From soni at staff.uni-marburg.de Wed Oct 2 07:52:47 2013 From: soni at staff.uni-marburg.de (soni at staff.uni-marburg.de) Date: Wed, 02 Oct 13 09:52:47 +0200 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Vidyud-duutah 7 Message-ID: <20131002095247.Horde.UwLT24dGVtq-ilq5SW-BYA1@home.staff.uni-marburg.de> With thanks to Professor Hari Dutt Sharma and Dr Sthaneshwar Timalsina I am able to send you the next issue of Vi-duu. I hope you will enjoy it again. It was ready on 1st October but am able to send it only now. The members of the IASS have already seen it, so apologies for the duplication. With best wishes, Jay Soni ------------------------------ Jayandra Soni, Ph.Dd. (BHU and McMaster) Secretary General, International Association of Sanskrit Studies http://www.sanskritassociation.org/ Email: jayandra.soni at sanskritassociation.org Cc: soni at staff.uni-marburg.de -- -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Vi-duu07.pdf Type: application/pdf Size: 862829 bytes Desc: not available URL: From andrew.ollett at gmail.com Wed Oct 2 21:16:32 2013 From: andrew.ollett at gmail.com (Andrew Ollett) Date: Wed, 02 Oct 13 23:16:32 +0200 Subject: =?utf-8?Q?[INDOLOGY]_Lac=C3=B4te,_Essai_sur_Gu=E1=B9=87=C4=81=E1=B8=8Dhya?= Message-ID: As much as I've tried to avoid using the list as a document delivery service, I'm hoping that someone could send me a scan of F?lix Lac?te's Essai sur Gu???hya et la B?ihatkath? (Paris 1908), or better yet, put this wonderful and out-of-copyright book on archive.org for others to access. It's not in the usual places (archive.org or DLI). Google books has a scanof the 1923 English translation that is not accessible, and Hathi Trust surprisingly doesn't seem to have it at all. Thanks, Andrew -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ashok.aklujkar at gmail.com Thu Oct 3 03:52:06 2013 From: ashok.aklujkar at gmail.com (Ashok Aklujkar) Date: Wed, 02 Oct 13 20:52:06 -0700 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Pataliputra & Patna Message-ID: I am trying to determine how old the identification of the ancient P?taliputra with modern Patna (or roughly the area of modern Patna ) is. Who proposed it first and in which publication? Even leads based on memory may help. ashok aklujkar From ashok.aklujkar at gmail.com Thu Oct 3 03:52:40 2013 From: ashok.aklujkar at gmail.com (Ashok Aklujkar) Date: Wed, 02 Oct 13 20:52:40 -0700 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Pataliputra & Patna Message-ID: <77A98738-8DB9-4779-9413-D84265B54BDD@gmail.com> I am trying to determine how old the identification of the ancient P?taliputra with modern Patna (or roughly the area of modern Patna ) is. Who proposed it first and in which publication? Even leads based on memory may help. ashok aklujkar From nmcgovern at umail.ucsb.edu Thu Oct 3 06:39:12 2013 From: nmcgovern at umail.ucsb.edu (Nathan M. McGovern) Date: Thu, 03 Oct 13 06:39:12 +0000 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Pataliputra & Patna In-Reply-To: <77A98738-8DB9-4779-9413-D84265B54BDD@gmail.com> Message-ID: <189B06890DE484479C690A7E718857CF2123AB9C@BL2PRD0811MB423.namprd08.prod.outlook.com> According to F. R. Allchin, it was James Rennell: ?The ancient city was first identified with modern Patna by Rennell (1783)...? in Allchin, ed., The Archaeology of Early Historic South Asia, p. 200. The reference is to Rennell?s Memoir of a Map of Hindoostan. Nathan McGovern Sent from Windows Mail From: Ashok Aklujkar Sent: ?Thursday?, ?October? ?3?, ?2013 ?11?:?47? ?AM To: Indology List I am trying to determine how old the identification of the ancient P?taliputra with modern Patna (or roughly the area of modern Patna ) is. Who proposed it first and in which publication? Even leads based on memory may help. ashok aklujkar _______________________________________________ INDOLOGY mailing list INDOLOGY at list.indology.info http://listinfo.indology.info -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From andrew.ollett at gmail.com Thu Oct 3 06:54:44 2013 From: andrew.ollett at gmail.com (Andrew Ollett) Date: Thu, 03 Oct 13 08:54:44 +0200 Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_[INDOLOGY]=09Lac=C3=B4te,_Essai_sur_Gu=E1=B9=87=C4=81=E1=B8=8Dhya?= In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I am extremely grateful to Madhav Deshpande, Daniel Stender, Janet Um, and Jacob Schmidt-Madsen for their replies. I've now uploaded the text to archive.org: https://archive.org/details/Lacote1908 On Wed, Oct 2, 2013 at 11:16 PM, Andrew Ollett wrote: > As much as I've tried to avoid using the list as a document delivery > service, I'm hoping that someone could send me a scan of F?lix Lac?te's > Essai sur Gu???hya et la B?ihatkath? (Paris 1908), or better yet, put this > wonderful and out-of-copyright book on archive.org for others to access. > It's not in the usual places (archive.org or DLI). Google books has a scanof the 1923 English translation that is not accessible, and Hathi Trust > surprisingly doesn't seem to have it at all. Thanks, > > Andrew > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From wujastyk at gmail.com Thu Oct 3 07:55:40 2013 From: wujastyk at gmail.com (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Thu, 03 Oct 13 09:55:40 +0200 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Fwd: Job Announcement in Tibetan Buddhism In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Forwarded message: ------------------------------ *Graduate Institute of Religious Studies, National Chengchi University* Full-Time Faculty Position The Graduate Institute of Religious Studies at National Cengchi University, Taipei, Taiwan, cordially invites applications for an open-rank full-time position in religious studies. The appointment will be effective *February 1, 2014*. *Qualifications:* Ph.D. in religious studies or related fields. Nationality open. Priority will be given to candidates who already have experience in teaching and administration. *Specialization:* Buddhism (preferrably Tibetan Buddhism) Priority will be given to candidates who can publish in non-Chinese languages. *Deadline: All application materials should be received no later than October 28, 2013.* *Application materials:* (1) Photocopy of Ph.D. diploma or certifying document. (2) Four printed copies of Ph.D dissertation and major publications within five years. (3) Transcript of MA and Ph.D. program. (4) Teacher's Certificate issued by the Ministry of Education of Taiwan government, if applicable. (5) Curriculum vitae. (6) List of publications. (7) Sample syllabi for four courses that one intends to offer. (8) Abstracts in English or Chinese for major publications. (9) At least two letters of recommendation for those who apply for assistant professorship. Mail all materials to: Ms. Rongping Lin, Graduate Institute of Religious Studies, National Chengchi University No. 64, Sec. 2, Zhinan Rd., Taipei, Taiwan, 116. Please print "Job Application" on the envelope. Tel: 886-2-29387730; Fax: 886-2-29387731 *Website**?**http://www.religion.nccu.edu.tw* *E-mail**?* *religion at nccu.edu.tw* -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: 2013Job_Post.doc Type: application/msword Size: 33792 bytes Desc: not available URL: From wujastyk at gmail.com Thu Oct 3 08:50:11 2013 From: wujastyk at gmail.com (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Thu, 03 Oct 13 10:50:11 +0200 Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_[INDOLOGY]=09Lac=C3=B4te,_Essai_sur_Gu=E1=B9=87=C4=81=E1=B8=8Dhya?= In-Reply-To: Message-ID: A model transaction, that serves Andrew's immediate research need as well as placing the book in public for all of us and posterity! Thank you to everyone involved! ?Dominik? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mkapstei at uchicago.edu Thu Oct 3 10:55:33 2013 From: mkapstei at uchicago.edu (Matthew Kapstein) Date: Thu, 03 Oct 13 10:55:33 +0000 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Pataliputra & Patna In-Reply-To: <189B06890DE484479C690A7E718857CF2123AB9C@BL2PRD0811MB423.namprd08.prod.outlook.com> Message-ID: <82C3E42590D939418C74DD76B97DDED07DB99A@xm-mbx-04-prod.ad.uchicago.edu> Rennell's Memoir is available in google books, but, as his reasons for having proposed the identification of Patna and Pataliputra - in advance of course of archeological researches, which began in earnest only some decades later - are really quite interesting, I paste the text of the relevant pages here, minus the notes. It's, I think, a wonderful example of 18th c. geographical scholarship: p. 39 Between Alexander's position on the Hyphasis, (Setlege) and the Jomanes (Jumna) Pliny reckons 336 miles, which exceeds the distance between these rivers in the line of the great road be tween Lahore and Delhi, by about 106 miles : and this distance is not ascertained by the march of an army, but by order of Seleucm Nicator ; and is therefore as worthy of belief as the account of the distance between the Jumna and Ganges, which was done at the same time. But 336 miles is really the distance between the Jumna and that part of the Hyphasis (or Setlege) below the conflux p. 40 of the Bea: which I suppose to have been Alexander's position when he erected his altars. Pliny then proceeds to state that Palibothra is 425 miles below the conflux of the Ganges and Jumna ; and the mouth of the Gan ges 638 below that ; or 1063 below the conflux. It is true that this distance on the map is only 1000 such miles by the road; but we ought to reflect, that our own ideas of this distance did. not come nearer the truth, after we had had an intercourse of near two centuries, with India; and indeed until the present time: for it will be found that M. P'Anville's map of India published in 1752, represents the distance in question as much short of the mark, as Pliny goes beyond it. Therefore by this account Pali bothra should be 425 parts in 1063, of the distance between Al lahabad and the mouth of the Ganges ; or nearly about the town of Bar, 40 miles below Patna. We can hardly doubt after this account of Pliny's, but that some very large city stood nearly in the position which he afligns to Pali bothra ; but that this city was the capital of India, and the place visited by the Grecian Ambassadors, I do by no means suppose. I rather incline to think that the city meant by Pliny, stood on the site of Patna; and that the true Palibothra was no other than Ca- noge, or Kinnoge, for reasons which I shall presently shew. Canoge, the ruin? of which are of a very great extent, was for a series of ages the capital of Hindoostan ; but it is now reduced to the size of a middling town. It is situated on the right bank of the Ganges *, near the place where the Calini river (or Collynuddy) joins it. It is said to have been built more than 1000 years before our ?ra; and is mentioned as the capital of Hindoostan uoder the predecessor of Phoor, or Porus, who fought against Alexander -j-. The successor of Porus, Sinsarchund ("the Sandrocotta of the Greeks) p. 41 paid a tribute to Alexander's successors : and Jona, the second in suc cession from Sinsarchund, reigned at Canoge *. We have no reason to suppose that the capital was removed from Canoge, in the interval between the time of the predecessor of Porus, and the time of Jona ; and therefore Canoge was without doubt the place where the Ambassadors of Seleucus were received, f Bundel- cund and Bahar are evidently, meant (by the circumstance of their lying between Panama, or Panna, and the head of the Adamas river, or that of Sumbulpour and Cattack) are placed about 3 de grees on the south of Palibothra, or in latitude 24? ; and on the north side of them, and- within 18 miles of its true latitude ? is PanaJJ'a, which, no doubt, is intended for Panna, the famous Diamond mine. Now, as the Bundelcund hills are only 30 miles from Allahabad, and near 2 degrees from Canoge, it appears improbable that Alla habad should be the place meant for Palibothra; although it is highly probable that Canoge may. I am of opinion that some reliance may be placed on Ptolemy's latitude of Palibothra ; for on a comparison of the latitudes of five different places between the Indus and Ganges, I find the greatest p. 43 difference to be only 1 2 minutes *, between his latitudes and mine* It must not be forgotten, that the country between Panjab and Palibbthra, was the part of India, of all others the best known to the ancients.' Matthew Kapstein Directeur d'?tudes, Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes Numata Visiting Professor of Buddhist Studies, The University of Chicago ________________________________ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mrinalkaul81 at gmail.com Thu Oct 3 13:15:01 2013 From: mrinalkaul81 at gmail.com (Mrinal Kaul) Date: Thu, 03 Oct 13 15:15:01 +0200 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Publication Announcement (Prof K.C. Pandey Centenary Volume) In-Reply-To: <18C412C2-0ACF-44FC-BB88-21CA76627918@gmail.com> Message-ID: Dear Elisa, I am sorry for the delay caused in getting back to you about the table of contents of the above mentioned volume. Actually, I had requested Prof Navjivan Rastogi if he could make the contents of this volume available to us. He sent to me the scanned copy of the TOC which I am enclosing herewith. However, I note that the contents of the first part are missing. I am assuming the first part deals with the life and works of Professor K.C. Pandey. I hope this is useful to the students of Abhinavagupta. Yours, Mrinal Kaul ************************ Mrinal Kaul Universit? degli Studi di Napoli "L'Orientale" Dipartimento di Studi Asiatici Piazza S. Domenico Maggiore, 12-80134, Napoli (Palazzo Corigliano) ITALY ************************* Tel: +39-3472579917 http://www.iuo.it/ e-mail: mrinal.kaul at stx.oxon.org On 2013-09-22, at 1:54 PM, elisa freschi wrote: > Dear Mrinal, > > I followed the links, but have not been available to reach a TOC. Could you send us one? > > See you soon, > > elisa > > > Dr. Elisa Freschi > > Institute for the Cultural and Intellectual History of Asia > Austrian Academy of Sciences > Apostelgasse 23 > 1030 Vienna > Austria > Phone +43 1 51581 6433 > Fax +43 1 51581 6410 > http://elisafreschi.blogspot.com > http://oeaw.academia.edu/elisafreschi > > On 21/set/13, at 09:17, Mrinal Kaul wrote: > >> (For more details follow the links below) >> >> Title : Abhinav?: Perspectives on Abhinavagupta (Studies in Memory of K.C. Pandey on His Centenary) >> >> Author: Navjivan Rastogi (Ed.) & Meera Rastogi (Joint ed.) >> >> About the Volume: >> >> Till the advent of Prof. K.C. Pandey on the Indological horizon, the Sanskrit academy was hardly aware that Abhinavagupta?the most towering creative genius of medieval India?was more a philosopher than a literary critic and that his foray into poetics, in fact art and aesthetics as such, was to complement and substantiate his metaphysical and soteriological vision and that his contribution has been phenomenal in both the realms along with their allied and applied ramifications. It was largely for Pandey to unearth Abhinavagupta from the historical and academic oblivion and highlight the unique poignancy of Abhinavan contribution as being nurtured by a unified dynamic integral world-view having perfection, that is, oneness of the being and the beautiful, experience and expression, beingness and bliss, foundationally enshrined in its epicenter. Thus, Pandey proved to be a ?path discoverer,? pathikrt and a ?system-builder,? tarkasya karta. He consistently , and cogently, demonstrated through his numerous writings the intrinsically reciprocal congeniality that obtained between the Trika metaphysics on the one hand and its aesthetics on the other, where the former constitutes the genesis (karana hetu) of the theory of art and the latter the psycho-epistemological synthesis to the proper understanding of the tantrico-philosophical stipulations. The volume opens with a fairly long preface introducing the underlying theme and spirit of the whole venture followed by a biographical essay on Pandey?s inspiring life plus a comprehensive bibliography of his writings. The opening segment is followed by the Part One comprising reminiscences from a cross-section of his students and admirers including quite a few surviving close associates and contemporaries. The next two parts constitute the substantive portion and are devoted to Kashmir Shaivism and Abhinavan aesthetics, respectively. >> >> >> http://www.mrmlonline.com/?page=shop/flypage&product_id=2302734&keyword=Navjivan+Rastogi+(Ed.)+&+Meera+Rastogi+(Joint+ed.)&searchby=author&offset=0&fs=1 >> _______________________________________________ >> INDOLOGY mailing list >> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info >> http://listinfo.indology.info > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > http://listinfo.indology.info -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Abh-content2.jpg Type: image/jpg Size: 427384 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Abh.-content3.jpg Type: image/jpg Size: 452701 bytes Desc: not available URL: From mkapstei at uchicago.edu Thu Oct 3 14:48:17 2013 From: mkapstei at uchicago.edu (Matthew Kapstein) Date: Thu, 03 Oct 13 14:48:17 +0000 Subject: [INDOLOGY] lexical query Message-ID: <82C3E42590D939418C74DD76B97DDED07DBA29@xm-mbx-04-prod.ad.uchicago.edu> Have any of my fellow Indologists ever noticed gaandhaara used as an adjective designating a tangible property of some sort (i.e. as gaura designates 'pale')? Such a usage does not seem to be known to MW, Apte or the other dictionaries I have consulted. It does occur as a synonym of sinduura, 'red lead', so perhaps 'reddish'? thanks in advance for your learned assistance, Matthew Matthew Kapstein Directeur d'?tudes, Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes Numata Visiting Professor of Buddhist Studies, The University of Chicago ________________________________ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From wujastyk at gmail.com Thu Oct 3 14:51:47 2013 From: wujastyk at gmail.com (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Thu, 03 Oct 13 16:51:47 +0200 Subject: [INDOLOGY] lexical query In-Reply-To: <82C3E42590D939418C74DD76B97DDED07DBA29@xm-mbx-04-prod.ad.uchicago.edu> Message-ID: mightn't the sind?ra synonyms be some sort of corruption from gandha- or gandhaka- (sulphur compounds are red)? ? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mailmealakendudas at rediffmail.com Thu Oct 3 16:16:59 2013 From: mailmealakendudas at rediffmail.com (alakendu das) Date: Thu, 03 Oct 13 16:16:59 +0000 Subject: [INDOLOGY] dharma in Rg Veda Message-ID: <20131003161659.6168.qmail@f4mail-235-209.rediffmail.com> To All, Can anybody furnish me any references where the word 'Dharma' has been mentioned in Rg Veda.?The objective is to know whether Dharma is a Post-Vedic concept or not.? ALAKENDU DAS Post-Graduate,Indology. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From drdj at austin.utexas.edu Thu Oct 3 16:27:22 2013 From: drdj at austin.utexas.edu (Donald R Davis) Date: Thu, 03 Oct 13 16:27:22 +0000 Subject: [INDOLOGY] dharma in Rg Veda In-Reply-To: <20131003161659.6168.qmail@f4mail-235-209.rediffmail.com> Message-ID: <1f5523e377ed40c786f352108bed4ac6@BY2PR06MB188.namprd06.prod.outlook.com> Please see the attached study of Dharma in RgVeda. Best, Don From: INDOLOGY [mailto:indology-bounces at list.indology.info] On Behalf Of alakendu das Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2013 11:17 AM To: indology at list.indology.info Subject: [INDOLOGY] dharma in Rg Veda To All, Can anybody furnish me any references where the word 'Dharma' has been mentioned in Rg Veda.?The objective is to know whether Dharma is a Post-Vedic concept or not.? ALAKENDU DAS Post-Graduate,Indology. [Image removed by sender.] Get your own FREE website, FREE domain & FREE mobile app with Company email. Know More > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: WRD000.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 823 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Brereton-DharmaRgVeda.pdf Type: application/pdf Size: 242405 bytes Desc: not available URL: From ashok.aklujkar at gmail.com Fri Oct 4 05:56:30 2013 From: ashok.aklujkar at gmail.com (Ashok Aklujkar) Date: Thu, 03 Oct 13 22:56:30 -0700 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Pataliputra & Patna Message-ID: <69ACB2FB-A8BB-4736-8C86-DF612F98602E@gmail.com> I am deeply grateful to David Drewes, Eli Franco, Nathan M. McGovern and Matthew Kapstein for their responses to my query. Usually, questions of the type 'When was X was first said/used?' are not easy to answer, especially in a field like Indology. I was surprised to get a precise answer to my question so quickly. Once again I realized the value of the Indology forum. I reproduce below the response of David Drewes, since it was not copied to the list and has some information not given in the other responses: >Mainly, the first was William Jones in his tenth anniversary discourse (1793). Jones certainly speaks of it as his own original idea. But Charles Allen states that James Rennell did so before this in a book entitled _Memoir and Map of Hindoostan_ (1788). See Allen, _The Search for the Buddha_ (alt title: Buddha and the Sahibs), 70f.< Matthew, I particularly appreciate the trouble you took of copying the relevant sections of the Google Books pdf of James Rennell's book (which, obviously, was written in an age when writing short sentences was a crime). As you rightly observed, it is " a wonderful example of 18th c. geographical scholarship". The effort made is what should earn our admiration. Hyphasis is nowadays identified with Beas, not Setlege/Sutlej. Rennell, on the other hand, entertains a distinction between Alexander's position on the Hyphasis and his position on the Beas. Intriguingly, on pp. 40-42, Rennell writes several lines expressing his preference for identifying Palibothra with Canoge/ Kinnoge [= "town of Bar, 40 miles below Patna"? or 'near the conflux of the Calini river with the Ganges"?], not with Patna [= city meant by Pliny]. He does not use the word Paa.taliputra at all. Those who took him as identifying Paa.taliputra with Patna must have (a) decided to ignore the 40 miles distance between Patna and Bar and (b) must have thought of the identification 'Paa.taliputra = Palibothra' as settled. The identification in (b) is indeed taken by most modern historians as settled, but does Rennell himself accept it in his book? (Being in Canada, I can consult the Google Books pdf only page by page. I need to know the numbers of the pages on which Rennell refers to Paa.taliputra). I suppose Calini is Kaa.lii/Kaali or Kaalindii. What is known about Canoge/Kinnoge or Bar as town names? Rennell seems to use them as if they are common knowledge. a.a. From hellwig7 at gmx.de Fri Oct 4 08:23:53 2013 From: hellwig7 at gmx.de (Oliver Hellwig) Date: Fri, 04 Oct 13 10:23:53 +0200 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Lexical query gandhAra Message-ID: <524E7B19.4010501@gmx.de> For gandhAra(***) = sindUra, you may refer to Kaiyadevanighantu, 2.67 (synonyms of sindUra): http://kjc-fs-cluster.kjc.uni-heidelberg.de/dcs/index.php?contents=fundstellen&IDWord=47040&IDText=77 or "W?rterbuch der m.a. indischen Alchemie", p. 243. Best, Oliver From mkapstei at uchicago.edu Fri Oct 4 09:26:13 2013 From: mkapstei at uchicago.edu (Matthew Kapstein) Date: Fri, 04 Oct 13 09:26:13 +0000 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Lexical query gandhAra In-Reply-To: <524E7B19.4010501@gmx.de> Message-ID: <82C3E42590D939418C74DD76B97DDED07DC1F3@xm-mbx-04-prod.ad.uchicago.edu> Thank you, Oliver, but my question was really whether or not anyone has noticed its being used adjectively. SindUra, like gAndhAra, is recorded as a noun in the lexicons and dictionaries at my disposal. But this nominal usage does not make sense in the context I am looking at (its occurrence in a long list of adjectival qualities-pale, soft, sweet-smelling). with thanks again for your kind attention, Mathew Matthew Kapstein Directeur d'?tudes, Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes Numata Visiting Professor of Buddhist Studies, The University of Chicago From LubinT at wlu.edu Fri Oct 4 11:07:36 2013 From: LubinT at wlu.edu (Lubin, Tim) Date: Fri, 04 Oct 13 11:07:36 +0000 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Pataliputra & Patna In-Reply-To: <69ACB2FB-A8BB-4736-8C86-DF612F98602E@gmail.com> Message-ID: A couple of copies of the 2nd edition of Rennell (1788) are available from Archive: http://archive.org/search.php?query=creator%3A%22Rennell%2C+James%2C+1742-1830%22 There is a 3rd edition (1793) with an additional map in Google books. Best, Tim -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From LubinT at wlu.edu Fri Oct 4 11:39:14 2013 From: LubinT at wlu.edu (Lubin, Tim) Date: Fri, 04 Oct 13 11:39:14 +0000 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Pataliputra & Patna In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Also, Rennell's Canoge is surely Kannauj. One of the tributaries of the Ganges south of the city seems to be known as the Kali nadi (see e.g., http://www.jnvkannauj.org/history.php ). Tim From: , Timothy Lubin > Date: Friday, October 4, 2013 7:07 AM To: "ashok.aklujkar" >, Indology List > Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] Pataliputra & Patna A couple of copies of the 2nd edition of Rennell (1788) are available from Archive: http://archive.org/search.php?query=creator%3A%22Rennell%2C+James%2C+1742-1830%22 There is a 3rd edition (1793) with an additional map in Google books. Best, Tim Timothy Lubin Professor of Religion Washington and Lee University Lexington, Virginia 24450 http://home.wlu.edu/~lubint http://wlu.academia.edu/TimothyLubin http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/cf_dev/AbsByAuth.cfm?per_id=930949 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From wujastyk at gmail.com Fri Oct 4 11:56:14 2013 From: wujastyk at gmail.com (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Fri, 04 Oct 13 13:56:14 +0200 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Pataliputra & Patna In-Reply-To: <69ACB2FB-A8BB-4736-8C86-DF612F98602E@gmail.com> Message-ID: Meer Hassan Ali on Kannoge, "midway between Cawnpore and Futtyghur": - http://digi.ub.uni-heidelberg.de/diglit/meerhassanali1832bd2/0133 As Tim says, it's Kannauj. Rennell's "Bar" is probably "Barh" which is indeed about the right distance below (=downstream) from Patna. See the map: http://tinyurl.com/o2xpr64 The archaeologists focus on Kumrahar, which is a suburb of Patna, and a long way west of Barh. Other sites right within Patna are discussed and identified in the archaeological literature and the Gazetteers. The Imperial Gazetteer(Oxford, Clarendon Press, 1908-1931) places Pataliputra between Bankipur and Patna, on the tongue of land between the rivers. See also here . Dominik ? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From wujastyk at gmail.com Fri Oct 4 12:12:49 2013 From: wujastyk at gmail.com (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Fri, 04 Oct 13 14:12:49 +0200 Subject: [INDOLOGY] dharma in Rg Veda In-Reply-To: <20131003161659.6168.qmail@f4mail-235-209.rediffmail.com> Message-ID: I think you would find the Wikipedia entry on Dharmawould answer your question. References to words in the RV can be easily had by fetching the text from GRETIL or elsewhere, and just searching. But that's not enough. Meanings arise only from sentences. So you have to read and understand the sentences and think about the meanings. For example, the use and meaning of the word "dharma" in the RV is very different from "dharma" in the dharma??stras. There is important scholarship from Olivelle, developed over recent years, that suggests that the development of the Br?hma?a dharma??stra literatures is a direct response to the challenge of the Buddha's use of dhamma as a key term on which to hang his teaching. Pre-Buddhist uses of the word are not prominent, ideologically speaking. ? ?Dominik Wujastyk? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From philipp.a.maas at gmail.com Fri Oct 4 12:57:18 2013 From: philipp.a.maas at gmail.com (Philipp Maas) Date: Fri, 04 Oct 13 14:57:18 +0200 Subject: [INDOLOGY] dharma in Rg Veda Message-ID: I would recommend as a starting point for further research the chapter "Dharma in the Self-Understanding of Traditional Hinduism" by W. Halbfass in his* India and Europe. An Eassay in Philosophical Understanding*. Delhi: Motilal Banarsidass, 1990, p.310-333, which highlights historical continuities as well as breaks in the use of the words *dharman *and *dharma *in pre-modern brahmanical circles of South Asia. Philipp Maas 2013/10/4 Dominik Wujastyk > I think you would find the Wikipedia entry on Dharmawould answer your question. > > References to words in the RV can be easily had by fetching the text from > GRETIL or elsewhere, and just searching. But that's not enough. Meanings > arise only from sentences. So you have to read and understand the > sentences and think about the meanings. For example, the use and meaning > of the word "dharma" in the RV is very different from "dharma" in the > dharma??stras. > > There is important scholarship from Olivelle, developed over recent years, > that suggests that the development of the Br?hma?a dharma??stra literatures > is a direct response to the challenge of the Buddha's use of dhamma as a > key term on which to hang his teaching. Pre-Buddhist uses of the word are > not prominent, ideologically speaking. > ? > ?Dominik Wujastyk? > > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > http://listinfo.indology.info > -- Dr. Philipp A. Maas Universit?tsassistent Institut f?r S?dasien-, Tibet- und Buddhismuskunde Universit?t Wien Spitalgasse 2-4, Hof 2, Eingang 2.1 A-1090 Wien ?sterreich -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From barkhuis at gmail.com Fri Oct 4 13:16:56 2013 From: barkhuis at gmail.com (Roelf Barkhuis) Date: Fri, 04 Oct 13 15:16:56 +0200 Subject: [INDOLOGY] eJIM, the eJournal of Indian Medicine, has just published its latest issue Message-ID: <000f01cec104$0112c3c0$03384b40$@gmail.com> Dear INDOLOGISTS, eJIM, the eJournal of Indian Medicine, has just published its latest issue at http://www.indianmedicine.nl. Articles: * Memoirs of Vaidyas. The Lives and Practices of Traditional Medical Doctors in Kerala, India (7) (45-90) Tsutomu Yamashita, Ram P. Manohar * Mah?devadeva?s Hikmatprak??a ? A Sanskrit treatise on Y?n?n? medicine. Part III: text and commentary of selected verses from Section III with an annotated English translation (91-188) Jan Meulenbeld We thank all 1,250 registered readers for the continuing interest in our work. Roelf Barkhuis Journal manager info at barkhuis.nl -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Joseph.Walser at tufts.edu Fri Oct 4 18:06:47 2013 From: Joseph.Walser at tufts.edu (Walser, Joseph) Date: Fri, 04 Oct 13 18:06:47 +0000 Subject: [INDOLOGY] lexical query In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Does anybody have a scan of the following? Bergaigne, Abel, (1889) Recherches sur l'histoire de la liturgie ve?dique. La forme me?trique des hymnes du Rig-Ve?da. I have checked archive.org and google books with no luck. I have also tried to get it through ILL, but am told that no one will lend it. Thanks, -j Joseph Walser Associate Professor Department of Religion Tufts University From adheesh1 at gmail.com Fri Oct 4 18:18:24 2013 From: adheesh1 at gmail.com (Adheesh Sathaye) Date: Fri, 04 Oct 13 20:18:24 +0200 Subject: [INDOLOGY] lexical query In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Dear Joseph, It appears to be publicly available on the Persee archives at: http://www.persee.fr/web/revues/home/prescript/article/crai_0065-0536_1888_num_32_3_69484 I'm sending you the PDF privately in case you are unable to access the link for some reason. Best wishes, Adheesh ---- Adheesh Sathaye Department of Asian Studies University of British Columbia On Oct 4, 2013, at 8:06 PM, Walser, Joseph wrote: > Does anybody have a scan of the following? > > > > Bergaigne, Abel, (1889) Recherches sur l'histoire de la liturgie v?dique. La forme m?trique des hymnes du Rig-V?da. > > > > I have checked archive.org and google books with no luck. I have also tried to get it through ILL, but am told that no one will lend it. > > > > Thanks, > > > > -j > > > > > > Joseph Walser > > Associate Professor > > Department of Religion > > Tufts University > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > http://listinfo.indology.info From Joseph.Walser at tufts.edu Fri Oct 4 19:09:43 2013 From: Joseph.Walser at tufts.edu (Walser, Joseph) Date: Fri, 04 Oct 13 19:09:43 +0000 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Bergaigne [was: lexical query] In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Dear Victor and Adheesh, Thank you so much for your quick response! I noticed on Worldcat that there is a book with the same title by Bergaigne that is 109 pages. Would you know anything about that longer version? -j Joseph Walser Associate Professor Department of Religion Tufts University ________________________________ From: victor davella [vbd203 at googlemail.com] Sent: Friday, October 04, 2013 2:14 PM To: Walser, Joseph Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] lexical query It's available on Persee , but I attached a copy in case others have a problem accessing the site. All the Best, Victor On Fri, Oct 4, 2013 at 1:06 PM, Walser, Joseph > wrote: Does anybody have a scan of the following? Bergaigne, Abel, (1889) Recherches sur l'histoire de la liturgie ve?dique. La forme me?trique des hymnes du Rig-Ve?da. I have checked archive.org and google books with no luck. I have also tried to get it through ILL, but am told that no one will lend it. Thanks, -j Joseph Walser Associate Professor Department of Religion Tufts University _______________________________________________ INDOLOGY mailing list INDOLOGY at list.indology.info http://listinfo.indology.info From r.mahoney at indica-et-buddhica.org Fri Oct 4 19:59:26 2013 From: r.mahoney at indica-et-buddhica.org (Richard Mahoney) Date: Sat, 05 Oct 13 08:59:26 +1300 Subject: [INDOLOGY] POSITIONS> Indexers ``Index Buddhicus'' / Classified Buddhist Studies Bibliography Message-ID: <524F1E1E.1010207@indica-et-buddhica.org> Dear Colleagues, Brill Academic Publishers is looking for two to four indexers for its new classified bibliography for Buddhist Studies edited in close collaboration with the Center for Religious Studies (CERES), Ruhr University Bochum, Germany. It is intended that the Index Buddhicus will be the main academic bibliographical reference in the field of Buddhist studies. It will consist of classified bibliographical records for monographs, reviews, chapters in edited volumes, journal articles, reference works, electronic resources, and whatever else is thought relevant. The indexers will be appointed on a project basis, but in the longer term a fixed position within the framework of the project is possible. Further details are available here: http://www.ceres.rub.de/en/news/all/en-20131002-job-index-buddhicus/ Please direct all enquires to Prof. Sven Bretfeld, Ruhr University Bochum, Universitaetsstr. 150, FNO 01/176, 44780 Bochum. sven.bretfeld[at]rub.de Kind regards, Richard -- Richard Mahoney Littledene Bay Road Oxford New Zealand M: +64-21-064-0216 T: +64-3-312-1699 E: r.mahoney at indica-et-buddhica.org http://indica-et-buddhica.org -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: editor-position-posting-text-IB.pdf Type: application/pdf Size: 180376 bytes Desc: not available URL: From r.mahoney at indica-et-buddhica.org Sat Oct 5 00:38:44 2013 From: r.mahoney at indica-et-buddhica.org (Richard Mahoney) Date: Sat, 05 Oct 13 13:38:44 +1300 Subject: [INDOLOGY] POSITIONS> Indexers ``Index Buddhicus'' / Classified Buddhist Studies Bibliography Message-ID: <524F5F94.2090805@indica-et-buddhica.org> Dear Colleagues, Brill Academic Publishers is looking for two to four indexers for its new classified bibliography for Buddhist Studies edited in close collaboration with the Center for Religious Studies (CERES), Ruhr University Bochum, Germany. It is intended that the Index Buddhicus will be the main academic bibliographical reference in the field of Buddhist studies. It will consist of classified bibliographical records for monographs, reviews, chapters in edited volumes, journal articles, reference works, electronic resources, and whatever else is thought relevant. The indexers will be appointed on a project basis, but in the longer term a fixed position within the framework of the project is possible. Further details are available here: http://www.ceres.rub.de/en/news/all/en-20131002-job-index-buddhicus/ Please direct all enquires to Prof. Sven Bretfeld, Ruhr University Bochum, Universitaetsstr. 150, FNO 01/176, 44780 Bochum. sven.bretfeld[at]rub.de Kind regards, Richard -- Richard Mahoney Littledene Bay Road Oxford New Zealand M: +64-21-064-0216 T: +64-3-312-1699 E: r.mahoney at indica-et-buddhica.org http://indica-et-buddhica.org -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: editor-position-posting-text-IB.pdf Type: application/pdf Size: 180376 bytes Desc: not available URL: From jpo at uts.cc.utexas.edu Sat Oct 5 19:12:52 2013 From: jpo at uts.cc.utexas.edu (Patrick Olivelle) Date: Sat, 05 Oct 13 14:12:52 -0500 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Query Message-ID: Friends: Deva??abha??a in his Sm?ticandrik? (Mysore edition, p. 40; Gharpure ed. p. 18) commenting on the term ?re?i says: ?re?yo rajak?dya???da?ah?naj?taya? | Does anyone know the identity of these eighteen lower castes? Thanks. Patrick From ashok.aklujkar at gmail.com Sat Oct 5 23:47:22 2013 From: ashok.aklujkar at gmail.com (Ashok Aklujkar) Date: Sat, 05 Oct 13 16:47:22 -0700 Subject: [INDOLOGY] query: 18 ;sre.nii jaatis In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Patrick, There may be regional variations and overlaps but in Maharashtra they are (according to one dictionary, with approximate translations): taamba.ta 'coppersmith,' paatharava.ta 'stone-cutter,' lohaara 'ironsmith, sutaara 'carpenter,' sonaara, 'goldsmith, kaasaara 'bangle-maker &/or seller,' kumbhaara 'potter, gurava ' local non-brahmin priest,' dhanagara 'sheep-keeper.' gava.lii 'milkaman,' vaa.nii 'grocery merchant,' Jaina, ko.s.tii 'weaver,' saa.lii, citaarii 'painter (= picture artist?),'' maa.lii 'flower-grower &/or seller,' telii 'oilman,' ra:ngaarii 'painter (of walls etc.). If Deva.n.na-bha.tta is an author from Maharashtra-Karnataka area, his intended list should be largely similar, although his rajaka, if intended in the sense 'washerman,' as distinct from 'one who colors cloth (with indigo etc.)', is not there. In the other sense, it could be covered by ra:ngaarii or citaarii . I would be interested in knowing any different explanations or listings you get. a.a. On 2013-10-05, at 12:12 PM, Patrick Olivelle wrote: Friends: Deva??abha??a in his Sm?ticandrik? (Mysore edition, p. 40; Gharpure ed. p. 18) commenting on the term ?re?i says: ?re?yo rajak?dya???da?ah?naj?taya? | Does anyone know the identity of these eighteen lower castes? Thanks. Patrick _______________________________________________ INDOLOGY mailing list INDOLOGY at list.indology.info http://listinfo.indology.info From mmdesh at umich.edu Sun Oct 6 10:52:27 2013 From: mmdesh at umich.edu (Madhav Deshpande) Date: Sun, 06 Oct 13 06:52:27 -0400 Subject: [INDOLOGY] query: 18 ;sre.nii jaatis In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Dear Patrick, In continuation of Ashok's suggestion, I want to point out that there is an expression in Marathi ???? ??? ???? "18 types of J?tis". Some of the J?tinir?aya texts produced by Marathi Pandits may have some local listings similar to what Ashok has given. I have one or two such texts, and will check if they have any list of 18 J?tis. Madhav On Sat, Oct 5, 2013 at 7:47 PM, Ashok Aklujkar wrote: > Patrick, > > There may be regional variations and overlaps but in Maharashtra they are > (according to one dictionary, with approximate translations): > > taamba.ta 'coppersmith,' > paatharava.ta 'stone-cutter,' > lohaara 'ironsmith, > sutaara 'carpenter,' > sonaara, 'goldsmith, > kaasaara 'bangle-maker &/or seller,' > kumbhaara 'potter, > gurava ' local non-brahmin priest,' > dhanagara 'sheep-keeper.' > gava.lii 'milkaman,' > vaa.nii 'grocery merchant,' > Jaina, > ko.s.tii 'weaver,' > saa.lii, > citaarii 'painter (= picture artist?),'' > maa.lii 'flower-grower &/or seller,' > telii 'oilman,' > ra:ngaarii 'painter (of walls etc.). > > If Deva.n.na-bha.tta is an author from Maharashtra-Karnataka area, his > intended list should be largely similar, although his rajaka, if intended > in the sense 'washerman,' as distinct from 'one who colors cloth (with > indigo etc.)', is not there. In the other sense, it could be covered by > ra:ngaarii or citaarii . > > I would be interested in knowing any different explanations or listings > you get. > > a.a. > > > On 2013-10-05, at 12:12 PM, Patrick Olivelle wrote: > > Friends: > > Deva??abha??a in his Sm?ticandrik? (Mysore edition, p. 40; Gharpure ed. p. > 18) commenting on the term ?re?i says: > > ?re?yo rajak?dya???da?ah?naj?taya? | > > Does anyone know the identity of these eighteen lower castes? Thanks. > > Patrick > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > http://listinfo.indology.info > > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > http://listinfo.indology.info -- Madhav M. Deshpande Professor of Sanskrit and Linguistics Department of Asian Languages and Cultures 202 South Thayer Street, Suite 6111 The University of Michigan Ann Arbor, MI 48104-1608, USA -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ashok.aklujkar at gmail.com Sun Oct 6 18:39:58 2013 From: ashok.aklujkar at gmail.com (Ashok Aklujkar) Date: Sun, 06 Oct 13 11:39:58 -0700 Subject: [INDOLOGY] query: 18 ;sre.nii jaatis In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Thanks, Madhav. In fact, I got the list by looking under ???? ??? ???? in ?????????????? ????'s ?????? ???????????. ??? here is probably a shortened form of ???? 