From athr at LOC.GOV Fri Sep 2 14:43:58 2011 From: athr at LOC.GOV (Thrasher, Allen) Date: Fri, 02 Sep 11 10:43:58 -0400 Subject: A coffee break conference In-Reply-To: <08871709-A06D-45AA-955E-E765546AB94E@gmail.com> Message-ID: <161227093722.23782.5223889093996780124.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> " The present project is the result of a larger re?ection on the common sensical statement that the most interesting parts of a conference are the co?ee breaks. One yawns or falls asleep while most papers are read ?apart from a couple of them and one?s own one." Sounds like an excellent idea. Ananda Coomaraswamy when attending lectures would compose himself very comfortably and shut his eyes, to go to sleep if the talk weren't interesting. He felt it was the speaker's duty to keep the audience interested and awake. But I must say it sounds a little inconsiderate, unless one were part of a big audience and not noticeable. I have sleep problems and sometimes if I know the speaker go up to explain and apologize in advance. (Present company is hereby notified.) Allen Allen W. Thrasher, Ph.D. Senior Reference Librarian and Team Coordinator South Asia Team Asian Division Library of Congress 101 Independence Ave., S.W. Washington, DC 20540-4810 USA tel. 202-707-3732 fax 202-707-1724 The opinions expressed do not necessarily reflect those of the Library of Congress. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From hegartyjm at GOOGLEMAIL.COM Fri Sep 2 13:49:54 2011 From: hegartyjm at GOOGLEMAIL.COM (James Hegarty) Date: Fri, 02 Sep 11 14:49:54 +0100 Subject: Publication Announcement Message-ID: <161227093714.23782.15805123313621294163.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Dear Colleagues, I am pleased to announce the publication of my monograph: Religion, Narrative and Public Imagination in South Asia: Past and Place in the Sanskrit Mah?bh?rata London: Routledge, 2012. ISBN:978-0-415-55863-1 (hbk) ISBN: 978-0-203-850512-1 (ebk) This book takes up the origin, form, content and impact of the Sanskrit Mah?bh?rata in early South Asia (by exploring the Sanskrit text as well as first millennium epigraphy and wider literature). It also includes, as an epilogue, a study of the Hindi televisual Mah?bh?rat. I hope those who are interested enjoy it! With All Best Wishes, James Hegarty -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From hegartyjm at GOOGLEMAIL.COM Fri Sep 2 14:11:13 2011 From: hegartyjm at GOOGLEMAIL.COM (James Hegarty) Date: Fri, 02 Sep 11 15:11:13 +0100 Subject: Publication Announcement In-Reply-To: <93C7FD36-5D0D-41B3-97F8-38644CE3C23D@uchicago.edu> Message-ID: <161227093718.23782.7569689774406674059.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Dear Christian (If I may), Don't ask me why it is dated 2012! Best Wishes, James Hegarty On 2 Sep 2011, at 15:08, Christian Konrad Wedemeyer wrote: > Wonderful! Thanks for letting us know. I look forward to reading it > at the earliest. > > Is it 2012 already?! ;-) > > > On Sep 2, 2011, at 8:49 AM, James Hegarty wrote: > >> Dear Colleagues, >> >> I am pleased to announce the publication of my monograph: >> >> Religion, Narrative and Public Imagination in South Asia: Past and >> Place in the Sanskrit Mah?bh?rata >> >> London: Routledge, 2012. >> >> ISBN:978-0-415-55863-1 (hbk) >> ISBN: 978-0-203-850512-1 (ebk) >> >> This book takes up the origin, form, content and impact of the >> Sanskrit Mah?bh?rata in early South Asia (by exploring the >> Sanskrit text as well as first millennium epigraphy and wider >> literature). It also includes, as an epilogue, a study of the Hindi >> televisual Mah?bh?rat. >> >> I hope those who are interested enjoy it! >> >> With All Best Wishes, >> >> James Hegarty > > -- > Christian K. Wedemeyer > Associate Professor of the History of Religions > Area Chair, History of Religions > University of Chicago Divinity School > 1025 E 58th Street > Chicago, IL 60637 > P Please consider the environment before printing this e-mail. > This email is intended only for the use of the individual or entity > to which it is addressed and may contain information that is > privileged and confidential. If the reader of this email message is > not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any > dissemination, distribution, or copying of this communication is > prohibited. If you have received this email in error, please notify > the sender and destroy/delete all copies of the transmittal. Thank > you. > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From elisa.freschi at GMAIL.COM Fri Sep 2 13:35:48 2011 From: elisa.freschi at GMAIL.COM (elisa freschi) Date: Fri, 02 Sep 11 15:35:48 +0200 Subject: A coffee break conference In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227093709.23782.15245761983078510244.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Dear colleagues, everyone passing through Italy is invited to the second "coffee break conference" on Classical and Contemporary South Asian to be held in Rome, Sapienza University, next week (8th to 10th September). For further info, check the website: http://asiatica.wikispaces.com For what "coffee break conference" means, please see below: The present project is the result of a larger re?ection on the common sensical statement that the most interesting parts of a conference are the co?ee breaks. One yawns or falls asleep while most papers are read ?apart from a couple of them and one?s own one. On the other hand, one often takes part of challenging and fascinating debates while sipping at one?s cup of co?ee. Often, the same paper sounds thought-provoking and insightful during the break, and extremely boring while it is actually read. This leaves space enough for the proposal of a co?ee break- conference, that is, a conference which leaves behind the more sti? formulations of established and untouchables conclusions, and favours an open-minded exchange of ideas, suggestions, criticisms. In a nutshell, we hope to have less read papers and more discussions. The organizers (matilde adduci, cristina bignami, paola cagna, giovanni ciotti, daniele cuneo, marco ferrante, camillo formigatti, elisa freschi, elisa ganser, artemij keidan, elena mucciarelli, mark schneider) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: incontridottorato2011.pdf Type: application/pdf Size: 44912 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From athr at LOC.GOV Fri Sep 2 20:24:38 2011 From: athr at LOC.GOV (Thrasher, Allen) Date: Fri, 02 Sep 11 16:24:38 -0400 Subject: A coffee break conference In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227093729.23782.1470850827679635131.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Dominik, The quote ("The present project?.one's own one.") was from Elisa Freschi's kind invitation in the first message on this thread, "to the second "coffee break conference" on Classical and Contemporary South Asian to be held in Rome, Sapienza University, next week (8th to 10th September)." The rest, ("Sounds like?hereby notified") was my little bagatelle of a comment. Allen From: Dominik Wujastyk [mailto:wujastyk at gmail.com] Sent: Friday, September 02, 2011 3:51 PM To: Thrasher, Allen Cc: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] A coffee break conference ... um, cough, sorry, Allen, I missed that. What did you say? Dominik :-) On 2 September 2011 16:43, Thrasher, Allen > wrote: " The present project is the result of a larger re?ection on the common sensical statement that the most interesting parts of a conference are the co?ee breaks. One yawns or falls asleep while most papers are read ?apart from a couple of them and one?s own one." Sounds like an excellent idea. Ananda Coomaraswamy when attending lectures would compose himself very comfortably and shut his eyes, to go to sleep if the talk weren't interesting. He felt it was the speaker's duty to keep the audience interested and awake. But I must say it sounds a little inconsiderate, unless one were part of a big audience and not noticeable. I have sleep problems and sometimes if I know the speaker go up to explain and apologize in advance. (Present company is hereby notified.) Allen Allen W. Thrasher, Ph.D. Senior Reference Librarian and Team Coordinator South Asia Team Asian Division Library of Congress 101 Independence Ave., S.W. Washington, DC 20540-4810 USA tel. 202-707-3732 fax 202-707-1724 The opinions expressed do not necessarily reflect those of the Library of Congress. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From wujastyk at GMAIL.COM Fri Sep 2 19:50:32 2011 From: wujastyk at GMAIL.COM (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Fri, 02 Sep 11 21:50:32 +0200 Subject: A coffee break conference In-Reply-To: <1D525027B29706438707F336D75A279F1AB8DE14EB@LCXCLMB03.LCDS.LOC.GOV> Message-ID: <161227093725.23782.15875768815576797597.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> ... um, cough, sorry, Allen, I missed that. What did you say? Dominik :-) On 2 September 2011 16:43, Thrasher, Allen wrote: > " The present project is the result of a larger re?ection on the common > sensical statement that the most interesting parts of a conference are the > co?ee breaks. One yawns or falls asleep while most papers are read ?apart > from a couple of them and one?s own one."**** > > ** ** > > Sounds like an excellent idea. Ananda Coomaraswamy when attending lectures > would compose himself very comfortably and shut his eyes, to go to sleep if > the talk weren't interesting. He felt it was the speaker's duty to keep the > audience interested and awake.**** > > ** ** > > But I must say it sounds a little inconsiderate, unless one were part of a > big audience and not noticeable. I have sleep problems and sometimes if I > know the speaker go up to explain and apologize in advance. (Present > company is hereby notified.)**** > > ** ** > > Allen**** > > ** ** > > ** ** > > Allen W. Thrasher, Ph.D.**** > > Senior Reference Librarian and Team Coordinator**** > > South Asia Team**** > > Asian Division**** > > Library of Congress**** > > 101 Independence Ave., S.W.**** > > Washington, DC 20540-4810**** > > USA**** > > tel. 202-707-3732**** > > fax 202-707-1724**** > > The opinions expressed do not necessarily reflect those of the Library of > Congress.**** > > ** ** > > ** ** > > ** ** > > ** ** > > ** ** > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From hwtull at MSN.COM Sat Sep 3 05:25:48 2011 From: hwtull at MSN.COM (Herman Tull) Date: Sat, 03 Sep 11 01:25:48 -0400 Subject: Sanskrit tatoo fail In-Reply-To: <7690eec5b8501.4e621348@anu.edu.au> Message-ID: <161227093736.23782.3515005196941531041.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> McComas, et al: This tattoo belongs to Katie Perry (a pop singer), and matches the tattoo on her husband, the actor/comedian Russell Brand. One of my students pointed out this tattoo to me a few years ago, and I too looked at the ?pravaaha? and thought the artist forgot to decline the noun. A better image, however shows that it is not pravaaha, but ?pravaaham??the tattoo artist used (improperly) the anusvara to indicate the final of the accusative. The grammar is still creaky: ?One must go to the river???? http://stealherstyle.net/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/sanskrit2.jpg cheers, Herman Tull Princeton, NJ From: McComas Taylor Sent: Friday, September 02, 2011 9:45 PM To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Subject: [INDOLOGY] Sanskrit tatoo fail Colleagues - I thought this might amuse you. My sharp-eyed daughter spotted this tatoo and asked me what is meant: https://alliance.anu.edu.au/access/content/user/u3936301/sanskrit_tatoo_fail.JPG I looked at anugacchatu prav?ha, and came up with the nonsensical 'let he/she/it follow' + 'O current' On being informed, my daughter, with Gen-Y insight, immediately said, 'O right - she probably meant "Go with the flow".' Such are the dangers of D-I-Y Sanskrit translations. -- McComas Taylor Head, South Asia Program ANU College of Asia and the Pacific Tel: +61 2 6125 3179 Location: Baldessin Precinct Building, 4.24 Website: http://arktos.anu.edu.au/chill/index.php/mct -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Learn about my courses: Sanskrit 1 | Indian Epics -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From wujastyk at GMAIL.COM Sat Sep 3 07:22:04 2011 From: wujastyk at GMAIL.COM (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Sat, 03 Sep 11 09:22:04 +0200 Subject: Sanskrit tatoo fail In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227093740.23782.7098752213920698179.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> See, Sanskrit is important and useful. Like Herman - I waded through Katie and Russell's Sanskrit antics when it was in the news a little ago, complete with blow-up graphics to spot that pesky anusv?ra. What interests me most about all this is that they don't want to know something from the Sanskrit tradition. They already know what it is they wish to express, namely "go with the flow." It's a bit inane, but it's not a bad sentiment, after all. But they want it in expressed Sanskrit. Is it that putting it in Sanskrit gives it some charm, or even authority, that it wouldn't otherwise have? Or do they want, rather, to suggest that "go with the flow" (henceforth GWTF) is really a Sanskrit saying? Or that if Sanskrit is the Language of Truth, then something true (?) must have been said in Sanskrit, somewhere. All this reminds me of the wonderful and charming stories of F. W. Bain, which are what Indian fairy stories *should* be. Bain said he found them in a Sanskrit manuscript, in Pune, if I remember rightly, though he actually made them all up himself. They were better than the truth, but still had to be projected onto Sanskrit literature to gain authority and recognition. Dominik On 3 September 2011 07:25, Herman Tull wrote: > McComas, et al: > > This tattoo belongs to Katie Perry (a pop singer), and matches the tattoo > on her husband, the actor/comedian Russell Brand. One of my students > pointed out this tattoo to me a few years ago, and I too looked at the > ?pravaaha? and thought the artist forgot to decline the noun. A better > image, however shows that it is not pravaaha, but ?pravaaham??the tattoo > artist used (improperly) the anusvara to indicate the final of the > accusative. The grammar is still creaky: ?One must go to the river???? > > http://stealherstyle.net/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/sanskrit2.jpg > > cheers, > > Herman Tull > Princeton, NJ > > *From:* McComas Taylor > *Sent:* Friday, September 02, 2011 9:45 PM > *To:* INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk > *Subject:* [INDOLOGY] Sanskrit tatoo fail > > Colleagues - I thought this might amuse you. > > My sharp-eyed daughter spotted this tatoo and asked me what is meant: > > > https://alliance.anu.edu.au/access/content/user/u3936301/sanskrit_tatoo_fail.JPG > > I looked at anugacchatu prav?ha, and came up with the nonsensical 'let > he/she/it follow' + 'O current' > > On being informed, my daughter, with Gen-Y insight, immediately said, 'O > right - she probably meant "Go with the flow".' > > Such are the dangers of D-I-Y Sanskrit translations. > > -- > McComas Taylor > Head, South Asia Program > ANU College of Asia and the Pacific > Tel: +61 2 6125 3179 > Location: Baldessin Precinct Building, 4.24 > Website: http://arktos.anu.edu.au/chill/index.php/mct > ------------------------------ > Learn about my courses: Sanskrit 1 | Indian > Epics > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From karp at UW.EDU.PL Sat Sep 3 08:21:29 2011 From: karp at UW.EDU.PL (Artur Karp) Date: Sat, 03 Sep 11 10:21:29 +0200 Subject: Sanskrit tatoo fail In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227093743.23782.3542643768789526760.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Following the latest fashion a Polish pop-star, known as Doda, had her left forearm tattooed with avinAzitA. The lettering is a bit clumsy, but, obviously, Sanskrit is Sanskrit. And it's trendy. http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_e_0DHUL54k8/R0Ml--rW75I/AAAAAAAAAG8/of3p0KBS-88/s320/Doda+nowy+tatua%C5%BC.jpg Artur From McComas.Taylor at ANU.EDU.AU Sat Sep 3 01:45:12 2011 From: McComas.Taylor at ANU.EDU.AU (McComas Taylor) Date: Sat, 03 Sep 11 11:45:12 +1000 Subject: Sanskrit tatoo fail Message-ID: <161227093732.23782.12804257039902983854.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Colleagues - I thought this might amuse you. My sharp-eyed daughter spotted this tatoo and asked me what is meant: https://alliance.anu.edu.au/access/content/user/u3936301/sanskrit_tatoo_fail.JPG I looked at? anugacchatu prav?ha, and came up with the nonsensical 'let he/she/it follow' + 'O current' On being informed, my daughter, with Gen-Y insight, immediately said, 'O right - she probably meant "Go with the flow".' Such are the dangers of D-I-Y Sanskrit translations. -- McComas Taylor Head, South Asia Program ANU College of Asia and the Pacific Tel: +61 2 6125 3179 Location: Baldessin Precinct Building, 4.24 Website: http://arktos.anu.edu.au/chill/index.php/mctLearn about my courses:? Sanskrit 1(http://www.screenr.com/NSBs)? |? Indian Epics(http://screenr.com/uUBs) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From palaniappa at AOL.COM Sat Sep 3 17:22:32 2011 From: palaniappa at AOL.COM (Sudalaimuthu Palaniappan) Date: Sat, 03 Sep 11 13:22:32 -0400 Subject: Article by Kesavan Veluthat Message-ID: <161227093754.23782.7234618979860199392.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Dear Indologists, I need the article, "The Socio-Political Implications of Kula??khara ??v?r's Bhakti," published in the Proceedings of the Indian History Congress, Bhubaneshwar, 1977. I would really appreciate if anyone with access to the article can email me a copy. Thanks in advance. Regards Palaniappan -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From hwtull at MSN.COM Sat Sep 3 14:25:02 2011 From: hwtull at MSN.COM (Herman Tull) Date: Sat, 03 Sep 11 14:25:02 +0000 Subject: Sanskrit tatoo fail Message-ID: <161227093750.23782.6716734274554150037.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Yes. Of course. Reading it late at night I ignored the prefix on the root. The widely reported translation is "go with the flow.". Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry -----Original Message----- From: Robert Zydenbos Date: Sat, 3 Sep 2011 13:54:38 To: Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] Sanskrit tatoo fail On 03.09.11 07:25, Herman Tull wrote: > [...]? A better image, however shows that it is not pravaaha, but > "pravaaham"-the tattoo artist used (improperly) the anusvara to > indicate the final of the accusative.? The grammar is still creaky: > "One must go to the river"??? The grammar is all right, since anu-gam "to follow" is construed with the accusative (cf. Boehtlingk and Roth's dictionary for examples): thus anugacchatu pravaha? translates as "let one follow the flow" (though I think "pravahamanugaccha" comes closer to GWTF). On 03.09.11 09:22, Dominik Wujastyk wrote: > See, Sanskrit is important and useful. Tathastu. > What interests me most about all this is that they don't want to know > something from the Sanskrit tradition. [...] > > Is it that putting it in Sanskrit gives it some charm, or even > authority, that it wouldn't otherwise have?? Or do they want, rather, > to suggest that "go with the flow" (henceforth GWTF) is really a > Sanskrit saying?? Or that if Sanskrit is the Language of Truth, then > something true (?) must have been said in Sanskrit, somewhere. That seems to be what many of my students expect. They come to class expecting to learn more about 'what is good', and if don't tell them what is 'good' according to their wishful thinking, then I must be 'wrong'. (Fortunately they sometimes explicitly say so, which leads to amusing discussions and gives me the opportunity to set things straight and to be a greater guru than their gurus.) In any case, Sanskrit is cool. My wife actually made a little bit of money through a tattoo: a fellow wanted to have some rather un-Sanskritic phrase tattooed on his arm, and he asked her to translate the phrase and give the translation in "Sanskrit script" (sic). She wrote back that she would do it only for a fee since, after all, she had spent a good deal of time learning the language and wanted to see her skill rewarded. He was decent and paid. RZ -- Prof. Dr. Robert J. Zydenbos Department fuer Asienstudien - Institut fuer Indologie und Tibetologie Ludwig-Maximilians-Universitaet Muenchen Tel. (+49-89-) 2180-5782 Fax? (+49-89-) 2180-5827 http://www.lrz-muenchen.de/~zydenbos Deutschland From zydenbos at UNI-MUENCHEN.DE Sat Sep 3 13:54:38 2011 From: zydenbos at UNI-MUENCHEN.DE (Robert Zydenbos) Date: Sat, 03 Sep 11 15:54:38 +0200 Subject: Sanskrit tatoo fail In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227093747.23782.16910825340560560677.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> On 03.09.11 07:25, Herman Tull wrote: > [...] A better image, however shows that it is not pravaaha, but > ?pravaaham??the tattoo artist used (improperly) the anusvara to > indicate the final of the accusative. The grammar is still creaky: > ?One must go to the river???? The grammar is all right, since anu-gam "to follow" is construed with the accusative (cf. Boehtlingk and Roth's dictionary for examples): thus anugacchatu prav?ha? translates as "let one follow the flow" (though I think "prav?hamanugaccha" comes closer to GWTF). On 03.09.11 09:22, Dominik Wujastyk wrote: > See, Sanskrit is important and useful. Tath?stu. > What interests me most about all this is that they don't want to know > something from the Sanskrit tradition. [...] > > Is it that putting it in Sanskrit gives it some charm, or even > authority, that it wouldn't otherwise have? Or do they want, rather, > to suggest that "go with the flow" (henceforth GWTF) is really a > Sanskrit saying? Or that if Sanskrit is the Language of Truth, then > something true (?) must have been said in Sanskrit, somewhere. That seems to be what many of my students expect. They come to class expecting to learn more about 'what is good', and if don't tell them what is 'good' according to their wishful thinking, then I must be 'wrong'. (Fortunately they sometimes explicitly say so, which leads to amusing discussions and gives me the opportunity to set things straight and to be a greater guru than their gurus.) In any case, Sanskrit is cool. My wife actually made a little bit of money through a tattoo: a fellow wanted to have some rather un-Sanskritic phrase tattooed on his arm, and he asked her to translate the phrase and give the translation in "Sanskrit script" (sic). She wrote back that she would do it only for a fee since, after all, she had spent a good deal of time learning the language and wanted to see her skill rewarded. He was decent and paid. RZ -- Prof. Dr. Robert J. Zydenbos Department fuer Asienstudien - Institut fuer Indologie und Tibetologie Ludwig-Maximilians-Universitaet Muenchen Tel. (+49-89-) 2180-5782 Fax (+49-89-) 2180-5827 http://www.lrz-muenchen.de/~zydenbos Deutschland From glhart at BERKELEY.EDU Sat Sep 3 23:06:55 2011 From: glhart at BERKELEY.EDU (George Hart) Date: Sat, 03 Sep 11 16:06:55 -0700 Subject: Sanskrit tatoo fail In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227093757.23782.12561567352955969740.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> There's already an Indian proverb for "go with the flow." A Malayali friend used it yesterday. They translated, "If your cows go where you don't want them to, just keep hitting them and go where they go anyway." I don't know the Malayalam -- people speak the language too fast to catch the words, though I did hear a?iccu. In any event, if anyone wants to use this (as a tattoo or slogan), I'll ask and get back with the original. George Hart On Sep 3, 2011, at 7:25 AM, Herman Tull wrote: > Yes. Of course. Reading it late at night I ignored the prefix on the root. The widely reported translation is "go with the flow.". > Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry > > -----Original Message----- > From: Robert Zydenbos > Date: Sat, 3 Sep 2011 13:54:38 > To: > Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] Sanskrit tatoo fail > > On 03.09.11 07:25, Herman Tull wrote: > >> [...] A better image, however shows that it is not pravaaha, but >> "pravaaham"-the tattoo artist used (improperly) the anusvara to >> indicate the final of the accusative. The grammar is still creaky: >> "One must go to the river"??? > > The grammar is all right, since anu-gam "to follow" is construed with > the accusative (cf. Boehtlingk and Roth's dictionary for examples): thus > anugacchatu pravaha? translates as "let one follow the flow" (though I > think "pravahamanugaccha" comes closer to GWTF). > > On 03.09.11 09:22, Dominik Wujastyk wrote: > >> See, Sanskrit is important and useful. > > Tathastu. > >> What interests me most about all this is that they don't want to know >> something from the Sanskrit tradition. [...] >> >> Is it that putting it in Sanskrit gives it some charm, or even >> authority, that it wouldn't otherwise have? Or do they want, rather, >> to suggest that "go with the flow" (henceforth GWTF) is really a >> Sanskrit saying? Or that if Sanskrit is the Language of Truth, then >> something true (?) must have been said in Sanskrit, somewhere. > > That seems to be what many of my students expect. They come to class > expecting to learn more about 'what is good', and if don't tell them > what is 'good' according to their wishful thinking, then I must be > 'wrong'. (Fortunately they sometimes explicitly say so, which leads to > amusing discussions and gives me the opportunity to set things straight > and to be a greater guru than their gurus.) > > In any case, Sanskrit is cool. My wife actually made a little bit of > money through a tattoo: a fellow wanted to have some rather > un-Sanskritic phrase tattooed on his arm, and he asked her to translate > the phrase and give the translation in "Sanskrit script" (sic). She > wrote back that she would do it only for a fee since, after all, she had > spent a good deal of time learning the language and wanted to see her > skill rewarded. He was decent and paid. > > RZ > > -- > Prof. Dr. Robert J. Zydenbos > Department fuer Asienstudien - Institut fuer Indologie und Tibetologie > Ludwig-Maximilians-Universitaet Muenchen > Tel. (+49-89-) 2180-5782 > Fax (+49-89-) 2180-5827 > http://www.lrz-muenchen.de/~zydenbos > Deutschland From veerankp at GMAIL.COM Sun Sep 4 08:56:53 2011 From: veerankp at GMAIL.COM (Veeranarayana Pandurangi) Date: Sun, 04 Sep 11 14:26:53 +0530 Subject: invading the sacred and reviews Message-ID: <161227093760.23782.7999450894483144349.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> dear all, in a new discussion/review of the book "invading the sacred" by krishnan ramasvamy et all, Shrinivasa rao said "the criticism made by prof. witzel on wendy's translation of rgveda jaiminiya brahmana etc.simply reveal that their quality was and accuracy are imcompatibble of standards of harvard " [prof. Shrinivasa rao in JICPR's latest issue xxvii no.3, july-sep 2010, pp. 133-151.] please provide some links if Witzel reviewed Wendy Doniger's work somewhere Veeranarayana N.K. Pandurangi Head, Dept of Darshanas, Yoganandacharya Bhavan, Jagadguru Ramanandacharya Rajasthan Samskrita University, Madau, post Bhankrota, Jaipur, 302026. ?? ??????????? ??????? ???????? ? ????????? ??? ???????? ??????? ? ?????? ??????????????? ?????????????? ??????? ??????? ??????????? ??????????????? ?????? ???????? ??????????? (?.??.) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From veerankp at GMAIL.COM Sun Sep 4 09:30:37 2011 From: veerankp at GMAIL.COM (Veeranarayana Pandurangi) Date: Sun, 04 Sep 11 15:00:37 +0530 Subject: query on new Genetics finds Message-ID: <161227093765.23782.7000043881549174985.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> dear all sometimes ago one of our friends gave this news on new genetics finds. I dont know if there are any reviews of this new find. please provide link if there is anything else discussion/review etc. there is a link below to the open magzine portal. "*The story of our origins"* *Open Magazine*, May 28, 2011. EXCERPTS FROM THE CONCLUSION: *"The first thing that the evidence suggests is that the origins of Hartosh's R1a1 haplogroup lie in India. Thus, a large part of Central Asia, Southern Russia, Ukraine onwards to the Czech Republic may well be populated by a 15,000-year-old migration from India. Given the timeframe of the origins of the R1a1 haplogroup in India, it is important to note that this does not rule out a subsequent re-entry of people from Central Asia bearing this marker into India at a much later date.* As further sub-lineages of Hartosh's R1a1 are studied, it may well be possible to answer even this question. The second part of their conclusions rests on the fact that the proportion of R1a1 in some Brahmin groups such as those of West Bengal is as high as 72 per cent. This indicates that the origins of Brahmins as a caste may well lie in the R1a1 haplogroup. But since the antiquity of the Ra1a haplogroup in tribals such as Central India's Sahariyas is older than it is among Brahmins, *it is reasonable to believe that Brahmins may not be entrants from outside but may have originated as a caste from the tribal population of this country."* *Read on...* 28 May 2011 The Story of Our Origins DNA tests on a cross-section of Indians including John Abraham and Baichung Bhutia reveal surprising truths about our origins BY Hartosh Singh Bal Just where did our ancestors come from? Indian diversity has long been reduced by many historians to a simple story of an invasion of Aryans pushing Dravidians further south in the Subcontinent. But an analysis of the genes that Indians bear throws up enough evidence to rubbish that theory, pointing instead to a far more complex set of migrations?and perhaps reverse migrations?many millennia earlier than commonly supposed. To get a clearer picture of our origins, *Open* sent DNA samples of a couple of celebrities, John Abraham and Baichung Bhutia, alongwith those of four magazine staffers to the National Geographic Deep Ancestry Project. Based on the genetic markers thus identified and other research conducted by scientists, we present a plausible map of our origins. Be prepared for some surprises +++ *?The diversity of India is tremendous; it is obvious; it lies on the surface and anybody can see it. It concerns itself with certain mental habits and traits. There is little in common? between the Pathan of the North-West and the Tamil in the far South. Yet?there is no mistaking the impress of India on the Pathan, as this is obvious on the Tamil?The Pathan and the Tamil are two extreme examples; the others lie somewhere in between?It is fascinating to find how the Bengalis, the Marathas, the Gujaratis, the Tamils, the Andhras, the Oriyas, the Assamese, the Canarese, the Malayalis, the Sindhis, the Punjabis, the Pathans, the Kashmiris, the Rajput, and the great central block comprising the Hindustani-speaking people, have retained their peculiar characteristics??* +++ Nehru, even in his romanticism, was only stating what every observer of India has always noticed?the tremendous diversity of people in India, not just in terms of customs and culture, but in religion, caste and appearance. The obvious question has always been: where does this diversity come from? Take, for example, caste: did the system evolve in India, or did it originate outside and become part of the country?s social structure? Were our different language groups, such as Dravidian and Indo-European, brought in by different sets of migrants? The questions are endless, and the answer to any one of them lies in the answer to the most basic question of all: where do we Indians come from? How was the Subcontinent settled? Attempts have been made to answer these questions with evidence drawn from fields as varied as linguistics and archaeology. Despite the inroads that have been made, the question has not even come close to being answered, and even the partial answers that have been on offer have been a source of contentious debate. For one, the Aryan Invasion theory?suggesting that an invasion of Indo-Europeans displaced the original Dravidian inhabitants of north India, which found favour at one time and was later rejected and denounced?addresses only a small part of the Subcontinent?s diversity as a theory. But results from an entirely different area of human study suggest that there may be a satisfactory answer to the question, and it lies in our genes. For each of us, our physical characteristics are encoded in the DNA that we carry within each cell of our body. A study of our DNA (see ?The Science of DNA Testing?) allows us to trace our ancestry. In case of men (and for women by testing their brothers or father), we can trace our line of paternal descent, our father?s father?s father?s? father, by studying the Y-chromosome; and in case of both men and women, we can trace our line of maternal descent, our mother?s mother?s mother?s? mother, by studying mitochondrial DNA. This field, now over two decades old, has slowly been refined to the point where events in our distant ancestry can now be studied. Not only are the new answers on offer fascinating, there is also the certainty that with each passing year, they will be refined, questioned and challenged to the point where we would be able to make definitive statements about our past. One such project is National Geographic?s Deep Ancestry that is compiling data from across the world on people who want to determine their distant ancestry. We sent six samples, four men and two women, of people from various parts of India to the National Geographic Project (NGP), and, based on the results we have obtained (see the case studies listed in the right column), we have attempted to map out a representative history of what can be said today about the peopling of India. To do so, we have not only sought elaboration from Ramasamy Pitchappan, principal investigator, India, of the NGP, we have also spoken to a leading Indian geneticist, RNK Bamezai, director of the National Centre of Applied Human Genetics (NCAHG) at Jawaharlal Nehru University and vice-chancellor of Jammu University. Of course, having collated all this research material and inputs, the final responsibility of the interpretations made rests with *Open*. ANTIQUITY OF THE INDIAN FEMALE POPULATION Sometime between 60,000 to 90,000 years ago, humans first moved out of Africa by crossing the Red Sea. This, in all likelihood, occurred during a glacial period when the earth was at its coldest, and falling sea levels would have shrunk the distance between Africa and Asia at its narrowest to barely 11 km. Crossing into Asia, surviving on a diet rich in shellfish, these early humans who left Africa stayed close to the coast as they made their way round to South Asia. The strongest evidence of this is offered by the study of mitochondrial DNA, which indicates the maternal line of descent (see DNA analysis ofSohini Chattopadhyay and Haima Deshpande of *Open*). All human beings outside Africa are descended from two female lines, termed Haplogroup M and N. It is unclear whether the two female lines evolved while humans were still in Africa or shortly after, but the available evidence suggests both lines were present in that first migration from Africa to South Asia. DISTRIBUTION OF MITOCHONDRIAL DNA HAPLOGROUPS IN THE INDIAN POPULATION: M ? 60 per cent N ? 25 per cent U* ? 15 per cent **A sub branch of N that is found in larger numbers in the northwest of the country* *The vast majority of the Indian population carries Sohini and Haima?s Haplogroup M, whose antiquity in India dates back at least 60,000 years ago, if not more. Since mitochondrial DNA is passed down in direct line of maternal descent, this suggests that the female population of India dates directly back to that first exodus of humans from Africa.* The N Haplogroup and its sub-haplogroup U are also found in India, but show up in high frequencies largely in the Northwest. Even these groups seem to be largely of great antiquity in the Subcontinent. There seems to have been very little migration of women into the Subcontinent after the first settlers arrived here. According to Bamezai, who advises caution in saying anything more than warranted by the data, this is not so surprising: ?The mobility of males was much more?raiding parties or for that matter armies on the move even today are largely male.? THE COMPLICATED STORY OF THE INDIAN MALE POPULATION The men who are believed to have migrated to India along with women as part of the first coastal migration from Africa are identified by the Haplogroup C. This marker is found in less than 5 per cent of the Indian population today. These migrants seem to have moved further along the coast, settling in East Asia and Australia. DISTRIBUTION OF Y-CHROMOSOME (FOUND ONLY IN MEN) DNA HAPLOGROUPS: H ? 30 per cent R1a1? 20 per cent R2a ? 15 per cent L ? 10 per cent O and related markers ? 10 per cent Others ? 15 per cent *In rather broad terms, it is possible to make some generalisations. H is found in greater percentage among the Austro-Asiatic tribal population, L among the Dravidian language (such as Tamil and Telugu) speaking non-tribal population, R1a1 among speakers of the Indo-European languages (such as Hindi, Punjabi and Bengali). But there is no way on this basis to distinguish any individual from another. An individual with R1a1 could as well be a tribal as an Indo-European language speaker. Nor can discrete groupings be identified in any clear-cut way. The L marker could be found in the north of the country, and H could show up among some Brahmins.* What we do know for sure is that the earliest large-scale male settlers in the Subcontinent belong to the line defined by Haplogroup F and its branch Haplogroup H (see the DNA analysis of John Abraham). Both these haplogroups are found in significant percentages in the Indian tribal population, reaching a combined percentage of well over 30. The F Haplogroup dates back to at least 45,000 years in the Subcontinent. John?s H haplogroup, which is not found anywhere else in the world in any significant proportion and has hence been termed the ?Indian marker?, has an antiquity in the Subcontinent of at least 25,000 years. Interestingly, though, it is found among Europe?s gypsies, indicating their Indian origin. A related line descended from Haplogroup F, termed Haplogroup L (see the DNA analysis of Sharad Raghavan), is also found in significant numbers in South India, especially Tamil Nadu among the non-tribal population. Again, this is a haplogroup rarely found outside India and has an antiquity of around 25,000 years. Two other significant haplogroups found in the Indian population are R1a1 (see the DNA analysis of Hartosh Singh Bal) and R2a, both found deep in the line of descent that goes back to Haplogroup F. Their antiquity in India dates back 15,000 to 20,000 years ago. Hartosh?s R1a1 is found in higher proportions in the north of India and among upper-castes, reaching a proportion of nearly 50 per cent in Punjab and over 70 per cent in such caste groups as West Bengal Brahmins. But it is also found in the South and among the tribal population, reaching a proportion of well over 25 per cent among the Chenchu tribals of Andhra. R2a mirrors the distribution of R1a1, but it has a far more evenly spread across the geography of the Subcontinent and the hierarchy of castes; in some ways, it is a pan-Indian marker, a significant marker that has not shown up in the small sample sent by Open to the NGP. There are also an assorted number of other markers, such as the D Haplogroup (see DNA analysis of Baichung Bhutia). This haplogroup is found in large numbers in East Asia and has likely reached Sikkim from Tibet. It is also found among some northeastern tribes that bear Haplogoup O as the other important marker. MAKING SENSE OF THE MALE LINEAGE The first male settlers of the Indian Subcontinent would have accompanied the women, whose descendants still inhabit the Subcontinent, on the first coastal migration from Africa. They are identified by the Haplogroup C marker, found in less than 5 per cent of the Indian population. According to the NGP, the presence of both John?s and Sharad?s haplogroups (H and L) in India can be explained by two separate migrations, one from the Middle East and the other from Central Asia, both dating back some 25,000 to 30,000 years ago. The NGP goes on to describe the first encounter between the men from the original settlement of India with those who arrived later. The genetic trail, the NGP states, ?provides some tantalizing clues as to what may have happened when members of the Indian Clan and the [earlier settled] Coastal Clan met. The [mitochondrial DNA] of people in this region preserves evidence of the early coastal dwellers in the female lineage, but Y-chromosome frequency for the Coastal Clan is very weak?around 5 per cent in southern India, and even less frequent going farther north. These data suggest that the descendants of the Indian Clan may have mated with the women of the earlier coastal population, but that the coastal men were killed, driven off, or otherwise prevented from reproducing.? Pitchappan elaborates, ?Probably initial colonies consisting of males and females settled and expanded. In the later migrations, either the males were by themselves or they came accompanied by very few females. Local males could have resisted and could have been exterminated, while females may have been amalgamated.? He adds that other possibilities are also conceivable, such as matrilineal societies by which the incoming males could have been amalgamated: ?There is some evidence to suggest that settlements in the Dravidian belt were female centric.? He points to the existence of matriarchal societies in the South, such as Kerala?s Nairs, as the survival of an older tradition. But stories such as this are speculative at best. In the Indian context, they are reminiscent of the possibilities once cited to describe the entry of Indo-Europeans into India, the so-called Aryan Invasion theory. The evidence so far, however, seems to suggest that the presence of both John?s and Sharad?s haplogroups in India could be well explained by an earlier arrival of the super-ancestral F haplogroup in India. In fact, it is quite likely that either the F haplogroup arrived as part of the coastal migration along with the C haplogroup, to which it is very closely related, or it evolved here in males who were part of the earlier migration. If so, it would make sense that the antiquity of a great majority of the Indian male population also goes back to the out-of-Africa coastal migration. *In fact, much of the genetic evidence seems to suggest a South Asian origin for the F haplogroup. This haplogroup and its lines of descent account for perhaps 90 per cent of the male population in the world. Contrary to received wisdom, this would imply that much of the globe outside Africa was settled by outward migrations from South Asia dating back to over 50,000 years ago. Certainly, the distant origins of the modern European population seem to lie in South Asia, emphasising the crucial importance of this region in understanding the peopling of the globe.* But beyond such speculation, which will be settled as more and more data is gathered by projects such as the NGP, the one thing that can be said with a degree of certainty is that *the antiquity of both the L and H haplogroups in India suggests that a majority of the Indian male population can trace its presence in the Subcontinent back at least 20,000 years if not earlier.* THE MYTH OF THE INDO-EUROPEAN MARKER This brings us to perhaps the most contentious of markers, Hartosh?s R1a1. The NGP states: ?Some linguists believe that the Kurgans, nomadic horsemen roaming the steppes of southern Russia and the Ukraine, were the first to speak and spread a Proto-Indo-European language, some 5,000 to 10,000 years ago. Genetic data and the distribution of Indo-European speakers suggest the Kurgans ? may have been descendents of M17 (the genetic marker that identifies the R1a1 haplogroup). Today a large concentration?around 40 per cent?of the men living from the Czech Republic across the steppes to Siberia, and south throughout Central Asia are descendants of this clan. In India, around 35 per cent of the men in Hindi-speaking populations carry the M17 marker, whereas the frequency in neighboring communities of Dravidian speakers is only about ten percent. This distribution adds weight to linguistic and archaeological evidence suggesting that a large migration from the Asian steppes into India occurred within the last 10,000 years.? This NGP claim goes far beyond what the genetic data warrants. Says Bamezai, after looking through the NGP results published in this article, ?For me as a scientist, it is necessary to be very conservative in my claims. Any broad conclusions require much more work and detailed study of not just haplogroups, but sub-haplogroups. I think the migration paths described in these cases are in question. I feel R1a1 originated here and contributed to Central Asia rather than the other way around.? A key 2009 paper published in the *Journal of Human Genetics* by Bamezai and his colleagues at JNU argues this point further: ?Many major rival models of the origin of the Hindu caste system co-exist despite extensive studies, each with associated genetic evidences. One of the major factors that has still kept the origin of the Indian caste system obscure is the unresolved question of the origin of Y-haplogroup R1a1, at times associated with a male-mediated major genetic influx from Central Asia or Eurasia, which has contributed to the higher castes in India. Y-haplogroup R1a1 has a widespread distribution and high frequency across Eurasia, Central Asia and the Indian subcontinent... To resolve these issues, we screened 621 Y-chromosomes (of Brahmins occupying the upper-most caste position and schedule castes/tribals occupying the lower-most positions)... for conclusions. A peculiar observation of the highest frequency (up to 72.22%) of Y-haplogroup R1a1 in Brahmins hinted at its presence as a founder lineage for this caste group. Further, observation of R1a1 in different tribal population groups, existence of Y-haplogroup R1a in ancestors, and extended phylogenetic analyses of the pooled dataset of 530 Indians, 224 Pakistanis and 276 Central Asians and Eurasians bearing the R1a1 haplogroup supported the autochthonous [indigenous] origin of R1a1 lineage in India and a tribal link to Indian Brahmins.? The conclusions bear restatement. *The first thing that the evidence suggests is that the origins of Hartosh?s R1a1 haplogroup lie in India. Thus, a large part of Central Asia, Southern Russia, Ukraine onwards to the Czech Republic may well be populated by a 15,000-year-old migration from India. Given the timeframe of the origins of the R1a1 haplogroup in India, it is important to note that this does not rule out a subsequent re-entry of people from Central Asia bearing this marker into India at a much later date.* As further sub-lineages of Hartosh?s R1a1 are studied, it may well be possible to answer even this question. The second part of their conclusions rests on the fact that the proportion of R1a1 in some Brahmin groups such as those of West Bengal is as high as 72 per cent. This indicates that the origins of Brahmins as a caste may well lie in the R1a1 haplogroup. But since the antiquity of the Ra1a haplogroup in tribals such as Central India?s Sahariyas is older than it is among Brahmins, *it is reasonable to believe that Brahmins may not be entrants from outside but may have originated as a caste from the tribal population of this country.* It is a strong claim, one that hints at possible discoveries that may lie ahead as the genetics of the Indian population is studied in greater detail. *The one conclusion, though, that is unlikely to change is the one Bamezai emphasises over and over: ?Groups we seem to see as distinct have overlapping genetic signatures. In fact, two castes that may have great hostility towards each other may carry the same signatures. Caste, tribe and religion in India do not have any genetic basis.?* Trite as it may sound, the conclusion is inescapable, there is unity in this diversity. http://www.openthemagazine.com/article/living/the-story-of-our-origins *BIBLIOGRAPHY* Bal, Hartosh Singh. May 28, 2011. ?The Story of Our Origins.? *Open Magazine *.http://www.openthemagazine.com/article/living/the-story-of-our-origins (Accessed May 29, 2011). ?Haplogroup D.? May 28, 2011. *Open Magazine*. http://www.openthemagazine.com/article/living/haplogroup-d (Accessed May 29, 2011). ?Haplogroup H.? May 28, 2011. *Open Magazine*. http://www.openthemagazine.com/article/living/haplogroup-h (Accessed May 29, 2011). ?Haplogroup L.? May 28, 2011. *Open Magazine*. http://www.openthemagazine.com/article/living/haplogroup-l (Accessed May 29, 2011). ?Haplogroup M.? May 28, 2011. *Open Magazine*. http://www.openthemagazine.com/article/living/haplogroup-m (Accessed May 29, 2011). ?Haplogroup R1A1.? May 28, 2011. *Open Magazine*. http://www.openthemagazine.com/article/living/haplogroup-r1a1 (Accessed May 29, 2011). Reich, David et al. print. ?Reconstructing Indian population history.? * Nature* 461(7263): 489-494. http://dx.doi.org/10.1038/nature08365. *tattvaanveShaNam*. June 15, 2010. ?The Great Aryan Hoax: Exposed by Genetics.? http://www.tattvaanveshanam.org/2010/06/15/the-great-aryan-hoax-exposed-by-genetics/(Accessed June 20, 2010). *tattvaanveShaNam*. June 15, 2010. ?The Great Aryan Hoax.? http://www.tattvaanveshanam.org/2010/06/15/the-great-aryan-hoax/ (Accessed June 20, 2010). ?The Science of DNA Testing.? 2011. *Open Magazine*. http://www.openthemagazine.com/article/living/the-science-of-dna-testing (Accessed May 29, 2011). Times News Network. Sep 25, 2009. ?Aryan-Dravidian divide a myth: Study.? *The Times of India*. http://articles.timesofindia.indiatimes.com/2009-09-25/india/28107253_1_incidence-of-genetic-diseases-indians-tribes (Accessed September 26, 2009). - Veeranarayana N.K. Pandurangi Head, Dept of Darshanas, Yoganandacharya Bhavan, Jagadguru Ramanandacharya Rajasthan Samskrita University, Madau, post Bhankrota, Jaipur, 302026. ?? ??????????? ??????? ???????? ? ????????? ??? ???????? ??????? ? ?????? ??????????????? ?????????????? ??????? ??????? ??????????? ??????????????? ?????? ???????? ??????????? (?.??.) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From gthomgt at GMAIL.COM Sun Sep 4 23:01:04 2011 From: gthomgt at GMAIL.COM (George Thompson) Date: Sun, 04 Sep 11 19:01:04 -0400 Subject: Sanskrit tatoo fail In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227093768.23782.2567971291101246342.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Dear List, I had written a brief reply to your discussion yesterday on the tattoes that I have been asked to write out for eager students over the years, to be inscribed on their bodies forever, but apparently I deleted that message by mistake. In frustration at having wasted some time on such a trivial matter -- requests from students for devanagari versions of thier favorite lines from the Buddha or the Upanshads, or lines from Socrates or Sappho in Greek, or Aurelius or Augiustine -- and given my other woes, I did't have the energy to do it again. Sorry for that, George On Sat, Sep 3, 2011 at 10:25 AM, Herman Tull wrote: > Yes. Of course. Reading it late at night I ignored the prefix on the root. Te widely reported translation is "go with the flow.". > Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry > > -----Original Message----- > From: Robert Zydenbos > Date: Sat, 3 Sep 2011 13:54:38 > To: > Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] Sanskrit tatoo fail > > On 03.09.11 07:25, Herman Tull wrote: > > ?> [...]? A better image, however shows that it is not pravaaha, but > ?> "pravaaham"-the tattoo artist used (improperly) the anusvara to > ?> indicate the final of the accusative.? The grammar is still creaky: > ?> "One must go to the river"??? > > ?The grammar is all right, since anu-gam "to follow" is construed with > ?the accusative (cf. Boehtlingk and Roth's dictionary for examples): thus > ?anugacchatu pravaha? translates as "let one follow the flow" (though I > ?think "pravahamanugaccha" comes closer to GWTF). > > ?On 03.09.11 09:22, Dominik Wujastyk wrote: > > ?> See, Sanskrit is important and useful. > > ?Tathastu. > > ?> What interests me most about all this is that they don't want to know > ?> something from the Sanskrit tradition. [...] > ?> > ?> Is it that putting it in Sanskrit gives it some charm, or even > ?> authority, that it wouldn't otherwise have?? Or do they want, rather, > ?> to suggest that "go with the flow" (henceforth GWTF) is really a > ?> Sanskrit saying?? Or that if Sanskrit is the Language of Truth, then > ?> something true (?) must have been said in Sanskrit, somewhere. > > ?That seems to be what many of my students expect. They come to class > ?expecting to learn more about 'what is good', and if don't tell them > ?what is 'good' according to their wishful thinking, then I must be > ?'wrong'. (Fortunately they sometimes explicitly say so, which leads to > ?amusing discussions and gives me the opportunity to set things straight > ?and to be a greater guru than their gurus.) > > ?In any case, Sanskrit is cool. My wife actually made a little bit of > ?money through a tattoo: a fellow wanted to have some rather > ?un-Sanskritic phrase tattooed on his arm, and he asked her to translate > ?the phrase and give the translation in "Sanskrit script" (sic). She > ?wrote back that she would do it only for a fee since, after all, she had > ?spent a good deal of time learning the language and wanted to see her > ?skill rewarded. He was decent and paid. > > ?RZ > > ?-- > ?Prof. Dr. Robert J. Zydenbos > ?Department fuer Asienstudien - Institut fuer Indologie und Tibetologie > ?Ludwig-Maximilians-Universitaet Muenchen > ?Tel. (+49-89-) 2180-5782 > ?Fax? (+49-89-) 2180-5827 > ?http://www.lrz-muenchen.de/~zydenbos > ?Deutschland > From wujastyk at GMAIL.COM Mon Sep 5 12:26:21 2011 From: wujastyk at GMAIL.COM (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Mon, 05 Sep 11 14:26:21 +0200 Subject: Sanskrit tatoo fail In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227093772.23782.18321082890195535102.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> I suppose the A?vamedha ritual is an ancient Indian case of "going with the flow." :-) (Until you meet an enemy!) Dominik On 4 September 2011 01:06, George Hart wrote: > There's already an Indian proverb for "go with the flow." A Malayali > friend used it yesterday. They translated, "If your cows go where you don't > want them to, just keep hitting them and go where they go anyway." I don't > know the Malayalam -- people speak the language too fast to catch the words, > though I did hear a?iccu. In any event, if anyone wants to use this (as a > tattoo or slogan), I'll ask and get back with the original. George Hart > > On Sep 3, 2011, at 7:25 AM, Herman Tull wrote: > > > Yes. Of course. Reading it late at night I ignored the prefix on the > root. The widely reported translation is "go with the flow.". > > Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Robert Zydenbos > > Date: Sat, 3 Sep 2011 13:54:38 > > To: > > Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] Sanskrit tatoo fail > > > > On 03.09.11 07:25, Herman Tull wrote: > > > >> [...] A better image, however shows that it is not pravaaha, but > >> "pravaaham"-the tattoo artist used (improperly) the anusvara to > >> indicate the final of the accusative. The grammar is still creaky: > >> "One must go to the river"??? > > > > The grammar is all right, since anu-gam "to follow" is construed with > > the accusative (cf. Boehtlingk and Roth's dictionary for examples): thus > > anugacchatu pravaha? translates as "let one follow the flow" (though I > > think "pravahamanugaccha" comes closer to GWTF). > > > > On 03.09.11 09:22, Dominik Wujastyk wrote: > > > >> See, Sanskrit is important and useful. > > > > Tathastu. > > > >> What interests me most about all this is that they don't want to know > >> something from the Sanskrit tradition. [...] > >> > >> Is it that putting it in Sanskrit gives it some charm, or even > >> authority, that it wouldn't otherwise have? Or do they want, rather, > >> to suggest that "go with the flow" (henceforth GWTF) is really a > >> Sanskrit saying? Or that if Sanskrit is the Language of Truth, then > >> something true (?) must have been said in Sanskrit, somewhere. > > > > That seems to be what many of my students expect. They come to class > > expecting to learn more about 'what is good', and if don't tell them > > what is 'good' according to their wishful thinking, then I must be > > 'wrong'. (Fortunately they sometimes explicitly say so, which leads to > > amusing discussions and gives me the opportunity to set things straight > > and to be a greater guru than their gurus.) > > > > In any case, Sanskrit is cool. My wife actually made a little bit of > > money through a tattoo: a fellow wanted to have some rather > > un-Sanskritic phrase tattooed on his arm, and he asked her to translate > > the phrase and give the translation in "Sanskrit script" (sic). She > > wrote back that she would do it only for a fee since, after all, she had > > spent a good deal of time learning the language and wanted to see her > > skill rewarded. He was decent and paid. > > > > RZ > > > > -- > > Prof. Dr. Robert J. Zydenbos > > Department fuer Asienstudien - Institut fuer Indologie und Tibetologie > > Ludwig-Maximilians-Universitaet Muenchen > > Tel. (+49-89-) 2180-5782 > > Fax (+49-89-) 2180-5827 > > http://www.lrz-muenchen.de/~zydenbos > > Deutschland > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From peterfriedlander at YAHOO.COM.AU Tue Sep 6 12:18:14 2011 From: peterfriedlander at YAHOO.COM.AU (Peter Friedlander) Date: Tue, 06 Sep 11 05:18:14 -0700 Subject: =?utf-8?Q?secularism:__=E2=80=98sarva_dharma_sama_bhava'_vs.______________'panthnirpeksha'?= In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227093776.23782.15516767489271426074.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Dear Colleagues,I am looking at various Hindi words for secularism.??sarva dharma samabhava' ?was I believe coined by M.K. Gandhi in 1930, but do any of you know if it has any earlier provenance?The other terms I am looking at are dharmanirpeksha, the most ordinary Hindi term, and 'panth nirpeksha' the term which is in the Hindi version of the constitution.?Does anybody know where I can find the story of how the Hindi version of the constitution ended up with the term panth nirpeksha?Peter? --------------------------- Peter Friedlander Asian StudiesLa Trobe University -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dbhattacharya200498 at YAHOO.COM Tue Sep 6 15:08:27 2011 From: dbhattacharya200498 at YAHOO.COM (Dipak Bhattacharya) Date: Tue, 06 Sep 11 20:38:27 +0530 Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_secularism:__=E2=80=98sarva_dharma_s_ama_bhava'______________vs.__'panthnirpeksha'?= In-Reply-To: <1315311494.94893.YahooMailClassic@web65712.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <161227093780.23782.3705476715582448809.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Dear Friends, It must be known to everybody that the nearest Sanskrit equivalent to ?secular science? is apar?vidy?, a very ancient term. ?dhibhautika is perhaps an exact equivalent of what is meant by ?secular? in the dictionaries. Our Hindi inventors of terms denoting modern concepts hardly looked into the ancient near equivalents. Not only is the term dharmanirapek?a ?neutral to religion? is a modern invention, it is understood too not in its literal sense but as meaning ?inclusive of all religions?. The idea of making ?secularism? in its dictionary meaning an inherent principle of the Indian state, owes its origin, most probably to the father of the Indian Constitution that is Dr. B.R. Ambedkar. ?But Nehru and his followers always opposed ?communalism? to ?secularism? that gave rise to the new meaning of the term that is ?tolerant or inclusive of all religions?. This has led to hilarious propositions that make saints like Ramanuja and Ramakrishna promoters of secularism! But the meaning has changed for good and, I think, it cannot be reversed. As for the actual terms it is perhaps best to look into the works of the various Paribhasha Committes that coined the new terms in Independent India till the mid-fifties. I may mention a few names only. Litt?rateur Rajsekhar Basu, linguist Sunitikumar Chatterji, Vedic scholar Durgamohan Bhattacharyya, Sanskrit scholar Patanjali Shastri, linguist Sukumar Sen among others for Bengali. For Hindi the most well-known name is Dr. Raghu Vira. But I do not know about the genesis of the terms. Best D.Bhattacharya ? ? --- On Tue, 6/9/11, Peter Friedlander wrote: From: Peter Friedlander Subject: [INDOLOGY] secularism: ?sarva dharma sama bhava' vs. 'panthnirpeksha' To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Date: Tuesday, 6 September, 2011, 12:18 PM Dear Colleagues,I am looking at various Hindi words for secularism.??sarva dharma samabhava' ?was I believe coined by M.K. Gandhi in 1930, but do any of you know if it has any earlier provenance?The other terms I am looking at are dharmanirpeksha, the most ordinary Hindi term, and 'panth nirpeksha' the term which is in the Hindi version of the constitution.?Does anybody know where I can find the story of how the Hindi version of the constitution ended up with the term panth nirpeksha?Peter? --------------------------- Peter Friedlander Asian StudiesLa Trobe University -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From hellwig7 at GMX.DE Tue Sep 6 19:55:16 2011 From: hellwig7 at GMX.DE (Oliver Hellwig) Date: Tue, 06 Sep 11 20:55:16 +0100 Subject: New version of the Digital Corpus of Sanskrit Message-ID: <161227093785.23782.15581473560760720295.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Dear list, I would like to announce a new version of the Digital Corpus of Sanskrit at http://kjc-fs-cluster.kjc.uni-heidelberg.de/dcs/ The new version includes new texts, a new layout, and new features (refer to http://kjc-fs-cluster.kjc.uni-heidelberg.de/dcs/index.php? contents=help_center for details). I suppose that the topic search may be the most interesting feature of this version. During the last few years, I have assigned topics such as "Medicine", "dharma" or "politics" to chapters in the Sanskrit corpus (for those of you present at the DICSEP at Dubrovnik: These topics are not identical with those in my presentation!). The menu item "Topics" directs you to the site where the top categories are displayed. Use the list to view the subtopics and their references. Some caveats when using this feature: a) I did NOT assign topics to all chapters. b) Topics reflect my ideas about the content of a chapter, and are, therefore, open to any kind of discussion. Please remind that this function was (and is) not a primary scientific aim of the corpus, but just an add-on. c) I tried to use the Library of Congress classification system as guide for designing the topic hierarchy when I started annotating the chapters. It soon became apparent that this system may not be the best choice for classifying Indian literature. Therefore, some parts of the hierarchy (e.g., on medicine) may seem a bit more structured than other ones. d) Finally, some chapters were assigned to topics using a "batch function"; this means that, for example, all chapters in alchemical texts were assigned globally to the topic "Alchemy". This may result in wrong attributions in some cases (chapters of alchemical texts that do not contain any alchemical content etc.). ----- PD Dr. Oliver Hellwig Department of Classical Indology, South-Asia Institute University of Heidelberg, Germany From hegartyjm at GOOGLEMAIL.COM Wed Sep 7 11:43:52 2011 From: hegartyjm at GOOGLEMAIL.COM (James Hegarty) Date: Wed, 07 Sep 11 12:43:52 +0100 Subject: Comparison of Buddhist and Hindu literary sources Message-ID: <161227093788.23782.15954419131646533689.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Dear Colleagues, I recently completed a short comparative analysis of the way in which the past is constructed in the D?ghanik?ya and the Mah?bh?rata (part of my newly published monograph, which I announced on the list only a few days ago). I now wish to take the comparison of Buddhist and Hindu literary sources in Sanskrit and Pali further. I am aware of work in Mah?bh?rata Studies in this area (most notably that of Greg Bailey and Alf Hiltebeitel), but would be grateful for suggestions of further reading (especially from the Buddhological side of things). I am looking for explicitly comparative studies relating to Sanskrit and Pali sources (preferably of narrative materials), but also any archaeological, epigraphical or art historical studies that may provide interesting data (particularly in terms of inter-religious rivalry). I know this topic is hopelessly vast, and my own search for materials will be ongoing, but recommendations from colleagues (of their own work or that of others) would be most helpful! Best Wishes, James Hegarty Cardiff University From utkragh at HUM.KU.DK Wed Sep 7 14:17:04 2011 From: utkragh at HUM.KU.DK (Ulrich T. Kragh) Date: Wed, 07 Sep 11 16:17:04 +0200 Subject: Comparison of Buddhist and Hindu literary sources In-Reply-To: <1B9E484F-8266-4255-971A-B57A4F0ED672@gmail.com> Message-ID: <161227093791.23782.16344131152548939012.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> James Hegarty wrote: >I am looking for explicitly comparative studies relating >to Sanskrit and Pali sources (preferably of narrative materials) ... You may see my article "Of Similes and Metaphors in Buddhist Philosophical Literature - Poetic Semblance through Mythic Allusion" in Bulletin of SOAS 73.3, 2010, pp. 479-502. There you will find some cross-references between Buddhist Pali/Sanskrit and Hindu literature concerning the trope of the hamsarajan-bird (the article's general topic) and, more specifically, in fn. 21 you will find parallels listed for the various Buddhist and Hindu stories of a king's recognition of a bastard son with or without the plot device of a signet-rign (as, e.g., seen in Kalidasa's Abhijnanasakuntala). Sincerely, Tim Dr. Ulrich Timme Kragh Gonda Fellow, IIAS, Leiden From annamisia at YAHOO.COM Thu Sep 8 15:08:36 2011 From: annamisia at YAHOO.COM (Anna A. Slaczka) Date: Thu, 08 Sep 11 08:08:36 -0700 Subject: looking for a photograph Message-ID: <161227093794.23782.16499312500955779897.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Dear All, ? I am trying to get a copy of a photograph depicting Siva dancing on the bull that seems to be?published in 'A comprehensive history of India in twelve volumes': volume 4 part 2. The sculpture aparently comes from Rayerkati, district Barisal in Bangladesh. Unfortunately, Volume 4 is absent from our library. Could anybody having access to this publication search for the photograph, scan it, and send it to me (outside the list)? I don't mind the quality of the scan so much, I would just like to know which sculpture is depicted. ? Thanks in advance! ? Anna Slaczka the Rijksmuseum Amsterdam From arlogriffiths at HOTMAIL.COM Fri Sep 9 09:03:33 2011 From: arlogriffiths at HOTMAIL.COM (Arlo Griffiths) Date: Fri, 09 Sep 11 09:03:33 +0000 Subject: XEROX/PDF request Message-ID: <161227093797.23782.7694319868000444713.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Dear colleagues, I have at my disposal here in Jakarta a very mediocre xerox of the item below, and it does not include the title-page allowing me to confirm all bibliographic data. I'd like to have a clean and complete xerox or, better still, a PDF file. I have asked our library in Paris, but the volume is not available there. Can anybody else oblige? Many thanks in advance. Arlo GriffithsEFEO/Jakarta Damais, Louis-Charles 1959 ?Le Bouddhisme en Indon?sie?, in Pr?sence du Bouddhisme, special issue of France-Asie, Saigon, 813?824. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From athr at LOC.GOV Fri Sep 9 22:36:51 2011 From: athr at LOC.GOV (Thrasher, Allen) Date: Fri, 09 Sep 11 18:36:51 -0400 Subject: Marathi verse tIkA on ZukASTaka, ascribed to Jnanadeva Message-ID: <161227093801.23782.7069258502591705714.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> LC has a MS of a Marathi TIkA on the Sanskrit ZukASTaka. There is an incomplete online catalog record of this, based on the entry in a card file of MSS acquired in 1941, presumably prepared by the unknown collector-dealer, which record can be seen at < http://lccn.loc.gov/2006551292 > (there are some inaccuracies in the transcription). The ZukASTaka mula in Sanskrit is the same work as published in 1992 with Sanskrit commentary BhAnuprabhA by GaGgAdharendrasarasvatI (18th c.) and Sanskrit notes by SuryanArAyaNanAgendra BhaTTa < http://lccn.loc.gov/94902854 >. The MS attributes the tIkA to Jnanadeva "by the grace of NivRtti," who was his elder brother and guru. The following is in Harvard-Kyoto romanization. AnusvAra in both Sanskrit and Marathi is represented by M rather than by tilde, as the ALA-LC system would require in Marathi. T.p.: AthaZukASTakaTIkAprArambhaH Beginning: ZrIgaNeZAya namaH Zuka uvAca Mula begins: BhedAbhedau sapadi galitau? Ends (vs. 9): Satyasatya [sic] paramamamrtaM? No introductory title. TIkA begins: JayAcabhedAbhedagaLAlA ZabdabrahIbuDAlA sakaLbrahmavodha[sic]ALA niZcayASI 1 TIKA ends: JosaMsAratApe atisaMtapta sAdhanacatuSTayasaMyukta tayAsiguruprasAdevastuprApta ZukASTakakAvye 39. Final colophon: Iti ZrIsukendraviracitaM nirguNASTaka nivRttiprasAdena jJAnadeveZvaraviracitaM saTIkAstotraM sampUrNam / ZrIkRSNArpaNam astu // // There are nine verses rather than the 8 implied by the title, since vs. 9 is a phalaZruti for reciting it. No such work is mentioned in Jn?a?nes?vara, vyakti a?n?i ka?vya-lekhanavishayaka su?ci? / san?kalana, S?as?ika?nta Bhagata, Kr?ttika? Dha?man?akara. http://lccn.loc.gov/93905922, which seems to be the only bibliography of editions and studies of the poet. Also, as far as I can tell there is no "complete works" of Jnanadeva in LC's collection in which I might search this, just editions of individual works such as the JJAneZvarI. Tulpule's Classical Marathi Literature, p. 357, mentions a ZukASTaka among "philosophical versified monographs" by Ekanatha, others of which have the same titles as well-known Sanskrit works such as HastAmalaka, and which I therefore suspect are either translations or Marathi commentaries, though Tulpule does not say this. These works are according to note 245 on the same page included at the end of the EkanAthI BhAgavata, ed. Jog and Deshmukh, which LC does not have. I have paged a bibliography or two of Ekanatha from remote storage. On p. 330 no. 108 Tulpule says that Pethe discusses apocryphal works attributed to Jnanadeva in his JJAneZvara navadarZana, p. 1977, which LC also is lacking, and articles by A. K. Priolkar and K. V. Apte in Marathi samZodhana patrikA, vols. 6 and 19, which vols. I have requested from remote storage. Is anyone already familiar with a 39 verse Marathi tIkA on the ZukASTaka, and if so, is there any scholarship securely assigning the authorship? Please feel free to forward to whomever might be interested or knowledgeable. Thanks very much, Allen Allen W. Thrasher, Ph.D. Senior Reference Librarian and Team Coordinator South Asia Team Asian Division Library of Congress 101 Independence Ave., S.W. Washington, DC 20540-4810 USA tel. 202-707-3732 fax 202-707-1724 The opinions expressed do not necessarily reflect those of the Library of Congress. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From wujastyk at GMAIL.COM Sun Sep 11 10:02:52 2011 From: wujastyk at GMAIL.COM (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Sun, 11 Sep 11 12:02:52 +0200 Subject: job in British government Message-ID: <161227093805.23782.16261356874808068477.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> http://www.fco.gov.uk/en/about-us/working-for-us/vacancies/india-research-analyst -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mmdesh at UMICH.EDU Sun Sep 11 13:32:35 2011 From: mmdesh at UMICH.EDU (Deshpande, Madhav) Date: Sun, 11 Sep 11 13:32:35 +0000 Subject: Harvard Rigveda files in Unicode? Message-ID: <161227093809.23782.9912806813798994634.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Hello Colleagues, Has anyone converted the text files of the Rigveda [that were distributed with the Harvard volume of the metrically restored RV by van Nooten and Holland] to Unicode Romanization? Would appreciate any information about such converted files and how to access them. Thanks. Madhav Madhav M. Deshpande Professor of Sanskrit and Linguistics Department of Asian Languages and Cultures 202 South Thayer Street, Suite 6111 The University of Michigan Ann Arbor, Michigan 48104-1608, USA ________________________________________ From: Indology [INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk] on behalf of James Hegarty [hegartyjm at GOOGLEMAIL.COM] Sent: Friday, September 02, 2011 9:49 AM To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Subject: [INDOLOGY] Publication Announcement Dear Colleagues, I am pleased to announce the publication of my monograph: Religion, Narrative and Public Imagination in South Asia: Past and Place in the Sanskrit Mah?bh?rata London: Routledge, 2012. ISBN:978-0-415-55863-1 (hbk) ISBN: 978-0-203-850512-1 (ebk) This book takes up the origin, form, content and impact of the Sanskrit Mah?bh?rata in early South Asia (by exploring the Sanskrit text as well as first millennium epigraphy and wider literature). It also includes, as an epilogue, a study of the Hindi televisual Mah?bh?rat. I hope those who are interested enjoy it! With All Best Wishes, James Hegarty From wujastyk at GMAIL.COM Sun Sep 11 18:06:51 2011 From: wujastyk at GMAIL.COM (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Sun, 11 Sep 11 20:06:51 +0200 Subject: Harvard Rigveda files in Unicode? In-Reply-To: <1A6D14A87B9BB84D9BFBF8AE65CA1DE40F88D709@its-embx-02.adsroot.itcs.umich.edu> Message-ID: <161227093812.23782.602371645147424335.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> http://www.people.fas.harvard.edu/~witzel/RV.htm Best, Dominik 2011/9/11 Deshpande, Madhav > Hello Colleagues, > > Has anyone converted the text files of the Rigveda [that were distributed > with the Harvard volume of the metrically restored RV by van Nooten and > Holland] to Unicode Romanization? Would appreciate any information about > such converted files and how to access them. Thanks. > > Madhav > > Madhav M. Deshpande > Professor of Sanskrit and Linguistics > Department of Asian Languages and Cultures > 202 South Thayer Street, Suite 6111 > The University of Michigan > Ann Arbor, Michigan 48104-1608, USA > ________________________________________ > From: Indology [INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk] on behalf of James Hegarty [ > hegartyjm at GOOGLEMAIL.COM] > Sent: Friday, September 02, 2011 9:49 AM > To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk > Subject: [INDOLOGY] Publication Announcement > > Dear Colleagues, > > I am pleased to announce the publication of my monograph: > > Religion, Narrative and Public Imagination in South Asia: Past and Place in > the Sanskrit Mah?bh?rata > > London: Routledge, 2012. > > ISBN:978-0-415-55863-1 (hbk) > ISBN: 978-0-203-850512-1 (ebk) > > This book takes up the origin, form, content and impact of the Sanskrit > Mah?bh?rata in early South Asia (by exploring the Sanskrit text as well as > first millennium epigraphy and wider literature). It also includes, as an > epilogue, a study of the Hindi televisual Mah?bh?rat. > > I hope those who are interested enjoy it! > > With All Best Wishes, > > James Hegarty > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From wujastyk at GMAIL.COM Sun Sep 11 18:18:38 2011 From: wujastyk at GMAIL.COM (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Sun, 11 Sep 11 20:18:38 +0200 Subject: Harvard Rigveda files in Unicode? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227093816.23782.7185558894734079797.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> oh, I see. That's not working. I've put the files here: http://db.tt/CZBj8sr (I went to the WayBack machine, and fetched them from the Harvard website as it was in about 2004). I shall remove the files from the link above in a few days. Would the webmaster of the Harvard site kindly fix it so the files are accessible again? Dominik On 11 September 2011 20:06, Dominik Wujastyk wrote: > http://www.people.fas.harvard.edu/~witzel/RV.htm > > Best, > Dominik > > 2011/9/11 Deshpande, Madhav > > Hello Colleagues, >> >> Has anyone converted the text files of the Rigveda [that were distributed >> with the Harvard volume of the metrically restored RV by van Nooten and >> Holland] to Unicode Romanization? Would appreciate any information about >> such converted files and how to access them. Thanks. >> >> Madhav >> >> Madhav M. Deshpande >> Professor of Sanskrit and Linguistics >> Department of Asian Languages and Cultures >> 202 South Thayer Street, Suite 6111 >> The University of Michigan >> Ann Arbor, Michigan 48104-1608, USA >> ________________________________________ >> From: Indology [INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk] on behalf of James Hegarty [ >> hegartyjm at GOOGLEMAIL.COM] >> Sent: Friday, September 02, 2011 9:49 AM >> To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk >> Subject: [INDOLOGY] Publication Announcement >> >> Dear Colleagues, >> >> I am pleased to announce the publication of my monograph: >> >> Religion, Narrative and Public Imagination in South Asia: Past and Place >> in the Sanskrit Mah?bh?rata >> >> London: Routledge, 2012. >> >> ISBN:978-0-415-55863-1 (hbk) >> ISBN: 978-0-203-850512-1 (ebk) >> >> This book takes up the origin, form, content and impact of the Sanskrit >> Mah?bh?rata in early South Asia (by exploring the Sanskrit text as well as >> first millennium epigraphy and wider literature). It also includes, as an >> epilogue, a study of the Hindi televisual Mah?bh?rat. >> >> I hope those who are interested enjoy it! >> >> With All Best Wishes, >> >> James Hegarty >> > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From wujastyk at GMAIL.COM Sun Sep 11 18:20:30 2011 From: wujastyk at GMAIL.COM (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Sun, 11 Sep 11 20:20:30 +0200 Subject: Harvard Rigveda files in Unicode? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227093820.23782.7918096277111867237.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> oh dear, it's Sunday night and I'm tired. Sorry, Madhav, I didn't take in that you're looking for UTF8. If nobody's already done it, I can do it for you. Dominik On 11 September 2011 20:18, Dominik Wujastyk wrote: > oh, I see. That's not working. > > I've put the files here: http://db.tt/CZBj8sr > > (I went to the WayBack machine, and fetched them from the Harvard website > as it was in about 2004). > > I shall remove the files from the link above in a few days. Would the > webmaster of the Harvard site kindly fix it so the files are accessible > again? > > Dominik > > > > > On 11 September 2011 20:06, Dominik Wujastyk wrote: > >> http://www.people.fas.harvard.edu/~witzel/RV.htm >> >> Best, >> Dominik >> >> 2011/9/11 Deshpande, Madhav >> >> Hello Colleagues, >>> >>> Has anyone converted the text files of the Rigveda [that were distributed >>> with the Harvard volume of the metrically restored RV by van Nooten and >>> Holland] to Unicode Romanization? Would appreciate any information about >>> such converted files and how to access them. Thanks. >>> >>> Madhav >>> >>> Madhav M. Deshpande >>> Professor of Sanskrit and Linguistics >>> Department of Asian Languages and Cultures >>> 202 South Thayer Street, Suite 6111 >>> The University of Michigan >>> Ann Arbor, Michigan 48104-1608, USA >>> ________________________________________ >>> From: Indology [INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk] on behalf of James Hegarty [ >>> hegartyjm at GOOGLEMAIL.COM] >>> Sent: Friday, September 02, 2011 9:49 AM >>> To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk >>> Subject: [INDOLOGY] Publication Announcement >>> >>> Dear Colleagues, >>> >>> I am pleased to announce the publication of my monograph: >>> >>> Religion, Narrative and Public Imagination in South Asia: Past and Place >>> in the Sanskrit Mah?bh?rata >>> >>> London: Routledge, 2012. >>> >>> ISBN:978-0-415-55863-1 (hbk) >>> ISBN: 978-0-203-850512-1 (ebk) >>> >>> This book takes up the origin, form, content and impact of the Sanskrit >>> Mah?bh?rata in early South Asia (by exploring the Sanskrit text as well as >>> first millennium epigraphy and wider literature). It also includes, as an >>> epilogue, a study of the Hindi televisual Mah?bh?rat. >>> >>> I hope those who are interested enjoy it! >>> >>> With All Best Wishes, >>> >>> James Hegarty >>> >> >> > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From gruenen at SUB.UNI-GOETTINGEN.DE Mon Sep 12 06:11:35 2011 From: gruenen at SUB.UNI-GOETTINGEN.DE (Gruenendahl, Reinhold) Date: Mon, 12 Sep 11 08:11:35 +0200 Subject: AW: [INDOLOGY] Harvard Rigveda files in Unicode? Message-ID: <161227093823.23782.13228857521266202985.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Harvard Rigveda files in Unicode can be downloaded from this website: http://www.detlef108.de/Rigveda.htm RG From jpo at UTS.CC.UTEXAS.EDU Mon Sep 12 13:37:59 2011 From: jpo at UTS.CC.UTEXAS.EDU (Patrick Olivelle) Date: Mon, 12 Sep 11 08:37:59 -0500 Subject: NYTimes Message-ID: <161227093840.23782.4746808937056325178.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> A new blog on India by NY Times: http://india.blogs.nytimes.com/?hp PO From slindqui at MAIL.SMU.EDU Mon Sep 12 08:46:43 2011 From: slindqui at MAIL.SMU.EDU (Lindquist, Steven) Date: Mon, 12 Sep 11 08:46:43 +0000 Subject: =?utf-8?Q?accented_=C5=9AB_files_in_Unicode=3F?= In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227093828.23782.2895364300559280082.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> In a similar vein, does anyone know if there is a downloadable transliterated unicode version of the ?atapatha Br?hma?a (accented, in either recension)? I am aware of GRETIL's version of M (no accents), JR Gardner's vedavid.org version, and the TITUS accented version of M (which is what I often use, but it is not downloadable as far as I can tell; K is listed as in preparation). I hadn't searched for this in a long time, but in doing so now I was pleased to find that archive.org has a full scan of Eggeling's translation. Best, Steven STEVEN LINDQUIST, PH.D. ASSISTANT PROFESSOR DIRECTOR OF ASIAN STUDIES _____________ Department of Religious Studies Southern Methodist University PO Box 750202 | Dallas | TX | 75275 http://faculty.smu.edu/slindqui From: "Gruenendahl, Reinhold" > Reply-To: "Gruenendahl, Reinhold" > Date: Mon, 12 Sep 2011 08:11:35 +0200 To: Indology > Subject: [INDOLOGY] AW: [INDOLOGY] Harvard Rigveda files in Unicode? Harvard Rigveda files in Unicode can be downloaded from this website: http://www.detlef108.de/Rigveda.htm RG From wujastyk at GMAIL.COM Mon Sep 12 07:08:00 2011 From: wujastyk at GMAIL.COM (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Mon, 12 Sep 11 09:08:00 +0200 Subject: Harvard Rigveda files in Unicode? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227093826.23782.5533902290752642843.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Excellent. Sorted, I think, Madhav? Dominik On 12 September 2011 08:04, Gruenendahl, Reinhold < gruenen at sub.uni-goettingen.de> wrote: > Harvard Rigveda files in Unicode can be obtained from this website: > > http://www.detlef108.de/Rigveda.htm > > > RG > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From e.ciurtin at GMAIL.COM Mon Sep 12 08:59:36 2011 From: e.ciurtin at GMAIL.COM (Eugen Ciurtin) Date: Mon, 12 Sep 11 11:59:36 +0300 Subject: Comparison of Buddhist and Hindu literary sources In-Reply-To: <1F66872A1D7E184FADA521025DD5F15A097CE840E2@post> Message-ID: <161227093831.23782.5214340504278423256.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> As for the French Indian & Buddhist Studies, a relevant discussion, continuing Madeleine Biardeau's work on the the Epics (especially of 1999 & 2002), you may find in Jean-Pierre Osier's long introduction to his translation of the Vessantarajataka (Paris: Cerf, 2010). In a 2009 study of earthquakes in Indian Buddhist sources and a forthcoming second part which would benefit from the recent issue of RoSA on this topic, I compare several stock expressions relating earthquakes to heroes (birth, death, exceptional agency, etc.), which perhaps underline polemics of cosmic status in Buddhist and Hindu sources. In his *A Bull of a Man *(Harvard 2009), John Powers discussed bold expressions like rsabha, jinarsabha u. Verw.: however, all these seem to be much more frequent in the Epics than in Buddhist early sources. A forthcoming French book by Ronan Moreau will also show the functioning of animal comparison in the Epics, which have many echoes in Pali/BH Sanskrit/Gandhari sources. E.Ciurtin Institute for the History of Religions, Bucharest 2011/9/7 Ulrich T. Kragh > James Hegarty wrote: > >I am looking for explicitly comparative studies relating > >to Sanskrit and Pali sources (preferably of narrative materials) ... > > You may see my article "Of Similes and Metaphors in Buddhist Philosophical > Literature - Poetic Semblance through Mythic Allusion" in Bulletin of SOAS > 73.3, 2010, pp. 479-502. > > There you will find some cross-references between Buddhist Pali/Sanskrit > and Hindu literature concerning the trope of the hamsarajan-bird (the > article's general topic) and, more specifically, in fn. 21 you will find > parallels listed for the various Buddhist and Hindu stories of a king's > recognition of a bastard son with or without the plot device of a > signet-rign (as, e.g., seen in Kalidasa's Abhijnanasakuntala). > > Sincerely, > Tim > > Dr. Ulrich Timme Kragh > Gonda Fellow, IIAS, Leiden -- Dr E. Ciurtin Secretary of the Romanian Association for the History of Religions Publications Officer of the European Association for the Study of Religions www.easr.eu Lecturer & Secretary of the Scientific Council Institute for the History of Religions, Romanian Academy Calea 13 Septembrie no. 13 sect. 5, Bucharest 050711 Phone: 00 40 733 951 953 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From arlogriffiths at HOTMAIL.COM Mon Sep 12 13:57:28 2011 From: arlogriffiths at HOTMAIL.COM (Arlo Griffiths) Date: Mon, 12 Sep 11 13:57:28 +0000 Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_[INDOL_OGY]_accen_ted_=C5=9AB_fil_es_in_Unic_ode=3F?= In-Reply-To: <1315828855.45459.YahooMailClassic@web94806.mail.in2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <161227093842.23782.3578260746603414841.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> The file I have submitted to GRETIL for the Gopathabr?hma?a (based on the edition by D. Gaastra, with some corrections from various sources) should, barring any oversights on my side, be complete. Best wishes, Arlo Griffiths EFEO/Jakarta Date: Mon, 12 Sep 2011 17:30:55 +0530 From: dbhattacharya200498 at YAHOO.COM Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] accented ?B files in Unicode? To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk The same holds good for the Gopatha-Br?hma?a and the two V?jasaneya-Sa?hit?s. A M?dhyandina-Samhit? with Hindi commentary is available but more valuable will be the text with Uva?a and Mah?dhara. The Gopatha-Br?hma?a has been kindly made available by Gretil but it is incomplete. I have only a J?v?nanda Vidy?s?gara edition which is not very dependable and is already 12 decades old. The two critical editions are out of print. The K??va ?.B. is available in print with S?ya?a?s commentary but not with Gretil. Best DB --- On Mon, 12/9/11, Lindquist, Steven wrote: From: Lindquist, Steven Subject: [INDOLOGY] accented ?B files in Unicode? To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Date: Monday, 12 September, 2011, 8:46 AM In a similar vein, does anyone know if there is a downloadable transliterated unicode version of the ?atapatha Br?hma?a (accented, in either recension)? I am aware of GRETIL's version of M (no accents), JR Gardner's vedavid.org version, and the TITUS accented version of M (which is what I often use, but it is not downloadable as far as I can tell; K is listed as in preparation). I hadn't searched for this in a long time, but in doing so now I was pleased to find that archive.org has a full scan of Eggeling's translation. Best, Steven STEVEN LINDQUIST, PH.D. ASSISTANT PROFESSOR DIRECTOR OF ASIAN STUDIES _____________ Department of Religious Studies Southern Methodist University PO Box 750202 | Dallas | TX | 75275 http://faculty.smu.edu/slindqui From: "Gruenendahl, Reinhold" > Reply-To: "Gruenendahl, Reinhold" > Date: Mon, 12 Sep 2011 08:11:35 +0200 To: Indology > Subject: [INDOLOGY] AW: [INDOLOGY] Harvard Rigveda files in Unicode? Harvard Rigveda files in Unicode can be downloaded from this website: http://www.detlef108.de/Rigveda.htm RG -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From christophe.vielle at UCLOUVAIN.BE Mon Sep 12 12:19:09 2011 From: christophe.vielle at UCLOUVAIN.BE (Christophe Vielle) Date: Mon, 12 Sep 11 14:19:09 +0200 Subject: Prof. R.S. Sharma Obituary Message-ID: <161227093837.23782.3325059575609858213.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> From The Frontline, sept. 10-23, 2011: http://www.flonnet.com/stories/20110923281910500.htm -- http://www.uclouvain.be/christophe.vielle http://belgianindology.blogs.lalibre.be/ http://www.uclouvain.be/356389.html -- Sign-up to Dropbox using the following link and get 2.25 gigabytes of storage free. http://www.dropbox.com/referrals/NTEwOTE3Nzg1OQ From hwtull at MSN.COM Mon Sep 12 19:47:02 2011 From: hwtull at MSN.COM (Herman Tull) Date: Mon, 12 Sep 11 15:47:02 -0400 Subject: transliteration Message-ID: <161227093858.23782.16969446096820198496.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> I am doing some work with transliteration schemes, and I notice that in some documentation of the Harvard Kyoto system the long vowel ?r? is denoted as ?q?; other sources have it as ?RR.? Does anyone have any information on which is correct? Additionally, has anyone had the experience of choosing or being asked to choose one of the non-IAST systems (e.g., Velthius, Harvard Kyoto, ITRANS) for traditionally published works? Herman Tull Princeton, NJ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dbhattacharya200498 at YAHOO.COM Mon Sep 12 12:00:55 2011 From: dbhattacharya200498 at YAHOO.COM (Dipak Bhattacharya) Date: Mon, 12 Sep 11 17:30:55 +0530 Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_accented_=C5=9AB_files_in_Unicode=3F?= In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227093834.23782.17643795635814220612.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> The same holds good for the Gopatha-Br?hma?a and the two V?jasaneya-Sa?hit?s. A M?dhyandina-Samhit? with Hindi commentary is available but more valuable will be the text with Uva?a and Mah?dhara. The Gopatha-Br?hma?a has been kindly made available by Gretil but it is incomplete. I have only a J?v?nanda Vidy?s?gara edition which is not very dependable and is already 12 decades old. The two critical editions are out of print. The K??va ?.B. is available in print with S?ya?a?s commentary but not with Gretil. Best DB --- On Mon, 12/9/11, Lindquist, Steven wrote: From: Lindquist, Steven Subject: [INDOLOGY] accented ?B files in Unicode? To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Date: Monday, 12 September, 2011, 8:46 AM In a similar vein, does anyone know if there is a downloadable transliterated unicode version of the ?atapatha Br?hma?a (accented, in either recension)?? I am aware of GRETIL's version of M (no accents), JR Gardner's vedavid.org version, and the TITUS accented version of M (which is what I often use, but it is not downloadable as far as I can tell; K is listed as in preparation). I hadn't searched for this in a long time, but in doing so now I was pleased to find that archive.org has a full scan of Eggeling's translation. Best, Steven STEVEN LINDQUIST, PH.D. ASSISTANT PROFESSOR DIRECTOR OF ASIAN STUDIES _____________ Department of Religious Studies Southern Methodist University PO Box 750202 | Dallas | TX | 75275 http://faculty.smu.edu/slindqui From: "Gruenendahl, Reinhold" > Reply-To: "Gruenendahl, Reinhold" > Date: Mon, 12 Sep 2011 08:11:35 +0200 To: Indology > Subject: [INDOLOGY] AW: [INDOLOGY] Harvard Rigveda files in Unicode? Harvard Rigveda files in Unicode can be downloaded from this website: http://www.detlef108.de/Rigveda.htm RG -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From wujastyk at GMAIL.COM Mon Sep 12 16:45:28 2011 From: wujastyk at GMAIL.COM (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Mon, 12 Sep 11 18:45:28 +0200 Subject: Fwd: Seeking Devanagari-Sanskrit research assistant In-Reply-To: <956BA6E3-CD4F-4620-A930-314EFA8EA963@fiolink.com> Message-ID: <161227093850.23782.7813343182952301831.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Query from Michael LaVigne (artist), who is working on a mural that incorporates Indian themes. Replies to the Mike LaVigne (Mr Spaceman), please. ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: mr spaceman Date: 11 September 2011 17:43 Subject: Seeking Devanagari-Sanskrit research assistant To: INDOLOGYCOMMITTEE at liverpool.ac.uk Dear Indology, I'm seeking a research assistant to hire to help find texts written in Devanagari-Sanskrit. I'm hoping you can direct me to someone who may be willing to help, or provide a suggestion of how I might find someone. These are the texts: *1. Dharmacakra Pravartana S?tra, *Sa?yukta ?gama edition *2. Chandogya-Upanisad,* chapter 7.26.2 In addition to these, I'm looking for texts that are examples of non-Buddhist antecedents to the Buddhist concepts of Kle?? and The Four Noble Truths. This research would be paid for, and informs the creation of a piece of artwork in respect to these topics. Finding these texts has been a considerable struggle for me over the past many months, and any leads you can provide would be greatly appreciated. Best regards, Mike LaVigne -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dbhattacharya200498 at YAHOO.COM Mon Sep 12 16:02:53 2011 From: dbhattacharya200498 at YAHOO.COM (Dipak Bhattacharya) Date: Mon, 12 Sep 11 21:32:53 +0530 Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_[INDOL_OGY]_accen_ted_=C5=9AB_fil__es_in_Unic_ode=3F?= In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227093846.23782.2066068487382975616.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> 12 09 11 Dear Friends, That is encouraging but, I do not know why, the version?I downloaded runs up to v?todh?v?t ?GpBr_1,3.6. I do not know if there is any incompatibility on any side that has prevented a complete downloading. There is a Bengali transl. by T. N. Adhikari, but that does not serve my purpose. I expect to get a copy of H. C. Patyal?s translation. There is also a possibility of the R. L. Mitra edition being reprinted. That will remove the difficulties. Even then a complete text on the internet will be useful. I am checking again with Gretil. Best DB????????? --- On Mon, 12/9/11, Arlo Griffiths wrote: From: Arlo Griffiths Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] [INDOL OGY] accen ted ?B fil es in Unic ode? To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Date: Monday, 12 September, 2011, 1:57 PM The file I have submitted to GRETIL for the Gopathabr?hma?a (based on the edition by D. Gaastra, with some corrections from various sources) should, barring any oversights on my side, be complete. Best wishes, Arlo Griffiths EFEO/Jakarta Date: Mon, 12 Sep 2011 17:30:55 +0530 From: dbhattacharya200498 at YAHOO.COM Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] accented ?B files in Unicode? To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk The same holds good for the Gopatha-Br?hma?a and the two V?jasaneya-Sa?hit?s. A M?dhyandina-Samhit? with Hindi commentary is available but more valuable will be the text with Uva?a and Mah?dhara. The Gopatha-Br?hma?a has been kindly made available by Gretil but it is incomplete. I have only a J?v?nanda Vidy?s?gara edition which is not very dependable and is already 12 decades old. The two critical editions are out of print. The K??va ?.B. is available in print with S?ya?a?s commentary but not with Gretil. Best DB --- On Mon, 12/9/11, Lindquist, Steven wrote: From: Lindquist, Steven Subject: [INDOLOGY] accented ?B files in Unicode? To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Date: Monday, 12 September, 2011, 8:46 AM In a similar vein, does anyone know if there is a downloadable transliterated unicode version of the ?atapatha Br?hma?a (accented, in either recension)?? I am aware of GRETIL's version of M (no accents), JR Gardner's vedavid.org version, and the TITUS accented version of M (which is what I often use, but it is not downloadable as far as I can tell; K is listed as in preparation). I hadn't searched for this in a long time, but in doing so now I was pleased to find that archive.org has a full scan of Eggeling's translation. Best, Steven STEVEN LINDQUIST, PH.D. ASSISTANT PROFESSOR DIRECTOR OF ASIAN STUDIES _____________ Department of Religious Studies Southern Methodist University PO Box 750202 | Dallas | TX | 75275 http://faculty.smu.edu/slindqui From: "Gruenendahl, Reinhold" > Reply-To: "Gruenendahl, Reinhold" > Date: Mon, 12 Sep 2011 08:11:35 +0200 To: Indology > Subject: [INDOLOGY] AW: [INDOLOGY] Harvard Rigveda files in Unicode? Harvard Rigveda files in Unicode can be downloaded from this website: http://www.detlef108.de/Rigveda.htm RG -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dbhattacharya200498 at YAHOO.COM Mon Sep 12 18:17:57 2011 From: dbhattacharya200498 at YAHOO.COM (Dipak Bhattacharya) Date: Mon, 12 Sep 11 23:47:57 +0530 Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Fw:_Re:_[INDOLOGY]_[INDOL_OGY]_accen_ted_=C5=9AB__fil______________es_in_Unic_ode=3F?= Message-ID: <161227093854.23782.7359095874616972431.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> 12 09 11 This is in continuation. I checked for the Gop. Br. with Gretil. Dr. Griffiths is right. ?There are two inputs, one by Arlo Griffiths and another by Oliver Hellwig. I am almost unacquainted with the transcription marks in the former, which are nevertheless fully explained, ?while the diacritics in the latter are more user friendly for me as they are easily transferable to the Devnagari in an Indian processor. But while Griffiths? text is complete Oliver Hellwig?s ?easily transformation worthy text? ends at GB 1.3.6. I am seeking a programme that can easily transform Griffiths? text into Devnagari. Any hint from colleagues will be welcome. Best DB --- On Mon, 12/9/11, Dipak Bhattacharya wrote: From: Dipak Bhattacharya Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] [INDOL OGY] accen ted ?B fil es in Unic ode? To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk, "Arlo Griffiths" Date: Monday, 12 September, 2011, 4:02 PM 12 09 11 Dear Friends, That is encouraging but, I do not know why, the version?I downloaded runs up to v?todh?v?t ?GpBr_1,3.6. I do not know if there is any incompatibility on any side that has prevented a complete downloading. There is a Bengali transl. by T. N. Adhikari, but that does not serve my purpose. I expect to get a copy of H. C. Patyal?s translation. There is also a possibility of the R. L. Mitra edition being reprinted. That will remove the difficulties. Even then a complete text on the internet will be useful. I am checking again with Gretil. Best DB????????? --- On Mon, 12/9/11, Arlo Griffiths wrote: From: Arlo Griffiths Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] [INDOL OGY] accen ted ?B fil es in Unic ode? To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Date: Monday, 12 September, 2011, 1:57 PM The file I have submitted to GRETIL for the Gopathabr?hma?a (based on the edition by D. Gaastra, with some corrections from various sources) should, barring any oversights on my side, be complete. Best wishes, Arlo Griffiths EFEO/Jakarta Date: Mon, 12 Sep 2011 17:30:55 +0530 From: dbhattacharya200498 at YAHOO.COM Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] accented ?B files in Unicode? To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk The same holds good for the Gopatha-Br?hma?a and the two V?jasaneya-Sa?hit?s. A M?dhyandina-Samhit? with Hindi commentary is available but more valuable will be the text with Uva?a and Mah?dhara. The Gopatha-Br?hma?a has been kindly made available by Gretil but it is incomplete. I have only a J?v?nanda Vidy?s?gara edition which is not very dependable and is already 12 decades old. The two critical editions are out of print. The K??va ?.B. is available in print with S?ya?a?s commentary but not with Gretil. Best DB --- On Mon, 12/9/11, Lindquist, Steven wrote: From: Lindquist, Steven Subject: [INDOLOGY] accented ?B files in Unicode? To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Date: Monday, 12 September, 2011, 8:46 AM In a similar vein, does anyone know if there is a downloadable transliterated unicode version of the ?atapatha Br?hma?a (accented, in either recension)?? I am aware of GRETIL's version of M (no accents), JR Gardner's vedavid.org version, and the TITUS accented version of M (which is what I often use, but it is not downloadable as far as I can tell; K is listed as in preparation). I hadn't searched for this in a long time, but in doing so now I was pleased to find that archive.org has a full scan of Eggeling's translation. Best, Steven STEVEN LINDQUIST, PH.D. ASSISTANT PROFESSOR DIRECTOR OF ASIAN STUDIES _____________ Department of Religious Studies Southern Methodist University PO Box 750202 | Dallas | TX | 75275 http://faculty.smu.edu/slindqui From: "Gruenendahl, Reinhold" > Reply-To: "Gruenendahl, Reinhold" > Date: Mon, 12 Sep 2011 08:11:35 +0200 To: Indology > Subject: [INDOLOGY] AW: [INDOLOGY] Harvard Rigveda files in Unicode? Harvard Rigveda files in Unicode can be downloaded from this website: http://www.detlef108.de/Rigveda.htm RG -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jpo at UTS.CC.UTEXAS.EDU Tue Sep 13 19:03:49 2011 From: jpo at UTS.CC.UTEXAS.EDU (Patrick Olivelle) Date: Tue, 13 Sep 11 14:03:49 -0500 Subject: E-text Message-ID: <161227093861.23782.14854921256370928076.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Can anyone direct me to a searchable e-file of ??draka's M?cchaka?ik?? Thanks. Patrick From daniel at DANIELSTENDER.COM Wed Sep 14 09:14:21 2011 From: daniel at DANIELSTENDER.COM (Daniel Stender) Date: Wed, 14 Sep 11 11:14:21 +0200 Subject: Indology FAQ In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227093867.23782.5494659500708897125.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Manuel Batsching has compiled a very nice primer on these issues. To my opinion it could be of help also for non-German readers. Dude, wouldn't you like to share the PDF like it got so far? Greetings, Daniel Am 14.09.2011 10:37, schrieb venetia ansell: > It struck me that the Indology FAQ lacked a section dealing with technology-related queries of all > natures, so I have added a category to this effect and created some very rudimentary headings here: > http://faq.indology.info/wiki/Technology-Related_Matters. > > If those in the group with some expertise in these matters could add to/modify these headings and > add content it would become a very welcome resource for novices like me. > > Thank you, > > Venetia -- http://www.danielstender.com/granthinam/ GPG key ID: 1654BD9C From daniel at DANIELSTENDER.COM Wed Sep 14 10:49:59 2011 From: daniel at DANIELSTENDER.COM (Daniel Stender) Date: Wed, 14 Sep 11 12:49:59 +0200 Subject: transliteration In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227093873.23782.15072372164234708778.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Generally most comprehensive dealing with different transliteration schemes and recently available online: Scharf/Hyman's "Linguistic issues encoding Sanskrit" http://sanskrit1.ccv.brown.edu/tomcat/sl/-/pub/lies_sl.pdf Greetings, Daniel Stender Am 12.09.2011 21:47, schrieb Herman Tull: > I am doing some work with transliteration schemes, and I notice that in some documentation of the > Harvard Kyoto system the long vowel ?r? is denoted as ?q?; other sources have it as ?RR.? Does > anyone have any information on which is correct? > > Additionally, has anyone had the experience of choosing or being asked to choose one of the non-IAST > systems (e.g., Velthius, Harvard Kyoto, ITRANS) for traditionally published works? > > Herman Tull > Princeton, NJ -- http://www.danielstender.com/granthinam/ GPG key ID: 1654BD9C From daniel at DANIELSTENDER.COM Wed Sep 14 11:49:12 2011 From: daniel at DANIELSTENDER.COM (Daniel Stender) Date: Wed, 14 Sep 11 13:49:12 +0200 Subject: transliteration In-Reply-To: <1A6D14A87B9BB84D9BFBF8AE65CA1DE40F88ECE0@its-embx-02.adsroot.itcs.umich.edu> Message-ID: <161227093876.23782.7273882975332387294.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Dear Prof. Deshpande, I think this one was supposed to go the list also, so please allow me to forward it, Greetings, Daniel Stender Am 14.09.2011 13:32, schrieb Deshpande, Madhav: > Thanks, Daniel, for pointing out this work. It is as you say "most comprehensive" and perhaps the best treatment of the issues that I have seen so far. Peter Scharf, is this coming out as a printed book? I can ask my university library to make sure they order a copy. Best, > > Madhav > > Madhav M. Deshpande > Professor of Sanskrit and Linguistics > Department of Asian Languages and Cultures > 202 South Thayer Street, Suite 6111 > The University of Michigan > Ann Arbor, Michigan 48104-1608, USA -- http://www.danielstender.com/granthinam/ GPG key ID: 1654BD9C From venetia.ansell at GMAIL.COM Wed Sep 14 08:37:01 2011 From: venetia.ansell at GMAIL.COM (venetia ansell) Date: Wed, 14 Sep 11 14:07:01 +0530 Subject: Indology FAQ In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227093864.23782.10593146546370013595.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> It struck me that the Indology FAQ lacked a section dealing with technology-related queries of all natures, so I have added a category to this effect and created some very rudimentary headings here: http://faq.indology.info/wiki/Technology-Related_Matters. If those in the group with some expertise in these matters could add to/modify these headings and add content it would become a very welcome resource for novices like me. Thank you, Venetia On Wed, Aug 17, 2011 at 6:25 PM, Dominik Wujastyk wrote: > Dear colleagues, > > Some of you may remember that a while back I established a Frequently Asked > Questions (FAQ) area for members of this list, at > > - http://faq.indology.info > > At the time, the idea was to provide us all with an area where we could > write without fear of our text being subverted by other editors without > university-level academic acumen (as happens sometimes in Wikipedia). In my > mind, the FAQ would contain succinct essays by members of this forum on > indological topics that come up frequently in the minds of the general > public. > > The initiative got bogged down, though, with the security issues. Members > had to apply for a password in order to gain access, and the whole thing was > just too darn fiddly. > > I have now lifted the password restriction. Anyone may now write on the > FAQ, and I hope I can encourage many of you to contribute a few words on any > topic that you think could be interesting to the public, and on which you > could give some authoritative words in a short compass. > > By removing the password restriction, I have opened the FAQ up to potential > abuse. We'll all simply have to keep an eye on it, and hope things don't > get out of hand. If it goes bad, we'll have to deal with that in due > course. > > Please consider going over to http://faq.indology.info and contributing a > few words on your favourite topic. The topical structure that I put there > is just a suggestion. Feel completely free to add, change, delete, or > rearrange. > > Best, > Dominik > > -- > Dr Dominik Wujastyk > INDOLOGY committee > -- Venetia Ansell Bangalore | India www.venetiaansell.wordpress.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From karp at UW.EDU.PL Wed Sep 14 12:14:14 2011 From: karp at UW.EDU.PL (Artur Karp) Date: Wed, 14 Sep 11 14:14:14 +0200 Subject: transliteration In-Reply-To: <4E7094B8.4010602@danielstender.com> Message-ID: <161227093879.23782.10673627258712019147.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> I'd second Prof. Deshpande's opinion. A fantastic piece of work. My thanks to the Authors, Artur Karp Poland From r.mahoney at INDICA-ET-BUDDHICA.ORG Wed Sep 14 09:26:50 2011 From: r.mahoney at INDICA-ET-BUDDHICA.ORG (Richard MAHONEY) Date: Wed, 14 Sep 11 21:26:50 +1200 Subject: Indology FAQ In-Reply-To: <4E70706D.3080504@danielstender.com> Message-ID: <161227093870.23782.15501976042952201665.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Dear Daniel, On Wed, Sep 14, 2011 at 11:14:21AM +0200, Daniel Stender wrote: > Manuel Batsching has compiled a very nice primer on these issues. To my opinion it could be of help > also for non-German readers. Dude, wouldn't you like to share the PDF like it got so far? ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ It would be just great if this manual could be made available for non-American speakers as well ;) Kind regards, Richard > Greetings, > Daniel > > Am 14.09.2011 10:37, schrieb venetia ansell: > > It struck me that the Indology FAQ lacked a section dealing with technology-related queries of all > > natures, so I have added a category to this effect and created some very rudimentary headings here: > > http://faq.indology.info/wiki/Technology-Related_Matters. > > > > If those in the group with some expertise in these matters could add to/modify these headings and > > add content it would become a very welcome resource for novices like me. > > > > Thank you, > > > > Venetia > -- Richard MAHONEY - Indica et Buddhica Littledene, Bay Road, OXFORD 7430, NZ Tel.: +64 3 312 1699 r.mahoney at indica-et-buddhica.org http://indica-et-buddhica.org http://camera-antipodea.indica-et-buddhica.com From gruenen at SUB.UNI-GOETTINGEN.DE Thu Sep 15 16:50:58 2011 From: gruenen at SUB.UNI-GOETTINGEN.DE (Gruenendahl, Reinhold) Date: Thu, 15 Sep 11 18:50:58 +0200 Subject: GRETIL update #393 Message-ID: <161227093881.23782.13540066871266376888.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> GRETIL is pleased to be able to report the following addition(s) to its collection: Pauskara-Samhita, Adhyayas 27-43 Yogasata __________________________________________________________________________ "GRETIL is intended as a cumulative register of the numerous download sites for electronic texts in Indian languages." (from the 2001 "mission statement") GRETIL - Goettingen Register of Electronic Texts in Indian Languages: http://gretil.sub.uni-goettingen.de/gretil.htm ... and yes, contributions of e-texts are welcome! From harshadehejia at HOTMAIL.COM Fri Sep 16 10:10:18 2011 From: harshadehejia at HOTMAIL.COM (Harsha Dehejia) Date: Fri, 16 Sep 11 06:10:18 -0400 Subject: Karun and karuna Message-ID: <161227093884.23782.15264288470308943711.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Friends~ Are karun and karunA two different words? Does karun mean pathos and karunA compassion? Any help from Sanskritists would be greatly appreciated. Regards. Harsha Harsha V. Dehejia Carleton University, Ottawa, ON. Canada. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dbhattacharya200498 at YAHOO.COM Fri Sep 16 11:03:33 2011 From: dbhattacharya200498 at YAHOO.COM (Dipak Bhattacharya) Date: Fri, 16 Sep 11 16:33:33 +0530 Subject: Fw: Re: [INDOLOGY] Karun and karuna Message-ID: <161227093888.23782.2611387101793407609.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> --- On Fri, 16/9/11, Dipak Bhattacharya wrote: From: Dipak Bhattacharya Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] Karun and karuna To: "Harsha Dehejia" Date: Friday, 16 September, 2011, 11:00 AM karu?a ?melancholy, sad? ex. karu?avipralambharasa karu?? ?kindness, pity?, ex. karu?? as a brhmavih?raBestDB --- On Fri, 16/9/11, Harsha Dehejia wrote: From: Harsha Dehejia Subject: [INDOLOGY] Karun and karuna To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Date: Friday, 16 September, 2011, 10:10 AM Friends~ ? Are karun and karunA two different words? ? Does karun mean pathos and karunA compassion? ? Any help from Sanskritists would be greatly appreciated. ? Regards. ? Harsha Harsha V. Dehejia Carleton University, Ottawa, ON. Canada. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From hwtull at MSN.COM Sat Sep 17 15:00:54 2011 From: hwtull at MSN.COM (Herman Tull) Date: Sat, 17 Sep 11 11:00:54 -0400 Subject: transliteration In-Reply-To: <4E7086D7.9080908@danielstender.com> Message-ID: <161227093892.23782.10750903019313853960.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Thanks for the reference to Scharf & Hyman; this is a fabulous work. Unfortunately, two mysteries for the Harvard Kyoto transliteration convention remain, namely the long vowel "r" (? / ? transliterated as "q" by Scharf and Hyman and also, Wujastyk, but as "RR" by others) and the short vowel "l" (? /? transliterated as "L" by Scharf and Hyman and also, Wujastyk, but by others as "lR"). I realize that H-K has been superseded by other conventions, but it is useful (because of its simplicity) for student e-mails, and also because it is used in the on-line Monier Williams dictionary (http://gandhari.org/a_mw.php and http://www.sanskrit-lexicon.uni-koeln.de/monier/). Incidentally, the on-line MW uses the "RR" (long vowel "r"; ? / ?) and "lR" conventions (short vowel "l"; ? /?). Any further insights into this would be greatly appreciated. Herman Tull -----Original Message----- From: Daniel Stender Sent: Wednesday, September 14, 2011 6:49 AM To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] transliteration Generally most comprehensive dealing with different transliteration schemes and recently available online: Scharf/Hyman's "Linguistic issues encoding Sanskrit" http://sanskrit1.ccv.brown.edu/tomcat/sl/-/pub/lies_sl.pdf Greetings, Daniel Stender Am 12.09.2011 21:47, schrieb Herman Tull: > I am doing some work with transliteration schemes, and I notice that in > some documentation of the > Harvard Kyoto system the long vowel ?r? is denoted as ?q?; other sources > have it as ?RR.? Does > anyone have any information on which is correct? > > Additionally, has anyone had the experience of choosing or being asked to > choose one of the non-IAST > systems (e.g., Velthius, Harvard Kyoto, ITRANS) for traditionally > published works? > > Herman Tull > Princeton, NJ -- http://www.danielstender.com/granthinam/ GPG key ID: 1654BD9C From pf8 at SOAS.AC.UK Wed Sep 21 11:30:18 2011 From: pf8 at SOAS.AC.UK (Peter Flugel) Date: Wed, 21 Sep 11 12:30:18 +0100 Subject: Call for Papers: Jaina Logic in Context, SOAS 21-22 March 2013 Message-ID: <161227093895.23782.8321351330928502378.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> *Jaina Logic in Context: 15th Jaina Studies Workshop at SOAS, 21-22 March 2013* The workshop will be opened by the 13th Annual Jaina Lecture at SOAS by Professor Piotr Balcerowicz, University of Warsaw. Papers are invited on Jaina logic and multiperspectivism from comparative and interdisciplinary points of view. -- Dr Peter Fl?gel Chair, Centre of Jaina Studies Department of the Study of Religions Faculty of Arts and Humanities School of Oriental and African Studies University of London Thornhaugh Street Russell Square London WC1H OXG Tel.: (+44-20) 7898 4776 E-mail: pf8 at soas.ac.uk http://www.soas.ac.uk/jainastudies -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From arlogriffiths at HOTMAIL.COM Thu Sep 22 06:37:15 2011 From: arlogriffiths at HOTMAIL.COM (Arlo Griffiths) Date: Thu, 22 Sep 11 06:37:15 +0000 Subject: senaapati Message-ID: <161227093898.23782.11018784190311166287.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Dear colleagues, Allow me to pose a question about a phenomenon that I am probably not yet grasping in its full extent and complexity. I have the impression that several vernacular epigraphical traditions (maybe Sanskrit epigraphical traditions too) in the second millennium CE (maybe earlier too) rather frequently present persons with the title senaapati as protagonist, with no other title (in some regions not even royal titles) coming close in terms of frequency. I have thus far seen inscriptions in Old Malay, Old Cam and Tamil, of the 11th-13th centuries, where senaapatis are the main actors in the events/transactions recorded. My question is: are we to imagine that these were all military men in a literal sense? Or may we imagine a militaristic model of the state where even those high functionaries who were not actually ever leading armies were nevertheless awarded military titles? I would appreciate references to discussions of the status of senaapatis in individual parts of South and Southeast Asia or --- even better --- discussions transcending regional/linguistic boundaries. Many thanks. Arlo Griffiths EFEO/Jakarta -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ashok.aklujkar at UBC.CA Thu Sep 22 15:21:50 2011 From: ashok.aklujkar at UBC.CA (Ashok Aklujkar) Date: Thu, 22 Sep 11 08:21:50 -0700 Subject: senaapati In-Reply-To: <4599_1316673442_1316673442_BLU155-W49084EB4AAF7DB2B41E69A50C0@phx.gbl> Message-ID: <161227093901.23782.1307036649297592773.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Dear Arlo, As I recall, the title senaa-pati is used for Pu.sya-mitra ;Su:nga even when he had become a de facto ruler. ashok aklujkar On 2011-09-21, at 11:37 PM, Arlo Griffiths wrote: > are we to imagine that these were all military men in a literal sense? Or may we imagine a militaristic model of the state where even those high functionaries who were not actually ever leading armies were nevertheless awarded military titles? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ashok.aklujkar at UBC.CA Thu Sep 22 16:15:46 2011 From: ashok.aklujkar at UBC.CA (Ashok Aklujkar) Date: Thu, 22 Sep 11 09:15:46 -0700 Subject: senaapati In-Reply-To: <4599_1316673442_1316673442_BLU155-W49084EB4AAF7DB2B41E69A50C0@phx.gbl> Message-ID: <161227093905.23782.14551606514706857860.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> The basis for my recalling is Kaali-daasa's Maalavikagnimitra, prose passage before verse 5.15. Dear Arlo, As I recall, the title senaa-pati is used for Pu.sya-mitra ;Su:nga even when he had become a de facto ruler. ashok aklujkar On 2011-09-21, at 11:37 PM, Arlo Griffiths wrote: > are we to imagine that these were all military men in a literal sense? Or may we imagine a militaristic model of the state where even those high functionaries who were not actually ever leading armies were nevertheless awarded military titles? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jean-luc.chevillard at UNIV-PARIS-DIDEROT.FR Thu Sep 22 16:40:38 2011 From: jean-luc.chevillard at UNIV-PARIS-DIDEROT.FR (Jean-Luc CHEVILLARD) Date: Thu, 22 Sep 11 18:40:38 +0200 Subject: senaapati Message-ID: <161227093908.23782.15837801997817770974.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Dear Arlo, for what it is worth, let me reproduce (as well as I can in 7-bit mode) one entry from the tamil_k kalvet.t.uc collakaraati (vol. 1) (dated 2002) [published by SANTI SADHANA, chennai -- 600 028] [edited by Y. Subbarayalu] p. 268 ceen_aapati (pe) pat.aittalaivar (771) ippras'asti paat.in_a ceen_aapati (EI, xvii, 16.); (1000) kot.umpaal.uur ut.aiyaan_ ceen_apatikal. maturaantaka vil.an;koo ... (SII, xvii, 509) Cheers -- Jean-Luc P.S. and or course, I am wondering how much that has to do with my favorite tolkaappiyam commentator (ceen_aavaraiyar) ******************************** On 22/09/2011 08:37, Arlo Griffiths wrote: > Dear colleagues, > > Allow me to pose a question about a phenomenon that I am probably not > yet grasping in its full extent and complexity. I have the impression > that several vernacular epigraphical traditions (maybe Sanskrit > epigraphical traditions too) in the second millennium CE (maybe earlier > too) rather frequently present persons with the title senaapati as > protagonist, with no other title (in some regions not even royal titles) > coming close in terms of frequency. I have thus far seen inscriptions in > Old Malay, Old Cam and Tamil, of the 11th-13th centuries, where > senaapatis are the main actors in the events/transactions recorded. > > My question is: are we to imagine that these were all military men in a > literal sense? Or may we imagine a militaristic model of the state where > even those high functionaries who were not actually ever leading armies > were nevertheless awarded military titles? > > I would appreciate references to discussions of the status of senaapatis > in individual parts of South and Southeast Asia or --- even better --- > discussions transcending regional/linguistic boundaries. > > Many thanks. > > Arlo Griffiths > EFEO/Jakarta > > From ashok.aklujkar at UBC.CA Sun Sep 25 05:57:38 2011 From: ashok.aklujkar at UBC.CA (Ashok Aklujkar) Date: Sat, 24 Sep 11 22:57:38 -0700 Subject: For those interested in Sanskrit grammars and related study areas Message-ID: <161227093914.23782.6935569385361967428.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Studies in Sanskrit Grammars: Proceedings of the Vyakarana Section of the 14th World Sanskrit Conference Edited by George Cardona, Ashok Aklujkar, Hideyo Ogawa New Delhi: D.K. Printworld 2012 [already available from the publisher] ISBN 13; 978-81-246-0608-7 ISBN 10: 81-246-0608-0 Rs 995.00, US$39.00 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From arlogriffiths at HOTMAIL.COM Sat Sep 24 23:35:40 2011 From: arlogriffiths at HOTMAIL.COM (Arlo Griffiths) Date: Sat, 24 Sep 11 23:35:40 +0000 Subject: senaapati In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227093911.23782.10172636031680063597.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Thank you Jean-Luc and Ashok! (And thanks to Gergely Hidas and Christian Lammerts for answering off-list.) Best wishes, Arlo > Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2011 18:40:38 +0200 > From: jean-luc.chevillard at UNIV-PARIS-DIDEROT.FR > Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] senaapati > To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk > > Dear Arlo, > > for what it is worth, > let me reproduce > (as well as I can in 7-bit mode) > one entry from the > tamil_k kalvet.t.uc > collakaraati > (vol. 1) > (dated 2002) > > [published by > SANTI SADHANA, > chennai -- 600 028] > > [edited by Y. Subbarayalu] > > > p. 268 > > ceen_aapati (pe) pat.aittalaivar (771) > ippras'asti paat.in_a ceen_aapati > (EI, xvii, 16.); (1000) kot.umpaal.uur ut.aiyaan_ > ceen_apatikal. maturaantaka vil.an;koo ... > (SII, xvii, 509) > > Cheers > > -- Jean-Luc > > P.S. and or course, > I am wondering how much that has to do with my favorite > tolkaappiyam commentator (ceen_aavaraiyar) > > > > ******************************** > > On 22/09/2011 08:37, Arlo Griffiths wrote: > > Dear colleagues, > > > > Allow me to pose a question about a phenomenon that I am probably not > > yet grasping in its full extent and complexity. I have the impression > > that several vernacular epigraphical traditions (maybe Sanskrit > > epigraphical traditions too) in the second millennium CE (maybe earlier > > too) rather frequently present persons with the title senaapati as > > protagonist, with no other title (in some regions not even royal titles) > > coming close in terms of frequency. I have thus far seen inscriptions in > > Old Malay, Old Cam and Tamil, of the 11th-13th centuries, where > > senaapatis are the main actors in the events/transactions recorded. > > > > My question is: are we to imagine that these were all military men in a > > literal sense? Or may we imagine a militaristic model of the state where > > even those high functionaries who were not actually ever leading armies > > were nevertheless awarded military titles? > > > > I would appreciate references to discussions of the status of senaapatis > > in individual parts of South and Southeast Asia or --- even better --- > > discussions transcending regional/linguistic boundaries. > > > > Many thanks. > > > > Arlo Griffiths > > EFEO/Jakarta > > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ssandahl at SYMPATICO.CA Sun Sep 25 19:49:20 2011 From: ssandahl at SYMPATICO.CA (Stella Sandahl) Date: Sun, 25 Sep 11 15:49:20 -0400 Subject: Looking for students? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227093925.23782.14119624371742260169.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Dear Jean-Luc, I fail to see the relevance of your "bold" question. The fact is, I think, that fewer and fewer students want to take up Indian, especially classical Indian studies on a graduate level, since the job market is very restricted. It doesn't matter into which category the students happen to fall. Another sad fact is that more and more universities are into the numbers' game, i.e. the administrative authorities want to see large(r) classes, even on a graduate level. I believe that is what Dominik is implying. Best Stella -- Professor Stella Sandahl Department of East Asian Studies 130 St. George St. room 14087 Toronto, ON M5S 3H1 ssandahl at sympatico.ca stella.sandahl at utoronto.ca Tel. (416) 978-4295 Fax. (416) 978-5711 On 25-Sep-11, at 3:04 PM, Jean-Luc CHEVILLARD wrote: > Dear Dominik, > > since this is a very bold statement, > let me ask one bold question: > > When you say "students", are you thinking of: > > *A* indian students (who have had their primary education in India)? > > Or are you thinking of non-indian students, > > *B* who have had their primary education in Europe, in the USA, in > Canada, etc and > > *C* some of whom might come from Indian migrant communities. > > A, B and C > all have VERY different requirements > and it is important to think about the resemblances and the > differences > in what they might expect from "guides" or from "compagnons de route" > (i.e. fellow researchers, having some seniority ;-) > > Cheers > > -- Jean-Luc (currently in Paris) > > > On 25/09/2011 20:31, Dominik Wujastyk wrote: >> In a blog, a colleague suggested that in this INDOLOGY forum most >> of us would not be willing to say publicly that we are looking for >> students (at the MA or PhD level, for example). >> Is this true? >> Best, >> Dominik > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From wujastyk at GMAIL.COM Sun Sep 25 18:31:56 2011 From: wujastyk at GMAIL.COM (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Sun, 25 Sep 11 20:31:56 +0200 Subject: Looking for students? Message-ID: <161227093918.23782.12743934406842728769.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> In a blog, a colleague suggested that in this INDOLOGY forum most of us would not be willing to say publicly that we are looking for students (at the MA or PhD level, for example). Is this true? Best, Dominik -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jean-luc.chevillard at UNIV-PARIS-DIDEROT.FR Sun Sep 25 19:04:29 2011 From: jean-luc.chevillard at UNIV-PARIS-DIDEROT.FR (Jean-Luc CHEVILLARD) Date: Sun, 25 Sep 11 21:04:29 +0200 Subject: Looking for students? Message-ID: <161227093921.23782.16518738516400277516.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Dear Dominik, since this is a very bold statement, let me ask one bold question: When you say "students", are you thinking of: *A* indian students (who have had their primary education in India)? Or are you thinking of non-indian students, *B* who have had their primary education in Europe, in the USA, in Canada, etc and *C* some of whom might come from Indian migrant communities. A, B and C all have VERY different requirements and it is important to think about the resemblances and the differences in what they might expect from "guides" or from "compagnons de route" (i.e. fellow researchers, having some seniority ;-) Cheers -- Jean-Luc (currently in Paris) On 25/09/2011 20:31, Dominik Wujastyk wrote: > In a blog, a colleague suggested that in this INDOLOGY forum most of us > would not be willing to say publicly that we are looking for students > (at the MA or PhD level, for example). > > Is this true? > > Best, > Dominik From richard.gombrich at BALLIOL.OX.AC.UK Sun Sep 25 20:56:45 2011 From: richard.gombrich at BALLIOL.OX.AC.UK (Richard Gombrich) Date: Sun, 25 Sep 11 21:56:45 +0100 Subject: Looking for students? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227093928.23782.18348004083178619378.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> I am ALWAYS looking for students, provided that they are enthusiastic and qualified. (By "qualified" I mainly mean: know enough English.) Unfortunately I am no longer in a position, being retired, to ensure that they are accepted by Oxford University; but we can accept them at the Oxford Centre for Buddhist Studies. This means that we cannot award them degrees; but we can still teach them! (And what costs the money is mainly the degree, not the teaching.) Richard Gombrich On 25 Sep 2011, at 19:31, Dominik Wujastyk wrote: > In a blog, a colleague suggested that in this INDOLOGY forum most of us would not be willing to say publicly that we are looking for students (at the MA or PhD level, for example). > > Is this true? > > Best, > Dominik From mrinalkaul81 at GMAIL.COM Mon Sep 26 20:10:10 2011 From: mrinalkaul81 at GMAIL.COM (Mrinal Kaul) Date: Mon, 26 Sep 11 16:10:10 -0400 Subject: Expert on Kashmir Architecture Message-ID: <161227093932.23782.14204845957589260728.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Dear Indologists, I was being asked by the Jammu & Kashmir Chapter of the Indian National Trust for Art and Cultural Heritage (INTACH) if I know of some expert on the ancient and medieval architecture of Kashmir. I don't think I know many scholars except Professor Pratapaditya Pal and Professor Walter Slaje. Any suggestions would be highly appreciated. Thanks in advance. Best wishes. Mrinal Kaul From slaje at T-ONLINE.DE Tue Sep 27 15:02:43 2011 From: slaje at T-ONLINE.DE (Walter Slaje) Date: Tue, 27 Sep 11 17:02:43 +0200 Subject: Expert on Kashmir Architecture In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227093935.23782.1660184498400051688.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Dear Mrinal Kaul, as it happens, I am just in the valley in continuation of my topographical studies and may safely say that I have hardly left out any site on this side of the Line of Control, which might be of historical interest in connection with my beloved medieval Rajatarangini authors. So what I have to state is to be taken as an eyewitness report. My impression of the present situation in a nutshell, as I am running out of email time: Pre-Islamic monuments have either been 1) converted into Muslim shrines, renamed, and their use has been accordingly changed, 2) or walled and used by the army, 3) or have been left to decay, 4) or have been subjected to an amateurish attempt at restoration, which has generally done more harm than good. 5) With very few exceptions there are no descriptions to identify the nature of pre-Islamic sites or temples. The ordinary visitor must be very good at guessing. 6) The state of the conservation, the cataloguing and above all of the description of pieces of prime importance in the Sri Pratap Singh Museum in Srinagar really causes tears to well in one's eyes. The initiative of the INTACH is certainly as laudable as it is overdue. A close cooperation with a qualified art historian is indispensable. Professor Klimburg-Salter (Vienna) comes to my mind (deborah.klimburg-salter at univie.ac.at). I regret that I lack entirely any qualification for art history. As regards scholarly reliable studies in the field of Kashmiri art history, I think that Hermann Goetz is still the one to begin with: Studies in the History and Art of Kashmir and the Indian Himalaya. [Schriftenreihe des S?dasien-Instituts der Universit?t Heidelberg. 4] Wiesbaden 1969. Good luck, and very best wishes, Walter Slaje ------------------------------ Prof. Dr. Walter Slaje Hermann-L?ns-Str. 1 D-99425 Weimar (Germany) www.indologie.uni-halle.de Ego ex animi mei sententia spondeo ac polliceor studia humanitatis impigro labore culturum et provecturum non sordidi lucri causa nec ad vanam captandam gloriam, sed quo magis veritas propagetur et lux eius, qua salus humani generis continetur, clarius effulgeat. Vindobonae, die XXI. mensis Novembris MCMLXXXIII. From mkapstei at UCHICAGO.EDU Wed Sep 28 20:59:16 2011 From: mkapstei at UCHICAGO.EDU (mkapstei at UCHICAGO.EDU) Date: Wed, 28 Sep 11 15:59:16 -0500 Subject: Expert on Kashmir Architecture In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227093938.23782.3467575748430560356.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Dear Dr. Kaul, A few years back Madame Kapila Vatsyayana gave an interesting lecture in Paris on Hindu temples in Kashmir. I am not sure if she has published anything about it yet, but you may wish to try to contact her. (I regret that I do not have her contact information at hand.) Perhaps this might be of some help. Sincerely, Matthew T. Kapstein Numata Visiting Professor of Buddhist Studies The University of Chicago Divinity School Directeur d'?tudes Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes, Paris From ashok.aklujkar at UBC.CA Wed Sep 28 23:37:30 2011 From: ashok.aklujkar at UBC.CA (Ashok Aklujkar) Date: Wed, 28 Sep 11 16:37:30 -0700 Subject: A query re. aa;sviina as a measurement Message-ID: <161227093941.23782.4124310247431086385.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> The dictionaries give aa;sviina as a measurement of distance: 'distance traveled by a horse, that is, by a horse-rider, in one day.' Saaya.na in his commentary of Pa;nca-vi.m;sa-braahma.na clarifies that a twenty-four hour day, ahoraatra, is meant in this context. Has anyone of you come across a statement expressing ancient understanding, especially ancient Indian understanding, of how much distance a horse/mare being normally ridden covered, assuming that the horse/mare did not stop? (In actual practice, a horse/mare could have been changed at certain stops, but this possibility is obviously to be ignored in associating a distance with aa;sviina.) ashok aklujkar From palaniappa at AOL.COM Thu Sep 29 05:17:55 2011 From: palaniappa at AOL.COM (Sudalaimuthu Palaniappan) Date: Thu, 29 Sep 11 01:17:55 -0400 Subject: A query on OCR for Sanskrit or Tamil Message-ID: <161227093944.23782.7912436855556379672.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Dear Indologists, I got the following query from a friend. ------------------------------------------------------------------- I saw a book on Srimad Bhagavatam which is out of print now. This book has Sanskrit slokas, Tamil transliteration and word for word meanings. Do you know if one can scan this book and convert to digital files using Optical Character Recognition? ------------------------------------------------------------------------- I would appreciate any information on OCR for either Sanskrit or Tamil. Thanks in advance Regards, Palaniappan -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From juergen.neuss at FU-BERLIN.DE Thu Sep 29 09:04:40 2011 From: juergen.neuss at FU-BERLIN.DE (=?utf-8?Q?J=C3=BCrgen_Neuss?=) Date: Thu, 29 Sep 11 11:04:40 +0200 Subject: A query on OCR for Sanskrit or Tamil In-Reply-To: <8CE4C7E475E4BF2-788-C4575@Webmail-d121.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <161227093947.23782.2593948099385793541.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> dear palaniappan, i have some experience in ocr for nagari. the only way to read nagari texts for a long time was to use finereader (www.abbyy.com) and train it to nagari characters, which was a tedious procedure. as finereader was developed for latin characters (or, at least, for characters which are separated by spaces, [not sharing a rekhA]) the result needed thorough further correction. problematic were also the superscript mAtrAs e, ai, o, au which are ambiguous for ocr-engines. still, finereader yielded the best results compared to other ocr software at least according to my experience. but it can be used only for one script at a time and not for mixed script, i.e. you have first to train and recognize nagari, then tamil and so on and finally merge the results manually. now, however, there is a far better specialized program for devanagari, which was developed by a colleague, Dr. Oliver Hellwig (www.indsenz.com). There are two versions, one for Sanskrit and one for Hindi, which include an automatic proof-reading function. I have worked a lot with both versions and the program reads texts with amazing accuracy. If the pictures you are processing are of good quality the accuracy can be more than 99%. Text output is in Unicode UTF-8, nagari, and the document comes in .rtf-format, which can be further processed with the word-processor of your choice. I hope this helps. best regards jn -- ???????????????????????????????????????????????? Dr. J?rgen Neu? Freie Universit?t Berlin Institut f?r die Sprachen und Kulturen S?dasiens K?nigin-Luise-Str. 34 a D-14195 Berlin ?????????????????????????? juergen.neuss at fu-berlin.de From athr at LOC.GOV Thu Sep 29 15:40:56 2011 From: athr at LOC.GOV (Thrasher, Allen) Date: Thu, 29 Sep 11 11:40:56 -0400 Subject: Talk on Library of Congress collections on Maldives Message-ID: <161227093950.23782.2772048888868854693.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> The Asian Division of the Library of Congress presents: Aminath Riyaz Florence Tan Moeson Fellow Chief Librarian, University Library, Maldives National University, Mal?, Maldives "The Maldives as Portrayed in the Library of Congress Collections" Asian Division Foyer, 12:00-1:00 PM, Friday, September 30, 2011 LJ-150, Jefferson Building, Library of Congress, 101 Independence Ave., SE, Washington DC [Metro Stop: Capitol South on the Blue/Orange Line] Contact: Allen Thrasher, Tel: 202-707-3732, E-mail: athr at loc.gov. Request ADA accommodation five business days in advance. Contact 202-707-6862 or ada at loc.gov. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From wujastyk at GMAIL.COM Thu Sep 29 20:13:27 2011 From: wujastyk at GMAIL.COM (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Fri, 30 Sep 11 01:43:27 +0530 Subject: Expert on Kashmir Architecture In-Reply-To: <20110928155916.ASR84774@mstore02.uchicago.edu> Message-ID: <161227093953.23782.12366413094866075779.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> I happened to be in the IGNCA, New Delhi, today and was chatting with Dr Virendra Bangroo (virendrabangroo at gmail.com). He has published on the architecture of the Kashmir Valley. See, e.g., http://www.cultorweb.com/Kashmir/KC.html, and http://ignca.nic.in/bangru01.htm etc. Dominik On 29 September 2011 02:29, wrote: > Dear Dr. Kaul, > > A few years back Madame Kapila Vatsyayana > gave an interesting lecture in Paris on > Hindu temples in Kashmir. I am not sure if > she has published anything about it yet, but > you may wish to try to contact her. (I regret that I do not > have her contact information at hand.) > > Perhaps this might be of some help. > > Sincerely, > > Matthew T. Kapstein > Numata Visiting Professor of Buddhist Studies > The University of Chicago Divinity School > Directeur d'?tudes > Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes, Paris > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: