From Christopher.Austin at Dal.Ca Fri May 2 13:50:37 2014 From: Christopher.Austin at Dal.Ca (Christopher Austin) Date: Fri, 02 May 14 13:50:37 +0000 Subject: [INDOLOGY] CFP - Krishna and Govardhana Mountain Message-ID: <1399038643954.81243@Dal.Ca> Dear colleagues, I am gathering papers for a special issue of the Journal of Vaishnava Studies on the theme of Krishna and Govardhana Mountain. I extend my thanks in advance for forwarding the CFP to those whom you know working on this topic or who might take an interest in the theme. I am particularly keen on drawing in papers which treat the mountain's significance in: * sectarian Vaishnava traditions * renderings in kavya * plastic and performing arts * pilgrimage traditions * ritual practices * treatment in Vaishnava commentarial literature Papers should be double spaced, roughly 6000-8000 words, inclusive of notes (endnotes please, not footnotes) and references. Please submit in either Word or PDF format, along with a one-paragraph autobio statement. The deadline to submit is October 1st 2014 to christopher.austin at dal.ca. Thank you very much, Chris Dr. Christopher R. Austin Assistant Professor Dept. of Classics - Religious Studies Dalhousie University Halifax, Nova Scotia -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From arlogriffiths at hotmail.com Sat May 3 14:38:13 2014 From: arlogriffiths at hotmail.com (Arlo Griffiths) Date: Sat, 03 May 14 14:38:13 +0000 Subject: [INDOLOGY] ARASI request In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Thanks Anurupa Naik and Jason Neelis for responding to my request. Arlo Griffiths EFEO/Jakarta From: arlogriffiths at hotmail.com To: indology at list.indology.info Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2014 14:30:17 +0000 Subject: [INDOLOGY] ARASI request Dear colleagues, The scan of the Annual Report, Archaeological Survey of India, 1929-30, that I have downloaded from DLI (99999990229624) does not contain most of the plates. Would anyone who has easy access to the volume be so kind as to send me a scan or photo of plate XLI(e), which should show an inscription from Halin/Halingyi, in Burma? Thank you. Arlo Griffiths EFEO/Jakarta _______________________________________________ INDOLOGY mailing list INDOLOGY at list.indology.info http://listinfo.indology.info -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From giles.r.hooper at gmail.com Mon May 5 02:12:53 2014 From: giles.r.hooper at gmail.com (Giles Hooper) Date: Mon, 05 May 14 12:12:53 +1000 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Mark Dyczkowski contact details Message-ID: Dear Indologists I am trying to contact Mark Dyczkowski by email. I have tried through his website but got no response. If anyone has a better email address for him, please send it to me off-list. Any help would be much appreciated. Giles Hooper Sanskrit Honours candidate Dept. of Indian Sub-Continental Studies University of Sydney Australia -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From wujastyk at gmail.com Wed May 7 19:35:21 2014 From: wujastyk at gmail.com (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Wed, 07 May 14 21:35:21 +0200 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Typing IAST transliteration in Windows 8 Message-ID: I'm not a Windows user, so could someone who uses Windows 8 let me know what utility they find convenient for typing Sanskrit in IAST transliteration, in Unicode? Many thanks, Dominik -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From aprigliano at usp.br Wed May 7 19:50:33 2014 From: aprigliano at usp.br (Adriano Aprigliano) Date: Wed, 07 May 14 16:50:33 -0300 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Typing IAST transliteration in Windows 8 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: This one is fine, I have been usig it: https://sites.google.com/site/bhashaime/ Best *Prof. Dr. Adriano Aprigliano* DLCV/FFLCH Universidade de S?o Paulo 2014-05-07 16:35 GMT-03:00 Dominik Wujastyk : > I'm not a Windows user, so could someone who uses Windows 8 let me know > what utility they find convenient for typing Sanskrit in IAST > transliteration, in Unicode? > > Many thanks, > Dominik > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > http://listinfo.indology.info > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From pesch at indoger.uzh.ch Thu May 8 08:06:05 2014 From: pesch at indoger.uzh.ch (Peter Schreiner) Date: Thu, 08 May 14 10:06:05 +0200 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Narasimhapurana Message-ID: <536B3AED.5000902@indoger.uzh.ch> As a belated result of the T?bingen Purana Project a digitalized version of the Narasimhapurana is now available from the homepage of the Department of Indology at Z?rich (http://www.aoi.uzh.ch/indologie/teaching/textarchive.html); it comes with an index to the content of this Purana (as originally planned for the Purana Project and published for the Brahmapurana). The dates of the accompanying files are correct; it has been a long story, now history. Peter Schreiner -- Peter Schreiner Chemin des Boracles 94 CH-1008 Jouxtens-M?zery Tel./Fax +41-21-6350365 email: pesch at indoger.uzh.ch From wujastyk at gmail.com Thu May 8 13:21:32 2014 From: wujastyk at gmail.com (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Thu, 08 May 14 15:21:32 +0200 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Typing IAST transliteration in Windows 8 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Many thanks to Adriano Aprigliano, Gerard Huet and Herman Tull for their kind answers. They variously mentioned: - https://sites.google.com/site/bhashaime/ - http://www.thubtenrigzin.fr/fr.html - Baraha - Word shortcut keys Best, Dominik -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dr.rupalimokashi at gmail.com Thu May 8 16:06:39 2014 From: dr.rupalimokashi at gmail.com (Dr. Rupali Mokashi) Date: Thu, 08 May 14 21:36:39 +0530 Subject: [INDOLOGY] INDOLOGY Digest, Vol 16, Issue 4 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Dear Dominik you can try this http://www.learnsanskrit.org/tools/sanscript Rupali Mokashi On 08-May-2014 9:33 pm, wrote: > Send INDOLOGY mailing list submissions to > indology at list.indology.info > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > > http://list.indology.info/mailman/listinfo/indology_list.indology.info > > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > indology-request at list.indology.info > > You can reach the person managing the list at > indology-owner at list.indology.info > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of INDOLOGY digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Typing IAST transliteration in Windows 8 (Dominik Wujastyk) > 2. Re: Typing IAST transliteration in Windows 8 (Adriano Aprigliano) > 3. Narasimhapurana (Peter Schreiner) > 4. Re: Typing IAST transliteration in Windows 8 (Dominik Wujastyk) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Wed, 7 May 2014 21:35:21 +0200 > From: Dominik Wujastyk > To: Indology > Subject: [INDOLOGY] Typing IAST transliteration in Windows 8 > Message-ID: > < > CAKdt-CejbJkc1BRQb4ypq+Ms813UaHmVGV29iu9hbKynO+K+0g at mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > I'm not a Windows user, so could someone who uses Windows 8 let me know > what utility they find convenient for typing Sanskrit in IAST > transliteration, in Unicode? > > Many thanks, > Dominik > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mmdesh at umich.edu Thu May 8 22:55:58 2014 From: mmdesh at umich.edu (Madhav Deshpande) Date: Thu, 08 May 14 18:55:58 -0400 Subject: =?utf-8?Q?[INDOLOGY]_Ekada=C5=9B=C4=ABnir=E1=B9=87aya_of_M=C4=81dhav=C4=81c=C4=81rya?= Message-ID: Has anyone seen an edition or a manuscript of Ekada??nir?aya of M?dhav?c?rya (not Madhv?c?rya)? I see a reference to this work, but cannot find an edition of it. Any help is appreciated. Best, Madhav -- Madhav M. Deshpande Professor of Sanskrit and Linguistics Department of Asian Languages and Cultures 202 South Thayer Street, Suite 6111 The University of Michigan Ann Arbor, MI 48104-1608, USA -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From McComas.Taylor at anu.edu.au Fri May 9 02:07:34 2014 From: McComas.Taylor at anu.edu.au (McComas Taylor) Date: Fri, 09 May 14 02:07:34 +0000 Subject: [INDOLOGY] 'Joy of Sanskrit' first-year curriculum now available in Windows format Message-ID: <1399601253986.4145@anu.edu.au> Dear Colleagues Thanks to all those who said such kind and encouraging words about our 'Joy of Sanksrit' ePub. I am pleased to report that 'Joy of Sanskrit' is now available for Windows (with Azardi ePub reader). In response to users' suggestions, we have split the ePub into 1st and 2nd semester to reduce file size and download time. http://press.anu.edu.au/titles/anu-etext/the-joy-of-sanskrit/ Our next step is to improve interactivity so that students can record and listen to their own audios, and complete interactive quizzes within the ePub - coming soon! Any comments and suggestions welcome Yours McComas ________________________________ McComas Taylor Head, Department of South and Southeast Asian Studies, CHL, CAP The Australian National University Tel. + 61 2 6125 3179 Website: https://sites.google.com/site/mccomasanu/ Address: Baldessin Building 4.24, ANU, ACT 0200 ________________________________ Test drive our new 'Joy of Sanskrit' electronic text book. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jpo at uts.cc.utexas.edu Fri May 9 05:17:42 2014 From: jpo at uts.cc.utexas.edu (Patrick Olivelle) Date: Fri, 09 May 14 00:17:42 -0500 Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_[INDOLOGY]_Ekada=C5=9B=C4=ABnir=E1=B9=87aya_of_M=C4=81dhav=C4=81c=C4=81rya?= In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <715255AD-3741-4473-ADD4-8DFEFC274BEA@uts.cc.utexas.edu> Madhav: I am not aware of this work of M?dhava. Could it be simply a section of his K?lanir?aya? I am in Europe and cannot check this work. Patrick On May 8, 2014, at 5:55 PM, Madhav Deshpande wrote: > Has anyone seen an edition or a manuscript of Ekada??nir?aya of M?dhav?c?rya (not Madhv?c?rya)? I see a reference to this work, but cannot find an edition of it. Any help is appreciated. Best, > > Madhav > > -- > Madhav M. Deshpande > Professor of Sanskrit and Linguistics > Department of Asian Languages and Cultures > 202 South Thayer Street, Suite 6111 > The University of Michigan > Ann Arbor, MI 48104-1608, USA > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > http://listinfo.indology.info From wujastyk at gmail.com Fri May 9 10:08:29 2014 From: wujastyk at gmail.com (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Fri, 09 May 14 12:08:29 +0200 Subject: [INDOLOGY] INDOLOGY Digest, Vol 16, Issue 4 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I'm sorry, I don't have time. Oh, do you mean for typing. That's not what I'm after. I was looking for an IME for Windows 8 (and I've found one, bhashaime). Thanks, Dominik On 8 May 2014 18:06, Dr. Rupali Mokashi wrote: > Dear Dominik > you can try this > http://www.learnsanskrit.org/tools/sanscript > Rupali Mokashi > On 08-May-2014 9:33 pm, wrote: > >> Send INDOLOGY mailing list submissions to >> indology at list.indology.info >> >> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit >> >> http://list.indology.info/mailman/listinfo/indology_list.indology.info >> >> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to >> indology-request at list.indology.info >> >> You can reach the person managing the list at >> indology-owner at list.indology.info >> >> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific >> than "Re: Contents of INDOLOGY digest..." >> >> >> Today's Topics: >> >> 1. Typing IAST transliteration in Windows 8 (Dominik Wujastyk) >> 2. Re: Typing IAST transliteration in Windows 8 (Adriano Aprigliano) >> 3. Narasimhapurana (Peter Schreiner) >> 4. Re: Typing IAST transliteration in Windows 8 (Dominik Wujastyk) >> >> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> Message: 1 >> Date: Wed, 7 May 2014 21:35:21 +0200 >> From: Dominik Wujastyk >> To: Indology >> Subject: [INDOLOGY] Typing IAST transliteration in Windows 8 >> Message-ID: >> < >> CAKdt-CejbJkc1BRQb4ypq+Ms813UaHmVGV29iu9hbKynO+K+0g at mail.gmail.com> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" >> >> I'm not a Windows user, so could someone who uses Windows 8 let me know >> what utility they find convenient for typing Sanskrit in IAST >> transliteration, in Unicode? >> >> Many thanks, >> Dominik >> -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mmdesh at umich.edu Fri May 9 10:23:08 2014 From: mmdesh at umich.edu (Madhav Deshpande) Date: Fri, 09 May 14 06:23:08 -0400 Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_[INDOLOGY]=09Ekada=C5=9B=C4=ABnir=E1=B9=87aya_of_M=C4=81dhav=C4=81c=C4=81rya?= In-Reply-To: <715255AD-3741-4473-ADD4-8DFEFC274BEA@uts.cc.utexas.edu> Message-ID: Hello Patrick, Since I don't have a quote from this Ek?da??nir?aya, I cannot verify if this is the same as a section of the K?lanir?aya. Aufrecht (CC, p. 65) refers to an 8 verse Ek?da??nir?aya of M?dhava, with the alternative name M?dhavak?rik?, and says that this is listed in the Catalogue of Sanskrit Manuscripts in the Punjab University Library, Lahore, Vol. I, 1932 (p. 97). Madhav On Fri, May 9, 2014 at 1:17 AM, Patrick Olivelle wrote: > Madhav: > > I am not aware of this work of M?dhava. Could it be simply a section of > his K?lanir?aya? I am in Europe and cannot check this work. > > Patrick > > > > On May 8, 2014, at 5:55 PM, Madhav Deshpande wrote: > > > Has anyone seen an edition or a manuscript of Ekada??nir?aya of > M?dhav?c?rya (not Madhv?c?rya)? I see a reference to this work, but cannot > find an edition of it. Any help is appreciated. Best, > > > > Madhav > > > > -- > > Madhav M. Deshpande > > Professor of Sanskrit and Linguistics > > Department of Asian Languages and Cultures > > 202 South Thayer Street, Suite 6111 > > The University of Michigan > > Ann Arbor, MI 48104-1608, USA > > _______________________________________________ > > INDOLOGY mailing list > > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > > http://listinfo.indology.info > > -- Madhav M. Deshpande Professor of Sanskrit and Linguistics Department of Asian Languages and Cultures 202 South Thayer Street, Suite 6111 The University of Michigan Ann Arbor, MI 48104-1608, USA -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From pf8 at soas.ac.uk Sat May 10 19:35:20 2014 From: pf8 at soas.ac.uk (Peter Flugel) Date: Sat, 10 May 14 20:35:20 +0100 Subject: [INDOLOGY] The Jordan Lectures at SOAS Message-ID: The Jordan Lectures of the Department of the Study of Religions at SOAS will this year be delivered by *Professor Michael Witzel *(Harvard) from 12-16 May 2014 on: *Historical Comparative Mythology A New Approach, Its Predecessors and Its Critics*Details: http://www.soas.ac.uk/religions/events/jordan-lectures-in-comparative-religion/ -- Dr Peter Fl?gel Chair, Centre of Jaina Studies Department of the Study of Religions Faculty of Arts and Humanities School of Oriental and African Studies University of London Thornhaugh Street Russell Square London WC1H OXG Tel.: (+44-20) 7898 4776 E-mail: pf8 at soas.ac.uk http://www.soas.ac.uk/jainastudies -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From wujastyk at gmail.com Sun May 11 14:24:25 2014 From: wujastyk at gmail.com (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Sun, 11 May 14 16:24:25 +0200 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Woolner MSS to be digitized Message-ID: See report here: - http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/India-to-digitize-scripts/articleshow/34844112.cms -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dipak.d2004 at gmail.com Sun May 11 14:28:41 2014 From: dipak.d2004 at gmail.com (Dipak Bhattacharya) Date: Sun, 11 May 14 19:58:41 +0530 Subject: [INDOLOGY] B.B.Chaubey Message-ID: 11.5.14 Dear friends, I inform with a heavy heart that I have been just now informed by Professor N.N.Banerjee of Calcutta that my close friend and renowned Vedic scholar Professor B.B.Chaubey breathed his last yesterday. He was 74. His contributions to Indology are very well-known. Our families were very close. Mrs. Chaubey passed away long ago. Dipak Bhattacharya -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dchakra at hotmail.de Sun May 11 14:51:14 2014 From: dchakra at hotmail.de (Dr. Debabrata Chakrabarti) Date: Sun, 11 May 14 20:21:14 +0530 Subject: [INDOLOGY] AIT. Message-ID: Dear Friends,Please see the following link to read a report on Aryan Invasion Theory:http://www.sanskritimagazine.com/culture/aryan-invasion-is-a-proven-lie/ RegardsDebabrata Chakrabarti ?This body is like a musical instrument; what you hear depends upon how you play it.? ? Anandamayi Ma ?Inside every human being there exists a special heaven, whole and unbroken.? - Paracelsus -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dchakra at hotmail.de Sun May 11 15:34:15 2014 From: dchakra at hotmail.de (Dr. Debabrata Chakrabarti) Date: Sun, 11 May 14 21:04:15 +0530 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Bhumisukta! Message-ID: Liebe Freunde,kann man mir einen Link von dem Bhumisukta des Atharva Veda, wo dessen deutsche Uebersetzung zu finden ist?Mit freundlichen Gruessen!Debabrata Chakrabarti ?This body is like a musical instrument; what you hear depends upon how you play it.? ? Anandamayi Ma ?Inside every human being there exists a special heaven, whole and unbroken.? - Paracelsus -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From elena.mucciarelli at indo.uni-tuebingen.de Mon May 12 10:53:25 2014 From: elena.mucciarelli at indo.uni-tuebingen.de (Elena Mucciarelli) Date: Mon, 12 May 14 12:53:25 +0200 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Tuebingen: Summer School on Digital Humanities in Indology, 22.-27.7.2014 Message-ID: Dear members of the list, We have the pleasure to announce that the digitization of the complete first edition of the Epigraphia Carnatica at the University of T?bingen has almost finished (http://idb.ub.uni-tuebingen.de/diglit/EC). We are now working to improve the digital version thanks to the many suggestions you offered. In connection with this project and also with an envisioned project on the digitization of the Gundert legacy, the Department of Indology at T?bingen University is going to organize a workshop on digitization and encoding procedures of textual sources entitled "Paper & Pixel: International Summer School on Digital Humanities in Indology" from the 22.-27.07.2014. Please find the detailed invitation below. Best regards, PD Dr. Heike Oberlin (ne? Moser) & Dr. des. Elena Mucciarelli ------------------------------------- Dr. des. Elena Mucciarelli Research Fellow Eberhard Karls Universit?t T?bingen Asien-Orient-Institut (AOI) Abteilung f?r Indologie und Vergleichende Religionswissenschaft Gartenstr. 19 ? 72074 T?bingen +39 346 9794321 +49 (0) 176 72132481 elena.mucciarelli at indo.uni-tuebingen.de -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Programme_PaperPixel.pdf Type: application/pdf Size: 7100808 bytes Desc: not available URL: From elena.mucciarelli at indo.uni-tuebingen.de Mon May 12 11:09:02 2014 From: elena.mucciarelli at indo.uni-tuebingen.de (Elena Mucciarelli) Date: Mon, 12 May 14 13:09:02 +0200 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Tuebingen: Summer School on Digital Humanities in Indology, 22.-27.7.2014 Message-ID: <5DEDF013-9FCC-4230-9898-A8133A3652DE@indo.uni-tuebingen.de> Dear members of the list, We have the pleasure to announce that the digitization of the complete first edition of the Epigraphia Carnatica at the University of T?bingen has almost finished (http://idb.ub.uni-tuebingen.de/diglit/EC). We are now working to improve the digital version thanks to the many suggestions you offered. In connection with this project and also with an envisioned project on the digitization of the Gundert legacy, the Department of Indology at T?bingen University is going to organize a workshop on digitization and encoding procedures of textual sources entitled "Paper & Pixel: International Summer School on Digital Humanities in Indology" from the 22.-27.07.2014. Please find the detailed invitation below. Best regards, PD Dr. Heike Oberlin (ne? Moser) & Dr. des. Elena Mucciarelli -------------------------------------- Dr. des. Elena Mucciarelli Research Fellow Eberhard Karls Universit?t T?bingen Asien-Orient-Institut (AOI) Abteilung f?r Indologie und Vergleichende Religionswissenschaft Gartenstr. 19 ? 72074 T?bingen +39 346 9794321 +49 (0) 176 72132481 elena.mucciarelli at indo.uni-tuebingen.de -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: ProgrammePaperPixel.pdf Type: application/pdf Size: 957796 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dr.rupalimokashi at gmail.com Mon May 12 14:46:53 2014 From: dr.rupalimokashi at gmail.com (Dr. Rupali Mokashi) Date: Mon, 12 May 14 20:16:53 +0530 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Journal of the Bombay Historical Society, Volume 1, Issues 1-2 (1928) Message-ID: I need a pdf/e copy of the Journal of the Bombay Historical Society, Volume 1, Issues 1-2 regards Rupali Mokashi? http://rupalimokashi.wordpress.com/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From shyamr at yorku.ca Tue May 13 03:22:21 2014 From: shyamr at yorku.ca (Shyam Ranganathan) Date: Mon, 12 May 14 23:22:21 -0400 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Vedas: Divisions, Dating and Language Message-ID: <53718FED.3080805@yorku.ca> Dear Indology List members, I appreciate that this may seem a basic question. It's so basic, I don't have any fantastic references! I was hoping for references to authoritative accounts of the division of the Vedas into versions (Rg, Yajur etc.,), parts (Mantra, Brahmana etc.) and dates in English. I was also interested in linguistic accounts of the Vedas that might distinguish the earlier and later Vedas on linguistic lines. All help is most appreciated! Gratefully yours, Shyam -- Shyam Ranganathan, MA, MA, PhD Department of Philosophy Department of Social Science, South Asian Studies York University, Toronto From wujastyk at gmail.com Tue May 13 06:43:38 2014 From: wujastyk at gmail.com (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Tue, 13 May 14 08:43:38 +0200 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Vedas: Divisions, Dating and Language In-Reply-To: <53718FED.3080805@yorku.ca> Message-ID: I don't know if it will meet your needs, but there is some material on this by Witzel and by Witzel and Jamieson, at http://indology.info/papers/ DW On 13 May 2014 05:22, Shyam Ranganathan wrote: > Dear Indology List members, > > I appreciate that this may seem a basic question. It's so basic, I don't > have any fantastic references! > > I was hoping for references to authoritative accounts of the division of > the Vedas into versions (Rg, Yajur etc.,), parts (Mantra, Brahmana etc.) > and dates in English. > > I was also interested in linguistic accounts of the Vedas that might > distinguish the earlier and later Vedas on linguistic lines. > > All help is most appreciated! > > Gratefully yours, > Shyam > > > -- > Shyam Ranganathan, MA, MA, PhD > Department of Philosophy > Department of Social Science, South Asian Studies > York University, Toronto > > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > http://listinfo.indology.info > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From philipp.a.maas at gmail.com Tue May 13 09:51:39 2014 From: philipp.a.maas at gmail.com (Philipp Maas) Date: Tue, 13 May 14 11:51:39 +0200 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Help for identifying the content of a picture Message-ID: Dear Indology Members, A colleague, who is not a member of this list, would like to ask for help in identifying the mythological events and/or individual figures that are depicted on the two wood doors of which I attach a picture to this mail. Any help is highly appreciated. With many thanks in advance and best regards, Philipp Maas -- Dr. Philipp A. Maas Universit?tsassistent Institut f?r S?dasien-, Tibet- und Buddhismuskunde Universit?t Wien Spitalgasse 2-4, Hof 2, Eingang 2.1 A-1090 Wien ?sterreich univie.academia.edu/PhilippMaas -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: 2014-04-2514.06.52_copy.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 211002 bytes Desc: not available URL: From francois.voegeli at gmail.com Tue May 13 13:13:25 2014 From: francois.voegeli at gmail.com (Francois Voegeli) Date: Tue, 13 May 14 15:13:25 +0200 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Looking for book Message-ID: <90C4F905-EF72-4F74-8FB4-CBB741B29A9B@gmail.com> Dear Members of the List, Does anyone have a pdf of the "?r??uklayajurved?yam?dhyandinav?jasaneyin?? ?hnikas?travali?", published by Nir?ayas?gara Press in Var??as? in 1953 (??ka 1875), or knows where to find one. Many thanks in advance, Dr Fran?ois Voegeli Senior FNS Researcher Institut d'Arch?ologie et des Sciences de l'Antiquit? Anthropole, bureau 4018 Facult? des Lettres Universit? de Lausanne CH-1015 Lausanne -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ajit.gargeshwari at gmail.com Tue May 13 16:22:10 2014 From: ajit.gargeshwari at gmail.com (Ajit Gargeshwari) Date: Tue, 13 May 14 21:52:10 +0530 Subject: [INDOLOGY] INDOLOGY Digest, Vol 16, Issue 9 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Its available at DLI suklayajurveda-samhita., 99999990010698. vajasaneyi-madhyandin. 1921. english. vedas. 664 pgs.Suklayajurveda-samhita (1929)., 99999990003438. Wasudev. 1929. sanskrit. samhita. 577 pgs. Regards Ajit Gargeshwari ? ????? ??????? ?? ??????????? ?????? ????? ?? ? ????? ??? ?????? ?????????? ?????? ? ?????? ???????? ???????2.20?? Message: 4 > Date: Tue, 13 May 2014 15:13:25 +0200 > From: Francois > ?? > Voegeli > To: Indology List > Subject: [INDOLOGY] Looking for book > Message-ID: <90C4F905-EF72-4F74-8FB4-CBB741B29A9B at gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > Dear Members of the List, > > Does anyone have a pdf of the "?r??uklayajurved?yam?dhyandinav?jasaneyin?? > ?hnikas?travali?", published by Nir?ayas?gara Press in Var??as? in 1953 > (??ka 1875), or knows where to find one. > > Many thanks in advance, > > > Dr Fran?ois Voegeli > > Senior FNS Researcher > Institut d'Arch?ologie et des Sciences de l'Antiquit? > Anthropole, bureau 4018 > Facult? des Lettres > Universit? de Lausanne > CH-1015 Lausanne > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From gthomgt at gmail.com Tue May 13 21:23:11 2014 From: gthomgt at gmail.com (George Thompson) Date: Tue, 13 May 14 17:23:11 -0400 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Vedas: Divisions, Dating and Language In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Another good overview which is entertaining and accessible to non-Vedicists is Frits Staal's *Discovering the Vedas*, published in 2008 in an inexpensive paper edition by Penguin Books India. George Thompson On Tue, May 13, 2014 at 2:43 AM, Dominik Wujastyk wrote: > I don't know if it will meet your needs, but there is some material on > this by Witzel and by Witzel and Jamieson, at http://indology.info/papers/ > > DW > > > On 13 May 2014 05:22, Shyam Ranganathan wrote: > >> Dear Indology List members, >> >> I appreciate that this may seem a basic question. It's so basic, I don't >> have any fantastic references! >> >> I was hoping for references to authoritative accounts of the division of >> the Vedas into versions (Rg, Yajur etc.,), parts (Mantra, Brahmana etc.) >> and dates in English. >> >> I was also interested in linguistic accounts of the Vedas that might >> distinguish the earlier and later Vedas on linguistic lines. >> >> All help is most appreciated! >> >> Gratefully yours, >> Shyam >> >> >> -- >> Shyam Ranganathan, MA, MA, PhD >> Department of Philosophy >> Department of Social Science, South Asian Studies >> York University, Toronto >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> INDOLOGY mailing list >> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info >> http://listinfo.indology.info >> > > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > http://listinfo.indology.info > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From audrey.truschke at gmail.com Wed May 14 20:45:28 2014 From: audrey.truschke at gmail.com (Audrey Truschke) Date: Wed, 14 May 14 13:45:28 -0700 Subject: [INDOLOGY] [New Prize Announcement] S.S. Pirzada Dissertation Prize on Pakistan. Call for Submissions (Deadline - October 15, 2014) Message-ID: See below for the details of a new dissertation prize, open to US and EU based researchers. Audrey Truschke Mellon Postdoctoral Fellow Department of Religious Studies Stanford University e- mail | website ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: CSAS-UC Berkeley Date: Wed, May 14, 2014 at 1:03 PM Subject: [New Prize Announcement] S.S. Pirzada Dissertation Prize on Pakistan. Call for Submissions (Deadline - October 15, 2014) To: centernews at lists.berkeley.edu Please publicize as widely as possible ------------------- *S. S. Pirzada Dissertation Prize on Pakistan * *Call for Submissions* The Institute for South Asia Studies and the Berkeley Pakistan Initiative are delighted to announce the inaugural S. S. Pirzada Dissertation Prize for 2014-15. We invite submission of the best dissertation on Pakistan (or the region that is now Pakistan) in the Humanities, Social Sciences, Visual & Fine Arts, Law, and Public Health. Only dissertations submitted at an accredited North American or European Union-based University will be accepted. The amount of the award is $2,500. Dissertations submitted for consideration must have been filed between May 1, 2012, and September 1, 2014. The submission package must include the following: 1. ?O NE bound copy of the dissertation, 2. An abstract (500-1000 words), 3. ?A curriculum vitae, 4. ?A confidential letter from a member of the dissertation committee that speaks to the merits of the dissertation with respect to the current state of the field and the innovation that the work entails, 5. ?A pdf copy of the dissertation. Numbers ?1-3 should be submitted in hard copy to: Prof. Munis Faruqui Chair, S.S. Pirzada Dissertation Prize Committee Institute for South Asia Studies 10 Stephens Hall Berkeley, CA 94720 Numbers ? 4-5 should be submitted via email to Puneeta Kala (pkala at berkeley.edu) All submission materials must be received no later than *October 15, 2014*. Late submissions will not be accepted. A Prize Committee will determine the winner. In 2014-15 the Prize Committee will comprise Prof. Manan Ahmed (Columbia University), Prof.Munis Faruqui (UC Berkeley), Prof. Farooq Hamid (UC Riverside), and Prof. Saba Mahmood (UC Berkeley). Submitted dissertations will not be returned. The winner will be expected to attend an all expense paid award conferral ceremony at UC Berkeley in Spring 2015. The winner will also be expected to acknowledge the S.S. Pirzada Dissertation Prize in the event that the dissertation is published as a book. All inquiries regarding the S.S. Pirzada Dissertation Prize should be directed to: Puneeta Kala (pkala at berkeley.edu) at the Institute for South Asia Studies, UC Berkeley. ?Download flier HERE ? -- Institute for South Asia Studies University of California, Berkeley 10 Stephens Hall, Berkeley, CA 94720-2310 southasia.berkeley.edu Tel: 510-642-3608 Fax: 510-643-5793 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jdnarayan at gmail.com Thu May 15 03:56:28 2014 From: jdnarayan at gmail.com (Dn Jha) Date: Thu, 15 May 14 09:26:28 +0530 Subject: [INDOLOGY] MAnasollAsa Message-ID: Dear List, Can any one direct me to a good English translation of MAnasollAsa? Gratefully, DNJ -- -- D N Jha Professor of History (retired), University of Delhi 9, Uttaranchal Apartments 5, I.P. Extension, Delhi 110 092 Tel: + 2277 1049 Cell: 98111 43090 jdnarayan at gmail.com dnjha72 at gmail.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From H.J.H.Tieken at hum.leidenuniv.nl Thu May 15 13:20:51 2014 From: H.J.H.Tieken at hum.leidenuniv.nl (Tieken, H.J.H.) Date: Thu, 15 May 14 13:20:51 +0000 Subject: [INDOLOGY] email address M.B. Voyce Message-ID: Dear list members, I am looking for the email address of -- or any other way to contact -- M.B. Voyce, the author of, among other articles, "Some observations on the relationship between the king and the Buddhist order in Ancient India". Herman Herman Tieken University of Leiden The Netherlands website: hermantieken.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From wujastyk at gmail.com Thu May 15 17:54:30 2014 From: wujastyk at gmail.com (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Thu, 15 May 14 19:54:30 +0200 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Hitler and MLBD Message-ID: I see from the April 2014 issue of the MLBD Newsletter that MLBD is bringing out an edition of *Mein Kampf *by Adolph Hitlar (sic). It nestles incongruously between Alonso on the Mahabharata and the Black on the Upanisads. ? This was a shock! My immediate reaction was that I wish furiously to sever all links with MLBD. I have already written to Penguin Delhi, asking to withdraw my book from them because of their scandalous pulping of Doniger's book. Now MLDB is publishing "Hitlar." Has Indian publishing gone completely mad? My second reaction was, it's not wrong to publish even Hitlar's writings, because how else can interested people find out how misguided he was, and how else can historians combat his ideas. Free speech and all that. But my final conclusion is that this is indeed completely inappropriate because MLBD presents itself as an Indological publisher, and *Mein Kampf*isn't even remotely connected with serious Indology. Even participants in the "Indology under National Socialism" debate don't really need a new edition of *Kampf*, surely. I shall therefore be writing to MLBD in protest in the strongest terms about this pubication. I urge all my colleagues to do the same. If someone wants to set up a petition, I'll gladly sign it. Best, Dominik Wujastyk -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: IMG_20140515_193801.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 1164917 bytes Desc: not available URL: From mkapstei at uchicago.edu Thu May 15 18:07:29 2014 From: mkapstei at uchicago.edu (Matthew Kapstein) Date: Thu, 15 May 14 18:07:29 +0000 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Hitler and MLBD In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <82C3E42590D939418C74DD76B97DDED01AF20C2C@xm-mbx-04-prod.ad.uchicago.edu> Hi Dominik, Is this one of their own publications, or is it part of their distribution list? Pretty stupid of them either way. best, Matthew Matthew Kapstein Directeur d'?tudes, Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes Numata Visiting Professor of Buddhist Studies, The University of Chicago ________________________________________ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: IMG_20140515_193801.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 1164917 bytes Desc: not available URL: From alanus1216 at yahoo.com Thu May 15 18:58:57 2014 From: alanus1216 at yahoo.com (Allen Thrasher) Date: Thu, 15 May 14 11:58:57 -0700 Subject: [INDOLOGY] warning about data on CDs Message-ID: <1400180337.43785.YahooMailNeo@web163005.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> This article from the Atlantic, about the Library of Congress's soliciting gifts of old CDs for the sake of testing the permanence of them and their data, may be of interest for those of us who have stored things on them (images of mss, notes or drafts of our own work, etc.): Your Old CDs Aren't Just Aging; They're Actively Dying Your Old CDs Aren't Just Aging; They're Actively Dying That old Michael Jackson disc? You've probably been treating it wrong. View on www.theatlantic.com Preview by Yahoo Allen? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jknutson at hawaii.edu Thu May 15 19:26:53 2014 From: jknutson at hawaii.edu (Jesse Knutson) Date: Thu, 15 May 14 09:26:53 -1000 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Hitler and MLBD In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Thanks for sharing this Dominik. I guess this is in preparation for Modi's expected victory. Motilal has been heading downhill fast for some time--I guess now they have finally hit bottom. A petition is a great idea, but maybe one could also address the general decline in Indological titles in favor of new age crap that preceded this. Best,J On Thu, May 15, 2014 at 7:54 AM, Dominik Wujastyk wrote: > I see from the April 2014 issue of the MLBD Newsletter that MLBD is > bringing out an edition of *Mein Kampf *by Adolph Hitlar (sic). It > nestles incongruously between Alonso on the Mahabharata and the Black on > the Upanisads. > > > ? > > This was a shock! My immediate reaction was that I wish furiously to > sever all links with MLBD. I have already written to Penguin Delhi, asking > to withdraw my book from them because of their scandalous pulping of > Doniger's book. Now MLDB is publishing "Hitlar." Has Indian publishing > gone completely mad? > > My second reaction was, it's not wrong to publish even Hitlar's writings, > because how else can interested people find out how misguided he was, and > how else can historians combat his ideas. Free speech and all that. > > But my final conclusion is that this is indeed completely inappropriate > because MLBD presents itself as an Indological publisher, and *Mein Kampf*isn't even remotely connected with serious Indology. Even participants in > the "Indology under National Socialism" debate don't really need a new > edition of *Kampf*, surely. > > I shall therefore be writing to MLBD in protest in the strongest terms > about this pubication. I urge all my colleagues to do the same. If > someone wants to set up a petition, I'll gladly sign it. > > Best, > Dominik Wujastyk > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > http://listinfo.indology.info > -- Jesse Ross Knutson PhD Assistant Professor of Sanskrit and Bengali, Department of Indo-Pacific Languages and Literatures University of Hawai'i at M?noa 452A Spalding -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: IMG_20140515_193801.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 1164917 bytes Desc: not available URL: From hermantull at gmail.com Thu May 15 20:54:44 2014 From: hermantull at gmail.com (Herman Tull) Date: Thu, 15 May 14 16:54:44 -0400 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Hitler and MLBD In-Reply-To: Message-ID: And where is Section 295 of the Indian Penal Code? Whoever, with deliberate and malicious intention of outraging the religious feelings of any class of [citizens of India], [by words, either spoken or written, or by signs or by visible representations or otherwise], insults or attempts to insult the religion or the religious beliefs of that class, shall be punished with imprisonment of either description for a term which may extend to [three years], or with fine, or with both. On Thu, May 15, 2014 at 1:54 PM, Dominik Wujastyk wrote: > I see from the April 2014 issue of the MLBD Newsletter that MLBD is > bringing out an edition of *Mein Kampf *by Adolph Hitlar (sic). It > nestles incongruously between Alonso on the Mahabharata and the Black on > the Upanisads. > > > ? > > This was a shock! My immediate reaction was that I wish furiously to > sever all links with MLBD. I have already written to Penguin Delhi, asking > to withdraw my book from them because of their scandalous pulping of > Doniger's book. Now MLDB is publishing "Hitlar." Has Indian publishing > gone completely mad? > > My second reaction was, it's not wrong to publish even Hitlar's writings, > because how else can interested people find out how misguided he was, and > how else can historians combat his ideas. Free speech and all that. > > But my final conclusion is that this is indeed completely inappropriate > because MLBD presents itself as an Indological publisher, and *Mein Kampf*isn't even remotely connected with serious Indology. Even participants in > the "Indology under National Socialism" debate don't really need a new > edition of *Kampf*, surely. > > I shall therefore be writing to MLBD in protest in the strongest terms > about this pubication. I urge all my colleagues to do the same. If > someone wants to set up a petition, I'll gladly sign it. > > Best, > Dominik Wujastyk > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > http://listinfo.indology.info > -- *Herman TullPrinceton, NJ * -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: IMG_20140515_193801.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 1164917 bytes Desc: not available URL: From rospatt at berkeley.edu Fri May 16 01:05:53 2014 From: rospatt at berkeley.edu (Alexander von Rospatt) Date: Fri, 16 May 14 10:05:53 +0900 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Hitler and MLBD In-Reply-To: <82C3E42590D939418C74DD76B97DDED01AF20C2C@xm-mbx-04-prod.ad.uchicago.edu> Message-ID: <1194F6E3-0C51-4E1C-A24F-19F642AAC30A@berkeley.edu> Poltically besides the (deplorable) point but shouldn?t the Subject line say "Hitlar and MLBD? ? ? Alex Rospatt ---------------- Alexander von Rospatt, Professor Department of South and Southeast Asian Studies Group in Buddhist Studies, Director University of California 7233 Dwinelle Hall # 2540 Berkeley, CA 94720-2540 USA Phone: +1-510-6421610 Fax: +1-510-6432959 Email: rospatt at berkeley.edu http://sseas.berkeley.edu/people/faculty/alexander-von-rospatt On May 16, 2014, at 3:07 AM, Matthew Kapstein wrote: > > Hi Dominik, > > Is this one of their own publications, or is it part of their distribution list? > > Pretty stupid of them either way. > > best, > Matthew > > Matthew Kapstein > Directeur d'?tudes, > Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes > > Numata Visiting Professor of Buddhist Studies, > The University of Chicago > > ________________________________________ > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > http://listinfo.indology.info -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From shrinsaha at gmail.com Fri May 16 06:17:29 2014 From: shrinsaha at gmail.com (Niranjan Saha) Date: Fri, 16 May 14 11:47:29 +0530 Subject: [INDOLOGY] MAnasollAsa In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Dear Professor Jha, Namaskar! You may list out the following translations of the Manaollasa. 1. Dakshinamurtistotra of Sri Sankaracharya and Dakshinamurti Upanishad with Sureswaracharya's Manasolla and Pranava Vartika, texts and translations in English by Alladi Mahadeva Sastry, Samata Books, Chennai, 2001, Rs 150 (samatabooks at gmail.com). 2. Dakshinamurti Stotra with Manasollasa, texts and translation in English by Swami Harshananda, Ramakrishna Math, Bangalore, 1999, Rs 35 3. Sridakshinamurtistotram (A Study based on the Manasollasa and Tattvasudha) by D.S.Subbaramaiya (out of print, vols.1-2, Dakshinamnaya Sri Sarada Peetham, 1990; photostat copy may be available on request to srinivasan.rbi at gmail.com). Sincerely, Niranjan Saha, Kolkata 67 On Thu, May 15, 2014 at 9:26 AM, Dn Jha wrote: > Dear List, > Can any one direct me to a good English translation of MAnasollAsa? > Gratefully, > DNJ > -- > -- > D N Jha > Professor of History (retired), > University of Delhi > 9, Uttaranchal Apartments > 5, I.P. Extension, Delhi 110 092 > Tel: + 2277 1049 > Cell: 98111 43090 > jdnarayan at gmail.com > dnjha72 at gmail.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > http://listinfo.indology.info > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jknutson at hawaii.edu Fri May 16 06:37:26 2014 From: jknutson at hawaii.edu (Jesse Knutson) Date: Thu, 15 May 14 20:37:26 -1000 Subject: [INDOLOGY] MAnasollAsa In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I suspect that Professor Jha is talking about a different M?nasoll?sa, i.e. the one listed below (and I am not sure if there is any English translation of the whole or part of it): Ma?nasolla?sa of King Bhu?lokamalla Somes?vara - Author: Somes?vara Chalukya Emperor, active 12th century. - Title: Ma?nasolla?sa of King Bhu?lokamalla Somes?vara / edited by G.K. Shrigondekar. - Edition: 2nd ed. - Publisher: Baroda : Oriental Institute, 1967- - Description: volumes ; 25 cm. - Series: Government of India Sanskrit book reprint series Gaekwad's oriental series ; 28. - Subjects: Education of princes. Education of princes. India. - Genre/Form: Early works. - Other Name(s): Shrigondekar, G. K. (Gajanan Kusaba) - Notes: In Sanskrit; introduction in English. Half title in Sanskrit: Ma?nasolla?sah?. Reprint. Originally published: Baroda : Central Library, 1925- (Gaekwad's oriental series ; no. 28). With new foreword. Equally well-known as the Abhilas?ita?rthacinta?man?i. - Related Title added entry: Abhilas?ita?rthacinta?man?i. - Summary/Abstract: On princes education in ancient India. - - On Thu, May 15, 2014 at 8:17 PM, Niranjan Saha wrote: > Dear Professor Jha, > > Namaskar! You may list out the following translations of the Manaollasa. > > 1. Dakshinamurtistotra of Sri Sankaracharya and Dakshinamurti Upanishad > with Sureswaracharya's Manasolla and Pranava Vartika, texts and > translations in English by Alladi Mahadeva Sastry, Samata Books, Chennai, > 2001, Rs 150 (samatabooks at gmail.com). > > 2. Dakshinamurti Stotra with Manasollasa, texts and translation in English > by Swami Harshananda, Ramakrishna Math, Bangalore, 1999, Rs 35 > > 3. Sridakshinamurtistotram (A Study based on the Manasollasa and > Tattvasudha) by D.S.Subbaramaiya (out of print, vols.1-2, Dakshinamnaya Sri > Sarada Peetham, 1990; photostat copy may be available on request to > srinivasan.rbi at gmail.com). > > Sincerely, > Niranjan Saha, Kolkata 67 > > > On Thu, May 15, 2014 at 9:26 AM, Dn Jha wrote: > >> Dear List, >> Can any one direct me to a good English translation of MAnasollAsa? >> Gratefully, >> DNJ >> -- >> -- >> D N Jha >> Professor of History (retired), >> University of Delhi >> 9, Uttaranchal Apartments >> 5, I.P. Extension, Delhi 110 092 >> Tel: + 2277 1049 >> Cell: 98111 43090 >> jdnarayan at gmail.com >> dnjha72 at gmail.com >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> INDOLOGY mailing list >> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info >> http://listinfo.indology.info >> > > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > http://listinfo.indology.info > -- Jesse Ross Knutson PhD Assistant Professor of Sanskrit and Bengali, Department of Indo-Pacific Languages and Literatures University of Hawai'i at M?noa 452A Spalding -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From H.J.H.Tieken at hum.leidenuniv.nl Fri May 16 07:29:18 2014 From: H.J.H.Tieken at hum.leidenuniv.nl (Tieken, H.J.H.) Date: Fri, 16 May 14 07:29:18 +0000 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Malcolm Voyce's email address Message-ID: I would like to thank my colleagues for the many reactions to my request for Malcolm Voyce's email address. Herman Herman Tieken University of Leiden The Netherlands website: hermantieken.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From wujastyk at gmail.com Fri May 16 11:58:28 2014 From: wujastyk at gmail.com (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Fri, 16 May 14 13:58:28 +0200 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Fwd: Hitler and MLBD In-Reply-To: <65462484-B6E5-4199-9CFA-D34FF2B7416B@uni-bonn.de> Message-ID: ---------- Forwarded message ?(with Peter's permission) ? ---------- From: Peter Wyzlic Date: 15 May 2014 20:25 Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] Hitler and MLBD And it is most probably a pirated edition. Hitler's Mein Kampf is still under copyright in Germany (copyright ends 70 years after the author's death, i.e. in 2015). Holder of rights is the Bavarian government in Munich and they are generally very restrictive in granting printing permission. If they do then mostly for commented selections for scholarly purposes (recently the government has denied rights for a publication of a new critical edition that is being prepared by German historians). All the best Peter Wyzlic -- Institut f?r Orient- und Asienwissenschaften Bibliothek Universit?t Bonn Regina-Pacis-Weg 7 53113 Bonn -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From uskokov at uchicago.edu Fri May 16 12:23:26 2014 From: uskokov at uchicago.edu (Aleksandar Uskokov) Date: Fri, 16 May 14 07:23:26 -0500 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Fwd: Hitler and MLBD In-Reply-To: Message-ID: One curiosity is how cheep the book is. One wonders if it is subsidized. On May 16, 2014 6:59 AM, "Dominik Wujastyk" wrote: > ---------- Forwarded message > ?(with Peter's permission) ? > ---------- > From: Peter Wyzlic > Date: 15 May 2014 20:25 > Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] Hitler and MLBD > > And it is most probably a pirated edition. Hitler's Mein Kampf is still > under copyright in Germany (copyright ends 70 years after the author's > death, i.e. in 2015). Holder of rights is the Bavarian government in Munich > and they are generally very restrictive in granting printing permission. If > they do then mostly for commented selections for scholarly purposes > (recently the government has denied rights for a publication of a new > critical edition that is being prepared by German historians). > > All the best > Peter Wyzlic > > -- > Institut f?r Orient- und Asienwissenschaften > Bibliothek > Universit?t Bonn > Regina-Pacis-Weg 7 > 53113 Bonn > > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > http://listinfo.indology.info > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mkapstei at uchicago.edu Fri May 16 13:17:52 2014 From: mkapstei at uchicago.edu (Matthew Kapstein) Date: Fri, 16 May 14 13:17:52 +0000 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Fwd: Hitler and MLBD In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <82C3E42590D939418C74DD76B97DDED01AF21019@xm-mbx-04-prod.ad.uchicago.edu> Pirated or not, Mein Kampf has been a regular fixture of street-corner and railway station booksellers in India for decades. I recall it all over the place even during my first visit to India in 1970. What is surprising is to see a "respectable" publisher dealing with it. This is why I wanted to know whether MLBD has actually published it, or whether it appears only in their distribution list. In the latter case, higher management might not be at all responsible, though this would certainly be a great oversight on their part. In any case, it seems to me to be necessary to determine just what MLBD is doing with this, and then to make known to them that the Indological community (many of us at least) consider this to be unacceptable and that we will recommend that our libraries stop dealing with them if they are indeed committed to publishiing or distributing this particular item. I imagine that such a move would get their attention in a hurry. And, if they have indeed published it, I think we should insist very publically (e.g. in an op ed in The Times of India or The Hindu) that they have the thing "pulped." There's not much we can do about the fly-by-night publishers, but MLBD should know better. best to all, Matthew Matthew Kapstein Directeur d'?tudes, Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes Numata Visiting Professor of Buddhist Studies, The University of Chicago ________________________________ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From toke_knudsen at mac.com Fri May 16 13:28:06 2014 From: toke_knudsen at mac.com (Toke Knudsen) Date: Fri, 16 May 14 09:28:06 -0400 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Fwd: Hitler and MLBD In-Reply-To: <82C3E42590D939418C74DD76B97DDED01AF21019@xm-mbx-04-prod.ad.uchicago.edu> Message-ID: Looking up the ISBN number of the book, it appears that it was published by New Age Books on 1/1/2014; see . All best, Toke On May 16, 2014, at 9:17 AM, Matthew Kapstein wrote: > Pirated or not, Mein Kampf has been a regular fixture of street-corner and railway station booksellers in India for decades. I recall it all over the place even during my first visit to India in 1970. What is surprising is > to see a "respectable" publisher dealing with it. This is why I wanted to know whether MLBD has > actually published it, or whether it appears only in their distribution list. In the latter case, higher > management might not be at all responsible, though this would certainly be a great oversight > on their part. > > In any case, it seems to me to be necessary to determine just what MLBD is doing with this, and > then to make known to them that the Indological community (many of us at least) consider this > to be unacceptable and that we will recommend that our libraries stop dealing with them if > they are indeed committed to publishiing or distributing this particular item. I imagine that > such a move would get their attention in a hurry. > > And, if they have indeed published it, I think we should insist very publically (e.g. in an op ed in > The Times of India or The Hindu) that they have the thing "pulped." > > There's not much we can do about the fly-by-night publishers, but MLBD should know better. > > best to all, > Matthew > > Matthew Kapstein > Directeur d'?tudes, > Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes > > Numata Visiting Professor of Buddhist Studies, > The University of Chicago > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > http://listinfo.indology.info From toke.knudsen at oneonta.edu Fri May 16 13:30:24 2014 From: toke.knudsen at oneonta.edu (Toke Knudsen) Date: Fri, 16 May 14 09:30:24 -0400 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Fwd: Hitler and MLBD In-Reply-To: <82C3E42590D939418C74DD76B97DDED01AF21019@xm-mbx-04-prod.ad.uchicago.edu> Message-ID: Looking up the ISBN number of the book, it appears that it was published by New Age Books on 1/1/2014; see . All best, Toke On May 16, 2014, at 9:17 AM, Matthew Kapstein wrote: > Pirated or not, Mein Kampf has been a regular fixture of street-corner and railway station booksellers in India for decades. I recall it all over the place even during my first visit to India in 1970. What is surprising is > to see a "respectable" publisher dealing with it. This is why I wanted to know whether MLBD has > actually published it, or whether it appears only in their distribution list. In the latter case, higher > management might not be at all responsible, though this would certainly be a great oversight > on their part. > > In any case, it seems to me to be necessary to determine just what MLBD is doing with this, and > then to make known to them that the Indological community (many of us at least) consider this > to be unacceptable and that we will recommend that our libraries stop dealing with them if > they are indeed committed to publishiing or distributing this particular item. I imagine that > such a move would get their attention in a hurry. > > And, if they have indeed published it, I think we should insist very publically (e.g. in an op ed in > The Times of India or The Hindu) that they have the thing "pulped." > > There's not much we can do about the fly-by-night publishers, but MLBD should know better. > > best to all, > Matthew > > Matthew Kapstein > Directeur d'?tudes, > Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes > > Numata Visiting Professor of Buddhist Studies, > The University of Chicago > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > http://listinfo.indology.info From jacob at fabularasa.dk Fri May 16 13:40:27 2014 From: jacob at fabularasa.dk (jacob at fabularasa.dk) Date: Fri, 16 May 14 15:40:27 +0200 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Fwd: Hitler and MLBD In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <0867f59e2860fc727f97bde0a5825d96@fabularasa.dk> New Age Books is an associate of Motilal Banarsidass (mlbd.com/contactus.aspx). The website of the former (newagebooksindia.com) leads directly to the website of the latter (mlbd.com). Best, Jacob Toke Knudsen skrev den 2014-05-16 15:30: > Looking up the ISBN number of the book, it appears that it was > published by New Age Books on 1/1/2014; see > . > > All best, > Toke > > > > On May 16, 2014, at 9:17 AM, Matthew Kapstein > wrote: > >> Pirated or not, Mein Kampf has been a regular fixture of street-corner >> and railway station booksellers in India for decades. I recall it all >> over the place even during my first visit to India in 1970. What is >> surprising is >> to see a "respectable" publisher dealing with it. This is why I wanted >> to know whether MLBD has >> actually published it, or whether it appears only in their >> distribution list. In the latter case, higher >> management might not be at all responsible, though this would >> certainly be a great oversight >> on their part. >> >> In any case, it seems to me to be necessary to determine just what >> MLBD is doing with this, and >> then to make known to them that the Indological community (many of us >> at least) consider this >> to be unacceptable and that we will recommend that our libraries stop >> dealing with them if >> they are indeed committed to publishiing or distributing this >> particular item. I imagine that >> such a move would get their attention in a hurry. >> >> And, if they have indeed published it, I think we should insist very >> publically (e.g. in an op ed in >> The Times of India or The Hindu) that they have the thing "pulped." >> >> There's not much we can do about the fly-by-night publishers, but MLBD >> should know better. >> >> best to all, >> Matthew >> >> Matthew Kapstein >> Directeur d'?tudes, >> Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes >> >> Numata Visiting Professor of Buddhist Studies, >> The University of Chicago >> >> _______________________________________________ >> INDOLOGY mailing list >> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info >> http://listinfo.indology.info > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > http://listinfo.indology.info From karp at uw.edu.pl Fri May 16 17:28:30 2014 From: karp at uw.edu.pl (Artur Karp) Date: Fri, 16 May 14 19:28:30 +0200 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Fwd: Hitler and MLBD In-Reply-To: <0867f59e2860fc727f97bde0a5825d96@fabularasa.dk> Message-ID: Hitlar among among the MLBD listed publications --- and Mr Modi for India's premiership --- A coincidence, really? Best, Artur 2014-05-16 15:40 GMT+02:00 : > New Age Books is an associate of Motilal Banarsidass ( > mlbd.com/contactus.aspx). The website of the former (newagebooksindia.com) > leads directly to the website of the latter (mlbd.com). > > Best, > Jacob > > Toke Knudsen skrev den 2014-05-16 15:30: > > Looking up the ISBN number of the book, it appears that it was >> published by New Age Books on 1/1/2014; see >> . >> >> All best, >> Toke >> >> >> >> On May 16, 2014, at 9:17 AM, Matthew Kapstein >> wrote: >> >> Pirated or not, Mein Kampf has been a regular fixture of street-corner >>> and railway station booksellers in India for decades. I recall it all over >>> the place even during my first visit to India in 1970. What is surprising is >>> to see a "respectable" publisher dealing with it. This is why I wanted >>> to know whether MLBD has >>> actually published it, or whether it appears only in their distribution >>> list. In the latter case, higher >>> management might not be at all responsible, though this would certainly >>> be a great oversight >>> on their part. >>> >>> In any case, it seems to me to be necessary to determine just what MLBD >>> is doing with this, and >>> then to make known to them that the Indological community (many of us at >>> least) consider this >>> to be unacceptable and that we will recommend that our libraries stop >>> dealing with them if >>> they are indeed committed to publishiing or distributing this particular >>> item. I imagine that >>> such a move would get their attention in a hurry. >>> >>> And, if they have indeed published it, I think we should insist very >>> publically (e.g. in an op ed in >>> The Times of India or The Hindu) that they have the thing "pulped." >>> >>> There's not much we can do about the fly-by-night publishers, but MLBD >>> should know better. >>> >>> best to all, >>> Matthew >>> >>> Matthew Kapstein >>> Directeur d'?tudes, >>> Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes >>> >>> Numata Visiting Professor of Buddhist Studies, >>> The University of Chicago >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> INDOLOGY mailing list >>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info >>> http://listinfo.indology.info >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> INDOLOGY mailing list >> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info >> http://listinfo.indology.info >> > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > http://listinfo.indology.info > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From astol007 at gattamelata.com Sat May 17 06:32:20 2014 From: astol007 at gattamelata.com (Alexander Stolyarov) Date: Sat, 17 May 14 10:32:20 +0400 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Fwd: Are the limbs of God's body free? Yes, if He wants so ---Free will in and... - Academia.edu In-Reply-To: <0000014608d861f8-19e76bb8-1da2-4d94-93c3-392de23691f3-000000@email.amazonses.com> Message-ID: <53770274.2030500@gattamelata.com> -------- ???????? ????????? -------- ????: Are the limbs of God's body free? Yes, if He wants so ---Free will in and... - Academia.edu ????: Sat, 17 May 2014 06:22:17 +0000 ??: Academia.edu Weekly Digest ????????: Academia.edu Support ????: astol007 at gattamelata.com Top papers from your news feed from the last week Are the limbs of God's body free? Yes, if He wants so ---Free will in and before Ve?ka?an?tha https://www.academia.edu/t/x48hz/6986850/Are_the_limbs_of_Gods_body_free_Yes_if_He_wants_so_---Free_will_in_and_before_Ve_ka_anatha The reuse of texts in Indian Philosophy: General Introduction https://www.academia.edu/t/x48hz/6986868/The_reuse_of_texts_in_Indian_Philosophy_General_Introduction ----- Click here to disable weekly digest emails: https://academia.edu/t/x48hz/keypass/bea7be3ca03d8a1d84f65bbf96e13f1406309d5b/unsubscribe/weekly_digest Academia.edu, 251 Kearny St., Suite 520, San Francisco, CA, 94108 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 495 bytes Desc: not available URL: From jknutson at hawaii.edu Sat May 17 08:50:55 2014 From: jknutson at hawaii.edu (Jesse Knutson) Date: Fri, 16 May 14 22:50:55 -1000 Subject: =?utf-8?Q?