From jhakgirish at YAHOO.COM  Thu Jan  1 01:30:49 2009
From: jhakgirish at YAHOO.COM (girish jha)
Date: Wed, 31 Dec 08 17:30:49 -0800
Subject: New Year Greet
Message-ID: <161227084361.23782.13197659145444558723.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Dear Colleagues,
Navavarsam madhumayam.
?
Sarasy?m ambhojam? ?i?iramathitam? ks??n?asus?amam?
?il?khand?otks?iptam? kalakalamayam? nirjharajalam?.
pip?s?santapto himasalilabh?to?pi ca khago
nar?n hin?sr?n sarvo di?ati navavars?am? madhumayam?.
?
Navody?ne pus?pam? kirati makarandam? surabhitam?
lat? ku?jam? gu?janmadhupavihag?hl?dajananam?.
amandam? svacchandam? vicarati mr?go y?tharaman?o
nir?tan?kam? g?tam? dhvanati navavars?am? ?ubhamayam?.
?
Please accept my very best wishes for a happy,terrorless and spiritual New Year.
Sincerely
GIRISH K. JHA
SANSKRIT,PATNA UNIVERSITY
Tel: +91 612 2664495
+91 9931490815


      




From mkmfolk at GMAIL.COM  Thu Jan  1 02:12:44 2009
From: mkmfolk at GMAIL.COM (Mahendra Kumar Mishra)
Date: Thu, 01 Jan 09 07:42:44 +0530
Subject: New Year Greet
In-Reply-To: <49003.6633.qm@web57707.mail.re3.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <161227084363.23782.6251932098445574525.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Dear Dr.Jha
Wish you  a HappyNew  year   best regards,mahendra


2009/1/1 girish jha <jhakgirish at yahoo.com>

> Dear Colleagues,
> Navavarsam madhumayam.
>
> Sarasy?m ambhojam? ?i?iramathitam? ks??n?asus?amam?
> ?il?khand?otks?iptam? kalakalamayam? nirjharajalam?.
> pip?s?santapto himasalilabh?to'pi ca khago
> nar?n hin?sr?n sarvo di?ati navavars?am? madhumayam?.
>
> Navody?ne pus?pam? kirati makarandam? surabhitam?
> lat? ku?jam? gu?janmadhupavihag?hl?dajananam?.
> amandam? svacchandam? vicarati mr?go y?tharaman?o
> nir?tan?kam? g?tam? dhvanati navavars?am? ?ubhamayam?.
>
> Please accept my very best wishes for a happy,terrorless and spiritual New
> Year.
> Sincerely
> GIRISH K. JHA
> SANSKRIT,PATNA UNIVERSITY
> Tel: +91 612 2664495
> +91 9931490815
>
>
>
>


-- 
Dr Mahendra Kumar Mishra
State  Tribal Education Coordinator,
Orissa Primary Education Programme Authority,
Unit- V Bhubaneswar 751001,India

Residential Address:
D-9 Flat  Kalpana Area  Bhubaneswar  751014,India
phone 91+674-2310167(r)
094376-36436(m)




From acollins at GCI.NET  Sun Jan  4 22:17:58 2009
From: acollins at GCI.NET (Alfred Collins)
Date: Sun, 04 Jan 09 13:17:58 -0900
Subject: navavars=?utf-8?Q?=CC=A3am=CC=A3?= madhumayam,              a transla tion and a request
In-Reply-To: <7fa4d0480812311812pb25a9c9o59fd8215279569bd@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <161227084365.23782.14147653099461798077.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Dear Dr. Jha and all,

Here is my poor and probably error-filled attempt at an English translation of the lovely poem, and a request to anyone who might be able to help in another matter:

As a Sanskritist avant l'Internet I am woefully ignorant of how to use web resources in Sanskrit. In particular I need help in accessing the text of the Rg Veda, Brahmanas, Upanisads, Mbh, and Samkhya-Yoga texts and commentaries on line, and with the Monier-Williams dictionary on line. Also the rudiments of how to do diacritics and Devanagari in email. (My research lies in the area of Indian psychology and philosophy of the self (both atman/purusa and ahamkara/abhimana/asmita types). What I would really like is to find a graduate student seeking a little work, whom I could employ at whatever is the appropriate rate of pay to guide me into this electronic vidya, perhaps over the next six months or so. Does anyone have a suggestion? Bhadram te, if so.

Al Collins

1. [fall to winter]
The beauty of the lotus in the pond dims, overwhelmed by ice,
The water of the mountain stream is hurled up with confused noise in the fissures of the rocks,
A bird, though afraid of the snowy water has drunk without distress:
All shows violent men how sweet is the New Year.

2. [winter to spring]
In the rising of the new (year) the lotus pours out sweet-smelling nectar,
The thicket of vines gives joy to birds that drink the honey of the gunja flower,
The deer wanders freely and actively, delighting in his troop:
The fearless song sounds out , (proclaiming) the beautiful New Year.




From acollins at GCI.NET  Sun Jan  4 23:00:53 2009
From: acollins at GCI.NET (Alfred Collins)
Date: Sun, 04 Jan 09 14:00:53 -0900
Subject: navavars=?utf-8?Q?=CC=A3am=CC=A3?= madhumayam,              a tra nsla tion and a request
In-Reply-To: <d2a8c9260901041445r2ba9d9e5pd924864cfb66e7dc@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <161227084372.23782.17365014506774614248.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Dear Victor,

Great. Let's talk more on it later.  For your information, I have two PhDs, both from the University of Texas Austin, one in psychology (my day job), the other in Sanskrit (my research interest, and love).  My article on philosophical Samkhya as a coded feminist narrative (more or less) was published in the Hiltebeitel/Erndl edited volume, Is the Goddess a Feminist?, 2001 or so (I have other publications, this is one you might just glance at sometime when in the library to see what I do).

I will look where you suggest, see what I need to talk about next, and maybe we could do it by Skype and email?

Thanks for replying,

Al




From vbd203 at GOOGLEMAIL.COM  Sun Jan  4 22:45:33 2009
From: vbd203 at GOOGLEMAIL.COM (victor davella)
Date: Sun, 04 Jan 09 14:45:33 -0800
Subject: navavars=?UTF-8?Q?=CC=A3am=CC=A3?= madhumayam,              a transla tion and a request
In-Reply-To: <fc445e6618a7.4960b706@gci.net>
Message-ID: <161227084368.23782.253491215802485064.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Dear Mr./Dr. (?) Collins,

I could help you out with your online Sanskrit queries.  I'm currently
enrolled in a PhD program at Columbia University in MEALAC.  I also have an
MPhil from Oxford in Indo-Iranian Linguistics.  If you are interest, please
let me know more about what exactly you need help with in addition to
accessing online texts which can be done quite easily on GRETIL
<http://www.sub.uni-goettingen.de/ebene_1/fiindolo/gretil.htm> and other
sites.  Monier Williams is availible here: MW
<http://www.sanskrit-lexicon.uni-koeln.de/monier/>and Apte's here:
APTE<http://www3.aa.tufs.ac.jp/%7Etjun/sktdic/>.
The usual going rate is about $25-$40 depending on what I would have to do.

All the Best,
Victor D'Avella

On Sun, Jan 4, 2009 at 2:17 PM, Alfred Collins <acollins at gci.net> wrote:

> Dear Dr. Jha and all,
>
> Here is my poor and probably error-filled attempt at an English translation
> of the lovely poem, and a request to anyone who might be able to help in
> another matter:
>
> As a Sanskritist avant l'Internet I am woefully ignorant of how to use web
> resources in Sanskrit. In particular I need help in accessing the text of
> the Rg Veda, Brahmanas, Upanisads, Mbh, and Samkhya-Yoga texts and
> commentaries on line, and with the Monier-Williams dictionary on line. Also
> the rudiments of how to do diacritics and Devanagari in email. (My research
> lies in the area of Indian psychology and philosophy of the self (both
> atman/purusa and ahamkara/abhimana/asmita types). What I would really like
> is to find a graduate student seeking a little work, whom I could employ at
> whatever is the appropriate rate of pay to guide me into this electronic
> vidya, perhaps over the next six months or so. Does anyone have a
> suggestion? Bhadram te, if so.
>
> Al Collins
>
> 1. [fall to winter]
> The beauty of the lotus in the pond dims, overwhelmed by ice,
> The water of the mountain stream is hurled up with confused noise in the
> fissures of the rocks,
> A bird, though afraid of the snowy water has drunk without distress:
> All shows violent men how sweet is the New Year.
>
> 2. [winter to spring]
> In the rising of the new (year) the lotus pours out sweet-smelling nectar,
> The thicket of vines gives joy to birds that drink the honey of the gunja
> flower,
> The deer wanders freely and actively, delighting in his troop:
> The fearless song sounds out , (proclaiming) the beautiful New Year.
>




From tbt7 at COLUMBIA.EDU  Sun Jan  4 23:41:34 2009
From: tbt7 at COLUMBIA.EDU (Tenzin Bob Thurman)
Date: Sun, 04 Jan 09 18:41:34 -0500
Subject: navavars=?UTF-8?Q?=CC=A3am=CC=A3?= madhumayam,              a tra nsla  tion and a request
In-Reply-To: <fc43b9132e07.4960c115@gci.net>
Message-ID: <161227084375.23782.11413017332214799484.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Dear Dr. COllins,
Is there a web-accessible pdf of that Goddess a Feminist article? I am 
intrigued, as my reading of the Samkhya is has come up with quite 
another conclusion, but I'm opebn to a fresh perspective.

Best
Bob Thurman

Alfred Collins wrote:
> Dear Victor,
>
> Great. Let's talk more on it later.  For your information, I have two PhDs, both from the University of Texas Austin, one in psychology (my day job), the other in Sanskrit (my research interest, and love).  My article on philosophical Samkhya as a coded feminist narrative (more or less) was published in the Hiltebeitel/Erndl edited volume, Is the Goddess a Feminist?, 2001 or so (I have other publications, this is one you might just glance at sometime when in the library to see what I do).
>
> I will look where you suggest, see what I need to talk about next, and maybe we could do it by Skype and email?
>
> Thanks for replying,
>
> Al
>
>
>   




From jmdelire at ULB.AC.BE  Mon Jan  5 09:49:49 2009
From: jmdelire at ULB.AC.BE (Jean-Michel Delire)
Date: Mon, 05 Jan 09 09:49:49 +0000
Subject: Accommodation in Pune in April 2009
Message-ID: <161227084377.23782.5750210232065467769.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Dear Jennifer,

When staying in Pune (Febr.-June 2006), we went to the Alliance Fran?aise and found a not too expansive room (with appending common kitchen and bathroom) let by the "Amis de la France", near FC (Fergusson College) Road. Another possibility is Svarup Hotel, in the Deccan Gymkhana, within walking distance of the BORI, but you need to book well in advance. I guess that accommodation is also possible in the premises of the University, especially during the summer holidays (usually beginning in April). 

Good luck,

Dr J.M.Delire,
Alta?r Centre for the History of Science, University of Brussels

>Greetings,
>
>I will be in Pune April 1st - May 6th 2009 to continue my Sanskrit
>translation with a Sanskrit Professor from Pune University. Can anyone
>please help me find accommodation - hotels are too expensive for that length
>of time and the Bhandarkar Institute is undergoing renovations. I would be
>happy to share an apartment/flat with other scholars.
>
>Happy New Year
>Dr Jennifer Cover
>Sydney
>Australia
>
>No virus found in this outgoing message.
>Checked by AVG. 
>Version: 7.5.552 / Virus Database: 270.10.2/1874 - Release Date: 4/01/2009
>4:32 PM
> 
>
>




From jenni.cover at URSYS.COM.AU  Sun Jan  4 22:56:49 2009
From: jenni.cover at URSYS.COM.AU (Jenni Cover)
Date: Mon, 05 Jan 09 09:56:49 +1100
Subject: Accommodation in Pune in April 2009
In-Reply-To: <fc445e6618a7.4960b706@gci.net>
Message-ID: <161227084370.23782.6243242750532628002.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Greetings,

I will be in Pune April 1st - May 6th 2009 to continue my Sanskrit
translation with a Sanskrit Professor from Pune University. Can anyone
please help me find accommodation - hotels are too expensive for that length
of time and the Bhandarkar Institute is undergoing renovations. I would be
happy to share an apartment/flat with other scholars.

Happy New Year
Dr Jennifer Cover
Sydney
Australia

No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG. 
Version: 7.5.552 / Virus Database: 270.10.2/1874 - Release Date: 4/01/2009
4:32 PM
 




From pwyzlic at UNI-BONN.DE  Mon Jan  5 23:17:18 2009
From: pwyzlic at UNI-BONN.DE (Peter Wyzlic)
Date: Tue, 06 Jan 09 00:17:18 +0100
Subject: New Publication on Bhavya
Message-ID: <161227084380.23782.8766341044040510964.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Dear all,

Annette Heitmann who is not on the list asked me to present her new  
book on Bhavya's Madhyamah?dayak?rik?. The title is:
Annette L. Heitmann: _Buddhistische Lehre Indiens: Textedition und - 
kritik von Bhavyas Madhyamakah?dayak?rik? I-III. Hamburg: Verlag  
Dr. Kova?, 2009
Series: Philologica, vol. 130
ISBN: 978-3-8300-4192-4

More information on the publisher's website: <http://www.verlagdrkovac.de/3-8300-4192-6.htm 
 >

All the best
Peter Wyzlic

--
Institut f?r Orient- und Asienwissenschaften
Abteilung f?r Indologie
Universit?t Bonn
Regina-Pacis-Weg 7
53113 Bonn




From r.mahoney at ICONZ.CO.NZ  Tue Jan  6 04:52:03 2009
From: r.mahoney at ICONZ.CO.NZ (Richard MAHONEY)
Date: Tue, 06 Jan 09 17:52:03 +1300
Subject: Digital version of Shastri's Manavadharmashastra
Message-ID: <161227084382.23782.9399433532829408143.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Dear Readers,

I was wondering if anyone might have access to a scanned digital
version of the following. I'm preparing a TEI version of the MDh and
need the edition before me to add references to sections, sub-sections,
pages &c.. (Canterbury doesn't hold it and I can't afford to wait the
several weeks it would take for a copy to arrive through a book seller
or interloan.) 


@BOOK{assign_key, 
ISBN = { 8120807650 },
ISBN = { 8120807669(: pbk) },
language = { san },
language = { eng },
author = { Manu. },
title = { Manusmr?ti? : ?r?Kull?kabha??aviracitay? Manvarthamukt?valy?
 vy?khyay? samupet?.  },
title = { Manusm?ti?  },
title = { Manusm?ti : with the Sanskrit commentary Manvarthamukt?val?
 of Kull?ka Bhat?t?a  },
title = { Manusm?ti?  },
title = { Manusm?ti : with the Sanskrit commentary Manvarthamukt?val?
 of Kull?ka Bhat?t?a  },
title = { ????????????????  },
title = { ??? ??????? : ???? ??????? ???? ???????? ???????
 ??????????? ????????? ???????  },
title = { ????????????????  },
title = { ??? ??????? : ???? ??????? ???? ???????? ???????
 ??????????? ????????? ???????  },
address = { ?????? : },
publisher = { ??????? ?????????, },
year = { 1983. },
size = { xv, 29, 495, 24, 25 p. ; 22 cm.  },
note = { Added t.p. in English; Manusm?ti with the Sanskrit commentary Manvartha-mukt?val?
 of Kull?ka Bhat?t?a edited by J.L. Shastri with English introduction by S.C. Banerji. },
note = { In Sanskrit; introduction in English. },
note = { PUB: Delhi : Motilal Banarsidass Publishers -- Added t.p. },
note = { Summary: Classical verse work, with 13th century commentary, on Hindu law. },
note = { Includes index. },
note = { ISBN on cover 0895816555. },
keywords = { Hindu law.  },
author = { Kull?kabha??a. },
author = { Shastri, Jagdish Lal. },
title = { M?navadharma??stra. },
 }



Kind regards,

 Richard


-- 
Richard MAHONEY | internet: http://indica-et-buddhica.org/
Littledene      | telephone/telefax (man.): +64 3 312 1699
Bay Road        | cellular: +64 275 829 986
OXFORD, NZ      | email: r.mahoney at indica-et-buddhica.org
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Indica et Buddhica: Materials for Indology and Buddhology




From jpeterso at UNI-OSNABRUECK.DE  Wed Jan  7 10:38:25 2009
From: jpeterso at UNI-OSNABRUECK.DE (John Peterson)
Date: Wed, 07 Jan 09 11:38:25 +0100
Subject: New Series - Call for Manuscripts: South and Southwest Asian              Languages
Message-ID: <161227084385.23782.1775903935105108530.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Announcing a new series - Call for Manuscripts

Brill?s Studies in South and Southwest Asian Languages

Series Editors:
John Peterson, University of Osnabr?ck / University of Leipzig
Anju Saxena, Uppsala University

Editorial Board:
Anvita Abbi, Jawaharlal Nehru University
George Cardona, University of Pennsylvania
Carol Genetti, University of California, Santa Barbara
Geoffrey Haig, University of Kiel
Gilbert Lazard, CNRS & ?cole pratique des Hautes ?tudes
Michael Noonan, University of Wisconsin
Harold Schiffman, University of Pennsylvania
Udaya Narayana Singh, Central Institute of Indian Languages
Brill?s Studies in South and Southwest Asian Languages

ISSN 1877-4083

Brill?s Studies in South and Southwest Asian Languages (BSSAL) is a new
peer-reviewed series that provides a venue for high-quality
monograph-length descriptive and theoretical studies on the languages of
South and Southwest Asia. In the political sense, South Asia encompasses
the seven independent states Bangladesh, Bhutan, India, the Maldives,
Nepal, Pakistan and Sri Lanka, but linguistically and culturally it also
includes some adjacent areas to the east and north, notably Tibet.
Southwest Asia is understood here as comprising the Iranian language
speaking territory to the west of South Asia, i.e., the states of
Afghanistan and Iran and the geocultural transnational region Kurdistan,
consisting of parts of Turkey, Iraq, Iran and Syria.

The languages - ancient and modern - of South and Southwest Asia have
played a central role in linguistics from the field?s very beginnings as a
modern scientific endeavor, and continue to occupy a central position in
discussions in many linguistic subdisciplines, such as phonology,
morphology, syntax, historical linguistics, sociolinguistics, typology,
writing systems, and areal studies, to name just a few. The series seeks
high-quality, state-of-the-art contributions on all aspects of the
languages of this linguistically diverse and fascinating area. It will be
of interest to general linguists, indologists, and specialists in Iranian
studies.

For more information about this series, please visit

http://www.brill.nl/bssal

For enquiries or to submit a manuscript proposal, please contact:
Series Contact Editors:

John Peterson
FB 7, Univesrit?t Osnabr?ck
Neuer Graben 41
D-49069 Osnabr?ck
Germany
John.Peterson at uos.de

Anju Saxena
Department of Linguistics and Philology
Uppsala University
Box 635
SE-751 26 Uppsala
Sweden
Anju.Saxena at lingfil.uu.se

Editor Language & Linguistics:
Liesbeth Kanis
BRILL
P.O. Box 9000
2300 PA Leiden
The Netherlands
kanis at brill.nl


-- 
John Peterson
FB 7, Sprachwissenschaft
Universit?t Osnabr?ck
Neuer Graben 41
D-49069 Osnabr?ck
Germany

Telephone: (+49) (0)541-969 4252
Telefax: (+49) (0)541-969 4256
Homepages:
http://studip.serv.uni-osnabrueck.de/extern.php?username=johpeter&page_url=http://www.ling.uni-osnabrueck.de/Main/Mitarbeiterdetails
http://www.SouthAsiaBibliography.de/




From mkapstei at UCHICAGO.EDU  Thu Jan  8 22:08:55 2009
From: mkapstei at UCHICAGO.EDU (mkapstei at UCHICAGO.EDU)
Date: Thu, 08 Jan 09 16:08:55 -0600
Subject: term for actors
Message-ID: <161227084387.23782.2800450928807807861.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Among Skt. terms for "actor" we find
zailuu.sa, derived (via the a.n-pratyaya
used to form patronymics) from ziluu.sa, which
is a name for the Bilva tree.  

Is there an explanation for this
association of which any of you might 
be aware?

Matthew T. Kapstein
Numata Visiting Professor of Buddhist Studies
The University of Chicago Divinity School

Directeur d'?tudes
Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes, Paris




From gthomgt at COMCAST.NET  Thu Jan  8 22:54:48 2009
From: gthomgt at COMCAST.NET (George Thompson)
Date: Thu, 08 Jan 09 17:54:48 -0500
Subject: references to scholarly translations of the Gita into languages              other than English
In-Reply-To: <20090108160855.BQG17960@m4500-02.uchicago.edu>
Message-ID: <161227084389.23782.7904741938150829049.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Dear List,

Having recently published a translation of the Bhagavad Gita [=BhG], I 
have recently received requests to review some recent translations and 
studies of this most important of Indological texts.  In order to do an 
adequate job at this task I would like to know the full record of recent 
genuinely *scholarly* translations of the BhG in all languages other 
than English, produced over the last generation or two. 

Please forward all references to me privately, so as not to overburden 
the list email system.  I will collect all references and post them to 
the list in an appropriate form.  Perhaps this will be of use to the 
list in general.

Of course, if this research has already been done, please refer me to it 
quietly.

Sincerely,

George Thompson




From baums at U.WASHINGTON.EDU  Fri Jan  9 02:47:22 2009
From: baums at U.WASHINGTON.EDU (Stefan Baums)
Date: Thu, 08 Jan 09 18:47:22 -0800
Subject: nakedness of female ascetics
In-Reply-To: <857A4D84DE6D1D41837DD9284F2729AB03E85D9D@exchangesrv1.hum2005.hum.ku.dk>
Message-ID: <161227084396.23782.2330245426564605604.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Dear Ulrich,

the orthodox Digambara Jain attitude appears to be that women could not conceivably go naked, and that therefore they cannot attain liberation (for which nakedness is a precondition in Digambara doctrine). In his edition of the Mall&#299;&#8208;J?&#257;ta (p. 45; http://www.worldcat.org/oclc/12343686), Gustav Roth traces this opinion back to the the ca. third&#8208;century author Kundakund&#257;c&#257;rya, who writes:

    li&#7749;ga&#7747; itth&#299;&#7751;a havadi bhu?ja? pi&#7751;&#7693;a&#7747; sueyak&#257;lammi |
    ajjiya vi ekavatth&#257; vatth&#257;vara&#7751;e&#7751;a bhu?jei ||
    &#7751;a vi sijjha? vatthadharo ji&#7751;as&#257;sa&#7751;e ja? vi hoi titthayaro |
    &#7751;aggo vimokkhamaggo ses&#257; unmaggay&#257; savve ||

    The sign of women is that she eats her meal one time (a day),
    and a female noble one who has one dress eats under cover of a dress.
    And no wearer of a dress attains perfection in the teaching of the Jinas
       even if he is a t&#299;rtha&#7749;kara;
    the way to liberation is naked; all other ones are wrong ways.

On pp. 46?48 of the same work, Roth discusses a damaged statue of a naked woman seated with her hands in dhy&#257;namudr&#257; who may or may not be a female Jain ascetic (or even Mall&#299; herself), and which thus might be evidence for a more positive attitude among others.

Another case is the twelfth&#8208;century South Indian female V&#299;ra&#347;aiva ascetic and Kanna&#7693;a poet Akka Mah&#257;dev&#299;, as discussed by Jan Peter Schouten in his contribution to Kloppenborg & Hanegraaff, Female stereotypes in religious traditions (http://www.worldcat.org/oclc/32241531). An interesting aspect here is that when the &#346;iva devotee Mah&#257;dev&#299; initially went forth naked, this was at least partly to reject the marital bond with her Jain husband (whose religion required nudity for liberation but did not allow it in women).

Finally, on a more anecdotal level, none other than Monier Williams contributed a short note on ?Asceticism and Nudity? to the 11 January 1880 New York Times (http://query.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.html?res=9906EED91131EE3ABC4952DFB766838B699FDE) which concludes:

    In a secluded part of the City of Patna I came suddenly on an old female
    ascetic, who usually sits quite naked in a large barrel, which constitutes
    her only abode. When I passed her, in company of the collector and
    magistrate of the district, she rapidly drew a dirty sheet round her body.

On the face of it, this would seem to illustrate the same tension between some women?s desire to participate fully in ascetic practice and society?s disapproval of the nudity aspect thereof.

Hope that helps and all best wishes,
Stefan

-- 
Stefan Baums
Asian Languages and Literature
University of Washington




From baums at U.WASHINGTON.EDU  Fri Jan  9 03:01:02 2009
From: baums at U.WASHINGTON.EDU (Stefan Baums)
Date: Thu, 08 Jan 09 19:01:02 -0800
Subject: nakedness of female ascetics
In-Reply-To: <857A4D84DE6D1D41837DD9284F2729AB03E85D9D@exchangesrv1.hum2005.hum.ku.dk>
Message-ID: <161227084398.23782.10141377151318184323.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

I apologize for the diacritics mess. Once again in Kyoto-Harvard:

----------

Dear Ulrich,

the orthodox Digambara Jain attitude appears to be that women could not conceivably go naked, and that therefore they cannot attain liberation (for which nakedness is a precondition in Digambara doctrine). In his edition of the MallI-JJAtA (p. 45; http://www.worldcat.org/oclc/12343686), Gustav Roth traces this opinion back to the the ca. third-century author KundakundAcArya, who writes:

    lingaM itthINa havadi bhuJjai piNDaM sueyakAlammi |
    ajjiya vi ekavatthA vatthAvaraNeNa bhuNjei ||
    Na vi sijjhai vatthadharo jiNasAsaNe jai vi hoi titthayaro |
    Naggo vimokkhamaggo sesA unmaggayA savve ||

    The sign of women is that she eats her meal one time (a day),
    and a female noble one who has one dress eats under cover of a dress.
    And no wearer of a dress attains perfection in the teaching of the Jinas
       even if he is a tIrthaGkara;
    the way to liberation is naked; all other ones are wrong ways.

On pp. 46-48 of the same work, Roth discusses a damaged statue of a naked woman seated with her hands in dhyAnamudrA who may or may not be a female Jain ascetic (or even MallI herself), and which thus might be evidence for a more positive attitude among others.

Another case is the twelfth&#8208;century South Indian female VIrazaiva ascetic and KannaDa poet Akka MahAdevI, as discussed by Jan Peter Schouten in his contribution to Kloppenborg & Hanegraaff, Female stereotypes in religious traditions (http://www.worldcat.org/oclc/32241531). An interesting aspect here is that when the Ziva devotee MahAdevI initially went forth naked, this was at least partly to reject the marital bond with her Jain husband (whose religion required nudity for liberation but did not allow it in women).

Finally, on a more anecdotal level, none other than Monier Williams contributed a short note on "Asceticism and Nudity" to the 11 January 1880 New York Times (http://query.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.html?res=9906EED91131EE3ABC4952DFB766838B699FDE) which concludes:

    In a secluded part of the City of Patna I came suddenly on an old female ascetic, who usually sits quite naked in a large barrel, which constitutes her only abode. When I passed her, in company of the collector and magistrate of the district, she rapidly drew a dirty sheet round her body.

On the face of it, this would seem to illustrate the same tension between some women's desire to participate fully in ascetic practice and society's disapproval of the nudity aspect thereof.

Hope that helps and all best wishes,
Stefan

-- 
Stefan Baums
Asian Languages and Literature
University of Washington




From baums at U.WASHINGTON.EDU  Fri Jan  9 03:29:20 2009
From: baums at U.WASHINGTON.EDU (Stefan Baums)
Date: Thu, 08 Jan 09 19:29:20 -0800
Subject: term for actors
In-Reply-To: <20090108160855.BQG17960@m4500-02.uchicago.edu>
Message-ID: <161227084400.23782.8748280944300787392.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Dear Professor Kapstein,

Keith, Sanskrit Drama, p. 25, notes that the Yajurveda does not know naTa but
gives ZailUSa in a list of occupations, and he remarks: "there is nothing
whatever to show that an actor here is meant; a musician or a dancer may be
denoted, for both dancing and singing are mentioned in close proximity."

Tarlekar, Studies in the NATyazAstra, p. 12, has a reference to Ruben, Ueber
die Urspruenge des indischen Dramas (which latter I do not have accessible)
and to Ruben's theory that originally naTas were rope dancers, that these ropes
were stretched from rocks, and that therefore zailUSa could refer to "one who
camps on rocks." This sounds rather far-fetched in general (with the proviso that I have not seen Ruben's argument itself), and I fail to see how the
apparently intended analysis into zaila + the root vas could work
morphologically.

More likely indeed that this is a loanword. Also with reference to Kuiper, Mayrhofer, EWA, s.v., has:

   zailUSa- m. Taenzer, Saenger (VS+). - Wohl Fremdwort.

   Vielleicht mit ailUSa-, Patronymikon des KavaSa, zu verbinden (AitB; wohl
   auch in JB vailUSa-, richtig -v ail-: Hoffm, ZDMG 110 [1960] 181 = HoffmA
   136); z- : Null als Kennzeichen fremder Herkunft viell. auch in
   zirimbiTha- : irimbiThi-, o. II 639. - Lit. in KEWA III 376; KuiAryans 20,
   25, 42.

But concerning the classical Indian understanding of the word, which I think is your immediate concern, MW offers:

   zilUSa, m. Aegle Marmelos, L.; N. of a Rishi (said to have been an early
   teacher of the art of dancing), L. (cf. zailUSa).

The lexicographically alleged RSi escapes me - a search for him in a fairly extensive collection of digital texts turned up nothing. It would, however, appear natural for the later tradition to assume a mythical personage as namegiver based on the apparent patronymic formation of zailUSa. Is the alternative connection with the bilva tree ever made explicit in a text (with or without reasons for it)?

Best regards,
Stefan Baums

--
Stefan Baums
Asian Languages and Literature
University of Washington




From witzel at FAS.HARVARD.EDU  Fri Jan  9 02:26:29 2009
From: witzel at FAS.HARVARD.EDU (Michael Witzel)
Date: Thu, 08 Jan 09 21:26:29 -0500
Subject: term for actors
In-Reply-To: <20090108160855.BQG17960@m4500-02.uchicago.edu>
Message-ID: <161227084394.23782.2244979829888582098.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Try the article on this word by the late FBJ Kuiper, see:

  F.B.J. Kuiper, Selected Writings on Indian Linguistics and  
Philology, ed. by A. Lubotsky, M.S. Oort, M. Witzel, Amsterdam-  
Atlanta: Rodopi 1997

Cheers,
M.W.


