From rdavidson at FAIRFIELD.EDU  Mon Mar  1 12:40:33 2010
From: rdavidson at FAIRFIELD.EDU (Ronald Davidson)
Date: Mon, 01 Mar 10 07:40:33 -0500
Subject: Wendy Doniger under attack again
In-Reply-To: <40B29EC5-75FF-40B8-91E5-403DD45A4D5D@berkeley.edu>
Message-ID: <161227088736.23782.5217392973696245406.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

If one examines the names of petitioners, it is clear that at least part of
the impetus for this is drawn from the neo-Vedic crowd that operates under
the WAVES umbrella: http://www.waves-india.com/index.html

Conspicuous (#4 among the petition signers) is T.R. Narasimha Rao, who
chaired the 13th WAVES conference in Dec. 2009 in New Delhi.  He's a
computer scientist at the Center for Advanced Computer Studies, University
of Louisiana, Lafayette, and apparently an emblem of the activism of brahman
NRI-s who have embraced their heritage through the lens of modern Hindutva,
but with the added leverage of contemporary Indian fascination with American
institutions. The document they published on Google.docs
(http://tinyurl.com/yjs3vo3) is a classic statement of their position.

Ronald Davidson
Fairfield University



> From: Michael Slouber <mjslouber at BERKELEY.EDU>
> Reply-To: Indology <INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk>
> Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2010 11:48:06 +0100
> To: <INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk>
> Subject: Re: Wendy Doniger under attack again
> 
> If you follow the links, they do have a list of examples:
> <http://www.petitiononline.com/dharma10/petition.htm>.
> 
> One problem for the petitioners is that they don't give references for their
> claims, they just say "it is very well known" and "widely considered" and so
> on.  Their grievances may have merit, I don't know, but the way they are
> presented won't be taken seriously.
> 
> Michael Slouber
> 
> 
> 
> On Mar 1, 2010, at 11:34 AM, Viktoria Lyssenko wrote:
> 
>> The Penguin may propose to Mr.Vishal Agarval to support his accusations with
>> examples, arguments and facts. Otherwise, it looks like purely emotional
>> Hindutva rethorics.
>> Victoria
>>> Trouble at t'mill once again.
>>> Vishal Agarwal has posted a message here:
>>> http://www.southasiamail.com/news.php?id=58891
>>> asking people to sign a petition to Penguin demanding that they withdraw her
>>> book*The Hindus: An Alternative History* from publication and that Penguin
>>> apologize (to whom?) for publishing her book.
>>> Best, 
>>> Dominik 
>>> 
>> 
>> ????? ????? ??? http://mail.yandex.ru/nospam/sign




From wujastyk at GMAIL.COM  Mon Mar  1 09:57:08 2010
From: wujastyk at GMAIL.COM (Dominik Wujastyk)
Date: Mon, 01 Mar 10 10:57:08 +0100
Subject: Wendy Doniger under attack again
Message-ID: <161227088728.23782.12562813374663722410.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Trouble at t'mill once again.

Vishal Agarwal has posted a message here:
  http://www.southasiamail.com/news.php?id=58891
asking people to sign a petition to Penguin demanding that they withdraw her
book*The Hindus: An Alternative History* from publication and that Penguin
apologize (to whom?) for publishing her book.

Best,
Dominik




From mjslouber at BERKELEY.EDU  Mon Mar  1 10:48:06 2010
From: mjslouber at BERKELEY.EDU (Michael Slouber)
Date: Mon, 01 Mar 10 11:48:06 +0100
Subject: Wendy Doniger under attack again
In-Reply-To: <254261267439698@webmail110.yandex.ru>
Message-ID: <161227088734.23782.15382379144227851601.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

If you follow the links, they do have a list of examples: <http://www.petitiononline.com/dharma10/petition.htm>.  

One problem for the petitioners is that they don't give references for their claims, they just say "it is very well known" and "widely considered" and so on.  Their grievances may have merit, I don't know, but the way they are presented won't be taken seriously.

Michael Slouber



On Mar 1, 2010, at 11:34 AM, Viktoria Lyssenko wrote:

> The Penguin may propose to Mr.Vishal Agarval to support his accusations with examples, arguments and facts. Otherwise, it looks like purely emotional Hindutva rethorics.
> Victoria
>> Trouble at t'mill once again. 
>> Vishal Agarwal has posted a message here: 
>> http://www.southasiamail.com/news.php?id=58891 
>> asking people to sign a petition to Penguin demanding that they withdraw her 
>> book*The Hindus: An Alternative History* from publication and that Penguin 
>> apologize (to whom?) for publishing her book. 
>> Best, 
>> Dominik 
>> 
> 
> ????? ????? ??? http://mail.yandex.ru/nospam/sign




From vglyssenko at YANDEX.RU  Mon Mar  1 10:34:58 2010
From: vglyssenko at YANDEX.RU (Viktoria Lyssenko)
Date: Mon, 01 Mar 10 13:34:58 +0300
Subject: Wendy Doniger under attack again
In-Reply-To: <d1c0c7391003010157w2e8a4bffv6f507d3b24667023@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <161227088731.23782.15350780099778392713.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

The Penguin may propose to Mr.Vishal Agarval to support his accusations with examples, arguments and facts. Otherwise, it looks like purely emotional Hindutva rethorics.
Victoria
> Trouble at t'mill once again. 
> Vishal Agarwal has posted a message here: 
> http://www.southasiamail.com/news.php?id=58891 
> asking people to sign a petition to Penguin demanding that they withdraw her 
> book*The Hindus: An Alternative History* from publication and that Penguin 
> apologize (to whom?) for publishing her book. 
> Best, 
> Dominik 
> 

????? ????? ??? http://mail.yandex.ru/nospam/sign




From mjslouber at BERKELEY.EDU  Mon Mar  1 14:56:20 2010
From: mjslouber at BERKELEY.EDU (Michael Slouber)
Date: Mon, 01 Mar 10 15:56:20 +0100
Subject: Wendy Doniger under attack again
Message-ID: <161227088739.23782.3140708721623098549.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Begin forwarded message:

> From: Vishal Agarwal <vishalagarwal at hotmail.com>
> Date: March 1, 2010 3:52:40 PM GMT+01:00
> To: <mjslouber at berkeley.edu>
> Subject: Your message on criticism of Wendy Doniger's book
> 
> Dear Dr.
>  
> Your message (below my email to you) was forwarded by a list member to me. I think I have a right to put the record straight especially because I am not a member of this list and therefore cannot defend myself there.
>  
> If some scholars do not even know the correct (or commonly accepted) dates of Kabir, Mirabai, Akbar's transfer of his capital to Lahore/Agra (and not Delhi!), Amir Khusro's Qasida mentioning Khalji's demlotion of temples at Devagiri, or that Gandhiji's commentary on the Gita was called Anasakti yoga (and not Asakti yoga) and so on, the shame is on them, not on me. As for references, I have created documents for different chapters where I have provided the relevant bibliographic references from standard published works. To say that pointing out these errors is an example Hindutva rhetorics reflects the bigtory and ignorance of Viktoria Lyssenko et al. I do not subscribe to Hindu Nationalism, but perhaps my critics subscribe to white supermacism. Perhaps the ignorance of these 'scholars' explains why so many errors slipped past Penguin's editors. Maybe these editors were of the same (in)competence as that of  Viktoria!
>  
> Finally, let me correct these unscholarly calumniators. I have NOT posted this news item (or sent any letter to) on the southasiamail website. I was not even aware of this website. In fact, this petition has not even been drafted by me (although I helped the author list a few errors - my own list is several 100 errors long - the book is really bad), nor was the email announcing it written by me (I just forwarded it to the lists when I received it myself). Someone has mischievously added my name at the end of this announcement and has sent it to South Asia Mail website as my letter!
>  
> All of you would be advised to do some reading of basic sources of India history (or even pick up any geographical atlas!) to verify for themselves that Nagakot is not in E Nepal, nor is Kirthar range in Waziristan. It behoves you to send this message to your list to set the record straight.
> 
> 
> Vishal Agarwal 
> 
> Hotmail: Trusted email with powerful SPAM protection. Sign up now.




From shyamr at YORKU.CA  Tue Mar  2 01:03:38 2010
From: shyamr at YORKU.CA (Shyam Ranganathan)
Date: Mon, 01 Mar 10 20:03:38 -0500
Subject: Bibliography of Indian Philosophy
Message-ID: <161227088741.23782.6375201333223901426.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Dear List Members,

Please excuse cross postings. I have been asked by Oxford University Press
to compile an online bibliography of Indian Philosophy to be part of their
Oxford Bibliogrpahy Online project.  It is not supposed to be long: max 7500
words.  It will include entries on: 


. Classical darsanas (including selected tranlsations),
. Textbooks,
. Anthologies, 
. Secondary works that focus on specific darsanas (Nyaya, Vaisesika,
Jainism, Vedanta etc.,). 


If any one would like to make literature suggestions to me for any of these
sections, please do so off list. I am very happy to hear from authors who
would like me to include their work. If you are a self promoter, please do
not feel shy. I cannot guarantee that I can include every suggestion sent to
me, but I would be greatful for any and all suggestions. Also if you have
any strong opinions about how such a bibliography should be organized, I
would love to hear from you.
 
I am particularly interested in finding out about new secondary material and
anthologies. 

Best wishes,
Shyam

 
Dr. Shyam Ranganathan 
Department of Philosophy, 
York University, Toronto
Indian Philosohy Editor, Internet Encyclopedia of Philosophy
http://shyam.org/




From christophe.vielle at UCLOUVAIN.BE  Tue Mar  2 07:29:44 2010
From: christophe.vielle at UCLOUVAIN.BE (Christophe Vielle)
Date: Tue, 02 Mar 10 08:29:44 +0100
Subject: Bibliography of Indian Philosophy
In-Reply-To: <BLU0-SMTP40C72155CBDC9B68A62F7BF23B0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <161227088745.23782.3050564356454652845.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

See already K. Potter's BIBLIOGRAPHY OF INDIAN PHILOSOPHIES at

http://faculty.washington.edu/kpotter/xhome.htm
http://faculty.washington.edu/kpotter/xack.htm

>Dear List Members,
>
>Please excuse cross postings. I have been asked by Oxford University Press
>to compile an online bibliography of Indian Philosophy to be part of their
>Oxford Bibliogrpahy Online project.  It is not supposed to be long: max 7500
>words.  It will include entries on:
>
>
>. Classical darsanas (including selected tranlsations),
>. Textbooks,
>. Anthologies,
>. Secondary works that focus on specific darsanas (Nyaya, Vaisesika,
>Jainism, Vedanta etc.,).
>
>
>If any one would like to make literature suggestions to me for any of these
>sections, please do so off list. I am very happy to hear from authors who
>would like me to include their work. If you are a self promoter, please do
>not feel shy. I cannot guarantee that I can include every suggestion sent to
>me, but I would be greatful for any and all suggestions. Also if you have
>any strong opinions about how such a bibliography should be organized, I
>would love to hear from you.
>
>I am particularly interested in finding out about new secondary material and
>anthologies.
>
>Best wishes,
>Shyam
>
>
>Dr. Shyam Ranganathan
>Department of Philosophy,
>York University, Toronto
>Indian Philosohy Editor, Internet Encyclopedia of Philosophy
>http://shyam.org/


-- 
http://www.uclouvain.be/christophe.vielle
http://belgianindology.lalibreblogs.be




From mkmfolk at GMAIL.COM  Tue Mar  2 05:12:52 2010
From: mkmfolk at GMAIL.COM (Mahendra Kumar Mishra)
Date: Tue, 02 Mar 10 10:42:52 +0530
Subject: Bibliography of Indian Philosophy
In-Reply-To: <BLU0-SMTP40C72155CBDC9B68A62F7BF23B0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <161227088743.23782.1954293367988903839.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

 For  Shyam

Dear Mahendra Babu,
Thanks for your e-mail regarding Bibliography on Indian Philosophy.
I tried to contact Dr Syam. But the site did not respond.

My Ph.D. Book is :

?PHILOSOPHICAL REFLECTIONS IN THE NAISADHACARITA?,
By : Dr. HAREKRISHNA MEHER
Published by : Punthi Pustak, 136 / 4B, Bidhan Sarani, Calcutta-4,
First Edition 1989, ISBN: 81-85094-21-7.

Please see the Link (site) and send it to him.
Necessary matters can be collected from there.

http://hkmeher.blogspot.com/2007/10/philosophical-reflections-in.html



-- 
Dr. HAREKRISHNA MEHER
Sr.Reader & Head, Department of Sanskrit,
Government Autonomous College,
BHAWANIPATNA - 766001, Orissa (India)

Phone :  +91-6670-231591
Mobile : +91-94373-62962
e-mail :  meher.hk at gmail.com
website : http://hkmeher.blogspot.com

* *

On Tue, Mar 2, 2010 at 6:33 AM, Shyam Ranganathan <shyamr at yorku.ca> wrote:

> Dear List Members,
>
> Please excuse cross postings. I have been asked by Oxford University Press
> to compile an online bibliography of Indian Philosophy to be part of their
> Oxford Bibliogrpahy Online project.  It is not supposed to be long: max
> 7500
> words.  It will include entries on:
>
>
> . Classical darsanas (including selected tranlsations),
> . Textbooks,
> . Anthologies,
> . Secondary works that focus on specific darsanas (Nyaya, Vaisesika,
> Jainism, Vedanta etc.,).
>
>
> If any one would like to make literature suggestions to me for any of these
> sections, please do so off list. I am very happy to hear from authors who
> would like me to include their work. If you are a self promoter, please do
> not feel shy. I cannot guarantee that I can include every suggestion sent
> to
> me, but I would be greatful for any and all suggestions. Also if you have
> any strong opinions about how such a bibliography should be organized, I
> would love to hear from you.
>
> I am particularly interested in finding out about new secondary material
> and
> anthologies.
>
> Best wishes,
> Shyam
>
>
> Dr. Shyam Ranganathan
> Department of Philosophy,
> York University, Toronto
> Indian Philosohy Editor, Internet Encyclopedia of Philosophy
> http://shyam.org/
>



-- 
Dr Mahendra Kumar Mishra
State   SC/ST  and Minority  Education Coordinator,
Unit-V OPEPA

Residential Address:
D-9 Flat  Kalpana Area  Bhubaneswar  751014,India
phone 91+674-2310167(r)
094376-36436(m)




From r.mahoney at INDICA-ET-BUDDHICA.ORG  Tue Mar  2 23:19:33 2010
From: r.mahoney at INDICA-ET-BUDDHICA.ORG (Richard MAHONEY)
Date: Wed, 03 Mar 10 12:19:33 +1300
Subject: RESOURCE> SARIT Update: Wedemeyer's Caryamelapakapradipa now              available (Mahoney)
Message-ID: <161227088747.23782.553167622828627899.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Dear Colleagues,

Christian Wedemeyer's, _?ryadeva's Lamp that Integrates the Practices
(Cary?mel?pakaprad?pa): The Gradual Path of Vajray?na Buddhism
According to the Esoteric Community Noble Tradition - Part Three:
Critically Edited Sanskrit Text of ?ryadeva's Cary?mel?pakaprad?pa_ is
now available through SARIT. The SARIT version also includes
Christian's English, Sanskrit and Tibetan glossaries.

The table of contents is here:

 http://bit.ly/9ls75y

The glossaries are here:

 http://bit.ly/99qxoK

Bibliographic notes can be found here:

 http://bit.ly/98mJ4H


I'd like to thank Christian, Tom Yarnall, Robert Thurman and Columbia
for backing the encoding and distribution of this text.


If any authors, editors or publishers would like to support the
encoding of additional texts please feel free to approach us.



Best regards,

 Richard Mahoney







-- 
Richard MAHONEY

Littledene, Bay Road, OXFORD 7430, NZ
PO Box 25, OXFORD 7443
+64 3 312 1699 / +64 275 829 986
r.mahoney at indica-et-buddhica.org
http://indica-et-buddhica.org




From shyamr at YORKU.CA  Wed Mar  3 20:48:33 2010
From: shyamr at YORKU.CA (Shyam Ranganathan)
Date: Wed, 03 Mar 10 15:48:33 -0500
Subject: Indian Philosophy Bibliography: Clarification-Indic Language              Resources
Message-ID: <161227088750.23782.15173517133315215288.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Dear Colleagues,

 

Please excuse cross postings. I sent out an email recently to colleagues
about an entry on Indian Philosophy I've been asked to contribute to OUP 's
online bibliography project.  I asked for some suggestions.  I wanted to
clear up two matters. 

 

First, while I asked for suggestions regarding secondary material and
translations,  I never suggested that Indic Language sources were not going
to be included. If any colleagues have strong views on editions of classical
works, I would be more than happy to hear about them.  

 

Second, OUP has clarified that 7500 words is a suggestion, not a hard and
fast limitation on the entry. I am pleased to hear this, but I don't expect
to be producing anything as comprehensive as K Potter's great resource: that
would defeat the purpose of something smaller and more selective. 

 

The entry is supposed to be relevant to students and scholars alike. The aim
is to represent the literature that is essential for an understanding of the
topic.  Any and all suggestions are welcome off list: shyamr at yorku.ca     

 

Best wishes,

Shyam 

 

 

Dr. Shyam Ranganathan 

Department of Philosophy, 

York University, Toronto

Indian Philosohy Editor, Internet Encyclopedia of Philosophy

http://shyam.org/

 

 

 

 

 

 

 




From h.arganisjuarez at YAHOO.COM.MX  Thu Mar  4 03:09:04 2010
From: h.arganisjuarez at YAHOO.COM.MX (Horacio Francisco Arganis Juarez)
Date: Wed, 03 Mar 10 19:09:04 -0800
Subject: Quest
In-Reply-To: <BLU0-SMTP40C72155CBDC9B68A62F7BF23B0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <161227088752.23782.7867209944976991907.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Dear Sirs and Madams:
Regards. I am looking the e-mail of Chicago University Religion Professor Wendy Doniger. Thanks very much.
With my best wishes.

Lic. M.A. Horacio Francisco Arganis Ju?rez

Catedr?tico Investigador de la Universidad

Internacional Euroamericana.

Departamento de Filosof?a y Religi?n Comparada.

Miembro del Instituto de Estudios Filos?ficos de Saltillo A. C.

www.uie.edu.es

--- El mar 2-mar-10, Shyam Ranganathan <shyamr at YORKU.CA> escribi?:

De:: Shyam Ranganathan <shyamr at YORKU.CA>
Asunto: Bibliography of Indian Philosophy
A: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk
Fecha: martes, 2 de marzo de 2010, 1:03

Dear List Members,

Please excuse cross postings. I have been asked by Oxford University Press
to compile an online bibliography of Indian Philosophy to be part of their
Oxford Bibliogrpahy Online project.? It is not supposed to be long: max 7500
words.? It will include entries on: 


. Classical darsanas (including selected tranlsations),
. Textbooks,
. Anthologies, 
. Secondary works that focus on specific darsanas (Nyaya, Vaisesika,
Jainism, Vedanta etc.,). 


If any one would like to make literature suggestions to me for any of these
sections, please do so off list. I am very happy to hear from authors who
would like me to include their work. If you are a self promoter, please do
not feel shy. I cannot guarantee that I can include every suggestion sent to
me, but I would be greatful for any and all suggestions. Also if you have
any strong opinions about how such a bibliography should be organized, I
would love to hear from you.
 
I am particularly interested in finding out about new secondary material and
anthologies. 

Best wishes,
Shyam

 
Dr. Shyam Ranganathan 
Department of Philosophy, 
York University, Toronto
Indian Philosohy Editor, Internet Encyclopedia of Philosophy
http://shyam.org/



      ?Obt?n la mejor experiencia en la web! Descarga gratis el nuevo Internet Explorer 8. http://downloads.yahoo.com/ieak8/?l=mx




From conlon at U.WASHINGTON.EDU  Fri Mar  5 00:13:44 2010
From: conlon at U.WASHINGTON.EDU (Frank Conlon)
Date: Thu, 04 Mar 10 16:13:44 -0800
Subject: H-ASIA: CFP Tuvan Written Language,              Research questions of Writing systems & Written Monuments of              Inner Asia, Kyzyl, Tuva Republic, Russia, July 1-4, 2010
Message-ID: <161227088757.23782.7014261071085300732.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

H-ASIA
March 4, 2010

Call for papers: The Tuvan Written Language, Research Questions of 
Writing Systems, and Written Monuments of Inner Asia, conference at
Kyzyl, Tuva Republic, Russia, July 1-4, 2010    DEADLINE MARCH 16, 2010
***********************************************************************
From: H-Net Announcements <announce at MAIL.H-NET.MSU.EDU>

The Tuvan Written Language, Research Questions of Writing Systems, and 
Written Monuments of Inner Asia

Location: Russia
Call for Papers Date: 2010-03-16 (in 12 days)
Date Submitted: 2010-03-03
Announcement ID: 174544

Call for Papers

The Tuvan Institute of Humanitarian Research welcomes proposals for its 
2010 conference

The Tuvan Written Language, Research Questions of Writing Systems, and 
Written Monuments of Inner Asia
Tuvan Institute of Humanitarian Research, Kyzyl, Tuva Republic, Russia
July 1-4, 2010

Proposals due 16 March, 2010

The conference will be held July 14, 2010, at The Tuvan Institute of 
Humanitarian Research in Kyzyl, Tuva Republic, Russia. Full details will 
be available in Russian language at the Web site of Kyzyl, Tuva Republic, 
Russia http://tigi.tuva.ru

We invite proposals for papers that consider such questions as the 
following:

This conference will explore the written languages of Russia and Inner 
Asia. The focus will be both historical, examining the way in which 
methods and tecniques are consciously continued, and contemporary, looking 
at how written languages are learned now, in an era of globalization in 
which new ways coexist with tradition.

  A particular attention will be paid to folklore and literature of peoples 
of Siberia and Inner Asia: genesis, typology, tradition, and innovation.

  Monuments of writing systems as historical, archeological, and 
ethnographical resources.

  Alphabet: history, genesis, and temporary conditions.

  Tuvan written language and its role in the development of the language, 
education, and Tuvan culture.

  Questions of sociolinguistics, museum studies, and other 
interdisciplinary/

The conference will create intellectually coherent panels and discussion 
groups so that scholars from different fields can engage productively 
around a central theme or question.

Submission
Electronic submissions will be accepted. Send e-mailed proposals as 
attachments in Word to igi at tuva.ru



Mariana Kharunova
Tuvan Institute of Humanitarian Research
4 Kochetova Street,Kyzyl, Tuva Republic, Russia
Phone/fax: 7(39422)239-36

Email: igi at tuva.ru
Visit the website at http://tigi.tuva.ru


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From wujastyk at GMAIL.COM  Thu Mar  4 15:50:32 2010
From: wujastyk at GMAIL.COM (Dominik Wujastyk)
Date: Thu, 04 Mar 10 16:50:32 +0100
Subject: Fwd: Identification of Vidyasagara's writing on poetics
In-Reply-To: <227755.86979.qm@web53005.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <161227088755.23782.9013480421930078399.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Please make sure to CC your responses to the author, Gyurme Dorje <
gyurme_d at yahoo.com>.

Thanks,
DW

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: gyurme dorje <gyurme_d at yahoo.com>
Date: 4 February 2010 12:39
Subject: Identification of Vidyasagara's writing on poetics
To: wujastyk at gmail.com


[...]

I'm writing on the off-chance that you might be able to help me identify a
particular Indian author on Sanskrit poetics. Over the last two years or so
I have been working on the translation of a section from a 19th century
Tibetan encyclopaedia, which outlines the Tibetan understanding of the
so-called ten classical sciences (grammar, logic, fine and applied art,
medicine, astrology, poetics, prosody, lexicography, dramaturgy, Buddhist
abhidharma). In the section on poetics the author cits one "pa.n.dita rig
byed rgya mtsho", which translates back into Sanskrit as Pa.n.dita
Vedaar.nava or Vidyaasaagara.

The latter name appears in Karl Potter's listing (no. 805), as a 14th
century figure, and I'm trying to track down references to his works to see
if he indeed wrote on poetics. Potter cites one potentially useful source:
V. Raghavan, "Date and works of Anandapurna Vidyasagara", Journal of
Oriental Research, Madras, 4.1, 1939-40, 1-5.

I'm wondering if you might have access to that article and whether it does
indeed refer to any work on poetics. The passage cited in the Tibetan text
reads: "The defining characteristic of narrative is that knowledge is
expressed in the poetic medium of prose that is not deduced from historical
legends (itih?sakath?, sngon byung gi gtam rgyud), whereas the defining
characteristic of legend is that it is expressed in the poetic medium of
prose that largely commences with ancient tales".

Any light you can shed on this identification would be most welcome!

best regards

Gyurme Dorje




From jpo at UTS.CC.UTEXAS.EDU  Fri Mar  5 17:38:09 2010
From: jpo at UTS.CC.UTEXAS.EDU (Patrick Olivelle)
Date: Fri, 05 Mar 10 11:38:09 -0600
Subject: Source
Message-ID: <161227088760.23782.827997629319511152.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Could any one let me know the source of this verse? I should know it, 
but senility has set in!!

Rtumatiim yo bhaaryaam sannidhau nopagacchati
tasysaaH muutrapuriiSe SaNmaasaan pitaras tasya zerate

Thanks.

Patrick




From rospatt at BERKELEY.EDU  Fri Mar  5 20:42:31 2010
From: rospatt at BERKELEY.EDU (Alexander von Rospatt)
Date: Fri, 05 Mar 10 12:42:31 -0800
Subject: Update: Berkeley Summer Program: Words of Wisdom: Toward a              Western Terminology for Buddhist Texts
Message-ID: <161227088765.23782.5061344131494347098.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Dear Colleagues,

there are still a few free places on the 2010 Berkeley Summer Program: Words of Wisdom: Toward a Western Terminology for Buddhist Texts.

I would be grateful if you could remind potentially interested students of this special opportunity. The announcement can now also be found online at http://mangalamresearch.org/summer.htm.

With many thanks (and apologies for cross-listing with H-Buddhism),


Alexander von Rospatt

------------

Mangalam Research Center for Buddhist Languages
Center for Buddhist Studies, University of California
Ho Center for Buddhist Studies, Stanford University
 
Summer Program: Words of Wisdom: Toward a Western Terminology for Buddhist Texts
Berkeley, CA, USA. June 14-July 2, 2010
Core Faculty: Luis Gomez, Michael Hahn
Associate Faculty: Paul Harrison, Alexander von Rospatt, Carmen Dragonetti, Fernando Tola
 
Putting the Dharma into the words of a new culture is a task that has traditionally unfolded over several generations. In the West, where the languages of educated discourse are sophisticated and rich with layers of meaning, the challenges of being able to convey the Buddhist teachings as faithfully as possible are especially daunting.
This intensive three-week program, intended primarily for graduate students in Buddhism, Indology, or allied fields, is a small step toward a clear and consistent terminology or (more modestly) developing skills and strategies for finding the best translation equivalents in contemporary English.
The text for the program is the Vimalak?rtinirde?a-s?tra. We will read the Sanskrit together with the Tibetan and Chinese translations. This close reading will address problems of interpretation, as well as the technical and stylistic challenges faced by the translator of classical Buddhist texts. Students should have facility in Sanskrit; knowledge of Tibetan or Chinese will be helpful.
Format and Facilities?Guided by distinguished faculty, students will meet 5 hours a day, five days a week to work with the challenges posed by the text. Sessions will be held from 9:30 am ? 12:30 pm and 3:30 pm ? 5:30 pm. Meals are provided, and housing is an easy walk. Students will have access to the libraries of the Mangalam Research Center and the University of California at Berkeley (a 10-minute walk). Rapid Transit to San Francisco is half-a-block away.
Focus?The focus will be on key terms of the Vimalak?rtinirde?a-s?tra in the context of the profound Mahayana vision it sets forth. We will examine vocabulary choices in  both source and target languages, sensitive to subtle shifts in meaning between languages with different philosophical underpinnings. Among the topics to be explored and skills to be honed:
?  Sanskrit roots, etymology, and the relation of Buddhist Sanskrit to other forms of Sanskrit
?  Issues of context and intertexuality.
?  comparison with the Tibetan and Chinese, with reference to commentaries.
?  stylistic choices and terminology in existing translations in both canonical and modern languages
?  general issues in the theory and practice of translation as they arise in rendering a classic Buddh ist text into a modern idiom.
Costs: Tuition: $1,200 (includes lunch daily). Food and lodging: $1,350. Total cost: $2,550.
 
Applications?The program is intended for advanced graduate students, but applications from all qualified candidates will be considered. Please submit an application by March 15, 2010 to summerprograms at mangalamresearch.org. Include a short statement of purpose, a description of language skills and how acquired, and a 1?2 paragraph letter of endorsement from your principal adviser. Students completing the program will receive a formal letter from the Buddhist Studies program of the University of California, Berkeley, certifying that the course corresponds to a semester long graduate seminar of fifteen weeks with five hours of instruction per week."

 Maximum number of participants is 15. Applicants will be notified by April 10, 2010.




From axel.michaels at YAHOO.DE  Fri Mar  5 17:47:03 2010
From: axel.michaels at YAHOO.DE (Axel Michaels)
Date: Fri, 05 Mar 10 17:47:03 +0000
Subject: AW: Source
In-Reply-To: <a06240815c7b6f1a39e2a@[192.168.1.2]>
Message-ID: <161227088762.23782.12890405303034313999.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

___________________________
BaudhDhS 4.1.17?
 Best,
Axel 




________________________________
Von: Patrick Olivelle <jpo at UTS.CC.UTEXAS.EDU>
An: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk
Gesendet: Freitag, den 5. M?rz 2010, 18:38:09 Uhr
Betreff: Source

Could any one let me know the source of this verse? I should know it, but senility has set in!!

Rtumatiim yo bhaaryaam sannidhau nopagacchati
tasysaaH muutrapuriiSe SaNmaasaan pitaras tasya zerate

Thanks.

Patrick





From h.arganisjuarez at YAHOO.COM.MX  Sun Mar  7 00:43:45 2010
From: h.arganisjuarez at YAHOO.COM.MX (Horacio Francisco Arganis Juarez)
Date: Sat, 06 Mar 10 16:43:45 -0800
Subject: Nara-Narayana
In-Reply-To: <OF19F49120.6B9548AE-ON852576DE.007F0454-852576DE.007F765F@notes.cc.sunysb.edu>
Message-ID: <161227088770.23782.6075454809273359439.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Dear Doctor Andrew J. Nicholson.
There is a very nice book for you quest called Vaisnavism. Philosophy? and its Teology by Dr. Srinivasa Chari. Montilal editors. Also the Narada Bhaktisutra and Narada pancharatra, Brahma-samhita from Bhativedanta book truths. You can found may books like that in Krishna Culture shop House in Houston: Krishnaculture.com
With my best Wishes.
Lic. M.A. Horacio Francisco Arganis Ju?rez

Catedr?tico Investigador de la Universidad

Internacional Euroamericana.

Departamento de Filosof?a y Religi?n Comparada.

Miembro del Instituto de Estudios Filos?ficos de Saltillo A. C.

www.uie.edu.es

--- El s?b 6-mar-10, Andrew Nicholson <andrew.nicholson at STONYBROOK.EDU> escribi?:

De:: Andrew Nicholson <andrew.nicholson at STONYBROOK.EDU>
Asunto: Nara-Narayana
A: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk
Fecha: s?bado, 6 de marzo de 2010, 23:12

Dear Colleagues,

Can anyone recommend good books or articles on the theology and mythology
of Nara-Narayana?? I am especially interested in the way they were
understood in Pancaratra texts.

Many thanks!

Andrew
______________________________________________
Andrew J. Nicholson
Assistant Professor
Department of Asian and Asian American Studies
Stony Brook University
Stony Brook, NY 11794-5343 USA
Tel: (631) 632-4030? Fax: (631) 632-4098



      Encuentra las mejores recetas en Yahoo! Cocina.                       
http://mx.mujer.yahoo.com/cocina/




From andrew.nicholson at STONYBROOK.EDU  Sat Mar  6 23:12:11 2010
From: andrew.nicholson at STONYBROOK.EDU (Andrew Nicholson)
Date: Sat, 06 Mar 10 18:12:11 -0500
Subject: Nara-Narayana
Message-ID: <161227088768.23782.15005359357492793865.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Dear Colleagues,

Can anyone recommend good books or articles on the theology and mythology
of Nara-Narayana?  I am especially interested in the way they were
understood in Pancaratra texts.

Many thanks!

Andrew
______________________________________________
Andrew J. Nicholson
Assistant Professor
Department of Asian and Asian American Studies
Stony Brook University
Stony Brook, NY 11794-5343 USA
Tel: (631) 632-4030  Fax: (631) 632-4098




From fleming_b4 at HOTMAIL.COM  Sun Mar  7 04:41:54 2010
From: fleming_b4 at HOTMAIL.COM (Benjamin Fleming)
Date: Sat, 06 Mar 10 23:41:54 -0500
Subject: The Sivapadas of Ancient Cambodia
Message-ID: <161227088773.23782.5396335767036029731.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Dear List,
I am interested to know if there are any plans to publish the proceedings from this conference from 2008 by the European Association of Southeast Asian Archaeologists:
The Sivapadas of Cambodia I-III
http://www.iias.nl/euraseaa12/?q=the-sivapadas-of-ancient-cambodia-ihttp://www.iias.nl/euraseaa12/?q=the-sivapadas-of-ancient-cambodia-iihttp://www.iias.nl/euraseaa12/?q=the-sivapadas-of-ancient-cambodia-iii
Or have any of the individual papers been published separately? Perhaps there are some list members who presented at the conference who might wish to comment on or off-list?
Thanks much for your assistance.
Best Wishes,
Benjamin
-- 

Dr. Benjamin Fleming,Visiting Scholar, Dept. of Religious Studies, 
University of Pennsylvania 249 S. 36th Street, 
Claudia Cohen Hall, #234 
Philadelphia, PA 19104 U.S.A. 
Telephone - 215-746-7792
http://www.sas.upenn.edu/~bfleming 

 		 	   		  
_________________________________________________________________
Hotmail: Free, trusted and rich email service.
http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/201469228/direct/01/




From witzel at FAS.HARVARD.EDU  Sun Mar  7 16:52:44 2010
From: witzel at FAS.HARVARD.EDU (Michael Witzel)
Date: Sun, 07 Mar 10 11:52:44 -0500
Subject: Nara-Narayana
In-Reply-To: <OF19F49120.6B9548AE-ON852576DE.007F0454-852576DE.007F765F@notes.cc.sunysb.edu>
Message-ID: <161227088784.23782.2499201191757964889.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

There is a long and very detailed paper on the development, starting  
with  Vedic sources,  of Narayana
by the lamented, early-departed

Hertha Krick:
Narayana und Opfertod,

Wiener Zeitschrift zur Kunde S?dasiens,
vol. 21, 1977, 71-142

See further this google page:

<http://books.google.com/books? 
id=2jnPlEqwe_UC&pg=PA186&lpg=PA186&dq=Krick 
+narayana&source=bl&ots=EOAD5r7iQf&sig=vKbweIn- 
TvQJ4DuZFcwEHkED1Ao&hl=en&ei=98yTS7-LK8- 
vtgehrInVCg&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CAgQ6AEwAA#v=one 
page&q=Krick%20narayana&f=false>


Cheers,
M.W.


On Mar 6, 2010, at 6:12 PM, Andrew Nicholson wrote:

> Dear Colleagues,
>
> Can anyone recommend good books or articles on the theology and  
> mythology
> of Nara-Narayana?  I am especially interested in the way they were
> understood in Pancaratra texts.
>
> Many thanks!
>
> Andrew
> ______________________________________________
> Andrew J. Nicholson
> Assistant Professor
> Department of Asian and Asian American Studies
> Stony Brook University
> Stony Brook, NY 11794-5343 USA
> Tel: (631) 632-4030  Fax: (631) 632-4098

============
Michael Witzel
witzel at fas.harvard.edu
<www.fas.harvard.edu/~witzel/mwpage.htm>

Dept. of Sanskrit & Indian Studies, Harvard University
1 Bow Street,
Cambridge MA 02138, USA

phone: 1- 617 - 495 3295, 496 8570, fax 617 - 496 8571;
my direct line:  617- 496 2990




From mnstorm at MAC.COM  Sun Mar  7 07:00:33 2010
From: mnstorm at MAC.COM (Mary Storm)
Date: Sun, 07 Mar 10 12:30:33 +0530
Subject: Nara-Narayana
In-Reply-To: <OF19F49120.6B9548AE-ON852576DE.007F0454-852576DE.007F765F@notes.cc.sunysb.edu>
Message-ID: <161227088776.23782.9068572155394874358.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Greetings Andrew,

You might want to look at the Nara-Narayana relief on the East wall of  
the Deogarh Visnu shrine. Gupta, early 6th c. Might be an interesting  
look at the mythology.

cheers,
mary

Mary N. Storm, Ph.D.
Academic Director and Lecturer
India: National Identity and the Arts
and
Himalayan Buddhist Art and Architecture
SIT Study Abroad
www.sit.edu

F 301 Lado Sarai
New Delhi 110030

Mobile +91 98106 98003
Office Landline  +91 11 2437 8003
Residence Landline +91 11295 53298



On 07-Mar-10, at 4:42 AM, Andrew Nicholson wrote:

> Dear Colleagues,
>
> Can anyone recommend good books or articles on the theology and  
> mythology
> of Nara-Narayana?  I am especially interested in the way they were
> understood in Pancaratra texts.
>
> Many thanks!
>
> Andrew
> ______________________________________________
> Andrew J. Nicholson
> Assistant Professor
> Department of Asian and Asian American Studies
> Stony Brook University
> Stony Brook, NY 11794-5343 USA
> Tel: (631) 632-4030  Fax: (631) 632-4098




From arlogriffiths at HOTMAIL.COM  Sun Mar  7 15:55:19 2010
From: arlogriffiths at HOTMAIL.COM (Arlo Griffiths)
Date: Sun, 07 Mar 10 15:55:19 +0000
Subject: The Sivapadas of Ancient Cambodia
In-Reply-To: <BLU128-W23B5095536D6D2C6C3A354A4360@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <161227088779.23782.10041821413695416542.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

There are no plans to publish the proceedings. The most significant parts of my own contribution on the terminology of maps and map-making in ancient Cambodia are included in a joint article on the 11 century stela inscription K. 1238 written with D. Soutif that, inshallah, should come out in BEFEO before too long. I am not aware of any of the other papers beings in print.
The project Corpus des inscriptions khm?res intends to bring out a volume on the epigraphy of the western and eastern "Sivapaada temples in a still rather hazy future.
Sincerely,
Arlo GriffithsEFEO/Jakarta

----------------------------------------
> Date: Sat, 6 Mar 2010 23:41:54 -0500
> From: fleming_b4 at HOTMAIL.COM
> Subject: The Sivapadas of Ancient Cambodia
> To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk
>
> Dear List,
> I am interested to know if there are any plans to publish the proceedings from this conference from 2008 by the European Association of Southeast Asian Archaeologists:
> The Sivapadas of Cambodia I-III
> http://www.iias.nl/euraseaa12/?q=the-sivapadas-of-ancient-cambodia-ihttp://www.iias.nl/euraseaa12/?q=the-sivapadas-of-ancient-cambodia-iihttp://www.iias.nl/euraseaa12/?q=the-sivapadas-of-ancient-cambodia-iii
> Or have any of the individual papers been published separately? Perhaps there are some list members who presented at the conference who might wish to comment on or off-list?
> Thanks much for your assistance.
> Best Wishes,
> Benjamin
> --
>
> Dr. Benjamin Fleming,Visiting Scholar, Dept. of Religious Studies,
> University of Pennsylvania 249 S. 36th Street,
> Claudia Cohen Hall, #234
> Philadelphia, PA 19104 U.S.A.
> Telephone - 215-746-7792
> http://www.sas.upenn.edu/~bfleming
>
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Hotmail: Free, trusted and rich email service.
> http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/201469228/direct/01/
 		 	   		  
_________________________________________________________________
Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today it's FREE!
http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/




From arlogriffiths at HOTMAIL.COM  Sun Mar  7 16:00:01 2010
From: arlogriffiths at HOTMAIL.COM (Arlo Griffiths)
Date: Sun, 07 Mar 10 16:00:01 +0000
Subject: correction
In-Reply-To: <SNT133-w399921E9328FED132C0217A5360@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <161227088781.23782.728584906728649299.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

correction: there certainly are plans, already in an advanced state of realization, to publish the proceedings from the conference, but these proceedings will not contain most or any of the papers from the panel in question.
Arlo Griffiths

----------------------------------------
> Date: Sun, 7 Mar 2010 15:55:19 +0000
> From: arlogriffiths at HOTMAIL.COM
> Subject: Re: The Sivapadas of Ancient Cambodia
> To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk
>
> There are no plans to publish the proceedings. The most significant parts of my own contribution on the terminology of maps and map-making in ancient Cambodia are included in a joint article on the 11 century stela inscription K. 1238 written with D. Soutif that, inshallah, should come out in BEFEO before too long. I am not aware of any of the other papers beings in print.
> The project Corpus des inscriptions khm?res intends to bring out a volume on the epigraphy of the western and eastern "Sivapaada temples in a still rather hazy future.
> Sincerely,
> Arlo GriffithsEFEO/Jakarta
>
> ----------------------------------------
>> Date: Sat, 6 Mar 2010 23:41:54 -0500
>> From: fleming_b4 at HOTMAIL.COM
>> Subject: The Sivapadas of Ancient Cambodia
>> To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk
>>
>> Dear List,
>> I am interested to know if there are any plans to publish the proceedings from this conference from 2008 by the European Association of Southeast Asian Archaeologists:
>> The Sivapadas of Cambodia I-III
>> http://www.iias.nl/euraseaa12/?q=the-sivapadas-of-ancient-cambodia-ihttp://www.iias.nl/euraseaa12/?q=the-sivapadas-of-ancient-cambodia-iihttp://www.iias.nl/euraseaa12/?q=the-sivapadas-of-ancient-cambodia-iii
>> Or have any of the individual papers been published separately? Perhaps there are some list members who presented at the conference who might wish to comment on or off-list?
>> Thanks much for your assistance.
>> Best Wishes,
>> Benjamin
>> --
>>
>> Dr. Benjamin Fleming,Visiting Scholar, Dept. of Religious Studies,
>> University of Pennsylvania 249 S. 36th Street,
>> Claudia Cohen Hall, #234
>> Philadelphia, PA 19104 U.S.A.
>> Telephone - 215-746-7792
>> http://www.sas.upenn.edu/~bfleming
>>
>>
>> _________________________________________________________________
>> Hotmail: Free, trusted and rich email service.
>> http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/201469228/direct/01/
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today it's FREE!
> http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/
 		 	   		  
_________________________________________________________________
New Windows 7: Find the right PC for you. Learn more.
http://windows.microsoft.com/shop




From christophe.vielle at UCLOUVAIN.BE  Sun Mar  7 17:15:51 2010
From: christophe.vielle at UCLOUVAIN.BE (Christophe Vielle)
Date: Sun, 07 Mar 10 18:15:51 +0100
Subject: Nara-Narayana
In-Reply-To: <OF19F49120.6B9548AE-ON852576DE.007F0454-852576DE.007F765F@notes.cc.sunys              b.edu>
Message-ID: <161227088786.23782.17406220233069852381.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

By the late Madeleine Biardeau, "Nara et 
Naaraaya.na", Wiener Zeitschrift f?r die Kunde 
S?dasiens, vol. 35, 1991, pp. 75-108


>Dear Colleagues,
>
>Can anyone recommend good books or articles on the theology and mythology
>of Nara-Narayana?  I am especially interested in the way they were
>understood in Pancaratra texts.
>
>Many thanks!
>
>Andrew
>______________________________________________
>Andrew J. Nicholson
>Assistant Professor
>Department of Asian and Asian American Studies
>Stony Brook University
>Stony Brook, NY 11794-5343 USA
>Tel: (631) 632-4030  Fax: (631) 632-4098


-- 
http://www.uclouvain.be/christophe.vielle
http://belgianindology.lalibreblogs.be




From ssandahl at SYMPATICO.CA  Sun Mar  7 23:40:18 2010
From: ssandahl at SYMPATICO.CA (Stella Sandahl)
Date: Sun, 07 Mar 10 18:40:18 -0500
Subject: E-mail address needed
Message-ID: <161227088788.23782.2189547878628450604.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Dear colleagues,
Does anyone have the e-mail address, snail-mail address or telephone  
number to Professor John E. Cort?
Please reply directly to ssandahl at sympatico.ca
Many thanks!

--
Stella Sandahl
ssandahl at sympatico.ca




From mkapstei at UCHICAGO.EDU  Mon Mar  8 13:39:23 2010
From: mkapstei at UCHICAGO.EDU (mkapstei at UCHICAGO.EDU)
Date: Mon, 08 Mar 10 07:39:23 -0600
Subject: upodghata
In-Reply-To: <B924D027-C5F1-43CC-9DEE-AE40B1926CCA@t-online.de>
Message-ID: <161227088794.23782.13700336285053301915.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

I am not sure that precisely the same verse will
be found there, but the first text that comes to
mind that surely includes some close parallels
is the Vyaakhyaayuktixaastra of Vasubandhu.

Matthew T. Kapstein
Numata Visiting Professor of Buddhist Studies
The University of Chicago Divinity School

Directeur d'?tudes
Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes, Paris




From mkapstei at UCHICAGO.EDU  Mon Mar  8 14:51:46 2010
From: mkapstei at UCHICAGO.EDU (mkapstei at UCHICAGO.EDU)
Date: Mon, 08 Mar 10 08:51:46 -0600
Subject: "Saisha" as the name of a goddess?
In-Reply-To: <A7EDDED0-A4C2-4846-9CEF-0D4AB6AFA8B6@fas.harvard.edu>
Message-ID: <161227088801.23782.5025817306481230710.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

This reminds me vaguely of the Paazupata explanation
of Soma as a name of Ziva as sa + Umaa.

Matthew T. Kapstein
Numata Visiting Professor of Buddhist Studies
The University of Chicago Divinity School

Directeur d'?tudes
Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes, Paris




From ashok.aklujkar at UBC.CA  Mon Mar  8 17:26:04 2010
From: ashok.aklujkar at UBC.CA (Ashok Aklujkar)
Date: Mon, 08 Mar 10 09:26:04 -0800
Subject: upodghata
In-Reply-To: <26942_1268045749_1268045749_B924D027-C5F1-43CC-9DEE-AE40B1926CCA@t-online.de>
Message-ID: <161227088815.23782.5308425549078273370.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

On 10-03-08 2:55 AM, "petra kieffer-P?lz" <kiepue at T-ONLINE.DE> wrote:

> upoggh?to pada? c' eva padattho padaviggaho
> codan? pratyavajj?na? by?khy? tantassa chabbiddh?


The verse seems to express a composite coceptualization suitable to the
needs of a specific work or genre. The following verses have its ideas but
not exactly the same configuration:

pada-ccheda.h padaarthoktir vigraho vaakya-yojanaa /
aak.sepe.su samaadhaana.m vyaakhyaana.m pa;nca-lak.sa.nam //
Variant for the second half noted in Nyaaya-ko;sa p. 828: aak.sepo 'tha
samaadhaana.m vyaakhyaana.m .sa.d-vidha.m matam //. The same source
attributes the verse to Paraa;sara Puraa.na adhyaaya 18, but I am sure that
it occurs in other works, especially scholastic works.

upakramopasa.mhaaraav abhyaaso 'puurvataa phalam
artha-vaadopapattii ca  hetus taatparya-nir.naye // quoted in several
Miimaa.msaa and Vedaanta works.

ashok aklujkar




From dbhattacharya2004 at YAHOO.CO.IN  Mon Mar  8 04:03:49 2010
From: dbhattacharya2004 at YAHOO.CO.IN (Dipak Bhattacharya)
Date: Mon, 08 Mar 10 09:33:49 +0530
Subject: Nara-Narayana
In-Reply-To: <OF19F49120.6B9548AE-ON852576DE.007F0454-852576DE.007F765F@notes.cc.sunysb.edu>
Message-ID: <161227088790.23782.7088510492667948329.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

I do not know if the following information will be of any help. I vaguely remember that long ago it was either Hertha Krick or Bettina B?umer of whom an off-print of a study on the N?r?ya?abal?-Upani?ad was presented to me. Both were at Vienna then. It had something. But I cannot find it out now. The Vedic Bibliography did not help. My apologies if the paper is the same as the ?N?r?ya?a und Opfertod?.?
Best for all
DB

--- On Sun, 7/3/10, Andrew Nicholson <andrew.nicholson at STONYBROOK.EDU> wrote:


From: Andrew Nicholson <andrew.nicholson at STONYBROOK.EDU>
Subject: Nara-Narayana
To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk
Date: Sunday, 7 March, 2010, 4:42 AM


Dear Colleagues,

Can anyone recommend good books or articles on the theology and mythology
of Nara-Narayana?? I am especially interested in the way they were
understood in Pancaratra texts.

Many thanks!

Andrew
______________________________________________
Andrew J. Nicholson
Assistant Professor
Department of Asian and Asian American Studies
Stony Brook University
Stony Brook, NY 11794-5343 USA
Tel: (631) 632-4030? Fax: (631) 632-4098



      Your Mail works best with the New Yahoo Optimized IE8. Get it NOW! http://downloads.yahoo.com/in/internetexplorer/




From mmdesh at UMICH.EDU  Mon Mar  8 14:39:11 2010
From: mmdesh at UMICH.EDU (Deshpande, Madhav)
Date: Mon, 08 Mar 10 09:39:11 -0500
Subject: "Saisha" as the name of a goddess?
Message-ID: <161227088797.23782.15511545390995328995.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Dear Indologists,

Recently I met a Brahmin family from Karnataka who have a newborn daughter named "Saisha".  They asked me what the word means.  I could not think of a Sanskrit word close to "Saisha."  Then the grandfather said that this is a name of goddess Lakshmi used in a Sanskrit stotra popular among followers of Ramanuja.  The line from the stotra he recited was:  sai?? dev? sakala-bhuvana-pr?rthan?-k?madhenu?.  It was immediately apparent to me that the "Saisha" was simply s? e??, and not a name of the goddess, but I was not able to convince the grandfather of the child, who fervently argued that "Saisha" was an authentic name of the goddess.  I wonder if others have come across similar examples.

Madhav

Madhav M. Deshpande
Professor of Sanskrit and Linguistics
Department of Asian Languages and Cultures
202 South Thayer Street, Suite 6111
The University of Michigan
Ann Arbor, Michigan 48104-1608, USA
________________________________________
From: Indology [INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Alexander von Rospatt [rospatt at BERKELEY.EDU]
Sent: Friday, March 05, 2010 3:42 PM
To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk
Subject: Update: Berkeley Summer Program: Words of Wisdom: Toward a Western Terminology for Buddhist Texts

Dear Colleagues,

there are still a few free places on the 2010 Berkeley Summer Program: Words of Wisdom: Toward a Western Terminology for Buddhist Texts.

I would be grateful if you could remind potentially interested students of this special opportunity. The announcement can now also be found online at http://mangalamresearch.org/summer.htm.

With many thanks (and apologies for cross-listing with H-Buddhism),


Alexander von Rospatt

------------

Mangalam Research Center for Buddhist Languages
Center for Buddhist Studies, University of California
Ho Center for Buddhist Studies, Stanford University

Summer Program: Words of Wisdom: Toward a Western Terminology for Buddhist Texts
Berkeley, CA, USA. June 14-July 2, 2010
Core Faculty: Luis Gomez, Michael Hahn
Associate Faculty: Paul Harrison, Alexander von Rospatt, Carmen Dragonetti, Fernando Tola

Putting the Dharma into the words of a new culture is a task that has traditionally unfolded over several generations. In the West, where the languages of educated discourse are sophisticated and rich with layers of meaning, the challenges of being able to convey the Buddhist teachings as faithfully as possible are especially daunting.
This intensive three-week program, intended primarily for graduate students in Buddhism, Indology, or allied fields, is a small step toward a clear and consistent terminology or (more modestly) developing skills and strategies for finding the best translation equivalents in contemporary English.
The text for the program is the Vimalak?rtinirde?a-s?tra. We will read the Sanskrit together with the Tibetan and Chinese translations. This close reading will address problems of interpretation, as well as the technical and stylistic challenges faced by the translator of classical Buddhist texts. Students should have facility in Sanskrit; knowledge of Tibetan or Chinese will be helpful.
Format and Facilities?Guided by distinguished faculty, students will meet 5 hours a day, five days a week to work with the challenges posed by the text. Sessions will be held from 9:30 am ? 12:30 pm and 3:30 pm ? 5:30 pm. Meals are provided, and housing is an easy walk. Students will have access to the libraries of the Mangalam Research Center and the University of California at Berkeley (a 10-minute walk). Rapid Transit to San Francisco is half-a-block away.
Focus?The focus will be on key terms of the Vimalak?rtinirde?a-s?tra in the context of the profound Mahayana vision it sets forth. We will examine vocabulary choices in  both source and target languages, sensitive to subtle shifts in meaning between languages with different philosophical underpinnings. Among the topics to be explored and skills to be honed:
?  Sanskrit roots, etymology, and the relation of Buddhist Sanskrit to other forms of Sanskrit
?  Issues of context and intertexuality.
?  comparison with the Tibetan and Chinese, with reference to commentaries.
?  stylistic choices and terminology in existing translations in both canonical and modern languages
?  general issues in the theory and practice of translation as they arise in rendering a classic Buddh ist text into a modern idiom.
Costs: Tuition: $1,200 (includes lunch daily). Food and lodging: $1,350. Total cost: $2,550.

Applications?The program is intended for advanced graduate students, but applications from all qualified candidates will be considered. Please submit an application by March 15, 2010 to summerprograms at mangalamresearch.org. Include a short statement of purpose, a description of language skills and how acquired, and a 1?2 paragraph letter of endorsement from your principal adviser. Students completing the program will receive a formal letter from the Buddhist Studies program of the University of California, Berkeley, certifying that the course corresponds to a semester long graduate seminar of fifteen weeks with five hours of instruction per week."

 Maximum number of participants is 15. Applicants will be notified by April 10, 2010.




From witzel at FAS.HARVARD.EDU  Mon Mar  8 14:47:35 2010
From: witzel at FAS.HARVARD.EDU (Michael Witzel)
Date: Mon, 08 Mar 10 09:47:35 -0500
Subject: "Saisha" as the name of a goddess?
In-Reply-To: <3AF9B038A6B07641B36C799ED4EBB0D704D4B4E4C0@ITCS-ECLS-1-VS3.adsroot.itcs.umich.edu>
Message-ID: <161227088799.23782.3604005622988787452.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

What about zacii-pati (?ac?-pati)  "lord of strength" (= Indra), a  
dozen times  in the RV,

but then understood as "husband of ?ac?", whence Indra's wife got  
her name ?ac?.

Which will remind some of us of the unforgettable lecture of Alex  
Wayman at  the AOS, some 10 years ago...
Homeric names!

Cheers,
Michael

On Mar 8, 2010, at 9:39 AM, Deshpande, Madhav wrote:

> Dear Indologists,
>
> Recently I met a Brahmin family from Karnataka who have a newborn  
> daughter named "Saisha".  They asked me what the word means.  I  
> could not think of a Sanskrit word close to "Saisha."  Then the  
> grandfather said that this is a name of goddess Lakshmi used in a  
> Sanskrit stotra popular among followers of Ramanuja.  The line from  
> the stotra he recited was:  sai?? dev? sakala-bhuvana- 
> pr?rthan?-k?madhenu?.  It was immediately apparent to me that  
> the "Saisha" was simply s? e??, and not a name of the goddess,  
> but I was not able to convince the grandfather of the child, who  
> fervently argued that "Saisha" was an authentic name of the  
> goddess.  I wonder if others have come across similar examples.
>
> Madhav
>
> Madhav M. Deshpande
> Professor of Sanskrit and Linguistics
> Department of Asian Languages and Cultures
> 202 South Thayer Street, Suite 6111
> The University of Michigan
> Ann Arbor, Michigan 48104-1608, USA
> ________________________________________
> From: Indology [INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Alexander  
> von Rospatt [rospatt at BERKELEY.EDU]
> Sent: Friday, March 05, 2010 3:42 PM
> To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk
> Subject: Update: Berkeley Summer Program: Words of Wisdom: Toward a  
> Western Terminology for Buddhist Texts
>
> Dear Colleagues,
>
> there are still a few free places on the 2010 Berkeley Summer  
> Program: Words of Wisdom: Toward a Western Terminology for Buddhist  
> Texts.
>
> I would be grateful if you could remind potentially interested  
> students of this special opportunity. The announcement can now also  
> be found online at http://mangalamresearch.org/summer.htm.
>
> With many thanks (and apologies for cross-listing with H-Buddhism),
>
>
> Alexander von Rospatt
>
> ------------
>
> Mangalam Research Center for Buddhist Languages
> Center for Buddhist Studies, University of California
> Ho Center for Buddhist Studies, Stanford University
>
> Summer Program: Words of Wisdom: Toward a Western Terminology for  
> Buddhist Texts
> Berkeley, CA, USA. June 14-July 2, 2010
> Core Faculty: Luis Gomez, Michael Hahn
> Associate Faculty: Paul Harrison, Alexander von Rospatt, Carmen  
> Dragonetti, Fernando Tola
>
> Putting the Dharma into the words of a new culture is a task that  
> has traditionally unfolded over several generations. In the West,  
> where the languages of educated discourse are sophisticated and  
> rich with layers of meaning, the challenges of being able to convey  
> the Buddhist teachings as faithfully as possible are especially  
> daunting.
> This intensive three-week program, intended primarily for graduate  
> students in Buddhism, Indology, or allied fields, is a small step  
> toward a clear and consistent terminology or (more modestly)  
> developing skills and strategies for finding the best translation  
> equivalents in contemporary English.
> The text for the program is the Vimalak?rtinirde?a-s?tra. We will  
> read the Sanskrit together with the Tibetan and Chinese  
> translations. This close reading will address problems of  
> interpretation, as well as the technical and stylistic challenges  
> faced by the translator of classical Buddhist texts. Students  
> should have facility in Sanskrit; knowledge of Tibetan or Chinese  
> will be helpful.
> Format and Facilities?Guided by distinguished faculty, students  
> will meet 5 hours a day, five days a week to work with the  
> challenges posed by the text. Sessions will be held from 9:30 am ?  
> 12:30 pm and 3:30 pm ? 5:30 pm. Meals are provided, and housing is  
> an easy walk. Students will have access to the libraries of the  
> Mangalam Research Center and the University of California at  
> Berkeley (a 10-minute walk). Rapid Transit to San Francisco is half- 
> a-block away.
> Focus?The focus will be on key terms of the Vimalak?rtinirde?a- 
> s?tra in the context of the profound Mahayana vision it sets forth.  
> We will examine vocabulary choices in  both source and target  
> languages, sensitive to subtle shifts in meaning between languages  
> with different philosophical underpinnings. Among the topics to be  
> explored and skills to be honed:
> ?  Sanskrit roots, etymology, and the relation of Buddhist  
> Sanskrit to other forms of Sanskrit
> ?  Issues of context and intertexuality.
> ?  comparison with the Tibetan and Chinese, with reference to  
> commentaries.
> ?  stylistic choices and terminology in existing translations in  
> both canonical and modern languages
> ?  general issues in the theory and practice of translation as  
> they arise in rendering a classic Buddh ist text into a modern idiom.
> Costs: Tuition: $1,200 (includes lunch daily). Food and lodging:  
> $1,350. Total cost: $2,550.
>
> Applications?The program is intended for advanced graduate  
> students, but applications from all qualified candidates will be  
> considered. Please submit an application by March 15, 2010 to  
> summerprograms at mangalamresearch.org. Include a short statement of  
> purpose, a description of language skills and how acquired, and a  
> 1?2 paragraph letter of endorsement from your principal adviser.  
> Students completing the program will receive a formal letter from  
> the Buddhist Studies program of the University of California,  
> Berkeley, certifying that the course corresponds to a semester long  
> graduate seminar of fifteen weeks with five hours of instruction  
> per week."
>
>  Maximum number of participants is 15. Applicants will be notified  
> by April 10, 2010.

============
Michael Witzel
witzel at fas.harvard.edu
<www.fas.harvard.edu/~witzel/mwpage.htm>

Dept. of Sanskrit & Indian Studies, Harvard University
1 Bow Street,
Cambridge MA 02138, USA

phone: 1- 617 - 495 3295, 496 8570, fax 617 - 496 8571;
my direct line:  617- 496 2990




From ashok.aklujkar at UBC.CA  Mon Mar  8 17:57:36 2010
From: ashok.aklujkar at UBC.CA (Ashok Aklujkar)
Date: Mon, 08 Mar 10 09:57:36 -0800
Subject: "Saisha" as the name of a goddess?
In-Reply-To: <304_1268059181_1268059181_3AF9B038A6B07641B36C799ED4EBB0D704D4B4E4C0@ITCS-ECLS-1-VS3.adsroot.itcs.umich.edu>
Message-ID: <161227088820.23782.642077347711631739.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

The only exactly parallel case (in terms of structure and the justification
given) of which I am aware was contained in a story/joke I once heard from
Pt. V. B. Bhagavat/Bhagwat: someone named/naming his son apy-ekadanta,
thinking it was one of Gane;sa's name, on the basis of the Amara-ko;sa
(1.94) line: apyekadanta-heramba-lambodara-gajaananaa.h.

The onus of proving that sai.saa is a name of Lak.smii should be on the one
who made the claim. If the proof is said to be in the line >sai?? dev?
sakala-bhuvana-pr?rthan?-k?madhenu?<, even after you explained that sai.saa
is just saa e.saa, then sai.saa should also be another name/word for
vakrokti, because Bhaamaha wrote: sai.saa sarvatra vakrokti.h!

ashok aklujkar




From witzel at FAS.HARVARD.EDU  Mon Mar  8 16:44:51 2010
From: witzel at FAS.HARVARD.EDU (Michael Witzel)
Date: Mon, 08 Mar 10 11:44:51 -0500
Subject: "Saisha" as the name of a goddess?
In-Reply-To: <d1c0c7391003080822o263df04bx1b08fb2642d0dfeb@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <161227088808.23782.2170083677398528832.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Naciketas / Naciket?  <   na ciketa,  --  well he learned something...

s?man = s? + ama   : s? = eye,  ama = mind   (in Brahmana texts,  
ChU 1.7.1)

...

MW

On Mar 8, 2010, at 11:22 AM, Dominik Wujastyk wrote:

> ko j?n?ti?
>
>
> On 8 March 2010 15:39, Deshpande, Madhav <mmdesh at umich.edu> wrote:
>
>> Dear Indologists,
>>
>> Recently I met a Brahmin family from Karnataka who have a newborn  
>> daughter
>> named "Saisha".  They asked me what the word means.  I could not  
>> think of a
>> Sanskrit word close to "Saisha."  Then the grandfather said that  
>> this is a
>> name of goddess Lakshmi used in a Sanskrit stotra popular among  
>> followers of
>> Ramanuja.  The line from the stotra he recited was:  sai?? dev?
>> sakala-bhuvana-pr?rthan?-k?madhenu?.  It was immediately  
>> apparent to me that
>> the "Saisha" was simply s? e??, and not a name of the goddess,  
>> but I was not
>> able to convince the grandfather of the child, who fervently  
>> argued that
>> "Saisha" was an authentic name of the goddess.  I wonder if others  
>> have come
>> across similar examples.
>>
>> Madhav
>>
>> Madhav M. Deshpande
>> Professor of Sanskrit and Linguistics
>> Department of Asian Languages and Cultures
>> 202 South Thayer Street, Suite 6111
>> The University of Michigan
>> Ann Arbor, Michigan 48104-1608, USA
>> ________________________________________
>> From: Indology [INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Alexander von
>> Rospatt [rospatt at BERKELEY.EDU]
>> Sent: Friday, March 05, 2010 3:42 PM
>> To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk
>> Subject: Update: Berkeley Summer Program: Words of Wisdom: Toward  
>> a Western
>> Terminology for Buddhist Texts
>>
>> Dear Colleagues,
>>
>> there are still a few free places on the 2010 Berkeley Summer  
>> Program:
>> Words of Wisdom: Toward a Western Terminology for Buddhist Texts.
>>
>> I would be grateful if you could remind potentially interested  
>> students of
>> this special opportunity. The announcement can now also be found  
>> online at
>> http://mangalamresearch.org/summer.htm.
>>
>> With many thanks (and apologies for cross-listing with H-Buddhism),
>>
>>
>> Alexander von Rospatt
>>
>> ------------
>>
>> Mangalam Research Center for Buddhist Languages
>> Center for Buddhist Studies, University of California
>> Ho Center for Buddhist Studies, Stanford University
>>
>> Summer Program: Words of Wisdom: Toward a Western Terminology for  
>> Buddhist
>> Texts
>> Berkeley, CA, USA. June 14-July 2, 2010
>> Core Faculty: Luis Gomez, Michael Hahn
>> Associate Faculty: Paul Harrison, Alexander von Rospatt, Carmen  
>> Dragonetti,
>> Fernando Tola
>>
>> Putting the Dharma into the words of a new culture is a task that has
>> traditionally unfolded over several generations. In the West,  
>> where the
>> languages of educated discourse are sophisticated and rich with  
>> layers of
>> meaning, the challenges of being able to convey the Buddhist  
>> teachings as
>> faithfully as possible are especially daunting.
>> This intensive three-week program, intended primarily for graduate  
>> students
>> in Buddhism, Indology, or allied fields, is a small step toward a  
>> clear and
>> consistent terminology or (more modestly) developing skills and  
>> strategies
>> for finding the best translation equivalents in contemporary English.
>> The text for the program is the Vimalak?rtinirde?a-s?tra. We  
>> will read the
>> Sanskrit together with the Tibetan and Chinese translations. This  
>> close
>> reading will address problems of interpretation, as well as the  
>> technical
>> and stylistic challenges faced by the translator of classical  
>> Buddhist
>> texts. Students should have facility in Sanskrit; knowledge of  
>> Tibetan or
>> Chinese will be helpful.
>> Format and Facilities?Guided by distinguished faculty, students  
>> will meet 5
>> hours a day, five days a week to work with the challenges posed by  
>> the text.
>> Sessions will be held from 9:30 am ? 12:30 pm and 3:30 pm ?  
>> 5:30 pm. Meals
>> are provided, and housing is an easy walk. Students will have  
>> access to the
>> libraries of the Mangalam Research Center and the University of  
>> California
>> at Berkeley (a 10-minute walk). Rapid Transit to San Francisco is
>> half-a-block away.
>> Focus?The focus will be on key terms of the Vimalak?rtinirde?a- 
>> s?tra in the
>> context of the profound Mahayana vision it sets forth. We will  
>> examine
>> vocabulary choices in  both source and target languages, sensitive  
>> to subtle
>> shifts in meaning between languages with different philosophical
>> underpinnings. Among the topics to be explored and skills to be  
>> honed:
>> ?  Sanskrit roots, etymology, and the relation of Buddhist  
>> Sanskrit to
>> other forms of Sanskrit
>> ?  Issues of context and intertexuality.
>> ?  comparison with the Tibetan and Chinese, with reference to  
>> commentaries.
>> ?  stylistic choices and terminology in existing translations in  
>> both
>> canonical and modern languages
>> ?  general issues in the theory and practice of translation as  
>> they arise
>> in rendering a classic Buddh ist text into a modern idiom.
>> Costs: Tuition: $1,200 (includes lunch daily). Food and lodging:  
>> $1,350.
>> Total cost: $2,550.
>>
>> Applications?The program is intended for advanced graduate  
>> students, but
>> applications from all qualified candidates will be considered.  
>> Please submit
>> an application by March 15, 2010 to  
>> summerprograms at mangalamresearch.org.
>> Include a short statement of purpose, a description of language  
>> skills and
>> how acquired, and a 1?2 paragraph letter of endorsement from your  
>> principal
>> adviser. Students completing the program will receive a formal  
>> letter from
>> the Buddhist Studies program of the University of California,  
>> Berkeley,
>> certifying that the course corresponds to a semester long graduate  
>> seminar
>> of fifteen weeks with five hours of instruction per week."
>>
>>  Maximum number of participants is 15. Applicants will be notified  
>> by April
>> 10, 2010.
>>

============
Michael Witzel
witzel at fas.harvard.edu
<www.fas.harvard.edu/~witzel/mwpage.htm>

Dept. of Sanskrit & Indian Studies, Harvard University
1 Bow Street,
Cambridge MA 02138, USA

phone: 1- 617 - 495 3295, 496 8570, fax 617 - 496 8571;
my direct line:  617- 496 2990




From kiepue at T-ONLINE.DE  Mon Mar  8 10:55:21 2010
From: kiepue at T-ONLINE.DE (=?utf-8?Q?petra_kieffer-P=C3=BClz?=)
Date: Mon, 08 Mar 10 11:55:21 +0100
Subject: upodghata
Message-ID: <161227088792.23782.9646224117015155926.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Dear All,

I am in search of a parallel in Sanskrit for the following verse from  
the Vajirabuddhi??k?

upoggh?to pada? c' eva padattho padaviggaho
codan? pratyavajj?na? by?khy? tantassa chabbiddh?

The six terms as given in this verse do not tally with the standard  
terms (sambandha, pada, padattha, padaviggaha, codan?, parih?ra)  
given in the P?li literature from ca. the tenth century onwards as  
the categories relevant for writers of commentaries. Words like  
upoggh?ta, pratyavajj?na, vy?khy? used in this verse make it  
probable that Vajirabuddhi based himself on some Sanskrit source.

Below are the terms for which alternatives are used in P?li literature:

upoggh?ta = sambandha = nid?na? = nidassana?
codan? = anuyoga = c?lan?
parih?ra = paccupa??h?na? = pratyavajj?na?


Any suggestions are welcome.
Petra Kieffer-P?lz

**************
Dr. Petra Kieffer-P?lz
Wilhelm-K?lz-Str. 2
99423 Weimar
Germany
Tel. 03643/770447
kiepue at t-online.de




From hwtull at MSN.COM  Mon Mar  8 16:57:21 2010
From: hwtull at MSN.COM (Herman Tull)
Date: Mon, 08 Mar 10 11:57:21 -0500
Subject: "Saisha" as the name of a goddess?
In-Reply-To: <363E01E7-F33C-4C31-B5A8-E9613E382F14@fas.harvard.edu>
Message-ID: <161227088811.23782.16112934836718247535.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

"ka" is perhaps the best known pronoun to undergo this sort of 
transformation.  But, one doesn't hear of many children with this name.

Herman Tull

--------------------------------------------------
From: "Michael Witzel" <witzel at FAS.HARVARD.EDU>
Sent: Monday, March 08, 2010 11:44 AM
To: <INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: "Saisha" as the name of a goddess?

> Naciketas / Naciket?  <   na ciketa,  --  well he learned something...
>
> s?man = s? + ama   : s? = eye,  ama = mind   (in Brahmana texts,  ChU 
> 1.7.1)
>
> ...
>
> MW
>
> On Mar 8, 2010, at 11:22 AM, Dominik Wujastyk wrote:
>
>> ko j?n?ti?
>>
>>
>> On 8 March 2010 15:39, Deshpande, Madhav <mmdesh at umich.edu> wrote:
>>
>>> Dear Indologists,
>>>
>>> Recently I met a Brahmin family from Karnataka who have a newborn 
>>> daughter
>>> named "Saisha".  They asked me what the word means.  I could not  think 
>>> of a
>>> Sanskrit word close to "Saisha."  Then the grandfather said that  this 
>>> is a
>>> name of goddess Lakshmi used in a Sanskrit stotra popular among 
>>> followers of
>>> Ramanuja.  The line from the stotra he recited was:  sai?? dev?
>>> sakala-bhuvana-pr?rthan?-k?madhenu?.  It was immediately  apparent to me 
>>> that
>>> the "Saisha" was simply s? e??, and not a name of the goddess,  but I 
>>> was not
>>> able to convince the grandfather of the child, who fervently  argued 
>>> that
>>> "Saisha" was an authentic name of the goddess.  I wonder if others  have 
>>> come
>>> across similar examples.
>>>
>>> Madhav
>>>
>>> Madhav M. Deshpande
>>> Professor of Sanskrit and Linguistics
>>> Department of Asian Languages and Cultures
>>> 202 South Thayer Street, Suite 6111
>>> The University of Michigan
>>> Ann Arbor, Michigan 48104-1608, USA
>>> ________________________________________
>>> From: Indology [INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Alexander von
>>> Rospatt [rospatt at BERKELEY.EDU]
>>> Sent: Friday, March 05, 2010 3:42 PM
>>> To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk
>>> Subject: Update: Berkeley Summer Program: Words of Wisdom: Toward  a 
>>> Western
>>> Terminology for Buddhist Texts
>>>
>>> Dear Colleagues,
>>>
>>> there are still a few free places on the 2010 Berkeley Summer  Program:
>>> Words of Wisdom: Toward a Western Terminology for Buddhist Texts.
>>>
>>> I would be grateful if you could remind potentially interested  students 
>>> of
>>> this special opportunity. The announcement can now also be found  online 
>>> at
>>> http://mangalamresearch.org/summer.htm.
>>>
>>> With many thanks (and apologies for cross-listing with H-Buddhism),
>>>
>>>
>>> Alexander von Rospatt
>>>
>>> ------------
>>>
>>> Mangalam Research Center for Buddhist Languages
>>> Center for Buddhist Studies, University of California
>>> Ho Center for Buddhist Studies, Stanford University
>>>
>>> Summer Program: Words of Wisdom: Toward a Western Terminology for 
>>> Buddhist
>>> Texts
>>> Berkeley, CA, USA. June 14-July 2, 2010
>>> Core Faculty: Luis Gomez, Michael Hahn
>>> Associate Faculty: Paul Harrison, Alexander von Rospatt, Carmen 
>>> Dragonetti,
>>> Fernando Tola
>>>
>>> Putting the Dharma into the words of a new culture is a task that has
>>> traditionally unfolded over several generations. In the West,  where the
>>> languages of educated discourse are sophisticated and rich with  layers 
>>> of
>>> meaning, the challenges of being able to convey the Buddhist  teachings 
>>> as
>>> faithfully as possible are especially daunting.
>>> This intensive three-week program, intended primarily for graduate 
>>> students
>>> in Buddhism, Indology, or allied fields, is a small step toward a  clear 
>>> and
>>> consistent terminology or (more modestly) developing skills and 
>>> strategies
>>> for finding the best translation equivalents in contemporary English.
>>> The text for the program is the Vimalak?rtinirde?a-s?tra. We  will read 
>>> the
>>> Sanskrit together with the Tibetan and Chinese translations. This  close
>>> reading will address problems of interpretation, as well as the 
>>> technical
>>> and stylistic challenges faced by the translator of classical  Buddhist
>>> texts. Students should have facility in Sanskrit; knowledge of  Tibetan 
>>> or
>>> Chinese will be helpful.
>>> Format and Facilities?Guided by distinguished faculty, students  will 
>>> meet 5
>>> hours a day, five days a week to work with the challenges posed by  the 
>>> text.
>>> Sessions will be held from 9:30 am ? 12:30 pm and 3:30 pm ?  5:30 pm. 
>>> Meals
>>> are provided, and housing is an easy walk. Students will have  access to 
>>> the
>>> libraries of the Mangalam Research Center and the University of 
>>> California
>>> at Berkeley (a 10-minute walk). Rapid Transit to San Francisco is
>>> half-a-block away.
>>> Focus?The focus will be on key terms of the Vimalak?rtinirde?a- s?tra in 
>>> the
>>> context of the profound Mahayana vision it sets forth. We will  examine
>>> vocabulary choices in  both source and target languages, sensitive  to 
>>> subtle
>>> shifts in meaning between languages with different philosophical
>>> underpinnings. Among the topics to be explored and skills to be  honed:
>>> ?  Sanskrit roots, etymology, and the relation of Buddhist  Sanskrit to
>>> other forms of Sanskrit
>>> ?  Issues of context and intertexuality.
>>> ?  comparison with the Tibetan and Chinese, with reference to 
>>> commentaries.
>>> ?  stylistic choices and terminology in existing translations in  both
>>> canonical and modern languages
>>> ?  general issues in the theory and practice of translation as  they 
>>> arise
>>> in rendering a classic Buddh ist text into a modern idiom.
>>> Costs: Tuition: $1,200 (includes lunch daily). Food and lodging: 
>>> $1,350.
>>> Total cost: $2,550.
>>>
>>> Applications?The program is intended for advanced graduate  students, 
>>> but
>>> applications from all qualified candidates will be considered.  Please 
>>> submit
>>> an application by March 15, 2010 to 
>>> summerprograms at mangalamresearch.org.
>>> Include a short statement of purpose, a description of language  skills 
>>> and
>>> how acquired, and a 1?2 paragraph letter of endorsement from your 
>>> principal
>>> adviser. Students completing the program will receive a formal  letter 
>>> from
>>> the Buddhist Studies program of the University of California,  Berkeley,
>>> certifying that the course corresponds to a semester long graduate 
>>> seminar
>>> of fifteen weeks with five hours of instruction per week."
>>>
>>>  Maximum number of participants is 15. Applicants will be notified  by 
>>> April
>>> 10, 2010.
>>>
>
> ============
> Michael Witzel
> witzel at fas.harvard.edu
> <www.fas.harvard.edu/~witzel/mwpage.htm>
>
> Dept. of Sanskrit & Indian Studies, Harvard University
> 1 Bow Street,
> Cambridge MA 02138, USA
>
> phone: 1- 617 - 495 3295, 496 8570, fax 617 - 496 8571;
> my direct line:  617- 496 2990
> 




From emstern at VERIZON.NET  Mon Mar  8 17:24:04 2010
From: emstern at VERIZON.NET (Elliot M. Stern)
Date: Mon, 08 Mar 10 12:24:04 -0500
Subject: upodghata
In-Reply-To: <B924D027-C5F1-43CC-9DEE-AE40B1926CCA@t-online.de>
Message-ID: <161227088813.23782.1355376594966020517.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

A quick Google search brought up this verse, from the beginning of folio 2a in Tisa?a's Cikits?kalik? with commentary, in number 947 (Chambers 711) on page 293 of Verzeichniss der Sanskrit-Handschriften, volume 1 of Die Handschriften-Verzeichnisse der Koeniglichen Bibliothek (Berlin, 1853).  The book is available on Googlebooks. 

upo]dgh?ta? pada? caiva pad?rtha? padavigraha? v?san?pratavastha?na? vy?khy? tantrasya ?a?vidh?

Cikits?kalik? has been published together with a commentary by his son Candra?a, but I do not have volume in my personal library. The verse, which evidently is cited in Candra?a's commentary, does not appear in the excerpts from the commentary in Julius Jolly, Zur Quellenkunde der Indischen Medezin 4..., ZDMG 60:413-468.

Elliot M. Stern
552 South 48th Street
Philadelphia, PA 19143-2029
United States of America
telephone: 215-747-6204
mobile: 267-240-8418
emstern at verizon.net



On 08 Mar  2010, at 5:55 AM, petra kieffer-P?lz wrote:

> Dear All,
> 
> I am in search of a parallel in Sanskrit for the following verse from the Vajirabuddhi??k?
> 
> upoggh?to pada? c' eva padattho padaviggaho
> codan? pratyavajj?na? by?khy? tantassa chabbiddh?
> 
> The six terms as given in this verse do not tally with the standard terms (sambandha, pada, padattha, padaviggaha, codan?, parih?ra) given in the P?li literature from ca. the tenth century onwards as the categories relevant for writers of commentaries. Words like upoggh?ta, pratyavajj?na, vy?khy? used in this verse make it probable that Vajirabuddhi based himself on some Sanskrit source.
> 
> Below are the terms for which alternatives are used in P?li literature:
> 
> upoggh?ta = sambandha = nid?na? = nidassana?
> codan? = anuyoga = c?lan?
> parih?ra = paccupa??h?na? = pratyavajj?na?
> 
> 
> Any suggestions are welcome.
> Petra Kieffer-P?lz
> 
> **************
> Dr. Petra Kieffer-P?lz
> Wilhelm-K?lz-Str. 2
> 99423 Weimar
> Germany
> Tel. 03643/770447
> kiepue at t-online.de




From gthomgt at COMCAST.NET  Mon Mar  8 17:43:28 2010
From: gthomgt at COMCAST.NET (george thompson)
Date: Mon, 08 Mar 10 12:43:28 -0500
Subject: "Saisha" as the name of a goddess?
In-Reply-To: <d1c0c7391003080822o263df04bx1b08fb2642d0dfeb@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <161227088817.23782.8215980266841672077.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

kasmai devaaya havi.saa vidhema

GT

Dominik Wujastyk wrote:

>ko j?n?ti?
>
>
>On 8 March 2010 15:39, Deshpande, Madhav <mmdesh at umich.edu> wrote:
>
>  
>
>>Dear Indologists,
>>
>>Recently I met a Brahmin family from Karnataka who have a newborn daughter
>>named "Saisha".  They asked me what the word means.  I could not think of a
>>Sanskrit word close to "Saisha."  Then the grandfather said that this is a
>>name of goddess Lakshmi used in a Sanskrit stotra popular among followers of
>>Ramanuja.  The line from the stotra he recited was:  sai?? dev?
>>sakala-bhuvana-pr?rthan?-k?madhenu?.  It was immediately apparent to me that
>>the "Saisha" was simply s? e??, and not a name of the goddess, but I was not
>>able to convince the grandfather of the child, who fervently argued that
>>"Saisha" was an authentic name of the goddess.  I wonder if others have come
>>across similar examples.
>>
>>Madhav
>>
>>Madhav M. Deshpande
>>Professor of Sanskrit and Linguistics
>>Department of Asian Languages and Cultures
>>202 South Thayer Street, Suite 6111
>>The University of Michigan
>>Ann Arbor, Michigan 48104-1608, USA
>>________________________________________
>>From: Indology [INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Alexander von
>>Rospatt [rospatt at BERKELEY.EDU]
>>Sent: Friday, March 05, 2010 3:42 PM
>>To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk
>>Subject: Update: Berkeley Summer Program: Words of Wisdom: Toward a Western
>>Terminology for Buddhist Texts
>>
>>Dear Colleagues,
>>
>>there are still a few free places on the 2010 Berkeley Summer Program:
>>Words of Wisdom: Toward a Western Terminology for Buddhist Texts.
>>
>>I would be grateful if you could remind potentially interested students of
>>this special opportunity. The announcement can now also be found online at
>>http://mangalamresearch.org/summer.htm.
>>
>>With many thanks (and apologies for cross-listing with H-Buddhism),
>>
>>
>>Alexander von Rospatt
>>
>>------------
>>
>>Mangalam Research Center for Buddhist Languages
>>Center for Buddhist Studies, University of California
>>Ho Center for Buddhist Studies, Stanford University
>>
>>Summer Program: Words of Wisdom: Toward a Western Terminology for Buddhist
>>Texts
>>Berkeley, CA, USA. June 14-July 2, 2010
>>Core Faculty: Luis Gomez, Michael Hahn
>>Associate Faculty: Paul Harrison, Alexander von Rospatt, Carmen Dragonetti,
>>Fernando Tola
>>
>>Putting the Dharma into the words of a new culture is a task that has
>>traditionally unfolded over several generations. In the West, where the
>>languages of educated discourse are sophisticated and rich with layers of
>>meaning, the challenges of being able to convey the Buddhist teachings as
>>faithfully as possible are especially daunting.
>>This intensive three-week program, intended primarily for graduate students
>>in Buddhism, Indology, or allied fields, is a small step toward a clear and
>>consistent terminology or (more modestly) developing skills and strategies
>>for finding the best translation equivalents in contemporary English.
>>The text for the program is the Vimalak?rtinirde?a-s?tra. We will read the
>>Sanskrit together with the Tibetan and Chinese translations. This close
>>reading will address problems of interpretation, as well as the technical
>>and stylistic challenges faced by the translator of classical Buddhist
>>texts. Students should have facility in Sanskrit; knowledge of Tibetan or
>>Chinese will be helpful.
>>Format and Facilities?Guided by distinguished faculty, students will meet 5
>>hours a day, five days a week to work with the challenges posed by the text.
>>Sessions will be held from 9:30 am ? 12:30 pm and 3:30 pm ? 5:30 pm. Meals
>>are provided, and housing is an easy walk. Students will have access to the
>>libraries of the Mangalam Research Center and the University of California
>>at Berkeley (a 10-minute walk). Rapid Transit to San Francisco is
>>half-a-block away.
>>Focus?The focus will be on key terms of the Vimalak?rtinirde?a-s?tra in the
>>context of the profound Mahayana vision it sets forth. We will examine
>>vocabulary choices in  both source and target languages, sensitive to subtle
>>shifts in meaning between languages with different philosophical
>>underpinnings. Among the topics to be explored and skills to be honed:
>>?  Sanskrit roots, etymology, and the relation of Buddhist Sanskrit to
>>other forms of Sanskrit
>>?  Issues of context and intertexuality.
>>?  comparison with the Tibetan and Chinese, with reference to commentaries.
>>?  stylistic choices and terminology in existing translations in both
>>canonical and modern languages
>>?  general issues in the theory and practice of translation as they arise
>>in rendering a classic Buddh ist text into a modern idiom.
>>Costs: Tuition: $1,200 (includes lunch daily). Food and lodging: $1,350.
>>Total cost: $2,550.
>>
>>Applications?The program is intended for advanced graduate students, but
>>applications from all qualified candidates will be considered. Please submit
>>an application by March 15, 2010 to summerprograms at mangalamresearch.org.
>>Include a short statement of purpose, a description of language skills and
>>how acquired, and a 1?2 paragraph letter of endorsement from your principal
>>adviser. Students completing the program will receive a formal letter from
>>the Buddhist Studies program of the University of California, Berkeley,
>>certifying that the course corresponds to a semester long graduate seminar
>>of fifteen weeks with five hours of instruction per week."
>>
>> Maximum number of participants is 15. Applicants will be notified by April
>>10, 2010.
>>
>>    
>>
>
>  
>




From emstern at VERIZON.NET  Mon Mar  8 18:01:33 2010
From: emstern at VERIZON.NET (Elliot M. Stern)
Date: Mon, 08 Mar 10 13:01:33 -0500
Subject: upodghata
In-Reply-To: <71FB6793-B5B7-44B6-8299-B50921F35EA9@verizon.net>
Message-ID: <161227088822.23782.16137371231914001027.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Sorry for the typos! This should be correct:

> upo]dgh?ta? pada? caiva pad?rtha? padavigraha? v?san?pratyavasth?na? vy?khy? tantrasya ?a?vidh?



Elliot M. Stern
552 South 48th Street
Philadelphia, PA 19143-2029
United States of America
telephone: 215-747-6204
mobile: 267-240-8418
emstern at verizon.net



On 08 Mar  2010, at 12:24 PM, Elliot M. Stern wrote:

> A quick Google search brought up this verse, from the beginning of folio 2a in Tisa?a's Cikits?kalik? with commentary, in number 947 (Chambers 711) on page 293 of Verzeichniss der Sanskrit-Handschriften, volume 1 of Die Handschriften-Verzeichnisse der Koeniglichen Bibliothek (Berlin, 1853).  The book is available on Googlebooks. 
> 
> upo]dgh?ta? pada? caiva pad?rtha? padavigraha? v?san?pratavastha?na? vy?khy? tantrasya ?a?vidh?
> 
> Cikits?kalik? has been published together with a commentary by his son Candra?a, but I do not have volume in my personal library. The verse, which evidently is cited in Candra?a's commentary, does not appear in the excerpts from the commentary in Julius Jolly, Zur Quellenkunde der Indischen Medezin 4..., ZDMG 60:413-468.
> 
> Elliot M. Stern
> 552 South 48th Street
> Philadelphia, PA 19143-2029
> United States of America
> telephone: 215-747-6204
> mobile: 267-240-8418
> emstern at verizon.net
> 
> 
> 
> On 08 Mar  2010, at 5:55 AM, petra kieffer-P?lz wrote:
> 
>> Dear All,
>> 
>> I am in search of a parallel in Sanskrit for the following verse from the Vajirabuddhi??k?
>> 
>> upoggh?to pada? c' eva padattho padaviggaho
>> codan? pratyavajj?na? by?khy? tantassa chabbiddh?
>> 
>> The six terms as given in this verse do not tally with the standard terms (sambandha, pada, padattha, padaviggaha, codan?, parih?ra) given in the P?li literature from ca. the tenth century onwards as the categories relevant for writers of commentaries. Words like upoggh?ta, pratyavajj?na, vy?khy? used in this verse make it probable that Vajirabuddhi based himself on some Sanskrit source.
>> 
>> Below are the terms for which alternatives are used in P?li literature:
>> 
>> upoggh?ta = sambandha = nid?na? = nidassana?
>> codan? = anuyoga = c?lan?
>> parih?ra = paccupa??h?na? = pratyavajj?na?
>> 
>> 
>> Any suggestions are welcome.
>> Petra Kieffer-P?lz
>> 
>> **************
>> Dr. Petra Kieffer-P?lz
>> Wilhelm-K?lz-Str. 2
>> 99423 Weimar
>> Germany
>> Tel. 03643/770447
>> kiepue at t-online.de




From wujastyk at GMAIL.COM  Mon Mar  8 16:22:31 2010
From: wujastyk at GMAIL.COM (Dominik Wujastyk)
Date: Mon, 08 Mar 10 17:22:31 +0100
Subject: "Saisha" as the name of a goddess?
In-Reply-To: <3AF9B038A6B07641B36C799ED4EBB0D704D4B4E4C0@ITCS-ECLS-1-VS3.adsroot.itcs.umich.edu>
Message-ID: <161227088806.23782.1849034945625976342.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

ko j?n?ti?


On 8 March 2010 15:39, Deshpande, Madhav <mmdesh at umich.edu> wrote:

> Dear Indologists,
>
> Recently I met a Brahmin family from Karnataka who have a newborn daughter
> named "Saisha".  They asked me what the word means.  I could not think of a
> Sanskrit word close to "Saisha."  Then the grandfather said that this is a
> name of goddess Lakshmi used in a Sanskrit stotra popular among followers of
> Ramanuja.  The line from the stotra he recited was:  sai?? dev?
> sakala-bhuvana-pr?rthan?-k?madhenu?.  It was immediately apparent to me that
> the "Saisha" was simply s? e??, and not a name of the goddess, but I was not
> able to convince the grandfather of the child, who fervently argued that
> "Saisha" was an authentic name of the goddess.  I wonder if others have come
> across similar examples.
>
> Madhav
>
> Madhav M. Deshpande
> Professor of Sanskrit and Linguistics
> Department of Asian Languages and Cultures
> 202 South Thayer Street, Suite 6111
> The University of Michigan
> Ann Arbor, Michigan 48104-1608, USA
> ________________________________________
> From: Indology [INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Alexander von
> Rospatt [rospatt at BERKELEY.EDU]
> Sent: Friday, March 05, 2010 3:42 PM
> To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk
> Subject: Update: Berkeley Summer Program: Words of Wisdom: Toward a Western
> Terminology for Buddhist Texts
>
> Dear Colleagues,
>
> there are still a few free places on the 2010 Berkeley Summer Program:
> Words of Wisdom: Toward a Western Terminology for Buddhist Texts.
>
> I would be grateful if you could remind potentially interested students of
> this special opportunity. The announcement can now also be found online at
> http://mangalamresearch.org/summer.htm.
>
> With many thanks (and apologies for cross-listing with H-Buddhism),
>
>
> Alexander von Rospatt
>
> ------------
>
> Mangalam Research Center for Buddhist Languages
> Center for Buddhist Studies, University of California
> Ho Center for Buddhist Studies, Stanford University
>
> Summer Program: Words of Wisdom: Toward a Western Terminology for Buddhist
> Texts
> Berkeley, CA, USA. June 14-July 2, 2010
> Core Faculty: Luis Gomez, Michael Hahn
> Associate Faculty: Paul Harrison, Alexander von Rospatt, Carmen Dragonetti,
> Fernando Tola
>
> Putting the Dharma into the words of a new culture is a task that has
> traditionally unfolded over several generations. In the West, where the
> languages of educated discourse are sophisticated and rich with layers of
> meaning, the challenges of being able to convey the Buddhist teachings as
> faithfully as possible are especially daunting.
> This intensive three-week program, intended primarily for graduate students
> in Buddhism, Indology, or allied fields, is a small step toward a clear and
> consistent terminology or (more modestly) developing skills and strategies
> for finding the best translation equivalents in contemporary English.
> The text for the program is the Vimalak?rtinirde?a-s?tra. We will read the
> Sanskrit together with the Tibetan and Chinese translations. This close
> reading will address problems of interpretation, as well as the technical
> and stylistic challenges faced by the translator of classical Buddhist
> texts. Students should have facility in Sanskrit; knowledge of Tibetan or
> Chinese will be helpful.
> Format and Facilities?Guided by distinguished faculty, students will meet 5
> hours a day, five days a week to work with the challenges posed by the text.
> Sessions will be held from 9:30 am ? 12:30 pm and 3:30 pm ? 5:30 pm. Meals
> are provided, and housing is an easy walk. Students will have access to the
> libraries of the Mangalam Research Center and the University of California
> at Berkeley (a 10-minute walk). Rapid Transit to San Francisco is
> half-a-block away.
> Focus?The focus will be on key terms of the Vimalak?rtinirde?a-s?tra in the
> context of the profound Mahayana vision it sets forth. We will examine
> vocabulary choices in  both source and target languages, sensitive to subtle
> shifts in meaning between languages with different philosophical
> underpinnings. Among the topics to be explored and skills to be honed:
> ?  Sanskrit roots, etymology, and the relation of Buddhist Sanskrit to
> other forms of Sanskrit
> ?  Issues of context and intertexuality.
> ?  comparison with the Tibetan and Chinese, with reference to commentaries.
> ?  stylistic choices and terminology in existing translations in both
> canonical and modern languages
> ?  general issues in the theory and practice of translation as they arise
> in rendering a classic Buddh ist text into a modern idiom.
> Costs: Tuition: $1,200 (includes lunch daily). Food and lodging: $1,350.
> Total cost: $2,550.
>
> Applications?The program is intended for advanced graduate students, but
> applications from all qualified candidates will be considered. Please submit
> an application by March 15, 2010 to summerprograms at mangalamresearch.org.
> Include a short statement of purpose, a description of language skills and
> how acquired, and a 1?2 paragraph letter of endorsement from your principal
> adviser. Students completing the program will receive a formal letter from
> the Buddhist Studies program of the University of California, Berkeley,
> certifying that the course corresponds to a semester long graduate seminar
> of fifteen weeks with five hours of instruction per week."
>
>  Maximum number of participants is 15. Applicants will be notified by April
> 10, 2010.
>




From dbhattacharya2004 at YAHOO.CO.IN  Mon Mar  8 15:40:08 2010
From: dbhattacharya2004 at YAHOO.CO.IN (Dipak Bhattacharya)
Date: Mon, 08 Mar 10 21:10:08 +0530
Subject: "Saisha" as the name of a goddess?
In-Reply-To: <3AF9B038A6B07641B36C799ED4EBB0D704D4B4E4C0@ITCS-ECLS-1-VS3.adsroot.itcs.umich.edu>
Message-ID: <161227088804.23782.7598454617525302423.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Dear Madhavji,
evamkaaro ie the evam mayaa sutam the standard beginning of the Pali suttas became a holy?saying in Sanskrit Buddhism represented by a symbol in in Manranaya?;? michael means 'who is like God'?' You certainly know that?a deity has been addressed in the Rigveda ehimaayasa built from?ehi maa yaasiiH? 'come do not go'. Find some similarity? I think there are other example too.
DB

--- On Mon, 8/3/10, Deshpande, Madhav <mmdesh at UMICH.EDU> wrote:


From: Deshpande, Madhav <mmdesh at UMICH.EDU>
Subject: "Saisha" as the name of a goddess?
To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk
Date: Monday, 8 March, 2010, 8:09 PM


Dear Indologists,

Recently I met a Brahmin family from Karnataka who have a newborn daughter named "Saisha".? They asked me what the word means.? I could not think of a Sanskrit word close to "Saisha."? Then the grandfather said that this is a name of goddess Lakshmi used in a Sanskrit stotra popular among followers of Ramanuja.? The line from the stotra he recited was:? sai?? dev? sakala-bhuvana-pr?rthan?-k?madhenu?.? It was immediately apparent to me that the "Saisha" was simply s? e??, and not a name of the goddess, but I was not able to convince the grandfather of the child, who fervently argued that "Saisha" was an authentic name of the goddess.? I wonder if others have come across similar examples.

Madhav

Madhav M. Deshpande
Professor of Sanskrit and Linguistics
Department of Asian Languages and Cultures
202 South Thayer Street, Suite 6111
The University of Michigan
Ann Arbor, Michigan 48104-1608, USA
________________________________________
From: Indology [INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Alexander von Rospatt [rospatt at BERKELEY.EDU]
Sent: Friday, March 05, 2010 3:42 PM
To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk
Subject: Update: Berkeley Summer Program: Words of Wisdom: Toward a Western Terminology for Buddhist Texts

Dear Colleagues,

there are still a few free places on the 2010 Berkeley Summer Program: Words of Wisdom: Toward a Western Terminology for Buddhist Texts.

I would be grateful if you could remind potentially interested students of this special opportunity. The announcement can now also be found online at http://mangalamresearch.org/summer.htm. 

With many thanks (and apologies for cross-listing with H-Buddhism),


Alexander von Rospatt

------------

Mangalam Research Center for Buddhist Languages
Center for Buddhist Studies, University of California
Ho Center for Buddhist Studies, Stanford University

Summer Program: Words of Wisdom: Toward a Western Terminology for Buddhist Texts
Berkeley, CA, USA. June 14-July 2, 2010
Core Faculty: Luis Gomez, Michael Hahn
Associate Faculty: Paul Harrison, Alexander von Rospatt, Carmen Dragonetti, Fernando Tola

Putting the Dharma into the words of a new culture is a task that has traditionally unfolded over several generations. In the West, where the languages of educated discourse are sophisticated and rich with layers of meaning, the challenges of being able to convey the Buddhist teachings as faithfully as possible are especially daunting.
This intensive three-week program, intended primarily for graduate students in Buddhism, Indology, or allied fields, is a small step toward a clear and consistent terminology or (more modestly) developing skills and strategies for finding the best translation equivalents in contemporary English.
The text for the program is the Vimalak?rtinirde?a-s?tra. We will read the Sanskrit together with the Tibetan and Chinese translations. This close reading will address problems of interpretation, as well as the technical and stylistic challenges faced by the translator of classical Buddhist texts. Students should have facility in Sanskrit; knowledge of Tibetan or Chinese will be helpful.
Format and Facilities?Guided by distinguished faculty, students will meet 5 hours a day, five days a week to work with the challenges posed by the text. Sessions will be held from 9:30 am ? 12:30 pm and 3:30 pm ? 5:30 pm. Meals are provided, and housing is an easy walk. Students will have access to the libraries of the Mangalam Research Center and the University of California at Berkeley (a 10-minute walk). Rapid Transit to San Francisco is half-a-block away.
Focus?The focus will be on key terms of the Vimalak?rtinirde?a-s?tra in the context of the profound Mahayana vision it sets forth. We will examine vocabulary choices in? both source and target languages, sensitive to subtle shifts in meaning between languages with different philosophical underpinnings. Among the topics to be explored and skills to be honed:
?? Sanskrit roots, etymology, and the relation of Buddhist Sanskrit to other forms of Sanskrit
?? Issues of context and intertexuality.
?? comparison with the Tibetan and Chinese, with reference to commentaries.
?? stylistic choices and terminology in existing translations in both canonical and modern languages
?? general issues in the theory and practice of translation as they arise in rendering a classic Buddh ist text into a modern idiom.
Costs: Tuition: $1,200 (includes lunch daily). Food and lodging: $1,350. Total cost: $2,550.

Applications?The program is intended for advanced graduate students, but applications from all qualified candidates will be considered. Please submit an application by March 15, 2010 to summerprograms at mangalamresearch.org. Include a short statement of purpose, a description of language skills and how acquired, and a 1?2 paragraph letter of endorsement from your principal adviser. Students completing the program will receive a formal letter from the Buddhist Studies program of the University of California, Berkeley, certifying that the course corresponds to a semester long graduate seminar of fifteen weeks with five hours of instruction per week."

Maximum number of participants is 15. Applicants will be notified by April 10, 2010.



      The INTERNET now has a personality. YOURS! See your Yahoo! Homepage. http://in.yahoo.com/




From h.arganisjuarez at YAHOO.COM.MX  Tue Mar  9 14:42:31 2010
From: h.arganisjuarez at YAHOO.COM.MX (Horacio Francisco Arganis Juarez)
Date: Tue, 09 Mar 10 06:42:31 -0800
Subject: Supports Protest of Wendy Doniger's Anti-Hindu Work
Message-ID: <161227088831.23782.12885321453847363060.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Dear Professors:
 I don't want to take party for any site. But wiht all my repectfull to all of your fine persons. If somebody wants to know the other site from hindu believers, for to take a neutral and imparcial choice to give support, here you are the traditional hinduistic scholars rasons for their protest.
Wit my best whises
Lic. M.A. Horacio Francisco Arganis Ju?rez
Catedr?tico Investigador de la Universidad
Internacional Euroamericana.
Departamento de Filosof?a y Religi?n Comparada.
Miembro del Instituto de Estudios Filos?ficos de Saltillo A. C.
www.uie.edu.es


> > Namaste, 
> > ????The Vedic Friends Association
> > supports the endeavor 
> > to bring attention to the derogative work against
> Hindus
> > and the Vedic tradition 
> > of Wendy Doniger, especially her newest book
> > "Hindus--An Alternative History." 
> > She has been working this way for some time, and if
> this
> > book would be addressed 
> > toward Muslims or the Koran, you know that there would
> be
> > an uproar. But people 
> > think they can do anything when it is in regards to
> Hindus.
> > It is time that 
> > people should come to know that this will not be so
> easy,
> > and that Hindus are no 
> > longer such soft targets. It is time that all Hindus
> and
> > followers of the Vedic 
> > Dharma speak out against this kind of activity and
> writing
> > as displayed by this 
> > woman, and show how inaccurate is her rendition of
> the
> > Vedic tradition.? 
> > 
> > ????Hari Om,
> > ????Stephen Knapp
> > ????President of the Vedic Friends
> > Association
> > > ?
> > 
> > HINDU PROTEST MARCH IN NEW YORK CITY ?
> > 
> > 
> > Purpose: ? To protest the decision of National
> > Book Critics Circle to 
> > Honor Dr. Wendy
> > > ?? ? ? ? ? ? ?
> > ? ? 
> > Doniger?s latest book titled ?Hindus ? An
> Alternative
> > History?
> > 
> > 
> > Date: ? ? ? ?March 10, 2010
> > (Wednesday)
> > 
> > 
> > Time: ? ? ? ?5.30 p.m. to 7.30
> > p.m.
> > 
> > 
> > Venue: ? ? ?In front of New School
> > University Building
> > 
> >  > ?? ? ? ? ? ? ?
> > ? ? 66 
> > West 12th Street, New York, NY 10011?
> > ?
> > 
> > 
> > Brief Information?
> > Dr. Wendy Doniger is the Mircea Eliade Distinguished
> > Service Professor of 
> > the History of Religions at the University of Chicago
> > Divinity School. She is 
> > the author of several books on Hindu Scriptures. Her
> focus
> > has been on 
> > translating, interpreting and comparing elements of
> Hindu
> > Dharma through modern 
> > contexts of gender, sexuality and identity. ?
> > 
> > 
> > Almost all of her books contain factual errors,
> > mischaracterization s and is 
> > loaded with hatred for Hindus. Since most of her books
> are
> > interpretations of 
> > Ancient Hindu Scriptures, which is written in Ancient
> > Sanskrit, at the minimum, 
> > she must possess a working knowledge of Sanskrit. Dr.
> > Doniger?s Sanskrit 
> > credentials are as good as the Iranian President
> Mahmoud
> > Ahmadinejad?s 
> > scholarship on the Hebrew Language and the Jewish
> > Scriptures. Renowned Scholars 
> > of Sanskrit, from the West and India, have rejected
> Dr. > > Doniger?s deceptive 
> > claims of being a Sanskrit Scholar. But, due to the
> support
> > she receives from 
> > the University of Chicago Divinity School, a private
> > Christian Institution, and 
> > major American Publishers, many have endorsed her
> books
> > without considering her 
> > qualifications and overlooking Hindu Sentiments.
> Since
> > Hindus are deeply hurt by 
> > her writings, we are requesting the National Book
> Critic
> > Circle to respect the 
> > sentiments of a billion Hindus worldwide and withdraw
> the
> > name of Dr. Wendy 
> > Doniger being considered for its prestigious award in
> the
> > non-fiction category. 
> > Her book titled ?Hindus ? An Alternative
> History? is
> > a work that promotes 
> > bigotry, racism and intolerance. No civilized or
> decent
> > human being, 
> > organization or society will ever support such a book
> given
> > Dr. Doniger?s 
> > persistent verbal violence against the Hindus. We
> request
> > all Concerned Hindus 
> > to join us in the Protest March. ?
> > 
> > 
> > USHA (United States Hindu Alliance), is a national
> > organization of Hindus 
> > dedicated to protecting the interests of Hindus
> Worldwide.
> > We do not believe in 
> > any form of violence. We, as Hindus, believe that
> hurting
> > anyone, whether 
> > through speech, the written word or physical action
> are all
> > forms of violence. 
> > USHA will always protest against acts of racism,
> bigotry
> > and intolerance. The 
> > protest march is only a beginning. USHA is garnering
> > worldwide support for 
> > further actions against the writer and all those who
> > willingly and deliberately 
> > support her Anti-Hindu Agenda, including its publisher
> ?
> > Penguin Books. 
> > ?
> > 
> > 
> > IMPORTANT INSTRUCTIONS: In order to ensure the
> success
> > of this peaceful 
> > protest march, please register by sending an e-mail
> > confirmation to hinduamericans@
> > gmail.com. Vegetarian Samosas will be served 
> > after the March to registered participants. Placards
> for
> > use during the March 
> > will be provided by USHA volunteers at the venue. All
> > participants must adhere 
> > to the high standards of USHA and Hindu Scriptures.
> Even
> > though the book is 
> > highly provocative and insensitive to the sentiments
> of
> > Hindus, the use of any 
> > profane, indecent or uncharitable language is
> strictly
> > prohibited, and for the 
> > record, inconsistent with Hindu Belief and Practice.
> Only
> > pre-authorized 
> > Speakers will be allowed to address the participants.
> > ?
> > ?
> > 
> > 
> > For more information on USHA, please visit our
> website
> > at www.ushaonline.
> > org?
> > HAF Urges NBCC Not Honor Doniger's Latest
> > Book
> > 
> > 
> > New York, NY (February 5, 2009) - The Hindu American
> > Foundation sent the 
> > following letter to the President of the National
> Book
> > Critics Circle (NBCC), 
> > Jane Ciabattari, expressing its disappointment of the
> > short-listing of Professor 
> > Wendy Doniger's The Hindus: An Alternative History
> and
> > urging NBCC not bestow 
> > the 2009 nonfiction award to it.
> > ?
> > Dear Ms. Ciabattari,
> > ?
> > The Hindu American Foundation (HAF), a non-profit
> > advocacy organization for 
> > the two million strong Hindu American community,
> strongly
> > objects to NBCC's 
> > short-listing of Professor Wendy Doniger's The
> Hindus:
> > An Alternative History as 
> > a finalist in the "nonfiction" category.
> > ?Prof. Doniger is known for 
> > seeking and presenting provocative and idiosyncratic
> > sexually explicit and 
> > Freudian analyses of Hinduism's holiest books. ?In
> > The Hindus: An 
> > Alternative History she hues to the same, now tiring
> > interpretation of the acts, 
> > deeds and words attributed to Hindu deities and
> included in
> > Hindu scripture and 
> > sacred books. ?This has naturally stirred up strong
> > emotions in the Hindu 
> > community in India and in the Hindu Diaspora. Far
> from
> > encouraging thoughtful, 
> > careful and disciplined inquiry into others'
> histories
> > and belief systems, any 
> > award from NBCC for this book would merely fuel
> negative
> > sentiments among 
> > Hindus, and do a disservice to serious academic
> > inquiry.
> > ?
> > The Hindus: An Alternative History does not represent
> > nor provide insight 
> > into the contemporary practices and interpretations
> of
> > Hinduism and its 
> > scriptures. ?In the end, rather than offering the
> > reader a depiction of a 
> > family of vibrant religious traditions practiced by a
> > billion Hindus globally, 
> > Prof. Doniger offers an offensive, shocking, and
> gratuitous
> > deconstruction of 
> > some of the most important epics and episodes in
> Hindu
> > thought and belief. 
> > ?The pornographic depictions of Hindu Gods and
> > Goddesses in Prof. Doniger's 
> > books already grace the websites of some banefully
> > anti-Hindu hate sites with 
> > their own varied agendas.?
> > ?
> > Prof. Doniger denigrates the Gods and Goddesses that
> > Hindus worship. 
> > ?Parallelisms are proffered in this book comparing
> the
> > sacred stone icon 
> > representing Lord Shiva to a leather strap-on sex toy,
> and
> > Lord Rama, one of the 
> > most popular deities of Hindus, is accused of acting
> out of
> > fear that he was 
> > becoming a sex-addict like his father. ?A Danish
> > cartoonist would be hard 
> > pressed to match the disturbing parodies of a
> > believer's faith that Prof. 
> > Doniger offers here.
> > ?
> > Unfortunately, instead of answering her many Hindu
> > critics, Prof. Doniger 
> > sweepingly labels her Hindu critics as Hindu
> > fundamentalists, never bothering to 
> > analyze the legitimacy of arguments stemming from
> adherents
> > of the faith in 
> > which she claims scholarship. ?In her well-received
> > piece, "Oh, But You Do 
> > Get It Wrong", Aditi Banerjee, Esq., points out that
> > "Doniger ignores the 
> > prolific response to her work by the American Hindu
> > community, including dozens 
> > of published articles, countless public conferences,
> and
> > repeated calls for 
> > debate and dialogue between the academy and the
> > Hindu-American community." 
> > ?To add to Ms. Banerjee's last point, Prof.
> > Doniger represents what many 
> > believe to be a fundamental flaw in the academic study
> of
> > Hinduism: that Hindu 
> > studies is too often the last refuge of biased
> non-Hindu
> > academics presenting 
> > themselves as "experts" on a faith that they
> > study without the insight, 
> > recognition or reverence that a practicing Hindu or
> > non-Hindu striving to study 
> > Hinduism from the insider's perspective would offer.
> > ?While the Foundation 
> > believes in the freedom of expression, it takes issue
> with
> > Prof. Doniger's 
> > skewed and superficial analyses and the value, or
> lack
> > thereof, they bring to 
> > the study of Hinduism. ?A Freudian true-believer,
> > Prof. Doniger may believe 
> > that sex, desire and repressed urges animate the
> human
> > condition, but 
> > modern/humanistic psychology has challenged this
> school of
> > thought as limited 
> > and limiting. ?Using Freudian analysis, then, to
> > retrospectively find 
> > psychosexual motivations of Hindu deities seems
> egregiously
> > inappropriate and 
> > deliberately provocative.
> > ?
> > HAF urges NBCC not bestow such a distinguished honor
> > upon a piece of work 
> > that is not just degrading and insulting to one
> billion
> > Hindus worldwide but, 
> > frankly a distortion of the history of the Hindu
> faith.
> > ?Finally, the 
> > Foundation and its membership hopes NBCC takes into
> account
> > the numerous 
> > protests from the Hindu community by reexamining its
> > decision to short-list 
> > Prof. Doniger's book.
> > ?
> > The Hindu American Foundation Board of Directors and
> > staff members are 
> > available for an in-depth discussion with you and/or
> any
> > NBCC Board member at 
> > your convenience.
> > ?
> > Thank you,
> > Hindu American Foundation
> > http://www.hafsite.
> > org/media/ pr/nbccletter
> > For Immediate Release
> > March 1, 2010
> > 
> > 
> > USHA Urges NBCC Not to Honor Dr. Wendy
> > Doniger?
> > 
> > 
> > March 1, 2010 ? Atlanta - The United States Hindu
> > Alliance sent the 
> > following letter to the Board of New York based
> National
> > Book Critics Circle 
> > urging the literary body to withdraw the nomination of
> Dr.
> > Wendy Doniger for its 
> > National Award in the Non Fiction Category for her
> latest
> > book titled ?Hindus ? 
> > An Alternative History?.
> > 
> > 
> > TEXT OF THE LETTER TO NBCC PRESIDENT JANE
> > CIABATTARI:
> > 
> > 
> > Dear Ms. Ciabattari,
> > 
> > 
> > The United States Hindu Alliance is shocked to learn
> > that a literary 
> > organization of the stature of NBCC is considering
> > bestowing one of its 
> > prestigious Awards on Dr. Wendy Doniger for her
> latest
> > work, Hindus ? An 
> > Alternative History.?
> > 
> > 
> > Dr. Doniger who claims to be a Scholar of India?s
> > ancient Sanskrit Language 
> > may fool those who do not know the Sanskrit Language.
> But
> > renowned Western as 
> > well as Indian Sanskrit Scholars have repudiated her
> > knowledge of Sanskrit. Dr. 
> > Doniger has attempted to interpret Hindu Scriptures
> with
> > her primitive and 
> > superficial knowledge of the Sanskrit Language. It may
> be
> > safe to say that her 
> > knowledge of Sanskrit and the religious traditions of
> > Hindus are comparable to 
> > the Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad?s
> knowledge of
> > the Hebrew Language and 
> > the Jewish Scriptures.?
> > 
> > 
> > Moreover, Dr. Doniger has always attempted to analyze
> > and interpret Hindu 
> > Scriptures through modern contexts of gender,
> sexuality and
> > identity. Such an 
> > attempt is not only a farce but has no value in
> > understanding the complex and 
> > profound philosophical underpinnings and symbolism of
> one
> > of the most ancient 
> > religious traditions of the world. In her effort to
> impose
> > her perverted views 
> > on Hindu Scriptures, she has employed the most
> indecent,
> > distasteful and 
> > provocative language known to writers of any
> > language.?
> > 
> > 
> > Hindus believe in freedom of thought, expression and
> > worship for all. In 
> > the market place of ideas, we as humans are bound to
> > encounter works that go 
> > beyond human decency and civility. The world cannot
> stop
> > writers from 
> > expressing, even if they appear abhorrent and
> repulsive to
> > an entire population. 
> > However, a prestigious body like NBCC can insulate
> itself
> > from the worldwide 
> > negative publicity that is bound to be generated if
> your
> > Board moves forward on 
> > the decision to honor a first rate bigot and racist.
> We
> > hope you and your fellow 
> > Board Members will see the pain and anguish this
> Author of
> > Hate has caused for a 
> > billion Hindus. Hence, there are a billion compelling
> > reasons to reconsider your 
> > decision and we hope you do so in the interest of
> mutual
> > respect, mutual 
> > understanding and mutual love.
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > Thank you for your kind consideration.
> > 
> > 
> > Yours respectfully,
> > 
> > 
> > Gokul Kunnath
> > President
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> >? ???
> >? ? ? 
> > 
> >? ???
> >? ???__._,_.___
> > 
> >? ? ? ???
> >???
> >? ? 
> >? ???
> >? ? ???
> >? ? ? ???
> > ??? ? Reply to sender |
> >? ? ? ???
> > ??? ? Reply to group
> > |
> >? ? ?
> ?????? ? Reply
> > via web post |
> >? ? ? ? ?
> ?????? Start a New Topic
> >? ? ???
> > 
> >? ? ? ? ? ? ?
> ???Messages
> > in this topic
> >? ? ? ? ???(1)
> >? ? ? ? ? ? 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> >? ? ???Recent
> > Activity:
> > 
> >? ???
> >? ? ? ? ? ???
> >? ? ???New Members
> >? ? ???1
> >? ???
> >? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?
> ? ? ? ? ? ?
> ???
> >? ???
> >???
> >? ???Visit Your Group
> >???
> > 
> > 
> >???
> > 
> >???
> >???Switch to: Text-Only, Daily Digest
> ? Unsubscribe ? Terms of Use
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> >? ? 
> > 
> >???
> >???
> >???
> > 
> > 
> > 
> >? ? ? 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> >? ? ? 
> > 
> >???.
> > 
> > 
> >? ? 
> > 
> > 
> > __,_._,___
> > 
> > 
> >? 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> >???
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> 
> 
> ? ? ? Encuentra las mejores recetas en
> Yahoo! Cocina.? ? ? ? ? ?
> ? ? ? ? ???
> http://mx.mujer.yahoo.com/cocina/
> 


      Encuentra las mejores recetas en Yahoo! Cocina.                       
http://mx.mujer.yahoo.com/cocina/




From dxs163 at CASE.EDU  Tue Mar  9 13:59:10 2010
From: dxs163 at CASE.EDU (Deepak Sarma)
Date: Tue, 09 Mar 10 08:59:10 -0500
Subject: counter-petition in support of Doniger
Message-ID: <161227088829.23782.16732947970993735964.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Greetings All:
	 A counter-petition that is circulating in support of Doniger has come to my attention. Here is the note accompanying the counter-petition as well as the link ( http://petol.org/THAAH123) (embedded in the note). It appears that the author of the counter-petition is Raja Choudhury, whom I know nothing about. This seems germane to Indology as the petition was discussed a few weeks ago.

yours,

Deepak



> I am shocked to see that thousands of Hindus and Indians gathering online in a Taliban like way to force the withdrawal of Wendy Doniger's excellent book "The Hindus: An Alternative History" published by Penguin.
> 
> The petition for the withdrawal of the book can be read at http://www.PetitionOnline.com/dharma10/petition.html - where it describes the book as insulting and hurtful to Hindus and Indians everywhere. That is ridiculous.
> 
> In reaction to this I have launched a counter petition at http://petol.org/THAAH123 with a point by point response to their erroneous analysis and would be grateful if you could let everyone you know about this.
> 
> This petition is a counter response to the shameful demand for the withdrawal or banning of this excellent book. I support much of what the book purports and even more importantly I support Wendy Doniger's right to write, publish and propagate her opinion without the misplaced intervention of xenophobes and Indic or Hindu arrogance. I urge Penguin not to succumb to the pressure of this group and instead encourage them to take the high road as well as the path taken by most Hindus throughout history and allow for the free exchange of ideas, discussion and dialogue. We are an inclusive faith and an ever-absorbing people and do not condone xenophobia or prejudice of this kind. 
> 
> There is a big protest planned in favour of the book at the National Book Critics Center Awards on Wednesday 10 March 2010 at 6 pm in New York. Please do join or sign your name to our counter-petition.
> 
> Thank you all lovers of free speech and Hindu tolerance.
> 
> Raja Choudhury
> raja at c3cube.com
> +91 9871586502

Dr. Deepak Sarma

Associate Professor of Religious Studies
Associate Professor of Philosophy
Associate Professor of Bioethics
Asian Studies Faculty


Mailing Address:
Department of Religious Studies
111 Mather House
11201 Euclid Avenue
Case Western Reserve University
Cleveland, OH 44106-7112

office: 216-368-4790
fax: 216-368-4681
deepak.sarma at case.edu




From kauzeya at GMAIL.COM  Tue Mar  9 08:35:40 2010
From: kauzeya at GMAIL.COM (Jonathan Silk)
Date: Tue, 09 Mar 10 09:35:40 +0100
Subject: Positions available
Message-ID: <161227088824.23782.7022207136278328882.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

dear Colleagues,

Although the positions described in the project below are not in Indian
Studies (I myself will take care of the Indian side of things in this
project), they might be of interest to some colleagues and/or students whom
you know. I would consider it a great favor if you would circulate the
information on these openings as broadly as possible.

With appreciation, Jonathan

Faculty of Humanities, Institute for Area Studies, Buddhism and Social
Justice: Doctrine, Ideology and Discrimination in Tension*3x Ph.D and 1x
Post-Doc



Buddhism and Social Justice: Doctrine, Ideology  and Discrimination in
Tension



* The Leiden Institute for Area Studies (LIAS) is responsible for
researchers who are active in the fields of relations with East, South and
Central and Southeast Asia and the Middle East. The Institute is divided
into a School for Asian Studies and a School for Middle Eastern Studies. A
multidisciplinary approach which comprises both the modern and the
traditional periods is typical for the teaching and research within this
Institute, whereby the knowledge of the source language is essential. The
research of the approximately 75 staff members (including 20 professors)
brings together the study of such subjects as history, law, economy,
literature, religion and philology of the areas mentioned, both in the
present day and in ancient times.

Starting September 2010 the Leiden Institute for Area Studies has three full
time (38 hrs) vacancies, available as 4 year PhD positions, and starting
2011 one 3 year Post-Doctoral fellowship, in the VICI project "Buddhism and
Social Justice: Doctrine, Ideology  and Discrimination in Tension," headed
by Prof dr. Jonathan A. Silk.
Project description Buddhism is widely perceived to be, and Buddhist sources
themselves promote the tradition as, a philosophy of liberation. Yet, as
perhaps everywhere, Buddhist societies, both ancient and modern, not only
evidence, but indeed seem to promote, social inequalities. The project
?Buddhism and Social Justice? explores the inner tensions in Buddhist
cultures between inherited core values and social realities, with specific
foci on questions of labor (e.g., slavery and forced labor, serfdom) and
social status (e.g., caste and discrimination).

The project consists of five studies: a core investigation of slavery and
caste in India, and studies on slavery in Korea, burakumin (?outcastes?) in
Japan, ?serfdom? and monastic economy in Tibet, and ethnicity and Buddhism
in Sri Lanka. These are approached through text-historical, historical and a
socio-anthropological methods. The synergy between the projects lies in the
question of how Buddhist ways of thinking and acting inform and structure
historically Buddhist Asian societies, and how, correspondingly, Buddhist
ideologies and dogmas were transformed in historical contexts. This study
seeks therefore to uncover the links between the ancient and the modern and
the theoretical and the real-world, thereby leading both to a deeper
appreciation of how religious systems function in societies in general, and
to a more nuanced appreciation of the dynamics of historically Buddhist
societies in general, particularly with respect to questions of social
justice. As such, the work is situated not only within the realms of
Buddhist Studies and Asian History, but also at the juncture of Religious
Studies, Political Science and Anthropology, as it engages issues of Church
and Society, Slavery Studies, and the study of Race, Ethnicity and Caste.

*The available positions are as follows:



* *Post-doc: * Slavery in Korean Buddhism*.

vacancy number: 10-048*

*PhD 1: * *Burkumin* (?outcastes?) in Japanese Buddhism.
*vacancy number: 10-048a* *PhD 2: * ?Serfdom? and Tibetan Monastic Economy.
*
vacancy number: 10-048b* *PhD 3: * Ethnicity and Buddhism in Sri Lanka*.

vacancy number: 10-048c



* Please see the full project description at
http://www.hum.leiden.edu/lias/research/sas/vici-project-silk.html
Applicants for a PhD position, Task and Requirements:         *Task:*

   - The writing of a PhD dissertation;


   - publishing research results in the form of (an) article(s) and/or
   books;
   - presenting papers at (international) conferences, including the final
   conference of the project;
   - participation in local research meetings and PhD teaching;
   - organizing roundtable meetings and conferences in the framework of the
   research project.



   *Requirements:*


   -

   an MA, M.Phil or equivalent degree in a relevant field;
   -

   research knowledge of the language(s) necessary for the project;
   - fluency in English (spoken and written) and competence in other
   relevant modern languages;
   - ability to work independently.

Post-Doctoral Fellowship applicants should  have a demonstrably excellent
academic track record in Buddhist Studies, and hold a PhD in Buddhist
Studies or a related field, or its equivalent. They should have an excellent
command of English and be prepared to present their research results in
English. Applicants will teach a small number of courses on topics within
their area of specialization, and assist in guiding the PhD students.
Conditions
of employment The position of the Postdoctoral fellow is temporary, max.
three years with a full-time appointment (38 hours per week).
The position of PhD-fellow (?promovendus?) is temporary, max. four years
with a full-time appointment, and with an initial 18-month trial period.

The salary is determined in accordance with the current scales as set out in
the collective labor agreement for the Dutch universities (CAO):
Postdoctoral fellow: min. ? 2.379, max. ? 4.374
PhD fellow: min. ? 2.042 - max. ? 2.612 More informationFor more information
about the two positions please contact Prof. dr. J.A Silk,
tel. +31-71-5272510, email j.a.silk at hum.leidenuniv.nl. See the full project
description at
http://www.hum.leiden.edu/lias/research/sas/vici-project-silk.html Application
*PhD  candidates please send your application (in English), including:*

   - a cover letter stating your motivation for this position,
   - a CV
   - copies of your academic transcripts (or Dutch cijferlijst),
   - a writing sample (such as your MA thesis), and
   - two references.

*Post-doc candidates please send your application (in English), including:*

   - a cover letter stating your motivation for this position,
   - a CV,
   - copies of your academic transcripts,
   - a printed copy of your PhD thesis and other relevant publications, and
   - three references.


Please send your application indicating the application number to the
address below before the  *23 april 2010 *

vacature at hum.leidenuniv.nl




-- 
J. Silk
Instituut Kern / Universiteit Leiden
Postbus 9515
2300 RA Leiden
Netherlands




From drdavis at WISC.EDU  Tue Mar  9 15:55:50 2010
From: drdavis at WISC.EDU (Donald R Davis Jr)
Date: Tue, 09 Mar 10 09:55:50 -0600
Subject: Publication Announcement-The Spirit of Hindu Law
Message-ID: <161227088834.23782.6668261761550980414.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Dear Colleagues,

I am pleased to announce the publication of the following book:

Donald R. Davis, Jr. The Spirit of Hindu Law. Cambridge: Cambridge UP, 2010.
<www.cambridge.org/9780521877046>

Best regards,

Don Davis
Dept of Languages & Cultures of Asia
University of Wisconsin-Madison




From h.t.bakker at RUG.NL  Tue Mar  9 09:34:01 2010
From: h.t.bakker at RUG.NL (hans bakker)
Date: Tue, 09 Mar 10 10:34:01 +0100
Subject: Positions available
In-Reply-To: <c4c5a5431003090035m16a09f92l64afa3d36a7421a1@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <161227088827.23782.10287728301560374302.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Jonathan Silk wrote:
> dear Colleagues,
>
> Although the positions described in the project below are not in Indian
> Studies (I myself will take care of the Indian side of things in this
> project), they might be of interest to some colleagues and/or students whom
> you know. I would consider it a great favor if you would circulate the
> information on these openings as broadly as possible.
>
> With appreciation, Jonathan
>   
Dear Jonathan,

I admire you, I am proud to be your colleague and co-editor, but I don't 
envy you.  From ground-zero you have built up a very strong position in 
Buddhist studies in this country. This is all to your credit and to your 
credit alone.
With the Vici grant, I am sure, your situation within the faculty has 
been strengthened greatly (certainly vis-a-vis Japanese and Chinese 
studies, I would think),
and thanks to you (and the coming of Bisschop),  religious studies in 
Leiden is outflanking my own department here. As to the latter, it has 
proved
in the last 20 years that it is impossible to detach it form the 
Judo-Christian tradition. The still latently present spirit of the 
minister prevents a free cosmopolitan view, in which other religions are 
not (silently) judged inferior. Sometimes I have the feeling that I have 
cycled all my life against the wind. All the same, I do not envy you.
It is an enormous challenge that lies ahead of you. I have only one PhD 
and one post-doc at the moment, but they already give me headaches.
But I am convinced that you will cope with it. Therefore I admire you.

Yours, as ever,
Hans     

-- 

Prof Dr Hans T. Bakker
Institute of Indian Studies
University of Groningen
Oude Boteringestraat 23
9712 GC Groningen
the Netherlands
tel: +31.(0)50.363.5819
fax: +31.(0)50.363.7263
www.rug.nl/india




From vjroebuck at MACUNLIMITED.NET  Wed Mar 10 06:35:39 2010
From: vjroebuck at MACUNLIMITED.NET (Valerie J Roebuck)
Date: Wed, 10 Mar 10 06:35:39 +0000
Subject: Announcement: STIMW Seminar
Message-ID: <161227088838.23782.16070679271860970118.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

This year's 'Sanskritic Tradition in the Modern World' Seminar:


27th Annual STIMW Seminar

Fri 28 May 2009 10.30 a.m. - 5.00 p.m.

Martin Harris Centre, G16, University of Manchester

Programme 

10.30-10.55     Coffee and registration

11.00-11.40     Dr H Shastry  (Bharatiya Vidya Bhavan)
                         'New trends in conversational Sanskrit'
                         Discussant:  Mike Williams
                        
11.45-12.15     Dr Valerie Roebuck (University of Manchester)     
                         'Problems in translating the Dhammapada'

12.15-12.45     Dr Elisa Freschi (University of Rome, La Sapienza)
	'Proposals for the study of quotations in Indian philosophical texts'
	Discussant for both:  Jackie Hirst

12.50-1.50       Lunch

2.00-2.45         Prof Mandakranta Bose (University of British 
Columbia, Canada) 
                         'The sufferings of Sita in Bengali Rama tales 
and painted scrolls'
                         Discussant:  Hazel Collinson

2.50-3.30         Deepa Ganesh (University of Manchester)
	Dance
	Chair:  Jackie Hirst

3.30-3.55         Tea

4.00-4.40         Dr Anna King (University of Winchester)
	'The Glorious Disappearance of Vaishnavas'
	Discussant:  tbc

4.45-5.00         STIMW 2011


For further details and booking form, please see 
<http://www.arts.manchester.ac.uk/stimw>http://www.arts.manchester.ac.uk/stimw 
 
Bookings should be made with:
Hannah Mansell, STIMW, Conference Administrator
Martin Harris Centre for Music and Drama
School of Arts, Histories and Cultures
University of Manchester, Manchester M13 9PL

If you would like to be added to the STIMW mailing list, please email 
<mailto:hazel.collinson at postgrad.manchester.ac.uk>hazel.collinson at postgrad.manchester.ac.uk 
 




From pankajaindia at GMAIL.COM  Wed Mar 10 11:19:57 2010
From: pankajaindia at GMAIL.COM (Pankaj_Jain)
Date: Wed, 10 Mar 10 11:19:57 +0000
Subject: This Summer: Sanskrit and "Bollywood" Online Courses from NC              State University
Message-ID: <161227088840.23782.10670297818677282605.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Hello and Namaste,

Please share the following info with anyone interested:

I am offering three online courses this summer (May-June 2010) from NC
State's distance education program, each worth three university credits that
can be transferred to any other university:

Elementary Sanskrit 101:
http://delta.ncsu.edu/apps/coursedetail/index.php?id=FL:295::601:SUM1:2010

Elementary Sanskrit 102:
http://delta.ncsu.edu/apps/coursedetail/index.php?id=FL:295::601:SUM2:2010

"Bollywood":Films and Religions of South Asia:
http://delta.ncsu.edu/apps/coursedetail/index.php?id=FL:295::602:SUM2:2010

Thanks and regards,
Pankaj



--------------------------------------------------------
Dr. Pankaj Jain ???? ???
Teaching Assistant Professor
Department of Foreign Languages and Literatures
Department of Philosophy and Religious Studies
Science, Technology & Society Program
North Carolina State University
http://fll.chass.ncsu.edu/faculty_staff/pjain5




From r.mahoney at INDICA-ET-BUDDHICA.ORG  Wed Mar 10 03:44:25 2010
From: r.mahoney at INDICA-ET-BUDDHICA.ORG (Richard MAHONEY)
Date: Wed, 10 Mar 10 16:44:25 +1300
Subject: DIGITAL RESOURCE> Update on Philologica Indica et Buddhica
Message-ID: <161227088836.23782.13603580477922042732.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Dear Colleagues,

Many of you know that for some time I've been working on the
development of the SARIT Project. I've enjoyed this work but it's
meant that the growth of Indica et Buddhica has been slower than I'd
like.

Now, having recently released Christian Wedemeyer's
_Cary?mel?pakaprad?pa_, I'll be leaving the SARIT Project at the end
of this month. This will free me to devote more time to Philologica
Indica et Buddhica, a textual analysis platform online since mid 2006:

 Philologica Indica et Buddhica
 http://philologica.indica-et-buddhica.org/top.shtml

Philologica already provides a variety of texts for Classical Indian
and Buddhist Studies:

 Philologica Indica et Buddhica :: Digital texts available
 http://philologica.indica-et-buddhica.org/available.shtml

The emphasis will now turn to publishing digital editions reflecting
recent developments in text critical reasearch. The aim is to make
editions that currently appear in print or are embedded in doctorates
freely available.

Interested authors, editors and publishers are asked to contact me for
details.


Best regards,

 Richard Mahoney



-- 
Richard MAHONEY

Littledene, Bay Road, OXFORD 7430, NZ
PO Box 25, OXFORD 7443
+64 3 312 1699 / +64 275 829 986
r.mahoney at indica-et-buddhica.org
http://indica-et-buddhica.org




From rsalomon at U.WASHINGTON.EDU  Thu Mar 11 18:20:23 2010
From: rsalomon at U.WASHINGTON.EDU (Richard Salomon)
Date: Thu, 11 Mar 10 10:20:23 -0800
Subject: Raghuvamsa
Message-ID: <161227088846.23782.8509255210703001864.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Dear Harunaga,

I hope all is well with you; and, once again, thanks for your hospitality 
when I was in Hamburg in December -- though I'm sorry I couldn't accept your 
offer of more hospitality, due to lack of time.

When we met there you mentioned that you might be able to provide me with 
some sort of copy (hard or PDF) of your Raghuvamsa book which, shockingly, 
we don't have in our library here. As I intend to use it for a kavya course 
next quarter, it would be great to have one, if it's still available.

Thanks again,

Rich 




From rsalomon at U.WASHINGTON.EDU  Thu Mar 11 18:27:33 2010
From: rsalomon at U.WASHINGTON.EDU (Richard Salomon)
Date: Thu, 11 Mar 10 10:27:33 -0800
Subject: Raghuvamsa
Message-ID: <161227088848.23782.1356980904887361248.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Sorry for the personal message sent to the list by mistake (again). Please 
disregard.

Rich Salomon


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Richard Salomon" <rsalomon at U.WASHINGTON.EDU>
To: <INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk>
Sent: Thursday, March 11, 2010 10:20 AM
Subject: Raghuvamsa


> Dear Harunaga,
>
> I hope all is well with you; and, once again, thanks for your hospitality 
> when I was in Hamburg in December -- though I'm sorry I couldn't accept 
> your offer of more hospitality, due to lack of time.
>
> When we met there you mentioned that you might be able to provide me with 
> some sort of copy (hard or PDF) of your Raghuvamsa book which, shockingly, 
> we don't have in our library here. As I intend to use it for a kavya 
> course next quarter, it would be great to have one, if it's still 
> available.
>
> Thanks again,
>
> Rich 




From pf8 at SOAS.AC.UK  Thu Mar 11 13:13:02 2010
From: pf8 at SOAS.AC.UK (Peter Flugel)
Date: Thu, 11 Mar 10 13:13:02 +0000
Subject: Book Launch
Message-ID: <161227088842.23782.10924846124054401593.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Book Launch:

Ludwig Alsdorf. THE  HISTORY OF  VEGETARIANISM  AND  COW-VENERATION
IN  INDIA. Translated from German by Bal Patil. Revised by Nichola
Hayton and edited with additional notes, a bibliography and four
appendices by Willem B. Boll?e. Routledge Advances in Jaina Studies
Vol. 3. Series Editor: Peter Fl?gel. Oxon & New York: Routledge, 2010.
ISBN10: 0-415-54824-1, ISBN13: 978-0-415-54824-3

CONTENTS

Ludwig Alsdorf
Contribution to the History of Vegetarianism and Cow-veneration in India

Appendix I
Jan C. Heesterman "Review."

Appendix II
Hanns-Peter Schmidt. "The Origin of Ahi?s?."

Appendix III
Hanns-Peter Schmidt. "Ahi?s? and Rebirth."

Appendix IV:
Hiralal R. Kapadia. "Prohibition of Flesh-eating in Jainism."

SOAS Brunei Gallery Lecture Theatre, 18 March 2010, 6pm
Before the Annual Jaina Lecture, Followed by a Reception
All Welcome!

-- 
Dr Peter Fl?gel
Chair, Centre of Jaina Studies
Department of the Study of Religions
Faculty of Arts and Humanities
School of Oriental and African Studies
University of London
Thornhaugh Street
Russell Square
London WC1H OXG

Tel.: (+44-20) 7898 4776
E-mail: pf8 at soas.ac.uk
http://www.soas.ac.uk/jainastudies




From wujastyk at GMAIL.COM  Thu Mar 11 15:21:48 2010
From: wujastyk at GMAIL.COM (Dominik Wujastyk)
Date: Thu, 11 Mar 10 16:21:48 +0100
Subject: upodghata
In-Reply-To: <B924D027-C5F1-43CC-9DEE-AE40B1926CCA@t-online.de>
Message-ID: <161227088844.23782.9673905222648670092.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

I have a copy of the *Cikits?kalik?*, edited and translated by P. V.
Sharma.  It does contain your verse, and I am sending you separately a PDF
scan of the relevant pages.

It reads:
tath? cokta? --
"upodgh?ta? pada? caiva pad?rtha? padavigraha? |
c?lan? pratyavasth?ne vy?khy? tantrasya ?a?vidh? ||"
tatra upodgh?ta? ??strasamutth?nasambandh?bhidheyaprayojan?ni |
after which it goes on to another citation from another author, probably
V?gbha?a.

Details of Candra?a and his date in Meulenbeld, History of Indian Medical
Literature, IIA, p.122-25.  Probably fl. ca. 900-1050.

Best,

Dr Dominik Wujastyk
Institut f?r S?dasien-, Tibet- und Buddhismuskunde
Universit?t Wien
Spitalgasse 2-4, Hof 2, Eingang 2.1
A-1090 Vienna
Austria
--
long term email address: wujastyk at gmail.com
PGP key: http://wujastyk.net/pgp.html


On 8 March 2010 11:55, petra kieffer-P?lz <kiepue at t-online.de> wrote:

> Dear All,
>
> I am in search of a parallel in Sanskrit for the following verse from the
> Vajirabuddhi??k?
>
> upoggh?to pada? c' eva padattho padaviggaho
> codan? pratyavajj?na? by?khy? tantassa chabbiddh?
>
> The six terms as given in this verse do not tally with the standard terms
> (sambandha, pada, padattha, padaviggaha, codan?, parih?ra) given in the P?li
> literature from ca. the tenth century onwards as the categories relevant for
> writers of commentaries. Words like upoggh?ta, pratyavajj?na, vy?khy? used
> in this verse make it probable that Vajirabuddhi based himself on some
> Sanskrit source.
>
> Below are the terms for which alternatives are used in P?li literature:
>
> upoggh?ta = sambandha = nid?na? = nidassana?
> codan? = anuyoga = c?lan?
> parih?ra = paccupa??h?na? = pratyavajj?na?
>
>
> Any suggestions are welcome.
> Petra Kieffer-P?lz
>
> **************
> Dr. Petra Kieffer-P?lz
> Wilhelm-K?lz-Str. 2
> 99423 Weimar
> Germany
> Tel. 03643/770447
> kiepue at t-online.de
>




From gruenen at SUB.UNI-GOETTINGEN.DE  Fri Mar 12 16:38:27 2010
From: gruenen at SUB.UNI-GOETTINGEN.DE (Gruenendahl, Reinhold)
Date: Fri, 12 Mar 10 17:38:27 +0100
Subject: GRETIL update #365
Message-ID: <161227088850.23782.10554251688674502361.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

GRETIL is pleased to be able to report the following addition(s) to its
collection:

Vasubandhu: Abhidharmakosabhasya
<http://www.sub.uni-goettingen.de/ebene_1/fiindolo/gretil.htm#Abhidhkbha> 


Vasubandhu: Abhidharmakosa, Karikas
<http://www.sub.uni-goettingen.de/ebene_1/fiindolo/gretil.htm#AbhidhkK>
(revised)


Visnudharmottara-Purana, Adhy. 2,217: Atharvavidhikathana [=Atharvavidhana]
<http://www.sub.uni-goettingen.de/ebene_1/fiindolo/gretil.htm#Vdho_2,217> 


Visnudharmottara-Purana, Adhy. 3,343-353
<http://www.sub.uni-goettingen.de/ebene_1/fiindolo/gretil.htm#Vdho_3,343> 

(plain text and analytic version)

 

__________________________________________________________________________ 

"GRETIL is intended as a cumulative register of the numerous download sites
for electronic texts in Indian languages." (from the 2001 "mission
statement") 

GRETIL - Goettingen Register of Electronic Texts in Indian Languages: 

http://www.sub.uni-goettingen.de/ebene_1/fiindolo/gretil.htm




From pf8 at SOAS.AC.UK  Sat Mar 13 13:41:09 2010
From: pf8 at SOAS.AC.UK (Peter Flugel)
Date: Sat, 13 Mar 10 13:41:09 +0000
Subject: Jaina Studies - Newsletter of the Centre of Jaina Studies Vol. 5              2010
Message-ID: <161227088852.23782.12296539502743510998.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Jaina Studies - Newsletter of the Centre of Jaina Studies Vol. 5 2010
http://www.soas.ac.uk/jainastudies/newsletter/file57740.pdf

-- 
Dr Peter Fl?gel
Chair, Centre of Jaina Studies
Department of the Study of Religions
Faculty of Arts and Humanities
School of Oriental and African Studies
University of London
Thornhaugh Street
Russell Square
London WC1H OXG

Tel.: (+44-20) 7898 4776
E-mail: pf8 at soas.ac.uk
http://www.soas.ac.uk/jainastudies




From fleming_b4 at HOTMAIL.COM  Sat Mar 13 19:29:43 2010
From: fleming_b4 at HOTMAIL.COM (Benjamin Fleming)
Date: Sat, 13 Mar 10 14:29:43 -0500
Subject: History and Material Culture in Asian Religions - Update
Message-ID: <161227088857.23782.8541498843242287991.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>


Dear List Members,


Please see below, the updated and finalized schedule for the History and Material Culture in Asian Religions conference being held at the Penn Museum on March 21st - March 22nd in Philadelphia.


The new link to the conference website is:

http://www.sas.upenn.edu/~bfleming/material_culture/


Best Wishes,


Benjamin Fleming


__________________________________________ 

HISTORY AND MATERIAL CULTURE IN ASIAN RELIGIONS  


March 21-22, 2010, University of Pennsylvania


Penn Museum, Classroom 2 (Please use Kress entrance.)


* Sponsored by the Dept. of Religious Studies, Center for Ancient Studies, South Asia Center, Center for East Asian Studies, Penn Museum, Mellon Cross-Cultural Diversity Fund, University Research Foundation, and the Oriental Club of Philadelphia.


* All events are free and open to the public.



SUNDAY MARCH 20th 


9:00-9:20am ? Welcome & Introductory Comments


9:20am?12:00noon - Session I: The Materiality of Writing: Text as Artifact / Chair: Paul Goldin (University of Pennsylvania) 


Dirk Meyer (Oxford University), ?Bamboo and the Production of Philosophy: A Hypothesis about a Shift in Writing and Thought in Early China?


Jinah Kim (Vanderbilt University/Institute for Advanced Study), ?Animating the Dharma: 3D World of Medieval Buddhist books in South Asia?


Travis Zadeh (Haverford College), ?An Ingestible Scripture: Early Debates on Touching, Dissolving, and Eating the Qur?an?


Benjamin J. Fleming (University of Pennsylvania), ?Buddhists and Brahmins under the Reign of ?ricandra: New Evidence from Copperplate Inscriptions?



1:00?3:00 pm - Session II: Rethinking Religious Histories / Chair: Deven Patel (University of Pennsylvania)


Shayne Clarke (McMaster University), ?Motherhood amidst the Sisterhood: Reading Inscriptional Evidence in Light of Buddhist Monastic Law Codes?


Amy Holmes-Tagchungdarpa (University of Alabama), ?St?pa Renovation as a Trope of Authority in Asian Societies: Three Case Studies from the Kathmandu Valley?


Kevin Bond (University of Regina), ?Marketing Miracles: Buddhism, Commercialism, and Entertainment in Early Modern Japan?



3:00?4:00pm - Coffee Break / Gallery Tour, Steve Lang (Asian Keeper, Penn Museum)



4:00?6:00pm - Session III: Between Image and Text / Chair: Michael Meister (University of Pennsylvania)


Shaman Hatley (Concordia University), ?Goddesses in Text and Stone: Temples of the Yogin?s in Light of the Pur??as and Tantric ?aiva Literature?


Jamal Elias (University of Pennsylvania), ?Icons and Idols in the Islamic Past: Seeing the Religious Image in Historical Account?


Justin McDaniel (University of Pennsylvania), ?Beyond Narrative: Murals and Material Culture in Thailand?



MONDAY, MARCH 22nd 


9:00?11:40 am - Session IV: Relic, Text, and Icon / Chair: Frank Chance (University of Pennsylvania)


James Robson (Harvard University), ?Things Inside of Things: On the Materials Found Inside of Chinese Icons?


Tamara Sears (Yale University), ?Sculpting the Ascetic Body: Corporeality and Ephemerality in Early Medieval ?aivism?


Hank Glassman (Haverford College), ?Ninsh?, Ry?hen, and the 25 Bodhisattvas of Hakone?


Gudrun B?hnemann (University of Wisconsin-Madison), ?On the Iconography and Date of the Golden Window in Patan? 



1:00?3:00 pm - Session V: Material Cultures in Contact: Trade and Religious Exchange / Chair: Victor Mair (University of Pennsylvania)


Richard Mann (Carleton University), ?The Rise of Mahasena: Skanda, Vishakha and Mahasena on the Gold Coinage of Huvishka?


Jason Neelis (University of Florida/Ruhr-Universit?t Bochum), ?Gandharan Materials and Manuscripts from Contact Zones between South Asia and Central Asia: Crucial Evidence for Patterns of Buddhist Transmission?


Annette Yoshiko Reed (University of Pennsylvania), ?Eurasian Trade and the Connections between ?West? and ?East?: Reconsidering Early Christian References to Asian Religions?



3:15?4:00pm ? Concluding Discussion and Reception in Mosaic Gallery



For further information: 


http://www.sas.upenn.edu/~bfleming/material_culture/   


http://www.penn.museum/  



-- 

Dr. Benjamin Fleming Visiting Scholar, 
Dept. of Religious Studies, 
University of Pennsylvania 249 S. 36th Street, 
Claudia Cohen Hall, #234 
Philadelphia, PA 19104 U.S.A. 
Telephone - 215-746-7792
http://www.sas.upenn.edu/~bfleming 

 		 	   		  
_________________________________________________________________
Hotmail has tools for the New Busy. Search, chat and e-mail from your inbox.
http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/thenewbusy?ocid=PID27925::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:WM_HMP:032010_1




From wujastyk at GMAIL.COM  Sat Mar 13 15:56:00 2010
From: wujastyk at GMAIL.COM (Dominik Wujastyk)
Date: Sat, 13 Mar 10 16:56:00 +0100
Subject: Fwd: Sanskrit Manuscripts in South Indian Scripts: the van Manen              Collection
In-Reply-To: <B7CD06976F3EFA4B983DDCB9B97D50FC576A85@VUWVXC01.VUW.leidenuniv.nl>
Message-ID: <161227088855.23782.17316816869651251812.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

 ---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Rath, S. <S.Rath at iias.nl>
Date: 9 March 2010 00:35
Subject: Sanskrit Manuscripts in South Indian Scripts: the van Manen
Collection

Dear Dominik,

As you know that I have been working on the south indian manuscripts of the
Johan van Manen collection, Leiden. At present I would like to make the
complete list of titles of the texts (588) found in this collection
available to those interested. Several new texts have been identified which
were not in the preliminary hand-list published by H. 't Hart in 1992. My
complete catalogue which gives more detailed information on the manuscripts
is under preparation and will be published soon.
Could you please forward the following link to the Indology List ?
http://www.iias.nl/profile/saraju-rath
With thanks and best regards,

Saraju

Dr. Saraju Rath
International Institute for Asian Studies (IIAS)
Postbox no. 9500
2300 RA Leiden
The Netherlands
Tel. 0031-71-5274147
email: s.rath at iias.nl




From eastwestcultural at YAHOO.COM  Sun Mar 14 11:04:44 2010
From: eastwestcultural at YAHOO.COM (Dean Michael Anderson)
Date: Sun, 14 Mar 10 04:04:44 -0700
Subject: Roth Article Needed
In-Reply-To: <B95EB2B2017646D4A7C6AA0DDCB1D1AB@zen>
Message-ID: <161227088861.23782.11731558176291790537.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

I was sent this email and it's outside my area of focus by 1-2000 years so I thought I'd pass on the request. Of course, the questioner seems to have some misunderstandings about the nature of the Vedanta-Buddhist dialog over the centuries but I'm sure y'all or your sources will deal with that.
Best,
Dean
Dean Michael AndersonEast West Cultural Institute

Quote:Do you know of any references or books that discuss the reported debates long ago between?Shankara?and?Buddhists, reasons that the Buddhists in part left?India?for lands further east, as well as comparative analyses of?Advaita?and Buddhist teachings?




From eastwestcultural at YAHOO.COM  Sun Mar 14 11:17:07 2010
From: eastwestcultural at YAHOO.COM (Dean Michael Anderson)
Date: Sun, 14 Mar 10 04:17:07 -0700
Subject: Roth Article Needed
In-Reply-To: <917365.38222.qm@web62408.mail.re1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <161227088864.23782.13533787528891961481.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

I apologize for sending that earlier message without renaming the Subject line. I resent it with the correct subject header: Buddhism and Advaita.
Sincerely,

Dean




From eastwestcultural at YAHOO.COM  Sun Mar 14 11:19:20 2010
From: eastwestcultural at YAHOO.COM (Dean Michael Anderson)
Date: Sun, 14 Mar 10 04:19:20 -0700
Subject: Buddhism and Advaita
In-Reply-To: <281750.14802.qm@web62402.mail.re1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <161227088866.23782.11103734360183826678.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Here is the resent message with the correct subject header:
I was sent this email and it's outside my area of focus by about 1000-2000 years so I thought I'd pass on the request.?
Of course, the questioner seems to have some misunderstandings about the nature of the Vedanta-Buddhist dialog over the centuries but I'm sure y'all or your sources will deal with that.
Best,
Dean
Dean Michael AndersonEast West Cultural Institute

Quote:Do you know of any references or books that discuss the reported debates long ago between?Shankara?and?Buddhists, reasons that the Buddhists in part left?India?for lands further east, as well as comparative analyses of?Advaita?and Buddhist teachings?




From fritsstaal at BERKELEY.EDU  Sun Mar 14 13:13:06 2010
From: fritsstaal at BERKELEY.EDU (FRITS STAAL)
Date: Sun, 14 Mar 10 06:13:06 -0700
Subject: Buddhism and Advaita
In-Reply-To: <814402.15247.qm@web62402.mail.re1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <161227088868.23782.15723275446340023588.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

I can mention only one specific point from the debate due to the famous
Sankara. It has nothing (or very little and very indirectly) to do with
the reasons for Buddhists to leave India. (And incidentally: I am not a
follower of S. nor am I a Buddhist).

You have to find someone who knows the texts and ask him about Sankara's
commentary on the Brahmasutra's words: anusmRteSca "and on account of
remembrance".

In the commentary S. says: I can remember what I saw yesterday, but I
cannot remember what you saw yesterday.

The implication is: Buddhists cannot explain remembrance or memory. (I am
familiar with some Buddhist counterarguments and do not think they have
refuted S's point.)

The passage is quoted in my book "Discovering the Vedas" which has a
chapter on "The Vedas and Buddhism".

greetings,

> Here is the resent message with the correct subject header:
> I was sent this email and it's outside my area of focus by about 1000-2000
> years so I thought I'd pass on the request.?
> Of course, the questioner seems to have some misunderstandings about the
> nature of the Vedanta-Buddhist dialog over the centuries but I'm sure
> y'all or your sources will deal with that.
> Best,
> Dean
> Dean Michael AndersonEast West Cultural Institute
>
> Quote:Do you know of any references or books that discuss the reported
> debates long ago between?Shankara?and?Buddhists, reasons that the
> Buddhists in part left?India?for lands further east, as well as
> comparative analyses of?Advaita?and Buddhist teachings?
>


Frits Staal

http://philosophy.berkeley.edu/staal




From s.hodge at PADMACHOLING.PLUS.COM  Sun Mar 14 08:41:39 2010
From: s.hodge at PADMACHOLING.PLUS.COM (Stephen Hodge)
Date: Sun, 14 Mar 10 08:41:39 +0000
Subject: Roth Article Needed
Message-ID: <161227088859.23782.4768663262062370165.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Dear Colleagues,

Does anybody happen to have a copy of this to hand:

Die Sprache der ?ltesten buddhistischen ?berlieferung (The language of the 
earliest Buddhist tradition) Ed. Heinz Bechert.

I do not have immediate access to this at the moment, but I need to see the 
paper included therein by Gustav Roth: "Particular features of the language 
of the ?rya-Mah?s??ghika-Lokottarav?dins and their importance for early 
Buddhist tradition".

If it is not too onerous, would anybody be very kind and scan & send this 
paper to me ~ I do not think it is very long so it shoudl not take up too 
much of your valuable time. I shall, of course, be very grateful and 
indebted etc as always !

Best wishes,

Stephen Hodge




From andrew.nicholson at STONYBROOK.EDU  Mon Mar 15 01:19:55 2010
From: andrew.nicholson at STONYBROOK.EDU (Andrew Nicholson)
Date: Sun, 14 Mar 10 21:19:55 -0400
Subject: Buddhism and Advaita
In-Reply-To: <INDOLOGY%201003150000029226.26CD@LISTSERV.LIV.AC.UK>
Message-ID: <161227088874.23782.17474091124293002865.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Three resources on the topic of Buddhism and Vedanta:

Richard King, Early Advaita Vedanta and Buddhism: The Mahayana Context of
the Gaudapada-Karika (Albany: State University of New York Press, 1995).  A
thoughtful discussion of the ways in which Advaita Vedanta, particularly
Sankara's teacher's teacher Gaudapada, was influenced by and reconfigured
the ideas of Madhyamaka Buddhism.

Hajime Nakamura, A History of Early Vedanta Philosophy: Part One, pp.
131-265 (Delhi: Motilal Banarsidass, 1983).  Contains a review of Buddhist
accounts of Vedanta, incl. summaries of Bhavaviveka, Santaraksita, and
Kamalasila.

Sankara's Brahma Sutra Bhasya, sections 2.2.19-32, where he attacks 3 types
of Buddhism he calls Sarvastivada, Vijnanavada, and Sunyavada.  A useful
summary appears in Eliot Deutsch (ed.), The Essential Vedanta: A New Source
Book of Advaita Vedanta, pp. 126-39 (Bloomington: World Wisdom, 2004).

Prof. Staal's point bears repeating--Sankara's Advaita Vedanta had little
if any role to play in the decline of Buddhism in India.  The idea that
Sankara somehow singlehandedly defeated the Buddhists is a fantasy
expressed in late medieval hagiographies.  Historical evidence suggests
that he was a relatively minor player on the Indian intellectual scene
during his lifetime, and only achieved the type of popularity he enjoys
today after the Buddhists were no longer present.

With best wishes,
Andrew
______________________________________________
Andrew J. Nicholson
Assistant Professor
Department of Asian and Asian American Studies
Stony Brook University
Stony Brook, NY 11794-5343 USA
Tel: (631) 632-4030  Fax: (631) 632-4098




From franco at RZ.UNI-LEIPZIG.DE  Sun Mar 14 21:25:31 2010
From: franco at RZ.UNI-LEIPZIG.DE (franco at RZ.UNI-LEIPZIG.DE)
Date: Sun, 14 Mar 10 22:25:31 +0100
Subject: Buddhism and Advaita
In-Reply-To: <aec0829460f6ecb90b16630fa853ae11.squirrel@calmail.berkeley.edu>
Message-ID: <161227088871.23782.154113516304403682.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

For an early phase of the debate see Olle Quarnstrom's translation of  
the Vedanta chapter of Bhavya's Madhyamakahrdaya.
Best wishes,
Eli Franco

Zitat von FRITS STAAL <fritsstaal at BERKELEY.EDU>:

> I can mention only one specific point from the debate due to the famous
> Sankara. It has nothing (or very little and very indirectly) to do with
> the reasons for Buddhists to leave India. (And incidentally: I am not a
> follower of S. nor am I a Buddhist).
>
> You have to find someone who knows the texts and ask him about Sankara's
> commentary on the Brahmasutra's words: anusmRteSca "and on account of
> remembrance".
>
> In the commentary S. says: I can remember what I saw yesterday, but I
> cannot remember what you saw yesterday.
>
> The implication is: Buddhists cannot explain remembrance or memory. (I am
> familiar with some Buddhist counterarguments and do not think they have
> refuted S's point.)
>
> The passage is quoted in my book "Discovering the Vedas" which has a
> chapter on "The Vedas and Buddhism".
>
> greetings,
>
>> Here is the resent message with the correct subject header:
>> I was sent this email and it's outside my area of focus by about 1000-2000
>> years so I thought I'd pass on the request.?
>> Of course, the questioner seems to have some misunderstandings about the
>> nature of the Vedanta-Buddhist dialog over the centuries but I'm sure
>> y'all or your sources will deal with that.
>> Best,
>> Dean
>> Dean Michael AndersonEast West Cultural Institute
>>
>> Quote:Do you know of any references or books that discuss the reported
>> debates long ago between?Shankara?and?Buddhists, reasons that the
>> Buddhists in part left?India?for lands further east, as well as
>> comparative analyses of?Advaita?and Buddhist teachings?
>>
>
>
> Frits Staal
>
> http://philosophy.berkeley.edu/staal
>
>




From vbd203 at GOOGLEMAIL.COM  Tue Mar 16 12:14:02 2010
From: vbd203 at GOOGLEMAIL.COM (victor davella)
Date: Tue, 16 Mar 10 08:14:02 -0400
Subject: trivalI in compounds
In-Reply-To: <LISTSERV%201003161148112825.2BCC@LISTSERV.LIV.AC.UK>
Message-ID: <161227088878.23782.2125083086313659443.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Hello,

Vamana has something to say about the word in his Kavyalamkarasutra with a
Paninian citation, but I'm not sure if its exactly what you are looking
for.   This is the text from GRETIL:


*trival??abda? siddha? sa?j?? cet // VKal_5,2.14 [*VKal_5,2.13] //*

trival??abda? siddho yadi sa?j?? / *diksakhye sa.?j??y?m*(P?_2,1.50) iti
sa?j??y?meva sam?savidh?n?t //14//




All the Best,
Victor

Phd Candidate
University of Chicago
SALC


On Tue, Mar 16, 2010 at 7:48 AM, Oliver Fallon <opfallon at yahoo.com> wrote:

> Dear List Members,
>
> Can anyone help finding a reference in Paninian literature for the
> lengthening of the final vowel of trivali to trivalI in compounds?
>
> MW says "f. in comp. the 3 folds over a woman's navel (regarded as a
> beauty)
> VarB?S. lxx , 5 ?itus. GarP."
>
> I have looked in P. 6.3.114-139, which appears to be the relevant section,
> but may have missed something.
>
> With thanks,
> Oliver
>




From opfallon at YAHOO.COM  Tue Mar 16 11:48:11 2010
From: opfallon at YAHOO.COM (Oliver Fallon)
Date: Tue, 16 Mar 10 11:48:11 +0000
Subject: trivalI in compounds
Message-ID: <161227088876.23782.3520722913306146731.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Dear List Members,

Can anyone help finding a reference in Paninian literature for the
lengthening of the final vowel of trivali to trivalI in compounds?

MW says "f. in comp. the 3 folds over a woman's navel (regarded as a beauty)
VarB&#7771;S. lxx , 5 &#7770;itus. GarP."

I have looked in P. 6.3.114-139, which appears to be the relevant section,
but may have missed something.

With thanks,
Oliver




From vbd203 at GOOGLEMAIL.COM  Tue Mar 16 18:44:26 2010
From: vbd203 at GOOGLEMAIL.COM (victor davella)
Date: Tue, 16 Mar 10 12:44:26 -0600
Subject: trivalI in compounds
In-Reply-To: <LISTSERV%201003161405166817.2C52@LISTSERV.LIV.AC.UK>
Message-ID: <161227088889.23782.8318594872669331996.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Dear Oliver,

Right, it didn't seem exactly what you wanted, but it would seem that since
it's not in the sense of a name, Vamana would consider it incorrect or not
pure usage, so we wouldn't expect to find a Paninian explanation for such a
form  with the long i (not in the sense of a name) in or out of compound.
 Unfortunately I am away from a library and have only limited resources.  Do
any of the commentators make any comment?

Best,
Victor

On Tue, Mar 16, 2010 at 8:05 AM, Oliver Fallon <opfallon at yahoo.com> wrote:

> Thank you Victor,
>
> That is interesting, and would be more so if the occurrence I have were a
> proper name, but it is not what I'm looking for.
>
> I found it in the ZRGgAra-zataka of BhartRhari v.78, where its usage is
> unexceptional.
>
> I would simply like to know why the final vowel lengthens if trivali is in
> a
> compound.
>




From gruenen at SUB.UNI-GOETTINGEN.DE  Tue Mar 16 13:01:44 2010
From: gruenen at SUB.UNI-GOETTINGEN.DE (Gruenendahl, Reinhold)
Date: Tue, 16 Mar 10 14:01:44 +0100
Subject: GRETIL update #366
Message-ID: <161227088880.23782.8575741007349747686.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

GRETIL is pleased to be able to report the following addition(s) to its
collection:

Bhiksunivinaya
<http://www.sub.uni-goettingen.de/ebene_1/fiindolo/gretil.htm#BhiksuniVin> 


Ganapatihrdaya-Dharani
<http://www.sub.uni-goettingen.de/ebene_1/fiindolo/gretil.htm#GanphrdDhar> 


Vimalamitra(?): Abhidharmadipa, with auto(?)-commentary Vibhasaprabhasavrtti
<http://www.sub.uni-goettingen.de/ebene_1/fiindolo/gretil.htm#VimAbhdip> 


Vimalamitra(?): Abhidharmadipa, Karikas extracted from the commented text
<http://www.sub.uni-goettingen.de/ebene_1/fiindolo/gretil.htm#VimAbhdipKx> 


Vimalamitra(?): Abhidharmadipa, Karikas 1-383 (alternative version)
<http://www.sub.uni-goettingen.de/ebene_1/fiindolo/gretil.htm#VimAbhdipK2>
[relaunched]

 

__________________________________________________________________________ 

"GRETIL is intended as a cumulative register of the numerous download sites
for electronic texts in Indian languages." (from the 2001 "mission
statement") 

GRETIL - Goettingen Register of Electronic Texts in Indian Languages: 

http://www.sub.uni-goettingen.de/ebene_1/fiindolo/gretil.htm




From opfallon at YAHOO.COM  Tue Mar 16 14:05:16 2010
From: opfallon at YAHOO.COM (Oliver Fallon)
Date: Tue, 16 Mar 10 14:05:16 +0000
Subject: trivalI in compounds
Message-ID: <161227088882.23782.9907301414935451236.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Thank you Victor,

That is interesting, and would be more so if the occurrence I have were a
proper name, but it is not what I'm looking for.

I found it in the ZRGgAra-zataka of BhartRhari v.78, where its usage is
unexceptional.

I would simply like to know why the final vowel lengthens if trivali is in a
compound.




From s.hodge at PADMACHOLING.PLUS.COM  Tue Mar 16 17:20:34 2010
From: s.hodge at PADMACHOLING.PLUS.COM (Stephen Hodge)
Date: Tue, 16 Mar 10 17:20:34 +0000
Subject: Roth Article
Message-ID: <161227088885.23782.9372883280815634486.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

I have now got hold of a copy of the Roth article ~ many thanks.

Stephen Hodge




From dbhattacharya2004 at YAHOO.CO.IN  Tue Mar 16 18:40:15 2010
From: dbhattacharya2004 at YAHOO.CO.IN (Dipak Bhattacharya)
Date: Wed, 17 Mar 10 00:10:15 +0530
Subject: trivalI in compounds
In-Reply-To: <LISTSERV%201003161148112825.2BCC@LISTSERV.LIV.AC.UK>
Message-ID: <161227088887.23782.3520657969484787202.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Sometimes it appeared to me that the long ? here is a post-P??inian development. See particularly the P?m?diga?a on 5.2.100.
Best
DB
--- On Tue, 16/3/10, Oliver Fallon <opfallon at YAHOO.COM> wrote:


From: Oliver Fallon <opfallon at YAHOO.COM>
Subject: trivalI in compounds
To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk
Date: Tuesday, 16 March, 2010, 5:18 PM


Dear List Members,

Can anyone help finding a reference in Paninian literature for the
lengthening of the final vowel of trivali to trivalI in compounds?

MW says "f. in comp. the 3 folds over a woman's navel (regarded as a beauty)
VarB?S. lxx , 5 ?itus. GarP."

I have looked in P. 6.3.114-139, which appears to be the relevant section,
but may have missed something.

With thanks,
Oliver



      The INTERNET now has a personality. YOURS! See your Yahoo! Homepage. http://in.yahoo.com/




From jhakgirish at YAHOO.COM  Wed Mar 17 17:30:26 2010
From: jhakgirish at YAHOO.COM (girish jha)
Date: Wed, 17 Mar 10 10:30:26 -0700
Subject: trivalI in compounds
In-Reply-To: <LISTSERV%201003161148112825.2BCC@LISTSERV.LIV.AC.UK>
Message-ID: <161227088898.23782.3045113849735142731.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Dear? Indologists,
The Sanskrit words,both Vali and Trivali are synonymous.It ends?in short /i/.According to the Amarakos?a ,valih? pr?n?yan?gaje striy?m.Vali? means ?the? three lines? in? shrunk? stomach.Here a gan?as?tra(No.49)on 4.1.45 ?itah?? pr?n?yan.g?t? applies.n??s.? suffix is prescribed ?after? a Pr?tipadika meaning? an organ of a living being and ending in short /i/.Consequently vali + n?is? = val?.The same view has been expressed in the Ny?sa and Padama?jar?? too.
Thanks,
GIRISH K.JHA
SANSKRIT,PATNA UNIV,INDIA 

--- On Tue, 3/16/10, Oliver Fallon <opfallon at YAHOO.COM> wrote:


From: Oliver Fallon <opfallon at YAHOO.COM>
Subject: trivalI in compounds
To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk
Date: Tuesday, March 16, 2010, 4:48 AM


Dear List Members,

Can anyone help finding a reference in Paninian literature for the
lengthening of the final vowel of trivali to trivalI in compounds?

MW says "f. in comp. the 3 folds over a woman's navel (regarded as a beauty)
VarB?S. lxx , 5 ?itus. GarP."

I have looked in P. 6.3.114-139, which appears to be the relevant section,
but may have missed something.

With thanks,
Oliver



      




From opfallon at YAHOO.COM  Wed Mar 17 10:39:02 2010
From: opfallon at YAHOO.COM (Oliver Fallon)
Date: Wed, 17 Mar 10 10:39:02 +0000
Subject: trivalI in compounds
Message-ID: <161227088891.23782.16136506873608125382.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Yes, perhaps it is a post-Paninian usage, or even a Prakritic usage.
It might have become accepted usage with ref. to P. 2.1.50 as Victor has
pointed out, even though it is not a proper noun.
If it is Prakritic, a clue might be given by Bha&#7789;&#7789;ik&amp;#257;vya 13.1 (where the
language is simultaneously Sanskrit and Prakrit) "kiraNa-AvalI-sa-vilAsA".
I do not understand the commentator Jayama&#7749;gala's reference:
""kRdikArAdaktinaH" ity anena Avalir AvalIty ubhayam api saMskRta-prAkRtayoH
prayujyate" Where is "kRdikArAdaktinaH" from?

I only have DhanasAragaNi's commentary on BhartRhari (ed. Kosambi), which is
not much help.
Does anyone else know of any more useful commentaries?

with thanks,
Oliver




From jhakgirish at YAHOO.COM  Wed Mar 17 18:07:19 2010
From: jhakgirish at YAHOO.COM (girish jha)
Date: Wed, 17 Mar 10 11:07:19 -0700
Subject: trivalI in compounds
In-Reply-To: <LISTSERV%201003161148112825.2BCC@LISTSERV.LIV.AC.UK>
Message-ID: <161227088901.23782.4125059200522739451.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Dear colleagues,
As far as trivalii in compounds is concerned,it makes an uttarapadalopin?Karmadhaaraya Compound :Triparimitaa valii trivalii.
GIRISH K.JHA?
?Tue, 3/16/10, Oliver Fallon <opfallon at YAHOO.COM> wrote:


From: Oliver Fallon <opfallon at YAHOO.COM>
Subject: trivalI in compounds
To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk
Date: Tuesday, March 16, 2010, 4:48 AM


Dear List Members,

Can anyone help finding a reference in Paninian literature for the
lengthening of the final vowel of trivali to trivalI in compounds?

MW says "f. in comp. the 3 folds over a woman's navel (regarded as a beauty)
VarB?S. lxx , 5 ?itus. GarP."

I have looked in P. 6.3.114-139, which appears to be the relevant section,
but may have missed something.

With thanks,
Oliver



      




From rotaru.julieta at GMAIL.COM  Wed Mar 17 11:33:01 2010
From: rotaru.julieta at GMAIL.COM (Julieta Rotaru)
Date: Wed, 17 Mar 10 13:33:01 +0200
Subject: CEAAS, Bucharest: Intensive Course in Codicology
Message-ID: <161227088893.23782.6147590120065124624.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Dear Colleagues,



I have the pleasure to announce that the Centre for Eurasiatic and
Afroasiatic Studies (CEAAS) ? Bucharest, will held an Intensive Course in
Codicology, with special reference to the Grantha script.



We kindly ask you to pass the information enclosed bellow to your students
and other interested persons.



Thanking you,

Julieta Rotaru

Lecturer, University of Bucharest

Faculty of Foreign Languages and Literature



*Title:* History and development of South Indian Scripts (with special
reference to *Grantha*).



*Course Description*:

i. Learning, writing and reading *Grantha* script;

ii. Practice with the reading of *Grantha* palm-leaf manuscripts;

iii. Concluding session is devoted to the use of manuscripts in current *p?*
*?**ha**?**?l?s* in India (with *vaidika* recitation);

iv. A certificate will be provided for active and successful participation.



*Date*: 14-18 September 2010



*Materials*: to be provided



*Subscription*:

The course participants will be invited after approval of their brief CV and
motivation letter which are to be submitted by July 15 to
julieta.rotaru at bmms.ro / s.rath at iias.nl.



For the participants rooms have been reserved (in a moderate price) in the
Guest House of the University of Bucharest, just 10 minutes from the venue
of the course.



*Requirement*: basic knowledge in Sanskrit.



*Venue*:

Centre for Eurasiatic and Afroasiatic Studies (CEAAS)

Take Ionescu Street, no. 4, 010354 Bucharest

ROMANIA

www.bmms.ro

phone: + 40 21 216 36 25



*Teacher*:

Dr.(Mrs.) Saraju Rath,

International Institute for Asian Studies(IIAS),

Leiden, The Netherlands




From dbhattacharya2004 at YAHOO.CO.IN  Wed Mar 17 11:39:15 2010
From: dbhattacharya2004 at YAHOO.CO.IN (Dipak Bhattacharya)
Date: Wed, 17 Mar 10 17:09:15 +0530
Subject: trivalI in compounds
In-Reply-To: <LISTSERV%201003171039029750.2E30@LISTSERV.LIV.AC.UK>
Message-ID: <161227088896.23782.12799904310842472747.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Ga?as?tra ?See?4.1.45.
Best 
DB

--- On Wed, 17/3/10, Oliver Fallon <opfallon at YAHOO.COM> wrote:


From: Oliver Fallon <opfallon at YAHOO.COM>
Subject: Re: trivalI in compounds
To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk
Date: Wednesday, 17 March, 2010, 4:09 PM


Yes, perhaps it is a post-Paninian usage, or even a Prakritic usage.
It might have become accepted usage with ref. to P. 2.1.50 as Victor has
pointed out, even though it is not a proper noun.
If it is Prakritic, a clue might be given by Bha??ik&amp;#257;vya 13.1 (where the
language is simultaneously Sanskrit and Prakrit) "kiraNa-AvalI-sa-vilAsA".
I do not understand the commentator Jayama?gala's reference:
""kRdikArAdaktinaH" ity anena Avalir AvalIty ubhayam api saMskRta-prAkRtayoH
prayujyate" Where is "kRdikArAdaktinaH" from?

I only have DhanasAragaNi's commentary on BhartRhari (ed. Kosambi), which is
not much help.
Does anyone else know of any more useful commentaries?

with thanks,
Oliver



      Your Mail works best with the New Yahoo Optimized IE8. Get it NOW! http://downloads.yahoo.com/in/internetexplorer/




From opfallon at YAHOO.COM  Thu Mar 18 17:53:46 2010
From: opfallon at YAHOO.COM (Oliver Fallon)
Date: Thu, 18 Mar 10 17:53:46 +0000
Subject: trivalI in compounds
Message-ID: <161227088903.23782.10933651706641192811.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Thank you very much to all who replied.
Sutra 4.1.45 and the following varttika very satisfactorily explain it.




From dbhattacharya2004 at YAHOO.CO.IN  Fri Mar 19 02:54:33 2010
From: dbhattacharya2004 at YAHOO.CO.IN (Dipak Bhattacharya)
Date: Fri, 19 Mar 10 08:24:33 +0530
Subject: trivalI in compounds
In-Reply-To: <LISTSERV%201003181753464849.3302@LISTSERV.LIV.AC.UK>
Message-ID: <161227088905.23782.9832810224048081124.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Just a welcome note. In fact the s?tra quoted in the Jayamangal? and the ones that precede and follow are Ga?as?tras. They are not known to have been composed by K?ty?yana, the author of the V?rttikas
Best
DB

--- On Thu, 18/3/10, Oliver Fallon <opfallon at YAHOO.COM> wrote:


From: Oliver Fallon <opfallon at YAHOO.COM>
Subject: Re: trivalI in compounds
To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk
Date: Thursday, 18 March, 2010, 11:23 PM


Thank you very much to all who replied.
Sutra 4.1.45 and the following varttika very satisfactorily explain it.



      Your Mail works best with the New Yahoo Optimized IE8. Get it NOW! http://downloads.yahoo.com/in/internetexplorer/




From dbhattacharya2004 at YAHOO.CO.IN  Fri Mar 19 03:21:18 2010
From: dbhattacharya2004 at YAHOO.CO.IN (Dipak Bhattacharya)
Date: Fri, 19 Mar 10 08:51:18 +0530
Subject: trivalI in compounds
In-Reply-To: <LISTSERV%201003171039029750.2E30@LISTSERV.LIV.AC.UK>
Message-ID: <161227088907.23782.16297221444653071766.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

I forgot to mention? that Mallin?tha?s Sarvapath?n? is quite elaborate. 
Best
DB

--- On Wed, 17/3/10, Oliver Fallon <opfallon at YAHOO.COM> wrote:


From: Oliver Fallon <opfallon at YAHOO.COM>
Subject: Re: trivalI in compounds
To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk
Date: Wednesday, 17 March, 2010, 4:09 PM


Yes, perhaps it is a post-Paninian usage, or even a Prakritic usage.
It might have become accepted usage with ref. to P. 2.1.50 as Victor has
pointed out, even though it is not a proper noun.
If it is Prakritic, a clue might be given by Bha??ik&amp;#257;vya 13.1 (where the
language is simultaneously Sanskrit and Prakrit) "kiraNa-AvalI-sa-vilAsA".
I do not understand the commentator Jayama?gala's reference:
""kRdikArAdaktinaH" ity anena Avalir AvalIty ubhayam api saMskRta-prAkRtayoH
prayujyate" Where is "kRdikArAdaktinaH" from?

I only have DhanasAragaNi's commentary on BhartRhari (ed. Kosambi), which is
not much help.
Does anyone else know of any more useful commentaries?

with thanks,
Oliver



      The INTERNET now has a personality. YOURS! See your Yahoo! Homepage. http://in.yahoo.com/




From dominic.goodall at GMAIL.COM  Fri Mar 19 03:24:32 2010
From: dominic.goodall at GMAIL.COM (Dominic Goodall)
Date: Fri, 19 Mar 10 08:54:32 +0530
Subject: trivalI in compounds
In-Reply-To: <LISTSERV%201003161405166817.2C52@LISTSERV.LIV.AC.UK>
Message-ID: <161227088909.23782.10912989601980873513.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

On the issue of the "proper name"...

Trivalii can be a sa.mj~naa in as much as it names one particular  
group of three folds, namely that at the waist, and not just any group  
of three folds, for instance on the forehead or behind the knee.

This is presumably Vaamana's point when he applies Paa.nini's rule  
diksa.mkhye sa.mj~naayaam (2.1.50).

On 16 Mar 2010, at 19:35, Oliver Fallon wrote:

> Thank you Victor,
>
> That is interesting, and would be more so if the occurrence I have  
> were a
> proper name, but it is not what I'm looking for.
>
> I found it in the ZRGgAra-zataka of BhartRhari v.78, where its usage  
> is
> unexceptional.
>
> I would simply like to know why the final vowel lengthens if trivali  
> is in a
> compound.




From dbhattacharya2004 at YAHOO.CO.IN  Fri Mar 19 05:54:55 2010
From: dbhattacharya2004 at YAHOO.CO.IN (Dipak Bhattacharya)
Date: Fri, 19 Mar 10 11:24:55 +0530
Subject: trivalI in compounds
In-Reply-To: <261405.98945.qm@web57707.mail.re3.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <161227088912.23782.638154787369855855.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

After Jay?ditya?s explanation of P.2.1.51 taddhit?rthottarapadasam?h?re ca when, of a compound?formed after 2.1.50 the final meaning is that of a taddhita suffix or when a third word (uttarapada) follows the compound or when an ensemble is meant one gets a tatpuru?a compound. This uttarapada compound is different from the uttarapadalopin compound commonly illustrated with si?h?sana ?lion (marked) ?seat ?ie a throne?. Naturally trilokan?tha (Kum?rasambhava 5.77) has been explained by Mallin?tha as an uttarapada compound. This is implied also in the explanation of trilokasaundarya ?(5.41).
trival? ?is neither an uttarapadalopin nor an uttarapada compound. An ensemble is meant. Naturally 2.1.50 and 51 are sufficient for forming the compound without invoking the concept of uttarapadalopin.? The ga?as?tra 50 appended to 4.1.45 takes care of the long ? of words like trival?. 
Best 
DB

--- On Wed, 17/3/10, girish jha <jhakgirish at YAHOO.COM> wrote:


From: girish jha <jhakgirish at YAHOO.COM>
Subject: Re: trivalI in compounds
To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk
Date: Wednesday, 17 March, 2010, 11:37 PM


Dear colleagues,
As far as trivalii in compounds is concerned,it makes an uttarapadalopin?Karmadhaaraya Compound :Triparimitaa valii trivalii.
GIRISH K.JHA?
?Tue, 3/16/10, Oliver Fallon <opfallon at YAHOO.COM> wrote:


From: Oliver Fallon <opfallon at YAHOO.COM>
Subject: trivalI in compounds
To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk
Date: Tuesday, March 16, 2010, 4:48 AM


Dear List Members,

Can anyone help finding a reference in Paninian literature for the
lengthening of the final vowel of trivali to trivalI in compounds?

MW says "f. in comp. the 3 folds over a woman's navel (regarded as a beauty)
VarB?S. lxx , 5 ?itus. GarP."

I have looked in P. 6.3.114-139, which appears to be the relevant section,
but may have missed something.

With thanks,
Oliver







      The INTERNET now has a personality. YOURS! See your Yahoo! Homepage. http://in.yahoo.com/




From jhakgirish at YAHOO.COM  Sat Mar 20 18:15:45 2010
From: jhakgirish at YAHOO.COM (girish jha)
Date: Sat, 20 Mar 10 11:15:45 -0700
Subject: trivalI in compounds
In-Reply-To: <145184.62171.qm@web8601.mail.in.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <161227088914.23782.12016962461457505802.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

?
Dear colleagues,
It is noteworthy that? trival? can?t be formed as a sam?h?ra Compound.? If we try to form it by P?n.ini? 2.1.51 taddhit?rthottarapadasam?h?re ca the derivation will be tisr.n.?m val?nam sam?h?rah.
1.The sam?sa is ?ordained by 2.1.51,
2.it is characterized as ?dvigu by 2.1.52 sankhy?purvo dviguh.After that
3.it takes singular by 2.4.1 dvigur ekavacanam and ??neuter gender by 2.4.17 sa napumsakam.
As a result ?trivali a neuter ?gender Compound word ending in short /i/ is formed. 
Now we cannot replace the short vowel of trivali by long one by any of the three gan?as?tras relating to 
4.1.45? bahv?dibhya? ca? as the sutra ?4.1.14 anupasarjan?t ??recurs? there.???? vali is an upasarjana as a compound form.We can?t convert it into a feminine form as only a dvigu? ending in /a/ can be in feminine by prescribing ??n??p? by 4.1.21 dvigoh.? As such we will have to convert vali into val? and then trival? may be formed by? the v?rttika ??kap?rthivadinam siddhaya? uttarapadalopasyopasamkhy?nam[s?kapriyah p?rthivah ??kap?rthivah]and the derivation will be triparimit? val? ?trival?.
GIRISH K. JHA
SANSKRIT,PATNA UNIVERSITY


--- On Thu, 3/18/10, Dipak Bhattacharya <dbhattacharya2004 at YAHOO.CO.IN> wrote:


From: Dipak Bhattacharya <dbhattacharya2004 at YAHOO.CO.IN>
Subject: Re: trivalI in compounds
To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk
Date: Thursday, March 18, 2010, 10:54 PM


After Jay?ditya?s explanation of P.2.1.51 taddhit?rthottarapadasam?h?re ca when, of a compound?formed after 2.1.50 the final meaning is that of a taddhita suffix or when a third word (uttarapada) follows the compound or when an ensemble is meant one gets a tatpuru?a compound. This uttarapada compound is different from the uttarapadalopin compound commonly illustrated with si?h?sana ?lion (marked) ?seat ?ie a throne?. Naturally trilokan?tha (Kum?rasambhava 5.77) has been explained by Mallin?tha as an uttarapada compound. This is implied also in the explanation of trilokasaundarya ?(5.41).
trival? ?is neither an uttarapadalopin nor an uttarapada compound. An ensemble is meant. Naturally 2.1.50 and 51 are sufficient for forming the compound without invoking the concept of uttarapadalopin.? The ga?as?tra 50 appended to 4.1.45 takes care of the long ? of words like trival?. 
Best 
DB

--- On Wed, 17/3/10, girish jha <jhakgirish at YAHOO.COM> wrote:


From: girish jha <jhakgirish at YAHOO.COM>
Subject: Re: trivalI in compounds
To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk
Date: Wednesday, 17 March, 2010, 11:37 PM


Dear colleagues,
As far as trivalii in compounds is concerned,it makes an uttarapadalopin?Karmadhaaraya Compound :Triparimitaa valii trivalii.
GIRISH K.JHA?
?Tue, 3/16/10, Oliver Fallon <opfallon at YAHOO.COM> wrote:


From: Oliver Fallon <opfallon at YAHOO.COM>
Subject: trivalI in compounds
To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk
Date: Tuesday, March 16, 2010, 4:48 AM


Dear List Members,

Can anyone help finding a reference in Paninian literature for the
lengthening of the final vowel of trivali to trivalI in compounds?

MW says "f. in comp. the 3 folds over a woman's navel (regarded as a beauty)
VarB?S. lxx , 5 ?itus. GarP."

I have looked in P. 6.3.114-139, which appears to be the relevant section,
but may have missed something.

With thanks,
Oliver







? ? ? The INTERNET now has a personality. YOURS! See your Yahoo! Homepage. http://in.yahoo.com/



      




From glhart at BERKELEY.EDU  Sun Mar 21 03:10:57 2010
From: glhart at BERKELEY.EDU (George Hart)
Date: Sat, 20 Mar 10 20:10:57 -0700
Subject: Use of "World" in invocatory verse
Message-ID: <161227088918.23782.16827481129297563385.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

It is customary to use the word "ulakam" -- "world" (probably from Skt. loka) -- in invocatory verses (ka?avu? v??ttu) in Tamil.  "World" is also found in some invocations in Sanskrit (e.g. the first verse of the Raghuva??a -- jagata? pitarau).  Does anyone know of any articles on this custom?  I have a student who needs to research it further.  (It's worth noting also that the RV has what is called "avai a?akkam" in Tamil, in which the poet says in the most poetic possible language what a worthless poet he is, something also found commonly in Tamil). -- Thanks -- George Hart




From rajam at EARTHLINK.NET  Sun Mar 21 06:00:13 2010
From: rajam at EARTHLINK.NET (rajam)
Date: Sat, 20 Mar 10 23:00:13 -0700
Subject: Anyone heard of a flower called "aniccam?"
Message-ID: <161227088920.23782.4987350747728781148.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Has anyone on this list come across a plant/flower type named  
"aniccha" in any non-Tamil literature?
Has anyone seen it (in person or in a picture)?

"Aniccam" is listed just as a flower in early Tamil poetry. Later on,  
the focus is on the flower's super sensitivity--about how it would  
wilt at the contact of human breath, how it would harm a woman [with  
a slender waist] if she wears the flower without removing its  
stem, ... and so on.

There is a thought that the term "anicca" is derived thus: a + iccha  
(a + icchaa - Without Desire/Wish).

What is your thought? Are there similar flowers extolled in non-Tamil  
poetry for such super sensitivity?

Thanks and regards,
V.S. Rajam
< (www.letsgrammar.org)>




From h.arganisjuarez at YAHOO.COM.MX  Sun Mar 21 14:57:11 2010
From: h.arganisjuarez at YAHOO.COM.MX (Horacio Francisco Arganis Juarez)
Date: Sun, 21 Mar 10 07:57:11 -0700
Subject: Kalika-purana in e-form
In-Reply-To: <71681269182688@web44.yandex.ru>
Message-ID: <161227088929.23782.1830593868362001690.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Dear Madam:
Could you fine persona said me what is e-form? I want to help your quest.
Lic. M.A. Horacio Francisco Arganis Ju?rez
Catedr?tico Investigador de la Universidad
Internacional Euroamericana.
Departamento de Filosof?a y Religi?n Comparada.
Miembro del Instituto de Estudios Filos?ficos de Saltillo A. C.
www.uie.edu.es


--- El dom 21-mar-10, Viktoria Lyssenko <vglyssenko at YANDEX.RU> escribi?:

> De:: Viktoria Lyssenko <vglyssenko at YANDEX.RU>
> Asunto: Kalika-purana in e-form
> A: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk
> Fecha: domingo, 21 de marzo de 2010, 14:44
> Dear Colleagues,
> One of my students needs an English translation of
> Kalika-purana in e-form. Could anybody help?
> Victoria Lysenko,
> Research fellow,
> Institute of philosophy,
> Russian Academy of Sciences
> 


      Encuentra las mejores recetas en Yahoo! Cocina.                       
http://mx.mujer.yahoo.com/cocina/




From dbhattacharya2004 at YAHOO.CO.IN  Sun Mar 21 02:45:07 2010
From: dbhattacharya2004 at YAHOO.CO.IN (Dipak Bhattacharya)
Date: Sun, 21 Mar 10 08:15:07 +0530
Subject: trivalI in compounds
Message-ID: <161227088916.23782.6599594398761900377.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

the following note?had been?sent by me on 17 March in apprehension 
Best
DB
?
"Sometimes it appeared to "me that the long ? here is a post-P??inian development. See particularly the P?m?diga?a on 5.2.100.
Best
DB"


--- On Sat, 20/3/10, girish jha <jhakgirish at YAHOO.COM> wrote:


From: girish jha <jhakgirish at YAHOO.COM>
Subject: Re: trivalI in compounds
To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk
Date: Saturday, 20 March, 2010, 11:45 PM


?
Dear colleagues,
It is noteworthy that? trival? can?t be formed as a sam?h?ra Compound.? If we try to form it by P?n.ini? 2.1.51 taddhit?rthottarapadasam?h?re ca the derivation will be tisr.n.?m val?nam sam?h?rah.
1.The sam?sa is ?ordained by 2.1.51,
2.it is characterized as ?dvigu by 2.1.52 sankhy?purvo dviguh.After that
3.it takes singular by 2.4.1 dvigur ekavacanam and ??neuter gender by 2.4.17 sa napumsakam.
As a result ?trivali a neuter ?gender Compound word ending in short /i/ is formed. 
Now we cannot replace the short vowel of trivali by long one by any of the three gan?as?tras relating to 
4.1.45? bahv?dibhya? ca? as the sutra ?4.1.14 anupasarjan?t ??recurs? there.???? vali is an upasarjana as a compound form.We can?t convert it into a feminine form as only a dvigu? ending in /a/ can be in feminine by prescribing ??n??p? by 4.1.21 dvigoh.? As such we will have to convert vali into val? and then trival? may be formed by? the v?rttika ??kap?rthivadinam siddhaya? uttarapadalopasyopasamkhy?nam[s?kapriyah p?rthivah ??kap?rthivah]and the derivation will be triparimit? val? ?trival?.
GIRISH K. JHA
SANSKRIT,PATNA UNIVERSITY


--- On Thu, 3/18/10, Dipak Bhattacharya <dbhattacharya2004 at YAHOO.CO.IN> wrote:


From: Dipak Bhattacharya <dbhattacharya2004 at YAHOO.CO.IN>
Subject: Re: trivalI in compounds
To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk
Date: Thursday, March 18, 2010, 10:54 PM


After Jay?ditya?s explanation of P.2.1.51 taddhit?rthottarapadasam?h?re ca when, of a compound?formed after 2.1.50 the final meaning is that of a taddhita suffix or when a third word (uttarapada) follows the compound or when an ensemble is meant one gets a tatpuru?a compound. This uttarapada compound is different from the uttarapadalopin compound commonly illustrated with si?h?sana ?lion (marked) ?seat ?ie a throne?. Naturally trilokan?tha (Kum?rasambhava 5.77) has been explained by Mallin?tha as an uttarapada compound. This is implied also in the explanation of trilokasaundarya ?(5.41).
trival? ?is neither an uttarapadalopin nor an uttarapada compound. An ensemble is meant. Naturally 2.1.50 and 51 are sufficient for forming the compound without invoking the concept of uttarapadalopin.? The ga?as?tra 50 appended to 4.1.45 takes care of the long ? of words like trival?. 
Best 
DB

--- On Wed, 17/3/10, girish jha <jhakgirish at YAHOO.COM> wrote:


From: girish jha <jhakgirish at YAHOO.COM>
Subject: Re: trivalI in compounds
To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk
Date: Wednesday, 17 March, 2010, 11:37 PM


Dear colleagues,
As far as trivalii in compounds is concerned,it makes an uttarapadalopin?Karmadhaaraya Compound :Triparimitaa valii trivalii.
GIRISH K.JHA?
?Tue, 3/16/10, Oliver Fallon <opfallon at YAHOO.COM> wrote:


From: Oliver Fallon <opfallon at YAHOO.COM>
Subject: trivalI in compounds
To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk
Date: Tuesday, March 16, 2010, 4:48 AM


Dear List Members,

Can anyone help finding a reference in Paninian literature for the
lengthening of the final vowel of trivali to trivalI in compounds?

MW says "f. in comp. the 3 folds over a woman's navel (regarded as a beauty)
VarB?S. lxx , 5 ?itus. GarP."

I have looked in P. 6.3.114-139, which appears to be the relevant section,
but may have missed something.

With thanks,
Oliver







? ? ? The INTERNET now has a personality. YOURS! See your Yahoo! Homepage. http://in.yahoo.com/







      The INTERNET now has a personality. YOURS! See your Yahoo! Homepage. http://in.yahoo.com/




From gthomgt at COMCAST.NET  Sun Mar 21 12:18:05 2010
From: gthomgt at COMCAST.NET (george thompson)
Date: Sun, 21 Mar 10 08:18:05 -0400
Subject: Use of "World" in invocatory verse
In-Reply-To: <6C083CC0-D1E9-44CE-9631-3273A9FB84DC@berkeley.edu>
Message-ID: <161227088925.23782.632753298521578348.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Hello George,

Regarding the Vedic material, there is Jan Gonda's *Loka: World and 
Heaven in the Veda* in Verhandelingen der Koninklijke Nederlandse Akad. 
v. Wetenschappen, Afd. Letterkunde, N.R. -- Deel LXXIII, no. 1 [1966].  
Its last chapter touches briefly on some post-Vedic usages.

Hope this helps.

George Thompson

George Hart wrote:

>It is customary to use the word "ulakam" -- "world" (probably from Skt. loka) -- in invocatory verses (ka?avu? v??ttu) in Tamil.  "World" is also found in some invocations in Sanskrit (e.g. the first verse of the Raghuva??a -- jagata? pitarau).  Does anyone know of any articles on this custom?  I have a student who needs to research it further.  (It's worth noting also that the RV has what is called "avai a?akkam" in Tamil, in which the poet says in the most poetic possible language what a worthless poet he is, something also found commonly in Tamil). -- Thanks -- George Hart
>  
>




From wc3 at SOAS.AC.UK  Sun Mar 21 08:18:18 2010
From: wc3 at SOAS.AC.UK (Whitney Cox)
Date: Sun, 21 Mar 10 08:18:18 +0000
Subject: Anyone heard of a flower called "aniccam?"
In-Reply-To: <5B3C29CA-C6D1-4DCA-A4F2-76FCFF8F8F84@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <161227088922.23782.5553453176271572649.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Dear Rajam,

In line with your observation that the flower is supposedly "super
sensitive", it seems possible to me that the derivation of the name
might be from a-nitya ("impermanent," "perishable"), rather than
an+icch? (I see that the MTL, p. 191 thinks the same thing).  However,
I don't know of any flower called anitya in Sanskrit.

Best regards,

Whitney

On 21 March 2010 06:00, rajam <rajam at earthlink.net> wrote:
> Has anyone on this list come across a plant/flower type named "aniccha" in
> any non-Tamil literature?
> Has anyone seen it (in person or in a picture)?
>
> "Aniccam" is listed just as a flower in early Tamil poetry. Later on, the
> focus is on the flower's super sensitivity--about how it would wilt at the
> contact of human breath, how it would harm a woman [with a slender waist] if
> she wears the flower without removing its stem, ... and so on.
>
> There is a thought that the term "anicca" is derived thus: a + iccha (a +
> icchaa - Without Desire/Wish).
>
> What is your thought? Are there similar flowers extolled in non-Tamil poetry
> for such super sensitivity?
>
> Thanks and regards,
> V.S. Rajam
> < (www.letsgrammar.org)>
>



-- 


Dr. Whitney Cox
Department of the Languages and Cultures of South Asia,
School of Oriental and African Studies
Thornhaugh Street, Russell Square
London WC1H 0XG




From rajam at EARTHLINK.NET  Sun Mar 21 15:54:05 2010
From: rajam at EARTHLINK.NET (rajam)
Date: Sun, 21 Mar 10 08:54:05 -0700
Subject: Anyone heard of a flower called "aniccam?"
In-Reply-To: <76c1007b1003210118u32236e08l6feb3509b9ea41f8@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <161227088934.23782.2892550960783311424.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Dear Whitney,

The poems don't indicate that the flower perishes, though. The  
emphasis is on its delicateness, softness, and gentleness. So I  
wonder whether the flower's "reflex" action ("to wilt" when someone  
smells it) fascinated the poet. Maybe one could find a similar flower  
somewhere -- I hope!

Thanks and regards,
VSR

On Mar 21, 2010, at 1:18 AM, Whitney Cox wrote:

> Dear Rajam,
>
> In line with your observation that the flower is supposedly "super
> sensitive", it seems possible to me that the derivation of the name
> might be from a-nitya ("impermanent," "perishable"), rather than
> an+icch? (I see that the MTL, p. 191 thinks the same thing).   
> However,
> I don't know of any flower called anitya in Sanskrit.
>
> Best regards,
>
> Whitney
>
> On 21 March 2010 06:00, rajam <rajam at earthlink.net> wrote:
>> Has anyone on this list come across a plant/flower type named  
>> "aniccha" in
>> any non-Tamil literature?
>> Has anyone seen it (in person or in a picture)?
>>
>> "Aniccam" is listed just as a flower in early Tamil poetry. Later  
>> on, the
>> focus is on the flower's super sensitivity--about how it would  
>> wilt at the
>> contact of human breath, how it would harm a woman [with a slender  
>> waist] if
>> she wears the flower without removing its stem, ... and so on.
>>
>> There is a thought that the term "anicca" is derived thus: a +  
>> iccha (a +
>> icchaa - Without Desire/Wish).
>>
>> What is your thought? Are there similar flowers extolled in non- 
>> Tamil poetry
>> for such super sensitivity?
>>
>> Thanks and regards,
>> V.S. Rajam
>> < (www.letsgrammar.org)>
>>
>
>
>
> -- 
>
>
> Dr. Whitney Cox
> Department of the Languages and Cultures of South Asia,
> School of Oriental and African Studies
> Thornhaugh Street, Russell Square
> London WC1H 0XG




From witzel at FAS.HARVARD.EDU  Sun Mar 21 16:09:56 2010
From: witzel at FAS.HARVARD.EDU (Michael Witzel)
Date: Sun, 21 Mar 10 12:09:56 -0400
Subject: Anyone heard of a flower called "aniccam?"
In-Reply-To: <8C03634A-E71A-42EE-BEC4-AFB97BE02C55@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <161227088936.23782.6034555708936206290.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

The whole discussion (here and in Tamil) reminded me of the little  
yellow  flower,  called 'noli me tangere' "don't touch me!" in Latin.

For some details see: <http://www.aboutflowers.org/ 
giantbalsamim_xal.htm>  (also in N. India)

(Leaves of certain trees also do that: they fold on touch).

Cheers,
MW


On Mar 21, 2010, at 11:54 AM, rajam wrote:

> Dear Whitney,
>
> The poems don't indicate that the flower perishes, though. The  
> emphasis is on its delicateness, softness, and gentleness. So I  
> wonder whether the flower's "reflex" action ("to wilt" when someone  
> smells it) fascinated the poet. Maybe one could find a similar  
> flower somewhere -- I hope!
>
> Thanks and regards,
> VSR
>
> On Mar 21, 2010, at 1:18 AM, Whitney Cox wrote:
>
>> Dear Rajam,
>>
>> In line with your observation that the flower is supposedly "super
>> sensitive", it seems possible to me that the derivation of the name
>> might be from a-nitya ("impermanent," "perishable"), rather than
>> an+icch? (I see that the MTL, p. 191 thinks the same thing).   
>> However,
>> I don't know of any flower called anitya in Sanskrit.
>>
>> Best regards,
>>
>> Whitney
>>
>> On 21 March 2010 06:00, rajam <rajam at earthlink.net> wrote:
>>> Has anyone on this list come across a plant/flower type named  
>>> "aniccha" in
>>> any non-Tamil literature?
>>> Has anyone seen it (in person or in a picture)?
>>>
>>> "Aniccam" is listed just as a flower in early Tamil poetry. Later  
>>> on, the
>>> focus is on the flower's super sensitivity--about how it would  
>>> wilt at the
>>> contact of human breath, how it would harm a woman [with a  
>>> slender waist] if
>>> she wears the flower without removing its stem, ... and so on.
>>>
>>> There is a thought that the term "anicca" is derived thus: a +  
>>> iccha (a +
>>> icchaa - Without Desire/Wish).
>>>
>>> What is your thought? Are there similar flowers extolled in non- 
>>> Tamil poetry
>>> for such super sensitivity?
>>>
>>> Thanks and regards,
>>> V.S. Rajam
>>> < (www.letsgrammar.org)>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -- 
>>
>>
>> Dr. Whitney Cox
>> Department of the Languages and Cultures of South Asia,
>> School of Oriental and African Studies
>> Thornhaugh Street, Russell Square
>> London WC1H 0XG

============
Michael Witzel
witzel at fas.harvard.edu
<www.fas.harvard.edu/~witzel/mwpage.htm>

Dept. of Sanskrit & Indian Studies, Harvard University
1 Bow Street,
Cambridge MA 02138, USA

phone: 1- 617 - 495 3295, 496 8570, fax 617 - 496 8571;
my direct line:  617- 496 2990




From mkapstei at UCHICAGO.EDU  Sun Mar 21 18:10:35 2010
From: mkapstei at UCHICAGO.EDU (mkapstei at UCHICAGO.EDU)
Date: Sun, 21 Mar 10 13:10:35 -0500
Subject: Biblio query
In-Reply-To: <EC943A29FC094A54A18AFB98FDC3FC5E@taticek>
Message-ID: <161227088939.23782.10533209743381230426.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

The page range for the article cited is pp. 268-278.

---- Original message ----
>
>Tashi Tsering, 'On the Dates of Thang stong rgyal po' in
Ramon N. Prats ed.
>The Pandita and the Siddha: Tibetan Studies in Honour of E.
Gene Smith, New
>Delhi: Amnye Machen, 2007

Matthew T. Kapstein
Numata Visiting Professor of Buddhist Studies
The University of Chicago Divinity School

Directeur d'?tudes
Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes, Paris




From filipsky at RZONE.CZ  Sun Mar 21 15:15:14 2010
From: filipsky at RZONE.CZ (=?utf-8?Q?Jan_Filipsk=C3=BD?=)
Date: Sun, 21 Mar 10 16:15:14 +0100
Subject: Biblio query
Message-ID: <161227088932.23782.10072578056046350931.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Dear List,

could any members be so kind as to supply off-list the exact pagination to
the following bibliographic entry:

 

Tashi Tsering, 'On the Dates of Thang stong rgyal po' in Ramon N. Prats ed.
The Pandita and the Siddha: Tibetan Studies in Honour of E. Gene Smith, New
Delhi: Amnye Machen, 2007

 

Gratefully,

Jan Filipsky, Praha




From vglyssenko at YANDEX.RU  Sun Mar 21 14:44:48 2010
From: vglyssenko at YANDEX.RU (Viktoria Lyssenko)
Date: Sun, 21 Mar 10 17:44:48 +0300
Subject: Kalika-purana in e-form
Message-ID: <161227088927.23782.5138133428805706544.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Dear Colleagues,
One of my students needs an English translation of Kalika-purana in e-form. Could anybody help?
Victoria Lysenko,
Research fellow,
Institute of philosophy,
Russian Academy of Sciences




From palaniappa at AOL.COM  Mon Mar 22 04:24:32 2010
From: palaniappa at AOL.COM (Sudalaimuthu Palaniappan)
Date: Sun, 21 Mar 10 23:24:32 -0500
Subject: Survival of 'veRikkaLam' into the 21st century
Message-ID: <161227088943.23782.16003329095108513215.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

I recently saw a Malayalam movie  'pAlERimANikyam'. (For more details about the film, see http://www.zimbio.com/South+Indian+Actresses/articles/r99ijGnRExb/Paleri+Manickam+Movie+Review)

While it is a 21st century film based on events in the mid-20th century, there is a reason to discuss the film in Indology because of the name of a ritual depicted in the film. The setting of the story is in a mountain village. The ritual is an exorcism ritual done for a girl. The name of the ritual as used in the movie is 'veRikkaLam'. (See the clip between 3:05-3:06 to hear the name of the ceremony. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ytZp2q6_BCM&feature=related.) The senior priest tells the younger assistant to come to aid in the ceremony instead of going to see a drama. The ceremony is seen in the following clip beginning at 00:40 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xgvY_QlgKAI&feature=related .The ritual is also referred to in the following clip between 3:35 and 3:45. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JS18Wqj0A4s&feature=related .

While kaLam 'altar' or 'ritual space' is well-known in connection with Kerala rituals and Tamil scholars have related it to the Classical Tamil usage 'veRikkkaLam' (maturaikkAJci 284), when I heard the usage for the first time in this movie, it was like a naturalist discovering a species that was considered extinct for a long time. Of course, the Namboodri Brahmins perform (have taken over?) such rituals at the higher echelons of the society (See the ritual beginning 5:31 and the mention of the name 'kaLam' at 6:07 in the clip http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VePKrhTZTpI&feature=related ). The usage 'veRikkaLam' is not found in 'Malayalam-English Dictionary' by M.J. Warrier, E. P. Narayana Bhattathiry, and K. Radhakrishna Warrier. My Malayalam friends whom I asked had not heard of such a term. It is possible that T. P. Rajeevan, the author of the original novel, or the later movie script writers have used the term based on the actual usage in a part of Kerala. The early Tamil term for the dance is either 'veRi' or 'veRiyATTu'. Stritctly speaking, 'veRikkaLam' is the altar. The Kerala usage seems to be a case of metonymy in referring to the ritual. All the same, the continuity of the usage over two millennia, long after the dominant groups had abandoned or downgraded it, is very interesting. I would appreciate if anybody could add more light on this usage in Kerala.

As I pondered about posting this, a question crossed my mind on the dating of Classical Tamil poetry. If the attested usage of 'veRikkaLam' in 1957 Kerala/Malabar is confirmed, will it cause an Indologist of the 22nd century to date MaturaikkAJci (with its use of 'veRikkaLam') as not earlier than 1957 and the whole Classical Tamil poetry to be the Tamil nationalist creation of the DMK government which came to power in 1967? 

Regards,
Palaniappan



From palaniappa at AOL.COM  Mon Mar 22 04:43:19 2010
From: palaniappa at AOL.COM (Sudalaimuthu Palaniappan)
Date: Sun, 21 Mar 10 23:43:19 -0500
Subject: Survival of 'veRikkaLam' into the 21st century
Message-ID: <161227088948.23782.1250985540812055609.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

I recently saw a Malayalam movie  'pAlERimANikyam'. (For more details about the film, see http://www.zimbio.com/South+Indian+Actresses/articles/r99ijGnRExb/Paleri+Manickam+Movie+Review)

While it is a 21st century film based on events in the mid-20th century, there is a reason to discuss the film in Indology because of the name of a ritual depicted in the film. The setting of the story is in a mountain village. The ritual is an exorcism ritual done for a girl. The name of the ritual as used in the movie is 'veRikkaLam'. (See the clip between 3:05-3:06 to hear the name of the ceremony. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ytZp2q6_BCM&feature=related.) The senior priest tells the younger assistant to come to aid in the ceremony instead of going to see a drama. The ceremony is seen in the following clip beginning at 00:40 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xgvY_QlgKAI&feature=related .The ritual is also referred to in the following clip between 3:35 and 3:45. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JS18Wqj0A4s&feature=related .

While kaLam 'altar' or 'ritual space' is well-known in connection with Kerala rituals and Tamil scholars have related it to the Classical Tamil usage 'veRikkkaLam' (maturaikkAJci 284), when I heard the usage for the first time in this movie, it was like a naturalist discovering a species that was considered extinct for a long time. Of course, the Namboodri Brahmins perform (have taken over?) such rituals at the higher echelons of the society (See the ritual beginning 5:31 and the mention of the name 'kaLam' at 6:07 in the clip http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VePKrhTZTpI&feature=related ). The usage 'veRikkaLam' is not found in 'Malayalam-English Dictionary' by M.J. Warrier, E. P. Narayana Bhattathiry, and K. Radhakrishna Warrier. My Malayalam friends whom I asked had not heard of such a term. It is possible that T. P. Rajeevan, the author of the original novel, or the later movie script writers have used the term based on the actual usage in a part of Kerala. The early Tamil term for the dance is either 'veRi' or 'veRiyATTu'. Stritctly speaking, 'veRikkaLam' is the altar. The Kerala usage seems to be a case of metonymy in referring to the ritual. All the same, the continuity of the usage over two millennia, long after the dominant groups had abandoned or downgraded it, is very interesting. I would appreciate if anybody could add more light on this usage in Kerala.

As I pondered about posting this, a question crossed my mind on the dating of Classical Tamil poetry. If the attested usage of 'veRikkaLam' in 1957 Kerala/Malabar is confirmed, will it cause an Indologist of the 22nd century to date MaturaikkAJci (with its use of 'veRikkaLam') as not earlier than 1957 and the whole Classical Tamil poetry to be the Tamil nationalist creation of the DMK government which came to power in 1967? 

Regards,
S. Palaniappan




From ocattedra at YAHOO.COM.AR  Mon Mar 22 14:10:52 2010
From: ocattedra at YAHOO.COM.AR (olivia cattedra)
Date: Mon, 22 Mar 10 07:10:52 -0700
Subject: Moksa/Nirvana
In-Reply-To: <173861269241284@webmail104.yandex.ru>
Message-ID: <161227088961.23782.15692523309008986989.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>


I agree with Viktoria, and also I would? add that nirvana, meaning of blowing out? (the movements
of the mind)?? has a more psychological
connotation? as it seems to be the? context of Buddhism itself. By the other hand,? moksa acquires a more ontological
sense. This
corresponds
to the unveiling, revelation of the self (atman / brahman) in? the
fourth state of? conscience, advaita, non dual,? proper of the Vedanta.
I think that the difference if there is such, lies in the basic
perspective of Buddhism and Ved?nta.? An old,? but still very necessary work,? to observe these nuances is? Karmarkar on Gaudapada K?rik?.

Olivia Cattedra

CONICET



--- El lun 22-mar-10, Viktoria Lyssenko <vglyssenko at YANDEX.RU> escribi?:

De: Viktoria Lyssenko <vglyssenko at YANDEX.RU>
Asunto: Re: Moksa/Nirvana
Para: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk
Fecha: lunes, 22 de marzo de 2010, 4:01

Dear Mary,
In my opinion, the meanings of the both largerly overlap in signifying the release from samsara, and in no way the belief in soul/no soul does determine the difference between them as the word nirvana was used not only in Buddhism but in other traditions, like Jainism and Ajivika, especially during the sramana period. The term moksha may seem? more litteral (moksha from the root muc - to let loose) while nirvana more metaphorical (nirvana means "blowing out [the fire of passions]"), but, in the final analysis, both are metaphorical as their sense is quite different from that in the ordinary usus (vyavahara). Still there is a difference in nuances: nirvana puts to the fore the state of overcoming the affects (klesha, nivarana, avarana) and the tranquil state of mind which is rather associated with the absence of suffering then with the state of bliss (ananda), while moksha underlines the release from the burden of samsara as such which does not determine
 the character of this state - it may be either bliss (ananda) as in the majority of schools or absence of sufferings as in Vaisheshika .
Victoria Lysenko
Russian Academy of sciences

22.03.10, 10:58, "Mary Storm" <mnstorm at MAC.COM>:

> Dear Indologists,
>? 
>? I wonder if someone could clarify for me the nuances between the? 
>? meaning of moksa and nirvana? Do both imply release from samsara?? It? 
>? seems as if a belief in soul/no soul has to determine the meaning and? 
>? I know the meanings change over the centuries.... but some quick? 
>? insights would be very welcome.
>? 
>? Apologies for such a broad question.
>? 
>? Thanks so much for your thoughts!
>? 
>? Mary
>? 
>? Mary N. Storm, Ph.D.
>? Academic Director and Lecturer
>? India: National Identity and the Arts
>? and
>? Himalayan Buddhist Art and Architecture
>? SIT Study Abroad
>? www.sit.edu
>? 
>? F 301 Lado Sarai
>? New Delhi 110030
>? 
>? Mobile +91 98106 98003
>? Office Landline? +91 11 2437 8003
>? Residence Landline +91 11295 53298
>? 
>? 

-- 
????? ????? ??? http://mail.yandex.ru/nospam/sign


      Yahoo! Cocina

Encontra las mejores recetas con Yahoo! Cocina.


http://ar.mujer.yahoo.com/cocina/




From dominic.goodall at GMAIL.COM  Mon Mar 22 03:31:19 2010
From: dominic.goodall at GMAIL.COM (Dominic Goodall)
Date: Mon, 22 Mar 10 09:01:19 +0530
Subject: Anyone heard of a flower called "aniccam?"
In-Reply-To: <DE18422D-48FD-4685-A81D-049C74C53DE0@fas.harvard.edu>
Message-ID: <161227088941.23782.3941644074875394879.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

This reminds me that in the hills in the South today one finds plenty  
of Mimosa pudica, whose leaves temporarily fold up the second that you  
touch them, or indeed blow on them.

But I am not sure how long these plants have been growing there, for  
the Pandanus website (http://iu.ff.cuni.cz/pandanus/database/),
quoting Dymock, Warden, Hooper: Pharmacographia Indica, vol. I, pp.  
538-539, calls Mimosa pudica a "native of Brazil long naturalized in  
India".

Dominic Goodall

On 21 Mar 2010, at 21:39, Michael Witzel wrote:

> The whole discussion (here and in Tamil) reminded me of the little  
> yellow  flower,  called 'noli me tangere' "don't touch me!" in Latin.
>
> For some details see: <http://www.aboutflowers.org/giantbalsamim_xal.htm 
> >  (also in N. India)
>
> (Leaves of certain trees also do that: they fold on touch).
>
> Cheers,
> MW
>
>
> On Mar 21, 2010, at 11:54 AM, rajam wrote:
>
>> Dear Whitney,
>>
>> The poems don't indicate that the flower perishes, though. The  
>> emphasis is on its delicateness, softness, and gentleness. So I  
>> wonder whether the flower's "reflex" action ("to wilt" when someone  
>> smells it) fascinated the poet. Maybe one could find a similar  
>> flower somewhere -- I hope!
>>
>> Thanks and regards,
>> VSR
>>
>> On Mar 21, 2010, at 1:18 AM, Whitney Cox wrote:
>>
>>> Dear Rajam,
>>>
>>> In line with your observation that the flower is supposedly "super
>>> sensitive", it seems possible to me that the derivation of the name
>>> might be from a-nitya ("impermanent," "perishable"), rather than
>>> an+icch? (I see that the MTL, p. 191 thinks the same thing).   
>>> However,
>>> I don't know of any flower called anitya in Sanskrit.
>>>
>>> Best regards,
>>>
>>> Whitney
>>>
>>> On 21 March 2010 06:00, rajam <rajam at earthlink.net> wrote:
>>>> Has anyone on this list come across a plant/flower type named  
>>>> "aniccha" in
>>>> any non-Tamil literature?
>>>> Has anyone seen it (in person or in a picture)?
>>>>
>>>> "Aniccam" is listed just as a flower in early Tamil poetry. Later  
>>>> on, the
>>>> focus is on the flower's super sensitivity--about how it would  
>>>> wilt at the
>>>> contact of human breath, how it would harm a woman [with a  
>>>> slender waist] if
>>>> she wears the flower without removing its stem, ... and so on.
>>>>
>>>> There is a thought that the term "anicca" is derived thus: a +  
>>>> iccha (a +
>>>> icchaa - Without Desire/Wish).
>>>>
>>>> What is your thought? Are there similar flowers extolled in non- 
>>>> Tamil poetry
>>>> for such super sensitivity?
>>>>
>>>> Thanks and regards,
>>>> V.S. Rajam
>>>> < (www.letsgrammar.org)>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -- 
>>>
>>>
>>> Dr. Whitney Cox
>>> Department of the Languages and Cultures of South Asia,
>>> School of Oriental and African Studies
>>> Thornhaugh Street, Russell Square
>>> London WC1H 0XG
>
> ============
> Michael Witzel
> witzel at fas.harvard.edu
> <www.fas.harvard.edu/~witzel/mwpage.htm>
>
> Dept. of Sanskrit & Indian Studies, Harvard University
> 1 Bow Street,
> Cambridge MA 02138, USA
>
> phone: 1- 617 - 495 3295, 496 8570, fax 617 - 496 8571;
> my direct line:  617- 496 2990




From vglyssenko at YANDEX.RU  Mon Mar 22 07:01:24 2010
From: vglyssenko at YANDEX.RU (Viktoria Lyssenko)
Date: Mon, 22 Mar 10 10:01:24 +0300
Subject: Moksa/Nirvana
In-Reply-To: <EBAE8D19-5984-4EC3-989C-29C0F9EAD23C@mac.com>
Message-ID: <161227088958.23782.11296837286448010789.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Dear Mary,
In my opinion, the meanings of the both largerly overlap in signifying the release from samsara, and in no way the belief in soul/no soul does determine the difference between them as the word nirvana was used not only in Buddhism but in other traditions, like Jainism and Ajivika, especially during the sramana period. The term moksha may seem  more litteral (moksha from the root muc - to let loose) while nirvana more metaphorical (nirvana means "blowing out [the fire of passions]"), but, in the final analysis, both are metaphorical as their sense is quite different from that in the ordinary usus (vyavahara). Still there is a difference in nuances: nirvana puts to the fore the state of overcoming the affects (klesha, nivarana, avarana) and the tranquil state of mind which is rather associated with the absence of suffering then with the state of bliss (ananda), while moksha underlines the release from the burden of samsara as such which does not determine the character of this state - it may be either bliss (ananda) as in the majority of schools or absence of sufferings as in Vaisheshika .
Victoria Lysenko
Russian Academy of sciences

22.03.10, 10:58, "Mary Storm" <mnstorm at MAC.COM>:

> Dear Indologists,
>  
>  I wonder if someone could clarify for me the nuances between the  
>  meaning of moksa and nirvana? Do both imply release from samsara?  It  
>  seems as if a belief in soul/no soul has to determine the meaning and  
>  I know the meanings change over the centuries.... but some quick  
>  insights would be very welcome.
>  
>  Apologies for such a broad question.
>  
>  Thanks so much for your thoughts!
>  
>  Mary
>  
>  Mary N. Storm, Ph.D.
>  Academic Director and Lecturer
>  India: National Identity and the Arts
>  and
>  Himalayan Buddhist Art and Architecture
>  SIT Study Abroad
>  www.sit.edu
>  
>  F 301 Lado Sarai
>  New Delhi 110030
>  
>  Mobile +91 98106 98003
>  Office Landline  +91 11 2437 8003
>  Residence Landline +91 11295 53298
>  
>  

-- 
????? ????? ??? http://mail.yandex.ru/nospam/sign



From dbhattacharya2004 at YAHOO.CO.IN  Mon Mar 22 04:37:32 2010
From: dbhattacharya2004 at YAHOO.CO.IN (Dipak Bhattacharya)
Date: Mon, 22 Mar 10 10:07:32 +0530
Subject: Anyone heard of a flower called "aniccam?"
In-Reply-To: <662816A8-CBE5-405D-9389-5519322A2DD9@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <161227088945.23782.2940255244471025051.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Mimosa pudica is Thottalvadi in Tamil not aniccam.
Best 
DB

--- On Mon, 22/3/10, Dominic Goodall <dominic.goodall at GMAIL.COM> wrote:


From: Dominic Goodall <dominic.goodall at GMAIL.COM>
Subject: Re: Anyone heard of a flower called "aniccam?"
To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk
Date: Monday, 22 March, 2010, 9:01 AM


This reminds me that in the hills in the South today one finds plenty of Mimosa pudica, whose leaves temporarily fold up the second that you touch them, or indeed blow on them.

But I am not sure how long these plants have been growing there, for the Pandanus website (http://iu.ff.cuni.cz/pandanus/database/),
quoting Dymock, Warden, Hooper: Pharmacographia Indica, vol. I, pp. 538-539, calls Mimosa pudica a "native of Brazil long naturalized in India".

Dominic Goodall

On 21 Mar 2010, at 21:39, Michael Witzel wrote:

> The whole discussion (here and in Tamil) reminded me of the little yellow? flower,? called 'noli me tangere' "don't touch me!" in Latin.
> 
> For some details see: <http://www.aboutflowers.org/giantbalsamim_xal.htm>? (also in N. India)
> 
> (Leaves of certain trees also do that: they fold on touch).
> 
> Cheers,
> MW
> 
> 
> On Mar 21, 2010, at 11:54 AM, rajam wrote:
> 
>> Dear Whitney,
>> 
>> The poems don't indicate that the flower perishes, though. The emphasis is on its delicateness, softness, and gentleness. So I wonder whether the flower's "reflex" action ("to wilt" when someone smells it) fascinated the poet. Maybe one could find a similar flower somewhere -- I hope!
>> 
>> Thanks and regards,
>> VSR
>> 
>> On Mar 21, 2010, at 1:18 AM, Whitney Cox wrote:
>> 
>>> Dear Rajam,
>>> 
>>> In line with your observation that the flower is supposedly "super
>>> sensitive", it seems possible to me that the derivation of the name
>>> might be from a-nitya ("impermanent," "perishable"), rather than
>>> an+icch? (I see that the MTL, p. 191 thinks the same thing).? However,
>>> I don't know of any flower called anitya in Sanskrit.
>>> 
>>> Best regards,
>>> 
>>> Whitney
>>> 
>>> On 21 March 2010 06:00, rajam <rajam at earthlink.net> wrote:
>>>> Has anyone on this list come across a plant/flower type named "aniccha" in
>>>> any non-Tamil literature?
>>>> Has anyone seen it (in person or in a picture)?
>>>> 
>>>> "Aniccam" is listed just as a flower in early Tamil poetry. Later on, the
>>>> focus is on the flower's super sensitivity--about how it would wilt at the
>>>> contact of human breath, how it would harm a woman [with a slender waist] if
>>>> she wears the flower without removing its stem, ... and so on.
>>>> 
>>>> There is a thought that the term "anicca" is derived thus: a + iccha (a +
>>>> icchaa - Without Desire/Wish).
>>>> 
>>>> What is your thought? Are there similar flowers extolled in non-Tamil poetry
>>>> for such super sensitivity?
>>>> 
>>>> Thanks and regards,
>>>> V.S. Rajam
>>>> < (www.letsgrammar.org)>
>>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> --
>>> 
>>> Dr. Whitney Cox
>>> Department of the Languages and Cultures of South Asia,
>>> School of Oriental and African Studies
>>> Thornhaugh Street, Russell Square
>>> London WC1H 0XG
> 
> ============
> Michael Witzel
> witzel at fas.harvard.edu
> <www.fas.harvard.edu/~witzel/mwpage.htm>
> 
> Dept. of Sanskrit & Indian Studies, Harvard University
> 1 Bow Street,
> Cambridge MA 02138, USA
> 
> phone: 1- 617 - 495 3295, 496 8570, fax 617 - 496 8571;
> my direct line:? 617- 496 2990



      The INTERNET now has a personality. YOURS! See your Yahoo! Homepage. http://in.yahoo.com/




From mnstorm at MAC.COM  Mon Mar 22 05:28:54 2010
From: mnstorm at MAC.COM (Mary Storm)
Date: Mon, 22 Mar 10 10:58:54 +0530
Subject: Moksa/Nirvana
Message-ID: <161227088950.23782.12257192923315243366.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Dear Indologists,

I wonder if someone could clarify for me the nuances between the  
meaning of moksa and nirvana? Do both imply release from samsara?  It  
seems as if a belief in soul/no soul has to determine the meaning and  
I know the meanings change over the centuries.... but some quick  
insights would be very welcome.

Apologies for such a broad question.

Thanks so much for your thoughts!

Mary

Mary N. Storm, Ph.D.
Academic Director and Lecturer
India: National Identity and the Arts
and
Himalayan Buddhist Art and Architecture
SIT Study Abroad
www.sit.edu

F 301 Lado Sarai
New Delhi 110030

Mobile +91 98106 98003
Office Landline  +91 11 2437 8003
Residence Landline +91 11295 53298




From athr at LOC.GOV  Mon Mar 22 15:40:12 2010
From: athr at LOC.GOV (Allen W Thrasher)
Date: Mon, 22 Mar 10 11:40:12 -0400
Subject: Anyone heard of a flower called "aniccam?"
Message-ID: <161227088963.23782.16195922626565796405.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

I would suspect Albizia julibrissin, which according to the Wiki article < http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albizia_julibrissin > is native from Iran east to China and Korea.  In many places the common, horticultural, or trade name is Mimosa.  We had several in our yard in Norfolk, Virginia, in the '50s, one unusually tall,  but all the ones in the region were killed by a disease, though they started growing back, presumably from seeds in the ground, about 10 years later.  The leaves fold up each evening and as I recall do the same when touched, although the Wiki article mentions the former but not the latter. (One online gardener's list says they do.)  The flowers are like little powder puffs, much like Mimosa pudica, and are indeed quite soft, as are the leaves.  

To judge from the wide range of climate in which it is supposedly native and the wider range in which it is ornamental or invasive, it seems adaptible in the extreme.  In some places it is regarded as invasive and the government has taken measures against it.

My impression is that India is so rich in large ornamental trees, shrubs, and vines, that small herbaceous flowers are relatively ignored.  This makes me think this tree a more likely candidate than the earth-hugging Mimosa pudica.

The Wiki article Mimosa indicates that the taxonomy of plants called Mimosa has been very confusing and shifting.


Allen


Allen W. Thrasher, Ph.D.
Senior Reference Librarian
Team Coordinator
South Asia Team, Asian Division
Library of Congress, Jefferson Building 150
101 Independence Ave., S.E.
Washington, DC 20540-4810
tel. 202-707-3732; fax 202-707-1724; athr at loc.gov
The opinions expressed do not necessarily reflect those of the Library of Congress.




From venetia.ansell at GMAIL.COM  Mon Mar 22 06:10:14 2010
From: venetia.ansell at GMAIL.COM (venetia ansell)
Date: Mon, 22 Mar 10 11:40:14 +0530
Subject: Anyone heard of a flower called "aniccam?"
In-Reply-To: <471112.10357.qm@web8603.mail.in.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <161227088953.23782.6410846502480752784.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Mimosa pudica is certainly very common in Karnataka - it's called chhui mui
in Hindi, mutthidaremuni in Kannada I think, and lajjaa (as in bashfulness)
in Sanskrit.

On Mon, Mar 22, 2010 at 10:07 AM, Dipak Bhattacharya <
dbhattacharya2004 at yahoo.co.in> wrote:

> Mimosa pudica is Thottalvadi in Tamil not aniccam.
> Best
> DB
>
> --- On Mon, 22/3/10, Dominic Goodall <dominic.goodall at GMAIL.COM> wrote:
>
>
> From: Dominic Goodall <dominic.goodall at GMAIL.COM>
> Subject: Re: Anyone heard of a flower called "aniccam?"
> To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk
> Date: Monday, 22 March, 2010, 9:01 AM
>
>
> This reminds me that in the hills in the South today one finds plenty of
> Mimosa pudica, whose leaves temporarily fold up the second that you touch
> them, or indeed blow on them.
>
> But I am not sure how long these plants have been growing there, for the
> Pandanus website (http://iu.ff.cuni.cz/pandanus/database/),
> quoting Dymock, Warden, Hooper: Pharmacographia Indica, vol. I, pp.
> 538-539, calls Mimosa pudica a "native of Brazil long naturalized in India".
>
> Dominic Goodall
>
> On 21 Mar 2010, at 21:39, Michael Witzel wrote:
>
> > The whole discussion (here and in Tamil) reminded me of the little
> yellow  flower,  called 'noli me tangere' "don't touch me!" in Latin.
> >
> > For some details see: <http://www.aboutflowers.org/giantbalsamim_xal.htm>
> (also in N. India)
> >
> > (Leaves of certain trees also do that: they fold on touch).
> >
> > Cheers,
> > MW
> >
> >
> > On Mar 21, 2010, at 11:54 AM, rajam wrote:
> >
> >> Dear Whitney,
> >>
> >> The poems don't indicate that the flower perishes, though. The emphasis
> is on its delicateness, softness, and gentleness. So I wonder whether the
> flower's "reflex" action ("to wilt" when someone smells it) fascinated the
> poet. Maybe one could find a similar flower somewhere -- I hope!
> >>
> >> Thanks and regards,
> >> VSR
> >>
> >> On Mar 21, 2010, at 1:18 AM, Whitney Cox wrote:
> >>
> >>> Dear Rajam,
> >>>
> >>> In line with your observation that the flower is supposedly "super
> >>> sensitive", it seems possible to me that the derivation of the name
> >>> might be from a-nitya ("impermanent," "perishable"), rather than
> >>> an+icch? (I see that the MTL, p. 191 thinks the same thing).  However,
> >>> I don't know of any flower called anitya in Sanskrit.
> >>>
> >>> Best regards,
> >>>
> >>> Whitney
> >>>
> >>> On 21 March 2010 06:00, rajam <rajam at earthlink.net> wrote:
> >>>> Has anyone on this list come across a plant/flower type named
> "aniccha" in
> >>>> any non-Tamil literature?
> >>>> Has anyone seen it (in person or in a picture)?
> >>>>
> >>>> "Aniccam" is listed just as a flower in early Tamil poetry. Later on,
> the
> >>>> focus is on the flower's super sensitivity--about how it would wilt at
> the
> >>>> contact of human breath, how it would harm a woman [with a slender
> waist] if
> >>>> she wears the flower without removing its stem, ... and so on.
> >>>>
> >>>> There is a thought that the term "anicca" is derived thus: a + iccha
> (a +
> >>>> icchaa - Without Desire/Wish).
> >>>>
> >>>> What is your thought? Are there similar flowers extolled in non-Tamil
> poetry
> >>>> for such super sensitivity?
> >>>>
> >>>> Thanks and regards,
> >>>> V.S. Rajam
> >>>> < (www.letsgrammar.org)>
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> --
> >>>
> >>> Dr. Whitney Cox
> >>> Department of the Languages and Cultures of South Asia,
> >>> School of Oriental and African Studies
> >>> Thornhaugh Street, Russell Square
> >>> London WC1H 0XG
> >
> > ============
> > Michael Witzel
> > witzel at fas.harvard.edu
> > <www.fas.harvard.edu/~witzel/mwpage.htm>
> >
> > Dept. of Sanskrit & Indian Studies, Harvard University
> > 1 Bow Street,
> > Cambridge MA 02138, USA
> >
> > phone: 1- 617 - 495 3295, 496 8570, fax 617 - 496 8571;
> > my direct line:  617- 496 2990
>
>
>
>      The INTERNET now has a personality. YOURS! See your Yahoo! Homepage.
> http://in.yahoo.com/
>




From dbhattacharya2004 at YAHOO.CO.IN  Mon Mar 22 06:38:39 2010
From: dbhattacharya2004 at YAHOO.CO.IN (Dipak Bhattacharya)
Date: Mon, 22 Mar 10 12:08:39 +0530
Subject: Anyone heard of a flower called "aniccam?"
In-Reply-To: <eb9fe2f81003212310k41fde78cs8a42d635ab630dd0@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <161227088956.23782.17572272963553480401.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Is it still common? The lajjaavatii or laajawantii was very common along rail tracks even in the seventies. But since its arrival, allegedly from Canada in 1973, the parthenium?has spread like wild fire along the ancient EIR route and the parallel Grand Trunk Road destroying the common lajjaavatii. 
Best 
DB

--- On Mon, 22/3/10, venetia ansell <venetia.ansell at GMAIL.COM> wrote:


From: venetia ansell <venetia.ansell at GMAIL.COM>
Subject: Re: Anyone heard of a flower called "aniccam?"
To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk
Date: Monday, 22 March, 2010, 11:40 AM


Mimosa pudica is certainly very common in Karnataka - it's called chhui mui
in Hindi, mutthidaremuni in Kannada I think, and lajjaa (as in bashfulness)
in Sanskrit.

On Mon, Mar 22, 2010 at 10:07 AM, Dipak Bhattacharya <
dbhattacharya2004 at yahoo.co.in> wrote:

> Mimosa pudica is Thottalvadi in Tamil not aniccam.
> Best
> DB
>
> --- On Mon, 22/3/10, Dominic Goodall <dominic.goodall at GMAIL.COM> wrote:
>
>
> From: Dominic Goodall <dominic.goodall at GMAIL.COM>
> Subject: Re: Anyone heard of a flower called "aniccam?"
> To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk
> Date: Monday, 22 March, 2010, 9:01 AM
>
>
> This reminds me that in the hills in the South today one finds plenty of
> Mimosa pudica, whose leaves temporarily fold up the second that you touch
> them, or indeed blow on them.
>
> But I am not sure how long these plants have been growing there, for the
> Pandanus website (http://iu.ff.cuni.cz/pandanus/database/),
> quoting Dymock, Warden, Hooper: Pharmacographia Indica, vol. I, pp.
> 538-539, calls Mimosa pudica a "native of Brazil long naturalized in India".
>
> Dominic Goodall
>
> On 21 Mar 2010, at 21:39, Michael Witzel wrote:
>
> > The whole discussion (here and in Tamil) reminded me of the little
> yellow? flower,? called 'noli me tangere' "don't touch me!" in Latin.
> >
> > For some details see: <http://www.aboutflowers.org/giantbalsamim_xal.htm>
> (also in N. India)
> >
> > (Leaves of certain trees also do that: they fold on touch).
> >
> > Cheers,
> > MW
> >
> >
> > On Mar 21, 2010, at 11:54 AM, rajam wrote:
> >
> >> Dear Whitney,
> >>
> >> The poems don't indicate that the flower perishes, though. The emphasis
> is on its delicateness, softness, and gentleness. So I wonder whether the
> flower's "reflex" action ("to wilt" when someone smells it) fascinated the
> poet. Maybe one could find a similar flower somewhere -- I hope!
> >>
> >> Thanks and regards,
> >> VSR
> >>
> >> On Mar 21, 2010, at 1:18 AM, Whitney Cox wrote:
> >>
> >>> Dear Rajam,
> >>>
> >>> In line with your observation that the flower is supposedly "super
> >>> sensitive", it seems possible to me that the derivation of the name
> >>> might be from a-nitya ("impermanent," "perishable"), rather than
> >>> an+icch? (I see that the MTL, p. 191 thinks the same thing).? However,
> >>> I don't know of any flower called anitya in Sanskrit.
> >>>
> >>> Best regards,
> >>>
> >>> Whitney
> >>>
> >>> On 21 March 2010 06:00, rajam <rajam at earthlink.net> wrote:
> >>>> Has anyone on this list come across a plant/flower type named
> "aniccha" in
> >>>> any non-Tamil literature?
> >>>> Has anyone seen it (in person or in a picture)?
> >>>>
> >>>> "Aniccam" is listed just as a flower in early Tamil poetry. Later on,
> the
> >>>> focus is on the flower's super sensitivity--about how it would wilt at
> the
> >>>> contact of human breath, how it would harm a woman [with a slender
> waist] if
> >>>> she wears the flower without removing its stem, ... and so on.
> >>>>
> >>>> There is a thought that the term "anicca" is derived thus: a + iccha
> (a +
> >>>> icchaa - Without Desire/Wish).
> >>>>
> >>>> What is your thought? Are there similar flowers extolled in non-Tamil
> poetry
> >>>> for such super sensitivity?
> >>>>
> >>>> Thanks and regards,
> >>>> V.S. Rajam
> >>>> < (www.letsgrammar.org)>
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> --
> >>>
> >>> Dr. Whitney Cox
> >>> Department of the Languages and Cultures of South Asia,
> >>> School of Oriental and African Studies
> >>> Thornhaugh Street, Russell Square
> >>> London WC1H 0XG
> >
> > ============
> > Michael Witzel
> > witzel at fas.harvard.edu
> > <www.fas.harvard.edu/~witzel/mwpage.htm>
> >
> > Dept. of Sanskrit & Indian Studies, Harvard University
> > 1 Bow Street,
> > Cambridge MA 02138, USA
> >
> > phone: 1- 617 - 495 3295, 496 8570, fax 617 - 496 8571;
> > my direct line:? 617- 496 2990
>
>
>
>? ? ? The INTERNET now has a personality. YOURS! See your Yahoo! Homepage.
> http://in.yahoo.com/
>



      Your Mail works best with the New Yahoo Optimized IE8. Get it NOW! http://downloads.yahoo.com/in/internetexplorer/




From gruenen at SUB.UNI-GOETTINGEN.DE  Mon Mar 22 16:32:14 2010
From: gruenen at SUB.UNI-GOETTINGEN.DE (Gruenendahl, Reinhold)
Date: Mon, 22 Mar 10 17:32:14 +0100
Subject: GRETIL update #367
Message-ID: <161227088966.23782.11178060603061077595.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

GRETIL is pleased to be able to report the following addition(s) to its
collection:

 

Dhvajagrahakeyura-Dharani
<http://www.sub.uni-goettingen.de/ebene_1/fiindolo/gretil.htm#DhvajkeDh> 


Khasarpanasadhana
<http://www.sub.uni-goettingen.de/ebene_1/fiindolo/gretil.htm#Khasarp> 


Mahamanivipulavimanavisvasupratisthitaguhyaparamarahasyakalparaja-Dharani
<http://www.sub.uni-goettingen.de/ebene_1/fiindolo/gretil.htm#MManivipulDh> 


Mahapratisara Pancaraksa
<http://www.sub.uni-goettingen.de/ebene_1/fiindolo/gretil.htm#MPratisaraP> 


Mekhala-Dharani
<http://www.sub.uni-goettingen.de/ebene_1/fiindolo/gretil.htm#MekhalaDh> 


Vasudhara-Dharani [version 1]
<http://www.sub.uni-goettingen.de/ebene_1/fiindolo/gretil.htm#VasudhaDh_v1> 


Vasudhara-Dharani [version 2]
<http://www.sub.uni-goettingen.de/ebene_1/fiindolo/gretil.htm#VasudhaDh_v2> 


Vasudhara-Dharani [version 3]
<http://www.sub.uni-goettingen.de/ebene_1/fiindolo/gretil.htm#VasudhaDh_v3> 

 

__________________________________________________________________________ 

"GRETIL is intended as a cumulative register of the numerous download sites
for electronic texts in Indian languages." (from the 2001 "mission
statement") 

GRETIL - Goettingen Register of Electronic Texts in Indian Languages: 

http://www.sub.uni-goettingen.de/ebene_1/fiindolo/gretil.htm




From peterfriedlander at YAHOO.COM.AU  Tue Mar 23 01:38:16 2010
From: peterfriedlander at YAHOO.COM.AU (Peter Friedlander)
Date: Mon, 22 Mar 10 18:38:16 -0700
Subject: Moksa/Nirvana
In-Reply-To: <INDOLOGY%201003230000017047.3970@LISTSERV.LIV.AC.UK>
Message-ID: <161227088968.23782.16796692240831136621.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Dear Colleagues,
another perspective on this debate relates to Hindi usage.
Nirvana (often in the form nirban) continues to be used in Hindi to the present day in the verses of Nirgun Sant poets such as Kabir, Raidas, and Dharamdas. 
In such verses the term moksa occurs in compounds such as 'liberated while living' (jivanmukta) and attaining liberation is often spoken as reaching the 'the state of nirvana' (pad nirban). I have just been translating verses by Dharmdas, a follower of Kabir, in which Nirvana was envisaged as a perfect land full of pearl palaces and fountains of nectar etc.
regards
Peter

---------------------------

Peter Friedlander

21 Hindhede Dr #04-04

Singapore, 589318

Handphone: (65) 90624357



      




From mkapstei at UCHICAGO.EDU  Tue Mar 23 08:18:53 2010
From: mkapstei at UCHICAGO.EDU (mkapstei at UCHICAGO.EDU)
Date: Tue, 23 Mar 10 03:18:53 -0500
Subject: Moksa/Nirvana
In-Reply-To: <145431.89508.qm@web65706.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <161227088970.23782.6501979160455826443.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

it is perhaps worthwhile to stress in this connection that the authors Prof. 
Friedlander cites followed on the heels of the Buddhist dohas and 
caryapadas, in which the insistence on the nondifferenciation of samsara 
and nirvana no doubt contributed to the thematization of nirvana as 
equivalent to jivanmukta. The Buddhist dohas were of course in their turn 
drawing on well known Madhyamaka doctrine, but perhaps with a more 
experiential accent than one finds in the philosophical literature. 

---- Original message ----
>Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2010 18:38:16 -0700
>From: Peter Friedlander <peterfriedlander at YAHOO.COM.AU>  
>Subject: Moksa/Nirvana  
>To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk
>
>Dear Colleagues,
>another perspective on this debate relates to Hindi usage.
>Nirvana (often in the form nirban) continues to be used in Hindi to the 
present day in the verses of Nirgun Sant poets such as Kabir, Raidas, and 
Dharamdas. 
>In such verses the term moksa occurs in compounds such as 'liberated 
while living' (jivanmukta) and attaining liberation is often spoken as reaching 
the 'the state of nirvana' (pad nirban). I have just been translating verses by 
Dharmdas, a follower of Kabir, in which Nirvana was envisaged as a perfect 
land full of pearl palaces and fountains of nectar etc.
>regards
>Peter
>
>---------------------------
>
>Peter Friedlander
>
>21 Hindhede Dr #04-04
>
>Singapore, 589318
>
>Handphone: (65) 90624357
>
>
>
>      
Matthew T. Kapstein
Numata Visiting Professor of Buddhist Studies
The University of Chicago Divinity School

Directeur d'?tudes
Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes, Paris




From glhart at BERKELEY.EDU  Tue Mar 23 15:20:22 2010
From: glhart at BERKELEY.EDU (George Hart)
Date: Tue, 23 Mar 10 08:20:22 -0700
Subject: Anyone heard of a flower called "aniccam?"
In-Reply-To: <588386.65253.qm@web8603.mail.in.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <161227088975.23782.17336614200799879825.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Apparently another name of the a?iccam is aruppalam, which looks as if it could be have a Prakrit or Sanskrit origin (arpala, rupala?) but I can't find anything in those languages.  G. Hart

On Mar 21, 2010, at 11:38 PM, Dipak Bhattacharya wrote:

> Is it still common? The lajjaavatii or laajawantii was very common along rail tracks even in the seventies. But since its arrival, allegedly from Canada in 1973, the parthenium has spread like wild fire along the ancient EIR route and the parallel Grand Trunk Road destroying the common lajjaavatii. 
> Best 
> DB
> 
> --- On Mon, 22/3/10, venetia ansell <venetia.ansell at GMAIL.COM> wrote:
> 
> 
> From: venetia ansell <venetia.ansell at GMAIL.COM>
> Subject: Re: Anyone heard of a flower called "aniccam?"
> To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk
> Date: Monday, 22 March, 2010, 11:40 AM
> 
> 
> Mimosa pudica is certainly very common in Karnataka - it's called chhui mui
> in Hindi, mutthidaremuni in Kannada I think, and lajjaa (as in bashfulness)
> in Sanskrit.
> 
> On Mon, Mar 22, 2010 at 10:07 AM, Dipak Bhattacharya <
> dbhattacharya2004 at yahoo.co.in> wrote:
> 
>> Mimosa pudica is Thottalvadi in Tamil not aniccam.
>> Best
>> DB
>> 
>> --- On Mon, 22/3/10, Dominic Goodall <dominic.goodall at GMAIL.COM> wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> From: Dominic Goodall <dominic.goodall at GMAIL.COM>
>> Subject: Re: Anyone heard of a flower called "aniccam?"
>> To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk
>> Date: Monday, 22 March, 2010, 9:01 AM
>> 
>> 
>> This reminds me that in the hills in the South today one finds plenty of
>> Mimosa pudica, whose leaves temporarily fold up the second that you touch
>> them, or indeed blow on them.
>> 
>> But I am not sure how long these plants have been growing there, for the
>> Pandanus website (http://iu.ff.cuni.cz/pandanus/database/),
>> quoting Dymock, Warden, Hooper: Pharmacographia Indica, vol. I, pp.
>> 538-539, calls Mimosa pudica a "native of Brazil long naturalized in India".
>> 
>> Dominic Goodall
>> 
>> On 21 Mar 2010, at 21:39, Michael Witzel wrote:
>> 
>>> The whole discussion (here and in Tamil) reminded me of the little
>> yellow  flower,  called 'noli me tangere' "don't touch me!" in Latin.
>>> 
>>> For some details see: <http://www.aboutflowers.org/giantbalsamim_xal.htm>
>> (also in N. India)
>>> 
>>> (Leaves of certain trees also do that: they fold on touch).
>>> 
>>> Cheers,
>>> MW
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On Mar 21, 2010, at 11:54 AM, rajam wrote:
>>> 
>>>> Dear Whitney,
>>>> 
>>>> The poems don't indicate that the flower perishes, though. The emphasis
>> is on its delicateness, softness, and gentleness. So I wonder whether the
>> flower's "reflex" action ("to wilt" when someone smells it) fascinated the
>> poet. Maybe one could find a similar flower somewhere -- I hope!
>>>> 
>>>> Thanks and regards,
>>>> VSR
>>>> 
>>>> On Mar 21, 2010, at 1:18 AM, Whitney Cox wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> Dear Rajam,
>>>>> 
>>>>> In line with your observation that the flower is supposedly "super
>>>>> sensitive", it seems possible to me that the derivation of the name
>>>>> might be from a-nitya ("impermanent," "perishable"), rather than
>>>>> an+icch? (I see that the MTL, p. 191 thinks the same thing).  However,
>>>>> I don't know of any flower called anitya in Sanskrit.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Best regards,
>>>>> 
>>>>> Whitney
>>>>> 
>>>>> On 21 March 2010 06:00, rajam <rajam at earthlink.net> wrote:
>>>>>> Has anyone on this list come across a plant/flower type named
>> "aniccha" in
>>>>>> any non-Tamil literature?
>>>>>> Has anyone seen it (in person or in a picture)?
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> "Aniccam" is listed just as a flower in early Tamil poetry. Later on,
>> the
>>>>>> focus is on the flower's super sensitivity--about how it would wilt at
>> the
>>>>>> contact of human breath, how it would harm a woman [with a slender
>> waist] if
>>>>>> she wears the flower without removing its stem, ... and so on.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> There is a thought that the term "anicca" is derived thus: a + iccha
>> (a +
>>>>>> icchaa - Without Desire/Wish).
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> What is your thought? Are there similar flowers extolled in non-Tamil
>> poetry
>>>>>> for such super sensitivity?
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Thanks and regards,
>>>>>> V.S. Rajam
>>>>>> < (www.letsgrammar.org)>
>>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> --
>>>>> 
>>>>> Dr. Whitney Cox
>>>>> Department of the Languages and Cultures of South Asia,
>>>>> School of Oriental and African Studies
>>>>> Thornhaugh Street, Russell Square
>>>>> London WC1H 0XG
>>> 
>>> ============
>>> Michael Witzel
>>> witzel at fas.harvard.edu
>>> <www.fas.harvard.edu/~witzel/mwpage.htm>
>>> 
>>> Dept. of Sanskrit & Indian Studies, Harvard University
>>> 1 Bow Street,
>>> Cambridge MA 02138, USA
>>> 
>>> phone: 1- 617 - 495 3295, 496 8570, fax 617 - 496 8571;
>>> my direct line:  617- 496 2990
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>       The INTERNET now has a personality. YOURS! See your Yahoo! Homepage.
>> http://in.yahoo.com/
>> 
> 
> 
> 
>      Your Mail works best with the New Yahoo Optimized IE8. Get it NOW! http://downloads.yahoo.com/in/internetexplorer/




From acollins at GCI.NET  Tue Mar 23 17:44:47 2010
From: acollins at GCI.NET (Alfred Collins)
Date: Tue, 23 Mar 10 09:44:47 -0800
Subject: Moksa/Nirvana
In-Reply-To: <1A97D3D73A03FC419D87967D3CE4760C0A8CBE51@MAIL1.AD.Brown.Edu>
Message-ID: <161227088980.23782.11142941080709158652.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Dear Prof. Fitzgerald,

If beatitude and release are originally from different semantic fields, perhaps we could see many developments in post 100 BCE "Hinduism" as efforts to put them together. For example, the unity of the two goals of life (puruSArthas) in Samkhya-Yoga, bhuj- and muc-. And surely tantra combines the two thoroughly. 

Release, however, I would argue has a long Brahmanical history, in the old Vedic theme of opening the closed world, slaying the vRtra serpent, breaking open the cow stall, and the mountain, propping apart heaven and earth, etc. Gonda's old study on aMhas as "constriction" and the need to overcome it in the process of cosmogenesis/sacrifice seems relevant (I realize his argument is not completely accepted).

Finally, I have tried to see old Vedic cosmogonies (models for sacrifice) as falling into two sorts, which broadly parallel the release and absorption models. One is the opening/release scenario I just sketched, which tends to be associated with Varuna and Indra, the other is a flow model associated with Agni and Soma, in which substance--light, fire, rain,etc.-- flows from highest heaven to earth via the cow, poetic speech, etc.  The two models come together sometimes, as in the puruSasUkta where release (sacrifice) of the cosmic Man is half (or more accurately one-fourth) of the story and three-fourths remains amRta in heaven.  I discussed this in my dissertation in 1976, The Origin of the Brahman King Relationship in Indian Social Thought, University of Texas (with Polome and Lehman).

Al Collins




From James_Fitzgerald at BROWN.EDU  Tue Mar 23 13:46:23 2010
From: James_Fitzgerald at BROWN.EDU (Fitzgerald, James)
Date: Tue, 23 Mar 10 09:46:23 -0400
Subject: Moksa/Nirvana
In-Reply-To: <173861269241284@webmail104.yandex.ru>
Message-ID: <161227088972.23782.6655952670920447979.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Dear colleagues,

I would toss a couple of considerations into the general discussion of this topic, #2 being the most germane:

1) I prefer the word (final, or absolute) "beatitude", as a general Western term for discussing the ultimate goal of the various Indic traditions that seek to realize some absolutely good state beyond life in this world (iha, samsara). It is not a perfect word by any means, but it seems to me to import less undesirable semantic freight than "soteriology" and its kin.

2) On the Brahminic side, the oldest and most fundamental conceptualization and metaphors of ultimate beatitude involved the absorption of the person into some concept of a highest being or ultimate reality, a sampad in brahman, amRtabhAva, and the like. The language of escape, mokSa, comes later and is, I suspect, originally exogenous, to the Brahminic tradition. MokSa, of course, is a negative conceptualization, consistent with ethics that start with the presumed facts of karmabandhana, duHkha, samsara, and their attendant themes. The language of completion and fulfillment, sampad, amRtatva, does not depart from those presuppositions and works just fine without them. Of course at some point in time (about 350 BCE +/- 100 years) these two conceptual and rhetorical complexes begin to merge in brahminic discourse, though the merger is often rough and is, I think, not complete and thorough until about 100 CE or so. Eventually brahmabhAva and mokSa became, often, flip sides of the same coin in general descriptions of, or ethical exhortations to pursue, absolute beatitude, however that beatitude may have been conceived by any given writer, which is how they are often taught in undergraduate courses.

3) Words have, I think, more volatility and variability of practical usage than we often credit them with having. While some philosophers in some circumstances use words with great precision and consistency--creating technical vocabularies that persist in their own works and traditions--(and too, they often fail to be as precise and consistent as we would like), most forms of verbal discourse are always more variable than that, words proving more malleable, bending to different pragmatic uses in different contexts. Words definitely have some kind of '(slowly changing) semantic center' (which may be sharp and clear or vague and fuzzy) established by a history of usage (some very small part of which is knowable by us), but no matter how sharp and clear and relatively stable that semantic center may be, the applications of a word in a given context must be 'figured out' in each actual sentence of each given context.

I make these last observations specifically in reference to words such as brahman, nirvANa, dharma, guNa, karman, mokSa, jJAna, etc. Early Buddhist uses of brahman and dharma are obviously quite different from contemporaneous Brahminic uses of the words, while at the same time being applications from a shared history of usage of those terms based on common knowledge of their basic semantic charges. The same applies to brahminic uses of nirvANa. While I think it is cerainly the case than when the term nirvAna is used in (pre Gupta) Brahminic texts there is awareness that it is a "nAstika" (they don't typically say "bauddha") term of ultimate importance, I think we need to establish carefully how the word is being used in the specific context, without assuming that highly detailed or specific Buddhist themes are carried with it.

With all best wishes, Jim Fitzgerald

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Indology [mailto:INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk] On Behalf Of 
> Viktoria Lyssenko
> Sent: Monday, March 22, 2010 3:01 AM
> To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk
> Subject: Re: Moksa/Nirvana
> 
> Dear Mary,
> In my opinion, the meanings of the both largerly overlap in 
> signifying the release from samsara, and in no way the belief 
> in soul/no soul does determine the difference between them as 
> the word nirvana was used not only in Buddhism but in other 
> traditions, like Jainism and Ajivika, especially during the 
> sramana period. The term moksha may seem  more litteral 
> (moksha from the root muc - to let loose) while nirvana more 
> metaphorical (nirvana means "blowing out [the fire of 
> passions]"), but, in the final analysis, both are 
> metaphorical as their sense is quite different from that in 
> the ordinary usus (vyavahara). Still there is a difference in 
> nuances: nirvana puts to the fore the state of overcoming the 
> affects (klesha, nivarana, avarana) and the tranquil state of 
> mind which is rather associated with the absence of suffering 
> then with the state of bliss (ananda), while moksha 
> underlines the release from the burden of samsara as such 
> which does not determine the character of this state - it may 
> be either bliss (ananda) as in the majority of schools or 
> absence of sufferings as in Vaisheshika .
> Victoria Lysenko
> Russian Academy of sciences
> 
> 22.03.10, 10:58, "Mary Storm" <mnstorm at MAC.COM>:
> 
> > Dear Indologists,
> >  
> >  I wonder if someone could clarify for me the nuances between the  
> > meaning of moksa and nirvana? Do both imply release from 
> samsara?  It  
> > seems as if a belief in soul/no soul has to determine the 
> meaning and  
> > I know the meanings change over the centuries.... but some quick  
> > insights would be very welcome.
> >  
> >  Apologies for such a broad question.
> >  
> >  Thanks so much for your thoughts!
> >  
> >  Mary
> >  
> >  Mary N. Storm, Ph.D.
> >  Academic Director and Lecturer
> >  India: National Identity and the Arts  and  Himalayan Buddhist Art 
> > and Architecture  SIT Study Abroad  www.sit.edu
> >  
> >  F 301 Lado Sarai
> >  New Delhi 110030
> >  
> >  Mobile +91 98106 98003
> >  Office Landline  +91 11 2437 8003
> >  Residence Landline +91 11295 53298
> >  
> >  
> 
> --
> ????? ????? ??? http://mail.yandex.ru/nospam/sign
> 




From glhart at BERKELEY.EDU  Tue Mar 23 18:02:21 2010
From: glhart at BERKELEY.EDU (George Hart)
Date: Tue, 23 Mar 10 11:02:21 -0700
Subject: Anyone heard of a flower called "aniccam?"
In-Reply-To: <999763.79641.qm@web8606.mail.in.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <161227088982.23782.16345600914025319393.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Aruppalam might be from aruphala.  Aru, according to Apte, is "rakta khadira," but unfortunately he doesn't define it.  Kittel says it is a plant and says it is "me?asige," but that is not defined either.  Khadira by itself is acacia catechu, and rakta khadira might be an acacia tree with red flowers.  Acacia arabica (which is native to India)?  (see http://www.exogarden.nl/palmzaden/images/acacia-arabica.jpg).  The leaves of this are small, gentle and fernlike and could possibly be said to retreat when touched.  In any case, this is all speculation -- it points up how difficult it can be to identify botanical names in old Indian texts.  

For a list (with pictures and recitation) of the flowers in the Ku?i?cipp???u (63-95), see

http://karkanirka.wordpress.com/2010/03/15/99tamilflowers_slideshow/

This is a wonderful website and gives some very useful information.  Unfortunately, it does not give names in Sanskrit and other Indian languages, but it does give Latin names and so can be used if you know the botanical name of a flower.  George Hart
 
On Mar 23, 2010, at 8:54 AM, Dipak Bhattacharya wrote:

> aru?p?nam is a healing herbal in the Atharvaveda, probably a mountain plant likely to be growing in the Lesser Himalayas. But the Orissa manuscripts read arusy?nam. 
> 
> 
> --- On Tue, 23/3/10, George Hart <glhart at BERKELEY.EDU> wrote:
> 
> 
> From: George Hart <glhart at BERKELEY.EDU>
> Subject: Re: Anyone heard of a flower called "aniccam?"
> To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk
> Date: Tuesday, 23 March, 2010, 8:50 PM
> 
> 
> Apparently another name of the a?iccam is aruppalam, which looks as if it could be have a Prakrit or Sanskrit origin (arpala, rupala?) but I can't find anything in those languages.  G. Hart
> 
> On Mar 21, 2010, at 11:38 PM, Dipak Bhattacharya wrote:
> 
>> Is it still common? The lajjaavatii or laajawantii was very common along rail tracks even in the seventies. But since its arrival, allegedly from Canada in 1973, the parthenium has spread like wild fire along the ancient EIR route and the parallel Grand Trunk Road destroying the common lajjaavatii. 
>> Best 
>> DB
>> 
>> --- On Mon, 22/3/10, venetia ansell <venetia.ansell at GMAIL.COM> wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> From: venetia ansell <venetia.ansell at GMAIL.COM>
>> Subject: Re: Anyone heard of a flower called "aniccam?"
>> To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk
>> Date: Monday, 22 March, 2010, 11:40 AM
>> 
>> 
>> Mimosa pudica is certainly very common in Karnataka - it's called chhui mui
>> in Hindi, mutthidaremuni in Kannada I think, and lajjaa (as in bashfulness)
>> in Sanskrit.
>> 
>> On Mon, Mar 22, 2010 at 10:07 AM, Dipak Bhattacharya <
>> dbhattacharya2004 at yahoo.co.in> wrote:
>> 
>>> Mimosa pudica is Thottalvadi in Tamil not aniccam.
>>> Best
>>> DB
>>> 
>>> --- On Mon, 22/3/10, Dominic Goodall <dominic.goodall at GMAIL.COM> wrote:
>>> 
>>> 
>>> From: Dominic Goodall <dominic.goodall at GMAIL.COM>
>>> Subject: Re: Anyone heard of a flower called "aniccam?"
>>> To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk
>>> Date: Monday, 22 March, 2010, 9:01 AM
>>> 
>>> 
>>> This reminds me that in the hills in the South today one finds plenty of
>>> Mimosa pudica, whose leaves temporarily fold up the second that you touch
>>> them, or indeed blow on them.
>>> 
>>> But I am not sure how long these plants have been growing there, for the
>>> Pandanus website (http://iu.ff.cuni.cz/pandanus/database/),
>>> quoting Dymock, Warden, Hooper: Pharmacographia Indica, vol. I, pp.
>>> 538-539, calls Mimosa pudica a "native of Brazil long naturalized in India".
>>> 
>>> Dominic Goodall
>>> 
>>> On 21 Mar 2010, at 21:39, Michael Witzel wrote:
>>> 
>>>> The whole discussion (here and in Tamil) reminded me of the little
>>> yellow  flower,  called 'noli me tangere' "don't touch me!" in Latin.
>>>> 
>>>> For some details see: <http://www.aboutflowers.org/giantbalsamim_xal.htm>
>>> (also in N. India)
>>>> 
>>>> (Leaves of certain trees also do that: they fold on touch).
>>>> 
>>>> Cheers,
>>>> MW
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> On Mar 21, 2010, at 11:54 AM, rajam wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> Dear Whitney,
>>>>> 
>>>>> The poems don't indicate that the flower perishes, though. The emphasis
>>> is on its delicateness, softness, and gentleness. So I wonder whether the
>>> flower's "reflex" action ("to wilt" when someone smells it) fascinated the
>>> poet. Maybe one could find a similar flower somewhere -- I hope!
>>>>> 
>>>>> Thanks and regards,
>>>>> VSR
>>>>> 
>>>>> On Mar 21, 2010, at 1:18 AM, Whitney Cox wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>>> Dear Rajam,
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> In line with your observation that the flower is supposedly "super
>>>>>> sensitive", it seems possible to me that the derivation of the name
>>>>>> might be from a-nitya ("impermanent," "perishable"), rather than
>>>>>> an+icch? (I see that the MTL, p. 191 thinks the same thing).  However,
>>>>>> I don't know of any flower called anitya in Sanskrit.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Best regards,
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Whitney
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> On 21 March 2010 06:00, rajam <rajam at earthlink.net> wrote:
>>>>>>> Has anyone on this list come across a plant/flower type named
>>> "aniccha" in
>>>>>>> any non-Tamil literature?
>>>>>>> Has anyone seen it (in person or in a picture)?
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> "Aniccam" is listed just as a flower in early Tamil poetry. Later on,
>>> the
>>>>>>> focus is on the flower's super sensitivity--about how it would wilt at
>>> the
>>>>>>> contact of human breath, how it would harm a woman [with a slender
>>> waist] if
>>>>>>> she wears the flower without removing its stem, ... and so on.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> There is a thought that the term "anicca" is derived thus: a + iccha
>>> (a +
>>>>>>> icchaa - Without Desire/Wish).
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> What is your thought? Are there similar flowers extolled in non-Tamil
>>> poetry
>>>>>>> for such super sensitivity?
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Thanks and regards,
>>>>>>> V.S. Rajam
>>>>>>> < (www.letsgrammar.org)>
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Dr. Whitney Cox
>>>>>> Department of the Languages and Cultures of South Asia,
>>>>>> School of Oriental and African Studies
>>>>>> Thornhaugh Street, Russell Square
>>>>>> London WC1H 0XG
>>>> 
>>>> ============
>>>> Michael Witzel
>>>> witzel at fas.harvard.edu
>>>> <www.fas.harvard.edu/~witzel/mwpage.htm>
>>>> 
>>>> Dept. of Sanskrit & Indian Studies, Harvard University
>>>> 1 Bow Street,
>>>> Cambridge MA 02138, USA
>>>> 
>>>> phone: 1- 617 - 495 3295, 496 8570, fax 617 - 496 8571;
>>>> my direct line:  617- 496 2990
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>>        The INTERNET now has a personality. YOURS! See your Yahoo! Homepage.
>>> http://in.yahoo.com/
>>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>       Your Mail works best with the New Yahoo Optimized IE8. Get it NOW! http://downloads.yahoo.com/in/internetexplorer/
> 
> 
> 
>      Your Mail works best with the New Yahoo Optimized IE8. Get it NOW! http://downloads.yahoo.com/in/internetexplorer/




From glhart at BERKELEY.EDU  Tue Mar 23 18:20:56 2010
From: glhart at BERKELEY.EDU (George Hart)
Date: Tue, 23 Mar 10 11:20:56 -0700
Subject: Anyone heard of a flower called "aniccam?"
In-Reply-To: <E6BC277F-FC49-428E-9827-DF971D921B09@berkeley.edu>
Message-ID: <161227088985.23782.10449372337665058196.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

(Sorry for so many posts -- this is my last one.)

http://siddhadreams.blogspot.com/2005/12/this-is-plant-anicham-mentioned-in.html

G. Hart

On Mar 23, 2010, at 11:02 AM, George Hart wrote:

> Aruppalam might be from aruphala.  Aru, according to Apte, is "rakta khadira," but unfortunately he doesn't define it.  Kittel says it is a plant and says it is "me?asige," but that is not defined either.  Khadira by itself is acacia catechu, and rakta khadira might be an acacia tree with red flowers.  Acacia arabica (which is native to India)?  (see http://www.exogarden.nl/palmzaden/images/acacia-arabica.jpg).  The leaves of this are small, gentle and fernlike and could possibly be said to retreat when touched.  In any case, this is all speculation -- it points up how difficult it can be to identify botanical names in old Indian texts.  
> 
> For a list (with pictures and recitation) of the flowers in the Ku?i?cipp???u (63-95), see
> 
> http://karkanirka.wordpress.com/2010/03/15/99tamilflowers_slideshow/
> 
> This is a wonderful website and gives some very useful information.  Unfortunately, it does not give names in Sanskrit and other Indian languages, but it does give Latin names and so can be used if you know the botanical name of a flower.  George Hart
> 
> On Mar 23, 2010, at 8:54 AM, Dipak Bhattacharya wrote:
> 
>> aru?p?nam is a healing herbal in the Atharvaveda, probably a mountain plant likely to be growing in the Lesser Himalayas. But the Orissa manuscripts read arusy?nam. 
>> 
>> 
>> --- On Tue, 23/3/10, George Hart <glhart at BERKELEY.EDU> wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> From: George Hart <glhart at BERKELEY.EDU>
>> Subject: Re: Anyone heard of a flower called "aniccam?"
>> To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk
>> Date: Tuesday, 23 March, 2010, 8:50 PM
>> 
>> 
>> Apparently another name of the a?iccam is aruppalam, which looks as if it could be have a Prakrit or Sanskrit origin (arpala, rupala?) but I can't find anything in those languages.  G. Hart
>> 
>> On Mar 21, 2010, at 11:38 PM, Dipak Bhattacharya wrote:
>> 
>>> Is it still common? The lajjaavatii or laajawantii was very common along rail tracks even in the seventies. But since its arrival, allegedly from Canada in 1973, the parthenium has spread like wild fire along the ancient EIR route and the parallel Grand Trunk Road destroying the common lajjaavatii. 
>>> Best 
>>> DB
>>> 
>>> --- On Mon, 22/3/10, venetia ansell <venetia.ansell at GMAIL.COM> wrote:
>>> 
>>> 
>>> From: venetia ansell <venetia.ansell at GMAIL.COM>
>>> Subject: Re: Anyone heard of a flower called "aniccam?"
>>> To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk
>>> Date: Monday, 22 March, 2010, 11:40 AM
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Mimosa pudica is certainly very common in Karnataka - it's called chhui mui
>>> in Hindi, mutthidaremuni in Kannada I think, and lajjaa (as in bashfulness)
>>> in Sanskrit.
>>> 
>>> On Mon, Mar 22, 2010 at 10:07 AM, Dipak Bhattacharya <
>>> dbhattacharya2004 at yahoo.co.in> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> Mimosa pudica is Thottalvadi in Tamil not aniccam.
>>>> Best
>>>> DB
>>>> 
>>>> --- On Mon, 22/3/10, Dominic Goodall <dominic.goodall at GMAIL.COM> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> From: Dominic Goodall <dominic.goodall at GMAIL.COM>
>>>> Subject: Re: Anyone heard of a flower called "aniccam?"
>>>> To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk
>>>> Date: Monday, 22 March, 2010, 9:01 AM
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> This reminds me that in the hills in the South today one finds plenty of
>>>> Mimosa pudica, whose leaves temporarily fold up the second that you touch
>>>> them, or indeed blow on them.
>>>> 
>>>> But I am not sure how long these plants have been growing there, for the
>>>> Pandanus website (http://iu.ff.cuni.cz/pandanus/database/),
>>>> quoting Dymock, Warden, Hooper: Pharmacographia Indica, vol. I, pp.
>>>> 538-539, calls Mimosa pudica a "native of Brazil long naturalized in India".
>>>> 
>>>> Dominic Goodall
>>>> 
>>>> On 21 Mar 2010, at 21:39, Michael Witzel wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> The whole discussion (here and in Tamil) reminded me of the little
>>>> yellow  flower,  called 'noli me tangere' "don't touch me!" in Latin.
>>>>> 
>>>>> For some details see: <http://www.aboutflowers.org/giantbalsamim_xal.htm>
>>>> (also in N. India)
>>>>> 
>>>>> (Leaves of certain trees also do that: they fold on touch).
>>>>> 
>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>> MW
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> On Mar 21, 2010, at 11:54 AM, rajam wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>>> Dear Whitney,
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> The poems don't indicate that the flower perishes, though. The emphasis
>>>> is on its delicateness, softness, and gentleness. So I wonder whether the
>>>> flower's "reflex" action ("to wilt" when someone smells it) fascinated the
>>>> poet. Maybe one could find a similar flower somewhere -- I hope!
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Thanks and regards,
>>>>>> VSR
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> On Mar 21, 2010, at 1:18 AM, Whitney Cox wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Dear Rajam,
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> In line with your observation that the flower is supposedly "super
>>>>>>> sensitive", it seems possible to me that the derivation of the name
>>>>>>> might be from a-nitya ("impermanent," "perishable"), rather than
>>>>>>> an+icch? (I see that the MTL, p. 191 thinks the same thing).  However,
>>>>>>> I don't know of any flower called anitya in Sanskrit.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Best regards,
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Whitney
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On 21 March 2010 06:00, rajam <rajam at earthlink.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>> Has anyone on this list come across a plant/flower type named
>>>> "aniccha" in
>>>>>>>> any non-Tamil literature?
>>>>>>>> Has anyone seen it (in person or in a picture)?
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> "Aniccam" is listed just as a flower in early Tamil poetry. Later on,
>>>> the
>>>>>>>> focus is on the flower's super sensitivity--about how it would wilt at
>>>> the
>>>>>>>> contact of human breath, how it would harm a woman [with a slender
>>>> waist] if
>>>>>>>> she wears the flower without removing its stem, ... and so on.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> There is a thought that the term "anicca" is derived thus: a + iccha
>>>> (a +
>>>>>>>> icchaa - Without Desire/Wish).
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> What is your thought? Are there similar flowers extolled in non-Tamil
>>>> poetry
>>>>>>>> for such super sensitivity?
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Thanks and regards,
>>>>>>>> V.S. Rajam
>>>>>>>> < (www.letsgrammar.org)>
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Dr. Whitney Cox
>>>>>>> Department of the Languages and Cultures of South Asia,
>>>>>>> School of Oriental and African Studies
>>>>>>> Thornhaugh Street, Russell Square
>>>>>>> London WC1H 0XG
>>>>> 
>>>>> ============
>>>>> Michael Witzel
>>>>> witzel at fas.harvard.edu
>>>>> <www.fas.harvard.edu/~witzel/mwpage.htm>
>>>>> 
>>>>> Dept. of Sanskrit & Indian Studies, Harvard University
>>>>> 1 Bow Street,
>>>>> Cambridge MA 02138, USA
>>>>> 
>>>>> phone: 1- 617 - 495 3295, 496 8570, fax 617 - 496 8571;
>>>>> my direct line:  617- 496 2990
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>       The INTERNET now has a personality. YOURS! See your Yahoo! Homepage.
>>>> http://in.yahoo.com/
>>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>>      Your Mail works best with the New Yahoo Optimized IE8. Get it NOW! http://downloads.yahoo.com/in/internetexplorer/
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>     Your Mail works best with the New Yahoo Optimized IE8. Get it NOW! http://downloads.yahoo.com/in/internetexplorer/




From rajam at EARTHLINK.NET  Tue Mar 23 20:02:52 2010
From: rajam at EARTHLINK.NET (rajam)
Date: Tue, 23 Mar 10 13:02:52 -0700
Subject: flowers: interest in small or only in large?
In-Reply-To: <20100323T151411Z_AE4F00170000@loc.gov>
Message-ID: <161227088990.23782.834593413254417685.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Not being a "botanist" and not knowing the "technical aspects" of  
"herbaceous," I'd like to mention that in Tamil literature all kinds  
of plants/flowers, small or big, large trees, shrubs, and vines--that  
grow in the ground, fields, on the shore, in the water (dirty or  
clear), in arid land, mountain slope--are mentioned and admired for  
their beauty or for certain innate quality that helps the poet to  
convey specific ideas, I guess. And, none of the early poems is pre- 
occupied with any of the plant's medicinal quality.

Best,
V.S. Rajam


On Mar 23, 2010, at 12:14 PM, Allen W Thrasher wrote:

> Do people share my feeling that Indian literature is little  
> interested in the beauty of small herbaceous flowering plants, but  
> only in large trees, shrubs, and vines?  Any difference in this  
> between Sanskrit, Prakrit, and Tamil literatures?  Any changes  
> under Islamic or British influence?
>
> Medical interest is of course another thing.
>
> Allen
>
> Allen W. Thrasher, Ph.D.
> Senior Reference Librarian
> Team Coordinator
> South Asia Team, Asian Division
> Library of Congress, Jefferson Building 150
> 101 Independence Ave., S.E.
> Washington, DC 20540-4810
> tel. 202-707-3732; fax 202-707-1724; athr at loc.gov
> The opinions expressed do not necessarily reflect those of the  
> Library of Congress.




From rajam at EARTHLINK.NET  Tue Mar 23 20:27:12 2010
From: rajam at EARTHLINK.NET (rajam)
Date: Tue, 23 Mar 10 13:27:12 -0700
Subject: expectation (Re: Anyone heard of a flower called "aniccam?")
In-Reply-To: <E6BC277F-FC49-428E-9827-DF971D921B09@berkeley.edu>
Message-ID: <161227088993.23782.3977821455377477747.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

The work by the young engineer at http://karkanirka.wordpress.com/ 
2010/03/15/99tamilflowers_slideshow/
is excellent, informative, and educative. In fact, my initial query  
originated there.

  /Unfortunately, it does not give names in Sanskrit and other Indian  
languages,/

Just a naive / un-harmful question: But why do we have such  
expectation -- for "names in Sanskrit" to be available?


On Mar 23, 2010, at 11:02 AM, George Hart wrote:

> Aruppalam might be from aruphala.  Aru, according to Apte, is  
> "rakta khadira," but unfortunately he doesn't define it.  Kittel  
> says it is a plant and says it is "me?asige," but that is not  
> defined either.  Khadira by itself is acacia catechu, and rakta  
> khadira might be an acacia tree with red flowers.  Acacia arabica  
> (which is native to India)?  (see http://www.exogarden.nl/palmzaden/ 
> images/acacia-arabica.jpg).  The leaves of this are small, gentle  
> and fernlike and could possibly be said to retreat when touched.   
> In any case, this is all speculation -- it points up how difficult  
> it can be to identify botanical names in old Indian texts.
>
> For a list (with pictures and recitation) of the flowers in the  
> Ku?i?cipp???u (63-95), see
>
> http://karkanirka.wordpress.com/2010/03/15/99tamilflowers_slideshow/
>
> This is a wonderful website and gives some very useful  
> information.  Unfortunately, it does not give names in Sanskrit and  
> other Indian languages, but it does give Latin names and so can be  
> used if you know the botanical name of a flower.  George Hart
>
> On Mar 23, 2010, at 8:54 AM, Dipak Bhattacharya wrote:
>
>> aru?p?nam is a healing herbal in the Atharvaveda, probably a  
>> mountain plant likely to be growing in the Lesser Himalayas. But  
>> the Orissa manuscripts read arusy?nam.
>>
>>
>> --- On Tue, 23/3/10, George Hart <glhart at BERKELEY.EDU> wrote:
>>
>>
>> From: George Hart <glhart at BERKELEY.EDU>
>> Subject: Re: Anyone heard of a flower called "aniccam?"
>> To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk
>> Date: Tuesday, 23 March, 2010, 8:50 PM
>>
>>
>> Apparently another name of the a?iccam is aruppalam, which looks  
>> as if it could be have a Prakrit or Sanskrit origin (arpala,  
>> rupala?) but I can't find anything in those languages.  G. Hart
>>
>> On Mar 21, 2010, at 11:38 PM, Dipak Bhattacharya wrote:
>>
>>> Is it still common? The lajjaavatii or laajawantii was very  
>>> common along rail tracks even in the seventies. But since its  
>>> arrival, allegedly from Canada in 1973, the parthenium has spread  
>>> like wild fire along the ancient EIR route and the parallel Grand  
>>> Trunk Road destroying the common lajjaavatii.
>>> Best
>>> DB
>>>
>>> --- On Mon, 22/3/10, venetia ansell <venetia.ansell at GMAIL.COM>  
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> From: venetia ansell <venetia.ansell at GMAIL.COM>
>>> Subject: Re: Anyone heard of a flower called "aniccam?"
>>> To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk
>>> Date: Monday, 22 March, 2010, 11:40 AM
>>>
>>>
>>> Mimosa pudica is certainly very common in Karnataka - it's called  
>>> chhui mui
>>> in Hindi, mutthidaremuni in Kannada I think, and lajjaa (as in  
>>> bashfulness)
>>> in Sanskrit.
>>>
>>> On Mon, Mar 22, 2010 at 10:07 AM, Dipak Bhattacharya <
>>> dbhattacharya2004 at yahoo.co.in> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Mimosa pudica is Thottalvadi in Tamil not aniccam.
>>>> Best
>>>> DB
>>>>
>>>> --- On Mon, 22/3/10, Dominic Goodall <dominic.goodall at GMAIL.COM>  
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> From: Dominic Goodall <dominic.goodall at GMAIL.COM>
>>>> Subject: Re: Anyone heard of a flower called "aniccam?"
>>>> To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk
>>>> Date: Monday, 22 March, 2010, 9:01 AM
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> This reminds me that in the hills in the South today one finds  
>>>> plenty of
>>>> Mimosa pudica, whose leaves temporarily fold up the second that  
>>>> you touch
>>>> them, or indeed blow on them.
>>>>
>>>> But I am not sure how long these plants have been growing there,  
>>>> for the
>>>> Pandanus website (http://iu.ff.cuni.cz/pandanus/database/),
>>>> quoting Dymock, Warden, Hooper: Pharmacographia Indica, vol. I, pp.
>>>> 538-539, calls Mimosa pudica a "native of Brazil long  
>>>> naturalized in India".
>>>>
>>>> Dominic Goodall
>>>>
>>>> On 21 Mar 2010, at 21:39, Michael Witzel wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> The whole discussion (here and in Tamil) reminded me of the little
>>>> yellow  flower,  called 'noli me tangere' "don't touch me!" in  
>>>> Latin.
>>>>>
>>>>> For some details see: <http://www.aboutflowers.org/ 
>>>>> giantbalsamim_xal.htm>
>>>> (also in N. India)
>>>>>
>>>>> (Leaves of certain trees also do that: they fold on touch).
>>>>>
>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>> MW
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Mar 21, 2010, at 11:54 AM, rajam wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Dear Whitney,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The poems don't indicate that the flower perishes, though. The  
>>>>>> emphasis
>>>> is on its delicateness, softness, and gentleness. So I wonder  
>>>> whether the
>>>> flower's "reflex" action ("to wilt" when someone smells it)  
>>>> fascinated the
>>>> poet. Maybe one could find a similar flower somewhere -- I hope!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks and regards,
>>>>>> VSR
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Mar 21, 2010, at 1:18 AM, Whitney Cox wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Dear Rajam,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> In line with your observation that the flower is supposedly  
>>>>>>> "super
>>>>>>> sensitive", it seems possible to me that the derivation of  
>>>>>>> the name
>>>>>>> might be from a-nitya ("impermanent," "perishable"), rather than
>>>>>>> an+icch? (I see that the MTL, p. 191 thinks the same thing).   
>>>>>>> However,
>>>>>>> I don't know of any flower called anitya in Sanskrit.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Best regards,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Whitney
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 21 March 2010 06:00, rajam <rajam at earthlink.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>> Has anyone on this list come across a plant/flower type named
>>>> "aniccha" in
>>>>>>>> any non-Tamil literature?
>>>>>>>> Has anyone seen it (in person or in a picture)?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> "Aniccam" is listed just as a flower in early Tamil poetry.  
>>>>>>>> Later on,
>>>> the
>>>>>>>> focus is on the flower's super sensitivity--about how it  
>>>>>>>> would wilt at
>>>> the
>>>>>>>> contact of human breath, how it would harm a woman [with a  
>>>>>>>> slender
>>>> waist] if
>>>>>>>> she wears the flower without removing its stem, ... and so on.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> There is a thought that the term "anicca" is derived thus: a  
>>>>>>>> + iccha
>>>> (a +
>>>>>>>> icchaa - Without Desire/Wish).
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> What is your thought? Are there similar flowers extolled in  
>>>>>>>> non-Tamil
>>>> poetry
>>>>>>>> for such super sensitivity?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Thanks and regards,
>>>>>>>> V.S. Rajam
>>>>>>>> < (www.letsgrammar.org)>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Dr. Whitney Cox
>>>>>>> Department of the Languages and Cultures of South Asia,
>>>>>>> School of Oriental and African Studies
>>>>>>> Thornhaugh Street, Russell Square
>>>>>>> London WC1H 0XG
>>>>>
>>>>> ============
>>>>> Michael Witzel
>>>>> witzel at fas.harvard.edu
>>>>> <www.fas.harvard.edu/~witzel/mwpage.htm>
>>>>>
>>>>> Dept. of Sanskrit & Indian Studies, Harvard University
>>>>> 1 Bow Street,
>>>>> Cambridge MA 02138, USA
>>>>>
>>>>> phone: 1- 617 - 495 3295, 496 8570, fax 617 - 496 8571;
>>>>> my direct line:  617- 496 2990
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>        The INTERNET now has a personality. YOURS! See your  
>>>> Yahoo! Homepage.
>>>> http://in.yahoo.com/
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>       Your Mail works best with the New Yahoo Optimized IE8. Get  
>>> it NOW! http://downloads.yahoo.com/in/internetexplorer/
>>
>>
>>
>>      Your Mail works best with the New Yahoo Optimized IE8. Get it  
>> NOW! http://downloads.yahoo.com/in/internetexplorer/




From athr at LOC.GOV  Tue Mar 23 19:14:11 2010
From: athr at LOC.GOV (Allen W Thrasher)
Date: Tue, 23 Mar 10 15:14:11 -0400
Subject: flowers: interest in small or only in large?
Message-ID: <161227088987.23782.11895111088534661011.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Do people share my feeling that Indian literature is little interested in the beauty of small herbaceous flowering plants, but only in large trees, shrubs, and vines?  Any difference in this between Sanskrit, Prakrit, and Tamil literatures?  Any changes under Islamic or British influence?

Medical interest is of course another thing.

Allen

Allen W. Thrasher, Ph.D.
Senior Reference Librarian
Team Coordinator
South Asia Team, Asian Division
Library of Congress, Jefferson Building 150
101 Independence Ave., S.E.
Washington, DC 20540-4810
tel. 202-707-3732; fax 202-707-1724; athr at loc.gov
The opinions expressed do not necessarily reflect those of the Library of Congress.




From dbhattacharya2004 at YAHOO.CO.IN  Tue Mar 23 15:54:00 2010
From: dbhattacharya2004 at YAHOO.CO.IN (Dipak Bhattacharya)
Date: Tue, 23 Mar 10 21:24:00 +0530
Subject: Anyone heard of a flower called "aniccam?"
In-Reply-To: <D39F6049-890E-4F42-AA96-63789F3B4A1C@berkeley.edu>
Message-ID: <161227088977.23782.15610201422594049139.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

aru?p?nam is a healing herbal in the Atharvaveda, probably a mountain plant likely to be growing in the Lesser Himalayas. But the Orissa manuscripts read arusy?nam. 


--- On Tue, 23/3/10, George Hart <glhart at BERKELEY.EDU> wrote:


From: George Hart <glhart at BERKELEY.EDU>
Subject: Re: Anyone heard of a flower called "aniccam?"
To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk
Date: Tuesday, 23 March, 2010, 8:50 PM


Apparently another name of the a?iccam is aruppalam, which looks as if it could be have a Prakrit or Sanskrit origin (arpala, rupala?) but I can't find anything in those languages.? G. Hart

On Mar 21, 2010, at 11:38 PM, Dipak Bhattacharya wrote:

> Is it still common? The lajjaavatii or laajawantii was very common along rail tracks even in the seventies. But since its arrival, allegedly from Canada in 1973, the parthenium has spread like wild fire along the ancient EIR route and the parallel Grand Trunk Road destroying the common lajjaavatii. 
> Best 
> DB
> 
> --- On Mon, 22/3/10, venetia ansell <venetia.ansell at GMAIL.COM> wrote:
> 
> 
> From: venetia ansell <venetia.ansell at GMAIL.COM>
> Subject: Re: Anyone heard of a flower called "aniccam?"
> To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk
> Date: Monday, 22 March, 2010, 11:40 AM
> 
> 
> Mimosa pudica is certainly very common in Karnataka - it's called chhui mui
> in Hindi, mutthidaremuni in Kannada I think, and lajjaa (as in bashfulness)
> in Sanskrit.
> 
> On Mon, Mar 22, 2010 at 10:07 AM, Dipak Bhattacharya <
> dbhattacharya2004 at yahoo.co.in> wrote:
> 
>> Mimosa pudica is Thottalvadi in Tamil not aniccam.
>> Best
>> DB
>> 
>> --- On Mon, 22/3/10, Dominic Goodall <dominic.goodall at GMAIL.COM> wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> From: Dominic Goodall <dominic.goodall at GMAIL.COM>
>> Subject: Re: Anyone heard of a flower called "aniccam?"
>> To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk
>> Date: Monday, 22 March, 2010, 9:01 AM
>> 
>> 
>> This reminds me that in the hills in the South today one finds plenty of
>> Mimosa pudica, whose leaves temporarily fold up the second that you touch
>> them, or indeed blow on them.
>> 
>> But I am not sure how long these plants have been growing there, for the
>> Pandanus website (http://iu.ff.cuni.cz/pandanus/database/),
>> quoting Dymock, Warden, Hooper: Pharmacographia Indica, vol. I, pp.
>> 538-539, calls Mimosa pudica a "native of Brazil long naturalized in India".
>> 
>> Dominic Goodall
>> 
>> On 21 Mar 2010, at 21:39, Michael Witzel wrote:
>> 
>>> The whole discussion (here and in Tamil) reminded me of the little
>> yellow? flower,? called 'noli me tangere' "don't touch me!" in Latin.
>>> 
>>> For some details see: <http://www.aboutflowers.org/giantbalsamim_xal.htm>
>> (also in N. India)
>>> 
>>> (Leaves of certain trees also do that: they fold on touch).
>>> 
>>> Cheers,
>>> MW
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On Mar 21, 2010, at 11:54 AM, rajam wrote:
>>> 
>>>> Dear Whitney,
>>>> 
>>>> The poems don't indicate that the flower perishes, though. The emphasis
>> is on its delicateness, softness, and gentleness. So I wonder whether the
>> flower's "reflex" action ("to wilt" when someone smells it) fascinated the
>> poet. Maybe one could find a similar flower somewhere -- I hope!
>>>> 
>>>> Thanks and regards,
>>>> VSR
>>>> 
>>>> On Mar 21, 2010, at 1:18 AM, Whitney Cox wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> Dear Rajam,
>>>>> 
>>>>> In line with your observation that the flower is supposedly "super
>>>>> sensitive", it seems possible to me that the derivation of the name
>>>>> might be from a-nitya ("impermanent," "perishable"), rather than
>>>>> an+icch? (I see that the MTL, p. 191 thinks the same thing).? However,
>>>>> I don't know of any flower called anitya in Sanskrit.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Best regards,
>>>>> 
>>>>> Whitney
>>>>> 
>>>>> On 21 March 2010 06:00, rajam <rajam at earthlink.net> wrote:
>>>>>> Has anyone on this list come across a plant/flower type named
>> "aniccha" in
>>>>>> any non-Tamil literature?
>>>>>> Has anyone seen it (in person or in a picture)?
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> "Aniccam" is listed just as a flower in early Tamil poetry. Later on,
>> the
>>>>>> focus is on the flower's super sensitivity--about how it would wilt at
>> the
>>>>>> contact of human breath, how it would harm a woman [with a slender
>> waist] if
>>>>>> she wears the flower without removing its stem, ... and so on.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> There is a thought that the term "anicca" is derived thus: a + iccha
>> (a +
>>>>>> icchaa - Without Desire/Wish).
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> What is your thought? Are there similar flowers extolled in non-Tamil
>> poetry
>>>>>> for such super sensitivity?
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Thanks and regards,
>>>>>> V.S. Rajam
>>>>>> < (www.letsgrammar.org)>
>>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> --
>>>>> 
>>>>> Dr. Whitney Cox
>>>>> Department of the Languages and Cultures of South Asia,
>>>>> School of Oriental and African Studies
>>>>> Thornhaugh Street, Russell Square
>>>>> London WC1H 0XG
>>> 
>>> ============
>>> Michael Witzel
>>> witzel at fas.harvard.edu
>>> <www.fas.harvard.edu/~witzel/mwpage.htm>
>>> 
>>> Dept. of Sanskrit & Indian Studies, Harvard University
>>> 1 Bow Street,
>>> Cambridge MA 02138, USA
>>> 
>>> phone: 1- 617 - 495 3295, 496 8570, fax 617 - 496 8571;
>>> my direct line:? 617- 496 2990
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>? ? ???The INTERNET now has a personality. YOURS! See your Yahoo! Homepage.
>> http://in.yahoo.com/
>> 
> 
> 
> 
>? ? ? Your Mail works best with the New Yahoo Optimized IE8. Get it NOW! http://downloads.yahoo.com/in/internetexplorer/



      Your Mail works best with the New Yahoo Optimized IE8. Get it NOW! http://downloads.yahoo.com/in/internetexplorer/




From James_Fitzgerald at BROWN.EDU  Wed Mar 24 09:32:26 2010
From: James_Fitzgerald at BROWN.EDU (Fitzgerald, James)
Date: Wed, 24 Mar 10 05:32:26 -0400
Subject: Moksa/Nirvana
In-Reply-To: <f709d81e45b0.4ba88d8f@gci.net>
Message-ID: <161227089001.23782.5980924135701323630.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Dear Dr. Collins,

Thank you for mentioning your dissertation which sounds very
interesting.

I was not in any way suggesting there is not a rich history of the word
/muc in pre-Buddhist Sanskrit texts, only that I think the conceptual
complex involving the realization of a transcendently good resolution of
life in terms of escaping a systemic miserable condition, getting free
of the systemic bondage of the soul, etc., is a distinct set of
intellectual and rhetorical themes that is not initially organic with
conceptions of (re-)attaining some kind of original plenum or bliss. And
it is the complex of ideas and verbal formulations that I refer to as
exogenous--not any individual idea or word (which, as Dominic Goodall's
recent examples nicely show, are very labile).

All the best, Jim Fitzgerald

> If beatitude and release are originally from different 
> semantic fields, perhaps we could see many developments in 
> post 100 BCE "Hinduism" as efforts to put them together. For 
> example, the unity of the two goals of life (puruSArthas) in 
> Samkhya-Yoga, bhuj- and muc-. And surely tantra combines the 
> two thoroughly. 
> 
> Release, however, I would argue has a long Brahmanical 
> history, in the old Vedic theme of opening the closed world, 
> slaying the vRtra serpent, breaking open the cow stall, and 
> the mountain, propping apart heaven and earth, etc. Gonda's 
> old study on aMhas as "constriction" and the need to overcome 
> it in the process of cosmogenesis/sacrifice seems relevant (I 
> realize his argument is not completely accepted).
> 
> Finally, I have tried to see old Vedic cosmogonies (models 
> for sacrifice) as falling into two sorts, which broadly 
> parallel the release and absorption models. One is the 
> opening/release scenario I just sketched, which tends to be 
> associated with Varuna and Indra, the other is a flow model 
> associated with Agni and Soma, in which substance--light, 
> fire, rain,etc.-- flows from highest heaven to earth via the 
> cow, poetic speech, etc.  The two models come together 
> sometimes, as in the puruSasUkta where release (sacrifice) of 
> the cosmic Man is half (or more accurately one-fourth) of the 
> story and three-fourths remains amRta in heaven.  I discussed 
> this in my dissertation in 1976, The Origin of the Brahman 
> King Relationship in Indian Social Thought, University of 
> Texas (with Polome and Lehman).
> 
> Al Collins
> 




From fritsstaal at BERKELEY.EDU  Wed Mar 24 16:21:23 2010
From: fritsstaal at BERKELEY.EDU (FRITS STAAL)
Date: Wed, 24 Mar 10 09:21:23 -0700
Subject: Berlin 1881
In-Reply-To: <c4c5a5431003240853i2a4fbf4cw6d18adccd3641b0a@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <161227089008.23782.16504236658175609427.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

I have something related: Kern's Verspreide Geschriften vols. 12 (1924) -
13 (1927) but:

A. you probably have them in Leiden;

B. I could not find anything in any of those volumes about Bunyo Nanjo.

cheers and search on,

Frits

> Friends,
>
> I wonder if someone who has the proceedings of the Fifth International
> Congress of Orientalists held in Berlin in 1881 on his or her bed-side
> table
> (!) would be willing to look up something for me (it appears that while
> our
> library has the volumes for the 4th and 6th, we don't have the 5th). Is
> there  a list or index of attendees/participants? I know that the Japanese
> scholar Bunyiu Nanjio (Bunyu Nanjo) attended, along with his teacher Max
> M?ller. What I am interested to know is if Hendrik Kern was also there. I
> think he must have been, but at least the bibliography I have does not
> list
> a publication of his lecture (as it does for example for his contribution
> to
> the 6th meeting of the same congress). I am trying to find out if the two,
> Nanjo and Kern, might have met there. (Sadly, the correspondence files of
> both respective scholars were destroyed, so I can't track any letters they
> would have exchanged.)
>
> With best thanks in advance, Jonathan
>
> --
> J. Silk
> Instituut Kern / Universiteit Leiden
> Postbus 9515
> 2300 RA Leiden
> Netherlands
>


Frits Staal

http://philosophy.berkeley.edu/staal




From dominic.goodall at GMAIL.COM  Wed Mar 24 04:18:54 2010
From: dominic.goodall at GMAIL.COM (Dominic Goodall)
Date: Wed, 24 Mar 10 09:48:54 +0530
Subject: Moksa/Nirvana
In-Reply-To: <1A97D3D73A03FC419D87967D3CE4760C0A8CBE51@MAIL1.AD.Brown.Edu>
Message-ID: <161227088998.23782.12799714491715241458.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Just to reiterate this point, a few centuries into the Christian era  
we also find the terms saayujya and saayojya used by those for whom  
the liberated state is not conceived of as any sort of union, and  
terms such as kaivalya used by those for whom the liberated state is  
not one of isolation, and terms such as apavarga and du.hkhaanta used  
by those who conceive of the liberated state as characterised by an  
attainment of bliss and/or power, rather than simply as a release.

Dominic Goodall

On 23 Mar 2010, at 19:16, Fitzgerald, James wrote:

> While I think it is cerainly the case than when the term nirvAna is  
> used in (pre Gupta) Brahminic texts there is awareness that it is a  
> "nAstika" (they don't typically say "bauddha") term of ultimate  
> importance, I think we need to establish carefully how the word is  
> being used in the specific context, without assuming that highly  
> detailed or specific Buddhist themes are carried with it.




From jenni.cover at URSYS.COM.AU  Tue Mar 23 23:03:12 2010
From: jenni.cover at URSYS.COM.AU (Jennifer Cover)
Date: Wed, 24 Mar 10 10:03:12 +1100
Subject: Moksa/Nirvana
Message-ID: <161227088996.23782.3795143927318169542.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Greetings All,

 

I have been enjoying this discussion and would like to contribute the use of these words in an 18th century Sanskrit text named Bodhas?ra by Narahari. I am completing the translation of Bodhas?ra for publication in a few months. It is a predominately Vedanta text, but the scope of the text is vast, including reflections on Advaita, many types of Yoga (pat??jali, ha?ha, laya, mantra, bhakti, r?ja), ?iva-?akti, S??khya, daily ritual practices, hearing the Vedas and Pur??as, worship of Kr???a and ?iva etc.etc. There are various references to the Yogav?si??ha and Pur??as.

 

Bodhas?ra uses the word Mok?a (in various forms) many times, has a section of 10 verses on nirv??a, and a section of 18 verses on j?vanmukt?. The words nirv??a  and j?vanmukt?  are also used  in a few other verses. Narahari has many delightful things to say about all of these, but to summarise very briefly and generally. 

 

The essence of Mok?a is j?vabrahmaikya (union of individual and universal or individual and brahman). 

In his section on nirv??a, having said that it can?t be described, Narahari gives insights by saying what it isn?t and by saying that it is the end (anta) for sacred texts, ascetics, instruction and discernment. He concludes by saying that brahman must be really heard (not just heard about). If brahman is to be then there can only brahman. 

His section on j?vanmukt? celebrates the festival of duality and non-duality. He says that only for the one who has attained j?vanmukt? does the great festival of duality and non-duality happen. Among other things he describes it as a play of ?svara, a partial expression of  ?svara?s own form.

 

If these diacritics aren?t coming through please tell me.

 

Dr Jennifer Cover

Sydney

Australia




From rajam at EARTHLINK.NET  Wed Mar 24 20:57:23 2010
From: rajam at EARTHLINK.NET (rajam)
Date: Wed, 24 Mar 10 13:57:23 -0700
Subject: Much simpler than that (Re: expectation (Re: Anyone heard of a              flower called "aniccam?"))
In-Reply-To: <4BAA5AEE.7060904@univ-paris-diderot.fr>
Message-ID: <161227089016.23782.5613643795371045682.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Dear JLC,

Thanks for the bright answers!

My query was much much simpler. I was just wondering why anyone would  
look for answers for some deep-delving academic questions in a non- 
academic naive presentation like that of the young engineer's slide  
presentation of the flowers. That's all.

--vsr


On Mar 24, 2010, at 11:33 AM, Jean-Luc Chevillard wrote:

> ??????? V.S. Rajam,
>
> I believe there are (at least) two distinct ways of answering your  
> "naive / un-harmful" question.
>
>
> *(1)* EITHER we consider that linguistic fieldwork is needed
> (and that it MUST/CAN be done ONLY with native speakers, who tap on  
> their native knowledge
> [[which means that people will not pretend to really have known  
> (INTUITIVELY and previously)
> the answer to a question about something that they did not know  
> about for sure
> before making a GOOGLE search on Google Images]])
>
>
> *(2)* OR we remember that the LIVERPOOL INDOLOGY list
> (on which this message has appeared recently)
> is a mailing  list frequented by the users of many INDIAN languages
> (including sanskrit).
>
> That being the case,
> it makes sense to compare:
>
> *a.* the data found on the PANDANUS web site
> SEE: <http://iu.ff.cuni.cz/pandanus/database/>
> (recently quoted by Dominic GOODALL),
> which contains:
>
> 784 Malayalam plant names
>
> 675 Tamil plant names
>
> 670 Hindi plant names
>
> 650 Latin botanical names
>
> 616 Sanskrit plant names
>
> 543 English designations
>
> 146 names in Bengali
>
> 68 names in Prakrit
>
> [Welcome additions would be: Kannada, Telugu, etc.]
>
> *b* data compiled by the native users of many Indian languages  
> (including Tamil)
>
> *********************************
>
> As a Post-Scriptum,
> I would like to add that this exchange on the Liverpool Indology  
> mailing list
> is, to some extent, a post-scriptum
> to an exchange which earlier took place on another mailing list
> for which I am the owner [[DISCLAIMER STATEMENT]], on a French CNRS  
> server.
>
> A more complete set of textual data
> will be found at the following URL-s
> <https://listes.services.cnrs.fr/wws/arc/ctamil/2010-03/msg00054.html>
> (the ORIGINAL post by Palaniappan Vairam Sarathy,  which triggered  
> everything)
>
> A recent post,
> in which I am trying to make a synthesis of the NON-SPECULATIVE  
> evidence
> (including the ???????? / Pi?kalam [a moderately   
> old KO?A] evidence,
> which my friend George Hart seems to have been using,
> when mentioning alternate names for ????????),
> is available at:
> <https://listes.services.cnrs.fr/wws/arc/ctamil/2010-03/msg00095.html>
>
> Best wishes to all
>
> You are all of course welcome to join CTAMIL
> <https://listes.services.cnrs.fr/wws/info/ctamil>,
> on the CNRS server,
> if you are interested in such topics
>
> -- Jean-Luc Chevillard
>
>
>
> Le 3/23/2010 9:27 PM, rajam a ?crit :
>> The work by the young engineer at http://karkanirka.wordpress.com/ 
>> 2010/03/15/99tamilflowers_slideshow/
>> is excellent, informative, and educative. In fact, my initial  
>> query originated there.
>>
>>  /Unfortunately, it does not give names in Sanskrit and other  
>> Indian languages,/
>>
>> Just a naive / un-harmful question: But why do we have such  
>> expectation -- for "names in Sanskrit" to be available?
>>
>>
>> On Mar 23, 2010, at 11:02 AM, George Hart wrote:
>>
>>> Aruppalam might be from aruphala.  Aru, according to Apte, is  
>>> "rakta khadira," but unfortunately he doesn't define it.  Kittel  
>>> says it is a plant and says it is "me?asige," but that is not  
>>> defined either.  Khadira by itself is acacia catechu, and rakta  
>>> khadira might be an acacia tree with red flowers.  Acacia arabica  
>>> (which is native to India)?  (see http://www.exogarden.nl/ 
>>> palmzaden/images/acacia-arabica.jpg).  The leaves of this are  
>>> small, gentle and fernlike and could possibly be said to retreat  
>>> when touched.  In any case, this is all speculation -- it points  
>>> up how difficult it can be to identify botanical names in old  
>>> Indian texts.
>>>
>>> For a list (with pictures and recitation) of the flowers in the  
>>> Ku?i?cipp???u (63-95), see
>>>
>>> http://karkanirka.wordpress.com/2010/03/15/99tamilflowers_slideshow/
>>>
>>> This is a wonderful website and gives some very useful  
>>> information.  Unfortunately, it does not give names in Sanskrit  
>>> and other Indian languages, but it does give Latin names and so  
>>> can be used if you know the botanical name of a flower.  George Hart
>>>
>>> On Mar 23, 2010, at 8:54 AM, Dipak Bhattacharya wrote:
>>>
>>>> aru?p?nam is a healing herbal in the Atharvaveda, probably a  
>>>> mountain plant likely to be growing in the Lesser Himalayas. But  
>>>> the Orissa manuscripts read arusy?nam.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --- On Tue, 23/3/10, George Hart <glhart at BERKELEY.EDU> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> From: George Hart <glhart at BERKELEY.EDU>
>>>> Subject: Re: Anyone heard of a flower called "aniccam?"
>>>> To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk
>>>> Date: Tuesday, 23 March, 2010, 8:50 PM
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Apparently another name of the a?iccam is aruppalam, which  
>>>> looks as if it could be have a Prakrit or Sanskrit origin  
>>>> (arpala, rupala?) but I can't find anything in those languages.   
>>>> G. Hart
>>>>
>>>> On Mar 21, 2010, at 11:38 PM, Dipak Bhattacharya wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Is it still common? The lajjaavatii or laajawantii was very  
>>>>> common along rail tracks even in the seventies. But since its  
>>>>> arrival, allegedly from Canada in 1973, the parthenium has  
>>>>> spread like wild fire along the ancient EIR route and the  
>>>>> parallel Grand Trunk Road destroying the common lajjaavatii.
>>>>> Best
>>>>> DB
>>>>>
>>>>> --- On Mon, 22/3/10, venetia ansell <venetia.ansell at GMAIL.COM>  
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> From: venetia ansell <venetia.ansell at GMAIL.COM>
>>>>> Subject: Re: Anyone heard of a flower called "aniccam?"
>>>>> To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk
>>>>> Date: Monday, 22 March, 2010, 11:40 AM
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Mimosa pudica is certainly very common in Karnataka - it's  
>>>>> called chhui mui
>>>>> in Hindi, mutthidaremuni in Kannada I think, and lajjaa (as in  
>>>>> bashfulness)
>>>>> in Sanskrit.
>>>>>
>>>>> On Mon, Mar 22, 2010 at 10:07 AM, Dipak Bhattacharya <
>>>>> dbhattacharya2004 at yahoo.co.in> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Mimosa pudica is Thottalvadi in Tamil not aniccam.
>>>>>> Best
>>>>>> DB
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --- On Mon, 22/3/10, Dominic Goodall  
>>>>>> <dominic.goodall at GMAIL.COM> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> From: Dominic Goodall <dominic.goodall at GMAIL.COM>
>>>>>> Subject: Re: Anyone heard of a flower called "aniccam?"
>>>>>> To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk
>>>>>> Date: Monday, 22 March, 2010, 9:01 AM
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> This reminds me that in the hills in the South today one finds  
>>>>>> plenty of
>>>>>> Mimosa pudica, whose leaves temporarily fold up the second  
>>>>>> that you touch
>>>>>> them, or indeed blow on them.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> But I am not sure how long these plants have been growing  
>>>>>> there, for the
>>>>>> Pandanus website (http://iu.ff.cuni.cz/pandanus/database/),
>>>>>> quoting Dymock, Warden, Hooper: Pharmacographia Indica, vol.  
>>>>>> I, pp.
>>>>>> 538-539, calls Mimosa pudica a "native of Brazil long  
>>>>>> naturalized in India".
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Dominic Goodall
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 21 Mar 2010, at 21:39, Michael Witzel wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The whole discussion (here and in Tamil) reminded me of the  
>>>>>>> little
>>>>>> yellow  flower,  called 'noli me tangere' "don't touch me!" in  
>>>>>> Latin.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> For some details see: <http://www.aboutflowers.org/ 
>>>>>>> giantbalsamim_xal.htm>
>>>>>> (also in N. India)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> (Leaves of certain trees also do that: they fold on touch).
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>>> MW
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Mar 21, 2010, at 11:54 AM, rajam wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Dear Whitney,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The poems don't indicate that the flower perishes, though.  
>>>>>>>> The emphasis
>>>>>> is on its delicateness, softness, and gentleness. So I wonder  
>>>>>> whether the
>>>>>> flower's "reflex" action ("to wilt" when someone smells it)  
>>>>>> fascinated the
>>>>>> poet. Maybe one could find a similar flower somewhere -- I hope!
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Thanks and regards,
>>>>>>>> VSR
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Mar 21, 2010, at 1:18 AM, Whitney Cox wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Dear Rajam,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> In line with your observation that the flower is supposedly  
>>>>>>>>> "super
>>>>>>>>> sensitive", it seems possible to me that the derivation of  
>>>>>>>>> the name
>>>>>>>>> might be from a-nitya ("impermanent," "perishable"), rather  
>>>>>>>>> than
>>>>>>>>> an+icch? (I see that the MTL, p. 191 thinks the same  
>>>>>>>>> thing).  However,
>>>>>>>>> I don't know of any flower called anitya in Sanskrit.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Best regards,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Whitney
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On 21 March 2010 06:00, rajam <rajam at earthlink.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> Has anyone on this list come across a plant/flower type named
>>>>>> "aniccha" in
>>>>>>>>>> any non-Tamil literature?
>>>>>>>>>> Has anyone seen it (in person or in a picture)?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> "Aniccam" is listed just as a flower in early Tamil  
>>>>>>>>>> poetry. Later on,
>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>> focus is on the flower's super sensitivity--about how it  
>>>>>>>>>> would wilt at
>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>> contact of human breath, how it would harm a woman [with a  
>>>>>>>>>> slender
>>>>>> waist] if
>>>>>>>>>> she wears the flower without removing its stem, ... and so  
>>>>>>>>>> on.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> There is a thought that the term "anicca" is derived thus:  
>>>>>>>>>> a + iccha
>>>>>> (a +
>>>>>>>>>> icchaa - Without Desire/Wish).
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> What is your thought? Are there similar flowers extolled  
>>>>>>>>>> in non-Tamil
>>>>>> poetry
>>>>>>>>>> for such super sensitivity?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Thanks and regards,
>>>>>>>>>> V.S. Rajam
>>>>>>>>>> < (www.letsgrammar.org)>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> -- 
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Dr. Whitney Cox
>>>>>>>>> Department of the Languages and Cultures of South Asia,
>>>>>>>>> School of Oriental and African Studies
>>>>>>>>> Thornhaugh Street, Russell Square
>>>>>>>>> London WC1H 0XG
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ============
>>>>>>> Michael Witzel
>>>>>>> witzel at fas.harvard.edu
>>>>>>> <www.fas.harvard.edu/~witzel/mwpage.htm>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Dept. of Sanskrit & Indian Studies, Harvard University
>>>>>>> 1 Bow Street,
>>>>>>> Cambridge MA 02138, USA
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> phone: 1- 617 - 495 3295, 496 8570, fax 617 - 496 8571;
>>>>>>> my direct line:  617- 496 2990
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>        The INTERNET now has a personality. YOURS! See your  
>>>>>> Yahoo! Homepage.
>>>>>> http://in.yahoo.com/
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>       Your Mail works best with the New Yahoo Optimized IE8.  
>>>>> Get it NOW! http://downloads.yahoo.com/in/internetexplorer/
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>      Your Mail works best with the New Yahoo Optimized IE8. Get  
>>>> it NOW! http://downloads.yahoo.com/in/internetexplorer/
>>




From kauzeya at GMAIL.COM  Wed Mar 24 15:53:26 2010
From: kauzeya at GMAIL.COM (Jonathan Silk)
Date: Wed, 24 Mar 10 16:53:26 +0100
Subject: Berlin 1881
Message-ID: <161227089003.23782.3518151911624432353.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Friends,

I wonder if someone who has the proceedings of the Fifth International
Congress of Orientalists held in Berlin in 1881 on his or her bed-side table
(!) would be willing to look up something for me (it appears that while our
library has the volumes for the 4th and 6th, we don't have the 5th). Is
there  a list or index of attendees/participants? I know that the Japanese
scholar Bunyiu Nanjio (Bunyu Nanjo) attended, along with his teacher Max
M?ller. What I am interested to know is if Hendrik Kern was also there. I
think he must have been, but at least the bibliography I have does not list
a publication of his lecture (as it does for example for his contribution to
the 6th meeting of the same congress). I am trying to find out if the two,
Nanjo and Kern, might have met there. (Sadly, the correspondence files of
both respective scholars were destroyed, so I can't track any letters they
would have exchanged.)

With best thanks in advance, Jonathan

-- 
J. Silk
Instituut Kern / Universiteit Leiden
Postbus 9515
2300 RA Leiden
Netherlands




From kauzeya at GMAIL.COM  Wed Mar 24 15:55:38 2010
From: kauzeya at GMAIL.COM (Jonathan Silk)
Date: Wed, 24 Mar 10 16:55:38 +0100
Subject: PS: regarding Kern at the 1881 Berlin conference
Message-ID: <161227089006.23782.11192733596389571547.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

this to Allan Thrasher: LOC actually lists its ownership of Weber's files
from the congress, if you wanted to wade through them for such
information....

-- 
J. Silk
Instituut Kern / Universiteit Leiden
Postbus 9515
2300 RA Leiden
Netherlands




From jean-luc.chevillard at UNIV-PARIS-DIDEROT.FR  Wed Mar 24 18:33:18 2010
From: jean-luc.chevillard at UNIV-PARIS-DIDEROT.FR (Jean-Luc Chevillard)
Date: Wed, 24 Mar 10 19:33:18 +0100
Subject: expectation (Re: Anyone heard of a flower called "aniccam?")
In-Reply-To: <9F6853B0-4FAF-4652-B31E-BF7E4F73F455@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <161227089010.23782.10746310429323363889.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

??????? V.S. Rajam,

I believe there are (at least) two distinct ways of answering your 
"naive / un-harmful" question.


*(1)* EITHER we consider that linguistic fieldwork is needed
(and that it MUST/CAN be done ONLY with native speakers, who tap on 
their native knowledge
[[which means that people will not pretend to really have known 
(INTUITIVELY and previously)
the answer to a question about something that they did not know about 
for sure
before making a GOOGLE search on Google Images]])


*(2)* OR we remember that the LIVERPOOL INDOLOGY list
(on which this message has appeared recently)
is a mailing  list frequented by the users of many INDIAN languages
(including sanskrit).

That being the case,
it makes sense to compare:

*a.* the data found on the PANDANUS web site
SEE: <http://iu.ff.cuni.cz/pandanus/database/>
(recently quoted by Dominic GOODALL),
which contains:

784 Malayalam plant names

675 Tamil plant names

670 Hindi plant names

650 Latin botanical names

616 Sanskrit plant names

543 English designations

146 names in Bengali

68 names in Prakrit

[Welcome additions would be: Kannada, Telugu, etc.]

*b* data compiled by the native users of many Indian languages 
(including Tamil)

*********************************

As a Post-Scriptum,
I would like to add that this exchange on the Liverpool Indology mailing 
list
is, to some extent, a post-scriptum
to an exchange which earlier took place on another mailing list
for which I am the owner [[DISCLAIMER STATEMENT]], on a French CNRS server.

A more complete set of textual data
will be found at the following URL-s
<https://listes.services.cnrs.fr/wws/arc/ctamil/2010-03/msg00054.html>
(the ORIGINAL post by Palaniappan Vairam Sarathy,  which triggered 
everything)

A recent post,
in which I am trying to make a synthesis of the NON-SPECULATIVE evidence
(including the ???????? / Pi?kalam [a moderately  old KO?A] evidence,
which my friend George Hart seems to have been using,
when mentioning alternate names for ????????),
is available at:
<https://listes.services.cnrs.fr/wws/arc/ctamil/2010-03/msg00095.html>

Best wishes to all

You are all of course welcome to join CTAMIL
<https://listes.services.cnrs.fr/wws/info/ctamil>,
on the CNRS server,
if you are interested in such topics

-- Jean-Luc Chevillard



Le 3/23/2010 9:27 PM, rajam a ?crit :
> The work by the young engineer at 
> http://karkanirka.wordpress.com/2010/03/15/99tamilflowers_slideshow/
> is excellent, informative, and educative. In fact, my initial query 
> originated there.
>
>  /Unfortunately, it does not give names in Sanskrit and other Indian 
> languages,/
>
> Just a naive / un-harmful question: But why do we have such 
> expectation -- for "names in Sanskrit" to be available?
>
>
> On Mar 23, 2010, at 11:02 AM, George Hart wrote:
>
>> Aruppalam might be from aruphala.  Aru, according to Apte, is "rakta 
>> khadira," but unfortunately he doesn't define it.  Kittel says it is 
>> a plant and says it is "me?asige," but that is not defined either.  
>> Khadira by itself is acacia catechu, and rakta khadira might be an 
>> acacia tree with red flowers.  Acacia arabica (which is native to 
>> India)?  (see 
>> http://www.exogarden.nl/palmzaden/images/acacia-arabica.jpg).  The 
>> leaves of this are small, gentle and fernlike and could possibly be 
>> said to retreat when touched.  In any case, this is all speculation 
>> -- it points up how difficult it can be to identify botanical names 
>> in old Indian texts.
>>
>> For a list (with pictures and recitation) of the flowers in the 
>> Ku?i?cipp???u (63-95), see
>>
>> http://karkanirka.wordpress.com/2010/03/15/99tamilflowers_slideshow/
>>
>> This is a wonderful website and gives some very useful information.  
>> Unfortunately, it does not give names in Sanskrit and other Indian 
>> languages, but it does give Latin names and so can be used if you 
>> know the botanical name of a flower.  George Hart
>>
>> On Mar 23, 2010, at 8:54 AM, Dipak Bhattacharya wrote:
>>
>>> aru?p?nam is a healing herbal in the Atharvaveda, probably a 
>>> mountain plant likely to be growing in the Lesser Himalayas. But the 
>>> Orissa manuscripts read arusy?nam.
>>>
>>>
>>> --- On Tue, 23/3/10, George Hart <glhart at BERKELEY.EDU> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> From: George Hart <glhart at BERKELEY.EDU>
>>> Subject: Re: Anyone heard of a flower called "aniccam?"
>>> To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk
>>> Date: Tuesday, 23 March, 2010, 8:50 PM
>>>
>>>
>>> Apparently another name of the a?iccam is aruppalam, which looks as 
>>> if it could be have a Prakrit or Sanskrit origin (arpala, rupala?) 
>>> but I can't find anything in those languages.  G. Hart
>>>
>>> On Mar 21, 2010, at 11:38 PM, Dipak Bhattacharya wrote:
>>>
>>>> Is it still common? The lajjaavatii or laajawantii was very common 
>>>> along rail tracks even in the seventies. But since its arrival, 
>>>> allegedly from Canada in 1973, the parthenium has spread like wild 
>>>> fire along the ancient EIR route and the parallel Grand Trunk Road 
>>>> destroying the common lajjaavatii.
>>>> Best
>>>> DB
>>>>
>>>> --- On Mon, 22/3/10, venetia ansell <venetia.ansell at GMAIL.COM> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> From: venetia ansell <venetia.ansell at GMAIL.COM>
>>>> Subject: Re: Anyone heard of a flower called "aniccam?"
>>>> To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk
>>>> Date: Monday, 22 March, 2010, 11:40 AM
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Mimosa pudica is certainly very common in Karnataka - it's called 
>>>> chhui mui
>>>> in Hindi, mutthidaremuni in Kannada I think, and lajjaa (as in 
>>>> bashfulness)
>>>> in Sanskrit.
>>>>
>>>> On Mon, Mar 22, 2010 at 10:07 AM, Dipak Bhattacharya <
>>>> dbhattacharya2004 at yahoo.co.in> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Mimosa pudica is Thottalvadi in Tamil not aniccam.
>>>>> Best
>>>>> DB
>>>>>
>>>>> --- On Mon, 22/3/10, Dominic Goodall <dominic.goodall at GMAIL.COM> 
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> From: Dominic Goodall <dominic.goodall at GMAIL.COM>
>>>>> Subject: Re: Anyone heard of a flower called "aniccam?"
>>>>> To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk
>>>>> Date: Monday, 22 March, 2010, 9:01 AM
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> This reminds me that in the hills in the South today one finds 
>>>>> plenty of
>>>>> Mimosa pudica, whose leaves temporarily fold up the second that 
>>>>> you touch
>>>>> them, or indeed blow on them.
>>>>>
>>>>> But I am not sure how long these plants have been growing there, 
>>>>> for the
>>>>> Pandanus website (http://iu.ff.cuni.cz/pandanus/database/),
>>>>> quoting Dymock, Warden, Hooper: Pharmacographia Indica, vol. I, pp.
>>>>> 538-539, calls Mimosa pudica a "native of Brazil long naturalized 
>>>>> in India".
>>>>>
>>>>> Dominic Goodall
>>>>>
>>>>> On 21 Mar 2010, at 21:39, Michael Witzel wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> The whole discussion (here and in Tamil) reminded me of the little
>>>>> yellow  flower,  called 'noli me tangere' "don't touch me!" in Latin.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> For some details see: 
>>>>>> <http://www.aboutflowers.org/giantbalsamim_xal.htm>
>>>>> (also in N. India)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> (Leaves of certain trees also do that: they fold on touch).
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>> MW
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Mar 21, 2010, at 11:54 AM, rajam wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Dear Whitney,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The poems don't indicate that the flower perishes, though. The 
>>>>>>> emphasis
>>>>> is on its delicateness, softness, and gentleness. So I wonder 
>>>>> whether the
>>>>> flower's "reflex" action ("to wilt" when someone smells it) 
>>>>> fascinated the
>>>>> poet. Maybe one could find a similar flower somewhere -- I hope!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Thanks and regards,
>>>>>>> VSR
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Mar 21, 2010, at 1:18 AM, Whitney Cox wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Dear Rajam,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> In line with your observation that the flower is supposedly "super
>>>>>>>> sensitive", it seems possible to me that the derivation of the 
>>>>>>>> name
>>>>>>>> might be from a-nitya ("impermanent," "perishable"), rather than
>>>>>>>> an+icch? (I see that the MTL, p. 191 thinks the same thing).  
>>>>>>>> However,
>>>>>>>> I don't know of any flower called anitya in Sanskrit.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Best regards,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Whitney
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 21 March 2010 06:00, rajam <rajam at earthlink.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Has anyone on this list come across a plant/flower type named
>>>>> "aniccha" in
>>>>>>>>> any non-Tamil literature?
>>>>>>>>> Has anyone seen it (in person or in a picture)?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> "Aniccam" is listed just as a flower in early Tamil poetry. 
>>>>>>>>> Later on,
>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>> focus is on the flower's super sensitivity--about how it would 
>>>>>>>>> wilt at
>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>> contact of human breath, how it would harm a woman [with a 
>>>>>>>>> slender
>>>>> waist] if
>>>>>>>>> she wears the flower without removing its stem, ... and so on.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> There is a thought that the term "anicca" is derived thus: a + 
>>>>>>>>> iccha
>>>>> (a +
>>>>>>>>> icchaa - Without Desire/Wish).
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> What is your thought? Are there similar flowers extolled in 
>>>>>>>>> non-Tamil
>>>>> poetry
>>>>>>>>> for such super sensitivity?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Thanks and regards,
>>>>>>>>> V.S. Rajam
>>>>>>>>> < (www.letsgrammar.org)>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> -- 
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Dr. Whitney Cox
>>>>>>>> Department of the Languages and Cultures of South Asia,
>>>>>>>> School of Oriental and African Studies
>>>>>>>> Thornhaugh Street, Russell Square
>>>>>>>> London WC1H 0XG
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ============
>>>>>> Michael Witzel
>>>>>> witzel at fas.harvard.edu
>>>>>> <www.fas.harvard.edu/~witzel/mwpage.htm>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Dept. of Sanskrit & Indian Studies, Harvard University
>>>>>> 1 Bow Street,
>>>>>> Cambridge MA 02138, USA
>>>>>>
>>>>>> phone: 1- 617 - 495 3295, 496 8570, fax 617 - 496 8571;
>>>>>> my direct line:  617- 496 2990
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>        The INTERNET now has a personality. YOURS! See your Yahoo! 
>>>>> Homepage.
>>>>> http://in.yahoo.com/
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>       Your Mail works best with the New Yahoo Optimized IE8. Get it 
>>>> NOW! http://downloads.yahoo.com/in/internetexplorer/
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>      Your Mail works best with the New Yahoo Optimized IE8. Get it 
>>> NOW! http://downloads.yahoo.com/in/internetexplorer/
>




From kauzeya at GMAIL.COM  Wed Mar 24 18:33:49 2010
From: kauzeya at GMAIL.COM (Jonathan Silk)
Date: Wed, 24 Mar 10 19:33:49 +0100
Subject: Berlin 1881
In-Reply-To: <c4c5a5431003240853i2a4fbf4cw6d18adccd3641b0a@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <161227089013.23782.3792719053771345106.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Will Sweetman has pointed me to: :
http://www.archive.org/details/verhandlungende03unkngoog

It certainly appears  from p 8 here that Kern was not there (although Speyer
was--this was from his days in Amsterdam--he came to Leiden only after
Kern's death, I believe). It is somewhat awe-inspiring to read the list of
attendees...

Thanks so much--I think this answers my immediate question. Though now I
wonder why Kern was not there--he is mentioned in the minutes as being one
of the people who should organize the next meeting were it to be held in
Leiden.

thanks so much!!  jonathan

On Wed, Mar 24, 2010 at 4:53 PM, Jonathan Silk <kauzeya at gmail.com> wrote:

> Friends,
>
> I wonder if someone who has the proceedings of the Fifth International
> Congress of Orientalists held in Berlin in 1881 on his or her bed-side table
> (!) would be willing to look up something for me (it appears that while our
> library has the volumes for the 4th and 6th, we don't have the 5th). Is
> there  a list or index of attendees/participants? I know that the Japanese
> scholar Bunyiu Nanjio (Bunyu Nanjo) attended, along with his teacher Max
> M?ller. What I am interested to know is if Hendrik Kern was also there. I
> think he must have been, but at least the bibliography I have does not list
> a publication of his lecture (as it does for example for his contribution to
> the 6th meeting of the same congress). I am trying to find out if the two,
> Nanjo and Kern, might have met there. (Sadly, the correspondence files of
> both respective scholars were destroyed, so I can't track any letters they
> would have exchanged.)
>
> With best thanks in advance, Jonathan
>
> --
> J. Silk
> Instituut Kern / Universiteit Leiden
> Postbus 9515
> 2300 RA Leiden
> Netherlands
>



-- 
J. Silk
Instituut Kern / Universiteit Leiden
Postbus 9515
2300 RA Leiden
Netherlands




From sasamp at NUS.EDU.SG  Thu Mar 25 01:35:08 2010
From: sasamp at NUS.EDU.SG (A.M. Pinkney)
Date: Thu, 25 Mar 10 09:35:08 +0800
Subject: Hindi Lectureship at National University of Singapore
Message-ID: <161227089018.23782.8125626240919447091.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Centre for Language Studies
National University of Singapore

The National University of Singapore (NUS) invites applications for the following full-time faculty position in the Centre for Language Studies: Lecturer for Hindi Language. 

The Centre, a centre under the Faculty of Arts and Social Sciences, currently teaches twelve languages, mainly to undergraduates at elementary, intermediate and advanced levels.  Applicants must be fluent in or have near native competency in Hindi and English. They should have a relevant Master?s degree from a reputed institution with at least three years of experience in teaching Hindi as a foreign language and curriculum development. Skills/knowledge/experience in the application of IT to language teaching and/or research in Hindi as a foreign language would be an advantage. Experience in teaching students from a wide range of linguistic backgrounds would be an asset.  The appointee will assume the role of Convenor for Hindi language programme.  Duties will include a wide range of teaching and developmental tasks for lectures and tutorials as well as the management of the Hindi language programme. Appointment will be made on a three-year contract, renewable subject to mutual agreement. Remuneration will be commensurate with qualifications and experience. Standard leave and medical benefits are provided. For expatriate staff, a housing allowance may also be payable. Applicants may contact the Centre if they have any queries.

Applications are to be made in English. Those interested in the position should send a cover letter, a CV, a brief teaching philosophy statement, representative samples of self-developed teaching/learning material, copies of educational certificates and the names and contact information (postal and e-mail addresses, and fax numbers) of three academic referees to:

The Director
Centre for Language Studies
Faculty of Arts & Social Sciences
National University of Singapore
#02-05, AS4, 9 Arts Link
Singapore 117570
Tel: 6516-6346
Fax: 6777-7736
Email: clssec at nus.edu.sg

Review of applications will begin from April 19, 2010, and will continue until the position has been filled.

Only shortlisted candidates will be notified.

Visit our website at http://www.fas.nus.edu.sg/cls/ for an official notice of the position and for information on the Centre and http://www.nus.edu.sg for
information on the University.
__________________________________________________________________________
Andrea Marion Pinkney
Assistant Professor
South Asian Studies Programme
National University of Singapore
5 Arts Link, AS7-04-03
Singapore 117570
Phone: +65 6516.7776
Email: sasamp at nus.edu.sg
http://www.fas.nus.edu.sg/sas/people/andreapinkney.html




From andrew.ollett at LING-PHIL.OX.AC.UK  Thu Mar 25 20:01:11 2010
From: andrew.ollett at LING-PHIL.OX.AC.UK (Andrew Ollett)
Date: Thu, 25 Mar 10 16:01:11 -0400
Subject: arthur tomson's ratnama=?UTF-8?Q?=C3=B1j=C5=AB=E1=B9=A3=C4=81?=
Message-ID: <161227089020.23782.5431973443569596118.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

list members,

in this article:

@INCOLLECTION{Tripathi1977,
  author = {Chandrabhal Tripathi},
  title = {{Ratnama?j??? and `Chandoviciti'}},
  booktitle = {Beitr?ge zur Indienforschung},
  publisher = {Museum f?r indische Kunst},
  year = {1977},
  pages = {549-560},
  address = {Berlin},
}

i encountered a few references to an edition of the ratnama?j???, a sanskrit
work on metrics, then under preparation by arthur tomson in berlin, who had
written his MA dissertation on it.  does anyone know what happened to it?

thanks in advance.

andrew ollett




From pwyzlic at UNI-BONN.DE  Thu Mar 25 20:21:10 2010
From: pwyzlic at UNI-BONN.DE (Peter Wyzlic)
Date: Thu, 25 Mar 10 21:21:10 +0100
Subject: arthur tomson's              ratnama=?utf-8?Q?=C3=B1j=C5=AB=E1=B9=A3_=C4=81?=
In-Reply-To: <c60a73e81003251301l5bfd63e8v73fb329547fb0489@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <161227089022.23782.5859424893343241766.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Am 25.03.2010 um 21:01 schrieb Andrew Ollett:

> i encountered a few references to an edition of the ratnama?j???, a sanskrit
> work on metrics, then under preparation by arthur tomson in berlin, who had
> written his MA dissertation on it.  does anyone know what happened to it?


There is, at least, one copy in the library of the FU Berlin, the catalogue entry runs:

Tomson, Arthur : 
Ratnam?njusa : adhyaya 1 - 2 / Arthur Tomson, 1976. - 71 Bl. 
Berlin, Freie Univ., Diss., 1976 
Bestand: UB, Signatur: 34/76/60632(7), Standort: MAG-D,  

Since it is not found elsewhere: I guess, it's not really a "dissertation" as indicated by the bibliographical description but rather the M.A. thesis. 

Hope it helps
Peter Wyzlic

--
Institut f?r Orient- und Asienwissenschaften
Abteilung f?r Indologie
Universit?t Bonn
Regina-Pacis-Weg 7
53113 Bonn




From rajam at EARTHLINK.NET  Fri Mar 26 04:40:51 2010
From: rajam at EARTHLINK.NET (rajam)
Date: Thu, 25 Mar 10 21:40:51 -0700
Subject: Text processing in Unicode
In-Reply-To: <162356.90889.qm@web8606.mail.in.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <161227089031.23782.589057257650063372.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

This may also happen based on the specific operating system. I use an  
old OS X (10.4)-based Mac PowerBook G4.

I copied a small paragraph and have pasted it below. It seems to have  
turned out fine (except for a couple of minor glitches -- with  
respect to the letters r and ai). The latest OS may have resolved  
this problem:

===============
?????????
?????? ???????  
???????????  
??????????????  
"??????????"
??????? ??????????????  
????? ??????????, ????  
??????, ??,
?????? 11,25, ??????????? 15  
???? ????? ?????????  
????? ?????????
??????????? ??? ? 
????????. ??????????  
??????????? ???????
??????? ???????????  
?????? ???????.
????????? ?????  
????????????.

==================

As for searching, the typing into the search field may pose a  
problem, since the keyboard may be different and the ASCII values are  
not properly read-in. The best way is to copy an instance of the  
desired item and paste it into the search field and hit the Enter/ 
Return key as we go along.

Best,
--vsr


On Mar 25, 2010, at 9:19 PM, Dipak Bhattacharya wrote:

> I can speak of two problems. The characters/signs are sometimes  
> dispersed when saved in MSWord and a systematic replacement of the  
> signs in the keyboard. The seond problem rises because of  
> unintended bad programming during processing and can be removed by  
> restarting.the computer. The first problem rises only when some  
> editing is attempted in the MS Word format ie  not in the Indian  
> script processor. I avoid editing such files in MSWord formaat.
> Best
> DB
>
> --- On Fri, 26/3/10, Sudalaimuthu Palaniappan <palaniappa at AOL.COM>  
> wrote:
>
>
> From: Sudalaimuthu Palaniappan <palaniappa at AOL.COM>
> Subject: Text processing in Unicode
> To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk
> Date: Friday, 26 March, 2010, 8:41 AM
>
>
> Dear Indologists,
>
> I am seeing some problems in text processing in Tamil texts created  
> using Unicode fonts.
> Consider the following text in Project Madurai.
> http://www.projectmadurai.org/pm_etexts/pdf/pm0323.pdf
>
> According to the cover page, "This pdf file is based on Unicode  
> with corresponding Latha font embedded in the file. Hence this file  
> can be viewed and printed on all computer platforms: Windows,  
> Macintosh and Unix without the need to have the font installed in  
> your computer."
>
> When I searched the text for the string ???? (tAn2), I hit  
> not only ???? but also ???? (tOn2) !
>
> Has anyone processing (searching, sorting) Unicode texts in  
> Sanskrit or other Indian languages encountered any problems like  
> the above?
>
> (Needless to say, when one copies the text from PDF and pastes in  
> email, one gets messed up text like this. ???????  
> ?????? ????? ????  
> ????????? ?????????  
> ????    ?????? ????????  
> ?????????  
> ???????????????. ??????  
> ???????????? ????????  
> ????? ??????????????.)
>
> (However, a draft report by an Expert Committee on Technology  
> Standards for Indian Languages
> (http://egovstandards.gov.in/apex-review/egscontent. 
> 2009-06-10.5999916108/at_download/file) claims:
> ? All major operating systems, browsers, editors, word processors  
> and other applications & tools are supporting Unicode.
> ? It is possible to use Indian languages and scripts in the  
> Unicode environment, which will resolve the compatibility issue.
> ? The documents created using Unicode may be searched very easily  
> on the web.
> ? As Unicode is widely recognized all over the world and also  
> supporting Indian languages, it will ease Localization applications  
> including e-Governance application
> for all the constitutionally recognized Indian languages.
> ? Since Indian languages are also used in the other part of the  
> world, it is possible to have Global data exchange.)
>
> Thanks in advance.
>
> Regards,
> Palaniappan
>
>
>
>       Your Mail works best with the New Yahoo Optimized IE8. Get it  
> NOW! http://downloads.yahoo.com/in/internetexplorer/




From palaniappa at AOL.COM  Fri Mar 26 03:11:28 2010
From: palaniappa at AOL.COM (Sudalaimuthu Palaniappan)
Date: Thu, 25 Mar 10 22:11:28 -0500
Subject: Text processing in Unicode
Message-ID: <161227089025.23782.3971969042226076393.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Dear Indologists,

I am seeing some problems in text processing in Tamil texts created using Unicode fonts.
Consider the following text in Project Madurai.
http://www.projectmadurai.org/pm_etexts/pdf/pm0323.pdf

According to the cover page, "This pdf file is based on Unicode with corresponding Latha font embedded in the file. Hence this file can be viewed and printed on all computer platforms: Windows, Macintosh and Unix without the need to have the font installed in your computer."

When I searched the text for the string ???? (tAn2), I hit not only ???? but also ???? (tOn2) ! 

Has anyone processing (searching, sorting) Unicode texts in Sanskrit or other Indian languages encountered any problems like the above? 

(Needless to say, when one copies the text from PDF and pastes in email, one gets messed up text like this. ??????? ?????? ????? ???? ????????? ????????? ????	?????? ???????? ????????? ???????????????. ?????? ???????????? ???????? ????? ??????????????.)

(However, a draft report by an Expert Committee on Technology Standards for Indian Languages 
(http://egovstandards.gov.in/apex-review/egscontent.2009-06-10.5999916108/at_download/file) claims: 
? All major operating systems, browsers, editors, word processors and other applications & tools are supporting Unicode.
? It is possible to use Indian languages and scripts in the Unicode environment, which will resolve the compatibility issue.
? The documents created using Unicode may be searched very easily on the web. 
? As Unicode is widely recognized all over the world and also supporting Indian languages, it will ease Localization applications including e-Governance application
for all the constitutionally recognized Indian languages.
? Since Indian languages are also used in the other part of the world, it is possible to have Global data exchange.)

Thanks in advance.

Regards,
Palaniappan




From annamisia at YAHOO.COM  Fri Mar 26 13:20:01 2010
From: annamisia at YAHOO.COM (Anna A. Slaczka)
Date: Fri, 26 Mar 10 06:20:01 -0700
Subject: Kalika-purana in e-form
In-Reply-To: <727264.93737.qm@web45615.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <161227089039.23782.6201318896588327882.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Dear Victoria,

I don't know about full text but if you haven't found anything yet and if you are really desperate, try Google Books. Large parts of the Kalika purana and its English translation are there.

Best regards,

Anna.

Dr. Anna A. Slaczka
Curator Indian Art
Rijksmuseum
Amsterdam, The Netherlands

--- On Sun, 3/21/10, Horacio Francisco Arganis Juarez <h.arganisjuarez at YAHOO.COM.MX> wrote:

> From: Horacio Francisco Arganis Juarez <h.arganisjuarez at YAHOO.COM.MX>
> Subject: Re: Kalika-purana in e-form
> To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk
> Date: Sunday, March 21, 2010, 3:57 PM
> Dear Madam:
> Could you fine persona said me what is e-form? I want to
> help your quest.
> Lic. M.A. Horacio Francisco Arganis Ju?rez
> Catedr?tico Investigador de la Universidad
> Internacional Euroamericana.
> Departamento de Filosof?a y Religi?n Comparada.
> Miembro del Instituto de Estudios Filos?ficos de Saltillo
> A. C.
> www.uie.edu.es
> 
> 
> --- El dom 21-mar-10, Viktoria Lyssenko <vglyssenko at YANDEX.RU>
> escribi?:
> 
> > De:: Viktoria Lyssenko <vglyssenko at YANDEX.RU>
> > Asunto: Kalika-purana in e-form
> > A: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk
> > Fecha: domingo, 21 de marzo de 2010, 14:44
> > Dear Colleagues,
> > One of my students needs an English translation of
> > Kalika-purana in e-form. Could anybody help?
> > Victoria Lysenko,
> > Research fellow,
> > Institute of philosophy,
> > Russian Academy of Sciences
> > 
> 
> 
> ? ? ? Encuentra las mejores recetas en
> Yahoo! Cocina.? ? ? ? ? ?
> ? ? ? ? ???
> http://mx.mujer.yahoo.com/cocina/
> 


      




From glhart at BERKELEY.EDU  Fri Mar 26 14:16:54 2010
From: glhart at BERKELEY.EDU (George Hart)
Date: Fri, 26 Mar 10 07:16:54 -0700
Subject: A misconception regarding the PDF format (Re: Text processing              in Unicode
In-Reply-To: <4BAC6581.6080807@univ-paris-diderot.fr>
Message-ID: <161227089042.23782.14969950059148387477.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

I have been playing around with unicode in both Tamil and Devanagari.  On the Mac (Snow Leopard), it is not possible to search pdf's in either writing system -- nor is it possible to use Acrobat to export such files into rtf or other editable format.  Using Nisus on the Mac, searching works perfectly for both writing systems, and Rajam's problem does not appear.  Many documents are available as pdf's, and it is quite important that they be searchable.  Unfortunately, that is not the case at this point with at least two important Indic writing systems.  George Hart




From jean-luc.chevillard at UNIV-PARIS-DIDEROT.FR  Fri Mar 26 07:42:57 2010
From: jean-luc.chevillard at UNIV-PARIS-DIDEROT.FR (Jean-Luc Chevillard)
Date: Fri, 26 Mar 10 08:42:57 +0100
Subject: A misconception regarding the PDF format (Re: Text processing in              Unicode
In-Reply-To: <A9FD92D3-8D5D-487F-B589-5CA536235F81@aol.com>
Message-ID: <161227089034.23782.2073222240275863162.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Dear S. Palaniappan,

I don't  think it is really appropriate
for you to begin to export to this Indological forum
the violent infighting which exists inside the Tamil community,
in which a minority strongly opposes the use of Unicode,
and wants to promote an ad hoc encoding,
in the Private User Area,
which will bring the Tamil Communicity back to the Stone Age of 
Pre-Unicode days.

Why do you not limit your search to HTML encoded pages?

The PDF format was not primarily invented for being a text storage format
and it has never been guaranteed that round-trip conversions is always 
possible
between PDF files and text files.

PDF files are "E-paper".

You might as well ask for the possibility of having round-trip conversions
between .DVI files and text files.

The reason why many pages on Tamil government sites
clumsily use PDF rather than HTML
is that a powerful lobby has been preventing rational behaviour,
sometimes claiming that the Unicode consortium
does not recognize the linguistic specificities of "Dravidian"
and sometimes acccusing the Unicode Consortium
of being the new "East India Company"
  :-(

The fact that pasting from a PDF file to a plain text file does not 
routinely work
can certainly NOT be described as a "major" defect of Unicode,
as some uninformed people have kept repeating
(and as a reason for the Tamil government not to use Unicode)

Sorry for being so blunt in my statements
but I have seen for several months
hundreds of misleading paranoid statements
in several Tamil mailing lists
against Unicode,
repeated AD NAUSEAM
and the idea that this is all going to start here in this academic list
is very unpleasant to say the least.

That Unicode has been invented is certainly a MIRACLE,
which could not be predicted 30 years ago.

If the Tamil communicity wanted to use their political clout in a useful 
way,
they could lobby for the grantha script to be quickly implemented inside 
the Unicode standard,
in order to make the miracle even more of a miracle.

That would allow for the easy reprint of all the Vaishnava Manipravalam 
commentaries.

That would be useful indeed.

Have a nice day!

-- Jean-Luc Chevillard


Le 3/26/2010 4:11 AM, Sudalaimuthu Palaniappan a ?crit :
> Dear Indologists,
>
> I am seeing some problems in text processing in Tamil texts created using Unicode fonts.
> Consider the following text in Project Madurai.
> http://www.projectmadurai.org/pm_etexts/pdf/pm0323.pdf
>
> According to the cover page, "This pdf file is based on Unicode with corresponding Latha font embedded in the file. Hence this file can be viewed and printed on all computer platforms: Windows, Macintosh and Unix without the need to have the font installed in your computer."
>
> When I searched the text for the string ???? (tAn2), I hit not only ???? but also ???? (tOn2) !
>
> Has anyone processing (searching, sorting) Unicode texts in Sanskrit or other Indian languages encountered any problems like the above?
>
> (Needless to say, when one copies the text from PDF and pastes in email, one gets messed up text like this. ??????? ?????? ????? ???? ????????? ????????? ????	?????? ???????? ????????? ???????????????. ?????? ???????????? ???????? ????? ??????????????.)
>
> (However, a draft report by an Expert Committee on Technology Standards for Indian Languages
> (http://egovstandards.gov.in/apex-review/egscontent.2009-06-10.5999916108/at_download/file) claims:
> ? All major operating systems, browsers, editors, word processors and other applications&  tools are supporting Unicode.
> ? It is possible to use Indian languages and scripts in the Unicode environment, which will resolve the compatibility issue.
> ? The documents created using Unicode may be searched very easily on the web.
> ? As Unicode is widely recognized all over the world and also supporting Indian languages, it will ease Localization applications including e-Governance application
> for all the constitutionally recognized Indian languages.
> ? Since Indian languages are also used in the other part of the world, it is possible to have Global data exchange.)
>
> Thanks in advance.
>
> Regards,
> Palaniappan
>
>    




From dbhattacharya2004 at YAHOO.CO.IN  Fri Mar 26 04:19:26 2010
From: dbhattacharya2004 at YAHOO.CO.IN (Dipak Bhattacharya)
Date: Fri, 26 Mar 10 09:49:26 +0530
Subject: Text processing in Unicode
In-Reply-To: <A9FD92D3-8D5D-487F-B589-5CA536235F81@aol.com>
Message-ID: <161227089027.23782.5485389300167361639.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

I can speak of two problems. The characters/signs are sometimes dispersed when saved in MSWord and a systematic replacement of the signs in the keyboard. The seond problem rises because of unintended bad programming during processing and can be removed by restarting.the computer. The first problem rises only when some editing is attempted in the MS Word format ie? not in the Indian script processor. I avoid editing such files in MSWord formaat.
Best
DB

--- On Fri, 26/3/10, Sudalaimuthu Palaniappan <palaniappa at AOL.COM> wrote:


From: Sudalaimuthu Palaniappan <palaniappa at AOL.COM>
Subject: Text processing in Unicode
To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk
Date: Friday, 26 March, 2010, 8:41 AM


Dear Indologists,

I am seeing some problems in text processing in Tamil texts created using Unicode fonts.
Consider the following text in Project Madurai.
http://www.projectmadurai.org/pm_etexts/pdf/pm0323.pdf

According to the cover page, "This pdf file is based on Unicode with corresponding Latha font embedded in the file. Hence this file can be viewed and printed on all computer platforms: Windows, Macintosh and Unix without the need to have the font installed in your computer."

When I searched the text for the string ???? (tAn2), I hit not only ???? but also ???? (tOn2) ! 

Has anyone processing (searching, sorting) Unicode texts in Sanskrit or other Indian languages encountered any problems like the above? 

(Needless to say, when one copies the text from PDF and pastes in email, one gets messed up text like this. ??????? ?????? ????? ???? ????????? ????????? ??????? ?????? ???????? ????????? ???????????????. ?????? ???????????? ???????? ????? ??????????????.)

(However, a draft report by an Expert Committee on Technology Standards for Indian Languages 
(http://egovstandards.gov.in/apex-review/egscontent.2009-06-10.5999916108/at_download/file) claims: 
? All major operating systems, browsers, editors, word processors and other applications & tools are supporting Unicode.
? It is possible to use Indian languages and scripts in the Unicode environment, which will resolve the compatibility issue.
? The documents created using Unicode may be searched very easily on the web. 
? As Unicode is widely recognized all over the world and also supporting Indian languages, it will ease Localization applications including e-Governance application
for all the constitutionally recognized Indian languages.
? Since Indian languages are also used in the other part of the world, it is possible to have Global data exchange.)

Thanks in advance.

Regards,
Palaniappan



      Your Mail works best with the New Yahoo Optimized IE8. Get it NOW! http://downloads.yahoo.com/in/internetexplorer/




From gruenen at SUB.UNI-GOETTINGEN.DE  Fri Mar 26 12:51:34 2010
From: gruenen at SUB.UNI-GOETTINGEN.DE (Gruenendahl, Reinhold)
Date: Fri, 26 Mar 10 13:51:34 +0100
Subject: GRETIL update #368
Message-ID: <161227089037.23782.10478190464700637731.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

GRETIL is pleased to be able to report the following addition(s) to its
collection:

Mahasahasrapramardani
<http://www.sub.uni-goettingen.de/ebene_1/fiindolo/gretil.htm#MahaSahpr> 


Mahasitavati-Dharani
<http://www.sub.uni-goettingen.de/ebene_1/fiindolo/gretil.htm#MasitavDh> 


Pratisarakalpadharani
<http://www.sub.uni-goettingen.de/ebene_1/fiindolo/gretil.htm#Pratisarakdh> 


Varataracan, M.: Collin Katai
<http://www.sub.uni-goettingen.de/ebene_1/fiindolo/gretil.htm#PM0323> 

 

__________________________________________________________________________ 

"GRETIL is intended as a cumulative register of the numerous download sites
for electronic texts in Indian languages." (from the 2001 "mission
statement") 

GRETIL - Goettingen Register of Electronic Texts in Indian Languages: 

http://www.sub.uni-goettingen.de/ebene_1/fiindolo/gretil.htm




From rajam at EARTHLINK.NET  Fri Mar 26 21:33:30 2010
From: rajam at EARTHLINK.NET (rajam)
Date: Fri, 26 Mar 10 14:33:30 -0700
Subject: A misconception regarding the PDF format (Re: Text processing              in Unicode
In-Reply-To: <CEA1AF9B-9D19-4503-9B04-D5D130DD8451@berkeley.edu>
Message-ID: <161227089046.23782.9838950454113335795.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

PDF documents are searchable--but we have to abide by the rules of  
the PDF technology or we should device our own technique to get  
around them.

We need to respect the technology (PDF or other) which has its own  
characteristics as any other software in the industry.

I agree with JLC that PDF files are "E-paper" and the format was not  
"primarily invented for being a text storage format and it has never  
been guaranteed that round-trip conversions is always possible  
between PDF files and text files."

I'd like to add that expecting something "post-inventional" won't  
help us unless we do something about it -- for example, tell the  
creators/inventors of the software what we want to see the software  
do for us now or in the future. That's why the IT world has "tech  
support" departments and "feedback" channels.

Most importantly, I feel that our wishes like this one (that PDF  
documents should "be searchable") would be more effective if we  
direct them to the IT industry (for example to Adobe or any PDF  
developers) rather than expressing them only here in an academic  
forum as if we are just complaining about technology.

--vsr
(<www.letsgrammar.org>)

On Mar 26, 2010, at 7:16 AM, George Hart wrote:

> I have been playing around with unicode in both Tamil and  
> Devanagari.  On the Mac (Snow Leopard), it is not possible to  
> search pdf's in either writing system -- nor is it possible to use  
> Acrobat to export such files into rtf or other editable format.   
> Using Nisus on the Mac, searching works perfectly for both writing  
> systems, and Rajam's problem does not appear.  Many documents are  
> available as pdf's, and it is quite important that they be  
> searchable.  Unfortunately, that is not the case at this point with  
> at least two important Indic writing systems.  George Hart




From rajam at EARTHLINK.NET  Fri Mar 26 23:27:56 2010
From: rajam at EARTHLINK.NET (rajam)
Date: Fri, 26 Mar 10 16:27:56 -0700
Subject: A misconception regarding the PDF format (Re: Text processing              in Unicode
In-Reply-To: <3BB96C3F-C1D3-472F-9378-4A077961BFED@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <161227089049.23782.12847356256100896007.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Just wanted to make sure that we understand the principle behind the  
acronym PDF ( "Printable Document Format").

So, if we want to have a searchable PDF, we should ask the powers  
that are in the IT industry to develop something like an  
"SPDF" ("Searchable Printable Document Format").

Hope you can understand what I mean.

Best,
--vsr
(<www.letsgrammar.org>)

On Mar 26, 2010, at 2:33 PM, rajam wrote:

> PDF documents are searchable--but we have to abide by the rules of  
> the PDF technology or we should device our own technique to get  
> around them.
>
> We need to respect the technology (PDF or other) which has its own  
> characteristics as any other software in the industry.
>
> I agree with JLC that PDF files are "E-paper" and the format was  
> not "primarily invented for being a text storage format and it has  
> never been guaranteed that round-trip conversions is always  
> possible between PDF files and text files."
>
> I'd like to add that expecting something "post-inventional" won't  
> help us unless we do something about it -- for example, tell the  
> creators/inventors of the software what we want to see the software  
> do for us now or in the future. That's why the IT world has "tech  
> support" departments and "feedback" channels.
>
> Most importantly, I feel that our wishes like this one (that PDF  
> documents should "be searchable") would be more effective if we  
> direct them to the IT industry (for example to Adobe or any PDF  
> developers) rather than expressing them only here in an academic  
> forum as if we are just complaining about technology.
>
> --vsr
> (<www.letsgrammar.org>)
>
> On Mar 26, 2010, at 7:16 AM, George Hart wrote:
>
>> I have been playing around with unicode in both Tamil and  
>> Devanagari.  On the Mac (Snow Leopard), it is not possible to  
>> search pdf's in either writing system -- nor is it possible to use  
>> Acrobat to export such files into rtf or other editable format.   
>> Using Nisus on the Mac, searching works perfectly for both writing  
>> systems, and Rajam's problem does not appear.  Many documents are  
>> available as pdf's, and it is quite important that they be  
>> searchable.  Unfortunately, that is not the case at this point  
>> with at least two important Indic writing systems.  George Hart




From rajam at EARTHLINK.NET  Sat Mar 27 03:08:23 2010
From: rajam at EARTHLINK.NET (rajam)
Date: Fri, 26 Mar 10 20:08:23 -0700
Subject: Definition of PDF (Re: A misconception regarding the PDF format              (Re: Text processing in Unicode)
In-Reply-To: <403D9AA1-02FA-4204-99C7-6B09CE4E3F76@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <161227089051.23782.181994220343776697.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

sorry, I meant to say "Portable Document Format" not "Printable  
Document Format" as the expansion of PDF. Please make a note.

Thanks,
--vsr


On Mar 26, 2010, at 4:27 PM, rajam wrote:

> Just wanted to make sure that we understand the principle behind  
> the acronym PDF ( "Printable Document Format").
>
> So, if we want to have a searchable PDF, we should ask the powers  
> that are in the IT industry to develop something like an  
> "SPDF" ("Searchable Printable Document Format").
>
> Hope you can understand what I mean.
>
> Best,
> --vsr
> (<www.letsgrammar.org>)
>
> On Mar 26, 2010, at 2:33 PM, rajam wrote:
>
>> PDF documents are searchable--but we have to abide by the rules of  
>> the PDF technology or we should device our own technique to get  
>> around them.
>>
>> We need to respect the technology (PDF or other) which has its own  
>> characteristics as any other software in the industry.
>>
>> I agree with JLC that PDF files are "E-paper" and the format was  
>> not "primarily invented for being a text storage format and it has  
>> never been guaranteed that round-trip conversions is always  
>> possible between PDF files and text files."
>>
>> I'd like to add that expecting something "post-inventional" won't  
>> help us unless we do something about it -- for example, tell the  
>> creators/inventors of the software what we want to see the  
>> software do for us now or in the future. That's why the IT world  
>> has "tech support" departments and "feedback" channels.
>>
>> Most importantly, I feel that our wishes like this one (that PDF  
>> documents should "be searchable") would be more effective if we  
>> direct them to the IT industry (for example to Adobe or any PDF  
>> developers) rather than expressing them only here in an academic  
>> forum as if we are just complaining about technology.
>>
>> --vsr
>> (<www.letsgrammar.org>)
>>
>> On Mar 26, 2010, at 7:16 AM, George Hart wrote:
>>
>>> I have been playing around with unicode in both Tamil and  
>>> Devanagari.  On the Mac (Snow Leopard), it is not possible to  
>>> search pdf's in either writing system -- nor is it possible to  
>>> use Acrobat to export such files into rtf or other editable  
>>> format.  Using Nisus on the Mac, searching works perfectly for  
>>> both writing systems, and Rajam's problem does not appear.  Many  
>>> documents are available as pdf's, and it is quite important that  
>>> they be searchable.  Unfortunately, that is not the case at this  
>>> point with at least two important Indic writing systems.  George  
>>> Hart




From jean-luc.chevillard at UNIV-PARIS-DIDEROT.FR  Fri Mar 26 21:27:57 2010
From: jean-luc.chevillard at UNIV-PARIS-DIDEROT.FR (Jean-Luc Chevillard)
Date: Fri, 26 Mar 10 22:27:57 +0100
Subject: A misconception regarding the PDF format (Re: Text processing              in Unicode
In-Reply-To: <CEA1AF9B-9D19-4503-9B04-D5D130DD8451@berkeley.edu>
Message-ID: <161227089044.23782.12128085791434259988.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Dear George,

you write "Many documents are available as pdf's, and it is quite 
important that they be searchable."

It is not very clear (to me) to whom this YOUR QUERY is adressed.

Is it ADRESSED to the millions of  users (on this planet) who have 
created those (printable) PDF-s
(and who may also have simultaneously created searchable HTML or XML files)?

Are you telling them to RESTRAIN FROM creating PDF-s as long as PDFs are 
not all GOOGLE-searchable?
(although they may have created those PDFs simply for the purpose of 
printing)

OR is your message adressed to the creators of the Acrobat/PDF format?
[it is not absolutely clear to me whether the ADOBE company owns the 
definition of the format]

Do you want to the creators of the PDF format to set as a future goal
[for the future releases of the PDF format]
that there should be an UNFAILING possibility to make roundtrips
between TEXT and PDF formats ?

Do you want the Unicode Consortium
to suspend its existence until everybody on the planet
is able to see how UNCREDIBLY useful they have been?

Please clarify.

-- Jean-Luc

Post-Scriptum:
I have been trying to express this jokingly
[no offense is meant to anyone!],
but the truth is that I am really WORRIED to see the word "E-governance"
making its appearance on an academic list
(SEE the (almost) last line 
<http://listserv.liv.ac.uk/cgi-bin/wa?A2=ind1003&L=indology&D=1&O=D&F=P&P=14377>).



Le 3/26/2010 3:16 PM, George Hart a ?crit :
> I have been playing around with unicode in both Tamil and Devanagari.  On the Mac (Snow Leopard), it is not possible to search pdf's in either writing system -- nor is it possible to use Acrobat to export such files into rtf or other editable format.  Using Nisus on the Mac, searching works perfectly for both writing systems, and Rajam's problem does not appear.  Many documents are available as pdf's, and it is quite important that they be searchable.  Unfortunately, that is not the case at this point with at least two important Indic writing systems.  George Hart
>    




From mmdesh at UMICH.EDU  Sat Mar 27 14:17:08 2010
From: mmdesh at UMICH.EDU (Deshpande, Madhav)
Date: Sat, 27 Mar 10 10:17:08 -0400
Subject: Prayogaparijata of Nrsimha
Message-ID: <161227089054.23782.4192524362114930398.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Dear Colleagues,

Does anyone have access to a digital copy of the Prayogaparijata of Nrsirmha?  I believe I saw a pothi print copy in Pune with the Late Kinjavadekar Shastri, but I see no library entries for it on the web.  I see references to it in manuscript catalogues.  But any digital version?

Madhav

Madhav M. Deshpande
Professor of Sanskrit and Linguistics
Department of Asian Languages and Cultures
202 South Thayer Street, Suite 6111
The University of Michigan
Ann Arbor, Michigan 48104-1608, USA
________________________________________
From: Indology [INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Jonathan Silk [kauzeya at GMAIL.COM]
Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2010 2:33 PM
To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk
Subject: Re: Berlin 1881

Will Sweetman has pointed me to: :
http://www.archive.org/details/verhandlungende03unkngoog

It certainly appears  from p 8 here that Kern was not there (although Speyer
was--this was from his days in Amsterdam--he came to Leiden only after
Kern's death, I believe). It is somewhat awe-inspiring to read the list of
attendees...

Thanks so much--I think this answers my immediate question. Though now I
wonder why Kern was not there--he is mentioned in the minutes as being one
of the people who should organize the next meeting were it to be held in
Leiden.

thanks so much!!  jonathan

On Wed, Mar 24, 2010 at 4:53 PM, Jonathan Silk <kauzeya at gmail.com> wrote:

> Friends,
>
> I wonder if someone who has the proceedings of the Fifth International
> Congress of Orientalists held in Berlin in 1881 on his or her bed-side table
> (!) would be willing to look up something for me (it appears that while our
> library has the volumes for the 4th and 6th, we don't have the 5th). Is
> there  a list or index of attendees/participants? I know that the Japanese
> scholar Bunyiu Nanjio (Bunyu Nanjo) attended, along with his teacher Max
> M?ller. What I am interested to know is if Hendrik Kern was also there. I
> think he must have been, but at least the bibliography I have does not list
> a publication of his lecture (as it does for example for his contribution to
> the 6th meeting of the same congress). I am trying to find out if the two,
> Nanjo and Kern, might have met there. (Sadly, the correspondence files of
> both respective scholars were destroyed, so I can't track any letters they
> would have exchanged.)
>
> With best thanks in advance, Jonathan
>
> --
> J. Silk
> Instituut Kern / Universiteit Leiden
> Postbus 9515
> 2300 RA Leiden
> Netherlands
>



--
J. Silk
Instituut Kern / Universiteit Leiden
Postbus 9515
2300 RA Leiden
Netherlands




From palaniappa at AOL.COM  Sun Mar 28 01:16:07 2010
From: palaniappa at AOL.COM (Sudalaimuthu Palaniappan)
Date: Sat, 27 Mar 10 20:16:07 -0500
Subject: A misconception regarding the PDF format (Re: Text processing              in Unicode
In-Reply-To: <CEA1AF9B-9D19-4503-9B04-D5D130DD8451@berkeley.edu>
Message-ID: <161227089056.23782.15898548717396147803.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Dear George,

I agree with you wholeheartedly that PDF documents in Tamil, Sanskrit, and other Indian languages be searchable. 

Whatever might have been the origin of PDF, today across all levels of government and business in US, PDFs in English are used to store textual materials. Most solicitations, RFPs, and RFQs, and supporting documents are posted and stored as PDFs. These are used by the responding businesses to develop proposals. Without the ability to search these PDFs, many business development and sales functions in private sector will slow down significantly. Almost inevitably, text from these PDFs are copied and pasted into Word to create new Word dand PDF documents such as proposals. Business developers do it routinely. The text from such PDFs are also copied and inserted in email correspondence between business firms who are team members responding to an RFP. It is done all the time. Portability of data between PDFs and other applications is a must these days. PDF, Word, and email do not function as silos in government and business. Here is a case study of Nuance implementation at US Department of Defense,  http://WWW.NUANCE.COM/imaging/pdf/cs_PDF_DefenseContract.pdf . The following text gas been copied and pasted from the PDF document.

"To streamline their information workflows, one of the major U.S. DoD agencies looked to the power of PDF. They needed an affordable tool that would allow them to turn paper into fully searchable digital documents that could be easily re-purposed, secured and archived. They also needed the ability to work with static PDF forms (paper forms which have been scanned) and make them fillable as well as annotate and edit PDF documents if necessary." 

Calling PDF 'E-Paper' is not accurate any more in the real world.

Of course, I reached the PDF document using Google search. 

Regards,
Palaniappan


On Mar 26, 2010, at 9:16 AM, George Hart wrote:

> I have been playing around with unicode in both Tamil and Devanagari.  On the Mac (Snow Leopard), it is not possible to search pdf's in either writing system -- nor is it possible to use Acrobat to export such files into rtf or other editable format.  Using Nisus on the Mac, searching works perfectly for both writing systems, and Rajam's problem does not appear.  Many documents are available as pdf's, and it is quite important that they be searchable.  Unfortunately, that is not the case at this point with at least two important Indic writing systems.  George Hart=




From wujastyk at GMAIL.COM  Sun Mar 28 12:42:46 2010
From: wujastyk at GMAIL.COM (Dominik Wujastyk)
Date: Sun, 28 Mar 10 14:42:46 +0200
Subject: A misconception regarding the PDF format (Re: Text processing              in Unicode
In-Reply-To: <4BAD26DD.7070304@univ-paris-diderot.fr>
Message-ID: <161227089059.23782.90732941252960487.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Very impressionistically - I haven't done any real test testing - my
experience is that if I use Unicode for my source file, then I get a Unicode
PDF.  So I can cut-and-paste and get all the diacritics.  And if I do "save
as" plain text from PDF, I get a plain text file that's correctly Unicode
too.

I'm using XeTeX.

Best,
Dominik

PS Zdenek Wagner has done successful but still experimental work on getting
TeX + Velthuis Devnag => searchable Devanagari PDFs.
Cf. http://sarovar.org/projects/devnag/




From rajam at EARTHLINK.NET  Sun Mar 28 23:19:08 2010
From: rajam at EARTHLINK.NET (rajam)
Date: Sun, 28 Mar 10 16:19:08 -0700
Subject: Gandhari Unicode
Message-ID: <161227089061.23782.389227669167961940.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Many of us may have legacy texts encoded in a home-grown font from  
the pre-Web era. And, I 'm sure you (just like me) have started to  
put them in Unicode.

For my part, I've started converting my legacy texts (in  
transliteration) to Gandhari Unicode, which I find quite easy to use.  
I downloaded it from the "Early Buddhist Manuscript Project" page (U  
of Washington) at:
http://www.ebmp.org/p_dwnlds.php . The installation instructions are  
easy and the installation process is smooth. Keyboarding is easy too.

(I heard that Gentium is an excellent font as well for rendering  
transliterated texts.)

For Tamil, I use the built-in Unicode font that comes with the  
respective operating system (Mac or PC).

Although a bit tedious and slow due to the heavy volume, I have been  
able to write macros and convert my legacy texts to Gandhari Unicode  
and Tamil Unicode.

Once you have your texts in Unicode, it's easy to use them as you  
like. They interface well with modern technology -- HTML/XML,  
JavaScript, PHP, PDF, ... .  (Also, it should be easy to convert from  
one typeface to another within Unicode.)

You can see some samples at my site: http://letsgrammar.org/ 
proto.html (click on the links for Project 2 and Project 3 and go  
from there)

Regards,
V.S. Rajam
(<www.letsgrammar.org>)




From mahesrajpant at MSN.COM  Mon Mar 29 04:03:02 2010
From: mahesrajpant at MSN.COM (Mahes Raj Pant)
Date: Mon, 29 Mar 10 06:03:02 +0200
Subject: Feminine of vipra
Message-ID: <161227089063.23782.11328319457806122859.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Dear List members

Though both Monier-Williams and Macdonell have the entry of viprA as the feminine of vipra
in their respective dictionaries, I do not remember its usage in literature. Could you enlighten me in this matter?

I look forward to hearing you.

Sincerely yours

Mahes Raj Pant
 		 	   		  
_________________________________________________________________
Hotmail: Powerful Free email with security by Microsoft.
https://signup.live.com/signup.aspx?id=60969




From dominic.goodall at GMAIL.COM  Mon Mar 29 04:31:29 2010
From: dominic.goodall at GMAIL.COM (Dominic Goodall)
Date: Mon, 29 Mar 10 10:01:29 +0530
Subject: Feminine of vipra
In-Reply-To: <COL111-W36ED9CC9B95B03730700B4C5200@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <161227089065.23782.3163046671491529438.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

It seems to occur in accounts of miscegenation, for example this one  
from the end of the Vaikhaanasag.rhyasuutra:

amba.s.thaad vipraayaa.m naavika.h, samudrapa.nyamatsyajiivii  
samudrala"nghanaa.m naava.m plaavayati.

etc.

Also Suprabhedaagama, kriyaapaada 2:60ab, this time with a different  
job-description:

amba.s.thasya tu vipraayaa.m jaato vaapakav.rttika.h|


Dominic Goodall

On 29 Mar 2010, at 09:33, Mahes Raj Pant wrote:

> Dear List members
>
> Though both Monier-Williams and Macdonell have the entry of viprA as  
> the feminine of vipra
> in their respective dictionaries, I do not remember its usage in  
> literature. Could you enlighten me in this matter?
>
> I look forward to hearing you.
>
> Sincerely yours
>
> Mahes Raj Pant
> 		 	   		
> _________________________________________________________________
> Hotmail: Powerful Free email with security by Microsoft.
> https://signup.live.com/signup.aspx?id=60969




From andrew.ollett at LING-PHIL.OX.AC.UK  Mon Mar 29 14:44:20 2010
From: andrew.ollett at LING-PHIL.OX.AC.UK (Andrew Ollett)
Date: Mon, 29 Mar 10 10:44:20 -0400
Subject: Feminine of vipra
In-Reply-To: <E412EEA1-E684-4E86-B40F-473DB8F00F34@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <161227089067.23782.6851122075439980087.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

in pr?k?tapi?gala 1.64 and g?th?lak?a?a 32, vipp? is named a variety of the
?ry?/g?th? meter (alongside to khatti??, vais?, and sudd?/suddi??); the
editors (vyas and velankar respectively) have glossed it as vipr?.

On Mon, Mar 29, 2010 at 12:31 AM, Dominic Goodall <dominic.goodall at gmail.com
> wrote:

> It seems to occur in accounts of miscegenation, for example this one from
> the end of the Vaikhaanasag.rhyasuutra:
>
> amba.s.thaad vipraayaa.m naavika.h, samudrapa.nyamatsyajiivii
> samudrala"nghanaa.m naava.m plaavayati.
>
> etc.
>
> Also Suprabhedaagama, kriyaapaada 2:60ab, this time with a different
> job-description:
>
> amba.s.thasya tu vipraayaa.m jaato vaapakav.rttika.h|
>
>
> Dominic Goodall
>
>
> On 29 Mar 2010, at 09:33, Mahes Raj Pant wrote:
>
>  Dear List members
>>
>> Though both Monier-Williams and Macdonell have the entry of viprA as the
>> feminine of vipra
>> in their respective dictionaries, I do not remember its usage in
>> literature. Could you enlighten me in this matter?
>>
>> I look forward to hearing you.
>>
>> Sincerely yours
>>
>> Mahes Raj Pant
>>
>> _________________________________________________________________
>> Hotmail: Powerful Free email with security by Microsoft.
>> https://signup.live.com/signup.aspx?id=60969
>>
>




From kiepue at T-ONLINE.DE  Wed Mar 31 05:47:20 2010
From: kiepue at T-ONLINE.DE (=?utf-8?Q?petra_kieffer-P=C3=BClz?=)
Date: Wed, 31 Mar 10 07:47:20 +0200
Subject: sa=?UTF-8?Q?=C3=B1=C3=B1=C4=81_nimitta=E1=B9=83_katt=C4=81_parim_=C4=81=E1=B9=87a=E1=B9=83_payojana=E1=B9=83?=
Message-ID: <161227089070.23782.11905415740827152538.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Dear All,

first thanks to all who helped me with the upodgh?ta? verse.

I am now in search of a Sanskrit parallel for the verse  from the  
Vajirabuddhi??k? cited below, or for a list of the five terms  
sa??? nimitta? katt? parim??a? payojana?. The only source  
for these five terms up to now is Candrak?rti (see Steinkellner,  
"Remarks on Tantristic Hermeneutics", Csoma de K?r?s Memorial  
Symposium, 1978), where they come under the first of the seven  
ala?k?ras, i.e. upodghata?, which form a group of exegetical  
tools used in interpreting Tantras.

verse from Vjb 1,17-18

sa??? nimitta? katt? ca parim??a? payojana?
sabb?gamassa pubbeva vattabba? vattu? icchat? ti

the meaning of the terms in Vjb is as follows:

sa??? = name of the text
nimitta? = motive for writing the text
katt? = author
parim??a? = extent, length of the text
payojana? =  purpose of the text


According to a v.l. in Vjb this verse is said for every Tantra  
(pavutt? sabbatant?na?)

Every hint is welcome,
Petra



**************
Dr. Petra Kieffer-P?lz
Wilhelm-K?lz-Str. 2
99423 Weimar
Germany
Tel. 03643/770447
kiepue at t-online.de




From dbhattacharya2004 at YAHOO.CO.IN  Wed Mar 31 11:46:24 2010
From: dbhattacharya2004 at YAHOO.CO.IN (Dipak Bhattacharya)
Date: Wed, 31 Mar 10 17:16:24 +0530
Subject: sa=?utf-8?Q?=C3=B1=C3=B1=C4=81_nimitta=E1=B9=83_katt=C4=81_parim_=C4=81=E1=B9=87a_=E1=B9=83_payojana=E1=B9=83?=
In-Reply-To: <55DBECA0-37E4-4A86-AB87-0486AB6E3484@t-online.de>
Message-ID: <161227089072.23782.884775760284223381.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Literally 
?Name, occasion, author, extent, application ? should be told at the outset for every ?gama by one desirous of stating.?
It seems to be a general statement on oral the recounting (composition?) of a scripture that was common. More details of the context are necessary for a definite idea.
Best 
DB
--- On Wed, 31/3/10, petra kieffer-P?lz <kiepue at T-ONLINE.DE> wrote:


From: petra kieffer-P?lz <kiepue at T-ONLINE.DE>
Subject: sa??? nimitta? katt? parim ??a? payojana?
To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk
Date: Wednesday, 31 March, 2010, 11:17 AM


Dear All,

first thanks to all who helped me with the upodgh?ta? verse.

I am now in search of a Sanskrit parallel for the verse? from the Vajirabuddhi??k? cited below, or for a list of the five terms sa??? nimitta? katt? parim??a? payojana?. The only source for these five terms up to now is Candrak?rti (see Steinkellner, "Remarks on Tantristic Hermeneutics", Csoma de K?r?s Memorial Symposium, 1978), where they come under the first of the seven ala?k?ras, i.e. upodghata?, which form a group of exegetical tools used in interpreting Tantras.

verse from Vjb 1,17-18

sa??? nimitta? katt? ca parim??a? payojana?
sabb?gamassa pubbeva vattabba? vattu? icchat? ti

the meaning of the terms in Vjb is as follows:

sa??? = name of the text
nimitta? = motive for writing the text
katt? = author
parim??a? = extent, length of the text
payojana? =? purpose of the text


According to a v.l. in Vjb this verse is said for every Tantra (pavutt? sabbatant?na?)

Every hint is welcome,
Petra



**************
Dr. Petra Kieffer-P?lz
Wilhelm-K?lz-Str. 2
99423 Weimar
Germany
Tel. 03643/770447
kiepue at t-online.de



      Your Mail works best with the New Yahoo Optimized IE8. Get it NOW! http://downloads.yahoo.com/in/internetexplorer/




From mrinalkaul81 at GMAIL.COM  Wed Mar 31 23:05:34 2010
From: mrinalkaul81 at GMAIL.COM (Mrinal Kaul)
Date: Wed, 31 Mar 10 19:05:34 -0400
Subject: "da=?utf-8?Q?=E1=B9=87=E1=B8=8Da",_"halanta",_"vir_=C4=81ma",_"p=C5=ABr=E1=B9=87a-vir=C4=81ma"_and__"ardha-vir=C4=81ma"?=
Message-ID: <161227089074.23782.9322565805307348091.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Dear Colleagues,

Can someone make the distinction among the following terms clear with some more historical elucidations in the context of Sanskrit language? What has been the practice as far as Sanskrit (and not Hindi) is concerned and how it it different from Hindi construction? Is "vir?ma" also used in Hindi language as synonymous to "da??a" ? And as far as Sanskrit language is concerned if "vir?ma" or "da??a" (?) is synonymous to "halanta" then why do we use "da??a" after putting the "halanta" to the last consonant of the word in a sentence? I think I am in a real confusion. I would really appreciate if someone could make a distinction amongst the following terms;

 "da??a", "halanta", "vir?ma", "p?r?a-vir?ma" and "ardha-vir?ma" 


Thank you very much in advance.

Yours sincerely,

Mrinal Kaul