FW: [INDOLOGY] order of letters
hwtull at MSN.COM
Wed May 19 16:47:22 UTC 2010
Dear Prof. Deshpande:
Thank you for this information; it is extremely helpful. Most modern
grammars simply ignore this.
From: "Deshpande, Madhav" <mmdesh at UMICH.EDU>
Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2010 11:26 AM
To: <INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk>
Subject: [INDOLOGY] FW: [INDOLOGY] order of letters
> Dear Colleagues,
> Even the great Panini did not include the sounds (anusvāra, visarga,
> jihvāmūlīya, upadhmānīya and the so-called yamas) in his Śivasūtras. They
> are called ayogavāha sounds. The tradition incorporates them in two
> places in the Śivasūtras (so that they can be included in the two separate
> pratyāhāras: aṭ and śal). The jihvāmūlīya and upadhmānīya are lost in
> most common writing forms, and are expressly lost in some Vedic schools
> like the Mādhyandina Yajurveda. The two surviving sounds, the anusvāra
> and visarga are conventionally accommodated at the end of vowels and
> represented as aṃ and aḥ. This lack of a fixed location for these sounds
> has created a free-for-all pattern in modern dictionaries.
> Madhav M. Deshpande
> From: Indology [INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Elena Bashir
> [ebashir at UCHICAGO.EDU]
> Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2010 10:02 AM
> To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk
> Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] order of letters
> This would seem to be an important issue for electronic dictionaries -
> in connection sorting and searching.
> On 5/19/2010 8:38 AM, Herman Tull wrote:
>> I am putting together some simple rules for first year students. In
>> dealing with the order of the letters, there is the ever present
>> confusion over the placement of anusvAra and visarga. I notice that
>> Monier Williams and Macdonell are consistent in their placement of the
>> anusvara (placing it after the vowels when it precedes the semi-vowels
>> or the sibilants). But, they seem not to agree on the placement of
>> the visarga. Macdonell follows the rule that he states in his student
>> grammar (p. 3), that the visarga follows the vowels when it precedes
>> "k" and "p" and that it when it precedes a sibilant it is placed in
>> the consonantal order of the sibilants. E.g., on p. 17 of his
>> dictionary he has an article for antaH-ka... and then on p. 18 he has
>> the article for antaH-sa...
>> Monier-Williams, on the other hand, combines this all into one article
>> (p. 43, "antaH"), and so does not distinguish between visarga before
>> "k" and "p" on the one hand, and before the sibilants on the other,
>> treating all of it as if it precedes "antar" (which seems incorrect,
>> since antaH-sa would not precede antar according to the rule).
>> A small matter (especially with the advent of the electronic
>> dictionary), perhaps, but can anyone shed light on this?
>> Herman Tull
> E. Bashir, Ph.D., Senior Lecturer in Urdu
> Department of South Asian Languages and Civilizations
> The University of Chicago, Foster 212
> 1130 E. 59th St.
> Chicago, IL 60637
> Phone: 773-702-8632
> Fax: 773-834-3254
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