[INDOLOGY] Nagararjuna finger pointing to moon reference?

Wed Mar 20 13:15:47 UTC 2013

Thank you, Prof Vielle, for also clarifying this issue.

The English unauthorized translation you mentioned is/was freely available
on the net, it includes five volumes corresponding to the five ones
published in Louvain (the first two in very difficult conditions, as
mentioned by Mgr Lamotte in the preface). I would like to add it is not
always a faithful rendering of the French (compared with the late Sara
Boin-Webb's), is far for being flawless (especially in copying Sk/Pa
words/canonical phrases restored by Lamotte), and has many other
misspellings.

Best wishes,
Eugen Ciurtin
(Institute for the History of Religions, Bucharest)

2013/3/20 Christophe Vielle <christophe.vielle at uclouvain.be>

> It is to be note that Gelongma Migme Chödrön's translation from Lamotte
> has not the right to be published.
> The extract below is not concerned, nor copies of the whole translation in
> private sharing, but the work is made available illegally at:
>
>
> http://fr.scribd.com/doc/54581347/The-Treatise-on-the-Great-Virtue-of-Wisdom2
> ****
>
>
> http://fr.scribd.com/doc/53288920/Maha-prajnaparamita-sastra-Vol-1-by-Nagarjuna
> ****
>
> http://fr.scribd.com/doc/116837742/46671115-Maha-Prajnaparamita-Sastra-Vol-5-by-Nagarjuna
>
>
> Following what it is declared at
> http://www.gampoabbey.org/translation-committee.php,
> I am interested to know if the vol. 2-4 are also available on web-sites,
> and the same for
> the Mahaayaanasa.mgraha (PIOL 8),
> or the translation of Van den Broeck's translation of the Am.rtarasa (PIOL
> 15).
>
> Best wishes,
> Christophe Vielle
> on behalf of the
> (Publications de l')Institut orientaliste de Louvain
>
> Addendum: authorized translations (outside PIOL-Peeters):
>
> • Tadeusz Skorupski : *The Six Perfections: An abridged Version of E.
> Lamotte’s French Translation of **Nāgārjuna’s MahāprajñāpāramitāśāstraChapters XVI-XXX
> *, Tring : The Institute of Buddhist Studies, 2002, Buddhica Britannica,
> series continua 9.
> • E. Lamotte : *The Teaching of Vimalakīrti (Vimalakīrtinirdeśa)*,* *transl.
> by Sara Boin London : The Pali Text Society, [1976] 1994, Sacred Books of
> the Buddhists 32.
> *• *E. Lamotte : *Karmasiddhiprakaraṇa: The Treatise on Action by
> Vasubandhu*, transl. by Leo M. Pruden, Asian Humanities Press, 1988.
> *• *E. Lamotte : *Śūramgamasamādhisūtra: The Concentration of Heroic
> Progress. An Early Mahāyāna Buddhist Scripture*, transl. by Sara
> Boin-Webb, London : The Buddhist Society - Curzon Press, 1998 [1999].
>
> Le 20 mars 2013 à 09:31, Dean Michael Anderson a écrit :
>
> Thanks Dan!
>
> Michael Dorfman also sent me this information below -- also from the
> Chinese, I guess.
>
> Is there scholarly consensus about whether Nagarjuna might actually have
> said it?
>
> Best,
>
> Dean
>
> "Relying on the meaning (arthapratisaraṇa), since goodwill or malice,
> defect or merit, falsity or truth, cannot be attributed to meaning. It is
> the letter (vyañjana) that indicates the meaning (artha), but the meaning
> is not the letter. Suppose a man points his finger at the moon to people
> who doubt the moon's presence; if these doubters fixate on the finger but
> do not look at the moon, this man tells them: "I am pointing to the moon
> with my finger so that you may notice the moon. Why do you fixate on my
> finger instead of looking at the moon?"  It is the same here: the letter
> (vyañjana) is the finger pointing to the meaning (artha), but the letter is
> not the meaning. This is why one should not rely on the letter."
>
> Page 425 of the attached translation of the Māhāprajñāpāramitāśāstra.
> THE TREATISE ON THE GREAT VIRTUE OF WISDOM OF NĀGĀRJUNA
> (MAHĀPRAJÑĀPĀRAMITĀŚĀSTRA)
> ÉTIENNE LAMOTTE
> VOL. I , CHAPTERS I – XV
>
> TRANSLATED BY
> THE TRIPIṬAKADHARMĀCĀRYA KUMĀRAJIVA
>  Translated from the French By Gelongma Karma Migme Chodron 2001
>
>   ------------------------------
> *From:* Dan Lusthaus <vasubandhu at earthlink.net>
> *To:* Indology <indology at list.indology.info>
> *Sent:* Tuesday, March 19, 2013 3:37 PM
> *Subject:* Re: [INDOLOGY] Nagararjuna finger pointing to moon reference?
>
> 
> Dear Dean,
>
> I don't know of any Sanskrit texts offhand that make that claim in
> Nagarjuna's name, but the Dazhidu lun (WG: Ta chih-tu lun), translated by
> Kumārajīva into Chinese in the first decade of the fifth century which he
> attributes to Nagarjuna (it is considered a commentary on the
> Prajñāpāramitā sūtra), contains that line three times: Twice at T
> 25.1509.125a29-b5, and then once again at T.25.1509.726a2-3.
>
> Aside from Nagarjuna attributions, one also finds that line in all three
> Chinese trs. of the Laṅkāvatāra sūtra:
>
> by Guṇabhadra (tr between 435-443 CE): T.16.670.510c17
> by Bodhiruci (513 CE): T.16.671.557a20
> by Śikṣānanda (ca. 700 CE): T.16.672.620a15
>
> It is also found in Guṇabhadra's tr. of the Aṅgulimālīya sūtra (tr between
> 435-443), T.2.20.537a11-12 (Yangjuemolo jing)
>
> Dan Lusthaus
>
>
>
> Does anyone have the exact text reference for the statement attributed to
> Nagarjuna that one should look to the moon, not the finger pointing to the
> moon? In other words, the words of the teaching are not the same as their
> realization.
>
> Best,
>
> Dean
>
>
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>
>
> –––––––––––––––––––
> Christophe Vielle <http://www.uclouvain.be/christophe.vielle>
> Louvain-la-Neuve
>
> Editor, *Publications de l'Institut Orientaliste de Louvain* series
> - Last Indological issues: PIOL nos 53<http://www.peeters-leuven.be/boekoverz.asp?nr=7858>
> , 60 <http://www.peeters-leuven.be/boekoverz.asp?nr=9084>
> - Still available: Mahāprajñāpāramitāśāstra (vols 1<http://www.peeters-leuven.be/boekoverz.asp?nr=2873>
> -2 <http://www.peeters-leuven.be/boekoverz.asp?nr=2875>-3<http://www.peeters-leuven.be/boekoverz.asp?nr=2827>
> -4 <http://www.peeters-leuven.be/boekoverz.asp?nr=2847>-5<http://www.peeters-leuven.be/boekoverz.asp?nr=2871>
> ),  Asaṅga's Mahāyānasaṃgraha<http://www.peeters-leuven.be/boekoverz.asp?nr=2839>
> , Vimalakīrtinirdeśa <http://www.peeters-leuven.be/boekoverz.asp?nr=2893>
> , Lamotte's History of Indian Buddhism<http://www.peeters-leuven.be/boekoverz.asp?nr=2895>,
> etc.
>
>
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