On the origin of the aaryaa meter (Re: Choice of meter for writing a treatise: s'loka vs. aaryaa

[George Hart]

K. R. Norman believed that the clear resemblance of Arya to an old  
Tamil meter called veNpaa, something I described in my book, was  
illusory and that there was no Tamil influence in its development.  See

http://www.ancient-buddhist-texts.net/Textual-Studies/Prosody-Articles/Norman-Arya.htm

I think Prof. Norman's discussion is a bit unfair to me, as I did not  
claim there was Tamil influence, but rather that the Tamil works use  
meters that must be very old in Dravidian and that Arya probably  
developed under the influence of such meters, though almost certainly  
not in Tamil Nadu.  One can suppose that old Dravidian meters were  
used in oral literature in villages that spoke or had spoken Dravidian  
languages and that Arya and other matra meters developed from them.   
While we have a good idea of meters and poetic technique in old Tamil  
-- and they are almost frighteningly complex -- no one to my knowledge  
has looked at other Dravidian languages including some of the "tribal"  
languages of the north and given us a picture of use of meter in all  
such traditions.  In any event, if one is interested in the  
development of Arya and similar meters, it is very much worthwhile to  
look at old Tamil, as the resemblance between veNpaa and arya is  
remarkable.  George Hart

On Jul 11, 2009, at 4:06 AM, Jean-Luc Chevillard wrote:

> I have received two reactions to that message of mine (dated 2009  
> may 31) [see below].
>
> In one of the 2 messages, I was asked whether I had received an answer
> and I answered  back that it had probably not been realistic on my  
> part
> to expect that someone might explain
> the "why-did-it-happen?" side of my question  :-)
>
> Usually,
> the more reasonable task to set to oneself
> is simply to collect the data
> [the "what-happened?" side]
> and to do some statistics.
>
> However, the second message contained some very useful information.
>
> I am glad to discover, thanks to Whitney Cox, from SOAS,
> that K.R. Norman has discussed the origin and the popularity of the  
> āryā meter
> in a paper "The Origins of the āryā metre",
> which is included as item 79 in his Collected Papers IV,
> London: Pali Text Society, 1993, pp. 20-35 .
>
> That paper was originally published in /Buddhist Philosophy and  
> Culture: Essays in Honour of N.A.Jayawikrema/.
> Columbo 1987, pp. 203-214.).
>
> Interestingly, K.R. Norman discusses some of the theses which George  
> Hart has put forward in his 1975 book,
> /The Poems of Ancient Tamil: their milieu and their Sanskrit  
> counterpart/, University of California Press.
>
> I understand, by reading Norman's article,
> and from Whitney's suggestions for further reading,
> that I won't be able to progress in my global understanding of the  
> question
> (i.e. "Meters in India and their popularity")
> until I try to read A. K. Warder's 1967 book /Pali Metre/
> and a number of other books and articles.
>
> I hope this information will be useful to some.
>
> -- Jean-Luc Chevillard (Paris)
>
>
> Jean-Luc Chevillard a écrit :
>> Dear list members,
>>
>> being engaged in a study of the popularity of various meters in the  
>> Tamil speaking world,
>> I would welcome informations on the reasons (or the background)
>> for the choice of meter while writing a treatise in Sanskrit.
>>
>> Are there for instance
>> articles/books examining, explaining or suggesting reasons why the  
>> Vākyapadīya was composed in śloka-s
>> whereas the Sāṃkhyakārikā was composed in āryā?
>> (I hope I am not mistaken)
>>
>> Is this simply a consequence of the date of their compositions?
>>
>> Thanks for any pointers
>>
>> -- Jean-Luc Chevillard (Paris)
>>