old tamil

[Jean-Luc Chevillard]

Dear  SP,

you write


<QUOTE SP>

"This interpretation of /kāmaram/ as /cīkāmaram/ is as silly as
  equating the word /rāga/ with /Śrīrāga/, a specific melody, and 
reflects these commentators' ignorance of epigraphic evidence of the use 
of the word /kāmaram/.

</QUOTE SP>

How would you comment on the use of Kāmaram
in the Tirumuṟaikaṇṭapurāṇam?
in this verse:

ஒன்றாகுங் காந்தார பஞ்சமத்துக் கோரிரண்டாம் /
நன்றான சீர்நட்ட பாடைக்கு நவின்றுரைக்கில் /
குன்றாத புறநீர்மைக் கிரண்டாகுங் கூறுமிசை /
ஒன்றாகக் காமரத்துக் கொன்றாகப் போற்றினார் (42)

oṉṟākuṅ kāntāra pañcamattuk kōriraṇṭām /
naṉṟāṉa cīrnaṭṭa pāṭaikku naviṉṟuraikkil /
kuṉṟāta puṟanīrmaik kiraṇṭākuṅ kūṟumicai /
oṉṟākak kāmarattuk koṉṟākap pōṟṟiṉār (42)


This is part of the enumeration where kaṭṭaḷai-s are attributed to the 
various paṇ-ṣ

See the translation by Karen Pechilis Prentiss
in the /International Journal of Hindu Studies 5, 1 (April 2001)
where this verse is translated on pp. 40-41.

See also the pages 212-213 inside the 1947 book /Yāḻ Nūl/
by Vipulānanta Cuvāmikaḷ
(published by the Karantai Tamiḻ Caṅkam).
where he reproduces a section of
Tirumuṟaikaṇṭapurāṇam.

He later discusses two kaṭṭaḷai-s for cīkāmaram
on p. 235-236.

That seems to mean that Vipulānanta Cuvāmikaḷ
accepts the equation between "cīkāmaram"
and "kāmaram".

(is this not parallel to the fact that the same place can be referred to 
as Kāḻi and as Cīkāḻi?)

I suppose that means that all of that is open for discussion.

I would like to comment that usings words such as "silly" and 
"parroting" does not belong in an academic discussion. These words are 
unnecessarily aggressive or insulting. :-(

It is enough to say that one disagrees with other people's interpretations.

Thanks for the many interesting insights which your post contains

-- Jean-Luc Chevillard (CNRS, UMR 7597)
  (currently in Pondicherry, at the EFEO center)



On 19/11/2012 04:47, Sudalaimuthu Palaniappan wrote:
> Dear Dr. Aprigliano,
>
> Other scholars on the list have given some references. I would like to
> outline some points that will help situate the study of Old Tamil in
> its  historical/cultural background.
>
> Except for V.S. Rajam's grammar which others have cited too, the study
> of Old Tamil lacks some fundamental philological analyses. Here I am
> taking Old Tamil to refer to Classical Tamil (CT) texts of eight
> anthologies and ten long poems. Most of the interpretations of CT texts
> are based on commentaries that were written several centuries after the
> poems were composed. These commentators were not historians and assumed
> a level of Tamil cultural continuity from the CT time to their times
> which was unwarranted. (Between the world of the CT texts and the later
> Bhakti texts there was a major culture change in the Tamil country.)
> These commentators were mostly from the upper castes - brahmins and
> non-brahmins- who had a very similar cultural viewpoint.
>
> These commentators projected into the CT past the cultural significance
> and semantics of terms of their times. They were often divorced from
> other cultural domains such as music, dance, etc. (The anecdote
> involving U.V. Swaminatha Iyer and his teacher Meenakshisundaram Pillai
> regarding the former learning Carnatic music exemplifies this.)  Often
> when the traditional Tamil scholars interpreted key terms dealing with
> such fields, they were wrong. An example is the case of the word
> /kāmaram,/ which occurs in a CT text. Traditional commentators interpret
> the term as a specific melody by the name /cīkāmaram/.
> See http://www.tamilvu.org/slet/l1100/l1100pd3.jsp?bookid=20&auth_pub_id=68&stpage=157&edpage=157&file=l1130704.htm&id=2&word=தும்பி
> . You will find the same interpretation parroted by other commentators
> with respect to the occurrence of the same word in later texts too. See
> http://www.ifpindia.org/ecrire/upload/digital_database/Site/Digital_Tevaram/U_TEV/VMS1_047.HTM#p3
> . This interpretation of /kāmaram/ as /cīkāmaram/ is as silly as
> equating the word /rāga/ with /Śrīrāga/, a specific melody, and reflects
> these commentators' ignorance of epigraphic evidence of the use of the
> word /kāmaram/. In inscriptions we find an expert musician is often
> given the title /kāmarap pēraraiyan/ which indicates /kāmaram/ referred
> to melodious music in general. Most Tamil professors in Tamil Nadu will
> be unable to explain the term /paṇṇuppeyarttal/ (modal shift of the
> tonic) that occurs in CT texts. To understand such terms one has to use
> musicological works such as Tamiḻicaik Kalaikkaḷañciyam by V. P. K.
> Sundaram.
>
> Similarly for the word /paṉuval/ which meant 'warp' in specific poems,
> the traditional scholars assigned the meaning 'cotton' even though the
> meaning 'warp' is there in the oldest lexical work Tivākaram. They also
> failed to realize that the bards and warriors were not from two
> different strata of the society. Even as late as 11th century, as a
> Tanjavur temple inscription reveals, several performing artists were
> members of highly selective units of the Cōḻa army.
>
> Another example of the upper caste bias can be seen in choosing the
> reading "kaṉṟupeṟu valcip pāṇaṉ" instead of "kaḷiṟupeṟu valcip pāṇaṉ" in
> Nāṟṟiṇai 310.9 referring to a gift received by a bard. Pinnattur
> Narayanasamy Aiyar chose as correct the first variant interpreting the
> bard as one who eats veal.  Although Eva Wilden, the author of the
> critical edition of Nāṟṟiṇai did not argue for the second reading in her
> footnotes in the critical edition, she now agrees with me that the
> second reading is the correct one saying, "It is a case of that PuRam
> topos of the elephant bull as a gift," referring to the custom of bards
> getting bull elephants as gifts from chieftains and kings.
>
> Most of the Western scholars' interpretations/translations of CT texts
> are based on the interpretations of the above-mentioned traditional
> Tamil commentators. As a result, one has to be careful in reading the
> Old Tamil texts. In other words, considerable work needs to be done
> using tools of philological, linguistic, and historical analysis to
> understand the CT texts to excavate the culture that lies behind layers
> of traditional misinterpretation. Unfortunately, many Tamil literary
> scholars in Tamil Nadu do not know history, many historians do not know
> literature, and even if one knows both literature and history, one does
> not know linguistics.
>
> Regards,
> Palaniappan
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Adriano Aprigliano <aprigliano at USP.BR>
> To: INDOLOGY <INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk>
> Sent: Thu, Nov 15, 2012 7:33 am
> Subject: [INDOLOGY] old tamil
>
> Dear colleagues,
>
> A friend asks me about good materials for the study of Old Tamil. What
> would you recommend?
> Best wishes
> Adriano Aprigliano
>
> Post-doc researcher
> Universidade de São Paulo
> São Paulo/SP
> Brasil