'turban' as in ??????? and ???????? and probably ?????? (a game in which playing pieces are hidden in turbans). The listed business communities could have had distinctive turbans or headdresses. In my last post, I overlooked to give the meaning of ????. It is 'weaver of cotton or silk.' Its distinction from ?????? is difficult to tell. If ?????? is related to ??? or ??? and that word is taken as standing for a the cocoon of a silk worm, originally ?????? could have had the meaning of 'weaver of silk'. ??? probably stands for ????s not selling certain things or merchants observing certain restrictions in selling. a.a. On 2013-10-06, at 3:52 AM, Madhav Deshpande wrote: ... there is an expression in Marathi ???? ??? ???? "18 types of J?tis". From ashok.aklujkar at gmail.com Sun Oct 6 19:14:32 2013 From: ashok.aklujkar at gmail.com (Ashok Aklujkar) Date: Sun, 06 Oct 13 12:14:32 -0700 Subject: [INDOLOGY] query: 18 ;sre.nii jaatis In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <0FA88688-B865-40A1-B16C-B692097E94BF@gmail.com> I earlier wrote: "The listed business communities could have had distinctive turbans or headdresses.< Another possibility is that all of them or almost all of them customarily wore some kind of turban or head covering (not necessarily a distinctive one for each of them). The people mentioned are only *relatively* hiina or 'lower, inferior' They are not in the lowest stratum.Having a headdress could have served to distinguish them. It is very common in the listed communities even today in India to have a cap or turban on the head. a.a. From wmcox at uchicago.edu Sun Oct 6 19:55:57 2013 From: wmcox at uchicago.edu (Whitney Cox) Date: Sun, 06 Oct 13 14:55:57 -0500 Subject: [INDOLOGY] query: 18 ;sre.nii jaatis In-Reply-To: <0FA88688-B865-40A1-B16C-B692097E94BF@gmail.com> Message-ID: Dear all, In an earlier off-list message to Patrick, I suggested that the h?najataya? in question might have been part of the 'left-hand' communities in the far South, sometimes reckoned as eighteen in number. In the light of Ashok and Madhav's interesting comments, I would like to revise that suggestion, and instead propose that we might see here a reflex of another set of South-Indian caste-communities referred to in Tamil as the ku?imakka?, perhaps best rendered 'people of the village'. The entry s.v. in the Madras Tamil Lexicon reads (with my transliteration and bracketed translations): ku?imakka? , *n*. < id. +. 1. Sub-castes rendering service in a village, being 18 in number, viz.,va???n? [washerman], n?vitan? [barber], kuyavan? [potter], ta???n? [goldsmith], kan?n??n? [brazier], kar?r?accan? [mason], kollan? [blacksmith], taccan? [carpenter], e??eyv??ikan? [oil merchant], uppuv??ikan? [salt merchant], ilaiv??ikan? [betel merchant], pa??i [watchman], p?m?laikk?ran? [garland maker], par?aiyan? [Dalit, pariah], k?vilku?iy?n? [conch-blower], occan? [? another Dalit community], valaiyan? [fisherman], p??an? [tailor]. Note that this list begins with washermen, just like Deva??abha??a's. I recall reading somewhere--though I may be misremembering--that there is some suggestion that D. hailed from the Dravidian south, thus possibly making this list a good potential set of parallels to the Sm?ticandrik?. Of course, sets of eighteen are very common, and the particular contents of any such list liable to vary according to time, place, and circumstances. Best, Whitney On Sun, Oct 6, 2013 at 2:14 PM, Ashok Aklujkar wrote: > I earlier wrote: "The listed business communities could have had > distinctive turbans or headdresses.< Another possibility is that all of > them or almost all of them customarily wore some kind of turban or head > covering (not necessarily a distinctive one for each of them). > > The people mentioned are only *relatively* hiina or 'lower, inferior' They > are not in the lowest stratum.Having a headdress could have served to > distinguish them. > > It is very common in the listed communities even today in India to have a > cap or turban on the head. > > a.a. > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > http://listinfo.indology.info > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jpo at uts.cc.utexas.edu Sun Oct 6 20:25:49 2013 From: jpo at uts.cc.utexas.edu (Patrick Olivelle) Date: Sun, 06 Oct 13 15:25:49 -0500 Subject: [INDOLOGY] query: 18 ;sre.nii jaatis In-Reply-To: <0FA88688-B865-40A1-B16C-B692097E94BF@gmail.com> Message-ID: <00EC363B-D56E-4C3D-B734-95A8FDE970E9@uts.cc.utexas.edu> Ashok: Even thought these particular castes may not be at the lowest level, a list of 16 such castes listed in a passage from the Garu?a Pur??a and cited in the Caturvargacint?ma?i (Pr?ya?citta, p. 38) -- Kane IV: 115 -- take them to be untouchable; they are called C????las living in the village! Patrick On Oct 6, 2013, at 2:14 PM, Ashok Aklujkar wrote: > I earlier wrote: "The listed business communities could have had distinctive turbans or headdresses.< Another possibility is that all of them or almost all of them customarily wore some kind of turban or head covering (not necessarily a distinctive one for each of them). > > The people mentioned are only *relatively* hiina or 'lower, inferior' They are not in the lowest stratum.Having a headdress could have served to distinguish them. > > It is very common in the listed communities even today in India to have a cap or turban on the head. > > a.a. > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > http://listinfo.indology.info From jpo at uts.cc.utexas.edu Sun Oct 6 20:32:14 2013 From: jpo at uts.cc.utexas.edu (Patrick Olivelle) Date: Sun, 06 Oct 13 15:32:14 -0500 Subject: [INDOLOGY] query: 18 ;sre.nii jaatis In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Thank you, Whitney. This is excellent and a good parallel to Deva??a -- yes he was from the southern Maharashtra area (Kane I: 738). Patrick On Oct 6, 2013, at 2:55 PM, Whitney Cox wrote: > Dear all, > > In an earlier off-list message to Patrick, I suggested that the h?najataya? in question might have been part of the 'left-hand' communities in the far South, sometimes reckoned as eighteen in number. In the light of Ashok and Madhav's interesting comments, I would like to revise that suggestion, and instead propose that we might see here a reflex of another set of South-Indian caste-communities referred to in Tamil as the ku?imakka?, perhaps best rendered 'people of the village'. The entry s.v. in the Madras Tamil Lexicon reads (with my transliteration and bracketed translations): > > ku?imakka? , n. < id. +. 1. Sub-castes rendering service in a village, being 18 in number, viz.,va???n? [washerman], n?vitan? [barber], kuyavan? [potter], ta???n? [goldsmith], kan?n??n? [brazier], kar?r?accan? [mason], kollan? [blacksmith], taccan? [carpenter], e??eyv??ikan? [oil merchant], uppuv??ikan? [salt merchant], ilaiv??ikan? [betel merchant], pa??i [watchman], p?m?laikk?ran? [garland maker], par?aiyan? [Dalit, pariah], k?vilku?iy?n? [conch-blower], occan? [? another Dalit community], valaiyan? [fisherman], p??an? [tailor]. > > Note that this list begins with washermen, just like Deva??abha??a's. I recall reading somewhere--though I may be misremembering--that there is some suggestion that D. hailed from the Dravidian south, thus possibly making this list a good potential set of parallels to the Sm?ticandrik?. Of course, sets of eighteen are very common, and the particular contents of any such list liable to vary according to time, place, and circumstances. > > Best, > > Whitney > > > > On Sun, Oct 6, 2013 at 2:14 PM, Ashok Aklujkar wrote: > I earlier wrote: "The listed business communities could have had distinctive turbans or headdresses.< Another possibility is that all of them or almost all of them customarily wore some kind of turban or head covering (not necessarily a distinctive one for each of them). > > The people mentioned are only *relatively* hiina or 'lower, inferior' They are not in the lowest stratum.Having a headdress could have served to distinguish them. > > It is very common in the listed communities even today in India to have a cap or turban on the head. > > a.a. > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > http://listinfo.indology.info > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > http://listinfo.indology.info -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From arlogriffiths at hotmail.com Mon Oct 7 00:14:58 2013 From: arlogriffiths at hotmail.com (Arlo Griffiths) Date: Mon, 07 Oct 13 00:14:58 +0000 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Bergaigne [was: lexical query] In-Reply-To: Message-ID: The version in the CRAI is only a summary. I have with me a xerox of the book that you find on WorldCat (99 numbered pages...). I made the xerox in 1997 from the copy in the Widener Library (IndL 3011.24), only a stone's throw away from Tufts. The book was published as an ? extrait du Journal asiatique ?; in what I suppose is Lanman's hand, the copy I xeroxed gives detailed references to [JA] 8.viii.193f. sep. 1885; 8.ix.191f. f?v. 1886, which you should be able to trace through Gallica; the same hand further refers to Oldenberg, ZDMG xli.508f. 1887 and Bergaigne, JA 8.x.488, nov. 1888. Arlo Griffiths EFEO/Jakarta > From: Joseph.Walser at tufts.edu > To: INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > Date: Fri, 4 Oct 2013 19:09:43 +0000 > Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] Bergaigne [was: lexical query] > > Dear Victor and Adheesh, > > Thank you so much for your quick response! > > I noticed on Worldcat that there is a book with the same title by Bergaigne that is 109 pages. Would you know anything about that longer version? > > > > -j > > > > > > Joseph Walser > > Associate Professor > > Department of Religion > > Tufts University > > ________________________________ > From: victor davella [vbd203 at googlemail.com] > Sent: Friday, October 04, 2013 2:14 PM > To: Walser, Joseph > Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] lexical query > > It's available on Persee , but I attached a copy in case others have a problem accessing the site. > > All the Best, > Victor > > > On Fri, Oct 4, 2013 at 1:06 PM, Walser, Joseph > wrote: > Does anybody have a scan of the following? > > > > Bergaigne, Abel, (1889) Recherches sur l'histoire de la liturgie ve?dique. La forme me?trique des hymnes du Rig-Ve?da. > > > > I have checked archive.org and google books with no luck. I have also tried to get it through ILL, but am told that no one will lend it. > > > > Thanks, > > > > -j > > > > > > Joseph Walser > > Associate Professor > > Department of Religion > > Tufts University > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > http://listinfo.indology.info > > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > http://listinfo.indology.info -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tylerwwilliams at gmail.com Mon Oct 7 02:47:03 2013 From: tylerwwilliams at gmail.com (Tyler Williams) Date: Sun, 06 Oct 13 22:47:03 -0400 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Fwd: [Mesaasg] (corrected) CFP: MESAAS Graduate Conference 2014 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Dear Colleagues, If you know of graduate students who would benefit from presenting and receiving feedback on their work, especially among peers not only from South Asian studies but also from Middle Eastern and Africa studies, please feel free to pass on the following information regarding the 2014 Graduate Student Conference at the Department of Middle Eastern, South Asian, and African Studies at Columbia University, to be held on 27-28 February, 2014. It is a unique opportunity for research students to interface with their counterparts in other areas on themes of common interest. Best, Tyler PDF attached. Please circulate widely. Call For Papers: MESAAS Graduate Conference 2014 27 - 28 February, 2014 Department of Middle Eastern, South Asian and African Studies Columbia University in the City of New York The organizing committee of the 2014 MESAAS Graduate Student Conference at Columbia University is pleased to invite paper and panel submissions addressing themes that broadly relate to the MESAAS regions, including but not limited to the following: - Literatures and aesthetics (Classical, early modern, and contemporary genres of imaginative literature; the visual and performing arts; cinema studies) - Knowledge systems, classical and contemporary (in law, ethics, science, language, and other fields; the history of Oriental Studies; the university) - Genealogies of the political (discursive and institutional histories of contemporary political practices) - Histories, disciplinary and subaltern (comparative studies of academic or professional modes of history writing and the vernacular or popular forms of retelling the past) MESAAS is heir and host to a number of intellectual traditions that resist division between the humanities and social sciences. We are interested in examining both classical and emergent questions in area studies, not as objects of research but as sources of generative knowledge, and as such, aim to formulate new and post-disciplinary modes of inquiry beyond the prevalent conditions of both scientism and historicism. As such, we are equally interested in the limits of disciplinary knowledge production, hegemonic epistemes and paradigms of thought, the work that goes into the construction of ?areas? of study, as well as the past and future of area studies. To that end, we especially encourage work that rethinks the boundaries and conditions of the disciplines with reference to regionally specific work, particularly as that relates to critical geographical imaginaries from and within the regions represented in the department. Students interested in presenting a 20-minute paper should submit a 300-500 word abstract and one-page resume through the conference website: http://www.mesaasgradconference.org by December 1st, 2013. Notifications will be sent in late December. Panel submissions are encouraged. For other inquiries, please contact us via: info at mesaasgradconference.org _______________________________________________ Mesaasg mailing list Mesaasg at lists.columbia.edu https://lists.columbia.edu/mailman/listinfo/mesaasg -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: FINALCFPOCT6.pdf Type: application/pdf Size: 137767 bytes Desc: not available URL: From ganesan at ifpindia.org Mon Oct 7 04:21:44 2013 From: ganesan at ifpindia.org (Dr. T. Ganesan) Date: Mon, 07 Oct 13 09:51:44 +0530 Subject: [INDOLOGY] query: 18 ;sre.nii jaatis In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <525236D8.9030505@ifpindia.org> It is also common in rural Tamilnadu to say "????? ???? ????????? ????" "paLLi paRaiya patineTTu cAti" meaning people of 18 jati-s including the paLLi, paRaiya, etc. to convey that so many people belonging to all castes are assembled, say, for the temple festival, etc. Ganesan On 06-10-2013 16:22, Madhav Deshpande wrote: > Dear Patrick, > > In continuation of Ashok's suggestion, I want to point out that > there is an expression in Marathi ???? ??? ???? "18 types of Ja-tis". > Some of the Ja-tinirn.aya texts produced by Marathi Pandits may have > some local listings similar to what Ashok has given. I have one or > two such texts, and will check if they have any list of 18 Ja-tis. > > Madhav > > > On Sat, Oct 5, 2013 at 7:47 PM, Ashok Aklujkar > > wrote: > > Patrick, > > There may be regional variations and overlaps but in Maharashtra > they are (according to one dictionary, with approximate translations): > > taamba.ta 'coppersmith,' > paatharava.ta 'stone-cutter,' > lohaara 'ironsmith, > sutaara 'carpenter,' > sonaara, 'goldsmith, > kaasaara 'bangle-maker &/or seller,' > kumbhaara 'potter, > gurava ' local non-brahmin priest,' > dhanagara 'sheep-keeper.' > gava.lii 'milkaman,' > vaa.nii 'grocery merchant,' > Jaina, > ko.s.tii 'weaver,' > saa.lii, > citaarii 'painter (= picture artist?),'' > maa.lii 'flower-grower &/or seller,' > telii 'oilman,' > ra:ngaarii 'painter (of walls etc.). > > If Deva.n.na-bha.tta is an author from Maharashtra-Karnataka area, > his intended list should be largely similar, although his rajaka, > if intended in the sense 'washerman,' as distinct from 'one who > colors cloth (with indigo etc.)', is not there. In the other > sense, it could be covered by ra:ngaarii or citaarii . > > I would be interested in knowing any different explanations or > listings you get. > > a.a. > > > On 2013-10-05, at 12:12 PM, Patrick Olivelle wrote: > > Friends: > > Devan.n.abhat.t.a in his Smr.ticandrika- (Mysore edition, p. 40; > Gharpure ed. p. 18) commenting on the term s'ren.i says: > > s'ren.yo rajaka-dyas.t.a-das'ahi-naja-tayah. | > -- Dr.T.Ganesan Senior Researcher in Saivasiddhanta & Saiva Agama-s French Institute of Pondicherry UMIFRE 21 CNRS-MAEE 11, St. Louis Street P.B. 33 PONDICHERRY-605001 INDIA Tel: +91 - 413 - 22 31 643 E mail: ganesan at ifpindia.org Web: www.ifpindia.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From gruenen at sub.uni-goettingen.de Mon Oct 7 17:00:23 2013 From: gruenen at sub.uni-goettingen.de (Gruenendahl, Reinhold) Date: Mon, 07 Oct 13 17:00:23 +0000 Subject: [INDOLOGY] GRETIL update #423 Message-ID: <044C4CE033BD474EBE2ACACE8E4B1D943FC5AA32@UM-excdag-a02.um.gwdg.de> GRETIL is pleased to be able to report the following addition(s) to its collection: Asanga: Yogacarabhumi: Sarirarthagatha of the Cintamayibhumi http://gretil.sub.uni-goettingen.de/gretil.htm#AsYogCintSarir Tattvamimamsa http://gretil.sub.uni-goettingen.de/gretil.htm#Tattvamim __________________________________________________________________________ "GRETIL is intended as a cumulative register of the numerous download sites for electronic texts in Indian languages." (from the 2001 "mission statement") GRETIL - Goettingen Register of Electronic Texts in Indian Languages: http://gretil.sub.uni-goettingen.de/gretil.htm From christophe.vielle at uclouvain.be Wed Oct 9 12:37:29 2013 From: christophe.vielle at uclouvain.be (Christophe Vielle) Date: Wed, 09 Oct 13 14:37:29 +0200 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Ghent University Full-time Tenure Track research position in the field of India Studies Message-ID: <96B18BE2-406F-4DFD-9035-2CB922C51E02@uclouvain.be> Note that it is for working in the frame of the (cultural anthropology focused) "India Platform": http://www.india-platform.org/pages/contact http://www.flw.ugent.be/vakgroepen?departmentnumber=LW18 Not the (classical Indology focused) "Indian languages and cultures" department : http://www.southandeastasia.ugent.be/indology http://www.southandeastasia.ugent.be/node/53 http://www.ugent.be/en/news/vacancies/professorial-staff/field-of-india-studies Tenure Track position with a focus on scientific research in the field of India Studies Last application date: Oct 16, 2013 23:59 Contract: statutair Occupancy rate: 100% Vacancy Type: zap 1 full-time Tenure Track position (in the rank of lecturer) with a focus on scientific research funded by the Special Research Fund (BOF) in the field of India Studies At Ghent University 1 full-time position, with a starting rank of lecturer, will be available via the Tenure Track system with effect from 1 February 2014 within the framework of the activities of the India Platform. The position will be granted in the following field of study: India Studies This is a five-year temporary appointment in a Tenure Track system focussing primarily on research, with a teaching load limited to no more than 8 credits per semester on average over a period of 3 years. If the university board positively evaluates the performance of the person involved, the position may lead to a permanent position as senior lecturer, at which point the teaching load may be revised. At Ghent University, the possibility of promotion in the rank of lecturer and senior lecturer is linked to the achievement of predefined personalized goals. Profile - candidates are expected to Hold a PhD degree with doctoral thesis and have at least two years of post-doctoral experience by the commencement of employment; Have carried out extensive scientific research on India, proven by national and international peer reviewed publications; Have extensive field and research experience in the relevant geographic area; Possess the necessary didactic, organisational and communication skills for teaching at academic level; Active participation in international scientific conferences will be considered an advantage; Active participation in international (research) networks concerning the field of study will be considered an advantage; Having experience in coaching Ph.D. students will be considered an advantage. Applicants should measure up to the language proficiency as mentioned in article 91novies of the decree concerning the restructuring of higher education in Flanders. The administrative and teaching language used at Ghent University is Dutch, but in case one doesn?t speak Dutch, it is also possible to apply. In accordance with the decree, in case the candidate has an education assignment, one should have proficiency in the language in which one teaches. This means that the candidate needs to have proficiency on an ERK-level (European Reference for languages) C1. Even if a candidate with an education assignment, isn?t teaching a training component in Dutch, one should have proficiency in the Dutch language on an ERK-level B2. One should meet the requirements within 3 years after the recruitment or appointment. Ghent University is an equal opportunities institution. Applications from female researchers are therefore particularly welcome. The university board aims at a gender balance, in which a maximum of three fifths of the academic staff with a PhD degree is of the same gender. As long as this goal is not achieved at the level of the group of scientific disciplines involved, the university board will in principle, for positions within this group, give priority to candidates of the underrepresented gender but only in case of equal qualifications of the candidates. This priority is not automatic nor unconditional; the personal situation of each candidate always needs to be taken into account in the evaluation. Method of application Applications should be sent no later than October 16th 2013; by e-mail to mailto:recruitmentzap at ugent.be; using the specific application form for BOF Tenure Track positions. Proofs of competency (e.g., copies of the applicant?s diplomas) should also be sent at this stage, together with an explanation of the main research assignment of the scientific research proposed by the candidate during the Tenure Track position. This ?research plan? should comprise at least three and no more than five pages in English, together with an English summary on one page. Please send all the documents in 1 attachment. The candidate will receive an e-mail confirming receipt of the application. Further information concerning this vacancy and information on the India Platform can be requested from dr. Dirk De Craemer (Dirk.DeCraemer at UGent.be). The requisite application forms for BOF Tenure Track positions can be requested at Ghent University, Department of Personnel and Organisation, Sint-Pietersnieuwstraat 25, B-9000 Ghent, Belgium, or requested via telephone on. +32 (0) 9 264 31 29 or +32 (0) 9264 31 30. The application form is also available on the internet,https://www.ugent.be/nl/werken/aanwerving/formulieren/zap/bof-zap.doc/view ??????????????????? Christophe Vielle Louvain-la-Neuve -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From gruenen at sub.uni-goettingen.de Wed Oct 9 15:16:08 2013 From: gruenen at sub.uni-goettingen.de (Gruenendahl, Reinhold) Date: Wed, 09 Oct 13 15:16:08 +0000 Subject: [INDOLOGY] "GRETIL ALL" archive, 2013-10-09 Message-ID: <044C4CE033BD474EBE2ACACE8E4B1D943FC5AC93@UM-excdag-a02.um.gwdg.de> Dear list members, occasionally, newcomers to GRETIL ask how they can build up a personal archive of e-texts on their hard disk for convenient "global search" ("grep") etc. To save them the trouble of having to download hundreds of individual files, a zipped archive of the presently 1,578 UTF-8 (Unicode) files is now made available for download: http://gretil.sub.uni-goettingen.de/gretil/GRETIL_ALL_2013-10-09_UTF8_FOR_PERSONAL_USE_ONLY.zip Please, note that this archive is intended for personal use only. Regards, Reinhold Gr?nendahl From james.hartzell at gmail.com Wed Oct 9 15:35:21 2013 From: james.hartzell at gmail.com (James Hartzell) Date: Wed, 09 Oct 13 17:35:21 +0200 Subject: [INDOLOGY] "GRETIL ALL" archive, 2013-10-09 In-Reply-To: <044C4CE033BD474EBE2ACACE8E4B1D943FC5AC93@UM-excdag-a02.um.gwdg.de> Message-ID: Thanks! On Wed, Oct 9, 2013 at 5:16 PM, Gruenendahl, Reinhold < gruenen at sub.uni-goettingen.de> wrote: > Dear list members, > occasionally, newcomers to GRETIL ask how they can build up a personal > archive of e-texts on their hard disk for convenient "global search" > ("grep") etc. To save them the trouble of having to download hundreds of > individual files, a zipped archive of the presently 1,578 UTF-8 (Unicode) > files is now made available for download: > > > http://gretil.sub.uni-goettingen.de/gretil/GRETIL_ALL_2013-10-09_UTF8_FOR_PERSONAL_USE_ONLY.zip > > Please, note that this archive is intended for personal use only. > > Regards, > Reinhold Gr?nendahl > > > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > http://listinfo.indology.info > -- James Hartzell, PhD Center for Mind/Brain Sciences (CIMeC) The University of Trento, Italy -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From slaje at kabelmail.de Wed Oct 9 16:56:51 2013 From: slaje at kabelmail.de (Walter Slaje) Date: Wed, 09 Oct 13 18:56:51 +0200 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Fwd: ICPBS website In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Forwarded on behalf of Yasuhiro Sueki. Best, WS ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Yasuhiro SUEKI Date: 2013/10/9 Subject: ICPBS website To: walter.slaje at indologie.uni-halle.de, slaje at t-online.de Dear Prof. Dr. Walter Slaje, Our College has just launched a new website named ICPBS Digital Collections. You can find back issues of the Journal of the ICPBS, Concordances to the Buddhist Canon (2 items), Itokura, and the latest version 1.3 of the Bibliographical Sources for Buddhist Studies. Doctoral dissertations will be opened at this site in the future. We will be very happy if you would kindly inform your students on our new website. Address of the website: https://icabs.repo.nii.ac.jp/ Your kind attention will be highly appreciated. Sincerely Yours, Yasuhiro Sueki Chief Librarian International College for Postgraduate Studies Library (ICPBS Library) 2-8-9 Kasuga, Bunkyo-ku, Tokyo 112-0003, Japan Phone: 03-5981-5277 Fax: 03-5981-5284 email: y-sueki at icabs.ac.jp -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From christophe.vielle at uclouvain.be Thu Oct 10 06:51:30 2013 From: christophe.vielle at uclouvain.be (Christophe Vielle) Date: Thu, 10 Oct 13 08:51:30 +0200 Subject: [INDOLOGY] "GRETIL ALL" archive, 2013-10-09 In-Reply-To: <1381342958.1880.13.camel@ubu-desktop> Message-ID: For globally searching the impressive GRETIL mass of e-texts kindly provided to us by Reinhold Gr?nendahl for personal use, a student of mine recommends the Jedit software (about which, see below). Best wishes, Christophe Vielle D?but du message r?exp?di? : Pour le moteur de recherche, on peut simplement utiliser l'?diteur (multi-plateforme et opensource) Jedit [*], facile ? trouver et ? installer. Il permet la recherche dans un dossier complet. Le r?sultat se pr?sente avec nombre d'occurrences, nom du fichier, num?ro de la ligne, kwik (key word in context). Ci-joint en image la recherche du mot "upani?ad" dans tout le corpus de 404 millions de caract?res, et cela prend environ une minute. C'est moins rapide qu'en Perl (le langage fait pour la recherche documentaire, extr?mement rapide), mais utilisable. * About Jedit, Wujastyk wrote on Indology list in October 2002: The following may not be the full answer, but colleagues tell me that Jedit (from www.jedit.com) is very good at suporting Unicode. My friend Gerhard Brey has used Jedit successfully to create XML files containing Unicode text of both Roman and Arabic materials. He tells me that Jedit is better than Yudit as a Unicode editor. I've installed Jedit under Windows 2000, just to play with - it was very easy indeed. Being a Java program, Jedit will run on any platform, Mac, Linux, etc., and behave in essentially the same way. If you load a Unicode font (there are now quite a few around) as the default screen font, you get a nice system, and it's portable and free. Jedit can be used for writing TeX files, or anything else. It has built-in syntax highlighting for TeX and many other structured languages such as XML, HTML, programming languages, etc. And it's extensible, and apparently has quite a bit of external support from an enthusiastic community. ??????????????????? Christophe Vielle Louvain-la-Neuve -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Screenshot-HyperSearch_Results.png Type: image/png Size: 152904 bytes Desc: not available URL: From wujastyk at gmail.com Thu Oct 10 13:53:37 2013 From: wujastyk at gmail.com (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Thu, 10 Oct 13 15:53:37 +0200 Subject: [INDOLOGY] "GRETIL ALL" archive, 2013-10-09 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: ?Jedit is now at - http://www.jedit.org/ (not .com). On 10 October 2013 08:51, Christophe Vielle wrote: > * About Jedit, Wujastyk wrote on Indology list in October 2002: > > The following may not be the full answer, but colleagues tell me that > Jedit (from www.jedit.com) is very good at suporting Unicode. My friend > ?? > Gerhard Breyhas used Jedit successfully to create XML files containing > Unicode text of both Roman and Arabic materials. He tells me that Jedit > is better than Yudit as a Unicode editor. > ?...? > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From wujastyk at gmail.com Thu Oct 10 13:54:25 2013 From: wujastyk at gmail.com (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Thu, 10 Oct 13 15:54:25 +0200 Subject: [INDOLOGY] "GRETIL ALL" archive, 2013-10-09 In-Reply-To: <044C4CE033BD474EBE2ACACE8E4B1D943FC5AC93@UM-excdag-a02.um.gwdg.de> Message-ID: This is extremely helpful, Reinhold. Thank you! Dominik -- Dr Dominik Wujastyk Department of South Asia, Tibetan and Buddhist Studies , University of Vienna, Spitalgasse 2-4, Courtyard 2, Entrance 2.1 1090 Vienna, Austria and Adjunct Professor, Division of Health and Humanities, St. John's Research Institute, Bangalore, India. Project | home page| HSSA | PGP On 9 October 2013 17:16, Gruenendahl, Reinhold < gruenen at sub.uni-goettingen.de> wrote: > Dear list members, > occasionally, newcomers to GRETIL ask how they can build up a personal > archive of e-texts on their hard disk for convenient "global search" > ("grep") etc. To save them the trouble of having to download hundreds of > individual files, a zipped archive of the presently 1,578 UTF-8 (Unicode) > files is now made available for download: > > > http://gretil.sub.uni-goettingen.de/gretil/GRETIL_ALL_2013-10-09_UTF8_FOR_PERSONAL_USE_ONLY.zip > > Please, note that this archive is intended for personal use only. > > Regards, > Reinhold Gr?nendahl > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From csaba_dezso at yahoo.co.uk Fri Oct 11 11:45:37 2013 From: csaba_dezso at yahoo.co.uk (Csaba Dezso) Date: Fri, 11 Oct 13 13:45:37 +0200 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Kane's ed of Kadambari, Purvabhaga In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <5257E4E1.6010507@yahoo.co.uk> Dear colleagues, does anyone happen to have a pdf of Kane's edition of Kaadambarii Puurvabhaaga? The link on archive.org unfortunately leads to a pdf of the Uttarabhaaga. Apparently Kane's Puurvabhaaga was published in two parts, the first corresponding to pp. 1?124 of Petersen's ed., and the second to pp. 124?237 of the same. I am especially interested in the second one. Many thanks, Csaba Dezso Department of Indo-European Linguistics, ELTE, Budapest From rrocher at sas.upenn.edu Fri Oct 11 16:22:55 2013 From: rrocher at sas.upenn.edu (Rosane Rocher) Date: Fri, 11 Oct 13 12:22:55 -0400 Subject: [INDOLOGY] University of Pennsylvania: Mellon Post-Doctoral Fellowship in South Asian Literatures In-Reply-To: <52580ED0.5060007@sas.upenn.edu> Message-ID: <525825DF.1050205@sas.upenn.edu> MELLON POSTDOCTORAL TEACHING FELLOWSHIP In the Humanities and Humanistic Social Sciences 2014-2016 The School of Arts and Sciences invites applicants for two two-year postdoctoral teaching fellowships in the humanities and humanistic social sciences. Fellows will teach one course per term. Eligibility is limited to applicants who will have received their Ph.D. within two years prior to the time they begin their fellowship at Penn (August, 2012 or later). $52,451 stipend. Application deadline: December 1, 2013. Eligible fields for the 2014-16 competition (for fellowships that begin Fall 2014) include: ? South Asian classical or vernacular literatures, region and period open. Competence in at least two South Asian languages is preferred. Apply at: http://apply.interfolio.com/23036 For guidelines see the School of Arts and Sciences website [http:www.sas.upenn.edu/deans-office/Mellon]. The University of Pennsylvania is an affirmative action/equal opportunity employer; women and minority candidates are strongly encouraged to apply. Jody Chavez Managing Director South Asia Studies Department and the South Asia Center 820 Williams Hall 255 S. 36th Street Philadelphia, PA 19104 Phone: 215-898-8816 Fax: 215-573-2138 From dr.rupalimokashi at gmail.com Sat Oct 12 01:46:35 2013 From: dr.rupalimokashi at gmail.com (Dr. Rupali Mokashi) Date: Sat, 12 Oct 13 07:16:35 +0530 Subject: [INDOLOGY] asd curse Message-ID: Hi I am Rupali Mokashi. This is my firat post in the group. I want to know the extent of ass curse marker stones in malwa, orissa and vijayanagara. where did this originate from? i have worked on theass cursre stones in maharashtra and discovered few new marker stones in and near Mumbai Rupali Mokashi -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From christophe.vielle at uclouvain.be Sun Oct 13 14:21:16 2013 From: christophe.vielle at uclouvain.be (Christophe Vielle) Date: Sun, 13 Oct 13 16:21:16 +0200 Subject: =?utf-8?Q?[INDOLOGY]_Fwd:_Saying_=E2=80=9CNO!=E2=80=9D_to_the_planned_abolishment_of_the_subject_of_Art_History_of_South_Asia_at_the_Freie_Universit=C3=A4t_Berlin?= Message-ID: Petition from Studierende der Kunstgeschichte S?dasiens Berlin, Germany https://www.change.org/en-GB/Petitionen/an-das-pr%C3%A4sidium-der-freien-universit%C3%A4t-berlin-to-the-executive-committee-of-the-freie-universit%C3%A4t-berlin-nein-zur-streichung-der-s%C3%BCdasiatischen-kunstgeschichte-saying-no-to-the-planned-abolishment-of-the-subject-of-art-history-of-south-asia Open letter to the Executive Committee of the Freie Universit?t Berlin in support of the retention of the subject of Art History of South Asia at the Freie Universit?t Berlin. Saying ?NO!? to the planned abolishment of the subject of Art History of South Asia at the Freie Universit?t Berlin! It is with grave concern that we have learned of the planned closure of the Department of South Asian Art History at the Institute of Art History of the Freie Universit?t Berlin. The subject Art History of South Asia / Indian Art History is concerned with the art and architecture of South Asia, Southeast Asia, and Central Asia. As such, it encompasses to the greatest possible extent all epochs from pre-history to modern times. The subject also includes the cultural and religious history of the above-mentioned regions. Abolishing the subject of Art History of South Asia would mean that the Freie Universit?t Berlin would relinquish the last remaining place of study of its kind at any German university. We call upon the Freie Universit?t Berlin to enforce the Developmental and Structural Plan of April 2004, which continues to remain in force, and therefore to retain the Department of South Asian Art History / Indian Art History. The art history of South Asia is internationally renowned and has led many students and doctoral candidates, both from Germany and abroad, to choose the Freie Universit?t as their place of study. Within the framework of joint projects, the Department represents a central facility and an important resource for numerous scholars from Germany and from abroad. This exchange has also led to many joint publications, book editions, and conferences. Alumni of the Department today work in esteemed institutions all over the world. Moreover, the Department of South Asian Art History has established wide-ranging international relations, which not only include India, a rising economic power with an extremely rich cultural and artistic landscape, but also western China, a region straddling the Silk Road which has been strongly influenced by Indian art and culture. The Center for Jaina Studies, founded in 2011, which continues an over hundred year-old tradition of conducting research on Jainism in Germany, has established numerous contacts to Jaina organizations across the world and has become so well-known as a center of research that Indian Jaina institutions hold important events such as award presentation ceremonies here. By closing the Department of South Asian Art History, the Freie Universit?t Berlin runs the risk of losing a crucial element of its international outreach. The Humboldt Forum which is currently being realized in the heart of Berlin is slated to become a unique resource for the dissemination of non-European collections of the Berlin State Museums. This new facility represents a commitment, in the spirit of von Humboldt, to conduct and encourage scientific research and discussion on the displayed objects. The Forum?s name already recalls the work of the brothers Alexander and Wilhelm von Humboldt, and with it the illustrious history of scientific research in Germany and Berlin. As of now, the Museum of Asian Art still employs research staff. However, if the subject of Art History of South Asia is abolished, training of young, qualified persons will cease, putting one of the most outstanding collections of Indo-Asian art in the world at the risk of being degraded to mere display objects. Due to the reasons stated above, we insistently demand compliance with the Developmental and Structural Plan of 2004 and the preservation of the last facility of its kind for conducting university-based research on South Asian art in Germany. We kindly ask for your support! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dr.rupalimokashi at gmail.com Sun Oct 13 15:47:51 2013 From: dr.rupalimokashi at gmail.com (Dr. Rupali Mokashi) Date: Sun, 13 Oct 13 21:17:51 +0530 Subject: [INDOLOGY] INDOLOGY Digest, Vol 9, Issue 20 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: ?I had read earlier a thread of discussion between Arlo Griffiths, Whitney regarding the ass curse. May be they can throw light on this subject. Rupali Mokashi On Oct 12, 2013 9:36 PM, wrote: > Send INDOLOGY mailing list submissions to > indology at list.indology.info > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > > http://list.indology.info/mailman/listinfo/indology_list.indology.info > > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > indology-request at list.indology.info > > You can reach the person managing the list at > indology-owner at list.indology.info > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of INDOLOGY digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. University of Pennsylvania: Mellon Post-Doctoral Fellowship > in South Asian Literatures (Rosane Rocher) > 2. asd curse (Dr. Rupali Mokashi) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Fri, 11 Oct 2013 12:22:55 -0400 > From: Rosane Rocher > To: indology at list.indology.info > Subject: [INDOLOGY] University of Pennsylvania: Mellon Post-Doctoral > Fellowship in South Asian Literatures > Message-ID: <525825DF.1050205 at sas.upenn.edu> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed > > MELLON POSTDOCTORAL TEACHING FELLOWSHIP In the Humanities and Humanistic > Social Sciences 2014-2016 > > The School of Arts and Sciences invites applicants for two two-year > postdoctoral teaching fellowships in the humanities and humanistic > social sciences. Fellows will teach one course per term. Eligibility is > limited to applicants who will have received their Ph.D. within two > years prior to the time they begin their fellowship at Penn (August, > 2012 or later). $52,451 stipend. Application deadline: December 1, 2013. > Eligible fields for the 2014-16 competition (for fellowships that begin > Fall 2014) include: ? South Asian classical or vernacular literatures, > region and period open. Competence in at least two South Asian languages > is preferred. > Apply at: http://apply.interfolio.com/23036 For guidelines see the > School of Arts and Sciences website > [http:www.sas.upenn.edu/deans-office/Mellon]. > The University of Pennsylvania is an affirmative action/equal > opportunity employer; women and minority candidates are strongly > encouraged to apply. > > Jody Chavez Managing Director South Asia Studies Department and the > South Asia Center > 820 Williams Hall 255 S. 36th Street Philadelphia, PA 19104 Phone: > 215-898-8816 Fax: 215-573-2138 > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Sat, 12 Oct 2013 07:16:35 +0530 > From: "Dr. Rupali Mokashi" > To: indology at list.indology.info > Subject: [INDOLOGY] asd curse > Message-ID: > 9fufODX2CJcQ0t_V2kmPyP6VfJAhtiXg at mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > Hi I am Rupali Mokashi. This is my firat post in the group. I want to know > the extent of ass curse marker stones in malwa, orissa and vijayanagara. > where did this originate from? > i have worked on theass cursre stones in maharashtra and discovered few new > marker stones in and near Mumbai > Rupali Mokashi > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mrinalkaul81 at gmail.com Sun Oct 13 17:44:37 2013 From: mrinalkaul81 at gmail.com (Mrinal Kaul) Date: Sun, 13 Oct 13 19:44:37 +0200 Subject: =?utf-8?Q?[INDOLOGY]_Meaning_and_Explanation_of_'ch=C4=81y=C4=81puru=E1=B9=A3a'?= Message-ID: Dear Indologists, I have been trying to find out the meaning of 'ch?y?puru?a' in the context of T?ntric texts. Monier Williams simply says 'Puru?a in the form of a shadow' and Apte does not mention it. How do I understand the expressions like ch?y?puru?opade?avidbhi? (Tantr?loka-viveka-3.5ab) or ch?y?puru?opade?apari??lanena (??varapratyabhij??-viv?ti-vimar?in?, Vol.1, p. 159) or ch?y?puru?apar?k??y?mityarth?t (Svacchandatantra-udyota 7.267)? Who are considered to be the learned people in the teachings of ch?y?puru?a (ch?y?puru?a-vid) ? I should be grateful if someone can guide me to the right sources or throw some light on 'ch?y?puru?a'. You can also write to me off-list. Thanks very much in advance. Best wishes. Mrinal Kaul -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Michael.Slouber at wwu.edu Sun Oct 13 18:18:10 2013 From: Michael.Slouber at wwu.edu (Michael Slouber) Date: Sun, 13 Oct 13 18:18:10 +0000 Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_[INDOLOGY]_Meaning_and_Explanation_of_'ch=C4=81y=C4=81puru=E1=B9=A3a'?= In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <9A223982-9E8B-4584-AD93-86123A16DA25@wwu.edu> Dear Mrinal, I understand 'ch?y?puru?a' to mean just what it sounds like: the shadow person. Numerous tantric and tantric-derived texts discuss prognostications based on watching subtle changes in one's shadow on a clear and sunny day. The IFP's paper transcripts include a ch?y?puru?alak?a?a (#T0620), which is available from Muktabodha's portal and might be helpful. Consider also this clear passage from the Yogam?rgaprak??ik? of Yugalad?sa (typed by P?ter-D?niel Sz?nt?): [atha ch?y?puru?asya vidh?nam] ?uddh?tape svadehasya pratibimba? vilokayet | bh?mau d???v? tath? khe ca prat?kop?san?? caret || 9 || yog? samabhyasen nitya? svaprat?ka? yath?vidhi | tena vij??yate sarva? l?bh?l?bhau bhav?bhavau || 10 || ?ira? chinna? tath? kampas tad? m?tyur bhaved dhruvam | yad? na d??yate b?hur bhr?t?h?nis tu j?yate || 11 || samast?ni ca hy a?g?ni svaprat?kena pa?yati | tat sarva? ca vij?n?y?t tasya h?nir na sa??aya? || 12 || ya? karoti sad?bhy?sa? gupt?c?re?a m?nu?a? | ??atva? n?tra sa?deha? ?a?m?sena ca labhyate || 13 || viv?he gamane caiva k?le ca mara?e tath? | ava?yam eva kartavya? yogibhis tadup?sanam || 14 || This appears to be similar to the techniques found in early Tantric texts such as Svacchanda Tantra 7.268, etc. So I would understand ch?y?puru?opade?apari??lanena to be one who is skilled in interpreting the communications of the shadow person. Hope this helps, Michael ?? Michael Slouber Visiting Assistant Professor of South Asia Department of Liberal Studies Western Washington University On Oct 13, 2013, at 10:44 AM, Mrinal Kaul wrote: > Dear Indologists, > > I have been trying to find out the meaning of 'ch?y?puru?a' in the context of T?ntric texts. Monier Williams simply says 'Puru?a in the form of a shadow' and Apte does not mention it. How do I understand the expressions like ch?y?puru?opade?avidbhi? (Tantr?loka-viveka-3.5ab) or ch?y?puru?opade?apari??lanena (??varapratyabhij??-viv?ti-vimar?in?, Vol.1, p. 159) or ch?y?puru?apar?k??y?mityarth?t (Svacchandatantra-udyota 7.267)? Who are considered to be the learned people in the teachings of ch?y?puru?a (ch?y?puru?a-vid) ? I should be grateful if someone can guide me to the right sources or throw some light on 'ch?y?puru?a'. You can also write to me off-list. Thanks very much in advance. > > Best wishes. > > Mrinal Kaul > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > http://listinfo.indology.info From jpo at uts.cc.utexas.edu Sun Oct 13 19:09:31 2013 From: jpo at uts.cc.utexas.edu (Patrick Olivelle) Date: Sun, 13 Oct 13 14:09:31 -0500 Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_[INDOLOGY]_Meaning_and_Explanation_of_'ch=C4=81y=C4=81puru=E1=B9=A3a'?= In-Reply-To: <9A223982-9E8B-4584-AD93-86123A16DA25@wwu.edu> Message-ID: This may have nothing to do with the Tantric use of the term, but ch?y?puru?a occurs as a measurement, often related to the sundial, in Kau?ilya's Artha??stra: 1.19.6-7; 2.20.10, 39 (have notes to these). And on the ability to eliminate one's shadow: 14.3.5-15. The length of a ch?y?puru?a appears to be 12 a?gulas. Patrick On Oct 13, 2013, at 1:18 PM, Michael Slouber wrote: > Dear Mrinal, > > I understand 'ch?y?puru?a' to mean just what it sounds like: the shadow person. Numerous tantric and tantric-derived texts discuss prognostications based on watching subtle changes in one's shadow on a clear and sunny day. The IFP's paper transcripts include a ch?y?puru?alak?a?a (#T0620), which is available from Muktabodha's portal and might be helpful. Consider also this clear passage from the Yogam?rgaprak??ik? of Yugalad?sa (typed by P?ter-D?niel Sz?nt?): > > [atha ch?y?puru?asya vidh?nam] > > ?uddh?tape svadehasya pratibimba? vilokayet | > bh?mau d???v? tath? khe ca prat?kop?san?? caret || 9 || > yog? samabhyasen nitya? svaprat?ka? yath?vidhi | > tena vij??yate sarva? l?bh?l?bhau bhav?bhavau || 10 || > ?ira? chinna? tath? kampas tad? m?tyur bhaved dhruvam | > yad? na d??yate b?hur bhr?t?h?nis tu j?yate || 11 || > samast?ni ca hy a?g?ni svaprat?kena pa?yati | > tat sarva? ca vij?n?y?t tasya h?nir na sa??aya? || 12 || > ya? karoti sad?bhy?sa? gupt?c?re?a m?nu?a? | > ??atva? n?tra sa?deha? ?a?m?sena ca labhyate || 13 || > viv?he gamane caiva k?le ca mara?e tath? | > ava?yam eva kartavya? yogibhis tadup?sanam || 14 || > > This appears to be similar to the techniques found in early Tantric texts such as Svacchanda Tantra 7.268, etc. So I would understand ch?y?puru?opade?apari??lanena to be one who is skilled in interpreting the communications of the shadow person. > > Hope this helps, > > Michael > > ?? > Michael Slouber > Visiting Assistant Professor of South Asia > Department of Liberal Studies > Western Washington University > > On Oct 13, 2013, at 10:44 AM, Mrinal Kaul wrote: > >> Dear Indologists, >> >> I have been trying to find out the meaning of 'ch?y?puru?a' in the context of T?ntric texts. Monier Williams simply says 'Puru?a in the form of a shadow' and Apte does not mention it. How do I understand the expressions like ch?y?puru?opade?avidbhi? (Tantr?loka-viveka-3.5ab) or ch?y?puru?opade?apari??lanena (??varapratyabhij??-viv?ti-vimar?in?, Vol.1, p. 159) or ch?y?puru?apar?k??y?mityarth?t (Svacchandatantra-udyota 7.267)? Who are considered to be the learned people in the teachings of ch?y?puru?a (ch?y?puru?a-vid) ? I should be grateful if someone can guide me to the right sources or throw some light on 'ch?y?puru?a'. You can also write to me off-list. Thanks very much in advance. >> >> Best wishes. >> >> Mrinal Kaul >> _______________________________________________ >> INDOLOGY mailing list >> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info >> http://listinfo.indology.info > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > http://listinfo.indology.info From alanus1216 at yahoo.com Mon Oct 14 00:12:55 2013 From: alanus1216 at yahoo.com (Allen Thrasher) Date: Sun, 13 Oct 13 17:12:55 -0700 Subject: [INDOLOGY] (no subject) Message-ID: <1381709575.62938.YahooMailNeo@web163002.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> I have a vague memory of seeing books,?maybe both in?Hindi?and English, on the chayapurusa, from the popular publishers in Dariba Kalan in Delhi, that seemed to be about some form of hypnotism or creating by visualization?a being that would act for one's purposes.? Unfortunately I didn't purchase any such.? The only book with the word in the title that I find on WorldCat is Rajesa Diksita, "Devi?, devata?, Hanuma?na, cha?ya?purus?a, evam? Yaks?in?i?-Bhairava siddhi ke prayoga," Dilli? : Deha?ti? Pustaka Bhan?d?a?ra, [1974].? WorldCat seems to have a new format which I haven't had time to decipher and I am not clear whether there is actually a copy of this book in any library or not.? The fact that the chayapurusa is something in or over which one may obtain siddhi makes me that it is not just a form of divination. ? Allen -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From nivi71r at yahoo.co.in Mon Oct 14 04:53:36 2013 From: nivi71r at yahoo.co.in (Nivedita Rout) Date: Mon, 14 Oct 13 12:53:36 +0800 Subject: =?utf-8?Q?[INDOLOGY]_Explanation_of_"ch=C4=81y=C4=81puru=E1=B9=A3a"?= In-Reply-To: <1381725585.89646.YahooMailNeo@web193106.mail.sg3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1381726416.43105.YahooMailNeo@web193103.mail.sg3.yahoo.com> Chaayaapuru.sa is a yogic concept, meditation and practice. "siva is visualised as "chaayaapuru.sa" by "saiva yogins to become master of living beings, to become "Siva himself, to become knower of past, present and future (Svarodaya tantra, 353-56). This Svarodaya tantra also describes the results, those depend upon the colors of chaayaapuru.sa that the "saiva yogin visualises in his meditation i.e. if one sees "Siva as dark in colour he should know his age is of mere 6 months, if it is yellow then disease comes. For detail see (Svarodaya, 357-61). Many verses of this Svarodayatantra is found in the Brahmayaamala tantra and it seems this tantra was a part of Brahamayaamalatantra as described by Narapati (12th century?) in his text "Jayacarayaa" on astrology. The Ni"svaasottarasuutra also refers about chaayaapuru.sa as "siva and meditation upon him so it informs us about 4 types of dhyaanas such as tattvadhyaana, chaayaadhyaana, gho.sadhyaana & lak.syadhyaana. see 5.27. The Kubjikaa tantra also referes to it in its kaalaprakara.na. 23.16-43.? The 28th chapter of "Siva Puraa.na gives a complete description of this yogic mystic meditation and its results. The earliest reference of chaayapuru.sa is in the Kau.satiki Upani.sad, 2.1.11-16. Regards, Nibedita On , Mrinal Kaul wrote: Dear Indologists, I have been trying to find out the meaning of ch?y?puru?a in the context of T?ntric texts. Monier Williams simply says 'Puru?a in the form of a shadow' and Apte does not have it. How do I understand the expressions like ch?y?puru?opade?avidbhi? (Tantr?loka-viveka-3.5ab) or ch?y?puru?opade?apari??lanena (??varapratyabhij??-viv?ti-vimar?in?, Vol.1, p. 159) or ch?y?puru?apar?k??y?mityarth?t (Svacchandatantra-udyota 7.267)? Who are considered to be the learned people in the teachings of ch?y?puru?a (ch?y?puru?a-vid) ? I should be grateful if someone can guide me to the right sources or throw some light on ch?y?puru?a. You can also write to me off-list. Best wishes. Mrinal Kaul -- ??????????????? ?????? ???????? ??????????? (?.??.) --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "???????????????????" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to bvparishat+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to bvparishat at googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/bvparishat. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dbhattacharya200498 at yahoo.com Mon Oct 14 05:30:15 2013 From: dbhattacharya200498 at yahoo.com (Dipak Bhattacharya) Date: Mon, 14 Oct 13 13:30:15 +0800 Subject: [INDOLOGY] (no subject) Message-ID: <1381728615.60394.YahooMailNeo@web193501.mail.sg3.yahoo.com> I do not know if it will profitably add to the conversation but there is a story with a moral about Ch?y?puru?a current in Varanasi. A banker?(name will not be given) of Varanasi had assumed the form of or had made a Tantric assume the form of a Ch?y?puru?a to lure away the widow of the daughter- in-law of the Diwan of a Central-South Indian state around the year 1900. The widow was killed after she had been made to surrender her jewellery.?After the income from the property had been invested in his bank by the perpetrator of the crime the bank failed. Everything the criminal had went away with the bank. He died of heart attack. A thin reflection of Alexandre Dumas? DB -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From christellebarois at wanadoo.fr Mon Oct 14 06:07:08 2013 From: christellebarois at wanadoo.fr (=?utf-8?Q?Christ=C3=A8le_Barois?=) Date: Mon, 14 Oct 13 08:07:08 +0200 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Article/request Message-ID: <894D8359A4EE49329DBB1BBF1407B8A8@PCdeChristle> Dear members of the list, I should be grateful if someone could send me a copy of John Brockington's article : "The Puranas - Priestly or Popular ?" Haryana Sahitya Akademi Journal of Indological Studies 2, 1987, p. 122-134. I thank you very much in advance, Christ?le Barois -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From palaniappa at aol.com Mon Oct 14 06:47:40 2013 From: palaniappa at aol.com (palaniappa at aol.com) Date: Mon, 14 Oct 13 02:47:40 -0400 Subject: [INDOLOGY] query: 18 ;sre.nii jaatis Message-ID: <8D096C06957BB14-1C64-293DC@webmail-m148.sysops.aol.com> We should keep in mind that the list of Tamil groups did not indicate caste groups always. And their indicated status was not true for earlier historical period. For instance, pa?aiya? was not an untouchable in the 11th century. Occa? (should be really ?cca? aka uvacca?) were not Dalits. In fact, earlier, uvacca? represented titles of those who played drums in the temples, which included brahmins too. Pa??i could indicate va??iyar. Valaiya? could represent those belonging to the valaiyar caste, who hunt small game and today call themselves Muthurajas. P??a? was a bard long before he was a tailor. Regards, Palaniappan -----Original Message----- From: Whitney Cox To: Ashok Aklujkar Cc: Indology List Sent: Sun, Oct 6, 2013 2:56 pm Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] query: 18 ;sre.nii jaatis Dear all, In an earlier off-list message to Patrick, I suggested that the h?najataya? in question might have been part of the 'left-hand' communities in the far South, sometimes reckoned as eighteen in number. In the light of Ashok and Madhav's interesting comments, I would like to revise that suggestion, and instead propose that we might see here a reflex of another set of South-Indian caste-communities referred to in Tamil as the ku?imakka?, perhaps best rendered 'people of the village'. The entry s.v. in the Madras Tamil Lexicon reads (with my transliteration and bracketed translations): ku?imakka?, n.< id. +. 1. Sub-castes rendering service in a village, being 18 innumber, viz.,va???n? [washerman], n?vitan?[barber], kuyavan? [potter], ta???n? [goldsmith], kan?n??n?[brazier], kar?r?accan? [mason], kollan? [blacksmith], taccan?[carpenter], e??eyv??ikan? [oil merchant], uppuv??ikan?[salt merchant], ilaiv??ikan? [betel merchant], pa??i[watchman], p?m?laikk?ran? [garland maker], par?aiyan? [Dalit,pariah], k?vilku?iy?n? [conch-blower], occan? [? another Dalitcommunity], valaiyan? [fisherman], p??an? [tailor]. Note that this list begins with washermen, just like Deva??abha??a's. I recall reading somewhere--though I may be misremembering--that there is some suggestion that D. hailed from the Dravidian south, thus possibly making this list a good potential set of parallels to the Sm?ticandrik?. Of course, sets of eighteen are very common, and the particular contents of any such list liable to vary according to time, place, and circumstances. Best, Whitney On Sun, Oct 6, 2013 at 2:14 PM, Ashok Aklujkar wrote: I earlier wrote: "The listed business communities could have had distinctive turbans or headdresses.< Another possibility is that all of them or almost all of them customarily wore some kind of turban or head covering (not necessarily a distinctive one for each of them). The people mentioned are only *relatively* hiina or 'lower, inferior' They are not in the lowest stratum.Having a headdress could have served to distinguish them. It is very common in the listed communities even today in India to have a cap or turban on the head. a.a. _______________________________________________ INDOLOGY mailing list INDOLOGY at list.indology.info http://listinfo.indology.info _______________________________________________ INDOLOGY mailing list INDOLOGY at list.indology.info http://listinfo.indology.info -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From johannes.schneider at lrz.uni-muenchen.de Mon Oct 14 07:20:33 2013 From: johannes.schneider at lrz.uni-muenchen.de (Johannes Schneider) Date: Mon, 14 Oct 13 09:20:33 +0200 Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_[INDOLOGY]_Meaning_and_Explanation_of_'ch=C4=81y=C4=81puru=E1=B9=A3a'?= In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <525B9B41.1060201@mail.lrz-muenchen.de> For Hindu, Buddhist and Jain texts on this subject please have a look at Shingo Einoo, The signs of death and their contexts, in Shoun Hino and Toshihiro Wada (eds.), Three mountains and sebven rivers, Delhi 2004, pp. 871-886. There is also a method of divination based on the after-image after starring at one's shadow and closing the eyes then. Cf. my edition of Vagisvarakirti's Mrtyuvancanopadesa (ed. Wien 2010), chapter I, 26-33 and 93 seqq., with some more parallels. J. S. -- PD Dr. Johannes Schneider Bayerische Akademie der Wissenschaften Kommission f?r zentral- und ostasiatische Studien Alfons-Goppel-Str. 11 D-80539 M?nchen Tel. 0 89 / 23 03 11 27 8 From arlogriffiths at hotmail.com Mon Oct 14 08:24:55 2013 From: arlogriffiths at hotmail.com (Arlo Griffiths) Date: Mon, 14 Oct 13 08:24:55 +0000 Subject: =?utf-8?Q?[INDOLOGY]_Dharmakavidhi_and_J=C4=ABvad=C4=81na?= Message-ID: Dear colleagues, The B?haspatism?ti contains the interesting short text entitled Dharmakavidhi pasted below. If I am not overlooking anything, Kane has not discussed it in Hist. of Dharma??stra. Does anyhone happen to know parallels for it, does anybody have a suggestion on what the significance of the suffix -ka might be here, and is there any convincing way to estimate the date of this little text (presuming that the B?haspatism?ti is a composite text)? Could anyone supply a pdf of K.V. Rangaswami Aiyangar's volume Gaekwad Oriental Series, 85 (B?haspatism?ti Reconstructed, 1941)? On a related note, I assume that j?vad?n?dibhir mantrai? here refers to the Vedic mantra j?vad?nava stha etc. So this passage is not directly relevant to my underlying problem, the meaning of j?vad?na in a 5th c. inscription: sources such the Ratnam?l?vad?na 4.112 and the Vi??udharmottarapur??a 1.93.10 seem to suggest that this can be an equivalent of jalad?na (itself, presumably, an equivalent of the Mah?d?na jaladhenu) or else that it literally means a gift of life (as at MBh 12.149.108 and, somewhat differently, at Brahm???apur??a 2.16.53). I should much appreciate references to or discussions of j?vad?na in the primary of and secondary literature on Dharma??stra. Thank you. Arlo Griffiths EFEO/Jakarta --------------- B?haspatism?ti [1.8.12 Dharmakavidhi?] pattradvaye lekhan?yau dharm?dharmau sit?sitau /
j?vad?n?dibhir mantrai? g?yatry?dyai? ca s?mabhi? // Brh_1,8.82 //
?mantrya p?jayed gandhai? kusumai? ca sit?sitai? /
abhyuk?ya pa?cagavyena m?tpi???ntaritau tata? // Brh_1,8.83 //
samau k?tv? tu tau kumbhe sth?pyau c?nupalak?itau /
tata? kumbh?t pi??am eka? prag?h??t?vilambita? // Brh_1,8.84 //
dharme g?h?te ?uddha? sy?t sa p?jya? ca par?k?akai? /
adharme sa?g?h?te tu da??yo nirv?sya eva v? [p.93] // Brh_1,8.85 //
likhed bh?rjapa?e v?pi dharm?dharmau sit?sitau /
abhyuk?ya pa?cagavyena gandham?lyai? samarcayet // Brh_1,8.86 //
sitapu?pas tu dharma? sy?d adharmo 'sitapu?padh?t /
eva? vidh?yopalipya pi??ayos t?ni dh?payet // Brh_1,8.87 //
gomayena m?d? v?pi pi??au k?ryau samau tata? /
m?dbh??ake 'nupahate sth?pyau c?nupalak?itau // Brh_1,8.88 //
upalipte ?ucau de?e devabr?hma?asa?nidhau /
samarcayet tato dev?n lokap?l??? ca p?rvavat // Brh_1,8.89 //
dharm?v?hanap?rva? tu pratij??pattraka? likhet /
yadi p?pavimukto 'ha? dharma? c?y?tu me kare // Brh_1,8.90 //
abhi?astas tayo? caika? prag?h??t?vilambita? /
dharme g?h?te ?uddhi? sy?d adharme tu sa h?yate // Brh_1,8.91 //
eva? vic?rayan r?j? dharm?rth?bhy?? na h?yate // Brh_1,8.92 //
-------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From franceschini.marco at fastwebnet.it Mon Oct 14 11:49:36 2013 From: franceschini.marco at fastwebnet.it (Marco Franceschini) Date: Mon, 14 Oct 13 12:49:36 +0100 Subject: =?utf-8?Q?[INDOLOGY]_Sukum=C4=81ra's_K=E1=B9=9B=E1=B9=A3=E1=B9=87avil=C4=81sa_with_R=C4=81map=C4=81=E1=B9=87iv=C4=81da's_Vil=C4=81sin=C4=AB_commentary?= Message-ID: <42076017-7C6C-4343-840F-FF0ECEDAE5D1@fastwebnet.it> Dear Collegues, does anyone happen to have a pdf of Sukum?ra's K???avil?sa with the commentary called Vil?sin? by R?map??iv?da? I'm trying to identify an incomplete grantha manuscript: it seems to contain parts of that work, but to be sure I need to check the manuscript against the edition. Thank you very much in advance. Best wishes, Marco Franceschini ---------------------- PhD, Research Fellow University of Bologna Department of Linguistics and Oriental Studies via Zamboni 33 - 40126 Bologna - Italy marco.franceschini3 at unibo.it --- -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From francois.voegeli at gmail.com Mon Oct 14 11:55:55 2013 From: francois.voegeli at gmail.com (Francois Voegeli) Date: Mon, 14 Oct 13 13:55:55 +0200 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Article/request In-Reply-To: <894D8359A4EE49329DBB1BBF1407B8A8@PCdeChristle> Message-ID: I would be grateful if someone could send me a copy too. Thanks in advance. On 14 oct. 2013, at 08:07, Christ?le Barois wrote: > Dear members of the list, > I should be grateful if someone could send me a copy of John Brockington's article : "The Puranas - Priestly or Popular ?" > Haryana Sahitya Akademi Journal of Indological Studies 2, 1987, p. 122-134. > I thank you very much in advance, > Christ?le Barois > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > http://listinfo.indology.info Dr Fran?ois Voegeli Senior FNS Researcher Institut d'Arch?ologie et des Sciences de l'Antiquit? Anthropole, bureau 4018 Facult? des Lettres Universit? de Lausanne CH-1015 Lausanne -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From hr at ivs.edu Mon Oct 14 12:36:00 2013 From: hr at ivs.edu (Howard Resnick) Date: Mon, 14 Oct 13 05:36:00 -0700 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Article/request In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <2CA7EAEE-5512-4EAB-81D1-47B05A1E44F5@ivs.edu> I would also be grateful. Thank you! On Oct 14, 2013, at 4:55 AM, Francois Voegeli wrote: > I would be grateful if someone could send me a copy too. > Thanks in advance. > > On 14 oct. 2013, at 08:07, Christ?le Barois wrote: > >> Dear members of the list, >> I should be grateful if someone could send me a copy of John Brockington's article : "The Puranas - Priestly or Popular ?" >> Haryana Sahitya Akademi Journal of Indological Studies 2, 1987, p. 122-134. >> I thank you very much in advance, >> Christ?le Barois >> _______________________________________________ >> INDOLOGY mailing list >> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info >> http://listinfo.indology.info > > Dr Fran?ois Voegeli > > Senior FNS Researcher > Institut d'Arch?ologie et des Sciences de l'Antiquit? > Anthropole, bureau 4018 > Facult? des Lettres > Universit? de Lausanne > CH-1015 Lausanne > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > http://listinfo.indology.info -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From edbryant at rci.rutgers.edu Mon Oct 14 12:38:38 2013 From: edbryant at rci.rutgers.edu (edbryant at rci.rutgers.edu) Date: Mon, 14 Oct 13 08:38:38 -0400 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Article/request In-Reply-To: <2CA7EAEE-5512-4EAB-81D1-47B05A1E44F5@ivs.edu> Message-ID: <675369475119e07bd6ff1e84655b19d7.squirrel@webmail.rci.rutgers.edu> As would I - perhaps it can be made available to the list? I'll see if I can get it through our library system. EB > I would also be grateful. Thank you! > > On Oct 14, 2013, at 4:55 AM, Francois Voegeli > wrote: > >> I would be grateful if someone could send me a copy too. >> Thanks in advance. >> >> On 14 oct. 2013, at 08:07, Christ?le Barois >> wrote: >> >>> Dear members of the list, >>> I should be grateful if someone could send me a copy of John >>> Brockington's article : "The Puranas - Priestly or Popular ?" >>> Haryana Sahitya Akademi Journal of Indological Studies 2, 1987, p. >>> 122-134. >>> I thank you very much in advance, >>> Christ?le Barois >>> _______________________________________________ >>> INDOLOGY mailing list >>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info >>> http://listinfo.indology.info >> >> Dr Fran?ois Voegeli >> >> Senior FNS Researcher >> Institut d'Arch?ologie et des Sciences de l'Antiquit? >> Anthropole, bureau 4018 >> Facult? des Lettres >> Universit? de Lausanne >> CH-1015 Lausanne >> >> _______________________________________________ >> INDOLOGY mailing list >> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info >> http://listinfo.indology.info > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > http://listinfo.indology.info From christophe.vielle at uclouvain.be Mon Oct 14 12:45:58 2013 From: christophe.vielle at uclouvain.be (Christophe Vielle) Date: Mon, 14 Oct 13 14:45:58 +0200 Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_[INDOLOGY]_Sukum=C4=81ra's_K=E1=B9=9B=E1=B9=A3=E1=B9=87avil=C4=81sa_with_R=C4=81map=C4=81=E1=B9=87iv=C4=81da's_Vil=C4=81sin=C4=AB_commentary?= In-Reply-To: <42076017-7C6C-4343-840F-FF0ECEDAE5D1@fastwebnet.it> Message-ID: Dear Marco, If you get "it", I would be interested by the same .pdf. In my case, not at first for the the poem (of which I have the text + English transl. and notes by K.P.A. Menon, Nag Publishers, 1996, Nine Gems of Sanskrit literature vol. 1), but for Raamapaa.nivaada's commentary. Of the the K???avil?sa itself, It seems that there is only one edition of the complete text in 12 sargas (on which Menon relies): by K. Jayammal (Ph.D. Thesis of the University of Madras, 1979, under K. Kunjunni Raja, see the latter 1958, p. 196-98, 1980 add. p. xiii), publ. by Higginbothams Ltd in 1982. The references I have for the commentary are : ? Sree Krishna vilasa kavyam of Sukumara kavi / Sri krsnavilasakavyam, with a Sanskrit commentary `Vilasini' by Rama Panivada and English translation, exhaustive notes, etc. by T.K. Ramachandra Aiyar, 3rd ed., Palghat : R.S. Vadhyar & Sons, Sanskrit study made easy series This popular edition has the first four cantos only. ? An edition of the K???avil?sa (I have note the precise title) published in the Kerala-granthamaalaa Series, Phalgat, 1906-1908, also incomplete (8 sargas only). A few other editions, without, or with other, commentary/ies are listed in the useful (neglected) L. Sulochana Devi's Historical Survey of Sanskrit Mahaakaavyas [of Kerala], Kanishka Publishing House, 1992, p. 11, but the complete commentary of Raamapaa.nivaada does not appear. Interestingly, I found in the introduction of another work by Raamapaa.nivaada that "Vil?sin? is intended for the beginners of Sanskrit... is usually prescribed to beginners who study Sanskrit in Kerala". It is therefore not impossible that Raamapaa.nivaada did not comment the whole text. If you get "it", I would be interested by the same .pdf. Le 14 oct. 2013 ? 13:49, Marco Franceschini a ?crit : > Dear Collegues, > > does anyone happen to have a pdf of Sukum?ra's K???avil?sa with the commentary called Vil?sin? by R?map??iv?da? I'm trying to identify an incomplete grantha manuscript: it seems to contain parts of that work, but to be sure I need to check the manuscript against the edition. > > Thank you very much in advance. > > Best wishes, > > Marco Franceschini > ---------------------- > PhD, Research Fellow > University of Bologna > Department of Linguistics and Oriental Studies > via Zamboni 33 - 40126 Bologna - Italy > marco.franceschini3 at unibo.it > --- > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > http://listinfo.indology.info ??????????????????? Christophe Vielle Louvain-la-Neuve Editor, Publications de l'Institut Orientaliste de Louvain series - Last Indological issues: PIOL nos 53, 60, 63, 64 - Still available: Mah?praj??p?ramit???stra (vols 1-2-3-4-5), Asa?ga's Mah?y?nasa?graha, Vimalak?rtinirde?a, Lamotte's History of Indian Buddhism, etc. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Marcus.Schmuecker at oeaw.ac.at Mon Oct 14 13:19:18 2013 From: Marcus.Schmuecker at oeaw.ac.at (=?utf-8?Q?Schm=C3=BCcker=2C_Marcus?=) Date: Mon, 14 Oct 13 13:19:18 +0000 Subject: [INDOLOGY] (no subject) Message-ID: <32DFF8C9C7C5A54696929A6A74F560DA017C9C95@w07exdb2.oeaw.ads> MOST RECENT RELEASE DERMOT KILLINGLEY, Polemic and Dialogue in Rammohun Roy. (Publications of the De Nobili Research Library. Occasional Papers 7). Vienna, 2013. 48p. (? 10) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: book_announcement_Killingley.pdf Type: application/pdf Size: 82362 bytes Desc: not available URL: From Marcus.Schmuecker at oeaw.ac.at Mon Oct 14 13:20:49 2013 From: Marcus.Schmuecker at oeaw.ac.at (=?utf-8?Q?Schm=C3=BCcker=2C_Marcus?=) Date: Mon, 14 Oct 13 13:20:49 +0000 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Special Sale Message-ID: <32DFF8C9C7C5A54696929A6A74F560DA017C9CA6@w07exdb2.oeaw.ads> Special Sale Up to 31 October 2013 the De Nobili Research Library is offering a discount of 50 % on all volumes published before 2008. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: IMG.pdf Type: application/pdf Size: 259064 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: IMG_0001.pdf Type: application/pdf Size: 803013 bytes Desc: not available URL: From Marcus.Schmuecker at oeaw.ac.at Mon Oct 14 13:23:27 2013 From: Marcus.Schmuecker at oeaw.ac.at (=?utf-8?Q?Schm=C3=BCcker=2C_Marcus?=) Date: Mon, 14 Oct 13 13:23:27 +0000 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Book Announcement - Most Recent Release In-Reply-To: <32DFF8C9C7C5A54696929A6A74F560DA017C9C95@w07exdb2.oeaw.ads> Message-ID: <32DFF8C9C7C5A54696929A6A74F560DA017C9CBE@w07exdb2.oeaw.ads> ________________________________ Von: Schm?cker, Marcus Gesendet: Montag, 14. Oktober 2013 15:19 An: indology at list.indology.info Cc: Informationsaustausch der deutschsprachigen Indologie Betreff: MOST RECENT RELEASE DERMOT KILLINGLEY, Polemic and Dialogue in Rammohun Roy. (Publications of the De Nobili Research Library. Occasional Papers 7). Vienna, 2013. 48p. (? 10) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: book_announcement_Killingley.pdf Type: application/pdf Size: 82362 bytes Desc: not available URL: From jpo at uts.cc.utexas.edu Mon Oct 14 13:33:45 2013 From: jpo at uts.cc.utexas.edu (Patrick Olivelle) Date: Mon, 14 Oct 13 08:33:45 -0500 Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_[INDOLOGY]_Dharmakavidhi_and_J=C4=ABvad=C4=81na?= In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Dear Arlo: In the commentary on this by Lak?m?dhara, Vyavah?rakalpataru (Dharmako?a, I: 523), we have: j?vad?n?dikai? "ma prag?m apathy vayam" ity?dibhi?. The Divyatattva comments: j?vadanamantras tu ??rad?y?m -- "p????ku?apu?? ..> *and a long explanation (too long for me to type it out here!!). The Divyatattva was edited and translated by Richard Lariviere (Manohar, 1981). This is a much more tantric rite. Aiyangar's edition (I have a hard copy) does not add much to this; the Kyoto electronic copy is based on it. Best, Patrick On Oct 14, 2013, at 3:24 AM, Arlo Griffiths wrote: > Dear colleagues, > > The B?haspatism?ti contains the interesting short text entitled Dharmakavidhi pasted below. If I am not overlooking anything, Kane has not discussed it in Hist. of Dharma??stra. Does anyhone happen to know parallels for it, does anybody have a suggestion on what the significance of the suffix -ka might be here, and is there any convincing way to estimate the date of this little text (presuming that the B?haspatism?ti is a composite text)? Could anyone supply a pdf of K.V. Rangaswami Aiyangar's volume Gaekwad Oriental Series, 85 (B?haspatism?ti Reconstructed, 1941)? > > On a related note, I assume that j?vad?n?dibhir mantrai? here refers to the Vedic mantra j?vad?nava stha etc. So this passage is not directly relevant to my underlying problem, the meaning of j?vad?na in a 5th c. inscription: sources such the Ratnam?l?vad?na 4.112 and the Vi??udharmottarapur??a 1.93.10 seem to suggest that this can be an equivalent of jalad?na (itself, presumably, an equivalent of the Mah?d?na jaladhenu) or else that it literally means a gift of life (as at MBh 12.149.108 and, somewhat differently, at Brahm???apur??a 2.16.53). I should much appreciate references to or discussions of j?vad?na in the primary of and secondary literature on Dharma??stra. > > Thank you. > > Arlo Griffiths > EFEO/Jakarta > > --------------- > > B?haspatism?ti [1.8.12 Dharmakavidhi?] > pattradvaye lekhan?yau dharm?dharmau sit?sitau /
> j?vad?n?dibhir mantrai? g?yatry?dyai? ca s?mabhi? // Brh_1,8.82 //
> ?mantrya p?jayed gandhai? kusumai? ca sit?sitai? /
> abhyuk?ya pa?cagavyena m?tpi???ntaritau tata? // Brh_1,8.83 //
> samau k?tv? tu tau kumbhe sth?pyau c?nupalak?itau /
> tata? kumbh?t pi??am eka? prag?h??t?vilambita? // Brh_1,8.84 //
> dharme g?h?te ?uddha? sy?t sa p?jya? ca par?k?akai? /
> adharme sa?g?h?te tu da??yo nirv?sya eva v? [p.93] // Brh_1,8.85 //
> likhed bh?rjapa?e v?pi dharm?dharmau sit?sitau /
> abhyuk?ya pa?cagavyena gandham?lyai? samarcayet // Brh_1,8.86 //
> sitapu?pas tu dharma? sy?d adharmo 'sitapu?padh?t /
> eva? vidh?yopalipya pi??ayos t?ni dh?payet // Brh_1,8.87 //
> gomayena m?d? v?pi pi??au k?ryau samau tata? /
> m?dbh??ake 'nupahate sth?pyau c?nupalak?itau // Brh_1,8.88 //
> upalipte ?ucau de?e devabr?hma?asa?nidhau /
> samarcayet tato dev?n lokap?l??? ca p?rvavat // Brh_1,8.89 //
> dharm?v?hanap?rva? tu pratij??pattraka? likhet /
> yadi p?pavimukto 'ha? dharma? c?y?tu me kare // Brh_1,8.90 //
> abhi?astas tayo? caika? prag?h??t?vilambita? /
> dharme g?h?te ?uddhi? sy?d adharme tu sa h?yate // Brh_1,8.91 //
> eva? vic?rayan r?j? dharm?rth?bhy?? na h?yate // Brh_1,8.92 //
> > > > > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > http://listinfo.indology.info -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From hermantull at gmail.com Mon Oct 14 13:37:04 2013 From: hermantull at gmail.com (Herman Tull) Date: Mon, 14 Oct 13 09:37:04 -0400 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Article/request In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Probably not entirely kosher, but is there a way to make an Indology only repository of articles of interest? So that when one of us makes such requests, we can easily share. I'm too lazy to search the archive right now, but have we had this conversation before? Dominik? Herman Tull Princeton, NJ On Mon, Oct 14, 2013 at 9:36 AM, Herman Tull wrote: > Edwin > > Sorry; meant to send this to whole list; I will resend! > > Herman > > > On Mon, Oct 14, 2013 at 9:25 AM, Herman Tull wrote: > >> Probably not entirely kosher, but is there a way to make an Indology only >> repository of articles of interest? So that when one of us makes such >> requests, we can easily share. >> >> I'm too lazy to search the archive right now, but have we had this >> conversation before? >> >> Dominik? >> >> Herman Tull >> Princeton, NJ >> >> >> On Mon, Oct 14, 2013 at 8:38 AM, wrote: >> >>> >>> As would I - perhaps it can be made available to the list? I'll see if I >>> can get it through our library system. EB >>> >>> >>> > I would also be grateful. Thank you! >>> > >>> > On Oct 14, 2013, at 4:55 AM, Francois Voegeli < >>> francois.voegeli at gmail.com> >>> > wrote: >>> > >>> >> I would be grateful if someone could send me a copy too. >>> >> Thanks in advance. >>> >> >>> >> On 14 oct. 2013, at 08:07, Christ?le Barois >>> >> wrote: >>> >> >>> >>> Dear members of the list, >>> >>> I should be grateful if someone could send me a copy of John >>> >>> Brockington's article : "The Puranas - Priestly or Popular ?" >>> >>> Haryana Sahitya Akademi Journal of Indological Studies 2, 1987, p. >>> >>> 122-134. >>> >>> I thank you very much in advance, >>> >>> Christ?le Barois >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> >>> INDOLOGY mailing list >>> >>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info >>> >>> http://listinfo.indology.info >>> >> >>> >> Dr Fran?ois Voegeli >>> >> >>> >> Senior FNS Researcher >>> >> Institut d'Arch?ologie et des Sciences de l'Antiquit? >>> >> Anthropole, bureau 4018 >>> >> Facult? des Lettres >>> >> Universit? de Lausanne >>> >> CH-1015 Lausanne >>> >> >>> >> _______________________________________________ >>> >> INDOLOGY mailing list >>> >> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info >>> >> http://listinfo.indology.info >>> > >>> > _______________________________________________ >>> > INDOLOGY mailing list >>> > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info >>> > http://listinfo.indology.info >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> INDOLOGY mailing list >>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info >>> http://listinfo.indology.info >>> >> >> >> >> -- >> *Herman Tull >> Princeton, NJ * >> > > > > -- > *Herman Tull > Princeton, NJ * > -- *Herman Tull Princeton, NJ * -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From audrey.truschke at gmail.com Mon Oct 14 13:49:57 2013 From: audrey.truschke at gmail.com (Audrey Truschke) Date: Mon, 14 Oct 13 06:49:57 -0700 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Article/request In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I'll let Dominik take-up the question of an Indology repository, but this discussion raises a general point that's worth emphasizing: many journals allow authors to disseminate their own work freely (sometimes after an initial waiting period of 6-12 months after publication). I encourage everybody--put your publications online, whether on your faculty website, on academia.edu, or in various other online repositories. Also, keep in mind that when a journal asks you to sign a contract limiting your ability to distribute your work, you can often negotiate this and change the terms. Nothing ventured, nothing gained. Audrey -- Audrey Truschke Mellon Postdoctoral Fellow Department of Religious Studies Stanford University audrey.truschke at gmail.com http://www.stanford.edu/~truschke/ On Mon, Oct 14, 2013 at 6:37 AM, Herman Tull wrote: > Probably not entirely kosher, but is there a way to make an Indology only > repository of articles of interest? So that when one of us makes such > requests, we can easily share. > > I'm too lazy to search the archive right now, but have we had this > conversation before? > > Dominik? > > Herman Tull > Princeton, NJ > > > On Mon, Oct 14, 2013 at 9:36 AM, Herman Tull wrote: >> >> Edwin >> >> Sorry; meant to send this to whole list; I will resend! >> >> Herman >> >> >> On Mon, Oct 14, 2013 at 9:25 AM, Herman Tull wrote: >>> >>> Probably not entirely kosher, but is there a way to make an Indology only >>> repository of articles of interest? So that when one of us makes such >>> requests, we can easily share. >>> >>> I'm too lazy to search the archive right now, but have we had this >>> conversation before? >>> >>> Dominik? >>> >>> Herman Tull >>> Princeton, NJ >>> >>> >>> On Mon, Oct 14, 2013 at 8:38 AM, wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> As would I - perhaps it can be made available to the list? I'll see if >>>> I >>>> can get it through our library system. EB >>>> >>>> >>>> > I would also be grateful. Thank you! >>>> > >>>> > On Oct 14, 2013, at 4:55 AM, Francois Voegeli >>>> > >>>> > wrote: >>>> > >>>> >> I would be grateful if someone could send me a copy too. >>>> >> Thanks in advance. >>>> >> >>>> >> On 14 oct. 2013, at 08:07, Christ?le Barois >>>> >> wrote: >>>> >> >>>> >>> Dear members of the list, >>>> >>> I should be grateful if someone could send me a copy of John >>>> >>> Brockington's article : "The Puranas - Priestly or Popular ?" >>>> >>> Haryana Sahitya Akademi Journal of Indological Studies 2, 1987, p. >>>> >>> 122-134. >>>> >>> I thank you very much in advance, >>>> >>> Christ?le Barois >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>>> >>> INDOLOGY mailing list >>>> >>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info >>>> >>> http://listinfo.indology.info >>>> >> >>>> >> Dr Fran?ois Voegeli >>>> >> >>>> >> Senior FNS Researcher >>>> >> Institut d'Arch?ologie et des Sciences de l'Antiquit? >>>> >> Anthropole, bureau 4018 >>>> >> Facult? des Lettres >>>> >> Universit? de Lausanne >>>> >> CH-1015 Lausanne >>>> >> >>>> >> _______________________________________________ >>>> >> INDOLOGY mailing list >>>> >> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info >>>> >> http://listinfo.indology.info >>>> > >>>> > _______________________________________________ >>>> > INDOLOGY mailing list >>>> > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info >>>> > http://listinfo.indology.info >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> INDOLOGY mailing list >>>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info >>>> http://listinfo.indology.info >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Herman Tull >>> Princeton, NJ >> >> >> >> >> -- >> Herman Tull >> Princeton, NJ > > > > > -- > Herman Tull > Princeton, NJ > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > http://listinfo.indology.info From jpo at uts.cc.utexas.edu Mon Oct 14 13:58:06 2013 From: jpo at uts.cc.utexas.edu (Patrick Olivelle) Date: Mon, 14 Oct 13 08:58:06 -0500 Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_[INDOLOGY]_Dharmakavidhi_and_J=C4=ABvad=C4=81na?= In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <2904903C-7DC1-4E40-8833-177655262E7A@uts.cc.utexas.edu> Hi Arlo: One more thing about "dharmaka". I think this is an error on the part of Aiyangar. In the Dharmako?a, and in the Sm?ticandrik? the corresponding title is "dharmaja". Patrick On Oct 14, 2013, at 3:24 AM, Arlo Griffiths wrote: > Dear colleagues, > > The B?haspatism?ti contains the interesting short text entitled Dharmakavidhi pasted below. If I am not overlooking anything, Kane has not discussed it in Hist. of Dharma??stra. Does anyhone happen to know parallels for it, does anybody have a suggestion on what the significance of the suffix -ka might be here, and is there any convincing way to estimate the date of this little text (presuming that the B?haspatism?ti is a composite text)? Could anyone supply a pdf of K.V. Rangaswami Aiyangar's volume Gaekwad Oriental Series, 85 (B?haspatism?ti Reconstructed, 1941)? > > On a related note, I assume that j?vad?n?dibhir mantrai? here refers to the Vedic mantra j?vad?nava stha etc. So this passage is not directly relevant to my underlying problem, the meaning of j?vad?na in a 5th c. inscription: sources such the Ratnam?l?vad?na 4.112 and the Vi??udharmottarapur??a 1.93.10 seem to suggest that this can be an equivalent of jalad?na (itself, presumably, an equivalent of the Mah?d?na jaladhenu) or else that it literally means a gift of life (as at MBh 12.149.108 and, somewhat differently, at Brahm???apur??a 2.16.53). I should much appreciate references to or discussions of j?vad?na in the primary of and secondary literature on Dharma??stra. > > Thank you. > > Arlo Griffiths > EFEO/Jakarta > > --------------- > > B?haspatism?ti [1.8.12 Dharmakavidhi?] > pattradvaye lekhan?yau dharm?dharmau sit?sitau /
> j?vad?n?dibhir mantrai? g?yatry?dyai? ca s?mabhi? // Brh_1,8.82 //
> ?mantrya p?jayed gandhai? kusumai? ca sit?sitai? /
> abhyuk?ya pa?cagavyena m?tpi???ntaritau tata? // Brh_1,8.83 //
> samau k?tv? tu tau kumbhe sth?pyau c?nupalak?itau /
> tata? kumbh?t pi??am eka? prag?h??t?vilambita? // Brh_1,8.84 //
> dharme g?h?te ?uddha? sy?t sa p?jya? ca par?k?akai? /
> adharme sa?g?h?te tu da??yo nirv?sya eva v? [p.93] // Brh_1,8.85 //
> likhed bh?rjapa?e v?pi dharm?dharmau sit?sitau /
> abhyuk?ya pa?cagavyena gandham?lyai? samarcayet // Brh_1,8.86 //
> sitapu?pas tu dharma? sy?d adharmo 'sitapu?padh?t /
> eva? vidh?yopalipya pi??ayos t?ni dh?payet // Brh_1,8.87 //
> gomayena m?d? v?pi pi??au k?ryau samau tata? /
> m?dbh??ake 'nupahate sth?pyau c?nupalak?itau // Brh_1,8.88 //
> upalipte ?ucau de?e devabr?hma?asa?nidhau /
> samarcayet tato dev?n lokap?l??? ca p?rvavat // Brh_1,8.89 //
> dharm?v?hanap?rva? tu pratij??pattraka? likhet /
> yadi p?pavimukto 'ha? dharma? c?y?tu me kare // Brh_1,8.90 //
> abhi?astas tayo? caika? prag?h??t?vilambita? /
> dharme g?h?te ?uddhi? sy?d adharme tu sa h?yate // Brh_1,8.91 //
> eva? vic?rayan r?j? dharm?rth?bhy?? na h?yate // Brh_1,8.92 //
> > > > > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > http://listinfo.indology.info -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From wujastyk at gmail.com Mon Oct 14 14:09:45 2013 From: wujastyk at gmail.com (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Mon, 14 Oct 13 16:09:45 +0200 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Copyright (yawn!) Message-ID: ?From time to time, the issue of copyright comes up for all of us. I just discovered this useful guide, - Hirtle, Hudson and Kenyon, *Copyright and Cultural Institutions: Guidelines for Digitization for U.S. Libraries, Archives, and Museums* (Ithaca, NY: Cornell University Library Press, 2009)*. * which may be freely downloaded: - http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=1495365 I mention it because it is written in clear language, well laid-out, and addresses the kinds of issues that we commonly face as humanist scholars. It's a bit USA-o-centric, but does talk about international issues too. Best, Dominik Wujastyk -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From arlogriffiths at hotmail.com Mon Oct 14 14:21:32 2013 From: arlogriffiths at hotmail.com (Arlo Griffiths) Date: Mon, 14 Oct 13 14:21:32 +0000 Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_[INDOLOGY]_Dharmakavidhi_and_J=C4=ABvad=C4=81na?= In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Dear Patrick, Thanks for your two responses. The reading Dharmajavidhi makes things a bit easier; Dharmaj?avidhir would be even easier. The mantra you cite must be emended to m? prag?ma patho vayam (if that is not actually what the edition gives). Lak?m?dhara's comment was at first sight puzzling to me. But now it seems to me his reasoning, or that of his source, must have been that this group of 5 mantras, in its ?gveda version (10.57), reads as p?da 5c j?va? vr?ta? sacemahi. The connection with j?vad?na seems forced. The Divyatattva must be referring to the phrase p????ku?apu?? which indeed occurs repeatedly in the ??rad?tilaka. Indeed in some late Tantric texts, a third meaning of j?vad?na (that I don't understand yet) seems to be at play. Best wishes, Arlo Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] Dharmakavidhi and J?vad?na From: jpo at uts.cc.utexas.edu Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2013 08:33:45 -0500 CC: indology at list.indology.info To: arlogriffiths at hotmail.com Dear Arlo: In the commentary on this by Lak?m?dhara, Vyavah?rakalpataru (Dharmako?a, I: 523), we have: j?vad?n?dikai? "ma prag?m apathy vayam" ity?dibhi?. The Divyatattva comments: j?vadanamantras tu ??rad?y?m -- "p????ku?apu?? ..> *and a long explanation (too long for me to type it out here!!). The Divyatattva was edited and translated by Richard Lariviere (Manohar, 1981). This is a much more tantric rite. Aiyangar's edition (I have a hard copy) does not add much to this; the Kyoto electronic copy is based on it. Best, Patrick On Oct 14, 2013, at 3:24 AM, Arlo Griffiths wrote:Dear colleagues, The B?haspatism?ti contains the interesting short text entitled Dharmakavidhi pasted below. If I am not overlooking anything, Kane has not discussed it in Hist. of Dharma??stra. Does anyhone happen to know parallels for it, does anybody have a suggestion on what the significance of the suffix -ka might be here, and is there any convincing way to estimate the date of this little text (presuming that the B?haspatism?ti is a composite text)? Could anyone supply a pdf of K.V. Rangaswami Aiyangar's volume Gaekwad Oriental Series, 85 (B?haspatism?ti Reconstructed, 1941)? On a related note, I assume that j?vad?n?dibhir mantrai? here refers to the Vedic mantra j?vad?nava stha etc. So this passage is not directly relevant to my underlying problem, the meaning of j?vad?na in a 5th c. inscription: sources such the Ratnam?l?vad?na 4.112 and the Vi??udharmottarapur??a 1.93.10 seem to suggest that this can be an equivalent of jalad?na (itself, presumably, an equivalent of the Mah?d?na jaladhenu) or else that it literally means a gift of life (as at MBh 12.149.108 and, somewhat differently, at Brahm???apur??a 2.16.53). I should much appreciate references to or discussions of j?vad?na in the primary of and secondary literature on Dharma??stra. Thank you. Arlo Griffiths EFEO/Jakarta --------------- B?haspatism?ti [1.8.12 Dharmakavidhi?]pattradvaye lekhan?yau dharm?dharmau sit?sitau /
j?vad?n?dibhir mantrai? g?yatry?dyai? ca s?mabhi? // Brh_1,8.82 //
?mantrya p?jayed gandhai? kusumai? ca sit?sitai? /
abhyuk?ya pa?cagavyena m?tpi???ntaritau tata? // Brh_1,8.83 //
samau k?tv? tu tau kumbhe sth?pyau c?nupalak?itau /
tata? kumbh?t pi??am eka? prag?h??t?vilambita? // Brh_1,8.84 //
dharme g?h?te ?uddha? sy?t sa p?jya? ca par?k?akai? /
adharme sa?g?h?te tu da??yo nirv?sya eva v? [p.93] // Brh_1,8.85 //
likhed bh?rjapa?e v?pi dharm?dharmau sit?sitau /
abhyuk?ya pa?cagavyena gandham?lyai? samarcayet // Brh_1,8.86 //
sitapu?pas tu dharma? sy?d adharmo 'sitapu?padh?t /
eva? vidh?yopalipya pi??ayos t?ni dh?payet // Brh_1,8.87 //
gomayena m?d? v?pi pi??au k?ryau samau tata? /
m?dbh??ake 'nupahate sth?pyau c?nupalak?itau // Brh_1,8.88 //
upalipte ?ucau de?e devabr?hma?asa?nidhau /
samarcayet tato dev?n lokap?l??? ca p?rvavat // Brh_1,8.89 //
dharm?v?hanap?rva? tu pratij??pattraka? likhet /
yadi p?pavimukto 'ha? dharma? c?y?tu me kare // Brh_1,8.90 //
abhi?astas tayo? caika? prag?h??t?vilambita? /
dharme g?h?te ?uddhi? sy?d adharme tu sa h?yate // Brh_1,8.91 //
eva? vic?rayan r?j? dharm?rth?bhy?? na h?yate // Brh_1,8.92 //
_______________________________________________ INDOLOGY mailing list INDOLOGY at list.indology.info http://listinfo.indology.info -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From franceschini.marco at fastwebnet.it Mon Oct 14 14:30:25 2013 From: franceschini.marco at fastwebnet.it (Marco Franceschini) Date: Mon, 14 Oct 13 15:30:25 +0100 Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_[INDOLOGY]_Sukum=C4=81ra's_K=E1=B9=9B=E1=B9=A3=E1=B9=87avil=C4=81sa_with_R=C4=81map=C4=81=E1=B9=87iv=C4=81da's_Vil=C4=81sin=C4=AB_commentary?= In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Dear Colleagues, Rohana Seneviratne was so kind to send a pdf of the work to me in no time! As she says, the quality is not great at all, but mostly legible. You can download it from here: https://www.dropbox.com/s/6rrezg6m2r8dceo/Krsnavilasa%20of%20Sukumara.pdf The edition Rohana made available is the one published in Palghat/Palakkad with only the first four cantos in it. The Jayammal's edition (1982) seems to be available (in Europe) only at the British Library and at the Libraries of the Universities of T?bingen ( http://swb2.bsz-bw.de/DB=2.312/SET=1/TTL=1/SHW?FRST=2/PRS=HOL&HILN=888&ADI_LND= ) and G?ttingen ( https://opac.sub.uni-goettingen.de/DB=1/LNG=DU/CLK?IKT=12&TRM=018701094 ). Best wishes, Marco --- Il giorno 14/ott/2013, alle ore 13.45, Christophe Vielle ha scritto: > Dear Marco, > > If you get "it", I would be interested by the same .pdf. > In my case, not at first for the the poem (of which I have the text + English transl. and notes by K.P.A. Menon, Nag Publishers, 1996, Nine Gems of Sanskrit literature vol. 1), but for Raamapaa.nivaada's commentary. > Of the the K???avil?sa itself, It seems that there is only one edition of the complete text in 12 sargas (on which Menon relies): by K. Jayammal (Ph.D. Thesis of the University of Madras, 1979, under K. Kunjunni Raja, see the latter 1958, p. 196-98, 1980 add. p. xiii), publ. by Higginbothams Ltd in 1982. > The references I have for the commentary are : > ? Sree Krishna vilasa kavyam of Sukumara kavi / Sri krsnavilasakavyam, with a Sanskrit commentary `Vilasini' by Rama Panivada and English translation, exhaustive notes, etc. by T.K. Ramachandra Aiyar, 3rd ed., Palghat : R.S. Vadhyar & Sons, Sanskrit study made easy series > This popular edition has the first four cantos only. > ? An edition of the K???avil?sa (I have note the precise title) published in the Kerala-granthamaalaa Series, Phalgat, 1906-1908, also incomplete (8 sargas only). > A few other editions, without, or with other, commentary/ies are listed in the useful (neglected) L. Sulochana Devi's Historical Survey of Sanskrit Mahaakaavyas [of Kerala], Kanishka Publishing House, 1992, p. 11, but the complete commentary of Raamapaa.nivaada does not appear. > Interestingly, I found in the introduction of another work by Raamapaa.nivaada that "Vil?sin? is intended for the beginners of Sanskrit... is usually prescribed to beginners who study Sanskrit in Kerala". > It is therefore not impossible that Raamapaa.nivaada did not comment the whole text. > > Le 14 oct. 2013 ? 13:49, Marco Franceschini a ?crit : > >> Dear Collegues, >> >> does anyone happen to have a pdf of Sukum?ra's K???avil?sa with the commentary called Vil?sin? by R?map??iv?da? I'm trying to identify an incomplete grantha manuscript: it seems to contain parts of that work, but to be sure I need to check the manuscript against the edition. >> >> Thank you very much in advance. >> >> Best wishes, >> >> Marco Franceschini >> ---------------------- >> PhD, Research Fellow >> University of Bologna >> Department of Linguistics and Oriental Studies >> via Zamboni 33 - 40126 Bologna - Italy >> marco.franceschini3 at unibo.it >> --- >> >> _______________________________________________ >> INDOLOGY mailing list >> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info >> http://listinfo.indology.info > > ??????????????????? > Christophe Vielle > Louvain-la-Neuve > > Editor, Publications de l'Institut Orientaliste de Louvain series > - Last Indological issues: PIOL nos 53, 60, 63, 64 > - Still available: Mah?praj??p?ramit???stra (vols 1-2-3-4-5), Asa?ga's Mah?y?nasa?graha, Vimalak?rtinirde?a, Lamotte's History of Indian Buddhism, etc. > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jpo at uts.cc.utexas.edu Mon Oct 14 14:45:10 2013 From: jpo at uts.cc.utexas.edu (Patrick Olivelle) Date: Mon, 14 Oct 13 09:45:10 -0500 Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_[INDOLOGY]_Dharmakavidhi_and_J=C4=ABvad=C4=81na?= In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <58432856-54D9-4985-932A-D7FD65699731@uts.cc.utexas.edu> Dear Arlo: Indeed, I transcribed the text wrong -- your reading is correct. Dharmaja appears to be a kind of "ordeal" or oath to determine the guilt or innocence of a litigant. This is because the verdict is born out of dharma -- the judge writes "dharma" on one leaf and "adharma" on another, and the man has to pick one of them. If he picks "dharma" he is innocent!! Best, Patrick On Oct 14, 2013, at 9:21 AM, Arlo Griffiths wrote: > Dear Patrick, > > Thanks for your two responses. The reading Dharmajavidhi makes things a bit easier; Dharmaj?avidhir would be even easier. > > The mantra you cite must be emended to m? prag?ma patho vayam (if that is not actually what the edition gives). Lak?m?dhara's comment was at first sight puzzling to me. But now it seems to me his reasoning, or that of his source, must have been that this group of 5 mantras, in its ?gveda version (10.57), reads as p?da 5c j?va? vr?ta? sacemahi. The connection with j?vad?na seems forced. > > The Divyatattva must be referring to the phrase p????ku?apu?? which indeed occurs repeatedly in the ??rad?tilaka. Indeed in some late Tantric texts, a third meaning of j?vad?na (that I don't understand yet) seems to be at play. > > Best wishes, > > Arlo > > > Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] Dharmakavidhi and J?vad?na > From: jpo at uts.cc.utexas.edu > Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2013 08:33:45 -0500 > CC: indology at list.indology.info > To: arlogriffiths at hotmail.com > > Dear Arlo: > > In the commentary on this by Lak?m?dhara, Vyavah?rakalpataru (Dharmako?a, I: 523), we have: j?vad?n?dikai? "ma prag?m apathy vayam" ity?dibhi?. > > The Divyatattva comments: j?vadanamantras tu ??rad?y?m -- "p????ku?apu?? ..> *and a long explanation (too long for me to type it out here!!). The Divyatattva was edited and translated by Richard Lariviere (Manohar, 1981). This is a much more tantric rite. > > Aiyangar's edition (I have a hard copy) does not add much to this; the Kyoto electronic copy is based on it. > > Best, > > Patrick > > > > On Oct 14, 2013, at 3:24 AM, Arlo Griffiths wrote: > > Dear colleagues, > > The B?haspatism?ti contains the interesting short text entitled Dharmakavidhi pasted below. If I am not overlooking anything, Kane has not discussed it in Hist. of Dharma??stra. Does anyhone happen to know parallels for it, does anybody have a suggestion on what the significance of the suffix -ka might be here, and is there any convincing way to estimate the date of this little text (presuming that the B?haspatism?ti is a composite text)? Could anyone supply a pdf of K.V. Rangaswami Aiyangar's volume Gaekwad Oriental Series, 85 (B?haspatism?ti Reconstructed, 1941)? > > On a related note, I assume that j?vad?n?dibhir mantrai? here refers to the Vedic mantra j?vad?nava stha etc. So this passage is not directly relevant to my underlying problem, the meaning of j?vad?na in a 5th c. inscription: sources such the Ratnam?l?vad?na 4.112 and the Vi??udharmottarapur??a 1.93.10 seem to suggest that this can be an equivalent of jalad?na (itself, presumably, an equivalent of the Mah?d?na jaladhenu) or else that it literally means a gift of life (as at MBh 12.149.108 and, somewhat differently, at Brahm???apur??a 2.16.53). I should much appreciate references to or discussions of j?vad?na in the primary of and secondary literature on Dharma??stra. > > Thank you. > > Arlo Griffiths > EFEO/Jakarta > > --------------- > > B?haspatism?ti [1.8.12 Dharmakavidhi?] > pattradvaye lekhan?yau dharm?dharmau sit?sitau /
> j?vad?n?dibhir mantrai? g?yatry?dyai? ca s?mabhi? // Brh_1,8.82 //
> ?mantrya p?jayed gandhai? kusumai? ca sit?sitai? /
> abhyuk?ya pa?cagavyena m?tpi???ntaritau tata? // Brh_1,8.83 //
> samau k?tv? tu tau kumbhe sth?pyau c?nupalak?itau /
> tata? kumbh?t pi??am eka? prag?h??t?vilambita? // Brh_1,8.84 //
> dharme g?h?te ?uddha? sy?t sa p?jya? ca par?k?akai? /
> adharme sa?g?h?te tu da??yo nirv?sya eva v? [p.93] // Brh_1,8.85 //
> likhed bh?rjapa?e v?pi dharm?dharmau sit?sitau /
> abhyuk?ya pa?cagavyena gandham?lyai? samarcayet // Brh_1,8.86 //
> sitapu?pas tu dharma? sy?d adharmo 'sitapu?padh?t /
> eva? vidh?yopalipya pi??ayos t?ni dh?payet // Brh_1,8.87 //
> gomayena m?d? v?pi pi??au k?ryau samau tata? /
> m?dbh??ake 'nupahate sth?pyau c?nupalak?itau // Brh_1,8.88 //
> upalipte ?ucau de?e devabr?hma?asa?nidhau /
> samarcayet tato dev?n lokap?l??? ca p?rvavat // Brh_1,8.89 //
> dharm?v?hanap?rva? tu pratij??pattraka? likhet /
> yadi p?pavimukto 'ha? dharma? c?y?tu me kare // Brh_1,8.90 //
> abhi?astas tayo? caika? prag?h??t?vilambita? /
> dharme g?h?te ?uddhi? sy?d adharme tu sa h?yate // Brh_1,8.91 //
> eva? vic?rayan r?j? dharm?rth?bhy?? na h?yate // Brh_1,8.92 //
> > > > > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > http://listinfo.indology.info > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From wujastyk at gmail.com Mon Oct 14 16:03:17 2013 From: wujastyk at gmail.com (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Mon, 14 Oct 13 18:03:17 +0200 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Article/request In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Dear Herman and all, I can do no better than to echo Audrey's comments. Academia.edu has emerged in recent years as a very useful place for academics to network and exchange their papers. It's a kind of Facebook for serious people, and very low-nuisance. A lot of us are benefitting from it already, as a way to stay au courant with each other's publications. It was founded by a fellow of All Souls in Oxford: what more need I say :-) One of the points about Academia.edu is that responsibility for uploading papers is distributed, which means that each individual scholar takes responsibility for their own copyright issues. This is is better than having a central repository that could be targetted like Library. nuwas, last year. (Though I suppose a consortium of publishers could attack Academia.edu for making it too easy for the rest of us.) Finally, Audrey hits the nail on the head again about copyright. There are ready-made licenses out there that are recommended for academic authors. See here for further links. Just download oneand send it to your publisher when they as you to transfer copyright. Say, "I'd rather give you a license like this." Best, Dominik -- Dr Dominik Wujastyk Department of South Asia, Tibetan and Buddhist Studies , University of Vienna, Spitalgasse 2-4, Courtyard 2, Entrance 2.1 1090 Vienna, Austria and Adjunct Professor, Division of Health and Humanities, St. John's Research Institute, Bangalore, India. Project | home page| HSSA | PGP On 14 October 2013 15:49, Audrey Truschke wrote: > I'll let Dominik take-up the question of an Indology repository, but > this discussion raises a general point that's worth emphasizing: many > journals allow authors to disseminate their own work freely (sometimes > after an initial waiting period of 6-12 months after publication). I > encourage everybody--put your publications online, whether on your > faculty website, on academia.edu, or in various other online > repositories. > > Also, keep in mind that when a journal asks you to sign a contract > limiting your ability to distribute your work, you can often negotiate > this and change the terms. Nothing ventured, nothing gained. > > Audrey > -- > Audrey Truschke > Mellon Postdoctoral Fellow > Department of Religious Studies > Stanford University > audrey.truschke at gmail.com > http://www.stanford.edu/~truschke/ > > On Mon, Oct 14, 2013 at 6:37 AM, Herman Tull wrote: > > Probably not entirely kosher, but is there a way to make an Indology only > > repository of articles of interest? So that when one of us makes such > > requests, we can easily share. > > > > I'm too lazy to search the archive right now, but have we had this > > conversation before? > > > > Dominik? > > > > Herman Tull > > Princeton, NJ > > > > > > On Mon, Oct 14, 2013 at 9:36 AM, Herman Tull > wrote: > >> > >> Edwin > >> > >> Sorry; meant to send this to whole list; I will resend! > >> > >> Herman > >> > >> > >> On Mon, Oct 14, 2013 at 9:25 AM, Herman Tull > wrote: > >>> > >>> Probably not entirely kosher, but is there a way to make an Indology > only > >>> repository of articles of interest? So that when one of us makes such > >>> requests, we can easily share. > >>> > >>> I'm too lazy to search the archive right now, but have we had this > >>> conversation before? > >>> > >>> Dominik? > >>> > >>> Herman Tull > >>> Princeton, NJ > >>> > >>> > >>> On Mon, Oct 14, 2013 at 8:38 AM, wrote: > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> As would I - perhaps it can be made available to the list? I'll see > if > >>>> I > >>>> can get it through our library system. EB > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > I would also be grateful. Thank you! > >>>> > > >>>> > On Oct 14, 2013, at 4:55 AM, Francois Voegeli > >>>> > > >>>> > wrote: > >>>> > > >>>> >> I would be grateful if someone could send me a copy too. > >>>> >> Thanks in advance. > >>>> >> > >>>> >> On 14 oct. 2013, at 08:07, Christ?le Barois > >>>> >> wrote: > >>>> >> > >>>> >>> Dear members of the list, > >>>> >>> I should be grateful if someone could send me a copy of John > >>>> >>> Brockington's article : "The Puranas - Priestly or Popular ?" > >>>> >>> Haryana Sahitya Akademi Journal of Indological Studies 2, 1987, p. > >>>> >>> 122-134. > >>>> >>> I thank you very much in advance, > >>>> >>> Christ?le Barois > >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ > >>>> >>> INDOLOGY mailing list > >>>> >>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > >>>> >>> http://listinfo.indology.info > >>>> >> > >>>> >> Dr Fran?ois Voegeli > >>>> >> > >>>> >> Senior FNS Researcher > >>>> >> Institut d'Arch?ologie et des Sciences de l'Antiquit? > >>>> >> Anthropole, bureau 4018 > >>>> >> Facult? des Lettres > >>>> >> Universit? de Lausanne > >>>> >> CH-1015 Lausanne > >>>> >> > >>>> >> _______________________________________________ > >>>> >> INDOLOGY mailing list > >>>> >> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > >>>> >> http://listinfo.indology.info > >>>> > > >>>> > _______________________________________________ > >>>> > INDOLOGY mailing list > >>>> > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > >>>> > http://listinfo.indology.info > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>> INDOLOGY mailing list > >>>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > >>>> http://listinfo.indology.info > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> -- > >>> Herman Tull > >>> Princeton, NJ > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> -- > >> Herman Tull > >> Princeton, NJ > > > > > > > > > > -- > > Herman Tull > > Princeton, NJ > > > > _______________________________________________ > > INDOLOGY mailing list > > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > > http://listinfo.indology.info > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > http://listinfo.indology.info > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rajam at earthlink.net Mon Oct 14 17:53:30 2013 From: rajam at earthlink.net (Rajam) Date: Mon, 14 Oct 13 10:53:30 -0700 Subject: [INDOLOGY] query: 18 ;sre.nii jaatis In-Reply-To: <8D096C06957BB14-1C64-293DC@webmail-m148.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <59623EF7-B859-43E9-9FC4-EED49FFF4966@earthlink.net> This response is in reference to Whitney's comment: /// I would like to revise that suggestion, and instead propose that we might see here a reflex of another set of South-Indian caste-communities referred to in Tamil as the ku?imakka?, perhaps best rendered 'people of the village'. The entry s.v. in the Madras Tamil Lexicon reads (with my transliteration and bracketed translations): ku?imakka? , n. < id. +. 1. Sub-castes rendering service in a village, being 18 in number, viz.,va???n? [washerman], n?vitan? [barber], kuyavan? [potter], ta???n? [goldsmith], kan?n??n? [brazier], kar?r?accan? [mason], kollan? [blacksmith], taccan? [carpenter], e??eyv??ikan? [oil merchant], uppuv??ikan? [salt merchant], ilaiv??ikan? [betel merchant], pa??i [watchman], p?m?laikk?ran? [garland maker], par?aiyan? [Dalit, pariah], k?vilku?iy?n? [conch-blower], occan? [? another Dalit community], valaiyan? [fisherman], p??an? [tailor]. /// 1. Re: The term "caste." You can start from the entry in wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caste. 2. The Portuguese started using the term "casta" when they came to the southern part of Tamilnadu (in the 16-th century) and tried to learn Tamil and describe Tamil in Portuguese for the sake of further missionary activities. "Casta" was the term they used to describe the various groups of people they noticed in the local society. I happened to have the opportunity to work through the Portuguese manuscript (from 1549 A.D.), by Fr. Henrique Henriques, which describes Tamil in Portuguese. As a "Latin grammarian," Henriques had problems categorizing people's local names when doing the declensions. So ? when he lists a set of local names for the first declension, he says, "Names for occupations. Such nouns for occupations are also nouns of castes." For further details, please see our book "The Earliest Missionary Grammar, Harvard University Press, 2013." 3. Re: Madras Tamil Lexicon entries. Well ? there are discrepancies. For example, if anyone seriously wants to study the history of "castes" or any such thing, one should also look at all their entries beginning with the root/stem of the word. Just for fun, try all the words starting with the stem "ku?i," and you'll see that words such as "ku?imaka?," "ku?imakka?," and so on don't have contiguous semantics. 4. The term "c?ti/????/????" was never restricted to refer to humans in order to indicate high/low status. It just referred to different types of living beings. 5. There was no indication of "untouchability" in the Tamil society as reflected in early Tamil poems. 6. Even when Fr. Henriques (16-th century) listed the names/nouns for people in the Tamil land where he lived and served, he never indicated that there was "untouchability" due to the existence of certain people. ++++++++++++ It IS sad that some modern socio-anthro studies have presented local cultures in ways that the locals cannot understand or accept. To me, it all looks like a cookie-cutter analysis for individual academic progress. Thanks and regards, Rajam -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From alanus1216 at yahoo.com Mon Oct 14 18:19:49 2013 From: alanus1216 at yahoo.com (Allen Thrasher) Date: Mon, 14 Oct 13 11:19:49 -0700 Subject: =?utf-8?Q?[INDOLOGY]_Meaning_and_Explanation_of_'ch=C4=81y=C4=81puru=E1=B9=A3a'?= Message-ID: <1381774789.23500.YahooMailNeo@web163001.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> I seem to have sent this off last night?without a subject, so I rebroadcast it below.? I may also add that I somehow got the impression that the chayapurusa practices the book or books?described might be copied from or influenced by Western occultism. Allen PREVIOUS MESSAGE: ________________________________ ________________________________ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mrinalkaul81 at gmail.com Mon Oct 14 19:54:16 2013 From: mrinalkaul81 at gmail.com (Mrinal Kaul) Date: Mon, 14 Oct 13 21:54:16 +0200 Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_[INDOLOGY]_Meaning_and_Explanation_of_'ch=C4=81y=C4=81puru=E1=B9=A3a'?= In-Reply-To: <1381774789.23500.YahooMailNeo@web163001.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <7C5307FE-72F6-4C9C-AC47-6CA5AF4DCDFA@gmail.com> Many thanks to Allen Thrasher, Johannes Schneider, Patrick Olivelle, Michael Sloubern, Jason Birch, Nivedita Rout, G?rard Huet. The understanding of ch?y?puru?a is clearer than before and I sincerely appreciate your help. Best wishes. Mrinal Kaul On 2013-10-14, at 8:19 PM, Allen Thrasher wrote: > I seem to have sent this off last night without a subject, so I rebroadcast it below. I may also add that I somehow got the impression that the chayapurusa practices the book or books described might be copied from or influenced by Western occultism. > > Allen > > PREVIOUS MESSAGE: > Oct 13 at 8:12 PM > I have a vague memory of seeing books, maybe both in Hindi and English, on the chayapurusa, from the popular publishers in Dariba Kalan in Delhi, that seemed to be about some form of hypnotism or creating by visualization a being that would act for one's purposes. Unfortunately I didn't purchase any such. The only book with the word in the title that I find on WorldCat is Rajesa Diksita, "Devi?, devata?, Hanuma?na, cha?ya?purus?a, evam? Yaks?in?i?-Bhairava siddhi ke prayoga," Dilli? : Deha?ti? Pustaka Bhan?d?a?ra, [1974]. WorldCat seems to have a new format which I haven't had time to decipher and I am not clear whether there is actually a copy of this book in any library or not. The fact that the chayapurusa is something in or over which one may obtain siddhi makes me think that it is not just a form of divination. > > Allen > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > http://listinfo.indology.info -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dr.rupalimokashi at gmail.com Tue Oct 15 07:32:38 2013 From: dr.rupalimokashi at gmail.com (Dr. Rupali Mokashi) Date: Tue, 15 Oct 13 13:02:38 +0530 Subject: [INDOLOGY] INDOLOGY Digest, Vol 9, Issue 23 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: is the e copy of Onkar Prasad Verma. Yadavas and their Times available with anyone? http://rupalimokashi.wordpress.com/ On Mon, Oct 14, 2013 at 11:00 AM, wrote: > Send INDOLOGY mailing list submissions to > indology at list.indology.info > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > > http://list.indology.info/mailman/listinfo/indology_list.indology.info > > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > indology-request at list.indology.info > > You can reach the person managing the list at > indology-owner at list.indology.info > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of INDOLOGY digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. (no subject) (Dipak Bhattacharya) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2013 13:30:15 +0800 (SGT) > From: Dipak Bhattacharya > To: "indology at list.indology.info" > Subject: [INDOLOGY] (no subject) > Message-ID: > <1381728615.60394.YahooMailNeo at web193501.mail.sg3.yahoo.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > I do not know if it will > profitably add to the conversation but there is a story with a moral about > Ch?y?puru?a current in Varanasi. A banker?(name will not be given) of > Varanasi > had assumed the form of or had made a Tantric assume the form of a > Ch?y?puru?a > to lure away the widow of the daughter- in-law of the Diwan of a > Central-South > Indian state around the year 1900. The widow was killed after she had been > made > to surrender her jewellery.?After the income from the property had > been invested in his bank by the perpetrator of the crime the bank failed. > Everything the criminal had went away with the bank. He died of heart > attack. > A thin > reflection of Alexandre Dumas? > DB > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From edbryant at rci.rutgers.edu Tue Oct 15 18:04:06 2013 From: edbryant at rci.rutgers.edu (edbryant at rci.rutgers.edu) Date: Tue, 15 Oct 13 14:04:06 -0400 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Article/request In-Reply-To: <2CA7EAEE-5512-4EAB-81D1-47B05A1E44F5@ivs.edu> Message-ID: <6513caaf4627109738da9158f4ac0d83.squirrel@webmail.rci.rutgers.edu> Friends, Attached is the recently requested article 'Puranas Priestly or Popular.' Best wishes, EB -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: PuranaspriestlyorPopular.pdf Type: application/pdf Size: 963614 bytes Desc: not available URL: From glhart at berkeley.edu Tue Oct 15 19:48:29 2013 From: glhart at berkeley.edu (George Hart) Date: Tue, 15 Oct 13 12:48:29 -0700 Subject: [INDOLOGY] query: 18 ;"sre.nii jaatis In-Reply-To: <59623EF7-B859-43E9-9FC4-EED49FFF4966@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <14CAFD4A-3818-4C2F-AA6C-FE2257963A16@berkeley.edu> Actually, there is quite a bit of evidence for caste ? and untouchability ? in Sangam literature. It should be kept in mind that references to j?ti (and especially untouchability) in Indian classical k?vya and the like are not common. Still, there are mentions of ?people of low birth,? pulaiya?s (= Dalits or other low castes) and other epithets implying low caste and status. The groups receiving these appellations are leatherworkers, drummers (of two types), and washermen, among others. According to the Tamil Lexicon, the word pulai means "baseness, uncleanness, defilement [incurred from contact with a ritually polluting substance or person], evil, animal food, outcaste, and stench.? The root pul is in the DED. Among its meaning in various languages are Kannada pole meaning menstrual flow, impurity from childbirth, defilement, Ko?agu pole, pollution caused by menstruation, birth, or death, Tulu pol?, pollution, defilement, and, far afield, Brahui p?ling, stain, stain on one?s character. Most of the Southern languages have some equivalent for Tamil pulaiya?, man of low caste. An example is Pu?am 287.1, ?O Pulaiya? who beats the tu?i drum, O low one (i?ici?a) who [holds] sticks that strike [the drum].? ???? ??????? ?????! ??????? ???????? ??????! Another example is Pu?am 360: When people have been carried on the bier 15 to the burning ground, that fearful place of desolation, that salty wasteland overgrown with spurge, site of what is other than life, and they lie there on grass, receiving toddy and a few grains of rice at the command of outcaste Pulaiya?, and then they have entered the mouth of fire, 20 for many of these who ate and grew fat no fame has flourished! (Note that ?outcaste? is added here for clarity). ????????? ??????? ????? ???????, ???? ????? ????? ???? ?????????, ???????? ??????? ???????? , ?????? ?????????? ???? ????????? ?????, ??????? ???? ???????? ????????????, ?????????? ????? ????????, ???????????? ??????, ?????????? ???? Palaniyappan, who believes there was no caste in Sangam times, has argued that the word pulai comes from poli, ?shine? and has positive connotations, but this does not accord with the DED or the uses of the word in other Dravidian languages. George On Oct 14, 2013, at 10:53 AM, Rajam wrote: > This response is in reference to Whitney's comment: > > /// I would like to revise that suggestion, and instead propose that we might see here a reflex of another set of South-Indian caste-communities referred to in Tamil as the ku?imakka?, perhaps best rendered 'people of the village'. The entry s.v. in the Madras Tamil Lexicon reads (with my transliteration and bracketed translations): > > ku?imakka? , n. < id. +. 1. Sub-castes rendering service in a village, being 18 in number, viz.,va???n? [washerman], n?vitan? [barber], kuyavan? [potter], ta???n? [goldsmith], kan?n??n? [brazier], kar?r?accan? [mason], kollan? [blacksmith], taccan? [carpenter], e??eyv??ikan? [oil merchant], uppuv??ikan? [salt merchant], ilaiv??ikan? [betel merchant], pa??i [watchman], p?m?laikk?ran? [garland maker], par?aiyan? [Dalit, pariah], k?vilku?iy?n? [conch-blower], occan? [? another Dalit community], valaiyan? [fisherman], p??an? [tailor]. /// > > > 1. Re: The term "caste." You can start from the entry in wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caste. > > 2. The Portuguese started using the term "casta" when they came to the southern part of Tamilnadu (in the 16-th century) and tried to learn Tamil and describe Tamil in Portuguese for the sake of further missionary activities. "Casta" was the term they used to describe the various groups of people they noticed in the local society. I happened to have the opportunity to work through the Portuguese manuscript (from 1549 A.D.), by Fr. Henrique Henriques, which describes Tamil in Portuguese. As a "Latin grammarian," Henriques had problems categorizing people's local names when doing the declensions. So ? when he lists a set of local names for the first declension, he says, "Names for occupations. Such nouns for occupations are also nouns of castes." For further details, please see our book "The Earliest Missionary Grammar, Harvard University Press, 2013." > > 3. Re: Madras Tamil Lexicon entries. Well ? there are discrepancies. For example, if anyone seriously wants to study the history of "castes" or any such thing, one should also look at all their entries beginning with the root/stem of the word. Just for fun, try all the words starting with the stem "ku?i," and you'll see that words such as "ku?imaka?," "ku?imakka?," and so on don't have contiguous semantics. > > 4. The term "c?ti/????/????" was never restricted to refer to humans in order to indicate high/low status. It just referred to different types of living beings. > > 5. There was no indication of "untouchability" in the Tamil society as reflected in early Tamil poems. > > 6. Even when Fr. Henriques (16-th century) listed the names/nouns for people in the Tamil land where he lived and served, he never indicated that there was "untouchability" due to the existence of certain people. > > ++++++++++++ > > It IS sad that some modern socio-anthro studies have presented local cultures in ways that the locals cannot understand or accept. To me, it all looks like a cookie-cutter analysis for individual academic progress. > > Thanks and regards, > Rajam > > > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > http://listinfo.indology.info -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ambapradeep at gmail.com Wed Oct 16 10:22:08 2013 From: ambapradeep at gmail.com (Amba Kulkarni) Date: Wed, 16 Oct 13 15:52:08 +0530 Subject: [INDOLOGY] CFP: Sanskrit and the IT world: 16th WSC Message-ID: Dear list members, (Apologies for cross postings) The 16th WSC details are already posted on the IASS website ( http://www.sanskritassociation.org/images/pdf/16th-WORLD-SANSKRIT-CONFERENCE.pdf ). We invite one page abstracts (long abstracts or full papers are also welcome) in the following areas: A) Relevance of Sanskrit Shastras to the contemporary IT issues -- Vyaakara.na -- Nyaaya -- Miimaansaa -- Chandashaastra -- alankaara shaastra -- nirukta, etc. B) Use of IT for -- Processing of Sanskrit texts, script and speech -- Modeling A.s.taadhyaayii -- Sanskrit Lexicography -- Sanskrit manuscripts accessibility -- critical edition, collation, multi-layer architecture -- search engines, information retrieval, etc. This list of topics is only indicative. Important Dates are: Submission of Abstract begins on: 15th June 2013 Submission of abstracts closes on: 15th April 2015 Notification of Abstract acceptance begins from: 15th October 2013 Please send the abstracts to worldsanskrit at hotmail.com <16wsc at gmail.com>with a subject line' abstract for 19: Sanskrit and the IT World' with a copy to vc9999999 at gmail.com We prefer full papers, or at least long abstracts (3-4 pages) with proper references. We plan to bring out the proceedings of the selected edited papers soon after the conference. Vineet Chaitanya -- Convener Amba Kulkarni, and Juergen Hanneder -- Co-Conveners Sanskrit and the IT World 16th WSC, Thailand 27th June - 02nd July 2015 ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- ? ?? ?????: ?????? ????? ??????: ll Let noble thoughts come to us from every side. - Rig Veda, I-89-i. Assoc Prof. and Head Department of Sanskrit Studies University of Hyderabad Prof. C.R. Rao Road Hyderabad-500 046 (91) 040 23133802(off) http://sanskrit.uohyd.ernet.in/scl http://sanskrit.uohyd.ernet.in/faculty/amba -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From vitus.angermeier at univie.ac.at Wed Oct 16 10:49:54 2013 From: vitus.angermeier at univie.ac.at (Vitus Angermeier) Date: Wed, 16 Oct 13 12:49:54 +0200 Subject: [INDOLOGY] vikira - a body of water? Message-ID: Dear Colleagues, I've never posted to this list before but got a lot of great information by reading Your messages over the last years. Thank you all for that! I am a PhD-Student at the University of Vienna working on water in classical Ayurveda. At the moment I am struggling with the meaning of vikira as it is used in one instance in the Su?rutasa?hit? (1.54.4) in a list of bodies of water. Su?ruta tells us nothing about it but the Commentator ?alha?a explains: vikira? v?luk?di vik?rya g?hyam??odakasth?na? which I understand as "vikira is a body of water which gets visible after sand was dispersed." That doesen't help me much at the moment and I couldn't find other occurrences of the word, which could clarify the meaning. I'd be very happy about any helpful advices. Best, Vitus Angermeier -- Vitus Angermeier Institut f?r S?dasien-, Tibet- und Buddhismuskunde Universit?t Wien Spitalgasse 2-4/2.1 A-1090 Wien Tel.: ++43-(0)1-4277 435 17 mail: vitus.angermeier at univie.ac.at From christellebarois at wanadoo.fr Wed Oct 16 10:59:00 2013 From: christellebarois at wanadoo.fr (=?utf-8?Q?Christ=C3=A8le_Barois?=) Date: Wed, 16 Oct 13 12:59:00 +0200 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Article/request In-Reply-To: <6513caaf4627109738da9158f4ac0d83.squirrel@webmail.rci.rutgers.edu> Message-ID: <05306849515F45B89EE277B0C76BAE97@PCdeChristle> I thank you very much John Brockington for his warm message and his proposal to send "The Puranas - Priestly or Popular ?", and Edwin Bryant, for sending a pdf version to all members. With my best wishes, Christ?le Barois ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "Howard Resnick"
Cc: "Indology List" Sent: Tuesday, October 15, 2013 8:04 PM Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] Article/request > Friends, > > Attached is the recently requested article 'Puranas Priestly or Popular.' > > Best wishes, EB -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > http://listinfo.indology.info From adheesh1 at gmail.com Wed Oct 16 13:44:56 2013 From: adheesh1 at gmail.com (Adheesh Sathaye) Date: Wed, 16 Oct 13 15:44:56 +0200 Subject: [INDOLOGY] vikira - a body of water? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Dear Vitus, Perhaps it is related to a "ni?yandaja" (trickle-born) type of water described in the p?nabhoga section of the M?nasoll?sa of Some?vara: (verse 1609 in vol. 2, p137) v?luk?su karair garta? k?tv? yat pr?pyate jalam | utk?epa?ena nairmalya? y?ti ni?yandaja? hi tat || this water seems to be created by digging a hole in the sandy banks of the river, and letting it fill up with (river) water. The water moving up (utk?epa?a) through the sand gives it filtration (nairmalyam). so perhaps the "vik?rya" in your sentence corresponds to this utk?epa?a. I'm not terribly convinced by my own explanation, however. Best wishes, Adheesh ---- Adheesh Sathaye Department of Asian Studies University of British Columbia On Oct 16, 2013, at 12:49 PM, Vitus Angermeier wrote: > Dear Colleagues, > I've never posted to this list before but got a lot of great information > by reading Your messages over the last years. Thank you all for that! > I am a PhD-Student at the University of Vienna working on water in > classical Ayurveda. > > At the moment I am struggling with the meaning of vikira as it is used in > one instance in the Su?rutasa?hit? (1.54.4) in a list of bodies of water. > Su?ruta tells us nothing about it but the Commentator ?alha?a explains: > vikira? v?luk?di vik?rya g?hyam??odakasth?na? > which I understand as "vikira is a body of water which gets visible after > sand was dispersed." > > That doesen't help me much at the moment and I couldn't find other > occurrences of the word, which could clarify the meaning. > > I'd be very happy about any helpful advices. > > Best, > Vitus Angermeier > > > -- > Vitus Angermeier > Institut f?r S?dasien-, Tibet- und Buddhismuskunde > Universit?t Wien > Spitalgasse 2-4/2.1 > A-1090 Wien > > Tel.: ++43-(0)1-4277 435 17 > mail: vitus.angermeier at univie.ac.at > > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > http://listinfo.indology.info From tubb at uchicago.edu Wed Oct 16 13:59:52 2013 From: tubb at uchicago.edu (Gary Tubb) Date: Wed, 16 Oct 13 08:59:52 -0500 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Hindi position at UChicago Message-ID: <525E9BD8.50202@uchicago.edu> The Department of South Asian Languages and Civilizations, University of Chicago, invites applications for a tenure-track position at the level of Assistant Professor in Hindi language and literature, with a preferred start date of July 1, 2014. . Candidates working in pre-modern and/or modern Hindi are welcome to apply. Conferral of PhD by June 30, 2014 is highly preferred, and PhD degree must be conferred within one year of start date. Teaching duties are a minimum of four courses per year, usually distributed over three quarters (autumn, winter, spring). Among the four courses taught, one must be offered in an undergraduate College Core sequence. The remaining three will include Hindi language classes at the advanced (Third-Fourth year) level, as well as individually devised graduate seminars. Applications should include a cover letter, CV, three letters of reference, teaching evaluations (if available), sample syllabi, and at least one sample of recent writing. None are returnable. Cover letter and CV must be submitted via the Academic Careers Website at: https://academiccareers.uchicago.edu, posting #01908. Hard copies of all application materials should be mailed to: HINDI SEARCH South Asian Languages and Civilizations University of Chicago 1130 E. 59th Street, Chicago IL 60637-1543 U.S.A For full consideration, all application materials must be received by November 30, 2013. Review of applications will continue until the position is filled. No applications will be considered which arrive after January 15, 2014. The University of Chicago is an Affirmative Action/Equal Opportunity Employer. http://tinyurl.com/Indrd8f -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rohana.seneviratne at orinst.ox.ac.uk Wed Oct 16 15:37:23 2013 From: rohana.seneviratne at orinst.ox.ac.uk (Rohana Seneviratne) Date: Wed, 16 Oct 13 15:37:23 +0000 Subject: [INDOLOGY] vikira - a body of water? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <263AADEB1C61774CB059F93BD3A6940B0C9684@MBX06.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> I also agree with Adheesh, Best Wishes, Rohana ------------------------------------------------ Rohana Seneviratne DPhil Student in Sanskrit The Oriental Institute Faculty of Oriental Studies University of Oxford Pusey Lane, Oxford OX1 2LE United Kingdom Email: rohana.seneviratne at orinst.ox.ac.uk Web: http://users.ox.ac.uk/~pemb3753/ ________________________________________ From: INDOLOGY [indology-bounces at list.indology.info] on behalf of Adheesh Sathaye [adheesh1 at gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, October 16, 2013 2:44 PM To: Vitus Angermeier Cc: indology at list.indology.info Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] vikira - a body of water? Dear Vitus, Perhaps it is related to a "ni?yandaja" (trickle-born) type of water described in the p?nabhoga section of the M?nasoll?sa of Some?vara: (verse 1609 in vol. 2, p137) v?luk?su karair garta? k?tv? yat pr?pyate jalam | utk?epa?ena nairmalya? y?ti ni?yandaja? hi tat || this water seems to be created by digging a hole in the sandy banks of the river, and letting it fill up with (river) water. The water moving up (utk?epa?a) through the sand gives it filtration (nairmalyam). so perhaps the "vik?rya" in your sentence corresponds to this utk?epa?a. I'm not terribly convinced by my own explanation, however. Best wishes, Adheesh ---- Adheesh Sathaye Department of Asian Studies University of British Columbia On Oct 16, 2013, at 12:49 PM, Vitus Angermeier wrote: > Dear Colleagues, > I've never posted to this list before but got a lot of great information > by reading Your messages over the last years. Thank you all for that! > I am a PhD-Student at the University of Vienna working on water in > classical Ayurveda. > > At the moment I am struggling with the meaning of vikira as it is used in > one instance in the Su?rutasa?hit? (1.54.4) in a list of bodies of water. > Su?ruta tells us nothing about it but the Commentator ?alha?a explains: > vikira? v?luk?di vik?rya g?hyam??odakasth?na? > which I understand as "vikira is a body of water which gets visible after > sand was dispersed." > > That doesen't help me much at the moment and I couldn't find other > occurrences of the word, which could clarify the meaning. > > I'd be very happy about any helpful advices. > > Best, > Vitus Angermeier > > > -- > Vitus Angermeier > Institut f?r S?dasien-, Tibet- und Buddhismuskunde > Universit?t Wien > Spitalgasse 2-4/2.1 > A-1090 Wien > > Tel.: ++43-(0)1-4277 435 17 > mail: vitus.angermeier at univie.ac.at > > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > http://listinfo.indology.info _______________________________________________ INDOLOGY mailing list INDOLOGY at list.indology.info http://listinfo.indology.info From rohana.seneviratne at orinst.ox.ac.uk Wed Oct 16 15:44:36 2013 From: rohana.seneviratne at orinst.ox.ac.uk (Rohana Seneviratne) Date: Wed, 16 Oct 13 15:44:36 +0000 Subject: [INDOLOGY] vikira - a body of water? In-Reply-To: <263AADEB1C61774CB059F93BD3A6940B0C9684@MBX06.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: <263AADEB1C61774CB059F93BD3A6940B0C9693@MBX06.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> Apologies, the previous email slipped off before completing. Vikara sound exactly what Adheesh means. To?ar?nanda in his Ayurveda Saukhyam (Verse 14. 49 ) says clearly as follows. nady?dinika?e bh?mir y? bhaved v?luk?may? udbh?vyate tato yat tu tajjala? vikira? vidu? Vikara is the water that is 'taken out by digging a small hole in the sand river bed'. Then the water seeps through sand. The quality and benefits of vikara water are described in the next verse. Best Wishes, Rohana ------------------------------------------------ Rohana Seneviratne DPhil Student in Sanskrit The Oriental Institute Faculty of Oriental Studies University of Oxford Pusey Lane, Oxford OX1 2LE United Kingdom Email: rohana.seneviratne at orinst.ox.ac.uk Web: http://users.ox.ac.uk/~pemb3753/ ________________________________________ From: Rohana Seneviratne Sent: Wednesday, October 16, 2013 4:37 PM To: Adheesh Sathaye; Vitus Angermeier Cc: indology at list.indology.info Subject: RE: [INDOLOGY] vikira - a body of water? I also agree with Adheesh, Best Wishes, Rohana ------------------------------------------------ Rohana Seneviratne DPhil Student in Sanskrit The Oriental Institute Faculty of Oriental Studies University of Oxford Pusey Lane, Oxford OX1 2LE United Kingdom Email: rohana.seneviratne at orinst.ox.ac.uk Web: http://users.ox.ac.uk/~pemb3753/ ________________________________________ From: INDOLOGY [indology-bounces at list.indology.info] on behalf of Adheesh Sathaye [adheesh1 at gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, October 16, 2013 2:44 PM To: Vitus Angermeier Cc: indology at list.indology.info Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] vikira - a body of water? Dear Vitus, Perhaps it is related to a "ni?yandaja" (trickle-born) type of water described in the p?nabhoga section of the M?nasoll?sa of Some?vara: (verse 1609 in vol. 2, p137) v?luk?su karair garta? k?tv? yat pr?pyate jalam | utk?epa?ena nairmalya? y?ti ni?yandaja? hi tat || this water seems to be created by digging a hole in the sandy banks of the river, and letting it fill up with (river) water. The water moving up (utk?epa?a) through the sand gives it filtration (nairmalyam). so perhaps the "vik?rya" in your sentence corresponds to this utk?epa?a. I'm not terribly convinced by my own explanation, however. Best wishes, Adheesh ---- Adheesh Sathaye Department of Asian Studies University of British Columbia On Oct 16, 2013, at 12:49 PM, Vitus Angermeier wrote: > Dear Colleagues, > I've never posted to this list before but got a lot of great information > by reading Your messages over the last years. Thank you all for that! > I am a PhD-Student at the University of Vienna working on water in > classical Ayurveda. > > At the moment I am struggling with the meaning of vikira as it is used in > one instance in the Su?rutasa?hit? (1.54.4) in a list of bodies of water. > Su?ruta tells us nothing about it but the Commentator ?alha?a explains: > vikira? v?luk?di vik?rya g?hyam??odakasth?na? > which I understand as "vikira is a body of water which gets visible after > sand was dispersed." > > That doesen't help me much at the moment and I couldn't find other > occurrences of the word, which could clarify the meaning. > > I'd be very happy about any helpful advices. > > Best, > Vitus Angermeier > > > -- > Vitus Angermeier > Institut f?r S?dasien-, Tibet- und Buddhismuskunde > Universit?t Wien > Spitalgasse 2-4/2.1 > A-1090 Wien > > Tel.: ++43-(0)1-4277 435 17 > mail: vitus.angermeier at univie.ac.at > > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > http://listinfo.indology.info _______________________________________________ INDOLOGY mailing list INDOLOGY at list.indology.info http://listinfo.indology.info From rohana.seneviratne at orinst.ox.ac.uk Wed Oct 16 15:48:15 2013 From: rohana.seneviratne at orinst.ox.ac.uk (Rohana Seneviratne) Date: Wed, 16 Oct 13 15:48:15 +0000 Subject: [INDOLOGY] vikira - a body of water? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <263AADEB1C61774CB059F93BD3A6940B0C96A3@MBX06.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> See: Ayurveda Saukhyam of Todarananda Materia Medica of Ayurveda - p. 221. (http://archive.org/details/MateriaMedicaOfAyurveda) Best Wishes, Rohana ------------------------------------------------ Rohana Seneviratne DPhil Student in Sanskrit The Oriental Institute Faculty of Oriental Studies University of Oxford Pusey Lane, Oxford OX1 2LE United Kingdom Email: rohana.seneviratne at orinst.ox.ac.uk Web: http://users.ox.ac.uk/~pemb3753/ ________________________________________ From: INDOLOGY [indology-bounces at list.indology.info] on behalf of Adheesh Sathaye [adheesh1 at gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, October 16, 2013 2:44 PM To: Vitus Angermeier Cc: indology at list.indology.info Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] vikira - a body of water? Dear Vitus, Perhaps it is related to a "ni?yandaja" (trickle-born) type of water described in the p?nabhoga section of the M?nasoll?sa of Some?vara: (verse 1609 in vol. 2, p137) v?luk?su karair garta? k?tv? yat pr?pyate jalam | utk?epa?ena nairmalya? y?ti ni?yandaja? hi tat || this water seems to be created by digging a hole in the sandy banks of the river, and letting it fill up with (river) water. The water moving up (utk?epa?a) through the sand gives it filtration (nairmalyam). so perhaps the "vik?rya" in your sentence corresponds to this utk?epa?a. I'm not terribly convinced by my own explanation, however. Best wishes, Adheesh ---- Adheesh Sathaye Department of Asian Studies University of British Columbia On Oct 16, 2013, at 12:49 PM, Vitus Angermeier wrote: > Dear Colleagues, > I've never posted to this list before but got a lot of great information > by reading Your messages over the last years. Thank you all for that! > I am a PhD-Student at the University of Vienna working on water in > classical Ayurveda. > > At the moment I am struggling with the meaning of vikira as it is used in > one instance in the Su?rutasa?hit? (1.54.4) in a list of bodies of water. > Su?ruta tells us nothing about it but the Commentator ?alha?a explains: > vikira? v?luk?di vik?rya g?hyam??odakasth?na? > which I understand as "vikira is a body of water which gets visible after > sand was dispersed." > > That doesen't help me much at the moment and I couldn't find other > occurrences of the word, which could clarify the meaning. > > I'd be very happy about any helpful advices. > > Best, > Vitus Angermeier > > > -- > Vitus Angermeier > Institut f?r S?dasien-, Tibet- und Buddhismuskunde > Universit?t Wien > Spitalgasse 2-4/2.1 > A-1090 Wien > > Tel.: ++43-(0)1-4277 435 17 > mail: vitus.angermeier at univie.ac.at > > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > http://listinfo.indology.info _______________________________________________ INDOLOGY mailing list INDOLOGY at list.indology.info http://listinfo.indology.info From elisa.freschi at gmail.com Wed Oct 16 18:07:40 2013 From: elisa.freschi at gmail.com (elisa freschi) Date: Wed, 16 Oct 13 20:07:40 +0200 Subject: [INDOLOGY] EAAA Conference---panel on reuse in visual and performative arts in South Asia Message-ID: <3C5B9D1C-0324-40A3-A689-163BCF47A33E@gmail.com> Dear friends and respected colleagues, After years of separate work on the topic of reuse (applied to texts, concepts and images, see the volume Re-Use 2012, edited by J. Hegewald; the panel on reuse at the 2013 DOT, and the one at the 2012 CBC), we (Cristina Bignami, Elisa Freschi and Julia Hegewald) now joined forces to organize a panel for the next EAAA conference in September 2014 (http://www.ea-aaa.eu/). The provisional title is "Reuse at the Borders of South Asia: Himalayas and South India". If you have been working on the topic of reuse or are willing to work through this approach on South Indian or, preferably, Him?layan materials, contact us. However, please note that we need to send the panel proposal by November the 15th, thus we would need to get in touch with us as soon as possible and to receive your title and abstract (around 250 words) by November the 1st. Bibliography: Hegewald, Julia A. B., and Subrata Kumar Mitra (eds.). 2012. Re-use: the art and politics of integration and anxiety. New Delhi, India: SAGE. Freschi, Elisa (2012) "Proposals for the study of quotations in Indian philosophical texts". In Religions of South Asia, 6, pp. 161--189. Bignami, Cristina (forthcoming) "Re-use in the art field: the iconography of Yak??". In Elisa Freschi (ed.), The re-use of texts in Indian philosophy. (see: http://www.academia.edu/4787183/_Re-use_in_the_art_field_the_iconography_of_Yak_i_) Other workshops and conferences on this topic organised by us: 2008 ?Re-use: The Art and Politics of Integration and Anxiety? (Julia Hegewald with Subrata K. Mitra), European Conference on Modern South Asian Studies, The University of Manchester (http://www.arts.manchester.ac.uk/ecmsas/panels/ecmsaspanel33to41/) 2012 "Quotations and re-use of texts in Sanskrit ??stras" (Elisa Freschi), Coffee Break Conference, "Sapienza" University of Rome (http://asiatica.wikispaces.com/quotations+and+re-use+of+texts+in+Sanskrit+texts ) 2013 "Adaptive Reuse of Texts, Ideas and Images" (Elisa Freschi with Philipp Maas), Deutscher Orientalisten Tag, M?nster. (http://www.dot2013.de/programm/abstracts/abstracts-indologie-und-sudasienkunde/panel-adaptive-reuse-of-texts-ideas-and-images/ ) Dr. Elisa Freschi Institute for the Cultural and Intellectual History of Asia Austrian Academy of Sciences Apostelgasse 23 1030 Vienna Austria Phone +43 1 51581 6433 Fax +43 1 51581 6410 http://elisafreschi.com http://oeaw.academia.edu/elisafreschi -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From McComas.Taylor at anu.edu.au Thu Oct 17 11:09:38 2013 From: McComas.Taylor at anu.edu.au (McComas Taylor) Date: Thu, 17 Oct 13 11:09:38 +0000 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Shalihotra Samhita Message-ID: Dear colleagues Can anyone help Catherine with this source? Please respond directly to her off-group at vajracat at gmail.com Thanks in advance McComas --- I am searching for an english language translation of Shalihotra Samhita. Sorry for using a wiki link but it gives the most concise overview. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shalihotra I have searched online, google scholar, anu library, trove etc but can not find the source material, only references to it. Could you suggest where I might look? I have the Tibetan version but as there are several references to an English translation from Sanskrit, I am trying to locate this version. Kind regards, Catherine -- Catherine Schuetze PhD Candidate, Australia National University, Canberra, Australia Ph: +61- 0468-311932 (Australia mobile) Ph: +91- 098166-49149 (India Mobile) E: vajracat at gmail.com www.vetsbeyondborders.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From wujastyk at gmail.com Wed Oct 23 16:50:37 2013 From: wujastyk at gmail.com (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Wed, 23 Oct 13 18:50:37 +0200 Subject: [INDOLOGY] blip in service Message-ID: ?Through an oversight of mine, the INDOLOGY management pages, like http://listinfo.indology.info, and the archives etc., have been offline for a few days. My apologies for not realizing the nature of the problem until now. I have fixed things, and we're back to normal. Dominik Wujastyk INDOLOGY committee member -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ambapradeep at gmail.com Wed Oct 23 16:55:32 2013 From: ambapradeep at gmail.com (Amba Kulkarni) Date: Wed, 23 Oct 13 22:25:32 +0530 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Fwd: Devanagari -- vedic mark encoding and position In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Following message which I posted 3 days back is not delivered, and hence posting again. -- Amba Kulkarni ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Amba Kulkarni Date: 20 October 2013 08:26 Subject: Devanagari -- vedic mark encoding and position To: "indology at list.indology.info" Dear list members, I am forwarding a mail I received regarding the placing of Vedic accent marks vis-a-vis the vowel and nasalised markers. The scholars may please write to Steve White directly. With regards, Amba Kulkarni ===================================================================== ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve White" Sent: 10/03/13 02:50 PM To: Sanskrit Team member Subject: Re: Devanagari test file -- vedic mark encoding and position Hi Nandu, I will attempt to "pose the question" as best I can. (although several very good responses have been given already.) Question 1B is pretty well answered. The others seem to be debatable. Q1: Are there prescribed encoding orders for vedic tone marks relative to A) nasalizations (anusvara, visarga, candribindu) and B) vowel marks (matra)? Q2: what is the preferred graphical position of vedic tone marks relative to these same other sets of marks? ---------------------------------------- I should point out there are three distinct "orders" of letters and marks: 1) the phonological, or "logical" order 2) the order the letters are input or typed 3) the encoding order, in which they should appear in Unicode text 4) the order they should or may be displayed (but often a mark is displayed over or under another, position isn't really an "order".) Different replies on this thread have addressed different ones of these. ---------------------------------------- Since I first started asking these questions, I've revisited the relevant Unicode and OpenType documents. And it's clear why this is problematic. The current documents don't quite answer the questions. * Unicode Book Chapter 4 Character Properties * Unicode Book Chapter 9 South Asian Scripts I http://www.unicode.org/versions/Unicode6.3.0/ * OpenType terms - especially the "Notation" section http://www.microsoft.com/typography/otfntdev/indicot/terms.htm * OpenType on Indic Shaping Engine http://www.microsoft.com/typography/otfntdev/indicot/shaping.htm The Unicde and OpenType standards are pretty clear regarding the *encoding* order of tone marks with respect to vowels and consonants. OpenType clearly shows [VM] + [SM] (vowel marks before stress/tone marks) (And I now realize: the inherant 'a' of each consonant makes it consistent to attach these directly to a consonant glyph.) ---------------------------------------- However, under any interpretation of the docs I have been able to imagine, I do not see anywhere an explicit statement of where nasalizations (bindus) such as anusvara and candrabindu may appear in the encoding, particularly, where they may be encoded with respect to tone marks. There is one rough statement in the Unicode doc "These marks indicate nasalization or final nasal closure of a syllable" But does that mean, their encoding must antecede all other marks in the syllable? Unicode classifies most of the Indic marks with the interesting word "reorderant", which I gather to mean their graphcal representation might not follow the encoding... I'm really not sure what it means. Am I missing something? Steve AND A FOLLOW-UP ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve White" Sent: 10/05/13 03:44 PM To: Sanskrit Team member Subject: Re: Devanagari test file -- vedic mark encoding and position Hi again, Let me give concrete examples of the problem. Below are HTML strings, using Unicode character codes, together with the Unicode they produce. These are not rendered properly on Windows or Linux, although the encodings are right, to the best of my understanding (of answers from your colleagues and from my readings of the standards). ka+visarga+bindu कःं ??? ka+udatta+bindu क॑ं ??? This seems not to be a font issue, but rather a behavior of the font shaping engine. The effect happens in any font with the capacity to show a mismatched mark with a dotted circle. (Curiously, I made a font with the positioning tables built in for these encodings, but neglected to provide dotted circle. The marks were positioned correctly!! I have no explanation for this.) With the Siddhanta font and Windows fonts, a different encoding works: ka+bindu+udatta कं॑ ??? This is handled by Windows and Linux. But my understanding was, the bindu should come last! Your thoughts will be much appreciated! -- ? ?? ?????: ?????? ????? ??????: ll Let noble thoughts come to us from every side. - Rig Veda, I-89-i. Assoc Prof. and Head Department of Sanskrit Studies University of Hyderabad Prof. C.R. Rao Road Hyderabad-500 046 (91) 040 23133802(off) http://sanskrit.uohyd.ernet.in/scl http://sanskrit.uohyd.ernet.in/faculty/amba -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From james.hartzell at gmail.com Wed Oct 23 09:53:29 2013 From: james.hartzell at gmail.com (James Hartzell) Date: Wed, 23 Oct 13 11:53:29 +0200 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Katyayana's Shrauta Sutra In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Dear Colleagues I want to thank Madhav Deshpande for sending a pdf of the Chowkambha edition of Katyayana's Srauta Sutra. Their text is however flawed, with many of the KS Sutras missing. If anyone might have a scan of Ganesh Umakant Thite's 1900 edition that would be most welcome. Cheers James On Sun, Sep 15, 2013 at 12:03 PM, James Hartzell wrote: > Might anyone be able to send me a pdf or digitized version of Katyayana's > Shrauta Sutra? > > I've looked on archive.org, TITUS, GRETL, and http://sanskritdocuments.organd SARIT. > > Cheers > James > > -- > James Hartzell, PhD > Center for Mind/Brain Sciences (CIMeC) > The University of Trento, Italy > -- James Hartzell, PhD Center for Mind/Brain Sciences (CIMeC) The University of Trento, Italy -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From wujastyk at gmail.com Wed Oct 23 17:14:43 2013 From: wujastyk at gmail.com (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Wed, 23 Oct 13 19:14:43 +0200 Subject: [INDOLOGY] test of html - please ignore Message-ID: - ?bullet - bullet indent 1. number 2. number 3. font font 4. font font 5. colour colour colour -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mmdesh at umich.edu Wed Oct 23 18:45:03 2013 From: mmdesh at umich.edu (Madhav Deshpande) Date: Wed, 23 Oct 13 14:45:03 -0400 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Katyayana's Shrauta Sutra In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Please check the date of Thite's edition. Ganesh Umakant Thite, who is two years older than me, was not even born in 1900. Madhav On Wed, Oct 23, 2013 at 5:53 AM, James Hartzell wrote: > Dear Colleagues > > I want to thank Madhav Deshpande for sending a pdf of the Chowkambha > edition of Katyayana's Srauta Sutra. Their text is however flawed, with > many of the KS Sutras missing. > > If anyone might have a scan of Ganesh Umakant Thite's 1900 edition that > would be most welcome. > > Cheers > James > > > > > On Sun, Sep 15, 2013 at 12:03 PM, James Hartzell > wrote: > >> Might anyone be able to send me a pdf or digitized version of Katyayana's >> Shrauta Sutra? >> >> I've looked on archive.org, TITUS, GRETL, and >> http://sanskritdocuments.org and SARIT. >> >> Cheers >> James >> >> -- >> James Hartzell, PhD >> Center for Mind/Brain Sciences (CIMeC) >> The University of Trento, Italy >> > > > > -- > James Hartzell, PhD > Center for Mind/Brain Sciences (CIMeC) > The University of Trento, Italy > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > http://listinfo.indology.info > -- Madhav M. Deshpande Professor of Sanskrit and Linguistics Department of Asian Languages and Cultures 202 South Thayer Street, Suite 6111 The University of Michigan Ann Arbor, MI 48104-1608, USA -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From veerankp at gmail.com Tue Oct 22 17:49:38 2013 From: veerankp at gmail.com (Veeranarayana Pandurangi) Date: Tue, 22 Oct 13 23:19:38 +0530 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Mahaabhaarata Seminar anouncement Message-ID: sorry for cross posting. Dating of the Mah?bh?rata War and Mah?bh?rata Text and Its Parts Jagadguru Ramanandacharya Rajsthan Sanskrita University An International Seminar on 16-18 January 2014 Jaipur Much scattered writing exists on the chronology of the Mah?bh?rata or of its important books and sections such as the Bhagavad-gita. No wide-ranging survey or sustained exploration of the issue of dating the MB or its parts has been attempted in recent times, although such a dating is of crucial importance for constructing the history of ancient India. The main purposes of the proposed seminar will be (a) to make an attempt of the suggested kind, (b) to come up with well-supported new conclusions and (c) to submit old conclusions to a critical examination following the principles of sound historical investigation. Original papers based on different assumptions, following various methodologies and concentrating on all topics that could ultimately be helpful in creating a chronological frame for the MB are hereby solicited. The paper presenters should work with primary sources. Writings entirely or mainly dependent on translations will not be accepted. The critical edition of the Mahaabhaarata published by the Bhandarkar Oriental Research Institute, Pune, should be the main basis *as far as possible.* If the relevant part has been relegated to a footnote or appendix in the critical edition that fact should be mentioned. If the discussion is useful to point out the specific problems or limitations of the critical edition that should be stated The volumes of the Cultural Index to the Mahaabhaarata being published by the Bhandarkar Oriental Research Institute and the volumes, especially the introductions and notes parts of the MB translation being published by the University of Chicago Press should be taken into account, as well as the commentaries in Sanskrit and regional languages of India, to the extent they would be helpful in dealing with the chosen topic. Roman transliteration of Sanskrit and other Indic languages should be as close to the standard international system as possible. -- Veeranarayana N.K. Pandurangi Head, Dept of Darshanas, Yoganandacharya Bhavan, Jagadguru Ramanandacharya Rajasthan Samskrita University, Madau, post Bhankrota, Jaipur, 302026. India ?? ??????????? ??????? ???????? ? ????????? ??? ???????? ??????? ? ?????? ??????????????? ?????????????? ??????? ??????? ??????????? ??????????????? ?????? ???????? ??????????? (?.??.) http://jrrsanskrituniversity.ac.in/ http://jrrsanskrituniversity.ac.in/acd1.asp https://groups.google.com/forum/?hl=en&fromgroups#!forum/bvparishat -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ganesan at ifpindia.org Tue Oct 22 04:15:16 2013 From: ganesan at ifpindia.org (Dr. T. Ganesan) Date: Tue, 22 Oct 13 09:45:16 +0530 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Fwd: MB Seminar announcement In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <5265FBD4.4090307@ifpindia.org> Friends, I am forwarding this announcement in the Indology group on behalf of my friend, Veeranarayana Pandurangi of the group Bharatiya Vidvat parishat"". With many thnaks Ganesan ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: *Veeranarayana Pandurangi* > Date: Thu, Oct 17, 2013 at 11:19 PM Subject: {???????????????????} MB Seminar anouncement To: bvparishat > Dating of the Mah?bh?rata War and Mah?bh?rata Text and Its Parts Jagadguru Ramanandacharya Rajsthan Sanskrita University An International Seminar on 16-18 January 2014 Jaipur Much scattered writing exists on the chronology of the Mah?bh?rata or of its important books and sections such as the Bhagavad-gita. No wide-ranging survey or sustained exploration of the issue of dating the MB or its parts has been attempted in recent times, although such a dating is of crucial importance for constructing the history of ancient India. The main purposes of the proposed seminar will be (a) to make an attempt of the suggested kind, (b) to come up with well-supported new conclusions and (c) to submit old conclusions to a critical examination following the principles of sound historical investigation. Original papers based on different assumptions, following various methodologies and concentrating on all topics that could ultimately be helpful in creating a chronological frame for the MB are hereby solicited. The paper presenters should work with primary sources. Writings entirely or mainly dependent on translations will not be accepted. The critical edition of the Mahaabhaarata published by the Bhandarkar Oriental Research Institute, Pune, should be the main basis *as far as possible.* If the relevant part has been relegated to a footnote or appendix in the critical edition that fact should be mentioned. If the discussion is useful to point out the specific problems or limitations of the critical edition that should be stated The volumes of the Cultural Index to the Mahaabhaarata being published by the Bhandarkar Oriental Research Institute and the volumes, especially the introductions and notes parts of the MB translation being published by the University of Chicago Press should be taken into account, as well as the commentaries in Sanskrit and regional languages of India, to the extent they would be helpful in dealing with the chosen topic. Roman transliteration of Sanskrit and other Indic languages should be as close to the standard international system as possible. -- Veeranarayana N.K. Pandurangi Head, Dept of Darshanas, Yoganandacharya Bhavan, Jagadguru Ramanandacharya Rajasthan Samskrita University, Madau, post Bhankrota, Jaipur, 302026. India ?? ??????????? ??????? ???????? ? ????????? ??? ???????? ??????? ? ?????? ??????????????? ?????????????? ??????? ??????? ??????????? ??????????????? ?????? ???????? ??????????? (?.??.) http://jrrsanskrituniversity.ac.in/ http://jrrsanskrituniversity.ac.in/acd1.asp https://groups.google.com/forum/?hl=en&fromgroups#!forum/bvparishat -- -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From annamisia at yahoo.com Thu Oct 24 08:05:03 2013 From: annamisia at yahoo.com (Anna A. Slaczka) Date: Thu, 24 Oct 13 01:05:03 -0700 Subject: [INDOLOGY] AparaajitapRcchaa Message-ID: <1382601903.15680.YahooMailNeo@web125302.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Dear Colleagues, Does any of you have an e-version or a PDF of the treatise on architecture, the AparaajitapRcchaa? I would be grateful! With best wishes, Anna Slaczka Rijksmuseum, Amsterdam -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From annamisia at yahoo.com Thu Oct 24 12:14:14 2013 From: annamisia at yahoo.com (Anna A. Slaczka) Date: Thu, 24 Oct 13 05:14:14 -0700 Subject: [INDOLOGY] AparaajitapRcchaa Message-ID: <1382616854.89013.YahooMailNeo@web125303.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> I would like to thank Rohana Seneviratne and Madhav Deshpande for sending the text. One more proof how helpful this community can be! ? With best wishes, ? Anna Slaczka. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lyne.bansat-boudon at ephe.sorbonne.fr Thu Oct 24 17:54:12 2013 From: lyne.bansat-boudon at ephe.sorbonne.fr (Lyne BANSAT-BOUDON) Date: Thu, 24 Oct 13 19:54:12 +0200 Subject: [INDOLOGY] was "Question for European Indologists" Message-ID: <35F12404-F61D-4EB7-9119-7BB192A8DCD6@ephe.sorbonne.fr> Lyne Bansat-Boudon Directeur d'?tudes pour les Religions de l'Inde Ecole pratique des hautes ?tudes, section des sciences religieuses Membre senior honoraire de l'Institut universitaire de France -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lyne.bansat-boudon at ephe.sorbonne.fr Thu Oct 24 18:03:38 2013 From: lyne.bansat-boudon at ephe.sorbonne.fr (Lyne BANSAT-BOUDON) Date: Thu, 24 Oct 13 20:03:38 +0200 Subject: [INDOLOGY] was "Question for European Indologists" Message-ID: <804135B2-0CE5-498A-9B06-0853948D235D@ephe.sorbonne.fr> Chers coll?gues, On me permettra une contribution, un peu tardive, ? la tribune sur l?enseignement du sanskrit en Europe, et, en particulier, en France, telle qu??bauch?e par Christophe Vielle et Judit T?rzs?k. Cum grano salis. En guise de commentaire au message de Judit T?rzs?k (4 juillet 2013), je dirai que je suis ? l?origine de la tradition locale (indig?ne ?) du recours au ? Gonda ? (Manuel de grammaire ?l?mentaire de la langue sanskrite), tradition que j?ai moi-m?me re?ue de Charles Malamoud dont j?ai suivi, en 1969, une ann?e d?enseignement du sanskrit (et de ? grammaire compar?e des langues indo-europ?ennes, option sanscrit ?), ? l?Universit? de Nanterre, dans le d?partement d?ethnologie, alors dirig? par Olivier Herrenschmidt (il s?agissait d?une ? charge de cours ?, Charles Malamoud ?tant alors Directeur d??tudes ? l?EPHE, Section des sciences religieuses). Quand, en 1983, j?ai succ?d? ? Charles Malamoud, dans ce m?me d?partement et cette m?me fonction, j?ai perp?tu? la tradition, l?ouvrage de Gonda se r?v?lant particuli?rement commode en ce qu?il pr?sente la totalit? des paradigmes, en un excellent abr?g? grammatical, ainsi que des exercices intelligemment gradu?s et le lexique qui leur est n?cessaire. En ce sens, le Gonda me semble justifier son statut de ? manuel ?, ce qui n?est pas le cas de la Grammaire sanskrite ?l?mentaire de Renou, ? laquelle Ch. Vielle fait r?f?rence dans son message du 4 juillet 2013. N??tant pas une adepte des m?thodes ? d?immersion ?, j?avais jug? n?cessaire d?utiliser les paradigmes du Gonda comme point de d?part ? un expos? grammatical raisonn?, dans lequel je m?attachais ? mettre en ?vidence les principes ? l??uvre dans la phon?tique et la morphologie du sanskrit, en un mot, l?organisation logique de la langue. Comme compl?ment au manuel, je proposais ainsi une grammaire descriptive du sanskrit, et, quand cela s?av?rait utile pour comprendre la structure de la langue, une grammaire comparative. C?est ce m?me Gonda et cette m?me m?thode (compl?t?e par la lecture de textes : muktaka et ?uvres dramatiques, notamment) que j?ai, par la suite, utilis?s pendant les onze ann?es de mon enseignement ? Lille (1989-2000), et, depuis 2000, ? l?Ecole pratique des hautes ?tudes, dans le s?minaire bi-mensuel que je consacre ? des ? Questions de grammaire sanskrite ?, afin de proposer ? mes auditeurs et ?tudiants un cours qui vaut initiation pour les uns, perfectionnement pour les autres. Quand, en 2000, Judit T?rz?k m?a succ?d? ? l?universit? de Lille III, avec mon entier soutien, elle n?a pas chang? de manuel, m?me si la m?thode dont elle l?accompagne diff?re n?cessairement de la mienne. Ainsi ?voluent les traditions d?enseignement, ? locales ? ou non. Notons, du reste, que l?universit? de Lille peut se pr?valoir d?une tradition sanskritiste qui remonte ? Victor Henry, auteur d?un autre manuel, ?l?ments de sanscrit classique (1902). Tradition qui s?est vue revivifi?e, apr?s le d?part (en 1985) de Jean Naudou pour l?universit? d?Aix-en-Provence et quelques ann?es d??tiolement, avec un DUFL (Dipl?me universitaire de formation en langue) de sanskrit (distribu? sur trois ann?es) dont j?ai obtenu la cr?ation, et qui est toujours en place au sein du D?partement de Langues et Cultures Antiques. Cette relative pr?dilection pour le Gonda n?enl?ve rien aux m?rites d?autres manuels en langue fran?aise (encore que le Gonda dont nous parlons ne soit que la traduction fran?aise d?un original allemand, comme le rappelle Ch. Vielle), ni ? ces deux remarquables grammaires, ?uvres de Renou, que sont la Grammaire sanskrite ?l?mentaire (1945), et la Grammaire sanskrite (1935), que ses utilisateurs appellent affectueusement sa ? grosse ? grammaire. Quant ? la grammaire de Pierre-Sylvain Filliozat, Grammaire sanskrite p?nin?enne (1988), elle est pr?cieuse en ce qu?elle expose le point de vue de la tradition grammaticale indienne, mais peut-?tre difficile d?emploi pour une initiation au sanskrit destin?e ? des occidentaux. Au nombre de ces manuels en langue fran?aise, il convient de citer 1) le ? Bergaigne ?, autrement dit, le Manuel pour ?tudier la langue sanscrite (1883), que j?ai longuement fr?quent? en ma qualit? d??tudiante d?Armand Minard, impeccable grammairien qui exigeait de ses ?l?ves qu?ils en aient d?chiffr? les 222 stances avant le d?but des cours (Renou en soulignait la difficult?, prometteuse de succ?s ; Minard, lui-m?me, conc?dait que la ? voie royale trac?e par Bergaigne ? ?tait ? assez raboteuse ?) ; 2) les ?l?ments de sanscrit classique (1902) de Victor Henry, auxquels j?ai encore recours occasionnellement, pour certains exercices, notamment ; 3) les derniers en date : le manuel de Sylvain Brocquet, Grammaire ?l?mentaire et pratique du sanskrit classique (2010) et une m?thode Assimil de sanskrit, dont Nalini Balbir est l?auteur, et que je n?ai pas encore consult?e. Quant ? l?enseignement du sanskrit, il se donne ?galement ? Toulouse, avec les cours d?Yves Codet, associ? ? un enseignement de grammaire compar?e des langues classiques. Yves Codet utilise un petit manuel indien pour d?butants : le Sam?skr?taba?la?dars?ah? (Infant Reader) de Vidyasagar Sastri (1972, 31?me ?dition), qu?il a partiellement repens? en fonction du niveau de difficult? des exemples propos?s, et conseille la Grammaire sanskrite ?l?mentaire de Renou. Je conclurai en rappelant qu?il existe une ?cole indianiste fran?aise, illustr?e par de grands noms, dont la plupart ?taient des agr?g?s de grammaire (en l?occurrence, grammaire compar?e des langues indo-europ?ennes), sp?cificit? bien fran?aise, mais fort utile ? qui s?essaie ? p?n?trer les arcanes du sanskrit. Enfin, on me pardonnera d?avoir utilis?, ici, la langue fran?aise, autre tradition locale, en voie, semble- t-il, de pr?kritisation tacite. Il va sans dire que je suis pr?te ? en fournir une version anglaise, si n?cessaire. Sahr?dayam, Lyne Bansat-Boudon Lyne Bansat-Boudon Directeur d'?tudes pour les Religions de l'Inde Ecole pratique des hautes ?tudes, section des sciences religieuses Membre senior honoraire de l'Institut universitaire de France -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From christiancurrent at gmail.com Thu Oct 24 19:59:15 2013 From: christiancurrent at gmail.com (Christian Current) Date: Thu, 24 Oct 13 14:59:15 -0500 Subject: =?utf-8?Q?[INDOLOGY]_R=C4=81m=C4=81nand=C4=AB-s_and_Yoga_Upani=E1=B9=A3ad-s?