From soni at STAFF.UNI-MARBURG.DE Mon Oct 1 00:25:15 2012 From: soni at STAFF.UNI-MARBURG.DE (Jayandra Soni) Date: Mon, 01 Oct 12 02:25:15 +0200 Subject: Vi-duu 3 in Landscape format Message-ID: <161227097424.23782.4066395810142725545.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Dear List Members, It is a pleasure to flash the next issue of Vi-duu, Vidyud-duutah, the E-Messenger, this time in Landscape format, with many thanks to the authors for writing their pieces especially for this issue. Once again it is hoped that you can enjoy it during a short break in between your tight schedule, with a cup of tea or coffee. Members of the IASS already have this, so apologies for the file in dual and/or plural numbers. With best wishes, Jayendra ------------------------------ Jayandra Soni, Ph.Dd. (BHU and McMaster) Formerly: Lecturer Department of Indology and Tibetology, Philipps-Universitaet Marburg, Germany (from October 1991 till retirement at the end of April 2012). http://www.uni-marburg.de/fb10/iksl/indologie/fachgebiet/mitarbeiter/soni Secretary General, International Association of Sanskrit Studies Elected January 2012 in Delhi http://www.sanskrit.nic.in/IASS/HOME_page.htm -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Vi-duu03LS.pdf Type: application/pdf Size: 223009 bytes Desc: not available URL: From jmchugh at USC.EDU Mon Oct 1 20:13:26 2012 From: jmchugh at USC.EDU (James McHugh) Date: Mon, 01 Oct 12 13:13:26 -0700 Subject: Training in Imaging at USC Message-ID: <161227097457.23782.16964925400696681685.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Some members of the list might be interested in the following announcement, apparently applications from South Asianists would be welcomed: > ANNOUNCING > > > A NEW TRAINING Program for Scholars, conservators and researchers in > the Use of Reflectance Transformation imaging (RTI) for Documenting > ancient texts and artifacts including the Loan of Imaging Equipment > > > The University of Southern California's West Semitic Research Project > (www.usc.edu/dept/LAS/wsrp) has received grants from the Institute > for Museum and Library Services (IMLS) and the Andrew W. Mellon > Foundation to establish a Training Program in advanced imaging > technologies for the documentation of ancient texts and artifacts > with an initial emphasis on Reflectance Transformation Imaging (RTI). > The IMLS and the Mellon Foundation have also funded the purchase of > imaging equipment to support the Training Program. > > The objective of this project is to develop an infrastructure for > training scholars in the use of RTI technology and subsequently to > lend the necessary imaging equipment to participants in the training > program so they can do an initial RTI documentation project either in > field environments (archaeological sites, etc.) or in libraries, > museums and/or other similar venues, worldwide. This initial > undertaking should be understood to be a pilot project that can > develop into an ongoing, broader documentary effort and preferably > may also serve as the catalyst for establishing a consortial network > for image documentation of a given corpus (or corpora) of ancient > texts and/or artifacts. All equipment to be lent out is both rugged > and compact and is thus ideal for doing sophisticated imaging in > remote locations. Twenty-four awards over three years (approximately > eight per year) for traineeships will be provided based on the merit > and intrinsic importance of a proposed pilot imaging project as well > as the appropriateness of the subject matter for RTI imaging. > > For more information, see > http://www.usc.edu/dept/LAS/wsrp/Training_Program.pdf or contact > Marilyn Lundberg (mlundber at usc.edu) or Bruce Zuckerman > (bzuckerm at usc.edu). > > -- > Marilyn J. Lundberg, Ph.D. > Associate Director, West Semitic Research > Associate Editor, MAARAV > 12 Empty Saddle Road > Rolling Hills Estates, CA 90274 > Tel: 310-541-4573; Fax: 310-541-2361 > Web Sites: http://www.usc.edu/dept/LAS/wsrp > http://www.inscriptifact.com > http://www.maarav.com James McHugh Assistant Professor Of Religion School of Religion University of Southern California -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From vanessa.sasson at MCGILL.CA Mon Oct 1 14:58:46 2012 From: vanessa.sasson at MCGILL.CA (Vanessa Sasson, Dr.) Date: Mon, 01 Oct 12 14:58:46 +0000 Subject: hinduism film recommendations Message-ID: <161227097438.23782.7243446600291142959.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Dear colleagues, A few weeks ago, I asked for film recommendations for an introduction to Hinduism course and received a flood of wonderful suggestions. As promised, I am sending you here the results of that discussion thread. I am sure many of you will find the list of recommendations useful for your own classrooms as well. I mentioned in the email that a similar discussion took place on H-Buddhism a few months back and a number of you asked if you could see the list of sources that circulated as a result of that discussion. I have asked Sarah Jacoby, the scholar who offered to compile the suggestions into one file, if I could share her file with this list and she happily agreed. I am therefore attaching here for you two documents - recommendations for Buddhism and recommendations for Hinduism. If I can figure out, I will also post these on the Indology FAQ. Best wishes, vanessa -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: buddhismvideoslist.docx Type: application/vnd.openxmlformats-officedocument.wordprocessingml.document Size: 45253 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: hinduismfilmrecommendations.docx Type: application/vnd.openxmlformats-officedocument.wordprocessingml.document Size: 32310 bytes Desc: not available URL: From himal.trikha at UNIVIE.AC.AT Mon Oct 1 14:26:15 2012 From: himal.trikha at UNIVIE.AC.AT (Himal Trikha) Date: Mon, 01 Oct 12 16:26:15 +0200 Subject: andhagajany=?utf-8?Q?=C4=81ya?= Message-ID: <161227097428.23782.12262741215879292487.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Dear list members, I am currently attempting to identify instances of the andhagajany?ya in classical South Asian literature and would greatly appreciate your help. Despite its popularity today, the maxim seems rarely attested in classical works. So far, I have been able to identify only nine works (see below), in which the maxim is mentioned. I would be very thankful if you could refer me to any other instances of the maxim or to secondary literature, in which it is discussed. Thank you very much and with best regards Himal Trikha --- Buddhist works: *Arthavarg?yas?tra, Ud?na (and commentary), Tarkajv?l?, *Mah?y?nasa?graha Advaita: Chandogyopani?adbh??ya, Nai?karmyasiddhi (and commentary), B?had?ra?yakopani?adbh??yav?rttika (and commentary) Jaina: ?a?dar?anasamuccayalaghuv?tti, Sy?dv?dama?jar? For bibliographical details and secondary literature see http://homepage.univie.ac.at/himal.trikha/lehre/andhagaja/2_bibl.pdf -- Dr. Himal Trikha Research Fellow Institute for the Cultural and Intellectual History of Asia Austrian Academy of Sciences http://ikga.oeaw.ac.at From wujastyk at GMAIL.COM Mon Oct 1 14:53:16 2012 From: wujastyk at GMAIL.COM (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Mon, 01 Oct 12 16:53:16 +0200 Subject: andhagajany=?UTF-8?Q?=C4=81ya?= In-Reply-To: <9bdee5f28e8ee7b40cde7726cc227c5c.squirrel@webmail.univie.ac.at> Message-ID: <161227097432.23782.7150031862252516210.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Dear Himal, I guess you've already got this, from Col. Jacob, vol.1, p.3 : [image: Inline images 1] Best, Dominik -- Dr Dominik Wujastyk Department of South Asia, Tibetan and Buddhist Studies , University of Vienna, Spitalgasse 2-4, Courtyard 2, Entrance 2.1 1090 Vienna, Austria and Adjunct Professor, Division of Health and Humanities, St. John's Research Institute, Bangalore, India. Project | home page| PGP On 1 October 2012 16:26, Himal Trikha wrote: > Dear list members, > > I am currently attempting to identify instances of the andhagajany?ya in > classical South Asian literature and would greatly appreciate your help. > > Despite its popularity today, the maxim seems rarely attested in classical > works. So far, I have been able to identify only nine works (see below), > in which the maxim is mentioned. I would be very thankful if you could > refer me to any other instances of the maxim or to secondary literature, > in which it is discussed. > > Thank you very much and > > with best regards > > Himal Trikha > > --- > > Buddhist works: *Arthavarg?yas?tra, Ud?na (and commentary), Tarkajv?l?, > *Mah?y?nasa?graha > > Advaita: Chandogyopani?adbh??ya, Nai?karmyasiddhi (and commentary), > B?had?ra?yakopani?adbh??yav?rttika (and commentary) > > Jaina: ?a?dar?anasamuccayalaghuv?tti, Sy?dv?dama?jar? > > For bibliographical details and secondary literature see > http://homepage.univie.ac.at/himal.trikha/lehre/andhagaja/2_bibl.pdf > > -- > Dr. Himal Trikha > Research Fellow > Institute for the Cultural and Intellectual History of Asia > Austrian Academy of Sciences > http://ikga.oeaw.ac.at > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: 51.png Type: image/png Size: 111164 bytes Desc: not available URL: From christopher.austin at DAL.CA Mon Oct 1 20:14:25 2012 From: christopher.austin at DAL.CA (Christopher Austin) Date: Mon, 01 Oct 12 17:14:25 -0300 Subject: Commentators on the Vishnu Purana In-Reply-To: <008401cd9ff5$e0cd3080$a2679180$@com> Message-ID: <161227097459.23782.9455841227947139991.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Hello James, I use: Parimal Sanskrit Series no.21 : Visnumahapuranam of Maharsi Vedavyasa. With the Sanskrit Commentary "Atmaprakasa" of Sridharacarya (vol.I : amsas 1-3; vol. II: amsas 4-6). Edited by PT. Thaneshachandra Upreti. Delhi: Parimal Publications 2011. This is a new printing, nice clear nagari text with the commentary of the 14th century Sridharasvami whose commentary on the Bhagavata is well known. I also use the Pathak Baroda 2-volume critical edition ViP which offers the BORI-style 2-column apparatus layout -- but no commentaries. I as well would be curious to hear what other ViP commentaries beyond Sridhara are available & in use by others. Best, Chris Dr. Christopher R. Austin Assistant Professor Dalhousie University Dept. of Classics - Religious Studies Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada B3H 4R2 (902)-494-6922 christopher.austin at dal.ca Quoting James Hegarty : > Dear Colleagues, > > > > Are any of you aware of works that take up commentators on the Vishnu > Purana? > > > > I have been asked about commentaries on this text by a student and am > embarrassingly ignorant! > > > > Should anyone have any texts of these commentaries (or references for them, > if printed editions exist), I would also be grateful. > > > > The student reads Sanskrit well. > > > > Thanks in Anticipation, > > > > James Hegarty > > Cardiff University > > From francois.voegeli at GMAIL.COM Mon Oct 1 15:37:36 2012 From: francois.voegeli at GMAIL.COM (Francois Voegeli) Date: Mon, 01 Oct 12 17:37:36 +0200 Subject: Date of Musanagar Brick Inscription Message-ID: <161227097443.23782.123962396542034586.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Dear Members of the List, First, heartfelt thanks to those who have helped me with the Naanaaghaa.t Inscription (Harry Falk, Richard Salomon, Manu Francis, J?rgen Neuss, Suresh Kolichala and Andrew Ollett). In the wake of this discussion, I would like to ask the distinguished epigraphists on this list what they think of the date of a Braahmii inscription found on a brick unearthed at Musanagar, Uttar Pradesh (if I am not mistaken?). This inscription was edited by A. S. Altekar in Epigraphia Indica 30 (1953?54), No. 21, pp. 118?120 (with one plate). The editor remarks that this short record shares some common epigraphical features with the Pabhosaa and Haathigumphaa inscriptions (op. cit. p. 119). He further states (op. cit. p. 120) that it could be dated between 150 and 50 BC. It seems to my rather untrained eye that it shares some common characteristics not only with the two aforementioned inscriptions but also with the Naanaaghaat inscription. I would be tempted to ascribe it a date similar to the Haathigumphaa and Naanaaghaa.t inscriptions, possibly later than these two inscriptions. Please let me know if I am wrong. NB: if need be, I can send a pdf of the article with the plate. The date of this latter inscription is important to me because, after having made a survey of more than 3'000 inscriptions looking for attestations of Vedic ritual in epigraphy, it belongs to the three oldest I could find. The two other ones being the Naanaaghaa.t and Haathigumphaa inscriptions. Many thanks in advance, Dr Fran?ois Voegeli Senior FNS Researcher Institut d'Arch?ologie et des Sciences de l'Antiquit? Anthropole, bureau 4018 Facult? des Lettres Universit? de Lausanne CH-1015 Lausanne -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From hegartyjm at GOOGLEMAIL.COM Mon Oct 1 16:57:40 2012 From: hegartyjm at GOOGLEMAIL.COM (James Hegarty) Date: Mon, 01 Oct 12 17:57:40 +0100 Subject: Commentators on the Vishnu Purana Message-ID: <161227097451.23782.8601906416842565686.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Dear Colleagues, Are any of you aware of works that take up commentators on the Vishnu Purana? I have been asked about commentaries on this text by a student and am embarrassingly ignorant! Should anyone have any texts of these commentaries (or references for them, if printed editions exist), I would also be grateful. The student reads Sanskrit well. Thanks in Anticipation, James Hegarty Cardiff University -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From christophe.vielle at UCLOUVAIN.BE Mon Oct 1 16:22:30 2012 From: christophe.vielle at UCLOUVAIN.BE (Christophe Vielle) Date: Mon, 01 Oct 12 18:22:30 +0200 Subject: hinduism film recommendations In-Reply-To: <38375358-1993-4C30-AB67-163D85892324@uclouvain.be> Message-ID: <161227097448.23782.9674925612975452951.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> This is maybe not relevant, but a recent film, "Papilio Buddha" by Jayan K. Cherian, dealing with a group of Dalits in Kerala embracing (Ambedkar neo-)Buddhism, is at the moment suffering censorship in India. See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Papilio_Buddha http://papiliobuddha.com Trailer : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fdb2UfHRv6Q http://www.imdb.com/video/wab/vi1376690713/ Articles: http://www.thehindu.com/news/cities/Kochi/article3876988.ece http://www.thehindu.com/arts/cinema/the-butterfly-effect/article3954653.ece http://www.globalindianewswire.com/index.php/20120902438/Features/Entertainment/censor-boards-rejection-of-ny-based-directors-malayalam-film-triggers-debate.html http://www.metromatinee.com/News/%20?The%20denial%20of%20Papilio%20Buddha%20is%20a%20clear%20violation%20of%20freedom%20of%20artistic%20expression:%20%20Jayan%20Cherian-4405-1 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X1I_hsLANrU http://www.business-standard.com/generalnews/news/makerspapilio-buddha-move-censor-tribunal/57920/ http://ibnlive.in.com/news/ban-on-papilio-buddha-is-fascism/293333-60-123.html http://www.bollywoodlife.com/news-gossip/malayalam-film-papilio-buddha-in-hot-water-over-gandhi-slight/ Best wishes, Christophe Vielle Le 1 oct. 2012 ? 17:23, Christophe Vielle a ?crit : > > > D?but du message r?exp?di? : > >> De : "Vanessa Sasson, Dr." >> Objet : [INDOLOGY] hinduism film recommendations >> Date : 1 octobre 2012 16:58:46 HAEC >> ? : INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk >> R?pondre ? : "Vanessa Sasson, Dr." >> >> Dear colleagues, >> >> A few weeks ago, I asked for film recommendations for an introduction to Hinduism course and received a flood of wonderful suggestions. As promised, I am sending you here the results of that discussion thread. I am sure many of you will find the list of recommendations useful for your own classrooms as well. >> >> I mentioned in the email that a similar discussion took place on H-Buddhism a few months back and a number of you asked if you could see the list of sources that circulated as a result of that discussion. I have asked Sarah Jacoby, the scholar who offered to compile the suggestions into one file, if I could share her file with this list and she happily agreed. I am therefore attaching here for you two documents ? recommendations for Buddhism and recommendations for Hinduism. If I can figure out, I will also post these on the Indology FAQ. >> >> Best wishes, >> vanessa > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From wujastyk at GMAIL.COM Mon Oct 1 18:52:11 2012 From: wujastyk at GMAIL.COM (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Mon, 01 Oct 12 20:52:11 +0200 Subject: Entire Field of Particle Physics Is Set to Switch to Open-Access Publishing Message-ID: <161227097454.23782.12281727040855213857.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> My colleague and friend Thomas Kintaert brought this report to my attention just now: Entire Field of Particle Physics Is Set to Switch to Open-Access Publishing A consortium has brokered an agreement with 12 journals to ensure that nearly all particle physics articles are made immediately free on journal Web sites By Richard Van Noordenand Nature magazine Full text: http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=entire-field-particle-physics-switch-to-open-access This is a very interesting and important development, and one that we Indologists could consider emulating. Best, Dominik Wujastyk -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dbhattacharya200498 at YAHOO.COM Tue Oct 2 02:14:41 2012 From: dbhattacharya200498 at YAHOO.COM (Dipak Bhattacharya) Date: Tue, 02 Oct 12 10:14:41 +0800 Subject: Commentators on the Vishnu Purana In-Reply-To: <20121001171425.143235495ywnpneo@wm4.dal.ca> Message-ID: <161227097462.23782.11569922763684452996.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Not a high profile publication, I use an edition in Bengali character with a Bengali translation brought about by Panchanan Tarkaratna and his associates in the beginning of the last century. The edition is almost devoid of printing errors and is printed in clear modern characters. The translation, unlike many nineteenth century works,is faithful and hence very convenient. The edition is highly prized by modern scholars but, as far as I know,a reprint is not available yet. Best DB ________________________________ From: Christopher Austin To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Sent: Tuesday, 2 October 2012 1:44 AM Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] Commentators on the Vishnu Purana Hello James, I use: Parimal Sanskrit Series no.21 : Visnumahapuranam of Maharsi Vedavyasa.? With the Sanskrit Commentary "Atmaprakasa" of Sridharacarya (vol.I :? amsas 1-3; vol. II: amsas 4-6). Edited by PT. Thaneshachandra Upreti.? Delhi: Parimal Publications 2011. This is a new printing, nice clear? nagari text with the commentary of the 14th century Sridharasvami? whose commentary on the Bhagavata is well known. I also use the Pathak Baroda 2-volume critical edition ViP which? offers the BORI-style 2-column apparatus layout -- but no commentaries. I as well would be curious to hear what other ViP commentaries beyond? Sridhara are available & in use by others. Best, Chris Dr. Christopher R. Austin Assistant Professor Dalhousie University Dept. of Classics - Religious Studies Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada B3H 4R2 (902)-494-6922 christopher.austin at dal.ca Quoting James Hegarty : > Dear Colleagues, > > > > Are any of you aware of works that take up commentators on the Vishnu > Purana? > > > > I have been asked about commentaries on this text by a student and am > embarrassingly ignorant! > > > > Should anyone have any texts of these commentaries (or references for them, > if printed editions exist), I would also be grateful. > > > > The student reads Sanskrit well. > > > > Thanks in Anticipation, > > > > James Hegarty > > Cardiff University > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From e.ciurtin at GMAIL.COM Tue Oct 2 11:30:59 2012 From: e.ciurtin at GMAIL.COM (Eugen Ciurtin) Date: Tue, 02 Oct 12 14:30:59 +0300 Subject: andhagajany=?UTF-8?Q?=C4=81ya?= In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227097466.23782.14760858600600989876.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> A slightly different reading of Udaana 68-9 Steinthal was recently offered by Minoru Hara, "A note on the Sanskrit word andha", *IIJ* 49 (2006), pp. 273-303 (see esp. 275 and 278-280). Eugen 2012/10/1 Dominik Wujastyk > Dear Himal, > > I guess you've already got this, from Col. Jacob, vol.1, p.3 > : > > [image: Inline images 1] > > Best, > Dominik > > -- > Dr Dominik Wujastyk > Department of South Asia, Tibetan and Buddhist Studies > , > University of Vienna, > Spitalgasse 2-4, Courtyard 2, Entrance 2.1 > 1090 Vienna, Austria > and > Adjunct Professor, > Division of Health and Humanities, > St. John's Research Institute, Bangalore, India. > Project | home page| > PGP > > > > > On 1 October 2012 16:26, Himal Trikha wrote: > >> Dear list members, >> >> I am currently attempting to identify instances of the andhagajany?ya in >> classical South Asian literature and would greatly appreciate your help. >> >> Despite its popularity today, the maxim seems rarely attested in classical >> works. So far, I have been able to identify only nine works (see below), >> in which the maxim is mentioned. I would be very thankful if you could >> refer me to any other instances of the maxim or to secondary literature, >> in which it is discussed. >> >> Thank you very much and >> >> with best regards >> >> Himal Trikha >> >> --- >> >> Buddhist works: *Arthavarg?yas?tra, Ud?na (and commentary), Tarkajv?l?, >> *Mah?y?nasa?graha >> >> Advaita: Chandogyopani?adbh??ya, Nai?karmyasiddhi (and commentary), >> B?had?ra?yakopani?adbh??yav?rttika (and commentary) >> >> Jaina: ?a?dar?anasamuccayalaghuv?tti, Sy?dv?dama?jar? >> >> For bibliographical details and secondary literature see >> http://homepage.univie.ac.at/himal.trikha/lehre/andhagaja/2_bibl.pdf >> >> -- >> Dr. Himal Trikha >> Research Fellow >> Institute for the Cultural and Intellectual History of Asia >> Austrian Academy of Sciences >> http://ikga.oeaw.ac.at >> > > -- Dr E. Ciurtin Secretary of the Romanian Association for the History of Religions Publications Officer of the European Association for the Study of Religions www.easr.eu Lecturer & Secretary of the Scientific Council Institute for the History of Religions, Romanian Academy Calea 13 Septembrie no. 13 sect. 5, Bucharest 050711 Phone: 00 40 733 951 953 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: 51.png Type: image/png Size: 111164 bytes Desc: not available URL: From shrimaitreya at GMAIL.COM Tue Oct 2 15:35:58 2012 From: shrimaitreya at GMAIL.COM ((Maitreya) Borayin Larios) Date: Tue, 02 Oct 12 17:35:58 +0200 Subject: Knipe's Article Message-ID: <161227097470.23782.10918466198290991219.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Dear List, Does anyone have access to this paper: David M. Knipe*,* *The Vocation of Vedam, the Selection of Srautam: Vedic Brahmans in Coastal Andhra.* The paper was presented at the Meeting of the Asian Studies Association in Chicago in 1997. If anyone could provide me with a PDF or tell me where I can get it, I would highly appreciate it. Thank you! ______________________________ (Maitreya) Borayin Larios J?gerpfad 13 69118 Heidelberg Germany Mobile: (+49)17630489172 Home: (+49)62211379228 http://www.sai.uni-heidelberg.de/abt/IND/mitarbeiter/larios/larios.php http://www.flickr.com/photos/shrimaitreya/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From christophe.vielle at UCLOUVAIN.BE Tue Oct 2 16:41:27 2012 From: christophe.vielle at UCLOUVAIN.BE (Christophe Vielle) Date: Tue, 02 Oct 12 18:41:27 +0200 Subject: Commentators on the Vishnu Purana In-Reply-To: <005501cda097$14246dd0$3c6d4970$@com> Message-ID: <161227097475.23782.18153899587688290210.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Here is the scan of the ViP CE vol. 1 p. 16 which might be of some interest to the list. > From: Christophe Vielle [mailto:christophe.vielle at uclouvain.be] > Sent: 01 October 2012 21:11 > To: James Hegarty > Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] Commentators on the Vishnu Purana > > Dear James, > the Baroda Critical edition of the ViP (The Critical Edition of the Vi??upur??am, ed. M. M. Pathak, 2 vols, Vadodara: Oriental Institute, 1997-1999) lists several commentaries (and their editions) under "Testimonia", vol. 1, p. 16 (I can scan this page tomorrow). > I think that the earliest one is by ?r?dh?ra, publ. in the 1907 Ve?ka?e?vara Steam Press ed. (reprinted, e.g. Nag Publishers) of the ViP (on the date of this commentator, see P.K. Gode, Studies in Indian Literary History, vol. 2, 1954, p. 169 sq. "between c. A.D. 1350 and 1450": http://archive.org/details/StudiesInIndianLiteraryHistoryVolume2 ). > Best wishes, > Christophe > > > Le 1 oct. 2012 ? 18:57, James Hegarty a ?crit : > > > Dear Colleagues, > > Are any of you aware of works that take up commentators on the Vishnu Purana? > > I have been asked about commentaries on this text by a student and am embarrassingly ignorant! > > Should anyone have any texts of these commentaries (or references for them, if printed editions exist), I would also be grateful. > > The student reads Sanskrit well. > > Thanks in Anticipation, > > James Hegarty > Cardiff University -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: ViP-commentaries.PDF Type: application/pdf Size: 85134 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From palaniappa at AOL.COM Wed Oct 3 06:12:39 2012 From: palaniappa at AOL.COM (Sudalaimuthu Palaniappan) Date: Wed, 03 Oct 12 02:12:39 -0400 Subject: Pu=?utf-8?Q?=E1=B9=9Fam?= 332.5-6 Message-ID: <161227097483.23782.1917409091591837574.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Dear Indologists, I am intrigued by the words "ma?kala maka?ir" in the following lines. ma?kala maka?iro?u m?lai c???i i?kural irumpai y??o?u tatumpa (Pu?am 332.5-6) Interpreting "ma?kala maka?ir" as 'auspicious women' or 'women who are not widows' does not seem to make sense. If the women are supposed to sing as is usually interpreted, one cannot expect ordinary women to be able to sing to the accompaniment of lutes. This kind of singing requires significant training in music which is not expected of the women of the household depicted in the poem. What is more likely is the women who sing to the accompaniment of lutes were bardic women such as vi?aliyar or p??i?iyar. Thanks in advance for any comments. Regards, Palaniappan -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jmchugh at USC.EDU Wed Oct 3 16:51:18 2012 From: jmchugh at USC.EDU (James McHugh) Date: Wed, 03 Oct 12 09:51:18 -0700 Subject: Book announcement: smell and perfumery in India Message-ID: <161227097506.23782.6361568198257813589.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Dear List, I am pleased to announce the publication of my book on the history of the sense of smell and perfumery in pre-modern India: James McHugh. Sandalwood and Carrion: Smell in Indian Religion and Culture (Oxford University Press, 2012). Paperback, 322 pages. http://www.oup.com/us/catalog/general/subject/ReligionTheology/Hinduism/?view=usa&ci=9780199916320#Description Best, James James McHugh Assistant Professor Of Religion School of Religion University of Southern California -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mmdesh at UMICH.EDU Wed Oct 3 13:54:00 2012 From: mmdesh at UMICH.EDU (Madhav Deshpande) Date: Wed, 03 Oct 12 09:54:00 -0400 Subject: Effects of Title VI cuts in US Area Studies In-Reply-To: <1F66872A1D7E184FADA521025DD5F15A09829B9336@post> Message-ID: <161227097490.23782.2625725346703768308.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Hello Tim, Sanskrit has never been funded through the federal title VI money, since it was restricted to modern languages only. For the sake of the modern languages of South Asia, we are all concerned about these cuts, and hope that the Congress will reinstate the money. But given the political situation in the US Congress, I am very pessimistic. Hope I am wrong. Madhav Deshpande On Wed, Oct 3, 2012 at 9:45 AM, Ulrich T. Kragh wrote: > Dear members of the Indology List, > I have heard and read that the US Congress in 2011 made a nearly 40% (ca. > $50 Mill.) cut in the federal Title VI funding to all language programs and > Area Studies in the USA. For background information, see for example: > > http://www.insidehighered.com/news/2011/04/15/international_education_takes_hit_in_2011_budget > > I would like to know, especially from the American members of the list, > whether and how these cuts have affected programs of Sanskrit, Hindi, > Tamil, and Indian studies in the USA and/or in the study-abroad programs. > > Further, is there any news as to whether the lost funding will be > reinstated in the 2012 budget now being negotiated in the Congress or are > the cuts likely to remain? > > From a concerned European colleague, > Tim > > Dr. Ulrich Timme Kragh > IIAS, Leiden University > -- Madhav M. Deshpande Professor of Sanskrit and Linguistics Department of Asian Languages and Cultures 202 South Thayer Street, Suite 6111 The University of Michigan Ann Arbor, MI 48104-1608, USA -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From andrew.ollett at GMAIL.COM Wed Oct 3 14:23:20 2012 From: andrew.ollett at GMAIL.COM (Andrew Ollett) Date: Wed, 03 Oct 12 10:23:20 -0400 Subject: Effects of Title VI cuts in US Area Studies In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227097496.23782.9349050769157455734.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Actually, Title VI also covers the Fulbright-Hays Doctoral Dissertation Research Abroad (DDRA) program. Many students of Sanskrit (and other premodern languages) have done research funded through this program. In FY 2011 it was cancelled due to major cuts in Title VI. In FY 2012 Title VI/Fulbright-Hays received about the same amount of funding as FY 2012, but the program was suddenly reinstated and awards have been made. Nothing definite as yet for FY 2013. See: http://www.nhalliance.org/bm~tags/title-vi/, http://www2.ed.gov/programs/iegpsddrap/index.html. On Wed, Oct 3, 2012 at 10:10 AM, Jonathan Silk wrote: > dear Madhav, > > Actually, although the rationale of this always escaped me, what you wrote > is not quite so: I indeed received two years of FLAS funding to study > Sanskrit with you in the 1980s! The story I always heard is that someone > found a census of India in which some village claimed Sanskrit as their > everyday tongue, and this qualified it under title VI. Whatever the truth > of the story was, it would indeed be difficult to make the case that > Sanskrit is a 'strategic language' in any normal sense of that expression! > > Very best, Jonathan > > > On Wed, Oct 3, 2012 at 3:54 PM, Madhav Deshpande wrote: > >> Hello Tim, >> >> Sanskrit has never been funded through the federal title VI money, >> since it was restricted to modern languages only. For the sake of the >> modern languages of South Asia, we are all concerned about these cuts, and >> hope that the Congress will reinstate the money. But given the political >> situation in the US Congress, I am very pessimistic. Hope I am wrong. >> >> Madhav Deshpande >> >> On Wed, Oct 3, 2012 at 9:45 AM, Ulrich T. Kragh wrote: >> >>> Dear members of the Indology List, >>> I have heard and read that the US Congress in 2011 made a nearly 40% >>> (ca. $50 Mill.) cut in the federal Title VI funding to all language >>> programs and Area Studies in the USA. For background information, see for >>> example: >>> >>> http://www.insidehighered.com/news/2011/04/15/international_education_takes_hit_in_2011_budget >>> >>> I would like to know, especially from the American members of the list, >>> whether and how these cuts have affected programs of Sanskrit, Hindi, >>> Tamil, and Indian studies in the USA and/or in the study-abroad programs. >>> >>> Further, is there any news as to whether the lost funding will be >>> reinstated in the 2012 budget now being negotiated in the Congress or are >>> the cuts likely to remain? >>> >>> From a concerned European colleague, >>> Tim >>> >>> Dr. Ulrich Timme Kragh >>> IIAS, Leiden University >>> >> >> >> >> -- >> Madhav M. Deshpande >> Professor of Sanskrit and Linguistics >> Department of Asian Languages and Cultures >> 202 South Thayer Street, Suite 6111 >> The University of Michigan >> Ann Arbor, MI 48104-1608, USA >> >> > > > -- > J. Silk > Instituut Kern / Universiteit Leiden > Leiden University Institute for Area Studies, LIAS > Johan Huizinga Building, Room 1.37 > Doelensteeg 16 > 2311 VL Leiden > The Netherlands > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From wc3 at SOAS.AC.UK Wed Oct 3 15:45:03 2012 From: wc3 at SOAS.AC.UK (Whitney Cox) Date: Wed, 03 Oct 12 10:45:03 -0500 Subject: Effects of Title VI cuts in US Area Studies In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227097499.23782.6074732624172953462.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> I just received this announcement today: http://www.ed.gov/news/press-releases/32-million-grants-awarded-fulbright-hays-doctoral-dissertation-research-abroad On 3 October 2012 09:23, Andrew Ollett wrote: > Actually, Title VI also covers the Fulbright-Hays Doctoral Dissertation > Research Abroad (DDRA) program. Many students of Sanskrit (and other > premodern languages) have done research funded through this program. In FY > 2011 it was cancelled due to major cuts in Title VI. In FY 2012 Title > VI/Fulbright-Hays received about the same amount of funding as FY 2012, but > the program was suddenly reinstated and awards have been made. Nothing > definite as yet for FY 2013. > > See: http://www.nhalliance.org/bm~tags/title-vi/, > http://www2.ed.gov/programs/iegpsddrap/index.html. > > On Wed, Oct 3, 2012 at 10:10 AM, Jonathan Silk wrote: > >> dear Madhav, >> >> Actually, although the rationale of this always escaped me, what you >> wrote is not quite so: I indeed received two years of FLAS funding to study >> Sanskrit with you in the 1980s! The story I always heard is that someone >> found a census of India in which some village claimed Sanskrit as their >> everyday tongue, and this qualified it under title VI. Whatever the truth >> of the story was, it would indeed be difficult to make the case that >> Sanskrit is a 'strategic language' in any normal sense of that expression! >> >> Very best, Jonathan >> >> >> On Wed, Oct 3, 2012 at 3:54 PM, Madhav Deshpande wrote: >> >>> Hello Tim, >>> >>> Sanskrit has never been funded through the federal title VI money, >>> since it was restricted to modern languages only. For the sake of the >>> modern languages of South Asia, we are all concerned about these cuts, and >>> hope that the Congress will reinstate the money. But given the political >>> situation in the US Congress, I am very pessimistic. Hope I am wrong. >>> >>> Madhav Deshpande >>> >>> On Wed, Oct 3, 2012 at 9:45 AM, Ulrich T. Kragh wrote: >>> >>>> Dear members of the Indology List, >>>> I have heard and read that the US Congress in 2011 made a nearly 40% >>>> (ca. $50 Mill.) cut in the federal Title VI funding to all language >>>> programs and Area Studies in the USA. For background information, see for >>>> example: >>>> >>>> http://www.insidehighered.com/news/2011/04/15/international_education_takes_hit_in_2011_budget >>>> >>>> I would like to know, especially from the American members of the list, >>>> whether and how these cuts have affected programs of Sanskrit, Hindi, >>>> Tamil, and Indian studies in the USA and/or in the study-abroad programs. >>>> >>>> Further, is there any news as to whether the lost funding will be >>>> reinstated in the 2012 budget now being negotiated in the Congress or are >>>> the cuts likely to remain? >>>> >>>> From a concerned European colleague, >>>> Tim >>>> >>>> Dr. Ulrich Timme Kragh >>>> IIAS, Leiden University >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Madhav M. Deshpande >>> Professor of Sanskrit and Linguistics >>> Department of Asian Languages and Cultures >>> 202 South Thayer Street, Suite 6111 >>> The University of Michigan >>> Ann Arbor, MI 48104-1608, USA >>> >>> >> >> >> -- >> J. Silk >> Instituut Kern / Universiteit Leiden >> Leiden University Institute for Area Studies, LIAS >> Johan Huizinga Building, Room 1.37 >> Doelensteeg 16 >> 2311 VL Leiden >> The Netherlands >> >> > -- Dr. Whitney Cox Senior Lecturer in Sanskrit Department of the Languages and Cultures of South Asia, SOAS, University of London Thornhaugh Street, Russell Square London WC1H 0XG -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From glhart at BERKELEY.EDU Wed Oct 3 18:28:56 2012 From: glhart at BERKELEY.EDU (George Hart) Date: Wed, 03 Oct 12 11:28:56 -0700 Subject: Pu=?utf-8?Q?=E1=B9=9Fam?= 332.5-6 In-Reply-To: <8CF6F4539D4F0E2-1BCC-86698@webmail-m020.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <161227097514.23782.13883934552354558975.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Dear Palaniappan, Here's the translation Hank Heifetz and I published -- I know you've seen it, but the poem is intriguing and worth sharing: 332 The spear that belongs to the warrior from this city is not like the spears of other men but its worth is immense. It may rest in the eaves of a hut, its long back gathering dust. It may travel, garlanded, in procession around the streets and reservoirs of pure water while the sweet voices of virtuous women mingle with the notes of y??s that had been stored in large sacks. Or it may advance so that the entire land of the enemy reels! Should the spear do that, then it never stops thrusting into the faces of the massive elephants of kings with their armies like the vast ocean! The song of Viriy?r Nakka??r. Ti?ai: v?kai. Tu?ai: m?ti?mullai. In addition to your suggestion that it might mean Vi?ali's, I wonder whether it might refer to courtesans, since they were called nityasumangali's when they morphed into Devadasis. It is worth noting that this would seem to be a predecessor of the ul? prabandham genre. I'd love to hear if you can find anything to clarify this. George Hart On Oct 2, 2012, at 11:12 PM, Sudalaimuthu Palaniappan wrote: > Dear Indologists, > > I am intrigued by the words "ma?kala maka?ir" in the following lines. > > ma?kala maka?iro?u m?lai c???i > i?kural irumpai y??o?u tatumpa (Pu?am 332.5-6) > > Interpreting "ma?kala maka?ir" as 'auspicious women' or 'women who are not widows' does not seem to make sense. If the women are supposed to sing as is usually interpreted, one cannot expect ordinary women to be able to sing to the accompaniment of lutes. This kind of singing requires significant training in music which is not expected of the women of the household depicted in the poem. What is more likely is the women who sing to the accompaniment of lutes were bardic women such as vi?aliyar or p??i?iyar. > > Thanks in advance for any comments. > > Regards, > Palaniappan > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From aprigliano at USP.BR Wed Oct 3 17:23:38 2012 From: aprigliano at USP.BR (Adriano Aprigliano) Date: Wed, 03 Oct 12 14:23:38 -0300 Subject: Nakamura's History of Vedanta Message-ID: <161227097509.23782.2312016004707639212.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Dear list members, I have been trying to find vol. I of Nakamura's History of Vedanta Philosophy, but with no success. Does anyone happen to have a digital version of it? best wishes Adriano Aprigliano Post-doc Researcher Universidade de S?o Paulo S?o Paulo/Brasil -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From aprigliano at USP.BR Wed Oct 3 18:07:58 2012 From: aprigliano at USP.BR (Adriano Aprigliano) Date: Wed, 03 Oct 12 15:07:58 -0300 Subject: Problem solved Message-ID: <161227097512.23782.1771498867164795874.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> I thank the immediate help of Joseph Walser. best for all Adriano Aprigliano From utkragh at HUM.KU.DK Wed Oct 3 13:45:15 2012 From: utkragh at HUM.KU.DK (Ulrich T. Kragh) Date: Wed, 03 Oct 12 15:45:15 +0200 Subject: Effects of Title VI cuts in US Area Studies Message-ID: <161227097487.23782.14325183051245889454.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Dear members of the Indology List, I have heard and read that the US Congress in 2011 made a nearly 40% (ca. $50 Mill.) cut in the federal Title VI funding to all language programs and Area Studies in the USA. For background information, see for example: http://www.insidehighered.com/news/2011/04/15/international_education_takes_hit_in_2011_budget I would like to know, especially from the American members of the list, whether and how these cuts have affected programs of Sanskrit, Hindi, Tamil, and Indian studies in the USA and/or in the study-abroad programs. Further, is there any news as to whether the lost funding will be reinstated in the 2012 budget now being negotiated in the Congress or are the cuts likely to remain? >???From a concerned European colleague, Tim Dr. Ulrich Timme Kragh IIAS, Leiden University -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From kauzeya at GMAIL.COM Wed Oct 3 14:10:11 2012 From: kauzeya at GMAIL.COM (Jonathan Silk) Date: Wed, 03 Oct 12 16:10:11 +0200 Subject: Effects of Title VI cuts in US Area Studies In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227097493.23782.14379406157598991270.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> dear Madhav, Actually, although the rationale of this always escaped me, what you wrote is not quite so: I indeed received two years of FLAS funding to study Sanskrit with you in the 1980s! The story I always heard is that someone found a census of India in which some village claimed Sanskrit as their everyday tongue, and this qualified it under title VI. Whatever the truth of the story was, it would indeed be difficult to make the case that Sanskrit is a 'strategic language' in any normal sense of that expression! Very best, Jonathan On Wed, Oct 3, 2012 at 3:54 PM, Madhav Deshpande wrote: > Hello Tim, > > Sanskrit has never been funded through the federal title VI money, > since it was restricted to modern languages only. For the sake of the > modern languages of South Asia, we are all concerned about these cuts, and > hope that the Congress will reinstate the money. But given the political > situation in the US Congress, I am very pessimistic. Hope I am wrong. > > Madhav Deshpande > > On Wed, Oct 3, 2012 at 9:45 AM, Ulrich T. Kragh wrote: > >> Dear members of the Indology List, >> I have heard and read that the US Congress in 2011 made a nearly 40% (ca. >> $50 Mill.) cut in the federal Title VI funding to all language programs and >> Area Studies in the USA. For background information, see for example: >> >> http://www.insidehighered.com/news/2011/04/15/international_education_takes_hit_in_2011_budget >> >> I would like to know, especially from the American members of the list, >> whether and how these cuts have affected programs of Sanskrit, Hindi, >> Tamil, and Indian studies in the USA and/or in the study-abroad programs. >> >> Further, is there any news as to whether the lost funding will be >> reinstated in the 2012 budget now being negotiated in the Congress or are >> the cuts likely to remain? >> >> From a concerned European colleague, >> Tim >> >> Dr. Ulrich Timme Kragh >> IIAS, Leiden University >> > > > > -- > Madhav M. Deshpande > Professor of Sanskrit and Linguistics > Department of Asian Languages and Cultures > 202 South Thayer Street, Suite 6111 > The University of Michigan > Ann Arbor, MI 48104-1608, USA > > -- J. Silk Instituut Kern / Universiteit Leiden Leiden University Institute for Area Studies, LIAS Johan Huizinga Building, Room 1.37 Doelensteeg 16 2311 VL Leiden The Netherlands -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rajam at EARTHLINK.NET Wed Oct 3 23:35:58 2012 From: rajam at EARTHLINK.NET (rajam) Date: Wed, 03 Oct 12 16:35:58 -0700 Subject: Pu=?UTF-8?Q?=E1=B9=9Fam?= 332.5-6 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227097521.23782.10112777054267016147.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> I wanted to respond to this posting earlier, but got tied up with other things. I'm glad George stepped in. The usage "ma?kala maka?ir" in pu?an????u 332 has a parallel in cilappatik?ram where m?tavi is referred to as a "ma?kala ma?antai" when she and k?vala? give away a great deal of gold on the occasion of celebrating the birth of ma?im?kalai. It is not clear what the author meant -- m?tavi was a participant in a charitable activity (which was also 'auspicious' considering the occasion of childbirth)? or, the cilappatik?ram supports the view that the attribute "ma?kala" has some connection with courtesan(s). Other contexts/phrases to consider from early texts: v?? ma?kalam, ku?ai ma?kalam, ?r ma?kalam, n?? ma?kalam, ma??u ma?kalam, and so on. However, the tirukku?a? uses the term ma?kalam differently: "ma?kalam e?pa ma?ai-m??ci ..." There seems to be a semantic shift in the usage of the term under consideration. Regards, Rajam On Oct 3, 2012, at 11:28 AM, George Hart wrote: > Dear Palaniappan, > > Here's the translation Hank Heifetz and I published -- I know > you've seen it, but the poem is intriguing and worth sharing: > > 332 > > The spear that belongs to the warrior from this city is not > like the spears of other men but its worth is immense. > It may rest in the eaves of a hut, its long back > gathering dust. It may travel, garlanded, in procession > around the streets and reservoirs of pure water while > the sweet voices of virtuous women mingle with the notes > of y??s that had been stored in large sacks. Or it may advance > so that the entire land of the enemy reels! Should the spear do that, > then it never stops thrusting into the faces > of the massive elephants of kings with their armies like the vast > ocean! > > The song of Viriy?r Nakka??r. Ti?ai: v?kai. Tu?ai: > m?ti?mullai. > > In addition to your suggestion that it might mean Vi?ali's, I > wonder whether it might refer to courtesans, since they were called > nityasumangali's when they morphed into Devadasis. It is worth > noting that this would seem to be a predecessor of the ul? > prabandham genre. I'd love to hear if you can find anything to > clarify this. George Hart > > On Oct 2, 2012, at 11:12 PM, Sudalaimuthu Palaniappan > wrote: > >> Dear Indologists, >> >> I am intrigued by the words "ma?kala maka?ir" in the following >> lines. >> >> ma?kala maka?iro?u m?lai c???i >> i?kural irumpai y??o?u tatumpa (Pu?am 332.5-6) >> >> Interpreting "ma?kala maka?ir" as 'auspicious women' or 'women >> who are not widows' does not seem to make sense. If the women are >> supposed to sing as is usually interpreted, one cannot expect >> ordinary women to be able to sing to the accompaniment of lutes. >> This kind of singing requires significant training in music which >> is not expected of the women of the household depicted in the >> poem. What is more likely is the women who sing to the >> accompaniment of lutes were bardic women such as vi?aliyar or >> p??i?iyar. >> >> Thanks in advance for any comments. >> >> Regards, >> Palaniappan >> >> >> > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From pf8 at SOAS.AC.UK Wed Oct 3 16:31:33 2012 From: pf8 at SOAS.AC.UK (Peter Flugel) Date: Wed, 03 Oct 12 17:31:33 +0100 Subject: Conference: Jaina Logic, Centre of Jaina Studies, SOAS 21-22 March 2013 Message-ID: <161227097503.23782.13800367900648410482.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> The programme and the abstracts of the above mentioned conference can be found at the following website: http://www.soas.ac.uk/jainastudies/events/jaina-logic-in-context/21mar2013-15th-jaina-studies-workshop-jaina-logic.html The keynote lecture will be delivered by Professor Piotr Balcerowicz of the University of Warsaw: http://www.soas.ac.uk/jainastudies/events/jaina-logic-in-context/21mar2013-13th-annual-jaina-lecture-jaina-logic-and-epistemology-is-this-how-it-all-began.html Everyone interested is welcome! -- Dr Peter Fl?gel Chair, Centre of Jaina Studies Department of the Study of Religions Faculty of Arts and Humanities School of Oriental and African Studies University of London Thornhaugh Street Russell Square London WC1H OXG Tel.: (+44-20) 7898 4776 E-mail: pf8 at soas.ac.uk http://www.soas.ac.uk/jainastudies -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From palaniappa at AOL.COM Thu Oct 4 00:49:57 2012 From: palaniappa at AOL.COM (Sudalaimuthu Palaniappan) Date: Wed, 03 Oct 12 20:49:57 -0400 Subject: Brahmadhiraja in Tamil Nadu Message-ID: <161227097523.23782.1139080395367509338.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Dear Indologists, I need the following article. "Brahm?dhir?ja in Tamil N?du," by J. Sundaram in Sankaram: Recent Researches on Indian Culture (Professor Srinivasa Sankaranarayan Festschrift) edited by S. S. Ramachandra Murthy, B. Rajendra Prasad, and D. Kiran Kranth Choudary, Harman Publishing House, New Delhi, 2000, pp. 110-120. I would really appreciate if anyone could email me the article offline. Thanks in advance Regards, Palaniappan -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From palaniappa at AOL.COM Thu Oct 4 01:41:07 2012 From: palaniappa at AOL.COM (Sudalaimuthu Palaniappan) Date: Wed, 03 Oct 12 21:41:07 -0400 Subject: Indian school children offered courses in Knowledge Traditions and Practices of India Message-ID: <161227097529.23782.2202347282772753268.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Dominik, I just looked at Module 9: Music in India. I am utterly disappointed with the contents. Seeing the picture of the statue of Ka??aki on the cover, I thought the module would cover the history of music in the Tamil country with a discussion of Cilappatik?ram along with N??ya??stra . After all, there are two sets of names for the seven notes - in Sanskrit and Tamil. There seems to be a deliberate attempt to present a monochromatic Sanskrit-centered view of India instead of presenting the real diversity of cultural elements in India. When they talk about Bhakti music, the authors do not even acknowledge the existence of T?v?ram hymns sung in ?aiva temples. Whether it is the Congress government or BJP government, fundamentalism marches on. Since it looked like the cover was not specific to a module, I looked at the literature modules. They only added to my dismay. Classical period is said to begin from 1200 BC? Classical Tamil literature is not represented. With the presence of people like Michael Danino, I guess I should not expect anything better. Sadly, Palaniappan -----Original Message----- From: Dominik Wujastyk To: INDOLOGY Sent: Wed, Oct 3, 2012 7:58 pm Subject: [INDOLOGY] Indian school children offered courses in Knowledge Traditions and Practices of India Times of India, 21 Sept 2012: NAGPUR: After a successful pilot run, the Central Board of Secondary Education (CBSE) has decided to introduce a new elective course for Std XI. The course known as Knowledge Traditions and Practices of India will be available to students from this academic session under the elective course code no. 073. CBSE's circular says that the newly introduced course has "received an overwhelming response from educationists and the teaching community all over India". It aims to engage students with a sense of exploration and discovery while highlighting the concepts and major achievements in various disciplines of knowledge. This elective is keeping in line with the board's endeavour to develop the curriculum in various subjects with a deep focus on values inherent in Indian education system. This focus further takes shape in facilitating knowledge of traditional practices through the course material developed for students. The various modules of this course have already been put online and a printed book version is currently under process. The board is also preparing a Hindi version of the course. The board has written to principals requesting them to include this elective in their scheme of studies. There are a total of 10 modules being offered by CBSE in this course. Full newspaper text: http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/home/education/news/CBSE-starts-new-elective-course-for-Std-XI-in-knowledge-traditions/articleshow/16493937.cms?intenttarget=no The CBSE's own documentation on these modules is as follows: Introduction of a new elective titled ?Knowledge Traditions and Practices of India" for classes XI-XII Complete Modules of Knowledge Traditions and Practices of India (An Elective Course Code no.: 073) for Class XI Module 1 : Astronomy in India | Module 2 : Chemistry in India | Module 3 : Indian Literatures Part 1 | Module 3 : Indian Literatures Part 2 | Module 4 : Indian Philosophical Systems | Module 5 : Indian Traditional Knowledge on Environmental Conservation | Module 6 : Life Sciences (1) Ayurveda for Life, Health and Well-being - Part 1 | Module 6 : Life Sciences (2) The Historical Evolution of Medical Tradition in Ancient India - Part 2 | Module 7 : Mathematics in India | Module 8 : Metallurgy in India | Module 9 : Music in India | Module 10 : Theatre and Drama in India Best, DW -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mkapstei at UCHICAGO.EDU Wed Oct 3 22:24:53 2012 From: mkapstei at UCHICAGO.EDU (Matthew Kapstein) Date: Wed, 03 Oct 12 22:24:53 +0000 Subject: Lecture Series of the Royal Institute of Philosophy Message-ID: <161227097518.23782.17475954448844457562.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Dear colleagues, The London Lecture Series of the Royal Institute of Philosophy in 2012-13 is devoted to "Philosophical Traditions" and includes several contributions that may be of interest to Indologists in the London area. The schedule is given here: http://www.royalinstitutephilosophy.org/page/36 with regards, Matthew Matthew Kapstein Directeur d'?tudes, Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes Numata Visiting Professor of Buddhist Studies, The University of Chicago ________________________________ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From wujastyk at GMAIL.COM Thu Oct 4 00:57:40 2012 From: wujastyk at GMAIL.COM (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Thu, 04 Oct 12 02:57:40 +0200 Subject: Indian school children offered courses in Knowledge Traditions and Practices of India Message-ID: <161227097526.23782.10846490970956114918.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Times of India, 21 Sept 2012: NAGPUR: After a successful pilot run, the Central Board of Secondary > Education (CBSE) has decided to introduce a new elective course for Std XI. > The course known as Knowledge Traditions and Practices of Indiawill be available to students from this academic session under the elective > course code no. 073. > > CBSE's circular says that the newly introduced course has "received an > overwhelming response from educationists and the teaching community all > over India". It aims to engage students with a sense of exploration and > discovery while highlighting the concepts and major achievements in various > disciplines of knowledge. > > This elective is keeping in line with the board's endeavour to develop the > curriculum in various subjects with a deep focus on values inherent in > Indian education system. This focus further takes shape in facilitating > knowledge of traditional practices through the course material developed > for students. > > The various modules of this course have already been put online and a > printed book version is currently under process. The board is also > preparing a Hindi version of the course. The board has written to > principals requesting them to include this elective in their scheme of > studies. There are a total of 10 modules being offered by CBSEin this course. Full newspaper text: - http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/home/education/news/CBSE-starts-new-elective-course-for-Std-XI-in-knowledge-traditions/articleshow/16493937.cms?intenttarget=no The CBSE's own documentation on these modules is as follows: - Introduction of a new elective titled ?Knowledge Traditions and Practices of India" for classes XI-XII - Complete Modules of Knowledge Traditions and Practices of India (An Elective Course Code no.: 073) for Class XI - Module 1 : Astronomy in India | - Module 2 : Chemistry in India | - Module 3 : Indian Literatures Part 1 | - Module 3 : Indian Literatures Part 2 | - Module 4 : Indian Philosophical Systems | - Module 5 : Indian Traditional Knowledge on Environmental Conservation | - Module 6 : Life Sciences (1) Ayurveda for Life, Health and Well-being - Part 1 | - Module 6 : Life Sciences (2) The Historical Evolution of Medical Tradition in Ancient India - Part 2 | - Module 7 : Mathematics in India | - Module 8 : Metallurgy in India | - Module 9 : Music in India | - Module 10 : Theatre and Drama in India Best, DW -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jean-luc.chevillard at UNIV-PARIS-DIDEROT.FR Thu Oct 4 13:28:37 2012 From: jean-luc.chevillard at UNIV-PARIS-DIDEROT.FR (Jean-Luc Chevillard) Date: Thu, 04 Oct 12 15:28:37 +0200 Subject: Indian school children offered courses in Knowledge Traditions and Practices of India In-Reply-To: <8CF6FE8750940BE-1234-842B1@webmail-d070.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <161227097536.23782.7806056229730724647.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Dear SP, why should you be disappointed? Which books in English can you recommend for an initiation of all Indian children to ancient Tamil music (which is an important branch of ancient Indian music)? I have recently acquired a book (??????? ???? [i??icai y??]) by ????????? ???????? (m?rkare? p?s?i?) which appeared in 2006 (see attached file) in which she comments on the path-breaking 1947 book ???? ???? ??????? ?????????? ???? [y?? n?l e??um icaittami? n?l] by ?????????? ?????? [vipul??anta cuv?mi], and it seems to be interesting, but until an English version appears, what to do? The books by Prof. P. Sambamurthy are not specific enough. And the 1979 book by S. Ramanathan (/Music in the Cilappatikaaram/) was not written for the general public. I don't suppose you would recommend the reading of books by Abraham Pandithar (who was a believer in Lemuria) ... If the instances which are capable of action in Tamil Nadu had concentrated their energy in preparing English translations of important Tamil books rather than fighting for a long time against Unicode (this is fortunately now a thing of the past), there might be more useable documents in wide circulation. -- Jean-Luc Chevillard (Paris) On 04/10/2012 03:41, Sudalaimuthu Palaniappan wrote: > Dominik, > > I just looked at Module 9: Music in India. I am utterly disappointed > with the contents. Seeing the picture of the statue of Ka??aki on the > cover, I thought the module would cover the history of music in the > Tamil country with a discussion of Cilappatik?ram along with N??ya??stra > . After all, there are two sets of names for the seven notes - in > Sanskrit and Tamil. There seems to be a deliberate attempt to present a > monochromatic Sanskrit-centered view of India instead of presenting the > real diversity of cultural elements in India. When they talk about > Bhakti music, the authors do not even acknowledge the existence of > T?v?ram hymns sung in ?aiva temples. Whether it is the Congress > government or BJP government, fundamentalism marches on. > > Since it looked like the cover was not specific to a module, I looked at > the literature modules. They only added to my dismay. Classical period > is said to begin from 1200 BC? Classical Tamil literature is not > represented. With the presence of people like Michael Danino, I guess I > should not expect anything better. > > Sadly, > Palaniappan > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Dominik Wujastyk > To: INDOLOGY > Sent: Wed, Oct 3, 2012 7:58 pm > Subject: [INDOLOGY] Indian school children offered courses in Knowledge > Traditions and Practices of India > > Times of India, 21 Sept 2012: > > NAGPUR: After a successful pilot run, the Central Board of Secondary > Education (CBSE) has decided to introduce a new elective course for > Std XI. The course known as Knowledge Traditions and Practices of > India > > will be available to students from this academic session under the > elective course code no. 073. > > CBSE's circular says that the newly introduced course has "received > an overwhelming response from educationists and the teaching > community all over India". It aims to engage students with a sense > of exploration and discovery while highlighting the concepts and > major achievements in various disciplines of knowledge. > > This elective is keeping in line with the board's endeavour to > develop the curriculum in various subjects with a deep focus on > values inherent in Indian education system. This focus further takes > shape in facilitating knowledge of traditional practices through the > course material developed for students. > > The various modules of this course have already been put online and > a printed book version is currently under process. The board is also > preparing a Hindi version of the course. The board has written to > principals requesting them to include this elective in their scheme > of studies. There are a total of 10 modules being offered by CBSE > in this course. > > > Full newspaper text: > > * http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/home/education/news/CBSE-starts-new-elective-course-for-Std-XI-in-knowledge-traditions/articleshow/16493937.cms?intenttarget=no > > The CBSE's own documentation on these modules is as follows: > > * Introduction of a new elective titled ?Knowledge Traditions and > Practices of India" for classes XI-XII > > * Complete Modules of Knowledge Traditions and Practices of India (An > Elective Course Code no.: 073) for Class XI > > > o Module 1 : Astronomy in India > > | > > o Module 2 : Chemistry in India > > | > o Module 3 : Indian Literatures Part 1 > > | > > o Module 3 : Indian Literatures Part 2 > > | > > o Module 4 : Indian Philosophical Systems > > | > > o Module 5 : Indian Traditional Knowledge on Environmental > Conservation > > | > > o Module 6 : Life Sciences (1) Ayurveda for Life, Health and > Well-being - Part 1 > > | > > o Module 6 : Life Sciences (2) The Historical Evolution of Medical > Tradition in Ancient India - Part 2 > > | > > o Module 7 : Mathematics in India > > | > o Module 8 : Metallurgy in India > > | > > o Module 9 : Music in India > > | > o Module 10 : Theatre and Drama in India > > > Best, > DW -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: MarkareT_pAsTin2_2006_title_page.pdf Type: application/pdf Size: 504720 bytes Desc: not available URL: From juergen.neuss at FU-BERLIN.DE Thu Oct 4 14:15:30 2012 From: juergen.neuss at FU-BERLIN.DE (=?utf-8?Q?J=C3=BCrgen_Neuss?=) Date: Thu, 04 Oct 12 16:15:30 +0200 Subject: Paramara inscription Message-ID: <161227097544.23782.16386675779406393246.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Dear friends and colleagues, I am struggeling with the reading of an unpublished Param?ra inscription which is found on a stone slab in the Amare?vara temple at M?ndh?t?, M.P. These slabs contain three Sanskrit stotras, of which two (the Mahimnastava and the Hal?yudhastotra) are well-known and published. At the top of the first slab bearing these stotras is another inscription engraved in large characters which has apparently never even been mentioned, although it is clearly visible on a rubbing which was published in CII VII/3. The inscription is in three short lines, two lines to the left, in larger characters, and another one in smaller characters to the right. Of the former I can read the first line without great difficulty as: "?r? amare?varadevasya d?na? | valla? Here this line ends, the text -so it seems- continues below the first line, which I find, but for a few ak?aras, hard to decipher. My problem is that, whenever I look at this line, I see something different and can?t yet make sense of the text. The third line on the right side, poses similar problems to me. I suppose that some of you are more trained in deciphering rock inscriptions than me and therefore humbly request you for help. It would be great to have a correct reading of these lines with your kind help and I will of course favourably refer to any contribution. You will find a scan of the respective part of the inscription here: http://userpage.fu-berlin.de/jneuss/inscription/pi.html Thanks for your interest and kind cooperation. Best regards, J?rgen Neuss -- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Dr. phil. J?rgen Neu? (Independent scholar) | email: juergen.neuss at fu-berlin.de Berlin, Germany | http: www.central-india.de ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ From palaniappa at AOL.COM Fri Oct 5 01:17:03 2012 From: palaniappa at AOL.COM (Sudalaimuthu Palaniappan) Date: Thu, 04 Oct 12 21:17:03 -0400 Subject: Fwd: [INDOLOGY] Indian school children offered courses in Knowledge Traditions and Practices of India In-Reply-To: <8CF70ADFC20F7B1-608-A701@webmail-d065.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <161227097548.23782.12676392072580987480.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Sorry, I meant to send this to the list. Regards, Palaniappan -----Original Message----- From: palaniappa To: jean-luc.chevillard Sent: Thu, Oct 4, 2012 8:15 pm Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] Indian school children offered courses in Knowledge Traditions and Practices of India Dear JLC, You can start with the following references. 1. Lewis Rowell, "Scale and Mode in the Music of the Early Tamils of South India," Music Theory Spectrum, Vol. 22, No. 2. (Autumn, 2000), pp. 135-156. 2. John Clough, Jack Douthett, N. Ramanathan, and Lewis Rowell, "Early Indian Heptatonic Scales and Recent Diatonic Theory," Music Theory Spectrum, Vol. 15, No. 1. (Spring, 1993), pp. 36-58. In [1], Rowell says the following. "The Cilappatik?ram is far from a technical treatise, but some of the passages on music contain extremely detailed information. The following account of the Tamil modal system is woven around five text passages (reproduced here as Texts 1-5 and amplified by information from the two commentaries (as discussed below). While the focus of the present article is upon interpretation and not textual matters per se, it will be useful to point out what we mean, in this case, by the "text." The Cilappatik?ram, like other major epics of the ancient world, existed as a flexible oral text long before it was edited and set down in the form in which we have received it. We do not know the age of the musical system whose details it records. The most that can be said is that the Tamil system apparently arose as an independent tradition, but subsequently came under the influence of the central Sanskritic musical tradition, with which it shared or came to share many common features." In [2] we find the following passage. "But the ancient Tamil musicaltradition, the music of the Dravi?a people who inhabited the southern tip ofthe subcontinent (including the modern states of Kerala and Tamil Nadu),presents solid evidence for a cyclical 12-note system as early as the secondcentury A.D. 15 In this system. 22 micro-tones (called, in Tamil, the rnaattirais) weredistributed among 12 chromatic degrees in more-or-less regular pattern, and arotating set of diatonic scales was then selected from this 12-note chromaticuniverse." 15 In these paragraphs, we draw uponthe information and interpretations presented in S. Ramanathan. Music in Cilappatik?ram (Madurai: Madurai Kamaraj University. 1979). We are also grateful toSister Margaret Bastin of the University of Madras for assistance with thedetails of the ancient Tamil musical system. Here is a bio of Prof. Rowell (http://www.indiana.edu/~deanfac/bios/2005/LRowell.pdf). ;If a Western scholar in US was able to consult Prof. N. Ramanathan , Retired Professor of Indian Music in the University of Madras, in Chennai and Sister Dr. Margaret Bastin, Principal of Kalai Kaviri College in Tiruchi and write these articles, I am sure the authors of the CBSE module could have consulted them if they had wanted. Regards, Palaniappan -----Original Message----- From: Jean-Luc Chevillard To: INDOLOGY Cc: rajam ; George Hart ; Palaniappa Sent: Thu, Oct 4, 2012 8:29 am Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] Indian school children offered courses in Knowledge Traditions and Practices of India Dear SP, why should you be disappointed? Which books in English can you recommend for an initiation of all Indian children to ancient Tamil music (which is an important branch of ancient Indian music)? I have recently acquired a book (??????? ???? [i??icai y??]) by ????????? ???????? (m?rkare? p?s?i?) which appeared in 2006 (see attached file) in which she comments on the path-breaking 1947 book ???? ???? ??????? ?????????? ???? [y?? n?l e??um icaittami? n?l] by ?????????? ?????? [vipul??anta cuv?mi], and it seems to be interesting, but until an English version appears, what to do? The books by Prof. P. Sambamurthy are not specific enough. And the 1979 book by S. Ramanathan (/Music in the Cilappatikaaram/) was not written for the general public. I don't suppose you would recommend the reading of books by Abraham Pandithar (who was a believer in Lemuria) ... If the instances which are capable of action in Tamil Nadu had concentrated their energy in preparing English translations of important Tamil books rather than fighting for a long time against Unicode (this is fortunately now a thing of the past), there might be more useable documents in wide circulation. -- Jean-Luc Chevillard (Paris) On 04/10/2012 03:41, Sudalaimuthu Palaniappan wrote: > Dominik, > > I just looked at Module 9: Music in India. I am utterly disappointed > with the contents. Seeing the picture of the statue of Ka??aki on the > cover, I thought the module would cover the history of music in the > Tamil country with a discussion of Cilappatik?ram along with N??ya??stra > . After all, there are two sets of names for the seven notes - in > Sanskrit and Tamil. There seems to be a deliberate attempt to present a > monochromatic Sanskrit-centered view of India instead of presenting the > real diversity of cultural elements in India. When they talk about > Bhakti music, the authors do not even acknowledge the existence of > T?v?ram hymns sung in ?aiva temples. Whether it is the Congress > government or BJP government, fundamentalism marches on. > > Since it looked like the cover was not specific to a module, I looked at > the literature modules. They only added to my dismay. Classical period > is said to begin from 1200 BC? Classical Tamil literature is not > represented. With the presence of people like Michael Danino, I guess I > should not expect anything better. > > Sadly, > Palaniappan > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Dominik Wujastyk > To: INDOLOGY > Sent: Wed, Oct 3, 2012 7:58 pm > Subject: [INDOLOGY] Indian school children offered courses in Knowledge > Traditions and Practices of India > > Times of India, 21 Sept 2012: > > NAGPUR: After a successful pilot run, the Central Board of Secondary > Education (CBSE) has decided to introduce a new elective course for > Std XI. The course known as Knowledge Traditions and Practices of > India > > will be available to students from this academic session under the > elective course code no. 073. > > CBSE's circular says that the newly introduced course has "received > an overwhelming response from educationists and the teaching > community all over India". It aims to engage students with a sense > of exploration and discovery while highlighting the concepts and > major achievements in various disciplines of knowledge. > > This elective is keeping in line with the board's endeavour to > develop the curriculum in various subjects with a deep focus on > values inherent in Indian education system. This focus further takes > shape in facilitating knowledge of traditional practices through the > course material developed for students. > > The various modules of this course have already been put online and > a printed book version is currently under process. The board is also > preparing a Hindi version of the course. The board has written to > principals requesting them to include this elective in their scheme > of studies. There are a total of 10 modules being offered by CBSE > in this course. > > > Full newspaper text: > > * http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/home/education/news/CBSE-starts-new-elective-course-for-Std-XI-in-knowledge-traditions/articleshow/16493937.cms?intenttarget=no > > The CBSE's own documentation on these modules is as follows: > > * Introduction of a new elective titled ?Knowledge Traditions and > Practices of India" for classes XI-XII > > * Complete Modules of Knowledge Traditions and Practices of India (An > Elective Course Code no.: 073) for Class XI > > > o Module 1 : Astronomy in India > > | > > o Module 2 : Chemistry in India > > | > o Module 3 : Indian Literatures Part 1 > > | > > o Module 3 : Indian Literatures Part 2 > > | > > o Module 4 : Indian Philosophical Systems > > | > > o Module 5 : Indian Traditional Knowledge on Environmental > Conservation > > | > > o Module 6 : Life Sciences (1) Ayurveda for Life, Health and > Well-being - Part 1 > > | > > o Module 6 : Life Sciences (2) The Historical Evolution of Medical > Tradition in Ancient India - Part 2 > > | > > o Module 7 : Mathematics in India > > | > o Module 8 : Metallurgy in India > > | > > o Module 9 : Music in India > > | > o Module 10 : Theatre and Drama in India > > > Best, > DW -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From palaniappa at AOL.COM Fri Oct 5 01:20:30 2012 From: palaniappa at AOL.COM (Sudalaimuthu Palaniappan) Date: Thu, 04 Oct 12 21:20:30 -0400 Subject: Fwd: [INDOLOGY] Indian school children offered courses in Knowledge Traditions and Practices of India In-Reply-To: <8CF70AE415611D1-608-A7BB@webmail-d065.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <161227097554.23782.8663429237934717510.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Sorry, there was an error in the link to Prof. Rowell's bio. Here is the correct link. http://www.indiana.edu/~deanfac/bios/2005/LRowell.pdf Regards, Palaniappan -----Original Message----- From: Sudalaimuthu Palaniappan To: INDOLOGY Sent: Thu, Oct 4, 2012 8:17 pm Subject: [INDOLOGY] Fwd: [INDOLOGY] Indian school children offered courses in Knowledge Traditions and Practices of India Sorry, I meant to send this to the list. Regards, Palaniappan -----Original Message----- From: palaniappa To: jean-luc.chevillard Sent: Thu, Oct 4, 2012 8:15 pm Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] Indian school children offered courses in Knowledge Traditions and Practices of India Dear JLC, You can start with the following references. 1. Lewis Rowell, "Scale and Mode in the Music of the Early Tamils of South India," Music Theory Spectrum, Vol. 22, No. 2. (Autumn, 2000), pp. 135-156. 2. John Clough, Jack Douthett, N. Ramanathan, and Lewis Rowell, "Early Indian Heptatonic Scales and Recent Diatonic Theory," Music Theory Spectrum, Vol. 15, No. 1. (Spring, 1993), pp. 36-58. In [1], Rowell says the following. "The Cilappatik?ram is far from a technical treatise, but some of the passages on music contain extremely detailed information. The following account of the Tamil modal system is woven around five text passages (reproduced here as Texts 1-5 and amplified by information from the two commentaries (as discussed below). While the focus of the present article is upon interpretation and not textual matters per se, it will be useful to point out what we mean, in this case, by the "text." The Cilappatik?ram, like other major epics of the ancient world, existed as a flexible oral text long before it was edited and set down in the form in which we have received it. We do not know the age of the musical system whose details it records. The most that can be said is that the Tamil system apparently arose as an independent tradition, but subsequently came under the influence of the central Sanskritic musical tradition, with which it shared or came to share many common features." In [2] we find the following passage. "But the ancient Tamil musicaltradition, the music of the Dravi?a people who inhabited the southern tip ofthe subcontinent (including the modern states of Kerala and Tamil Nadu),presents solid evidence for a cyclical 12-note system as early as the secondcentury A.D. 15 In this system. 22 micro-tones (called, in Tamil, the rnaattirais) weredistributed among 12 chromatic degrees in more-or-less regular pattern, and arotating set of diatonic scales was then selected from this 12-note chromaticuniverse." 15 In these paragraphs, we draw uponthe information and interpretations presented in S. Ramanathan. Music in Cilappatik?ram (Madurai: Madurai Kamaraj University. 1979). We are also grateful toSister Margaret Bastin of the University of Madras for assistance with thedetails of the ancient Tamil musical system. Here is a bio of Prof. Rowell (http://www.indiana.edu/~deanfac/bios/2005/LRowell.pdf). ;If a Western scholar in US was able to consult Prof. N. Ramanathan , Retired Professor of Indian Music in the University of Madras, in Chennai and Sister Dr. Margaret Bastin, Principal of Kalai Kaviri College in Tiruchi and write these articles, I am sure the authors of the CBSE module could have consulted them if they had wanted. Regards, Palaniappan -----Original Message----- From: Jean-Luc Chevillard To: INDOLOGY Cc: rajam ; George Hart ; Palaniappa Sent: Thu, Oct 4, 2012 8:29 am Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] Indian school children offered courses in Knowledge Traditions and Practices of India Dear SP, why should you be disappointed? Which books in English can you recommend for an initiation of all Indian children to ancient Tamil music (which is an important branch of ancient Indian music)? I have recently acquired a book (??????? ???? [i??icai y??]) by ????????? ???????? (m?rkare? p?s?i?) which appeared in 2006 (see attached file) in which she comments on the path-breaking 1947 book ???? ???? ??????? ?????????? ???? [y?? n?l e??um icaittami? n?l] by ?????????? ?????? [vipul??anta cuv?mi], and it seems to be interesting, but until an English version appears, what to do? The books by Prof. P. Sambamurthy are not specific enough. And the 1979 book by S. Ramanathan (/Music in the Cilappatikaaram/) was not written for the general public. I don't suppose you would recommend the reading of books by Abraham Pandithar (who was a believer in Lemuria) ... If the instances which are capable of action in Tamil Nadu had concentrated their energy in preparing English translations of important Tamil books rather than fighting for a long time against Unicode (this is fortunately now a thing of the past), there might be more useable documents in wide circulation. -- Jean-Luc Chevillard (Paris) On 04/10/2012 03:41, Sudalaimuthu Palaniappan wrote: > Dominik, > > I just looked at Module 9: Music in India. I am utterly disappointed > with the contents. Seeing the picture of the statue of Ka??aki on the > cover, I thought the module would cover the history of music in the > Tamil country with a discussion of Cilappatik?ram along with N??ya??stra > . After all, there are two sets of names for the seven notes - in > Sanskrit and Tamil. There seems to be a deliberate attempt to present a > monochromatic Sanskrit-centered view of India instead of presenting the > real diversity of cultural elements in India. When they talk about > Bhakti music, the authors do not even acknowledge the existence of > T?v?ram hymns sung in ?aiva temples. Whether it is the Congress > government or BJP government, fundamentalism marches on. > > Since it looked like the cover was not specific to a module, I looked at > the literature modules. They only added to my dismay. Classical period > is said to begin from 1200 BC? Classical Tamil literature is not > represented. With the presence of people like Michael Danino, I guess I > should not expect anything better. > > Sadly, > Palaniappan > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Dominik Wujastyk > To: INDOLOGY > Sent: Wed, Oct 3, 2012 7:58 pm > Subject: [INDOLOGY] Indian school children offered courses in Knowledge > Traditions and Practices of India > > Times of India, 21 Sept 2012: > > NAGPUR: After a successful pilot run, the Central Board of Secondary > Education (CBSE) has decided to introduce a new elective course for > Std XI. The course known as Knowledge Traditions and Practices of > India > > will be available to students from this academic session under the > elective course code no. 073. > > CBSE's circular says that the newly introduced course has "received > an overwhelming response from educationists and the teaching > community all over India". It aims to engage students with a sense > of exploration and discovery while highlighting the concepts and > major achievements in various disciplines of knowledge. > > This elective is keeping in line with the board's endeavour to > develop the curriculum in various subjects with a deep focus on > values inherent in Indian education system. This focus further takes > shape in facilitating knowledge of traditional practices through the > course material developed for students. > > The various modules of this course have already been put online and > a printed book version is currently under process. The board is also > preparing a Hindi version of the course. The board has written to > principals requesting them to include this elective in their scheme > of studies. There are a total of 10 modules being offered by CBSE > in this course. > > > Full newspaper text: > > * http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/home/education/news/CBSE-starts-new-elective-course-for-Std-XI-in-knowledge-traditions/articleshow/16493937.cms?intenttarget=no > > The CBSE's own documentation on these modules is as follows: > > * Introduction of a new elective titled ?Knowledge Traditions and > Practices of India" for classes XI-XII > > * Complete Modules of Knowledge Traditions and Practices of India (An > Elective Course Code no.: 073) for Class XI > > > o Module 1 : Astronomy in India > > | > > o Module 2 : Chemistry in India > > | > o Module 3 : Indian Literatures Part 1 > > | > > o Module 3 : Indian Literatures Part 2 > > | > > o Module 4 : Indian Philosophical Systems > > | > > o Module 5 : Indian Traditional Knowledge on Environmental > Conservation > > | > > o Module 6 : Life Sciences (1) Ayurveda for Life, Health and > Well-being - Part 1 > > | > > o Module 6 : Life Sciences (2) The Historical Evolution of Medical > Tradition in Ancient India - Part 2 > > | > > o Module 7 : Mathematics in India > > | > o Module 8 : Metallurgy in India > > | > > o Module 9 : Music in India > > | > o Module 10 : Theatre and Drama in India > > > Best, > DW -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jean-luc.chevillard at UNIV-PARIS-DIDEROT.FR Fri Oct 5 07:39:57 2012 From: jean-luc.chevillard at UNIV-PARIS-DIDEROT.FR (Jean-Luc Chevillard) Date: Fri, 05 Oct 12 09:39:57 +0200 Subject: Fwd: [INDOLOGY] Indian school children offered courses in Knowledge Traditions and Practices of India In-Reply-To: <8CF70AEBE76B931-608-A903@webmail-d065.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <161227097558.23782.6947790895561312004.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Dear SP, thanks for those links. You might want to read: INDIAN MUSIC AND THE ENGLISH LANGUAGE: A REVIEW ESSAY by Harold S. Powers Source: Ethnomusicology, Vol. 9, No. 1 (Jan., 1965), pp. 1-12 Published by: University of Illinois Press on behalf of Society for Ethnomusicology Stable URL: http://www.jstor.org/stable/850413 . On p.2, he writes: [...] In all indological fields the English language has made possible an exceptionally close and extensive cooperation between Indian and European scholars. But in most subjects the nature of the material is reasonably objective, and can be known to a greater or lesser extent by anyone, however different may be the approaches to its interpretation. Art works, language, social behavior, even religious belief, are subjects whose data are either directly accessible or indirectly accessible through language. Music, however, as well as dance, is a nonverbal art in a primarily temporal medium; it presents enormous difficulties of scholarly analysis and description even to those intimately acquainted with it as a living art. Thus, the development of the literature on Indian music in the English language is an especially valuable illustration of inter-cultural contact. [....] This and many other passages in his article could apply to the subject we are discussing, in which a critical mass of information universally accessible has not yet been reached. Best wishes -- JLC On 05/10/2012 03:20, Sudalaimuthu Palaniappan wrote: > Sorry, there was an error in the link to Prof. Rowell's bio. Here is the > correct link. > http://www.indiana.edu/~deanfac/bios/2005/LRowell.pdf > > Regards, > Palaniappan > > -----Original Message----- > From: Sudalaimuthu Palaniappan > To: INDOLOGY > Sent: Thu, Oct 4, 2012 8:17 pm > Subject: [INDOLOGY] Fwd: [INDOLOGY] Indian school children offered > courses in Knowledge Traditions and Practices of India > > Sorry, I meant to send this to the list. > > Regards, > Palaniappan > > > -----Original Message----- > From: palaniappa > > To: jean-luc.chevillard > > Sent: Thu, Oct 4, 2012 8:15 pm > Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] Indian school children offered courses in > Knowledge Traditions and Practices of India > > Dear JLC, > > You can start with the following references. > > 1. Lewis Rowell, "Scale and Mode in the Music of the Early Tamils of > South India," /Music Theory Spectrum/, Vol. 22, No. 2. (Autumn, 2000), > pp. 135-156. > > 2. John Clough, Jack Douthett, N. Ramanathan, and Lewis Rowell, "Early > Indian Heptatonic Scales and Recent Diatonic Theory," /Music Theory > Spectrum/, Vol. 15, No. 1. (Spring, 1993), pp. 36-58. > > In [1], Rowell says the following. > > "The /Cilappatik?ram/is far from a technical treatise, but some of the > passages on music contain extremely detailed information. The following > account of the Tamil modal system is woven around five text passages > (reproduced here as Texts 1-5 and amplified by information from the two > commentaries (as discussed below). While the focus of the present > article is upon interpretation and not textual matters per se, it will > be useful to point out what we mean, in this case, by the "text." The > /Cilappatik?ram//, /like other major epics of the ancient world, existed > as a flexible oral text long before it was edited and set down in the > form in which we have received it. We do not know the age of the musical > system whose details it records. The most that can be said is that the > Tamil system apparently arose as an independent tradition, but > subsequently came under the influence of the central Sanskritic musical > tradition, with which it shared or came to share many common features." > > In [2] we find the following passage. > "But the ancient Tamil musical tradition, the music of the Dravi?a > people who inhabited the southern tip of the subcontinent (including the > modern states of Kerala and Tamil Nadu), presents solid evidence for a > cyclical 12-note system as early as the second century A.D.* > ^15 > * > In**this system. 22 micro-tones (called, in Tamil, the /rnaattirais) > /were distributed among 12 chromatic degrees in more-or-less regular > pattern, and a rotating set of diatonic scales was then selected from > this 12-note chromatic universe." > > * > ^15 > *In these paragraphs, we draw upon the information and interpretations > presented in S. Ramanathan. /Music in/*//*/Cilappatik?ram /(Madurai: > Madurai Kamaraj University. 1979). We are also grateful to Sister > Margaret Bastin of the University of Madras for assistance with the > details of the ancient Tamil musical system. > > > Here is a bio of Prof. Rowell > (http://www.indiana.edu/~deanfac/bios/2005/LRowell.pdf). > ;If a Western > scholar in US was able to consult Prof. N. Ramanathan , Retired > Professor of Indian Music in the University of Madras, in Chennai and > Sister Dr. Margaret Bastin, Principal of Kalai Kaviri College in Tiruchi > and write these articles, I am sure the authors of the CBSE module could > have consulted them if they had wanted. > > Regards, > Palaniappan > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Jean-Luc Chevillard > > To: INDOLOGY > > Cc: rajam >; George > Hart >; Palaniappa > > > Sent: Thu, Oct 4, 2012 8:29 am > Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] Indian school children offered courses in > Knowledge Traditions and Practices of India > > Dear SP, > > why should you be disappointed? > > Which books in English can you recommend for an initiation of all Indian > children to ancient Tamil music (which is an important branch of ancient > Indian music)? > > I have recently acquired a book (??????? ???? [i??icai y??]) by ????????? > ???????? (m?rkare? p?s?i?) which appeared in 2006 (see attached file) in > which she comments on the path-breaking 1947 book ???? ???? ??????? ?????????? > ???? [y?? n?l e??um icaittami? n?l] by ?????????? ?????? [vipul??anta cuv?mi], > and it seems to be interesting, but until an English version appears, > what to do? > > The books by Prof. P. Sambamurthy are not specific enough. > > And the 1979 book by S. Ramanathan (/Music in the Cilappatikaaram/) was > not written for the general public. > > I don't suppose you would recommend the reading of books by Abraham > Pandithar (who was a believer in Lemuria) ... > > > If the instances which are capable of action in Tamil Nadu had > concentrated their energy in preparing English translations of important > Tamil books rather than fighting for a long time against Unicode (this > is fortunately now a thing of the past), there might be more useable > documents in wide circulation. > > > -- Jean-Luc Chevillard (Paris) > > > On 04/10/2012 03:41, Sudalaimuthu Palaniappan wrote: >> Dominik, >> >> I just looked at Module 9: Music in India. I am utterly disappointed >> with the contents. Seeing the picture of the statue of Ka??aki on the >> cover, I thought the module would cover the history of music in the >> Tamil country with a discussion of Cilappatik?ram along with N??ya??stra >> . After all, there are two sets of names for the seven notes - in >> Sanskrit and Tamil. There seems to be a deliberate attempt to present a >> monochromatic Sanskrit-centered view of India instead of presenting the >> real diversity of cultural elements in India. When they talk about >> Bhakti music, the authors do not even acknowledge the existence of >> T?v?ram hymns sung in ?aiva temples. Whether it is the Congress >> government or BJP government, fundamentalism marches on. >> >> Since it looked like the cover was not specific to a module, I looked at >> the literature modules. They only added to my dismay. Classical period >> is said to begin from 1200 BC? Classical Tamil literature is not >> represented. With the presence of people like Michael Danino, I guess I >> should not expect anything better. >> >> Sadly, >> Palaniappan >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Dominik Wujastyk > >> To: INDOLOGY > >> Sent: Wed, Oct 3, 2012 7:58 pm >> Subject: [INDOLOGY] Indian school children offered courses in Knowledge >> Traditions and Practices of India >> >> Times of India, 21 Sept 2012: >> >> NAGPUR: After a successful pilot run, the Central Board of Secondary >> Education (CBSE) has decided to introduce a new elective course for >> Std XI. The course known as Knowledge Traditions and Practices of >> India >> >> will be available to students from this academic session under the >> elective course code no. 073. >> >> CBSE's circular says that the newly introduced course has "received >> an overwhelming response from educationists and the teaching >> community all over India". It aims to engage students with a sense >> of exploration and discovery while highlighting the concepts and >> major achievements in various disciplines of knowledge. >> >> This elective is keeping in line with the board's endeavour to >> develop the curriculum in various subjects with a deep focus on >> values inherent in Indian education system. This focus further takes >> shape in facilitating knowledge of traditional practices through the >> course material developed for students. >> >> The various modules of this course have already been put online and >> a printed book version is currently under process. The board is also >> preparing a Hindi version of the course. The board has written to >> principals requesting them to include this elective in their scheme >> of studies. There are a total of 10 modules being offered by CBSE >> in this course. >> >> >> Full newspaper text: >> >> *http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/home/education/news/CBSE-starts-new-elective-course-for-Std-XI-in-knowledge-traditions/articleshow/16493937.cms?intenttarget=no >> >> The CBSE's own documentation on these modules is as follows: >> >> * Introduction of a new elective titled ?Knowledge Traditions and >> Practices of India" for classes XI-XII >> >> * Complete Modules of Knowledge Traditions and Practices of India (An >> Elective Course Code no.: 073) for Class XI >> >> >> o Module 1 : Astronomy in India >> >> | >> >> o Module 2 : Chemistry in India >> >> | >> o Module 3 : Indian Literatures Part 1 >> >> | >> >> o Module 3 : Indian Literatures Part 2 >> >> | >> >> o Module 4 : Indian Philosophical Systems >> >> | >> >> o Module 5 : Indian Traditional Knowledge on Environmental >> Conservation >> >> | >> >> o Module 6 : Life Sciences (1) Ayurveda for Life, Health and >> Well-being - Part 1 >> >> | >> >> o Module 6 : Life Sciences (2) The Historical Evolution of Medical >> Tradition in Ancient India - Part 2 >> >> | >> >> o Module 7 : Mathematics in India >> >> | >> o Module 8 : Metallurgy in India >> >> | >> >> o Module 9 : Music in India >> >> | >> o Module 10 : Theatre and Drama in India >> >> >> Best, >> DW > From suresh.kolichala at GMAIL.COM Sun Oct 7 10:00:45 2012 From: suresh.kolichala at GMAIL.COM (Suresh Kolichala) Date: Sun, 07 Oct 12 06:00:45 -0400 Subject: Narmada and Narbada Message-ID: <161227097560.23782.7225396069834909629.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Does anyone know the phonological reasons for the alternation of the river name 'Narmada' as 'Narbada'? I also see this river name sometimes being spelled as Narbedda. It is surprising to see a labial nasal winding up as an oral stop. Is there any historical evidence to believe in a transformation of narmada > narvada > narbada? /m/ > /v/ is very common in Dravidian, and /v/ > /b/ is common in the New Indo-Aryan (NIA) languages of East and Central India. I appreciate any responses. Regards, Suresh. Atlanta, GA. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From h.arganisjuarez at YAHOO.COM.MX Sun Oct 7 15:11:36 2012 From: h.arganisjuarez at YAHOO.COM.MX (Horacio Francisco Arganis Juarez) Date: Sun, 07 Oct 12 08:11:36 -0700 Subject: New academical work In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227097570.23782.5157237949704439282.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> ?News: Tamal Krishna Goswami?s PHD Thesis. with?Dr. Julius Lipner of Cambridge University, Goswami?s dissertation advisor,??Unveiled in Dallas: A Living Theology in Krishna's Bhakti.?http://www.chakra.org/news2/newsJul18_12.htmlIts back cover of the book contains several endorsements. Francis X. Clooney, SJ, of Harvard University comments???we learn a great deal about the Vaishnava theological tradition.? Rachel Fell McDermott of Barnard College says Goswami delights in ?highlighting Prabhupada?s brilliant Vaishnava theologizing.? And Barbara A. Holdrege, of the University of California in Santa Barbara, says, ?Through this work Goswami, as a master mediator between religious and academic worlds, helps open the Hindu studies guild to new voices and alternative discourses and challenges us in the academy to provide hermeneutical and institutional space for the contributions of scholar-practitioners.? After reading the Book of Goswami et alt, allow me to express my professional opinion: Definitely is a very valuable book, to contextualize the theological pardigm of his Master Prabhupada. However, that I would be subjetive to said this doesn't contain any shortcomings.? As a deterministic factor, in not only the wisdom of Sri Chaitanya Mahaprabhu's school, but from all over India or vedic tradition, is the divine historicity of Sri Krishna, who was a real historical character and paralelly Godhead encarnate like a human. However Goswami, underestimated this fundamental aspect of Hindu doctrine, to take out Krishna from so called wenster academical "mythology" and upload Him to the conceptual hiperuranius of theology. Dr. Horacio Francisco Arganis -J. Lic. M.A. Ph. D. Catedr?tico Investigador de la Universidad Internacional Euroamericana. Departamento de Filosof?a y Religi?n Comparada. www.uie.edu.es -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From suresh.kolichala at GMAIL.COM Sun Oct 7 13:53:29 2012 From: suresh.kolichala at GMAIL.COM (Suresh Kolichala) Date: Sun, 07 Oct 12 09:53:29 -0400 Subject: Narmada and Narbada In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227097565.23782.3556631498613118692.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Dear J?rgenji, Thanks for your response. *Narbada *(??????) and *Narvada *(??????) have been used as proper names in Central and North India for long. Come to think of it, the transformation of /m/ > /v/ (actually, /w/) is not only common in Dravidian, it is found in Middle Indo-Aryan as well. For example, intervocalic /m/ getting weakened to a nasalized /?/ can be seen in: OIA *gr?ma*, 'village' > Pali/Pkt *g?ma *> Ap. *g??a*. So, now I feel more confident about the derivation of *narbada *from * narmada *as: **narmada *> *narvada *> *narbada*. Does anyone have an etymologies for the hydronym *Narmada*? What about the derivations for the other name of this river: *Rewa*? Regards, Suresh. On Sun, Oct 7, 2012 at 7:25 AM, J?rgen Neuss wrote: > Dear Sureshji, > > Interesting question. I am aware of the use of the 'b' only in colonial, > british sources ('Nerbudda/Narbada'). All the original texts (Sanskrit, > Hindi, Marathi, Gujarati) I have seen in the course of my research on the > Narmadaparikrama uniformly have the 'm'. In case you find the 'b' in any > (South) Indian source, please let me know. > > J?rgen > > > > > On Sun, 07 Oct 2012 12:00:45 +0200, Suresh Kolichala < > suresh.kolichala at gmail.com> wrote: > > Does anyone know the phonological reasons for the alternation of the river >> name 'Narmada' as 'Narbada'? I also see this river name sometimes being >> spelled as Narbedda. >> >> It is surprising to see a labial nasal winding up as an oral stop. Is >> there >> any historical evidence to believe in a transformation of narmada > >> narvada >> >>> narbada? /m/ > /v/ is very common in Dravidian, and /v/ > /b/ is common >>> >> in the New Indo-Aryan (NIA) languages of East and Central India. >> >> I appreciate any responses. >> >> Regards, >> Suresh. >> Atlanta, GA. >> > > > -- > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~**~~~~~~~~~ > Dr. phil. J?rgen Neu? > (Independent scholar) | email: juergen.neuss at fu-berlin.de > Berlin, Germany | http: www.central-india.de > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~**~~~~~~~~~ > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From juergen.neuss at FU-BERLIN.DE Sun Oct 7 11:25:18 2012 From: juergen.neuss at FU-BERLIN.DE (=?utf-8?Q?J=C3=BCrgen_Neuss?=) Date: Sun, 07 Oct 12 13:25:18 +0200 Subject: Narmada and Narbada In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227097563.23782.1389933422235808100.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Dear Sureshji, Interesting question. I am aware of the use of the 'b' only in colonial, british sources ('Nerbudda/Narbada'). All the original texts (Sanskrit, Hindi, Marathi, Gujarati) I have seen in the course of my research on the Narmadaparikrama uniformly have the 'm'. In case you find the 'b' in any (South) Indian source, please let me know. J?rgen On Sun, 07 Oct 2012 12:00:45 +0200, Suresh Kolichala wrote: > Does anyone know the phonological reasons for the alternation of the > river > name 'Narmada' as 'Narbada'? I also see this river name sometimes being > spelled as Narbedda. > > It is surprising to see a labial nasal winding up as an oral stop. Is > there > any historical evidence to believe in a transformation of narmada > > narvada >> narbada? /m/ > /v/ is very common in Dravidian, and /v/ > /b/ is common > in the New Indo-Aryan (NIA) languages of East and Central India. > > I appreciate any responses. > > Regards, > Suresh. > Atlanta, GA. -- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Dr. phil. J?rgen Neu? (Independent scholar) | email: juergen.neuss at fu-berlin.de Berlin, Germany | http: www.central-india.de ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ From hhhock at ILLINOIS.EDU Sun Oct 7 15:44:59 2012 From: hhhock at ILLINOIS.EDU (Hock, Hans Henrich) Date: Sun, 07 Oct 12 15:44:59 +0000 Subject: Narmada and Narbada In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227097577.23782.10202697975817344804.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> For what is may be worth (I'm sure there is a text-message abbreviation for this): The variant forms that I'm aware of are Narbada and Nerbudda (the latter probably just a British rendition of the former). As for the change of m to v (actually, ?), what's involved is more complexed -- a lenition of m (which, as the Sanskrit phoneticians already realized, is a voiced labial *stop* with nasal coarticulation) yields in the first place a nasalized voiced labial fricative or approximant (something whose correct phonetic representation may not survive crossing the ether, computer systems, or platforms). This, in turn tends to "lose" its nasalization to a neighboring vowel, as in Hindi ????, which in yet a further turn will be denasalized in Modern Marathi. This means that in principle one could go from m to v/?, but it would be a rather tortuous route. What creates problems is that this lenition of m only takes place intervocalically, not in clusters. So, the only way one could get lenition to apply here is by assuming that the earlier name was something like Naramada. This could, of course, be nicely etymologized in Sanskrit -- but is it attested anywhere in Sanskrit? A further problem is that the change v/? > b normally is limited to initial position. A way around that would be to assume something like this scenario naramada > nara??/?ada > nar??/?ada (with syncope of the second vowel) > nar?/vada > narbada, with change of v/? to b after consonant (I'm not sure there are examples for this from Indian languages, but the change is found elsewhere). However, if you run the word through this "Prakritic" changes, you need to worry about the d of narmada -- why did this not undergo lenition, too, winding up as ?, hence unattested narm?*. A less convoluted account would consider the b of Narbada/Nerbudda to be the result of nasal dissimilation in the sequence n ? m. A change of this type is found in asmin > Pkt. a(p)phe etc., with sm ? n > sp ? n (v. Hin?ber ?lteres Mittelindoarisch). Cheers, Hans Henrich Hock On 7 Oct 2012, at 08:53, Suresh Kolichala wrote: Dear J?rgenji, Thanks for your response. Narbada (??????) and Narvada (??????) have been used as proper names in Central and North India for long. Come to think of it, the transformation of /m/ > /v/ (actually, /w/) is not only common in Dravidian, it is found in Middle Indo-Aryan as well. For example, intervocalic /m/ getting weakened to a nasalized /?/ can be seen in: OIA gr?ma, 'village' > Pali/Pkt g?ma > Ap. g??a. So, now I feel more confident about the derivation of narbada from narmada as: *narmada > narvada > narbada. Does anyone have an etymologies for the hydronym Narmada? What about the derivations for the other name of this river: Rewa? Regards, Suresh. On Sun, Oct 7, 2012 at 7:25 AM, J?rgen Neuss > wrote: Dear Sureshji, Interesting question. I am aware of the use of the 'b' only in colonial, british sources ('Nerbudda/Narbada'). All the original texts (Sanskrit, Hindi, Marathi, Gujarati) I have seen in the course of my research on the Narmadaparikrama uniformly have the 'm'. In case you find the 'b' in any (South) Indian source, please let me know. J?rgen On Sun, 07 Oct 2012 12:00:45 +0200, Suresh Kolichala > wrote: Does anyone know the phonological reasons for the alternation of the river name 'Narmada' as 'Narbada'? I also see this river name sometimes being spelled as Narbedda. It is surprising to see a labial nasal winding up as an oral stop. Is there any historical evidence to believe in a transformation of narmada > narvada narbada? /m/ > /v/ is very common in Dravidian, and /v/ > /b/ is common in the New Indo-Aryan (NIA) languages of East and Central India. I appreciate any responses. Regards, Suresh. Atlanta, GA. -- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Dr. phil. J?rgen Neu? (Independent scholar) | email: juergen.neuss at fu-berlin.de Berlin, Germany | http: www.central-india.de ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mkapstei at UCHICAGO.EDU Sun Oct 7 15:51:41 2012 From: mkapstei at UCHICAGO.EDU (Matthew Kapstein) Date: Sun, 07 Oct 12 15:51:41 +0000 Subject: Chennai/Pondicherry query Message-ID: <161227097580.23782.14418253708276571333.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Dear colleagues, I would be grateful if any of you with recent, practical knowledge of living and travel in and around Chennai and Pondicherry, might be willing to respond to some questions about this. If so, please contact me off-list. with thanks in advance, Matthew Matthew Kapstein Directeur d'?tudes, Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes Numata Visiting Professor of Buddhist Studies, The University of Chicago ________________________________ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From wujastyk at GMAIL.COM Sun Oct 7 14:19:33 2012 From: wujastyk at GMAIL.COM (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Sun, 07 Oct 12 16:19:33 +0200 Subject: Romney and Obama debate the importance of Indian Music Message-ID: <161227097568.23782.8785458383098532491.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> - http://youtu.be/iVhc0L8hVbs enjoy! Dominik -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From heike.moser at UNI-TUEBINGEN.DE Sun Oct 7 15:31:38 2012 From: heike.moser at UNI-TUEBINGEN.DE (Heike Moser) Date: Sun, 07 Oct 12 17:31:38 +0200 Subject: FW: [Ygg] Tenure-Track Position "Religions in Asia" in Rosalind Franklin Fellowship Programme, University of Groningen In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227097573.23782.17021322356259977269.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> > >> Von: Kocku von Stuckrad >> Datum: 5. Oktober 2012 17:17:08 MESZ >> An: Yggdrasill at lists.Uni-Marburg.DE, Dolmen at lists.Uni-Marburg.DE >> Betreff: [Ygg] Tenure-Track Position "Religions in Asia" in Rosalind Franklin >> Fellowship Programme, University of Groningen >> Antwort an: Kocku von Stuckrad >> >> >> >> Rosalind Franklin Fellowships at the University of Groningen >> >> To promote the advancement of talented international researchers at the >> highest levels of the institution, the University of Groningen has initiated >> the prestigious Rosalind Franklin Fellowship programme. The ambitious >> programme has been running since 2007 and financed thus far over sixty >> fellowships. >> >> The Rosalind Franklin Fellowship programme is primarily directed at women in >> academia or research institutes who have a PhD and aim for a career towards >> full professorship in a European top research university. This fellowship is >> an opportunity for talented junior scholars to advance their skills in >> professional academic work, including supervision of doctoral research and >> collaboration with leading institutes on an international scale. The position >> is only awarded to outstanding researchers. >> >> Successful candidates will be expected to establish an independent, >> externally funded research programme in collaboration with colleagues at the >> University of Groningen and elsewhere. They will also be expected to >> participate in and contribute to the development of the teaching programme of >> the Faculty of Theology and Religious Studies. >> >> >> Tenure-Track Position for "Religions in Asia" >> >> The Faculty of Theology and Religious Studies is looking for ambitious >> candidates for a ?Religions in Asia? RFF tenure-track position. The >> specialization is open, and candidates with expertise in Hinduism, Buddhism, >> Daoism, Confucianism, or Shintoism are encouraged to apply. >> >> The RFF will be integrated into the Department of Comparative and Historical >> Study of Religion, which means that the scholar hired for this position will >> collaborate with colleagues utilizing historical, sociological, >> anthropological, and psychological approaches in the field of comparative >> religion. The RFF will play an important role in the comparative study of >> religion that the department (and the faculty in general) promotes and >> preferably has a strong background in theoretical aspects of the study of >> religion. Themes such as Orientalism/Occidentalism, post-colonialism, >> globalization, and the links between religion and cultural processes in >> ?entangled histories? are important dimensions of this position. Candidates >> should have a specialization in one religious tradition, including its >> language and history. >> >> Regardless of the specialization, the RFF will be asked to give introductory >> classes to Hinduism and Buddhism and to offer classes that address >> contemporary issues of religions in Asia. >> >> >> For more information, please see >> http://www.rug.nl/ggw/vacatures/RosalindFranklin/index >> >> >> Please forward this information to potential candidates. If you have any >> question pertaining to this position, please do not hesitate to contact me. >> >> >> Thank you for your consideration. >> >> >> Kind regards, >> >> >> Kocku von Stuckrad >> -- >> >> Prof. Dr. Kocku von Stuckrad >> University of Groningen >> Department of Comparative and Historical Study of Religion >> Oude Boteringestraat 38 >> 9712 GK Groningen >> The Netherlands >> Phone (office): +31-50-363-5579 >> Phone (home): +31-50-3642517 >> Fax: +31-50-363-6200 >> Cell Phone: +31-6-28898997 >> E-Mail: c.k.m.von.stuckrad at rug.nl >> Homepage: http://www.vonstuckrad.com >> Homepage Faculty: http://www.rug.nl/ggw >> LinkedIn: http://nl.linkedin.com/in/kocku >> Twitter: http://twitter.com/KvStuckrad >> > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From suresh.kolichala at GMAIL.COM Mon Oct 8 09:42:53 2012 From: suresh.kolichala at GMAIL.COM (Suresh Kolichala) Date: Mon, 08 Oct 12 05:42:53 -0400 Subject: Narmada and Narbada In-Reply-To: <24813ACCC4FD7E4BA49C84D3751BCCDE4B9BFBB5@CHIMBX1.ad.uillinois.edu> Message-ID: <161227097589.23782.17234567631893549378.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Thanks a lot, Hock, for your detailed reply. I think the following derivation makes much sense: *naramada* -[lenition of labial nasal as nasalized oral stop]-> nara??ada -[syncope of second vowel]-> nar??ada > narbada. In many NIA languages, /v/ in clusters does become /b/. For example, *parvat *'mountain' > *parbat, **pabb?** *in many eastern and central languages*.* In fact, in the eastern Indo-Aryan languages (such as Bengali, Oriya etc.), even the intervocalic /v/ is merged with /b/ ~ [?]. For instance, *viv**?ha > bib**?h; bhuvane?war > **bhubane?war *etc. On the etymology of *Narmada/?*, we have the following theories so far: 1. The traditional etymology according to the Sanskrit sources is: Giver( *d**?*) of Pleasure (*Narma*). 2. Witzel (1999) adduces to Pinnow who had pointed out many river names, from the *Ga??ak? *to the *Narma-d?* to be containing the Munda element -*da?, *-da?k 'water' (Pinnow 1959: 69). 3. It is also possible to ascribe a Dravidian derivation as there are a few river names and place names in South India with a suffix of -ma*?u(gu) *and *madu(ku) (*See [*DEDR 4658] *and* [DEDR 4688 ])* Since the influence of Indo-Aryan on the languages of the Narmada valley appears to be much later (Kuiper 1966), I believe, we need to study the corpuses (corpora) of Nahali, Munda (Kurku) and the Dravidian languages to trace a possible origin for this hydronym. Regards, Suresh. On Sun, Oct 7, 2012 at 11:44 AM, Hock, Hans Henrich wrote: > For what is may be worth (I'm sure there is a text-message abbreviation > for this): > > The variant forms that I'm aware of are Narbada and Nerbudda (the latter > probably just a British rendition of the former). As for the change of *m* to > *v *(actually, *?*), what's involved is more complexed -- a lenition of *m > * (which, as the Sanskrit phoneticians already realized, is a voiced > labial *stop* with nasal coarticulation) yields in the first place a > nasalized voiced labial fricative or approximant (something whose correct > phonetic representation may not survive crossing the ether, computer > systems, or platforms). This, in turn tends to "lose" its nasalization to a > neighboring vowel, as in Hindi ????, which in yet a further turn will be > denasalized in Modern Marathi. This means that in principle one could go > from *m* to *v/**?*, but it would be a rather tortuous route. What > creates problems is that this lenition of *m* only takes place > intervocalically, not in clusters. So, the only way one could get lenition > to apply here is by assuming that the earlier name was something like * > Naramada*. This could, of course, be nicely etymologized in Sanskrit -- > but is it attested anywhere in Sanskrit? A further problem is that the > change *v/**? > b* normally is limited to initial position. A way around > that would be to assume something like this scenario *naramada > nara?**?/?ada > > nar**?**?/?ada* (with syncope of the second vowel) > *nar**?/vada > > narbada, *with change of *v/**?* to *b* after consonant (I'm not sure > there are examples for this from Indian languages, but the change is found > elsewhere). However, if you run the word through this "Prakritic" changes, > you need to worry about the *d* of *narmada* -- why did this not undergo > lenition, too, winding up as *?*, hence unattested *narm?**. > > A less convoluted account would consider the *b* of *Narbada/Nerbudda* to > be the result of nasal dissimilation in the sequence *n ? m*. A change of > this type is found in *asmin > *Pkt. *a(p)phe* etc., with *sm ? n > sp ? n > * (v. Hin?ber ?lteres Mittelindoarisch). > > Cheers, > > Hans Henrich Hock > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From wujastyk at GMAIL.COM Mon Oct 8 08:44:13 2012 From: wujastyk at GMAIL.COM (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Mon, 08 Oct 12 10:44:13 +0200 Subject: INDOLOGY.info website temporarily down Message-ID: <161227097586.23782.4580136831868135972.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Sorry, everyone, the INDOLOGY.info website is down. I don't know why, and I'm sorting it out now. Best, Dominik Wujastyk -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From nivi71r at YAHOO.CO.IN Mon Oct 8 04:55:11 2012 From: nivi71r at YAHOO.CO.IN (Nivedita Rout) Date: Mon, 08 Oct 12 12:55:11 +0800 Subject: svara as breathing/respiration Message-ID: <161227097582.23782.2385704209717078267.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Respected Scholars, I?am looking for the earliest textual?references?of?"svara" used in term of "breathing" apart from Yogic texts. I find close evidences i.e ?"praa.na is svara" in Upanisads.Still I look for it?in particular in?tantra literature.? Thank you all in advance for your help and suggestions! Regards, -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From suresh.kolichala at GMAIL.COM Mon Oct 8 17:15:21 2012 From: suresh.kolichala at GMAIL.COM (Suresh Kolichala) Date: Mon, 08 Oct 12 13:15:21 -0400 Subject: Narmada and Narbada In-Reply-To: <24813ACCC4FD7E4BA49C84D3751BCCDE4B9C0D8B@CHIMBX1.ad.uillinois.edu> Message-ID: <161227097608.23782.1720515561731334009.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> I agree. There is indeed a river a named Mad? (25.204N 73.439E) in Rajasthan near S?da??/?? (??????). Does anyone on this list have more details about this river? -- Thanks, Suresh. On Mon, Oct 8, 2012 at 11:52 AM, Hock, Hans Henrich wrote: > The major problem, of course, is that the Sanskrit form that we have is > narmad?, not naramad?. So, to get the suggested derivation one would have > do assume something like a folk etymology, either of original naramad? > (syncopated?) as narmad? 'bestowing pleasure' or of original narmad? (with > svarabhakti?) as naramad? 'pleasure of men' (there is supposed to be a > river name mad?). > > Cheers, > > HHH > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From gruenen at SUB.UNI-GOETTINGEN.DE Mon Oct 8 14:01:14 2012 From: gruenen at SUB.UNI-GOETTINGEN.DE (Gruenendahl, Reinhold) Date: Mon, 08 Oct 12 14:01:14 +0000 Subject: GRETIL update #404 Message-ID: <161227097597.23782.17604033864479077693.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> GRETIL is pleased to be able to report the following addition(s) to its collection: Abhinavagupta: Paramarthasara, with Yogaraja's commentary: http://gretil.sub.uni-goettingen.de/gretil.htm#AbhParCYog __________________________________________________________________________ "GRETIL is intended as a cumulative register of the numerous download sites for electronic texts in Indian languages." (from the 2001 "mission statement") GRETIL - Goettingen Register of Electronic Texts in Indian Languages: http://gretil.sub.uni-goettingen.de/gretil.htm From wujastyk at GMAIL.COM Mon Oct 8 12:18:28 2012 From: wujastyk at GMAIL.COM (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Mon, 08 Oct 12 14:18:28 +0200 Subject: indology.info is back Message-ID: <161227097592.23782.7557813405460799891.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> The indology.info website is up and running again. Apologies for the unanticipated interruption to service. Best, Dominik Wujastyk -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From asko.parpola at HELSINKI.FI Mon Oct 8 12:45:15 2012 From: asko.parpola at HELSINKI.FI (Asko Parpola) Date: Mon, 08 Oct 12 15:45:15 +0300 Subject: svara as breathing/respiration In-Reply-To: <1349672111.24028.YahooMailNeo@web193103.mail.sg3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <161227097595.23782.17931650215412788582.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> The phrases pr??a? svara? and pr??o vai svara? occur many times already in the S?mavedic Br?hma?as, cf. respectively Pa?cavi??a-Br?hma?a 7,1,10; 17,12,2; Jaimin?ya-Br?hma?a 1,301 & 307, and PB 24,11,9; JB 1,123.140.164.215; 2,168; 3,194.229. However, in these phrases svara means 'tone' rather than breathing, see W. Caland's translation and comments on those text places. With best regards and wishes, Asko Parpola Quoting "Nivedita Rout" : > Respected Scholars, > > I?am looking for the earliest textual?references?of?"svara" used in > term of "breathing" apart from Yogic texts. > I find close evidences i.e ?"praa.na is svara" in Upanisads.Still I > look for it?in particular in?tantra literature.? > > Thank you all in advance for your help and suggestions! > Regards, From hhhock at ILLINOIS.EDU Mon Oct 8 15:52:06 2012 From: hhhock at ILLINOIS.EDU (Hock, Hans Henrich) Date: Mon, 08 Oct 12 15:52:06 +0000 Subject: Narmada and Narbada In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227097605.23782.6220268406262245432.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> The major problem, of course, is that the Sanskrit form that we have is narmad?, not naramad?. So, to get the suggested derivation one would have do assume something like a folk etymology, either of original naramad? (syncopated?) as narmad? 'bestowing pleasure' or of original narmad? (with svarabhakti?) as naramad? 'pleasure of men' (there is supposed to be a river name mad?). Cheers, HHH On 8 Oct 2012, at 04:42, Suresh Kolichala wrote: Thanks a lot, Hock, for your detailed reply. I think the following derivation makes much sense: naramada -[lenition of labial nasal as nasalized oral stop]-> nara??ada -[syncope of second vowel]-> nar??ada > narbada. In many NIA languages, /v/ in clusters does become /b/. For example, parvat 'mountain' > parbat, pabb? in many eastern and central languages. In fact, in the eastern Indo-Aryan languages (such as Bengali, Oriya etc.), even the intervocalic /v/ is merged with /b/ ~ [?]. For instance, viv?ha > bib?h; bhuvane?war > bhubane?war etc. On the etymology of Narmada/?, we have the following theories so far: 1. The traditional etymology according to the Sanskrit sources is: Giver(d?) of Pleasure (Narma). 2. Witzel (1999) adduces to Pinnow who had pointed out many river names, from the Ga??ak? to the Narma-d? to be containing the Munda element -*da?, *-da?k 'water' (Pinnow 1959: 69). 3. It is also possible to ascribe a Dravidian derivation as there are a few river names and place names in South India with a suffix of -ma?u(gu) and madu(ku) (See [DEDR 4658] and [DEDR 4688]) Since the influence of Indo-Aryan on the languages of the Narmada valley appears to be much later (Kuiper 1966), I believe, we need to study the corpuses (corpora) of Nahali, Munda (Kurku) and the Dravidian languages to trace a possible origin for this hydronym. Regards, Suresh. On Sun, Oct 7, 2012 at 11:44 AM, Hock, Hans Henrich > wrote: For what is may be worth (I'm sure there is a text-message abbreviation for this): The variant forms that I'm aware of are Narbada and Nerbudda (the latter probably just a British rendition of the former). As for the change of m to v (actually, ?), what's involved is more complexed -- a lenition of m (which, as the Sanskrit phoneticians already realized, is a voiced labial *stop* with nasal coarticulation) yields in the first place a nasalized voiced labial fricative or approximant (something whose correct phonetic representation may not survive crossing the ether, computer systems, or platforms). This, in turn tends to "lose" its nasalization to a neighboring vowel, as in Hindi ????, which in yet a further turn will be denasalized in Modern Marathi. This means that in principle one could go from m to v/?, but it would be a rather tortuous route. What creates problems is that this lenition of m only takes place intervocalically, not in clusters. So, the only way one could get lenition to apply here is by assuming that the earlier name was something like Naramada. This could, of course, be nicely etymologized in Sanskrit -- but is it attested anywhere in Sanskrit? A further problem is that the change v/? > b normally is limited to initial position. A way around that would be to assume something like this scenario naramada > nara??/?ada > nar??/?ada (with syncope of the second vowel) > nar?/vada > narbada, with change of v/? to b after consonant (I'm not sure there are examples for this from Indian languages, but the change is found elsewhere). However, if you run the word through this "Prakritic" changes, you need to worry about the d of narmada -- why did this not undergo lenition, too, winding up as ?, hence unattested narm?*. A less convoluted account would consider the b of Narbada/Nerbudda to be the result of nasal dissimilation in the sequence n ? m. A change of this type is found in asmin > Pkt. a(p)phe etc., with sm ? n > sp ? n (v. Hin?ber ?lteres Mittelindoarisch). Cheers, Hans Henrich Hock -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dbhattacharya200498 at YAHOO.COM Mon Oct 8 15:21:18 2012 From: dbhattacharya200498 at YAHOO.COM (Dipak Bhattacharya) Date: Mon, 08 Oct 12 23:21:18 +0800 Subject: svara as breathing/respiration In-Reply-To: <1349672111.24028.YahooMailNeo@web193103.mail.sg3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <161227097599.23782.17442665612447100622.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> In the description of the generation of sound, P??in?ya?ik?? vss 6cd and 7ab state: ?The mind hits the bodily fire, that sends the (bodily) wind (=breath), the breath roaming in the breast generates a charming svara.? The place of the wind ie breast seems to indicate that life-breath that is Pr??a is meant. Not itself svara it is held responsible for its generation. Best DB ________________________________ From: Nivedita Rout To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Sent: Monday, 8 October 2012 10:25 AM Subject: [INDOLOGY] svara as breathing/respiration Respected Scholars, ? I?am looking for the earliest textual?references?of?"svara" used in term of "breathing" apart from Yogic texts. I find close evidences i.e ?"praa.na is svara" in Upanisads.Still I look for it?in particular in?tantra literature.? ? Thank you all in advance for your help and suggestions! Regards, -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dbhattacharya200498 at YAHOO.COM Mon Oct 8 15:23:45 2012 From: dbhattacharya200498 at YAHOO.COM (Dipak Bhattacharya) Date: Mon, 08 Oct 12 23:23:45 +0800 Subject: Fw: [INDOLOGY] svara as breathing/respiration In-Reply-To: <1349709678.7947.YahooMailNeo@web193503.mail.sg3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <161227097602.23782.16036349085300370598.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> ----- Forwarded Message ----- From: Dipak Bhattacharya To: Nivedita Rout ; "INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk" Sent: Monday, 8 October 2012 8:51 PM Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] svara as breathing/respiration In the description of the generation of sound, P??in?ya?ik?? vss 6cd and 7ab state: ?The mind hits the bodily fire, that sends the (bodily) wind (=breath), the breath roaming in the breast generates a charming svara.? The place of the wind ie breast seems to indicate that life-breath that is Pr??a is meant. Not itself svara it is held responsible for its generation. Best DB ________________________________ From: Nivedita Rout To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Sent: Monday, 8 October 2012 10:25 AM Subject: [INDOLOGY] svara as breathing/respiration Respected Scholars, ? I?am looking for the earliest textual?references?of?"svara" used in term of "breathing" apart from Yogic texts. I find close evidences i.e ?"praa.na is svara" in Upanisads.Still I look for it?in particular in?tantra literature.? ? Thank you all in advance for your help and suggestions! Regards, -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From palaniappa at AOL.COM Tue Oct 9 03:24:33 2012 From: palaniappa at AOL.COM (Sudalaimuthu Palaniappan) Date: Mon, 08 Oct 12 23:24:33 -0400 Subject: Visit to Edakkal In-Reply-To: <8CF5EAD019C90B4-B10-4BA94@webmail-d061.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <161227097615.23782.3538376429477208997.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Dear Scholars, As you know there have been different views expressed regarding the so-called Edakkal-5 inscription. http://www.thehindu.com/arts/history-and-culture/article2872568.ece http://www.thehindu.com/arts/history-and-culture/article3501408.ece http://www.thehindu.com/todays-paper/tp-national/the-earliest-inscription-in-malayalam/article3503010.ece The latest Avanam issue carried some additional opinions. I am giving below the pictures published in the Hindu, i.e., (1) the estampage of Dr. Raghava Varier, (2) the computer-enhanced picture from CICT and (3) the reconstruction used by Mr. Iravatham Mahadevan. 1. http://sarii.org/EdakkalRVestampage.jpg 2. http://sarii.org/EdakkalCICT.jpg 3. http://sarii.org/EdakkalMahadevan.jpg On August 24, 2012, I visited the Edakkal cave, saw the inscription in person, and took several pictures with my limited photographic ability. I hope these pictures help in furthering the scholarly inquiry. Picture 4 shows the immediate context of the so-called inscription. (4) http://sarii.org/EdakkalKHV.JPG Here you will notice that the English letters KHV with green patina. They are obviously older than the brown patina of some of the scratchings which have contaminated the characters of the 'inscription'. Also please note the goggle-like marking is touching the so-called 'ma'/'mi' character at the top right. Also there is a curved line connecting the base of the 'ma'/'mi' character Picture 5 is the raw picture taken by me of the inscription. (5) http://sarii.org/EdakkalSP.JPG Picture 6 is the same as Picture 5 enhanced in my iMac iPhoto. (6) http://sarii.org/EdakkalSPEnhanced.JPG One can see that the estampage (1) and the reconstruction (3) have been affected by modern scratchings. For example, while the estampage seems to be right in having a complete loop in the leftmost character, the horizontal extensions to the left seem to be due to the modern scratchings. The discontinuity in the loop in the reconstruction (3) seems to be again due to the modern scratching. Also the middle vertical line of so-called ? does not curve to the right as in (3). Rather the loop seems to be entirely to the left of the vertical line. If you look at Picture 4 the vertical line of ? seems to continue/touch a line that curves to the right. Here is Picture (7) that shows a well-defined unmistakable inscription 'ka?ummiputa c?ra'. (7) http://sarii.org/EdakkalSPBrahmi.jpg I am completely open with respect to what these markings may/may not mean. However, In my humble opinion, we need more careful work with better equipment in order to first establish the shapes of the markings in question that all scholars can agree on. After that one can decide if they are letters or not and what those letters are. By the way, there is a cave in Hermitage Resort in the same mountain. See Picture 8. (8) http://sarii.org/EdakkalHermitageResortCave.JPG According to the resort staff, about half of the sediment in the cave has been cleared by the private owners to set up a dining area. But there seems to be a lot of sediment that can be excavated by arachaeologists. If the caves higher up in the mountain had been visited by pre-historic and historic people to carve the figurines and inscribe letters, the cave in the Hermitage Resort may also have some ancient artifacts. That may be worth excavating. Regards, Palaniappan -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From nivi71r at YAHOO.CO.IN Tue Oct 9 03:17:13 2012 From: nivi71r at YAHOO.CO.IN (Nivedita Rout) Date: Tue, 09 Oct 12 11:17:13 +0800 Subject: Fw: [INDOLOGY] svara as breathing/respiration In-Reply-To: <1349709825.69939.YahooMailNeo@web193501.mail.sg3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <161227097611.23782.1738295738656638802.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Thank you Sir very much for your valuable information. We?find in?Yogic texts, Svara is used in term of praa.na. ? As you would know, there is a text available?known as?"svarodaya". I wonder why it is?called svarodaya"saastra, why not?praa.nodaya. ? As per avaialble materials we find in its colophon: iti umaamahe"svarasa.mbaade svarodayaj~naana.m sa.mpuur.nam. After?I closely went?through available aagamas and puraa.nas I?could not?find its source text. I would be grateful for?further?information and help on this subject. ? ? Once again thanks to all of you for your valuable informations. ? with Best Regards,? ________________________________ From: Dipak Bhattacharya To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Sent: Monday, 8 October 2012 8:53 PM Subject: [INDOLOGY] Fw: [INDOLOGY] svara as breathing/respiration ----- Forwarded Message ----- From: Dipak Bhattacharya To: Nivedita Rout ; "INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk" Sent: Monday, 8 October 2012 8:51 PM Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] svara as breathing/respiration In the description of the generation of sound, P??in?ya?ik?? vss 6cd and 7ab state: ?The mind hits the bodily fire, that sends the (bodily) wind (=breath), the breath roaming in the breast generates a charming svara.? The place of the wind ie breast seems to indicate that life-breath that is Pr??a is meant. Not itself svara it is held responsible for its generation. Best DB ________________________________ From: Nivedita Rout To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Sent: Monday, 8 October 2012 10:25 AM Subject: [INDOLOGY] svara as breathing/respiration Respected Scholars, I?am looking for the earliest textual?references?of?"svara" used in term of "breathing" apart from Yogic texts. I find close evidences i.e ?"praa.na is svara" in Upanisads.Still I look for it?in particular in?tantra literature.? Thank you all in advance for your help and suggestions! Regards, -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rospatt at BERKELEY.EDU Wed Oct 10 02:40:09 2012 From: rospatt at BERKELEY.EDU (Alexander von Rospatt) Date: Tue, 09 Oct 12 19:40:09 -0700 Subject: Search for Assistant Professor of Modern Hindi Literature and Cultures at UC Berkeley Message-ID: <161227097621.23782.11743698220972587707.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Dear Colleagues, Please take note of the below announcement for an Assistant Professor of Modern Hindi Literature and Cultures. The announcement is also posted on the Departmental Website: http://sseas.berkeley.edu/news/job-announcement-assistant-professor-modern-hindi-literature-and-cultures-university-california Applications close on 17 December 2012. Kind regards, Alexander von Rospatt ---------------- Alexander von Rospatt, Professor Department of South and Southeast Asian Studies Director of the Group in Buddhist Studies University of California 7233 Dwinelle Hall # 2540 Berkeley, CA 94720-2540 Assistant Professor of Modern Hindi Literature and Cultures The Department of South and Southeast Asian Studies, University of California, Berkeley, seeks to appoint an Assistant Professor of Modern Hindi Literature and Cultures (tenuretrack). PhD by 31 December, 2012, is required. July 1, 2013, start date. The department will consider applications from scholars working in any discipline, genre or period, but is especially interested in expanding its research and teaching activities in the modern era (19th century to the present). Candidates are expected to have advanced literacy in Hindi, the capacity to work with original texts, and a record of publications that deals centrally with Hindi literature. Duties include teaching and developing graduate and undergraduate courses, co-ordination of Hindi language instruction, and supervision of graduate degree candidates. The successful candidate will have demonstrated the potential for intellectual innovation and exceptional promise in research and teaching. Applications must include a statement of research plans and teaching interests, a CV (~ 3 pages), up to three significant writing samples (~ 30 pages each), and sample syllabi. Applicants must arrange for direct submission of three signed letters of recommendation. All letters will be treated as confidential per University of California policy and California state law. Please refer potential referees, including when letters are provided via a third party (i.e., dossier service or career center), to the UC Berkeley statement of confidentiality: http://apo.chance.berkeley.edu/evalltr.html. To apply, please go to the following link: http://aprecruit.berkeley.edu/apply/JPF00085. Applications must be received by December 17, 2012. Applications may also be sent by mail to Chair, Hindi Search Committee, Department of South and Southeast Asian Studies, 7233 Dwinelle #2540, University of California, Berkeley, CA 94720-2540, USA. The department particularly welcomes applications from candidates with a record that illustrates their commitment to supporting Berkeley?s plan for equity and inclusion [http://diversity.berkeley.edu/StrategicPlan], and who express what their contributions would be. The University of California, Berkeley is an Equal Opportunity/Affirmative Action Employer and is committed to addressing the family needs of faculty, including dual career couples and single parents (see http://calcierge.berkeley.edu/ for details). -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From GHooper at CCH.COM.AU Tue Oct 9 09:34:05 2012 From: GHooper at CCH.COM.AU (Giles Hooper) Date: Tue, 09 Oct 12 20:34:05 +1100 Subject: 1960 article by Louis Dumont Message-ID: <161227097618.23782.8929523783806875017.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Dear List members If anyone has a copy, I would really appreciate it if they could send me a PDF of Louis Dumont's 1960 journal article entitled "World renunciation in Indian religions" in Contributions to Indian Sociology Vol 4 pp. 33-62. In hope, Giles Hooper Honours student (Sanskrit) University of Sydney From wc3 at SOAS.AC.UK Wed Oct 10 15:01:45 2012 From: wc3 at SOAS.AC.UK (Whitney Cox) Date: Wed, 10 Oct 12 10:01:45 -0500 Subject: Fwd: AHRC Invitation: PhD Students and Early Career Researchers - Funded Overseas Research Placements In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227097630.23782.264997378178890882.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Given the locations involved (among them Delhi and Tokyo), this may be of some interest to UK-based members of the list. ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: AHRC ips Date: 10 October 2012 06:28 Subject: AHRC Invitation: PhD Students and Early Career Researchers - Funded Overseas Research Placements To: AHRC ips * * *[image: CMYK LScape]* * * *AHRC International Placement Scheme Showcase Events* ** ** The Arts and Humanities Research Council (AHRC) is holding three events to showcase the opportunities available to AHRC/ESRC*-funded PhD students and Early Career Researchers through our International Placement Scheme (IPS).** ** * * The annual IPS scheme provides funded research fellowships for* *AHRC/ESRC*-funded PhD students and Early Career Researchers at one of four international partner institutions:**** **? **The Library of Congress *, Washington DC, USA**** **? **The Huntington Library , California, USA**** **? **National Institutes for the Humanities , Japan**** **? **Sarai Research Programme , Delhi, India*** * ** ** The showcase will include presentations from returning IPS award holders;*** * AHRC staff will advise on eligibility for the scheme and give application guidance;**** All speakers, as well as IPS alumni, will be available at the networking lunch to discuss the scheme.**** ** ** The events are primarily aimed at AHRC/ESRC*-funded PhD students, doctoral-level research assistants and early career researchers.**** BGP Coordinators, Heads of School/Department, Research Managers, PhD Supervisors and AHRC-funded Principal Investigators with project students/RA?s would also be welcome.**** ** ** *Please RSVP to *https://www.surveymonkey.com/s/IPS-Showcase *no later than 2 weeks before your preferred date:***** *Friday 2nd November 2012 ?University of Leeds, 11.00 ? 14.00* *Thursday 15th November 2012 ? University of Birmingham, 11.00 ? 14.00* *Friday 16th November 2012 ? University of Westminster, 11.00 ? 14.00* Places will be allocated on a first-come-first-served basis. Exact location details and agendas will be emailed to delegates nearer the time of the event.**** ** ** IPS applications for 2013/14 will be open from approximately early November 2012 until early January 2013. Placements can be taken up from 1st July 2013.**** ** ** For information on the scheme please see the IPS webpages. Please direct enquiries to ips at ahrc.ac.uk. To follow the AHRC on twitter see @ahrcpress. For tweets about the event see #AHRCIPS.**** ** ** **ESRC-funded PhD students and Early Career Researchers may apply to the Library of Congress only. * * * * * If this email carries a protective marking it means the information contained within it is sensitive and confidential. Please do not disclose this information to individuals who do not have a legitimate right of access to it. Please delete this email when it is no longer needed, and securely dispose of any printed copies you have made. Please contact the AHRC's Information Services Manager if you have any queries. Email: enquiries at ahrc.ac.uk**Telephone: (01793 41 6000). -- Dr. Whitney Cox Senior Lecturer in Sanskrit Department of the Languages and Cultures of South Asia, SOAS, University of London Thornhaugh Street, Russell Square London WC1H 0XG -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image002.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 5810 bytes Desc: not available URL: From gthomgt at GMAIL.COM Wed Oct 10 16:36:22 2012 From: gthomgt at GMAIL.COM (George Thompson) Date: Wed, 10 Oct 12 12:36:22 -0400 Subject: Frits Staal Memorial volume Message-ID: <161227097634.23782.13528008566126143609.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Dear List, We are actively working on a memorial volume dedicated to Frits Staal, and many have already committed to contributing articles on his work and his life. We encourage others to do so as well. We encourage all Indologists who have known Frits or who have been influenced by him to contribute to this volume, whether or not you are Vedicicts. We want to accomplish two things in this project: 1. to celebrate his enormous contributions to early Vedic Studies, and 2. to give a rudimentary biography of this prolific Vedic scholar. However, contributions are not confined to Vedic Studies. Frits' interest in India was wide and deep. All Indologists should feel free and welcome to contribute their thoughts and memories, as we witnessed earlier this year when news of Frits' passing first circulated among us some six months ago. If you have any questions, please post them to me, editor of this volume, or Richard Payne, who has generously offered to publish this publication: his email address is: rkpayne1 at mac.com George Thompson gthomgt at gmail.com [with apologies for cross-posting. From suresh.kolichala at GMAIL.COM Wed Oct 10 16:42:51 2012 From: suresh.kolichala at GMAIL.COM (Suresh Kolichala) Date: Wed, 10 Oct 12 12:42:51 -0400 Subject: Visit to Edakkal In-Reply-To: <8CF73E4BC441C16-F68-1E17D@webmail-m101.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <161227097636.23782.15145398286610118045.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> On Mon, Oct 8, 2012 at 11:24 PM, Sudalaimuthu Palaniappan < palaniappa at aol.com> wrote: > > I am completely open with respect to what these markings may/may not mean. > However, In my humble opinion, we need more careful work with better > equipment in order to first establish the shapes of the markings in > question that all scholars can agree on. After that one can decide if they > are letters or not and what those letters are. > Very interesting analysis, Palaniappan. This inscription has assumed significance as some readings claim that the language represented early-Malayalam, and thus proving the antiquity of Malayalam. It would be interesting to know the opinions of the distinguished epigraphists on this list about your analysis. I would also like to know what the scholars on this list think about the Tamil-Brahmi inscriptions of Adichanallur and Porunthal which some believe belong to the 6th century BCE and 5th century BCE respectively. Regards, Suresh. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From raphael.voix at GMAIL.COM Wed Oct 10 12:20:47 2012 From: raphael.voix at GMAIL.COM (Raphael Voix) Date: Wed, 10 Oct 12 14:20:47 +0200 Subject: Ancient visual representations of South Asia from an indian point of view Message-ID: <161227097624.23782.2522995436747579219.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Dear All, For our research center's conference on "South Asia" category, we are looking for some ancient visual representations of South Asia from an indian point of view. If anyone could help, we would be most grateful. All the best, Rapha?l. Rapha?l Voix Centre d'Etude de l'Inde et de l'Asie du Sud (CNRS/EHESS) 190-198 av. de France, 75013 Paris Portable : + 33 6 28 35 51 86 Bureau : + 33 1 49 54 83 88 Dom. : + 33 1 40 38 39 93 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From kauzeya at GMAIL.COM Wed Oct 10 12:59:24 2012 From: kauzeya at GMAIL.COM (Jonathan Silk) Date: Wed, 10 Oct 12 14:59:24 +0200 Subject: Fully-funded positions for 2 PhD candidates in Buddhist Studies Message-ID: <161227097626.23782.6289256559957716739.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> dear Colleagues, May I take this opportunity to remind you that review of applications for the following two positions will begin, and renew also my request that you make known these chances to as many potentially interested students as possible? Thank you, jonathan silk ******************************* *PhD Position in Buddhist Studies* *Vacancy number: 12-213* The Leiden University Institute for Area Studies (LIAS) invites applications for two fulltime PhD positions in the field of Buddhist Studies, specialization open, to begin 1 January 2013, or thereafter. ** Since its foundation in 1575, Leiden University has built an internationally recognised record of excellence in teaching and research. Currently, the University has around 17,000 students and 4,000 staff from around the world. The Faculty of Humanities consists of the Institutes for Area Studies, Creative & Performing Arts, Cultural Disciplines, History, Linguistics, Philosophy, and Religious Studies. The Graduate School has an annual output of about 50 PhDs. The Leiden University Institute for Area Studies (http://www.hum.leiden.edu/lias/), which comprises the Schools of Asian Studies and Middle Eastern Studies, is committed to the integration of disciplinary and regional-historical perspectives, and has as its aim the advancement of teaching and research of Area Studies at Leiden University and in the wider academic community. Area specializations in Asian Studies include Chinese, Japanese, Korean, South- & Southeast Asian, and Tibetan Studies. *Position description* We seek PhD candidates with excellent qualifications in any area within Buddhist Studies. *Expectations for PhD candidates:* - ? The writing of a PhD dissertation; - ? Participation in local research meetings and PhD courses; - ? Presenting papers at international conferences; - ? Publishing research results in the form of (an) article(s); - ? Teaching (typically in the second and third years of the appointment) in relevant programs, both in Buddhist Studies broadly and in the candidate's area of specialization . *Requirements* - ? A (Research) MA degree in Buddhist Studies or in a related field with a strong Buddhist Studies component; exceptionally qualified students with a BA are also encouraged to apply; - ? Knowledge of the relevant language(s); - ? Excellent skills in English. *Conditions of employment* The appointment as a PhD student will be for a period of four years (initially for a period of one year with an extension of three years after positive evaluation of progress and skills development) leading to the successful completion of a PhD thesis. The appointment will be under the terms of the CAO (Collective Labour Agreement) of Dutch Universities. The gross monthly salary is set on ? 2042 in the first year, increasing to ? 2612 gross per month in the final year. An appointment at the University of Leiden entitles participation in a pension scheme and other benefits such as an annual holiday premium of 8 % and an end-of-year bonus of 8.3 %. Candidates from outside the Netherlands may be eligible for a substantial tax break. *Application* PhD candidates please send your application (in English), including: ? A cover letter stating your motivation for this position, and proposed project; ? A CV; ? Copies of your academic transcripts; ? An English writing sample; ? The names and contact addresses of two academic referees (ideally one of these should be from your (MA) thesis supervisor). Review of applications will commence by 15 October 2012 and continue until the position is filled or this call is closed. For more information about the position please contact Prof. dr. J.A Silk, tel. +31-71-527-2510, email *j.a.silk at hum.leidenuniv.nl*. Please note that * applications* should not be sent directly to Prof. Silk. Please *send your application* electronically, indicating the vacancy number to: vacatureslias at hum.leidenuniv.nl . All application materials should preferably be submitted in *a single PDF document* called ?Family Name-Given Name-12-213.? A telephone (or Skype) interview may be part of the selection procedure. -- J. Silk Instituut Kern / Universiteit Leiden Leiden University Institute for Area Studies, LIAS Johan Huizinga Building, Room 1.37 Doelensteeg 16 2311 VL Leiden The Netherlands -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From kauzeya at GMAIL.COM Thu Oct 11 19:13:51 2012 From: kauzeya at GMAIL.COM (Jonathan Silk) Date: Thu, 11 Oct 12 21:13:51 +0200 Subject: Stenzler or? Message-ID: <161227097639.23782.2152257424312063219.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> dear Colleagues, I have a colleague who is a classicist, whom I may be convincing it would be great to study Sanskrit. I'm not sure what would be the best book to use for someone who is entirely at home in Greek (and Latin) but doesn't know an Indic language. I thought of Stenzler, but then, which edition? Or is there a better choice? It may be disloyal given where I teach, but I consider Gonda to be impossible as anything other than a list of forms... thanks so much in advance for the advice, jonathan -- J. Silk Instituut Kern / Universiteit Leiden Leiden University Institute for Area Studies, LIAS Johan Huizinga Building, Room 1.37 Doelensteeg 16 2311 VL Leiden The Netherlands -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From kauzeya at GMAIL.COM Thu Oct 11 19:44:24 2012 From: kauzeya at GMAIL.COM (Jonathan Silk) Date: Thu, 11 Oct 12 21:44:24 +0200 Subject: Stenzler or? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227097642.23782.6327755865927580921.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Perhaps I should have mentioned that as an educated European, it would not matter to my colleague whether the book is in German, French, or Italian (though Russian might be a bridge too far--I did not check about this!) On Thu, Oct 11, 2012 at 9:13 PM, Jonathan Silk wrote: > > dear Colleagues, > > I have a colleague who is a classicist, whom I may be convincing it would > be great to study Sanskrit. I'm not sure what would be the best book to use > for someone who is entirely at home in Greek (and Latin) but doesn't know > an Indic language. I thought of Stenzler, but then, which edition? Or is > there a better choice? It may be disloyal given where I teach, but I > consider Gonda to be impossible as anything other than a list of forms... > > thanks so much in advance for the advice, jonathan > -- > J. Silk > Instituut Kern / Universiteit Leiden > Leiden University Institute for Area Studies, LIAS > Johan Huizinga Building, Room 1.37 > Doelensteeg 16 > 2311 VL Leiden > The Netherlands > > -- J. Silk Instituut Kern / Universiteit Leiden Leiden University Institute for Area Studies, LIAS Johan Huizinga Building, Room 1.37 Doelensteeg 16 2311 VL Leiden The Netherlands -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mkapstei at UCHICAGO.EDU Thu Oct 11 21:45:22 2012 From: mkapstei at UCHICAGO.EDU (Matthew Kapstein) Date: Thu, 11 Oct 12 21:45:22 +0000 Subject: Stenzler or? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227097645.23782.582793773096412062.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> For one at home in Greek and Latin, I'd recommend Bergaigne Matthew Kapstein Directeur d'?tudes, Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes Numata Visiting Professor of Buddhist Studies, The University of Chicago ________________________________ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From palaniappa at AOL.COM Fri Oct 12 03:40:41 2012 From: palaniappa at AOL.COM (Sudalaimuthu Palaniappan) Date: Thu, 11 Oct 12 23:40:41 -0400 Subject: Visit to Edakkal In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227097648.23782.2956079211024925090.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Suresh, I assume you are referring to the 'inscription' mentioned in the following news report. http://www.hindu.com/2005/02/17/stories/2005021704471300.htm An epigraphist in Tamil Nadu told me that there was no inscription inside. If I remember right, it was some stain - not an inscription - which was lost when the item was washed. Regards, Palaniappan -----Original Message----- From: Suresh Kolichala To: INDOLOGY Sent: Thu, Oct 11, 2012 5:31 pm Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] Visit to Edakkal On Mon, Oct 8, 2012 at 11:24 PM, Sudalaimuthu Palaniappan wrote: I am completely open with respect to what these markings may/may not mean. However, In my humble opinion, we need more careful work with better equipment in order to first establish the shapes of the markings in question that all scholars can agree on. After that one can decide if they are letters or not and what those letters are. Very interesting analysis, Palaniappan. This inscription has assumed significance as some readings claim that the language represented early-Malayalam, and thus proving the antiquity of Malayalam. It would be interesting to know the opinions of the distinguished epigraphists on this list about your analysis. I would also like to know what the scholars on this list think about the Tamil-Brahmi inscriptions of Adichanallur and Porunthal which some believe belong to the 6th century BCE and 5th century BCE respectively. Regards, Suresh. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From palaniappa at AOL.COM Fri Oct 12 04:07:12 2012 From: palaniappa at AOL.COM (Sudalaimuthu Palaniappan) Date: Fri, 12 Oct 12 00:07:12 -0400 Subject: Etymology and History of Kutiyattam In-Reply-To: <506E8ECD.3000604@univ-paris-diderot.fr> Message-ID: <161227097650.23782.994883062066714694.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Dear Scholars, There is a CBSE document (http://heritage.cbseacademic.in/blog/index.php/performing-arts/ ) on the Web dated September 2, 2012 which says the following: "The word Kutiyattam is derived from the word ?Kuti? which in Malayalam language primarily means ?combined? or ?together? while ?attam? means acting. Therefore, the word ?Kuttiyatam? means combined acting." The above document was a product of the CBSE Research & Development Unit. But 'Module 10 - Theatre and Drama in India' of the 'Knowledge Traditions & Practices of India' textbook edited by Kapil Kapoor and Michel Danino and probably uploaded on or after September 14, 2012 says the following on page 7. ((http://www.cbseacademic.in/web_material/Circulars/2012/68_KTPI/Module_10.pdf ) "Kut?iyat?t?am (or ku?t?hiyat?t?am) is derived from the Sanskrit word ku?rd, meaning to ?to play?. Kut?iyat?t?am, the only surviving specimen of the ancient Sanskrit theatre, remains a popular theatre form in Kerala. In May 2001, kut?iyat?t?am earned a rare honour when UNESCO declared it a masterpiece of human heritage to be protected and preserved. It is believed that Kulasekhara Varma Cheraman Perumal, an ancient King of Kerala, was the creator of kut?iyat?t?am in its present form. His book A?t?t?aprakaran?a is considered as the most authoritative work on the art form till date." Can anyone provide any references for this Sanskritic etymology for Kutiyattam? Also can anyone provide more details regarding this king, Kulasekhara Varma Cheraman Perumal? Thanks in advance. Regards, Palaniappan -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From suresh.kolichala at GMAIL.COM Fri Oct 12 10:19:50 2012 From: suresh.kolichala at GMAIL.COM (Suresh Kolichala) Date: Fri, 12 Oct 12 06:19:50 -0400 Subject: Etymology and History of Kutiyattam In-Reply-To: <8CF764630A1541E-1670-35801@webmail-m015.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <161227097657.23782.8569027069428986976.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> On Fri, Oct 12, 2012 at 12:07 AM, Sudalaimuthu Palaniappan < palaniappa at aol.com> wrote: > Dear Scholars, > > There is a CBSE document (http://heritage.cbseacademic.in/blog/index.php/performing-arts/ ) on the Web dated September 2, 2012 which says the following: > > *"*The word Kutiyattam is derived from the word ?Kuti? which in Malayalam language primarily means ?combined? or ?together? while ?attam? means acting. Therefore, the word ?Kuttiyatam? means combined acting.*"* > > The above document was a product of the CBSE Research & Development Unit.* * > > But 'Module 10 - Theatre and Drama in India' of the 'Knowledge Traditions & Practices of India' textbook edited by Kapil Kapoor and Michel Danino and probably uploaded on or after September 14, 2012 says the following on page 7. ((http://www.cbseacademic.in/web_material/Circulars/2012/68_KTPI/Module_10.pdf ) > > Although the document was uploaded on September 14, 2012, it is very likely that the content was prepared much earlier. I believe the website version is meant to be a later correction. > "Kut?iyat?t?am (or ku?t?hiyat?t?am) is derived from the Sanskrit word > ku?rd, meaning to ?to play?. Kut?iyat?t?am, the only surviving specimen > of the ancient Sanskrit theatre, remains a popular theatre form in > Kerala. In May 2001, kut?iyat?t?am earned a rare honour when UNESCO > declared it a masterpiece of human heritage to be protected and > preserved. It is believed that Kulasekhara Varma Cheraman Perumal, an > ancient King of Kerala, was the creator of kut?iyat?t?am in its present > form. His book A?t?t?aprakaran?a is considered as the most authoritative > work on the art form till date." > This entire paragraph appears to be a straight lift from one of these sites. It is also possible that the Wikipedia entry for Kutiyattam had this exact paragraph sometime in the past. http://www.culturopedia.com/Theatre/koothiyattam.html http://www.newworldencyclopedia.org/entry/Koodiyattam http://www.scribd.com/doc/84386127/Indian-Theatre It is interesting that even the Sanskrit word *ku?rd *is possibly a borrowing from Dravidian (Burrow *Dravidian Studies VII* 1948:375, CDIAL 3411,3412, See DEDR 1705 ). Regards, Suresh. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From christophe.vielle at UCLOUVAIN.BE Fri Oct 12 08:31:45 2012 From: christophe.vielle at UCLOUVAIN.BE (Christophe Vielle) Date: Fri, 12 Oct 12 10:31:45 +0200 Subject: Stenzler or? In-Reply-To: <82C3E42590D939418C74DD76B97DDED074CCE4@xm-mbx-04-prod.ad.uchicago.edu> Message-ID: <161227097653.23782.4020169590453606777.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> For the French-speaking students, there is, just issued (I discover it today), the Grammaire sanskrite ? l'usage des ?tudiants hell?nistes et latinistes by my Colleague Francine Mawet ; see: http://www.peeters-leuven.be/boekoverz.asp?nr=9023 where in her self-presentation she refers to the Sanskrit Grammar by M. Mayrhofer (1972) (? translation of his German Sanskrit-Grammatik mit sprachvergleichenden Erl?uterungen, 1964) It is to be noted that the Grammaire ?l?mentaire et pratique du sanskrit classique, avec exercices corrig?s et textes expliqu?s issued in 2010, by the "Classicist" (and Indologist) Sylvain Brocquet See: http://www.safran.be/proddetail.php?prod=LCA16 is an excellent manual (with audio-examples available) for self-teaching. With best wishes, Christophe Vielle Louvain-la-Neuve Editor, Publications de l'Institut Orientaliste de Louvain series - Last Indological issues: PIOL nos 53, 60 - Still available: Mah?praj??p?ramit???stra (vols 1-2-3-4-5), Asa?ga's Mah?y?nasa?graha, Vimalak?rtinirde?a, Lamotte's History of Indian Buddhism, etc. Le 11 oct. 2012 ? 23:45, Matthew Kapstein a ?crit : > For one at home in Greek and Latin, I'd recommend Bergaigne > > Matthew Kapstein > Directeur d'?tudes, > Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes > > Numata Visiting Professor of Buddhist Studies, > The University of Chicago dear Colleagues, I have a colleague who is a classicist, whom I may be convincing it would be great to study Sanskrit. I'm not sure what would be the best book to use for someone who is entirely at home in Greek (and Latin) but doesn't know an Indic language. I thought of Stenzler, but then, which edition? Or is there a better choice? It may be disloyal given where I teach, but I consider Gonda to be impossible as anything other than a list of forms... thanks so much in advance for the advice, jonathan -- J. Silk Instituut Kern / Universiteit Leiden Leiden University Institute for Area Studies, LIAS Johan Huizinga Building, Room 1.37 Doelensteeg 16 2311 VL Leiden The Netherlands -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From heike.moser at UNI-TUEBINGEN.DE Fri Oct 12 11:27:17 2012 From: heike.moser at UNI-TUEBINGEN.DE (Heike Moser) Date: Fri, 12 Oct 12 13:27:17 +0200 Subject: Etymology and History of Kutiyattam In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227097659.23782.13507565814119525798.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Dear all, ?????????? = k??iy???am = k??i-???am is clearly of Malay??am origin. It?s meaning is "acting / performing together", "combined acting". Usually it stands for the ?performing together? of at least two actors/actresses during the final days of a performance cycle after several days of inserted flashbacks presented by single characters. In the k??iy???am tradition long solo-sequences or enactments with one character on stage only are called "k?ttu? (i.e. "Na??y?r K?ttu" or "A?gul?y??kamk?ttu"). I discussed the etymological misunderstanding concerning the Sanskrit root "k?rd" in my dissertation "Na??y?r-K?ttu ? ein Teilaspekt des Sanskrittheaterkomplexes K??iy???am. Historische Entwicklung und performative Textumsetzung", Wiesbaden: Harrassowitz 2008, pages 4 and 21. Best regards, Heike Moser ------------------- Dr. Heike Moser Akademische R?tin & Wissenschaftliche Koordinatorin Eberhard Karls Universit?t T?bingen Asien-Orient-Institut (AOI) Abteilung f?r Indologie und Vergleichende Religionswissenschaft Gartenstr. 19 ? 72074 T?bingen Telefon 07071 29-74005 ? Mobil 0176 20030066 ? Fax 07071 29-2675 heike.moser at uni-tuebingen.de http://www.uni-tuebingen.de/indologie/mitarbeiter/heike-moser.html Von: Suresh Kolichala Antworten an: Suresh Kolichala Datum: Freitag, 12. Oktober 2012 12:19 An: Betreff: Re: [INDOLOGY] Etymology and History of Kutiyattam > > > On Fri, Oct 12, 2012 at 12:07 AM, Sudalaimuthu Palaniappan > wrote: >> Dear Scholars, >> There is a CBSE document >> (http://heritage.cbseacademic.in/blog/index.php/performing-arts/ >> ) on the >> Web dated September 2, 2012 which says the following: >> "The word Kutiyattam is derived from the word ?Kuti? which in Malayalam >> language primarily means ?combined? or ?together? while ?attam? means acting. >> Therefore, the word ?Kuttiyatam? means combined acting." >> The above document was a product of the CBSE Research & Development Unit. >> But 'Module 10 - Theatre and Drama in India' of the 'Knowledge Traditions & >> Practices of India' textbook edited by Kapil Kapoor and Michel Danino and >> probably uploaded on or after September 14, 2012 says the following on page >> 7. >> ((http://www.cbseacademic.in/web_material/Circulars/2012/68_KTPI/Module_10.pd >> f >> > > ) > > Although the document was uploaded on September 14, 2012, it is very likely > that the content was prepared much earlier. I believe the website version is > meant to be a later correction. > >> "Kut?iyat?t?am (or ku?t?hiyat?t?am) is derived from the Sanskrit word ku?rd, >> meaning to ?to play?. Kut?iyat?t?am, the only surviving specimen of the >> ancient Sanskrit theatre, remains a popular theatre form in Kerala. In May >> 2001, kut?iyat?t?am earned a rare honour when UNESCO declared it a >> masterpiece of human heritage to be protected and preserved. It is believed >> that Kulasekhara Varma Cheraman Perumal, an ancient King of Kerala, was the >> creator of kut?iyat?t?am in its present form. His book A?t?t?aprakaran?a is >> considered as the most authoritative work on the art form till date." > > This entire paragraph appears to be a straight lift from one of these sites. > It is also possible that the Wikipedia entry for Kutiyattam had this exact > paragraph sometime in the past. > http://www.culturopedia.com/Theatre/koothiyattam.html > http://www.newworldencyclopedia.org/entry/Koodiyattam > > http://www.scribd.com/doc/84386127/Indian-Theatre > > It is interesting that even the Sanskrit word ku?rd is possibly a borrowing > from Dravidian (Burrow Dravidian Studies VII 1948:375, CDIAL 3411,3412 > , > See DEDR 1705 > > ). > > Regards, > Suresh. > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From manufrancis at GMAIL.COM Fri Oct 12 12:29:06 2012 From: manufrancis at GMAIL.COM (Manu Francis) Date: Fri, 12 Oct 12 14:29:06 +0200 Subject: CEIAS newsletter No.5 Message-ID: <161227097662.23782.11075700849782318749.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Dear List, CEIAS Newsletter No.5 is available. http://ceias.ehess.fr/docannexe.php?id=1983 For previous issues: http://ceias.ehess.fr/ -- Emmanuel Francis Charg? de recherche CNRS, Centre d'?tude de l'Inde et de l'Asie du Sud (EHESS-CNRS), Paris Associate member, Centre for the Study of Manuscript Culture (SFB 950), Universit?t Hamburg From christophe.vielle at UCLOUVAIN.BE Fri Oct 12 12:53:20 2012 From: christophe.vielle at UCLOUVAIN.BE (Christophe Vielle) Date: Fri, 12 Oct 12 14:53:20 +0200 Subject: Kulasekhara Varma and History of Kutiyattam In-Reply-To: <8CF764630A1541E-1670-35801@webmail-m015.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <161227097664.23782.5512789852867291165.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> One (first) ???a-prak?ra? (Mal.-Skr. word for designating a stage manual composed in Malayalam) is attributed to a certain T?lan (Subramonia Iyer 1984: 11; for other, edited, ???a-prak?ra?, see e.g. refs in the ed. of the Na???ku?a, Tripunithura, 1993: 206), tadbhava of Atula, who was the prot?g? of the royal dramatist Kula?ekhara (himself author of the dramas Tapat?-Sa?vara?a and Subhadr?-Dhana?jaya, Sanskrit commentaries on each of which having been composed by a Brahmin contemporary of him). The date of the latter, as firmly established by Unni (1977, cf. also in his introduction to Id. & Bruce M. Sullivan ed./transl. 1995 and 2001 of the two plays), falls between 1050 and 1150 AD, which fits perfectly well with the dates of the reign of the last Cera emperor (of Mahodayapuram), i.e. R?mavarman Kula?ekhara (1089-1124 AD, according to M.G.S. Narayanan and then Veluthat in Cherian ed. 1999: 49, 62-63). It is indeed rather improbable (at least for me) that the royal dramatist is to be identified with Kula?ekhara ??v?r and that the ?Kerala? (involving the use of Malayalam) peculiar tradition of staging Sanskrit plays would have started before the 12th century. Christophe Vielle Louvain-la-Neuve Editor, Publications de l'Institut Orientaliste de Louvain series - Last Indological issues: PIOL nos 53, 60 - Still available: Mah?praj??p?ramit???stra (vols 1-2-3-4-5), Asa?ga's Mah?y?nasa?graha, Vimalak?rtinirde?a, Lamotte's History of Indian Buddhism, etc. Le 12 oct. 2012 ? 06:07, Sudalaimuthu Palaniappan a ?crit : > Dear Scholars, > "It is believed that Kulasekhara Varma Cheraman Perumal, an ancient King of Kerala, was the creator of kut?iyat?t?am in its present form. His book A?t?t?aprakaran?a is considered as the most authoritative work on the art form till date." > (...) Also can anyone provide more details regarding this king, Kulasekhara Varma Cheraman Perumal? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From s.hodge at PADMACHOLING.PLUS.COM Fri Oct 12 17:43:50 2012 From: s.hodge at PADMACHOLING.PLUS.COM (Stephen Hodge) Date: Fri, 12 Oct 12 18:43:50 +0100 Subject: Toponym help ? Message-ID: <161227097670.23782.4504915709141960926.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Dear Colleagues, In the the alchemical text, the Ras?r?ava, there are the following lines, mentioning several toponyns. I presume the author is alluding to real places, so if anybody can help with identifying the locations etc of the places mentioned, I would find it very helpful for a long-standing puzzle arising from other research. asti martye mah?pu?y? pavitr? dak?i??-pathe | nad? god?var? n?ma prasiddh? j?hnav? yath? || Ras 12.236 || dak?i?e ca ta?e tasy?? kadal?-nagara? param | tasya dak?i?ata? ?aila? sarva-loke?u vi?ruta? || Ras 12.237 || n?mn? k???a-giri? ceti d??yate sarva-ma?gale | suprasiddh?mbik? n?ma gr?mas tasy?sti sa?nidhau || Ras 12.238 || These are the places I need suggestions / help with: kadal?-nagara? (of course, not the Kadali near the Andhra coast, just north of the God?var? delta) k???a-giri? ambik? Best wishes, Stephen Hodge -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From suresh.kolichala at GMAIL.COM Fri Oct 12 23:01:29 2012 From: suresh.kolichala at GMAIL.COM (Suresh Kolichala) Date: Fri, 12 Oct 12 19:01:29 -0400 Subject: Toponym help ? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227097673.23782.12428536698645309057.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Since Kadali vana (Plantain Forest) and Kadali nagaram (Plantain city) are most frequently mentioned in the N?th Siddha legends as located near Tryambaka k?etra (Nasik), we have to assume that the place-names mentioned here are in the vicinity of N?sik (where God?vari originated) in the state of Maharashtra (also see White 1998:113). There is a town named Ambad south of Nasik, and a few villages named Kelewadi (Kele < *Kadali 'banana') but not sure if any of them refer to the places you mentioned. You are right, it can't be the Kadali near the Andhra coast, just north of the God?var? delta, as it is actually spelled as Ka?ali with retroflex ? (Ka ?ali=ocean). Another perspective is that if consider k???a-giri 'black hill' same as Nallamala Hills (nalla' black', mala 'hill'), in Andhra Pradesh, then the reference may be about the region in and around Srisailam. There is, in fact, a Kadali Vanam at about 25 km distance from Srisailam. The caves here, also known as Akkamahadevi caves, are a big tourist attraction. The only problem with such association, however, is that the river near this region is not Godavari, but Krishna. For What it's Worth, Suresh. On Fri, Oct 12, 2012 at 1:43 PM, Stephen Hodge < s.hodge at padmacholing.plus.com> wrote: > ** > Dear Colleagues, > In the the alchemical text, the Ras?r?ava, there are the following > lines, mentioning several toponyns. I presume the author is alluding to > real places, so if anybody can help with identifying the locations etc of > the places mentioned, I would find it very helpful for a long-standing > puzzle arising from other research. > > asti martye mah?pu?y? pavitr? dak?i??-pathe | > nad? god?var? n?ma prasiddh? j?hnav? yath? || Ras 12.236 || > dak?i?e ca ta?e tasy?? kadal?-nagara? param | > tasya dak?i?ata? ?aila? sarva-loke?u vi?ruta? || Ras 12.237 || > n?mn? k???a-giri? ceti d??yate sarva-ma?gale | > suprasiddh?mbik? n?ma gr?mas tasy?sti sa?nidhau || Ras 12.238 || > > These are the places I need suggestions / help with: > > kadal?-nagara? (of course, not the Kadali near the Andhra coast, just > north of the God?var? delta) > k???a-giri? > ambik? > > Best wishes, > Stephen Hodge > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From psdmccartney at GMAIL.COM Fri Oct 12 16:53:54 2012 From: psdmccartney at GMAIL.COM (patrick mccartney) Date: Fri, 12 Oct 12 22:23:54 +0530 Subject: zAnta rasa Message-ID: <161227097667.23782.13911356941917591771.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Dear List, I would appreciate any advice on texts dealing with the generation of zAnta rasa, particularly in relation to jApa, as in mantra sAdhana and/or kIrtan kArnA in the bhakti tradition. -- All the best, Patrick McCartney PhD Candidate - Anthropology School of Culture, History & Language College of the Asia-Pacific Rm 4.30 Baldessin Precinct Building The Australian National University Canberra, Australia, 0200 skype - psdmccartney W- +61 2 6125 4323 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AfpCc8G_cUw&feature=related From andrew.ollett at GMAIL.COM Sat Oct 13 03:07:58 2012 From: andrew.ollett at GMAIL.COM (Andrew Ollett) Date: Fri, 12 Oct 12 23:07:58 -0400 Subject: zAnta rasa In-Reply-To: <1350096655.35265.YahooMailNeo@web193506.mail.sg3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <161227097680.23782.4482652029573207833.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> i don't know that he wrote a book specifically on the ninth rasa, but it may still be worth looking at: V. Raghavan. The Number of Rasas. Madras: The Adyar Library, 1967. On Fri, Oct 12, 2012 at 10:50 PM, Dipak Bhattacharya < dbhattacharya200498 at yahoo.com> wrote: > Dear Colleague, > Many years ago I happened to read a book by Dr.V.Raghavan on the ninth > rasa. I do not remember the exact title but could try to find that out from > the Visva Bharati library. The difficulty is the the Central Library of the > University is rearranging its books when a they have to work with a chronic > shortage of staff. Still I shall try with my colleagues. > You can also try with R?pa Gosv?min of the Chaitanya movement. Chinmayee > Chatterji had some works on Gosv?min. But I myself have not read > Chatterjee > > Best > DB > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mkapstei at UCHICAGO.EDU Sat Oct 13 07:50:31 2012 From: mkapstei at UCHICAGO.EDU (Matthew Kapstein) Date: Sat, 13 Oct 12 07:50:31 +0000 Subject: zAnta rasa In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227097683.23782.5409703775191231001.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> The play Prabodhacandrodaya addresses the issue of zaantarasa and may be of some interest in this context; for the work enjoyed considerable popularity in later bhakti movements. in my introduction to the play in the Clay Series - where the title is The Rise of Wisdom Moon - I have a few words to say about this, together with references to the writings of Raghavan, Masson, and Patwardhan on the question. on the rasas in bhakti movements in particular, please refer to David Haberman's edition and trans. of the Bhaktirasaam.rtasindhu. Matthew Kapstein Directeur d'?tudes, Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes Numata Visiting Professor of Buddhist Studies, The University of Chicago ________________________________________ From: Indology [INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk] on behalf of Andrew Ollett [andrew.ollett at gmail.com] Sent: Friday, October 12, 2012 10:07 PM To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] zAnta rasa i don't know that he wrote a book specifically on the ninth rasa, but it may still be worth looking at: V. Raghavan. The Number of Rasas. Madras: The Adyar Library, 1967. On Fri, Oct 12, 2012 at 10:50 PM, Dipak Bhattacharya > wrote: Dear Colleague, Many years ago I happened to read a book by Dr.V.Raghavan on the ninth rasa. I do not remember the exact title but could try to find that out from the Visva Bharati library. The difficulty is the the Central Library of the University is rearranging its books when a they have to work with a chronic shortage of staff. Still I shall try with my colleagues. You can also try with R?pa Gosv?min of the Chaitanya movement. Chinmayee Chatterji had some works on Gosv?min. But I myself have not read Chatterjee Best DB From dbhattacharya200498 at YAHOO.COM Sat Oct 13 02:50:55 2012 From: dbhattacharya200498 at YAHOO.COM (Dipak Bhattacharya) Date: Sat, 13 Oct 12 10:50:55 +0800 Subject: zAnta rasa In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227097676.23782.14945239229644276085.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Dear Colleague, Many years ago I happened to read a book by Dr.V.Raghavan on the ninth rasa. I do not remember the exact title but could try to find that out from the Visva Bharati library. The difficulty is the the Central Library of the University is rearranging its books when a they have to work with a chronic shortage of staff. Still I shall try with my colleagues. You can also try with R?pa Gosv?min of the Chaitanya movement. Chinmayee Chatterji had some works on Gosv?min. But I myself have not read Chatterjee Best DB -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ghezziem at TIN.IT Sat Oct 13 11:50:22 2012 From: ghezziem at TIN.IT (Daniela Rossella) Date: Sat, 13 Oct 12 13:50:22 +0200 Subject: zAnta rasa In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227097686.23782.8068334947501266586.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Dear Colleague, perhaps you can find something of interesting in Shantarasa and Abhinavagupta's Philosophy of Aesthetics (by Masson & Patwardhan); Poetic Influence on Bhakti (by S. M. Pandey); Shantarasa and its Scope in Literature (by Bhattacharya); and On the Origins of Kavya: A Never-Ending Story? (by Daniela Rossella, i.e. me), in which I suggest the hypothesis that the shantarasa exactly could be considered the source of the other rasas. Love, Daniela > Dear List, > > I would appreciate any advice on texts dealing with the generation of > zAnta rasa, particularly in relation to jApa, as in mantra sAdhana > and/or kIrtan kArnA in the bhakti tradition. From palaniappa at AOL.COM Sat Oct 13 18:11:20 2012 From: palaniappa at AOL.COM (Sudalaimuthu Palaniappan) Date: Sat, 13 Oct 12 14:11:20 -0400 Subject: Etymology and History of Kutiyattam Message-ID: <161227097688.23782.13397277552828594035.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Suresh, Thanks for the links to the website from which the CBSE content has been lifted verbatim. The name 'Kulasekhara Varma Cheraman Perumal' intrigued me because 'Cheraman' and 'Perumal' could be considered generic titles individually. But, when combined as 'Cheraman Perumal', the name refers to one unique individual, the king who was supposed to be a contemporary of Cuntarar, the ?aiva saint of the 8th century. I was looking for any information that might suggest that there was actually a person called 'Kulasekhara Varma Cheraman Perumal'. It looks like there was no such person. This website has simply conflated the Vaishnava saint and the ?aiva saint. This conclusion is strengthened by the following statement in the same paragraph, i.e., "The dance also finds a mention in Ilangovan's 1500-year old Tamil Classic Chilappathikaram as 'Kerala Chakkian Sivanandam'." This is patent nonsense. Apart from giving a very modern form of the author's name, the quoted sentence seems to combine the name in the epic, i.e., 'k?ttac c?kkaiya?' and the name of one of the four brothers of the Tanjore Quartette, Chinnayya, Ponnayya, Sivanandam, and Vadivelu, of the 19th century! See http://www.swathithirunal.in/personalities/sivanadam.htm . That CBSE chose to present material from this type of website to the secondary school students is deplorable. Regarding the two versions, I doubt if the September 2 version is meant to be a later correction of the version of September 14 that was prepared earlier. See the following two CBSE circulars. http://www.cbseacademic.in/web_material/circulars/2012/KTPI_7_2012.pdf http://www.cbseacademic.in/web_material/Circulars/2012/68_KTPI.pdf The April circular introduces the program and the pilot. The September circular mentions that the schools had earlier received only the modules on Astronomy and Metallurgy. Regards, Palaniappan -----Original Message----- From: Suresh Kolichala To: palaniappa Cc: INDOLOGY Sent: Fri, Oct 12, 2012 5:19 am Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] Etymology and History of Kutiyattam On Fri, Oct 12, 2012 at 12:07 AM, Sudalaimuthu Palaniappan wrote: Dear Scholars, There is a CBSE document (http://heritage.cbseacademic.in/blog/index.php/performing-arts/ ) on the Web dated September 2, 2012 which says the following: "The word Kutiyattam is derived from the word ?Kuti? which in Malayalam language primarily means ?combined? or ?together? while ?attam? means acting. Therefore, the word ?Kuttiyatam? means combined acting." The above document was a product of the CBSE Research & Development Unit. But 'Module 10 - Theatre and Drama in India' of the 'Knowledge Traditions & Practices of India' textbook edited by Kapil Kapoor and Michel Danino and probably uploaded on or after September 14, 2012 says the following on page 7. ((http://www.cbseacademic.in/web_material/Circulars/2012/68_KTPI/Module_10.pdf ) Although the document was uploaded on September 14, 2012, it is very likely that the content was prepared much earlier. I believe the website version is meant to be a later correction. "Kut?iyat?t?am (or ku?t?hiyat?t?am) is derived from the Sanskrit word ku?rd, meaning to ?to play?. Kut?iyat?t?am, the only surviving specimen of the ancient Sanskrit theatre, remains a popular theatre form in Kerala. In May 2001, kut?iyat?t?am earned a rare honour when UNESCO declared it a masterpiece of human heritage to be protected and preserved. It is believed that Kulasekhara Varma Cheraman Perumal, an ancient King of Kerala, was the creator of kut?iyat?t?am in its present form. His book A?t?t?aprakaran?a is considered as the most authoritative work on the art form till date." This entire paragraph appears to be a straight lift from one of these sites. It is also possible that the Wikipedia entry for Kutiyattam had this exact paragraph sometime in the past. http://www.culturopedia.com/Theatre/koothiyattam.html http://www.newworldencyclopedia.org/entry/Koodiyattam http://www.scribd.com/doc/84386127/Indian-Theatre It is interesting that even the Sanskrit word ku?rd is possibly a borrowing from Dravidian (Burrow Dravidian Studies VII 1948:375, CDIAL 3411,3412, See DEDR 1705). Regards, Suresh. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mailmealakendudas at REDIFFMAIL.COM Sun Oct 14 07:42:23 2012 From: mailmealakendudas at REDIFFMAIL.COM (alakendu das) Date: Sun, 14 Oct 12 07:42:23 +0000 Subject: Search for Infinity in ancient India. Message-ID: <161227097692.23782.9434409317126771202.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> To all, While going through a few verses of the ISHA UPANISHAD I came across the following-" Purnamadah Purnamidam Purnatpurnam Udichhayte Purnamasya Purnamadaya Purnam eba Abishyate." A literal English translation would be something like this- This is the full,That is the full From the full flows the full if the full is taken away from the Full What remains is the Full. This may be the earliset attempt by mankind to define the concept of INFINITY in mathemetics. Were the UPANISHDS , the trend -setter in defining Infinity ? I would be grateful and feel enriched if anybody can throw some light on this . ALAKENDU DAS Post-Graduate,Indology. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From gthomgt at GMAIL.COM Mon Oct 15 16:02:29 2012 From: gthomgt at GMAIL.COM (George Thompson) Date: Mon, 15 Oct 12 12:02:29 -0400 Subject: Stenzler or? In-Reply-To: <33557295-07B0-443C-B1D2-746C74932C6A@uclouvain.be> Message-ID: <161227097702.23782.9414232696634175837.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Dear List, There is some doubt whether Mayrhofer's grammar was ever translated into English. I believe I saw an English translation in Berkeley, Cal., but that was a long time ago, and my memory may be of some other grammar no longer remembered. I didn't buy it because I already owned the German edition. Can someone clarify? George Thompson On Fri, Oct 12, 2012 at 4:31 AM, Christophe Vielle wrote: > For the French-speaking students, > there is, just issued (I discover it today), the > Grammaire sanskrite ? l'usage des ?tudiants hell?nistes et latinistes > by my Colleague Francine Mawet ; see: > http://www.peeters-leuven.be/boekoverz.asp?nr=9023 > where in her self-presentation she refers to the > Sanskrit Grammar by M. Mayrhofer (1972) > (? translation of his German Sanskrit-Grammatik mit sprachvergleichenden > Erl?uterungen, 1964) > > It is to be noted that the > Grammaire ?l?mentaire et pratique du sanskrit classique, avec exercices > corrig?s et textes expliqu?s > issued in 2010, by the "Classicist" (and Indologist) Sylvain Brocquet > See: http://www.safran.be/proddetail.php?prod=LCA16 > is an excellent manual (with audio-examples available) for self-teaching. > > With best wishes, > > Christophe Vielle > Louvain-la-Neuve > > Editor, Publications de l'Institut Orientaliste de Louvain series > - Last Indological issues: PIOL nos 53, 60 > - Still available: Mah?praj??p?ramit???stra (vols 1-2-3-4-5), Asa?ga's > Mah?y?nasa?graha, Vimalak?rtinirde?a, Lamotte's History of Indian Buddhism, > etc. > > Le 11 oct. 2012 ? 23:45, Matthew Kapstein a ?crit : > > For one at home in Greek and Latin, I'd recommend Bergaigne > > Matthew Kapstein > Directeur d'?tudes, > Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes > > Numata Visiting Professor of Buddhist Studies, > The University of Chicago > > > dear Colleagues, > > I have a colleague who is a classicist, whom I may be convincing it would be > great to study Sanskrit. I'm not sure what would be the best book to use for > someone who is entirely at home in Greek (and Latin) but doesn't know an > Indic language. I thought of Stenzler, but then, which edition? Or is there > a better choice? It may be disloyal given where I teach, but I consider > Gonda to be impossible as anything other than a list of forms... > > thanks so much in advance for the advice, jonathan > -- > J. Silk > Instituut Kern / Universiteit Leiden > Leiden University Institute for Area Studies, LIAS > Johan Huizinga Building, Room 1.37 > Doelensteeg 16 > 2311 VL Leiden > The Netherlands From gruenen at SUB.UNI-GOETTINGEN.DE Mon Oct 15 15:30:18 2012 From: gruenen at SUB.UNI-GOETTINGEN.DE (Gruenendahl, Reinhold) Date: Mon, 15 Oct 12 15:30:18 +0000 Subject: GRETIL update #405 Message-ID: <161227097699.23782.14641847809219723392.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> GRETIL is pleased to be able to report the following addition(s) to its collection: Vidyanatha: Prataparudriya, or Prataparudrayasobhusana, with Kumarasvamin's Ratnapana commentary: http://gretil.sub.uni-goettingen.de/gretil.htm#VidPRudri __________________________________________________________________________ "GRETIL is intended as a cumulative register of the numerous download sites for electronic texts in Indian languages." (from the 2001 "mission statement") GRETIL - Goettingen Register of Electronic Texts in Indian Languages: http://gretil.sub.uni-goettingen.de/gretil.htm From hhhock at ILLINOIS.EDU Mon Oct 15 16:14:34 2012 From: hhhock at ILLINOIS.EDU (Hock, Hans Henrich) Date: Mon, 15 Oct 12 16:14:34 +0000 Subject: Stenzler or? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227097705.23782.7941883454204143675.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> http://www.amazon.com/A-Sanskrit-Grammar-Manfred-Mayrhofer/dp/0817312854 Hans Henrich Hock On 15 Oct 2012, at 11:02, George Thompson wrote: > Dear List, > > There is some doubt whether Mayrhofer's grammar was ever translated > into English. I believe I saw an English translation in Berkeley, > Cal., but that was a long time ago, and my memory may be of some other > grammar no longer remembered. I didn't buy it because I already > owned the German edition. > > Can someone clarify? > > George Thompson > > On Fri, Oct 12, 2012 at 4:31 AM, Christophe Vielle > wrote: >> For the French-speaking students, >> there is, just issued (I discover it today), the >> Grammaire sanskrite ? l'usage des ?tudiants hell?nistes et latinistes >> by my Colleague Francine Mawet ; see: >> http://www.peeters-leuven.be/boekoverz.asp?nr=9023 >> where in her self-presentation she refers to the >> Sanskrit Grammar by M. Mayrhofer (1972) >> (? translation of his German Sanskrit-Grammatik mit sprachvergleichenden >> Erl?uterungen, 1964) >> >> It is to be noted that the >> Grammaire ?l?mentaire et pratique du sanskrit classique, avec exercices >> corrig?s et textes expliqu?s >> issued in 2010, by the "Classicist" (and Indologist) Sylvain Brocquet >> See: http://www.safran.be/proddetail.php?prod=LCA16 >> is an excellent manual (with audio-examples available) for self-teaching. >> >> With best wishes, >> >> Christophe Vielle >> Louvain-la-Neuve >> >> Editor, Publications de l'Institut Orientaliste de Louvain series >> - Last Indological issues: PIOL nos 53, 60 >> - Still available: Mah?praj??p?ramit???stra (vols 1-2-3-4-5), Asa?ga's >> Mah?y?nasa?graha, Vimalak?rtinirde?a, Lamotte's History of Indian Buddhism, >> etc. >> >> Le 11 oct. 2012 ? 23:45, Matthew Kapstein a ?crit : >> >> For one at home in Greek and Latin, I'd recommend Bergaigne >> >> Matthew Kapstein >> Directeur d'?tudes, >> Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes >> >> Numata Visiting Professor of Buddhist Studies, >> The University of Chicago >> >> >> dear Colleagues, >> >> I have a colleague who is a classicist, whom I may be convincing it would be >> great to study Sanskrit. I'm not sure what would be the best book to use for >> someone who is entirely at home in Greek (and Latin) but doesn't know an >> Indic language. I thought of Stenzler, but then, which edition? Or is there >> a better choice? It may be disloyal given where I teach, but I consider >> Gonda to be impossible as anything other than a list of forms... >> >> thanks so much in advance for the advice, jonathan >> -- >> J. Silk >> Instituut Kern / Universiteit Leiden >> Leiden University Institute for Area Studies, LIAS >> Johan Huizinga Building, Room 1.37 >> Doelensteeg 16 >> 2311 VL Leiden >> The Netherlands From wujastyk at GMAIL.COM Mon Oct 15 21:29:21 2012 From: wujastyk at GMAIL.COM (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Mon, 15 Oct 12 16:29:21 -0500 Subject: Fwd: "Freedom" - My new Book is now available In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227097708.23782.12543189568812088535.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> This message to the INDOLOGY forum breaches the policy of the forum. The rules of this forum say: *Discouraged forms of communications:* List members are discouraged from posting messages that are not part of a discourse on indology. In particular, commercial or advertising messages are strongly deprecated, and may lead to suspension. (On the other hand, authors are positively encouraged to post news of their recent academic publications.) In this case, Prof. Pandurangi has, regrettably, done both things: posted news of someone else's publication and included commercial and advertising text. Even more troubling is that a bone-fide member of the list has posted verbatim a commercially-oriented message by a non-member. This is perilously close to what Wikipedia calls sockpuppetry. Narayana Murthy Kavi has not applied for membership of this forum, and has no rights to post messages to the rest of us. It is understandable that one may be enthusiastic about a new book by a valued colleague. But it is essential that the rules of this forum should be followed, for the good of all. The deed is done. All I can say to members is, please do not buy the book as a result of the unauthorized and deprecated advertising that has happened here. Best, Dominik Wujastyk INDOLOGY committee member. On 15 October 2012 10:26, Veeranarayana Pandurangi wrote: > > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > From: Narayana Murthy Kavi > Date: Mon, Oct 8, 2012 at 6:35 PM > Subject: "Freedom" - My new Book is now available > > > Dear Friends, > > Announcing the Publication of my Book entitled "Freedom". > > See what the previewers have said: > > "Here is one book which covers all aspects of life, simple, > clear, written with a scientific bent of mind, a great book, very > much unlike many other books I have seen on similar topics" > > "The book is a masterpiece - no doubt" > > " The book is simply awesome and I feel it is a 'must read' for > all human beings" > > "This is a book I love to read again and again" > > This is not just another book, it is quite a unique book. This is > a book you must read. You will stand to gain immensely. This book > tells you how to make the most of your life and be healthy and > happy. 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You can > forward this email to your friends, colleagues, relatives, > anybody you wish to. > > Dated: 02 October 2012 (Gandhi Jayanti) > Thanks and Regards, > > Kavi Narayana Murthy > > Professor > Department of Computer and Information Sciences > and > Department of Sanskrit Studies > University of Hyderabad, Hyderabad - 500046, INDIA > > Ph: 91-40-2313 4017 (Off) FAX: 91-40-23010145, 91-40-23010120 > Web: 202.41.85.68 > > Guiding Principles for a Better Life: > 1) Simple Living = Non-Polluting, Harmless Living = ahiMsa > 2) Self Improvement - Stop Complaining, Set Examples > 3) Human Values - Put satya and ahiMsa ahead of Money and Success > 4) Indian Tradition - The Wisdom of our ancient Rshi-s > 5) Social Service - Live and Let Live > > > > -- > Veeranarayana N.K. Pandurangi > Head, Dept of Darshanas, > Yoganandacharya Bhavan, > Jagadguru Ramanandacharya Rajasthan Samskrita University, Madau, post > Bhankrota, Jaipur, 302026. > > ?? ??????????? ??????? ???????? ? ????????? > ??? ???????? ??????? ? ?????? ??????????????? > ?????????????? ??????? ??????? ??????????? > ??????????????? ?????? ???????? ??????????? (?.??.) > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From veerankp at GMAIL.COM Mon Oct 15 15:26:28 2012 From: veerankp at GMAIL.COM (Veeranarayana Pandurangi) Date: Mon, 15 Oct 12 20:56:28 +0530 Subject: Fwd: "Freedom" - My new Book is now available In-Reply-To: <1349701539.8020.YahooMailClassic@web163006.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <161227097696.23782.14664368898102266479.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Narayana Murthy Kavi Date: Mon, Oct 8, 2012 at 6:35 PM Subject: "Freedom" - My new Book is now available Dear Friends, Announcing the Publication of my Book entitled "Freedom". See what the previewers have said: "Here is one book which covers all aspects of life, simple, clear, written with a scientific bent of mind, a great book, very much unlike many other books I have seen on similar topics" "The book is a masterpiece - no doubt" " The book is simply awesome and I feel it is a 'must read' for all human beings" "This is a book I love to read again and again" This is not just another book, it is quite a unique book. This is a book you must read. You will stand to gain immensely. This book tells you how to make the most of your life and be healthy and happy. Pl. read through the whole book and feel free to get back to me with your comments and criticisms. Publisher: Literary Circle, Jaipur ISBN: 978-9381951-27-9 830 Pages List Price: Rs. 995/- You can now obtain copies of the books from me directly at a very special discount rate of Rs. 650/- only. Limited period offer, take or book your copy today. Pl. do not send any payment via cheque/draft etc. now. A book is the best gift you can give to anybody on any occasion. Why not buy a few extra copies for gifting to your near and dear ones? Kindly give widest possible publicity to this book. You can forward this email to your friends, colleagues, relatives, anybody you wish to. Dated: 02 October 2012 (Gandhi Jayanti) Thanks and Regards, Kavi Narayana Murthy Professor Department of Computer and Information Sciences and Department of Sanskrit Studies University of Hyderabad, Hyderabad - 500046, INDIA Ph: 91-40-2313 4017 (Off) FAX: 91-40-23010145, 91-40-23010120 Web: 202.41.85.68 Guiding Principles for a Better Life: 1) Simple Living = Non-Polluting, Harmless Living = ahiMsa 2) Self Improvement - Stop Complaining, Set Examples 3) Human Values - Put satya and ahiMsa ahead of Money and Success 4) Indian Tradition - The Wisdom of our ancient Rshi-s 5) Social Service - Live and Let Live -- Veeranarayana N.K. Pandurangi Head, Dept of Darshanas, Yoganandacharya Bhavan, Jagadguru Ramanandacharya Rajasthan Samskrita University, Madau, post Bhankrota, Jaipur, 302026. ?? ??????????? ??????? ???????? ? ????????? ??? ???????? ??????? ? ?????? ??????????????? ?????????????? ??????? ??????? ??????????? ??????????????? ?????? ???????? ??????????? (?.??.) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From gthomgt at GMAIL.COM Tue Oct 16 19:27:40 2012 From: gthomgt at GMAIL.COM (George Thompson) Date: Tue, 16 Oct 12 15:27:40 -0400 Subject: Stenzler or? In-Reply-To: <24813ACCC4FD7E4BA49C84D3751BCCDE57A3FD38@CHIMBX1.ad.uillinois.edu> Message-ID: <161227097715.23782.10832125704826752279.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Thank you to Victor and Hans for your quick replies. George Thompson > From veerankp at GMAIL.COM Tue Oct 16 12:49:33 2012 From: veerankp at GMAIL.COM (Veeranarayana Pandurangi) Date: Tue, 16 Oct 12 18:19:33 +0530 Subject: Fwd: "Freedom" - My new Book is now available In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227097712.23782.6722719964284196065.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Dear all i am sorry for posting narayanamurtis mail verbatim to list. It is left to members to buy that book or not. But more important thing is that people should know about this book. It is a case of culturale difference as often pointed by people. Thanks. On Oct 16, 2012 2:59 AM, "Dominik Wujastyk" wrote: -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From karp at UW.EDU.PL Wed Oct 17 14:11:59 2012 From: karp at UW.EDU.PL (Artur Karp) Date: Wed, 17 Oct 12 16:11:59 +0200 Subject: Indogermanisches Seminar Message-ID: <161227097718.23782.4279502821918467418.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Dear List, Which of Berlin's educational institutions continues the pre-war Indogermanisches Seminar Berlin? I would be very grateful for an e-mail contact with its Librarian. Regards, Artur Karp Senior Lecturer in Sanskrit and Pali (ret.) South Asian Studies Dept. University of Warsaw Poland -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From gerard.huet at INRIA.FR Fri Oct 19 16:18:50 2012 From: gerard.huet at INRIA.FR (=?utf-8?Q?G=C3=A9rard_Huet?=) Date: Fri, 19 Oct 12 18:18:50 +0200 Subject: Improved Sanskrit Computational Linguistics Platform Message-ID: <161227097721.23782.1163286542761882942.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Dear colleagues, this message is to inform you of the recent release of a significantly enhanced version of the Sanskrit Heritage platform at http://sankrit.inria.fr Main improvements: 1. The Sanskrit Reader is now driven through a graphical interface giving a concise summary of segmentation solutions. This allows the input of more realistic Sanskrit sentences, without the risk of choking the server with enormous Web pages. Furthermore, it is now much more convenient to focus rapidly on the solution by clicking on preferred segments. Each segment may be inspected, revealing its morphological parameters and lemma, with possible lexicon access. At any point the user may undo his moves, or switch to the old interface when few potential solutions remain. 2. When an input chunk is not analysable by the system, the user is offered the possibility to modify it or suppress it. 3. Input is possible in 4 ASCII transliteration schemes, as well as in Unicode UFT-8, either for romanized transcription with diacritics (IAST) or for devan?gar?. 4. Lexicon access is possible to the Sanskrit to French Heritage dictionary, as before, but also to an HTML version of the Monier-Williams English dictionary. Sticky preference to this last choice is encapsulated in the English entry page http://sanskrit.inria.fr/index.en.html 5. Numerous fixes to the morphology generation schemes have been effected, with a view to conform to Paninian processes. All comments welcome G. Huet & P. Goyal From palaniappa at AOL.COM Sat Oct 20 17:11:10 2012 From: palaniappa at AOL.COM (Sudalaimuthu Palaniappan) Date: Sat, 20 Oct 12 13:11:10 -0400 Subject: On the Date of Classical Tamil Poems Message-ID: <161227097727.23782.3020821349203700573.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> DearScholars, I hadearlier written about the chieftain mentioned in Classical Tamil poems as P??a? who ruled in a northern border area of Tami?akam. (See http://listserv.liv.ac.uk/cgi-bin/wa?A2=ind1009&L=INDOLOGY&P=R912&D=0&I=-3) Although the poemseemed to refer to a single individual, I had suggested that it referred to thedynasty of the ?Bana? kings whose names had originally been P??a? (in singular) before the variation p->b- in thename took place. Now I havefound one more Classical Tamil poem that confirms my thesis. ???????????????????????????alar? vil ke?u t??ai vicciyar perumaka? v?ntaro?u poruta ????aip p??ar puli n?kkuu?a? nilai ka??a kali ke?u ku?ump?r ?rppi?umperit? (Ku?untokai 328.5-8) Thiscan be translated as given below: ?The gossip was louder thanthe roar of the noisy village in the arid tract, that saw the stance of the P??arthat resembled the look of the tiger, when the chief of Vicciyar of armyabounding in archers fought against the kings.? Inthe past, commentators like U. V. Caminathaiyarhad interpreted the word ?P??ar? here as the homophon,?p??ar?,meaning ?bards?. They interpreted thebards as standing between the two armies and looking at both armies as a ?lion?does!. The real meaning of ?lookof a tiger? can be seen in the following Kalittokai poem valimu?pi? valle??a y?kkai puli n?kki? cu??uamai villar curi va?ar pittaiyar a??am p?rttu alkum ka?u?ka? ma?avar ?(Kalittokai 4.1-3) This canbe translated as ?the warriors of the arid tract with hard bodies ofextraordinary strength, looks of tiger, bows with string/leather(?) coiledaround, locks of hair with curls, and fierce eyes, who are on the watch intenton killing?? So the ?lookof tiger? in Ku?untokai 328.7 should refer to the fierce look of ?P?nar?warriors who were engaged in fighting. It cannot refer to ?p?nar? bards, ifthey are supposed to be bystanders. The context of the poem indicatesthat the P??ar had fought on one side. Since the Vicciyar wereonly minor chieftains engaged in a battle against major kings, we can guessthat the P??ar fought fiercely on the side of the underdogs,the Vicciyar. This was probably why their bravery was appreciated by thevillagers. Interestingly,Akam.226.13 describes the P??an as ?vali mikum mu?pi? p??a?? reminding us of Kalittokai 4.1. Thisidentification of P??ar with the B??akings mentioned in later inscriptions and the epic Ma?im?kalai is very important for the dating of Classical Tamil texts. It shouldbe noted that the 5th century T??agu??a inscription refers to the dynasty under consideration as B?had-B??a. Later non-Tamil inscriptions continue to referto them as B??as while Tamil inscriptions refer to them as V??a- where b- > v-. The name V??a? occurs as the lord of Ci?uku?i,probably a coastal village on the east coast of the P???iyan kingdom. There is aninstance in the Maturaikk??ci 203 where the name V??a? seems to refer to B???surain the context of referring to his fabulous wealth. We should note that theCilappatik?ram refers more explicitly to B???sura,son of Mah?bali, as V??a? and not as P??a?. The same is true of the Ma?im?kalaialso. Clearly if the ClassicalTamil texts had been composed in the 5th century CE or later, they would bereferring to the P??ar chieftain as V??a? and not P??a?. So the Classical Tamiltexts would have been composed earlier than the time when P??a- has changed toB??a. Interestingly, M?m?la??r, the author of Akam 31, has also authored Akam325, which mentions Pa?a?, thechieftain. As I had discussed earlier, Akam 31 was composed earlier than theKalabhra rule in Tami?akam. (http://listserv.liv.ac.uk/cgi-bin/wa?A2=ind0908&L=INDOLOGY&P=R4899&I=-3,http://listserv.liv.ac.uk/cgi-bin/wa?A2=ind0908&L=INDOLOGY&P=R6548&I=-3) Froma historian?s viewpoint, Akam 325 is probably the earliest mention of theB?nas. Thanks inadvance for your comments Regards, Palaniappan -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From gerard.huet at INRIA.FR Sat Oct 20 15:33:17 2012 From: gerard.huet at INRIA.FR (=?utf-8?Q?G=C3=A9rard_Huet?=) Date: Sat, 20 Oct 12 17:33:17 +0200 Subject: Corrigendum: Improved Sanskrit Computational Linguistics Platform In-Reply-To: <122DC16C-541E-4C87-AF2B-BBDDD55BDCED@inria.fr> Message-ID: <161227097723.23782.18375176617267963611.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Le 19 oct. 2012 ? 18:18, G?rard Huet a ?crit : > Dear colleagues, > > this message is to inform you of the recent release of a significantly enhanced version of the Sanskrit Heritage platform at http://sankrit.inria.fr The link was misspelled, it should read http://sanskrit.inria.fr or http://sanskrit.inria.fr/index.fr.html for the French lexicon site, and http://sanskrit.inria.fr/index.en.html for the same site, but now indexing Monier-Williams dictionary. Apologies for the noise. GH From palaniappa at AOL.COM Sun Oct 21 00:39:40 2012 From: palaniappa at AOL.COM (Sudalaimuthu Palaniappan) Date: Sat, 20 Oct 12 20:39:40 -0400 Subject: On the Date of Classical Tamil Poems Message-ID: <161227097735.23782.6809568902530718802.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Dear Dr. Tieken, I am changing the transliteration convention because I see that my diacritics are not coming through properly as seen in your response. I disagree with UVS's interpretation that the subject of 'kaNTa' was 'pANar'. Indeed so does the commentator perumazaippulavar who says "pANarkaL pulippArvai otta pArvaiyuTaiyarAkiya nilaimaiyin2aik kaNTa". The subject is the village or village people. Clearly UVS found it did not make sense for the village people to cheer the bards when a battle is going on. So he interpreted "kaNTa" as 'kANappaTTa". 'uRaz' here is a particle of comparison and does not mean battle going up and down. Even UVS says nothing about the battle going up and down. In fact, he says, "puliyin2atu pArvaiyai otta nilaiyin2AR kANappaTTa" where "otta" is the gloss for "uRaz". Eva Wilden considers 'uRaz' as a particle of comparison in her translation too. It is clear even she is perplexed with this puli nOkku. She notes, "What does pANar puli nOkku uRaz nilai mean? T. V.G . explains the situation of the comparison as a competition of bards who would exchange challenging looks with each other." T. V. Gopal Iyer's explanation does not make sense. In fact it is silly. Are the bards having a musical competition while the battle is going on? The solution is very simple. The poem does not refer to bards at all. Here 'pANar' refers to the members of the bANa (Bana) dynasty and their fighters. There is clear evidence that the variation of Tamil p- > Ka./Te. b- in the word 'pANa-' has occurred historically. Consider the name of a Saiva devotee pANa-bhadra. He is said to belong to the pANar community of Madurai. He is referred to as 'bANa' in a Kannada inscription of the 12th century in the Dharwar district. See EI, vol. 5, p.254. Palkuriki Somanatha also refers to one 'bANa'. (Somanatha does not seem to have received the information about the devotees from any literary source. He conflates cOza and pANTiya personages, kAviri and vaikai rivers, etc. In the case of bANa, he conflates human bANa's story with that of bANAsura.) With the Kannada and Telugu forms as bANa- , the devotee's name is later fully Sanskritized/hypercorrected as bANabhadra in a Sanskrit composition of Muthaiya Bhagavathar. In a Tamil wedding song sung by Brahmins, the name is pronounced as bANa-. The hypercorrection of 'pANa-' into 'bANa-' has been taken to such extreme lengths that R. Nagaswamy in his recent book, Mirror of Tamil and Sanskrit, says, "...The record states that he was to sing in the presenceof God of the Thiruvidaimarud?r temple and direct other B?nas for arranging theDancing girls to sing (Thiruvidai marudur - udaiy?rukku - p?davum, ikkoyilTaliyil?rai p?duvikkavum ikkoyil Devaradiy?rai p?duvikkavum B?napper?ka). TheB?nas were great singers from the Sangam age and we find the B?nas, Y?lp?na wasa close friend of Jn?na-sambandar and again we find the B?nas were appointed inthe Great temple of Thanjavaur. According to this inscription the serviceshould be added to the temple service and the B?na should be paid one kalamof paddy per day should be paid to the Perariayan for singing. He should beallotted one residence as B?nak-kudiyiruppu as before." Thus in the case of the pANa- devotee, Ta. p- > Ka./Te. b- > Skt. b- and has become b- even in modernTamil contexts. In the case of the bANa dynasty, the sound variation has been Ta. p- > Te./Ka./Skt. b- > Ta. v-. Literary Tamil scholars not being familiar with historical records and lacking adequate historical linguistic approach, have misinterpreted the poem thus missing significant historical insights. Regards, Palaniappan -----Original Message----- From: Tieken, H.J.H. To: INDOLOGY Sent: Sat, Oct 20, 2012 2:07 pm Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] On the Date of Classical Tamil Poems Dear Dr Palaniappan I am not sure if the paaNar are directly involved in the fighting, as you seem to think. One can only agree with Swaminathaiyar, when he wrote that they are the bards of the two fighting kings, the veentar and the vicciyar perumakaN respectively. The bards are looking on while the battle goes up and down (uraL nilai). Admittedly, I do not know as yet what to do with puli nookku. The main point is that the bards are the subject (or implied subject, depending on the meaning of puli nookku) of the participle kaNTa. Best Herman Tieken -----Original Message----- From: Indology on behalf of Sudalaimuthu Palaniappan Sent: Sat 10/20/2012 7:11 PM To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Subject: [INDOLOGY] On the Date of Classical Tamil Poems DearScholars, I hadearlier written about the chieftain mentioned in Classical Tamil poems as Pa?a? who ruled in a northern border area of Tami?akam. (See http://listserv.liv.ac.uk/cgi-bin/wa?A2=ind1009&L=INDOLOGY&P=R912&D=0&I=-3) Although the poemseemed to refer to a single individual, I had suggested that it referred to thedynasty of the 'Bana' kings whose names had originally been Pa?a? (in singular) before the variation p->b- in thename took place. Now I havefound one more Classical Tamil poem that confirms my thesis. ...........................alare vil ke?u ta?ai vicciyar perumaka? ventaro?u poruta ?a??aip pa?ar puli nokkuu?a? nilai ka??a kali ke?u ku?umpur arppi?umperite (Ku?untokai 328.5-8) Thiscan be translated as given below: "The gossip was louder thanthe roar of the noisy village in the arid tract, that saw the stance of the Pa?arthat resembled the look of the tiger, when the chief of Vicciyar of armyabounding in archers fought against the kings." Inthe past, commentators like U. V. Caminathaiyarhad interpreted the word "Pa?ar" here as the homophon,'pa?ar',meaning 'bards'. They interpreted thebards as standing between the two armies and looking at both armies as a 'lion'does!. The real meaning of 'lookof a tiger' can be seen in the following Kalittokai poem valimu?pi? valle??a yakkai puli nokki? cu??uamai villar curi va?ar pittaiyar a??am parttu alkum ka?u?ka? ma?avar .(Kalittokai 4.1-3) This canbe translated as "the warriors of the arid tract with hard bodies ofextraordinary strength, looks of tiger, bows with string/leather(?) coiledaround, locks of hair with curls, and fierce eyes, who are on the watch intenton killing." So the 'lookof tiger' in Ku?untokai 328.7 should refer to the fierce look of 'Panar'warriors who were engaged in fighting. It cannot refer to 'panar' bards, ifthey are supposed to be bystanders. The context of the poem indicatesthat the Pa?ar had fought on one side. Since the Vicciyar wereonly minor chieftains engaged in a battle against major kings, we can guessthat the Pa?ar fought fiercely on the side of the underdogs,the Vicciyar. This was probably why their bravery was appreciated by thevillagers. Interestingly,Akam.226.13 describes the Pa?an as "vali mikum mu?pi? pa?a?" reminding us of Kalittokai 4.1. Thisidentification of Pa?ar with the Ba?akings mentioned in later inscriptions and the epic Ma?imekalai is very important for the dating of Classical Tamil texts. It shouldbe noted that the 5th century Ta?agu??a inscription refers to the dynasty under consideration as B?had-Ba?a. Later non-Tamil inscriptions continue to referto them as Ba?as while Tamil inscriptions refer to them as Va?a- where b- > v-. The name Va?a? occurs as the lord of Ci?uku?i,probably a coastal village on the east coast of the Pa??iyan kingdom. There is aninstance in the Maturaikka?ci 203 where the name Va?a? seems to refer to Ba?asurain the context of referring to his fabulous wealth. We should note that theCilappatikaram refers more explicitly to Ba?asura,son of Mahabali, as Va?a? and not as Pa?a?. The same is true of the Ma?imekalaialso. Clearly if the ClassicalTamil texts had been composed in the 5th century CE or later, they would bereferring to the Pa?ar chieftain as Va?a? and not Pa?a?. So the Classical Tamiltexts would have been composed earlier than the time when Pa?a- has changed toBa?a. Interestingly, Mamula?ar, the author of Akam 31, has also authored Akam325, which mentions Pa?a?, thechieftain. As I had discussed earlier, Akam 31 was composed earlier than theKalabhra rule in Tami?akam. (http://listserv.liv.ac.uk/cgi-bin/wa?A2=ind0908&L=INDOLOGY&P=R4899&I=-3,http://listserv.liv.ac.uk/cgi-bin/wa?A2=ind0908&L=INDOLOGY&P=R6548&I=-3) Froma historian's viewpoint, Akam 325 is probably the earliest mention of theBanas. Thanks inadvance for your comments Regards, Palaniappan -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From H.J.H.Tieken at HUM.LEIDENUNIV.NL Sat Oct 20 19:06:00 2012 From: H.J.H.Tieken at HUM.LEIDENUNIV.NL (Tieken, H.J.H.) Date: Sat, 20 Oct 12 21:06:00 +0200 Subject: On the Date of Classical Tamil Poems Message-ID: <161227097731.23782.2358274793943543689.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Dear Dr Palaniappan I am not sure if the paaNar are directly involved in the fighting, as you seem to think. One can only agree with Swaminathaiyar, when he wrote that they are the bards of the two fighting kings, the veentar and the vicciyar perumakaN respectively. The bards are looking on while the battle goes up and down (uraL nilai). Admittedly, I do not know as yet what to do with puli nookku. The main point is that the bards are the subject (or implied subject, depending on the meaning of puli nookku) of the participle kaNTa. Best Herman Tieken -----Original Message----- From: Indology on behalf of Sudalaimuthu Palaniappan Sent: Sat 10/20/2012 7:11 PM To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Subject: [INDOLOGY] On the Date of Classical Tamil Poems DearScholars, I hadearlier written about the chieftain mentioned in Classical Tamil poems as Pa?a? who ruled in a northern border area of Tami?akam. (See http://listserv.liv.ac.uk/cgi-bin/wa?A2=ind1009&L=INDOLOGY&P=R912&D=0&I=-3) Although the poemseemed to refer to a single individual, I had suggested that it referred to thedynasty of the 'Bana' kings whose names had originally been Pa?a? (in singular) before the variation p->b- in thename took place. Now I havefound one more Classical Tamil poem that confirms my thesis. ...........................alare vil ke?u ta?ai vicciyar perumaka? ventaro?u poruta ?a??aip pa?ar puli nokkuu?a? nilai ka??a kali ke?u ku?umpur arppi?umperite (Ku?untokai 328.5-8) Thiscan be translated as given below: "The gossip was louder thanthe roar of the noisy village in the arid tract, that saw the stance of the Pa?arthat resembled the look of the tiger, when the chief of Vicciyar of armyabounding in archers fought against the kings." Inthe past, commentators like U. V. Caminathaiyarhad interpreted the word "Pa?ar" here as the homophon,'pa?ar',meaning 'bards'. They interpreted thebards as standing between the two armies and looking at both armies as a 'lion'does!. The real meaning of 'lookof a tiger' can be seen in the following Kalittokai poem valimu?pi? valle??a yakkai puli nokki? cu??uamai villar curi va?ar pittaiyar a??am parttu alkum ka?u?ka? ma?avar .(Kalittokai 4.1-3) This canbe translated as "the warriors of the arid tract with hard bodies ofextraordinary strength, looks of tiger, bows with string/leather(?) coiledaround, locks of hair with curls, and fierce eyes, who are on the watch intenton killing." So the 'lookof tiger' in Ku?untokai 328.7 should refer to the fierce look of 'Panar'warriors who were engaged in fighting. It cannot refer to 'panar' bards, ifthey are supposed to be bystanders. The context of the poem indicatesthat the Pa?ar had fought on one side. Since the Vicciyar wereonly minor chieftains engaged in a battle against major kings, we can guessthat the Pa?ar fought fiercely on the side of the underdogs,the Vicciyar. This was probably why their bravery was appreciated by thevillagers. Interestingly,Akam.226.13 describes the Pa?an as "vali mikum mu?pi? pa?a?" reminding us of Kalittokai 4.1. Thisidentification of Pa?ar with the Ba?akings mentioned in later inscriptions and the epic Ma?imekalai is very important for the dating of Classical Tamil texts. It shouldbe noted that the 5th century Ta?agu??a inscription refers to the dynasty under consideration as B?had-Ba?a. Later non-Tamil inscriptions continue to referto them as Ba?as while Tamil inscriptions refer to them as Va?a- where b- > v-. The name Va?a? occurs as the lord of Ci?uku?i,probably a coastal village on the east coast of the Pa??iyan kingdom. There is aninstance in the Maturaikka?ci 203 where the name Va?a? seems to refer to Ba?asurain the context of referring to his fabulous wealth. We should note that theCilappatikaram refers more explicitly to Ba?asura,son of Mahabali, as Va?a? and not as Pa?a?. The same is true of the Ma?imekalaialso. Clearly if the ClassicalTamil texts had been composed in the 5th century CE or later, they would bereferring to the Pa?ar chieftain as Va?a? and not Pa?a?. So the Classical Tamiltexts would have been composed earlier than the time when Pa?a- has changed toBa?a. Interestingly, Mamula?ar, the author of Akam 31, has also authored Akam325, which mentions Pa?a?, thechieftain. As I had discussed earlier, Akam 31 was composed earlier than theKalabhra rule in Tami?akam. (http://listserv.liv.ac.uk/cgi-bin/wa?A2=ind0908&L=INDOLOGY&P=R4899&I=-3,http://listserv.liv.ac.uk/cgi-bin/wa?A2=ind0908&L=INDOLOGY&P=R6548&I=-3) Froma historian's viewpoint, Akam 325 is probably the earliest mention of theBanas. Thanks inadvance for your comments Regards, Palaniappan -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From glhart at BERKELEY.EDU Sun Oct 21 14:35:08 2012 From: glhart at BERKELEY.EDU (George Hart) Date: Sun, 21 Oct 12 07:35:08 -0700 Subject: On the Date of Classical Tamil Poems In-Reply-To: <8CF7CFD0934E49D-2648-FCCD@webmail-m133.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <161227097743.23782.7906078141400169778.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Dear Palaniappan, I think you idea is a fascinating one, but I'd like to see clearer evidence linking the name P??a? to the B??a dynasty. Here are two more poems: Akan????u 113: He has gone even beyond the good land of P??a? who never shows his back in battle, whose food is as plentiful as the food at a festival, whose long spear has a black, dense ferrule and an oiled shaft, and who, even though it was far away, looked for the right time, 15 went, took and drove the cattle and the hump-backed bulls from the well-stocked fort where his enemies guarded them. ...?????????????? ?????? ???????? ??????? ???????? ?????????? ????????? ????? ??????? ??????? ???????? ???????? ??????? ???????? 15 ??????????? ???? ????????? ?????? ?????? ????? ????????? ??????... This would seem to indicate that P??a? was a small king in a forest area, probably in the north of TN. It seems unlikely that someone in the B?na dynasty would be referred to in these terms. The P?lai poems often describe the hero's journey to the north (to or beyond the Ve?ka?am hills, to where even the language has changed), and these areas (modern Rayalaseema) are said to have been inhabited by fierce, marginal chiefs who would have no compunction killing the poor hero who wants to travel there. Here is another one (Akam 226): The gossip you created has grown, and today it is louder than the clamor when Ka??i whose army kills in battle joined with strong and brave P??a? to attack Titta? Ve?iya? whose garland is full, and they heard the sweet sound 15 of the clear ki?ai drum as he held court in U?aiy?r and, instead of fighting, they fled in terror. ????????? ???????? ??????? ????????? ??????? ??????? ?????? ??????? ??????? ?????????? ?????????? ?????, 15 ????? ?????? ????? ??????? ???? ??????????? ??????. The ki?ai drum would be beaten at executions as well at other occasions (Pu?am 78). While this could be describing a great king in the B??a dynasty, it seems to me it is of a piece with Akam 113 above and that P??a? is a minor king. I'd love to see a bit of more conclusive evidence, as P??a? would here seem to be a native Tamil minor king. The Ku?untokai poem is something of a puzzle. P??ar here cannot refer to the king, as it is plural while kings are referred to the singular (as vicciyar perumaka?). I cannot think of any place where the name of a king in the plural is used to refer to his subjects -- C?rar would refer to the Chera monarchs, not the people. To add to your note, UVS says puli n?kku is a lion's gaze (si?h?valokanam -- puli can sometimes mean lion as well as tiger) and that the lion gazes in two directions at once, like the bards, who are non-fighters standing between the armies and looking at them both. The si?h?valokany?ya, according to Apte, is "The maxim of the lion's backward glance. It is used when one casts a retrospective glance at what he has left behind while at the same time he is proceeding, just as the lion, while going onward in search of prey, now and then bends his neck backwards to see if anything is within his reach." If this is the case, then the point of comparison is not the fierceness of the P??ars but the way they look forward to one army and back at the other. The Kalittokai verse could also refer to how the warriors look before them and behind, though I can't find any commentary that says that. I would add that I think the date of the older Sangam anthologies is quite firmly established as the first two centuries AD. The evidence, in my view, is overwhelming. George Hart On Oct 20, 2012, at 10:11 AM, Sudalaimuthu Palaniappan wrote: > Dear Scholars, > > I had earlier written about the chieftain mentioned in Classical Tamil poems as P??a? who ruled in a northern border area of Tami?akam. (See http://listserv.liv.ac.uk/cgi-bin/wa?A2=ind1009&L=INDOLOGY&P=R912&D=0&I=-3 ) Although the poem seemed to refer to a single individual, I had suggested that it referred to the dynasty of the ?Bana? kings whose names had originally been P??a? (in singular) before the variation p->b- in the name took place. > > Now I have found one more Classical Tamil poem that confirms my thesis. > ???????????????????????????alar? > vil ke?u t??ai vicciyar perumaka? > v?ntaro?u poruta ????aip p??ar > puli n?kku u?a? nilai ka??a > kali ke?u ku?ump?r ?rppi?um perit? (Ku?untokai 328.5-8) > > This can be translated as given below: > ?The gossip was louder than the roar of the noisy village in the arid tract, that saw the stance of the P??ar that resembled the look of the tiger, when the chief of Vicciyar of army abounding in archers fought against the kings.? > > In the past, commentators like U. V. Caminathaiyar had interpreted the word ?P??ar? here as the homophon, ?p??ar?, meaning ?bards?. They interpreted the bards as standing between the two armies and looking at both armies as a ?lion? does!. The real meaning of ?look of a tiger? can be seen in the following Kalittokai poem > > vali mu?pi? valle??a y?kkai puli n?kki? > cu??u amai villar curi va?ar pittaiyar > a??am p?rttu alkum ka?u?ka? ma?avar ?(Kalittokai 4.1-3) > > This can be translated as ?the warriors of the arid tract with hard bodies of extraordinary strength, looks of tiger, bows with string/leather(?) coiled around, locks of hair with curls, and fierce eyes, who are on the watch intent on killing?? > > So the ?look of tiger? in Ku?untokai 328.7 should refer to the fierce look of ?P?nar? warriors who were engaged in fighting. It cannot refer to ?p?nar? bards, if they are supposed to be bystanders. The context of the poem indicates that the P??ar had fought on one side. Since the Vicciyar were only minor chieftains engaged in a battle against major kings, we can guess that the P??ar fought fiercely on the side of the underdogs, the Vicciyar. This was probably why their bravery was appreciated by the villagers. > > Interestingly, Akam.226.13 describes the P??an as ?vali mikum mu?pi? p??a?? reminding us of Kalittokai 4.1. > > This identification of P??ar with the B??a kings mentioned in later inscriptions and the epic Ma?im?kalai is very important for the dating of Classical Tamil texts. > > It should be noted that the 5th century T??agu??a inscription refers to the dynasty under consideration as B?had-B??a. Later non-Tamil inscriptions continue to refer to them as B??as while Tamil inscriptions refer to them as V??a- where b- > v-. The name V??a? occurs as the lord of Ci?uku?i, probably a coastal village on the east coast of the P???iyan kingdom. There is an instance in the Maturaikk??ci 203 where the name V??a? seems to refer to B???sura in the context of referring to his fabulous wealth. We should note that the Cilappatik?ram refers more explicitly to B???sura, son of Mah?bali, as V??a? and not as P??a?. The same is true of the Ma?im?kalai also. Clearly if the Classical Tamil texts had been composed in the 5th century CE or later, they would be referring to the P??ar chieftain as V??a? and not P??a?. So the Classical Tamil texts would have been composed earlier than the time when P??a- has changed to B??a. Interestingly, M?m?la??r, the author of Akam 31, has also authored Akam 325, which mentions Pa?a?, the chieftain. As I had discussed earlier, Akam 31 was composed earlier than the Kalabhra rule in Tami?akam. > (http://listserv.liv.ac.uk/cgi-bin/wa?A2=ind0908&L=INDOLOGY&P=R4899&I=-3, http://listserv.liv.ac.uk/cgi-bin/wa?A2=ind0908&L=INDOLOGY&P=R6548&I=-3 ) > > From a historian?s viewpoint, Akam 325 is probably the earliest mention of the B?nas. > > Thanks in advance for your comments > > Regards, > Palaniappan > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From H.J.H.Tieken at HUM.LEIDENUNIV.NL Sun Oct 21 07:53:17 2012 From: H.J.H.Tieken at HUM.LEIDENUNIV.NL (Tieken, H.J.H.) Date: Sun, 21 Oct 12 09:53:17 +0200 Subject: On the Date of Classical Tamil Poems Message-ID: <161227097739.23782.8395125121437224415.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Dear Dr Palaniappan, why don't you look up the verb uRaL (you know which letters I mean with the capitals R and L here) in the Tamil Lexicon? It means, among other things, "alternate, going back- and forwards". As far as I am concerned with this the discussion is closed. I will be "out of station" for the coming 7 days anyhow. Herman -----Original Message----- From: Indology on behalf of Sudalaimuthu Palaniappan Sent: Sun 10/21/2012 2:39 AM To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] On the Date of Classical Tamil Poems Dear Dr. Tieken, I am changing the transliteration convention because I see that my diacritics are not coming through properly as seen in your response. I disagree with UVS's interpretation that the subject of 'kaNTa' was 'pANar'. Indeed so does the commentator perumazaippulavar who says "pANarkaL pulippArvai otta pArvaiyuTaiyarAkiya nilaimaiyin2aik kaNTa". The subject is the village or village people. Clearly UVS found it did not make sense for the village people to cheer the bards when a battle is going on. So he interpreted "kaNTa" as 'kANappaTTa". 'uRaz' here is a particle of comparison and does not mean battle going up and down. Even UVS says nothing about the battle going up and down. In fact, he says, "puliyin2atu pArvaiyai otta nilaiyin2AR kANappaTTa" where "otta" is the gloss for "uRaz". Eva Wilden considers 'uRaz' as a particle of comparison in her translation too. It is clear even she is perplexed with this puli nOkku. She notes, "What does pANar puli nOkku uRaz nilai mean? T. V.G . explains the situation of the comparison as a competition of bards who would exchange challenging looks with each other." T. V. Gopal Iyer's explanation does not make sense. In fact it is silly. Are the bards having a musical competition while the battle is going on? The solution is very simple. The poem does not refer to bards at all. Here 'pANar' refers to the members of the bANa (Bana) dynasty and their fighters. There is clear evidence that the variation of Tamil p- > Ka./Te. b- in the word 'pANa-' has occurred historically. Consider the name of a Saiva devotee pANa-bhadra. He is said to belong to the pANar community of Madurai. He is referred to as 'bANa' in a Kannada inscription of the 12th century in the Dharwar district. See EI, vol. 5, p.254. Palkuriki Somanatha also refers to one 'bANa'. (Somanatha does not seem to have received the information about the devotees from any literary source. He conflates cOza and pANTiya personages, kAviri and vaikai rivers, etc. In the case of bANa, he conflates human bANa's story with that of bANAsura.) With the Kannada and Telugu forms as bANa- , the devotee's name is later fully Sanskritized/hypercorrected as bANabhadra in a Sanskrit composition of Muthaiya Bhagavathar. In a Tamil wedding song sung by Brahmins, the name is pronounced as bANa-. The hypercorrection of 'pANa-' into 'bANa-' has been taken to such extreme lengths that R. Nagaswamy in his recent book, Mirror of Tamil and Sanskrit, says, "...The record states that he was to sing in the presenceof God of the Thiruvidaimarudur temple and direct other Banas for arranging theDancing girls to sing (Thiruvidai marudur - udaiyarukku - padavum, ikkoyilTaliyilarai paduvikkavum ikkoyil Devaradiyarai paduvikkavum Banapperaka). TheBanas were great singers from the Sangam age and we find the Banas, Yalpana wasa close friend of Jnana-sambandar and again we find the Banas were appointed inthe Great temple of Thanjavaur. According to this inscription the serviceshould be added to the temple service and the Bana should be paid one kalamof paddy per day should be paid to the Perariayan for singing. He should beallotted one residence as Banak-kudiyiruppu as before." Thus in the case of the pANa- devotee, Ta. p- > Ka./Te. b- > Skt. b- and has become b- even in modernTamil contexts. In the case of the bANa dynasty, the sound variation has been Ta. p- > Te./Ka./Skt. b- > Ta. v-. Literary Tamil scholars not being familiar with historical records and lacking adequate historical linguistic approach, have misinterpreted the poem thus missing significant historical insights. Regards, Palaniappan -----Original Message----- From: Tieken, H.J.H. To: INDOLOGY Sent: Sat, Oct 20, 2012 2:07 pm Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] On the Date of Classical Tamil Poems Dear Dr Palaniappan I am not sure if the paaNar are directly involved in the fighting, as you seem to think. One can only agree with Swaminathaiyar, when he wrote that they are the bards of the two fighting kings, the veentar and the vicciyar perumakaN respectively. The bards are looking on while the battle goes up and down (uraL nilai). Admittedly, I do not know as yet what to do with puli nookku. The main point is that the bards are the subject (or implied subject, depending on the meaning of puli nookku) of the participle kaNTa. Best Herman Tieken -----Original Message----- From: Indology on behalf of Sudalaimuthu Palaniappan Sent: Sat 10/20/2012 7:11 PM To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Subject: [INDOLOGY] On the Date of Classical Tamil Poems DearScholars, I hadearlier written about the chieftain mentioned in Classical Tamil poems as Pa?a? who ruled in a northern border area of Tami?akam. (See http://listserv.liv.ac.uk/cgi-bin/wa?A2=ind1009&L=INDOLOGY&P=R912&D=0&I=-3) Although the poemseemed to refer to a single individual, I had suggested that it referred to thedynasty of the 'Bana' kings whose names had originally been Pa?a? (in singular) before the variation p->b- in thename took place. Now I havefound one more Classical Tamil poem that confirms my thesis. ...........................alare vil ke?u ta?ai vicciyar perumaka? ventaro?u poruta ?a??aip pa?ar puli nokkuu?a? nilai ka??a kali ke?u ku?umpur arppi?umperite (Ku?untokai 328.5-8) Thiscan be translated as given below: "The gossip was louder thanthe roar of the noisy village in the arid tract, that saw the stance of the Pa?arthat resembled the look of the tiger, when the chief of Vicciyar of armyabounding in archers fought against the kings." Inthe past, commentators like U. V. Caminathaiyarhad interpreted the word "Pa?ar" here as the homophon,'pa?ar',meaning 'bards'. They interpreted thebards as standing between the two armies and looking at both armies as a 'lion'does!. The real meaning of 'lookof a tiger' can be seen in the following Kalittokai poem valimu?pi? valle??a yakkai puli nokki? cu??uamai villar curi va?ar pittaiyar a??am parttu alkum ka?u?ka? ma?avar .(Kalittokai 4.1-3) This canbe translated as "the warriors of the arid tract with hard bodies ofextraordinary strength, looks of tiger, bows with string/leather(?) coiledaround, locks of hair with curls, and fierce eyes, who are on the watch intenton killing." So the 'lookof tiger' in Ku?untokai 328.7 should refer to the fierce look of 'Panar'warriors who were engaged in fighting. It cannot refer to 'panar' bards, ifthey are supposed to be bystanders. The context of the poem indicatesthat the Pa?ar had fought on one side. Since the Vicciyar wereonly minor chieftains engaged in a battle against major kings, we can guessthat the Pa?ar fought fiercely on the side of the underdogs,the Vicciyar. This was probably why their bravery was appreciated by thevillagers. Interestingly,Akam.226.13 describes the Pa?an as "vali mikum mu?pi? pa?a?" reminding us of Kalittokai 4.1. Thisidentification of Pa?ar with the Ba?akings mentioned in later inscriptions and the epic Ma?imekalai is very important for the dating of Classical Tamil texts. It shouldbe noted that the 5th century Ta?agu??a inscription refers to the dynasty under consideration as B?had-Ba?a. Later non-Tamil inscriptions continue to referto them as Ba?as while Tamil inscriptions refer to them as Va?a- where b- > v-. The name Va?a? occurs as the lord of Ci?uku?i,probably a coastal village on the east coast of the Pa??iyan kingdom. There is aninstance in the Maturaikka?ci 203 where the name Va?a? seems to refer to Ba?asurain the context of referring to his fabulous wealth. We should note that theCilappatikaram refers more explicitly to Ba?asura,son of Mahabali, as Va?a? and not as Pa?a?. The same is true of the Ma?imekalaialso. Clearly if the ClassicalTamil texts had been composed in the 5th century CE or later, they would bereferring to the Pa?ar chieftain as Va?a? and not Pa?a?. So the Classical Tamiltexts would have been composed earlier than the time when Pa?a- has changed toBa?a. Interestingly, Mamula?ar, the author of Akam 31, has also authored Akam325, which mentions Pa?a?, thechieftain. As I had discussed earlier, Akam 31 was composed earlier than theKalabhra rule in Tami?akam. (http://listserv.liv.ac.uk/cgi-bin/wa?A2=ind0908&L=INDOLOGY&P=R4899&I=-3,http://listserv.liv.ac.uk/cgi-bin/wa?A2=ind0908&L=INDOLOGY&P=R6548&I=-3) Froma historian's viewpoint, Akam 325 is probably the earliest mention of theBanas. Thanks inadvance for your comments Regards, Palaniappan -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lyne.bansat-boudon at EPHE.SORBONNE.FR Sun Oct 21 17:02:09 2012 From: lyne.bansat-boudon at EPHE.SORBONNE.FR (Lyne BANSAT-BOUDON) Date: Sun, 21 Oct 12 19:02:09 +0200 Subject: NS? (Re: [INDOLOGY] What about thirty-seven? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227097747.23782.17636438357440432992.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Dear Jean-Luc, My apologies for answering quite (quite) late to your question. I wonder whether it is still a topical subject for you? At least, I can give an element of answer : according to the Abhinavabhaaratii, Abhinavagupta's commentary on the Naa.tya"saastra ? see, especially, the mangala of the commentary on the first chapter ?the number 36 is justified by, and correlated with, the number of the tattvas in the nondualistic "saivism of Kashmir (where there are 36 tattvas, the system adding a superstructure of 11 tattvas to the 25 tattvas of the Saa.mkhya). Nevertheless, some editions of the texts present a 37th chapter, also commented by Abhinavagupta! On those questions, allow me to refer to my work: Po?tique du th??tre indien. Lectures du Naa.tya"saastra. Paris, ?cole Fran?aise d?Extr?me-Orient (? Publications de l?EFEO ?, 169), 1992, p. 27, and notes 39 and 40. Lyne Bansat-Boudon Directeur d'?tudes, Ecole pratique des hautes ?tudes, V?me section Le 20 oct. 10 ? 19:10, Jean-Luc CHEVILLARD a ?crit : > Dear Matthew Kapstein, > > thanks for your comment (and thanks for forwarding Jonathan Silk's > comment) > > Adding one more brain-storming style question, I would be > interested in hearing from you or from others about the logic > hidden behind the division of the /Nātyaśāstra/ into > 36 chapters or into 37 chapters. > > Is it known who preferred having 36 chapters and who preferred > having 37? > > Did the preferrence have anything to do with the religion of the > "editor/transmitter"? > > Sorry if all these questions appear idle but I believe that in some > contexts the only way to (discreetly) "make a statement" was to > chose a different number :-) > > -- Jean-Luc Chevillard (planet Earth) > > > > On 20/10/2010 14:57, mkapstei at UCHICAGO.EDU wrote: >> In my recent posting on 37 I was subject to >> an error of memory (thanks to Jonathan Silk for >> discretely pointing it out to me). The group >> of Buddhas of contrition according to the >> Triskandhakasuutra numbers 35, not 37, and it >> was this that Wayman sought to explain. >> 37 is nevertheless numerologically important >> in Buddhism: it is the number of the >> bodhipak.sadharma-s, the "factors allied with >> awakening." >> Matthew T. Kapstein >> Numata Visiting Professor of Buddhist Studies >> The University of Chicago Divinity School >> Directeur d'?tudes >> Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes, Paris -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From palaniappa at AOL.COM Mon Oct 22 04:21:46 2012 From: palaniappa at AOL.COM (Sudalaimuthu Palaniappan) Date: Mon, 22 Oct 12 00:21:46 -0400 Subject: On the Date of Classical Tamil Poems Message-ID: <161227097757.23782.12065216217115312481.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Dear George, Please see the attached inscription. What can one say about the perumpANan here? Is he a pANan2 or bANan2? Which comes first - perumpANan2 or bRhad-bANa? The modifier 'peru' is found in other names such as perumuttaraiyar (mentioned in nAlaTiyAr), ko-p-peru?-cOzan2, peru?-cEral, etc. The title peru- is very common in Tamil. It was also used in connection with different professions as in perumpANan2 and perunAvican2. Then how about the title bRhad in bRhadbANa? First of all, the title bRhad-bANa for a dynasty is very unusual. The only other so-called dynastic title I know of, bRhatphAlAyana, is not a dynastic title at all. In fact, in the case of bRhatphAlAyanas and sAlankAyanas, according to K. A. Nilakanta Sastri, the scholars have simply used the gotra names in the absence of dynastic names. (Early History of the Andhra Country, p.151, n.1). Moreover, it is only in the tALagunda inscription we find the occurrence of 'bRhad-bANa'. Everywhere else in non-Tamil inscriptions, the members of the dynasty are called bANarAja, bANAdhirAja-. In other words we only find bANa- but not bRhad-bANa. But in Tamil we find many instances of perumpANaraicar, permpANan, etc. This leads one to infer that the author of the tALagunda inscription was simply translating the name perumpANan2 into Sanskrit. Since in Tamil -p- following nasal -m- is pronounced as -b-, the author of tALagunda has rendered the first component as bRhad and kept the second part as bANa. This suggests that the original form of the dynastic name should have been Ta. pANan2. It is also possible that in the Kannada and Telugu areas 'pANa-' was being pronounced as 'bANa' either independently or influenced by the pronunciation of '- pANan2' in perumpANan2 as '-bANan2' . Once the stand-alone form 'bANa' becomes widespread, a re-branding using a Sanskrit mythological pedigree tracing the lineage to mahAbali, father of bANAsura is carried out with the dynastic title as 'bANa'. Later when this form 'bANa' is imported back into Tamil, Skt. bANa > Ta. vANa-. In the book "ceGkam naTukaRkaL" inscription no. 1971/54 of the 2nd year of Narasimhavarman II mentions a vANakO atiraicar. In the same collection, no. 1971/73 of the 10th year of the same king mentions a perumpANatiyaraicar. The phrase "ezAap pANan2" further points to the homophon indicating bard as well as the chieftain suggesting in this case that the chieftain was called 'pANan2' too with word-initial p-. As for the domicile and area controlled by the pANan2/bANa chiefs, it has varied historically. They might have started near Gingee where the paRaiyan2paTTu inscription is found mentioning 'pANAtu'. (At least one variant of akam.155 mentions pANATu. See Early Tamil Epigraphy, p. 629 for a discussion of this.) Then they could have moved north so that by the 4th century they are found near zrIparvata hill. After serving the Chalukya, Pallava, and Chola dynasties, in the 13th century, we see bANa chieftains with titles such as mAvali vANAdirAyan, mAbali vANarAyar, etc., controlling parts of the pANTiya country under the pANTiyas. As a parallel case, it should be noted that a branch of the Cholas, Telugu Cholas, were controlling areas around Sonepur in Orissa in the 12th century issuing inscriptions in Sanskrit tracing their descent to Chola karikAla and uRaiyUr (EI 28, p. 286) progressively moving northeast from the area to the north of the Tamil country over several centuries. In my opinion, the pANan2 mentioned in Akam 113 and 226 referred to one or more members of the same lineage later called the bANas. kaTTi mentioned in akam 226 is also mentioned in akam 44 as well as kuRuntokai 11. See below. tun2 arum kaTum tiRal kaGkan2 kaTTi (akam. 44.8) pal vEl kaTTi nal nATTu umpar mozipeyar tEettar Ayin2um (kuRu. 11.7-8) We should take the dynatic names mentioned here as individuals belonging the dynasty being mentioned. Like the bAnas, these dynasties were also in the northern border of the Tamil country. 'kaGkan' referred to the Western Ganga dynasty. Vicciyar were also in the northern area. So it is not surprising that pANar allied themselves with vicci or kaTTi. The use of the plural form pANar in kuRu. 328 is of the same nature as in akam. 336 below. mAri ampin2 mazai tOl cOzar vil INTu kuRumpin2 vallattup puRa miLai Ariyar paTaiyin2 uTaika en2 nEr iRai mun2kai vIgkiya vaLaiyE (akam. 336.20-23) Here 'cOzar' (in plural) could refer to the cOza fighters. Similarly, you can see 'cOzar' used below referring to the cOza fighters koRRac cOzar kogkarp paNIiyar veNkOTTu yAn2aip pOor kizavOn2 pazaiyan2 vEl vAyttan2n2a nin2 (naR. 10.6-8) So in kuRu. 328, pANar (bANa) forces would have joined the battle on the side of the vicciyar who might be led by their chief, 'perumakan2'. It is possible the pANan2 chief might have sent his forces without joining them. As for non-fighters standing between the two armies, I consider it highly unlikely they were standing in between the fighting armies. They have to be really standing on the side while the battle is raging and in that case they will only move their gaze from side to side and not front and back. So I do not think simhAvalokanyAya will be valid here. At least if the description applies to the fighters, then their behavior will parallel the warriors whether it is their fierce look or looking forward and backward, So, the looking persons should be fighters and not bards. Regards, Palaniappan -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Perumpanan_0004.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 507225 bytes Desc: not available URL: From jpo at UTS.CC.UTEXAS.EDU Mon Oct 22 13:53:14 2012 From: jpo at UTS.CC.UTEXAS.EDU (Patrick Olivelle) Date: Mon, 22 Oct 12 08:53:14 -0500 Subject: pedagogy In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227097771.23782.9302235534382948687.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Hartmut Scharfe has written a book on Education in Ancient India. On Oct 22, 2012, at 8:36 AM, patrick mccartney wrote: > Dear List, > > I am interested in any mention of traditional pedagogy in India, particularly with regards to cultural reproduction in vidyAlayas and/or of any ethnographic studies on the same. > > > -- > All the best, > > Patrick McCartney > > PhD Candidate > School of Culture, History & Language > College of the Asia-Pacific > The Australian National University > Canberra, Australia, 0200 > Rm 4.30 Baldessin Precinct Building > > skype - psdmccartney > W- +61 2 6125 4323 > M - +91 9714120772 > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AfpCc8G_cUw&feature=related -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From glhart at BERKELEY.EDU Mon Oct 22 19:43:49 2012 From: glhart at BERKELEY.EDU (George Hart) Date: Mon, 22 Oct 12 12:43:49 -0700 Subject: On the Date of Classical Tamil Poems In-Reply-To: <8CF7E23E15AFC27-240C-15AEB@webmail-m153.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <161227097793.23782.1997460243928536179.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Dear Palaniappan, I think you have made a good case for P??a? and B??a, and especially like the perump??a? / b?hadb??a, as even the alliteration works. I hope you publish this, as it is significant, I think. I am still not convinced by what you say about p??ar in the Ku?untokai poem -- after reading many Sangam poems and working through much of the Akananuru, your interpretation just doesn't sound right to me. Of course, that doesn't mean you aren't correct, but there's really no way to tell. If the P??ar were standing to one side (or, more likely, in the middle of one side playing their drums), and a battle started, they'd still be looking in front and behind them to avoid being killed. Thanks for an intriguing and informative analysis. One remark: Why not use roman unicode, as it's very hard to read the transliteration that eschews diacritic marks. I believe every OS and email program is capable of handling 8-bit unicode. George On Oct 21, 2012, at 9:21 PM, Sudalaimuthu Palaniappan wrote: > Dear George, > > Please see the attached inscription. What can one say about the perumpANan here? Is he a pANan2 or bANan2? Which comes first - perumpANan2 or bRhad-bANa? The modifier 'peru' is found in other names such as perumuttaraiyar (mentioned in nAlaTiyAr), ko-p-peru?-cOzan2, peru?-cEral, etc. The title peru- is very common in Tamil. It was also used in connection with different professions as in perumpANan2 and perunAvican2. Then how about the title bRhad in bRhadbANa? > > First of all, the title bRhad-bANa for a dynasty is very unusual. The only other so-called dynastic title I know of, bRhatphAlAyana, is not a dynastic title at all. In fact, in the case of bRhatphAlAyanas and sAlankAyanas, according to K. A. Nilakanta Sastri, the scholars have simply used the gotra names in the absence of dynastic names. (Early History of the Andhra Country, p.151, n.1). Moreover, it is only in the tALagunda inscription we find the occurrence of 'bRhad-bANa'. Everywhere else in non-Tamil inscriptions, the members of the dynasty are called bANarAja, bANAdhirAja-. In other words we only find bANa- but not bRhad-bANa. But in Tamil we find many instances of perumpANaraicar, permpANan, etc. > > This leads one to infer that the author of the tALagunda inscription was simply translating the name perumpANan2 into Sanskrit. Since in Tamil -p- following nasal -m- is pronounced as -b-, the author of tALagunda has rendered the first component as bRhad and kept the second part as bANa. This suggests that the original form of the dynastic name should have been Ta. pANan2. It is also possible that in the Kannada and Telugu areas 'pANa-' was being pronounced as 'bANa' either independently or influenced by the pronunciation of '- pANan2' in perumpANan2 as '-bANan2' . Once the stand-alone form 'bANa' becomes widespread, a re-branding using a Sanskrit mythological pedigree tracing the lineage to mahAbali, father of bANAsura is carried out with the dynastic title as 'bANa'. Later when this form 'bANa' is imported back into Tamil, Skt. bANa > Ta. vANa-. > > In the book "ceGkam naTukaRkaL" inscription no. 1971/54 of the 2nd year of Narasimhavarman II mentions a vANakO atiraicar. In the same collection, no. 1971/73 of the 10th year of the same king mentions a perumpANatiyaraicar. > > The phrase "ezAap pANan2" further points to the homophon indicating bard as well as the chieftain suggesting in this case that the chieftain was called 'pANan2' too with word-initial p-. > > As for the domicile and area controlled by the pANan2/bANa chiefs, it has varied historically. They might have started near Gingee where the paRaiyan2paTTu inscription is found mentioning 'pANAtu'. (At least one variant of akam.155 mentions pANATu. See Early Tamil Epigraphy, p. 629 for a discussion of this.) Then they could have moved north so that by the 4th century they are found near zrIparvata hill. After serving the Chalukya, Pallava, and Chola dynasties, in the 13th century, we see bANa chieftains with titles such as mAvali vANAdirAyan, mAbali vANarAyar, etc., controlling parts of the pANTiya country under the pANTiyas. As a parallel case, it should be noted that a branch of the Cholas, Telugu Cholas, were controlling areas around Sonepur in Orissa in the 12th century issuing inscriptions in Sanskrit tracing their descent to Chola karikAla and uRaiyUr (EI 28, p. 286) progressively moving northeast from the area to the north of the Tamil country over several centuries. > > In my opinion, the pANan2 mentioned in Akam 113 and 226 referred to one or more members of the same lineage later called the bANas. > > kaTTi mentioned in akam 226 is also mentioned in akam 44 as well as kuRuntokai 11. See below. > tun2 arum kaTum tiRal kaGkan2 kaTTi (akam. 44.8) > pal vEl kaTTi nal nATTu umpar > mozipeyar tEettar Ayin2um (kuRu. 11.7-8) > > We should take the dynatic names mentioned here as individuals belonging the dynasty being mentioned. Like the bAnas, these dynasties were also in the northern border of the Tamil country. 'kaGkan' referred to the Western Ganga dynasty. Vicciyar were also in the northern area. So it is not surprising that pANar allied themselves with vicci or kaTTi. > The use of the plural form pANar in kuRu. 328 is of the same nature as in akam. 336 below. > mAri ampin2 mazai tOl cOzar > vil INTu kuRumpin2 vallattup puRa miLai > Ariyar paTaiyin2 uTaika en2 > nEr iRai mun2kai vIgkiya vaLaiyE (akam. 336.20-23) > Here 'cOzar' (in plural) could refer to the cOza fighters. > Similarly, you can see 'cOzar' used below referring to the cOza fighters > > koRRac cOzar kogkarp paNIiyar > > > veNkOTTu yAn2aip pOor kizavOn2 > > > pazaiyan2 vEl vAyttan2n2a nin2 (naR. 10.6-8) > > > So in kuRu. 328, pANar (bANa) forces would have joined the battle on the side of the vicciyar who might be led by their chief, 'perumakan2'. It is possible the pANan2 chief might have sent his forces without joining them. > As for non-fighters standing between the two armies, I consider it highly unlikely they were standing in between the fighting armies. They have to be really standing on the side while the battle is raging and in that case they will only move their gaze from side to side and not front and back. So I do not think simhAvalokanyAya will be valid here. At least if the description applies to the fighters, then their behavior will parallel the warriors whether it is their fierce look or looking forward and backward, So, the looking persons should be fighters and not bards. > Regards, > Palaniappan > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From slindqui at MAIL.SMU.EDU Mon Oct 22 14:56:24 2012 From: slindqui at MAIL.SMU.EDU (Lindquist, Steven) Date: Mon, 22 Oct 12 14:56:24 +0000 Subject: pedagogy In-Reply-To: <98EA4E98-ECFC-4782-8860-5CFC5756C940@uts.cc.utexas.edu> Message-ID: <161227097775.23782.16054234896088129358.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> See also RK Mookerji, Ancient Indian Education (Motilal Banarsidass, 1989; reprint of 1951). STEVEN LINDQUIST, PH.D. ASSOCIATE PROFESSOR, RELIGIOUS STUDIES DIRECTOR, ASIAN STUDIES _____________ Southern Methodist University PO Box 750202 | Dallas | TX | 75275 http://faculty.smu.edu/slindqui From: Patrick Olivelle > Reply-To: Patrick Olivelle > Date: Monday, October 22, 2012 8:53 AM To: Indology > Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] pedagogy Hartmut Scharfe has written a book on Education in Ancient India. On Oct 22, 2012, at 8:36 AM, patrick mccartney wrote: Dear List, I am interested in any mention of traditional pedagogy in India, particularly with regards to cultural reproduction in vidyAlayas and/or of any ethnographic studies on the same. -- All the best, Patrick McCartney PhD Candidate School of Culture, History & Language College of the Asia-Pacific The Australian National University Canberra, Australia, 0200 Rm 4.30 Baldessin Precinct Building skype - psdmccartney W- +61 2 6125 4323 M - +91 9714120772 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AfpCc8G_cUw&feature=related From psdmccartney at GMAIL.COM Mon Oct 22 13:36:30 2012 From: psdmccartney at GMAIL.COM (patrick mccartney) Date: Mon, 22 Oct 12 19:06:30 +0530 Subject: pedagogy Message-ID: <161227097768.23782.9297954925976406803.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Dear List, I am interested in any mention of traditional pedagogy in India, particularly with regards to cultural reproduction in vidyAlayas and/or of any ethnographic studies on the same. -- All the best, Patrick McCartney PhD Candidate School of Culture, History & Language College of the Asia-Pacific The Australian National University Canberra, Australia, 0200 Rm 4.30 Baldessin Precinct Building skype - psdmccartney W- +61 2 6125 4323 M - +91 9714120772 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AfpCc8G_cUw&feature=related -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From garzilli at ASIATICA.ORG Mon Oct 22 18:48:56 2012 From: garzilli at ASIATICA.ORG (Enrica Garzilli) Date: Mon, 22 Oct 12 20:48:56 +0200 Subject: New Book Message-ID: <161227097785.23782.13572470498575209775.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> [Sorry for crossposting] Dear Friends and Colleagues, I am very pleased to invite you to the launch of my book_The Explorer of the Duce: The Adventures of Giuseppe Tucci and Italian Foreign Policy in the Orient from Mussolini to Andreotti: With the Correspondence of Giulio Andreotti_, 2 vols., Rome-Milan: Memori editrice and Asiatica Association, Sept. 2012. Vol. 1, pp. LII + 685; Vol. 2, pp. XIV + 726. If you happen to be in Rome, I will be very happy to know you When: Oct. 25, 2012, 6 pm Where: Rome, Societ? Geografica Italiana, Aula ?Giuseppe Dalla Vedova?, Palazzetto Mattei, Villa Celimontana, Via della Navicella 12. Light refreshments will follow. More info on the book: Asiatica Association http://bit.ly/TaM3wk All the best, Enrica ---------------------- Dr Enrica Garzilli Harvard '95 Editor-in-Chief, IJTS & JSAWS -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: invito_Tucci1.pdf Type: application/pdf Size: 606994 bytes Desc: not available URL: From palaniappa at AOL.COM Tue Oct 23 04:13:15 2012 From: palaniappa at AOL.COM (Sudalaimuthu Palaniappan) Date: Tue, 23 Oct 12 00:13:15 -0400 Subject: On the Date of Classical Tamil Poems In-Reply-To: <28A1CD5D-93FC-47B6-BC06-4E4704C61697@berkeley.edu> Message-ID: <161227097801.23782.10331761977006671867.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Dear George, I appreciate your comments. As for the fonts, I like to use the diacritic fonts too whenever possible. In my first post, I did use the diacritic fonts. But, when Dr. Tieken replied to my post the diacritic fonts in my earlier post showed up as question marks in my Mac. Since there were not too many participants in the thread, to be safe, I resorted to the transliteration I used. Thanks Regards, Palaniappan -----Original Message----- From: George Hart To: INDOLOGY Sent: Mon, Oct 22, 2012 3:53 pm Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] On the Date of Classical Tamil Poems Dear Palaniappan, I think you have made a good case for P??a? and B??a, and especially like the perump??a? / b?hadb??a, as even the alliteration works. I hope you publish this, as it is significant, I think. I am still not convinced by what you say about p??ar in the Ku?untokai poem -- after reading many Sangam poems and working through much of the Akananuru, your interpretation just doesn't sound right to me. Of course, that doesn't mean you aren't correct, but there's really no way to tell. If the P??ar were standing to one side (or, more likely, in the middle of one side playing their drums), and a battle started, they'd still be looking in front and behind them to avoid being killed. Thanks for an intriguing and informative analysis. One remark: Why not use roman unicode, as it's very hard to read the transliteration that eschews diacritic marks. I believe every OS and email program is capable of handling 8-bit unicode. George On Oct 21, 2012, at 9:21 PM, Sudalaimuthu Palaniappan wrote: Dear George, Please see the attached inscription. What can one say about the perumpANan here? Is he a pANan2 or bANan2? Which comes first - perumpANan2 or bRhad-bANa? The modifier 'peru' is found in other names such as perumuttaraiyar (mentioned in nAlaTiyAr), ko-p-peru?-cOzan2, peru?-cEral, etc. The title peru- is very common in Tamil. It was also used in connection with different professions as in perumpANan2 and perunAvican2. Then how about the title bRhad in bRhadbANa? First of all, the title bRhad-bANa for a dynasty is very unusual. The only other so-called dynastic title I know of, bRhatphAlAyana, is not a dynastic title at all. In fact, in the case of bRhatphAlAyanas and sAlankAyanas, according to K. A. Nilakanta Sastri, the scholars have simply used the gotra names in the absence of dynastic names. (Early History of the Andhra Country, p.151, n.1). Moreover, it is only in the tALagunda inscription we find the occurrence of 'bRhad-bANa'. Everywhere else in non-Tamil inscriptions, the members of the dynasty are called bANarAja, bANAdhirAja-. In other words we only find bANa- but not bRhad-bANa. But in Tamil we find many instances of perumpANaraicar, permpANan, etc. This leads one to infer that the author of the tALagunda inscription was simply translating the name perumpANan2 into Sanskrit. Since in Tamil -p- following nasal -m- is pronounced as -b-, the author of tALagunda has rendered the first component as bRhad and kept the second part as bANa. This suggests that the original form of the dynastic name should have been Ta. pANan2. It is also possible that in the Kannada and Telugu areas 'pANa-' was being pronounced as 'bANa' either independently or influenced by the pronunciation of '- pANan2' in perumpANan2 as '-bANan2' . Once the stand-alone form 'bANa' becomes widespread, a re-branding using a Sanskrit mythological pedigree tracing the lineage to mahAbali, father of bANAsura is carried out with the dynastic title as 'bANa'. Later when this form 'bANa' is imported back into Tamil, Skt. bANa > Ta. vANa-. In the book "ceGkam naTukaRkaL" inscription no. 1971/54 of the 2nd year of Narasimhavarman II mentions a vANakO atiraicar. In the same collection, no. 1971/73 of the 10th year of the same king mentions a perumpANatiyaraicar. The phrase "ezAap pANan2" further points to the homophon indicating bard as well as the chieftain suggesting in this case that the chieftain was called 'pANan2' too with word-initial p-. As for the domicile and area controlled by the pANan2/bANa chiefs, it has varied historically. They might have started near Gingee where the paRaiyan2paTTu inscription is found mentioning 'pANAtu'. (At least one variant of akam.155 mentions pANATu. See Early Tamil Epigraphy, p. 629 for a discussion of this.) Then they could have moved north so that by the 4th century they are found near zrIparvata hill. After serving the Chalukya, Pallava, and Chola dynasties, in the 13th century, we see bANa chieftains with titles such as mAvali vANAdirAyan, mAbali vANarAyar, etc., controlling parts of the pANTiya country under the pANTiyas. As a parallel case, it should be noted that a branch of the Cholas, Telugu Cholas, were controlling areas around Sonepur in Orissa in the 12th century issuing inscriptions in Sanskrit tracing their descent to Chola karikAla and uRaiyUr (EI 28, p. 286) progressively moving northeast from the area to the north of the Tamil country over several centuries. In my opinion, the pANan2 mentioned in Akam 113 and 226 referred to one or more members of the same lineage later called the bANas. kaTTi mentioned in akam 226 is also mentioned in akam 44 as well as kuRuntokai 11. See below. tun2 arum kaTum tiRal kaGkan2 kaTTi (akam. 44.8) pal vEl kaTTi nal nATTu umpar mozipeyar tEettar Ayin2um (kuRu. 11.7-8) We should take the dynatic names mentioned here as individuals belonging the dynasty being mentioned. Like the bAnas, these dynasties were also in the northern border of the Tamil country. 'kaGkan' referred to the Western Ganga dynasty. Vicciyar were also in the northern area. So it is not surprising that pANar allied themselves with vicci or kaTTi. The use of the plural form pANar in kuRu. 328 is of the same nature as in akam. 336 below. mAri ampin2 mazai tOl cOzar vil INTu kuRumpin2 vallattup puRa miLai Ariyar paTaiyin2 uTaika en2 nEr iRai mun2kai vIgkiya vaLaiyE (akam. 336.20-23) Here 'cOzar' (in plural) could refer to the cOza fighters. Similarly, you can see 'cOzar' used below referring to the cOza fighters koRRac cOzar kogkarp paNIiyar veNkOTTu yAn2aip pOor kizavOn2 pazaiyan2 vEl vAyttan2n2a nin2 (naR. 10.6-8) So in kuRu. 328, pANar (bANa) forces would have joined the battle on the side of the vicciyar who might be led by their chief, 'perumakan2'. It is possible the pANan2 chief might have sent his forces without joining them. As for non-fighters standing between the two armies, I consider it highly unlikely they were standing in between the fighting armies. They have to be really standing on the side while the battle is raging and in that case they will only move their gaze from side to side and not front and back. So I do not think simhAvalokanyAya will be valid here. At least if the description applies to the fighters, then their behavior will parallel the warriors whether it is their fierce look or looking forward and backward, So, the looking persons should be fighters and not bards. Regards, Palaniappan -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dbhattacharya200498 at YAHOO.COM Tue Oct 23 02:42:23 2012 From: dbhattacharya200498 at YAHOO.COM (Dipak Bhattacharya) Date: Tue, 23 Oct 12 10:42:23 +0800 Subject: pedagogy In-Reply-To: <98EA4E98-ECFC-4782-8860-5CFC5756C940@uts.cc.utexas.edu> Message-ID: <161227097797.23782.16660324393809020341.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Does it take electronic mails longer time to reach my computer? According to its time indication in my Inbox Patrick McCartney's mail was posted 23rd 6.35am. Contrast the time mentioned below. Best DB? ________________________________ From: Patrick Olivelle To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Sent: Monday, 22 October 2012 7:23 PM Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] pedagogy Hartmut Scharfe has written a book on Education in Ancient India.? On Oct 22, 2012, at 8:36 AM, patrick mccartney wrote: Dear List, > >I am interested in any mention of traditional pedagogy in India, particularly with regards to cultural reproduction in vidyAlayas and/or of any ethnographic studies on the same. > > >-- >All the best, > >Patrick McCartney > >PhD Candidate >School of Culture, History & Language >College of the Asia-Pacific >The Australian National University >Canberra, Australia, 0200 >Rm 4.30 Baldessin Precinct Building > >skype - psdmccartney >W- +61 2 6125 4323 >M - +91 9714120772 > >http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AfpCc8G_cUw&feature=related > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tubb at UCHICAGO.EDU Tue Oct 23 20:19:32 2012 From: tubb at UCHICAGO.EDU (Gary Tubb) Date: Tue, 23 Oct 12 15:19:32 -0500 Subject: Visiting Chair at the University of Chicago Message-ID: <161227097808.23782.10128019138608390450.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Appended below is the announcement of a new visiting chair at the University of Chicago. Please note that the search committee is accepting suggestions of names to be considered for the position, as well as applications from interested persons. Yours, Gary Tubb. -- Gary Tubb, Professor and Chair Department of South Asian Languages and Civilizations The University of Chicago [Announcement follows:] The University of Chicago is pleased to announce the establishment of "The Indian Ministry of Culture Vivekananda Chair," a visiting professorship that will allow the University to welcome a senior scholar of significant academic distinction in a field of study promoted by Swami Vivekananda. The holder of this distinguished Chair will remain in residence for one quarter of the academic year to teach, conduct research, and engage with the intellectual community of the University. The Chair is made possible by a generous grant from the Ministry of Culture, Government of India, and is intended to honor the life and legacy of Swami Vivekananda by promoting the fields of study most relevant to his teachings and philosophies, such as human values, Indian philosophy, and movements for social change.The Chair is also intended to further the study of Indian culture in the United States; to advance the understanding of the history, culture and people of India; to create more knowledge about Indian society; and to instruct new generations of students. The Committee on Southern Asian Studies at the University of Chicago welcomes suggestions of candidates whose research work falls into one or more of the fields of study most relevant to the teachings and legacy of Swami Vivekananda (human values, social change, and Indian philosophy), and who possess demonstrated records of scholarly excellence and pedagogical accomplishment. Each incumbent will ideally hold the position for a period of two years, returning each year for one quarter.In addition to the expected academic activities on campus, the holder will give each year a public presentation on a topic that exemplifies, honors, and promotes the legacy of Swami Vivekananda. Support for the position includes salary, travel costs, local accommodation, and coverage of expenses connected with the annual presentation. To nominate an interested or proposed candidate, please send a letter giving the nominee's name and field of study and explaining the nominee's scholarly eminence. To directly apply for the position, please send a cover letter explaining the field of study and interest, together with a CV. Nominations or applications should be sent by email to The Indian Ministry of Culture Vivekananda Chair Search Committee at the following address: vivekananda at uchicago.edu Submissions should, wherever possible, be in the form of a single PDF document. The University of Chicago is an Affirmative Action/Equal Opportunity Employer. [:End of Announcement] -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From will.sweetman at GMAIL.COM Tue Oct 23 20:04:10 2012 From: will.sweetman at GMAIL.COM (Will Sweetman) Date: Wed, 24 Oct 12 09:04:10 +1300 Subject: Book announcement Message-ID: <161227097804.23782.16491455112757506616.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> I'm pleased to announce the publication of a book which may be of interest to some members of the list. The book, written together with R. Ilakkuvan, is a study of the library of Tamil manuscripts collected by Bartholom?us Ziegenbalg, a Lutheran missionary in South India from 1706-1719. Further details are available here: http://www.ifpindia.org/Bibliotheca-Malabarica-Bartholomaus-Ziegenbalg-s-Tamil-Library.html Best wishes Will Sweetman -- Dr Will Sweetman Senior Lecturer in Asian Religions Department of Theology and Religion University of Otago P.O. Box 56 Dunedin New Zealand +64 3 479 8793 will.sweetman at otago.ac.nz http://www.otago.ac.nz/religion/staff/sweetman.php -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jpo at UTS.CC.UTEXAS.EDU Wed Oct 24 20:33:41 2012 From: jpo at UTS.CC.UTEXAS.EDU (Patrick Olivelle) Date: Wed, 24 Oct 12 15:33:41 -0500 Subject: Professor Ikari Message-ID: <161227097816.23782.5342332024626759171.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> It appears that all the email addresses I have for Professor Yasuke Ikari do not work. Could anyone -- including Professor Ikari -- who has his latest address share it with me? Thanks. Patrick Olivelle From mailmealakendudas at REDIFFMAIL.COM Wed Oct 24 15:59:47 2012 From: mailmealakendudas at REDIFFMAIL.COM (alakendu das) Date: Wed, 24 Oct 12 15:59:47 +0000 Subject: etymology of the word 'DRAVIDA" Message-ID: <161227097811.23782.1505397086303968426.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> To All, I would be benefitted if anybody can enlighten me about the etymology of the word 'Dravida' as used in naming the race DRAVIDIAN. Thanking You Yours faithfully ALAKENDU DAS Post-Graduate,INDOLOGY -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From gruenen at SUB.UNI-GOETTINGEN.DE Wed Oct 24 16:11:01 2012 From: gruenen at SUB.UNI-GOETTINGEN.DE (Gruenendahl, Reinhold) Date: Wed, 24 Oct 12 16:11:01 +0000 Subject: AW: [INDOLOGY] Amarakosa commentary In-Reply-To: <044C4CE033BD474EBE2ACACE8E4B1D941479D57A@UM-excdag-a02.um.gwdg.de> Message-ID: <161227097814.23782.3429735226623521071.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> The four volumes of the TSS edition, gathered from various sources, can now be downloaded from here: https://opac.sub.uni-goettingen.de/CMD?ACT=SRCHA&IKT=1016&SRT=YOP&TRM=namalinganusasana%3F+trivandrum (plain image PDFs with index/bookmarks) ________________________________________ Von: Indology [INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk]" im Auftrag von "Michael Hahn [hahn.m at T-ONLINE.DE] Gesendet: Mittwoch, 26. September 2012 13:10 An: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Betreff: [INDOLOGY] Amarakosa commentary Dear all, Colleagues have been so incredibly helpful with regards to scanned books and papers. That is why I dare to ask whether some can provide me with a digital copy of the following work The N?mali?g?nus?sana of Amarasimha with The Commentary T?k?sarvaswa of Vandyaghat?ya- Sarv?nanda. Ed. by T. Ga?apati S?str?. Trivandrum 1914. Trivandrum Sanskrit Series No. XXXVIII. (The Travancore Government Press) for an Indian colleague who will come to Marburg as research fellow. The book is available in several German collections but because of the brittle state of the older volumes of this prestigious series it might be excluded from inter-library loan or too fragile to be copied. Thanking you in advance, Michael Hahn --- Prof. Dr. Michael Hahn Ritterstr. 14 D-35287 Amoeneburg Tel. +49-6422-938963 Fax: +49-6422-938967 E-mail: hahn.m at t-online.de URL: staff-www.uni-marburg.de/~hahnm From gruenen at SUB.UNI-GOETTINGEN.DE Thu Oct 25 07:01:13 2012 From: gruenen at SUB.UNI-GOETTINGEN.DE (Gruenendahl, Reinhold) Date: Thu, 25 Oct 12 07:01:13 +0000 Subject: Amarakosa commentary --- correction of address Message-ID: <161227097818.23782.4566872567046660733.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Sorry, I should have given this address: https://opac.sub.uni-goettingen.de/DB=1.20/CMD?ACT=SRCHA&IKT=1016&SRT=YOP&TRM=namalinganusasana%3F+trivandrum A click on the individual entries for volumes 1-4 opens the respective record, where the download links are found at the bottom. For general information on the GRETIL e-library, see here: gretil.sub.uni-goettingen.de/gr_elib.htm You can always return to the opening screen of the OPAC by clicking on the icon in the left corner. Regards, R. Gr?nendahl ________________________________________ Von: Gruenendahl, Reinhold Gesendet: Mittwoch, 24. Oktober 2012 18:11 An: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Betreff: AW: [INDOLOGY] Amarakosa commentary The four volumes of the TSS edition, gathered from various sources, can now be downloaded from here: https://opac.sub.uni-goettingen.de/CMD?ACT=SRCHA&IKT=1016&SRT=YOP&TRM=namalinganusasana%3F+trivandrum (plain image PDFs with index/bookmarks) ________________________________________ Von: Indology [INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk]" im Auftrag von "Michael Hahn [hahn.m at T-ONLINE.DE] Gesendet: Mittwoch, 26. September 2012 13:10 An: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Betreff: [INDOLOGY] Amarakosa commentary Dear all, Colleagues have been so incredibly helpful with regards to scanned books and papers. That is why I dare to ask whether some can provide me with a digital copy of the following work The N?mali?g?nus?sana of Amarasimha with The Commentary T?k?sarvaswa of Vandyaghat?ya- Sarv?nanda. Ed. by T. Ga?apati S?str?. Trivandrum 1914. Trivandrum Sanskrit Series No. XXXVIII. (The Travancore Government Press) for an Indian colleague who will come to Marburg as research fellow. The book is available in several German collections but because of the brittle state of the older volumes of this prestigious series it might be excluded from inter-library loan or too fragile to be copied. Thanking you in advance, Michael Hahn --- Prof. Dr. Michael Hahn Ritterstr. 14 D-35287 Amoeneburg Tel. +49-6422-938963 Fax: +49-6422-938967 E-mail: hahn.m at t-online.de URL: staff-www.uni-marburg.de/~hahnm From rajam at EARTHLINK.NET Thu Oct 25 18:56:28 2012 From: rajam at EARTHLINK.NET (rajam) Date: Thu, 25 Oct 12 11:56:28 -0700 Subject: Query about EBOOKs ... Message-ID: <161227097820.23782.11051133860400750967.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Dear Colleagues, (sorry for the cross posting if you're a member on these lists) I'm trying to understand Amazon's policy of EBOOKs. Questions: --------------- 1. Has any of your published books been converted into an EBOOK (by Amazon or a third-party seller) and sold by Amazon? 2. If so, how did the process go? Did Amazon or the original Publisher of the book contact you about it or ask for your permission to do so? 3. Does Amazon send you a royalty for the EBOOK? 4. What is the Copyright agreement for EBOOKs? Original, printed, book may have some Copyright deals. When a seller like Amazon sells that book as an EBOOK, how does the Copyright law work? The EBOOK technology is new. Did the original copyright laws cover the upcoming and new technology services for eternity? 5. Does Amazon have any policy on their selection of the books to be sold as EBOOKs? How do they select which books to be sold as EBOOKs? Their policy may be a "Google Play" for them as well as for freelance non-academics on the Internet to get scholarly books for a cheap price or for free. But it certainly raises serious questions, especially for upcoming young academic scholars -- why write scholarly books, especially when the Internet is infested with freelance arm-chair analysts and plagiarists? Does academic scholarship mean anything? 6. Does Amazon spend that much time to scan a book (in my case a 1000 + pages book) in order to convert it into an EBOOK? Amazing!! There may be similar questions that I can't think of at the moment. However, I was shocked to see my book ("A Reference Grammar of Classical Tamil Poetry") being sold by Amazon as an EBOOK. I never knew about it until recently since someone asked me where to purchase my book. See: http://books.google.com/books/about/ A_Reference_Grammar_of_Classical_Tamil_P.html?id=n6VhXLdmdKkC https://play.google.com/store/books/details?id=n6VhXLdmdKkC&rdid=book- n6VhXLdmdKkC&rdot=1&source=gbs_atb I'm not dead yet! Amazon (or whoever converted my book into an EBOOK and sold it to Amazon) could have had the courtesy to let me know what's going on! I would appreciate any help from you in figuring out what's going on in the "e-publishing" world. Thanks and regards, V. S. Rajam -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From gthomgt at GMAIL.COM Thu Oct 25 20:08:46 2012 From: gthomgt at GMAIL.COM (George Thompson) Date: Thu, 25 Oct 12 16:08:46 -0400 Subject: Format requirements and deadline for Staal memorial volume Message-ID: <161227097822.23782.10289482482353912025.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Dear List, We would like to receive within one year (absolute deadline: 15 October 2013) papers transmitted in MS Word that are Unicode compliant, using standard diacritics. We prefer the Chicago Manual of Style format, with both annotations and a separate bibliography: no comprehensive bibliographies, just cited sources. We do not want run-in annotations, except for text-references. Footnote annotations should use full bibliographic information in first citation, then short form (author's last name, short title, page #) for further citations. As for paper length, we prefer papers within the range of 3,500-10,000 words. Best wishes, George Thompson, Richard Payne From gthomgt at GMAIL.COM Thu Oct 25 20:21:34 2012 From: gthomgt at GMAIL.COM (George Thompson) Date: Thu, 25 Oct 12 16:21:34 -0400 Subject: Format requirements and deadline for Staal memorial volume In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227097824.23782.2883350234342116853.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> We would like to receive within one year (absolute deadline: 15 October 2013) papers transmitted in MS Word that are Unicode compliant, using standard diacritics. We prefer the Chicago Manual of Style format, with both annotations and a separate bibliography: no comprehensive bibliographies, just cited sources. We do not want run-in annotations, except for text-references. Footnote annotations should use full bibliographic information in first citation, then short form (author's last name, short title, page #) for further citations. As for paper length, we prefer papers within the range of 3,500-10,000 words. Best wishes, George Thompson and Richard Payne From gthomgt at GMAIL.COM Thu Oct 25 22:00:36 2012 From: gthomgt at GMAIL.COM (George Thompson) Date: Thu, 25 Oct 12 18:00:36 -0400 Subject: Format requirements and deadline for Staal memorial volume Message-ID: <161227097826.23782.5322412529252677543.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Dear list, We have had many requests for format requirements and a deadline. Here is a rough guideline. We would like to receive within one year (absolute deadline: 15 October 2013) papers transmitted in MS Word that are Unicode compliant, using standard diacritics. We prefer the Chicago Manual of Style format, with both annotations and a separate bibliography: no comprehensive bibliographies, just cited sources. We do not want run-in annotations, except for text-references. Footnote annotations should use full bibliographic information in first citation, then short form (author's last name, short title, page #) for further citations. As for paper length, we prefer papers within the range of 3,500-10,000 words. As for acceptable subject-matter, we will consider all papers that treat issues that Frits Staal himself had treated Best wishes, George Thompson, Richard Payne From shyamr at YORKU.CA Fri Oct 26 14:01:29 2012 From: shyamr at YORKU.CA (Shyam Ranganathan) Date: Fri, 26 Oct 12 10:01:29 -0400 Subject: Question about logos Message-ID: <161227097829.23782.6515543690163517558.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Dear Indology Colleagues, I was wondering two questions: (1) If Sanskrit presents a single term with the ideological baggage of the Greek Logos: (a term that stands for thought, reason, word/language, opinion) (2) If the answer to (1) is yes, if such a term is of special importance for any particular school of thought. My impression is that while Indian languages have many words for reason or knowledge, opinion and thought, and words for linguistic items such as "word," these are often different words. Thanks in advance! Shyam Ranganathan Department of Philosophy York University, Toronto From palaniappa at AOL.COM Sat Oct 27 01:41:31 2012 From: palaniappa at AOL.COM (Sudalaimuthu Palaniappan) Date: Fri, 26 Oct 12 21:41:31 -0400 Subject: Categorizing Warriors and Bards in Early Tamil Society Message-ID: <161227097832.23782.8864918974166648039.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Dear Scholars, It isconventionally believed that the warriors and bards in early Tamil society weremutually exclusive social groups. A closer examination of the Classical Tamiltexts reveals that this does not seem to be true. Consider the word ?ma??ar?.It is usually interpreted as denoting warriors. But Akam.189 andAi?k. 371 reveal that the ma??ar were also bards. In Akam.189, elephants whichcarry jack fruits using their raised trunks are compared to ma??ar who go to participatein a vi?avu (festival) in a different land carrying the concert percussioninstrument, mu?avu. Indeed Peruma?aippulavar, the modern commentator glosses?ma??ar? in this poem as ?k?ttar?. That ma??ar alsofunctioned as performing artists is inferred from Ai?k. 371.1 too, where apeacock is supposed to dance to the percussion by ma??ar. UVS glosses ?ma??ar?in this poem as ?v?rar? (warriors). He also glosses ?ko??u? as beating thepa?ai drum. Another commentator, Peruma?aippulavar, interprets this poem asreferring to warriors beating the war drum (p?r muracam). Because they haveinterpreted ?ma??ar? here as warriors, the commentators have missed the markcompletely. One can expectpeacocks to get scared of war drums rather than dance to their sound. In otherpoems, a peacock?s dance is compared to vi?ali?s dance performed to theaccompaniment of the concert drum ?mu?avu?. (See Akam. 82.4-9). ?Mu?avu?playing is associated with the festival ?vi?avu? in many poems as in Akam.206.11. It is thisperforming aspect of ma??ar that is intended in Ku?. 31 in which ma??argathering in a vi?avu is mentioned in a poem which describes the heroinesearching for her hero amidst the festival gathering. Here ma??ar could beplayers of mu?avu or dancers. In this poem the females are supposed to performthe tu?a?kai dance. Tu?a?kai dance is performed to the accompaniment of mu?avudrum. (See Akam. 336.16.) Going by the colophon of Ku?. 31, we can say Akam222.4-7 is related to the event mentioned in Ku?. 31. Here the hero is supposedto dance in the festival. (The very name of the hero, ???a? Atti, indicates hewas a dancer. Indeed he exemplifies the dual nature of the ma??ar.) It isbecause of his performing background, the heroine searches for the hero amongthe gathered ma??ar and tu?a?kai performers. But the commentators simplyinterpret ?ma??ar? in Ku?. 31 as warriors. Although ?ma??ar? are depicted aswarriors in other poems, in the poems mentioned above they are performers. Akam189 also indicates that the ma??ar went from place to place to perform in thefestivals just like other bards did. Similar to Akam.82.4-9, in Akam. 352.4-7, the dance of a peacock is compared to the performanceby a vi?ali, who dances to the percussion of mu?avu by bards called k??iyar.The associations revealed by the poems such as those given above argue forconsidering ma??ar to be both bardic performers as well as warriors. Similar to?ma??ar?, we also have the word ?porunar? which can indicate warriors as wellbards. Maturaikkk??ci 98-104 describes porunar as having ?mu?avu? like arms(which is a description characteristic of warriors) and receiving gifts such aselephants and lotuses made of gold (which are typical gifts given to bards)! In Porunar???uppa?ai (the guide poem of porunar), the poruna? isalso called the leader of ?k??iyar?. In Ci?up?????uppa?ai which is a guide poemof p??ar bards, in describing the welcoming nature of the city of the hero, thepoet says the gates of the city are open for porunar bards, poets, and brahminswhich suggests p??ar and porunar are essentially equivalent. Thus one is led tobelieve that the bards and warriors differed only on the basis of theactivities they engaged in and not in terms of any social origins. Thanksin advance for any comments. Regards, Palaniappan -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From zysk at HUM.KU.DK Sat Oct 27 08:14:39 2012 From: zysk at HUM.KU.DK (Kenneth Zysk) Date: Sat, 27 Oct 12 10:14:39 +0200 Subject: Email for Ruth L Schmidt Message-ID: <161227097842.23782.424608922431504876.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> I should greatly appreciate it, if someone could send me the current email address of Ruth Schmidt of the University of Oslo. Many thanks. Ken Kenneth Zysk, PhD, DPhil Head of Indology Department of Cross-Cultural and Regional Studies University of Copenhagen Asian Studies Section Artillerivej 86 DK-2300 Copenhagen S Denmark Ph: +45 3532 8951 Email: zysk at hum.ku.dk -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From zysk at HUM.KU.DK Sun Oct 28 08:09:10 2012 From: zysk at HUM.KU.DK (Kenneth Zysk) Date: Sun, 28 Oct 12 09:09:10 +0100 Subject: Email for Ruth L Schmidt Message-ID: <161227097839.23782.8870758300385017131.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> We were experiencing problems with the server, so I resend this request. Best, Ken I should greatly appreciate it, if someone could send me the current email address of Ruth Schmidt of the University of Oslo. Many thanks. Ken Kenneth Zysk, PhD, DPhil Head of Indology Department of Cross-Cultural and Regional Studies University of Copenhagen Asian Studies Section Artillerivej 86 DK-2300 Copenhagen S Denmark Ph: +45 3532 8951 Email: zysk at hum.ku.dk -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From psdmccartney at GMAIL.COM Sun Oct 28 08:01:08 2012 From: psdmccartney at GMAIL.COM (patrick mccartney) Date: Sun, 28 Oct 12 13:31:08 +0530 Subject: gay-atri Message-ID: <161227097836.23782.5746811272773999804.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Dear List, I recently attended a satsanga where the acarya of the ashram revealed the secret to preventing one's children from becoming homosexuals was indeed to have them engage daily for several months, if not years, in the performance of 12,000 rounds of japa of the *gay*-atri mantra. However, he qualified his statement by insisting it must be done before puberty, otherwise it is too late... I found his pun delightful, however, it has led me to ponder what, if any, advice is there in the shastras for explaining/rationalising homosexuality? Or for mitigating this "affliction that has come to India from the licentious West"...? -- All the best, Patrick McCartney PhD Candidate School of Culture, History & Language College of the Asia-Pacific The Australian National University Canberra, Australia, 0200 Rm 4.30 Baldessin Precinct Building skype - psdmccartney W- +61 2 6125 4323 M - +91 9714120772 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AfpCc8G_cUw&feature=related -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From palaniappa at AOL.COM Sun Oct 28 19:55:27 2012 From: palaniappa at AOL.COM (Sudalaimuthu Palaniappan) Date: Sun, 28 Oct 12 15:55:27 -0400 Subject: etymology of the word 'DRAVIDA" Message-ID: <161227097844.23782.14749712876467599783.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Please see the DEDR entry 3080 Ta. tamir? Tamil language, the Tamils, the Tamil country; tamir?a? a Tamilian. Ma. tamir? Tamil language. To. tobi? id. Ka. tamir?a, tambar?a id. Tu. tamu?ů, tamu?u, tambu?u Tamil. / Cf. Skt. dravi?a-, dramila-, dr?vi?a-. DED 2508. Regards, Palaniappan -----Original Message----- From: alakendu das To: INDOLOGY Sent: Wed, Oct 24, 2012 11:00 am Subject: [INDOLOGY] etymology of the word 'DRAVIDA" To All, I would be benefitted if anybody can enlighten me about the etymology of the word 'Dravida' as used in naming the race DRAVIDIAN. Thanking You Yours faithfully ALAKENDU DAS Post-Graduate,INDOLOGY Catch India as it happens with the Rediff News App. To download it for FREE, click here -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From shrivara at GMAIL.COM Mon Oct 29 01:43:52 2012 From: shrivara at GMAIL.COM (shrinivasa varakhedi) Date: Mon, 29 Oct 12 07:13:52 +0530 Subject: Question about logos In-Reply-To: <508A97B9.3090901@yorku.ca> Message-ID: <161227097847.23782.11275364821830852093.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> I think - "tarka" is an approximation as for as my understanding goes. Tarka stands for all most all meanings that u hv shown. regards, shrivara On 26-Oct-2012, at 7:31 PM, Shyam Ranganathan wrote: > Dear Indology Colleagues, > > I was wondering two questions: > > (1) If Sanskrit presents a single term with the ideological baggage of the Greek Logos: (a term that stands for thought, reason, word/language, opinion) > > (2) If the answer to (1) is yes, if such a term is of special importance for any particular school of thought. > > My impression is that while Indian languages have many words for reason or knowledge, opinion and thought, and words for linguistic items such as "word," these are often different words. > > Thanks in advance! > > Shyam Ranganathan > Department of Philosophy > York University, Toronto with warm regards, shrivara Contact: shrinivasa varakhedi 24/10, vaijayanta, Temple rd, ITI layout, BSK III Stage Bangalore 85 shrivara at gmail.com +91 9483501353 http://sites.google.com/site/shrivara -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mkapstei at UCHICAGO.EDU Mon Oct 29 07:30:20 2012 From: mkapstei at UCHICAGO.EDU (Matthew Kapstein) Date: Mon, 29 Oct 12 07:30:20 +0000 Subject: Question about logos In-Reply-To: <1C9567B9-6188-4988-AF30-FD16EDAD5090@gmail.com> Message-ID: <161227097854.23782.971400787997081270.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Dear Shrinivasa and Shyam, I beg to differ - tarka is not equivalent to logos. Though both can mean something like "reasoning," tarka is also sometimes used negatively to mean approximately "sophistry," and it has none of the theological/anthropological connotations with which logos is packed. I do not in fact think that one will find a Sanskrit "equivalent" to logos. A number of terms, however, do similarly come to be loaded with cultural baggage spanning conceptions of reason and divinity, though in rather different ways. These include a number of words for "speech" -- notably ?abda and v?c -- and, in Buddhist usage at least, pram??a, once that concept comes to be identified with the nature of buddhahood, as it does in Dign?ga and, especially, Dharmak?rti. There was an interesting project sponsored by the Indian Council for Philosophical Research about twenty years ago entitled Samv?da, if I recall correctly, which sought to address related issues by bringing contemporary philosophers and traditional Sanskrit pandits together in dialogue. The term "rationality" proved to be a real stumbling point and in the end a Sanskrit neologism was proposed, vaic?rikat? (from vic?ra, "rational investigation"). (The noted Dvaitaved?nta scholar Prahladacharya was, I believe, the innovator here.) Moral of the story: we do best to avoid facile equivalencies between philosophical terms that have long and complex histories of usage. Of course, useful translation equivalencies in particular contexts may be warranted (i.e., there may be some occasions on which tarka and logos can stand for one another), but in many cases that's the best we can reasonably expect. best regards, Matthew Matthew Kapstein Directeur d'?tudes, Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes Numata Visiting Professor of Buddhist Studies, The University of Chicago ________________________________ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mkapstei at UCHICAGO.EDU Mon Oct 29 09:17:48 2012 From: mkapstei at UCHICAGO.EDU (Matthew Kapstein) Date: Mon, 29 Oct 12 09:17:48 +0000 Subject: Destruction of Buddhist Sites in Afghanistan Message-ID: <161227097859.23782.7540319628998217180.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Dear friends, I am forwarding to you the message that follows concerning the dangers to major Buddhist archeological sites in Afghanistan. The petition mentioned now has almost 20,000 signatures, an indication of the concern that the issue has begun to provoke. Following is documentary film-maker Brent Huffman's message about this, after which I reproduce a message from art historian Susan Huntington on the same issue: Hello all, I am writing you as you attended a screening of "The Buddhas of Mes Aynak" at the South Asian Conference and requested more information. Here is the official Facebook page for the film: https://www.facebook.com/buddhasofaynak Here is a list of stories/press/interviews including my CNN opinion story and live interview. http://www.germancamera.com/news/ Here is our petition for Mes Aynak - we just surpassed 15,000 signatures! http://www.change.org/petitions/president-hamid-karzai-prevent-destruction-of-ancient-site-of-mes-aynak-the-environmental-damage-3 Please feel free to share this information. And thank you in advance for the support. Best, -Brent Huffman ----- "We must travel in the direction of our fear." -John Berryman Brent E. Huffman Assistant Professor/Documentary Filmmaker Medill School of Journalism Northwestern University Office: 847.491.7580 Twitter: twitter.com/#!/Brent_Huffman Facebook: www.facebook.com/behuffman Website: www.germancamera.com Dear Colleagues, Many of you may have heard about the imminent destruction of Mes Aynak and other important Buddhist sites in Afghanistan, which are scheduled to be destroyed by large-scale copper mining projects in the near future. The archaeologists at the site have been given until December, 2012, to complete whatever work they can, and then Mes Aynak and the extensive Buddhist materials in the region will be pulverized. A recent film, "The Buddhas of Mes Aynak," has been made by Northwestern University journalism professor, Brent Huffman, and he and others are posting materials on Facebook and various websites, primarily seeking signatures on a petition to at least delay the planned destruction. Please see the links and do consider adding your names to the signatures. Best wishes, Susan L. Huntington The Ohio State University Department of History of Art Matthew Kapstein Directeur d'?tudes, Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes Numata Visiting Professor of Buddhist Studies, The University of Chicago ________________________________ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From wujastyk at GMAIL.COM Mon Oct 29 09:37:01 2012 From: wujastyk at GMAIL.COM (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Mon, 29 Oct 12 10:37:01 +0100 Subject: Destruction of Buddhist Sites in Afghanistan In-Reply-To: <82C3E42590D939418C74DD76B97DDED074F342@xm-mbx-04-prod.ad.uchicago.edu> Message-ID: <161227097863.23782.4155341580338993421.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Thank you, Matthew. I've signed the petition. Best, Dominik -- Dr Dominik Wujastyk Department of South Asia, Tibetan and Buddhist Studies , University of Vienna, Spitalgasse 2-4, Courtyard 2, Entrance 2.1 1090 Vienna, Austria and Adjunct Professor, Division of Health and Humanities, St. John's Research Institute, Bangalore, India. Project | home page| PGP On 29 October 2012 10:17, Matthew Kapstein wrote: > Dear friends, > > I am forwarding to you the message that follows concerning the dangers to > major Buddhist > archeological sites in Afghanistan. The petition mentioned now has almost > 20,000 signatures, > an indication of the concern that the issue has begun to provoke. > Following is > documentary film-maker Brent Huffman's message about this, after which I > reproduce a > message from art historian Susan Huntington on the same issue: > > Hello all, > > I am writing you as you attended a screening of "The Buddhas of Mes > Aynak" at the South Asian Conference and requested more information. > > Here is the official Facebook page for the film: > > https://www.facebook.com/buddhasofaynak > > Here is a list of stories/press/interviews including my CNN opinion > story and live interview. > > http://www.germancamera.com/news/ > > Here is our petition for Mes Aynak - we just surpassed 15,000 signatures! > > > http://www.change.org/petitions/president-hamid-karzai-prevent-destruction-of-ancient-site-of-mes-aynak-the-environmental-damage-3 > > Please feel free to share this information. > And thank you in advance for the support. > > Best, > -Brent Huffman > > ----- > "We must travel in the direction of our fear." -John Berryman > > Brent E. Huffman > Assistant Professor/Documentary Filmmaker > Medill School of Journalism > Northwestern University > Office: 847.491.7580 > Twitter: twitter.com/#!/Brent_Huffman > Facebook: www.facebook.com/behuffman > Website: www.germancamera.com > > > Dear Colleagues, > > Many of you may have heard about the imminent destruction of Mes Aynak > and other important Buddhist sites in Afghanistan, which are scheduled > to be destroyed by large-scale copper mining projects in the near > future. The archaeologists at the site have been given until December, > 2012, to complete whatever work they can, and then Mes Aynak and the > extensive Buddhist materials in the region will be pulverized. > > A recent film, "The Buddhas of Mes Aynak," has been made by Northwestern > University journalism professor, Brent Huffman, and he and others are > posting materials on Facebook and various websites, primarily seeking > signatures on a petition to at least delay the planned destruction. > > Please see the links and do consider adding your names to the > signatures. > > Best wishes, > > Susan L. Huntington > The Ohio State University > Department of History of Art > > > Matthew Kapstein > Directeur d'?tudes, > Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes > > Numata Visiting Professor of Buddhist Studies, > The University of Chicago > ------------------------------ > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dbhattacharya200498 at YAHOO.COM Mon Oct 29 06:53:05 2012 From: dbhattacharya200498 at YAHOO.COM (Dipak Bhattacharya) Date: Mon, 29 Oct 12 14:53:05 +0800 Subject: etymology of the word 'DRAVIDA" In-Reply-To: <8CF835D4FA0C17A-E90-48581@webmail-m040.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <161227097850.23782.13379144214501783335.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> 30 10 12 Dear Colleagues, The information given, though useful and authentic,?pertains to Dravidian cognates but not to etymology. Till now etymology means information about the component lexeme and morphemes with indication of the root, if any, and the stem. The absence thereof seems to have been caused by the fact that this is an underived proper name. The reality of underived words is not always reflected in the writings of the older generations of grammarians with their insistence on the so-called primary and secondary suffixes but, according to me, the fact has to be given due recognition. I hasten to add that since we do not have knowledge of pre-classical Tamil, the possibility of apparently underived names being actually derived words, in a primitive state of affairs unknown to us, cannot be ruled out. But the original question seems to have been put from a Sanskritist?s point of view. It is a loan word in Sanskrit and hence, for all practical purposes that is to say in the context of the Sanskrit language, it is an underived word with a non-existent etymology. Best DB ________________________________ From: Sudalaimuthu Palaniappan To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Sent: Monday, 29 October 2012 1:25 AM Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] etymology of the word 'DRAVIDA" Please see the DEDR entry 3080 Ta. tamir? Tamil language, the Tamils, the Tamil country; tamir?a? a Tamilian. Ma. tamir? Tamil language. To. tobi? id. Ka. tamir?a, tambar?a id. Tu. tamu?ů, tamu?u, tambu?u Tamil. / Cf. Skt. dravi?a-, dramila-, dr?vi?a-. DED 2508. Regards, Palaniappan -----Original Message----- From: alakendu das To: INDOLOGY Sent: Wed, Oct 24, 2012 11:00 am Subject: [INDOLOGY] etymology of the word 'DRAVIDA" To All, I would be benefitted if anybody can enlighten me about the etymology of the word 'Dravida' as used in naming the race DRAVIDIAN. Thanking You Yours faithfully ALAKENDU DAS Post-Graduate,INDOLOGY Catch India as it happens with the Rediff News App. To download it for FREE, click here -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From wujastyk at GMAIL.COM Tue Oct 30 13:24:10 2012 From: wujastyk at GMAIL.COM (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Tue, 30 Oct 12 14:24:10 +0100 Subject: Sandy Message-ID: <161227097866.23782.16114025131519562285.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Here's wishing well to all our indological colleagues on the east coast of North America. Thinking of you. Best, Dominik Wujastyk for the INDOLOGY forum -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From veerankp at GMAIL.COM Tue Oct 30 18:01:00 2012 From: veerankp at GMAIL.COM (Veeranarayana Pandurangi) Date: Tue, 30 Oct 12 23:31:00 +0530 Subject: gay-atri In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227097869.23782.2748773203162053019.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> I have nothing to offer about the topic. But spelling is quite offending considering the status of that mantra. On Oct 28, 2012 1:31 PM, "patrick mccartney" wrote: > Dear List, > > I recently attended a satsanga where the acarya of the ashram revealed the > secret to preventing one's children from becoming homosexuals was indeed to > have them engage daily for several months, if not years, in the performance > of 12,000 rounds of japa of the *gay*-atri mantra. > > However, he qualified his statement by insisting it must be done before > puberty, otherwise it is too late... > > I found his pun delightful, however, it has led me to ponder what, if any, > advice is there in the shastras for explaining/rationalising homosexuality? > > Or for mitigating this "affliction that has come to India from the > licentious West"...? > > > -- > All the best, > > Patrick McCartney > > PhD Candidate > School of Culture, History & Language > College of the Asia-Pacific > The Australian National University > Canberra, Australia, 0200 > Rm 4.30 Baldessin Precinct Building > > skype - psdmccartney > W- +61 2 6125 4323 > M - +91 9714120772 > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AfpCc8G_cUw&feature=related > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From peterfriedlander at YAHOO.COM.AU Wed Oct 31 07:43:53 2012 From: peterfriedlander at YAHOO.COM.AU (Peter Friedlander) Date: Wed, 31 Oct 12 00:43:53 -0700 Subject: gender in Hijra's speech? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227097873.23782.12548093102175776570.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Dear Colleagues, A Japanese colleague interested in gendered language forms asked me about how Hijra's speak, as men or women.? As far as I know in Hindi hijras speak using female agreements for first person, but what about other South Asian languages, any suggestions on anybody who has written on this? Also are the precedents from Sanskrit or Tamil literatures of ?men speaking as women and adopting language forms distinctive of women? regards Peter -------------------------------- Dr Peter G. Friedlander Senior Lecturer in Hindi and Buddhist Studies Asian Studies School of Social Sciences La Trobe University, VIC 3086 Tel: 61 + 3 9479 1400 Email p.friedlander at latrobe.edu.au -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jacob at FABULARASA.DK Tue Oct 30 23:54:30 2012 From: jacob at FABULARASA.DK (Jacob Schmidt-Madsen) Date: Wed, 31 Oct 12 00:54:30 +0100 Subject: In search of Gy=?UTF-8?Q?=C4=81n_Caupa=E1=B9=9B?= boards Message-ID: <161227097871.23782.16018822043056268715.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Dear list, I am currently conducting a study of traditional Indian Gy?n Caupa? (skt. j??napa??a) boards used to play a kind of instructional karmic game destined to become the precursor of Snakes and Ladders. I have found a number of photographic reproductions of various boards (Jain, Vai??ava, ?aivite, Muslim) in the following publications: * Shimkhada, Deepak (1983) "A Preliminary Study of the Game of Karma in India, Nepal, and Tibet" in Artibus Asiae 44:4, p. 308-22. * Topsfield, Andrew (1985) "The Indian Game of Snakes and Ladders" in Artibus Asiae 46:3, pp. 203-26. * Topsfield, Andrew (2006) "Snakes and Ladders in India: Some Further Discoveries" in Artibus Asiae 66:1, pp. 143-79. A reproduction of a Tibetan board also appears in Mark Tatz and Jody Kent's "Rebirth: The Tibetan Game of Liberation" (New York, 1977), while a somewhat new-agy recreation of a Vai??ava board is found in Harish Johari's "Leela: The Game of Self-Knowledge" (Vermont, 1980). Several of the boards in the above publications also appear as illustrations in more popular books on ancient Indian board games. Owing to the fragile material (cloth, paper) and relatively careless handling of the boards, they are apparently few and far between (the oldest known versions dating to the late 18th century). I would therefore be very interested in learning about the existence of boards (published or not) hidden away or on display in places where I have not yet looked. My present focus is on 72-square Vai??ava boards as they seem to be the more numerous and widespread (with 84-square Jain boards running a close second), but news of any kind of boards unknown to me would be heartily welcomed. Kind regards, Jacob Jacob Schmidt-Madsen Assistant Teacher, Department of Indology University of Copenhagen From je374 at MSSTATE.EDU Wed Oct 31 15:15:14 2012 From: je374 at MSSTATE.EDU (Jonathan Edelmann) Date: Wed, 31 Oct 12 10:15:14 -0500 Subject: Improvements on La Tex? Message-ID: <161227097878.23782.6978163279719795811.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Dear All, I use Mac and I've started to work with La Tex for the purpose of noting variants in texts. I find La Tex a bit non-user-friendly, and I'm wondering if someone could recommend a good website for Indologist, Sinologist, etc. who are making critical editions, or (preferably) if anyone knows a better program that will allow for multiple footnote bars, margin notes, etc. Sincerely, Jonathan Edelmann Jonathan B. Edelmann, Ph.D. Assistant Professor of Religion Mississippi State University Department of Philosophy and Religion 449 Hardy Road Etheredge Hall Mississippi State 39762 Work Phone (662) 325-9363 Home Phone (662) 268-8314 University Website | Book | Email Address -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From alanus1216 at YAHOO.COM Wed Oct 31 21:20:17 2012 From: alanus1216 at YAHOO.COM (Allen Thrasher) Date: Wed, 31 Oct 12 14:20:17 -0700 Subject: In search of Gy=?utf-8?Q?=C4=81n_Caupa=E1=B9=9B?= bo ards In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227097888.23782.5746939401555587202.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Dear Jacob, Andrew Topsfield has made a personal collection of these and also published a full book dealing with them: LC control no.:2006345042 LCCN permalink:http://lccn.loc.gov/2006345042 Type of material:Book (Print, Microform, Electronic, etc.) Main title:The art of play : board and card games in India / edited by Andrew Topsfield. Published/Created:Mumbai : Marg Publications [on behalf of the National Centre for the Performing Arts], c2006. Description:168 p. : ill. (chiefly col.), 1 col. map ; 32 cm. ISBN:8185026769 I own or used to own a couple myself, that is to say,? I can't remember at the moment if I have already donated them to the Library of Congress or not.? I will check and get back to you.? If you don't hear from me after a few weeks please remind me off the list. Allen ________________________________ From: Jacob Schmidt-Madsen To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Sent: Tuesday, October 30, 2012 7:54 PM Subject: [INDOLOGY] In search of Gy?n Caupa? boards Dear list, I am currently conducting a study of traditional Indian Gy?n Caupa? (skt. j??napa??a) boards used to play a kind of instructional karmic game destined to become the precursor of Snakes and Ladders. I have found a number of photographic reproductions of various boards (Jain, Vai??ava, ?aivite, Muslim) in the following publications: * Shimkhada, Deepak (1983) "A Preliminary Study of the Game of Karma in India, Nepal, and Tibet" in Artibus Asiae 44:4, p. 308-22. * Topsfield, Andrew (1985) "The Indian Game of Snakes and Ladders" in Artibus Asiae 46:3, pp. 203-26. * Topsfield, Andrew (2006) "Snakes and Ladders in India: Some Further Discoveries" in Artibus Asiae 66:1, pp. 143-79. A reproduction of a Tibetan board also appears in Mark Tatz and Jody Kent's "Rebirth: The Tibetan Game of Liberation" (New York, 1977), while a somewhat new-agy recreation of a Vai??ava board is found in Harish Johari's "Leela: The Game of Self-Knowledge" (Vermont, 1980). Several of the boards in the above publications also appear as illustrations in more popular books on ancient Indian board games. Owing to the fragile material (cloth, paper) and relatively careless handling of the boards, they are apparently few and far between (the oldest known versions dating to the late 18th century). I would therefore be very interested in learning about the existence of boards (published or not) hidden away or on display in places where I have not yet looked. My present focus is on 72-square Vai??ava boards as they seem to be the more numerous and widespread (with 84-square Jain boards running a close second), but news of any kind of boards unknown to me would be heartily welcomed. Kind regards, Jacob Jacob Schmidt-Madsen Assistant Teacher, Department of Indology University of Copenhagen -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From alanus1216 at YAHOO.COM Wed Oct 31 21:39:56 2012 From: alanus1216 at YAHOO.COM (Allen Thrasher) Date: Wed, 31 Oct 12 14:39:56 -0700 Subject: gender in Hijra's speech? In-Reply-To: <1351669433.68349.YahooMailNeo@web121504.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <161227097890.23782.6496281211911091939.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> There might be something about this in the context of the 19th century in Richard Burton's long essay about eunuchs and the other notes to his translation of the Thousand and One Nights. Allen ________________________________ From: Peter Friedlander To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Sent: Wednesday, October 31, 2012 3:43 AM Subject: [INDOLOGY] gender in Hijra's speech? Dear Colleagues, A Japanese colleague interested in gendered language forms asked me about how Hijra's speak, as men or women.? As far as I know in Hindi hijras speak using female agreements for first person, but what about other South Asian languages, any suggestions on anybody who has written on this? Also are the precedents from Sanskrit or Tamil literatures of ?men speaking as women and adopting language forms distinctive of women? regards Peter -------------------------------- Dr Peter G. Friedlander Senior Lecturer in Hindi and Buddhist Studies Asian Studies School of Social Sciences La Trobe University, VIC 3086 Tel: 61 + 3 9479 1400 Email p.friedlander at latrobe.edu.au -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mjslouber at SMCM.EDU Wed Oct 31 15:44:41 2012 From: mjslouber at SMCM.EDU (Slouber, Michael J.) Date: Wed, 31 Oct 12 15:44:41 +0000 Subject: Improvements on La Tex? In-Reply-To: <639C5822-0086-4110-9C96-44B316315B3C@gmail.com> Message-ID: <161227097881.23782.7578855434333563786.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Dear Jonathan and others, Many critical editors now use the recently updated LaTeX package "eledmac" along with XeLaTeX to be able to typeset with Mac fonts. Here are a few useful links: The package itself: The users listserv: The list archive: Many useful posts: Some sample files: Many useful tips: Best of luck, Michael Slouber Visiting Assistant Professor Religious Studies St. Mary's College of Maryland http://garudam.info On Oct 31, 2012, at 11:15 AM, Jonathan Edelmann wrote: Dear All, I use Mac and I've started to work with La Tex for the purpose of noting variants in texts. I find La Tex a bit non-user-friendly, and I'm wondering if someone could recommend a good website for Indologist, Sinologist, etc. who are making critical editions, or (preferably) if anyone knows a better program that will allow for multiple footnote bars, margin notes, etc. Sincerely, Jonathan Edelmann Jonathan B. Edelmann, Ph.D. Assistant Professor of Religion Mississippi State University Department of Philosophy and Religion 449 Hardy Road Etheredge Hall Mississippi State 39762 Work Phone (662) 325-9363 Home Phone (662) 268-8314 University Website | Book | Email Address From jmchugh at USC.EDU Wed Oct 31 22:56:50 2012 From: jmchugh at USC.EDU (James McHugh) Date: Wed, 31 Oct 12 15:56:50 -0700 Subject: In search of Gy=?utf-8?Q?=C4=81n_Caupa_=E1=B9=9B?= bo ards Message-ID: <161227097895.23782.193578700398914059.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Dear List, Although not so much of academic interest, the following online Jain board game created by the V&A in London can be the most wonderful teaching aid with undergraduates and might be of use to some members: http://www.vam.ac.uk/vastatic/microsites/1414_jain/snakesandladders/ Best, James James McHugh Assistant Professor Of Religion School of Religion University of Southern California From adheesh1 at GMAIL.COM Wed Oct 31 23:34:29 2012 From: adheesh1 at GMAIL.COM (Adheesh Sathaye) Date: Wed, 31 Oct 12 16:34:29 -0700 Subject: In search of Gy=?utf-8?Q?=C4=81n_Caupa_=E1=B9=9B?= bo ards In-Reply-To: <19b1f2a5273844c42978b376587843e7@fabularasa.dk> Message-ID: <161227097897.23782.2901419153773504992.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> One might also wish to consult the publications (and person) of S. Y. Wakankar, formerly of the Oriental Institute, Baroda, and currently working at the Jain University, Bangalore, who has worked on Ganjipha and other premodern South Asian games, and has a particularly rich knowledge of relevant Skt MSS at Baroda. Wakankar's works are published mainly in obscure Indian journals and books, and while I don't have any references at the moment, he may be reached easily by email at: . And perhaps you have already consulted and seen the Jain boards on display in the museum at the Kailasasagar-suri Gyan-mandir at Koba (Gujarat)? They are a wonderful specimen, and their MSS collection would undoubtedly be a good resource. (see http://kobatirth.org/ for more details). All best wishes, Adheesh ---- Adheesh Sathaye Department of Asian Studies University of British Columbia On Oct 31, 2012, at 3:05 PM, Jacob Schmidt-Madsen wrote: > Dear Allen, > > The boards in Topsfield's "Art of Play" were already published in the articles mentioned by me, the difference being that the reproductions in the former are better quality and - most importantly - in color. All in all, it is a beautiful book. > > And yes, I would love to know of any boards in your possession (or vicinity). I will make sure to remind you. > > All the best, > Jacob > > Allen Thrasher skrev den 2012-10-31 22:20: >> Dear Jacob, >> >> Andrew Topsfield has made a personal collection of these and also >> published a full book dealing with them: >> >> LC CONTROL NO.: >> 2006345042 >> >> LCCN PERMALINK: >> http://lccn.loc.gov/2006345042 [1] >> >> TYPE OF MATERIAL: >> Book (Print, Microform, Electronic, etc.) >> >> MAIN TITLE: >> The art of play : board and card games in India / edited by >> Andrew Topsfield. >> >> PUBLISHED/CREATED: >> Mumbai : Marg Publications [on behalf of the National Centre for >> the Performing Arts], c2006. >> >> DESCRIPTION: >> 168 p. : ill. (chiefly col.), 1 col. map ; 32 cm. >> >> ISBN: >> 8185026769 >> >> I own or used to own a couple myself, that is to say, I can't >> remember at the moment if I have already donated them to the Library >> of Congress or not. I will check and get back to you. If you don't >> hear from me after a few weeks please remind me off the list. >> >> Allen >> >> ------------------------- >> FROM: Jacob Schmidt-Madsen >> TO: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk >> SENT: Tuesday, October 30, 2012 7:54 PM >> SUBJECT: [INDOLOGY] In search of Gy?n Caupa? boards >> >> Dear list, >> >> I am currently conducting a study of traditional Indian Gy?n Caupa? >> (skt. j??napa??a) boards used to play a kind of instructional karmic >> game destined to become the precursor of Snakes and Ladders. I have >> found a number of photographic reproductions of various boards (Jain, >> Vai??ava, ?aivite, Muslim) in the following publications: >> >> * Shimkhada, Deepak (1983) "A Preliminary Study of the Game of Karma >> in India, Nepal, and Tibet" in Artibus Asiae 44:4, p. 308-22. >> >> * Topsfield, Andrew (1985) "The Indian Game of Snakes and Ladders" in >> Artibus Asiae 46:3, pp. 203-26. >> >> * Topsfield, Andrew (2006) "Snakes and Ladders in India: Some Further >> Discoveries" in Artibus Asiae 66:1, pp. 143-79. >> >> A reproduction of a Tibetan board also appears in Mark Tatz and Jody >> Kent's "Rebirth: The Tibetan Game of Liberation" (New York, 1977), >> while a somewhat new-agy recreation of a Vai??ava board is found in >> Harish Johari's "Leela: The Game of Self-Knowledge" (Vermont, 1980). >> >> Several of the boards in the above publications also appear as >> illustrations in more popular books on ancient Indian board games. >> >> Owing to the fragile material (cloth, paper) and relatively careless >> handling of the boards, they are apparently few and far between (the >> oldest known versions dating to the late 18th century). I would >> therefore be very interested in learning about the existence of boards >> (published or not) hidden away or on display in places where I have >> not yet looked. >> >> My present focus is on 72-square Vai??ava boards as they seem to be >> the more numerous and widespread (with 84-square Jain boards running a >> close second), but news of any kind of boards unknown to me would be >> heartily welcomed. >> >> Kind regards, >> Jacob >> >> Jacob Schmidt-Madsen >> Assistant Teacher, Department of Indology >> University of Copenhagen >> >> >> >> Links: >> ------ >> [1] http://lccn.loc.gov/2006345042 From soni at STAFF.UNI-MARBURG.DE Wed Oct 31 16:55:24 2012 From: soni at STAFF.UNI-MARBURG.DE (Jayandra Soni) Date: Wed, 31 Oct 12 17:55:24 +0100 Subject: Launch of the New IASS Website Message-ID: <161227097883.23782.12698407717191482456.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Dear LIST Members, On behalf of the IASS, the International Association of Sanskrit Studies, it is a great pleasure for me to announce that our new Website was launched on VIJAYADASHAMI, Wednesday, 24th October 2012. To repeat what the site says: The IASS expressly thanks the INDOLOGY website and its founder Dominik Wujastyk for hosting the website of the IASS between 2001 and 2008, and the Rashtriya Sanskrit Sansthan and its Vice-Chancellors Professors V. Kutumba Sastry and R. V. Tripathi for hosting it between 2008 and 2012. We also thank Dr Heike Moser for allowing us to use 2 photographs by her on Kutiyattam, and Dr Amarjiva Lochan for the others. The site will be pleased to greet you: http://www.sanskritassociation.org With apologies for multiple postings, Jayendra ------------------------------ Jayandra Soni, Ph.Dd. (BHU and McMaster) Secretary General, International Association of Sanskrit Studies http://www.sanskritassociation.org/ Email: jayandra.soni at sanskritassociation.org From wujastyk at GMAIL.COM Wed Oct 31 17:26:51 2012 From: wujastyk at GMAIL.COM (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Wed, 31 Oct 12 18:26:51 +0100 Subject: Improvements on La Tex? In-Reply-To: <8E11F3CB-16A2-4482-B85E-32A614A75681@smcm.edu> Message-ID: <161227097885.23782.16538187431071641841.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> As one of the original authors of EDMAC (which morphed into LEDMAC and eLEDMAC), I obviously think that using XeTeX or XeLaTeX and LEDMAC (or variant, ho ho) is the True Path. I've done editions this way, and have been delighted with the results. It's important to use an editing program that makes things as easy as possible. These days, I use TeXStudio, and I like it. But this is a matter of personal preference. Other excellent editing programs include Emacs, TeXWorks, and WinEdt. I used WinEdt when I was still on Windows XP, and I really liked it. Since moving to GNU/Linux, I had to leave it behind, sadly. For comparisons, see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_TeX_editors. For Indic work, your editing program must have Unicode support, and must use the Unicode variant of TeX: XeTeX (with LaTeX and Polyglossia). The links provided by Michael just now will tell you more. However, the Classical Text Editor by Stefan Hagel is also a capable program, if you absolutely need a MS Word-like interface. I am using CTE myself these days, because I it was chosen as the project tool by the Caraka Project long before I arrived. I have a love-hate relationship with CTE. It has many real strengths, but also some weaknesses, some bugs, and some inconsistencies. The author, Stefan Hagel, stands solidly behind his program, and fixes things as soon as you tell him, often within a couple of hours. In an ideal world, a front-end like CTE would export TeX or XML code that could be compiled by XeLaTeX. I think that's not actually an unrealistic hope for the future, and some work in this direction has already been done by Sebastian Rahtz at Oxford (TEI/XML -> LEDMAC -> PDF). You should also look at Juxta. It addresses the issue of text editing in a completely different manner, but has real strengths. Best, Dominik -- Dr Dominik Wujastyk Department of South Asia, Tibetan and Buddhist Studies , University of Vienna, Spitalgasse 2-4, Courtyard 2, Entrance 2.1 1090 Vienna, Austria and Adjunct Professor, Division of Health and Humanities, St. John's Research Institute, Bangalore, India. Project | home page| PGP On 31 October 2012 16:44, Slouber, Michael J. wrote: > Dear Jonathan and others, > > Many critical editors now use the recently updated LaTeX package "eledmac" > along with XeLaTeX to be able to typeset with Mac fonts. Here are a few > useful links: > > The package itself: > The users listserv: < > https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/ledmac-users> > The list archive: > Many useful posts: > Some sample files: > Many useful tips: > > Best of luck, > > Michael Slouber > Visiting Assistant Professor > Religious Studies > St. Mary's College of Maryland > http://garudam.info > > > > On Oct 31, 2012, at 11:15 AM, Jonathan Edelmann wrote: > > Dear All, > > I use Mac and I've started to work with La Tex for the purpose of noting > variants in texts. I find La Tex a bit non-user-friendly, and I'm > wondering if someone could recommend a good website for Indologist, > Sinologist, etc. who are making critical editions, or (preferably) if > anyone knows a better program that will allow for multiple footnote bars, > margin notes, etc. > > Sincerely, > Jonathan Edelmann > > > Jonathan B. Edelmann, Ph.D. Assistant Professor of Religion > Mississippi State University Department of Philosophy and Religion > 449 Hardy Road Etheredge Hall > Mississippi State 39762 > Work Phone (662) 325-9363 Home Phone (662) 268-8314 > University Website< > http://www.philosophyandreligion.msstate.edu/faculty/edelmann.php> | Book< > http://ukcatalogue.oup.com/product/academic/pn/neuroscience/9780199641543.do?sortby=pubDateDescend> > | Email Address > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From will.sweetman at GMAIL.COM Wed Oct 31 08:51:12 2012 From: will.sweetman at GMAIL.COM (Will Sweetman) Date: Wed, 31 Oct 12 21:51:12 +1300 Subject: gender in Hijra's speech? In-Reply-To: <1351669433.68349.YahooMailNeo@web121504.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <161227097875.23782.8172945642351074715.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Dear Peter For Hindi, Kira Hall's work is probably a good place to look. See, e.g., Hall, Kira. ?Exceptional Speakers: Contested and Problematized Gender Identities.? In Handbook of Language and Gender, edited by Miriam Meyerhoff and Janet Holmes, 352-80. Malden: Blackwell, 2003. Hall, Kira, and Veronica O?Donovan. "Shifting Gender Positions Among Hindi-speaking Hijras". In Victoria Bergvall, Janet Bing, and Alice Freed (eds.), Rethinking Language and Gender Research: Theory and Practice. London: Longman, 1996, 228-266. or her other works - many downloadable from her website: http://www.colorado.edu/linguistics/faculty/kira_hall/publications.htm Gayatri Reddy has written on hijras in Andhra, but I don't recall what (if anything) she says about language. Reddy, Gayatri. With Respect to Sex: Negotiating Hijra Identity in South India. Chicago: University of Chicago Press, 2004. Best wishes Will -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jacob at FABULARASA.DK Wed Oct 31 22:05:11 2012 From: jacob at FABULARASA.DK (Jacob Schmidt-Madsen) Date: Wed, 31 Oct 12 23:05:11 +0100 Subject: In search of Gy=?UTF-8?Q?=C4=81n_Caupa=E1=B9=9B?= bo ards In-Reply-To: <1351718417.13753.YahooMailNeo@web163006.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <161227097893.23782.7874360859182314179.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Dear Allen, The boards in Topsfield's "Art of Play" were already published in the articles mentioned by me, the difference being that the reproductions in the former are better quality and - most importantly - in color. All in all, it is a beautiful book. And yes, I would love to know of any boards in your possession (or vicinity). I will make sure to remind you. All the best, Jacob Allen Thrasher skrev den 2012-10-31 22:20: > Dear Jacob, > > Andrew Topsfield has made a personal collection of these and also > published a full book dealing with them: > > LC CONTROL NO.: > 2006345042 > > LCCN PERMALINK: > http://lccn.loc.gov/2006345042 [1] > > TYPE OF MATERIAL: > Book (Print, Microform, Electronic, etc.) > > MAIN TITLE: > The art of play : board and card games in India / edited by > Andrew Topsfield. > > PUBLISHED/CREATED: > Mumbai : Marg Publications [on behalf of the National Centre for > the Performing Arts], c2006. > > DESCRIPTION: > 168 p. : ill. (chiefly col.), 1 col. map ; 32 cm. > > ISBN: > 8185026769 > > I own or used to own a couple myself, that is to say, I can't > remember at the moment if I have already donated them to the Library > of Congress or not. I will check and get back to you. If you don't > hear from me after a few weeks please remind me off the list. > > Allen > > ------------------------- > FROM: Jacob Schmidt-Madsen > TO: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk > SENT: Tuesday, October 30, 2012 7:54 PM > SUBJECT: [INDOLOGY] In search of Gy?n Caupa? boards > > Dear list, > > I am currently conducting a study of traditional Indian Gy?n Caupa? > (skt. j??napa??a) boards used to play a kind of instructional karmic > game destined to become the precursor of Snakes and Ladders. I have > found a number of photographic reproductions of various boards (Jain, > Vai??ava, ?aivite, Muslim) in the following publications: > > * Shimkhada, Deepak (1983) "A Preliminary Study of the Game of Karma > in India, Nepal, and Tibet" in Artibus Asiae 44:4, p. 308-22. > > * Topsfield, Andrew (1985) "The Indian Game of Snakes and Ladders" in > Artibus Asiae 46:3, pp. 203-26. > > * Topsfield, Andrew (2006) "Snakes and Ladders in India: Some Further > Discoveries" in Artibus Asiae 66:1, pp. 143-79. > > A reproduction of a Tibetan board also appears in Mark Tatz and Jody > Kent's "Rebirth: The Tibetan Game of Liberation" (New York, 1977), > while a somewhat new-agy recreation of a Vai??ava board is found in > Harish Johari's "Leela: The Game of Self-Knowledge" (Vermont, 1980). > > Several of the boards in the above publications also appear as > illustrations in more popular books on ancient Indian board games. > > Owing to the fragile material (cloth, paper) and relatively careless > handling of the boards, they are apparently few and far between (the > oldest known versions dating to the late 18th century). I would > therefore be very interested in learning about the existence of > boards > (published or not) hidden away or on display in places where I have > not yet looked. > > My present focus is on 72-square Vai??ava boards as they seem to be > the more numerous and widespread (with 84-square Jain boards running > a > close second), but news of any kind of boards unknown to me would be > heartily welcomed. > > Kind regards, > Jacob > > Jacob Schmidt-Madsen > Assistant Teacher, Department of Indology > University of Copenhagen > > > > Links: > ------ > [1] http://lccn.loc.gov/2006345042 From rohana.seneviratne at ORINST.OX.AC.UK Tue Oct 2 21:19:19 2012 From: rohana.seneviratne at ORINST.OX.AC.UK (Rohana Seneviratne) Date: Tue, 02 Oct 12 22:19:19 +0100 Subject: Hemacandra's verse - pram=?UTF-8?Q?=C4=81=E1=B9=87asiddh=C4=81ntaviruddhamatra?= Message-ID: <161227097480.23782.7447949915475496450.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Dear Indologists, I would like to trace the original source of the following Sanskrit verse which is said to be by Hemacandra. As you may know, it is widely quoted and well-known but where it originally came from remains unknown. Please let me know if you have any clue. ?????????????????????????? ?????????????? ???????????????? | ????????????????? ????????????? ??????????? ?????????? || Many Thanks in advance, Best wishes Rohana Seneviratne From Marcus.Schmuecker at OEAW.AC.AT Mon Oct 22 13:09:40 2012 From: Marcus.Schmuecker at OEAW.AC.AT (=?utf-8?Q?Schm=C3=BCcker=2C_Marcus?=) Date: Mon, 22 Oct 12 13:09:40 +0000 Subject: WG: De Nobili Research Library Prize 2012 In-Reply-To: <366D7D7F1F289542B015A3E5DE057D540221125F4F7D@W07EXCHANGE.oeaw.ads> Message-ID: <161227097765.23782.12295580374862498514.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> This is to announce that Mitch Numark, PhD, Assistant Professor, Department of History, California State University Sacramento, is the winner of the De Nobili Research Library Prize for 2012 (?Dimensions of the Christian Encounter with the Religions of India: Aims, Possibilities, Ramifications?), based on his essay ?The Scottish ?Discovery? of Jainism in Nineteenth-Century Bombay?. ________________________________________ Von: Schm?cker, Marcus Gesendet: Montag, 5. Dezember 2011 17:11 An: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Betreff: De Nobili Research Library Prize 2012 To whom it may concern (and please excuse, if it was already done). Announcing the ?De Nobili Research Library Prize? for 2012 The association ?De Nobili Research Library ? Association for Indology and the Study of Religion?, Vienna, aims to promote research on Indian religions, especially from the point of view of the mutual encounter between Christian spirituality as well as Christianity and Western thought in general, and the various manifestations of Indian religiosity. To further this aim, the Association disseminates the results of such research through the organisation of symposia and public lectures, and especially through its two publication series (see http://www.istb.univie.ac.at/cgi-bin/sdn/sdn.cgi). This year, the Association decided to promote its aims in still another way. It herewith announces, for the first time, an essay competition. Stu?dents, young researchers and others interested in the Christian encounter with Indian religions are cordially invited to submit an essay on the topic ?Dimensions of the Christian Encounter with the Religions of India: Aims, Possibilities, Ramifications?. The previously unpublished essays may be written in English or German, and should amount to approximately 18,000 words. A prize committee consisting of members of the Association and an external referee will evaluate the submitted essays in a double-blind review process. The best essay will be awarded with the ?De Nobili Research Library Prize? for 2012; the prize money amounts to ? 2,500. The prize may be shared by two winners. Essays should be formatted in 12 pt, with 1.5 line spacing, and submitted in PDF-format until May 20, 2012, the 407th anniversary of Roberto de Nobili?s arrival in India, to the Deputy Secretary of the Association, Dr. Marcus Schm?cker, at Marcus.Schmuecker at oeaw.ac.at. With best regards, Karin Preisendanz, Chairperson of the Association