On Jan 8, 2009, at 5:08 PM, mkapstei at UCHICAGO.EDU wrote:

> Among Skt. terms for "actor" we find
> zailuu.sa, derived (via the a.n-pratyaya
> used to form patronymics) from ziluu.sa, which
> is a name for the Bilva tree.
>
> Is there an explanation for this
> association of which any of you might
> be aware?
>
> Matthew T. Kapstein
> Numata Visiting Professor of Buddhist Studies
> The University of Chicago Divinity School
>
> Directeur d'?tudes
> Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes, Paris

Michael Witzel
witzel at fas.harvard.edu
<www.fas.harvard.edu/~witzel/mwpage.htm>

Dept. of Sanskrit & Indian Studies, Harvard University
1 Bow Street,
Cambridge MA 02138, USA

phone: 1- 617 - 495 3295 (voice & messages), 496 8570, fax 617 - 496  
8571;
my direct line:  617- 496 2990




From utkragh at HUM.KU.DK  Fri Jan  9 00:37:33 2009
From: utkragh at HUM.KU.DK (Ulrich T. Kragh)
Date: Fri, 09 Jan 09 01:37:33 +0100
Subject: nakedness of female ascetics
Message-ID: <161227084392.23782.18191228515385936030.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Dear Indology-List,
I have been working on a number of 8th-9th century Buddhist Tantric texts from NW Pakistan (Swat valley) written by female authors. One of the sAdhanas specifies that the practitioner should keep the hair loose, keep silent and be naked. From the context within the text, this appears to be a general rule of behavior, and not simply an advice on how to act during the ritual itself.
 
It made me wonder about the nakedness of female ascetics in general, whether in the past or today. I am aware of the nakedness of some male ascetics, such as modern-day male sAdhus and some Jain monks, but are there generally speaking cases of female ascetics moving about naked in Buddhism, Hinduism or Jainism? In the cases I know of today, female ascetics do not practice nakedness. 
 
Sincerely,
Tim
 
Dr. Ulrich Timme Kragh
Assistant Professor
Geumgang Center for Buddhist Studies
Geumgang University, Dae-myeong Ri, Sang-wol Myeon
Nonsan-si, Chungnam 320-931, Republic of Korea
Tel. +82-41-731 3618




From ashok.aklujkar at UBC.CA  Fri Jan  9 11:16:08 2009
From: ashok.aklujkar at UBC.CA (Ashok Aklujkar)
Date: Fri, 09 Jan 09 03:16:08 -0800
Subject: nakedness of female ascetics
In-Reply-To: <19125_1231461465_1231461465_857A4D84DE6D1D41837DD9284F2729AB03E85D9D@exchangesrv1.hum2005.hum.ku.dk>
Message-ID: <161227084405.23782.7583427560426837019.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Actual use of the freedom available in principle must have been rare (as is
also the case with males, although their actual number is/was larger than
the number of naked female ascetics). One later example is available in the
Vira Saiva tradition (as I recall, the name is Mahadevi Akka); see A.K.
Ramanujan's _Speaking of Shiva_.

Ashok Aklujkar




From ashok.aklujkar at UBC.CA  Fri Jan  9 12:28:03 2009
From: ashok.aklujkar at UBC.CA (Ashok Aklujkar)
Date: Fri, 09 Jan 09 04:28:03 -0800
Subject: help sought to indetify mandukavasanja
In-Reply-To: <14791_1230518128_1230518128_965fdc5f0812281835q40e1f97fk87bf3d2c10dcd104@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <161227084407.23782.3014708236190839279.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Probably the oldest available reference to the phenomenon concerned is in
the V.rtti on Vaakyapadiiya/Trikaa.n.dii 1.95 (bhaagavatsv api te.sv eva
...). Kindly check the text there and ;Srii-v.r.sabha's commentary thereto
and see if, taken along with the other references you now have, the
Bhart.r-hari reference helps you in understanding the phenomenon.

ashok aklujkar


On 08/05/24 6:35 PM, "veeranarayana Pandurangi" <veerankp at GMAIL.COM> wrote:

>In adavaitasiddhi and other texts (Gadadharas
> ????????????????????? and
Dinakari) a certain ????????????? (defect of senses)
> what exactly this mean?
how does it work? 




From mkapstei at UCHICAGO.EDU  Fri Jan  9 14:33:08 2009
From: mkapstei at UCHICAGO.EDU (mkapstei at UCHICAGO.EDU)
Date: Fri, 09 Jan 09 08:33:08 -0600
Subject: term for actors
Message-ID: <161227084410.23782.1882427560856232717.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Dear Stefan,

The MW entry suggests the problem but does nothing to
resolve it:  Aegle Marmelos, is the botanical name of the
bilva, and the .r.si ziluu.sa was clearly a contrivance
in order to supply a basis for the apparent patronymic
zailuu.sa.

I was not aware of Kuijper's article mentioned
by Prof. Witzel and will look it up shortly.

regards,

Matthew T. Kapstein
Numata Visiting Professor of Buddhist Studies
The University of Chicago Divinity School

Directeur d'?tudes
Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes, Paris




From tcoleman at COLORADOCOLLEGE.EDU  Fri Jan  9 17:33:40 2009
From: tcoleman at COLORADOCOLLEGE.EDU (Tracy Coleman)
Date: Fri, 09 Jan 09 10:33:40 -0700
Subject: nakedness of female ascetics
Message-ID: <161227084412.23782.588066559873754734.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Tim--

See Padmanabh Jaini's superb study of  women's nakedness/women's salvation
in the history of Jainism, Jaina Debates on the Spiritual Liberation of
Women (originally a UC publication, but now available from Munshiram, I
believe).

--Tracy Coleman


-----Original Message-----
From: Indology on behalf of Ulrich T. Kragh
Sent: Thu 1/8/2009 5:37 PM
To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk
Subject: nakedness of female ascetics
 
Dear Indology-List,
I have been working on a number of 8th-9th century Buddhist Tantric texts
from NW Pakistan (Swat valley) written by female authors. One of the
sAdhanas specifies that the practitioner should keep the hair loose, keep
silent and be naked. From the context within the text, this appears to be
a general rule of behavior, and not simply an advice on how to act during
the ritual itself.
 
It made me wonder about the nakedness of female ascetics in general,
whether in the past or today. I am aware of the nakedness of some male
ascetics, such as modern-day male sAdhus and some Jain monks, but are
there generally speaking cases of female ascetics moving about naked in
Buddhism, Hinduism or Jainism? In the cases I know of today, female
ascetics do not practice nakedness. 
 
Sincerely,
Tim
 
Dr. Ulrich Timme Kragh
Assistant Professor
Geumgang Center for Buddhist Studies
Geumgang University, Dae-myeong Ri, Sang-wol Myeon
Nonsan-si, Chungnam 320-931, Republic of Korea
Tel. +82-41-731 3618




From acharyadiwakar at HOTMAIL.COM  Fri Jan  9 04:43:07 2009
From: acharyadiwakar at HOTMAIL.COM (diwakar acharya)
Date: Fri, 09 Jan 09 13:43:07 +0900
Subject: nakedness of female ascetics
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.43.0901081901020.18678@hymn12.u.washington.edu>
Message-ID: <161227084403.23782.7165776897361720686.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

One more anecdote. 

 

I remember two incidents from my childhood days in the 80s. I
do not remember the exact years but both happened before I entered Sanskrit
hostel in 1986. 

 

One year, there was a special attraction: a young completely
naked na.mgini was sitting among many naagaas inside the courtyard of the Pashupati
temple in Kathmandu. She had smeared ashes all
over the body, was rather brave and paying no attention to opposing Nagas. Then
it was customary for the king to pay a visit to the temple and offer some gifts
to the naked Sadhus. As she was in the front row, along his path to temple, she
was asked to move to the back row. That she agreed. Such incident might have
happened before and after that year but I have not witnessed. 

 

I also remember my visit to a rather old and frail na.mgini
in Vankali, in the same area. This must be even before the first incident. 
Generally, we, children in the area, were very much
afraid of her. She looked terrible and used to shout at children, when they
teased or troubled her. One day my grandmother asked me to accompany her to
visit the Na.mgini. My grandma, who was born in Sindhupalchok, was asked by one
of her relatives there to tell the the na.mgini that one of her relatives in
the village has died. She used to live in a Yaj~na?saalaa with an agniku.n.da
in the middle. Local people say that this was built by King Mahendra for her (Now
this yaj~na?saalaa is modified, annexed to a new structure and turned into the chamber
of Treasurer of Pashupati Area Development Trust). She was calm inside, I was
surprised. She had smeared ashes, put a rag around her waist to cover the
private parts, but breasts were not covered. She showed indifference, obviously
was not affected by the news.     




Diwakar Acharya 

Graduate School of Letters

Kyoto University




> Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2009 19:01:02 -0800
> From: baums at U.WASHINGTON.EDU
> Subject: Re: nakedness of female ascetics
> To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk
> 
> I apologize for the diacritics mess. Once again in Kyoto-Harvard:
> 
> ----------
> 
> Dear Ulrich,
> 
> the orthodox Digambara Jain attitude appears to be that women could not conceivably go naked, and that therefore they cannot attain liberation (for which nakedness is a precondition in Digambara doctrine). In his edition of the MallI-JJAtA (p. 45; http://www.worldcat.org/oclc/12343686), Gustav Roth traces this opinion back to the the ca. third-century author KundakundAcArya, who writes:
> 
>     lingaM itthINa havadi bhuJjai piNDaM sueyakAlammi |
>     ajjiya vi ekavatthA vatthAvaraNeNa bhuNjei ||
>     Na vi sijjhai vatthadharo jiNasAsaNe jai vi hoi titthayaro |
>     Naggo vimokkhamaggo sesA unmaggayA savve ||
> 
>     The sign of women is that she eats her meal one time (a day),
>     and a female noble one who has one dress eats under cover of a dress.
>     And no wearer of a dress attains perfection in the teaching of the Jinas
>        even if he is a tIrthaGkara;
>     the way to liberation is naked; all other ones are wrong ways.
> 
> On pp. 46-48 of the same work, Roth discusses a damaged statue of a naked woman seated with her hands in dhyAnamudrA who may or may not be a female Jain ascetic (or even MallI herself), and which thus might be evidence for a more positive attitude among others.
> 
> Another case is the twelfth&#8208;century South Indian female VIrazaiva ascetic and KannaDa poet Akka MahAdevI, as discussed by Jan Peter Schouten in his contribution to Kloppenborg & Hanegraaff, Female stereotypes in religious traditions (http://www.worldcat.org/oclc/32241531). An interesting aspect here is that when the Ziva devotee MahAdevI initially went forth naked, this was at least partly to reject the marital bond with her Jain husband (whose religion required nudity for liberation but did not allow it in women).
> 
> Finally, on a more anecdotal level, none other than Monier Williams contributed a short note on "Asceticism and Nudity" to the 11 January 1880 New York Times (http://query.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.html?res=9906EED91131EE3ABC4952DFB766838B699FDE) which concludes:
> 
>     In a secluded part of the City of Patna I came suddenly on an old female ascetic, who usually sits quite naked in a large barrel, which constitutes her only abode. When I passed her, in company of the collector and magistrate of the district, she rapidly drew a dirty sheet round her body.
> 
> On the face of it, this would seem to illustrate the same tension between some women's desire to participate fully in ascetic practice and society's disapproval of the nudity aspect thereof.
> 
> Hope that helps and all best wishes,
> Stefan
> 
> -- 
> Stefan Baums
> Asian Languages and Literature
> University of Washington

_________________________________________________________________
News, entertainment and everything you care about at Live.com. Get it now!
http://www.live.com/getstarted.aspx




From pwyzlic at UNI-BONN.DE  Fri Jan  9 18:19:30 2009
From: pwyzlic at UNI-BONN.DE (Peter Wyzlic)
Date: Fri, 09 Jan 09 19:19:30 +0100
Subject: nakedness of female ascetics
In-Reply-To: <DD3551F5EE1D844A80ED4B4F7B48DE31550413@exchange-b.ColoradoCollege.edu>
Message-ID: <161227084414.23782.11805908089084710991.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Am 09.01.2009 um 18:33 schrieb Tracy Coleman:

> See Padmanabh Jaini's superb study of  women's nakedness/women's  
> salvation
> in the history of Jainism, Jaina Debates on the Spiritual Liberation  
> of
> Women (originally a UC publication, but now available from  
> Munshiram, I
> believe).


And the work is viewable online:
URL: <http://ark.cdlib.org/ark:/13030/ft138nb0wk/>

All the best
Peter Wyzlic
--
Institut f?r Orient- und Asienwissenschaften
Abteilung f?r Indologie
Universit?t Bonn
Regina-Pacis-Weg 7
53113 Bonn




From elizabeth.demichelis at ORIEL.OX.AC.UK  Fri Jan  9 21:36:35 2009
From: elizabeth.demichelis at ORIEL.OX.AC.UK (Elizabeth De Michelis)
Date: Fri, 09 Jan 09 21:36:35 +0000
Subject: nakedness of female ascetics
In-Reply-To: <857A4D84DE6D1D41837DD9284F2729AB03E85D9D@exchangesrv1.hum2005.hum.ku.dk>
Message-ID: <161227084416.23782.13557766133381169582.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Dear Tim,

_The Mystics, Ascetics, and Saints of India. A Study of Sadhuism,  
with an Account of the Yogis, Sanyasis, Bairagis, and other strange  
Hindu Sectarians_  By John Campbell Oman, Published by Adamant Media  
Corporation, ISBN 1402167466, 9781402167461
[orig pub. London, T F Unwin, 1903]

has a brief passage narrating his encounter with a small group of  
sadhus including a semi-naked (waist up) female sannyasini. There is  
also a photo of the group (fig 13 facing page 229). There are  
interesting reactions from the local population (taking darsan and  
giving offering), while 'modernist' members of the Arya Samay are  
outraged by the sadhus' nakedness.

I can see the work (including photos) on Google book search.

Best regards
Elizabeth De Michelis

Dr Elizabeth De Michelis
Oriel College, Oriel Square,
Oxford, UK         OX1 4EW
email: elizabeth.demichelis at oriel.ox.ac.uk
www.oriel.ox.ac.uk/modernyoga


On 9 Jan 2009, at 00:37, Ulrich T. Kragh wrote:

> Dear Indology-List,
> I have been working on a number of 8th-9th century Buddhist Tantric  
> texts from NW Pakistan (Swat valley) written by female authors. One  
> of the sAdhanas specifies that the practitioner should keep the  
> hair loose, keep silent and be naked. From the context within the  
> text, this appears to be a general rule of behavior, and not simply  
> an advice on how to act during the ritual itself.
>
> It made me wonder about the nakedness of female ascetics in  
> general, whether in the past or today. I am aware of the nakedness  
> of some male ascetics, such as modern-day male sAdhus and some Jain  
> monks, but are there generally speaking cases of female ascetics  
> moving about naked in Buddhism, Hinduism or Jainism? In the cases I  
> know of today, female ascetics do not practice nakedness.
>
> Sincerely,
> Tim
>
> Dr. Ulrich Timme Kragh
> Assistant Professor
> Geumgang Center for Buddhist Studies
> Geumgang University, Dae-myeong Ri, Sang-wol Myeon
> Nonsan-si, Chungnam 320-931, Republic of Korea
> Tel. +82-41-731 3618




From slaje at T-ONLINE.DE  Sat Jan 10 08:06:00 2009
From: slaje at T-ONLINE.DE (Walter Slaje)
Date: Sat, 10 Jan 09 08:06:00 +0000
Subject: "Kleine Schriften" Generalregister online
Message-ID: <161227084419.23782.2016798489152742272.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Die Register der "Kleine Schriften"-B?nde 1-37, 40-41 der Helmuth von Glasenapp-Stiftung (http://www.glasenapp-stiftung.de/) k?nnen ab sofort in einem kumulativen Generalregister elektronisch durchsucht werden.

Recherche-Anleitungen sowie weitere Details unter:
http://www.indologie.uni-halle.de/Register/


Mit freundlichen Gr??en,

Walter Slaje

--------------------------------------- 
Prof. Dr. Walter Slaje
Hermann-Loens-Str. 1
D-99425 Weimar (Germany)
Tel/Fax: +49-(0)3643 501391
-----------------------------------------
Seminar f?r Indologie
Institut f?r Altertumswissenschaften
Martin-Luther-Universit?t Halle-Wittenberg
Emil-Abderhalden-Str. 9
D-06108 Halle (Germany)
Tel: +49-(0)345-55-23650
Fax: +49-(0)345-55-27139
mailto:walter.slaje at indologie.uni-halle.de
www.indologie.uni-halle.de
-----------------------------------------
Ego ex animi mei sententia spondeo ac polliceor
me studia humanitatis impigro labore culturum et provecturum
non sordidi lucri causa nec ad vanam captandam gloriam,
sed quo magis veritas propagetur et lux eius, qua salus
humani generis continetur, clarius effulgeat.
Vindobonae, die XXI. mensis Novembris MCMLXXXIII.




From jkirk at SPRO.NET  Sat Jan 10 20:13:15 2009
From: jkirk at SPRO.NET (jkirk)
Date: Sat, 10 Jan 09 13:13:15 -0700
Subject: Secretary of Arts Petition
In-Reply-To: <208564CA-E7A9-4422-96AB-49D1D08DFCC3@osu.edu>
Message-ID: <161227084425.23782.11192955685290554985.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

I'm completely opposed to this idea of adding to government
bureaucratic interference with the arts.  The National Endowment
on the Arts was quickly politicised and just got worse as time
and presidential appointments to its directorship proceeded. 
Keep government out of the arts, period.
Aaaaaaargh.

Joanna Kirkpatrick
Bennington College, retd.

-----Original Message-----
From: Indology [mailto:INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk] On Behalf Of
John C. Huntington
Sent: Saturday, January 10, 2009 12:30 PM
To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk
Subject: Fwd: Secretary of Arts Petition

Dear Friends and Colleagues,

Please forgive cross-listing

U.S. members of both lists should please consider signing the
petition,

It is my opinion that this is a major need!

Thank you all

John


John C. Huntington, Professor
(Buddhist Art and Methodologies)
http://history-of-art.osu.edu/3_people/faculty.php
Visit the Huntington Archive At:
<http://huntingtonarchive.osu.edu>
Department of the History of Art
The Ohio State University
Columbus, OH, U.S.A.

Street Address:
108 North Oval Mall
Columbus, OH 43210-1318 U.S.A.

Phone:
(614) 688-8198


Begin forwarded message:
>
> From: loringr at hotmail.com
> Subject: FW: Secretary of Arts Petition
> Date: Fri, 9 Jan 2009 18:10:49 +0000
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Dear Friends,
>
> You may already have received this, but it is truly important,
I'm 
> passing it along.
>
> Quincy Jones has started a petition to ask President-Elect
Obama to 
> appoint a Secretary of the Arts.  While many other countries
have had 
> Ministers of Art or Culture for centuries, The United States
has never 
> created such a position.  We in the arts need this and the
country 
> needs the arts--now more than ever.  Please take a moment to
sign this 
> important petition and then pass it on to your friends and
colleagues.
>
>
> http://www.PetitionOnline.com/esnyc/petition.html
>
>
>
> Corina Brito
>
>
> "What lies behind us and what lies before us are tiny matters
compared 
> to what lies within us"
>
> -Ralph Waldo Emerson
>
>
>
>
>




From baums at U.WASHINGTON.EDU  Sat Jan 10 21:54:25 2009
From: baums at U.WASHINGTON.EDU (Stefan Baums)
Date: Sat, 10 Jan 09 13:54:25 -0800
Subject: Gift giving in the Kali age
In-Reply-To: <BLU128-W43B4B5088197DDE5D84674A4DA0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <161227084430.23782.14308674085514912878.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Dear Benjamin,

ZrIkRSNa's verse occurs in the AgnipurANa (ed. Rajendralal Mitra, 209.55, according to GRETIL).

All best,
Stefan

-- 
Stefan Baums
Asian Languages and Literature
University of Washington




From huntington.2 at OSU.EDU  Sat Jan 10 19:30:18 2009
From: huntington.2 at OSU.EDU (John C. Huntington)
Date: Sat, 10 Jan 09 14:30:18 -0500
Subject: Fwd: Secretary of Arts Petition
Message-ID: <161227084423.23782.5900686141164695425.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Dear Friends and Colleagues,

Please forgive cross-listing

U.S. members of both lists should please consider signing the petition,

It is my opinion that this is a major need!

Thank you all

John


John C. Huntington, Professor
(Buddhist Art and Methodologies)
http://history-of-art.osu.edu/3_people/faculty.php
Visit the Huntington Archive At:
<http://huntingtonarchive.osu.edu>
Department of the History of Art
The Ohio State University
Columbus, OH, U.S.A.

Street Address:
108 North Oval Mall
Columbus, OH 43210-1318 U.S.A.

Phone:
(614) 688-8198


Begin forwarded message:
>
> From: loringr at hotmail.com
> Subject: FW: Secretary of Arts Petition
> Date: Fri, 9 Jan 2009 18:10:49 +0000
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Dear Friends,
>
> You may already have received this, but it is truly important, I'm  
> passing it along.
>
> Quincy Jones has started a petition to ask President-Elect  Obama to  
> appoint a Secretary of the Arts.  While many other countries have  
> had Ministers of Art or Culture for centuries, The United States has  
> never created such a position.  We in the arts need this and the  
> country needs the arts--now more than ever.  Please take a moment to  
> sign this important petition and then pass it on to your friends and  
> colleagues.
>
>
> http://www.PetitionOnline.com/esnyc/petition.html
>
>
>
> Corina Brito
>
>
> "What lies behind us and what lies before us are tiny matters  
> compared to what lies within us"
>
> -Ralph Waldo Emerson
>
>
>
>
>




From fleming_b4 at HOTMAIL.COM  Sat Jan 10 21:39:20 2009
From: fleming_b4 at HOTMAIL.COM (Benjamin Fleming)
Date: Sat, 10 Jan 09 15:39:20 -0600
Subject: Gift giving in the Kali age
In-Reply-To: <alpine.WNT.2.00.0901101942200.6120@Caraka>
Message-ID: <161227084427.23782.15787737669925845498.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Dear List,I am trying to identify a Sanskrit passage cited by L. Rocher in his translation of Jiimuutavaahana's Daayabhaaga: The Hindu Law of Inheritance in Bengal (Oxford, 2002). The passage in question appears in a footnote (no. 46) to chapter six, section one, verse 42 (page 145 of Rocher's translation). The footnote reads:>>ZriikRSNa quotes the following verse: kRte tu diiyate gatvaa tretaayaam aahutaaya vai/ dvaapare yaacamaanaaya kalau tv anugamaanvite, "in the KRta age folks go out of their way to make gifts, in the Tretaa age they ask people to come and get them, in the Dvaapara age they make gifts if people ask for them, in the Kali age gifts are made as a quid pro quo." This verse alludes to the four Hindu world ages (yugas), from the perfect KRta age down to the wretched Kali age in which we now live.<<Verse 42 of Jiimuutavaahana's text appears as part of a larger discourse on a brahman's entitlement. The translation of which reads:>>That is absurd. One sees it happen all the time in real life that property is being drawn on in order to gratify the person from whom one expects to receive a donation, by giving him complimentary presents and the like. Besides, in the Kali age property received as a brahman's entitlement is tantamount to paying for service. That is why a Text says:"In the Kali age gifts are made as a quid pro quo."<<It is to the last sentence that the footnote cited above is attached, the Sanskrit for which reads:>>ata eva kalau tv anugamaanvita iti smaranti<<Does anyone know what is being cited in either passage (i.e., the authorities cited by both Jiimuutavaahana and ZriikRSNa)? Jiimuutavaahana is dated by Rocher to about the 12th c., while ZriikRSNa to the mid 18th century. Presumably ZriikRSNa knows the source and is filling it out in full, but I am unclear what the text he cites is.The passage, in any case, is interesting to me because it diverges significantly from Manu 1.86, which places gift-giving only in the Kali age (tapas are appropriate in the KRta, jJAna in the Tretaa, and yajJa in the Dvaapara ages respectfully); the full passage cited by ZriikRSNa, by contrast, creates four separate categories of gift-giving, one for each age. Gift-giving it would seem, has grown in status in the (presumably) later passage cited in both scholars' (J. and Z.) works. Any help in identifying the source is greatly appreciated!Best Wishes,Benjamin -- 

Benjamin Fleming
Mellon Post-doctoral Fellow, Dept. of Religious Studies
University of Pennsylvania
249 S. 36th Street; Claudia Cohen Hall, #234
Philadelphia, PA 19104 U.S.A.
Telephone - 215-746-7792 
_________________________________________________________________
Show them the way! Add maps and directions to your party invites.
http://www.microsoft.com/windows/windowslive/events.aspx



From fleming_b4 at HOTMAIL.COM  Sat Jan 10 22:03:04 2009
From: fleming_b4 at HOTMAIL.COM (Benjamin Fleming)
Date: Sat, 10 Jan 09 16:03:04 -0600
Subject: Gift giving in the Kali age
In-Reply-To: <BLU128-W43B4B5088197DDE5D84674A4DA0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <161227084432.23782.2761786934694110408.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Dear List,

My appologies for the garbled message sent through my hotmail account in rich text format. I am resending in plain text with, hopefully, the appropriate spacing to avoid confusion.

B
___________________
 Dear List,

I am trying to identify a Sanskrit passage cited by L. Rocher in his translation of Jiimuutavaahana's Daayabhaaga: The Hindu Law of Inheritance in Bengal (Oxford, 2002). The passage in question appears in a footnote (no. 46) to chapter six, section one, verse 42 (page 145 of Rocher's translation). The footnote reads:

>>ZriikRSNa quotes the following verse: kRte tu diiyate gatvaa tretaayaam aahutaaya vai/ dvaapare yaacamaanaaya kalau tv anugamaanvite, "in the KRta age folks go out of their way to make gifts, in the Tretaa age they ask people to come and get them, in the Dvaapara age they make gifts if people ask for them, in the Kali age gifts are made as a quid pro quo." This verse alludes to the four Hindu world ages (yugas), from the perfect KRta age down to the wretched Kali age in which we now live.<<

Verse 42 of Jiimuutavaahana's text appears as part of a larger discourse on a brahman's entitlement. The translation of which reads:

>>That is absurd. One sees it happen all the time in real life that property is being drawn on in order to gratify the person from whom one expects to receive a donation, by giving him complimentary presents and the like. Besides, in the Kali age property received as a brahman's entitlement is tantamount to paying for service. That is why a Text says:"In the Kali age gifts are made as a quid pro quo."<<

It is to the last sentence that the footnote cited above is attached, the Sanskrit for which reads:

>>ata eva kalau tv anugamaanvita iti smaranti<<

Does anyone know what is being cited in either passage (i.e., the authorities cited by both Jiimuutavaahana and ZriikRSNa)? Jiimuutavaahana is dated by Rocher to about the 12th c., while ZriikRSNa to the mid 18th century. Presumably ZriikRSNa knows the source and is filling it out in full, but I am unclear what the text he cites is.

The passage, in any case, is interesting to me because it diverges significantly from Manu 1.86, which places gift-giving only in the Kali age (tapas are appropriate in the KRta, jJAna in the Tretaa, and yajJa in the Dvaapara ages respectfully); the full passage cited by ZriikRSNa, by contrast, creates four separate categories of gift-giving, one for each age. Gift-giving it would seem, has grown in status in the (presumably) later passage cited in both scholars' (J. and Z.) works. 

Any help in identifying the source is greatly appreciated!

Best Wishes,

Benjamin
 
> Benjamin Fleming
> Mellon Post-doctoral Fellow, Dept. of Religious Studies
> University of Pennsylvania
> 249 S. 36th Street; Claudia Cohen Hall, #234
> Philadelphia, PA 19104 U.S.A.
> Telephone - 215-746-7792 

_________________________________________________________________
Drag n? drop?Get easy photo sharing with Windows Live? Photos.
http://www.microsoft.com/windows/windowslive/photos.aspx




From ucgadkw at UCL.AC.UK  Sat Jan 10 18:43:36 2009
From: ucgadkw at UCL.AC.UK (Dominik Wujastyk)
Date: Sat, 10 Jan 09 19:43:36 +0100
Subject: nakedness of female ascetics
In-Reply-To: <857A4D84DE6D1D41837DD9284F2729AB03E85D9D@exchangesrv1.hum2005.hum.ku.dk>
Message-ID: <161227084421.23782.12725703390029905101.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

I have glimpsed occasional naked women ascetics in rural India 
(Maharashtra), but they may equally have been madwomen.

-- 
Dr Dominik Wujastyk
Wellcome Trust Senior Research Fellow
University College London


On Fri, 9 Jan 2009, Ulrich T. Kragh wrote:

> Dear Indology-List,
> I have been working on a number of 8th-9th century Buddhist Tantric texts from NW Pakistan (Swat valley) written by female authors. One of the sAdhanas specifies that the practitioner should keep the hair loose, keep silent and be naked. From the context within the text, this appears to be a general rule of behavior, and not simply an advice on how to act during the ritual itself.
>
> It made me wonder about the nakedness of female ascetics in general, whether in the past or today. I am aware of the nakedness of some male ascetics, such as modern-day male sAdhus and some Jain monks, but are there generally speaking cases of female ascetics moving about naked in Buddhism, Hinduism or Jainism? In the cases I know of today, female ascetics do not practice nakedness.
>
> Sincerely,
> Tim
>
> Dr. Ulrich Timme Kragh
> Assistant Professor
> Geumgang Center for Buddhist Studies
> Geumgang University, Dae-myeong Ri, Sang-wol Myeon
> Nonsan-si, Chungnam 320-931, Republic of Korea
> Tel. +82-41-731 3618
>




From victorvanbijlert at KPNPLANET.NL  Mon Jan 12 06:58:31 2009
From: victorvanbijlert at KPNPLANET.NL (victor van Bijlert)
Date: Mon, 12 Jan 09 07:58:31 +0100
Subject: Gita
Message-ID: <161227084434.23782.12833906154053104996.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

If you send me a review copy, I would review it for the journal on
comparative religious studies from the Free University Amsterdam.

My postal address is:

Burg.Patijnlaan 1062

2585 CE Den Haag

The Netherlands

Cheers

Victor

 




From huntington.2 at OSU.EDU  Mon Jan 12 16:22:31 2009
From: huntington.2 at OSU.EDU (John C. Huntington)
Date: Mon, 12 Jan 09 11:22:31 -0500
Subject: Amitabha in Gandharan art
In-Reply-To: <556D61EE3DEE4D6AA211A7C9418729D0@VICPC>
Message-ID: <161227084452.23782.11176720787665756144.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Dear Victor

My article is is available for download at:

http://huntingtonarchive.osu.edu/Projects/JCHArticles/JCHMasterIndex.html

under articles

05:09

I hope you find it useful

John

On Jan 12, 2009, at 5:34 AM, victor van Bijlert wrote:

> Dear friends,
>
> Does anyone have electronic versions of articles on the  
> representation of
> Buddha Amitabha / Amitayus in Gandharan art. I am especially looking  
> for zn
> electronic version of an article by J.C.Huntington which appeared in  
> the
> Annali dell'Instituto Orientale di Napoli 40, 1980, but page numbers  
> I do
> not have and an article by Gerard Fussman on the Sukhavati Vyuha which
> appeared in Journal Asiatique, 1999, vol 287, page 521 ff.
>
> Perhaps also other references to depictions of Amitabha in Gandhara  
> art. I
> have the one by Gregory Schopen at my disposal.
>
> Thanks for possible references and the trouble
>
> Victor van Bijlert
>
>
>
>
> -- 
> BEGIN-ANTISPAM-VOTING-LINKS
> ------------------------------------------------------
>
> Teach CanIt if this mail (ID 779926434) is spam:
> Spam:        https://antispam.osu.edu/b.php?c=s&i=779926434&m=9e1674a16f01
> Not spam:    https://antispam.osu.edu/b.php?c=n&i=779926434&m=9e1674a16f01
> Forget vote: https://antispam.osu.edu/b.php?c=f&i=779926434&m=9e1674a16f01
> ------------------------------------------------------
> END-ANTISPAM-VOTING-LINKS
>




From rmanring at INDIANA.EDU  Mon Jan 12 16:27:15 2009
From: rmanring at INDIANA.EDU (Manring, Rebecca)
Date: Mon, 12 Jan 09 11:27:15 -0500
Subject: Seeking Iyer's Gita film
Message-ID: <161227084454.23782.11247359713297265568.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Does anyone know how I might obtain a copy of G.V. Iyer's "Bhagavad Gita" film?  The copy I have is an old VHS that is almost unusable, and my attempts to locate a library copy to borrow have so far proven futile.

Thank you,

Rebecca J. Manring
Associate Professor
India Studies and Religious Studies




From victorvanbijlert at KPNPLANET.NL  Mon Jan 12 10:34:11 2009
From: victorvanbijlert at KPNPLANET.NL (victor van Bijlert)
Date: Mon, 12 Jan 09 11:34:11 +0100
Subject: Amitabha in Gandharan art
Message-ID: <161227084437.23782.10730255882857521606.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Dear friends,

Does anyone have electronic versions of articles on the representation of
Buddha Amitabha / Amitayus in Gandharan art. I am especially looking for zn
electronic version of an article by J.C.Huntington which appeared in the
Annali dell'Instituto Orientale di Napoli 40, 1980, but page numbers I do
not have and an article by Gerard Fussman on the Sukhavati Vyuha which
appeared in Journal Asiatique, 1999, vol 287, page 521 ff.

Perhaps also other references to depictions of Amitabha in Gandhara art. I
have the one by Gregory Schopen at my disposal.

Thanks for possible references and the trouble

Victor van Bijlert

 




From athr at LOC.GOV  Mon Jan 12 16:56:44 2009
From: athr at LOC.GOV (Allen W Thrasher)
Date: Mon, 12 Jan 09 11:56:44 -0500
Subject: nakedness of female ascetics
Message-ID: <161227084456.23782.14847359431044467909.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

I believe that old Hindu women have a reputation for getting extreme about ritual purity, which sometimes leads to doing housework stark naked, which sometimes can be glimpsed through the door or gate.  I've noticed what seemed to be cases of this myself, but I can't remember which cities or years.

To judge from occasional comments in advice columns through the years, some American women, presumably neither very old nor mad, find it more comfortable to do the housework naked.

Allen

Allen W. Thrasher, Ph.D.
Senior Reference Librarian
Team Coordinator
South Asia Team, Asian Division
Library of Congress, Jefferson Building 150
101 Independence Ave., S.E.
Washington, DC 20540-4810
tel. 202-707-3732; fax 202-707-1724; athr at loc.gov
The opinions expressed do not necessarily reflect those of the Library of Congress.




From cbpicron at GMX.DE  Mon Jan 12 11:15:56 2009
From: cbpicron at GMX.DE (Claudine Bautze-Picron)
Date: Mon, 12 Jan 09 12:15:56 +0100
Subject: Amitabha in Gandharan art
In-Reply-To: <556D61EE3DEE4D6AA211A7C9418729D0@VICPC>
Message-ID: <161227084439.23782.3100538216635831443.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Dear Victor,

If you give your email address, I can forward you G. Fussman's paper in pdf.
Claudine Bautze-Picron.

-----Original Message-----
From: Indology [mailto:INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk] On Behalf Of victor van
Bijlert
Sent: Montag, 12. Januar 2009 11:34
To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk
Subject: Amitabha in Gandharan art

Dear friends,

Does anyone have electronic versions of articles on the representation of
Buddha Amitabha / Amitayus in Gandharan art. I am especially looking for zn
electronic version of an article by J.C.Huntington which appeared in the
Annali dell'Instituto Orientale di Napoli 40, 1980, but page numbers I do
not have and an article by Gerard Fussman on the Sukhavati Vyuha which
appeared in Journal Asiatique, 1999, vol 287, page 521 ff.

Perhaps also other references to depictions of Amitabha in Gandhara art. I
have the one by Gregory Schopen at my disposal.

Thanks for possible references and the trouble

Victor van Bijlert

 




From victorvanbijlert at KPNPLANET.NL  Mon Jan 12 11:32:54 2009
From: victorvanbijlert at KPNPLANET.NL (victor van Bijlert)
Date: Mon, 12 Jan 09 12:32:54 +0100
Subject: Amitabha in Gandharan art
In-Reply-To: <001a01c974a7$2471ad80$6d550880$@de>
Message-ID: <161227084442.23782.4230474174381624599.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

My e-mail address is: victorvanbijlert at pknplanet.nl
With many thanks!!
Victor

-----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
Van: Indology [mailto:INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk] Namens Claudine
Bautze-Picron
Verzonden: maandag 12 januari 2009 12:16
Aan: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk
Onderwerp: Re: Amitabha in Gandharan art

Dear Victor,

If you give your email address, I can forward you G. Fussman's paper in pdf.
Claudine Bautze-Picron.

-----Original Message-----
From: Indology [mailto:INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk] On Behalf Of victor van
Bijlert
Sent: Montag, 12. Januar 2009 11:34
To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk
Subject: Amitabha in Gandharan art

Dear friends,

Does anyone have electronic versions of articles on the representation of
Buddha Amitabha / Amitayus in Gandharan art. I am especially looking for zn
electronic version of an article by J.C.Huntington which appeared in the
Annali dell'Instituto Orientale di Napoli 40, 1980, but page numbers I do
not have and an article by Gerard Fussman on the Sukhavati Vyuha which
appeared in Journal Asiatique, 1999, vol 287, page 521 ff.

Perhaps also other references to depictions of Amitabha in Gandhara art. I
have the one by Gregory Schopen at my disposal.

Thanks for possible references and the trouble

Victor van Bijlert

 




From victorvanbijlert at KPNPLANET.NL  Mon Jan 12 11:44:51 2009
From: victorvanbijlert at KPNPLANET.NL (victor van Bijlert)
Date: Mon, 12 Jan 09 12:44:51 +0100
Subject: nakedness of female ascetics
In-Reply-To: <857A4D84DE6D1D41837DD9284F2729AB03E85D9D@exchangesrv1.hum2005.hum.ku.dk>
Message-ID: <161227084444.23782.8999944657823342950.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Dear Tim,
I should have realized that in Hindu iconography the Goddess Kali is
sometimes depicted as naked. You might find it useful to consult: david
Gordon White, Kiss of the Yogini: Tantric sex in its South Asian Contexts,
University of Chicago, 2003. I found one reference to nakedness in it:
nagnakabandha, but I have not scrutinized the whole book yet. One could also
perhaps scan the old Imperial Gazetteers and the District Gazetteers for the
United Provinces and the Central Provinces. Perhaps also for Kashmir. The
former two areas witnessed the demise of the ascetic yogi-soldiering culture
around the middle of the nineteenth century. I assume you would find more in
contemporary anthropological writings than perhaps in classical indological
writings on this subject.
Cheers
Victor

-----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
Van: Indology [mailto:INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk] Namens Ulrich T. Kragh
Verzonden: vrijdag 9 januari 2009 1:38
Aan: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk
Onderwerp: nakedness of female ascetics

Dear Indology-List,
I have been working on a number of 8th-9th century Buddhist Tantric texts
from NW Pakistan (Swat valley) written by female authors. One of the
sAdhanas specifies that the practitioner should keep the hair loose, keep
silent and be naked. From the context within the text, this appears to be a
general rule of behavior, and not simply an advice on how to act during the
ritual itself.
 
It made me wonder about the nakedness of female ascetics in general, whether
in the past or today. I am aware of the nakedness of some male ascetics,
such as modern-day male sAdhus and some Jain monks, but are there generally
speaking cases of female ascetics moving about naked in Buddhism, Hinduism
or Jainism? In the cases I know of today, female ascetics do not practice
nakedness. 
 
Sincerely,
Tim
 
Dr. Ulrich Timme Kragh
Assistant Professor
Geumgang Center for Buddhist Studies
Geumgang University, Dae-myeong Ri, Sang-wol Myeon
Nonsan-si, Chungnam 320-931, Republic of Korea
Tel. +82-41-731 3618




From cbpicron at GMX.DE  Mon Jan 12 12:00:41 2009
From: cbpicron at GMX.DE (Claudine Bautze-Picron)
Date: Mon, 12 Jan 09 13:00:41 +0100
Subject: Amitabha in Gandharan art
In-Reply-To: <7243E185ECEC4086B32FDA8E41E53694@VICPC>
Message-ID: <161227084447.23782.13479736449542111924.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Sorry for all those who get this mail which is for Victor: could you check
your address: the mail sent to it returned as being "undeliverable" !
Claudine.

-----Original Message-----
From: Indology [mailto:INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk] On Behalf Of victor van
Bijlert
Sent: Montag, 12. Januar 2009 12:33
To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk
Subject: Re: Amitabha in Gandharan art

My e-mail address is: victorvanbijlert at pknplanet.nl
With many thanks!!
Victor

-----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
Van: Indology [mailto:INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk] Namens Claudine
Bautze-Picron
Verzonden: maandag 12 januari 2009 12:16
Aan: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk
Onderwerp: Re: Amitabha in Gandharan art

Dear Victor,

If you give your email address, I can forward you G. Fussman's paper in pdf.
Claudine Bautze-Picron.

-----Original Message-----
From: Indology [mailto:INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk] On Behalf Of victor van
Bijlert
Sent: Montag, 12. Januar 2009 11:34
To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk
Subject: Amitabha in Gandharan art

Dear friends,

Does anyone have electronic versions of articles on the representation of
Buddha Amitabha / Amitayus in Gandharan art. I am especially looking for zn
electronic version of an article by J.C.Huntington which appeared in the
Annali dell'Instituto Orientale di Napoli 40, 1980, but page numbers I do
not have and an article by Gerard Fussman on the Sukhavati Vyuha which
appeared in Journal Asiatique, 1999, vol 287, page 521 ff.

Perhaps also other references to depictions of Amitabha in Gandhara art. I
have the one by Gregory Schopen at my disposal.

Thanks for possible references and the trouble

Victor van Bijlert

 




From victorvanbijlert at KPNPLANET.NL  Mon Jan 12 12:09:30 2009
From: victorvanbijlert at KPNPLANET.NL (victor van Bijlert)
Date: Mon, 12 Jan 09 13:09:30 +0100
Subject: Amitabha in Gandharan art
In-Reply-To: <002401c974ad$64404e70$2cc0eb50$@de>
Message-ID: <161227084449.23782.6009236628038382740.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

I've already given the correct mail-address:
victorvanbijlert at kpnplanet.nl
sorry for the inconvenience
Victor

-----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
Van: Indology [mailto:INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk] Namens Claudine
Bautze-Picron
Verzonden: maandag 12 januari 2009 13:01
Aan: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk
Onderwerp: Re: Amitabha in Gandharan art

Sorry for all those who get this mail which is for Victor: could you check
your address: the mail sent to it returned as being "undeliverable" !
Claudine.

-----Original Message-----
From: Indology [mailto:INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk] On Behalf Of victor van
Bijlert
Sent: Montag, 12. Januar 2009 12:33
To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk
Subject: Re: Amitabha in Gandharan art

My e-mail address is: victorvanbijlert at pknplanet.nl
With many thanks!!
Victor

-----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
Van: Indology [mailto:INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk] Namens Claudine
Bautze-Picron
Verzonden: maandag 12 januari 2009 12:16
Aan: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk
Onderwerp: Re: Amitabha in Gandharan art

Dear Victor,

If you give your email address, I can forward you G. Fussman's paper in pdf.
Claudine Bautze-Picron.

-----Original Message-----
From: Indology [mailto:INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk] On Behalf Of victor van
Bijlert
Sent: Montag, 12. Januar 2009 11:34
To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk
Subject: Amitabha in Gandharan art

Dear friends,

Does anyone have electronic versions of articles on the representation of
Buddha Amitabha / Amitayus in Gandharan art. I am especially looking for zn
electronic version of an article by J.C.Huntington which appeared in the
Annali dell'Instituto Orientale di Napoli 40, 1980, but page numbers I do
not have and an article by Gerard Fussman on the Sukhavati Vyuha which
appeared in Journal Asiatique, 1999, vol 287, page 521 ff.

Perhaps also other references to depictions of Amitabha in Gandhara art. I
have the one by Gregory Schopen at my disposal.

Thanks for possible references and the trouble

Victor van Bijlert

 




From toke_knudsen at MAC.COM  Mon Jan 12 21:20:34 2009
From: toke_knudsen at MAC.COM (Toke Lindegaard Knudsen)
Date: Mon, 12 Jan 09 16:20:34 -0500
Subject: Contact information for Dr. Sadananda Sukla
Message-ID: <161227084458.23782.9147319965911954914.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Dear Indologists,

Would anyone happen to know the contact information for Dr. Sadananda  
Sukla (sadAnanda zukla), who is a Reader in the Jyotisa Department at  
Sampurnanand Sanskrit University in Varanasi?

Many thanks.

Sincerely,
Toke




From gthomgt at COMCAST.NET  Wed Jan 14 21:42:20 2009
From: gthomgt at COMCAST.NET (George Thompson)
Date: Wed, 14 Jan 09 16:42:20 -0500
Subject: Gita
In-Reply-To: <19BCA90CBCB9483AB60F7391FF9C789B@VICPC>
Message-ID: <161227084462.23782.16978099059012680671.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Victor,

I will send you a copy.  Will you kindly send a copy of the review to me 
when it appears?

Thanks for your interest,

George

victor van Bijlert wrote:

>If you send me a review copy, I would review it for the journal on
>comparative religious studies from the Free University Amsterdam.
>
>My postal address is:
>
>Burg.Patijnlaan 1062
>
>2585 CE Den Haag
>
>The Netherlands
>
>Cheers
>
>Victor
>
> 
>
>
>  
>




From fritsstaal at BERKELEY.EDU  Thu Jan 15 02:43:34 2009
From: fritsstaal at BERKELEY.EDU (FRITS STAAL)
Date: Wed, 14 Jan 09 18:43:34 -0800
Subject: Gita
In-Reply-To: <496E5C3C.1060200@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <161227084465.23782.8640753306965422450.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Good for the Dutch provincial and very religious universities (fortunately
very few of them) to learn something new...
> Victor,
>
> I will send you a copy.  Will you kindly send a copy of the review to me
> when it appears?
>
> Thanks for your interest,
>
> George
>
> victor van Bijlert wrote:
>
>>If you send me a review copy, I would review it for the journal on
>>comparative religious studies from the Free University Amsterdam.
>>
>>My postal address is:
>>
>>Burg.Patijnlaan 1062
>>
>>2585 CE Den Haag
>>
>>The Netherlands
>>
>>Cheers
>>
>>Victor
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>


Frits Staal

http://philosophy.berkeley.edu/staal




From victorvanbijlert at KPNPLANET.NL  Wed Jan 14 18:10:32 2009
From: victorvanbijlert at KPNPLANET.NL (victor van Bijlert)
Date: Wed, 14 Jan 09 19:10:32 +0100
Subject: the west
Message-ID: <161227084460.23782.3379717228398224094.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Could anyone provide a few references to Sanskrit texts (Brahmanas,
Aranyakas, Shrautasutras, Shulbasutras) in which the West as point of the
compass has any symbolic meaning as the place of death or as an inauscipious
or impure direction. Early tantra references would also be welcome.

Thanks a lot for the previous references on Buddha Amitabha.

Warm greetings

Victor van Bijlert

 




From 171318 at SOAS.AC.UK  Thu Jan 15 08:13:02 2009
From: 171318 at SOAS.AC.UK (LEON Goldman)
Date: Thu, 15 Jan 09 08:13:02 +0000
Subject: Sanskrit arthavant-
Message-ID: <161227084470.23782.8773744693303938722.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Dear List members,

Would anyone know if Skt. arthavant- ever occurs in a legal context to mean
'plaintiff' or 'defendant' or 'litigant' (lit. 'one characterised by the
artha- or lawsuit)?
I ask because in Avestan we find arethauuant- and arethamant- (both hapax
legomena) used in such a context, though with somewhat unclear meanings. I
was hoping a Sanskrit parallel might help to shed some light on these forms.
With thanks,
Leon Goldman (PhD candidate, SOAS).




From jpo at UTS.CC.UTEXAS.EDU  Thu Jan 15 14:20:19 2009
From: jpo at UTS.CC.UTEXAS.EDU (Patrick Olivelle)
Date: Thu, 15 Jan 09 08:20:19 -0600
Subject: Sanskrit arthavant-
In-Reply-To: <2291e7730901150013o22c977e5s843cff1bf28a05a@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <161227084472.23782.7029768459461112205.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Leon:

Artha, of course, is a common word in the legal texts for a lawsuit. 
I cannot remember coming across arthavat, but the related term arthin 
is very common for a litigant.

Patrick Olivelle


>Dear List members,
>
>Would anyone know if Skt. arthavant- ever occurs in a legal context to mean
>'plaintiff' or 'defendant' or 'litigant' (lit. 'one characterised by the
>artha- or lawsuit)?
>I ask because in Avestan we find arethauuant- and arethamant- (both hapax
>legomena) used in such a context, though with somewhat unclear meanings. I
>was hoping a Sanskrit parallel might help to shed some light on these forms.
>With thanks,
>Leon Goldman (PhD candidate, SOAS).




From dbhattacharya2004 at YAHOO.CO.IN  Thu Jan 15 03:32:36 2009
From: dbhattacharya2004 at YAHOO.CO.IN (Dipak Bhattacharya)
Date: Thu, 15 Jan 09 09:02:36 +0530
Subject: the west
In-Reply-To: <B23854FE7C304978B8F0ECFC8734F0A6@VICPC>
Message-ID: <161227084467.23782.4790725874383862190.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

15 01 09
Dear Victor,
Some such observations will be found in S.S.Dange's 'Quarters in the Vedic ritual tradition', p.87 Traividyam : Vedic Studies in Memory of Durgamohan Bhattacharyya, Subarnarekha, Kolkata 2001
DB
?
--- On Wed, 14/1/09, victor van Bijlert <victorvanbijlert at KPNPLANET.NL> wrote:

From: victor van Bijlert <victorvanbijlert at KPNPLANET.NL>
Subject: the west
To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk
Date: Wednesday, 14 January, 2009, 11:40 PM

Could anyone provide a few references to Sanskrit texts (Brahmanas,
Aranyakas, Shrautasutras, Shulbasutras) in which the West as point of the
compass has any symbolic meaning as the place of death or as an inauscipious
or impure direction. Early tantra references would also be welcome.

Thanks a lot for the previous references on Buddha Amitabha.

Warm greetings

Victor van Bijlert

 



      Unlimited freedom, unlimited storage. Get it now, on http://help.yahoo.com/l/in/yahoo/mail/yahoomail/tools/tools-08.html/




From annamisia at YAHOO.COM  Thu Jan 15 18:41:26 2009
From: annamisia at YAHOO.COM (Anna A. Slaczka)
Date: Thu, 15 Jan 09 10:41:26 -0800
Subject: Gita
In-Reply-To: <496F36E40200003A0004D9BB@ntgwgate.loc.gov>
Message-ID: <161227084484.23782.8253554628902635948.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Dear Allen,

The Hindus in the Netherlands are for the major part of Surinamese origin. The forefathers of the 'Hindustani' (both Hindu and Moslims) living in the Netherlands today emigrated between 1873 and 1916 to the Dutch colony of Suriname (Dutch Guyana until 1948) as contract labourers. In 1975, when Suriname became independent, many Surinamese Hindus migrated to the Netherlands. The estimated number of the Hindus of Surinamese origin in the Netherlands is between 80.000 and 100.000. This is much more than the Hindus from the Subcontinent (perhaps under 15.000 thousand at the Netherlands at the moment).
I don't have at the moment access to the library, so I can't tell what's the number of Hindus of Indonesian origin in the Netherlands, but I guess it's much lower than the number of Hindus from Suriname. 

Best regards,

Anna Slaczka

Kern Institute
Leiden


--- On Thu, 1/15/09, Allen W Thrasher <athr at LOC.GOV> wrote:

> From: Allen W Thrasher <athr at LOC.GOV>
> Subject: Re: Gita
> To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk
> Date: Thursday, January 15, 2009, 7:15 PM
> Victor, 
> 
> You said,
> 
> " And this in spite of the fact
> that Hinduism is the second largest non-Christian religion
> in the
> Netherlands with approximately between 120,000 to 200,000
> adherents."
> 
> 
> I presume the largest is Islam.  Does this mean there are
> more Hindus than Jews?
> 
> Also, is it known how many are Hindus of Balinese or other
> Indonesian origin and how many from the subcontinent?
> 
> Allen
> 
> 
> Allen W. Thrasher, Ph.D.
> Senior Reference Librarian
> Team Coordinator
> South Asia Team, Asian Division
> Library of Congress, Jefferson Building 150
> 101 Independence Ave., S.E.
> Washington, DC 20540-4810
> tel. 202-707-3732; fax 202-707-1724; athr at loc.gov
> The opinions expressed do not necessarily reflect those of
> the Library of Congress.


      




From annamisia at YAHOO.COM  Thu Jan 15 18:44:14 2009
From: annamisia at YAHOO.COM (Anna A. Slaczka)
Date: Thu, 15 Jan 09 10:44:14 -0800
Subject: Gita
In-Reply-To: <25E3608909964662A377FEF24EF03EDB@VICPC>
Message-ID: <161227084486.23782.13341810513884213110.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

I see that Victor and I answered almost at the same time. The numbers I gave are indeed from the 80s and there certainly is a need for a new census.

Anna Slaczka.


--- On Thu, 1/15/09, victor van Bijlert <victorvanbijlert at KPNPLANET.NL> wrote:

> From: victor van Bijlert <victorvanbijlert at KPNPLANET.NL>
> Subject: Re: Gita
> To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk
> Date: Thursday, January 15, 2009, 7:30 PM
> It is correct that the largest non-Christian religion is
> Islam with an
> estimated 800,000 to a million adherents. The Hindus
> certainly outnumber the
> Jews. The large majority of Hindus in the Netherlands are
> migrants from
> Surinam, a former Dutch colony on the Northern coast of
> Brazil. These Hindus
> (in Dutch referred to as Hindostanis) actually came to
> Surinam as bonded
> contract-labourers from the United Provinces mainly,
> between roughly 1870 to
> 1919. Among these labourers about 80 percent was Hindu, and
> the rest were
> Muslims, with a few Sikhs in between. In the seventies of
> the twentieth
> century many of these Surinamese Hindustanis migrated to
> the Netherlands.
> Hence we find many people in the Netherlands of Indian
> origin, not from
> Bali. But as we did not have any censuses taken in the
> Netherlands since the
> early eighties, exact numbers cannot be given.
> 
> Victor
> 
> 
> -----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
> Van: Indology [mailto:INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk] Namens
> Allen W Thrasher
> Verzonden: donderdag 15 januari 2009 19:15
> Aan: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk
> Onderwerp: Re: Gita
> 
> Victor, 
> 
> You said,
> 
> " And this in spite of the fact
> that Hinduism is the second largest non-Christian religion
> in the
> Netherlands with approximately between 120,000 to 200,000
> adherents."
> 
> 
> I presume the largest is Islam.  Does this mean there are
> more Hindus than
> Jews?
> 
> Also, is it known how many are Hindus of Balinese or other
> Indonesian origin
> and how many from the subcontinent?
> 
> Allen
> 
> 
> Allen W. Thrasher, Ph.D.
> Senior Reference Librarian
> Team Coordinator
> South Asia Team, Asian Division
> Library of Congress, Jefferson Building 150
> 101 Independence Ave., S.E.
> Washington, DC 20540-4810
> tel. 202-707-3732; fax 202-707-1724; athr at loc.gov
> The opinions expressed do not necessarily reflect those of
> the Library of
> Congress.


      




From annamisia at YAHOO.COM  Thu Jan 15 20:29:59 2009
From: annamisia at YAHOO.COM (Anna A. Slaczka)
Date: Thu, 15 Jan 09 12:29:59 -0800
Subject: Surinam Hindustani pubs. (Was: Gita)
In-Reply-To: <20090115T150426Z_AE4F00170000@loc.gov>
Message-ID: <161227084497.23782.14194211700576038779.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Dear Allen,
As far as I know there isn't much, if any. Sarnami is slowly being replaced by the Dutch, especially in the youngest generation. Hindus from Suriname understand also Hindi, thanks to the Bollywood films for example. I think that one can buy Sarnami books on 'popular subjects' in the 'Indian shops' in The Hague or Rotterdam, but I never tried that. There was (and still is?) a news program called 'Sarnami Magazine' in Sarnami language, but the magazine (paper) of the Surinam Hindus, Lalla Rookh, is published in Dutch. 

Best regards,

Anna Slaczka.


--- On Thu, 1/15/09, Allen W Thrasher <athr at LOC.GOV> wrote:

> From: Allen W Thrasher <athr at LOC.GOV>
> Subject: Surinam Hindustani pubs. (Was: Gita)
> To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk
> Date: Thursday, January 15, 2009, 9:04 PM
> Anna and Victor,
> 
> Do either of you know, or know who would know, whether
> there is much publishing in Surinam Hindustani (Sarnami) in
> the Netherlands, and where to acquire it?
> 
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> 
> Allen
> 
> Allen W. Thrasher, Ph.D.
> Senior Reference Librarian
> Team Coordinator
> South Asia Team, Asian Division
> Library of Congress, Jefferson Building 150
> 101 Independence Ave., S.E.
> Washington, DC 20540-4810
> tel. 202-707-3732; fax 202-707-1724; athr at loc.gov
> The opinions expressed do not necessarily reflect those of
> the Library of Congress.


      




From athr at LOC.GOV  Thu Jan 15 18:15:16 2009
From: athr at LOC.GOV (Allen W Thrasher)
Date: Thu, 15 Jan 09 13:15:16 -0500
Subject: Gita
In-Reply-To: <48B88B89FA5344C88C5C6C5CC0E9624B@VICPC>
Message-ID: <161227084477.23782.11660772489253232253.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Victor, 

You said,

" And this in spite of the fact
that Hinduism is the second largest non-Christian religion in the
Netherlands with approximately between 120,000 to 200,000 adherents."


I presume the largest is Islam.  Does this mean there are more Hindus than Jews?

Also, is it known how many are Hindus of Balinese or other Indonesian origin and how many from the subcontinent?

Allen


Allen W. Thrasher, Ph.D.
Senior Reference Librarian
Team Coordinator
South Asia Team, Asian Division
Library of Congress, Jefferson Building 150
101 Independence Ave., S.E.
Washington, DC 20540-4810
tel. 202-707-3732; fax 202-707-1724; athr at loc.gov
The opinions expressed do not necessarily reflect those of the Library of Congress.




From tccahill at LOYNO.EDU  Thu Jan 15 19:18:55 2009
From: tccahill at LOYNO.EDU (tccahill)
Date: Thu, 15 Jan 09 13:18:55 -0600
Subject: Gita
Message-ID: <161227084489.23782.2647091980988237740.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Hi George!

   Well, I've got 11 students for an advanced course in
Hinduism and they're all going to read you translation of
the Gita.  Last semester there were 30 in my Intro class so
if your royalties take a dip that may be why.

   BTW, Fritz Staal seems to be losing his marbles. I was
reading a set of essays in which he had a short piece. Very
bizarre. Have  you noticed this?

   Also, send these type of messages *directly* --not via
the list. My INBOX is jammed enough!  And how much snow do
you have?  Hope you've been able to recover after that stint
w/out electricity.  Guess it's been pretty cold though, from
what I've heard.

take care,
Tim



----- Original Message Follows -----
From: George Thompson <gthomgt at COMCAST.NET>
To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk
Subject: Re: Gita
Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2009 16:42:20 -0500

> Victor,
> 
> I will send you a copy.  Will you kindly send a copy of
> the review to me  when it appears?
> 
> Thanks for your interest,
> 
> George
> 
> victor van Bijlert wrote:
> 
> >If you send me a review copy, I would review it for the
> journal on >comparative religious studies from the Free
> University Amsterdam. >
> >My postal address is:
> >
> >Burg.Patijnlaan 1062
> >
> >2585 CE Den Haag
> >
> >The Netherlands
> >
> >Cheers
> >
> >Victor
> >
> > 
> >
> >
> >  
> >




From gthomgt at COMCAST.NET  Thu Jan 15 18:31:36 2009
From: gthomgt at COMCAST.NET (George Thompson)
Date: Thu, 15 Jan 09 13:31:36 -0500
Subject: Gita
In-Reply-To: <61544.61.19.65.133.1231987414.squirrel@calmail.berkeley.edu>
Message-ID: <161227084481.23782.9933625836745849673.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Dear List,

A few list members have mentioned Callewaert & Shilanand: 
*Bhagavadgiitaanuvaada: A Study in Transcultural Translation*, 1982.  I 
was familiar with this, along with Kapoor's *Bhagavad-Giitaa: An 
International Bibliography of 1785-1979*, 1983.  These cite hundreds of 
translations.

But these do not cover the last thirty years of research and 
translation, and for this reason I have solicited more recent 
references. I know that at least a half dozen list members have 
translated the Gita during this time.  The most recent one cited in the 
book under review is Peter Schreiner's of 1991: Bhagavad-Gita.  Wege und 
Weisungen uebersetzt und eingeleitet von P. Schreiner. 

In her recent translation of the Gita, Laurie Patton counts over 1,800 
translations in more than 75 languages from all over the world.  She 
also counts more than 3,000 articles on the Gita in the last 200 years. 

I assume that if we were to confine ourselves to works produced by 
scholars, these numbers would become more manageable.

I thank all list members who have responded to my query so far.

George Thompson




From tccahill at LOYNO.EDU  Thu Jan 15 19:58:00 2009
From: tccahill at LOYNO.EDU (tccahill)
Date: Thu, 15 Jan 09 13:58:00 -0600
Subject: Gita - apologies
Message-ID: <161227084491.23782.14616243192431580851.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Dear Indologists,

   Apologies to all for my recent message, which was meant
to be private. And please note that I'm prone to gross
overstatement in some of my casual correspondence! No
offense or disrespect intended.

mea culpa,
Tim Cahill

----- Original Message Follows -----
From: tccahill <tccahill at loyno.edu>
To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk
Subject: Re: Gita
Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2009 13:18:55 -0600
 
>    Well, I've got 11 students for an advanced course in
> Hinduism and they're all going to read you translation of
> the Gita.  Last semester there were 30 in my Intro class
> so if your royalties take a dip that may be why.




From athr at LOC.GOV  Thu Jan 15 20:00:32 2009
From: athr at LOC.GOV (Allen W Thrasher)
Date: Thu, 15 Jan 09 15:00:32 -0500
Subject: Gita
Message-ID: <161227084493.23782.3350591734697495482.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Thanks to Victor and Anna for their useful explanations of the Hindu population of the Netherlands.

Allen



Allen W. Thrasher, Ph.D.
Senior Reference Librarian
Team Coordinator
South Asia Team, Asian Division
Library of Congress, Jefferson Building 150
101 Independence Ave., S.E.
Washington, DC 20540-4810
tel. 202-707-3732; fax 202-707-1724; athr at loc.gov
The opinions expressed do not necessarily reflect those of the Library of Congress.




From athr at LOC.GOV  Thu Jan 15 20:04:26 2009
From: athr at LOC.GOV (Allen W Thrasher)
Date: Thu, 15 Jan 09 15:04:26 -0500
Subject: Surinam Hindustani pubs. (Was: Gita)
Message-ID: <161227084495.23782.11870819028559273232.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Anna and Victor,

Do either of you know, or know who would know, whether there is much publishing in Surinam Hindustani (Sarnami) in the Netherlands, and where to acquire it?


Thanks,


Allen

Allen W. Thrasher, Ph.D.
Senior Reference Librarian
Team Coordinator
South Asia Team, Asian Division
Library of Congress, Jefferson Building 150
101 Independence Ave., S.E.
Washington, DC 20540-4810
tel. 202-707-3732; fax 202-707-1724; athr at loc.gov
The opinions expressed do not necessarily reflect those of the Library of Congress.




From athr at LOC.GOV  Thu Jan 15 22:34:58 2009
From: athr at LOC.GOV (Allen W Thrasher)
Date: Thu, 15 Jan 09 17:34:58 -0500
Subject: Surinam Hindustani pubs. (Was: Gita)
Message-ID: <161227084501.23782.606472230481722227.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Victor,

I'd be very grateful if you could get the information.  LOC has several works by Damsteegt and one by Gajadin, but not the ones you mention.

Thanks,

Allen

>>> victor van Bijlert <victorvanbijlert at KPNPLANET.NL> 1/15/2009 5:25:36 PM >>>

The Hindu broadcast OHM publishes a magazine every three months announcing
their programmes. Some of the writing in the magazine called OHM Vani is in
Devanagari and in Hindi. Sarnami is not much used anymore in writing. There
is a Sarnami grammar book published by my old friend Motilal Marhe and an
exercisebook for Sarnami by Theo Damsteegt and another Surinamese person
whose name at this moment slipped my memory. Then there is the poetess
Chitra Gajadin who writes in Sarnami and there is a book of poetry in
Sarnami brought out by Rajendra Ramdas. I could try to get the
bibliographical data on them.
Regards
Victor




From victorvanbijlert at KPNPLANET.NL  Thu Jan 15 17:23:50 2009
From: victorvanbijlert at KPNPLANET.NL (victor van Bijlert)
Date: Thu, 15 Jan 09 18:23:50 +0100
Subject: Gita
In-Reply-To: <61544.61.19.65.133.1231987414.squirrel@calmail.berkeley.edu>
Message-ID: <161227084474.23782.11742090728176635727.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

This sounds like a sarcastic comment. Perhaps there is some truth to it, but
on the other hand, for a dept. devoted to religious studies, it would not be
unusual to review a fresh translation of a well-known religious document
like the Bhagavad Gita.

Often I noticed the tendency in religious studies to be on two tracks: a
purely critical one and one in which one is also a bit of a believer. This
is discernible in many Dutch universities. But I do not think this is
typical of the Netherlands. In the USA we find very similar tendencies. So I
do take a little exception to the qualifications 'provincial and very
religious'. 

Rather one does observe some political correctness in certain academic
quarters, especially regarding modern Islam. As far as contemporary Hinduism
is concerned, I have not seen much political correctness in the Netherlands.
In fact, there is very little genuine academic interest in modern Hinduism,
with the emphasis on genuine and academic. And this in spite of the fact
that Hinduism is the second largest non-Christian religion in the
Netherlands with approximately between 120,000 to 200,000 adherents.

Even for policy-makers Hinduism hardly exists whereas Islam is a thing much
studied. There is a study-document on religions in the Netherlands,
published in 2005 by the Dutch Scientific Council for Government-policy. The
book contains 515 pages, 5 out of which are devoted to Hinduism and 2 to
Buddhism. The rest is taken up by Islam, indigenous Christianity, migrant
Christianity and some Judaism. 

I apologise to burden this list with these facts but I felt, I should reply
to the challenge thrown out by Prof Staal.

-----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
Van: Indology [mailto:INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk] Namens FRITS STAAL
Verzonden: donderdag 15 januari 2009 3:44
Aan: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk
Onderwerp: Re: Gita

Good for the Dutch provincial and very religious universities (fortunately
very few of them) to learn something new...
> Victor,
>
> I will send you a copy.  Will you kindly send a copy of the review to me
> when it appears?
>
> Thanks for your interest,
>
> George
>
> victor van Bijlert wrote:
>
>>If you send me a review copy, I would review it for the journal on
>>comparative religious studies from the Free University Amsterdam.
>>
>>My postal address is:
>>
>>Burg.Patijnlaan 1062
>>
>>2585 CE Den Haag
>>
>>The Netherlands
>>
>>Cheers
>>
>>Victor
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>


Frits Staal

http://philosophy.berkeley.edu/staal




From victorvanbijlert at KPNPLANET.NL  Thu Jan 15 18:30:36 2009
From: victorvanbijlert at KPNPLANET.NL (victor van Bijlert)
Date: Thu, 15 Jan 09 19:30:36 +0100
Subject: Gita
In-Reply-To: <496F36E40200003A0004D9BB@ntgwgate.loc.gov>
Message-ID: <161227084479.23782.6740868302274381822.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

It is correct that the largest non-Christian religion is Islam with an
estimated 800,000 to a million adherents. The Hindus certainly outnumber the
Jews. The large majority of Hindus in the Netherlands are migrants from
Surinam, a former Dutch colony on the Northern coast of Brazil. These Hindus
(in Dutch referred to as Hindostanis) actually came to Surinam as bonded
contract-labourers from the United Provinces mainly, between roughly 1870 to
1919. Among these labourers about 80 percent was Hindu, and the rest were
Muslims, with a few Sikhs in between. In the seventies of the twentieth
century many of these Surinamese Hindustanis migrated to the Netherlands.
Hence we find many people in the Netherlands of Indian origin, not from
Bali. But as we did not have any censuses taken in the Netherlands since the
early eighties, exact numbers cannot be given.

Victor


-----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
Van: Indology [mailto:INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk] Namens Allen W Thrasher
Verzonden: donderdag 15 januari 2009 19:15
Aan: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk
Onderwerp: Re: Gita

Victor, 

You said,

" And this in spite of the fact
that Hinduism is the second largest non-Christian religion in the
Netherlands with approximately between 120,000 to 200,000 adherents."


I presume the largest is Islam.  Does this mean there are more Hindus than
Jews?

Also, is it known how many are Hindus of Balinese or other Indonesian origin
and how many from the subcontinent?

Allen


Allen W. Thrasher, Ph.D.
Senior Reference Librarian
Team Coordinator
South Asia Team, Asian Division
Library of Congress, Jefferson Building 150
101 Independence Ave., S.E.
Washington, DC 20540-4810
tel. 202-707-3732; fax 202-707-1724; athr at loc.gov
The opinions expressed do not necessarily reflect those of the Library of
Congress.




From victorvanbijlert at KPNPLANET.NL  Thu Jan 15 22:25:36 2009
From: victorvanbijlert at KPNPLANET.NL (victor van Bijlert)
Date: Thu, 15 Jan 09 23:25:36 +0100
Subject: Surinam Hindustani pubs. (Was: Gita)
In-Reply-To: <20090115T150426Z_AE4F00170000@loc.gov>
Message-ID: <161227084499.23782.16656246503833224014.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

The Hindu broadcast OHM publishes a magazine every three months announcing
their programmes. Some of the writing in the magazine called OHM Vani is in
Devanagari and in Hindi. Sarnami is not much used anymore in writing. There
is a Sarnami grammar book published by my old friend Motilal Marhe and an
exercisebook for Sarnami by Theo Damsteegt and another Surinamese person
whose name at this moment slipped my memory. Then there is the poetess
Chitra Gajadin who writes in Sarnami and there is a book of poetry in
Sarnami brought out by Rajendra Ramdas. I could try to get the
bibliographical data on them.
Regards
Victor


-----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
Van: Indology [mailto:INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk] Namens Allen W Thrasher
Verzonden: donderdag 15 januari 2009 21:04
Aan: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk
Onderwerp: Surinam Hindustani pubs. (Was: Gita)

Anna and Victor,

Do either of you know, or know who would know, whether there is much
publishing in Surinam Hindustani (Sarnami) in the Netherlands, and where to
acquire it?


Thanks,


Allen

Allen W. Thrasher, Ph.D.
Senior Reference Librarian
Team Coordinator
South Asia Team, Asian Division
Library of Congress, Jefferson Building 150
101 Independence Ave., S.E.
Washington, DC 20540-4810
tel. 202-707-3732; fax 202-707-1724; athr at loc.gov
The opinions expressed do not necessarily reflect those of the Library of
Congress.




From victorvanbijlert at KPNPLANET.NL  Thu Jan 15 23:21:24 2009
From: victorvanbijlert at KPNPLANET.NL (victor van Bijlert)
Date: Fri, 16 Jan 09 00:21:24 +0100
Subject: Surinam Hindustani pubs. (Was: Gita)
In-Reply-To: <20090115T173458Z_AE4F00170000@loc.gov>
Message-ID: <161227084503.23782.112194435948986745.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Here are some references:
Chitra Gajadin: Kab je Yad, Van wanneer een herinnering. Den Haag:
Nederlandse Bibliotheek en Lektuur Centrum, 1984. ISBN 9062523617

Jit Narain, Dal Bhat Chatni.1977 No publisher. I think he published this
himself. It is quite a long book with 135 pages of Sarnami and Dutch poems.

Underneath the Sarnami title and the name of the author: Raj Ramdas. At the
email address you should be able to get the information on how to order a
copy. I cannot yet find the ISBN number.
Kah?n hai u
Door Raj Ramdas - Uitgeverij Maya Rotterdam 2003
info at houseofmaya.nl

Victor


-----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
Van: Indology [mailto:INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk] Namens Allen W Thrasher
Verzonden: donderdag 15 januari 2009 23:35
Aan: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk
Onderwerp: Re: Surinam Hindustani pubs. (Was: Gita)

Victor,

I'd be very grateful if you could get the information.  LOC has several
works by Damsteegt and one by Gajadin, but not the ones you mention.

Thanks,

Allen

>>> victor van Bijlert <victorvanbijlert at KPNPLANET.NL> 1/15/2009 5:25:36 PM
>>>

The Hindu broadcast OHM publishes a magazine every three months announcing
their programmes. Some of the writing in the magazine called OHM Vani is in
Devanagari and in Hindi. Sarnami is not much used anymore in writing. There
is a Sarnami grammar book published by my old friend Motilal Marhe and an
exercisebook for Sarnami by Theo Damsteegt and another Surinamese person
whose name at this moment slipped my memory. Then there is the poetess
Chitra Gajadin who writes in Sarnami and there is a book of poetry in
Sarnami brought out by Rajendra Ramdas. I could try to get the
bibliographical data on them.
Regards
Victor




From victorvanbijlert at KPNPLANET.NL  Thu Jan 15 23:24:06 2009
From: victorvanbijlert at KPNPLANET.NL (victor van Bijlert)
Date: Fri, 16 Jan 09 00:24:06 +0100
Subject: Surinam Hindustani pubs. (Was: Gita)
In-Reply-To: <20090115T173458Z_AE4F00170000@loc.gov>
Message-ID: <161227084506.23782.9188582833892001911.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

On the last publication I can add the following:
Rotterdam: Uitgeverij Maya.
ISBN 90-806084-2-4
Victor
-----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
Van: Indology [mailto:INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk] Namens Allen W Thrasher
Verzonden: donderdag 15 januari 2009 23:35
Aan: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk
Onderwerp: Re: Surinam Hindustani pubs. (Was: Gita)

Victor,

I'd be very grateful if you could get the information.  LOC has several
works by Damsteegt and one by Gajadin, but not the ones you mention.

Thanks,

Allen

>>> victor van Bijlert <victorvanbijlert at KPNPLANET.NL> 1/15/2009 5:25:36 PM
>>>

The Hindu broadcast OHM publishes a magazine every three months announcing
their programmes. Some of the writing in the magazine called OHM Vani is in
Devanagari and in Hindi. Sarnami is not much used anymore in writing. There
is a Sarnami grammar book published by my old friend Motilal Marhe and an
exercisebook for Sarnami by Theo Damsteegt and another Surinamese person
whose name at this moment slipped my memory. Then there is the poetess
Chitra Gajadin who writes in Sarnami and there is a book of poetry in
Sarnami brought out by Rajendra Ramdas. I could try to get the
bibliographical data on them.
Regards
Victor




From victorvanbijlert at KPNPLANET.NL  Fri Jan 16 08:52:03 2009
From: victorvanbijlert at KPNPLANET.NL (victor van Bijlert)
Date: Fri, 16 Jan 09 09:52:03 +0100
Subject: FW: Surinam Hindustani pubs. (Was: Gita)
Message-ID: <161227084510.23782.2303522823006945534.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

-----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
Van: victor van Bijlert [mailto:victorvanbijlert at kpnplanet.nl] 
Verzonden: vrijdag 16 januari 2009 0:34
Aan: 'Indology'
Onderwerp: RE: Surinam Hindustani pubs. (Was: Gita)

Kab je Yad is wrong. Must be Kab ke Yad.

-----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
Van: Indology [mailto:INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk] Namens victor van Bijlert
Verzonden: vrijdag 16 januari 2009 0:21
Aan: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk
Onderwerp: Re: Surinam Hindustani pubs. (Was: Gita)

Here are some references:
Chitra Gajadin: Kab je Yad, Van wanneer een herinnering. Den Haag:
Nederlandse Bibliotheek en Lektuur Centrum, 1984. ISBN 9062523617

Jit Narain, Dal Bhat Chatni.1977 No publisher. I think he published this
himself. It is quite a long book with 135 pages of Sarnami and Dutch poems.

Underneath the Sarnami title and the name of the author: Raj Ramdas. At the
email address you should be able to get the information on how to order a
copy. I cannot yet find the ISBN number.
Kah?n hai u
Door Raj Ramdas - Uitgeverij Maya Rotterdam 2003
info at houseofmaya.nl

Victor


-----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
Van: Indology [mailto:INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk] Namens Allen W Thrasher
Verzonden: donderdag 15 januari 2009 23:35
Aan: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk
Onderwerp: Re: Surinam Hindustani pubs. (Was: Gita)

Victor,

I'd be very grateful if you could get the information.  LOC has several
works by Damsteegt and one by Gajadin, but not the ones you mention.

Thanks,

Allen

>>> victor van Bijlert <victorvanbijlert at KPNPLANET.NL> 1/15/2009 5:25:36 PM
>>>

The Hindu broadcast OHM publishes a magazine every three months announcing
their programmes. Some of the writing in the magazine called OHM Vani is in
Devanagari and in Hindi. Sarnami is not much used anymore in writing. There
is a Sarnami grammar book published by my old friend Motilal Marhe and an
exercisebook for Sarnami by Theo Damsteegt and another Surinamese person
whose name at this moment slipped my memory. Then there is the poetess
Chitra Gajadin who writes in Sarnami and there is a book of poetry in
Sarnami brought out by Rajendra Ramdas. I could try to get the
bibliographical data on them.
Regards
Victor




From dbhattacharya2004 at YAHOO.CO.IN  Fri Jan 16 04:59:06 2009
From: dbhattacharya2004 at YAHOO.CO.IN (Dipak Bhattacharya)
Date: Fri, 16 Jan 09 10:29:06 +0530
Subject: Gita
In-Reply-To: <61544.61.19.65.133.1231987414.squirrel@calmail.berkeley.edu>
Message-ID: <161227084508.23782.15566681937372472640.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

<Dutch provincial and very religious universities (fortunately very few of them)>
Should one really feel fortunate that institutions with religious orientation?are few? Many make a living out of research on their activities and on thoughts upon which they have been built up.?No matter they are of another denomination, it is the genre that supplies bread and butter to philologists, to some at least.??Hitting the branch of the tree on which one sits?
Also the tongue-in-cheek delibearation may be accompanied with sermon on some ideal that can be safe from it. That will render "Indology"?into a proper theological forum.
DB


--- On Thu, 15/1/09, FRITS STAAL <fritsstaal at BERKELEY.EDU> wrote:

From: FRITS STAAL <fritsstaal at BERKELEY.EDU>
Subject: Re: Gita
To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk
Date: Thursday, 15 January, 2009, 8:13 AM

Good for the Dutch provincial and very religious universities (fortunately
very few of them) to learn something new...
> Victor,
>
> I will send you a copy.  Will you kindly send a copy of the review to me
> when it appears?
>
> Thanks for your interest,
>
> George
>
> victor van Bijlert wrote:
>
>>If you send me a review copy, I would review it for the journal on
>>comparative religious studies from the Free University Amsterdam.
>>
>>My postal address is:
>>
>>Burg.Patijnlaan 1062
>>
>>2585 CE Den Haag
>>
>>The Netherlands
>>
>>Cheers
>>
>>Victor
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>


Frits Staal

http://philosophy.berkeley.edu/staal



      Add more friends to your messenger and enjoy! Go to http://messenger.yahoo.com/invite/




From rsalomon at U.WASHINGTON.EDU  Fri Jan 16 19:07:27 2009
From: rsalomon at U.WASHINGTON.EDU (Richard Salomon)
Date: Fri, 16 Jan 09 11:07:27 -0800
Subject: Gita
Message-ID: <161227084517.23782.585743662917293682.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

"Hitting the branch of the tree on which one sits" (below) sounds like it 
could be a Brueghelian proverb - can you find it in the big painting?

Or, on second thought, maybe it's  a Nepali proverb.

Or both.

RIch


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Dipak Bhattacharya" <dbhattacharya2004 at YAHOO.CO.IN>
To: <INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk>
Sent: Thursday, January 15, 2009 8:59 PM
Subject: Re: Gita


<Dutch provincial and very religious universities (fortunately very few of 
them)>
Should one really feel fortunate that institutions with religious 
orientation are few? Many make a living out of research on their activities 
and on thoughts upon which they have been built up. No matter they are of 
another denomination, it is the genre that supplies bread and butter to 
philologists, to some at least. Hitting the branch of the tree on which one 
sits?
Also the tongue-in-cheek delibearation may be accompanied with sermon on 
some ideal that can be safe from it. That will render "Indology" into a 
proper theological forum.
DB


--- On Thu, 15/1/09, FRITS STAAL <fritsstaal at BERKELEY.EDU> wrote:

From: FRITS STAAL <fritsstaal at BERKELEY.EDU>
Subject: Re: Gita
To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk
Date: Thursday, 15 January, 2009, 8:13 AM

Good for the Dutch provincial and very religious universities (fortunately
very few of them) to learn something new...
> Victor,
>
> I will send you a copy.  Will you kindly send a copy of the review to me
> when it appears?
>
> Thanks for your interest,
>
> George
>
> victor van Bijlert wrote:
>
>>If you send me a review copy, I would review it for the journal on
>>comparative religious studies from the Free University Amsterdam.
>>
>>My postal address is:
>>
>>Burg.Patijnlaan 1062
>>
>>2585 CE Den Haag
>>
>>The Netherlands
>>
>>Cheers
>>
>>Victor
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>


Frits Staal

http://philosophy.berkeley.edu/staal



      Add more friends to your messenger and enjoy! Go to 
http://messenger.yahoo.com/invite/




From rsalomon at U.WASHINGTON.EDU  Fri Jan 16 19:10:35 2009
From: rsalomon at U.WASHINGTON.EDU (Richard Salomon)
Date: Fri, 16 Jan 09 11:10:35 -0800
Subject: Gita
Message-ID: <161227084519.23782.12523472141062591393.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Oops, sorry, my previous message was supposed to be private -- please 
disregard!

RS

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Richard Salomon" <rsalomon at U.WASHINGTON.EDU>
To: <INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk>
Sent: Friday, January 16, 2009 11:07 AM
Subject: Re: Gita


> "Hitting the branch of the tree on which one sits" (below) sounds like it 
> could be a Brueghelian proverb - can you find it in the big painting?
>
> Or, on second thought, maybe it's  a Nepali proverb.
>
> Or both.
>
> RIch
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Dipak Bhattacharya" <dbhattacharya2004 at YAHOO.CO.IN>
> To: <INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk>
> Sent: Thursday, January 15, 2009 8:59 PM
> Subject: Re: Gita
>
>
> <Dutch provincial and very religious universities (fortunately very few of 
> them)>
> Should one really feel fortunate that institutions with religious 
> orientation are few? Many make a living out of research on their 
> activities and on thoughts upon which they have been built up. No matter 
> they are of another denomination, it is the genre that supplies bread and 
> butter to philologists, to some at least. Hitting the branch of the tree 
> on which one sits?
> Also the tongue-in-cheek delibearation may be accompanied with sermon on 
> some ideal that can be safe from it. That will render "Indology" into a 
> proper theological forum.
> DB
>
>
> --- On Thu, 15/1/09, FRITS STAAL <fritsstaal at BERKELEY.EDU> wrote:
>
> From: FRITS STAAL <fritsstaal at BERKELEY.EDU>
> Subject: Re: Gita
> To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk
> Date: Thursday, 15 January, 2009, 8:13 AM
>
> Good for the Dutch provincial and very religious universities (fortunately
> very few of them) to learn something new...
>> Victor,
>>
>> I will send you a copy.  Will you kindly send a copy of the review to me
>> when it appears?
>>
>> Thanks for your interest,
>>
>> George
>>
>> victor van Bijlert wrote:
>>
>>>If you send me a review copy, I would review it for the journal on
>>>comparative religious studies from the Free University Amsterdam.
>>>
>>>My postal address is:
>>>
>>>Burg.Patijnlaan 1062
>>>
>>>2585 CE Den Haag
>>>
>>>The Netherlands
>>>
>>>Cheers
>>>
>>>Victor
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>
>
> Frits Staal
>
> http://philosophy.berkeley.edu/staal
>
>
>
>      Add more friends to your messenger and enjoy! Go to 
> http://messenger.yahoo.com/invite/
> 




From athr at LOC.GOV  Fri Jan 16 20:04:46 2009
From: athr at LOC.GOV (Allen W Thrasher)
Date: Fri, 16 Jan 09 15:04:46 -0500
Subject: Gita
Message-ID: <161227084521.23782.2740009885948789276.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

I once saw a nice contemporary poster illustrating a lot of British or British-American proverbs in the window of a closed business (not a poster shop, alas).  Unfortunately I couldn't get the publication information and have never seen it since.  If anyone knows of it please contact me.

Oops!  I think it must have been one of the three Proverbidioms of T.E. Breitenbach, visible at < http://www.tebreitenbach.com/gallery/index.htm >.  He also has several other rather Brueghelian or maybe Boschian posters available.  Time to order for the bath room.

Allen

""Hitting the branch of the tree on which one sits" (below) sounds like it 
could be a Brueghelian proverb - can you find it in the big painting?

Or, on second thought, maybe it's  a Nepali proverb.

Or both.

RIch"




From ucgadkw at UCL.AC.UK  Fri Jan 16 15:26:59 2009
From: ucgadkw at UCL.AC.UK (Dominik Wujastyk)
Date: Fri, 16 Jan 09 15:26:59 +0000
Subject: IFPINFO 148: Palmes              Acad=?ISO-8859-15?Q?=E9miques_d=E9cern=E9es_au_Pandit_S._SAMBANDAN_/_=AB_Palmes_Acad=E9miques_=BB?=              awarded to Pandit S. SAMBANDAN (fwd)
Message-ID: <161227084512.23782.5524851996829883115.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2009 09:17:55 +0530
From: ComDirIFP <ifpcom at ifpindia.org>
Subject: IFPINFO 148: Palmes Acad?miques d?cern?es au Pandit S. SAMBANDAN / ?
     Palmes Acad?miques ? awarded to Pandit S. SAMBANDAN


Palmes Acad?miques d?cern?es au Pandit S. SAMBANDAN


En reconnaissance ? sa contribution exemplaire au d?veloppement de la
recherche en Indologie, notamment ? l?Institut Fran?ais de Pondich?ry (IFP),
le Pandit S. SAMBANDAN s'est vu remettre les Palmes Acad?miques par Son
Excellence M. J?r?me BONNAFONT, Ambassadeur de France en Inde, ? l?occasion
d?une r?ception  qui fut tenu pour cela, le 7 janvier 2009 au Consulat
G?n?ral de France ? Pondich?ry.



Le Pandit S. SAMBANDAN a  rejoint l?IFP en 1969.  Sous la direction du
Pandit N.R. BHATT, il a contribu? de mani?re importante ? la collecte et ? l
??tude des manuscrits shiva?tes sur feuille de palme, pr?serv?s ? l?IFP et
r?cemment  enregistr?s dans le registre de la M?moire du Monde de l?UNESCO.
Il a aussi d?s son arriv?e, particip? activement ? la pr?paration d??ditions
critiques de Saivagama-s et il est actuellement responsable du projet
d'?dition du Suksmagama



V?layoudom Marimoutou



? Palmes Acad?miques ? awarded to Pandit S. SAMBANDAN



In recognition of his exemplary contribution to the development of research
in Indology, notably at the French Institute of Pondicherry (IFP), Pandit S.
SAMBANDAN received the "Palmes Acad?miques" award from His Excellency Mr.
J?r?me BONNAFONT, Ambassador of France in India, during a reception that was
held on that occasion on January 7, 2009, at the French Consulate in
Pondicherry.



Pandit S. SAMBANDAN joined the IFP in 1969. Under the supervision of Pandit.
N.R. BHATT, he contributed extensively to the collection and study of Saiva
manuscripts on palm leaves preserved at the IFP and recently registered in
the Memory of the World register of the UNESCO. He also, upon arrival,
actively participated in the preparation of critical editions of the
Saivagama-s, and he is currently in charge of the edition project of the
Suksmagama.



Velayoudom Marimoutou



________________________________________________

Prof. Velayoudom MARIMOUTOU
Directeur / Director
Institut Fran?ais de Pondich?ry
French Institute of Pondicherry
UMIFRE 21 CNRS-MAE
11, St. Louis Street
Pondicherry 605001
INDIA
Phone Sec: +91 413 2222497
Fax: +91 413 2339534
Email: ifpdir at ifpindia.org
Web: www.ifpindia.org













From d.plukker at INTER.NL.NET  Fri Jan 16 15:26:49 2009
From: d.plukker at INTER.NL.NET (Dick Plukker)
Date: Fri, 16 Jan 09 16:26:49 +0100
Subject: Surinam Hindustani pubs. (Was: Gita)
Message-ID: <161227084514.23782.11314186122349431061.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Dear Allan,

At 15:04 15-1-2009 -0500, you wrote:
>Anna and Victor,
>
>Do either of you know, or know who would know, whether there is much 
>publishing in Surinam Hindustani (Sarnami) in the Netherlands, and 
>where to acquire it?
>
>Allen W. Thrasher, Ph.D.
>Senior Reference Librarian
<...>

You might want to check

A history of literature in the Caribbean. Vol. 2, English- and 
Dutch-speaking regions
by  A. James Arnold, Vera M. Kutzinski, Ineke Phaf-Rheinberger, 2001,
Amsterdam : [Great Britain] : J. Benjamins, ISBN: 9027234485.

Some more Sarnami writers, not yet mentioned in this thread, are

Rahman Khan, Santokhi, Shrinivasi, Candani.

A recent publication, published in the Netherlands:

Raj Mohan, Bapauti / Erfenis. Gedichten. Haarlem: In de Knipscheer, 
2008. ISBN 9789062655991.
(Poems in Sarnami, with a Dutch translation by the author).

Dick Plukker




From ssandahl at SYMPATICO.CA  Sat Jan 17 19:21:32 2009
From: ssandahl at SYMPATICO.CA (Stella Sandahl)
Date: Sat, 17 Jan 09 14:21:32 -0500
Subject: Proverb
In-Reply-To: <20090116T150446Z_AE4F00170000@loc.gov>
Message-ID: <161227084526.23782.18424603848254310130.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Sawing off the branch one is sitting on is a Swedish proverb also. So  
it is probably universal.
I had a jigsaw puzzle with the Brueghel painting in question, but I  
have given it away so I can't verify.
Best to all
Stella
--
Stella Sandahl
ssandahl at sympatico.ca



On 16-Jan-09, at 3:04 PM, Allen W Thrasher wrote:

> I once saw a nice contemporary poster illustrating a lot of British  
> or British-American proverbs in the window of a closed business  
> (not a poster shop, alas).  Unfortunately I couldn't get the  
> publication information and have never seen it since.  If anyone  
> knows of it please contact me.
>
> Oops!  I think it must have been one of the three Proverbidioms of  
> T.E. Breitenbach, visible at < http://www.tebreitenbach.com/gallery/ 
> index.htm >.  He also has several other rather Brueghelian or maybe  
> Boschian posters available.  Time to order for the bath room.
>
> Allen
>
> ""Hitting the branch of the tree on which one sits" (below) sounds  
> like it
> could be a Brueghelian proverb - can you find it in the big painting?
>
> Or, on second thought, maybe it's  a Nepali proverb.
>
> Or both.
>
> RIch"




From jean-luc.chevillard at UNIV-PARIS-DIDEROT.FR  Sat Jan 17 19:19:29 2009
From: jean-luc.chevillard at UNIV-PARIS-DIDEROT.FR (Jean-Luc Chevillard)
Date: Sat, 17 Jan 09 20:19:29 +0100
Subject: Kamil V. Zvelebil [17 nov 1927  --  17 jan 2009]
Message-ID: <161227084523.23782.12466844751883937048.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

The sad news included below has appeared today
on the MinTamil list.


Professor Zvelebil was certainly the greatest non-Tamil specialist of
Tamil literature in the 20th century


-- Jean-Luc Chevillard (Paris)


-------- Message original --------

Sujet : 	[MinTamil] ???????????? ????????? ????? ???????? ?????? ?????????!

Date : 	Sat, 17 Jan 2009 10:22:41 -0800 (PST)

De : 	?? ????????? <muelangovan at gmail.com>

Pour : 	????????? <minTamil at googlegroups.com>



[...]

Dear DR,Elangovan

Dear dr, Elongovan, I just want to inform you that my husband Kamil
Zvelebil died 17th of January

yours

N. Zvelebil.




From pf8 at SOAS.AC.UK  Sun Jan 18 11:25:35 2009
From: pf8 at SOAS.AC.UK (Peter Flugel)
Date: Sun, 18 Jan 09 11:25:35 +0000
Subject: JAINA SCRIPTURES AND PHILOSOPHY (11th JAINA STUDIES WORKSHOP AT              SOAS, 12-13 MARCH 2009)
Message-ID: <161227084530.23782.11400699396171872113.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

JAINA SCRIPTURES AND PHILOSOPHY

(11th JAINA STUDIES WORKSHOP AT SOAS, 12-13 MARCH 2009)
  *Thursday 12.3.2009, 18.00-19.30, Brunei Gallery Lecture Theatre*
*Schoolof Orientaland African Studies, Russell Square
*



THE 9th ANNUAL JAINA LECTURE

(followed by a reception)



Bansidhar Bhatt

(University of M?nster)



Is P?r?va the Twenty-Third Jina a Legendary Figure?

A Critical Survey of Early Jaina Sources




*Friday 13.3.2009, 9.00-18.30, SOAS, Russell Square, Brunei Gallery Lecture
Theatre*



CONFERENCE



9.0              Tea and Coffee



9.15     Welcome


9.30     Prem Suman Jain (?rava?abe?ago?a)
One Rare Manuscript of the Prakrit Text Bhagavat? ?r?dhan?



10.00   Sin Fujinaga (Miyakonojo, Miyazaki)

?vet?mbara ?gamas in the Digambara Scriptures



10.30   Jayendra Soni (University of Marburg)

Aspects of Philosophy in the ?a?kha???gama



11.00   Tea and Coffee



11.30   Piotr Balcerowicz (University of Warsaw)

Do Attempts to Formalise *Sy?d-v?da* Make Sense?


12.00   Anne Clavel (University of Lyon)
Sensuous Cognition - *Pratyak?a* or *Parok?a*? Jinabhadra's Reading of the
Nand?s?tra


12.30   Olle Qvarnstr?m (University of Lund)
Jaina Critique of S??khya Philosophy



13.00   Lunch, Brunei Gallery Suite


14.00   Nalini Balbir (University of Paris)
Layman's Atonements: The S?vayapacchitta and the Shr?ddhaj?takalpa


14.30   Paul Dundas (University of Edinburgh)
Pokkhali's Visit to the Fasting Hall: The Ramifications of a Canonical
Episode


15.00   Kenji Watanabe (Tokyo)
A   Bee and Mendicant: Two Different Versions in  the Extant Jaina ?gamas



16.00   Tea and Coffee



16.30   Johannes Bronkhorst (University of Lausanne)

What Happened to Mah?v?ra's Body?**


17.00   Herman Tieken (Leiden University)
The Composition of the Uttarajjh?y?


17.30   Peter Fl?gel (SOAS)
Reflections on the Origins of the Jaina Doctrine of Karman



18.00   Final Remarks


All Welcome!

Contact: Centre of Jaina Studies,
Department for the Study of Religions,
Faculty of Arts and Humanities,
SOAS, Thornhaugh Street, Russell Square,
London WC1H OXG,
Phone: 7898 4028, E-mail: js64 at soas.ac.uk

Co-organised and co-sponsored by the Centre of Jaina Studies at SOAS (
http://www.soas.ac.uk/jainastudies),
Centre for Theology and Religious Studies at the University of Lund (
www.sasnet.lu.se/indrellund.html), and the
Victoria and Albert Museum in London (www.vam.ac.uk).




-- 
Dr Peter Fl?gel
Department of the Study of Religions
Faculty of Arts and Humanities
School of Oriental and African Studies
University of London
Thornhaugh Street
Russell Square
London WC1H OXG
Tel.: (+44-20) 7898 4776
E-mail: pf8 at soas.ac.uk




From pf8 at SOAS.AC.UK  Sun Jan 18 12:07:10 2009
From: pf8 at SOAS.AC.UK (Peter Flugel)
Date: Sun, 18 Jan 09 12:07:10 +0000
Subject: Victoria and Albert Museum Jain Art Fund
Message-ID: <161227084533.23782.1507952204606162779.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Dear All,

The Victoria and Albert Museum Jain Art Fund offers grants to support
study, research or training in the field of Jain cultural, historical
and art historical studies. They will support both Indian-based scholars
and museum curators spending time in the UK, and UK-based scholars and
curators visiting India for study and research purposes.

There are scholarships available in four different categories: please
see the website of the Nehru Trust for the Indian Collections at the
V&A: www.nticva.org

We welcome applications. The deadline for applications is 31 January
for grants from April 2009-2010. However, if you make an expression of
interest to Rosemary Crill r.crill at vam.ac.uk or Nick Barnard
n.barnard at vam.ac.uk by 31 January we will be able to hold the
deadline for a week or two, as we realise the time is short.

With thanks,
Nick Barnard
Victoria and Albert Museum'

-- 
Dr Peter Fl?gel
Department of the Study of Religions
Faculty of Arts and Humanities
School of Oriental and African Studies
University of London
Thornhaugh Street
Russell Square
London WC1H OXG
Tel.: (+44-20) 7898 4776
E-mail: pf8 at soas.ac.uk




From pf8 at SOAS.AC.UK  Sun Jan 18 12:12:30 2009
From: pf8 at SOAS.AC.UK (Peter Flugel)
Date: Sun, 18 Jan 09 12:12:30 +0000
Subject: Victoria and Albert Museum Jain Art Fund
Message-ID: <161227084535.23782.9365020255268612746.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Dear All,
The Victoria and Albert Museum Jain Art Fund offers grants to support
study, research or training in the field of Jain cultural, historical
and art historical studies. They will support both Indian-based scholars
and museum curators spending time in the UK, and UK-based scholars and
curators visiting India for study and research purposes.
There are scholarships available in four different categories: please
see the website of the Nehru Trust for the Indian Collections at the
V&A: www.nticva.org
We welcome applications. The deadline for applications is 31 January
for grants from April 2009-2010. However, if you make an expression of
interest to Rosemary Crill r.crill at vam.ac.uk or Nick Barnard
n.barnard at vam.ac.uk by 31 January we will be able to hold the
deadline for a week or two, as we realise the time is short.
With thanks,
Nick Barnard
Victoria and Albert Museum

-- 
Dr Peter Fl?gel
Department of the Study of Religions
Faculty of Arts and Humanities
School of Oriental and African Studies
University of London
Thornhaugh Street
Russell Square
London WC1H OXG
Tel.: (+44-20) 7898 4776
E-mail: pf8 at soas.ac.uk




From pf8 at SOAS.AC.UK  Sun Jan 18 12:15:47 2009
From: pf8 at SOAS.AC.UK (Peter Flugel)
Date: Sun, 18 Jan 09 12:15:47 +0000
Subject: SOAS Jaina Studies MA Scholarship 2009
Message-ID: <161227084537.23782.1102822027122502342.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

SOAS JAINA STUDIES MA SCHOLARSHIP 2009

This award is sponsored by Jain Spirit. The total value of this scholarship
is ?5000, and it is awarded to students registered at SOAS for an MA degree
with a major in Jaina Studies. Applications by letter, accompanied by a
short CV, should be submitted by e-mail to the Centre of Jaina Studies at
the Department of the Study of Religions at SOAS, University of London
before September 2009.

Contact:
Dr Peter Fl?gel
jainstudies at soas.ac.uk


-- 
Dr Peter Fl?gel
Department of the Study of Religions
Faculty of Arts and Humanities
School of Oriental and African Studies
University of London
Thornhaugh Street
Russell Square
London WC1H OXG
Tel.: (+44-20) 7898 4776
E-mail: pf8 at soas.ac.uk




From dbhattacharya2004 at YAHOO.CO.IN  Sun Jan 18 10:58:28 2009
From: dbhattacharya2004 at YAHOO.CO.IN (Dipak Bhattacharya)
Date: Sun, 18 Jan 09 16:28:28 +0530
Subject: Kamil V. Zvelebil [17 nov 1927  --  17 jan 2009]
In-Reply-To: <49722F41.30500@univ-paris-diderot.fr>
Message-ID: <161227084528.23782.13491221228028519274.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Dear Professor Chevillard,
I am sorry that your name was not properly written in the address
DB

--- On Sun, 18/1/09, Jean-Luc Chevillard <jean-luc.chevillard at UNIV-PARIS-DIDEROT.FR> wrote:

From: Jean-Luc Chevillard <jean-luc.chevillard at UNIV-PARIS-DIDEROT.FR>
Subject: Kamil V. Zvelebil [17 nov 1927 -- 17 jan 2009]
To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk
Date: Sunday, 18 January, 2009, 12:49 AM

The sad news included below has appeared today
on the MinTamil list.


Professor Zvelebil was certainly the greatest non-Tamil specialist of
Tamil literature in the 20th century


-- Jean-Luc Chevillard (Paris)


-------- Message original --------

Sujet : 	[MinTamil] ????????????
????????? ????? ????????
?????? ?????????!

Date : 	Sat, 17 Jan 2009 10:22:41 -0800 (PST)

De : 	?? ????????? <muelangovan at gmail.com>

Pour : 	????????? <minTamil at googlegroups.com>



[...]

Dear DR,Elangovan

Dear dr, Elongovan, I just want to inform you that my husband Kamil
Zvelebil died 17th of January

yours

N. Zvelebil.



      Explore your hobbies and interests. Go to http://in.promos.yahoo.com/groups/




From m_orelskaya at YAHOO.COM  Tue Jan 20 03:12:29 2009
From: m_orelskaya at YAHOO.COM (marina orelskaya)
Date: Mon, 19 Jan 09 19:12:29 -0800
Subject: e-mail address of Saroja Bhate
In-Reply-To: <838220.51239.qm@web55904.mail.re3.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <161227084539.23782.670513672182094016.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Dear colleagues,

I urgently need the latest e-mail address and telephone number of Dr.Saroja Bhate. The ones I have seem not to be working anymore.
If someone sends them to me off the list, I would be highly obliged.

Best wishes,

Marina Orelskaya.




      




From baums at U.WASHINGTON.EDU  Tue Jan 20 08:44:49 2009
From: baums at U.WASHINGTON.EDU (Stefan Baums)
Date: Tue, 20 Jan 09 00:44:49 -0800
Subject: invertebrates
In-Reply-To: <3545ae9af8a6ae02c73dfd962eb9f37a.squirrel@webmail.uoa.gr>
Message-ID: <161227084544.23782.14674029567013733561.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Dear Alexandra van der Geer,

Manohar Laxman Varadpande, Woman in Indian sculpture, p. 94

    http://www.worldcat.org/oclc/72992587

refers to a fifth?century sculpture from Uttar Pradesh (now in the Indian Museum, Kolkata) of a girl in a hurry with a scorpion on her thigh (unfortunately not clearly visible on his plate 44). There must be more.

Best wishes,
Stefan Baums

-- 
Stefan Baums
Asian Languages and Literature
University of Washington




From annamisia at YAHOO.COM  Tue Jan 20 08:50:26 2009
From: annamisia at YAHOO.COM (Anna A. Slaczka)
Date: Tue, 20 Jan 09 00:50:26 -0800
Subject: invertebrates
In-Reply-To: <3545ae9af8a6ae02c73dfd962eb9f37a.squirrel@webmail.uoa.gr>
Message-ID: <161227084546.23782.11364878725888057631.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Hi Sandra,

The Visvabrahma temple in Alampur apparently has a sculpture of a crab (illustration for the story of the heron and the crab). The story of 'The brahman and the crab' seems to be illustrated on several South Indian temples. See: Channabasappa S. Patil in: Marijke Klokke (ed.), Narrative sculpture and literary traditions in South and Southeast Asia, Brill, 2000, p. 86 and 83-4 (resp.), and the bibliography given there.

Anna.

Anna A. Slaczka
Kern Institute
Leiden University
The Netherlands


--- On Tue, 1/20/09, Alexandra Vandergeer <geeraae at GEOL.UOA.GR> wrote:

> From: Alexandra Vandergeer <geeraae at GEOL.UOA.GR>
> Subject: invertebrates
> To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk
> Date: Tuesday, January 20, 2009, 8:01 AM
> Dear members of the list,
> 
> Is anyone aware of a stone sculpture from India sensu lato
> on which
> somewhere an invertebrate animal has been sculpted? I know
> only of a
> Chamunda with a scorpion in her sunken belly.
> 
> Alexandra van der Geer
> 
> NB for the very, very non-zoologist: invertebrates are
> molluscs, insects,
> spiders, medusas, crabs and lobsters and that sort of
> animals.
> 
> -- 
> Dr Alexandra van der Geer
> Museum of Paleontology and Geology
> Faculty of Geology
> National and Kapodistrian University of Athens
> Panepistimiopolis
> 157 84 Zografou
> Athens, Greece


      




From annamisia at YAHOO.COM  Tue Jan 20 08:58:15 2009
From: annamisia at YAHOO.COM (Anna A. Slaczka)
Date: Tue, 20 Jan 09 00:58:15 -0800
Subject: invertebrates
In-Reply-To: <3545ae9af8a6ae02c73dfd962eb9f37a.squirrel@webmail.uoa.gr>
Message-ID: <161227084548.23782.7771907466445987581.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Plus, of course, there is the mysterious scorpion on the famous Eran sculpture of varaaha.

Anna.


--- On Tue, 1/20/09, Alexandra Vandergeer <geeraae at GEOL.UOA.GR> wrote:

> From: Alexandra Vandergeer <geeraae at GEOL.UOA.GR>
> Subject: invertebrates
> To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk
> Date: Tuesday, January 20, 2009, 8:01 AM
> Dear members of the list,
> 
> Is anyone aware of a stone sculpture from India sensu lato
> on which
> somewhere an invertebrate animal has been sculpted? I know
> only of a
> Chamunda with a scorpion in her sunken belly.
> 
> Alexandra van der Geer
> 
> NB for the very, very non-zoologist: invertebrates are
> molluscs, insects,
> spiders, medusas, crabs and lobsters and that sort of
> animals.
> 
> -- 
> Dr Alexandra van der Geer
> Museum of Paleontology and Geology
> Faculty of Geology
> National and Kapodistrian University of Athens
> Panepistimiopolis
> 157 84 Zografou
> Athens, Greece


      




From annamisia at YAHOO.COM  Tue Jan 20 12:53:40 2009
From: annamisia at YAHOO.COM (Anna A. Slaczka)
Date: Tue, 20 Jan 09 04:53:40 -0800
Subject: invertebrates
In-Reply-To: <3545ae9af8a6ae02c73dfd962eb9f37a.squirrel@webmail.uoa.gr>
Message-ID: <161227084555.23782.1204184748216978797.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Dear Sandra,
Sorry, but every now and then I remember something new...
The Sringeri temple has pillars with 12 zodiac signs. It's been such a long time that I've been there that I don't remember whether there was a pillar with a cancer sign, but I would expect it. Perhaps it's good to look for other zodiac-representations in India. There should be at least a few more.
Best regards,
Anna Slaczka.


--- On Tue, 1/20/09, Alexandra Vandergeer <geeraae at GEOL.UOA.GR> wrote:

> From: Alexandra Vandergeer <geeraae at GEOL.UOA.GR>
> Subject: invertebrates
> To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk
> Date: Tuesday, January 20, 2009, 8:01 AM
> Dear members of the list,
> 
> Is anyone aware of a stone sculpture from India sensu lato
> on which
> somewhere an invertebrate animal has been sculpted? I know
> only of a
> Chamunda with a scorpion in her sunken belly.
> 
> Alexandra van der Geer
> 
> NB for the very, very non-zoologist: invertebrates are
> molluscs, insects,
> spiders, medusas, crabs and lobsters and that sort of
> animals.
> 
> -- 
> Dr Alexandra van der Geer
> Museum of Paleontology and Geology
> Faculty of Geology
> National and Kapodistrian University of Athens
> Panepistimiopolis
> 157 84 Zografou
> Athens, Greece


      




From cardonagj at EARTHLINK.NET  Tue Jan 20 10:55:22 2009
From: cardonagj at EARTHLINK.NET (George Cardona)
Date: Tue, 20 Jan 09 05:55:22 -0500
Subject: e-mail address of Saroja Bhate
Message-ID: <161227084551.23782.3151312819755073375.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

The address I have for her is: saroja at bhates.net.  I hope this is still active.  George Cardona

-----Original Message-----
>From: marina orelskaya <m_orelskaya at YAHOO.COM>
>Sent: Jan 19, 2009 10:12 PM
>To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk
>Subject: e-mail address of Saroja Bhate
>
>Dear colleagues,
>
>I urgently need the latest e-mail address and telephone number of Dr.Saroja Bhate. The ones I have seem not to be working anymore.
>If someone sends them to me off the list, I would be highly obliged.
>
>Best wishes,
>
>Marina Orelskaya.
>
>
>
>
>      




From mmdesh at UMICH.EDU  Tue Jan 20 12:04:51 2009
From: mmdesh at UMICH.EDU (Deshpande, Madhav)
Date: Tue, 20 Jan 09 07:04:51 -0500
Subject: e-mail address of Saroja Bhate
In-Reply-To: <3013301.1232448922585.JavaMail.root@mswamui-chipeau.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <161227084553.23782.3641665204690312559.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

The best way to contact Dr. Saroja Bhate these days is to email to: bori1 at vsnl.net .  Specify in the subject-line:  "Message for Dr. Bhate."  She is the current secretary of the Bhandarkar Institute.  I was recently in Pune and she responded to my emails sent to the Institute's email address.  Best,

Madhav Deshpande
________________________________________
From: Indology [INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk] On Behalf Of George Cardona [cardonagj at EARTHLINK.NET]
Sent: Tuesday, January 20, 2009 5:55 AM
To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk
Subject: Re: e-mail address of Saroja Bhate

The address I have for her is: saroja at bhates.net.  I hope this is still active.  George Cardona

-----Original Message-----
>From: marina orelskaya <m_orelskaya at YAHOO.COM>
>Sent: Jan 19, 2009 10:12 PM
>To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk
>Subject: e-mail address of Saroja Bhate
>
>Dear colleagues,
>
>I urgently need the latest e-mail address and telephone number of Dr.Saroja Bhate. The ones I have seem not to be working anymore.
>If someone sends them to me off the list, I would be highly obliged.
>
>Best wishes,
>
>Marina Orelskaya.
>
>
>
>
>




From mkapstei at UCHICAGO.EDU  Tue Jan 20 13:27:51 2009
From: mkapstei at UCHICAGO.EDU (mkapstei at UCHICAGO.EDU)
Date: Tue, 20 Jan 09 07:27:51 -0600
Subject: invertebrates
Message-ID: <161227084557.23782.8951137299408734253.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

The image of the girl with the scorpion on her thigh
is known from Khajuraho and has been discussed at
some length in articles by Devangana Desai and Michael
Rabe (in the Journal of Tantric Studies), 
who consider it to be a sort of rebus for
the name Khajuraho itself (scorpion = kharjuura).

The zodiac signs, as I recall, are often met with 
as pillar decorations at early Buddhist sites -- there is
a series at Bodh Gaya, for instance, and, I believe, Sanchi.

Matthew T. Kapstein
Numata Visiting Professor of Buddhist Studies
The University of Chicago Divinity School

Directeur d'?tudes
Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes, Paris




From geeraae at GEOL.UOA.GR  Tue Jan 20 07:01:52 2009
From: geeraae at GEOL.UOA.GR (Alexandra Vandergeer)
Date: Tue, 20 Jan 09 09:01:52 +0200
Subject: invertebrates
In-Reply-To: <175904.63317.qm@web30702.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <161227084541.23782.8559314867623865368.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Dear members of the list,

Is anyone aware of a stone sculpture from India sensu lato on which
somewhere an invertebrate animal has been sculpted? I know only of a
Chamunda with a scorpion in her sunken belly.

Alexandra van der Geer

NB for the very, very non-zoologist: invertebrates are molluscs, insects,
spiders, medusas, crabs and lobsters and that sort of animals.

-- 
Dr Alexandra van der Geer
Museum of Paleontology and Geology
Faculty of Geology
National and Kapodistrian University of Athens
Panepistimiopolis
157 84 Zografou
Athens, Greece




From baums at U.WASHINGTON.EDU  Tue Jan 20 23:09:10 2009
From: baums at U.WASHINGTON.EDU (Stefan Baums)
Date: Tue, 20 Jan 09 15:09:10 -0800
Subject: invertebrates
In-Reply-To: <660ee0c8c4071912587a12be9cdfbbf6.squirrel@webmail.uoa.gr>
Message-ID: <161227084567.23782.6242510139642178476.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Dear Alexandra,

> I wonder, does the sculpture refer to a 'daily life scene' (most
> likely in my view), does it illustrate as it were a story, local
> belief etc.?

according to the author (I came across this book at random), the subject is an 
abhisArikA nAyikA (woman rushing to meet her lover). While that makes me think 
more of Mughal-period miniature painting, the term abhisArikA does occur in 
KAlidAsa, so I wouldn't rule out that it was an established category in Gupta 
art. The author takes the scorpion as a symbol of passion, but without any argument for this interpretation. The article by Desai and Rabe mentioned by Matthew Kapstein may be more promising, though apparently the Indian Museum sculpture is not from Khajuraho (but somewhere in UP), and earlier than the Khajuraho temple complex, so the anagram-rebus theory would not necessarily work here.

All best and good luck with this!

Stefan

-- 
Stefan Baums
Asian Languages and Literature
University of Washington




From geeraae at GEOL.UOA.GR  Tue Jan 20 14:21:24 2009
From: geeraae at GEOL.UOA.GR (Alexandra Vandergeer)
Date: Tue, 20 Jan 09 16:21:24 +0200
Subject: invertebrates
In-Reply-To: <823853.40758.qm@web55902.mail.re3.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <161227084560.23782.11463825488965912795.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Seems I missed that one, I was focussing too much on the boar itself, I'm
afraid!

Thanks for the update,

Alexandra

> Plus, of course, there is the mysterious scorpion on the famous Eran
> sculpture of varaaha.
>
> Anna.
>
>
> --- On Tue, 1/20/09, Alexandra Vandergeer <geeraae at GEOL.UOA.GR> wrote:
>
>> From: Alexandra Vandergeer <geeraae at GEOL.UOA.GR>
>> Subject: invertebrates
>> To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk
>> Date: Tuesday, January 20, 2009, 8:01 AM
>> Dear members of the list,
>>
>> Is anyone aware of a stone sculpture from India sensu lato
>> on which
>> somewhere an invertebrate animal has been sculpted? I know
>> only of a
>> Chamunda with a scorpion in her sunken belly.
>>
>> Alexandra van der Geer
>>
>> NB for the very, very non-zoologist: invertebrates are
>> molluscs, insects,
>> spiders, medusas, crabs and lobsters and that sort of
>> animals.
>>
>> --
>> Dr Alexandra van der Geer
>> Museum of Paleontology and Geology
>> Faculty of Geology
>> National and Kapodistrian University of Athens
>> Panepistimiopolis
>> 157 84 Zografou
>> Athens, Greece
>
>
>
>




From geeraae at GEOL.UOA.GR  Tue Jan 20 14:25:00 2009
From: geeraae at GEOL.UOA.GR (Alexandra Vandergeer)
Date: Tue, 20 Jan 09 16:25:00 +0200
Subject: invertebrates
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.43.0901200044490.30623@hymn33.u.washington.edu>
Message-ID: <161227084562.23782.3431224412049145607.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Sounds really interesting! I wonder, does the sculpture refer to a 'daily
life scene' (most likely in my view), does it illustrate as it were a
story, local belief etc.?

Alexandra

> Dear Alexandra van der Geer,
>
> Manohar Laxman Varadpande, Woman in Indian sculpture, p. 94
>
>     http://www.worldcat.org/oclc/72992587
>
> refers to a fifth???century sculpture from Uttar Pradesh (now in the
> Indian Museum, Kolkata) of a girl in a hurry with a scorpion on her thigh
> (unfortunately not clearly visible on his plate 44). There must be more.
>
> Best wishes,
> Stefan Baums
>
> --
> Stefan Baums
> Asian Languages and Literature
> University of Washington
>




From ucgadkw at UCL.AC.UK  Tue Jan 20 18:24:44 2009
From: ucgadkw at UCL.AC.UK (Dominik Wujastyk)
Date: Tue, 20 Jan 09 18:24:44 +0000
Subject: invertebrates
In-Reply-To: <780944.32283.qm@web55908.mail.re3.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <161227084564.23782.9838148068054451408.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Indian Planetary Images and the Tradition of Astral Magic
David Pingree
Journal of the Warburg and Courtauld Institutes, Vol. 52. (1989), pp. 
1-13.
Stable URL:
http://links.jstor.org/sici?sici=0075-4390%281989%2952%3C1%3AIPIATT%3E2.0.CO%3B2-V

This article discusses the Indian, Persian and Harranian planetary images 
and the Indian vahanas for them.  Evidence from MSS and from statues in 
the Suryanarkoyil sun temple near Thanjavur.  Crabs are not mentioned, but 
there is a very brief mention of the scorpion.

Dominik

-- 
Dr Dominik Wujastyk
Wellcome Trust Senior Research Fellow
University College London



On Tue, 20 Jan 2009, Anna A. Slaczka wrote:

> Dear Sandra,
> Sorry, but every now and then I remember something new...
> The Sringeri temple has pillars with 12 zodiac signs. It's been such a long time that I've been there that I don't remember whether there was a pillar with a cancer sign, but I would expect it. Perhaps it's good to look for other zodiac-representations in India. There should be at least a few more.
> Best regards,
> Anna Slaczka.
>
>
> --- On Tue, 1/20/09, Alexandra Vandergeer <geeraae at GEOL.UOA.GR> wrote:
>
>> From: Alexandra Vandergeer <geeraae at GEOL.UOA.GR>
>> Subject: invertebrates
>> To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk
>> Date: Tuesday, January 20, 2009, 8:01 AM
>> Dear members of the list,
>>
>> Is anyone aware of a stone sculpture from India sensu lato
>> on which
>> somewhere an invertebrate animal has been sculpted? I know
>> only of a
>> Chamunda with a scorpion in her sunken belly.
>>
>> Alexandra van der Geer
>>
>> NB for the very, very non-zoologist: invertebrates are
>> molluscs, insects,
>> spiders, medusas, crabs and lobsters and that sort of
>> animals.
>>
>> --
>> Dr Alexandra van der Geer
>> Museum of Paleontology and Geology
>> Faculty of Geology
>> National and Kapodistrian University of Athens
>> Panepistimiopolis
>> 157 84 Zografou
>> Athens, Greece
>
>
>
>




From geeraae at GEOL.UOA.GR  Wed Jan 21 08:47:05 2009
From: geeraae at GEOL.UOA.GR (Alexandra Vandergeer)
Date: Wed, 21 Jan 09 10:47:05 +0200
Subject: invertebrates
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.43.0901201509100.6295@hymn14.u.washington.edu>
Message-ID: <161227084569.23782.7665040210902580402.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Dear Stefan,

Thanks for the info. Personally, I think the abhisArikA explanation is of
the type 'wishful thinking'; some people seem to like to see more in art
works than there really is. Though, admittedly, the mating behaviour of
scorpions (see DVD of Attenborough) is strange (like most spiders and
spider-likes): after a long 'dance', the male tangles the female and holds
her thightly during the whole mating process, in an attempt to safeguard
himself for the dangerious stinging tail. It might thus give the
non-biologist the idea of a dance plus firm embracement. So an abhisArikA
explanation might work, theoretically.

Alexandra

> according to the author (I came across this book at random), the subject
> is an
> abhisArikA nAyikA (woman rushing to meet her lover). While that makes me
> think
> more of Mughal-period miniature painting, the term abhisArikA does occur
> in
> KAlidAsa, so I wouldn't rule out that it was an established category in
> Gupta
> art. The author takes the scorpion as a symbol of passion, but without any
> argument for this interpretation. The article by Desai and Rabe mentioned
> by Matthew Kapstein may be more promising, though apparently the Indian
> Museum sculpture is not from Khajuraho (but somewhere in UP), and earlier
> than the Khajuraho temple complex, so the anagram-rebus theory would not
> necessarily work here.
>
> All best and good luck with this!
>
> Stefan
>
> --
> Stefan Baums
> Asian Languages and Literature
> University of Washington
>




From athr at LOC.GOV  Wed Jan 21 18:02:25 2009
From: athr at LOC.GOV (Allen W Thrasher)
Date: Wed, 21 Jan 09 13:02:25 -0500
Subject: invertebrates
In-Reply-To: <3545ae9af8a6ae02c73dfd962eb9f37a.squirrel@webmail.uoa.gr>
Message-ID: <161227084572.23782.8262164205616195084.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

I am not aware of any other stone sculptures, or sculptures in other materials, but it may be of some interest that I once saw in a Red Fort antique shop a tiny silver cup, the size you see in Mughal miniatures, with insects and reptiles in the vertical ribs of the outside, each with eyes of tiny chip diamonds.  Unfortunately I hesitated before buying it and when a few days later I decided to get it and telegraphed it was already gone.  I remember clearly a serpent (not a cobra), a lizard, and a butterfly; I don't remember the rest, which would probably have totalled about eight.

Has anyone seen anything like this?  A ritual object, or just an artistic jeu d'esprit?


Allen


Allen W. Thrasher, Ph.D.
Senior Reference Librarian
Team Coordinator
South Asia Team, Asian Division
Library of Congress, Jefferson Building 150
101 Independence Ave., S.E.
Washington, DC 20540-4810
tel. 202-707-3732; fax 202-707-1724; athr at loc.gov
The opinions expressed do not necessarily reflect those of the Library of Congress.




From vjroebuck at MACUNLIMITED.NET  Wed Jan 21 18:58:57 2009
From: vjroebuck at MACUNLIMITED.NET (Valerie J Roebuck)
Date: Wed, 21 Jan 09 18:58:57 +0000
Subject: STIMW conference
Message-ID: <161227084575.23782.2616474165767269836.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

STIMW
The Sanskrit Tradition in the Modern World

25th Annual STIMW Symposium

Fri 29 May 2009 11am-5pm

University of Manchester

CALL FOR PAPERS

Offers of papers by 28 Feb 2009 please to

Dr Jacqueline Suthren Hirst
Religions and Theology, Samuel Alexander,
University of Manchester,
Oxford Road, Manchester, M13 9PL
jacqueline.hirst at manchester.ac.uk

In 2006 STIMW moved successfully to Manchester to continue to offer a 
forum for the discussion of papers on varied aspects of Indian 
religions. Papers have been presented by leading scholars in the 
field as well as by research students.  Papers are sent to 
participants in advance, so that they can be read and discussed in 
detail.  They are available to those who cannot attend for a small 
charge.


  For further details, see 
<http://www.arts.manchester.ac.uk/stimw>http://www.arts.manchester.ac.uk/stimw

To join the mailing list, please email 
<mailto:debbie.woods-2 at manchester.ac.uk>debbie.woods-2 at manchester.ac.uk




From hwtull at MSN.COM  Thu Jan 22 01:48:14 2009
From: hwtull at MSN.COM (Herman Tull)
Date: Wed, 21 Jan 09 20:48:14 -0500
Subject: lalaj-jihva
In-Reply-To: <20090108160855.BQG17960@m4500-02.uchicago.edu>
Message-ID: <161227084577.23782.13773629890966789070.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

I am looking for references to Kali's "lolling" tongue.  The Devi Mahatmya 
and the Mahabhagavata Purana (thanks to Patricia Dold for references) use 
forms of /lal + jihva (lalana/lalaj-jihva).  MW cites the Kathasaritsagara 
as a source of lalaj-jihva.  Does anyone has this citation?  Does this 
descriptive term ("lolling" tongue) occur in reference to other 
figures/goddesses?

Thanks for your help.

Herman Tull
Princeton, NJ 




From mjslouber at BERKELEY.EDU  Thu Jan 22 02:37:19 2009
From: mjslouber at BERKELEY.EDU (Michael Slouber)
Date: Thu, 22 Jan 09 08:22:19 +0545
Subject: lalaj-jihva
In-Reply-To: <BAY114-DS1ADF4EA359462DA08B2B7DBCE0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <161227084580.23782.8412339617868801440.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Many early tantras describe lolling the tongue in various contexts.   
The earliest may be the Picumata-Brahmay?mala (c.7th cent. CE) where  
there is instruction for the practitioner to loll his tongue as part  
of the ritual.  This comes up in at least half a dozen other tantras  
too.  In the Kriy?k?lagu?ottara (pre-11th cent.), lolling the  
tongue occurs in several contexts: an attribute of someone is  
possessed by a N?ga, as an attribute of Kha?gar?va?a (also in a  
mantra to cause the pi??cas to dance on his "lolajihva"), as an  
attribute of Devatr?sa, and as an attribute of a b?lagraha named  
Trida???.

Michael Slouber
PhD Candidate
South and Southeast Asian Studies
UC Berkeley


On Jan 22, 2009, at 7:33 AM, Herman Tull wrote:

> I am looking for references to Kali's "lolling" tongue.  The Devi  
> Mahatmya and the Mahabhagavata Purana (thanks to Patricia Dold for  
> references) use forms of /lal + jihva (lalana/lalaj-jihva).  MW  
> cites the Kathasaritsagara as a source of lalaj-jihva.  Does anyone  
> has this citation?  Does this descriptive term ("lolling" tongue)  
> occur in reference to other figures/goddesses?
>
> Thanks for your help.
>
> Herman Tull
> Princeton, NJ




From m_orelskaya at YAHOO.COM  Thu Jan 22 18:48:21 2009
From: m_orelskaya at YAHOO.COM (marina orelskaya)
Date: Thu, 22 Jan 09 10:48:21 -0800
Subject: S.Bhate's address
In-Reply-To: <BAY114-DS1ADF4EA359462DA08B2B7DBCE0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <161227084585.23782.4035737693967474867.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

I would like to thank everyone, who has sent me Dr. Saroja Bhate's contact information.
Thank you and Happy New Year.

Dr. Marina V. Orelskaya


      




From Bradley.clough at MSO.UMT.EDU  Thu Jan 22 20:24:40 2009
From: Bradley.clough at MSO.UMT.EDU (Bradley Clough)
Date: Thu, 22 Jan 09 13:24:40 -0700
Subject: lalaj-jihva
In-Reply-To: <BAY114-DS1ADF4EA359462DA08B2B7DBCE0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <161227084587.23782.13207139616330097361.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

On Jan 21, 2009, at 6:48 PM, Herman Tull wrote:

> I am looking for references to Kali's "lolling" tongue.  The Devi  
> Mahatmya and the Mahabhagavata Purana (thanks to Patricia Dold for  
> references) use forms of /lal + jihva (lalana/lalaj-jihva).  MW  
> cites the Kathasaritsagara as a source of lalaj-jihva.  Does anyone  
> has this citation?  Does this descriptive term ("lolling" tongue)  
> occur in reference to other figures/goddesses?
>
> Thanks for your help.
>
> Herman Tull
> Princeton, NJ

Dear Herman, Colleagues,

I believe Rachel Fell McDermott has done work on this. I don't have  
any specific references. I'm not sure if she's on Indology and will  
see this, but if she doesn't respond, try the RISA list. I know she's  
on that. I'm not sure that the following would have any of the  
references you're looking for, but there's also:

Jeffrey Kripal, "Kali's Tongue and Ramakrishna: 'Biting the Tongue' of  
the Tantric Tradition," History of Religions 34/2 (1994).


Bradley Clough
The University of Montana
bradley.clough at mso.umt.edu

  




From Loriliai.Biernacki at COLORADO.EDU  Thu Jan 22 22:11:11 2009
From: Loriliai.Biernacki at COLORADO.EDU (Loriliai Biernacki)
Date: Thu, 22 Jan 09 15:11:11 -0700
Subject: lalaj-jihva
In-Reply-To: <3964DE12-D17F-468A-8AD9-61423F71F89E@mso.umt.edu>
Message-ID: <161227084592.23782.11358431321195234264.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Dear Herman, 
    I've come across this image of the lolling tongue, mostly in meditative
visualizations in Tantric texts dating from the 15th - 18th centuries.
For an example of other goddesses with a lolling tongue, this visualization
is to the Blue Goddess of Speech, N?lasaraswat?, who is also equated with
the Goddess T?r?, & the reference is from the N?lasaraswat? Tantra
2.49 caturbhuj?? lalijjihv?? mah?bh?m?? varaprad?m |
khadgakartrisam?yuktasavyetarabhujadvay?m ||

(this entire text of the visualization is longer than this). What I found
most interesting about the visualization is the scissors that she holds and
I think I've seen an actual image of this, though I'd have to track back to
remember where exactly. I'm thinking it may be in Buhnemann's text on
visualizations, which might also be quite helpful in your specific query.

If you're interested in more than just Sanskrit textual references, (which
seems to be what you're asking for,) you might be interested to take a look
at Schweder and Menon's article on Kali in Encountering Kali.
 
All best,
Loriliai
-- 
Prof. Biernacki
Associate Professor
University of Colorado at Boulder
UCB 292
Boulder, CO 80309
303-735-4730
Loriliai.Biernacki at colorado.edu
http://www.colorado.edu/ReligiousStudies/faculty/loriliai.biernacki.html


> On Jan 21, 2009, at 6:48 PM, Herman Tull wrote:
> 
>> I am looking for references to Kali's "lolling" tongue.  The Devi
>> Mahatmya and the Mahabhagavata Purana (thanks to Patricia Dold for
>> references) use forms of /lal + jihva (lalana/lalaj-jihva).  MW
>> cites the Kathasaritsagara as a source of lalaj-jihva.  Does anyone
>> has this citation?  Does this descriptive term ("lolling" tongue)
>> occur in reference to other figures/goddesses?
>> 
>> Thanks for your help.
>> 
>> Herman Tull
>> Princeton, NJ
> 
> Dear Herman, Colleagues,
> 
> I believe Rachel Fell McDermott has done work on this. I don't have
> any specific references. I'm not sure if she's on Indology and will
> see this, but if she doesn't respond, try the RISA list. I know she's
> on that. I'm not sure that the following would have any of the
> references you're looking for, but there's also:
> 
> Jeffrey Kripal, "Kali's Tongue and Ramakrishna: 'Biting the Tongue' of
> the Tantric Tradition," History of Religions 34/2 (1994).
> 
> 
> Bradley Clough
> The University of Montana
> bradley.clough at mso.umt.edu
> 
>   




From r.mahoney at ICONZ.CO.NZ  Thu Jan 22 07:06:10 2009
From: r.mahoney at ICONZ.CO.NZ (Richard MAHONEY)
Date: Thu, 22 Jan 09 20:06:10 +1300
Subject: FONTS> Upgraded IndUni fonts
Message-ID: <161227084583.23782.16873987205236043467.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Dear Readers,

John Smith's recently updated font collection will be of interest to
some of you.


-----Forwarded Message-----
From: John Smith <jds10 at cam.ac.uk>
To: Richard MAHONEY <r.mahoney at iconz.co.nz>
Cc: John Smith <jds10 at cam.ac.uk>
Subject: IndUni fonts
Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2009 11:53:36 +0530

[snip]

I have recently created upgraded versions of my "IndUni" OpenType
fonts. These are Unicode-compliant fonts that contain a comprehensive
set of "Indological" characters, as well as all the European characters
that scholars are likely to need. They are available as freeware, and
include high-quality lookalikes for Times, Palatino, New Century
Schoolbook, Helvetica and Courier. They are based on the freeware fonts
so generously contributed by URW++ of Germany.

The upgraded fonts now contain all the accented characters specified by
MES-1, the smallest of the recognised Multilingual European Subsets of
Unicode. They also contain numerous other accented forms that linguists
tend to require (e.g. vowels with both macron and breve, vowels with
both macron and tilde), all the accented characters needed for Pinyin,
and a set of Cyrillic characters. This is, of course, in addition to
all the characters known to be used in representing Indian languages in
Roman script.

As well as a greatly enhanced character set, the new versions of the
fonts have had various small bugs fixed, and have been set up to work
with both "composed" and "decomposed" forms of complex characters --
e.g. the form for "a macron" will be used whether the document contains
the one character U+0101 ("a macron") or the two characters U+0061
("a") + U+0304 ("macron"). Since there seems to be something of a shift
in usage under way here, this is a major advantage.

The fonts can be downloaded from http://bombay.indology.info/.

John Smith


John Smith
jds10 at cam.ac.uk
http://bombay.indology.info



-- 
Richard MAHONEY | internet: http://indica-et-buddhica.org/
Littledene      | telephone/telefax (man.): +64 3 312 1699
Bay Road        | cellular: +64 275 829 986
OXFORD, NZ      | email: r.mahoney at indica-et-buddhica.org
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Indica et Buddhica: Materials for Indology and Buddhology




From Joerg.Gengnagel at URZ.UNI-HEIDELBERG.DE  Thu Jan 22 21:07:38 2009
From: Joerg.Gengnagel at URZ.UNI-HEIDELBERG.DE (Joerg Gengnagel)
Date: Thu, 22 Jan 09 22:07:38 +0100
Subject: lalaj-jihva
In-Reply-To: <BAY114-DS1ADF4EA359462DA08B2B7DBCE0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <161227084589.23782.12303714243175840977.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

This might not be directly linked to your question but since you  
mentioned other figures:
In Kashikhanda 72.94-100 64 Vetaalas are mentioned, Lalajjihva is  
included in the list.
On Sukula?s map Kashidarpana (1876) Lalajjihva is given in a spatial  
sequence as the second Vetaala of a group of eight in the east.
You might wish to see the entry on the map: www.benares.uni-hd.de (on  
map 69 - popup S92).

Best

Joerg Gengnagel

South Asia Institute, Heidelberg

Zitat von Herman Tull <hwtull at MSN.COM>:

> I am looking for references to Kali's "lolling" tongue.  The Devi
> Mahatmya and the Mahabhagavata Purana (thanks to Patricia Dold for
> references) use forms of /lal + jihva (lalana/lalaj-jihva).  MW cites
> the Kathasaritsagara as a source of lalaj-jihva.  Does anyone has this
> citation?  Does this descriptive term ("lolling" tongue) occur in
> reference to other figures/goddesses?
>
> Thanks for your help.
>
> Herman Tull
> Princeton, NJ




From vjroebuck at MACUNLIMITED.NET  Fri Jan 23 08:15:39 2009
From: vjroebuck at MACUNLIMITED.NET (Valerie J Roebuck)
Date: Fri, 23 Jan 09 08:15:39 +0000
Subject: invertebrates
In-Reply-To: <49771CE10200003A0004E139@ntgwgate.loc.gov>
Message-ID: <161227084596.23782.9259609924412278705.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

While we are pondering the question of invertebrates in South Asian 
art, it occurrs to me that I've never actually seen a representation 
of a conch--the creature itself, as distinct from its empty shell. 
The nearest I've seen is in paintings of the Conch-demon slain by 
Visnu: he is shown as a human figure emerging from a conch-shell 
where the animal would be.

Valerie J Roebuck
Manchester, UK




From ucgadkw at UCL.AC.UK  Fri Jan 23 09:02:40 2009
From: ucgadkw at UCL.AC.UK (Dominik Wujastyk)
Date: Fri, 23 Jan 09 09:02:40 +0000
Subject: FONTS> Upgraded IndUni fonts
In-Reply-To: <1232607970.3877.18.camel@proliant>
Message-ID: <161227084598.23782.1318295050977504594.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

The maintainers of the INDOLOGY.info and Bombay.indology.info websites 
have had a very small number of queries (2) from people who have not been 
able to download and install the newly updated IndUni fonts.  We have 
checked and triple-checked the fonts and the download functions, including 
using a variety of host operating systems etc.  We cannot reproduce any of 
the difficulties.  The servers that run the indology.info domain are 
running well, and report no hiccups in service recently.

If you have a problem fetching or installing the IndUni fonts from 
bombay.indology.info, please turn in the first instance to your local 
computer support for help.  If that fails, please ask your computer 
support person to contact Richard Mahoney, John Smith or myself.

Many thanks, and good luck!

Dominik Wujastyk
INDOLOGY website




From dominic.goodall at GMAIL.COM  Fri Jan 23 03:53:36 2009
From: dominic.goodall at GMAIL.COM (Dominic Goodall)
Date: Fri, 23 Jan 09 09:23:36 +0530
Subject: lalaj-jihva: the rapacious tongue of Kaalaraatrii
In-Reply-To: <BAY114-DS1ADF4EA359462DA08B2B7DBCE0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <161227084594.23782.17554496390619235401.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

About the Kathaasaritsaagara, as often, a more precise reference is  
given in the Petersburger Woerterbuch than is to be found in Monier  
Williams' dictionary, but to an old edition not to hand...

The description to which the PW and MW probably refer, which occurs  
towards the end of the 2nd tara"nga of the 14th lambaka,  is not of  
Kaalii:

taavac ca praka.tiibhuuya bhagavaan bhairavaak.rti.h|
uddh.rtaasir lalajjihva.h k.rtvaa hu.mkaaram abhyadhaat||...

Of course Boehtlingk & Roth and Monier Williams don't mean to indicate  
that the Kathaasaritsaagara is a "source" for the term lalajjihva,  
merely that the work attests the use of the term.  As Michael Slouber  
has pointed out, lolling tongues in visualistions and in other tantric  
contexts go back further than this.

And the lolling tongue as an instrument of (or metaphor for) rapacious  
destructiveness is of course pretty old in poetry too:

Thus Bhaaravi's Kiraataarjuniiya 16:6

ujjhatsu sa.mhaara ivaastasa.mkhyam ahnaaya tejasvi.su jiivitaani|
lokatrayaasvaadanalolajihva.m na vyaadadaaty aananam atra m.rtyu.h||

Perhaps this fine tenebrous passage from Baa.na's Har.sacarita 8 (p.84  
in Kane's edition) is more relevant:

sakalalokakavalaavalehalampa.taa bahalaa vaha.mlihaa le.dhi  
lohitaacitaa citaa"ngaarakaalii kaalaraatriijihvaa jiivitaani jiivinaam.

Cowell and Thomas (p.256) render this with:
`The tongue of the goddess of Doom's-night, black like the charcoal of  
the funeral piles and covered with blood, licks up the lives of living  
beings, like a cow that licks her calf's shoulder,---eager to swallow  
all creation as a mouthful.'


Dominic Goodall
Pondicherry Centre
Ecole fran?aise d'Extr?me-Orient ("French School of Asian Studies"),


On 22 Jan 2009, at 07:18, Herman Tull wrote:

> I am looking for references to Kali's "lolling" tongue.  The Devi  
> Mahatmya and the Mahabhagavata Purana (thanks to Patricia Dold for  
> references) use forms of /lal + jihva (lalana/lalaj-jihva).  MW  
> cites the Kathasaritsagara as a source of lalaj-jihva.  Does anyone  
> has this citation?  Does this descriptive term ("lolling" tongue)  
> occur in reference to other figures/goddesses?
>
> Thanks for your help.
>
> Herman Tull
> Princeton, NJ




From hwtull at MSN.COM  Fri Jan 23 14:48:01 2009
From: hwtull at MSN.COM (Herman Tull)
Date: Fri, 23 Jan 09 09:48:01 -0500
Subject: lalaj-jihva: the rapacious tongue of Kaalaraatrii
In-Reply-To: <20090108160855.BQG17960@m4500-02.uchicago.edu>
Message-ID: <161227084602.23782.17990452236276730562.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Thanks to Dominic, Loriliai, Jeorg, and Bradley for the references.  All 
together, the information (which confirmed my initial suspicions) has helped 
me a great deal with my current project.

With regards,

Herman Tull
Princeton, NJ

--------------------------------------------------
From: "Dominic Goodall" <dominic.goodall at GMAIL.COM>
Sent: Thursday, January 22, 2009 10:53 PM
To: <INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: lalaj-jihva: the rapacious tongue of Kaalaraatrii

> About the Kathaasaritsaagara, as often, a more precise reference is  given 
> in the Petersburger Woerterbuch than is to be found in Monier  Williams' 
> dictionary, but to an old edition not to hand...
>
> The description to which the PW and MW probably refer, which occurs 
> towards the end of the 2nd tara"nga of the 14th lambaka,  is not of 
> Kaalii:
>
> taavac ca praka.tiibhuuya bhagavaan bhairavaak.rti.h|
> uddh.rtaasir lalajjihva.h k.rtvaa hu.mkaaram abhyadhaat||...
>
> Of course Boehtlingk & Roth and Monier Williams don't mean to indicate 
> that the Kathaasaritsaagara is a "source" for the term lalajjihva,  merely 
> that the work attests the use of the term.  As Michael Slouber  has 
> pointed out, lolling tongues in visualistions and in other tantric 
> contexts go back further than this.
>
> And the lolling tongue as an instrument of (or metaphor for) rapacious 
> destructiveness is of course pretty old in poetry too:
>
> Thus Bhaaravi's Kiraataarjuniiya 16:6
>
> ujjhatsu sa.mhaara ivaastasa.mkhyam ahnaaya tejasvi.su jiivitaani|
> lokatrayaasvaadanalolajihva.m na vyaadadaaty aananam atra m.rtyu.h||
>
> Perhaps this fine tenebrous passage from Baa.na's Har.sacarita 8 (p.84  in 
> Kane's edition) is more relevant:
>
> sakalalokakavalaavalehalampa.taa bahalaa vaha.mlihaa le.dhi  lohitaacitaa 
> citaa"ngaarakaalii kaalaraatriijihvaa jiivitaani jiivinaam.
>
> Cowell and Thomas (p.256) render this with:
> `The tongue of the goddess of Doom's-night, black like the charcoal of 
> the funeral piles and covered with blood, licks up the lives of living 
> beings, like a cow that licks her calf's shoulder,---eager to swallow  all 
> creation as a mouthful.'
>
>
> Dominic Goodall
> Pondicherry Centre
> Ecole fran?aise d'Extr?me-Orient ("French School of Asian Studies"),
>
>
> On 22 Jan 2009, at 07:18, Herman Tull wrote:
>
>> I am looking for references to Kali's "lolling" tongue.  The Devi 
>> Mahatmya and the Mahabhagavata Purana (thanks to Patricia Dold for 
>> references) use forms of /lal + jihva (lalana/lalaj-jihva).  MW  cites 
>> the Kathasaritsagara as a source of lalaj-jihva.  Does anyone  has this 
>> citation?  Does this descriptive term ("lolling" tongue)  occur in 
>> reference to other figures/goddesses?
>>
>> Thanks for your help.
>>
>> Herman Tull
>> Princeton, NJ
> 




From geeraae at GEOL.UOA.GR  Fri Jan 23 10:11:59 2009
From: geeraae at GEOL.UOA.GR (Alexandra Vandergeer)
Date: Fri, 23 Jan 09 12:11:59 +0200
Subject: invertebrates
In-Reply-To: <a06110400c59f2a44703d@[80.225.223.117]>
Message-ID: <161227084600.23782.2922025508699258968.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

I guess you mean 'apart from the many conches as depicted as Vishnu's
attribute'. This conch-demon, obviously I miss something interesting,
never heard of it. I do know of a Vishnu attacking a giant snake, cq naga,
often depicted as half human, maybe it's the same episode but in a
different rendering. Or the 'conch' is the tortoise carapax?

Alexandra

> While we are pondering the question of invertebrates in South Asian
> art, it occurrs to me that I've never actually seen a representation
> of a conch--the creature itself, as distinct from its empty shell.
> The nearest I've seen is in paintings of the Conch-demon slain by
> Visnu: he is shown as a human figure emerging from a conch-shell
> where the animal would be.
>
> Valerie J Roebuck
> Manchester, UK
>




From baums at U.WASHINGTON.EDU  Fri Jan 23 20:57:27 2009
From: baums at U.WASHINGTON.EDU (Stefan Baums)
Date: Fri, 23 Jan 09 12:57:27 -0800
Subject: invertebrates
In-Reply-To: <a06110400c59fc96d4d78@[80.225.221.131]>
Message-ID: <161227084607.23782.2079713092664977682.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Dear Valerie et al.,

> The conch-demon is S'ankhaasura ... depicted in painted sets of Avataras from 
> the 18th-19th century, but I haven't got an example to hand.

here is an example from the University of Virginia Art Museum (second image from the top):

    http://www.virginia.edu/artmuseum/collections_NEW/the_collections/Asian/India.html

Unfortunately rather small, and I'm not sure I see the conch, unless it is the orange object floating in the river in the bottom left of the painting.

All best,
Stefan

-- 
Stefan Baums
Asian Languages and Literature
University of Washington




From jkirk at SPRO.NET  Fri Jan 23 23:20:56 2009
From: jkirk at SPRO.NET (jkirk)
Date: Fri, 23 Jan 09 16:20:56 -0700
Subject: invertebrates
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.43.0901231257270.22468@hymn32.u.washington.edu>
Message-ID: <161227084609.23782.12366175931769472092.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Looking with a magnifier, the little orange object in the river
has a tiny man-like being rising out of it and two humanoid legs
below it--as though the conch was an integral part of the being.

Best,
Joanna Kirkpatrick
Bennington College, retd. 

-----Original Message-----
From: Indology [mailto:INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk] On Behalf Of
Stefan Baums
Sent: Friday, January 23, 2009 1:57 PM
To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk
Subject: Re: invertebrates

Dear Valerie et al.,

> The conch-demon is S'ankhaasura ... depicted in painted sets of

> Avataras from the 18th-19th century, but I haven't got an
example to hand.

here is an example from the University of Virginia Art Museum
(second image from the top):

 
http://www.virginia.edu/artmuseum/collections_NEW/the_collections
/Asian/India.html

Unfortunately rather small, and I'm not sure I see the conch,
unless it is the orange object floating in the river in the
bottom left of the painting.

All best,
Stefan

--
Stefan Baums
Asian Languages and Literature
University of Washington




From vjroebuck at MACUNLIMITED.NET  Fri Jan 23 19:31:46 2009
From: vjroebuck at MACUNLIMITED.NET (Valerie J Roebuck)
Date: Fri, 23 Jan 09 19:31:46 +0000
Subject: invertebrates
In-Reply-To: <0eed382149f8d3c8747703a9288653a0.squirrel@webmail.uoa.gr>
Message-ID: <161227084605.23782.13913216624221262478.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

I meant the animal itself, as distinct from its shell, which of 
course is found all over the place. The conch-demon is S'ankhaasura, 
who was defeated by Vishnu in his Fish Avatara. He is certainly 
depicted in painted sets of Avataras from the 18th-19th century, but 
I haven't got an example to hand.

Valerie J Roebuck

At 12:11 pm +0200 23/1/09, Alexandra Vandergeer wrote:
>I guess you mean 'apart from the many conches as depicted as Vishnu's
>attribute'. This conch-demon, obviously I miss something interesting,
>never heard of it. I do know of a Vishnu attacking a giant snake, cq naga,
>often depicted as half human, maybe it's the same episode but in a
>different rendering. Or the 'conch' is the tortoise carapax?
>
>Alexandra
>
>>  While we are pondering the question of invertebrates in South Asian
>>  art, it occurrs to me that I've never actually seen a representation
>>  of a conch--the creature itself, as distinct from its empty shell.
>>  The nearest I've seen is in paintings of the Conch-demon slain by
>>  Visnu: he is shown as a human figure emerging from a conch-shell
>>  where the animal would be.
>>
>>  Valerie J Roebuck
>>  Manchester, UK
>>




From vjroebuck at MACUNLIMITED.NET  Sat Jan 24 07:39:16 2009
From: vjroebuck at MACUNLIMITED.NET (Valerie J Roebuck)
Date: Sat, 24 Jan 09 07:39:16 +0000
Subject: invertebrates
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.43.0901231257270.22468@hymn32.u.washington.edu>
Message-ID: <161227084611.23782.4099265878063614180.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

I can't see any conch-demon in this picture. The nearly central 
figure in the water looks like a demon with an ass's head or similar, 
plunging head first.

Valerie J Roebuck

At 12:57 pm -0800 23/1/09, Stefan Baums wrote:
>Dear Valerie et al.,
>
>>The conch-demon is S'ankhaasura ... depicted in painted sets of 
>>Avataras from the 18th-19th century, but I haven't got an example 
>>to hand.
>
>here is an example from the University of Virginia Art Museum 
>(second image from the top):
>
> 
>http://www.virginia.edu/artmuseum/collections_NEW/the_collections/Asian/India.html
>
>Unfortunately rather small, and I'm not sure I see the conch, unless 
>it is the orange object floating in the river in the bottom left of 
>the painting.
>
>All best,
>Stefan
>
>--
>Stefan Baums
>Asian Languages and Literature
>University of Washington




From indologi at GWDG.DE  Sat Jan 24 10:13:23 2009
From: indologi at GWDG.DE (Prof. Dr. Thomas Oberlies)
Date: Sat, 24 Jan 09 11:13:23 +0100
Subject: Vacancy: Director of Museum of Asian Art (Berlin)
Message-ID: <161227084613.23782.1097346566215593343.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Dear collegues,

at the request of Prof. Dr. Dr. h.c. mult. Hermann Parzinger, president of
the Prussian Cultural Heritage Foundation, I would like to call your
attention to the advertisement of a vacancy at the Museum of Asian Art
(Berlin). Please forward the text given below to suitable applicants.

Best regards,
Thomas Oberlies
--
Institute of Indology and Tibetology
University of Goettingen
Waldweg 26
D-37073 Goettingen
Germany




STIFTUNG PREUSSISCHER KULTURBESITZ -- DER PR?SIDENT

?Bei den Staatlichen Museen zu Berlin ? Preu?ischer Kulturbesitz ist zum
1. Dezember 2009 die Stelle
der Direktorin/des Direktors
des Museums f?r Asiatische Kunst
der Bes.-Gr.: A 16 BBesO
Kennziffer: AKu 2-2008
zu besetzen. Im Falle der Besetzung der Position mit einer/einem
Tarifbesch?ftigten wird eine Verg?tung entsprechend der Bedeutung der
Position gezahlt.
Das Museum f?r Asiatische Kunst geh?rt mit seinen beiden Abteilungen, der
Kunstsammlung S?d-,S?dost- und Zentralasien und der Ostasiatischen
Kunstsammlung, zu den bedeutendsten Spezialmuseen seiner Art au?erhalb
Asiens. 1906 wurde mit der Ostasiatischen Kunstsammlung das erste
Spezialmuseum f?r die Kunst Chinas, Japans und Koreas gegr?ndet, 1963 die
Gr?ndung des Museums f?r Indische Kunst vollzogen. Beide Sammlungen wurden
2006 zum Museum f?r Asiatische Kunst vereinigt.
Voraussichtlich im Jahr 2014 soll das Museum f?r Asiatische Kunst seine
k?nftige Dauerausstellung gemeinsam mit dem Ethnologischen Museum mit
einem innovativen Konzept im Humboldt-Forum unter Beteiligung der Zentral-
und Landesbibliothek Berlin und der Humboldt-Universit?t er?ffnen. Dieses
setzt in hohem Ma?e die Bereitschaft zu enger Kooperation mit anderen
Institutionen und zu neuen Ans?tzen im Museumswesen voraus.
Die ?bernahme der Leitung des Museums f?r Asiatische Kunst erfordert ein
mit Promotion abgeschlossenes Hochschulstudium auf dem Gebiet der
ostasiatischen und/oder indo-asiatischen Kunstgeschichte sowie den
Nachweis herausragender internationaler wissenschaftlicher Leistungen.
Gesucht wird eine Pers?nlichkeit, die bereits Personal- und
Budgetverantwortung wahrgenommen hat, die es versteht, Mitarbeiter zu
motivieren, Arbeiten zu delegieren sowie langfristig zu denken und
konsequent die Ziele des Museums zu verfolgen. Vorausgesetzt werden die
sichere Beherrschung von mindestens zwei Fremdsprachen, darunter m?glichst
eine der Landessprachen. Erw?nscht sind Erfahrungen in der Museumsarbeit,
im internationalen Ausstellungswesen und bei der Einwerbung von
Drittmitteln.
Die Stiftung Preu?ischer Kulturbesitz gew?hrleistet die Gleichstellung von
M?nnern und Frauen nach Ma?gabe des Bundesgleichstellungsgesetzes. Die
Bewerbung von Frauen ist erw?nscht. Schwerbehinderte Menschen werden bei
gleicher Eignung besonders ber?cksichtigt.
Bewerbungen mit einem Lebenslauf, beruflichem Werdegang und
Zeugnissen/Beurteilungen (ein Hinweis auf die Personalakte gen?gt nicht)
werden unter Angabe der Kennziffer AKu 2-2008 bis zum
6. Februar 2009 erbeten an:
Stiftung Preu?ischer Kulturbesitz, Der Pr?sident, Sachgebiet I 1,
Von-der-Heydt-Str. 16-18, 10785 Berlin.
Von Bewerbungen in elektronischer Form bitten wir abzusehen. Bewerbungen
k?nnen grunds?tzlich nur zur?ckgesandt werden, wenn ihnen ein frankierter
R?ckumschlag beiliegt.
N?here Ausk?nfte erteilt Ihnen Frau Dr. Lang unter der Rufnummer 030 25463
244.?




From rah2k at VIRGINIA.EDU  Sun Jan 25 19:36:19 2009
From: rah2k at VIRGINIA.EDU (Bob Hueckstedt)
Date: Sun, 25 Jan 09 14:36:19 -0500
Subject: invertebrates
In-Reply-To: <a06110402c5a074eb9444@[80.225.222.149]>
Message-ID: <161227084616.23782.14680223380916540614.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Dan Ehnbom is the curator of the South Asia collection at the University 
of Virginia Museum. I told him about our discussion about this painting 
and asked him to comment. He sent me a better image of the painting, 
which I have posted to 
http://people.virginia.edu/~rah2k/SlayingofShankasura.jpg, and offered 
this comment:

<begin quote>
Here is a better picture of it.  Sankhasura is the demonic figure to the 
left of center at the bottom.  Because Indian art, as Coomaraswamy said, 
is an art of statement rather than description, he is not very 
conch-like, except perhaps for the blob-like form on his abdomen. 
Possibly this is the demon assuming his true form at the moment of his 
death.
<end quote>

Bob Hueckstedt

Valerie J Roebuck wrote:
> I can't see any conch-demon in this picture. The nearly central figure 
> in the water looks like a demon with an ass's head or similar, plunging 
> head first.
> 
> Valerie J Roebuck
> 
> At 12:57 pm -0800 23/1/09, Stefan Baums wrote:
>> Dear Valerie et al.,
>>
>>> The conch-demon is S'ankhaasura ... depicted in painted sets of 
>>> Avataras from the 18th-19th century, but I haven't got an example to 
>>> hand.
>>
>> here is an example from the University of Virginia Art Museum (second 
>> image from the top):
>>
>>
>> http://www.virginia.edu/artmuseum/collections_NEW/the_collections/Asian/India.html 
>>
>>
>> Unfortunately rather small, and I'm not sure I see the conch, unless 
>> it is the orange object floating in the river in the bottom left of 
>> the painting.
>>
>> All best,
>> Stefan
>>
>> -- 
>> Stefan Baums
>> Asian Languages and Literature
>> University of Washington




From jkirk at SPRO.NET  Sun Jan 25 22:22:17 2009
From: jkirk at SPRO.NET (jkirk)
Date: Sun, 25 Jan 09 15:22:17 -0700
Subject: invertebrates
In-Reply-To: <497CBF33.8030909@virginia.edu>
Message-ID: <161227084618.23782.5230317378838525050.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Thanks for posting this version of the painting--I completely
missed the action in the previous more blurry version.
Joanna K. 


Dan Ehnbom is the curator of the South Asia collection at the
University of Virginia Museum. I told him about our discussion
about this painting and asked him to comment. He sent me a better
image of the painting, which I have posted to
http://people.virginia.edu/~rah2k/SlayingofShankasura.jpg, and
offered this comment:

<begin quote>
Here is a better picture of it.  Sankhasura is the demonic figure
to the left of center at the bottom.  Because Indian art, as
Coomaraswamy said, is an art of statement rather than
description, he is not very conch-like, except perhaps for the
blob-like form on his abdomen. 
Possibly this is the demon assuming his true form at the moment
of his death.
<end quote>

Bob Hueckstedt

Valerie J Roebuck wrote:
> I can't see any conch-demon in this picture. The nearly central
figure 
> in the water looks like a demon with an ass's head or similar, 
> plunging head first.
> 
> Valerie J Roebuck
> 
> At 12:57 pm -0800 23/1/09, Stefan Baums wrote:
>> Dear Valerie et al.,
>>
>>> The conch-demon is S'ankhaasura ... depicted in painted sets
of 
>>> Avataras from the 18th-19th century, but I haven't got an
example to 
>>> hand.
>>
>> here is an example from the University of Virginia Art Museum
(second 
>> image from the top):
>>
>>
>>
http://www.virginia.edu/artmuseum/collections_NEW/the_collections
/Asi
>> an/India.html
>>
>>
>> Unfortunately rather small, and I'm not sure I see the conch,
unless 
>> it is the orange object floating in the river in the bottom
left of 
>> the painting.
>>
>> All best,
>> Stefan
>>
>> --
>> Stefan Baums
>> Asian Languages and Literature
>> University of Washington




From pankaj-jain at UIOWA.EDU  Mon Jan 26 00:46:19 2009
From: pankaj-jain at UIOWA.EDU (Pankaj Jain)
Date: Mon, 26 Jan 09 00:46:19 +0000
Subject: Scholarship to study Jainism in India
Message-ID: <161227084620.23782.425942612358440728.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

International Summer School for Jain studies (ISSJS)

http://www.jainstudies.org

May 30th -July 21 , 2009

The ISSJS program is intended to provide 
scholars in philosophy, religion, anthropology, theology and South Asian 
studies with an opportunity to pursue Jain studies in India from May 30 to 
July 21 2009. 
During this period, scholars will study in the 
North Indian cities of Delhi, Jaipur and 
Varanasi. While in or on way to Jaipur,
students will go on short trips or excursions to 
nearby areas in Rajasthan. 

The course of study follows a daily schedule 
of lectures by notable Indian scholars 
covering a range of topics from Jain history 
and philosophy to rituals practices and 
contemporary Jain life. An integral part of 
this program is the opportunity to 
contextualize what is learned in the 
classroom by visiting academic, historical 
places of interests, interacting with Jain 
communities and participating in cultural 
activities. 

In addition, ISSJS will provide language 
tutorial for students already engaged in the 
study of Prakrit and Sanskrit. Tutorials will be 
based on student requests for two to four 
weeks during the program. 

Please note: In 2009, ISSJS will also offer a 
One month long parallel program (June 7th 

till July 6th 2009) introduction and basics of 
Jainism, its philosophy, history and culture. 
This program is primarily intended for 
professors?teachers and research scholars 
in other streams like art, ethics, history, 
education etc. with interest in Jain studies 
as well as senior undergraduate students 
who might be interested in pursuing 
graduate studies in Jainism. 

Eligibility 

This program is open to all scholars teaching 
at or students enrolled in any accredited 
university worldwide only. 

*All applicants are expected to be fluent in 
English since this is the medium of instruction. 

* Specialization in Jainism is not expected. 
However, successful program applicants will 
have prior experience in the academic 
study of South Asia Studies or Religion with 
long-term goals within these fields. 
* While this is a non-sectarian program, due 
to the fact that students are intimately 
engaged with the Jain community, 
applicants must be willing to respectfully 
adhere to certain Jain principles while in 
India. Please see our website for further 
details. 
How to Apply 

You can download the application form 
from the ISSJS website and email or mail the 
complete application to ISSJS. ISSJS accepts 
applications throughout the year but the 
deadline to apply for the 2009 program is 
February 14th 2009. If you have questions 
about the application process, contact ISSJS 
at info at jainstudies.org . 

Program cost and Financial Package 

ISJS provides a good financial package such 
as complete hospitality in India, tuition fees, 
some travels and cash stipends etc. 

Almost all scholars admitted to the two 
months program are offered travel grant, 
complete hospitality in India and some cash 
stipend also. 

NOTE: The only charge in India from each 
participant (two month and one month 
program) will be a sum of $300 (to be paid to 
ISJS India to cover the cost of visits to a few 
selected Jain historical and religious places 
in India in connection with ISSJS program for 
a maximum of 3 days and other incidental 
expenses connected with the program.




From vjroebuck at MACUNLIMITED.NET  Mon Jan 26 07:31:54 2009
From: vjroebuck at MACUNLIMITED.NET (Valerie J Roebuck)
Date: Mon, 26 Jan 09 07:31:54 +0000
Subject: invertebrates
In-Reply-To: <dfd83678df7a8413c20d27870808a305.squirrel@webmail.uoa.gr>
Message-ID: <161227084628.23782.7130577832419361704.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

What an interesting painting! This version is quite different from 
the ones I was thinking of, which had the demon body emerging upwards 
from the conch-shell. Moreover they were Avatara scenes, while this 
one appears to be of a series of incidents from the life of Krsna.

Valerie J Roebuck

At 9:08 am +0200 26/1/09, Alexandra Vandergeer wrote:
>The demon then seems more like some sort of hybrid of mainland taxa, not
>much 'invertebrate' parts. Maybe the idea is that the demon merely hides
>in the/a conch, like some mini-lobsters do? That would explain the tiny
>horns, though horns are of course an excellent feature of any demon. The
>whole animal gives the impression of a horned macaque. Even the number of
>legs is non-invertebate.
>
>Thanks for the enlarged version!
>
>Alexandra
>
>>
>>  Dan Ehnbom is the curator of the South Asia collection at the
>>  University of Virginia Museum. I told him about our discussion
>>  about this painting and asked him to comment. He sent me a better
>>  image of the painting, which I have posted to
>>  http://people.virginia.edu/~rah2k/SlayingofShankasura.jpg, and
>>  offered this comment:
>>
>>  <begin quote>
>>  Here is a better picture of it.  Sankhasura is the demonic figure
>>  to the left of center at the bottom.  Because Indian art, as
>>  Coomaraswamy said, is an art of statement rather than
>>  description, he is not very conch-like, except perhaps for the
>>  blob-like form on his abdomen.
>>  Possibly this is the demon assuming his true form at the moment
>>  of his death.
>>  <end quote>
>>
>>  Bob Hueckstedt
>>
>>  Valerie J Roebuck wrote:
>>>  I can't see any conch-demon in this picture. The nearly central
>>  figure
>>>  in the water looks like a demon with an ass's head or similar,
>>>  plunging head first.
>>>
>>>  Valerie J Roebuck
>>>
>>>  At 12:57 pm -0800 23/1/09, Stefan Baums wrote:
>>>>  Dear Valerie et al.,
>>>>
>>>>>  The conch-demon is S'ankhaasura ... depicted in painted sets
>>  of
>>>>>  Avataras from the 18th-19th century, but I haven't got an
>>  example to
>>>>>  hand.
>>>>
>>>>  here is an example from the University of Virginia Art Museum
>>  (second
>>>>  image from the top):
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>  http://www.virginia.edu/artmuseum/collections_NEW/the_collections
>>  /Asi
>>>>  an/India.html
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>  Unfortunately rather small, and I'm not sure I see the conch,
>>  unless
>>>>  it is the orange object floating in the river in the bottom
>>  left of
>>>>  the painting.
>>>>
>>>>  All best,
>>>>  Stefan
>>>>
>>>>  --
>>>>  Stefan Baums
>>>>  Asian Languages and Literature
>>>>  University of Washington
>>




From geeraae at GEOL.UOA.GR  Mon Jan 26 07:01:52 2009
From: geeraae at GEOL.UOA.GR (Alexandra Vandergeer)
Date: Mon, 26 Jan 09 09:01:52 +0200
Subject: invertebrates
In-Reply-To: <a06110400c59fc96d4d78@[80.225.221.131]>
Message-ID: <161227084623.23782.13261032392970278671.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

In that case, no, I've never seen a sculpture like that. I'll try to trace
Matsyavatara sculptures, who knows, in case I find one, I'll contact you.

Alexandra

> I meant the animal itself, as distinct from its shell, which of
> course is found all over the place. The conch-demon is S'ankhaasura,
> who was defeated by Vishnu in his Fish Avatara. He is certainly
> depicted in painted sets of Avataras from the 18th-19th century, but
> I haven't got an example to hand.
>
> Valerie J Roebuck




From geeraae at GEOL.UOA.GR  Mon Jan 26 07:08:58 2009
From: geeraae at GEOL.UOA.GR (Alexandra Vandergeer)
Date: Mon, 26 Jan 09 09:08:58 +0200
Subject: invertebrates
In-Reply-To: <2A95CCE856B74CFAB00A0C28D51B022B@OPTIPLEX>
Message-ID: <161227084626.23782.738853726284872278.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

The demon then seems more like some sort of hybrid of mainland taxa, not
much 'invertebrate' parts. Maybe the idea is that the demon merely hides
in the/a conch, like some mini-lobsters do? That would explain the tiny
horns, though horns are of course an excellent feature of any demon. The
whole animal gives the impression of a horned macaque. Even the number of
legs is non-invertebate.

Thanks for the enlarged version!

Alexandra

>
> Dan Ehnbom is the curator of the South Asia collection at the
> University of Virginia Museum. I told him about our discussion
> about this painting and asked him to comment. He sent me a better
> image of the painting, which I have posted to
> http://people.virginia.edu/~rah2k/SlayingofShankasura.jpg, and
> offered this comment:
>
> <begin quote>
> Here is a better picture of it.  Sankhasura is the demonic figure
> to the left of center at the bottom.  Because Indian art, as
> Coomaraswamy said, is an art of statement rather than
> description, he is not very conch-like, except perhaps for the
> blob-like form on his abdomen.
> Possibly this is the demon assuming his true form at the moment
> of his death.
> <end quote>
>
> Bob Hueckstedt
>
> Valerie J Roebuck wrote:
>> I can't see any conch-demon in this picture. The nearly central
> figure
>> in the water looks like a demon with an ass's head or similar,
>> plunging head first.
>>
>> Valerie J Roebuck
>>
>> At 12:57 pm -0800 23/1/09, Stefan Baums wrote:
>>> Dear Valerie et al.,
>>>
>>>> The conch-demon is S'ankhaasura ... depicted in painted sets
> of
>>>> Avataras from the 18th-19th century, but I haven't got an
> example to
>>>> hand.
>>>
>>> here is an example from the University of Virginia Art Museum
> (second
>>> image from the top):
>>>
>>>
>>>
> http://www.virginia.edu/artmuseum/collections_NEW/the_collections
> /Asi
>>> an/India.html
>>>
>>>
>>> Unfortunately rather small, and I'm not sure I see the conch,
> unless
>>> it is the orange object floating in the river in the bottom
> left of
>>> the painting.
>>>
>>> All best,
>>> Stefan
>>>
>>> --
>>> Stefan Baums
>>> Asian Languages and Literature
>>> University of Washington
>




From huntington.2 at OSU.EDU  Mon Jan 26 16:17:27 2009
From: huntington.2 at OSU.EDU (John C. Huntington)
Date: Mon, 26 Jan 09 11:17:27 -0500
Subject: invertebrates
In-Reply-To: <a06110400c5a3163ab453@[80.225.223.211]>
Message-ID: <161227084631.23782.7319935187867542093.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

It is my understanding (largely from the Durga Mahisashura myth and  
bhavachakra representations of ashuras that they are apparently  
conceived of as fundamentally humanoids but with morphing abilities.  
Bhavachakraa paintings usually represent them as human warrior and  
yaksha and yakshis which are a sub class of  ashuras are also  
represented as humans.  Thus, albeit much later than the materials  
that I usually deal with, I suspect that the ashura as humanoid in the  
painting is just revealing, by force of Krishna's power, his true  
form, which according to my understanding of the Durga sequence, is  
the only form in which a ashura can actually be destroyed.

Cheers

John


On Jan 26, 2009, at 2:31 AM, Valerie J Roebuck wrote:

> What an interesting painting! This version is quite different from  
> the ones I was thinking of, which had the demon body emerging  
> upwards from the conch-shell. Moreover they were Avatara scenes,  
> while this one appears to be of a series of incidents from the life  
> of Krsna.
>
> Valerie J Roebuck
>
> At 9:08 am +0200 26/1/09, Alexandra Vandergeer wrote:
>> The demon then seems more like some sort of hybrid of mainland  
>> taxa, not
>> much 'invertebrate' parts. Maybe the idea is that the demon merely  
>> hides
>> in the/a conch, like some mini-lobsters do? That would explain the  
>> tiny
>> horns, though horns are of course an excellent feature of any  
>> demon. The
>> whole animal gives the impression of a horned macaque. Even the  
>> number of
>> legs is non-invertebate.
>>
>> Thanks for the enlarged version!
>>
>> Alexandra
>>
>>>
>>> Dan Ehnbom is the curator of the South Asia collection at the
>>> University of Virginia Museum. I told him about our discussion
>>> about this painting and asked him to comment. He sent me a better
>>> image of the painting, which I have posted to
>>> http://people.virginia.edu/~rah2k/SlayingofShankasura.jpg, and
>>> offered this comment:
>>>
>>> <begin quote>
>>> Here is a better picture of it.  Sankhasura is the demonic figure
>>> to the left of center at the bottom.  Because Indian art, as
>>> Coomaraswamy said, is an art of statement rather than
>>> description, he is not very conch-like, except perhaps for the
>>> blob-like form on his abdomen.
>>> Possibly this is the demon assuming his true form at the moment
>>> of his death.
>>> <end quote>
>>>
>>> Bob Hueckstedt
>>>
>>> Valerie J Roebuck wrote:
>>>> I can't see any conch-demon in this picture. The nearly central
>>> figure
>>>> in the water looks like a demon with an ass's head or similar,
>>>> plunging head first.
>>>>
>>>> Valerie J Roebuck
>>>>
>>>> At 12:57 pm -0800 23/1/09, Stefan Baums wrote:
>>>>> Dear Valerie et al.,
>>>>>
>>>>>> The conch-demon is S'ankhaasura ... depicted in painted sets
>>> of
>>>>>> Avataras from the 18th-19th century, but I haven't got an
>>> example to
>>>>>> hand.
>>>>>
>>>>> here is an example from the University of Virginia Art Museum
>>> (second
>>>>> image from the top):
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>> http://www.virginia.edu/artmuseum/collections_NEW/the_collections
>>> /Asi
>>>>> an/India.html
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Unfortunately rather small, and I'm not sure I see the conch,
>>> unless
>>>>> it is the orange object floating in the river in the bottom
>>> left of
>>>>> the painting.
>>>>>
>>>>> All best,
>>>>> Stefan
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Stefan Baums
>>>>> Asian Languages and Literature
>>>>> University of Washington
>>>
>
>
> -- 
> BEGIN-ANTISPAM-VOTING-LINKS
> ------------------------------------------------------
>
> Teach CanIt if this mail (ID 789920209) is spam:
> Spam:        https://antispam.osu.edu/b.php?c=s&i=789920209&m=4e4d921dd7fc
> Not spam:    https://antispam.osu.edu/b.php?c=n&i=789920209&m=4e4d921dd7fc
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> ------------------------------------------------------
> END-ANTISPAM-VOTING-LINKS
>




From athr at LOC.GOV  Mon Jan 26 20:18:05 2009
From: athr at LOC.GOV (Allen W Thrasher)
Date: Mon, 26 Jan 09 15:18:05 -0500
Subject: invertebrates
In-Reply-To: <497CBF33.8030909@virginia.edu>
Message-ID: <161227084637.23782.12628399382713350415.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

"... he is not very conch-like, except perhaps for the blob-like form on his abdomen."

Is it possible that the blob-like form represents the bit of muscle where the conch's body attaches firmly to the shell?  That is assuming there is such a spot in conchs.  

I was wondering if there might be such a thing as riverine conchs, but the wiki article Conch indicates that all conchs in the strict sense, i.e. gensus Strombus. as well as other shells called conch, including the "sacred conch" or Shankha (Turbinella pyrum), are marine animals.  So few Indian artists indeed would have had the chance of seeing anything more of a conch that the empty shell.  Could one have gotten the idea there was spot where the animal's flesh was anchored to its shell by looking at land or freshwater snails?

Pure speculation but I thought it might be of some small interest.


Allen


Allen W. Thrasher, Ph.D.
Senior Reference Librarian
Team Coordinator
South Asia Team, Asian Division
Library of Congress, Jefferson Building 150
101 Independence Ave., S.E.
Washington, DC 20540-4810
tel. 202-707-3732; fax 202-707-1724; athr at loc.gov
The opinions expressed do not necessarily reflect those of the Library of Congress.




From geeraae at GEOL.UOA.GR  Mon Jan 26 17:23:59 2009
From: geeraae at GEOL.UOA.GR (Alexandra Vandergeer)
Date: Mon, 26 Jan 09 19:23:59 +0200
Subject: invertebrates
In-Reply-To: <77E88A4A-FB4E-4F26-B55D-92644D13B27A@osu.edu>
Message-ID: <161227084634.23782.14055302744418790162.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Like the humanoid demon emerging from the beheaded buffalo's neck ?
Interesting idea, that demons can only be destroyed when they assume their
anthropomorph form. Never thought of it. Though in the older sculptures
(Mathura e.g.) the buffalo is still theriomorph while being stabbed,
killed and held upside down by its tail. Can it be that the anthropomorph
demon is of a later stage, say after the 6th century?


> It is my understanding (largely from the Durga Mahisashura myth and
> bhavachakra representations of ashuras that they are apparently
> conceived of as fundamentally humanoids but with morphing abilities.
> Bhavachakraa paintings usually represent them as human warrior and
> yaksha and yakshis which are a sub class of  ashuras are also
> represented as humans.  Thus, albeit much later than the materials
> that I usually deal with, I suspect that the ashura as humanoid in the
> painting is just revealing, by force of Krishna's power, his true
> form, which according to my understanding of the Durga sequence, is
> the only form in which a ashura can actually be destroyed.
>
> Cheers
>
> John
>
>
> On Jan 26, 2009, at 2:31 AM, Valerie J Roebuck wrote:
>
>> What an interesting painting! This version is quite different from
>> the ones I was thinking of, which had the demon body emerging
>> upwards from the conch-shell. Moreover they were Avatara scenes,
>> while this one appears to be of a series of incidents from the life
>> of Krsna.
>>
>> Valerie J Roebuck
>>
>> At 9:08 am +0200 26/1/09, Alexandra Vandergeer wrote:
>>> The demon then seems more like some sort of hybrid of mainland
>>> taxa, not
>>> much 'invertebrate' parts. Maybe the idea is that the demon merely
>>> hides
>>> in the/a conch, like some mini-lobsters do? That would explain the
>>> tiny
>>> horns, though horns are of course an excellent feature of any
>>> demon. The
>>> whole animal gives the impression of a horned macaque. Even the
>>> number of
>>> legs is non-invertebate.
>>>
>>> Thanks for the enlarged version!
>>>
>>> Alexandra
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Dan Ehnbom is the curator of the South Asia collection at the
>>>> University of Virginia Museum. I told him about our discussion
>>>> about this painting and asked him to comment. He sent me a better
>>>> image of the painting, which I have posted to
>>>> http://people.virginia.edu/~rah2k/SlayingofShankasura.jpg, and
>>>> offered this comment:
>>>>
>>>> <begin quote>
>>>> Here is a better picture of it.  Sankhasura is the demonic figure
>>>> to the left of center at the bottom.  Because Indian art, as
>>>> Coomaraswamy said, is an art of statement rather than
>>>> description, he is not very conch-like, except perhaps for the
>>>> blob-like form on his abdomen.
>>>> Possibly this is the demon assuming his true form at the moment
>>>> of his death.
>>>> <end quote>
>>>>
>>>> Bob Hueckstedt
>>>>
>>>> Valerie J Roebuck wrote:
>>>>> I can't see any conch-demon in this picture. The nearly central
>>>> figure
>>>>> in the water looks like a demon with an ass's head or similar,
>>>>> plunging head first.
>>>>>
>>>>> Valerie J Roebuck
>>>>>
>>>>> At 12:57 pm -0800 23/1/09, Stefan Baums wrote:
>>>>>> Dear Valerie et al.,
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The conch-demon is S'ankhaasura ... depicted in painted sets
>>>> of
>>>>>>> Avataras from the 18th-19th century, but I haven't got an
>>>> example to
>>>>>>> hand.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> here is an example from the University of Virginia Art Museum
>>>> (second
>>>>>> image from the top):
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>> http://www.virginia.edu/artmuseum/collections_NEW/the_collections
>>>> /Asi
>>>>>> an/India.html
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Unfortunately rather small, and I'm not sure I see the conch,
>>>> unless
>>>>>> it is the orange object floating in the river in the bottom
>>>> left of
>>>>>> the painting.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> All best,
>>>>>> Stefan
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Stefan Baums
>>>>>> Asian Languages and Literature
>>>>>> University of Washington
>>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> BEGIN-ANTISPAM-VOTING-LINKS
>> ------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> Teach CanIt if this mail (ID 789920209) is spam:
>> Spam:
>> https://antispam.osu.edu/b.php?c=s&i=789920209&m=4e4d921dd7fc
>> Not spam:
>> https://antispam.osu.edu/b.php?c=n&i=789920209&m=4e4d921dd7fc
>> Forget vote:
>> https://antispam.osu.edu/b.php?c=f&i=789920209&m=4e4d921dd7fc
>> ------------------------------------------------------
>> END-ANTISPAM-VOTING-LINKS
>>
>




From geeraae at GEOL.UOA.GR  Tue Jan 27 08:45:56 2009
From: geeraae at GEOL.UOA.GR (Alexandra Vandergeer)
Date: Tue, 27 Jan 09 10:45:56 +0200
Subject: invertebrates
In-Reply-To: <497DD42D0200003A0004EA52@ntgwgate.loc.gov>
Message-ID: <161227084639.23782.15575861194345168711.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

No, all conches are marine indeed, no such thing in a river. If you're
right with your idea of the anchor place of the animal's body (muscular
foot) to the shell, maybe the artist got the idea when eating snails. In
snails it's quite clear, and snails are eaten by the thousands.

Alexandra

> "... he is not very conch-like, except perhaps for the blob-like form on
> his abdomen."
>
> Is it possible that the blob-like form represents the bit of muscle where
> the conch's body attaches firmly to the shell?  That is assuming there is
> such a spot in conchs.
>
> I was wondering if there might be such a thing as riverine conchs, but the
> wiki article Conch indicates that all conchs in the strict sense, i.e.
> gensus Strombus. as well as other shells called conch, including the
> "sacred conch" or Shankha (Turbinella pyrum), are marine animals.  So few
> Indian artists indeed would have had the chance of seeing anything more of
> a conch that the empty shell.  Could one have gotten the idea there was
> spot where the animal's flesh was anchored to its shell by looking at land
> or freshwater snails?
>
> Pure speculation but I thought it might be of some small interest.
>
>
> Allen
>
>
> Allen W. Thrasher, Ph.D.
> Senior Reference Librarian
> Team Coordinator
> South Asia Team, Asian Division
> Library of Congress, Jefferson Building 150
> 101 Independence Ave., S.E.
> Washington, DC 20540-4810
> tel. 202-707-3732; fax 202-707-1724; athr at loc.gov
> The opinions expressed do not necessarily reflect those of the Library of
> Congress.
>




From baums at U.WASHINGTON.EDU  Tue Jan 27 20:03:42 2009
From: baums at U.WASHINGTON.EDU (Stefan Baums)
Date: Tue, 27 Jan 09 12:03:42 -0800
Subject: invertebrates
In-Reply-To: <20090127T143538Z_AE4F00170000@loc.gov>
Message-ID: <161227084644.23782.5113148462411997280.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Dear Allen,

is it possible that the thing on the asura's body is not any attempt at biological realism at all, but just an image of a conch shell superimposed on his figure to identify him as "the conch demon"? His superhero (or supervillain) emblem, as it were? (And in the context of the story, a reminder of his former shape, before he was transformed into humanoid form?) Looks like it to me in the better image, and since there is really nothing else very conch-like about him, such an identificatory emblem would be called for.

Best wishes,
Stefan

-- 
Stefan Baums
Asian Languages and Literature
University of Washington




From athr at LOC.GOV  Tue Jan 27 19:35:38 2009
From: athr at LOC.GOV (Allen W Thrasher)
Date: Tue, 27 Jan 09 14:35:38 -0500
Subject: invertebrates
Message-ID: <161227084641.23782.10269811883365442023.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

It occurs to me the thing on the asura's body may also represent the operculum (piece attached to a snail's foot to close the opening of the shell, for protection).

Allen

Allen W. Thrasher, Ph.D.
Senior Reference Librarian
Team Coordinator
South Asia Team, Asian Division
Library of Congress, Jefferson Building 150
101 Independence Ave., S.E.
Washington, DC 20540-4810
tel. 202-707-3732; fax 202-707-1724; athr at loc.gov
The opinions expressed do not necessarily reflect those of the Library of Congress.




From athr at LOC.GOV  Tue Jan 27 21:31:34 2009
From: athr at LOC.GOV (Allen W Thrasher)
Date: Tue, 27 Jan 09 16:31:34 -0500
Subject: invertebrates
Message-ID: <161227084646.23782.4216908730706782750.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Dear Stefan,

That would be logical, but the thing on his chest doesn't look much like a conch to me, except perhaps in color.  It seems to be pretty much bilaterally symmetrical, which of course conchs aren't.  The artist would have been able to do a recognizable conch, because he would have seen (empty dead) conchs, and they are represented in Indian art in as an auspicious symbol in a form easily recognizable as such (to the modern Western eye).  To my eye the "blob" just barely conceivably could be a conch crawling along in the sea with its mantle expanded outside its shell, but whether an artist would have ever seen such a thing seems doubtful, though presumably it would be visible on occasion on the coast of the Arabian Ocean but that's many hundreds of kilometers away from Bikaner.

The demon's limbs and body seem to me possibly to be shown as more boneless than the other figures in the picture, the line of the neck and chin rather smooth, and the color combination (pink and green) odd but not perhaps obviously demonic (they are of course the colors of the grass and the wall just above him).  Also, could the 'horns' be meant to be antennae, appropriate if the painter knew that the animal that inhabited a Shankha was a sort of snail?  If one looks at the picture at a low magnification, the horns and head seem rather bovine, but I find that if I download it and then magnify as far as possible, the bovine appearance disappears except for the horns, and a resemblance to the body of a univalve seems possible.  Also, I can't see that the "hands" or "front feet" have either fingers or hooves; they seem to taper smoothly to a point.  

So, in conclusion, is the demon being represented as a sort of humanoid mollusc?

All the best

Allen


>>> Stefan Baums <baums at U.WASHINGTON.EDU> 1/27/2009 3:03:42 PM >>>

Dear Allen,

is it possible that the thing on the asura's body is not any attempt at biological realism at all, but just an image of a conch shell superimposed on his figure to identify him as "the conch demon"? His superhero (or supervillain) emblem, as it were? (And in the context of the story, a reminder of his former shape, before he was transformed into humanoid form?) Looks like it to me in the better image, and since there is really nothing else very conch-like about him, such an identificatory emblem would be called for.

Best wishes,
Stefan

-- 
Stefan Baums
Asian Languages and Literature
University of Washington




From geeraae at GEOL.UOA.GR  Wed Jan 28 06:50:58 2009
From: geeraae at GEOL.UOA.GR (Alexandra Vandergeer)
Date: Wed, 28 Jan 09 08:50:58 +0200
Subject: invertebrates
In-Reply-To: <20090127T143538Z_AE4F00170000@loc.gov>
Message-ID: <161227084648.23782.7713557422995572909.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

That's an interesting hypothesis! Quite likely, in my view. This needs
some further comparison, is there a similar painting with the 'object'
clearly visible?

> It occurs to me the thing on the asura's body may also represent the
> operculum




From geeraae at GEOL.UOA.GR  Wed Jan 28 07:25:58 2009
From: geeraae at GEOL.UOA.GR (Alexandra Vandergeer)
Date: Wed, 28 Jan 09 09:25:58 +0200
Subject: invertebrates
Message-ID: <161227084651.23782.15558845384864802855.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Dear Alan,

Not unlikely, after all, the only shell-inhabiting creatures the artist
possibly could have seen are snails. The ocean is too far away (I could't
find a sculpture of a good dolphin either), so alive conches are out. But
snails abound, and everybody has seen its antennae. The 'blob' then goes
unexplained, because landsnails don't have an operculum. Could it simply
be a mass of slime? Or a diminutive representation of the shell as you see
on the back of a walking snail?

Alexandra

> Also, could the 'horns' be meant to be
> antennae, appropriate if the painter knew that the animal that inhabited
> a Shankha was a sort of snail?




From athr at LOC.GOV  Wed Jan 28 19:44:36 2009
From: athr at LOC.GOV (Allen W Thrasher)
Date: Wed, 28 Jan 09 14:44:36 -0500
Subject: invertebrates
In-Reply-To: <95f3de2fbd8f1fec6434df07d6fc12e9.squirrel@webmail.uoa.gr>
Message-ID: <161227084653.23782.9965148730165901069.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Dear Alexandra,

The Wiki article Operculum (gastropod) seems to contradict itself as to whether some terrestrial snails have opercula.  The article Snail says all marine, some freshwater, and some terrestrial ones do.  Also, some land snails secrete a calcareous epiphragm before hibernating, with the same functions as a permanent operculum, very pertinent in a monsoon climate, I should think.  Anyway, our artist perhaps had to chance to see freshwater snails (which I find always come along with lotuses when you buy them and raise them in tubs, and are prolific and hardy and surive the winter, or at least their eggs do).

The gastropod thesis becomes more plausible to me as I look at the illustrations in the Snail article today.

I wonder if the conventional representation of makaras would have overruled any small tendency to realistic representation of dolphins, as Western artists who had access to lions in royal menageries still represented them in an heraldic manner.  Ernst Gombrich gave a marvelous example from the sketchbook of Villard d'Honnecourt in a lecture in Seattle years ago. 

Getting back to invertebrates as such, I think I have seen representations of butterflies in miniatures which had four legs not six, and not just in views where one pair would have  been covered by the wings.  But these were not sculptures.

Allen

>>> Alexandra Vandergeer <geeraae at GEOL.UOA.GR> 1/28/2009 2:25 AM >>>
Dear Alan,

Not unlikely, after all, the only shell-inhabiting creatures the artist
possibly could have seen are snails. The ocean is too far away (I could't
find a sculpture of a good dolphin either), so alive conches are out. But
snails abound, and everybody has seen its antennae. The 'blob' then goes
unexplained, because landsnails don't have an operculum. Could it simply
be a mass of slime? Or a diminutive representation of the shell as you see
on the back of a walking snail?

Alexandra

> Also, could the 'horns' be meant to be
> antennae, appropriate if the painter knew that the animal that inhabited
> a Shankha was a sort of snail?




From eastwestcultural at YAHOO.COM  Thu Jan 29 06:19:45 2009
From: eastwestcultural at YAHOO.COM (Dean Michael Anderson)
Date: Wed, 28 Jan 09 22:19:45 -0800
Subject: chanted audio of sanskrit declensions and conjugations?
In-Reply-To: <20090127T163134Z_AE4F00170000@loc.gov>
Message-ID: <161227084656.23782.15259577230475502964.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

I was thinking of working with a pandit to create some mo3 files with chanted audio of Sanskrit declensions and conjugations for teaching purposes. They would be made freely available on the internet. I haven't yet found anything quite right for that purpose.Has this already been done somewhere?Best,DeanDean Michael AndersonEast West Cultural Institute




From tccahill at LOYNO.EDU  Thu Jan 29 20:25:20 2009
From: tccahill at LOYNO.EDU (tccahill)
Date: Thu, 29 Jan 09 14:25:20 -0600
Subject: chanted audio of sanskrit declensions and conjugations?
Message-ID: <161227084665.23782.1776962151830441235.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

> I was thinking of working with a pandit to create some mo3
> files with chanted audio of Sanskrit declensions and
> conjugations for teaching purposes. They would be made
> freely available on the internet. I haven't yet found
> anything quite right for that purpose.Has this already
> been done somewhere?Best,DeanDean Michael AndersonEast
> West Cultural Institute

http://www.loyno.edu/~tccahill/skt_sound_files.html

Contains about 50 nouns and 20 verbs in mp3 format. The
quality isn't great since most of the recordings were made
in 1981-82. Some students have found them useful, but making
one's own is always best!

best,
Tim Cahill




From eastwestcultural at YAHOO.COM  Thu Jan 29 09:41:32 2009
From: eastwestcultural at YAHOO.COM (Dean Michael Anderson)
Date: Thu, 29 Jan 09 15:11:32 +0530
Subject: resending question on chanted audio of Sanskrit declensions and              conjugations?
Message-ID: <161227084659.23782.1722932994477532666.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Sorry about the bad formatting. Yahoo Mail has been acting up lately.

I was thinking of working with a pandit to create some mp3 files with 
chanted audio of Sanskrit declensions and conjugations for teaching 
purposes. They would be made freely available on the internet. I haven't 
yet found anything quite right for that purpose.


Has this already been done somewhere?


Best,


Dean


Dean Michael Anderson

East West Cultural Institute




From hwtull at MSN.COM  Thu Jan 29 20:51:47 2009
From: hwtull at MSN.COM (Herman Tull)
Date: Thu, 29 Jan 09 15:51:47 -0500
Subject: chanted audio of sanskrit declensions and conjugations?
In-Reply-To: <498210b0.304.48198.13090@loyno.edu>
Message-ID: <161227084667.23782.14622445446376593314.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

I don't know if they are still available, but the Goldman and Goldman 
Sanskrit primer (Devavanipraveshika) had a set of tapes on which a pandit 
was recorded pronouncing all or most of the lessons.

Herman Tull
Princeton, NJ

--------------------------------------------------
From: "tccahill" <tccahill at LOYNO.EDU>
Sent: Thursday, January 29, 2009 3:25 PM
To: <INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: chanted audio of sanskrit declensions and conjugations?

>> I was thinking of working with a pandit to create some mo3
>> files with chanted audio of Sanskrit declensions and
>> conjugations for teaching purposes. They would be made
>> freely available on the internet. I haven't yet found
>> anything quite right for that purpose.Has this already
>> been done somewhere?Best,DeanDean Michael AndersonEast
>> West Cultural Institute
>
> http://www.loyno.edu/~tccahill/skt_sound_files.html
>
> Contains about 50 nouns and 20 verbs in mp3 format. The
> quality isn't great since most of the recordings were made
> in 1981-82. Some students have found them useful, but making
> one's own is always best!
>
> best,
> Tim Cahill
> 




From pankaj-jain at UIOWA.EDU  Thu Jan 29 18:57:41 2009
From: pankaj-jain at UIOWA.EDU (Pankaj Jain)
Date: Thu, 29 Jan 09 18:57:41 +0000
Subject: a request and an information about Jainism
Message-ID: <161227084662.23782.10416128084073298783.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Dear esteemed scholars,

I am preparing a list of all Jainism courses being taught in North America,
Europe, India, and elsewhere. If you or someone you know has taught a
standalone Jainism course (a full course on Jainism, not as a part of south
asian course), please email me offlist, thanks!

Please note a new website with all the Jain scriptures and thousands of
other Jain books: http://www.JainLibrary.org

There are about 1600 books (Scanned pdf file) on the website.  About 1000
books have very good scan quality and 600 books have average scan quality.
There are about 700,000 pages of information. 
 

Best,
Pankaj

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Pankaj Jain, PhD,
Lecturer at North Carolina State University
http://www.indicuniversity.org
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~




From pf8 at SOAS.AC.UK  Thu Jan 29 20:54:33 2009
From: pf8 at SOAS.AC.UK (Peter Flugel)
Date: Thu, 29 Jan 09 20:54:33 +0000
Subject: a request and an information about Jainism
In-Reply-To: <LISTSERV%200901291857417013.2AD7@LISTSERV.LIV.AC.UK>
Message-ID: <161227084670.23782.8345345670968043099.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

http://www.soas.ac.uk/jainastudies/

2009/1/29 Pankaj Jain <pankaj-jain at uiowa.edu>

> Dear esteemed scholars,
>
> I am preparing a list of all Jainism courses being taught in North America,
> Europe, India, and elsewhere. If you or someone you know has taught a
> standalone Jainism course (a full course on Jainism, not as a part of south
> asian course), please email me offlist, thanks!
>
> Please note a new website with all the Jain scriptures and thousands of
> other Jain books: http://www.JainLibrary.org <http://www.jainlibrary.org/>
>
> There are about 1600 books (Scanned pdf file) on the website.  About 1000
> books have very good scan quality and 600 books have average scan quality.
> There are about 700,000 pages of information.
>
>
> Best,
> Pankaj
>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> Pankaj Jain, PhD,
> Lecturer at North Carolina State University
> http://www.indicuniversity.org
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>



-- 
Dr Peter Fl?gel
Department of the Study of Religions
Faculty of Arts and Humanities
School of Oriental and African Studies
University of London
Thornhaugh Street
Russell Square
London WC1H OXG
Tel.: (+44-20) 7898 4776
E-mail: pf8 at soas.ac.uk




From utkragh at HUM.KU.DK  Fri Jan 30 02:57:10 2009
From: utkragh at HUM.KU.DK (Ulrich T. Kragh)
Date: Fri, 30 Jan 09 03:57:10 +0100
Subject: nakedness of female ascetics
Message-ID: <161227084673.23782.10558999054739024695.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Thank you very much to all, who responded to my query about nudity of female ascetics. Your responses were extremely helpful to me.
 
Sincerely,
Tim
 
Dr. Ulrich Timme Kragh
Assistant Professor
Geumgang Center for Buddhist Studies
Geumgang University, Dae-myeong Ri, Sang-wol Myeon
Nonsan-si, Chungnam 320-931, Republic of Korea
Tel. +82-41-731 3618




From scharf at BROWN.EDU  Fri Jan 30 22:44:46 2009
From: scharf at BROWN.EDU (Peter M. Scharf)
Date: Fri, 30 Jan 09 16:44:46 -0600
Subject: resending question on chanted audio of Sanskrit declensions              and conjugations?
In-Reply-To: <498179CC.8040202@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <161227084676.23782.10867817089237545518.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

I haven't explored the many Indian sites that are now including  
Sanskrit instructional materials on their sites.  There may be some.   
The tapes I have of one pandit reciting paradigms are good but his  
voice is not of the best quality.  If you find a pandit with a  
melifluous voice, clear pronunciation, and who recites in the proper  
order:

i.e. nominative sg., du., pl., vocative sg. du. pl, etc. for nominals
3rd sg. du. pl., 2nd. sg. du. pl. for verbs.
It'd be a good additiona I'm sure.

Yours,
Peter

On Jan 29, 2009, at 3:41 AM, Dean Michael Anderson wrote:

> Sorry about the bad formatting. Yahoo Mail has been acting up lately.
>
> I was thinking of working with a pandit to create some mp3 files  
> with chanted audio of Sanskrit declensions and conjugations for  
> teaching purposes. They would be made freely available on the  
> internet. I haven't yet found anything quite right for that purpose.
>
>
> Has this already been done somewhere?
>
>
> Best,
>
>
> Dean
>
>
> Dean Michael Anderson
>
> East West Cultural Institute

*********************************************************
Peter M. Scharf                           (401) 863-2720 office
Department of Classics             (401) 863-2123 dept.
Brown University
PO Box 1856                               (401) 863-7484 fax
Providence, RI 02912                Scharf at brown.edu
http://www.brown.edu/Departments/Classics/people/facultypage.php? 
id=10044
http://sanskritlibrary.org/
*********************************************************




From scharf at BROWN.EDU  Sat Jan 31 01:29:21 2009
From: scharf at BROWN.EDU (Peter M. Scharf)
Date: Fri, 30 Jan 09 19:29:21 -0600
Subject: resending question on chanted audio of Sanskrit declensions              and conjugations?
In-Reply-To: <49838660.40903@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <161227084681.23782.10868317708594854257.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Yes, that's what I'm saying.  There is no vocative case in Sanskrit.   
There are only 7 vibhaktis.  vocative is included in the 1st vibhakti  
so it should come immediately after it.
Peter

On Jan 30, 2009, at 4:59 PM, Dean Michael Anderson wrote:

> Hi Peter,
>
> Are you saying that the vocative is chanted after the nominative? I  
> always thought it was at the end - after the locative.
> Like this
> Nominative - Prathama
> Accusative - Dvitiya
> ....
> Locative - Saptami
> Vocative - Sambodhanam  <----------
>
> Best,
>
> Dean
>
> Peter M. Scharf wrote:
>> I haven't explored the many Indian sites that are now including  
>> Sanskrit instructional materials on their sites.  There may be  
>> some.  The tapes I have of one pandit reciting paradigms are good  
>> but his voice is not of the best quality.  If you find a pandit  
>> with a melifluous voice, clear pronunciation, and who recites in  
>> the proper order:
>>
>> i.e. nominative sg., du., pl., vocative sg. du. pl, etc. for nominals
>> 3rd sg. du. pl., 2nd. sg. du. pl. for verbs.
>> It'd be a good additiona I'm sure.
>>
>> Yours,
>> Peter
>>
>> On Jan 29, 2009, at 3:41 AM, Dean Michael Anderson wrote:
>>
>>> Sorry about the bad formatting. Yahoo Mail has been acting up  
>>> lately.
>>>
>>> I was thinking of working with a pandit to create some mp3 files  
>>> with chanted audio of Sanskrit declensions and conjugations for  
>>> teaching purposes. They would be made freely available on the  
>>> internet. I haven't yet found anything quite right for that purpose.
>>>
>>>
>>> Has this already been done somewhere?
>>>
>>>
>>> Best,
>>>
>>>
>>> Dean
>>>
>>>
>>> Dean Michael Anderson
>>>
>>> East West Cultural Institute
>>
>> *********************************************************
>> Peter M. Scharf                           (401) 863-2720 office
>> Department of Classics             (401) 863-2123 dept.
>> Brown University
>> PO Box 1856                               (401) 863-7484 fax
>> Providence, RI 02912                Scharf at brown.edu
>> http://www.brown.edu/Departments/Classics/people/facultypage.php? 
>> id=10044
>> http://sanskritlibrary.org/
>> *********************************************************
>>

*********************************************************
Peter M. Scharf                           (401) 863-2720 office
Department of Classics             (401) 863-2123 dept.
Brown University
PO Box 1856                               (401) 863-7484 fax
Providence, RI 02912                Scharf at brown.edu
http://www.brown.edu/Departments/Classics/people/facultypage.php? 
id=10044
http://sanskritlibrary.org/
*********************************************************




From eastwestcultural at YAHOO.COM  Fri Jan 30 22:59:44 2009
From: eastwestcultural at YAHOO.COM (Dean Michael Anderson)
Date: Sat, 31 Jan 09 04:29:44 +0530
Subject: resending question on chanted audio of Sanskrit declensions              and conjugations?
In-Reply-To: <0BD077C4-661E-43D7-8170-E4E991B931C2@brown.edu>
Message-ID: <161227084679.23782.11776318434248307092.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Hi Peter,

Are you saying that the vocative is chanted after the nominative? I 
always thought it was at the end - after the locative.
Like this
Nominative - Prathama
Accusative - Dvitiya
....
Locative - Saptami
Vocative - Sambodhanam  <----------

Best,

Dean

Peter M. Scharf wrote:
> I haven't explored the many Indian sites that are now including 
> Sanskrit instructional materials on their sites.  There may be some.  
> The tapes I have of one pandit reciting paradigms are good but his 
> voice is not of the best quality.  If you find a pandit with a 
> melifluous voice, clear pronunciation, and who recites in the proper 
> order:
>
> i.e. nominative sg., du., pl., vocative sg. du. pl, etc. for nominals
> 3rd sg. du. pl., 2nd. sg. du. pl. for verbs.
> It'd be a good additiona I'm sure.
>
> Yours,
> Peter
>
> On Jan 29, 2009, at 3:41 AM, Dean Michael Anderson wrote:
>
>> Sorry about the bad formatting. Yahoo Mail has been acting up lately.
>>
>> I was thinking of working with a pandit to create some mp3 files with 
>> chanted audio of Sanskrit declensions and conjugations for teaching 
>> purposes. They would be made freely available on the internet. I 
>> haven't yet found anything quite right for that purpose.
>>
>>
>> Has this already been done somewhere?
>>
>>
>> Best,
>>
>>
>> Dean
>>
>>
>> Dean Michael Anderson
>>
>> East West Cultural Institute
>
> *********************************************************
> Peter M. Scharf                           (401) 863-2720 office
> Department of Classics             (401) 863-2123 dept.
> Brown University
> PO Box 1856                               (401) 863-7484 fax
> Providence, RI 02912                Scharf at brown.edu
> http://www.brown.edu/Departments/Classics/people/facultypage.php?id=10044
> http://sanskritlibrary.org/
> *********************************************************
>




From ssandahl at SYMPATICO.CA  Sat Jan 31 12:19:30 2009
From: ssandahl at SYMPATICO.CA (Stella Sandahl)
Date: Sat, 31 Jan 09 07:19:30 -0500
Subject: resending question on chanted audio of Sanskrit declensions              and conjugations?
In-Reply-To: <F2369A77-7F1B-44F4-9F98-FBE0B5A7FFF4@brown.edu>
Message-ID: <161227084684.23782.15879832910112706680.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

A couple of years ago I received this message from Madhav Deshpande.  
I assume it is still available.

"A freely downloadable complete set of MP3 audio files in my voice  
for my book "Samskrta-Subodhini: A Sanskrit Primer" (published by the  
Center for South Asian Studies, University of Michigan, Ann Arbor,  
Michigan) is now available at the following URL:

http://www.umich.edu/~iinet/csas/publications/sanskrit/audio.html

My students liked it very much.
Stella Sandahl





On 30-Jan-09, at 8:29 PM, Peter M. Scharf wrote:

> Yes, that's what I'm saying.  There is no vocative case in  
> Sanskrit.  There are only 7 vibhaktis.  vocative is included in the  
> 1st vibhakti so it should come immediately after it.
> Peter
>
> On Jan 30, 2009, at 4:59 PM, Dean Michael Anderson wrote:
>
>> Hi Peter,
>>
>> Are you saying that the vocative is chanted after the nominative?  
>> I always thought it was at the end - after the locative.
>> Like this
>> Nominative - Prathama
>> Accusative - Dvitiya
>> ....
>> Locative - Saptami
>> Vocative - Sambodhanam  <----------
>>
>> Best,
>>
>> Dean
>>
>> Peter M. Scharf wrote:
>>> I haven't explored the many Indian sites that are now including  
>>> Sanskrit instructional materials on their sites.  There may be  
>>> some.  The tapes I have of one pandit reciting paradigms are good  
>>> but his voice is not of the best quality.  If you find a pandit  
>>> with a melifluous voice, clear pronunciation, and who recites in  
>>> the proper order:
>>>
>>> i.e. nominative sg., du., pl., vocative sg. du. pl, etc. for  
>>> nominals
>>> 3rd sg. du. pl., 2nd. sg. du. pl. for verbs.
>>> It'd be a good additiona I'm sure.
>>>
>>> Yours,
>>> Peter
>>>
>>> On Jan 29, 2009, at 3:41 AM, Dean Michael Anderson wrote:
>>>
>>>> Sorry about the bad formatting. Yahoo Mail has been acting up  
>>>> lately.
>>>>
>>>> I was thinking of working with a pandit to create some mp3 files  
>>>> with chanted audio of Sanskrit declensions and conjugations for  
>>>> teaching purposes. They would be made freely available on the  
>>>> internet. I haven't yet found anything quite right for that  
>>>> purpose.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Has this already been done somewhere?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Best,
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Dean
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Dean Michael Anderson
>>>>
>>>> East West Cultural Institute
>>>
>>> *********************************************************
>>> Peter M. Scharf                           (401) 863-2720 office
>>> Department of Classics             (401) 863-2123 dept.
>>> Brown University
>>> PO Box 1856                               (401) 863-7484 fax
>>> Providence, RI 02912                Scharf at brown.edu
>>> http://www.brown.edu/Departments/Classics/people/facultypage.php? 
>>> id=10044
>>> http://sanskritlibrary.org/
>>> *********************************************************
>>>
>
> *********************************************************
> Peter M. Scharf                           (401) 863-2720 office
> Department of Classics             (401) 863-2123 dept.
> Brown University
> PO Box 1856                               (401) 863-7484 fax
> Providence, RI 02912                Scharf at brown.edu
> http://www.brown.edu/Departments/Classics/people/facultypage.php? 
> id=10044
> http://sanskritlibrary.org/
> *********************************************************
>




From cardonagj at EARTHLINK.NET  Sat Jan 31 14:00:25 2009
From: cardonagj at EARTHLINK.NET (George Cardona)
Date: Sat, 31 Jan 09 09:00:25 -0500
Subject: resending question on chanted audio of Sanskrit declensions              and conjugations?
Message-ID: <161227084686.23782.5557161132153873544.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

In this connection, note that the prakriyaa show both orders. They give the vocative forms after three forms (sg., du., pl.) of the first triplet (nominative); e.g., v.rk.sas v.rk.sau v.rk.saa.h, v.rk.sa, v.rk.sau, v.rk.saa.h (Ruupaavataara), raama.h raamau raamaa.h, raama raamau raamaa.h (Siddhaantakaumudii).  The Ruupamaalaa, on the other hand, gives 'sukla 'suklau 'suklaa.h after the forms of the seventh triplet (locative). This does not mean that a syntactically distinct vocative set is recognized.  According to Paa.nini, the first triplet of endings (prathamaa) is introduced on condition that invocation (sambodhana) is involved (2.3.47: sambodhane ca [prathamaa]); the endings in question then bear the class name aamantritam (2.3.48: saamantritam), and the first or singular ending (ekavacanam) of the set is called sambuddhi (2.3.49: ekavacana.m sambuddhi.h).  George Cardona

-----Original Message-----
>From: "Peter M. Scharf" <scharf at BROWN.EDU>
>Sent: Jan 30, 2009 8:29 PM
>To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk
>Subject: Re: resending question on chanted audio of Sanskrit declensions and conjugations?
>
>Yes, that's what I'm saying.  There is no vocative case in Sanskrit.   
>There are only 7 vibhaktis.  vocative is included in the 1st vibhakti  
>so it should come immediately after it.
>Peter
>
>On Jan 30, 2009, at 4:59 PM, Dean Michael Anderson wrote:
>
>> Hi Peter,
>>
>> Are you saying that the vocative is chanted after the nominative? I  
>> always thought it was at the end - after the locative.
>> Like this
>> Nominative - Prathama
>> Accusative - Dvitiya
>> ....
>> Locative - Saptami
>> Vocative - Sambodhanam  <----------
>>
>> Best,
>>
>> Dean
>>
>> Peter M. Scharf wrote:
>>> I haven't explored the many Indian sites that are now including  
>>> Sanskrit instructional materials on their sites.  There may be  
>>> some.  The tapes I have of one pandit reciting paradigms are good  
>>> but his voice is not of the best quality.  If you find a pandit  
>>> with a melifluous voice, clear pronunciation, and who recites in  
>>> the proper order:
>>>
>>> i.e. nominative sg., du., pl., vocative sg. du. pl, etc. for nominals
>>> 3rd sg. du. pl., 2nd. sg. du. pl. for verbs.
>>> It'd be a good additiona I'm sure.
>>>
>>> Yours,
>>> Peter
>>>
>>> On Jan 29, 2009, at 3:41 AM, Dean Michael Anderson wrote:
>>>
>>>> Sorry about the bad formatting. Yahoo Mail has been acting up  
>>>> lately.
>>>>
>>>> I was thinking of working with a pandit to create some mp3 files  
>>>> with chanted audio of Sanskrit declensions and conjugations for  
>>>> teaching purposes. They would be made freely available on the  
>>>> internet. I haven't yet found anything quite right for that purpose.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Has this already been done somewhere?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Best,
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Dean
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Dean Michael Anderson
>>>>
>>>> East West Cultural Institute
>>>
>>> *********************************************************
>>> Peter M. Scharf                           (401) 863-2720 office
>>> Department of Classics             (401) 863-2123 dept.
>>> Brown University
>>> PO Box 1856                               (401) 863-7484 fax
>>> Providence, RI 02912                Scharf at brown.edu
>>> http://www.brown.edu/Departments/Classics/people/facultypage.php? 
>>> id=10044
>>> http://sanskritlibrary.org/
>>> *********************************************************
>>>
>
>*********************************************************
>Peter M. Scharf                           (401) 863-2720 office
>Department of Classics             (401) 863-2123 dept.
>Brown University
>PO Box 1856                               (401) 863-7484 fax
>Providence, RI 02912                Scharf at brown.edu
>http://www.brown.edu/Departments/Classics/people/facultypage.php? 
>id=10044
>http://sanskritlibrary.org/
>*********************************************************




From Palaniappa at AOL.COM  Sat Jan 31 18:27:27 2009
From: Palaniappa at AOL.COM (Sudalaimuthu Palaniappan)
Date: Sat, 31 Jan 09 13:27:27 -0500
Subject: Jaffna Tamil Kingdom
Message-ID: <161227084688.23782.2862698172682516336.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Dear Indologists,
 
I seem to remember reading long time ago a book on Jaffna history that the  
Jaffna kingdom was founded by Ariyac Cakkaravartti, a Tamil brahmin general of  
the Pandiyan king and that as a result Jaffna Tamil kings used to marry  
brahmin women from Ramesvaram. I do not remember if it was the book by  
Arasaratnam or Padmanathan. Does anybody have the reference?
 
Thanks in advance.
 
Regards,
Palaniappan
**************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy 
steps! 
(http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1215855013x1201028747/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072%26hmpgID=62%26bcd=De
cemailfooterNO62)




From mmdesh at UMICH.EDU  Sat Jan 31 20:11:45 2009
From: mmdesh at UMICH.EDU (Deshpande, Madhav)
Date: Sat, 31 Jan 09 15:11:45 -0500
Subject: resending question on chanted audio of Sanskrit declensions              and conjugations?
In-Reply-To: <12811042.1233410425642.JavaMail.root@elwamui-huard.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <161227084690.23782.15727077598350889533.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

In the traditionally popular verse using all case forms of the word rAma, the vocative comes at the end, after the locative:

rAmo rAjamaNiH sadA vijayate rAmaM ramezaM bhaje
rAmeNAbhihatA nizAcaracamUH rAmAya tasmai namaH /
rAmAn nAsti parAyaNaM parataraM rAmasya dAso'smy aham
rAme cittalayaH sadA bhavatu me bho rAma mAm udhara //

This was also the common order in the old zabdarUpAvali manuals I remember from Pune.

Madhav Deshpande


________________________________________
From: Indology [INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk] On Behalf Of George Cardona [cardonagj at EARTHLINK.NET]
Sent: Saturday, January 31, 2009 9:00 AM
To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk
Subject: Re: resending question on chanted audio of Sanskrit declensions and conjugations?

In this connection, note that the prakriyaa show both orders. They give the vocative forms after three forms (sg., du., pl.) of the first triplet (nominative); e.g., v.rk.sas v.rk.sau v.rk.saa.h, v.rk.sa, v.rk.sau, v.rk.saa.h (Ruupaavataara), raama.h raamau raamaa.h, raama raamau raamaa.h (Siddhaantakaumudii).  The Ruupamaalaa, on the other hand, gives 'sukla 'suklau 'suklaa.h after the forms of the seventh triplet (locative). This does not mean that a syntactically distinct vocative set is recognized.  According to Paa.nini, the first triplet of endings (prathamaa) is introduced on condition that invocation (sambodhana) is involved (2.3.47: sambodhane ca [prathamaa]); the endings in question then bear the class name aamantritam (2.3.48: saamantritam), and the first or singular ending (ekavacanam) of the set is called sambuddhi (2.3.49: ekavacana.m sambuddhi.h).  George Cardona

-----Original Message-----
>From: "Peter M. Scharf" <scharf at BROWN.EDU>
>Sent: Jan 30, 2009 8:29 PM
>To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk
>Subject: Re: resending question on chanted audio of Sanskrit declensions and conjugations?
>
>Yes, that's what I'm saying.  There is no vocative case in Sanskrit.
>There are only 7 vibhaktis.  vocative is included in the 1st vibhakti
>so it should come immediately after it.
>Peter
>
>On Jan 30, 2009, at 4:59 PM, Dean Michael Anderson wrote:
>
>> Hi Peter,
>>
>> Are you saying that the vocative is chanted after the nominative? I
>> always thought it was at the end - after the locative.
>> Like this
>> Nominative - Prathama
>> Accusative - Dvitiya
>> ....
>> Locative - Saptami
>> Vocative - Sambodhanam  <----------
>>
>> Best,
>>
>> Dean
>>
>> Peter M. Scharf wrote:
>>> I haven't explored the many Indian sites that are now including
>>> Sanskrit instructional materials on their sites.  There may be
>>> some.  The tapes I have of one pandit reciting paradigms are good
>>> but his voice is not of the best quality.  If you find a pandit
>>> with a melifluous voice, clear pronunciation, and who recites in
>>> the proper order:
>>>
>>> i.e. nominative sg., du., pl., vocative sg. du. pl, etc. for nominals
>>> 3rd sg. du. pl., 2nd. sg. du. pl. for verbs.
>>> It'd be a good additiona I'm sure.
>>>
>>> Yours,
>>> Peter
>>>
>>> On Jan 29, 2009, at 3:41 AM, Dean Michael Anderson wrote:
>>>
>>>> Sorry about the bad formatting. Yahoo Mail has been acting up
>>>> lately.
>>>>
>>>> I was thinking of working with a pandit to create some mp3 files
>>>> with chanted audio of Sanskrit declensions and conjugations for
>>>> teaching purposes. They would be made freely available on the
>>>> internet. I haven't yet found anything quite right for that purpose.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Has this already been done somewhere?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Best,
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Dean
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Dean Michael Anderson
>>>>
>>>> East West Cultural Institute
>>>
>>> *********************************************************
>>> Peter M. Scharf                           (401) 863-2720 office
>>> Department of Classics             (401) 863-2123 dept.
>>> Brown University
>>> PO Box 1856                               (401) 863-7484 fax
>>> Providence, RI 02912                Scharf at brown.edu
>>> http://www.brown.edu/Departments/Classics/people/facultypage.php?
>>> id=10044
>>> http://sanskritlibrary.org/
>>> *********************************************************
>>>
>
>*********************************************************
>Peter M. Scharf                           (401) 863-2720 office
>Department of Classics             (401) 863-2123 dept.
>Brown University
>PO Box 1856                               (401) 863-7484 fax
>Providence, RI 02912                Scharf at brown.edu
>http://www.brown.edu/Departments/Classics/people/facultypage.php?
>id=10044
>http://sanskritlibrary.org/
>*********************************************************




From ucgadkw at UCL.AC.UK  Sat Jan 31 20:44:44 2009
From: ucgadkw at UCL.AC.UK (Dominik Wujastyk)
Date: Sat, 31 Jan 09 20:44:44 +0000
Subject: Job advertisement: Full Professor, Modern South Asian Studies,              Leiden University
Message-ID: <161227084692.23782.8330243964988133287.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io>

Full Professor, Modern South Asian Studies
Leiden University Faculty of the Humanities
Leiden, 2300 RA (Zuid-Holland), 38 hours per week

Job description
The successful candidate will work within one or more disciplines in the 
Arts and Humanities, and/or Social and Political Sciences. He/she will 
conduct research and teaching on the South Asian subcontinent, with a 
demonstrable competency in one or more languages of the region. Modern 
should be interpreted as including (late) colonial as well as 
post-independence South Asia.

more at:
http://www.jobs.ac.uk/jobs/XE878/Full_Professor_Modern_South_Asian_Studies/