[INDOLOGY]_J=C3=BCrgen_Hanneder's_review_of_Fallon's_Bha=E1=B9=AD=E1=B9=ADik=C4=81vya?= Message-ID: Does anyone have a soft copy of J?rgen Hanneder's review of Fallon's Bha??ik?vya I think it appeared in Zeitschrift der Deutschen Morgenl?ndischen Gesellschaft in 2011. Best,J Jesse Ross Knutson PhD Assistant Professor of Sanskrit and Bengali, Department of Indo-Pacific Languages and Literatures University of Hawai'i at M?noa 452A Spalding -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ajit.gargeshwari at gmail.com Sat May 17 17:26:12 2014 From: ajit.gargeshwari at gmail.com (Ajit Gargeshwari) Date: Sat, 17 May 14 22:56:12 +0530 Subject: [INDOLOGY] INDOLOGY Digest, Vol 16, Issue 15 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I think Prof. Karp should stick to core issues of Indology for which this list is designed instead of bringing inun wanted humor on a would be Prime Minister who is democratically elected Thanks. Sorry if I am rude I meant to bring back the focus............... on the same Note what Hitler has done is history and what a Prime Minister elect would deliver is the future Regards Ajit Gargeshwari ? ????? ??????? ?? ??????????? ?????? ????? ?? ? ????? ??? ?????? ?????????? ?????? ? ?????? ???????? ???????2.20?? On Sat, May 17, 2014 at 9:30 PM, wrote: > Send INDOLOGY mailing list submissions to > indology at list.indology.info > > To subscr > ? Prime Minister who is? > ibe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > > http://list.indology.info/mailman/listinfo/indology_list.indology.info > > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > indology-request at list.indology.info > > You can reach the person managing the list at > indology-owner at list.indology.info > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of INDOLOGY digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: Fwd: Hitler and MLBD (Artur Karp) > 2. Fwd: Are the limbs of God's body free? Yes, if He wants so > ---Free will in and... - Academia.edu (Alexander Stolyarov) > 3. J?rgen Hanneder's review of Fallon's Bha??ik?vya (Jesse Knutson) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Fri, 16 May 2014 19:28:30 +0200 > From: Artur Karp > To: jacob at fabularasa.dk > Cc: Indology > Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] Fwd: Hitler and MLBD > Message-ID: > < > CAEgrCzCW1iV04S70C62BQfFUx2MdoTcuHosUv0PHMg0ATYPWWQ at mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > Hitlar among among the MLBD listed publications --- and Mr Modi for India's > premiership --- > > A coincidence, really? > > Best, > > Artur > > > > 2014-05-16 15:40 GMT+02:00 : > > > New Age Books is an associate of Motilal Banarsidass ( > > mlbd.com/contactus.aspx). The website of the former ( > newagebooksindia.com) > > leads directly to the website of the latter (mlbd.com). > > > > Best, > > Jacob > > > > Toke Knudsen skrev den 2014-05-16 15:30: > > > > Looking up the ISBN number of the book, it appears that it was > >> published by New Age Books on 1/1/2014; see > >> . > >> > >> All best, > >> Toke > >> > >> > >> > >> On May 16, 2014, at 9:17 AM, Matthew Kapstein > >> wrote: > >> > >> Pirated or not, Mein Kampf has been a regular fixture of street-corner > >>> and railway station booksellers in India for decades. I recall it all > over > >>> the place even during my first visit to India in 1970. What is > surprising is > >>> to see a "respectable" publisher dealing with it. This is why I wanted > >>> to know whether MLBD has > >>> actually published it, or whether it appears only in their distribution > >>> list. In the latter case, higher > >>> management might not be at all responsible, though this would certainly > >>> be a great oversight > >>> on their part. > >>> > >>> In any case, it seems to me to be necessary to determine just what MLBD > >>> is doing with this, and > >>> then to make known to them that the Indological community (many of us > at > >>> least) consider this > >>> to be unacceptable and that we will recommend that our libraries stop > >>> dealing with them if > >>> they are indeed committed to publishiing or distributing this > particular > >>> item. I imagine that > >>> such a move would get their attention in a hurry. > >>> > >>> And, if they have indeed published it, I think we should insist very > >>> publically (e.g. in an op ed in > >>> The Times of India or The Hindu) that they have the thing "pulped." > >>> > >>> There's not much we can do about the fly-by-night publishers, but MLBD > >>> should know better. > >>> > >>> best to all, > >>> Matthew > >>> > >>> Matthew Kapstein > >>> Directeur d'?tudes, > >>> Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes > >>> > >>> Numata Visiting Professor of Buddhist Studies, > >>> The University of Chicago > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> INDOLOGY mailing list > >>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > >>> http://listinfo.indology.info > >>> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> INDOLOGY mailing list > >> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > >> http://listinfo.indology.info > >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > > INDOLOGY mailing list > > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > > http://listinfo.indology.info > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Gerard.Huet at inria.fr Sat May 17 18:33:30 2014 From: Gerard.Huet at inria.fr (=?utf-8?Q?G=C3=A9rard_Huet?=) Date: Sat, 17 May 14 20:33:30 +0200 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Golden Sanskrit dictionaries Message-ID: <4783047C-007F-4749-A8B9-E62836B10188@inria.fr> Dear indology members, this is to announce the release of Sanskrit dictionaries in Babylon/Stardict/Goldendict format, interlinked with grammatical tools (declension at present). All remarks appreciated, of course. G. Huet -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From manufrancis at gmail.com Sat May 17 21:01:09 2014 From: manufrancis at gmail.com (Manu Francis) Date: Sat, 17 May 14 23:01:09 +0200 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Vacant post in Paris at EFEO Message-ID: Good to know: vacancy in Paris. See forwarded message below. Best wishes. -- Emmanuel Francis Charg? de recherche CNRS, Centre d'?tude de l'Inde et de l'Asie du Sud (UMR 8564, EHESS-CNRS, Paris) http://ceias.ehess.fr/ http://ceias.ehess.fr/index.php?1725 http://rcsi.hypotheses.org/ Associate member, Centre for the Study of Manuscript Culture (SFB 950, Universit?t Hamburg) http://www.manuscript-cultures.uni-hamburg.de/index_e.html ===================== MESSAGE FORWARDED ===================== Un avis concernant la vacance d?un poste de directeur d??tudes de l?EFEO, *Etudes indiennes : histoire de l?art et/ou des religions indiennes* est en ligne depuis lundi 12 mai sur le portail minist?riel GALAXIE ? cette adresse : https://www.galaxie.enseignementsup-recherche.gouv.fr/ensup/cand_postes_enseignement_sup.htm (rubrique ? grands ?tablissements et corps sp?cifiques ?). L?information est ?galement mise en ligne sur le site Internet de l?EFEO ( www.efeo.fr , rubrique ? l?EFEO recrute ?). Les dossiers de candidature doivent ?tre adress?s au secr?tariat g?n?ral de l?EFEO avant le 10 juin 2014, uniquement sous format d?mat?rialis?. Le poste est ? pourvoir pour le 1er septembre 2014. Avec une pi?ce jointe. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Avisconcernantlavacancedunemploidedirecteurd?tudesEFEO.pdf Type: application/pdf Size: 408384 bytes Desc: not available URL: From karp at uw.edu.pl Sat May 17 21:03:23 2014 From: karp at uw.edu.pl (Artur Karp) Date: Sat, 17 May 14 23:03:23 +0200 Subject: [INDOLOGY] INDOLOGY Digest, Vol 16, Issue 15 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Dear Ajit --- and All, Yes. This List is not the place. My sincere apologies, if anyone feels offended. However. Two things. First. Gujarat 2002 pogroms are already history, and - being history - they are legitimate objects of indological scrutiny. Second. As a Pole I am extremely allergic to seeing Adolf Hitler's ideas of ethnic cleansing propagated. In India. Or anywhere else. Regards, Artur Karp Senior Lecturer in Sanskrit and Pali (ret.) South Asian Studies Deptt Oriental Faculty University of Warsaw Poland -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jemhouben at gmail.com Sat May 17 22:15:39 2014 From: jemhouben at gmail.com (Jan E.M. Houben) Date: Sun, 18 May 14 00:15:39 +0200 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Fwd: Hitler and MLBD In-Reply-To: <0867f59e2860fc727f97bde0a5825d96@fabularasa.dk> Message-ID: MLBD and its "New Age" wing should withdraw the book OR be boycotted by authors, readers and conferences. A longer description is found on: http://www.mlbd.com/BookDecription.aspx?id=18815 where we also learn that the book is in English (no translator's name is given), that its Territory is "Available For Sale Worldwide", and that the book "will give you an insight into one of the greatest evil geniuses of the last century". "About the book" contains no justification (attempt) why a scientific indological or new age publisher should publish this book. Jan Houben On 16 May 2014 15:40, wrote: > New Age Books is an associate of Motilal Banarsidass ( > mlbd.com/contactus.aspx). The website of the former (newagebooksindia.com) > leads directly to the website of the latter (mlbd.com). > > Best, > Jacob > > Toke Knudsen skrev den 2014-05-16 15:30: > > Looking up the ISBN number of the book, it appears that it was >> published by New Age Books on 1/1/2014; see >> . >> >> All best, >> Toke >> >> >> >> On May 16, 2014, at 9:17 AM, Matthew Kapstein >> wrote: >> >> Pirated or not, Mein Kampf has been a regular fixture of street-corner >>> and railway station booksellers in India for decades. I recall it all over >>> the place even during my first visit to India in 1970. What is surprising is >>> to see a "respectable" publisher dealing with it. This is why I wanted >>> to know whether MLBD has >>> actually published it, or whether it appears only in their distribution >>> list. In the latter case, higher >>> management might not be at all responsible, though this would certainly >>> be a great oversight >>> on their part. >>> >>> In any case, it seems to me to be necessary to determine just what MLBD >>> is doing with this, and >>> then to make known to them that the Indological community (many of us at >>> least) consider this >>> to be unacceptable and that we will recommend that our libraries stop >>> dealing with them if >>> they are indeed committed to publishiing or distributing this particular >>> item. I imagine that >>> such a move would get their attention in a hurry. >>> >>> And, if they have indeed published it, I think we should insist very >>> publically (e.g. in an op ed in >>> The Times of India or The Hindu) that they have the thing "pulped." >>> >>> There's not much we can do about the fly-by-night publishers, but MLBD >>> should know better. >>> >>> best to all, >>> Matthew >>> >>> Matthew Kapstein >>> Directeur d'?tudes, >>> Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes >>> >>> Numata Visiting Professor of Buddhist Studies, >>> The University of Chicago >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> INDOLOGY mailing list >>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info >>> http://listinfo.indology.info >>> >> >> -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From veerankp at gmail.com Sun May 18 08:54:18 2014 From: veerankp at gmail.com (Veeranarayana Pandurangi) Date: Sun, 18 May 14 14:24:18 +0530 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Fwd: Hitler and MLBD In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Dear list members I dont understand the hues and cries in this list which is mainly a forum for indology on availability of hitlars book on MLBD. Off course I am neither against your decision to cut ties with MLBD (it is your decision anyway) nor a fan of hitler. hitler has nothing to do in india. there are more national heroes in india to follow. this book is available virtuallly in every nook and corner of the world, freely on WWW http://www.angelfire.com/folk/bigbaldbob88/MeinKampf.pdf, http://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/mein-kampf-official-nazi-translation-adolf-hitler/1016335572?ean=9780977476091 and even on amzon http://www.amazon.com/Mein-Kampf-Deutsch-Sprache-ungek%C3%BCrzte/dp/1480191353 all these editions must be pirated one as it is still in copyright. what is the crime of MLBD if it publishes it for scholarly use just like it is sold on many booksellers cited above. more over MLBD is free institute to publish anything they want. there is no need of justification. this book is not banned even in Germany according to http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-17837325 Mein Kampf: Bavaria plans first German publication since WWII. "The book is not banned by law in Germany, but Bavaria has used ownership of the copyright to prevent publication of German editions since 1945." On Sun, May 18, 2014 at 3:45 AM, Jan E.M. Houben wrote: > MLBD and its "New Age" wing should withdraw the book OR be boycotted by > authors, readers and conferences. > A longer description is found on: > http://www.mlbd.com/BookDecription.aspx?id=18815 > where we also learn that the book is in English (no translator's name is > given), that its Territory is "Available For Sale Worldwide", and that the > book "will give you an insight into one of the greatest evil geniuses of > the last century". > "About the book" contains no justification (attempt) why a scientific > indological or new age publisher should publish this book. > Jan Houben > > > On 16 May 2014 15:40, wrote: > >> New Age Books is an associate of Motilal Banarsidass ( >> mlbd.com/contactus.aspx). The website of the former (newagebooksindia.com) >> leads directly to the website of the latter (mlbd.com). >> >> Best, >> Jacob >> >> Toke Knudsen skrev den 2014-05-16 15:30: >> >> Looking up the ISBN number of the book, it appears that it was >>> published by New Age Books on 1/1/2014; see >>> . >>> >>> All best, >>> Toke >>> >>> >>> >>> On May 16, 2014, at 9:17 AM, Matthew Kapstein >>> wrote: >>> >>> Pirated or not, Mein Kampf has been a regular fixture of street-corner >>>> and railway station booksellers in India for decades. I recall it all over >>>> the place even during my first visit to India in 1970. What is surprising is >>>> to see a "respectable" publisher dealing with it. This is why I wanted >>>> to know whether MLBD has >>>> actually published it, or whether it appears only in their distribution >>>> list. In the latter case, higher >>>> management might not be at all responsible, though this would certainly >>>> be a great oversight >>>> on their part. >>>> >>>> In any case, it seems to me to be necessary to determine just what MLBD >>>> is doing with this, and >>>> then to make known to them that the Indological community (many of us >>>> at least) consider this >>>> to be unacceptable and that we will recommend that our libraries stop >>>> dealing with them if >>>> they are indeed committed to publishiing or distributing this >>>> particular item. I imagine that >>>> such a move would get their attention in a hurry. >>>> >>>> And, if they have indeed published it, I think we should insist very >>>> publically (e.g. in an op ed in >>>> The Times of India or The Hindu) that they have the thing "pulped." >>>> >>>> There's not much we can do about the fly-by-night publishers, but MLBD >>>> should know better. >>>> >>>> best to all, >>>> Matthew >>>> >>>> Matthew Kapstein >>>> Directeur d'?tudes, >>>> Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes >>>> >>>> Numata Visiting Professor of Buddhist Studies, >>>> The University of Chicago >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> INDOLOGY mailing list >>>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info >>>> http://listinfo.indology.info >>>> >>> >>> > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > http://listinfo.indology.info > -- Veeranarayana N.K. Pandurangi Faculty of Vedantas Karnakata Samskrita University, Chamarajendra Samskrit College Chamarajpet, Bengaluru. ?? ??????????? ??????? ???????? ? ????????? ??? ???????? ??????? ? ?????? ??????????????? ?????????????? ??????? ??????? ??????????? ??????????????? ?????? ???????? ??????????? (?.??.) http://www.ksu.ac.in http://jrrsanskrituniversity.ac.in/ http://jrrsanskrituniversity.ac.in/acd1.asp https://groups.google.com/forum/?hl=en&fromgroups#!forum/bvparishat -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mkapstei at uchicago.edu Sun May 18 10:00:45 2014 From: mkapstei at uchicago.edu (Matthew Kapstein) Date: Sun, 18 May 14 10:00:45 +0000 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Fwd: Hitler and MLBD In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <82C3E42590D939418C74DD76B97DDED01AF213D6@xm-mbx-04-prod.ad.uchicago.edu> >what is the crime of MLBD if it publishes it for scholarly use just like it is sold on many booksellers cited above. Dear colleague, In response to your question above, we are not speaking of "crimes," except perhaps the crime of piracy and infringement of copyright. What many of us find to be deeply disturbing in MLBD's conduct is not, however, anything criminal in that sense; it is a moral problem: MLBD has become a purveyor of racist hate literature, and many of us in the field of Indology do not believe that our field, or our own work, should be sullied by association with racism. The qualification "for scholarly use" has no value, because no book-dealer is in a position to oversee how the books they sell are used. "just like it is sold on many booksellers" also has no value: it is ithe equivalent of arguing that X has the right to beat his wife because Y does so. I hope that this is sufficiently clear. Matthew Kapstein Directeur d'?tudes, Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes Numata Visiting Professor of Buddhist Studies, The University of Chicago ________________________________ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jpo at uts.cc.utexas.edu Sun May 18 12:41:36 2014 From: jpo at uts.cc.utexas.edu (Patrick Olivelle) Date: Sun, 18 May 14 07:41:36 -0500 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Rig Veda Translation Message-ID: <9DB8EEB9-E52A-49DF-B541-83F5ACCA26FE@uts.cc.utexas.edu> Dear All: Perhaps this was already posted while I was away from Austin; and apologies for cross-posting. The much awaited translation of the Rig Veda by Joel Brereton and Stephanie Jamison is not out from OUP in a beautiful three-volume set. Here is the URL: http://global.oup.com/academic/product/the-rigveda-9780199370184;jsessionid=BE1BBC9A5A8FC29DEAB0771175CE9AAE?cc=us&lang=en& With best wishes, Patrick Olivelle From j.jurewicz at uw.edu.pl Sun May 18 12:53:12 2014 From: j.jurewicz at uw.edu.pl (Joanna Jurewicz) Date: Sun, 18 May 14 14:53:12 +0200 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Rig Veda Translation In-Reply-To: <9DB8EEB9-E52A-49DF-B541-83F5ACCA26FE@uts.cc.utexas.edu> Message-ID: What a wonderful news! Congratulations to the authors! With best wishes Joanna Jurewicz --- dr hab. Joanna Jurewicz, prof. UW Katedra Azji Po?udniowej Wydzia? Orientalistyczny Uniwersytet Warszawski ul. Krakowskie Przedmie?cie 26/28 00-927 Warszawa 2014-05-18 14:41 GMT+02:00 Patrick Olivelle : > Dear All: > > Perhaps this was already posted while I was away from Austin; and > apologies for cross-posting. > > The much awaited translation of the Rig Veda by Joel Brereton and > Stephanie Jamison is not out from OUP in a beautiful three-volume set. Here > is the URL: > > > http://global.oup.com/academic/product/the-rigveda-9780199370184;jsessionid=BE1BBC9A5A8FC29DEAB0771175CE9AAE?cc=us&lang=en& > > With best wishes, > > Patrick Olivelle > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > http://listinfo.indology.info > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jpo at uts.cc.utexas.edu Sun May 18 14:25:32 2014 From: jpo at uts.cc.utexas.edu (Patrick Olivelle) Date: Sun, 18 May 14 09:25:32 -0500 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Rig Veda Translation Message-ID: WHAT I MEANT TO SAY WAS: it is NOW out from OUP!! Dear All: Perhaps this was already posted while I was away from Austin; and apologies for cross-posting. The much awaited translation of the Rig Veda by Joel Brereton and Stephanie Jamison is not out from OUP in a beautiful three-volume set. Here is the URL: http://global.oup.com/academic/product/the-rigveda-9780199370184;jsessionid=BE1BBC9A5A8FC29DEAB0771175CE9AAE?cc=us&lang=en& With best wishes, Patrick Olivelle From james.hartzell at gmail.com Sun May 18 15:06:36 2014 From: james.hartzell at gmail.com (James) Date: Sun, 18 May 14 17:06:36 +0200 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Rig Veda Translation In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <0E50A254-DD3C-4BAC-8ADE-A499261A34DD@gmail.com> Great news! Does anyone know how to find thee book version? > On May 18, 2014, at 16:25, Patrick Olivelle wrote: > > WHAT I MEANT TO SAY WAS: it is NOW out from OUP!! > > > Dear All: > > Perhaps this was already posted while I was away from Austin; and apologies for cross-posting. > > The much awaited translation of the Rig Veda by Joel Brereton and Stephanie Jamison is not out from OUP in a beautiful three-volume set. Here is the URL: > > http://global.oup.com/academic/product/the-rigveda-9780199370184;jsessionid=BE1BBC9A5A8FC29DEAB0771175CE9AAE?cc=us&lang=en& > > With best wishes, > > Patrick Olivelle > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > http://listinfo.indology.info From rajam at earthlink.net Sun May 18 15:30:55 2014 From: rajam at earthlink.net (rajam) Date: Sun, 18 May 14 08:30:55 -0700 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Rig Veda Translation In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <5D5660D1-A705-4C4A-A940-E820644A9487@earthlink.net> Thanks for the information on the publication. The URL doesn?t open. Regards, Rajam On May 18, 2014, at 7:25 AM, Patrick Olivelle wrote: > WHAT I MEANT TO SAY WAS: it is NOW out from OUP!! > > > Dear All: > > Perhaps this was already posted while I was away from Austin; and apologies for cross-posting. > > The much awaited translation of the Rig Veda by Joel Brereton and Stephanie Jamison is not out from OUP in a beautiful three-volume set. Here is the URL: > > http://global.oup.com/academic/product/the-rigveda-9780199370184;jsessionid=BE1BBC9A5A8FC29DEAB0771175CE9AAE?cc=us&lang=en& > > With best wishes, > > Patrick Olivelle > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > http://listinfo.indology.info From jemhouben at gmail.com Sun May 18 17:21:02 2014 From: jemhouben at gmail.com (Jan E.M. Houben) Date: Sun, 18 May 14 19:21:02 +0200 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Fwd: Hitler and MLBD Message-ID: Dear list members, An indological publisher claiming to be a "leading Indian publishing house on Sanskrit and Indology" and the first to win a Padma award for outstanding community service through publishing (accorded to Shantilal Jain in 1992), has a scientific reputation which it can choose to maintain or throw away. To decide to add an isolated non-indological book to the indological and new age books published and marketed world-wide is a free choice and it makes a free statement. Especially if this isolated non-indological book happens to be Mein Kampf (already widely available and widely read in India since 1928) -- rather than giving the word to real heroes of the period such as Anne Frank ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Diary_of_a_Young_Girl) or the non-violent resistance group the White Rose (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_Rose). Although it contains many unverified points "(citation needed)", it may be instructive to have a look at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mein_Kampf and associated references to http://jungle-world.com/artikel/2013/33/48296.html http://rt.com/news/mein-kampf-sales-india/ Mein Kampf may be tucked away toward the bottom of p. 10 of MLBD Newsletter vol. XXXVI No. 4 (April 2014), it appears most prominently on the Motilal homepage where it cannot be missed: http://www.mlbd.com/. Jan Houben On 18 May 2014 10:54, Veeranarayana Pandurangi wrote: > Dear list members > > I dont understand the hues and cries in this list which is mainly a forum > for indology on availability of hitlars book on MLBD. > > Off course I am neither against your decision to cut ties with MLBD (it > is your decision anyway) nor a fan of hitler. > hitler has nothing to do in india. there are more national heroes in india > to follow. > > this book is available virtuallly in every nook and corner of the world, > freely on WWW http://www.angelfire.com/folk/bigbaldbob88/MeinKampf.pdf, > http://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/mein-kampf-official-nazi-translation-adolf-hitler/1016335572?ean=9780977476091 and > even on amzon > http://www.amazon.com/Mein-Kampf-Deutsch-Sprache-ungek%C3%BCrzte/dp/1480191353 > > all these editions must be pirated one as it is still in copyright. > > what is the crime of MLBD if it publishes it for scholarly use just like > it is sold on many booksellers cited above. > > more over MLBD is free institute to publish anything they want. there is > no need of justification. this book is not banned even in Germany > according to http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-17837325 Mein Kampf: > Bavaria plans first German publication since WWII. > > "The book is not banned by law in Germany, but Bavaria has used ownership > of the copyright to prevent publication of German editions since 1945." > > > > > On Sun, May 18, 2014 at 3:45 AM, Jan E.M. Houben wrote: > >> MLBD and its "New Age" wing should withdraw the book OR be boycotted by >> authors, readers and conferences. >> A longer description is found on: >> http://www.mlbd.com/BookDecription.aspx?id=18815 >> where we also learn that the book is in English (no translator's name is >> given), that its Territory is "Available For Sale Worldwide", and that the >> book "will give you an insight into one of the greatest evil geniuses of >> the last century". >> "About the book" contains no justification (attempt) why a scientific >> indological or new age publisher should publish this book. >> Jan Houben >> >> >> On 16 May 2014 15:40, wrote: >> >>> New Age Books is an associate of Motilal Banarsidass ( >>> mlbd.com/contactus.aspx). The website of the former ( >>> newagebooksindia.com) leads directly to the website of the latter ( >>> mlbd.com). >>> >>> Best, >>> Jacob >>> >>> Toke Knudsen skrev den 2014-05-16 15:30: >>> >>> Looking up the ISBN number of the book, it appears that it was >>>> published by New Age Books on 1/1/2014; see >>>> . >>>> >>>> All best, >>>> Toke >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On May 16, 2014, at 9:17 AM, Matthew Kapstein >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>> Pirated or not, Mein Kampf has been a regular fixture of street-corner >>>>> and railway station booksellers in India for decades. I recall it all over >>>>> the place even during my first visit to India in 1970. What is surprising is >>>>> to see a "respectable" publisher dealing with it. This is why I wanted >>>>> to know whether MLBD has >>>>> actually published it, or whether it appears only in their >>>>> distribution list. In the latter case, higher >>>>> management might not be at all responsible, though this would >>>>> certainly be a great oversight >>>>> on their part. >>>>> >>>>> In any case, it seems to me to be necessary to determine just what >>>>> MLBD is doing with this, and >>>>> then to make known to them that the Indological community (many of us >>>>> at least) consider this >>>>> to be unacceptable and that we will recommend that our libraries stop >>>>> dealing with them if >>>>> they are indeed committed to publishiing or distributing this >>>>> particular item. I imagine that >>>>> such a move would get their attention in a hurry. >>>>> >>>>> And, if they have indeed published it, I think we should insist very >>>>> publically (e.g. in an op ed in >>>>> The Times of India or The Hindu) that they have the thing "pulped." >>>>> >>>>> There's not much we can do about the fly-by-night publishers, but MLBD >>>>> should know better. >>>>> >>>>> best to all, >>>>> Matthew >>>>> >>>>> Matthew Kapstein >>>>> Directeur d'?tudes, >>>>> Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes >>>>> >>>>> Numata Visiting Professor of Buddhist Studies, >>>>> The University of Chicago >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> INDOLOGY mailing list >>>>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info >>>>> http://listinfo.indology.info >>>>> >>>> >>>> >> _______________________________________________ >> INDOLOGY mailing list >> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info >> http://listinfo.indology.info >> > > > > -- > Veeranarayana N.K. Pandurangi > Faculty of Vedantas > Karnakata Samskrita University, > Chamarajendra Samskrit College > Chamarajpet, Bengaluru. > > > ?? ??????????? ??????? ???????? ? ????????? ??? ???????? ??????? ? ?????? > ??????????????? > ?????????????? ??????? ??????? ??????????? ??????????????? ?????? ???????? > ??????????? (?.??.) > > http://www.ksu.ac.in > http://jrrsanskrituniversity.ac.in/ > http://jrrsanskrituniversity.ac.in/acd1.asp > https://groups.google.com/forum/?hl=en&fromgroups#!forum/bvparishat > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > http://listinfo.indology.info > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From wujastyk at gmail.com Sun May 18 18:18:59 2014 From: wujastyk at gmail.com (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Sun, 18 May 14 20:18:59 +0200 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Rig Veda Translation In-Reply-To: <5D5660D1-A705-4C4A-A940-E820644A9487@earthlink.net> Message-ID: On 18 May 2014 17:30, rajam wrote: > Thanks for the information on the publication. > > The URL doesn?t open. > ?It does for me. I think it's fine. DW -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From reimann at berkeley.edu Sun May 18 23:45:11 2014 From: reimann at berkeley.edu (Luis Gonzalez-Reimann) Date: Sun, 18 May 14 16:45:11 -0700 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Fwd: Hitler and MLBD In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <53794607.3080200@berkeley.edu> Dear Veeranarayana and all, > ...hitler has nothing to do in india. there are more national heroes > in india to follow. Although for many on the list there will not be much that's new, the attached short article (3 pages) is worth reading at this point. it is called "The Paradox of the Popularity of Hitler in India," just published. It is online at: http://asianjewishlife.org/pages/TOC/AJL_TOC_Issue_14_April2014.html Luis -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Aafreedi2014HitlerinIndia.pdf Type: application/pdf Size: 367779 bytes Desc: not available URL: From dipak.d2004 at gmail.com Mon May 19 02:47:59 2014 From: dipak.d2004 at gmail.com (Dipak Bhattacharya) Date: Mon, 19 May 14 08:17:59 +0530 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Fwd: Hitler and MLBD In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Dear Colleagues, I am all praise for the noble sentiments expressed. We may, perhaps, also add the name of Jeanne Corbin (France and Canada) among the fighters against Hitler. She did not leave an autobiography but one may consult Louise Watson (1976) on Annie Buller. Unfortunately the relevant writings are considered taboo in some Western countries. What strikes me as discordant is that the Indian version of the MLBD Newsletter, April 2014 does not have any advertisement on the Mein Kampf. It is necessary to assert if the MLBD authorities in India are aware of its appearance in the UK. I enquired but have not yet got a reply. But there are neo-Nazis in the West. Another point. There are quite a few in the book business who promote the Mein Kampf. They are of course, free to do so. But List members and their organizations shoiuld be careful of Amazon etc. Best wishes and greetings. On Sun, May 18, 2014 at 10:51 PM, Jan E.M. Houben wrote: > Dear list members, > An indological publisher claiming to be a "leading Indian publishing > house on Sanskrit and Indology" and the first to win a Padma award for > outstanding community service through publishing (accorded to Shantilal > Jain in 1992), has a scientific reputation which it can choose to maintain > or throw away. > To decide to add an isolated non-indological book to the indological and > new age books published and marketed world-wide is a free choice and it > makes a free statement. > Especially if this isolated non-indological book happens to be Mein Kampf > (already widely available and widely read in India since 1928) -- rather > than giving the word to real heroes of the period such as Anne Frank ( > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Diary_of_a_Young_Girl) or the > non-violent resistance group the White Rose ( > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_Rose). > Although it contains many unverified points "(citation needed)", it may be > instructive to have a look at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mein_Kampf > and associated references to > http://jungle-world.com/artikel/2013/33/48296.html > http://rt.com/news/mein-kampf-sales-india/ > Mein Kampf may be tucked away toward the bottom of p. 10 of MLBD > Newsletter vol. XXXVI No. 4 (April 2014), it appears most prominently on > the Motilal homepage where it cannot be missed: http://www.mlbd.com/. > Jan Houben > > > > > On 18 May 2014 10:54, Veeranarayana Pandurangi wrote: > >> Dear list members >> >> I dont understand the hues and cries in this list which is mainly a forum >> for indology on availability of hitlars book on MLBD. >> >> Off course I am neither against your decision to cut ties with MLBD (it >> is your decision anyway) nor a fan of hitler. >> hitler has nothing to do in india. there are more national heroes in >> india to follow. >> >> this book is available virtuallly in every nook and corner of the world, >> freely on WWW http://www.angelfire.com/folk/bigbaldbob88/MeinKampf.pdf, >> http://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/mein-kampf-official-nazi-translation-adolf-hitler/1016335572?ean=9780977476091 and >> even on amzon >> http://www.amazon.com/Mein-Kampf-Deutsch-Sprache-ungek%C3%BCrzte/dp/1480191353 >> >> all these editions must be pirated one as it is still in copyright. >> >> what is the crime of MLBD if it publishes it for scholarly use just like >> it is sold on many booksellers cited above. >> >> more over MLBD is free institute to publish anything they want. there is >> no need of justification. this book is not banned even in Germany >> according to http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-17837325 Mein Kampf: >> Bavaria plans first German publication since WWII. >> >> "The book is not banned by law in Germany, but Bavaria has used ownership >> of the copyright to prevent publication of German editions since 1945." >> >> >> >> >> On Sun, May 18, 2014 at 3:45 AM, Jan E.M. Houben wrote: >> >>> MLBD and its "New Age" wing should withdraw the book OR be boycotted by >>> authors, readers and conferences. >>> A longer description is found on: >>> http://www.mlbd.com/BookDecription.aspx?id=18815 >>> where we also learn that the book is in English (no translator's name is >>> given), that its Territory is "Available For Sale Worldwide", and that the >>> book "will give you an insight into one of the greatest evil geniuses of >>> the last century". >>> "About the book" contains no justification (attempt) why a scientific >>> indological or new age publisher should publish this book. >>> Jan Houben >>> >>> >>> On 16 May 2014 15:40, wrote: >>> >>>> New Age Books is an associate of Motilal Banarsidass ( >>>> mlbd.com/contactus.aspx). The website of the former ( >>>> newagebooksindia.com) leads directly to the website of the latter ( >>>> mlbd.com). >>>> >>>> Best, >>>> Jacob >>>> >>>> Toke Knudsen skrev den 2014-05-16 15:30: >>>> >>>> Looking up the ISBN number of the book, it appears that it was >>>>> published by New Age Books on 1/1/2014; see >>>>> . >>>>> >>>>> All best, >>>>> Toke >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On May 16, 2014, at 9:17 AM, Matthew Kapstein >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Pirated or not, Mein Kampf has been a regular fixture of >>>>>> street-corner and railway station booksellers in India for decades. I >>>>>> recall it all over the place even during my first visit to India in 1970. >>>>>> What is surprising is >>>>>> to see a "respectable" publisher dealing with it. This is why I >>>>>> wanted to know whether MLBD has >>>>>> actually published it, or whether it appears only in their >>>>>> distribution list. In the latter case, higher >>>>>> management might not be at all responsible, though this would >>>>>> certainly be a great oversight >>>>>> on their part. >>>>>> >>>>>> In any case, it seems to me to be necessary to determine just what >>>>>> MLBD is doing with this, and >>>>>> then to make known to them that the Indological community (many of us >>>>>> at least) consider this >>>>>> to be unacceptable and that we will recommend that our libraries stop >>>>>> dealing with them if >>>>>> they are indeed committed to publishiing or distributing this >>>>>> particular item. I imagine that >>>>>> such a move would get their attention in a hurry. >>>>>> >>>>>> And, if they have indeed published it, I think we should insist very >>>>>> publically (e.g. in an op ed in >>>>>> The Times of India or The Hindu) that they have the thing "pulped." >>>>>> >>>>>> There's not much we can do about the fly-by-night publishers, but >>>>>> MLBD should know better. >>>>>> >>>>>> best to all, >>>>>> Matthew >>>>>> >>>>>> Matthew Kapstein >>>>>> Directeur d'?tudes, >>>>>> Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes >>>>>> >>>>>> Numata Visiting Professor of Buddhist Studies, >>>>>> The University of Chicago >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> INDOLOGY mailing list >>>>>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info >>>>>> http://listinfo.indology.info >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> INDOLOGY mailing list >>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info >>> http://listinfo.indology.info >>> >> >> >> >> -- >> Veeranarayana N.K. Pandurangi >> Faculty of Vedantas >> Karnakata Samskrita University, >> Chamarajendra Samskrit College >> Chamarajpet, Bengaluru. >> >> >> ?? ??????????? ??????? ???????? ? ????????? ??? ???????? ??????? ? ?????? >> ??????????????? >> ?????????????? ??????? ??????? ??????????? ??????????????? ?????? >> ???????? ??????????? (?.??.) >> >> http://www.ksu.ac.in >> http://jrrsanskrituniversity.ac.in/ >> http://jrrsanskrituniversity.ac.in/acd1.asp >> https://groups.google.com/forum/?hl=en&fromgroups#!forum/bvparishat >> >> _______________________________________________ >> INDOLOGY mailing list >> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info >> http://listinfo.indology.info >> > > > > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > http://listinfo.indology.info > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dipak.d2004 at gmail.com Mon May 19 03:36:37 2014 From: dipak.d2004 at gmail.com (Dipak Bhattacharya) Date: Mon, 19 May 14 09:06:37 +0530 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Fwd: Hitler and MLBD In-Reply-To: Message-ID: A post-script to my already sent mail I noted that a mail had intervened between Professor Houben's and mine. But I had referred to Professor Houben's. The next one had not reached the lIst till then Best DB On Sun, May 18, 2014 at 3:45 AM, Jan E.M. Houben wrote: > MLBD and its "New Age" wing should withdraw the book OR be boycotted by > authors, readers and conferences. > A longer description is found on: > http://www.mlbd.com/BookDecription.aspx?id=18815 > where we also learn that the book is in English (no translator's name is > given), that its Territory is "Available For Sale Worldwide", and that the > book "will give you an insight into one of the greatest evil geniuses of > the last century". > "About the book" contains no justification (attempt) why a scientific > indological or new age publisher should publish this book. > Jan Houben > > > On 16 May 2014 15:40, wrote: > >> New Age Books is an associate of Motilal Banarsidass ( >> mlbd.com/contactus.aspx). The website of the former (newagebooksindia.com) >> leads directly to the website of the latter (mlbd.com). >> >> Best, >> Jacob >> >> Toke Knudsen skrev den 2014-05-16 15:30: >> >> Looking up the ISBN number of the book, it appears that it was >>> published by New Age Books on 1/1/2014; see >>> . >>> >>> All best, >>> Toke >>> >>> >>> >>> On May 16, 2014, at 9:17 AM, Matthew Kapstein >>> wrote: >>> >>> Pirated or not, Mein Kampf has been a regular fixture of street-corner >>>> and railway station booksellers in India for decades. I recall it all over >>>> the place even during my first visit to India in 1970. What is surprising is >>>> to see a "respectable" publisher dealing with it. This is why I wanted >>>> to know whether MLBD has >>>> actually published it, or whether it appears only in their distribution >>>> list. In the latter case, higher >>>> management might not be at all responsible, though this would certainly >>>> be a great oversight >>>> on their part. >>>> >>>> In any case, it seems to me to be necessary to determine just what MLBD >>>> is doing with this, and >>>> then to make known to them that the Indological community (many of us >>>> at least) consider this >>>> to be unacceptable and that we will recommend that our libraries stop >>>> dealing with them if >>>> they are indeed committed to publishiing or distributing this >>>> particular item. I imagine that >>>> such a move would get their attention in a hurry. >>>> >>>> And, if they have indeed published it, I think we should insist very >>>> publically (e.g. in an op ed in >>>> The Times of India or The Hindu) that they have the thing "pulped." >>>> >>>> There's not much we can do about the fly-by-night publishers, but MLBD >>>> should know better. >>>> >>>> best to all, >>>> Matthew >>>> >>>> Matthew Kapstein >>>> Directeur d'?tudes, >>>> Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes >>>> >>>> Numata Visiting Professor of Buddhist Studies, >>>> The University of Chicago >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> INDOLOGY mailing list >>>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info >>>> http://listinfo.indology.info >>>> >>> >>> > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > http://listinfo.indology.info > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ugg-5 at spro.net Mon May 19 04:57:04 2014 From: ugg-5 at spro.net (Jo) Date: Sun, 18 May 14 22:57:04 -0600 Subject: [INDOLOGY] [tlc] L-Anantha Publishing--books on Buddhism in/and Laos Message-ID: <001a01cf731e$c7d4d120$577e7360$@spro.net> X-posted from the tlc list, in case of interest here. Joanna Kirkpatrick -----Original Message----- From: rels-tlc-bounces at groups.sas.upenn.edu [mailto:rels-tlc-bounces at groups.sas.upenn.edu] On Behalf Of Larry Ashmun Sent: Sunday, May 18, 2014 5:57 PM To: rels-tlc at groups.sas.upenn.edu Subject: [tlc] L-Anantha Publishing's books This company features books on Buddhism and Laos, mostly by Hans Georg Berger. http://ananthabooks.com/current.htm Larry Ashmun U. of Wisconsin-Madison _______________________________________________ Rels-tlc mailing list Rels-tlc at groups.sas.upenn.edu https://groups.sas.upenn.edu/mailman/listinfo/rels-tlc From shrinsaha at gmail.com Mon May 19 05:38:58 2014 From: shrinsaha at gmail.com (Niranjan Saha) Date: Mon, 19 May 14 11:08:58 +0530 Subject: [INDOLOGY] MAnasollAsa In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Dear All, Thank you for the information. Being a student of Indian Philosophy, Vedanta etc., I was stuck with the title of Sureshvara only. Sincerely, Niranjan Saha, PhD Candidate, SoR, SOAS, London Univ. On Fri, May 16, 2014 at 12:07 PM, Jesse Knutson wrote: > I suspect that Professor Jha is talking about a different M?nasoll?sa, > i.e. the one listed below (and I am not sure if there is any English > translation of the whole or part of it): > > Ma?nasolla?sa of King Bhu?lokamalla Somes?vara > > - Author: > Somes?vara Chalukya Emperor, active 12th century. > > - Title: > Ma?nasolla?sa of King Bhu?lokamalla Somes?vara / edited by G.K. > Shrigondekar. > - Edition: > 2nd ed. > - Publisher: > Baroda : Oriental Institute, 1967- > - Description: > volumes ; 25 cm. > - Series: > Government of India Sanskrit book reprint series > Gaekwad's oriental series ; 28. > - Subjects: > Education of princes. > > Education of princes. > > India. > > - Genre/Form: > Early works. > > - Other Name(s): > Shrigondekar, G. K. (Gajanan Kusaba) > > - Notes: > In Sanskrit; introduction in English. > Half title in Sanskrit: Ma?nasolla?sah?. > Reprint. Originally published: Baroda : Central Library, 1925- > (Gaekwad's oriental series ; no. 28). With new foreword. > Equally well-known as the Abhilas?ita?rthacinta?man?i. > - Related Title added entry: > Abhilas?ita?rthacinta?man?i. > - Summary/Abstract: > On princes education in ancient India. > - > - > > > > On Thu, May 15, 2014 at 8:17 PM, Niranjan Saha wrote: > >> Dear Professor Jha, >> >> Namaskar! You may list out the following translations of the Manaollasa. >> >> 1. Dakshinamurtistotra of Sri Sankaracharya and Dakshinamurti Upanishad >> with Sureswaracharya's Manasolla and Pranava Vartika, texts and >> translations in English by Alladi Mahadeva Sastry, Samata Books, Chennai, >> 2001, Rs 150 (samatabooks at gmail.com). >> >> 2. Dakshinamurti Stotra with Manasollasa, texts and translation in >> English by Swami Harshananda, Ramakrishna Math, Bangalore, 1999, Rs 35 >> >> 3. Sridakshinamurtistotram (A Study based on the Manasollasa and >> Tattvasudha) by D.S.Subbaramaiya (out of print, vols.1-2, Dakshinamnaya Sri >> Sarada Peetham, 1990; photostat copy may be available on request to >> srinivasan.rbi at gmail.com). >> >> Sincerely, >> Niranjan Saha, Kolkata 67 >> >> >> On Thu, May 15, 2014 at 9:26 AM, Dn Jha wrote: >> >>> Dear List, >>> Can any one direct me to a good English translation of MAnasollAsa? >>> Gratefully, >>> DNJ >>> -- >>> -- >>> D N Jha >>> Professor of History (retired), >>> University of Delhi >>> 9, Uttaranchal Apartments >>> 5, I.P. Extension, Delhi 110 092 >>> Tel: + 2277 1049 >>> Cell: 98111 43090 >>> jdnarayan at gmail.com >>> dnjha72 at gmail.com >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> INDOLOGY mailing list >>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info >>> http://listinfo.indology.info >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> INDOLOGY mailing list >> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info >> http://listinfo.indology.info >> > > > > -- > Jesse Ross Knutson PhD > Assistant Professor of Sanskrit and Bengali, Department of Indo-Pacific > Languages and Literatures > University of Hawai'i at M?noa > 452A Spalding > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From venetia.ansell at gmail.com Mon May 19 09:14:37 2014 From: venetia.ansell at gmail.com (Venetia Kotamraju) Date: Mon, 19 May 14 10:14:37 +0100 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Hindu Kings In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Sorry to reply so late but the madhura vijaya of gangadevi (who was a vijayanagara princess) has lots of potential material. On 29 Apr 2014 15:20, "George Hart" wrote: > Take a look at the ?muktam?lyada ( > http://www.amazon.com/Giver-Worn-Garland-KRISHNADEVARAYAS-AMUKTAMALYADA-ebook/dp/B008ET4CDU/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1398780659&sr=8-1&keywords=amuktamalyada). > It?s one of the greatest works, if not the greatest work, in old Telugu, > and has a lot of information about ruling. Srini Reddy?s translation is > wonderful. George Hart > > On Apr 29, 2014, at 5:11 AM, Harsha Dehejia > wrote: > > Friends~ > > I am writing about the luxuriant and opulent life styles of Hindu kings. I > have an account of Colonel Todd about Raja Sansar Chand of Kangra. Does > anyone have something written or a reference to the personal life style or > courtly life style of Chola or Vijaynagar or any other dynastic kings? > > Kind regards. > > Harsha. > Prof. Harsha V. Dehejia > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > http://listinfo.indology.info > > > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > http://listinfo.indology.info > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From wujastyk at gmail.com Mon May 19 09:37:08 2014 From: wujastyk at gmail.com (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Mon, 19 May 14 11:37:08 +0200 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Hitler and MLBD In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Yesterday I wrote to MLDB, protesting about their publication of Mein Kampf. My letter is open, and I've posted a copyto one of my blogs. Dominik Wujastyk On 15 May 2014 19:54, Dominik Wujastyk wrote: > I see from the April 2014 issue of the MLBD Newsletter that MLBD is > bringing out an edition of *Mein Kampf *by Adolph Hitlar (sic). It > nestles incongruously between Alonso on the Mahabharata and the Black on > the Upanisads. > > > ? > > This was a shock! My immediate reaction was that I wish furiously to > sever all links with MLBD. I have already written to Penguin Delhi, asking > to withdraw my book from them because of their scandalous pulping of > Doniger's book. Now MLDB is publishing "Hitlar." Has Indian publishing > gone completely mad? > > My second reaction was, it's not wrong to publish even Hitlar's writings, > because how else can interested people find out how misguided he was, and > how else can historians combat his ideas. Free speech and all that. > > But my final conclusion is that this is indeed completely inappropriate > because MLBD presents itself as an Indological publisher, and *Mein Kampf*isn't even remotely connected with serious Indology. Even participants in > the "Indology under National Socialism" debate don't really need a new > edition of *Kampf*, surely. > > I shall therefore be writing to MLBD in protest in the strongest terms > about this pubication. I urge all my colleagues to do the same. If > someone wants to set up a petition, I'll gladly sign it. > > Best, > Dominik Wujastyk > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: IMG_20140515_193801.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 1164917 bytes Desc: not available URL: From vjroebuck at btinternet.com Mon May 19 09:45:53 2014 From: vjroebuck at btinternet.com (Valerie J Roebuck) Date: Mon, 19 May 14 10:45:53 +0100 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Hitler and MLBD In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <55AB1972-0FF2-4951-B9CC-A7D02CFB2C68@btinternet.com> Well done, Dominik. Valerie J Roebuck Manchester, UK On 19 May 2014, at 10:37, Dominik Wujastyk wrote: > Yesterday I wrote to MLDB, protesting about their publication of Mein Kampf. My letter is open, and I've posted a copy to one of my blogs. > > > Dominik Wujastyk > > > > On 15 May 2014 19:54, Dominik Wujastyk wrote: > I see from the April 2014 issue of the MLBD Newsletter that MLBD is bringing out an edition of Mein Kampf by Adolph Hitlar (sic). It nestles incongruously between Alonso on the Mahabharata and the Black on the Upanisads. > > > ? > > This was a shock! My immediate reaction was that I wish furiously to sever all links with MLBD. I have already written to Penguin Delhi, asking to withdraw my book from them because of their scandalous pulping of Doniger's book. Now MLDB is publishing "Hitlar." Has Indian publishing gone completely mad? > > My second reaction was, it's not wrong to publish even Hitlar's writings, because how else can interested people find out how misguided he was, and how else can historians combat his ideas. Free speech and all that. > > But my final conclusion is that this is indeed completely inappropriate because MLBD presents itself as an Indological publisher, and Mein Kampf isn't even remotely connected with serious Indology. Even participants in the "Indology under National Socialism" debate don't really need a new edition of Kampf, surely. > > I shall therefore be writing to MLBD in protest in the strongest terms about this pubication. I urge all my colleagues to do the same. If someone wants to set up a petition, I'll gladly sign it. > > Best, > Dominik Wujastyk > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > http://listinfo.indology.info -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From d.plukker at inter.nl.net Mon May 19 11:06:17 2014 From: d.plukker at inter.nl.net (Dick Plukker) Date: Mon, 19 May 14 13:06:17 +0200 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Hitler and MLBD In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <5379E5A9.5020706@inter.nl.net> Thank you Dominik. I fully agree. Dick Plukker On 19-5-2014 11:37, Dominik Wujastyk wrote: > Yesterday I wrote to MLDB, protesting about their publication of Mein > Kampf. My letter is open, and I've posted a > copyto > one of my blogs. > > > Dominik Wujastyk > > From jemhouben at gmail.com Mon May 19 12:35:22 2014 From: jemhouben at gmail.com (Jan E.M. Houben) Date: Mon, 19 May 14 14:35:22 +0200 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Hitler and MLBD In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Dear Dominik, Thanks for this well-formulated and timely statement. To facilitate sharing and add momentum a Twitter link may be useful as suggested by Jean-Luc Chevillard (#MLBDcontroversy). On the other hand, it may not be very useful to go through the Times of India or the Hindu, as a topic related to Hitler's crimes against humanity cannot be expected to have any significant impact even on an educated Indian public (for background see the article link provided by Luis Gonzales-Reiman). I have noted the very easy and trivial use of the word "hitler" in various Indian languages where it seems to have become lexicalized in the sense of "severe person" (see also the occasional use of the term in well-known Bollywood films and the soap serial Hitler Didi http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hitler_Didi). Jan Houben On 19 May 2014 11:37, Dominik Wujastyk wrote: > Yesterday I wrote to MLDB, protesting about their publication of Mein > Kampf. My letter is open, and I've posted a copyto one of my blogs. > > > Dominik Wujastyk > > > > On 15 May 2014 19:54, Dominik Wujastyk wrote: > >> I see from the April 2014 issue of the MLBD Newsletter that MLBD is >> bringing out an edition of *Mein Kampf *by Adolph Hitlar (sic). It >> nestles incongruously between Alonso on the Mahabharata and the Black on >> the Upanisads. >> >> >> ? >> >> This was a shock! My immediate reaction was that I wish furiously to >> sever all links with MLBD. I have already written to Penguin Delhi, asking >> to withdraw my book from them because of their scandalous pulping of >> Doniger's book. Now MLDB is publishing "Hitlar." Has Indian publishing >> gone completely mad? >> >> My second reaction was, it's not wrong to publish even Hitlar's writings, >> because how else can interested people find out how misguided he was, and >> how else can historians combat his ideas. Free speech and all that. >> >> But my final conclusion is that this is indeed completely inappropriate >> because MLBD presents itself as an Indological publisher, and *Mein >> Kampf* isn't even remotely connected with serious Indology. Even >> participants in the "Indology under National Socialism" debate don't really >> need a new edition of *Kampf*, surely. >> >> I shall therefore be writing to MLBD in protest in the strongest terms >> about this pubication. I urge all my colleagues to do the same. If >> someone wants to set up a petition, I'll gladly sign it. >> >> Best, >> Dominik Wujastyk >> > > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > http://listinfo.indology.info > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: IMG_20140515_193801.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 1164917 bytes Desc: not available URL: From jean-luc.chevillard at univ-paris-diderot.fr Mon May 19 12:51:24 2014 From: jean-luc.chevillard at univ-paris-diderot.fr (Jean-Luc Chevillard) Date: Mon, 19 May 14 14:51:24 +0200 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Fwd: Hitler and MLBD In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <5379FE4C.3030208@univ-paris-diderot.fr> Dear Veeranarayana Pandurangi, leaving aside for the time being the "MLBD controversy", I wish to draw your attention on the fact that many of the members of this list are from Europe and that for 99% of the inhabitants of Europe, Hitler is not a "hero" (or a "national hero") but a *monster*, which is why the choice of words in your statement (reproduced below) probably appears to many as "maladroit" (I am at a loss for words if I do not use my mother tongue, which is French, as you know) We are told as children, at school, about what happened during the Holocaust and for many a European child it is a traumatic experience, to hear about this segment of the past. I remember having nightmares when I was 12 or 13, after being told at school about that episode in European history Although the INDOLOGY mailing list has mostly for its topic CLASSICAL INDIA, India is not the only country in the world and the very strong TABOO that exist (and for good reason) in other countries or continents must not be forgotten. You are more likely to reach an understanding with your fellow human beings (who share professional interests with you) if you avoid expressions such as "national heroes". Kindly understand that I am not criticizing you but only trying to help you understanding the sensitivities of those who grew up under circumstances different from the ones you grew under Yours with every good wish -- Jean-Luc Chevillard (Paris-Pondicherry-Hamburg) [currently in Paris] "https://twitter.com/JLC1956" On 18/05/2014 10:54, Veeranarayana Pandurangi wrote: > I am neither against your decision to cut ties with MLBD (it is your > decision anyway) nor a fan of hitler. > hitler has nothing to do in india. there are more national heroes in > india to follow. From mnstorm at mac.com Mon May 19 13:15:16 2014 From: mnstorm at mac.com (Mary Storm) Date: Mon, 19 May 14 18:45:16 +0530 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Hitler and MLBD In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Dear All, As a point of interest, do you know there used to be a small "Hitler Mandir" in Muzaffarnagar? A few years ago it was removed to widen the road. Nicholas Goodrick-Clarke's book on Savitri Devi, might also be of interest to those wondering about the Subash Chandra Bose Hitler flirtation. Pretty crazy stuff. All Best, Mary Sent from my iPad > On 19-May-2014, at 6:05 pm, "Jan E.M. Houben" wrote: > > Dear Dominik, > Thanks for this well-formulated and timely statement. > To facilitate sharing and add momentum a Twitter link may be useful as suggested by Jean-Luc Chevillard (#MLBDcontroversy). > On the other hand, it may not be very useful to go through the Times of India or the Hindu, as a topic related to Hitler's crimes against humanity cannot be expected to have any significant impact even on an educated Indian public (for background see the article link provided by Luis Gonzales-Reiman). I have noted the very easy and trivial use of the word "hitler" in various Indian languages where it seems to have become lexicalized in the sense of "severe person" (see also the occasional use of the term in well-known Bollywood films and the soap serial Hitler Didi http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hitler_Didi). > Jan Houben > > On 19 May 2014 11:37, Dominik Wujastyk wrote: >> Yesterday I wrote to MLDB, protesting about their publication of Mein Kampf. My letter is open, and I've posted a copy to one of my blogs. >> >> >> Dominik Wujastyk >> >> >> >>> On 15 May 2014 19:54, Dominik Wujastyk wrote: >>> I see from the April 2014 issue of the MLBD Newsletter that MLBD is bringing out an edition of Mein Kampf by Adolph Hitlar (sic). It nestles incongruously between Alonso on the Mahabharata and the Black on the Upanisads. >>> >>> >>> ? >>> >>> This was a shock! My immediate reaction was that I wish furiously to sever all links with MLBD. I have already written to Penguin Delhi, asking to withdraw my book from them because of their scandalous pulping of Doniger's book. Now MLDB is publishing "Hitlar." Has Indian publishing gone completely mad? >>> >>> My second reaction was, it's not wrong to publish even Hitlar's writings, because how else can interested people find out how misguided he was, and how else can historians combat his ideas. Free speech and all that. >>> >>> But my final conclusion is that this is indeed completely inappropriate because MLBD presents itself as an Indological publisher, and Mein Kampf isn't even remotely connected with serious Indology. Even participants in the "Indology under National Socialism" debate don't really need a new edition of Kampf, surely. >>> >>> I shall therefore be writing to MLBD in protest in the strongest terms about this pubication. I urge all my colleagues to do the same. If someone wants to set up a petition, I'll gladly sign it. >>> >>> Best, >>> Dominik Wujastyk >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> INDOLOGY mailing list >> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info >> http://listinfo.indology.info > > > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > http://listinfo.indology.info -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jemhouben at gmail.com Mon May 19 13:29:38 2014 From: jemhouben at gmail.com (Jan E.M. Houben) Date: Mon, 19 May 14 15:29:38 +0200 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Fwd: Hitler and MLBD In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Does this suggest a conscious marketing strategy as the book is already widely and easily available in India? I guess their home-page (http://www.mlbd.com/) does feature the book even if you click on it in India? Jan Houben On 19 May 2014 04:47, Dipak Bhattacharya wrote: > > Dear Colleagues, > I am all praise for the noble sentiments expressed. We may, perhaps, also > add the name of Jeanne Corbin (France and Canada) among the fighters > against Hitler. She did not leave an autobiography but one may consult > Louise Watson (1976) on Annie Buller. Unfortunately the relevant writings > are considered taboo in some Western countries. > > What strikes me as discordant is that the Indian version of the MLBD > Newsletter, April 2014 does not have any advertisement on the Mein Kampf. > It is necessary to assert if the MLBD authorities in India are aware of its > appearance in the UK. I enquired but have not yet got a reply. But there > are neo-Nazis in the West. > Another point. There are quite a few in the book business who promote the > Mein Kampf. They are of course, free to do so. But List members and their > organizations shoiuld be careful of Amazon etc. > Best wishes and greetings. > > > > On Sun, May 18, 2014 at 10:51 PM, Jan E.M. Houben wrote: > >> Dear list members, >> An indological publisher claiming to be a "leading Indian publishing >> house on Sanskrit and Indology" and the first to win a Padma award for >> outstanding community service through publishing (accorded to Shantilal >> Jain in 1992), has a scientific reputation which it can choose to maintain >> or throw away. >> To decide to add an isolated non-indological book to the indological and >> new age books published and marketed world-wide is a free choice and it >> makes a free statement. >> Especially if this isolated non-indological book happens to be Mein Kampf >> (already widely available and widely read in India since 1928) -- rather >> than giving the word to real heroes of the period such as Anne Frank ( >> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Diary_of_a_Young_Girl) or the >> non-violent resistance group the White Rose ( >> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_Rose). >> Although it contains many unverified points "(citation needed)", it may >> be instructive to have a look at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mein_Kampf >> and associated references to >> http://jungle-world.com/artikel/2013/33/48296.html >> http://rt.com/news/mein-kampf-sales-india/ >> Mein Kampf may be tucked away toward the bottom of p. 10 of MLBD >> Newsletter vol. XXXVI No. 4 (April 2014), it appears most prominently on >> the Motilal homepage where it cannot be missed: http://www.mlbd.com/. >> Jan Houben >> >> >> >>>>> -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From karp at uw.edu.pl Mon May 19 13:50:34 2014 From: karp at uw.edu.pl (Artur Karp) Date: Mon, 19 May 14 15:50:34 +0200 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Hitler and MLBD In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Dear All, An Amazon-sold edition of "Mein Kampf" was published by Jaico, an Indian publishing house: http://www.amazon.co.uk/Mein-Kampf-Adolf-Hitler/dp/817224164X Regards, Artur Karp 2014-05-19 15:15 GMT+02:00 Mary Storm : > Dear All, > > As a point of interest, do you know there used to be a small "Hitler > Mandir" in Muzaffarnagar? A few years ago it was removed to widen the road. > > Nicholas Goodrick-Clarke's book on Savitri Devi, might also be of interest > to those wondering about the Subash Chandra Bose Hitler flirtation. Pretty > crazy stuff. > > All Best, > Mary > > Sent from my iPad > > On 19-May-2014, at 6:05 pm, "Jan E.M. Houben" wrote: > > Dear Dominik, > Thanks for this well-formulated and timely statement. > To facilitate sharing and add momentum a Twitter link may be useful as > suggested by Jean-Luc Chevillard (#MLBDcontroversy). > On the other hand, it may not be very useful to go through the Times of > India or the Hindu, as a topic related to Hitler's crimes against humanity > cannot be expected to have any significant impact even on an educated > Indian public (for background see the article link provided by Luis > Gonzales-Reiman). I have noted the very easy and trivial use of the word > "hitler" in various Indian languages where it seems to have become > lexicalized in the sense of "severe person" (see also the occasional use of > the term in well-known Bollywood films and the soap serial Hitler Didi > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hitler_Didi). > Jan Houben > > On 19 May 2014 11:37, Dominik Wujastyk wrote: > >> Yesterday I wrote to MLDB, protesting about their publication of Mein >> Kampf. My letter is open, and I've posted a copyto one of my blogs. >> >> >> Dominik Wujastyk >> >> >> >> On 15 May 2014 19:54, Dominik Wujastyk wrote: >> >>> I see from the April 2014 issue of the MLBD Newsletter that MLBD is >>> bringing out an edition of *Mein Kampf *by Adolph Hitlar (sic). It >>> nestles incongruously between Alonso on the Mahabharata and the Black on >>> the Upanisads. >>> >>> >>> ? >>> >>> This was a shock! My immediate reaction was that I wish furiously to >>> sever all links with MLBD. I have already written to Penguin Delhi, asking >>> to withdraw my book from them because of their scandalous pulping of >>> Doniger's book. Now MLDB is publishing "Hitlar." Has Indian publishing >>> gone completely mad? >>> >>> My second reaction was, it's not wrong to publish even Hitlar's >>> writings, because how else can interested people find out how misguided he >>> was, and how else can historians combat his ideas. Free speech and all >>> that. >>> >>> But my final conclusion is that this is indeed completely inappropriate >>> because MLBD presents itself as an Indological publisher, and *Mein >>> Kampf* isn't even remotely connected with serious Indology. Even >>> participants in the "Indology under National Socialism" debate don't really >>> need a new edition of *Kampf*, surely. >>> >>> I shall therefore be writing to MLBD in protest in the strongest terms >>> about this pubication. I urge all my colleagues to do the same. If >>> someone wants to set up a petition, I'll gladly sign it. >>> >>> Best, >>> Dominik Wujastyk >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> INDOLOGY mailing list >> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info >> http://listinfo.indology.info >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > http://listinfo.indology.info > > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > http://listinfo.indology.info > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From hermantull at gmail.com Mon May 19 14:36:31 2014 From: hermantull at gmail.com (Herman Tull) Date: Mon, 19 May 14 04:36:31 -1000 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Hitler and MLBD In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Thank you, Dominik, for your fine, thoughtful letter. It is a truly eloquent document. Herman Tull On May 18, 2014 11:38 PM, "Dominik Wujastyk" wrote: > Yesterday I wrote to MLDB, protesting about their publication of Mein > Kampf. My letter is open, and I've posted a copyto one of my blogs. > > > Dominik Wujastyk > > > > On 15 May 2014 19:54, Dominik Wujastyk wrote: > >> I see from the April 2014 issue of the MLBD Newsletter that MLBD is >> bringing out an edition of *Mein Kampf *by Adolph Hitlar (sic). It >> nestles incongruously between Alonso on the Mahabharata and the Black on >> the Upanisads. >> >> >> ? >> >> This was a shock! My immediate reaction was that I wish furiously to >> sever all links with MLBD. I have already written to Penguin Delhi, asking >> to withdraw my book from them because of their scandalous pulping of >> Doniger's book. Now MLDB is publishing "Hitlar." Has Indian publishing >> gone completely mad? >> >> My second reaction was, it's not wrong to publish even Hitlar's writings, >> because how else can interested people find out how misguided he was, and >> how else can historians combat his ideas. Free speech and all that. >> >> But my final conclusion is that this is indeed completely inappropriate >> because MLBD presents itself as an Indological publisher, and *Mein >> Kampf* isn't even remotely connected with serious Indology. Even >> participants in the "Indology under National Socialism" debate don't really >> need a new edition of *Kampf*, surely. >> >> I shall therefore be writing to MLBD in protest in the strongest terms >> about this pubication. I urge all my colleagues to do the same. If >> someone wants to set up a petition, I'll gladly sign it. >> >> Best, >> Dominik Wujastyk >> > > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > http://listinfo.indology.info > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: IMG_20140515_193801.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 1164917 bytes Desc: not available URL: From dipak.d2004 at gmail.com Mon May 19 15:11:50 2014 From: dipak.d2004 at gmail.com (Dipak Bhattacharya) Date: Mon, 19 May 14 20:41:50 +0530 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Fwd: Fw: MLBD In-Reply-To: <1400511879.68407.YahooMailNeo@web193502.mail.sg3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: I received the following mail from a retired Professor of the University of Calcutta. A student of D.P.Chattopadhyay, he was a Professor of English language and literature and at present devotes himself to the study of the Caarvaakas and Lokayatas Best DB ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Dipak Bhattacharya Date: Mon, May 19, 2014 at 8:34 PM Subject: Fw: MLBD To: "Dipak.d2004 at gmail.com" On Monday, 19 May 2014 5:21 PM, ramkrishna bhattacharya < purandara12 at rediffmail.com> wrote: DEAR PROFESSOR, IF THE ALLEGATION PROVES CORRECT, I'M PREPARED TO BOYCOTT MLBD. IF A PROTEST IS TO BE MADE, DO INCLUDE MY NAME. RAMKRISHNA Ramkrishna Bhattacharya 3 Mohanlal Street Kolkata 700004 Phone No. 033-2555-1288 Get your own *FREE* website, *FREE* domain & *FREE* mobile app with Company email. *Know More >* -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From gthomgt at gmail.com Mon May 19 15:48:40 2014 From: gthomgt at gmail.com (George Thompson) Date: Mon, 19 May 14 11:48:40 -0400 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Hitler and MLBD In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I too would like to thank Dominik for his efforts in this matter. George On Mon, May 19, 2014 at 11:47 AM, George Thompson wrote: > I too would like to thank Dominik for his efforts in this matter. > > George > > > On Mon, May 19, 2014 at 10:36 AM, Herman Tull wrote: > >> Thank you, Dominik, for your fine, thoughtful letter. It is a truly >> eloquent document. >> >> Herman Tull >> On May 18, 2014 11:38 PM, "Dominik Wujastyk" wrote: >> >>> Yesterday I wrote to MLDB, protesting about their publication of Mein >>> Kampf. My letter is open, and I've posted a copyto one of my blogs. >>> >>> >>> Dominik Wujastyk >>> >>> >>> >>> On 15 May 2014 19:54, Dominik Wujastyk wrote: >>> >>>> I see from the April 2014 issue of the MLBD Newsletter that MLBD is >>>> bringing out an edition of *Mein Kampf *by Adolph Hitlar (sic). It >>>> nestles incongruously between Alonso on the Mahabharata and the Black on >>>> the Upanisads. >>>> >>>> >>>> ? >>>> >>>> This was a shock! My immediate reaction was that I wish furiously to >>>> sever all links with MLBD. I have already written to Penguin Delhi, asking >>>> to withdraw my book from them because of their scandalous pulping of >>>> Doniger's book. Now MLDB is publishing "Hitlar." Has Indian publishing >>>> gone completely mad? >>>> >>>> My second reaction was, it's not wrong to publish even Hitlar's >>>> writings, because how else can interested people find out how misguided he >>>> was, and how else can historians combat his ideas. Free speech and all >>>> that. >>>> >>>> But my final conclusion is that this is indeed completely inappropriate >>>> because MLBD presents itself as an Indological publisher, and *Mein >>>> Kampf* isn't even remotely connected with serious Indology. Even >>>> participants in the "Indology under National Socialism" debate don't really >>>> need a new edition of *Kampf*, surely. >>>> >>>> I shall therefore be writing to MLBD in protest in the strongest terms >>>> about this pubication. I urge all my colleagues to do the same. If >>>> someone wants to set up a petition, I'll gladly sign it. >>>> >>>> Best, >>>> Dominik Wujastyk >>>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> INDOLOGY mailing list >>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info >>> http://listinfo.indology.info >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> INDOLOGY mailing list >> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info >> http://listinfo.indology.info >> > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: IMG_20140515_193801.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 1164917 bytes Desc: not available URL: From jemhouben at gmail.com Mon May 19 15:54:01 2014 From: jemhouben at gmail.com (Jan E.M. Houben) Date: Mon, 19 May 14 17:54:01 +0200 Subject: [INDOLOGY] AIT. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Dear Dr Chakrabarti, Thanks for this link: let there be research on gene pools and genetic lineages from every perspective, including the modern Indian one. The Error was (19th cent and nazi-time Aryan Invasion Theory) and is (Out-of-India-Theory) to think that GENETICS (and racial theories) can provide explanations in cultural questions in history, such as the well-attested spread of vedism between 1500 BCE (north-west of Indian subcontinent) and 1500 AD (throughout Indian subcontinent). Many scholars have remained unconvinced and unhappy with explanations in these terms from the beginning, innumerable are those who suffered from attempts to base state implemented policies on these theories but scientific 'truth' is 'truth' and in the absence of any other explanation ... As I have been arguing in several studies, however, in our understanding of the phenomenon of the spread of vedism GENETICS need not be invoked at all as a crucial factor as it is to be understood rather in terms of MEMETICS and MEMORY CULTURE taking into account vedism's interaction over centuries with its ecological and economic environment (for instance http://halshs.archives-ouvertes.fr/halshs-00673190). Worries about genetic lineage became obsessively important only secondarily in the last or K-strategist (niche-exploitation) phase of vedism reflected in a relatively late work such as Manu (on Hitler and Manu see Halbfass India and Europe p 139). Best regards, Jan Houben On 11 May 2014 16:51, Dr. Debabrata Chakrabarti wrote: > > Dear Friends, > Please see the following link to read a report on Aryan Invasion Theory: > http://www.sanskritimagazine.com/culture/aryan-invasion-is-a-proven-lie/ > > Regards > Debabrata Chakrabarti > > > > > > > ?This body is like a musical instrument; what you hear depends upon how > you play it.? ? Anandamayi Ma > > ?Inside every human being there exists a special heaven, whole and > unbroken.? - Paracelsus > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > http://listinfo.indology.info > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ionut.moise at wolfson.ox.ac.uk Mon May 19 16:02:55 2014 From: ionut.moise at wolfson.ox.ac.uk (Ionut Moise) Date: Mon, 19 May 14 16:02:55 +0000 Subject: [INDOLOGY] INDOLOGY Digest, Vol 16, Issue 19 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <21DDC2C12EBC824AAAA10E610467CDCB10A8DC@MBX06.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> PLEASE un-subscribe me from the list many thanks Ionut Moise ________________________________________ From: INDOLOGY [indology-bounces at list.indology.info] on behalf of indology-request at list.indology.info [indology-request at list.indology.info] Sent: 19 May 2014 17:00 To: indology at list.indology.info Subject: INDOLOGY Digest, Vol 16, Issue 19 Send INDOLOGY mailing list submissions to indology at list.indology.info To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://list.indology.info/mailman/listinfo/indology_list.indology.info or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to indology-request at list.indology.info You can reach the person managing the list at indology-owner at list.indology.info When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of INDOLOGY digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Fwd: Fw: MLBD (Dipak Bhattacharya) 2. Re: Hitler and MLBD (George Thompson) 3. Re: AIT. (Jan E.M. Houben) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Mon, 19 May 2014 20:41:50 +0530 From: Dipak Bhattacharya To: Indology Subject: [INDOLOGY] Fwd: Fw: MLBD Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" I received the following mail from a retired Professor of the University of Calcutta. A student of D.P.Chattopadhyay, he was a Professor of English language and literature and at present devotes himself to the study of the Caarvaakas and Lokayatas Best DB ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Dipak Bhattacharya Date: Mon, May 19, 2014 at 8:34 PM Subject: Fw: MLBD To: "Dipak.d2004 at gmail.com" On Monday, 19 May 2014 5:21 PM, ramkrishna bhattacharya < purandara12 at rediffmail.com> wrote: DEAR PROFESSOR, IF THE ALLEGATION PROVES CORRECT, I'M PREPARED TO BOYCOTT MLBD. IF A PROTEST IS TO BE MADE, DO INCLUDE MY NAME. RAMKRISHNA Ramkrishna Bhattacharya 3 Mohanlal Street Kolkata 700004 Phone No. 033-2555-1288 Get your own *FREE* website, *FREE* domain & *FREE* mobile app with Company email. *Know More >* From mkapstei at uchicago.edu Mon May 19 16:20:33 2014 From: mkapstei at uchicago.edu (Matthew Kapstein) Date: Mon, 19 May 14 16:20:33 +0000 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Hitler and MLBD In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <82C3E42590D939418C74DD76B97DDED01AF228A8@xm-mbx-04-prod.ad.uchicago.edu> Dear Dominik, Thank you for you well-crafted words. Do you think it might be possible to set something up so that those of us who might wish to associate ourselves as co-signatories can do so? all best, Matthew Matthew Kapstein Directeur d'?tudes, Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes Numata Visiting Professor of Buddhist Studies, The University of Chicago ________________________________________ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: IMG_20140515_193801.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 1164917 bytes Desc: not available URL: From dipak.d2004 at gmail.com Mon May 19 17:01:28 2014 From: dipak.d2004 at gmail.com (Dipak Bhattacharya) Date: Mon, 19 May 14 22:31:28 +0530 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Forwarded mail from R.K.Bhattacharya Message-ID: INDOLOGY at list.indology.info 19 05 14 Dear Friends, I received the following mail today. The correspondent, retired Professor of English at the University of Calcutta, was a student of D.P.Chattopadhyay and has devoted himself to the study of C?rv?ka and the lok?yatas. If this is being twice posted kindly ignore it. ?DEAR PROFESSOR, IF THE ALLEGATION PROVES CORRECT, I'M PREPARED TO BOYCOTT MLBD. IF A PROTEST IS TO BE MADE, DO INCLUDE MY NAME. RAMKRISHNA Ramkrishna Bhattacharya 3 Mohanlal Street Kolkata 700004 Phone No. 033-2555-1288? Best DB -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From gthomgt at gmail.com Mon May 19 20:42:29 2014 From: gthomgt at gmail.com (George Thompson) Date: Mon, 19 May 14 16:42:29 -0400 Subject: [INDOLOGY] RV translation Message-ID: Dear list, I just realized that my recent emails intended for the list have been going only to the individuals to whom I have been responding. I want to let you all know that there is also an edition of the recent RV translation by Jamison-Brereton that will be published in one volume at a more affordable price: US $ 65. According to US Books in Print this edition will be released next month. There will be a less expensive alternative to the $ 400 set next month. Best wishes, George -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jpo at uts.cc.utexas.edu Mon May 19 21:30:57 2014 From: jpo at uts.cc.utexas.edu (Patrick Olivelle) Date: Mon, 19 May 14 16:30:57 -0500 Subject: [INDOLOGY] RV translation In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <2D5048B3-280E-4A02-B27D-00C1C15F753A@uts.cc.utexas.edu> George: As I said on the RISA list, this is not true. We have checked with OUP and there is no edition of this book for $ 65!! Patrick On May 19, 2014, at 3:42 PM, George Thompson wrote: > Dear list, > I just realized that my recent emails intended for the list have been going only to the individuals to whom I have been responding. I want to let you all know that there is also an edition of the recent RV translation by Jamison-Brereton that will be published in one volume at a more affordable price: US $ 65. > > According to US Books in Print this edition will be released next month. > > There will be a less expensive alternative to the $ 400 set next month. > > Best wishes, > George > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > http://listinfo.indology.info From eastwestcultural at yahoo.com Tue May 20 03:12:26 2014 From: eastwestcultural at yahoo.com (Dean Michael Anderson) Date: Mon, 19 May 14 20:12:26 -0700 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Atharva Veda? Message-ID: <1400555546.4688.YahooMailNeo@web125306.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Congratulations to Joel and Stephanie on the release of the Rig Veda. I know they've been waiting for a long time for this -- as have we all. Now that the Rig Veda is out it's time to ask: is there any work being done on the Atharva Veda? Are there any new translations, perhaps only partial, or other scholarly analyses that can be recommended? Best, Dean -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From clemency.montelle at canterbury.ac.nz Tue May 20 09:28:20 2014 From: clemency.montelle at canterbury.ac.nz (Clemency Montelle) Date: Tue, 20 May 14 09:28:20 +0000 Subject: [INDOLOGY] PhD scholarship in history of Indian mathematical sciences, University of Canterbury New Zealand In-Reply-To: <373FE003EA3D2949BCC16219C67CBBF74F158738@UCEXMBX04-I.canterbury.ac.nz> Message-ID: <373FE003EA3D2949BCC16219C67CBBF74F158A15@UCEXMBX04-I.canterbury.ac.nz> Announcement of a PhD Scholarship in the History of Mathematical Sciences in India An international project on the history of mathematical sciences in Sanskrit sources has been awarded a five-year grant from New Zealand's funds for research excellence, the Rutherford Discovery Fellows, administered by the Royal Society of New Zealand. (http://www.royalsociety.org.nz/programmes/funds/rutherford-discovery/news/2012-rdfs) The 5-year project is entitled "New perspectives on the history of the exact sciences in second millennium Sanskrit sources". As part of the activities of this project, the investigators are offering a PhD scholarship jointly with the Chennai Mathematical Institute (CMI) in Chennai, India. The scholarship will provide an annual living allowance/stipend of NZ$25,000 and full tuition costs while in New Zealand and an allowance in Indian Rupees commensurate with living expenses while resident in India. It is tenable for study towards the degree of Doctor of Philosophy in the appropriate department or program on the topic of the history of mathematical sciences, at the University of Canterbury, Christchurch, New Zealand (http://www.canterbury.ac.nz/). The awardee will research and write a PhD thesis under a supervisory committee including the Principal Investigator, Dr Clemency Montelle, Associate Investigator, Dr Kim Plofker, and, where appropriate, scholars at associated institution(s). The thesis topic will relate to the project goals, e.g., a critical edition with translation and commentary of a previously unpublished text on Sanskrit computational astronomy. Approximately one-third of the study and research for the thesis will be carried out under the auspices of CMI, based on materials and training at CMI and/or neighbouring institutions. The successful applicant will meet the following criteria at the time of appointment: - sufficient knowledge of and interest in some combination of relevant fields of study, within history of the mathematical sciences and/or Indology, to design and complete under the supervisor's guidance a doctoral thesis relating to the project's objectives; - ability to enroll for a three-year PhD programme at the University of Canterbury. With the approval of the Principal Investigator, this position may be held concurrently with any other scholarship, award, or bursary, excluding any such award requiring teaching or other duties separate from this project. For further details, please consult the UC doctoral regulations. (http://www.canterbury.ac.nz/postgrad/phd_students/policies.shtml) How to Apply: Inquiries about the terms and scope of this scholarship are encouraged. Please contact us through the addresses given below. To apply, please send a cover letter briefly describing your relevant background and interests, a recent academic curriculum vitae, and the names and contact information of two references. Applications (PDF format preferable) should be sent by 14 July 2014 to be considered for enrollment beginning in early 2015. Dr Clemency Montelle (Principal Investigator) clemency.montelle at canterbury.ac.nz Department of Mathematics and Statistics University of Canterbury Christchurch, New Zealand Dr Kim Plofker (Associate Investigator) plofkerk at union.edu Department of Mathematics Union College Schenectady NY 12308, USA This email may be confidential and subject to legal privilege, it may not reflect the views of the University of Canterbury, and it is not guaranteed to be virus free. If you are not an intended recipient, please notify the sender immediately and erase all copies of the message and any attachments. Please refer to http://www.canterbury.ac.nz/emaildisclaimer for more information. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: HistMathscholarshipannounce-2014.pdf Type: application/pdf Size: 14810 bytes Desc: not available URL: From franceschini.marco at fastwebnet.it Tue May 20 09:28:39 2014 From: franceschini.marco at fastwebnet.it (Marco Franceschini) Date: Tue, 20 May 14 10:28:39 +0100 Subject: [INDOLOGY] year number without millennium Message-ID: <74C725FF-186A-4539-BC69-6A5472B08738@fastwebnet.it> Dear colleagues, some years ago there was a discussion on this list concerning the habit to state the Kollam year number without the thousands in Malayalam manuscripts (not inscriptions!). If I remember well, the topic was raised by Ken Zysk (I can?t access the list archive right now because of a "Bandwidth Limit Exceeded? error). My question is: do some of you know about any publication dealing with (or just referring to) this usage in any South Indian manuscript traditions (not only Malayalam)? Thank you very much in advance. Best wishes, Marco Franceschini --- -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From clemency.montelle at canterbury.ac.nz Tue May 20 09:29:11 2014 From: clemency.montelle at canterbury.ac.nz (Clemency Montelle) Date: Tue, 20 May 14 09:29:11 +0000 Subject: [INDOLOGY] International fellowship for historians of mathematics at Chennai Mathematical Institute Nov/Dec 2014 In-Reply-To: <373FE003EA3D2949BCC16219C67CBBF74F158750@UCEXMBX04-I.canterbury.ac.nz> Message-ID: <373FE003EA3D2949BCC16219C67CBBF74F158A21@UCEXMBX04-I.canterbury.ac.nz> Call for Proposals: RESEARCH FELLOWSHIPS at Chennai Mathematical Institute, India during the CMI History of Mathematics Season (17 November to 14 December 2014) The History of Astronomical and Mathematical Sciences in India (HAMSI) Working Group is dedicated to fostering and disseminating research in the history of Indian exact sciences (including astronomy, mathematics, and related subjects), and integrating it into the history of mathematics in general. Such research includes not only investigations of primary sources, such as editions, translations and/or technical commentaries of important works, but also surveys and thematic investigations (on subjects such as history of trigonometry or geocentric astronomy, for instance), overviews intended for nonspecialist and student audiences, and historiographical reviews. HAMSI is supported by a five-year grant from the Royal Society of New Zealand and is coordinated by its founding members Dr Clemency Montelle (School of Mathematics and Statistics, University of Canterbury, New Zealand) and Prof Kim Plofker (Department of Mathematics, Union College, NY, USA). To this end, HAMSI announces three research fellowships for visiting international scholars during the annual history of mathematics season at Chennai Mathematical Institute (CMI), Chennai, India, 17 November to 14 December 2014. CMI (http://www.cmi.ac.in) is a center of excellence for teaching and research in the mathematical sciences and is funded by both private and government sources with strong national and international scholarly networks. These fellowships are intended to support international researchers in the history of mathematical sciences who seek to increase their acquaintance with Indian developments in this field and their relation to scientific traditions elsewhere. Applicants' proposed plans of scholarship and/or study during the fellowship period must have some connection to the history of mathematical and/or astral sciences in India during any time period over the last two millennia. Researchers may come from any discipline: e.g., history, mathematics, history of mathematics, mathematics education, philosophy, history of science. The fundamental goal is to encourage researchers, primarily non-Indologists, to develop greater familiarity with Indic scientific traditions and help integrate new research about them into the study and teaching of history of mathematical/astral sciences in general outside India. Possible projects along these lines could include, but are not limited to, the following: a chapter on Indian mathematics as part of a general history of mathematics textbook; an article on the historical development of a particular mathematical technique or concept which includes a strong Indian component; examining the work of a particular Indian author in translation; acquiring some knowledge of Indic languages and/or scripts for the purpose of studying Indian exact sciences. The history of mathematics season will include lectures, seminars and minicourses with visiting scholars and students and will culminate in a conference with broader participation from historians of mathematics at other institutions in India and overseas. Drs Montelle and Plofker will be in residence at CMI during the fellowship period, and other faculty at CMI and other local libraries and research centers will also be at hand for guidance and advice. During their fellowship period, researchers will: - carry out their proposed research plan - give one 50min specialist seminar and/or run a short workshop for CMI students and faculty on any topic within history of mathematics - take part in a day-long workshop and the end-of-season conference Applications consisting of a one-page plan of proposed research and an academic CV should be sent in English to Dr Clemency Montelle by email (clemency.montelle at canterbury.ac.nz) by Monday, 30 June 2014. Please don't hesitate to contact us (clemency.montelle at canterbury.ac.nz, Kim_Plofker at alumni.brown.edu) with any questions. Dr Clemency Montelle http://www.math.canterbury.ac.nz/~c.montelle/ Department of Mathematics and Statistics University of Canterbury | Te Whare Wananga o Waitaha Private Bag 4800, Christchurch 8140 NEW ZEALAND ph +64 3 364 2267 fax +64 3 364 2587 This email may be confidential and subject to legal privilege, it may not reflect the views of the University of Canterbury, and it is not guaranteed to be virus free. If you are not an intended recipient, please notify the sender immediately and erase all copies of the message and any attachments. Please refer to http://www.canterbury.ac.nz/emaildisclaimer for more information. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: HistMathfellowships-2014.pdf Type: application/pdf Size: 16491 bytes Desc: not available URL: From wujastyk at gmail.com Tue May 20 10:40:06 2014 From: wujastyk at gmail.com (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Tue, 20 May 14 12:40:06 +0200 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Hitler and MLBD In-Reply-To: <82C3E42590D939418C74DD76B97DDED01AF228A8@xm-mbx-04-prod.ad.uchicago.edu> Message-ID: ?Some colleagues have asked for a way to associate themselves publicly with a protest to MLBD about their publication of Mein Kampf. ? ?I've started the public petition "Motilal Banarsidass, Indological Publishers in Delhi: Stop publishing and selling Hitler's Mein Kampf" and you can sign it if you wish to add your name to the initiative. Here's the link: - http://www.change.org /petitions/motilal-banarsidass-indological-publishers-in-delhi-stop-publishing-and-selling-hitler-s-mein-kampf Here's the statement, which is extracted from my open letter: Hitler's *Mein Kampf* is a racist, anti-Jewish diatribe that laid out his plans for racial sterilization. He carried out these plans after starting the Second World War and masterminding the industrialized murder of six million innocents. He murdered Jews, priests, gays, gypsies, and people with brown skin. History has judged Hitler as one of the greatest criminals of all time, a true monster. It has been established by many scholars and historians that Hitler's *Mein Kampf* was written with the express intent of promoting communal hatred and violence and with ?deliberate and malicious intention of outraging religious feelings.? The government of Bavaria, in agreement with the federal government of Germany, refuses to allow any copying or printing of the book in Germany, and opposes it also in other countries, because it promotes hatred and war. Publishing *Mein Kampf* is thus a criminal act under Sections 153A and 295A of the Indian Penal Code. Motilal Banarsidass (MLBD) has prided itself on its national and international identity as an Indological publisher. Now MLBD has decided to pollute its publication list with a book that is one of the world's most notorious books that deliberately promotes violence and death, a book that has nothing to do with Indology. We, the undersigned, call upon MLBD to withdraw Mein Kampf from publication. You can sign the petition by clicking here. The idea is that in about six weeks, this petition and its signatures will be emailed to MLBD. Best wishes Dominik Wujastyk ? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dipak.d2004 at gmail.com Tue May 20 12:07:58 2014 From: dipak.d2004 at gmail.com (Dipak Bhattacharya) Date: Tue, 20 May 14 17:37:58 +0530 Subject: [INDOLOGY] year number without millennium In-Reply-To: <74C725FF-186A-4539-BC69-6A5472B08738@fastwebnet.it> Message-ID: In ;saaradaa MS post-colophon statements the regnal year is mentioned without the century. This is well known and discussed Is this relevant to your question? Best DB On Tue, May 20, 2014 at 2:58 PM, Marco Franceschini < franceschini.marco at fastwebnet.it> wrote: > Dear colleagues, > > some years ago there was a discussion on this list concerning the habit to > state the Kollam year number without the thousands in Malayalam manuscripts > (not inscriptions!). If I remember well, the topic was raised by Ken Zysk (I > can?t access the list archive right now because of a "Bandwidth Limit > Exceeded? error). > > My question is: do some of you know about any publication dealing with (or > just referring to) this usage in any South Indian manuscript traditions > (not only Malayalam)? > > Thank you very much in advance. > > Best wishes, > > Marco Franceschini > --- > > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > http://listinfo.indology.info > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From zydenbos at uni-muenchen.de Tue May 20 13:50:37 2014 From: zydenbos at uni-muenchen.de (Robert Zydenbos) Date: Tue, 20 May 14 15:50:37 +0200 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Hitler and MLBD In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <537B5DAD.7070307@uni-muenchen.de> A view on this not really Indological matter from an Indologist in Munich, Bavaria (the historical starting place, which is why I regularly deal with such questions; again in class, last Monday). (Situation in Germany:) It is not true that the Government of Bavaria ?refuses to allow any copying or printing of the book in Germany? (sorry, Dominik, but the statement in your open letter is not quite accurate). In fact, the Bavarian government has subsidized a new, historically critical edition of the book by the Institut f?r Zeitgeschichte with an amount of half a million euros. In spite of support from many German Jews for this idea (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/08/12/german-jews-want-mein-kam_n_257937.html), the present chief minister of Bavaria suddenly announced, a few months ago, the stopping of a further subsidizing, apparently because of protests from certain other Jewish groups (which I consider foolish: both the protests as well as the interruption of the subsidy, and this stop has been criticized by oppositional left-wing political parties in the Bavarian parliament), but the editing work continues. For the latest details, see http://www.br.de/nachrichten/mein-kampf-hitler-100.html (Prohibition through exercise of copyright:) The Bavarian government has been quite selective in exercising its copyright to prohibit new editions of the book elsewhere. E.g., nothing has been undertaken against several editions in Israel (see https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mein_Kampf#Aktuelle_Rechtslage). (Availability and how to deal with it:) ?Mein Kampf? is freely available anyway, as has already been amply pointed out in this thread. The critical edition (see above; also an edition for schools is planned) is meant to counterbalance the surge of new editions that unavoidably will appear from 2015 onwards (http://www.deutschlandfunk.de/der-kampf-um-mein-kampf.724.de.html?dram:article_id=99882). If MLBD brings out an integral edition of the book (not historically critical, but at least complete; does it have an explanatory preface? Has anybody seen it?), then readers can judge for themselves just how dull and crazy it is. (How many of the prudishly politically correct critics in this thread have actually read it? I stopped reading it ? precisely because most of it is dull, and the rest is crazy in a not entertaining way.) This craziness may not be so visible if, in an uncontrolled manner, mere excerpts are published, which is not what MLBD has / had in mind. Furthermore, MLBD explicitly speaks / spoke of the author on its website as ?evil?, thus explicitly not endorsing the contents of the book (did anybody here see that? Or were we too busy being outraged?). (Commercialism:) MLBD is a commercial publisher and evidently has stopped being a purely academically Indological publisher at least for some time now (if ever they have been one). Already for years they have been bringing out books on all sorts of topics, many of which, in my view, are rather trashy. Is it really fair to be intercontinentally critical of them while their commercial competitors, like Jaico, are making money with it? Like Amazon and Barnes and Noble sell it? (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mein_Kampf#Online_availability) (Consistency:) If the overseas academic community cries out against the banning of books in India (Doniger, Ramanujan) in the name of freedom of expression, it looks odd that such people demand a ban on this old book for reasons which hardly any Indian understands (cf. for an illustration Veeranarayana Pandurangi?s characteristic post in this thread, last Sunday). (Effectiveness of protest:) Hitler?s book has already been popular in India for a long time, apparently esp. among Hindu nationalists (see ?Hitler als ?Management-Guru? in Indien? - http://www.20min.ch/ausland/news/story/29880511). It seems that India demands the right to make every mistake the West has made, from environmental destruction, turbo capitalism, nuclear armaments, to reading warped books. A mere loud condemnation of (just another) edition of Hitler?s book coming from the West is likely to be seen as yet another bit of neo-colonial holier-than-thou moralizing. What effectively is being said is ?Americans and Israelis should read the book, but it is too dangerous for you foolish Indians to have it?, and I do not think that any Indian wants to hear that. Banning a book has never stopped the spread of nefarious ideas anyway (only better books, open discussion and explanation do that), and if we make a fuss, it may only mean additional publicity for something that we do not want to see popularized. (Superfluousness:) For whatever reason, MLBD has apparently already taken down the offer from its website www.mlbd.com as of today (May 20, 2014). This may mean that this entire discussion, the open letter etc. are superfluous. (Or it may mean that only the online advertising has stopped, but not the production and sale. I do not know.) Because I believe protests to MLBD in this matter are unfair, discriminatory, ideologically ineffective, not Indological, at worst publicitywise counter-productive, and perhaps superfluous anyway, I will not sign the public petition. Robert Zydenbos -- Prof. Dr. Robert J. Zydenbos Institut f?r Indologie und Tibetologie Department f?r Asienstudien Ludwig-Maximilians-Universit?t M?nchen (LMU) From Joseph.Walser at tufts.edu Tue May 20 14:48:25 2014 From: Joseph.Walser at tufts.edu (Walser, Joseph) Date: Tue, 20 May 14 14:48:25 +0000 Subject: [INDOLOGY] In defense of MLBD Message-ID: I have been keeping silent for a while, largely because whenever scholars think they catch a whiff of anti-semitism, there inevitably follows a barrage of angry emails and I, like anyone else, would hate to be painted with that brush. But I have to agree with Robert. Furthermore, while I do understand that there are many benighted (and well-caffienated) souls out there who may order Mein Kampf for inspirational reading, do we as a scholarly community want to see works become unavailable simply because the work (or the author) promotes something horrific? What if I am writing an article on Nazi influences on Jakob Hauer's writings on yoga? Conceivably I might want to consult a copy of Mein Kampf and I might turn to MLBD to get a cheap copy. I suspect that most scholars who own a copy, bought it for scholarly purposes. If we as a scholarly community want to wipe the world clean of Nazi ideas, we enter a slippery slope that ends up not being very scholarly. Do we also boycott presses that publish Carl Schmitt's Political Theology (a demonically brilliant argument for the suspension of the Wiemar Constitution)? Do we boycott the works of (many) political theorists who use his ideas? What about Heidegger? On the other hand, if there are bozos out there who can stay awake through it enough to endorse Hitler's agenda, wouldn't it be helpful to have access to a copy? This thread started by pointing out the hypocrisy of Penguin pulping a work of indology while letting Mein Kampf be published. I get the irony. But what stared out as an observation has now become a movement to hurt a press that had nothing to do with the pulping of Wendy's book. If anybody cares to read the blurb for the book on the MLBD site, they will see that MLBD is NOT promoting the agenda of the book. Allow me to quote: Mein Kampf will give you an insight into one of the greatest evil geniuses of the last century; his political ideals, his beliefs and motivation, and his struggle to consolidate Germany into one great nation, and a Nazi-Third Reich. "The terror and the brutal treatment he unleashed during his years of power can be best said in his own words: ??Cruelty impresses, people want to be afraid of something. They want someone to whom they can submit with a shudder, the masses need that. They need something to dread?? "This great tyrant will go down in the history of the world. And all those who lived through the holocaust will shudder to think that such a man was ever born, and fervently wish that such a history would never repeat itself. " This is hardly a promotion of an anti-semitic agenda. Let's save our collective ire for folks that deserve it. I am sure I am going to get flamed for saying this, but somebody had to. -j Joseph Walser Associate Professor Department of Religion Tufts University ________________________________________ From: INDOLOGY [indology-bounces at list.indology.info] on behalf of Robert Zydenbos [zydenbos at uni-muenchen.de] Sent: Tuesday, May 20, 2014 9:50 AM To: Indology Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] Hitler and MLBD A view on this not really Indological matter from an Indologist in Munich, Bavaria (the historical starting place, which is why I regularly deal with such questions; again in class, last Monday). (Situation in Germany:) It is not true that the Government of Bavaria ?refuses to allow any copying or printing of the book in Germany? (sorry, Dominik, but the statement in your open letter is not quite accurate). In fact, the Bavarian government has subsidized a new, historically critical edition of the book by the Institut f?r Zeitgeschichte with an amount of half a million euros. In spite of support from many German Jews for this idea (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/08/12/german-jews-want-mein-kam_n_257937.html), the present chief minister of Bavaria suddenly announced, a few months ago, the stopping of a further subsidizing, apparently because of protests from certain other Jewish groups (which I consider foolish: both the protests as well as the interruption of the subsidy, and this stop has been criticized by oppositional left-wing political parties in the Bavarian parliament), but the editing work continues. For the latest details, see http://www.br.de/nachrichten/mein-kampf-hitler-100.html (Prohibition through exercise of copyright:) The Bavarian government has been quite selective in exercising its copyright to prohibit new editions of the book elsewhere. E.g., nothing has been undertaken against several editions in Israel (see https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mein_Kampf#Aktuelle_Rechtslage). (Availability and how to deal with it:) ?Mein Kampf? is freely available anyway, as has already been amply pointed out in this thread. The critical edition (see above; also an edition for schools is planned) is meant to counterbalance the surge of new editions that unavoidably will appear from 2015 onwards (http://www.deutschlandfunk.de/der-kampf-um-mein-kampf.724.de.html?dram:article_id=99882). If MLBD brings out an integral edition of the book (not historically critical, but at least complete; does it have an explanatory preface? Has anybody seen it?), then readers can judge for themselves just how dull and crazy it is. (How many of the prudishly politically correct critics in this thread have actually read it? I stopped reading it ? precisely because most of it is dull, and the rest is crazy in a not entertaining way.) This craziness may not be so visible if, in an uncontrolled manner, mere excerpts are published, which is not what MLBD has / had in mind. Furthermore, MLBD explicitly speaks / spoke of the author on its website as ?evil?, thus explicitly not endorsing the contents of the book (did anybody here see that? Or were we too busy being outraged?). (Commercialism:) MLBD is a commercial publisher and evidently has stopped being a purely academically Indological publisher at least for some time now (if ever they have been one). Already for years they have been bringing out books on all sorts of topics, many of which, in my view, are rather trashy. Is it really fair to be intercontinentally critical of them while their commercial competitors, like Jaico, are making money with it? Like Amazon and Barnes and Noble sell it? (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mein_Kampf#Online_availability) (Consistency:) If the overseas academic community cries out against the banning of books in India (Doniger, Ramanujan) in the name of freedom of expression, it looks odd that such people demand a ban on this old book for reasons which hardly any Indian understands (cf. for an illustration Veeranarayana Pandurangi?s characteristic post in this thread, last Sunday). (Effectiveness of protest:) Hitler?s book has already been popular in India for a long time, apparently esp. among Hindu nationalists (see ?Hitler als ?Management-Guru? in Indien? - http://www.20min.ch/ausland/news/story/29880511). It seems that India demands the right to make every mistake the West has made, from environmental destruction, turbo capitalism, nuclear armaments, to reading warped books. A mere loud condemnation of (just another) edition of Hitler?s book coming from the West is likely to be seen as yet another bit of neo-colonial holier-than-thou moralizing. What effectively is being said is ?Americans and Israelis should read the book, but it is too dangerous for you foolish Indians to have it?, and I do not think that any Indian wants to hear that. Banning a book has never stopped the spread of nefarious ideas anyway (only better books, open discussion and explanation do that), and if we make a fuss, it may only mean additional publicity for something that we do not want to see popularized. (Superfluousness:) For whatever reason, MLBD has apparently already taken down the offer from its website www.mlbd.com as of today (May 20, 2014). This may mean that this entire discussion, the open letter etc. are superfluous. (Or it may mean that only the online advertising has stopped, but not the production and sale. I do not know.) Because I believe protests to MLBD in this matter are unfair, discriminatory, ideologically ineffective, not Indological, at worst publicitywise counter-productive, and perhaps superfluous anyway, I will not sign the public petition. Robert Zydenbos -- Prof. Dr. Robert J. Zydenbos Institut f?r Indologie und Tibetologie Department f?r Asienstudien Ludwig-Maximilians-Universit?t M?nchen (LMU) _______________________________________________ INDOLOGY mailing list INDOLOGY at list.indology.info http://listinfo.indology.info From jean-luc.chevillard at univ-paris-diderot.fr Tue May 20 15:05:11 2014 From: jean-luc.chevillard at univ-paris-diderot.fr (Jean-Luc Chevillard) Date: Tue, 20 May 14 17:05:11 +0200 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Hitler and MLBD In-Reply-To: <537B5DAD.7070307@uni-muenchen.de> Message-ID: <537B6F27.4030908@univ-paris-diderot.fr> Dear Robert, I don't have to read Mein Kampf in order to know what Nazis and their followers (such as the French r?gime of Vichy) did. I just have to walk the streets of Paris and to see what is written here and there, such as in the "plaque" (see the two attached files) which stands in "Rue Alibert" outside a School, in the 10?me arrondissement of Paris, less than 500 meters from the place where I currently live. Our indian friends never have the occasion to see such things. For them NAZISM is an abstraction and, as Jan Houben pointed out, about the name "Hitler", ? it seems to have become lexicalized in the sense of "severe person" ...? I don't know a single person in Europe who is proud of the crimes committed at the time of Nazism. I don't want to prevent people from reading /Mein Kampf/, I don't want to "moralize", I just want to send the message to our Indian colleagues and friends that: ? WE (in Europe) ARE NOT PROUD OF this segment of our past. ? And I am sure that those members of my family who are German would be happy not to see the topic of Hitler and Nazism come up automatically, while travelling in India, whenever the people they meet detect that they are German (To me, a Frenchman, they would of course talk about Napoleon ...) This thread is not ABOUT INDIA: it is a thread ABOUT EUROPE (and about the stereotypes concerning Europe, which we DON'T HAVE TO ACCEPT). This is a thread for making statements about who WE are (the WE being intended as "inclusive" [Tamil ???? (n?m)], if I adress someone who perceives oneself as having European roots and as "exclusive" [Tamil ??????? (n??ka?)] if I adress someone else. And the statements are especially important when they are adressed to OUR CHILDREN (I myself have two boys) And I agree that this thread does not concern INDOLOGY (and INDIA) BUT I have just signed the petition, online at: "http://www.change.org/petitions/motilal-banarsidass-stop-publishing-and-selling-hitler-s-mein-kampf#share" Best wishes from Paris -- Jean-Luc "https://twitter.com/JLC1956" On 20/05/2014 15:50, Robert Zydenbos wrote: > How many of the prudishly politically correct critics in this thread > have actually read it? -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: P1130497.JPG Type: image/jpeg Size: 161914 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: P1130498.JPG Type: image/jpeg Size: 136004 bytes Desc: not available URL: From soni at staff.uni-marburg.de Tue May 20 15:25:18 2014 From: soni at staff.uni-marburg.de (soni at staff.uni-marburg.de) Date: Tue, 20 May 14 17:25:18 +0200 Subject: [INDOLOGY] 16th WSC in Bangkok: News 200514 Message-ID: <20140520172518.Horde.L6N_zyh6DKCRWK-2C4u9eg6@home.staff.uni-marburg.de> Dear Friends and Colleagues, If you are contemplating on participating in the World Sanskrit Conference in Bangkok in June-July 2015, as we earnestly encourage others to do so too, then please note the following changes with immediate effect: 1. The date of the second Announcement has now been set for 15 July 2014. Among many other details we hope to have special hotel rates by then, which we would like to include in it. 2. PLEASE NOTE this EARLIER date for the Submission of abstracts: abstract submission now closes on 15 OCTOBER 2014 (NOT 15 February 2015). This earlier date is, for example, to help with properly organising the various sections with their numerous sessions on several days. 3. Early Registration Rates end on 15 January 2015 (unchanged). Please do register as soon as you can. If you wish you may send your abstracts later, before the deadline of 15 October 2014. Looking forward to hearing from you soon. You will find these and other details, including the online registration form here: http://www.sanskrit-silpakorn.org/ With best wishes, J. Soni Secretary General of the IASS and on behalf of the local organisers in Bangkok -- From wujastyk at gmail.com Tue May 20 15:29:27 2014 From: wujastyk at gmail.com (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Tue, 20 May 14 17:29:27 +0200 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Hitler and MLBD In-Reply-To: Message-ID: It has been said by me and others that the central argument here is that MLBD as an Indological publisher owned by Jains has no good justification for publishing *Mein Kampf*. MK is not an Indological work (and indology is MLBD's main business identity) and it is a work that promotes cruelty (MLBD is owned by a pious Jain family). Robert, I do not agree with most of your points. It is indeed true that Bavaria generally discourages the publication of MK nationally and internationally, although there are exceptions and borderline cases, like Israel. These exceptions do not represent the main policy of the Bavarian govt. The critical edition is a special case, with special imperatives and bracketting (Horizont) and it is controversial. It is not suitable for making the general case about the policies of the Bavarian govt., which are clear enough. The internal controversy precisely shows how uncomfortable the Bavarian govt. is about publishing this work, even the crit. ed. As we also know, other signs of Nazism are criminal offences in Germany (SS runes, Hakenkreuz, salutes, slogans, holocaust denial aimed at incitement, etc.; *Strafgezetzbuch* para 86a, apparently). The commercialism argument scarcely warrants a reply. Should MLBD also sell heroin or pornography because they could make a profit? Ethics are involved. Consistency: you exactly invert the truth. If the Indian Penal Code can be used to prevent the publication of relatively harmless academic books, then let it also be used for its original purpose, to prevent the publication of genuine hate literature. Let the law of the land be used to do some good. As for freedom of speech, yes that is a good argument. However, MK is widely available in India already, and I am not arguing with other publishers, only with MLBD (Indology argument). Effectiveness: "The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." -- Edmund Burke The fact that Hitler is popular in some quarters in India does not absolve those of us who know the horrors about Hitler and Nazism in European history from opposing such views. Especially as they are often based on almost complete ignorance. In my experience, when I have conversations with friends in India about the European experiences during the two World Wars, they are often horrified and had no idea beforehand about the Holocaust and other facts. Superfluousness: Yes the book is not on the front page of MLBD's website today. But they are apparently still selling Mein Kampf, together with a DVD of a film. It seems that they have changed the edition that they are selling, or at least the covers illustration. I am not yet sure about the meaning of this change. There is nothing "unfair" in protesting to MLBD about their decision to publish MK. Why unfair? Why should one keep silent in the face of a bad act, under the name of fairness? "Discriminatory"? How? Because we haven't written to every publisher? Why should we? I have written to MLBD because they publish some of my books and because I work with them and know (and like) them and because they are a major presence in Indological publishing. "Ideologically ineffective"? I don't think so. It is not ideologically ineffective to make an argument against something that one considers bad. It would be ineffective to do nothing. "Not Indological?" Well, that's point, isn't it? Why should an Indological publisher promote Mein Kampf? Or do you mean that we shouldn't discuss this issue because it isn't Indological? "Publicitywise counter-productive"? We don't yet know, do we? MLBD has removed the advertisement from their website's front page already, within 24 hours. Maybe they will feel moved to stop selling the book altogether? The future will tell. "Superfluous anyway"? You want MLBD to sell Mein Kampf? Sincerely, Dominik On Tue, May 20, 2014 at 3:50 PM, Robert Zydenbos wrote: > A view on this not really Indological matter from an Indologist in Munich, > Bavaria (the historical starting place, which is why I regularly deal with > such questions; again in class, last Monday). > > (Situation in Germany:) It is not true that the Government of Bavaria > ?refuses to allow any copying or printing of the book in Germany? (sorry, > Dominik, but the statement in your open letter is not quite accurate). In > fact, the Bavarian government has subsidized a new, historically critical > edition of the book by the Institut f?r Zeitgeschichte with an amount of > half a million euros. In spite of support from many German Jews for this > idea ( > http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/08/12/german-jews-want-mein-kam_n_257937.html), > the present chief minister of Bavaria suddenly announced, a few months ago, > the stopping of a further subsidizing, apparently because of protests from > certain other Jewish groups (which I consider foolish: both the protests as > well as the interruption of the subsidy, and this stop has been criticized > by oppositional left-wing political parties in the Bavarian parliament), > but the editing work continues. For the latest details, see > http://www.br.de/nachrichten/mein-kampf-hitler-100.html > > (Prohibition through exercise of copyright:) The Bavarian government has > been quite selective in exercising its copyright to prohibit new editions > of the book elsewhere. E.g., nothing has been undertaken against several > editions in Israel (see > https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mein_Kampf#Aktuelle_Rechtslage). > > (Availability and how to deal with it:) ?Mein Kampf? is freely available > anyway, as has already been amply pointed out in this thread. The critical > edition (see above; also an edition for schools is planned) is meant to > counterbalance the surge of new editions that unavoidably will appear from > 2015 onwards ( > http://www.deutschlandfunk.de/der-kampf-um-mein-kampf.724.de.html?dram:article_id=99882). > If MLBD brings out an integral edition of the book (not historically > critical, but at least complete; does it have an explanatory preface? Has > anybody seen it?), then readers can judge for themselves just how dull and > crazy it is. (How many of the prudishly politically correct critics in this > thread have actually read it? I stopped reading it ? precisely because most > of it is dull, and the rest is crazy in a not entertaining way.) This > craziness may not be so visible if, in an uncontrolled manner, mere > excerpts are published, which is not what MLBD has / had in mind. > Furthermore, MLBD explicitly speaks / spoke of the author on its website as > ?evil?, thus explicitly not endorsing the contents of the book (did anybody > here see that? Or were we too busy being outraged?). > > (Commercialism:) MLBD is a commercial publisher and evidently has stopped > being a purely academically Indological publisher at least for some time > now (if ever they have been one). Already for years they have been bringing > out books on all sorts of topics, many of which, in my view, are rather > trashy. Is it really fair to be intercontinentally critical of them while > their commercial competitors, like Jaico, are making money with it? Like > Amazon and Barnes and Noble sell it? ( > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mein_Kampf#Online_availability) > > (Consistency:) If the overseas academic community cries out against the > banning of books in India (Doniger, Ramanujan) in the name of freedom of > expression, it looks odd that such people demand a ban on this old book for > reasons which hardly any Indian understands (cf. for an illustration > Veeranarayana Pandurangi?s characteristic post in this thread, last Sunday). > > (Effectiveness of protest:) Hitler?s book has already been popular in > India for a long time, apparently esp. among Hindu nationalists (see > ?Hitler als ?Management-Guru? in Indien? - > http://www.20min.ch/ausland/news/story/29880511). It seems that India > demands the right to make every mistake the West has made, from > environmental destruction, turbo capitalism, nuclear armaments, to reading > warped books. A mere loud condemnation of (just another) edition of > Hitler?s book coming from the West is likely to be seen as yet another bit > of neo-colonial holier-than-thou moralizing. What effectively is being said > is ?Americans and Israelis should read the book, but it is too dangerous > for you foolish Indians to have it?, and I do not think that any Indian > wants to hear that. Banning a book has never stopped the spread of > nefarious ideas anyway (only better books, open discussion and explanation > do that), and if we make a fuss, it may only mean additional publicity for > something that we do not want to see popularized. > > (Superfluousness:) For whatever reason, MLBD has apparently already taken > down the offer from its website www.mlbd.com as of today (May 20, 2014). > This may mean that this entire discussion, the open letter etc. are > superfluous. (Or it may mean that only the online advertising has stopped, > but not the production and sale. I do not know.) > > Because I believe protests to MLBD in this matter are unfair, > discriminatory, ideologically ineffective, not Indological, at worst > publicitywise counter-productive, and perhaps superfluous anyway, I will > not sign the public petition. > > Robert Zydenbos > > -- > Prof. Dr. Robert J. Zydenbos > Institut f?r Indologie und Tibetologie > Department f?r Asienstudien > Ludwig-Maximilians-Universit?t M?nchen (LMU) > > > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > http://listinfo.indology.info > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dipak.d2004 at gmail.com Tue May 20 16:18:50 2014 From: dipak.d2004 at gmail.com (Dipak Bhattacharya) Date: Tue, 20 May 14 21:48:50 +0530 Subject: [INDOLOGY] In defense of MLBD In-Reply-To: Message-ID: 20 5 14 Dear List members, I add that the Indian version of the MLBD News letter has no advertisement of the Mein Kampf. Secondly, H.Oldenberg was one of the ideological forerunners of Hitler. He explicitly stated that the Aryan race in India lost their purity and culture by blood mixture with non-Aryan Indians. He maintained that blood was the soul of the man. To these rustic primitive ideas Oldenberg added his myth -- unfortunately shared by many 'scientific' minded Indologists - that the Greeks etc were pure Indo-European races. As if there were no pre-Indo-European indigenous people in the lands of Europe before the invasion/ migration by the Indo-Europeans. The question whether the primitive Indo-Europeans had been a race or communities with cultural affinity unit was, of course, too refined for Oldenberg. My question is why should we not first recommend writing off Oldenberg's *Die Literatur des alten Indien*, 2nd ed., Stuttgart 1923 where the racist ideas of Oldenberg prominently occur, from the lsts of recommended books in the Universities? Dipak Bhattacharya On Tue, May 20, 2014 at 8:18 PM, Walser, Joseph wrote: > I have been keeping silent for a while, largely because whenever scholars > think they catch a whiff of anti-semitism, there inevitably follows a > barrage of angry emails and I, like anyone else, would hate to be painted > with that brush. But I have to agree with Robert. Furthermore, while I do > understand that there are many benighted (and well-caffienated) souls out > there who may order Mein Kampf for inspirational reading, do we as a > scholarly community want to see works become unavailable simply because the > work (or the author) promotes something horrific? What if I am writing an > article on Nazi influences on Jakob Hauer's writings on yoga? Conceivably I > might want to consult a copy of Mein Kampf and I might turn to MLBD to get > a cheap copy. I suspect that most scholars who own a copy, bought it for > scholarly purposes. If we as a scholarly community want to wipe the world > clean of Nazi ideas, we enter a slippery slope that ends up not being very > scholarly. Do we also boycott presses that publish Carl Schmitt's Political > Theology (a demonically brilliant argument for the suspension of the Wiemar > Constitution)? Do we boycott the works of (many) political theorists who > use his ideas? What about Heidegger? On the other hand, if there are bozos > out there who can stay awake through it enough to endorse Hitler's agenda, > wouldn't it be helpful to have access to a copy? > > This thread started by pointing out the hypocrisy of Penguin pulping a > work of indology while letting Mein Kampf be published. I get the irony. > But what stared out as an observation has now become a movement to hurt a > press that had nothing to do with the pulping of Wendy's book. If anybody > cares to read the blurb for the book on the MLBD site, they will see that > MLBD is NOT promoting the agenda of the book. Allow me to quote: > > Mein Kampf will give you an insight into one of the greatest evil geniuses > of the last century; his political ideals, his beliefs and motivation, and > his struggle to consolidate Germany into one great nation, and a Nazi-Third > Reich. > > "The terror and the brutal treatment he unleashed during his years of > power can be best said in his own words: ??Cruelty impresses, people want > to be afraid of something. They want someone to whom they can submit with a > shudder, the masses need that. They need something to dread?? > > "This great tyrant will go down in the history of the world. And all those > who lived through the holocaust will shudder to think that such a man was > ever born, and fervently wish that such a history would never repeat > itself. " > > This is hardly a promotion of an anti-semitic agenda. Let's save our > collective ire for folks that deserve it. I am sure I am going to get > flamed for saying this, but somebody had to. > -j > > Joseph Walser > Associate Professor > Department of Religion > Tufts University > > ________________________________________ > From: INDOLOGY [indology-bounces at list.indology.info] on behalf of Robert > Zydenbos [zydenbos at uni-muenchen.de] > Sent: Tuesday, May 20, 2014 9:50 AM > To: Indology > Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] Hitler and MLBD > > A view on this not really Indological matter from an Indologist in > Munich, Bavaria (the historical starting place, which is why I regularly > deal with such questions; again in class, last Monday). > > (Situation in Germany:) It is not true that the Government of Bavaria > ?refuses to allow any copying or printing of the book in Germany? > (sorry, Dominik, but the statement in your open letter is not quite > accurate). In fact, the Bavarian government has subsidized a new, > historically critical edition of the book by the Institut f?r > Zeitgeschichte with an amount of half a million euros. In spite of > support from many German Jews for this idea > ( > http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/08/12/german-jews-want-mein-kam_n_257937.html > ), > the present chief minister of Bavaria suddenly announced, a few months > ago, the stopping of a further subsidizing, apparently because of > protests from certain other Jewish groups (which I consider foolish: > both the protests as well as the interruption of the subsidy, and this > stop has been criticized by oppositional left-wing political parties in > the Bavarian parliament), but the editing work continues. For the latest > details, see http://www.br.de/nachrichten/mein-kampf-hitler-100.html > > (Prohibition through exercise of copyright:) The Bavarian government has > been quite selective in exercising its copyright to prohibit new > editions of the book elsewhere. E.g., nothing has been undertaken > against several editions in Israel (see > https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mein_Kampf#Aktuelle_Rechtslage). > > (Availability and how to deal with it:) ?Mein Kampf? is freely available > anyway, as has already been amply pointed out in this thread. The > critical edition (see above; also an edition for schools is planned) is > meant to counterbalance the surge of new editions that unavoidably will > appear from 2015 onwards > ( > http://www.deutschlandfunk.de/der-kampf-um-mein-kampf.724.de.html?dram:article_id=99882 > ). > If MLBD brings out an integral edition of the book (not historically > critical, but at least complete; does it have an explanatory preface? > Has anybody seen it?), then readers can judge for themselves just how > dull and crazy it is. (How many of the prudishly politically correct > critics in this thread have actually read it? I stopped reading it ? > precisely because most of it is dull, and the rest is crazy in a not > entertaining way.) This craziness may not be so visible if, in an > uncontrolled manner, mere excerpts are published, which is not what MLBD > has / had in mind. Furthermore, MLBD explicitly speaks / spoke of the > author on its website as ?evil?, thus explicitly not endorsing the > contents of the book (did anybody here see that? Or were we too busy > being outraged?). > > (Commercialism:) MLBD is a commercial publisher and evidently has > stopped being a purely academically Indological publisher at least for > some time now (if ever they have been one). Already for years they have > been bringing out books on all sorts of topics, many of which, in my > view, are rather trashy. Is it really fair to be intercontinentally > critical of them while their commercial competitors, like Jaico, are > making money with it? Like Amazon and Barnes and Noble sell it? > (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mein_Kampf#Online_availability) > > (Consistency:) If the overseas academic community cries out against the > banning of books in India (Doniger, Ramanujan) in the name of freedom of > expression, it looks odd that such people demand a ban on this old book > for reasons which hardly any Indian understands (cf. for an illustration > Veeranarayana Pandurangi?s characteristic post in this thread, last > Sunday). > > (Effectiveness of protest:) Hitler?s book has already been popular in > India for a long time, apparently esp. among Hindu nationalists (see > ?Hitler als ?Management-Guru? in Indien? - > http://www.20min.ch/ausland/news/story/29880511). It seems that India > demands the right to make every mistake the West has made, from > environmental destruction, turbo capitalism, nuclear armaments, to > reading warped books. A mere loud condemnation of (just another) edition > of Hitler?s book coming from the West is likely to be seen as yet > another bit of neo-colonial holier-than-thou moralizing. What > effectively is being said is ?Americans and Israelis should read the > book, but it is too dangerous for you foolish Indians to have it?, and I > do not think that any Indian wants to hear that. Banning a book has > never stopped the spread of nefarious ideas anyway (only better books, > open discussion and explanation do that), and if we make a fuss, it may > only mean additional publicity for something that we do not want to see > popularized. > > (Superfluousness:) For whatever reason, MLBD has apparently already > taken down the offer from its website www.mlbd.com as of today (May 20, > 2014). This may mean that this entire discussion, the open letter etc. > are superfluous. (Or it may mean that only the online advertising has > stopped, but not the production and sale. I do not know.) > > Because I believe protests to MLBD in this matter are unfair, > discriminatory, ideologically ineffective, not Indological, at worst > publicitywise counter-productive, and perhaps superfluous anyway, I will > not sign the public petition. > > Robert Zydenbos > > -- > Prof. Dr. Robert J. Zydenbos > Institut f?r Indologie und Tibetologie > Department f?r Asienstudien > Ludwig-Maximilians-Universit?t M?nchen (LMU) > > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > http://listinfo.indology.info > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > http://listinfo.indology.info > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Joseph.Walser at tufts.edu Tue May 20 16:35:45 2014 From: Joseph.Walser at tufts.edu (Walser, Joseph) Date: Tue, 20 May 14 16:35:45 +0000 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Mathura Inscription help Message-ID: I have been trying to find a photograph or a rubbing of an "inscription on the base of a bodhisattva," from Mathura (Luders list, #88). I found a rubbing of it in Growse 1880 version of Mathura, but only the first part of the inscription appears there. The second part of the inscription ( reading: ".nena Bo[dh]isat[v]o p[r]atis[th]apito ma[ta] pitihi sa]ha") was published by Banerji in EI vol. 10, p. 109. There is supposed to be a "plate I" with the inscription on it, but it is not in the version of Epigraphia Indica that I downloaded from DLI. I need to see the inscription itself. Does anyone have a PDF of the inscription or know where I can find this second part? Best, -j Joseph Walser Associate Professor Department of Religion Tufts University ________________________________ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Joseph.Walser at tufts.edu Tue May 20 17:09:02 2014 From: Joseph.Walser at tufts.edu (Walser, Joseph) Date: Tue, 20 May 14 17:09:02 +0000 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Mathura Inscription THANKS Message-ID: My sincere thanks to Richard Salomon and to Roland Steiner for their speedy help. I am all set now. Thanks, -j Joseph Walser Associate Professor Department of Religion Tufts University ________________________________________ From: Roland Steiner [steiner at staff.uni-marburg.de] Sent: Tuesday, May 20, 2014 1:05 PM To: Walser, Joseph Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] Mathura Inscription help Dear Prof. Walser, Please find the attached file which contains a scan of the relevant pages of L?ders' "Mathur? Inscriptions". Hope it helps. Best, Roland Steiner PS: I fully agree with your last posting to the Indology list ("In defense of MLBD"). -- Dr. Roland Steiner Martin-Luther-Universit?t Halle-Wittenberg Seminar f?r Indologie Emil-Abderhalden-Str. 9 D-06099 Halle (Saale) Tel.: +49-345-55-23656 Fax.: +49-345-55-27211 URL: http://www.indologie.uni-halle.de/ E-Mail: roland.steiner at indologie.uni-halle.de From wujastyk at gmail.com Tue May 20 18:01:18 2014 From: wujastyk at gmail.com (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Tue, 20 May 14 20:01:18 +0200 Subject: [INDOLOGY] In defense of MLBD In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On 20 May 2014 18:18, Dipak Bhattacharya wrote: ?...? > My question is why should we not first recommend writing off Oldenberg's *Die > Literatur des alten Indien*, 2nd ed., Stuttgart 1923 where the racist > ideas of Oldenberg prominently occur, from the lsts of recommended books in > the Universities? > ?Why not, indeed? I think it would be very good if Indian universities used more up-to-date text books! I am always saddened when I read the anti-aryan-invasion people arguing against Max M?ller. It's like Don Quixote tilting at windmills. Almost nobody outside India has read anything by Muller for nearly a hundred years (to learn about Indology, that is). The field of Indology *does* move forward, actually, just like other fields of intellectual endeavour, and it would be wonderful if university students in India were encouraged and enabled to read contemporary literature on the subject of Indian literary studies, rather than pre-war stuff that's long ago been superseded by more exciting, more accurate and more comprehensive research. So, if you start a petition for replacing Oldenberg in Indian university curricula with something better, I'll sign :-) Dominik -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jknutson at hawaii.edu Tue May 20 20:18:50 2014 From: jknutson at hawaii.edu (Jesse Knutson) Date: Tue, 20 May 14 10:18:50 -1000 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Hitler and MLBD In-Reply-To: <537B5DAD.7070307@uni-muenchen.de> Message-ID: Dear Friends, For me the issue is not that someone publishes Mein Kampf, it is that MLBD should publish it. I do agree that the text should not be pulped--it should be available for historical education and research, but it is questionable when it is being marketed because of its potential popularity and commercial viability. This is the important point and what is slightly chilling about the whole thing, particularly in view of the very strong appeal of fascist ideology in India today, if not Nazism in particular. I think it is worthwhile that we as scholars ask MLBD to try to maintain its dignity and integrity as at least a halfway serious publisher, by not pandering to what is most vile in Indian society. I don't think we should go as far as to ask that Hitler's writings be universally pulped, we should only demand that they not form a part of the marketing agenda of a press with which we have been historically associated and continue to associate ourselves. So we are certainly right in demanding that MLBD not publish Hitler, and I think we can use this opportunity to ask that MLBD not make other stupid decisions about what it peddles. It is o.k. for the press to try to be somewhat commercially viable, but not at the expense of all dignity. It has some responsibility as a bastion of Indological and historical publishing. If they publish Hitler without getting some flack from us, then next it will be Savarkar and other Hindutva sludge. Thus I think we should broaden our criticisms of MLBD. I have personally been sending Mr. Jain angry letters for years, not only about the titles, but about the miserable condition of their bookshops, and the incompetence and rudeness of staff who are obviously nepotism-spawned stooges. His responses have been without exception very disappointing exercises in fatuous self-congratulation. There has been a general decline in Indological titles at MLBD for some time, in favor of really bad, unscientific new age stuff. It is o.k. if they publish some slightly new agey stuff, but they have thrown all standards out the window for some time now, and I think they really lack competent, educated, and discerning staff. This at a time when there is no shortage of highly educated and yet jobless Indians. I know that publishers have to find a way to survive, but I feel so sad that the very publisher that has provided me so much access to Sanskrit texts and other matter for decades, should disgrace itself like this. Let's keep up the heat, but focus it not on Hitler and Nazism per se, but on MLBD and its responsibility both to us and itself. On Tue, May 20, 2014 at 3:50 AM, Robert Zydenbos wrote: > A view on this not really Indological matter from an Indologist in Munich, > Bavaria (the historical starting place, which is why I regularly deal with > such questions; again in class, last Monday). > > (Situation in Germany:) It is not true that the Government of Bavaria > ?refuses to allow any copying or printing of the book in Germany? (sorry, > Dominik, but the statement in your open letter is not quite accurate). In > fact, the Bavarian government has subsidized a new, historically critical > edition of the book by the Institut f?r Zeitgeschichte with an amount of > half a million euros. In spite of support from many German Jews for this > idea (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/08/12/german-jews- > want-mein-kam_n_257937.html), the present chief minister of Bavaria > suddenly announced, a few months ago, the stopping of a further > subsidizing, apparently because of protests from certain other Jewish > groups (which I consider foolish: both the protests as well as the > interruption of the subsidy, and this stop has been criticized by > oppositional left-wing political parties in the Bavarian parliament), but > the editing work continues. For the latest details, see > http://www.br.de/nachrichten/mein-kampf-hitler-100.html > > (Prohibition through exercise of copyright:) The Bavarian government has > been quite selective in exercising its copyright to prohibit new editions > of the book elsewhere. E.g., nothing has been undertaken against several > editions in Israel (see https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/ > Mein_Kampf#Aktuelle_Rechtslage). > > (Availability and how to deal with it:) ?Mein Kampf? is freely available > anyway, as has already been amply pointed out in this thread. The critical > edition (see above; also an edition for schools is planned) is meant to > counterbalance the surge of new editions that unavoidably will appear from > 2015 onwards (http://www.deutschlandfunk.de/der-kampf-um-mein-kampf. > 724.de.html?dram:article_id=99882). If MLBD brings out an integral > edition of the book (not historically critical, but at least complete; does > it have an explanatory preface? Has anybody seen it?), then readers can > judge for themselves just how dull and crazy it is. (How many of the > prudishly politically correct critics in this thread have actually read it? > I stopped reading it ? precisely because most of it is dull, and the rest > is crazy in a not entertaining way.) This craziness may not be so visible > if, in an uncontrolled manner, mere excerpts are published, which is not > what MLBD has / had in mind. Furthermore, MLBD explicitly speaks / spoke of > the author on its website as ?evil?, thus explicitly not endorsing the > contents of the book (did anybody here see that? Or were we too busy being > outraged?). > > (Commercialism:) MLBD is a commercial publisher and evidently has stopped > being a purely academically Indological publisher at least for some time > now (if ever they have been one). Already for years they have been bringing > out books on all sorts of topics, many of which, in my view, are rather > trashy. Is it really fair to be intercontinentally critical of them while > their commercial competitors, like Jaico, are making money with it? Like > Amazon and Barnes and Noble sell it? (https://en.wikipedia.org/ > wiki/Mein_Kampf#Online_availability) > > (Consistency:) If the overseas academic community cries out against the > banning of books in India (Doniger, Ramanujan) in the name of freedom of > expression, it looks odd that such people demand a ban on this old book for > reasons which hardly any Indian understands (cf. for an illustration > Veeranarayana Pandurangi?s characteristic post in this thread, last Sunday). > > (Effectiveness of protest:) Hitler?s book has already been popular in > India for a long time, apparently esp. among Hindu nationalists (see > ?Hitler als ?Management-Guru? in Indien? - http://www.20min.ch/ausland/ > news/story/29880511). It seems that India demands the right to make every > mistake the West has made, from environmental destruction, turbo > capitalism, nuclear armaments, to reading warped books. A mere loud > condemnation of (just another) edition of Hitler?s book coming from the > West is likely to be seen as yet another bit of neo-colonial > holier-than-thou moralizing. What effectively is being said is ?Americans > and Israelis should read the book, but it is too dangerous for you foolish > Indians to have it?, and I do not think that any Indian wants to hear that. > Banning a book has never stopped the spread of nefarious ideas anyway (only > better books, open discussion and explanation do that), and if we make a > fuss, it may only mean additional publicity for something that we do not > want to see popularized. > > (Superfluousness:) For whatever reason, MLBD has apparently already taken > down the offer from its website www.mlbd.com as of today (May 20, 2014). > This may mean that this entire discussion, the open letter etc. are > superfluous. (Or it may mean that only the online advertising has stopped, > but not the production and sale. I do not know.) > > Because I believe protests to MLBD in this matter are unfair, > discriminatory, ideologically ineffective, not Indological, at worst > publicitywise counter-productive, and perhaps superfluous anyway, I will > not sign the public petition. > > Robert Zydenbos > > -- > Prof. Dr. Robert J. Zydenbos > Institut f?r Indologie und Tibetologie > Department f?r Asienstudien > Ludwig-Maximilians-Universit?t M?nchen (LMU) > > > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > http://listinfo.indology.info > -- Jesse Ross Knutson PhD Assistant Professor of Sanskrit and Bengali, Department of Indo-Pacific Languages and Literatures University of Hawai'i at M?noa 452A Spalding -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jknutson at hawaii.edu Tue May 20 20:41:46 2014 From: jknutson at hawaii.edu (Jesse Knutson) Date: Tue, 20 May 14 10:41:46 -1000 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Hitler and MLBD In-Reply-To: <5622B5FA1B14F3439A3ABC85C5A09EA8238EB26A@EX-1-MB1.lancs.local> Message-ID: There is no debate about the appeal of fascist forms of politics in India today--this is not a controversial point, and certainly not a matter of 'opinion'. Vastly popular organizations like the RSS, Sangh Parivar, etc. take their inspiration from Mussolini and Hitler. Savarkar directly modelled his organization on Mussolini. You might be aware that a PM has just been elected with intense connections to these organizations. On Tue, May 20, 2014 at 10:31 AM, Ram-Prasad, Chakravarthi < c.ram-prasad at lancaster.ac.uk> wrote: > Despite the seriousness of the question at stake (and as someone who > has, after consideration, signed the petition), it has been illuminating to > see the effort put into arguments on either side. > In this context, it is just not helpful to make sweeping statements about > ?the very strong appeal of fascist ideology in India today?, as if it were > some self-evident thing. My main concern is that it does not seem to be > relevant (who the heck are you going to certify as a people for whom > fascism has no appeal? Would publishing this book be ok for them?). But > also it simply doesn?t seem to be that simple a fact about the complex > dynamics of Indian democracy today. I feel fairly certain that many, > including me, who want to pursue the issue of why MLBD thought it right > (for all that they do describe the book in a uniformly critical way) to > publish it, would baulk at the implication that we would share your > attitude to what ideology does and not does not appeal and to what extent, > in India. > > Ram-Prasad > ------------------------------ > *From:* INDOLOGY [indology-bounces at list.indology.info] on behalf of Jesse > Knutson [jknutson at hawaii.edu] > *Sent:* Tuesday, May 20, 2014 9:18 PM > *To:* Robert Zydenbos > *Cc:* Indology > *Subject:* Re: [INDOLOGY] Hitler and MLBD > > Dear Friends, For me the issue is not that someone publishes Mein > Kampf, it is that MLBD should publish it. I do agree that the text should > not be pulped--it should be available for historical education and > research, but it is questionable when it is being marketed because of its > potential popularity and commercial viability. This is the important point > and what is slightly chilling about the whole thing, particularly in view > of the very strong appeal of fascist ideology in India today, if not Nazism > in particular. I think it is worthwhile that we as scholars ask MLBD to try > to maintain its dignity and integrity as at least a halfway serious > publisher, by not pandering to what is most vile in Indian society. I don't > think we should go as far as to ask that Hitler's writings be universally > pulped, we should only demand that they not form a part of the marketing > agenda of a press with which we have been historically associated and > continue to associate ourselves. So we are certainly right in demanding > that MLBD not publish Hitler, and I think we can use this opportunity to > ask that MLBD not make other stupid decisions about what it peddles. It is > o.k. for the press to try to be somewhat commercially viable, but not at > the expense of all dignity. It has some responsibility as a bastion of > Indological and historical publishing. If they publish Hitler without > getting some flack from us, then next it will be Savarkar and other > Hindutva sludge. > > Thus I think we should broaden our criticisms of MLBD. I have personally > been sending Mr. Jain angry letters for years, not only about the titles, > but about the miserable condition of their bookshops, and the incompetence > and rudeness of staff who are obviously nepotism-spawned stooges. His > responses have been without exception very disappointing exercises in > fatuous self-congratulation. > > There has been a general decline in Indological titles at MLBD for some > time, in favor of really bad, unscientific new age stuff. It is o.k. if > they publish some slightly new agey stuff, but they have thrown all > standards out the window for some time now, and I think they really lack > competent, educated, and discerning staff. This at a time when there is no > shortage of highly educated and yet jobless Indians. I know that publishers > have to find a way to survive, but I feel so sad that the very publisher > that has provided me so much access to Sanskrit texts and other matter for > decades, should disgrace itself like this. > > Let's keep up the heat, but focus it not on Hitler and Nazism per se, > but on MLBD and its responsibility both to us and itself. > > > > > On Tue, May 20, 2014 at 3:50 AM, Robert Zydenbos > wrote: > >> A view on this not really Indological matter from an Indologist in >> Munich, Bavaria (the historical starting place, which is why I regularly >> deal with such questions; again in class, last Monday). >> >> (Situation in Germany:) It is not true that the Government of Bavaria >> ?refuses to allow any copying or printing of the book in Germany? (sorry, >> Dominik, but the statement in your open letter is not quite accurate). In >> fact, the Bavarian government has subsidized a new, historically critical >> edition of the book by the Institut f?r Zeitgeschichte with an amount of >> half a million euros. In spite of support from many German Jews for this >> idea (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/08/12/german-jews- >> want-mein-kam_n_257937.html), the present chief minister of Bavaria >> suddenly announced, a few months ago, the stopping of a further >> subsidizing, apparently because of protests from certain other Jewish >> groups (which I consider foolish: both the protests as well as the >> interruption of the subsidy, and this stop has been criticized by >> oppositional left-wing political parties in the Bavarian parliament), but >> the editing work continues. For the latest details, see >> http://www.br.de/nachrichten/mein-kampf-hitler-100.html >> >> (Prohibition through exercise of copyright:) The Bavarian government has >> been quite selective in exercising its copyright to prohibit new editions >> of the book elsewhere. E.g., nothing has been undertaken against several >> editions in Israel (see https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/ >> Mein_Kampf#Aktuelle_Rechtslage). >> >> (Availability and how to deal with it:) ?Mein Kampf? is freely available >> anyway, as has already been amply pointed out in this thread. The critical >> edition (see above; also an edition for schools is planned) is meant to >> counterbalance the surge of new editions that unavoidably will appear from >> 2015 onwards (http://www.deutschlandfunk.de/der-kampf-um-mein-kampf. >> 724.de.html?dram:article_id=99882). If MLBD brings out an integral >> edition of the book (not historically critical, but at least complete; does >> it have an explanatory preface? Has anybody seen it?), then readers can >> judge for themselves just how dull and crazy it is. (How many of the >> prudishly politically correct critics in this thread have actually read it? >> I stopped reading it ? precisely because most of it is dull, and the rest >> is crazy in a not entertaining way.) This craziness may not be so visible >> if, in an uncontrolled manner, mere excerpts are published, which is not >> what MLBD has / had in mind. Furthermore, MLBD explicitly speaks / spoke of >> the author on its website as ?evil?, thus explicitly not endorsing the >> contents of the book (did anybody here see that? Or were we too busy being >> outraged?). >> >> (Commercialism:) MLBD is a commercial publisher and evidently has stopped >> being a purely academically Indological publisher at least for some time >> now (if ever they have been one). Already for years they have been bringing >> out books on all sorts of topics, many of which, in my view, are rather >> trashy. Is it really fair to be intercontinentally critical of them while >> their commercial competitors, like Jaico, are making money with it? Like >> Amazon and Barnes and Noble sell it? (https://en.wikipedia.org/ >> wiki/Mein_Kampf#Online_availability) >> >> (Consistency:) If the overseas academic community cries out against the >> banning of books in India (Doniger, Ramanujan) in the name of freedom of >> expression, it looks odd that such people demand a ban on this old book for >> reasons which hardly any Indian understands (cf. for an illustration >> Veeranarayana Pandurangi?s characteristic post in this thread, last Sunday). >> >> (Effectiveness of protest:) Hitler?s book has already been popular in >> India for a long time, apparently esp. among Hindu nationalists (see >> ?Hitler als ?Management-Guru? in Indien? - http://www.20min.ch/ausland/ >> news/story/29880511). It seems that India demands the right to make >> every mistake the West has made, from environmental destruction, turbo >> capitalism, nuclear armaments, to reading warped books. A mere loud >> condemnation of (just another) edition of Hitler?s book coming from the >> West is likely to be seen as yet another bit of neo-colonial >> holier-than-thou moralizing. What effectively is being said is ?Americans >> and Israelis should read the book, but it is too dangerous for you foolish >> Indians to have it?, and I do not think that any Indian wants to hear that. >> Banning a book has never stopped the spread of nefarious ideas anyway (only >> better books, open discussion and explanation do that), and if we make a >> fuss, it may only mean additional publicity for something that we do not >> want to see popularized. >> >> (Superfluousness:) For whatever reason, MLBD has apparently already taken >> down the offer from its website www.mlbd.com as of today (May 20, 2014). >> This may mean that this entire discussion, the open letter etc. are >> superfluous. (Or it may mean that only the online advertising has stopped, >> but not the production and sale. I do not know.) >> >> Because I believe protests to MLBD in this matter are unfair, >> discriminatory, ideologically ineffective, not Indological, at worst >> publicitywise counter-productive, and perhaps superfluous anyway, I will >> not sign the public petition. >> >> Robert Zydenbos >> >> -- >> Prof. Dr. Robert J. Zydenbos >> Institut f?r Indologie und Tibetologie >> Department f?r Asienstudien >> Ludwig-Maximilians-Universit?t M?nchen (LMU) >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> INDOLOGY mailing list >> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info >> http://listinfo.indology.info >> > > > > -- > Jesse Ross Knutson PhD > Assistant Professor of Sanskrit and Bengali, Department of Indo-Pacific > Languages and Literatures > University of Hawai'i at M?noa > 452A Spalding > -- Jesse Ross Knutson PhD Assistant Professor of Sanskrit and Bengali, Department of Indo-Pacific Languages and Literatures University of Hawai'i at M?noa 452A Spalding -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dipak.d2004 at gmail.com Wed May 21 03:36:52 2014 From: dipak.d2004 at gmail.com (Dipak Bhattacharya) Date: Wed, 21 May 14 09:06:52 +0530 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Hitler and MLBD In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Is there debate about the existence of neo-Nazism in, say, the UK? Neo-Nazism has been alleged even among the nationalist fighters of eastern Ukraine. Franco had been propped up by the West till his death. Salazar too. Why should one be country specific? The disease exists in many countries. DB On Wed, May 21, 2014 at 2:11 AM, Jesse Knutson wrote: > There is no debate about the appeal of fascist forms of politics in India > today--this is not a controversial point, and certainly not a matter of > 'opinion'. Vastly popular organizations like the RSS, Sangh Parivar, etc. > take their inspiration from Mussolini and Hitler. Savarkar directly > modelled his organization on Mussolini. You might be aware that a PM has > just been elected with intense connections to these organizations. > > > On Tue, May 20, 2014 at 10:31 AM, Ram-Prasad, Chakravarthi < > c.ram-prasad at lancaster.ac.uk> wrote: > >> Despite the seriousness of the question at stake (and as someone who >> has, after consideration, signed the petition), it has been illuminating to >> see the effort put into arguments on either side. >> In this context, it is just not helpful to make sweeping statements about >> ?the very strong appeal of fascist ideology in India today?, as if it were >> some self-evident thing. My main concern is that it does not seem to be >> relevant (who the heck are you going to certify as a people for whom >> fascism has no appeal? Would publishing this book be ok for them?). But >> also it simply doesn?t seem to be that simple a fact about the complex >> dynamics of Indian democracy today. I feel fairly certain that many, >> including me, who want to pursue the issue of why MLBD thought it right >> (for all that they do describe the book in a uniformly critical way) to >> publish it, would baulk at the implication that we would share your >> attitude to what ideology does and not does not appeal and to what extent, >> in India. >> >> Ram-Prasad >> ------------------------------ >> *From:* INDOLOGY [indology-bounces at list.indology.info] on behalf of >> Jesse Knutson [jknutson at hawaii.edu] >> *Sent:* Tuesday, May 20, 2014 9:18 PM >> *To:* Robert Zydenbos >> *Cc:* Indology >> >> *Subject:* Re: [INDOLOGY] Hitler and MLBD >> >> Dear Friends, For me the issue is not that someone publishes Mein >> Kampf, it is that MLBD should publish it. I do agree that the text should >> not be pulped--it should be available for historical education and >> research, but it is questionable when it is being marketed because of its >> potential popularity and commercial viability. This is the important point >> and what is slightly chilling about the whole thing, particularly in view >> of the very strong appeal of fascist ideology in India today, if not Nazism >> in particular. I think it is worthwhile that we as scholars ask MLBD to try >> to maintain its dignity and integrity as at least a halfway serious >> publisher, by not pandering to what is most vile in Indian society. I don't >> think we should go as far as to ask that Hitler's writings be universally >> pulped, we should only demand that they not form a part of the marketing >> agenda of a press with which we have been historically associated and >> continue to associate ourselves. So we are certainly right in demanding >> that MLBD not publish Hitler, and I think we can use this opportunity to >> ask that MLBD not make other stupid decisions about what it peddles. It is >> o.k. for the press to try to be somewhat commercially viable, but not at >> the expense of all dignity. It has some responsibility as a bastion of >> Indological and historical publishing. If they publish Hitler without >> getting some flack from us, then next it will be Savarkar and other >> Hindutva sludge. >> >> Thus I think we should broaden our criticisms of MLBD. I have >> personally been sending Mr. Jain angry letters for years, not only about >> the titles, but about the miserable condition of their bookshops, and the >> incompetence and rudeness of staff who are obviously nepotism-spawned >> stooges. His responses have been without exception very disappointing >> exercises in fatuous self-congratulation. >> >> There has been a general decline in Indological titles at MLBD for some >> time, in favor of really bad, unscientific new age stuff. It is o.k. if >> they publish some slightly new agey stuff, but they have thrown all >> standards out the window for some time now, and I think they really lack >> competent, educated, and discerning staff. This at a time when there is no >> shortage of highly educated and yet jobless Indians. I know that publishers >> have to find a way to survive, but I feel so sad that the very publisher >> that has provided me so much access to Sanskrit texts and other matter for >> decades, should disgrace itself like this. >> >> Let's keep up the heat, but focus it not on Hitler and Nazism per se, >> but on MLBD and its responsibility both to us and itself. >> >> >> >> >> On Tue, May 20, 2014 at 3:50 AM, Robert Zydenbos < >> zydenbos at uni-muenchen.de> wrote: >> >>> A view on this not really Indological matter from an Indologist in >>> Munich, Bavaria (the historical starting place, which is why I regularly >>> deal with such questions; again in class, last Monday). >>> >>> (Situation in Germany:) It is not true that the Government of Bavaria >>> ?refuses to allow any copying or printing of the book in Germany? (sorry, >>> Dominik, but the statement in your open letter is not quite accurate). In >>> fact, the Bavarian government has subsidized a new, historically critical >>> edition of the book by the Institut f?r Zeitgeschichte with an amount of >>> half a million euros. In spite of support from many German Jews for this >>> idea (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/08/12/german-jews- >>> want-mein-kam_n_257937.html), the present chief minister of Bavaria >>> suddenly announced, a few months ago, the stopping of a further >>> subsidizing, apparently because of protests from certain other Jewish >>> groups (which I consider foolish: both the protests as well as the >>> interruption of the subsidy, and this stop has been criticized by >>> oppositional left-wing political parties in the Bavarian parliament), but >>> the editing work continues. For the latest details, see >>> http://www.br.de/nachrichten/mein-kampf-hitler-100.html >>> >>> (Prohibition through exercise of copyright:) The Bavarian government has >>> been quite selective in exercising its copyright to prohibit new editions >>> of the book elsewhere. E.g., nothing has been undertaken against several >>> editions in Israel (see https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/ >>> Mein_Kampf#Aktuelle_Rechtslage). >>> >>> (Availability and how to deal with it:) ?Mein Kampf? is freely available >>> anyway, as has already been amply pointed out in this thread. The critical >>> edition (see above; also an edition for schools is planned) is meant to >>> counterbalance the surge of new editions that unavoidably will appear from >>> 2015 onwards (http://www.deutschlandfunk.de/der-kampf-um-mein-kampf. >>> 724.de.html?dram:article_id=99882). If MLBD brings out an integral >>> edition of the book (not historically critical, but at least complete; does >>> it have an explanatory preface? Has anybody seen it?), then readers can >>> judge for themselves just how dull and crazy it is. (How many of the >>> prudishly politically correct critics in this thread have actually read it? >>> I stopped reading it ? precisely because most of it is dull, and the rest >>> is crazy in a not entertaining way.) This craziness may not be so visible >>> if, in an uncontrolled manner, mere excerpts are published, which is not >>> what MLBD has / had in mind. Furthermore, MLBD explicitly speaks / spoke of >>> the author on its website as ?evil?, thus explicitly not endorsing the >>> contents of the book (did anybody here see that? Or were we too busy being >>> outraged?). >>> >>> (Commercialism:) MLBD is a commercial publisher and evidently has >>> stopped being a purely academically Indological publisher at least for some >>> time now (if ever they have been one). Already for years they have been >>> bringing out books on all sorts of topics, many of which, in my view, are >>> rather trashy. Is it really fair to be intercontinentally critical of them >>> while their commercial competitors, like Jaico, are making money with it? >>> Like Amazon and Barnes and Noble sell it? (https://en.wikipedia.org/ >>> wiki/Mein_Kampf#Online_availability) >>> >>> (Consistency:) If the overseas academic community cries out against the >>> banning of books in India (Doniger, Ramanujan) in the name of freedom of >>> expression, it looks odd that such people demand a ban on this old book for >>> reasons which hardly any Indian understands (cf. for an illustration >>> Veeranarayana Pandurangi?s characteristic post in this thread, last Sunday). >>> >>> (Effectiveness of protest:) Hitler?s book has already been popular in >>> India for a long time, apparently esp. among Hindu nationalists (see >>> ?Hitler als ?Management-Guru? in Indien? - http://www.20min.ch/ausland/ >>> news/story/29880511). It seems that India demands the right to make >>> every mistake the West has made, from environmental destruction, turbo >>> capitalism, nuclear armaments, to reading warped books. A mere loud >>> condemnation of (just another) edition of Hitler?s book coming from the >>> West is likely to be seen as yet another bit of neo-colonial >>> holier-than-thou moralizing. What effectively is being said is ?Americans >>> and Israelis should read the book, but it is too dangerous for you foolish >>> Indians to have it?, and I do not think that any Indian wants to hear that. >>> Banning a book has never stopped the spread of nefarious ideas anyway (only >>> better books, open discussion and explanation do that), and if we make a >>> fuss, it may only mean additional publicity for something that we do not >>> want to see popularized. >>> >>> (Superfluousness:) For whatever reason, MLBD has apparently already >>> taken down the offer from its website www.mlbd.com as of today (May 20, >>> 2014). This may mean that this entire discussion, the open letter etc. are >>> superfluous. (Or it may mean that only the online advertising has stopped, >>> but not the production and sale. I do not know.) >>> >>> Because I believe protests to MLBD in this matter are unfair, >>> discriminatory, ideologically ineffective, not Indological, at worst >>> publicitywise counter-productive, and perhaps superfluous anyway, I will >>> not sign the public petition. >>> >>> Robert Zydenbos >>> >>> -- >>> Prof. Dr. Robert J. Zydenbos >>> Institut f?r Indologie und Tibetologie >>> Department f?r Asienstudien >>> Ludwig-Maximilians-Universit?t M?nchen (LMU) >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> INDOLOGY mailing list >>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info >>> http://listinfo.indology.info >>> >> >> >> >> -- >> Jesse Ross Knutson PhD >> Assistant Professor of Sanskrit and Bengali, Department of Indo-Pacific >> Languages and Literatures >> University of Hawai'i at M?noa >> 452A Spalding >> > > > > -- > Jesse Ross Knutson PhD > Assistant Professor of Sanskrit and Bengali, Department of Indo-Pacific > Languages and Literatures > University of Hawai'i at M?noa > 452A Spalding > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > http://listinfo.indology.info > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From kauzeya at gmail.com Wed May 21 06:02:44 2014 From: kauzeya at gmail.com (Jonathan Silk) Date: Tue, 20 May 14 23:02:44 -0700 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Hitler and MLBD In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I speak for no one other than myself here, but: 1. I think this topic may be getting a bit off focus, which is/should be the behavior of one of the major Indological publishers (I know I am not the first to voice this). And less importantly, but still worth saying: 2. There is nothing remotely 'alleged' about the Nazism of some of those in Ukraine. They are on video as saying (I wish I were making this up) "We do not agree with *everything* Hitler did," meaning unfortunately not that they disagree with everything, but that there are some things they do not agree with..... Indeed there can be nazis everywhere, but we as Indologists do not have to put up with this anywhere, and reacting to the unacceptable actions of an organization against which we might have some weight seems a good use of our collective authority. The fact, to me, that the owners are Jains I find frankly to move this all nearly beyond comprehension. Jonathan On Tue, May 20, 2014 at 8:36 PM, Dipak Bhattacharya wrote: > Is there debate about the existence of neo-Nazism in, say, the UK? > Neo-Nazism has been alleged even among the nationalist fighters of eastern > Ukraine. Franco had been propped up by the West till his death. Salazar > too. Why should one be country specific? > The disease exists in many countries. > DB > > > On Wed, May 21, 2014 at 2:11 AM, Jesse Knutson wrote: > >> There is no debate about the appeal of fascist forms of politics in India >> today--this is not a controversial point, and certainly not a matter of >> 'opinion'. Vastly popular organizations like the RSS, Sangh Parivar, etc. >> take their inspiration from Mussolini and Hitler. Savarkar directly >> modelled his organization on Mussolini. You might be aware that a PM has >> just been elected with intense connections to these organizations. >> >> >> On Tue, May 20, 2014 at 10:31 AM, Ram-Prasad, Chakravarthi < >> c.ram-prasad at lancaster.ac.uk> wrote: >> >>> Despite the seriousness of the question at stake (and as someone who >>> has, after consideration, signed the petition), it has been illuminating to >>> see the effort put into arguments on either side. >>> In this context, it is just not helpful to make sweeping statements >>> about ?the very strong appeal of fascist ideology in India today?, as if it >>> were some self-evident thing. My main concern is that it does not seem to >>> be relevant (who the heck are you going to certify as a people for whom >>> fascism has no appeal? Would publishing this book be ok for them?). But >>> also it simply doesn?t seem to be that simple a fact about the complex >>> dynamics of Indian democracy today. I feel fairly certain that many, >>> including me, who want to pursue the issue of why MLBD thought it right >>> (for all that they do describe the book in a uniformly critical way) to >>> publish it, would baulk at the implication that we would share your >>> attitude to what ideology does and not does not appeal and to what extent, >>> in India. >>> >>> Ram-Prasad >>> ------------------------------ >>> *From:* INDOLOGY [indology-bounces at list.indology.info] on behalf of >>> Jesse Knutson [jknutson at hawaii.edu] >>> *Sent:* Tuesday, May 20, 2014 9:18 PM >>> *To:* Robert Zydenbos >>> *Cc:* Indology >>> >>> *Subject:* Re: [INDOLOGY] Hitler and MLBD >>> >>> Dear Friends, For me the issue is not that someone publishes Mein >>> Kampf, it is that MLBD should publish it. I do agree that the text should >>> not be pulped--it should be available for historical education and >>> research, but it is questionable when it is being marketed because of its >>> potential popularity and commercial viability. This is the important point >>> and what is slightly chilling about the whole thing, particularly in view >>> of the very strong appeal of fascist ideology in India today, if not Nazism >>> in particular. I think it is worthwhile that we as scholars ask MLBD to try >>> to maintain its dignity and integrity as at least a halfway serious >>> publisher, by not pandering to what is most vile in Indian society. I don't >>> think we should go as far as to ask that Hitler's writings be universally >>> pulped, we should only demand that they not form a part of the marketing >>> agenda of a press with which we have been historically associated and >>> continue to associate ourselves. So we are certainly right in demanding >>> that MLBD not publish Hitler, and I think we can use this opportunity to >>> ask that MLBD not make other stupid decisions about what it peddles. It is >>> o.k. for the press to try to be somewhat commercially viable, but not at >>> the expense of all dignity. It has some responsibility as a bastion of >>> Indological and historical publishing. If they publish Hitler without >>> getting some flack from us, then next it will be Savarkar and other >>> Hindutva sludge. >>> >>> Thus I think we should broaden our criticisms of MLBD. I have >>> personally been sending Mr. Jain angry letters for years, not only about >>> the titles, but about the miserable condition of their bookshops, and the >>> incompetence and rudeness of staff who are obviously nepotism-spawned >>> stooges. His responses have been without exception very disappointing >>> exercises in fatuous self-congratulation. >>> >>> There has been a general decline in Indological titles at MLBD for >>> some time, in favor of really bad, unscientific new age stuff. It is o.k. >>> if they publish some slightly new agey stuff, but they have thrown all >>> standards out the window for some time now, and I think they really lack >>> competent, educated, and discerning staff. This at a time when there is no >>> shortage of highly educated and yet jobless Indians. I know that publishers >>> have to find a way to survive, but I feel so sad that the very publisher >>> that has provided me so much access to Sanskrit texts and other matter for >>> decades, should disgrace itself like this. >>> >>> Let's keep up the heat, but focus it not on Hitler and Nazism per se, >>> but on MLBD and its responsibility both to us and itself. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> On Tue, May 20, 2014 at 3:50 AM, Robert Zydenbos < >>> zydenbos at uni-muenchen.de> wrote: >>> >>>> A view on this not really Indological matter from an Indologist in >>>> Munich, Bavaria (the historical starting place, which is why I regularly >>>> deal with such questions; again in class, last Monday). >>>> >>>> (Situation in Germany:) It is not true that the Government of Bavaria >>>> ?refuses to allow any copying or printing of the book in Germany? (sorry, >>>> Dominik, but the statement in your open letter is not quite accurate). In >>>> fact, the Bavarian government has subsidized a new, historically critical >>>> edition of the book by the Institut f?r Zeitgeschichte with an amount of >>>> half a million euros. In spite of support from many German Jews for this >>>> idea (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/08/12/german-jews- >>>> want-mein-kam_n_257937.html), the present chief minister of Bavaria >>>> suddenly announced, a few months ago, the stopping of a further >>>> subsidizing, apparently because of protests from certain other Jewish >>>> groups (which I consider foolish: both the protests as well as the >>>> interruption of the subsidy, and this stop has been criticized by >>>> oppositional left-wing political parties in the Bavarian parliament), but >>>> the editing work continues. For the latest details, see >>>> http://www.br.de/nachrichten/mein-kampf-hitler-100.html >>>> >>>> (Prohibition through exercise of copyright:) The Bavarian government >>>> has been quite selective in exercising its copyright to prohibit new >>>> editions of the book elsewhere. E.g., nothing has been undertaken against >>>> several editions in Israel (see https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/ >>>> Mein_Kampf#Aktuelle_Rechtslage). >>>> >>>> (Availability and how to deal with it:) ?Mein Kampf? is freely >>>> available anyway, as has already been amply pointed out in this thread. The >>>> critical edition (see above; also an edition for schools is planned) is >>>> meant to counterbalance the surge of new editions that unavoidably will >>>> appear from 2015 onwards (http://www.deutschlandfunk. >>>> de/der-kampf-um-mein-kampf.724.de.html?dram:article_id=99882). If MLBD >>>> brings out an integral edition of the book (not historically critical, but >>>> at least complete; does it have an explanatory preface? Has anybody seen >>>> it?), then readers can judge for themselves just how dull and crazy it is. >>>> (How many of the prudishly politically correct critics in this thread have >>>> actually read it? I stopped reading it ? precisely because most of it is >>>> dull, and the rest is crazy in a not entertaining way.) This craziness may >>>> not be so visible if, in an uncontrolled manner, mere excerpts are >>>> published, which is not what MLBD has / had in mind. Furthermore, MLBD >>>> explicitly speaks / spoke of the author on its website as ?evil?, thus >>>> explicitly not endorsing the contents of the book (did anybody here see >>>> that? Or were we too busy being outraged?). >>>> >>>> (Commercialism:) MLBD is a commercial publisher and evidently has >>>> stopped being a purely academically Indological publisher at least for some >>>> time now (if ever they have been one). Already for years they have been >>>> bringing out books on all sorts of topics, many of which, in my view, are >>>> rather trashy. Is it really fair to be intercontinentally critical of them >>>> while their commercial competitors, like Jaico, are making money with it? >>>> Like Amazon and Barnes and Noble sell it? (https://en.wikipedia.org/ >>>> wiki/Mein_Kampf#Online_availability) >>>> >>>> (Consistency:) If the overseas academic community cries out against the >>>> banning of books in India (Doniger, Ramanujan) in the name of freedom of >>>> expression, it looks odd that such people demand a ban on this old book for >>>> reasons which hardly any Indian understands (cf. for an illustration >>>> Veeranarayana Pandurangi?s characteristic post in this thread, last Sunday). >>>> >>>> (Effectiveness of protest:) Hitler?s book has already been popular in >>>> India for a long time, apparently esp. among Hindu nationalists (see >>>> ?Hitler als ?Management-Guru? in Indien? - http://www.20min.ch/ausland/ >>>> news/story/29880511). It seems that India demands the right to make >>>> every mistake the West has made, from environmental destruction, turbo >>>> capitalism, nuclear armaments, to reading warped books. A mere loud >>>> condemnation of (just another) edition of Hitler?s book coming from the >>>> West is likely to be seen as yet another bit of neo-colonial >>>> holier-than-thou moralizing. What effectively is being said is ?Americans >>>> and Israelis should read the book, but it is too dangerous for you foolish >>>> Indians to have it?, and I do not think that any Indian wants to hear that. >>>> Banning a book has never stopped the spread of nefarious ideas anyway (only >>>> better books, open discussion and explanation do that), and if we make a >>>> fuss, it may only mean additional publicity for something that we do not >>>> want to see popularized. >>>> >>>> (Superfluousness:) For whatever reason, MLBD has apparently already >>>> taken down the offer from its website www.mlbd.com as of today (May >>>> 20, 2014). This may mean that this entire discussion, the open letter etc. >>>> are superfluous. (Or it may mean that only the online advertising has >>>> stopped, but not the production and sale. I do not know.) >>>> >>>> Because I believe protests to MLBD in this matter are unfair, >>>> discriminatory, ideologically ineffective, not Indological, at worst >>>> publicitywise counter-productive, and perhaps superfluous anyway, I will >>>> not sign the public petition. >>>> >>>> Robert Zydenbos >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Prof. Dr. Robert J. Zydenbos >>>> Institut f?r Indologie und Tibetologie >>>> Department f?r Asienstudien >>>> Ludwig-Maximilians-Universit?t M?nchen (LMU) >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> INDOLOGY mailing list >>>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info >>>> http://listinfo.indology.info >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Jesse Ross Knutson PhD >>> Assistant Professor of Sanskrit and Bengali, Department of Indo-Pacific >>> Languages and Literatures >>> University of Hawai'i at M?noa >>> 452A Spalding >>> >> >> >> >> -- >> Jesse Ross Knutson PhD >> Assistant Professor of Sanskrit and Bengali, Department of Indo-Pacific >> Languages and Literatures >> University of Hawai'i at M?noa >> 452A Spalding >> >> _______________________________________________ >> INDOLOGY mailing list >> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info >> http://listinfo.indology.info >> > > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > http://listinfo.indology.info > -- J. Silk Instituut Kern / Universiteit Leiden Leiden University Institute for Area Studies, LIAS Johan Huizinga Building, Room 1.37 Doelensteeg 16 2311 VL Leiden The Netherlands copies of my publications may be found at http://www.buddhismandsocialjustice.com/silk_publications.html -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From malhar at iitb.ac.in Wed May 21 07:49:25 2014 From: malhar at iitb.ac.in (Malhar Arvind Kulkarni) Date: Wed, 21 May 14 13:19:25 +0530 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Android 4+-Swarchakra Keyboard for some indian languages Message-ID: Dear Colleagues, Please find forwarded below a useful announcement circulated by Professor Aniruddha Joshi, Department of IDC, IIT Bombay, Mumbai. Please give feedback to Professor Joshi whose email address is: anirudha at iitb.ac.in with thanks and regards. Malhar Kulkarni. On Wed, May 21, 2014 at 10:27 AM, Anirudha N Joshi wrote: > Dear colleagues, > We are happy to announce that we have recently launched Swarachakra > Bengali keyboard > for Android. If you have an Android 4+ phone, please try it out. The > product is new, so if you notice any errors, please give us your feedback. > Bengali is the ninth language we are supporting on Swarachakra. (We already > support Hindi, > Marathi, > Gujarati, > Kannada, > Malayalam, > Telugu, > Odiaand > Punjabi > ). > > All Swarachakra apps are free to use, so if you like it, please feel free > to share it with your family and friends. > > I must take this opportunity to thank many volunteers who have put in > enormous efforts to bring these products to you. > > Anirudha > - _______________________________________________ NLP-AI mailing list NLP-AI at cse.iitb.ac.in http://miller.cse.iitb.ac.in/mailman/listinfo/nlp-ai -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ambapradeep at gmail.com Wed May 21 08:05:37 2014 From: ambapradeep at gmail.com (Amba Kulkarni) Date: Wed, 21 May 14 13:35:37 +0530 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Android 4+-Swarchakra Keyboard for some indian languages In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Thanks Malhar for the info. Similar keyboards for Android were also launched by Prof G Uma Maheshwar Rao of CALTS, Univ of Hyderabad a few months back. Interested may visit http://caltslab.uohyd.ernet.in/multi.html for more details. With regards, Amba Kulakrni On 21 May 2014 13:19, Malhar Arvind Kulkarni wrote: > Dear Colleagues, > > Please find forwarded below a useful announcement circulated by Professor > Aniruddha Joshi, Department of IDC, IIT Bombay, Mumbai. Please give > feedback to Professor Joshi whose email address is: anirudha at iitb.ac.in > > with thanks and regards. > Malhar Kulkarni. > > > On Wed, May 21, 2014 at 10:27 AM, Anirudha N Joshi > wrote: > > > Dear colleagues, > > We are happy to announce that we have recently launched Swarachakra > > Bengali< > https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=iit.android.swarachakraBengali > > > keyboard > > for Android. If you have an Android 4+ phone, please try it out. The > > product is new, so if you notice any errors, please give us your > feedback. > > Bengali is the ninth language we are supporting on Swarachakra. (We > already > > support > Hindi< > https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=iit.android.swarachakra>, > > Marathi< > https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=iit.android.swarachakraMarathi > >, > > Gujarati< > https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=iit.android.swarachakraGujarati > >, > > Kannada< > https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=iit.android.swarachakraKannada > >, > > Malayalam< > https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=iit.android.swarachakraMalayalam > >, > > Telugu< > https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=iit.android.swarachakraTelugu > >, > > Odia< > https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=iit.android.swarachakraOriya > >and > > Punjabi< > https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=iit.android.swarachakraPunjabi > > > > ). > > > > All Swarachakra apps are free to use, so if you like it, please feel free > > to share it with your family and friends. > > > > I must take this opportunity to thank many volunteers who have put in > > enormous efforts to bring these products to you. > > > > Anirudha > > > > > > - > _______________________________________________ > NLP-AI mailing list > NLP-AI at cse.iitb.ac.in > http://miller.cse.iitb.ac.in/mailman/listinfo/nlp-ai > > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > http://listinfo.indology.info > -- ? ?? ?????: ?????? ????? ??????: ll Let noble thoughts come to us from every side. - Rig Veda, I-89-i. Assoc Prof. and Head Department of Sanskrit Studies University of Hyderabad Prof. C.R. Rao Road Hyderabad-500 046 (91) 040 23133802(off) http://sanskrit.uohyd.ernet.in/scl http://sanskrit.uohyd.ernet.in/faculty/amba -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From franco at uni-leipzig.de Wed May 21 12:22:25 2014 From: franco at uni-leipzig.de (Eli Franco) Date: Wed, 21 May 14 14:22:25 +0200 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Mein Kampf In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20140521142225.69915uj6rlqkfpfl@mail.uni-leipzig.de> Dear Dominik, I received the following message from MLBD: Dear Eli Franco Mein Kampf has not been published by us. It is on our website as we also distribute books of other publishers. However, we deeply appreciate your concern. In response to your petition, we are removing it from our website and catalogue and will stop selling it with immediate effect. We have no words to express our gratitude to you for taking the trouble to write to us. Kindly circulate this mail to all those who have signed the petition and also to those who have not signed it. With regards Poonam Motilal Banarsidass Publishers A 44 Naraina Industrial Area, Phase 1 New Delhi-110028 (INDIA) (Ph): 011 25795180/25793423 (Fax): 011 25797221/23850689 Email: mlbd at mlbd.com/www.mlbd.comZitat von Dominik Wujastyk : > I publicly support Dr. Eltschinger's request to support this petition. I > have signed it myself, and I urge you to do so too if you wish to help > indology in Austria. > > For those not *au courant* with Austrian matters, in January this year, > just three months ago, the Austrian government decided without warning to > discontinue the existence of the Ministry of Science and Research (=higher > education). They moved some of its functions into the Ministry of Economic > Affairs, renamed Ministry of Science, Research and > Economics (Bundesministerium f?r Wissenschaft, Forschung und Wirtschaft). > They split off those parts of the old Ministry concerned specifically with > applied and business-related research and development and gave them to the > Ministry of Transport, Technology and Innovation. > > These moves became law on 1st March, just weeks ago. These changes have > crystallized major uncertainties about the future of funding for academic > research in Austria, uncertainties that were already creating serious > anxieties in the main research councils last year. In general, the academy > in Austria feels itself to be under serious economic threat at this time. > > Best, > -- > Dr Dominik Wujastyk > Department of South Asia, Tibetan and Buddhist > Studies > , > University of Vienna, > Spitalgasse 2-4, Courtyard 2, Entrance 2.1 > 1090 Vienna, Austria > > > > > > On 28 March 2014 21:55, Audrey Truschke wrote: > >> I am forwarding the following message from Vincent Eltschinger. >> >> Dear Madam, Dear Sir, >> A few days ago, I have been asking Dominik whether the Indology list would >> agree that I post a petition launched by the president of the Austrian >> Academy of Sciences, Prof. Anton Zeilinger. The petition concerns all >> researchers based in Austria, which, as you may know, represents one of the >> biggest concentration of Indologists throughout the world. Dominik has >> asked me to ask you, and so I do! >> Here is the link: >> http://www.wissenschaft-ist-zukunft.at/index.php?file=home_uk.htm >> Thank you for having a look and letting me know! >> With best regards and many thanks in advance, >> >> Vincent Eltschinger >> >> Dr. Vincent Eltschinger >> Institute for the Cultural and Intellectual History of Asia >> Deputy Director >> Austrian Academy of Sciences >> Apostelgasse 23 >> A-1030 Vienna >> Vincent.Eltschinger at oeaw.ac.at >> 0043 1 51581 6434 >> 0041 79 7347694 >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> INDOLOGY mailing list >> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info >> http://listinfo.indology.info >> > -- Prof. Dr. Eli Franco Institut f?r Indologie und Zentralasienwissenschaften Schillerstr. 6 04109 Leipzig Ph. +49 341 9737 121, 9737 120 (dept. office) Fax +49 341 9737 148 ---------------------------------------------------------------- This message was sent using IMP, the Internet Messaging Program. From zydenbos at uni-muenchen.de Wed May 21 12:55:36 2014 From: zydenbos at uni-muenchen.de (Robert Zydenbos) Date: Wed, 21 May 14 14:55:36 +0200 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Hitler and MLBD In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <537CA248.4010508@uni-muenchen.de> Dear Dominik (whom I owe more than you probably will ever know), Dominik Wujastyk wrote: > Robert, I do not agree with most of your points. That is no surprise. :-) However, I would like to point out a few relevant matters that have gone unnoticed. You may actually decide to alter the wording of your petition, if you wish to go through with that. Below I will give some more thoughts about what is happening here (see esp. ?Joachim Fest? below), based on information which anybody can read. But first a few clarifications: > It has been said by me and others that the central argument here is > that MLBD as an Indological publisher owned by Jains has no good > justification for publishing /Mein Kampf/. MK is not an Indological > work (and indology is MLBD's main business identity) and it is a > work that promotes cruelty (MLBD is owned by a pious Jain family). Has anybody made the effort to look closely at the MLBD Website http://www.mlbd.com ? Please go there. Then look not at the right edge, but the left edge of the screen. What I see is a list that says ?Administration, Current Events, Fashion, Cooking, Medical,...? Evidently, as booksellers, they already sell anything that is printed. I do not think it appropriate that we label an independent Indian publishing house an ?Indological publisher? and then pretend that we overseas Indologists can decide what they should publish (e.g., whether they should limit themselves to Indological publications or not). Like it or not, they have already diversified. Also, let us leave it to the Jainas (at times, throughout their long history, a persecuted minority, whose traditions I have studied for 38 years) to know how to survive in a pluralistic Indian society with their values intact. To turn the Jainas into a caricature (through a simplistic formula "Jainism = ahi?s?, therefore we will not allow them to even remotely deal with anything violent in world history") is, in my honest opinion, patronizing and not at all appropriate either. > The internal controversy precisely shows how uncomfortable the > Bavarian govt. is about publishing this work, even the crit. ed. It rather shows that the present government is dodgy and lets itself be swayed this way and that by lobbies. I have already given links to the relevant information, incl. the reaction of the leftist (yes! the Greens and the SPD) opposition in parliament. > As we also know, other signs of Nazism are criminal offences in > Germany (SS runes, Hakenkreuz, salutes, slogans, holocaust denial > aimed at incitement, etc.; /Strafgezetzbuch/ para 86a, apparently). This is not relevant here. Possession of the book, also in Germany, is not punishable. In India, with its own laws, the book can be freely sold (like in the USA, for instance). > Consistency: you exactly invert the truth. If the Indian Penal Code > can be used to prevent the publication of relatively harmless > academic books, then let it also be used for its original purpose, to > prevent the publication of genuine hate literature. Let the law of > the land be used to do some good. To clarify: I wrote about consistency in the stance of the overseas academic community, not about an impossible consistency spanning several Indian publishers and diverse sections of the Indian populace. I am not aware that, in this case, that Indian law has been invoked in India by any person who has felt aggrieved. The continued existence of other editions of Mein Kampf since decades sufficiently shows that this is so. > Effectiveness: "The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is > for good men to do nothing." -- Edmund Burke That is a nice quote, even if it is apocryphal (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edmund_Burke#Good_men_do_nothing). I am concerned about the condescending, really very eurocentric displays of emotionalism in this thread which are unlikely to generate any real understanding in India, but resentment instead. (I remember a soft-mannered Indian diplomat (!) here in Munich who once innocently asked me: ?Why is everybody here so upset by the use of a good word like ?Aryan???) > [...] when I have conversations with friends in India about the > European experiences during the two World Wars, they are often > horrified and had no idea beforehand about the Holocaust and other > facts. > > Superfluousness: Yes the book is not on the front page of MLBD's > website today. But they are apparently still selling Mein Kampf, > together with a DVD of a film. Please, Dominik... stay cool, have a good look and read the text (http://www.mlbd.com/BookDecription.aspx?id=14737). That film is a documentary by Joachim Fest, Germany's best-known historian for the Nazi period (see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joachim_Fest ? I love the last sentence in that article). The film: https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hitler_%E2%80%93_Eine_Karriere That film is just the sort of thing which we WANT to see distributed anywhere, also in India. The idea of packaging the film by Fest with that book is excellent. It is a way of saying ?here is that book that everybody is reading ? together with a serious explanation of just what it is.? > It seems that they have changed the edition that they are selling, or > at least the covers illustration. I am not yet sure about the meaning > of this change. Offering the award-winning Fest film suggests that the meaning is to seriously inform the public. My conclusion, for the time being, is that MLBD may be doing something brilliant: jumping onto the bandwagon and at the same time diverting the course of that bandwagon. It is constructive engagement. Why should anyone want to stop that? > "Discriminatory"? How? Because we haven't written to every > publisher? I will tell you how. My use of the word ?discriminatory? was meant as a short recapitulation of what I wrote earlier in that same posting of mine: ?What effectively is being said is ?Americans and Israelis should read the book, but it is too dangerous for you foolish Indians to have it?.? And I believe it is VERY bad for Indologists (of all people!) to create such an impression. The way things stand now, it almost seems that you are rebuking MLBD because they want to distribute a genuinely informative film along with the book (which booksellers and publishers like Amazon, Jaico a.o. do not do). > "Not Indological?" Well, that's point, isn't it? Why should an > Indological publisher promote Mein Kampf? Please forget about MLBD being an ?Indological publisher? (see above). It is not a valid argument. Furthermore, one can hardly call it ?promoting? when MK is bundled with the Fest documentary. > Or do you mean that we shouldn't discuss this issue because it isn't > Indological? I am discussing it! But a serious Indologist who deals also with contemporary India and its more recent cultural history and living culture must also take into consideration ?the complex dynamics of Indian democracy today?, as Ram-Prasad Chakravarthi rightly mentioned. > "Publicitywise counter-productive"? We don't yet know, do we? MLBD > has removed the advertisement from their website's front page > already, within 24 hours. (Without your petition, mind you. Think about that.) I am thinking of possible headlines like: ?Arrogant Western ?Indologists? tell Indians to read Doniger's blasphemous, perverted fantasies, want to forbid Indians to read embarrassing historical text from the West?, or ?Forget real history, Indians! Go for Wendy's sick dreams?. > You want MLBD to sell Mein Kampf? I would also like people to stop selling cigarettes, pornography, and a few other things. (I believe cigarettes kill more people than Mein Kampf does.) Selling MK together with the Fest film? Not a bad idea, as I have explained above. And I would like to repeat my question: has anybody seen this MLBD edition? (No, of course not.) Does it have (like the translation which I have) an explanatory preface that says people have a right to see this classical text about a criminal mentality, so that they can recognize it when it crops up again? And how many of us have seen that DVD with the Fest film? If any reader here wishes to join the petition, thinking that this will give him / her a nice, warm feeling, then of course I cannot stop them. Nor can I prevent any smug, ill-informed, knee-jerk politically correct, patronizing, see-how-good-I-am statements from being made. But in view of everything that I have said here and in my previous posting, let it be understood that I cannot join. I also thank those list members who, unwilling to jump into the emotionalized fray for a variety of reasons, have written words of appreciation to me off-list. Sincerely, Robert P.S. Before anyone thinks up cute ideas: I am not a German (I just work here in Munich). The study of contemporary India is part of my professional duty. I have no Nazis among my relatives, but I do have Jews among them, also in my ancestry. I too lost relatives in WW2 whom I never met. And nobody is paying me to write these postings. -- Prof. Dr. Robert J. Zydenbos Institute of Indology and Tibetology Department of Asian Studies University of Munich Germany Tel. (+49-89-) 2180-5782 Fax (+49-89-) 2180-5827 Web http://zydenbos.userweb.mwn.de/ From zydenbos at uni-muenchen.de Wed May 21 13:02:34 2014 From: zydenbos at uni-muenchen.de (Robert Zydenbos) Date: Wed, 21 May 14 15:02:34 +0200 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Mein Kampf In-Reply-To: <20140521142225.69915uj6rlqkfpfl@mail.uni-leipzig.de> Message-ID: <537CA3EA.1010606@uni-muenchen.de> That is regrettable, for all the reasons I have stated. I had expected more backbone from MLBD. Robert Zydenbos Eli Franco wrote: > Dear Dominik, > I received the following message from MLBD: > > Dear Eli Franco > > Mein Kampf has not been published by us. It is on our website as we also > distribute books of other publishers. However, we deeply appreciate your > concern. In response to your petition, we are removing it from our > website and catalogue and will stop selling it with immediate effect. [...] From jemhouben at gmail.com Wed May 21 13:39:43 2014 From: jemhouben at gmail.com (Jan E.M. Houben) Date: Wed, 21 May 14 15:39:43 +0200 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Mein Kampf In-Reply-To: <537CA3EA.1010606@uni-muenchen.de> Message-ID: So who is here emotionally attached to a new (from availability point of view superfluous) publication of Mein Kampf including since a few days for the increased price of 25 Rs the DVD of a film about Hitler that is out since 1977? Geeft niks, Jan NB From a memetic point of view MLBD's (and Robert's) work is done: the petition-publicity has been made and I am sure even now MLBD will get the packet for you at your home address if you order it from anywhere in the world. On 21 May 2014 15:02, Robert Zydenbos wrote: > That is regrettable, for all the reasons I have stated. I had expected > more backbone from MLBD. > > Robert Zydenbos > > > Eli Franco wrote: > >> Dear Dominik, >> I received the following message from MLBD: >> >> Dear Eli Franco >> >> Mein Kampf has not been published by us. It is on our website as we also >> distribute books of other publishers. However, we deeply appreciate your >> concern. In response to your petition, we are removing it from our >> website and catalogue and will stop selling it with immediate effect. >> [...] >> > > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > http://listinfo.indology.info > -- Prof. Dr. Jan E.M. Houben, Directeur d Etudes ? Sources et Histoire de la Tradition Sanskrite ? Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes, SHP, A la Sorbonne,45-47, rue des Ecoles, 75005 Paris -- France. JEMHouben at gmail.com www.jyotistoma.nl -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From wujastyk at gmail.com Wed May 21 14:39:39 2014 From: wujastyk at gmail.com (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Wed, 21 May 14 16:39:39 +0200 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Hitler and MLBD In-Reply-To: <537CA248.4010508@uni-muenchen.de> Message-ID: ?Thank you for your kind words, Robert. On 21 May 2014 14:55, Robert Zydenbos wrote: > > I am concerned about the condescending, really very eurocentric > displays of emotionalism in this thread which are unlikely to generate > any real understanding in India, but resentment instead. (I remember a > soft-mannered Indian diplomat (!) here in Munich who once innocently > asked me: ?Why is everybody here so upset by the use of a good word like > ?Aryan???) > ?There is a view held amongst ?some Indian citizens that nobody who isn't Indian (or a Hindu) has the right to say anything challenging or interpretative about Indian history and culture. "If you're not Indian, you have no right to a voice." Similarly, can an atheist be allowed to write about Christianity, or a Jew about Islamic history, etc. etc.? I do not agree with that view. I don't think you do either. But I think we teeter towards that false view when we start worrying about our serious views being interpreted as condescension. In my letter, I was speaking to the adults at MLBD as an adult myself. I *do* suspect that they may be inadequately informed about the horrors of Nazism in Europe, but that is not the same as condescension. I admire and care about MLBD, I've had lunch with members of the family at their homes, visited the doctor with them when they were sick, etc. It is because of my positive feelings to the MLBD family and business that I consider it worthwhile to engage with them about this topic. (I do not care enough to engage with Biblia Impex, for example, who are far more reprehensible, in my view.) Anybody whose view or judgement is being challenged is likely to feel resentment. It's a psychological fact. That's no reason to refrain from making the challenge or for calling such a challenge "condescension." Sometimes people in India, like people anywhere, make mistakes or act inappropriately. If such people resent this being discussed, then I'm sorry but, like everyone, they must suck it up. ?Your point about the film by Joachim Fest is quite strong, I think. In the MLBD Newsletter ?and the first version of the web advertisement, there was no mention of Fest's film being part of the item offered for sale. Now the web advert has changed, and it seems that the book, MK, is accompanied by the film. If it is really MLBD's intention to frame the book as part of a narrative about the evils of Nazism, then that needs to be very explicit, and present in all the locations that they advertise. Up to now, this was not so. But perhaps that is a way they could go. However, I would point out that Fest's "Eine Karriere" film was not received without criticism. According to the English WP article linked from the source you cite, the film, which was intended to explain why ordinary people in Germany loved Hitler, created some controversy among some critics such as the American historian Deborah Lipstadt who wrote that, by featuring extensive clips of Hitler from propaganda films while totally ignoring the Holocaust, Fest had engaged in a glorification of the *F?hrer*. [3] In the Indian context, and when shown to audiences innocent of Fest's other work and of the historical context of German Vergangenheitsbew?ltigung, it seems to me that MLBD could have made a better choice if they wished to accompany their *Mein Kampf* with materials providing critical contextualization. I do not see Fest's controversial film as adequately sanitizing MK for safe consumption in contemporary India. Fest's use of extensive film archive showing that Hitler was lionized by the German population could be taken in exactly the wrong way if not contextualized. It's like asserting that Mein Kampf is a harmless book because it's terribly boring. Well, yes, but no. Similarly with Fest's film. It's meant one way, but could be taken another. If MLBD seriously wants to get into Nazi studies, then they might be better advised to publish books like those of Bullock and Trevor-Roper, the film *Der Untergang*, and many other books and media that make the case unequivocally. ?? ?? > ?What effectively is being said is ?Americans and Israelis should read the > book, but it is too dangerous for you foolish Indians to have it?.? > ?This is a straw man.? It's not what I think or what I said. Nor is it implied in what I said. I don't think any of us in this discussion is so naive or misguided. What I *do* think is that with a book like MK it is critical to consider reception. The *way* MK may be read by an average reader in Israel or America is quite different from the way it would be read in Bavaria, or indeed in a BJP-led India. Cultural context determines reception. The presuppositions, historical background, educational presuppositions, and present politics all mean that distributing MK in India is a semiotically entirely different act than distributing it in, say, Israel. It's not about foolishness or otherwise, it's about meaning. "Publicitywise counter-productive"? We don't yet know, do we? MLBD > has removed the advertisement from their website's front page > already, within 24 hours. > (Without your petition, mind you. Think about that.) > ?but a day *after* I sent them my letter. They may still be unaware of the petition - I personally have not drawn it to their attention. It only goes to them formally when the petition closes. Think about that. ? > And I would like to repeat my question: has anybody seen this MLBD > edition? (No, of course not.) Does it have (like the translation which I > have) an explanatory preface that says people have a right to see this > classical text about a criminal mentality, so that they can recognize it > when it crops up again? And how many of us have seen that DVD with the > Fest film? > ?None of this matters, since people will buy MLBD's Mein Kampf on the basis of their advertisements, and the advertisements have not been unequivocal about what is being sold. > If any reader here wishes to join the petition, thinking that this will > give him / her a nice, warm feeling, then of course I cannot stop them. Nor can I prevent any smug, ill-informed, knee-jerk politically correct, > patronizing, see-how-good-I-am statements from being made. But in view of > everything that I have said here and in my previous posting, let it be > understood that I cannot join. > ??It doesn't help a serious conversation to insult your opponents or belittle their views.? ?You return several times to characterizing the views of others in this debate as emotionalism. It isn't obvious to me that the people who hold views different from yours are all suffering from excess emotion. It also isn't the case that emotion is the opposite of reason. ?Best, Dominik -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From wujastyk at gmail.com Wed May 21 14:45:03 2014 From: wujastyk at gmail.com (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Wed, 21 May 14 16:45:03 +0200 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Mein Kampf In-Reply-To: Message-ID: ?What a gracious letter. I am very impressed by this response. Best regards, Dominik Wujastyk? ----------------------------------------------- Dear Eli Franco Mein Kampf has not been published by us. It is on our website as we also distribute books of other publishers. However, we deeply appreciate your concern. In response to your petition, we are removing it from our website and catalogue and will stop selling it with immediate effect. We have no words to express our gratitude to you for taking the trouble to write to us. Kindly circulate this mail to all those who have signed the petition and also to those who have not signed it. With regards Poonam Motilal Banarsidass Publishers A 44 Naraina Industrial Area, Phase 1 New Delhi-110028 (INDIA) (Ph): 011 25795180/25793423 (Fax): 011 25797221/23850689 Email: mlbd at mlbd.com/www.mlbd.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From paolo.magnone at unicatt.it Wed May 21 14:53:23 2014 From: paolo.magnone at unicatt.it (Paolo Magnone) Date: Wed, 21 May 14 16:53:23 +0200 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Hitler and MLBD In-Reply-To: <537CA248.4010508@uni-muenchen.de> Message-ID: <537CBDE2.10802@unicatt.it> Dear list, I resisted being dragged into this discussion, since right now I really do not have the time to spare. Still, lest I regret my supineness later, I feel I must take up my stand besides Robert, who has let a much needed dissenting voice be heard in a forum where, it seems, too many birds of a feather flock together. I second his every word, to which I would add a couple more of my own: 1. I personally do not endorse the suppression of any BOOK, whether it be written by Hitler or by Satan in person. This is a very dangerous attitude which has often ended up in most unwelcome consequences, from the Qin great Burning of the Books, which we must thank for knowing virtually nothing genuine of ancient Chinese thought, onwards. And, you know, somebody?s ?great Satan? may easily be different from someone else?s? 2. For that matter, I do not even endorse the suppression of any THOUGHTS ? there, I have uttered this blasphemy! In the West, beside the alien tradition of the ?holier than you? attitude and the attending crusade calls amply exemplified in this thread, we have another tradition, which I love better, of preferring critique over censorship. Unfortunately, nowadays a new cheap dogmatism of mind-benumbing shibboleths like democracy, freedom (whatever it may mean in the present context) with its appendage, freemarket (which is the real aim of it all) etc. is taking over the older church dogmatism in an appalling fashion. 3. What MLBD chooses to publish, and their motives for publishing it, is none of our business. Western publishers are known for promoting whatever will bring money, irrespective of its worth. Even ?indological? essays have been published by prestigious Western publishers whose main thrust (as can be gathered from their titles) lies in titillating the layman?s base instincts (I will not enter into which (essays) I regard as such). 4. On a lighter note, the whole affair reminds me of the petty clerk tyrannized by his boss who takes out his frustraton on his wife and children. Sanksrit chairs are closed down all over the place, university courses are managed by ignorant administratives like productive units of a company without scholars ever having a say, corporate companies are taking upon themselves to decide what is worth studying and what is not, but what we do to prove our weight and influence is call to account a FREE Indian publishing house for their publishing policy! Sorry if anyone should feel offended by my remarks, but, as they say, amicus Plato, sed magis amica veritas. With best wishes, Paolo Magnone Sanskrit Language and Literature Catholic University of the Sacred Heart - Milan Study of Religions III (Hinduism) & IV (Buddhism) Theological Faculty of Northern Italy - Milan Jambudvipa - Indology and Sanskrit Studies (www.jambudvipa.net) On 21/05/2014 14:55, Robert Zydenbos wrote: Dear Dominik (whom I owe more than you probably will ever know), Dominik Wujastyk wrote: Robert, I do not agree with most of your points. That is no surprise. :-) However, I would like to point out a few relevant matters that have gone unnoticed. You may actually decide to alter the wording of your petition, if you wish to go through with that. Below I will give some more thoughts about what is happening here (see esp. ?Joachim Fest? below), based on information which anybody can read. But first a few clarifications: It has been said by me and others that the central argument here is that MLBD as an Indological publisher owned by Jains has no good justification for publishing /Mein Kampf/. MK is not an Indological work (and indology is MLBD's main business identity) and it is a work that promotes cruelty (MLBD is owned by a pious Jain family). Has anybody made the effort to look closely at the MLBD Website http://www.mlbd.com ? Please go there. Then look not at the right edge, but the left edge of the screen. What I see is a list that says ?Administration, Current Events, Fashion, Cooking, Medical,...? Evidently, as booksellers, they already sell anything that is printed. I do not think it appropriate that we label an independent Indian publishing house an ?Indological publisher? and then pretend that we overseas Indologists can decide what they should publish (e.g., whether they should limit themselves to Indological publications or not). Like it or not, they have already diversified. Also, let us leave it to the Jainas (at times, throughout their long history, a persecuted minority, whose traditions I have studied for 38 years) to know how to survive in a pluralistic Indian society with their values intact. To turn the Jainas into a caricature (through a simplistic formula "Jainism = ahi?s?, therefore we will not allow them to even remotely deal with anything violent in world history") is, in my honest opinion, patronizing and not at all appropriate either. The internal controversy precisely shows how uncomfortable the Bavarian govt. is about publishing this work, even the crit. ed. It rather shows that the present government is dodgy and lets itself be swayed this way and that by lobbies. I have already given links to the relevant information, incl. the reaction of the leftist (yes! the Greens and the SPD) opposition in parliament. As we also know, other signs of Nazism are criminal offences in Germany (SS runes, Hakenkreuz, salutes, slogans, holocaust denial aimed at incitement, etc.; /Strafgezetzbuch/ para 86a, apparently). This is not relevant here. Possession of the book, also in Germany, is not punishable. In India, with its own laws, the book can be freely sold (like in the USA, for instance). Consistency: you exactly invert the truth. If the Indian Penal Code can be used to prevent the publication of relatively harmless academic books, then let it also be used for its original purpose, to prevent the publication of genuine hate literature. Let the law of the land be used to do some good. To clarify: I wrote about consistency in the stance of the overseas academic community, not about an impossible consistency spanning several Indian publishers and diverse sections of the Indian populace. I am not aware that, in this case, that Indian law has been invoked in India by any person who has felt aggrieved. The continued existence of other editions of Mein Kampf since decades sufficiently shows that this is so. Effectiveness: "The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." -- Edmund Burke That is a nice quote, even if it is apocryphal (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edmund_Burke#Good_men_do_nothing). I am concerned about the condescending, really very eurocentric displays of emotionalism in this thread which are unlikely to generate any real understanding in India, but resentment instead. (I remember a soft-mannered Indian diplomat (!) here in Munich who once innocently asked me: ?Why is everybody here so upset by the use of a good word like ?Aryan???) [...] when I have conversations with friends in India about the European experiences during the two World Wars, they are often horrified and had no idea beforehand about the Holocaust and other facts. Superfluousness: Yes the book is not on the front page of MLBD's website today. But they are apparently still selling Mein Kampf, together with a DVD of a film. Please, Dominik... stay cool, have a good look and read the text (http://www.mlbd.com/BookDecription.aspx?id=14737). That film is a documentary by Joachim Fest, Germany's best-known historian for the Nazi period (see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joachim_Fest ? I love the last sentence in that article). The film: https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hitler_%E2%80%93_Eine_Karriere That film is just the sort of thing which we WANT to see distributed anywhere, also in India. The idea of packaging the film by Fest with that book is excellent. It is a way of saying ?here is that book that everybody is reading ? together with a serious explanation of just what it is.? It seems that they have changed the edition that they are selling, or at least the covers illustration. I am not yet sure about the meaning of this change. Offering the award-winning Fest film suggests that the meaning is to seriously inform the public. My conclusion, for the time being, is that MLBD may be doing something brilliant: jumping onto the bandwagon and at the same time diverting the course of that bandwagon. It is constructive engagement. Why should anyone want to stop that? "Discriminatory"? How? Because we haven't written to every publisher? I will tell you how. My use of the word ?discriminatory? was meant as a short recapitulation of what I wrote earlier in that same posting of mine: ?What effectively is being said is ?Americans and Israelis should read the book, but it is too dangerous for you foolish Indians to have it?.? And I believe it is VERY bad for Indologists (of all people!) to create such an impression. The way things stand now, it almost seems that you are rebuking MLBD because they want to distribute a genuinely informative film along with the book (which booksellers and publishers like Amazon, Jaico a.o. do not do). "Not Indological?" Well, that's point, isn't it? Why should an Indological publisher promote Mein Kampf? Please forget about MLBD being an ?Indological publisher? (see above). It is not a valid argument. Furthermore, one can hardly call it ?promoting? when MK is bundled with the Fest documentary. Or do you mean that we shouldn't discuss this issue because it isn't Indological? I am discussing it! But a serious Indologist who deals also with contemporary India and its more recent cultural history and living culture must also take into consideration ?the complex dynamics of Indian democracy today?, as Ram-Prasad Chakravarthi rightly mentioned. "Publicitywise counter-productive"? We don't yet know, do we? MLBD has removed the advertisement from their website's front page already, within 24 hours. (Without your petition, mind you. Think about that.) I am thinking of possible headlines like: ?Arrogant Western ?Indologists? tell Indians to read Doniger's blasphemous, perverted fantasies, want to forbid Indians to read embarrassing historical text from the West?, or ?Forget real history, Indians! Go for Wendy's sick dreams?. You want MLBD to sell Mein Kampf? I would also like people to stop selling cigarettes, pornography, and a few other things. (I believe cigarettes kill more people than Mein Kampf does.) Selling MK together with the Fest film? Not a bad idea, as I have explained above. And I would like to repeat my question: has anybody seen this MLBD edition? (No, of course not.) Does it have (like the translation which I have) an explanatory preface that says people have a right to see this classical text about a criminal mentality, so that they can recognize it when it crops up again? And how many of us have seen that DVD with the Fest film? If any reader here wishes to join the petition, thinking that this will give him / her a nice, warm feeling, then of course I cannot stop them. Nor can I prevent any smug, ill-informed, knee-jerk politically correct, patronizing, see-how-good-I-am statements from being made. But in view of everything that I have said here and in my previous posting, let it be understood that I cannot join. I also thank those list members who, unwilling to jump into the emotionalized fray for a variety of reasons, have written words of appreciation to me off-list. Sincerely, Robert P.S. Before anyone thinks up cute ideas: I am not a German (I just work here in Munich). The study of contemporary India is part of my professional duty. I have no Nazis among my relatives, but I do have Jews among them, also in my ancestry. I too lost relatives in WW2 whom I never met. And nobody is paying me to write these postings. ________________________________ Messaggio istituzionale Ricerca, Formazione, Assistenza, Cooperazione e Sviluppo: 5 ragioni per metterci la firma. Grazie a un gesto semplice puoi sostenere le iniziative dell?Ateneo dei cattolici italiani e del Policlinico ?A. Gemelli?. Sottoscrivi il 5 per mille a favore dell'Universit? Cattolica. Info: www.unicatt.it/5permille ________________________________ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From v.a.van.bijlert at vu.nl Wed May 21 16:06:55 2014 From: v.a.van.bijlert at vu.nl (Bijlert, V.A. van) Date: Wed, 21 May 14 16:06:55 +0000 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Hitler and MLBD Message-ID: As a belated reaction the following remarks: Perhaps Indians should actually read Mein Kampf very thoroughly and see that Herr Hitler was vehemently opposed to Indian independence from Britain. Chapter 14 entitled in German: Ostorientierung und Ostpolitik, (p 746 ff edition 1934). Htiler was even aware of Indian revolutionaries staying in Berlin but he thought nothing of them. India should forever remain under British (ie white Aryan) Herrschaft. I agree that in order to reach these passages one has had to wade through the whole book. Actually Hitler disdained Indians and their culture, even Hindu culture. It was Heinrich Himmler who allegedly admired Hinduism. I might add that the indological contributions to the 'thought' of some leading national socialist ideologues would be an important and fascinating historical topic of research. I am not sure if I would agree with asking Motilall Banarsidass to stop reprinting or republishing Mein Kampf. After all, the book is available in almost every large railway station in India. I, at least, have seen it in Howrah station and in Delhi. Yours truly Victor van Bijlert ________________________________ Dr. Victor A. van Bijlert Associate professor Religious Studies Department of Philosophy of Religion and Comparative Study of Religions Faculty of Theology, VU University De Boelelaan 1105, NL-1081 HV Amsterdam, The Netherlands v.a.van.bijlert at vu.nl +31613184203 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From kauzeya at gmail.com Wed May 21 16:43:57 2014 From: kauzeya at gmail.com (Jonathan Silk) Date: Wed, 21 May 14 09:43:57 -0700 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Hitler and MLBD In-Reply-To: <537CBDE2.10802@unicatt.it> Message-ID: Dear Colleagues, I am afraid that the comments by Prof Magnone cannot go without clarification. There is a deep and fundamental difference between suppressing books and thoughts--which requires coercive power, in principle of the state or a semi-state apparatus--and working actively to discourage distribution of ideas with which one does not agree. I would insist that this distinction is absolutely basic! (Yes, I would take this to its logical conclusion, as many would not, but I leave that for another day): I do not have to *suppress* anything to say to a movie theatre: if you show violent films, I will not patronize your establishment, I will discourage others from doing so, and I will pay for advertisements in the newspaper to discourage others. This has nothing to do with suppression, it is an exercise of freedom of choice. There is therefore absolutely nothing, logically or legally, of suppression in writing to MLBD and saying: if you sell this, I won't allow you to sell my book, I won't buy books from you, I will discourage others from buying books from you. This, Prof Magnone, is what democracy is all about, this is what freedom is all about. I have a right to buy from whom I wish; anyone has a right to (try to) sell to whomever they wish, but I can tell them: I won't buy from you, so if it is important to you to sell to *me* (in case, me = we Indologists, or as it seems at least some of us), then you might want to rethink what you do. Aside from one or two perhaps not entirely serious remarks earlier in the discussion of using the Doniger law to attack MLBD, I don't think anyone--and certainly not I--want to use anything remotely approaching recourse to the courts to stop the distribution of this book. It is rather akin to saying: you can invite whomever you like to your party, but if you want to see me there, then make sure that you dont invite Mr X. I won't be in the same room with him; you choose whom you would like to see present. Cordially, Jonathan Silk On Wed, May 21, 2014 at 7:53 AM, Paolo Magnone wrote: > Dear list, > > I resisted being dragged into this discussion, since right now I really do > not have the time to spare. Still, lest I regret my supineness later, I > feel I must take up my stand besides Robert, who > > has let a much needed dissenting voice be heard in a forum where, it > seems, too many birds of a feather flock together. I second his every word, > to which I would add a couple more of my own: > > 1. I personally do not endorse the suppression of any BOOK, whether it > be written by Hitler or by Satan in person. This is a very dangerous > attitude which has often ended up in most unwelcome consequences, from the > Qin great Burning of the Books, which we must thank for knowing virtually > nothing genuine of ancient Chinese thought, onwards. And, you know, > somebody?s ?great Satan? may easily be different from someone else?s? > 2. For that matter, I do not even endorse the suppression of any > THOUGHTS ? there, I have uttered this blasphemy! In the West, beside the > alien tradition of the ?holier than you? attitude and the attending crusade > calls amply exemplified in this thread, we have another tradition, which I > love better, of preferring critique over censorship. Unfortunately, > nowadays a new cheap dogmatism of mind-benumbing shibboleths like > democracy, freedom (whatever it may mean in the present context) with its > appendage, freemarket (which is the real aim of it all) etc. is taking over > the older church dogmatism in an appalling fashion. > 3. What MLBD chooses to publish, and their motives for publishing it, > is none of our business. Western publishers are known for promoting > whatever will bring money, irrespective of its worth. Even ?indological? > essays have been published by prestigious Western publishers whose main > thrust (as can be gathered from their titles) lies in titillating the > layman?s base instincts (I will not enter into which (essays) I regard as > such). > 4. On a lighter note, the whole affair reminds me of the petty clerk > tyrannized by his boss who takes out his frustraton on his wife and > children. Sanksrit chairs are closed down all over the place, university > courses are managed by ignorant administratives like productive units of a > company without scholars ever having a say, corporate companies are taking > upon themselves to decide what is worth studying and what is not, but what > we do to prove our weight and influence is call to account a FREE Indian > publishing house for their publishing policy! > > Sorry if anyone should feel offended by my remarks, but, as they say, > *amicus Plato, sed magis amica veritas. *With best wishes, > > Paolo Magnone > Sanskrit Language and Literature > Catholic University of the Sacred Heart - Milan > Study of Religions III (Hinduism) & IV (Buddhism) > Theological Faculty of Northern Italy - Milan > > Jambudvipa - Indology and Sanskrit Studies (www.jambudvipa.net) > On 21/05/2014 14:55, Robert Zydenbos wrote: > > Dear Dominik (whom I owe more than you probably will ever know), > > Dominik Wujastyk wrote: > > > Robert, I do not agree with most of your points. > > That is no surprise. :-) However, I would like to point out a few > relevant matters that have gone unnoticed. You may actually decide to > alter the wording of your petition, if you wish to go through with that. > > Below I will give some more thoughts about what is happening here (see > esp. ?Joachim Fest? below), based on information which anybody can read. > But first a few clarifications: > > > It has been said by me and others that the central argument here is > that MLBD as an Indological publisher owned by Jains has no good > justification for publishing /Mein Kampf/. MK is not an Indological > work (and indology is MLBD's main business identity) and it is a > work that promotes cruelty (MLBD is owned by a pious Jain family). > > Has anybody made the effort to look closely at the MLBD Website http://www.mlbd.com ? Please go there. Then look not at the right edge, > but the left edge of the screen. What I see is a list that says > ?Administration, Current Events, Fashion, Cooking, Medical,...? > Evidently, as booksellers, they already sell anything that is printed. > > I do not think it appropriate that we label an independent Indian > publishing house an ?Indological publisher? and then pretend that we > overseas Indologists can decide what they should publish (e.g., whether > they should limit themselves to Indological publications or not). Like > it or not, they have already diversified. > > Also, let us leave it to the Jainas (at times, throughout their long > history, a persecuted minority, whose traditions I have studied for 38 > years) to know how to survive in a pluralistic Indian society with their > values intact. To turn the Jainas into a caricature (through a > simplistic formula "Jainism = ahi?s?, therefore we will not allow them > to even remotely deal with anything violent in world history") is, in my > honest opinion, patronizing and not at all appropriate either. > > > The internal controversy precisely shows how uncomfortable the > Bavarian govt. is about publishing this work, even the crit. ed. > > It rather shows that the present government is dodgy and lets itself be > swayed this way and that by lobbies. I have already given links to the > relevant information, incl. the reaction of the leftist (yes! the Greens > and the SPD) opposition in parliament. > > > As we also know, other signs of Nazism are criminal offences in > Germany (SS runes, Hakenkreuz, salutes, slogans, holocaust denial > aimed at incitement, etc.; /Strafgezetzbuch/ para 86a, apparently). > > This is not relevant here. Possession of the book, also in Germany, is > not punishable. In India, with its own laws, the book can be freely sold > (like in the USA, for instance). > > > Consistency: you exactly invert the truth. If the Indian Penal Code > can be used to prevent the publication of relatively harmless > academic books, then let it also be used for its original purpose, to > prevent the publication of genuine hate literature. Let the law of > the land be used to do some good. > > To clarify: I wrote about consistency in the stance of the overseas > academic community, not about an impossible consistency spanning several > Indian publishers and diverse sections of the Indian populace. > > I am not aware that, in this case, that Indian law has been invoked in > India by any person who has felt aggrieved. The continued existence of > other editions of Mein Kampf since decades sufficiently shows that this > is so. > > > Effectiveness: "The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is > for good men to do nothing." -- Edmund Burke > > That is a nice quote, even if it is apocryphal > (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edmund_Burke#Good_men_do_nothing). > > I am concerned about the condescending, really very eurocentric > displays of emotionalism in this thread which are unlikely to generate > any real understanding in India, but resentment instead. (I remember a > soft-mannered Indian diplomat (!) here in Munich who once innocently > asked me: ?Why is everybody here so upset by the use of a good word like > ?Aryan???) > > > [...] when I have conversations with friends in India about the > European experiences during the two World Wars, they are often > horrified and had no idea beforehand about the Holocaust and other > facts. > > Superfluousness: Yes the book is not on the front page of MLBD's > website today. But they are apparently still selling Mein Kampf, > together with a DVD of a film. > > Please, Dominik... stay cool, have a good look and read the text > (http://www.mlbd.com/BookDecription.aspx?id=14737). That film is a > documentary by Joachim Fest, Germany's best-known historian for the > Nazi period (see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joachim_Fest ? I love the > last sentence in that article). > > The film: https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hitler_%E2%80%93_Eine_Karriere > > That film is just the sort of thing which we WANT to see distributed > anywhere, also in India. > > The idea of packaging the film by Fest with that book is excellent. It > is a way of saying ?here is that book that everybody is reading ? > together with a serious explanation of just what it is.? > > > It seems that they have changed the edition that they are selling, or > at least the covers illustration. I am not yet sure about the meaning > of this change. > > Offering the award-winning Fest film suggests that the meaning is to > seriously inform the public. > > My conclusion, for the time being, is that MLBD may be doing something > brilliant: jumping onto the bandwagon and at the same time diverting the > course of that bandwagon. It is constructive engagement. Why should > anyone want to stop that? > > > "Discriminatory"? How? Because we haven't written to every > publisher? > > I will tell you how. My use of the word ?discriminatory? was meant as a > short recapitulation of what I wrote earlier in that same posting of > mine: ?What effectively is being said is ?Americans and Israelis should > read the book, but it is too dangerous for you foolish Indians to have > it?.? And I believe it is VERY bad for Indologists (of all people!) to > create such an impression. > > The way things stand now, it almost seems that you are rebuking MLBD > because they want to distribute a genuinely informative film along with > the book (which booksellers and publishers like Amazon, Jaico a.o. do > not do). > > > "Not Indological?" Well, that's point, isn't it? Why should an > Indological publisher promote Mein Kampf? > > Please forget about MLBD being an ?Indological publisher? (see above). > It is not a valid argument. > > Furthermore, one can hardly call it ?promoting? when MK is bundled with > the Fest documentary. > > > Or do you mean that we shouldn't discuss this issue because it isn't > Indological? > > I am discussing it! But a serious Indologist who deals also with > contemporary India and its more recent cultural history and living > culture must also take into consideration ?the complex dynamics of > Indian democracy today?, as Ram-Prasad Chakravarthi rightly mentioned. > > > "Publicitywise counter-productive"? We don't yet know, do we? MLBD > has removed the advertisement from their website's front page > already, within 24 hours. > > (Without your petition, mind you. Think about that.) > > I am thinking of possible headlines like: ?Arrogant Western > ?Indologists? tell Indians to read Doniger's blasphemous, perverted > fantasies, want to forbid Indians to read embarrassing historical text > from the West?, or ?Forget real history, Indians! Go for Wendy's sick > dreams?. > > > You want MLBD to sell Mein Kampf? > > I would also like people to stop selling cigarettes, pornography, and a > few other things. (I believe cigarettes kill more people than Mein Kampf > does.) > > Selling MK together with the Fest film? Not a bad idea, as I have > explained above. > > And I would like to repeat my question: has anybody seen this MLBD > edition? (No, of course not.) Does it have (like the translation which I > have) an explanatory preface that says people have a right to see this > classical text about a criminal mentality, so that they can recognize it > when it crops up again? And how many of us have seen that DVD with the > Fest film? > > If any reader here wishes to join the petition, thinking that this will > give him / her a nice, warm feeling, then of course I cannot stop them. > Nor can I prevent any smug, ill-informed, knee-jerk politically correct, > patronizing, see-how-good-I-am statements from being made. But in view > of everything that I have said here and in my previous posting, let it > be understood that I cannot join. > > I also thank those list members who, unwilling to jump into the > emotionalized fray for a variety of reasons, have written words of > appreciation to me off-list. > > Sincerely, > > Robert > > P.S. Before anyone thinks up cute ideas: I am not a German (I just work > here in Munich). The study of contemporary India is part of my > professional duty. I have no Nazis among my relatives, but I do have > Jews among them, also in my ancestry. I too lost relatives in WW2 whom I > never met. And nobody is paying me to write these postings. > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > > > * Messaggio istituzionale Ricerca, Formazione, Assistenza, Cooperazione e > Sviluppo: 5 ragioni per metterci la firma. Grazie a un gesto semplice puoi > sostenere le iniziative dell?Ateneo dei cattolici italiani e del > Policlinico ?A. Gemelli?. Sottoscrivi il 5 per mille a favore > dell'Universit? Cattolica. Info: www.unicatt.it/5permille > * > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > http://listinfo.indology.info > -- J. Silk Instituut Kern / Universiteit Leiden Leiden University Institute for Area Studies, LIAS Johan Huizinga Building, Room 1.37 Doelensteeg 16 2311 VL Leiden The Netherlands copies of my publications may be found at http://www.buddhismandsocialjustice.com/silk_publications.html -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dipak.d2004 at gmail.com Wed May 21 16:54:21 2014 From: dipak.d2004 at gmail.com (Dipak Bhattacharya) Date: Wed, 21 May 14 22:24:21 +0530 Subject: [INDOLOGY] MLBD and Hitler Message-ID: *<**indology at list.indology.info* *>* *21.5.14 * *22.22hrs* Dear Friends, I just received the following mail from MLBD ?From Rajeev Jain to Dipak Bhattacharya Mein Kampf has not been published by us. It is on our website as we also distribute books of other publishers. However, we deeply appreciate your concern. In response to your petition, we are removing it from our website and catalogue and will stop selling it with immediate effect. We have no words to express our gratitude to you for taking the trouble to write to us. Kindly circulate this mail to all those who have signed the petition and also to those who have not signed it. With regards Poonam? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dipak.d2004 at gmail.com Wed May 21 16:57:27 2014 From: dipak.d2004 at gmail.com (Dipak Bhattacharya) Date: Wed, 21 May 14 22:27:27 +0530 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Hitler and MLBD In-Reply-To: Message-ID: *<**indology at list.indology.info* *>* *21.5.14 * *22.22hrs* Dear Friends, I just received the following mail from MLBD ?From Rajeev Jain to Dipak Bhattacharya Mein Kampf has not been published by us. It is on our website as we also distribute books of other publishers. However, we deeply appreciate your concern. In response to your petition, we are removing it from our website and catalogue and will stop selling it with immediate effect. We have no words to express our gratitude to you for taking the trouble to write to us. Kindly circulate this mail to all those who have signed the petition and also to those who have not signed it. With regards Poonam? On Wed, May 21, 2014 at 9:36 PM, Bijlert, V.A. van wrote: > As a belated reaction the following remarks: > Perhaps Indians should actually read Mein Kampf very thoroughly and see > that Herr Hitler was vehemently opposed to Indian independence from > Britain. Chapter 14 entitled in German: Ostorientierung und Ostpolitik, (p > 746 ff edition 1934). Htiler was even aware of Indian revolutionaries > staying in Berlin but he thought nothing of them. India should forever > remain under British (ie white Aryan) Herrschaft. I agree that in order to > reach these passages one has had to wade through the whole book. Actually > Hitler disdained Indians and their culture, even Hindu culture. It was > Heinrich Himmler who allegedly admired Hinduism. I might add that the > indological contributions to the 'thought' of some leading national > socialist ideologues would be an important and fascinating historical topic > of research. I am not sure if I would agree with asking Motilall > Banarsidass to stop reprinting or republishing Mein Kampf. After all, the > book is available in almost every large railway station in India. I, at > least, have seen it in Howrah station and in Delhi. > Yours truly > Victor van Bijlert > > ------------------------------ > > Dr. Victor A. van Bijlert > > Associate professor Religious Studies > > Department of Philosophy of Religion and Comparative Study of Religions > > Faculty of Theology, VU University > > De Boelelaan 1105, NL-1081 HV Amsterdam, The Netherlands > > v.a.van.bijlert at vu.nl > > +31613184203 > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > http://listinfo.indology.info > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From john.darumadera at gmail.com Wed May 21 17:06:06 2014 From: john.darumadera at gmail.com (John Huntington) Date: Wed, 21 May 14 13:06:06 -0400 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Hitler and MLBD In-Reply-To: <537CBDE2.10802@unicatt.it> Message-ID: Dear all, As a life long academic (so far), I have endorse without reservation both Robert's and Paolo's thoughtful and cogent statements. Without the opposing side there is no dialogue and there is then a worse danger of monolithic views becoming dogma which we have seen all too much of is this world. John BTW: A modest Ironic note (criticizing Motilal is nothing more that a hot air in the desert) If you search the Internet Google gets 1,340.000 references: Starting with: Mein Kampf - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia en.wikipedia.org/wiki/*Mein_Kampf* - - - Wikipedia Mein Kampf is an autobiographical manifesto by Nazi leader Adolf Hitler, in which he outlines his political ideology and future plans for Germany. Volume 1 of ... ?Zweites Buch - ?Bernhard Stempfle - ?Manifesto - ?Hitler's political views Mein Kampf - Amazon.com www.amazon.com/*Mein-Kampf*-Deutsch.../1480191353 - - - Amazon.com The angry ranting of an obscure, small-party politician, the first volume of Mein Kampfwas virtually ignored when it was originally published in 1925. Likewise ... Mein Kampf by Adolf Hitler www.hitler.org/writings/*Mein_Kampf*/ - - - i. FOREWARD from Landsberg Am Lech, Fortress Prison. Volume One: A Reckoning. IN THE HOUSE OF MY PARENTS ? YEARS OF STUDY AND SUFFERING ... The History Place - Rise of Hitler: Hitler's Book "Mein Kampf" www.historyplace.com/worldwar2/riseofhitler/kampf.htm - - - Although it is thought of as having been 'written' by Hitler, Mein Kampf is not a book in the usual sense. Hitler never actually sat down and pecked at a typewriter ... Mein Kampf - Internet Archive archive.org ? eBook and Texts ? Universal Library - - - Internet Archive Internet Archive BookReader - Mein Kampf. The BookReader requires JavaScript to be enabled. Please check that your browser supports JavaScript and that it ... Full text of "Mein Kampf" - Internet Archive https://archive.org/.../*meinkampf*035176mbp/*meinkamp*... - Internet Archive ADOLF HITLER MEIN KAMPF Complete and Unabridged FULLY ANNOTATED EDITORIAL SPONSORS John Chamberlain Sidney B. Fay John Gunther Carlton ... John C. Huntington, Professor Emeritus Buddhist Art, Asian Numismatics, Field and Object Art Photography john.darumadera at gmail.com On Wed, May 21, 2014 at 10:53 AM, Paolo Magnone wrote: > Dear list, > > I resisted being dragged into this discussion, since right now I really do > not have the time to spare. Still, lest I regret my supineness later, I > feel I must take up my stand besides Robert, who > > has let a much needed dissenting voice be heard in a forum where, it > seems, too many birds of a feather flock together. I second his every word, > to which I would add a couple more of my own: > > 1. I personally do not endorse the suppression of any BOOK, whether it > be written by Hitler or by Satan in person. This is a very dangerous > attitude which has often ended up in most unwelcome consequences, from the > Qin great Burning of the Books, which we must thank for knowing virtually > nothing genuine of ancient Chinese thought, onwards. And, you know, > somebody?s ?great Satan? may easily be different from someone else?s? > 2. For that matter, I do not even endorse the suppression of any > THOUGHTS ? there, I have uttered this blasphemy! In the West, beside the > alien tradition of the ?holier than you? attitude and the attending crusade > calls amply exemplified in this thread, we have another tradition, which I > love better, of preferring critique over censorship. Unfortunately, > nowadays a new cheap dogmatism of mind-benumbing shibboleths like > democracy, freedom (whatever it may mean in the present context) with its > appendage, freemarket (which is the real aim of it all) etc. is taking over > the older church dogmatism in an appalling fashion. > 3. What MLBD chooses to publish, and their motives for publishing it, > is none of our business. Western publishers are known for promoting > whatever will bring money, irrespective of its worth. Even ?indological? > essays have been published by prestigious Western publishers whose main > thrust (as can be gathered from their titles) lies in titillating the > layman?s base instincts (I will not enter into which (essays) I regard as > such). > 4. On a lighter note, the whole affair reminds me of the petty clerk > tyrannized by his boss who takes out his frustraton on his wife and > children. Sanksrit chairs are closed down all over the place, university > courses are managed by ignorant administratives like productive units of a > company without scholars ever having a say, corporate companies are taking > upon themselves to decide what is worth studying and what is not, but what > we do to prove our weight and influence is call to account a FREE Indian > publishing house for their publishing policy! > > Sorry if anyone should feel offended by my remarks, but, as they say, > *amicus Plato, sed magis amica veritas. *With best wishes, > > Paolo Magnone > Sanskrit Language and Literature > Catholic University of the Sacred Heart - Milan > Study of Religions III (Hinduism) & IV (Buddhism) > Theological Faculty of Northern Italy - Milan > > Jambudvipa - Indology and Sanskrit Studies (www.jambudvipa.net) > On 21/05/2014 14:55, Robert Zydenbos wrote: > > Dear Dominik (whom I owe more than you probably will ever know), > > Dominik Wujastyk wrote: > > > Robert, I do not agree with most of your points. > > That is no surprise. :-) However, I would like to point out a few > relevant matters that have gone unnoticed. You may actually decide to > alter the wording of your petition, if you wish to go through with that. > > Below I will give some more thoughts about what is happening here (see > esp. ?Joachim Fest? below), based on information which anybody can read. > But first a few clarifications: > > > It has been said by me and others that the central argument here is > that MLBD as an Indological publisher owned by Jains has no good > justification for publishing /Mein Kampf/. MK is not an Indological > work (and indology is MLBD's main business identity) and it is a > work that promotes cruelty (MLBD is owned by a pious Jain family). > > Has anybody made the effort to look closely at the MLBD Website http://www.mlbd.com ? Please go there. Then look not at the right edge, > but the left edge of the screen. What I see is a list that says > ?Administration, Current Events, Fashion, Cooking, Medical,...? > Evidently, as booksellers, they already sell anything that is printed. > > I do not think it appropriate that we label an independent Indian > publishing house an ?Indological publisher? and then pretend that we > overseas Indologists can decide what they should publish (e.g., whether > they should limit themselves to Indological publications or not). Like > it or not, they have already diversified. > > Also, let us leave it to the Jainas (at times, throughout their long > history, a persecuted minority, whose traditions I have studied for 38 > years) to know how to survive in a pluralistic Indian society with their > values intact. To turn the Jainas into a caricature (through a > simplistic formula "Jainism = ahi?s?, therefore we will not allow them > to even remotely deal with anything violent in world history") is, in my > honest opinion, patronizing and not at all appropriate either. > > > The internal controversy precisely shows how uncomfortable the > Bavarian govt. is about publishing this work, even the crit. ed. > > It rather shows that the present government is dodgy and lets itself be > swayed this way and that by lobbies. I have already given links to the > relevant information, incl. the reaction of the leftist (yes! the Greens > and the SPD) opposition in parliament. > > > As we also know, other signs of Nazism are criminal offences in > Germany (SS runes, Hakenkreuz, salutes, slogans, holocaust denial > aimed at incitement, etc.; /Strafgezetzbuch/ para 86a, apparently). > > This is not relevant here. Possession of the book, also in Germany, is > not punishable. In India, with its own laws, the book can be freely sold > (like in the USA, for instance). > > > Consistency: you exactly invert the truth. If the Indian Penal Code > can be used to prevent the publication of relatively harmless > academic books, then let it also be used for its original purpose, to > prevent the publication of genuine hate literature. Let the law of > the land be used to do some good. > > To clarify: I wrote about consistency in the stance of the overseas > academic community, not about an impossible consistency spanning several > Indian publishers and diverse sections of the Indian populace. > > I am not aware that, in this case, that Indian law has been invoked in > India by any person who has felt aggrieved. The continued existence of > other editions of Mein Kampf since decades sufficiently shows that this > is so. > > > Effectiveness: "The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is > for good men to do nothing." -- Edmund Burke > > That is a nice quote, even if it is apocryphal > (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edmund_Burke#Good_men_do_nothing). > > I am concerned about the condescending, really very eurocentric > displays of emotionalism in this thread which are unlikely to generate > any real understanding in India, but resentment instead. (I remember a > soft-mannered Indian diplomat (!) here in Munich who once innocently > asked me: ?Why is everybody here so upset by the use of a good word like > ?Aryan???) > > > [...] when I have conversations with friends in India about the > European experiences during the two World Wars, they are often > horrified and had no idea beforehand about the Holocaust and other > facts. > > Superfluousness: Yes the book is not on the front page of MLBD's > website today. But they are apparently still selling Mein Kampf, > together with a DVD of a film. > > Please, Dominik... stay cool, have a good look and read the text > (http://www.mlbd.com/BookDecription.aspx?id=14737). That film is a > documentary by Joachim Fest, Germany's best-known historian for the > Nazi period (see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joachim_Fest ? I love the > last sentence in that article). > > The film: https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hitler_%E2%80%93_Eine_Karriere > > That film is just the sort of thing which we WANT to see distributed > anywhere, also in India. > > The idea of packaging the film by Fest with that book is excellent. It > is a way of saying ?here is that book that everybody is reading ? > together with a serious explanation of just what it is.? > > > It seems that they have changed the edition that they are selling, or > at least the covers illustration. I am not yet sure about the meaning > of this change. > > Offering the award-winning Fest film suggests that the meaning is to > seriously inform the public. > > My conclusion, for the time being, is that MLBD may be doing something > brilliant: jumping onto the bandwagon and at the same time diverting the > course of that bandwagon. It is constructive engagement. Why should > anyone want to stop that? > > > "Discriminatory"? How? Because we haven't written to every > publisher? > > I will tell you how. My use of the word ?discriminatory? was meant as a > short recapitulation of what I wrote earlier in that same posting of > mine: ?What effectively is being said is ?Americans and Israelis should > read the book, but it is too dangerous for you foolish Indians to have > it?.? And I believe it is VERY bad for Indologists (of all people!) to > create such an impression. > > The way things stand now, it almost seems that you are rebuking MLBD > because they want to distribute a genuinely informative film along with > the book (which booksellers and publishers like Amazon, Jaico a.o. do > not do). > > > "Not Indological?" Well, that's point, isn't it? Why should an > Indological publisher promote Mein Kampf? > > Please forget about MLBD being an ?Indological publisher? (see above). > It is not a valid argument. > > Furthermore, one can hardly call it ?promoting? when MK is bundled with > the Fest documentary. > > > Or do you mean that we shouldn't discuss this issue because it isn't > Indological? > > I am discussing it! But a serious Indologist who deals also with > contemporary India and its more recent cultural history and living > culture must also take into consideration ?the complex dynamics of > Indian democracy today?, as Ram-Prasad Chakravarthi rightly mentioned. > > > "Publicitywise counter-productive"? We don't yet know, do we? MLBD > has removed the advertisement from their website's front page > already, within 24 hours. > > (Without your petition, mind you. Think about that.) > > I am thinking of possible headlines like: ?Arrogant Western > ?Indologists? tell Indians to read Doniger's blasphemous, perverted > fantasies, want to forbid Indians to read embarrassing historical text > from the West?, or ?Forget real history, Indians! Go for Wendy's sick > dreams?. > > > You want MLBD to sell Mein Kampf? > > I would also like people to stop selling cigarettes, pornography, and a > few other things. (I believe cigarettes kill more people than Mein Kampf > does.) > > Selling MK together with the Fest film? Not a bad idea, as I have > explained above. > > And I would like to repeat my question: has anybody seen this MLBD > edition? (No, of course not.) Does it have (like the translation which I > have) an explanatory preface that says people have a right to see this > classical text about a criminal mentality, so that they can recognize it > when it crops up again? And how many of us have seen that DVD with the > Fest film? > > If any reader here wishes to join the petition, thinking that this will > give him / her a nice, warm feeling, then of course I cannot stop them. > Nor can I prevent any smug, ill-informed, knee-jerk politically correct, > patronizing, see-how-good-I-am statements from being made. But in view > of everything that I have said here and in my previous posting, let it > be understood that I cannot join. > > I also thank those list members who, unwilling to jump into the > emotionalized fray for a variety of reasons, have written words of > appreciation to me off-list. > > Sincerely, > > Robert > > P.S. Before anyone thinks up cute ideas: I am not a German (I just work > here in Munich). The study of contemporary India is part of my > professional duty. I have no Nazis among my relatives, but I do have > Jews among them, also in my ancestry. I too lost relatives in WW2 whom I > never met. And nobody is paying me to write these postings. > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > > > * Messaggio istituzionale Ricerca, Formazione, Assistenza, Cooperazione e > Sviluppo: 5 ragioni per metterci la firma. Grazie a un gesto semplice puoi > sostenere le iniziative dell?Ateneo dei cattolici italiani e del > Policlinico ?A. Gemelli?. Sottoscrivi il 5 per mille a favore > dell'Universit? Cattolica. Info: www.unicatt.it/5permille > * > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > http://listinfo.indology.info > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mkapstei at uchicago.edu Wed May 21 19:46:45 2014 From: mkapstei at uchicago.edu (Matthew Kapstein) Date: Wed, 21 May 14 19:46:45 +0000 Subject: [INDOLOGY] MLBD and Hitler In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <82C3E42590D939418C74DD76B97DDED01AF22DB9@xm-mbx-04-prod.ad.uchicago.edu> Dear all, Given MLBD's response to DB, the issue is now essentially closed. I just wish to endorse Jonathan Silk's comments: to wish not to be associated with a publisher involved in marketing Mein Kampf is tantamount neither to book-banning nor to limiting the free circulation of ideas. I reserve fully the right to let it be known to the institutions, businesses, etc., with which I am engaged, what policies, products, etc., I approve or disapprove of, and to let them know that there are circumstances under which I will part company with them. It is then up to them to decide whether they value the association with persons who share these views sufficiently to alter their policies or not. This is how free markets function. best, Matthew Matthew Kapstein Directeur d'?tudes, Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes Numata Visiting Professor of Buddhist Studies, The University of Chicago ________________________________ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From paolo.magnone at unicatt.it Thu May 22 07:03:33 2014 From: paolo.magnone at unicatt.it (Paolo Magnone) Date: Thu, 22 May 14 09:03:33 +0200 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Hitler and MLBD In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <537DA145.80401@unicatt.it> Dear Prof. Silk et al., I understand the difference. It is fine with me, even though your explanation of what democracy is all about, [?] what freedom is all about[:] I have a right to buy from whom I wish; anyone has a right to (try to) sell to whomever they wish, but I can tell them: I won't buy from you, so if it is important to you to sell to *me* [?] then you might want to rethink what you do. strikes me as some bit different from what I had figured out... but it is true that North Americans have a flair for boiling everything down to money :-) (I beg your forgiveness for my impertinence). You and others certainly may shop wherever you like. But I had something else in mind. I had in mind the oft-cited sentence wrongly attributed to Voltaire, which in spite of its apocryphal nature does indeed seem to reflect the substance of his thought: ?je ne suis pas d?accord avec ce que vous dites, mais je me battrai jusqu?? la mort pour que vous ayez le droit de le dire?. And, I may add, to me books and ideas are not the same as consumer goods or products of the entertainment industry. Ideas and books are not ? should not be ? ?on the free market?, and to me it is an ominous sign of the perversion of the age that it should occur to someone that they be. With best wishes, Paolo Magnone On 21/05/2014 18:43, Jonathan Silk wrote: Dear Colleagues, I am afraid that the comments by Prof Magnone cannot go without clarification. There is a deep and fundamental difference between suppressing books and thoughts--which requires coercive power, in principle of the state or a semi-state apparatus--and working actively to discourage distribution of ideas with which one does not agree. I would insist that this distinction is absolutely basic! (Yes, I would take this to its logical conclusion, as many would not, but I leave that for another day): I do not have to *suppress* anything to say to a movie theatre: if you show violent films, I will not patronize your establishment, I will discourage others from doing so, and I will pay for advertisements in the newspaper to discourage others. This has nothing to do with suppression, it is an exercise of freedom of choice. There is therefore absolutely nothing, logically or legally, of suppression in writing to MLBD and saying: if you sell this, I won't allow you to sell my book, I won't buy books from you, I will discourage others from buying books from you. This, Prof Magnone, is what democracy is all about, this is what freedom is all about. I have a right to buy from whom I wish; anyone has a right to (try to) sell to whomever they wish, but I can tell them: I won't buy from you, so if it is important to you to sell to *me* (in case, me = we Indologists, or as it seems at least some of us), then you might want to rethink what you do. Aside from one or two perhaps not entirely serious remarks earlier in the discussion of using the Doniger law to attack MLBD, I don't think anyone--and certainly not I--want to use anything remotely approaching recourse to the courts to stop the distribution of this book. It is rather akin to saying: you can invite whomever you like to your party, but if you want to see me there, then make sure that you dont invite Mr X. I won't be in the same room with him; you choose whom you would like to see present. Cordially, Jonathan Silk On Wed, May 21, 2014 at 7:53 AM, Paolo Magnone > wrote: Dear list, I resisted being dragged into this discussion, since right now I really do not have the time to spare. Still, lest I regret my supineness later, I feel I must take up my stand besides Robert, who has let a much needed dissenting voice be heard in a forum where, it seems, too many birds of a feather flock together. I second his every word, to which I would add a couple more of my own: 1. I personally do not endorse the suppression of any BOOK, whether it be written by Hitler or by Satan in person. This is a very dangerous attitude which has often ended up in most unwelcome consequences, from the Qin great Burning of the Books, which we must thank for knowing virtually nothing genuine of ancient Chinese thought, onwards. And, you know, somebody?s ?great Satan? may easily be different from someone else?s? 2. For that matter, I do not even endorse the suppression of any THOUGHTS ? there, I have uttered this blasphemy! In the West, beside the alien tradition of the ?holier than you? attitude and the attending crusade calls amply exemplified in this thread, we have another tradition, which I love better, of preferring critique over censorship. Unfortunately, nowadays a new cheap dogmatism of mind-benumbing shibboleths like democracy, freedom (whatever it may mean in the present context) with its appendage, freemarket (which is the real aim of it all) etc. is taking over the older church dogmatism in an appalling fashion. 3. What MLBD chooses to publish, and their motives for publishing it, is none of our business. Western publishers are known for promoting whatever will bring money, irrespective of its worth. Even ?indological? essays have been published by prestigious Western publishers whose main thrust (as can be gathered from their titles) lies in titillating the layman?s base instincts (I will not enter into which (essays) I regard as such). 4. On a lighter note, the whole affair reminds me of the petty clerk tyrannized by his boss who takes out his frustraton on his wife and children. Sanksrit chairs are closed down all over the place, university courses are managed by ignorant administratives like productive units of a company without scholars ever having a say, corporate companies are taking upon themselves to decide what is worth studying and what is not, but what we do to prove our weight and influence is call to account a FREE Indian publishing house for their publishing policy! Sorry if anyone should feel offended by my remarks, but, as they say, amicus Plato, sed magis amica veritas. With best wishes, Paolo Magnone Sanskrit Language and Literature Catholic University of the Sacred Heart - Milan Study of Religions III (Hinduism) & IV (Buddhism) Theological Faculty of Northern Italy - Milan Jambudvipa - Indology and Sanskrit Studies (www.jambudvipa.net) On 21/05/2014 14:55, Robert Zydenbos wrote: Dear Dominik (whom I owe more than you probably will ever know), Dominik Wujastyk wrote: Robert, I do not agree with most of your points. That is no surprise. :-) However, I would like to point out a few relevant matters that have gone unnoticed. You may actually decide to alter the wording of your petition, if you wish to go through with that. Below I will give some more thoughts about what is happening here (see esp. ?Joachim Fest? below), based on information which anybody can read. But first a few clarifications: It has been said by me and others that the central argument here is that MLBD as an Indological publisher owned by Jains has no good justification for publishing /Mein Kampf/. MK is not an Indological work (and indology is MLBD's main business identity) and it is a work that promotes cruelty (MLBD is owned by a pious Jain family). Has anybody made the effort to look closely at the MLBD Website http://www.mlbd.com ? Please go there. Then look not at the right edge, but the left edge of the screen. What I see is a list that says ?Administration, Current Events, Fashion, Cooking, Medical,...? Evidently, as booksellers, they already sell anything that is printed. I do not think it appropriate that we label an independent Indian publishing house an ?Indological publisher? and then pretend that we overseas Indologists can decide what they should publish (e.g., whether they should limit themselves to Indological publications or not). Like it or not, they have already diversified. Also, let us leave it to the Jainas (at times, throughout their long history, a persecuted minority, whose traditions I have studied for 38 years) to know how to survive in a pluralistic Indian society with their values intact. To turn the Jainas into a caricature (through a simplistic formula "Jainism = ahi?s?, therefore we will not allow them to even remotely deal with anything violent in world history") is, in my honest opinion, patronizing and not at all appropriate either. The internal controversy precisely shows how uncomfortable the Bavarian govt. is about publishing this work, even the crit. ed. It rather shows that the present government is dodgy and lets itself be swayed this way and that by lobbies. I have already given links to the relevant information, incl. the reaction of the leftist (yes! the Greens and the SPD) opposition in parliament. As we also know, other signs of Nazism are criminal offences in Germany (SS runes, Hakenkreuz, salutes, slogans, holocaust denial aimed at incitement, etc.; /Strafgezetzbuch/ para 86a, apparently). This is not relevant here. Possession of the book, also in Germany, is not punishable. In India, with its own laws, the book can be freely sold (like in the USA, for instance). Consistency: you exactly invert the truth. If the Indian Penal Code can be used to prevent the publication of relatively harmless academic books, then let it also be used for its original purpose, to prevent the publication of genuine hate literature. Let the law of the land be used to do some good. To clarify: I wrote about consistency in the stance of the overseas academic community, not about an impossible consistency spanning several Indian publishers and diverse sections of the Indian populace. I am not aware that, in this case, that Indian law has been invoked in India by any person who has felt aggrieved. The continued existence of other editions of Mein Kampf since decades sufficiently shows that this is so. Effectiveness: "The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." -- Edmund Burke That is a nice quote, even if it is apocryphal (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edmund_Burke#Good_men_do_nothing). I am concerned about the condescending, really very eurocentric displays of emotionalism in this thread which are unlikely to generate any real understanding in India, but resentment instead. (I remember a soft-mannered Indian diplomat (!) here in Munich who once innocently asked me: ?Why is everybody here so upset by the use of a good word like ?Aryan???) [...] when I have conversations with friends in India about the European experiences during the two World Wars, they are often horrified and had no idea beforehand about the Holocaust and other facts. Superfluousness: Yes the book is not on the front page of MLBD's website today. But they are apparently still selling Mein Kampf, together with a DVD of a film. Please, Dominik... stay cool, have a good look and read the text (http://www.mlbd.com/BookDecription.aspx?id=14737). That film is a documentary by Joachim Fest, Germany's best-known historian for the Nazi period (see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joachim_Fest ? I love the last sentence in that article). The film: https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hitler_%E2%80%93_Eine_Karriere That film is just the sort of thing which we WANT to see distributed anywhere, also in India. The idea of packaging the film by Fest with that book is excellent. It is a way of saying ?here is that book that everybody is reading ? together with a serious explanation of just what it is.? It seems that they have changed the edition that they are selling, or at least the covers illustration. I am not yet sure about the meaning of this change. Offering the award-winning Fest film suggests that the meaning is to seriously inform the public. My conclusion, for the time being, is that MLBD may be doing something brilliant: jumping onto the bandwagon and at the same time diverting the course of that bandwagon. It is constructive engagement. Why should anyone want to stop that? "Discriminatory"? How? Because we haven't written to every publisher? I will tell you how. My use of the word ?discriminatory? was meant as a short recapitulation of what I wrote earlier in that same posting of mine: ?What effectively is being said is ?Americans and Israelis should read the book, but it is too dangerous for you foolish Indians to have it?.? And I believe it is VERY bad for Indologists (of all people!) to create such an impression. The way things stand now, it almost seems that you are rebuking MLBD because they want to distribute a genuinely informative film along with the book (which booksellers and publishers like Amazon, Jaico a.o. do not do). "Not Indological?" Well, that's point, isn't it? Why should an Indological publisher promote Mein Kampf? Please forget about MLBD being an ?Indological publisher? (see above). It is not a valid argument. Furthermore, one can hardly call it ?promoting? when MK is bundled with the Fest documentary. Or do you mean that we shouldn't discuss this issue because it isn't Indological? I am discussing it! But a serious Indologist who deals also with contemporary India and its more recent cultural history and living culture must also take into consideration ?the complex dynamics of Indian democracy today?, as Ram-Prasad Chakravarthi rightly mentioned. "Publicitywise counter-productive"? We don't yet know, do we? MLBD has removed the advertisement from their website's front page already, within 24 hours. (Without your petition, mind you. Think about that.) I am thinking of possible headlines like: ?Arrogant Western ?Indologists? tell Indians to read Doniger's blasphemous, perverted fantasies, want to forbid Indians to read embarrassing historical text from the West?, or ?Forget real history, Indians! Go for Wendy's sick dreams?. You want MLBD to sell Mein Kampf? I would also like people to stop selling cigarettes, pornography, and a few other things. (I believe cigarettes kill more people than Mein Kampf does.) Selling MK together with the Fest film? Not a bad idea, as I have explained above. And I would like to repeat my question: has anybody seen this MLBD edition? (No, of course not.) Does it have (like the translation which I have) an explanatory preface that says people have a right to see this classical text about a criminal mentality, so that they can recognize it when it crops up again? And how many of us have seen that DVD with the Fest film? If any reader here wishes to join the petition, thinking that this will give him / her a nice, warm feeling, then of course I cannot stop them. Nor can I prevent any smug, ill-informed, knee-jerk politically correct, patronizing, see-how-good-I-am statements from being made. But in view of everything that I have said here and in my previous posting, let it be understood that I cannot join. I also thank those list members who, unwilling to jump into the emotionalized fray for a variety of reasons, have written words of appreciation to me off-list. Sincerely, Robert P.S. Before anyone thinks up cute ideas: I am not a German (I just work here in Munich). The study of contemporary India is part of my professional duty. I have no Nazis among my relatives, but I do have Jews among them, also in my ancestry. I too lost relatives in WW2 whom I never met. And nobody is paying me to write these postings. ________________________________ Messaggio istituzionale Ricerca, Formazione, Assistenza, Cooperazione e Sviluppo: 5 ragioni per metterci la firma. Grazie a un gesto semplice puoi sostenere le iniziative dell?Ateneo dei cattolici italiani e del Policlinico ?A. Gemelli?. Sottoscrivi il 5 per mille a favore dell'Universit? Cattolica. Info: www.unicatt.it/5permille ________________________________ _______________________________________________ INDOLOGY mailing list INDOLOGY at list.indology.info http://listinfo.indology.info -- J. Silk Instituut Kern / Universiteit Leiden Leiden University Institute for Area Studies, LIAS Johan Huizinga Building, Room 1.37 Doelensteeg 16 2311 VL Leiden The Netherlands copies of my publications may be found at http://www.buddhismandsocialjustice.com/silk_publications.html ________________________________ Messaggio istituzionale Ricerca, Formazione, Assistenza, Cooperazione e Sviluppo: 5 ragioni per metterci la firma. Grazie a un gesto semplice puoi sostenere le iniziative dell?Ateneo dei cattolici italiani e del Policlinico ?A. Gemelli?. Sottoscrivi il 5 per mille a favore dell'Universit? Cattolica. Info: www.unicatt.it/5permille ________________________________ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From gruenen at sub.uni-goettingen.de Thu May 22 08:10:16 2014 From: gruenen at sub.uni-goettingen.de (Gruenendahl, Reinhold) Date: Thu, 22 May 14 08:10:16 +0000 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Hitler and MLBD In-Reply-To: <537DA145.80401@unicatt.it> Message-ID: <044C4CE033BD474EBE2ACACE8E4B1D949C2EAC50@UM-EXCDAG-A01.um.gwdg.de> I would be much obliged if a member of the INDOLOGY committee or any other person in the know would be so kind as to tell me how many members the list currently counts, and how many of them have signed Dominik Wujastyk's open letter to "MLBD". Thanks in advance Reinhold Gr?nendahl -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mbroo at abo.fi Thu May 22 08:32:15 2014 From: mbroo at abo.fi (mbroo at abo.fi) Date: Thu, 22 May 14 11:32:15 +0300 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Hitler and MLBD In-Reply-To: <044C4CE033BD474EBE2ACACE8E4B1D949C2EAC50@UM-EXCDAG-A01.um.gwdg.de> Message-ID: <20140522113215.h7tvp2m6wo0k0kks@webmail2.abo.fi> Dear all, I for one signed the petition, with some doubt, but I cannot see why it would be in the interest of the list to publish details of who signed or not. MLBD has apologized and withdrawn the book. Can't we now let the matter rest? Sincerely M?ns Broo > I would be much obliged if a member of the INDOLOGY committee or any > other person in the know would be so kind as to tell me how many > members the list currently counts, and how many of them have signed > Dominik Wujastyk's open letter to "MLBD". > > Thanks in advance > Reinhold Gr?nendahl > > > -- FD M?ns Broo Lektor i religionsvetenskap ?bo Akademi Fabriksgatan 2 20500 ?bo, Finland tfn: +358-2-2154398 fax: +358-2-2154902 mobil: +358-50-5695754 Dr. M?ns Broo Senior Lecturer of Comparative Religion ?bo Akademi University Fabriksgatan 2 FI-20500 ?bo, Finland phone: +358-2-2154398 fax: +358-2-2154902 mobile: +358-50-5695754 From gruenen at sub.uni-goettingen.de Thu May 22 08:35:00 2014 From: gruenen at sub.uni-goettingen.de (Gruenendahl, Reinhold) Date: Thu, 22 May 14 08:35:00 +0000 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Hitler and MLBD In-Reply-To: <20140522113215.h7tvp2m6wo0k0kks@webmail2.abo.fi> Message-ID: <044C4CE033BD474EBE2ACACE8E4B1D949C2EBC69@UM-EXCDAG-A01.um.gwdg.de> I did not ask WHO signed but HOW MANY signed. R.G. ________________________________________ Von: INDOLOGY [indology-bounces at list.indology.info]" im Auftrag von "mbroo at abo.fi [mbroo at abo.fi] Gesendet: Donnerstag, 22. Mai 2014 10:32 An: indology at list.indology.info Betreff: Re: [INDOLOGY] Hitler and MLBD Dear all, I for one signed the petition, with some doubt, but I cannot see why it would be in the interest of the list to publish details of who signed or not. MLBD has apologized and withdrawn the book. Can't we now let the matter rest? Sincerely M?ns Broo > I would be much obliged if a member of the INDOLOGY committee or any > other person in the know would be so kind as to tell me how many > members the list currently counts, and how many of them have signed > Dominik Wujastyk's open letter to "MLBD". > > Thanks in advance > Reinhold Gr?nendahl > > > -- FD M?ns Broo Lektor i religionsvetenskap ?bo Akademi Fabriksgatan 2 20500 ?bo, Finland tfn: +358-2-2154398 fax: +358-2-2154902 mobil: +358-50-5695754 Dr. M?ns Broo Senior Lecturer of Comparative Religion ?bo Akademi University Fabriksgatan 2 FI-20500 ?bo, Finland phone: +358-2-2154398 fax: +358-2-2154902 mobile: +358-50-5695754 _______________________________________________ INDOLOGY mailing list INDOLOGY at list.indology.info http://listinfo.indology.info From rrocher at sas.upenn.edu Thu May 22 12:29:47 2014 From: rrocher at sas.upenn.edu (Rosane Rocher) Date: Thu, 22 May 14 08:29:47 -0400 Subject: [INDOLOGY] sad day Message-ID: <537DEDBB.5080801@sas.upenn.edu> It is a sad day when a member of this list chooses to insult the totality of his Canadian and US colleagues with an ethnic/national stereotype and claim such a slur as "truth." It is the kind of day when one has to remind oneself of the many acts of kindness, generosity, and collegial sharing of information and resources across cyberspace to refrain from hitting the "unsubscribe" option. May the best in us continue to prevail! Rosane From jpo at uts.cc.utexas.edu Thu May 22 13:13:33 2014 From: jpo at uts.cc.utexas.edu (Patrick Olivelle) Date: Thu, 22 May 14 08:13:33 -0500 Subject: [INDOLOGY] sad day In-Reply-To: <537DEDBB.5080801@sas.upenn.edu> Message-ID: <0815BDEA-59E4-4D91-AEBD-161C3F4C69AF@uts.cc.utexas.edu> >From another immigrant to these shores, I can only say Amen. Patrick On May 22, 2014, at 7:29 AM, Rosane Rocher wrote: > It is a sad day when a member of this list chooses to insult the totality of his Canadian and US colleagues with an ethnic/national stereotype and claim such a slur as "truth." It is the kind of day when one has to remind oneself of the many acts of kindness, generosity, and collegial sharing of information and resources across cyberspace to refrain from hitting the "unsubscribe" option. May the best in us continue to prevail! > > Rosane > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > http://listinfo.indology.info From paolo.magnone at unicatt.it Thu May 22 13:37:11 2014 From: paolo.magnone at unicatt.it (Paolo Magnone) Date: Thu, 22 May 14 15:37:11 +0200 Subject: [INDOLOGY] sad day In-Reply-To: <537DEDBB.5080801@sas.upenn.edu> Message-ID: <537DFD87.7090100@unicatt.it> Dear colleagues, The appropriateness or otherwise of my rethorical devices is entirely beyond the original point, and hardly a subject of indological interest. Nitpicking over details is also in itself a well-known rhetorical device to deflect attention from the main argument. For these reasons, I will respond off-list to this and other similar comments. Paolo Magnone On 22/05/2014 14:29, Rosane Rocher wrote: It is a sad day when a member of this list chooses to insult the totality of his Canadian and US colleagues with an ethnic/national stereotype and claim such a slur as "truth." It is the kind of day when one has to remind oneself of the many acts of kindness, generosity, and collegial sharing of information and resources across cyberspace to refrain from hitting the "unsubscribe" option. May the best in us continue to prevail! Rosane _______________________________________________ INDOLOGY mailing list INDOLOGY at list.indology.info http://listinfo.indology.info ________________________________ Messaggio istituzionale Ricerca, Formazione, Assistenza, Cooperazione e Sviluppo: 5 ragioni per metterci la firma. Grazie a un gesto semplice puoi sostenere le iniziative dell?Ateneo dei cattolici italiani e del Policlinico ?A. Gemelli?. Sottoscrivi il 5 per mille a favore dell'Universit? Cattolica. Info: www.unicatt.it/5permille ________________________________ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From drdj at austin.utexas.edu Thu May 22 14:08:52 2014 From: drdj at austin.utexas.edu (Donald R Davis) Date: Thu, 22 May 14 14:08:52 +0000 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Studies of Signatures in Indian Epigraphy Message-ID: Dear Colleagues, Are there any special studies devoted to the use of signatures or attestations in Indian epigraphical sources? I am particularly interested in medieval South India, but would appreciate any general leads as well. Burnell has some remarks in his Indian Palaeography and the use of signatures is mentioned in most epigraphical studies of inscriptions that have them, of course. The formula "svahasto mama" ('matam mama", etc) is ubiquitously mentioned in connection with Harsha and other kings. But, I can't yet find a longer discussion of signatures or attestations. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Best regards, Don Davis Dept of Asian Studies University of Texas at Austin -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From selwyn at ntlworld.com Thu May 22 14:23:02 2014 From: selwyn at ntlworld.com (L.S. Cousins) Date: Thu, 22 May 14 15:23:02 +0100 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Devanagala inscription In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <537E0846.8060308@ntlworld.com> I wonder if anyone has a pdf of the Devanagala inscription and Senarat Paranavitana's treatment of it that they could send me ?. It should be in: Epigraphia Zeylanica Vol. III n.34 pp.312?325. Unfortunately Oxford's copy of this is either missing or mythical. Lance Cousins From slaje at kabelmail.de Thu May 22 14:41:05 2014 From: slaje at kabelmail.de (Walter Slaje) Date: Thu, 22 May 14 16:41:05 +0200 Subject: [INDOLOGY] sad day In-Reply-To: <537DEDBB.5080801@sas.upenn.edu> Message-ID: Speaking of ?the best? ? any democratic forum of scholars would certainly welcome the request made earlier for more transparency, particularly in terms of the precise number of members they (unknowingly) communicate with. As to the petition as such, which was launched by a member of the committee of our list, a brief check just made reveals a number of 62 signatories put under the general label of ?success? ("Erfolg" on the German site): http://www.change.org/de/Petitionen/motilal-banarsidass-stop-publishing-and-selling-hitler-s-mein-kampf?utm_campaign=petition_created&utm_medium=email&utm_source=guides We need of course to know how many of us actually are on this list, as it is always only the total of a certain fraction that can be used as a criterion for assessing something as ?success? (or not). Since the petition was made an agenda of this, and only this, list, members may justifiably expect unrestricted statistical information to gauge its results. It was sad to witness how the juste milieu privilege themselves by claiming sovereignty over the accessibility, distribution and interpretation of a book in an independent state where they cannot claim citizenship, and arrogantly try to lecture their colleagues together with a publishing house from India very much after the colonial manner of educating their (former) subjects. Those schoolmarmishly disciplined could now with the same right demand a demonstration of the higher morale preached in this list by addressing the committee with the request for something rather simple, though essential in the given context, to wit, democratic transparency. WS ----------------------------- Prof. Dr. Walter Slaje Hermann-L?ns-Str. 1 D-99425 Weimar Deutschland Ego ex animi mei sententia spondeo ac polliceor studia humanitatis impigro labore culturum et provecturum non sordidi lucri causa nec ad vanam captandam gloriam, sed quo magis veritas propagetur et lux eius, qua salus humani generis continetur, clarius effulgeat. Vindobonae, die XXI. mensis Novembris MCMLXXXIII. 2014-05-22 14:29 GMT+02:00 Rosane Rocher : > It is a sad day when a member of this list chooses to insult the totality > of his Canadian and US colleagues with an ethnic/national stereotype and > claim such a slur as "truth." It is the kind of day when one has to remind > oneself of the many acts of kindness, generosity, and collegial sharing of > information and resources across cyberspace to refrain from hitting the > "unsubscribe" option. May the best in us continue to prevail! > > Rosane > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > http://listinfo.indology.info > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From gruenen at sub.uni-goettingen.de Thu May 22 15:34:30 2014 From: gruenen at sub.uni-goettingen.de (Gruenendahl, Reinhold) Date: Thu, 22 May 14 15:34:30 +0000 Subject: [INDOLOGY] GRETIL update #431 Message-ID: <044C4CE033BD474EBE2ACACE8E4B1D949C2F1F87@UM-excdag-a02.um.gwdg.de> GRETIL is pleased to be able to report the following addition(s) to its collection: Chapata Saddhammajotipala: Kaccayanasuttaniddesa: http://gretil.sub.uni-goettingen.de/gretil.htm#ChapKaccsn Kulasekhara: Mukundmala: http://gretil.sub.uni-goettingen.de/gretil.htm#KulMukm __________________________________________________________________________ "GRETIL is intended as a cumulative register of the numerous download sites for electronic texts in Indian languages." (from the 2001 "mission statement") GRETIL - Goettingen Register of Electronic Texts in Indian Languages: http://gretil.sub.uni-goettingen.de/gretil.htm From dmellins at gmail.com Thu May 22 16:21:55 2014 From: dmellins at gmail.com (David Mellins) Date: Thu, 22 May 14 12:21:55 -0400 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Country of publishing house is inconsequential Message-ID: I suspect ? though I have not done a survey ? that many scholars on this list might also refrain publishing their books through SUNY or Oxford and similarly sign a petitions should that publishing house begin printing or distributing *Mein Kampf. *So I think the discussions about Ethnocentrism and Condescension are inconsequential and misplaced here. Since many scholars, including myself, are personally acquainted with Jain family, it's reasonable to express feel and express concern. Sincerely, David Mellins -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dmellins at gmail.com Thu May 22 16:23:43 2014 From: dmellins at gmail.com (David Mellins) Date: Thu, 22 May 14 12:23:43 -0400 Subject: [INDOLOGY] sad day In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I suspect ? though I have not done a survey ? that many scholars on this list might also refrain publishing their books at SUNY or Oxford and similarly sign a petitions should that publishing house begin printing or distributing *Mein Kampf. *So I think discussions about ethnocentrism and condescension are inconsequential and misplaced here. Since many scholars, including myself, are personally acquainted with Jain family, it's reasonable to express feel and express concern about such a choice in inventory. Sincerely, David Mellins On Thu, May 22, 2014 at 10:41 AM, Walter Slaje wrote: > Speaking of ?the best? ? any democratic forum of scholars would certainly > welcome the request made earlier for more transparency, particularly in > terms of the precise number of members they (unknowingly) communicate with. > > > As to the petition as such, which was launched by a member of the > committee of our list, a brief check just made reveals a number of 62 > signatories put under the general label of ?success? ("Erfolg" on the > German site): > > > > http://www.change.org/de/Petitionen/motilal-banarsidass-stop-publishing-and-selling-hitler-s-mein-kampf?utm_campaign=petition_created&utm_medium=email&utm_source=guides > > > We need of course to know how many of us actually are on this list, as it > is always only the total of a certain fraction that can be used as a > criterion for assessing something as ?success? (or not). Since the petition > was made an agenda of this, and only this, list, members may justifiably > expect unrestricted statistical information to gauge its results. > > It was sad to witness how the juste milieu privilege themselves by > claiming sovereignty over the accessibility, distribution and > interpretation of a book in an independent state where they cannot claim > citizenship, and arrogantly try to lecture their colleagues together with a > publishing house from India very much after the colonial manner of > educating their (former) subjects. Those schoolmarmishly disciplined could > now with the same right demand a demonstration of the higher morale > preached in this list by addressing the committee with the request for > something rather simple, though essential in the given context, to wit, > democratic transparency. > > WS > > ----------------------------- > Prof. Dr. Walter Slaje > Hermann-L?ns-Str. 1 > D-99425 Weimar > Deutschland > > Ego ex animi mei sententia spondeo ac polliceor > studia humanitatis impigro labore culturum et provecturum > non sordidi lucri causa nec ad vanam captandam gloriam, > sed quo magis veritas propagetur et lux eius, qua salus > humani generis continetur, clarius effulgeat. > Vindobonae, die XXI. mensis Novembris MCMLXXXIII. > > > 2014-05-22 14:29 GMT+02:00 Rosane Rocher : > >> It is a sad day when a member of this list chooses to insult the totality >> of his Canadian and US colleagues with an ethnic/national stereotype and >> claim such a slur as "truth." It is the kind of day when one has to remind >> oneself of the many acts of kindness, generosity, and collegial sharing of >> information and resources across cyberspace to refrain from hitting the >> "unsubscribe" option. May the best in us continue to prevail! >> >> Rosane >> >> _______________________________________________ >> INDOLOGY mailing list >> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info >> http://listinfo.indology.info >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > http://listinfo.indology.info > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From selwyn at ntlworld.com Thu May 22 16:44:30 2014 From: selwyn at ntlworld.com (L.S. Cousins) Date: Thu, 22 May 14 17:44:30 +0100 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Devanagala inscription In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <537E296E.3010608@ntlworld.com> Happily Pera Kieffer-P?lz has kindly sent me a copy of this. Very helpful. Lance Cousins > I wonder if anyone has a pdf of the Devanagala inscription and Senarat Paranavitana's treatment of it that they could send me ?. It should be in: > > Epigraphia Zeylanica Vol. III n.34 pp.312?325. > > Unfortunately Oxford's copy of this is either missing or mythical. > > Lance Cousins From christophe.vielle at uclouvain.be Thu May 22 17:03:49 2014 From: christophe.vielle at uclouvain.be (Christophe Vielle) Date: Thu, 22 May 14 19:03:49 +0200 Subject: =?utf-8?Q?[INDOLOGY]_Hitler's_a=CC=84tmakatha?= Message-ID: <3C9A0DF6-462F-4732-8F16-932680510AB8@uclouvain.be> It remains to be studied why this book, so sulfurously dealt with in Western countries, has been made so easily available in various Indian languages (as far as I can check) - even if it is certainly not a best-seller on each of these different regional book-markets. Usually, it is rather the Western "classics" or modern popular novels or essays which are translated (see a few samples below). Apparently it is less for its historical (exemplary negative) value (as a political pamphlet) than because it is has been considered as a "super world famous autobiography" that it has been published and is sold as such. Strange. The Malayalam version (which keeps the German title, differently from the Tamil one which translates it) is furnished with an historical introduction and contrastive supplements. The same Publisher, a "normal" generalist one I would say, has also published books on Mother Theresa, on Ambedkar, Gandhi's Diary, Kerala communism, Malayalam translation of King Salomon Mines "classic", translation of the screenplay of the Godfather "legendary movie", a history of football, etc. etc. (interesting in fact to look at the huge number and the variety of its publications). http://www.indulekha.com/mein-kamph-hitlerude-aathmakatha-adolf%20hitler-autobiography-malayalam?author_id=29 By: Adolf Hitler Publisher: Olive / Papiyon / Harmony Shipping: World wide Category: Malayalam Memoirs Reward Points: 0 Availability: In Stock Free Shipping in India for orders above Rs. 501/- Price: Rs240.00 DescriptionReviews (2) One of the most popular autobiographies in the world; one of the most notorius authors in history: Mein Kamph and Adolf Hitler. This malayalam edition of Mein Kamph comes with a lot of rare photos. Two notes appended; first by Charlie Chaplin who mocked Hitler in his movie The Great Dictator and the second by Elie Wiesel. V P Subair did the translation, in a very readable language. There's an introduction by Prof. M N Vijayan. Malayalam Title: ???????? ?????- ???????????? ?????? Pages: 338 Size: Demy 1/8 Binding: Paperback Edition: 2008 September Geetha Venugopal | 28/02/2014 valare prathikshayodeyanu ithu vayikanirunnathu. pakhse nirasa ayirunnu . Ithu mein kamphinte paribhashayo atho hiduismthinu ethirayulla pracharanamo? Njan oru rashtriyathilum viswasikkunna alalla. Mein kampf inte honest ayulla oru translation anu njagale poleyullavarku vendathu. Ithu poleyulla oru book vivarthanam cheyyumbol athil mattu rashtriyam cherkathirikkuka. krishna | 04/02/2014 oru rastriyathilum viswasikkatha oru kootam vayankarund ennu manasilakkuka.hitlerude athmakadyilude vimarshangal alla vendath. vimarshikkan rastriya bookukal ezhuthunnathanu nallath.evide vendath mein kamph inte malayalam paribasha matramanu. allathe India ude rastrya bhavi alla. http://www.tamilbooksonline.in/searchbooks1.php?code=TA007670 ???? ?????????? ENATHU PORATTAM (MEIN KAMPF) AUTHOR:ADOLF HITLER Price:Rs.200 6. Buffett, Mary. [New Buffettology. Malayalam] Da nyu? baphat?t?o?l?aji : ma?r?ikkon?t?irikkunna vipan?ikal?il vijayakarama?yi niks?e?pam? nat?atti lo?katte e?t?t?avum? pras?astana?ya niks?e?pakana?yi ma?r?iya Va?r?an Baphat?t?int?e payat?t?ittel?in?n?a niks?e?patantran?n?al? / Me?ri Baphat?t?, D?e?vid? Kl?a?rkk ; vivarttanam?, Dili?p Philipp. -- Kottayam : DC Life : Distributors, Current Books, 2013. 294 p. ; 21 cm. In Malayalam. Translated from English. Added title on cover: New Buffettology. "Va?r?an Baphat?t?ine lo?katte e?t?t?avum? valiya dhanikanum? niks?e?pakanuma?kkiya tantran?n?al?"--Cover. Includes index. ISBN 9788126448753 (pbk.) 1. Buffett, Warren. 2. Investments. USD 12.70 (pbk.) 7. Jobs, Steve, 1955-2011. [I, Steve : SteveJobs, in his own words. Malayalam] N?a?n St?t?i?v : [St?t?i?v Jo?bsint?e ji?vitam? svantam? va?kkukal?il] / ed?it?t?ar, Jo?rj Bi?m? ; paribha?s?a, Jo?saph La?ye?l. -- Kottayam : D C Books : Distributors, Current Books, 2012. 167 p. ; 21 cm. In Malayalam. Translated from English. Added titlte on cover: I, Steve : Steve Jobs in his own words; Title on t.p. verso in roman: Nja?n Steve. Collection of direct quotes from Steve Jobs on topics related to business, technology, Apple, and life. "Asa?dha?ran?ama?ya a?s?ayamikavina?l a?dhunikalo?katte munno?t?t?u nayicca St?t?i?v Jo?bsint?e praco?dana?tmakama?ya ji?vita?dhya?yan?n?al?"--Cover. ISBN 9788126434886 (pbk.) 1. Jobs, Steve, 1955-2011.--Quotations. 2. Apple Computer, Inc. 3. Businesspeople--United States--Quotations. 4. Success in business- Quotations. USD 9.00 (pbk.) 4. Camus, Albert, 1913-1960. [E?tranger. Malayalam] Anyan / Albe?r Kamyu ; paribha?s?a, A?lakka?t?t? Salila. -- Kottayam : DC Books : Distributors, Current Books, 2013. 110 p. ; 21 cm. Novel. In Malayalam. Translated from French. Title on t.p. verso in roman: Annyan; Added title on cover: L'etranger. Novel based on an ordinary man who gets drawn into a senseless murder in a beach outside Algeria. ISBN 9788126441433 (pbk.) 1. Murder--Fiction. 2. Algeria.--Fiction. 3. Adventure stories. 4. French fiction.--Translations into Malayalam. USD 5.80 (pbk.) 24. Roth, Philip. [Plot against America. Malayalam] Ame?rikkaykketire upaja?pam? / Philipp R?o?tt ; vivarttanam?, Es. S?ri?niva?san. -- Kottayam : D C Books : Distributors, Current Books, 2011. 439 p. ; 21 cm. Novel. In Malayalam. Translated from English. Title on t.p. verso in roman: Americkakkethire upaja?pam; Added title on cover: Plot against America. Novel on Lindbergh Charles Augustus, 1902-1974, Aviator, author, social activist. ISBN 9788126429240 (pbk.) 1. Lindbergh, Charles A. (Charles Augustus), 1902-1974.--Fiction. 2. Presidents--United States--Fiction. 3. Presidents--Election--Fiction. 4. Jews--United States--Fiction. 5. Antisemitism--Fiction. 6. Jewish fiction. 7. Political fiction, American.--Translations into Malayalam. 20. Le Cle?zio, J.-M. G. (Jean-Marie Gustave), 1940- [E?toile errante. Malayalam] Alayunna naks?atram? / Je. Em?. Ji. Le Kl?esiyo? ; paribha?s?a, De?s?aman?galam? Ra?makr?s?n?an. -- Kottayam : D C Books : Distributors, Current Books, 2011. 256 p. ; 21 cm. Novel. In Malayalam. Original in French; translated from English. Title on t.p. verso in roman: Alayunna nakshathram; Title on t.p. verso in French: Etoile errante; Added title on cover: Wandering star. Novel on the life of Palestinian refugees. "Sa?hityattinul?l?a Nobe?l Samma?nam? ne?t?iya Je. Em?. Ji. Le Kl?esiyo? "- Cover. ISBN 9788126434275 (pbk.) 1. Refugees--Palestine--Social life and customs--Fiction. 2. French fiction.--Translations into Malayalam. USD 13.50 (pbk.) 25. Shelly, Mary, 1797-1851. [Frankenstein. Malayalam] Phra?n?kanst?t?ain athava? mo?d?e?n? promi?tyas / Me?ri S?elli ; paribha?s?a, Em?. Pi. Sada?s?ivan. -- 1st ed. -- Kozhikode : Olive Publications, 2009. 202 p. ; 22 cm. -- (Olive classic library) Novel. In Malayalam. Translated from English. Title on t.p. verso in roman: Frankenstein adhava modern promithias; Added title on cover: Frankenstein. ISBN 8188779237 (pbk.) 1. English fiction.--Translations into Malayalam. USD 9.90 (pbk.) 8. Goethe, Johann Wolfgang von, 1749-1832. Vertar?ut?e dukhan?n?al? : no?val / Yoha?n Vol?phga?n? Phon? Gethe ; paribha?s?a, Sul?phi. -- 1st. ed. -- Kozhikode : Pappiyon, 2010. 153 p. ; 22 cm. -- (Pappiyon classic library) Novel. In Malayalam. Translated from German. Title on t.p. verso in roman: Vertherude dhukhangal. ISBN 9788187474470 (pbk.) 1. German fiction.--Translations into Malayalam. USD 9.00 (pbk.) 5. Burroughs, Edgar Rice, 1875-1950. [Jungle tales of Tarzan. Malayalam] T?a?rsan ka?t?t?ile kathakal? / Ed?ga?r R?ais Bar?o?s ; [translation, Suresh Kumar]. -- Ko?t?t?ayam? : R?i?gal Pabl?is?e?l?s, [2011?] 263 p. ; 19 cm. -- (Ri?gal no?val ; 6) Novel. In Malayalam. Translated from English. Title on t.p. verso: Jungle tales of Tarzan. Reprint. Originally published: 1984. Novel on Tarzan, a fictitious character. 1. Tarzan (Fictitious character)--Fiction. 2. Jungles--Fiction. 3. American fiction.--Translations into Malayalam. USD 10.80 (pbk.) 18. Mu?ller, F. Max (Friedrich Max), 1823-1900. [India : what can it teach us?. Malayalam] Intya : atina? namme ent pat?hippikkuva?n kal?iyum?? : le?khanan?n?al? / Ma?ks Mul?l?ar ; vivarttanam?, Ke. Ke. Si. Na?yar. -- 3rd ed. -- Kottayam : Sa?hityapravarttaka Sahakaran?asan?gham? : Sales Dept., Na?s?an?al Bukk St?t?a?l?, 2013. 207 p. ; 22 cm. In Malayalam. Translated from English. Added title on cover: India : what it can teach us?; Title on p. facing t.p.: India : athinu namme enthu patippikkuvan kazhiyum?. Seven lectures on Indian culture, society and Sanskrit literature delivered by the author at Cambridge University in 1882. ISBN 9789382654827 (pbk.) 1. India.--Civilization. 2. Vedas. 3. Sanskrit literature--History and criticism. USD 10.90 (pbk.) ??????????????????? Christophe Vielle Louvain-la-Neuve -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: mein-kamph-228x228.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 10451 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: meinkamph50-74x74.gif Type: image/gif Size: 2107 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: meinkamph51-74x74.gif Type: image/gif Size: 2504 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: TA007670.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 4677 bytes Desc: not available URL: From dipak.d2004 at gmail.com Thu May 22 17:22:42 2014 From: dipak.d2004 at gmail.com (Dipak Bhattacharya) Date: Thu, 22 May 14 22:52:42 +0530 Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_[INDOLOGY]_Hitler's_a=CC=84tmakatha?= In-Reply-To: <3C9A0DF6-462F-4732-8F16-932680510AB8@uclouvain.be> Message-ID: Professor Vielle starts . The answer to this question is not explicit in the first paragraph. I failed to find that in the maze of pictures and quotations. But the answer is easy. For some reason the Mein Kampf is easily available in the West too. The same reason should hold good for India. I request my Western colleagues to assert the cause from native experience. There is nothing special Indian here. Another case is more interesting. The Kaamasuutra appeared many many times in newer and newer editions in the West. In India too, but with less frequency. The opposite is true of Kautilya's Arthasatra. The collective psyche might mildly vary. Never mind that DB On Thu, May 22, 2014 at 10:33 PM, Christophe Vielle < christophe.vielle at uclouvain.be> wrote: > It remains to be studied why this book, so sulfurously dealt with in > Western countries, has been made so easily available in various Indian > languages (as far as I can check) - even if it is certainly not a > best-seller on each of these different regional book-markets. Usually, it > is rather the Western "classics" or modern popular novels or essays which > are translated (see a few samples below). Apparently it is less for its > historical (exemplary negative) value (as a political pamphlet) than > because it is has been considered as a "super world famous autobiography" > that it has been published and is sold as such. Strange. The Malayalam > version (which keeps the German title, differently from the Tamil one which > translates it) is furnished with an historical introduction and contrastive > supplements. The same Publisher, a "normal" generalist one I would say, has > also published books on Mother Theresa, on Ambedkar, Gandhi's Diary, Kerala > communism, Malayalam translation of King Salomon Mines "classic", > translation of the screenplay of the Godfather "legendary movie", a history > of football, etc. etc. (interesting in fact to look at the huge number and > the variety of its publications). > > > http://www.indulekha.com/mein-kamph-hitlerude-aathmakatha-adolf%20hitler-autobiography-malayalam?author_id=29 > > > > > [image: > Mein Kamph: Hitlerude Aathmakatha][image: > Mein Kamph: Hitlerude Aathmakatha] > By: Adolf Hitler > Publisher: Olive / Papiyon / Harmony > Shipping: World wide > Category: Malayalam Memoirs > Reward Points: 0 > Availability: In Stock > Free Shipping in India for orders above Rs. 501/- > Price: Rs240.00 > > > > DescriptionReviews > (2) > > One of the most popular autobiographies in the world; one of the most > notorius authors in history: Mein Kamph and Adolf Hitler. This malayalam > edition of Mein Kamph comes with a lot of rare photos. Two notes appended; > first by Charlie Chaplin who mocked Hitler in his movie The Great Dictator > and the second by Elie Wiesel. > > V P Subair did the translation, in a very readable language. There's an > introduction by Prof. M N Vijayan. > > *Malayalam Title*: ???????? ?????- ???????????? ?????? > *Pages*: 338 > *Size*: Demy 1/8 > *Binding*: Paperback > *Edition*: 2008 September > *Geetha Venugopal* | [image: 2 reviews] > 28/02/2014 > > valare prathikshayodeyanu ithu vayikanirunnathu. pakhse nirasa ayirunnu . > Ithu mein kamphinte paribhashayo atho hiduismthinu ethirayulla > pracharanamo? Njan oru rashtriyathilum viswasikkunna alalla. Mein kampf > inte honest ayulla oru translation anu njagale poleyullavarku vendathu. > Ithu poleyulla oru book vivarthanam cheyyumbol athil mattu rashtriyam > cherkathirikkuka. > *krishna* | [image: 2 reviews] > 04/02/2014 > > oru rastriyathilum viswasikkatha oru kootam vayankarund ennu > manasilakkuka.hitlerude athmakadyilude vimarshangal alla vendath. > vimarshikkan rastriya bookukal ezhuthunnathanu nallath.evide vendath mein > kamph inte malayalam paribasha matramanu. allathe India ude rastrya bhavi > alla. > > http://www.tamilbooksonline.in/searchbooks1.php?code=TA007670 > ???? ?????????? > ENATHU PORATTAM (MEIN KAMPF) > AUTHOR:ADOLF HITLER > Price:Rs.200 > > > *6. Buffett, Mary.* > [New Buffettology. Malayalam] > Da nyu? baphat?t?o?l?aji : ma?r?ikkon?t?irikkunna vipan?ikal?il vijayakarama?yi > niks?e?pam? nat?atti lo?katte e?t?t?avum? pras?astana?ya niks?e?pakana?yi ma?r?iya > Va?r?an Baphat?t?int?e payat?t?ittel?in?n?a niks?e?patantran?n?al? / Me?ri Baphat?t?, D?e?vid? > Kl?a?rkk ; vivarttanam?, Dili?p Philipp. -- Kottayam : DC Life : Distributors, > Current Books, 2013. > 294 p. ; 21 cm. > In Malayalam. > Translated from English. > Added title on cover: New Buffettology. > "Va?r?an Baphat?t?ine lo?katte e?t?t?avum? valiya dhanikanum? > niks?e?pakanuma?kkiya tantran?n?al?"--Cover. > Includes index. > ISBN 9788126448753 (pbk.) > 1. Buffett, Warren. 2. Investments. > USD 12.70 (pbk.) > > *7. Jobs, Steve, *1955-2011. > [I, Steve : SteveJobs, in his own words. Malayalam] > N?a?n St?t?i?v : [St?t?i?v Jo?bsint?e ji?vitam? svantam? va?kkukal?il] / ed?it?t?ar, Jo?rj > Bi?m? ; paribha?s?a, Jo?saph La?ye?l. -- Kottayam : D C Books : Distributors, > Current Books, 2012. > 167 p. ; 21 cm. > In Malayalam. > Translated from English. > Added titlte on cover: I, Steve : Steve Jobs in his own words; Title > on t.p. verso in roman: Nja?n Steve. > Collection of direct quotes from Steve Jobs on topics related to > business, technology, Apple, and life. > > "Asa?dha?ran?ama?ya a?s?ayamikavina?l a?dhunikalo?katte munno?t?t?u > nayicca St?t?i?v Jo?bsint?e praco?dana?tmakama?ya ji?vita?dhya?yan?n?al?"--Cover. > ISBN 9788126434886 (pbk.) > 1. Jobs, Steve, 1955-2011.--Quotations. 2. Apple Computer, Inc. > 3. Businesspeople--United States--Quotations. 4. Success in business- > Quotations. > USD 9.00 (pbk.) > > > > > > *4. Camus, Albert, *1913-1960. > [E?tranger. Malayalam] > Anyan / Albe?r Kamyu ; paribha?s?a, A?lakka?t?t? Salila. -- Kottayam : DC > Books : Distributors, Current Books, 2013. > 110 p. ; 21 cm. > Novel. > In Malayalam. > Translated from French. > Title on t.p. verso in roman: Annyan; Added title on cover: > L'etranger. > Novel based on an ordinary man who gets drawn into a senseless > murder in a beach outside Algeria. > ISBN 9788126441433 (pbk.) > 1. Murder--Fiction. 2. Algeria.--Fiction. 3. Adventure stories. 4. > French fiction.--Translations into Malayalam. > USD 5.80 (pbk.) > > > *24. Roth, Philip.* > [Plot against America. Malayalam] > Ame?rikkaykketire upaja?pam? / Philipp R?o?tt ; vivarttanam?, Es. > S?ri?niva?san. -- Kottayam : D C Books : Distributors, Current Books, 2011. > 439 p. ; 21 cm. > Novel. > In Malayalam. > Translated from English. > Title on t.p. verso in roman: Americkakkethire upaja?pam; Added > title on cover: Plot against America. > Novel on Lindbergh Charles Augustus, 1902-1974, Aviator, > author, social activist. > ISBN 9788126429240 (pbk.) > 1. Lindbergh, Charles A. (Charles Augustus), 1902-1974.--Fiction. > 2. Presidents--United States--Fiction. 3. Presidents--Election--Fiction. 4. > Jews--United States--Fiction. 5. Antisemitism--Fiction. 6. Jewish fiction. > 7. Political fiction, American.--Translations into Malayalam. > > > > *20. Le Cle?zio, J.-M. G. (Jean-Marie Gustave), *1940- > [E?toile errante. Malayalam] > Alayunna naks?atram? / Je. Em?. Ji. Le Kl?esiyo? ; paribha?s?a, > De?s?aman?galam? Ra?makr?s?n?an. -- Kottayam : D C Books : Distributors, > Current Books, 2011. > 256 p. ; 21 cm. > Novel. > In Malayalam. > Original in French; translated from English. > Title on t.p. verso in roman: Alayunna nakshathram; Title on t.p. > verso in French: Etoile errante; Added title on cover: Wandering star. > Novel on the life of Palestinian refugees. > > "Sa?hityattinul?l?a Nobe?l Samma?nam? ne?t?iya Je. Em?. Ji. Le Kl?esiyo? "- > Cover. > ISBN 9788126434275 (pbk.) > 1. Refugees--Palestine--Social life and customs--Fiction. 2. French > fiction.--Translations into Malayalam. > USD 13.50 (pbk.) > > 25. Shelly, Mary, 1797-1851. > > [Frankenstein. Malayalam] > > Phra?n?kanst?t?ain athava? mo?d?e?n? promi?tyas / Me?ri S?elli ; paribha?s?a, > Em?. Pi. Sada?s?ivan. -- 1st ed. -- Kozhikode : Olive Publications, 2009. > 202 p. ; 22 cm. -- (Olive classic library) > Novel. > In Malayalam. > Translated from English. > Title on t.p. verso in roman: Frankenstein adhava modern > promithias; Added title on cover: Frankenstein. > ISBN 8188779237 (pbk.) > 1. English fiction.--Translations into Malayalam. > USD 9.90 (pbk.) > > *8. Goethe, Johann Wolfgang von, *1749-1832. > Vertar?ut?e dukhan?n?al? : no?val / Yoha?n Vol?phga?n? Phon? Gethe ; > paribha?s?a, Sul?phi. -- 1st. ed. -- Kozhikode : Pappiyon, 2010. > 153 p. ; 22 cm. -- (Pappiyon classic library) > Novel. > In Malayalam. > Translated from German. > Title on t.p. verso in roman: Vertherude dhukhangal. > ISBN 9788187474470 (pbk.) > 1. German fiction.--Translations into Malayalam. > USD 9.00 (pbk.) > > *5. Burroughs, Edgar Rice, *1875-1950. > [Jungle tales of Tarzan. Malayalam] > T?a?rsan ka?t?t?ile kathakal? / Ed?ga?r R?ais Bar?o?s ; [translation, Suresh > Kumar]. -- Ko?t?t?ayam? : R?i?gal Pabl?is?e?l?s, [2011?] > 263 p. ; 19 cm. -- (Ri?gal no?val ; 6) > Novel. > In Malayalam. > Translated from English. > Title on t.p. verso: Jungle tales of Tarzan. > Reprint. Originally published: 1984. > Novel on Tarzan, a fictitious character. > 1. Tarzan (Fictitious character)--Fiction. 2. Jungles--Fiction. 3. > American fiction.--Translations into Malayalam. > USD 10.80 (pbk.) > > *18. Mu?ller, F. Max (Friedrich Max), *1823-1900. > [India : what can it teach us?. Malayalam] > Intya : atina? namme ent pat?hippikkuva?n kal?iyum?? : le?khanan?n?al? / > Ma?ks Mul?l?ar ; vivarttanam?, Ke. Ke. Si. Na?yar. -- 3rd ed. -- Kottayam : > Sa?hityapravarttaka Sahakaran?asan?gham? : Sales Dept., Na?s?an?al Bukk > St?t?a?l?, 2013. > 207 p. ; 22 cm. > In Malayalam. > Translated from English. > Added title on cover: India : what it can teach us?; Title on p. > facing t.p.: India : athinu namme enthu patippikkuvan kazhiyum?. > Seven lectures on Indian culture, society and Sanskrit literature > delivered by the author at Cambridge University in 1882. > ISBN 9789382654827 (pbk.) > 1. India.--Civilization. 2. Vedas. 3. Sanskrit literature--History and > criticism. > USD 10.90 (pbk.) > > > ??????????????????? > Christophe Vielle > Louvain-la-Neuve > > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > http://listinfo.indology.info > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... 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Name: mein-kamph-228x228.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 10451 bytes Desc: not available URL: From philipp.a.maas at gmail.com Thu May 22 18:43:49 2014 From: philipp.a.maas at gmail.com (Philipp Maas) Date: Thu, 22 May 14 20:43:49 +0200 Subject: [INDOLOGY] In defense of MLBD In-Reply-To: Message-ID: In my understanding of the social role of the academia, academics and other intellectuals have the right (and even the obligation) to address the society as a whole or social institutions (among which I would also count publishers and book-sellers) whenever they feel the need to do so. This right, in my view, exists irrespective of the nationality of those who address and of those who are addressed. As far as I can see, many German colleagues were happy when people from foreign countries signed the petitions for maintaining Indological chairs at, for example, Berlin. Even if one takes into account that different cultures have different values, there are universal human rights. In the present case, i.e. with regard to the question of how to judge the advertising and distribution of Hitler?s ?Mein Kampf? in India by to MLBD, obviously two human rights oppose each other: (article 1): All human beings are born free and equal in dignity and rights. They are endowed with reason and conscience and should act towards one another in a spirit of brotherhood and (article 19) Everyone has the right to freedom of opinion and expression. I think that as members of institutions that are designed for research and teaching we (me included) are full entitled to communicate to MLBD that it is a mistake to advertise and offer Hitler?s work for sale, because (1.) the intention of the work is to violate human dignity, and (2.) its advertisement and distribution actually contributes to the violation of the dignity of millions of innocent victims and their descendents. In my judgement, and I think that this is a general consensus of the society in Germany today, this weights much heavier than the right of freedom of expression. Moreover, I would like to use this opportunity to express my uneasiness with an argument that came up in the recent discussion. In view of the dimension of the crimes that Germans have committed during the Nazi rule, any attempt to relativize the impact of ?Mein Kampf? for the Nazi movement by even comparing it with, for example, the work of Heidegger is out of place. Philipp Maas 2014-05-20 16:48 GMT+02:00 Walser, Joseph : > I have been keeping silent for a while, largely because whenever scholars > think they catch a whiff of anti-semitism, there inevitably follows a > barrage of angry emails and I, like anyone else, would hate to be painted > with that brush. But I have to agree with Robert. Furthermore, while I do > understand that there are many benighted (and well-caffienated) souls out > there who may order Mein Kampf for inspirational reading, do we as a > scholarly community want to see works become unavailable simply because the > work (or the author) promotes something horrific? What if I am writing an > article on Nazi influences on Jakob Hauer's writings on yoga? Conceivably I > might want to consult a copy of Mein Kampf and I might turn to MLBD to get > a cheap copy. I suspect that most scholars who own a copy, bought it for > scholarly purposes. If we as a scholarly community want to wipe the world > clean of Nazi ideas, we enter a slippery slope that ends up not being very > scholarly. Do we also boycott presses that publish Carl Schmitt's Political > Theology (a demonically brilliant argument for the suspension of the Wiemar > Constitution)? Do we boycott the works of (many) political theorists who > use his ideas? What about Heidegger? On the other hand, if there are bozos > out there who can stay awake through it enough to endorse Hitler's agenda, > wouldn't it be helpful to have access to a copy? > > This thread started by pointing out the hypocrisy of Penguin pulping a > work of indology while letting Mein Kampf be published. I get the irony. > But what stared out as an observation has now become a movement to hurt a > press that had nothing to do with the pulping of Wendy's book. If anybody > cares to read the blurb for the book on the MLBD site, they will see that > MLBD is NOT promoting the agenda of the book. Allow me to quote: > > Mein Kampf will give you an insight into one of the greatest evil geniuses > of the last century; his political ideals, his beliefs and motivation, and > his struggle to consolidate Germany into one great nation, and a Nazi-Third > Reich. > > "The terror and the brutal treatment he unleashed during his years of > power can be best said in his own words: ??Cruelty impresses, people want > to be afraid of something. They want someone to whom they can submit with a > shudder, the masses need that. They need something to dread?? > > "This great tyrant will go down in the history of the world. And all those > who lived through the holocaust will shudder to think that such a man was > ever born, and fervently wish that such a history would never repeat > itself. " > > This is hardly a promotion of an anti-semitic agenda. Let's save our > collective ire for folks that deserve it. I am sure I am going to get > flamed for saying this, but somebody had to. > -j > > Joseph Walser > Associate Professor > Department of Religion > Tufts University > > ________________________________________ > From: INDOLOGY [indology-bounces at list.indology.info] on behalf of Robert > Zydenbos [zydenbos at uni-muenchen.de] > Sent: Tuesday, May 20, 2014 9:50 AM > To: Indology > Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] Hitler and MLBD > > A view on this not really Indological matter from an Indologist in > Munich, Bavaria (the historical starting place, which is why I regularly > deal with such questions; again in class, last Monday). > > (Situation in Germany:) It is not true that the Government of Bavaria > ?refuses to allow any copying or printing of the book in Germany? > (sorry, Dominik, but the statement in your open letter is not quite > accurate). In fact, the Bavarian government has subsidized a new, > historically critical edition of the book by the Institut f?r > Zeitgeschichte with an amount of half a million euros. In spite of > support from many German Jews for this idea > ( > http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/08/12/german-jews-want-mein-kam_n_257937.html > ), > the present chief minister of Bavaria suddenly announced, a few months > ago, the stopping of a further subsidizing, apparently because of > protests from certain other Jewish groups (which I consider foolish: > both the protests as well as the interruption of the subsidy, and this > stop has been criticized by oppositional left-wing political parties in > the Bavarian parliament), but the editing work continues. For the latest > details, see http://www.br.de/nachrichten/mein-kampf-hitler-100.html > > (Prohibition through exercise of copyright:) The Bavarian government has > been quite selective in exercising its copyright to prohibit new > editions of the book elsewhere. E.g., nothing has been undertaken > against several editions in Israel (see > https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mein_Kampf#Aktuelle_Rechtslage). > > (Availability and how to deal with it:) ?Mein Kampf? is freely available > anyway, as has already been amply pointed out in this thread. The > critical edition (see above; also an edition for schools is planned) is > meant to counterbalance the surge of new editions that unavoidably will > appear from 2015 onwards > ( > http://www.deutschlandfunk.de/der-kampf-um-mein-kampf.724.de.html?dram:article_id=99882 > ). > If MLBD brings out an integral edition of the book (not historically > critical, but at least complete; does it have an explanatory preface? > Has anybody seen it?), then readers can judge for themselves just how > dull and crazy it is. (How many of the prudishly politically correct > critics in this thread have actually read it? I stopped reading it ? > precisely because most of it is dull, and the rest is crazy in a not > entertaining way.) This craziness may not be so visible if, in an > uncontrolled manner, mere excerpts are published, which is not what MLBD > has / had in mind. Furthermore, MLBD explicitly speaks / spoke of the > author on its website as ?evil?, thus explicitly not endorsing the > contents of the book (did anybody here see that? Or were we too busy > being outraged?). > > (Commercialism:) MLBD is a commercial publisher and evidently has > stopped being a purely academically Indological publisher at least for > some time now (if ever they have been one). Already for years they have > been bringing out books on all sorts of topics, many of which, in my > view, are rather trashy. Is it really fair to be intercontinentally > critical of them while their commercial competitors, like Jaico, are > making money with it? Like Amazon and Barnes and Noble sell it? > (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mein_Kampf#Online_availability) > > (Consistency:) If the overseas academic community cries out against the > banning of books in India (Doniger, Ramanujan) in the name of freedom of > expression, it looks odd that such people demand a ban on this old book > for reasons which hardly any Indian understands (cf. for an illustration > Veeranarayana Pandurangi?s characteristic post in this thread, last > Sunday). > > (Effectiveness of protest:) Hitler?s book has already been popular in > India for a long time, apparently esp. among Hindu nationalists (see > ?Hitler als ?Management-Guru? in Indien? - > http://www.20min.ch/ausland/news/story/29880511). It seems that India > demands the right to make every mistake the West has made, from > environmental destruction, turbo capitalism, nuclear armaments, to > reading warped books. A mere loud condemnation of (just another) edition > of Hitler?s book coming from the West is likely to be seen as yet > another bit of neo-colonial holier-than-thou moralizing. What > effectively is being said is ?Americans and Israelis should read the > book, but it is too dangerous for you foolish Indians to have it?, and I > do not think that any Indian wants to hear that. Banning a book has > never stopped the spread of nefarious ideas anyway (only better books, > open discussion and explanation do that), and if we make a fuss, it may > only mean additional publicity for something that we do not want to see > popularized. > > (Superfluousness:) For whatever reason, MLBD has apparently already > taken down the offer from its website www.mlbd.com as of today (May 20, > 2014). This may mean that this entire discussion, the open letter etc. > are superfluous. (Or it may mean that only the online advertising has > stopped, but not the production and sale. I do not know.) > > Because I believe protests to MLBD in this matter are unfair, > discriminatory, ideologically ineffective, not Indological, at worst > publicitywise counter-productive, and perhaps superfluous anyway, I will > not sign the public petition. > > Robert Zydenbos > > -- > Prof. Dr. Robert J. Zydenbos > Institut f?r Indologie und Tibetologie > Department f?r Asienstudien > Ludwig-Maximilians-Universit?t M?nchen (LMU) > > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > http://listinfo.indology.info > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > http://listinfo.indology.info > -- Dr. Philipp A. Maas Universit?tsassistent Institut f?r S?dasien-, Tibet- und Buddhismuskunde Universit?t Wien Spitalgasse 2-4, Hof 2, Eingang 2.1 A-1090 Wien ?sterreich univie.academia.edu/PhilippMaas -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Joseph.Walser at tufts.edu Thu May 22 19:09:37 2014 From: Joseph.Walser at tufts.edu (Walser, Joseph) Date: Thu, 22 May 14 19:09:37 +0000 Subject: [INDOLOGY] In defense of MLBD In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Philip I am assuming that you are referring to my email. I was hoping folks would move on, because this discussion doesn't seem to be getting anywhere. Anyway, if what you got out of my email was that I was trying to "relativize" Mein Kampf by comparing it to Heidegger, then you need to read more carefully. I was making a slippery-slope argument, so obviously the two ends of the slope are not identical. However, if you don't fancy that argument, then go back to my Carl Schmitt example, because he was definitely sitting on the top of the slide with Hitler (as were Hauer, etc.). All I was saying is that, as a scholar, I maintain that these works remain important and should be published. That said, I think that it is problematic to use any of these works (political or indological) without an understanding of the larger political world they were part of. And how are we to get that understanding without reading and writing about some pretty horrific material? On the other hand, if scholars do not engage these works regularly, then we abdicate the field to a lot of misguided individuals who will then be the only voices out there. Either that, or a future generation will be ignorant of the connection between these ideas and the atrocities they produced and will be doomed to repeat them. Nazi ideology might be, as Nietzsche said "scabies of the heart," but you can't catch it from a bookstore. If anything you bring it in with you. Ok, back to work. -j Joseph Walser Associate Professor Department of Religion Tufts University ________________________________ From: INDOLOGY [indology-bounces at list.indology.info] on behalf of Philipp Maas [philipp.a.maas at gmail.com] Sent: Thursday, May 22, 2014 2:43 PM To: Indology Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] In defense of MLBD In my understanding of the social role of the academia, academics and other intellectuals have the right (and even the obligation) to address the society as a whole or social institutions (among which I would also count publishers and book-sellers) whenever they feel the need to do so. This right, in my view, exists irrespective of the nationality of those who address and of those who are addressed. As far as I can see, many German colleagues were happy when people from foreign countries signed the petitions for maintaining Indological chairs at, for example, Berlin. Even if one takes into account that different cultures have different values, there are universal human rights. In the present case, i.e. with regard to the question of how to judge the advertising and distribution of Hitler?s ?Mein Kampf? in India by to MLBD, obviously two human rights oppose each other: (article 1): All human beings are born free and equal in dignity and rights. They are endowed with reason and conscience and should act towards one another in a spirit of brotherhood and (article 19) Everyone has the right to freedom of opinion and expression. I think that as members of institutions that are designed for research and teaching we (me included) are full entitled to communicate to MLBD that it is a mistake to advertise and offer Hitler?s work for sale, because (1.) the intention of the work is to violate human dignity, and (2.) its advertisement and distribution actually contributes to the violation of the dignity of millions of innocent victims and their descendents. In my judgement, and I think that this is a general consensus of the society in Germany today, this weights much heavier than the right of freedom of expression. Moreover, I would like to use this opportunity to express my uneasiness with an argument that came up in the recent discussion. In view of the dimension of the crimes that Germans have committed during the Nazi rule, any attempt to relativize the impact of ?Mein Kampf? for the Nazi movement by even comparing it with, for example, the work of Heidegger is out of place. Philipp Maas 2014-05-20 16:48 GMT+02:00 Walser, Joseph >: I have been keeping silent for a while, largely because whenever scholars think they catch a whiff of anti-semitism, there inevitably follows a barrage of angry emails and I, like anyone else, would hate to be painted with that brush. But I have to agree with Robert. Furthermore, while I do understand that there are many benighted (and well-caffienated) souls out there who may order Mein Kampf for inspirational reading, do we as a scholarly community want to see works become unavailable simply because the work (or the author) promotes something horrific? What if I am writing an article on Nazi influences on Jakob Hauer's writings on yoga? Conceivably I might want to consult a copy of Mein Kampf and I might turn to MLBD to get a cheap copy. I suspect that most scholars who own a copy, bought it for scholarly purposes. If we as a scholarly community want to wipe the world clean of Nazi ideas, we enter a slippery slope that ends up not being very scholarly. Do we also boycott presses that publish Carl Schmitt's Political Theology (a demonically brilliant argument for the suspension of the Wiemar Constitution)? Do we boycott the works of (many) political theorists who use his ideas? What about Heidegger? On the other hand, if there are bozos out there who can stay awake through it enough to endorse Hitler's agenda, wouldn't it be helpful to have access to a copy? This thread started by pointing out the hypocrisy of Penguin pulping a work of indology while letting Mein Kampf be published. I get the irony. But what stared out as an observation has now become a movement to hurt a press that had nothing to do with the pulping of Wendy's book. If anybody cares to read the blurb for the book on the MLBD site, they will see that MLBD is NOT promoting the agenda of the book. Allow me to quote: Mein Kampf will give you an insight into one of the greatest evil geniuses of the last century; his political ideals, his beliefs and motivation, and his struggle to consolidate Germany into one great nation, and a Nazi-Third Reich. "The terror and the brutal treatment he unleashed during his years of power can be best said in his own words: ??Cruelty impresses, people want to be afraid of something. They want someone to whom they can submit with a shudder, the masses need that. They need something to dread?? "This great tyrant will go down in the history of the world. And all those who lived through the holocaust will shudder to think that such a man was ever born, and fervently wish that such a history would never repeat itself. " This is hardly a promotion of an anti-semitic agenda. Let's save our collective ire for folks that deserve it. I am sure I am going to get flamed for saying this, but somebody had to. -j Joseph Walser Associate Professor Department of Religion Tufts University ________________________________________ From: INDOLOGY [indology-bounces at list.indology.info] on behalf of Robert Zydenbos [zydenbos at uni-muenchen.de] Sent: Tuesday, May 20, 2014 9:50 AM To: Indology Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] Hitler and MLBD A view on this not really Indological matter from an Indologist in Munich, Bavaria (the historical starting place, which is why I regularly deal with such questions; again in class, last Monday). (Situation in Germany:) It is not true that the Government of Bavaria ?refuses to allow any copying or printing of the book in Germany? (sorry, Dominik, but the statement in your open letter is not quite accurate). In fact, the Bavarian government has subsidized a new, historically critical edition of the book by the Institut f?r Zeitgeschichte with an amount of half a million euros. In spite of support from many German Jews for this idea (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/08/12/german-jews-want-mein-kam_n_257937.html), the present chief minister of Bavaria suddenly announced, a few months ago, the stopping of a further subsidizing, apparently because of protests from certain other Jewish groups (which I consider foolish: both the protests as well as the interruption of the subsidy, and this stop has been criticized by oppositional left-wing political parties in the Bavarian parliament), but the editing work continues. For the latest details, see http://www.br.de/nachrichten/mein-kampf-hitler-100.html (Prohibition through exercise of copyright:) The Bavarian government has been quite selective in exercising its copyright to prohibit new editions of the book elsewhere. E.g., nothing has been undertaken against several editions in Israel (see https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mein_Kampf#Aktuelle_Rechtslage). (Availability and how to deal with it:) ?Mein Kampf? is freely available anyway, as has already been amply pointed out in this thread. The critical edition (see above; also an edition for schools is planned) is meant to counterbalance the surge of new editions that unavoidably will appear from 2015 onwards (http://www.deutschlandfunk.de/der-kampf-um-mein-kampf.724.de.html?dram:article_id=99882). If MLBD brings out an integral edition of the book (not historically critical, but at least complete; does it have an explanatory preface? Has anybody seen it?), then readers can judge for themselves just how dull and crazy it is. (How many of the prudishly politically correct critics in this thread have actually read it? I stopped reading it ? precisely because most of it is dull, and the rest is crazy in a not entertaining way.) This craziness may not be so visible if, in an uncontrolled manner, mere excerpts are published, which is not what MLBD has / had in mind. Furthermore, MLBD explicitly speaks / spoke of the author on its website as ?evil?, thus explicitly not endorsing the contents of the book (did anybody here see that? Or were we too busy being outraged?). (Commercialism:) MLBD is a commercial publisher and evidently has stopped being a purely academically Indological publisher at least for some time now (if ever they have been one). Already for years they have been bringing out books on all sorts of topics, many of which, in my view, are rather trashy. Is it really fair to be intercontinentally critical of them while their commercial competitors, like Jaico, are making money with it? Like Amazon and Barnes and Noble sell it? (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mein_Kampf#Online_availability) (Consistency:) If the overseas academic community cries out against the banning of books in India (Doniger, Ramanujan) in the name of freedom of expression, it looks odd that such people demand a ban on this old book for reasons which hardly any Indian understands (cf. for an illustration Veeranarayana Pandurangi?s characteristic post in this thread, last Sunday). (Effectiveness of protest:) Hitler?s book has already been popular in India for a long time, apparently esp. among Hindu nationalists (see ?Hitler als ?Management-Guru? in Indien? - http://www.20min.ch/ausland/news/story/29880511). It seems that India demands the right to make every mistake the West has made, from environmental destruction, turbo capitalism, nuclear armaments, to reading warped books. A mere loud condemnation of (just another) edition of Hitler?s book coming from the West is likely to be seen as yet another bit of neo-colonial holier-than-thou moralizing. What effectively is being said is ?Americans and Israelis should read the book, but it is too dangerous for you foolish Indians to have it?, and I do not think that any Indian wants to hear that. Banning a book has never stopped the spread of nefarious ideas anyway (only better books, open discussion and explanation do that), and if we make a fuss, it may only mean additional publicity for something that we do not want to see popularized. (Superfluousness:) For whatever reason, MLBD has apparently already taken down the offer from its website www.mlbd.com as of today (May 20, 2014). This may mean that this entire discussion, the open letter etc. are superfluous. (Or it may mean that only the online advertising has stopped, but not the production and sale. I do not know.) Because I believe protests to MLBD in this matter are unfair, discriminatory, ideologically ineffective, not Indological, at worst publicitywise counter-productive, and perhaps superfluous anyway, I will not sign the public petition. Robert Zydenbos -- Prof. Dr. Robert J. Zydenbos Institut f?r Indologie und Tibetologie Department f?r Asienstudien Ludwig-Maximilians-Universit?t M?nchen (LMU) _______________________________________________ INDOLOGY mailing list INDOLOGY at list.indology.info http://listinfo.indology.info _______________________________________________ INDOLOGY mailing list INDOLOGY at list.indology.info http://listinfo.indology.info -- Dr. Philipp A. Maas Universit?tsassistent Institut f?r S?dasien-, Tibet- und Buddhismuskunde Universit?t Wien Spitalgasse 2-4, Hof 2, Eingang 2.1 A-1090 Wien ?sterreich univie.academia.edu/PhilippMaas -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From shyamr at yorku.ca Fri May 23 04:40:20 2014 From: shyamr at yorku.ca (Shyam Ranganathan) Date: Fri, 23 May 14 00:40:20 -0400 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Vedas: Divisions, Dating and Language In-Reply-To: <53718FED.3080805@yorku.ca> Message-ID: <537ED134.4050507@yorku.ca> Dear List Members I am grateful for all the insightful comments that members generously shared in response to my query. Here are the references: * Mimamsa, 2.1 (adhikaranas 7-8 and 10-12) in S'abara and Kuma-rila * James A. Santucci, "An Outline of Vedic Literature." (AAR) Minnesota: Scholar's Press. * Frits Staal's *Discovering the Vedas* Penguin, 2008. * Witzel and by Witzel and Jamieson, at http://indology.info/papers/ * Michael Witzel, "Tracing the Vedic Dialects" in Colette Caillat (ed.), Dialectes dans les litt?ratures indo-aryennes. Paris: Institut de Civilisation Indienne, 1989: 97-264 Many thanks! Shyam On 12/05/2014 11:22 PM, Shyam Ranganathan wrote: > Dear Indology List members, > > I appreciate that this may seem a basic question. It's so basic, I > don't have any fantastic references! > > I was hoping for references to authoritative accounts of the division > of the Vedas into versions (Rg, Yajur etc.,), parts (Mantra, Brahmana > etc.) and dates in English. > > I was also interested in linguistic accounts of the Vedas that might > distinguish the earlier and later Vedas on linguistic lines. > > All help is most appreciated! > > Gratefully yours, > Shyam > > -- Shyam Ranganathan, MA, MA, PhD Department of Philosophy Department of Social Science, South Asian Studies York University, Toronto -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dipak.d2004 at gmail.com Fri May 23 05:53:02 2014 From: dipak.d2004 at gmail.com (Dipak Bhattacharya) Date: Fri, 23 May 14 11:23:02 +0530 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Vedas: Divisions, Dating and Language In-Reply-To: <537ED134.4050507@yorku.ca> Message-ID: If the Indian tradition is taken as the decisive authority, in fact the names and main ideas are from tradition, a succinct statement is available in MadhusuudanaSarasvatii's Prasthaanabhedaa.h. Aided by a few other traditional compendia it furnishes material to devise an exhaustive two-dimensional structure. The Vedangas can be accommodated but things get complicated without new two dimensional structures for them. Unpublished tho (I hardly get time to arrange the material in a printable form) I taught these to foreign students for years with positive response. Two Belgian students stated that the treatment of the subject was somewhat similar in their country. I could not verify. The sandhi rules too are two-dimensionally structured and when communicated well-received by students. But this is on an exclusive plan not applicable to other divisions of categories. Was this of any help? As far as I remember the matter came up once long ago. Best DB On Fri, May 23, 2014 at 10:10 AM, Shyam Ranganathan wrote: > Dear List Members > > I am grateful for all the insightful comments that members generously > shared in response to my query. Here are the references: > > > - Mimamsa, 2.1 (adhikaranas 7-8 and 10-12) in ?abara and Kum?rila > - > > James A. Santucci, "An Outline of Vedic Literature." (AAR) Minnesota: Scholar's Press. > > - > > Frits Staal's *Discovering the Vedas* Penguin, 2008. > > - Witzel and by Witzel and Jamieson, at http://indology.info/papers/ > - > > Michael Witzel, "Tracing the Vedic Dialects" in Colette Caillat (ed.), Dialectes dans les litt?ratures indo-aryennes. Paris: Institut de Civilisation Indienne, 1989: 97-264 > > > > Many thanks! > Shyam > > > On 12/05/2014 11:22 PM, Shyam Ranganathan wrote: > > Dear Indology List members, > > I appreciate that this may seem a basic question. It's so basic, I don't > have any fantastic references! > > I was hoping for references to authoritative accounts of the division of > the Vedas into versions (Rg, Yajur etc.,), parts (Mantra, Brahmana etc.) > and dates in English. > > I was also interested in linguistic accounts of the Vedas that might > distinguish the earlier and later Vedas on linguistic lines. > > All help is most appreciated! > > Gratefully yours, > Shyam > > > > > -- > Shyam Ranganathan, MA, MA, PhD > Department of Philosophy > Department of Social Science, South Asian Studies > York University, Toronto > > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > http://listinfo.indology.info > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From james.hartzell at gmail.com Fri May 23 07:34:10 2014 From: james.hartzell at gmail.com (James Hartzell) Date: Fri, 23 May 14 09:34:10 +0200 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Vedas: Divisions, Dating and Language In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Dear Prof. Bhattacharya If you might have a scanned version of your material to share that would be wonderful. Cheers James On Fri, May 23, 2014 at 7:53 AM, Dipak Bhattacharya wrote: > If the Indian tradition is taken as the decisive authority, in fact the > names and main ideas are from tradition, a succinct statement is available > in MadhusuudanaSarasvatii's Prasthaanabhedaa.h. Aided by a few other > traditional compendia it furnishes material to devise an exhaustive > two-dimensional structure. The Vedangas can be accommodated but things get > complicated without new two dimensional structures for them. Unpublished tho > (I hardly get time to arrange the material in a printable form) I taught > these to foreign students for years with positive response. > Two Belgian students stated that the treatment of the subject was somewhat > similar in their country. I could not verify. > The sandhi rules too are two-dimensionally structured and when communicated > well-received by students. But this is on an exclusive plan not applicable > to other divisions of categories. > Was this of any help? As far as I remember the matter came up once long ago. > Best > DB > > > > On Fri, May 23, 2014 at 10:10 AM, Shyam Ranganathan wrote: >> >> Dear List Members >> >> I am grateful for all the insightful comments that members generously >> shared in response to my query. Here are the references: >> >> Mimamsa, 2.1 (adhikaranas 7-8 and 10-12) in ?abara and Kum?rila >> >> James A. Santucci, "An Outline of Vedic Literature." (AAR) Minnesota: >> Scholar's Press. >> >> Frits Staal's *Discovering the Vedas* Penguin, 2008. >> >> Witzel and by Witzel and Jamieson, at http://indology.info/papers/ >> >> Michael Witzel, "Tracing the Vedic Dialects" in Colette Caillat (ed.), >> Dialectes dans les litt?ratures indo-aryennes. Paris: Institut de >> Civilisation Indienne, 1989: 97-264 >> >> >> Many thanks! >> Shyam >> >> >> On 12/05/2014 11:22 PM, Shyam Ranganathan wrote: >> >> Dear Indology List members, >> >> I appreciate that this may seem a basic question. It's so basic, I don't >> have any fantastic references! >> >> I was hoping for references to authoritative accounts of the division of >> the Vedas into versions (Rg, Yajur etc.,), parts (Mantra, Brahmana etc.) >> and dates in English. >> >> I was also interested in linguistic accounts of the Vedas that might >> distinguish the earlier and later Vedas on linguistic lines. >> >> All help is most appreciated! >> >> Gratefully yours, >> Shyam >> >> >> >> >> -- >> Shyam Ranganathan, MA, MA, PhD >> Department of Philosophy >> Department of Social Science, South Asian Studies >> York University, Toronto >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> INDOLOGY mailing list >> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info >> http://listinfo.indology.info > > > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > http://listinfo.indology.info -- James Hartzell, PhD Center for Mind/Brain Sciences (CIMeC) The University of Trento, Italy From dipak.d2004 at gmail.com Fri May 23 07:52:34 2014 From: dipak.d2004 at gmail.com (Dipak Bhattacharya) Date: Fri, 23 May 14 13:22:34 +0530 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Vedas: Divisions, Dating and Language In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Dear Colleague, You really want! So many students took them to their lands, nobody spoke anything. So I shelved the matter for works that drew better response. But provided I get sufficient time to concentrate I shall try to devise something presentable -- not for the general reader which may be ridiculous but for individual need. The MLBD controversy took so much time, I regret that I could not be aloof. Must think of your request seriously later after offloading a bit. Thanks and best wishes DB On Fri, May 23, 2014 at 1:04 PM, James Hartzell wrote: > Dear Prof. Bhattacharya > If you might have a scanned version of your material to share that > would be wonderful. > Cheers > James > > On Fri, May 23, 2014 at 7:53 AM, Dipak Bhattacharya > wrote: > > If the Indian tradition is taken as the decisive authority, in fact the > > names and main ideas are from tradition, a succinct statement is > available > > in MadhusuudanaSarasvatii's Prasthaanabhedaa.h. Aided by a few other > > traditional compendia it furnishes material to devise an exhaustive > > two-dimensional structure. The Vedangas can be accommodated but things > get > > complicated without new two dimensional structures for them. Unpublished > tho > > (I hardly get time to arrange the material in a printable form) I taught > > these to foreign students for years with positive response. > > Two Belgian students stated that the treatment of the subject was > somewhat > > similar in their country. I could not verify. > > The sandhi rules too are two-dimensionally structured and when > communicated > > well-received by students. But this is on an exclusive plan not > applicable > > to other divisions of categories. > > Was this of any help? As far as I remember the matter came up once long > ago. > > Best > > DB > > > > > > > > On Fri, May 23, 2014 at 10:10 AM, Shyam Ranganathan > wrote: > >> > >> Dear List Members > >> > >> I am grateful for all the insightful comments that members generously > >> shared in response to my query. Here are the references: > >> > >> Mimamsa, 2.1 (adhikaranas 7-8 and 10-12) in ?abara and Kum?rila > >> > >> James A. Santucci, "An Outline of Vedic Literature." (AAR) Minnesota: > >> Scholar's Press. > >> > >> Frits Staal's *Discovering the Vedas* Penguin, 2008. > >> > >> Witzel and by Witzel and Jamieson, at http://indology.info/papers/ > >> > >> Michael Witzel, "Tracing the Vedic Dialects" in Colette Caillat (ed.), > >> Dialectes dans les litt?ratures indo-aryennes. Paris: Institut de > >> Civilisation Indienne, 1989: 97-264 > >> > >> > >> Many thanks! > >> Shyam > >> > >> > >> On 12/05/2014 11:22 PM, Shyam Ranganathan wrote: > >> > >> Dear Indology List members, > >> > >> I appreciate that this may seem a basic question. It's so basic, I don't > >> have any fantastic references! > >> > >> I was hoping for references to authoritative accounts of the division of > >> the Vedas into versions (Rg, Yajur etc.,), parts (Mantra, Brahmana etc.) > >> and dates in English. > >> > >> I was also interested in linguistic accounts of the Vedas that might > >> distinguish the earlier and later Vedas on linguistic lines. > >> > >> All help is most appreciated! > >> > >> Gratefully yours, > >> Shyam > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> -- > >> Shyam Ranganathan, MA, MA, PhD > >> Department of Philosophy > >> Department of Social Science, South Asian Studies > >> York University, Toronto > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> INDOLOGY mailing list > >> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > >> http://listinfo.indology.info > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > INDOLOGY mailing list > > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > > http://listinfo.indology.info > > > > -- > James Hartzell, PhD > Center for Mind/Brain Sciences (CIMeC) > The University of Trento, Italy > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From james.hartzell at gmail.com Fri May 23 07:53:21 2014 From: james.hartzell at gmail.com (James Hartzell) Date: Fri, 23 May 14 09:53:21 +0200 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Vedas: Divisions, Dating and Language In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Great, look forward to it. Buon lavoro! On Fri, May 23, 2014 at 9:52 AM, Dipak Bhattacharya wrote: > Dear Colleague, You really want! So many students took them to their lands, > nobody spoke anything. So I shelved the matter for works that drew better > response. But provided I get sufficient time to concentrate I shall try to > devise something presentable -- not for the general reader which may be > ridiculous but for individual need. The MLBD controversy took so much time, > I regret that I could not be aloof. Must think of your request seriously > later after offloading a bit. > Thanks and best wishes > DB > > > On Fri, May 23, 2014 at 1:04 PM, James Hartzell > wrote: >> >> Dear Prof. Bhattacharya >> If you might have a scanned version of your material to share that >> would be wonderful. >> Cheers >> James >> >> On Fri, May 23, 2014 at 7:53 AM, Dipak Bhattacharya >> wrote: >> > If the Indian tradition is taken as the decisive authority, in fact the >> > names and main ideas are from tradition, a succinct statement is >> > available >> > in MadhusuudanaSarasvatii's Prasthaanabhedaa.h. Aided by a few other >> > traditional compendia it furnishes material to devise an exhaustive >> > two-dimensional structure. The Vedangas can be accommodated but things >> > get >> > complicated without new two dimensional structures for them. Unpublished >> > tho >> > (I hardly get time to arrange the material in a printable form) I taught >> > these to foreign students for years with positive response. >> > Two Belgian students stated that the treatment of the subject was >> > somewhat >> > similar in their country. I could not verify. >> > The sandhi rules too are two-dimensionally structured and when >> > communicated >> > well-received by students. But this is on an exclusive plan not >> > applicable >> > to other divisions of categories. >> > Was this of any help? As far as I remember the matter came up once long >> > ago. >> > Best >> > DB >> > >> > >> > >> > On Fri, May 23, 2014 at 10:10 AM, Shyam Ranganathan >> > wrote: >> >> >> >> Dear List Members >> >> >> >> I am grateful for all the insightful comments that members generously >> >> shared in response to my query. Here are the references: >> >> >> >> Mimamsa, 2.1 (adhikaranas 7-8 and 10-12) in ?abara and Kum?rila >> >> >> >> James A. Santucci, "An Outline of Vedic Literature." (AAR) Minnesota: >> >> Scholar's Press. >> >> >> >> Frits Staal's *Discovering the Vedas* Penguin, 2008. >> >> >> >> Witzel and by Witzel and Jamieson, at http://indology.info/papers/ >> >> >> >> Michael Witzel, "Tracing the Vedic Dialects" in Colette Caillat (ed.), >> >> Dialectes dans les litt?ratures indo-aryennes. Paris: Institut de >> >> Civilisation Indienne, 1989: 97-264 >> >> >> >> >> >> Many thanks! >> >> Shyam >> >> >> >> >> >> On 12/05/2014 11:22 PM, Shyam Ranganathan wrote: >> >> >> >> Dear Indology List members, >> >> >> >> I appreciate that this may seem a basic question. It's so basic, I >> >> don't >> >> have any fantastic references! >> >> >> >> I was hoping for references to authoritative accounts of the division >> >> of >> >> the Vedas into versions (Rg, Yajur etc.,), parts (Mantra, Brahmana >> >> etc.) >> >> and dates in English. >> >> >> >> I was also interested in linguistic accounts of the Vedas that might >> >> distinguish the earlier and later Vedas on linguistic lines. >> >> >> >> All help is most appreciated! >> >> >> >> Gratefully yours, >> >> Shyam >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> -- >> >> Shyam Ranganathan, MA, MA, PhD >> >> Department of Philosophy >> >> Department of Social Science, South Asian Studies >> >> York University, Toronto >> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> INDOLOGY mailing list >> >> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info >> >> http://listinfo.indology.info >> > >> > >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > INDOLOGY mailing list >> > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info >> > http://listinfo.indology.info >> >> >> >> -- >> James Hartzell, PhD >> Center for Mind/Brain Sciences (CIMeC) >> The University of Trento, Italy > > -- James Hartzell, PhD Center for Mind/Brain Sciences (CIMeC) The University of Trento, Italy From gruenen at sub.uni-goettingen.de Fri May 23 10:29:37 2014 From: gruenen at sub.uni-goettingen.de (Gruenendahl, Reinhold) Date: Fri, 23 May 14 10:29:37 +0000 Subject: [INDOLOGY] In defense of MLBD In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <044C4CE033BD474EBE2ACACE8E4B1D949C2F205E@UM-excdag-a02.um.gwdg.de> John M. Ellis' book "Literature Lost - Social Agendas and the Corruption of the Humanities" (New Haven & London : Yale UP 1997) has a chapter on "Activism and Knowledge" (140-159). There Ellis disusses three examples of social/political activism in the humanities, with interesting observations on the role of the "multisignature letter" as a means of suppressing publications, etc. From these examples he concludes (157f.): "The prevalence of these episodes in which scholars organize them?selves into gangs shows how academic life is degraded when po?litical commitments become central to it: minds become too closed to inquire." Ellis took contemporary developments in the American humanities as "warning signs of an unhealthy condition that has arisen because a great principle -- that of knowledge for its own sake -- has been compromised." There will be those who argue that that principle was illusory in the first place, or perhaps that I should not have drawn on Ellis' book, but rather to so-and-so's -- both of which would confirm Ellis' point: "Intellectual curiosity is flexible, moral fervor is not. One seeks answers, the other already knows them" (1997:223). In 1997, when Ellis published his book, Indologists educated in the philological tradition may still have seen little cause for concern because the said condition had not yet affected Indological departments in Europe, although it had evidently taken root in some quarters of U.S. academia as early as 1988: http://www.dandelon.com/servlet/download/attachments/dandelon/ids/DE006C29A9360E68BE2C1C1257A360044D59B.pdf (some of the names listed there may sound familiar) In view of this chronology and of Ellis' book, there can be little doubt that this "corruption of the humanities" (Ellis' title, quoted approvingly here!) has its roots in U.S. academia. Meanwhile, (presumed) social and political agendas are all over the place, in European humanities and elsewhere. In my view, the recent campaign on the INDOLOGY list shows that only too clearly. In the absence of reliable data -- my request to the INDOLOGY committee has so far remained unanswered -- I can only assume that the views expressed by the activists of this campaign do not represent those of the majority of list members, but those of a relatively small but vociferous punditocracy (or commentariat -- whatever seems more politically correct). My sympathy is with all those who have argued against this campaign. I consider it a historic irony when those who have had their share in promoting this development now shed crocodile tears over its consequences -- at least when they affect their nearest and dearest (in the case of Oldenberg, e.g., or an Indian publisher / book seller, no such concerns are raised). Reinhold Gr?nendahl -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dipak.d2004 at gmail.com Fri May 23 11:45:17 2014 From: dipak.d2004 at gmail.com (Dipak Bhattacharya) Date: Fri, 23 May 14 17:15:17 +0530 Subject: [INDOLOGY] In defense of MLBD In-Reply-To: Message-ID: It is not a question of discarding outdated books. Only a few read Oldenberg seriously, just as only a few (in relation to the total readership of autobiographies)read Mein Kampf seriously. It is a question of banning a racialist book. DB On Tue, May 20, 2014 at 11:31 PM, Dominik Wujastyk wrote: > On 20 May 2014 18:18, Dipak Bhattacharya wrote: > ?...? > > >> My question is why should we not first recommend writing off Oldenberg's *Die >> Literatur des alten Indien*, 2nd ed., Stuttgart 1923 where the racist >> ideas of Oldenberg prominently occur, from the lsts of recommended books in >> the Universities? >> > > ?Why not, indeed? I think it would be very good if Indian universities > used more up-to-date text books! I am always saddened when I read the > anti-aryan-invasion people arguing against Max M?ller. It's like Don > Quixote tilting at windmills. Almost nobody outside India has read > anything by Muller for nearly a hundred years (to learn about Indology, > that is). The field of Indology *does* move forward, actually, just like > other fields of intellectual endeavour, and it would be wonderful if > university students in India were encouraged and enabled to read > contemporary literature on the subject of Indian literary studies, rather > than pre-war stuff that's long ago been superseded by more exciting, more > accurate and more comprehensive research. > > So, if you start a petition for replacing Oldenberg in Indian university > curricula with something better, I'll sign :-) > > Dominik > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From adheesh1 at gmail.com Fri May 23 12:48:25 2014 From: adheesh1 at gmail.com (Adheesh Sathaye) Date: Fri, 23 May 14 18:18:25 +0530 Subject: [INDOLOGY] In defense of MLBD In-Reply-To: <044C4CE033BD474EBE2ACACE8E4B1D949C2F205E@UM-excdag-a02.um.gwdg.de> Message-ID: Dear Professor Gr?nendahl, (I have CC?ed the list, as other readers may have had the same questions), As the member of the Indology committee on duty for this week, (and also working with a rather spotty internet connection in Pune at the moment), I would like to clarify a few details, lest there be some misunderstanding: 1) As far as I am able to determine, no formal request has been made by you to the Indology administrative committee, who may be communicated with at the email address: ?indology-owner at list.indology.info?. Rather, you appear to have posted a query onto the list itself. For better results when wishing to communicate with the administrative committee, I would encourage you (and all other users) to write directly to us (at the email address indicated above) rather than make a public post. We are generally able to address queries within a week. 2) The fact is that this active thread has unfortunately coincided with some type of bandwidth problem on the Indology server. This has resulted in my being unable to access the administrative interface, through which I could have easily answered your query. I kindly ask for your patience. 3) The bandwidth issue has also rendered inoperative the individual user interfaces, and also I believe has resulted in a number of messages from valid users being bounced. I am hoping the problem will get rectified in due course. With all best wishes, Adheesh ---- Adheesh Sathaye Department of Asian Studies University of British Columbia On May 23, 2014, at 15.59, Gruenendahl, Reinhold wrote: > In view of this chronology and of Ellis' book, there can be little doubt that this "corruption of the humanities" (Ellis' title, quoted approvingly here!) has its roots in U.S. academia. Meanwhile, (presumed) social and political agendas are all over the place, in European humanities and elsewhere. In my view, the recent campaign on the INDOLOGY list shows that only too clearly. In the absence of reliable data -- my request to the INDOLOGY committee has so far remained unanswered -- I can only assume that the views expressed by the activists of this campaign do not represent those of the majority of list members, but those of a relatively small but vociferous punditocracy (or commentariat -- whatever seems more politically correct). From gruenen at sub.uni-goettingen.de Fri May 23 15:43:59 2014 From: gruenen at sub.uni-goettingen.de (Gruenendahl, Reinhold) Date: Fri, 23 May 14 15:43:59 +0000 Subject: [INDOLOGY] GRETIL update #432 Message-ID: <044C4CE033BD474EBE2ACACE8E4B1D949C2F30FB@UM-excdag-a02.um.gwdg.de> GRETIL is pleased to be able to report the following addition(s) to its collection: Narasimha-Purana (plain text, text with pada markers, pada index): http://gretil.sub.uni-goettingen.de/gretil.htm#NarsiP __________________________________________________________________________ "GRETIL is intended as a cumulative register of the numerous download sites for electronic texts in Indian languages." (from the 2001 "mission statement") GRETIL - Goettingen Register of Electronic Texts in Indian Languages: http://gretil.sub.uni-goettingen.de/gretil.htm From wujastyk at gmail.com Fri May 23 18:21:10 2014 From: wujastyk at gmail.com (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Fri, 23 May 14 20:21:10 +0200 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Fwd: sad day In-Reply-To: Message-ID: ?Dear Paolo,? Your derogatory remark about North Americans was made publicly on this list. When I read it, I hoped you were joking ?, since you did have a smiley ? ( ?but ? email is a poor medium for ironic jokes). If you seriously meant it as an ethnographical analysis of North Americans, but on second thoughts wish retract it, please do so here too. If you wish to pursue a defence of the assertion, then I think it must be said to fall outside the scope of INDOLOGY. I think we can all agree that we deplore the use of financial metaphors for non-financial matters, what anthropologists like Marylin Strathern have called the "spread of the audit culture." But my experience of European institutions shows me that this practice is just as pervasive in Europe as anywhere else. In Britain, the decisive turn to viewing every human act as a form of business transaction was achieved by the Thatcher government, and has been in force ever since. ? Maybe it's not so in Italy. :-)? ?Best, Dominik ? ?Magnone: it is true that North Americans have a flair for boiling everything down to > money :-) (I beg your forgiveness for my impertinence).? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From paolo.magnone at unicatt.it Fri May 23 20:59:47 2014 From: paolo.magnone at unicatt.it (Paolo Magnone) Date: Fri, 23 May 14 22:59:47 +0200 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Fwd: sad day In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <537FB6C3.7030409@unicatt.it> Dear Dominik, Please, look twice? joke-warning (the smiley) and advance apology were already there in my original post as quoted by you below. And ? ap?rva indeed is this court of (summary) justice that you are setting up for me: I am left with the choice of pleading guilty and retracting ? or? the alternative does not exist, because if I wanted to defend my case, that would ?fall outside the scope of Indology?! But anyway, I had already said that [because] The appropriateness or otherwise of my rethorical devices [emphasis added] is entirely beyond the original point, and hardly a subject of indological interest. [and because] Nitpicking over details is also in itself a well-known rhetorical device to deflect attention from the main argument. I would respond off-list to those who felt offended, or would care to take up the matter with me (which I have already done). Since, as you say, ?email is a poor medium for ironic jokes?, then let the dry statement above speak my mind, to which I needn?t add anything further in this place. Much more importantly, coming to the rest of your post, to me what was deplorable in the message which elicited my reaction is not what you rather mildly put as ?the use of financial metaphors for non-financial matters? (perhaps a case of British understatement? ;-) see how obdurate I am!) pertaining to institutions but 1) the ludicrous consumerist reductionism perpetrated on (what at least some of us regard as) lofty ideals such as democracy and freedom: This, Prof Magnone, is what democracy is all about, this is what freedom is all about. I have a right to buy from whom I wish; anyone has a right to (try to) sell to whomever they wish, but I can tell them: I won't buy from you, so if it is important to you to sell to *me* [?] then you might want to rethink what you do. and 2) the more disquieting fact that it was no metaphor at all, but a very serious threat, materialized in that ill-advised (my opinion, of course) petition of yours : ?we Indologists will not buy your books or your services unless you submit to our ?friendly advice?? ? or, in prof. Silk?s own words, There is therefore absolutely nothing, logically or legally, of suppression in writing to MLBD and saying: if you sell this, I won't allow you to sell my book, I won't buy books from you, I will discourage others from buying books from you. This, Prof Magnone, is what democracy is all about? Patronizing tone aside, allow me to say that *the purport* of that proposition ? i. e. that forms of blackmail be the essence of democracy and freedom ? causes me far greater outrage than would a jocular remark on the character of Italians. Apparently, though, some do not feel in the same way (but luckily others do, who expressed their support off-list) since they were quick to censure my presumed intemperance, but not to disown that proposition ? as one might say, looking at the speck and failing to see the log? With best wishes, Paolo Magnone Sanskrit Language and Literature Catholic University of the Sacred Heart - Milan Study of Religions III (Hinduism) & IV (Buddhism) Theological Faculty of Northern Italy - Milan On 23/05/2014 20:21, Dominik Wujastyk wrote: ?Dear Paolo,? Your derogatory remark about North Americans was made publicly on this list. When I read it, I hoped you were joking ?, since you did have a smiley ? ( ?but ? email is a poor medium for ironic jokes). If you seriously meant it as an ethnographical analysis of North Americans, but on second thoughts wish retract it, please do so here too. If you wish to pursue a defence of the assertion, then I think it must be said to fall outside the scope of INDOLOGY. I think we can all agree that we deplore the use of financial metaphors for non-financial matters, what anthropologists like Marylin Strathern have called the "spread of the audit culture." But my experience of European institutions shows me that this practice is just as pervasive in Europe as anywhere else. In Britain, the decisive turn to viewing every human act as a form of business transaction was achieved by the Thatcher government, and has been in force ever since. ? Maybe it's not so in Italy. :-)? ?Best, Dominik ? ?Magnone: it is true that North Americans have a flair for boiling everything down to money :-) (I beg your forgiveness for my impertinence).? _______________________________________________ INDOLOGY mailing list INDOLOGY at list.indology.info http://listinfo.indology.info ________________________________ Messaggio istituzionale Ricerca, Formazione, Assistenza, Cooperazione e Sviluppo: 5 ragioni per metterci la firma. Grazie a un gesto semplice puoi sostenere le iniziative dell?Ateneo dei cattolici italiani e del Policlinico ?A. Gemelli?. Sottoscrivi il 5 per mille a favore dell'Universit? Cattolica. Info: www.unicatt.it/5permille ________________________________ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From arlogriffiths at hotmail.com Sat May 24 04:42:39 2014 From: arlogriffiths at hotmail.com (Arlo Griffiths) Date: Sat, 24 May 14 04:42:39 +0000 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Vedas: Divisions, Dating and Language In-Reply-To: <537ED134.4050507@yorku.ca> Message-ID: On textual divisions, might I also recommend the following? L. Renou, "Les divisions dans les textes sanskrits", IIJ 1 (1957) 1-32 (= Choix d??tudes indiennes. R?unies par N. Balbir et G.-J. Pinault. Paris 1997, II/487-518). And perhaps my own article, "The Textual Divisions of the Paippal?da Sa?hit?", WZKS 47 (2003), 5-35. Best wishes, Arlo Griffiths EFEO/Jakarta Date: Fri, 23 May 2014 00:40:20 -0400 From: shyamr at yorku.ca To: indology at list.indology.info Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] Vedas: Divisions, Dating and Language Dear List Members I am grateful for all the insightful comments that members generously shared in response to my query. Here are the references: Mimamsa, 2.1 (adhikaranas 7-8 and 10-12) in ?abara and Kum?rila James A. Santucci, "An Outline of Vedic Literature." (AAR) Minnesota: Scholar's Press. Frits Staal's *Discovering the Vedas* Penguin, 2008. Witzel and by Witzel and Jamieson, at http://indology.info/papers/ Michael Witzel, "Tracing the Vedic Dialects" in Colette Caillat (ed.), Dialectes dans les litt?ratures indo-aryennes. Paris: Institut de Civilisation Indienne, 1989: 97-264 Many thanks! Shyam On 12/05/2014 11:22 PM, Shyam Ranganathan wrote: Dear Indology List members, I appreciate that this may seem a basic question. It's so basic, I don't have any fantastic references! I was hoping for references to authoritative accounts of the division of the Vedas into versions (Rg, Yajur etc.,), parts (Mantra, Brahmana etc.) and dates in English. I was also interested in linguistic accounts of the Vedas that might distinguish the earlier and later Vedas on linguistic lines. All help is most appreciated! Gratefully yours, Shyam -- Shyam Ranganathan, MA, MA, PhD Department of Philosophy Department of Social Science, South Asian Studies York University, Toronto _______________________________________________ INDOLOGY mailing list INDOLOGY at list.indology.info http://listinfo.indology.info -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From zydenbos at uni-muenchen.de Sat May 24 10:59:17 2014 From: zydenbos at uni-muenchen.de (Robert Zydenbos) Date: Sat, 24 May 14 12:59:17 +0200 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Fwd: sad day In-Reply-To: <537FB6C3.7030409@unicatt.it> Message-ID: <53807B85.40809@uni-muenchen.de> For the record: I am from Canada, and I know just what Paolo meant. His remark does not apply to me. Nor I do not feel any urge to be indignant on behalf of such unnamed persons to whom it does apply. There is a saying: "Let him, whomever the shoes fits, put it on." This shoe doesn't fit me, so I am not putting it on. Robert P.S. Let's compare departments of Indian studies in Europe and North American on the basis of their dependence on outside money (from NRIs, other private sources) vs. government funding. That would be Indologically more interesting and could say something about relative national respect for Indian culture. My bet is that Europe comes out on top (with Germany as #1). :-) Paolo Magnone wrote: > Dear Dominik, > > Please, look twice? joke-warning (the smiley) /and /advance apology were > already there in my original post as quoted by you below. [...] From dipak.d2004 at gmail.com Sun May 25 15:00:09 2014 From: dipak.d2004 at gmail.com (Dipak Bhattacharya) Date: Sun, 25 May 14 20:30:09 +0530 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Sukumari Bhattacharji Message-ID: 25 5 14 Dear Friends, I sadly announce the death of Professor Sukumari Bhattacharji on 24 May afternoon at the age of 93 at her residence in Kolkata. One of the brightest students of the Calcutta University she worked for her doctorate at Cambridge and was awarded the degree. The work appeared as *The Indian theogony *in 1970. Coming from a Protestant Christain family of Central Bengal Sukumari could never adjust herself to situations that she regarded as not in conformity with her principles. She faced many adverse situations but never succumbed to circumstances. She took her MA in English language and literature and married a Hindu Brahmin, Dr.Amal Bhattacharya who taught at the Presidency College. Sukumari again got herself admitted to the Sanskrit MA course at the University of Calcutta. A y?j?ika Vedic scholar is said to have objected to her - a woman and Christaian - attending Veda classes. This was ridiculed down by the authorities that saved her from humiliation. She attended the classes and was declared first at the final examination. She became a Marxist by principle but avoided active politics. Till the early sixties she taught in one of the most prestigious Women's College in Calcutta, namely the Bethune College. She was admired for her scholarship and spirited non-conformism by many contemporary philologists of Calcutta that included S.K.Chatterji, Durgamohan Bhattacharyya and Ramaranjan Mukherjee. I later came to know that Durgamohan and Ramaranjan had been instrumental in getting her selected as Reader in Sanskrit (Associate Professor) at the Jadavpur University. Later she became Professor. When a hot debate was raging over her depiction of women's life in ancient India, she asked in a letter to a newspaper why she would not have the choice to declare that she did not believe in any religion. The rightists in Calcutta used abusive language against her and falsely accused her of plagiarism on Zimmer. Others showed that it was not so. A famous historian is said to have remarked that she got a prestigious prize only because of her remark that only prostitutes had been free women in ancient India Her siding with the leftists too did not last. From 2005 to the end Sukumari was shunned by all -- the right and the left. The sole grace was that publishers did not shun her. Sukumari was not sorry. Her non-conformist character placed Sukumari in opposition to a number of Indologists including Professor Gonda. Perhaps Burrow had remained fond of her. Dipak Bhattacharya -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From laurie.patton at duke.edu Sun May 25 16:42:59 2014 From: laurie.patton at duke.edu (Prof Laurie Patton, Ph.D.) Date: Sun, 25 May 14 16:42:59 +0000 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Sukumari Bhattacharji In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Friends, As part of a larger project on women and Sanskrit in contemporary India I spent three days with Sukumari-ji in the mid 2000's. Her stories are indeed compelling-- filled with both light and pathos. Her life would be a small study in its own right. This is a passing of a truly independent voice. Laurie Patton Durden Professor of Indian Religions Duke University On May 25, 2014, at 17:00, "Dipak Bhattacharya" > wrote: > 25 5 14 Dear Friends, I sadly announce the death of Professor Sukumari Bhattacharji on 24 May afternoon at the age of 93 at her residence in Kolkata. One of the brightest students of the Calcutta University she worked for her doctorate at Cambridge and was awarded the degree. The work appeared as The Indian theogony in 1970. Coming from a Protestant Christain family of Central Bengal Sukumari could never adjust herself to situations that she regarded as not in conformity with her principles. She faced many adverse situations but never succumbed to circumstances. She took her MA in English language and literature and married a Hindu Brahmin, Dr.Amal Bhattacharya who taught at the Presidency College. Sukumari again got herself admitted to the Sanskrit MA course at the University of Calcutta. A y?j?ika Vedic scholar is said to have objected to her - a woman and Christaian - attending Veda classes. This was ridiculed down by the authorities that saved her from humiliation. She attended the classes and was declared first at the final examination. She became a Marxist by principle but avoided active politics. Till the early sixties she taught in one of the most prestigious Women's College in Calcutta, namely the Bethune College. She was admired for her scholarship and spirited non-conformism by many contemporary philologists of Calcutta that included S.K.Chatterji, Durgamohan Bhattacharyya and Ramaranjan Mukherjee. I later came to know that Durgamohan and Ramaranjan had been instrumental in getting her selected as Reader in Sanskrit (Associate Professor) at the Jadavpur University. Later she became Professor. When a hot debate was raging over her depiction of women's life in ancient India, she asked in a letter to a newspaper why she would not have the choice to declare that she did not believe in any religion. The rightists in Calcutta used abusive language against her and falsely accused her of plagiarism on Zimmer. Others showed that it was not so. A famous historian is said to have remarked that she got a prestigious prize only because of her remark that only prostitutes had been free women in ancient India Her siding with the leftists too did not last. From 2005 to the end Sukumari was shunned by all -- the right and the left. The sole grace was that publishers did not shun her. Sukumari was not sorry. Her non-conformist character placed Sukumari in opposition to a number of Indologists including Professor Gonda. Perhaps Burrow had remained fond of her. Dipak Bhattacharya _______________________________________________ INDOLOGY mailing list INDOLOGY at list.indology.info http://listinfo.indology.info -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rrocher at sas.upenn.edu Sun May 25 19:07:40 2014 From: rrocher at sas.upenn.edu (Rosane Rocher) Date: Sun, 25 May 14 15:07:40 -0400 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Sukumari Bhattacharji In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <53823F7C.4070304@sas.upenn.edu> Dear Colleague, Thank you for sharing this sad news and for your sketch of the life of Sukumari Bhattacharji. She reached out to us when we were on a nine-month research stay in Calcutta in 1969--1970 and she was full of the impending publication of her /Indian Theogony/. We visited with her on subsequent stays in Kolkata, one of which times caused us to ride the Metro for the first time. In addition to being a dedicated scholar, she was a strong woman and a lady. Rosane and Ludo Rocher On 5/25/14 11:00 AM, Dipak Bhattacharya wrote: > > > > > 25 5 14 > > Dear Friends, > > I sadly announce the death of Professor Sukumari Bhattacharji on 24 > May afternoon at the age of 93 at her residence in Kolkata. One of the > brightest students of the Calcutta University she worked for her > doctorate at Cambridge and was awarded the degree. The work appeared > as /The Indian theogony /in 1970. Coming from a Protestant Christain > family of Central Bengal Sukumari could never adjust herself to > situations that she regarded as not in conformity with her principles. > She faced many adverse situations but never succumbed to > circumstances. She took her MA in English language and literature and > married a Hindu Brahmin, Dr.Amal Bhattacharya who taught at the > Presidency College. Sukumari again got herself admitted to the > Sanskrit MA course at the University of Calcutta. A ya-j?ika Vedic > scholar is said to have objected to her - a woman and Christaian - > attending Veda classes. This was ridiculed down by the authorities > that saved her from humiliation. She attended the classes and was > declared first at the final examination. She became a Marxist by > principle but avoided active politics. Till the early sixties she > taught in one of the most prestigious Women's College in Calcutta, > namely the Bethune College. She was admired for her scholarship and > spirited non-conformism by many contemporary philologists of Calcutta > that included S.K.Chatterji, Durgamohan Bhattacharyya and Ramaranjan > Mukherjee. I later came to know that Durgamohan and Ramaranjan had > been instrumental in getting her selected as Reader in Sanskrit > (Associate Professor) at the Jadavpur University. Later she became > Professor. > > When a hot debate was raging over her depiction of women's life in > ancient India, she asked in a letter to a newspaper why she would not > have the choice to declare that she did not believe in any religion. > The rightists in Calcutta used abusive language against her and > falsely accused her of plagiarism on Zimmer. Others showed that it was > not so. A famous historian is said to have remarked that she got a > prestigious prize only because of her remark that only prostitutes had > been free women in ancient India > > Her siding with the leftists too did not last. From 2005 to the end > Sukumari was shunned by all -- the right and the left. The sole grace > was that publishers did not shun her. Sukumari was not sorry. > > Her non-conformist character placed Sukumari in opposition to a number > of Indologists including Professor Gonda. Perhaps Burrow had remained > fond of her. > > Dipak Bhattacharya > > > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > http://listinfo.indology.info -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rajanawab at comcast.net Mon May 26 16:49:37 2014 From: rajanawab at comcast.net (rajanawab at comcast.net) Date: Mon, 26 May 14 16:49:37 +0000 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Talk at Nehru Centre of Indian High Commission in London on African elites in India In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <1671671954.27812.1401122977717.JavaMail.root@sz0044a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net> NEHRU CENTRE Indian High Commission TALK: East African rulers, generals and elites in India DATE: June 3 TIME: 6:30 PM Kenneth X. Robbins, a psychiatrist, is a collector and independent scholar with an interest in Maharajas, Nawabs, Sultans, and other Indian rulers as well as minority groups in South Asia. He has curated numerous exhibitions, organized scholarly conferences, and published many articles on Indian history, paintings, photographs, art, religion, medicine, numismatics, and philately. He is editing a study of the hundreds of princely states in what is now Gujarat. His book African Elites in India is the basis for a New York Public Library Schomburg Center for Black Culture traveling exhibition, which is currently at the Museum for African American History in Boston. It will open at the Indira Gandhi National Centre for the Arts in New Delhi in October. He hopes to find other venues in Africa and elsewhere. He has been working on an exhibition and eight volumes dealing with Jews in India. The first volume Western Jews in India has been published and the next book Jews and the Indian National Art Project will be launched this fall. Kenneth Robbins has gathered together everything from many old miniature paintings and photographs to numismatic and philatelic materials to document the unparalleled story of Africans, who attained the pinnacle of political and military authority on another continent. East Africans have distinguished themselves in India as rulers, military commanders, prime ministers, queens, courtiers, and architectural patrons in India. The Habshi Sultans of Bengal and the Nawabs of Janjira and Sachin were all Africans. Malik Ambar, the great strongman of Ahmednagar, and the many African prime ministers of Bijapur left their mark. The Sidi Sayyid Mosque has become the symbol of Ahmedabad. African patronage produced splendid forts, mosques, and tombs. NEHRU CENTRE Indian High Commission 8 South Audley Street London W1K 1HF Telephone and Fax T: (020) 7 491 3567 T: (020) 7 493 2019 F: (020) 7 409 3360 Directions Tube The nearest tube stations are: (1) Green Park - Jubilee, Victoria, Piccadilly lines. (2) Hyde Park Corner ? Piccadilly line only and Bond Street ? Central & Jubilee lines. Bus There are frequent buses running from Victoria Station. You require buses headed towards Marble Arch (73, 436) and you should get off opposite the Hilton Hotel, cross over the main road and head towards South Audley Street. Please consult the map for further information. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From kellner at asia-europe.uni-heidelberg.de Mon May 26 17:15:27 2014 From: kellner at asia-europe.uni-heidelberg.de (Birgit Kellner) Date: Mon, 26 May 14 19:15:27 +0200 Subject: [INDOLOGY] FYI: Ho Family Foundation Program in Buddhist Studies: new round of grants Message-ID: <538376AF.4090005@asia-europe.uni-heidelberg.de> Dear colleagues, FYI: the Robert H. N. Ho Family Foundation initiated a program - channeled through ACLS - in Buddhist Studies last year, supporting dissertation fellowships, postdoctoral fellowships, collaborative research grants and distinguished visiting professorships. The list of the first 23 grant recipients can be found at http://www.rhfamilyfoundation.org/#!/press/74. The second round of grants was just announced: http://www.acls.org/programs/buddhist-studies/; the deadline for applications is 8 October 2014. Note that these are global competitions. There are no restrictions as to the location of work proposed or the citizenship of applicants. With best regards, Birgit Kellner -- ---------- Prof. Dr. Birgit Kellner Chair of Buddhist Studies Cluster of Excellence "Asia and Europe in a Global Context - The Dynamics of Transculturality" University of Heidelberg Karl Jaspers Centre Vo?stra?e 2, Building 4400 D-69115 Heidelberg Phone: +49(0)6221 - 54 4301 (Office Ina Chebbi: 4363) Fax: +49(0)6221 - 54 4012 From gthomgt at gmail.com Mon May 26 19:25:02 2014 From: gthomgt at gmail.com (George Thompson) Date: Mon, 26 May 14 15:25:02 -0400 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Sukumari Bhattacharji In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Dear List, I meant to send this message to the entire list yesterday. Instead, I sent it to one list member by mistake. >>>>> Dear friends, I did not know Prof. Bhattacharji personally, but I very much admired her work. I mourn with you who were her friends and colleagues. George On Sun, May 25, 2014 at 10:16 PM, George Thompson wrote: > Dear friends, > > I did not know Prof. Bhattacharji personally, but I very much admired her > work. I mourn with you who were her friends and colleagues. > > George Thompson > > > On Sun, May 25, 2014 at 3:07 PM, Rosane Rocher wrote: > >> Dear Colleague, >> >> Thank you for sharing this sad news and for your sketch of the life of >> Sukumari Bhattacharji. She reached out to us when we were on a nine-month >> research stay in Calcutta in 1969?1970 and she was full of the impending >> publication of her *Indian Theogony*. We visited with her on subsequent >> stays in Kolkata, one of which times caused us to ride the Metro for the >> first time. In addition to being a dedicated scholar, she was a strong >> woman and a lady. >> >> Rosane and Ludo Rocher >> >> On 5/25/14 11:00 AM, Dipak Bhattacharya wrote: >> >> >> >> 25 5 14 >> >> Dear Friends, >> >> I sadly announce the death of Professor Sukumari Bhattacharji on 24 May >> afternoon at the age of 93 at her residence in Kolkata. One of the >> brightest students of the Calcutta University she worked for her doctorate >> at Cambridge and was awarded the degree. The work appeared as *The >> Indian theogony *in 1970. Coming from a Protestant Christain family of >> Central Bengal Sukumari could never adjust herself to situations that she >> regarded as not in conformity with her principles. She faced many adverse >> situations but never succumbed to circumstances. She took her MA in English >> language and literature and married a Hindu Brahmin, Dr.Amal Bhattacharya >> who taught at the Presidency College. Sukumari again got herself admitted >> to the Sanskrit MA course at the University of Calcutta. A y?j?ika Vedic >> scholar is said to have objected to her - a woman and Christaian - >> attending Veda classes. This was ridiculed down by the authorities that >> saved her from humiliation. She attended the classes and was declared first >> at the final examination. She became a Marxist by principle but avoided >> active politics. Till the early sixties she taught in one of the most >> prestigious Women's College in Calcutta, namely the Bethune College. She >> was admired for her scholarship and spirited non-conformism by many >> contemporary philologists of Calcutta that included S.K.Chatterji, >> Durgamohan Bhattacharyya and Ramaranjan Mukherjee. I later came to know >> that Durgamohan and Ramaranjan had been instrumental in getting her >> selected as Reader in Sanskrit (Associate Professor) at the Jadavpur >> University. Later she became Professor. >> >> When a hot debate was raging over her depiction of women's life in >> ancient India, she asked in a letter to a newspaper why she would not have >> the choice to declare that she did not believe in any religion. The >> rightists in Calcutta used abusive language against her and falsely accused >> her of plagiarism on Zimmer. Others showed that it was not so. A famous >> historian is said to have remarked that she got a prestigious prize only >> because of her remark that only prostitutes had been free women in ancient >> India >> >> Her siding with the leftists too did not last. From 2005 to the end >> Sukumari was shunned by all -- the right and the left. The sole grace was >> that publishers did not shun her. Sukumari was not sorry. >> >> Her non-conformist character placed Sukumari in opposition to a number of >> Indologists including Professor Gonda. Perhaps Burrow had remained fond of >> her. >> >> Dipak Bhattacharya >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> INDOLOGY mailing listINDOLOGY at list.indology.infohttp://listinfo.indology.info >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> INDOLOGY mailing list >> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info >> http://listinfo.indology.info >> > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From gthomgt at gmail.com Mon May 26 19:52:27 2014 From: gthomgt at gmail.com (George Thompson) Date: Mon, 26 May 14 15:52:27 -0400 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Sukumari Bhattacharji In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Dear List, My attempt to cut and paste the message failed [sorry: I am dealing with a new laptop computer which doesn't do what I want it to do]. The message was: Dear friends, I did not know Prof. Bhattacharji personally, but I very much admired her work. I mourn with you who were her friends and colleagues Best wishes, George On Mon, May 26, 2014 at 3:25 PM, George Thompson wrote: > Dear List, > > I meant to send this message to the entire list yesterday. Instead, I > sent it to one list member by mistake. > > >>>>> > > Dear friends, > > I did not know Prof. Bhattacharji personally, but I very much admired her > work. I mourn with you who were her friends and colleagues. > > George > > > > On Sun, May 25, 2014 at 10:16 PM, George Thompson wrote: > >> Dear friends, >> >> I did not know Prof. Bhattacharji personally, but I very much admired her >> work. I mourn with you who were her friends and colleagues. >> >> George Thompson >> >> >> On Sun, May 25, 2014 at 3:07 PM, Rosane Rocher wrote: >> >>> Dear Colleague, >>> >>> Thank you for sharing this sad news and for your sketch of the life of >>> Sukumari Bhattacharji. She reached out to us when we were on a nine-month >>> research stay in Calcutta in 1969?1970 and she was full of the impending >>> publication of her *Indian Theogony*. We visited with her on >>> subsequent stays in Kolkata, one of which times caused us to ride the Metro >>> for the first time. In addition to being a dedicated scholar, she was a >>> strong woman and a lady. >>> >>> Rosane and Ludo Rocher >>> >>> On 5/25/14 11:00 AM, Dipak Bhattacharya wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>> 25 5 14 >>> >>> Dear Friends, >>> >>> I sadly announce the death of Professor Sukumari Bhattacharji on 24 May >>> afternoon at the age of 93 at her residence in Kolkata. One of the >>> brightest students of the Calcutta University she worked for her doctorate >>> at Cambridge and was awarded the degree. The work appeared as *The >>> Indian theogony *in 1970. Coming from a Protestant Christain family of >>> Central Bengal Sukumari could never adjust herself to situations that she >>> regarded as not in conformity with her principles. She faced many adverse >>> situations but never succumbed to circumstances. She took her MA in English >>> language and literature and married a Hindu Brahmin, Dr.Amal Bhattacharya >>> who taught at the Presidency College. Sukumari again got herself admitted >>> to the Sanskrit MA course at the University of Calcutta. A y?j?ika Vedic >>> scholar is said to have objected to her - a woman and Christaian - >>> attending Veda classes. This was ridiculed down by the authorities that >>> saved her from humiliation. She attended the classes and was declared first >>> at the final examination. She became a Marxist by principle but avoided >>> active politics. Till the early sixties she taught in one of the most >>> prestigious Women's College in Calcutta, namely the Bethune College. She >>> was admired for her scholarship and spirited non-conformism by many >>> contemporary philologists of Calcutta that included S.K.Chatterji, >>> Durgamohan Bhattacharyya and Ramaranjan Mukherjee. I later came to know >>> that Durgamohan and Ramaranjan had been instrumental in getting her >>> selected as Reader in Sanskrit (Associate Professor) at the Jadavpur >>> University. Later she became Professor. >>> >>> When a hot debate was raging over her depiction of women's life in >>> ancient India, she asked in a letter to a newspaper why she would not have >>> the choice to declare that she did not believe in any religion. The >>> rightists in Calcutta used abusive language against her and falsely accused >>> her of plagiarism on Zimmer. Others showed that it was not so. A famous >>> historian is said to have remarked that she got a prestigious prize only >>> because of her remark that only prostitutes had been free women in ancient >>> India >>> >>> Her siding with the leftists too did not last. From 2005 to the end >>> Sukumari was shunned by all -- the right and the left. The sole grace was >>> that publishers did not shun her. Sukumari was not sorry. >>> >>> Her non-conformist character placed Sukumari in opposition to a number >>> of Indologists including Professor Gonda. Perhaps Burrow had remained fond >>> of her. >>> >>> Dipak Bhattacharya >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> INDOLOGY mailing listINDOLOGY at list.indology.infohttp://listinfo.indology.info >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> INDOLOGY mailing list >>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info >>> http://listinfo.indology.info >>> >> >> > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jpo at uts.cc.utexas.edu Tue May 27 13:21:59 2014 From: jpo at uts.cc.utexas.edu (Patrick Olivelle) Date: Tue, 27 May 14 08:21:59 -0500 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Article Message-ID: <001A1B33-6ADF-4F07-9C29-43BB23B804E2@uts.cc.utexas.edu> Here is a fine article written by Pratap Bhanu Mehta, whom many of you may know. A plea for freedom from stupid and invasive laws in India: http://indianexpress.com/article/opinion/columns/minimum-arbitrariness/ Patrick From gruenen at sub.uni-goettingen.de Wed May 28 10:07:16 2014 From: gruenen at sub.uni-goettingen.de (Gruenendahl, Reinhold) Date: Wed, 28 May 14 10:07:16 +0000 Subject: [INDOLOGY] GRETIL updates #431 and #432 temporarily unavailable Message-ID: <044C4CE033BD474EBE2ACACE8E4B1D949C2F7509@UM-excdag-a02.um.gwdg.de> Due to an incomplete data migration, GRETIL updates #431 and #432 will not be available for a few days. Apologies for any inconvenience this may cause. From ersand at hum.ku.dk Wed May 28 15:53:09 2014 From: ersand at hum.ku.dk (Erik Sand) Date: Wed, 28 May 14 15:53:09 +0000 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Request Message-ID: Dear list-members, Can any of you, perhaps, help me with a scan of J. Gerson da Cunha?s version of the Sahy?drikha??a of the Skandapurana, Bombay 1877? Regards Erik Reenberg Sand Associate professor Department of Cross-cultural and Regional Studies University of Copenhagen -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dipak.d2004 at gmail.com Wed May 28 16:00:09 2014 From: dipak.d2004 at gmail.com (Dipak Bhattacharya) Date: Wed, 28 May 14 21:30:09 +0530 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Request In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I too tried to have a copy without success. May I expect one for me,particularly the part with Para;suraama's exploits Best DB On Wed, May 28, 2014 at 9:23 PM, Erik Sand wrote: > Dear list-members, > > > > Can any of you, perhaps, help me with a scan of J. Gerson da Cunha?s > version of the Sahy?drikha??a of the Skandapurana, Bombay 1877? > > > > Regards > > > > Erik Reenberg Sand > > > > Associate professor > > Department of Cross-cultural and Regional Studies > > University of Copenhagen > > > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > http://listinfo.indology.info > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mmdesh at umich.edu Wed May 28 16:26:11 2014 From: mmdesh at umich.edu (Madhav Deshpande) Date: Wed, 28 May 14 12:26:11 -0400 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Request In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hello Erik and Dipak, I have a scanned pdf of this book. Since it is 37mb, I cannot send it as an email attachment. Will send it to the two of you using WeTransfer.com. Let me know when you receive it. Best, Madhav Deshpande On Wed, May 28, 2014 at 12:00 PM, Dipak Bhattacharya wrote: > I too tried to have a copy without success. May I expect one for > me,particularly the part with Para;suraama's exploits > Best > DB > > > On Wed, May 28, 2014 at 9:23 PM, Erik Sand wrote: > >> Dear list-members, >> >> >> >> Can any of you, perhaps, help me with a scan of J. Gerson da Cunha?s >> version of the Sahy?drikha??a of the Skandapurana, Bombay 1877? >> >> >> >> Regards >> >> >> >> Erik Reenberg Sand >> >> >> >> Associate professor >> >> Department of Cross-cultural and Regional Studies >> >> University of Copenhagen >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> INDOLOGY mailing list >> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info >> http://listinfo.indology.info >> > > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > http://listinfo.indology.info > -- Madhav M. Deshpande Professor of Sanskrit and Linguistics Department of Asian Languages and Cultures 202 South Thayer Street, Suite 6111 The University of Michigan Ann Arbor, MI 48104-1608, USA -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ersand at hum.ku.dk Wed May 28 17:30:48 2014 From: ersand at hum.ku.dk (Erik Sand) Date: Wed, 28 May 14 17:30:48 +0000 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Request In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Many thanks to Madhav Deshpande for helping me out with my request. Regards Erik Fra: Madhav Deshpande [mailto:mmdesh at umich.edu] Sendt: 28. maj 2014 18:26 Til: Dipak Bhattacharya Cc: Erik Sand; indology at list.indology.info Emne: Re: [INDOLOGY] Request Hello Erik and Dipak, I have a scanned pdf of this book. Since it is 37mb, I cannot send it as an email attachment. Will send it to the two of you using WeTransfer.com. Let me know when you receive it. Best, Madhav Deshpande On Wed, May 28, 2014 at 12:00 PM, Dipak Bhattacharya > wrote: I too tried to have a copy without success. May I expect one for me,particularly the part with Para;suraama's exploits Best DB On Wed, May 28, 2014 at 9:23 PM, Erik Sand > wrote: Dear list-members, Can any of you, perhaps, help me with a scan of J. Gerson da Cunha?s version of the Sahy?drikha??a of the Skandapurana, Bombay 1877? Regards Erik Reenberg Sand Associate professor Department of Cross-cultural and Regional Studies University of Copenhagen _______________________________________________ INDOLOGY mailing list INDOLOGY at list.indology.info http://listinfo.indology.info _______________________________________________ INDOLOGY mailing list INDOLOGY at list.indology.info http://listinfo.indology.info -- Madhav M. Deshpande Professor of Sanskrit and Linguistics Department of Asian Languages and Cultures 202 South Thayer Street, Suite 6111 The University of Michigan Ann Arbor, MI 48104-1608, USA -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mmdesh at umich.edu Wed May 28 17:50:01 2014 From: mmdesh at umich.edu (Madhav Deshpande) Date: Wed, 28 May 14 13:50:01 -0400 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Request In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Here is the download link for Cunha's edition of the Sahy?drikha??a from WeTransfer.com, where I uploaded it earlier today: http://we.tl/gYhNueeEwF Madhav Deshpande On Wed, May 28, 2014 at 11:53 AM, Erik Sand wrote: > Dear list-members, > > > > Can any of you, perhaps, help me with a scan of J. Gerson da Cunha?s > version of the Sahy?drikha??a of the Skandapurana, Bombay 1877? > > > > Regards > > > > Erik Reenberg Sand > > > > Associate professor > > Department of Cross-cultural and Regional Studies > > University of Copenhagen > > > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > http://listinfo.indology.info > -- Madhav M. Deshpande Professor of Sanskrit and Linguistics Department of Asian Languages and Cultures 202 South Thayer Street, Suite 6111 The University of Michigan Ann Arbor, MI 48104-1608, USA -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jacob at fabularasa.dk Thu May 29 10:08:28 2014 From: jacob at fabularasa.dk (jacob at fabularasa.dk) Date: Thu, 29 May 14 12:08:28 +0200 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Jain names and titles Message-ID: Dear list, In reading the colophons of Jain manuscripts, I am often overwhelmed by the plethora of names and titles and what they communicate about the position and ranking of individual monks. I often have to resort to the aid of my Jain friends to clear things up for me, but I wonder if there might be a compendium of Jain names and titles where these things can be looked up. Any references or suggestions would be much appreciated. Kind regards, Jacob From pf8 at soas.ac.uk Thu May 29 10:15:32 2014 From: pf8 at soas.ac.uk (Peter Flugel) Date: Thu, 29 May 14 11:15:32 +0100 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Jain names and titles In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Dear Jacob, It may be published too late for your present purpose, but for names see Klatt''s Jaina Onomasticon: https://www.soas.ac.uk/jainastudies/research/jaina-onomasticon/ yours Peter On 29 May 2014 11:08, wrote: > Dear list, > > In reading the colophons of Jain manuscripts, I am often overwhelmed by > the plethora of names and titles and what they communicate about the > position and ranking of individual monks. I often have to resort to the aid > of my Jain friends to clear things up for me, but I wonder if there might > be a compendium of Jain names and titles where these things can be looked > up. > > Any references or suggestions would be much appreciated. > > Kind regards, > Jacob > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > http://listinfo.indology.info > -- Dr Peter Fl?gel Chair, Centre of Jaina Studies Department of the Study of Religions Faculty of Arts and Humanities School of Oriental and African Studies University of London Thornhaugh Street Russell Square London WC1H OXG Tel.: (+44-20) 7898 4776 E-mail: pf8 at soas.ac.uk http://www.soas.ac.uk/jainastudies -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From wujastyk at gmail.com Thu May 29 15:28:19 2014 From: wujastyk at gmail.com (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Thu, 29 May 14 17:28:19 +0200 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Request In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Thank you, Madhav. I've uploaded the file to the Archive.org, where it will be available to all, forever (perhaps?). - https://archive.org/details/Sahyadri-Khanda The file is currently being processed ("derived") by archive.org, so view the link again after a few hours. Best, Dominik On 28 May 2014 19:50, Madhav Deshpande wrote: > Here is the download link for Cunha's edition of the Sahy?drikha??a from > WeTransfer.com, where I uploaded it earlier today: > > http://we.tl/gYhNueeEwF > > Madhav Deshpande > > > On Wed, May 28, 2014 at 11:53 AM, Erik Sand wrote: > >> Dear list-members, >> >> >> >> Can any of you, perhaps, help me with a scan of J. Gerson da Cunha?s >> version of the Sahy?drikha??a of the Skandapurana, Bombay 1877? >> >> >> >> Regards >> >> >> >> Erik Reenberg Sand >> >> >> >> Associate professor >> >> Department of Cross-cultural and Regional Studies >> >> University of Copenhagen >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> INDOLOGY mailing list >> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info >> http://listinfo.indology.info >> > > > > -- > Madhav M. Deshpande > Professor of Sanskrit and Linguistics > Department of Asian Languages and Cultures > 202 South Thayer Street, Suite 6111 > The University of Michigan > Ann Arbor, MI 48104-1608, USA > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > http://listinfo.indology.info > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From adheesh1 at gmail.com Thu May 29 16:13:43 2014 From: adheesh1 at gmail.com (Adheesh Sathaye) Date: Thu, 29 May 14 21:43:43 +0530 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Number of recipients of INDOLOGY-list emails? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <598B68D8-EA42-4EF6-BC80-F14915B5A860@gmail.com> Dear Simon, I hope you do not mind that I reply to the list: I?m happy to say that the bandwidth issues have been resolved (meaning also that members may access their personal settings, passwords, etc), and as of today, there are 542 members (or at least distinct email addresses) on the Indology mailing list. All best wishes, Adheesh ---- Adheesh Sathaye Department of Asian Studies University of British Columbia On May 29, 2014, at 21.16, Simon Brodbeck wrote: > Dear Adheesh et al., > > I am sure I am not the only one who would be interested to know approximately how many recipients an INDOLOGY email is liable to have. I hope the committee will see fit to announce this number -- if it can be ascertained -- to the list as a whole, as soon as the unfortunate computer problems have been addressed. ... > With thanks to all on the committee, for their continuing service, > > All the best, from Simon Brodbeck. > > > From james.hartzell at gmail.com Fri May 30 12:42:07 2014 From: james.hartzell at gmail.com (James Hartzell) Date: Fri, 30 May 14 14:42:07 +0200 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Dharma-samgraha Message-ID: Dear Colleagues Might someone have available (or point me to) a digital version of the Dharma-samgraha? Cheers James -- James Hartzell, PhD Center for Mind/Brain Sciences (CIMeC) The University of Trento, Italy -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: