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From nagarajpaturi at gmail.com Mon Apr 20 06:36:26 2015 From: nagarajpaturi at gmail.com (Nagaraj Paturi) Date: Mon, 20 Apr 15 12:06:26 +0530 Subject: [INDOLOGY] madhyaahna sandhyaa Message-ID: Let me reword my question: Some one wanted to know from me the origin of the practice, idea and name of madhyaanh sandhyaa. I am trying to trace. I will be grateful for any pointers. Thanks in advance -- Prof.Nagaraj Paturi Hyderabad-500044 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From chris.clark at inbox.com Mon Apr 20 09:44:23 2015 From: chris.clark at inbox.com (Chris Clark) Date: Mon, 20 Apr 15 01:44:23 -0800 Subject: =?utf-8?Q?[INDOLOGY]_Book_announcement:_Asian_horizons:_Giuseppe_Tucci=E2=80=99s_Buddhist,_Indian,_Himalayan_and_Central_Asian_Studies?= Message-ID: <922A97B6415.000000D1chris.clark@inbox.com> -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mkapstei at uchicago.edu Mon Apr 20 09:51:00 2015 From: mkapstei at uchicago.edu (Matthew Kapstein) Date: Mon, 20 Apr 15 09:51:00 +0000 Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_[INDOLOGY]_Book_announcement:_Asian_horizons:_Giuseppe_Tucci=E2=80=99s_Buddhist,_Indian,_Himalayan_and_Central_Asian_Studies?= In-Reply-To: <922A97B6415.000000D1chris.clark@inbox.com> Message-ID: <82C3E42590D939418C74DD76B97DDED0374FA58E@xm-mbx-04-prod.ad.uchicago.edu> Thank you for this. Is it possible to see the TOC? Matthew Kapstein Directeur d'?tudes, Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes Numata Visiting Professor of Buddhist Studies, The University of Chicago ________________________________ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From chris.clark at inbox.com Mon Apr 20 10:37:00 2015 From: chris.clark at inbox.com (Chris Clark) Date: Mon, 20 Apr 15 02:37:00 -0800 Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_[INDOLOGY]_Book_announcement:_Asian_horizons:_Giuseppe_Tucci=E2=80=99s_Buddhist,_Indian,_Himalayan_and_Central_Asian_Studies?= In-Reply-To: <82C3E42590D939418C74DD76B97DDED0374FA58E@xm-mbx-04-prod.ad.uchicago.edu> Message-ID: <92A0316B151.00000147chris.clark@inbox.com> Dear Matthew, The table of contents is provided at the end of the book announcement. Please let me know if it isn't appearing correctly. Regards, Chris --- Thank you for this. Is it possible to see the TOC? Matthew Kapstein Directeur d'?tudes, Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes Numata Visiting Professor of Buddhist Studies, The University of Chicago From jpo at uts.cc.utexas.edu Mon Apr 20 20:54:48 2015 From: jpo at uts.cc.utexas.edu (Patrick Olivelle) Date: Mon, 20 Apr 15 15:54:48 -0500 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Query Message-ID: I received this query from a graduate student, and would appreciate any responses to her question: In his recent article "Mindsets and Commentarial Conventions among Indian Buddhists" (March 2015 issue of JAAR), one of the issues Richard Nance discusses is the importance of commentarial literature as markers of historical development of ideas from Sanskrit root texts. Nance also acknowledges the problems embedded in the study of commentaries. Since I use nibandhas in my research, I would greatly appreciate suggestions for further readings of this nature that examine the relevance of commentaries and nibandha literature in pre-modern South Asia. With thanks, Patrick -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From manufrancis at gmail.com Mon Apr 20 20:52:24 2015 From: manufrancis at gmail.com (Manu Francis) Date: Mon, 20 Apr 15 22:52:24 +0200 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Indian printed books Message-ID: Dear Colleagues, For those interested in the history of printing in India, I have just found this on the www by chance: https://www.google.com/url?q=http://www.booksofasia.com/PDFs/From%2520Conversion%2520to%2520Subversion%2520-%2520250%2520years%2520of%2520the%2520printed%2520book%2520in%2520India%2520_%2520030814B.pdf&sa=U&ei=j2Q1VbOtBs32O5jtgOgL&ved=0CAQQFjAA&client=internal-uds-cse&usg=AFQjCNEp7lvmvFjo7T7xLn8MCgDjus9r3Q [[I hope the link will work]] With best wishes. -- Emmanuel Francis Charg? de recherche CNRS, Centre d'?tude de l'Inde et de l'Asie du Sud (UMR 8564, EHESS-CNRS, Paris) http://ceias.ehess.fr/ http://ceias.ehess.fr/index.php?1725 http://rcsi.hypotheses.org/ Associate member, Centre for the Study of Manuscript Culture (SFB 950, Universit?t Hamburg) http://www.manuscript-cultures.uni-hamburg.de/index_e.html https://cnrs.academia.edu/emmanuelfrancis -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rajam at earthlink.net Mon Apr 20 23:13:01 2015 From: rajam at earthlink.net (rajam) Date: Mon, 20 Apr 15 16:13:01 -0700 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Indian printed books In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Dear Manu, Thank you so much for the information!! The book you?ve found (From Conversion to Subversion: 250 years of the printed book in India) contains a wealth of information; but unfortunately, as usually done by many Indologists, leaves out South India where indeed the first European contact happened through the Portuguese and the art of printing originated for whatever reasons. I?d like to write more about it when I can, but quickly I would like to point out the following facts about first-printed books in Tamil/South India: 1. Cartilha: pp.38, Germano Galhardo, Lisbon, 11th February, 1554 ? is the first book about prayer in Tamil, but expressed in Portuguese script and printed in Lisbon. 2. Doctrina Christam en Lingua Tamul, Colligio do Saluador, Quilon, 20 February, 1577. 3. Doctrina Christam, Collegio da madre de Deos, Cochin, 14 November, 1579. You can check out the face of this book at the following links: Second Printed Book in Tamil: http://viruntu.blogspot.com/2010/09/second-printed-book-in-tamil.html http://viruntu.blogspot.com/2010/09/doctrina-christam-1579-cochin.html 4. Flos Sanctorum o Libro de las di algunos santos trasladas en lengua malabar, 1586. ++++++++++++++++ And ? there?s this first ever handwritten manuscript by Fr. Henrique Henriques who described the Tamil language in Portuguese for the sake of his missionary colleagues in 1549 (Arte da Lingua Malabar). Jeanne Hein and I have translated and provided historical references and grammatical annotations to this manuscript in a book form which was published in the Harvard Oriental Series (http://www.hup.harvard.edu/catalog.php?isbn=9780674727236&content=bios), thanks to Professor Witzel. ++++++++++++++++ Anyone interested in understanding and researching in the areas of scribing and expressing concepts should begin with these documents produced by the missionaries. Just a simple example ? Can you imagine what the earliest missionaries to South India would have done in order to make the locals to believe in ?immaculate conception?? And, how did they come up with a local translation for ?immaculate conception.? Well ? there?s more! ++++++++++++++++ Regards, V.S.Rajam > On Apr 20, 2015, at 1:52 PM, Manu Francis wrote: > > Dear Colleagues, > > For those interested in the history of printing in India, I have just found this on the www by chance: > > https://www.google.com/url?q=http://www.booksofasia.com/PDFs/From%2520Conversion%2520to%2520Subversion%2520-%2520250%2520years%2520of%2520the%2520printed%2520book%2520in%2520India%2520_%2520030814B.pdf&sa=U&ei=j2Q1VbOtBs32O5jtgOgL&ved=0CAQQFjAA&client=internal-uds-cse&usg=AFQjCNEp7lvmvFjo7T7xLn8MCgDjus9r3Q > > [[I hope the link will work]] > > With best wishes. > > -- > > Emmanuel Francis > Charg? de recherche CNRS, Centre d'?tude de l'Inde et de l'Asie du Sud (UMR 8564, EHESS-CNRS, Paris) > http://ceias.ehess.fr/ > http://ceias.ehess.fr/index.php?1725 > http://rcsi.hypotheses.org/ > Associate member, Centre for the Study of Manuscript Culture (SFB 950, Universit?t Hamburg) > http://www.manuscript-cultures.uni-hamburg.de/index_e.html > https://cnrs.academia.edu/emmanuelfrancis > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rrocher at sas.upenn.edu Tue Apr 21 02:25:48 2015 From: rrocher at sas.upenn.edu (Rosane Rocher) Date: Mon, 20 Apr 15 22:25:48 -0400 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Indian printed books In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <5535B52C.2000803@sas.upenn.edu> Thank you. Beautiful catalog of a private collection that was offered for sale en bloc, written by Graham Shaw, the now retired British expert on the history of printing in India. Does anyone know who was the collector, if the sale went through, and, if it did, who acquired this collection? Rosane Rocher On 4/20/15 4:52 PM, Manu Francis wrote: > Dear Colleagues, > > For those interested in the history of printing in India, I have just > found this on the www by chance: > > https://www.google.com/url?q=http://www.booksofasia.com/PDFs/From%2520Conversion%2520to%2520Subversion%2520-%2520250%2520years%2520of%2520the%2520printed%2520book%2520in%2520India%2520_%2520030814B.pdf&sa=U&ei=j2Q1VbOtBs32O5jtgOgL&ved=0CAQQFjAA&client=internal-uds-cse&usg=AFQjCNEp7lvmvFjo7T7xLn8MCgDjus9r3Q > > [[I hope the link will work]] > > With best wishes. > > -- > > Emmanuel Francis > Charg? de recherche CNRS, Centre d'?tude de l'Inde et de l'Asie du Sud > (UMR 8564, EHESS-CNRS, Paris) > http://ceias.ehess.fr/ > http://ceias.ehess.fr/index.php?1725 > http://rcsi.hypotheses.org/ > Associate member, Centre for the Study of Manuscript Culture (SFB 950, > Universit?t Hamburg) > http://www.manuscript-cultures.uni-hamburg.de/index_e.html > https://cnrs.academia.edu/emmanuelfrancis > > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From philipp.a.maas at gmail.com Tue Apr 21 11:21:37 2015 From: philipp.a.maas at gmail.com (Philipp Maas) Date: Tue, 21 Apr 15 13:21:37 +0200 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Query In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Dear Patrick, the two publications Oskar von Hin?ber, ?Buddhistische Kommentare aus dem alten Indien. Die Erkl?rung des Therav?da Kanons,? in: Michael Quisinsky (Hrsg.): Kommentarkulturen: die Auslegung zentraler Texte der Weltreligionen; ein vergleichender ?berblick. K?ln: B?hlau, 2007, p. 99-114. (available online at http://www.freidok.uni-freiburg.de/volltexte/6751/) and Wlater Slaje, ?Der Sanskrit-Kommentar,? in: Michael Quisinsky (Hrsg.): Kommentarkulturen: die Auslegung zentraler Texte der Weltreligionen; ein vergleichender ?berblick. K?ln: B?hlau, 2007, p. 70 -97. (available online at https://www.academia.edu/7517545/2007c_Der_Sanskrit-Kommentar_Kommentarkulturen_ ) may be of interest if the graduate student you mention reads German. With best wishes, Philipp 2015-04-20 22:54 GMT+02:00 Patrick Olivelle : > I received this query from a graduate student, and would appreciate any > responses to her question: > > In his recent article "Mindsets and Commentarial Conventions among Indian > Buddhists" (March 2015 issue of JAAR), one of the issues Richard Nance > discusses is the importance of commentarial literature as markers of > historical development of ideas from Sanskrit root texts. Nance also > acknowledges the problems embedded in the study of commentaries. Since I > use *nibandhas* in my research, I would greatly appreciate suggestions > for further readings of this nature that examine the relevance of > commentaries and *nibandha* literature in pre-modern South Asia. > > With thanks, > > Patrick > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing > committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or > unsubscribe) > -- Dr. Philipp A. Maas Universit?tsassistent Institut f?r S?dasien-, Tibet- und Buddhismuskunde Universit?t Wien Spitalgasse 2-4, Hof 2, Eingang 2.1 A-1090 Wien ?sterreich univie.academia.edu/PhilippMaas -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From klaus.karttunen at helsinki.fi Tue Apr 21 12:53:32 2015 From: klaus.karttunen at helsinki.fi (Klaus Karttunen) Date: Tue, 21 Apr 15 15:53:32 +0300 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Indian printed books In-Reply-To: <5535B52C.2000803@sas.upenn.edu> Message-ID: <8881D30C-0DA9-463D-B5EE-27979EFAA598@helsinki.fi> Dear all, I also find the collection rather fascinating. The early Goan prints are mentioned in the Preface (and Rajam?s list leaves out Garcia d?Orta ? perhaps the most fascinating among these early prints). But how was South India neglected as at the very beginning books printed at Trankebar in Tamil are presented. There is, however, one chapter in the (South) Indian printing history often forgotten (and I don?t mention this as criticism, just as interesting fact). As early as 1772 Jacob Shameer founded an Armenian printing press in Chennai and published some religious texts and school books. Best, Klaus Klaus Karttunen South Asian and Indoeuropean Studies Asian and African Studies, Department of World Cultures PL 59 (Unioninkatu 38 B) 00014 University of Helsinki, FINLAND Tel +358-(0)2941 4482418 Fax +358-(0)2941 22094 Klaus.Karttunen at helsinki.fi > On 21 Apr 2015, at 05:25, Rosane Rocher wrote: > > Thank you. Beautiful catalog of a private collection that was offered for sale en bloc, written by Graham Shaw, the now retired British expert on the history of printing in India. Does anyone know who was the collector, if the sale went through, and, if it did, who acquired this collection? > > Rosane Rocher > > On 4/20/15 4:52 PM, Manu Francis wrote: >> Dear Colleagues, >> >> For those interested in the history of printing in India, I have just found this on the www by chance: >> >> https://www.google.com/url?q=http://www.booksofasia.com/PDFs/From%2520Conversion%2520to%2520Subversion%2520-%2520250%2520years%2520of%2520the%2520printed%2520book%2520in%2520India%2520_%2520030814B.pdf&sa=U&ei=j2Q1VbOtBs32O5jtgOgL&ved=0CAQQFjAA&client=internal-uds-cse&usg=AFQjCNEp7lvmvFjo7T7xLn8MCgDjus9r3Q >> >> [[I hope the link will work]] >> >> With best wishes. >> >> -- >> >> Emmanuel Francis >> Charg? de recherche CNRS, Centre d'?tude de l'Inde et de l'Asie du Sud (UMR 8564, EHESS-CNRS, Paris) >> http://ceias.ehess.fr/ >> http://ceias.ehess.fr/index.php?1725 >> http://rcsi.hypotheses.org/ >> Associate member, Centre for the Study of Manuscript Culture (SFB 950, Universit?t Hamburg) >> http://www.manuscript-cultures.uni-hamburg.de/index_e.html >> https://cnrs.academia.edu/emmanuelfrancis >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> INDOLOGY mailing list >> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info >> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) >> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jean-luc.chevillard at univ-paris-diderot.fr Tue Apr 21 13:34:33 2015 From: jean-luc.chevillard at univ-paris-diderot.fr (Jean-Luc Chevillard) Date: Tue, 21 Apr 15 15:34:33 +0200 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Indian printed books In-Reply-To: <8881D30C-0DA9-463D-B5EE-27979EFAA598@helsinki.fi> Message-ID: <553651E9.5090102@univ-paris-diderot.fr> Dear All, while we are on this topic, and since Rosane Rocher has pointed out the fact that the Book provided by Emmanuel Francis is the catalogue of a private collection, I would very much like to know whether the calalogue of another private collection (see below) is available in digital form somewhere. A few years ago, while visiting the British Library, I had the pleasure a examining a fascinating book, in which the title page said (this is copied from my handwritten notes of that day) ************************************** CATALOGUE of the VALUABLE LIBRARY of the late Dr Arthur Coke Burnell, C.I.E. (Sold by order of the Executors) comprising Bibles & Testaments in various Languages, Early voyages and travels, Especially to the East Indies and to America; Numerous Dictionaries and Grammars; Bibliographical Publications; and a very extensive collection of Oriental and East Indian Literature. Which will be sold by Auction by Messrs. Sotheby, Wilkinson & Hodge, Auctioneers of Literary Property & works illustative of the fine arts, At their House, N? 13, Wellington Street, Strand, W.C. On Monday, 14th january, 1884, and three following days, At one o'clock precisely. May be viewed Two Days previously, and Catalogues had. Dryden Press: J. Davy and Sons, 137, Long Acre. *************************************** That copy of catalogue has a STAMP on it, which reads "India Office" "20 AUG 1914" "Library" ******************* I copied by hand enough information to fill 10 pages in a notebook, but that cannot replace an exact reproduction. (Is there a PDF on Archive.org? I would like to know) I would also be curious to know what was the fate of Burnell's book: How many people bought them? Are they now traceable? Arthur Coke Burnell (1840-1882) is certainly a fascinating character! Thanks for any pointers -- Jean-Luc Chevillard (currently in Paris) "https://univ-paris-diderot.academia.edu/JeanLucChevillard" "https://plus.google.com/u/0/113653379205101980081/posts/p/pub" "https://twitter.com/JLC1956" On 21/04/2015 14:53, Klaus Karttunen wrote: > Dear all, > I also find the collection rather fascinating. The early Goan prints are > mentioned in the Preface (and Rajam?s list leaves out Garcia d?Orta ? > perhaps the most fascinating among these early prints). But how was > South India neglected as at the very beginning books printed at > Trankebar in Tamil are presented. There is, however, one chapter in the > (South) Indian printing history often forgotten (and I don?t mention > this as criticism, just as interesting fact). As early as 1772 Jacob > Shameer founded an Armenian printing press in Chennai and published some > religious texts and school books. > > Best, > Klaus > > Klaus Karttunen > South Asian and Indoeuropean Studies > Asian and African Studies, Department of World Cultures > PL 59 (Unioninkatu 38 B) > 00014 University of Helsinki, FINLAND > Tel +358-(0)2941 4482418 > Fax +358-(0)2941 22094 > Klaus.Karttunen at helsinki.fi > > > > > > >> On 21 Apr 2015, at 05:25, Rosane Rocher > > wrote: >> >> Thank you. Beautiful catalog of a private collection that was offered >> for sale en bloc, written by Graham Shaw, the now retired British >> expert on the history of printing in India. Does anyone know who was >> the collector, if the sale went through, and, if it did, who acquired >> this collection? >> >> Rosane Rocher >> >> On 4/20/15 4:52 PM, Manu Francis wrote: >>> Dear Colleagues, >>> >>> For those interested in the history of printing in India, I have just >>> found this on the www by chance: >>> >>> https://www.google.com/url?q=http://www.booksofasia.com/PDFs/From%2520Conversion%2520to%2520Subversion%2520-%2520250%2520years%2520of%2520the%2520printed%2520book%2520in%2520India%2520_%2520030814B.pdf&sa=U&ei=j2Q1VbOtBs32O5jtgOgL&ved=0CAQQFjAA&client=internal-uds-cse&usg=AFQjCNEp7lvmvFjo7T7xLn8MCgDjus9r3Q >>> >>> [[I hope the link will work]] >>> >>> With best wishes. >>> >>> -- >>> >>> Emmanuel Francis >>> Charg? de recherche CNRS, Centre d'?tude de l'Inde et de l'Asie du >>> Sud (UMR 8564, EHESS-CNRS, Paris) >>> http://ceias.ehess.fr/ >>> http://ceias.ehess.fr/index.php?1725 >>> http://rcsi.hypotheses.org/ >>> Associate member, Centre for the Study of Manuscript Culture (SFB >>> 950, Universit?t Hamburg) >>> http://www.manuscript-cultures.uni-hamburg.de/index_e.html >>> https://cnrs.academia.edu/emmanuelfrancis >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> INDOLOGY mailing list >>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info >>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) >>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) >> >> _______________________________________________ >> INDOLOGY mailing list >> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info >> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing >> committee) >> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options >> or unsubscribe) > > > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) > From jpo at uts.cc.utexas.edu Tue Apr 21 13:57:27 2015 From: jpo at uts.cc.utexas.edu (Patrick Olivelle) Date: Tue, 21 Apr 15 08:57:27 -0500 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Indian printed books In-Reply-To: <553651E9.5090102@univ-paris-diderot.fr> Message-ID: I am not sure about Burnell's library of printed books, but his manuscript collection was acquired by the India Office Library (now part of the British Library) and they are catalogued in A. B. Keith's Catalogue of Sanskrit and Pr?krit Manuscripts in the LIbrary of the India Office, Oxford, 1935. Patrick On Apr 21, 2015, at 8:34 AM, Jean-Luc Chevillard wrote: > Dear All, > > while we are on this topic, > and since Rosane Rocher has pointed out the fact that the Book provided by Emmanuel Francis is the catalogue of a private collection, > I would very much like to know > whether the calalogue of another private collection > (see below) > is available in digital form somewhere. > > A few years ago, > while visiting the British Library, > I had the pleasure a examining a fascinating book, > in which the title page said > (this is copied from my handwritten notes of that day) > > ************************************** > > CATALOGUE > of the > VALUABLE LIBRARY > of the late > Dr Arthur Coke Burnell, C.I.E. > (Sold by order of the Executors) > comprising > Bibles & Testaments in various Languages, > Early voyages and travels, > Especially to the East Indies and to America; > Numerous Dictionaries and Grammars; > Bibliographical Publications; > and a very extensive collection of > Oriental and East Indian Literature. > > Which will be sold by Auction > by Messrs. > Sotheby, Wilkinson & Hodge, > Auctioneers of Literary Property & works illustative of the fine arts, > At their House, N? 13, Wellington Street, Strand, W.C. > On Monday, 14th january, 1884, and three following days, > At one o'clock precisely. > > May be viewed Two Days previously, and Catalogues had. > > Dryden Press: J. Davy and Sons, 137, Long Acre. > > *************************************** > > That copy of catalogue > has a STAMP on it, which reads > "India Office" > "20 AUG 1914" > "Library" > > ******************* > > I copied by hand enough information to fill 10 pages > in a notebook, but that cannot replace an exact reproduction. > (Is there a PDF on Archive.org? I would like to know) > > I would also be curious to know what was the fate of Burnell's book: > How many people bought them? Are they now traceable? > > Arthur Coke Burnell (1840-1882) is certainly a fascinating character! > > Thanks for any pointers > > -- Jean-Luc Chevillard (currently in Paris) > > > "https://univ-paris-diderot.academia.edu/JeanLucChevillard" > > "https://plus.google.com/u/0/113653379205101980081/posts/p/pub" > > "https://twitter.com/JLC1956" > > > > On 21/04/2015 14:53, Klaus Karttunen wrote: >> Dear all, >> I also find the collection rather fascinating. The early Goan prints are >> mentioned in the Preface (and Rajam?s list leaves out Garcia d?Orta ? >> perhaps the most fascinating among these early prints). But how was >> South India neglected as at the very beginning books printed at >> Trankebar in Tamil are presented. There is, however, one chapter in the >> (South) Indian printing history often forgotten (and I don?t mention >> this as criticism, just as interesting fact). As early as 1772 Jacob >> Shameer founded an Armenian printing press in Chennai and published some >> religious texts and school books. >> >> Best, >> Klaus >> >> Klaus Karttunen >> South Asian and Indoeuropean Studies >> Asian and African Studies, Department of World Cultures >> PL 59 (Unioninkatu 38 B) >> 00014 University of Helsinki, FINLAND >> Tel +358-(0)2941 4482418 >> Fax +358-(0)2941 22094 >> Klaus.Karttunen at helsinki.fi >> >> >> >> >> >> >>> On 21 Apr 2015, at 05:25, Rosane Rocher >> > wrote: >>> >>> Thank you. Beautiful catalog of a private collection that was offered >>> for sale en bloc, written by Graham Shaw, the now retired British >>> expert on the history of printing in India. Does anyone know who was >>> the collector, if the sale went through, and, if it did, who acquired >>> this collection? >>> >>> Rosane Rocher >>> >>> On 4/20/15 4:52 PM, Manu Francis wrote: >>>> Dear Colleagues, >>>> >>>> For those interested in the history of printing in India, I have just >>>> found this on the www by chance: >>>> >>>> https://www.google.com/url?q=http://www.booksofasia.com/PDFs/From%2520Conversion%2520to%2520Subversion%2520-%2520250%2520years%2520of%2520the%2520printed%2520book%2520in%2520India%2520_%2520030814B.pdf&sa=U&ei=j2Q1VbOtBs32O5jtgOgL&ved=0CAQQFjAA&client=internal-uds-cse&usg=AFQjCNEp7lvmvFjo7T7xLn8MCgDjus9r3Q >>>> >>>> [[I hope the link will work]] >>>> >>>> With best wishes. >>>> >>>> -- >>>> >>>> Emmanuel Francis >>>> Charg? de recherche CNRS, Centre d'?tude de l'Inde et de l'Asie du >>>> Sud (UMR 8564, EHESS-CNRS, Paris) >>>> http://ceias.ehess.fr/ >>>> http://ceias.ehess.fr/index.php?1725 >>>> http://rcsi.hypotheses.org/ >>>> Associate member, Centre for the Study of Manuscript Culture (SFB >>>> 950, Universit?t Hamburg) >>>> http://www.manuscript-cultures.uni-hamburg.de/index_e.html >>>> https://cnrs.academia.edu/emmanuelfrancis >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> INDOLOGY mailing list >>>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info >>>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) >>>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> INDOLOGY mailing list >>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info >>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing >>> committee) >>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options >>> or unsubscribe) >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> INDOLOGY mailing list >> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info >> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) >> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) >> > > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) From jean-luc.chevillard at univ-paris-diderot.fr Tue Apr 21 14:12:00 2015 From: jean-luc.chevillard at univ-paris-diderot.fr (Jean-Luc Chevillard) Date: Tue, 21 Apr 15 16:12:00 +0200 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Indian printed books In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <55365AB0.1050405@univ-paris-diderot.fr> Dear Patrick, I know from direct experience that item 1324 in the catalogue (which is a MS of the Ku?untokai) is indeed part of the India Office Library, where Eva Wilden was able to consult it (and I also saw it with my own eyes), but how can one be sure that the India Office Library bought the TOTALITY of his MSS (including the Tamil ones). Is it stated in Keith's catalogue? I am not sure that the auction that took place on 14-16th january 1884 was a "sale en bloc" -- Jean-Luc "https://univ-paris-diderot.academia.edu/JeanLucChevillard" "https://plus.google.com/u/0/113653379205101980081/posts/p/pub" "https://twitter.com/JLC1956" On 21/04/2015 15:57, Patrick Olivelle wrote: > I am not sure about Burnell's library of printed books, but his manuscript collection was acquired by the India Office Library (now part of the British Library) and they are catalogued in A. B. Keith's Catalogue of Sanskrit and Pr?krit Manuscripts in the LIbrary of the India Office, Oxford, 1935. > > Patrick > > > > On Apr 21, 2015, at 8:34 AM, Jean-Luc Chevillard wrote: > >> Dear All, >> >> while we are on this topic, >> and since Rosane Rocher has pointed out the fact that the Book provided by Emmanuel Francis is the catalogue of a private collection, >> I would very much like to know >> whether the calalogue of another private collection >> (see below) >> is available in digital form somewhere. >> >> A few years ago, >> while visiting the British Library, >> I had the pleasure a examining a fascinating book, >> in which the title page said >> (this is copied from my handwritten notes of that day) >> >> ************************************** >> >> CATALOGUE >> of the >> VALUABLE LIBRARY >> of the late >> Dr Arthur Coke Burnell, C.I.E. >> (Sold by order of the Executors) >> comprising >> Bibles & Testaments in various Languages, >> Early voyages and travels, >> Especially to the East Indies and to America; >> Numerous Dictionaries and Grammars; >> Bibliographical Publications; >> and a very extensive collection of >> Oriental and East Indian Literature. >> >> Which will be sold by Auction >> by Messrs. >> Sotheby, Wilkinson & Hodge, >> Auctioneers of Literary Property & works illustative of the fine arts, >> At their House, N? 13, Wellington Street, Strand, W.C. >> On Monday, 14th january, 1884, and three following days, >> At one o'clock precisely. >> >> May be viewed Two Days previously, and Catalogues had. >> >> Dryden Press: J. Davy and Sons, 137, Long Acre. >> >> *************************************** >> >> That copy of catalogue >> has a STAMP on it, which reads >> "India Office" >> "20 AUG 1914" >> "Library" >> >> ******************* >> >> I copied by hand enough information to fill 10 pages >> in a notebook, but that cannot replace an exact reproduction. >> (Is there a PDF on Archive.org? I would like to know) >> >> I would also be curious to know what was the fate of Burnell's book: >> How many people bought them? Are they now traceable? >> >> Arthur Coke Burnell (1840-1882) is certainly a fascinating character! >> >> Thanks for any pointers >> >> -- Jean-Luc Chevillard (currently in Paris) >> >> >> "https://univ-paris-diderot.academia.edu/JeanLucChevillard" >> >> "https://plus.google.com/u/0/113653379205101980081/posts/p/pub" >> >> "https://twitter.com/JLC1956" >> >> >> >> On 21/04/2015 14:53, Klaus Karttunen wrote: >>> Dear all, >>> I also find the collection rather fascinating. The early Goan prints are >>> mentioned in the Preface (and Rajam?s list leaves out Garcia d?Orta ? >>> perhaps the most fascinating among these early prints). But how was >>> South India neglected as at the very beginning books printed at >>> Trankebar in Tamil are presented. There is, however, one chapter in the >>> (South) Indian printing history often forgotten (and I don?t mention >>> this as criticism, just as interesting fact). As early as 1772 Jacob >>> Shameer founded an Armenian printing press in Chennai and published some >>> religious texts and school books. >>> >>> Best, >>> Klaus >>> >>> Klaus Karttunen >>> South Asian and Indoeuropean Studies >>> Asian and African Studies, Department of World Cultures >>> PL 59 (Unioninkatu 38 B) >>> 00014 University of Helsinki, FINLAND >>> Tel +358-(0)2941 4482418 >>> Fax +358-(0)2941 22094 >>> Klaus.Karttunen at helsinki.fi >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>> On 21 Apr 2015, at 05:25, Rosane Rocher >>> > wrote: >>>> >>>> Thank you. Beautiful catalog of a private collection that was offered >>>> for sale en bloc, written by Graham Shaw, the now retired British >>>> expert on the history of printing in India. Does anyone know who was >>>> the collector, if the sale went through, and, if it did, who acquired >>>> this collection? >>>> >>>> Rosane Rocher >>>> >>>> On 4/20/15 4:52 PM, Manu Francis wrote: >>>>> Dear Colleagues, >>>>> >>>>> For those interested in the history of printing in India, I have just >>>>> found this on the www by chance: >>>>> >>>>> https://www.google.com/url?q=http://www.booksofasia.com/PDFs/From%2520Conversion%2520to%2520Subversion%2520-%2520250%2520years%2520of%2520the%2520printed%2520book%2520in%2520India%2520_%2520030814B.pdf&sa=U&ei=j2Q1VbOtBs32O5jtgOgL&ved=0CAQQFjAA&client=internal-uds-cse&usg=AFQjCNEp7lvmvFjo7T7xLn8MCgDjus9r3Q >>>>> >>>>> [[I hope the link will work]] >>>>> >>>>> With best wishes. >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> >>>>> Emmanuel Francis >>>>> Charg? de recherche CNRS, Centre d'?tude de l'Inde et de l'Asie du >>>>> Sud (UMR 8564, EHESS-CNRS, Paris) >>>>> http://ceias.ehess.fr/ >>>>> http://ceias.ehess.fr/index.php?1725 >>>>> http://rcsi.hypotheses.org/ >>>>> Associate member, Centre for the Study of Manuscript Culture (SFB >>>>> 950, Universit?t Hamburg) >>>>> http://www.manuscript-cultures.uni-hamburg.de/index_e.html >>>>> https://cnrs.academia.edu/emmanuelfrancis >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> INDOLOGY mailing list >>>>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info >>>>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) >>>>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> INDOLOGY mailing list >>>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info >>>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing >>>> committee) >>>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options >>>> or unsubscribe) >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> INDOLOGY mailing list >>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info >>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) >>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> INDOLOGY mailing list >> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info >> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) >> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) > > From franco at uni-leipzig.de Tue Apr 21 14:35:36 2015 From: franco at uni-leipzig.de (Eli Franco) Date: Tue, 21 Apr 15 16:35:36 +0200 Subject: [INDOLOGY] cArvAka/lokAyata In-Reply-To: <82C3E42590D939418C74DD76B97DDED0374F9AFD@xm-mbx-04-prod.ad.uchicago.edu> Message-ID: <20150421163536.Horde.IHQQALusD2dLAz6pRMT57A8@mail.uni-leipzig.de> Hi Matthew, There a very few inscriptions which mention Lokayata. See: B.A.Saletore, "Historical notices of the Lokayatas", ABORI 23, 1942, 386-397. As I recall, no specific teachers were mentioned. Sorry for this late response; I was travelling. Best wishes, Eli Zitat von Matthew Kapstein : > Dear colleagues, > > Might any of you be aware of positive epigraphical evidence of > teachers designated > as cArvAka or lokAyata. I am of course aware of the literary > references, but am > here solely concerned with whether or not we find any epigraphical support. > > with thanks in advance, > Matthew > > Matthew Kapstein > Directeur d'?tudes, > Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes > > Numata Visiting Professor of Buddhist Studies, > The University of Chicago > ________________________________ -- Prof. Dr. Eli Franco Institut f?r Indologie und Zentralasienwissenschaften Schillerstr. 6 04109 Leipzig Ph. +49 341 9737 121, 9737 120 (dept. office) Fax +49 341 9737 148 From jpo at uts.cc.utexas.edu Tue Apr 21 15:04:47 2015 From: jpo at uts.cc.utexas.edu (Patrick Olivelle) Date: Tue, 21 Apr 15 10:04:47 -0500 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Indian printed books In-Reply-To: <55365AB0.1050405@univ-paris-diderot.fr> Message-ID: <6870FA9E-B644-4430-9398-5787FEEC2972@uts.cc.utexas.edu> Jean-Luc: not I do not know about the Tamil mss. Keith apparently did just the Sanskrit and Pr?k?t ones. Patrick On Apr 21, 2015, at 9:12 AM, Jean-Luc Chevillard wrote: > Dear Patrick, > > I know from direct experience that item 1324 in the catalogue > (which is a MS of the Ku?untokai) is indeed part of the India Office Library, where Eva Wilden was able to consult it > (and I also saw it with my own eyes), > but how can one be sure that the India Office Library bought the TOTALITY of his MSS (including the Tamil ones). > > Is it stated in Keith's catalogue? > > I am not sure that the auction that took place on 14-16th january 1884 > was a "sale en bloc" > > -- Jean-Luc > > > "https://univ-paris-diderot.academia.edu/JeanLucChevillard" > > "https://plus.google.com/u/0/113653379205101980081/posts/p/pub" > > "https://twitter.com/JLC1956" > > > > On 21/04/2015 15:57, Patrick Olivelle wrote: >> I am not sure about Burnell's library of printed books, but his manuscript collection was acquired by the India Office Library (now part of the British Library) and they are catalogued in A. B. Keith's Catalogue of Sanskrit and Pr?krit Manuscripts in the LIbrary of the India Office, Oxford, 1935. >> >> Patrick >> >> >> >> On Apr 21, 2015, at 8:34 AM, Jean-Luc Chevillard wrote: >> >>> Dear All, >>> >>> while we are on this topic, >>> and since Rosane Rocher has pointed out the fact that the Book provided by Emmanuel Francis is the catalogue of a private collection, >>> I would very much like to know >>> whether the calalogue of another private collection >>> (see below) >>> is available in digital form somewhere. >>> >>> A few years ago, >>> while visiting the British Library, >>> I had the pleasure a examining a fascinating book, >>> in which the title page said >>> (this is copied from my handwritten notes of that day) >>> >>> ************************************** >>> >>> CATALOGUE >>> of the >>> VALUABLE LIBRARY >>> of the late >>> Dr Arthur Coke Burnell, C.I.E. >>> (Sold by order of the Executors) >>> comprising >>> Bibles & Testaments in various Languages, >>> Early voyages and travels, >>> Especially to the East Indies and to America; >>> Numerous Dictionaries and Grammars; >>> Bibliographical Publications; >>> and a very extensive collection of >>> Oriental and East Indian Literature. >>> >>> Which will be sold by Auction >>> by Messrs. >>> Sotheby, Wilkinson & Hodge, >>> Auctioneers of Literary Property & works illustative of the fine arts, >>> At their House, N? 13, Wellington Street, Strand, W.C. >>> On Monday, 14th january, 1884, and three following days, >>> At one o'clock precisely. >>> >>> May be viewed Two Days previously, and Catalogues had. >>> >>> Dryden Press: J. Davy and Sons, 137, Long Acre. >>> >>> *************************************** >>> >>> That copy of catalogue >>> has a STAMP on it, which reads >>> "India Office" >>> "20 AUG 1914" >>> "Library" >>> >>> ******************* >>> >>> I copied by hand enough information to fill 10 pages >>> in a notebook, but that cannot replace an exact reproduction. >>> (Is there a PDF on Archive.org? I would like to know) >>> >>> I would also be curious to know what was the fate of Burnell's book: >>> How many people bought them? Are they now traceable? >>> >>> Arthur Coke Burnell (1840-1882) is certainly a fascinating character! >>> >>> Thanks for any pointers >>> >>> -- Jean-Luc Chevillard (currently in Paris) >>> >>> >>> "https://univ-paris-diderot.academia.edu/JeanLucChevillard" >>> >>> "https://plus.google.com/u/0/113653379205101980081/posts/p/pub" >>> >>> "https://twitter.com/JLC1956" >>> >>> >>> >>> On 21/04/2015 14:53, Klaus Karttunen wrote: >>>> Dear all, >>>> I also find the collection rather fascinating. The early Goan prints are >>>> mentioned in the Preface (and Rajam?s list leaves out Garcia d?Orta ? >>>> perhaps the most fascinating among these early prints). But how was >>>> South India neglected as at the very beginning books printed at >>>> Trankebar in Tamil are presented. There is, however, one chapter in the >>>> (South) Indian printing history often forgotten (and I don?t mention >>>> this as criticism, just as interesting fact). As early as 1772 Jacob >>>> Shameer founded an Armenian printing press in Chennai and published some >>>> religious texts and school books. >>>> >>>> Best, >>>> Klaus >>>> >>>> Klaus Karttunen >>>> South Asian and Indoeuropean Studies >>>> Asian and African Studies, Department of World Cultures >>>> PL 59 (Unioninkatu 38 B) >>>> 00014 University of Helsinki, FINLAND >>>> Tel +358-(0)2941 4482418 >>>> Fax +358-(0)2941 22094 >>>> Klaus.Karttunen at helsinki.fi >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> On 21 Apr 2015, at 05:25, Rosane Rocher >>>> > wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Thank you. Beautiful catalog of a private collection that was offered >>>>> for sale en bloc, written by Graham Shaw, the now retired British >>>>> expert on the history of printing in India. Does anyone know who was >>>>> the collector, if the sale went through, and, if it did, who acquired >>>>> this collection? >>>>> >>>>> Rosane Rocher >>>>> >>>>> On 4/20/15 4:52 PM, Manu Francis wrote: >>>>>> Dear Colleagues, >>>>>> >>>>>> For those interested in the history of printing in India, I have just >>>>>> found this on the www by chance: >>>>>> >>>>>> https://www.google.com/url?q=http://www.booksofasia.com/PDFs/From%2520Conversion%2520to%2520Subversion%2520-%2520250%2520years%2520of%2520the%2520printed%2520book%2520in%2520India%2520_%2520030814B.pdf&sa=U&ei=j2Q1VbOtBs32O5jtgOgL&ved=0CAQQFjAA&client=internal-uds-cse&usg=AFQjCNEp7lvmvFjo7T7xLn8MCgDjus9r3Q >>>>>> >>>>>> [[I hope the link will work]] >>>>>> >>>>>> With best wishes. >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> >>>>>> Emmanuel Francis >>>>>> Charg? de recherche CNRS, Centre d'?tude de l'Inde et de l'Asie du >>>>>> Sud (UMR 8564, EHESS-CNRS, Paris) >>>>>> http://ceias.ehess.fr/ >>>>>> http://ceias.ehess.fr/index.php?1725 >>>>>> http://rcsi.hypotheses.org/ >>>>>> Associate member, Centre for the Study of Manuscript Culture (SFB >>>>>> 950, Universit?t Hamburg) >>>>>> http://www.manuscript-cultures.uni-hamburg.de/index_e.html >>>>>> https://cnrs.academia.edu/emmanuelfrancis >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> INDOLOGY mailing list >>>>>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info >>>>>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) >>>>>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> INDOLOGY mailing list >>>>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info >>>>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing >>>>> committee) >>>>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options >>>>> or unsubscribe) >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> INDOLOGY mailing list >>>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info >>>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) >>>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) >>>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> INDOLOGY mailing list >>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info >>> indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) >>> http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) >> >> From upragya at fiu.edu Wed Apr 22 02:28:55 2015 From: upragya at fiu.edu (Unnata Pragya) Date: Wed, 22 Apr 15 02:28:55 +0000 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Invitation - Online Lecture Series on Jain Texts Message-ID: The Jain Studies Program at FIU welcomes you to the inauguration of the Online Lecture Series on Jain Texts This program is launched to enrich textual studies in Jainism and nurture the study of ancient languages like Sanskrit, Prakrit, Apabra?sa and other Indic languages. This will promote, rejuvenate and invigorate scholarship and research on primary sources. Scholars will present their research on a chosen Jain text through interactive video conferencing. The text chosen for this year is the ?c?r??ga S?tra. We welcome you to the inauguration of the program with an introductory lecture on the text, followed by a series of four lectures. Each lecture will be approximately 50 to 60 mins with a discussion session to follow. The sessions will be hosted on Saturdays GMT 17.00 (5 PM). The video conference is open to all. The content will also be archived on the FIU Jain Studies Program website. Schedule 9th May ? Prof. Kamal Chand Sogani & Ven. Samani Unnata Pragya (FIU): An Overview of Scholarship on ?c?r??ga S?tra 16th May ? Prof. Nalini Balbir (Sorbonne): Monastic Discipline in the ?c?r??ga S?tra 23rd May -Prof. Christopher Chapple (Loyola Marymount): Ethics of ?c?r??ga S?tra 30 May -Prof. Ellen Gough (Emory): Enlightenment and Liberation in the ?c?r??ga S?tra 6th June - Ven. Samani Chaitanya Pragya (JVBI): Concept of Violence and Nonviolence in ?c?r??ga S?tra Please join meeting by clicking on the link https://connect.fiu.edu/jainstudies/ Time: GMT 17.00 (5 PM) --- If you have never attended an Adobe Connect meeting before: Test your connection: https://connect.fiu.edu/common/help/en/support/meeting_test.htm Get a quick overview: http://www.adobe.com/products/adobeconnect.html RSVP here: https://docs.google.com/forms/d/138ucB5VYKRPkKc4gBIv__dAk7ff2iWOotyslwHtrhQs/viewform?usp=send_form Sources Archive.org http://jainlibrary.org/ Contact Us: Steven Vose - Svose at fiu.edu Samani Unnata Pragya - upragya at fiu.edu More Info : http://jainstudies.fiu.edu/ -- Thank You. Samani Unnata Pragya Instructor Department of Religious Studies Florida International University Truth Seeker -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: OnlineLectureSeries2.pdf Type: application/pdf Size: 669130 bytes Desc: not available URL: From csaba_dezso at yahoo.co.uk Wed Apr 22 07:09:07 2015 From: csaba_dezso at yahoo.co.uk (Csaba Dezso) Date: Wed, 22 Apr 15 09:09:07 +0200 Subject: =?utf-8?Q?[INDOLOGY]_Ruben_on_Raghuva=E1=B9=83=C5=9Ba?= Message-ID: <882C882F-75AC-4EBD-9CD6-6E6323F2E576@yahoo.co.uk> Dear colleagues, I should be grateful for a copy of the following article: W. Ruben, K?lid?sas Raghuva??a, der klassische indische F?rstenspiegel, Publications de l?Universit? d?Ankara, Annales de l?Universit? 1947, 139ff. Thank you in advance, Csaba Dezs? ------ Csaba Dezs?, PhD Senior Lecturer Department of Indo-European Studies E?tv?s Lor?nd University H-1088 Budapest M?zeum krt. 6-8/A. Hungary tel.: +36-1-4116500 / ext. 5368 e-mail: dezso.csaba at btk.elte.hu -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mkapstei at uchicago.edu Wed Apr 22 07:35:35 2015 From: mkapstei at uchicago.edu (Matthew Kapstein) Date: Wed, 22 Apr 15 07:35:35 +0000 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Help with ABORI Message-ID: <82C3E42590D939418C74DD76B97DDED037504DA7@xm-mbx-04-prod.ad.uchicago.edu> Dear friends, Our colleague Eli Franco has kindly sent me the following reference in response to my recent query B.A.Saletore, "Historical notices of the Lokayatas", ABORI 23, 1942, 386-397. The problem is that the JSTOR archive of the ABORI skips vol. XXIII (1942) altogether, and I therefore unable to access the article in this way. If anyone can send me a pdf, I would be most grateful. thanks in advance, Matthew Matthew Kapstein Directeur d'?tudes, Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes Numata Visiting Professor of Buddhist Studies, The University of Chicago ________________________________________ From manufrancis at gmail.com Wed Apr 22 08:47:02 2015 From: manufrancis at gmail.com (Manu Francis) Date: Wed, 22 Apr 15 10:47:02 +0200 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Help with ABORI In-Reply-To: <82C3E42590D939418C74DD76B97DDED037504DA7@xm-mbx-04-prod.ad.uchicago.edu> Message-ID: Dear Matthew, Here are some issues of the ABORI: https://indianhistorybooks3.wordpress.com/ And the issue you need is here: https://indianhistorybooks3.files.wordpress.com/2015/01/2990150058554-annals-of-the-bhandarkar-oriental-research-institute-vo-xxii-abhankar-k-v-724p-religion-theology-english-1942.pdf With best wishes. Manu Emmanuel Francis Charg? de recherche CNRS, Centre d'?tude de l'Inde et de l'Asie du Sud (UMR 8564, EHESS-CNRS, Paris) http://ceias.ehess.fr/ http://ceias.ehess.fr/index.php?1725 http://rcsi.hypotheses.org/ Associate member, Centre for the Study of Manuscript Culture (SFB 950, Universit?t Hamburg) http://www.manuscript-cultures.uni-hamburg.de/index_e.html https://cnrs.academia.edu/emmanuelfrancis 2015-04-22 9:35 GMT+02:00 Matthew Kapstein : > > Dear friends, > > Our colleague Eli Franco has kindly sent me the following reference in > response to my recent query > > B.A.Saletore, "Historical notices of the Lokayatas", ABORI 23, 1942, > 386-397. > > The problem is that the JSTOR archive of the ABORI skips vol. XXIII (1942) > altogether, and I > therefore unable to access the article in this way. > > If anyone can send me a pdf, I would be most grateful. > > thanks in advance, > Matthew > > Matthew Kapstein > Directeur d'?tudes, > Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes > > Numata Visiting Professor of Buddhist Studies, > The University of Chicago > > ________________________________________ > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing > committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or > unsubscribe) > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From nmcgover at fandm.edu Wed Apr 22 13:56:01 2015 From: nmcgover at fandm.edu (Nathan McGovern) Date: Wed, 22 Apr 15 15:56:01 +0200 Subject: [INDOLOGY] "Memories of Kings" Conference Message-ID: <5537A871.7000401@fandm.edu> Dear list members (and with apologies for cross-posting): The "Kingship and Religion in Tibet" Project at Ludwig-Maximilians-Universit?t M?nchen would like to announce a conference entitled "Memories of Kings: Kingship in the Religious Imaginings of Asia," to be held in Munich on the 22nd and 23rd of May, 2015. Invited participants will be speaking on topics related to kingship, religion, and memory in Tibet, Mongolia, China, South Asia, and Southeast Asia.For more information, go to http://www.kingship.indologie.uni-muenchen.de/conferences/index.html. Observers are welcome and there is no registration fee, but because space is limited, those who would like to observe are asked to register in advance by writing to Kingshipconference2015 at gmail.com. Best, Nathan McGovern Post-doctoral Researcher "Kingship and Religion in Tibet" Project Ludwig-Maximilians-Universit?t M?nchen -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From antonia.ruppel at cornell.edu Wed Apr 22 15:22:32 2015 From: antonia.ruppel at cornell.edu (Antonia Ruppel) Date: Wed, 22 Apr 15 16:22:32 +0100 Subject: [INDOLOGY] view/value of Western secondary qualifications (GCSE/A-Level etc) in India? Message-ID: Dear all, Does there happen to be anyone on this list who is familiar with the process by which universities/tertiary education institutions in India select their students, or more specifically: whether they take into account/how they value students taking Western qualifications such as GCSE/A-Levels, IB or Cambridge Pre-U? Is there perhaps a preference for one among those (or for one not mentioned here)? (I am asking on behalf of Sanskrit at StJames, whose Sanskrit teaching materials for GCSE and A-Level are already used by a certain number of schools in India - see e.g. http://www.dailyo.in/arts/sanskrit-language-education-moglys-gurukul-school-textbook/story/1/2940.html ) Many thanks, Antonia -- Dr. Antonia Ruppel Townsend Senior Lecturer in the Greek, Latin and Sanskrit Languages Cornell University 2014-2016: Teacher of Sanskrit and Classics St James Senior School for Boys (Ashford, Surrey (UK)) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mkapstei at uchicago.edu Wed Apr 22 18:11:57 2015 From: mkapstei at uchicago.edu (Matthew Kapstein) Date: Wed, 22 Apr 15 18:11:57 +0000 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Help with ABORI In-Reply-To: <82C3E42590D939418C74DD76B97DDED037504DA7@xm-mbx-04-prod.ad.uchicago.edu> Message-ID: <82C3E42590D939418C74DD76B97DDED037504EBD@xm-mbx-04-prod.ad.uchicago.edu> Thanks to Antonio Ferreira-Jardim and Emmanuel Francis for their quick responses. For those who require these resources as well: Here are some issues of the ABORI: https://indianhistorybooks3.wordpress.com/ And the 1942 issue missing from JSTOR: https://indianhistorybooks3.files.wordpress.com/2015/01/2990150058554-annals-of-the-bhandarkar-oriental-research-institute-vo-xxii-abhankar-k-v-724p-religion-theology-english-1942.pdf best to all, Matthew Matthew Kapstein Directeur d'?tudes, Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes Numata Visiting Professor of Buddhist Studies, The University of Chicago ________________________________________ From dr.rupalimokashi at gmail.com Wed Apr 22 18:31:38 2015 From: dr.rupalimokashi at gmail.com (Dr. Rupali Mokashi) Date: Thu, 23 Apr 15 00:01:38 +0530 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Article by Dr. Arlo Griffiths Message-ID: I am searching pdf of the article surya nagas chandras square seat and the mounted bull with two guardians that is published in Pradnyadhara. 2009. If any group member has the same please share. regards Rupali Mokashi -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jemhouben at gmail.com Wed Apr 22 23:24:32 2015 From: jemhouben at gmail.com (Jan E.M. Houben) Date: Thu, 23 Apr 15 01:24:32 +0200 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Info on Conference: Strategies of Language Variation: Transcultural Perspectives 2015 Vienna, 24-25 April 2015 Message-ID: Conference Strategies of Language Variation: Transcultural Perspectives 2015 Vienna, 24-25 April 2015 http://www.oeaw.ac.at/sociolinguistics/ Program Friday, 24th April Session I: Thematic Introduction CHAIR: Wolfgang DRESSLER 09.30?10.00 Barbara SOUKUP (Vienna) Speaker / Author Design from the perspective of synchronic linguistics 10.00?10.30 Manfred GLAUNINGER (Vienna) Semiotic aspects of linguistic heterogeneity Session II: Sanskrit CHAIR: Gianfranco TERRIBILI 11.30?12.00 Jan HOUBEN (Paris) Diglossia as reflected in the Sanskrit Grammarians 12.00?12.30 Vincent ELTSCHINGER (Vienna) Why did the Buddhists adopt Sanskrit? Session III: Iranian CHAIR: Jan HOUBEN 14.30?15.00 Chiara BARBATI (Vienna) Heterogeneity in the language of the Sogdian Diaspora communities 15.00?15.30 Gianfilippo TERRIBILI (Rome) Language variation and defensive strategies of religious identity: the case of D?nkard III and Zoroastrian Pahlavi literature Saturday, 25th April Session IV: English and Byzantine Greek CHAIR: Manfred GLAUNINGER 10.30?11.00 Herbert SCHENDL (Vienna) Medieval English code?switching 11.00?11.30 Christian GASTGEBER (Vienna) Documents of the Patriarchal Chancery: Aspects of variations relating to the addressees (audience) 11.30?12.00 Andrea CUOMO (Vienna) Greek manuscripts as a major source for the study of linguistic variation in Late Byzantium Session V: Babylonian, Turkish and Arabic CHAIR: Chiara BARBATI 14.00?14.30 Martina SCHMIDL (Vienna) The formal, the casual, the personal ? the rhetoric of Late?Babylonian letters 14.30?15.00 Claudia R?MER (Vienna) Modern Turkish texts in flux. On some side effects of the Turkish language reform 15.00?15.30 Stephan PROCH?ZKA and Ines DALLAJI (Vienna) Corpus of Tunesian Arabic *Jan E.M. HOUBEN* Directeur d??tudes Sources et histoire de la tradition sanskrite *?cole Pratique des Hautes ?tudes* *Sciences historiques et philologiques * 54, rue Saint-Jacques CS 20525 ? 75005 Paris johannes.houben at ephe.sorbonne.fr https://ephe-sorbonne.academia.edu/JanEMHouben www.ephe.fr -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dr.rupalimokashi at gmail.com Thu Apr 23 05:36:33 2015 From: dr.rupalimokashi at gmail.com (Dr. Rupali Mokashi) Date: Thu, 23 Apr 15 11:06:33 +0530 Subject: [INDOLOGY] epigraphia indica vol- 40 and Wada Inscription of Suketuvarman Message-ID: ?Is epigraphia indica vol- 40 available as pdf? I am also searching for Srinivasan, P.R., "Bhoja Suketuvarman's inscription of Saka 328 in the Prince of Wales Museum", in Journal of Indian History, vol. 57, no. 1?.This inscription is also known as Wada Inscription of Suketuvaran. It was also published by K V Ramesh. However I don't have necessary details. If any group member has the same please share. regards Rupali Mokashi -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From david_buchta at brown.edu Thu Apr 23 22:07:29 2015 From: david_buchta at brown.edu (Buchta, David) Date: Thu, 23 Apr 15 18:07:29 -0400 Subject: =?utf-8?Q?[INDOLOGY]_Sanskrit_Journal_"=C5=9Ar=C4=AB"?= Message-ID: Dear colleagues, I found a reference in the New Catalogus Catalogorum (Vol. 4, p. 87) to the K?vyakaustubha's having been "Ptd. (1) in the Skt. Journal *?r?, *Srinagar, X. 3, 4. p. 39." I know nothing about this journal. I managed to find a sparse entry for it on the Library of Congress's website ( http://lccn.loc.gov/71920458; call # AP95.M3 S7), but I can't for the life of me find it on Worldcat. Does anyone know of this journal, and of a library that might happen to hold it? Thanks, David -- David Buchta Lecturer in Sanskrit Department of Classics Brown University -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From francois.voegeli at gmail.com Fri Apr 24 08:41:56 2015 From: francois.voegeli at gmail.com (Francois Voegeli) Date: Fri, 24 Apr 15 10:41:56 +0200 Subject: [INDOLOGY] References Message-ID: <952FBA89-0819-4863-B98F-293B69F5F31E@gmail.com> Dear Members of the List, Can someone tell me where and when the following two contributions have been published: 1) Frederick M. Smith, "The Recent History of Vedic Ritual in Maharashtra" 2) Andrea Marion Pinkney, "Revealing the Vedas in 'Hinduism'" Thanks in advance. F. Voegeli From svose at sas.upenn.edu Fri Apr 24 21:54:52 2015 From: svose at sas.upenn.edu (Steven Vose) Date: Fri, 24 Apr 15 17:54:52 -0400 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Acaranga Sutra Online Lecture Series hosted by FIU Message-ID: <9A3FA43E-AA16-4835-ACB6-CC664CB84687@sas.upenn.edu> For those of you who, like me, had some trouble reading the email from Ven. Samani Unnata Pragya, the text that will kick off our Online Lecture Series hosted by the Jain Studies Program at FIU is the Acaranga Sutra. Hermann Jacobi?s English translation of the text is available in the SBE series, vol. 22 (with the Kalpa Sutra; vol. 45 has the Uttaradhyayana and Sutrakrtanga Sutras). An electronic version of that translation is available at: http://www.archive.org/stream/gainastras01aco#page/n7/mode/2up Additionally, the Ardha-Magadhi text can be accessed via the Jain e-Library in a number of editions: jainlibrary.org Looking forward to having you join us for this lecture series. The first lecture will be held May 6, GMT 17.00 (5:00PM). The series will be archived on the FIU Jain Studies Program website: jainstudies.fiu.edu Best, Steve Steven M. Vose Bhagwan Mahavir Assistant Professor of Jain Studies Director, Jain Studies Program Department of Religious Studies Florida International University 11200 SW 8th St., DM 359-A Miami, FL 33199 USA jainstudies.fiu.edu -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From emstern at verizon.net Sat Apr 25 14:47:14 2015 From: emstern at verizon.net (Elliot Stern) Date: Sat, 25 Apr 15 10:47:14 -0400 Subject: [INDOLOGY] References In-Reply-To: <952FBA89-0819-4863-B98F-293B69F5F31E@gmail.com> Message-ID: <2C6EEADA-34D3-4E8D-BD43-4BBB6E155A36@verizon.net> 1) Frederick M. Smith, "The Recent History of Vedic Ritual in Maharashtra? Studia Orientalia volume 94 (Helsinki, 2001). Now available online: in Studia Orientalia Electronica: http://ojs.tsv.fi/index.php/StOrE/article/view/43987/11041 2) Andrea Marion Pinkney, "Revealing the Vedas in 'Hinduism?? in Bryan S. Turner, Oscar Salemink, editors, Routledge Handbook of Religions in Asia (London (?), 2015). Elliot M. Stern 552 South 48th Street Philadelphia, PA 19143-2029 United States of America telephone: 215-747-6204 mobile: 267-240-8418 emstern at verizon.net > On 24 Apr 2015, at 04:41, Francois Voegeli wrote: > > Dear Members of the List, > > Can someone tell me where and when the following two contributions have been published: > > 1) Frederick M. Smith, "The Recent History of Vedic Ritual in Maharashtra" > > 2) Andrea Marion Pinkney, "Revealing the Vedas in 'Hinduism'" > > Thanks in advance. > > F. Voegeli > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From kauzeya at gmail.com Sun Apr 26 07:51:33 2015 From: kauzeya at gmail.com (Jonathan Silk) Date: Sun, 26 Apr 15 09:51:33 +0200 Subject: [INDOLOGY] to our many colleagues who are from Nepal, Message-ID: have family there, work there or are otherwise connected: I am sure I speak for each and every member of this list when I say that our thoughts and prayers are with you and your loved ones. Jonathan Silk -- J. Silk Leiden University Leiden University Institute for Area Studies, LIAS Matthias de Vrieshof 3, Room 0.05b 2311 BZ Leiden The Netherlands copies of my publications may be found at http://www.buddhismandsocialjustice.com/silk_publications.html -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From alanus1216 at yahoo.com Mon Apr 27 02:03:19 2015 From: alanus1216 at yahoo.com (Allen Thrasher) Date: Mon, 27 Apr 15 02:03:19 +0000 Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_[INDOLOGY]_Sanskrit_Journal_"=C5=9Ar=C4=AB"?= In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <861974869.5796902.1430100199123.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> The LC records looks like a totally unimproved PREMARC record, for a Marathi title, not the Srinagar journal. AllenFront Royal, VA On Thursday, April 23, 2015 6:07 PM, "Buchta, David" wrote: Dear colleagues, ?I found a reference in the New Catalogus Catalogorum (Vol. 4, p. 87) to the K?vyakaustubha's having been "Ptd. (1) in the Skt. Journal ?r?, Srinagar, X. 3, 4. p. 39." I know nothing about this journal. I managed to find a sparse entry for it on the Library of Congress's website (http://lccn.loc.gov/71920458; call # AP95.M3 S7), but I can't for the life of me find it on Worldcat. Does anyone know of this journal, and of a library that might happen to hold it? Thanks, David -- David Buchta Lecturer in Sanskrit Department of Classics Brown University _______________________________________________ INDOLOGY mailing list INDOLOGY at list.indology.info indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing committee) http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or unsubscribe) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From slaje at kabelmail.de Mon Apr 27 15:37:20 2015 From: slaje at kabelmail.de (Walter Slaje) Date: Mon, 27 Apr 15 17:37:20 +0200 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Fwd: FW: [CLUSTER-ALL] Call for Donations: Earthquake Nepal In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Circulated in compliance with the request of Professor Michaels. Kindly regarding, Walter Slaje ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Michaels, Axel Date: 2015-04-27 16:57 GMT+02:00 Subject: FW: [CLUSTER-ALL] Call for Donations: Earthquake Nepal To: Judith de Boer , Kai Michaels , Elias Michaels , "katha.michaels at gmail.com" < katha.michaels at gmail.com>, "reinhard.breuer" , " agarwala at web.de" , "anand.mishra at uni-heidelberg.de" < anand.mishra at uni-heidelberg.de>, "beckerrose at t-online.de" < beckerrose at t-online.de>, "Bichler, Lorenz" < lorenz.bichler at zo.uni-heidelberg.de>, "Trede, Melanie" < melanie.trede at zo.uni-heidelberg.de>, "Sax, William" < sax at asia-europe.uni-heidelberg.de>, Sylvia Sax < sylvia.sax at urz.uni-heidelberg.de>, "gerald.schwedler at hist.uzh.ch" < gerald.schwedler at hist.uzh.ch>, Joerg Gengnagel < joerg.gengnagel at urz.uni-heidelberg.de>, Gerard Colas , David Gellner , Elvira Graner , "Teutoburg-Apotheke at t-online.de" , Gerold Wempe , "arndtdohmen at web.de" , Dietrich Harth , Hartmut Boehme , Hartmut B?hme , Jens-Uwe Hartmann < juhartmann at lrz.uni-muenchen.de>, "Dr. H. Kreutzmann" < h.kreutzmann at fu-berlin.de>, "Dr. Jens Halfwassen" , Sievers Heiko , "Kunath, Susanne" < susanne.kunath at mlp.de>, Ulrich Luz , Claudia Althaus , Christian Bau , "BROSIUS, Dr. Jan" , "Lamers, Oliver" < lamers at asia-europe.uni-heidelberg.de>, Martin Gaenszle < martin.gaenszle at univie.ac.at>, Silke Bechler , " Henrik_Jungaberle at med.uni-heidelberg.de" < Henrik_Jungaberle at med.uni-heidelberg.de>, Corinne Flacke-Neudorfer < Corinne.Flacke at dfg.de>, Gudrun Buhnemann , Harunaga Isaacson , "h-kranz at hamburg.de" < h-kranz at hamburg.de>, "Anette frank at cl.uni-heidelberg.de" < frank at cl.uni-heidelberg.de>, "Johannes.Bronkhorst at unil.ch" < Johannes.Bronkhorst at unil.ch>, "jan at assmann.de" , Ute Huesken , Sylvia Kalich , Timothy Lubin , "karin.preisendanz at univie.ac.at" < karin.preisendanz at univie.ac.at>, "k.kohl at em.uni-frankfurt.de" < k.kohl at em.uni-frankfurt.de>, "ledderose at gw.sino.uni-heidelberg.de" < ledderose at gw.sino.uni-heidelberg.de>, "Larios at stud.uni-heidelberg.de" < Larios at stud.uni-heidelberg.de>, Nina Mirnig , "Dr. Annegret Nippa" , "Juneja, Monica" < juneja at asia-europe.uni-heidelberg.de>, Chiara Letizia < chiara_letizia at hotmail.com>, "Maissen, Thomas" < thomas.maissen at zegk.uni-heidelberg.de>, "Kurtz, Joachim" < Kurtz at asia-europe.uni-heidelberg.de>, Ulrike K?lver , "michael at stranner.ch" , " beatrice.mettler-forrer at bluewin.ch" , Burkhard Schnepel , Alexis Sanderson , "Malcolm malgreen at t-online.de" , Beatrix Busse < beatrix.busse at as.uni-heidelberg.de>, Hermann Kulke , " shulman at prism.as.huji.ac.il" , Jonathan Silk < kauzeya at gmail.com>, "sondra.hausner at anthro.ox.ac.uk" < sondra.hausner at anthro.ox.ac.uk>, Walter Slaje , Michael Witzel Cc: Nadine Plachta , Niels Gutschow < Gutschow at t-online.de>, "Brosius, Christiane" < brosius at asia-europe.uni-heidelberg.de> Dear all, During the past days, you all must have been concern about Nepal and perhaps want to know how and where to help. Here is a call for donations that we have established. Please circulate it widely. All the best, Axel & Chris SAI "Nepal Earthquake Relief Fund Heidelberg" Dear Friends and Colleagues, In response to the disastrous earthquake that struck Nepal and the neighboring countries on 25 April, we approach you with the humble request to help and support one of our initiatives. The SAI has just set up a temporary ?Nepal Earthquake Relief Fund Heidelberg? for this purpose. We appreciate if you spread the word about our initiative, if you find it convincing. What is this Relief Fund about? Based on our longtime experience in Nepal, we want to provide both instant help and help with a long-?-term perspective. Since the earthquake, there have been numerous aftershocks, and even another earthquake just a few hours ago. People across the country, in the cities and the countryside, lack medical help, there are talks about contaminated groundwater in wells, and the human and cultural aftermaths only surface now, and will over the next weeks and months. Increasingly, some help and expertise reaches the sites of disaster. Since the 1960s, the South Asia Institute has several research activities spread across different disciplines and themes, among which are earthquakes, urbanization, ritual and textual studies, and history. Our branch office, established in 1987, is based in Sanepa, Patan, a part of Kathmandu, and run by Nadine Plachta, M.A. She is one guarantee for the funds to arrive safely. All our contacts are personal. *1. Support groups in need for instant help * In this light, we realize how important it is to instantly contribute to the relief ofhuman suffering. One of our friends *Pushpa Basnet (CNN 2012 hero*), is running a children?s home called ?early Childhood Development Center? in Budhanilkantha, Kathmandu. The residential home that was being newly built for the children and teenagers, was badly damaged in the context of the earthquake and right now, the children are put in a plastic greenhouse (photo). [image: http://www.sai.uni-heidelberg.de/pics/n1.jpg] [image: http://www.sai.uni-heidelberg.de/pics/n2.jpg] left: Pushpa Basnet to the left, with the children from the home. ?ECDC is dedicated to helping the children of imprisoned parents in Nepal, many of whom were living inside the jails alongside their mothers. This is no place for children and we are committed to giving them the shelter and education needed to break the cycle of crime and poverty. ECDC's Butterfly home provides these children a safe and nurturing environment where they can spread their wings to discover a brighter future.? (ECDC website) Since there are other organisations related to the support of people in need in the earthquake context, who might be in instant need of support, we appeal to your trust that we also take the liberty to donate to such recipients in case we hear of their urgent need. We will try to inform you about this, if you let us know that you would like to know. Our friends and colleagues at the site will ensure the clean and direct transfer of money. *2. Long-term reconstruction work needed* Along with the other royal palace squares in Bhaktapur and Kathmandu, Patan Darbar Square is part of UNESCO world heritage. It is a major attraction for international tourism, a crucial economic motor for the small country. But it is also a nodal point for the local cultural intangible and tangible heritage of the Kathmandu Valley?s rich and long history and religious traditions. Until today, the Patan Darbar Square is less a museum but a place for all, lived, loved and vibrant. People identify with it, it is a space where deities live(d), and humans mingle. Based on our own research experience in Kathmandu, we are also aware of the importance of tangible and intangible heritage there, not only for tourism but for the ritual, social and cultural life of the local communities. Many conversations we have had in the last hours, with friends who survived, were marked by the relief to have been saved, along with most family members, but also by the worries about the collapsed temples, the deities who are now equally homeless as the humans. This is why we want to collect money that will directly go towards the reconstruction of *Patan Darbar* Square, one of the places where the Kathmandu Valley Preservation Trust (KVPT.org) whose dedicated and professional team we know since decades is situated. Cynical as it seems but the KVPT has been majorly involved in *the preservation* *and reconstruction of many sites* that now have collapsed. ?The Kathmandu Valley Preservation Trust (KVPT) was founded in 1991 with the mission to safeguard the extraordinary and threatened architectural heritage of the Kathmandu Valley in Nepal. The negative impact of today?s development pressures poses a threat not only to individual monuments but to the future of public space and urban life in the valley at large. Over the past two decades, KVPT has saved over 50 historic buildings including temples, step-wells, monasteries, palaces, and homes, and has launched three major campaigns for preservation on an urban scale. KVPT collaborates with community groups, local and international specialists, educational institutions, and the Department of Archaeology of the Government of Nepal. Restoration and conservation operations have initiated key research and training programs, and the KVPT office in Patan Darbar Square has become a resource center for architecture and urbanism in Nepal.? (From KVPT.org) [image: http://www.sai.uni-heidelberg.de/pics/n3.jpg] [image: http://www.sai.uni-heidelberg.de/pics/n4.jpg] We can grant reliability in how the money will be used towards restoration of the dilapidated structures. Since Nepal depends to a great extent on tourism, we must make sure that this central source of income is guaranteed as fast and professionally done as possible. But we also want to make sure that the rich local social and ritual life is restored, along with the hope thereof, since this will last many years. Moreover, we want to use our regional competence to help the Nepali people and their unique heritage. And we want you to know that you can trust that the money you donate is securely invested. If you want to donate, please transfer it to Vereinigung der Freunde und F?rderer des S?dasien-?-Instituts e.V. Sparkasse Heidelberg Stichwort/title: ?Erdbeben Nepal?, or, if you want to specify your donation, add: ?child-help? or ?longterm reconstruction? IBAN: DE37 6725 0020 0001 3006 95 SWIFT-BIC: SOLADES1HDB A Spendenbescheinigung/donation receipt will be issued on request. If you let us know your email address, you will be regularly informed about our relief. Heidelberg, 27. April 2015 Manik Bajracharya, Christiane Brosius, Martin Gieselmann, Niels Gutschow, Rajan Khatiwoda, Axel Michaels, Marcus N?sser, Nadine Plachta Further information: http://www.sai.uni-heidelberg.de/spendenaufruf-nepal.php, http://www.asia-europe.uni-heidelberg.de/en/sai-nepal-fund/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... 