Turtles (and elephants) all the way down?

[Tenzin Bob Thurman]

There's a famous golden turtle in Tibetan astrology and divination. 
Manjushri out of his concern for the Chinese, who are interested in 
time, astronomy, and divination, emanates himself as a golden turtle, 
then slays hisemanates turtle self and his shell comes up with the eight 
trigrams [same as those of the I Ching] for divination, and perhaps 
other geometrical patterns. In the same series of actions, he creates 
his earthly pure land at Wu Tai Shan in Shansi province
BobT

John C. Huntington wrote:
> In Buddhist Art, especially early, elephants play a major role in 
> "supporting" structural establishments Buddhist worlds, presumably 
> paradises, although the early literature does not mention that as part 
> of of the Buddhist architectural considerations. Pitalkhora and Karle 
> in the western caves have elephant plinths, and the Maha-stupa at 
> Anuradhapura has a spectacular one all around it. In all cases the 
> elephants face the viewer and support the structure on their backs.
>
> In later Buddhist art, (ca, 11th century and on) in India, Nepal and 
> Tibet the elephant commonly figures as either throne supports under 
> the seat of a Buddhist figure (often a Buddha) or as part of the side 
> throne-back supports, in which they often support other, often mythic, 
> animals.  From the existence of these I would suggest that elephants 
> were an early (as early as we have sculpture of them) marker of the 
> division between the mundane and the attained worlds.
>
> As for turtles, offhand, I cannot think of a one in Buddhism. Maybe 
> somebody else knows of some.
>
> Cheers
>
> John 
>
>