From rajam at EARTHLINK.NET  Thu Oct  1 01:06:43 2009
From: rajam at EARTHLINK.NET (rajam)
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 09 18:06:43 -0700
Subject: Thanks! (Re: Need references for descriptions of Buddhist nuns in              literature )
In-Reply-To: <AD5FB08A-0079-46E5-B220-A792FDF14A22@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <161227087664.23782.17704073450066818529.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

My sincere thanks to everyone that sent me the references I needed!

The online version of Therigatha (http://www.accesstoinsight.org/ 
tipitaka/kn/thig/index.html) is amazing! It provided instant  
confirmation of what I've been wondering about for decades!

These references confirmed my thoughts about the demeanor of Buddhist  
nuns -- that they shaved their head, they did not wear any ornaments  
to adorn themselves, and so on.

Thanks and regards,
Rajam



On Sep 28, 2009, at 12:24 PM, rajam wrote:

> Dear All,
>
> I'm looking for any descriptions of Buddhist nuns in any earliest  
> Buddhist literature.
>
> Specifically, I'm interested in understanding whether our  
> literature reflected reality, and if so to what extent.
>
> In literature -- How are the Buddhist nuns described?
>
> In reality -- How were they officiated? What did they wear? Did  
> they wear any jewelry to adorn themselves? Did they shave their  
> head? What did they eat? Where did they live? Did they maintain  
> their ties with their kin? What did they do on a daily basis -- did  
> they go around and preach, and if so what did they do and  
> preach?, ... , so on and so forth.
>
> I would appreciate any informative posting on this list. Please  
> also feel free to contact me directly at: <rajam at earthlink.net>.
>
> Thanks and regards,
> Rajam




From axel.michaels at YAHOO.DE  Thu Oct  1 07:34:29 2009
From: axel.michaels at YAHOO.DE (Axel Michaels)
Date: Thu, 01 Oct 09 07:34:29 +0000
Subject: Star Wars in Sanskrit
Message-ID: <161227087666.23782.15911128660590534162.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Enjoy: Star Wars in Sanskrit: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IBd1kaLKoIg


Best greetingsAxel Michaels




From rmanring at INDIANA.EDU  Thu Oct  1 12:07:34 2009
From: rmanring at INDIANA.EDU (Manring, Rebecca)
Date: Thu, 01 Oct 09 08:07:34 -0400
Subject: Star Wars in Sanskrit
In-Reply-To: <152726.83723.qm@web27308.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <161227087668.23782.17926842056203481801.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

This youtube clip was the final project produced by students in the AIIS Sanskrit program in Pune a few years back; the voice of Darth Vader is that of Bryan Gutridge, one of my then-MA students here at Indiana University.

Rebecca J. Manring
Associate Professor
India Studies and Religious Studies
Indiana University-Bloomington

-----Original Message-----
From: Indology [mailto:INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Axel Michaels
Sent: Thursday, October 01, 2009 3:34 AM
To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk
Subject: Star Wars in Sanskrit

Enjoy: Star Wars in Sanskrit: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IBd1kaLKoIg


Best greetingsAxel Michaels




From jean-luc.chevillard at UNIV-PARIS-DIDEROT.FR  Thu Oct  1 14:44:10 2009
From: jean-luc.chevillard at UNIV-PARIS-DIDEROT.FR (Jean-Luc Chevillard)
Date: Thu, 01 Oct 09 16:44:10 +0200
Subject: Unicode-compliant Garamond font ?
In-Reply-To: <1232607970.3877.18.camel@proliant>
Message-ID: <161227087671.23782.910087816221467660.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Dear list members,

is there a Unicode-compliant Garamond font
available somewhere on the internet?
(or a Garamond look-alike?)

Thanks for your feedback

-- Jean-Luc Chevillard


Richard MAHONEY a ?crit :
> Dear Readers,
>
> John Smith's recently updated font collection will be of interest to
> some of you.
>
>
> -----Forwarded Message-----
> From: John Smith <jds10 at cam.ac.uk>
> To: Richard MAHONEY <r.mahoney at iconz.co.nz>
> Cc: John Smith <jds10 at cam.ac.uk>
> Subject: IndUni fonts
> Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2009 11:53:36 +0530
>
> [snip]
>
> I have recently created upgraded versions of my "IndUni" OpenType
> fonts. These are Unicode-compliant fonts that contain a comprehensive
> set of "Indological" characters, as well as all the European characters
> that scholars are likely to need. They are available as freeware, and
> include high-quality lookalikes for Times, Palatino, New Century
> Schoolbook, Helvetica and Courier. They are based on the freeware fonts
> so generously contributed by URW++ of Germany.
>
> The upgraded fonts now contain all the accented characters specified by
> MES-1, the smallest of the recognised Multilingual European Subsets of
> Unicode. They also contain numerous other accented forms that linguists
> tend to require (e.g. vowels with both macron and breve, vowels with
> both macron and tilde), all the accented characters needed for Pinyin,
> and a set of Cyrillic characters. This is, of course, in addition to
> all the characters known to be used in representing Indian languages in
> Roman script.
>
> As well as a greatly enhanced character set, the new versions of the
> fonts have had various small bugs fixed, and have been set up to work
> with both "composed" and "decomposed" forms of complex characters --
> e.g. the form for "a macron" will be used whether the document contains
> the one character U+0101 ("a macron") or the two characters U+0061
> ("a") + U+0304 ("macron"). Since there seems to be something of a shift
> in usage under way here, this is a major advantage.
>
> The fonts can be downloaded from http://bombay.indology.info/.
>
> John Smith
>
>
> John Smith
> jds10 at cam.ac.uk
> http://bombay.indology.info
>
>
>
>   




From gruenen at SUB.UNI-GOETTINGEN.DE  Thu Oct  1 16:47:23 2009
From: gruenen at SUB.UNI-GOETTINGEN.DE (Gruenendahl, Reinhold)
Date: Thu, 01 Oct 09 18:47:23 +0200
Subject: AW: Unicode-compliant Garamond font ?
Message-ID: <161227087673.23782.4492209849183207327.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

The key question seems to me whether the respective font covers  the Unicode
range "Latin Extended Additional" (with underdot characters etc.).
 
Look here for those that do:
 
http://www.alanwood.net/unicode/latin_extended_additional.html
 
The list contains "jGaramond" (of which I know nothing). For download and
additional information try here:
http://www.janthor.com/jGaramond/index.html
 
Good luck!
Reinhold Gr?nendahl
 
________________________________________________ 
 
Dr. Reinhold Gruenendahl
Niedersaechsische Staats- und Universitaetsbibliothek
Fachreferat sued- und suedostasiatische Philologien
(Dept. of Indology)
 
37070 Goettingen, Germany
Tel (+49) (0)5 51 / 39 52 83
 
gruenen at sub.uni-goettingen.de
 
FACH-INFORMATIONEN INDOLOGIE, GOETTINGEN:
http://www.sub.uni-goettingen.de/ebene_1/fiindolo/fiindolo.htm
In English:
http://www.sub.uni-goettingen.de/ebene_1/fiindolo/fiindole.htm
 
GRETIL - Goettingen Register of Electronic Texts in Indian Languages:
http://www.sub.uni-goettingen.de/ebene_1/fiindolo/gretil.htm
 
GRETIL e-library:
http://www.sub.uni-goettingen.de/ebene_1/fiindolo/gr_elib.htm
 

________________________________

Von: Indology im Auftrag von Jean-Luc Chevillard
Gesendet: Do 01.10.2009 16:44
An: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk
Betreff: Unicode-compliant Garamond font ?



Dear list members,

is there a Unicode-compliant Garamond font
available somewhere on the internet?
(or a Garamond look-alike?)

Thanks for your feedback

-- Jean-Luc Chevillard


Richard MAHONEY a ?crit :
> Dear Readers,
>
> John Smith's recently updated font collection will be of interest to
> some of you.
>
>
> -----Forwarded Message-----
> From: John Smith <jds10 at cam.ac.uk>
> To: Richard MAHONEY <r.mahoney at iconz.co.nz>
> Cc: John Smith <jds10 at cam.ac.uk>
> Subject: IndUni fonts
> Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2009 11:53:36 +0530
>
> [snip]
>
> I have recently created upgraded versions of my "IndUni" OpenType
> fonts. These are Unicode-compliant fonts that contain a comprehensive
> set of "Indological" characters, as well as all the European characters
> that scholars are likely to need. They are available as freeware, and
> include high-quality lookalikes for Times, Palatino, New Century
> Schoolbook, Helvetica and Courier. They are based on the freeware fonts
> so generously contributed by URW++ of Germany.
>
> The upgraded fonts now contain all the accented characters specified by
> MES-1, the smallest of the recognised Multilingual European Subsets of
> Unicode. They also contain numerous other accented forms that linguists
> tend to require (e.g. vowels with both macron and breve, vowels with
> both macron and tilde), all the accented characters needed for Pinyin,
> and a set of Cyrillic characters. This is, of course, in addition to
> all the characters known to be used in representing Indian languages in
> Roman script.
>
> As well as a greatly enhanced character set, the new versions of the
> fonts have had various small bugs fixed, and have been set up to work
> with both "composed" and "decomposed" forms of complex characters --
> e.g. the form for "a macron" will be used whether the document contains
> the one character U+0101 ("a macron") or the two characters U+0061
> ("a") + U+0304 ("macron"). Since there seems to be something of a shift
> in usage under way here, this is a major advantage.
>
> The fonts can be downloaded from http://bombay.indology.info/.
>
> John Smith
>
>
> John Smith
> jds10 at cam.ac.uk
> http://bombay.indology.info <http://bombay.indology.info/> 
>
>
>
>  




From jean-luc.chevillard at UNIV-PARIS-DIDEROT.FR  Thu Oct  1 18:23:56 2009
From: jean-luc.chevillard at UNIV-PARIS-DIDEROT.FR (Jean-Luc Chevillard)
Date: Thu, 01 Oct 09 20:23:56 +0200
Subject: Unicode-compliant Garamond font ?
In-Reply-To: <F35B506FEA4A95468F3D3DE79F1B77BB02A464AB@VS1.exc.top.gwdg.de>
Message-ID: <161227087675.23782.3396982773684412541.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Dear Reinhold Gruenendahl,

Thanks for your feed back!

I am indeed looking for a font covering the "Latin Extended Additional" 
range.

The page for "jGaramond" does not seem to be very encouraging
since the person in charge has written that he "consider[s] the font 
jGaramond to be deprecated."

The closest approximation to Garamond I have found for the time being
is a font called "Junicode", which is said to be "very similar in style 
to typefaces of the 18th century such as Caslon."
(See the Wikipedia entry <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Junicode>)

It is available from the following URL:
<http://junicode.sourceforge.net/>

For those interested in typography,
here is what TYPEDIA has to say:

"Junicode (a contraction of ?Junius-Unicode?) is an old-style font. The 
roman is based on early-18th century type used by the Clarendon Press; 
the italics and bold are designed to match. It contains Greek characters 
based on the Greek Double Pica cut by Alexander Wilson of Glasgow in the 
eighteenth century. Specifically, the type is based on that in George 
Hickes?s ?Linguarum Vett. Septentrionalium ? Thesaurus? (Oxford, 
1703-05), which was commissioned by Franciscus Junius.

(SEE: <http://typedia.com/explore/typeface/junicode>)

HOWEVER, since Claude Garamond (c.1480?1561) was active in the 16th century
(SEE <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Claude_Garamond>),
I am afraid Junicode will not be considered as completely adequate
by the person who incited me to start this search,
although the 18th century is closer to the 16th century as to the 21st :-)

Best wishes

-- Jean-Luc Chevillard (Paris)


Gruenendahl, Reinhold a ?crit :
> The key question seems to me whether the respective font covers  the Unicode
> range "Latin Extended Additional" (with underdot characters etc.).
>  
> Look here for those that do:
>  
> http://www.alanwood.net/unicode/latin_extended_additional.html
>  
> The list contains "jGaramond" (of which I know nothing). For download and
> additional information try here:
> http://www.janthor.com/jGaramond/index.html
>  
> Good luck!
> Reinhold Gr?nendahl
>  [....] 
> GRETIL - Goettingen Register of Electronic Texts in Indian Languages:
> http://www.sub.uni-goettingen.de/ebene_1/fiindolo/gretil.htm
> [...]