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Name: Call_for_Donations_SAI_Nepal_Earthquake_Relief_Fund_Heidelberg.pdf Type: application/pdf Size: 462654 bytes Desc: not available URL: From dipak.d2004 at gmail.com Tue Apr 28 03:08:07 2015 From: dipak.d2004 at gmail.com (Dipak Bhattacharya) Date: Tue, 28 Apr 15 08:38:07 +0530 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Fwd: FW: [CLUSTER-ALL] Call for Donations: Earthquake Nepal In-Reply-To: Message-ID: 28.4.15 The call deserves sympathetic attention. In India, however, local organizations are collecting and arranging for despatch. In such cases our University, too, usually deducts a portion from the pay of employees and ex-employees and sends it thru the Central Government. The Central Government is active in raising fund. My own state West Bengal too is affected, so is neighboring Bihar badly. A huge task before us. Best D.B. On Mon, Apr 27, 2015 at 9:07 PM, Walter Slaje wrote: > Circulated in compliance with the request of Professor Michaels. > > Kindly regarding, > Walter Slaje > > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > From: Michaels, Axel > Date: 2015-04-27 16:57 GMT+02:00 > Subject: FW: [CLUSTER-ALL] Call for Donations: Earthquake Nepal > To: Judith de Boer , Kai Michaels , > Elias Michaels , "katha.michaels at gmail.com" < > katha.michaels at gmail.com>, "reinhard.breuer" , " > agarwala at web.de" , "anand.mishra at uni-heidelberg.de" < > anand.mishra at uni-heidelberg.de>, "beckerrose at t-online.de" < > beckerrose at t-online.de>, "Bichler, Lorenz" < > lorenz.bichler at zo.uni-heidelberg.de>, "Trede, Melanie" < > melanie.trede at zo.uni-heidelberg.de>, "Sax, William" < > sax at asia-europe.uni-heidelberg.de>, Sylvia Sax < > sylvia.sax at urz.uni-heidelberg.de>, "gerald.schwedler at hist.uzh.ch" < > gerald.schwedler at hist.uzh.ch>, Joerg Gengnagel < > joerg.gengnagel at urz.uni-heidelberg.de>, Gerard Colas , > David Gellner , Elvira Graner < > egraner at gmx.de>, "Teutoburg-Apotheke at t-online.de" < > Teutoburg-Apotheke at t-online.de>, Gerold Wempe , > "arndtdohmen at web.de" , Dietrich Harth < > harthdiet at aol.com>, Hartmut Boehme , Hartmut B?hme > , Jens-Uwe Hartmann < > juhartmann at lrz.uni-muenchen.de>, "Dr. H. Kreutzmann" < > h.kreutzmann at fu-berlin.de>, "Dr. Jens Halfwassen" , > Sievers Heiko , "Kunath, Susanne" < > susanne.kunath at mlp.de>, Ulrich Luz , Claudia > Althaus , Christian Bau , > "BROSIUS, Dr. Jan" , "Lamers, Oliver" < > lamers at asia-europe.uni-heidelberg.de>, Martin Gaenszle < > martin.gaenszle at univie.ac.at>, Silke Bechler , " > Henrik_Jungaberle at med.uni-heidelberg.de" < > Henrik_Jungaberle at med.uni-heidelberg.de>, Corinne Flacke-Neudorfer < > Corinne.Flacke at dfg.de>, Gudrun Buhnemann , > Harunaga Isaacson , "h-kranz at hamburg.de" > , "Anette frank at cl.uni-heidelberg.de" < > frank at cl.uni-heidelberg.de>, "Johannes.Bronkhorst at unil.ch" < > Johannes.Bronkhorst at unil.ch>, "jan at assmann.de" , Ute > Huesken , Sylvia Kalich , > Timothy Lubin , "karin.preisendanz at univie.ac.at" < > karin.preisendanz at univie.ac.at>, "k.kohl at em.uni-frankfurt.de" < > k.kohl at em.uni-frankfurt.de>, "ledderose at gw.sino.uni-heidelberg.de" < > ledderose at gw.sino.uni-heidelberg.de>, "Larios at stud.uni-heidelberg.de" < > Larios at stud.uni-heidelberg.de>, Nina Mirnig , > "Dr. Annegret Nippa" , "Juneja, Monica" < > juneja at asia-europe.uni-heidelberg.de>, Chiara Letizia < > chiara_letizia at hotmail.com>, "Maissen, Thomas" < > thomas.maissen at zegk.uni-heidelberg.de>, "Kurtz, Joachim" < > Kurtz at asia-europe.uni-heidelberg.de>, Ulrike K?lver , > "michael at stranner.ch" , " > beatrice.mettler-forrer at bluewin.ch" , > Burkhard Schnepel , Alexis > Sanderson , "Malcolm > malgreen at t-online.de" , Beatrix Busse < > beatrix.busse at as.uni-heidelberg.de>, Hermann Kulke , > "shulman at prism.as.huji.ac.il" , Jonathan > Silk , "sondra.hausner at anthro.ox.ac.uk" < > sondra.hausner at anthro.ox.ac.uk>, Walter Slaje , > Michael Witzel > Cc: Nadine Plachta , Niels Gutschow < > Gutschow at t-online.de>, "Brosius, Christiane" < > brosius at asia-europe.uni-heidelberg.de> > > > Dear all, > > During the past days, you all must have been concern about Nepal and > perhaps want to know how and where to help. Here is a call for donations > that we have established. Please circulate it widely. > > All the best, > Axel & Chris > > SAI "Nepal Earthquake Relief Fund Heidelberg" > > > Dear Friends and Colleagues, > > In response to the disastrous earthquake that struck Nepal and the > neighboring countries on 25 April, we approach you with the humble request > to help and support one of our initiatives. The SAI has just set up a > temporary ?Nepal Earthquake Relief Fund Heidelberg? for this purpose. We > appreciate if you spread the word about our initiative, if you find it > convincing. > > What is this Relief Fund about? > > Based on our longtime experience in Nepal, we want to provide both instant > help and help with a long-?-term perspective. > > Since the earthquake, there have been numerous aftershocks, and even > another earthquake just a few hours ago. People across the country, in the > cities and the countryside, lack medical help, there are talks about > contaminated groundwater in wells, and the human and cultural aftermaths > only surface now, and will over the next weeks and months. Increasingly, > some help and expertise reaches the sites of disaster. > > Since the 1960s, the South Asia Institute has several research activities > spread across different disciplines and themes, among which are > earthquakes, urbanization, ritual and textual studies, and history. Our > branch office, established in 1987, is based in Sanepa, Patan, a part of > Kathmandu, and run by Nadine Plachta, M.A. She is one guarantee for the > funds to arrive safely. All our contacts are personal. > > *1. Support groups in need for instant help * > > In this light, we realize how important it is to instantly contribute to > the relief ofhuman suffering. One of our friends *Pushpa Basnet (CNN 2012 > hero*), is running a children?s home called ?early Childhood Development > Center? in Budhanilkantha, Kathmandu. The residential home that was being > newly built for the children and teenagers, was badly damaged in the > context of the earthquake and right now, the children are put in a plastic > greenhouse (photo). > > > > [image: http://www.sai.uni-heidelberg.de/pics/n1.jpg] > > > > [image: http://www.sai.uni-heidelberg.de/pics/n2.jpg] > > left: Pushpa Basnet to the left, with the children from the home. > > ?ECDC is dedicated to helping the children of imprisoned parents in Nepal, > many of whom were living inside the jails alongside their mothers. This > is no place for children and we are committed to giving them the shelter > and education needed to break the cycle of crime and poverty. ECDC's > Butterfly home provides these children a safe and nurturing environment > where they can spread their wings to discover a brighter future.? (ECDC > website) > > Since there are other organisations related to the support of people in > need in the earthquake context, who might be in instant need of support, we > appeal to your trust that we also take the liberty to donate to such > recipients in case we hear of their urgent need. We will try to inform you > about this, if you let us know that you would like to know. Our friends and > colleagues at the site will ensure the clean and direct transfer of money. > > *2. Long-term reconstruction work needed* > > Along with the other royal palace squares in Bhaktapur and Kathmandu, > Patan Darbar Square is part of UNESCO world heritage. It is a major > attraction for international tourism, a crucial economic motor for the > small country. But it is also a nodal point for the local cultural > intangible and tangible heritage of the Kathmandu Valley?s rich and long > history and religious traditions. Until today, the Patan Darbar Square is > less a museum but a place for all, lived, loved and vibrant. People > identify with it, it is a space where deities live(d), and humans mingle. > > Based on our own research experience in Kathmandu, we are also aware of > the importance of tangible and intangible heritage there, not only for > tourism but for the ritual, social and cultural life of the local > communities. Many conversations we have had in the last hours, with friends > who survived, were marked by the relief to have been saved, along with most > family members, but also by the worries about the collapsed temples, the > deities who are now equally homeless as the humans. > > This is why we want to collect money that will directly go towards the > reconstruction of *Patan Darbar* Square, one of the places where the > Kathmandu Valley Preservation Trust (KVPT.org) whose dedicated and > professional team we know since decades is situated. > > Cynical as it seems but the KVPT has been majorly involved in *the > preservation* *and reconstruction of many sites* that now have collapsed. > > ?The Kathmandu Valley Preservation Trust (KVPT) was founded in 1991 with > the mission to safeguard the extraordinary and threatened architectural > heritage of the Kathmandu Valley in Nepal. The negative impact of today?s > development pressures poses a threat not only to individual monuments but > to the future of public space and urban life in the valley at large. > > Over the past two decades, KVPT has saved over 50 historic buildings > including temples, step-wells, monasteries, palaces, and homes, and has > launched three major campaigns for preservation on an urban scale. KVPT > collaborates with community groups, local and international specialists, > educational institutions, and the Department of Archaeology of the > Government of Nepal. Restoration and conservation operations have initiated > key research and training programs, and the KVPT office in Patan Darbar > Square has become a resource center for architecture and urbanism in > Nepal.? (From KVPT.org) > > [image: http://www.sai.uni-heidelberg.de/pics/n3.jpg] > > > > [image: http://www.sai.uni-heidelberg.de/pics/n4.jpg] > > We can grant reliability in how the money will be used towards restoration > of the dilapidated structures. Since Nepal depends to a great extent on > tourism, we must make sure that this central source of income is guaranteed > as fast and professionally done as possible. But we also want to make sure > that the rich local social and ritual life is restored, along with the hope > thereof, since this will last many years. Moreover, we want to use our > regional competence to help the Nepali people and their unique heritage. > And we want you to know that you can trust that the money you donate is > securely invested. > > If you want to donate, please transfer it to > > Vereinigung der Freunde und F?rderer des S?dasien-?-Instituts e.V. > Sparkasse Heidelberg > Stichwort/title: ?Erdbeben Nepal?, or, if you want to specify your > donation, add: ?child-help? or ?longterm reconstruction? > IBAN: DE37 6725 0020 0001 3006 95 > SWIFT-BIC: SOLADES1HDB > > A Spendenbescheinigung/donation receipt will be issued on request. If you > let us know your email address, you will be regularly informed about our > relief. > > Heidelberg, 27. April 2015 > > Manik Bajracharya, Christiane Brosius, Martin Gieselmann, Niels Gutschow, > Rajan Khatiwoda, Axel Michaels, Marcus N?sser, Nadine Plachta > > Further information: > http://www.sai.uni-heidelberg.de/spendenaufruf-nepal.php, > http://www.asia-europe.uni-heidelberg.de/en/sai-nepal-fund/ > > > > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > indology-owner at list.indology.info (messages to the list's managing > committee) > http://listinfo.indology.info (where you can change your list options or > unsubscribe) > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image008.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 7268 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image002.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 9953 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image006.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 9136 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image004.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 12917 bytes Desc: not available URL: From soni at staff.uni-marburg.de Tue Apr 28 06:36:17 2015 From: soni at staff.uni-marburg.de (soni at staff.uni-marburg.de) Date: Tue, 28 Apr 15 08:36:17 +0200 Subject: [INDOLOGY] World Sanskrit Conference in Bangkok Message-ID: <20150428083617.Horde.7lTfrarKsqF0Kvxtu8Htbg1@home.staff.uni-marburg.de> Dear Friends and Colleagues, In case you have not seen them, may I draw your attention to the Third Announcement and Attendance Detail Form ? Our colleagues in Bangkok have just announced them together with the academic programme. Please see the links here: http://www.sanskrit-silpakorn.org Please note that the Attendance Form now requires our passport details, etc. In case you have any questions concerning the organisation in Bangkok please write to the Secretariat there at the mail address in the Cc. Looking forward to seeing you there. With best wishes and thanks to our colleagues in Bangkok, Jay Soni Secretary General of the IASS -- From mkapstei at uchicago.edu Tue Apr 28 08:04:36 2015 From: mkapstei at uchicago.edu (Matthew Kapstein) Date: Tue, 28 Apr 15 08:04:36 +0000 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Earthquake Nepal Message-ID: <82C3E42590D939418C74DD76B97DDED037505AEF@xm-mbx-04-prod.ad.uchicago.edu> Dear friends, The Rubin Museum of Art, New York, has compiled a useful page listing links to NGOs, Charities and Relief Organizations active in Nepal, and reputed for their high levels of service. Their individual sites provide information regarding their knowledge of current circumstances, the needs of the moment, and the manner in which contributions may be made: http://rubinmuseum.org/page/nepal-quake-relief Matthew Kapstein Directeur d'?tudes, Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes Numata Visiting Professor of Buddhist Studies, The University of Chicago ________________________________ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dr.rupalimokashi at gmail.com Tue Apr 28 14:10:39 2015 From: dr.rupalimokashi at gmail.com (Dr. Rupali Mokashi) Date: Tue, 28 Apr 15 19:40:39 +0530 Subject: [INDOLOGY] article: Noburu Karashima Message-ID: I am searching for the following article *Noboru Karashima, "New Imprecations in Tamil Inscriptions and J?ti Formation", in , Ancient to Medieval: South Indian Society in Transition, Delhi: OUP, 2009.* *Please share the article if you have the same* *regards* *Rupali Mokashi* http://rupalimokashi.wordpress.com/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dr.rupalimokashi at gmail.com Tue Apr 28 14:14:41 2015 From: dr.rupalimokashi at gmail.com (Dr. Rupali Mokashi) Date: Tue, 28 Apr 15 19:44:41 +0530 Subject: [INDOLOGY] K V Ramesh: Vala or Wada Inscription Message-ID: I an searching for the following article *Vala (or Vada) Inscription of Suketuvarman, Saka 322* Vol-40 (1973-74), No-10, pp. 51-54 and plate Please share if any member has the pdf of the same regrads Rupali MOkashi http://rupalimokashi.wordpress.com/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From andrew.ollett at gmail.com Tue Apr 28 21:17:55 2015 From: andrew.ollett at gmail.com (Andrew Ollett) Date: Tue, 28 Apr 15 17:17:55 -0400 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Spalding Professor of Eastern Religion and Ethics Message-ID: Dear list members, Please find the following information about applying for the Spalding Professorship of Eastern Religion and Ethics at the Faculty of Oriental Studies, University of Oxford, courtesy of a colleague off-list: https://www.ox.ac.uk/about/jobs/academic/index/ac18060j/ Andrew -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From hr at ivs.edu Tue Apr 28 22:57:23 2015 From: hr at ivs.edu (Howard Resnick) Date: Wed, 29 Apr 15 01:57:23 +0300 Subject: [INDOLOGY] access Message-ID: <1430261883-5572265.69356654.ft3SMvO1w027322@rs143.luxsci.com> While going through Ganguly?s translation of Virata Parva, I was suddenly unable to access the various chapters. Now when I try to access sacred-texts.com I get this message: Forbidden You do not have permission to access this document. Web Server at sacred-texts.com Help would be greatly appreciated. Howard -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jhakgirish at yahoo.com Wed Apr 29 13:33:27 2015 From: jhakgirish at yahoo.com (girish jha) Date: Wed, 29 Apr 15 13:33:27 +0000 Subject: A query Message-ID: <1107201327.565581.1430314407136.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Dear? colleagues,Could anyone? say me the complete sloka of which? I remember only the last carana [line] as follows :(perhaps it was contained in the old edition of bhartrihari's Vairagyasatakam)Mano me nirlajjam? tadapi visayebhyah sprihayati.kindest regardsGirish K. JhaUniversity ProfessorPatna UniversityPatna 800 005 INDIA -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jhakgirish at yahoo.com Wed Apr 29 17:01:10 2015 From: jhakgirish at yahoo.com (girish jha) Date: Wed, 29 Apr 15 17:01:10 +0000 Subject: A query Message-ID: <1984720411.709811.1430326870277.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Dear colleagues,I am extremely pleased and also thankful to Prof. Bindu Bhatt and Benjamin Fleming for taking trouble to satisfy my eagerness.As far as I remember there is also a different reading of this sloka.Many thanks.Kindest regardsGirish K. JhaUniv. ProfessorSanskrit,Patna UnivIndia -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From nagarajpaturi at gmail.com Wed Apr 29 18:28:30 2015 From: nagarajpaturi at gmail.com (Nagaraj Paturi) Date: Wed, 29 Apr 15 23:58:30 +0530 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Siddha <> JIvanmukta Message-ID: Downloaded an article from academia.edu, Nelson, Lance E. 1996. ?Living Liberation in Sankara and Classical Advaita: Sharing the Holy Waiting of God.? In *Living Liberation in Hindu* *Thought*, edited by Andrew O. Fort and Patricia Y. Mumme, 17?62. Albany, NY: State University of New York Press. Sharing here. -- Prof.Nagaraj Paturi Hyderabad-500044 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Nelson_1996_Living_Liberation_in_Sankara_and_Classical_Advaita.pdf Type: application/pdf Size: 2137934 bytes Desc: not available URL: From wujastyk at gmail.com Wed Apr 29 22:46:12 2015 From: wujastyk at gmail.com (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Wed, 29 Apr 15 16:46:12 -0600 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Kudos Message-ID: I have recently received several unsolicited advertisements from a new publishing industry conglomerate called Kudos . Kudos is inviting scholars to provide information about their publications (URLs, DOIs, etc.) Kudos will then provide metrics about citation, subject cross-linking, and some other added services that play into the contemporary world of impact assessment etc. I don't like impact factors. I think that a person's academic standing is best evaluated by peers who have read and understood the person's work. It's laborious and specialized, but unavoidable if one wants a serious outcome. All such processesof evaluation are flawed, but trying to semi-automate the evaluation of intellectual worth seems more obviously flawed than some enterprises. I don't like unsolicited advertisements. And, personally, I am not even slightly tempted by what Kudos is offering. To me, it looks like the wolf inviting the sheep for tea. I use Academia.edu, and I have been more than happy with their service. Others report similar satisfaction with ResearchGate, Mendeley, Zotero and other services. They don't all do quite the same thing, but they are all independent of the publishing industry (as far as I know). Just my two cents' worth. Best, Dominik Wujastyk -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From skarashima at gmail.com Thu Apr 30 00:25:44 2015 From: skarashima at gmail.com (Seishi Karashima) Date: Thu, 30 Apr 15 09:25:44 +0900 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Annual Report of the Frontier Circle, 1907-08 Message-ID: Dear colleagues, Does anyone happen to have a PDF file of the following work? "Annual Report of the Frontier Circle, 1907-08", Archaeological Survey of India 1908 Thank you very much in advance, Seishi Karashima IRIAB, Soka University, Tokyo -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From racleach at googlemail.com Thu Apr 30 07:33:05 2015 From: racleach at googlemail.com (Robert Leach) Date: Thu, 30 Apr 15 09:33:05 +0200 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Articles by J. N. Banerjea Message-ID: Dear colleagues, I'm looking to get hold of two articles by J.N. Banerjea, both published in the *Journal of the Indian Society of Oriental Art* (JISOA), namely: 'The Holy Pa?cav?ras of the V???is', in JISOA 10 (1942): 65-68. and 'Images of S?mba', in JISOA 11 (1944): 129-134. If any members of the list should have electronic copies of either of these and are willing to share them, I'd be very grateful indeed. Many thanks in advance, Robert -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From witzel at fas.harvard.edu Thu Apr 30 13:23:20 2015 From: witzel at fas.harvard.edu (Witzel, Michael) Date: Thu, 30 Apr 15 09:23:20 -0400 Subject: [INDOLOGY] New Journal: Comparative Mythology Message-ID: This may be of interest to some of you: We are happy to announce the first issue of our new journal (open access), COMPARATIVE MYTHOLOGY http://compmyth.org/journal/ It is published by the International Association for Comparative Mythology. (IACM, http://compmyth.org). Contents: http://compmyth.org/journal/index.php/cm/issue/view/1/showToc The new journal is the only one worldwide that deals, in comparative fashion, with the mythologies of all peoples and times, as in the current issue featuring Maya, Greek, Indo-European, Japanese and Indian myths. For IACM, Michael Witzel ============ > Michael Witzel > witzel at fas.harvard.edu > > Wales Prof. of Sanskrit, > Dept. of South Asian Studies, Harvard University > 1 Bow Street, > Cambridge MA 02138, USA > > phone: 1- 617 - 495 3295, fax 617 - 496 8571; > direct line: 617- 496 2990 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From witzel at fas.harvard.edu Thu Apr 30 14:52:57 2015 From: witzel at fas.harvard.edu (Witzel, Michael) Date: Thu, 30 Apr 15 10:52:57 -0400 Subject: [INDOLOGY] New Journal: Comparative Mythology Message-ID: This may be of interest to some of you: We are happy to announce the first issue of our new journal (open access), COMPARATIVE MYTHOLOGY http://compmyth.org/journal/ It is published by the International Association for Comparative Mythology. (IACM, http://compmyth.org). Contents: http://compmyth.org/journal/index.php/cm/issue/view/1/showToc The new journal is the only one worldwide that deals, in comparative fashion, with the mythologies of all peoples and times, as in the current issue featuring Maya, Greek, Indo-European, Japanese and Indian myths. For IACM, Michael Witzel ============ > Michael Witzel > witzel at fas.harvard.edu > > Wales Prof. of Sanskrit, > Dept. of South Asian Studies, Harvard University > 1 Bow Street, > Cambridge MA 02138, USA > > phone: 1- 617 - 495 3295, fax 617 - 496 8571; > direct line: 617- 496 2990 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From upragya at fiu.edu Thu Apr 30 20:20:06 2015 From: upragya at fiu.edu (Unnata Pragya) Date: Thu, 30 Apr 15 20:20:06 +0000 Subject: [INDOLOGY] May 9th -Inauguration of Online Lecture Series on Jain Texts with some modifications Message-ID: The Jain Studies Program at FIU welcomes you to the inauguration of the Online Lecture Series on Jain Texts Inauguration By Prof. Nalini Balbir This program is launched to enrich textual studies in Jainism and nurture the study of ancient languages like Sanskrit, Prakrit, Apabra?sa and other Indic languages. This will promote, rejuvenate and invigorate scholarship and research on primary sources. Scholars will present their research on a chosen Jain text through interactive video conferencing. The text chosen for this year is the ?c?r??ga S?tra. We welcome you to the inauguration of the program with an introductory lecture on the text, followed by a series of four lectures. Each lecture will be approximately 50 to 60 mins with a discussion session to follow. The sessions will be hosted on Saturdays GMT 17.00 (5 PM). The video conference is open to all. The content will also be archived on the FIU Jain Studies Program website. Schedule 9th May - Prof. Nalini Balbir inaugurate the lecture series and Ven. Samani Chaitanya Pragya (JVBI) presents on the Concept of Violence and Nonviolence in ?c?r??ga S?tra 16th May ? Prof. Nalini Balbir (Sorbonne): Monastic Discipline in the ?c?r??ga S?tra 23rd May -Prof. Christopher Chapple (Loyola Marymount): Ethics of ?c?r??ga S?tra 30 May -Prof. Ellen Gough (Emory): Enlightenment and Liberation in the ?c?r??ga S?tra 6th June - Prof. Kamal Chand Sogani & Ven. Samani Unnata Pragya (FIU): Mahavir in ?c?r??ga S?tra Please join meeting by clicking on the link https://connect.fiu.edu/jainstudies/ Time: GMT 17.00 (5 PM) --- If you have never attended an Adobe Connect meeting before: Test your connection: https://connect.fiu.edu/common/help/en/support/meeting_test.htm Get a quick overview: http://www.adobe.com/products/adobeconnect.html RSVP here: https://docs.google.com/forms/d/138ucB5VYKRPkKc4gBIv__dAk7ff2iWOotyslwHtrhQs/viewform?usp=send_form Sources Archive.org http://jainlibrary.org/ Contact Us: Steven Vose - Svose at fiu.edu Samani Unnata Pragya - upragya at fiu.edu More Info : http://jainstudies.fiu.edu/ -- Thank You. Samani Unnata Pragya Instructor Department of Religious Studies Florida International University -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: onlinelectureseries20151.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 4656393 bytes Desc: not available URL: