Fw: Re: [INDOLOGY] Vai.s.navaantara"suudraa.h and the like

Ganesan ganesan at IFPINDIA.ORG
Fri Mar 11 06:45:15 UTC 2011

Regarding Vai.s.nava "suudra-s in the Vaikhanasa system one may not find 
anything. For, the vaishnavism propounded in the Vaikhanasa Agama-s is 
exclusively meant for Brahmains. Most probably the reason being, the 
Vaikhaanasa Agama is claimed to be based on the Aukheya "saakhaa (now 
extinct ?) of the Yajurveda. Of course there exists a Vaikhanasa 
mantrapra"sna just as there is the aapastambamantrapra"sna which is fully 
used by them for all their domestic rites.
Further, a vaikhanasa is born by the sacrament called vi.s.nubali performed 
during pregnancy and not 'made' by diik.saa as in the case of Paa~ncaraatra 
system. These are the fundamental differences between these two branches of 
Vaishnava religion. Therefore there cannot be theoretically any 
vai.s.navaanta"suudra or vai.s.nva"suudra in the vaikhaanasa.
With the best wishes,

Senior Researcher in Saivasiddhanta
French Institute of Pondicherry
11, St. Louis Street
P.B. 33  PONDICHERRY-605001
Tel: +91 - 413 - 233 4168 ext. 123
E mail: ganesan at ifpindia.org
Web: www.ifpindia.org
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Dipak Bhattacharya" <dbhattacharya200498 at YAHOO.COM>
To: <INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk>
Sent: Friday, March 11, 2011 11:20 AM
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Fw: Re: [INDOLOGY] Vai.s.navaantara"suudraa.h and the 

--- On Fri, 11/3/11, Dipak Bhattacharya <dbhattacharya200498 at yahoo.com> 

From: Dipak Bhattacharya <dbhattacharya200498 at yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] Vai.s.navaantara"suudraa.h and the like
To: "TimLubin" <lubint at WLU.EDU>
Date: Friday, 11 March, 2011, 5:34 AM

The work I meant is a Vaikhānasa text of encyclopaedic
nature dealing, inter alia, on settlements and temple construction, 
as Kāśyapajñānakāṇḍaḥ(Kāśyapasaṃhitā), ed PārthasārathiBhaṭṭācārya
Tirupati1948. I rummaged through at random and unsuccessfully for caste



--- On Wed, 9/3/11, Lubin, Tim <lubint at WLU.EDU> wrote:

From: Lubin, Tim <lubint at WLU.EDU>
Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] Vai.s.navaantara"suudraa.h and the like
To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk
Date: Wednesday, 9 March, 2011, 5:47 PM

Thank you Dipak. Although I do not think there is any connection between the 
Kasyapottarasa?hita in hand and the medical text called Kasyapasa?hita (if 
that’s what you refer to), I have checked the latter, and found nothing. 
Elsewhere in the Kasyapottara itself, so far as I have read, no similar list 
appear, and a word search of the corpus of Unicode Skt texts on my computer 
shows no occurrences of, e.g., of strings beginning saivantar, vai??avantar, 
sudrantar, and the like. So it remains rather anomalous.

As I said, I can simply guess
 that Vai??avantarasudra would mean something like Vai??avasudra manqué, 
with -antara = ‘other’ in the sense of ‘lesser’, but I still wonder if there 
is any precedent or parallels for such an expression.


From: Dipak Bhattacharya [mailto:dbhattacharya200498 at yahoo.com]
Sent: Wednesday, March 09, 2011 5:24 AM
To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk; Lubin, Tim
Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] Vai.s.navaantara"suudraa.h and the like

The word -antara meaning 'others' in a compound usually refers to variants, 
extras etc. One has to check if a supplementary list is concerned where it 
will be appropriate to term the new entries as such. Will you check if any 
list of ;Suudras of the Vai.s.nava-, ;Saiva- etc. varieties has already been
 mentioned? I shall check the Kaa;syapa-Sa.mhitaa itself. Perhaps, you too 
can yourself do that. But i will.

--- On Mon, 7/3/11, Lubin, Tim <lubint at WLU..EDU> wrote:

From: Lubin, Tim <lubint at WLU.EDU>
Subject: [INDOLOGY] Vai.s.navaantara"suudraa.h and the like
To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk
Date: Monday, 7 March, 2011, 3:21 PM
Dear all,

Reading the (unpublished) Kaa"syapottarasa.mhitaa (adhyaaya 18), I have been 
puzzling over the precise implications of some categories of "Suudra 
described therein, categories including the suffix -antara, as follows (in 
descending rank order):
Vai.s.nava vs. Vai.s.navaantara,
"Saiva vs.
Saamaanya vs. Saamaanyaantara,
Sa.mkara vs. Sa.mkaraantara.

An initial round of searches has not yielded any parallels that would 
suggest what distinguishes, e.g.., a 'Vai.s.navaantara"suudra' from a 
'Vai.s.nava"suudra'. The text itself is not really explicit, except to 
suggest that the Vai.s.navaantara is a lower status. In this case, the lower 
status may be implicitly attributable to association with "Saivas (despite 
having received the sa.mskaaras taught in the Puraa.nas and Paa~ncaraatra 
"saastras, noted in the preceding stanza): 
"saivaagamoktasa.mskaarisambandha.m samavaapya ca | svaya.m ced vai.s.navas 
ti.s.thed vai.s.navaantara iirita.h ||

Have others encountered similar status-titles in other works? Does 
'X-antara' simply imply 'a lesser' or 'not quite an' X?

Tim Lubin


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