expectation (Re: Anyone heard of a flower called "aniccam?")

[rajam]

The work by the young engineer at http://karkanirka.wordpress.com/ 
2010/03/15/99tamilflowers_slideshow/
is excellent, informative, and educative. In fact, my initial query  
originated there.

  /Unfortunately, it does not give names in Sanskrit and other Indian  
languages,/

Just a naive / un-harmful question: But why do we have such  
expectation -- for "names in Sanskrit" to be available?


On Mar 23, 2010, at 11:02 AM, George Hart wrote:

> Aruppalam might be from aruphala.  Aru, according to Apte, is  
> "rakta khadira," but unfortunately he doesn't define it.  Kittel  
> says it is a plant and says it is "meṇasige," but that is not  
> defined either.  Khadira by itself is acacia catechu, and rakta  
> khadira might be an acacia tree with red flowers.  Acacia arabica  
> (which is native to India)?  (see http://www.exogarden.nl/palmzaden/ 
> images/acacia-arabica.jpg).  The leaves of this are small, gentle  
> and fernlike and could possibly be said to retreat when touched.   
> In any case, this is all speculation -- it points up how difficult  
> it can be to identify botanical names in old Indian texts.
>
> For a list (with pictures and recitation) of the flowers in the  
> Kuṟiñcippāṭṭu (63-95), see
>
> http://karkanirka.wordpress.com/2010/03/15/99tamilflowers_slideshow/
>
> This is a wonderful website and gives some very useful  
> information.  Unfortunately, it does not give names in Sanskrit and  
> other Indian languages, but it does give Latin names and so can be  
> used if you know the botanical name of a flower.  George Hart
>
> On Mar 23, 2010, at 8:54 AM, Dipak Bhattacharya wrote:
>
>> aruṣpānam is a healing herbal in the Atharvaveda, probably a  
>> mountain plant likely to be growing in the Lesser Himalayas. But  
>> the Orissa manuscripts read arusyānam.
>>
>>
>> --- On Tue, 23/3/10, George Hart <glhart at BERKELEY.EDU> wrote:
>>
>>
>> From: George Hart <glhart at BERKELEY.EDU>
>> Subject: Re: Anyone heard of a flower called "aniccam?"
>> To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk
>> Date: Tuesday, 23 March, 2010, 8:50 PM
>>
>>
>> Apparently another name of the aṉiccam is aruppalam, which looks  
>> as if it could be have a Prakrit or Sanskrit origin (arpala,  
>> rupala?) but I can't find anything in those languages.  G. Hart
>>
>> On Mar 21, 2010, at 11:38 PM, Dipak Bhattacharya wrote:
>>
>>> Is it still common? The lajjaavatii or laajawantii was very  
>>> common along rail tracks even in the seventies. But since its  
>>> arrival, allegedly from Canada in 1973, the parthenium has spread  
>>> like wild fire along the ancient EIR route and the parallel Grand  
>>> Trunk Road destroying the common lajjaavatii.
>>> Best
>>> DB
>>>
>>> --- On Mon, 22/3/10, venetia ansell <venetia.ansell at GMAIL.COM>  
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> From: venetia ansell <venetia.ansell at GMAIL.COM>
>>> Subject: Re: Anyone heard of a flower called "aniccam?"
>>> To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk
>>> Date: Monday, 22 March, 2010, 11:40 AM
>>>
>>>
>>> Mimosa pudica is certainly very common in Karnataka - it's called  
>>> chhui mui
>>> in Hindi, mutthidaremuni in Kannada I think, and lajjaa (as in  
>>> bashfulness)
>>> in Sanskrit.
>>>
>>> On Mon, Mar 22, 2010 at 10:07 AM, Dipak Bhattacharya <
>>> dbhattacharya2004 at yahoo.co.in> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Mimosa pudica is Thottalvadi in Tamil not aniccam.
>>>> Best
>>>> DB
>>>>
>>>> --- On Mon, 22/3/10, Dominic Goodall <dominic.goodall at GMAIL.COM>  
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> From: Dominic Goodall <dominic.goodall at GMAIL.COM>
>>>> Subject: Re: Anyone heard of a flower called "aniccam?"
>>>> To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk
>>>> Date: Monday, 22 March, 2010, 9:01 AM
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> This reminds me that in the hills in the South today one finds  
>>>> plenty of
>>>> Mimosa pudica, whose leaves temporarily fold up the second that  
>>>> you touch
>>>> them, or indeed blow on them.
>>>>
>>>> But I am not sure how long these plants have been growing there,  
>>>> for the
>>>> Pandanus website (http://iu.ff.cuni.cz/pandanus/database/),
>>>> quoting Dymock, Warden, Hooper: Pharmacographia Indica, vol. I, pp.
>>>> 538-539, calls Mimosa pudica a "native of Brazil long  
>>>> naturalized in India".
>>>>
>>>> Dominic Goodall
>>>>
>>>> On 21 Mar 2010, at 21:39, Michael Witzel wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> The whole discussion (here and in Tamil) reminded me of the little
>>>> yellow  flower,  called 'noli me tangere' "don't touch me!" in  
>>>> Latin.
>>>>>
>>>>> For some details see: <http://www.aboutflowers.org/ 
>>>>> giantbalsamim_xal.htm>
>>>> (also in N. India)
>>>>>
>>>>> (Leaves of certain trees also do that: they fold on touch).
>>>>>
>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>> MW
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Mar 21, 2010, at 11:54 AM, rajam wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Dear Whitney,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The poems don't indicate that the flower perishes, though. The  
>>>>>> emphasis
>>>> is on its delicateness, softness, and gentleness. So I wonder  
>>>> whether the
>>>> flower's "reflex" action ("to wilt" when someone smells it)  
>>>> fascinated the
>>>> poet. Maybe one could find a similar flower somewhere -- I hope!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks and regards,
>>>>>> VSR
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Mar 21, 2010, at 1:18 AM, Whitney Cox wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Dear Rajam,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> In line with your observation that the flower is supposedly  
>>>>>>> "super
>>>>>>> sensitive", it seems possible to me that the derivation of  
>>>>>>> the name
>>>>>>> might be from a-nitya ("impermanent," "perishable"), rather than
>>>>>>> an+icchā (I see that the MTL, p. 191 thinks the same thing).   
>>>>>>> However,
>>>>>>> I don't know of any flower called anitya in Sanskrit.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Best regards,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Whitney
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 21 March 2010 06:00, rajam <rajam at earthlink.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>> Has anyone on this list come across a plant/flower type named
>>>> "aniccha" in
>>>>>>>> any non-Tamil literature?
>>>>>>>> Has anyone seen it (in person or in a picture)?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> "Aniccam" is listed just as a flower in early Tamil poetry.  
>>>>>>>> Later on,
>>>> the
>>>>>>>> focus is on the flower's super sensitivity--about how it  
>>>>>>>> would wilt at
>>>> the
>>>>>>>> contact of human breath, how it would harm a woman [with a  
>>>>>>>> slender
>>>> waist] if
>>>>>>>> she wears the flower without removing its stem, ... and so on.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> There is a thought that the term "anicca" is derived thus: a  
>>>>>>>> + iccha
>>>> (a +
>>>>>>>> icchaa - Without Desire/Wish).
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> What is your thought? Are there similar flowers extolled in  
>>>>>>>> non-Tamil
>>>> poetry
>>>>>>>> for such super sensitivity?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Thanks and regards,
>>>>>>>> V.S. Rajam
>>>>>>>> < (www.letsgrammar.org)>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Dr. Whitney Cox
>>>>>>> Department of the Languages and Cultures of South Asia,
>>>>>>> School of Oriental and African Studies
>>>>>>> Thornhaugh Street, Russell Square
>>>>>>> London WC1H 0XG
>>>>>
>>>>> ============
>>>>> Michael Witzel
>>>>> witzel at fas.harvard.edu
>>>>> <www.fas.harvard.edu/~witzel/mwpage.htm>
>>>>>
>>>>> Dept. of Sanskrit & Indian Studies, Harvard University
>>>>> 1 Bow Street,
>>>>> Cambridge MA 02138, USA
>>>>>
>>>>> phone: 1- 617 - 495 3295, 496 8570, fax 617 - 496 8571;
>>>>> my direct line:  617- 496 2990
>>>>
>>>>
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