= Message-ID: Dear list, I have come across several references to R?m?nand?'s studying Yoga Upani?ad-s as key texts (Ramdas Lamb, for instance in his article on the R?m?nand?'s for Gerald Larson's festschrift). So far I have been unable to confirm which Upani?ad-s they consider significant. I would be very grateful to be pointed to more information, particularly which faction(s) of the order and which of these texts specifically do they utilize. Any help would be most welcome. Many Thanks, Christian Current PhD Candidate The Department of Asian Studies University of Texas-Austin -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rrocher at sas.upenn.edu Thu Oct 24 20:43:16 2013 From: rrocher at sas.upenn.edu (Rosane Rocher) Date: Thu, 24 Oct 13 16:43:16 -0400 Subject: [INDOLOGY] was "Question for European Indologists" In-Reply-To: <804135B2-0CE5-498A-9B06-0853948D235D@ephe.sorbonne.fr> Message-ID: <52698664.1070303@sas.upenn.edu> Is the French /Manuel de grammaire ?l?mentaire de la langue sanskrite /to which reference has been made that which I translated from Gonda's original German (full title: /suivi d'exercices, de morceaux choisis et d'un lexique/, Brill, 1966, translator named on the back of the title page)? I would be delighted to know that it is still in use. I would also be interested to know when readings in devana-gari- are introduced in current classes. When I was a student in Brussels, the introductory course in Sanskrit was an "option" course set up for students in Greek and Latin classics who were interested in comparative lndo-European linguistics, and it was taught in transliteration for their (our) benefit. For those who, like me, developed a passion for Sanskrit and wished to pursue it further, devana-gari- was introduced as of the second year and then used exclusively. Is this still a common situation, or is Sanskrit now primarily taught for its own sake, with readings in devana-gari- right from the start? Rosane Rocher Professor Emerita of South Asia Studies University of Pennsylvania On 10/24/13 2:03 PM, Lyne BANSAT-BOUDON wrote: > > Chers coll?gues, > > On me permettra une contribution, un peu tardive, ? la tribune sur > l'enseignement du sanskrit en Europe, et, en particulier, en France, > telle qu'?bauch?e par Christophe Vielle et Judit T?rzs?k. /Cum grano > salis/. > > En guise de commentaire au message de Judit T?rzs?k (4 juillet 2013), > je dirai que je suis ? l'origine de la tradition locale (indig?ne ?) > du recours au ? Gonda ? (/Manuel de grammaire ?l?mentaire de la langue > sanskrite/), tradition que j'ai moi-m?me re?ue de Charles Malamoud > dont j'ai suivi, en 1969, une ann?e d'enseignement du sanskrit (et de > ? grammaire compar?e des langues indo-europ?ennes, option sanscrit ?), > ? l'Universit? de Nanterre, dans le d?partement d'ethnologie, alors > dirig? par Olivier Herrenschmidt (il s'agissait d'une ? charge de > cours ?, Charles Malamoud ?tant alors Directeur d'?tudes ? l'EPHE, > Section des sciences religieuses). > > Quand, en 1983, j'ai succ?d? ? Charles Malamoud, dans ce m?me > d?partement et cette m?me fonction, j'ai perp?tu? la tradition, > l'ouvrage de Gonda se r?v?lant particuli?rement commode en ce qu'il > pr?sente la totalit? des paradigmes, en un excellent abr?g? > grammatical, ainsi que des exercices intelligemment gradu?s et le > lexique qui leur est n?cessaire. En ce sens, le /Gonda/ me semble > justifier son statut de ? manuel ?, ce qui n'est pas le cas de la > /Grammaire sanskrite ?l?mentaire/ de Renou, ? laquelle Ch. Vielle fait > r?f?rence dans son message du 4 juillet 2013. > > N'?tant pas une adepte des m?thodes ? d'immersion ?, j'avais jug? > n?cessaire d'utiliser les paradigmes du /Gonda/ comme point de d?part > ? un expos? grammatical raisonn?, dans lequel je m'attachais ? mettre > en ?vidence les principes ? l'oeuvre dans la phon?tique et la > morphologie du sanskrit, en un mot, l'organisation logique de la > langue. Comme compl?ment au manuel, je proposais ainsi une grammaire > descriptive du sanskrit, et, quand cela s'av?rait utile pour > comprendre la structure de la langue, une grammaire comparative. > > C'est ce m?me /Gonda/ et cette m?me m?thode (compl?t?e par la lecture > de textes : /muktaka/ et oeuvres dramatiques, notamment) que j'ai, par > la suite, utilis?s pendant les onze ann?es de mon enseignement ? Lille > (1989-2000), et, depuis 2000, ? l'Ecole pratique des hautes ?tudes, > dans le s?minaire bi-mensuel que je consacre ? des ? Questions de > grammaire sanskrite ?, afin de proposer ? mes auditeurs et ?tudiants > un cours qui vaut initiation pour les uns, perfectionnement pour les > autres. > > Quand, en 2000, Judit T?rz?k m'a succ?d? ? l'universit? de Lille III, > avec mon entier soutien, elle n'a pas chang? de manuel, m?me si la > m?thode dont elle l'accompagne diff?re n?cessairement de la mienne. > Ainsi ?voluent les traditions d'enseignement, ? locales ? ou non. > > Notons, du reste, que l'universit? de Lille peut se pr?valoir d'une > tradition sanskritiste qui remonte ? Victor Henry, auteur d'un autre > manuel, /?l?ments de sanscrit classique/(1902). Tradition qui s'est > vue revivifi?e, apr?s le d?part (en 1985) de Jean Naudou pour > l'universit? d'Aix-en-Provence et quelques ann?es d'?tiolement, avec > un DUFL (Dipl?me universitaire de formation en langue) de sanskrit > (distribu? sur trois ann?es) dont j'ai obtenu la cr?ation, et qui est > toujours en place au sein du D?partement de Langues et Cultures Antiques. > > Cette relative pr?dilection pour le /Gonda/ n'enl?ve rien aux m?rites > d'autres manuels en langue fran?aise (encore que le /Gonda/ dont nous > parlons ne soit que la traduction fran?aise d'un original allemand, > comme le rappelle Ch. Vielle), ni ? ces deux remarquables grammaires, > oeuvres de Renou, que sont la /Grammaire sanskrite ?l?mentaire > /(1945), et la /Grammaire sanskrite/ (1935), que ses utilisateurs > appellent affectueusement sa ? grosse ? grammaire. Quant ? la > grammaire de Pierre-Sylvain Filliozat, /Grammaire sanskrite > p?nin?enne/ (1988), elle est pr?cieuse en ce qu'elle expose le point > de vue de la tradition grammaticale indienne, mais peut-?tre difficile > d'emploi pour une initiation au sanskrit destin?e ? des occidentaux. > > Au nombre de ces manuels en langue fran?aise, il convient de citer 1) > le ? Bergaigne ?, autrement dit, le /Manuel pour ?tudier la langue > sanscrite/(1883), que j'ai longuement fr?quent? en ma qualit? > d'?tudiante d'Armand Minard, impeccable grammairien qui exigeait de > ses ?l?ves qu'ils en aient d?chiffr? les 222 stances avant le d?but > des cours (Renou en soulignait la difficult?, prometteuse de succ?s ; > Minard, lui-m?me, conc?dait que la ? voie royale trac?e par > Bergaigne ? ?tait ? assez raboteuse ?) ; 2) les /?l?ments de sanscrit > classique/(1902) de Victor Henry, auxquels j'ai encore recours > occasionnellement, pour certains exercices, notamment ; 3) les > derniers en date : le manuel de Sylvain Brocquet, /Grammaire > ?l?mentaire et pratique du sanskrit classique/ (2010) et une m?thode > /Assimil/ de sanskrit, dont Nalini Balbir est l'auteur, et que je n'ai > pas encore consult?e. > > Quant ? l'enseignement du sanskrit, il se donne ?galement ? Toulouse, > avec les cours d'Yves Codet, associ? ? un enseignement de grammaire > compar?e des langues classiques. Yves Codet utilise un petit manuel > indien pour d?butants : le /Sa//m?skr?taba?la?dars?ah?/(/Infant > Reader/) de Vidyasagar Sastri (1972, 31?me ?dition), qu'il a > partiellement repens? en fonction du niveau de difficult? des exemples > propos?s, et conseille la /Grammaire sanskrite ?l?mentaire/ de Renou. > > Je conclurai en rappelant qu'il existe une ?cole indianiste fran?aise, > illustr?e par de grands noms, dont la plupart ?taient des agr?g?s de > grammaire (en l'occurrence, grammaire compar?e des langues > indo-europ?ennes), sp?cificit? bien fran?aise, mais fort utile ? qui > s'essaie ? p?n?trer les arcanes du sanskrit. > > Enfin, on me pardonnera d'avoir utilis?, ici, la langue fran?aise, > autre tradition locale, en voie, semble- t-il, de pr?kritisation > tacite. Il va sans dire que je suis pr?te ? en fournir une version > anglaise, si n?cessaire. > > Sahr?dayam, > > Lyne Bansat-Boudon > > Lyne Bansat-Boudon > Directeur d'?tudes pour les Religions de l'Inde > Ecole pratique des hautes ?tudes, section des sciences religieuses > Membre senior honoraire de l'Institut universitaire de France > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > http://listinfo.indology.info -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From torzsokjudit at hotmail.com Thu Oct 24 21:19:42 2013 From: torzsokjudit at hotmail.com (Judit Torzsok) Date: Thu, 24 Oct 13 21:19:42 +0000 Subject: [INDOLOGY] was "Question for European Indologists" In-Reply-To: <52698664.1070303@sas.upenn.edu> Message-ID: Yes, it is the book you translated (as "Aspirant du Fonds National Belge de la Recherche Scientifique"). I can only speak for myself, but in Lille, most students of Sanskrit (who do Sanskrit as an option) do not have Latin and Greek as their major, although my lectureship is still at the Department of Classics (another local tradition, but one that seems to be quite wide-spread in Europe).I myself had little Latin and less Greek (much more of compulsory Russian though, which I mainly forgot, unfortunately)... Anyway, perhaps due to this background, and because I also learnt Hindi as a student, I do teach Devanaagarii. Also, without Devanaagarii students cannot have access to texts. And they actually enjoy learning a new alphabet, if they can do it at a reasonable pace (reasonable for them, that is). I use a series of exercises I devised myself, so they start with the consonants La and Ka with the vowels and we build up the whole, including the ligatures, in about 7 lessons. The grammar runs parallel to this, with exercises, for which I also use Hart's Rapid Sanskrit Method in addition to Gonda. Hart also requires students to know Devanaagarii after a couple of lessons, so that's perfect. Judit T?rzs?k Date: Thu, 24 Oct 2013 16:43:16 -0400 From: rrocher at sas.upenn.edu To: indology at list.indology.info Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] was "Question for European Indologists" Is the French Manuel de grammaire ?l?mentaire de la langue sanskrite to which reference has been made that which I translated from Gonda's original German (full title: suivi d'exercices, de morceaux choisis et d'un lexique, Brill, 1966, translator named on the back of the title page)? I would be delighted to know that it is still in use. I would also be interested to know when readings in devan?gar? are introduced in current classes. When I was a student in Brussels, the introductory course in Sanskrit was an "option" course set up for students in Greek and Latin classics who were interested in comparative lndo-European linguistics, and it was taught in transliteration for their (our) benefit. For those who, like me, developed a passion for Sanskrit and wished to pursue it further, devan?gar? was introduced as of the second year and then used exclusively. Is this still a common situation, or is Sanskrit now primarily taught for its own sake, with readings in devan?gar? right from the start? Rosane Rocher Professor Emerita of South Asia Studies University of Pennsylvania On 10/24/13 2:03 PM, Lyne BANSAT-BOUDON wrote: Chers coll?gues, On me permettra une contribution, un peu tardive, ? la tribune sur l?enseignement du sanskrit en Europe, et, en particulier, en France, telle qu??bauch?e par Christophe Vielle et Judit T?rzs?k. Cum grano salis. En guise de commentaire au message de Judit T?rzs?k (4 juillet 2013), je dirai que je suis ? l?origine de la tradition locale (indig?ne ?) du recours au ? Gonda ? (Manuel de grammaire ?l?mentaire de la langue sanskrite), tradition que j?ai moi-m?me re?ue de Charles Malamoud dont j?ai suivi, en 1969, une ann?e d?enseignement du sanskrit (et de ? grammaire compar?e des langues indo-europ?ennes, option sanscrit ?), ? l?Universit? de Nanterre, dans le d?partement d?ethnologie, alors dirig? par Olivier Herrenschmidt (il s?agissait d?une ? charge de cours ?, Charles Malamoud ?tant alors Directeur d??tudes ? l?EPHE, Section des sciences religieuses). Quand, en 1983, j?ai succ?d? ? Charles Malamoud, dans ce m?me d?partement et cette m?me fonction, j?ai perp?tu? la tradition, l?ouvrage de Gonda se r?v?lant particuli?rement commode en ce qu?il pr?sente la totalit? des paradigmes, en un excellent abr?g? grammatical, ainsi que des exercices intelligemment gradu?s et le lexique qui leur est n?cessaire. En ce sens, le Gonda me semble justifier son statut de ? manuel ?, ce qui n?est pas le cas de la Grammaire sanskrite ?l?mentaire de Renou, ? laquelle Ch. Vielle fait r?f?rence dans son message du 4 juillet 2013. N??tant pas une adepte des m?thodes ? d?immersion ?, j?avais jug? n?cessaire d?utiliser les paradigmes du Gonda comme point de d?part ? un expos? grammatical raisonn?, dans lequel je m?attachais ? mettre en ?vidence les principes ? l??uvre dans la phon?tique et la morphologie du sanskrit, en un mot, l?organisation logique de la langue. Comme compl?ment au manuel, je proposais ainsi une grammaire descriptive du sanskrit, et, quand cela s?av?rait utile pour comprendre la structure de la langue, une grammaire comparative. C?est ce m?me Gonda et cette m?me m?thode (compl?t?e par la lecture de textes : muktaka et ?uvres dramatiques, notamment) que j?ai, par la suite, utilis?s pendant les onze ann?es de mon enseignement ? Lille (1989-2000), et, depuis 2000, ? l?Ecole pratique des hautes ?tudes, dans le s?minaire bi-mensuel que je consacre ? des ? Questions de grammaire sanskrite ?, afin de proposer ? mes auditeurs et ?tudiants un cours qui vaut initiation pour les uns, perfectionnement pour les autres. Quand, en 2000, Judit T?rz?k m?a succ?d? ? l?universit? de Lille III, avec mon entier soutien, elle n?a pas chang? de manuel, m?me si la m?thode dont elle l?accompagne diff?re n?cessairement de la mienne. Ainsi ?voluent les traditions d?enseignement, ? locales ? ou non. Notons, du reste, que l?universit? de Lille peut se pr?valoir d?une tradition sanskritiste qui remonte ? Victor Henry, auteur d?un autre manuel, ?l?ments de sanscrit classique (1902). Tradition qui s?est vue revivifi?e, apr?s le d?part (en 1985) de Jean Naudou pour l?universit? d?Aix-en-Provence et quelques ann?es d??tiolement, avec un DUFL (Dipl?me universitaire de formation en langue) de sanskrit (distribu? sur trois ann?es) dont j?ai obtenu la cr?ation, et qui est toujours en place au sein du D?partement de Langues et Cultures Antiques. Cette relative pr?dilection pour le Gonda n?enl?ve rien aux m?rites d?autres manuels en langue fran?aise (encore que le Gonda dont nous parlons ne soit que la traduction fran?aise d?un original allemand, comme le rappelle Ch. Vielle), ni ? ces deux remarquables grammaires, ?uvres de Renou, que sont la Grammaire sanskrite ?l?mentaire (1945), et la Grammaire sanskrite (1935), que ses utilisateurs appellent affectueusement sa ? grosse ? grammaire. Quant ? la grammaire de Pierre-Sylvain Filliozat, Grammaire sanskrite p?nin?enne (1988), elle est pr?cieuse en ce qu?elle expose le point de vue de la tradition grammaticale indienne, mais peut-?tre difficile d?emploi pour une initiation au sanskrit destin?e ? des occidentaux. Au nombre de ces manuels en langue fran?aise, il convient de citer 1) le ? Bergaigne ?, autrement dit, le Manuel pour ?tudier la langue sanscrite (1883), que j?ai longuement fr?quent? en ma qualit? d??tudiante d?Armand Minard, impeccable grammairien qui exigeait de ses ?l?ves qu?ils en aient d?chiffr? les 222 stances avant le d?but des cours (Renou en soulignait la difficult?, prometteuse de succ?s ; Minard, lui-m?me, conc?dait que la ? voie royale trac?e par Bergaigne ? ?tait ? assez raboteuse ?) ; 2) les ?l?ments de sanscrit classique (1902) de Victor Henry, auxquels j?ai encore recours occasionnellement, pour certains exercices, notamment ; 3) les derniers en date : le manuel de Sylvain Brocquet, Grammaire ?l?mentaire et pratique du sanskrit classique (2010) et une m?thode Assimil de sanskrit, dont Nalini Balbir est l?auteur, et que je n?ai pas encore consult?e. Quant ? l?enseignement du sanskrit, il se donne ?galement ? Toulouse, avec les cours d?Yves Codet, associ? ? un enseignement de grammaire compar?e des langues classiques. Yves Codet utilise un petit manuel indien pour d?butants : le Sam?skr?taba?la?dars?ah? (Infant Reader) de Vidyasagar Sastri (1972, 31?me ?dition), qu?il a partiellement repens? en fonction du niveau de difficult? des exemples propos?s, et conseille la Grammaire sanskrite ?l?mentaire de Renou. Je conclurai en rappelant qu?il existe une ?cole indianiste fran?aise, illustr?e par de grands noms, dont la plupart ?taient des agr?g?s de grammaire (en l?occurrence, grammaire compar?e des langues indo-europ?ennes), sp?cificit? bien fran?aise, mais fort utile ? qui s?essaie ? p?n?trer les arcanes du sanskrit. Enfin, on me pardonnera d?avoir utilis?, ici, la langue fran?aise, autre tradition locale, en voie, semble- t-il, de pr?kritisation tacite. Il va sans dire que je suis pr?te ? en fournir une version anglaise, si n?cessaire. Sahr?dayam, Lyne Bansat-Boudon Lyne Bansat-Boudon Directeur d'?tudes pour les Religions de l'Inde Ecole pratique des hautes ?tudes, section des sciences religieuses Membre senior honoraire de l'Institut universitaire de France _______________________________________________ INDOLOGY mailing list INDOLOGY at list.indology.info http://listinfo.indology.info _______________________________________________ INDOLOGY mailing list INDOLOGY at list.indology.info http://listinfo.indology.info -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From conlon at u.washington.edu Thu Oct 24 21:25:34 2013 From: conlon at u.washington.edu (Frank Conlon) Date: Thu, 24 Oct 13 14:25:34 -0700 Subject: [INDOLOGY] H-ASIA: AIIS summer 2014 and academic year 2014-2015 language programs in India Message-ID: H-ASIA October 24, 2013 American Institute of Indian Studies (AIIS) summer 2014 and academic year 2014-2015 language programs in India *********************************************************************** From: Elise Auerbach--AIIS Could you please circulate the information about the AIIS summer 2014 and academic year 2014-2015 to students at your institutions? We want to inform as many students as possible about our language programs. The American Institute of Indian Studies welcomes applications for its summer 2014 and academic year 2014-2015 language programs. Programs to be offered include Hindi (Jaipur), Bengali (Kolkata), Punjabi (Chandigarh), Tamil (Madurai); Marathi (Pune), Urdu (Lucknow), Telugu (Hyderabad), Kannada (Mysore), Malayalam (Thiruvananthapuram) and Sanskrit (Pune) and Pali/Prakrit (Pune). We will offer other Indian languages upon request. All academic year applicants should have the equivalent of two years of prior language study. For regular summer Sanskrit, we require the equivalent of two years of prior study; for summer Bengali, Hindi and Tamil we require the equivalent of one year of prior study. For summer Urdu, we require the equivalent of one year of either Hindi or Urdu. We can offer courses at all levels, including beginning, in other Indian languages for the summer. Summer students should apply for FLAS (graduate students) if available at their institutions for funding to cover the costs of the program. Funding for Hindi, Punjabi and Urdu may be available through the U.S. State Department's CLS program (see www.clscholarship.org). AIIS has some funding available for summer students who cannot procure FLAS or CLS funding. This funding is allocated on the basis of the language committee's ranking of the applicants. Academic year students are eligible to apply for an AIIS fellowship which would cover all expenses for the program. AIIS is also offering a fall semester program. We offer Hindi, Bengali and Urdu at all levels for the fall; we require two years of prior language study for other languages for the fall. The application deadline is January 31, 2014. Applications can be downloaded from the AIIS web site at http://www.indiastudies.org. For more information: Phone: 773-702-8638. Email: aiis at uchicago.edu. Thank you. Best wishes, Elise Auerbach American Institute of Indian Studies 1130 E. 59th Street Chicago, IL 60637 773-702-8638 www.indiastudies.org aiis at uchicago.edu ****************************************************************** To post to H-ASIA simply send your message to: For holidays or short absences send post to: with message: SET H-ASIA NOMAIL Upon return, send post with message SET H-ASIA MAIL H-ASIA WEB HOMEPAGE URL: http://h-net.msu.edu/~asia/ From hahn.m at t-online.de Fri Oct 25 06:59:44 2013 From: hahn.m at t-online.de (Michael Hahn) Date: Fri, 25 Oct 13 08:59:44 +0200 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Publication announcement Message-ID: <20131025085943.015D.CF0E9E7@t-online.de> Publication announcement: Le th??tre de l'Inde m?di?vale entre tradition et innovation: le Mohar?japar?jaya de Ya?a?p?la. Par Basile Lecl?re. Marburg: Indica et Tibetica Verlag 2013. 614 pp. Price: 84 ?. ISBN 978-3-923776-55-9. Contents: Study. First section. An inquiry on dramatic genres. Chapter 1. Dramatic genres in medieval theatre. Chapter 2. Ya?a?p?la's Mohar?japar?jaya: an irregular n??aka. Chapter 3. The renewal of traditional genres. Second section. The functions of theatre. Chapter 4. Religious functions. Chapter 5. Political functions. Third section. The dramatic performance. Chapter 6. A theatre meant for the stage. Chapter 7. The spectacle and its audience. French translation of Ya?a?p?la's Mohar?japar?jaya. Index of rare words. Index of verses. Index of allegorical names. Index of historical names. Index of writers and works. Index locorum. General index. English summary. The book opens with a comprehensive presentation and study of the dramatic literature produced in India from the eleventh till the thirteenth century. In a first section, the genre of medieval plays is put to an examination in order to ascertain whether medieval dramatists barely imitated their forerunners or tried to compete with them. The second section deals with the new functions theatre seems to have assumed in medieval times. As suggested by the plays under review, dramatists made use of theatre to propagate their own faith to the detriment of the rival ones. They might also have invested theatre with political discourses, either legitimizing and justifying the power of their patron, or expressing their political ideals through contemporary or legendary characters. Lastly, the question of the staging of the plays is dealt with in a third section. Evidence attesting that theatre was meant for the stage has been systematically collected from various kinds of sources, plays, treatises, inscriptions as well as archaeological data. Besides, a last chapter examines to which extent the text of the performed play was understood by the audience. The study is followed by the first translation of the Mohar?japar?jaya, "The Defeat of King Delusion", written in twelfth century Gujarat by the Jain dramatist Ya?a?p?la. Depicting allegorically the conversion of the Caulukya king Kum?rap?la to Jainism, this play is fully representative of the innovations introduced by medieval playwrights into dramatic literature and, as such, has often been taken as the starting-point of many discussions in the study. Based on the editio princeps and occasionally improved by the reading of the available manuscripts, the translation is supplemented with footnotes explaining difficult passages or enigmatic allusions, and the volume ends with several indices which help the reader to have an insight into the study as well as into the translation of the play. --- Prof. Dr. Michael Hahn Ritterstr. 14 D-35287 Amoeneburg Tel. +49-6422-938963 Fax: +49-6422-938967 E-mail: hahn.m at t-online.de URL: staff-www.uni-marburg.de/~hahnm From dbhattacharya200498 at yahoo.com Fri Oct 25 10:55:07 2013 From: dbhattacharya200498 at yahoo.com (Dipak Bhattacharya) Date: Fri, 25 Oct 13 18:55:07 +0800 Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_[INDOLOGY]_R=C4=81m=C4=81nand=C4=AB-s_and_Yoga_Upani=E1=B9=A3ad-s?= In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <1382698507.59750.YahooMailNeo@web193506.mail.sg3.yahoo.com> On Friday, 25 October 2013 1:29 AM, Christian Current wrote: Dear list, I have come across several references to R?m?nand?'s studying Yoga Upani?ad-s as key texts (Ramdas Lamb, for instance in his article on the R?m?nand?'s for Gerald Larson's festschrift).? So far I have been unable to confirm which Upani?ad-s they consider significant. I would be very grateful to be pointed to more information, particularly? which faction(s) of the order and which of these texts specifically do they utilize. Any help would be most welcome. Many Thanks, Christian Current PhD Candidate The Department of Asian Studies University of Texas-Austin _______________________________________________ INDOLOGY mailing list INDOLOGY at list.indology.info http://listinfo.indology.info -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dbhattacharya200498 at yahoo.com Fri Oct 25 10:59:17 2013 From: dbhattacharya200498 at yahoo.com (Dipak Bhattacharya) Date: Fri, 25 Oct 13 18:59:17 +0800 Subject: [INDOLOGY] (no subject) Message-ID: <1382698757.6031.YahooMailNeo@web193503.mail.sg3.yahoo.com> Ramanandis are known as northern followers of R?m?nuja. According to some late medieval worksj the eight followers, Sant Kabir one of them, are said to have introduced eight sects all claiming their origin to Ramanand. I met some Ramanandi holy men, called Babaji that is Reverend Father, belonging to the mother church (samprad?ya) established by Ramanand himself. They have an independent commentary on the Brahmas?tra. Late Professor Schokker was a knowledgeable person on some of these late medieval saints whom he understood as Protestants of Hinduism. ????? Many of the Minor Upani?ads cater to the needs of such late medieval sects. Unfortunately study on the Minor Upani?ads is in a poor state. Will this help? Best DB -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From veerankp at gmail.com Fri Oct 25 11:04:58 2013 From: veerankp at gmail.com (Veeranarayana Pandurangi) Date: Fri, 25 Oct 13 16:34:58 +0530 Subject: [INDOLOGY] "nyayakutumbakam" directory of Naiyayikas Message-ID: dear all Here is the request from Prof. Rajaram Shukla for Naiyayikas and others closely following nyaya to fill some details to create "A worldwide Directory of the Scholars seriously interested in Nyaya Philosophy" Naiyayikas can also contact the coordinator of the project Prof. Rajaram Shukla rrsvns at gmail.com -- Veeranarayana N.K. Pandurangi Head, Dept of Darshanas, Yoganandacharya Bhavan, Jagadguru Ramanandacharya Rajasthan Samskrita University, Madau, post Bhankrota, Jaipur, 302026. India ?? ??????????? ??????? ???????? ? ????????? ??? ???????? ??????? ? ?????? ??????????????? ?????????????? ??????? ??????? ??????????? ??????????????? ?????? ???????? ??????????? (?.??.) http://jrrsanskrituniversity.ac.in/ http://jrrsanskrituniversity.ac.in/acd1.asp https://groups.google.com/forum/?hl=en&fromgroups#!forum/bvparishat -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lyne.bansat-boudon at ephe.sorbonne.fr Fri Oct 25 11:10:34 2013 From: lyne.bansat-boudon at ephe.sorbonne.fr (Lyne BANSAT-BOUDON) Date: Fri, 25 Oct 13 13:10:34 +0200 Subject: [INDOLOGY] was "Question for European Indologists" In-Reply-To: <52698664.1070303@sas.upenn.edu> Message-ID: Dear colleague, Yes, of course, the Gonda manual is the one you translated from the original German. I referred to it, without giving your name, since Christophe Vielle had done it in his message dated 4th July, to which I answered yesterday. Allow me to say that you can be proud of it. And, of course, I teach devana?gari? in my grammatical seminar in EPHE, all the more so as the seminars I dedicate to S?aiva texts consists in reading Sanskrit texts in their original edition; for instance, the texts from the Kashmir Series of Texts and Studies. Best regards, Lyne Bansat-Boudon Lyne Bansat-Boudon Directeur d'?tudes pour les Religions de l'Inde Ecole pratique des hautes ?tudes, section des sciences religieuses Membre senior honoraire de l'Institut universitaire de France Le 24 oct. 2013 ? 22:43, Rosane Rocher a ?crit : > Is the French Manuel de grammaire ?l?mentaire de la langue sanskrite to which reference has been made that which I translated from Gonda's original German (full title: suivi d'exercices, de morceaux choisis et d'un lexique, Brill, 1966, translator named on the back of the title page)? I would be delighted to know that it is still in use. I would also be interested to know when readings in devan?gar? are introduced in current classes. When I was a student in Brussels, the introductory course in Sanskrit was an "option" course set up for students in Greek and Latin classics who were interested in comparative lndo-European linguistics, and it was taught in transliteration for their (our) benefit. For those who, like me, developed a passion for Sanskrit and wished to pursue it further, devan?gar? was introduced as of the second year and then used exclusively. Is this still a common situation, or is Sanskrit now primarily taught for its own sake, with readings in devan?gar? right from the start? > > Rosane Rocher > Professor Emerita of South Asia Studies > University of Pennsylvania > > On 10/24/13 2:03 PM, Lyne BANSAT-BOUDON wrote: >> Chers coll?gues, >> >> On me permettra une contribution, un peu tardive, ? la tribune sur l?enseignement du sanskrit en Europe, et, en particulier, en France, telle qu??bauch?e par Christophe Vielle et Judit T?rzs?k. Cum grano salis. >> >> En guise de commentaire au message de Judit T?rzs?k (4 juillet 2013), je dirai que je suis ? l?origine de la tradition locale (indig?ne ?) du recours au ? Gonda ? (Manuel de grammaire ?l?mentaire de la langue sanskrite), tradition que j?ai moi-m?me re?ue de Charles Malamoud dont j?ai suivi, en 1969, une ann?e d?enseignement du sanskrit (et de ? grammaire compar?e des langues indo-europ?ennes, option sanscrit ?), ? l?Universit? de Nanterre, dans le d?partement d?ethnologie, alors dirig? par Olivier Herrenschmidt (il s?agissait d?une ? charge de cours ?, Charles Malamoud ?tant alors Directeur d??tudes ? l?EPHE, Section des sciences religieuses). >> >> Quand, en 1983, j?ai succ?d? ? Charles Malamoud, dans ce m?me d?partement et cette m?me fonction, j?ai perp?tu? la tradition, l?ouvrage de Gonda se r?v?lant particuli?rement commode en ce qu?il pr?sente la totalit? des paradigmes, en un excellent abr?g? grammatical, ainsi que des exercices intelligemment gradu?s et le lexique qui leur est n?cessaire. En ce sens, le Gonda me semble justifier son statut de ? manuel ?, ce qui n?est pas le cas de la Grammaire sanskrite ?l?mentaire de Renou, ? laquelle Ch. Vielle fait r?f?rence dans son message du 4 juillet 2013. >> >> N??tant pas une adepte des m?thodes ? d?immersion ?, j?avais jug? n?cessaire d?utiliser les paradigmes du Gonda comme point de d?part ? un expos? grammatical raisonn?, dans lequel je m?attachais ? mettre en ?vidence les principes ? l??uvre dans la phon?tique et la morphologie du sanskrit, en un mot, l?organisation logique de la langue. Comme compl?ment au manuel, je proposais ainsi une grammaire descriptive du sanskrit, et, quand cela s?av?rait utile pour comprendre la structure de la langue, une grammaire comparative. >> >> C?est ce m?me Gonda et cette m?me m?thode (compl?t?e par la lecture de textes : muktaka et ?uvres dramatiques, notamment) que j?ai, par la suite, utilis?s pendant les onze ann?es de mon enseignement ? Lille (1989-2000), et, depuis 2000, ? l?Ecole pratique des hautes ?tudes, dans le s?minaire bi-mensuel que je consacre ? des ? Questions de grammaire sanskrite ?, afin de proposer ? mes auditeurs et ?tudiants un cours qui vaut initiation pour les uns, perfectionnement pour les autres. >> >> Quand, en 2000, Judit T?rz?k m?a succ?d? ? l?universit? de Lille III, avec mon entier soutien, elle n?a pas chang? de manuel, m?me si la m?thode dont elle l?accompagne diff?re n?cessairement de la mienne. Ainsi ?voluent les traditions d?enseignement, ? locales ? ou non. >> >> Notons, du reste, que l?universit? de Lille peut se pr?valoir d?une tradition sanskritiste qui remonte ? Victor Henry, auteur d?un autre manuel, ?l?ments de sanscrit classique (1902). Tradition qui s?est vue revivifi?e, apr?s le d?part (en 1985) de Jean Naudou pour l?universit? d?Aix-en-Provence et quelques ann?es d??tiolement, avec un DUFL (Dipl?me universitaire de formation en langue) de sanskrit (distribu? sur trois ann?es) dont j?ai obtenu la cr?ation, et qui est toujours en place au sein du D?partement de Langues et Cultures Antiques. >> >> Cette relative pr?dilection pour le Gonda n?enl?ve rien aux m?rites d?autres manuels en langue fran?aise (encore que le Gonda dont nous parlons ne soit que la traduction fran?aise d?un original allemand, comme le rappelle Ch. Vielle), ni ? ces deux remarquables grammaires, ?uvres de Renou, que sont la Grammaire sanskrite ?l?mentaire (1945), et la Grammaire sanskrite (1935), que ses utilisateurs appellent affectueusement sa ? grosse ? grammaire. Quant ? la grammaire de Pierre-Sylvain Filliozat, Grammaire sanskrite p?nin?enne (1988), elle est pr?cieuse en ce qu?elle expose le point de vue de la tradition grammaticale indienne, mais peut-?tre difficile d?emploi pour une initiation au sanskrit destin?e ? des occidentaux. >> >> Au nombre de ces manuels en langue fran?aise, il convient de citer 1) le ? Bergaigne ?, autrement dit, le Manuel pour ?tudier la langue sanscrite (1883), que j?ai longuement fr?quent? en ma qualit? d??tudiante d?Armand Minard, impeccable grammairien qui exigeait de ses ?l?ves qu?ils en aient d?chiffr? les 222 stances avant le d?but des cours (Renou en soulignait la difficult?, prometteuse de succ?s ; Minard, lui-m?me, conc?dait que la ? voie royale trac?e par Bergaigne ? ?tait ? assez raboteuse ?) ; 2) les ?l?ments de sanscrit classique (1902) de Victor Henry, auxquels j?ai encore recours occasionnellement, pour certains exercices, notamment ; 3) les derniers en date : le manuel de Sylvain Brocquet, Grammaire ?l?mentaire et pratique du sanskrit classique (2010) et une m?thode Assimil de sanskrit, dont Nalini Balbir est l?auteur, et que je n?ai pas encore consult?e. >> >> Quant ? l?enseignement du sanskrit, il se donne ?galement ? Toulouse, avec les cours d?Yves Codet, associ? ? un enseignement de grammaire compar?e des langues classiques. Yves Codet utilise un petit manuel indien pour d?butants : le Sam?skr?taba?la?dars?ah? (Infant Reader) de Vidyasagar Sastri (1972, 31?me ?dition), qu?il a partiellement repens? en fonction du niveau de difficult? des exemples propos?s, et conseille la Grammaire sanskrite ?l?mentaire de Renou. >> >> Je conclurai en rappelant qu?il existe une ?cole indianiste fran?aise, illustr?e par de grands noms, dont la plupart ?taient des agr?g?s de grammaire (en l?occurrence, grammaire compar?e des langues indo-europ?ennes), sp?cificit? bien fran?aise, mais fort utile ? qui s?essaie ? p?n?trer les arcanes du sanskrit. >> >> Enfin, on me pardonnera d?avoir utilis?, ici, la langue fran?aise, autre tradition locale, en voie, semble- t-il, de pr?kritisation tacite. Il va sans dire que je suis pr?te ? en fournir une version anglaise, si n?cessaire. >> >> Sahr?dayam, >> >> Lyne Bansat-Boudon >> >> Lyne Bansat-Boudon >> Directeur d'?tudes pour les Religions de l'Inde >> Ecole pratique des hautes ?tudes, section des sciences religieuses >> Membre senior honoraire de l'Institut universitaire de France >> >> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> INDOLOGY mailing list >> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info >> http://listinfo.indology.info > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > http://listinfo.indology.info Lyne Bansat-Boudon Directeur d'?tudes pour les Religions de l'Inde Ecole pratique des hautes ?tudes, section des sciences religieuses -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From caf57 at cam.ac.uk Fri Oct 25 13:21:25 2013 From: caf57 at cam.ac.uk (C.A. Formigatti) Date: Fri, 25 Oct 13 14:21:25 +0100 Subject: [INDOLOGY] was "Question for European Indologists" (Rosane Rocher) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <7583b854fbcc7ac72ee3cfcff770b62c@cam.ac.uk> When I started to study Sanskrit in Milan at the end of the 90's, it was also taught in transliteration, since the course for Sanskrit was also mainly thought for students of Classics or Indo-European Linguistics (Glottologia), and Devanagari was introduced olny in the second year, and only for those interested in Sanskrit as a main subject. I do not know about the current situation, but speaking with other Italian colleagues of my generation, the overall impression I got is that if the Sanskrit course is taught within a Faculty or Department for Oriental Studies or something similar, then you start learning Devanagari immediately, but if the Chair for Sanskrit is within a Department for Ancient Studies or Linguistics, then you learn Sanskrit in transliteration. Camillo A. Formigatti Research Associate, Sanskrit Manuscripts project Faculty of Asian & Middle Eastern Studies University of Cambridge Sidgwick Avenue Cambridge CB3 9DA United Kingdom On 2013-10-24 21:43, indology-request at list.indology.info wrote: > Send INDOLOGY mailing list submissions to > indology at list.indology.info > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://list.indology.info/mailman/listinfo/indology_list.indology.info > > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > indology-request at list.indology.info > > You can reach the person managing the list at > indology-owner at list.indology.info > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of INDOLOGY digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. R?m?nand?-s and Yoga Upani?ad-s (Christian Current) > 2. Re: was "Question for European Indologists" (Rosane Rocher) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Thu, 24 Oct 2013 14:59:15 -0500 > From: Christian Current > To: indology at list.indology.info > Subject: [INDOLOGY] R?m?nand?-s and Yoga Upani?ad-s > Message-ID: > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > Dear list, > > I have come across several references to R?m?nand?'s studying Yoga > Upani?ad-s as key texts (Ramdas Lamb, for instance in his article on > the > R?m?nand?'s for Gerald Larson's festschrift). So far I have been > unable to > confirm which Upani?ad-s they consider significant. > > I would be very grateful to be pointed to more information, > particularly > which faction(s) of the order and which of these texts specifically do > they > utilize. Any help would be most welcome. > > Many Thanks, > > Christian Current > > PhD Candidate > The Department of Asian Studies > University of Texas-Austin > From LubinT at wlu.edu Fri Oct 25 16:30:42 2013 From: LubinT at wlu.edu (Lubin, Tim) Date: Fri, 25 Oct 13 16:30:42 +0000 Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_[INDOLOGY]_R=C4=81m=C4=81nand=C4=AB-s_and_Yoga_Upani=E1=B9=A3ad-s?= In-Reply-To: <1382698507.59750.YahooMailNeo@web193506.mail.sg3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Dear Christian, The connection seems tenuous, but it is worth noting that R?m?nanda lived around the same time as the composition of the R?mat?pin?(-Upani?ad). See Christian Bouy, "Mat?riaux pour servir aux ?tudes upani?adiques (II): La R?mat?pinyupani?ad," Journal asiatique 278.3/4 (1990): 269-326. Bouy's 1994 monograph, Les n?tha-yogin et les upani?ads, makes no mention of the R?m?ndand?s sharing the N?tha Yog?s' interest in promulgating upani?ads for their movement, which may count as a sort of negative evidence. You might consult James Mallinson, who has done ethnographic field work among R?m?nand?s and has written about them (e.g., 2005. "R?m?nand? Ty?g?s and Ha?ha Yoga," Journal of Vaishnava Studies, 14.1: 107-121 -- I don't have this at hand). Timothy Lubin Professor of Religion Washington and Lee University Lexington, Virginia 24450 http://home.wlu.edu/~lubint http://wlu.academia.edu/TimothyLubin http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/cf_dev/AbsByAuth.cfm?per_id=930949 From: Dipak Bhattacharya > Reply-To: Dipak Bhattacharya > Date: Friday, October 25, 2013 6:55 AM To: Christian Current >, "indology at list.indology.info" > Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] R?m?nand?-s and Yoga Upani?ad-s On Friday, 25 October 2013 1:29 AM, Christian Current > wrote: Dear list, I have come across several references to R?m?nand?'s studying Yoga Upani?ad-s as key texts (Ramdas Lamb, for instance in his article on the R?m?nand?'s for Gerald Larson's festschrift). So far I have been unable to confirm which Upani?ad-s they consider significant. I would be very grateful to be pointed to more information, particularly which faction(s) of the order and which of these texts specifically do they utilize. Any help would be most welcome. Many Thanks, Christian Current PhD Candidate The Department of Asian Studies University of Texas-Austin _______________________________________________ INDOLOGY mailing list INDOLOGY at list.indology.info http://listinfo.indology.info -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From hhhock at illinois.edu Sun Oct 27 20:45:32 2013 From: hhhock at illinois.edu (Hock, Hans Henrich) Date: Sun, 27 Oct 13 20:45:32 +0000 Subject: [INDOLOGY] New Book Message-ID: Dear Colleagues, DK Printworld just informed me that the proceedings of the Veda Section, 15th World Sanskrit, have come out. (See attached) Best wishes to all, Hans Henrich Hock [cid:656e47e3-ec8e-4385-bc65-78d2ad3dc806 at mx.uillinois.edu] -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From hhhock at illinois.edu Sun Oct 27 21:21:02 2013 From: hhhock at illinois.edu (Hock, Hans Henrich) Date: Sun, 27 Oct 13 21:21:02 +0000 Subject: [INDOLOGY] New Book information with (hopefully) readable attachment Message-ID: Dear Colleagues, DK Printworld just informed me that the proceedings of the Veda Section, 15th World Sanskrit, have come out. (See attached) Best wishes to all, Hans Henrich Hock -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From gthomgt at gmail.com Sun Oct 27 22:02:28 2013 From: gthomgt at gmail.com (George Thompson) Date: Sun, 27 Oct 13 18:02:28 -0400 Subject: [INDOLOGY] New Book information with (hopefully) readable attachment In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Dear Hans, Your second email also failed to have an attachment included in it. Perhaps you can cut-and-paste the table of contents? I am interested to see what went on at that conference. Best wishes, George On Sun, Oct 27, 2013 at 5:21 PM, Hock, Hans Henrich wrote: > Dear Colleagues, > > DK Printworld just informed me that the proceedings of the Veda Section, > 15th World Sanskrit, have come out. (See attached) > > Best wishes to all, > > Hans Henrich Hock > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > http://listinfo.indology.info > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From hhhock at illinois.edu Mon Oct 28 01:36:24 2013 From: hhhock at illinois.edu (Hock, Hans Henrich) Date: Mon, 28 Oct 13 01:36:24 +0000 Subject: [INDOLOGY] New Book information with (hopefully) readable attachment In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Thanks for your message, George. Apparently the list serve does not like attachments. Here is the table of contents Language and linguistics Hans Henrich Hock: Predicate order in Vedic Prose (p. 5) Jared S. Klein: Interstanzaic repetition in the Rigveda (p. 18) Martin Joachim K?mmel: P?n?ini 5.3.5 and the function of Sanskrit et?d (p. 39) Georges-Jean Pinault: About the names of some Vedic poets (p. 57) Elizabeth Tucker: Compounds of the type v?ja?bhar?- and brahmak?r?- in the Rigveda and Atharvaveda (p. 78) Textual criticism and text edition Shrikant S. Bahulkar: Medh?janana in the Atharvaveda tradition (p. 101) Ambarish Khare: Aitareya ?ra?yaka and the origin and development of the Mah?n?mn? verses (p. 116) Frank K?hler: Some thoughts on padav??- and pad?? v?? (p. 125) Nirmala Kulkarni: Textcritical study of the Pativedan?ni section of the Kau?ika S?tra (p. 152) Julieta Rotaru and Shilpa Sumant: A new edition and an annotated translation of the Kau?ika S?tra (p. 162) Culture, philosophy, mythology Giacomo Benedetti: The objects and contexts of vision of the ??is in the Pa?cavi??a Br?hma?a (p. 177) Mugdha Gadgil: Feminine aspect of the Sun: Vedic, Pur??ic, and popular (p. 195) Naoko Nishimura: Processing of dairy products in the Vedic ritual, compared with P?li (p. 211) Chetna Vibhuti Vedi: ????????? ?????????????????? (227) Best wishes, Hans On 27 Oct 2013, at 17:02, George Thompson wrote: Dear Hans, Your second email also failed to have an attachment included in it. Perhaps you can cut-and-paste the table of contents? I am interested to see what went on at that conference. Best wishes, George On Sun, Oct 27, 2013 at 5:21 PM, Hock, Hans Henrich > wrote: Dear Colleagues, DK Printworld just informed me that the proceedings of the Veda Section, 15th World Sanskrit, have come out. (See attached) Best wishes to all, Hans Henrich Hock _______________________________________________ INDOLOGY mailing list INDOLOGY at list.indology.info http://listinfo.indology.info -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From wujastyk at gmail.com Mon Oct 28 18:17:16 2013 From: wujastyk at gmail.com (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Mon, 28 Oct 13 19:17:16 +0100 Subject: [INDOLOGY] How the software works (was: New Book information with (hopefully) readable attachment) Message-ID: Actually, the software running this forum - Mailman(not Listserv) - should have no problem with attachments. The Mailman system tries to be careful about spam and so on, and therefore there are filters that reject the "wrong" kinds of attachment. Maybe these settings are too sensitive, so to speak, and the attachment looked wrong to Mailman for some reason. I'll look into it. I've noticed that attachments don't get saved in the archive of messages. I can't see a way to make the attachments persist into the archive, and it's a pity. Though I can understand why an archive might be designed that way. Best, Dominik ?? On 28 October 2013 02:36, Hock, Hans Henrich wrote: > Thanks for your message, George. Apparently the list serve does not like > attachments. > > ?[...] ? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From wujastyk at gmail.com Mon Oct 28 18:28:51 2013 From: wujastyk at gmail.com (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Mon, 28 Oct 13 19:28:51 +0100 Subject: [INDOLOGY] How the software works (was: New Book information with (hopefully) readable attachment) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I have now expanded the list of attachment-types that Mailman will pass on to INDOLOGY readers. I hope this works okay, and will be what everyone wants. Best, Dominik -- Dr Dominik Wujastyk Department of South Asia, Tibetan and Buddhist Studies , University of Vienna, Spitalgasse 2-4, Courtyard 2, Entrance 2.1 1090 Vienna, Austria and Adjunct Professor, Division of Health and Humanities, St. John's Research Institute, Bangalore, India. Project | home page| HSSA | PGP On 28 October 2013 19:17, Dominik Wujastyk wrote: > Actually, the software running this forum - Mailman(not Listserv) - should have no problem with attachments. The Mailman > system tries to be careful about spam and so on, and therefore there are > filters that reject the "wrong" kinds of attachment. Maybe these settings > are too sensitive, so to speak, and the attachment looked wrong to Mailman > for some reason. I'll look into it. > > I've noticed that attachments don't get saved in the archive of messages. > I can't see a way to make the attachments persist into the archive, and > it's a pity. Though I can understand why an archive might be designed that > way. > > Best, > Dominik > > ?? > > On 28 October 2013 02:36, Hock, Hans Henrich wrote: > >> Thanks for your message, George. Apparently the list serve does not >> like attachments. >> >> ?[...] > ? > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ambapradeep at gmail.com Tue Oct 29 12:01:03 2013 From: ambapradeep at gmail.com (Amba Kulkarni) Date: Tue, 29 Oct 13 17:31:03 +0530 Subject: =?utf-8?B?W0lORE9MT0dZXSBGd2Q6IHvgpK3gpL7gpLDgpKTgpYDgpK/gpLXgpL/gpKbgpY3gpLXgpKTgpY3gpKrgpLDgpL/gpLfgpKTgpY19IEZ3ZDogUHVibGljYXRpb25zIGxpc3QgYWxvbmcgd2l0aCBkZXNjcmlwdGl2ZSBjYXRhbG9ndWU=?= In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Dear List, Forwarding the publications of Sanskrit Academy, Hyderabad. -- Amba Kulkarni ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Subrahmanyam V Date: 2013/10/29 Subject: {???????????????????} Fwd: Publications list along with descriptive catalogue ????????? ????? ??????? ????????? ??????????? ???? ???????????? ????? ????????????????? ?????????? -- ...................................................................... *Dr.V.Subrahmanyam * Deputy Director Sanskrit Academy (Recognized and funded by Rashtriya Sanskrit Sansthan, New Delhi) Osmania University Hyderabad - 500 007 Phone : +91 98480 94890 Email : vsuparmanm at gmail.com -- ??????????????? ?????? ???????? ??????????? (?.??.) --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "???????????????????" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to bvparishat+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to bvparishat at googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/bvparishat. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Descriptivecatelog.doc Type: application/msword Size: 1684480 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Descriptivecatelog.pdf Type: application/pdf Size: 387577 bytes Desc: not available URL: From ashok.aklujkar at gmail.com Tue Oct 29 18:19:30 2013 From: ashok.aklujkar at gmail.com (Ashok Aklujkar) Date: Tue, 29 Oct 13 11:19:30 -0700 Subject: [INDOLOGY] An international conference on Bhaskaracarya, 19-21 Sep 2014 In-Reply-To: <1383009935.67021.YahooMailNeo@web121102.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: I am forwarding a slightly edited message at the request of Dr. V.M. Bedekar (a medical doctor who has so far arranged several academically rewarding conferences in the field of Indology. I have attended two of them in the past and have been impressed by the quality and orderly manner in which they were conducted. Following his usual practice, Dr. Bedekar has made the conference announcement much in advance). Apologies for cross-posting. a.a. Begin forwarded message: From: Vijay Bedekar Subject: International Conference on Bh?skar?c?rya Date: 28 October, 2013 6:25:35 PM PDT I am very happy to inform you that, to honour Bh?skar?c?rya, India?s celebrated mathematician and astronomer, on the 900th anniversary of his birth, Vidya Prasarak Mandal, Thane, Maharashtra, is organizing an International Conference on Friday, 19th; Saturday, 20th and Sunday, 21st-September 2014 at Thane, Maharashtra, India - 400 601. The details of the conference are available on the web site http://www.vpmthane.org/bhaskara900/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Bradley.Clough at mso.umt.edu Tue Oct 29 20:52:24 2013 From: Bradley.Clough at mso.umt.edu (Clough, Bradley) Date: Tue, 29 Oct 13 20:52:24 +0000 Subject: [INDOLOGY] CFP on Indian Mahayana Buddhism Message-ID: <91C5F609-EF4C-446D-9B3D-3E7E5A02AA39@mso.umt.edu> Dear Colleagues, I am interested in forming a panel on "New Studies of Indian Mahayana Buddhism" for the annual South Asian Studies Association conference, to be held Apr. 11-14 2014 in Salt Lake City. Anyone interested in participating should contact me off list. Thanks, Brad Bradley Clough bradley.clough at mso.umt.edu Liberal Studies/Asian Religions LA 101 The University of Montana 32 Campus Drive Missoula, MT 59812 Office: 406-243-2837 Fax-406-243-5313 From anurupa.n at ifpindia.org Wed Oct 30 04:58:22 2013 From: anurupa.n at ifpindia.org (Anurupa IFP) Date: Wed, 30 Oct 13 10:28:22 +0530 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Recent Indological publications of the French Institute of Pondicherry Message-ID: Dear all, FYI, please find attached the list of the recent Indological publications of the French Institute of Pondicherry. Thank you, With best wishes, Anurupa Ms. Anurupa Naik Head, Library and Publication Division French Institute of Pondicherry (IFP) UMIFRE 21 CNRS-MAEE P.B. 33 11, St. Louis Street Pondicherry-605 001, INDIA Tel: 91-413-2231660 Fax: 91-413-2231605 e-mail: anurupa.n at ifpindia.org website: www.ifpindia.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: RecentPublicationsoftheFrenchInstituteofPondicherry2012-2013.pdf Type: application/pdf Size: 281695 bytes Desc: not available URL: From aprigliano at usp.br Wed Oct 30 12:38:06 2013 From: aprigliano at usp.br (Adriano Aprigliano) Date: Wed, 30 Oct 13 10:38:06 -0200 Subject: =?utf-8?Q?[INDOLOGY]_Pata=C3=B1jali's_syntax?= Message-ID: Dear colleagues, I have been having doubts on how to translate this MBh?? sentence (Kielhorn, p.2, line 8): te'sur??. te sur? helayo helaya iti kurvanta? par?babh?vu?. tasm?d br?hma?ena na mlecchitavai n?pabh??itavai. mleccho ha v? e?a yad apa?abda?. The problem is on the last sentence, what to make of that yad apa?abda?. I start with ' for this one/he is indeed a mleccha...". Any suggestions? best wishes Prof. Dr. Adriano Aprigliano ?rea de L?ngua e Literatura Latina Faculdade de Filosofia, Letras e Ci?ncias Humanas Universidade de S?o Paulo S?o Paulo, Brasil -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From wujastyk at gmail.com Wed Oct 30 13:40:24 2013 From: wujastyk at gmail.com (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Wed, 30 Oct 13 14:40:24 +0100 Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_[INDOLOGY]_Pata=C3=B1jali's_syntax?= In-Reply-To: Message-ID: This exact point was discussed in the Prad?pa and clarified further in the Uddyota. One might think, N?ge?a said, that the word mleccha would usually refer to a person or a place; how could it refer to a bad word? But in this case it is a term of criticism. "A bad word (apa?abda) is really despicable (mleccha)." ("Bad word" is of course probably not one's final choice for translating * apa?abda.*) -- Dr Dominik Wujastyk Department of South Asia, Tibetan and Buddhist Studies , University of Vienna, Spitalgasse 2-4, Courtyard 2, Entrance 2.1 1090 Vienna, Austria and Adjunct Professor, Division of Health and Humanities, St. John's Research Institute, Bangalore, India. Project | home page| HSSA | PGP On 30 October 2013 13:38, Adriano Aprigliano wrote: > Dear colleagues, > > I have been having doubts on how to translate this MBh?? sentence > (Kielhorn, p.2, line 8): > > te'sur??. te sur? helayo helaya iti kurvanta? par?babh?vu?. tasm?d > br?hma?ena na mlecchitavai n?pabh??itavai. mleccho ha v? e?a yad apa?abda?. > > The problem is on the last sentence, what to make of that yad apa?abda?. I > start with ' for this one/he is indeed a mleccha...". > > Any suggestions? > > best wishes > > *Prof. Dr. Adriano Aprigliano* > ?rea de L?ngua e Literatura Latina**** > ** ** > Faculdade de Filosofia, Letras e Ci?ncias Humanas**** > Universidade de S?o Paulo**** > S?o Paulo, Brasil > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > http://listinfo.indology.info > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From aprigliano at usp.br Wed Oct 30 14:06:04 2013 From: aprigliano at usp.br (Adriano Aprigliano) Date: Wed, 30 Oct 13 12:06:04 -0200 Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_[INDOLOGY]_Pata=C3=B1jali's_syntax?= In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Thanks to Dominik W. and Lars F. for the propositions. I think yad is the main problem in fact... and still. It is solved by Lars as 'because': the syntax becomes smooth in terms of order, but still taking apazabdah as bahuvriihi sounds to me quite strange. As for Naageza's explanation brought up by Dominik, it leaves yad out, as far as I could gather from the translation. Understanding mleccha as an adjective of apazabda, albeit uncommon, as noted by Naageza himself, seems rather ok. But next the text goes: mlecchaah maa bhumety adhyeyam vyaakaranam. So it seems to me that maybe the commentators were a bit at lost with that construction themselves, don't you think? Best (first response went just to D. Wujastyk, sorry) Prof. Dr. Adriano Aprigliano ?rea de L?ngua e Literatura Latina Faculdade de Filosofia, Letras e Ci?ncias Humanas Universidade de S?o Paulo S?o Paulo, Brasil Em 30/10/2013, ?s 11:40, Dominik Wujastyk escreveu: > This exact point was discussed in the Prad?pa and clarified further in the Uddyota. One might think, N?ge?a said, that the word mleccha would usually refer to a person or a place; how could it refer to a bad word? But in this case it is a term of criticism. "A bad word (apa?abda) is really despicable (mleccha)." > > ("Bad word" is of course probably not one's final choice for translating apa?abda.) > > > > -- > Dr Dominik Wujastyk > Department of South Asia, Tibetan and Buddhist Studies, > University of Vienna, > Spitalgasse 2-4, Courtyard 2, Entrance 2.1 > 1090 Vienna, Austria > and > Adjunct Professor, > Division of Health and Humanities, > St. John's Research Institute, Bangalore, India. > Project | home page | HSSA | PGP > > > > > > On 30 October 2013 13:38, Adriano Aprigliano wrote: > Dear colleagues, > > I have been having doubts on how to translate this MBh?? sentence (Kielhorn, p.2, line 8): > > te'sur??. te sur? helayo helaya iti kurvanta? par?babh?vu?. tasm?d br?hma?ena na mlecchitavai n?pabh??itavai. mleccho ha v? e?a yad apa?abda?. > > The problem is on the last sentence, what to make of that yad apa?abda?. I start with ' for this one/he is indeed a mleccha...". > > Any suggestions? > > best wishes > > Prof. Dr. Adriano Aprigliano > ?rea de L?ngua e Literatura Latina > > Faculdade de Filosofia, Letras e Ci?ncias Humanas > Universidade de S?o Paulo > S?o Paulo, Brasil > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > http://listinfo.indology.info > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From hhhock at illinois.edu Wed Oct 30 14:21:12 2013 From: hhhock at illinois.edu (Hock, Hans Henrich) Date: Wed, 30 Oct 13 14:21:12 +0000 Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_[INDOLOGY]_Pata=C3=B1jali's_syntax?= In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <012098C8-DA1E-4426-B4E8-7B23C6081B67@illinois.edu> Dear All, A clue as to how to interpret yad apazabdaH may lie in the morphology of apabhASitavai, which is a Vedic formation; not also the Vedic particles ha vai. This may make it possible to interpret the passage mleccho ha vai eSo yad apazabdaH as an instance of what I have termed the "invariable yad-construction" (see the grammatical notes in my UpaniSadic Reader); so the translation would be something like this 'That indeed is barbarous [taking mleccha as adjective], namely/viz. incorrect speech.' All the best, Hans Henrich Hock On 30 Oct 2013, at 09:06, Adriano Aprigliano wrote: Thanks to Dominik W. and Lars F. for the propositions. I think yad is the main problem in fact... and still. It is solved by Lars as 'because': the syntax becomes smooth in terms of order, but still taking apazabdah as bahuvriihi sounds to me quite strange. As for Naageza's explanation brought up by Dominik, it leaves yad out, as far as I could gather from the translation. Understanding mleccha as an adjective of apazabda, albeit uncommon, as noted by Naageza himself, seems rather ok. But next the text goes: mlecchaah maa bhumety adhyeyam vyaakaranam. So it seems to me that maybe the commentators were a bit at lost with that construction themselves, don't you think? Best (first response went just to D. Wujastyk, sorry) Prof. Dr. Adriano Aprigliano ?rea de L?ngua e Literatura Latina Faculdade de Filosofia, Letras e Ci?ncias Humanas Universidade de S?o Paulo S?o Paulo, Brasil Em 30/10/2013, ?s 11:40, Dominik Wujastyk escreveu: This exact point was discussed in the Prad?pa and clarified further in the Uddyota. One might think, N?ge?a said, that the word mleccha would usually refer to a person or a place; how could it refer to a bad word? But in this case it is a term of criticism. "A bad word (apa?abda) is really despicable (mleccha)." ("Bad word" is of course probably not one's final choice for translating apa?abda.) -- Dr Dominik Wujastyk Department of South Asia, Tibetan and Buddhist Studies, University of Vienna, Spitalgasse 2-4, Courtyard 2, Entrance 2.1 1090 Vienna, Austria and Adjunct Professor, Division of Health and Humanities, St. John's Research Institute, Bangalore, India. Project | home page | HSSA | PGP On 30 October 2013 13:38, Adriano Aprigliano > wrote: Dear colleagues, I have been having doubts on how to translate this MBh?? sentence (Kielhorn, p.2, line 8): te'sur??. te sur? helayo helaya iti kurvanta? par?babh?vu?. tasm?d br?hma?ena na mlecchitavai n?pabh??itavai. mleccho ha v? e?a yad apa?abda?. The problem is on the last sentence, what to make of that yad apa?abda?. I start with ' for this one/he is indeed a mleccha...". Any suggestions? best wishes Prof. Dr. Adriano Aprigliano ?rea de L?ngua e Literatura Latina Faculdade de Filosofia, Letras e Ci?ncias Humanas Universidade de S?o Paulo S?o Paulo, Brasil _______________________________________________ INDOLOGY mailing list INDOLOGY at list.indology.info http://listinfo.indology.info _______________________________________________ INDOLOGY mailing list INDOLOGY at list.indology.info http://listinfo.indology.info -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From aprigliano at usp.br Wed Oct 30 14:33:56 2013 From: aprigliano at usp.br (Adriano Aprigliano) Date: Wed, 30 Oct 13 12:33:56 -0200 Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_[INDOLOGY]_Pata=C3=B1jali's_syntax?= In-Reply-To: <012098C8-DA1E-4426-B4E8-7B23C6081B67@illinois.edu> Message-ID: Right, Hans, This usage is also referred to by MW (??? ???? ??? ????? ??????? ??? ??? , " the gods then saw this thunderbolt, to wit , the water " S3Br.) It seems to be the best possibility so far, but hard to interpret, always confusing this use of yad... Thanks to all Prof. Dr. Adriano Aprigliano ?rea de L?ngua e Literatura Latina Faculdade de Filosofia, Letras e Ci?ncias Humanas Universidade de S?o Paulo S?o Paulo, Brasil Em 30/10/2013, ?s 12:21, Hock, Hans Henrich escreveu: > Dear All, > > A clue as to how to interpret yad apazabdaH may lie in the morphology of apabhASitavai, which is a Vedic formation; not also the Vedic particles ha vai. This may make it possible to interpret the passage mleccho ha vai eSo yad apazabdaH as an instance of what I have termed the "invariable yad-construction" (see the grammatical notes in my UpaniSadic Reader); so the translation would be something like this 'That indeed is barbarous [taking mleccha as adjective], namely/viz. incorrect speech.' > > All the best, > > Hans Henrich Hock > > > > On 30 Oct 2013, at 09:06, Adriano Aprigliano wrote: > >> Thanks to Dominik W. and Lars F. for the propositions. >> >> I think yad is the main problem in fact... and still. It is solved by Lars as 'because': the syntax becomes smooth in terms of order, but still taking apazabdah as bahuvriihi sounds to me quite strange. >> >> As for Naageza's explanation brought up by Dominik, it leaves yad out, as far as I could gather from the translation. >> >> Understanding mleccha as an adjective of apazabda, albeit uncommon, as noted by Naageza himself, seems rather ok. But next the text goes: mlecchaah maa bhumety adhyeyam vyaakaranam. >> >> So it seems to me that maybe the commentators were a bit at lost with that construction themselves, don't you think? >> >> Best >> >> (first response went just to D. Wujastyk, sorry) >> >> Prof. Dr. Adriano Aprigliano >> ?rea de L?ngua e Literatura Latina >> >> Faculdade de Filosofia, Letras e Ci?ncias Humanas >> Universidade de S?o Paulo >> S?o Paulo, Brasil >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Em 30/10/2013, ?s 11:40, Dominik Wujastyk escreveu: >> >>> This exact point was discussed in the Prad?pa and clarified further in the Uddyota. One might think, N?ge?a said, that the word mleccha would usually refer to a person or a place; how could it refer to a bad word? But in this case it is a term of criticism. "A bad word (apa?abda) is really despicable (mleccha)." >>> >>> ("Bad word" is of course probably not one's final choice for translating apa?abda.) >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Dr Dominik Wujastyk >>> Department of South Asia, Tibetan and Buddhist Studies, >>> University of Vienna, >>> Spitalgasse 2-4, Courtyard 2, Entrance 2.1 >>> 1090 Vienna, Austria >>> and >>> Adjunct Professor, >>> Division of Health and Humanities, >>> St. John's Research Institute, Bangalore, India. >>> Project | home page | HSSA | PGP >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> On 30 October 2013 13:38, Adriano Aprigliano wrote: >>> Dear colleagues, >>> >>> I have been having doubts on how to translate this MBh?? sentence (Kielhorn, p.2, line 8): >>> >>> te'sur??. te sur? helayo helaya iti kurvanta? par?babh?vu?. tasm?d br?hma?ena na mlecchitavai n?pabh??itavai. mleccho ha v? e?a yad apa?abda?. >>> >>> The problem is on the last sentence, what to make of that yad apa?abda?. I start with ' for this one/he is indeed a mleccha...". >>> >>> Any suggestions? >>> >>> best wishes >>> >>> Prof. Dr. Adriano Aprigliano >>> ?rea de L?ngua e Literatura Latina >>> >>> Faculdade de Filosofia, Letras e Ci?ncias Humanas >>> Universidade de S?o Paulo >>> S?o Paulo, Brasil >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> INDOLOGY mailing list >>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info >>> http://listinfo.indology.info >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> INDOLOGY mailing list >> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info >> http://listinfo.indology.info > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dbhattacharya200498 at yahoo.com Wed Oct 30 15:23:24 2013 From: dbhattacharya200498 at yahoo.com (Dipak Bhattacharya) Date: Wed, 30 Oct 13 23:23:24 +0800 Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_[INDOLOGY]_Pata=C3=B1jali's_syntax?= In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <1383146604.44046.YahooMailNeo@web193503.mail.sg3.yahoo.com> te'sur??. te sur? helayo helaya iti kurvanta? par?babh?vu?. tasm?d br?hma?ena na mlecchitavai n?pabh??itavai. mleccho ha v? e?a yad apa?abda?. ?(The sentence beginning with) ?Those demons?. Those demons while making (the sounds) ?he ?layo he ?laya?? suffered defeat. So a Brahmin should not speak like a barbarian. For a corrupt word is indeed a barbarian.? After Dr ?K.C.Chatterji. Pata?jali?s Mahabh??ya Paspa??hnika Calcutta 1953 Best DB ? On Wednesday, 30 October 2013 8:04 PM, Adriano Aprigliano wrote: Right, Hans, This usage is also referred to by MW (??? ???? ??? ????? ??????? ??? ????, " the gods then saw this thunderbolt, to wit , the water "?S3Br.) It seems to be the best possibility so far, but hard to interpret, always confusing this use of yad... Thanks to all Prof. Dr. Adriano Aprigliano ?rea de L?ngua e Literatura Latina ? Faculdade de Filosofia, Letras e Ci?ncias Humanas Universidade de S?o Paulo S?o Paulo, Brasil Em 30/10/2013, ?s 12:21, Hock, Hans Henrich escreveu: Dear All, A clue as to how to interpret yad apazabdaH?may lie in the morphology of apabhASitavai, which is a Vedic formation; not also the Vedic particles ha vai. This may make it possible to interpret the passage mleccho ha vai eSo yad apazabdaH?as an instance of what I have termed the "invariable yad-construction" (see the grammatical notes in my UpaniSadic Reader); so the translation would be something like this 'That indeed is barbarous [taking mleccha?as adjective], namely/viz. incorrect speech.' All the best, Hans Henrich Hock On 30 Oct 2013, at 09:06, Adriano Aprigliano wrote: Thanks to Dominik W. and Lars F. for the propositions.? > > >I think yad is the main problem in fact... and still. It is solved by Lars as 'because': the syntax becomes smooth in terms of order, but still taking apazabdah as bahuvriihi sounds to me quite strange.? > > >As for Naageza's explanation brought up by Dominik, it leaves yad out, as far as I could gather from the translation.? > > >Understanding mleccha as an adjective of apazabda, albeit uncommon, as noted by Naageza himself, seems rather ok. But next the text goes: mlecchaah maa bhumety adhyeyam vyaakaranam.? > > >So it seems to me that maybe the commentators were a bit at lost with that construction themselves, don't you think? > > Best > > >(first response went just to D. Wujastyk, sorry) > > >Prof. Dr. Adriano Aprigliano >?rea de L?ngua e Literatura Latina >? >Faculdade de Filosofia, Letras e Ci?ncias Humanas >Universidade de S?o Paulo >S?o Paulo, Brasil > > > > > > > > >Em 30/10/2013, ?s 11:40, Dominik Wujastyk escreveu: > >This exact point was discussed in the Prad?pa and clarified further in the Uddyota.?? One might think, N?ge?a said, that the word mleccha would usually refer to a person or a place; how could it refer to a bad word?? But in this case it is a term of criticism.? "A bad word (apa?abda) is really despicable (mleccha)."? >> >> >>("Bad word" is of course probably not one's final choice for translating apa?abda.) >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >>-- >>Dr Dominik Wujastyk >>Department of South Asia, Tibetan and Buddhist Studies, >>University of Vienna, >>Spitalgasse 2-4, Courtyard 2, Entrance 2.1 >>1090 Vienna, Austria >>and >>Adjunct Professor, >>Division of Health and Humanities, >>St. John's Research Institute, Bangalore, India. >>Project | home page | HSSA | PGP >> >> >> >> >> >> >>On 30 October 2013 13:38, Adriano Aprigliano wrote: >> >>Dear colleagues, >>> >>> >>>I have been having doubts on how to translate this MBh?? sentence (Kielhorn, p.2, line 8): >>> >>> >>>te'sur??. te sur? helayo helaya iti kurvanta? par?babh?vu?. tasm?d br?hma?ena na mlecchitavai n?pabh??itavai. mleccho ha v? e?a yad apa?abda?. >>> >>> >>>The problem is on the last sentence, what to make of that yad apa?abda?. I start with ' for this one/he is indeed a mleccha...".? >>> >>> >>>Any suggestions? >>> >>> >>>best wishes >>> >>> >>>Prof. Dr. Adriano Aprigliano >>>?rea de L?ngua e Literatura Latina >>>? >>>Faculdade de Filosofia, Letras e Ci?ncias Humanas >>>Universidade de S?o Paulo >>>S?o Paulo, Brasil >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>_______________________________________________ >>>INDOLOGY mailing list >>>INDOLOGY at list.indology.info >>>http://listinfo.indology.info >>> >> > _______________________________________________ >INDOLOGY mailing list >INDOLOGY at list.indology.info >http://listinfo.indology.info _______________________________________________ INDOLOGY mailing list INDOLOGY at list.indology.info http://listinfo.indology.info -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From gruenen at sub.uni-goettingen.de Wed Oct 30 16:01:44 2013 From: gruenen at sub.uni-goettingen.de (Gruenendahl, Reinhold) Date: Wed, 30 Oct 13 16:01:44 +0000 Subject: [INDOLOGY] GRETIL update #424 Message-ID: <044C4CE033BD474EBE2ACACE8E4B1D943FC69E19@UM-excdag-a02.um.gwdg.de> GRETIL is pleased to be able to report the following addition(s) to its collection: Sanskrit works revised/restored: Asokavadana: http://gretil.sub.uni-goettingen.de/gretil.htm#DSBC_Sa056 Kalidasa: Abhijnanasakuntala: http://gretil.sub.uni-goettingen.de/gretil.htm#KalSakun Ramayana: cumulative version of Kandas 1-7: http://gretil.sub.uni-goettingen.de/gretil.htm#Ram Ramayana, Southern version, Kanda 2: http://gretil.sub.uni-goettingen.de/gretil.htm#RamSouth Sardulakarnavadana: http://gretil.sub.uni-goettingen.de/gretil.htm#SardulkAv Sarvatathagatosnisasitatpatra-nama-aparitamahapratyangiravidyarajni: http://gretil.sub.uni-goettingen.de/gretil.htm#Sitatapatra Tamil works revised/restored: Cittar Patalkal Tokuppu I: http://gretil.sub.uni-goettingen.de/gretil.htm#PM0076 Cittar Patalkal Tokuppu II: http://gretil.sub.uni-goettingen.de/gretil.htm#PM0083 Iramalinka Cuvamikal: Tiruvarutpa, Tirumurai 6.4: http://gretil.sub.uni-goettingen.de/gretil.htm#PM0018 Maranattul Valvom: http://gretil.sub.uni-goettingen.de/gretil.htm#PM0088 Minatcicuntaram Pillai: Pirapantat tirattu, Part 1: http://gretil.sub.uni-goettingen.de/gretil.htm#PM0184 Pattirakiriyar Patalkal: Meynnanap pulampal: http://gretil.sub.uni-goettingen.de/gretil.htm#PM0074 Tirumalikaittevar: Tiruvicaippa Tiruppalantu (9th Tirumurai): http://gretil.sub.uni-goettingen.de/gretil.htm#PM0092 Vilampinakanar: Nanmanikkatikai: http://gretil.sub.uni-goettingen.de/gretil.htm#PM0047 __________________________________________________________________________ "GRETIL is intended as a cumulative register of the numerous download sites for electronic texts in Indian languages." (from the 2001 "mission statement") GRETIL - Goettingen Register of Electronic Texts in Indian Languages: http://gretil.sub.uni-goettingen.de/gretil.htm From aprigliano at usp.br Wed Oct 30 16:49:15 2013 From: aprigliano at usp.br (Adriano Aprigliano) Date: Wed, 30 Oct 13 14:49:15 -0200 Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_[INDOLOGY]_Pata=C3=B1jali's_syntax?= In-Reply-To: <1383146604.44046.YahooMailNeo@web193503.mail.sg3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <0201265A-736A-4574-85B3-B59895601F97@usp.br> Dear colleagues, We have reached the solutions bellow: Lars Fosse: [mleccho ha v? e?a][yad apa?abda?], "this one is indeed a mleccha because [yad = yasm?t] he is one whose speech is ungrammatical [apa?abdah being a bahuvr?hi of the masculine idea in e?a?]? D. Wujastyk through N?ge?a: "a bad word [apa?abda?] is really despicable [mleccha?]", probably here also yad for yasm?t (? because a bad word??); Hans Hoch opts for the invariable yad-construction (= namely, viz.), also referred to by MW in his yad-entry: " that is to say " , " to wit " e.g. ??? ???? ??? ????? ??????? ??? ??? , " the gods then saw this thunderbolt , to wit , the water ?. Hoch gave: ?That indeed is barbarous [taking mleccha as adjective], namely/viz. incorrect speech.? Also G. Cardona e D. Bhattacarya understand the yad for an adverbial yad (= yasm?d, ? because?). The gloss in S?ktiratn?kara quoted by Cardona being ?yad yasm?d apa?abdo mleccho, mlecchatay?tiprasiddha ity artha??. So the adverbial yad seems to have been preferred by most. Still I ask if anyone doesn?t feel the position of the yad to be awkward in this passage. Would it be accounted for just by the wider freedom of sanskrit word order or by some decorum in imitating the Vedic style. Also of note, in the MW example ?if he is wright?, we have the same awkward position. Thanks a lot to all for the immense help. Prof. Dr. Adriano Aprigliano ?rea de L?ngua e Literatura Latina Faculdade de Filosofia, Letras e Ci?ncias Humanas Universidade de S?o Paulo S?o Paulo, Brasil Em 30/10/2013, ?s 13:23, Dipak Bhattacharya escreveu: > te'sur??. te sur? helayo helaya iti kurvanta? par?babh?vu?. tasm?d br?hma?ena na mlecchitavai n?pabh??itavai. mleccho ha v? e?a yad apa?abda?. > ?(The sentence beginning with) ?Those demons?. > Those demons while making (the sounds) ?he ?layo he ?laya?? suffered defeat. So a Brahmin should not speak like a barbarian. For a corrupt word is indeed a barbarian.? > After Dr K.C.Chatterji. Pata?jali?s Mahabh??ya Paspa??hnika > Calcutta 1953 > Best > DB > > > > On Wednesday, 30 October 2013 8:04 PM, Adriano Aprigliano wrote: > Right, Hans, > > This usage is also referred to by MW (??? ???? ??? ????? ??????? ??? ??? , " the gods then saw this thunderbolt, to wit , the water " S3Br.) > > It seems to be the best possibility so far, but hard to interpret, always confusing this use of yad... > > Thanks to all > > Prof. Dr. Adriano Aprigliano > ?rea de L?ngua e Literatura Latina > > Faculdade de Filosofia, Letras e Ci?ncias Humanas > Universidade de S?o Paulo > S?o Paulo, Brasil > > > > > > > > > Em 30/10/2013, ?s 12:21, Hock, Hans Henrich escreveu: > > > Dear All, > > A clue as to how to interpret yad apazabdaH may lie in the morphology of apabhASitavai, which is a Vedic formation; not also the Vedic particles ha vai. This may make it possible to interpret the passage mleccho ha vai eSo yad apazabdaH as an instance of what I have termed the "invariable yad-construction" (see the grammatical notes in my UpaniSadic Reader); so the translation would be something like this 'That indeed is barbarous [taking mleccha as adjective], namely/viz. incorrect speech.' > > All the best, > > Hans Henrich Hock > > > > On 30 Oct 2013, at 09:06, Adriano Aprigliano wrote: > >> Thanks to Dominik W. and Lars F. for the propositions. >> >> I think yad is the main problem in fact... and still. It is solved by Lars as 'because': the syntax becomes smooth in terms of order, but still taking apazabdah as bahuvriihi sounds to me quite strange. >> >> As for Naageza's explanation brought up by Dominik, it leaves yad out, as far as I could gather from the translation. >> >> Understanding mleccha as an adjective of apazabda, albeit uncommon, as noted by Naageza himself, seems rather ok. But next the text goes: mlecchaah maa bhumety adhyeyam vyaakaranam. >> >> So it seems to me that maybe the commentators were a bit at lost with that construction themselves, don't you think? >> >> Best >> >> (first response went just to D. Wujastyk, sorry) >> >> Prof. Dr. Adriano Aprigliano >> ?rea de L?ngua e Literatura Latina >> >> Faculdade de Filosofia, Letras e Ci?ncias Humanas >> Universidade de S?o Paulo >> S?o Paulo, Brasil >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Em 30/10/2013, ?s 11:40, Dominik Wujastyk escreveu: >> >>> This exact point was discussed in the Prad?pa and clarified further in the Uddyota. One might think, N?ge?a said, that the word mleccha would usually refer to a person or a place; how could it refer to a bad word? But in this case it is a term of criticism. "A bad word (apa?abda) is really despicable (mleccha)." >>> >>> ("Bad word" is of course probably not one's final choice for translating apa?abda.) >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Dr Dominik Wujastyk >>> Department of South Asia, Tibetan and Buddhist Studies, >>> University of Vienna, >>> Spitalgasse 2-4, Courtyard 2, Entrance 2.1 >>> 1090 Vienna, Austria >>> and >>> Adjunct Professor, >>> Division of Health and Humanities, >>> St. John's Research Institute, Bangalore, India. >>> Project | home page | HSSA | PGP >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> On 30 October 2013 13:38, Adriano Aprigliano wrote: >>> Dear colleagues, >>> >>> I have been having doubts on how to translate this MBh?? sentence (Kielhorn, p.2, line 8): >>> >>> te'sur??. te sur? helayo helaya iti kurvanta? par?babh?vu?. tasm?d br?hma?ena na mlecchitavai n?pabh??itavai. mleccho ha v? e?a yad apa?abda?. >>> >>> The problem is on the last sentence, what to make of that yad apa?abda?. I start with ' for this one/he is indeed a mleccha...". >>> >>> Any suggestions? >>> >>> best wishes >>> >>> Prof. Dr. Adriano Aprigliano >>> ?rea de L?ngua e Literatura Latina >>> >>> Faculdade de Filosofia, Letras e Ci?ncias Humanas >>> Universidade de S?o Paulo >>> S?o Paulo, Brasil >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> INDOLOGY mailing list >>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info >>> http://listinfo.indology.info >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> INDOLOGY mailing list >> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info >> http://listinfo.indology.info > > > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > http://listinfo.indology.info > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From aprigliano at usp.br Wed Oct 30 18:34:19 2013 From: aprigliano at usp.br (Adriano Aprigliano) Date: Wed, 30 Oct 13 16:34:19 -0200 Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_[INDOLOGY]_Pata=C3=B1jali's_syntax?= In-Reply-To: <9193914C-02BC-4CEC-8598-1B87631BAD66@verizon.net> Message-ID: Dear colleague, Still on the order matter, in the commentary you quote, the commentator understands e?a? as bound to apa?abda?, forming the subject part of the sentence (e?o'pa?abda?), and mleccha? as the predicate ?if I understood it right? ("this deviant word is [indeed] barbaric, known as barbaric"). But if that is so, how to account, syntactically, for yad being in between e?a? and apa?abda? in the original text? Would it be possible with e?a? as an adjective pronoun? Best wishes Prof. Dr. Adriano Aprigliano ?rea de L?ngua e Literatura Latina Faculdade de Filosofia, Letras e Ci?ncias Humanas Universidade de S?o Paulo S?o Paulo, Brasil Em 30/10/2013, ?s 13:00, George Cardona escreveu: > Dear colleague, If I understand you properly, you consider that the expected form should be ya?, construed with apa?abda?, hence the syntactic problem. On the other hand, yad can be adverbial, equivalent to yasm?t. This is the syntax given in the S?ktiratn?kara (ed. Vaman Shastri Bhagavat, p. 44.5-6): ???????? ?????????????? ? ??? ???????????????? ???????? ???????????????????? ????????? > On Oct 30, 2013, at 8:38 AM, Adriano Aprigliano wrote: > >> Dear colleagues, >> >> I have been having doubts on how to translate this MBh?? sentence (Kielhorn, p.2, line 8): >> >> te'sur??. te sur? helayo helaya iti kurvanta? par?babh?vu?. tasm?d br?hma?ena na mlecchitavai n?pabh??itavai. mleccho ha v? e?a yad apa?abda?. >> >> The problem is on the last sentence, what to make of that yad apa?abda?. I start with ' for this one/he is indeed a mleccha...". >> >> Any suggestions? >> >> best wishes >> >> Prof. Dr. Adriano Aprigliano >> ?rea de L?ngua e Literatura Latina >> >> Faculdade de Filosofia, Letras e Ci?ncias Humanas >> Universidade de S?o Paulo >> S?o Paulo, Brasil >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> INDOLOGY mailing list >> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info >> http://listinfo.indology.info > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From wujastyk at gmail.com Wed Oct 30 19:01:26 2013 From: wujastyk at gmail.com (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Wed, 30 Oct 13 20:01:26 +0100 Subject: [INDOLOGY] viz. Message-ID: ?May I mention, as a native British-English speaker, that nobody has said "viz." since about 1900. Except Indologists. I think it's okay now, we can stop. :-) [image: Inline images 1] -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From LubinT at wlu.edu Wed Oct 30 19:40:49 2013 From: LubinT at wlu.edu (Lubin, Tim) Date: Wed, 30 Oct 13 19:40:49 +0000 Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_[INDOLOGY]_Pata=C3=B1jali's_syntax?= In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Dear Adriano, However one wishes to explain yad here, this basic sentence structure -- [predicate noun/adj] [+/- ha/hi] [+/- vai] [demonstative pronoun as subject] yad [noun] is ubiquitous in Br?hma?a prose. Just try a mechanical search of Vedic prose and you get many hits. The meaning is pretty clear. For what it is worth, Hans's explanation seems best to me. Clearly all these yads cannot be glossed with yasm?t! from KS: utsannayaj?o v? e?a yad agni? devaratho v? e?a yad yaj?as sam?tayaj?o v? e?a yad dar?ap?r?am?sau << note that e?a agrees with yaj?a? perhaps by attraction TS: mah?n hy e?a yad agnis 2.5.9.1 vipr? hy ete yac chu?ruv??sa? 2.5.9.2 pur???yatano v? e?a yad agnis 5.1.2.4 vajr? v? e?a yad a?vas 5.1.2.6 etc. etc. JUB 1.22: indra e?a yad udg?t? ?BM: devap?tra? v? e?a yad agnis (1.4.2.13) devap?tra? v? e?a yad va?a?k?ra? (1.7.2.13) praj?patir v? e?a yad a??u? (4.6.1.1) b?haspatisavo v? e?a yadv?japeyam (5.2.1.19) << same lack of agreement praj?patir v? e?a yad ajar?abha[?] (5.2.1.24) varu?asavo v? e?a yad r?jas?ya? (5.3.4.12) << lack of agreement etc. etc. This is only a portion found from one search ("e?a yad"; plus one found by chance); using all the other forms of e?a-, and other sandhi for yad will produce a list of hundreds. e.g., from KS: s???ir v? etad had agnihotram TS 2.4.11.1: g?yatr? v? e?? yad u??ih? TS 6.2.10.4: vajra iva v? e?? yad abhrir It would seem that setting off the subject by the intervening yad has the effect of relaxing the sense that the demonstrative pronoun must agree with it, allowing occasional attraction to the predicate. Best wishes, Tim Timothy Lubin Professor of Religion Washington and Lee University Lexington, Virginia 24450 http://home.wlu.edu/~lubint http://wlu.academia.edu/TimothyLubin http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/cf_dev/AbsByAuth.cfm?per_id=930949 From: Adriano Aprigliano > Date: Wednesday, October 30, 2013 2:34 PM To: George Cardona > Cc: Indology > Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] Pata?jali's syntax Dear colleague, Still on the order matter, in the commentary you quote, the commentator understands e?a? as bound to apa?abda?, forming the subject part of the sentence (e?o'pa?abda?), and mleccha? as the predicate ?if I understood it right? ("this deviant word is [indeed] barbaric, known as barbaric"). But if that is so, how to account, syntactically, for yad being in between e?a? and apa?abda? in the original text? Would it be possible with e?a? as an adjective pronoun? Best wishes Prof. Dr. Adriano Aprigliano ?rea de L?ngua e Literatura Latina Faculdade de Filosofia, Letras e Ci?ncias Humanas Universidade de S?o Paulo S?o Paulo, Brasil Em 30/10/2013, ?s 13:00, George Cardona escreveu: Dear colleague, If I understand you properly, you consider that the expected form should be ya?, construed with apa?abda?, hence the syntactic problem. On the other hand, yad can be adverbial, equivalent to yasm?t. This is the syntax given in the S?ktiratn?kara (ed. Vaman Shastri Bhagavat, p. 44.5-6): ???????? ?????????????? ? ??? ???????????????? ???????? ???????????????????? ????????? On Oct 30, 2013, at 8:38 AM, Adriano Aprigliano wrote: Dear colleagues, I have been having doubts on how to translate this MBh?? sentence (Kielhorn, p.2, line 8): te'sur??. te sur? helayo helaya iti kurvanta? par?babh?vu?. tasm?d br?hma?ena na mlecchitavai n?pabh??itavai. mleccho ha v? e?a yad apa?abda?. The problem is on the last sentence, what to make of that yad apa?abda?. I start with ' for this one/he is indeed a mleccha...". Any suggestions? best wishes Prof. Dr. Adriano Aprigliano ?rea de L?ngua e Literatura Latina Faculdade de Filosofia, Letras e Ci?ncias Humanas Universidade de S?o Paulo S?o Paulo, Brasil _______________________________________________ INDOLOGY mailing list INDOLOGY at list.indology.info http://listinfo.indology.info -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From aprigliano at usp.br Wed Oct 30 19:53:58 2013 From: aprigliano at usp.br (Adriano Aprigliano) Date: Wed, 30 Oct 13 17:53:58 -0200 Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_[INDOLOGY]_Pata=C3=B1jali's_syntax?= In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <9BE73C6B-B96D-48CA-A92D-23C1678545A4@usp.br> Dear Andrew, Yes, I think it works. I feel insecure about the causal nature of ha, though. Also by applying this value of vai as topic marker, wouldn't e?a? ?not apa?abda?? be on the predicate spot, since [yad apa?abada?] should be a predicate in apposition to an already given predicate? I don't know If I could made made myself clear... I keep thinking. Best wishes Adriano Prof. Dr. Adriano Aprigliano ?rea de L?ngua e Literatura Latina Faculdade de Filosofia, Letras e Ci?ncias Humanas Universidade de S?o Paulo S?o Paulo, Brasil Em 30/10/2013, ?s 16:53, Andrew Ollett escreveu: > Dear Adriano, > > I am by no means an expert, but I would agree with Dr. Hock about "invariable yat" (discussed by Gonda in Lingua 4:1ff.) for the following reasons: > I take "ha" to be a causal particle (= yasm?t, hence yat != yasm?t); > I take "vai" to mark the topic of the sentence (usually equivalent to the subject: in most nominal sentences, the subject comes AFTER the predicate, i.e., X Y should be translated as "Y is X," but X-vai Y should usually be translated as "X is Y"); > hence "for this mleccha (viz., 'mleccha' in the prohibition "na mlecchitavai") in fact means (yat) 'a bad word'" > Andrew > > > > On Wed, Oct 30, 2013 at 2:34 PM, Adriano Aprigliano wrote: > Dear colleague, > > Still on the order matter, in the commentary you quote, the commentator understands e?a? as bound to apa?abda?, forming the subject part of the sentence (e?o'pa?abda?), and mleccha? as the predicate ?if I understood it right? ("this deviant word is [indeed] barbaric, known as barbaric"). But if that is so, how to account, syntactically, for yad being in between e?a? and apa?abda? in the original text? Would it be possible with e?a? as an adjective pronoun? > > Best wishes > > Prof. Dr. Adriano Aprigliano > ?rea de L?ngua e Literatura Latina > > Faculdade de Filosofia, Letras e Ci?ncias Humanas > Universidade de S?o Paulo > S?o Paulo, Brasil > > > > > > > > > Em 30/10/2013, ?s 13:00, George Cardona escreveu: > >> Dear colleague, If I understand you properly, you consider that the expected form should be ya?, construed with apa?abda?, hence the syntactic problem. On the other hand, yad can be adverbial, equivalent to yasm?t. This is the syntax given in the S?ktiratn?kara (ed. Vaman Shastri Bhagavat, p. 44.5-6): ???????? ?????????????? ? ??? ???????????????? ???????? ???????????????????? ????????? >> On Oct 30, 2013, at 8:38 AM, Adriano Aprigliano wrote: >> >>> Dear colleagues, >>> >>> I have been having doubts on how to translate this MBh?? sentence (Kielhorn, p.2, line 8): >>> >>> te'sur??. te sur? helayo helaya iti kurvanta? par?babh?vu?. tasm?d br?hma?ena na mlecchitavai n?pabh??itavai. mleccho ha v? e?a yad apa?abda?. >>> >>> The problem is on the last sentence, what to make of that yad apa?abda?. I start with ' for this one/he is indeed a mleccha...". >>> >>> Any suggestions? >>> >>> best wishes >>> >>> Prof. Dr. Adriano Aprigliano >>> ?rea de L?ngua e Literatura Latina >>> >>> Faculdade de Filosofia, Letras e Ci?ncias Humanas >>> Universidade de S?o Paulo >>> S?o Paulo, Brasil >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> INDOLOGY mailing list >>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info >>> http://listinfo.indology.info >> > > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > http://listinfo.indology.info > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From aprigliano at usp.br Wed Oct 30 20:02:17 2013 From: aprigliano at usp.br (Adriano Aprigliano) Date: Wed, 30 Oct 13 18:02:17 -0200 Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_[INDOLOGY]_Pata=C3=B1jali's_syntax?= In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <12AC34A9-BF4D-4E23-B7EF-C83D6B23548B@usp.br> Dear Tim, Thanks for the examples. I'll read them carefully. It seems undeniable that they solve the matter. Best wishes to all Adriano Prof. Dr. Adriano Aprigliano ?rea de L?ngua e Literatura Latina Faculdade de Filosofia, Letras e Ci?ncias Humanas Universidade de S?o Paulo S?o Paulo, Brasil Em 30/10/2013, ?s 17:40, Lubin, Tim escreveu: > Dear Adriano, > > However one wishes to explain yad here, this basic sentence structure -- [predicate noun/adj] [+/- ha/hi] [+/- vai] [demonstative pronoun as subject] yad [noun] is ubiquitous in Br?hma?a prose. Just try a mechanical search of Vedic prose and you get many hits. The meaning is pretty clear. For what it is worth, Hans's explanation seems best to me. Clearly all these yads cannot be glossed with yasm?t! > > from KS: > utsannayaj?o v? e?a yad agni? > devaratho v? e?a yad yaj?as > sam?tayaj?o v? e?a yad dar?ap?r?am?sau << note that e?a agrees with yaj?a? perhaps by attraction > > TS: > mah?n hy e?a yad agnis 2.5.9.1 > vipr? hy ete yac chu?ruv??sa? 2.5.9.2 > pur???yatano v? e?a yad agnis 5.1.2.4 > vajr? v? e?a yad a?vas 5.1.2.6 > etc. etc. > > JUB 1.22: > indra e?a yad udg?t? > > ?BM: > devap?tra? v? e?a yad agnis (1.4.2.13) > devap?tra? v? e?a yad va?a?k?ra? (1.7.2.13) > praj?patir v? e?a yad a??u? (4.6.1.1) > b?haspatisavo v? e?a yadv?japeyam (5.2.1.19) << same lack of agreement > praj?patir v? e?a yad ajar?abha[?] (5.2.1.24) > varu?asavo v? e?a yad r?jas?ya? (5.3.4.12) << lack of agreement > etc. etc. > > This is only a portion found from one search ("e?a yad"; plus one found by chance); using all the other forms of e?a-, and other sandhi for yad will produce a list of hundreds. > > e.g., from KS: > s???ir v? etad had agnihotram > > TS 2.4.11.1: > g?yatr? v? e?? yad u??ih? > TS 6.2.10.4: > vajra iva v? e?? yad abhrir > > It would seem that setting off the subject by the intervening yad has the effect of relaxing the sense that the demonstrative pronoun must agree with it, allowing occasional attraction to the predicate. > > Best wishes, > Tim > > Timothy Lubin > Professor of Religion > Washington and Lee University > Lexington, Virginia 24450 > > http://home.wlu.edu/~lubint > http://wlu.academia.edu/TimothyLubin > http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/cf_dev/AbsByAuth.cfm?per_id=930949 > > > > > From: Adriano Aprigliano > Date: Wednesday, October 30, 2013 2:34 PM > To: George Cardona > Cc: Indology > Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] Pata?jali's syntax > > Dear colleague, > > Still on the order matter, in the commentary you quote, the commentator understands e?a? as bound to apa?abda?, forming the subject part of the sentence (e?o'pa?abda?), and mleccha? as the predicate ?if I understood it right? ("this deviant word is [indeed] barbaric, known as barbaric"). But if that is so, how to account, syntactically, for yad being in between e?a? and apa?abda? in the original text? Would it be possible with e?a? as an adjective pronoun? > > Best wishes > > Prof. Dr. Adriano Aprigliano > ?rea de L?ngua e Literatura Latina > > Faculdade de Filosofia, Letras e Ci?ncias Humanas > Universidade de S?o Paulo > S?o Paulo, Brasil > > > > > > > > > Em 30/10/2013, ?s 13:00, George Cardona escreveu: > >> Dear colleague, If I understand you properly, you consider that the expected form should be ya?, construed with apa?abda?, hence the syntactic problem. On the other hand, yad can be adverbial, equivalent to yasm?t. This is the syntax given in the S?ktiratn?kara (ed. Vaman Shastri Bhagavat, p. 44.5-6): ???????? ?????????????? ? ??? ???????????????? ???????? ???????????????????? ????????? >> On Oct 30, 2013, at 8:38 AM, Adriano Aprigliano wrote: >> >>> Dear colleagues, >>> >>> I have been having doubts on how to translate this MBh?? sentence (Kielhorn, p.2, line 8): >>> >>> te'sur??. te sur? helayo helaya iti kurvanta? par?babh?vu?. tasm?d br?hma?ena na mlecchitavai n?pabh??itavai. mleccho ha v? e?a yad apa?abda?. >>> >>> The problem is on the last sentence, what to make of that yad apa?abda?. I start with ' for this one/he is indeed a mleccha...". >>> >>> Any suggestions? >>> >>> best wishes >>> >>> Prof. Dr. Adriano Aprigliano >>> ?rea de L?ngua e Literatura Latina >>> >>> Faculdade de Filosofia, Letras e Ci?ncias Humanas >>> Universidade de S?o Paulo >>> S?o Paulo, Brasil >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> INDOLOGY mailing list >>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info >>> http://listinfo.indology.info >> > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From LubinT at wlu.edu Wed Oct 30 21:59:55 2013 From: LubinT at wlu.edu (Lubin, Tim) Date: Wed, 30 Oct 13 21:59:55 +0000 Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_[INDOLOGY]_Pata=C3=B1jali's_syntax?= In-Reply-To: <9BE73C6B-B96D-48CA-A92D-23C1678545A4@usp.br> Message-ID: In re this message of Andrew's, I differ strongly on the middle bullet point below (scroll down). I tracked this carefully a number of years ago, and though I don't have hard numbers, I would say that the inverse is the case at least 90% of the time or more: vai marks the predicate in a nominal sentence, i.e., X vai Y = Y is X. e.g., u?? v? a?vasya medhyasya ?ira? B?U 1.1.1 The head of the sacrificial horse, clearly, is the dawn. (Olivelle tr.; Hume got it backwards!) That the horse and not the dawn is the topic becomes clear further on in the passage, where the syntax shifts: yad vij?mbhate tad vidyotate? When it yawns, lightning flashes... I don't have time to multiply examples, but if checked it will bear out. In the case of the construction under discussion, it seems to me that the formula "etad- yad Y" is simply an idiomatic expansion of "Y" marked as topic. So Prof. Bhattacharya's rendering of mleccho ha v? e?a yad apa?abda? ("For a corrupt word is indeed a barbarian") gets things in the right order (as well as capturing the sense of the statement as a whole). Tim Em 30/10/2013, ?s 16:53, Andrew Ollett escreveu: Dear Adriano, I am by no means an expert, but I would agree with Dr. Hock about "invariable yat" (discussed by Gonda in Lingua 4:1ff.) for the following reasons: * I take "ha" to be a causal particle (= yasm?t, hence yat != yasm?t); * I take "vai" to mark the topic of the sentence (usually equivalent to the subject: in most nominal sentences, the subject comes AFTER the predicate, i.e., X Y should be translated as "Y is X," but X-vai Y should usually be translated as "X is Y"); * hence "for this mleccha (viz., 'mleccha' in the prohibition "na mlecchitavai") in fact means (yat) 'a bad word'" Andrew ________________________________ Timothy Lubin Professor of Religion Washington and Lee University Lexington, Virginia 24450 http://home.wlu.edu/~lubint http://wlu.academia.edu/TimothyLubin http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/cf_dev/AbsByAuth.cfm?per_id=930949 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From hhhock at illinois.edu Wed Oct 30 22:16:12 2013 From: hhhock at illinois.edu (Hock, Hans Henrich) Date: Wed, 30 Oct 13 22:16:12 +0000 Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_[INDOLOGY]_Pata=C3=B1jali's_syntax?= In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Thanks for this, Tim. I deal with this issue in some detail in my contribution to the just-published proceedings volume of the Veda Section, 15th World Sanskrit Conference--copies available on request. All the best, Hans On 30 Oct 2013, at 16:59, Lubin, Tim wrote: In re this message of Andrew's, I differ strongly on the middle bullet point below (scroll down). I tracked this carefully a number of years ago, and though I don't have hard numbers, I would say that the inverse is the case at least 90% of the time or more: vai marks the predicate in a nominal sentence, i.e., X vai Y = Y is X. e.g., u?? v? a?vasya medhyasya ?ira? B?U 1.1.1 The head of the sacrificial horse, clearly, is the dawn. (Olivelle tr.; Hume got it backwards!) That the horse and not the dawn is the topic becomes clear further on in the passage, where the syntax shifts: yad vij?mbhate tad vidyotate? When it yawns, lightning flashes... I don't have time to multiply examples, but if checked it will bear out. In the case of the construction under discussion, it seems to me that the formula "etad- yad Y" is simply an idiomatic expansion of "Y" marked as topic. So Prof. Bhattacharya's rendering of mleccho ha v? e?a yad apa?abda? ("For a corrupt word is indeed a barbarian") gets things in the right order (as well as capturing the sense of the statement as a whole). Tim Em 30/10/2013, ?s 16:53, Andrew Ollett escreveu: Dear Adriano, I am by no means an expert, but I would agree with Dr. Hock about "invariable yat" (discussed by Gonda in Lingua 4:1ff.) for the following reasons: * I take "ha" to be a causal particle (= yasm?t, hence yat != yasm?t); * I take "vai" to mark the topic of the sentence (usually equivalent to the subject: in most nominal sentences, the subject comes AFTER the predicate, i.e., X Y should be translated as "Y is X," but X-vai Y should usually be translated as "X is Y"); * hence "for this mleccha (viz., 'mleccha' in the prohibition "na mlecchitavai") in fact means (yat) 'a bad word'" Andrew ________________________________ Timothy Lubin Professor of Religion Washington and Lee University Lexington, Virginia 24450 http://home.wlu.edu/~lubint http://wlu.academia.edu/TimothyLubin http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/cf_dev/AbsByAuth.cfm?per_id=930949 _______________________________________________ INDOLOGY mailing list INDOLOGY at list.indology.info http://listinfo.indology.info -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From wujastyk at gmail.com Thu Oct 31 00:09:49 2013 From: wujastyk at gmail.com (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Thu, 31 Oct 13 01:09:49 +0100 Subject: [INDOLOGY] Money for open-access publications being made available to Wellcome Library users Message-ID: In a startling and innovative move, the Wellcome Library in London is offering to pay the article-processing fees for open-access publication by authors whose research incorporates a substantive amount of information from the Wellcome collections. Remember, the Wellcome has a very large collection of Sanskrit, Prakrit, Hindi, Persian, Sinhalese and Tibetan manuscripts and a large collection of Sanskrit and Hindi printed books and lithographs. And the collections are by no means narrowly confined to medical topics, but cover all disciplines, with world-class strengths in tantra, Jainism, ?yurveda, rasa??stra and stotra. For the full statement, see this announcement and video: - http://wellcomelibrary.org/about-us/projects/wellcome-library-open-access-fund/ -- Dr Dominik Wujastyk Department of South Asia, Tibetan and Buddhist Studies , University of Vienna, Spitalgasse 2-4, Courtyard 2, Entrance 2.1 1090 Vienna, Austria and Adjunct Professor, Division of Health and Humanities, St. John's Research Institute, Bangalore, India. Project | home page| HSSA | PGP -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From aprigliano at usp.br Thu Oct 31 09:24:57 2013 From: aprigliano at usp.br (Adriano Aprigliano) Date: Thu, 31 Oct 13 07:24:57 -0200 Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_[INDOLOGY]_Pata=C3=B1jali's_syntax?= In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <2C0B3895-434A-403E-8599-6C3E063F2837@usp.br> Dear colleagues, Since we seem to have reached a safe explanation for the syntactical problem discussed, I write this one just for thanking you all for the suggestions. best wishes Adriano Prof. Dr. Adriano Aprigliano ?rea de L?ngua e Literatura Latina Faculdade de Filosofia, Letras e Ci?ncias Humanas Universidade de S?o Paulo S?o Paulo, Brasil Em 30/10/2013, ?s 20:16, Hock, Hans Henrich escreveu: > Thanks for this, Tim. I deal with this issue in some detail in my contribution to the just-published proceedings volume of the Veda Section, 15th World Sanskrit Conference--copies available on request. > > All the best, > > Hans > > > On 30 Oct 2013, at 16:59, Lubin, Tim wrote: > >> In re this message of Andrew's, I differ strongly on the middle bullet point below (scroll down). I tracked this carefully a number of years ago, and though I don't have hard numbers, I would say that the inverse is the case at least 90% of the time or more: vai marks the predicate in a nominal sentence, i.e., X vai Y = Y is X. >> >> e.g., u?? v? a?vasya medhyasya ?ira? B?U 1.1.1 >> The head of the sacrificial horse, clearly, is the dawn. (Olivelle tr.; Hume got it backwards!) >> >> That the horse and not the dawn is the topic becomes clear further on in the passage, where the syntax shifts: >> >> yad vij?mbhate tad vidyotate? >> When it yawns, lightning flashes... >> >> I don't have time to multiply examples, but if checked it will bear out. >> >> In the case of the construction under discussion, it seems to me that the formula "etad- yad Y" is simply an idiomatic expansion of "Y" marked as topic. >> So Prof. Bhattacharya's rendering of mleccho ha v? e?a yad apa?abda? ("For a corrupt word is indeed a barbarian") gets things in the right order (as well as capturing the sense of the statement as a whole). >> >> Tim >> >> >> Em 30/10/2013, ?s 16:53, Andrew Ollett escreveu: >>> Dear Adriano, >>> >>> I am by no means an expert, but I would agree with Dr. Hock about "invariable yat" (discussed by Gonda in Lingua 4:1ff.) for the following reasons: >>> I take "ha" to be a causal particle (= yasm?t, hence yat != yasm?t); >>> I take "vai" to mark the topic of the sentence (usually equivalent to the subject: in most nominal sentences, the subject comes AFTER the predicate, i.e., X Y should be translated as "Y is X," but X-vai Y should usually be translated as "X is Y"); >>> hence "for this mleccha (viz., 'mleccha' in the prohibition "na mlecchitavai") in fact means (yat) 'a bad word'" >>> Andrew >> >> Timothy Lubin >> Professor of Religion >> Washington and Lee University >> Lexington, Virginia 24450 >> >> http://home.wlu.edu/~lubint >> http://wlu.academia.edu/TimothyLubin >> http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/cf_dev/AbsByAuth.cfm?per_id=930949 >> >> >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> INDOLOGY mailing list >> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info >> http://listinfo.indology.info > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From wujastyk at gmail.com Thu Oct 31 12:08:28 2013 From: wujastyk at gmail.com (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Thu, 31 Oct 13 13:08:28 +0100 Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_[INDOLOGY]_Pata=C3=B1jali's_syntax?= In-Reply-To: <2C0B3895-434A-403E-8599-6C3E063F2837@usp.br> Message-ID: I'm still nagging at what Kaiya?a means by "karma?i gha?". My present best idea is that he's invoking P.3.3.19 *akartari ca k?rake sa?j??y?m*. This implies an origin from *mlich*, which is odd, but can be ignored, I think. So "*mleccha*" is the recipient of the action. This may explain the future pass. part. that N?ge?a uses, *nindy?* "to *be* blamed" (passive). *Mleccha * = "despicable", i.e., it is the *recipient* of criticism. And P.3.3.19 makes "*mleccha*" a *sa?j??*, which is right too. (I don't believe that P. meant *ca* to negate *sa?j??y?m*, even if this *gha?* is desired in non-* sa?j??* cases.) I hope someone can improve on this :-) Dominik On 31 October 2013 10:24, Adriano Aprigliano wrote: > Dear colleagues, > > Since we seem to have reached a safe explanation for the syntactical > problem discussed, I write this one just for thanking you all for the > suggestions. > > best wishes > Adriano > > > *Prof. Dr. Adriano Aprigliano* > ?rea de L?ngua e Literatura Latina**** > ** ** > Faculdade de Filosofia, Letras e Ci?ncias Humanas**** > Universidade de S?o Paulo**** > S?o Paulo, Brasil > > > > > > > > > Em 30/10/2013, ?s 20:16, Hock, Hans Henrich escreveu: > > Thanks for this, Tim. I deal with this issue in some detail in my > contribution to the just-published proceedings volume of the Veda Section, > 15th World Sanskrit Conference--copies available on request. > > All the best, > > Hans > > > On 30 Oct 2013, at 16:59, Lubin, Tim wrote: > > In re this message of Andrew's, I differ strongly on the middle bullet > point below (scroll down). I tracked this carefully a number of years ago, > and though I don't have hard numbers, I would say that the inverse is the > case at least 90% of the time or more: vai marks the predicate in a > nominal sentence, i.e., X vai Y = Y is X. > > e.g., u?? v? a?vasya medhyasya ?ira? B?U 1.1.1 > The head of the sacrificial horse, clearly, is the dawn. (Olivelle tr.; > Hume got it backwards!) > > That the horse and not the dawn is the topic becomes clear further on in > the passage, where the syntax shifts: > > yad vij?mbhate tad vidyotate? > When it yawns, lightning flashes... > > I don't have time to multiply examples, but if checked it will bear out. > > In the case of the construction under discussion, it seems to me that > the formula "etad- yad Y" is simply an idiomatic expansion of "Y" marked as > topic. > So Prof. Bhattacharya's rendering of mleccho ha v? e?a yad > apa?abda? ("For a corrupt word is indeed a barbarian") gets things in the > right order (as well as capturing the sense of the statement as a whole). > > Tim > > > Em 30/10/2013, ?s 16:53, Andrew Ollett escreveu: > > Dear Adriano, > > I am by no means an expert, but I would agree with Dr. Hock about > "invariable yat" (discussed by Gonda in Lingua 4:1ff.) for the following > reasons: > > - I take "ha" to be a causal particle (= yasm?t, hence yat != yasm?t); > - I take "vai" to mark the topic of the sentence (usually equivalent > to the subject: in most nominal sentences, the subject comes AFTER the > predicate, i.e., X Y should be translated as "Y is X," but X-vai Y should > usually be translated as "X is Y"); > - hence "for this mleccha (viz., 'mleccha' in the prohibition "na > mlecchitavai") in fact means (yat) 'a bad word'" > > Andrew > > ------------------------------ > Timothy Lubin > Professor of Religion > Washington and Lee University > Lexington, Virginia 24450 > > http://home.wlu.edu/~lubint > http://wlu.academia.edu/TimothyLubin > http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/cf_dev/AbsByAuth.cfm?per_id=930949 > > > > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > http://listinfo.indology.info > > > > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > http://listinfo.indology.info > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From drdj at austin.utexas.edu Thu Oct 31 15:41:38 2013 From: drdj at austin.utexas.edu (Donald R Davis) Date: Thu, 31 Oct 13 15:41:38 +0000 Subject: =?utf-8?Q?[INDOLOGY]_Meaning_of_Pa=E1=B9=ADa=3F?= Message-ID: <1a8f9c69dad44d6ab58a3e0d79759adc@BY2PR06MB188.namprd06.prod.outlook.com> Dear Colleagues, I am working on the Sm?ticandrik? of Deva??abha??a and its discussion of documents. Several passages in the sub-section on r?ja??sana enjoin a king to inscribe a land grant ?pa?e v? t?mrapa??e v?.? Y?j?avalkya (1.319) is the first, I think. Most translators have rendered pa?a here as ?cloth,? which makes no sense to me, as I have never seen a cloth inscription of this sort and it seems an unusually non-durable material for an important inscription. So, Amarako?a (and MW lists this, too) gives several synonyms, all of which point to the chirauli/chironji nut (Buchanania Latifolia) or, I suppose, its bark. Can anyone help me identify pa?a here more certainly? I don?t know the first thing about trees and this appears to be a common enough tree in India and other parts of Asia, but is the bark of this tree meant here? Thanks for any help or leads you may have. Best, Don Davis Dept. of Asian Studies University of Texas at Austin -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rsalomon at u.washington.edu Thu Oct 31 18:34:33 2013 From: rsalomon at u.washington.edu (Richard Salomon) Date: Thu, 31 Oct 13 11:34:33 -0700 Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_[INDOLOGY]_Meaning_of_Pa=E1=B9=ADa=3F?= In-Reply-To: <1a8f9c69dad44d6ab58a3e0d79759adc@BY2PR06MB188.namprd06.prod.outlook.com> Message-ID: <5272A2B9.4000207@u.washington.edu> Don, Have a look at D.C. Sircar's Indian Epigraphy, pp. 66-67; also my Indian Epigraphy p. 132, for further references. It has been suggested (I don't remember exactly where -- this may go all the way back to Buehler's Indische Palaeographie) that archival copies of land grants were kept on cloth. Rich Rich Salomon On 10/31/2013 8:41 AM, Donald R Davis wrote: > Dear Colleagues, > > I am working on the /Sm?ticandrik?/ of Deva??abha??a and its discussion > of documents. Several passages in the sub-section on /r?ja??sana/ > enjoin a king to inscribe a land grant ?/pa?e v? t?mrapa??e v?/.? > Y?j?avalkya (1.319) is the first, I think. Most translators have > rendered /pa?a/ here as ?cloth,? which makes no sense to me, as I have > never seen a cloth inscription of this sort and it seems an unusually > non-durable material for an important inscription. So, /Amarako?a/ (and > MW lists this, too) gives several synonyms, all of which point to the > chirauli/chironji nut (Buchanania Latifolia) or, I suppose, its bark. > > Can anyone help me identify /pa?a/ here more certainly? I don?t know > the first thing about trees and this appears to be a common enough tree > in India and other parts of Asia, but is the bark of this tree meant > here? Thanks for any help or leads you may have. > > Best, > > Don Davis > > Dept. of Asian Studies > > University of Texas at Austin > > > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > http://listinfo.indology.info > -- ---------------------- Richard Salomon Department of Asian Languages and Literature University of Washington, Box 353521 Seattle WA 98195-3521 USA From gthomgt at gmail.com Thu Oct 31 21:20:20 2013 From: gthomgt at gmail.com (George Thompson) Date: Thu, 31 Oct 13 17:20:20 -0400 Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_[INDOLOGY]_Meaning_of_Pa=E1=B9=ADa=3F?= In-Reply-To: <5272A2B9.4000207@u.washington.edu> Message-ID: Hello Don, This also may be relevant to your question. Mayrhofer in his KEWA [sv: paTaH (sorry, Dominik, we are philologists here, for the most part, and we have an incorrigible habit of displaying our knowledge of Latin rhetorical short-hand); none of us talk like this, of course!]: Mayrhofer there, glossing paTa as "woven cloth, garment, blanket," refers also to three neuter nouns: paTalam: 1 = cover, veil; 2 = heap, mass; 3 = basket. He also cites a masculine noun paTalaH = section of a book. The propetymology of these words are difficult On Thu, Oct 31, 2013 at 2:34 PM, Richard Salomon wrote: > Don, > > Have a look at D.C. Sircar's Indian Epigraphy, pp. 66-67; also my Indian > Epigraphy p. 132, for further references. It has been suggested (I don't > remember exactly where -- this may go all the way back to Buehler's > Indische Palaeographie) that archival copies of land grants were kept on > cloth. > > Rich > > Rich Salomon > > > On 10/31/2013 8:41 AM, Donald R Davis wrote: > >> Dear Colleagues, >> >> I am working on the /Sm?ticandrik?/ of Deva??abha??a and its discussion >> of documents. Several passages in the sub-section on /r?ja??sana/ >> enjoin a king to inscribe a land grant ?/pa?e v? t?mrapa??e v?/.? >> >> Y?j?avalkya (1.319) is the first, I think. Most translators have >> rendered /pa?a/ here as ?cloth,? which makes no sense to me, as I have >> >> never seen a cloth inscription of this sort and it seems an unusually >> non-durable material for an important inscription. So, /Amarako?a/ (and >> >> MW lists this, too) gives several synonyms, all of which point to the >> chirauli/chironji nut (Buchanania Latifolia) or, I suppose, its bark. >> >> Can anyone help me identify /pa?a/ here more certainly? I don?t know >> >> the first thing about trees and this appears to be a common enough tree >> in India and other parts of Asia, but is the bark of this tree meant >> here? Thanks for any help or leads you may have. >> >> Best, >> >> Don Davis >> >> Dept. of Asian Studies >> >> University of Texas at Austin >> >> >> >> ______________________________**_________________ >> INDOLOGY mailing list >> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info >> http://listinfo.indology.info >> >> > -- > ---------------------- > > Richard Salomon > Department of Asian Languages and Literature > University of Washington, Box 353521 > Seattle WA 98195-3521 > USA > > > ______________________________**_________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > http://listinfo.indology.info -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From gthomgt at gmail.com Thu Oct 31 21:32:25 2013 From: gthomgt at gmail.com (George Thompson) Date: Thu, 31 Oct 13 17:32:25 -0400 Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_[INDOLOGY]_Meaning_of_Pa=E1=B9=ADa=3F?= In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Dear List, I apologize for accidentally sending my note before it was finished. The last paragraph should read: The proposed etymologies of these words are all difficult, but their meanings are more or less clear, and probably related. Hope this helps, George On Thu, Oct 31, 2013 at 5:20 PM, George Thompson wrote: > Hello Don, > > This also may be relevant to your question. > > Mayrhofer in his KEWA [sv: paTaH (sorry, Dominik, we are philologists > here, for the most part, and we have an incorrigible habit of displaying > our knowledge of Latin rhetorical short-hand); none of us talk like this, > of course!]: > > Mayrhofer there, glossing paTa as "woven cloth, garment, blanket," refers > also to three neuter nouns: paTalam: 1 = cover, veil; 2 = heap, mass; 3 = > basket. > > He also cites a masculine noun paTalaH = section of a book. > > The propetymology of these words are difficult > > > On Thu, Oct 31, 2013 at 2:34 PM, Richard Salomon < > rsalomon at u.washington.edu> wrote: > >> Don, >> >> Have a look at D.C. Sircar's Indian Epigraphy, pp. 66-67; also my Indian >> Epigraphy p. 132, for further references. It has been suggested (I don't >> remember exactly where -- this may go all the way back to Buehler's >> Indische Palaeographie) that archival copies of land grants were kept on >> cloth. >> >> Rich >> >> Rich Salomon >> >> >> On 10/31/2013 8:41 AM, Donald R Davis wrote: >> >>> Dear Colleagues, >>> >>> I am working on the /Sm?ticandrik?/ of Deva??abha??a and its discussion >>> of documents. Several passages in the sub-section on /r?ja??sana/ >>> enjoin a king to inscribe a land grant ?/pa?e v? t?mrapa??e v?/.? >>> >>> Y?j?avalkya (1.319) is the first, I think. Most translators have >>> rendered /pa?a/ here as ?cloth,? which makes no sense to me, as I have >>> >>> never seen a cloth inscription of this sort and it seems an unusually >>> non-durable material for an important inscription. So, /Amarako?a/ (and >>> >>> MW lists this, too) gives several synonyms, all of which point to the >>> chirauli/chironji nut (Buchanania Latifolia) or, I suppose, its bark. >>> >>> Can anyone help me identify /pa?a/ here more certainly? I don?t know >>> >>> the first thing about trees and this appears to be a common enough tree >>> in India and other parts of Asia, but is the bark of this tree meant >>> here? Thanks for any help or leads you may have. >>> >>> Best, >>> >>> Don Davis >>> >>> Dept. of Asian Studies >>> >>> University of Texas at Austin >>> >>> >>> >>> ______________________________**_________________ >>> INDOLOGY mailing list >>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info >>> http://listinfo.indology.info >>> >>> >> -- >> ---------------------- >> >> Richard Salomon >> Department of Asian Languages and Literature >> University of Washington, Box 353521 >> Seattle WA 98195-3521 >> USA >> >> >> ______________________________**_________________ >> INDOLOGY mailing list >> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info >> http://listinfo.indology.info > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From LubinT at wlu.edu Thu Oct 31 21:48:56 2013 From: LubinT at wlu.edu (Lubin, Tim) Date: Thu, 31 Oct 13 21:48:56 +0000 Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_[INDOLOGY]_Meaning_of_Pa=E1=B9=ADa=3F?= In-Reply-To: Message-ID: To George's references we can add Turner, CDIAL, 7692, pa?a- 'woven cloth', cf. 2pa??a- 'cloth, woven silk', with many cognates with related meanings in other Indian languages. Many inscriptions make it clear that the decree or grant contained in them were written first on perishable material (e.g., palm leaf), transmitted in that form, and only secondarily copied onto durable material -- a process sometimes self-consciously reflected upon in the inscription itself. This is clearly the case even with A?oka's edicts (including reflection on the purpose of making permanent, public versions). So why not cloth? We know of its use in Tibet and China. Tim From: George Thompson > Date: Thursday, October 31, 2013 5:32 PM Cc: "indology at list.indology.info" > Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] Meaning of Pa?a? Dear List, I apologize for accidentally sending my note before it was finished. The last paragraph should read: The proposed etymologies of these words are all difficult, but their meanings are more or less clear, and probably related. Hope this helps, George On Thu, Oct 31, 2013 at 5:20 PM, George Thompson > wrote: Hello Don, This also may be relevant to your question. Mayrhofer in his KEWA [sv: paTaH (sorry, Dominik, we are philologists here, for the most part, and we have an incorrigible habit of displaying our knowledge of Latin rhetorical short-hand); none of us talk like this, of course!]: Mayrhofer there, glossing paTa as "woven cloth, garment, blanket," refers also to three neuter nouns: paTalam: 1 = cover, veil; 2 = heap, mass; 3 = basket. He also cites a masculine noun paTalaH = section of a book. The propetymology of these words are difficult On Thu, Oct 31, 2013 at 2:34 PM, Richard Salomon > wrote: Don, Have a look at D.C. Sircar's Indian Epigraphy, pp. 66-67; also my Indian Epigraphy p. 132, for further references. It has been suggested (I don't remember exactly where -- this may go all the way back to Buehler's Indische Palaeographie) that archival copies of land grants were kept on cloth. Rich Rich Salomon On 10/31/2013 8:41 AM, Donald R Davis wrote: Dear Colleagues, I am working on the /Sm?ticandrik?/ of Deva??abha??a and its discussion of documents. Several passages in the sub-section on /r?ja??sana/ enjoin a king to inscribe a land grant ?/pa?e v? t?mrapa??e v?/.? Y?j?avalkya (1.319) is the first, I think. Most translators have rendered /pa?a/ here as ?cloth,? which makes no sense to me, as I have never seen a cloth inscription of this sort and it seems an unusually non-durable material for an important inscription. So, /Amarako?a/ (and MW lists this, too) gives several synonyms, all of which point to the chirauli/chironji nut (Buchanania Latifolia) or, I suppose, its bark. Can anyone help me identify /pa?a/ here more certainly? I don?t know the first thing about trees and this appears to be a common enough tree in India and other parts of Asia, but is the bark of this tree meant here? Thanks for any help or leads you may have. Best, Don Davis Dept. of Asian Studies University of Texas at Austin _______________________________________________ INDOLOGY mailing list INDOLOGY at list.indology.info http://listinfo.indology.info -- ---------------------- Richard Salomon Department of Asian Languages and Literature University of Washington, Box 353521 Seattle WA 98195-3521 USA _______________________________________________ INDOLOGY mailing list INDOLOGY at list.indology.info http://listinfo.indology.info -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rajam at earthlink.net Thu Oct 31 21:57:13 2013 From: rajam at earthlink.net (Rajam) Date: Thu, 31 Oct 13 14:57:13 -0700 Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_[INDOLOGY]_Meaning_of_Pa=E1=B9=ADa=3F?= In-Reply-To: Message-ID: In Old Tamil, "pa?am" (????) refers to a robe, and "pa??m" (?????) refers to a painted cloth. Regards, Rajam On Oct 31, 2013, at 2:48 PM, Lubin, Tim wrote: > To George's references we can add Turner, CDIAL, 7692, pa?a- 'woven cloth', cf. 2pa??a- 'cloth, woven silk', with many cognates with related meanings in other Indian languages. > > Many inscriptions make it clear that the decree or grant contained in them were written first on perishable material (e.g., palm leaf), transmitted in that form, and only secondarily copied onto durable material -- a process sometimes self-consciously reflected upon in the inscription itself. This is clearly the case even with A?oka's edicts (including reflection on the purpose of making permanent, public versions). So why not cloth? We know of its use in Tibet and China. > > Tim > > From: George Thompson > Date: Thursday, October 31, 2013 5:32 PM > Cc: "indology at list.indology.info" > Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] Meaning of Pa?a? > > Dear List, > > I apologize for accidentally sending my note before it was finished. The last paragraph should read: > > The proposed etymologies of these words are all difficult, but their meanings are more or less clear, and probably related. > > Hope this helps, > > George > > > On Thu, Oct 31, 2013 at 5:20 PM, George Thompson wrote: >> Hello Don, >> >> This also may be relevant to your question. >> >> Mayrhofer in his KEWA [sv: paTaH (sorry, Dominik, we are philologists here, for the most part, and we have an incorrigible habit of displaying our knowledge of Latin rhetorical short-hand); none of us talk like this, of course!]: >> >> Mayrhofer there, glossing paTa as "woven cloth, garment, blanket," refers also to three neuter nouns: paTalam: 1 = cover, veil; 2 = heap, mass; 3 = basket. >> >> He also cites a masculine noun paTalaH = section of a book. >> >> The propetymology of these words are difficult >> >> >> On Thu, Oct 31, 2013 at 2:34 PM, Richard Salomon wrote: >>> Don, >>> >>> Have a look at D.C. Sircar's Indian Epigraphy, pp. 66-67; also my Indian Epigraphy p. 132, for further references. It has been suggested (I don't remember exactly where -- this may go all the way back to Buehler's Indische Palaeographie) that archival copies of land grants were kept on cloth. >>> >>> Rich >>> >>> Rich Salomon >>> >>> >>> On 10/31/2013 8:41 AM, Donald R Davis wrote: >>>> Dear Colleagues, >>>> >>>> I am working on the /Sm?ticandrik?/ of Deva??abha??a and its discussion >>>> of documents. Several passages in the sub-section on /r?ja??sana/ >>>> enjoin a king to inscribe a land grant ?/pa?e v? t?mrapa??e v?/.? >>>> >>>> Y?j?avalkya (1.319) is the first, I think. Most translators have >>>> rendered /pa?a/ here as ?cloth,? which makes no sense to me, as I have >>>> >>>> never seen a cloth inscription of this sort and it seems an unusually >>>> non-durable material for an important inscription. So, /Amarako?a/ (and >>>> >>>> MW lists this, too) gives several synonyms, all of which point to the >>>> chirauli/chironji nut (Buchanania Latifolia) or, I suppose, its bark. >>>> >>>> Can anyone help me identify /pa?a/ here more certainly? I don?t know >>>> >>>> the first thing about trees and this appears to be a common enough tree >>>> in India and other parts of Asia, but is the bark of this tree meant >>>> here? Thanks for any help or leads you may have. >>>> >>>> Best, >>>> >>>> Don Davis >>>> >>>> Dept. of Asian Studies >>>> >>>> University of Texas at Austin >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> INDOLOGY mailing list >>>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info >>>> http://listinfo.indology.info >>>> >>> >>> -- >>> ---------------------- >>> >>> Richard Salomon >>> Department of Asian Languages and Literature >>> University of Washington, Box 353521 >>> Seattle WA 98195-3521 >>> USA >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> INDOLOGY mailing list >>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info >>> http://listinfo.indology.info >> > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info > http://listinfo.indology.info -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: