From soni at staff.uni-marburg.de  Mon Jul  1 04:26:06 2013
From: soni at staff.uni-marburg.de (soni at staff.uni-marburg.de)
Date: Mon, 01 Jul 13 06:26:06 +0200
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Vi-duu 06
Message-ID: <20130701062606.Horde.nNJbP4ecwTlR0QTeQhUD1DA@home.staff.uni-marburg.de>

To Readers and Lovers of Sanskrit,

It is a great pleasure for me to publish this issue of Vi-duu,  
Vidud-duutah, the E-Messenger, with sincere thanks to Professors  
Saroja Bhate and Ashok Aklujkar for making it a special one. I  
appreciate their timely submissions.

This issue is special because responses to views on Sanskrit as a  
lingua franca are cordially invited. If these can be sent to me  
(jayandra.soni at sanskritassociation.org ; Cc:  
soni at staff.uni-marburg.de) by the end of August, it is possible that  
both the response(s) and reply (or replies) could be published in the  
next issue(s) of Vi-duu.

With best wishes from a now cool and humid Kashi,
Jayendra

PS: You might have to download the file rather than read it in a  
Preview function, because the fonts are embedded in the PDF file.

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From gayathrigrdevi at gmail.com  Mon Jul  1 08:38:38 2013
From: gayathrigrdevi at gmail.com (gayathri)
Date: Mon, 01 Jul 13 14:08:38 +0530
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Dear List
Message-ID: <CAMoOoXHAewwSJ1pCyzHicr182ZMpg3azXNnP9RDrgqS2z=0Quw@mail.gmail.com>

I would be very much grateful if somebody suggests some texts or articles
referring the Kerala Advaity Vagbhatananda.


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From neill at g.harvard.edu  Mon Jul  1 08:44:44 2013
From: neill at g.harvard.edu (Neill, Tyler)
Date: Mon, 01 Jul 13 14:14:44 +0530
Subject: [INDOLOGY] question for European Indologists
Message-ID: <CABOsp66C7Cb4pjczFWW7zbmgukgtDqMS2i2s7DOQiDMUheuaXQ@mail.gmail.com>

Following up on Victor's post on Lanman's personal copy of the Reader, i
can confirm that that is indeed Lanman's handwriting in the back, having
done some work with his personal papers.

Also of note in this version of the book is a brief bibliographical section
on pages xvii - xx, entitled "A Brief List of Books for Students of
Sanskrit", which, as far as i know, was quietly left out of many later
printings of the book. It is, however, noteworthy, in that Lanman there
gives his concise appraisal of each book's pedagogical value.

Should Dominik or else anyone else who cannot access this online book wish
to see it, i'm happy to forward on the pdf.

tyler

On Mon, Jul 1, 2013 at 9:56 AM, <indology-request at list.indology.info> wrote:

> Send INDOLOGY mailing list submissions to
>         indology at list.indology.info
>
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
>
> http://list.indology.info/mailman/listinfo/indology_list.indology.info
>
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
>         indology-request at list.indology.info
>
> You can reach the person managing the list at
>         indology-owner at list.indology.info
>
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of INDOLOGY digest..."
>
> Today's Topics:
>
>    1. Free book download: Ananda Wood's Knowledge Before        Printing
>       and After ... (Dominik Wujastyk)
>    2. Re: question for European Indologists (Dominik Wujastyk)
>    3. Re: question for European Indologists (Audrey Truschke)
>    4. Vi-duu 06 (soni at staff.uni-marburg.de)
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: Dominik Wujastyk <wujastyk at gmail.com>
> To: Indology <indology at list.indology.info>
> Cc:
> Date: Sun, 30 Jun 2013 20:34:05 +0200
> Subject: [INDOLOGY] Free book download: Ananda Wood's Knowledge Before
> Printing and After ...
> Knowledge Before Printing and After: The Indian Tradition in Changing
> Kerala<http://www.swb.co.in/store/freebooks/knowledge-printing-and-after-indian-tradition-changing-kerala>
> *Ananda Wood*
>
> Downloadable from here: http://www.swb.co.in/store/freEbooks
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: Dominik Wujastyk <wujastyk at gmail.com>
> To: victor davella <vbd203 at googlemail.com>, Indology <
> indology at list.indology.info>
> Cc:
> Date: Mon, 1 Jul 2013 00:50:15 +0200
> Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] question for European Indologists
> Not viewable from Europe :-(
>
>
>
> On 30 June 2013 16:12, victor davella <vbd203 at googlemail.com> wrote:
>
>> It might be of interest to know that Lanman's personal copy (or at least
>> one of them) is available on Google Books here<http://books.google.com/books?id=qh8UAAAAYAAJ&pg=PP1#v=onepage&q&f=false>.
>> There are a few vocabulary notes at the beginning, but at the end there is
>> a page with the "Expenses of Sanskrit Reader." I assume these are all in
>> his own hand. There are other annotations throughout the vocabulary.
>>
>> All the Best,
>>
>> Victor
>>
>>
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: Audrey Truschke <audrey.truschke at gmail.com>
> To:
> Cc: Indology <indology at list.indology.info>
> Date: Sun, 30 Jun 2013 18:28:41 -0500
> Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] question for European Indologists
> Here it is: https://archive.org/details/ASanskritReader
>
> --
> Audrey Truschke
> Research Fellow, 2012 Caius Fund Research Fellow
> Gonville and Caius College
> University of Cambridge
> audrey.truschke at gmail.com
> http://www.columbia.edu/~aat2120/
>
> On Sun, Jun 30, 2013 at 5:50 PM, Dominik Wujastyk <wujastyk at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > Not viewable from Europe :-(
> >
> >
> >
> > On 30 June 2013 16:12, victor davella <vbd203 at googlemail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> It might be of interest to know that Lanman's personal copy (or at least
> >> one of them) is available on Google Books here. There are a few
> vocabulary
> >> notes at the beginning, but at the end there is a page with the
> "Expenses of
> >> Sanskrit Reader." I assume these are all in his own hand. There are
> other
> >> annotations throughout the vocabulary.
> >>
> >> All the Best,
> >>
> >> Victor
> >>
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > INDOLOGY mailing list
> > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> > http://listinfo.indology.info
>
>
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: soni at staff.uni-marburg.de
> To: indology at list.indology.info, INDOLOGIE at LISTSERV.UNI-HEIDELBERG.DE
> Cc: Saroja Bhate <bhatesaroja at gmail.com>
> Date: Mon, 01 Jul 2013 06:26:06 +0200
> Subject: [INDOLOGY] Vi-duu 06
> To Readers and Lovers of Sanskrit,
>
> It is a great pleasure for me to publish this issue of Vi-duu,
> Vidud-duutah, the E-Messenger, with sincere thanks to Professors Saroja
> Bhate and Ashok Aklujkar for making it a special one. I appreciate their
> timely submissions.
>
> This issue is special because responses to views on Sanskrit as a lingua
> franca are cordially invited. If these can be sent to me (jayandra.soni@**
> sanskritassociation.org <jayandra.soni at sanskritassociation.org> ; Cc:
> soni at staff.uni-marburg.de) by the end of August, it is possible that both
> the response(s) and reply (or replies) could be published in the next
> issue(s) of Vi-duu.
>
> With best wishes from a now cool and humid Kashi,
> Jayendra
>
> PS: You might have to download the file rather than read it in a Preview
> function, because the fonts are embedded in the PDF file.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> http://list.indology.info/mailman/listinfo/indology_list.indology.info
>
>


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From narenthiran.r at ifpindia.org  Mon Jul  1 09:47:04 2013
From: narenthiran.r at ifpindia.org (Narenderan)
Date: Mon, 01 Jul 13 15:17:04 +0530
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Current contents of HSSA Vol. 7, no. 2 (2013)
In-Reply-To: <51D14FDA.4080107@ifpindia.org>
Message-ID: <51D15018.7040309@ifpindia.org>



Dear Sir/Madam,


Please see below current contents of  History and Sociology of South Asia

Volume 7, no. 2, July 2013i


Contents

Articles

Antinomies of Pluralism: Modulating Conceptions of

Politics and Agency in India

Sasheej Hegde

Engaging the 'Long 1980s': On the Emergence of the

Mission Mode of State-fabrication in India

Sailen Routray

Reordering of Postcolonial Sri Pa-da Temple in Sri Lanka:

Buddhism, State and Nationalism

Premakumara De Silva

Intelligence Failure or Design?: Karkare, Kamte and the

Campaign for 26/11 Truth

Sukumar Muralidharan

Book Reviews

Narayanan Lakshamanan, Patrons of the Poor: Caste Politics and 
Policymaking in India

Reviewed by Krishna Swamy Dara

Anjan Ghosh, Tapati Guha-Thakurta and Janaki Nair, eds, Theorizing the 
Present: Essays for Partha Chatterjee

Reviewed by Partha Pratim Shil

Prabhat Patnaik, Re-envisioning Socialism

Reviewed by Satyaki Roy

Sujata Patel ed., Doing Sociology in India: Genealogies, Locations, and 
Practices

Reviewed by Sheena Jain


  Thanks


-- 
Narenthiran. R
Librarian
French Institute of Pondicherry
11, Saint Louis Street
P.B.33, Pondicherry 605001
Phone # 91-413-2334168 Extn 126/139
Mobile: 9442934327
Web:www.ifpindia.org
Email :narenthiran.r at ifpindia.org







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From gthomgt at gmail.com  Mon Jul  1 20:45:50 2013
From: gthomgt at gmail.com (George Thompson)
Date: Mon, 01 Jul 13 16:45:50 -0400
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Charles Malamoud & Boris Oguibenine & Harry Falk
Message-ID: <CAP1Y1zuraqMKvH27gO0QtPr-m2dWh7zPYeeK7QJzZbpq+zSokg@mail.gmail.com>

Dear List,

I would be most grateful if the email addresses off these scholars could be
forwarded to me off-list, for the sake of their privacy.

 thank you,

George Thompson


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From jpo at uts.cc.utexas.edu  Mon Jul  1 20:59:28 2013
From: jpo at uts.cc.utexas.edu (Patrick Olivelle)
Date: Mon, 01 Jul 13 15:59:28 -0500
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Help
Message-ID: <1EDC9555-6218-42D5-9169-3A8797BB9F30@uts.cc.utexas.edu>

Could someone give me the email address of Kunio Harikai? Thanks.

Patrick Olivelle





From kellner at asia-europe.uni-heidelberg.de  Tue Jul  2 06:11:16 2013
From: kellner at asia-europe.uni-heidelberg.de (Birgit Kellner)
Date: Tue, 02 Jul 13 08:11:16 +0200
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Job: Junior Research Group Leader "Digital Humanities"	(Univ. Heidelberg)
In-Reply-To: <CA+KpDtKW_UBhOAFky_gfeCwfPOeeALFvpA4-hO8nScKjBX_66Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <51D26F04.6030009@asia-europe.uni-heidelberg.de>

Dear Colleagues,

(apologies for cross-posting, and for writing in English only).

Please note the following job advertisement in Digital Humanities at the 
University of Heidelberg, and kindly bring it to the attention of 
suitable candidates - the application is open for *all fields of 
humanities*.

Attention: the deadline for applications is already July 10th, 2013, and 
the successful candidate must have knowledge of both English and German.

With best regards,

Birgit Kellner


------------------------------------------------------------------------

University of Heidelberg, Heidelberg
Application Deadline: 10.07.2013

The Cluster of Excellence "Asia and Europe in a Global Context," in
cooperation with the "Heidelberg Graduate School for Mathematical and
Computational Methods in the Sciences", invites applications for the
position of a Junior Research Group Leader in Digital Humanities
(full-time post-doctoral position; German academic salary scale
TVL-13).

The successful candidate is a scholar in any field of the humanities or
relevant to the University's Field of Focus 3 "Cultural Dynamics in
Globalized Worlds". The candidate should investigate new research
questions in his/her field with a transcultural perspective, and with
the support of computational methods. He/She should be familiar with
relevant technologies and computational approaches. He/She has
successfully worked in interdisciplinary projects spanning across
faculties and different research units.

The successful candidate also operates as a node in an expanding digital
humanities network in Heidelberg University and takes an active role in
concerted efforts to secure the sustainability of digital humanities in
a future Heidelberg Center for Digital Humanities. Possible approaches
include, but are not limited to: text mining and text annotation,
analysis of images and iconic representations, semantic modeling of
digitized sources in 2D or 3D, structures and/or dynamics of
spatio-temporal models.

The Junior Research Group Leader will become a member of both the
Cluster "Asia and Europe in a Global Context" and the "Heidelberg
Graduate School for Mathematical and Computational Methods in the
Sciences". Both institutions offer the successful applicant a
well-established and highly dynamic research environment. The Junior
Research Group will consist of a post-doctoral scholar and up to two
doctoral students. Candidates are expected to further develop and expand
this structure through their own funding applications.

Applicants are expected to hold a doctoral degree and to have an
excellent publication and research record. Good knowledge of German and
English is required. The position is offered for three years.

To apply, please submit a CV, a publication list and two references to 
Ina Chebbi,
M.A., Cluster of Excellence "Asia and Europe", Karl Jaspers Centre,
Building 4400, Room 111, Vo?stra?e 2, 69115 Heidelberg.

Your application
and all documents are preferably submitted online as one single PDF file
to chebbi at asia-europe.uni-heidelberg.de
<mailto:chebbi at asia-europe.uni-heidelberg.de>. The deadline for the
application is July 10th, 2013. The job interviews will take place on
July 18th, 2013. Please understand that received applications can not be
returned.

Please note that the University of Heidelberg is an equal opportunity
employer and places particular emphasis on recruiting female scholars.
Disabled applicants with equivalent qualifications will be given
preference.

------------------------------------------------------------------------

Homepage
<http://www.asia-europe.uni-heidelberg.de/en/about-us/jobs/detail/m/junior-research-group-leader-in-digital-humanities.html>




--------
Prof. Dr. Birgit Kellner
Chair in Buddhist Studies
Principal Investigator
Deputy Speaker Research Area D "Historicities and Heritage"
Cluster of Excellence "Asia and Europe in a Global Context - - the 
Dynamics of Transculturality"
University of Heidelberg
Karl Jaspers Centre
Vossstra?e 2, Building 4400
D-69115 Heidelberg
P: +49(0)6221 - 54 4301
F: +49(0)6221 - 54 4012
http://www.asia-europe.uni-heidelberg.de/en/research/cluster-professorships/buddhist-studies.html







From hegartyjm at googlemail.com  Wed Jul  3 07:11:43 2013
From: hegartyjm at googlemail.com (James Hegarty)
Date: Wed, 03 Jul 13 08:11:43 +0100
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Astavakra Samhita
In-Reply-To: <CAGCGLoDO=a4qGFtQLZnOKajedPM50rpLEjTgUtkdfnXdcziwaw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <778011CC-4E10-4C71-9316-675ED67E99E9@gmail.com>

Dear Colleagues,

I have been translating the Astavakra Samhita for students recently. I have also translated the, very different, material from the Mahabharata.

I am working from an Advaita Ashrama edition, but I know nothing about the lower criticism of the text.

Can anyone direct me to work on this topic? Are there any other places that I might find the Astavakra narrative?

I would like to work with manuscripts as well, as this make the topic more interesting for students. Does anyone have any digitised manuscripts of the text? 

Thanks in anticipation,

Best Wishes,

James Hegarty
Cardiff University







From klaus.karttunen at helsinki.fi  Wed Jul  3 08:46:42 2013
From: klaus.karttunen at helsinki.fi (Klaus Karttunen)
Date: Wed, 03 Jul 13 11:46:42 +0300
Subject: [INDOLOGY] question for European Indologists
In-Reply-To: <CABOsp66C7Cb4pjczFWW7zbmgukgtDqMS2i2s7DOQiDMUheuaXQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <6EB6E133-C1A8-4E4E-861B-7E016E64E6CF@helsinki.fi>

Dear Colleagues,

after two weeks holiday nicely without computer I have now read this chain with much interest and like to add the Finnish history. When I started with Sanskrit in 1971 Prof. Aalto was used Stenzler. After his retirement in 1980 it was noted by Asko Parpola and me that the knowledge of German among Finnish students was so poor that Stenzler could not be used with profit. As the examples and texts are good, Asko prepared Finnish notes and vocabulary for them, while I wrote a short grammar in Finnish. It is no translation of Stenzler, but a new work for which I read about 15 grammars in several languages and also adapted much for Finnish speaking students. These works are still used, the grammar now as the (very small) 5th edition, appeared in 2012. After first year, Aalto did and I still do suggest that students start practising independent reading with Lanman, whose notes and vocabulary are very handy and explains things in a way that opens even to a beginner. So I did myself, although in the beginning it was not too easy even with Lanman. The recommendation is accompanied with the warning that the part concerned with the Rgveda in Lanman is wholly antiquated.
Best,
Klaus

Klaus Karttunen
South Asian and Indoeuropean Studies
Asian and African Studies, Department of World Cultures
PL 59 (Unioninkatu 38 B)
00014 University of Helsinki, FINLAND
Tel +358-(0)9-191 22674
Fax +358-(0)9-191 22094
Klaus.Karttunen at helsinki.fi





On Jul 1, 2013, at 11:44 AM, Neill, Tyler wrote:

> Following up on Victor's post on Lanman's personal copy of the Reader, i can confirm that that is indeed Lanman's handwriting in the back, having done some work with his personal papers.
> 
> Also of note in this version of the book is a brief bibliographical section on pages xvii - xx, entitled "A Brief List of Books for Students of Sanskrit", which, as far as i know, was quietly left out of many later printings of the book. It is, however, noteworthy, in that Lanman there gives his concise appraisal of each book's pedagogical value.
> 
> Should Dominik or else anyone else who cannot access this online book wish to see it, i'm happy to forward on the pdf.
> 
> tyler
> 
> On Mon, Jul 1, 2013 at 9:56 AM, <indology-request at list.indology.info> wrote:
> 
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> http://listinfo.indology.info



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From selwyn at ntlworld.com  Wed Jul  3 08:58:20 2013
From: selwyn at ntlworld.com (L.S. Cousins)
Date: Wed, 03 Jul 13 09:58:20 +0100
Subject: [INDOLOGY] question for European Indologists
In-Reply-To: <CAFdBLNg99sqUMUs66BSLpfrpk6L=9g+cMR-+soHZufQXW=0cGQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <51D3E7AC.9030706@ntlworld.com>

I also have been away, but can add one more.

In Cambridge in the  early 1960s we used Lanman, Perry and Macdonell to 
start with.

L.S. Cousins

> In the USA, Lanman's A Sanskrit Reader was, for a century or more, the 
> de facto standard for beginning Sanskrit students (this has changed 
> only in recent decades with the appearance of Goldman and Goldman, 
> Scharf, Hock, etc).
>
> Is there an equivalent introductory text that was used in Europe 
> (Stenzler?) ?Do European Sanskrit students also work with Nala as a 
> first text (which I know is found in Bopp, Boehtlink, Monier-Williams, 
> Stenzler, and Lanman)?
>
> Thanks...I'm just looking for a bit of anecdotal evidence here; any 
> comments will help.?
> -- 
> Herman Tull
> Princeton, NJ






From wujastyk at gmail.com  Wed Jul  3 13:47:51 2013
From: wujastyk at gmail.com (Dominik Wujastyk)
Date: Wed, 03 Jul 13 15:47:51 +0200
Subject: [INDOLOGY] question for European Indologists
Message-ID: <CAKdt-Cdqe--spvB0dFFesBFOSc2sfiyqboJGa=NweY9ctcfLyA@mail.gmail.com>

I
? know the Subject line of this email thread says "European," but ?
I
?'m sure I am not alone in being very curious ?
a
?bout the student experience?
s
? of our colleagues in India and elsewhere in S. Asia.

Best,
Dominik?


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From mailmealakendudas at rediffmail.com  Wed Jul  3 15:53:19 2013
From: mailmealakendudas at rediffmail.com (alakendu das)
Date: Wed, 03 Jul 13 15:53:19 +0000
Subject: [INDOLOGY] mms of Bhasa'a plays
Message-ID: <20130703155319.16370.qmail@f4mail-235-198.rediffmail.com>



   Scholars and Members,

                           Can anyone  elaborate or show nay refernce on   manuscripts of 13 plays by Bhasa' founded by eminent Indologist Ganapathy Shastri.



                                       

                                                      ALAKENDU DAS

                                                    mailmealakendudas at rediffmail.com


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From michaels at asia-europe.uni-heidelberg.de  Wed Jul  3 15:53:24 2013
From: michaels at asia-europe.uni-heidelberg.de (Michaels, Axel)
Date: Wed, 03 Jul 13 17:53:24 +0200
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Stenzler (was "question for European indologists)
Message-ID: <CDFA1376.1783F%michaels@asia-europe.uni-heidelberg.de>

 Dear all,

At Hamburg, my teacher Albrecht Wezler used Perry and Stenzler. However, Stenzler is not Stenzler. As you all might know, one has to differentiate between the different editions. Albrecht rightly complained about the then available 17th edition (by Richard Pischel and Karl F. Geldner) because of the many mistakes (and because of its didactical weakness). Unfortunately, the 18th edition which he himself edited contained more than 200 new mistakes (most but not all have been removed in the 19th ed.). Manfred Mayerhofer once wrote: "How can one learn Sanskrit through `Stenzler" seems to me a conundrum." However, 'Stenzler' was designed as an "Elementarbuch der Sanskrit-Sprache" (thus its full title), i.e. as a reference grammar mainly for those who know Greek and Latin and were thus trained in a certain (and certainly partly inappropriate)  grammatical understanding of languages.

It is also interesting to note the intensity and length of the Sanskrit courses. If I remember it well, in the 19seventies, we had in Hamburg two lessons per week over one year. In Heidelberg, we now teach it in 8 lessons  on 4 days per week stretching also over one year. I always remember an anecdote of Herman Jacobi that Albrecht told in his class (but that I never got verified; perhaps its one of these Indological myths): Jacobi started his Sanskrit course only six weeks before the end of the term. When he then was asked by the Dean (or Vice Chancellor) to change this and start with the course at the beginning of the term, he allegedly said: "Spectabilis/Magifizenz, Sanskrit ist nicht mehr!" (Sanskrit isn't more).

Best, Axel


Prof. Dr. Axel Michaels

Director Excellence Cluster "Asia and Europe in a Global Context"

Universit?t Heidelberg, S?dasien-Institut, Im Neuenheimer Feld 330, D-69120 Heidelberg
Tel. +49-6221-548917 / Fax +49-6221-546338

http://www.asia-europe.uni-heidelberg.de<https://exchange.uni-heidelberg.de/owa/redir.aspx?C=f1a10da1fac4416a98bc5b9c7fcac9d8&URL=http%3a%2f%2fwww.asia-europe.uni-heidelberg.de%2f>
www.ritualdynamik.uni-hd.de<https://exchange.uni-heidelberg.de/owa/redir.aspx?C=f1a10da1fac4416a98bc5b9c7fcac9d8&URL=http%3a%2f%2fwww.ritualdynamik.uni-hd.de%2f>
http://www.sai.uni-heidelberg.de/abt/IND/index.html<https://exchange.uni-heidelberg.de/owa/redir.aspx?C=f1a10da1fac4416a98bc5b9c7fcac9d8&URL=http%3a%2f%2fwww.sai.uni-heidelberg.de%2fabt%2fIND%2findex.html>

Emails:
sek-michaels at uni-heidelberg.de<https://exchange.uni-heidelberg.de/owa/redir.aspx?C=f1a10da1fac4416a98bc5b9c7fcac9d8&URL=mailto%3asek-michaels%40uni-heidelberg.de> (SAI office) -
Axel.Michaels at urz.uni-heidelberg.de<https://exchange.uni-heidelberg.de/owa/redir.aspx?C=f1a10da1fac4416a98bc5b9c7fcac9d8&URL=mailto%3aAxel.Michaels%40urz.uni-heidelberg.de> (official and personal)
michaels at asia-europe.uni-heidelberg.de<https://exchange.uni-heidelberg.de/owa/redir.aspx?C=f1a10da1fac4416a98bc5b9c7fcac9d8&URL=mailto%3amichaels%40asia-europe.uni-heidelberg.de> (Cluster mail)



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From gthomgt at gmail.com  Wed Jul  3 21:01:39 2013
From: gthomgt at gmail.com (George Thompson)
Date: Wed, 03 Jul 13 17:01:39 -0400
Subject: [INDOLOGY] one more request for an email address
Message-ID: <CAP1Y1zt4OpZQz=RiMyLhATtOF9MazMHpAjG+U08KV0T6rrmCFA@mail.gmail.com>

Dear List,

I would like to talk to Phyllis Granoff.  Does anyone have her email
address?  I apologize for these requests for help.  They will stop soon.

Thank you,

George


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From soni at staff.uni-marburg.de  Thu Jul  4 05:18:17 2013
From: soni at staff.uni-marburg.de (soni at staff.uni-marburg.de)
Date: Thu, 04 Jul 13 07:18:17 +0200
Subject: [INDOLOGY] question for European Indologists
In-Reply-To: <CAKdt-Cdqe--spvB0dFFesBFOSc2sfiyqboJGa=NweY9ctcfLyA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20130704071817.Horde.NKx5MIecwTlR1QWZoSTGAEA@home.staff.uni-marburg.de>

The first time I really ?studied? Sanskrit (and then understanding the  
mantras which we had learnt by rote), was in the 70s, and through the  
Jesuit priest Antoine?s book on Sanskrit. in 2 volumes. Now it sounds  
strange that a traditional Sanskritist here in Banaras used this as a  
text book, this was for English speaking students.

By that time I had passed the stage of fearing the classical languages  
as with Latin when we said at school: Latin is a subject as dead as  
dead can be; it killed the ancient Romans and now it?s killing me!
Sanskrit is now keeping me alive.

Jay


Wed, 03 Jul 2013 Dominik Wujastyk wrote

> I
> ? know the Subject line of this email thread says "European," but ?
> I
> ?'m sure I am not alone in being very curious ?
> a
> ?bout the student experience?
> s
> ? of our colleagues in India and elsewhere in S. Asia.
>
> Best,
> Dominik?







From julia.hegewald at uni-bonn.de  Thu Jul  4 06:36:51 2013
From: julia.hegewald at uni-bonn.de (Julia Hegewald)
Date: Thu, 04 Jul 13 08:36:51 +0200
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Newly founded European Association for Asian Art and Archaeology (EAAA) and call for papers
In-Reply-To: <1372673397.34862.YahooMailClassic@web161203.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <CDFAE4A7.F695%julia.hegewald@uni-bonn.de>

Dear colleagues,

Please find attached information on the newly founded European Association
for Asian Art and Archaeology (EAAA) and its first conference in Olomouc,
Czech Republic, in September 2014.

With best wishes,

Julia Hegewald.

-- 
Prof. Dr. Julia A. B. Hegewald
Professor of Oriental Art History
Head of Department
University of Bonn
Institute of Oriental and Asian Studies (IOA)
Department of Asian and Islamic Art History
Adenauerallee 10
53113 Bonn
Germany

Email: julia.hegewald at uni-bonn.de
www.aik.uni-bonn.de
Tel. 0049-228-73 7213
Fax. 0049-228-73 4042



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From christophe.vielle at uclouvain.be  Thu Jul  4 10:35:52 2013
From: christophe.vielle at uclouvain.be (Christophe Vielle)
Date: Thu, 04 Jul 13 12:35:52 +0200
Subject: [INDOLOGY] question for European Indologists
In-Reply-To: <20130704071817.Horde.NKx5MIecwTlR1QWZoSTGAEA@home.staff.uni-marburg.de>
Message-ID: <B277B865-A9B8-4278-965A-A9B0D5222D4C@uclouvain.be>

It is not the first Indian testimony I hear about the practical qualities of Father Robert Antoine's Manual (which in its grammatical explanations follows the indigenous, synchronic, tradition, and in the same time is close to the Jesuit manuals of Latin or Greek which where in use in the European high schools until the 70s). I like it (including all its little defaults) and use it now for teaching in Louvain-la-Neuve since a few years - see more on it from Indology list archives 22-7-2008 below.

I am surprised to not hear on this list about Sanskrit teaching in countries like France and Italy which both have a strong and long tradition in the matter (the Coll?ge the France will celebrate in 2014 the bi-centenary of the creation of the first occidental Sanskrit chair, started with Antoine-L?onard de Ch?zy). I would be interested to know more about the teaching tradition in Italy and the use of manuals such the ones by Pizzagalli (1931), Rampolla del Tindaro (1936) or Della Casa (1980).
In France, I suppose that Victor Henry's "?l?ments de sanscrit classique" (1902), despite its 1963 reprint, is now forgotten. Abel Bergaigne's "Manuel pour ?tudier la langue sanscrite" (1st ed. 1883),  to the reprint of which Louis Renou added an "avant-propos" (1966) underlying the "good" difficulty of it, is still held in high esteem, but apparently no longer in use (to note that Sylvain Brocquet in his recent "grammaire ?l?mentaire et pratique", which is mainly a manual, proposes [p. 450] to start it... after having completed his own one!). Gonda's little grammar (which despite its French title "Manuel de grammaire" is not really a manual) in its French translation by Rosane Rocher (cf. now the 1997 ed. with Oguibenine's addenda), appears to be still widely used as a handout (I personally prefer to propose in this role Renou's "Grammaire ?l?mentaire", 1st ed. 1946).
In French-speaking Belgium, Bergaigne's "Manuel" was used by Louis de La Vall?e Poussin (see what he says in the Pr?face to his former student Joseph Mansion's "Esquisse d'une histoire de la langue sanscrite"). I know that Etienne Lamotte was not fond of teaching elementary grammar: his students had to read and learn by themselves the paradigms etc., and, before to go through the texts, he limited his basic teaching to one lesson on the script, on lesson on the sandhi, and one on the compounds: I have made a .pdf copy of Lamotte's syllabus on the compounds available at
http://belgianindology.blogs.lalibre.be/list/s-b-i-o-library/composition-en-sanskrit.html
http://belgianindology.blogs.lalibre.be/list/s-b-i-o-library/1107017223.pdf

Best wishes,

Christophe Vielle

Le 4 juil. 2013 ? 07:18, soni at staff.uni-marburg.de a ?crit :
> The first time I really ?studied? Sanskrit (and then understanding the mantras which we had learnt by rote), was in the 70s, and through the Jesuit priest Antoine?s book on Sanskrit. in 2 volumes. Now it sounds strange that a traditional Sanskritist here in Banaras used this as a text book, this was for English speaking students.
> 
> By that time I had passed the stage of fearing the classical languages as with Latin when we said at school: Latin is a subject as dead as dead can be; it killed the ancient Romans and now it?s killing me!
> Sanskrit is now keeping me alive.
> 
> Jay
> 
> 
De :  Stella Sandahl <ssandahl at sympatico.ca>

Objet : Sanskrit Primers: R. Antoine's Sanskrit Manual

Date : 22 juillet 2008
? :    INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk

Dear Colleagues,

Good old Antoine! I think it is still relatively easy to get copies in India. Unfortunately, the one I used to have (in two volumes) was printed in India and was very difficult to read because of the so badly printed (and too small) devanagari script, not to speak of the many printing errors. But it was - and remains - a very thorough introduction to Sanskrit along with Kale's grammar (which suffers from the same printing defects).

There seems to be an amazing array of published and unpublished Sanskrit primers which I have been made aware of through kind communications from many colleagues. Mille grazie! Personally I would have liked to try out David Shulman's superb primer.  Unfortunately it is in Hebrew, and the English translation is not yet out.  Maurer  caught my attention because it is amusing with chapters like "The mysterious gerund" and "The Romance of compounds" apart from being very well organized.

Coulson has too much transliteration, and since it is a teach-yourself-book, there is a key to all the exercises which is counter-productive in a class room. Killingley introduces the devanagari script only in lesson 23. Here in Canada, where more than half (and sometimes all) of the students are of Indian origin, a text book using so much transliteration will be perceived as arrogant Western neo-colonialism. And even the least gifted student usually learns the script in two weeks - that's when I stop transliterating.

 There is no ideal text book out there - but there are many very good ones. All of them have their strong and weak points. As the grammar doesn't change from one year the only thing an instructor can change is the text book.

Best regards to all

Stella Sandahl



De : Christophe Vielle <Christophe.Vielle at uclouvain.be>

Objet : Sanskrit Primers: R. Antoine's Sanskrit Manual

Date : 22 juillet 2008
? :    INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk

 

Dear Colleagues,

I dare to add another Sanskrit primer to the other excellent ones (Coulson, Deshpande, etc.) which could have been quoted in the discussion.

Some years ago, I heard through an Indian friend (a Syriac scholar from Kottayam) about the high value of the Sanskrit Manual of Father R. Antoine s.j., a Belgian scholar who taught in St. Xavier's College, Calcutta (cf. http://www.goethals.in/collections/felixrajarticles/robert.htm : Robert Antoine: The Indologist by J Felix Raj, SJ).

More recently, Prof. Winand Callewaert, from the University of Leuven, told me that he was also using Antoine's manual for his 1st year Sanskrit students.

I finally got an exemplar of this manual through an antiquarian bookseller.

The "Part I" is in two volumes entitled "A Sanskrit Manual for High schools" and "Book of Exercises for the Sanskrit Manual" (1953, Catholic Press, Ranchi; a think that there was in the seventies a reprint in one vol.). The 26 lessons, supposed to cover "the matter of the first three years (standards IV to VI or classes VI to VIII)" of High school, appears to fit perfectly with a first year Sanskrit at the university level.

The lessons are very clear, and the vocabulary to learn, Sanskrit sentences to translate and composition exercises well chosen.

The "Part II" "meant as an immediate preparation for the School Final Examination", joins in one vol. 27 lessons and the exercices, in which the Sanskrit sentences are taken from Kaavya-maalaa or Kaalidaasa and classical literature (+ at the end a list of "verbal roots with their principal parts", "Sanskrit-English Glossary" and "English-Sanskrit Glossary"). So, at the end of High school, it was at that time possible to acquire a Sanskrit level as good as here the level of Greek and Latin of my forefathers... (which is now only possible to acquire at the University).

Despite a few misprints to be corrected, the Manual deserves to be reprinted.

I shall try with 1st year students the vol. I for the coming academic year.

With best wishes,

Christophe Vielle

[Addendum 2013:] A .pdf version of the 1st ed.
Antoine, R. 1953-1954, A Sanskrit Manual for High Schools, 2 vols, Calcutta : St. Xavier?s College.
is available at :   http://www.ragalalit.net/priv/ (id = Lalit, pw = komalRe)
A reprint of vol. 1 is available at: http://www.archive.org/details/sanskritmanualfo00antouoft
 


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From svevo.donofrio at unibo.it  Thu Jul  4 11:00:24 2013
From: svevo.donofrio at unibo.it (Svevo D'Onofrio)
Date: Thu, 04 Jul 13 13:00:24 +0200
Subject: [INDOLOGY] question for European Indologists
In-Reply-To: <B277B865-A9B8-4278-965A-A9B0D5222D4C@uclouvain.be>
Message-ID: <822F4A85-520D-4B47-B11B-CA7F65780F2D@unibo.it>

In Bologna we have been using Della Casa since its first publication in 1980 (current edition is 2nd, 1998) for introductory Sanskrit courses. Texts are drawn mainly from the Epics and Katha literature, and there is no key to the exercises.
For intermediate and advanced classes, reference works are usually Whitney and Speyer, and students are always encouraged to attend Sadananda's Spoken Sanskrit Course in Heidelberg.

Best wishes,
Svevo D'Onofrio


Lecturer in Sanskrit Language and Literature
Department of History, Cultures and Civilizations
University of Bologna





Il giorno 04/lug/2013, alle ore 12:35, Christophe Vielle <christophe.vielle at UCLOUVAIN.BE<mailto:christophe.vielle at UCLOUVAIN.BE>> ha scritto:

It is not the first Indian testimony I hear about the practical qualities of Father Robert Antoine's Manual (which in its grammatical explanations follows the indigenous, synchronic, tradition, and in the same time is close to the Jesuit manuals of Latin or Greek which where in use in the European high schools until the 70s). I like it (including all its little defaults) and use it now for teaching in Louvain-la-Neuve since a few years - see more on it from Indology list archives 22-7-2008 below.

I am surprised to not hear on this list about Sanskrit teaching in countries like France and Italy which both have a strong and long tradition in the matter (the Coll?ge the France will celebrate in 2014 the bi-centenary of the creation of the first occidental Sanskrit chair, started with Antoine-L?onard de Ch?zy). I would be interested to know more about the teaching tradition in Italy and the use of manuals such the ones by Pizzagalli (1931), Rampolla del Tindaro (1936) or Della Casa (1980).
In France, I suppose that Victor Henry's "?l?ments de sanscrit classique" (1902), despite its 1963 reprint, is now forgotten. Abel Bergaigne's "Manuel pour ?tudier la langue sanscrite" (1st ed. 1883),  to the reprint of which Louis Renou added an "avant-propos" (1966) underlying the "good" difficulty of it, is still held in high esteem, but apparently no longer in use (to note that Sylvain Brocquet in his recent "grammaire ?l?mentaire et pratique", which is mainly a manual, proposes [p. 450] to start it... after having completed his own one!). Gonda's little grammar (which despite its French title "Manuel de grammaire" is not really a manual) in its French translation by Rosane Rocher (cf. now the 1997 ed. with Oguibenine's addenda), appears to be still widely used as a handout (I personally prefer to propose in this role Renou's "Grammaire ?l?mentaire", 1st ed. 1946).
In French-speaking Belgium, Bergaigne's "Manuel" was used by Louis de La Vall?e Poussin (see what he says in the Pr?face to his former student Joseph Mansion's "Esquisse d'une histoire de la langue sanscrite"). I know that Etienne Lamotte was not fond of teaching elementary grammar: his students had to read and learn by themselves the paradigms etc., and, before to go through the texts, he limited his basic teaching to one lesson on the script, on lesson on the sandhi, and one on the compounds: I have made a .pdf copy of Lamotte's syllabus on the compounds available at
http://belgianindology.blogs.lalibre.be/list/s-b-i-o-library/composition-en-sanskrit.html
http://belgianindology.blogs.lalibre.be/list/s-b-i-o-library/1107017223.pdf

Best wishes,

Christophe Vielle

Le 4 juil. 2013 ? 07:18, soni at staff.uni-marburg.de<mailto:soni at staff.uni-marburg.de> a ?crit :
The first time I really ?studied? Sanskrit (and then understanding the mantras which we had learnt by rote), was in the 70s, and through the Jesuit priest Antoine?s book on Sanskrit. in 2 volumes. Now it sounds strange that a traditional Sanskritist here in Banaras used this as a text book, this was for English speaking students.

By that time I had passed the stage of fearing the classical languages as with Latin when we said at school: Latin is a subject as dead as dead can be; it killed the ancient Romans and now it?s killing me!
Sanskrit is now keeping me alive.

Jay


De :  Stella Sandahl <ssandahl at sympatico.ca<mailto:ssandahl at sympatico.ca>>
Objet : Sanskrit Primers: R. Antoine's Sanskrit Manual
Date : 22 juillet 2008
? :    INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk<mailto:INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk>
Dear Colleagues,
Good old Antoine! I think it is still relatively easy to get copies in India. Unfortunately, the one I used to have (in two volumes) was printed in India and was very difficult to read because of the so badly printed (and too small) devanagari script, not to speak of the many printing errors. But it was - and remains - a very thorough introduction to Sanskrit along with Kale's grammar (which suffers from the same printing defects).
There seems to be an amazing array of published and unpublished Sanskrit primers which I have been made aware of through kind communications from many colleagues. Mille grazie! Personally I would have liked to try out David Shulman's superb primer.  Unfortunately it is in Hebrew, and the English translation is not yet out.  Maurer  caught my attention because it is amusing with chapters like "The mysterious gerund" and "The Romance of compounds" apart from being very well organized.
Coulson has too much transliteration, and since it is a teach-yourself-book, there is a key to all the exercises which is counter-productive in a class room. Killingley introduces the devanagari script only in lesson 23. Here in Canada, where more than half (and sometimes all) of the students are of Indian origin, a text book using so much transliteration will be perceived as arrogant Western neo-colonialism. And even the least gifted student usually learns the script in two weeks - that's when I stop transliterating.
 There is no ideal text book out there - but there are many very good ones. All of them have their strong and weak points. As the grammar doesn't change from one year the only thing an instructor can change is the text book.
Best regards to all
Stella Sandahl

De : Christophe Vielle <Christophe.Vielle at uclouvain.be<mailto:Christophe.Vielle at uclouvain.be>>
Objet : Sanskrit Primers: R. Antoine's Sanskrit Manual
Date : 22 juillet 2008
? :    INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk<mailto:INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk>

Dear Colleagues,
I dare to add another Sanskrit primer to the other excellent ones (Coulson, Deshpande, etc.) which could have been quoted in the discussion.
Some years ago, I heard through an Indian friend (a Syriac scholar from Kottayam) about the high value of the Sanskrit Manual of Father R. Antoine s.j., a Belgian scholar who taught in St. Xavier's College, Calcutta (cf. http://www.goethals.in/collections/felixrajarticles/robert.htm<http://www.goethals.org/robert.htm> : Robert Antoine: The Indologist by J Felix Raj, SJ).
More recently, Prof. Winand Callewaert, from the University of Leuven, told me that he was also using Antoine's manual for his 1st year Sanskrit students.
I finally got an exemplar of this manual through an antiquarian bookseller.
The "Part I" is in two volumes entitled "A Sanskrit Manual for High schools" and "Book of Exercises for the Sanskrit Manual" (1953, Catholic Press, Ranchi; a think that there was in the seventies a reprint in one vol.). The 26 lessons, supposed to cover "the matter of the first three years (standards IV to VI or classes VI to VIII)" of High school, appears to fit perfectly with a first year Sanskrit at the university level.
The lessons are very clear, and the vocabulary to learn, Sanskrit sentences to translate and composition exercises well chosen.
The "Part II" "meant as an immediate preparation for the School Final Examination", joins in one vol. 27 lessons and the exercices, in which the Sanskrit sentences are taken from Kaavya-maalaa or Kaalidaasa and classical literature (+ at the end a list of "verbal roots with their principal parts", "Sanskrit-English Glossary" and "English-Sanskrit Glossary"). So, at the end of High school, it was at that time possible to acquire a Sanskrit level as good as here the level of Greek and Latin of my forefathers... (which is now only possible to acquire at the University).
Despite a few misprints to be corrected, the Manual deserves to be reprinted.
I shall try with 1st year students the vol. I for the coming academic year.
With best wishes,
Christophe Vielle
[Addendum 2013:] A .pdf version of the 1st ed.
Antoine, R. 1953-1954, A Sanskrit Manual for High Schools, 2 vols, Calcutta : St. Xavier?s College.
is available at :   http://www.ragalalit.net/priv/ (id = Lalit, pw = komalRe)
A reprint of vol. 1 is available at: http://www.archive.org/details/sanskritmanualfo00antouoft

_______________________________________________
INDOLOGY mailing list
INDOLOGY at list.indology.info<mailto:INDOLOGY at list.indology.info>
http://listinfo.indology.info


5x1000 AI GIOVANI RICERCATORI
DELL'UNIVERSIT? DI BOLOGNA
Codice Fiscale: 80007010376
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Questa informativa ? inserita in automatico dal sistema al fine esclusivo della realizzazione dei fini istituzionali dell?ente.


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From Ulla.Remmer at assoc.oeaw.ac.at  Thu Jul  4 11:00:53 2013
From: Ulla.Remmer at assoc.oeaw.ac.at (Remmer, Ulla)
Date: Thu, 04 Jul 13 11:00:53 +0000
Subject: [INDOLOGY] tamil recordings
Message-ID: <918375014CBFEF4EA357F3731EA11A8FC0019C@w07exdb1.oeaw.ads>

Dear list members,

thank you for your help last week with the Samaveda.

I have a question from a totally different field today. We have Tamil recordings collected by Hilko Wiardo Schomerus dating from 1929 from  Can anybody give me a transcription with diacritical marks of the following (classical) Tamil texts? I did not find them on GRETIL but on
www.shaivam.org.<http://www.shaivam.org.> Or is there information on how to transfer them into a modern standard transcription with diacritical marks? I have only handwritten documentation that do not seem to be of contemporary standard.


Best wishes,
Ulla Remmer
Phonogrammarchiv of the Austrian Academy of Sciences

------------------------------

1.
Periya-Pur??am (Tillaiv??antha?ar / thillai vAz an^thaNar purANam) 1; 2


(http://www.shaivam.org/siddhanta/thiru12r_02.htm)<http://www.shaivam.org/siddhanta/thiru12r_02.htm>


 AthiyAy n^aTuvumAki aLavu ilA aLavumAkich

 chOthiyAy uNarvumAkith thOnRiya poruLumAkip

 pEthiyA Ekam Akip peNNumAy ANum Akip

 pOthiyA n^iRkum thillaip pothu n^aTam pORRi pORRi



 kaRpanai kaTan^tha chOthi karuNaiyE uruvam Aki

 aRputhak kOlam n^ITi aru maRaich chiRaththin mElAm

 chiRpara viyOmam Akum thiruch chiRRampalaththuL n^inRuZ

 poRpuTan n^aTam cheykinRa pUN^ kazal pORRi pORRi

2.
Tiruvisaipp?  (Tirumurai ix[?]); Tiruppall??du 1; 9.

(http://www.shaivam.org/siddhanta/thiru9r.htm)<http://www.shaivam.org/siddhanta/thiru9r.htm>



mannuka thillai vaLarkan^am paththarkaL va^nychakar pOyakala

ponninchey maNTapath thuLLE pukun^thu puvani yellAm viLaN^ka

annan^aTai maTavAL umaikOn aTiyO mukkaruL purin^thu

pinnaip piRavi yaRukka n^eRithan^tha piththaRkup pallANTu kURuthumE. 1



pAlukku pAlakan vENTi azuthiTap pARkaTal In^thapirAn

mAlukkuch chakkaram anRaruL cheythavan manniya thillaithannuL

Avikkum an^thaNar vAzkinRa chiRRam palamE iTamAkap
pAliththu n^aTTam payilaval lAnukkE pallANTu [kURuthumE. 9]


3.
Tirumu?ai vii: song of Sundram?rtin?yan?r / Sundarar or Cuntarar or Sundaramurthi (8th C.C.E.)/Cuntaram?rti / Sundhara Murthi Nayanar (Sundharar) Thevaram

(http://www.shaivam.org/siddhanta/thiru07r_1.htm)<http://www.shaivam.org/siddhanta/thiru07r_1.htm>

maRRup paRRenak kinRi n^inRirup
pAtha mEmanam pAviththEn
peRRa lumpiRan^ thEni nippiRa
vAtha thanmaivan^ theythinEn
kaRRa varthozu thEththuny chIrkkaRai
yUriR pANTik koTumuTi
n^aRRa vAvunai n^Anma Rakkinuny
chollum n^An^amachchi vAyavE.


4.
Tirumu?ai vii: song of Sundram?rtin?yan?r

(<http://www.shaivam.org/siddhanta/thiru07r_1.htm>http://www.shaivam.org/siddhanta/thiru07r_1.htm)<http://www.shaivam.org/siddhanta/thiru07r_1.htm>

piththApiRai chUTIperu mAnEaru LALA
eththAnmaRa vAthEn^inaik kinREnmanath thunnai
vaiththAypeNNaith thenpAlveNNey n^allUraruT TuRaiyuL
aththAunak kALAyini allEnena lAmE



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From jean-luc.chevillard at univ-paris-diderot.fr  Thu Jul  4 11:18:53 2013
From: jean-luc.chevillard at univ-paris-diderot.fr (Jean-Luc Chevillard)
Date: Thu, 04 Jul 13 16:48:53 +0530
Subject: [INDOLOGY] tamil recordings
In-Reply-To: <918375014CBFEF4EA357F3731EA11A8FC0019C@w07exdb1.oeaw.ads>
Message-ID: <51D55A1D.2040205@univ-paris-diderot.fr>

Dear Ulla,

I can certainly provide you with a standard transliteration
for all these texts
(as can others on this list, who may have possibly already answered you).

I'll continue this off-line,
but as sample,
please find item 4,
as we put it online,
as part of the Digital T?v?ram:

4.
pitt?! pi?aic???! perum???! _aru????!
_ett?l ma?av?t? ni?aikki????? ma?attu _u??ai
vaitt?y; pe??ait te?p?l ve??eynall?r _aru?-tu?aiyu?
_att?!--- _u?akku _??_?y _i?i _all?? _e?al _?m??

Best wishes

-- Jean-Luc Chevillard (Pondicherry)


On 04/07/2013 16:30, Remmer, Ulla wrote:
> Dear list members,
>
>
> thank you for your help last week with the Samaveda.
>
>
> I have a question from a totally different field today. We have Tamil
> recordings collected by Hilko Wiardo Schomerus dating from 1929 from
> Can anybody give me a transcription with diacritical marks of the
> following (classical) Tamil texts? I did not find them on GRETIL but on
> www.shaivam.org. <http://www.shaivam.org.> Or is there information on
> how to transfer them into a modern standard transcription with
> diacritical marks? I have only handwritten documentation that do not
> seem to be of contemporary standard.
>
>
>
> Best wishes,
>
> Ulla Remmer
>
> Phonogrammarchiv of the Austrian Academy of Sciences
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> *
> *
>
> *1.*
>
> *Periya-Pur**??**am (Tillaiv**?**?**antha**?**ar / **thillai vAz
> an^thaNar purANam**) 1; 2*
>
> *
> *
>
> (http://www.shaivam.org/siddhanta/thiru12r_02.htm)  <http://www.shaivam.org/siddhanta/thiru12r_02.htm>
>
>
>   AthiyAy n^aTuvumAki aLavu ilA aLavumAkich
>
>   chOthiyAy uNarvumAkith thOnRiya poruLumAkip
>
>   pEthiyA Ekam Akip peNNumAy ANum Akip
>
>   pOthiyA n^iRkum thillaip pothu n^aTam pORRi pORRi
>
>
>
>   kaRpanai kaTan^tha chOthi karuNaiyE uruvam Aki
>
>   aRputhak kOlam n^ITi aru maRaich chiRaththin mElAm
>
>   chiRpara viyOmam Akum thiruch chiRRampalaththuL n^inRuZ
>
>   poRpuTan n^aTam cheykinRa pUN^ kazal pORRi pORRi
>
> *2.*
>
> *Tiruvisaipp**?****(Tirumurai ix[?]);**Tiruppall**??**du 1; 9.*
>
> (http://www.shaivam.org/siddhanta/thiru9r.htm)  <http://www.shaivam.org/siddhanta/thiru9r.htm>
>
>
>
> mannuka thillai vaLarkan^am paththarkaL va^nychakar pOyakala
>
> ponninchey maNTapath thuLLE pukun^thu puvani yellAm viLaN^ka
>
> annan^aTai maTavAL umaikOn aTiyO mukkaruL purin^thu
>
> pinnaip piRavi yaRukka n^eRithan^tha piththaRkup pallANTu kURuthumE. 1
>
>
>
> pAlukku pAlakan vENTi azuthiTap pARkaTal In^thapirAn
>
> mAlukkuch chakkaram anRaruL cheythavan manniya thillaithannuL
>
> Avikkum an^thaNar vAzkinRa chiRRam palamE iTamAkap
>
> pAliththu n^aTTam payilaval lAnukkE pallANTu [kURuthumE. 9]
>
>
> *3.*
>
> *Tirumu**?**ai vii: song of Sundram?rtin**?**yan**?**r / Sundarar or
> Cuntarar or Sundaramurthi (8th C.C.E.)/Cuntaram?rti / **Sundhara Murthi
> Nayanar (Sundharar) Thevaram*
>
> *
> *
>
> (http://www.shaivam.org/siddhanta/thiru07r_1.htm)
> <http://www.shaivam.org/siddhanta/thiru07r_1.htm>
>
>
> maRRup paRRenak kinRi n^inRirup
>
> pAtha mEmanam pAviththEn
> peRRa lumpiRan^ thEni nippiRa
>
> vAtha thanmaivan^ theythinEn
> kaRRa varthozu thEththuny chIrkkaRai
>
> yUriR pANTik koTumuTi
> n^aRRa vAvunai n^Anma Rakkinuny
>
> chollum n^An^amachchi vAyavE.
>
>
>
> *4.*
>
> *Tirumu**?**ai vii: song of Sundram?rtin**?**yan**?**r*
>
> *
> *
>
> (
> <http://www.shaivam.org/siddhanta/thiru07r_1.htm>http://www.shaivam.org/siddhanta/thiru07r_1.htm)
> <http://www.shaivam.org/siddhanta/thiru07r_1.htm>
>
>
> piththApiRai chUTIperu mAnEaru LALA
> eththAnmaRa vAthEn^inaik kinREnmanath thunnai
> vaiththAypeNNaith thenpAlveNNey n^allUraruT TuRaiyuL
> aththAunak kALAyini allEnena lAmE
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> http://listinfo.indology.info
>






From jean-luc.chevillard at univ-paris-diderot.fr  Thu Jul  4 12:11:04 2013
From: jean-luc.chevillard at univ-paris-diderot.fr (Jean-Luc Chevillard)
Date: Thu, 04 Jul 13 17:41:04 +0530
Subject: [INDOLOGY] tamil recordings
In-Reply-To: <918375014CBFEF4EA357F3731EA11A8FC0019C@w07exdb1.oeaw.ads>
Message-ID: <51D56658.7080003@univ-paris-diderot.fr>

Dear Ulla,

here is a summary of the answers which I have sent you in various 
pieces. I realize there might be other people who need to have Tamil 
literature online, and that other suggestions might be made,
which is why I send it again publicly.


See my answers inside the message.

Best wishes

-- Jean-Luc Chevillard (Pondicherry)

On 04/07/2013 16:30, Remmer, Ulla wrote:
> Dear list members,
>
>
> thank you for your help last week with the Samaveda.
>
>
> I have a question from a totally different field today. We have Tamil
> recordings collected by Hilko Wiardo Schomerus dating from 1929 from
> Can anybody give me a transcription with diacritical marks of the
> following (classical) Tamil texts? I did not find them on GRETIL but on
> www.shaivam.org. <http://www.shaivam.org.> Or is there information on
> how to transfer them into a modern standard transcription with
> diacritical marks? I have only handwritten documentation that do not
> seem to be of contemporary standard.
>
>
>
> Best wishes,
>
> Ulla Remmer
>
> Phonogrammarchiv of the Austrian Academy of Sciences
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> *
> *
>
> *1.*
>
> *Periya-Pur**??**am (Tillaiv**?**?**antha**?**ar / **thillai vAz
> an^thaNar purANam**) 1; 2*
>
> *
> *
>
> (http://www.shaivam.org/siddhanta/thiru12r_02.htm)  <http://www.shaivam.org/siddhanta/thiru12r_02.htm>
>
>
>   AthiyAy n^aTuvumAki aLavu ilA aLavumAkich
>
>   chOthiyAy uNarvumAkith thOnRiya poruLumAkip
>
>   pEthiyA Ekam Akip peNNumAy ANum Akip
>
>   pOthiyA n^iRkum thillaip pothu n^aTam pORRi pORRi


This is the verse numbered 350 in some editions.

The Tamil text available on
"http://thevaaram.org/thirumurai_1/songview.php?thiru=12&Song_idField=12010&padhi=72&button=%E0%AE%9A%E0%AF%86%E0%AE%B2%E0%AF%8D%E0%AE%95" 
is:

??????? ????? ???? ?????? ?????? ?????
?????? ??????? ?????? ??????? ?????? ??????
?????? ?? ?????? ?????????? ??? ??????
?????? ???????? ???????? ???????? ?????? ??????.

THIS CAN BE TRANSLITERATED AS:

?tiy?y na?uvu m?ki a?avil? a?avum ?kic
c?tiy? yu?arvu m?kit t???iya poru?u m?kip
p?tiy? ?ka m?kip pe??um?y ??u m?kip
p?tiy? ni?kun tillaip potuna?am p???i p???i.

THE OTHER STANZA IS stanza 351

?????? ????? ???? ??????? ????? ????
???????? ??? ???? ???????? ????????? ??????
?????? ????? ?????? ????????????? ???????? ??????
????????? ???????? ????? ???????? ?????? ??????.


ka?pa?ai ka?anta c?ti karu?aiy? yuruva m?ki
a?putak k?la n??i yaruma?aic ciratti? m?l??
ci?para viy?ma m?kun tirucci??am palattu? ni??u
po?pu?a? na?a?cey ki??a p??ka?al p???i p???i.




>
>
>
>   kaRpanai kaTan^tha chOthi karuNaiyE uruvam Aki
>
>   aRputhak kOlam n^ITi aru maRaich chiRaththin mElAm
>
>   chiRpara viyOmam Akum thiruch chiRRampalaththuL n^inRuZ
>
>   poRpuTan n^aTam cheykinRa pUN^ kazal pORRi pORRi
>
> *2.*
>
> *Tiruvisaipp**?****(Tirumurai ix[?]);**Tiruppall**??**du 1; 9.*
>
> (http://www.shaivam.org/siddhanta/thiru9r.htm)  <http://www.shaivam.org/siddhanta/thiru9r.htm>
>
>
>
> mannuka thillai vaLarkan^am paththarkaL va^nychakar pOyakala
>
> ponninchey maNTapath thuLLE pukun^thu puvani yellAm viLaN^ka
>
> annan^aTai maTavAL umaikOn aTiyO mukkaruL purin^thu
>
> pinnaip piRavi yaRukka n^eRithan^tha piththaRkup pallANTu kURuthumE. 1
>
>
>
> pAlukku pAlakan vENTi azuthiTap pARkaTal In^thapirAn
>
> mAlukkuch chakkaram anRaruL cheythavan manniya thillaithannuL
>
> Avikkum an^thaNar vAzkinRa chiRRam palamE iTamAkap
>
> pAliththu n^aTTam payilaval lAnukkE pallANTu [kURuthumE. 9]


This is from the 9th Tirumu?ai:

here is the text from:

http://thevaaram.org/ta/index.php

or more precisely:

http://thevaaram.org/thirumurai_1/songview.php?thiru=9&Song_idField=9029&padhi=029+&button=%E0%AE%9A%E0%AF%86%E0%AE%B2%E0%AF%8D%E0%AE%95

*****************************

?????? ?????? ???????? ????????? ??????? ???????
???????????? ??????? ?????? ???????? ????????? ??????????
???? ????? ??????? ??????? ?????? ?????????????
???????? ????? ?????? ???????? ??????????? ????????? ????????.


ma??uka tillai va?arkanam pattarka? va?cakar p?yakalap
po??i?cey ma??apat tu??? pukuntu puva?iyel l?mvi?a?ka
a??a na?aima?a v??umai k??a?i y?muk karu?purintu
pi??aip pi?avi ya?ukka ne?itanta pitta?kup pall???u k??utum?.


?????????? ?????? ?????? ???????? ???????? ??????????
?????????? ??????? ???????? ???????? ?????? ?????????????
????????? ??????? ????????? ??????? ???? ???????
???????? ?????? ??????? ???????? ????????? ????????.


p?lukkup p?laka? v???i a?uti?ap p??ka?al ?ntapir??
m?lukkuc cakkaram a??aru? ceytava? ma??iya tillaita??u?
?likkum anta?ar v??ki??a ci??am palam? i?am?kap
p?littu na??am payilaval l??ukk? pall???u k??utum?.







>
>
> *3.*
>
> *Tirumu**?**ai vii: song of Sundram?rtin**?**yan**?**r / Sundarar or
> Cuntarar or Sundaramurthi (8th C.C.E.)/Cuntaram?rti / **Sundhara Murthi
> Nayanar (Sundharar) Thevaram*
>
> *
> *
>
> (http://www.shaivam.org/siddhanta/thiru07r_1.htm)
> <http://www.shaivam.org/siddhanta/thiru07r_1.htm>
>
>
> maRRup paRRenak kinRi n^inRirup
>
> pAtha mEmanam pAviththEn
> peRRa lumpiRan^ thEni nippiRa
>
> vAtha thanmaivan^ theythinEn
> kaRRa varthozu thEththuny chIrkkaRai
>
> yUriR pANTik koTumuTi
> n^aRRa vAvunai n^Anma Rakkinuny
>
> chollum n^An^amachchi vAyavE.



This is from the 7th Tirumu?ai. (Hymn 7-48, stanza 1)


ma??up pa??u _e?akku _i??i, ni? tirupp?tam? ma?am p?vitt??;
pe(?)?alum pi?ant??; _i?ip pi?av?ta ta?mai vantu _eyti???;
ka??avar to?utu _?ttum c?rk ka?aiy?ril p???ikko?umu?i
nal-tav?! _u?ai n?? ma?akki?um collum, n? namacciv?yav?.

(see on:
"http://www.ifpindia.org/ecrire/upload/digital_database/Site/Digital_Tevaram/INDEX.HTM")



>
>
>
> *4.*
>
> *Tirumu**?**ai vii: song of Sundram?rtin**?**yan**?**r*
>
> *
> *
>
> (
> <http://www.shaivam.org/siddhanta/thiru07r_1.htm>http://www.shaivam.org/siddhanta/thiru07r_1.htm)
> <http://www.shaivam.org/siddhanta/thiru07r_1.htm>
>
>
> piththApiRai chUTIperu mAnEaru LALA
> eththAnmaRa vAthEn^inaik kinREnmanath thunnai
> vaiththAypeNNaith thenpAlveNNey n^allUraruT TuRaiyuL
> aththAunak kALAyini allEnena lAmE
>


This is also from the 7th Tirumu?ai. (T?v?ram Hymn 7-1, stanza 1)

pitt?! pi?aic???! perum???! _aru????!
_ett?l ma?av?t? ni?aikki????? ma?attu _u??ai
vaitt?y; pe??ait te?p?l ve??eynall?r _aru?-tu?aiyu?
_att?!--- _u?akku _??_?y _i?i _all?? _e?al _?m??



>
>
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> http://listinfo.indology.info
>






From caf57 at cam.ac.uk  Thu Jul  4 14:55:27 2013
From: caf57 at cam.ac.uk (C.A. Formigatti)
Date: Thu, 04 Jul 13 15:55:27 +0100
Subject: [INDOLOGY] question for European Indologists
In-Reply-To: <mailman.801.1372934170.12137.indology_list.indology.info@list.indology.info>
Message-ID: <Prayer.1.3.5.1307041555270.20179@hermes-2.csi.cam.ac.uk>

Dear colleagues,

I might answer Christophe Vielle's question about Italian Sanskrit manuals 
and add my experience as a student back in Milan. In the nineties we 
studied Sanskrit grammar in one year (two semesters, from October to 
mid-February and from March to Mai), six hours (three two-hours sessions) 
per week. We used the second edition of Della Casa's Corso di Sanscrito -- 
apart from one student who still had the first edition from 1980, that was 
just a reproduction of Della Casa's typewritten draft, thus with no 
Devanagari at all, if I remember correctly. The chair for Sanskrit had been 
created for the need of students of Indo-european studies (Glottologia), 
and this is the main reason, I guess, why also in the second edition 
(typeset with a computer), Devanagari is not introduced until the end of 
the book -- that is to say, when the students are supposed to master enough 
grammar to be able to read the passages at the end of the book, printed in 
a beautiful and easily readable Devanagari. These are Hitopadesa and 
Pancatantra stories (I remember the first one we read, the story of the 
dull tortoise and the two geese), passages from the Mahabharata, one 
passage from the Satapathabrahmana, one story from the Kathasaritsagara 
etc.

Despite the title, I would not define it a "coursebook," but rather a 
reference grammar. The structure is identical with the one of grammars for 
Latin and Greek we used in high school (our ginnasio and liceo), and there 
is practically no explanation of the syntax (but for a short chapter of one 
and a half page). I think this is the major drawback of the book, together 
with the fact that it uses transliteration throughout, except for the 
reading passages at the end, as already said.

During my time as a student in Marburg, I started using as reference 
Stenzler's (I don't remember which edition) and Whitney's grammars, and I 
must confess I got the impression that Della Casa is more or less an 
adaptation of Stenzler's grammar. In fact, Stenzler is still the grammar I 
turn to for a quick reference, mainly because I know where to look up due 
to its structure almost identical to Della Casa's Corso di Sanscrito.

As to traditional grammar, in the second semester we had a general 
introduction to Panini (two hours per week), but I think this was the only 
semester in which it has been offered.

Camillo Formigatti
Research Associate
Cambridge University
Faculty of Asian and Middle Eastern Studies


On Jul 4 2013, indology-request at list.indology.info wrote:

>Send INDOLOGY mailing list submissions to
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>
>Today's Topics:
>
>   1. Re: question for European Indologists (Christophe Vielle)
>
>
>----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>Message: 1
>Date: Thu, 4 Jul 2013 12:35:52 +0200
>From: Christophe Vielle <christophe.vielle at uclouvain.be>
>To: soni at staff.uni-marburg.de
>Cc: indology at list.indology.info
>Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] question for European Indologists
>Message-ID: <B277B865-A9B8-4278-965A-A9B0D5222D4C at uclouvain.be>
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252"
>
> It is not the first Indian testimony I hear about the practical qualities 
> of Father Robert Antoine's Manual (which in its grammatical explanations 
> follows the indigenous, synchronic, tradition, and in the same time is 
> close to the Jesuit manuals of Latin or Greek which where in use in the 
> European high schools until the 70s). I like it (including all its little 
> defaults) and use it now for teaching in Louvain-la-Neuve since a few 
> years - see more on it from Indology list archives 22-7-2008 below.
>
> I am surprised to not hear on this list about Sanskrit teaching in 
> countries like France and Italy which both have a strong and long 
> tradition in the matter (the Coll?ge the France will celebrate in 2014 
> the bi-centenary of the creation of the first occidental Sanskrit chair, 
> started with Antoine-L?onard de Ch?zy). I would be interested to know 
> more about the teaching tradition in Italy and the use of manuals such 
> the ones by Pizzagalli (1931), Rampolla del Tindaro (1936) or Della Casa 
> (1980). In France, I suppose that Victor Henry's "?l?ments de sanscrit 
> classique" (1902), despite its 1963 reprint, is now forgotten. Abel 
> Bergaigne's "Manuel pour ?tudier la langue sanscrite" (1st ed. 1883), to 
> the reprint of which Louis Renou added an "avant-propos" (1966) 
> underlying the "good" difficulty of it, is still held in high esteem, but 
> apparently no longer in use (to note that Sylvain Brocquet in his recent 
> "grammaire ?l?mentaire et pratique", which is mainly a manual, proposes 
> [p. 450] to start it... after having completed his own one!). Gonda's 
> little grammar (which despite its French title "Manuel de grammaire" is 
> not really a manual) in its French translation by Rosane Rocher (cf. now 
> the 1997 ed. with Oguibenine's addenda), appears to be still widely used 
> as a handout (I personally prefer to propose in this role Renou's 
> "Grammaire ?l?mentaire", 1st ed. 1946). In French-speaking Belgium, 
> Bergaigne's "Manuel" was used by Louis de La Vall?e Poussin (see what he 
> says in the Pr?face to his former student Joseph Mansion's "Esquisse 
> d'une histoire de la langue sanscrite"). I know that Etienne Lamotte was 
> not fond of teaching elementary grammar: his students had to read and 
> learn by themselves the paradigms etc., and, before to go through the 
> texts, he limited his basic teaching to one lesson on the script, on 
> lesson on the sandhi, and one on the compounds: I have made a .pdf copy 
> of Lamotte's syllabus on the compounds available at 
> http://belgianindology.blogs.lalibre.be/list/s-b-i-o-library/composition-en-sanskrit.html 
> http://belgianindology.blogs.lalibre.be/list/s-b-i-o-library/1107017223.pdf
>
>Best wishes,
>
>Christophe Vielle
>
>Le 4 juil. 2013 ? 07:18, soni at staff.uni-marburg.de a ?crit :
>> The first time I really ?studied? Sanskrit (and then understanding the 
>> mantras which we had learnt by rote), was in the 70s, and through the 
>> Jesuit priest Antoine?s book on Sanskrit. in 2 volumes. Now it sounds 
>> strange that a traditional Sanskritist here in Banaras used this as a 
>> text book, this was for English speaking students.
>> 
>> By that time I had passed the stage of fearing the classical languages 
>> as with Latin when we said at school: Latin is a subject as dead as dead 
>> can be; it killed the ancient Romans and now it?s killing me! Sanskrit 
>> is now keeping me alive.
>> 
>> Jay
>> 
>> 
>De :  Stella Sandahl <ssandahl at sympatico.ca>
>
>Objet : Sanskrit Primers: R. Antoine's Sanskrit Manual
>
>Date : 22 juillet 2008
>? :    INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk
>
>Dear Colleagues,
>
> Good old Antoine! I think it is still relatively easy to get copies in 
> India. Unfortunately, the one I used to have (in two volumes) was printed 
> in India and was very difficult to read because of the so badly printed 
> (and too small) devanagari script, not to speak of the many printing 
> errors. But it was - and remains - a very thorough introduction to 
> Sanskrit along with Kale's grammar (which suffers from the same printing 
> defects).
>
> There seems to be an amazing array of published and unpublished Sanskrit 
> primers which I have been made aware of through kind communications from 
> many colleagues. Mille grazie! Personally I would have liked to try out 
> David Shulman's superb primer. Unfortunately it is in Hebrew, and the 
> English translation is not yet out. Maurer caught my attention because it 
> is amusing with chapters like "The mysterious gerund" and "The Romance of 
> compounds" apart from being very well organized.
>
> Coulson has too much transliteration, and since it is a 
> teach-yourself-book, there is a key to all the exercises which is 
> counter-productive in a class room. Killingley introduces the devanagari 
> script only in lesson 23. Here in Canada, where more than half (and 
> sometimes all) of the students are of Indian origin, a text book using so 
> much transliteration will be perceived as arrogant Western 
> neo-colonialism. And even the least gifted student usually learns the 
> script in two weeks - that's when I stop transliterating.
>
> There is no ideal text book out there - but there are many very good 
> ones. All of them have their strong and weak points. As the grammar 
> doesn't change from one year the only thing an instructor can change is 
> the text book.
>
>Best regards to all
>
>Stella Sandahl
>
>
>
>De : Christophe Vielle <Christophe.Vielle at uclouvain.be>
>
>Objet : Sanskrit Primers: R. Antoine's Sanskrit Manual
>
>Date : 22 juillet 2008
>? :    INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk
>
> 
>
>Dear Colleagues,
>
> I dare to add another Sanskrit primer to the other excellent ones 
> (Coulson, Deshpande, etc.) which could have been quoted in the 
> discussion.
>
> Some years ago, I heard through an Indian friend (a Syriac scholar from 
> Kottayam) about the high value of the Sanskrit Manual of Father R. 
> Antoine s.j., a Belgian scholar who taught in St. Xavier's College, 
> Calcutta (cf. 
> http://www.goethals.in/collections/felixrajarticles/robert.htm : Robert 
> Antoine: The Indologist by J Felix Raj, SJ).
>
> More recently, Prof. Winand Callewaert, from the University of Leuven, 
> told me that he was also using Antoine's manual for his 1st year Sanskrit 
> students.
>
>I finally got an exemplar of this manual through an antiquarian bookseller.
>
> The "Part I" is in two volumes entitled "A Sanskrit Manual for High 
> schools" and "Book of Exercises for the Sanskrit Manual" (1953, Catholic 
> Press, Ranchi; a think that there was in the seventies a reprint in one 
> vol.). The 26 lessons, supposed to cover "the matter of the first three 
> years (standards IV to VI or classes VI to VIII)" of High school, appears 
> to fit perfectly with a first year Sanskrit at the university level.
>
> The lessons are very clear, and the vocabulary to learn, Sanskrit 
> sentences to translate and composition exercises well chosen.
>
> The "Part II" "meant as an immediate preparation for the School Final 
> Examination", joins in one vol. 27 lessons and the exercices, in which 
> the Sanskrit sentences are taken from Kaavya-maalaa or Kaalidaasa and 
> classical literature (+ at the end a list of "verbal roots with their 
> principal parts", "Sanskrit-English Glossary" and "English-Sanskrit 
> Glossary"). So, at the end of High school, it was at that time possible 
> to acquire a Sanskrit level as good as here the level of Greek and Latin 
> of my forefathers... (which is now only possible to acquire at the 
> University).
>
> Despite a few misprints to be corrected, the Manual deserves to be 
> reprinted.
>
>I shall try with 1st year students the vol. I for the coming academic year.
>
>With best wishes,
>
>Christophe Vielle
>
> [Addendum 2013:] A .pdf version of the 1st ed. Antoine, R. 1953-1954, A 
> Sanskrit Manual for High Schools, 2 vols, Calcutta : St. Xavier?s 
> College. is available at : http://www.ragalalit.net/priv/ (id = Lalit, pw 
> = komalRe) A reprint of vol. 1 is available at: 
> http://www.archive.org/details/sanskritmanualfo00antouoft
> 
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>
>Subject: Digest Footer
>
>_______________________________________________
>INDOLOGY mailing list
>INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>http://list.indology.info/mailman/listinfo/indology_list.indology.info
>
>
>------------------------------
>
>End of INDOLOGY Digest, Vol 6, Issue 6
>**************************************
>





From slindqui at mail.smu.edu  Thu Jul  4 15:08:19 2013
From: slindqui at mail.smu.edu (Lindquist, Steven)
Date: Thu, 04 Jul 13 15:08:19 +0000
Subject: [INDOLOGY] SMU/SARII Conference on Christianity in South India
Message-ID: <CDFAFA0E.48D1%slindqui@smu.edu>

Dear all,

Please pardon the x-posting.  This is a followup on my previous announcement.

Asian Studies Program (SMU) and South Asian Research and Information Institute present a day-long conference:

Conversion, Caste, and Coexistence: Christianity in South India
Sept. 28, 9am-5pm
McCord Auditorium, Southern Methodist University

Presenters:
Dr. Francis X. Clooney, S.J., Harvard University
Dr. Corinne Dempsey, Nazareth College
Dr. Robert E. Frykenberg, University of Wisconsin - Madison
Dr. Sanal Mohan, Mahatma Gandhi University
Dr. Rupa Viswanath, University of G?ttingen

The abstracts and bios of presenters is now available at:
http://www.sarii.org/2013abstractsandbios.html


My best,

Steven


STEVEN LINDQUIST, PH.D.
ASSOCIATE PROFESSOR, RELIGIOUS STUDIES
DIRECTOR, ASIAN STUDIES
____________________
Southern Methodist University
PO Box 750202 | Dallas | TX | 75275
http://faculty.smu.edu/slindqui






From ghezziem at tin.it  Thu Jul  4 15:36:09 2013
From: ghezziem at tin.it (Daniela Rossella)
Date: Thu, 04 Jul 13 17:36:09 +0200
Subject: [INDOLOGY] question for European Indologists
Message-ID: <2F6735D1-10B1-49E2-A0ED-E987A6AA3F4B@tin.it>

Dear all, I can add Grammatica sanscrita by Giovanni Flechia (1856),  
Elementi di Grammatica sanscrita by Oreste Nazari (1892) and  
Grammatica dell'antico indiano by Vittore Pisani (1930). When I was a  
student - alas! many years ago... - my beloved teacher, Carlo Della  
Casa, gave me also Grammatica critica linguae sanscritae by Franz  
Bopp, because Latin was considered, in those times, a sort of  
universal (or, better, pan-European) language. Nowadays, in Italy  
student learn Sanskrit through the grammars written by Della Casa or  
Saverio Sani (1991), but quite recently also Roberto Perinu published  
his Tabulae Sancriticae (in 7 small volumes printable on demand, in  
Italian despite the title).
All the best, Daniela Rossella





From torzsokjudit at hotmail.com  Thu Jul  4 21:08:16 2013
From: torzsokjudit at hotmail.com (Judit Torzsok)
Date: Thu, 04 Jul 13 21:08:16 +0000
Subject: [INDOLOGY] question for European Indologists
In-Reply-To: <B277B865-A9B8-4278-965A-A9B0D5222D4C@uclouvain.be>
Message-ID: <BAY155-W40B373435B3B322C06F10CD7C0@phx.gbl>


















Since the French indological tradition has
been mentioned: I cannot speak for others, but in Lille, we still use the
French version of Gonda (this seems to be a local tradition, which I have not
broken), to which I add exercises from my French translation of George Hart's book
and my own exercises for the Devanaagarii + Hitopade"sa stories from
Lanman's reader, with vocabulary in French. An interesting book we also use is R. Garnier's Textes ?piques sanskrits, which would nevertheless need a revised/corrected edition. The problem (or my problem) is that one cannot/is not supposed
to use English medium books in France, let alone German. I'd also like to
remark that there is no Sanskrit teaching as such at the Coll?ge de France and
the only place that has a proper undergraduate course in Indology in France is
Paris III / Sorbonne nouvelle.

 

For those who are interested in the history of
teaching Sanskrit: in Hungary, Richard Fick's book (in German) was used for about
half a century (n.b.: Gothic script edition---as those who had the privilege to
use it remember...) After years of experimenting with various course books for
beginners, I now find that Fick's was not so bad, with all the sample sentences
taken from classical sources. And I know someone who still uses it.

 

Judit T?rzs?k


From: christophe.vielle at uclouvain.be
Date: Thu, 4 Jul 2013 12:35:52 +0200
To: soni at staff.uni-marburg.de
CC: indology at list.indology.info
Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] question for European Indologists

It is not the first Indian testimony I hear about the practical qualities of Father Robert Antoine's Manual (which in its grammatical explanations follows the indigenous, synchronic, tradition, and in the same time is close to the Jesuit manuals of Latin or Greek which where in use in the European high schools until the 70s). I like it (including all its little defaults) and use it now for teaching in Louvain-la-Neuve since a few years - see more on it from Indology list archives 22-7-2008 below.
I am surprised to not hear on this list about Sanskrit teaching in countries like France and Italy which both have a strong and long tradition in the matter (the Coll?ge the France will celebrate in 2014 the bi-centenary of the creation of the first occidental Sanskrit chair, started with Antoine-L?onard de Ch?zy). I would be interested to know more about the teaching tradition in Italy and the use of manuals such the ones by Pizzagalli (1931), Rampolla del Tindaro (1936) or Della Casa (1980).In France, I suppose that Victor Henry's "?l?ments de sanscrit classique" (1902), despite its 1963 reprint, is now forgotten. Abel Bergaigne's "Manuel pour ?tudier la langue sanscrite" (1st ed. 1883),  to the reprint of which Louis Renou added an "avant-propos" (1966) underlying the "good" difficulty of it, is still held in high esteem, but apparently no longer in use (to note that Sylvain Brocquet in his recent "grammaire ?l?mentaire et pratique", which is mainly a manual, proposes [p. 450] to start it... after having completed his own one!). Gonda's little grammar (which despite its French title "Manuel de grammaire" is not really a manual) in its French translation by Rosane Rocher (cf. now the 1997 ed. with Oguibenine's addenda), appears to be still widely used as a handout (I personally prefer to propose in this role Renou's "Grammaire ?l?mentaire", 1st ed. 1946).In French-speaking Belgium, Bergaigne's "Manuel" was used by Louis de La Vall?e Poussin (see what he says in the Pr?face to his former student Joseph Mansion's "Esquisse d'une histoire de la langue sanscrite"). I know that Etienne Lamotte was not fond of teaching elementary grammar: his students had to read and learn by themselves the paradigms etc., and, before to go through the texts, he limited his basic teaching to one lesson on the script, on lesson on the sandhi, and one on the compounds: I have made a .pdf copy of Lamotte's syllabus on the compounds available athttp://belgianindology.blogs.lalibre.be/list/s-b-i-o-library/composition-en-sanskrit.htmlhttp://belgianindology.blogs.lalibre.be/list/s-b-i-o-library/1107017223.pdf
Best wishes,
Christophe Vielle
Le 4 juil. 2013 ? 07:18, soni at staff.uni-marburg.de a ?crit :The first time I really ?studied? Sanskrit (and then understanding the mantras which we had learnt by rote), was in the 70s, and through the Jesuit priest Antoine?s book on Sanskrit. in 2 volumes. Now it sounds strange that a traditional Sanskritist here in Banaras used this as a text book, this was for English speaking students.

By that time I had passed the stage of fearing the classical languages as with Latin when we said at school: Latin is a subject as dead as dead can be; it killed the ancient Romans and now it?s killing me!
Sanskrit is now keeping me alive.

Jay

















De :  Stella Sandahl
<ssandahl at sympatico.ca>Objet : Sanskrit Primers: R. Antoine's Sanskrit ManualDate : 22 juillet 2008? :    INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.ukDear
Colleagues,Good
old Antoine! I think it is still relatively easy to get copies in India.
Unfortunately, the one I used to have (in two volumes) was printed in India and
was very difficult to read because of the so badly printed (and too small)
devanagari script, not to speak of the many printing errors. But it was - and
remains - a very thorough introduction to Sanskrit along with Kale's grammar
(which suffers from the same printing defects).There
seems to be an amazing array of published and unpublished Sanskrit primers
which I have been made aware of through kind communications from many
colleagues. Mille grazie! Personally I would have liked to try out David
Shulman's superb primer.  Unfortunately it is in Hebrew, and the English
translation is not yet out.  Maurer  caught my attention because it
is amusing with chapters like "The mysterious gerund" and "The
Romance of compounds" apart from being very well organized.Coulson
has too much transliteration, and since it is a teach-yourself-book, there is a
key to all the exercises which is counter-productive in a class room.
Killingley introduces the devanagari script only in lesson 23. Here in Canada,
where more than half (and sometimes all) of the students are of Indian origin,
a text book using so much transliteration will be perceived as arrogant Western
neo-colonialism. And even the least gifted student usually learns the script in
two weeks - that's when I stop transliterating. There
is no ideal text book out there - but there are many very good ones. All of
them have their strong and weak points. As the grammar doesn't change from one
year the only thing an instructor can change is the text book.Best
regards to allStella
Sandahl
De : Christophe Vielle <Christophe.Vielle at uclouvain.be>Objet : Sanskrit Primers:
R. Antoine's Sanskrit ManualDate :  22 juillet 2008? :    INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Dear
Colleagues,I
dare to add another Sanskrit primer to the other excellent ones (Coulson,
Deshpande, etc.) which could have been quoted in the discussion.Some
years ago, I heard through an Indian friend (a Syriac scholar from Kottayam)
about the high value of the Sanskrit Manual of Father R. Antoine s.j., a
Belgian scholar who taught in St. Xavier's College, Calcutta (cf. http://www.goethals.in/collections/felixrajarticles/robert.htm
: Robert Antoine: The Indologist by J Felix Raj, SJ).More
recently, Prof. Winand Callewaert, from the University of Leuven, told me that
he was also using Antoine's manual for his 1st year Sanskrit students.I
finally got an exemplar of this manual through an antiquarian bookseller.The
"Part I" is in two volumes entitled "A Sanskrit Manual for High
schools" and "Book of Exercises for the Sanskrit Manual" (1953,
Catholic Press, Ranchi; a think that there was in the seventies a reprint in
one vol.). The 26 lessons, supposed to cover "the matter of the first
three years (standards IV to VI or classes VI to VIII)" of High school,
appears to fit perfectly with a first year Sanskrit at the university level.The
lessons are very clear, and the vocabulary to learn, Sanskrit sentences to
translate and composition exercises well chosen.The
"Part II" "meant as an immediate preparation for the School
Final Examination", joins in one vol. 27 lessons and the exercices, in
which the Sanskrit sentences are taken from Kaavya-maalaa or Kaalidaasa and
classical literature (+ at the end a list of "verbal roots with their
principal parts", "Sanskrit-English Glossary" and
"English-Sanskrit Glossary"). So, at the end of High school, it was
at that time possible to acquire a Sanskrit level as good as here the level of
Greek and Latin of my forefathers... (which is now only possible to acquire at
the University).Despite
a few misprints to be corrected, the Manual deserves to be reprinted.I
shall try with 1st year students the vol. I for the coming academic year.With
best wishes,Christophe
Vielle

[Addendum 2013:] A .pdf version of the 1st ed.














Antoine,
R. 1953-1954, A Sanskrit Manual for High
Schools, 2 vols, Calcutta : St. Xavier?s College.is available at :   http://www.ragalalit.net/priv/ (id = Lalit, pw = komalRe)A reprint of vol. 1 is available at: http://www.archive.org/details/sanskritmanualfo00antouoft 


_______________________________________________
INDOLOGY mailing list
INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
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From vglyssenko at yandex.ru  Thu Jul  4 21:22:06 2013
From: vglyssenko at yandex.ru (Viktoria Lysenko)
Date: Fri, 05 Jul 13 01:22:06 +0400
Subject: [INDOLOGY] SOS - Russian Academy of Sciences is in danger!
Message-ID: <353431372972926@web1h.yandex.ru>



Moscow, 4, July, 2013
Dear colleagues, 
The Russian Government is currently trying to push through the Parliament (Douma), well known for its docility, a reform draft concerning the Russian Academy of Sciences, which involves the transfer of all assets of the Academy along with its institutions to the hands of a special group of so-called ?efficient managers?. No serious and elaborated program of reform is proposed, except for some drastic  measures with unpredictable consequences. Among them, the abolition of different regional branches of the present Academy, as well as of various other institutions (the Academy of Education etc.), and the creation of a new Russian Academy, which will be a sort of club for a few outstanding scientists endowed with annuities for life. What will happen to the numerous academic institutions and their fellows is not clearly articulated in the project. 
The main purpose of this "reform" is  evident from its priorities: to deprive  the Russian Academy of Sciences of its independent status and to seize its property, which will allow  bureaucrats to dictate to scientists what they should do. The project appeared all of a sudden on June 28th, , at the onset of summer holidays, and came as  a surprise even for the newly elected president of the Academy of Sciences, not to mention the other fellow members. It was prepared in secret, away from the scientific community, under flagrant violation of ethical standards and mandatory procedure, involving discussion and peer review (Government Decree N 159 of 22 February 2012 "On Approval of the Rules of the public discussion of draft federal constitutional laws and federal laws"). The first reading took place on July the 4th, the second one, contrary to the procedure according to which for the matters of such importance a period of 60 days is provided for introducing amendments, will take place on Friday 5th July. So, only 2 days for ?discussion? no time for amendments. And this raw and adventurist project will pass the main steps of ratification! Could one imagine something like this in any democratic country!
 While declaring to focus on improving the efficiency of scientific research, the project does not contain any constructive ideas that would promote science. Adoption of the law will strike a blow to the country's science, the backbone of which the Academy has been and continues to be. Many scholars are scandalized by a humiliating attempt to persuade members of the Academy to support the "reform" by promises of status and cash handouts.
The 300-year history of the Russian Academy of Sciences - is not an empty phrase. It is the only social institution that for centuries embodied the unity of Russian history, culture and national identity. The history of the Russian Academy of Sciences is a unique example of a centuries-old succession ? it should not be interrupted by a subjective hasty decision.
Our government's attempt to create an efficient management of the Defence Ministry?s property culminated in corruption and collapse. Projects to create an oasis of 21st century  science in "Skolkovo"  brought  nothing but huge costs. All this inspires serious concerns about the future of science in Russia. We do believe that our colleagues all over the world must know what is going on in ?democratic? Russia and have a right to express their opinion thereon.
Prof. Dr. Sergei Nikolsky
Deputy Director of the Institute of Philosophy, Russian Academy of Sciences, Moscow, Russia


 


-- 
Victoria Lysenko, dr.hab.philos.
Head, Department for Oriental philosophy studies
Institute of Philosophy, Russian Academy of Sciences
Moscow, Volkhonka, 14
Professor, Russian State University for Humanities
Russia



From jean-luc.chevillard at univ-paris-diderot.fr  Thu Jul  4 23:23:30 2013
From: jean-luc.chevillard at univ-paris-diderot.fr (Jean-Luc Chevillard)
Date: Fri, 05 Jul 13 04:53:30 +0530
Subject: [INDOLOGY] tamil recordings
In-Reply-To: <51D56658.7080003@univ-paris-diderot.fr>
Message-ID: <51D603F2.4000000@univ-paris-diderot.fr>

Dear Ulla,

I could have added that another place where many Classical Tamil texts 
are available online (although the interface could be improved) is:

"http://www.tamilvu.org/library/libindex."

 From that place, one can (for instance) reach the following page, which 
has the texts of all the twelve Tirumu?ai-s.

"http://www.tamilvu.org/library/l4100/html/l4100ind.htm"

This is of course all in Tamil script,
but can easily be converted to transliteration
(or to any Indian script)
by using Vinodh Rajan's "Akshara Tools".

See:
"http://www.virtualvinodh.com/aksharamukha"

-- Jean-Luc Chevillard (Pondicherry / ?????????? [putucc?ri])

P.S. will you make the Schomerus recordings available online?


On 04/07/2013 17:41, Jean-Luc Chevillard wrote:
> Dear Ulla,
>
> here is a summary of the answers which I have sent you in various
> pieces. I realize there might be other people who need to have Tamil
> literature online, and that other suggestions might be made,
> which is why I send it again publicly.
>
>
> See my answers inside the message.
>
> Best wishes
>
> -- Jean-Luc Chevillard (Pondicherry)
>
> On 04/07/2013 16:30, Remmer, Ulla wrote:
>> Dear list members,
>>
>>
>> thank you for your help last week with the Samaveda.
>>
>>
>> I have a question from a totally different field today. We have Tamil
>> recordings collected by Hilko Wiardo Schomerus dating from 1929 from
>> Can anybody give me a transcription with diacritical marks of the
>> following (classical) Tamil texts? I did not find them on GRETIL but on
>> www.shaivam.org. <http://www.shaivam.org.> Or is there information on
>> how to transfer them into a modern standard transcription with
>> diacritical marks? I have only handwritten documentation that do not
>> seem to be of contemporary standard.
>>
>>
>>
>> Best wishes,
>>
>> Ulla Remmer
>>
>> Phonogrammarchiv of the Austrian Academy of Sciences
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> *
>> *
>>
>> *1.*
>>
>> *Periya-Pur**??**am (Tillaiv**?**?**antha**?**ar / **thillai vAz
>> an^thaNar purANam**) 1; 2*
>>
>> *
>> *
>>
>> (http://www.shaivam.org/siddhanta/thiru12r_02.htm)
>> <http://www.shaivam.org/siddhanta/thiru12r_02.htm>
>>
>>
>>   AthiyAy n^aTuvumAki aLavu ilA aLavumAkich
>>
>>   chOthiyAy uNarvumAkith thOnRiya poruLumAkip
>>
>>   pEthiyA Ekam Akip peNNumAy ANum Akip
>>
>>   pOthiyA n^iRkum thillaip pothu n^aTam pORRi pORRi
>
>
> This is the verse numbered 350 in some editions.
>
> The Tamil text available on
> "http://thevaaram.org/thirumurai_1/songview.php?thiru=12&Song_idField=12010&padhi=72&button=%E0%AE%9A%E0%AF%86%E0%AE%B2%E0%AF%8D%E0%AE%95"
> is:
>
> ??????? ????? ???? ?????? ?????? ?????
> ?????? ??????? ?????? ??????? ?????? ??????
> ?????? ?? ?????? ?????????? ??? ??????
> ?????? ???????? ???????? ???????? ?????? ??????.
>
> THIS CAN BE TRANSLITERATED AS:
>
> ?tiy?y na?uvu m?ki a?avil? a?avum ?kic
> c?tiy? yu?arvu m?kit t???iya poru?u m?kip
> p?tiy? ?ka m?kip pe??um?y ??u m?kip
> p?tiy? ni?kun tillaip potuna?am p???i p???i.
>
> THE OTHER STANZA IS stanza 351
>
> ?????? ????? ???? ??????? ????? ????
> ???????? ??? ???? ???????? ????????? ??????
> ?????? ????? ?????? ????????????? ???????? ??????
> ????????? ???????? ????? ???????? ?????? ??????.
>
>
> ka?pa?ai ka?anta c?ti karu?aiy? yuruva m?ki
> a?putak k?la n??i yaruma?aic ciratti? m?l??
> ci?para viy?ma m?kun tirucci??am palattu? ni??u
> po?pu?a? na?a?cey ki??a p??ka?al p???i p???i.
>
>
>
>
>>
>>
>>
>>   kaRpanai kaTan^tha chOthi karuNaiyE uruvam Aki
>>
>>   aRputhak kOlam n^ITi aru maRaich chiRaththin mElAm
>>
>>   chiRpara viyOmam Akum thiruch chiRRampalaththuL n^inRuZ
>>
>>   poRpuTan n^aTam cheykinRa pUN^ kazal pORRi pORRi
>>
>> *2.*
>>
>> *Tiruvisaipp**?****(Tirumurai ix[?]);**Tiruppall**??**du 1; 9.*
>>
>> (http://www.shaivam.org/siddhanta/thiru9r.htm)
>> <http://www.shaivam.org/siddhanta/thiru9r.htm>
>>
>>
>>
>> mannuka thillai vaLarkan^am paththarkaL va^nychakar pOyakala
>>
>> ponninchey maNTapath thuLLE pukun^thu puvani yellAm viLaN^ka
>>
>> annan^aTai maTavAL umaikOn aTiyO mukkaruL purin^thu
>>
>> pinnaip piRavi yaRukka n^eRithan^tha piththaRkup pallANTu kURuthumE. 1
>>
>>
>>
>> pAlukku pAlakan vENTi azuthiTap pARkaTal In^thapirAn
>>
>> mAlukkuch chakkaram anRaruL cheythavan manniya thillaithannuL
>>
>> Avikkum an^thaNar vAzkinRa chiRRam palamE iTamAkap
>>
>> pAliththu n^aTTam payilaval lAnukkE pallANTu [kURuthumE. 9]
>
>
> This is from the 9th Tirumu?ai:
>
> here is the text from:
>
> http://thevaaram.org/ta/index.php
>
> or more precisely:
>
> http://thevaaram.org/thirumurai_1/songview.php?thiru=9&Song_idField=9029&padhi=029+&button=%E0%AE%9A%E0%AF%86%E0%AE%B2%E0%AF%8D%E0%AE%95
>
>
> *****************************
>
> ?????? ?????? ???????? ????????? ??????? ???????
> ???????????? ??????? ?????? ???????? ????????? ??????????
> ???? ????? ??????? ??????? ?????? ?????????????
> ???????? ????? ?????? ???????? ??????????? ????????? ????????.
>
>
> ma??uka tillai va?arkanam pattarka? va?cakar p?yakalap
> po??i?cey ma??apat tu??? pukuntu puva?iyel l?mvi?a?ka
> a??a na?aima?a v??umai k??a?i y?muk karu?purintu
> pi??aip pi?avi ya?ukka ne?itanta pitta?kup pall???u k??utum?.
>
>
> ?????????? ?????? ?????? ???????? ???????? ??????????
> ?????????? ??????? ???????? ???????? ?????? ?????????????
> ????????? ??????? ????????? ??????? ???? ???????
> ???????? ?????? ??????? ???????? ????????? ????????.
>
>
> p?lukkup p?laka? v???i a?uti?ap p??ka?al ?ntapir??
> m?lukkuc cakkaram a??aru? ceytava? ma??iya tillaita??u?
> ?likkum anta?ar v??ki??a ci??am palam? i?am?kap
> p?littu na??am payilaval l??ukk? pall???u k??utum?.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>>
>>
>> *3.*
>>
>> *Tirumu**?**ai vii: song of Sundram?rtin**?**yan**?**r / Sundarar or
>> Cuntarar or Sundaramurthi (8th C.C.E.)/Cuntaram?rti / **Sundhara Murthi
>> Nayanar (Sundharar) Thevaram*
>>
>> *
>> *
>>
>> (http://www.shaivam.org/siddhanta/thiru07r_1.htm)
>> <http://www.shaivam.org/siddhanta/thiru07r_1.htm>
>>
>>
>> maRRup paRRenak kinRi n^inRirup
>>
>> pAtha mEmanam pAviththEn
>> peRRa lumpiRan^ thEni nippiRa
>>
>> vAtha thanmaivan^ theythinEn
>> kaRRa varthozu thEththuny chIrkkaRai
>>
>> yUriR pANTik koTumuTi
>> n^aRRa vAvunai n^Anma Rakkinuny
>>
>> chollum n^An^amachchi vAyavE.
>
>
>
> This is from the 7th Tirumu?ai. (Hymn 7-48, stanza 1)
>
>
> ma??up pa??u _e?akku _i??i, ni? tirupp?tam? ma?am p?vitt??;
> pe(?)?alum pi?ant??; _i?ip pi?av?ta ta?mai vantu _eyti???;
> ka??avar to?utu _?ttum c?rk ka?aiy?ril p???ikko?umu?i
> nal-tav?! _u?ai n?? ma?akki?um collum, n? namacciv?yav?.
>
> (see on:
> "http://www.ifpindia.org/ecrire/upload/digital_database/Site/Digital_Tevaram/INDEX.HTM")
>
>
>
>
>>
>>
>>
>> *4.*
>>
>> *Tirumu**?**ai vii: song of Sundram?rtin**?**yan**?**r*
>>
>> *
>> *
>>
>> (
>> <http://www.shaivam.org/siddhanta/thiru07r_1.htm>http://www.shaivam.org/siddhanta/thiru07r_1.htm)
>>
>> <http://www.shaivam.org/siddhanta/thiru07r_1.htm>
>>
>>
>> piththApiRai chUTIperu mAnEaru LALA
>> eththAnmaRa vAthEn^inaik kinREnmanath thunnai
>> vaiththAypeNNaith thenpAlveNNey n^allUraruT TuRaiyuL
>> aththAunak kALAyini allEnena lAmE
>>
>
>
> This is also from the 7th Tirumu?ai. (T?v?ram Hymn 7-1, stanza 1)
>
> pitt?! pi?aic???! perum???! _aru????!
> _ett?l ma?av?t? ni?aikki????? ma?attu _u??ai
> vaitt?y; pe??ait te?p?l ve??eynall?r _aru?-tu?aiyu?
> _att?!--- _u?akku _??_?y _i?i _all?? _e?al _?m??
>
>
>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>> http://listinfo.indology.info
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> http://listinfo.indology.info






From ugg-5 at spro.net  Fri Jul  5 01:07:50 2013
From: ugg-5 at spro.net (Jo)
Date: Thu, 04 Jul 13 19:07:50 -0600
Subject: [INDOLOGY] FW:  SOS - Russian Academy of Sciences is in danger!
In-Reply-To: <353431372972926@web1h.yandex.ru>
Message-ID: <002201ce791c$12ae2190$380a64b0$@spro.net>


Dear Victoria Lysenko,

How shocking.
 
I don't have time to go to the sources, so will resort to Wikipedia (on Bureaucracy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bureaucracy ) for short reminders of past thinking on this process of government bureaucracy, in this instance taking over a professional organization. These excerpts are all selected from the above-noted Wikipedia article, leaving out the  citations:

Karl Marx theorized about the role and function of bureaucracy in his Critique of Hegel's Philosophy of Right, published in 1843. In his Philosophy of Right, Hegel had supported the role of specialized officials in the role of public administration, although he never used the term "bureaucracy" himself. Marx by contrast was opposed to the bureaucracy. He saw the development of bureaucracy in government as a natural counterpart to the development of the corporation in private society. Marx posited that while the corporation and government bureaucracy existed in seeming opposition, in actuality they mutually relied on one another to exist. He wrote that "The Corporation is civil society's attempt to become state; but the bureaucracy is the state which has really made itself into civil society." [How prescient this sounds in terms of today's mega-corporations and the US Supreme Court's ruling that money is speech and corporations are persons. JK]

Writing in the late 1860s, political scientist John Stuart Mill theorized that successful monarchies were essentially bureaucracies, and found evidence of their existence in Imperial China, the Russian Empire, and the regimes of Europe. Mill referred to bureaucracy as a distinct form of government, separate from representative democracy. He believed bureaucracies had certain advantages, most importantly the accumulation of experience in those who actually conduct the affairs. [But as we have seen in the 20th c., bureaucracies have no institutional memory. JK] Nevertheless, he thought bureaucracy as a form of governance compared poorly to representative government, as it relied on appointment rather than direct election. Mill wrote that ultimately the bureaucracy stifles the mind, and that "A bureaucracy always tends to become a pedantocracy."[29]

"The German sociologist Max Weber described many idealized types of public administration and government in his 1922 work Economy and Society. His critical study of the bureaucratisation of society became one of the most enduring parts of his work. It was Weber who began the studies of bureaucracy and whose works led to the popularization of this term.
".......While recognizing bureaucracy as the most efficient form of organization, and even indispensable for the modern state, Weber also saw it as a threat to individual freedoms, and the ongoing bureaucratization as leading to a "polar night of icy darkness", in which increasing rationalization of human life traps individuals in a soulless "iron cage" of bureaucratic, rule-based, rational control.

"In his 1944 work Bureaucracy, the Austrian economist Ludwig von Mises was highly critical of all bureaucratic systems. He believed that bureaucracy should be the target of universal opprobrium, and noticed that in the political sphere it had few defenders, even among progressives. [Mises must have been writing in an ivory tower. JK] Mises saw bureaucratic processes at work in both the private and public spheres; however he believed that bureaucratization in the private sphere could only occur as a consequence of government interference... 

"The American sociologist Robert K. Merton expanded on Weber's theories of bureaucracy in his work Social Theory and Social Structure, published in 1957. While Merton agreed with certain aspects of Weber's analysis, he also considered the dysfunctional aspects of bureaucracy, which he attributed to a "trained incapacity" resulting from "overconformity." He saw bureaucrats as more likely to defend their own entrenched interests than to act to benefit the organization as a whole. 

None of these critics seem to have understood how easily bureaucracy could be subverted by corruption, as we have seen in the 20th c history of 'western' governments. Whatever the social criticisms of Russia's old Academy of Sciences might be, it is devastating to see it brusquely, brutally taken over by government.

Joanna Kirkpatrick   

-----Original Message-----
From: INDOLOGY [mailto:indology-bounces at list.indology.info] On Behalf Of Viktoria Lysenko
Sent: Thursday, July 04, 2013 3:22 PM
To: indology at list.indology.info
Subject: [INDOLOGY] SOS - Russian Academy of Sciences is in danger!



Moscow, 4, July, 2013
Dear colleagues,
The Russian Government is currently trying to push through the Parliament (Douma), well known for its docility, a reform draft concerning the Russian Academy of Sciences, which involves the transfer of all assets of the Academy along with its institutions to the hands of a special group of so-called ?efficient managers?. No serious and elaborated program of reform is proposed, except for some drastic  measures with unpredictable consequences. Among them, the abolition of different regional branches of the present Academy, as well as of various other institutions (the Academy of Education etc.), and the creation of a new Russian Academy, which will be a sort of club for a few outstanding scientists endowed with annuities for life. What will happen to the numerous academic institutions and their fellows is not clearly articulated in the project. 
The main purpose of this "reform" is  evident from its priorities: to deprive  the Russian Academy of Sciences of its independent status and to seize its property, which will allow  bureaucrats to dictate to scientists what they should do. The project appeared all of a sudden on June 28th, , at the onset of summer holidays, and came as  a surprise even for the newly elected president of the Academy of Sciences, not to mention the other fellow members. It was prepared in secret, away from the scientific community, under flagrant violation of ethical standards and mandatory procedure, involving discussion and peer review (Government Decree N 159 of 22 February 2012 "On Approval of the Rules of the public discussion of draft federal constitutional laws and federal laws"). The first reading took place on July the 4th, the second one, contrary to the procedure according to which for the matters of such importance a period of 60 days is provided for introducing amendments, will take place on Friday 5th July. So, only 2 days for ?discussion? no time for amendments. And this raw and adventurist project will pass the main steps of ratification! Could one imagine something like this in any democratic country!
 While declaring to focus on improving the efficiency of scientific research, the project does not contain any constructive ideas that would promote science. Adoption of the law will strike a blow to the country's science, the backbone of which the Academy has been and continues to be. Many scholars are scandalized by a humiliating attempt to persuade members of the Academy to support the "reform" by promises of status and cash handouts.
The 300-year history of the Russian Academy of Sciences - is not an empty phrase. It is the only social institution that for centuries embodied the unity of Russian history, culture and national identity. The history of the Russian Academy of Sciences is a unique example of a centuries-old succession ? it should not be interrupted by a subjective hasty decision.
Our government's attempt to create an efficient management of the Defence Ministry?s property culminated in corruption and collapse. Projects to create an oasis of 21st century  science in "Skolkovo"  brought  nothing but huge costs. All this inspires serious concerns about the future of science in Russia. We do believe that our colleagues all over the world must know what is going on in ?democratic? Russia and have a right to express their opinion thereon.
Prof. Dr. Sergei Nikolsky
Deputy Director of the Institute of Philosophy, Russian Academy of Sciences, Moscow, Russia


 


-- 
Victoria Lysenko, dr.hab.philos.
Head, Department for Oriental philosophy studies
Institute of Philosophy, Russian Academy of Sciences
Moscow, Volkhonka, 14
Professor, Russian State University for Humanities
Russia
_______________________________________________
INDOLOGY mailing list
INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
http://listinfo.indology.info






From vglyssenko at yandex.ru  Fri Jul  5 08:39:50 2013
From: vglyssenko at yandex.ru (Viktoria Lysenko)
Date: Fri, 05 Jul 13 12:39:50 +0400
Subject: [INDOLOGY] save Russian Academy of Sciences
Message-ID: <1679371373013590@web28d.yandex.ru>

Please, sign this letter!
http://www.save-russian-academy.org/

-- 
Victoria Lysenko, dr.hab.philos.
Head, Department for Oriental philosophy studies
Institute of Philosophy, Russian Academy of Sciences
Moscow, Volkhonka, 14
Professor, Russian State University for Humanities
Russia





From christophe.vielle at uclouvain.be  Fri Jul  5 09:21:59 2013
From: christophe.vielle at uclouvain.be (Christophe Vielle)
Date: Fri, 05 Jul 13 11:21:59 +0200
Subject: [INDOLOGY] question for European Indologists
In-Reply-To: <BAY155-W40B373435B3B322C06F10CD7C0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <848845B9-F451-4502-B4D4-236CCBD7B55C@uclouvain.be>

Dear Judit,
I was of course mentioning the Sanskrit chair of the Coll?ge de France in a historical perspective, as the starting point of the French instituted tradition of Sanskrit studies (there no longer exists a "Sanskrit chair" a such in this institute*, where the chair holder has the special privilege to teach only the researches he carries or what else he wants; after the recent retiring of the holder of the chair in history of India and Greater India, there is still a chair of Indo-Iranian languages and religions - both Fussman and Kellens had previously taught Sanskrit, respectively in Strasbourg and Li?ge, before to reach the Coll?ge, where the former has continued to propose reading of Sanskrit texts). It is true that Paris 3 / Sorbonne is the only university in France to offer a full undegraduate (and graduate) degree in classical Indology, but beside your own lectures in Sanskrit in Lille 3 university, it should be added that there is still optional courses of Sanskrit (two levels or years) at least in Strasbourg:
https://www.unistra.fr/index.php?id=10106 (Ducoeur)
Aix-Marseille:
http://gsite.univ-provence.fr/gsite/Local/sciencesantiq/dir/user-3510/Options%20SKT.pdf (Brocquet)
and Lyon 3:
http://facdeslangues.univ-lyon3.fr/presentation/departements/indologie/ (Chojnacki)
where students can thus be initiated in order to be able to attend graduate (Paris 3) or post-graduate level courses (EPHE, EHESS etc.).
Formerly, there were real "chairs" of Sanskrit in the last three universities (ending respectively with Oguibenine and Varenne, and... I do not know for Lyon, where there was Paul Regnaud in the 19th century, and also Renou before he came to Paris), but where these old (individual) chairs were not transformed into real Indological departments/teams (as in Paris 3), it became impossible to keep there the (full) degrees in the field (same here in Belgium, where only the university of Ghent did that).
Best wishes,
Christophe

* I may be wrong, but Sylvain L?vi's "chaire de langue et litt?rature sanscrite" was the last "Sanskrit" self-declared one in the Coll?ge.

Le 4 juil. 2013 ? 23:08, Judit Torzsok a ?crit :

> Since the French indological tradition has been mentioned: I cannot speak for others, but in Lille, we still use the French version of Gonda (this seems to be a local tradition, which I have not broken), to which I add exercises from my French translation of George Hart's book and my own exercises for the Devanaagarii + Hitopade"sa stories from Lanman's reader, with vocabulary in French. 
> An interesting book we also use is R. Garnier's Textes ?piques sanskrits, which would nevertheless need a revised/corrected edition. 
> The problem (or my problem) is that one cannot/is not supposed to use English medium books in France, let alone German. I'd also like to remark that there is no Sanskrit teaching as such at the Coll?ge de France and the only place that has a proper undergraduate course in Indology in France is Paris III / Sorbonne nouvelle.
>  
> For those who are interested in the history of teaching Sanskrit: in Hungary, Richard Fick's book (in German) was used for about half a century (n.b.: Gothic script edition---as those who had the privilege to use it remember...) After years of experimenting with various course books for beginners, I now find that Fick's was not so bad, with all the sample sentences taken from classical sources. And I know someone who still uses it.
>  
> Judit T?rzs?k
> 
> From: christophe.vielle at uclouvain.be
> Date: Thu, 4 Jul 2013 12:35:52 +0200
> To: soni at staff.uni-marburg.de
> CC: indology at list.indology.info
> Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] question for European Indologists
> 
> It is not the first Indian testimony I hear about the practical qualities of Father Robert Antoine's Manual (which in its grammatical explanations follows the indigenous, synchronic, tradition, and in the same time is close to the Jesuit manuals of Latin or Greek which where in use in the European high schools until the 70s). I like it (including all its little defaults) and use it now for teaching in Louvain-la-Neuve since a few years - see more on it from Indology list archives 22-7-2008 below.
> 
> I am surprised to not hear on this list about Sanskrit teaching in countries like France and Italy which both have a strong and long tradition in the matter (the Coll?ge the France will celebrate in 2014 the bi-centenary of the creation of the first occidental Sanskrit chair, started with Antoine-L?onard de Ch?zy). I would be interested to know more about the teaching tradition in Italy and the use of manuals such the ones by Pizzagalli (1931), Rampolla del Tindaro (1936) or Della Casa (1980).
> In France, I suppose that Victor Henry's "?l?ments de sanscrit classique" (1902), despite its 1963 reprint, is now forgotten. Abel Bergaigne's "Manuel pour ?tudier la langue sanscrite" (1st ed. 1883),  to the reprint of which Louis Renou added an "avant-propos" (1966) underlying the "good" difficulty of it, is still held in high esteem, but apparently no longer in use (to note that Sylvain Brocquet in his recent "grammaire ?l?mentaire et pratique", which is mainly a manual, proposes [p. 450] to start it... after having completed his own one!). Gonda's little grammar (which despite its French title "Manuel de grammaire" is not really a manual) in its French translation by Rosane Rocher (cf. now the 1997 ed. with Oguibenine's addenda), appears to be still widely used as a handout (I personally prefer to propose in this role Renou's "Grammaire ?l?mentaire", 1st ed. 1946).
> In French-speaking Belgium, Bergaigne's "Manuel" was used by Louis de La Vall?e Poussin (see what he says in the Pr?face to his former student Joseph Mansion's "Esquisse d'une histoire de la langue sanscrite"). I know that Etienne Lamotte was not fond of teaching elementary grammar: his students had to read and learn by themselves the paradigms etc., and, before to go through the texts, he limited his basic teaching to one lesson on the script, on lesson on the sandhi, and one on the compounds: I have made a .pdf copy of Lamotte's syllabus on the compounds available at
> http://belgianindology.blogs.lalibre.be/list/s-b-i-o-library/composition-en-sanskrit.html
> http://belgianindology.blogs.lalibre.be/list/s-b-i-o-library/1107017223.pdf
> 
> Best wishes,
> 
> Christophe Vielle
> 
> Le 4 juil. 2013 ? 07:18, soni at staff.uni-marburg.de a ?crit :
> The first time I really ?studied? Sanskrit (and then understanding the mantras which we had learnt by rote), was in the 70s, and through the Jesuit priest Antoine?s book on Sanskrit. in 2 volumes. Now it sounds strange that a traditional Sanskritist here in Banaras used this as a text book, this was for English speaking students.
> 
> By that time I had passed the stage of fearing the classical languages as with Latin when we said at school: Latin is a subject as dead as dead can be; it killed the ancient Romans and now it?s killing me!
> Sanskrit is now keeping me alive.
> 
> Jay
> 
> 
> De :  Stella Sandahl <ssandahl at sympatico.ca>
> Objet : Sanskrit Primers: R. Antoine's Sanskrit Manual
> Date : 22 juillet 2008
> ? :    INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk
> Dear Colleagues,
> Good old Antoine! I think it is still relatively easy to get copies in India. Unfortunately, the one I used to have (in two volumes) was printed in India and was very difficult to read because of the so badly printed (and too small) devanagari script, not to speak of the many printing errors. But it was - and remains - a very thorough introduction to Sanskrit along with Kale's grammar (which suffers from the same printing defects).
> There seems to be an amazing array of published and unpublished Sanskrit primers which I have been made aware of through kind communications from many colleagues. Mille grazie! Personally I would have liked to try out David Shulman's superb primer.  Unfortunately it is in Hebrew, and the English translation is not yet out.  Maurer  caught my attention because it is amusing with chapters like "The mysterious gerund" and "The Romance of compounds" apart from being very well organized.
> Coulson has too much transliteration, and since it is a teach-yourself-book, there is a key to all the exercises which is counter-productive in a class room. Killingley introduces the devanagari script only in lesson 23. Here in Canada, where more than half (and sometimes all) of the students are of Indian origin, a text book using so much transliteration will be perceived as arrogant Western neo-colonialism. And even the least gifted student usually learns the script in two weeks - that's when I stop transliterating.
>  There is no ideal text book out there - but there are many very good ones. All of them have their strong and weak points. As the grammar doesn't change from one year the only thing an instructor can change is the text book.
> Best regards to all
> Stella Sandahl
> 
> De : Christophe Vielle <Christophe.Vielle at uclouvain.be>
> Objet : Sanskrit Primers: R. Antoine's Sanskrit Manual
> Date : 22 juillet 2008
> ? :    INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk
>  
> Dear Colleagues,
> I dare to add another Sanskrit primer to the other excellent ones (Coulson, Deshpande, etc.) which could have been quoted in the discussion.
> Some years ago, I heard through an Indian friend (a Syriac scholar from Kottayam) about the high value of the Sanskrit Manual of Father R. Antoine s.j., a Belgian scholar who taught in St. Xavier's College, Calcutta (cf. http://www.goethals.in/collections/felixrajarticles/robert.htm : Robert Antoine: The Indologist by J Felix Raj, SJ).
> More recently, Prof. Winand Callewaert, from the University of Leuven, told me that he was also using Antoine's manual for his 1st year Sanskrit students.
> I finally got an exemplar of this manual through an antiquarian bookseller.
> The "Part I" is in two volumes entitled "A Sanskrit Manual for High schools" and "Book of Exercises for the Sanskrit Manual" (1953, Catholic Press, Ranchi; a think that there was in the seventies a reprint in one vol.). The 26 lessons, supposed to cover "the matter of the first three years (standards IV to VI or classes VI to VIII)" of High school, appears to fit perfectly with a first year Sanskrit at the university level.
> The lessons are very clear, and the vocabulary to learn, Sanskrit sentences to translate and composition exercises well chosen.
> The "Part II" "meant as an immediate preparation for the School Final Examination", joins in one vol. 27 lessons and the exercices, in which the Sanskrit sentences are taken from Kaavya-maalaa or Kaalidaasa and classical literature (+ at the end a list of "verbal roots with their principal parts", "Sanskrit-English Glossary" and "English-Sanskrit Glossary"). So, at the end of High school, it was at that time possible to acquire a Sanskrit level as good as here the level of Greek and Latin of my forefathers... (which is now only possible to acquire at the University).
> Despite a few misprints to be corrected, the Manual deserves to be reprinted.
> I shall try with 1st year students the vol. I for the coming academic year.
> With best wishes,
> Christophe Vielle
> [Addendum 2013:] A .pdf version of the 1st ed.
> Antoine, R. 1953-1954, A Sanskrit Manual for High Schools, 2 vols, Calcutta : St. Xavier?s College.
> is available at :   http://www.ragalalit.net/priv/ (id = Lalit, pw = komalRe)
> A reprint of vol. 1 is available at: http://www.archive.org/details/sanskritmanualfo00antouoft
>  
> 
> _______________________________________________ INDOLOGY mailing listINDOLOGY at list.indology.info http://listinfo.indology.info

???????????????????
Christophe Vielle
Louvain-la-Neuve

Editor, Publications de l'Institut Orientaliste de Louvain series
- Last Indological issues: PIOL nos 53, 60, 63, 64 
- Still available: Mah?praj??p?ramit???stra (vols 1-2-3-4-5),  Asa?ga's Mah?y?nasa?graha, Vimalak?rtinirde?a, Lamotte's History of Indian Buddhism, etc.



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From vinodpolpaya at gmail.com  Fri Jul  5 14:35:41 2013
From: vinodpolpaya at gmail.com (Dr. P. Vinod Bhattathiripad)
Date: Fri, 05 Jul 13 20:05:41 +0530
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Registration form
Message-ID: <CAPoKjtfkkMp7geAzvN8ZZE46Kvbj+GmGn_q1SquArXZVZE1Uqg@mail.gmail.com>

Dear All

Please see the attached registration form for the 6th International Vedic
Workshop. Please visit  www.ivw2014.org for more details.

Looking forward to meeting you here.

Dr. P. Vinod Bhattathiripad
Workshop Co-ordinator


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From elena.mucciarelli at indo.uni-tuebingen.de  Sat Jul  6 09:23:04 2013
From: elena.mucciarelli at indo.uni-tuebingen.de (Elena Mucciarelli)
Date: Sat, 06 Jul 13 11:23:04 +0200
Subject: =?utf-8?Q?[INDOLOGY]_Epigraphia_Carnatica_Digitization_Project_-_T=C3=BCbingen?=
Message-ID: <8E30EC61-058F-4618-A28C-834BE545F055@indo.uni-tuebingen.de>

Dear members of the list,

I have the pleasure to announce that the digitization of the complete first edition of the Epigraphia Carnatica at the University of T?bingen has started. Volume six is already online:
http://idb.ub.uni-tuebingen.de/diglit/EC.
For further information about this corpus and the related project, see http://www.uni-tuebingen.de/de/35650.
Any comments or suggestions are most welcomed.

Best regards,
Elena Mucciarelli

-------------------------

Dr. des. Elena Mucciarelli
Research Fellow

Eberhard Karls Universit?t T?bingen
Asien-Orient-Institut (AOI)
Abteilung f?r Indologie und Vergleichende Religionswissenschaft
Gartenstr. 19 ? 72074 T?bingen
+39 346 9794321
+49 (0) 176 64686755
elena.mucciarelli at indo.uni-tuebingen.de








From sellmers at gmx.de  Sun Jul  7 13:57:36 2013
From: sellmers at gmx.de (Sven Sellmer)
Date: Sun, 07 Jul 13 15:57:36 +0200
Subject: [INDOLOGY] mms of Bhasa'a plays
In-Reply-To: <20130703155319.16370.qmail@f4mail-235-198.rediffmail.com>
Message-ID: <899DA282-148E-49C2-A777-30067DD9978C@gmx.de>

Dear Colleague,

you may want to have a look at Anna Aurelia Esposito's editions of C?rudatta (2004) and D?tav?kya (2010).

Best wishes,
Sven

Am 03.07.2013 um 17:53 schrieb alakendu das <mailmealakendudas at REDIFFMAIL.COM>:

> 
> Scholars and Members,
> Can anyone elaborate or show nay refernce on manuscripts of 13 plays by Bhasa' founded by eminent Indologist Ganapathy Shastri.
> 
> 
> ALAKENDU DAS
> mailmealakendudas at rediffmail.com
> 
> 
> Get your own FREE website and domain with business email solutions, click here
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> http://listinfo.indology.info



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From dbhattacharya200498 at yahoo.com  Mon Jul  8 06:37:53 2013
From: dbhattacharya200498 at yahoo.com (Dipak Bhattacharya)
Date: Mon, 08 Jul 13 14:37:53 +0800
Subject: [INDOLOGY] MSS of Bhasa'a plays
In-Reply-To: <899DA282-148E-49C2-A777-30067DD9978C@gmx.de>
Message-ID: <1373265473.45364.YahooMailNeo@web193506.mail.sg3.yahoo.com>





________________________________
 From: Sven Sellmer <sellmers at gmx.de>
To: alakendu das <mailmealakendudas at REDIFFMAIL.COM> 
Cc: indology at list.indology.info 
Sent: Sunday, 7 July 2013 7:27 PM
Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] mms of Bhasa'a plays
 


Dear Colleague,

you may want to have a look at Anna Aurelia Esposito's editions of C?rudatta (2004) and D?tav?kya (2010).

Best wishes,
Sven


Am 03.07.2013 um 17:53 schrieb alakendu das <mailmealakendudas at REDIFFMAIL.COM>:


>Scholars and Members,
>Can anyone  elaborate or show nay refernce on   manuscripts of 13 plays by Bhasa' founded by eminent Indologist Ganapathy Shastri.
>
>
>ALAKENDU DAS
>mailmealakendudas at rediffmail.com
> 
>
>Get your own FREE website and domain with business email solutions, click here_______________________________________________
>INDOLOGY mailing list
>INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>http://listinfo.indology.info

_______________________________________________
INDOLOGY mailing list
INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
http://listinfo.indology.info


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From dbhattacharya200498 at yahoo.com  Mon Jul  8 06:39:38 2013
From: dbhattacharya200498 at yahoo.com (Dipak Bhattacharya)
Date: Mon, 08 Jul 13 14:39:38 +0800
Subject: [INDOLOGY] MSS of Bhasa'a plays
In-Reply-To: <1373265473.45364.YahooMailNeo@web193506.mail.sg3.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1373265578.40339.YahooMailNeo@web193506.mail.sg3.yahoo.com>

8.7.13
C.R.Devadhar, Bh?san??akacakram: Plays ascribed to Bh?sa, Poona
1962,rep MLBD 1999 ?gives an account of
the mas used by him.
DB



________________________________
 From: Dipak Bhattacharya <dbhattacharya200498 at yahoo.com>
To: Sven Sellmer <sellmers at gmx.de>; alakendu das <mailmealakendudas at REDIFFMAIL.COM> 
Cc: "indology at list.indology.info" <indology at list.indology.info> 
Sent: Monday, 8 July 2013 12:07 PM
Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] MSS of Bhasa'a plays
 





________________________________
 From: Sven Sellmer <sellmers at gmx.de>
To: alakendu das <mailmealakendudas at REDIFFMAIL.COM> 
Cc: indology at list.indology.info 
Sent: Sunday, 7 July 2013 7:27 PM
Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] mms of Bhasa'a plays
 


Dear Colleague,

you may want to have a look at Anna Aurelia Esposito's editions of C?rudatta (2004) and D?tav?kya (2010).

Best wishes,
Sven


Am 03.07.2013 um 17:53 schrieb alakendu das <mailmealakendudas at REDIFFMAIL.COM>:


>Scholars and Members,
>Can anyone  elaborate or show nay refernce on   manuscripts of 13 plays by Bhasa' founded by eminent Indologist Ganapathy Shastri.
>
>
>ALAKENDU DAS
>mailmealakendudas at rediffmail.com
> 
>
>Get your own FREE website and domain with business email solutions, click here_______________________________________________
>INDOLOGY mailing list
>INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>http://listinfo.indology.info

_______________________________________________
INDOLOGY mailing list
INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
http://listinfo.indology.info


_______________________________________________
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From wc3 at soas.ac.uk  Mon Jul  8 15:49:21 2013
From: wc3 at soas.ac.uk (Whitney Cox)
Date: Mon, 08 Jul 13 10:49:21 -0500
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Lecturer in Sanskrit and Classical Indian Studies, SOAS, University of London
Message-ID: <CAMg1_hPULW8dxSDLO=xOuyDPvRz13-ujO43OEHZR-ZVMaOrO2A@mail.gmail.com>

Dear colleagues and friends,

Please see the link below for information about a lecturer position that
has just been offered as SOAS,

Yours,

Whitney Cox

http://jobs.soas.ac.uk/fe/tpl_soasnet01.asp?s=4A515F4E5A565B1A&jobid=61765,6572614671&key=394822&c=4578231282&pagestamp=dbsinjofxkafaglimk

-- 


Dr. Whitney Cox
Senior Lecturer in Sanskrit
Department of the Languages and Cultures of South Asia,
SOAS, University of London
Thornhaugh Street, Russell Square
London WC1H 0XG


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From whitakjl at wfu.edu  Mon Jul  8 16:17:04 2013
From: whitakjl at wfu.edu (Jarrod Whitaker)
Date: Mon, 08 Jul 13 12:17:04 -0400
Subject: [INDOLOGY] What's "Vedic"?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1126.1373035102.12137.indology_list.indology.info@list.indology.info>
Message-ID: <51DAE600.8070708@wfu.edu>

Dear Colleagues:
I need some friendly help and criticism. I am currently writing an 
article on warfare in "Ancient India" (1500 BCE-600 CE) and because I 
need to break up different periods, I am having trouble settling on 
dates and labels. Here is the paragraph I have written:

"I will delineate four heuristically useful, but rather arbitrary 
historical periods: 1) the early Vedic period, 1500-1000 BCE 
(represented by the R?gveda and parts of the Atharvaveda, and involving 
pastoral migrations and limited permanent settlement of the ?ryan tribes 
in the north and northwestern parts of the Subcontinent); 2) the 
middle-"classical" Vedic period, 1000-500 BCE (represented by the 
Yajurveda, Br?hma?as, early Upani?ads, and involving a transition from 
pastoralism to permanent territorial control, the rise of systematic 
class stratification that is realized through complex ritual, social, 
and political relationships, and ending with the rise of city states 
across the Indo-Gangetic Plain); 3) the late Vedic period, 500 BCE to 1 
CE (represented by late Upani?ads, S?tra-??stra (smr?ti) texts and the 
Epics, and encompassing the rise of the Mauryan dynasty [300-185 BCE], 
and the rise of heterodox ascetic movements; namely Buddhism and 
Jainism); and 4) early "historical" period, 1?550 CE (represented by 
Epics, further ??stra literature, earliest P?ra?as, and involving the 
rise of Bhakti devotional movements, and ending with the collapse of the 
Gupta Dynasty [300-550 CE])."

I realize my use of "Vedic" is broader than usual (my dates are of 
course designed to break up the article into clear, manageable 
sections). Many sources want to end the "Vedic period" with roughly the 
2nd Urbanization, which is equated with the Upanisads as "Ved?nta"/?ruti 
(see Example* below). The term "Ved?nta" is of course an emic concept 
that closes the "sacred canon" and hence "Vedic" is often synonymous 
with ?ruti. But the use of the term certainly doesn't end the production 
of extensive texts on Brahmanical values, customs, rituals, and 
ideologies/theologies. If "Vedic" is synonymous with "Brahmanical", then 
Smrti literature and the epics would be no less "Vedic" than ?ruti 
literature These issues become further complicated when we factor in a 
broad separation of early and late Upanisads, the composition of early 
and late ?rauta and Grhya literature, and include Bronkhorst's recent 
work, which throws a sizable wrench in the works (or spanner, depending 
on your current geography) as his argument would push some of the 
middle/classical Vedic period into my late Vedic period. (I also don't 
want to imply that Vedic texts and practices somehow disappear at 1 CE, 
because I no longer use the label "Vedic" in the above paragraph for the 
Common Era.)

Anyway, I am happy to take suggestions here for inventive and/or 
authoritative ways to think through this. And since I would rather pin 
my dates on someone else (always good to lay blame elsewhere), is there 
a recent "up-to-date" source that offers a reliable and/or reasonable 
insight into these issues, while designating some broad historical periods?

Perhaps we could compile over this list a general impression about the 
labels, relative chronology, timeframes/dates, and issues that you use 
with your students and in publication (including the sources to which 
you default).

Perhaps the key problem is trying to come up with neat historical boxes 
for a general audience...

Cheers
Jarrod

Example*
Here is an example of two different frameworks from Erdosy (1995):
Allchin: Pre-Vedic Indo-Aryan migration (2000 BCE), Vedic Aryan 
migration (1750-1500 BCE). Early Vedic (1750-1500 BCE), (Middle) Vedic 
(1500-1000 BCE), and Late Vedic period (1000-600 BCE).

Erdosy (same volume): Early Iron Age (c.1000-600 BCE) for material 
culture and Late Vedic for literature in the same period.) Early 
Historic or Second Urbanization (c.600-300 BCE), and Post-Vedic (c.600 
BCE-300 CE).

Jarrod Whitaker, Ph.D.
Associate Professor, South Asian Religions
Zachary T. Smith Faculty Fellow
Graduate Program Director

Wake Forest University
Department of Religion
P.O. Box 7212
Winston-Salem, NC 27109
whitakjl at wfu.edu
p 336.758.4162





From arlogriffiths at hotmail.com  Tue Jul  9 11:48:30 2013
From: arlogriffiths at hotmail.com (Arlo Griffiths)
Date: Tue, 09 Jul 13 11:48:30 +0000
Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_[INDOLOGY]_Epigraphia_Carnatica_Digitization_Project_-_T=C3=BCbingen?=
In-Reply-To: <8E30EC61-058F-4618-A28C-834BE545F055@indo.uni-tuebingen.de>
Message-ID: <DUB114-W106217D02FE6F45A8CB9FC7A5790@phx.gbl>

Thank you for this announcement and the efforts going into this project. 

A searchable digital version of the complete set of EC would indeed be a wonderful objective. In fact a start was made towards the digitization, with human proofreading of OCR-results, of EC volume I, by Annette Schmiedchen with assistance of Reinhold Gruenendahl a few years ago, but I am not sure how far Dr. Schmiedchen came.

The online availability of good graphic scans of the entire series of EC is of great value in itself. But might I urge you to make more serious work of the "OCR-Volltext"? This is entirely null for the hundreds of pages of contents in Kannada script (which perhaps may be excused if Kannada OCR does not yet exist), but the OCR-ed results for the parts in roman script, in particular the transliterations of the actual inscriptions, appears not to be of much greater value. This means that the search function that is offered will allow nobody to actually find the epigraphic attestations of words that they are looking for.

Would it be possible to for each volume of EC a text-file giving at least the transliterations in carefully checked form, so that people can download these and add them to their own collections of epigraphic text files, or make the actual texts of the inscriptions available in some other useful form, e.g. through GRETIL or SARIT, or through an EpiDoc-based website such as this one <http://isaw.nyu.edu/publications/inscriptions/campa/index.html>? This will mean a lot of extra work, but will do much more to truly bring Epigraphia Carnatica into the digital age.

Best wishes,

Arlo Griffiths
EFEO/Jakarta



> From: elena.mucciarelli at indo.uni-tuebingen.de
> Date: Sat, 6 Jul 2013 11:23:04 +0200
> To: indology at list.indology.info
> Subject: [INDOLOGY] Epigraphia Carnatica Digitization Project - T?bingen
> 
> Dear members of the list,
> 
> I have the pleasure to announce that the digitization of the complete first edition of the Epigraphia Carnatica at the University of T?bingen has started. Volume six is already online:
> http://idb.ub.uni-tuebingen.de/diglit/EC.
> For further information about this corpus and the related project, see http://www.uni-tuebingen.de/de/35650.
> Any comments or suggestions are most welcomed.
> 
> Best regards,
> Elena Mucciarelli
> 
> -------------------------
> 
> Dr. des. Elena Mucciarelli
> Research Fellow
> 
> Eberhard Karls Universit?t T?bingen
> Asien-Orient-Institut (AOI)
> Abteilung f?r Indologie und Vergleichende Religionswissenschaft
> Gartenstr. 19 ? 72074 T?bingen
> +39 346 9794321
> +49 (0) 176 64686755
> elena.mucciarelli at indo.uni-tuebingen.de
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> http://listinfo.indology.info
 		 	   		  


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From rajam at earthlink.net  Tue Jul  9 23:11:51 2013
From: rajam at earthlink.net (Rajam)
Date: Tue, 09 Jul 13 16:11:51 -0700
Subject: =?utf-8?Q?[INDOLOGY]_Jeanne_Hein_passed_away_=E2=80=A6?=
Message-ID: <B738B090-8D79-42D3-9AEA-071959B84B0C@earthlink.net>

Friends, 

My apologies for the cross-posting but I thought it is alright at the moment, given the nature of the information. 

It is with deep sadness I report the passing away of Mrs. Jeanne Hein, wife of Professor Emeritus Norvin Hein (Yale) and my friend-collabortaor of the book we recently published, "The Earliest Missionary Grammar of Tamil" by Harvard University Press. Jeanne was suffering from the Alzheimer's for the past four years, and passed away at the age of 94 on Saturday (July 6) night at home in Bethany, New Haven, and was at peace, as anyone would wish. Services are on Saturday, July 20th. 

The knowledge of the old 16-th Century Latin and Portuguese, Early Missionaries and Church History in India, etc., etc., ? all accumulated in her smart brain is all gone now. There's no one now to tell us about it any more. Thankfully, we have captured a small amount in our book. I have no words to express the pain of my loss. 

With regards,
V. S. Rajam  





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From hr at ivs.edu  Tue Jul  9 23:55:37 2013
From: hr at ivs.edu (Howard Resnick)
Date: Tue, 09 Jul 13 16:55:37 -0700
Subject: [INDOLOGY] What's "Vedic"?
In-Reply-To: <51DAE600.8070708@wfu.edu>
Message-ID: <78E51581-CDEE-49CF-A839-C6DDED1B652E@ivs.edu>

Dear Jarrod,
	I appreciate your project. Regarding your four heuristic historical periods, you place the Epics and earliest Puranas in the fourth period. Since many of those works are a m?lange of materials from many periods, some likely very old, is there a way to avoid anachronisms without drifting into circular use of dating evidence?
	I wish you success in this ambitious and valuable undertaking.
Best,
Howard Resnick



On Jul 8, 2013, at 9:17 AM, Jarrod Whitaker <whitakjl at wfu.edu> wrote:

> Dear Colleagues:
> I need some friendly help and criticism. I am currently writing an article on warfare in "Ancient India" (1500 BCE-600 CE) and because I need to break up different periods, I am having trouble settling on dates and labels. Here is the paragraph I have written:
> 
> "I will delineate four heuristically useful, but rather arbitrary historical periods: 1) the early Vedic period, 1500-1000 BCE (represented by the R?gveda and parts of the Atharvaveda, and involving pastoral migrations and limited permanent settlement of the ?ryan tribes in the north and northwestern parts of the Subcontinent); 2) the middle-"classical" Vedic period, 1000-500 BCE (represented by the Yajurveda, Br?hma?as, early Upani?ads, and involving a transition from pastoralism to permanent territorial control, the rise of systematic class stratification that is realized through complex ritual, social, and political relationships, and ending with the rise of city states across the Indo-Gangetic Plain); 3) the late Vedic period, 500 BCE to 1 CE (represented by late Upani?ads, S?tra-??stra (smr?ti) texts and the Epics, and encompassing the rise of the Mauryan dynasty [300-185 BCE], and the rise of heterodox ascetic movements; namely Buddhism and Jainism); and 4) early "historical" period, 1?550 CE (represented by Epics, further ??stra literature, earliest P?ra?as, and involving the rise of Bhakti devotional movements, and ending with the collapse of the Gupta Dynasty [300-550 CE])."
> 
> I realize my use of "Vedic" is broader than usual (my dates are of course designed to break up the article into clear, manageable sections). Many sources want to end the "Vedic period" with roughly the 2nd Urbanization, which is equated with the Upanisads as "Ved?nta"/?ruti (see Example* below). The term "Ved?nta" is of course an emic concept that closes the "sacred canon" and hence "Vedic" is often synonymous with ?ruti. But the use of the term certainly doesn't end the production of extensive texts on Brahmanical values, customs, rituals, and ideologies/theologies. If "Vedic" is synonymous with "Brahmanical", then Smrti literature and the epics would be no less "Vedic" than ?ruti literature These issues become further complicated when we factor in a broad separation of early and late Upanisads, the composition of early and late ?rauta and Grhya literature, and include Bronkhorst's recent work, which throws a sizable wrench in the works (or spanner, depending on your current geography) as his argument would push some of the middle/classical Vedic period into my late Vedic period. (I also don't want to imply that Vedic texts and practices somehow disappear at 1 CE, because I no longer use the label "Vedic" in the above paragraph for the Common Era.)
> 
> Anyway, I am happy to take suggestions here for inventive and/or authoritative ways to think through this. And since I would rather pin my dates on someone else (always good to lay blame elsewhere), is there a recent "up-to-date" source that offers a reliable and/or reasonable insight into these issues, while designating some broad historical periods?
> 
> Perhaps we could compile over this list a general impression about the labels, relative chronology, timeframes/dates, and issues that you use with your students and in publication (including the sources to which you default).
> 
> Perhaps the key problem is trying to come up with neat historical boxes for a general audience...
> 
> Cheers
> Jarrod
> 
> Example*
> Here is an example of two different frameworks from Erdosy (1995):
> Allchin: Pre-Vedic Indo-Aryan migration (2000 BCE), Vedic Aryan migration (1750-1500 BCE). Early Vedic (1750-1500 BCE), (Middle) Vedic (1500-1000 BCE), and Late Vedic period (1000-600 BCE).
> 
> Erdosy (same volume): Early Iron Age (c.1000-600 BCE) for material culture and Late Vedic for literature in the same period.) Early Historic or Second Urbanization (c.600-300 BCE), and Post-Vedic (c.600 BCE-300 CE).
> 
> Jarrod Whitaker, Ph.D.
> Associate Professor, South Asian Religions
> Zachary T. Smith Faculty Fellow
> Graduate Program Director
> 
> Wake Forest University
> Department of Religion
> P.O. Box 7212
> Winston-Salem, NC 27109
> whitakjl at wfu.edu
> p 336.758.4162
> 
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> http://listinfo.indology.info
> 






From elena.mucciarelli at indo.uni-tuebingen.de  Wed Jul 10 07:33:01 2013
From: elena.mucciarelli at indo.uni-tuebingen.de (Elena Mucciarelli)
Date: Wed, 10 Jul 13 09:33:01 +0200
Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_[INDOLOGY]_Epigraphia_Carnatica_Digitization_Project_-_T=C3=BCbingen?=
In-Reply-To: <DUB114-W106217D02FE6F45A8CB9FC7A5790@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <BFA7AF9A-DF27-4B10-AE4D-E713051518DE@indo.uni-tuebingen.de>

Thank you for you comment and for the suggestion. I have already spoken with the responsible of the Library. All the scans of the volumes (1st edition and some of the 2nd edition which in some cases entail different districts- total: 30 volumes) and this "first-level" cataloging have been done with internal resources.  I am waiting for them to decide if they are willing to apply for some founding in order to have at least the transliteration in the searchable form. 
Your email, as well as that of Andrew Ollet, is of great help in trying to convince them.
I?ll contact Dr. Schmiedchen and I?ve already written to Dr. Voegeli who has worked on Epigraphia Indica: I would like to try to organize a workshop here in T?bingen summoning the people who works to bring Indological texts into the digital age (as, e.g., the Sanskrit Manuscript Project in Cambridge as well as Bhasa Project). 

Any help and advise are really most welcomed,

Best Wishes
Elena Mucciarelli




Dr. des. Elena Mucciarelli
Research Fellow

Eberhard Karls Universit?t T?bingen
Asien-Orient-Institut (AOI)
Abteilung f?r Indologie und Vergleichende Religionswissenschaft
Gartenstr. 19 ? 72074 T?bingen
+39 346 9794321
+49 (0) 176 64686755
elena.mucciarelli at indo.uni-tuebingen.de




On 09/lug/2013, at 13:48, Arlo Griffiths <arlogriffiths at hotmail.com> wrote:

> Thank you for this announcement and the efforts going into this project. 
> 
> A searchable digital version of the complete set of EC would indeed be a wonderful objective. In fact a start was made towards the digitization, with human proofreading of OCR-results, of EC volume I, by Annette Schmiedchen with assistance of Reinhold Gruenendahl a few years ago, but I am not sure how far Dr. Schmiedchen came.
> 
> The online availability of good graphic scans of the entire series of EC is of great value in itself. But might I urge you to make more serious work of the "OCR-Volltext"? This is entirely null for the hundreds of pages of contents in Kannada script (which perhaps may be excused if Kannada OCR does not yet exist), but the OCR-ed results for the parts in roman script, in particular the transliterations of the actual inscriptions, appears not to be of much greater value. This means that the search function that is offered will allow nobody to actually find the epigraphic attestations of words that they are looking for.
> 
> Would it be possible to for each volume of EC a text-file giving at least the transliterations in carefully checked form, so that people can download these and add them to their own collections of epigraphic text files, or make the actual texts of the inscriptions available in some other useful form, e.g. through GRETIL or SARIT, or through an EpiDoc-based website such as this one <http://isaw.nyu.edu/publications/inscriptions/campa/index.html>? This will mean a lot of extra work, but will do much more to truly bring Epigraphia Carnatica into the digital age.
> 
> Best wishes,
> 
> Arlo Griffiths
> EFEO/Jakarta
> 
> 
> 
> > From: elena.mucciarelli at indo.uni-tuebingen.de
> > Date: Sat, 6 Jul 2013 11:23:04 +0200
> > To: indology at list.indology.info
> > Subject: [INDOLOGY] Epigraphia Carnatica Digitization Project - T?bingen
> > 
> > Dear members of the list,
> > 
> > I have the pleasure to announce that the digitization of the complete first edition of the Epigraphia Carnatica at the University of T?bingen has started. Volume six is already online:
> > http://idb.ub.uni-tuebingen.de/diglit/EC.
> > For further information about this corpus and the related project, see http://www.uni-tuebingen.de/de/35650.
> > Any comments or suggestions are most welcomed.
> > 
> > Best regards,
> > Elena Mucciarelli
> > 
> > -------------------------
> > 
> > Dr. des. Elena Mucciarelli
> > Research Fellow
> > 
> > Eberhard Karls Universit?t T?bingen
> > Asien-Orient-Institut (AOI)
> > Abteilung f?r Indologie und Vergleichende Religionswissenschaft
> > Gartenstr. 19 ? 72074 T?bingen
> > +39 346 9794321
> > +49 (0) 176 64686755
> > elena.mucciarelli at indo.uni-tuebingen.de
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > _______________________________________________
> > INDOLOGY mailing list
> > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> > http://listinfo.indology.info



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From july2307 at yandex.ru  Wed Jul 10 09:54:10 2013
From: july2307 at yandex.ru (Dmitriy)
Date: Wed, 10 Jul 13 13:54:10 +0400
Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_[INDOLOGY]=09Epigraphia_Carnatica_Digitization_Project_-_T=C3=BCbingen?=
In-Reply-To: <8E30EC61-058F-4618-A28C-834BE545F055@indo.uni-tuebingen.de>
Message-ID: <32361373450050@web1h.yandex.ru>


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From jpo at uts.cc.utexas.edu  Wed Jul 10 18:38:56 2013
From: jpo at uts.cc.utexas.edu (Patrick Olivelle)
Date: Wed, 10 Jul 13 13:38:56 -0500
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Buddhist Citation
Message-ID: <307F214D-3C4F-4064-BB6A-6156EEBD4D32@uts.cc.utexas.edu>

I wonder whether any of you can help me with a citation in Kum?rila's Tantrav?rttika (on PMS 1.3.4; ?nSS p. 114). 

buddh?de? punar ayam eva vyatikromo 'ala?k?rubuddhau sthita? | tenaivam ?ha |

 kalikalu?ak?t?ni y?ni loke mayi nipatantu vimucyat?? tu loka? ||

Does anyone know of a Buddhist text called Ala?k?rabuddhi? Or is this a misreading of a different text with a similar name?

Thanks.

Patrick




From hr at ivs.edu  Wed Jul 10 18:49:38 2013
From: hr at ivs.edu (Howard Resnick)
Date: Wed, 10 Jul 13 11:49:38 -0700
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Buddhist Citation
In-Reply-To: <307F214D-3C4F-4064-BB6A-6156EEBD4D32@uts.cc.utexas.edu>
Message-ID: <A3097162-D604-496E-900B-805FF876DEFD@ivs.edu>

vyatikromo?

On Jul 10, 2013, at 11:38 AM, Patrick Olivelle <jpo at uts.cc.utexas.edu> wrote:

> I wonder whether any of you can help me with a citation in Kum?rila's Tantrav?rttika (on PMS 1.3.4; ?nSS p. 114). 
> 
> buddh?de? punar ayam eva vyatikromo 'ala?k?rubuddhau sthita? | tenaivam ?ha |
> 
> kalikalu?ak?t?ni y?ni loke mayi nipatantu vimucyat?? tu loka? ||
> 
> Does anyone know of a Buddhist text called Ala?k?rabuddhi? Or is this a misreading of a different text with a similar name?
> 
> Thanks.
> 
> Patrick
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> http://listinfo.indology.info
> 






From andrew.ollett at gmail.com  Wed Jul 10 18:56:53 2013
From: andrew.ollett at gmail.com (Andrew Ollett)
Date: Wed, 10 Jul 13 14:56:53 -0400
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Buddhist Citation
In-Reply-To: <A3097162-D604-496E-900B-805FF876DEFD@ivs.edu>
Message-ID: <CAANHO14R2wVV_L+87jvg9==TsXQtFuVdN7HAW7eN9x9V5Re3qw@mail.gmail.com>

the same passage is quoted in r?ja?ekhara's k?vyam?m??s? (8th ch.) and
ascribed to "bauddhasiddh?nt?yas" (p. 38 in dalal's ed.); the notes only
mention that it was quoted in the TV and "ascribed to the buddha."

andrew


On Wed, Jul 10, 2013 at 2:49 PM, Howard Resnick <hr at ivs.edu> wrote:

> vyatikromo?
>
> On Jul 10, 2013, at 11:38 AM, Patrick Olivelle <jpo at uts.cc.utexas.edu>
> wrote:
>
> > I wonder whether any of you can help me with a citation in Kum?rila's
> Tantrav?rttika (on PMS 1.3.4; ?nSS p. 114).
> >
> > buddh?de? punar ayam eva vyatikromo 'ala?k?rubuddhau sthita? | tenaivam
> ?ha |
> >
> > kalikalu?ak?t?ni y?ni loke mayi nipatantu vimucyat?? tu loka? ||
> >
> > Does anyone know of a Buddhist text called Ala?k?rabuddhi? Or is this a
> misreading of a different text with a similar name?
> >
> > Thanks.
> >
> > Patrick
> > _______________________________________________
> > INDOLOGY mailing list
> > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> > http://listinfo.indology.info
> >
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> http://listinfo.indology.info
>


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From jpo at uts.cc.utexas.edu  Wed Jul 10 19:02:29 2013
From: jpo at uts.cc.utexas.edu (Patrick Olivelle)
Date: Wed, 10 Jul 13 14:02:29 -0500
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Buddhist Citation
In-Reply-To: <A3097162-D604-496E-900B-805FF876DEFD@ivs.edu>
Message-ID: <F9C83C0D-B9A5-452C-AE39-978B81CB203C@uts.cc.utexas.edu>

Sorry - typo; vyatikramo.



On Jul 10, 2013, at 1:49 PM, Howard Resnick wrote:

> vyatikromo?
> 
> On Jul 10, 2013, at 11:38 AM, Patrick Olivelle <jpo at uts.cc.utexas.edu> wrote:
> 
>> I wonder whether any of you can help me with a citation in Kum?rila's Tantrav?rttika (on PMS 1.3.4; ?nSS p. 114). 
>> 
>> buddh?de? punar ayam eva vyatikromo 'ala?k?rubuddhau sthita? | tenaivam ?ha |
>> 
>> kalikalu?ak?t?ni y?ni loke mayi nipatantu vimucyat?? tu loka? ||
>> 
>> Does anyone know of a Buddhist text called Ala?k?rabuddhi? Or is this a misreading of a different text with a similar name?
>> 
>> Thanks.
>> 
>> Patrick
>> _______________________________________________
>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>> http://listinfo.indology.info
>> 
> 






From ashok.aklujkar at gmail.com  Thu Jul 11 03:04:17 2013
From: ashok.aklujkar at gmail.com (Ashok Aklujkar)
Date: Wed, 10 Jul 13 20:04:17 -0700
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Buddhist Citation
In-Reply-To: <307F214D-3C4F-4064-BB6A-6156EEBD4D32@uts.cc.utexas.edu>
Message-ID: <8E12F30D-1F28-49FE-ADAC-D731E96649E0@mail.ubc.ca>

I cannot avoid the feeling that the Tantrav?rttika passage originally read  'ala?k?ra-bhuumau sthita.h (along with vyatikromo you should also correct the typo k?ru to k?ra). 

What Kum?rila is saying is that a transgression the followers of Veda dharma would consider degeneration, the Buddhists etc. have raised to the level of an ornament (a feather in their cap, to use the English idiom). The following lines of the passage suggest this as the intended meaning. Secondly, a form of sthaa is not likely to be used if a text was to be named as a source. Thirdly, since Kum?rila has used aadi after bauddha, he is not likely to cite only from a Buddhist text.

What he cites probably came from one of the Skt renditions of a Jaataka, perhaps a work of Aarya-;suura or  A;sva-gho.sa or a text in the Sukhaavanii (= Sukhaavatii) tradition as what I cite in the next paragraph suggests. 

The verse half not quoted by Kumaarila can be had from Hema-candra's Kaavyaanu;saasana:
aapta-vacanam aagama.h /  tatra "saivaagama-naipu.na.m yathaa- ghora-ghora-taraatiita-brahma-vidyaa-valaatiga.h/ [--> balaatiga.h?] paraaparapada-vyaapii paayaad va.h parame"svara.h //12// bauddhoma-naipu.na.m [--> bauddhaagama-?] yathaa kali-kalu.sa-k.rtaani yaani loke mayi nipatantu. vimucyataa.m sa loka.h / mama hi sucaritana [--> sucaritena] sarva-sattvaa.h parama-mukhena sukhaavanii.m prayaantu //13// evam aagamaantare.sv api /

The full TV passage is cited in Louis DE LA Vall`ee Poussin. On the Authority (Pramanya) of the Buddhist Agamas(1)  The Journal of the Royal Asiatic Society of Great Britain and Ireland  1902  pp.363-376. 

a.a.


On 2013-07-10, at 11:38 AM, Patrick Olivelle wrote:

I wonder whether any of you can help me with a citation in Kum?rila's Tantrav?rttika (on PMS 1.3.4; ?nSS p. 114). 

buddh?de? punar ayam eva vyatikromo 'ala?k?rubuddhau sthita? | tenaivam ?ha |

kalikalu?ak?t?ni y?ni loke mayi nipatantu vimucyat?? tu loka? ||

Does anyone know of a Buddhist text called Ala?k?rabuddhi? Or is this a misreading of a different text with a similar name?






From mkapstei at uchicago.edu  Thu Jul 11 03:58:21 2013
From: mkapstei at uchicago.edu (Matthew Kapstein)
Date: Thu, 11 Jul 13 03:58:21 +0000
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Buddhist Citation
In-Reply-To: <307F214D-3C4F-4064-BB6A-6156EEBD4D32@uts.cc.utexas.edu>
Message-ID: <82C3E42590D939418C74DD76B97DDED07BFF8E@xm-mbx-04-prod.ad.uchicago.edu>

Dear Patrick,

I am presently away from my library and so can only hazard a guess, but it may be worthwhile to check if K is
paraphrasing something from the Mah?y?nas?tr?lamk?ra or the Abhisamay?y?lamk?ra. The general idea that
the bodhisattva takes to himself the fruitsof the world's evils, while aspiring for itsfull liberation, is
quite widespread in Mah?y?na literature in any case. 

best,
Matthew

Matthew Kapstein
Directeur d'?tudes,
Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes

Numata Visiting Professor of Buddhist Studies,
The University of Chicago

________________________________________
From: INDOLOGY [indology-bounces at list.indology.info] on behalf of Patrick Olivelle [jpo at uts.cc.utexas.edu]
Sent: Wednesday, July 10, 2013 1:38 PM
To: Indology List
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Buddhist Citation

I wonder whether any of you can help me with a citation in Kum?rila's Tantrav?rttika (on PMS 1.3.4; ?nSS p. 114).

buddh?de? punar ayam eva vyatikromo 'ala?k?rubuddhau sthita? | tenaivam ?ha |

 kalikalu?ak?t?ni y?ni loke mayi nipatantu vimucyat?? tu loka? ||

Does anyone know of a Buddhist text called Ala?k?rabuddhi? Or is this a misreading of a different text with a similar name?

Thanks.

Patrick
_______________________________________________
INDOLOGY mailing list
INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
http://listinfo.indology.info




From spootland at hotmail.com  Thu Jul 11 07:55:19 2013
From: spootland at hotmail.com (DiSimone Charles)
Date: Thu, 11 Jul 13 00:55:19 -0700
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Digital Versions of PTS Texts?
Message-ID: <BAY175-W2455C177FE3AF61FEC582FBF7B0@phx.gbl>

Dear Friends and Colleagues,
My research at present obliges me to check a Sanskrit manuscript against a Pali version of the 'same' text.  While there are many freely available online databases of the Pali Tipitaka (this age of technology is truly a wonderful time to be alive!), I have been using the Pali Text Society's editions for citation purposes.  Unfortunately, as far as I am aware, there is no digital version of the PTS Tipitaka one can search and copy/paste from for citation.  I asked the folk at the PTS if they make digital versions of their publications available (a PDF or something) and their response was that they do not.  I assume that this is to protect their intellectual property, which is perfectly reasonable.  Still, such a thing would be most useful to scholars.  
Has anyone ever set out to make a digital version of any of the Pali Text Society's editions from the Tipitaka?  Perhaps someone has typed up various texts into Word or text files or PDFs?  If anyone has, would be much obliged if they would be willing to share it with me.  I am most in need of the D?gha Nik?ya but would be appreciative of anything.  
I guess a corollary question to this topic would be, is such a thing even legal, strictly speaking?  I am of the mind that any digitalized versions of the PTS texts would be used by scholars for research and cited accordingly, thus constituting fair use.  However, if anyone has any insights on this regarding copyright law, I would be keen to hear.
Thanks in advance for any help!Charlie
-- 
Charles DiSimonePromotionsprogramm Buddhismus-StudienDepartment of Indology and TibetologyLudwig-Maximilians-Universit?t, M?nchen 		 	   		  


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From antonio.jardim at gmail.com  Thu Jul 11 08:55:04 2013
From: antonio.jardim at gmail.com (Antonio Ferreira-Jardim)
Date: Thu, 11 Jul 13 18:55:04 +1000
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Digital Versions of PTS Texts?
In-Reply-To: <BAY175-W2455C177FE3AF61FEC582FBF7B0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <CAGDOqfrnufvE26zgkBV-MH3O1CwT=1Uv4Q31Z5JdetAst8LWbQ@mail.gmail.com>

Dear Charles,

The Dhammakaya temple group in Thailand have produced CD-ROMs of the
Pali Text Society editions. Successive versions of the electronic
editions have been called PaliText 1.0, 2.0 etc. I think the most
recent version is PaliText Version 2.6.

The initial version was academically assessed by Mark Allon here:

"An Assessment of the Dhammakaya CD-ROM: Palitext Version 1.0.?.
Buddhist Studies (Bukky? Kenky?) Vol. 26: (1997) pp.109?29.

The question of where they can be lawfully obtained outside of
Thailand is one for others I'm afraid.

Kind regards,
Antonio Ferreira-Jardim
Brisbane, Australia

On Thu, Jul 11, 2013 at 5:55 PM, DiSimone Charles <spootland at hotmail.com> wrote:
> Dear Friends and Colleagues,
>
> My research at present obliges me to check a Sanskrit manuscript against a
> Pali version of the 'same' text.  While there are many freely available
> online databases of the Pali Tipitaka (this age of technology is truly a
> wonderful time to be alive!), I have been using the Pali Text Society's
> editions for citation purposes.  Unfortunately, as far as I am aware, there
> is no digital version of the PTS Tipitaka one can search and copy/paste from
> for citation.  I asked the folk at the PTS if they make digital versions of
> their publications available (a PDF or something) and their response was
> that they do not.  I assume that this is to protect their intellectual
> property, which is perfectly reasonable.  Still, such a thing would be most
> useful to scholars.
>
> Has anyone ever set out to make a digital version of any of the Pali Text
> Society's editions from the Tipitaka?  Perhaps someone has typed up various
> texts into Word or text files or PDFs?  If anyone has, would be much obliged
> if they would be willing to share it with me.  I am most in need of the
> D?gha Nik?ya but would be appreciative of anything.
>
> I guess a corollary question to this topic would be, is such a thing even
> legal, strictly speaking?  I am of the mind that any digitalized versions of
> the PTS texts would be used by scholars for research and cited accordingly,
> thus constituting fair use.  However, if anyone has any insights on this
> regarding copyright law, I would be keen to hear.
>
> Thanks in advance for any help!
> Charlie
>
> --
> Charles DiSimone
> Promotionsprogramm Buddhismus-Studien
> Department of Indology and Tibetology
> Ludwig-Maximilians-Universit?t, M?nchen
>
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> http://listinfo.indology.info





From wujastyk at gmail.com  Thu Jul 11 13:38:54 2013
From: wujastyk at gmail.com (Dominik Wujastyk)
Date: Thu, 11 Jul 13 15:38:54 +0200
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Digital Versions of PTS Texts?
In-Reply-To: <CAGDOqfrnufvE26zgkBV-MH3O1CwT=1Uv4Q31Z5JdetAst8LWbQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAKdt-Cd-AuaucuHFXWeonqmcRc+_2XhXmGcL45ojLyAbua8p-w@mail.gmail.com>

http://www.amazon.com/books/dp/9748235874

?Legal or not, version 1.0 at least seems to have been distributed in the
USA and internationally.

DW?


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From hr at ivs.edu  Thu Jul 11 14:32:28 2013
From: hr at ivs.edu (Howard Resnick)
Date: Thu, 11 Jul 13 07:32:28 -0700
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Manu Smrti
Message-ID: <2BEB68BC-A6AD-4E3E-A044-D92C3EE153CF@ivs.edu>

You may already have this, but here is a link to Manu-smrti with six commentaries:

https://archive.org/details/manusmriti


Alternative link for dropbox:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/fkyvu5wqd8591jw/manusmriti_six_commentaries.pdf






From ssandahl at sympatico.ca  Thu Jul 11 16:21:50 2013
From: ssandahl at sympatico.ca (Stella Sandahl)
Date: Thu, 11 Jul 13 12:21:50 -0400
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Digital Versions of PTS Texts?
In-Reply-To: <CAKdt-Cd-AuaucuHFXWeonqmcRc+_2XhXmGcL45ojLyAbua8p-w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BLU0-SMTP772C1A0A6B0D4DCB7010F1BF7B0@phx.gbl>

Dear Dominik
Amazon here says:
Out of Print--Limited Availability.


So it looks like it is not longer available.
Stella
--
Stella Sandahl
ssandahl at sympatico.ca



On 2013-07-11, at 9:38 AM, Dominik Wujastyk wrote:

> http://www.amazon.com/books/dp/9748235874
> 
> ?Legal or not, version 1.0 at least seems to have been distributed in the USA and internationally.
> 
> DW?
> 
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> http://listinfo.indology.info



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From mmdesh at umich.edu  Fri Jul 12 14:14:57 2013
From: mmdesh at umich.edu (Madhav Deshpande)
Date: Fri, 12 Jul 13 10:14:57 -0400
Subject: =?utf-8?Q?[INDOLOGY]_pdf_of_Prayogap=C4=81rij=C4=81ta=3F?=
Message-ID: <CAB3-dze53tyhQbvd_i=demRfmcT9L+0q0e5TN84wwy_GkUJqug@mail.gmail.com>

Dear Indologists,

     Does anyone have access to a pdf of Prayogap?rij?ta, a ritual text,
which I believe was published in pothi form by Nirnayasagara Press.  I
would appreciate having such a pdf.  Best,

Madhav

-- 
Madhav M. Deshpande
Professor of Sanskrit and Linguistics
Department of Asian Languages and Cultures
202 South Thayer Street, Suite 6111
The University of Michigan
Ann Arbor, MI 48104-1608, USA


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From eastwestcultural at yahoo.com  Fri Jul 12 16:00:32 2013
From: eastwestcultural at yahoo.com (Dean Michael Anderson)
Date: Fri, 12 Jul 13 09:00:32 -0700
Subject: [INDOLOGY] painting on canvas?
In-Reply-To: <CAB3-dze53tyhQbvd_i=demRfmcT9L+0q0e5TN84wwy_GkUJqug@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1373644832.55639.YahooMailNeo@web125306.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>

Does anyone know the first recorded of painting canvas or cloth in India? When did it become popular?

Best,

Dean

Dean Michael Anderson
East West Cultural Institute


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From ugg-5 at spro.net  Fri Jul 12 18:06:47 2013
From: ugg-5 at spro.net (Jo)
Date: Fri, 12 Jul 13 12:06:47 -0600
Subject: [INDOLOGY] painting on canvas?
In-Reply-To: <1373644832.55639.YahooMailNeo@web125306.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <009501ce7f2a$9f8a5480$de9efd80$@spro.net>

See, Victor Mair. Painting and Performance: Chinese Picture Recitation and
its Indian Genesis. Honolulu: University of Hawaii Press. 1988. 

 

Joanna Kirkpatrick

 

 

From: INDOLOGY [mailto:indology-bounces at list.indology.info] On Behalf Of
Dean Michael Anderson
Sent: Friday, July 12, 2013 10:01 AM
To: Indology List
Subject: [INDOLOGY] painting on canvas?

 

Does anyone know the first recorded of painting canvas or cloth in India?
When did it become popular?

 

Best,

 

Dean

 

Dean Michael Anderson

East West Cultural Institute



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From dbhattacharya200498 at yahoo.com  Fri Jul 12 18:27:54 2013
From: dbhattacharya200498 at yahoo.com (Dipak Bhattacharya)
Date: Sat, 13 Jul 13 02:27:54 +0800
Subject: [INDOLOGY] painting on canvas?
In-Reply-To: <1373644832.55639.YahooMailNeo@web125306.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1373653674.53005.YahooMailNeo@web193501.mail.sg3.yahoo.com>

12 7 13 
I am no specialist on the history
of painting. From personal knowledge I may state that a collection of Mughal
oil paintings (reproduced in colored print) was published by the erstwhile
Soviet Union and made available in India in the late nineteen-fifties. They
were apparently influenced by contemporary ?continental renaissance painting. The painters
were not Indian but, perhaps Iranian as far as I remember. The original
paintings were not earlier than the seventeenth century. The themes were
secular, as far as I remember. The collection belonged to Pt. Karumnamay
Saraswati (1904-1977), a learned religious man of Calcutta with many devotees. 
Best
DB



________________________________
 From: Dean Michael Anderson <eastwestcultural at yahoo.com>
To: Indology List <indology at list.indology.info> 
Sent: Friday, 12 July 2013 9:30 PM
Subject: [INDOLOGY] painting on canvas?
 


Does anyone know the first recorded of painting canvas or cloth in India? When did it become popular?

Best,

Dean

Dean Michael Anderson
East West Cultural Institute
_______________________________________________
INDOLOGY mailing list
INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
http://listinfo.indology.info


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From dbhattacharya200498 at yahoo.com  Sat Jul 13 03:35:28 2013
From: dbhattacharya200498 at yahoo.com (Dipak Bhattacharya)
Date: Sat, 13 Jul 13 11:35:28 +0800
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Fw:  painting on canvas?
In-Reply-To: <1373685984.92831.YahooMailNeo@web193504.mail.sg3.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1373686528.87053.YahooMailNeo@web193506.mail.sg3.yahoo.com>




----- Forwarded Message -----
From: Dipak Bhattacharya <dbhattacharya200498 at yahoo.com>
To: Dean Michael Anderson <eastwestcultural at yahoo.com>; Indology List <indology at list.indology.info> 
Sent: Saturday, 13 July 2013 8:56 AM
Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] painting on canvas?
 


13 07 13

In continuation.
If water-colour too is meant pa?a is an old term meaning a
piece of cloth. ?Traditional painters on
pa?as are known as pa?ua. Painters earning by exhibiting
painted canvas are mentioned in the Mudr?r?k?asa.? 


Best

DB


________________________________
 From: Dean Michael Anderson <eastwestcultural at yahoo.com>
To: Indology List <indology at list.indology.info> 
Sent: Friday, 12 July 2013 9:30 PM
Subject: [INDOLOGY] painting on canvas?
 


Does anyone know the first recorded of painting canvas or cloth in India? When did it become popular?

Best,

Dean

Dean Michael Anderson
East West Cultural Institute
_______________________________________________
INDOLOGY mailing list
INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
http://listinfo.indology.info


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From narenthiran.r at ifpindia.org  Sat Jul 13 07:01:44 2013
From: narenthiran.r at ifpindia.org (Narenderan)
Date: Sat, 13 Jul 13 12:31:44 +0530
Subject: [INDOLOGY] New Book information
In-Reply-To: <51E0FA5E.1090504@ifpindia.org>
Message-ID: <51E0FB58.2030307@ifpindia.org>



Dear all,

South Asian religions tradition and today / edited by Karen Pechilis and 
Selva J. Raj 
<http://catalogue.nla.gov.au/Record/6249534?lookfor=%28hinduism%29%20AND%20%28date:[2013%20TO%202013]%29&offset=9&max=11>
London ; New York : Routledge, 2013 , ?2013

Price: *$118.75* (Print version)
Kindle Price (INR): *Rs. 1,141.48*

Contents

  *   In a shared world: Selva J. Raj and the study of religion / Karen
    Pechilis
  * Tribal religions in India: practicing tradition today / Joseph
    Marianus Kujur
  * Hinduism: practicing tradition today / Nasudha Narayanan
  * Jain traditions: practicing tradition today / M. Whitney Kelting
  * Buddhism in South Asia: practicing tradition today / Sunil Goonasekera
  * South Asian Judaisms: practicing tradition today / Nathan Katz
  * South Asian Christianity: practicing tradition today / M. Thomas
    Thangaraj
  * Islam in South Asia: practicing tradition today / Karen G. Ruffle
  * Sikhism: practicing tradition today / Pashaura Singh.


   Thanks

-- 
Narenthiran. R
Librarian
French Institute of Pondicherry
11, Saint Louis Street
P.B.33, Pondicherry 605001





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From baums at lmu.de  Sat Jul 13 12:22:07 2013
From: baums at lmu.de (Stefan Baums)
Date: Sat, 13 Jul 13 14:22:07 +0200
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Ph.D. position in Munich
Message-ID: <20130713122207.GO3314@deepthought>

Dear friends and colleagues,

the University of Munich has the following job opening for a Ph.D.
student in the project Buddhist Manuscripts from Gandh?ra:

   http://www.uni-muenchen.de/aktuelles/stellenangebote/wissenschaft/20130701132222.html
   http://www.en.gandhara.indologie.uni-muenchen.de/news/job_programmer_phd/index.html

Please pass this information on to anybody who might be
interested. The application deadline is 31 July 2013.

All best wishes,
Stefan Baums

-- 
Dr. Stefan Baums
Institute for Indian and Tibetan Studies
Ludwig Maximilian University of Munich





From cristinamuru78 at hotmail.com  Sat Jul 13 16:14:46 2013
From: cristinamuru78 at hotmail.com (cristina hotmail)
Date: Sat, 13 Jul 13 18:14:46 +0200
Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_[INDOLOGY]=09[ctamil]_Jeanne_Hein_passed_away_=E2=80=A6?=
In-Reply-To: <B738B090-8D79-42D3-9AEA-071959B84B0C@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <669A8755-0C39-4FA8-B236-D1822FFBA1B8@hotmail.com>

Dear Prof. Rajam,

I am deeply touched to learn of the passing of Mrs Jeanne Hein. I never met her and I only was in touch with you through mail, but I kindly ask you and her family to accept my most sincere condolence and deepest sympathy on this big loss. 
I am glad that you were able to publish your precious book on Henriques, and I can only say thank you to you both for the valuable contribution you gave to Tamil scientific community with your work.

Kind Regards,

Cristina Muru



Il giorno 10/lug/2013, alle ore 01:11, Rajam ha scritto:

> Friends, 
> 
> My apologies for the cross-posting but I thought it is alright at the moment, given the nature of the information. 
> 
> It is with deep sadness I report the passing away of Mrs. Jeanne Hein, wife of Professor Emeritus Norvin Hein (Yale) and my friend-collabortaor of the book we recently published, "The Earliest Missionary Grammar of Tamil" by Harvard University Press. Jeanne was suffering from the Alzheimer's for the past four years, and passed away at the age of 94 on Saturday (July 6) night at home in Bethany, New Haven, and was at peace, as anyone would wish. Services are on Saturday, July 20th. 
> 
> The knowledge of the old 16-th Century Latin and Portuguese, Early Missionaries and Church History in India, etc., etc., ? all accumulated in her smart brain is all gone now. There's no one now to tell us about it any more. Thankfully, we have captured a small amount in our book. I have no words to express the pain of my loss. 
> 
> With regards,
> V. S. Rajam  
> 
> 
> 

Dr. Cristina Muru
Dip. DISTU
University of Tuscia, VT
Italy
tel. +39.0761.357632
http://www.unitusdistu.net






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From eastwestcultural at yahoo.com  Sun Jul 14 15:24:33 2013
From: eastwestcultural at yahoo.com (Dean Michael Anderson)
Date: Sun, 14 Jul 13 08:24:33 -0700
Subject: [INDOLOGY] painting on canvas?
In-Reply-To: <1373685984.92831.YahooMailNeo@web193504.mail.sg3.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1373815473.7782.YahooMailNeo@web125302.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>

Thanks for all the replies. Dipak?s mention of the Mudr?r?k?asa is dated at the
4th century CE at the earliest. The word for cloth he mentions is the
same one I was interested in: pa?a.

Joseph pushes it a bit farther back to the first or second century CE,
although that?s still a bit later than what I was hoping for.

It may be I'll have to translate it only as 'cloth' and not 'canvas'.


Best,

Dean


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From kauzeya at gmail.com  Sun Jul 14 15:43:11 2013
From: kauzeya at gmail.com (Jonathan Silk)
Date: Sun, 14 Jul 13 23:43:11 +0800
Subject: [INDOLOGY] painting on canvas?
In-Reply-To: <1373815473.7782.YahooMailNeo@web125302.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <CAMGmO4LDxfqdRJePFrSJ8vPdgF5YcObqLeVA77J4Pyo1rTpwrw@mail.gmail.com>

You might also want to take a look at (I hope this was not mentioned
before; I'm sorry I was not paying attention):

Weaving the World: The Ritual Art of the "Pa?a" in Pala Buddhism and Its
Legacy in Tibet
Matthew Kapstein
History of Religions
Vol. 34, No. 3, Image and Ritual in Buddhism (Feb., 1995), pp. 241-262

Jonathan
On Sun, Jul 14, 2013 at 11:24 PM, Dean Michael Anderson <
eastwestcultural at yahoo.com> wrote:

> Thanks for all the replies. Dipak?s mention of the Mudr?r?k?asa is dated
> at the 4th century CE at the earliest. The word for cloth he mentions is
> the same one I was interested in: pa?a.
>
> Joseph pushes it a bit farther back to the first or second century CE,
> although that?s still a bit later than what I was hoping for.
>
> It may be I'll have to translate it only as 'cloth' and not 'canvas'.
>
> Best,
>
> Dean
>
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> http://listinfo.indology.info
>



-- 
J. Silk
Instituut Kern / Universiteit Leiden
Leiden University Institute for Area Studies, LIAS
Johan Huizinga Building, Room 1.37
Doelensteeg 16
2311 VL Leiden
The Netherlands

copies of my publications may be found at
http://www.buddhismandsocialjustice.com/silk_publications.html


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From ugg-5 at spro.net  Sun Jul 14 16:25:16 2013
From: ugg-5 at spro.net (Jo)
Date: Sun, 14 Jul 13 10:25:16 -0600
Subject: [INDOLOGY] painting on canvas?
In-Reply-To: <CAMGmO4LDxfqdRJePFrSJ8vPdgF5YcObqLeVA77J4Pyo1rTpwrw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <008c01ce80ae$b9e4d690$2dae83b0$@spro.net>

Could someone kindly send me a pdf of this article by Kapstein?

Thanks

Joanna Kirkpatrick.

 

From: INDOLOGY [mailto:indology-bounces at list.indology.info] On Behalf Of Jonathan Silk
Sent: Sunday, July 14, 2013 9:43 AM
To: Dean Michael Anderson
Cc: Indology List
Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] painting on canvas?

 

You might also want to take a look at (I hope this was not mentioned before; I'm sorry I was not paying attention):

 


Weaving the World: The Ritual Art of the "Pa?a" in Pala Buddhism and Its Legacy in Tibet


Matthew Kapstein

History of Religions
Vol. 34, No. 3, Image and Ritual in Buddhism (Feb., 1995), pp. 241-262


Jonathan

On Sun, Jul 14, 2013 at 11:24 PM, Dean Michael Anderson <eastwestcultural at yahoo.com> wrote:

Thanks for all the replies. Dipak?s mention of the Mudr?r?k?asa is dated at the 4th century CE at the earliest. The word for cloth he mentions is the same one I was interested in: pa?a.

 

Joseph pushes it a bit farther back to the first or second century CE, although that?s still a bit later than what I was hoping for.

 

It may be I'll have to translate it only as 'cloth' and not 'canvas'.

 

Best,

 

Dean


_______________________________________________
INDOLOGY mailing list
INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
http://listinfo.indology.info





 

-- 

J. Silk
Instituut Kern / Universiteit Leiden

Leiden University Institute for Area Studies, LIAS

Johan Huizinga Building, Room 1.37

Doelensteeg 16

2311 VL Leiden

The Netherlands

 

copies of my publications may be found at

http://www.buddhismandsocialjustice.com/silk_publications.html



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From dbhattacharya200498 at yahoo.com  Sun Jul 14 18:14:02 2013
From: dbhattacharya200498 at yahoo.com (Dipak Bhattacharya)
Date: Mon, 15 Jul 13 02:14:02 +0800
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Fw:  painting on canvas?
In-Reply-To: <1373818843.81026.YahooMailNeo@web193504.mail.sg3.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1373825642.57118.YahooMailNeo@web193505.mail.sg3.yahoo.com>

I tried to send this twice and failed. Failure of delivery was reported
DB
 
----- Forwarded Message -----
From: Dipak Bhattacharya <dbhattacharya200498 at yahoo.com>
To: Dean Michael Anderson <eastwestcultural at yahoo.com>; Joseph <Joseph.Walser at tufts.edu>; "indology at list.indology.info" <indology at list.indology.info> 
Sent: Sunday, 14 July 2013 9:50 PM
Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] painting on canvas?
  



 

________________________________
 From: Dipak Bhattacharya <dbhattacharya200498 at yahoo.com>
To: Dean Michael Anderson <eastwestcultural at yahoo.com>; Indology List <indology at list.indology.info>; Joseph <Joseph.Walser at tufts.edu> 
Sent: Sunday, 14 July 2013 9:28 PM
Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] painting on canvas?
  


I remember a few more instances See sakuntala 6th act for her picture on a board. But this will not do. You cannot depend on others and?have yourself to rummage particularly thru popular literature, also kautilya for writing on a canvas which i cannot quote at present. Kosambi (Introd. Ind Hist)?deals at length with that.??Perhaps the Panchatantra and the Jaatakas will help.
DB
 

________________________________
 From: Dean Michael Anderson <eastwestcultural at yahoo.com>
To: Dipak Bhattacharya <dbhattacharya200498 at yahoo.com>; Indology List <indology at list.indology.info>; Joseph <Joseph.Walser at tufts.edu> 
Sent: Sunday, 14 July 2013 8:54 PM
Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] painting on canvas?
  


Thanks for all the replies. Dipak?s mention of the Mudr?r?k?asa is dated at the
4th century CE at the earliest. The word for cloth he mentions is the
same one I was interested in: pa?a.
 
Joseph pushes it a bit farther back to the first or second century CE,
although that?s still a bit later than what I was hoping for.

It may be I'll have to translate it only as 'cloth' and not 'canvas'.

 
Best,
 
Dean 


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From wujastyk at gmail.com  Sun Jul 14 18:26:15 2013
From: wujastyk at gmail.com (Dominik Wujastyk)
Date: Sun, 14 Jul 13 20:26:15 +0200
Subject: [INDOLOGY] SARIT addition
Message-ID: <CAKdt-CfJpNhB-hEtwBE5jVF4y8=VYPKKd02t4uKRh6rS+DrNZw@mail.gmail.com>

   - ??The A???vakrag?t?<http://sarit.indology.info/newphilo/navigate.pl?indologica.8>,
   e-text entered by Suryamshu Ray based on the 1971 Lucknow edition.


?DW
SARIT?


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From james.hartzell at gmail.com  Mon Jul 15 07:37:43 2013
From: james.hartzell at gmail.com (James Hartzell)
Date: Mon, 15 Jul 13 09:37:43 +0200
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Shukla Yajurveda word count
Message-ID: <CAKA8X43SgmQtBUX3S4HYR9-zcRy0H1=7v757Lam7n_oQ6RsK+w@mail.gmail.com>

Dear Colleagues

Might someone have access to an accurate word count of the Shukla Yajurveda
(Madhyandina recension)?

Cheers

James Hartzell, PhD
Center for Mind/Brain Sciences (CIMeC)
The University of Trento, Italy


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From gthomgt at gmail.com  Mon Jul 15 20:32:37 2013
From: gthomgt at gmail.com (George Thompson)
Date: Mon, 15 Jul 13 16:32:37 -0400
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Fwd:  What's "Vedic"?
In-Reply-To: <CAP1Y1zth5_NFTdnt3gZuGG6Cfb0b2TYEOHSOkUQpDm630vB5eQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAP1Y1zsNcW9MvBwQXQFpOa9mNc8dZW5hQpRSWregpKONRa0Psw@mail.gmail.com>

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: George Thompson <gthomgt at gmail.com>
Date: Mon, Jul 15, 2013 at 4:29 PM
Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] What's "Vedic"?
To: Jarrod Whitaker <whitakjl at wfu.edu>


Dear Jarrod,

I've been very busy with other things, but I want to add another response
to your question, just in order to keep your thread going.  I think that it
is a discussion worth having.

I myself do not spend much time any more worrying about Vedic dates. Vedic
texts are oral texts that grew by accretion over many generations.  The
earliest historical evidence for a Vedic language is roughly 1300 BCE, in
the Mitanni texts, where there is clear evidence of a linguistic split
between Old Indic and Old Iranian.  So I would hesitate to say that
Vedic is older than 1300 BCE, for lack of any historical evidence of it.

Also, Iranists, as far as I know [I haven't kept up with the most recent
research there], do not consider the dialect of the Gathas [oldest Iranian
text] to be very old.  There is also an Old Avestan text, independent of
the Gathas, the Yasna Haptangaiti, which is remarkable for preserving
ritual formulaic mantras that are very reminiscent of RV formulaic
mantras.  These comparisons with Old Avestan texts suggest that Old Vedic
[RV, etc], are of a comparable date with these Old Avestan texts: fairly
late.

But we are comparing many things, none of which have firm dates.

I say: let it go.  We don't have firm dates.  We can only give very
approximate ones.

But like Jarrod and Howard I would like to hear the views of others.

On the other hand, our first historical evidence  of writing in India is
mid-third cent. BCE [the Asokan edicts].  These edicts are written in a
post-Vedic, and even a post-Sanskrit, dialect.  We may assume, of course,
that good Vedic was still spoken at that time in some quarters, and of
course good Sanskrit was too, but it was a different Sanskrit than the Old
Vedic Sanskrit of the Rgveda, by many centuries.

This is the framework that I would work within, in terms of dating Vedic
texts.  I don't count later
commentaries on earlier Vedic texts as "Vedic" if they don't exhibit the
linguistic features of clearly Vedic texts.

For this reason the Sanskrit epic texts, as we have them, are all clearly
later than all Vedic texts, also as we have them.

Earliest Buddhist texts, in Pali, also oral, are clearly post-Vedic as well.

So, by mid-3rd century BCE nobody, as far as I can tell, was producing
genuine "Vedic" texts.

My best wishes, with the hope that this helps.

George Thompson
On Mon, Jul 8, 2013 at 12:17 PM, Jarrod Whitaker <whitakjl at wfu.edu> wrote:

> Dear Colleagues:
> I need some friendly help and criticism. I am currently writing an article
> on warfare in "Ancient India" (1500 BCE-600 CE) and because I need to break
> up different periods, I am having trouble settling on dates and labels.
> Here is the paragraph I have written:
>
> "I will delineate four heuristically useful, but rather arbitrary
> historical periods: 1) the early Vedic period, 1500-1000 BCE (represented
> by the R?gveda and parts of the Atharvaveda, and involving pastoral
> migrations and limited permanent settlement of the ?ryan tribes in the
> north and northwestern parts of the Subcontinent); 2) the
> middle-"classical" Vedic period, 1000-500 BCE (represented by the
> Yajurveda, Br?hma?as, early Upani?ads, and involving a transition from
> pastoralism to permanent territorial control, the rise of systematic class
> stratification that is realized through complex ritual, social, and
> political relationships, and ending with the rise of city states across the
> Indo-Gangetic Plain); 3) the late Vedic period, 500 BCE to 1 CE
> (represented by late Upani?ads, S?tra-??stra (smr?ti) texts and the Epics,
> and encompassing the rise of the Mauryan dynasty [300-185 BCE], and the
> rise of heterodox ascetic movements; namely Buddhism and Jainism); and 4)
> early "historical" period, 1?550 CE (represented by Epics, further ??stra
> literature, earliest P?ra?as, and involving the rise of Bhakti devotional
> movements, and ending with the collapse of the Gupta Dynasty [300-550 CE])."
>
> I realize my use of "Vedic" is broader than usual (my dates are of course
> designed to break up the article into clear, manageable sections). Many
> sources want to end the "Vedic period" with roughly the 2nd Urbanization,
> which is equated with the Upanisads as "Ved?nta"/?ruti (see Example*
> below). The term "Ved?nta" is of course an emic concept that closes the
> "sacred canon" and hence "Vedic" is often synonymous with ?ruti. But the
> use of the term certainly doesn't end the production of extensive texts on
> Brahmanical values, customs, rituals, and ideologies/theologies. If "Vedic"
> is synonymous with "Brahmanical", then Smrti literature and the epics would
> be no less "Vedic" than ?ruti literature These issues become further
> complicated when we factor in a broad separation of early and late
> Upanisads, the composition of early and late ?rauta and Grhya literature,
> and include Bronkhorst's recent work, which throws a sizable wrench in the
> works (or spanner, depending on your current geography) as his argument
> would push some of the middle/classical Vedic period into my late Vedic
> period. (I also don't want to imply that Vedic texts and practices somehow
> disappear at 1 CE, because I no longer use the label "Vedic" in the above
> paragraph for the Common Era.)
>
> Anyway, I am happy to take suggestions here for inventive and/or
> authoritative ways to think through this. And since I would rather pin my
> dates on someone else (always good to lay blame elsewhere), is there a
> recent "up-to-date" source that offers a reliable and/or reasonable insight
> into these issues, while designating some broad historical periods?
>
> Perhaps we could compile over this list a general impression about the
> labels, relative chronology, timeframes/dates, and issues that you use with
> your students and in publication (including the sources to which you
> default).
>
> Perhaps the key problem is trying to come up with neat historical boxes
> for a general audience...
>
> Cheers
> Jarrod
>
> Example*
> Here is an example of two different frameworks from Erdosy (1995):
> Allchin: Pre-Vedic Indo-Aryan migration (2000 BCE), Vedic Aryan migration
> (1750-1500 BCE). Early Vedic (1750-1500 BCE), (Middle) Vedic (1500-1000
> BCE), and Late Vedic period (1000-600 BCE).
>
> Erdosy (same volume): Early Iron Age (c.1000-600 BCE) for material culture
> and Late Vedic for literature in the same period.) Early Historic or Second
> Urbanization (c.600-300 BCE), and Post-Vedic (c.600 BCE-300 CE).
>
> Jarrod Whitaker, Ph.D.
> Associate Professor, South Asian Religions
> Zachary T. Smith Faculty Fellow
> Graduate Program Director
>
> Wake Forest University
> Department of Religion
> P.O. Box 7212
> Winston-Salem, NC 27109
> whitakjl at wfu.edu
> p 336.758.4162
>
> ______________________________**_________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> http://listinfo.indology.info


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From glhart at berkeley.edu  Mon Jul 15 20:51:37 2013
From: glhart at berkeley.edu (George Hart)
Date: Mon, 15 Jul 13 13:51:37 -0700
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Fwd:  What's "Vedic"?
In-Reply-To: <CAP1Y1zsNcW9MvBwQXQFpOa9mNc8dZW5hQpRSWregpKONRa0Psw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <349D1909-272A-4477-B5CE-C2F75EB5A814@berkeley.edu>

It appears the earliest writing may date from before the Asokan inscriptions, and, strangely, is in the far south.  See

http://www.thehindu.com/features/friday-review/history-and-culture/kodumanal-excavation-yields-a-bonanza-again/article3463120.ece

George Hart

On Jul 15, 2013, at 1:32 PM, George Thompson <gthomgt at gmail.com> wrote:

> 
> 
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: George Thompson <gthomgt at gmail.com>
> Date: Mon, Jul 15, 2013 at 4:29 PM
> Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] What's "Vedic"?
> To: Jarrod Whitaker <whitakjl at wfu.edu>
> 
> 
> Dear Jarrod,
> 
> I've been very busy with other things, but I want to add another response to your question, just in order to keep your thread going.  I think that it is a discussion worth having.
>  
> I myself do not spend much time any more worrying about Vedic dates. Vedic texts are oral texts that grew by accretion over many generations.  The earliest historical evidence for a Vedic language is roughly 1300 BCE, in the Mitanni texts, where there is clear evidence of a linguistic split between Old Indic and Old Iranian.  So I would hesitate to say that Vedic is older than 1300 BCE, for lack of any historical evidence of it.
>  
> Also, Iranists, as far as I know [I haven't kept up with the most recent research there], do not consider the dialect of the Gathas [oldest Iranian text] to be very old.  There is also an Old Avestan text, independent of the Gathas, the Yasna Haptangaiti, which is remarkable for preserving ritual formulaic mantras that are very reminiscent of RV formulaic mantras.  These comparisons with Old Avestan texts suggest that Old Vedic [RV, etc], are of a comparable date with these Old Avestan texts: fairly late.
>  
> But we are comparing many things, none of which have firm dates.
>  
> I say: let it go.  We don't have firm dates.  We can only give very approximate ones.
>  
> But like Jarrod and Howard I would like to hear the views of others.
>  
> On the other hand, our first historical evidence  of writing in India is mid-third cent. BCE [the Asokan edicts].  These edicts are written in a post-Vedic, and even a post-Sanskrit, dialect.  We may assume, of course, that good Vedic was still spoken at that time in some quarters, and of course good Sanskrit was too, but it was a different Sanskrit than the Old Vedic Sanskrit of the Rgveda, by many centuries.
>  
> This is the framework that I would work within, in terms of dating Vedic texts.  I don't count later
> commentaries on earlier Vedic texts as "Vedic" if they don't exhibit the linguistic features of clearly Vedic texts. 
>  
> For this reason the Sanskrit epic texts, as we have them, are all clearly later than all Vedic texts, also as we have them. 
>  
> Earliest Buddhist texts, in Pali, also oral, are clearly post-Vedic as well.
>  
> So, by mid-3rd century BCE nobody, as far as I can tell, was producing genuine "Vedic" texts.
>  
> My best wishes, with the hope that this helps.
>  
> George Thompson
> On Mon, Jul 8, 2013 at 12:17 PM, Jarrod Whitaker <whitakjl at wfu.edu> wrote:
> Dear Colleagues:
> I need some friendly help and criticism. I am currently writing an article on warfare in "Ancient India" (1500 BCE-600 CE) and because I need to break up different periods, I am having trouble settling on dates and labels. Here is the paragraph I have written:
> 
> "I will delineate four heuristically useful, but rather arbitrary historical periods: 1) the early Vedic period, 1500-1000 BCE (represented by the R?gveda and parts of the Atharvaveda, and involving pastoral migrations and limited permanent settlement of the ?ryan tribes in the north and northwestern parts of the Subcontinent); 2) the middle-"classical" Vedic period, 1000-500 BCE (represented by the Yajurveda, Br?hma?as, early Upani?ads, and involving a transition from pastoralism to permanent territorial control, the rise of systematic class stratification that is realized through complex ritual, social, and political relationships, and ending with the rise of city states across the Indo-Gangetic Plain); 3) the late Vedic period, 500 BCE to 1 CE (represented by late Upani?ads, S?tra-??stra (smr?ti) texts and the Epics, and encompassing the rise of the Mauryan dynasty [300-185 BCE], and the rise of heterodox ascetic movements; namely Buddhism and Jainism); and 4) early "historical" period, 1?550 CE (represented by Epics, further ??stra literature, earliest P?ra?as, and involving the rise of Bhakti devotional movements, and ending with the collapse of the Gupta Dynasty [300-550 CE])."
> 
> I realize my use of "Vedic" is broader than usual (my dates are of course designed to break up the article into clear, manageable sections). Many sources want to end the "Vedic period" with roughly the 2nd Urbanization, which is equated with the Upanisads as "Ved?nta"/?ruti (see Example* below). The term "Ved?nta" is of course an emic concept that closes the "sacred canon" and hence "Vedic" is often synonymous with ?ruti. But the use of the term certainly doesn't end the production of extensive texts on Brahmanical values, customs, rituals, and ideologies/theologies. If "Vedic" is synonymous with "Brahmanical", then Smrti literature and the epics would be no less "Vedic" than ?ruti literature These issues become further complicated when we factor in a broad separation of early and late Upanisads, the composition of early and late ?rauta and Grhya literature, and include Bronkhorst's recent work, which throws a sizable wrench in the works (or spanner, depending on your current geography) as his argument would push some of the middle/classical Vedic period into my late Vedic period. (I also don't want to imply that Vedic texts and practices somehow disappear at 1 CE, because I no longer use the label "Vedic" in the above paragraph for the Common Era.)
> 
> Anyway, I am happy to take suggestions here for inventive and/or authoritative ways to think through this. And since I would rather pin my dates on someone else (always good to lay blame elsewhere), is there a recent "up-to-date" source that offers a reliable and/or reasonable insight into these issues, while designating some broad historical periods?
> 
> Perhaps we could compile over this list a general impression about the labels, relative chronology, timeframes/dates, and issues that you use with your students and in publication (including the sources to which you default).
> 
> Perhaps the key problem is trying to come up with neat historical boxes for a general audience...
> 
> Cheers
> Jarrod
> 
> Example*
> Here is an example of two different frameworks from Erdosy (1995):
> Allchin: Pre-Vedic Indo-Aryan migration (2000 BCE), Vedic Aryan migration (1750-1500 BCE). Early Vedic (1750-1500 BCE), (Middle) Vedic (1500-1000 BCE), and Late Vedic period (1000-600 BCE).
> 
> Erdosy (same volume): Early Iron Age (c.1000-600 BCE) for material culture and Late Vedic for literature in the same period.) Early Historic or Second Urbanization (c.600-300 BCE), and Post-Vedic (c.600 BCE-300 CE).
> 
> Jarrod Whitaker, Ph.D.
> Associate Professor, South Asian Religions
> Zachary T. Smith Faculty Fellow
> Graduate Program Director
> 
> Wake Forest University
> Department of Religion
> P.O. Box 7212
> Winston-Salem, NC 27109
> whitakjl at wfu.edu
> p 336.758.4162
> 
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> http://listinfo.indology.info
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> http://listinfo.indology.info



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From hr at ivs.edu  Mon Jul 15 22:12:41 2013
From: hr at ivs.edu (Howard Resnick)
Date: Mon, 15 Jul 13 15:12:41 -0700
Subject: [INDOLOGY] question
Message-ID: <BA8FA1FD-4736-409B-94BA-382BCA34BC70@ivs.edu>

In Bhagavad-gita 10.35, Krsna says, "Of sAmans, I am bRhat-sAman?"

Could someone kindly explain exactly what the bRhat-sAman is? 

Thanks!
Howard




From gthomgt at gmail.com  Tue Jul 16 00:07:28 2013
From: gthomgt at gmail.com (George Thompson)
Date: Mon, 15 Jul 13 20:07:28 -0400
Subject: [INDOLOGY] What's "Vedic"?
In-Reply-To: <CAP1Y1zsNcW9MvBwQXQFpOa9mNc8dZW5hQpRSWregpKONRa0Psw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAP1Y1zuAmeAJmpw7BbSfEsP3x0sik10fdS6CRDNw2W0+O_3_aA@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Jul 15, 2013 at 4:32 PM, George Thompson <gthomgt at gmail.com> wrote:

>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: George Thompson <gthomgt at gmail.com>
> Date: Mon, Jul 15, 2013 at 4:29 PM
> Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] What's "Vedic"?
> To: Jarrod Whitaker <whitakjl at wfu.edu>
>
>
> Dear Jarrod,
>
> I've been very busy with other things, but I want to add another response
> to your question, just in order to keep your thread going.  I think that it
> is a discussion worth having.
>
> I myself do not spend much time any more worrying about Vedic dates. Vedic
> texts are oral texts that grew by accretion over many generations.  The
> earliest historical evidence for a Vedic language is roughly 1300 BCE, in
> the Mitanni texts, where there is clear evidence of a linguistic split
> between Old Indic and Old Iranian.  So I would hesitate to say that
> Vedic is older than 1300 BCE, for lack of any historical evidence of it.
>
> Also, Iranists, as far as I know [I haven't kept up with the most recent
> research there], do not consider the dialect of the Gathas [oldest Iranian
> text] to be very old.  There is also an Old Avestan text, independent of
> the Gathas, the Yasna Haptangaiti, which is remarkable for preserving
> ritual formulaic mantras that are very reminiscent of RV formulaic
> mantras.  These comparisons with Old Avestan texts suggest that Old Vedic
> [RV, etc], are of a comparable date with these Old Avestan texts: fairly
> late.
>
> But we are comparing many things, none of which have firm dates.
>
> I say: let it go.  We don't have firm dates.  We can only give very
> approximate ones.
>
> But like Jarrod and Howard I would like to hear the views of others.
>
> On the other hand, our first historical evidence  of writing in India is
> mid-third cent. BCE [the Asokan edicts].  These edicts are written in a
> post-Vedic, and even a post-Sanskrit, dialect.  We may assume, of course,
> that good Vedic was still spoken at that time in some quarters, and of
> course good Sanskrit was too, but it was a different Sanskrit than the Old
> Vedic Sanskrit of the Rgveda, by many centuries.
>
> This is the framework that I would work within, in terms of dating Vedic
> texts.  I don't count later
> commentaries on earlier Vedic texts as "Vedic" if they don't exhibit the
> linguistic features of clearly Vedic texts.
>
> For this reason the Sanskrit epic texts, as we have them, are all clearly
> later than all Vedic texts, also as we have them.
>
> Earliest Buddhist texts, in Pali, also oral, are clearly post-Vedic as
> well.
>
> So, by mid-3rd century BCE nobody, as far as I can tell, was producing
> genuine "Vedic" texts.
>
> My best wishes, with the hope that this helps.
>
> George Thompson
> On Mon, Jul 8, 2013 at 12:17 PM, Jarrod Whitaker <whitakjl at wfu.edu> wrote:
>
>> Dear Colleagues:
>> I need some friendly help and criticism. I am currently writing an
>> article on warfare in "Ancient India" (1500 BCE-600 CE) and because I need
>> to break up different periods, I am having trouble settling on dates and
>> labels. Here is the paragraph I have written:
>>
>> "I will delineate four heuristically useful, but rather arbitrary
>> historical periods: 1) the early Vedic period, 1500-1000 BCE (represented
>> by the R?gveda and parts of the Atharvaveda, and involving pastoral
>> migrations and limited permanent settlement of the ?ryan tribes in the
>> north and northwestern parts of the Subcontinent); 2) the
>> middle-"classical" Vedic period, 1000-500 BCE (represented by the
>> Yajurveda, Br?hma?as, early Upani?ads, and involving a transition from
>> pastoralism to permanent territorial control, the rise of systematic class
>> stratification that is realized through complex ritual, social, and
>> political relationships, and ending with the rise of city states across the
>> Indo-Gangetic Plain); 3) the late Vedic period, 500 BCE to 1 CE
>> (represented by late Upani?ads, S?tra-??stra (smr?ti) texts and the Epics,
>> and encompassing the rise of the Mauryan dynasty [300-185 BCE], and the
>> rise of heterodox ascetic movements; namely Buddhism and Jainism); and 4)
>> early "historical" period, 1?550 CE (represented by Epics, further ??stra
>> literature, earliest P?ra?as, and involving the rise of Bhakti devotional
>> movements, and ending with the collapse of the Gupta Dynasty [300-550 CE])."
>>
>> I realize my use of "Vedic" is broader than usual (my dates are of course
>> designed to break up the article into clear, manageable sections). Many
>> sources want to end the "Vedic period" with roughly the 2nd Urbanization,
>> which is equated with the Upanisads as "Ved?nta"/?ruti (see Example*
>> below). The term "Ved?nta" is of course an emic concept that closes the
>> "sacred canon" and hence "Vedic" is often synonymous with ?ruti. But the
>> use of the term certainly doesn't end the production of extensive texts on
>> Brahmanical values, customs, rituals, and ideologies/theologies. If "Vedic"
>> is synonymous with "Brahmanical", then Smrti literature and the epics would
>> be no less "Vedic" than ?ruti literature These issues become further
>> complicated when we factor in a broad separation of early and late
>> Upanisads, the composition of early and late ?rauta and Grhya literature,
>> and include Bronkhorst's recent work, which throws a sizable wrench in the
>> works (or spanner, depending on your current geography) as his argument
>> would push some of the middle/classical Vedic period into my late Vedic
>> period. (I also don't want to imply that Vedic texts and practices somehow
>> disappear at 1 CE, because I no longer use the label "Vedic" in the above
>> paragraph for the Common Era.)
>>
>> Anyway, I am happy to take suggestions here for inventive and/or
>> authoritative ways to think through this. And since I would rather pin my
>> dates on someone else (always good to lay blame elsewhere), is there a
>> recent "up-to-date" source that offers a reliable and/or reasonable insight
>> into these issues, while designating some broad historical periods?
>>
>> Perhaps we could compile over this list a general impression about the
>> labels, relative chronology, timeframes/dates, and issues that you use with
>> your students and in publication (including the sources to which you
>> default).
>>
>> Perhaps the key problem is trying to come up with neat historical boxes
>> for a general audience...
>>
>> Cheers
>> Jarrod
>>
>> Example*
>> Here is an example of two different frameworks from Erdosy (1995):
>> Allchin: Pre-Vedic Indo-Aryan migration (2000 BCE), Vedic Aryan migration
>> (1750-1500 BCE). Early Vedic (1750-1500 BCE), (Middle) Vedic (1500-1000
>> BCE), and Late Vedic period (1000-600 BCE).
>>
>> Erdosy (same volume): Early Iron Age (c.1000-600 BCE) for material
>> culture and Late Vedic for literature in the same period.) Early Historic
>> or Second Urbanization (c.600-300 BCE), and Post-Vedic (c.600 BCE-300 CE).
>>
>> Jarrod Whitaker, Ph.D.
>> Associate Professor, South Asian Religions
>> Zachary T. Smith Faculty Fellow
>> Graduate Program Director
>>
>> Wake Forest University
>> Department of Religion
>> P.O. Box 7212
>> Winston-Salem, NC 27109
>> whitakjl at wfu.edu
>> p 336.758.4162
>>
>> ______________________________**_________________
>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>> http://listinfo.indology.info
>
>
>
>


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From dbhattacharya200498 at yahoo.com  Tue Jul 16 09:09:44 2013
From: dbhattacharya200498 at yahoo.com (Dipak Bhattacharya)
Date: Tue, 16 Jul 13 17:09:44 +0800
Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_[INDOLOGY]_question_on_B=E1=B9=9Bhat_s=C4=81man?=
In-Reply-To: <BA8FA1FD-4736-409B-94BA-382BCA34BC70@ivs.edu>
Message-ID: <1373965784.11086.YahooMailNeo@web193505.mail.sg3.yahoo.com>

B?hat and Rathantara are considered two important s?mans in
the Pa?cavi??abr?hma?a. B?hat
is based on RV.6.46.1,2. See PB 5.1.10ff, 5.2.1,8.9.11 etc.
Best
DB
?
 

________________________________
 From: Howard Resnick <hr at ivs.edu>
To: Indology List <indology at list.indology.info> 
Sent: Tuesday, 16 July 2013 3:42 AM
Subject: [INDOLOGY] question
  

In Bhagavad-gita 10.35, Krsna says, "Of sAmans, I am bRhat-sAman?"

Could someone kindly explain exactly what the bRhat-sAman is? 

Thanks!
Howard
_______________________________________________
INDOLOGY mailing list
INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
http://listinfo.indology.info/


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From christophe.vielle at uclouvain.be  Tue Jul 16 10:15:38 2013
From: christophe.vielle at uclouvain.be (Christophe Vielle)
Date: Tue, 16 Jul 13 12:15:38 +0200
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Indology in Bologna 1900-1903 AD
Message-ID: <578D2C31-4B45-45DA-A54C-B5C4DC2DE42D@uclouvain.be>

Dear List,
I would like to know who was in charge of Sanskrit/Indology or IE comparative grammar in the University of Bologna in the years 1900-1903.
Thank you for your help,
Christophe Vielle




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From dbhattacharya200498 at yahoo.com  Tue Jul 16 10:27:44 2013
From: dbhattacharya200498 at yahoo.com (Dipak Bhattacharya)
Date: Tue, 16 Jul 13 18:27:44 +0800
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Professor Abhijit Ghosh
Message-ID: <1373970464.62330.YahooMailNeo@web193502.mail.sg3.yahoo.com>

16. 7. 13
<indology at list.indology.info>
Friends,
I have to report with a heavy heart that I just came to know
that Professor Dr. Abhijit Ghosh, Jadavpur University, passed away yesterday within
the University premises. He was just 60. After Chatterji, Przyluski, Burrow and
Kuiper, Ghosh came to be known as the best authority on Austric elements in
Vedic. Often appearing a hard non-conformist Ghosh had many human qualities and
felt for and helped others. His loss creates a vacuum that will be felt for a
long time.
Dipak Bhattacharya ????


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From svevo.donofrio at unibo.it  Tue Jul 16 10:31:37 2013
From: svevo.donofrio at unibo.it (Svevo D'Onofrio)
Date: Tue, 16 Jul 13 12:31:37 +0200
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Indology in Bologna 1900-1903 AD
In-Reply-To: <578D2C31-4B45-45DA-A54C-B5C4DC2DE42D@uclouvain.be>
Message-ID: <74E6A196-0036-4E7A-BFF3-75042F7599E0@unibo.it>

Dear Christophe,

if I am not mistaken, from 1899 to 1925 it was Francesco Lorenzo Pull? who was in charge of "Indo-European Philology" at the University of Bologna. A former student of Angelo De Gubernatis in Florence, Pull? had also studied with Albrecht Weber and Heinrich Kiepert in Berlin. 
He counted among his own students in Bologna several noteworthy scholars such as Luigi Suali, Ambrogio Ballini and Ferdinando Belloni Filippi.

Best,

Svevo D'Onofrio


PhD, Research Fellow
Lecturer in Sanskrit Language and Literature
University of Bologna
Department of History, Cultures and Civilizations
via Zamboni 33 - 40126 Bologna, Italy
Tel: +39 051 2098469
Email: svevo.donofrio at unibo.it




Il giorno 16/lug/2013, alle ore 12:15, Christophe Vielle <christophe.vielle at UCLOUVAIN.BE> ha scritto:

> Dear List,
> I would like to know who was in charge of Sanskrit/Indology or IE comparative grammar in the University of Bologna in the years 1900-1903.
> Thank you for your help,
> Christophe Vielle
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> http://listinfo.indology.info



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From christophe.vielle at uclouvain.be  Tue Jul 16 11:27:37 2013
From: christophe.vielle at uclouvain.be (Christophe Vielle)
Date: Tue, 16 Jul 13 13:27:37 +0200
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Indology in Bologna 1900-1903 AD (and Paul-Emile	Dumont)
In-Reply-To: <74E6A196-0036-4E7A-BFF3-75042F7599E0@unibo.it>
Message-ID: <861C76FD-285A-43EE-8C81-3CB1E81E7B99@uclouvain.be>

Thank you very much dear Svevo for this useful information.
The reason of my question was a bio-bibiographical notice I am currently writing on Paul-Emile Dumont (Brussels 1879 - Baltimore 1968).
His PhD was from the University of Bologna. See (University of Bologna digital archives):
http://www.archiviostorico.unibo.it/template/listStudenti.asp?IDFolder=143&filtro=no&start=..&offset=18030

228



Paolo Dumont di Saint Gilles (Belgio), Facolt? di Lettere, 24/06/1903, tesi: Tesi mancante: Degli scambi di parole avvenuti fra l'india e il mondo ellenico in seguito ai loro rapporti politici e commerciali, e delle leggi fonetiche che se ne possano trarre


If somebody knows an obituary notice on P.E. Dumont, I would be interested by the reference or a copy. Presently, beside his Indological writings and  a few family archives, I only have the reference to an obituary published in the Baltimore Sun (or The Sun, Baltimore) on the 10th of December 1968 (but no copy of it). Any living testimony would be also appreciated.
Best wishes,
Christophe Vielle



Le 16 juil. 2013 ? 12:31, Svevo D'Onofrio a ?crit :

> Dear Christophe,
> 
> if I am not mistaken, from 1899 to 1925 it was Francesco Lorenzo Pull? who was in charge of "Indo-European Philology" at the University of Bologna. A former student of Angelo De Gubernatis in Florence, Pull? had also studied with Albrecht Weber and Heinrich Kiepert in Berlin. 
> He counted among his own students in Bologna several noteworthy scholars such as Luigi Suali, Ambrogio Ballini and Ferdinando Belloni Filippi.
> 
> Best,
> 
> Svevo D'Onofrio
> 
> 
> PhD, Research Fellow
> Lecturer in Sanskrit Language and Literature
> University of Bologna
> Department of History, Cultures and Civilizations
> via Zamboni 33 - 40126 Bologna, Italy
> Tel: +39 051 2098469
> Email: svevo.donofrio at unibo.it
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Il giorno 16/lug/2013, alle ore 12:15, Christophe Vielle <christophe.vielle at UCLOUVAIN.BE> ha scritto:
> 
>> Dear List,
>> I would like to know who was in charge of Sanskrit/Indology or IE comparative grammar in the University of Bologna in the years 1900-1903.
>> Thank you for your help,
>> Christophe Vielle
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>> http://listinfo.indology.info
> 
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> http://listinfo.indology.info

???????????????????
Christophe Vielle
Louvain-la-Neuve

Editor, Publications de l'Institut Orientaliste de Louvain series
- Last Indological issues: PIOL nos 53, 60, 63, 64 
- Still available: Mah?praj??p?ramit???stra (vols 1-2-3-4-5),  Asa?ga's Mah?y?nasa?graha, Vimalak?rtinirde?a, Lamotte's History of Indian Buddhism, etc.



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From klaus.karttunen at helsinki.fi  Tue Jul 16 11:36:06 2013
From: klaus.karttunen at helsinki.fi (Klaus Karttunen)
Date: Tue, 16 Jul 13 14:36:06 +0300
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Indology in Bologna 1900-1903 AD (and Paul-Emile	Dumont)
In-Reply-To: <861C76FD-285A-43EE-8C81-3CB1E81E7B99@uclouvain.be>
Message-ID: <725984D9-1ED3-4DF5-B64E-05B21F2E0C5B@helsinki.fi>

There is a short obituary notice of Dumont by  K. V. Sarma in Vishv. Ind. Jnl 7, 1969, 157f. According to my files (Ballini's obituary in  RSO 16, 1936, 155-158) Pull? moved from Pisa to Bologna only in 1903. 
Best,
Klaus

Klaus Karttunen
South Asian and Indoeuropean Studies
Asian and African Studies, Department of World Cultures
PL 59 (Unioninkatu 38 B)
00014 University of Helsinki, FINLAND
Tel +358-(0)9-191 22674
Fax +358-(0)9-191 22094
Klaus.Karttunen at helsinki.fi





On Jul 16, 2013, at 2:27 PM, Christophe Vielle wrote:

> Thank you very much dear Svevo for this useful information.
> The reason of my question was a bio-bibiographical notice I am currently writing on Paul-Emile Dumont (Brussels 1879 - Baltimore 1968).
> His PhD was from the University of Bologna. See (University of Bologna digital archives):
> http://www.archiviostorico.unibo.it/template/listStudenti.asp?IDFolder=143&filtro=no&start=..&offset=18030
> 
> 228
> 
> 
> 
> Paolo Dumont di Saint Gilles (Belgio), Facolt? di Lettere, 24/06/1903, tesi: Tesi mancante: Degli scambi di parole avvenuti fra l'india e il mondo ellenico in seguito ai loro rapporti politici e commerciali, e delle leggi fonetiche che se ne possano trarre
> 
> 
> If somebody knows an obituary notice on P.E. Dumont, I would be interested by the reference or a copy. Presently, beside his Indological writings and  a few family archives, I only have the reference to an obituary published in the Baltimore Sun (or The Sun, Baltimore) on the 10th of December 1968 (but no copy of it). Any living testimony would be also appreciated.
> Best wishes,
> Christophe Vielle
> 
> 
> 
> Le 16 juil. 2013 ? 12:31, Svevo D'Onofrio a ?crit :
> 
>> Dear Christophe,
>> 
>> if I am not mistaken, from 1899 to 1925 it was Francesco Lorenzo Pull? who was in charge of "Indo-European Philology" at the University of Bologna. A former student of Angelo De Gubernatis in Florence, Pull? had also studied with Albrecht Weber and Heinrich Kiepert in Berlin. 
>> He counted among his own students in Bologna several noteworthy scholars such as Luigi Suali, Ambrogio Ballini and Ferdinando Belloni Filippi.
>> 
>> Best,
>> 
>> Svevo D'Onofrio
>> 
>> 
>> PhD, Research Fellow
>> Lecturer in Sanskrit Language and Literature
>> University of Bologna
>> Department of History, Cultures and Civilizations
>> via Zamboni 33 - 40126 Bologna, Italy
>> Tel: +39 051 2098469
>> Email: svevo.donofrio at unibo.it
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Il giorno 16/lug/2013, alle ore 12:15, Christophe Vielle <christophe.vielle at UCLOUVAIN.BE> ha scritto:
>> 
>>> Dear List,
>>> I would like to know who was in charge of Sanskrit/Indology or IE comparative grammar in the University of Bologna in the years 1900-1903.
>>> Thank you for your help,
>>> Christophe Vielle
>>> 
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>>> http://listinfo.indology.info
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>> http://listinfo.indology.info
> 
> ???????????????????
> Christophe Vielle
> Louvain-la-Neuve
> 
> Editor, Publications de l'Institut Orientaliste de Louvain series
> - Last Indological issues: PIOL nos 53, 60, 63, 64 
> - Still available: Mah?praj??p?ramit???stra (vols 1-2-3-4-5),  Asa?ga's Mah?y?nasa?graha, Vimalak?rtinirde?a, Lamotte's History of Indian Buddhism, etc.
> 
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> http://listinfo.indology.info



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From svevo.donofrio at unibo.it  Tue Jul 16 11:54:12 2013
From: svevo.donofrio at unibo.it (Svevo D'Onofrio)
Date: Tue, 16 Jul 13 13:54:12 +0200
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Indology in Bologna 1900-1903 AD (and Paul-Emile	Dumont)
In-Reply-To: <725984D9-1ED3-4DF5-B64E-05B21F2E0C5B@helsinki.fi>
Message-ID: <13874246-1140-4F54-8647-077D9AEDEADE@unibo.it>

Dear Klaus,

I cannot be 100% sure of course, but I think that source might be incorrect. 
According to several other sources, including the original files from the Senate of Italy linked below (Pull? was also a senator of the Kingdom of Italy), Pull? was first "Full professor of Sanskrit and Comparative history of the classical languages" in Padua from June 3rd 1886 to 1889; then "Full professor of Sanskrit" in Pisa only for a few months, starting June 20th 1889; and eventually "Full professor of Indo-European Philology" in Bologna from October 23rd 1899 to 1925.
In fact, he established the "Gabinetto di Glottologia Sperimentale" (later renamed "Istituto di Glottologia", then "Dipartimento di Studi Linguistici e Orientali" and currently "Dipartimento di Storia, Culture e Civilt?") in Bologna already in 1902.

Link: http://notes9.senato.it/web/senregno.nsf/8c58c55c1230e7f8c125703d002fe257/2391e204b65f91bf4125646f005ec7a0?OpenDocument

Best,
Svevo




Svevo D'Onofrio

PhD, Research Fellow
Lecturer in Sanskrit Language and Literature
University of Bologna
Department of History, Cultures and Civilizations
via Zamboni 33 - 40126 Bologna, Italy
Tel: +39 051 2098469
Email: svevo.donofrio at unibo.it




Il giorno 16/lug/2013, alle ore 13:36, Klaus Karttunen <klaus.karttunen at HELSINKI.FI> ha scritto:

> There is a short obituary notice of Dumont by  K. V. Sarma in Vishv. Ind. Jnl 7, 1969, 157f. According to my files (Ballini's obituary in  RSO 16, 1936, 155-158) Pull? moved from Pisa to Bologna only in 1903. 
> Best,
> Klaus
> 
> Klaus Karttunen
> South Asian and Indoeuropean Studies
> Asian and African Studies, Department of World Cultures
> PL 59 (Unioninkatu 38 B)
> 00014 University of Helsinki, FINLAND
> Tel +358-(0)9-191 22674
> Fax +358-(0)9-191 22094
> Klaus.Karttunen at helsinki.fi
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On Jul 16, 2013, at 2:27 PM, Christophe Vielle wrote:
> 
>> Thank you very much dear Svevo for this useful information.
>> The reason of my question was a bio-bibiographical notice I am currently writing on Paul-Emile Dumont (Brussels 1879 - Baltimore 1968).
>> His PhD was from the University of Bologna. See (University of Bologna digital archives):
>> http://www.archiviostorico.unibo.it/template/listStudenti.asp?IDFolder=143&filtro=no&start=..&offset=18030
>> 
>> 228
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Paolo Dumont di Saint Gilles (Belgio), Facolt? di Lettere, 24/06/1903, tesi: Tesi mancante: Degli scambi di parole avvenuti fra l'india e il mondo ellenico in seguito ai loro rapporti politici e commerciali, e delle leggi fonetiche che se ne possano trarre
>> 
>> 
>> If somebody knows an obituary notice on P.E. Dumont, I would be interested by the reference or a copy. Presently, beside his Indological writings and  a few family archives, I only have the reference to an obituary published in the Baltimore Sun (or The Sun, Baltimore) on the 10th of December 1968 (but no copy of it). Any living testimony would be also appreciated.
>> Best wishes,
>> Christophe Vielle
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Le 16 juil. 2013 ? 12:31, Svevo D'Onofrio a ?crit :
>> 
>>> Dear Christophe,
>>> 
>>> if I am not mistaken, from 1899 to 1925 it was Francesco Lorenzo Pull? who was in charge of "Indo-European Philology" at the University of Bologna. A former student of Angelo De Gubernatis in Florence, Pull? had also studied with Albrecht Weber and Heinrich Kiepert in Berlin. 
>>> He counted among his own students in Bologna several noteworthy scholars such as Luigi Suali, Ambrogio Ballini and Ferdinando Belloni Filippi.
>>> 
>>> Best,
>>> 
>>> Svevo D'Onofrio
>>> 
>>> 
>>> PhD, Research Fellow
>>> Lecturer in Sanskrit Language and Literature
>>> University of Bologna
>>> Department of History, Cultures and Civilizations
>>> via Zamboni 33 - 40126 Bologna, Italy
>>> Tel: +39 051 2098469
>>> Email: svevo.donofrio at unibo.it
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Il giorno 16/lug/2013, alle ore 12:15, Christophe Vielle <christophe.vielle at UCLOUVAIN.BE> ha scritto:
>>> 
>>>> Dear List,
>>>> I would like to know who was in charge of Sanskrit/Indology or IE comparative grammar in the University of Bologna in the years 1900-1903.
>>>> Thank you for your help,
>>>> Christophe Vielle
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>>>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>>>> http://listinfo.indology.info
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>>> http://listinfo.indology.info
>> 
>> ???????????????????
>> Christophe Vielle
>> Louvain-la-Neuve
>> 
>> Editor, Publications de l'Institut Orientaliste de Louvain series
>> - Last Indological issues: PIOL nos 53, 60, 63, 64 
>> - Still available: Mah?praj??p?ramit???stra (vols 1-2-3-4-5),  Asa?ga's Mah?y?nasa?graha, Vimalak?rtinirde?a, Lamotte's History of Indian Buddhism, etc.
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>> http://listinfo.indology.info
> 
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> http://listinfo.indology.info



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From klaus.karttunen at helsinki.fi  Tue Jul 16 12:03:18 2013
From: klaus.karttunen at helsinki.fi (Klaus Karttunen)
Date: Tue, 16 Jul 13 15:03:18 +0300
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Indology in Bologna 1900-1903 AD (and Paul-Emile	Dumont)
In-Reply-To: <13874246-1140-4F54-8647-077D9AEDEADE@unibo.it>
Message-ID: <C698A290-1CC1-486B-BE2C-3D514CD3E0E5@helsinki.fi>

Thanks, Svevo.
I knew that he was a senator, but the link you gave was new to me. Perhaps I could have found the correct dates also from Franci's books, but they are at home and I am writing from my office. I visited Bologna myself 11 years ago giving a few lectures and had very nice time with Franci, Passi and Marchignoli.

Best,
Klaus

Klaus Karttunen
South Asian and Indoeuropean Studies
Asian and African Studies, Department of World Cultures
PL 59 (Unioninkatu 38 B)
00014 University of Helsinki, FINLAND
Tel +358-(0)9-191 22674
Fax +358-(0)9-191 22094
Klaus.Karttunen at helsinki.fi





On Jul 16, 2013, at 2:54 PM, Svevo D'Onofrio wrote:

> Dear Klaus,
> 
> I cannot be 100% sure of course, but I think that source might be incorrect. 
> According to several other sources, including the original files from the Senate of Italy linked below (Pull? was also a senator of the Kingdom of Italy), Pull? was first "Full professor of Sanskrit and Comparative history of the classical languages" in Padua from June 3rd 1886 to 1889; then "Full professor of Sanskrit" in Pisa only for a few months, starting June 20th 1889; and eventually "Full professor of Indo-European Philology" in Bologna from October 23rd 1899 to 1925.
> In fact, he established the "Gabinetto di Glottologia Sperimentale" (later renamed "Istituto di Glottologia", then "Dipartimento di Studi Linguistici e Orientali" and currently "Dipartimento di Storia, Culture e Civilt?") in Bologna already in 1902.
> 
> Link: http://notes9.senato.it/web/senregno.nsf/8c58c55c1230e7f8c125703d002fe257/2391e204b65f91bf4125646f005ec7a0?OpenDocument
> 
> Best,
> Svevo
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Svevo D'Onofrio
> 
> PhD, Research Fellow
> Lecturer in Sanskrit Language and Literature
> University of Bologna
> Department of History, Cultures and Civilizations
> via Zamboni 33 - 40126 Bologna, Italy
> Tel: +39 051 2098469
> Email: svevo.donofrio at unibo.it
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Il giorno 16/lug/2013, alle ore 13:36, Klaus Karttunen <klaus.karttunen at HELSINKI.FI> ha scritto:
> 
>> There is a short obituary notice of Dumont by  K. V. Sarma in Vishv. Ind. Jnl 7, 1969, 157f. According to my files (Ballini's obituary in  RSO 16, 1936, 155-158) Pull? moved from Pisa to Bologna only in 1903. 
>> Best,
>> Klaus
>> 
>> Klaus Karttunen
>> South Asian and Indoeuropean Studies
>> Asian and African Studies, Department of World Cultures
>> PL 59 (Unioninkatu 38 B)
>> 00014 University of Helsinki, FINLAND
>> Tel +358-(0)9-191 22674
>> Fax +358-(0)9-191 22094
>> Klaus.Karttunen at helsinki.fi
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On Jul 16, 2013, at 2:27 PM, Christophe Vielle wrote:
>> 
>>> Thank you very much dear Svevo for this useful information.
>>> The reason of my question was a bio-bibiographical notice I am currently writing on Paul-Emile Dumont (Brussels 1879 - Baltimore 1968).
>>> His PhD was from the University of Bologna. See (University of Bologna digital archives):
>>> http://www.archiviostorico.unibo.it/template/listStudenti.asp?IDFolder=143&filtro=no&start=..&offset=18030
>>> 
>>> 228
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Paolo Dumont di Saint Gilles (Belgio), Facolt? di Lettere, 24/06/1903, tesi: Tesi mancante: Degli scambi di parole avvenuti fra l'india e il mondo ellenico in seguito ai loro rapporti politici e commerciali, e delle leggi fonetiche che se ne possano trarre
>>> 
>>> 
>>> If somebody knows an obituary notice on P.E. Dumont, I would be interested by the reference or a copy. Presently, beside his Indological writings and  a few family archives, I only have the reference to an obituary published in the Baltimore Sun (or The Sun, Baltimore) on the 10th of December 1968 (but no copy of it). Any living testimony would be also appreciated.
>>> Best wishes,
>>> Christophe Vielle
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Le 16 juil. 2013 ? 12:31, Svevo D'Onofrio a ?crit :
>>> 
>>>> Dear Christophe,
>>>> 
>>>> if I am not mistaken, from 1899 to 1925 it was Francesco Lorenzo Pull? who was in charge of "Indo-European Philology" at the University of Bologna. A former student of Angelo De Gubernatis in Florence, Pull? had also studied with Albrecht Weber and Heinrich Kiepert in Berlin. 
>>>> He counted among his own students in Bologna several noteworthy scholars such as Luigi Suali, Ambrogio Ballini and Ferdinando Belloni Filippi.
>>>> 
>>>> Best,
>>>> 
>>>> Svevo D'Onofrio
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> PhD, Research Fellow
>>>> Lecturer in Sanskrit Language and Literature
>>>> University of Bologna
>>>> Department of History, Cultures and Civilizations
>>>> via Zamboni 33 - 40126 Bologna, Italy
>>>> Tel: +39 051 2098469
>>>> Email: svevo.donofrio at unibo.it
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Il giorno 16/lug/2013, alle ore 12:15, Christophe Vielle <christophe.vielle at UCLOUVAIN.BE> ha scritto:
>>>> 
>>>>> Dear List,
>>>>> I would like to know who was in charge of Sanskrit/Indology or IE comparative grammar in the University of Bologna in the years 1900-1903.
>>>>> Thank you for your help,
>>>>> Christophe Vielle
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>>>>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>>>>> http://listinfo.indology.info
>>>> 
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>>>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>>>> http://listinfo.indology.info
>>> 
>>> ???????????????????
>>> Christophe Vielle
>>> Louvain-la-Neuve
>>> 
>>> Editor, Publications de l'Institut Orientaliste de Louvain series
>>> - Last Indological issues: PIOL nos 53, 60, 63, 64 
>>> - Still available: Mah?praj??p?ramit???stra (vols 1-2-3-4-5),  Asa?ga's Mah?y?nasa?graha, Vimalak?rtinirde?a, Lamotte's History of Indian Buddhism, etc.
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>>> http://listinfo.indology.info
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>> http://listinfo.indology.info
> 
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> http://listinfo.indology.info



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From gthomgt at gmail.com  Tue Jul 16 18:33:29 2013
From: gthomgt at gmail.com (George Thompson)
Date: Tue, 16 Jul 13 14:33:29 -0400
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Fwd: What's "Vedic"?
In-Reply-To: <349D1909-272A-4477-B5CE-C2F75EB5A814@berkeley.edu>
Message-ID: <CAP1Y1zsaSLr1LRwosP__SsDsrubN4Tw-_mPqF8eMZGPApBer2A@mail.gmail.com>

Hello George,

Thank you for passing this on.  I think that I may have seen this news when
it first came out.  Perhaps it was mentioned on the list.  However, the
article, in its header, dates the writing to the 4th cent. BCE, whereas in
the body of the article Rajan is quoted as dating it to the 3rd or 2nd
centuries BCE.

Do we know more now, more than a year later?

George T

On Mon, Jul 15, 2013 at 4:51 PM, George Hart <glhart at berkeley.edu> wrote:

> It appears the earliest writing may date from before the Asokan
> inscriptions, and, strangely, is in the far south.  See
>
>
> http://www.thehindu.com/features/friday-review/history-and-culture/kodumanal-excavation-yields-a-bonanza-again/article3463120.ece
>
> George Hart
>
>
> On Jul 15, 2013, at 1:32 PM, George Thompson <gthomgt at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: George Thompson <gthomgt at gmail.com>
> Date: Mon, Jul 15, 2013 at 4:29 PM
> Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] What's "Vedic"?
> To: Jarrod Whitaker <whitakjl at wfu.edu>
>
>
> Dear Jarrod,
>
> I've been very busy with other things, but I want to add another response
> to your question, just in order to keep your thread going.  I think that it
> is a discussion worth having.
>
> I myself do not spend much time any more worrying about Vedic dates. Vedic
> texts are oral texts that grew by accretion over many generations.  The
> earliest historical evidence for a Vedic language is roughly 1300 BCE, in
> the Mitanni texts, where there is clear evidence of a linguistic split
> between Old Indic and Old Iranian.  So I would hesitate to say that
> Vedic is older than 1300 BCE, for lack of any historical evidence of it.
>
> Also, Iranists, as far as I know [I haven't kept up with the most recent
> research there], do not consider the dialect of the Gathas [oldest Iranian
> text] to be very old.  There is also an Old Avestan text, independent of
> the Gathas, the Yasna Haptangaiti, which is remarkable for preserving
> ritual formulaic mantras that are very reminiscent of RV formulaic
> mantras.  These comparisons with Old Avestan texts suggest that Old Vedic
> [RV, etc], are of a comparable date with these Old Avestan texts: fairly
> late.
>
> But we are comparing many things, none of which have firm dates.
>
> I say: let it go.  We don't have firm dates.  We can only give very
> approximate ones.
>
> But like Jarrod and Howard I would like to hear the views of others.
>
> On the other hand, our first historical evidence  of writing in India is
> mid-third cent. BCE [the Asokan edicts].  These edicts are written in a
> post-Vedic, and even a post-Sanskrit, dialect.  We may assume, of course,
> that good Vedic was still spoken at that time in some quarters, and of
> course good Sanskrit was too, but it was a different Sanskrit than the Old
> Vedic Sanskrit of the Rgveda, by many centuries.
>
> This is the framework that I would work within, in terms of dating Vedic
> texts.  I don't count later
> commentaries on earlier Vedic texts as "Vedic" if they don't exhibit the
> linguistic features of clearly Vedic texts.
>
> For this reason the Sanskrit epic texts, as we have them, are all clearly
> later than all Vedic texts, also as we have them.
>
> Earliest Buddhist texts, in Pali, also oral, are clearly post-Vedic as
> well.
>
> So, by mid-3rd century BCE nobody, as far as I can tell, was producing
> genuine "Vedic" texts.
>
> My best wishes, with the hope that this helps.
>
> George Thompson
> On Mon, Jul 8, 2013 at 12:17 PM, Jarrod Whitaker <whitakjl at wfu.edu> wrote:
>
>> Dear Colleagues:
>> I need some friendly help and criticism. I am currently writing an
>> article on warfare in "Ancient India" (1500 BCE-600 CE) and because I need
>> to break up different periods, I am having trouble settling on dates and
>> labels. Here is the paragraph I have written:
>>
>> "I will delineate four heuristically useful, but rather arbitrary
>> historical periods: 1) the early Vedic period, 1500-1000 BCE (represented
>> by the R?gveda and parts of the Atharvaveda, and involving pastoral
>> migrations and limited permanent settlement of the ?ryan tribes in the
>> north and northwestern parts of the Subcontinent); 2) the
>> middle-"classical" Vedic period, 1000-500 BCE (represented by the
>> Yajurveda, Br?hma?as, early Upani?ads, and involving a transition from
>> pastoralism to permanent territorial control, the rise of systematic class
>> stratification that is realized through complex ritual, social, and
>> political relationships, and ending with the rise of city states across the
>> Indo-Gangetic Plain); 3) the late Vedic period, 500 BCE to 1 CE
>> (represented by late Upani?ads, S?tra-??stra (smr?ti) texts and the Epics,
>> and encompassing the rise of the Mauryan dynasty [300-185 BCE], and the
>> rise of heterodox ascetic movements; namely Buddhism and Jainism); and 4)
>> early "historical" period, 1?550 CE (represented by Epics, further ??stra
>> literature, earliest P?ra?as, and involving the rise of Bhakti devotional
>> movements, and ending with the collapse of the Gupta Dynasty [300-550 CE])."
>>
>> I realize my use of "Vedic" is broader than usual (my dates are of course
>> designed to break up the article into clear, manageable sections). Many
>> sources want to end the "Vedic period" with roughly the 2nd Urbanization,
>> which is equated with the Upanisads as "Ved?nta"/?ruti (see Example*
>> below). The term "Ved?nta" is of course an emic concept that closes the
>> "sacred canon" and hence "Vedic" is often synonymous with ?ruti. But the
>> use of the term certainly doesn't end the production of extensive texts on
>> Brahmanical values, customs, rituals, and ideologies/theologies. If "Vedic"
>> is synonymous with "Brahmanical", then Smrti literature and the epics would
>> be no less "Vedic" than ?ruti literature These issues become further
>> complicated when we factor in a broad separation of early and late
>> Upanisads, the composition of early and late ?rauta and Grhya literature,
>> and include Bronkhorst's recent work, which throws a sizable wrench in the
>> works (or spanner, depending on your current geography) as his argument
>> would push some of the middle/classical Vedic period into my late Vedic
>> period. (I also don't want to imply that Vedic texts and practices somehow
>> disappear at 1 CE, because I no longer use the label "Vedic" in the above
>> paragraph for the Common Era.)
>>
>> Anyway, I am happy to take suggestions here for inventive and/or
>> authoritative ways to think through this. And since I would rather pin my
>> dates on someone else (always good to lay blame elsewhere), is there a
>> recent "up-to-date" source that offers a reliable and/or reasonable insight
>> into these issues, while designating some broad historical periods?
>>
>> Perhaps we could compile over this list a general impression about the
>> labels, relative chronology, timeframes/dates, and issues that you use with
>> your students and in publication (including the sources to which you
>> default).
>>
>> Perhaps the key problem is trying to come up with neat historical boxes
>> for a general audience...
>>
>> Cheers
>> Jarrod
>>
>> Example*
>> Here is an example of two different frameworks from Erdosy (1995):
>> Allchin: Pre-Vedic Indo-Aryan migration (2000 BCE), Vedic Aryan migration
>> (1750-1500 BCE). Early Vedic (1750-1500 BCE), (Middle) Vedic (1500-1000
>> BCE), and Late Vedic period (1000-600 BCE).
>>
>> Erdosy (same volume): Early Iron Age (c.1000-600 BCE) for material
>> culture and Late Vedic for literature in the same period.) Early Historic
>> or Second Urbanization (c.600-300 BCE), and Post-Vedic (c.600 BCE-300 CE).
>>
>> Jarrod Whitaker, Ph.D.
>> Associate Professor, South Asian Religions
>> Zachary T. Smith Faculty Fellow
>> Graduate Program Director
>>
>> Wake Forest University
>> Department of Religion
>> P.O. Box 7212
>> Winston-Salem, NC 27109
>> whitakjl at wfu.edu
>> p 336.758.4162
>>
>> ______________________________**_________________
>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>> http://listinfo.indology.info
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> http://listinfo.indology.info
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> http://listinfo.indology.info
>


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From jemhouben at gmail.com  Tue Jul 16 19:38:08 2013
From: jemhouben at gmail.com (Jan E.M. Houben)
Date: Tue, 16 Jul 13 21:38:08 +0200
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Professor Abhijit Ghosh
In-Reply-To: <1373970464.62330.YahooMailNeo@web193502.mail.sg3.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <CAGCGLoBO-YQxTQ2r63fZv9geQQhCxP0SRmgx=9Jtq9D6WxqVOQ@mail.gmail.com>

Most saddening and incomprehensible that Prof. Dr. Abhijit Ghosh -- our
dear Abhi-daa -- passed away ... far too young.

Hardly a month ago I consulted him on the lexical element paN as I was not
satisfied with the statements about it in some handbooks; he referred me to
his Non-Aryan linguistic elements in the Atharvaveda which he had gifted me
around 10 years ago and which I should have consulted in the first place:
the answer was already there.

The full reference is:
Non-Aryan linguistic elements in the Atharvaveda : a study of some words of
Austric origin / by Dr. Abhijit Ghosh
Calcutta : Sanskrit Pustak Bhandar, 2000.

Another well-known contribution by him is the edited volume:
A?tharvan?a? : a collection of essays on the Atharva Veda with special
reference to its Paippala?da tradition / ed. by Abhijit Ghosh.
Kolkata : Sanskrit Book Depot, 2002.

Condolences to his family with this unbearable loss.

Jan Houben



On 16 July 2013 12:27, Dipak Bhattacharya <dbhattacharya200498 at yahoo.com>wrote:

> 16. 7. 13
> <indology at list.indology.info>
> Friends,
> I have to report with a heavy heart that I just came to know that
> Professor Dr. Abhijit Ghosh, Jadavpur University, passed away yesterday
> within the University premises. He was just 60. After Chatterji, Przyluski,
> Burrow and Kuiper, Ghosh came to be known as the best authority on Austric
> elements in Vedic. Often appearing a hard non-conformist Ghosh had many
> human qualities and felt for and helped others. His loss creates a vacuum
> that will be felt for a long time.
> Dipak Bhattacharya
>
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> http://listinfo.indology.info
>


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From hr at ivs.edu  Tue Jul 16 19:53:36 2013
From: hr at ivs.edu (Howard Resnick)
Date: Tue, 16 Jul 13 12:53:36 -0700
Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_[INDOLOGY]_question_on_B=E1=B9=9Bhat_s=C4=81man?=
In-Reply-To: <1373965784.11086.YahooMailNeo@web193505.mail.sg3.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <FC952D02-B79D-4262-97B1-6A852BE3B2D9@ivs.edu>

Thank you very much. Do you know why these verses were called the "Great Saman", brhat-saman?
Best,
Howard

On Jul 16, 2013, at 2:09 AM, Dipak Bhattacharya <dbhattacharya200498 at yahoo.com> wrote:

> B?hat and Rathantara are considered two important s?mans in the Pa?cavi??abr?hma?a. B?hat is based on RV.6.46.1,2. See PB 5.1.10ff, 5.2.1,8.9.11 etc.
> Best
> DB
>  
> 
> From: Howard Resnick <hr at ivs.edu>
> To: Indology List <indology at list.indology.info> 
> Sent: Tuesday, 16 July 2013 3:42 AM
> Subject: [INDOLOGY] question
> 
> In Bhagavad-gita 10.35, Krsna says, "Of sAmans, I am bRhat-sAman?"
> 
> Could someone kindly explain exactly what the bRhat-sAman is? 
> 
> Thanks!
> Howard
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> http://listinfo.indology.info/
> 



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From wujastyk at gmail.com  Wed Jul 17 08:53:07 2013
From: wujastyk at gmail.com (Dominik Wujastyk)
Date: Wed, 17 Jul 13 10:53:07 +0200
Subject: [INDOLOGY] INDOLOGY,	SARIT and Bombay websites: possible service interruption tonight
Message-ID: <CAKdt-CeT0nGBOh6k-63TdVG2FM-ykZu1d2oKg4P5Oh_axHh6Jw@mail.gmail.com>

The company that runs our INDOLOGY server is doing some maintenance tonight:

During the (Central European) night of Wednesday, 7/17/2013 to Thursday,
7/18/2013 between 23.00 and 05:00 we are carrying out maintenance on the
host systems.  There may be interruptions in the availability of your
server during this period.

Email to and from the INDOLOGY discussion list should not be affected.

Best,
Dominik Wujastyk


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From Joseph.Walser at tufts.edu  Wed Jul 17 15:04:04 2013
From: Joseph.Walser at tufts.edu (Walser, Joseph)
Date: Wed, 17 Jul 13 15:04:04 +0000
Subject: [INDOLOGY] PDF of Geldners Rigveda?
Message-ID: <E5F571B94D36DB4AA048E0CF279CFC70016F9EDD@SSVMEXDAG01MB01.tufts.ad.tufts.edu>

Does anyone out there know of (or possess)  PDFs of Karl Geldner's German translation of the Rigveda?

Best,

-j





Joseph Walser

Associate Professor

Department of Religion

Tufts University







From gthomgt at gmail.com  Wed Jul 17 18:23:21 2013
From: gthomgt at gmail.com (George Thompson)
Date: Wed, 17 Jul 13 14:23:21 -0400
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Indology in Bologna 1900-1903 AD (and Paul-Emile	Dumont)
In-Reply-To: <C698A290-1CC1-486B-BE2C-3D514CD3E0E5@helsinki.fi>
Message-ID: <CAP1Y1zvBVMx4GLFQLoj1UDJLXgtb8PLJDy0zA5h0+s6AwCC0yQ@mail.gmail.com>

Dear Christophe and others who have contributed to this discussion,

I myself am unable to contribute to it, because I do not have access to a
good library.  But I do very much want to know more about the history of
Indology.  And so I thank you for posting these notes to the list, and
encourage you to continue.

Best wishes to all,

George


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From Joseph.Walser at tufts.edu  Wed Jul 17 18:58:17 2013
From: Joseph.Walser at tufts.edu (Walser, Joseph)
Date: Wed, 17 Jul 13 18:58:17 +0000
Subject: [INDOLOGY] PDF of Geldners Rigveda?
In-Reply-To: <E5F571B94D36DB4AA048E0CF279CFC70016F9EDD@SSVMEXDAG01MB01.tufts.ad.tufts.edu>
Message-ID: <E5F571B94D36DB4AA048E0CF279CFC70016FB0E7@SSVMEXDAG01MB01.tufts.ad.tufts.edu>

My thanks to George Thompson who informs me that a new edition of Geldner's translation (edited by Michael Witzel) has been published recently by Harvard University Press.

Best,



-j



Joseph Walser

Associate Professor

Department of Religion

Tufts University

________________________________
From: Walser, Joseph
Sent: Wednesday, July 17, 2013 11:04 AM
To: indology at list.indology.info
Subject: PDF of Geldners Rigveda?


Does anyone out there know of (or possess)  PDFs of Karl Geldner's German translation of the Rigveda?

Best,

-j





Joseph Walser

Associate Professor

Department of Religion

Tufts University







From fmgerety at fas.harvard.edu  Fri Jul 19 20:35:11 2013
From: fmgerety at fas.harvard.edu (Moore Gerety, Finnian)
Date: Fri, 19 Jul 13 20:35:11 +0000
Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_[INDOLOGY]_question_on_B=E1=B9=9Bhat_s=C4=81man?=
In-Reply-To: <FC952D02-B79D-4262-97B1-6A852BE3B2D9@ivs.edu>
Message-ID: <F1FB5BC0484C5F4DA1920D2FDE9E7E4101BAC1@HARVANDMBX02.fasmail.priv>

Howard--
Thanks to the Br?hma?a obsession with making correlations/identifications/correspondences, you can get some idea of what the B?hat represents in the Veda by examining the entities with which it is correlated. The B?hat and Rathantara are treated as a pair in some of these passages, so that you also get an idea of the entities to which each is opposed. For example (PB 7.6.17, trans. Caland): B is the mind, R  voice; B is the melody, R the verse; B is expiration, R is inspiration; B is yonder world, R is this world.
Caland's translation of the Pa?cavi??a-Br?hma?a has an index of s?man names, so you can easily find all the passages that mention B?hat. The Jaimin?ya-Br?hma?a also has a lot to say about the B?hat; an accessible example is in Caland's Das Jaimin?ya-Br?hma?a in Auswahl ? 25 (p32).

yours,
Finn

Finnian Moore Gerety
Doctoral Candidate
Department of South Asian Studies
Harvard University

On 16-Jul-2013, at 3:53 PM, Howard Resnick wrote:

Thank you very much. Do you know why these verses were called the "Great Saman", brhat-saman?
Best,
Howard

On Jul 16, 2013, at 2:09 AM, Dipak Bhattacharya <dbhattacharya200498 at yahoo.com<mailto:dbhattacharya200498 at yahoo.com>> wrote:

B?hat and Rathantara are considered two important s?mans in the Pa?cavi??abr?hma?a. B?hat is based on RV.6.46.1,2. See PB 5.1.10ff, 5.2.1,8.9.11 etc.
Best
DB


From: Howard Resnick <hr at ivs.edu<mailto:hr at ivs.edu>>
To: Indology List <indology at list.indology.info<mailto:indology at list.indology.info>>
Sent: Tuesday, 16 July 2013 3:42 AM
Subject: [INDOLOGY] question

In Bhagavad-gita 10.35, Krsna says, "Of sAmans, I am bRhat-sAman?"

Could someone kindly explain exactly what the bRhat-sAman is?

Thanks!
Howard
_______________________________________________
INDOLOGY mailing list
INDOLOGY at list.indology.info<mailto:INDOLOGY at list.indology.info>
http://listinfo.indology.info/


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From hr at IVS.EDU  Fri Jul 19 22:34:17 2013
From: hr at IVS.EDU (Howard Resnick)
Date: Fri, 19 Jul 13 15:34:17 -0700
Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_[INDOLOGY]_question_on_B=E1=B9=9Bhat_s=C4=81man?=
In-Reply-To: <F1FB5BC0484C5F4DA1920D2FDE9E7E4101BAC1@HARVANDMBX02.fasmail.priv>
Message-ID: <5C1E95A8-F66B-4199-9725-3EF7590EF7FA@IVS.EDU>

Finn,
	Thank you very much for this valuable information. I appreciate it. 
Best wishes,
Howard

On Jul 19, 2013, at 1:35 PM, "Moore Gerety, Finnian" <fmgerety at fas.harvard.edu> wrote:

> Howard--
> Thanks to the Br?hma?a obsession with making correlations/identifications/correspondences, you can get some idea of what the B?hat represents in the Veda by examining the entities with which it is correlated. The B?hat and Rathantara are treated as a pair in some of these passages, so that you also get an idea of the entities to which each is opposed. For example (PB 7.6.17, trans. Caland): B is the mind, R  voice; B is the melody, R the verse; B is expiration, R is inspiration; B is yonder world, R is this world. 
> Caland's translation of the Pa?cavi??a-Br?hma?a has an index of s?man names, so you can easily find all the passages that mention B?hat. The Jaimin?ya-Br?hma?a also has a lot to say about the B?hat; an accessible example is in Caland's Das Jaimin?ya-Br?hma?a in Auswahl ? 25 (p32).
> 
> yours,
> Finn
> 
> Finnian Moore Gerety
> Doctoral Candidate
> Department of South Asian Studies
> Harvard University
> 
> On 16-Jul-2013, at 3:53 PM, Howard Resnick wrote:
> 
>> Thank you very much. Do you know why these verses were called the "Great Saman", brhat-saman?
>> Best,
>> Howard
>> 
>> On Jul 16, 2013, at 2:09 AM, Dipak Bhattacharya <dbhattacharya200498 at yahoo.com> wrote:
>> 
>>> B?hat and Rathantara are considered two important s?mans in the Pa?cavi??abr?hma?a. B?hat is based on RV.6.46.1,2. See PB 5.1.10ff, 5.2.1,8.9.11 etc.
>>> Best
>>> DB
>>>  
>>> 
>>> From: Howard Resnick <hr at ivs.edu>
>>> To: Indology List <indology at list.indology.info> 
>>> Sent: Tuesday, 16 July 2013 3:42 AM
>>> Subject: [INDOLOGY] question
>>> 
>>> In Bhagavad-gita 10.35, Krsna says, "Of sAmans, I am bRhat-sAman?"
>>> 
>>> Could someone kindly explain exactly what the bRhat-sAman is? 
>>> 
>>> Thanks!
>>> Howard
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>>> http://listinfo.indology.info/
>>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>> http://listinfo.indology.info
> 



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From ashok.aklujkar at gmail.com  Sat Jul 20 02:12:19 2013
From: ashok.aklujkar at gmail.com (Ashok Aklujkar)
Date: Fri, 19 Jul 13 19:12:19 -0700
Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_[INDOLOGY]_question_on_B=E1=B9=9Bhat_s=C4=81man?=
In-Reply-To: <F1FB5BC0484C5F4DA1920D2FDE9E7E4101BAC1@HARVANDMBX02.fasmail.priv>
Message-ID: <C9FFAE1B-EC02-4D2E-9C38-80C24352FF7C@gmail.com>

Kevalananda -sarasvati's Miimaa.saa-ko.sa vol. 52975-2979 will provide several potentially helpful references. The notion rathantara frequently associated with  b.rhat-saaman is noted on vol. 6 pp. 3289-3303 of the same.

a.a.
>> From: Howard Resnick <hr at ivs.edu>
>> To: Indology List <indology at list.indology.info> 
>> Sent: Tuesday, 16 July 2013 3:42 AM
>> Subject: [INDOLOGY] question
>> 
>> In Bhagavad-gita 10.35, Krsna says, "Of sAmans, I am bRhat-sAman?"
>> 
>> Could someone kindly explain exactly what the bRhat-sAman is? 
>> _______________________________________________
> 
> _\\


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From dbhattacharya200498 at yahoo.com  Sat Jul 20 03:35:20 2013
From: dbhattacharya200498 at yahoo.com (Dipak Bhattacharya)
Date: Sat, 20 Jul 13 11:35:20 +0800
Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_[INDOLOGY]_=EF=BB=BFquestion_on_B=E1=B9=9Bhat_s=C4=81man?=
In-Reply-To: <5C1E95A8-F66B-4199-9725-3EF7590EF7FA@IVS.EDU>
Message-ID: <1374291320.74390.YahooMailNeo@web193501.mail.sg3.yahoo.com>

Dear Mr. Resnick,
I am sorry that I forgot to reply to your second query. I planned a reply?but found little time and then the matter slipped from my mind.. It is more regrettable because in 1984 I had raised the issue of a Brahmana based interpretation of the Vedic ritual against one based on the mantras cited in the Srautasuutras. The Brhat and Rathantara were the illustrations where a Brahmana based interpretation could be misleading. Please see Mythological and ritual symbolism SPB Calcutta 1984:137-138. I caution you that Klaus Mylius wrongly remarked that I had taken the idea of a sutra based interpretation from Renou. You will yourself see the difference from Renou. I have no hesitation in saying that both Mylius (JIP 1989) and Karel Werner (JRAS 1987) were disappointed that they could not determine what I my intention was.?I admit my short comings, but your question will be answered.
Best 
DB
 

________________________________
 From: Howard Resnick <hr at IVS.EDU>
To: "Moore Gerety, Finnian" <fmgerety at fas.harvard.edu> 
Cc: Indology List <indology at list.indology.info> 
Sent: Saturday, 20 July 2013 4:04 AM
Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] ?question on B?hat s?man
  


Finn,
Thank you very much for this valuable information. I appreciate it.?
Best wishes,
Howard


On Jul 19, 2013, at 1:35 PM, "Moore Gerety, Finnian" <fmgerety at fas.harvard.edu> wrote:

Howard-- 
>Thanks to the Br?hma?a obsession with making correlations/identifications/correspondences, you can get some idea of what the B?hat represents in the Veda by examining the entities with which it is correlated. The B?hat and Rathantara are treated as a pair in some of these passages, so that you also get an idea of the entities to which each is opposed. For example (PB 7.6.17, trans. Caland): B is the mind, R ?voice; B is the melody, R the verse; B is expiration, R is inspiration; B is yonder world, R is this world.? 
>Caland's translation of the Pa?cavi??a-Br?hma?a has an index of s?man names, so you can easily find all the passages that mention B?hat. The Jaimin?ya-Br?hma?a also has a lot to say about the B?hat; an accessible example is in Caland's?Das Jaimin?ya-Br?hma?a in Auswahl?? 25 (p32). 
>
> 
>yours, 
>Finn 
>
> 
>Finnian Moore Gerety 
>Doctoral Candidate 
>Department of South Asian Studies 
>Harvard University 
>
> 
>On 16-Jul-2013, at 3:53 PM, Howard Resnick wrote: 
>
>Thank you very much. Do you know why these verses were called the "Great Saman", brhat-saman? 
>>Best, 
>>Howard 
>>
>>
>>On Jul 16, 2013, at 2:09 AM, Dipak Bhattacharya <dbhattacharya200498 at yahoo.com> wrote: 
>>
>>B?hat and Rathantara are considered two important s?mans in the Pa?cavi??abr?hma?a. B?hat is based on RV.6.46.1,2. See PB 5.1.10ff, 5.2.1,8.9.11 etc.  
>>>Best  
>>>DB  
>>>?    
>>>
>>> 
>>>
>>>________________________________
>>> From: Howard Resnick <hr at ivs.edu>
>>>To: Indology List <indology at list.indology.info> 
>>>Sent: Tuesday, 16 July 2013 3:42 AM
>>>Subject: [INDOLOGY] question
>>> 
>>>
>>>In Bhagavad-gita 10.35, Krsna says, "Of sAmans, I am bRhat-sAman?"
>>>
>>>Could someone kindly explain exactly what the bRhat-sAman is? 
>>>
>>>Thanks!
>>>Howard
>>>_______________________________________________
>>>INDOLOGY mailing list
>>>INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>>>http://listinfo.indology.info/
>>>
>>>      
>> 
_______________________________________________
>>INDOLOGY mailing list
>>INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>>http://listinfo.indology.info/  
> 

_______________________________________________
INDOLOGY mailing list
INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
http://listinfo.indology.info/


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From asko.parpola at helsinki.fi  Sat Jul 20 08:20:38 2013
From: asko.parpola at helsinki.fi (asko.parpola at helsinki.fi)
Date: Sat, 20 Jul 13 11:20:38 +0300
Subject: [INDOLOGY] [RISA-L LIST] Background and chronology of Vedic	texts
In-Reply-To: <A78609DC-DC5E-49CA-8F65-9AEA5FF8EDB0@fas.harvard.edu>
Message-ID: <20130720112038.Horde.79yVnVf61DSxjdnEumDY5Q2.aparpola@webmail.helsinki.fi>


Since the early 1970s, I have tried to correlate the Indo-Iranian
languages and texts with archaeology, and to work out their
prehistoric evolution and chronology taking into account the linguistic
and religious evidence.

My present understanding is summarized in the following papers:

"Formation of the Indo-European and Uralic (Finno-Ugric) language families
in the light of archaeology: Revised and integrated 'total' correlations",
Pp. 119-184 in: Riho Gr?nthal & Petri Kallio (eds.), Linguistic map of
Prehistoric Northern Europe. (M?moires de la Soci?t? Finno-Ougrienne 266.)
Helsinki 2012 [2013].

"The D?sas of the ?gveda as Proto-Sakas of the Yaz I -related cultures.
With a revised model for the protohistory of Indo-Iranian speakers."
Pp. 221-264 in: Martin E. Huld, Karlene Jones-Bley & Dean Miller (eds.),
Archaeology and Language: Indo-European Studies presented to James P. Mallory.
(Journal of Indo-European Studies Monograph 60.) Washington, D.C. 2012.

"S?maveda and sorcery", in press.

Briefly and very roughly:

Proto-Indo-Iranian c. 2800-2300 BCE in the Pontic steppes between
the Dnieper and the Volga.

Proto-Iranian c. 2300-1500 BCE in the Pontic-Caspian steppes between
the Dnieper and the Ural rivers.

Proto-East-Iranian / Proto-Saka speakers came
c. 1500 BCE as horse-riders to southern Central Asia, mixing
there with "Proto-?gvedic" Indo-Aryans; by 1000 BCE this resulted
in the creation of the earliest parts of the Avesta.

Proto-Indo-Aryan c. 2300-1350 BCE in the forest-steppes and steppes
of the Volga, the Urals (contact with Uralic/Finno-Ugric), Siberia,
southern Central Asia, Iran, Syria, and northwestern India

Proto-Indo-Aryan came to southern Central Asia and South Asia in
two waves with some differention in language and religion.

The first to arrive in southern Central Asia c. 21st century BCE
was the "Pre-Atharvavedic" branch, coming from the southern Urals
with horse-chariot (principal deities: A?vins and then Mitra-and-Varu?a
the latter probably doubles of the A?vins with the royal function).
They took over the originally non-Indo-European speaking
Bactria-Margiana Archaeological Complex (BMAC).

Part of these BMAC-Indo-Aryans proceeded to South Asia c. 1900 BCE.
In South Asia they started mixing with the majority population of
Late Indus Civilization, which spoke Proto-Dravidian.

The "pre-?gvedic" branch of Proto-Indo-Aryan speakers
(main deity: Indra, worshipped with Sauma cult) arrived in
southern Central Asia c. 1750 BCE, mixing there with the
"pre-Atharvavedic" branch, whose representatives probably
introduced the "proto-S?mavedic" prag?tha/g?yatr? poetry and
the A?vin & Mitra-and-Varu?a cult to the resulting "Proto-
?gvedic" tradition (c. 1500-1350 BCE), to which the Mitanni
Aryans belonged

King Divod?sa and his offspring led the ?gvedic Aryans
from the Kandahar region via eastern Afghanistan (where
the battles with the D?sas mainly took place) to the Panjab
c. 1350 BCE. The ?gvedic hymns were probably composed
c. 1350-1100 BCE.

In the Indus Valley, the ?gvedic Aryans mixed with the
earlier arrived "pre-Atharvavedic" Indo-Aryans who had
been subject to the Harappan substratum influence.
This mixing resulted first in the composition of the late books
of the ?gveda and the hymns of the Atharvaveda,
perhaps c. 1100-1000 BCE, and then the Br?hma?a literature
(the Yajurvedic Samhit?s as its earliest parts), perhaps
c. 1000-700 BCE.

The ?ra?yakas, earliest Upani?ads and the ?rautas?tras of
Baudh?yana and V?dh?la might date from around the 7th century BCE.

In any case it took some time for the s?tra style to reach
the condensation level of P??ini, whose date cannot be
much later than c 350 BCE.

Cheers, Asko Parpola


Quoting "Witzel, Michael" <witzel at fas.harvard.edu>:

> Leaving apart the discussion on Prof.Narain and the date of the  
> Buddha, the Upanisads can by no means can be as early as 900 BCE, or  
> eve 800 as some have it:
>
> * the Rgveda is a late Bronze Age text. The Iron Age starts, in the  
> northwestern subcontinent (Panjab etc.), around 1000 BCE.
> * after this text we have the traditional Samhitas, Brahmanas and  
> Arayanyakas: certainly not with 100 years.
>
> * Rather, we know that the language of the Rgveda is followed by 4  
> stages before we reach the level of the Upanisads:
>
> - late Rgveda (book 10),
> - Mantra language: Yajurveda mantras, Samaveda mantras, Atharvaveda,  
> Rgveda Khila
> - Yajurveda prose (Maitr., Katha, Taitt. Samh.)
> - the Brahmanas proper
> - late Brahmanas, Aranyakas, earliest Upanisads (Jaiminiya Upanisad  
> Brahmana, Brhadaranyaka, Chandogya Up. : sic!) + earliest Sutras  
> (Baudhayana Srautasutra)
>
> All of this takes quite a few centuries, whatever the date of the Buddha!
> Literature to be provided, if needed.
>
> Cheers, MW
>
>
> On Jul 15, 2013, at 2:40 PM, Timothy Conway wrote:
>
> The older date allows us to keep very old dates for the pre-Buddhist  
> Upanisads (circa900 BCE for the Brhadaranyaka and Chandogya) and  
> various texts from around the time of the Buddha. Please someone  
> correct me on this if any research has arisen just the past few  
> years to suggest otherwise about the hoary provenance of these most  
> ancient Upanisads. (And no, i'm not referring to the "5,000 year-old  
> Rg Veda" idea.)
>
> --timothy
>
> Timothy Conway, PhD
> Lecturer, Santa Barbara City College, Continuing Education Div.
> 805-569-9927
> ============
> Michael Witzel
> witzel at fas.harvard.edu<mailto:witzel at fas.harvard.edu>
> <www.fas.harvard.edu/~witzel/mwpage.htm<http://www.fas.harvard.edu/%7Ewitzel/mwpage.htm>>
> Wales Prof. of Sanskrit &
> Director of Graduate Studies,
> Dept. of South Asian Studies, Harvard University
> 1 Bow Street,
> Cambridge MA 02138, USA
>
> phone: 1- 617 - 495 3295, fax 617 - 496 8571;
> my direct line:  617- 496 2990








From hr at IVS.EDU  Sat Jul 20 15:59:35 2013
From: hr at IVS.EDU (Howard Resnick)
Date: Sat, 20 Jul 13 08:59:35 -0700
Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_[INDOLOGY]_question_on_B=E1=B9=9Bhat_s=C4=81man?=
In-Reply-To: <C9FFAE1B-EC02-4D2E-9C38-80C24352FF7C@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <E13D3AE3-4EB4-4038-B2A9-393DA52B055B@IVS.EDU>

Thank you!
All the best,
Howard

On Jul 19, 2013, at 7:12 PM, Ashok Aklujkar <ashok.aklujkar at gmail.com> wrote:

> Kevalananda -sarasvati's Miimaa.saa-ko.sa vol. 52975-2979 will provide several potentially helpful references. The notion rathantara frequently associated with  b.rhat-saaman is noted on vol. 6 pp. 3289-3303 of the same.
> 
> a.a.
>>> From: Howard Resnick <hr at ivs.edu>
>>> To: Indology List <indology at list.indology.info> 
>>> Sent: Tuesday, 16 July 2013 3:42 AM
>>> Subject: [INDOLOGY] question
>>> 
>>> In Bhagavad-gita 10.35, Krsna says, "Of sAmans, I am bRhat-sAman?"
>>> 
>>> Could someone kindly explain exactly what the bRhat-sAman is? 
>>> _______________________________________________
>> 
>> _\\



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From hr at IVS.EDU  Sat Jul 20 16:00:19 2013
From: hr at IVS.EDU (Howard Resnick)
Date: Sat, 20 Jul 13 09:00:19 -0700
Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_[INDOLOGY]_=EF=BB=BFquestion_on_B=E1=B9=9Bhat_s=C4=81man?=
In-Reply-To: <1374291320.74390.YahooMailNeo@web193501.mail.sg3.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <392DA6C6-0064-4022-9258-7F3AF22C25F6@IVS.EDU>

Thank you!
Best
Howard

On Jul 19, 2013, at 8:35 PM, Dipak Bhattacharya <dbhattacharya200498 at YAHOO.COM> wrote:

> Dear Mr. Resnick,
> I am sorry that I forgot to reply to your second query. I planned a reply but found little time and then the matter slipped from my mind.. It is more regrettable because in 1984 I had raised the issue of a Brahmana based interpretation of the Vedic ritual against one based on the mantras cited in the Srautasuutras. The Brhat and Rathantara were the illustrations where a Brahmana based interpretation could be misleading. Please see Mythological and ritual symbolism SPB Calcutta 1984:137-138. I caution you that Klaus Mylius wrongly remarked that I had taken the idea of a sutra based interpretation from Renou. You will yourself see the difference from Renou. I have no hesitation in saying that both Mylius (JIP 1989) and Karel Werner (JRAS 1987) were disappointed that they could not determine what I my intention was. I admit my short comings, but your question will be answered.
> Best
> DB
> From: Howard Resnick <hr at IVS.EDU>
> To: "Moore Gerety, Finnian" <fmgerety at fas.harvard.edu> 
> Cc: Indology List <indology at list.indology.info> 
> Sent: Saturday, 20 July 2013 4:04 AM
> Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] ?question on B?hat s?man
> 
> Finn,
> 	Thank you very much for this valuable information. I appreciate it. 
> Best wishes,
> Howard
> 
> On Jul 19, 2013, at 1:35 PM, "Moore Gerety, Finnian" <fmgerety at fas.harvard.edu> wrote:
> 
>> Howard--
>> Thanks to the Br?hma?a obsession with making correlations/identifications/correspondences, you can get some idea of what the B?hat represents in the Veda by examining the entities with which it is correlated. The B?hat and Rathantara are treated as a pair in some of these passages, so that you also get an idea of the entities to which each is opposed. For example (PB 7.6.17, trans. Caland): B is the mind, R  voice; B is the melody, R the verse; B is expiration, R is inspiration; B is yonder world, R is this world. 
>> Caland's translation of the Pa?cavi??a-Br?hma?a has an index of s?man names, so you can easily find all the passages that mention B?hat. The Jaimin?ya-Br?hma?a also has a lot to say about the B?hat; an accessible example is in Caland's Das Jaimin?ya-Br?hma?a in Auswahl ? 25 (p32).
>> 
>> yours,
>> Finn
>> 
>> Finnian Moore Gerety
>> Doctoral Candidate
>> Department of South Asian Studies
>> Harvard University
>> 
>> On 16-Jul-2013, at 3:53 PM, Howard Resnick wrote:
>> 
>>> Thank you very much. Do you know why these verses were called the "Great Saman", brhat-saman?
>>> Best,
>>> Howard
>>> 
>>> On Jul 16, 2013, at 2:09 AM, Dipak Bhattacharya <dbhattacharya200498 at yahoo.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> B?hat and Rathantara are considered two important s?mans in the Pa?cavi??abr?hma?a. B?hat is based on RV.6.46.1,2. See PB 5.1.10ff, 5.2.1,8.9.11 etc.
>>>> Best
>>>> DB
>>>>  
>>>> 
>>>> From: Howard Resnick <hr at ivs.edu>
>>>> To: Indology List <indology at list.indology.info> 
>>>> Sent: Tuesday, 16 July 2013 3:42 AM
>>>> Subject: [INDOLOGY] question
>>>> 
>>>> In Bhagavad-gita 10.35, Krsna says, "Of sAmans, I am bRhat-sAman?"
>>>> 
>>>> Could someone kindly explain exactly what the bRhat-sAman is? 
>>>> 
>>>> Thanks!
>>>> Howard
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>>>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>>>> http://listinfo.indology.info/
>>>> 
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>>> http://listinfo.indology.info/
>> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> http://listinfo.indology.info/
> 



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From gthomgt at gmail.com  Sun Jul 21 02:00:06 2013
From: gthomgt at gmail.com (George Thompson)
Date: Sat, 20 Jul 13 22:00:06 -0400
Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_[INDOLOGY]_question_on_B=E1=B9=9Bhat_s=C4=81man?=
In-Reply-To: <CAP1Y1zsckfSOBD5iydt-szuZe3Z=gdY+GhRquJ7X-8ZmQuJwQw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAP1Y1zvoLKxv_cJp6G-ps_noupNDHswX-2-uj7AZgzrV52pg3w@mail.gmail.com>

On Sat, Jul 20, 2013 at 9:54 PM, George Thompson <gthomgt at gmail.com> wrote:

> Dear Howard,
>
> There are some useful, non-technical discussions of the brhat and
> rathankara samans in Frits Staal's last book : Discovering the Vedas.
> These samans are prominent in the late RV hymn 1.164, the riddle hymn of
> Dirghatamas, a great late-Vedic poet.
>
> Best wishes,
>
> George
>
> On Sat, Jul 20, 2013 at 12:00 PM, Howard Resnick <hr at ivs.edu> wrote:
>
>> Thank you!
>> Best
>> Howard
>>
>> On Jul 19, 2013, at 8:35 PM, Dipak Bhattacharya <
>> dbhattacharya200498 at YAHOO.COM> wrote:
>>
>> Dear Mr. Resnick,
>> I am sorry that I forgot to reply to your second query. I planned a
>> reply but found little time and then the matter slipped from my mind.. It
>> is more regrettable because in 1984 I had raised the issue of a Brahmana
>> based interpretation of the Vedic ritual against one based on the mantras
>> cited in the Srautasuutras. The Brhat and Rathantara were the illustrations
>> where a Brahmana based interpretation could be misleading. Please see
>> Mythological and ritual symbolism SPB Calcutta 1984:137-138. I caution you
>> that Klaus Mylius wrongly remarked that I had taken the idea of a sutra
>> based interpretation from Renou. You will yourself see the difference from
>> Renou. I have no hesitation in saying that both Mylius (JIP 1989) and Karel
>> Werner (JRAS 1987) were disappointed that they could not determine what I
>> my intention was. I admit my short comings, but your question will be
>> answered.
>> Best
>> DB
>>    *From:* Howard Resnick <hr at IVS.EDU>
>> *To:* "Moore Gerety, Finnian" <fmgerety at fas.harvard.edu>
>> *Cc:* Indology List <indology at list.indology.info>
>> *Sent:* Saturday, 20 July 2013 4:04 AM
>> *Subject:* Re: [INDOLOGY] ?question on B?hat s?man
>>
>> Finn,
>> Thank you very much for this valuable information. I appreciate it.
>> Best wishes,
>> Howard
>>
>> On Jul 19, 2013, at 1:35 PM, "Moore Gerety, Finnian" <
>> fmgerety at fas.harvard.edu> wrote:
>>
>>  Howard--
>> Thanks to the Br?hma?a obsession with making
>> correlations/identifications/correspondences, you can get some idea of what
>> the B?hat represents in the Veda by examining the entities with which it is
>> correlated. The B?hat and Rathantara are treated as a pair in some of these
>> passages, so that you also get an idea of the entities to which each is
>> opposed. For example (PB 7.6.17, trans. Caland): B is the mind, R  voice; B
>> is the melody, R the verse; B is expiration, R is inspiration; B is yonder
>> world, R is this world.
>> Caland's translation of the Pa?cavi??a-Br?hma?a has an index of s?man
>> names, so you can easily find all the passages that mention B?hat. The
>> Jaimin?ya-Br?hma?a also has a lot to say about the B?hat; an accessible
>> example is in Caland's *Das Jaimin?ya-Br?hma?a in Auswahl *? 25 (p32).
>>
>>  yours,
>> Finn
>>
>>  Finnian Moore Gerety
>> Doctoral Candidate
>> Department of South Asian Studies
>> Harvard University
>>
>>  On 16-Jul-2013, at 3:53 PM, Howard Resnick wrote:
>>
>>  Thank you very much. Do you know why these verses were called the
>> "Great Saman", brhat-saman?
>> Best,
>> Howard
>>
>>  On Jul 16, 2013, at 2:09 AM, Dipak Bhattacharya <
>> dbhattacharya200498 at yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>>  B?hat and Rathantara are considered two important s?mans in the Pa?cavi
>> ??abr?hma?a. B?hat is based on RV.6.46.1,2. See PB 5.1.10ff,
>> 5.2.1,8.9.11 etc.
>> Best
>>  DB
>>
>>
>>    *From:* Howard Resnick <hr at ivs.edu>
>> *To:* Indology List <indology at list.indology.info>
>> *Sent:* Tuesday, 16 July 2013 3:42 AM
>> *Subject:* [INDOLOGY] question
>>
>> In Bhagavad-gita 10.35, Krsna says, "Of sAmans, I am bRhat-sAman?"
>>
>> Could someone kindly explain exactly what the bRhat-sAman is?
>>
>> Thanks!
>> Howard
>> _______________________________________________
>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>> http://listinfo.indology.info/
>>
>>
>>  _______________________________________________
>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>> http://listinfo.indology.info/
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>> http://listinfo.indology.info/
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>> http://listinfo.indology.info
>>
>
>


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From hr at ivs.edu  Sun Jul 21 02:50:18 2013
From: hr at ivs.edu (Howard Resnick)
Date: Sat, 20 Jul 13 19:50:18 -0700
Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_[INDOLOGY]_question_on_B=E1=B9=9Bhat_s=C4=81man?=
In-Reply-To: <CAP1Y1zsckfSOBD5iydt-szuZe3Z=gdY+GhRquJ7X-8ZmQuJwQw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <AD423B4A-7C96-49C5-9376-A94B81BEBFA1@ivs.edu>

Much appreciated. My sincere thanks to George, Finn, Ashok and Dipak who have very kindly responded to my appeal. Bhadram astu vaH!
Howard

On Jul 20, 2013, at 6:54 PM, George Thompson <gthomgt at gmail.com> wrote:

> Dear Howard,
>  
> There are some useful, non-technical discussions of the brhat and rathankara samans in Frits Staal's last book : Discovering the Vedas.  These samans are prominent in the late RV hymn 1.164, the riddle hymn of Dirghatamas, a great late-Vedic poet.
>  
> Best wishes,
>  
> George
> 
> On Sat, Jul 20, 2013 at 12:00 PM, Howard Resnick <hr at ivs.edu> wrote:
> Thank you!
> Best
> Howard
> 
> On Jul 19, 2013, at 8:35 PM, Dipak Bhattacharya <dbhattacharya200498 at YAHOO.COM> wrote:
> 
>> Dear Mr. Resnick,
>> I am sorry that I forgot to reply to your second query. I planned a reply but found little time and then the matter slipped from my mind.. It is more regrettable because in 1984 I had raised the issue of a Brahmana based interpretation of the Vedic ritual against one based on the mantras cited in the Srautasuutras. The Brhat and Rathantara were the illustrations where a Brahmana based interpretation could be misleading. Please see Mythological and ritual symbolism SPB Calcutta 1984:137-138. I caution you that Klaus Mylius wrongly remarked that I had taken the idea of a sutra based interpretation from Renou. You will yourself see the difference from Renou. I have no hesitation in saying that both Mylius (JIP 1989) and Karel Werner (JRAS 1987) were disappointed that they could not determine what I my intention was. I admit my short comings, but your question will be answered.
>> Best
>> DB
>> From: Howard Resnick <hr at IVS.EDU>
>> To: "Moore Gerety, Finnian" <fmgerety at fas.harvard.edu> 
>> Cc: Indology List <indology at list.indology.info> 
>> Sent: Saturday, 20 July 2013 4:04 AM
>> Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] ?question on B?hat s?man
>> 
>> Finn,
>> 	Thank you very much for this valuable information. I appreciate it. 
>> Best wishes,
>> Howard
>> 
>> On Jul 19, 2013, at 1:35 PM, "Moore Gerety, Finnian" <fmgerety at fas.harvard.edu> wrote:
>> 
>>> Howard--
>>> Thanks to the Br?hma?a obsession with making correlations/identifications/correspondences, you can get some idea of what the B?hat represents in the Veda by examining the entities with which it is correlated. The B?hat and Rathantara are treated as a pair in some of these passages, so that you also get an idea of the entities to which each is opposed. For example (PB 7.6.17, trans. Caland): B is the mind, R  voice; B is the melody, R the verse; B is expiration, R is inspiration; B is yonder world, R is this world. 
>>> Caland's translation of the Pa?cavi??a-Br?hma?a has an index of s?man names, so you can easily find all the passages that mention B?hat. The Jaimin?ya-Br?hma?a also has a lot to say about the B?hat; an accessible example is in Caland's Das Jaimin?ya-Br?hma?a in Auswahl ? 25 (p32).
>>> 
>>> yours,
>>> Finn
>>> 
>>> Finnian Moore Gerety
>>> Doctoral Candidate
>>> Department of South Asian Studies
>>> Harvard University
>>> 
>>> On 16-Jul-2013, at 3:53 PM, Howard Resnick wrote:
>>> 
>>>> Thank you very much. Do you know why these verses were called the "Great Saman", brhat-saman?
>>>> Best,
>>>> Howard
>>>> 
>>>> On Jul 16, 2013, at 2:09 AM, Dipak Bhattacharya <dbhattacharya200498 at yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> B?hat and Rathantara are considered two important s?mans in the Pa?cavi??abr?hma?a. B?hat is based on RV.6.46.1,2. See PB 5.1.10ff, 5.2.1,8.9.11 etc.
>>>>> Best
>>>>> DB
>>>>>  
>>>>> 
>>>>> From: Howard Resnick <hr at ivs.edu>
>>>>> To: Indology List <indology at list.indology.info> 
>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, 16 July 2013 3:42 AM
>>>>> Subject: [INDOLOGY] question
>>>>> 
>>>>> In Bhagavad-gita 10.35, Krsna says, "Of sAmans, I am bRhat-sAman?"
>>>>> 
>>>>> Could someone kindly explain exactly what the bRhat-sAman is? 
>>>>> 
>>>>> Thanks!
>>>>> Howard
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>>>>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>>>>> http://listinfo.indology.info/
>>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>>>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>>>> http://listinfo.indology.info/
>>> 
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>> http://listinfo.indology.info/
>> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> http://listinfo.indology.info
> 



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From kauzeya at gmail.com  Tue Jul 23 08:15:27 2013
From: kauzeya at gmail.com (Jonathan Silk)
Date: Tue, 23 Jul 13 10:15:27 +0200
Subject: [INDOLOGY] scribal self-recitation while copying
Message-ID: <CAMGmO4++RNSJMCwLsg_eVm1fVOveNB4URBWuF2mxYKZGSiPccQ@mail.gmail.com>

dear Colleagues.

Recently I told a student that errors in transcription which appear prima
facie to be due to oral recitation may well also stem from copying a
written exemplar, since scribes are known to recite to themselves, as it
were, when copying. I think/thought that this was well known, but she tells
me that she's looked around and not found a discussion of this idea. I have
no idea now where I learnt it (although i believe it to be true). Any
references?

thanks so much, jonathan

-- 
J. Silk
Instituut Kern / Universiteit Leiden
Leiden University Institute for Area Studies, LIAS
Johan Huizinga Building, Room 1.37
Doelensteeg 16
2311 VL Leiden
The Netherlands

copies of my publications may be found at
http://www.buddhismandsocialjustice.com/silk_publications.html


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From andreaacri at mac.com  Tue Jul 23 08:53:33 2013
From: andreaacri at mac.com (Andrea Acri)
Date: Tue, 23 Jul 13 08:53:33 +0000
Subject: [INDOLOGY] scribal self-recitation while copying
In-Reply-To: <CAMGmO4++RNSJMCwLsg_eVm1fVOveNB4URBWuF2mxYKZGSiPccQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1e8ff988-e5ce-4f39-9a1a-85d9ba86b5bf@me.com>

Dear Jonathan,

I have discussed this very briefly on p. 65 of my book 'Dharma P?ta?jala? (Groningen: Egbert Forsten, 2011), referring to A. Dain?s 'Les Manuscrits? (first ed. 1949, second ed. 1964, reprint 1975 etc.), in particular pp. 20?22 and 43?46.?

All best,

Andrea
Sent from iCloud

On Jul 23, 2013, at 04:15 PM, Jonathan Silk <kauzeya at gmail.com> wrote:

dear Colleagues.

Recently I told a student that errors in transcription which appear prima facie to be due to oral recitation may well also stem from copying a written exemplar, since scribes are known to recite to themselves, as it were, when copying. I think/thought that this was well known, but she tells me that she's looked around and not found a discussion of this idea. I have no idea now where I learnt it (although i believe it to be true). Any references?

thanks so much, jonathan

-- 
J. Silk
Instituut Kern / Universiteit Leiden
Leiden University Institute for Area Studies, LIAS
Johan Huizinga Building, Room 1.37
Doelensteeg 16
2311 VL Leiden
The Netherlands

copies of my publications may be found at
http://www.buddhismandsocialjustice.com/silk_publications.html
_______________________________________________
INDOLOGY mailing list
INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
http://listinfo.indology.info


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From kauzeya at gmail.com  Tue Jul 23 08:58:41 2013
From: kauzeya at gmail.com (Jonathan Silk)
Date: Tue, 23 Jul 13 10:58:41 +0200
Subject: [INDOLOGY] scribal self-recitation while copying
In-Reply-To: <1e8ff988-e5ce-4f39-9a1a-85d9ba86b5bf@me.com>
Message-ID: <CAMGmO4Lt5myAgciC5mfb4QcThicKfjgqA7ZTrhdoD4ROr5tghQ@mail.gmail.com>

dear Andrea,

Thanks, perhaps after all I remembered it from reading your thesis! :) [But
I think it has been discussed elsewhere as well...]

jonathan


On Tue, Jul 23, 2013 at 10:53 AM, Andrea Acri <andreaacri at mac.com> wrote:

> Dear Jonathan,
>
> I have discussed this very briefly on p. 65 of my book 'Dharma P?ta?jala?
> (Groningen: Egbert Forsten, 2011), referring to A. Dain?s 'Les Manuscrits?
> (first ed. 1949, second ed. 1964, reprint 1975 etc.), in particular pp.
> 20?22 and 43?46.
>
> All best,
>
> Andrea
>
> Sent from iCloud
>
>
> On Jul 23, 2013, at 04:15 PM, Jonathan Silk <kauzeya at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> dear Colleagues.
>
> Recently I told a student that errors in transcription which appear prima
> facie to be due to oral recitation may well also stem from copying a
> written exemplar, since scribes are known to recite to themselves, as it
> were, when copying. I think/thought that this was well known, but she tells
> me that she's looked around and not found a discussion of this idea. I have
> no idea now where I learnt it (although i believe it to be true). Any
> references?
>
> thanks so much, jonathan
>
> --
> J. Silk
> Instituut Kern / Universiteit Leiden
> Leiden University Institute for Area Studies, LIAS
> Johan Huizinga Building, Room 1.37
> Doelensteeg 16
> 2311 VL Leiden
> The Netherlands
>
> copies of my publications may be found at
> http://www.buddhismandsocialjustice.com/silk_publications.html
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> http://listinfo.indology.info
>
>


-- 
J. Silk
Instituut Kern / Universiteit Leiden
Leiden University Institute for Area Studies, LIAS
Johan Huizinga Building, Room 1.37
Doelensteeg 16
2311 VL Leiden
The Netherlands

copies of my publications may be found at
http://www.buddhismandsocialjustice.com/silk_publications.html


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From BrodbeckSP at cardiff.ac.uk  Tue Jul 23 09:12:01 2013
From: BrodbeckSP at cardiff.ac.uk (Simon Brodbeck)
Date: Tue, 23 Jul 13 10:12:01 +0100
Subject: [INDOLOGY] scribal self-recitation while copying
In-Reply-To: <CAMGmO4++RNSJMCwLsg_eVm1fVOveNB4URBWuF2mxYKZGSiPccQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <OF3AA60C13.54BAFE11-ON80257BB1.00328A09-80257BB1.00328A0E@cardiff.ac.uk>

Dear Jonathan,

"Prima facie" is a funny term for this! 

I always imagined that the best way to reproduce a manuscript would be for one person to read it, and the other person to write down what they hear.

All the best, 

Simon Brodbeck
Cardiff University


?

-----"INDOLOGY" <indology-bounces at list.indology.info> wrote: -----
To: Indology <indology at list.indology.info>
From: Jonathan Silk 
Sent by: "INDOLOGY" 
Date: 23/07/2013 09:15
Subject: [INDOLOGY] scribal self-recitation while copying

dear Colleagues.

Recently I told a student that errors in transcription which appear prima facie to be due to oral recitation may well also stem from copying a written exemplar, since scribes are known to recite to themselves, as it were, when copying. I think/thought that this was well known, but she tells me that she's looked around and not found a discussion of this idea. I have no idea now where I learnt it (although i believe it to be true). Any references? 

thanks so much, jonathan

-- 
J. Silk
Instituut Kern / Universiteit Leiden
 
Leiden University Institute for Area Studies, LIAS 
Johan Huizinga Building, Room 1.37 
Doelensteeg 16 
2311 VL Leiden 
The Netherlands

copies of my publications may be found at
http://www.buddhismandsocialjustice.com/silk_publications.html   
_______________________________________________
INDOLOGY mailing list
INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
http://listinfo.indology.info


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From fleming_b4 at hotmail.com  Tue Jul 23 11:51:22 2013
From: fleming_b4 at hotmail.com (Benjamin Fleming)
Date: Tue, 23 Jul 13 07:51:22 -0400
Subject: [INDOLOGY] scribal self-recitation while copying
In-Reply-To: <CAMGmO4++RNSJMCwLsg_eVm1fVOveNB4URBWuF2mxYKZGSiPccQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BLU0-SMTP1742C461D535A81F7338993A46F0@phx.gbl>

Dear Jonathan,

While not discussed in a South Asian context Harry Gamble's book: Books and
Readers in the Early Church: A History of Early Christian Texts contains
some discussion of the phenomenon you refer to. See especially pp. 88-90.
Though there may be more discussion than this.

http://www.amazon.com/Books-Readers-Early-Church-Christian/dp/0300069189

I hope this helps.

Best,
Ben
-- 

Benjamin Fleming, 
Visiting Scholar, Dept. of Religious Studies;
Cataloger of Indic Manuscripts, Rare Book & Manuscript Library;
University of Pennsylvania 249 S. 36th Street,
201 Claudia Cohen Hall
Philadelphia, PA 19104 U.S.A.
Telephone - 215-900-5744
http://www.sas.upenn.edu/religious_studies/faculty/fleming
http://www.sas.upenn.edu/~bfleming
http://www.benjaminfleming.com


From:  Jonathan Silk <kauzeya at gmail.com>
Date:  mardi 23 juillet 2013 04:15
To:  Indology <indology at list.indology.info>
Subject:  [INDOLOGY] scribal self-recitation while copying

dear Colleagues.

Recently I told a student that errors in transcription which appear prima
facie to be due to oral recitation may well also stem from copying a written
exemplar, since scribes are known to recite to themselves, as it were, when
copying. I think/thought that this was well known, but she tells me that
she's looked around and not found a discussion of this idea. I have no idea
now where I learnt it (although i believe it to be true). Any references?

thanks so much, jonathan

-- 
J. Silk
Instituut Kern / Universiteit Leiden
Leiden University Institute for Area Studies, LIAS
Johan Huizinga Building, Room 1.37
Doelensteeg 16
2311 VL Leiden
The Netherlands

copies of my publications may be found at
http://www.buddhismandsocialjustice.com/silk_publications.html
_______________________________________________ INDOLOGY mailing list
INDOLOGY at list.indology.info http://listinfo.indology.info



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From kiepue at t-online.de  Tue Jul 23 12:01:23 2013
From: kiepue at t-online.de (=?utf-8?Q?petra_kieffer-p=C3=BClz?=)
Date: Tue, 23 Jul 13 14:01:23 +0200
Subject: [INDOLOGY] pali course 2013
Message-ID: <AF546339-E63B-4800-BD98-570E573F112B@t-online.de>

Entsprechend der ge?nderten Nachfrage wird der Pali-Intensivkurs 2013 in Halle (Deutschland) nun als Anf?ngerkurs durchgef?hrt.

In line with demand the Intensive Pali course 2013 in Halle (Germany) will be a course for beginners.

Regards,

Petra Kieffer-P?lz


Intensivkurs Pali 2013 - Intensive Pali course 2013 

Internationale Sommerschule 2013 in Halle/Saale - International summer school 2013 in Halle/Saale (Germany)

Pali-Anf?ngerkurs - Pali course for beginners

Dozent - Lecturer: Dr. Petra Kieffer-P?lz

Zeit - Time:  02.-13.09.2013

Ort: - Place: M?hlweg 15, 06114 Halle, SR, 1. OG

Anmeldung - Application: bis/till 20.08.2013: katrin.einicke at indologie.uni-halle.de

Teilnehmer - Participants: Offen f?r jedermann - Open to everybody

Unterrichtssprache - Language of instruction: Deutsch - German

Eigenanteil - tuition:  200,-?  Die Unterkunft  und Verpflegung sind nicht in der Organisation enthalten - Accomodation and meals are not included.

F?r weitere Informationen - For more details see http://www.indologie.uni-halle.de/aktuelles/


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From alanus1216 at yahoo.com  Wed Jul 24 02:56:58 2013
From: alanus1216 at yahoo.com (Allen Thrasher)
Date: Tue, 23 Jul 13 19:56:58 -0700
Subject: [INDOLOGY] scribal self-recitation while copying
In-Reply-To: <OF3AA60C13.54BAFE11-ON80257BB1.00328A09-80257BB1.00328A0E@cardiff.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <1374634618.62517.YahooMailNeo@web163001.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>

Pursuing Simon's comment, I wonder if there is any evidence that scribal workshops would ever produce many copies of a work at one time, with a single reader and a number of scribes.? I believe this is attested in the Roman world, but can't give any citations.? Presumably there would be a market for standard classics (e.g. the Gita) that in some circumstances would justify producing them in advance of specific individual orders.? It is also possible that new works might gain a reputation generating a demand for many copies quickly, or that a patron might pay for many copies for free distribution.? But everything I recall reading seems to assume that copies were produced singly.? It?need not even be a question of one person recruiting scribes so to speak off the street; it could also be a workshop of a scribe and his sons (younger brothers, nephews, etc.), a family operation.
?
Allen

INDOLOGY mailing list
INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
http://listinfo.indology.info/


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From fleming_b4 at hotmail.com  Wed Jul 24 03:29:59 2013
From: fleming_b4 at hotmail.com (Benjamin Fleming)
Date: Tue, 23 Jul 13 23:29:59 -0400
Subject: [INDOLOGY] scribal self-recitation while copying
In-Reply-To: <1374634618.62517.YahooMailNeo@web163001.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <BLU0-SMTP478F6486F54638A0282806DA4680@phx.gbl>

Interesting suggestion. I have certainly seen examples, in Penn's
collection, where there is a second and/or third scribal hand in a single
manuscript that is clearly inexperienced and possibly that of a child. See
for instance this record for a short work attributed to the Skandapur??a
(Ms. Coll. 390, Item 1459):

http://dla.library.upenn.edu/dla/medren/record.html?q=scribes&id=MEDREN_5837
501& 

We also have an almost complete copy of the ?gVeda (Ms. Coll. 390 Item 81)
where three different scribal names are mentioned throughout the colophons
of the text, two writing the text and a third adding the accents.

http://dla.library.upenn.edu/dla/medren/record.html?q=item%2081&id=MEDREN_51
78685& 

A comprehensive compilation of such records might well be illuminating with
respect to manuscript workshops, etc.

Best,
B
-- 

Benjamin Fleming, 
Visiting Scholar, Dept. of Religious Studies;
Cataloger of Indic Manuscripts, Rare Book & Manuscript Library;
University of Pennsylvania 249 S. 36th Street,
201 Claudia Cohen Hall
Philadelphia, PA 19104 U.S.A.
Telephone - 215-900-5744
http://www.sas.upenn.edu/religious_studies/faculty/fleming
http://www.sas.upenn.edu/~bfleming
http://www.benjaminfleming.com


From:  Allen Thrasher <alanus1216 at yahoo.com>
Reply-To:  Allen Thrasher <alanus1216 at yahoo.com>
Date:  mardi 23 juillet 2013 22:56
To:  Indology <indology at list.indology.info>
Subject:  Re: [INDOLOGY] scribal self-recitation while copying

Pursuing Simon's comment, I wonder if there is any evidence that scribal
workshops would ever produce many copies of a work at one time, with a
single reader and a number of scribes.  I believe this is attested in the
Roman world, but can't give any citations.  Presumably there would be a
market for standard classics (e.g. the Gita) that in some circumstances
would justify producing them in advance of specific individual orders.  It
is also possible that new works might gain a reputation generating a demand
for many copies quickly, or that a patron might pay for many copies for free
distribution.  But everything I recall reading seems to assume that copies
were produced singly.  It need not even be a question of one person
recruiting scribes so to speak off the street; it could also be a workshop
of a scribe and his sons (younger brothers, nephews, etc.), a family
operation.
 
Allen

INDOLOGY mailing list
INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
http://listinfo.indology.info/

    
_______________________________________________ INDOLOGY mailing list
INDOLOGY at list.indology.info http://listinfo.indology.info



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From ashok.aklujkar at gmail.com  Wed Jul 24 05:20:28 2013
From: ashok.aklujkar at gmail.com (Ashok Aklujkar)
Date: Tue, 23 Jul 13 22:20:28 -0700
Subject: [INDOLOGY] scribal self-recitation while copying
In-Reply-To: <1374634618.62517.YahooMailNeo@web163001.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <F4A1F9E0-DD6D-45EE-BB4F-0D4B00F3F340@gmail.com>


On 2013-07-23, at 7:56 PM, Allen Thrasher wrote:

...  I wonder if there is any evidence that scribal workshops would ever produce many copies of a work at one time, with a single reader and a number of scribes. ... Presumably there would be a market for standard classics (e.g. the Gita) that in some circumstances would justify producing them in advance of specific individual orders.  ... But everything I recall reading seems to assume that copies were produced singly.  It need not even be a question of one person recruiting scribes so to speak off the street; it could also be a workshop of a scribe and his sons (younger brothers, nephews, etc.), a family operation.<


As I recall, king Kurmaarapaala of northern Gujarat is said to have arranged one thousand scribes to produce one thousand copies of Hema-candra's grammar, ;Sabdaanu;saasana, soon after it was completed. There is documentary evidence for this, but I cannot put my hands on it at present. Perhaps Georg Buehler's Life of Hema-candra specifies the source. 

In the late 1920s, when travelling teams went to collect manuscripts in the Madras Presidency, those collected manuscripts which were to be returned to their owners were copied (i.e., transcribed into Nagari on paper) at Madras with one pandit reading and another pandit writing the heard text. Then they usually reversed roles and the faithfulness of the transcription was ascertained (or a more experienced pandit was requested to check the accuracy of the transcription) before the manuscript was returned. You still see evidence of this in several transcripts in the GOML and at Adyar Library and Research Centre with the names of pandits specified and the date of completion of the process written at the end.Confirming signatures also appear. 

It is quite likely that at places of pilgrimage the Kaayastha families kept a few extra copies of popular texts on hand to sell to pilgrims. 

a.a.


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From tylerwwilliams at gmail.com  Wed Jul 24 12:28:17 2013
From: tylerwwilliams at gmail.com (Tyler Williams)
Date: Wed, 24 Jul 13 14:28:17 +0200
Subject: [INDOLOGY] scribal self-recitation while copying
In-Reply-To: <F4A1F9E0-DD6D-45EE-BB4F-0D4B00F3F340@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAHRgzy1k-7AsRei-q2w4UwsLDmmxKx_Q1FbVxH=YcfaR2-=raQ@mail.gmail.com>

Dear all,

There is, of course, quite a bit of variation in scribal practices over
time and region; at various places and times there is documented evidence
of, or oblique references, to scribes working singly, collectively, with
reciters, and without reciters, and with the establishment of Islamicate
courts in northern India, ateliers on the model of the kar-khana.  There
were significant differences in practice between, say, monks working in a
temple or monastic institution, itinerant Kashmiri scribes that travelled
singly or in groups around northern India, copying texts for a fee, and
court 'scribes' (who were actually much more), who have received a good bit
of attention from O'Hanlon and Minkowski. The question of mass-produced
manuscripts is an interesting one that has received a little bit of
attention in the Jain context; some helpful sources on these and other
questions include:

Cort, John E. 1995. ?The Jain Knowledge Warehouses: Traditional Libraries
in India.? *Journal of the American Oriental Society* 115 (1): 10.

Data, Kali Kumar. 1971. ?The Ritual of Manuscripts.? *Our Heritage:
Bulletin of the Department of Post-Graduate Training and Research, Sanskrit
College, Calcutta *19 (1).

Losty, Jeremiah P. 1982. *The art of the book in India*. London: British
Library.

Data's article sites a number of texts that give normative prescriptions
for how a text used for ritual performance was to be copied.  Losty
discusses a period and genre of mass-produced stereotyped Jain manuscripts.

Most references are, unfortunately, terse and scattered.  For South Asia,
more work has been done on scribal practices among the Persianate elites;
for Europe the body of research is quite significant.

Best,

Tyler Williams

Columbia University


On Wed, Jul 24, 2013 at 7:20 AM, Ashok Aklujkar <ashok.aklujkar at gmail.com>wrote:

>
> On 2013-07-23, at 7:56 PM, Allen Thrasher wrote:
>
> ...  I wonder if there is any evidence that scribal workshops would ever
> produce many copies of a work at one time, with a single reader and a
> number of scribes. ... Presumably there would be a market for standard
> classics (e.g. the Gita) that in some circumstances would justify producing
> them in advance of specific individual orders.  ... But everything I recall
> reading seems to assume that copies were produced singly.  It need not even
> be a question of one person recruiting scribes so to speak off the street;
> it could also be a workshop of a scribe and his sons (younger brothers,
> nephews, etc.), a family operation.<
>
>
> As I recall, king Kurmaarapaala of northern Gujarat is said to have
> arranged one thousand scribes to produce one thousand copies of
> Hema-candra's grammar, ;Sabdaanu;saasana, soon after it was completed.
> There is documentary evidence for this, but I cannot put my hands on it at
> present. Perhaps Georg Buehler's Life of Hema-candra specifies the source.
>
> In the late 1920s, when travelling teams went to collect manuscripts in
> the Madras Presidency, those collected manuscripts which were to be
> returned to their owners were copied (i.e., transcribed into Nagari on
> paper) at Madras with one pandit reading and another pandit writing the
> heard text. Then they usually reversed roles and the faithfulness of the
> transcription was ascertained (or a more experienced pandit was requested
> to check the accuracy of the transcription) before the manuscript was
> returned. You still see evidence of this in several transcripts in the GOML
> and at Adyar Library and Research Centre with the names of pandits
> specified and the date of completion of the process written at the
> end.Confirming signatures also appear.
>
> It is quite likely that at places of pilgrimage the Kaayastha families
> kept a few extra copies of popular texts on hand to sell to pilgrims.
>
> a.a.
>
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> http://listinfo.indology.info
>


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From palaniappa at aol.com  Fri Jul 26 06:01:39 2013
From: palaniappa at aol.com (palaniappa at aol.com)
Date: Fri, 26 Jul 13 02:01:39 -0400
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Three articles
Message-ID: <8D057DCBAA82D0D-167C-1941B@Webmail-m107.sysops.aol.com>

Dear Indologists,


I need the following three articles.


1. S. Krishnaswami Aiyangar, 'Tiruma?kai-A?v?r and his date', Indian Antiquary, vol. 35, pp.285-93.


2. S. Krishnaswami Aiyangar, 'Tiruma?kai-A?v?r and Danti -Durga', Quartely Journal of the Mythic Society, vol. 12, 1921-2


3. K. G. Sesha Ayyar, 'Tiruma?kai-A?v?r and Danti -Durga', Journal of the Mythic Society, vol. 9, No. 4.


Apparently, the articles of S. Krishnaswami Aiyangar are also reprinted in Ancient India and South Indian History and Culture, vol. 2: south Indian History and Culture, Poona, 1941, pp. 736-62.


I would appreciate if anybody can send me these articles as PDF if possible.


Thanks in advance


Regards,
Palaniappan 


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From wujastyk at gmail.com  Sun Jul 28 00:54:58 2013
From: wujastyk at gmail.com (Dominik Wujastyk)
Date: Sun, 28 Jul 13 02:54:58 +0200
Subject: [INDOLOGY] scribal self-recitation while copying
In-Reply-To: <CAHRgzy1k-7AsRei-q2w4UwsLDmmxKx_Q1FbVxH=YcfaR2-=raQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAKdt-Ccx0yka_EnhhKJCbEWP33z3vMibKmbWtkPtD1CXGq6dmg@mail.gmail.com>

I haven't read Data's 1971 article, but in the other citations I don't
recall detailed documentation for the interesting 4-5 modes of copying and
3 types of copyists that you mention.  Could you point to the documented
evidence for each, please?

Many thanks,
Dominik Wujastyk


On 24 July 2013 14:28, Tyler Williams <tylerwwilliams at gmail.com> wrote:

> Dear all,
>
> There is, of course, quite a bit of variation in scribal practices over
> time and region; at various places and times there is documented evidence
> of, or oblique references, to scribes working singly, collectively, with
> reciters, and without reciters, and with the establishment of Islamicate
> courts in northern India, ateliers on the model of the kar-khana.  There
> were significant differences in practice between, say, monks working in a
> temple or monastic institution, itinerant Kashmiri scribes that travelled
> singly or in groups around northern India, copying texts for a fee, and
> court 'scribes' (who were actually much more), who have received a good bit
> of attention from O'Hanlon and Minkowski. The question of mass-produced
> manuscripts is an interesting one that has received a little bit of
> attention in the Jain context; some helpful sources on these and other
> questions include:
>
> Cort, John E. 1995. ?The Jain Knowledge Warehouses: Traditional Libraries
> in India.? *Journal of the American Oriental Society* 115 (1): 10.
>
> Data, Kali Kumar. 1971. ?The Ritual of Manuscripts.? *Our Heritage:
> Bulletin of the Department of Post-Graduate Training and Research, Sanskrit
> College, Calcutta *19 (1).
>
> Losty, Jeremiah P. 1982. *The art of the book in India*. London: British
> Library.
>
> Data's article sites a number of texts that give normative prescriptions
> for how a text used for ritual performance was to be copied.  Losty
> discusses a period and genre of mass-produced stereotyped Jain manuscripts.
>
> Most references are, unfortunately, terse and scattered.  For South Asia,
> more work has been done on scribal practices among the Persianate elites;
> for Europe the body of research is quite significant.
>
> Best,
>
> Tyler Williams
>
> Columbia University
>
>
> On Wed, Jul 24, 2013 at 7:20 AM, Ashok Aklujkar <ashok.aklujkar at gmail.com>wrote:
>
>>
>> On 2013-07-23, at 7:56 PM, Allen Thrasher wrote:
>>
>> ...  I wonder if there is any evidence that scribal workshops would ever
>> produce many copies of a work at one time, with a single reader and a
>> number of scribes. ... Presumably there would be a market for standard
>> classics (e.g. the Gita) that in some circumstances would justify producing
>> them in advance of specific individual orders.  ... But everything I recall
>> reading seems to assume that copies were produced singly.  It need not even
>> be a question of one person recruiting scribes so to speak off the street;
>> it could also be a workshop of a scribe and his sons (younger brothers,
>> nephews, etc.), a family operation.<
>>
>>
>> As I recall, king Kurmaarapaala of northern Gujarat is said to have
>> arranged one thousand scribes to produce one thousand copies of
>> Hema-candra's grammar, ;Sabdaanu;saasana, soon after it was completed.
>> There is documentary evidence for this, but I cannot put my hands on it at
>> present. Perhaps Georg Buehler's Life of Hema-candra specifies the source.
>>
>> In the late 1920s, when travelling teams went to collect manuscripts in
>> the Madras Presidency, those collected manuscripts which were to be
>> returned to their owners were copied (i.e., transcribed into Nagari on
>> paper) at Madras with one pandit reading and another pandit writing the
>> heard text. Then they usually reversed roles and the faithfulness of the
>> transcription was ascertained (or a more experienced pandit was requested
>> to check the accuracy of the transcription) before the manuscript was
>> returned. You still see evidence of this in several transcripts in the GOML
>> and at Adyar Library and Research Centre with the names of pandits
>> specified and the date of completion of the process written at the
>> end.Confirming signatures also appear.
>>
>> It is quite likely that at places of pilgrimage the Kaayastha families
>> kept a few extra copies of popular texts on hand to sell to pilgrims.
>>
>> a.a.
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>>
>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>> http://listinfo.indology.info
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> http://listinfo.indology.info
>


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From cardonagj at verizon.net  Sun Jul 28 20:46:02 2013
From: cardonagj at verizon.net (George Cardona)
Date: Sun, 28 Jul 13 16:46:02 -0400
Subject: [INDOLOGY] publication
Message-ID: <A0ABFC0C-E827-4E9C-A73F-04C4DCF77B6B@verizon.net>

Colleagues, The proceedings of the vy?kara?a section of the XVth World Sanskrit Conference, entitled Vy?kara?a across the Ages, have been published by D. K. Printworld, Delhi.  Information, including a table of contents, can be viewed at the publisher's web site: http://dkprintworld.com/product-detail.php?pid=1280857209. Regards, George Cardona



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From malhar at iitb.ac.in  Mon Jul 29 06:19:51 2013
From: malhar at iitb.ac.in (Malhar Arvind Kulkarni)
Date: Mon, 29 Jul 13 11:49:51 +0530
Subject: [INDOLOGY] publication
In-Reply-To: <A0ABFC0C-E827-4E9C-A73F-04C4DCF77B6B@verizon.net>
Message-ID: <87fa1a2d257a5c87fb13b1dd20c84245.squirrel@gpo.iitb.ac.in>

Dear All,

My teacher, Prof.S.D.Joshi passed away this morning in Pune. Salutations
to the Master!

Malhar Kulkarni.


> Colleagues, The proceedings of the vy?kara?a section of the XVth World
> Sanskrit Conference, entitled Vy?kara?a across the Ages, have been
> published by D. K. Printworld, Delhi.  Information, including a table of
> contents, can be viewed at the publisher's web site:
> http://dkprintworld.com/product-detail.php?pid=1280857209. Regards, George
> Cardona
>
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> http://listinfo.indology.info









From wujastyk at gmail.com  Mon Jul 29 09:33:16 2013
From: wujastyk at gmail.com (Dominik Wujastyk)
Date: Mon, 29 Jul 13 11:33:16 +0200
Subject: [INDOLOGY] publication
In-Reply-To: <87fa1a2d257a5c87fb13b1dd20c84245.squirrel@gpo.iitb.ac.in>
Message-ID: <CAKdt-CfKvi7uh=Z8ua1iRqzr+5vW3iF3xvHt+k0bae5oYkKbWQ@mail.gmail.com>

On 29 July 2013 08:19, Malhar Arvind Kulkarni <malhar at iitb.ac.in> wrote:

> Dear All,
>
> My teacher, Prof.S.D.Joshi passed away this morning in Pune. Salutations
> to the Master!
>
> Malhar Kulkarni.
>

?I am very sad to hear this news.  Prof. Joshi was, I think many will
agree, a genius.  His knowledge of vy?kara?a was deep and subtle.  Yet his
great mastery did not prevent him from being a kind and supportive teacher
towards beginners.  I will always be grateful to him for his teaching, and
especially for suggesting my PhD topic and guiding me initially in it.

In sadness,
Dominik Wujastyk


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From cardonagj at verizon.net  Mon Jul 29 10:34:38 2013
From: cardonagj at verizon.net (George Cardona)
Date: Mon, 29 Jul 13 06:34:38 -0400
Subject: [INDOLOGY] publication
In-Reply-To: <87fa1a2d257a5c87fb13b1dd20c84245.squirrel@gpo.iitb.ac.in>
Message-ID: <876AC442-000C-4EA3-9811-273BF0678E62@verizon.net>

I extend my sympathies to you on this loss. I knew Prof. S. D. Joshi for a long time, from 1963, and we exchanged ideas fairly often.  Though I often disagreed with his conclusions on particular issues, I have always had the highest respect for his deep erudition and ability to set forth ideas clearly.  He made major contributions to the study of vy?kara?a. For these and through his students his memory will live on.  George Cardona  

On Jul 29, 2013, at 2:19 AM, Malhar Arvind Kulkarni wrote:

> Dear All,
> 
> My teacher, Prof.S.D.Joshi passed away this morning in Pune. Salutations
> to the Master!
> 
> Malhar Kulkarni.
> 
> 
>> Colleagues, The proceedings of the vy?kara?a section of the XVth World
>> Sanskrit Conference, entitled Vy?kara?a across the Ages, have been
>> published by D. K. Printworld, Delhi.  Information, including a table of
>> contents, can be viewed at the publisher's web site:
>> http://dkprintworld.com/product-detail.php?pid=1280857209. Regards, George
>> Cardona
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>> http://listinfo.indology.info
> 
> 
> 
> 






From mmdesh at umich.edu  Mon Jul 29 10:51:34 2013
From: mmdesh at umich.edu (Madhav Deshpande)
Date: Mon, 29 Jul 13 06:51:34 -0400
Subject: [INDOLOGY] publication
In-Reply-To: <87fa1a2d257a5c87fb13b1dd20c84245.squirrel@gpo.iitb.ac.in>
Message-ID: <CAB3-dzcSYQfhGff6v8pXae6vcbJ2Msp5kpKUEcSaqRzbQfJggw@mail.gmail.com>

Dear Malhar,

     Thanks for communicating this sad news.  I saw Professor S.D. Joshi
briefly during my visit to Pune in June.  He was very week and could barely
sit in the chair and talk.  He said to me: "I never thought you would see
me in this condition."  It was indeed difficult for me to see him in that
condition, and now to hear the news of his passing away.   He was a close
friend and a college classmate of my father, and I saw him since my early
childhood as a favorite uncle "Kaka".  During the two years he was my
teacher at the University of Pune, he had his class of three students come
to his home every day for an in depth session.  The class was made up of
me, Jayashree Gune and Pandit Athalekar.  His home became our second home.
There was unlimited generosity in his heart.  ??????? ???
??????????????????? - is what I recall from the A?ok?vad?na.  He had a
brilliant life and we must celebrate his contributions.

Madhav Deshpande


On Mon, Jul 29, 2013 at 2:19 AM, Malhar Arvind Kulkarni
<malhar at iitb.ac.in>wrote:

> Dear All,
>
> My teacher, Prof.S.D.Joshi passed away this morning in Pune. Salutations
> to the Master!
>
> Malhar Kulkarni.
>
>
> > Colleagues, The proceedings of the vy?kara?a section of the XVth World
> > Sanskrit Conference, entitled Vy?kara?a across the Ages, have been
> > published by D. K. Printworld, Delhi.  Information, including a table of
> > contents, can be viewed at the publisher's web site:
> > http://dkprintworld.com/product-detail.php?pid=1280857209. Regards,
> George
> > Cardona
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > INDOLOGY mailing list
> > INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> > http://listinfo.indology.info
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> http://listinfo.indology.info




-- 
Madhav M. Deshpande
Professor of Sanskrit and Linguistics
Department of Asian Languages and Cultures
202 South Thayer Street, Suite 6111
The University of Michigan
Ann Arbor, MI 48104-1608, USA


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From brendan.gillon at mcgill.ca  Mon Jul 29 12:04:59 2013
From: brendan.gillon at mcgill.ca (Brendan Gillon)
Date: Mon, 29 Jul 13 08:04:59 -0400
Subject: [INDOLOGY] publication
In-Reply-To: <87fa1a2d257a5c87fb13b1dd20c84245.squirrel@gpo.iitb.ac.in>
Message-ID: <51F65A6B.4060108@mcgill.ca>

I too am sadden to learn of the passing of Prof. S. D. Joshi. He was 
most kind to me during both of my extended stays in Pune, once as a 
graduate student in 1976-77 at CASS and once as an AIIS scholar 
affiliated with Deccan College in 1984--85. As Prof. Cardona pointed 
out, we are grateful to have his legacy, both in terms of his published 
work and in terms of his erudite students.

Brendan Gillon


On 13-07-29 02:19 AM, Malhar Arvind Kulkarni wrote:
> Dear All,
>
> My teacher, Prof.S.D.Joshi passed away this morning in Pune. Salutations
> to the Master!
>
> Malhar Kulkarni.
>
>
>> Colleagues, The proceedings of the vy?kara?a section of the XVth World
>> Sanskrit Conference, entitled Vy?kara?a across the Ages, have been
>> published by D. K. Printworld, Delhi.  Information, including a table of
>> contents, can be viewed at the publisher's web site:
>> http://dkprintworld.com/product-detail.php?pid=1280857209. Regards, George
>> Cardona
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>> http://listinfo.indology.info
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> http://listinfo.indology.info

-- 

Brendan S. Gillon                       email: brendan.gillon at mcgill.ca
Department of Linguistics
McGill University                       tel.:  001 514 398 4868
1085, Avenue Docteur-Penfield
Montreal, Quebec                        fax.:  001 514 398 7088
H3A 1A7  CANADA

webpage: http://webpages.mcgill.ca/staff/group3/bgillo/web/






From jemhouben at gmail.com  Mon Jul 29 12:30:16 2013
From: jemhouben at gmail.com (Jan E.M. Houben)
Date: Mon, 29 Jul 13 14:30:16 +0200
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Prof. Shivaram Dattatray Joshi, 15-8-1926 - 29-7-2013
Message-ID: <CAGCGLoCvwsoANT5t0Ns+vyaydrAhKBfnx4FX+PXnNgML2VBaeQ@mail.gmail.com>

With sadness we learn of the demise of Prof. Shivaram Dattatray Joshi, who
has been for many decades, in the words of his friend, student and close
collaborator Dr. J.A.F. Roodbergen, ?*il maestro di color che sanno* in the
field of Sanskrit grammar.? He will live on, to use Brendan Gillon's terms,
in "his published work" and in "his erudite students" (who have become the
teachers of P??ini-students of my own generation).

A bibliography of his publications up to 1989 is found in:
*P??inian Studies - Prof. S.D. Joshi Felicitation Volume*
(ed. by Madhav M. Deshpande, Saroja Bhate)
Michigan: Univ. of Michigan, Center for South and Southeast Asian Studies,
1991.
The same publication contains a Preface by Prof. Madhav Deshpande with
further details about the life and career of Prof. S.D. Joshi (accomplished
*vy?kara??c?rya* before reaching the age of 20, ?discovered? by Prof.
D.H.H. Ingalls in the early 1950s, Ph.D. at Harvard Univ. in 1960).

After his 65th birthday, from 1991-2011, fourteen volumes on the A???dhy?y?
of P??ini appeared with the Sahitya Akademi in New Delhi.
Authors: S.D. Joshi and J.A.F. Roodbergen.

Vol. fifteen in the series, prepared by J.A.F. Roodbergen alone (and
dedicated to S.D. Joshi), appeared in Pune at the Vaidika Samshodhana
Mandala in 2011.

Other supplements to the 1991 list of publications (articles by him, by him
together with P. Kiparsky and by him together with J.A.F. Roodbergen) can
be found in the section ?References? in *A Dictionary of P??inian
Grammatical Terminology* (by J.A.F. Roodbergen),  Pune: Bhandarkar Oriental
Research Institute, 2008.

See also: J.A.F. Roodbergen, ?Suppl[e]ment to Dictionary of P??inian
Grammatical Terminology? in *Annals of the Bhandarkar Oriental Research
Institute*, vol. 90 (for 2009): 127-151.

One of his last public speeches was probably his Keynote Address in January
2009 at the Third International Computational Linguistics Symposium in
Hyderabad (see ?Background of the A???dhy?y?? p. 1-5 in Sanskrit
Computational Linguistics : Third International Symposium, Hyderabad,
India, January 2009, Proceedings, Lecture Notes in Artificial Intelligence
5406, ed. by Amba Kulkarni and G?rard Huet, Heidelberg: Springer Verlag,
2009).


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From rrocher at sas.upenn.edu  Mon Jul 29 13:32:03 2013
From: rrocher at sas.upenn.edu (Rosane Rocher)
Date: Mon, 29 Jul 13 09:32:03 -0400
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Prof. Shivaram Dattatray Joshi, 15-8-1926 - 29-7-2013
In-Reply-To: <CAGCGLoCvwsoANT5t0Ns+vyaydrAhKBfnx4FX+PXnNgML2VBaeQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <51F66ED3.60700@sas.upenn.edu>

I had the privilege of reading privately the Maha-bha-s.ya with S. D. 
Joshi in December 1963, when I was working on my doctoral dissertation 
(on the 14th a-hnika).  In addition to the clarity of his comment, I 
enjoyed participating in a tradition of oral instruction of vya-karan.a 
of which he was a master.  He remained a dear friend and an example of 
positive scholarship.

Rosane Rocher

On 7/29/13 8:30 AM, Jan E.M. Houben wrote:
> With sadness we learn of the demise of Prof. Shivaram Dattatray Joshi, 
> who has been for many decades, in the words of his friend, student and 
> close collaborator Dr. J.A.F. Roodbergen, "/il maestro di color che 
> sanno/ in the field of Sanskrit grammar." He will live on, to use 
> Brendan Gillon's terms, in "his published work" and in "his erudite 
> students" (who have become the teachers of Pa-n.ini-students of my own 
> generation).
>
> A bibliography of his publications up to 1989 is found in:
> /Pa-n.inian Studies - Prof. S.D. Joshi Felicitation Volume/
> (ed. by Madhav M. Deshpande, Saroja Bhate)
> Michigan: Univ. of Michigan, Center for South and Southeast Asian 
> Studies, 1991.
> The same publication contains a Preface by Prof. Madhav Deshpande with 
> further details about the life and career of Prof. S.D. Joshi 
> (accomplished /vya-karan.a-ca-rya/ before reaching the age of 20, 
> "discovered" by Prof. D.H.H. Ingalls in the early 1950s, Ph.D. at 
> Harvard Univ. in 1960).
>
> After his 65th birthday, from 1991-2011, fourteen volumes on the 
> As.t.a-dhya-yi- of Pa-n.ini appeared with the Sahitya Akademi in New 
> Delhi.
> Authors: S.D. Joshi and J.A.F. Roodbergen.
>
> Vol. fifteen in the series, prepared by J.A.F. Roodbergen alone (and 
> dedicated to S.D. Joshi), appeared in Pune at the Vaidika Samshodhana 
> Mandala in 2011.
>
> Other supplements to the 1991 list of publications (articles by him, 
> by him together with P. Kiparsky and by him together with J.A.F. 
> Roodbergen) can be found in the section "References" in /A Dictionary 
> of Pa-n.inian Grammatical Terminology/ (by J.A.F. Roodbergen),  Pune: 
> Bhandarkar Oriental Research Institute, 2008.
>
> See also: J.A.F. Roodbergen, "Suppl[e]ment to Dictionary of Pa-n.inian 
> Grammatical Terminology" in /Annals of the Bhandarkar Oriental 
> Research Institute/, vol. 90 (for 2009): 127-151.
>
> One of his last public speeches was probably his Keynote Address in 
> January 2009 at the Third International Computational Linguistics 
> Symposium in Hyderabad (see "Background of the As.t.a-dhya-yi-" p. 1-5 
> in Sanskrit Computational Linguistics : Third International Symposium, 
> Hyderabad, India, January 2009, Proceedings, Lecture Notes in 
> Artificial Intelligence 5406, ed. by Amba Kulkarni and G?rard Huet, 
> Heidelberg: Springer Verlag, 2009).
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> http://listinfo.indology.info



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From ambapradeep at gmail.com  Mon Jul 29 15:16:24 2013
From: ambapradeep at gmail.com (Amba Kulkarni)
Date: Mon, 29 Jul 13 20:46:24 +0530
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Prof. Shivaram Dattatray Joshi, 15-8-1926 - 29-7-2013
In-Reply-To: <CAGCGLoCvwsoANT5t0Ns+vyaydrAhKBfnx4FX+PXnNgML2VBaeQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAFffahD38P6U3vWdqvTE+5NRVuFOpJKHBJ0yQZhFZBEdrMe3Pw@mail.gmail.com>

It is Prof. Joshi's works through which I was introduced to the
Mahabhashya, and also to the whole Paninian tradition, through the
printed material.

The first work which I read was the samarth-aahnika. He made all the
arguments on  asamartha compound and gamakatva
easy by providing a summary in a tabular form.

When we decided to hold the 3rd symposium on Sanskrit Computational
Linguistics at Hyderabad,  I could dare to invite him as a keynote
speaker.
I say 'I could dare' because at that time I did not know him
personally, never did I meet him before. I knew him only through his
works. And as he puts it, he was hesitating to accept the invitation,
but when he accepted the invitation, he was there for all the three
days, attended all the sessions, and also encouraged us to arrange
such events frequently.

His keynote speech is available at
http://sanskrit.uohyd.ernet.in/Symposium/papers/joshi.pdf, and the
video at http://sanskrit.uohyd.ernet.in/Symposium/video/15-01-09/inau_keynote.rm

May his soul rest in peace, and may his wife have a strength to accept the loss.

-- Amba Kulkarni


On 29 July 2013 18:00, Jan E.M. Houben <jemhouben at gmail.com> wrote:
> With sadness we learn of the demise of Prof. Shivaram Dattatray Joshi, who
> has been for many decades, in the words of his friend, student and close
> collaborator Dr. J.A.F. Roodbergen, ?il maestro di color che sanno in the
> field of Sanskrit grammar.? He will live on, to use Brendan Gillon's terms,
> in "his published work" and in "his erudite students" (who have become the
> teachers of P??ini-students of my own generation).
>
> A bibliography of his publications up to 1989 is found in:
> P??inian Studies - Prof. S.D. Joshi Felicitation Volume
> (ed. by Madhav M. Deshpande, Saroja Bhate)
> Michigan: Univ. of Michigan, Center for South and Southeast Asian Studies,
> 1991.
> The same publication contains a Preface by Prof. Madhav Deshpande with
> further details about the life and career of Prof. S.D. Joshi (accomplished
> vy?kara??c?rya before reaching the age of 20, ?discovered? by Prof. D.H.H.
> Ingalls in the early 1950s, Ph.D. at Harvard Univ. in 1960).
>
> After his 65th birthday, from 1991-2011, fourteen volumes on the A???dhy?y?
> of P??ini appeared with the Sahitya Akademi in New Delhi.
> Authors: S.D. Joshi and J.A.F. Roodbergen.
>
> Vol. fifteen in the series, prepared by J.A.F. Roodbergen alone (and
> dedicated to S.D. Joshi), appeared in Pune at the Vaidika Samshodhana
> Mandala in 2011.
>
> Other supplements to the 1991 list of publications (articles by him, by him
> together with P. Kiparsky and by him together with J.A.F. Roodbergen) can be
> found in the section ?References? in A Dictionary of P??inian Grammatical
> Terminology (by J.A.F. Roodbergen),  Pune: Bhandarkar Oriental Research
> Institute, 2008.
>
> See also: J.A.F. Roodbergen, ?Suppl[e]ment to Dictionary of P??inian
> Grammatical Terminology? in Annals of the Bhandarkar Oriental Research
> Institute, vol. 90 (for 2009): 127-151.
>
> One of his last public speeches was probably his Keynote Address in January
> 2009 at the Third International Computational Linguistics Symposium in
> Hyderabad (see ?Background of the A???dhy?y?? p. 1-5 in Sanskrit
> Computational Linguistics : Third International Symposium, Hyderabad, India,
> January 2009, Proceedings, Lecture Notes in Artificial Intelligence 5406,
> ed. by Amba Kulkarni and G?rard Huet, Heidelberg: Springer Verlag, 2009).
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> http://listinfo.indology.info



-- 
? ?? ?????: ?????? ????? ??????: ll
Let noble thoughts come to us from every side.
- Rig Veda, I-89-i.
Assoc Prof.  and Head
Department of Sanskrit Studies
University of Hyderabad
Prof. C.R. Rao Road
Hyderabad-500 046

(91) 040 23133802(off)

http://sanskrit.uohyd.ernet.in/scl
http://sanskrit.uohyd.ernet.in/faculty/amba





From wujastyk at gmail.com  Mon Jul 29 16:17:16 2013
From: wujastyk at gmail.com (Dominik Wujastyk)
Date: Mon, 29 Jul 13 18:17:16 +0200
Subject: [INDOLOGY] New book announcement
Message-ID: <CAKdt-Ceytsyy1HPSMK2M6iLn3g-sCTiVprX2==fMXv6NcGjbkQ@mail.gmail.com>

I am pleased to announce the publication of

   - Dominik Wujastyk, Anthony Cerulli and Karin Preisendanz
(editors), *Medical
   Texts and Manuscripts in Indian Cultural History* (New Delhi: Manohar
   Publishers and Distributors, 2013).  ISBN-13: 978-9350980194.

The book includes papers by Cristina Pecchia, Philipp Maas, Kenneth Zysk,
Tsudomu Yamashita, Manoj Sankaranarayana and P. Ram Manohar, in addition to
chapters by each of the editors.  There is a preface and a subject index.

The book is listed by
Amazon.com,<http://www.amazon.com/Medical-Manuscripts-Indian-Cultural-History/dp/9350980193/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1375114355&sr=8-1&keywords=wujastyk+medical+texts>but
is currently unavailable.  Presumably the entry will go live in the
near future.  For Europeans, the book is available at
Amazon.de<http://www.amazon.de/Medical-Manuscripts-Indian-Cultural-History/dp/9350980193/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1375114465&sr=8-1&keywords=wujastyk+medical+manuscripts>,
but seems rather highly priced; perhaps it will come down once distribution
gets underway.  The publisher's website is here<http://www.manoharbooks.com/>
.

The authors have each retained the copyright of their own contributions to
this volume.

[image: Inline images 1]n of


??
--
Dr Dominik Wujastyk
Department of South Asia, Tibetan and Buddhist Studies<http://stb.univie.ac.at>
,
University of Vienna,
Spitalgasse 2-4, Courtyard 2, Entrance 2.1
1090 Vienna, Austria
and
Adjunct Professor,
Division of Health and Humanities,
St. John's Research Institute, <http://www.sjri.res.in/> Bangalore, India.
Project <http://www.istb.univie.ac.at/caraka/> | home
page<http://www.academia.edu/DominikWujastyk>|
HSSA <http://hssa.sayahna.org> | PGP <http://wujastyk.net/pgp.html>


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From mailmealakendudas at rediffmail.com  Mon Jul 29 16:30:57 2013
From: mailmealakendudas at rediffmail.com (alakendu das)
Date: Mon, 29 Jul 13 16:30:57 +0000
Subject: [INDOLOGY]  What's VEDA ?
Message-ID: <20130729163057.24130.qmail@f4mail-235-129.rediffmail.com>



To All,

       A few days ago,I was keenly watching the ongoing discussion on the chronology of Vedic period. Howver, if I intend to go a bit deeper into the issue and concentrate on the  implication of the word-VEDA,I find it to be an interesting study.

                  While studying Upanishads,as a part of my Indological studies, I came across a Karika,(Elaboration) on the various meanings attached to the word Veda, apart from the one commonly known i.e.to know. 

             It goes something like this-



             Betti Bed Bid Gyane,Binte Bid Bicharane,

             Bidyate Bid Satyam Labhe, Bindati,Bindate



    Transalation,

                  Veda is that:-

             By which the ultimate truth is known

             Where the veracity of  ultimate Truth has been judged

             Where the ultimate thruth shows it's presence

             Where the ultimate truth resides.





               Thus it is evident that the word Veda carries many more connotations tha we usually know.Perhaps this leaves a subtle hint to the wide canvas  of ancient Hindu Philosophy, where a certain concept may be expressed in as many ways as one likes to. Perhaps this is what Sri Ramkrishna,the Spiritual Guru to Swami Vivekananda,refered to when he said- As many ideas, as many ways .

             

                   I will be grateful on further elaboration on this subject.



                                        ALAKENDU DAS

                                   Post-Graduate,Indology                        


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From jhakgirish at yahoo.com  Mon Jul 29 16:51:33 2013
From: jhakgirish at yahoo.com (girish jha)
Date: Mon, 29 Jul 13 09:51:33 -0700
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Prof. Shivaram Dattatray Joshi, 15-8-1926 - 29-7-2013
In-Reply-To: <51F66ED3.60700@sas.upenn.edu>
Message-ID: <1375116693.72643.YahooMailNeo@web121306.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>

Dear? colleagues,?abdavall?? vil?n??dya? ?ivar?me gate divam?.
?raddhay? ?paray? c?ryam pran?am?mi muhur muhuh?.//
GIRISH? K. JHA
DEPT OF? SANSKRIT,PATNA UNIV. INDIA


________________________________
From: Rosane Rocher <rrocher at sas.upenn.edu>
To: indology at list.indology.info 
Sent: Monday, July 29, 2013 7:02 PM
Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] Prof. Shivaram Dattatray Joshi, 15-8-1926 - 29-7-2013



I had the privilege of reading privately the Mah?bh??ya with S. D. Joshi in December 1963, when I was working on my doctoral dissertation (on the 14th ?hnika).? In addition to the clarity of his comment, I enjoyed participating in a tradition of oral instruction of vy?kara?a of which he was a master.? He remained a dear friend and an example of positive scholarship. 

Rosane Rocher? ? ? 


On 7/29/13 8:30 AM, Jan E.M. Houben wrote:

With sadness we learn of the demise of Prof. Shivaram Dattatray Joshi, who has been for many decades, in the words of his friend, student and close collaborator Dr. J.A.F. Roodbergen, ?il maestro di color che sanno in the field of Sanskrit grammar.? He will live on, to use Brendan Gillon's terms, in "his published work" and in "his erudite students" (who have become the teachers of?P??ini-students of my own generation). ? 
>
>
>A bibliography of his publications up to 1989 is found in:
>P??inian Studies - Prof. S.D. Joshi Felicitation Volume
>(ed. by Madhav M. Deshpande, Saroja Bhate)
>Michigan: Univ. of Michigan, Center for South and Southeast Asian Studies, 1991.
>The same publication contains a Preface by Prof. Madhav Deshpande with further details about the life and career of Prof. S.D. Joshi (accomplished vy?kara??c?rya before reaching the age of 20, ?discovered? by Prof. D.H.H. Ingalls in the early 1950s, Ph.D. at Harvard Univ. in 1960).
>
>
>After his 65th birthday, from 1991-2011, fourteen volumes on the A???dhy?y? of P??ini appeared with the Sahitya Akademi in New Delhi.
>Authors: S.D. Joshi and J.A.F. Roodbergen.
>
>Vol. fifteen in the series, prepared by J.A.F. Roodbergen alone (and dedicated to S.D. Joshi), appeared in Pune at the Vaidika Samshodhana Mandala in 2011.
>
>Other supplements to the 1991 list of publications (articles by him, by him together with P. Kiparsky and by him together with J.A.F. Roodbergen) can be found in the section ?References? in A Dictionary of P??inian Grammatical Terminology (by J.A.F. Roodbergen), ?Pune: Bhandarkar Oriental Research Institute, 2008.
>
>See also: J.A.F. Roodbergen, ?Suppl[e]ment to Dictionary of P??inian Grammatical Terminology? in Annals of the Bhandarkar Oriental Research Institute, vol. 90 (for 2009): 127-151.
>
>One of his last public speeches was probably his Keynote Address in January 2009 at the Third International Computational Linguistics Symposium in Hyderabad (see ?Background of the A???dhy?y?? p. 1-5 in Sanskrit Computational Linguistics : Third International Symposium, Hyderabad, India, January 2009, Proceedings, Lecture Notes in Artificial Intelligence 5406, ed. by Amba Kulkarni and G?rard Huet, Heidelberg: Springer Verlag, 2009).
>?
>
> 
>
>_______________________________________________
INDOLOGY mailing list INDOLOGY at list.indology.info http://listinfo.indology.info/

_______________________________________________
INDOLOGY mailing list
INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
http://listinfo.indology.info/


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From jean-luc.chevillard at univ-paris-diderot.fr  Mon Jul 29 17:23:32 2013
From: jean-luc.chevillard at univ-paris-diderot.fr (Jean-Luc Chevillard)
Date: Mon, 29 Jul 13 22:53:32 +0530
Subject: [INDOLOGY] scribal self-recitation while copying
In-Reply-To: <CAHRgzy1k-7AsRei-q2w4UwsLDmmxKx_Q1FbVxH=YcfaR2-=raQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <51F6A514.8010006@univ-paris-diderot.fr>

The PDF file attached to this message
contains the scanned image of one chapter
("A stratagem")
extracted from the (very much) ABRIDGED translation
of the biography of
Mahavidwan Sri Meenakshisundaram Pillai (1815-1876)
who was the teacher of U.V. Swaminatha Aiyar,
one of the fathers of Tamil philology.

This chapter tells a story
in which a stratagem is used
for borrowing a MS from an unfriendly priest
(in order to copy it)
and also the method used for copying the MS.
See page 29:

<QUOTE>

Sri Pillai gave each friend and pupil of his a set of ten palm-leaves
to be copied, and transcribed the rest himself. On the seventh day
the leaves were assembled and after comparison of the copy with the 
original, the latter was returned to Sundaram Pillai
who called for it. Sundaram Pillai had the book and the sovereign
given to the priest by the friend who had acted as his attendant.

</QUOTE>

I have not checked the original Tamil text.
It might contain more details.


-- Jean-Luc Chevillard (Pondicherry)



On 24/07/2013 17:58, Tyler Williams wrote:
> Dear all,
>
> There is, of course, quite a bit of variation in scribal practices over
> time and region; at various places and times there is documented
> evidence of, or oblique references, to scribes working singly,
> collectively, with reciters, and without reciters, and with the
> establishment of Islamicate courts in northern India, ateliers on the
> model of the kar-khana.  There were significant differences in practice
> between, say, monks working in a temple or monastic institution,
> itinerant Kashmiri scribes that travelled singly or in groups around
> northern India, copying texts for a fee, and court 'scribes' (who were
> actually much more), who have received a good bit of attention from
> O'Hanlon and Minkowski. The question of mass-produced manuscripts is an
> interesting one that has received a little bit of attention in the Jain
> context; some helpful sources on these and other questions include:
>
> Cort, John E. 1995. ?The Jain Knowledge Warehouses: Traditional
> Libraries in India.? /Journal of the American Oriental Society/ 115 (1): 10.
>
> Data, Kali Kumar. 1971. ?The Ritual of Manuscripts.? /Our Heritage:
> Bulletin of the Department of Post-Graduate Training and Research,
> Sanskrit College, Calcutta /19 (1).
>
> Losty, Jeremiah P. 1982. /The art of the book in India/. London: British
> Library.
>
> Data's article sites a number of texts that give normative prescriptions
> for how a text used for ritual performance was to be copied.  Losty
> discusses a period and genre of mass-produced stereotyped Jain manuscripts.
>
> Most references are, unfortunately, terse and scattered.  For South
> Asia, more work has been done on scribal practices among the Persianate
> elites; for Europe the body of research is quite significant.
>
> Best,
>
> Tyler Williams
>
> Columbia University
>
>
>
> On Wed, Jul 24, 2013 at 7:20 AM, Ashok Aklujkar
> <ashok.aklujkar at gmail.com <mailto:ashok.aklujkar at gmail.com>> wrote:
>
>
>     On 2013-07-23, at 7:56 PM, Allen Thrasher wrote:
>
>     ...  I wonder if there is any evidence that scribal workshops would
>     ever produce many copies of a work at one time, with a single reader
>     and a number of scribes. ... Presumably there would be a market for
>     standard classics (e.g. the Gita) that in some circumstances would
>     justify producing them in advance of specific individual orders.
>       ... But everything I recall reading seems to assume that copies
>     were produced singly.  It need not even be a question of one person
>     recruiting scribes so to speak off the street; it could also be a
>     workshop of a scribe and his sons (younger brothers, nephews, etc.),
>     a family operation.<
>
>
>     As I recall, king Kurmaarapaala of northern Gujarat is said to have
>     arranged one thousand scribes to produce one thousand copies of
>     Hema-candra's grammar, ;Sabdaanu;saasana, soon after it was
>     completed. There is documentary evidence for this, but I cannot put
>     my hands on it at present. Perhaps Georg Buehler's Life of
>     Hema-candra specifies the source.
>
>     In the late 1920s, when travelling teams went to collect manuscripts
>     in the Madras Presidency, those collected manuscripts which were to
>     be returned to their owners were copied (i.e., transcribed into
>     Nagari on paper) at Madras with one pandit reading and another
>     pandit writing the heard text. Then they usually reversed roles and
>     the faithfulness of the transcription was ascertained (or a more
>     experienced pandit was requested to check the accuracy of the
>     transcription) before the manuscript was returned. You still see
>     evidence of this in several transcripts in the GOML and at Adyar
>     Library and Research Centre with the names of pandits specified and
>     the date of completion of the process written at the end.Confirming
>     signatures also appear.
>
>     It is quite likely that at places of pilgrimage the Kaayastha
>     families kept a few extra copies of popular texts on hand to sell to
>     pilgrims.
>
>     a.a.
>
>     _______________________________________________
>     INDOLOGY mailing list
>     INDOLOGY at list.indology.info <mailto:INDOLOGY at list.indology.info>
>     http://listinfo.indology.info
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> http://listinfo.indology.info
>

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From shrivara at gmail.com  Mon Jul 29 18:31:23 2013
From: shrivara at gmail.com (Shrinivasa Varakhedi)
Date: Tue, 30 Jul 13 00:01:23 +0530
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Fwd:  Prof. Shivaram Dattatray Joshi,	15-8-1926 - 29-7-2013
In-Reply-To: <CAFffahANW73Ch0u0wVDSYgiCc3ZtcLpruEvgBcvCx69fckZ0Bw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CABcym2v13wr8dMw4KOaq=MSWh2ivBVfQguoEZjoes8JpRCo48g@mail.gmail.com>

Hear is the Sanskrit version of Keynote address delivered by Prof. Joshi in
Hyd. This document is shared by Prof. ambaji.

Shrivara

> It's really a sad news. Prof.joshi was a great scholar of modern times.
His contributions include not only the works on ashtafhyayi n other works
of paninian system, but also many prominent scholars like prof. jha n prof.
bhate and so on and the institutions like cass, puna.
>
> I too was fortunate to get his blessings for the first n last time during
his visit to Hyd central university on the invitation of Prof. Amba
Kulkarni. His key note address in English was translated by me in Sanskrit.
Professor was so kind to appreciate my translation. It was a great moment
in my life.
>
> It would be appreciated if some one shares that translation printed in
the volume published by Sanskrit Academy during the conference.
>
> With warm regards,
>
> Shrinivasa Varakhedi Ph.D
> Professor and Dean
> Karnataka Sanskrit University, chamaraj pet,
> Bangalore 18.
>
> 09483501353 mob
> 08026794258 res
> shrivara at gmail.com
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Jul 29, 2013, at 20:46, Amba Kulkarni <ambapradeep at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> It is Prof. Joshi's works through which I was introduced to the
>> Mahabhashya, and also to the whole Paninian tradition, through the
>> printed material.
>>
>> The first work which I read was the samarth-aahnika. He made all the
>> arguments on  asamartha compound and gamakatva
>> easy by providing a summary in a tabular form.
>>
>> When we decided to hold the 3rd symposium on Sanskrit Computational
>> Linguistics at Hyderabad,  I could dare to invite him as a keynote
>> speaker.
>> I say 'I could dare' because at that time I did not know him
>> personally, never did I meet him before. I knew him only through his
>> works. And as he puts it, he was hesitating to accept the invitation,
>> but when he accepted the invitation, he was there for all the three
>> days, attended all the sessions, and also encouraged us to arrange
>> such events frequently.
>>
>> His keynote speech is available at
>> http://sanskrit.uohyd.ernet.in/Symposium/papers/joshi.pdf, and the
>> video at
http://sanskrit.uohyd.ernet.in/Symposium/video/15-01-09/inau_keynote.rm
>>
>> May his soul rest in peace, and may his wife have a strength to accept
the loss.
>>
>> -- Amba Kulkarni
>>
>>
>> On 29 July 2013 18:00, Jan E.M. Houben <jemhouben at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> With sadness we learn of the demise of Prof. Shivaram Dattatray Joshi,
who
>>> has been for many decades, in the words of his friend, student and close
>>> collaborator Dr. J.A.F. Roodbergen, ?il maestro di color che sanno in
the
>>> field of Sanskrit grammar.? He will live on, to use Brendan Gillon's
terms,
>>> in "his published work" and in "his erudite students" (who have become
the
>>> teachers of P??ini-students of my own generation).
>>>
>>> A bibliography of his publications up to 1989 is found in:
>>> P??inian Studies - Prof. S.D. Joshi Felicitation Volume
>>> (ed. by Madhav M. Deshpande, Saroja Bhate)
>>> Michigan: Univ. of Michigan, Center for South and Southeast Asian
Studies,
>>> 1991.
>>> The same publication contains a Preface by Prof. Madhav Deshpande with
>>> further details about the life and career of Prof. S.D. Joshi
(accomplished
>>> vy?kara??c?rya before reaching the age of 20, ?discovered? by Prof.
D.H.H.
>>> Ingalls in the early 1950s, Ph.D. at Harvard Univ. in 1960).
>>>
>>> After his 65th birthday, from 1991-2011, fourteen volumes on the
A???dhy?y?
>>> of P??ini appeared with the Sahitya Akademi in New Delhi.
>>> Authors: S.D. Joshi and J.A.F. Roodbergen.
>>>
>>> Vol. fifteen in the series, prepared by J.A.F. Roodbergen alone (and
>>> dedicated to S.D. Joshi), appeared in


-- 
warm regards,
shri.varakhedi
-----------------------------------------
Prof. Shrinivasa Varakhedi, Ph.D
(Recipient of Presidents Award)
Dean & Director, Directorate of Karnataka State Sanskrit Education
Karnataka Samskrita University,
Pampa Mahakavi Road, Chamaraj Pet,
Bengaluru - 560018

Mobile : +91-94853-01353
Ph Off :  +91-80-26705596
Land Res: +91-80-26794258

Director (On Leave)
Sanskrit Academy,
Osmania University
Hyderabad 07


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From mail at change.org  Tue Jul 30 08:20:50 2013
From: mail at change.org (Dipak Bhattacharya)
Date: Tue, 30 Jul 13 08:20:50 +0000
Subject: =?utf-8?Q?[INDOLOGY]_I_just_signed_=E2=80=9C=E2=80=9CFair_and_Handsome=E2=80=9D_and_Shah_Rukh_Khan:_Take_Down_Discriminatory_Ad._Lead_the_Change.__#disbcampaign_=E2=80=9D?=
Message-ID: <51f77762c517f_216e1366888126214@production-change-main-resque-00.mail>

Hi,

I've just signed the following petition "?Fair and Handsome? and Shah Rukh Khan: Take Down Discriminatory Ad. Lead the Change.  #disbcampaign " and wanted to see if you could help by adding your name.

Our goal is to reach 7,500 signatures and we need more support. You can read more and sign the petition here:

https://www.change.org/en-IN/petitions/fair-and-handsome-and-shah-rukh-khan-take-down-discriminatory-ad-lead-the-change-disbcampaign?share_id=EZCCDbqhfP&utm_source=share_petition&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=petition_invitation

Thanks!
Dipak


You&#x27;re receiving this message because Dipak Bhattacharya sent you an email through Change.org&#x27;s petition sharing tool. Change.org has not stored your email address. If you believe you have received this message in error, respond directly to Dipak Bhattacharya at dbhattacharya200498 at yahoo.com.




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From mkapstei at uchicago.edu  Tue Jul 30 10:08:22 2013
From: mkapstei at uchicago.edu (Matthew Kapstein)
Date: Tue, 30 Jul 13 10:08:22 +0000
Subject: [INDOLOGY] New book announcement
In-Reply-To: <CAKdt-Ceytsyy1HPSMK2M6iLn3g-sCTiVprX2==fMXv6NcGjbkQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <82C3E42590D939418C74DD76B97DDED07C19F9@xm-mbx-04-prod.ad.uchicago.edu>

Dear Dominik,

Sorry to say that I could not locate this in the publisher's website!

all best,
Matthew

Matthew Kapstein
Directeur d'?tudes,
Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes

Numata Visiting Professor of Buddhist Studies,
The University of Chicago
________________________________


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From tylerwwilliams at gmail.com  Tue Jul 30 12:05:37 2013
From: tylerwwilliams at gmail.com (Tyler Williams)
Date: Tue, 30 Jul 13 14:05:37 +0200
Subject: [INDOLOGY] scribal self-recitation while copying
In-Reply-To: <CAKdt-Ccx0yka_EnhhKJCbEWP33z3vMibKmbWtkPtD1CXGq6dmg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAHRgzy3dVn_5tUsbbtsH4X+Tr6uYOLh50xE=KM+NVFBEB9QQHQ@mail.gmail.com>

Ah-- I did not, of course, mean to suggest that all those references were
contained in those three articles -- apologies if that was confusing.
 Dutta, if I remember correctly, mines information from the
Hayas?r??-pa?car?tra, Vi??udharmottara, Caturvargacint?mani,
D?nakha??a, Dev?pur??a, K?tyakalpataru, and Nandipur??a, and discusses the
pair of reciter and copyist.

Some more sources that describe the other phemomena, with page numbers, etc:

Awliya, Nizam ad-din. 1992. *Morals for the Heart: Conversations of Shaykh
Nizam ad-din Awliya recorded by Amir Hasan Sijzi*. Edited by Bruce (trans)
Lawrence, *Classics of Western spirituality ; #4*. New York: Paulist Press.
p 26 (correction of scribal errors)

Bahura, Gopalnarayan. 1984. *Catalogue of manuscripts in the Maharaja Sawai
Man Singh II Museum : Pothikhana collection (a) Dharmasastra*, *Maharaja
Sawai Man Singh II memorial series no. 7*. Jaipur: The Museum.
(Introduction) (on Rajput emulation of Mughal ateliers)

Goswamy, B.N. 2006. *The Word is Sacred, Sacred is the Word: The Indian
Manuscript Tradition*. New Delhi: Niyogi Books. pp 54-6 (on itinerant
scribes)

Habib, Irfan. 2006. ?Writing and the Use of Books in the Age of Persian
Manuscripts.? *Tattvabodh* 1: 22. pp 18-22 (on personal copying of books,
or copying of personal books)

Losty, Jeremiah P. 1982. *The art of the book in India*. London: British
Library. pp 44-5 (on stereotyped Jain mss)

Further references will be found in each of the above, though they are
admittedly few.  Am away from home and this is what I have on hand at the
moment; will send more once I'm back.

And as I mentioned in the earlier mail, the references are scattered,
fragmentary, and spread across multiple periods and traditions.  So I would
only conservatively suggest that these are indicative of a particular
practice at a particular place and time, rather than making any
generalizations from them.

Best,

Tyler


On Sun, Jul 28, 2013 at 2:54 AM, Dominik Wujastyk <wujastyk at gmail.com>wrote:

> I haven't read Data's 1971 article, but in the other citations I don't
> recall detailed documentation for the interesting 4-5 modes of copying and
> 3 types of copyists that you mention.  Could you point to the documented
> evidence for each, please?
>
> Many thanks,
> Dominik Wujastyk
>
>
> On 24 July 2013 14:28, Tyler Williams <tylerwwilliams at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Dear all,
>>
>> There is, of course, quite a bit of variation in scribal practices over
>> time and region; at various places and times there is documented evidence
>> of, or oblique references, to scribes working singly, collectively, with
>> reciters, and without reciters, and with the establishment of Islamicate
>> courts in northern India, ateliers on the model of the kar-khana.  There
>> were significant differences in practice between, say, monks working in a
>> temple or monastic institution, itinerant Kashmiri scribes that travelled
>> singly or in groups around northern India, copying texts for a fee, and
>> court 'scribes' (who were actually much more), who have received a good bit
>> of attention from O'Hanlon and Minkowski. The question of mass-produced
>> manuscripts is an interesting one that has received a little bit of
>> attention in the Jain context; some helpful sources on these and other
>> questions include:
>>
>> Cort, John E. 1995. ?The Jain Knowledge Warehouses: Traditional Libraries
>> in India.? *Journal of the American Oriental Society* 115 (1): 10.
>>
>> Data, Kali Kumar. 1971. ?The Ritual of Manuscripts.? *Our Heritage:
>> Bulletin of the Department of Post-Graduate Training and Research, Sanskrit
>> College, Calcutta *19 (1).
>>
>> Losty, Jeremiah P. 1982. *The art of the book in India*. London: British
>> Library.
>>
>> Data's article sites a number of texts that give normative prescriptions
>> for how a text used for ritual performance was to be copied.  Losty
>> discusses a period and genre of mass-produced stereotyped Jain manuscripts.
>>
>> Most references are, unfortunately, terse and scattered.  For South Asia,
>> more work has been done on scribal practices among the Persianate elites;
>> for Europe the body of research is quite significant.
>>
>> Best,
>>
>> Tyler Williams
>>
>> Columbia University
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Jul 24, 2013 at 7:20 AM, Ashok Aklujkar <ashok.aklujkar at gmail.com
>> > wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> On 2013-07-23, at 7:56 PM, Allen Thrasher wrote:
>>>
>>> ...  I wonder if there is any evidence that scribal workshops would ever
>>> produce many copies of a work at one time, with a single reader and a
>>> number of scribes. ... Presumably there would be a market for standard
>>> classics (e.g. the Gita) that in some circumstances would justify producing
>>> them in advance of specific individual orders.  ... But everything I recall
>>> reading seems to assume that copies were produced singly.  It need not even
>>> be a question of one person recruiting scribes so to speak off the street;
>>> it could also be a workshop of a scribe and his sons (younger brothers,
>>> nephews, etc.), a family operation.<
>>>
>>>
>>> As I recall, king Kurmaarapaala of northern Gujarat is said to have
>>> arranged one thousand scribes to produce one thousand copies of
>>> Hema-candra's grammar, ;Sabdaanu;saasana, soon after it was completed.
>>> There is documentary evidence for this, but I cannot put my hands on it at
>>> present. Perhaps Georg Buehler's Life of Hema-candra specifies the source.
>>>
>>> In the late 1920s, when travelling teams went to collect manuscripts in
>>> the Madras Presidency, those collected manuscripts which were to be
>>> returned to their owners were copied (i.e., transcribed into Nagari on
>>> paper) at Madras with one pandit reading and another pandit writing the
>>> heard text. Then they usually reversed roles and the faithfulness of the
>>> transcription was ascertained (or a more experienced pandit was requested
>>> to check the accuracy of the transcription) before the manuscript was
>>> returned. You still see evidence of this in several transcripts in the GOML
>>> and at Adyar Library and Research Centre with the names of pandits
>>> specified and the date of completion of the process written at the
>>> end.Confirming signatures also appear.
>>>
>>> It is quite likely that at places of pilgrimage the Kaayastha families
>>> kept a few extra copies of popular texts on hand to sell to pilgrims.
>>>
>>> a.a.
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>>
>>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>>> http://listinfo.indology.info
>>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>> http://listinfo.indology.info
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> http://listinfo.indology.info
>


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From mark.allon at sydney.edu.au  Tue Jul 30 23:42:44 2013
From: mark.allon at sydney.edu.au (Mark Allon)
Date: Tue, 30 Jul 13 23:42:44 +0000
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Illustrated manuscripts of the Bhagavadgita
Message-ID: <1A46C9B65B1156439124252D1E715E5162A50A85@EX-MBX-PRO-06.mcs.usyd.edu.au>

Dear colleagues,

I would appreciate it if someone could provide links to electronic versions of illustrated manuscripts of the Bhagavadg?t? that can be read by students who are studying the text and references to articles/books discussing the art of manuscript illustrations of the BhG.

Thanks in advance.

Mark Allon
University of Sydney




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From wujastyk at gmail.com  Wed Jul 31 10:18:53 2013
From: wujastyk at gmail.com (Dominik Wujastyk)
Date: Wed, 31 Jul 13 12:18:53 +0200
Subject: [INDOLOGY] scribal self-recitation while copying
In-Reply-To: <CAHRgzy3dVn_5tUsbbtsH4X+Tr6uYOLh50xE=KM+NVFBEB9QQHQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAKdt-CcjYpOakQU2=kghvRBQWSKLf0_xBnytWPDgBCU3WpXHqw@mail.gmail.com>

Thanks!
?Dominik?


On 30 July 2013 14:05, Tyler Williams <tylerwwilliams at gmail.com> wrote:

> Ah-- I did not, of course, mean to suggest that all those references were
> contained in those three articles -- apologies if that was confusing.
>  Dutta, if I remember correctly, mines information from the
> Hayas?r??-pa?car?tra, Vi??udharmottara, Caturvargacint?mani,
> D?nakha??a, Dev?pur??a, K?tyakalpataru, and Nandipur??a, and discusses the
> pair of reciter and copyist.
>
> Some more sources that describe the other phemomena, with page numbers,
> etc:
>
> Awliya, Nizam ad-din. 1992. *Morals for the Heart: Conversations of
> Shaykh Nizam ad-din Awliya recorded by Amir Hasan Sijzi*. Edited by Bruce
> (trans) Lawrence, *Classics of Western spirituality ; #4*. New York:
> Paulist Press. p 26 (correction of scribal errors)
>
> Bahura, Gopalnarayan. 1984. *Catalogue of manuscripts in the Maharaja
> Sawai Man Singh II Museum : Pothikhana collection (a) Dharmasastra*, *Maharaja
> Sawai Man Singh II memorial series no. 7*. Jaipur: The Museum.
> (Introduction) (on Rajput emulation of Mughal ateliers)
>
> Goswamy, B.N. 2006. *The Word is Sacred, Sacred is the Word: The Indian
> Manuscript Tradition*. New Delhi: Niyogi Books. pp 54-6 (on itinerant
> scribes)
>
> Habib, Irfan. 2006. ?Writing and the Use of Books in the Age of Persian
> Manuscripts.? *Tattvabodh* 1: 22. pp 18-22 (on personal copying of books,
> or copying of personal books)
>
> Losty, Jeremiah P. 1982. *The art of the book in India*. London: British
> Library. pp 44-5 (on stereotyped Jain mss)
>
> Further references will be found in each of the above, though they are
> admittedly few.  Am away from home and this is what I have on hand at the
> moment; will send more once I'm back.
>
> And as I mentioned in the earlier mail, the references are scattered,
> fragmentary, and spread across multiple periods and traditions.  So I would
> only conservatively suggest that these are indicative of a particular
> practice at a particular place and time, rather than making any
> generalizations from them.
>
> Best,
>
> Tyler
>
>
> On Sun, Jul 28, 2013 at 2:54 AM, Dominik Wujastyk <wujastyk at gmail.com>wrote:
>
>> I haven't read Data's 1971 article, but in the other citations I don't
>> recall detailed documentation for the interesting 4-5 modes of copying and
>> 3 types of copyists that you mention.  Could you point to the documented
>> evidence for each, please?
>>
>> Many thanks,
>> Dominik Wujastyk
>>
>>
>> On 24 July 2013 14:28, Tyler Williams <tylerwwilliams at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Dear all,
>>>
>>> There is, of course, quite a bit of variation in scribal practices over
>>> time and region; at various places and times there is documented evidence
>>> of, or oblique references, to scribes working singly, collectively, with
>>> reciters, and without reciters, and with the establishment of Islamicate
>>> courts in northern India, ateliers on the model of the kar-khana.  There
>>> were significant differences in practice between, say, monks working in a
>>> temple or monastic institution, itinerant Kashmiri scribes that travelled
>>> singly or in groups around northern India, copying texts for a fee, and
>>> court 'scribes' (who were actually much more), who have received a good bit
>>> of attention from O'Hanlon and Minkowski. The question of mass-produced
>>> manuscripts is an interesting one that has received a little bit of
>>> attention in the Jain context; some helpful sources on these and other
>>> questions include:
>>>
>>> Cort, John E. 1995. ?The Jain Knowledge Warehouses: Traditional
>>> Libraries in India.? *Journal of the American Oriental Society* 115
>>> (1): 10.
>>>
>>> Data, Kali Kumar. 1971. ?The Ritual of Manuscripts.? *Our Heritage:
>>> Bulletin of the Department of Post-Graduate Training and Research, Sanskrit
>>> College, Calcutta *19 (1).
>>>
>>> Losty, Jeremiah P. 1982. *The art of the book in India*. London:
>>> British Library.
>>>
>>> Data's article sites a number of texts that give normative prescriptions
>>> for how a text used for ritual performance was to be copied.  Losty
>>> discusses a period and genre of mass-produced stereotyped Jain manuscripts.
>>>
>>> Most references are, unfortunately, terse and scattered.  For South
>>> Asia, more work has been done on scribal practices among the Persianate
>>> elites; for Europe the body of research is quite significant.
>>>
>>> Best,
>>>
>>> Tyler Williams
>>>
>>> Columbia University
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wed, Jul 24, 2013 at 7:20 AM, Ashok Aklujkar <
>>> ashok.aklujkar at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 2013-07-23, at 7:56 PM, Allen Thrasher wrote:
>>>>
>>>> ...  I wonder if there is any evidence that scribal workshops would
>>>> ever produce many copies of a work at one time, with a single reader and a
>>>> number of scribes. ... Presumably there would be a market for standard
>>>> classics (e.g. the Gita) that in some circumstances would justify producing
>>>> them in advance of specific individual orders.  ... But everything I recall
>>>> reading seems to assume that copies were produced singly.  It need not even
>>>> be a question of one person recruiting scribes so to speak off the street;
>>>> it could also be a workshop of a scribe and his sons (younger brothers,
>>>> nephews, etc.), a family operation.<
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> As I recall, king Kurmaarapaala of northern Gujarat is said to have
>>>> arranged one thousand scribes to produce one thousand copies of
>>>> Hema-candra's grammar, ;Sabdaanu;saasana, soon after it was completed.
>>>> There is documentary evidence for this, but I cannot put my hands on it at
>>>> present. Perhaps Georg Buehler's Life of Hema-candra specifies the source.
>>>>
>>>> In the late 1920s, when travelling teams went to collect manuscripts in
>>>> the Madras Presidency, those collected manuscripts which were to be
>>>> returned to their owners were copied (i.e., transcribed into Nagari on
>>>> paper) at Madras with one pandit reading and another pandit writing the
>>>> heard text. Then they usually reversed roles and the faithfulness of the
>>>> transcription was ascertained (or a more experienced pandit was requested
>>>> to check the accuracy of the transcription) before the manuscript was
>>>> returned. You still see evidence of this in several transcripts in the GOML
>>>> and at Adyar Library and Research Centre with the names of pandits
>>>> specified and the date of completion of the process written at the
>>>> end.Confirming signatures also appear.
>>>>
>>>> It is quite likely that at places of pilgrimage the Kaayastha families
>>>> kept a few extra copies of popular texts on hand to sell to pilgrims.
>>>>
>>>> a.a.
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>
>>>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>>>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>>>> http://listinfo.indology.info
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>>> http://listinfo.indology.info
>>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
>> http://listinfo.indology.info
>>
>
>


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From J.L.Brockington at ed.ac.uk  Wed Jul 31 10:52:13 2013
From: J.L.Brockington at ed.ac.uk (BROCKINGTON John)
Date: Wed, 31 Jul 13 11:52:13 +0100
Subject: =?utf-8?Q?[INDOLOGY]_=C4=80dipur=C4=81=E1=B9=87a_/_N=C4=81rada=C5=9Baunakasa=E1=B9=83v=C4=81da?=
Message-ID: <D44F5137C1E09F4BB7F1FB59005ADB6A254489B2F9@EXSEEDMD.is.ed.ac.uk>

Dear Collagues,

I am having problems tracing a copy of a text entitled either ?dipur??a or N?rada?aunakasa?v?da in any library catalogue available to me.  The work is mentioned in NCC vol. 2 p. 83, also by Raghavan in his Greater Ramayana 1973 p.65, as published by Venkateswara Press in 1907 (1908 in Raghavan 1973).  Does anyone have access to a copy?  I am interested specifically in 16.29-69 of its text and a scan of that portion would be ideal.  Many thanks to anyone who can help in any way.

Yours

John Brockington


Professor J. L. Brockington
Fellow, Oxford Centre for Hindu Studies
Emeritus Professor of Sanskrit, University of Edinburgh
Vice President, International Association of Sanskrit Studies
-- 
The University of Edinburgh is a charitable body, registered in
Scotland, with registration number SC005336.





From J.L.Brockington at ed.ac.uk  Wed Jul 31 11:49:16 2013
From: J.L.Brockington at ed.ac.uk (BROCKINGTON John)
Date: Wed, 31 Jul 13 12:49:16 +0100
Subject: =?utf-8?Q?[INDOLOGY]_FW:_=C4=80dipur=C4=81=E1=B9=87a_/_N=C4=81rada=C5=9Baunakasa=E1=B9=83v=C4=81da?=
In-Reply-To: <D44F5137C1E09F4BB7F1FB59005ADB6A254489B2F9@EXSEEDMD.is.ed.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <D44F5137C1E09F4BB7F1FB59005ADB6A254489B2FE@EXSEEDMD.is.ed.ac.uk>

Dear Colleagues,

I am pleased to state that, thanks to the kindness and promptness of Petteri Koskikallio, I now have scans of the passage from two more recent editions of the text, which answer my purpose perfectly.

Yours

John Brockington


Professor J. L. Brockington
Fellow, Oxford Centre for Hindu Studies
Emeritus Professor of Sanskrit, University of Edinburgh
Vice President, International Association of Sanskrit Studies
________________________________________
From: BROCKINGTON John
Sent: 31 July 2013 11:52
To: indology at list.indology.info
Subject: ?dipur??a / N?rada?aunakasa?v?da

Dear Colleagues,

I am having problems tracing a copy of a text entitled either ?dipur??a or N?rada?aunakasa?v?da in any library catalogue available to me.  The work is mentioned in NCC vol. 2 p. 83, also by Raghavan in his Greater Ramayana 1973 p.65, as published by Venkateswara Press in 1907 (1908 in Raghavan 1973).  Does anyone have access to a copy?  I am interested specifically in 16.29-69 of its text and a scan of that portion would be ideal.  Many thanks to anyone who can help in any way.

Yours

John Brockington


Professor J. L. Brockington
Fellow, Oxford Centre for Hindu Studies
Emeritus Professor of Sanskrit, University of Edinburgh
Vice President, International Association of Sanskrit Studies

-- 
The University of Edinburgh is a charitable body, registered in
Scotland, with registration number SC005336.





From glhart at berkeley.edu  Wed Jul 31 21:04:03 2013
From: glhart at berkeley.edu (George Hart)
Date: Wed, 31 Jul 13 14:04:03 -0700
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Sacrificial Tortoise?
Message-ID: <03861D86-0C2B-4013-857B-26D1A1970353@berkeley.edu>

Akan????u 361 (probably dating to the first 2 centuries CE) mentions a sacrifice in which a tortoise is placed in a fiery sacrificial pit (tittiyam) for the gods "whose flowers do not fade" to eat.  This is also referred to 5 or 6 centuries later in the C?vakacint?ma?i (2878).  I have never heard of such a ritual and am wondering whether it is mentioned in Sanskrit.  The poem uses the image quite beautifully: a man separated from his beloved as he crosses the wilderness to get wealth addresses his heart, telling it that it must not think of her and must not be like the tortoise in the sacrificial pit longing for its cool, shadowed pond.  George Hart




From hermantull at gmail.com  Wed Jul 31 21:24:47 2013
From: hermantull at gmail.com (Herman Tull)
Date: Wed, 31 Jul 13 17:24:47 -0400
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Sacrificial Tortoise?
In-Reply-To: <03861D86-0C2B-4013-857B-26D1A1970353@berkeley.edu>
Message-ID: <CAFdBLNiEQqnCr4WAKFuWiWMdOhusULcXFj2YrOJVLkLFGH8_vQ@mail.gmail.com>

Well-known is the SB's description of the placing of a tortoise in the
first layer of the agnicayana (Eggeling's translation): "He then puts down
a (living) tortoise (kUrmaH);--the tortoise means life sap: it is life-sap
(blood) he thus bestows on Agni..." (the explanation continues on for about
ten sections -- SB 7.5.1.1 ff.)

Herman Tull


On Wed, Jul 31, 2013 at 5:04 PM, George Hart <glhart at berkeley.edu> wrote:

> Akan????u 361 (probably dating to the first 2 centuries CE) mentions a
> sacrifice in which a tortoise is placed in a fiery sacrificial pit
> (tittiyam) for the gods "whose flowers do not fade" to eat.  This is also
> referred to 5 or 6 centuries later in the C?vakacint?ma?i (2878).  I have
> never heard of such a ritual and am wondering whether it is mentioned in
> Sanskrit.  The poem uses the image quite beautifully: a man separated from
> his beloved as he crosses the wilderness to get wealth addresses his heart,
> telling it that it must not think of her and must not be like the tortoise
> in the sacrificial pit longing for its cool, shadowed pond.  George Hart
> _______________________________________________
> INDOLOGY mailing list
> INDOLOGY at list.indology.info
> http://listinfo.indology.info




-- 
*Herman Tull
Princeton, NJ *


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From reimann at berkeley.edu  Wed Jul 31 21:49:12 2013
From: reimann at berkeley.edu (Luis Gonzalez-Reimann)
Date: Wed, 31 Jul 13 14:49:12 -0700
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Sacrificial Tortoise?
In-Reply-To: <CAFdBLNiEQqnCr4WAKFuWiWMdOhusULcXFj2YrOJVLkLFGH8_vQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <51F98658.40409@berkeley.edu>

Hi George,

You can look at the beginning of /S'atapatha Bra-hman.a/ 7.5.1 
(Ma-dhyandina, 9.4.2 in the Ka-n.va recension) for the use of a tortoise 
in the ritual.

Luis Gonz?lez-Reimann
_____


on 7/31/2013 2:24 PM Herman Tull wrote:
> Well-known is the SB's description of the placing of a tortoise in the 
> first layer of the agnicayana (Eggeling's translation): "He then puts 
> down a (living) tortoise (kUrmaH);--the tortoise means life sap: it is 
> life-sap (blood) he thus bestows on Agni..." (the explanation 
> continues on for about ten sections -- SB 7.5.1.1 ff.)
>
> Herman Tull
>
>
> On Wed, Jul 31, 2013 at 5:04 PM, George Hart <glhart at berkeley.edu 
> <mailto:glhart at berkeley.edu>> wrote:
>
>     Akana-n_u-r_u 361 (probably dating to the first 2 centuries CE)
>     mentions a sacrifice in which a tortoise is placed in a fiery
>     sacrificial pit (tittiyam) for the gods "whose flowers do not
>     fade" to eat.  This is also referred to 5 or 6 centuries later in
>     the Ci-vakacinta-man.i (2878).  I have never heard of such a
>     ritual and am wondering whether it is mentioned in Sanskrit.  The
>     poem uses the image quite beautifully: a man separated from his
>     beloved as he crosses the wilderness to get wealth addresses his
>     heart, telling it that it must not think of her and must not be
>     like the tortoise in the sacrificial pit longing for its cool,
>     shadowed pond.  George Hart
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>
>
>
>
> -- 
> *Herman Tull
> Princeton, NJ *
>
>
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