> Von: Indology im Auftrag von Jean-Luc Chevillard
> Gesendet: Do 01.10.2009 16:44
> An: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk
> Betreff: Unicode-compliant Garamond font ?
>   


>
> Dear list members,
>
> is there a Unicode-compliant Garamond font
> available somewhere on the internet?
> (or a Garamond look-alike?)
>
> Thanks for your feedback
>
> -- Jean-Luc Chevillard
>
>   


> Richard MAHONEY a ?crit :
>   
>> Dear Readers,
>>
>> John Smith's recently updated font collection will be of interest to
>> some of you.
>>
>>
>> -----Forwarded Message-----
>> From: John Smith <jds10 at cam.ac.uk>
>> To: Richard MAHONEY <r.mahoney at iconz.co.nz>
>> Cc: John Smith <jds10 at cam.ac.uk>
>> Subject: IndUni fonts
>> Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2009 11:53:36 +0530
>>
>> [snip]
>>
>> I have recently created upgraded versions of my "IndUni" OpenType
>> fonts. These are Unicode-compliant fonts that contain a comprehensive
>> set of "Indological" characters, as well as all the European characters
>> that scholars are likely to need. They are available as freeware, and
>> include high-quality lookalikes for Times, Palatino, New Century
>> Schoolbook, Helvetica and Courier. They are based on the freeware fonts
>> so generously contributed by URW++ of Germany.
>>
>>     

>> The fonts can be downloaded from http://bombay.indology.info/.
>>
>> John Smith
>>
>>
>> John Smith
>> jds10 at cam.ac.uk
>> http://bombay.indology.info <http://bombay.indology.info/> 
>>
>>
>>
>>  
>>     
>
>   




From pankajaindia at GMAIL.COM  Sun Oct  4 20:33:33 2009
From: pankajaindia at GMAIL.COM (Pankaj Jain)
Date: Sun, 04 Oct 09 21:33:33 +0100
Subject: Admission open for Summer School for Jainism in India
Message-ID: <161227087677.23782.9859732067569140520.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

(I forward a message from Dr. Sulekh Jain)

ADMSSION TO ISSJS 2010 NOW OPEN

ISSJS invites  enquiries and applications  now for ISSJS 2010

This is a great opportunity to study Jainism and the Jain  community in an
experiential based academic settings in India in the summer of 2010.

ISSJS was established in 2005 and so far nearly 122 scholars and students
from 9  countries and more than 20 universities of the world have attended
the last 4 ISSJSs.  In addition to class room lectures by eminent scholars
of Jainism, the other  great features of this program are the meetings and
interactions with the Jain professionals , practitioners, monks, nuns and
visits to temples, historical and architectural  places. The emphasis is on
the study and learning of  philosophy, art , history and culture of the Jains.

Another great beauty of this unique program is that nearly full cost (
except $400-500) of the program such as tuition, course material, boarding
and lodging  in India for the entire stay are paid for by ISSJS to all
participants. In addition, some full time faculty and Grad students
attending the advance program/module  also receive economy class return trip
plus some cash stipends.

ISSJS 2010 offers 4 different modules as opposed to  3 in ISSJS 2009. A
brief flyer is attached for your information. Full details of this program
along with the application forms are available on ISSJS web site;
www.jainstudies.org.

Kindly circulate this flyer among students,  in your department , your
friends and acquaintances who may be interested in this program

With my many thanks

Sulekh C. Jain, PhD
Chairman , Governing Council,
ISSJS North America
Houston, Texas ,USA
281 494 7656 ( home)
832 594 8005 ( cell)




From athr at LOC.GOV  Tue Oct  6 20:09:47 2009
From: athr at LOC.GOV (Allen W Thrasher)
Date: Tue, 06 Oct 09 16:09:47 -0400
Subject: European auction houses and Asian materials
Message-ID: <161227087679.23782.16981562878398983674.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

If there are any auction houses on the Continent of Europe that at least occasionally deal in rare books and manuscripts from South or Southeast Asia, could folks please inform me of them?  The Library of Congress is attempting to create an internal list of auction houses offering library materials.

Thanks,

Allen



Allen W. Thrasher, Ph.D.
Senior Reference Librarian
Team Coordinator
South Asia Team, Asian Division
Library of Congress, Jefferson Building 150
101 Independence Ave., S.E.
Washington, DC 20540-4810
tel. 202-707-3732; fax 202-707-1724; athr at loc.gov
The opinions expressed do not necessarily reflect those of the Library of Congress.




From peterfriedlander at YAHOO.COM.AU  Wed Oct  7 01:49:45 2009
From: peterfriedlander at YAHOO.COM.AU (Peter Friedlander)
Date: Tue, 06 Oct 09 18:49:45 -0700
Subject: Auction Houses
In-Reply-To: <INDOLOGY%200910070000367053.0D30@LISTSERV.LIV.AC.UK>
Message-ID: <161227087682.23782.4785932322544358965.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Dear Colleagues,
I wrote catalogue entries for Sam Fogg in London (http://www.samfogg.com/) a while ago.
They used to have the most wonderful South Asian stuff for sale,
everything from ancient Buddhist MS from Afghanistan to illustrated manuscripts, I remember seeing a copy of an 18th century illustrated Ramayana/Ramcaritmanas with Nagari and Nastaliq scripts on facing pages.
some of their stuff had also been through the states on its way from wherever it came from to wherever it was going.
So Sam Fogg is one to watch, in fact their website catalogue shows this as well.
regards
Peter

---------------------------

Peter Friedlander

21 Hindhede Dr #04-04

Singapore, 589318

Handphone: (65) 90624357


Send instant messages to your online friends http://au.messenger.yahoo.com 




From athr at LOC.GOV  Wed Oct  7 19:10:32 2009
From: athr at LOC.GOV (Allen W Thrasher)
Date: Wed, 07 Oct 09 15:10:32 -0400
Subject: Auction Houses
In-Reply-To: <262257.72137.qm@web65713.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <161227087684.23782.219747284065917005.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Dear Peter,

Thanks.  We are well aware of Sam Fogg and have long had dealings with him.  I was wondering about auctioneers on the Continent.

Allen

>>> Peter Friedlander <peterfriedlander at YAHOO.COM.AU> 10/6/2009 9:49 PM >>>
Dear Colleagues,
I wrote catalogue entries for Sam Fogg in London (http://www.samfogg.com/) a while ago.
They used to have the most wonderful South Asian stuff for sale,
everything from ancient Buddhist MS from Afghanistan to illustrated manuscripts, I remember seeing a copy of an 18th century illustrated Ramayana/Ramcaritmanas with Nagari and Nastaliq scripts on facing pages.
some of their stuff had also been through the states on its way from wherever it came from to wherever it was going.
So Sam Fogg is one to watch, in fact their website catalogue shows this as well.
regards
Peter




From antonio.jardim at GMAIL.COM  Thu Oct  8 01:51:17 2009
From: antonio.jardim at GMAIL.COM (Antonio Ferreira-Jardim)
Date: Thu, 08 Oct 09 11:51:17 +1000
Subject: Auction Houses
In-Reply-To: <4ACCAF680200003A000697D0@ntgwgate.loc.gov>
Message-ID: <161227087687.23782.8106261682425842612.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Dear Allen,

On occasion, I have found significant items of Indological interest at
the following Dutch auction houses:

HONDIUS BOOK AND PRINT AUCTIONS B.V.
Graaf van Burenstraat 12 - 7411 RW Deventer, the Netherlands
Tel: 0570-600665 or 06-10299776
Fax:0570-610774
E-mail: info at hondiusauctions.com
www.hondiusauctions.com

BURGERSDIJK & NIERMANS
Nieuwsteeg 1
2311 RW Leiden
The Netherlands
P.O. Box 9002
2300 PA Leiden
The Netherlands
Phone: (+31) 71 5121067 or (+31) 71 5126381
Fax: (+31) 71 5130461
auctions at b-n.nl
www.b-n.nl

I hope that is of some assistance.

Kind regards,

Antonio Ferreira-Jardim
Brisbane, Australia

On Thu, Oct 8, 2009 at 5:10 AM, Allen W Thrasher <athr at loc.gov> wrote:
> Dear Peter,
>
> Thanks. ?We are well aware of Sam Fogg and have long had dealings with him. ?I was wondering about auctioneers on the Continent.
>
> Allen
>
>>>> Peter Friedlander <peterfriedlander at YAHOO.COM.AU> 10/6/2009 9:49 PM >>>
> Dear Colleagues,
> I wrote catalogue entries for Sam Fogg in London (http://www.samfogg.com/) a while ago.
> They used to have the most wonderful South Asian stuff for sale,
> everything from ancient Buddhist MS from Afghanistan to illustrated manuscripts, I remember seeing a copy of an 18th century illustrated Ramayana/Ramcaritmanas with Nagari and Nastaliq scripts on facing pages.
> some of their stuff had also been through the states on its way from wherever it came from to wherever it was going.
> So Sam Fogg is one to watch, in fact their website catalogue shows this as well.
> regards
> Peter
>




From gruenen at SUB.UNI-GOETTINGEN.DE  Thu Oct  8 14:44:38 2009
From: gruenen at SUB.UNI-GOETTINGEN.DE (Gruenendahl, Reinhold)
Date: Thu, 08 Oct 09 16:44:38 +0200
Subject: GRETIL update #358
Message-ID: <161227087689.23782.15931391614737996961.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

GRETIL is pleased to be able to report the following addition(s) to its
collection:

Jayatirtha: Nyayasudha, Adhyaya 1
<http://www.sub.uni-goettingen.de/ebene_1/fiindolo/gretil.htm#JayNysu>
(revised and completed)

 

__________________________________________________________________________

"GRETIL is intended as a cumulative register of the numerous download sites
for electronic texts in Indian languages." (from the 2001 "mission
statement")

GRETIL - Goettingen Register of Electronic Texts in Indian Languages:

http://www.sub.uni-goettingen.de/ebene_1/fiindolo/gretil.htm




From athr at LOC.GOV  Fri Oct  9 17:28:21 2009
From: athr at LOC.GOV (Allen W Thrasher)
Date: Fri, 09 Oct 09 13:28:21 -0400
Subject: Auction Houses
In-Reply-To: <ddf436400910071851p113f863cya9e323f64164ac22@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <161227087692.23782.12995115256850616625.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Dear Antonio,

Thanks very much.

Allen

>>> Antonio Ferreira-Jardim <antonio.jardim at GMAIL.COM> 10/7/2009 9:51 PM >>>
Dear Allen,

On occasion, I have found significant items of Indological interest at
the following Dutch auction houses:

HONDIUS BOOK AND PRINT AUCTIONS B.V.
Graaf van Burenstraat 12 - 7411 RW Deventer, the Netherlands
Tel: 0570-600665 or 06-10299776
Fax:0570-610774
E-mail: info at hondiusauctions.com 
www.hondiusauctions.com 

BURGERSDIJK & NIERMANS
Nieuwsteeg 1
2311 RW Leiden
The Netherlands
P.O. Box 9002
2300 PA Leiden
The Netherlands
Phone: (+31) 71 5121067 or (+31) 71 5126381
Fax: (+31) 71 5130461
auctions at b-n.nl 
www.b-n.nl 

I hope that is of some assistance.

Kind regards,

Antonio Ferreira-Jardim
Brisbane, Australia




From harshadehejia at HOTMAIL.COM  Sat Oct 10 10:42:17 2009
From: harshadehejia at HOTMAIL.COM (Harsha Dehejia)
Date: Sat, 10 Oct 09 10:42:17 +0000
Subject: Radha
Message-ID: <161227087694.23782.14897900466108753877.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Friends:

 

A seminar on Radha is being held in Delhi on Friday January 29, 2010.

 

This is being jointly organised by me and the department of Art & Aesthetics of the Jawaharlal Nehru University.

 

Please let me know if any of you are interested in attending.

 

There is no travel grant but accommodation could be arranged.

 

Regards.

 

Harsha V. Dehejia

College of Humanities

Carleton University, Ottawa, ON.

Canada.

 

Radha

her transformation from a gopi to a goddess

Despite a rich presence in the visual and performing arts Radha remains an enigmatic figure in the shringara tradition. Emerging from Jayadeva?s Gita Govinda Radha takes a number of different courses. In the hands of ritikal poets of the 17th and 18th centuries she becomes a courtly nayika and features in countless taxonomies of the romantic woman. Chaitanya who takes his stand on the Gita Govinda makes her into a consort of Krishna and devotees of Gaudiya Vaishnavism hail her with the words Radhe! Radhe!. In the traditions of Maharashtra and Tamil Nadu Radha is conspicuous by her absence. In the folk tradition of Bengal Radha is sometimes seen as a kalankini or defiled woman. Despite this philosophers and critics, choreographers and miniature artists celebrate her in many different ways. The seminar will investigate the many sides of Radha in her journey from a gopi to a goddess.

 

 
 		 	   		  




From indologi at GWDG.DE  Wed Oct 14 12:22:15 2009
From: indologi at GWDG.DE (Indologie, Seminar fuer)
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 09 14:22:15 +0200
Subject: Vacancy: Sanskrit Dictionary in G=?iso-8859-15?Q?=F6ttingen,?=              Germany
Message-ID: <161227087696.23782.8332538353945182715.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Dear list members,

on behalf of Prof. Dr. Jens-Uwe Hartmann, I would like to call your attention
to the advertisement of a vacancy at the Academy of Sciences, G?ttingen
(Germany), in the project "Sanskrit dictionary of Buddhist Turfan texts".
Please forward the text given below to suitable applicants. For further
information contact Prof. Dr. Jens-Uwe Hartmann, Universit?t M?nchen,
Institut f?r Indologie und Tibetologie, Geschwister-Scholl-Platz 1, 80539
M?nchen, or juhartmann at lmu.de.

Best wishes,
Thomas Oberlies
--
Prof. Dr. Thomas Oberlies
Seminar f?r Indologie und Tibetologie
Waldweg 26
37073 G?ttingen
Tel.: 0551/39-13301
Fax: 0551/39-13192
email: indologi at gwdg.de


---------------------------------
AKADEMIE DER WISSENSCHAFTEN ZU G?TTINGEN

Die Akademie der Wissenschaften zu G?ttingen stellt voraussichtlich zum
01.07.2010
eine(n) wissenschaftliche(n) Mitarbeiter(in)(TV-L E 13/14)
in der Arbeitsstelle Sanskrit-W?rterbuch in G?ttingen ein. Die Stelle ist
befristet. Sie ist vorgesehen
als Teilzeitbesch?ftigung mit mindestens 50% der regelm??igen w?chentlichen
Arbeitszeit;
ggf. kommt aber eine Aufstockung bis 100% in Betracht.

Aufgabengebiet:
Leitende Redaktion des Sanskrit-W?rterbuchs der buddhistischen Texte aus den
Turfan-Funden;
Mitarbeit an der Edition sowie Organisation, Koordinierung und Kontrolle der
editorischen Arbeiten.

Einstellungsvoraussetzungen:
Voraussetzungen sind eine einschl?gige Promotion, Editionserfahrung und
ausgewiesene Kenntnisse
der buddhistischen Sanskrit-Literatur; erw?nscht sind Kenntnisse der
tibetischen ?bersetzungsliteratur.
Schwerbehinderte Bewerberinnen und Bewerber werden bei gleicher Eignung
bevorzugt ber?cksichtigt.
Bewerbungen von Frauen werden besonders begr??t.

Bewerbungen sind mit den ?blichen Unterlagen (Bewerbungsschreiben,
Tabellarischer Lebenslauf,
Schriftenverzeichnis, Hochschul- und Promotionsabschluss) bis zum 30.
November 2009 an
den Kommissionsvorsitzenden zu richten: Herrn Prof. Dr. Jens-Uwe Hartmann,
Universit?t M?nchen,
Institut f?r Indologie und Tibetologie, Geschwister-Scholl-Platz 1, 80539
M?nchen, oder
elektronisch an juhartmann at lmu.de.




From BrodbeckSP at CARDIFF.AC.UK  Thu Oct 15 13:47:36 2009
From: BrodbeckSP at CARDIFF.AC.UK (Simon Brodbeck)
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 09 14:47:36 +0100
Subject: Publication announcement
In-Reply-To: <a06240889c6f7b5022412@[192.168.1.2]>
Message-ID: <161227087699.23782.12438661855230547148.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Dear colleagues,

I am delighted to announce the publication of a monograph proceeding from
the ?Epic Constructions? project at the School of Oriental and African
Studies, University of London (2004-2007):

Simon Pearse Brodbeck, ?The Mahabharata Patriline: Gender, Culture, and the
Royal Hereditary?. Farnham, Surrey: Ashgate Publishing, 2009. Pp. xiv +
329. ISBN 978-0-7546-6787-2 (hbk). ?55.

The book is a chronological survey of the Sanskrit Mahabharata's central
royal patriline. It explores the importance and implications of patrilineal
maintenance within the royal culture depicted by the text, and shows how
patrilineal memory comes up against the fact that in every generation a
wife must be involved, with the consequent danger that the children might
not sustain the memorial tradition of their paternal family. Studying the
Mahabharata as an integral literary unit and as a story stretched over
dozens of generations, the book casts particular light on the events of the
more recent generations and suggests that the text's internal narrators are
members of the family whose story they tell.


CONTENTS

List of figures; Preface; Sanskrit pronunciation guide; Map

Part One: A Royal Patrilineal Model
1. Analogical deceptions
2. Wide shots
3. The Mahabharata patriline
4. Shraddha in the Mahabharata
5. Marriage and the heir
6. The royal hunt

Part Two: The Distant Ancestry
7. Female links
8. Yayati
9. The Paurava stretch
10. Duhshanta, Shakuntala, and the Bharatas
11. Samvarana
12. Kuru

Part Three: The Pandavas and their Proximate Ancestry
13. Shamtanu and Bhishma
14. Dhritarashtra and Pandu
15. The Pandavas

Part Four: Janamejaya and the Sarpasatra
16. Parikshit
17. Janamejaya
18. Conclusion

Appendices; Glossary; Bibliography; Index.


ERRATA
p. 143: ?TApatI? should read ?TapatI?
p. 250: ?Shaunaka?s? should read ?Shaunaka?
p. 267: ?uncle? should read ?cousin?.


Simon Brodbeck
School of Religious and Theological Studies
Cardiff University
Wales




From jhakgirish at YAHOO.COM  Fri Oct 16 18:49:21 2009
From: jhakgirish at YAHOO.COM (girish jha)
Date: Fri, 16 Oct 09 11:49:21 -0700
Subject: SHUBHA DIPAVALIH
Message-ID: <161227087702.23782.7223747862641297376.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Dear Honourable Indologists,
??? ?ubha? D?p?valih?
?
Jyotis?mat? man?galad? hi Laks?m?h?
Sa?c?rin??? d?pa?ikheva? nityam?.
?lokayant? bahirantara?ca
Kriy?d vil?sam? vasatau sames??m?.//
Regards
Sincerely
GIRISH? K.JHA,
DEPT OF SANSKRIT,PATNA UNIVERSITY,INDIA


      




From rt2036 at COLUMBIA.EDU  Sat Oct 17 16:42:17 2009
From: rt2036 at COLUMBIA.EDU (Roy Tsohar)
Date: Sat, 17 Oct 09 12:42:17 -0400
Subject: NAgArjuna on polysemy
Message-ID: <161227087704.23782.18389203978843300362.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Dear list members,

I am currently working on some of Asanga's arguments in the
vinizcayasaMgrahaNI, in which he uses polysemy to counter the notion
of an invariable word-referent relation. Similar arguments appear in
various textual sources, Buddhist as well as non Buddhist (for
instance the NyAyasUtra and bhASya 2.1.56, etc).
I recall reading of a similar argument made by NAgArjuna, possibly in
an article of Johannes Bronkhorst citing Lindetner, but I could not
find it. I would be grateful if anyone has a clue as to where this
appears in NagArjuna or in which article it is cited.
Many thanks,

Roy Tzohar
Columbia University
Tel Aviv University




From ph2046 at COLUMBIA.EDU  Tue Oct 20 11:01:58 2009
From: ph2046 at COLUMBIA.EDU (Paul G. Hackett)
Date: Tue, 20 Oct 09 07:01:58 -0400
Subject: Unicode fonts for Ranjana/Lentsa
In-Reply-To: <fbbbf77f5db8.4ade29a7@anu.edu.au>
Message-ID: <161227087709.23782.17034324095056273113.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Dear McComas,

Quoting McComas Taylor <McComas.Taylor at ANU.EDU.AU>:
> Can anyone recommend a Unicode font for Ranjana/Lentsa that will run  
>  on a Windows system?

    I was looking into Ranjana fonts a couple of years ago.  The short  
answer is that there are *some* fonts out there; the only ones I found  
were "RanjanaLipi" and "PrachalitLipi":

http://www.ffonts.net/BISHOWSON2-Ranjana-Lipi-ISBN9993355933.font
http://www.guthi.org/1html/regular_html/fonts.htm

but the documentation was wanting.  I know that Xenotype Technologies  
(http://www.xenotypetech.com) had been working on a Ranjana font, but  
had provisionally mapped the script to the Tibetan section of Unicode  
-- this was prior to Michael Everson's proposal for Ranjana to be  
included in Unicode in it's own section. See:

http://www.unicode.org/pending/pending.html
(specifically http://std.dkuug.dk/jtc1/sc2/wg2/docs/n3649.pdf)

I hope that helps, or is at least informative.

Best,

Paul Hackett
Columbia University




From tcoleman at COLORADOCOLLEGE.EDU  Tue Oct 20 21:58:24 2009
From: tcoleman at COLORADOCOLLEGE.EDU (Tracy Coleman)
Date: Tue, 20 Oct 09 15:58:24 -0600
Subject: Bhagavata-Purana
Message-ID: <161227087711.23782.7351908460142904501.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Indologists--

This is a delayed response to the email below from Arlo Griffiths
regarding a "critical edition" of the Bhagavata Purana.  I work on the
Bhagavata, but this recent edition was news to me, I must admit.  Can any
of you provide an assessment of this edition, however briefly?
Specifically, is it a "critical edition," and if so, in what sense (which
and how many sources etc.)?  Is it being received as *the* critical
edition, like the Critical Edition of the MBh (leaving aside the fact that
not all of you accept the latter)?  How much does this new edition differ
from other editions that scholars have recently used as a standard, such
as J.L. Shastri's with Sridhara's commentary (Motilal 1983)?

Thanks so much for any further info, which will help me at least until I
can get said new edition.

Tracy Coleman
The Colorado College


-----Original Message-----
From: Indology on behalf of Arlo Griffiths
Sent: Thu 7/30/2009 6:11 PM
To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk
Subject: Re: Bhagavata-Purana
 

There is a relatively recent critical edition published from Adhmedabad.
My copy is in storage but this seems to be it (exported and slightly
expanded from worldcat):
SASTRI, H. G., SHELAT, B. K., & SASTRI, K. K. (1996-2002).Sribhagavatam:
Srimad Bhagavata-mahapura?am : samik?ita avr?tti. Ahamadabada, Bho. Je.
Adhyayana-Sa?sodhana Vidyabhavana.

Best wishes from Medan,
Arlo Griffiths

> Date: Thu, 30 Jul 2009 23:46:01 +0200
> From: pwyzlic at UNI-BONN.DE
> Subject: Bhagavata-Purana
> To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk
> 
> Greetings to all,
> 
> I have been asked if there is some kind of a "standard" edition of the  
> Bhagavatapurana to rely upon (for citing and so on). Off hand, I  
> didn't know one that may be called a "standard". Or is there a  
> published version that serves as a  "majority edition", at least?
> 
> All the best
> Peter Wyzlic
> 
> --
> Institut f?r Orient- und Asienwissenschaften
> Abteilung f?r Indologie
> Universit?t Bonn
> Regina-Pacis-Weg 7
> 53113 Bonn

_________________________________________________________________
Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today it's FREE!
http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/




From j_e_m_houben at YAHOO.COM  Tue Oct 20 23:04:19 2009
From: j_e_m_houben at YAHOO.COM (Jan E.M. Houben)
Date: Tue, 20 Oct 09 16:04:19 -0700
Subject: New Issue eJIM
Message-ID: <161227087716.23782.16588009211676650423.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Dear All,
eJIM - the eJournal of Indian Medicine has just published its latest issue at?http://www.indianmedicine.nl. We invite you to review the Table of Contents here and then visit our web site to review articles and items of interest.?eJIM currently has more than 250 registered Readers.?Thanks for the continuing interest in our work,?Roelf?BarkhuisPublisher of eJIMinfo at barkhuis.nlwww.barkhuis.nl???eJIM - eJournal of Indian MedicineVol 2, No 2 (2009)Table of Contentshttp://bjournals.ub.rug.nl/index.php/ejim/issue/view/29?Articles--------Memoirs of Vaidyas. The Lives and Practices of Traditional Medical Doctors in Kerala, India (3) (25-51)????? Tsutomu Yamashita,????? P. Ram Manohar?Alchemical procedures and their implications for the chronology of medieval rasa??stra (53-65)??????Oliver Hellwig?



      




From McComas.Taylor at ANU.EDU.AU  Tue Oct 20 10:20:39 2009
From: McComas.Taylor at ANU.EDU.AU (McComas Taylor)
Date: Tue, 20 Oct 09 21:20:39 +1100
Subject: Unicode fonts for Ranjana/Lentsa
Message-ID: <161227087707.23782.16030112025510911043.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Dear Colleagues

Can anyone recommend a Unicode font for Ranjana/Lentsa that will run on a Windows system?

Thanks in advance

McComas




From harshadehejia at HOTMAIL.COM  Tue Oct 20 22:09:45 2009
From: harshadehejia at HOTMAIL.COM (Harsha Dehejia)
Date: Tue, 20 Oct 09 22:09:45 +0000
Subject: Bhagavata-Purana
In-Reply-To: <DD3551F5EE1D844A80ED4B4F7B48DE31D6F38A@exchange-b.ColoradoCollege.edu>
Message-ID: <161227087713.23782.16122922875660333432.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Friends:

 

I have the X book of the critical edition and am going through it.

 

On a related note can any one tell me if there is critical edition of Sur Sagar? I had heard that some one at the University of British Columbia was working on it.
 

Regards.

 

Harsha

Harsha V. dehejia

Ottawa, ON., Canada.
 		 	   		  




From christophe.vielle at UCLOUVAIN.BE  Wed Oct 21 08:11:49 2009
From: christophe.vielle at UCLOUVAIN.BE (Christophe Vielle)
Date: Wed, 21 Oct 09 10:11:49 +0200
Subject: Bhagavata-Purana
In-Reply-To: <DD3551F5EE1D844A80ED4B4F7B48DE31D6F38A@exchange-b.ColoradoCollege.edu>
Message-ID: <161227087718.23782.16484520847569983077.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

It is a true critical edition as useful as the MBh, Rm, Vi.s.nuP etc. ones.
Now, like for the others (in which I have not 
included the so perfect "original" SkP critical 
edition... the only one really worthy of that 
name according to some), many remarks (on 
methodological principles or on peculiar points) 
can be made on it. Dealing with this Ahmedabad 
edition of the BhgP, I remember the critical 
("carping"?) paper of Harunaga Isaacson "Grasping 
a hare's horn? Critically editing the Puraa.nas", 
presented at the XIIth WSC in Helsinki (2003), 
but it seems to have not been published yet.
There should be some reviews of the Ahmedabad 
volumes but I have not listed them, and would be 
happy to hear about.
With best wishes,
Christophe Vielle



>Indologists--
>
>This is a delayed response to the email below from Arlo Griffiths
>regarding a "critical edition" of the Bhagavata Purana.  I work on the
>Bhagavata, but this recent edition was news to me, I must admit.  Can any
>of you provide an assessment of this edition, however briefly?
>Specifically, is it a "critical edition," and if so, in what sense (which
>and how many sources etc.)?  Is it being received as *the* critical
>edition, like the Critical Edition of the MBh (leaving aside the fact that
>not all of you accept the latter)?  How much does this new edition differ
>from other editions that scholars have recently used as a standard, such
>as J.L. Shastri's with Sridhara's commentary (Motilal 1983)?
>
>Thanks so much for any further info, which will help me at least until I
>can get said new edition.
>
>Tracy Coleman
>The Colorado College
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Indology on behalf of Arlo Griffiths
>Sent: Thu 7/30/2009 6:11 PM
>To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk
>Subject: Re: Bhagavata-Purana
>
>
>There is a relatively recent critical edition published from Adhmedabad.
>My copy is in storage but this seems to be it (exported and slightly
>expanded from worldcat):
>SASTRI, H. G., SHELAT, B. K., & SASTRI, K. K. (1996-2002).Sribhagavatam:
>Srimad Bhagavata-mahapura?am : samik?ita avr?tti. Ahamadabada, Bho. Je.
>Adhyayana-Sa?sodhana Vidyabhavana.
>
>Best wishes from Medan,
>Arlo Griffiths
>
>>  Date: Thu, 30 Jul 2009 23:46:01 +0200
>>  From: pwyzlic at UNI-BONN.DE
>>  Subject: Bhagavata-Purana
>>  To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk
>>
>>  Greetings to all,
>>
>>  I have been asked if there is some kind of a "standard" edition of the 
>>  Bhagavatapurana to rely upon (for citing and so on). Off hand, I 
>>  didn't know one that may be called a "standard". Or is there a 
>>  published version that serves as a  "majority edition", at least?
>>
>>  All the best
>>  Peter Wyzlic
>>
>>  --
>>  Institut f?r Orient- und Asienwissenschaften
>>  Abteilung f?r Indologie
>>  Universit?t Bonn
>>  Regina-Pacis-Weg 7
>>  53113 Bonn
>
>_________________________________________________________________
>Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today it's FREE!
>http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/


-- 
http://www.uclouvain.be/christophe.vielle
http://belgianindology.lalibreblogs.be




From ucgadkw at UCL.AC.UK  Wed Oct 21 17:07:07 2009
From: ucgadkw at UCL.AC.UK (Dominik Wujastyk)
Date: Wed, 21 Oct 09 19:07:07 +0200
Subject: upcoming London exhibition of Tibetan MSS
Message-ID: <161227087721.23782.17572602583226739611.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Forwarded message:
---------------------------

Please click here to view our exhibition online:
http://www.samfogg.com/cgi-bin/gallery-2.pl?type=exhibition&id=20091029a&style=2

Sam Fogg Ltd.
15D Clifford Street
London W1S 4JZ
Tel:  020 7534 2100
Fax: 020 7534 2122




From avandergeer at PLANET.NL  Thu Oct 22 18:24:16 2009
From: avandergeer at PLANET.NL (Alexandra Vandergeer)
Date: Thu, 22 Oct 09 20:24:16 +0200
Subject: medieval industries
Message-ID: <161227087723.23782.9615290909143846208.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Dear all,

I'm not familiar with South Asian industries between 1000 and 1500 CE, does anybody have a good suggestion as to which literature to read on the subject and which recent articles to check? With industries I mean them all: wood, glass, textile, paper, metals and so on.

Alexandra van der Geer




From jenni.cover at URSYS.COM.AU  Fri Oct 23 00:34:56 2009
From: jenni.cover at URSYS.COM.AU (Jennifer Cover)
Date: Fri, 23 Oct 09 11:34:56 +1100
Subject: Source of verses
Message-ID: <161227087725.23782.13871858867742304765.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Greetings,

 

Does anyone recognise some or all of these verses ? or parts of them (my translation included)? They are at the end of a section called upade?a?o?a?? in a text called Bodhas?ra. They may have been witten by the author, Narahari, but even if he did, often verses like this are based on traditional sources. Any suggestions as to where to begin looking for a possible source would be much appreciated. Since this text was written in the 18th century I am wondering if there is some Sufi/Urdu poetry influence. Kaishmir Shaivism is another possibility.

 

atra ?lok??  |

 

varayogy?si kaly??i na sth?syasi vara? vin?  |

vara??yo varast?d?gyo bhavedajar?mara? ||13||

 

na ???o?i vara? y?vatt?vatte kampate mana?  |

pa?c?nmahottsavairbhadre sv?mina? tva? vari?yasi  ||14||

 

pare?a puru?e??dya ramasva vacan?nmama  |

sakhi pa?c?tsvata?citta? kuru yatr?dhika? sukham  ||15|| 

 

y?ta? dina? na punareti nava? vayaste lajj?? vih?ya bhaja ta? rama??yar?pam  |

b?le para? puru?a e?a yad? sameta? svarge?a ki? kimu tad? n?sukhena v? te  ||16||

 

Some verses on this.

 

13. O beautiful one, you are ready for a husband. You will not remain without a husband. The husband to be chosen should be one free from aging and death.

 

14. O auspicious one, as long as you do not hear about your husband your mind will be agitated. After (hearing) you will choose your husband with great rejoicing.

 

15. O friend, now, because of my words, delight with another man (the supreme puru?a). Later establish your mind, yourself, where there is superior happiness.

 

16. O youth, the past day will not come again. You have new youth. Abandon modesty and enjoy that beautiful one. When this supreme puru?a is met then what is the use of heaven or human happiness for you? 

 

Thankyou,

Dr Jennifer Cover

Sydney

Australia




From jataber at UNM.EDU  Sat Oct 24 15:00:09 2009
From: jataber at UNM.EDU (John Taber)
Date: Sat, 24 Oct 09 09:00:09 -0600
Subject: Job ad--a position in paradise?
In-Reply-To: <000e01ca547e$6caf7110$5025128b@uni9b34de09f1e>
Message-ID: <161227087730.23782.4408605884986085377.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

As Torella said, it's a paradise that everyone seems to want to escape  
from. Note that it's also for an assistant professor.

By the way, Roy Perrett is coming to New Mexico in couple of weeks to  
give a talk.

Hope you're having a good weekend.

J.

On Oct 24, 2009, at 1:48 AM, Eli Franco wrote:

> UNIVERSITY OF HAWAI'I AT MANOA, Honolulu, HI.  Assistant Professor,
> Position Number 83528, Department of Philosophy, College of Arts and
> Humanities.  The UH-Manoa Department of Philosophy invites  
> applications for
> a full-time, 9-month, tenure-track, Assistant Professor position,  
> beginning
> August 1, 2010, subject to position clearance and availability of  
> funds.
> Minimum Qualifications:  Ph.D. in Philosophy (ABDs will be considered
> provided that all degree requirements are completed by August 1,  
> 2010).
> AOS:  EITHER (1) South Asian Buddhist philosophy (including  
> competency in
> Sanskrit) OR (2) ancient Greek philosophy (including competency in  
> ancient
> Greek).  Desirable Qualifications:  Demonstrated excellence in  
> teaching and
> research; one or more years' prior experience as an assistant  
> professor at
> a research university.  AOC:  Ethical theory and social/political
> philosophy, continental philosophy, or aesthetics; ability to teach
> introductory formal logic.  Duties:  Teach courses in areas of
> specialization and competence, dissertation supervision, service on
> Department committees, and other duties as assigned by the Chair.  Pay
> range:  Salary commensurate with qualifications and experience.  To  
> apply:
> Submit cover letter, c.v., three current letters of recommendation,
> graduate transcripts, a brief writing sample, and evidence of teaching
> excellence.  Application address:  Search Committee, Department of
> Philosophy, 2530 Dole St., Honolulu HI 96822.  For additional  
> information
> contact Kenneth Kipnis, Chair, (808) 956-8649, <kkipnis at hawaii.edu>.
> Review of applications will begin on November 23, 2009 and continue  
> until
> position is filled.  AA/EEO.
>
>
>




From franco at RZ.UNI-LEIPZIG.DE  Sat Oct 24 07:48:49 2009
From: franco at RZ.UNI-LEIPZIG.DE (Eli Franco)
Date: Sat, 24 Oct 09 09:48:49 +0200
Subject: Job ad--a position in paradise?
In-Reply-To: <694725.23766.qm@web43131.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <161227087727.23782.5972062201164905488.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

UNIVERSITY OF HAWAI'I AT MANOA, Honolulu, HI.  Assistant Professor,
Position Number 83528, Department of Philosophy, College of Arts and
Humanities.  The UH-Manoa Department of Philosophy invites applications for
a full-time, 9-month, tenure-track, Assistant Professor position, beginning
August 1, 2010, subject to position clearance and availability of funds.
Minimum Qualifications:  Ph.D. in Philosophy (ABDs will be considered
provided that all degree requirements are completed by August 1, 2010).
AOS:  EITHER (1) South Asian Buddhist philosophy (including competency in
Sanskrit) OR (2) ancient Greek philosophy (including competency in ancient
Greek).  Desirable Qualifications:  Demonstrated excellence in teaching and
research; one or more years' prior experience as an assistant professor at
a research university.  AOC:  Ethical theory and social/political
philosophy, continental philosophy, or aesthetics; ability to teach
introductory formal logic.  Duties:  Teach courses in areas of
specialization and competence, dissertation supervision, service on
Department committees, and other duties as assigned by the Chair.  Pay
range:  Salary commensurate with qualifications and experience.  To apply:
Submit cover letter, c.v., three current letters of recommendation,
graduate transcripts, a brief writing sample, and evidence of teaching
excellence.  Application address:  Search Committee, Department of
Philosophy, 2530 Dole St., Honolulu HI 96822.  For additional information
contact Kenneth Kipnis, Chair, (808) 956-8649, <kkipnis at hawaii.edu>.
Review of applications will begin on November 23, 2009 and continue until
position is filled.  AA/EEO.


      




From jataber at UNM.EDU  Sat Oct 24 16:36:12 2009
From: jataber at UNM.EDU (John Taber)
Date: Sat, 24 Oct 09 10:36:12 -0600
Subject: goof
Message-ID: <161227087732.23782.7412134707634376634.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

My apologies for sending a personal email intended for Eli Franco out  
to the entire listserv!

John Taber




From gthomgt at COMCAST.NET  Sun Oct 25 03:53:59 2009
From: gthomgt at COMCAST.NET (George Thompson)
Date: Sat, 24 Oct 09 23:53:59 -0400
Subject: EJVS Laurasian academy?
In-Reply-To: <000e01ca547e$6caf7110$5025128b@uni9b34de09f1e>
Message-ID: <161227087735.23782.1812629780422846405.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Dear List,

I have been trying to download articles recently from EJVS, but I get 
transferred to some website called the Laurasian Academy instead.  It 
appears to be some online "academy,"  with no obvious connection to 
EJVS.  Can someone help with this?

Thanks in advance,

George Thompson




From witzel at FAS.HARVARD.EDU  Sun Oct 25 11:16:14 2009
From: witzel at FAS.HARVARD.EDU (Michael Witzel)
Date: Sun, 25 Oct 09 07:16:14 -0400
Subject: EJVS Laurasian academy?
In-Reply-To: <4AE3CBD7.40408@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <161227087737.23782.17733919468376072757.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

The Laurasian website was down for some days. It is functioning again.
<http://www.laurasianacademy.com/>

There is a clear link to EJVS at the bottom of the Laurasian page. It  
is working as well.
<http://www.ejvs.laurasianacademy.com/>

Cheers,
MW.



On Oct 24, 2009, at 11:53 PM, George Thompson wrote:

> Dear List,
>
> I have been trying to download articles recently from EJVS, but I  
> get transferred to some website called the Laurasian Academy  
> instead.  It appears to be some online "academy,"  with no obvious  
> connection to EJVS.  Can someone help with this?
>
> Thanks in advance,
>
> George Thompson

============
Michael Witzel
witzel at fas.harvard.edu
<www.fas.harvard.edu/~witzel/mwpage.htm>

Dept. of Sanskrit & Indian Studies, Harvard University
1 Bow Street,
Cambridge MA 02138, USA

phone: 1- 617 - 495 3295 (voice & messages), 496 8570, fax 617 - 496  
8571;
my direct line:  617- 496 2990




From witzel at FAS.HARVARD.EDU  Mon Oct 26 21:26:55 2009
From: witzel at FAS.HARVARD.EDU (Michael Witzel)
Date: Mon, 26 Oct 09 17:26:55 -0400
Subject: A. Piatigorsky passed away
Message-ID: <161227087740.23782.4588279294319968779.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Dear All, I transmit sad news, received via our PhD candidate, N.  
Yanchevskaya (ABD).

MW

----------------------------------

Alexander Piatigorsky, the renowned Russian philosopher, writer, and  
scholar of
Buddhism and Indian philosophy, has passed away yesterday, October  
25, 2009, in
London at the age of 80.

Here are announcements and obituaries in Russian:

<http://www.russ.ru/pole/Umer-Pyatigorskij>

<http://lenta.ru/news/2009/10/25/piatigorsky/>

<http://www.rian.ru/culture/20091025/190552732.html>

  -----------------

Nataliya Yanchevskaya
Dept. of Sanskrit and Indian Studies
Harvard University


============
Michael Witzel
witzel at fas.harvard.edu
<www.fas.harvard.edu/~witzel/mwpage.htm>

Dept. of Sanskrit & Indian Studies, Harvard University
1 Bow Street,
Cambridge MA 02138, USA

phone: 1- 617 - 495 3295 (voice & messages), 496 8570, fax 617 - 496  
8571;
my direct line:  617- 496 2990




From McComas.Taylor at ANU.EDU.AU  Tue Oct 27 02:47:17 2009
From: McComas.Taylor at ANU.EDU.AU (McComas Taylor)
Date: Tue, 27 Oct 09 13:47:17 +1100
Subject: 'Plants of the Meghaduta' multimedia website
Message-ID: <161227087742.23782.11095289891342887115.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Dear friends

Some time ago, I posted a link to Tomomi Sato's Meghaduta multimedia website. At that stage, the site only run under Internet Explorer. Tomomi now has a version of the site that runs well in Firefox:

http://meghaduta.awardspace.info/

We would be delighted if you would care to visit it. This was Tomomi's 4th year project on flowers and trees of the Meghaduta. You will find her own English and Japanese translations, artworks and beautiful sung renditions of selected verses.

I'm sure Tomomi would love to hear some feedback. Her email address is:

u4238655 at anu.edu.au

Yours

McComas Taylor




From gruenen at SUB.UNI-GOETTINGEN.DE  Wed Oct 28 14:21:02 2009
From: gruenen at SUB.UNI-GOETTINGEN.DE (Gruenendahl, Reinhold)
Date: Wed, 28 Oct 09 15:21:02 +0100
Subject: GRETIL update #359
Message-ID: <161227087744.23782.16947976045611058721.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

GRETIL is pleased to be able to report the following addition(s) to its
collection:

Somadeva: Kathasaritsagara, Vetalapancavimsatika:

http://www.sub.uni-goettingen.de/ebene_1/fiindolo/gretil.htm#SomKath_Vet

(plain text and analytic version)

 

__________________________________________________________________________ 

"GRETIL is intended as a cumulative register of the numerous download sites
for electronic texts in Indian languages." (from the 2001 "mission
statement") 

GRETIL - Goettingen Register of Electronic Texts in Indian Languages: 

http://www.sub.uni-goettingen.de/ebene_1/fiindolo/gretil.htm




From ucgadkw at UCL.AC.UK  Thu Oct 29 11:31:24 2009
From: ucgadkw at UCL.AC.UK (Dominik Wujastyk)
Date: Thu, 29 Oct 09 11:31:24 +0000
Subject: medieval industries
In-Reply-To: <DFBE823A920A4E4CBA3D46BD4C04116F76877A@CPEXBE-EML22.kpnsp.local>
Message-ID: <161227087746.23782.14043083949910143396.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

The publications of the late Oppi Untracht are classics of this field, and
include materials on India.

Best,
Dominik Wujastyk

On Thu, 22 Oct 2009, Alexandra Vandergeer wrote:

> Dear all,
>
> I'm not familiar with South Asian industries between 1000 and 1500 CE, does anybody have a good suggestion as to which literature to read on the subject and which recent articles to check? With industries I mean them all: wood, glass, textile, paper, metals and so on.
>
> Alexandra van der Geer
>




From rajam at EARTHLINK.NET  Thu Oct 29 22:54:53 2009
From: rajam at EARTHLINK.NET (rajam)
Date: Thu, 29 Oct 09 15:54:53 -0700
Subject: 'Plants of the Meghaduta' multimedia website
In-Reply-To: <fba9896ed6ee.4ae6f9e5@anu.edu.au>
Message-ID: <161227087748.23782.16338160819312510109.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Dear Dr. Taylor,

I'm sure I'm repeating here what others may have already spoken about  
Tomomi's multimedia work on the flowers and trees of the Meghaduta.
However, one more positive feedback from someone enthusiastically  
supporting Tomomi's effort won't hurt, I thought.

Tomomi's multimedia work on the flowers and trees of the Meghaduta is  
unique, as far as I know, and is extremely impressive, delightful,  
and informative!
Such work would provide, if it hasn't already, an insight into  
understanding the native plants and how those plants formed an  
integral part of one's life in ancient times.

A similar study of the various plants/flowers mentioned in ancient  
Tamil poetry, for example in the long list of flowers mentioned in  
the poem called the *kuRincippATTu,* would be really educational, I  
think.

And, especially with the new awareness of *health* everywhere in the  
present century, such studies may remind people to understand the  
health benefits of plants and flowers.

The only different comment I have is about Tomomi's presentation  
style--the graphical user interface (GUI), the look/design of the Web  
site, etc.-- which I'd be happy to discuss separately since such  
topic may not be of interest to the main stream audience of this list.

Please feel free to contact me at <rajam at earthlink.net> if you'd like  
to hear my views on the UI of Tomomi's Web site. I have some  
experience in the IT world and in providing feedback on software UI.

Thanks and regards,
V.S. Rajam


On Oct 26, 2009, at 7:47 PM, McComas Taylor wrote:

> Dear friends
>
> Some time ago, I posted a link to Tomomi Sato's Meghaduta  
> multimedia website. At that stage, the site only run under Internet  
> Explorer. Tomomi now has a version of the site that runs well in  
> Firefox:
>
> http://meghaduta.awardspace.info/
>
> We would be delighted if you would care to visit it. This was  
> Tomomi's 4th year project on flowers and trees of the Meghaduta.  
> You will find her own English and Japanese translations, artworks  
> and beautiful sung renditions of selected verses.
>
> I'm sure Tomomi would love to hear some feedback. Her email address  
> is:
>
> u4238655 at anu.edu.au
>
> Yours
>
> McComas Taylor




From glhart at BERKELEY.EDU  Sat Oct 31 14:04:21 2009
From: glhart at BERKELEY.EDU (George Hart)
Date: Sat, 31 Oct 09 07:04:21 -0700
Subject: yugas and colours
In-Reply-To: <8CA1900E-45FF-4842-83EA-25F4589F72D6@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <161227087753.23782.7943371841533802823.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

 From ParipaTal 3, about the 3rd or 4th century BCE:

Your wonder is such that you are counted
through four kinds of eons: zero, quarter, half, one, two
three, four, five, six, seven, eight, nine!  Black one
with red eyes!  White one with black eyes!  Green one
with golden eyes!  Dark one with green eyes!

George Hart

On Oct 30, 2009, at 11:10 PM, Dominic Goodall wrote:

> Dear all,
>
> Can anybody tell me whether the notion that Vi.s.nu changes colour  
> in each yuga predates the Bhaagavatapuraa.na?
>
> BhP_10.08.013/1 aasan var.naas trayo hy asya g.rh.nato 'nuyuga.m  
> tanuu.h
> BhP_10.08.013/3 "suklo raktas tathaa piita idaanii.m k.r.s.nataa.m  
> gata.h
>
> I find it in a few passages excluded from the critical text of the  
> Mahaabhaarata, e.g.
>
> 13*0002_01 ya.h "svetatvam upaagata.h k.rtayuge tretaayuge raktataa.m
> 13*0002_02 yugme ya.h kapila.h kalau sa bhagavaan k.r.s.natvam  
> abhyaagata.h
>
> Does anybody know of any demonstrably early references?
>
> Dominic Goodall




From glhart at BERKELEY.EDU  Sat Oct 31 14:29:49 2009
From: glhart at BERKELEY.EDU (George Hart)
Date: Sat, 31 Oct 09 07:29:49 -0700
Subject: yugas and colours
In-Reply-To: <0B1854C6-BEDF-4B6E-B0DD-728B0493BDEE@berkeley.edu>
Message-ID: <161227087756.23782.14667674894580792393.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

I neglected to mention that this is from a translation I made together  
with V.S. Rajam quite a few years ago.  It is well accepted that the  
Bhaagavata was written by a Tamilian who knew the Tamil Srivaisnava  
tradition and texts.  From reading the 10th book many years ago and  
looking over these poems, it strikes me that the author was very  
likely familiar with the great poems of the ParipaaTal also.  George  
Hart

On Oct 31, 2009, at 7:04 AM, George Hart wrote:

> From ParipaTal 3, about the 3rd or 4th century BCE:
>
> Your wonder is such that you are counted
> through four kinds of eons: zero, quarter, half, one, two
> three, four, five, six, seven, eight, nine!  Black one
> with red eyes!  White one with black eyes!  Green one
> with golden eyes!  Dark one with green eyes!
>
> George Hart
>
> On Oct 30, 2009, at 11:10 PM, Dominic Goodall wrote:
>
>> Dear all,
>>
>> Can anybody tell me whether the notion that Vi.s.nu changes colour  
>> in each yuga predates the Bhaagavatapuraa.na?
>>
>> BhP_10.08.013/1 aasan var.naas trayo hy asya g.rh.nato 'nuyuga.m  
>> tanuu.h
>> BhP_10.08.013/3 "suklo raktas tathaa piita idaanii.m k.r.s.nataa.m  
>> gata.h
>>
>> I find it in a few passages excluded from the critical text of the  
>> Mahaabhaarata, e.g.
>>
>> 13*0002_01 ya.h "svetatvam upaagata.h k.rtayuge tretaayuge raktataa.m
>> 13*0002_02 yugme ya.h kapila.h kalau sa bhagavaan k.r.s.natvam  
>> abhyaagata.h
>>
>> Does anybody know of any demonstrably early references?
>>
>> Dominic Goodall




From glhart at BERKELEY.EDU  Sat Oct 31 15:53:40 2009
From: glhart at BERKELEY.EDU (George Hart)
Date: Sat, 31 Oct 09 08:53:40 -0700
Subject: yugas and colours
In-Reply-To: <6F6B67F03E334E889A7E5BE24A4D276D@OPTIPLEX>
Message-ID: <161227087765.23782.8501904058856481716.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Of course it's CE, not BCE.  None of the Tamil works can be dated to  
BCE -- though we do have inscriptions from the first couple centuries  
BCE.

The Tamil is

  paaz ena kaal ena paaku ena onRu ena pari.3-77
  iraNTu ena muunRu ena naanku ena aintu ena pari.3-78
  aaRu ena eezu ena eTTu ena toNTu ena pari.3-79
  naalvakai uuzi eN naviRRum ciRappinai pari.3-80
  ce kaN kaari karu kaN veLLai pari.3-81
  pon kaN paccai pai kaN maaal pari.3-82

(Malten's transcription)

"Black" is from kaari, ultimately from karu, the standard word for  
"black."  "Dark" is maal, which can mean "blackness" or "greatness,"  
"great man," "Visnu."  "Dark one with green eyes" could also mean  
"Green-eyed Visnu!" -- which might make more sense, as "black" has  
already been used.  The word for "green" can also mean "yellow."

George Hart

On Oct 31, 2009, at 8:00 AM, JKirkpatrick wrote:

> I'm curious as to what are the words for "black" and "dark" in
> this typology?
> The usual colors cropping up in such typologies are white, red,
> yellow, and blue/green/black.
>
> JK
> =============
>
> On Behalf Of George Hart
> Sent: Saturday, October 31, 2009 8:04 AM
>
>
> From ParipaTal 3, about the 3rd or 4th century BCE:
>
> Your wonder is such that you are counted through four kinds of
> eons: zero, quarter, half, one, two three, four, five, six,
> seven, eight, nine!  Black one with red eyes!  White one with
> black eyes!  Green one with golden eyes!  Dark one with green
> eyes!
>
> George Hart
>
> On Oct 30, 2009, at 11:10 PM, Dominic Goodall wrote:
>
>> Dear all,
>>
>> Can anybody tell me whether the notion that Vi.s.nu changes
> colour in
>> each yuga predates the Bhaagavatapuraa.na?
>>
>> BhP_10.08.013/1 aasan var.naas trayo hy asya g.rh.nato
> 'nuyuga.m
>> tanuu.h
>> BhP_10.08.013/3 "suklo raktas tathaa piita idaanii.m
> k.r.s.nataa.m
>> gata.h
>>
>> I find it in a few passages excluded from the critical text of
> the
>> Mahaabhaarata, e.g.
>>
>> 13*0002_01 ya.h "svetatvam upaagata.h k.rtayuge tretaayuge
> raktataa.m
>> 13*0002_02 yugme ya.h kapila.h kalau sa bhagavaan k.r.s.natvam
>> abhyaagata.h
>>
>> Does anybody know of any demonstrably early references?
>>
>> Dominic Goodall




From jkirk at SPRO.NET  Sat Oct 31 15:00:02 2009
From: jkirk at SPRO.NET (JKirkpatrick)
Date: Sat, 31 Oct 09 09:00:02 -0600
Subject: yugas and colours
In-Reply-To: <0B1854C6-BEDF-4B6E-B0DD-728B0493BDEE@berkeley.edu>
Message-ID: <161227087762.23782.14734158169517519384.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

 I'm curious as to what are the words for "black" and "dark" in
this typology?
The usual colors cropping up in such typologies are white, red,
yellow, and blue/green/black.

JK
=============

 On Behalf Of George Hart
Sent: Saturday, October 31, 2009 8:04 AM


 From ParipaTal 3, about the 3rd or 4th century BCE:

Your wonder is such that you are counted through four kinds of
eons: zero, quarter, half, one, two three, four, five, six,
seven, eight, nine!  Black one with red eyes!  White one with
black eyes!  Green one with golden eyes!  Dark one with green
eyes!

George Hart

On Oct 30, 2009, at 11:10 PM, Dominic Goodall wrote:

> Dear all,
>
> Can anybody tell me whether the notion that Vi.s.nu changes
colour in 
> each yuga predates the Bhaagavatapuraa.na?
>
> BhP_10.08.013/1 aasan var.naas trayo hy asya g.rh.nato
'nuyuga.m 
> tanuu.h
> BhP_10.08.013/3 "suklo raktas tathaa piita idaanii.m
k.r.s.nataa.m 
> gata.h
>
> I find it in a few passages excluded from the critical text of
the 
> Mahaabhaarata, e.g.
>
> 13*0002_01 ya.h "svetatvam upaagata.h k.rtayuge tretaayuge
raktataa.m
> 13*0002_02 yugme ya.h kapila.h kalau sa bhagavaan k.r.s.natvam 
> abhyaagata.h
>
> Does anybody know of any demonstrably early references?
>
> Dominic Goodall




From dominic.goodall at GMAIL.COM  Sat Oct 31 06:10:29 2009
From: dominic.goodall at GMAIL.COM (Dominic Goodall)
Date: Sat, 31 Oct 09 11:40:29 +0530
Subject: yugas and colours
Message-ID: <161227087751.23782.14905763695248645005.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Dear all,

Can anybody tell me whether the notion that Vi.s.nu changes colour in  
each yuga predates the Bhaagavatapuraa.na?

BhP_10.08.013/1 aasan var.naas trayo hy asya g.rh.nato 'nuyuga.m tanuu.h
BhP_10.08.013/3 "suklo raktas tathaa piita idaanii.m k.r.s.nataa.m  
gata.h

I find it in a few passages excluded from the critical text of the  
Mahaabhaarata, e.g.

13*0002_01 ya.h "svetatvam upaagata.h k.rtayuge tretaayuge raktataa.m
13*0002_02 yugme ya.h kapila.h kalau sa bhagavaan k.r.s.natvam  
abhyaagata.h

Does anybody know of any demonstrably early references?

Dominic Goodall




From jkirk at SPRO.NET  Sat Oct 31 17:51:07 2009
From: jkirk at SPRO.NET (JKirkpatrick)
Date: Sat, 31 Oct 09 11:51:07 -0600
Subject: yugas and colours
In-Reply-To: <86E19A26-D5CE-4A89-A9F6-A04C1512BE34@berkeley.edu>
Message-ID: <161227087771.23782.11408232389058185345.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

 
Thanks.
JK
=================


Of course it's CE, not BCE.  None of the Tamil works can be dated
to BCE -- though we do have inscriptions from the first couple
centuries BCE.

The Tamil is

  paaz ena kaal ena paaku ena onRu ena pari.3-77
  iraNTu ena muunRu ena naanku ena aintu ena pari.3-78
  aaRu ena eezu ena eTTu ena toNTu ena pari.3-79
  naalvakai uuzi eN naviRRum ciRappinai pari.3-80
  ce kaN kaari karu kaN veLLai pari.3-81
  pon kaN paccai pai kaN maaal pari.3-82

(Malten's transcription)

"Black" is from kaari, ultimately from karu, the standard word
for "black."  "Dark" is maal, which can mean "blackness" or
"greatness,"  
"great man," "Visnu."  "Dark one with green eyes" could also mean
"Green-eyed Visnu!" -- which might make more sense, as "black"
has already been used.  The word for "green" can also mean
"yellow."

George Hart

On Oct 31, 2009, at 8:00 AM, JKirkpatrick wrote:

> I'm curious as to what are the words for "black" and "dark" in
this 
> typology?
> The usual colors cropping up in such typologies are white, red,

> yellow, and blue/green/black.
>
> JK
> =============
>
> On Behalf Of George Hart
> Sent: Saturday, October 31, 2009 8:04 AM
>
>
> From ParipaTal 3, about the 3rd or 4th century BCE:
>
> Your wonder is such that you are counted through four kinds of
> eons: zero, quarter, half, one, two three, four, five, six,
seven, 
> eight, nine!  Black one with red eyes!  White one with black
eyes!  
> Green one with golden eyes!  Dark one with green eyes!
>
> George Hart
>
> On Oct 30, 2009, at 11:10 PM, Dominic Goodall wrote:
>
>> Dear all,
>>
>> Can anybody tell me whether the notion that Vi.s.nu changes
> colour in
>> each yuga predates the Bhaagavatapuraa.na?
>>
>> BhP_10.08.013/1 aasan var.naas trayo hy asya g.rh.nato
> 'nuyuga.m
>> tanuu.h
>> BhP_10.08.013/3 "suklo raktas tathaa piita idaanii.m
> k.r.s.nataa.m
>> gata.h
>>
>> I find it in a few passages excluded from the critical text of
> the
>> Mahaabhaarata, e.g.
>>
>> 13*0002_01 ya.h "svetatvam upaagata.h k.rtayuge tretaayuge
> raktataa.m
>> 13*0002_02 yugme ya.h kapila.h kalau sa bhagavaan k.r.s.natvam

>> abhyaagata.h
>>
>> Does anybody know of any demonstrably early references?
>>
>> Dominic Goodall




From reimann at BERKELEY.EDU  Sat Oct 31 20:30:24 2009
From: reimann at BERKELEY.EDU (Luis Gonzalez-Reimann)
Date: Sat, 31 Oct 09 13:30:24 -0700
Subject: yugas and colours
In-Reply-To: <4AEC900F.60205@uni-hamburg.de>
Message-ID: <161227087779.23782.2571387029586329572.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

The colors in 3.148, mentioned by Harunaga, are:

Krta: white
Treta: red
Dvapara: yellow
Kali: black

But there is a different version in Mbh 3.187.31:

Krta: white
Treta: yellow
Dvapara: red
Kali: black

Where the colors for Treta and Dvapara are reversed.

I discuss this in my book /The Mahabharata and the Yugas/ (pp. 103, 
114-116).

Luis Gonz?lez-Reimann
_____

on 10/31/2009 12:29 PM Harunaga Isaacson wrote:
> And it is in the MBh, not only in passages excluded from the critical 
> edition (such as that which DG
> quoted), but also in 3.148 ("sukla in vs. 16, rakta in 23, piita in 
> 26, and k.r.s.na in 33).
>
> Harunaga Isaacson
>
>
> Peter Bisschop wrote:
>> It is found in the Vi.s.nudharma (edition R. Gruenendahl):
>> 104.27 ("sukla), 104.35 (rakta), 104.38 (piita), 104.45 (k.r.s.na)
>>
>> Peter Bisschop
>>
>> Quoting Dominic Goodall <dominic.goodall at GMAIL.COM>:
>>
>>> Dear all,
>>>
>>> Can anybody tell me whether the notion that Vi.s.nu changes colour in
>>> each yuga predates the Bhaagavatapuraa.na?
>>>
>>> BhP_10.08.013/1 aasan var.naas trayo hy asya g.rh.nato 'nuyuga.m 
>>> tanuu.h
>>> BhP_10.08.013/3 "suklo raktas tathaa piita idaanii.m k.r.s.nataa.m 
>>> gata.h
>>>
>>> I find it in a few passages excluded from the critical text of the
>>> Mahaabhaarata, e.g.
>>>
>>> 13*0002_01 ya.h "svetatvam upaagata.h k.rtayuge tretaayuge raktataa.m
>>> 13*0002_02 yugme ya.h kapila.h kalau sa bhagavaan k.r.s.natvam 
>>> abhyaagata.h
>>>
>>> Does anybody know of any demonstrably early references?
>>>
>>> Dominic Goodall
>>
>>
>>
>
>




From jean-luc.chevillard at UNIV-PARIS-DIDEROT.FR  Sat Oct 31 14:38:50 2009
From: jean-luc.chevillard at UNIV-PARIS-DIDEROT.FR (Jean-Luc Chevillard)
Date: Sat, 31 Oct 09 15:38:50 +0100
Subject: yugas and colours
In-Reply-To: <0B1854C6-BEDF-4B6E-B0DD-728B0493BDEE@berkeley.edu>
Message-ID: <161227087759.23782.11561938535016148448.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Dear George,

I suppose this is a /lapsus calami/
and you meant "CE" (and not "BC").

Zvelebil, in his /Lexicon of Tamil Literature/ [1995:528], summarizing 
discussions on the date of Parip??al,
writes:

"Prob. date between latter half of 4th and first half of the 6th c."

Best wishes

-- Jean-Luc

George Hart a ?crit :
> From ParipaTal 3, about the 3rd or 4th century BCE:
>
> Your wonder is such that you are counted
> through four kinds of eons: zero, quarter, half, one, two
> three, four, five, six, seven, eight, nine! Black one
> with red eyes! White one with black eyes! Green one
> with golden eyes! Dark one with green eyes!
>
> George Hart
>
> On Oct 30, 2009, at 11:10 PM, Dominic Goodall wrote:
>
>> Dear all,
>>
>> Can anybody tell me whether the notion that Vi.s.nu changes colour in 
>> each yuga predates the Bhaagavatapuraa.na?
>>
>> BhP_10.08.013/1 aasan var.naas trayo hy asya g.rh.nato 'nuyuga.m tanuu.h
>> BhP_10.08.013/3 "suklo raktas tathaa piita idaanii.m k.r.s.nataa.m 
>> gata.h
>>
>> I find it in a few passages excluded from the critical text of the 
>> Mahaabhaarata, e.g.
>>
>> 13*0002_01 ya.h "svetatvam upaagata.h k.rtayuge tretaayuge raktataa.m
>> 13*0002_02 yugme ya.h kapila.h kalau sa bhagavaan k.r.s.natvam 
>> abhyaagata.h
>>
>> Does anybody know of any demonstrably early references?
>>
>> Dominic Goodall
>




From reimann at BERKELEY.EDU  Sat Oct 31 23:00:22 2009
From: reimann at BERKELEY.EDU (Luis Gonzalez-Reimann)
Date: Sat, 31 Oct 09 16:00:22 -0700
Subject: yugas and colours
In-Reply-To: <4AECA794.2010707@columbia.edu>
Message-ID: <161227087785.23782.17499727396975470576.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

This is interesting. The /Vayu Purana/ (1.32.14-19) had already said 
that kAla (time) had four faces, which are the yugas. It doesn't 
associate them with the directions, but it does mention the colors.

Luis Gonz?lez-Reimann
_____

on 10/31/2009 2:09 PM Tenzin Bob Thurman wrote:
> Just noticed this discussion, and it brought to mind the not unrelated 
> fact that the faces of the Buddha Kaalachakra and the dirctional 
> colors in his mandala palace are precisely those, front-east black, 
> right-south red, back-west yellow, left-north white. ince his body is 
> supposed to represent all the "parts" of time, fitting that his faces 
> represent the yugas.
>
> That mandala is the only one in the Tibetan collection that I know of 
> that uses those colors for the faces and directions.
>
> Bob Thurman
>
>
> Luis Gonzalez-Reimann wrote:
>> The colors in 3.148, mentioned by Harunaga, are:
>>
>> Krta: white
>> Treta: red
>> Dvapara: yellow
>> Kali: black
>>
>> But there is a different version in Mbh 3.187.31:
>>
>> Krta: white
>> Treta: yellow
>> Dvapara: red
>> Kali: black
>>
>> Where the colors for Treta and Dvapara are reversed.
>>
>> I discuss this in my book /The Mahabharata and the Yugas/ (pp. 103, 
>> 114-116).
>>
>> Luis Gonz?lez-Reimann
>> _____
>>
>> on 10/31/2009 12:29 PM Harunaga Isaacson wrote:
>>> And it is in the MBh, not only in passages excluded from the 
>>> critical edition (such as that which DG
>>> quoted), but also in 3.148 ("sukla in vs. 16, rakta in 23, piita in 
>>> 26, and k.r.s.na in 33).
>>>
>>> Harunaga Isaacson
>>>
>>>
>>> Peter Bisschop wrote:
>>>> It is found in the Vi.s.nudharma (edition R. Gruenendahl):
>>>> 104.27 ("sukla), 104.35 (rakta), 104.38 (piita), 104.45 (k.r.s.na)
>>>>
>>>> Peter Bisschop
>>>>
>>>> Quoting Dominic Goodall <dominic.goodall at GMAIL.COM>:
>>>>
>>>>> Dear all,
>>>>>
>>>>> Can anybody tell me whether the notion that Vi.s.nu changes colour in
>>>>> each yuga predates the Bhaagavatapuraa.na?
>>>>>
>>>>> BhP_10.08.013/1 aasan var.naas trayo hy asya g.rh.nato 'nuyuga.m 
>>>>> tanuu.h
>>>>> BhP_10.08.013/3 "suklo raktas tathaa piita idaanii.m k.r.s.nataa.m 
>>>>> gata.h
>>>>>
>>>>> I find it in a few passages excluded from the critical text of the
>>>>> Mahaabhaarata, e.g.
>>>>>
>>>>> 13*0002_01 ya.h "svetatvam upaagata.h k.rtayuge tretaayuge raktataa.m
>>>>> 13*0002_02 yugme ya.h kapila.h kalau sa bhagavaan k.r.s.natvam 
>>>>> abhyaagata.h
>>>>>
>>>>> Does anybody know of any demonstrably early references?
>>>>>
>>>>> Dominic Goodall
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>




From reimann at BERKELEY.EDU  Sat Oct 31 23:13:20 2009
From: reimann at BERKELEY.EDU (Luis Gonzalez-Reimann)
Date: Sat, 31 Oct 09 16:13:20 -0700
Subject: yugas and colours
In-Reply-To: <790675.42435.qm@web8607.mail.in.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <161227087789.23782.634430945091858527.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

But Mitchiner dates the Yuga Purana to the 1st century BCE, not the 5th 
century CE. Pingree dates it to the same century as Mitchiner, or 
possibly to the following one.

Luis Gonz?lez-Reimann
_____

on 10/31/2009 10:11 AM Dipak Bhattacharya wrote:
> It is all right that the century belongs to the CE. Still a southern claim to the origin of the idea is not, perhaps, reduced by that. I checked the Yugapur??a (edMitchiner, AS,Calcutta1986 BI 312).but did not find any reference to the colour of the yugas. That means the absence of the idea in the North till the 5th Cent.CE (YP so dated/Mitchiner). The extant Bh?gavata could not have been redacted in the North. Its flowery classical k?vya style was a dead thing in the North during the time when it is supposed to have been redacted from a lost older Bh?gavata. The South can make a strong claim.
> Best 
> DB
>
> ________________________________
> From: George Hart <glhart at BERKELEY.EDU>
> To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk
> Sent: Sat, 31 October, 2009 9:23:40 PM
> Subject: Re: yugas and colours
>
> Of course it's CE, not BCE.  None of the Tamil works can be dated to BCE -- though we do have inscriptions from the first couple centuries BCE.
>
> The Tamil is
>
> paaz ena kaal ena paaku ena onRu ena pari.3-77
> iraNTu ena muunRu ena naanku ena aintu ena pari.3-78
> aaRu ena eezu ena eTTu ena toNTu ena pari.3-79
> naalvakai uuzi eN naviRRum ciRappinai pari.3-80
> ce kaN kaari karu kaN veLLai pari.3-81
> pon kaN paccai pai kaN maaal pari.3-82
>
> (Malten's transcription)
>
> "Black" is from kaari, ultimately from karu, the standard word for "black."  "Dark" is maal, which can mean "blackness" or "greatness," "great man," "Visnu."  "Dark one with green eyes" could also mean "Green-eyed Visnu!" -- which might make more sense, as "black" has already been used.  The word for "green" can also mean "yellow."
>
> George Hart
>
> On Oct 31, 2009, at 8:00 AM, JKirkpatrick wrote:
>
>   
>> I'm curious as to what are the words for "black" and "dark" in
>> this typology?
>> The usual colors cropping up in such typologies are white, red,
>> yellow, and blue/green/black.
>>
>> JK
>> =============
>>
>> On Behalf Of George Hart
>> Sent: Saturday, October 31, 2009 8:04 AM
>>
>>
>> From ParipaTal 3, about the 3rd or 4th century BCE:
>>
>> Your wonder is such that you are counted through four kinds of
>> eons: zero, quarter, half, one, two three, four, five, six,
>> seven, eight, nine!  Black one with red eyes!  White one with
>> black eyes!  Green one with golden eyes!  Dark one with green
>> eyes!
>>
>> George Hart
>>
>> On Oct 30, 2009, at 11:10 PM, Dominic Goodall wrote:
>>
>>     
>>> Dear all,
>>>
>>> Can anybody tell me whether the notion that Vi.s.nu changes
>>>       
>> colour in
>>     
>>> each yuga predates the Bhaagavatapuraa.na?
>>>
>>> BhP_10.08.013/1 aasan var.naas trayo hy asya g.rh.nato
>>>       
>> 'nuyuga.m
>>     
>>> tanuu.h
>>> BhP_10.08.013/3 "suklo raktas tathaa piita idaanii.m
>>>       
>> k.r.s.nataa.m
>>     
>>> gata.h
>>>
>>> I find it in a few passages excluded from the critical text of
>>>       
>> the
>>     
>>> Mahaabhaarata, e.g.
>>>
>>> 13*0002_01 ya.h "svetatvam upaagata.h k.rtayuge tretaayuge
>>>       
>> raktataa.m
>>     
>>> 13*0002_02 yugme ya.h kapila.h kalau sa bhagavaan k.r.s.natvam
>>> abhyaagata.h
>>>
>>> Does anybody know of any demonstrably early references?
>>>
>>> Dominic Goodall
>>>       
>
>
>
>       Try the new Yahoo! India Homepage. Click here. http://in.yahoo.com/trynew
>
>   




From tbt7 at COLUMBIA.EDU  Sat Oct 31 21:09:40 2009
From: tbt7 at COLUMBIA.EDU (Tenzin Bob Thurman)
Date: Sat, 31 Oct 09 17:09:40 -0400
Subject: yugas and colours
In-Reply-To: <4AEC9E60.5030803@berkeley.edu>
Message-ID: <161227087782.23782.17962171056682218953.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Just noticed this discussion, and it brought to mind the not unrelated 
fact that the faces of the Buddha Kaalachakra and the dirctional colors 
in his mandala palace are precisely those, front-east black, right-south 
red, back-west yellow, left-north white. ince his body is supposed to 
represent all the "parts" of time, fitting that his faces represent the 
yugas.

That mandala is the only one in the Tibetan collection that I know of 
that uses those colors for the faces and directions.

Bob Thurman


Luis Gonzalez-Reimann wrote:
> The colors in 3.148, mentioned by Harunaga, are:
>
> Krta: white
> Treta: red
> Dvapara: yellow
> Kali: black
>
> But there is a different version in Mbh 3.187.31:
>
> Krta: white
> Treta: yellow
> Dvapara: red
> Kali: black
>
> Where the colors for Treta and Dvapara are reversed.
>
> I discuss this in my book /The Mahabharata and the Yugas/ (pp. 103, 
> 114-116).
>
> Luis Gonz?lez-Reimann
> _____
>
> on 10/31/2009 12:29 PM Harunaga Isaacson wrote:
>> And it is in the MBh, not only in passages excluded from the critical 
>> edition (such as that which DG
>> quoted), but also in 3.148 ("sukla in vs. 16, rakta in 23, piita in 
>> 26, and k.r.s.na in 33).
>>
>> Harunaga Isaacson
>>
>>
>> Peter Bisschop wrote:
>>> It is found in the Vi.s.nudharma (edition R. Gruenendahl):
>>> 104.27 ("sukla), 104.35 (rakta), 104.38 (piita), 104.45 (k.r.s.na)
>>>
>>> Peter Bisschop
>>>
>>> Quoting Dominic Goodall <dominic.goodall at GMAIL.COM>:
>>>
>>>> Dear all,
>>>>
>>>> Can anybody tell me whether the notion that Vi.s.nu changes colour in
>>>> each yuga predates the Bhaagavatapuraa.na?
>>>>
>>>> BhP_10.08.013/1 aasan var.naas trayo hy asya g.rh.nato 'nuyuga.m 
>>>> tanuu.h
>>>> BhP_10.08.013/3 "suklo raktas tathaa piita idaanii.m k.r.s.nataa.m 
>>>> gata.h
>>>>
>>>> I find it in a few passages excluded from the critical text of the
>>>> Mahaabhaarata, e.g.
>>>>
>>>> 13*0002_01 ya.h "svetatvam upaagata.h k.rtayuge tretaayuge raktataa.m
>>>> 13*0002_02 yugme ya.h kapila.h kalau sa bhagavaan k.r.s.natvam 
>>>> abhyaagata.h
>>>>
>>>> Does anybody know of any demonstrably early references?
>>>>
>>>> Dominic Goodall
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
>




From Palaniappa at AOL.COM  Sat Oct 31 23:08:31 2009
From: Palaniappa at AOL.COM (Sudalaimuthu Palaniappan)
Date: Sat, 31 Oct 09 19:08:31 -0400
Subject: yugas and colours
Message-ID: <161227087787.23782.315315784319649240.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

 
We have to distinguish between the date of individual poems and the date of 
 the anthologies. The chronology of Classical Tamil Poetry and the books of 
 Tolkappiyam need to be revisited in light of new evidence.
 
Iravatham Mahadevan's dating/staging of Tamil Brahmi I and Tamil  Brahmi II 
in his "Early Tamil Epigraphy" has been revised now. Mahadevan also  agrees 
with the revision. See p. 213 in "Pottery Inscriptions of Tamil Nadu - A  
Comparative View" by Y. Subbarayalu in  ,Airavati, Varalaaru.com,  2008, 
p.209-248. Subbarayalu  also says Tamil Brahmi II and Tamil Brahmi  III need to 
be considered as belonging to the same stage. 
 
Subbarayalu's note "If the TB-I/TB-II classification loses its  
chronological basis, then Mahadevan's dates given to the rock inscriptions, at  least 
to some, on the basis of this classification would need some revision. For  
instance, the Jambai inscription of Atiyan Nedumaan A~nci, which is assigned 
by  Mahadevan (2003, p.399) to first century CE should be more appropriately 
put in  about 200 BCE or even earlier. However his overall dating does not 
suffer as it  is supported by other pieces of evidence" is very important 
for dating the Tamil  poems. Atiyan Nedumaan A~nci is the hero praised in many 
Classical Tamil  poems.
 
Also, in light of the Tamil confederacy mentioned in Hathigumpha  
inscription (1st century BCE) as well as suggested by Akam 31, which I had  discussed 
in the list earlier, we have to evaluate the possibility of some poems  to 
be dated at least to the first century BCE. (We can  safely disregard the 
theory of Pandyan kings organizing a number of poets  to cook up/invent 
Classical Tamil poetry in the 9th/10th century CE.) 
 
With respect to the dating of Tolkappiyam, in his "Early Tamil Epigraphy",  
Mahadevan had failed to take into account an important paper by Rajam  
Ramamurti,in IJDL."The Relevance of the Terms mey, o_r_ru, and pu.l.li to the  
System of Tamil Morpho-Phonemics," IJDL, V. 9, no. 1, 1982, 167-183. I 
pointed  this out during Mahadevan's book release event at Harvard in 2003. .The 
point is  the date of at least the first book of Tolkappiyam should most 
probably  precede any occurrence of the dotted consonant in epigraphy. (I have a 
 draft of a note discussing this but never got around to publishing it.). 
.
It will be interesting to see if this reevaluation of dating of  Classical 
Tamil poems has any impact on the date of individual poems in  Paripaa.tal 
too.
 
Regards,
Palaniappan
 
 
In a message dated 10/31/2009 10:54:09 A.M. Central Daylight Time,  
glhart at BERKELEY.EDU writes:

Of  course it's CE, not BCE.  None of the Tamil works can be dated to   
BCE -- though we do have inscriptions from the first couple  centuries  
BCE.

The Tamil is

paaz ena kaal ena  paaku ena onRu ena pari.3-77
iraNTu ena muunRu ena naanku ena aintu  ena pari.3-78
aaRu ena eezu ena eTTu ena toNTu ena  pari.3-79
naalvakai uuzi eN naviRRum ciRappinai pari.3-80
ce kaN kaari karu kaN veLLai pari.3-81
pon kaN paccai pai kaN maaal  pari.3-82

(Malten's transcription)

"Black" is from kaari,  ultimately from karu, the standard word for  
"black."  "Dark" is  maal, which can mean "blackness" or "greatness,"  
"great man,"  "Visnu."  "Dark one with green eyes" could also mean   
"Green-eyed Visnu!" -- which might make more sense, as "black" has   
already been used.  The word for "green" can also mean  "yellow."

George Hart

On Oct 31, 2009, at 8:00 AM, JKirkpatrick  wrote:

> I'm curious as to what are the words for "black" and "dark"  in
> this typology?
> The usual colors cropping up in such  typologies are white, red,
> yellow, and  blue/green/black.
>
> JK
> =============
>
> On  Behalf Of George Hart
> Sent: Saturday, October 31, 2009 8:04  AM
>
>
> From ParipaTal 3, about the 3rd or 4th century  BCE:
>
> Your wonder is such that you are counted through four  kinds of
> eons: zero, quarter, half, one, two three, four, five,  six,
> seven, eight, nine!  Black one with red eyes!  White  one with
> black eyes!  Green one with golden eyes!  Dark one  with green
> eyes!
>
> George Hart
>
> On Oct  30, 2009, at 11:10 PM, Dominic Goodall wrote:
>
>> Dear  all,
>>
>> Can anybody tell me whether the notion that  Vi.s.nu changes
> colour in
>> each yuga predates the  Bhaagavatapuraa.na?
>>
>> BhP_10.08.013/1 aasan var.naas  trayo hy asya g.rh.nato
> 'nuyuga.m
>> tanuu.h
>>  BhP_10.08.013/3 "suklo raktas tathaa piita idaanii.m
>  k.r.s.nataa.m
>> gata.h
>>
>> I find it in a few  passages excluded from the critical text of
> the
>>  Mahaabhaarata, e.g.
>>
>> 13*0002_01 ya.h "svetatvam  upaagata.h k.rtayuge tretaayuge
> raktataa.m
>> 13*0002_02  yugme ya.h kapila.h kalau sa bhagavaan k.r.s.natvam
>>  abhyaagata.h
>>
>> Does anybody know of any demonstrably  early references?
>>
>> Dominic  Goodall




From Peter.Bisschop at ED.AC.UK  Sat Oct 31 19:13:06 2009
From: Peter.Bisschop at ED.AC.UK (Peter Bisschop)
Date: Sat, 31 Oct 09 19:13:06 +0000
Subject: yugas and colours
In-Reply-To: <8CA1900E-45FF-4842-83EA-25F4589F72D6@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <161227087774.23782.602257112282969956.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

It is found in the Vi.s.nudharma (edition R. Gruenendahl):
104.27 ("sukla), 104.35 (rakta), 104.38 (piita), 104.45 (k.r.s.na)

Peter Bisschop

Quoting Dominic Goodall <dominic.goodall at GMAIL.COM>:

> Dear all,
>
> Can anybody tell me whether the notion that Vi.s.nu changes colour in
> each yuga predates the Bhaagavatapuraa.na?
>
> BhP_10.08.013/1 aasan var.naas trayo hy asya g.rh.nato 'nuyuga.m tanuu.h
> BhP_10.08.013/3 "suklo raktas tathaa piita idaanii.m k.r.s.nataa.m gata.h
>
> I find it in a few passages excluded from the critical text of the
> Mahaabhaarata, e.g.
>
> 13*0002_01 ya.h "svetatvam upaagata.h k.rtayuge tretaayuge raktataa.m
> 13*0002_02 yugme ya.h kapila.h kalau sa bhagavaan k.r.s.natvam abhyaagata.h
>
> Does anybody know of any demonstrably early references?
>
> Dominic Goodall



-- 
The University of Edinburgh is a charitable body, registered in
Scotland, with registration number SC005336.




From Harunaga.Isaacson at UNI-HAMBURG.DE  Sat Oct 31 19:29:19 2009
From: Harunaga.Isaacson at UNI-HAMBURG.DE (Harunaga Isaacson)
Date: Sat, 31 Oct 09 20:29:19 +0100
Subject: yugas and colours
In-Reply-To: <20091031191306.fvn70z3hpcco0o04@www.staffmail.ed.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <161227087776.23782.2334012425307442992.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

And it is in the MBh, not only in passages excluded from the critical 
edition (such as that which DG
quoted), but also in 3.148 ("sukla in vs. 16, rakta in 23, piita in 26, 
and k.r.s.na in 33).

Harunaga Isaacson


Peter Bisschop wrote:
> It is found in the Vi.s.nudharma (edition R. Gruenendahl):
> 104.27 ("sukla), 104.35 (rakta), 104.38 (piita), 104.45 (k.r.s.na)
>
> Peter Bisschop
>
> Quoting Dominic Goodall <dominic.goodall at GMAIL.COM>:
>
>> Dear all,
>>
>> Can anybody tell me whether the notion that Vi.s.nu changes colour in
>> each yuga predates the Bhaagavatapuraa.na?
>>
>> BhP_10.08.013/1 aasan var.naas trayo hy asya g.rh.nato 'nuyuga.m tanuu.h
>> BhP_10.08.013/3 "suklo raktas tathaa piita idaanii.m k.r.s.nataa.m 
>> gata.h
>>
>> I find it in a few passages excluded from the critical text of the
>> Mahaabhaarata, e.g.
>>
>> 13*0002_01 ya.h "svetatvam upaagata.h k.rtayuge tretaayuge raktataa.m
>> 13*0002_02 yugme ya.h kapila.h kalau sa bhagavaan k.r.s.natvam 
>> abhyaagata.h
>>
>> Does anybody know of any demonstrably early references?
>>
>> Dominic Goodall
>
>
>


-- 
Prof. Dr. Harunaga Isaacson
Universit?t Hamburg
Asien-Afrika-Institut
Abteilung f?r Kultur und Geschichte Indiens und Tibets
Alsterterrasse 1
D-20354
Hamburg
Germany
tel. +49 (0)40 42838-3382
Alternative email: harunagaisaacson at gmail.com




From dbhattacharya2004 at YAHOO.CO.IN  Sat Oct 31 17:11:27 2009
From: dbhattacharya2004 at YAHOO.CO.IN (Dipak Bhattacharya)
Date: Sat, 31 Oct 09 22:41:27 +0530
Subject: yugas and colours
In-Reply-To: <86E19A26-D5CE-4A89-A9F6-A04C1512BE34@berkeley.edu>
Message-ID: <161227087768.23782.12201289708399506916.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

It is all right that the century belongs to the CE. Still?a southern?claim to the origin of the idea is not, perhaps, reduced by that. I checked the Yugapur??a (edMitchiner, AS,Calcutta1986 BI 312).but did not find any reference to the colour of the yugas. That means the absence of the idea?in the North till the 5th Cent.CE (YP so dated/Mitchiner). The extant Bh?gavata could not have been redacted in the North. Its flowery classical k?vya style was a dead thing in the North during the time when it is supposed to have been redacted from?a?lost older Bh?gavata. The South can make a strong claim.
Best 
DB

________________________________
From: George Hart <glhart at BERKELEY.EDU>
To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk
Sent: Sat, 31 October, 2009 9:23:40 PM
Subject: Re: yugas and colours

Of course it's CE, not BCE.? None of the Tamil works can be dated to BCE -- though we do have inscriptions from the first couple centuries BCE.

The Tamil is

paaz ena kaal ena paaku ena onRu ena pari.3-77
iraNTu ena muunRu ena naanku ena aintu ena pari.3-78
aaRu ena eezu ena eTTu ena toNTu ena pari.3-79
naalvakai uuzi eN naviRRum ciRappinai pari.3-80
ce kaN kaari karu kaN veLLai pari.3-81
pon kaN paccai pai kaN maaal pari.3-82

(Malten's transcription)

"Black" is from kaari, ultimately from karu, the standard word for "black."? "Dark" is maal, which can mean "blackness" or "greatness," "great man," "Visnu."? "Dark one with green eyes" could also mean "Green-eyed Visnu!" -- which might make more sense, as "black" has already been used.? The word for "green" can also mean "yellow."

George Hart

On Oct 31, 2009, at 8:00 AM, JKirkpatrick wrote:

> I'm curious as to what are the words for "black" and "dark" in
> this typology?
> The usual colors cropping up in such typologies are white, red,
> yellow, and blue/green/black.
> 
> JK
> =============
> 
> On Behalf Of George Hart
> Sent: Saturday, October 31, 2009 8:04 AM
> 
> 
> From ParipaTal 3, about the 3rd or 4th century BCE:
> 
> Your wonder is such that you are counted through four kinds of
> eons: zero, quarter, half, one, two three, four, five, six,
> seven, eight, nine!? Black one with red eyes!? White one with
> black eyes!? Green one with golden eyes!? Dark one with green
> eyes!
> 
> George Hart
> 
> On Oct 30, 2009, at 11:10 PM, Dominic Goodall wrote:
> 
>> Dear all,
>> 
>> Can anybody tell me whether the notion that Vi.s.nu changes
> colour in
>> each yuga predates the Bhaagavatapuraa.na?
>> 
>> BhP_10.08.013/1 aasan var.naas trayo hy asya g.rh.nato
> 'nuyuga.m
>> tanuu.h
>> BhP_10.08.013/3 "suklo raktas tathaa piita idaanii.m
> k.r.s.nataa.m
>> gata.h
>> 
>> I find it in a few passages excluded from the critical text of
> the
>> Mahaabhaarata, e.g.
>> 
>> 13*0002_01 ya.h "svetatvam upaagata.h k.rtayuge tretaayuge
> raktataa.m
>> 13*0002_02 yugme ya.h kapila.h kalau sa bhagavaan k.r.s.natvam
>> abhyaagata.h
>> 
>> Does anybody know of any demonstrably early references?
>> 
>> Dominic Goodall



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