From mkapstei at UCHICAGO.EDU  Mon Jun  4 05:16:57 2012
From: mkapstei at UCHICAGO.EDU (mkapstei at UCHICAGO.EDU)
Date: Mon, 04 Jun 12 00:16:57 -0500
Subject: "non-Western" Philosophy
In-Reply-To: <BLU155-W10B4F9740A54764C3622A4A50B0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <161227096394.23782.8229259509994495109.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Some Indology subscribers may be interested in the
following, from the electronic edition of the New York Times:

http://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/06/03/philosophys-western-bias/?ref=global-home

Matthew T. Kapstein
Numata Visiting Professor of Buddhist Studies
The University of Chicago Divinity School
Directeur d'?tudes
Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes, Paris




From dv.fiordalis at GMAIL.COM  Mon Jun  4 15:51:35 2012
From: dv.fiordalis at GMAIL.COM (David Fiordalis)
Date: Mon, 04 Jun 12 08:51:35 -0700
Subject: non-western philosophy as NOT philosophy
Message-ID: <161227096413.23782.10614191920779307043.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Dear colleagues,

On Sun, Jun 3, 2012 at 10:16 PM, <mkapstei at uchicago.edu> wrote:
Some Indology subscribers may be interested in the
following, from the electronic edition of the New York Times:

http://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/06/03/philosophys-western-bias/?ref=global-home


As someone who will be teaching an intro course called "Philosophy East and
West" this coming academic year, the article Justin Smith published in
nytimes.com resonated with me. I'm glad that Matthew Kapstein posted it to
this list.

This may not be the most appropriate forum to ask, but given the wide
reading of the members of this list, maybe some will have good suggestions
to the following query. I'm currently looking for are clear, accessible
statements -- proof-texts if you like -- from Western philosophical
literature of the claim that non-western philosophy (Indian, Chinese,
Islamic, African, etc.) is not philosophy or is otherwise lesser in some
respect. Most often, this is an implicit assumption or one easily follows.
I'm looking for a few choice quotes or short readings that will make an
impact undergraduates with little to no prior exposure to the issue.

Thanks for any suggestions you might have.

Sincerely,

David Fiordalis
Linfield College


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From kellera at UNIV-PARIS-DIDEROT.FR  Mon Jun  4 07:13:50 2012
From: kellera at UNIV-PARIS-DIDEROT.FR (Agathe Keller)
Date: Mon, 04 Jun 12 09:13:50 +0200
Subject: Call for applications PhD position extended: June 20th
Message-ID: <161227096397.23782.9278046053684811627.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Dear colleagues,

Toke Knudsen had posted two months back a call for applications for a 
PhD position on "The history of mathematics in ancient and medieval 
Indic sources related to administrative contexts". We are now extending 
the deadline to the 20th of June. Please do encourage your students to 
apply. Do not hesitate to contact me for further information.

yours,

Agathe Keller


A DOCTORAL SCHOLARSHIP IN THE HISTORY OF MATHEMATICS IN ANCIENT AND 
MEDIEVAL INDIC SOURCES RELATED TO ADMINISTRATIVE CONTEXTS

The European Research Council Project SAW: Mathematical Sciences in the 
Ancient World: New Theoretical Approaches to the Sources and 
Socio-Political Issues of the Present Day is calling for applications 
for a full-time doctoral researcher.

General aims of the project. The SAW project is dedicated to 
mathematical sources that have come down to us from the ancient world, 
specifically, though not exclusively, to the sources produced in 
Mesopotamia, China, and the Indian sub-continent. The ambition of SAW is 
to develop new theoretical approaches to the history of ancient 
mathematics in order to highlight a motley of practices within what at 
the present day too often are presented as homogeneous wholes, that is, 
?Mesopotamian mathematics?, ?Chinese mathematics?, and ?Indian 
mathematics?. To this end, SAW intends to concentrate systematically on 
the mathematical sources produced in relation to two sectors of activity 
in the ancient world: the practice of the astral sciences and the 
administrations in charge of financial matters. A goal of the project is 
also to shape methods that ground our interpretation of ancient sources 
in the critical awareness that a material and social history of the 
archives, libraries, and collections of sources provides. SAW intends to 
carry out a reflection on the history of historiography of mathematics. 
The main focus of SAW in that direction will be on the key general 
operations which are at play in the making of the historiography of 
ancient sciences, such as the shaping of critical editions.

Description of the topic attached to the present scholarship. The 
primary aim of this doctoral scholarship will be to do research on 
Sanskrit or other Indic language sources. Striking parallels can be made 
between ancient and medieval law treatises (dharma??stras), the 
artha??stra, and related epigraphical documents on the one hand and 
medieval scholarly mathematical texts, especially those openly concerned 
with worldly practices (lokavyavah?ra), on the other. The list of topics 
is large: from the leverage of taxes, to measuring units related to 
grain, from the minting of coins, rates for loans, to the rations with 
which to feed royal elephants! Is it possible to imagine a social 
context which explains such connections? Drawing on the existence of 
given local milieu dealing with temple administrations, merchants 
guilds, village administrations or local governments, can one identify 
specific required mathematical practices? In return, using law and 
administrative texts as a background, is it possible to shed new light 
on the complex classifications of mathematics involving operations, 
reductions of fractions, and numerous applications? Could such 
structures testify to attempts at giving a more global theoretical 
backdrop to the kind of problems administrations and guilds raised? 
Candidates will be expected to explore these questions with specific 
sources and topics.
Applicants must hold an MA degree or equivalent in history, history of 
science, Indian studies, Indology, Mathematics, or a related discipline. 
They should possess relevant knowledge in mathematics and philology 
(Sanskrit, pali, prakrt, or other Indic languages) or be able to 
demonstrate their ability to acquire such knowledge. They must be fluent 
in English and be willing to learn French. Researchers of all 
nationalities are welcome to apply.

Applications should include the following:
a full CV (including a list of publications where appropriate)
an outline (2 pages maximum) of the research project in line with SAW 
objectives
one recent sample of academic writing
a copy of the most recent diploma
transcripts of academic grades
names of two referees

The deadline for applications is: *20 June 2012* (for the post to be 
taken up as of 1 September 2012 or as early as possible thereafter). 
Short-listed candidates will be informed at the beginning of July 2012. 
Phone or Skype interviews with top-listed candidates are expected to 
take place during the first week of July 2012.

The scholarship is granted for one year renewable for two additional 
years, pending positive evaluation. The monthly stipend amounts to 1430 
euros. It includes social security benefits and retirement provisions. 
The scholarship recipient will prepare a doctoral dissertation under the 
supervision of Agathe Keller at the Paris Diderot University, France. 
He/she will need to complete all requirements for the doctoral degree at 
the University Paris Diderot.

Applications should be sent to the SAW Project Director Karine Chemla by 
email only: chemla at univ-paris-diderot.fr. It is recommended to request 
an email acknowledgement of receipt.

Information on the SAW project is available online at 
http://www.sphere.univ-paris-diderot.fr/?-ERC-Project-SAW-&lang=en

For informal discussion on the scholarship please contact Agathe Keller, 
kellera at univ-paris-diderot.fr




From jkirk at SPRO.NET  Mon Jun  4 16:11:03 2012
From: jkirk at SPRO.NET (Jo)
Date: Mon, 04 Jun 12 10:11:03 -0600
Subject: "non-Western" Philosophy
In-Reply-To: <20120604001657.BDP13097@mstore02.uchicago.edu>
Message-ID: <161227096416.23782.8380839907536977383.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

" An alternative approach to the history of philosophy ? one that takes the
aim of opening up the discipline seriously ? would treat both Western and
non-Western philosophy as the regional inflections of a global phenomenon."

Brilliant article, a view shared by a few and long overdue. 
But how stuck in their ethnocentric mire are our universities??

Joanna Kirkpatrick
Anthropologist


-----Original Message-----
From: Indology [mailto:INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk] On Behalf Of
mkapstei at UCHICAGO.EDU
Sent: Sunday, June 03, 2012 11:17 PM
To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk
Subject: [INDOLOGY] "non-Western" Philosophy

Some Indology subscribers may be interested in the following, from the
electronic edition of the New York Times:

http://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/06/03/philosophys-western-bias/?re
f=global-home

Matthew T. Kapstein
Numata Visiting Professor of Buddhist Studies The University of Chicago
Divinity School Directeur d'?tudes Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes, Paris




From a.bowles1 at UQ.EDU.AU  Mon Jun  4 12:34:30 2012
From: a.bowles1 at UQ.EDU.AU (Adam Bowles)
Date: Mon, 04 Jun 12 12:34:30 +0000
Subject: branding and children
Message-ID: <161227096399.23782.18139111987312883142.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Dear colleagues,

A third party has asked me for information on the practice of branding as part of traditional medical practice in South Asia or in the Fijian Hindu community, especially in respect to children. Can anyone point me in the direction of useful material?

Many thanks
Adam


Dr Adam Bowles
Lecturer in Asian Religions
School of History, Philosophy, Religion and Classics
Faculty of Arts
The University of Queensland
Tel: +61 7 33656324
Email: a.bowles1 at uq.edu.au<mailto:a.bowles1 at uq.edu.au>
Web: http://www.uq.edu.au/hprc/dr-adam-bowles
[FaceBook-icon]<http://www.facebook.com/pages/Studies-in-Religion-at-UQ/362132947148321>

Associate Editor, South Asia: Journal of South Asian Studies
http://www.tandf.co.uk/journals/titles/00856401.asp

CRICOS Provider Number: 00025B

This email is intended solely for the addressee. It may contain private or confidential information. If you are not the intended addressee, you must take no action based on it, nor show a copy to anyone.  Kindly notify the sender by reply email.  Opinions and information in this email which do not relate to the official business of The University of Queensland shall be understood as neither given nor endorsed by the University.


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From mkapstei at UCHICAGO.EDU  Mon Jun  4 19:59:02 2012
From: mkapstei at UCHICAGO.EDU (mkapstei at UCHICAGO.EDU)
Date: Mon, 04 Jun 12 14:59:02 -0500
Subject: non-western philosophy as NOT philosophy
In-Reply-To: <CAKo7qP17JAi-u=fJYX_wDEW9eTpWj+mHGxqz-_75h_xB9mdFjA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <161227096426.23782.14951146105018340596.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

David,

Some examples will be found in my Reason's Traces, intro
and ch. 1 and the notes thereon.

Matthew

Matthew T. Kapstein
Numata Visiting Professor of Buddhist Studies
The University of Chicago Divinity School
Directeur d'?tudes
Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes, Paris




From mkapstei at UCHICAGO.EDU  Mon Jun  4 20:17:10 2012
From: mkapstei at UCHICAGO.EDU (mkapstei at UCHICAGO.EDU)
Date: Mon, 04 Jun 12 15:17:10 -0500
Subject: non-western philosophy as NOT philosophy
In-Reply-To: <7FAA2E17-3DFB-41B6-81A1-F20F40213978@cofc.edu>
Message-ID: <161227096434.23782.17231532219248461296.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

I agree with Cristian that things have changed for the
better since Flew's day, at least among Anglophone
philosophers.

Matthew T. Kapstein
Numata Visiting Professor of Buddhist Studies
The University of Chicago Divinity School
Directeur d'?tudes
Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes, Paris




From coseruc at COFC.EDU  Mon Jun  4 20:02:27 2012
From: coseruc at COFC.EDU (Coseru, Christian)
Date: Mon, 04 Jun 12 16:02:27 -0400
Subject: AW: [INDOLOGY] Indian philosophy as philosophy
In-Reply-To: <1ED2F08480CEB74FB91BD2BC070F8E0137BDB73AF1@MBX02.ad.uni-heidelberg.de>
Message-ID: <161227096432.23782.4338389221180404608.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Having just completed a two week NEH Summer Institute on cross-cultural philosophical approaches to the study of consciousness, which I co-directed with Jay Garfield and Evan Thompson, I'd like to share with members of this list a few thoughts on this complex issue.

It is simply not the case (at least not anymore) that most Western philosophers still concur with Anthony Few's uncharitable remark (that Birgit cites). We had a representative group of analytic philosophers of mind and phenomenologists at our Institute, all of whom were eager to learn what Buddhist philosophy might have to contribute to a whole host of issues in philosophy of mind. 

I would venture to say that by and large the recent generation of Western philosophers moving up through the ranks right now is quite aware that there is a rich tradition of systematic reflection in India (or China); it's just that many of the issues that concern contemporary philosophers are quite removed from those that preoccupy scholars of classical, medieval and early modern philosophers in both India and the West.

In anglophone philosophy, as is well known, there is this rather sharp (some might say unfortunate) distinction between those who do history of philosophy and those who do philosophy proper! Historians work on classical and modern figures in the canon (Plato, Descartes, Leibniz, Kant, etc.), and the rest are engaged with current issues (the analytic/synthetic distinction, mental causation, emergentism, personal identity, conceivability arguments, the mind-body problem, naturalism, functionalism, indexicals, etc.). Philosophers working on these issues sometime pay lip service to Descartes, Hume or Kant as the originators of a given problem, but their approach is analytic rather than exegetical.

Much of what goes on in the name of Indian (and Buddhist) philosophy follows the exegetical model, and most debates focus on getting at what Bhart?hari or Dharmak?rti or Gange?a might have said about some topic or another. With very few exceptions specialists in Indian philosophy write for other specialists in their field. Now, there is nothing wrong with that, just as there is nothing wrong with working on Hellenistic philosophy or Thomism. It's just a different sort of endeavor.

So, when an influential contemporary analytic philosopher like David Chalmers asks the Buddhist scholar to provide arguments about, say, the no-self doctrine, the Buddhist scholar's typical response is to say, well, the Nik?ys say this, and the Abhidharma traditions say that, and Candrak?rti says this or that, and then there are all these debates between different schools. But wait a minute: this is only true for Indian Buddhism. In Chinese or Tibetan Buddhism things get even more complicated, and so on and so forth. At that point the contemporary philosopher has lost interest. 

And then there is the institutional bias, since most of those trained in Indian philosophy operate outside philosophy department. Until (and unless) more specialists in non-Western philosophy get hired in top philosophy programs around the world, there is little hope things will change for the better. 

If you want to see some recent reactions to this plea for more representation of non-Western philosophy in philosophy departments, please read the comments on the APPS blog:

http://www.newappsblog.com/2012/06/can-we-make-philosophy-a-little-less-provincial.html#comments

Best regards,
Christian Coseru


Christian Coseru
Associate Professor of Philosophy
Department of Philosophy
College of Charleston
66 George Street
Charleston, SC 29424

Office:
Phone: 843 953-1935
Facsimile: 843 953-6388
Email: coseruc at cofc.edu

On Jun 4, 2012, at 2:14 PM, Kellner, Birgit wrote:

> I am wondering, though, to what extent the "no real philosophy to the east of the Suez" view is still advocated as a serious argument with real conviction (and thus still needs being addressed). This may vary between Russia and (for instance) Germany, of course. 
> 
> My more recent experiences with philosophers who were reluctant to engage with philosophical ideas from India suggest that fatigue and practical difficulties have become more prevalent - "oh, it's all very nice, it's certainly real systematic philosophy what you are telling us, but I can't be bothered with it because the day only has 24 hours and there is really so much of interest in Western philosophy which I can access without having to learn a language as difficult as Sanskrit". I haven't met any philosopher who seriously believes there is no Indian philosophy in quite some time (or read anything to that effect). Apart from this, I'm also wondering how seriously we still should take such claims, should we encounter them. Shouldn't the burden of knowledge long have been shifted to the other side? Should philosophers not be made to feel embarrassed for having such gaping holes in their general education such as not knowing of one of the great philosophical traditions of the world? 
> 
> Best regards, 
> 
> Birgit Kellner
> 
> ----------
> Prof. Dr. Birgit Kellner
> Chair of Buddhist Studies
> Cluster of Excellence "Asia and Europe in a Global Context - Shifting Asymmetries in Cultural Flows"
> University of Heidelberg
> Karl Jaspers Centre
> Vossstra?e 2, Building 4400
> D-69115 Heidelberg
> Phone: +49(0)6221 - 54 4301
> Fax: +49(0)6221 - 54 4012
> http://www.asia-europe.uni-heidelberg.de/en/home.html
> ________________________________________
> Von: Indology [INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk] im Auftrag von Viktoria Lyssenko [vglyssenko at YANDEX.RU]
> Gesendet: Montag, 4. Juni 2012 16:39
> An: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk
> Betreff: [INDOLOGY] Indian philosophy as philosophy
> 
> Dear indologists-philosophers,
> While working at the Institute of philosophy I often come across europeocentrism as well as the arrogance of those of my colleagues who believe that philosophy is an exclusively Western phenomenon.  To make them change their mind or, at least, cast a glance beyond their horizon I have developed a number of apologetic arguments for Indian philosophy as a philosophy in its own right. Those who are interested may read the text of my lecture to a non-indological audience which is attached to this letter. I would like to suggest to those who have something to say on this subject to make a special issue of some journal (it is for you to decide which one).
> With best regards,
> Victoria Lysenko
> 
> Head of Oriental Department,
> Institute of Philosophy
> Russian Academy of Sciences
> Moscow



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From CoseruC at COFC.EDU  Mon Jun  4 20:09:31 2012
From: CoseruC at COFC.EDU (Coseru, Cristian)
Date: Mon, 04 Jun 12 16:09:31 -0400
Subject: non-western philosophy as NOT philosophy
In-Reply-To: <20120604145902.BDP94237@mstore02.uchicago.edu>
Message-ID: <161227096429.23782.17082775099183582517.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Having just completed a two week NEH Summer Institute on cross-cultural philosophical approaches to the study of consciousness, which I co-directed with Jay Garfield and Evan Thompson, I'd like to share with members of this list a few thoughts on this complex issue.

It is simply not the case (at least not anymore) that most Western philosophers still concur with Anthony Few's uncharitable remark (that Birgit cites). We had a representative group of analytic philosophers of mind and phenomenologists at our Institute, all of whom were eager to learn what Buddhist philosophy might have to contribute to a whole host of issues in philosophy of mind. 

I would venture to say that by and large the recent generation of Western philosophers moving up through the ranks right now is quite aware that there is a rich tradition of systematic reflection in India (or China); it's just that many of the issues that concern contemporary philosophers are quite removed from those that preoccupy scholars of classical, medieval and early modern philosophers in both India and the West.

In anglophone philosophy, as is well known, there is this rather sharp (some might say unfortunate) distinction between those who do history of philosophy and those who do philosophy proper! Historians work on classical and modern figures in the canon (Plato, Descartes, Leibniz, Kant, etc.), and the rest are engaged with current issues (the analytic/synthetic distinction, mental causation, emergentism, personal identity, conceivability arguments, the mind-body problem, naturalism, functionalism, indexicals, etc.). Philosophers working on these issues sometime pay lip service to Descartes, Hume or Kant as the originators of a given problem, but their approach is analytic rather than exegetical.

Much of what goes on in the name of Indian (and Buddhist) philosophy follows the exegetical model, and most debates focus on getting at what Bhart?hari or Dharmak?rti or Gange?a might have said about some topic or another. With very few exceptions specialists in Indian philosophy write for other specialists in their field. Now, there is nothing wrong with that, just as there is nothing wrong with working on Hellenistic philosophy or Thomism. It's just a different sort of endeavor.

So, when an influential contemporary analytic philosopher like David Chalmers asks the Buddhist scholar to provide arguments about, say, the no-self doctrine, the Buddhist scholar's typical response is to say, well, the Nik?ys say this, and the Abhidharma traditions say that, and Candrak?rti says this or that, and then there are all these debates between different schools. But wait a minute: this is only true for Indian Buddhism. In Chinese or Tibetan Buddhism things get even more complicated, and so on and so forth. At that point the contemporary philosopher has lost interest. 

And then there is the institutional bias, since most of those trained in Indian philosophy operate outside philosophy department. Until (and unless) more specialists in non-Western philosophy get hired in top philosophy programs around the world, there is little hope things will change for the better. 

If you want to see some recent reactions to this plea for more representation of non-Western philosophy in philosophy departments, please read the comments on the APPS blog:

http://www.newappsblog.com/2012/06/can-we-make-philosophy-a-little-less-provincial.html#comments

Best regards,
Christian Coseru


Christian Coseru
Associate Professor of Philosophy
Department of Philosophy
College of Charleston
66 George Street
Charleston, SC 29424

Office:
Phone: 843 953-1935
Facsimile: 843 953-6388
Email: coseruc at cofc.edu


On Jun 4, 2012, at 3:59 PM, "mkapstei at UCHICAGO.EDU" <mkapstei at UCHICAGO.EDU> wrote:

> David,
> 
> Some examples will be found in my Reason's Traces, intro
> and ch. 1 and the notes thereon.
> 
> Matthew
> 
> Matthew T. Kapstein
> Numata Visiting Professor of Buddhist Studies
> The University of Chicago Divinity School
> Directeur d'?tudes
> Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes, Paris


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From christophe.vielle at UCLOUVAIN.BE  Mon Jun  4 14:59:24 2012
From: christophe.vielle at UCLOUVAIN.BE (Christophe Vielle)
Date: Mon, 04 Jun 12 16:59:24 +0200
Subject: Verpoorten's book and article
Message-ID: <161227096410.23782.13403334749450295894.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Dear Members of the list,
My colleague and friend Jean-Marie Verpoorten, whose last book on  karman,  j?ti  and  sa?s?ra in early Buddhism is just issued
(see http://indologica.de/drupal/?q=node/2027 /  http://www.peeters-leuven.be/boekoverz.asp?nr=9084 )
asks me if it is possible for someone to provide him with a copy (.pdf or paper) of Jean-Marie Verpoorten's article entitled
"Les dieux v?diques Varu?a et Indra dans le Canon Bouddhique P?li", 
issued in Studia Asiatica : Revue internationale d'?tudes asiatiques = International Journal for Asian studies  (Romanian Association for the History of Religions ; Institute for the History of Religions, Romanian Academy, Bucharest), vol. 11/1-2 (= Proceedings of the 6th EASR / IAHR Special Conference Religious History of Europe and Asia, Bucharest, 20-23 September 2006, Volume 4-5), 2010, pp. 173-182 (see http://www.ihr-acad.ro/docs/periodice/stvdia_asiatica_xi_2010_1-7.pdf 
Apparently not yet available at: http://www.ceeol.com/aspx/publicationdetails.aspx?publicationid=7a5d5159-bbc2-4612-8ecd-666921f57978).
He is indeed himself unable to get a copy of his own contribution... that he would like to read in its published form!
Thanks for him
(in the case you can help, you can email me or him <jmverpoorten at gmail.com>)
With best wishes,
Christophe Vielle


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From Joseph.Walser at TUFTS.EDU  Mon Jun  4 18:27:39 2012
From: Joseph.Walser at TUFTS.EDU (Walser, Joseph)
Date: Mon, 04 Jun 12 18:27:39 +0000
Subject: Indian philosophy as philosophy
In-Reply-To: <1ED2F08480CEB74FB91BD2BC070F8E0137BDB73AF1@MBX02.ad.uni-heidelberg.de>
Message-ID: <161227096422.23782.1455545889330853215.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

When I came to Tufts in 1998, I was told that there was a member of the philosophy department who would often declare that "no cogent argument had ever been formulated east of the Bosphorus." The two people who reported this to me were reluctant to tell me who it was who said it, and I really did not want to know. All of this is to say that I have little doubt that there are still a few die hard "Westernists" (not sure what to call them) in the US at least. For what it is worth, I have not heard a peep of that kind of nonsense from our philosophers since I got here. I have, however, heard variations on the theme from professors in other departments. So I do think the basic points of Smith's essay are well worth saying. 
-j


Joseph Walser

Associate Professor

Department of Religion

Tufts University

________________________________________
From: Indology [INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk] on behalf of Kellner, Birgit [kellner at ASIA-EUROPE.UNI-HEIDELBERG.DE]
Sent: Monday, June 04, 2012 2:14 PM
To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk
Subject: [INDOLOGY] AW: [INDOLOGY] Indian philosophy as philosophy

I am wondering, though, to what extent the "no real philosophy to the east of the Suez" view is still advocated as a serious argument with real conviction (and thus still needs being addressed). This may vary between Russia and (for instance) Germany, of course.

My more recent experiences with philosophers who were reluctant to engage with philosophical ideas from India suggest that fatigue and practical difficulties have become more prevalent - "oh, it's all very nice, it's certainly real systematic philosophy what you are telling us, but I can't be bothered with it because the day only has 24 hours and there is really so much of interest in Western philosophy which I can access without having to learn a language as difficult as Sanskrit". I haven't met any philosopher who seriously believes there is no Indian philosophy in quite some time (or read anything to that effect). Apart from this, I'm also wondering how seriously we still should take such claims, should we encounter them. Shouldn't the burden of knowledge long have been shifted to the other side? Should philosophers not be made to feel embarrassed for having such gaping holes in their general education such as not knowing of one of the great philosophical traditions of the world?

Best regards,

Birgit Kellner

----------
Prof. Dr. Birgit Kellner
Chair of Buddhist Studies
Cluster of Excellence "Asia and Europe in a Global Context - Shifting Asymmetries in Cultural Flows"
University of Heidelberg
Karl Jaspers Centre
Vossstra?e 2, Building 4400
D-69115 Heidelberg
Phone: +49(0)6221 - 54 4301
Fax: +49(0)6221 - 54 4012
http://www.asia-europe.uni-heidelberg.de/en/home.html
________________________________________
Von: Indology [INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk] im Auftrag von Viktoria Lyssenko [vglyssenko at YANDEX.RU]
Gesendet: Montag, 4. Juni 2012 16:39
An: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk
Betreff: [INDOLOGY] Indian philosophy as philosophy

Dear indologists-philosophers,
While working at the Institute of philosophy I often come across europeocentrism as well as the arrogance of those of my colleagues who believe that philosophy is an exclusively Western phenomenon.  To make them change their mind or, at least, cast a glance beyond their horizon I have developed a number of apologetic arguments for Indian philosophy as a philosophy in its own right. Those who are interested may read the text of my lecture to a non-indological audience which is attached to this letter. I would like to suggest to those who have something to say on this subject to make a special issue of some journal (it is for you to decide which one).
With best regards,
Victoria Lysenko

Head of Oriental Department,
Institute of Philosophy
Russian Academy of Sciences
Moscow




From vglyssenko at YANDEX.RU  Mon Jun  4 14:39:51 2012
From: vglyssenko at YANDEX.RU (Viktoria Lyssenko)
Date: Mon, 04 Jun 12 18:39:51 +0400
Subject: Indian philosophy as philosophy
Message-ID: <161227096406.23782.2450558889120759979.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Dear indologists-philosophers,
While working at the Institute of philosophy I often come across europeocentrism as well as the arrogance of those of my colleagues who believe that philosophy is an exclusively Western phenomenon.  To make them change their mind or, at least, cast a glance beyond their horizon I have developed a number of apologetic arguments for Indian philosophy as a philosophy in its own right. Those who are interested may read the text of my lecture to a non-indological audience which is attached to this letter. I would like to suggest to those who have something to say on this subject to make a special issue of some journal (it is for you to decide which one).
With best regards,
Victoria Lysenko

Head of Oriental Department,
Institute of Philosophy
Russian Academy of Sciences
Moscow 
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From tcoleman at COLORADOCOLLEGE.EDU  Mon Jun  4 19:41:34 2012
From: tcoleman at COLORADOCOLLEGE.EDU (Tracy Coleman)
Date: Mon, 04 Jun 12 19:41:34 +0000
Subject: Indian philosophy as philosophy
In-Reply-To: <E5F571B94D36DB4AA048E0CF279CFC70015C0ADC@SSVMEXDAG01MB01.tufts.ad.tufts.edu>
Message-ID: <161227096424.23782.2432026596113417558.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Whether or not people are vocal western supremacists, if you will, is not really indicative of pervasive biases, which are often revealed in curricula, in all-college requirements, in major requirements vs. "electives" (for programs at all levels), and in the disciplinary expertise of faculty in departments of philosophy and religion (not to mention history, political science, and etc.).  The program book of the AAR-SBL, moreover, makes very clear which religions are really worth studying and discussing among professionals; the number of sessions devoted to the so-called eastern religions is astonishingly small compared to the sessions devoted to Christianity by various names and specialized topics.  --Tracy Coleman, Colorado College
________________________________________
From: Indology [INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk] on behalf of Walser, Joseph [Joseph.Walser at TUFTS.EDU]
Sent: Monday, June 04, 2012 12:27 PM
To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk
Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] Indian philosophy as philosophy

When I came to Tufts in 1998, I was told that there was a member of the philosophy department who would often declare that "no cogent argument had ever been formulated east of the Bosphorus." The two people who reported this to me were reluctant to tell me who it was who said it, and I really did not want to know. All of this is to say that I have little doubt that there are still a few die hard "Westernists" (not sure what to call them) in the US at least. For what it is worth, I have not heard a peep of that kind of nonsense from our philosophers since I got here. I have, however, heard variations on the theme from professors in other departments. So I do think the basic points of Smith's essay are well worth saying.
-j


Joseph Walser

Associate Professor

Department of Religion

Tufts University

________________________________________
From: Indology [INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk] on behalf of Kellner, Birgit [kellner at ASIA-EUROPE.UNI-HEIDELBERG.DE]
Sent: Monday, June 04, 2012 2:14 PM
To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk
Subject: [INDOLOGY] AW: [INDOLOGY] Indian philosophy as philosophy

I am wondering, though, to what extent the "no real philosophy to the east of the Suez" view is still advocated as a serious argument with real conviction (and thus still needs being addressed). This may vary between Russia and (for instance) Germany, of course.

My more recent experiences with philosophers who were reluctant to engage with philosophical ideas from India suggest that fatigue and practical difficulties have become more prevalent - "oh, it's all very nice, it's certainly real systematic philosophy what you are telling us, but I can't be bothered with it because the day only has 24 hours and there is really so much of interest in Western philosophy which I can access without having to learn a language as difficult as Sanskrit". I haven't met any philosopher who seriously believes there is no Indian philosophy in quite some time (or read anything to that effect). Apart from this, I'm also wondering how seriously we still should take such claims, should we encounter them. Shouldn't the burden of knowledge long have been shifted to the other side? Should philosophers not be made to feel embarrassed for having such gaping holes in their general education such as not knowing of one of the great philosophical traditions of the world?

Best regards,

Birgit Kellner

----------
Prof. Dr. Birgit Kellner
Chair of Buddhist Studies
Cluster of Excellence "Asia and Europe in a Global Context - Shifting Asymmetries in Cultural Flows"
University of Heidelberg
Karl Jaspers Centre
Vossstra?e 2, Building 4400
D-69115 Heidelberg
Phone: +49(0)6221 - 54 4301
Fax: +49(0)6221 - 54 4012
http://www.asia-europe.uni-heidelberg.de/en/home.html
________________________________________
Von: Indology [INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk] im Auftrag von Viktoria Lyssenko [vglyssenko at YANDEX.RU]
Gesendet: Montag, 4. Juni 2012 16:39
An: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk
Betreff: [INDOLOGY] Indian philosophy as philosophy

Dear indologists-philosophers,
While working at the Institute of philosophy I often come across europeocentrism as well as the arrogance of those of my colleagues who believe that philosophy is an exclusively Western phenomenon.  To make them change their mind or, at least, cast a glance beyond their horizon I have developed a number of apologetic arguments for Indian philosophy as a philosophy in its own right. Those who are interested may read the text of my lecture to a non-indological audience which is attached to this letter. I would like to suggest to those who have something to say on this subject to make a special issue of some journal (it is for you to decide which one).
With best regards,
Victoria Lysenko

Head of Oriental Department,
Institute of Philosophy
Russian Academy of Sciences
Moscow




From kellner at ASIA-EUROPE.UNI-HEIDELBERG.DE  Mon Jun  4 18:14:01 2012
From: kellner at ASIA-EUROPE.UNI-HEIDELBERG.DE (Kellner, Birgit)
Date: Mon, 04 Jun 12 20:14:01 +0200
Subject: AW: [INDOLOGY] Indian philosophy as philosophy
In-Reply-To: <330451338820791@web17e.yandex.ru>
Message-ID: <161227096419.23782.3718451335584735317.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

I am wondering, though, to what extent the "no real philosophy to the east of the Suez" view is still advocated as a serious argument with real conviction (and thus still needs being addressed). This may vary between Russia and (for instance) Germany, of course. 
 
My more recent experiences with philosophers who were reluctant to engage with philosophical ideas from India suggest that fatigue and practical difficulties have become more prevalent - "oh, it's all very nice, it's certainly real systematic philosophy what you are telling us, but I can't be bothered with it because the day only has 24 hours and there is really so much of interest in Western philosophy which I can access without having to learn a language as difficult as Sanskrit". I haven't met any philosopher who seriously believes there is no Indian philosophy in quite some time (or read anything to that effect). Apart from this, I'm also wondering how seriously we still should take such claims, should we encounter them. Shouldn't the burden of knowledge long have been shifted to the other side? Should philosophers not be made to feel embarrassed for having such gaping holes in their general education such as not knowing of one of the great philosophical traditions of the world? 
 
Best regards, 
 
Birgit Kellner

----------
Prof. Dr. Birgit Kellner
Chair of Buddhist Studies
Cluster of Excellence "Asia and Europe in a Global Context - Shifting Asymmetries in Cultural Flows"
University of Heidelberg
Karl Jaspers Centre
Vossstra?e 2, Building 4400
D-69115 Heidelberg
Phone: +49(0)6221 - 54 4301
Fax: +49(0)6221 - 54 4012
http://www.asia-europe.uni-heidelberg.de/en/home.html
________________________________________
Von: Indology [INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk] im Auftrag von Viktoria Lyssenko [vglyssenko at YANDEX.RU]
Gesendet: Montag, 4. Juni 2012 16:39
An: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk
Betreff: [INDOLOGY] Indian philosophy as philosophy

Dear indologists-philosophers,
While working at the Institute of philosophy I often come across europeocentrism as well as the arrogance of those of my colleagues who believe that philosophy is an exclusively Western phenomenon.  To make them change their mind or, at least, cast a glance beyond their horizon I have developed a number of apologetic arguments for Indian philosophy as a philosophy in its own right. Those who are interested may read the text of my lecture to a non-indological audience which is attached to this letter. I would like to suggest to those who have something to say on this subject to make a special issue of some journal (it is for you to decide which one).
With best regards,
Victoria Lysenko

Head of Oriental Department,
Institute of Philosophy
Russian Academy of Sciences
Moscow




From westerhoff at CANTAB.NET  Tue Jun  5 13:29:16 2012
From: westerhoff at CANTAB.NET (Jan Westerhoff)
Date: Tue, 05 Jun 12 14:29:16 +0100
Subject: non-western philosophy as NOT philosophy
In-Reply-To: <CAKo7qP17JAi-u=fJYX_wDEW9eTpWj+mHGxqz-_75h_xB9mdFjA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <161227096436.23782.17454200831460084005.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

David,
some interesting discussion of this matter (together with relevant quotes)
can be found in the introductory section of Jonardon Ganeri's: Indian
Logic: A Reader (Routledge 2001).

Regards

Jan


On Mon, June 4, 2012 16:51, David Fiordalis wrote:
> Dear colleagues,
>
>
> On Sun, Jun 3, 2012 at 10:16 PM, <mkapstei at uchicago.edu> wrote:
> Some Indology subscribers may be interested in the
> following, from the electronic edition of the New York Times:
>
> http://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/06/03/philosophys-western-bias/
> ?ref=global-home
>
>
>
> As someone who will be teaching an intro course called "Philosophy East
> and West" this coming academic year, the article Justin Smith published in
>  nytimes.com resonated with me. I'm glad that Matthew Kapstein posted it
> to this list.
>
> This may not be the most appropriate forum to ask, but given the wide
> reading of the members of this list, maybe some will have good suggestions
>  to the following query. I'm currently looking for are clear, accessible
> statements -- proof-texts if you like -- from Western philosophical
> literature of the claim that non-western philosophy (Indian, Chinese,
> Islamic, African, etc.) is not philosophy or is otherwise lesser in some
> respect. Most often, this is an implicit assumption or one easily follows.
>  I'm looking for a few choice quotes or short readings that will make an
> impact undergraduates with little to no prior exposure to the issue.
>
> Thanks for any suggestions you might have.
>
>
> Sincerely,
>
>
> David Fiordalis
> Linfield College
>
>


***************************
JC Westerhoff
Department of Philosophy
University of Durham
50 Old Elvet
Durham DH1 3HN
United Kingdom

www.janwesterhoff.net
westerhoff at cantab.net




From alanus1216 at YAHOO.COM  Tue Jun  5 22:26:37 2012
From: alanus1216 at YAHOO.COM (Allen Thrasher)
Date: Tue, 05 Jun 12 15:26:37 -0700
Subject: branding and children
In-Reply-To: <CBF2E874.65F0%a.bowles1@uq.edu.au>
Message-ID: <161227096441.23782.1976399756458690081.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

This is not directly about the medical aspect, but there is a book examining the liceity of branding with religious emblems:
?
OCLC number 475470831Va?jasaneyinam-Upanayana Paddhati : [Taptamudran?kan-Sami?ks?a]Document Type:Book 
All Authors / Contributors:Ramdatta, Mahamaktak t??akur.; Ramchandra Jha 
Find more information about: Ramdatta, Mahamaktak t??akur. Ramchandra Jha   
OCLC Number:475470831 
Description:120 s. 
Series Title:Mithila? Granthmala, 11 
Responsibility:ed. with 'Indumati' commentary and notes by Pt Ramchandra Jha. 
?
I think but am not sure this is about using Vaishnava emblems (Zankha, GaDA, etc.).? You see the little brass wire implements for these insignia in antique stores.? I think they are sometimes used for branding, sometimes for marking the body with sandalwood.? D. D. Kosambi gave Horace Poleman a set to the Library of Congress.
?
It is also possible that in the course of a dharmashastric examination of the issue the medical aspects might be mentioned.? I have never read it so do not know.
?
If the above record does not transmit passibly well I will try again.
?
Allen
?
?


________________________________
From: Adam Bowles <a.bowles1 at UQ.EDU.AU>
To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk 
Sent: Monday, June 4, 2012 8:34 AM
Subject: [INDOLOGY] branding and children


Dear colleagues,

A third party has asked me for information on the practice of?branding as part of traditional medical practice in South Asia or in the Fijian Hindu community, especially in respect to children. Can anyone point me in the direction of useful material?

Many thanks
Adam


Dr Adam Bowles
Lecturer in Asian Religions
School of History, Philosophy, Religion and Classics
Faculty of Arts
The University of Queensland
Tel: +61 7 33656324
Email:?a.bowles1 at uq.edu.au
Web:?http://www.uq.edu.au/hprc/dr-adam-bowles
?

Associate Editor,?South Asia: Journal of South Asian Studies
http://www.tandf.co.uk/journals/titles/00856401.asp?

CRICOS Provider Number: 00025B

This email is intended solely for the addressee. It may contain private or confidential information. If you are not the intended addressee, you must take no action based on it, nor show a copy to anyone.? Kindly notify the sender by reply email.? Opinions and information in this email which do not relate to the official business of The University of Queensland shall be understood as neither given nor endorsed by the University.


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From C.Wooff at LIVERPOOL.AC.UK  Tue Jun  5 18:53:51 2012
From: C.Wooff at LIVERPOOL.AC.UK (Wooff, Chris)
Date: Tue, 05 Jun 12 18:53:51 +0000
Subject: Fwd: Sad News
In-Reply-To: <4E09256D-253E-4771-8A4C-71BA863C7791@berkeley.edu>
Message-ID: <161227096438.23782.13981454913314343633.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

FYI

Sent from my iPad

Begin forwarded message:

From: Robert Goldman <rpg at berkeley.edu<mailto:rpg at berkeley.edu>>
Date: 5 June 2012 18:59:41 GMT+01:00
To: <INDOLOGY-request at liverpool.ac.uk<mailto:INDOLOGY-request at liverpool.ac.uk>>
Subject: Sad News

Dear Colleagues,

I have just received the following sad news about the passing of Dr. Joseph T. O'Connell, Professor Emeritus, University of Toronto. Contact information for his widow, the Tagore scholar Kathleen O'Connell is below.
Dr. R. P.  Goldman
Professor of Sanskrit
Department of South and Southeast Asian Studies MC # 2540
The University of California at Berkeley
Berkeley, CA 94720-2540
Tel: 510-642-4089
Fax: 510-642-2409






Joseph T. O'Connell, noted scholar of world religions, passed away
suddenly on May 6th in Lenox Hill Hospital, Manhattan, surrounded by his
loving family.   Born in Boston, Massachusetts in 1940, he was educated at
Holy Cross College and Harvard University, where he specialized in the
religions of South Asia, completing his Ph.D. thesis on Caitanya Vaisnavism.
Joseph taught at St. Michael's College and the Centre for the Study of
Religion, University of Toronto from 1968-2000, and he and his wife
Kathleen, a Tagore scholar, made regular research visits to India and
Bangladesh. His distinguished academic career includes teaching appointments
at Oxford University, Visva-Bharati University, India and more recently at
the University of Dhaka, Bangladesh, where he has been instrumental in the
establishment of the  Dept. of World Religions and Culture for the past ten
years.

http://www.thedailystar.net/forum/2012/june/our.htm


From: Kathy O'Connell
e-Mail: koconnel at chass.utoronto.ca<mailto:koconnel at chass.utoronto.ca>
Sender Information:
http://ws.arin.net/cgi-bin/whois.pl?queryinput=70.27.152.232
Browser: Mozilla/5.0 (compatible; MSIE 9.0; Windows NT 6.0; Trident/5.0)


------ End of Forwarded Message





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From christoph.emmrich at UTORONTO.CA  Wed Jun  6 03:54:47 2012
From: christoph.emmrich at UTORONTO.CA (christoph.emmrich at UTORONTO.CA)
Date: Tue, 05 Jun 12 23:54:47 -0400
Subject: branding and children
In-Reply-To: <CBF2E874.65F0%a.bowles1@uq.edu.au>
Message-ID: <161227096447.23782.13585832711235223577.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Dear Adam,

Here are two studies by Srilata Raman on a South Indian practice that  
includes branding:

Raman, Srilata. 2005. Sam??raya?a [Samaashrayana] as Ritual and Non-Ritual in
?r?vai??avism (Shrivaishnavism). In J?rg Genganagel, Ute H?sken and  
Srilata Raman (Eds.), Words and Deeds. Hindu and Buddhist Rituals in  
South Asia. Vienna: Harrasowitz. 91-114.

Raman, Srilata. 2007. Initiation and Conversion in Medieval South  
India. Pa?casa?sk?ra [Panchasamskaara] as Historical Practice in the  
?r?vai??ava [Shrivaishnava] Hagiographical Literature. In Gerhard  
Oberhammer and Marion Rastelli (Eds.), The Relationship between  
Vi?i???dvaita [Vishishtaadvaita] and P??car?tra [Pancharaatra].  
Vienna: Austrian Academy of Sciences. 263-286.

Sincerely,
Christoph

----

Christoph Emmrich
University of Toronto



Quoting Adam Bowles <a.bowles1 at UQ.EDU.AU>:

> Dear colleagues,
>
> A third party has asked me for information on the practice of   
> branding as part of traditional medical practice in South Asia or in  
>  the Fijian Hindu community, especially in respect to children. Can   
> anyone point me in the direction of useful material?
>
> Many thanks
> Adam
>
>
> Dr Adam Bowles
> Lecturer in Asian Religions
> School of History, Philosophy, Religion and Classics
> Faculty of Arts
> The University of Queensland
> Tel: +61 7 33656324
> Email: a.bowles1 at uq.edu.au<mailto:a.bowles1 at uq.edu.au>
> Web: http://www.uq.edu.au/hprc/dr-adam-bowles
> [FaceBook-icon]<http://www.facebook.com/pages/Studies-in-Religion-at-UQ/362132947148321>
>
> Associate Editor, South Asia: Journal of South Asian Studies
> http://www.tandf.co.uk/journals/titles/00856401.asp
>
> CRICOS Provider Number: 00025B
>
> This email is intended solely for the addressee. It may contain   
> private or confidential information. If you are not the intended   
> addressee, you must take no action based on it, nor show a copy to   
> anyone.  Kindly notify the sender by reply email.  Opinions and   
> information in this email which do not relate to the official   
> business of The University of Queensland shall be understood as   
> neither given nor endorsed by the University.
>




From christoph.emmrich at UTORONTO.CA  Wed Jun  6 04:02:00 2012
From: christoph.emmrich at UTORONTO.CA (christoph.emmrich at UTORONTO.CA)
Date: Wed, 06 Jun 12 00:02:00 -0400
Subject: branding and children
In-Reply-To: <CBF2E874.65F0%a.bowles1@uq.edu.au>
Message-ID: <161227096449.23782.12935175057294829467.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Dear Adam,

Correction: I just noticed that part of the reference of Raman 2005  
should have run "Wiesbaden: Harrassowitz". Heartfelt apologies.

Sincerely,
Christoph

----

Christoph Emmrich
University of Toronto

Quoting Adam Bowles <a.bowles1 at UQ.EDU.AU>:

> Dear colleagues,
>
> A third party has asked me for information on the practice of   
> branding as part of traditional medical practice in South Asia or in  
>  the Fijian Hindu community, especially in respect to children. Can   
> anyone point me in the direction of useful material?
>
> Many thanks
> Adam
>
>
> Dr Adam Bowles
> Lecturer in Asian Religions
> School of History, Philosophy, Religion and Classics
> Faculty of Arts
> The University of Queensland
> Tel: +61 7 33656324
> Email: a.bowles1 at uq.edu.au<mailto:a.bowles1 at uq.edu.au>
> Web: http://www.uq.edu.au/hprc/dr-adam-bowles
> [FaceBook-icon]<http://www.facebook.com/pages/Studies-in-Religion-at-UQ/362132947148321>
>
> Associate Editor, South Asia: Journal of South Asian Studies
> http://www.tandf.co.uk/journals/titles/00856401.asp
>
> CRICOS Provider Number: 00025B
>
> This email is intended solely for the addressee. It may contain   
> private or confidential information. If you are not the intended   
> addressee, you must take no action based on it, nor show a copy to   
> anyone.  Kindly notify the sender by reply email.  Opinions and   
> information in this email which do not relate to the official   
> business of The University of Queensland shall be understood as   
> neither given nor endorsed by the University.
>




From s.hodge at PADMACHOLING.PLUS.COM  Wed Jun  6 02:19:09 2012
From: s.hodge at PADMACHOLING.PLUS.COM (Stephen Hodge)
Date: Wed, 06 Jun 12 03:19:09 +0100
Subject: branding and children
Message-ID: <161227096444.23782.15911089287257576071.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Allen Thrasher wrote:

". . . the little brass wire implements for these insignia in antique
stores. I think they are sometimes used for branding, sometimes for marking
the body with sandalwood."

If these implements are small, specially with more than the simplest
pattern, they could probably not have been used for branding children.  The
scar left from the burn from any portion of a brand on human skin, esp. with
the delicate skin of children, spreads to several times the size of the
intended line and become blurred and fused together with neighbouring lines.
It's not like tattooing.  If you look around on the internet, you will find
that there is a whole sub-culture in the West, esp. among gangs, that use
brands as initition symbols or fashion statements.

Best wishes,
Stephen Hodge




From michaels.axel at GOOGLEMAIL.COM  Wed Jun  6 07:02:50 2012
From: michaels.axel at GOOGLEMAIL.COM (Axel Michaels)
Date: Wed, 06 Jun 12 09:02:50 +0200
Subject: branding and children
In-Reply-To: <20120605235447.vvyq8cajqcw04k00@webmail.utoronto.ca>
Message-ID: <161227096452.23782.18277807962844109547.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

A major publication with a chapter on branding including a DVD is also:

Visnu's Children
Verfasst von pw am Sa, 10/03/2009 - 13:18. HinduismusNeuerscheinung
H?sken, Ute
Vi??u's Children : Prenatal life-cycle rituals in South India / Ute H?sken. Transl. from German by Will Sweetman, with a DVD by Ute H?sken and Manfred Kr?ger. - Wiesbaden : Harrassowitz, 2009. - 322 S. : Ill. S. - (Ethno-Indology ; 9)
ISBN 978-3-447-05853-7
EUR 52,00
-- Angek?ndigt f?r August 2009 --


Beschreibung
The Vaikhanasas, a group of Brahmanic priests in the Visnu temples of south India, can look back on a long and turbulent history, that is characterized by the effort of claiming their status against rivaling priests.Central to this monograph is a controversy, ongoing for centuries, as to what makes a person eligible to perform the rituals in Visnu temples: does birth or an initiation create the ideal intermediary between the god and humans? Since the 14th century CE the discussion in the relevant Sanskrit texs centers around the question of whether the Vaikhanasas priests must undergo an initiation including a branding on the upper arms, or whether their particular prenatal life-cycle ritual visnubali makes them eligible to perform temple ritual. As hereditary temple priests the Vaikhanasas? own stance is explicit: they are Visnu?s own children, preordained for temple service already before birth. In addition to the textual perspective, three instances of local conflicts from the 19th/20th centuries about the question of whether the Vaikhanasas require an initiation are analysed in their contexts. Furthermore, three examples of present day performances of the crucial ritual visnubali are presented and interpreted in the light of the relation between text and performance and from the perspective of the acting priests? ritual competence. The book also contains a DVD with some of the video-coverage of the three visnubali performances.

Inhalt
Preface. 7
Introduction. 13
1. The Da?avidhahetunir?pa?a. 23
2. Rituals in the Da?avidhahetunir?pa?a. 53
3. Branding for Vaikh?nasas in the 19th and 20th centuries. 143
4. Sa?sk?ra performance in the early 21st century. 161
5. Variation in life-cycle rituals and the stability of tradition. 257
Sanskrit texts. 273
Secondary literature. 279
Appendix 1: Tabular view of six Guruparampar?s. 295
Appendix 2: Text of the DVD booklet. 301
Appendix 3: Text of the "Introduction" to the DVD. 309
Abbreviations. 313
Index. 315

Autorin
UTE H?SKEN, Professor of Sanskrit, University of Oslo. 


Prof. Dr. Axel Michaels

Director Excellence Cluster "Asia and Europe in a Global Context", Sprecher des SFB 619 ("Ritualdynamik")

Universit?t Heidelberg, S?dasien-Institut, Im Neuenheimer Feld 330, D-69120 Heidelberg
Tel. +49-6221-548917 / Fax +49-6221-546338 
http://www.asia-europe.uni-heidelberg.de/ -- www.ritualdynamik.uni-hd.de -- http://www.sai.uni-heidelberg.de/abt/IND/index.html
Emails: sek-michaels at uni-heidelberg.de (SAI office) -- Axel.Michaels at urz.uni-heidelberg.de (official and personal) -- michaels at asia-europe.uni-heidelberg.de (Cluster mail)





Am 06.06.2012 um 05:54 schrieb <christoph.emmrich at UTORONTO.CA>:

> Dear Adam,
> 
> Here are two studies by Srilata Raman on a South Indian practice that  
> includes branding:
> 
> Raman, Srilata. 2005. Sam??raya?a [Samaashrayana] as Ritual and Non-Ritual in
> ?r?vai??avism (Shrivaishnavism). In J?rg Genganagel, Ute H?sken and  
> Srilata Raman (Eds.), Words and Deeds. Hindu and Buddhist Rituals in  
> South Asia. Vienna: Harrasowitz. 91-114.
> 
> Raman, Srilata. 2007. Initiation and Conversion in Medieval South  
> India. Pa?casa?sk?ra [Panchasamskaara] as Historical Practice in the  
> ?r?vai??ava [Shrivaishnava] Hagiographical Literature. In Gerhard  
> Oberhammer and Marion Rastelli (Eds.), The Relationship between  
> Vi?i???dvaita [Vishishtaadvaita] and P??car?tra [Pancharaatra].  
> Vienna: Austrian Academy of Sciences. 263-286.
> 
> Sincerely,
> Christoph
> 
> ----
> 
> Christoph Emmrich
> University of Toronto
> 
> 
> 
> Quoting Adam Bowles <a.bowles1 at UQ.EDU.AU>:
> 
>> Dear colleagues,
>> 
>> A third party has asked me for information on the practice of   
>> branding as part of traditional medical practice in South Asia or in  
>> the Fijian Hindu community, especially in respect to children. Can   
>> anyone point me in the direction of useful material?
>> 
>> Many thanks
>> Adam
>> 
>> 
>> Dr Adam Bowles
>> Lecturer in Asian Religions
>> School of History, Philosophy, Religion and Classics
>> Faculty of Arts
>> The University of Queensland
>> Tel: +61 7 33656324
>> Email: a.bowles1 at uq.edu.au<mailto:a.bowles1 at uq.edu.au>
>> Web: http://www.uq.edu.au/hprc/dr-adam-bowles
>> [FaceBook-icon]<http://www.facebook.com/pages/Studies-in-Religion-at-UQ/362132947148321>
>> 
>> Associate Editor, South Asia: Journal of South Asian Studies
>> http://www.tandf.co.uk/journals/titles/00856401.asp
>> 
>> CRICOS Provider Number: 00025B
>> 
>> This email is intended solely for the addressee. It may contain   
>> private or confidential information. If you are not the intended   
>> addressee, you must take no action based on it, nor show a copy to   
>> anyone.  Kindly notify the sender by reply email.  Opinions and   
>> information in this email which do not relate to the official   
>> business of The University of Queensland shall be understood as   
>> neither given nor endorsed by the University.
>> 



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From jataber at UNM.EDU  Wed Jun  6 21:50:23 2012
From: jataber at UNM.EDU (John Taber)
Date: Wed, 06 Jun 12 15:50:23 -0600
Subject: non-western philosophy as NOT philosophy
In-Reply-To: <CAKo7qP17JAi-u=fJYX_wDEW9eTpWj+mHGxqz-_75h_xB9mdFjA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <161227096455.23782.14959074308125590337.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

David,

The idea that philosophy is a distinctively, even exclusively,  
European phenomenon finds systematic expression in the continental  
tradition (as Victoria Lysenko notes in her fine lecture): Hegel,  
Husserl, Heidegger, in particular. (Nietzsche was a special case.)  
Wilhelm Halbfass offers insightful and nuanced discussions of their  
views in "India and Europe," Part I. I think one of the best "proof  
texts" for this position is Husserl's "Vienna Lecture" (1935),  
contained as an appendix in "The Crisis of European Sciencs and  
Transcendental Phenomenology." (Perhaps Matthew Kapstein and Jonardon  
Ganeri mention this text as well; at the moment I am not where I can  
check.) It makes for interesting reading, especially when read  
together with the "Crisis"; certainly, it is not complete nonsense.  
The strength of Halbfass' work is that he is both critical of this  
tendency and determined to understand it. The disparaging of Asian  
thought in the analytic tradition is more anecdotal, and usually takes  
the form of complaining that Asian philosophy is lacking in worthwhile  
arguments, i.e., arguments that can be employed in solving problems in  
contemporary analytic philosophy. B. K. Matilal (the pioneer) and now  
many others have tried to dispell this impression, but I think with  
mixed results.

Yours truly,
John Taber
Philosophy Department
University of New Mexico



On Jun 4, 2012, at 9:51 AM, David Fiordalis wrote:

> Dear colleagues,
>
> On Sun, Jun 3, 2012 at 10:16 PM, <mkapstei at uchicago.edu> wrote:
> Some Indology subscribers may be interested in the
> following, from the electronic edition of the New York Times:
>
> http://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/06/03/philosophys-western-bias/?ref=global-home
>
>
> As someone who will be teaching an intro course called "Philosophy  
> East and West" this coming academic year, the article Justin Smith  
> published in nytimes.com resonated with me. I'm glad that Matthew  
> Kapstein posted it to this list.
>
> This may not be the most appropriate forum to ask, but given the  
> wide reading of the members of this list, maybe some will have good  
> suggestions to the following query. I'm currently looking for are  
> clear, accessible statements -- proof-texts if you like -- from  
> Western philosophical literature of the claim that non-western  
> philosophy (Indian, Chinese, Islamic, African, etc.) is not  
> philosophy or is otherwise lesser in some respect. Most often, this  
> is an implicit assumption or one easily follows. I'm looking for a  
> few choice quotes or short readings that will make an impact  
> undergraduates with little to no prior exposure to the issue.
>
> Thanks for any suggestions you might have.
>
> Sincerely,
>
> David Fiordalis
> Linfield College



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From ute.huesken at URZ.UNI-HEIDELBERG.DE  Wed Jun  6 23:35:09 2012
From: ute.huesken at URZ.UNI-HEIDELBERG.DE (Ute Huesken)
Date: Thu, 07 Jun 12 01:35:09 +0200
Subject: branding for children
Message-ID: <161227096457.23782.2249566379889921906.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Dear Adam,
the aspects that are not dealt with in Srilata Raman's and my dealing  
with "branding" (tapasaskara, taptasamskara) as part of the five  
Vaishnava samskaras (pancasamskara) is the fact that in contemporary  
South Indian practice the initiation into Vaishnavahood is usually  
performed only for adults. However, it seems that the Pancaratra  
priests (for them it is one of a number of initiations) perform these  
five samskaras in conjunction with upanayana - and thus usually  at  
the age of ca. 8-15 years. However, I am not aware of any medical  
explanation for this practice.
Best
Ute




From veerankp at GMAIL.COM  Thu Jun  7 12:06:33 2012
From: veerankp at GMAIL.COM (Veeranarayana Pandurangi)
Date: Thu, 07 Jun 12 17:36:33 +0530
Subject: Fwd:              {=?UTF-8?Q?=E0=A4=AD=E0=A4=BE=E0=A4=B0=E0=A4=A4=E0=A5=80=E0=A4=AF=E0=A4=B5=E0=A4=BF=E0=A4=A6=E0=A5=8D=E0=A4=B5=E0=A4=A4=E0=A5=8D=E0=A4=AA=E0=A4=B0_=E0=A4=BF=E0=A4=B7=E0=A4=A4=E0=A5=8D}?= request for a rare book on              Shakuntal
In-Reply-To: <COL114-W6519C9D6F5856170158464BB090@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <161227096462.23782.9418959131123747643.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

dear all
here is a request from a friend. please reply to
bhattvasant at hotmail.com

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: vasantkumar bhatt <bhattvasant at hotmail.com>
Date: Sat, Jun 2, 2012 at 2:00 PM
Subject: {???????????????????} request for a rare book on Shakuntal
To: "vasantkumar M. Bhatt" <bvparishat at googlegroups.com>, "
bvp.manageteam at googlegroups.com bvp" <bvp.manageteam at googlegroups.com>


 Respected Scholars of Sanskrit,
 Namaskaara.
I am in need of a book, entitled : -
*Die Kasmirer Cakuntala - Hand - sc rift von, by Dr. Karl Burkhard,*
*der Kaiserlichen Akademie, der Wissenschaften cv2 Band. 1884 Wien.*
I request all of you to help me. I will be pleased to send the necessary
amount for the photo-copy.
Thanks,
 Vasantkumar Bhatt
( Prof. & Head, Dept. of Sanskrit )
Director, School of Languages,
 Gujarat University, Ahmedabad - 380 009
(M) 094277 00064, 079- 2640 6508

-- 
??????????????? ?????? ???????? ??????????? (?.??.)
to subscribe go to the link below and put a request
https://groups.google.com/group/bvparishat/subscribe
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
bvparishat+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com



-- 
Veeranarayana N.K. Pandurangi
Head, Dept of Darshanas,
Yoganandacharya Bhavan,
Jagadguru Ramanandacharya Rajasthan Samskrita University, Madau, post
Bhankrota, Jaipur, 302026.

?? ??????????? ??????? ???????? ? ?????????
??? ???????? ??????? ? ?????? ???????????????
?????????????? ??????? ??????? ???????????
??????????????? ?????? ???????? ??????????? (?.??.)


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From GHooper at CCH.COM.AU  Thu Jun  7 08:31:41 2012
From: GHooper at CCH.COM.AU (Giles Hooper)
Date: Thu, 07 Jun 12 18:31:41 +1000
Subject: Prakrit courses in Jaipur
Message-ID: <161227096460.23782.7166606017024211990.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>


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From mkmfolk at GMAIL.COM  Thu Jun  7 13:25:28 2012
From: mkmfolk at GMAIL.COM (Mahendra Kumar Mishra)
Date: Thu, 07 Jun 12 18:55:28 +0530
Subject: Fwd:              {=?UTF-8?Q?=E0=A4=AD=E0=A4=BE=E0=A4=B0=E0=A4=A4=E0=A5=80=E0=A4=AF=E0=A4=B5=E0=A4=BF=E0=A4=A6=E0=A5=8D_=E0=A4=B5=E0=A4=A4=E0=A5=8D=E0=A4=AA=E0=A4=B0_=E0=A4=BF=E0=A4=B7=E0=A4=A4=E0=A5=8D}?= request for a rare book on Sha              kuntal
In-Reply-To: <CAPnSTej_caKqHJtDEbHYC+kfgD=-dJBrKPYSjDJRhovBW=AEtA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <161227096465.23782.8208414149797940780.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

pls find the website


http://www.folklorefoundation.org.in/


On Thu, Jun 7, 2012 at 5:36 PM, Veeranarayana Pandurangi <veerankp at gmail.com
> wrote:

> dear all
> here is a request from a friend. please reply to
> bhattvasant at hotmail.com
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: vasantkumar bhatt <bhattvasant at hotmail.com>
> Date: Sat, Jun 2, 2012 at 2:00 PM
> Subject: {???????????????????} request for a rare book on Shakuntal
> To: "vasantkumar M. Bhatt" <bvparishat at googlegroups.com>, "
> bvp.manageteam at googlegroups.com bvp" <bvp.manageteam at googlegroups.com>
>
>
>  Respected Scholars of Sanskrit,
>  Namaskaara.
> I am in need of a book, entitled : -
> *Die Kasmirer Cakuntala - Hand - sc rift von, by Dr. Karl Burkhard,*
> *der Kaiserlichen Akademie, der Wissenschaften cv2 Band. 1884 Wien.*
> I request all of you to help me. I will be pleased to send the necessary
> amount for the photo-copy.
> Thanks,
>  Vasantkumar Bhatt
> ( Prof. & Head, Dept. of Sanskrit )
> Director, School of Languages,
>  Gujarat University, Ahmedabad - 380 009
> (M) 094277 00064, 079- 2640 6508
>
> --
> ??????????????? ?????? ???????? ??????????? (?.??.)
> to subscribe go to the link below and put a request
> https://groups.google.com/group/bvparishat/subscribe
> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> bvparishat+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com
>
>
>
> --
> Veeranarayana N.K. Pandurangi
> Head, Dept of Darshanas,
> Yoganandacharya Bhavan,
> Jagadguru Ramanandacharya Rajasthan Samskrita University, Madau, post
> Bhankrota, Jaipur, 302026.
>
> ?? ??????????? ??????? ???????? ? ?????????
> ??? ???????? ??????? ? ?????? ???????????????
> ?????????????? ??????? ??????? ???????????
> ??????????????? ?????? ???????? ??????????? (?.??.)
>
>


-- 
Dr Mahendra  K Mishra
Ex State  Coordinator for MLE  and  Tribal Education Govt. of Odisha, India
 Director , folklore Foundation, Odisha,India
A-7,Lord Gunjan Palace(First Floor)
RASULGARH
Bhubaneswar  751010,Odisha
Tel:  91674-2582067
MOBILE:094376-36436 (m)


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From mmdesh at UMICH.EDU  Fri Jun  8 02:01:53 2012
From: mmdesh at UMICH.EDU (Deshpande, Madhav)
Date: Fri, 08 Jun 12 02:01:53 +0000
Subject: non-western philosophy as NOT philosophy
In-Reply-To: <1D5D55F6-0F2A-429C-A1E2-D3E5516E8254@unm.edu>
Message-ID: <161227096468.23782.471953766101448935.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Having taught the Introductory class for Indian Philosophy for a number of years at the University of Michigan, I find that most of the students in the class are second generation South Asian students, and they know neither Indian nor Western philosophy, and hence my class becomes a basic introduction to philosophical thinking.  I have to try to distinguish the Indian Philosophy class from my Introduction to Hinduism, and try to explain the distinction between religion and philosophy, which is also a difficult distinction for the students.  Would appreciate suggestions for introductory readings that would make this distinction between philosophy and religion.

Madhav

Madhav M. Deshpande
Professor of Sanskrit and Linguistics
Department of Asian Languages and Cultures
202 South Thayer Street, Suite 6111
The University of Michigan
Ann Arbor, Michigan 48104-1608, USA
________________________________________
From: Indology [INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk] on behalf of John Taber [jataber at UNM.EDU]
Sent: Wednesday, June 06, 2012 5:50 PM
To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk
Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] non-western philosophy as NOT philosophy

David,

The idea that philosophy is a distinctively, even exclusively, European phenomenon finds systematic expression in the continental tradition (as Victoria Lysenko notes in her fine lecture): Hegel, Husserl, Heidegger, in particular. (Nietzsche was a special case.) Wilhelm Halbfass offers insightful and nuanced discussions of their views in "India and Europe," Part I. I think one of the best "proof texts" for this position is Husserl's "Vienna Lecture" (1935), contained as an appendix in "The Crisis of European Sciencs and Transcendental Phenomenology." (Perhaps Matthew Kapstein and Jonardon Ganeri mention this text as well; at the moment I am not where I can check.) It makes for interesting reading, especially when read together with the "Crisis"; certainly, it is not complete nonsense. The strength of Halbfass' work is that he is both critical of this tendency and determined to understand it. The disparaging of Asian thought in the analytic tradition is more anecdotal, and usually takes the form of complaining that Asian philosophy is lacking in worthwhile arguments, i.e., arguments that can be employed in solving problems in contemporary analytic philosophy. B. K. Matilal (the pioneer) and now many others have tried to dispell this impression, but I think with mixed results.

Yours truly,
John Taber
Philosophy Department
University of New Mexico



On Jun 4, 2012, at 9:51 AM, David Fiordalis wrote:

Dear colleagues,

On Sun, Jun 3, 2012 at 10:16 PM, <mkapstei at uchicago.edu<mailto:mkapstei at uchicago.edu>> wrote:
Some Indology subscribers may be interested in the
following, from the electronic edition of the New York Times:

http://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/06/03/philosophys-western-bias/?ref=global-home


As someone who will be teaching an intro course called "Philosophy East and West" this coming academic year, the article Justin Smith published in nytimes.com<http://nytimes.com> resonated with me. I'm glad that Matthew Kapstein posted it to this list.

This may not be the most appropriate forum to ask, but given the wide reading of the members of this list, maybe some will have good suggestions to the following query. I'm currently looking for are clear, accessible statements -- proof-texts if you like -- from Western philosophical literature of the claim that non-western philosophy (Indian, Chinese, Islamic, African, etc.) is not philosophy or is otherwise lesser in some respect. Most often, this is an implicit assumption or one easily follows. I'm looking for a few choice quotes or short readings that will make an impact undergraduates with little to no prior exposure to the issue.

Thanks for any suggestions you might have.

Sincerely,

David Fiordalis
Linfield College




From kauzeya at GMAIL.COM  Fri Jun  8 09:13:10 2012
From: kauzeya at GMAIL.COM (Jonathan Silk)
Date: Fri, 08 Jun 12 11:13:10 +0200
Subject: working email address for Prof dr Balachandra Rao
Message-ID: <161227096473.23782.13752683460541932666.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Might someone be able to send me privately a working email address for Prof
Balachandra Rao in Bangalore?  Many thanks in advance, jonathan

-- 
J. Silk
Instituut Kern / Universiteit Leiden
Leiden University Institute for Area Studies, LIAS
Johan Huizinga Building, Room 1.37
Doelensteeg 16
2311 VL Leiden
The Netherlands


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From dbhattacharya200498 at YAHOO.COM  Fri Jun  8 03:55:21 2012
From: dbhattacharya200498 at YAHOO.COM (Dipak Bhattacharya)
Date: Fri, 08 Jun 12 11:55:21 +0800
Subject: non-western philosophy as NOT philosophy
In-Reply-To: <1A6D14A87B9BB84D9BFBF8AE65CA1DE425B23E6A@its-embx-02.adsroot.itcs.umich.edu>
Message-ID: <161227096470.23782.959383295753053643.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

8 6 2012
Dear Colleagues,
My experience with teaching had
some points of similarity with that of Madhav. I solved it in my own way and
never by abstract synchronic comparison of ?Western? and ?Indian? philosophy. I
request colleagues to regard the following lines not as forming a lecture but
as part of a dialogue that shares experience. ?
It was a strong point of nineteenth
century Western Indologists that both art and philosophy in India were subservient
to religion and, hence, not true philosophy. Being themselves highly religious
minded most of the Indian scholars who wrote on Indian philosophy, perhaps, thought
it impious to deny the integral relation between philosophy and religion in
India. The consternations caused by the use of derogative terms like ?hand maid
of religion? caused the production of some counter supercilious claims like those
of Coomaraswami but these were hardly comprehensive and consistent enough as guide. 
There are examples of secular
approach to philosophy like that in the N?sad?ya hymn (RV 10.129) or the one
found in Jayar??ibha??a?s Tattvopaplavasi?ha or in the views of the C?rv?ka
school cited by others but they did not contribute to the mainstream. Only Ny?ya-Vai?e?ika contributed to the mainstream but its
eventual surrender to religious philosophy is a fact belonging to till now
unwritten history.
It is the existence of those secular
philosophical trends and, perhaps, also the compulsions of the situation that
made me teach my students that the common point between secular philosophy (atheism
according to Islamic terminology) and religious philosophy is that ultimately
none is pure search for truth. We cannot ignore the fact that Cogito, ergo
sum was the inspiration behind the many ground breaking thoughts that appeared
post-renaissance. ?The Cartesian
influence is very evident in post-modern writings too. Religious philosophy is salvation
oriented while the secular one leads to worldly pursuit. Both are guides to
action.
The impression that philosophy is
secular in the West and religious in the East is produced by deliberate
ignorance of the medieval thought in the West. Did Thomas Aquinas belong to the
East? It is a short period of urban dominance that produced Aristotle but its decline
gave rise to Plotinus. Again, it is the same urban ascendancy that produced
modern secular philosophy in the West. If one minutely looks at the
developments in India one will find that a lot of similar secular thoughts rose
during urban dominance in India.
Will this experience count with
Madhav? 
Best
DB


________________________________
 From: "Deshpande, Madhav" <mmdesh at UMICH.EDU>
To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk 
Sent: Friday, 8 June 2012 7:31 AM
Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] non-western philosophy as NOT philosophy
 
Having taught the Introductory class for Indian Philosophy for a number of years at the University of Michigan, I find that most of the students in the class are second generation South Asian students, and they know neither Indian nor Western philosophy, and hence my class becomes a basic introduction to philosophical thinking.? I have to try to distinguish the Indian Philosophy class from my Introduction to Hinduism, and try to explain the distinction between religion and philosophy, which is also a difficult distinction for the students.? Would appreciate suggestions for introductory readings that would make this distinction between philosophy and religion.

Madhav

Madhav M. Deshpande
Professor of Sanskrit and Linguistics
Department of Asian Languages and Cultures
202 South Thayer Street, Suite 6111
The University of Michigan
Ann Arbor, Michigan 48104-1608, USA
________________________________________
From: Indology [INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk] on behalf of John Taber [jataber at UNM.EDU]
Sent: Wednesday, June 06, 2012 5:50 PM
To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk
Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] non-western philosophy as NOT philosophy

David,

The idea that philosophy is a distinctively, even exclusively, European phenomenon finds systematic expression in the continental tradition (as Victoria Lysenko notes in her fine lecture): Hegel, Husserl, Heidegger, in particular. (Nietzsche was a special case.) Wilhelm Halbfass offers insightful and nuanced discussions of their views in "India and Europe," Part I. I think one of the best "proof texts" for this position is Husserl's "Vienna Lecture" (1935), contained as an appendix in "The Crisis of European Sciencs and Transcendental Phenomenology." (Perhaps Matthew Kapstein and Jonardon Ganeri mention this text as well; at the moment I am not where I can check.) It makes for interesting reading, especially when read together with the "Crisis"; certainly, it is not complete nonsense. The strength of Halbfass' work is that he is both critical of this tendency and determined to understand it. The disparaging of Asian thought in the analytic tradition is
 more anecdotal, and usually takes the form of complaining that Asian philosophy is lacking in worthwhile arguments, i.e., arguments that can be employed in solving problems in contemporary analytic philosophy. B. K. Matilal (the pioneer) and now many others have tried to dispell this impression, but I think with mixed results.

Yours truly,
John Taber
Philosophy Department
University of New Mexico



On Jun 4, 2012, at 9:51 AM, David Fiordalis wrote:

Dear colleagues,

On Sun, Jun 3, 2012 at 10:16 PM, <mkapstei at uchicago.edu<mailto:mkapstei at uchicago.edu>> wrote:
Some Indology subscribers may be interested in the
following, from the electronic edition of the New York Times:

http://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/06/03/philosophys-western-bias/?ref=global-home


As someone who will be teaching an intro course called "Philosophy East and West" this coming academic year, the article Justin Smith published in nytimes.com<http://nytimes.com> resonated with me. I'm glad that Matthew Kapstein posted it to this list.

This may not be the most appropriate forum to ask, but given the wide reading of the members of this list, maybe some will have good suggestions to the following query. I'm currently looking for are clear, accessible statements -- proof-texts if you like -- from Western philosophical literature of the claim that non-western philosophy (Indian, Chinese, Islamic, African, etc.) is not philosophy or is otherwise lesser in some respect. Most often, this is an implicit assumption or one easily follows. I'm looking for a few choice quotes or short readings that will make an impact undergraduates with little to no prior exposure to the issue.

Thanks for any suggestions you might have.

Sincerely,

David Fiordalis
Linfield College


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From garzilli at ASIATICA.ORG  Fri Jun  8 10:50:52 2012
From: garzilli at ASIATICA.ORG (Enrica Garzilli)
Date: Fri, 08 Jun 12 12:50:52 +0200
Subject: New book on Nepal
Message-ID: <161227096476.23782.5268835055931477490.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Since many Indologists are from Nepal:

Dear Colleagues,

We are pleased to announce the publication of _Gender, Social Change and
the Media_, eds. by Johannes D. Schmidt and Torsten R. Berg, Delhi:
Rawat Publications, 2012. Pp. 240. Rs.695 / US$45 (Hardcover). ISBN:
978-81-316-0513-4

This book is an informative, engaging and critical attempt to contribute
to a profound discussion about gender and social change in landlocked
Nepal in South Asia. It covers new ground relating to the challenges
women face in terms of the enormous changes taking place in society and
is an important addition to the existing scanty literature on social,
cultural and historical change in contemporary Nepal.

List of Contributors: Lok Raj Baral, Torsten R?del Berg, Chandra Bhadra,
Enrica Garzilli, Hanne Lund Jensen, Sunil Pokharel, Sangita Rayamajhi,
Shiva Rijal, Johannes D. Schmidt, Nisha Sharma, Abhi Subedi, G?rard Toffin.

More on http://bit.ly/KT86Ej


Dr Enrica Garzilli




From bloturco at CENTOPER.IT  Fri Jun  8 14:50:29 2012
From: bloturco at CENTOPER.IT (Bruno Lo Turco)
Date: Fri, 08 Jun 12 16:50:29 +0200
Subject: looking for article
Message-ID: <161227096478.23782.15228742696429712943.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

No Italian library seems to hold the issue of the Adyar Bulletin mentioned
below. So I wonder if anybody could be so kind as to supply me with a copy
of this article I am interested in:

K V Sarma, "Propagation of written literature in Indian tradition", Adyar
Library Bulletin 55 (1991), pp 15-31.

Thank you,

Bruno Lo Turco
Sapienza Universit? di Roma

bruno.loturco at uniroma1.it




From kauzeya at GMAIL.COM  Sat Jun  9 06:40:41 2012
From: kauzeya at GMAIL.COM (Jonathan Silk)
Date: Sat, 09 Jun 12 08:40:41 +0200
Subject: Many thanks for the address of Prof B Rao
Message-ID: <161227096481.23782.14047768589756499577.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

My thanks -- I have now received the address of Prof Rao. It is very nice
to be part of such a generous and knowledgeable community of scholars!

jonathan

-- 
J. Silk
Instituut Kern / Universiteit Leiden
Leiden University Institute for Area Studies, LIAS
Johan Huizinga Building, Room 1.37
Doelensteeg 16
2311 VL Leiden
The Netherlands


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From vjroebuck at BTINTERNET.COM  Sun Jun 10 09:33:07 2012
From: vjroebuck at BTINTERNET.COM (Valerie J Roebuck)
Date: Sun, 10 Jun 12 10:33:07 +0100
Subject: murals in lankan monastries
In-Reply-To: <0302A168A76A4868A57024D4433E0431@winath>
Message-ID: <161227096487.23782.691185370989456414.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Thank you for this excellent resource.

Valerie J Roebuck
Manchester, UK


On 10 Jun 2012, at 09:58, Rolf Heinrich Koch wrote:

> Any interest in the paintings in
> the temple-paintings of Sri Lanka?
> I tried to involve my pictures in a wordpress.blog,
> without any diary context.
> The first blog
> http://ummaggajataka.wordpress.com/
> presents the first part of the Ummagga-jataka which
> covers the walls of a temple near Galle in Sri Lanka.
>  
> The next blog:
> http://ranwella.wordpress.com/
> Pages 1-10 showing three wonderful and
> important temples (Ambalangoda, Kataluva, Ranwella) and
> providing an interior view of certain monastries.
> Pages 11-29 presenting certain buddhist themes painted in different
> styles during the last three centuries (11-29),
>  
> Since paintings do not need to be translatet
> all can enjoy
>  
> Heiner
>  
>  
> Dr. Rolf Heinrich Koch
> Germany: Munich 0049 (0)89 2607820
> Srilanka: Galle 0094 (0)77 8069712
> rolfheiner.koch at gmail.com
>  
> few words I therefore
>  
> enjoy



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From jataber at UNM.EDU  Sun Jun 10 16:34:08 2012
From: jataber at UNM.EDU (John Taber)
Date: Sun, 10 Jun 12 10:34:08 -0600
Subject: non-western philosophy as NOT philosophy
In-Reply-To: <1A6D14A87B9BB84D9BFBF8AE65CA1DE425B23E6A@its-embx-02.adsroot.itcs.umich.edu>
Message-ID: <161227096491.23782.17528590550515859536.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Dear Madhav,

My impression is that Anglo-American philosophers of the last century  
were more concerned with distinguishing philosophy from science than  
from religion. It seemed obvious to them that it is not religion,  
since it does not accept revelation as evidence. But they worried  
about what role remained for philosophy after so many of the  
disciplines that were traditionally part of it (physics, astronomy,  
psychology) had been taken over by the exact sciences. Noteworthy  
statements are: the last chapter in B. Russell's "The Problems of  
Philosophy," titled "The Value of Philosophy"; Isaiah Berlin's essay  
"The Purpose of Philosophy" (contained in "Concepts and Categories").  
Also G. E. Moore's "What is Philosophy?" in "Some Main Problems of  
Philosophy." Others will have other suggestions. These accessible and  
lucidly written attempts to define philosophy (there is of course no  
universally accepted definition) would be very helpful for students  
wondering how it is different from religion.

John Taber

On Jun 7, 2012, at 8:01 PM, Deshpande, Madhav wrote:

> Having taught the Introductory class for Indian Philosophy for a  
> number of years at the University of Michigan, I find that most of  
> the students in the class are second generation South Asian  
> students, and they know neither Indian nor Western philosophy, and  
> hence my class becomes a basic introduction to philosophical  
> thinking.  I have to try to distinguish the Indian Philosophy class  
> from my Introduction to Hinduism, and try to explain the distinction  
> between religion and philosophy, which is also a difficult  
> distinction for the students.  Would appreciate suggestions for  
> introductory readings that would make this distinction between  
> philosophy and religion.
>
> Madhav
>
> Madhav M. Deshpande
> Professor of Sanskrit and Linguistics
> Department of Asian Languages and Cultures
> 202 South Thayer Street, Suite 6111
> The University of Michigan
> Ann Arbor, Michigan 48104-1608, USA
> ________________________________________
> From: Indology [INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk] on behalf of John Taber [jataber at UNM.EDU 
> ]
> Sent: Wednesday, June 06, 2012 5:50 PM
> To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk
> Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] non-western philosophy as NOT philosophy
>
> David,
>
> The idea that philosophy is a distinctively, even exclusively,  
> European phenomenon finds systematic expression in the continental  
> tradition (as Victoria Lysenko notes in her fine lecture): Hegel,  
> Husserl, Heidegger, in particular. (Nietzsche was a special case.)  
> Wilhelm Halbfass offers insightful and nuanced discussions of their  
> views in "India and Europe," Part I. I think one of the best "proof  
> texts" for this position is Husserl's "Vienna Lecture" (1935),  
> contained as an appendix in "The Crisis of European Sciencs and  
> Transcendental Phenomenology." (Perhaps Matthew Kapstein and  
> Jonardon Ganeri mention this text as well; at the moment I am not  
> where I can check.) It makes for interesting reading, especially  
> when read together with the "Crisis"; certainly, it is not complete  
> nonsense. The strength of Halbfass' work is that he is both critical  
> of this tendency and determined to understand it. The disparaging of  
> Asian thought in the analytic tradition is more anecdotal, and  
> usually takes the form of complaining that Asian philosophy is  
> lacking in worthwhile arguments, i.e., arguments that can be  
> employed in solving problems in contemporary analytic philosophy. B.  
> K. Matilal (the pioneer) and now many others have tried to dispell  
> this impression, but I think with mixed results.
>
> Yours truly,
> John Taber
> Philosophy Department
> University of New Mexico
>
>
>
> On Jun 4, 2012, at 9:51 AM, David Fiordalis wrote:
>
> Dear colleagues,
>
> On Sun, Jun 3, 2012 at 10:16 PM, <mkapstei at uchicago.edu<mailto:mkapstei at uchicago.edu 
> >> wrote:
> Some Indology subscribers may be interested in the
> following, from the electronic edition of the New York Times:
>
> http://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/06/03/philosophys-western-bias/?ref=global-home
>
>
> As someone who will be teaching an intro course called "Philosophy  
> East and West" this coming academic year, the article Justin Smith  
> published in nytimes.com<http://nytimes.com> resonated with me. I'm  
> glad that Matthew Kapstein posted it to this list.
>
> This may not be the most appropriate forum to ask, but given the  
> wide reading of the members of this list, maybe some will have good  
> suggestions to the following query. I'm currently looking for are  
> clear, accessible statements -- proof-texts if you like -- from  
> Western philosophical literature of the claim that non-western  
> philosophy (Indian, Chinese, Islamic, African, etc.) is not  
> philosophy or is otherwise lesser in some respect. Most often, this  
> is an implicit assumption or one easily follows. I'm looking for a  
> few choice quotes or short readings that will make an impact  
> undergraduates with little to no prior exposure to the issue.
>
> Thanks for any suggestions you might have.
>
> Sincerely,
>
> David Fiordalis
> Linfield College




From rolfheiner.koch at GOOGLEMAIL.COM  Sun Jun 10 08:58:36 2012
From: rolfheiner.koch at GOOGLEMAIL.COM (Rolf Heinrich Koch)
Date: Sun, 10 Jun 12 10:58:36 +0200
Subject: murals in lankan monastries
Message-ID: <161227096484.23782.5779087604872253649.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Any interest in the paintings in
the temple-paintings of Sri Lanka?
I tried to involve my pictures in a wordpress.blog,
without any diary context.
The first blog 
http://ummaggajataka.wordpress.com/
presents the first part of the Ummagga-jataka which
covers the walls of a temple near Galle in Sri Lanka.

The next blog:
http://ranwella.wordpress.com/
Pages 1-10 showing three wonderful and
important temples (Ambalangoda, Kataluva, Ranwella) and
providing an interior view of certain monastries.
Pages 11-29 presenting certain buddhist themes painted in different
styles during the last three centuries (11-29),

Since paintings do not need to be translatet
all can enjoy

Heiner


Dr. Rolf Heinrich Koch
Germany: Munich 0049 (0)89 2607820
Srilanka: Galle 0094 (0)77 8069712
rolfheiner.koch at gmail.com
 
few words I therefore 

enjoy


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From dv.fiordalis at GMAIL.COM  Mon Jun 11 04:58:27 2012
From: dv.fiordalis at GMAIL.COM (David Fiordalis)
Date: Sun, 10 Jun 12 21:58:27 -0700
Subject: non-western philosophy as NOT philosophy
In-Reply-To: <59EEEB99-6E7C-40BA-9353-AD8160AAE0A7@unm.edu>
Message-ID: <161227096497.23782.12975858265620943456.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Dear all,

Thank you for all your contributions to this thread, which have been
helpful to me in several ways, partly by responding to different dimensions
of the issue: history of ideas vs. doing contemporary analytic philosophy,
rhetorical as well as institutional dimensions of the issue, generational
shifts in the academy, etc.

>
>
> On Jun 7, 2012, at 8:01 PM, Deshpande, Madhav wrote:
>
>  Having taught the Introductory class for Indian Philosophy for a number
>> of years at the University of Michigan, I find that most of the students in
>> the class are second generation South Asian students, and they know neither
>> Indian nor Western philosophy, and hence my class becomes a basic
>> introduction to philosophical thinking.  I have to try to distinguish the
>> Indian Philosophy class from my Introduction to Hinduism, and try to
>> explain the distinction between religion and philosophy, which is also a
>> difficult distinction for the students.  Would appreciate suggestions for
>> introductory readings that would make this distinction between philosophy
>> and religion.
>>
>> Madhav
>>
>> Madhav M. Deshpande
>> Professor of Sanskrit and Linguistics
>> Department of Asian Languages and Cultures
>> 202 South Thayer Street, Suite 6111
>> The University of Michigan
>> Ann Arbor, Michigan 48104-1608, USA
>> ____________________________________
>>
>
My student demography is different from Madhav's in that there are not many
South Asian heritage students where I teach. In any case, for most
students, I imagine that Plato and Aristotle, even Descartes, are just as
exotic and unfamiliar as Confucius, Shankara or the Buddha. There are also
institutional differences between Linfield and Michigan, as we have both a
Philosophy and a Religious Studies department here, and I would ideally
like to keep it that way, so drawing a distinction between them seems
useful at some level. Even though religion and its academic study are
different, students do not come in perceiving that difference. I would like
to highlight the distinction b/w religion and philosophy, not to reify
these concepts, but if only because: (1) I am in a Religious Studies
department with certain responsibilities for its integrity, trying to build
up to a sequence of middle and upper level classes drawing on Asian
traditions at a school with little history of such courses; (2) To that
end, we recently gave "Philosophy East and West" -- a popular course here
at Linfield for more than a decade -- a cross-listing with Religious
Studies, and I am considering how I want to distinguish between these two
"institutional bedfellows" in terms of methodology and focus, because I
think that the two disciplines often do ask different types of questions,
pursue answers in different ways, and focus on different things; (3) The
inherited East/West problematic raises the distinction between philosophy
and religion, and I feel that students ought to think critically about it
to some degree, at least to the extent that they reflect on what they mean
when/if they use terms like belief, science, religion, religious,
spiritual, philosophy, way of life, common sense, etc. On the other hand,
my sense is that most undergraduate students here (or anywhere, for that
matter,) have little patience for many of the historical subtleties and
seemingly academic nature of many of the issues involved in distinguishing
philosophy from theology, east from west, and so forth, and so I need to be
careful not to lose sight of the forest for the trees. I do not wish to try
students' patience to such an extent that they lose interest and thus fail
to engage as much as they can with real philosophical questions of personal
interest to them using the global palette that such a course can provide.
I'm curious to what extent others struggle with such pedagogical concerns.

Thanks for overlooking the several typos and missing words in my initial,
rather hurried posting. Glad people still managed to get the gist of my
query.

Dave Fiordalis
Linfield College


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From mmdesh at UMICH.EDU  Mon Jun 11 00:14:35 2012
From: mmdesh at UMICH.EDU (Deshpande, Madhav)
Date: Mon, 11 Jun 12 00:14:35 +0000
Subject: non-western philosophy as NOT philosophy
In-Reply-To: <59EEEB99-6E7C-40BA-9353-AD8160AAE0A7@unm.edu>
Message-ID: <161227096493.23782.18040124804714345722.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Thanks, John, and everyone else who responded to my message.  Very helpful suggestions.

Madhav

Madhav M. Deshpande
Professor of Sanskrit and Linguistics
Department of Asian Languages and Cultures
202 South Thayer Street, Suite 6111
The University of Michigan
Ann Arbor, Michigan 48104-1608, USA
________________________________________
From: John Taber [jataber at unm.edu]
Sent: Sunday, June 10, 2012 12:34 PM
To: Deshpande, Madhav
Cc: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk
Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] non-western philosophy as NOT philosophy

Dear Madhav,

My impression is that Anglo-American philosophers of the last century
were more concerned with distinguishing philosophy from science than
from religion. It seemed obvious to them that it is not religion,
since it does not accept revelation as evidence. But they worried
about what role remained for philosophy after so many of the
disciplines that were traditionally part of it (physics, astronomy,
psychology) had been taken over by the exact sciences. Noteworthy
statements are: the last chapter in B. Russell's "The Problems of
Philosophy," titled "The Value of Philosophy"; Isaiah Berlin's essay
"The Purpose of Philosophy" (contained in "Concepts and Categories").
Also G. E. Moore's "What is Philosophy?" in "Some Main Problems of
Philosophy." Others will have other suggestions. These accessible and
lucidly written attempts to define philosophy (there is of course no
universally accepted definition) would be very helpful for students
wondering how it is different from religion.

John Taber

On Jun 7, 2012, at 8:01 PM, Deshpande, Madhav wrote:

> Having taught the Introductory class for Indian Philosophy for a
> number of years at the University of Michigan, I find that most of
> the students in the class are second generation South Asian
> students, and they know neither Indian nor Western philosophy, and
> hence my class becomes a basic introduction to philosophical
> thinking.  I have to try to distinguish the Indian Philosophy class
> from my Introduction to Hinduism, and try to explain the distinction
> between religion and philosophy, which is also a difficult
> distinction for the students.  Would appreciate suggestions for
> introductory readings that would make this distinction between
> philosophy and religion.
>
> Madhav
>
> Madhav M. Deshpande
> Professor of Sanskrit and Linguistics
> Department of Asian Languages and Cultures
> 202 South Thayer Street, Suite 6111
> The University of Michigan
> Ann Arbor, Michigan 48104-1608, USA
> ________________________________________
> From: Indology [INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk] on behalf of John Taber [jataber at UNM.EDU
> ]
> Sent: Wednesday, June 06, 2012 5:50 PM
> To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk
> Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] non-western philosophy as NOT philosophy
>
> David,
>
> The idea that philosophy is a distinctively, even exclusively,
> European phenomenon finds systematic expression in the continental
> tradition (as Victoria Lysenko notes in her fine lecture): Hegel,
> Husserl, Heidegger, in particular. (Nietzsche was a special case.)
> Wilhelm Halbfass offers insightful and nuanced discussions of their
> views in "India and Europe," Part I. I think one of the best "proof
> texts" for this position is Husserl's "Vienna Lecture" (1935),
> contained as an appendix in "The Crisis of European Sciencs and
> Transcendental Phenomenology." (Perhaps Matthew Kapstein and
> Jonardon Ganeri mention this text as well; at the moment I am not
> where I can check.) It makes for interesting reading, especially
> when read together with the "Crisis"; certainly, it is not complete
> nonsense. The strength of Halbfass' work is that he is both critical
> of this tendency and determined to understand it. The disparaging of
> Asian thought in the analytic tradition is more anecdotal, and
> usually takes the form of complaining that Asian philosophy is
> lacking in worthwhile arguments, i.e., arguments that can be
> employed in solving problems in contemporary analytic philosophy. B.
> K. Matilal (the pioneer) and now many others have tried to dispell
> this impression, but I think with mixed results.
>
> Yours truly,
> John Taber
> Philosophy Department
> University of New Mexico
>
>
>
> On Jun 4, 2012, at 9:51 AM, David Fiordalis wrote:
>
> Dear colleagues,
>
> On Sun, Jun 3, 2012 at 10:16 PM, <mkapstei at uchicago.edu<mailto:mkapstei at uchicago.edu
> >> wrote:
> Some Indology subscribers may be interested in the
> following, from the electronic edition of the New York Times:
>
> http://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/06/03/philosophys-western-bias/?ref=global-home
>
>
> As someone who will be teaching an intro course called "Philosophy
> East and West" this coming academic year, the article Justin Smith
> published in nytimes.com<http://nytimes.com> resonated with me. I'm
> glad that Matthew Kapstein posted it to this list.
>
> This may not be the most appropriate forum to ask, but given the
> wide reading of the members of this list, maybe some will have good
> suggestions to the following query. I'm currently looking for are
> clear, accessible statements -- proof-texts if you like -- from
> Western philosophical literature of the claim that non-western
> philosophy (Indian, Chinese, Islamic, African, etc.) is not
> philosophy or is otherwise lesser in some respect. Most often, this
> is an implicit assumption or one easily follows. I'm looking for a
> few choice quotes or short readings that will make an impact
> undergraduates with little to no prior exposure to the issue.
>
> Thanks for any suggestions you might have.
>
> Sincerely,
>
> David Fiordalis
> Linfield College




From wujastyk at GMAIL.COM  Mon Jun 11 08:41:39 2012
From: wujastyk at GMAIL.COM (Dominik Wujastyk)
Date: Mon, 11 Jun 12 10:41:39 +0200
Subject: murals in lankan monastries
In-Reply-To: <4D89C8AB-A0A7-4D55-B9B8-C8E4554E186A@btinternet.com>
Message-ID: <161227096500.23782.8181562316332194098.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Thank you!  And I very much like the movies too, that give an excellent
sense of place, scale, and the spatial relationship between the artworks.

Best,
Dominik Wujastyk


On 10 June 2012 11:33, Valerie J Roebuck <vjroebuck at btinternet.com> wrote:

> Thank you for this excellent resource.
>
> Valerie J Roebuck
> Manchester, UK
>
>
> On 10 Jun 2012, at 09:58, Rolf Heinrich Koch wrote:
>
> Any interest in the paintings in
> the temple-paintings of Sri Lanka?
> I tried to involve my pictures in a wordpress.blog,
> without any diary context.
> The first blog
> http://ummaggajataka.wordpress.com/
> presents the first part of the Ummagga-jataka which
> covers the walls of a temple near Galle in Sri Lanka.
>
> The next blog:
> http://ranwella.wordpress.com/
> Pages 1-10 showing three wonderful and
> important temples (Ambalangoda, Kataluva, Ranwella) and
> providing an interior view of certain monastries.
> Pages 11-29 presenting certain buddhist themes painted in different
> styles during the last three centuries (11-29),
>
> Since paintings do not need to be translatet
> all can enjoy
>
> Heiner
>
>
> Dr. Rolf Heinrich Koch
> Germany: Munich 0049 (0)89 2607820
> Srilanka: Galle 0094 (0)77 8069712
> rolfheiner.koch at gmail.com
>
> few words I therefore
>
> enjoy
>
>
>


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From kauzeya at GMAIL.COM  Mon Jun 11 16:46:32 2012
From: kauzeya at GMAIL.COM (Jonathan Silk)
Date: Mon, 11 Jun 12 18:46:32 +0200
Subject: Death of Prof. Hajime Sakurabe              (=?UTF-8?Q?=E6=AB=BB=E9=83=A8=E5=BB=BA)?=
Message-ID: <161227096503.23782.15863945050392105962.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

dear Colleagues,

I just received the very sad news of the passing of Prof. Hajime Sakurabe
(???) on June 8th. I trust that a proper appreciation of this remarkable
scholar (and, as far as I knew him, lovely person) will be published in
short order.

Jonathan Silk

-- 
J. Silk
Instituut Kern / Universiteit Leiden
Leiden University Institute for Area Studies, LIAS
Johan Huizinga Building, Room 1.37
Doelensteeg 16
2311 VL Leiden
The Netherlands


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From karp at UW.EDU.PL  Mon Jun 11 18:02:55 2012
From: karp at UW.EDU.PL (Artur Karp)
Date: Mon, 11 Jun 12 20:02:55 +0200
Subject: Sinhala ligatures
Message-ID: <161227096506.23782.3480402373215584940.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Dear List Members,


I have agreed to prepare the international transliteration and Polish
transcription
tables for the Sinhalese script - for a publication planned by the
Commission on Standardization of Geographical Names outside the
Republic of Poland.

Unfortunately, the Sinhalese fonts I have at my disposal (Potha,
Iskool Pota, Kandy & Kaputa Unicode) do not allow one to create
ligatures ( sucha sa: kva, k?a, ??a, ddha, dva, tva, nda, etc.). The
same goes for grafemes with adscript consonants (r-, -r, -y: ??a, rya,
dra, dya, kya, tya, vya).

The Web has a lot of examples of such ligatures, but always inserted
in the text as graphic files.

Does anyone, by any chance, know of a downloadable Sinhala font that
would show these elements? Or - of such ligatures emebedded in some
document - but not as graphics?

Thanking you in advance,



Artur Karp

Senior Lecturer in Sanskrit and Pali (ret.)
South Asian Studies Dept.
University of Warsaw.




From karp at UW.EDU.PL  Wed Jun 13 08:57:59 2012
From: karp at UW.EDU.PL (Artur Karp)
Date: Wed, 13 Jun 12 10:57:59 +0200
Subject: Sinhala ligatures
In-Reply-To: <CAEgrCzDygbvZG-8tYmXcUGnVBcXSPcZDAdHBHCCSEzn8rYhTBQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <161227096511.23782.7600363333059061661.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Dear Colleagues,

my sincere thanks to?Tatiana Oranskaia, Rohana Seneviratne, James Gair
and Simon Wiles - who used some of their valuable time to answer my
request for assistance re Sinhala fonts and ligatures.

I am now well equipped to tackle my task head on.

The bhashittha complex font sent by Simon Wiles seems to solve all my
problems with the Sinhala script (simple and conjunct letters), and
all what is needed for the transliteration is supplied by the gandhari
unicode font.

Thanks once more,

Artur Karp




From simonjwiles at GMAIL.COM  Wed Jun 13 06:43:07 2012
From: simonjwiles at GMAIL.COM (Simon Wiles)
Date: Wed, 13 Jun 12 14:43:07 +0800
Subject: Sinhala ligatures
In-Reply-To: <CAEgrCzD3iB=4zSofFVWEiSh+OG4Xk0y26hgo_N8YdRZpW2afrA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <161227096508.23782.16949953092394999411.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Dear Professor Karp,

I happen to have been doing some limited research on digital Sinhala
script just last week (I was writing a Sinhala <-> Roman
transliterator), and I think the following may be of help to you:


On Mon, 2012-06-11 at 20:02 +0200, Artur Karp wrote:
> Unfortunately, the Sinhalese fonts I have at my disposal (Potha,
> Iskool Pota, Kandy & Kaputa Unicode) do not allow one to create
> ligatures ( sucha sa: kva, k?a, ??a, ddha, dva, tva, nda, etc.). The
> same goes for grafemes with adscript consonants (r-, -r, -y: ??a, rya,
> dra, dya, kya, tya, vya).

As you know, there are several different kinds of ligatures in Sinhala
script, and to get them to be displayed in a given environment requires
three things:

1) font support (the font must contain the necessary graphemes and
glyphs, and must have the necessary ligature tables);

2) software support (the rendering engine of the software platform you
are using must invoke and apply the correct ligature substitutions); and

3) the ak?aras you're using must be encoded correctly.

Since many (I think all?) of the fonts you mention can do at least the
non-vocalic -y (ya?saya ????) and -r (rak?r??saya ????????) strokes (and
the rendering engines of modern word-processors shouldn't be a problem),
I think you might not have correctly encoded ak?aras.

The problem is that many ligatures in Sinhala script are optional, and
so the Unicode standard for Sinhala is capable of representing different
forms.  Generally, you need to add the Unicode "Zero Width Joiner" (ZWJ,
U+200D) in the right place (usually after the Sinhala vir?ma, aka hal
kir?ma or al-lakuna, U+0DCA) to specify that you want the rendering
engine to render the ligature form, if its available in the font.

Standard combining ligatures (b?n?di akuru ???? ?????), including r-
(repaya), are optional and few of them are commonly used in modern
Sinhalese, as I understand it.  As such, in the absence of the ZWJ after
the vir?ma they will be rendered with the explicit vir?ma visible
(although if this is intentional, the use of an explicit ZWNJ, U+200C,
is strongly recommended by Unicode PR-96[1]).  I think this is what you
must be seeing?

[1] http://unicode.org/review/pr-96.html

"Touching" ligatures (spar?a akuru ??????? ?????), which I believe are
only found in classical and Buddhist texts, are specified by placing the
ZWJ _before_ the vir?ma.


> The Web has a lot of examples of such ligatures, but always inserted
> in the text as graphic files.
> 
> Does anyone, by any chance, know of a downloadable Sinhala font that
> would show these elements? Or - of such ligatures emebedded in some
> document - but not as graphics?

I created a document showing a range of different kinds of ligatures,
how they are constructed in Unicode, and how they are rendered by
different fonts.  You can take a look here:

http://simonwiles.net/files/sinhala_fonts_and_ligatures.pdf

The only freely-available font I could find which renders all of them
"correctly" is BhashitaComplex, which you can get from here:

http://www.locallanguages.lk/sinhala_unicode_converters

and the most useful documentation on Unicode Sinhala I could find last
week was this document:

http://www.siyabas.lk/files/Sri_Lanka_Standard_Sinhala_Character_Code_for_Information_Interchange_SLS_1134_-_2004.pdf                         
[ alt. link: http://tinyurl.com/6rqz37n ]


Disclaimer:  I don't really read Sinhala script (and certainly not
Sinhalese), and this information took a whole afternoon to track down
and assemble from different sources, so I would appreciate corrections,
clarifications or comments!

I hope this information is useful to you.


Take care,

simon




From arlogriffiths at HOTMAIL.COM  Wed Jun 13 14:46:23 2012
From: arlogriffiths at HOTMAIL.COM (Arlo Griffiths)
Date: Wed, 13 Jun 12 14:46:23 +0000
Subject: Sino-Indian Studies 5 (1956)
Message-ID: <161227096514.23782.15880343931383376553.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>


Dear colleagues,

If any one has access to the following article, and a means of producing a scan, I shall be a grateful recipient:

Sarkar, Kalyan Kumar, 1956, "The earliest inscription of Indochina", Sino-Indian Studies, 5(2), p. 77-87. 

Thank you.

Arlo Griffiths
EFEO/Jakarta
 		 	   		  


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From mmdesh at UMICH.EDU  Thu Jun 14 00:39:37 2012
From: mmdesh at UMICH.EDU (Deshpande, Madhav)
Date: Thu, 14 Jun 12 00:39:37 +0000
Subject: Shantipur OT font
In-Reply-To: <CAKdt-CeBRkoch=AexfF6VeBBmgXtGht1zfwt169_rEDM84J0qA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <161227096522.23782.17148054895454222210.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Hi Dominik,

     Does this font have some special features?  If it does, may be I would like to have it as well.

Madhav 
________________________________________
From: Indology [INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk] on behalf of Dominik Wujastyk [wujastyk at GMAIL.COM]
Sent: Wednesday, June 13, 2012 8:16 PM
To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk
Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] Shantipur OT font

Thanks, I now have a copy.  Took less than 5 minutes, I think.

Amazing thing, this network of generous colleagues.

Best,
Dominik



On 14 June 2012 02:06, Dominik Wujastyk <wujastyk at gmail.com<mailto:wujastyk at gmail.com>> wrote:
If anyone has this font, would they be so kind as to send me a copy?  The email address given at http://www.scsmath.narod.ru/6ot/ot.htm
doesn't work.

I'm after Shantipur OT, not Shantipur 99.

Many thanks,
Dominik Wujastyk




From wujastyk at GMAIL.COM  Thu Jun 14 00:06:08 2012
From: wujastyk at GMAIL.COM (Dominik Wujastyk)
Date: Thu, 14 Jun 12 02:06:08 +0200
Subject: Shantipur OT font
Message-ID: <161227096517.23782.10751181471859621609.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

If anyone has this font, would they be so kind as to send me a copy?  The
email address given at http://www.scsmath.narod.ru/6ot/ot.htm
doesn't work.

I'm after Shantipur OT, not Shantipur 99.

Many thanks,
Dominik Wujastyk


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From wujastyk at GMAIL.COM  Thu Jun 14 00:16:22 2012
From: wujastyk at GMAIL.COM (Dominik Wujastyk)
Date: Thu, 14 Jun 12 02:16:22 +0200
Subject: Shantipur OT font
In-Reply-To: <CAKdt-CcBA8r=1m=d+5606eerGK3aWCDrj4C2UdS83ScZ6Z73JQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <161227096520.23782.8727650371556195420.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Thanks, I now have a copy.  Took less than 5 minutes, I think.

Amazing thing, this network of generous colleagues.

Best,
Dominik



On 14 June 2012 02:06, Dominik Wujastyk <wujastyk at gmail.com> wrote:

> If anyone has this font, would they be so kind as to send me a copy?  The
> email address given at http://www.scsmath.narod.ru/6ot/ot.htm
> doesn't work.
>
> I'm after Shantipur OT, not Shantipur 99.
>
> Many thanks,
> Dominik Wujastyk
>
>


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From karp at UW.EDU.PL  Thu Jun 14 01:31:50 2012
From: karp at UW.EDU.PL (Artur Karp)
Date: Thu, 14 Jun 12 03:31:50 +0200
Subject: Shantipur OT font
In-Reply-To: <CAEgrCzBfr_KxfnDnZX5mgB=fLXZ4F==59460tLuMHf4Lc9vqFw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <161227096525.23782.8228623811562663173.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Dear Dominik,

A very elegant font, and so -

Me, too, please  ---


Artur Karp

Warsaw


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From dbhattacharya200498 at YAHOO.COM  Thu Jun 14 05:38:11 2012
From: dbhattacharya200498 at YAHOO.COM (Dipak Bhattacharya)
Date: Thu, 14 Jun 12 13:38:11 +0800
Subject: Shantipur OT font
In-Reply-To: <1A6D14A87B9BB84D9BFBF8AE65CA1DE425B245BC@its-embx-02.adsroot.itcs.umich.edu>
Message-ID: <161227096528.23782.11669795344508477158.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

I too tried but the email address did not work even after I corrected (at) to @. The inbox informed failure
DB



________________________________
 From: "Deshpande, Madhav" <mmdesh at UMICH.EDU>
To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk 
Sent: Thursday, 14 June 2012 6:09 AM
Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] Shantipur OT font
 
Hi Dominik,

? ?  Does this font have some special features?? If it does, may be I would like to have it as well.

Madhav 
________________________________________
From: Indology [INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk] on behalf of Dominik Wujastyk [wujastyk at GMAIL.COM]
Sent: Wednesday, June 13, 2012 8:16 PM
To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk
Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] Shantipur OT font

Thanks, I now have a copy.? Took less than 5 minutes, I think.

Amazing thing, this network of generous colleagues.

Best,
Dominik



On 14 June 2012 02:06, Dominik Wujastyk <wujastyk at gmail.com<mailto:wujastyk at gmail.com>> wrote:
If anyone has this font, would they be so kind as to send me a copy?? The email address given at http://www.scsmath.narod.ru/6ot/ot.htm
doesn't work.

I'm after Shantipur OT, not Shantipur 99.

Many thanks,
Dominik Wujastyk


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From dbhattacharya200498 at YAHOO.COM  Thu Jun 14 05:39:54 2012
From: dbhattacharya200498 at YAHOO.COM (Dipak Bhattacharya)
Date: Thu, 14 Jun 12 13:39:54 +0800
Subject: Shantipur OT font
In-Reply-To: <1A6D14A87B9BB84D9BFBF8AE65CA1DE425B245BC@its-embx-02.adsroot.itcs.umich.edu>
Message-ID: <161227096530.23782.6581525420268753477.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>





________________________________
 From: "Deshpande, Madhav" <mmdesh at UMICH.EDU>
To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk 
Sent: Thursday, 14 June 2012 6:09 AM
Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] Shantipur OT font
 
Hi Dominik,

? ?  Does this font have some special features?? If it does, may be I would like to have it as well.

Madhav 
________________________________________
From: Indology [INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk] on behalf of Dominik Wujastyk [wujastyk at GMAIL.COM]
Sent: Wednesday, June 13, 2012 8:16 PM
To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk
Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] Shantipur OT font

Thanks, I now have a copy.? Took less than 5 minutes, I think.

Amazing thing, this network of generous colleagues.

Best,
Dominik



On 14 June 2012 02:06, Dominik Wujastyk <wujastyk at gmail.com<mailto:wujastyk at gmail.com>> wrote:
If anyone has this font, would they be so kind as to send me a copy?? The email address given at http://www.scsmath.narod.ru/6ot/ot.htm
doesn't work.

I'm after Shantipur OT, not Shantipur 99.

Many thanks,
Dominik Wujastyk


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From dbhattacharya200498 at YAHOO.COM  Thu Jun 14 05:46:44 2012
From: dbhattacharya200498 at YAHOO.COM (Dipak Bhattacharya)
Date: Thu, 14 Jun 12 13:46:44 +0800
Subject: Fw: [INDOLOGY] Shantipur OT font
In-Reply-To: <1339652394.10305.YahooMailNeo@web193503.mail.sg3.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <161227096533.23782.6256012636708107178.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>




The email did not work with me too even after (at) was corrected to @. Something happened to this mail of mine that I am sending for the second time.
DB? 

----- Forwarded Message -----
From: Dipak Bhattacharya <dbhattacharya200498 at yahoo.com>
To: "INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk" <INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk>; MadhavDeshpande <mmdesh at umich.edu> 
Sent: Thursday, 14 June 2012 11:09 AM
Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] Shantipur OT font
 




________________________________
 From: "Deshpande, Madhav" <mmdesh at UMICH.EDU>
To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk 
Sent: Thursday, 14 June 2012 6:09 AM
Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] Shantipur OT font
 
Hi Dominik,

? ?  Does this font have some special features?? If it does, may be I would like to have it as well.

Madhav 
________________________________________
From: Indology [INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk] on behalf of Dominik Wujastyk [wujastyk at GMAIL.COM]
Sent: Wednesday, June 13, 2012 8:16 PM
To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk
Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] Shantipur OT font

Thanks, I now have a copy.? Took less than 5 minutes, I think.

Amazing thing, this network of generous colleagues.

Best,
Dominik



On 14 June 2012 02:06, Dominik Wujastyk <wujastyk at gmail.com<mailto:wujastyk at gmail.com>> wrote:
If anyone has this
 font, would they be so kind as to send me a copy?? The email address given at http://www.scsmath.narod.ru/6ot/ot.htm
doesn't work.

I'm after Shantipur OT, not Shantipur 99.

Many thanks,
Dominik Wujastyk


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From wujastyk at GMAIL.COM  Thu Jun 14 14:50:32 2012
From: wujastyk at GMAIL.COM (Dominik Wujastyk)
Date: Thu, 14 Jun 12 16:50:32 +0200
Subject: Shantipur OT font
In-Reply-To: <CAKdt-CcBA8r=1m=d+5606eerGK3aWCDrj4C2UdS83ScZ6Z73JQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <161227096536.23782.16692542943521833261.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

A copy of the font can be downloaded from here:

   - https://dl.dropbox.com/u/2372616/SantipurOT.ttf

I just wanted it to check it's ligature features.  It's got an appealing
design for anyone raised on Nir?ayas?gara/Lanman type fonts, as does
Sanskrit 2003.

I won't answer any questions about the font, installation, etc.  And it
will disappear from the above location after a while.  I don't want to
tread on the toes of the author of the font, who has his own preferences
about distribution.  Presumably he will update his email address in due
course.

Enjoy,
Dominik


On 14 June 2012 02:06, Dominik Wujastyk <wujastyk at gmail.com> wrote:

> If anyone has this font, would they be so kind as to send me a copy?  The
> email address given at http://www.scsmath.narod.ru/6ot/ot.htm
> doesn't work.
>
> I'm after Shantipur OT, not Shantipur 99.
>
> Many thanks,
> Dominik Wujastyk
>
>


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From mmdesh at UMICH.EDU  Thu Jun 14 17:32:55 2012
From: mmdesh at UMICH.EDU (Deshpande, Madhav)
Date: Thu, 14 Jun 12 17:32:55 +0000
Subject: Shantipur OT font
In-Reply-To: <CAKdt-Cd5Y8og_EPZi9AVNKn9z=2u74_3nRo5xRvK-YXbsKpAfw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <161227096540.23782.17754196350432497621.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Thanks, Dominik.  Best,

Madhav (in Pune)

Madhav M. Deshpande
Professor of Sanskrit and Linguistics
Department of Asian Languages and Cultures
202 South Thayer Street, Suite 6111
The University of Michigan
Ann Arbor, Michigan 48104-1608, USA
________________________________________
From: Indology [INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk] on behalf of Dominik Wujastyk [wujastyk at GMAIL.COM]
Sent: Thursday, June 14, 2012 10:50 AM
To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk
Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] Shantipur OT font

A copy of the font can be downloaded from here:

  *   https://dl.dropbox.com/u/2372616/SantipurOT.ttf

I just wanted it to check it's ligature features.  It's got an appealing design for anyone raised on Nir?ayas?gara/Lanman type fonts, as does Sanskrit 2003.

I won't answer any questions about the font, installation, etc.  And it will disappear from the above location after a while.  I don't want to tread on the toes of the author of the font, who has his own preferences about distribution.  Presumably he will update his email address in due course.

Enjoy,
Dominik


On 14 June 2012 02:06, Dominik Wujastyk <wujastyk at gmail.com<mailto:wujastyk at gmail.com>> wrote:
If anyone has this font, would they be so kind as to send me a copy?  The email address given at http://www.scsmath.narod.ru/6ot/ot.htm
doesn't work.

I'm after Shantipur OT, not Shantipur 99.

Many thanks,
Dominik Wujastyk






From info at BARKHUIS.NL  Fri Jun 15 10:03:11 2012
From: info at BARKHUIS.NL (Roelf Barkhuis)
Date: Fri, 15 Jun 12 12:03:11 +0200
Subject: eJIM - new issue and new registration policy
Message-ID: <161227096545.23782.14148075338480718572.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Dear Indologists,

 

eJIM, the eJournal of Indian medicine, has just published a new issue. See
http://www.indianmedicine.nl. 

 

eJIM has a new registration policy: from now on all articles and the
Archives can be accessed without registration. Registered users, however,
will be notified by email on publication of an issue of the journal, new
books or news items.

 

We currently have over 1,000 registered users.

 

Roelf Barkhuis

eJIM Journal manager

 

Barkhuis

Zuurstukken 37

9761 KP  Eelde

the Netherlands

+31 (0)50 3080936

info at barkhuis.nl

www.barkhuis.nl

 



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From dbhattacharya200498 at YAHOO.COM  Fri Jun 15 07:11:28 2012
From: dbhattacharya200498 at YAHOO.COM (Dipak Bhattacharya)
Date: Fri, 15 Jun 12 15:11:28 +0800
Subject: Santipur OT
Message-ID: <161227096542.23782.747278022273726055.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

It is a beautiful font.
Best
DB


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From karp at UW.EDU.PL  Fri Jun 15 13:14:14 2012
From: karp at UW.EDU.PL (Artur Karp)
Date: Fri, 15 Jun 12 15:14:14 +0200
Subject: Fwd: [INDOLOGY] Santipur OT
In-Reply-To: <CAEgrCzDqtLFHVWx7=yKQuCEUTk1Hp2VkgU-A6FrdD2kkBMwbgw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <161227096548.23782.14975857259597308055.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Artur Karp <karp at uw.edu.pl>
Date: 2012/6/15
Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] Santipur OT
To: Dipak Bhattacharya <dbhattacharya200498 at yahoo.com>


A problem there?

Simple consonantal graphemes combine well with vowel modifiers (like ? + ?
> ??).

But not ligatures. They do not combine at all. ??  ?? ?? ?? ?? ?? ?? ?? ?? ??
??.

Do I miss something?

Concerned,

Artur Karp


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From jpo at UTS.CC.UTEXAS.EDU  Sun Jun 17 13:27:06 2012
From: jpo at UTS.CC.UTEXAS.EDU (Patrick Olivelle)
Date: Sun, 17 Jun 12 08:27:06 -0500
Subject: Santipur OT
In-Reply-To: <CAEgrCzDcNHERey+GgCQyG4uOCx6SzWvJKug0EL+nJqZD=nO8Lg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <161227096554.23782.2770087717163932136.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

As many of us MAC-people know, all this can be accomplished easily on MACs by using the keyboard "Devanarati - QWERTY". Unfortunately, this does not work well with MS Word, which does not support Unicode well (at least on MACs). I use Pages from Apple, and all the conjuncts come out well. You simply type as you would in transliteration, but for conducts you have to type the first letter then "F" (the Halant key) and the the second key, and magically the conjunct appears. I have been able to all this well only with the Unicode Font Tacoma. I would like to know the experience of others with other fonts. Sometimes to get unusual conjuncts, you have to go to Fonts (under Format), select All Fonts; and then at the bottom press the button with a gear symbol and invoke "Typography" - and there you see a button for "Rare Ligatures". But some difficult fonts I find can be done only in "TextEdit" -- and I am able then to simply copy and paste. I found the following instructions useful.

Patrick

To generate default conjuncts, type the first character followed by the Halant (also called Virama) key, then the next character. To generate explicit half-forms for alternative conjuncts, or independent half-forms, type the character followed by the Halant key and the Nukta key. To generate an "eyelash RA," type RA plus Nukta plus Halant. To generate a Nukta consonant, type the character plus Nukta. To prevent conjuncts, type two Halants.


 

Note that the Halant/Virama key is the D key on Devanagari keyboards and the F key on Devanagari-QWERTY keyboards. The Nukta key is the ] key on Devanagari keyboards and the Shift-F key on Devanagari-QWERTY keyboards. RA is the J key on Devanagari keyboards and the R key on Devanagari-QWERTY keyboards.

 

To make special conjuncts used in Sanskrit,  try selecting the font Devanagari MT in the Font Panel, going to Advanced (gear wheel) > Typography, and checking the box for Additional Conjuncts.
















On Jun 17, 2012, at 2:34 AM, Artur Karp wrote:

> Dear All, 
> 
> The problem is already solved. A friendly and kind advice (or 'hitopade?a') from Dr. Viacheslav Zaytsev from the Institute of Oriental Manuscripts of the Russian Academy of Sciences, St. Petersburg. 
> 
> To whom my special thanks. 
> 
> In fact a simple operation. To produce, say, ndrya: from the symbols table of, say, Arial Unicode, select ?, add virama, add ?, add virama, add ?, add virama, add ?:
> 
> [na + virama - n + da - nda + virama - nd + ra - ndra + virama - ndr + ya = ndrya]
> 
> ? - ?? - ??? - ???? - ????? - ?????? - ???????
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ??? ????? ???
> 
> 
> 
> The same rule goes for santipur OT, bengali fonts, like shonar.ttf or vrinda.ttf, etc. 
> 
> 
> 
> Best, 
> 
> 
> 
> Artur Karp
> 
> 
> 
> Senior Lecturer in Sanskrit and Pali (ret.)
> 
> South Asian Studies Dept. 
> 
> Oriental Faculty
> 
> University of Warsaw
> 



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From karp at UW.EDU.PL  Sun Jun 17 07:34:29 2012
From: karp at UW.EDU.PL (Artur Karp)
Date: Sun, 17 Jun 12 09:34:29 +0200
Subject: Santipur OT
In-Reply-To: <CAEgrCzCQmB80aL7scOP83cAi8wmqPiE6hERqqF=BDS_5L7Fd4g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <161227096551.23782.10306787140192023873.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Dear All,

The problem is already solved. A friendly and kind advice (or 'hitopade?a')
from Dr. Viacheslav Zaytsev from the Institute of Oriental Manuscripts of
the Russian Academy of Sciences, St. Petersburg.

To whom my special thanks.

In fact a simple operation. To produce, say, *ndrya*: from the symbols
table of, say, Arial Unicode, select *?*, add *virama*, add *?*, add *virama
*, add *?*, add *virama*, add ?:

[na + virama - n + da - nda + virama - nd + ra - ndra + virama - ndr + ya =
ndrya]

? - ?? - ??? - ???? - ????? - ?????? - ???????


??? ????? ???


The same rule goes for santipur OT, bengali fonts, like shonar.ttf or
vrinda.ttf, etc.


Best,


Artur Karp


Senior Lecturer in Sanskrit and Pali (ret.)

South Asian Studies Dept.

Oriental Faculty

University of Warsaw


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From rhayes at UNM.EDU  Mon Jun 18 13:29:30 2012
From: rhayes at UNM.EDU (Richard Hayes)
Date: Mon, 18 Jun 12 07:29:30 -0600
Subject: Santipur OT
In-Reply-To: <78129641-AF61-429D-A204-1F3DA0AADDE9@uts.cc.utexas.edu>
Message-ID: <161227096558.23782.10172541227655040882.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

On Jun 17, 2012, at 7:27 AM, Patrick Olivelle <jpo at UTS.CC.UTEXAS.EDU> wrote:

> As many of us MAC-people know, all this can be accomplished easily on MACs by using the keyboard "Devanarati - QWERTY". Unfortunately, this does not work well with MS Word, which does not support Unicode well (at least on MACs).

A few years ago I put together a set of Keynote presentations for teaching Sanskrit. Alas, when I converted them to PowerPoint and viewed them in Microsoft Office, they were badly garbled. The only workaround I could find to make them available to Windows-based students was to export them as PDF files. All the MS Office for Mac applications I have tested make a mess of Unicode once one uses non-roman scripts. Why can't Apple and Microsoft learn to get along?

Richard Hayes
Department of Philosophy
University of New Mexico




From kellner at ASIA-EUROPE.UNI-HEIDELBERG.DE  Mon Jun 18 14:17:20 2012
From: kellner at ASIA-EUROPE.UNI-HEIDELBERG.DE (Kellner, Birgit)
Date: Mon, 18 Jun 12 16:17:20 +0200
Subject: A verse listing ten uses for the Sanskrit present tense
Message-ID: <161227096560.23782.419101437237089909.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Dear colleagues, 
 
this is a question for the Vaiy?kara?as. In his Vy?khy?yukti, Vasubandhu cites a verse which lists ten instances where the present tense is used - and these all might be instances where the present tense is used for something past. The text is only preserved in Tibetan translation, and I was wondering whether anyone knows where the list might be from. It is followed by examples for each of these uses. My understanding of the ten uses is: 

(1) Incompletion, (2) proximity to the present, (3) capability, (4) continuity, (5) disposition, (6) general state of affairs, (7) repetition, (8) becoming, (9) desire, (10) perfection. 
  
The Tibetan reads: 
 
ma zin ?id da? ?e ba ?id /
/ nus da? rgyun mi 'chad ?id da? /
/ de ?a? (corr. : da?) chos ?id ya? da? ya? /
/ srid da? 'dod rdzogs rnams la 'byu? /
 
Help would be greatly appreciated, 
 
all the best, 
 
Birgit Kellner


----------
Prof. Dr. Birgit Kellner
Chair of Buddhist Studies
Cluster of Excellence "Asia and Europe in a Global Context - Shifting Asymmetries in Cultural Flows"
University of Heidelberg
Karl Jaspers Centre
Vossstra?e 2, Building 4400
D-69115 Heidelberg
Phone: +49(0)6221 - 54 4301
Fax: +49(0)6221 - 54 4012
http://www.asia-europe.uni-heidelberg.de/en/home.html




From wujastyk at GMAIL.COM  Mon Jun 18 15:43:29 2012
From: wujastyk at GMAIL.COM (Dominik Wujastyk)
Date: Mon, 18 Jun 12 17:43:29 +0200
Subject: Santipur OT
In-Reply-To: <2C83312D-79F7-4529-8D40-C7293B06B5F5@unm.edu>
Message-ID: <161227096562.23782.7798711695369971365.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

are you unconsciously (or consciously?) echoing Rodney King?

Dominik
<http://wujastyk.net/pgp.html>



On 18 June 2012 15:29, Richard Hayes <rhayes at unm.edu> wrote:

> On Jun 17, 2012, at 7:27 AM, Patrick Olivelle <jpo at UTS.CC.UTEXAS.EDU>
> wrote: Why can't Apple and Microsoft learn to get along?
>
> Richard Hayes
> Department of Philosophy
> University of New Mexico


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From saf at SAFARMER.COM  Tue Jun 19 17:57:48 2012
From: saf at SAFARMER.COM (Steve Farmer)
Date: Tue, 19 Jun 12 13:57:48 -0400
Subject: Harappan script
In-Reply-To: <20120619160520.5716.qmail@f4mail-235-223.rediffmail.com>
Message-ID: <161227096567.23782.2723472070347025536.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Alakendu Das writes:

> If anybody may throw light by way of referring any opinion/journals/books on deciphering of Harrappan Script pertaining to the Indus Valley civilisation.


On this acrimonious issue opinion/journal/books flow in endless streams, as they have for the past 135 years or so. :^)

Can I suggest that another open-ended discussion about "deciphering" symbols whose linguistic status is itself disputed is hardly appropriate on the List?  It is torturous to have to revisit the same territory repeatedly.

I suggest that those interested go to the List archives here

http://listserv.liv.ac.uk/cgi-bin/wa?S1=indology

and type in the words (no quotes) "Indus script".

Then add in the Since Box (again no quotes) "2011".

That will take you to the last of many List discussions on the topic, involving summaries of the conflicting views of Asko Parpola, me and my colleagues, and others -- all based on already published and readily available papers.

If you want older discussions -- often reiterating the same arguments -- expand on the date range in the search fields to 1999 or so. You will find further opinions, etc., in abundance.

Warm regards,
Steve Farmer

On Jun 19, 2012, at 12:05 PM, alakendu das wrote:

> To all,
> If anybody may throw light by way of referring any opinion/journals/books on deciphering of Harrappan Script pertaining to the Indus Valley civilisation.
> 
> 
> Alakendu Das,
> Post-Graduate,Indology.
> mailme




From gthomgt at GMAIL.COM  Tue Jun 19 19:11:42 2012
From: gthomgt at GMAIL.COM (George Thompson)
Date: Tue, 19 Jun 12 15:11:42 -0400
Subject: Harappan script
In-Reply-To: <1A5F3223-DD4D-4BD7-BC5D-50709BFA2EEB@safarmer.com>
Message-ID: <161227096570.23782.1225705298844872878.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Dear List,

I too have grown weary of this debate, but some list members may not
be aware of this article by Harry Falk:

"Foreign Terms Pertaining to Writing in Sanskrit"

which has appeared in a collection:

*The Idea of Writing: Play and Complexity*, ed. by Alexander J. de
Voogt, Irving L. Finkel, [Brill 2010].

In this article, Harry asserts, in his first footnote, that "the
arguments brought forward by Farmer, Sproat, & Witzel (2004) against
the nature of the Harappan signs as 'script' are not convincing,
individually or as a whole.  I concur  with the counter-arguments
amassed by Parpola [2008]."

Parpola 2008:

"Is the Indus script indeed not a writing system?"  in Airaavati:
Felicitation Volume in Honour of Iravatham Mahadevan (pp. 111-131).
Chennai (Varallaru.com).

The issue is apparently not yet settled.

Best wishes,

George Thompson

On Tue, Jun 19, 2012 at 1:57 PM, Steve Farmer <saf at safarmer.com> wrote:
> Alakendu Das writes:
>
>> If anybody may throw light by way of referring any opinion/journals/books on deciphering of Harrappan Script pertaining to the Indus Valley civilisation.
>
>
> On this acrimonious issue opinion/journal/books flow in endless streams, as they have for the past 135 years or so. :^)
>
> Can I suggest that another open-ended discussion about "deciphering" symbols whose linguistic status is itself disputed is hardly appropriate on the List? ?It is torturous to have to revisit the same territory repeatedly.
>
> I suggest that those interested go to the List archives here
>
> http://listserv.liv.ac.uk/cgi-bin/wa?S1=indology
>
> and type in the words (no quotes) "Indus script".
>
> Then add in the Since Box (again no quotes) "2011".
>
> That will take you to the last of many List discussions on the topic, involving summaries of the conflicting views of Asko Parpola, me and my colleagues, and others -- all based on already published and readily available papers.
>
> If you want older discussions -- often reiterating the same arguments -- expand on the date range in the search fields to 1999 or so. You will find further opinions, etc., in abundance.
>
> Warm regards,
> Steve Farmer
>
> On Jun 19, 2012, at 12:05 PM, alakendu das wrote:
>
>> To all,
>> If anybody may throw light by way of referring any opinion/journals/books on deciphering of Harrappan Script pertaining to the Indus Valley civilisation.
>>
>>
>> Alakendu Das,
>> Post-Graduate,Indology.
>> mailme




From saf at SAFARMER.COM  Tue Jun 19 19:59:29 2012
From: saf at SAFARMER.COM (Steve Farmer)
Date: Tue, 19 Jun 12 15:59:29 -0400
Subject: Harappan script
In-Reply-To: <CAP1Y1zv56NJf3=TsnvKGz8buvQMPjMJCi6AzTMCBbA3D3RMQCA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <161227096572.23782.15306256885790283378.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

A citation of one person's opinion cited ex cathedra ("the arguments brought forward by Farmer, Sproat, & Witzel... are not convincing") is supposed to be taken seriously as a scientific argument? 

Citations from linguists on the other side supporting us can be given just as easily, which doesn't prove anything either. 

Science isn't a matter of auctoritas.

> The issue is apparently not yet settled.

Which is why I suggested we forgo another acrimonious open-ended discussion that repeats the same views constantly without any attempt to bring things to a resolution.

Many of the key arguments that we forwarded in our 2004 paper, found here

http://www.safarmer.com/fsw2.pdf

aren't even accurately summarized in the literature, let alone seriously discussed. It is the kind of paper, like so many others these days when information is bombarded at us so fast, that are downloaded (many hundreds of thousands of times since 2004, probably more than any other paper in the field) and talked about far more than read. 

The most recent odd comment about the so-called Indus script controversy is by Meadows and Kenoyer, in an essay included in Vol. 3 of the Corpus, who now leave it all in limbo and argue that it doesn't *matter* whether it was a script or not. 

Reference and discussion here:

http://www.safarmer.com/IndusValleyFantasies.pdf

With all due respect to my friend Richard Meadow, it matters a lot -- for reasons discussed in that long abstract. :^)

Please note that Asko's position on the "script" has radically changed as well due to our paper, as he generously acknowledged at the last Indus conference we attended together in Kyoto in 2009 (Parpola's "script" by then had turned into a "proto-script," which is a big change rom the views Asko had consistently put forward since the the 1960s; but note that we anticipated this argument too in our 2004 paper on pp. 33 ff.)

So true, things aren't "settled," or opinions at least aren't settled, on the issue. As I've long argued, what is needed now is a _Current Anthropology_ style discussion that forces all sides to respond point-by-point, in an iterative way, to the arguments rather than turning this into another shouting matching authorities against counter-authorities. 

We do plan that (a _Current Anthropology_ style article) for the next year, if we can as we hope free up the time.

'm convinced that the issue *can* be definitively settled this way. We have tried the other ways (e.g. the Conference funded in part by the National Science Foundation and the American Linguistic Society that Richard Sproat and I organized at Stanford in 2007, etc.) without luck, since we couldn't get Asko at the time to agree to the point-by-point discussion we proposed.

But the issue still *does* need to be settled, for many reasons, and I'm convinced it will happen at least in the next few years, via the _Current Anthropology_-type format.

Regards,
Steve Farmer

On Jun 19, 2012, at 3:11 PM, George Thompson wrote:

> Dear List,
> 
> I too have grown weary of this debate, but some list members may not
> be aware of this article by Harry Falk:
> 
> "Foreign Terms Pertaining to Writing in Sanskrit"
> 
> which has appeared in a collection:
> 
> *The Idea of Writing: Play and Complexity*, ed. by Alexander J. de
> Voogt, Irving L. Finkel, [Brill 2010].
> 
> In this article, Harry asserts, in his first footnote, that "the
> arguments brought forward by Farmer, Sproat, & Witzel (2004) against
> the nature of the Harappan signs as 'script' are not convincing,
> individually or as a whole.  I concur  with the counter-arguments
> amassed by Parpola [2008]."
> 
> Parpola 2008:
> 
> "Is the Indus script indeed not a writing system?"  in Airaavati:
> Felicitation Volume in Honour of Iravatham Mahadevan (pp. 111-131).
> Chennai (Varallaru.com).
> 
> The issue is apparently not yet settled.
> 
> Best wishes,
> 
> George Thompson
> 
> On Tue, Jun 19, 2012 at 1:57 PM, Steve Farmer <saf at safarmer.com> wrote:
>> Alakendu Das writes:
>> 
>>> If anybody may throw light by way of referring any opinion/journals/books on deciphering of Harrappan Script pertaining to the Indus Valley civilisation.
>> 
>> 
>> On this acrimonious issue opinion/journal/books flow in endless streams, as they have for the past 135 years or so. :^)
>> 
>> Can I suggest that another open-ended discussion about "deciphering" symbols whose linguistic status is itself disputed is hardly appropriate on the List?  It is torturous to have to revisit the same territory repeatedly.
>> 
>> I suggest that those interested go to the List archives here
>> 
>> http://listserv.liv.ac.uk/cgi-bin/wa?S1=indology
>> 
>> and type in the words (no quotes) "Indus script".
>> 
>> Then add in the Since Box (again no quotes) "2011".
>> 
>> That will take you to the last of many List discussions on the topic, involving summaries of the conflicting views of Asko Parpola, me and my colleagues, and others -- all based on already published and readily available papers.
>> 
>> If you want older discussions -- often reiterating the same arguments -- expand on the date range in the search fields to 1999 or so. You will find further opinions, etc., in abundance.
>> 
>> Warm regards,
>> Steve Farmer
>> 
>> On Jun 19, 2012, at 12:05 PM, alakendu das wrote:
>> 
>>> To all,
>>> If anybody may throw light by way of referring any opinion/journals/books on deciphering of Harrappan Script pertaining to the Indus Valley civilisation.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Alakendu Das,
>>> Post-Graduate,Indology.
>>> mailme
> 




From mailmealakendudas at REDIFFMAIL.COM  Tue Jun 19 16:05:20 2012
From: mailmealakendudas at REDIFFMAIL.COM (alakendu das)
Date: Tue, 19 Jun 12 16:05:20 +0000
Subject: Harappan script
Message-ID: <161227096565.23782.13918999310240694663.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>


 To all,
        If anybody may throw light  by way of referring any opinion/journals/books on deciphering of Harrappan Script  pertaining to the Indus Valley civilisation.

                                             
                                                   Alakendu Das,
                                                   Post-Graduate,Indology.
                                                mailme


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From rhayes at UNM.EDU  Tue Jun 19 22:16:01 2012
From: rhayes at UNM.EDU (Richard Hayes)
Date: Tue, 19 Jun 12 16:16:01 -0600
Subject: Harappan script
In-Reply-To: <CAP1Y1zsYxidxDGPNroSr4JLU=zPzYQfNtkkpEkbtt4dPoNWDAw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <161227096579.23782.18402946812562459569.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

On Jun 19, 2012, at 16:05 , George Thompson wrote:
On Tue, Jun 19, 2012 at 3:59 PM, Steve Farmer <saf at safarmer.com> wrote:
On Jun 19, 2012, at 3:11 PM, George Thompson wrote:
On Jun 19, 2012, at 12:05 PM, alakendu das wrote:

Fellows... 

Richard Hayes
Department of Philosophy
Humanities Bldg 525
Mobile: (505) 977-7703




From gthomgt at GMAIL.COM  Tue Jun 19 22:05:34 2012
From: gthomgt at GMAIL.COM (George Thompson)
Date: Tue, 19 Jun 12 18:05:34 -0400
Subject: Harappan script
In-Reply-To: <CAP1Y1zuF-0LP-WWRAxDNaomyhONHn8rnfuesYOLo=JsM-QMsww@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <161227096575.23782.17488247301546500368.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

On Tue, Jun 19, 2012 at 6:02 PM, George Thompson <gthomgt at gmail.com> wrote:
> Look, I just wanted to point out that the matter isn't settled, and
> since you have conceded that point already, huffing and puffing about
> ex cathedra arguments and auctoritas from people like you is, well,
> kind of laughable.
>
> If citations from the other side are insignificant, then why do you
> feel the need to cite Meadows and Kenoyer?
>
> Nothing but that typical Farmer hustle here,
>
> GT
>
> On Tue, Jun 19, 2012 at 3:59 PM, Steve Farmer <saf at safarmer.com> wrote:
>> A citation of one person's opinion cited ex cathedra ("the arguments brought forward by Farmer, Sproat, & Witzel... are not convincing") is supposed to be taken seriously as a scientific argument?
>>
>> Citations from linguists on the other side supporting us can be given just as easily, which doesn't prove anything either.
>>
>> Science isn't a matter of auctoritas.
>>
>>> The issue is apparently not yet settled.
>>
>> Which is why I suggested we forgo another acrimonious open-ended discussion that repeats the same views constantly without any attempt to bring things to a resolution.
>>
>> Many of the key arguments that we forwarded in our 2004 paper, found here
>>
>> http://www.safarmer.com/fsw2.pdf
>>
>> aren't even accurately summarized in the literature, let alone seriously discussed. It is the kind of paper, like so many others these days when information is bombarded at us so fast, that are downloaded (many hundreds of thousands of times since 2004, probably more than any other paper in the field) and talked about far more than read.
>>
>> The most recent odd comment about the so-called Indus script controversy is by Meadows and Kenoyer, in an essay included in Vol. 3 of the Corpus, who now leave it all in limbo and argue that it doesn't *matter* whether it was a script or not.
>>
>> Reference and discussion here:
>>
>> http://www.safarmer.com/IndusValleyFantasies.pdf
>>
>> With all due respect to my friend Richard Meadow, it matters a lot -- for reasons discussed in that long abstract. :^)
>>
>> Please note that Asko's position on the "script" has radically changed as well due to our paper, as he generously acknowledged at the last Indus conference we attended together in Kyoto in 2009 (Parpola's "script" by then had turned into a "proto-script," which is a big change rom the views Asko had consistently put forward since the the 1960s; but note that we anticipated this argument too in our 2004 paper on pp. 33 ff.)
>>
>> So true, things aren't "settled," or opinions at least aren't settled, on the issue. As I've long argued, what is needed now is a _Current Anthropology_ style discussion that forces all sides to respond point-by-point, in an iterative way, to the arguments rather than turning this into another shouting matching authorities against counter-authorities.
>>
>> We do plan that (a _Current Anthropology_ style article) for the next year, if we can as we hope free up the time.
>>
>> 'm convinced that the issue *can* be definitively settled this way. We have tried the other ways (e.g. the Conference funded in part by the National Science Foundation and the American Linguistic Society that Richard Sproat and I organized at Stanford in 2007, etc.) without luck, since we couldn't get Asko at the time to agree to the point-by-point discussion we proposed.
>>
>> But the issue still *does* need to be settled, for many reasons, and I'm convinced it will happen at least in the next few years, via the _Current Anthropology_-type format.
>>
>> Regards,
>> Steve Farmer
>>
>> On Jun 19, 2012, at 3:11 PM, George Thompson wrote:
>>
>>> Dear List,
>>>
>>> I too have grown weary of this debate, but some list members may not
>>> be aware of this article by Harry Falk:
>>>
>>> "Foreign Terms Pertaining to Writing in Sanskrit"
>>>
>>> which has appeared in a collection:
>>>
>>> *The Idea of Writing: Play and Complexity*, ed. by Alexander J. de
>>> Voogt, Irving L. Finkel, [Brill 2010].
>>>
>>> In this article, Harry asserts, in his first footnote, that "the
>>> arguments brought forward by Farmer, Sproat, & Witzel (2004) against
>>> the nature of the Harappan signs as 'script' are not convincing,
>>> individually or as a whole. ?I concur ?with the counter-arguments
>>> amassed by Parpola [2008]."
>>>
>>> Parpola 2008:
>>>
>>> "Is the Indus script indeed not a writing system?" ?in Airaavati:
>>> Felicitation Volume in Honour of Iravatham Mahadevan (pp. 111-131).
>>> Chennai (Varallaru.com).
>>>
>>> The issue is apparently not yet settled.
>>>
>>> Best wishes,
>>>
>>> George Thompson
>>>
>>> On Tue, Jun 19, 2012 at 1:57 PM, Steve Farmer <saf at safarmer.com> wrote:
>>>> Alakendu Das writes:
>>>>
>>>>> If anybody may throw light by way of referring any opinion/journals/books on deciphering of Harrappan Script pertaining to the Indus Valley civilisation.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On this acrimonious issue opinion/journal/books flow in endless streams, as they have for the past 135 years or so. :^)
>>>>
>>>> Can I suggest that another open-ended discussion about "deciphering" symbols whose linguistic status is itself disputed is hardly appropriate on the List? ?It is torturous to have to revisit the same territory repeatedly.
>>>>
>>>> I suggest that those interested go to the List archives here
>>>>
>>>> http://listserv.liv.ac.uk/cgi-bin/wa?S1=indology
>>>>
>>>> and type in the words (no quotes) "Indus script".
>>>>
>>>> Then add in the Since Box (again no quotes) "2011".
>>>>
>>>> That will take you to the last of many List discussions on the topic, involving summaries of the conflicting views of Asko Parpola, me and my colleagues, and others -- all based on already published and readily available papers.
>>>>
>>>> If you want older discussions -- often reiterating the same arguments -- expand on the date range in the search fields to 1999 or so. You will find further opinions, etc., in abundance.
>>>>
>>>> Warm regards,
>>>> Steve Farmer
>>>>
>>>> On Jun 19, 2012, at 12:05 PM, alakendu das wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> To all,
>>>>> If anybody may throw light by way of referring any opinion/journals/books on deciphering of Harrappan Script pertaining to the Indus Valley civilisation.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Alakendu Das,
>>>>> Post-Graduate,Indology.
>>>>> mailme
>>>




From saf at SAFARMER.COM  Tue Jun 19 22:21:11 2012
From: saf at SAFARMER.COM (Steve Farmer)
Date: Tue, 19 Jun 12 18:21:11 -0400
Subject: Harappan script
In-Reply-To: <CAP1Y1zsYxidxDGPNroSr4JLU=zPzYQfNtkkpEkbtt4dPoNWDAw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <161227096577.23782.5737277734978079703.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

I obviously didn't cite Meadow and Kenoyer as authorities in support of any position.

I cited their most recent view ("it doesn't matter whether it is writing or not") as one piece of evidence of how radically different discussion of the Indus issue has become since our 2004 paper was published. There remarks would have been unthinkable before that.

Citing shifts in a field isn't part of a "hustle,"nor is calling for a _Current Anthropology_-type of peer-reviewed discussion of one of the most important issues in studies of ancient India. That's simply science looking for a way to resolve a critical debate. 

That's all I called for. I do think that putting together such a collaborative discussion will resolve the issue in the next few years.

S. Farmer

On Jun 19, 2012, at 6:05 PM, George Thompson wrote:

> On Tue, Jun 19, 2012 at 6:02 PM, George Thompson <gthomgt at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Look, I just wanted to point out that the matter isn't settled, and
>> since you have conceded that point already, huffing and puffing about
>> ex cathedra arguments and auctoritas from people like you is, well,
>> kind of laughable.
>> 
>> If citations from the other side are insignificant, then why do you
>> feel the need to cite Meadows and Kenoyer?
>> 
>> Nothing but that typical Farmer hustle here,
>> 
>> GT
>> 




From eastwestcultural at YAHOO.COM  Wed Jun 20 12:15:57 2012
From: eastwestcultural at YAHOO.COM (Dean Michael Anderson)
Date: Wed, 20 Jun 12 05:15:57 -0700
Subject: Harappan script
Message-ID: <161227096581.23782.5200685594854805935.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

? > On Tue, Jun 19, 2012 at 3:59 PM, Steve Farmer <saf at safarmer.com> wrote:
???
 >>I'm convinced that the issue *can* be definitively settled this
 way. We have tried the other ways (e.g. the Conference funded in part 
by the National Science Foundation and the American Linguistic Society 
that Richard Sproat and I organized at Stanford in 2007, etc.) without 
luck, since we couldn't get Asko at the time to agree to the 
point-by-point discussion 
>>

Are the conference findings available anywhere? Or is there at least a detailed summary of the points discussed by both sides?

I've been able to locate some criticism of the FSW theory but haven't found any in-depth discussion supporting FSW by other experts in the field. Even the criticism has generally been more impressionistic than detailed.

I agree with Steve that something like a Current Anthropology discussion would be valuable. I fear, however, that while it would be very illuminating, it might still be inconclusive.
 So far I still agree with Greg Possehl's conclusion in his book, Indus Age: The Writing System -- there is a need for more basic research before we can know for sure. Ideally this would be free of
 assumptions about which language, or non-language, it represents.

Even then it may elude us. I don't think we should try to rush to a final conclusion. These things take their own time and it may be left for a future generation to finally unravel the mystery. The discussion is valuable, nevertheless, if only to clarify the issues.

To address the original question, here is a basic list of books on the subject. There's lots more but these are important to know about.

Parpola, Asko, 2000. Deciphering the Indus script.
Also his 3 volumes of: Corpus of Indus Seals and Inscriptions.
More of his publications are at: http://www.helsinki.fi/~aparpola/index.html

Steve Farmer, Richard Sproat, and Michael Witzel. The collapse of the Indus-script thesis: The myth of a literate Harappan civilization.??????
 http://www.safarmer.com/fsw2.pdf

Possehl, Gregory. The Indus Age: The Writing System.

Iravatham Mahadevan. The Indus Script: Texts, Concordance and Tables.

Bryan K. Wells. 2011. Epigraphic approaches to Indus writing.


Best,

Dean





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From h.arganisjuarez at YAHOO.COM.MX  Thu Jun 21 02:47:07 2012
From: h.arganisjuarez at YAHOO.COM.MX (Horacio Francisco Arganis Juarez)
Date: Wed, 20 Jun 12 19:47:07 -0700
Subject: Harappan script
In-Reply-To: <1340194557.60993.YahooMailClassic@web161202.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <161227096584.23782.8913216476859331848.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Thanks very much to Dr. Aderson and others.With all due respect for all. Same ?I disagree with the attempts to decipher the symbols of Shindu valley. It is not scientific to become passionate and closed, recalcitrant with those does question our work. Openness to new initiatives is always good. Same ?they are no most successful, then openess is the way to new concerns. I recommend to all over-read Thomas s. Kuhn. The Structure of Scientific Revolutions.Sincerily.

Dr. Horacio Francisco Arganis Ju?rez

Lic. M.A. Ph. D. Catedr?tico Investigador de la Universidad

Internacional Euroamericana.

Departamento de Filosof?a y Religi?n Comparada.

www.uie.edu.es

--- El mi? 20-jun-12, Dean Michael Anderson <eastwestcultural at YAHOO.COM> escribi?:

De: Dean Michael Anderson <eastwestcultural at YAHOO.COM>
Asunto: Re: [INDOLOGY] Harappan script
A: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk
Fecha: mi?rcoles, 20 de junio de 2012, 12:15

? > On Tue, Jun 19, 2012 at 3:59 PM, Steve Farmer <saf at safarmer.com> wrote:
???
 >>I'm convinced that the issue *can* be definitively settled this
 way. We have tried the other ways (e.g. the Conference funded in part 
by the National Science Foundation and the American Linguistic Society 
that Richard Sproat and I organized at Stanford in 2007, etc.) without 
luck, since we couldn't get Asko at the time to agree to the 
point-by-point discussion 
>>

Are the conference findings available anywhere? Or is there at least a detailed summary of the points discussed by both sides?

I've been able to locate some criticism of the FSW theory but haven't found any in-depth discussion supporting FSW by other experts in the field. Even the criticism has generally been more impressionistic than detailed.

I agree with Steve that something like a Current Anthropology discussion would be valuable. I fear, however, that while it would be very illuminating, it might still be inconclusive.
 So far I still agree with Greg Possehl's conclusion in his book, Indus Age: The Writing System -- there is a need for more basic research before we can know for sure. Ideally this would be free of
 assumptions about which language, or non-language, it represents.

Even then it may elude us. I don't think we should try to rush to a final conclusion. These things take their own time and it may be left for a future generation to finally unravel the mystery. The discussion is valuable, nevertheless, if only to clarify the issues.

To address the original question, here is a basic list of books on the subject. There's lots more but these are important to know about.

Parpola, Asko, 2000. Deciphering the Indus script.
Also his 3 volumes of: Corpus of Indus Seals and Inscriptions.
More of his publications are at: http://www.helsinki.fi/~aparpola/index.html

Steve Farmer, Richard Sproat, and Michael Witzel. The collapse of the Indus-script thesis: The myth of a literate Harappan civilization.??????
 http://www.safarmer.com/fsw2.pdf

Possehl, Gregory. The Indus Age: The Writing System.

Iravatham Mahadevan. The Indus Script: Texts, Concordance and Tables.

Bryan K. Wells. 2011. Epigraphic approaches to Indus writing.


Best,

Dean





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From witzel at FAS.HARVARD.EDU  Thu Jun 21 10:14:52 2012
From: witzel at FAS.HARVARD.EDU (Michael Witzel)
Date: Thu, 21 Jun 12 06:14:52 -0400
Subject: Pune Skt Dictionary !
Message-ID: <161227096587.23782.10928049787975961262.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Of interest for Sanskritists (and linguists) :

http://www.indianexpress.com/news/60-years-later-sanskrit-dictionary-stuck-in-first-letter/619837/0


60 years later, Sanskrit dictionary stuck in first letter

INDIAN EXPRESS
Anubhuti Vishnoi : New Delhi, Mon May 17 2010, 04:30 hrs

This project has already taken over 60 years, and could easily take another 100 years or more. Started in 1948, the ambitious Sanskrit to English Dictionary project undertaken by the Deccan College Post Graduate and Research Institute, Pune, is still stuck in the very first alphabet.

While the Centre has ensured that the project is flush with funds, those involved with the project blame the delay on the shortage of manpower.

?There are 27 sanctioned posts for the project. For 20 years now, we have been working with just three staffers. We have been requesting the HRD Ministry to allow us to fill the remaining positions, but the ministry feels we should appoint people on contract,? said Prof Vinayak Bhatta, director of the college and chief editor of the Sanskrit Dictionary project.

?However, for a project of this magnitude and gravity, we require the best of Sanskrit scholars with knowledge of all branches of Sanskrit and with a near decade-long experience in its study. Why will a scholar of that stature join us on contract? At present, with just three editors and another few staffers sanctioned by the Mahrashatra government we have a strength of just 10 people. Of the three editors, one or two are set to retire soon. At this rate how can there be much progress?? added Bhatta, who has been associated with the project since 1978.

?That we are now at letter ?A? and have reached words starting with ?ap? over the last few decades should not come as a surprise. While we are grateful to the HRD Ministry for the funds granted, we urgently need more talented manpower. What must be kept in mind is that no project can match ours in terms of its historical and linguistic wealth,? said Bhatta.

Admitting that the team is looking at years of mounting work before it can give the world the most comprehensive encyclopaedic language dictionary for the early Aryan language, Bhatta added: ?Give me 50-100 scholars and I will finish the project in no time?.

Meanwhile, the HRD ministry is pushing for complete digitisation of the project. Plodding at some 1,540 Sanskrit texts including the Vedas and Upanishads, the Centre has culled out a staggering 1 crore references to various Sanskrit words. These references are jotted down carefully on brittle paper ?slips?. After a special grant of Rs 5 crore for Deccan College in the Union Budget in 2008, Rs 2.5 crore has been set aside for digitisation of these slips.

Over the last few decades, eight volumes of the dictionary ? all dealing with words beginning with the first alphabet ? have been published. The HRD Ministry wants these to be digitised as well.


> ============
> Michael Witzel
> witzel at fas.harvard.edu
> <www.fas.harvard.edu/~witzel/mwpage.htm>
> Wales Prof. of Sanskrit &
> Director of Graduate Studies,
> Dept. of South Asian Studies, Harvard University
> 1 Bow Street,
> Cambridge MA 02138, USA
> 
> phone: 1- 617 - 495 3295, 496 8570, fax 617 - 496 8571;
> my direct line:  617- 496 2990









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From mkapstei at UCHICAGO.EDU  Thu Jun 21 12:07:01 2012
From: mkapstei at UCHICAGO.EDU (mkapstei at UCHICAGO.EDU)
Date: Thu, 21 Jun 12 07:07:01 -0500
Subject: Pune Skt Dictionary !
In-Reply-To: <CAKdt-CcOYRjz1U=_Y6onBdJs+GzFX==2X50E5+6wDn-12XyjYw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <161227096595.23782.9786971284243346960.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>


>   Prof Vinayak Bhatta, director of Deccan College and
>   chief editor of the Sanskrit Dictionary project, is
>   quoted as saying:
>
>     ?Give me 50-100 scholars and I will finish the
>     project in no time"

Somehow this reminds me of the old joke about the Japanese development 
team's visit with the chief minister of Bihar:

Japanese: "given the rich resources of your state, give us three years and 
we'll turn Bihar into a second Japan."

CM: "that's nothing. Give me three months and I will turn Japan into a 
second Bihar!"

--Matthew




From wujastyk at GMAIL.COM  Thu Jun 21 11:33:08 2012
From: wujastyk at GMAIL.COM (Dominik Wujastyk)
Date: Thu, 21 Jun 12 13:33:08 +0200
Subject: Pune Skt Dictionary !
In-Reply-To: <C95C5998-35C5-4188-9FCE-251D9A6CD9D5@fas.harvard.edu>
Message-ID: <161227096590.23782.5499423266943953760.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Prof Vinayak Bhatta, director of Deccan College and chief editor of the
Sanskrit Dictionary project, is quoted as saying:

> ?Give me 50-100 scholars and I will finish the project in no time?.
>

In the now-classic work of project management, *The Mythical
Man-Month*<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Mythical_Man-Month>,
Fred Brooks argued compellingly that adding more people to a delayed
project does not necessarily speed up the work.

The reason for this is that more people means more inter-personal
communication, and the person-to-person links rise at a rate that is
exponential to the number of people.

I do think that the Poona dictionary project would benefit critically from
additional personnel, but probably not "50-100."  And the configuration and
management of the working groups would be just as important as the added
numbers of staff.

Brooks has many important and interesting things to say about conducting
projects, falling behind, and optimum staff numbers and configurations.
His central insight has now been immortalized as "Brooks's
Law<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brooks%27_law>."
As he noted drily, "Nine women can't make a baby in one month."

Best,
Dominik


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From wujastyk at GMAIL.COM  Thu Jun 21 12:05:15 2012
From: wujastyk at GMAIL.COM (Dominik Wujastyk)
Date: Thu, 21 Jun 12 14:05:15 +0200
Subject: Fwd: live feed of Jaganath Yatra
In-Reply-To: <CAEzwJrCimuCVepKxKN+Bg2vPrugi-ELhCXO80SMg-DRwaPJ2=Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <161227096593.23782.15576308505938180180.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: patrick mccartney <psdmccartney at gmail.com>
Date: 21 June 2012 06:11
Subject: live feed of Jaganath Yatra
To: INDOLOGYCOMMITTEE at liverpool.ac.uk


Dear All,

If you would like to see what is happening today, right now, in Puri then
this link <http://rathyatra.fullorissa.com/>will let you experience the
Jagannath Yatra.

-- 
All the best,

Patrick McCartney

PhD Candidate - Anthropology
School of Culture, History & Language
College of the Asia-Pacific
Rm 4.30 Baldessin Precinct Building
The Australian National University
Canberra, Australia, 0200

skype - psdmccartney
W- +61 2 6125 4323

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AfpCc8G_cUw&feature=related


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From wedemeyer at UCHICAGO.EDU  Fri Jun 22 00:41:29 2012
From: wedemeyer at UCHICAGO.EDU (Christian K. Wedemeyer)
Date: Thu, 21 Jun 12 19:41:29 -0500
Subject: Hardy on Venkatesa
Message-ID: <161227096598.23782.504590634317119626.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

In his 1979 article in JIP, "The Philosopher as Poet," Friedhelm Hardy states that he is preparing "a full study and translations of Venkatesa's stotras and prabhandhams." Was this ever published? and, if so, where? I can't seem to find anything that fits the bill.

Thanks in advance,

Christian




--
Christian K. Wedemeyer
Associate Professor of the History of Religions
University of Chicago Divinity School
1025 E 58th Street
Chicago, IL 60637
P Please consider the environment before printing this e-mail.
This email is intended only for the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed and may contain information that is privileged and confidential. If the reader of this email message is not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution, or copying of this communication is prohibited. If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender and destroy/delete all copies of the transmittal. Thank you



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From garzilli at ASIATICA.ORG  Fri Jun 22 19:29:48 2012
From: garzilli at ASIATICA.ORG (Enrica Garzilli)
Date: Fri, 22 Jun 12 21:29:48 +0200
Subject: International Journal of Tantric Studies (IJTS) vol. 8,              n. 1 (June 22, 2012)
Message-ID: <161227096600.23782.14635069693895232048.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Dear Friends and Colleagues,

I am happy to announce that we have just published the International 
Journal of Tantric Studies (IJTS) vol. 8, n. 1.
http://asiatica.org/ijts/8-1/


In this issue
Papers: ?The ?Scandalous? Tantric Hymn to K?l? Karp?r?di-stotra: an 
Expurgated Translation?, by Dr. John R. Dupuche; ?China Shadows and 
Tibet Flames: The ?Policy of Immolations? and Future Scenarios?,  by 
Piero Verni (freely accessible).


Abstract: ?The ?Scandalous? Tantric Hymn to K?l? Karp?r?di-stotra: An 
Expurgated Translation, by John R. Dupuche

Through his Tantrik Texts Series (1913-1940) Sir John Woodroffe 
initiated modern Western studies of the tantras. However, his 1922 
translation of the Karp?r?di-stotra reveals how much he and his 
collaborators felt constrained to purge the scandalous aspects from the 
text. It is seriously flawed, and yet still commonly used. This article 
describes the rather complex story of the editions and commentaries on 
the stotra, together with some suggestions on date and authorship. It 
then provides an unexpurgated translation of the Karp?r?di-stotra along 
with the Sanskrit text. Lastly, it provides a short commentary on the 
structure of the text and its purpose.
A question arises: if Woodroffe had to conceal essential elements of the 
Karp?r?di-stotra, how reliable are the other translations and 
commentaries in his Tantrik Texts Series?



Dr. Enrica Garzilli
IJTS & JSAWS
http://asiatica.org/




From j_e_m_houben at YAHOO.COM  Sat Jun 23 13:45:22 2012
From: j_e_m_houben at YAHOO.COM (Jan E.M. Houben)
Date: Sat, 23 Jun 12 06:45:22 -0700
Subject: For those who are in Paris on 30 June: Sanskrit Day in Maison de              l'Inde
Message-ID: <161227096602.23782.2429245733484963480.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Journ?e du sanskrit / Sanskrit day

30 juin 2012
Maison de l?Inde, Cit? Universitaire
Boulevard Jourdan 75014 PARIS

Programme
15.00 Vastupradar;sinii sa;mskrtasambhaa.sa.na;m ca?
Exposition and conversation in sanskrit by Gopabandhu Misra?

and his students

15.30 Bhagavadgiitaa presented by Marc Ballenfat and?Bhandari.?
16.00 Madhuraa.s.taka and K.r.s.nastotras chanted by Rupi?Shah
16.15 Seine-stotram composed and recited by Gopabandhu Misra

16.30 Pause

17.00 Ka.niiyaan Raajakumaara.h Le Petit Prince de Saint?
Exup?ry translated into sanskrit by Gopabandhu Misra;?

extracts played by the children Aditya, Atharva, Ayan and?Shreya. ?
17.30 Sau;sravasa-Paa.nini-;saastrariiti-dvaya-pariik:saa?
"Euclid and Paa.nini: an investigation of two scientific?

methodologies" by Jan Houben

18.00?Sa;msk.rtamaahaatmyam by P.-S. Filliozat
18.30 ;Saakuntalanaa.takam, by Kaalidaasa translated by A.L.?
Ch?zy in 1830: extracts selected and presented by Vasundhara?

Filliozat, read in Sanskrit by V. Filliozat and Gopabandhu?

Mi;sra, in French by the Compagnie Claudie Decultis; verses?

illustrated in dance by Bhamati Filliozat.?


Free entry:?
contact?
01 42789895 or?
Maison de l'Inde 01 53807800 (10-12h, 15-17h, 20-22h)


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From wujastyk at GMAIL.COM  Sat Jun 23 21:47:05 2012
From: wujastyk at GMAIL.COM (Dominik Wujastyk)
Date: Sat, 23 Jun 12 23:47:05 +0200
Subject: The Wellcome Library's              Ni=?UTF-8?Q?=C5=9Bv=C4=81satattvasa=E1=B9=83hit=C4=81?= man              uscript,
Message-ID: <161227096605.23782.16739692476842860508.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

*Executive summary

*The correct library reference for this manuscript is

   - "*Wellcome MS Indic ? 41*"
   or
   - "Wellcome MS Indic delta 41"

*Discussion*

In 1985, I published the first public description of this manuscript (Wujastyk
1985 <http://library.wellcome.ac.uk/assets/wtx063096.pdf>, pp.151-52,
serial no.622).  I attach a PDF of these pages to this email.  The
manuscript was stated to be "*shelved at **? 41*."

This is a location on the shelves of the Wellcome Library stack, where the
staff know to find the manuscript.  The Indic manuscripts in the Wellcome
Library are shelved following the "abcd" size-related shelving scheme of
the British Library, that is to say, small manuscripts are at "a," bigger
ones at "b" and so on.  "?" means quite large manuscripts.  The Greek, not
Latin, letters were used for the Wellcome Indic manuscripts to distinguish
them clearly from numerous earlier confused and overlapping identification
schemes.shelved at ? 41

One of these earlier schemes was derived from a partial list created in
1954 by the eminent Prof. V. Raghavan of Madras.  He visited the library
for about three months that year, and went rapidly through many bundles of
Sanskrit, Prakrit and Hindi manuscripts.  He scribbled alpha-numerical
identifiers on the bundles and individual manuscripts, often using a blue
crayon.  He later delivered to the library a rough, typed list of about
3000 titles (about half the collection) that listed titles in order of
these alpha-numerical identifiers.  His list was crude and inconsistent,
but nevertheless a major contribution and very useful as being the only
guide to the collection between 1954 and 1977 (when I started curatorial
work on the Wellcome manuscripts).  Unfortunately, after Raghavan's visit,
a library curator who did not know Sanskrit tried to rearrange the
collection physically according to subject matter.  This and other physical
interventions caused many further confusions and losses of identity, so
that by 1977 the Raghavan list in many cases no longer corresponded to the
physically identifiable manuscripts on the shelves and in various boxes and
cupboards.

Unfortunately, several "Raghavan numbers" got into the public domain,
because scholars including Agehananda Bharati visited the library and read
the Raghavan list.  David Pingree also published numerous "Raghavan
numbers" in his *Census of the Exact Sciences* and his *Astral Literature.
*At least in Pingree's case, he actually saw and described the manuscripts
(or photos) that he referred to, so they are guaranteed to exist, even if
finding them physically may be hard.

To sum up, the Wellcome "Greek" shelf numbers are the current, public,
accurate identifiers for items in the Wellcome Library's Indic
collections.  If you cite a Greek shelfmark, the staff can look it up in a
list, they can physically find the manuscript on the shelf, they can query
a database to see if it has been microfilmed or digitized, etc. etc.
That's its real identifier.

The Raghavan numbers are strongly deprecated.  They have never been
formally published by the library, and in many cases they are not reliable
in any case.

Raghavan gave the number I.33 to the *Ni?v?satattvasa?hit?* manuscript that
is now called "Wellcome MS Indic delta 41".  I am sorry to see that this
obsolete and unpublished Raghavan number keeps popping up in publications,
most recently in Jacobsen's *Yoga Powers* (Brill, 2012, p.298).  It's
really only by good luck that "I.33" actually once corresponded to
something on the shelf that I was able to locate.  That designation is not
used in any published library documentation nor is it used for the physical
shelving of the manuscripts in the library stacks.  If a reader requests MS
"I.33," or any Raghavan number, it is a matter of pure chance whether the
library will be able to match it to a physical object.  If the reader does
ever get the manuscript, it is quite possible that the staff have had to
consult me privately to find out what was being asked for, since there has
been no Sanskritist on the staff since I left in 2002.

Best,
Dominik

--
Dr Dominik Wujastyk
Department of South Asia, Tibetan and Buddhist Studies<http://stb.univie.ac.at>
,
University of Vienna,
Spitalgasse 2-4, Courtyard 2, Entrance 2.1
1090 Vienna, Austria
and
Adjunct Professor,
Division of Health and Humanities,
St. John's Research Institute, <http://www.sjri.res.in/> Bangalore, India.
Project <http://www.istb.univie.ac.at/caraka/> | home
page<http://www.academia.edu/DominikWujastyk>|
PGP <http://wujastyk.net/pgp.html>


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From j_e_m_houben at YAHOO.COM  Sun Jun 24 10:23:14 2012
From: j_e_m_houben at YAHOO.COM (Jan E.M. Houben)
Date: Sun, 24 Jun 12 03:23:14 -0700
Subject: For those who are in Paris on 30 June: Sanskrit Day in Maison              de l'Inde
In-Reply-To: <1340459122.98058.YahooMailNeo@web43143.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <161227096608.23782.1293056060615044534.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Since I used an older programme the presentation by?
Amba Kulkarni and Gerar Huet?
Sa:nga.nakiiya;m Sa;msk.rtam "Sanskrit and artificial intelligence"?
at 18:00 is still to be added.?

The latest programme is therefore as follows (see contact numbers for further info and latest version):?

Journ?e du sanskrit / Sanskrit day
30 juin 2012
Maison de l?Inde, Cit? Universitaire
Boulevard Jourdan 75014 PARIS

Programme
15:00 Vastupradar;sinii sa;mskrtasambhaa.sa.na;m ca Exposition and conversation in sanskrit by Gopabandhu Misra and his students.
15:30 Bhagavadgiitaa presented by Marc Ballenfat and Bhandari.?
16:00 Madhuraa.s.taka and K.r.s.nastotras chanted by Rupi Shah.
16.15 Seine-stotram composed and recited by Gopabandhu Misra.
16:30 Pause
17:00 Ka.niiyaan Raajakumaara.h Le Petit Prince de Saint Exup?ry translated into sanskrit by Gopabandhu Misra; extracts played by the children Aditya, Atharva, Ayan and Shreya. ?
17:30 Sau;sravasa-Paa.nini-;saastrariiti-dvaya-pariik:saa "Euclid and Paa.nini: an investigation of two scientific methodologies" by Jan Houben.
18:00 Sa:nga.nakiiya;m Sa;msk.rtam "Sanskrit and artificial intelligence" by Amba Kulkarni and G?rard Huet.
18:30 Sa;msk.rtamaahaatmyam by P.-S. Filliozat.
19:00 ;Saakuntalanaa.takam, by Kaalidaasa translated by A.L. Ch?zy in 1830: extracts selected and presented by Vasundhara Filliozat, read in Sanskrit by V. Filliozat and Gopabandhu Mi;sra, in French by the Compagnie Claudie Decultis; verses illustrated in dance by Bhamati Filliozat.?
Bharatavaakyam "Concluding wishes of the players"

Free entry.?
For further information please contact:
01 42789895 or?
Maison de l'Inde 01 53807800 (10-12h, 15-17h, 20-22h)




________________________________
 From: Jan E.M. Houben <j_e_m_houben at YAHOO.COM>
To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk 
Sent: Saturday, June 23, 2012 3:45 PM
Subject: For those who are in Paris on 30 June: Sanskrit Day in Maison de l'Inde
 

Journ?e du sanskrit / Sanskrit day

30 juin 2012
Maison de l?Inde, Cit? Universitaire
Boulevard Jourdan 75014 PARIS

Programme
15.00 Vastupradar;sinii sa;mskrtasambhaa.sa.na;m ca?
Exposition and conversation in sanskrit by Gopabandhu Misra?

and his students

15.30 Bhagavadgiitaa presented by Marc Ballenfat and?Bhandari.?
16.00 Madhuraa.s.taka and K.r.s.nastotras chanted by Rupi?Shah
16.15 Seine-stotram composed and recited by Gopabandhu Misra

16.30 Pause

17.00 Ka.niiyaan Raajakumaara.h Le Petit Prince de Saint?
Exup?ry translated into sanskrit by Gopabandhu Misra;?

extracts played by the children Aditya, Atharva, Ayan and?Shreya. ?
17.30 Sau;sravasa-Paa.nini-;saastrariiti-dvaya-pariik:saa?
"Euclid and Paa.nini: an investigation of two scientific?

methodologies" by Jan Houben

18.00?Sa;msk.rtamaahaatmyam by P.-S. Filliozat
18.30 ;Saakuntalanaa.takam, by Kaalidaasa translated by A.L.?
Ch?zy in 1830: extracts selected and presented by Vasundhara?

Filliozat, read in Sanskrit by V. Filliozat and Gopabandhu?

Mi;sra, in French by the Compagnie Claudie Decultis; verses?

illustrated in dance by Bhamati Filliozat.?


Free entry:?
contact?
01 42789895 or?
Maison de l'Inde 01 53807800 (10-12h, 15-17h, 20-22h)


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From acerulli at UCHICAGO.EDU  Sun Jun 24 11:57:53 2012
From: acerulli at UCHICAGO.EDU (A.M.Cerulli)
Date: Sun, 24 Jun 12 07:57:53 -0400
Subject: CFP - 2013 AAS: Narrative Lit & Historiography
Message-ID: <161227096612.23782.15255109784178971601.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Dear Indologists,


Below please find a CFP for the 2013 AAS conference in San Diego (21-24
March).  We welcome abstracts of *250 words* from anyone interested in
presenting a paper.  We envision having 4-5 papers on the panel, among
which one will be from the panel conveners.  If interested, please submit
an abstract to both *Laura Desmond (**ldesmond at stlawu.edu) and Anthony
Cerulli (cerulli at hws.edu) by 6:00pm, Monday, 16 July.
*

Thank you,

Laura Desmond, St. Lawrence University

Anthony Cerulli, Hobart & William Smith Colleges





NARRATIVE LITERATURE AND HISTORIOGRAPHY IN SOUTH ASIA (provisional title)

The proposed panel follows two lines of inquiry into the relationship
between South Asian narrative literature and historiography.



The first line examines emic models of history that are expressed and
constituted by South Asian narrative texts.  Here papers might consider
questions such as: To the extent that narrative literary works are
historical acts, i.e. acts of saying something in a particular time and
place, how do they represent themselves in relation to other forms of
historical action?  To this end, panelists might probe the ways in which
texts present their own historicality, as well as that of their subjects.  Are
there markers or triggers in these works that allude to paratextual reality?
Are there markers to encourage certain kinds of historical interpretation
or ways of hearing a story, while discouraging others?  In asking these and
other related questions, this panel explores relationships set up by a text
between its own narrative and paratextual reality, and the ways in which a
particular text (or collection of texts) facilitates the ability of an
audience to reproduce those relationships.  This line of inquiry enquires
if some South Asian literary genres, periods, or bodies of literature link
themselves more explicitly to paratextual reality than do others, and
whether or not some genres lend themselves more readily to historical
interpretation.  A paper might therefore look at the different ways that
texts evince different degrees of interest in facticity.  How do these
texts create ?reality effects,? for example, to relate their own envisioned
historicity or the historicity of the events they narrate?



If the first line of inquiry asks what questions of history are raised by
South Asian narrative texts themselves, the second line seeks to explore
how these texts might answer the questions that we today bring with us when
we read them: How can South Asian literary/narrative genres best be engaged
as useful sources for historians?  Does a wholly imaginative work of
literature, if there can be such a thing, nevertheless contain data useful
for the construction of something like a ?historical record??  We
anticipate that this line of analysis would include reflection upon the
assumptions, methods, and limits of modern historiography and how these
might be not only challenged by the South Asian literary corpus, but also
supplemented or otherwise reenvisioned.


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From christophe.vielle at UCLOUVAIN.BE  Mon Jun 25 08:35:29 2012
From: christophe.vielle at UCLOUVAIN.BE (Christophe Vielle)
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 12 10:35:29 +0200
Subject: Conference Announcement/Call for papers: From Abhidhamma To              Abhidharma, Ghent, 8-9 July 2013
Message-ID: <161227096615.23782.17866290418779010062.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

The ?Ghent Centre for Buddhist Studies? of Ghent University, Belgium, and Dharma Drum Buddhist College, Taiwan, jointly organize the following conference:

 

>From Abhidhamma To Abhidharma

Early Buddhist Scholasticism in India, Central Asia, and China

 

The conference will take place in ?Het Pand?, conference centre of Ghent University, on 8 and 9 July 2013.

 

Conference papers on the following topics are welcome:

-       Indian Abhidharma Systems

-       The adoption and adaptation of Indian Abhidharma in China

-       The translation of Indian Abhidharma texts into Chinese

-       Hermeneutical issues concerning the Chinese reception of Indian Buddhist texts

-       The formation of Abhidharma schools in China

-       Chinese Abhidharma masters

-       The Importance of Abhidharma for the development of Chinese Buddhist schools

-       Central Asian manuscript founds

-       ?

On the occasion of the 120th birthday of the appointment of Louis de La Vall?e Poussin as professor at Ghent University in 1893, also a panel on the life and work of this famous buddhologist will be organized on July 9 2013. [for Lamotte's portrait of LVP see: http://www2.academieroyale.be/academie/documents/deLAVALLEEPOUSSINLouisARB_196538457.pdf]

Should you decide to attend, please send us the abstract of your paper by October 31, 2012. Abstracts should be send in electronic form to: bart.dessein at UGent.be

The abstracts will be evaluated by a scientific committee, formed by three scholars in the field. Notification of acceptance of your paper for presentation at the conference will be done by November 30, 2012.

Attendance of the conference is free of conference fee for paper presenters.

 We will inform you on the possible funding of lodging expenses from our side at a later date. This funding depends on the approval of our application with the concerned institutions.

 The conference fee for non-paper-presenters is set at 70 Euro. For non-paper presenters, no lodging expenses will be covered.

 For more information, please contact Bart Dessein at bart.dessein at UGent.be

  

Warmest regards,

Prof. dr. Bart Dessein

Ghent Centre for Buddhist Studies

http://www.cbs.ugent.be/

 

Prof. Huimin Bhikshu

President, Dharma Drum Buddhist College

Prof. Weijen Teng

Coordinator, Dharma Drum Buddhist College


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From julia.hegewald at UNI-BONN.DE  Mon Jun 25 14:37:46 2012
From: julia.hegewald at UNI-BONN.DE (Julia Hegewald)
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 12 16:37:46 +0200
Subject: Invitation to opening of Pianarosa Library, Bonn
Message-ID: <161227096622.23782.10125705773259261119.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Dear colleagues and friends,

Please find attached the invitation to the official opening of the Pianarosa
Jaina Library in Bonn, on Thursday 28th June 2012 at 6pm.

With best wishes,

Julia Hegewald.

-- 
Prof. Dr. Julia A. B. Hegewald
Professor of Oriental Art History
Head of Department
Universit?t Bonn
Institut f?r Orient- und Asienwissenschaften (IOA)
Abteilung f?r Asiatische und Islamische Kunstgeschichte
Adenauerallee 10
D ? 53113 Bonn
Germany

Email: julia.hegewald at uni-bonn.de
Tel. 0049-228-73 7213
Fax. 0049-228-73 4042

 

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From wujastyk at GMAIL.COM  Tue Jun 26 11:44:45 2012
From: wujastyk at GMAIL.COM (Dominik Wujastyk)
Date: Tue, 26 Jun 12 13:44:45 +0200
Subject: INDOLOGY website temporarily offline tonight
Message-ID: <161227096626.23782.4781594947245737173.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

 The  ISP from whom I rent space for the INDOLOGY.info
website<http://indology.info>has announced that it has to close its
servers for a few hours of
maintenance tonight.  They say they will be offline, or unreliable, during:

   - 26/06/2012 23:00:00 - 27/06/2012 02:30:00

These are Central European times.

Best,
Dominik Wujastyk
INDOLOGY.info website <http://indology.info>.


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From slindqui at MAIL.SMU.EDU  Wed Jun 27 02:25:43 2012
From: slindqui at MAIL.SMU.EDU (Lindquist, Steven)
Date: Wed, 27 Jun 12 02:25:43 +0000
Subject: Google and Endangered Languages
Message-ID: <161227096630.23782.3393626139555919184.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Small article that may be of interest:

"Google Launches Endangered Languages Website"
http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2406115,00.asp

Best,

Steven


STEVEN LINDQUIST, PH.D.
ASSOCIATE PROFESSOR
DIRECTOR OF ASIAN STUDIES
_____________
Department of Religious Studies
Southern Methodist University
PO Box 750202 | Dallas | TX | 75275
http://faculty.smu.edu/slindqui




From arlogriffiths at HOTMAIL.COM  Wed Jun 27 06:37:52 2012
From: arlogriffiths at HOTMAIL.COM (Arlo Griffiths)
Date: Wed, 27 Jun 12 06:37:52 +0000
Subject: FW: [INDOLOGY] Sino-Indian Studies 5 (1956)
In-Reply-To: <BLU128-W14085223D760C3F60B15B4A4E10@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <161227096638.23782.13083468881371823890.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>


Thank you very much, Benjamin!

I forward the pdf file which may be of interest to some others on the list, and which is mercifully light-weight.

Best wishes,

Arlo



From: fleming_b4 at hotmail.com
To: arlogriffiths at hotmail.com
Subject: RE: [INDOLOGY] Sino-Indian Studies 5 (1956)
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2012 17:00:46 -0400





Dear Arlo,
I am not sure if you received a copy of this article, but I ordered a copy and it just arrived.
Best,Benjamin

-- 

Benjamin Fleming, Visiting Scholar, Dept. of Religious Studies; Cataloger, Sanskrit Manuscripts, Rare Book & Manuscript Library;University of Pennsylvania 249 S. 36th Street, 201 Claudia Cohen HallPhiladelphia, PA 19104 U.S.A. Telephone - 215-900-5744http://www.sas.upenn.edu/~bfleming 

Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2012 14:46:23 +0000
From: arlogriffiths at HOTMAIL.COM
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Sino-Indian Studies 5 (1956)
To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk





Dear colleagues,

If any one has access to the following article, and a means of producing a scan, I shall be a grateful recipient:

Sarkar, Kalyan Kumar, 1956, "The earliest inscription of Indochina", Sino-Indian Studies, 5(2), p. 77-87. 

Thank you.

Arlo Griffiths
EFEO/Jakarta
 		 	   		   		 	   		   		 	   		  


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From palaniappa at AOL.COM  Wed Jun 27 12:19:15 2012
From: palaniappa at AOL.COM (Sudalaimuthu Palaniappan)
Date: Wed, 27 Jun 12 07:19:15 -0500
Subject: FW: [INDOLOGY] Sino-Indian Studies 5 (1956)
In-Reply-To: <BLU155-W2B76EE350471ECF8B82F6A5E70@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <161227096645.23782.12051180480421550566.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Dear Arlo,

On page 83 of the article, the name of the king is ?r? M?ra. Has not somebody already noted the connection between this name and the name M??a? of Tamil P???iya dynasty? (I am unable to recall the reference.) A P???iya king Mu?a-t-Tiru M??a? has authored two Classical Tamil poems. The Sanskrit form of Tiru M??a? will be ?r? M?ra. The name of a a later P???iya king was ?r? M?ra ?r?vallabha?. 

According to R. C. Majumdar (Study of Sanskrit in South-East Asia, p. 25), a Sanskrit inscription was discovered in a place called Vat Luong Kau dated to be of the second half of 5th century AD. "It begins with an invocation to Brahm?, Vi??u and ?iva and then refers to the great king (mahar?j?dhir?ja) ?rI Dev?n?ka and compares him with Yudhi??hira, Indra, DhanaJjaya, Indradyumna, ?ibi, Mah?puru?a, Kanakap???ya(?), the great Ocean and Meru."

Has the possible P???iya connection to Southeast Asia been explored by scholars after K. K. Sarkar?

Thanks

Regards,
Palaniappan

 


On Jun 27, 2012, at 1:37 AM, Arlo Griffiths wrote:

> Thank you very much, Benjamin!
> 
> I forward the pdf file which may be of interest to some others on the list, and which is mercifully light-weight.
> 
> Best wishes,
> 
> Arlo
> 
> 
> 
> From: fleming_b4 at hotmail.com
> To: arlogriffiths at hotmail.com
> Subject: RE: [INDOLOGY] Sino-Indian Studies 5 (1956)
> Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2012 17:00:46 -0400
> 
> Dear Arlo,
> 
> I am not sure if you received a copy of this article, but I ordered a copy and it just arrived.
> 
> Best,
> Benjamin
> 
> -- 
> 
> Benjamin Fleming, 
> Visiting Scholar, Dept. of Religious Studies; 
> Cataloger, Sanskrit Manuscripts, Rare Book & Manuscript Library;
> University of Pennsylvania 249 S. 36th Street, 
> 201 Claudia Cohen Hall
> Philadelphia, PA 19104 U.S.A. 
> Telephone - 215-900-5744
> http://www.sas.upenn.edu/~bfleming 
> 
> 
> Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2012 14:46:23 +0000
> From: arlogriffiths at HOTMAIL.COM
> Subject: [INDOLOGY] Sino-Indian Studies 5 (1956)
> To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk
> 
> Dear colleagues,
> 
> If any one has access to the following article, and a means of producing a scan, I shall be a grateful recipient:
> 
> Sarkar, Kalyan Kumar, 1956, "The earliest inscription of Indochina", Sino-Indian Studies, 5(2), p. 77-87. 
> 
> Thank you.
> 
> Arlo Griffiths
> EFEO/Jakarta
> <earliest_inscription.pdf>



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From palaniappa at AOL.COM  Wed Jun 27 12:21:40 2012
From: palaniappa at AOL.COM (Sudalaimuthu Palaniappan)
Date: Wed, 27 Jun 12 07:21:40 -0500
Subject: FW: [INDOLOGY] Sino-Indian Studies 5 (1956)
In-Reply-To: <E207CDE1-576C-4C6D-8BF1-74AC85798B78@aol.com>
Message-ID: <161227096648.23782.13303594071343659967.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Sorry, there was a typo in my earlier post. ?r? M?ra ?r?vallabha? should actually be ?r? M??a ?r?vallabha?.

Regards,
Palaniappan


On Jun 27, 2012, at 7:19 AM, Sudalaimuthu Palaniappan wrote:

> Dear Arlo,
> 
> On page 83 of the article, the name of the king is ?r? M?ra. Has not somebody already noted the connection between this name and the name M??a? of Tamil P???iya dynasty? (I am unable to recall the reference.) A P???iya king Mu?a-t-Tiru M??a? has authored two Classical Tamil poems. The Sanskrit form of Tiru M??a? will be ?r? M?ra. The name of a a later P???iya king was ?r? M?ra ?r?vallabha?. 
> 
> According to R. C. Majumdar (Study of Sanskrit in South-East Asia, p. 25), a Sanskrit inscription was discovered in a place called Vat Luong Kau dated to be of the second half of 5th century AD. "It begins with an invocation to Brahm?, Vi??u and ?iva and then refers to the great king (mahar?j?dhir?ja) ?rI Dev?n?ka and compares him with Yudhi??hira, Indra, DhanaJjaya, Indradyumna, ?ibi, Mah?puru?a, Kanakap???ya(?), the great Ocean and Meru."
> 
> Has the possible P???iya connection to Southeast Asia been explored by scholars after K. K. Sarkar?
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Regards,
> Palaniappan
> 
> 
>  
> 
> 
> On Jun 27, 2012, at 1:37 AM, Arlo Griffiths wrote:
> 
>> Thank you very much, Benjamin!
>> 
>> I forward the pdf file which may be of interest to some others on the list, and which is mercifully light-weight.
>> 
>> Best wishes,
>> 
>> Arlo
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> From: fleming_b4 at hotmail.com
>> To: arlogriffiths at hotmail.com
>> Subject: RE: [INDOLOGY] Sino-Indian Studies 5 (1956)
>> Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2012 17:00:46 -0400
>> 
>> Dear Arlo,
>> 
>> I am not sure if you received a copy of this article, but I ordered a copy and it just arrived.
>> 
>> Best,
>> Benjamin
>> 
>> -- 
>> 
>> Benjamin Fleming, 
>> Visiting Scholar, Dept. of Religious Studies; 
>> Cataloger, Sanskrit Manuscripts, Rare Book & Manuscript Library;
>> University of Pennsylvania 249 S. 36th Street, 
>> 201 Claudia Cohen Hall
>> Philadelphia, PA 19104 U.S.A. 
>> Telephone - 215-900-5744
>> http://www.sas.upenn.edu/~bfleming 
>> 
>> 
>> Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2012 14:46:23 +0000
>> From: arlogriffiths at HOTMAIL.COM
>> Subject: [INDOLOGY] Sino-Indian Studies 5 (1956)
>> To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk
>> 
>> Dear colleagues,
>> 
>> If any one has access to the following article, and a means of producing a scan, I shall be a grateful recipient:
>> 
>> Sarkar, Kalyan Kumar, 1956, "The earliest inscription of Indochina", Sino-Indian Studies, 5(2), p. 77-87. 
>> 
>> Thank you.
>> 
>> Arlo Griffiths
>> EFEO/Jakarta
>> <earliest_inscription.pdf>
> 



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From jkirk at SPRO.NET  Thu Jun 28 15:12:09 2012
From: jkirk at SPRO.NET (Jo)
Date: Thu, 28 Jun 12 09:12:09 -0600
Subject: Yoga rave, Argentina
Message-ID: <161227096651.23782.16948820840962339953.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

http://en.mercopress.com/2012/05/27/argentine-youth-takes-to-indian-culture-
from-sanskrit-songs-to-mediation-and-spiritualism 

 

They go with the flow.

 

Joanna Kirkpatrick



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From karp at UW.EDU.PL  Thu Jun 28 16:03:01 2012
From: karp at UW.EDU.PL (Artur Karp)
Date: Thu, 28 Jun 12 18:03:01 +0200
Subject: prenasalized stops in dhivehi
Message-ID: <161227096653.23782.3988877436745932381.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Dear List,

Could anyone, please, tell how the maldivian prenasalized stops (?g, ?j, ?d,
?b) should be written in the thana script?

Just as combination n + g, j, d; m + b? Or with some special diacritical
mark?

Thanks in advance,

Artur Karp

Senior Lecturer in Sanskrit and Pali (ret.)

South Asian Studies Deptt.
Oriental Faculty
University of Warsaw
Poland


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From arlogriffiths at HOTMAIL.COM  Fri Jun 29 07:43:30 2012
From: arlogriffiths at HOTMAIL.COM (Arlo Griffiths)
Date: Fri, 29 Jun 12 07:43:30 +0000
Subject: FW: [INDOLOGY] Sino-Indian Studies 5 (1956)
In-Reply-To: <4DF9866B-4BA8-4A6A-BD1D-5DAF18D1C8EC@aol.com>
Message-ID: <161227096656.23782.13874623764283735860.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>


Deat Palaniappan,

Yes, the idea of a P???iya connection of ?r? M?ra has been proposed by J. Filliozat. See his article in BEFEO 55 (1969).

http://www.persee.fr/web/revues/home/prescript/article/befeo_0336-1519_1969_num_55_1_4856

I believe there have been counterarguments but I don't now remember what they were and who has adduced them.

I don't know if the specific theme of P???iya connections with Southeast Asia has been explored exhaustively and in detail in recent decades, but occasional observations, e.g. inspired by the occurrence of a king called P?duka ?r? Mah?r?ja R?j?dhir?ja Parame?vara ?r? V?r?ka??agop?la ?r? Sundarap???yadev?dhi?vara Vikramottu?gadeva, in an East Javanese inscription of 1323 CE, are found in the works of various scholars.

Best wishes,

Arlo Griffiths
EFEO/Jakarta




Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2012 07:21:40 -0500
From: palaniappa at AOL.COM
Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] FW: [INDOLOGY] Sino-Indian Studies 5 (1956)
To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk

Sorry, there was a typo in my earlier post. ?r? M?ra ?r?vallabha? should actually be ?r? M??a ?r?vallabha?.
Regards,Palaniappan


On Jun 27, 2012, at 7:19 AM, Sudalaimuthu Palaniappan wrote:Dear Arlo,
On page 83 of the article, the name of the king is ?r? M?ra. Has not somebody already noted the connection between this name and the name M??a? of Tamil P???iya dynasty? (I am unable to recall the reference.) A P???iya king Mu?a-t-Tiru M??a? has authored two Classical Tamil poems. The Sanskrit form of Tiru M??a? will be ?r? M?ra. The name of a a later P???iya king was ?r? M?ra ?r?vallabha?. 













According to R. C.
Majumdar (Study of Sanskrit in South-East Asia, p. 25), a Sanskrit inscription
was discovered in a place called Vat Luong Kau dated to be of the second half
of 5th century AD. "It begins with an invocation to Brahm?, Vi??u and ?iva
and then refers to the great king (mahar?j?dhir?ja) ?rI Dev?n?ka and compares
him with Yudhi??hira, Indra, DhanaJjaya, Indradyumna, ?ibi, Mah?puru?a,
Kanakap???ya(?), the great Ocean and Meru."




Has the possible P???iya connection to Southeast Asia been explored by scholars after K. K. Sarkar?
Thanks
Regards,Palaniappan
 

On Jun 27, 2012, at 1:37 AM, Arlo Griffiths wrote:Thank you very much, Benjamin!

I forward the pdf file which may be of interest to some others on the list, and which is mercifully light-weight.

Best wishes,

Arlo



From: fleming_b4 at hotmail.com
To: arlogriffiths at hotmail.com
Subject: RE: [INDOLOGY] Sino-Indian Studies 5 (1956)
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2012 17:00:46 -0400

Dear Arlo,
I am not sure if you received a copy of this article, but I ordered a copy and it just arrived.
Best,Benjamin

-- 

Benjamin Fleming, Visiting Scholar, Dept. of Religious Studies; Cataloger, Sanskrit Manuscripts, Rare Book & Manuscript Library;University of Pennsylvania 249 S. 36th Street, 201 Claudia Cohen HallPhiladelphia, PA 19104 U.S.A. Telephone - 215-900-5744http://www.sas.upenn.edu/~bfleming 

Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2012 14:46:23 +0000
From: arlogriffiths at HOTMAIL.COM
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Sino-Indian Studies 5 (1956)
To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk

Dear colleagues,

If any one has access to the following article, and a means of producing a scan, I shall be a grateful recipient:

Sarkar, Kalyan Kumar, 1956, "The earliest inscription of Indochina", Sino-Indian Studies, 5(2), p. 77-87. 

Thank you.

Arlo Griffiths
EFEO/Jakarta
<earliest_inscription.pdf>

 		 	   		  


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From francois.voegeli at GMAIL.COM  Fri Jun 29 08:46:27 2012
From: francois.voegeli at GMAIL.COM (Francois Voegeli)
Date: Fri, 29 Jun 12 10:46:27 +0200
Subject: ma thesis
In-Reply-To: <CAEzwJrDcnB8f1syagoDvfSFwm_TCGDo7qfJ+FGw0ORee0Xu7RA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <161227096662.23782.15677906278087814141.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Dear Patrick, Dear Members of the list,

I would appreciate locating that reference too. During a recent fieldtrip to Nepal, we met in Devghat a very interesting member of this community. The chief of our expedition has been doing some fieldwork with the aghoris for some time, and this meeting will probably be mentioned in our report. 
The personality of this aghori very much impressed me, and I became interested in this community I heard of, but never met closely. Any information on them would then be welcomed.

I would also like to take this opportunity to thank all the people on this list who answered my question posted some time ago on p(a)uNDarIka (Mr/Dr/Prof. Eltschinger, Houben, Gengnagel, Salomon, Goldman). Actually, this question stemmed from a project I am pursuing in Lausanne, and which is starting to give some interesting results on the history of Vedic Ritual. I will post them on a website asap and advise the community. Thanks again.

F. Voegeli

 


> Dear List,
> 
> I would appreciate any help in locating a copy of this MA thesis.
> 
> Hovedside > Samfunnsvitenskapelige fakultet > Sosialantropologisk institutt > Sosialantropologi
> Forfatter:	Str?m, Herman
> Tittel:	Approaching the Aghori
> Undertittel:	spiritual transactions and social capital in a North-Indian religious community
> Publisert ?r:	2006
> Dokumenttype:	Masteroppgave
> Spr?k:	Engelsk
> BIBSYS:	BIBSYS
> Permanent lenke:	http://urn.nb.no/URN:NBN:no-12926
> 
> 
> 
> Here is the link 
> 
> -- 
> All the best,
> 
> Patrick McCartney  
> 
> PhD Candidate - Anthropology
> School of Culture, History & Language
> College of the Asia-Pacific
> Rm 4.30 Baldessin Precinct Building
> The Australian National University
> Canberra, Australia, 0200
> 
> skype - psdmccartney
> W- +61 2 6125 4323
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AfpCc8G_cUw&feature=related
> 

Dr Fran?ois Voegeli

Senior FNS Researcher
Institut d'Arch?ologie et des Sciences de l'Antiquit?
Anthropole, bureau 4018
Facult? des Lettres
Universit? de Lausanne
CH-1015 Lausanne



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From wc3 at SOAS.AC.UK  Fri Jun 29 17:08:43 2012
From: wc3 at SOAS.AC.UK (Whitney Cox)
Date: Fri, 29 Jun 12 12:08:43 -0500
Subject: Fwd: Senior Teaching Fellow in Sanskrit
Message-ID: <161227096672.23782.4014795658713921364.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Dear colleagues,

The Department of the Languages and Cultures of South Asia, SOAS,
University of London is now accepting applications for the following
position for 2012-13.  Please direct any enquiries to Dr. J. Watkins, at
the address given below,

Yours, with best wishes,

Whitney Cox

*___________

Senior Teaching Fellow in Sanskrit*



Department of the Languages and Cultures of South Asia

SOAS, University of London



*Closing date for applications: 18 July 2012*



*0.65 full-time equivalent*

*Fixed term 1-year contract*

*Grade 7 (?30,122) pro rata p.a. plus ?2,134 pro rata p.a. London Allowance*



The Department of the Languages and Cultures of South Asia seeks to appoint
a Senior Teaching Fellow in Sanskrit for the Academic Year 2012-13.  This
is a fractional position (approx 0.65 fraction of full-time) for a fixed
term of one year.



You will have expertise in Sanskrit Language and Literature and will be
responsible generally for SOAS? provision in Sanskrit for the academic year
12-13.  (Contract start-date ideally 1 September 2012).  Your main teaching
duties will be to convene, teach and assess three full-year courses (*Sanskrit
Language 1, Sanskrit Language 2, Sanskrit Literature* a combined total of
12 contact hours per week for 22 weeks).  In addition you will deliver a
total of 20 hours of lectures and tutorial classes relating to Sanskrit
within the UG course *South Asian Culture* and the PG course *Literatures
of South Asia*.  Additional duties will include associated preparation,
administration, examination/assessment, office hours, etc.



Further particulars (job description and person specification) can be
obtained from the Head of Department, Dr Justin Watkins (jw2 at soas.ac.uk),
to whom formal applicants should send:



- a *curriculum vitae*

- a 1-page personal statement detailing relevant experience/skills

- the name of one academic referee who can supply a reference by email
before the deadline.



*Eligibility:  this position is not eligible to meet the requirements for
assigning a Certificate of Sponsorship to obtain permission to work in the
UK.*






-- 


Dr. Whitney Cox
Senior Lecturer in Sanskrit
Department of the Languages and Cultures of South Asia,
SOAS, University of London
Thornhaugh Street, Russell Square
London WC1H 0XG


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From astridzotter at YAHOO.DE  Fri Jun 29 16:02:49 2012
From: astridzotter at YAHOO.DE (Astrid Zotter)
Date: Fri, 29 Jun 12 17:02:49 +0100
Subject: ma thesis / tantric texts on a              ghoras=?utf-8?Q?=C4=81dhan=C4=81?=
In-Reply-To: <42936E42-0059-43D7-8A5C-D7A0C7379C95@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <161227096668.23782.16642384686622071664.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Dear
Francois Voegeli, dear members of the list,
?
Colleagues have
forwarded your request to me and I allow myself to use the list access of my
wife for a reply and a related request of mine.
?
Unfortunately,
there is very little material available on Aghor?s in Nepal. I am only aware of
some scattered notions, e.g. Axel Michaels (?Der Hinduismus?, Munich: Beck,
1998) mentions the Aghor? ascetic Pagal?nanda who lived at the cremation ground
close to the Pa?upatin?th temple in Deopatan. For Northern India, though, the
situation is different:while in the
accounts of the colonial administration the Aghor?s are stereotypically depicted
as a public nuisance (cp. Balfour
1897, Barrow 1893, Crooke 1896, 1908), more recent research aimed at drawing a
more differentiated picture. (American) Social Anthropologists worked mainly in
Banaras on the tradition of B?b? K?n?r?m Aghor? and its social reforms under Avadh?t
Bhagv?n R?m (which ? at least from hearsay ? had an impact on some Nepalese
Aghor?s too). See e.g.
?
Jonathan P.
Parry. ??The Aghori Ascetics of Benares?
In: Burghard, R. et al. (ed.): Indian
Religion. London, 51-78, 1985.

Roxanne
Gupta. The Politics of Heterodoxy and the Kinarami Ascetics of Banaras (unpubl.
PhD diss., Syracuse University, 1993)
-?The K?n?
R?m?. Augha?s and Kings in the Age of Cultural Contact?. In: Lorenzen, David N.
(ed.) Bhakti Religion in Northern India.
Albany, 133-142.
Ron
Barrett. Aghor Medicine. Pollution,
Death, and Healing in Northern India. Berkeley, 2008. 
?
The works mentioned
focus on different aspects of the Aghor tradition in its modern social context
and contain only little information about the history of the movement or its
literature. Both still deserve to be properly studied. Some more details on K?n?r?m
(and other Aghor? or Augha? of his or of related traditions) and his literary
work can be gathered from Indian publications, for example, Dharmendra
Brahmac?r? ??str?s Santmat k? Sarbha?g-Samprad?y (Pa?n?, 1953). Last but not least, over the last
decades the K?n?r?m?s themselves have been publishing many pamphlets and books
about their tradition. 
?
In case you
read German, I could send you my unpublished MA paper ?Die Domestizierung der
Aghor?s: K?n?r?m und G?t?val?? (Univ. Leipzig, 2004), which deals with the
historical background of the Aghor?s and the hagiographical accounts on K?n?r?m
and contains a tentative translation of the G?t?val?, one of the collections of
poems said to be composed by K?n?r?m.
?
Since I recently
started working on a paper about aghor ritual (or, more precisely, on ?ritual denial? taking the K?n?r?m? as an
example), may I add a question to the list members on my own behalf? To my
knowledge, not much has been done on the tantric texts related to aghoras?dhan?, which is only rarely
referred to by the K?n?r?m?s themselves (an exception is R?mdul?r Si?ha et al.
(ed.): Aghora granth?vali?. Collected Works of Aghora Manuscripts.
Varanasi, 1986). As I did not touch the topic
for several years I might not be up to date. So if someone could provide
further information on the tantric tradition on aghora I would be very thankful.
?
Best
regards
?
Christof
Zotter
?
zotter at sai.uni-heidelberg.de
?
Research Fellow
Collaborative Research Centre 619 Ritual Dynamics
Heidelberg University
South Asia Institute
Department of Cultural and Religious History of South Asia (Classical Indology
Im
 Neuenheimer Feld 330
D-69120 Heidelberg


Von: Francois Voegeli <francois.voegeli at GMAIL.COM>

An: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk 
Gesendet: 10:46 Freitag, 29.Juni 2012
Betreff: Re: [INDOLOGY] ma thesis
 

Dear Patrick, Dear Members of the list,
I would appreciate locating that reference too. During a recent fieldtrip to Nepal, we met in Devghat a very interesting member of this community. The chief of our expedition has been doing some fieldwork with the aghoris for some time, and this meeting will probably be mentioned in our report.?
The personality of this aghori very much impressed me, and I became interested in this community I heard of, but never met closely. Any information on them would then be welcomed.

I would also like to take this opportunity to thank all the people on this list who answered my question posted some time ago on p(a)uNDarIka (Mr/Dr/Prof. Eltschinger, Houben, Gengnagel, Salomon, Goldman). Actually, this question stemmed from a project I am pursuing in Lausanne, and which is starting to give some interesting results on the history of Vedic Ritual. I will post them on a website asap and advise the community. Thanks again.

F. Voegeli

?




Dear List,
>
>
>I would appreciate any help in locating a copy of this MA thesis.
>
>
>Hovedside?>?Samfunnsvitenskapelige fakultet?>?Sosialantropologisk institutt?>?Sosialantropologi 
>Forfatter: Str?m, Herman 
>Tittel: Approaching the Aghori 
>Undertittel: spiritual transactions and social capital in a North-Indian religious community 
>Publisert ?r: 2006 
>Dokumenttype: Masteroppgave 
>Spr?k: Engelsk 
>BIBSYS: BIBSYS 
>Permanent lenke: http://urn.nb.no/URN:NBN:no-12926 
>
>
>Here is the link? 
>
>-- 
>All the best,
>
>Patrick McCartney? 
>
>
>PhD Candidate -?Anthropology
>School of Culture, History & Language
>College of the Asia-Pacific
>
>Rm 4.30 Baldessin Precinct Building
>The Australian National University
>Canberra,?Australia, 0200
>
>skype - psdmccartney
>W- +61 2 6125 4323
>
>
>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AfpCc8G_cUw&feature=related
>
>

Dr Fran?ois Voegeli

Senior FNS Researcher
Institut d'Arch?ologie et des Sciences de?l'Antiquit?
Anthropole, bureau 4018
Facult? des Lettres
Universit? de Lausanne
CH-1015 Lausanne 


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From psdmccartney at GMAIL.COM  Fri Jun 29 08:17:31 2012
From: psdmccartney at GMAIL.COM (patrick mccartney)
Date: Fri, 29 Jun 12 17:47:31 +0930
Subject: ma thesis
Message-ID: <161227096659.23782.576682884528454698.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Dear List,

I would appreciate any help in locating a copy of this MA thesis.

Hovedside <http://www.duo.uio.no/> > Samfunnsvitenskapelige
fakultet<http://www.duo.uio.no/sok/search.html?ORGID=138>
 > Sosialantropologisk
institutt<http://www.duo.uio.no/sok/search.html?ORGID=165>
 > Sosialantropologi <http://www.duo.uio.no/sok/search.html?ORGID=166>
Forfatter:Str?m, HermanTittel:Approaching the AghoriUndertittel:spiritual
transactions and social capital in a North-Indian religious community Publisert
?r:2006Dokumenttype:MasteroppgaveSpr?k:EngelskBIBSYS:BIBSYS<http://ask.bibsys.no/ask/action/show?pid=061298670&kid=biblio>
Permanent
lenke:http://urn.nb.no/URN:NBN:no-12926


Here is the link <http://www.duo.uio.no/sok/work.html?WORKID=43471>

-- 
All the best,

Patrick McCartney

PhD Candidate - Anthropology
School of Culture, History & Language
College of the Asia-Pacific
Rm 4.30 Baldessin Precinct Building
The Australian National University
Canberra, Australia, 0200

skype - psdmccartney
W- +61 2 6125 4323

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AfpCc8G_cUw&feature=related


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From dbhattacharya200498 at YAHOO.COM  Fri Jun 29 13:34:23 2012
From: dbhattacharya200498 at YAHOO.COM (Dipak Bhattacharya)
Date: Fri, 29 Jun 12 21:34:23 +0800
Subject: Harappan script
In-Reply-To: <D3B99AE2-F5C4-4377-97B2-1A448E80B67E@safarmer.com>
Message-ID: <161227096664.23782.18413339206582526967.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Dear List,
One may object to acrimony but not to discussion.. Specific persons, if any, intending not to keep the decorum can be faulted but urging to stop a scientific discussion is anti-science. We should not be prevented from knowing the views of Harry Falk who did not take part in the debate earlier
Best 

DB


________________________________
? From: Steve Farmer <saf at SAFARMER.COM>
To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk 
Sent: Wednesday, 20 June 2012 1:29 AM
Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] Harappan script
 
A citation of one person's opinion cited ex cathedra ("the arguments brought forward by Farmer, Sproat, & Witzel... are not convincing") is supposed to be taken seriously as a scientific argument? 

Citations from linguists on the other side supporting us can be given just as easily, which doesn't prove anything either. 

Science isn't a matter of auctoritas.

> The issue is apparently not yet settled.

Which is why I suggested we forgo another acrimonious open-ended discussion that repeats the same views constantly without any attempt to bring things to a resolution.

Many of the key arguments that we forwarded in our 2004 paper, found here

http://www.safarmer.com/fsw2.pdf

aren't even accurately summarized in the literature, let alone seriously discussed. It is the kind of paper, like so many others these days when information is bombarded at us so fast, that are downloaded (many hundreds of thousands of times since 2004, probably more than any other paper in the field) and talked about far more than read. 

The most recent odd comment about the so-called Indus script controversy is by Meadows and Kenoyer, in an essay included in Vol. 3 of the Corpus, who now leave it all in limbo and argue that it doesn't *matter* whether it was a script or not. 

Reference and discussion here:

http://www.safarmer.com/IndusValleyFantasies.pdf

With all due respect to my friend Richard Meadow, it matters a lot -- for reasons discussed in that long abstract. :^)

Please note that Asko's position on the "script" has radically changed as well due to our paper, as he generously acknowledged at the last Indus conference we attended together in Kyoto in 2009 (Parpola's "script" by then had turned into a "proto-script," which is a big change rom the views Asko had consistently put forward since the the 1960s; but note that we anticipated this argument too in our 2004 paper on pp. 33 ff.)

So true, things aren't "settled," or opinions at least aren't settled, on the issue. As I've long argued, what is needed now is a _Current Anthropology_ style discussion that forces all sides to respond point-by-point, in an iterative way, to the arguments rather than turning this into another shouting matching authorities against counter-authorities. 

We do plan that (a _Current Anthropology_ style article) for the next year, if we can as we hope free up the time.

'm convinced that the issue *can* be definitively settled this way. We have tried the other ways (e.g. the Conference funded in part by the National Science Foundation and the American Linguistic Society that Richard Sproat and I organized at Stanford in 2007, etc.) without luck, since we couldn't get Asko at the time to agree to the point-by-point discussion we proposed.

But the issue still *does* need to be settled, for many reasons, and I'm convinced it will happen at least in the next few years, via the _Current Anthropology_-type format.

Regards,
Steve Farmer

On Jun 19, 2012, at 3:11 PM, George Thompson wrote:

> Dear List,
> 
> I too have grown weary of this debate, but some list members may not
> be aware of this article by Harry Falk:
> 
> "Foreign Terms Pertaining to Writing in Sanskrit"
> 
> which has appeared in a collection:
> 
> *The Idea of Writing: Play and Complexity*, ed. by Alexander J. de
> Voogt, Irving L. Finkel, [Brill 2010].
> 
> In this article, Harry asserts, in his first footnote, that "the
> arguments brought forward by Farmer, Sproat, & Witzel (2004) against
> the nature of the Harappan signs as 'script' are not convincing,
> individually or as a whole.? I concur? with the counter-arguments
> amassed by Parpola [2008]."
> 
> Parpola 2008:
> 
> "Is the Indus script indeed not a writing system?"? in Airaavati:
> Felicitation Volume in Honour of Iravatham Mahadevan (pp. 111-131).
> Chennai (Varallaru.com).
> 
> The issue is apparently not yet settled.
> 
> Best wishes,
> 
> George Thompson
> 
> On Tue, Jun 19, 2012 at 1:57 PM, Steve Farmer <saf at safarmer.com> wrote:
>> Alakendu Das writes:
>> 
>>> If anybody may throw light by way of referring any opinion/journals/books on deciphering of Harrappan Script pertaining to the Indus Valley civilisation.
>> 
>> 
>> On this acrimonious issue opinion/journal/books flow in endless streams, as they have for the past 135 years or so. :^)
>> 
>> Can I suggest that another open-ended discussion about "deciphering" symbols whose linguistic status is itself disputed is hardly appropriate on the List?? It is torturous to have to revisit the same territory repeatedly.
>> 
>> I suggest that those interested go to the List archives here
>> 
>> http://listserv.liv.ac.uk/cgi-bin/wa?S1=indology
>> 
>> and type in the words (no quotes) "Indus script".
>> 
>> Then add in the Since Box (again no quotes) "2011".
>> 
>> That will take you to the last of many List discussions on the topic, involving summaries of the conflicting views of Asko Parpola, me and my colleagues, and others -- all based on already published and readily available papers.
>> 
>> If you want older discussions -- often reiterating the same arguments -- expand on the date range in the search fields to 1999 or so. You will find further opinions, etc., in abundance.
>> 
>> Warm regards,
>> Steve Farmer
>> 
>> On Jun 19, 2012, at 12:05 PM, alakendu das wrote:
>> 
>>> To all,
>>> If anybody may throw light by way of referring any opinion/journals/books on deciphering of Harrappan Script pertaining to the Indus Valley civilisation.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Alakendu Das,
>>> Post-Graduate,Indology.
>>> mailme
> 


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From soni at STAFF.UNI-MARBURG.DE  Sat Jun 30 21:00:33 2012
From: soni at STAFF.UNI-MARBURG.DE (Jayandra Soni)
Date: Sat, 30 Jun 12 23:00:33 +0200
Subject: Viduu, Vidyudduutah, the E-Messenger 2
Message-ID: <161227096678.23782.14393964414841935099.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Once again it is my pleasure to flash the second issue, with many thanks
to the contributors Ram Karan Sharmajii, Juergen Hannederjii and Robert
Goldmanjii.

Hope you enjoy it again in between your tight schedule during a break with
a cup of tea or coffee.

Members of the IASS have already received this, so apologies for dual  
and plural postings.

With best wishes,
Jay

------------------------------
Jayandra Soni, Ph.Dd. (BHU and McMaster)
Formerly: Lecturer Department of Indology and Tibetology,  
Philipps-Universitaet Marburg, Germany (from October 1991 till  
retirement at the end of April 2012).

Address as of May 2012: Poltenweg 4, A-6080 Vill/Innsbruck, Austria.
Email: soni at staff.uni-marburg.de
Telephone: +43-512-933627

http://www.uni-marburg.de/fb10/iksl/indologie/fachgebiet/mitarbeiter/soni

Secretary General, International Association of Sanskrit Studies
Elected January 2012 in Delhi
http://www.sanskrit.nic.in/IASS/HOME_page.htm
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