From cardonagj at EARTHLINK.NET  Fri Jan  1 11:15:16 2010
From: cardonagj at EARTHLINK.NET (George Cardona)
Date: Fri, 01 Jan 10 06:15:16 -0500
Subject: Well, mzybe not so cool
Message-ID: <161227088046.23782.1942556294203032068.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

But there is also a 'Sanskrit' selection!  Happy new year.  GC


-----Original Message-----
>From: Dominik Wujastyk <wujastyk at GMAIL.COM>
>Sent: Jan 1, 2010 5:41 AM
>To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk
>Subject: Re: Well, mzybe not so cool
>
>It's billed as "Hindi", after all.
>
>Happy New Year
>
>2009/12/31 George Thompson <gthomgt at comcast.net>
>
>> Dear List,
>>
>> I went to this google transliteration site and started to type in the first
>> lines of the Rigveda, and immedately I ran into problems. How does one
>> generate something like  Rtvijam?   And  how does one insert Vedic accent?
>>
>> This thing seems no better than earlier transliteration programs as far as
>> I can see.
>>
>> George Thompson
>>
>> Dipak Bhattacharya wrote:
>>
>>  It works. Are the aksharas from the Unicode? Baraha? and iTranslator?do
>>> the same thing with a Unicode font. Still, many thanks for the link. Best
>>> wishes for a brilliant 2010 for all!
>>> DB
>>>
>>> --- On Thu, 24/12/09, Jonathan Silk <kauzeya at GMAIL.COM> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> From: Jonathan Silk <kauzeya at GMAIL.COM>
>>> Subject: well, rather cool, I think
>>> To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk
>>> Date: Thursday, 24 December, 2009, 1:39 AM
>>>
>>>
>>> try this folks
>>>
>>> http://www.google.com/transliterate/
>>>
>>> check the pull down menu on the left side.
>>>
>>> (I learned of this thanks to the incredible *
>>> http://www.indologica.de/drupal/)* <http://www.indologica.de/drupal/%29*>
>>>
>>>
>>




From jhakgirish at YAHOO.COM  Fri Jan  1 14:45:23 2010
From: jhakgirish at YAHOO.COM (girish jha)
Date: Fri, 01 Jan 10 06:45:23 -0800
Subject: NAVAVARSAM MADHUMAYAM
Message-ID: <161227088057.23782.17447085076152346809.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

???????????????????????????????????????? Navavarsam 2010
Dear??Indologists,
Pranamami.?
Nisargen???ito? dvigun?a?i?irah? ?pa?cimamarut
Tus??r?p?tena ?stimitataragh?s? ?hi ?vasudh?.
Kr?s?iks?etre ?loko ?lasati ?yavagodh?masubhage
Pracand??e ???tepi ?dhvanati ?navavars?am? ?madhumayam?.//1//
Him?drir ?dev?tm??? pramuditaman? ??j?vanicitah?
Samudro?py? utt?lah?? kusumitataruh?? paks?imukharah?.
Prasann? ?k?lind?? surajananad?? pun?yasalil?
Navam? ??g?tam? ?ramyam? dhvanati? navavars?am?? madhumayam?.//2//.
Please? accept ?my ?very ?best ?wishes? for a happy,prosperous ?and? spiritual? New? Year? 2010.
Sincerely
GIRISH K. JHA
DEPT OF SANSKRIT,PATNA UNIVERSITY,PATNA,INDIA
TEL:+91? 9931490815


      




From mkapstei at UCHICAGO.EDU  Fri Jan  1 14:17:25 2010
From: mkapstei at UCHICAGO.EDU (mkapstei at UCHICAGO.EDU)
Date: Fri, 01 Jan 10 08:17:25 -0600
Subject: Sanskrit script?
In-Reply-To: <552146.13579.qm@web8608.mail.in.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <161227088053.23782.12542069026816046756.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Ranjana ("Lan tsha" in Tibetan), used as an ornamental script
in Nepal and perhaps to some extent elsewhere in the north,
may qualify as a dedicated Sanskrit script. I am
not familiar, at least, with its use for other
languages.

Matthew T. Kapstein
Numata Visiting Professor of Buddhist Studies
The University of Chicago Divinity School

Directeur d'?tudes
Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes, Paris




From wujastyk at GMAIL.COM  Fri Jan  1 10:41:55 2010
From: wujastyk at GMAIL.COM (Dominik Wujastyk)
Date: Fri, 01 Jan 10 11:41:55 +0100
Subject: Well, mzybe not so cool
In-Reply-To: <4B3BE3EC.60304@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <161227088044.23782.8350115987683565645.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

It's billed as "Hindi", after all.

Happy New Year

2009/12/31 George Thompson <gthomgt at comcast.net>

> Dear List,
>
> I went to this google transliteration site and started to type in the first
> lines of the Rigveda, and immedately I ran into problems. How does one
> generate something like  Rtvijam?   And  how does one insert Vedic accent?
>
> This thing seems no better than earlier transliteration programs as far as
> I can see.
>
> George Thompson
>
> Dipak Bhattacharya wrote:
>
>  It works. Are the aksharas from the Unicode? Baraha? and iTranslator?do
>> the same thing with a Unicode font. Still, many thanks for the link. Best
>> wishes for a brilliant 2010 for all!
>> DB
>>
>> --- On Thu, 24/12/09, Jonathan Silk <kauzeya at GMAIL.COM> wrote:
>>
>>
>> From: Jonathan Silk <kauzeya at GMAIL.COM>
>> Subject: well, rather cool, I think
>> To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk
>> Date: Thursday, 24 December, 2009, 1:39 AM
>>
>>
>> try this folks
>>
>> http://www.google.com/transliterate/
>>
>> check the pull down menu on the left side.
>>
>> (I learned of this thanks to the incredible *
>> http://www.indologica.de/drupal/)* <http://www.indologica.de/drupal/%29*>
>>
>>
>




From wujastyk at GMAIL.COM  Fri Jan  1 11:18:07 2010
From: wujastyk at GMAIL.COM (Dominik Wujastyk)
Date: Fri, 01 Jan 10 12:18:07 +0100
Subject: Well, mzybe not so cool
In-Reply-To: <2926644.1262344516695.JavaMail.root@elwamui-cypress.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <161227088048.23782.4152195964923124552.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

oh, I didn't realize.  Ah, well.  Entwicklung muss sein.




From dbhattacharya2004 at YAHOO.CO.IN  Fri Jan  1 13:14:21 2010
From: dbhattacharya2004 at YAHOO.CO.IN (Dipak Bhattacharya)
Date: Fri, 01 Jan 10 18:44:21 +0530
Subject: Well, mzybe not so cool: Sanskrit script?
In-Reply-To: <d1c0c7391001010241y711e7e02ob1ac434f07f2e8a6@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <161227088051.23782.4655233492656629038.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Did Sanskrit ever have a 'dedicated' script in the North??Grantha belongs to the South. A few other dedicated scripts eg., Nadinagari,?were developed in the Decaan. But none became popular in the nineteenth century. Oriya has ever been?as good for Oriya as for Sanskrit. So is Devnagari for Hindi and Sanskrit, Count Bengali, Telugu and Malayalam and Kannad too among others. And Gujarati, Newari, the?Brahmi and post-Brahmi script?and others I miss.??Similar to Latin, French, English,post-Kemal Turkish and post-war German? A situation ripe for Lewis Carroll. 
DB

--- On Fri, 1/1/10, Dominik Wujastyk <wujastyk at GMAIL.COM> wrote:


From: Dominik Wujastyk <wujastyk at GMAIL.COM>
Subject: Re: Well, mzybe not so cool
To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk
Date: Friday, 1 January, 2010, 4:11 PM


It's billed as "Hindi", after all.

Happy New Year

2009/12/31 George Thompson <gthomgt at comcast.net>

> Dear List,
>
> I went to this google transliteration site and started to type in the first
> lines of the Rigveda, and immedately I ran into problems. How does one
> generate something like? Rtvijam????And? how does one insert Vedic accent?
>
> This thing seems no better than earlier transliteration programs as far as
> I can see.
>
> George Thompson
>
> Dipak Bhattacharya wrote:
>
>? It works. Are the aksharas from the Unicode? Baraha? and iTranslator?do
>> the same thing with a Unicode font. Still, many thanks for the link. Best
>> wishes for a brilliant 2010 for all!
>> DB
>>
>> --- On Thu, 24/12/09, Jonathan Silk <kauzeya at GMAIL.COM> wrote:
>>
>>
>> From: Jonathan Silk <kauzeya at GMAIL.COM>
>> Subject: well, rather cool, I think
>> To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk
>> Date: Thursday, 24 December, 2009, 1:39 AM
>>
>>
>> try this folks
>>
>> http://www.google.com/transliterate/
>>
>> check the pull down menu on the left side.
>>
>> (I learned of this thanks to the incredible *
>> http://www.indologica.de/drupal/)* <http://www.indologica.de/drupal/%29*>
>>
>>
>



      The INTERNET now has a personality. YOURS! See your Yahoo! Homepage. http://in.yahoo.com/




From dbhattacharya2004 at YAHOO.CO.IN  Fri Jan  1 14:34:58 2010
From: dbhattacharya2004 at YAHOO.CO.IN (Dipak Bhattacharya)
Date: Fri, 01 Jan 10 20:04:58 +0530
Subject: Sanskrit script?
In-Reply-To: <20100101081725.CHN03679@m4500-02.uchicago.edu>
Message-ID: <161227088055.23782.17998855493662459093.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Interesting! I did not know of the use of Lan-tsha outside Nepal. P.C.Bagchi reported some Chinese examples too, now kept with the library here in published form. But their use too in north India is not known to me. Anyway, thanks for reminding of the Lan-tsha. It is not impossible that I missed a few others too. But the distinction between the Hindi script and the Sanskrit still eludes. Best wishes! Has the discussion gone too far? 
DB
Visva Bharati University, Santiniketan?

--- On Fri, 1/1/10, mkapstei at UCHICAGO.EDU <mkapstei at UCHICAGO.EDU> wrote:


From: mkapstei at UCHICAGO.EDU <mkapstei at UCHICAGO.EDU>
Subject: Sanskrit script?
To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk
Date: Friday, 1 January, 2010, 7:47 PM


Ranjana ("Lan tsha" in Tibetan), used as an ornamental script
in Nepal and perhaps to some extent elsewhere in the north,
may qualify as a dedicated Sanskrit script. I am
not familiar, at least, with its use for other
languages.

Matthew T. Kapstein
Numata Visiting Professor of Buddhist Studies
The University of Chicago Divinity School

Directeur d'?tudes
Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes, Paris



      The INTERNET now has a personality. YOURS! See your Yahoo! Homepage. http://in.yahoo.com/




From fritsstaal at BERKELEY.EDU  Sat Jan  2 11:36:04 2010
From: fritsstaal at BERKELEY.EDU (FRITS STAAL)
Date: Sat, 02 Jan 10 03:36:04 -0800
Subject: NAVAVARSAM MADHUMAYAM
In-Reply-To: <355098.97876.qm@web57707.mail.re3.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <161227088059.23782.7464657083881314979.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Dear Dr. Jha,

With many thanks for your good wishes I send you hereby my very  best 
wishes  for a happy and prosperous New Year  2010.

yours
> ???????????????????????????????????????? Navavarsam 2010
> Dear??Indologists,
> Pranamami.?
> Nisargen???ito? dvigun?a?i?irah? ?pa?cimamarut
> Tus??r?p?tena ?stimitataragh?s? ?hi ?vasudh?.
> Kr?s?iks?etre ?loko ?lasati ?yavagodh?masubhage
> Pracand??e ???tepi ?dhvanati ?navavars?am? ?madhumayam?.//1//
> Him?drir ?dev?tm??? pramuditaman? ??j?vanicitah?
> Samudro?py? utt?lah?? kusumitataruh?? paks?imukharah?.
> Prasann? ?k?lind?? surajananad?? pun?yasalil?
> Navam? ??g?tam? ?ramyam? dhvanati? navavars?am?? madhumayam?.//2//.
> Please? accept ?my ?very ?best ?wishes? for a happy,prosperous ?and?
> spiritual? New? Year? 2010.
> Sincerely
> GIRISH K. JHA
> DEPT OF SANSKRIT,PATNA UNIVERSITY,PATNA,INDIA
> TEL:+91? 9931490815
>
>
>
>


Frits Staal

http://philosophy.berkeley.edu/staal




From witzel at FAS.HARVARD.EDU  Sun Jan  3 03:37:34 2010
From: witzel at FAS.HARVARD.EDU (Michael Witzel)
Date: Sat, 02 Jan 10 22:37:34 -0500
Subject: new EJVS: R. Stuhrmann: Dream interpretation in Old India and              Greece
Message-ID: <161227088061.23782.11953560097735532911.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Dear Colleagues,

we are happy to inform you of a new issue of EJVS, vol. 16-2,
on the interpretation of dreams in Old India and Greece:


Die Wurzeln der Traumdeutung in Indien und Griechenland -- Eine  
vergleichende Betrachtung

(The roots of the interpretation of dreams in India and Greece -- a  
comparative investigation)

										   by Rainer Stuhrmann

								    			     (with a detailed  English Summary)

see:

Electronic Journal of Vedic Studies, vol. 16-2 (Dec. 2009)
<http://www.ejvs.laurasianacademy.com/>


A Happy New Year!

Michael


============
Michael Witzel
witzel at fas.harvard.edu
<www.fas.harvard.edu/~witzel/mwpage.htm>

Dept. of Sanskrit & Indian Studies, Harvard University
1 Bow Street,
Cambridge MA 02138, USA

phone: 1- 617 - 495 3295 (voice & messages), 496 8570, fax 617 - 496  
8571;
my direct line:  617- 496 2990




From athr at LOC.GOV  Mon Jan  4 22:13:55 2010
From: athr at LOC.GOV (Allen W Thrasher)
Date: Mon, 04 Jan 10 17:13:55 -0500
Subject: Well, mzybe not so cool: Sanskrit script?
Message-ID: <161227088063.23782.10646177955699839056.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

"Did Sanskrit ever have a 'dedicated' script in the North? Grantha belongs to the South. A few other dedicated scripts eg., Nadinagari, were developed in the Decaan. But none became popular in the nineteenth century. Oriya has ever been as good for Oriya as for Sanskrit. So is Devnagari for Hindi and Sanskrit, Count Bengali, Telugu and Malayalam and Kannad too among others. And Gujarati, Newari, the Brahmi and post-Brahmi script and others I miss.  Similar to Latin, French, English,post-Kemal Turkish and post-war German? A situation ripe for Lewis Carroll. 
DB"

I have always wondered if anyone has done a study of the progress of the use of Devanagari for Sanskrit.  Is it a result of the development of a mass (pan-Indian, plus Western scholarly) market for printed Sanskrit?  After what date would a South Indian or Bengali pundit or purohit be more likely than not to know Nagari in addition to his regional script?

I have a vague memory that at some stage the Government of British India decided it would not subsidize any Sanskrit publications that weren't in Nagari, but can't for the life of me recall where I read or heard this. Has anyone heard of anything of the sort? Are there counter-examples?

Whenever a member of the public says anything that implies that Sanskrit as a language is linked to a particular writing system, I emphatically state that it is a language, something spoken, and that any script can be used for it, and that the same is true for Pali.  It is interesting, indeed, that Sanskrit and Pali are the only languagesthat come to mind that are used across a large area, with a sacral aspect although also used (in the case of Sanskrit) for many diverse secular purposes, which are not linked with a single script.  How different from Greek, Latin, Hebrew, Chinese, Arabic, Persian, and Church Slavonic.  It seems that with them the script enters into the sociolinguistic definition of the language in a way it doesn't in Sanskrit and Pali.

Happy New Year to everyone.

Allen


Allen W. Thrasher, Ph.D.
Senior Reference Librarian
Team Coordinator
South Asia Team, Asian Division
Library of Congress, Jefferson Building 150
101 Independence Ave., S.E.
Washington, DC 20540-4810
tel. 202-707-3732; fax 202-707-1724; athr at loc.gov
The opinions expressed do not necessarily reflect those of the Library of Congress.




From eastwestcultural at YAHOO.COM  Tue Jan  5 14:59:36 2010
From: eastwestcultural at YAHOO.COM (Dean Michael Anderson)
Date: Tue, 05 Jan 10 06:59:36 -0800
Subject: kashyap as default gotra (ritual manual?)
In-Reply-To: <685748.71851.qm@web23104.mail.ird.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <161227088076.23782.13176603076530670592.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

I don't have a textual reference but it is common in modern India that converts to Hinduism of European heritage are told to take Kashyapa as their gotra. I have seen them use it in rituals performed in very traditional contexts and it was accepted.

Of course, many Hindus of Indian heritage also have Kashyapa as their gotra.

Best,

Dean Michael Anderson


--- On Tue, 1/5/10, Benjamin Slade <ingeardagum at YAHOO.CO.UK> wrote:

From: Benjamin Slade <ingeardagum at YAHOO.CO.UK>
Subject: kashyap as default gotra (ritual manual?)
To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk
Date: Tuesday, January 5, 2010, 6:38 PM

Some time ago, I came across a reference somewhere that in case of a person's gotra being unknown, for purposes of marriage etc., they should be assigned Kaashyapa gotra.

I can't recall where I saw this reference and Google hasn't been of any help. So I was wondering if anyone could point me to the source(s?) for this custom.

(Intriguingly the rsi Kashyapa seems to be connected with "conversion" of Mlecchas, e.g. in the Bhavishya Purana).
 
-------------------------------------------------
Benjamin Slade -? http://www.jnanam.net/slade/ 
Dept. of Linguistics
University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? 
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? 
St?fcr?ft & Vy?kara?a - http://staefcraeft.blogspot.com

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
? ???? ?????????? ?? ?????? 
? ? 'The gods love the obscure.' (?atapathabr?ma?a 6.1.1.2)




From slaje at T-ONLINE.DE  Tue Jan  5 07:45:37 2010
From: slaje at T-ONLINE.DE (Walter Slaje)
Date: Tue, 05 Jan 10 08:45:37 +0100
Subject: Well, mzybe not so cool: Sanskrit script?
In-Reply-To: <20100104T171355Z_AE4F00170000@loc.gov>
Message-ID: <161227088070.23782.278903348682754369.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

> > "Did Sanskrit ever have a 'dedicated' script in the North?

? propos "North": Devanagari was not used in Kashmir until it was 
established under Hindu (Dogra) rule (second half of the nineteenth 
century). Previously, Sanskrit was written exclusively in (Proto-)Sarada 
characters. The Pandits, being unaccustomed to it, adopted Nagari only 
hesitantly and not without reservation.
See the reports of Buehler and Stein;
also Witzel, Kashmiri Manuscripts and Pronunciation; Witzel, The Brahmins if 
Kashmir.

Best,
WS

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Allen W Thrasher" <athr at LOC.GOV>
To: <INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk>
Sent: Monday, January 04, 2010 11:13 PM
Subject: Re: Well, mzybe not so cool: Sanskrit script?


> "Did Sanskrit ever have a 'dedicated' script in the North? Grantha belongs 
> to the South. A few other dedicated scripts eg., Nadinagari, were 
> developed in the Decaan. But none became popular in the nineteenth 
> century. Oriya has ever been as good for Oriya as for Sanskrit. So is 
> Devnagari for Hindi and Sanskrit, Count Bengali, Telugu and Malayalam and 
> Kannad too among others. And Gujarati, Newari, the Brahmi and post-Brahmi 
> script and others I miss.  Similar to Latin, French, English,post-Kemal 
> Turkish and post-war German? A situation ripe for Lewis Carroll.
> DB"
>
> I have always wondered if anyone has done a study of the progress of the 
> use of Devanagari for Sanskrit.  Is it a result of the development of a 
> mass (pan-Indian, plus Western scholarly) market for printed Sanskrit? 
> After what date would a South Indian or Bengali pundit or purohit be more 
> likely than not to know Nagari in addition to his regional script?
>
> I have a vague memory that at some stage the Government of British India 
> decided it would not subsidize any Sanskrit publications that weren't in 
> Nagari, but can't for the life of me recall where I read or heard this. 
> Has anyone heard of anything of the sort? Are there counter-examples?
>
> Whenever a member of the public says anything that implies that Sanskrit 
> as a language is linked to a particular writing system, I emphatically 
> state that it is a language, something spoken, and that any script can be 
> used for it, and that the same is true for Pali.  It is interesting, 
> indeed, that Sanskrit and Pali are the only languagesthat come to mind 
> that are used across a large area, with a sacral aspect although also used 
> (in the case of Sanskrit) for many diverse secular purposes, which are not 
> linked with a single script.  How different from Greek, Latin, Hebrew, 
> Chinese, Arabic, Persian, and Church Slavonic.  It seems that with them 
> the script enters into the sociolinguistic definition of the language in a 
> way it doesn't in Sanskrit and Pali.
>
> Happy New Year to everyone.
>
> Allen
>
>
> Allen W. Thrasher, Ph.D.
> Senior Reference Librarian
> Team Coordinator
> South Asia Team, Asian Division
> Library of Congress, Jefferson Building 150
> 101 Independence Ave., S.E.
> Washington, DC 20540-4810
> tel. 202-707-3732; fax 202-707-1724; athr at loc.gov
> The opinions expressed do not necessarily reflect those of the Library of 
> Congress.

------------------------------
Prof. Dr. Walter Slaje
Hermann-L?ns-Str. 1
D-99425 Weimar
(Germany)
www.indologie.uni-halle.de

Ego ex animi mei sententia spondeo ac polliceor
studia humanitatis impigro labore culturum et provecturum
non sordidi lucri causa nec ad vanam captandam gloriam,
sed quo magis veritas propagetur et lux eius, qua salus
humani generis continetur, clarius effulgeat.
Vindobonae, die XXI. mensis Novembris MCMLXXXIII. 




From ssandahl at SYMPATICO.CA  Tue Jan  5 13:54:43 2010
From: ssandahl at SYMPATICO.CA (Stella Sandahl)
Date: Tue, 05 Jan 10 08:54:43 -0500
Subject: Rtuvarnana
In-Reply-To: <C56BAB32-1304-40A7-9B93-739D7CCE9F17@oneonta.edu>
Message-ID: <161227088074.23782.16640472408562225846.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Dear colleagues,
Belatedly, a few remarks about Rtu: nobody seems to have mentioned V.  
Raghavan's
Rtu in Sanskrit literature, Delhi : Shri Lal Bahadur Shastri Kendriya  
Sanskrit Vidyapeetha, 1972.
xviii, 196 p. --
Language
and for comparison Charlotte Vaudeville's
Barahmasa; les chansons des douze mois dans les litteratures indo- 
aryennes.
Pondich?ry Institut fran?ais d'indologie 1965, 97p.

Also, the RtusaMhAra continues to be attributed to KAlidAsa. I  
believe I have proven that this poem is not by KAlidAsa in my 2002  
article
"The RtusaMhAra. A new approach" published in Rivista degli Studi  
Orientali, No. 75,, fasc.I-IV, pp. 147-156.

Happy New Year to all!
Stella Sandahl


Professor Stella Sandahl
Department of East Asian Studies
130 St. George St. room 14087
Toronto, ON M5S 3H1
ssandahl at sympatico.ca
stella.sandahl at utoronto.ca
Tel. (416) 978-4295
Fax. (416) 978-5711



On 12-Dec-09, at 11:41 AM, Toke L. Knudsen wrote:

> Dear Venetia,
>
> Inspired by K?lid?sa's ?tusa?h?ra, the Indian astronomers  
> also wrote poems describing the seasons.  See Bh?skara II's  
> ?tuvar?ana (part of the Siddh?nta?iroma?i).  J??nar?ja  
> gives a more elaborate poem on the seasons in the Siddh?ntasundara.
>
> All  best wishes,
> Toke
>
>
>
> On Dec 11, 2009, at 6:46 AM, venetia ansell wrote:
>
>> Could anyone direct me to interesting passages describing the  
>> seasons in
>> Sanskrit poetry and any articles or books that have been written  
>> about
>> 'rtu-varnana'?
>> Thank you very much,
>> Venetia
>
> -----
> Toke L. Knudsen, Ph.D.
> Assistant Professor of Mathematics
> Department of Mathematics, Computer Science, and Statistics
> State University of New York, College at Oneonta
> 108 Ravine Parkway
> Oneonta, NY 13820
> USA




From dbhattacharya2004 at YAHOO.CO.IN  Tue Jan  5 05:05:28 2010
From: dbhattacharya2004 at YAHOO.CO.IN (Dipak Bhattacharya)
Date: Tue, 05 Jan 10 10:35:28 +0530
Subject: Well, mzybe not so cool: Sanskrit script?
In-Reply-To: <20100104T171355Z_AE4F00170000@loc.gov>
Message-ID: <161227088065.23782.7993355977035927124.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

'Whenever a member of the public says anything that implies that Sanskrit as a language is linked to a particular writing system'
This is the layman's ie not so knowledgeable non-specialists' position in India. I did not know about any confusion in the West before the current correspondences started. But specialists I?ever met were very clear in their conception of the distinction between the script and the language. There might have been a bit of ?innocent over-statement by Allen.
As for the acceptance of the Nagari script as the standard script for Sanskrit the names of Iswar Chandra Vidyasagar, the great nineteenth century reformer who fought for women's rights since the 1840s and published his editions in Devnagari, and that of Bhudev Mukhopadhyay who worked for the propagation of Hindi ?-- both were Bengali and stationed at Calcutta -- ?may be mentioned. 
As the matter stands the facts are recorded in Bengali. Sukumar Sen (Bharatkosh 4, 1970,?Bangiya Sahitya Parishat, Calcutta) does not speak of?any special movement for accepting the Nagai script for Sanskrit but emphasizes the currency of the practice as the standard one since the nineteenth century. 
The facts about Vidyasagar and Bhudev Mukhopadhyay will be found recorded in the relevant volumes of the Sahitya Sadhak Charitamala, Brajendranath Bandyopadhyay, Bangiya Sahitya Parishat.
The earliest publications (Upanishads: Ram Mohan Roy, 1817) were in the Bengali script. In the sixties Satyavrata Samasrami brought out his edition of the Samaveda in Nagari. So did ?nandachandra Ved?ntavag??a for the L?ty?y?na-?rautas?tra (1870). A brief history may be found in a forthcoming volume (in English) on Bengal?s contribution to Vedic text-criticism, RBU, Kolkata. 
Maxmuller?s contribution (RV ed.) and that of the Asiatic Society count heavily.
Enough I think. ??Thanks and best wishes
DB
?

--- On Tue, 5/1/10, Allen W Thrasher <athr at LOC.GOV> wrote:


From: Allen W Thrasher <athr at LOC.GOV>
Subject: Re: Well, mzybe not so cool: Sanskrit script?
To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk
Date: Tuesday, 5 January, 2010, 3:43 AM


"Did Sanskrit ever have a 'dedicated' script in the North? Grantha belongs to the South. A few other dedicated scripts eg., Nadinagari, were developed in the Decaan. But none became popular in the nineteenth century. Oriya has ever been as good for Oriya as for Sanskrit. So is Devnagari for Hindi and Sanskrit, Count Bengali, Telugu and Malayalam and Kannad too among others. And Gujarati, Newari, the Brahmi and post-Brahmi script and others I miss.? Similar to Latin, French, English,post-Kemal Turkish and post-war German? A situation ripe for Lewis Carroll. 
DB"

I have always wondered if anyone has done a study of the progress of the use of Devanagari for Sanskrit.? Is it a result of the development of a mass (pan-Indian, plus Western scholarly) market for printed Sanskrit?? After what date would a South Indian or Bengali pundit or purohit be more likely than not to know Nagari in addition to his regional script?

I have a vague memory that at some stage the Government of British India decided it would not subsidize any Sanskrit publications that weren't in Nagari, but can't for the life of me recall where I read or heard this. Has anyone heard of anything of the sort? Are there counter-examples?

Whenever a member of the public says anything that implies that Sanskrit as a language is linked to a particular writing system, I emphatically state that it is a language, something spoken, and that any script can be used for it, and that the same is true for Pali.? It is interesting, indeed, that Sanskrit and Pali are the only languagesthat come to mind that are used across a large area, with a sacral aspect although also used (in the case of Sanskrit) for many diverse secular purposes, which are not linked with a single script.? How different from Greek, Latin, Hebrew, Chinese, Arabic, Persian, and Church Slavonic.? It seems that with them the script enters into the sociolinguistic definition of the language in a way it doesn't in Sanskrit and Pali.

Happy New Year to everyone.

Allen


Allen W. Thrasher, Ph.D.
Senior Reference Librarian
Team Coordinator
South Asia Team, Asian Division
Library of Congress, Jefferson Building 150
101 Independence Ave., S.E.
Washington, DC 20540-4810
tel. 202-707-3732; fax 202-707-1724; athr at loc.gov
The opinions expressed do not necessarily reflect those of the Library of Congress.


      The INTERNET now has a personality. YOURS! See your Yahoo! Homepage. http://in.yahoo.com/




From mkapstei at UCHICAGO.EDU  Tue Jan  5 16:40:08 2010
From: mkapstei at UCHICAGO.EDU (mkapstei at UCHICAGO.EDU)
Date: Tue, 05 Jan 10 10:40:08 -0600
Subject: Sanskrit script?
In-Reply-To: <84EE498FA7674F4DB97671A2987FDD62@SlajePC>
Message-ID: <161227088086.23782.1904818177125716494.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Might not the adoption of Davanagari in Kashmir
been due, at least in part, to the development of Sanskrit
printing there? By the mid-19th c., Devanagari type fonts
were in wide use, but I do not know of Sarada
printing type at all. Surely technology and
the distribution of printed texts played major roles 
in promoting Devanagari, not just in Kashmir,
but in many places throughout the subcontinent.

Matthew T. Kapstein
Numata Visiting Professor of Buddhist Studies
The University of Chicago Divinity School

Directeur d'?tudes
Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes, Paris




From dbhattacharya2004 at YAHOO.CO.IN  Tue Jan  5 05:40:06 2010
From: dbhattacharya2004 at YAHOO.CO.IN (Dipak Bhattacharya)
Date: Tue, 05 Jan 10 11:10:06 +0530
Subject: Fw: Re: Well, mzybe not so cool: Sanskrit script?
Message-ID: <161227088067.23782.5229802290936939736.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

For the script, mentioning Maxmuller ignoring O.N.Bohtlingk (Ashtadhyayi, Bonn.ed 1839)?was an error on my part. I deeply regret
DB

--- On Tue, 5/1/10, Dipak Bhattacharya <dbhattacharya2004 at YAHOO.CO.IN> wrote:


From: Dipak Bhattacharya <dbhattacharya2004 at YAHOO.CO.IN>
Subject: Re: Well, mzybe not so cool: Sanskrit script?
To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk
Date: Tuesday, 5 January, 2010, 10:35 AM


'Whenever a member of the public says anything that implies that Sanskrit as a language is linked to a particular writing system'
This is the layman's ie not so knowledgeable non-specialists' position in India. I did not know about any confusion in the West before the current correspondences started. But specialists I?ever met were very clear in their conception of the distinction between the script and the language. There might have been a bit of ?innocent over-statement by Allen.
As for the acceptance of the Nagari script as the standard script for Sanskrit the names of Iswar Chandra Vidyasagar, the great nineteenth century reformer who fought for women's rights since the 1840s and published his editions in Devnagari, and that of Bhudev Mukhopadhyay who worked for the propagation of Hindi ?-- both were Bengali and stationed at Calcutta -- ?may be mentioned. 
As the matter stands the facts are recorded in Bengali. Sukumar Sen (Bharatkosh 4, 1970,?Bangiya Sahitya Parishat, Calcutta) does not speak of?any special movement for accepting the Nagai script for Sanskrit but emphasizes the currency of the practice as the standard one since the nineteenth century. 
The facts about Vidyasagar and Bhudev Mukhopadhyay will be found recorded in the relevant volumes of the Sahitya Sadhak Charitamala, Brajendranath Bandyopadhyay, Bangiya Sahitya Parishat.
The earliest publications (Upanishads: Ram Mohan Roy, 1817) were in the Bengali script. In the sixties Satyavrata Samasrami brought out his edition of the Samaveda in Nagari. So did ?nandachandra Ved?ntavag??a for the L?ty?y?na-?rautas?tra (1870). A brief history may be found in a forthcoming volume (in English) on Bengal?s contribution to Vedic text-criticism, RBU, Kolkata. 
Maxmuller?s contribution (RV ed.) and that of the Asiatic Society count heavily.
Enough I think. ??Thanks and best wishes
DB
?

--- On Tue, 5/1/10, Allen W Thrasher <athr at LOC.GOV> wrote:


From: Allen W Thrasher <athr at LOC.GOV>
Subject: Re: Well, mzybe not so cool: Sanskrit script?
To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk
Date: Tuesday, 5 January, 2010, 3:43 AM


"Did Sanskrit ever have a 'dedicated' script in the North? Grantha belongs to the South. A few other dedicated scripts eg., Nadinagari, were developed in the Decaan. But none became popular in the nineteenth century. Oriya has ever been as good for Oriya as for Sanskrit. So is Devnagari for Hindi and Sanskrit, Count Bengali, Telugu and Malayalam and Kannad too among others. And Gujarati, Newari, the Brahmi and post-Brahmi script and others I miss.? Similar to Latin, French, English,post-Kemal Turkish and post-war German? A situation ripe for Lewis Carroll. 
DB"

I have always wondered if anyone has done a study of the progress of the use of Devanagari for Sanskrit.? Is it a result of the development of a mass (pan-Indian, plus Western scholarly) market for printed Sanskrit?? After what date would a South Indian or Bengali pundit or purohit be more likely than not to know Nagari in addition to his regional script?

I have a vague memory that at some stage the Government of British India decided it would not subsidize any Sanskrit publications that weren't in Nagari, but can't for the life of me recall where I read or heard this. Has anyone heard of anything of the sort? Are there counter-examples?

Whenever a member of the public says anything that implies that Sanskrit as a language is linked to a particular writing system, I emphatically state that it is a language, something spoken, and that any script can be used for it, and that the same is true for Pali.? It is interesting, indeed, that Sanskrit and Pali are the only languagesthat come to mind that are used across a large area, with a sacral aspect although also used (in the case of Sanskrit) for many diverse secular purposes, which are not linked with a single script.? How different from Greek, Latin, Hebrew, Chinese, Arabic, Persian, and Church Slavonic.? It seems that with them the script enters into the sociolinguistic definition of the language in a way it doesn't in Sanskrit and Pali.

Happy New Year to everyone.

Allen


Allen W. Thrasher, Ph.D.
Senior Reference Librarian
Team Coordinator
South Asia Team, Asian Division
Library of Congress, Jefferson Building 150
101 Independence Ave., S.E.
Washington, DC 20540-4810
tel. 202-707-3732; fax 202-707-1724; athr at loc.gov
The opinions expressed do not necessarily reflect those of the Library of Congress.


? ? ? The INTERNET now has a personality. YOURS! See your Yahoo! Homepage. http://in.yahoo.com/



      The INTERNET now has a personality. YOURS! See your Yahoo! Homepage. http://in.yahoo.com/




From ingeardagum at YAHOO.CO.UK  Tue Jan  5 13:08:03 2010
From: ingeardagum at YAHOO.CO.UK (Benjamin Slade)
Date: Tue, 05 Jan 10 13:08:03 +0000
Subject: kashyap as default gotra (ritual manual?)
Message-ID: <161227088072.23782.158110231440716575.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Some time ago, I came across a reference somewhere that in case of a person's gotra being unknown, for purposes of marriage etc., they should be assigned Kaashyapa gotra.

I can't recall where I saw this reference and Google hasn't been of any help. So I was wondering if anyone could point me to the source(s?) for this custom.

(Intriguingly the rsi Kashyapa seems to be connected with "conversion" of Mlecchas, e.g. in the Bhavishya Purana).
 
-------------------------------------------------
Benjamin Slade -  http://www.jnanam.net/slade/ 
Dept. of Linguistics
University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign                  
                            
St?fcr?ft & Vy?kara?a - http://staefcraeft.blogspot.com

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
  ???? ?????????? ?? ?????? 
    'The gods love the obscure.' (?atapathabr?ma?a 6.1.1.2)


      




From jpo at UTS.CC.UTEXAS.EDU  Tue Jan  5 19:31:12 2010
From: jpo at UTS.CC.UTEXAS.EDU (Patrick Olivelle)
Date: Tue, 05 Jan 10 13:31:12 -0600
Subject: Book
In-Reply-To: <906264.35896.qm@web8603.mail.in.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <161227088093.23782.5307367997420394223.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Dear All:

Since it appears now to be kosher to let everyone know about the 
publication on one's own book, here is my edition and translation of 
the Vaisnava Dharmasastra (aka Visnu-smriti) published in the Harvard 
Oriental Series (# 73).

The Law Code of Visnu. ISBN 9780674051393


Thanks.

Patrick Olivelle




From athr at LOC.GOV  Tue Jan  5 19:35:18 2010
From: athr at LOC.GOV (Allen W Thrasher)
Date: Tue, 05 Jan 10 14:35:18 -0500
Subject: Well, mzybe not so cool: Sanskrit script?
Message-ID: <161227088095.23782.1877771270610691060.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Re the Kashmir situation: In the 70s or 80s I purchased, new, biscriptal editions of the Gita and several other Sanskrit religious classics published in Kashmir in Nagari (from the 'front') and Perso-Arabic (from the 'back').  I donated them to LC but a quick search doesn't succeed in pulling them up.

Also, we were once offered for sale a large collection of Munshi Nawal Kishor Press imprints, among which were Sanskrit classics in Perso-Arabic script; at least, I assume they were in Sanskrit rather than in Urdu translation.

Allen



Allen W. Thrasher, Ph.D.
Senior Reference Librarian
Team Coordinator
South Asia Team, Asian Division
Library of Congress, Jefferson Building 150
101 Independence Ave., S.E.
Washington, DC 20540-4810
tel. 202-707-3732; fax 202-707-1724; athr at loc.gov
The opinions expressed do not necessarily reflect those of the Library of Congress.




From athr at LOC.GOV  Tue Jan  5 19:36:17 2010
From: athr at LOC.GOV (Allen W Thrasher)
Date: Tue, 05 Jan 10 14:36:17 -0500
Subject: Well, mzybe not so cool: Sanskrit script?
Message-ID: <161227088097.23782.10028526785702893405.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Deepak said:

"As for the acceptance of the Nagari script as the standard script for Sanskrit the names of Iswar Chandra Vidyasagar, the great nineteenth century reformer who fought for women's rights since the 1840s and published his editions in Devnagari, and that of Bhudev Mukhopadhyay who worked for the propagation of Hindi  -- both were Bengali and stationed at Calcutta --  may be mentioned."

The firm Isvaracandra Vidyasagara's Sons published a lot of classics in both Nagari and Bangla script.  My institution has a lot of them.  I don't have time right now to see whether the ones we have go back to the father's time.  A search of WorldCat with the same question in mind would also be fruitful (though it is possible early cataloging did not specify the script).

Allen 


Allen W. Thrasher, Ph.D.
Senior Reference Librarian
Team Coordinator
South Asia Team, Asian Division
Library of Congress, Jefferson Building 150
101 Independence Ave., S.E.
Washington, DC 20540-4810
tel. 202-707-3732; fax 202-707-1724; athr at loc.gov
The opinions expressed do not necessarily reflect those of the Library of Congress.




From zydenbos at UNI-MUENCHEN.DE  Tue Jan  5 15:07:41 2010
From: zydenbos at UNI-MUENCHEN.DE (Robert Zydenbos)
Date: Tue, 05 Jan 10 16:07:41 +0100
Subject: Well, mzybe not so cool: Sanskrit script?
In-Reply-To: <717412F37F00424092CFC3A8F5C94B6D@SlajePC>
Message-ID: <161227088079.23782.8183168020830786344.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Op 05.01.10 08:45 schreef Walter Slaje:

>> > "Did Sanskrit ever have a 'dedicated' script in the North?
>
> ? propos "North": Devanagari was not used in Kashmir until it was 
> established under Hindu (Dogra) rule (second half of the nineteenth 
> century). Previously, Sanskrit was written exclusively in 
> (Proto-)Sarada characters. The Pandits, being unaccustomed to it, 
> adopted Nagari only hesitantly and not without reservation. [...]

The standardized use of Nagari for Sanskrit should be seen in the wider 
context of linguistic innovation in the nineteenth century. One 
significant detail is found in the valuable book by Suniti Kumar 
Chatterji, _Indo-Aryan & Hindi_. Calcutta: K.L. Mukhopadhyay, 1969 
(repr.). The book consists of lectures given in Ahmedabad in 1940. 
Writing about the propagation of so-called 'High-Hindi', he says:

"The great recommendation of High-Hindi (or N?gar?-Hindi) for its Hindu 
supporters lies in its N?gar? alphabet (which under British rule has 
become the accepted all-India script for Sanskrit: being used for the 
Deva-bh??? or 'the language of the Gods', it acquired in recent times 
the honoured name Deva-n?gar?, and this added to its prestige, a good 
many people imagining that it was the Original Alphabet of Sanskrit): in 
other words, because it reflects in two vital matters - script and 
vocabulary - the Language of the Gods - the Deva-bh??? - as we use it in 
India now." (p. 165)

I dimly recall (perhaps this too is found somewhere in this book) that 
the British decided to use Nagari as the standard script for Sanskrit 
after the founding of the universities in Calcutta, Madras and Bombay, 
so that graduates from those three institutions needed to master only 
one script to read whatever was printed in those three universities; 
Grantha script was too complex, and Bengali script was elegant but not 
so easy to learn as the more clunky Nagari that was used in the Bombay 
area. (The universities were founded in 1857, so that fits the present 
discussion excellently.) I suspect that Grierson's _Linguistic Survey of 
India_ will provide more information.

South India confirms that Sanskrit was (and still is, to a large extent) 
written in whatever script is being used for the modern language in the 
region.

As for the matter of "Hindi script" (cf. Dipak Bhattacharya, Jan. 1), 
see Christopher King's book _One Language, Two Scripts_ (Oxford 
University Press, 1999), about the largely artificial breaking away of 
'Hindi' from Urdu.

-- 
Prof. Dr. Robert J. Zydenbos
Department fuer Asienstudien - Institut fuer Indologie und Tibetologie
Universitaet Muenchen
Germany
Tel. (+49-89-) 2180-5782
Fax  (+49-89-) 2180-5827
http://www.lrz-muenchen.de/~zydenbos




From athr at LOC.GOV  Tue Jan  5 22:03:29 2010
From: athr at LOC.GOV (Allen W Thrasher)
Date: Tue, 05 Jan 10 17:03:29 -0500
Subject: Well, mzybe not so cool: Sanskrit script?
Message-ID: <161227088106.23782.3880921716416686539.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

"Possibly, although it is always somewhat difficult to guess intentions of 
Sanskritists - if I may have this little joke.
Judging from harder facts, i.e. from concomitant religious and politicial 
changes, the Dogras re-established Hindu rule in Kashmir only after c. 500 years of Muslim and c. 30 years of Sikh rule. It is likely that in its wake also the influx of Hindu texts from India proper written in Devanagari increased considerably, from which a local shaping, known as "Kashmir Devanagari", developed."

The Valley was transferred to Gulab Singh in 1846, when the printing of Sanskrit was already underway in British India.  One would presume (??) that this made it significantly less expensive of money or effort to acquire books than before.  But to read those published in the north of British India one would have to know the Nagari or Bengali script.

Does anyone know if the habit of spending the winter in the plains or in Jammu was already established before the Dogra Raj?  Pandit friends of mine tell me their families used to go down to Jammu in the winter, and I gather the maharaja and muc of the government moved.  If many of the Pandits went to Jammu or someplace else to the south of the mountains in the winter, they might have had more opportunities to encounter Nagari than if they stayed in the Valley the year round.

Allen

Allen W. Thrasher, Ph.D.
Senior Reference Librarian
Team Coordinator
South Asia Team, Asian Division
Library of Congress, Jefferson Building 150
101 Independence Ave., S.E.
Washington, DC 20540-4810
tel. 202-707-3732; fax 202-707-1724; athr at loc.gov
The opinions expressed do not necessarily reflect those of the Library of Congress.




From slaje at T-ONLINE.DE  Tue Jan  5 16:34:18 2010
From: slaje at T-ONLINE.DE (Walter Slaje)
Date: Tue, 05 Jan 10 17:34:18 +0100
Subject: Well, mzybe not so cool: Sanskrit script?
In-Reply-To: <4B4355BD.8070606@uni-muenchen.de>
Message-ID: <161227088083.23782.973188588866186746.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

> The standardized use of Nagari for Sanskrit should be seen in the wider 
> context of linguistic innovation in the nineteenth century.
[...]
> "The great recommendation of High-Hindi (or N?gar?-Hindi) for its Hindu 
> supporters lies in its N?gar? alphabet (which under British rule has 
> become the accepted all-India script for Sanskrit: being used for the 
> Deva-bh??? or 'the language of the Gods', it acquired in recent times the 
> honoured name Deva-n?gar?, and this added to its prestige, [...]

This may be true in general, but I find it difficult to apply the above 
criteria to Kashmir.
First, the name of the Sharada script refers already to a deity, namely to 
Sharada or Sarasvati Devi, the goddess of learning and eloquence. Why 
exchange a prestigious name and the script it designates for another, such 
as Deva-Nagari?
Second, Kashmir was never under British rule,
and third, Hindi played no role there at all and can therefore not be seen 
in the context of a linguistic innovation.

The manuscripts in old Kashmiri I am aware of are written in Sharada.
Modern Kashmiri is commonly written in the Urdu script - as a successor to 
the Persian characters in use for Persian texts in late medieval times, but 
significantly enough not in Devanagari.

Regards,

WS

------------------------------
Prof. Dr. Walter Slaje
Hermann-L?ns-Str. 1
D-99425 Weimar
(Germany)
www.indologie.uni-halle.de

Ego ex animi mei sententia spondeo ac polliceor
studia humanitatis impigro labore culturum et provecturum
non sordidi lucri causa nec ad vanam captandam gloriam,
sed quo magis veritas propagetur et lux eius, qua salus
humani generis continetur, clarius effulgeat.
Vindobonae, die XXI. mensis Novembris MCMLXXXIII. 




From christophe.vielle at UCLOUVAIN.BE  Tue Jan  5 17:24:11 2010
From: christophe.vielle at UCLOUVAIN.BE (Christophe Vielle)
Date: Tue, 05 Jan 10 18:24:11 +0100
Subject: Sanskrit script?
In-Reply-To: <20100105104008.CHQ61034@m4500-02.uchicago.edu>
Message-ID: <161227088091.23782.15104049870271429662.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

As for the former Princely State of Travancore, according to the 
testimony of the "Brief resume of the working of the department for 
the publication of oriental manuscripts" (Trivandrum, 1934), p. 1:
"Printing in Devanagari characters was not prevalent in Travancore 
four decades ago (...) His Highness Sri Mulam Tirunal, the late 
Maharaja, for the first time commanded the getting down of Nagari 
types for the Government Press. In doing so, His Highness's intention 
was to publish the manuscripts (Granthas) in the Granthappura 
(Library) in the Palace. At any rate, the introduction of printing in 
Devanagari was conducive to the development of general culture. It 
was first decided to print the Bhakti Manjari, (...) composition of 
His Most Gracious Highness Svati Tirunal (...)"
This was done in 1903. The work came out in 1904 from the Government 
Press (not numbered in the Trivandrum Sanskrit Series, of which the 
first volume was published in 1905). However, printing and publishing 
of Sanskrit works in Malayalam script never ceased in Kerala until 
today.

Christophe Vielle
institut orientaliste de Louvain
-- 
http://www.uclouvain.be/christophe.vielle
http://belgianindology.lalibreblogs.be




From wc3 at SOAS.AC.UK  Tue Jan  5 19:39:30 2010
From: wc3 at SOAS.AC.UK (Whitney Cox)
Date: Tue, 05 Jan 10 19:39:30 +0000
Subject: Well, mzybe not so cool: Sanskrit script?
In-Reply-To: <572203.42739.qm@web8605.mail.in.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <161227088099.23782.7762482701474589238.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

In response to the particular detail of Prof. Bhattacharya's reference
to Mahe"svaraananda's Mahaarthama~njarii, I argued in my (unpublished)
PhD dissertation that the lost archetype for all of the Sarada and
Kashmirian Nagari MSS of the text was written in Grantha or perhaps in
the Aryalipi of Kerala.  Despite the fact that the numerical majority
of the manuscripts of the text are from Kashmir, the work was composed
in the South, and the northern (i.e. Kashmirian) recension is an
inferior and heavily edited version of the text.

I would be happy to provide details of my argument to anyone who might
be interested,

Best,

Whitney

2010/1/5 Dipak Bhattacharya <dbhattacharya2004 at yahoo.co.in>:
> Where written literary activity is carried on in a single language the script may appear to be dedicated. ?But that is dedication by default and does prove a case. By the time local languages gained prominence in Kashmir Islam and the Arabic script had largely replaced the erstwhile culture. So Sarada could not be so widely used for Kashmiri as, say, ?the Bengali, Oriya or Kannad script for the native language of the region of its prevalence.? The litmus state is if the apparently 'dedicated' script is used when occasion rises to compose in ?a different language. Sarada, perhaps, fails in this test. ?See the Maharthamanjari. The Prakrit version is followed by the Sanskrit. Were not they both written in Sarada? Somebody should be able to tell. The edition I have at hand gives no information about the manuscript.
> I also wonder if Somadeva or Kshemendra had read the Baddakaha in a script different from proto-Sarada.
> Best for all
> DB
>
> --- On Tue, 5/1/10, Walter Slaje <slaje at T-ONLINE.DE> wrote:
>
>
> From: Walter Slaje <slaje at T-ONLINE.DE>
> Subject: Re: Well, mzybe not so cool: Sanskrit script?
> To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk
> Date: Tuesday, 5 January, 2010, 1:15 PM
>
>
>> > "Did Sanskrit ever have a 'dedicated' script in the North?
>
> ? propos "North": Devanagari was not used in Kashmir until it was established under Hindu (Dogra) rule (second half of the nineteenth century). Previously, Sanskrit was written exclusively in (Proto-)Sarada characters. The Pandits, being unaccustomed to it, adopted Nagari only hesitantly and not without reservation.
> See the reports of Buehler and Stein;
> also Witzel, Kashmiri Manuscripts and Pronunciation; Witzel, The Brahmins if Kashmir.
>
> Best,
> WS
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Allen W Thrasher" <athr at LOC.GOV>
> To: <INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk>
> Sent: Monday, January 04, 2010 11:13 PM
> Subject: Re: Well, mzybe not so cool: Sanskrit script?
>
>
>> "Did Sanskrit ever have a 'dedicated' script in the North? Grantha belongs to the South. A few other dedicated scripts eg., Nadinagari, were developed in the Decaan. But none became popular in the nineteenth century. Oriya has ever been as good for Oriya as for Sanskrit. So is Devnagari for Hindi and Sanskrit, Count Bengali, Telugu and Malayalam and Kannad too among others. And Gujarati, Newari, the Brahmi and post-Brahmi script and others I miss.? Similar to Latin, French, English,post-Kemal Turkish and post-war German? A situation ripe for Lewis Carroll.
>> DB"
>>
>> I have always wondered if anyone has done a study of the progress of the use of Devanagari for Sanskrit.? Is it a result of the development of a mass (pan-Indian, plus Western scholarly) market for printed Sanskrit? After what date would a South Indian or Bengali pundit or purohit be more likely than not to know Nagari in addition to his regional script?
>>
>> I have a vague memory that at some stage the Government of British India decided it would not subsidize any Sanskrit publications that weren't in Nagari, but can't for the life of me recall where I read or heard this. Has anyone heard of anything of the sort? Are there counter-examples?
>>
>> Whenever a member of the public says anything that implies that Sanskrit as a language is linked to a particular writing system, I emphatically state that it is a language, something spoken, and that any script can be used for it, and that the same is true for Pali.? It is interesting, indeed, that Sanskrit and Pali are the only languagesthat come to mind that are used across a large area, with a sacral aspect although also used (in the case of Sanskrit) for many diverse secular purposes, which are not linked with a single script.? How different from Greek, Latin, Hebrew, Chinese, Arabic, Persian, and Church Slavonic.? It seems that with them the script enters into the sociolinguistic definition of the language in a way it doesn't in Sanskrit and Pali.
>>
>> Happy New Year to everyone.
>>
>> Allen
>>
>>
>> Allen W. Thrasher, Ph.D.
>> Senior Reference Librarian
>> Team Coordinator
>> South Asia Team, Asian Division
>> Library of Congress, Jefferson Building 150
>> 101 Independence Ave., S.E.
>> Washington, DC 20540-4810
>> tel. 202-707-3732; fax 202-707-1724; athr at loc.gov
>> The opinions expressed do not necessarily reflect those of the Library of Congress.
>
> ------------------------------
> Prof. Dr. Walter Slaje
> Hermann-L?ns-Str. 1
> D-99425 Weimar
> (Germany)
> www.indologie.uni-halle.de
>
> Ego ex animi mei sententia spondeo ac polliceor
> studia humanitatis impigro labore culturum et provecturum
> non sordidi lucri causa nec ad vanam captandam gloriam,
> sed quo magis veritas propagetur et lux eius, qua salus
> humani generis continetur, clarius effulgeat.
> Vindobonae, die XXI. mensis Novembris MCMLXXXIII.
>
>
> ? ? ?The INTERNET now has a personality. YOURS! See your Yahoo! Homepage. http://in.yahoo.com/
>



-- 


Dr. Whitney Cox
Department of the Languages and Cultures of South Asia,
School of Oriental and African Studies
Thornhaugh Street, Russell Square
London WC1H 0XG




From zydenbos at UNI-MUENCHEN.DE  Tue Jan  5 20:26:17 2010
From: zydenbos at UNI-MUENCHEN.DE (Robert Zydenbos)
Date: Tue, 05 Jan 10 21:26:17 +0100
Subject: Well, mzybe not so cool: Sanskrit script?
In-Reply-To: <84EE498FA7674F4DB97671A2987FDD62@SlajePC>
Message-ID: <161227088102.23782.9959327726332663412.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Op 05.01.10 17:34 schreef Walter Slaje:

>> The standardized use of Nagari for Sanskrit should be seen in the 
>> wider context of linguistic innovation in the nineteenth century.
> [...]
>
> This may be true in general, but I find it difficult to apply the 
> above criteria to Kashmir.
> [...]
> Second, Kashmir was never under British rule,
> and third, Hindi played no role there at all and can therefore not be 
> seen in the context of a linguistic innovation.
>
> The manuscripts in old Kashmiri I am aware of are written in Sharada.
> Modern Kashmiri is commonly written in the Urdu script - as a 
> successor to the Persian characters in use for Persian texts in late 
> medieval times, but significantly enough not in Devanagari.

I think a misunderstanding has crept in. I quoted Chatterji's book about 
Hindi merely for his argument how Hindi in Nagari script was 
popularized: namely, (a) that N?gar? had already popularly been 
associated with 'devabh???', i.e., Sanskrit, and (b) that this was an 
innovation during British rule. (The spread or non-spread of Hindi is 
not relevant here - the spread of Nagari is.)

Actually, what you mentioned in your earlier message ("Devanagari was 
not used in Kashmir until it was established under Hindu (Dogra) rule 
(second half of the nineteenth century)") only supports my assumption 
for the whole of India:

[before the 19th c.: diversity] Skt. in many scripts (e.g., in Sarada 
script in Kashmir, used for Kashmiri) --> [latter half of 19th c.: 
uniformity] Skt. in Nagari (a previously unknown and unused script, an 
innovation that was introduced from outside)

The interesting question is: why did the situation under Dogra rule 
change? My guess is that the Sanskritists of Kashmir simply wanted to 
join the newly established convention in British India, because they 
recognized its usefulness.

Meanwhile, to end on a more scurrilous note: the myth that Nagari is 
'Sanskrit script' seems thoroughly entrenched now. In Karnataka I knew 
three brothers in a brahmin family: the youngest was modern and signed 
his name in 'English script' (??gla lipi); the middle one was more 
conservative and signed his in Kannada script; the eldest and most 
orthodox thought that as a brahmin, he ought to sign his in 'Sanskrit 
script' - Nagari. I probably need not add that the eldest brother was 
not a great Sanskrit scholar.

Regards,

RZ

-- 
Prof. Dr. Robert J. Zydenbos
Department fuer Asienstudien - Institut fuer Indologie und Tibetologie
Universitaet Muenchen
Germany
Tel. (+49-89-) 2180-5782
Fax  (+49-89-) 2180-5827
http://www.lrz-muenchen.de/~zydenbos




From dbhattacharya2004 at YAHOO.CO.IN  Tue Jan  5 16:08:32 2010
From: dbhattacharya2004 at YAHOO.CO.IN (Dipak Bhattacharya)
Date: Tue, 05 Jan 10 21:38:32 +0530
Subject: Well, mzybe not so cool: Sanskrit script?
In-Reply-To: <717412F37F00424092CFC3A8F5C94B6D@SlajePC>
Message-ID: <161227088081.23782.4532852867257447208.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Where written literary activity is carried on in a single language the script may appear to be dedicated. ?But that is dedication by default and does prove a case. By the time local languages gained prominence in Kashmir Islam and the Arabic script had largely replaced the erstwhile culture. So Sarada could not be so widely used for Kashmiri as, say, ?the Bengali, Oriya or Kannad script for the native language of the region of its prevalence.? The litmus state is if the apparently 'dedicated' script is used when occasion rises to compose in ?a different language. Sarada, perhaps, fails in this test. ?See the Maharthamanjari. The Prakrit version is followed by the Sanskrit. Were not they both written in Sarada? Somebody should be able to tell. The edition I have at hand gives no information about the manuscript.
I also wonder if Somadeva or Kshemendra had read the Baddakaha in a script different from proto-Sarada.
Best for all
DB

--- On Tue, 5/1/10, Walter Slaje <slaje at T-ONLINE.DE> wrote:


From: Walter Slaje <slaje at T-ONLINE.DE>
Subject: Re: Well, mzybe not so cool: Sanskrit script?
To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk
Date: Tuesday, 5 January, 2010, 1:15 PM


> > "Did Sanskrit ever have a 'dedicated' script in the North?

? propos "North": Devanagari was not used in Kashmir until it was established under Hindu (Dogra) rule (second half of the nineteenth century). Previously, Sanskrit was written exclusively in (Proto-)Sarada characters. The Pandits, being unaccustomed to it, adopted Nagari only hesitantly and not without reservation.
See the reports of Buehler and Stein;
also Witzel, Kashmiri Manuscripts and Pronunciation; Witzel, The Brahmins if Kashmir.

Best,
WS

----- Original Message ----- From: "Allen W Thrasher" <athr at LOC.GOV>
To: <INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk>
Sent: Monday, January 04, 2010 11:13 PM
Subject: Re: Well, mzybe not so cool: Sanskrit script?


> "Did Sanskrit ever have a 'dedicated' script in the North? Grantha belongs to the South. A few other dedicated scripts eg., Nadinagari, were developed in the Decaan. But none became popular in the nineteenth century. Oriya has ever been as good for Oriya as for Sanskrit. So is Devnagari for Hindi and Sanskrit, Count Bengali, Telugu and Malayalam and Kannad too among others. And Gujarati, Newari, the Brahmi and post-Brahmi script and others I miss.? Similar to Latin, French, English,post-Kemal Turkish and post-war German? A situation ripe for Lewis Carroll.
> DB"
> 
> I have always wondered if anyone has done a study of the progress of the use of Devanagari for Sanskrit.? Is it a result of the development of a mass (pan-Indian, plus Western scholarly) market for printed Sanskrit? After what date would a South Indian or Bengali pundit or purohit be more likely than not to know Nagari in addition to his regional script?
> 
> I have a vague memory that at some stage the Government of British India decided it would not subsidize any Sanskrit publications that weren't in Nagari, but can't for the life of me recall where I read or heard this. Has anyone heard of anything of the sort? Are there counter-examples?
> 
> Whenever a member of the public says anything that implies that Sanskrit as a language is linked to a particular writing system, I emphatically state that it is a language, something spoken, and that any script can be used for it, and that the same is true for Pali.? It is interesting, indeed, that Sanskrit and Pali are the only languagesthat come to mind that are used across a large area, with a sacral aspect although also used (in the case of Sanskrit) for many diverse secular purposes, which are not linked with a single script.? How different from Greek, Latin, Hebrew, Chinese, Arabic, Persian, and Church Slavonic.? It seems that with them the script enters into the sociolinguistic definition of the language in a way it doesn't in Sanskrit and Pali.
> 
> Happy New Year to everyone.
> 
> Allen
> 
> 
> Allen W. Thrasher, Ph.D.
> Senior Reference Librarian
> Team Coordinator
> South Asia Team, Asian Division
> Library of Congress, Jefferson Building 150
> 101 Independence Ave., S.E.
> Washington, DC 20540-4810
> tel. 202-707-3732; fax 202-707-1724; athr at loc.gov
> The opinions expressed do not necessarily reflect those of the Library of Congress.

------------------------------
Prof. Dr. Walter Slaje
Hermann-L?ns-Str. 1
D-99425 Weimar
(Germany)
www.indologie.uni-halle.de

Ego ex animi mei sententia spondeo ac polliceor
studia humanitatis impigro labore culturum et provecturum
non sordidi lucri causa nec ad vanam captandam gloriam,
sed quo magis veritas propagetur et lux eius, qua salus
humani generis continetur, clarius effulgeat.
Vindobonae, die XXI. mensis Novembris MCMLXXXIII. 


      The INTERNET now has a personality. YOURS! See your Yahoo! Homepage. http://in.yahoo.com/




From slaje at T-ONLINE.DE  Tue Jan  5 21:29:06 2010
From: slaje at T-ONLINE.DE (Walter Slaje)
Date: Tue, 05 Jan 10 22:29:06 +0100
Subject: Well, mzybe not so cool: Sanskrit script?
In-Reply-To: <4B43A069.4020606@uni-muenchen.de>
Message-ID: <161227088104.23782.9470694204762324943.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

> The interesting question is: why did the situation under Dogra rule 
> change? My guess is that the Sanskritists of Kashmir simply wanted to join 
> the newly established convention in British India, because they recognized 
> its usefulness.


Possibly, although it is always somewhat difficult to guess intentions of 
Sanskritists - if I may have this little joke.
Judging from harder facts, i.e. from concomitant religious and politicial 
changes, the Dogras re-established Hindu rule in Kashmir only after c. 500 
years of Muslim and c. 30 years of Sikh rule. It is likely that in its wake 
also the influx of Hindu texts from India proper written in Devanagari 
increased considerably, from which a local shaping, known as "Kashmir 
Devanagari", developed.

Best,
WS

------------------------------
Prof. Dr. Walter Slaje
Hermann-L?ns-Str. 1
D-99425 Weimar
(Germany)
www.indologie.uni-halle.de

Ego ex animi mei sententia spondeo ac polliceor
studia humanitatis impigro labore culturum et provecturum
non sordidi lucri causa nec ad vanam captandam gloriam,
sed quo magis veritas propagetur et lux eius, qua salus
humani generis continetur, clarius effulgeat.
Vindobonae, die XXI. mensis Novembris MCMLXXXIII. 




From dbhattacharya2004 at YAHOO.CO.IN  Tue Jan  5 17:05:24 2010
From: dbhattacharya2004 at YAHOO.CO.IN (Dipak Bhattacharya)
Date: Tue, 05 Jan 10 22:35:24 +0530
Subject: Well, mzybe not so cool: Sanskrit script?
In-Reply-To: <84EE498FA7674F4DB97671A2987FDD62@SlajePC>
Message-ID: <161227088088.23782.10899210948885200447.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

The discussion has digressed. None should object to that but the old point comes back in a wrong context. Was there any script valid for North India, like Grantha for a large part of the South that would not be used for any other language and thus could be called a Sanskrit script? Since by the correspondent's own admission?'The manuscripts in old Kashmiri I am aware of are written in Sharada' Sarada does not pass this test. Also see my previous submission. 
My objection was against distinguishing between a Hindi and a Sanskrit script. Dedicated script itself does not fit into the Indian situation well. One can write Tamil in Bengali with minimum innovations and Bengali in Kannad without innovation but some orthographic rules. The unique situation in India to which I desired to draw notice seems to have been?taken note of?by many in this forum.?Most of India's?regional scripts have ever been valid for the regional language as well as for Sanskrit.
But is not the situation the same with the present form of the 'Latin'- script? Originally ?meant for Latin it is now used for all West European languages, Turkish, Bahasa Indonesia and many others.
At present so but since, unlike Latin,?Brahmi changed from century to century a unique situation arose in India in the past.
Many thanks to everybody for a lively discussion. Best wishes 
DB
?
-- On Tue, 5/1/10, script. Walter Slaje <slaje at T-ONLINE.DE> wrote:


From: Walter Slaje <slaje at T-ONLINE.DE>
Subject: Re: Well, mzybe not so cool: Sanskrit script?
To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk
Date: Tuesday, 5 January, 2010, 10:04 PM


> The standardized use of Nagari for Sanskrit should be seen in the wider context of linguistic innovation in the nineteenth century.
[...]
> "The great recommendation of High-Hindi (or N?gar?-Hindi) for its Hindu supporters lies in its N?gar? alphabet (which under British rule has become the accepted all-India script for Sanskrit: being used for the Deva-bh??? or 'the language of the Gods', it acquired in recent times the honoured name Deva-n?gar?, and this added to its prestige, [...]

This may be true in general, but I find it difficult to apply the above criteria to Kashmir.
First, the name of the Sharada script refers already to a deity, namely to Sharada or Sarasvati Devi, the goddess of learning and eloquence. Why exchange a prestigious name and the script it designates for another, such as Deva-Nagari?
Second, Kashmir was never under British rule,
and third, Hindi played no role there at all and can therefore not be seen in the context of a linguistic innovation.

The manuscripts in old Kashmiri I am aware of are written in Sharada.
Modern Kashmiri is commonly written in the Urdu script - as a successor to the Persian characters in use for Persian texts in late medieval times, but significantly enough not in Devanagari.

Regards,

WS

------------------------------
Prof. Dr. Walter Slaje
Hermann-L?ns-Str. 1
D-99425 Weimar
(Germany)
www.indologie.uni-halle.de

Ego ex animi mei sententia spondeo ac polliceor
studia humanitatis impigro labore culturum et provecturum
non sordidi lucri causa nec ad vanam captandam gloriam,
sed quo magis veritas propagetur et lux eius, qua salus
humani generis continetur, clarius effulgeat.
Vindobonae, die XXI. mensis Novembris MCMLXXXIII. 


      The INTERNET now has a personality. YOURS! See your Yahoo! Homepage. http://in.yahoo.com/




From jemhouben at GMAIL.COM  Tue Jan  5 23:40:44 2010
From: jemhouben at GMAIL.COM (Jan E.M. Houben)
Date: Wed, 06 Jan 10 00:40:44 +0100
Subject: publication: Le nom propre en Inde
Message-ID: <161227088113.23782.10362235580444802983.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

author: Emilie Aussant
title: Le nom propre en Inde : Consid?rations sur le m?canisme r?f?rentiel
Lyon: ENS ?ditions

Briefly stated the author investigates "proper names" according to authors
in vyaakara.na, nyaaya and miimaansaa (from Patanjali to Nagesa): do they,
and if so how do they, denote and/or connotate?




From jemhouben at GMAIL.COM  Tue Jan  5 23:49:11 2010
From: jemhouben at GMAIL.COM (Jan E.M. Houben)
Date: Wed, 06 Jan 10 00:49:11 +0100
Subject: recent publication: nyaaya suutra and nyaaya bhaa.sya translated              and annotated
Message-ID: <161227088116.23782.3643626727259380540.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

author/translator: Michel Angot
title: Le Nyaaya-Suutra de Gautama Ak.sapaada -- Le Nyaaya-Bhaa.sya
d'Ak.sapaada Pak.silasvaamin : L'Art de Conduire la Pens?e en Inde Ancienne.
Edition, Traduction et Pr?sentation.
Paris: Les Belles Lettres.

with an introductory study of 242 pages, text-translation-notes on pp.
243-807, appendices 809-883.
the introduction deals with: A vocabulary and method; B the art of debate; C
the NyaayaS seen by its commentator; D logic, rationality, rationalities; E
medicine and dialectics: extracts from the Vimaanasthaana of the Caraka
Samhitaa.




From ingeardagum at YAHOO.CO.UK  Wed Jan  6 14:32:23 2010
From: ingeardagum at YAHOO.CO.UK (Benjamin Slade)
Date: Wed, 06 Jan 10 06:32:23 -0800
Subject: kashyap as default gotra (ritual manual?)
In-Reply-To: <999941.81067.qm@web62407.mail.re1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <161227088128.23782.10402320363444939544.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Dean Michael Anderson <eastwestcultural at YAHOO.COM> said:
> I don't have a textual reference but it is common in modern India that converts to Hinduism of European heritage are told to take Kashyapa as their gotra. I have seen them use it in
> rituals performed in very traditional contexts and it was accepted.> Of course, many Hindus of Indian heritage also have Kashyapa as their gotra.

Yes, Kashyapa seems to be the gotra taken by European-heritage Hindus, but this seems to be a specific instance of a more general rule rather than a recently-devised practice specifically for handling European converts. As I recall, Kashyapa is the gotra used if the father's gotra is unknown (which obviously could apply in variety of circumstances). And assignment of a gotra to converts from Islam would have been important in earlier times as well.

I'm still curious though about the textual attestations of/justifications for this practice, if anyone has any further information. 


best,
-------------------------------------------------
Benjamin Slade 
Dept. of Linguistics
University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign                  
[ http://www.jnanam.net/slade/ ]                         
  
St?fcr?ft & Vy?kara?a (lingblog) - http://staefcraeft.blogspot.com

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
 ???? ?????????? ?? ?????? 
   'The gods love the obscure.' (?atapathabr?ma?a 6.1.1.2)






________________________________
From: Dean Michael Anderson <eastwestcultural at YAHOO.COM>
To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk
Sent: Tue, 5 January, 2010 8:59:36
Subject: Re: kashyap as default gotra (ritual manual?)

I don't have a textual reference but it is common in modern India that converts to Hinduism of European heritage are told to take Kashyapa as their gotra. I have seen them use it in rituals performed in very traditional contexts and it was accepted.

Of course, many Hindus of Indian heritage also have Kashyapa as their gotra.

Best,

Dean Michael Anderson


--- On Tue, 1/5/10, Benjamin Slade <ingeardagum at YAHOO.CO.UK> wrote:

From: Benjamin Slade <ingeardagum at YAHOO.CO.UK>
Subject: kashyap as default gotra (ritual manual?)
To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk
Date: Tuesday, January 5, 2010, 6:38 PM

Some time ago, I came across a reference somewhere that in case of a person's gotra being unknown, for purposes of marriage etc., they should be assigned Kaashyapa gotra.

I can't recall where I saw this reference and Google hasn't been of any help. So I was wondering if anyone could point me to the source(s?) for this custom.

(Intriguingly the rsi Kashyapa seems to be connected with "conversion" of Mlecchas, e.g. in the Bhavishya Purana).

-------------------------------------------------
Benjamin Slade -  http://www.jnanam.net/slade/ 
Dept. of Linguistics
University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign                  
                            
St?fcr?ft & Vy?kara?a - http://staefcraeft.blogspot.com

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
  ???? ?????????? ?? ?????? 
    'The gods love the obscure.' (?atapathabr?ma?a 6.1.1.2)



      




From slaje at T-ONLINE.DE  Wed Jan  6 07:53:10 2010
From: slaje at T-ONLINE.DE (Walter Slaje)
Date: Wed, 06 Jan 10 08:53:10 +0100
Subject: Well, mzybe not so cool: Sanskrit script?
In-Reply-To: <4B4370E10200003A00072A61@ntgwgate.loc.gov>
Message-ID: <161227088123.23782.15602929211785045842.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Allen,

>  But to read those published in the north of British India one would have 
> to know the Nagari or Bengali script.

There are plenty of Kashmirian mss of that time, which were copied from 
Nagari mss or demonstrably transcribed from Sharada exemplars, although 
Sharada did not entirely fall into desuetude. Occasionally, Nagari mss were 
even copied from printed books, which strengthens your point. In any case we 
must however assume a general turn in writing towards Nagari irrespective of 
book printing.

> Does anyone know if the habit of spending the winter in the plains or in 
> Jammu was already established before the Dogra Raj?

The most detailed accounts of Ranjit Singh's (Sikh) rule predating the 
Dogras I am aware of are the voluminous contemporary travel reports by 
William Moorcroft, Johann Martin Honigberger, Baron von Huegel, and Godfrey 
Thomas Vigne. They are likely to provide useful information in this regard.

Walter

------------------------------
Prof. Dr. Walter Slaje
Hermann-L?ns-Str. 1
D-99425 Weimar
(Germany)
www.indologie.uni-halle.de

Ego ex animi mei sententia spondeo ac polliceor
studia humanitatis impigro labore culturum et provecturum
non sordidi lucri causa nec ad vanam captandam gloriam,
sed quo magis veritas propagetur et lux eius, qua salus
humani generis continetur, clarius effulgeat.
Vindobonae, die XXI. mensis Novembris MCMLXXXIII. 




From dbhattacharya2004 at YAHOO.CO.IN  Wed Jan  6 05:50:46 2010
From: dbhattacharya2004 at YAHOO.CO.IN (Dipak Bhattacharya)
Date: Wed, 06 Jan 10 11:20:46 +0530
Subject: Well, mzybe not so cool: Sanskrit script?
In-Reply-To: <76c1007b1001051139t27f2979dse47fb04b17de719@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <161227088118.23782.1292418756355331457.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Thanks with my best wishes for a happy new year! I am interested and shall be happy to read your arguments. My idea was that the Pratyabhijnaa had travelled to the South from Kashmir. I expressed my view in black and white (published) in the 70s but could not further elabporate because of other occupations. I still believe in it and in Abhinavagupta's originality in Introducing the theology/philosophy. But I shall read your arguments tho I do not have time to go for publishing my views in near future.
My Maharthamanjari was heavily damaged during shift to my present house. Could you inform where I can get a copy?
Sincerely 
DB

--- On Wed, 6/1/10, Whitney Cox <wc3 at SOAS.AC.UK> wrote:


From: Whitney Cox <wc3 at SOAS.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Well, mzybe not so cool: Sanskrit script?
To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk
Date: Wednesday, 6 January, 2010, 1:09 AM


In response to the particular detail of Prof. Bhattacharya's reference
to Mahe"svaraananda's Mahaarthama~njarii, I argued in my (unpublished)
PhD dissertation that the lost archetype for all of the Sarada and
Kashmirian Nagari MSS of the text was written in Grantha or perhaps in
the Aryalipi of Kerala.? Despite the fact that the numerical majority
of the manuscripts of the text are from Kashmir, the work was composed
in the South, and the northern (i.e. Kashmirian) recension is an
inferior and heavily edited version of the text.

I would be happy to provide details of my argument to anyone who might
be interested,

Best,

Whitney

2010/1/5 Dipak Bhattacharya <dbhattacharya2004 at yahoo.co.in>:
> Where written literary activity is carried on in a single language the script may appear to be dedicated. ?But that is dedication by default and does prove a case. By the time local languages gained prominence in Kashmir Islam and the Arabic script had largely replaced the erstwhile culture. So Sarada could not be so widely used for Kashmiri as, say, ?the Bengali, Oriya or Kannad script for the native language of the region of its prevalence.? The litmus state is if the apparently 'dedicated' script is used when occasion rises to compose in ?a different language. Sarada, perhaps, fails in this test. ?See the Maharthamanjari. The Prakrit version is followed by the Sanskrit. Were not they both written in Sarada? Somebody should be able to tell. The edition I have at hand gives no information about the manuscript.
> I also wonder if Somadeva or Kshemendra had read the Baddakaha in a script different from proto-Sarada.
> Best for all
> DB
>
> --- On Tue, 5/1/10, Walter Slaje <slaje at T-ONLINE.DE> wrote:
>
>
> From: Walter Slaje <slaje at T-ONLINE.DE>
> Subject: Re: Well, mzybe not so cool: Sanskrit script?
> To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk
> Date: Tuesday, 5 January, 2010, 1:15 PM
>
>
>> > "Did Sanskrit ever have a 'dedicated' script in the North?
>
> ? propos "North": Devanagari was not used in Kashmir until it was established under Hindu (Dogra) rule (second half of the nineteenth century). Previously, Sanskrit was written exclusively in (Proto-)Sarada characters. The Pandits, being unaccustomed to it, adopted Nagari only hesitantly and not without reservation.
> See the reports of Buehler and Stein;
> also Witzel, Kashmiri Manuscripts and Pronunciation; Witzel, The Brahmins if Kashmir.
>
> Best,
> WS
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Allen W Thrasher" <athr at LOC.GOV>
> To: <INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk>
> Sent: Monday, January 04, 2010 11:13 PM
> Subject: Re: Well, mzybe not so cool: Sanskrit script?
>
>
>> "Did Sanskrit ever have a 'dedicated' script in the North? Grantha belongs to the South. A few other dedicated scripts eg., Nadinagari, were developed in the Decaan. But none became popular in the nineteenth century. Oriya has ever been as good for Oriya as for Sanskrit. So is Devnagari for Hindi and Sanskrit, Count Bengali, Telugu and Malayalam and Kannad too among others. And Gujarati, Newari, the Brahmi and post-Brahmi script and others I miss.? Similar to Latin, French, English,post-Kemal Turkish and post-war German? A situation ripe for Lewis Carroll.
>> DB"
>>
>> I have always wondered if anyone has done a study of the progress of the use of Devanagari for Sanskrit.? Is it a result of the development of a mass (pan-Indian, plus Western scholarly) market for printed Sanskrit? After what date would a South Indian or Bengali pundit or purohit be more likely than not to know Nagari in addition to his regional script?
>>
>> I have a vague memory that at some stage the Government of British India decided it would not subsidize any Sanskrit publications that weren't in Nagari, but can't for the life of me recall where I read or heard this. Has anyone heard of anything of the sort? Are there counter-examples?
>>
>> Whenever a member of the public says anything that implies that Sanskrit as a language is linked to a particular writing system, I emphatically state that it is a language, something spoken, and that any script can be used for it, and that the same is true for Pali.? It is interesting, indeed, that Sanskrit and Pali are the only languagesthat come to mind that are used across a large area, with a sacral aspect although also used (in the case of Sanskrit) for many diverse secular purposes, which are not linked with a single script.? How different from Greek, Latin, Hebrew, Chinese, Arabic, Persian, and Church Slavonic.? It seems that with them the script enters into the sociolinguistic definition of the language in a way it doesn't in Sanskrit and Pali.
>>
>> Happy New Year to everyone.
>>
>> Allen
>>
>>
>> Allen W. Thrasher, Ph.D.
>> Senior Reference Librarian
>> Team Coordinator
>> South Asia Team, Asian Division
>> Library of Congress, Jefferson Building 150
>> 101 Independence Ave., S.E.
>> Washington, DC 20540-4810
>> tel. 202-707-3732; fax 202-707-1724; athr at loc.gov
>> The opinions expressed do not necessarily reflect those of the Library of Congress.
>
> ------------------------------
> Prof. Dr. Walter Slaje
> Hermann-L?ns-Str. 1
> D-99425 Weimar
> (Germany)
> www.indologie.uni-halle.de
>
> Ego ex animi mei sententia spondeo ac polliceor
> studia humanitatis impigro labore culturum et provecturum
> non sordidi lucri causa nec ad vanam captandam gloriam,
> sed quo magis veritas propagetur et lux eius, qua salus
> humani generis continetur, clarius effulgeat.
> Vindobonae, die XXI. mensis Novembris MCMLXXXIII.
>
>
> ? ? ?The INTERNET now has a personality. YOURS! See your Yahoo! Homepage. http://in.yahoo.com/
>



-- 


Dr. Whitney Cox
Department of the Languages and Cultures of South Asia,
School of Oriental and African Studies
Thornhaugh Street, Russell Square
London WC1H 0XG



      The INTERNET now has a personality. YOURS! See your Yahoo! Homepage. http://in.yahoo.com/




From dbhattacharya2004 at YAHOO.CO.IN  Wed Jan  6 06:19:44 2010
From: dbhattacharya2004 at YAHOO.CO.IN (Dipak Bhattacharya)
Date: Wed, 06 Jan 10 11:49:44 +0530
Subject: Well, mzybe not so cool: Sanskrit script?
In-Reply-To: <4B4370E10200003A00072A61@ntgwgate.loc.gov>
Message-ID: <161227088120.23782.8956653046910955743.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

?
<Does anyone know if the habit of spending the winter in the plains or in Jammu was already established before the Dogra Raj?? >
In?earlier times leaving the valley meant excommunication. A ceremony was held?in honour of the 'departed'. A trip outside?was not a normal thing. Those who made did not return. At present there is no trace of the practice and knowledgeable Pandits,?those who live outside and those in Kashmir, never think of the return of those old days and custoims.
DB
?
. 
--- On Wed, 6/1/10, Allen W Thrasher <athr at LOC.GOV> wrote:


From: Allen W Thrasher <athr at LOC.GOV>
Subject: Re: Well, mzybe not so cool: Sanskrit script?
To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk
Date: Wednesday, 6 January, 2010, 3:33 AM


"Possibly, although it is always somewhat difficult to guess intentions of 
Sanskritists - if I may have this little joke.
Judging from harder facts, i.e. from concomitant religious and politicial 
changes, the Dogras re-established Hindu rule in Kashmir only after c. 500 years of Muslim and c. 30 years of Sikh rule. It is likely that in its wake also the influx of Hindu texts from India proper written in Devanagari increased considerably, from which a local shaping, known as "Kashmir Devanagari", developed."

The Valley was transferred to Gulab Singh in 1846, when the printing of Sanskrit was already underway in British India.? One would presume (??) that this made it significantly less expensive of money or effort to acquire books than before.? But to read those published in the north of British India one would have to know the Nagari or Bengali script.

Does anyone know if the habit of spending the winter in the plains or in Jammu was already established before the Dogra Raj?? Pandit friends of mine tell me their families used to go down to Jammu in the winter, and I gather the maharaja and muc of the government moved.? If many of the Pandits went to Jammu or someplace else to the south of the mountains in the winter, they might have had more opportunities to encounter Nagari than if they stayed in the Valley the year round.

Allen

Allen W. Thrasher, Ph.D.
Senior Reference Librarian
Team Coordinator
South Asia Team, Asian Division
Library of Congress, Jefferson Building 150
101 Independence Ave., S.E.
Washington, DC 20540-4810
tel. 202-707-3732; fax 202-707-1724; athr at loc.gov
The opinions expressed do not necessarily reflect those of the Library of Congress.



      The INTERNET now has a personality. YOURS! See your Yahoo! Homepage. http://in.yahoo.com/




From 171318 at SOAS.AC.UK  Wed Jan  6 14:37:15 2010
From: 171318 at SOAS.AC.UK (LEON Goldman)
Date: Wed, 06 Jan 10 14:37:15 +0000
Subject: Strewing barhis- in a line?
Message-ID: <161227088130.23782.8270911354092723717.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Dear List Members,
                             Are there any examples of Vedic rituals in
which the *barhis-* (or portion thereof) is to be strewn in a line, perhaps
along a North/South or East/West axis?
I'm searching (perhaps in vain) for possible parallels to a Zoroastrian
ritual in which one-third of the *baresman-* is required to be spread along
(or possibly against) the path of the sun.
Any suggestions would be most warmly received.
With thanks,
Leon Goldman (PhD candidate, SOAS).




From dolenev at GMAIL.COM  Wed Jan  6 13:09:31 2010
From: dolenev at GMAIL.COM (Dmitry Olenev)
Date: Wed, 06 Jan 10 15:09:31 +0200
Subject: Book
In-Reply-To: <a0624088dc769431b9575@192.168.1.2>
Message-ID: <161227088125.23782.2190264306277713386.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Patrick Olivelle <jpo at uts.cc.utexas.edu>
Date: 2010/1/5
Subject: Book
To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk


Dear All:

Since it appears now to be kosher to let everyone know about the publication
on one's own book, here is my edition and translation of the Vaisnava
Dharmasastra (aka Visnu-smriti) published in the Harvard Oriental Series (#
73).

The Law Code of Visnu. ISBN 9780674051393


Thanks.

Patrick Olivelle




From athr at LOC.GOV  Wed Jan  6 20:14:41 2010
From: athr at LOC.GOV (Allen W Thrasher)
Date: Wed, 06 Jan 10 15:14:41 -0500
Subject: Well, mzybe not so cool: Sanskrit script?
In-Reply-To: <455378.39614.qm@web8606.mail.in.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <161227088132.23782.17716715783083774011.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

"<Does anyone know if the habit of spending the winter in the plains or in Jammu was already established before the Dogra Raj?  >
In earlier times leaving the valley meant excommunication. A ceremony was held in honour of the 'departed'. A trip outside was not a normal thing. Those who made did not return. At present there is no trace of the practice and knowledgeable Pandits, those who live outside and those in Kashmir, never think of the return of those old days and custoims.
DB"

Thanks for this extraordinary fact.  I don't recall hearing of the brahmins of any other part of the subcontinent regarding migration as a cause for excommunication.

My Pandit friends (baby boomers) had ancestors in the Maharaja's administration.  They told me that when one was posted to the western parts of the kingdom, which are now in Azad Kashmir, their families would say goodbye to them as to someone going off to their death. But they said nothing about punishment, just about danger.

Allen

Allen W. Thrasher, Ph.D.
Senior Reference Librarian
Team Coordinator
South Asia Team, Asian Division
Library of Congress, Jefferson Building 150
101 Independence Ave., S.E.
Washington, DC 20540-4810
tel. 202-707-3732; fax 202-707-1724; athr at loc.gov
The opinions expressed do not necessarily reflect those of the Library of Congress.




From athr at LOC.GOV  Wed Jan  6 20:15:43 2010
From: athr at LOC.GOV (Allen W Thrasher)
Date: Wed, 06 Jan 10 15:15:43 -0500
Subject: Well, mzybe not so cool: Sanskrit script?
In-Reply-To: <4407FF83733745CEB2AA3A59758AD984@SlajePC>
Message-ID: <161227088135.23782.7160141034307429543.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

"The most detailed accounts of Ranjit Singh's (Sikh) rule predating the 
Dogras I am aware of are the voluminous contemporary travel reports by 
William Moorcroft, Johann Martin Honigberger, Baron von Huegel, and Godfrey 
Thomas Vigne. They are likely to provide useful information in this regard."

Thanks for the tip, Walter.


Allen




From ashok.aklujkar at UBC.CA  Thu Jan  7 06:26:16 2010
From: ashok.aklujkar at UBC.CA (Ashok Aklujkar)
Date: Wed, 06 Jan 10 22:26:16 -0800
Subject: kashyap as default gotra (ritual manual?)
In-Reply-To: <25063_1262788350_1262788350_297043.65619.qm@web23108.mail.ird.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <161227088137.23782.1109171619398019889.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

On 10-01-06 6:32 AM, "Benjamin Slade" <ingeardagum at YAHOO.CO.UK> wrote:

>...  Kashyapa ... gotra ... the textual attestations of/justifications for
> this practice 

See Kane, P.V. History of Dharmasastra, 1941, vol. Ii, part I, p. 495 and
497. If you do not have access to this work, I will copy the relevant lines
for you.

ashok aklujkar




From ersand at HUM.KU.DK  Thu Jan  7 07:49:28 2010
From: ersand at HUM.KU.DK (Erik Reenberg Sand)
Date: Thu, 07 Jan 10 08:49:28 +0100
Subject: Contact for M.L. Manjul?
Message-ID: <161227088139.23782.1029985517936701844.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Dear list members,

 

Can anyone give me the email address of Mr. V. L. Manjul, former head
librarian of the Bhanadarkar Oriental Institute?

 

Regards

 

Erik Reenberg Sand

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Erik Reenberg Sand

History of Religions Section

Department of Cross-Cultural and Regional Studies

University of Copenhagen

Artillerivej 86

DK-2300 Copenhagen S

Denmark

 




From athr at LOC.GOV  Thu Jan  7 14:30:57 2010
From: athr at LOC.GOV (Allen W Thrasher)
Date: Thu, 07 Jan 10 09:30:57 -0500
Subject: Well, mzybe not so cool: Sanskrit script?
Message-ID: <161227088144.23782.17228968568651887599.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

What would happen if the person unexpectedly returned?  Was his property distributed to the usual heirs after the quasi-memorial service, or after a certain period of time?  Was it anything like the social and legal situation of someone who took sannyasa and then came back wanting to get his property and wife back - i.e. that's out because you're really dead?

Allen

>>> Dipak Bhattacharya <dbhattacharya2004 at YAHOO.CO.IN> 1/7/2010 6:08:15 AM >>>

I should not be misunderstood. No punishment was meant. It was just giving up one. Note the ceremony in honour of the departed. Perhaps ignorance of  "devilish" outside world could be at work.
--- On Thu, 7/1/10, Allen W Thrasher <athr at LOC.GOV> wrote:


From: Allen W Thrasher <athr at LOC.GOV>
Subject: Re: Well, mzybe not so cool: Sanskrit script?
To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk
Date: Thursday, 7 January, 2010, 1:44 AM


"<Does anyone know if the habit of spending the winter in the plains or in Jammu was already established before the Dogra Raj?  >
In earlier times leaving the valley meant excommunication. A ceremony was held in honour of the 'departed'. A trip outside was not a normal thing. Those who made did not return. At present there is no trace of the practice and knowledgeable Pandits, those who live outside and those in Kashmir, never think of the return of those old days and custoims.
DB"

Thanks for this extraordinary fact.  I don't recall hearing of the brahmins of any other part of the subcontinent regarding migration as a cause for excommunication.

My Pandit friends (baby boomers) had ancestors in the Maharaja's administration.  They told me that when one was posted to the western parts of the kingdom, which are now in Azad Kashmir, their families would say goodbye to them as to someone going off to their death. But they said nothing about punishment, just about danger.

Allen

Allen W. Thrasher, Ph.D.
Senior Reference Librarian
Team Coordinator
South Asia Team, Asian Division
Library of Congress, Jefferson Building 150
101 Independence Ave., S.E.
Washington, DC 20540-4810
tel. 202-707-3732; fax 202-707-1724; athr at loc.gov
The opinions expressed do not necessarily reflect those of the Library of Congress.



      The INTERNET now has a personality. YOURS! See your Yahoo! Homepage. http://in.yahoo.com/




From hwtull at MSN.COM  Thu Jan  7 15:52:42 2010
From: hwtull at MSN.COM (Herman Tull)
Date: Thu, 07 Jan 10 10:52:42 -0500
Subject: Book
In-Reply-To: <d1c0c7391001070732l5c5cda50kfad10a0bef3ea106@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <161227088150.23782.8576336327783378104.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Is it "kosher" or "pukka"?  Of course, they are both related to cooking!

Cheers,

Herman Tull 

> Date: Thu, 7 Jan 2010 16:32:03 +0100
> From: wujastyk at GMAIL.COM
> Subject: Re: Book
> To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk
> 
> It's always been kosher to announce one's publications - one of the original
> purposes of this forum.
> 
> What has been deprecated is publishers posting advertisements.
> 
> In other words, this list clings vainly to a once dominant but now
> completely outdated idea that the internet shouldn't be used for commercial
> purposes.  Ha ha.
> 
> Best, and congratulations on the new volume.
> 
> Dominik
> 
> 
> 2010/1/5 Patrick Olivelle <jpo at uts.cc.utexas.edu>
> 
> > Dear All:
> >
> > Since it appears now to be kosher to let everyone know about the
> > publication on one's own book, here is my edition and translation of the
> > Vaisnava Dharmasastra (aka Visnu-smriti) published in the Harvard Oriental
> > Series (# 73).
> >
> > The Law Code of Visnu. ISBN 9780674051393
> >
> >
> > Thanks.
> >
> > Patrick Olivelle
> >
 		 	   		  
_________________________________________________________________
Your E-mail and More On-the-Go. Get Windows Live Hotmail Free.
http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/196390709/direct/01/




From wujastyk at GMAIL.COM  Thu Jan  7 15:32:03 2010
From: wujastyk at GMAIL.COM (Dominik Wujastyk)
Date: Thu, 07 Jan 10 16:32:03 +0100
Subject: Book
In-Reply-To: <a0624088dc769431b9575@192.168.1.2>
Message-ID: <161227088146.23782.17923343007856735408.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

It's always been kosher to announce one's publications - one of the original
purposes of this forum.

What has been deprecated is publishers posting advertisements.

In other words, this list clings vainly to a once dominant but now
completely outdated idea that the internet shouldn't be used for commercial
purposes.  Ha ha.

Best, and congratulations on the new volume.

Dominik


2010/1/5 Patrick Olivelle <jpo at uts.cc.utexas.edu>

> Dear All:
>
> Since it appears now to be kosher to let everyone know about the
> publication on one's own book, here is my edition and translation of the
> Vaisnava Dharmasastra (aka Visnu-smriti) published in the Harvard Oriental
> Series (# 73).
>
> The Law Code of Visnu. ISBN 9780674051393
>
>
> Thanks.
>
> Patrick Olivelle
>




From dbhattacharya2004 at YAHOO.CO.IN  Thu Jan  7 11:08:15 2010
From: dbhattacharya2004 at YAHOO.CO.IN (Dipak Bhattacharya)
Date: Thu, 07 Jan 10 16:38:15 +0530
Subject: Well, mzybe not so cool: Sanskrit script?
In-Reply-To: <4B44A8E10200003A00072C5F@ntgwgate.loc.gov>
Message-ID: <161227088142.23782.1629534090857403577.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

I should not be misunderstood. No punishment was meant. It was just giving up one. Note the ceremony in honour of the departed. Perhaps ignorance of? "devilish" outside world?could be?at work.
--- On Thu, 7/1/10, Allen W Thrasher <athr at LOC.GOV> wrote:


From: Allen W Thrasher <athr at LOC.GOV>
Subject: Re: Well, mzybe not so cool: Sanskrit script?
To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk
Date: Thursday, 7 January, 2010, 1:44 AM


"<Does anyone know if the habit of spending the winter in the plains or in Jammu was already established before the Dogra Raj?? >
In earlier times leaving the valley meant excommunication. A ceremony was held in honour of the 'departed'. A trip outside was not a normal thing. Those who made did not return. At present there is no trace of the practice and knowledgeable Pandits, those who live outside and those in Kashmir, never think of the return of those old days and custoims.
DB"

Thanks for this extraordinary fact.? I don't recall hearing of the brahmins of any other part of the subcontinent regarding migration as a cause for excommunication.

My Pandit friends (baby boomers) had ancestors in the Maharaja's administration.? They told me that when one was posted to the western parts of the kingdom, which are now in Azad Kashmir, their families would say goodbye to them as to someone going off to their death. But they said nothing about punishment, just about danger.

Allen

Allen W. Thrasher, Ph.D.
Senior Reference Librarian
Team Coordinator
South Asia Team, Asian Division
Library of Congress, Jefferson Building 150
101 Independence Ave., S.E.
Washington, DC 20540-4810
tel. 202-707-3732; fax 202-707-1724; athr at loc.gov
The opinions expressed do not necessarily reflect those of the Library of Congress.



      The INTERNET now has a personality. YOURS! See your Yahoo! Homepage. http://in.yahoo.com/




From gruenen at SUB.UNI-GOETTINGEN.DE  Thu Jan  7 16:06:00 2010
From: gruenen at SUB.UNI-GOETTINGEN.DE (Gruenendahl, Reinhold)
Date: Thu, 07 Jan 10 17:06:00 +0100
Subject: GRETIL update #362
Message-ID: <161227088153.23782.6120395224672769295.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

GRETIL is pleased to be able to report the following addition(s) to its
collection:

Hala: Sattasai
<http://www.sub.uni-goettingen.de/ebene_1/fiindolo/gretil.htm#HalaSattasai> 

 

__________________________________________________________________________ 

"GRETIL is intended as a cumulative register of the numerous download sites
for electronic texts in Indian languages." (from the 2001 "mission
statement") 

GRETIL - Goettingen Register of Electronic Texts in Indian Languages: 

http://www.sub.uni-goettingen.de/ebene_1/fiindolo/gretil.htm




From dbhattacharya2004 at YAHOO.CO.IN  Thu Jan  7 15:34:21 2010
From: dbhattacharya2004 at YAHOO.CO.IN (Dipak Bhattacharya)
Date: Thu, 07 Jan 10 21:04:21 +0530
Subject: Well, mzybe not so cool: Sanskrit script?
In-Reply-To: <20100107T093057Z_AE4F00170000@loc.gov>
Message-ID: <161227088148.23782.10804541624184605280.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

No such cases were related to me.?That would hardly happen in the nineteenth century or before tho the matter requires some further spadework.?Would an Alaskan go back from South of Canada unless he had hunch of unknown gold mines? ?South of Kashmir India offered more opportunities.? Remember rhe Nehrus?and other lordly families? Pandits were persecuted and fled Kashmir in the very late medieval period. A whole branch settled in?Karnatak. But I should not remark before doing further work that is not? possible just now.
One known fact. In the fifteenth century a Kashmiri scholar had gone to Karnatak, had learnt something there and came back to be hugely welcomed.?This matter has been repeatedly emphasised and recently?contested, quite wrongly according to me. The Introductons to the volumes of the Paippalaada-Samhitaa (AS, Kolkata)?will furnish the required information.?What cannot be denied is that the withdrawal syndromes grew?later.
Best 
DB?
--- On Thu, 7/1/10, Allen W Thrasher <athr at LOC.GOV> wrote:


From: Allen W Thrasher <athr at LOC.GOV>
Subject: Re: Well, mzybe not so cool: Sanskrit script?
To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk
Date: Thursday, 7 January, 2010, 8:00 PM


What would happen if the person unexpectedly returned?? Was his property distributed to the usual heirs after the quasi-memorial service, or after a certain period of time?? Was it anything like the social and legal situation of someone who took sannyasa and then came back wanting to get his property and wife back - i.e. that's out because you're really dead?

Allen

>>> Dipak Bhattacharya <dbhattacharya2004 at YAHOO.CO.IN> 1/7/2010 6:08:15 AM >>>

I should not be misunderstood. No punishment was meant. It was just giving up one. Note the ceremony in honour of the departed. Perhaps ignorance of? "devilish" outside world could be at work.
--- On Thu, 7/1/10, Allen W Thrasher <athr at LOC.GOV> wrote:


From: Allen W Thrasher <athr at LOC.GOV>
Subject: Re: Well, mzybe not so cool: Sanskrit script?
To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk
Date: Thursday, 7 January, 2010, 1:44 AM


"<Does anyone know if the habit of spending the winter in the plains or in Jammu was already established before the Dogra Raj?? >
In earlier times leaving the valley meant excommunication. A ceremony was held in honour of the 'departed'. A trip outside was not a normal thing. Those who made did not return. At present there is no trace of the practice and knowledgeable Pandits, those who live outside and those in Kashmir, never think of the return of those old days and custoims.
DB"

Thanks for this extraordinary fact.? I don't recall hearing of the brahmins of any other part of the subcontinent regarding migration as a cause for excommunication.

My Pandit friends (baby boomers) had ancestors in the Maharaja's administration.? They told me that when one was posted to the western parts of the kingdom, which are now in Azad Kashmir, their families would say goodbye to them as to someone going off to their death. But they said nothing about punishment, just about danger.

Allen

Allen W. Thrasher, Ph.D.
Senior Reference Librarian
Team Coordinator
South Asia Team, Asian Division
Library of Congress, Jefferson Building 150
101 Independence Ave., S.E.
Washington, DC 20540-4810
tel. 202-707-3732; fax 202-707-1724; athr at loc.gov
The opinions expressed do not necessarily reflect those of the Library of Congress.



? ? ? The INTERNET now has a personality. YOURS! See your Yahoo! Homepage. http://in.yahoo.com/


      The INTERNET now has a personality. YOURS! See your Yahoo! Homepage. http://in.yahoo.com/




From dbhattacharya2004 at YAHOO.CO.IN  Sat Jan  9 13:17:04 2010
From: dbhattacharya2004 at YAHOO.CO.IN (Dipak Bhattacharya)
Date: Sat, 09 Jan 10 18:47:04 +0530
Subject: The History of Dharmashatras
Message-ID: <161227088155.23782.3301993757856075400.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Dear Colleagues,
Could anybody tell if the History of Dharmashastras by P.V.Kane is available online?
Best 
DB?


      The INTERNET now has a personality. YOURS! See your Yahoo! Homepage. http://in.yahoo.com/




From axel.michaels at YAHOO.DE  Sun Jan 10 09:50:21 2010
From: axel.michaels at YAHOO.DE (Axel Michaels)
Date: Sun, 10 Jan 10 09:50:21 +0000
Subject: hoax
Message-ID: <161227088157.23782.3182701148648580656.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Dear all,
I am very sorry but by mistake I seem to have contributed to the spread of a hoax ("Axel Michaels sent you a private message on Feed Share - please respond"). Kindly just ignore and delete it.
 Best greetings and wishes for 2010
Axel Michaels
------------------------------
Prof. Dr. Axel Michaels
Sprecher des SFB 619 ("Ritualdynamik"), Kodirektor des Exzellenzclusters "Asia and Europe in a Global Context"

Universit?t Heidelberg, S?dasien-Institut, Im Neuenheimer Feld 330, D-69120 Heidelberg
Tel. +49-6221-548917 / Fax +49-6221-546338
http://www.sai.uni-heidelberg.de/abt/IND/index.html -- http://www.asia-europe.uni-heidelberg.de/ -- www.ritualdynamik.uni-hd.de -- Axel.Michaels at urz.uni-heidelberg.de -- michaels at asia-europe.uni-heidelberg.de





From franco at RZ.UNI-LEIPZIG.DE  Sun Jan 10 16:29:10 2010
From: franco at RZ.UNI-LEIPZIG.DE (Eli Franco)
Date: Sun, 10 Jan 10 17:29:10 +0100
Subject: Publication announcement
In-Reply-To: <eceac9c01001051549y4c1c6d49o9e3d489d19936484@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <161227088159.23782.9218303911643160643.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Erich Frauwallner, Philosophie des Buddhismus. Akademie Verlag, Berlin
2010. 282 pp.

This fifth edition in a new format is prefaced by Karin Preisendanz 
and myself. The (German) preface (pp. XII-LIII) deals with Frauwallner's
life and work, reproduces his original scheme for the History of Indian
Philosophy, contains a full bibliography of his writings, and provides an
annotated bibliography of selected further readings on South Asian Buddhism
with emphasis on philosophy. 

Some of you may remember the heated discussion in this list about German and
Austrian Indology and National Socialism. The preface shows that the two are
not unconnected in Frauwallner's case.

With best wishes for the New Year,
Eli Franco




From filipsky at RZONE.CZ  Sun Jan 10 17:08:26 2010
From: filipsky at RZONE.CZ (=?utf-8?Q?Jan_Filipsk=C3=BD?=)
Date: Sun, 10 Jan 10 18:08:26 +0100
Subject: Czech Dictionary of Anthropology
Message-ID: <161227088161.23782.9156353654357352406.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Dear All,

 

those list members who read Czech may be interested in the following
encyclopedic tool published December last:

"The Dictionary of Anthropology (with consideration of the history of
literature and art) or What Every Human Should Know about Humans" by
Jaroslav Malina et al., Akademicke nakladatelstvi CERM, Brno 2009. ISBN
978-80-7204-560-0.

 

The printed part (293 p.) contains more than 170 specimen entries, the
complete dictionary comprising the total of 20 000 entries (4737 p.) is
available on the attached CD.

The utility value of this publication is significantly increased by its free
internet access at
<http://is.muni.cz/do/1431/UAntrBiol/el/antropos/index.html>
http://is.muni.cz/do/1431/UAntrBiol/el/antropos/index.html

Through this gesture, the authors and publishers have joined an
international initiative in support of open access to scientific research in
the spirit of the Berlin Declaration of 2003, so far signed by nearly 300
prestigious universities and research institutes from all over the world
(for the Czech Republic: the Academy of Sciences and the Czech Science
Foundation), thereby aligning themselves with the pioneers of the idea of
Free Online Scholarship.

 

In the over one hundred-year long history of Czech anthropology, this
dictionary is the first of its kind. It was compiled by leading Czech
specialists for students of anthropology and related disciplines
(archaeology, biology, economics, political science, ethnology, history,
culturology, linguistics, media studies, medicine, law, psychology, religion
studies, sexology and sociology), for teachers and students of secondary
school, and for the general public. The team of 170 authors (including my
humble self) was headed by the foremost Czech anthropologist prof. Jaroslav
Malina, Director of the Anthropological Institute of the Masaryk University
in Brno.

 

The dictionary was systematically constructed as an integral database of
knowledge obtained in the area of the sciences of humans, society and
culture within the context of development in anthropology and its
sub-disciplines, research methods, paradigms and theories. In contrast to
standard Anglo-Saxon dictionaries, its thematic area of interest expands to
include the belles-lettres and fine arts. A complex variety of entries
dedicated to the area of art culture, which has been largely omitted by
traditional anthropology, has been integrated into the dictionary.
Publishing this dictionary can therefore be considered an expansion of the
epistemological background of anthropology as well as a contribution to the
development of the anthropology of art, which has not yet been
comprehensively discussed at the international level. The topics are
explored broadly and include the origins of basic livelihood strategies
(hunting, agriculture), settlement (urbanization), social organization and
culture (urban civilization, the early state), technology (stone tools,
ceramics, metallurgy), kinship, sexuality, marriage, rituals, law,
mythology, religion, writing and literature. In their origins these topics
are usually associated with the areas of the Ancient Near East, the Far East
and the Indian subcontinent, where much inspiration and ideas for other
civilizations have arisen, including the European civilization.

The Dictionary of Anthropology can be used as a regular reference work as
well as an anthropological textbook.

 

Best regards,

Jan Filipsky, Oriental Institute

Praha

 

 




From fransfe at TIN.IT  Sun Jan 10 19:56:23 2010
From: fransfe at TIN.IT (Francesco Sferra)
Date: Sun, 10 Jan 10 20:56:23 +0100
Subject: Manuscripta Buddhica Vol. 1
In-Reply-To: <eceac9c01001051549y4c1c6d49o9e3d489d19936484@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <161227088164.23782.14235700481768858507.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Dear Colleagues,

I am glad to announce the publication of the first volume of
the series Manuscripta Buddhica, a sub-series,  edited by Harunaga
Isaacson and myself, of the Rome Oriental Series.

The first volume, which is entitled Sanskrit Texts from Giuseppe
Tucci's Collection. Part I, and was edited by me,
contains  information on the Sanskrit manuscripts gathered by Tucci
during his missions, information on the history of these missions and
eight essays, mainly on unedited texts or manuscripts. Each essay is
accompanied by reproductions of the manuscripts studied.

The table of contents:

Foreword by Gherardo Gnoli, p. 7
Preface "Manuscripta Buddhica" by Harunaga Isaacson and Francesco  
Sferra, p. 9
Editorial Note and Acknowledgments by Francesco Sferra, p. 11

PART I
Francesco Sferra: Sanskrit Manuscripts and Photographs of Sanskrit
Manuscripts in Giuseppe Tucci?s Collection, p. 15
Oscar Nalesini: Assembling Loose Pages, Gathering Fragments of the
Past: Giuseppe Tucci and His Wanderings Throughout Tibet and the
Himalayas, 1926-1954, p. 79

PART II
Vincent Eltschinger: ?ankaranandana?s Sarvaj?asiddhi. A Preliminary
Report, p. 115
Eli Franco: Variant Readings from Tucci?s Photographs of the
Yoginir?ayaprakara?a Manuscript, p. 157
Paolo Giunta: The ?ryadhvaj?grakey?ra n?ma dh?ri??. Diplomatic  
Edition
of MS Tucci 3.2.16, p. 187
Albrecht Hanisch: Sarvarak?ita?s Ma?ic??aj?taka.  
Reproduction of the
Codex Unicus with Diplomatic Transcript and Palaeographic Introduction
to the Bhaik?uk? Script, p. 195
Kano Kazuo: Two Short Glosses on Yog?c?ra Texts by Vairocanaraksita:
Vi??ik???k?viv?ti and *Dharmadharmat?vibh?gaviv?ti, p. 343
Kano Kazuo: A Preliminary Report on Newly Identified Text Fragments in
??rad? Script from Zwa lu Monastery in the Tucci Collection, p. 381
Birgit Kellner: A Missing Page from Durvekami?ra?s  
Dharmottaraprad?pa
on Ny?yabindu 3.15 and 3.18 in Context, p. 401
Birgit Kellner and Francesco Sferra: A Palm-leaf Manuscript of
Dharmak?rti?s Pram??av?rttika from the Collection kept by the  
Nepalese
r?jaguru Hemar?ja ?arman, p. 423
Contributors, p. 485

Copies can be ordered from the IsIAO Mediastore
(http://www.mediastore.isiao.it/ ).

Yours sincerely,

Francesco Sferra




From joseph.walser at TUFTS.EDU  Mon Jan 11 20:10:29 2010
From: joseph.walser at TUFTS.EDU (Joseph Walser)
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 10 15:10:29 -0500
Subject: article
In-Reply-To: <20080918115810.BEH33129@m4500-03.uchicago.edu>
Message-ID: <161227088166.23782.6362512350094647932.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

How is the editing going?
-j

-- 
Joseph Walser
Associate Professor
Department of Religion
Tufts University
314 Eaton Hall
Medford, MA 02155

Office: 617 627-2322




From joseph.walser at TUFTS.EDU  Mon Jan 11 20:15:15 2010
From: joseph.walser at TUFTS.EDU (Joseph Walser)
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 10 15:15:15 -0500
Subject: article -- apologies
In-Reply-To: <4B4B85B5.1010401@tufts.edu>
Message-ID: <161227088168.23782.16857622780227101371.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Dear All,
Sorry for sending a personal message to the list. Not exactly sure what 
happened.

Joseph Walser wrote:
> How is the editing going?
> -j
>

-- 
Joseph Walser
Associate Professor
Department of Religion
Tufts University
314 Eaton Hall
Medford, MA 02155

Office: 617 627-2322




From ashok.aklujkar at UBC.CA  Tue Jan 12 05:11:08 2010
From: ashok.aklujkar at UBC.CA (Ashok Aklujkar)
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 10 21:11:08 -0800
Subject: Well, mzybe not so cool: Sanskrit script?
In-Reply-To: <4415_1262723178_1262723178_4B43A069.4020606@uni-muenchen.de>
Message-ID: <161227088173.23782.10331174023334225210.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Dr. Dominic Goodall's excellent posting, "script and Sanskrit," reminded me
that I had forgotten to finalize and mail a text I had drafted on 11
January. DG  has made my first point in a much better way -- with precise
evidence and mention of a rewarding connection with the conflation
phenomenon noticed in mss.

My text ran thus:

I have benefited considerably from the discussion that has so far taken
place. I wish to add five points to it.

1. While concluding that the association of Sanskrit with Devanagari has
grown over the latter half of the 19th century and most of the 20th century
and that historically Skt did not have exclusive association with any
particular script, we should not overlook the fact that there was a wide
enough basis in manuscripts for Skt to make its association with Nagari
stronger and stronger. From Varanasi to Lahore and from Delhi to Ahmedabad
(if not beyond these geographical specifications which I have chosen
somewhat arbitrarily), even pre-British mss of Skt (and Prakrit) works  are
written in forms of Nagari that differ only in limited and relatively minor
ways from Devanagari. Just as Hindi with its various dialects had a natural
advantage when an official language was to be decided for independent India,
Nagari in its several mutually close forms had a natural advantage when
printing technology was to be used. The spread and growing acceptance of
Devanagari should, therefore, not be viewed as primarily coming from some
kind of British policy. Rather, at an earlier time, the policy is more
likely to have been shaped by the ground realities, although in a later time
it could have affected the ground reality.

2. When we come to the late 19th and early 20th century, the point that was
made in an earlier posting regarding the absence of ;Saaradaa printing fonts
should be taken seriously. See p. 9 fn 12 of Kaul, Mrinal; Aklujkar, Ashok.
2008.  (eds) Linguistic Traditions of Kashmir. New Delhi: D.K. Printworld.

3. In just about the same period, the publications of the Nirnaya Sagar
Press and the Venkatesh Steam Press seem to have made a great contribution
to the spread of Devanagari and to strengthening its association with Skt.
The inexpensive, accurate and attractively printed  publications of these
presses were very popular (I intend "attractively printed" as applicable
only to the NSP). I have heard it from a teacher of mine that Suniti Kumar
Chatterjee used to express this view in his lectures. Jivananda Vidyasagara
also must have made a similar contribution in an earlier period when
editions were not copyrighted; cf. pp. 167-168 of Aklujkar, Ashok. 2008.
"What more can the editors of Sanskrit texts do?" in Tattvabodha, vol. II,
(ed) Chakravarty, Kalyan Kumar. New Delhi: National Mission for Manuscripts,
pp. 165-189. 

4. It is my impression that Devanagari was generally referred to as "Hindi
script" in South India in the first three decades after India's
independence. Its identification as "Skt script" is relatively later.
However, my impression may be based on very limited experience or faulty
memory. 

5. Some reflection of what the situation could have been like when
government policy began to promote Nagari can be seen in the current state
of Gujarati. Publications in Gujarati language, especially the ones
concerning Skt, Prakrit, Jainism etc., that is, concerning topics of
potentially pan-Indian interest, frequently use Nagari instead of or in
addition to the traditional Gujarati script. (Marathi has gone beyond this
stage. It has completely given up its Mo.dii script, a cousin of the
traditional Gujarati script.)

Ashok Aklujkar

P.S.

We should note that "mzybe" in the title of this discussion thread is a typo
for "maybe". Otherwise, a hundred years down the road, some historical
linguist will use "mzybe" to build an elaborate theory about the kind of
English we spoke in our time! 




From mrinalkaul81 at GMAIL.COM  Tue Jan 12 06:46:44 2010
From: mrinalkaul81 at GMAIL.COM (Mrinal Kaul)
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 10 01:46:44 -0500
Subject: Well, mzybe not so cool: Sanskrit script?
In-Reply-To: <C771446C.3572%ashok.aklujkar@ubc.ca>
Message-ID: <161227088175.23782.17411334179472244341.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Dear Indologists, 

I think scholars like Professor Walter Slaje and others have made almost all important points and that leaves nothing much for me to say. We know that ??rad? has been in use in Kashmir since 9th CE. The Brahm? script used in the North-western part of Ancient India underwent a change circa 9th CE and the proto-??rad? script was created. In the regions like Himachal Pradesh and Jammu the common script used was ??kar?. But this script remained popular only from 9th to 14th cen. CE. Today, even the local people of Jammu or Himachal do not know that the script of their language was ??kar?. They commonly use the Devanagari script now.

We do not have any strong evidence to show why the script in Kashmir is called ??rad? (apart from the reasons cited by Prof Slaje). We usually allude to the local heresy. As for the Kashmiri language, I do not think that there is much literature available that is written in ??rad? script. The oldest being the B???sukath?, the Sukhadukhacarita, and the Mah?nayaprak??a. Later we do find the V?ks of Lal Ded (14th CE) and R?pa Bhavan? (17th CE) also written in ??rad?. Of course with the advent Islamic rule the use of Persio-Arbic script was also introduced that continues till date. The peculiar phenomenon with Kashmir was that one could find pandits well versed both in Sanskrit and Persian languages. A well know example of this was Pandit Ishvar Kaul (1833-1893 CE) besides many others. This feature made many pandits use Nastalique for writing Sanskrit. I knew some people who could only read Sanskrit in Nastalique. There is still a good collection of Sanskrit Mss preserved in the Oriental Research Library and the Sri Pratap Museum Library in Srinagar those are written in the Nastalique script. In fact when I used to share this with my other non-Kashmiri Sanskritists, they were always astonished. 

Grierson has tried to use both the Devanagari and the Nastalique in his Kashmiri manual, dictionary etc. Some earlier pandits like Srinath Tickoo and others have tried to employ a peculiar quality of ??rad? script to produce the typical sounds of Kashmiri language, but, in my opinion, they have failed. The same scheme is also employed by Mukundram Shastri in the Kashmiri story that he writes in the second part of the eighth volume of the "Linguistic Survey of India". Today the majority of pandits use Devanagari for writing Kashmiri. They also justify that the Devanagari is the one and only script in which Kashmiri can be best expressed. On the other hand the Nastalique is the script recognized by the Indian constitution and all the books published in Kashmiri language by the Sahitya Academy or the Jammu and Kashmir Academy of Art, Culture and Languages are printed in the Nastalique script. I guess Nastalique is also very popular among the Kashmiri Musalmans and Devanagari amongst the Kashmiri pandits. The use of Nastalique for writing Kashmiri language is also based only on the usage of 'zer', 'zabar' and 'pesh', those, I am told, do not convey the best sounds of Kashmiri language. The ??rad? was mostly used for writing Sanskrit alone. The ??rad? script never had a printing press. This also played a major role in the extinction of the script in the valley besides many others. The first book to be printed in the ??rad? script was a Kashmiri translation of the Bible (I do not have the reference with me right now). All I can recall is that it was printed outside of Kashmir valley using big full page blocks engraved on metallic surfaces. 

The Jammu and Kashmir Research and Publication Department that was launched by Maharaja Pratap Singh in 1900 CE used to loan ??rad? Mss from the local pandits and transcribed them into the Devanagari script to make a press copy of the text. These press copies were sent either to Bombay, Pune or Allahabad for printing. I guess there was no Devanagari printing press in Kashmir that point of time. I can also recall that Pandit Keshav Bhatta Jyotshi who was a famous priest and a religious activist in Kashmir had got many of the Karma-k??da books printed from Mumbai on his own expenses. I think, later he also owned a press in Srinagar. I think the Devanagari was revived in Kashmir by Keshava Bhatta even though the use of Persio-Arabic script is still continued by the local priests. Some priests, as I have witnessed, are more comfortable with the Persio-Arabic script than the Devanagari. They can read Sanskrit faster in Nastalique than Devanagari. Most of the Karma-k??da books are published in both the scripts for the convenience of the readers. The Kashmiri almanac is also published in both the script every year till date that contains all sort of Sanskrit prayers in both the scripts besides the yearly calendar. 

Maharaja Ranbir Singh (1830-1885 CE) was a great patron of Sanskrit and Persian. He established a big translation department in Jammu where he employed pandits from Kashmir to transcribe the ??rad? Mss into the Devanagari. Eventually all these Mss today form a part of the Ranbir Sanskrit Research Library (formerly Raghunath Temple Library). The Devanagari written by these Pandits came to be known as Kashmirian Devanagari. I also hear that Pandits were some times demanded by the Kings of Varanasi and there was a small translation department there. I think there was more of transcribing going on in this translation department.

As far as I recall having heard from the Sanskrit pandits of Kashmir, they said that their forefathers used to sit back home in winters and copy the Bhagavad Gita, the Puranas, the Mahabharata etc. and then go to the plains of Indian subcontinent to sell their Mss. I presume these Mss should have been in Devanagari because not many people outside of Kashmir would know ??rad?. This suggests a probability that pandits were not completely alien to Devanagari. Of course crossing the huge mountain ranges to visit the plains of Indian subcontinent and then coming back would have been a strong challenge in those days.

Best.

Yours sincerely,

Mrinal Kaul


************************
Mrinal Kaul 
(Doctoral Fellow)
Concordia University
Department of Religion, FA-101
1455 de Maisonneuve Blvd West
Montreal, Quebec
CANADA H3G 1M8
*************************
Cell: +1-514-8028228
e-mail: mrinal.kaul at stx.oxon.org 
www.mrinalkaul.art.officelive.com




From mrinalkaul81 at GMAIL.COM  Tue Jan 12 13:21:20 2010
From: mrinalkaul81 at GMAIL.COM (Mrinal Kaul)
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 10 08:21:20 -0500
Subject: Well, may be not so cool: Sanskrit script?
In-Reply-To: <476445.32996.qm@web8603.mail.in.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <161227088182.23782.6622186796325973078.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Dear BD

Thanks for sharing this information. I guess it is not actually very helpful. We have known that one of the major reasons of naming the script as ??rad? might have been naming it after the goddess of learning in Kashmir called ??rad? (that is called Sarasvat? in the rest of India). ??rad? University was one of the major seats of learning in ancient India. A small portion of this university or temple is located in the form of ruins in the present Neelum valley (Neelum District) (also called so because of the Neelum river that was called Kishanganga in ancient sources) located in the modern Azad Kashmir or the Pakistan Occupied Kashmir in Pakistan. We have many epithets in Sanskrit literature of scholars having visited this university and got appreciation of the goddess ??rad? (I guess that also meant to get their work approved by the Sanskrit pandits of Kashmir who had high reputation at that point of time in the country).

But we still are not very sure if the name of the script was taken from the name of the goddess. Some years back I wanted to allude to the etymology of the word ??rad? as given in the beginning of the ??rad?tilakatantra, but later I came to know that this tantra was of east-Indian origin and had nothing much to do with Kashmir as such (I would have loved to cite the reference, but I have landed up in a university where the library is extremely poor). Yes, as you would agree, ??rad? does resemble N?gar? to a much extant, but at the same time is very different from it. I am afraid for Roth's conclusions are not very significant.

Best.

Mrinal Kaul   

************************
Mrinal Kaul
(Doctoral Fellow)
Concordia University
Department of Religion, FA-101
1455 de Maisonneuve Blvd West
Montreal, Quebec
CANADA H3G 1M8
*************************
Cell: +1-514-8028228
e-mail: mrinal.kaul at stx.oxon.org 
www.mrinalkaul.art.officelive.com

On 2010-01-12, at 7:26 AM, Dipak Bhattacharya wrote:

> Dear Scholars,
> As to the meaning of the term ??rad? the following excerpt from Roth?s Der Atharvaveda in Kaschmir (13-14) may be of interest 
> ?Herr T.H.thornton schreibt unter dem 23. Mai: ? 
> ?I have had an opportunity while at Srinagar of seeing a Ms. 
> written in the Sharda character, which appears to me to so closely 
> resemble the ordinary written Nagri that there would be no difficulty 
> to a Sanskrit Scholar interpreting it. ? --I may mention that the Sharda 
> character is the character in which the Kashmir Sanskrit Manuscripts 
> are ordinarily written. The name is said to be derived from Sardah
> a village in the vicinity of Chilas.?
> Roth comments 
> ?Gegen diese kaschmirische Etymologie besten einige Bedenken. Das Wort ist
> Wohl arabischen Ursprungs und bedeutet Urkundenschrift?? 
> In his support Roth cites shur?ah, shur?? and shar? meaning ?writer?, ?notary? and ?contract?.
> Best wishes
> DB
> 
> 




From dominic.goodall at GMAIL.COM  Tue Jan 12 03:58:09 2010
From: dominic.goodall at GMAIL.COM (Dominic Goodall)
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 10 09:28:09 +0530
Subject: scripts and Sanskrit
Message-ID: <161227088170.23782.16130197389848306185.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

In the discussion about scripts used for Sanskrit over the last few  
days, the widespread use of Devan?gar? (outside its "native" area)  
well before print seems to have been somewhat overlooked.

S.A. Srinivasan's discussion of contamination has some interesting  
remarks on the relationship between Devan?gar? and other scripts on  
pp.4--5 of his edition of the Tattvakaumud?.
(V?caspatimi?ras Tattvakaumud?. Ein Beitrag zur Textkritik bei  
kontaminierter ?berlieferung.
Srinavasa Ayya Srinivasan. Hamburg, 1967.)

Srinivasan is, as he explains, echoing Sukthankar's prolegomena to the  
?diparvan of the Mah?bh?rata, on p.LXII of which, for instance, we  
may read:

"The Devan?gar? script plays in the Mah?bh?rata textual tradition  
the important r?le of being the commonest medium of the contamination  
of different Mah?bh?rata versions.  A Devan?gar? manuscript of the  
Mah?bh?rata may, in fact, contain practically any version or  
combination of versions."

Geographical location no doubt goes a long way to explain the  
dominance of Devan?gar?.  Presumably centres such as Benares, a  
pilgrimage site and therefore a place at which many texts must have  
been copied by people from many regions, had a role to play.

And long before Devan?gar?, there is evidence of the use, in certain  
contexts, of a North-Indian standard (a proto-N?gar?) well beyond  
North Indian boundaries: digraphic inscriptions (using both a South  
Indian and a North Indian script type) are found on Pallava monuments  
of the early C8th, for instance, and somewhat later in Cambodia.

One wonders, by the way, what centres (and what other factors) created  
the South Indian and South East Asian script-standard of the 5th to  
8th centuries.

As for script-names, these are notoriously uncertain. Is it known when  
the Kashmirian script became known as ??rad? ?  And is there any old  
name at all known for the South Indian script-type so very widely used  
in the 5th to 8th centuries ?  South-East-Asianists today, of course,  
call it "Pallava Grantha"; but presumably this wasn't how it was known  
in C6th Karnataka or C6th Orissa or C6th Cambodia.

Dominic Goodall


Pondicherry Centre,
Ecole fran?aise d'Extr?me-Orient




From wc3 at SOAS.AC.UK  Tue Jan 12 12:26:35 2010
From: wc3 at SOAS.AC.UK (Whitney Cox)
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 10 12:26:35 +0000
Subject: scripts and Sanskrit
In-Reply-To: <958E903F-A901-489A-A26B-3985027EC145@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <161227088178.23782.7539389944101471549.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

At the risk of being self-aggrandizing, I have a forthcoming article
on the (epigraphic) use of N?gar? in the 11th and 12th century western
Deccan.  I would be happy to share off-prints with anyone interested
once it appears.  Please contact me off-list,

Whitney Cox

2010/1/12 Dominic Goodall <dominic.goodall at gmail.com>:
> In the discussion about scripts used for Sanskrit over the last few days,
> the widespread use of Devan?gar? (outside its "native" area) well before
> print seems to have been somewhat overlooked.
>
> S.A. Srinivasan's discussion of contamination has some interesting remarks
> on the relationship between Devan?gar? and other scripts on pp.4--5 of his
> edition of the Tattvakaumud?.
> (V?caspatimi?ras Tattvakaumud?. Ein Beitrag zur Textkritik bei
> kontaminierter ?berlieferung.
> Srinavasa Ayya Srinivasan. Hamburg, 1967.)
>
> Srinivasan is, as he explains, echoing Sukthankar's prolegomena to the
> ?diparvan of the Mah?bh?rata, on p.LXII of which, for instance, we may read:
>
> "The Devan?gar? script plays in the Mah?bh?rata textual tradition the
> important r?le of being the commonest medium of the contamination of
> different Mah?bh?rata versions. ?A Devan?gar? manuscript of the Mah?bh?rata
> may, in fact, contain practically any version or combination of versions."
>
> Geographical location no doubt goes a long way to explain the dominance of
> Devan?gar?. ?Presumably centres such as Benares, a pilgrimage site and
> therefore a place at which many texts must have been copied by people from
> many regions, had a role to play.
>
> And long before Devan?gar?, there is evidence of the use, in certain
> contexts, of a North-Indian standard (a proto-N?gar?) well beyond North
> Indian boundaries: digraphic inscriptions (using both a South Indian and a
> North Indian script type) are found on Pallava monuments of the early C8th,
> for instance, and somewhat later in Cambodia.
>
> One wonders, by the way, what centres (and what other factors) created the
> South Indian and South East Asian script-standard of the 5th to 8th
> centuries.
>
> As for script-names, these are notoriously uncertain. Is it known when the
> Kashmirian script became known as ??rad? ? ?And is there any old name at all
> known for the South Indian script-type so very widely used in the 5th to 8th
> centuries ? ?South-East-Asianists today, of course, call it "Pallava
> Grantha"; but presumably this wasn't how it was known in C6th Karnataka or
> C6th Orissa or C6th Cambodia.
>
> Dominic Goodall
>
>
> Pondicherry Centre,
> Ecole fran?aise d'Extr?me-Orient
>



-- 


Dr. Whitney Cox
Department of the Languages and Cultures of South Asia,
School of Oriental and African Studies
Thornhaugh Street, Russell Square
London WC1H 0XG




From ashok.aklujkar at UBC.CA  Tue Jan 12 22:52:34 2010
From: ashok.aklujkar at UBC.CA (Ashok Aklujkar)
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 10 14:52:34 -0800
Subject: Well, mzybe not so cool: Sanskrit script?
In-Reply-To: <19555_1263332334_1263332334_4B4CA58A0200003A00073795@ntgwgate.loc.gov>
Message-ID: <161227088200.23782.15780488733714849928.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Allen,

I meant the comparison to be taken only in the context of spread of Nagari.
But you raise a good question. I have not yet seen a Skt text written in
Mo.dii. The terminology 'secular : religious', however, may turn out to be
only aprroximately applicable. For example, there may be notebooks etc. in
which stotras in regular use are written in  Mo.dii.

Best wishes.

ashok


On 10-01-12 1:38 PM, "Allen W Thrasher" <athr at LOC.GOV> wrote:

> I was under the impression that traditionally in Maharashtra Modi was used for
> secular purposes (correspondence and legal and administrative documents) and
> Devanagari aka Balbodh for religious texts.  Is that incorrect?  Also, was
> Modi used for Sanskrit? 




From athr at LOC.GOV  Tue Jan 12 21:38:34 2010
From: athr at LOC.GOV (Allen W Thrasher)
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 10 16:38:34 -0500
Subject: Well, mzybe not so cool: Sanskrit script?
In-Reply-To: <C771446C.3572%ashok.aklujkar@ubc.ca>
Message-ID: <161227088192.23782.2424676093495730507.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Ashok,
 
I was under the impression that traditionally in Maharashtra Modi was used for secular purposes (correspondence and legal and administrative documents) and Devanagari aka Balbodh for religious texts.  Is that incorrect?  Also, was Modi used for Sanskrit?

Allen
 
" Some reflection of what the situation could have been like when
government policy began to promote Nagari can be seen in the current state
of Gujarati. Publications in Gujarati language, especially the ones
concerning Skt, Prakrit, Jainism etc., that is, concerning topics of
potentially pan-Indian interest, frequently use Nagari instead of or in
addition to the traditional Gujarati script. (Marathi has gone beyond this
stage. It has completely given up its Mo.dii script, a cousin of the
traditional Gujarati script.)"




From coseruc at COFC.EDU  Tue Jan 12 21:52:24 2010
From: coseruc at COFC.EDU (Christian Coseru)
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 10 16:52:24 -0500
Subject: Abhandlungen der K=?iso-8859-15?Q?=F6niglichen?= Akademie der              Wissensch aften zu Berlin
In-Reply-To: <4B4CE59A.8010502@univie.ac.at>
Message-ID: <161227088195.23782.16178020709627787640.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Birgit Kellner wrote:

> I gather on a recent Mac OS, there should already be tools available in the operating system for the job.
> 
> I trust the real geeks on the list can provide further advice :-)


Thankfully, the real geeks at Apple have made it easy for those of us using Macs.

It's pretty simple on the Mac (at least if your running a recent OS, 10.5x or 10.6). Download all the JPEG files with the wget command as Birgit suggested.   

In Finder navigate to the directory where the image files are stored, then simply do a Select All (? A) and Copy (? A). 

Now open your Preview application and go to File > New from Clipboard (? N) and voil?! All the image files have been added to an untitled document, which you now can save as a PDF file.

Best,
Christian


Christian Coseru, Ph.D.
Assistant Professor
Department of Philosophy
College of Charleston
66 George Street
Charleston, SC 29424

Office:
Phone: 843 953-1935
Facsimile: 843 953-6388
Email: coseruc at cofc.edu

On Jan 12, 2010, at 4:11 PM, Birgit Kellner wrote:

> Jonathan Silk wrote:
>> I have a feeling I may be an idiot (well, I'm sure in other respects, but in
>> this case...): I learn from Indologica that we can find online the
>> *Abhandlungen
>> der K?niglichen Akademie der Wissenschaften zu Berlin. *
>> 
>> When I go, however, for example to
>> http://bibliothek.bbaw.de/bibliothek-digital/digitalequellen/schriften/anzeige/index_html?band=07-abh/1844&seite:int=711,
>> I can only get one page at a time; is there not a way to download an entire
>> article?
>> 
>> Thanks for your advice!  Jonathan
>> 
>>  
> The interface unfortunately doesn't offer the possibility to download several pages at once (as a PDF, for instance), no.
> 
> There is a workaround, but it's a bit time-consuming:
> 
> 1.) Click on a page image with the desired size ("large", for instance). You see the JPG file and get a link like this in the browser's URL line:
> 
> http://bibliothek.bbaw.de/thumbnail?band=07-abh/1844&aufloesung:int=2&img=DAS_jpg/07-abh/1844/jpg-1000/00000002.jpg&seite:int=2
> 
> This means that the image file is stored in this directory:
> 
> http://bibliothek.bbaw.de/DAS_jpg/07-abh/1844/jpg-1000/
> 
> 2.) If you have the wonderful little tool wget installed, run
> 
> wget -r http://bibliothek.bbaw.de/DAS_jpg/07-abh/1844/jpg-1000/
> 
> from the command line.
> 
> This gets you all images for the volume in question to a local folder. You can then create a PDF file with these images (even run OCR on them before), with, for instance Adobe Acrobat Pro (on Windows); I gather on a recent Mac OS, there should already be tools available in the operating system for the job.
> 
> I trust the real geeks on the list can provide further advice :-)
> 
> Best,
> 
> b




From dbhattacharya2004 at YAHOO.CO.IN  Tue Jan 12 12:26:59 2010
From: dbhattacharya2004 at YAHOO.CO.IN (Dipak Bhattacharya)
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 10 17:56:59 +0530
Subject: Well, may be not so cool: Sanskrit script?
In-Reply-To: <79916B2C-00EF-4186-93D3-7F05B6BF66DC@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <161227088180.23782.8792099840086079118.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Dear Scholars,
As to the meaning of the term ??rad? the following excerpt from Roth?s Der Atharvaveda in Kaschmir (13-14) may be of interest 
?Herr T.H.thornton schreibt unter dem 23. Mai: ? 
?I have had an opportunity while at Srinagar of seeing a Ms. 
written in the Sharda character, which appears to me to so closely 
resemble the ordinary written Nagri that there would be no difficulty 
to a Sanskrit Scholar interpreting it. ? --I may mention that the Sharda 
character is the character in which the Kashmir Sanskrit Manuscripts 
are ordinarily written. The name is said to be derived from Sardah
a village in the vicinity of Chilas.?
Roth comments 
?Gegen diese kaschmirische Etymologie besten einige Bedenken. Das Wort ist
Wohl arabischen Ursprungs und bedeutet Urkundenschrift?? 
In his support Roth cites shur?ah, shur?? and shar? meaning ?writer?, ?notary? and ?contract?.
Best wishes
DB


--- On Tue, 12/1/10, Mrinal Kaul <mrinalkaul81 at GMAIL.COM> wrote:


From: Mrinal Kaul <mrinalkaul81 at GMAIL.COM>
Subject: Re: Well, mzybe not so cool: Sanskrit script?
To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk
Date: Tuesday, 12 January, 2010, 12:16 PM


Dear Indologists, 

I think scholars like Professor Walter Slaje and others have made almost all important points and that leaves nothing much for me to say. We know that ??rad? has been in use in Kashmir since 9th CE. The Brahm? script used in the North-western part of Ancient India underwent a change circa 9th CE and the proto-??rad? script was created. In the regions like Himachal Pradesh and Jammu the common script used was ??kar?. But this script remained popular only from 9th to 14th cen. CE. Today, even the local people of Jammu or Himachal do not know that the script of their language was ??kar?. They commonly use the Devanagari script now.

We do not have any strong evidence to show why the script in Kashmir is called ??rad? (apart from the reasons cited by Prof Slaje). We usually allude to the local heresy. As for the Kashmiri language, I do not think that there is much literature available that is written in ??rad? script. The oldest being the B???sukath?, the Sukhadukhacarita, and the Mah?nayaprak??a. Later we do find the V?ks of Lal Ded (14th CE) and R?pa Bhavan? (17th CE) also written in ??rad?. Of course with the advent Islamic rule the use of Persio-Arbic script was also introduced that continues till date. The peculiar phenomenon with Kashmir was that one could find pandits well versed both in Sanskrit and Persian languages. A well know example of this was Pandit Ishvar Kaul (1833-1893 CE) besides many others. This feature made many pandits use Nastalique for writing Sanskrit. I knew some people who could only read Sanskrit in Nastalique. There is still a good
 collection of Sanskrit Mss preserved in the Oriental Research Library and the Sri Pratap Museum Library in Srinagar those are written in the Nastalique script. In fact when I used to share this with my other non-Kashmiri Sanskritists, they were always astonished. 

Grierson has tried to use both the Devanagari and the Nastalique in his Kashmiri manual, dictionary etc. Some earlier pandits like Srinath Tickoo and others have tried to employ a peculiar quality of ??rad? script to produce the typical sounds of Kashmiri language, but, in my opinion, they have failed. The same scheme is also employed by Mukundram Shastri in the Kashmiri story that he writes in the second part of the eighth volume of the "Linguistic Survey of India". Today the majority of pandits use Devanagari for writing Kashmiri. They also justify that the Devanagari is the one and only script in which Kashmiri can be best expressed. On the other hand the Nastalique is the script recognized by the Indian constitution and all the books published in Kashmiri language by the Sahitya Academy or the Jammu and Kashmir Academy of Art, Culture and Languages are printed in the Nastalique script. I guess Nastalique is also very popular among the Kashmiri
 Musalmans and Devanagari amongst the Kashmiri pandits. The use of Nastalique for writing Kashmiri language is also based only on the usage of 'zer', 'zabar' and 'pesh', those, I am told, do not convey the best sounds of Kashmiri language. The ??rad? was mostly used for writing Sanskrit alone. The ??rad? script never had a printing press. This also played a major role in the extinction of the script in the valley besides many others. The first book to be printed in the ??rad? script was a Kashmiri translation of the Bible (I do not have the reference with me right now). All I can recall is that it was printed outside of Kashmir valley using big full page blocks engraved on metallic surfaces. 

The Jammu and Kashmir Research and Publication Department that was launched by Maharaja Pratap Singh in 1900 CE used to loan ??rad? Mss from the local pandits and transcribed them into the Devanagari script to make a press copy of the text. These press copies were sent either to Bombay, Pune or Allahabad for printing. I guess there was no Devanagari printing press in Kashmir that point of time. I can also recall that Pandit Keshav Bhatta Jyotshi who was a famous priest and a religious activist in Kashmir had got many of the Karma-k??da books printed from Mumbai on his own expenses. I think, later he also owned a press in Srinagar. I think the Devanagari was revived in Kashmir by Keshava Bhatta even though the use of Persio-Arabic script is still continued by the local priests. Some priests, as I have witnessed, are more comfortable with the Persio-Arabic script than the Devanagari. They can read Sanskrit faster in Nastalique than Devanagari. Most
 of the Karma-k??da books are published in both the scripts for the convenience of the readers. The Kashmiri almanac is also published in both the script every year till date that contains all sort of Sanskrit prayers in both the scripts besides the yearly calendar. 

Maharaja Ranbir Singh (1830-1885 CE) was a great patron of Sanskrit and Persian. He established a big translation department in Jammu where he employed pandits from Kashmir to transcribe the ??rad? Mss into the Devanagari. Eventually all these Mss today form a part of the Ranbir Sanskrit Research Library (formerly Raghunath Temple Library). The Devanagari written by these Pandits came to be known as Kashmirian Devanagari. I also hear that Pandits were some times demanded by the Kings of Varanasi and there was a small translation department there. I think there was more of transcribing going on in this translation department.

As far as I recall having heard from the Sanskrit pandits of Kashmir, they said that their forefathers used to sit back home in winters and copy the Bhagavad Gita, the Puranas, the Mahabharata etc. and then go to the plains of Indian subcontinent to sell their Mss. I presume these Mss should have been in Devanagari because not many people outside of Kashmir would know ??rad?. This suggests a probability that pandits were not completely alien to Devanagari. Of course crossing the huge mountain ranges to visit the plains of Indian subcontinent and then coming back would have been a strong challenge in those days.

Best.

Yours sincerely,

Mrinal Kaul


************************
Mrinal Kaul 
(Doctoral Fellow)
Concordia University
Department of Religion, FA-101
1455 de Maisonneuve Blvd West
Montreal, Quebec
CANADA H3G 1M8
*************************
Cell: +1-514-8028228
e-mail: mrinal.kaul at stx.oxon.org 
www.mrinalkaul.art.officelive.com



      The INTERNET now has a personality. YOURS! See your Yahoo! Homepage. http://in.yahoo.com/




From kauzeya at GMAIL.COM  Tue Jan 12 18:37:54 2010
From: kauzeya at GMAIL.COM (Jonathan Silk)
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 10 19:37:54 +0100
Subject: Abhandlungen der K=?UTF-8?Q?=C3=B6niglichen?= Akademie der              Wissensch aften zu Berlin
Message-ID: <161227088184.23782.5043197399062410585.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

I have a feeling I may be an idiot (well, I'm sure in other respects, but in
this case...): I learn from Indologica that we can find online the
*Abhandlungen
der K?niglichen Akademie der Wissenschaften zu Berlin. *

When I go, however, for example to
http://bibliothek.bbaw.de/bibliothek-digital/digitalequellen/schriften/anzeige/index_html?band=07-abh/1844&seite:int=711,
I can only get one page at a time; is there not a way to download an entire
article?

Thanks for your advice!  Jonathan

-- 
J. Silk
Instituut Kern / Universiteit Leiden
Postbus 9515
2300 RA Leiden
Netherlands




From birgit.kellner at UNIVIE.AC.AT  Tue Jan 12 21:11:54 2010
From: birgit.kellner at UNIVIE.AC.AT (Birgit Kellner)
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 10 22:11:54 +0100
Subject: Abhandlungen der K=?UTF-8?Q?=C3=B6niglichen?= Akademie der              Wissensch aften zu Berlin
In-Reply-To: <c4c5a5431001121037yeb803eh5cdda69c598481dd@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <161227088189.23782.13101082635815275136.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Jonathan Silk wrote:
> I have a feeling I may be an idiot (well, I'm sure in other respects, but in
> this case...): I learn from Indologica that we can find online the
> *Abhandlungen
> der K?niglichen Akademie der Wissenschaften zu Berlin. *
>
> When I go, however, for example to
> http://bibliothek.bbaw.de/bibliothek-digital/digitalequellen/schriften/anzeige/index_html?band=07-abh/1844&seite:int=711,
> I can only get one page at a time; is there not a way to download an entire
> article?
>
> Thanks for your advice!  Jonathan
>
>   
The interface unfortunately doesn't offer the possibility to download 
several pages at once (as a PDF, for instance), no.

There is a workaround, but it's a bit time-consuming:

1.) Click on a page image with the desired size ("large", for instance). 
You see the JPG file and get a link like this in the browser's URL line:

http://bibliothek.bbaw.de/thumbnail?band=07-abh/1844&aufloesung:int=2&img=DAS_jpg/07-abh/1844/jpg-1000/00000002.jpg&seite:int=2

This means that the image file is stored in this directory:

http://bibliothek.bbaw.de/DAS_jpg/07-abh/1844/jpg-1000/

2.) If you have the wonderful little tool wget installed, run

wget -r http://bibliothek.bbaw.de/DAS_jpg/07-abh/1844/jpg-1000/

from the command line.

This gets you all images for the volume in question to a local folder. 
You can then create a PDF file with these images (even run OCR on them 
before), with, for instance Adobe Acrobat Pro (on Windows); I gather on 
a recent Mac OS, there should already be tools available in the 
operating system for the job.

I trust the real geeks on the list can provide further advice :-)

Best,

b




From ph2046 at COLUMBIA.EDU  Tue Jan 12 23:04:26 2010
From: ph2046 at COLUMBIA.EDU (Paul G. Hackett)
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 10 23:04:26 +0000
Subject: Abhandlungen der K=?Windows-1252?Q?=F6niglichen?= Akademie              der Wisse nsch aften zu Berlin
In-Reply-To: <c4c5a5431001121417l53563495g301572f1445c8191@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <161227088203.23782.263832997434026856.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Jonathan,

  Try Bulkloader. Available from

http://www.thhdesign.com

It works for files with sequentially numbered filenames, and runs as fast as your connection will allow without the overhead of a full web browser.

Best,

Paul Hackett
Columbia University

Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

-----Original Message-----
From: Jonathan Silk <kauzeya at gmail.com>
Date:         Tue, 12 Jan 2010 23:17:36 
To: <INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: Abhandlungen der K?niglichen Akademie der Wisse nsch aften zu Berlin

Thanks to all; I already (on an earlier Mac OS) have long used a delightful
little piece of software called Combine PDFs, which for instance allows you
to remove and reorder and reorient pages in a multi-page document. The
problem is not putting things together but the necessity to download a long
article page by page... quicker to go to library and xerox the original, and
run that through a scanner (for a long paper, if you have access to a good
library, yes, I know).

thanks!  Jonathan

2010/1/12 Christian Coseru <coseruc at cofc.edu>

> Birgit Kellner wrote:
>
> > I gather on a recent Mac OS, there should already be tools available in
> the operating system for the job.
> >
> > I trust the real geeks on the list can provide further advice :-)
>
>
> Thankfully, the real geeks at Apple have made it easy for those of us using
> Macs.
>
> It's pretty simple on the Mac (at least if your running a recent OS, 10.5x
> or 10.6). Download all the JPEG files with the wget command as Birgit
> suggested.
>
> In Finder navigate to the directory where the image files are stored, then
> simply do a Select All (? A) and Copy (? A).
>
> Now open your Preview application and go to File > New from Clipboard (? N)
> and voil?! All the image files have been added to an untitled document,
> which you now can save as a PDF file.
>
> Best,
> Christian
>
>
> Christian Coseru, Ph.D.
> Assistant Professor
> Department of Philosophy
> College of Charleston
> 66 George Street
> Charleston, SC 29424
>
> Office:
> Phone: 843 953-1935
> Facsimile: 843 953-6388
> Email: coseruc at cofc.edu
>
> On Jan 12, 2010, at 4:11 PM, Birgit Kellner wrote:
>
> > Jonathan Silk wrote:
> >> I have a feeling I may be an idiot (well, I'm sure in other respects,
> but in
> >> this case...): I learn from Indologica that we can find online the
> >> *Abhandlungen
> >> der K?niglichen Akademie der Wissenschaften zu Berlin. *
> >>
> >> When I go, however, for example to
> >>
> http://bibliothek.bbaw.de/bibliothek-digital/digitalequellen/schriften/anzeige/index_html?band=07-abh/1844&seite:int=711
> ,
> >> I can only get one page at a time; is there not a way to download an
> entire
> >> article?
> >>
> >> Thanks for your advice!  Jonathan
> >>
> >>
> > The interface unfortunately doesn't offer the possibility to download
> several pages at once (as a PDF, for instance), no.
> >
> > There is a workaround, but it's a bit time-consuming:
> >
> > 1.) Click on a page image with the desired size ("large", for instance).
> You see the JPG file and get a link like this in the browser's URL line:
> >
> >
> http://bibliothek.bbaw.de/thumbnail?band=07-abh/1844&aufloesung:int=2&img=DAS_jpg/07-abh/1844/jpg-1000/00000002.jpg&seite:int=2
> >
> > This means that the image file is stored in this directory:
> >
> > http://bibliothek.bbaw.de/DAS_jpg/07-abh/1844/jpg-1000/
> >
> > 2.) If you have the wonderful little tool wget installed, run
> >
> > wget -r http://bibliothek.bbaw.de/DAS_jpg/07-abh/1844/jpg-1000/
> >
> > from the command line.
> >
> > This gets you all images for the volume in question to a local folder.
> You can then create a PDF file with these images (even run OCR on them
> before), with, for instance Adobe Acrobat Pro (on Windows); I gather on a
> recent Mac OS, there should already be tools available in the operating
> system for the job.
> >
> > I trust the real geeks on the list can provide further advice :-)
> >
> > Best,
> >
> > b
>



-- 
J. Silk
Instituut Kern / Universiteit Leiden
Postbus 9515
2300 RA Leiden
Netherlands





From kauzeya at GMAIL.COM  Tue Jan 12 22:17:36 2010
From: kauzeya at GMAIL.COM (Jonathan Silk)
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 10 23:17:36 +0100
Subject: Abhandlungen der K=?UTF-8?Q?=C3=B6niglichen?= Akademie der              Wisse nsch aften zu Berlin
In-Reply-To: <22713509-8F76-4656-B904-1B6E27431D83@cofc.edu>
Message-ID: <161227088198.23782.13230587747490358026.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Thanks to all; I already (on an earlier Mac OS) have long used a delightful
little piece of software called Combine PDFs, which for instance allows you
to remove and reorder and reorient pages in a multi-page document. The
problem is not putting things together but the necessity to download a long
article page by page... quicker to go to library and xerox the original, and
run that through a scanner (for a long paper, if you have access to a good
library, yes, I know).

thanks!  Jonathan

2010/1/12 Christian Coseru <coseruc at cofc.edu>

> Birgit Kellner wrote:
>
> > I gather on a recent Mac OS, there should already be tools available in
> the operating system for the job.
> >
> > I trust the real geeks on the list can provide further advice :-)
>
>
> Thankfully, the real geeks at Apple have made it easy for those of us using
> Macs.
>
> It's pretty simple on the Mac (at least if your running a recent OS, 10.5x
> or 10.6). Download all the JPEG files with the wget command as Birgit
> suggested.
>
> In Finder navigate to the directory where the image files are stored, then
> simply do a Select All (? A) and Copy (? A).
>
> Now open your Preview application and go to File > New from Clipboard (? N)
> and voil?! All the image files have been added to an untitled document,
> which you now can save as a PDF file.
>
> Best,
> Christian
>
>
> Christian Coseru, Ph.D.
> Assistant Professor
> Department of Philosophy
> College of Charleston
> 66 George Street
> Charleston, SC 29424
>
> Office:
> Phone: 843 953-1935
> Facsimile: 843 953-6388
> Email: coseruc at cofc.edu
>
> On Jan 12, 2010, at 4:11 PM, Birgit Kellner wrote:
>
> > Jonathan Silk wrote:
> >> I have a feeling I may be an idiot (well, I'm sure in other respects,
> but in
> >> this case...): I learn from Indologica that we can find online the
> >> *Abhandlungen
> >> der K?niglichen Akademie der Wissenschaften zu Berlin. *
> >>
> >> When I go, however, for example to
> >>
> http://bibliothek.bbaw.de/bibliothek-digital/digitalequellen/schriften/anzeige/index_html?band=07-abh/1844&seite:int=711
> ,
> >> I can only get one page at a time; is there not a way to download an
> entire
> >> article?
> >>
> >> Thanks for your advice!  Jonathan
> >>
> >>
> > The interface unfortunately doesn't offer the possibility to download
> several pages at once (as a PDF, for instance), no.
> >
> > There is a workaround, but it's a bit time-consuming:
> >
> > 1.) Click on a page image with the desired size ("large", for instance).
> You see the JPG file and get a link like this in the browser's URL line:
> >
> >
> http://bibliothek.bbaw.de/thumbnail?band=07-abh/1844&aufloesung:int=2&img=DAS_jpg/07-abh/1844/jpg-1000/00000002.jpg&seite:int=2
> >
> > This means that the image file is stored in this directory:
> >
> > http://bibliothek.bbaw.de/DAS_jpg/07-abh/1844/jpg-1000/
> >
> > 2.) If you have the wonderful little tool wget installed, run
> >
> > wget -r http://bibliothek.bbaw.de/DAS_jpg/07-abh/1844/jpg-1000/
> >
> > from the command line.
> >
> > This gets you all images for the volume in question to a local folder.
> You can then create a PDF file with these images (even run OCR on them
> before), with, for instance Adobe Acrobat Pro (on Windows); I gather on a
> recent Mac OS, there should already be tools available in the operating
> system for the job.
> >
> > I trust the real geeks on the list can provide further advice :-)
> >
> > Best,
> >
> > b
>



-- 
J. Silk
Instituut Kern / Universiteit Leiden
Postbus 9515
2300 RA Leiden
Netherlands




From july2307 at YANDEX.RU  Tue Jan 12 20:44:52 2010
From: july2307 at YANDEX.RU (=?utf-8?B?0JTQvNC40YLRgNC40Lk=?=)
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 10 23:44:52 +0300
Subject: Abhandlungen der K=?utf-8?Q?=C3=B6niglichen?= Akademie der              Wissensch aft en zu Berlin
In-Reply-To: <c4c5a5431001121037yeb803eh5cdda69c598481dd@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <161227088187.23782.11438470051835935515.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Jonathan, use keys above the image of page: + 1 - the following page, + 5 - the fifth page after chosen, etc. As it is a pictures (jpg format) can be looked and copied only one by one.
 
Greetings from Moscow
Dmitry N.Lelioukhine
Oriental Institute

12.01.10, 19:37, "Jonathan Silk" <kauzeya at GMAIL.COM>:

> I have a feeling I may be an idiot (well, I'm sure in other respects, but in
>  this case...): I learn from Indologica that we can find online the
>  *Abhandlungen
>  der K?niglichen Akademie der Wissenschaften zu Berlin. *
>  
>  When I go, however, for example to
>  http://bibliothek.bbaw.de/bibliothek-digital/digitalequellen/schriften/anzeige/index_html?band=07-abh/1844&seite:int=711,
>  I can only get one page at a time; is there not a way to download an entire
>  article?
>  
>  Thanks for your advice!  Jonathan
>  
>  




From juergen.neuss at FU-BERLIN.DE  Wed Jan 13 08:07:40 2010
From: juergen.neuss at FU-BERLIN.DE (=?utf-8?Q?J=C3=BCrgen_Neuss?=)
Date: Wed, 13 Jan 10 09:07:40 +0100
Subject: Abhandlungen der K=?utf-8?Q?=C3=B6niglichen?=  Akademie der              Wissenschaften zu B erlin
In-Reply-To: <92710738-1263337419-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1029203529-@bda840.bisx.prod.on.blackberry>
Message-ID: <161227088205.23782.278812934656624651.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

dear colleagues,

for those, who use firefox as a webbrowser, the add-on DownThemAll  
(https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/201)
maybe of use in this and similar cases. this is platform independent i  
think.
as in the present case, you may have to switch to the rootfolder,
(here: http://bibliothek.bbaw.de/DAS_jpg/07-abh/1844/jpg-1000/)
where you then can download the whole volume in one go.

greetings

jn

-- 
????????????????????????????????????????????????
Dr. J?rgen Neu?
Freie Universit?t Berlin
Institut f?r die Sprachen und Kulturen S?dasiens
K?nigin-Luise-Str. 34 a
D-14195 Berlin
??????????????????????????
juergen.neuss at fu-berlin.de




From axel.michaels at YAHOO.DE  Wed Jan 13 09:35:27 2010
From: axel.michaels at YAHOO.DE (Axel Michaels)
Date: Wed, 13 Jan 10 09:35:27 +0000
Subject: New publication
Message-ID: <161227088207.23782.13045471110329879428.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

fyi:
Bhima Bhoi: Verses from the Void Mystic Poetry of an Oriya Saint (With CD), Ed. by Bettina Baumer and Johannes Beltz
New Delhi: Manohar, 2010 (1st edition)
ISBN 9788173048135
Rs  995.00 (Hardbound), 407 p.     
Best greetings
Axel Michaels




From nlpdept at YAHOO.CO.IN  Wed Jan 13 13:49:02 2010
From: nlpdept at YAHOO.CO.IN (Srinivasa Varakhedi)
Date: Wed, 13 Jan 10 19:19:02 +0530
Subject: Contact of Prof. Deepak Sharma, USA (Madhva Vedanta)
In-Reply-To: <d1c0c7391001070732l5c5cda50kfad10a0bef3ea106@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <161227088209.23782.285546874395247253.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Dear Members,

Please write to me if anybody of you have contact of Dr.Deepak Sharma USA who worked on Madhva Vedanta.

regards,
shrivara



      The INTERNET now has a personality. YOURS! See your Yahoo! Homepage. http://in.yahoo.com/




From jemhouben at GMAIL.COM  Thu Jan 14 01:32:50 2010
From: jemhouben at GMAIL.COM (Jan E.M. Houben)
Date: Thu, 14 Jan 10 02:32:50 +0100
Subject: all (almost) you ever wanted to know about indian alchemy
Message-ID: <161227088212.23782.13928690989700373029.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

As Louis Renou and Jean Filliozat clearly understood long ago in 1953,
indian studies and indology is much in need of  "r?pertoires d?crivant le
vocabulaire propre ? telle ou telle des grandes disciplines qui composent
l'indianisme classique" (avant-propos to Collection de vocabulaires
techniques du sanskrit in vol. 1: Vocabulaire du rituel v?dique). One of
these grand disciplines is indian alchemy for which now, finally, a
woerterbuch of technical terms is available.

Author: Oliver Hellwig.
Title: Woerterbuch der mittelalterlichen indischen Alchemie.
(eJIM supplements 2)
Eelde: Barkhuis, 2009.

Between 900 and 1500 C.E., the knowledge of Indian alchemy
was codified in a group of Sanskrit texts that deal with the
ideas and the methods of this scientific tradition. The dict-
ionary explains about 400 technical terms and names of sub-
stances that are mentioned in these texts. Apart from trans-
lations of central passages of the alchemical treatises the
dictionary offers an extensive collection of texts references,
which makes it posible to examine the intellec3tual cross-
links in the alchemical tradition in detail. The dictionary
is supplemented by indices of Sanskrit terms as well as of
text references and topics.

***

eJIM - the eJournal of Indian Medicine - has just published eJIM Supplement
2:



Oliver Hellwig

W?rterbuch der mittelalterlichen indischen Alchemie



Please visit our website at www.indianmedicine.nl.



eJIM is an Open Access publication and makes no charge either to authors or
to readers. Users have to register if they want to read the full articles.
Registration is free and carries no obligations. Registered users will be
notified by email on publication of an issue of the journal.



eJIM currently has around 370 registered readers.

***

(apologies for cross-posting)




From heike.moser at UNI-TUEBINGEN.DE  Thu Jan 14 09:22:37 2010
From: heike.moser at UNI-TUEBINGEN.DE (Heike Moser)
Date: Thu, 14 Jan 10 10:22:37 +0100
Subject: Wayne Howard
Message-ID: <161227088214.23782.7644482870913610366.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Dear listmembers,

I am searching for the email-address, postal address and / or phone-number
of WAYNE HOWARD. He has published books and articles about Samavedic Chant
(1977), Vedic Recitation in Varanasi and The Development of the Samavedic
Notatian of the Jaiminiyas.

Thanks and best regards,
Heike Moser


***************
Dr. Heike Moser
***************
Eberhard-Karls-Universitaet Tuebingen
Asien-Orient-Institut (AOI)
Abteilung fuer Indologie und Vergleichende Religionswissenschaft
Gartenstr. 19
72074 Tuebingen / Germany
Tel: ++49-(0)7071-2974005    Fax: ++49-(0)7071-292675
*****
Marktgasse 2
72070 Tuebingen / Germany
Tel: ++49-(0)7071-147993    Mobile: ++49-(0)176-20030066
Fax: ++49-(0)3212-1084518
***************
http://homepages.uni-tuebingen.de/heike.moser/
***************




From ucgadkw at UCL.AC.UK  Thu Jan 14 11:29:45 2010
From: ucgadkw at UCL.AC.UK (Dominik Wujastyk)
Date: Thu, 14 Jan 10 11:29:45 +0000
Subject: wget (was: Re: Abhandlungen der K=?utf-8?Q?=C3=B6nigliche?= n              Akademie der  Wissensch aften zu Berli)
In-Reply-To: <4B4CE59A.8010502@univie.ac.at>
Message-ID: <161227088218.23782.15369206476199352646.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Birgit is quite right about the value of wget.  It's an amazing little
tool.  I use it routinely to get books from the Digital Library of India,
where texts are presented only as individual pages.

Until about a year ago, one could use the "-r" recursion setting of wget
to fetch a whole directory-full of files in one go.  Then the DLI disabled
that feature.  So now one has to issue a wget command for each page.
But it's easy to do with a small bash script like this:

---------- cut here -----------
#!/bin/sh

# fetch Kapadia_Desc.Cat.Govt.Colls.MSS.BORI-Jaina
# Literature and Philosophy XIX.1 Svetambara Works_1957

for i in {00000001..397..1}
	do
		wget http://www.new.dli.ernet.in/data/upload/0048/903/PTIFF/$i.tif
	done
---------- cut here -----------

The magic number "371" is the number of pages in the book, which DLI tells
you.  In Firefox, you can find out the directory in which a book's TIFF
files live by loading a page of the book and then hitting Tools/Page Info
and selecting "media".

Bash is the default shell in Linux; it's also available to Windows users
by installing the excellent Cygwin.

Best,
Dominik



On Tue, 12 Jan 2010, Birgit Kellner wrote:

> Jonathan Silk wrote:
> > I have a feeling I may be an idiot (well, I'm sure in other respects, but in
> > this case...): I learn from Indologica that we can find online the
> > *Abhandlungen
> > der K?niglichen Akademie der Wissenschaften zu Berlin. *
> >
> > When I go, however, for example to
> > http://bibliothek.bbaw.de/bibliothek-digital/digitalequellen/schriften/anzeige/index_html?band=07-abh/1844&seite:int=711,
> > I can only get one page at a time; is there not a way to download an entire
> > article?
> >
> > Thanks for your advice!  Jonathan
> >
> >
> The interface unfortunately doesn't offer the possibility to download
> several pages at once (as a PDF, for instance), no.
>
> There is a workaround, but it's a bit time-consuming:
>
> 1.) Click on a page image with the desired size ("large", for instance).
> You see the JPG file and get a link like this in the browser's URL line:
>
> http://bibliothek.bbaw.de/thumbnail?band=07-abh/1844&aufloesung:int=2&img=DAS_jpg/07-abh/1844/jpg-1000/00000002.jpg&seite:int=2
>
> This means that the image file is stored in this directory:
>
> http://bibliothek.bbaw.de/DAS_jpg/07-abh/1844/jpg-1000/
>
> 2.) If you have the wonderful little tool wget installed, run
>
> wget -r http://bibliothek.bbaw.de/DAS_jpg/07-abh/1844/jpg-1000/
>
> from the command line.
>
> This gets you all images for the volume in question to a local folder.
> You can then create a PDF file with these images (even run OCR on them
> before), with, for instance Adobe Acrobat Pro (on Windows); I gather on
> a recent Mac OS, there should already be tools available in the
> operating system for the job.
>
> I trust the real geeks on the list can provide further advice :-)
>
> Best,
>
> b
>

-- 
--
After nearly 25 years, I'm phasing out this UCL email account.
Please switch over to using the email address wujastyk at gmail.com




From asko.parpola at HELSINKI.FI  Thu Jan 14 11:08:45 2010
From: asko.parpola at HELSINKI.FI (Asko Parpola)
Date: Thu, 14 Jan 10 13:08:45 +0200
Subject: Wayne Howard
In-Reply-To: <C774A0ED.EF57%heike.moser@uni-tuebingen.de>
Message-ID: <161227088216.23782.18192890702765534986.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Dear Heike,

Wayne's coordinates are as follows:

309 Shirley Avenue, Winona, Mississippi 38967-2011 USA.
Telephone: +1-662-283-2110
e-mail: dwhoward at cableone.net

With best regards, Asko Parpola


Quoting "Heike Moser" <heike.moser at UNI-TUEBINGEN.DE>:

> Dear listmembers,
>
> I am searching for the email-address, postal address and / or phone-number
> of WAYNE HOWARD. He has published books and articles about Samavedic Chant
> (1977), Vedic Recitation in Varanasi and The Development of the Samavedic
> Notatian of the Jaiminiyas.
>
> Thanks and best regards,
> Heike Moser
>
>
> ***************
> Dr. Heike Moser
> ***************
> Eberhard-Karls-Universitaet Tuebingen
> Asien-Orient-Institut (AOI)
> Abteilung fuer Indologie und Vergleichende Religionswissenschaft
> Gartenstr. 19
> 72074 Tuebingen / Germany
> Tel: ++49-(0)7071-2974005    Fax: ++49-(0)7071-292675
> *****
> Marktgasse 2
> 72070 Tuebingen / Germany
> Tel: ++49-(0)7071-147993    Mobile: ++49-(0)176-20030066
> Fax: ++49-(0)3212-1084518
> ***************
> http://homepages.uni-tuebingen.de/heike.moser/
> ***************
>
>




From gruenen at SUB.UNI-GOETTINGEN.DE  Thu Jan 14 15:05:06 2010
From: gruenen at SUB.UNI-GOETTINGEN.DE (Gruenendahl, Reinhold)
Date: Thu, 14 Jan 10 16:05:06 +0100
Subject: GRETIL update #363
Message-ID: <161227088220.23782.10846614564799257836.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

GRETIL is pleased to be able to report the following addition(s) to its
collection:

Jayatirtha: Nyayasudha, Adhyaya 1
<http://www.sub.uni-goettingen.de/ebene_1/fiindolo/gretil.htm#JayNysu>
(revised)


Jayatirtha: Nyayasudha, Adhyaya 2, Pada 1
<http://www.sub.uni-goettingen.de/ebene_1/fiindolo/gretil.htm#JayNysu>
(revised)


Jayatirtha: Nyayasudha, Adhyaya 2, Pada 2
<http://www.sub.uni-goettingen.de/ebene_1/fiindolo/gretil.htm#JayNysu> 

 

__________________________________________________________________________ 

"GRETIL is intended as a cumulative register of the numerous download sites
for electronic texts in Indian languages." (from the 2001 "mission
statement") 

GRETIL - Goettingen Register of Electronic Texts in Indian Languages: 

http://www.sub.uni-goettingen.de/ebene_1/fiindolo/gretil.htm




From ucgadkw at UCL.AC.UK  Fri Jan 15 15:50:16 2010
From: ucgadkw at UCL.AC.UK (Dominik Wujastyk)
Date: Fri, 15 Jan 10 15:50:16 +0000
Subject: Fwd: Query on Gandhi (fwd)
Message-ID: <161227088222.23782.16414447017488020613.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

>?From Enrica Garzilli <garzilli at asiatica.org>:

************************************************************************

Sorry for cross posting.

Dear All,

As far as I know Mahadav Desai, Gandhi's secretary, translated the
autobiography of Mahatma from gujarati.

Anyway, in some Italian book I read that the English translation was made by
Pyarelal Nayyar (Gandhi's doctor), Mirabehn, Srinivasa Sastri & the Italian
Consul Gino Scarpa.

Is that true? I mean, what is true? Do they refer to the longer and shorter
version of the autobiography?

Thank you for your answer.

Happy New Year,



Dr. Enrica Garzilli
Asiatica Association http://asiatica.org




From avandergeer at PLANET.NL  Mon Jan 18 15:22:58 2010
From: avandergeer at PLANET.NL (Alexandra Vandergeer)
Date: Mon, 18 Jan 10 16:22:58 +0100
Subject: Ramayana causeway
Message-ID: <161227088227.23782.12331886599702912147.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Does anybody know of a relief or other work of art depicting the moment of the Ramayana causeway episode where the Fish Princess Pravarasena emerges or stands ashore? This particular moment seems to have been captured in Southeast Asia, but what about South Asia? Till now, I found only a Hoysala relief with Rama aiming his arrow at a fish 'above' (=in the distant) him, but whether this is the princess or stands for the fish as her people is unclear. A female figure stands to the right of Rama, maybe she is the princess, maybe not.
 
Alexandra van der Geer
University of Athens
Greece




From wujastyk at GMAIL.COM  Mon Jan 18 15:51:03 2010
From: wujastyk at GMAIL.COM (Dominik Wujastyk)
Date: Mon, 18 Jan 10 16:51:03 +0100
Subject: Report on the accident of Munishri Jambuvijayji and colleagues
Message-ID: <161227088229.23782.13997710969637971854.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Dear colleagues,

A "Report on the accident of Param Pujya Munishri Jambuvijayji Maharaj
Saheb" by Hiroko Matsuoka has been posted to
the "Members' queries and information" section of the INDOLOGY
website, http://indology.info
See:

     http://indology.info/email/email-members.shtml

It is a PDF file (600kb).

Ms Matsuoka was in the harrowing situation of being one of the party
travelling with Jambuvijayaji and his colleagues at the time of the
accident, and she arrived on the scene less than an hour after the
event, and before the arrival of the police.  Ms Matsuoka has granted
permission for her account to be shared on the internet with members
of the INDOLOGY list.

Dominik Wujastyk
INDOLOGY website




From mkmfolk at GMAIL.COM  Mon Jan 18 14:57:24 2010
From: mkmfolk at GMAIL.COM (Mahendra Kumar Mishra)
Date: Mon, 18 Jan 10 20:27:24 +0530
Subject: Lokaratna Vol - II 2009
Message-ID: <161227088224.23782.5997754460467244781.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

 Dear All,
  Kindly  find  here  with  a e journal on folklore ( Lokaratna )  from
Folklreo Foundation, Orissa.

The latest issue of Lokaratna  for  2009  is available in our journal
portal. The complete journal can viewed by using the following link:
http://www.indianfolklore.org/journals/index.php/Lok/index
 Hope you will   enjoy it .
  with  best regards, Mahendra  Mishra

-- 
Dr Mahendra Kumar Mishra
State   SC/ST  and Minority  Education Coordinator,
Unit-V OPEPA

Residential Address:
D-9 Flat  Kalpana Area  Bhubaneswar  751014,India
phone 91+674-2310167(r)
094376-36436(m)




From mkmfolk at GMAIL.COM  Wed Jan 20 02:33:50 2010
From: mkmfolk at GMAIL.COM (Mahendra Kumar Mishra)
Date: Wed, 20 Jan 10 08:03:50 +0530
Subject: E journal on India folklore
Message-ID: <161227088232.23782.14244691926974795705.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

  Following is the   link to  a  folklore e journal that  is coming out from
Orissa  by  Folklore Foundation. It is a  new effort.I  hope that you will
kindly  appreciate  the  work.   Waiting to your  kind sugestion  and
good  will
  with  bestregards,  mahendra

 http://www.indianfolklore.org/journals/index.php/Lok/index

-- 
Dr Mahendra Kumar Mishra
State   SC/ST  and Minority  Education Coordinator,
Unit-V OPEPA

Residential Address:
D-9 Flat  Kalpana Area  Bhubaneswar  751014,India
phone 91+674-2310167(r)
094376-36436(m)




From pf8 at SOAS.AC.UK  Wed Jan 20 20:37:32 2010
From: pf8 at SOAS.AC.UK (Peter Flugel)
Date: Wed, 20 Jan 10 20:37:32 +0000
Subject: JAINA YOGA, SOAS 18-19 MARCH 2010
Message-ID: <161227088234.23782.5114898724392314694.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

*JAINA YOGA*

*12th Jaina Studies Workshop at SOAS*

* *

*The 10th Annual Jain Lecture*



Thursday, 18th March 2010

18.00-19.30 Brunei Gallery Lecture Theatre

19.30 Reception Brunei Gallery Suite



Sagarmal Jain (P?r?van?th Vidy?p??h, V?r??as?)

*The Historical Development of the Jaina-Yoga System and the Impact of other
Indian Yoga Systems on it: A Comparative and Critical Study*





*Workshop*

* *

Friday, 19th March 2009

9.00, Brunei Gallery Lecture Theatre



9.00     Tea and Coffee



9.15     Welcome



9.30     Olle Qvarnstr?m (Lund University)

*The Concept of Yoga in Jainism*



10.00   Bansidhar Bhatt (University of M?nster)

*Study in Meditational Techniques in Early Jainism*

10.30            Samani Chaitypragya & Samani Rohinipragya (Jain Vishva
Bharati University) *The Concept  of ?Sandhi? In Jain Scriptures - A
Hermeneutic Approach*

* *

11.00   Tea & Coffee



11.30   John Cort (Denison University)

*When will I meet such a Guru? Images of the Yog? in Digambara Hymns*



12.00   Johannes Bronkhorst (University of Laussane)

*Kundakunda versus S??khya on the Soul*



12.30   Discussion **

* *

13.00   Lunch: Brunei Gallery Suite



14.00   Christopher Chapple (Loyola Marymount University)

*The Jaina Yogas of Haribhadra*



14.30   Jefferey Long

*Ya?ovijaya?s View of  Yoga*

* *

15.00   Piotr Balcerowicz (University of Warsaw)

*Extrasensory Perception (yogi-pratyak?a) in Jainism and its Soteriological
*

*Implications*



15.30   Tea & Coffee**



16.00   Andrea R. Jain (Rice University)**

*Prek??  Dhy?na: A Jain Form of Modern Yoga*



16.30   Smita Kothari (Toronto University)

*D**?**na and Dhy**?**na in Jaina Yoga*



17.00   Jason Birch (Oxford University)

*Universalist and** Missionary Jainism: Jain Yoga of the Ter?panth?
Tradition*



17.30   Discussion


18.00   Final Remarks

ALL WELCOME !  (No registration necessary)

The Conference is Co-Organised by SOAS, Lund University, Layola University
Los Angeles, and the Victoria and Albert Museum in London. For further
information contact:

Olle Qvarnstr?m: Olle.Qvarnstrom at teol.lu.se
Christopher Chapple: cchapple at lmu.edu
Jane Savory, SOAS Centres Office: js64 at soas.ac.uk


-- 
Dr Peter Fl?gel
Chair, Centre of Jaina Studies
Department of the Study of Religions
Faculty of Arts and Humanities
School of Oriental and African Studies
University of London
Thornhaugh Street
Russell Square
London WC1H OXG

Tel.: (+44-20) 7898 4776
E-mail: pf8 at soas.ac.uk
http://www.soas.ac.uk/jainastudies




From Olle.Qvarnstrom at TEOL.LU.SE  Wed Jan 20 20:45:06 2010
From: Olle.Qvarnstrom at TEOL.LU.SE (=?utf-8?Q?Olle_Qvarnstr=C3=B6m?=)
Date: Wed, 20 Jan 10 21:45:06 +0100
Subject: SV: JAINA YOGA, SOAS 18-19 MARCH 2010
In-Reply-To: <3bb1cb801001201237s61c564e5s54e003e19fa104e7@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <161227088237.23782.16545979318604385093.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

I could not reach Jason but may be just 
The Jain Yoga of the Ter?panth?
Tradition*


________________________________________
Fr?n: Indology [INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk] f&#246;r Peter Flugel [pf8 at SOAS.AC.UK]
Skickat: den 20 januari 2010 21:37
Till: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk
?mne: JAINA YOGA, SOAS 18-19 MARCH 2010

*JAINA YOGA*

*12th Jaina Studies Workshop at SOAS*

* *

*The 10th Annual Jain Lecture*



Thursday, 18th March 2010

18.00-19.30 Brunei Gallery Lecture Theatre

19.30 Reception Brunei Gallery Suite



Sagarmal Jain (P?r?van?th Vidy?p??h, V?r??as?)

*The Historical Development of the Jaina-Yoga System and the Impact of other
Indian Yoga Systems on it: A Comparative and Critical Study*





*Workshop*

* *

Friday, 19th March 2009

9.00, Brunei Gallery Lecture Theatre



9.00     Tea and Coffee



9.15     Welcome



9.30     Olle Qvarnstr?m (Lund University)

*The Concept of Yoga in Jainism*



10.00   Bansidhar Bhatt (University of M?nster)

*Study in Meditational Techniques in Early Jainism*

10.30            Samani Chaitypragya & Samani Rohinipragya (Jain Vishva
Bharati University) *The Concept  of ?Sandhi? In Jain Scriptures - A
Hermeneutic Approach*

* *

11.00   Tea & Coffee



11.30   John Cort (Denison University)

*When will I meet such a Guru? Images of the Yog? in Digambara Hymns*



12.00   Johannes Bronkhorst (University of Laussane)

*Kundakunda versus S??khya on the Soul*



12.30   Discussion **

* *

13.00   Lunch: Brunei Gallery Suite



14.00   Christopher Chapple (Loyola Marymount University)

*The Jaina Yogas of Haribhadra*



14.30   Jefferey Long

*Ya?ovijaya?s View of  Yoga*

* *

15.00   Piotr Balcerowicz (University of Warsaw)

*Extrasensory Perception (yogi-pratyak?a) in Jainism and its Soteriological
*

*Implications*



15.30   Tea & Coffee**



16.00   Andrea R. Jain (Rice University)**

*Prek??  Dhy?na: A Jain Form of Modern Yoga*



16.30   Smita Kothari (Toronto University)

*D**?**na and Dhy**?**na in Jaina Yoga*



17.00   Jason Birch (Oxford University)

*Universalist and** Missionary Jainism: Jain Yoga of the Ter?panth?
Tradition*



17.30   Discussion


18.00   Final Remarks

ALL WELCOME !  (No registration necessary)

The Conference is Co-Organised by SOAS, Lund University, Layola University
Los Angeles, and the Victoria and Albert Museum in London. For further
information contact:

Olle Qvarnstr?m: Olle.Qvarnstrom at teol.lu.se
Christopher Chapple: cchapple at lmu.edu
Jane Savory, SOAS Centres Office: js64 at soas.ac.uk


--
Dr Peter Fl?gel
Chair, Centre of Jaina Studies
Department of the Study of Religions
Faculty of Arts and Humanities
School of Oriental and African Studies
University of London
Thornhaugh Street
Russell Square
London WC1H OXG

Tel.: (+44-20) 7898 4776
E-mail: pf8 at soas.ac.uk
http://www.soas.ac.uk/jainastudies




From pankajaindia at GMAIL.COM  Thu Jan 21 14:04:35 2010
From: pankajaindia at GMAIL.COM (Pankaj Jain)
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 10 14:04:35 +0000
Subject: Asia's Biggest Literature Festival
Message-ID: <161227088239.23782.11340316306750477669.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

http://www.hindustantimes.com/Come-ye-all-to-Asia-s-biggest-literature-fest/H1-Article1-499984.aspx

--------------------------------------------------------
Dr. Pankaj Jain &#2346;&#2306;&#2325;&#2332; &#2332;&amp;#2376;&#2344;
Teaching Assistant Professor
Department of Foreign Languages and Literatures
Department of Philosophy and Religious Studies
Science, Technology & Society Program
North Carolina State University
http://fll.chass.ncsu.edu/faculty_staff/pjain5




From birgit.kellner at UNIVIE.AC.AT  Thu Jan 21 16:48:04 2010
From: birgit.kellner at UNIVIE.AC.AT (Birgit Kellner)
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 10 17:48:04 +0100
Subject: Job: assistant / lecturer in Buddhist Studies,              University of Heidelberg
Message-ID: <161227088241.23782.10442195816387636415.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Dear colleagues,

find below a job advertisement for an assistant / lecturer in Buddhist 
Studies from the University of Heidelberg, Cluster of Excellence "Asia 
and Europe in a Global Context".

To ensure wide circulation, I would like to ask you to kindly forward 
this advertisement to potential applicants.

PDFs for departmental bulletin boards and the like are available for 
download:

English: 
http://www.asia-europe.uni-heidelberg.de/fileadmin/Documents/Job_Announcements/100121_Assistant-Lecturer_Kellner.pdf

German: 
http://www.asia-europe.uni-heidelberg.de/fileadmin/Documents/Job_Announcements/100121_akademMitarbeiter_Kellner.pdf


With best wishes, and apologies for cross-posting,

Birgit Kellner

-----------------------------------------------



The Cluster of Excellence ?Asia and Europe in a Global Context?, 
University of Heidelberg (_www.asia-europe.uni-heidelberg.de 
<http://www.asia-europe.uni-heidelberg.de/>_) is seeking to employ an



*Assistant / Lecturer*

*(TV-L 13)*


*in Buddhist Studies with an area focus on South Asia and Tibet*


The position is initially filled for three years, with optional 
extension. The position should be filled by 1 October 2010 latest. It is 
part of the Cluster of Excellence ?Asia and Europe in a Global Context: 
Asymmetries of Cultural Flows,? funded by the German Federal Excellence 
Initiative. The salary corresponds to level TVL-13 of the German public 
service salary scale.


The assistant / lecturer is expected to teach in the framework of 
bachelor and master programs (one course per semester), to support the 
professor for Buddhist Studies in research, teaching and supervision of 
students, and to assist in organizational and administrative affairs.


The successful candidate has completed (preferably with PhD) a program 
in Buddhist Studies with an area focus in South Asia and Tibet and has 
excellent command of Sanskrit and Classical Tibetan. German is not 
required but German language classes are available. The candidate is 
capable to work in a team and has didactic qualifications. Computer 
literacy appropriate to the field is a prerequisite.


The candidate is willing to engage with a transcultural research 
approach, and to actively participate in the conception of digital 
resources (especially terminological databases). The candidate is also 
willing to acquire the necessary basic technical competence for the 
latter, if needed.


Please submit a CV with publication list, copies of university grade 
transcripts and a sketch of current and future research projects (2-3 
pages) preferably by email (exclusively as one PDF document, no further 
attachments please!) to _kellner at asia-europe.uni-heidelberg.de 
<mailto:brosius at asia-europe.uni-heidelberg.de>_ or per mail to the 
address given below. In the latter case please only send photocopies; 
originals will not be returned.

In cases of equal qualification, aptitude and expertise of the 
applicants, female applicants will be given preferential treatment for 
those salary groups and careers in which females are underrepresented, 
unless there are preponderant reasons to give preference to another 
applicant.

Physically challenged candidates with similar qualifications will be 
given special consideration.

Application deadline is 1 March 2010; interviews will be scheduled for 
the end of March or beginning of April.


Dr. Birgit Kellner
Cluster ?Asia and Europe?
Buddhist Studies
Karl Jaspers Centre for Advanced Transcultural Studies
Geb?ude 4400
Vo?str. 2
69115 Heidelberg




From gruenen at SUB.UNI-GOETTINGEN.DE  Fri Jan 22 09:28:28 2010
From: gruenen at SUB.UNI-GOETTINGEN.DE (Gruenendahl, Reinhold)
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 10 10:28:28 +0100
Subject: GRETIL update#364
Message-ID: <161227088243.23782.14238032256002864310.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

GRETIL is pleased to be able to report the following addition(s) to its
collection:

Badarayana: Brahmasutra
<http://www.sub.uni-goettingen.de/ebene_1/fiindolo/gretil.htm#BadarBrhms2>
(alternative version, revised)


Jayatirtha: Nyayasudha, Adhyaya 2
<http://www.sub.uni-goettingen.de/ebene_1/fiindolo/gretil.htm#JayNysu>
(completed)


Madhva: Anuvyakhyana
<http://www.sub.uni-goettingen.de/ebene_1/fiindolo/gretil.htm#MadhAnuvy>
(revised)

 

__________________________________________________________________________ 

"GRETIL is intended as a cumulative register of the numerous download sites
for electronic texts in Indian languages." (from the 2001 "mission
statement") 

GRETIL - Goettingen Register of Electronic Texts in Indian Languages: 

http://www.sub.uni-goettingen.de/ebene_1/fiindolo/gretil.htm




From mhgorisse at GMAIL.COM  Fri Jan 22 15:03:52 2010
From: mhgorisse at GMAIL.COM (=?utf-8?Q?Marie-H=C3=A9l=C3=A8ne_Gorisse?=)
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 10 16:03:52 +0100
Subject: Could the future Sankhacakravarti please stand up?
Message-ID: <161227088246.23782.11246297523234760291.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Dear members of the Indology list,

I am working on Prabh?candra's *Prameyakamalam?rtanda* and this author, as
well as other Jain and Buddhist authors (notably Siddhasena Div?kara in his
Ny?y?vat?ra and Moks?karagupta in his Bauddhatarkabh?s?) are using the
expression "Sankhacakravarti" to denote a future agent (especially in the
argument of the three times).

Unfortunately, I have not managed to find any tracks of this
Sankhacakravarti neither in Jain mythology, nor in Buddhist cosmology.

May I ask you if anyone have heard about such a character?
If it might be of some help, the one standing for past agents in the *
Prameyakamalam?rtanda* is R?vana.

Thank you very much!!

Best regards,
Marie-H?l?ne Gorisse
http://stl.recherche.univ-lille3.fr/sitespersonnels/rahman/rahmanequipegorisse2006.html




From selwyn at NTLWORLD.COM  Fri Jan 22 16:33:50 2010
From: selwyn at NTLWORLD.COM (L.S. Cousins)
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 10 16:33:50 +0000
Subject: Could the future Sankhacakravarti please stand up?
In-Reply-To: <682e6ebc1001220703i4a2900eaq9426a635c0c4bb8b@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <161227088248.23782.16380688641514015386.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

The cakkavatti(n) Sa?kha is the Universal Monarch at the time of the 
next Buddha: Metteyya/Maitreya. See D?ghanik?ya III 75f.

Lance Cousins

> Dear members of the Indology list,
>
> I am working on Prabh?candra's *Prameyakamalam?rtanda* and this author, as
> well as other Jain and Buddhist authors (notably Siddhasena Div?kara in his
> Ny?y?vat?ra and Moks?karagupta in his Bauddhatarkabh?s?) are using the
> expression "Sankhacakravarti" to denote a future agent (especially in the
> argument of the three times).
>
> Unfortunately, I have not managed to find any tracks of this
> Sankhacakravarti neither in Jain mythology, nor in Buddhist cosmology.
>
> May I ask you if anyone have heard about such a character?
> If it might be of some help, the one standing for past agents in the *
> Prameyakamalam?rtanda* is R?vana.
>
> Thank you very much!!
>
> Best regards,
> Marie-H?l?ne Gorisse
> http://stl.recherche.univ-lille3.fr/sitespersonnels/rahman/rahmanequipegorisse2006.html
>    




From mhgorisse at GMAIL.COM  Fri Jan 22 17:38:24 2010
From: mhgorisse at GMAIL.COM (=?utf-8?Q?Marie-H=C3=A9l=C3=A8ne_Gorisse?=)
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 10 18:38:24 +0100
Subject: Could the future Sankhacakravarti please stand up?
In-Reply-To: <4B59D36E.5030407@ntlworld.com>
Message-ID: <161227088251.23782.13830444789071707624.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Thank you so much!
Bests,
Marie-H?l?ne Gorisse

2010/1/22 L.S. Cousins <selwyn at ntlworld.com>

> The cakkavatti(n) Sa?kha is the Universal Monarch at the time of the next
> Buddha: Metteyya/Maitreya. See D?ghanik?ya III 75f.
>
> Lance Cousins
>
>  Dear members of the Indology list,
>>
>> I am working on Prabh?candra's *Prameyakamalam?rtanda* and this author, as
>> well as other Jain and Buddhist authors (notably Siddhasena Div?kara in
>> his
>> Ny?y?vat?ra and Moks?karagupta in his Bauddhatarkabh?s?) are using the
>>
>> expression "Sankhacakravarti" to denote a future agent (especially in the
>> argument of the three times).
>>
>> Unfortunately, I have not managed to find any tracks of this
>> Sankhacakravarti neither in Jain mythology, nor in Buddhist cosmology.
>>
>> May I ask you if anyone have heard about such a character?
>> If it might be of some help, the one standing for past agents in the *
>> Prameyakamalam?rtanda* is R?vana.
>>
>>
>> Thank you very much!!
>>
>> Best regards,
>> Marie-H?l?ne Gorisse
>>
>>
>> http://stl.recherche.univ-lille3.fr/sitespersonnels/rahman/rahmanequipegorisse2006.html
>>
>>
>




From veltsch at OEAW.AC.AT  Fri Jan 22 21:10:22 2010
From: veltsch at OEAW.AC.AT (Vincent Eltschinger)
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 10 22:10:22 +0100
Subject: Could the future Sankhacakravarti please stand up?
In-Reply-To: <682e6ebc1001220938g2ca9c802g5c770638a187e5b@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <161227088253.23782.10345951371183048825.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Dear Marie-H?l?ne,
Further references (especially to the Divyaavadaana) can be found in
Edgerton's Buddhist Hybrid Sanskrit Dictionary (521b, s.v. 'Sa.nkha).
VE

> Thank you so much!
> Bests,
> Marie-H??l??ne Gorisse
>
> 2010/1/22 L.S. Cousins <selwyn at ntlworld.com>
>
>> The cakkavatti(n) Sa??
kha is the Universal Monarch at the time of the
>> next
>> Buddha: Metteyya/Maitreya. See D??ghanik??ya III 75f.
>>
>> Lance Cousins
>>
>>  Dear members of the Indology list,
>>>
>>> I am working on Prabh???candra's *Prameyakamalam???rtanda* and this
>>> author, as
>>> well as other Jain and Buddhist authors (notably Siddhasena Div???kara
>>> in
>>> his
>>> Ny???y???vat???ra and Moks???karagupta in his Bauddhatarkabh???s???)
>>> are using the
>>>
>>> expression "Sankhacakravarti" to denote a future agent (especially in
>>> the
>>> argument of the three times).
>>>
>>> Unfortunately, I have not managed to find any tracks of this
>>> Sankhacakravarti neither in Jain mythology, nor in Buddhist cosmology.
>>>
>>> May I ask you if anyone have heard about such a character?
>>> If it might be of some help, the one standing for past agents in the *
>>> Prameyakamalam???rtanda* is R???vana.
>>>
>>>
>>> Thank you very much!!
>>>
>>> Best regards,
>>> Marie-H???l???ne Gorisse
>>>
>>>
>>> http://stl.recherche.univ-lille3.fr/sitespersonnels/rahman/rahmanequipegorisse2006.html
>>>
>>>
>>
>




From dominic.goodall at GMAIL.COM  Sat Jan 23 04:16:53 2010
From: dominic.goodall at GMAIL.COM (Dominic Goodall)
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 10 09:46:53 +0530
Subject: more on N=?UTF-8?Q?=C4=81gar=C4=AB?=
Message-ID: <161227088256.23782.5819231402123309902.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

A note to add to the interesting exchanges about script-use and script  
names.

There is a passage in the ?ivadharmottara that appears to recommend  
the copying of ?aiva literature using Nandin?gar? letters. This has  
hitherto been assumed (in an article by R.C. Hazra and, more recently,  
by Paolo Magnone) to be a reference to the South Indian script now  
known as Nandin?gar?, which reached its developed form in the  
Vijayanagara period.

m?tr?nusv?rasa?yogahrasvad?rgh?dilak?itai?|
nandin?garakair var?air lekhayec chivapustakam|| 2.40||

But a Nepalese palm-leaf manuscript transmitting the ?ivadharmottara  
has come to light that appears to have been written at the end of the  
C8th or in the C9th.  The passage in question is to be found in the  
bottom line of the bottom folio of exposure 40 of NGMPP A 12/3.  (The  
3rd p?da of the verse there reads nad?n?garakair var??air, but  
we may perhaps be justified in taking this to be a copying error.)

Nandin?gar?, therefore, is not just the name of a Southern script of  
the Vijayanagara period; it is attested much earlier as a label for a  
different style of lettering.  Furthermore, I think that we can assume  
that the script in question was a Northern one from the way the  
lettering is described in the previous verse.

caturasrai? sama??r?air n?tisth?lair na v? k??ai?|
samp?r??vayavai? snigdhair n?tivicchinnasa?hatai?|| 2.39||

Most of these qualifications could probably be interpreted to describe  
almost any sort of characters, but it seems to me that the instruction  
that they should be neither too thick nor too thin (n?tisth?lair na  
v? k??ai?) narrows the range of possibilities.  For this, it  
seems to me, is very unlikely to have been a formulation chosen if the  
author had been thinking of a scribal tradition in which letters are  
incised into palm-leaves, such as we find in the Southern, Dravidian- 
speaking areas and along much of the Eastern littoral.

Dominic Goodall




From fleming_b4 at HOTMAIL.COM  Sat Jan 23 17:56:22 2010
From: fleming_b4 at HOTMAIL.COM (Benjamin Fleming)
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 10 12:56:22 -0500
Subject: Depictions of children in pre-modern Indian art
In-Reply-To: <d1c0c7391001230950q3c6862fah7572c3bfc9156e7e@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <161227088261.23782.1849398039574809547.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Dear Dominik,
You should look at David Shulman's book, The Hungry God, which in addition to exploring the theme of infanticide in Indian literature, also examines, contains examples of these themes in Indian art. See:http://tinyurl.com/yds4jxt

Best Wishes,Benjy
-- 

Benjamin Fleming Visiting Scholar, 

Dept. of Religious Studies, 

University of Pennsylvania 249 S. 36th Street, 

Claudia Cohen Hall, #234 

Philadelphia, PA 19104 U.S.A. 

Telephone - 215-746-7792

http://www.benjaminfleming.com




> Date: Sat, 23 Jan 2010 18:50:23 +0100
> From: wujastyk at GMAIL.COM
> Subject: Depictions of children in pre-modern Indian art
> To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk
> 
> Dear Colleagues,
> 
> Can you point me to a scholarly discussion of this topic?  What are the
> earliest depictions of children in S. Asian art?  What deductions can be
> made about the idea of the child from any such images?  What I'm thinking
> about is the S. A. evidence that might inform a discussion of the "invention
> of childhood".
> 
> Best,
> Dominik
 		 	   		  
_________________________________________________________________
Hotmail: Free, trusted and rich email service.
http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/196390708/direct/01/




From huntington.2 at OSU.EDU  Sat Jan 23 18:54:46 2010
From: huntington.2 at OSU.EDU (John C. Huntington)
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 10 13:54:46 -0500
Subject: Depictions of children in pre-modern Indian art
In-Reply-To: <d1c0c7391001230950q3c6862fah7572c3bfc9156e7e@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <161227088264.23782.16379456114163896484.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Dear Dominik,

  Children occur in some numbers both on the ca 25BCE toranas of  
Sanchi and in early (2nd through 4th Century) Gandharan Sculpture.

I can help you find some if you want,

John


On Jan 23, 2010, at 12:50 PM, Dominik Wujastyk wrote:

> Dear Colleagues,
>
> Can you point me to a scholarly discussion of this topic?  What are  
> the
> earliest depictions of children in S. Asian art?  What deductions  
> can be
> made about the idea of the child from any such images?  What I'm  
> thinking
> about is the S. A. evidence that might inform a discussion of the  
> "invention
> of childhood".
>
> Best,
> Dominik
>
>
> -- 
> BEGIN-ANTISPAM-VOTING-LINKS
> ------------------------------------------------------
>
> Teach CanIt if this mail (ID 990980231) is spam:
> Spam:        https://antispam.osu.edu/b.php?i=990980231&m=a829a82854f1&c=s
> Not spam:    https://antispam.osu.edu/b.php?i=990980231&m=a829a82854f1&c=n
> Forget vote: https://antispam.osu.edu/b.php?i=990980231&m=a829a82854f1&c=f
> ------------------------------------------------------
> END-ANTISPAM-VOTING-LINKS
>




From wujastyk at GMAIL.COM  Sat Jan 23 17:50:23 2010
From: wujastyk at GMAIL.COM (Dominik Wujastyk)
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 10 18:50:23 +0100
Subject: Depictions of children in pre-modern Indian art
Message-ID: <161227088258.23782.719317860379436982.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Dear Colleagues,

Can you point me to a scholarly discussion of this topic?  What are the
earliest depictions of children in S. Asian art?  What deductions can be
made about the idea of the child from any such images?  What I'm thinking
about is the S. A. evidence that might inform a discussion of the "invention
of childhood".

Best,
Dominik




From mnstorm at MAC.COM  Sun Jan 24 06:03:20 2010
From: mnstorm at MAC.COM (Mary Storm)
Date: Sun, 24 Jan 10 11:33:20 +0530
Subject: Depictions of children in pre-modern Indian art
In-Reply-To: <d1c0c7391001230950q3c6862fah7572c3bfc9156e7e@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <161227088266.23782.18018745632494081491.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

There are children's toys from the Indus Civilization. As for  
depictions of children: children with Hariti in Gandharan art. The  
Buddha is shown as a child in Gandharan art as well as his son Rahula,

Hope this might help,
Mary

Mary N. Storm, Ph.D.
Academic Director and Lecturer
India: National Identity and the Arts
and
Himalayan Buddhist Art and Architecture
SIT Study Abroad
www.sit.edu

F 301 Lado Sarai
New Delhi 110030

Mobile +91 98106 98003
Office Landline  +91 11 2437 8003
Residence Landline +91 11295 53298











On 23-Jan-10, at 11:20 PM, Dominik Wujastyk wrote:

> Dear Colleagues,
>
> Can you point me to a scholarly discussion of this topic?  What are  
> the
> earliest depictions of children in S. Asian art?  What deductions  
> can be
> made about the idea of the child from any such images?  What I'm  
> thinking
> about is the S. A. evidence that might inform a discussion of the  
> "invention
> of childhood".
>
> Best,
> Dominik




From pwyzlic at UNI-BONN.DE  Sun Jan 24 11:02:39 2010
From: pwyzlic at UNI-BONN.DE (Peter Wyzlic)
Date: Sun, 24 Jan 10 12:02:39 +0100
Subject: Depictions of children in pre-modern Indian art
In-Reply-To: <FAFF952C-4A27-4DAD-ACD4-7226EEAC845A@mac.com>
Message-ID: <161227088269.23782.887649501858836677.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Am 24.01.2010 um 07:03 schrieb Mary Storm:

> There are children's toys from the Indus Civilization. As for depictions of children: children with Hariti in Gandharan art. The Buddha is shown as a child in Gandharan art as well as his son Rahula,


There is a thesis on Harappan toy artefacts:

Rogersdotter, Elke: The Forgotten: an Approach on Harappan Toy Artefacts. - Ume?: Faculty of Arts, Archaeology and Sami Studies, 2006
URL: <http://urn.kb.se/resolve?urn=urn:nbn:se:umu:diva-733>

All the best
Peter Wyzlic

--
Institut f?r Orient- und Asienwissenschaften
Abteilung f?r Indologie
Universit?t Bonn
Regina-Pacis-Weg 7
53113 Bonn




From cbpicron at GMX.DE  Sun Jan 24 15:21:06 2010
From: cbpicron at GMX.DE (Claudine Bautze-Picron)
Date: Sun, 24 Jan 10 16:21:06 +0100
Subject: Depictions of children in pre-modern Indian art
In-Reply-To: <d1c0c7391001230950q3c6862fah7572c3bfc9156e7e@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <161227088271.23782.7869536989488981197.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Dear Colleague,

 

 

The following references could be of interest to you:

 

1) Vincent Lef?vre, "L'enfant-mod?le dans la sculpture d'Inde du Sud, des Pallava ? Vijayanagar", in: Les ?ges de la vie dans le monde indien, Actes des journ?es d??tude de Lyon (22-23 juin 2000) ?dit?s par Christine Chojnacki, Paris: Diffusion De Boccard, 2001, pp. 217-231. (Lyon: Centre d??tudes et de Recherches sur l?Occident Romain de l?Universit? Lyon 3, Collection du Centre d??tudes et de Recherches sur l?Occident Romain, Nouvelle s?rie n? 24). (+ some more papers on childhood).

 

2) ?dith Parlier, "L?image de l?enfant dans l?iconographie bouddhique de l?Inde", in : Enfances, ?d. Flora Blanchon, Asie n?4, 1996, p.9-40. And see http://www.creops.paris4.sorbonne.fr/publications_fiche.php?id=5 for the contents of this volume.

 

 

Best,

Claudine Bautze-Picron

 

-----Original Message-----
From: Indology [mailto:INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Dominik Wujastyk
Sent: Samstag, 23. Januar 2010 18:50
To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk
Subject: Depictions of children in pre-modern Indian art

 

Dear Colleagues,

 

Can you point me to a scholarly discussion of this topic?  What are the

earliest depictions of children in S. Asian art?  What deductions can be

made about the idea of the child from any such images?  What I'm thinking

about is the S. A. evidence that might inform a discussion of the "invention

of childhood".

 

Best,

Dominik




From wujastyk at GMAIL.COM  Sun Jan 24 16:52:42 2010
From: wujastyk at GMAIL.COM (Dominik Wujastyk)
Date: Sun, 24 Jan 10 17:52:42 +0100
Subject: Depictions of children in pre-modern Indian art
In-Reply-To: <003001ca9d08$dc6c6170$95452450$@de>
Message-ID: <161227088274.23782.3127566420298215690.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

With many thanks indeed to Claudine Bautze-Picron for the references below,
which I didn't know, and to all the other colleagues who have offered useful
pointers and suggestions.

I realize I should have mentioned the genesis of my query.  The Sanskrit
texts on Graha??nti, or the pacification of demons, are commonly cast as
discourses about how these demons attach children and make them ill.  For
example, the Ravanakum?ratantra, that was studied by Filliozat in the 40s.
However, when one looks at illustrated Graha??nti MSS (Wellcome MS Indic
alpha 1936, 15th century Nepal, for example,  see
here<http://medphoto.wellcome.ac.uk/indexplus/obf_images/9a/15/30a95ed38aedfd8ee660dac8b5f5.jpg>),
the demons are depicted attacking what appear to be adults.  I always
assumed the victims were adult, but my students raised the question with me
that perhaps the victims were intended to be children, but just looked like
adults to us.

Dominik Wujastyk

2010/1/24 Claudine Bautze-Picron <cbpicron at gmx.de>

> Dear Colleague,
>
>
>
>
>
> The following references could be of interest to you:
>
>
>
> 1) Vincent Lef?vre, "L'enfant-mod?le dans la sculpture d'Inde du Sud, des
> Pallava ? Vijayanagar", in: Les ?ges de la vie dans le monde indien, Actes
> des journ?es d??tude de Lyon (22-23 juin 2000) ?dit?s par Christine
> Chojnacki, Paris: Diffusion De Boccard, 2001, pp. 217-231. (Lyon: Centre
> d??tudes et de Recherches sur l?Occident Romain de l?Universit? Lyon 3,
> Collection du Centre d??tudes et de Recherches sur l?Occident Romain,
> Nouvelle s?rie n? 24). (+ some more papers on childhood).
>
>
>
> 2) ?dith Parlier, "L?image de l?enfant dans l?iconographie bouddhique de
> l?Inde", in : Enfances, ?d. Flora Blanchon, Asie n?4, 1996, p.9-40. And see
> http://www.creops.paris4.sorbonne.fr/publications_fiche.php?id=5 for the
> contents of this volume.
>
>
>
>
>
> Best,
>
> Claudine Bautze-Picron
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Indology [mailto:INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Dominik
> Wujastyk
> Sent: Samstag, 23. Januar 2010 18:50
> To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk
> Subject: Depictions of children in pre-modern Indian art
>
>
>
> Dear Colleagues,
>
>
>
> Can you point me to a scholarly discussion of this topic?  What are the
>
> earliest depictions of children in S. Asian art?  What deductions can be
>
> made about the idea of the child from any such images?  What I'm thinking
>
> about is the S. A. evidence that might inform a discussion of the
> "invention
>
> of childhood".
>
>
>
> Best,
>
> Dominik
>




From asko.parpola at HELSINKI.FI  Sun Jan 24 18:09:29 2010
From: asko.parpola at HELSINKI.FI (Asko Parpola)
Date: Sun, 24 Jan 10 20:09:29 +0200
Subject: Depictions of children in pre-modern Indian art
In-Reply-To: <d1c0c7391001240852y2080917co17d5cb1ea734e68d@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <161227088277.23782.15366752496518153498.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Dear Dominik,

On the historical background of demons attacking children and their  
connection with the planets (Sanskrit graha), and cults purporting  
getting children, see my book "Deciphering the Indus script"  
(Cambridge 1994, reprinted in paperback in 2009), especially pp.  
225-239, and my paper "'Hind-leg' + 'Fish': Towards further  
understanding of the Indus script" in Scripta Vol. 1 (2009), pp. 37-76  
(downloadable from www.harappa.com)

With best regards, Asko Parpola


Quoting "Dominik Wujastyk" <wujastyk at GMAIL.COM>:

> With many thanks indeed to Claudine Bautze-Picron for the references below,
> which I didn't know, and to all the other colleagues who have offered useful
> pointers and suggestions.
>
> I realize I should have mentioned the genesis of my query.  The Sanskrit
> texts on Graha??nti, or the pacification of demons, are commonly cast as
> discourses about how these demons attach children and make them ill.  For
> example, the Ravanakum?ratantra, that was studied by Filliozat in the 40s.
> However, when one looks at illustrated Graha??nti MSS (Wellcome MS Indic
> alpha 1936, 15th century Nepal, for example,  see
> here<http://medphoto.wellcome.ac.uk/indexplus/obf_images/9a/15/30a95ed38aedfd8ee660dac8b5f5.jpg>),
> the demons are depicted attacking what appear to be adults.  I always
> assumed the victims were adult, but my students raised the question with me
> that perhaps the victims were intended to be children, but just looked like
> adults to us.
>
> Dominik Wujastyk
>
> 2010/1/24 Claudine Bautze-Picron <cbpicron at gmx.de>
>
>> Dear Colleague,
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> The following references could be of interest to you:
>>
>>
>>
>> 1) Vincent Lef?vre, "L'enfant-mod?le dans la sculpture d'Inde du Sud, des
>> Pallava ? Vijayanagar", in: Les ?ges de la vie dans le monde indien, Actes
>> des journ?es d??tude de Lyon (22-23 juin 2000) ?dit?s par Christine
>> Chojnacki, Paris: Diffusion De Boccard, 2001, pp. 217-231. (Lyon: Centre
>> d??tudes et de Recherches sur l?Occident Romain de l?Universit? Lyon 3,
>> Collection du Centre d??tudes et de Recherches sur l?Occident Romain,
>> Nouvelle s?rie n? 24). (+ some more papers on childhood).
>>
>>
>>
>> 2) ?dith Parlier, "L?image de l?enfant dans l?iconographie bouddhique de
>> l?Inde", in : Enfances, ?d. Flora Blanchon, Asie n?4, 1996, p.9-40. And see
>> http://www.creops.paris4.sorbonne.fr/publications_fiche.php?id=5 for the
>> contents of this volume.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Best,
>>
>> Claudine Bautze-Picron
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Indology [mailto:INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Dominik
>> Wujastyk
>> Sent: Samstag, 23. Januar 2010 18:50
>> To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk
>> Subject: Depictions of children in pre-modern Indian art
>>
>>
>>
>> Dear Colleagues,
>>
>>
>>
>> Can you point me to a scholarly discussion of this topic?  What are the
>>
>> earliest depictions of children in S. Asian art?  What deductions can be
>>
>> made about the idea of the child from any such images?  What I'm thinking
>>
>> about is the S. A. evidence that might inform a discussion of the
>> "invention
>>
>> of childhood".
>>
>>
>>
>> Best,
>>
>> Dominik
>>
>
>




From wujastyk at GMAIL.COM  Sun Jan 24 21:35:07 2010
From: wujastyk at GMAIL.COM (Dominik Wujastyk)
Date: Sun, 24 Jan 10 22:35:07 +0100
Subject: Depictions of children in pre-modern Indian art
In-Reply-To: <20100124200929.26525ndhkeuwah21@webmail.helsinki.fi>
Message-ID: <161227088280.23782.4737978286516297103.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

I have read some of the materials you mention, Asko, and thank you for the
references.  I look forward to digging in.

One thing: Michio Yano has shown (refs. below) that "graha" in the classical
ayurvedic texts almost never refers to planets.  The medical discourse is
about (potentially) malevolent, mostly female, sometimes bird-like, beings.
They have no planetary aspect.

Yano finds only three passages, interestingly all from the Susrutasamhita,
in which "graha" refers to a heavenly body (Su 1.6.19, 1.32.4,
6.39.266cd-267ab, Trikamji's NS 1938 edition).  Yano also analyses the
history of the semantic shift of "graha", saying as you do in "Hind-leg"
that the story begins with an eclipse demon.  But you refer (p.50) to the
"oldest Tamil and Sanskrit texts" as already referring to something
heavenly.  At lest for the ayurveda literature, which you discuss on p.54, I
would say that the grahas are not in any association with the heavens.  Your
characterisation of them as malignant demons is, I think, quite right.  In
your book Deciphering, you discuss the medical texts without actually saying
outright that you think they are talking about planets.  But on p.237b you
say that "there can be little doubt about the identity of Skanda-graha with
the red planet Mars".  To me, there can.  I see nothing in the text itself
that suggests this.  Wider arguments from other contexts may point to
Skanda=Mars, and that may illuminate subterranean connections in the
ayurvedic texts for the comparativist, but the ayurvedic text itself at this
point gives no hint of any planetary connection.

The tradition of manuscript illustration in the medical graha??nti texts
that I have studied, mainly Nepalese MSS of the 15-19 century, also gives no
planetary connection.  Pingree's extraordinary paper (
http://www.jstor.org/pss/751535) on the planetary images found in Wellcome
MS Indic alpha 721, painted in about 1700, traces the literary history of
graha??nti rituals in India to the Vaikhanasa literature of the fourth or
fifth century AD (p.4).  (Incidentally, Pingree also reminds us that
Sphujidhvaja assigns Skanda to be the deva of the planet Mars.)  But the
images in Wellcome MS Indic alpha 721 are not connected with the text of
that MS (Lagnacandrik?), nor are they connected in any way with ayurvedic
medicine.

Best,
Dominik Wujastyk

1. "Calendar, Astrology, and Astronomy", in Gavin Flood (ed.), The Blackwell
Companion to Hinduism, 2003.

2. "Planet Worship in Ancient India" in Hogendijk, J. P.; Plofker, K. &
Yano, M. (eds.) Ketuprak??a: Studies in the History of the Exact Sciences in
Honour of David Pingree, Brill, 2004, 331-48.


2010/1/24 Asko Parpola <asko.parpola at helsinki.fi>

> Dear Dominik,
>
> On the historical background of demons attacking children and their
> connection with the planets (Sanskrit graha), and cults purporting getting
> children, see my book "Deciphering the Indus script" (Cambridge 1994,
> reprinted in paperback in 2009), especially pp. 225-239, and my paper
> "'Hind-leg' + 'Fish': Towards further understanding of the Indus script" in
> Scripta Vol. 1 (2009), pp. 37-76 (downloadable from www.harappa.com)
>
> With best regards, Asko Parpola
>
>
>
> Quoting "Dominik Wujastyk" <wujastyk at GMAIL.COM>:
>
>  With many thanks indeed to Claudine Bautze-Picron for the references
>> below,
>> which I didn't know, and to all the other colleagues who have offered
>> useful
>> pointers and suggestions.
>>
>> I realize I should have mentioned the genesis of my query.  The Sanskrit
>> texts on Graha??nti, or the pacification of demons, are commonly cast as
>> discourses about how these demons attach children and make them ill.  For
>> example, the Ravanakum?ratantra, that was studied by Filliozat in the 40s.
>> However, when one looks at illustrated Graha??nti MSS (Wellcome MS Indic
>> alpha 1936, 15th century Nepal, for example,  see
>> here<
>> http://medphoto.wellcome.ac.uk/indexplus/obf_images/9a/15/30a95ed38aedfd8ee660dac8b5f5.jpg
>> >),
>>
>> the demons are depicted attacking what appear to be adults.  I always
>> assumed the victims were adult, but my students raised the question with
>> me
>> that perhaps the victims were intended to be children, but just looked
>> like
>> adults to us.
>>
>> Dominik Wujastyk
>>
>> 2010/1/24 Claudine Bautze-Picron <cbpicron at gmx.de>
>>
>>  Dear Colleague,
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> The following references could be of interest to you:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> 1) Vincent Lef?vre, "L'enfant-mod?le dans la sculpture d'Inde du Sud, des
>>> Pallava ? Vijayanagar", in: Les ?ges de la vie dans le monde indien,
>>> Actes
>>> des journ?es d??tude de Lyon (22-23 juin 2000) ?dit?s par Christine
>>> Chojnacki, Paris: Diffusion De Boccard, 2001, pp. 217-231. (Lyon: Centre
>>> d??tudes et de Recherches sur l?Occident Romain de l?Universit? Lyon 3,
>>> Collection du Centre d??tudes et de Recherches sur l?Occident Romain,
>>> Nouvelle s?rie n? 24). (+ some more papers on childhood).
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> 2) ?dith Parlier, "L?image de l?enfant dans l?iconographie bouddhique de
>>> l?Inde", in : Enfances, ?d. Flora Blanchon, Asie n?4, 1996, p.9-40. And
>>> see
>>> http://www.creops.paris4.sorbonne.fr/publications_fiche.php?id=5 for the
>>> contents of this volume.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Best,
>>>
>>> Claudine Bautze-Picron
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Indology [mailto:INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Dominik
>>> Wujastyk
>>> Sent: Samstag, 23. Januar 2010 18:50
>>> To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk
>>> Subject: Depictions of children in pre-modern Indian art
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Dear Colleagues,
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Can you point me to a scholarly discussion of this topic?  What are the
>>>
>>> earliest depictions of children in S. Asian art?  What deductions can be
>>>
>>> made about the idea of the child from any such images?  What I'm thinking
>>>
>>> about is the S. A. evidence that might inform a discussion of the
>>> "invention
>>>
>>> of childhood".
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Best,
>>>
>>> Dominik
>>>
>>>
>>
>>




From fleming_b4 at HOTMAIL.COM  Mon Jan 25 05:50:01 2010
From: fleming_b4 at HOTMAIL.COM (Benjamin Fleming)
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 10 00:50:01 -0500
Subject: History and Material Culture in Asian Religion
Message-ID: <161227088283.23782.16960371960057562351.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Dear List Members,
[Apologies for cross-posting]
I would like to draw your attention to an upcoming conference at theUniversity of Pennsylvania on March 21st - 22nd:
History and Material Culture in Asian Religions
http://www.benjaminfleming.com/material_culture/
See the current list of speakers and topics pasted below. Theconference will be open to the public. If anyone is interested inattending please contact me off-list as we would like to keep trackof our potential numbers.
The conference schedule and web page will be updated in the comingweeks. More details about the precise schedule of speakers will beforthcoming.
Best Wishes,
Benjamin Fleming 
_______________________  
Tentative List of Speakers and Paper Topics Kevin Bond (University of Regina)"Marketing Miracles: Buddhism, Commercialism, and Entertainment inEarly Modern Japan"
Gudrun Buhnemann (University of Wisconsin-Madison) "On the Iconography and Date of the Golden Window in Patan" 
Shayne Clarke (McMaster University)"Motherhood amidst the Sisterhood: Reading Inscriptional Evidence inLight of Buddhist Monastic Law Codes" Benjamin Fleming (University of Pennsylvania)"Buddhists and Brahmins under the Reign of Sricandra: New Evidencefrom Copperplate Inscriptions" Shaman Hatley (Concordia University)"Goddesses in Text and Stone: Temples of the Yoginis in Light ofTantric Saiva Literature"
Jinah Kim (Vanderbilt University/Institute for Advanced Study)"Animating the Dharma: 3D World of Medieval Buddhist Books in SouthAsia" Richard Mann (Carleton University)"The Rise of Mahasena: Skanda, Vishakha and Mahasena on the GoldCoinage of Huvishka"
Justin McDaniel (University of Pennsylvania)"Beyond Narrative: Murals and Material Culture in Thailand" Dirk Meyer (Oxford University)"Bamboo and the Production of Philosophy: A Hypothesis about a Shiftin Writing and Thought in Early China" Jason Neelis (University of Florida)"Gandharan Materials and Manuscripts from Contact Zones betweenSouth Asia and Central Asia: Crucial Evidence for Patterns ofBuddhist Transmission" Annette Yoshiko Reed (University of Pennsylvania)"Eurasian Trade and the Connections between "West" and "East":Reconsidering Early Christian References to Asia" James Robson (Harvard University)"Things Inside of Things: On the Materials Found Inside of ChineseIcons" Tamara Sears (Yale University)"Embodying Ascetics in Early Medieval India"
-- 

Benjamin Fleming Visiting Scholar, 

Dept. of Religious Studies, 

University of Pennsylvania 249 S. 36th Street, 

Claudia Cohen Hall, #234 

Philadelphia, PA 19104 U.S.A. 

Telephone - 215-746-7792

http://www.benjaminfleming.com


 		 	   		  
_________________________________________________________________
Hotmail: Trusted email with Microsoft?s powerful SPAM protection.
http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/196390706/direct/01/




From fleming_b4 at HOTMAIL.COM  Mon Jan 25 16:11:09 2010
From: fleming_b4 at HOTMAIL.COM (Benjamin Fleming)
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 10 11:11:09 -0500
Subject: Formating, Spacing, etc.
Message-ID: <161227088286.23782.17320210277166397534.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Dear List members,
I am curious if anyone has suggestions for ensuring correct formating for messages to this list? I do not use an email program for my hotmail account and the lists I access through it, but send directly from my browser. Inevitably all the spacing is removed (or added in some cases) and I haven't been able to gain control over this. As in my last message about the Material Culture conference, long lists of data, spaced for readability in my original message, became conflated into a single run-on paragraph when filtered through the list. 
Any suggestion for fixing this issue would be greatly appreciated!
Best Wishes,BF

-- 

Benjamin Fleming Visiting Scholar, 

Dept. of Religious Studies, 

University of Pennsylvania 249 S. 36th Street, 

Claudia Cohen Hall, #234 

Philadelphia, PA 19104 U.S.A. 

Telephone - 215-746-7792

http://www.benjaminfleming.com


 		 	   		  
_________________________________________________________________
Hotmail: Free, trusted and rich email service.
http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/196390708/direct/01/




From athr at LOC.GOV  Mon Jan 25 19:11:06 2010
From: athr at LOC.GOV (Allen W Thrasher)
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 10 14:11:06 -0500
Subject: offer of book on Nepali Congress Party figure
Message-ID: <161227088292.23782.13088433417018480497.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

We have been sent 3 copies of this book, which has already been acquired by the Nepal representative for the Cooperative Acquisitions Program.  If anyone at a US institution wants a copy or an extra copy for their library, please have the librarian contact me.  If your library participates in the CAP a copy has presumably already been ordered for it.   According to the covering letter it centers on the struggle for human rights in Pokhara.

Allen

>>> <voyager at ilssv3.loc.gov> 1/25/2010 1:54 PM >>>

LC Control No.:      2009306674

Type of Material:  Book (Print, Microform, Electronic, etc.)

Personal Name:     Koir?al?a, R?ajendranidhi, 1951- 

Main Title:        Samjhanai samjhan?aharu / R?ajendranidhi Koir?al?a.

Edition Information:
                   1. samskarana.

Published/Created: [Pokhara] : R?it?adev?i Koir?al?a, 2065 [2008]

Description:       175 p. : ill. ; 23 cm.

Summary:           Memoirs of a political activist from Nepal.

Notes:             In Nepali.

Subjects:          Koir?al?a, R?ajendranidhi, 1951- 
                   Political activists--Nepal--Biography.

LC Classification: DS495.652.A-ZK+

Overseas Acquisitions No.:
                   N-N-2009-306674; 22

Reproduction No./Source:
                   Library of Congress -- New Delhi Overseas Office Rs155.00

Geographic Area Code:
                   a-np---

Quality Code:      lcode

                         ______________________________

-- Request in:     Asian Reading Room (Jefferson, LJ150)
-- Status:          In Process 10-28-2009

================================================================================



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From mjslouber at BERKELEY.EDU  Mon Jan 25 17:05:30 2010
From: mjslouber at BERKELEY.EDU (Michael Slouber)
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 10 18:05:30 +0100
Subject: Depictions of children in pre-modern Indian art
In-Reply-To: <d1c0c7391001240852y2080917co17d5cb1ea734e68d@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <161227088288.23782.9350215019467550170.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Dear Dominik,

In one Graha??nti type Newari manuscript I have a copy of (filmed as NGMPP reel no. E1689/4), there do seem to be some children depicted.  You can view a figure <here> that is very likely to be a child, while some others are more ambiguous.  The lower folio shows a short and chubby figure wearing the protective anklets that Newars still put on their children to ward off harmful grahas and the like.   Several of the figures in this text appear to be women, perhaps pregnant women who along with their unborn are especially vulnerable.  

Richard Mann's 2003 dissertation (McMaster University) "The Early Cult of Skanda in North India: From Demon to Divine Son" should be of interest if you haven't seen it already.

Sincerely,

Michael Slouber
UC Berkeley, Universit?t Hamburg




On Jan 24, 2010, at 5:52 PM, Dominik Wujastyk wrote:

> With many thanks indeed to Claudine Bautze-Picron for the references below,
> which I didn't know, and to all the other colleagues who have offered useful
> pointers and suggestions.
> 
> I realize I should have mentioned the genesis of my query.  The Sanskrit
> texts on Graha??nti, or the pacification of demons, are commonly cast as
> discourses about how these demons attach children and make them ill.  For
> example, the Ravanakum?ratantra, that was studied by Filliozat in the 40s.
> However, when one looks at illustrated Graha??nti MSS (Wellcome MS Indic
> alpha 1936, 15th century Nepal, for example,  see
> here<http://medphoto.wellcome.ac.uk/indexplus/obf_images/9a/15/30a95ed38aedfd8ee660dac8b5f5.jpg>),
> the demons are depicted attacking what appear to be adults.  I always
> assumed the victims were adult, but my students raised the question with me
> that perhaps the victims were intended to be children, but just looked like
> adults to us.
> 
> Dominik Wujastyk
> 
> 2010/1/24 Claudine Bautze-Picron <cbpicron at gmx.de>
> 
>> Dear Colleague,
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> The following references could be of interest to you:
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 1) Vincent Lef?vre, "L'enfant-mod?le dans la sculpture d'Inde du Sud, des
>> Pallava ? Vijayanagar", in: Les ?ges de la vie dans le monde indien, Actes
>> des journ?es d??tude de Lyon (22-23 juin 2000) ?dit?s par Christine
>> Chojnacki, Paris: Diffusion De Boccard, 2001, pp. 217-231. (Lyon: Centre
>> d??tudes et de Recherches sur l?Occident Romain de l?Universit? Lyon 3,
>> Collection du Centre d??tudes et de Recherches sur l?Occident Romain,
>> Nouvelle s?rie n? 24). (+ some more papers on childhood).
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 2) ?dith Parlier, "L?image de l?enfant dans l?iconographie bouddhique de
>> l?Inde", in : Enfances, ?d. Flora Blanchon, Asie n?4, 1996, p.9-40. And see
>> http://www.creops.paris4.sorbonne.fr/publications_fiche.php?id=5 for the
>> contents of this volume.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Best,
>> 
>> Claudine Bautze-Picron
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Indology [mailto:INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Dominik
>> Wujastyk
>> Sent: Samstag, 23. Januar 2010 18:50
>> To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk
>> Subject: Depictions of children in pre-modern Indian art
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Dear Colleagues,
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Can you point me to a scholarly discussion of this topic?  What are the
>> 
>> earliest depictions of children in S. Asian art?  What deductions can be
>> 
>> made about the idea of the child from any such images?  What I'm thinking
>> 
>> about is the S. A. evidence that might inform a discussion of the
>> "invention
>> 
>> of childhood".
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Best,
>> 
>> Dominik
>> 




From mjslouber at BERKELEY.EDU  Mon Jan 25 17:09:22 2010
From: mjslouber at BERKELEY.EDU (Michael Slouber)
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 10 18:09:22 +0100
Subject: Depictions of children in pre-modern Indian art
In-Reply-To: <64657425-86AF-4379-A91E-1DF2B4D3118F@berkeley.edu>
Message-ID: <161227088290.23782.149752937303531626.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

The link appears to have not come through.  Here it is in full:

http://s1001.photobucket.com/albums/af140/mjslouber/?action=view&current=example.jpg&evt=user_media_share





On Jan 25, 2010, at 6:05 PM, Michael Slouber wrote:

> Dear Dominik,
> 
> In one Graha??nti type Newari manuscript I have a copy of (filmed as NGMPP reel no. E1689/4), there do seem to be some children depicted.  You can view a figure <here> that is very likely to be a child, while some others are more ambiguous.  The lower folio shows a short and chubby figure wearing the protective anklets that Newars still put on their children to ward off harmful grahas and the like.   Several of the figures in this text appear to be women, perhaps pregnant women who along with their unborn are especially vulnerable.  
> 
> Richard Mann's 2003 dissertation (McMaster University) "The Early Cult of Skanda in North India: From Demon to Divine Son" should be of interest if you haven't seen it already.
> 
> Sincerely,
> 
> Michael Slouber
> UC Berkeley, Universit?t Hamburg
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On Jan 24, 2010, at 5:52 PM, Dominik Wujastyk wrote:
> 
>> With many thanks indeed to Claudine Bautze-Picron for the references below,
>> which I didn't know, and to all the other colleagues who have offered useful
>> pointers and suggestions.
>> 
>> I realize I should have mentioned the genesis of my query.  The Sanskrit
>> texts on Graha??nti, or the pacification of demons, are commonly cast as
>> discourses about how these demons attach children and make them ill.  For
>> example, the Ravanakum?ratantra, that was studied by Filliozat in the 40s.
>> However, when one looks at illustrated Graha??nti MSS (Wellcome MS Indic
>> alpha 1936, 15th century Nepal, for example,  see
>> here<http://medphoto.wellcome.ac.uk/indexplus/obf_images/9a/15/30a95ed38aedfd8ee660dac8b5f5.jpg>),
>> the demons are depicted attacking what appear to be adults.  I always
>> assumed the victims were adult, but my students raised the question with me
>> that perhaps the victims were intended to be children, but just looked like
>> adults to us.
>> 
>> Dominik Wujastyk
>> 
>> 2010/1/24 Claudine Bautze-Picron <cbpicron at gmx.de>
>> 
>>> Dear Colleague,
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> The following references could be of interest to you:
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 1) Vincent Lef?vre, "L'enfant-mod?le dans la sculpture d'Inde du Sud, des
>>> Pallava ? Vijayanagar", in: Les ?ges de la vie dans le monde indien, Actes
>>> des journ?es d??tude de Lyon (22-23 juin 2000) ?dit?s par Christine
>>> Chojnacki, Paris: Diffusion De Boccard, 2001, pp. 217-231. (Lyon: Centre
>>> d??tudes et de Recherches sur l?Occident Romain de l?Universit? Lyon 3,
>>> Collection du Centre d??tudes et de Recherches sur l?Occident Romain,
>>> Nouvelle s?rie n? 24). (+ some more papers on childhood).
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 2) ?dith Parlier, "L?image de l?enfant dans l?iconographie bouddhique de
>>> l?Inde", in : Enfances, ?d. Flora Blanchon, Asie n?4, 1996, p.9-40. And see
>>> http://www.creops.paris4.sorbonne.fr/publications_fiche.php?id=5 for the
>>> contents of this volume.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Best,
>>> 
>>> Claudine Bautze-Picron
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Indology [mailto:INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Dominik
>>> Wujastyk
>>> Sent: Samstag, 23. Januar 2010 18:50
>>> To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk
>>> Subject: Depictions of children in pre-modern Indian art
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Dear Colleagues,
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Can you point me to a scholarly discussion of this topic?  What are the
>>> 
>>> earliest depictions of children in S. Asian art?  What deductions can be
>>> 
>>> made about the idea of the child from any such images?  What I'm thinking
>>> 
>>> about is the S. A. evidence that might inform a discussion of the
>>> "invention
>>> 
>>> of childhood".
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Best,
>>> 
>>> Dominik
>>> 
> 




From conlon at U.WASHINGTON.EDU  Tue Jan 26 14:59:28 2010
From: conlon at U.WASHINGTON.EDU (Frank Conlon)
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 10 06:59:28 -0800
Subject: H-ASIA: NEWS Sheldon Pollock and Hermann Kulke awarded Padma Shri
Message-ID: <161227088306.23782.5905218221616448570.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

H-ASIA
January 26, 2010

Sheldon Pollock and Hermann Kulke awarded Padma Shri by Government of 
India
************************************************************************
From: Ananya Vajpeyi <ananya.vajpeyi at gmail.com>

The Government of India has announced, among its Republic Day (today) 
honors, the award of Padma Shri to Professor Sheldon Pollock and Professor 
Hermann Kulke.

  http://news.outlookindia.com/item.aspx?673485

"German Indologist Professor Hermann Kulke who is a regular 
visiting faculty to various Indian universities and Sanskrit 
scholar at Columbia University Sheldon I Pollock have been 
selected for Padma Shree in the Literature and Education category."

Congratulations to Shelly and Hermann! [And thanks to Ananya Vajpeyi for 
bringing this to our attention.  FFC]

--
Ananya Vajpeyi, Ph.D.
Assistant Professor of History
University of Massachusetts, Boston
McCormack Building, M-4-626
100, Morrissey Boulevard
Boston MA 02125-3393
V: 617 287 6877
F: 617 287 6899
E: ananya.vajpeyi at umb.edu
http://www.umb.edu/academics/cla/dept/history/faculty/vajpeyi.html
******************************************************************
         To post to  H-ASIA  simply send your message to:
                         <H-ASIA at h-net.msu.edu>
           For holidays or short absences send post to:
                 <listserv at h-net.msu.edu> with message:
                         SET H-ASIA NOMAIL
        Upon return, send post with message SET H-ASIA MAIL
        H-ASIA WEB HOMEPAGE URL:    http://h-net.msu.edu/~asia/




From jrasik at COLMEX.MX  Tue Jan 26 14:21:51 2010
From: jrasik at COLMEX.MX (Rasik Vihari Joshi Tripathi)
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 10 08:21:51 -0600
Subject: Report on the accident of Munishri Jambuvijayji and colleagues
Message-ID: <161227088304.23782.2399112937976153796.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Dear Dominik,It seems my name has been removed from the membership list
of INDILOGY. I was a member for the past several years. I would lie to a
member again. Kindly help me.
Rasik Vihari Josh M.A.,,Ph.D.(Banaras), D Litt (Paris)Professor of
Sanskrit
El Colegio de Mexico, Mexico


-----Mensaje original-----
De: Indology [mailto:INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk] En nombre de Dominik
Wujastyk
Enviado el: Lunes, 18 de Enero de 2010 09:51 a.m.
Para: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk
Asunto: Report on the accident of Munishri Jambuvijayji and colleagues


Dear colleagues,

A "Report on the accident of Param Pujya Munishri Jambuvijayji Maharaj
Saheb" by Hiroko Matsuoka has been posted to the "Members' queries and
information" section of the INDOLOGY website, http://indology.info
See:

     http://indology.info/email/email-members.shtml

It is a PDF file (600kb).

Ms Matsuoka was in the harrowing situation of being one of the party
travelling with Jambuvijayaji and his colleagues at the time of the
accident, and she arrived on the scene less than an hour after the
event, and before the arrival of the police.  Ms Matsuoka has granted
permission for her account to be shared on the internet with members of
the INDOLOGY list.

Dominik Wujastyk
INDOLOGY website




From lubint at WLU.EDU  Tue Jan 26 15:31:03 2010
From: lubint at WLU.EDU (Lubin, Tim)
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 10 10:31:03 -0500
Subject: BitComet as (simpler?) alternative to wget
Message-ID: <161227088308.23782.6464228141886932404.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

One can use a free batch downloader called BitComet to download DLI books in one go -- no bash scripts necessary.  

Once the program is installed, open it, press Ctrl+B for the batch download dialogue box, and paste the entire URL of the first page in the upper field.  One way to get this URL is to open the book in the DLI website's reader interface, which will produce a URL like this:

http://www.new.dli.ernet.in/scripts/FullindexDefault.htm?path1=/rawdataupload1/upload/0132/045&first=1&last=268&barcode=99999990133383
\
Then remove "FullindexDefault.htm?path1=/" and the whole string beginning with the first &, and append: PTIFF/00000001.tif

to produce:

http://www.new.dli.ernet.in/rawdataupload1/upload/0132/045/PTIFF/00000001.tif

Then in the second field of the batch download dialogue box, insert this same URL, but replace the 00000001 with the number of the last page preceded by enough 0's to make eight digits.  The last page number can be found in the original URL after the string "&last=".  In the example above, this will produce:

http://www.new.dli.ernet.in/rawdataupload1/upload/0132/045/PTIFF/00000268.tif

Then click ADD and DOWNLOAD NOW.

The tifs can then be combined in Acrobat into a single PDF.  

Tim


________________________________________
From: Indology [INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Dominik Wujastyk [ucgadkw at UCL.AC.UK]
Sent: Thursday, January 14, 2010 6:29 AM
To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk
Subject: wget (was: Re: Abhandlungen der K?nigliche n Akademie der  Wissensch aften zu Berli)

Birgit is quite right about the value of wget.  It's an amazing little
tool.  I use it routinely to get books from the Digital Library of India,
where texts are presented only as individual pages.

Until about a year ago, one could use the "-r" recursion setting of wget
to fetch a whole directory-full of files in one go.  Then the DLI disabled
that feature.  So now one has to issue a wget command for each page.
But it's easy to do with a small bash script like this:

---------- cut here -----------
#!/bin/sh

# fetch Kapadia_Desc.Cat.Govt.Colls.MSS.BORI-Jaina
# Literature and Philosophy XIX.1 Svetambara Works_1957

for i in {00000001..397..1}
        do
                wget http://www.new.dli.ernet.in/data/upload/0048/903/PTIFF/$i.tif
        done
---------- cut here -----------

The magic number "371" is the number of pages in the book, which DLI tells
you.  In Firefox, you can find out the directory in which a book's TIFF
files live by loading a page of the book and then hitting Tools/Page Info
and selecting "media".

Bash is the default shell in Linux; it's also available to Windows users
by installing the excellent Cygwin.

Best,
Dominik



On Tue, 12 Jan 2010, Birgit Kellner wrote:

> Jonathan Silk wrote:
> > I have a feeling I may be an idiot (well, I'm sure in other respects, but in
> > this case...): I learn from Indologica that we can find online the
> > *Abhandlungen
> > der K?niglichen Akademie der Wissenschaften zu Berlin. *
> >
> > When I go, however, for example to
> > http://bibliothek.bbaw.de/bibliothek-digital/digitalequellen/schriften/anzeige/index_html?band=07-abh/1844&seite:int=711,
> > I can only get one page at a time; is there not a way to download an entire
> > article?
> >
> > Thanks for your advice!  Jonathan
> >
> >
> The interface unfortunately doesn't offer the possibility to download
> several pages at once (as a PDF, for instance), no.
>
> There is a workaround, but it's a bit time-consuming:
>
> 1.) Click on a page image with the desired size ("large", for instance).
> You see the JPG file and get a link like this in the browser's URL line:
>
> http://bibliothek.bbaw.de/thumbnail?band=07-abh/1844&aufloesung:int=2&img=DAS_jpg/07-abh/1844/jpg-1000/00000002.jpg&seite:int=2
>
> This means that the image file is stored in this directory:
>
> http://bibliothek.bbaw.de/DAS_jpg/07-abh/1844/jpg-1000/
>
> 2.) If you have the wonderful little tool wget installed, run
>
> wget -r http://bibliothek.bbaw.de/DAS_jpg/07-abh/1844/jpg-1000/
>
> from the command line.
>
> This gets you all images for the volume in question to a local folder.
> You can then create a PDF file with these images (even run OCR on them
> before), with, for instance Adobe Acrobat Pro (on Windows); I gather on
> a recent Mac OS, there should already be tools available in the
> operating system for the job.
>
> I trust the real geeks on the list can provide further advice :-)
>
> Best,
>
> b
>

--
--
After nearly 25 years, I'm phasing out this UCL email account.
Please switch over to using the email address wujastyk at gmail.com

!SIG:4b4f0048141301638493625!




From wujastyk at GMAIL.COM  Tue Jan 26 09:51:18 2010
From: wujastyk at GMAIL.COM (Dominik Wujastyk)
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 10 10:51:18 +0100
Subject: Depictions of children in pre-modern Indian art
In-Reply-To: <64657425-86AF-4379-A91E-1DF2B4D3118F@berkeley.edu>
Message-ID: <161227088297.23782.3650266535606527214.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Thank you, Michael,

The images in the MS you refer to are really interesting, and grist to my
mill.  The series of images is exactly what I've been dealing with in the
Wellcome MSS, but in your NGMPP example, the drawings are simpler, not in
colour, and perhaps later (19th cent?).  And yes, hooray, the images are
clearly of children, at least in several cases.

The Mann thesis is most interesting, and I was unaware of it.

Thanks indeed!

Dominik

2010/1/25 Michael Slouber <mjslouber at berkeley.edu>

> Dear Dominik,
>
> In one Graha??nti type Newari manuscript I have a copy of (filmed as NGMPP
> reel no. E1689/4), there do seem to be some children depicted.  You can view
> a figure <here> that is very likely to be a child, while some others are
> more ambiguous.  The lower folio shows a short and chubby figure wearing the
> protective anklets that Newars still put on their children to ward off
> harmful grahas and the like.   Several of the figures in this text appear to
> be women, perhaps pregnant women who along with their unborn are especially
> vulnerable.
>
> Richard Mann's 2003 dissertation (McMaster University) "The Early Cult of
> Skanda in North India: From Demon to Divine Son" should be of interest if
> you haven't seen it already.
>
> Sincerely,
>
> Michael Slouber
> UC Berkeley, Universit?t Hamburg
>
>
>




From wujastyk at GMAIL.COM  Tue Jan 26 09:55:19 2010
From: wujastyk at GMAIL.COM (Dominik Wujastyk)
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 10 10:55:19 +0100
Subject: Formating, Spacing, etc.
In-Reply-To: <BLU128-W1094C3E473F317252EFA07A45F0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <161227088299.23782.8842108740687446387.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

I'm not aware that the INDOLOGY listserv software does anything at all to
emails.  It's just a reflector.  You refer to "filtered through the list",
but there's no filtering going on.  What the listserv receives, it bounces
directly out to the membership.  I would look at your local settings for the
cause of this blip.  Do you have a setting for making outgoing emails be in
"plain text" or some such name?  Try turning off any "rich formatting"
features.  Just a thought.

Best,
Dominik


2010/1/25 Benjamin Fleming <fleming_b4 at hotmail.com>

> Dear List members,
> I am curious if anyone has suggestions for ensuring correct formating for
> messages to this list? I do not use an email program for my hotmail account
> and the lists I access through it, but send directly from my browser.
> Inevitably all the spacing is removed (or added in some cases) and I haven't
> been able to gain control over this. As in my last message about the
> Material Culture conference, long lists of data, spaced for readability in
> my original message, became conflated into a single run-on paragraph when
> filtered through the list.
> Any suggestion for fixing this issue would be greatly appreciated!
> Best Wishes,BF
>
> --
>
> Benjamin Fleming Visiting Scholar,
>
> Dept. of Religious Studies,
>
> University of Pennsylvania 249 S. 36th Street,
>
> Claudia Cohen Hall, #234
>
> Philadelphia, PA 19104 U.S.A.
>
> Telephone - 215-746-7792
>
> http://www.benjaminfleming.com
>
>
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Hotmail: Free, trusted and rich email service.
> http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/196390708/direct/01/
>




From jpeterso at UNI-OSNABRUECK.DE  Tue Jan 26 10:02:38 2010
From: jpeterso at UNI-OSNABRUECK.DE (John Peterson)
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 10 11:02:38 +0100
Subject: Works on SA languages, 2007-2009, by scholars residing in Europe
In-Reply-To: <d1c0c7391001260155t26177d10s976f6a20ead21fe6@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <161227088301.23782.15574762615560234863.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

PLEASE FORWARD TO INTERESTED COLLEAGUES!!!

Dear all,

I am currently in the process of compiling the commentated bibliography on
studies on South Asian languages by scholars residing in Europe for the
years 2007-2009 for the Annual Review of South Asian Languages and
Linguistics (other regions will be covered by other authors).

Although such a bibliography will never - and probably can never - be
exhaustive, I would nevertheless like to take this opportunity to ask
those members of this list who reside/work in Europe and who have
published works on these languages between 2007-2009 to please inform me
of their work so that I can incorporate this information into the upcoming
bibliography and make it more representative.

I would therefore be grateful if you could let me know of your own work
(or that of your colleagues) on any aspect of South Asian languages of the
past three years. This includes - but is not restricted to! - the
following areas:

- grammars
- phonology
- historical linguistics
- traditional grammatical studies
- lexicography
- sociolinguistic aspects
- morphosyntactic studies
- computational linguistics
- (machine) translation
- writing systems / literacy studies
- linguistic convergences / language areas
- and much, much more!

The only requirement is that the work be *primarily* linguistic in nature,
e.g., not a translation of a text.

It would also be great if you could send me electronic versions of these
if you have them (which I of course will NOT distribute further!).

I look forward to hearing from you!

Best,
John

-- 
"Stability in language is synonymous with rigor mortis."
(Ernest Weekley, 1865-1954)

John Peterson
Institut f?r Linguistik
Universit?t Leipzig
Beethovenstra?e 15
D-04107 Leipzig
Germany

Phone: (+49) (0)341 97-37643
Fax:   (+49) (0)341 97-37609

http://www.SouthAsiaBibliography.de/




From lubint at WLU.EDU  Tue Jan 26 16:03:25 2010
From: lubint at WLU.EDU (Lubin, Tim)
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 10 11:03:25 -0500
Subject: BitComet as (simpler?) alternative to wget
In-Reply-To: <d1c0c7391001260744l4eacc32dk67fcd03ea8ca7bfb@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <161227088312.23782.7508327023395815110.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

We Windows-using dinosaurs need to muddle along as best we can.
I know it's like eating soup with a fork.

________________________________________
From: Indology [INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Dominik Wujastyk [wujastyk at GMAIL.COM]
Sent: Tuesday, January 26, 2010 10:44 AM
To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk
Subject: Re: BitComet as (simpler?) alternative to wget

That's a good wheeze for people who use Windows.
...




From dominic.goodall at GMAIL.COM  Tue Jan 26 07:06:55 2010
From: dominic.goodall at GMAIL.COM (Dominic Goodall)
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 10 12:36:55 +0530
Subject: more on N=?UTF-8?Q?=C4=81gar=C4=AB?=
In-Reply-To: <159679.99850.qm@web8602.mail.in.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <161227088295.23782.3735853221797584663.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Ah yes, I forgot to include this information.  The script of the early  
manuscript is what some today now call "Early Nepalese 'Licchavi'  
script". You can see an image of a couple of folios of a manuscript in  
a similar script, dated to 810 AD, in volume 1 of the Skandapur??a,  
just before the Prolegomena.

The Skandapur??a
Volume I Adhy?yas 1?25
Critically Edited with Prolegomena and English Synopsis by
R. Adraensen, H.T. Bakker, H. Isaacson
Groningen: Egbert Forsten, 1998.


Dominic Goodall


On 23 Jan 2010, at 12:55, Dipak Bhattacharya wrote:

> Dear Dr. Goodall,
> The infoprmation on the Nerpalese manuscript is very interesting.  
> Could you kindly inform about the script used in the manuscript  
> itself?
> Best wishes
>  Sincerely
> D.Bhattacharya
> --- On Sat, 23/1/10, Dominic Goodall <dominic.goodall at GMAIL.COM>  
> wrote:
>
> From: Dominic Goodall <dominic.goodall at GMAIL.COM>
> Subject: more on N?gar?
> To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk
> Date: Saturday, 23 January, 2010, 9:46 AM
>
> A note to add to the interesting exchanges about script-use and  
> script names.
>
> There is a passage in the ?ivadharmottara that appears to recommend  
> the copying of ?aiva literature using Nandin?gar? letters. This  
> has hitherto been assumed (in an article by R.C. Hazra and, more  
> recently, by Paolo Magnone) to be a reference to the South Indian  
> script now known as Nandin?gar?, which reached its developed form  
> in the Vijayanagara period.
>
> m?tr?nusv?rasa?yogahrasvad?rgh?dilak?itai?|
> nandin?garakair var?air lekhayec chivapustakam|| 2.40||
>
> But a Nepalese palm-leaf manuscript transmitting the ?ivadharmottara  
> has come to light that appears to have been written at the end of  
> the C8th or in the C9th.  The passage in question is to be found in  
> the bottom line of the bottom folio of exposure 40 of NGMPP A 12/3.   
> (The 3rd p?da of the verse there reads nad?n?garakair  
> var??air, but we may perhaps be justified in taking this to be a  
> copying error.)
>
> Nandin?gar?, therefore, is not just the name of a Southern script  
> of the Vijayanagara period; it is attested much earlier as a label  
> for a different style of lettering.  Furthermore, I think that we  
> can assume that the script in question was a Northern one from the  
> way the lettering is described in the previous verse.
>
> caturasrai? sama??r?air n?tisth?lair na v? k??ai?|
> samp?r??vayavai? snigdhair n?tivicchinnasa?hatai?|| 2.39||
>
> Most of these qualifications could probably be interpreted to  
> describe almost any sort of characters, but it seems to me that the  
> instruction that they should be neither too thick nor too thin  
> (n?tisth?lair na v? k??ai?) narrows the range of  
> possibilities.  For this, it seems to me, is very unlikely to have  
> been a formulation chosen if the author had been thinking of a  
> scribal tradition in which letters are incised into palm-leaves,  
> such as we find in the Southern, Dravidian-speaking areas and along  
> much of the Eastern littoral.
>
> Dominic Goodall
>
> The INTERNET now has a personality. YOURS! See your Yahoo! Homepage.




From wujastyk at GMAIL.COM  Tue Jan 26 15:44:26 2010
From: wujastyk at GMAIL.COM (Dominik Wujastyk)
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 10 16:44:26 +0100
Subject: BitComet as (simpler?) alternative to wget
In-Reply-To: <E9E6EABDBD59D84AB47B4A12E39AE11DF1627AA8@MEXMBA.ad.wlu.edu>
Message-ID: <161227088310.23782.891753992694885249.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

That's a good wheeze for people who use Windows.

Thanks,
Dominik

2010/1/26 Lubin, Tim <lubint at wlu.edu>

> One can use a free batch downloader called BitComet to download DLI books
> in one go -- no bash scripts necessary.
>
> Once the program is installed, open it, press Ctrl+B for the batch download
> dialogue box, and paste the entire URL of the first page in the upper field.
>  One way to get this URL is to open the book in the DLI website's reader
> interface, which will produce a URL like this:
>
>
> http://www.new.dli.ernet.in/scripts/FullindexDefault.htm?path1=/rawdataupload1/upload/0132/045&first=1&last=268&barcode=99999990133383
> \
> Then remove "FullindexDefault.htm?path1=/" and the whole string beginning
> with the first &, and append: PTIFF/00000001.tif
>
> to produce:
>
>
> http://www.new.dli.ernet.in/rawdataupload1/upload/0132/045/PTIFF/00000001.tif
>
> Then in the second field of the batch download dialogue box, insert this
> same URL, but replace the 00000001 with the number of the last page preceded
> by enough 0's to make eight digits.  The last page number can be found in
> the original URL after the string "&last=".  In the example above, this will
> produce:
>
>
> http://www.new.dli.ernet.in/rawdataupload1/upload/0132/045/PTIFF/00000268.tif
>
> Then click ADD and DOWNLOAD NOW.
>
> The tifs can then be combined in Acrobat into a single PDF.
>
> Tim
>
>
> ________________________________________
> From: Indology [INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Dominik Wujastyk [
> ucgadkw at UCL.AC.UK]
> Sent: Thursday, January 14, 2010 6:29 AM
> To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk
> Subject: wget (was: Re: Abhandlungen der K?nigliche n Akademie der
>  Wissensch aften zu Berli)
>
> Birgit is quite right about the value of wget.  It's an amazing little
> tool.  I use it routinely to get books from the Digital Library of India,
> where texts are presented only as individual pages.
>
> Until about a year ago, one could use the "-r" recursion setting of wget
> to fetch a whole directory-full of files in one go.  Then the DLI disabled
> that feature.  So now one has to issue a wget command for each page.
> But it's easy to do with a small bash script like this:
>
> ---------- cut here -----------
> #!/bin/sh
>
> # fetch Kapadia_Desc.Cat.Govt.Colls.MSS.BORI-Jaina
> # Literature and Philosophy XIX.1 Svetambara Works_1957
>
> for i in {00000001..397..1}
>        do
>                wget
> http://www.new.dli.ernet.in/data/upload/0048/903/PTIFF/$i.tif
>        done
> ---------- cut here -----------
>
> The magic number "371" is the number of pages in the book, which DLI tells
> you.  In Firefox, you can find out the directory in which a book's TIFF
> files live by loading a page of the book and then hitting Tools/Page Info
> and selecting "media".
>
> Bash is the default shell in Linux; it's also available to Windows users
> by installing the excellent Cygwin.
>
> Best,
> Dominik
>
>
>
> On Tue, 12 Jan 2010, Birgit Kellner wrote:
>
> > Jonathan Silk wrote:
> > > I have a feeling I may be an idiot (well, I'm sure in other respects,
> but in
> > > this case...): I learn from Indologica that we can find online the
> > > *Abhandlungen
> > > der K?niglichen Akademie der Wissenschaften zu Berlin. *
> > >
> > > When I go, however, for example to
> > >
> http://bibliothek.bbaw.de/bibliothek-digital/digitalequellen/schriften/anzeige/index_html?band=07-abh/1844&seite:int=711
> ,
> > > I can only get one page at a time; is there not a way to download an
> entire
> > > article?
> > >
> > > Thanks for your advice!  Jonathan
> > >
> > >
> > The interface unfortunately doesn't offer the possibility to download
> > several pages at once (as a PDF, for instance), no.
> >
> > There is a workaround, but it's a bit time-consuming:
> >
> > 1.) Click on a page image with the desired size ("large", for instance).
> > You see the JPG file and get a link like this in the browser's URL line:
> >
> >
> http://bibliothek.bbaw.de/thumbnail?band=07-abh/1844&aufloesung:int=2&img=DAS_jpg/07-abh/1844/jpg-1000/00000002.jpg&seite:int=2
> >
> > This means that the image file is stored in this directory:
> >
> > http://bibliothek.bbaw.de/DAS_jpg/07-abh/1844/jpg-1000/
> >
> > 2.) If you have the wonderful little tool wget installed, run
> >
> > wget -r http://bibliothek.bbaw.de/DAS_jpg/07-abh/1844/jpg-1000/
> >
> > from the command line.
> >
> > This gets you all images for the volume in question to a local folder.
> > You can then create a PDF file with these images (even run OCR on them
> > before), with, for instance Adobe Acrobat Pro (on Windows); I gather on
> > a recent Mac OS, there should already be tools available in the
> > operating system for the job.
> >
> > I trust the real geeks on the list can provide further advice :-)
> >
> > Best,
> >
> > b
> >
>
> --
> --
> After nearly 25 years, I'm phasing out this UCL email account.
> Please switch over to using the email address wujastyk at gmail.com
>
> !SIG:4b4f0048141301638493625!




From ucgadkw at UCL.AC.UK  Wed Jan 27 09:51:51 2010
From: ucgadkw at UCL.AC.UK (Dominik Wujastyk)
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 10 09:51:51 +0000
Subject: BitComet as (simpler?) alternative to wget
In-Reply-To: <E9E6EABDBD59D84AB47B4A12E39AE11DF1627AAA@MEXMBA.ad.wlu.edu>
Message-ID: <161227088315.23782.11787017240268312174.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

:-)

On Tue, 26 Jan 2010, Lubin, Tim wrote:

> We Windows-using dinosaurs need to muddle along as best we can.
> I know it's like eating soup with a fork.
>
> ________________________________________
> From: Indology [INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Dominik Wujastyk [wujastyk at GMAIL.COM]
> Sent: Tuesday, January 26, 2010 10:44 AM
> To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk
> Subject: Re: BitComet as (simpler?) alternative to wget
>
> That's a good wheeze for people who use Windows.
> ...

-- 
After nearly 25 years, I'm phasing out this UCL email account.
Please switch over to using the email address wujastyk at gmail.com




From klaus.karttunen at HELSINKI.FI  Wed Jan 27 11:58:39 2010
From: klaus.karttunen at HELSINKI.FI (Klaus Karttunen)
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 10 13:58:39 +0200
Subject: Depictions of children in pre-modern Indian art
In-Reply-To: <d1c0c7391001230950q3c6862fah7572c3bfc9156e7e@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <161227088318.23782.15967273498554771282.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Dear Dominik and others,
I have only now time to check what I have under the heading "Children" in my collection of references. Here's the result:

CHAMPION, C. & R. GARCIA: Litt?rature orale villageoise de l'Inde du nord: chants et rites de l'enfance des pays d'Aoudh et bhojpuri. 330 p. P.E.F.E.O. 153. P. 1989. 
DESHPANDE, G. A. Kamalabhai: The Child in Ancient India. 15+227 p. Poona 1936 (diss. Prague 1931, mainly based on the Dharma- and G?hyas?tras). Also E. Waldschmidt, OLZ 40, 1937, 550-552.
KATRE, Sumitra Mangesh: ?On some words for ?child? in Indo-Aryan?, ABORI 23, 1942, 242-249 (OIA to NIA).
LOMMEL, Hermann: ?Vedica und Avestica II. Mutter und Kind bei Mensch und Tier in einigen vedischen Ver?gleichen?, ZII 8, 1931, 274-280.
ROY, Sarat Chandra: ?Birth and Childhood Ceremonies amongst the Oraons?, JBORS 1:1, 1915, ??-??.
------            ?Birth, childhood and puberty ceremonies among the Birhors?, JBORS 4:2, 1918, ??-??.
SHARMA, Arvind: ?Attitudes towards sonship in classical Hinduism and Theravada Buddhism: a comparison?, JOIB 24, 1975, 338-342.
SHASTRI, Veneemadhava: ?Child in Prakrit Poems?, JOIB 47:1-2, 1997 (2000), 101-112 (in dramas and lyric anthologies).
STERNBACH, Ludwik: ?Juridical Studies in Ancient Indian Law: 8. Infanticide and Exposure of New-born Children?, Poona Or. 13:1-2, 1948, 79-87.
THIEME, Paul: "?ber einige Benennungen des Nachkommen", KZ 66, 1939, 130-144.
------            "Weiteres zum indischen Adoptionsritual", KZ 67, 1942, 289 (cf. 1939, 134).
VERPOORTEN, Jean-Marie: ?L?enfant dans la litt?rature rituelle v?dique (Br?hma?a)?, L?enfant dans les civilisations orientales. Acta Orientalia Belgica 2. Leuven 1980, ??-??.

Best,

Klaus Karttunen
Professor of South Asian and Indoeuropean Studies
Institute for Asian and African Studies
PL 59 (Unioninkatu 38 B)
00014 University of Helsinki, FINLAND
Tel +358-(0)9-191 22674
Fax +358-(0)9-191 22094
Klaus.Karttunen at helsinki.fi



On Jan 23, 2010, at 7:50 PM, Dominik Wujastyk wrote:

> Dear Colleagues,
> 
> Can you point me to a scholarly discussion of this topic?  What are the
> earliest depictions of children in S. Asian art?  What deductions can be
> made about the idea of the child from any such images?  What I'm thinking
> about is the S. A. evidence that might inform a discussion of the "invention
> of childhood".
> 
> Best,
> Dominik
> 




From arlogriffiths at HOTMAIL.COM  Thu Jan 28 03:24:50 2010
From: arlogriffiths at HOTMAIL.COM (Arlo Griffiths)
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 10 03:24:50 +0000
Subject: elements of curse formulae
Message-ID: <161227088320.23782.13745919903891949615.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Dear colleagues,
The fragmentary socle of an intact Sanskrit?stela inscription (dated 700 "saka) recently discovered in the temple complex of Hoa Lai in Ninh Thuan province, Southern Vietnam, is itself inscribed with a slightly later group of stanzas, dated to 760 "saka. Only two out of four faces of the socle are left, and I am trying to determine how many verse-quarters would have stood on the lost faces. For this purpose, it would be very helpful if any exact parallels could be discovered from epigraphical or literary Sanskrit for the following two indravajraa paadas:
ye sa.mhari.syanty adhamaa.h k.rtaghnaa.hand
tasmaat pit.rbhyaa.m narakaadhamaayaam
I am hoping that these are not original compositions for the inscription in question, but belong to the large mass of curse formulae that Sanskrit inscriptions make use of. If so, I might be able to determine how to place them in relation to each other, and to a third element, ... sty aviicyaa.m (apparently the end of another indravajraa paada), whose position I can also not determine. I haven't myself been able to find these elements elsewhere. Can anybody help?
Thank you.
Arlo Griffiths (EFEO, Jakarta)
 		 	   		  
_________________________________________________________________
New Windows 7: Find the right PC for you. Learn more.
http://windows.microsoft.com/shop




From axel.michaels at YAHOO.DE  Thu Jan 28 07:51:54 2010
From: axel.michaels at YAHOO.DE (Axel Michaels)
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 10 07:51:54 +0000
Subject: Summer Schools in Sanskrit and Nepali /Sarasvati Sanskrit Award
Message-ID: <161227088322.23782.5876069757016220024.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

like in the past decade, the Department of Classical 
Dear Colleagues,

like in the past decade, the Department of Classical Indology at the South Asia Institute in Heidelberg is organising the
Summer School in Spoken Sanskrit and Nepali Intensive Course
this year from 2nd to 27th August, 2010.

More information and details can be accessed by following the link below:
http://www.sai.uni-heidelberg.de/abt/IND/studium/summerschool.php

It is our pleasure to announce that applications are also invited for the second Saraswati Sanskrit Prize 2010, instituted by the Indian Council for Cultural Relations (ICCR), the Government of India and the Department of Classical Indology, South Asia Institute, Heidelberg.
More Information at:  http://www.sai.uni-heidelberg.de/abt/IND/aktuelles/sarasvati/sarasvati.php

Please encourage your students or colleagues to participate in the above events.

Best greetings
Axel Michaels ------------------------------
Prof. Dr. Axel Michaels
Sprecher des SFB 619 ("Ritualdynamik"), Kodirektor des Exzellenzclusters "Asia and Europe in a Global Context"

Universit?t Heidelberg, S?dasien-Institut, Im Neuenheimer Feld 330, D-69120 Heidelberg
Tel. +49-6221-548917 / Fax +49-6221-546338
http://www.sai.uni-heidelberg.de/abt/IND/index.html -- http://www.asia-europe.uni-heidelberg.de/ -- www.ritualdynamik.uni-hd.de -- Axel.Michaels at urz.uni-heidelberg.de -- michaels at asia-europe.uni-heidelberg.de





From vjroebuck at MACUNLIMITED.NET  Fri Jan 29 06:27:45 2010
From: vjroebuck at MACUNLIMITED.NET (Valerie J Roebuck)
Date: Fri, 29 Jan 10 06:27:45 +0000
Subject: Workshops on Logic in India and the West
Message-ID: <161227088324.23782.7131628999245866088.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

I have been asked to forward information about a 
workshop likely to be of interest to many on the 
List. The email contact is <mhgorisse at gmail.com>. 
Apologies for cross-posting.

Valerie J Roebuck

Dialogues and Games: Historical Roots and Contemporary Models.
Monday, the 8th and Tuesday, the 9th February
University of Lille 3, France


This workshop is completely organized by the ILLC 
(University of Amsterdam) as part of the 
activities of the prgram EUROCORES 
<http://www.esf.org/index.php?id=3241>LOGICCC and 
of the informal working group 
<http://www.illc.uva.nl/medlogic/DDAHL/index.html>DDAHL. 
They are hosted in Lille by STL.

Studies in the history of logic have shown that 
the medieval traditions, both in western Europe 
and in India, have many distinctive dialogical 
and epistemological characteristics. As a result, 
they have much more in common with each other 
than they do mathematical logic of the 1950's. 
Recently, it has become apparent that these 
shared characteristics can be fruitfully modeled 
in the context of modern developments in logic, 
which are dynamic and dialogical in flavor.

We believe that investigating the common 
properties of these two historical approaches can 
advance our understanding of these philosophical 
and historical traditions with the help of recent 
technical advances in dialogical and game 
semantics and dialogue games. The purpose of this 
workshop is to bring together researchers from 
both the philosophical and technical traditions 
to provide a spring-board for collaboration and 
potential cross-discipline applications, allowing 
people working in both historical traditions, the 
Western and the Indian, to gain knowledge of 
current modeling techniques and those on the 
technical side access to new problems and 
theories to model.

The four fields that we intend to represent are:

- the dialogical tradition in logic in India 
(Claus Oetke and Marie-H?l?ne Gorisse)
- obligationes in medieval Western logic ( Aude Popek and Sara Uckelman)
- dialogical semantics and dialogue models (Luca 
Tranchini, Nicolas Maudet and Tero Tulenheimo)
- and games for dialogues and semantics (Daniele Porello and Pietro Galliani).

For further informations: 
<http://www.illc.uva.nl/medlogic/DDAHL/DiG.html>http://www.illc.uva.nl/medlogic/DDAHL/DiG.html
Wishing to meet you in Lille,
With best regards,

Marie-H?l?ne Gorisse
PhD-student in Jain Philosophy
Hosting this event
<http://stl.recherche.univ-lille3.fr/sitespersonnels/rahman/rahmanequipegorissefrancais.html>http://stl.recherche.univ-lille3.fr/sitespersonnels/rahman/rahmanequipegorissefrancais.html




From jpo at UTS.CC.UTEXAS.EDU  Fri Jan 29 13:00:31 2010
From: jpo at UTS.CC.UTEXAS.EDU (Patrick Olivelle)
Date: Fri, 29 Jan 10 07:00:31 -0600
Subject: 15th WSC January 2012
In-Reply-To: <eceac9c01001290421k519c04e8ve1dc42baad1485f4@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <161227088330.23782.16564898970966320919.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Hi Jan:

Thanks for the information. I was, however, 
surprised that no section dealing with 
Dharmasastra, Arthasastra etc. is among the 18. 
Is this a deliberate decision or did it simply 
fall between the cracks?

Patrick


>http://www.sanskrit.nic.in/wsc15.pdf
>
><http://www.sanskrit.nic.in/wsc15.pdf>
>
>--
>Prof. Dr. Jan E.M. Houben,
>Directeur d Etudes ? Sources et Histoire de la Tradition Sanskrite ?
>Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes, SHP,
>A la Sorbonne,45-47, rue des Ecoles,
>75005 Paris -- France.
>JEMHouben at gmail.com




From jpo at UTS.CC.UTEXAS.EDU  Fri Jan 29 13:01:24 2010
From: jpo at UTS.CC.UTEXAS.EDU (Patrick Olivelle)
Date: Fri, 29 Jan 10 07:01:24 -0600
Subject: 15th WSC January 2012
Message-ID: <161227088333.23782.12966069807865826780.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Sorry, everybody. I meant to send the query to Jan only.

Patrick


Hi Jan:

Thanks for the information. I was, however, 
surprised that no section dealing with 
Dharmasastra, Arthasastra etc. is among the 18. 
Is this a deliberate decision or did it simply 
fall between the cracks?

Patrick


>http://www.sanskrit.nic.in/wsc15.pdf
>
><http://www.sanskrit.nic.in/wsc15.pdf>
>
>--
>Prof. Dr. Jan E.M. Houben,
>Directeur d Etudes ? Sources et Histoire de la Tradition Sanskrite ?
>Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes, SHP,
>A la Sorbonne,45-47, rue des Ecoles,
>75005 Paris -- France.
>JEMHouben at gmail.com




From jemhouben at GMAIL.COM  Fri Jan 29 12:21:12 2010
From: jemhouben at GMAIL.COM (Jan E.M. Houben)
Date: Fri, 29 Jan 10 13:21:12 +0100
Subject: 15th WSC January 2012
Message-ID: <161227088326.23782.12016415663897412719.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

http://www.sanskrit.nic.in/wsc15.pdf

<http://www.sanskrit.nic.in/wsc15.pdf>

-- 
Prof. Dr. Jan E.M. Houben,
Directeur d Etudes ? Sources et Histoire de la Tradition Sanskrite ?
Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes, SHP,
A la Sorbonne,45-47, rue des Ecoles,
75005 Paris -- France.
JEMHouben at gmail.com




From jemhouben at GMAIL.COM  Fri Jan 29 12:52:51 2010
From: jemhouben at GMAIL.COM (Jan E.M. Houben)
Date: Fri, 29 Jan 10 13:52:51 +0100
Subject: 4i-SCLS 12.12.2010
Message-ID: <161227088328.23782.14144555208733970214.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Dear indologist



The 4th International International Sanskrit Computational Linguistics
Symposium (4i-SCLS) will take place at the Jawaharlal Nehru University, New
Delhi, India from 10-12 December, 2010. You are requested to advertise this
at your institutes and circulate it to other insterested scholars. The
details can be found at the seminar website
http://sanskrit.jnu.ac.in/conf/4iscls/index.jsp




Dr. Girish Nath Jha
Associate Professor, Computational Linguistics
Special Center for Sanskrit Studies,
J.N.U., New Delhi - 110067
http://www.jnu.ac.in/faculty/gnjha
http://sanskrit.jnu.ac.in
ph.26741308 (o)

-




From tcoleman at COLORADOCOLLEGE.EDU  Fri Jan 29 23:28:35 2010
From: tcoleman at COLORADOCOLLEGE.EDU (Tracy Coleman)
Date: Fri, 29 Jan 10 16:28:35 -0700
Subject: Sanskrit pop singer in China
Message-ID: <161227088335.23782.10936405915750904561.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

I don't recall that this interesting news has reached Indology yet:

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/world/china/China-claims-to-have-1st-po
p-singer-in-Sanskrit-may-present-her-during-World-Expo/articleshow/5499452
.cms

Cheers to All,
Tracy




From tcoleman at COLORADOCOLLEGE.EDU  Fri Jan 29 23:32:48 2010
From: tcoleman at COLORADOCOLLEGE.EDU (Tracy Coleman)
Date: Fri, 29 Jan 10 16:32:48 -0700
Subject: Sanskrit pop singer in China
Message-ID: <161227088337.23782.510004089324507936.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Let me try the link again.  But you may have to paste it in fully:


http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/world/china/China-claims-to-have-1st-po
p-singer-in-Sanskrit-may-present-her-during-World-Expo/articleshow/5499452
.cms



-----Original Message-----
From: Indology on behalf of Tracy Coleman
Sent: Fri 1/29/2010 4:28 PM
To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk
Subject: Re: Sanskrit pop singer in China
 
I don't recall that this interesting news has reached Indology yet:

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/world/china/China-claims-to-have-1st-po
p-singer-in-Sanskrit-may-present-her-during-World-Expo/articleshow/5499452
.cms

Cheers to All,
Tracy




From athr at LOC.GOV  Sat Jan 30 01:06:47 2010
From: athr at LOC.GOV (Allen W Thrasher)
Date: Fri, 29 Jan 10 20:06:47 -0500
Subject: Sanskrit pop singer in China
Message-ID: <161227088339.23782.4814149108298096501.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

I used Tinyurl to create this shorter link:  http://preview.tinyurl.com/skt-popsinger.

Allen


>>> Tracy Coleman <tcoleman at COLORADOCOLLEGE.EDU> 1/29/2010 6:28:35 PM >>>

I don't recall that this interesting news has reached Indology yet:

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/world/china/China-claims-to-have-1st-po
p-singer-in-Sanskrit-may-present-her-during-World-Expo/articleshow/5499452
.cms

Cheers to All,
Tracy




From rospatt at BERKELEY.EDU  Sat Jan 30 17:00:40 2010
From: rospatt at BERKELEY.EDU (Alexander von Rospatt)
Date: Sat, 30 Jan 10 09:00:40 -0800
Subject: Berkeley Summer Program: Words of Wisdom: Toward a Western              Terminology for Buddhist Texts
Message-ID: <161227088347.23782.67909219909020239.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Dear Colleagues,

please take note of the below announcement and bring it to the attention of potentially interested students.


Many thanks,

Alexander von Rospatt




Mangalam Research Center for Buddhist Languages
Center for Buddhist Studies, University of California
Ho Center for Buddhist Studies, Stanford University
 
Summer Program: Words of Wisdom: Toward a Western Terminology for Buddhist Texts
Berkeley, CA, USA. June 14-July 2, 2010
Core Faculty: Luis Gomez, Michael Hahn
Associate Faculty: Paul Harrison, Alexander von Rospatt, Carmen Dragonetti, Fernando Tola
 
Putting the Dharma into the words of a new culture is a task that has traditionally unfolded over several generations. In the West, where the languages of educated discourse are sophisticated and rich with layers of meaning, the challenges of being able to convey the Buddhist teachings as faithfully as possible are especially daunting.
This intensive three-week program, intended primarily for graduate students in Buddhism, Indology, or allied fields, is a small step toward a clear and consistent terminology or (more modestly) developing skills and strategies for finding the best translation equivalents in contemporary English.
The text for the program is the Vimalak?rtinirde?a-s?tra. We will read the Sanskrit together with the Tibetan and Chinese translations. This close reading will address problems of interpretation, as well as the technical and stylistic challenges faced by the translator of classical Buddhist texts. Students should have facility in Sanskrit; knowledge of Tibetan or Chinese will be helpful.
Format and Facilities?Guided by distinguished faculty, students will meet 5 hours a day, five days a week to work with the challenges posed by the text. Sessions will be held from 9:30 am ? 12:30 pm and 3:30 pm ? 5:30 pm. Meals are provided, and housing is an easy walk. Students will have access to the libraries of the Mangalam Research Center and the University of California at Berkeley (a 10-minute walk). Rapid Transit to San Francisco is half-a-block away.
Focus?The focus will be on key terms of the Vimalak?rtinirde?a-s?tra in the context of the profound Mahayana vision it sets forth. We will examine vocabulary choices in  both source and target languages, sensitive to subtle shifts in meaning between languages with different philosophical underpinnings. Among the topics to be explored and skills to be honed:
?  Sanskrit roots, etymology, and the relation of Buddhist Sanskrit to other forms of Sanskrit
?  Issues of context and intertexuality.
?  comparison with the Tibetan and Chinese, with reference to commentaries.
?  stylistic choices and terminology in existing translations in both canonical and modern languages
?  general issues in the theory and practice of translation as they arise in rendering a classic Buddh ist text into a modern idiom.
Costs: Tuition: $1,200 (includes lunch daily). Food and lodging: $1,350. Total cost: $2,550.
 
Applications?The program is intended for advanced graduate students, but applications from all qualified candidates will be considered. Please submit an application by March 15, 2010 to summerprograms at mangalamresearch.org. Include a short statement of purpose, a description of language skills and how acquired, and a 1?2 paragraph letter of endorsement from your principal adviser. Students completing the program will receive a formal letter from the Buddhist Studies program of the University of California, Berkeley, certifying that the course corresponds to a semester long graduate seminar of fifteen weeks with five hours of instruction per week."

 Maximum number of participants is 15. Applicants will be notified by April 10, 2010.




From kauzeya at GMAIL.COM  Sat Jan 30 10:07:15 2010
From: kauzeya at GMAIL.COM (Jonathan Silk)
Date: Sat, 30 Jan 10 11:07:15 +0100
Subject: Sanskrit pop singer in China
In-Reply-To: <20100129T200647Z_AE4F00170000@loc.gov>
Message-ID: <161227088341.23782.2550107556787470753.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Indeed, just as the website says, Sanskrit is emblematic of Chinese culture.
Or, uh, wait a second here...

On Sat, Jan 30, 2010 at 2:06 AM, Allen W Thrasher <athr at loc.gov> wrote:

> I used Tinyurl to create this shorter link:
> http://preview.tinyurl.com/skt-popsinger.
>
> Allen
>
>
> >>> Tracy Coleman <tcoleman at COLORADOCOLLEGE.EDU> 1/29/2010 6:28:35 PM >>>
>
> I don't recall that this interesting news has reached Indology yet:
>
> http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/world/china/China-claims-to-have-1st-po
> p-singer-in-Sanskrit-may-present-her-during-World-Expo/articleshow/5499452<http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/world/china/China-claims-to-have-1st-po%0Ap-singer-in-Sanskrit-may-present-her-during-World-Expo/articleshow/5499452>
> .cms
>
> Cheers to All,
> Tracy
>



-- 
J. Silk
Instituut Kern / Universiteit Leiden
Postbus 9515
2300 RA Leiden
Netherlands




From pwyzlic at UNI-BONN.DE  Sat Jan 30 14:09:47 2010
From: pwyzlic at UNI-BONN.DE (Peter Wyzlic)
Date: Sat, 30 Jan 10 15:09:47 +0100
Subject: Sanskrit pop singer in China
In-Reply-To: <c4c5a5431001300207q488460b6u59426fc9f2477ed0@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <161227088343.23782.5098440930172300802.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

>> http://preview.tinyurl.com/skt-popsinger.


Well, concerning the claim China has the first Sanskrit popsinger, America came first, indeed. There exists a music group called "Shanti Shanti" who is claimed to be the "first" Sanskrit rock band. See the homepage: <http://www.shantishanti.com/home.html>

Enjoy
Peter Wyzlic
--
Institut f?r Orient- und Asienwissenschaften
Abteilung f?r Indologie
Universit?t Bonn
Regina-Pacis-Weg 7
53113 Bonn




From kauzeya at GMAIL.COM  Sat Jan 30 14:48:03 2010
From: kauzeya at GMAIL.COM (Jonathan Silk)
Date: Sat, 30 Jan 10 15:48:03 +0100
Subject: Sanskrit pop singer in China
In-Reply-To: <F43B4149-6128-4DBA-B61E-8886A3A48F44@uni-bonn.de>
Message-ID: <161227088345.23782.15703531885697593050.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Just as good as the Chinese website, if not better! I've learned alot. For
instance:

*What is Sanskrit?
**Sanskrit is an ancient spiritual language from India.  It originated as
part the Indus Valley Civilization and is said to be approximately 5,000
years old.  Sanskrit is governed by the proper pronunciation of pure tones
in a perfectly rhythmical way to create a theraputic feeling for the
listener and the presenter.

*So, the IVC problem is solved, that's good to know. And we should all feel
therapeudic, apparently, which is fantastic! But wait, it gets better!

The story begins when sisters, Andrea and Sara, just 9 and 7 years old, were
spontaneously able to chant, read and write Sanskrit. This is something
traditionally only done by Indian Male pundits.


And you see, stupid me, I thought that EVEN MALES had to study a little
bit.  Now I know why my Sanskrit is so much worse than that of Indian Male
pundits--they are able to do it all spontaneously, you see.

No wonder the politicians don't want to fund us anymore--why pay someone to
teach something which should come naturally?

On Sat, Jan 30, 2010 at 3:09 PM, Peter Wyzlic <pwyzlic at uni-bonn.de> wrote:

> >> http://preview.tinyurl.com/skt-popsinger.
>
>
> Well, concerning the claim China has the first Sanskrit popsinger, America
> came first, indeed. There exists a music group called "Shanti Shanti" who is
> claimed to be the "first" Sanskrit rock band. See the homepage: <
> http://www.shantishanti.com/home.html>
>
> Enjoy
> Peter Wyzlic
> --
> Institut f?r Orient- und Asienwissenschaften
> Abteilung f?r Indologie
> Universit?t Bonn
> Regina-Pacis-Weg 7
> 53113 Bonn
>



-- 
J. Silk
Instituut Kern / Universiteit Leiden
Postbus 9515
2300 RA Leiden
Netherlands




From james.hartzell at GMAIL.COM  Sun Jan 31 08:26:03 2010
From: james.hartzell at GMAIL.COM (James Hartzell)
Date: Sun, 31 Jan 10 10:26:03 +0200
Subject: sa.wikipedia.org
Message-ID: <161227088349.23782.3896944723031899948.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Not sure whether colleagues are conversant with this Sanskrit Wikipedia link
(sa.wikipedia.org), and what the consensus opinion is;  from a very brief
look it appears only short articles for some entries, some partly in Hindi.
It might be a good venue for centralizing links for Sanskrit digital
documents, audio recordings, videos, university websites, etc.

It was started last week by a team of Samskrita Bharati volunteers in
Bangalore
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Academy/India/2010/Bangalore1

additionally, we might think of starting some pages on scholarpedia.org?

James Hartzell
University of Trento
Rovereto, Italy