From s.hodge at PADMACHOLING.PLUS.COM Sun Oct 1 14:51:40 2006 From: s.hodge at PADMACHOLING.PLUS.COM (Stephen Hodge) Date: Sun, 01 Oct 06 15:51:40 +0100 Subject: Burmese mss ? Message-ID: <161227078334.23782.4845425426342547400.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Dear George, Here is some more information for your friend. Best wishes, Stephen Hodge From: To: Sent: Sunday, October 01, 2006 9:43 AM Subject: Re: [palistudy] Re: Burmese mss ? > This is a strange piece for a number of reasons. I just > looked at it a few minutes ago, since I had never seen the > original message (thanks for sending it to me Jim).It is in > Pali (Kammavaca), clearly written in Yuan script. However, it > was produced probably no earlier than the 1930s on Pap Saa > paper (the insect holes in the Pap Saa paper came after the > writing as the cracks and holes run through the writing). > These insects can eat through the paper pretty quickly. You > often see it on Pap Saa and woodpulp paper more than 40-50 > years old. This type of black Pap Saa was first used in the > 1830s. The famous Thong Noi edition produced under the > direction of Raama III and later promoted by Raama IV was the > well-known edition composed on this black paper in gold > script. However, the Thong Noi, finished about 1843 (by Mae > Chi scribes actually) was in Khom script. This piece seems to > be a Northern Thai adaptation of the Thong Noi edition. Or > perhaps held that as an ideal. There are three very good Thai > books on the history of these manuscripts, editions, paper > quality, etc. Sadly, all three are out of print and hard to > find now. I can send the citations if anyone is interested. > > Reproducing famous Siamese editions in Yuan script became > popular in the 1930s (Chiang Mai officially became a > Changwat/Province in 1929). With the condition of the Pap Saa > paper and the gold writing (actual flecks of gold used to > produce it and it lasts a long time), I would guess (and this > can only be a guess without actually feeling the paper and the > script) it could be as old as 1935ish. There was another > period of Northern Thai repoduction of Siamese manuscripts in > the 1990s (around time of 700 anniversary of CM and the > "Amazing Thailand" tourist campaign). But, of course mss. for > ceremoninal purposes were produced regularly. However, this > paper is evenly eaten and the script was not added to old paper. > > Phra Dhammanando is absolutely correct, Kammavaacaa are the > most popular texts on the tourist market (this is because the > Mon and Burmese Kammavaacaa are so elaborate and became very > popular for collectors (as far back as the colonial period in > Burma -- Noel Singer has written about this). The Thai > followed this popularity. However, this was not necessary a > tourist production. Just as Burmese Kammavaacaa were not > tourist productions, but were just produced in such great > numbers they flooded the market. They are easy to find at > River City in Bangkok and to a lesser extent on Chaloen Krung, > The Old Siam Mall, the book section of Chatuchak market and > sometimes in the small amulet market near Wat Thidawanaram on > Thanon Mahachai. Chiang Mai's Night Bazaar has an older > section near the Mae Ping hotel which also has some Burmese > manuscripts for tourists. > > The Paali is clear, the writing is > well-done (usually tourist pieces are poorly written and based > on vernacular Kammavaacaa Nissaya mss. which are much more > common in the area to copy). Moreover, most "fakes" are > produced on wood-pulp paper soaked in coffee (to age it) and > then the edges are burnt slightly. Moreover, the text of most > fakes in the region of Northern Thailand, is Tibetan! This is > because Manali people (from North Central Nepal) are the > biggest tourist market traders (mostly semi-precious gems, but > also other items like fake manuscripts) and move and trade > from Katmandu to Singapore to Melacca to Chiang Mai to Bangkok > and now even to Siem Reap, Luang Phrabang and Hoi An. That is > why you can largely find the same tourist items in Katmandu > and Chiang Mai. Prista Ratanapruck has written about this. > Tourists will buy almost anything fake, it doesn't take this > much work to fool them. This manuscript is a little too > well-produced in my opinion to be produced for tourists. > Instead, I guess that it was produced as ceremonial gift > (probably in honor of an ordination) and then sold later by a > lay family in control of a monastic library. The paper is old > (and doesn't seem to be unnaturally aged). Maybe 1935ish. It's > a common text though of course, hundreds of copies, but black > pap saa with gold writing in Yuan is odd. Thanks for the photo. > > Best, > justin > ______________ > Dr. Justin McDaniel > Dept. of Religious Studies > 2617 Humanities Building > University of California, Riverside > Riverside, CA 92521 > 951-827-4530 > justinm at ucr.edu > From lnelson at SANDIEGO.EDU Mon Oct 2 14:37:22 2006 From: lnelson at SANDIEGO.EDU (Lance Nelson) Date: Mon, 02 Oct 06 07:37:22 -0700 Subject: Critical Edition of Bhagavata Purana In-Reply-To: <700CB921-E49D-4F88-B79E-A72A6F228740@theology.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: <161227078350.23782.1012477592365131662.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Not properly a critical edition, but readily available for purchase, at least in India, is J. L. Shastri's edition, in paperback. For those who might not be aware . . . Lance Shastri, J. L., ed. 1999. Bhagavata Purana of Krsna Dvaipayana Vyasa: With Sanskrit Commentary Bhavarthabodhini of Sridhara Svamin. Delhi: Motilal Banarsidas. On 2 Oct 2006 at 14:24, Jonathan Edelmann wrote: > I am looking to purchase a critical edition of the Bhagavata Purana. > ---------------------- Lance Nelson Theology & Religious Studies University of San Diego From jkirk at SPRO.NET Mon Oct 2 14:17:01 2006 From: jkirk at SPRO.NET (jkirk) Date: Mon, 02 Oct 06 08:17:01 -0600 Subject: Critical Edition of Bhagavata Purana Message-ID: <161227078339.23782.5884437860000087441.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> You might try contacting the Ames Library at U Minnesota to see if they have it, or to ask how to get in touch with the MS University in Baroda's Oriental Inst. I tried getting some listed websites at MSU to no avail. Ames Lib. Curator-Donald C Johnson This email link might get you to the curator: http://infopoint.lib.umn.edu/email.phtml http://ames.lib.umn.edu/daledu.phtml >???From the Ames site: Maharaja Sayajirao University of Baroda http://www.msub.edu [these links get 404s] Maharajah Sayajirao Gaekwad established Baroda College in 1880 and a succession of additional institutions of higher education followed over the next 50 years, including the famed Oriental Institute. In 1949 these institutions were brought together as the M.S. University of Baroda. Site gives a history of the university, academic departments, administions procedures, etc. Joanna Kirkpatrick Bennington College, retd. ================================================== ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jonathan Edelmann" To: Sent: Monday, October 02, 2006 7:24 AM Subject: Critical Edition of Bhagavata Purana > Dear All, > > I am looking to purchase a critical edition of the Bhagavata Purana. > > Ludo Rocher mentions in his study of the Puranas (1986) that a critical > edition of it may be under way at the University of Gujerat. Does anyone > know if that happened or is happening? > > I've also heard there is a critical edition of the BP published in > Baroda. Does anyone have a reference, or know how it can be obtained > (aside from going to Baroda!). > > Sincerely, > Jonathan Edelmann > > PhD Student > Oxford University > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.1.407 / Virus Database: 268.12.10/459 - Release Date: 9/29/2006 > > From mkapstei at UCHICAGO.EDU Mon Oct 2 14:34:36 2006 From: mkapstei at UCHICAGO.EDU (Matthew Kapstein) Date: Mon, 02 Oct 06 09:34:36 -0500 Subject: Critical Edition of Bhagavata Purana In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227078348.23782.4642418775800475002.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> I seem to recall that H. Isaacson, now at Hamburg, mentioned these editions during a talk at the University of Chicago at couple of years ago. He might be able to help. During the last few years Biblia Impex in Delhi has succeeded in digging up all sorts of diffcult-to-find odds and ends I've ordered. They might be worth a try as well. Matthew Kapstein (Paris and Chicago) From toke_knudsen at MAC.COM Mon Oct 2 14:34:15 2006 From: toke_knudsen at MAC.COM (Toke Lindegaard Knudsen) Date: Mon, 02 Oct 06 10:34:15 -0400 Subject: Critical Edition of Bhagavata Purana In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227078346.23782.18101017280400722031.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> On Monday, October 02, 2006, at 10:22AM, Peter Wyzlic wrote: > I have noted the following publication: > > Keshavram Kashiram Shastree (ed.): The BhAgavata > mahApurANa (oldest Devanagari version. - Part 1-2. - > Ahmedabad : Shrimad Vallabh Vishvadharma Samstha, 2002 > > But I've not seen it yet. At least some volumes of this publication are listed for sale at www.bibliaimpex.com (go to the website and search for "bhagavata critical"). Sincerely, Toke From jonathan.edelmann at THEOLOGY.OXFORD.AC.UK Mon Oct 2 13:24:08 2006 From: jonathan.edelmann at THEOLOGY.OXFORD.AC.UK (Jonathan Edelmann) Date: Mon, 02 Oct 06 14:24:08 +0100 Subject: Critical Edition of Bhagavata Purana In-Reply-To: <1b99258e47342aa226e1b72bb6dcdec8@fas.harvard.edu> Message-ID: <161227078336.23782.15567608845792406431.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Dear All, I am looking to purchase a critical edition of the Bhagavata Purana. Ludo Rocher mentions in his study of the Puranas (1986) that a critical edition of it may be under way at the University of Gujerat. Does anyone know if that happened or is happening? I've also heard there is a critical edition of the BP published in Baroda. Does anyone have a reference, or know how it can be obtained (aside from going to Baroda!). Sincerely, Jonathan Edelmann PhD Student Oxford University From ucgadkw at UCL.AC.UK Mon Oct 2 14:25:57 2006 From: ucgadkw at UCL.AC.UK (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Mon, 02 Oct 06 15:25:57 +0100 Subject: Critical Edition of Bhagavata Purana In-Reply-To: <700CB921-E49D-4F88-B79E-A72A6F228740@theology.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: <161227078344.23782.12050782135787178254.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> The best person to answer this is probably Prof. Peter Schreiner at Zurich. He has done major work on the puranas in general, and also knows the scholars at the Univ. of GujArat well. Getting books from India is often an "interesting" process. D. K. Agencies has a quite well-developed website through which one can buy books; they can be a bit pricey, but their company is well-run. The same can be said for several other booksellers; see the list of publishers and distributors collected at http://indology.info. Motilal Banarsidass has a terrible website, but if you send an email request for a book directly to them , they are often good about posting it out, and they can get nearly anything (not only their own publications). Best, Dominik On Mon, 2 Oct 2006, Jonathan Edelmann wrote: > Dear All, > > I am looking to purchase a critical edition of the Bhagavata Purana. > > Ludo Rocher mentions in his study of the Puranas (1986) that a critical > edition of it may be under way at the University of Gujerat. Does anyone > know if that happened or is happening? > > I've also heard there is a critical edition of the BP published in Baroda. > Does anyone have a reference, or know how it can be obtained (aside from > going to Baroda!). > > Sincerely, > Jonathan Edelmann > > PhD Student > Oxford University From pwyzlic at UNI-BONN.DE Mon Oct 2 14:21:57 2006 From: pwyzlic at UNI-BONN.DE (Peter Wyzlic) Date: Mon, 02 Oct 06 16:21:57 +0200 Subject: Critical Edition of Bhagavata Purana In-Reply-To: <700CB921-E49D-4F88-B79E-A72A6F228740@theology.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: <161227078341.23782.3528611084636825261.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> On Mon, 2 Oct 2006 14:24:08 +0100 Jonathan Edelmann wrote: > I am looking to purchase a critical edition of the >Bhagavata Purana. > > Ludo Rocher mentions in his study of the Puranas (1986) >that a critical edition of it may be under way at the >University of Gujerat. Does anyone know if that >happened or is happening? I have noted the following publication: Keshavram Kashiram Shastree (ed.): The BhAgavata mahApurANa (oldest Devanagari version. - Part 1-2. - Ahmedabad : Shrimad Vallabh Vishvadharma Samstha, 2002 But I've not seen it yet. My source was a review in: Journal of the Oriental Institute [Baroda]. 52 (2002), p. 335-336. > I've also heard there is a critical edition of the BP >published in Baroda. Does anyone have a reference, or >know how it can be obtained (aside from going to >Baroda!). If it exists, it does not seem to have found its way into the libraries. In recent years, some commentaries of the Bhagavatam have been published; e.g. Vallabhacarya's Sri Subodhini and that of Anandatirtha (ed. by K. T. Pandurangi). Hope it helps Peter Wyzlic -- Indologisches Seminar der Universit?t Bonn Regina-Pacis-Weg 7 D-53113 Bonn Deutschland / Germany From vielle at ORI.UCL.AC.BE Mon Oct 2 16:29:54 2006 From: vielle at ORI.UCL.AC.BE (Christophe Vielle) Date: Mon, 02 Oct 06 18:29:54 +0200 Subject: Critical Edition of Bhagavata Purana In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227078353.23782.17278577767150528841.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Despite the critics of H. Isaacson (made also in the form of a paper at the XIIth World Sanskrit Conference held in Helsinki), the recent critical edition of the BhgP that I have here in my office is a very useful one and can indeed be purchased through DK Agency or Biblia Impex books. The general editor is H.G. Shastri, and the four volumes were issued in Ahmedabad, at the B.J. Institute of Learning and Research in 1996-1998. (unfortunately I have not the e-mail of Mrs Dr. Bharati K. Shelat who is, I think, the director of this Institute and could inform us if the volumes are still available). Hoping it can help, Christophe Vielle >I seem to recall that H. Isaacson, now at Hamburg, >mentioned these editions during a talk at the University >of Chicago at couple of years ago. He might be >able to help. > >During the last few years Biblia Impex in Delhi has >succeeded in digging up all sorts of diffcult-to-find >odds and ends I've ordered. They might be worth a >try as well. > >Matthew Kapstein >(Paris and Chicago) On Mon, 2 Oct 2006 14:24:08 +0100 Jonathan Edelmann wrote: > I am looking to purchase a critical edition of the >Bhagavata Purana. > > Ludo Rocher mentions in his study of the Puranas (1986) >that a critical edition of it may be under way at the >University of Gujerat. Does anyone know if that >happened or is happening? I have noted the following publication: Keshavram Kashiram Shastree (ed.): The BhAgavata mahApurANa (oldest Devanagari version. - Part 1-2. - Ahmedabad : Shrimad Vallabh Vishvadharma Samstha, 2002 But I've not seen it yet. My source was a review in: Journal of the Oriental Institute [Baroda]. 52 (2002), p. 335-336. > I've also heard there is a critical edition of the BP >published in Baroda. Does anyone have a reference, or >know how it can be obtained (aside from going to >Baroda!). If it exists, it does not seem to have found its way into the libraries. In recent years, some commentaries of the Bhagavatam have been published; e.g. Vallabhacarya's Sri Subodhini and that of Anandatirtha (ed. by K. T. Pandurangi). Hope it helps Peter Wyzlic Dr. Christophe Vielle Centre d'Etudes de l'Inde et de l'Asie du Sud Institut orientaliste, Universit? de Louvain Place Blaise Pascal 1 B - 1348 Louvain-la-Neuve BELGIUM Tel. +32-(0)10-47 49 54 or 58 (office)/ -(0)2-640 62 66 (home) E-mail: christophe.vielle at uclouvain.be From petteri.koskikallio at HELSINKI.FI Mon Oct 2 17:55:06 2006 From: petteri.koskikallio at HELSINKI.FI (Petteri Koskikallio) Date: Mon, 02 Oct 06 20:55:06 +0300 Subject: Critical Edition of Bhagavata Purana In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227078355.23782.17987591842323121468.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Just to add some details to Christophe's clarifying message: According to the Biblia Impex website the whole series is still available (I bought mine through them a few years ago). Yes, I think Dr. Bharati Shelat is the current Director of the B.J. Institute of Learning and Research that published the edition (4 volumes in 6 parts). Her address is the following: Dr. Bharati K. Shelat B.J. Institute of Learning and Research Ashram Road Ahmedabad - 380 009 INDIA I have contacted her via Dr. Urmi Shah's e-mail (suvikshah at wilnetonline.net). It is a pity that Harunaga Isaacson's Helsinki paper will not be among the articles to be published (in 2007) in the Puranic volume of the 12th WSC Proceedings. He simply did not submit it for publication. Petteri Koskikallio ---- Christophe Vielle wrote: > Despite the critics of H. Isaacson (made also in the form of a paper at the > XIIth World Sanskrit Conference held in Helsinki), the recent critical > edition of the BhgP that I have here in my office is a very useful one and > can indeed be purchased through DK Agency or Biblia Impex books. > The general editor is H.G. Shastri, and the four volumes were issued in > Ahmedabad, at the B.J. Institute of Learning and Research in 1996-1998. > (unfortunately I have not the e-mail of Mrs Dr. Bharati K. Shelat who is, I > think, the director of this Institute and could inform us if the volumes > are still available). > Hoping it can help, > Christophe Vielle > > >> I seem to recall that H. Isaacson, now at Hamburg, >> mentioned these editions during a talk at the University >> of Chicago at couple of years ago. He might be >> able to help. >> >> During the last few years Biblia Impex in Delhi has >> succeeded in digging up all sorts of diffcult-to-find >> odds and ends I've ordered. They might be worth a >> try as well. >> >> Matthew Kapstein >> (Paris and Chicago) >> > > > On Mon, 2 Oct 2006 14:24:08 +0100 > Jonathan Edelmann > wrote: > > >> I am looking to purchase a critical edition of the >> Bhagavata Purana. >> >> Ludo Rocher mentions in his study of the Puranas (1986) >> that a critical edition of it may be under way at the >> University of Gujerat. Does anyone know if that >> happened or is happening? >> > > I have noted the following publication: > > Keshavram Kashiram Shastree (ed.): The BhAgavata > mahApurANa (oldest Devanagari version. - Part 1-2. - > Ahmedabad : Shrimad Vallabh Vishvadharma Samstha, 2002 > > But I've not seen it yet. My source was a review in: > Journal of the Oriental Institute [Baroda]. 52 (2002), p. > 335-336. > > >> I've also heard there is a critical edition of the BP >> published in Baroda. Does anyone have a reference, or >> know how it can be obtained (aside from going to >> Baroda!). >> > > If it exists, it does not seem to have found its way into > the libraries. In recent years, some commentaries of the > Bhagavatam have been published; e.g. Vallabhacarya's Sri > Subodhini and that of Anandatirtha (ed. by K. T. > Pandurangi). > > Hope it helps > Peter Wyzlic > > Dr. Christophe Vielle > Centre d'Etudes de l'Inde et de l'Asie du Sud > Institut orientaliste, Universit? de Louvain > Place Blaise Pascal 1 > B - 1348 Louvain-la-Neuve > BELGIUM > Tel. +32-(0)10-47 49 54 or 58 (office)/ -(0)2-640 62 66 (home) > E-mail: christophe.vielle at uclouvain.be > From mkapstei at UCHICAGO.EDU Tue Oct 3 16:39:29 2006 From: mkapstei at UCHICAGO.EDU (Matthew Kapstein) Date: Tue, 03 Oct 06 11:39:29 -0500 Subject: Critical Edition of Bhagavata Purana In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227078362.23782.5715409691803585922.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> It is depressing to learn of the problems mentioned in Dominik's last posting. Does anyone know of Sanskrit publishers and distributers (besides the Harvard Oriental Series....!) who are assuredly 100% nirmala when it comes to far right ideologies? Unfortunately, Sanskrit itself is a theatre in the current ideological war. I fear that many of us who love the language and aspects of the culture it embodies may find ourselves imbricated in various insidious ways in battles we never bargained for. Matthew Kapstein From ucgadkw at UCL.AC.UK Tue Oct 3 13:59:14 2006 From: ucgadkw at UCL.AC.UK (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Tue, 03 Oct 06 14:59:14 +0100 Subject: None Message-ID: <161227078357.23782.6241927649264603666.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> There's a new scheme for bringing scholars from South Asia to Britain as research fellows: "British Academy and the ESRC announce new Visiting Fellowship collaboration The Economic and Social Research Council (ESRC) and the British Academy have today announced a new joint scheme to fund Visiting Fellowships from South Asia and the Middle East. The fellowships, which will be a minimum of two months in duration, aim to attract early-career researchers particularly from South Asia and the Middle East to collaborate on research. It is also hoped that through these Visiting Fellowships longer term plans for collaborative research could be developed." Maximum grant ?12,000 (i.e., FEC ?15,000). Closing date for applications: 15 November 2006, for visits from 4/07-3/08. Applicants must have obtained their doctorates after 1 January 2001. For full details, see: http://www.britac.ac.uk/news/bulletin/bulletin-vfcollaboration.html -- DW From ucgadkw at UCL.AC.UK Tue Oct 3 15:52:35 2006 From: ucgadkw at UCL.AC.UK (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Tue, 03 Oct 06 16:52:35 +0100 Subject: Critical Edition of Bhagavata Purana In-Reply-To: <4521527A.8070506@helsinki.fi> Message-ID: <161227078359.23782.2730738832951458737.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Biblia Impex has been mentioned several times in this discussion. Many years ago, I used to use them. They are a dynamic company, and probably good booksellers. However, during a visit to their premises in Delhi some years ago, I was shocked to experience a conversation in which the senior staff of the company were expressing ideas of the most extreme Hindu fundamentalist type concerning Islam in India, Aryan Homeland theory, and so forth. The conversation was deeply unpleasant, and - on their side - very loud (shouting) and very angry. After that, I no longer used their services. Subsequently, I noticed that BI owns Aditya Prakashan, a press that publishes inflammatory revisionist works on Indian history and culture. The blurb on an Aditya Prakashan book by KS Lal, for example, says: "The present volume provides a thorough analysis as to what irreparable damage has been done to this country by the Muslim rule of a thousand years." (this is on Biblia Impex's website today). Another of Lal's volumes with Aditya Prakashan announces that: "Opening a new vista, what this work is about is contrary to modern-day make-believe, there is no evidence to show that the lower classes suffered from the tyranny of the Hindu upper classes in the medieval period. The case being exactly opposite, throughout the medieval period, the lower castes fought shoulder to shoulder with the upper castes against the foreign invaders and tyrannical rulers. Present study is only a beginning in this direction, based for the most part on medieval Muslim chronicles." It is Aditya Prakashan that publishes the works of Talageri and Rajaram, Konraad Elst, David Frawley, and others with concordant views. These are listed by Aditya P. under "Ancient Indian History". -- Dominik Wujastyk From Palaniappa at AOL.COM Tue Oct 3 21:27:43 2006 From: Palaniappa at AOL.COM (Sudalaimuthu Palaniappan) Date: Tue, 03 Oct 06 17:27:43 -0400 Subject: Kannada to be declared a classical language Message-ID: <161227078364.23782.5342268363521567076.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Dear Indologists, The following news story may be of interest to you. _http://www.hindu.com/2006/10/04/stories/2006100411010100.htm_ (http://www.hindu.com/2006/10/04/stories/2006100411010100.htm) Regards, S. Palaniappan From Palaniappa at AOL.COM Wed Oct 4 03:21:03 2006 From: Palaniappa at AOL.COM (Sudalaimuthu Palaniappan) Date: Tue, 03 Oct 06 23:21:03 -0400 Subject: Source of Brahminhood Message-ID: <161227078369.23782.16890914848325034629.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Dear Indologists, Can anybody tell me the source and date of the verse "mastsyagandhastu tanayo veda vyasa....tasmad jaatirna kaaranam" ? This verse is used by some to argue that according to Hindu tradition a Brahmin is indeed born through austerities and Brahminhood is not the result of physical birth. Thanks in advance. Regards, S. Palaniappan From swantam at ASIANETINDIA.COM Wed Oct 4 02:03:24 2006 From: swantam at ASIANETINDIA.COM (Maheswaran Nair) Date: Wed, 04 Oct 06 07:33:24 +0530 Subject: Critical Edition of Bhagavata Purana In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227078366.23782.16109354982346213831.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Hello, Let me tell you my experience.As I am leftist I find it very difficult to get due recognition in my field of Sanskrit, such is the state of affairs.All the profundamentalists who were posted at key positions in the field of Sanskrit during the last rule, still continue to be there.The official team which attended the Edinburgh WSC on the expense of the government also made it clear.(I participated in my own humble way). As regards obtaining such books as BP any personal help can be extended from my side, be sure. K.Maheswaran Nair Uiversity of Kerala Quoting Dominik Wujastyk : > Biblia Impex has been mentioned several times in this discussion. Many > years ago, I used to use them. They are a dynamic company, and > probably good booksellers. However, during a visit to their premises > in Delhi some years ago, I was shocked to experience a conversation in > which the senior staff of the company were expressing ideas of the most > extreme Hindu fundamentalist type concerning Islam in India, Aryan > Homeland theory, and so forth. The conversation was deeply unpleasant, > and - on their side - very loud (shouting) and very angry. After that, > I no longer used their services. > > Subsequently, I noticed that BI owns Aditya Prakashan, a press that > publishes inflammatory revisionist works on Indian history and culture. > The blurb on an Aditya Prakashan book by KS Lal, for example, says: > "The present volume provides a thorough analysis as to what irreparable > damage has been done to this country by the Muslim rule of a thousand > years." (this is on Biblia Impex's website today). > > Another of Lal's volumes with Aditya Prakashan announces that: > > "Opening a new vista, what this work is about is contrary to modern-day > make-believe, there is no evidence to show that the lower classes > suffered from the tyranny of the Hindu upper classes > in the medieval period. The case being exactly opposite, > throughout the medieval period, the lower > castes fought shoulder to shoulder with the upper castes against the > foreign invaders and tyrannical rulers. Present study is only a beginning > in this direction, based for the most part on medieval Muslim > chronicles." > > It is Aditya Prakashan that publishes the works of Talageri and > Rajaram, Konraad Elst, David Frawley, and others with concordant views. > These are listed by Aditya P. under "Ancient Indian History". > > -- > Dominik Wujastyk From sanjay.kumar at MAIL.MCGILL.CA Wed Oct 4 11:55:20 2006 From: sanjay.kumar at MAIL.MCGILL.CA (Sanjay Kumar) Date: Wed, 04 Oct 06 07:55:20 -0400 Subject: Source of Brahminhood Message-ID: <161227078380.23782.11189237949882286836.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> The verse you mentioned is perhaps from the Uttara-gita, published by the Bhandarkar Oriental Research Institute, Pune. The Critical Edition of the Mahabharata notes a conversation between Kr.s.n.a and Duryodhana in the star passage after 5.92.37, where Kr.s.n.a gives reasons for having meals at Vidura's house: kaivarti-garbha-sambhuto vyaso nama mahamunih. tapasa brahman.o jatas tasmaj jatir na karan.am. Sanjay Kumar McGill University ________________________________ From: Indology on behalf of Sudalaimuthu Palaniappan Sent: Tue 03/10/2006 11:21 PM To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Subject: Source of Brahminhood Dear Indologists, Can anybody tell me the source and date of the verse "mastsyagandhastu tanayo veda vyasa....tasmad jaatirna kaaranam" ? This verse is used by some to argue that according to Hindu tradition a Brahmin is indeed born through austerities and Brahminhood is not the result of physical birth. Thanks in advance. Regards, S. Palaniappan From bclough at AUCEGYPT.EDU Wed Oct 4 06:50:52 2006 From: bclough at AUCEGYPT.EDU (Bradley Clough) Date: Wed, 04 Oct 06 08:50:52 +0200 Subject: Job Announcement In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227078371.23782.12286404314279058479.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> I am forwarding this from Professor Jonathan Brockopp of Penn State University. Brad Clough The American University in Cairo THE PENNSYLVANIA STATE UNIVERSITY, Religious Studies Program, invites applications for a one-year position in Buddhism.? Primary area of expertise is open, but candidates with an active research agenda and strong record of effective teaching are preferred.? Ph.D. required at the time of the appointment (fall 2007). Applications received by November 1, 2006 will be assured of consideration; however, all applications will be accepted until the position is filled. Letter of application, curriculum vitae, and the names and addresses of three references should be sent to: Jonathan E. Brockopp, Search Committee, Religious Studies Program, 108 Weaver Building, Box? JB, Penn State University, University Park, PA 16802-5500. Penn State is committed to affirmative action, equal opportunity and the diversity of its workforce. From ucgadkw at UCL.AC.UK Wed Oct 4 09:31:15 2006 From: ucgadkw at UCL.AC.UK (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Wed, 04 Oct 06 10:31:15 +0100 Subject: Research Fellowship in Central Asian Medicin (fwd) Message-ID: <161227078376.23782.5210360404212772520.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Carole Reeves Date: Wed, 4 Oct 2006 08:38:01 +0100 Subject: FELLOWSHIP CENTRAL ASIAN MEDICINE The Wellcome Centre for the History of Medicine at UCL seeks applications for a three-year research fellowship on any field of the history of Central Asia and medicine. PhD or an equivalent research degree, and an active programme of research in Kazak and Uzbek, are required. Remuneration will be in the range from the low to mid-30,000 pounds sterling, depending on seniority. The fellowship may be taken up as early as January 2007. UCL will be offering language studies in Kazak and Uzbek, and hopes that it might be possible to raise funds for a longer term academic post. A letter of application, curriculum vita, and the names of three referees are due by post or email to Prof. Cook by 17 November 2006. For further information, please see www.ucl.ac.uk/histmed or contact the Director, Harold J. Cook, at h.cook at ucl.ac.uk or 210 Euston Rd., London NW1 2BE, UK. Harold J. Cook, Ph.D. FRCP (Hon.) Professor and Director Wellcome Trust Centre for the History of Medicine at University College London Dr Carole Reeves Outreach Historian The Wellcome Trust Centre for the History of Medicine at UCL 210 Euston Road London NW1 2BE Tel: +44 (0)207 679 8135 Email: c.reeves at ucl.ac.uk Website: www.ucl.ac.uk/histmed From kellera at PARIS7.JUSSIEU.FR Wed Oct 4 11:08:24 2006 From: kellera at PARIS7.JUSSIEU.FR (Agathe Keller) Date: Wed, 04 Oct 06 13:08:24 +0200 Subject: Reading group on Sanskrit Mathematical commmentaries in Paris Message-ID: <161227078378.23782.15888514460201754467.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Dear colleagues, You are all welcome to the reading group on Sanskrit mathematical commentairies, which will be carried out within the Rehseis seminar of History of Mathematics and the one on Science in Asia. Readings will be on GaGgAdhara?s commentary to the LilavatI and SuryadAsa?s commentary to the BijagaNita. The group will be conducted by F. Patte (Paris V university and EFEO, francois.patte at math-info.univ-paris5.fr), and will meet twice a month on wendsday afternoons. For more practical informations please contact F. Patte or A. Keller (kellera at paris7.jussieu.fr). yours, Agathe Keller Rehseis CNRS-Paris VII University From acharyadiwakar at HOTMAIL.COM Wed Oct 4 08:18:15 2006 From: acharyadiwakar at HOTMAIL.COM (diwakar acharya) Date: Wed, 04 Oct 06 17:18:15 +0900 Subject: new publication In-Reply-To: <4b8.51d52bdc.3254829f@aol.com> Message-ID: <161227078373.23782.12137738873745031101.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Dear List, This is to announce publication of my book: Vacaspatimisra?s Tattvasamiksa. The Earliest Commentary on Mandanamisra?s Brahmasiddhi. Critically Edited with an Introduction and Critical Notes. [Nepal Research Centre Publication Series 25.] Stuttgart: Franz Steiner Verlag 2006. cxxvi + 398 pp. ISBN 978-3-515-08886-2 Best regards, Diwakar ================ Diwakar Acharya Graduate School of Letters Kyoto University Yoshida Honmachi, Sakyo-ku Kyoto 606-8501, Japan Tel.: +81 75 753 2803 From steiner at MAILER.UNI-MARBURG.DE Thu Oct 5 07:33:20 2006 From: steiner at MAILER.UNI-MARBURG.DE (Roland Steiner) Date: Thu, 05 Oct 06 09:33:20 +0200 Subject: Publication Announcement In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227078383.23782.4725192208249017767.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Just released: Martin Straube: Prinz Sudhana und die Kinnarii. Eine buddhistische Liebesgeschichte von K.semendra. Texte, ?bersetzung, Studie. Marburg: Indica et Tibetica Verlag 2006. (Indica et Tibetica 46). xiv, 269 pp. ISBN 3-923776-47-0. The book provides a critical edition of both the Sanskrit text and the Tibetan translation of K.semendra's Sudhanakinnaryavaadana (chapter 64 of his Bodhisattvaavadaanakalpalataa) together with a German translation, further a study of the different versions of that story, and a thorough analysis of the textual transmission of K.semendra's text. For a detailed summary of the book and the table of contents cf. the author's homepage: http://www.staff.uni-marburg.de/~straubem/ma-thesis.html Orders: http://www.iet-verlag.de/ Roland Steiner -- Dr. Roland Steiner Fachgebiet Indologie und Tibetologie FB 10 der Philipps-Universitaet Wilhelm-Roepke-Strasse 6 D-35032 Marburg (Briefanschrift / for letters) D-35039 Marburg (Paketanschrift / for parcels) Germany (Note: The German umlaut vowels have been substituted above by "ae" and "oe") Tel.: +49-6421-28-22184; Fax: +49-6421-28-24995 E-Mail: steiner at staff.uni-marburg.de From cln at SAS.UPENN.EDU Thu Oct 5 18:50:13 2006 From: cln at SAS.UPENN.EDU (Christian Lee Novetzke) Date: Thu, 05 Oct 06 14:50:13 -0400 Subject: Buddhism and Indian Philosophy Position at Penn In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227078386.23782.6176825443632173183.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> The Department of Religious Studies at the University of Pennsylvania invites applications for an open-rank, tenured or tenure-track post in South Asian religions. Preference will be given to candidates with expertise in Indian philosophical traditions and Buddhism in their historical and doctrinal contexts. Necessary qualifications include knowledge of Sanskrit and Pali, and the ability to instruct graduate students who are using these languages in their research.? Demonstrated skill in undergraduate teaching is essential. PhD in hand is desirable. Please send a c.v. and cover letter to: Stephen Dunning, Professor and Chair / Department of Religious Studies / Logan Hall / 249 S. 36th Street / University of Pennsylvania / Philadelphia, PA 19104-6304. Candidates for a tenure track position should also arrange for 3 letters of recommendation to be sent to the same address. Senior faculty need not submit letters at this point. Applications will begin to be reviewed in early November. The University of Pennsylvania is an equal opportunity/affirmative action employer. Women and minority candidates are encouraged to apply. Christian Lee Novetzke Assistant Professor, South Asia Studies University of Pennsylvania www.sas.upenn.edu/~cln From Palaniappa at AOL.COM Thu Oct 5 23:38:06 2006 From: Palaniappa at AOL.COM (Sudalaimuthu Palaniappan) Date: Thu, 05 Oct 06 19:38:06 -0400 Subject: Source of Brahminhood Message-ID: <161227078388.23782.15370433747661021154.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> I have found an almost identical verse in vajrasuuci (23) kaivartiigarbhasambhuuto vyaaso naama mahaamuni.h| tapasaa braahma.no jaatastasmaajjaatirakaara.nam||23|| (See _http://www.uwest.edu/sanskritcanon/Sastra/Roman/sastra20.html_ (http://www.uwest.edu/sanskritcanon/Sastra/Roman/sastra20.html) ) Is the presence of such verses in the Hindu texts to be attributed to interpolation due to the influence of Buddhism/Jainism? Thanks in advance. Regards, S. Palaniappan In a message dated 10/4/2006 6:56:03 A.M. Central Standard Time, sanjay.kumar at MAIL.MCGILL.CA writes: The verse you mentioned is perhaps from the Uttara-gita, published by the Bhandarkar Oriental Research Institute, Pune. The Critical Edition of the Mahabharata notes a conversation between Kr.s.n.a and Duryodhana in the star passage after 5.92.37, where Kr.s.n.a gives reasons for having meals at Vidura's house: kaivarti-garbha-sambhuto vyaso nama mahamunih. tapasa brahman.o jatas tasmaj jatir na karan.am. Sanjay Kumar McGill University ________________________________ From: Indology on behalf of Sudalaimuthu Palaniappan Sent: Tue 03/10/2006 11:21 PM To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Subject: Source of Brahminhood Dear Indologists, Can anybody tell me the source and date of the verse "mastsyagandhastu tanayo veda vyasa....tasmad jaatirna kaaranam" ? This verse is used by some to argue that according to Hindu tradition a Brahmin is indeed born through austerities and Brahminhood is not the result of physical birth. Thanks in advance. Regards, S. Palaniappan From jpo at UTS.CC.UTEXAS.EDU Fri Oct 6 01:24:57 2006 From: jpo at UTS.CC.UTEXAS.EDU (Patrick Olivelle) Date: Thu, 05 Oct 06 20:24:57 -0500 Subject: Source of Brahminhood In-Reply-To: <4d2.7dc16df.3256f15e@aol.com> Message-ID: <161227078391.23782.14767578377222459646.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Palaniappan and all: the Vajrasuuci is actually a Buddhist polemical text ascribed to Asvaghosa, but probably much later, perhaps in the 6th century. So, this is not a Brahmanical position, but a Buddhist satirical comment on the so-called purity of Brahmins by showing that even Vyaasa had a problematic parentage. > >I have found an almost identical verse in vajrasuuci (23) > >kaivartiigarbhasambhuuto vyaaso naama mahaamuni.h| >tapasaa braahma.no jaatastasmaajjaatirakaara.nam||23|| >(See _http://www.uwest.edu/sanskritcanon/Sastra/Roman/sastra20.html_ >(http://www.uwest.edu/sanskritcanon/Sastra/Roman/sastra20.html) ) > >Is the presence of such verses in the Hindu texts to be attributed to >interpolation due to the influence of Buddhism/Jainism? > >Thanks in advance. > >Regards, >S. Palaniappan > >In a message dated 10/4/2006 6:56:03 A.M. Central Standard Time, >sanjay.kumar at MAIL.MCGILL.CA writes: > >The verse you mentioned is perhaps from the Uttara-gita, published by the >Bhandarkar Oriental Research Institute, Pune. The Critical Edition of the >Mahabharata notes a conversation between Kr.s.n.a and Duryodhana in the star >passage after 5.92.37, where Kr.s.n.a gives reasons for having meals >at Vidura's >house: > >kaivarti-garbha-sambhuto vyaso nama mahamunih. tapasa brahman.o jatas tasmaj >jatir na karan.am. > > > >Sanjay Kumar > >McGill University > > > >________________________________ > >From: Indology on behalf of Sudalaimuthu Palaniappan >Sent: Tue 03/10/2006 11:21 PM >To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk >Subject: Source of Brahminhood > > > >Dear Indologists, > >Can anybody tell me the source and date of the verse "mastsyagandhastu >tanayo veda vyasa....tasmad jaatirna kaaranam" ? This verse is used by >some to >argue that according to Hindu tradition a Brahmin is indeed born through >austerities and Brahminhood is not the result of physical birth. > >Thanks in advance. > >Regards, >S. Palaniappan > > > From mmdesh at UMICH.EDU Fri Oct 6 01:44:22 2006 From: mmdesh at UMICH.EDU (Deshpande, Madhav) Date: Thu, 05 Oct 06 21:44:22 -0400 Subject: Source of Brahminhood Message-ID: <161227078394.23782.17696064876381966934.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> While the Vajrasuci is a Buddhist text and wants to convey a message that birth is not a determining factor, the texts it cites have their own originally different approaches. Notes and parralel passages provided in the edition of Vajrasuci by Sujitkumar Mukhopadhyaya (Santiniketan 1960, 2nd edn, p. 38) finds many such passages in BhaviSyapurANa and other Brahmanical texts. There is a seeming a divergence of opinion between purely Dharmasastric opinions on progeny of mixed marriages and these Puranic passages claiming "tapasA brahmaNo jAtaH". As I have pointed out in my article in the JIES, however, this difference disappears when one realizes that in all these cases of RSis born from mixed unions, not only with non-Brahmin women but also with female animals, the fathers are always Brahmin males, and this fits with the ancient notions of the identity of the child going by the "seed" (bIja) rather than by the "field" (kSetra), and this is fully in accord with the Dharmasastric opinion of Manu: jAto nAryAm anAryAyAm AryAd Aryo bhaved guNaiH / anAryAj jAta AryAyAm anArya iti nizcayaH // "A person born from an Arya man in an an-Arya woman may become Arya by his virtues, but a person born in an Arya woman from an an-Arya man is clearly an an-Aryan, this is the determination." I don't have a copy of Manu at hand, but I have cited this verse with its textual reference in my article. Madhav -----Original Message----- From: Indology on behalf of Patrick Olivelle Sent: Thu 10/5/2006 9:24 PM To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Subject: Re: Source of Brahminhood Palaniappan and all: the Vajrasuuci is actually a Buddhist polemical text ascribed to Asvaghosa, but probably much later, perhaps in the 6th century. So, this is not a Brahmanical position, but a Buddhist satirical comment on the so-called purity of Brahmins by showing that even Vyaasa had a problematic parentage. > >I have found an almost identical verse in vajrasuuci (23) > >kaivartiigarbhasambhuuto vyaaso naama mahaamuni.h| >tapasaa braahma.no jaatastasmaajjaatirakaara.nam||23|| >(See _http://www.uwest.edu/sanskritcanon/Sastra/Roman/sastra20.html_ >(http://www.uwest.edu/sanskritcanon/Sastra/Roman/sastra20.html) ) > >Is the presence of such verses in the Hindu texts to be attributed to >interpolation due to the influence of Buddhism/Jainism? > >Thanks in advance. > >Regards, >S. Palaniappan > >In a message dated 10/4/2006 6:56:03 A.M. Central Standard Time, >sanjay.kumar at MAIL.MCGILL.CA writes: > >The verse you mentioned is perhaps from the Uttara-gita, published by the >Bhandarkar Oriental Research Institute, Pune. The Critical Edition of the >Mahabharata notes a conversation between Kr.s.n.a and Duryodhana in the star >passage after 5.92.37, where Kr.s.n.a gives reasons for having meals >at Vidura's >house: > >kaivarti-garbha-sambhuto vyaso nama mahamunih. tapasa brahman.o jatas tasmaj >jatir na karan.am. > > > >Sanjay Kumar > >McGill University > > > >________________________________ > >From: Indology on behalf of Sudalaimuthu Palaniappan >Sent: Tue 03/10/2006 11:21 PM >To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk >Subject: Source of Brahminhood > > > >Dear Indologists, > >Can anybody tell me the source and date of the verse "mastsyagandhastu >tanayo veda vyasa....tasmad jaatirna kaaranam" ? This verse is used by >some to >argue that according to Hindu tradition a Brahmin is indeed born through >austerities and Brahminhood is not the result of physical birth. > >Thanks in advance. > >Regards, >S. Palaniappan > > > From Palaniappa at AOL.COM Fri Oct 6 22:35:18 2006 From: Palaniappa at AOL.COM (Sudalaimuthu Palaniappan) Date: Fri, 06 Oct 06 18:35:18 -0400 Subject: Source of Brahminhood Message-ID: <161227078396.23782.11086277219710693685.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> In fact, my question is based on the JIES article as well as Sanjay Kumar's information that the Critical Edition of the Mahabharata rejects as interpolation a verse almost identical to the one in the Vajrasuuci. Given the parallel passages in Brahmanical texts and Vajrasuuci, has anybody analyzed whether the verses in the Buddhist polemical text could have inspired or led to the interpolation of similar passages in the Brahmanical texts, as in the case of the Mahabharata? In other words, is it possible that an element of Buddhist polemic is ironically grafted on to Brahmanic texts to be the basis for reconciling the later Dharmasastraic views regarding mixed descent with the Brahminhood of .r.sis of mixed descent (which was originally based on the 'seed' and 'field' concept)? Was this one of the ways Brahmins responded to the challenge posed by Buddhism as suggested by P. Lakshmi Narasu, the author of "The Essentials of Buddhism" (1912) and "A Study of Caste" (1922)? A related question is whether there are any such Brahmanic passages clearly datable prior to Vajrasuuci. By the way, the Tamil Buddhist epic, the Ma.nimeekalai (ca. 6th century AD), also has a polemical passage wherein the births of .r.sis of mixed descent are satirically discussed. Thanks. Regards, S. Palaniappan In a message dated 10/5/2006 8:45:04 P.M. Central Standard Time, mmdesh at UMICH.EDU writes: While the Vajrasuci is a Buddhist text and wants to convey a message that birth is not a determining factor, the texts it cites have their own originally different approaches. Notes and parralel passages provided in the edition of Vajrasuci by Sujitkumar Mukhopadhyaya (Santiniketan 1960, 2nd edn, p. 38) finds many such passages in BhaviSyapurANa and other Brahmanical texts. There is a seeming a divergence of opinion between purely Dharmasastric opinions on progeny of mixed marriages and these Puranic passages claiming "tapasA brahmaNo jAtaH". As I have pointed out in my article in the JIES, however, this difference disappears when one realizes that in all these cases of RSis born from mixed unions, not only with non-Brahmin women but also with female animals, the fathers are always Brahmin males, and this fits with the ancient notions of the identity of the child going by the "seed" (bIja) rather than by the "field" (kSetra), and this is fully in accord with the Dharmasastric opinion of Manu: jAto nAryAm anAryAyAm AryAd Aryo bhaved guNaiH / anAryAj jAta AryAyAm anArya iti nizcayaH // "A person born from an Arya man in an an-Arya woman may become Arya by his virtues, but a person born in an Arya woman from an an-Arya man is clearly an an-Aryan, this is the determination." I don't have a copy of Manu at hand, but I have cited this verse with its textual reference in my article. Madhav -----Original Message----- From: Indology on behalf of Patrick Olivelle Sent: Thu 10/5/2006 9:24 PM To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Subject: Re: Source of Brahminhood Palaniappan and all: the Vajrasuuci is actually a Buddhist polemical text ascribed to Asvaghosa, but probably much later, perhaps in the 6th century. So, this is not a Brahmanical position, but a Buddhist satirical comment on the so-called purity of Brahmins by showing that even Vyaasa had a problematic parentage. > >I have found an almost identical verse in vajrasuuci (23) > >kaivartiigarbhasambhuuto vyaaso naama mahaamuni.h| >tapasaa braahma.no jaatastasmaajjaatirakaara.nam||23|| >(See _http://www.uwest.edu/sanskritcanon/Sastra/Roman/sastra20.html_ >(http://www.uwest.edu/sanskritcanon/Sastra/Roman/sastra20.html) ) > >Is the presence of such verses in the Hindu texts to be attributed to >interpolation due to the influence of Buddhism/Jainism? > >Thanks in advance. > >Regards, >S. Palaniappan > >In a message dated 10/4/2006 6:56:03 A.M. Central Standard Time, >sanjay.kumar at MAIL.MCGILL.CA writes: > >The verse you mentioned is perhaps from the Uttara-gita, published by the >Bhandarkar Oriental Research Institute, Pune. The Critical Edition of the >Mahabharata notes a conversation between Kr.s.n.a and Duryodhana in the star >passage after 5.92.37, where Kr.s.n.a gives reasons for having meals >at Vidura's >house: > >kaivarti-garbha-sambhuto vyaso nama mahamunih. tapasa brahman.o jatas tasmaj >jatir na karan.am. > > > >Sanjay Kumar > >McGill University From wedemeyer at UCHICAGO.EDU Sat Oct 7 02:00:41 2006 From: wedemeyer at UCHICAGO.EDU (Christian K. Wedemeyer) Date: Fri, 06 Oct 06 21:00:41 -0500 Subject: Critical Edition of Bhagavata Purana Message-ID: <161227078398.23782.8525029601643106426.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> >You might try contacting the Ames Library at U Minnesota to see if >they have it, or to ask how to get in touch with the MS University >in Baroda's Oriental Inst. >From the Ames site: >Maharaja Sayajirao University of Baroda >http://www.msub.edu [these links get 404s] Just for reference, the current url of MSU is: http://www.msubaroda.ac.in/ That of the Oriental Institute is: http://www.msubaroda.ac.in/oriental/Ori_site/Ori/Oriental.htm -- Christian K. Wedemeyer Assistant Professor of the History of Religions The University of Chicago Divinity School 1025 East 58th Street Chicago, Illinois 60637 USA From acollins at GCI.NET Mon Oct 9 04:20:38 2006 From: acollins at GCI.NET (Alfred Collins) Date: Sun, 08 Oct 06 20:20:38 -0800 Subject: source for Devi chants on CD Message-ID: <161227078402.23782.9446167644829036883.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> I am looking for South Indian, esp. Keralan, Devi/Bhagavati temple music on CD. A good mail order source, preferably with a web site. Al Collins, Anchorage From wedemeyer at UCHICAGO.EDU Mon Oct 9 02:37:14 2006 From: wedemeyer at UCHICAGO.EDU (Christian K. Wedemeyer) Date: Sun, 08 Oct 06 21:37:14 -0500 Subject: Sanskrit position at Chicago Message-ID: <161227078400.23782.16931669846124443718.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> The Department of South Asian Languages and Civilizations, University of Chicago, invites applications for an open-rank position in Sanskrit. Teaching duties are four courses per year, distributed over three quarters (autumn, winter, spring). Among the four courses taught, one must be offered in an undergraduate College Core sequence. The remaining three will include Sanskrit language classes on all levels, as well as individually-devised graduate seminars. Applications (cover letter, c.v., representative publications, and three letters of support) will be reviewed beginning November 15, 2006. The appointment is expected to start on July 1 2007. They should be sent to: Steven Collins, Chair Department of South Asian Languages and Civilizations University of Chicago Foster Hall 1130 E. 59th Street Chicago IL 60637-1543 U.S.A. 773-702-9131 (8373 Dept. office) fax: 773-834-3254 s-collins at uchicago.edu The University of Chicago is an Affirmative Action/Equal Opportunity Employer -- Christian K. Wedemeyer Assistant Professor of the History of Religions The University of Chicago Divinity School 1025 East 58th Street Chicago, Illinois 60637 USA (773) 702-8265 (phone) (773) 702-8223 (fax) From Martin.Gansten at TEOL.LU.SE Mon Oct 9 05:55:50 2006 From: Martin.Gansten at TEOL.LU.SE (Martin Gansten) Date: Mon, 09 Oct 06 07:55:50 +0200 Subject: source for Devi chants on CD In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227078404.23782.9333388209600714682.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> >?From personal experience I would recommend: https://celextel.com/ The site lists 40 titles in the Devi CD section, mostly Lalita. Martin Gansten From slaje at T-ONLINE.DE Tue Oct 10 07:25:00 2006 From: slaje at T-ONLINE.DE (Walter Slaje) Date: Tue, 10 Oct 06 07:25:00 +0000 Subject: Is there an online YogaVasishta?/Verse in Vasistha's text Message-ID: <161227078411.23782.4351606538055372746.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Dear Jenni Cover, this is YV VI(a) 83, 13 / Laghu-YV VI 9, 35. Instead of "kevalam", as your your quotation has it, LYV reads: "kevalaa", YV: "raaghava". There are (paada)-indexes and concordances for both the YV and the LYV, meritoriously prepared by Peter Thomi: - B.rhad-Yogavaasi.s.tha. Paada-Index. Wichtrach 1990. - Laghu-Yogavaasi.s.tha: Paada-Index. Wichtrach. 1991. - Yogavaasi.s.tha Konkordanz. B.rhadyogavaasi.s.tha -- Laghuyogavaasi.s.tha. Wichtrach 1985. Best, Walter Slaje --------------------------------- Prof Dr Walter Slaje Hermann-Loens-Str. 1 D-99425 Weimar (Germany) Tel/Fax: +49-(0)3643 501391 www.indologie.uni-halle.de Ego ex animi mei sententia spondeo ac polliceor me studia humanitatis impigro labore culturum et provecturum non sordidi lucri causa nec ad vanam captandam gloriam, sed quo magis veritas propagetur et lux eius, qua salus humani generis continetur, clarius effulgeat. Vindobonae, die XXI. mensis Novembris MCMLXXXIII. From gruenen at MAIL.SUB.UNI-GOETTINGEN.DE Tue Oct 10 06:47:06 2006 From: gruenen at MAIL.SUB.UNI-GOETTINGEN.DE (gruenendahl) Date: Tue, 10 Oct 06 08:47:06 +0200 Subject: Is there an online YogaVasishta?/Verse in Vasistha's text In-Reply-To: <012901c6ec0c$2589d330$b380000a@ad.urnet.com.au> Message-ID: <161227078409.23782.12176676369284844472.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Dear colleague, GRETIL has the Moksopaya [="Yogavasistha"] with Bhaskarakantha's Tika in an e-text provided by Walter Slaje: www.sub.uni-goettingen.de/ebene_1/fiindolo/gret_utf.htm#MoTik (when there, choose the appropriate encoding, probably Unicode/UTF-8). However, I could not find the quoted verse. You can contact members of the Moksopaya Project via the homepage of the Seminar fuer Indologie at Halle University: www.indologie.uni-halle.de Homepage of the Moksopaya project: adwm.indologie.uni-halle.de/projekte.htm Regards Reinhold Gr?nendahl ******************************************************************** Dr. Reinhold Gruenendahl Niedersaechsische Staats- und Universitaetsbibliothek Fachreferat sued- und suedostasiatische Philologien (Dept. of Indology) 37070 G?ttingen, Germany Tel (+49) (0)5 51 / 39 52 83 Fax (+49) (0)5 51 / 39 23 61 gruenen at mail.sub.uni-goettingen.de FACH-INFORMATIONEN INDOLOGIE, GOETTINGEN: http://www.sub.uni-goettingen.de/ebene_1/fiindolo/fiindolo.htm In English: http://www.sub.uni-goettingen.de/ebene_1/fiindolo/fiindole.htm GRETIL - Goettingen Register of Electronic Texts in Indian Languages http://www.sub.uni-goettingen.de/ebene_1/fiindolo/gretil.htm From jenni.cover at URNET.COM.AU Tue Oct 10 01:33:51 2006 From: jenni.cover at URNET.COM.AU (Jenni Cover) Date: Tue, 10 Oct 06 11:33:51 +1000 Subject: Is there an online YogaVasishta?/Verse in Vasistha's text In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20060525085308.00bea420@pop.lu.se> Message-ID: <161227078406.23782.15232088079332818765.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Greetings, I am wondering if there is a searchable online YogaV?si??ha. In particular I need the reference for this verse attributed to a text by V?si??ha. ?????????? ??? ??????????????????? ? ??????????? ????? ?????? ????????????? ?????? ? upade?akramo r?ma vyavasth?m?trap?lanam | j?aptestu k?ra?a? ?uddh? ?i?yapraj?aiva kevalam || Does anyone know if this verse is from the YogaV?si??ha? I would be grateful for any help. Thankyou, Jenni Cover PhD Student University of Sydney Australia From nlpdept at YAHOO.CO.IN Tue Oct 10 12:36:52 2006 From: nlpdept at YAHOO.CO.IN (Srinivasa Varakhedi) Date: Tue, 10 Oct 06 13:36:52 +0100 Subject: Critical Edition of Bhagavata Purana In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227078417.23782.10376089906757931454.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> A complete critical edition of Bhagavatam (south Indian Vaishva Paatha) is available at Poornaprajna Samshodhana mandiram, P.P.Vidyapeetha, Bangalore 28. "ppsmb" , "PPSM Bangalore" , You may contact the Director, Dr.A.V.nagasampige. regards, shri "Christian K. Wedemeyer" wrote: >You might try contacting the Ames Library at U Minnesota to see if >they have it, or to ask how to get in touch with the MS University >in Baroda's Oriental Inst. >From the Ames site: >Maharaja Sayajirao University of Baroda >http://www.msub.edu [these links get 404s] Just for reference, the current url of MSU is: http://www.msubaroda.ac.in/ That of the Oriental Institute is: http://www.msubaroda.ac.in/oriental/Ori_site/Ori/Oriental.htm -- Christian K. Wedemeyer Assistant Professor of the History of Religions The University of Chicago Divinity School 1025 East 58th Street Chicago, Illinois 60637 USA --------------------------------- Find out what India is talking about on - Yahoo! Answers India Send FREE SMS to your friend's mobile from Yahoo! Messenger Version 8. Get it NOW From jenni.cover at URNET.COM.AU Tue Oct 10 11:45:25 2006 From: jenni.cover at URNET.COM.AU (Jenni Cover) Date: Tue, 10 Oct 06 21:45:25 +1000 Subject: Is there an online YogaVasishta?/Verse in Vasistha's text In-Reply-To: <1GXBzm-0KolZQ0@fwd29.sul.t-online.de> Message-ID: <161227078413.23782.14904646916406143117.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Dear Walter, Thank you so much - this is a great help. Thanks also to Reinhold. Warm wishes, Jenni -----Original Message----- From: Indology [mailto:INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Walter Slaje Sent: Tuesday, 10 October 2006 5:25 PM To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Subject: Re: Is there an online YogaVasishta?/Verse in Vasistha's text Dear Jenni Cover, this is YV VI(a) 83, 13 / Laghu-YV VI 9, 35. Instead of "kevalam", as your your quotation has it, LYV reads: "kevalaa", YV: "raaghava". There are (paada)-indexes and concordances for both the YV and the LYV, meritoriously prepared by Peter Thomi: - B.rhad-Yogavaasi.s.tha. Paada-Index. Wichtrach 1990. - Laghu-Yogavaasi.s.tha: Paada-Index. Wichtrach. 1991. - Yogavaasi.s.tha Konkordanz. B.rhadyogavaasi.s.tha -- Laghuyogavaasi.s.tha. Wichtrach 1985. Best, Walter Slaje --------------------------------- Prof Dr Walter Slaje Hermann-Loens-Str. 1 D-99425 Weimar (Germany) Tel/Fax: +49-(0)3643 501391 www.indologie.uni-halle.de Ego ex animi mei sententia spondeo ac polliceor me studia humanitatis impigro labore culturum et provecturum non sordidi lucri causa nec ad vanam captandam gloriam, sed quo magis veritas propagetur et lux eius, qua salus humani generis continetur, clarius effulgeat. Vindobonae, die XXI. mensis Novembris MCMLXXXIII. From jenni.cover at URNET.COM.AU Tue Oct 10 11:45:43 2006 From: jenni.cover at URNET.COM.AU (Jenni Cover) Date: Tue, 10 Oct 06 21:45:43 +1000 Subject: Colophon Date In-Reply-To: <452B5E09.23026.207718@mail.sub.uni-goettingen.de> Message-ID: <161227078415.23782.8191182731926679693.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Greetings, I am wondering if anyone can help me ascertain if a manuscript colophon date is valid. My knowledge of Indian dates is very limited. The list of the sixty year names I have is Prabhav, Vibhav, Shukla, Paramoda, Prajapati, Angira, Shrimukha, Bhava, Yuva, Dhatu, Ishwar, Bahudanya, Pramathi, Vikrama, Vrisha, Chitrabhanu, Subhanu, Taran, Prartiva, Vyaya, Sarvajit, Sarvadhari, Virodhi, Vikriti, Khara, Nandana, Vijaya, Jaya, Marmath, Durmikha, Hemalambi, Vilambi, Vikari, Sharvar, Plava, Shubakrit, Shobhana, Krodhi, Vishvavasu, Parabhava, Plavanga, Kilaka, Saumya, Sadharana, Virodhikrita, Paridhavi, Pramadi, Ananda, Rakshasa, Nala, Pingala. Kalayukta, Sitdharti, Raudri, Durmati, Dundubhi, Rudhirodgari, Raktakshi, Krodhana, and Akshaya. There are 4 manuscripts where the ?aka date given matches the name of the year. These are: ?ake 1711 saumya n?ma sa?vatsare ?ake 1731 ?uklan?ma sa?vatsare ?ake 1754 nandanan?masa?vatsare ?ake 1817 manmathasa?vatsare Another manuscript however, according to my limited knowledge, doesn't match. It is hard to read, so some of the letters may not be correct. ?ake 1626 vik?tin?masa?vatsare akh??ham?sesittapak?eda?amy?y??ca?drav?sare According to my list saumya is number 43, so ?ake 1626 would be number 18, which is taran, or t?rana, (not vikriti). Am I missing something here? If the year and year-name don't match does that mean that the date is unreliable? (The 6 in 1626 is written differently from the other 6 ? which is what made me suspicious in the first place). Thankyou, Jenni Cover PhD Student University of Sydney Australia From srangan at YORKU.CA Wed Oct 11 20:30:01 2006 From: srangan at YORKU.CA (Shyam Ranganathan) Date: Wed, 11 Oct 06 16:30:01 -0400 Subject: Indian epistemic terms Message-ID: <161227078419.23782.16145762397610550846.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Dear Indologists I'm interested in a survey of technical and nontechnical epistemic terms employed in Indian philosophical literature. My rather informal impression is that the Indian tradition has made an art of discussing epistemology that makes the standard analytic "S knows that P" talk look rather dry. Specifically I am interested in: (a) whether there is any secondary material that has surveyed this issue and produced some type of list of terms employed in such discussions, and (b) whether there are standard cross-theoretic terms (perhaps "pramana" and "jnana") that are used in most all traditions in epistemic discussions, or whether the majority of the discourse is really technical and only accessible to those who are experts in the relevant darsana. Thanks in advance Shyam Ranganathan PhD Candidate Department of Philosophy York University (Toronto) From silk at HUMNET.UCLA.EDU Thu Oct 12 00:00:50 2006 From: silk at HUMNET.UCLA.EDU (Jonathan Silk) Date: Wed, 11 Oct 06 17:00:50 -0700 Subject: a propos epistemic terms Message-ID: <161227078426.23782.13226611245199070587.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> I take the liberty of forwarding a recent post from H-Buddhism which may provide a quick bibliography of some interest to the poster who asked about epistemic terms. > >From: Dan Arnold >Subject: QUERY>Buddhist Epistemology for >philosophy graduate students (Whitaker) >Date: October 2, 2006 > > >Justin Whitaker wrote: > >"My searches thus far have turned up excellent >works on Buddhist Epistemology, mostly centered >on Dignaaga and Dharmakiirti, but these papers >and books are placed within either the context >of the history of Buddhism or of Indian >philosophy. Those that addressed Western >philosophical notions mentioned thinkers ranging >from Plato to Merleau-Ponty, but I have found >nothing addressing the works and ideas of >contemporary epistemology (Analytic thinkers >such as Jaegwon Kim, Earnest Sosa, Edmund >Gettier, John Greco, et al.)." > >In fact, there's a great deal of contemporary >scholarship concerning Buddhist philosophy that >is very much informed by work in contemporary >logic and epistemology. The scholar whose work >is perhaps most squarely pitched at the audience >of analytic philosophers is Mark Siderits, just >about any of whose works might fit the bill for >what you have in mind. His recent book _Personal >Identity and Buddhist Philosophy: Empty Persons_ >(Ashgate, 2003), while not chiefly concerned >with epistemology (it considers various Buddhist >contributions to the project of reductionism, >all of them framed vis-?-vis realist and >anti-realist conceptions of truth), is a tour de >force with regard to the project of >reconstructing Buddhist thought in the idiom of >analytic philosophy. As such, that would surely >be a good place to start. > >Among the many articles by Siderits that might >be more precisely addressed to the particular >issues raised in Justin Whitaker's query, >consider the following: > >"The Madhyamaka Critique of Epistemology," parts >I and II, Journal of Indian Philosophy 8 (1980): >307-335 and 9 (1981): 121-160. > >"Perceiving Particulars: A Buddhist Defense," >Philosophy East & West 54/3 (2004): 367-382. > >"Inductive, Deductive, Both or Neither?" Journal >of Indian Philosophy 31 (2003): 303-321. > >In addition, his earlier book (_Indian >Philosophy of Language: Studies in Selected >Issues_ [Kluwer, 1991]) may hold some interest. > >In addition to Siderits, significant work in >Buddhist studies that's informed by contemporary >philosophy surely includes that of Jay Garfield, >whose primary training is in analytic >philosophy. Especially useful might be his >"Epoche and Sunyata: Scepticism East and West," >Philosophy East & West 40/3 (1990): 285-308. But >consider also his translation and interpretation >of Nagarjuna's major work (_The Fundamental >Wisdom of the Middle Way_, Oxford, 1995), and >also his _Empty Words: Buddhist Philosophy and >Cross-Cultural Interpretation_ (Oxford, 2002), >which collects many of his articles. > >Studies in the epistemological tradition of >Dharmakirti include significant contributions >from Georges Dreyfus and Tom Tillemans, both of >whom make illuminating reference to, inter alia, >Wilfrid Sellars in elaborating the Buddhist >positions. Surely there would be much useful >stuff for your purposes in Dreyfus's >_Recognizing Reality: Dharmakirti's Philosophy >and its Tibetan Interpretations_ (SUNY, 1997), >which is very much more informed by work in >Anglo-American philosophy than by, e.g., Plato >or Merelau-Ponty. And Tom Tillemans's >_Scripture, Logic, Language: Essays on >Dharmakirti and His Tibetan Successors_ (Wisdom, >1999) may have some articles that serve your >purposes. > >Finally, it would be remiss not to refer to the >work of one of the thinkers whose work most >significantly opened the way for conversation >between the classical Indian and contemporary >Anglo-American traditions of philosophy: B. K. >Matilal, any of whose works could profitably be >consulted for this (and by whom was started the >Journal of Indian Philosophy, the constitutive >mission of which was to advance precisely the >dialogue that Whitaker has in mind). See >especially his _Perception: An Essay on >Classical Indian Theories of Knowledge_ >(Oxford/Clarendon, 1986). Matilal's main >successor is probably Jonardon Ganeri, whose >work carries on something much like Matilal's >project in conversation with more recent >thinkers; see, e.g., his _Philosophy in >Classical India: The Proper Work of Reason_ >(Routledge, 2001), which, like Siderits's work, >is pitched squarely at the audience of analytic >philosophers. > >I hope something of the above makes for a useful >starting point in the conversations you have in >mind. > >Best, >Dan Arnold > >**** > >Dan Arnold >Assistant Professor in the Divinity School >University of Chicago >1025 E. 58th Street >Chicago, IL 60637 > >Phone: 773-702-8276 >Fax: 773-702-8223 >http://home.uchicago.edu/~daarnold > > >"It's not things, it's philosophers that are simple." --J. L. Austin -- Jonathan Silk Department of Asian Languages & Cultures Center for Buddhist Studies UCLA 290 Royce Hall Box 951540 Los Angeles, CA 90095-1540 phone: (310) 206-8235 fax: (310) 825-8808 silk (at) humnet.ucla.edu From mmdesh at UMICH.EDU Wed Oct 11 23:36:05 2006 From: mmdesh at UMICH.EDU (Deshpande, Madhav) Date: Wed, 11 Oct 06 19:36:05 -0400 Subject: Indian epistemic terms Message-ID: <161227078424.23782.5156517876809715340.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Dear Harsha, 'pazya' and 'dRz' have a suppletive relationship in Sanskrit like'go' and 'went' in English. Both 'pazya' and 'dRz' taken separately have incomplete paradigms, but in the actual usage of the language, these two roots complement each other. So the passive form corresponding to pazyati is dRzyate, and so on. The Rgvedic passage uta tvaH pazyan na dadarza vAcam uta tvaH zRNvan na zRNoty enAm exhibits this suppletive behavior. Madhav M. Deshpande -----Original Message----- From: Indology on behalf of Harsha Dehejia Sent: Wed 10/11/2006 5:08 PM To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Subject: Re: Indian epistemic terms Friends: An important concept that is overlooked by epistemologists is that of DRISHTI or visual knowledge. While PASHYATI is a verb there is no verb like DRASHYATI. This is the beginning of an inquiry into visual knowledge. I am trying to develop this concept further. Regareds. Harsha Harsha V. Dehejia Professor of Indian Studies, College of Humanities Carleton University, Ottawa, ON. Canada. From harshadehejia at HOTMAIL.COM Wed Oct 11 21:08:58 2006 From: harshadehejia at HOTMAIL.COM (Harsha Dehejia) Date: Wed, 11 Oct 06 21:08:58 +0000 Subject: Indian epistemic terms In-Reply-To: <1160598601.452d5449c209f@mymail.yorku.ca> Message-ID: <161227078422.23782.12400197830016843820.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Friends: An important concept that is overlooked by epistemologists is that of DRISHTI or visual knowledge. While PASHYATI is a verb there is no verb like DRASHYATI. This is the beginning of an inquiry into visual knowledge. I am trying to develop this concept further. Regareds. Harsha Harsha V. Dehejia Professor of Indian Studies, College of Humanities Carleton University, Ottawa, ON. Canada. From knnelayath at HOTMAIL.COM Thu Oct 12 01:37:00 2006 From: knnelayath at HOTMAIL.COM (Dr K N Neelakantan Elayath) Date: Thu, 12 Oct 06 07:07:00 +0530 Subject: Indian epistemic terms In-Reply-To: <1160598601.452d5449c209f@mymail.yorku.ca> Message-ID: <161227078431.23782.18405933723689683437.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Dear Indologist The greatest Indian contribution to Philosophy according to me is its in-depth discussions on pramAna sAstra or epistemology which is carried on to an astounding sbtlety in most of the systems of Indian philosophy.And its basic structure,technical terms and tools were supplied by the NaiyyAyikas,both ancient and modern.Early Buddhism also might have contributed substantially to this branch.Many terminologies introduced by Nyaya philosophy are accepted in most of the Indian philosophical systems.But their definition varies.Terms are sometimes understood totally in a different way.To give an example, the word pratyksha,meaning a perceptual knowledge is understood differently in different Darsanas. Many modern studies and editions of Darsana works in Sanskrit now give a glossary of technical terms in the end.For a proper undestanding of these terms thier study against the background of the structure of their philosophical concepts becomes absolutely necessary. Dr K N Neelakantan Elayath Hony.Professor Adyar Library and Research Certre, Adyar,Chennai-600020 www.knneelakantan.net From harshadehejia at HOTMAIL.COM Thu Oct 12 08:50:02 2006 From: harshadehejia at HOTMAIL.COM (Harsha Dehejia) Date: Thu, 12 Oct 06 08:50:02 +0000 Subject: Grammar. Philosophy and Epistemology In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227078441.23782.16339671045193430871.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Freinds: While I respectfully agree with Madhav Despande's grammatical exposition of Sanskrit terms pazya and dRz I am not totally convinced that one can totally dismiss the connection between grammar and philosophy. Pazya means to see and drz is vision or insight. Seeing does not automatically lead to vision, it requires contemplation. Sanskrit grammar is naunced with many implications. Regards. Harsha Harsha V. Dehejia Professor of Indian Studies, Carleton University Ottawa, ON. Canada. >From: "Deshpande, Madhav" >Reply-To: Indology >To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk >Subject: Re: Indian epistemic terms >Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2006 19:36:05 -0400 > >Dear Harsha, > > 'pazya' and 'dRz' have a suppletive relationship in Sanskrit like'go' >and 'went' in English. Both 'pazya' and 'dRz' taken separately have >incomplete paradigms, but in the actual usage of the language, these two >roots complement each other. So the passive form corresponding to pazyati >is dRzyate, and so on. The Rgvedic passage uta tvaH pazyan na dadarza >vAcam uta tvaH zRNvan na zRNoty enAm exhibits this suppletive behavior. > >Madhav M. Deshpande > > > > >-----Original Message----- >From: Indology on behalf of Harsha Dehejia >Sent: Wed 10/11/2006 5:08 PM >To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk >Subject: Re: Indian epistemic terms > >Friends: > >An important concept that is overlooked by epistemologists is that of >DRISHTI or visual knowledge. > >While PASHYATI is a verb there is no verb like DRASHYATI. This is the >beginning of an inquiry into visual knowledge. > >I am trying to develop this concept further. > >Regareds. > >Harsha >Harsha V. Dehejia >Professor of Indian Studies, College of Humanities >Carleton University, Ottawa, ON. Canada. From lmfosse at CHELLO.NO Thu Oct 12 07:48:36 2006 From: lmfosse at CHELLO.NO (Lars Martin Fosse) Date: Thu, 12 Oct 06 09:48:36 +0200 Subject: Indian epistemic terms In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227078436.23782.16298307513510304708.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Harsha Dehejia wrote: > An important concept that is overlooked by epistemologists is > that of DRISHTI or visual knowledge. > > While PASHYATI is a verb there is no verb like DRASHYATI. > This is the beginning of an inquiry into visual knowledge. I am not sure if this is a relevant argument. Pazyati belongs to the conjugation of the verb dRz. This is a suppletive conjugation where the root dRz handles the aorist, perfect, the future and the absolutive and infinitive, whereas the present and the imperfect is handled by paz (to be compared with Latin specio, the s being a "loose" s which comes and goes in some Indo-European verbs. Thus we have pazyati apazyat, but adrAkSIt, dadarza, drakSyati It is a purely grammatical phenomenon, no conceptual arguments can be drawn from it. Best regards, Lars Martin From: Dr.art. Lars Martin Fosse Haugerudvn. 76, Leil. 114, 0674 Oslo - Norway Phone: +47 22 32 12 19 Fax: +47 850 21 250 Mobile phone: +47 90 91 91 45 E-mail: lmfosse at chello.no http://www.linguistfinder.com/translators.asp?id=2164 > -----Original Message----- > From: Indology [mailto:INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk] On Behalf Of > Harsha Dehejia > Sent: Wednesday, October 11, 2006 11:09 PM > To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk > Subject: Re: Indian epistemic terms > > Friends: > > An important concept that is overlooked by epistemologists is > that of DRISHTI or visual knowledge. > > While PASHYATI is a verb there is no verb like DRASHYATI. > This is the beginning of an inquiry into visual knowledge. > > I am trying to develop this concept further. > > Regareds. > > Harsha > Harsha V. Dehejia > Professor of Indian Studies, College of Humanities Carleton > University, Ottawa, ON. Canada. From birgit.kellner at UNIVIE.AC.AT Thu Oct 12 07:53:37 2006 From: birgit.kellner at UNIVIE.AC.AT (Birgit Kellner) Date: Thu, 12 Oct 06 09:53:37 +0200 Subject: Indian epistemic terms In-Reply-To: <1160598601.452d5449c209f@mymail.yorku.ca> Message-ID: <161227078439.23782.8040519931557047962.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Shyam Ranganathan schrieb: > Dear Indologists > > I'm interested in a survey of technical and nontechnical epistemic terms > employed in Indian philosophical literature. My rather informal impression is > that the Indian tradition has made an art of discussing epistemology that makes > the standard analytic "S knows that P" talk look rather dry. Specifically I am > interested in: > > (a) whether there is any secondary material that has surveyed this issue and > produced some type of list of terms employed in such discussions, and > > I don't have such a list at hand, but it seems to me that part of this phenomenon, if it is indeed observable, results from the choice of objects of comparison: modern analytic philosophy, which aims to reduce its terminology to a standardised English idiom, that is the result of the workings of a science-influenced, globally operating philosophy that has as a discipline separated itself from psychology, versus an ancient form of philosophising which operates in entirely different, and more localised, disciplinary contexts where boundaries between psychology and philosophy as different branches of investigating cognition are much more fluid (not to mention metaphysics). I'm not sure, for instance, whether European medieval philosophy would sound as dry in comparison with Indian philosophical literature as analytic philosophy. (Besides, one of the aspects of Indian epistemology that has been quite frequently remarked on in this connection is its absence of a clear-cut propositional conception of knowledge - classical Indian theories usually speak of "objects" that are known, or cognised. I can't recall any specific citation at the moment, but am confident that you'd find something to that effect in one of the works by Claus Oetke.) > (b) whether there are standard cross-theoretic terms (perhaps "pramana" and > "jnana") that are used in most all traditions in epistemic discussions, or > whether the majority of the discourse is really technical and only accessible > to those who are experts in the relevant darsana. > > Thanks in advance > > It depends on the area of discussion. Broadly speaking, there emerges in the course of time a shared set of, shall we say, methodological concepts as far as the individual pram??as themselves are concerned - for instance, my impression is that one finds heterogenous names for them in early (roughly: pre-Dign?gean) sources, but that later terminology is more or less common among the various traditions (Jainism perhaps being an exception in some respects). Of course, when there emerges inner-traditional debate, e.g. when Buddhists discuss among themselves about the various qualities of the Buddha, discussions may be more technical and might not have been so easily accessible to Naiy?yikas, even if they had been interested in it. Elaborations on the metaphysical or psychological presuppositions of theories of knowledge might also be more technical and "closed" than treatments of issues of method. Accessibility, in addition, is a relative concept. Our present knowledge from the literature that certain terms are specifically Buddhist might lead us to conclude that they would have been accessible only to Buddhists, but since we have little independent knowledge about educational procedures and institutional environments, we can't be sure. Buddhist monasteries, for instance, do seem to have fulfilled broader educational functions (cf. e.g. the famous accounts of N?land? by Chinese pilgrims), and some specifically Buddhist ideas and terms are likely to have diffused to outsiders. Add such institutional meeting-points to a general environment in which diverse traditions compete, also for support by worldly authorities, and accessibility becomes a much more fluid notion. I hope this has been of some help, even though not by answering your questions in a straightforward manner ... Best regards, Birgit Kellner From Greg.Bailey at LATROBE.EDU.AU Thu Oct 12 01:08:07 2006 From: Greg.Bailey at LATROBE.EDU.AU (Gregory Bailey) Date: Thu, 12 Oct 06 11:08:07 +1000 Subject: Austin Message-ID: <161227078428.23782.5253977055439545625.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Dear Jim, Can you please e-mail me a brief formal invitation to attend the Austin conference. This will help me get funding from here. Cheers, Greg From Greg.Bailey at LATROBE.EDU.AU Thu Oct 12 04:54:17 2006 From: Greg.Bailey at LATROBE.EDU.AU (Gregory Bailey) Date: Thu, 12 Oct 06 14:54:17 +1000 Subject: Austin Message-ID: <161227078434.23782.4608137025224882420.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Dear List, Aplogies for sending a private message. Cheers, Greg Bailey -----Original Message----- From: Indology on behalf of Gregory Bailey Sent: Thu 10/12/2006 11:08 AM To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Subject: Re: Austin Dear Jim, Can you please e-mail me a brief formal invitation to attend the Austin conference. This will help me get funding from here. Cheers, Greg From ucgadkw at UCL.AC.UK Thu Oct 12 15:42:46 2006 From: ucgadkw at UCL.AC.UK (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Thu, 12 Oct 06 16:42:46 +0100 Subject: Grammar. Philosophy and Epistemology In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227078443.23782.3643537373235749437.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> What Madhav is saying is that the pazya- and dRz- don't have any semantically significant distinction. Their distribution in language usage is governed by the *formal* requirements of grammatical suppletion, not by semantic significance. Madhav certainly isn't dismissing a connection between grammar and philosophy! The pazya- / dRz forms are mutually-exclusive formal alternates, whose occurrence depends on formal grammatical conditions, not on semantic context. The Paninian rule that bears on this is 7.3.78, which rules that "pazya" replaces "dRzi" when followed by a suffix with the marker "z". There is no suggestion here of any semantic trigger to the rule: the trigger is purely formal. In strictly Paninian terms (and vaiyakaranas, please correct me if I'm wrong) there is no dhatu "paz" meaning "see", but only "dRz". So, it would be wrong to say that pazyati means "he sees" in contrast to, say, tasya darzanam vartate, "he has [profound] vision or insight". The statements are semantically identical. Both phonetic forms can signify a range of "see" acts, determined by the sentences they occur in. Historical lexicographical study on these terms as embodied in the standard dictionaries also does not support a difference. There's a reasonable summary on grammatical suppletion at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suppletion (I'm constantly surprised by Wikipedia.) Best, Dominik On Thu, 12 Oct 2006, Harsha Dehejia wrote: > Freinds: > > While I respectfully agree with Madhav Despande's grammatical exposition of > Sanskrit terms pazya and dRz I am not totally convinced that one can totally > dismiss the connection between grammar and philosophy. > > Pazya means to see and drz is vision or insight. Seeing does not > automatically lead to vision, it requires contemplation. > > Sanskrit grammar is naunced with many implications. > > Regards. > > Harsha > Harsha V. Dehejia > Professor of Indian Studies, Carleton University > Ottawa, ON. Canada. > > >> From: "Deshpande, Madhav" >> Reply-To: Indology >> To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk >> Subject: Re: Indian epistemic terms >> Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2006 19:36:05 -0400 >> >> Dear Harsha, >> >> 'pazya' and 'dRz' have a suppletive relationship in Sanskrit like'go' >> and 'went' in English. Both 'pazya' and 'dRz' taken separately have >> incomplete paradigms, but in the actual usage of the language, these two >> roots complement each other. So the passive form corresponding to pazyati >> is dRzyate, and so on. The Rgvedic passage uta tvaH pazyan na dadarza >> vAcam uta tvaH zRNvan na zRNoty enAm exhibits this suppletive behavior. >> >> Madhav M. Deshpande >> >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Indology on behalf of Harsha Dehejia >> Sent: Wed 10/11/2006 5:08 PM >> To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk >> Subject: Re: Indian epistemic terms >> >> Friends: >> >> An important concept that is overlooked by epistemologists is that of >> DRISHTI or visual knowledge. >> >> While PASHYATI is a verb there is no verb like DRASHYATI. This is the >> beginning of an inquiry into visual knowledge. >> >> I am trying to develop this concept further. >> >> Regareds. >> >> Harsha >> Harsha V. Dehejia >> Professor of Indian Studies, College of Humanities >> Carleton University, Ottawa, ON. Canada. > From glhart at BERKELEY.EDU Fri Oct 13 13:48:53 2006 From: glhart at BERKELEY.EDU (George Hart) Date: Fri, 13 Oct 06 06:48:53 -0700 Subject: Grammar. Philosophy and Epistemology In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227078450.23782.5454526089341263685.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> The issue of connotation in Sanskrit is an extremely complex one. I would suggest the following: 1. In the classical period, Sanskrit cannot be considered a language, but rather is a style. It is the same language as the various Prakrits (which are dialects of each other and of Sanskrit). A similar situation (diglossia) exists in Tamil and older Telugu. Formal Tamil is every bit as different from the various kinds of spoken Tamil as Sanskrit is from the Prakrits. In the Sanskrit plays, characters who speak Prakrit have no difficulty understanding those who speak Sanskrit, just as even illiterate Tamilians can easily understand formal Tamil, even though it is very different from the language they speak. 2. The connotations words have in Sanskrit are influenced, and perhaps even determined, by the use of tadbhavas and tatsamas in Prakrits and other languages (including, of course, Dravidian). 3. Because of this, Sanskrit words change their meanings -- or at least their connotations -- over time. Styles of Sanskrit also change. 4. Everyone who writes in Sanskrit from classical times to the present is deeply and profoundly influenced by his/her native language or Prakrit. In this regard, Sanskrit cannot be separated from the other Indian languages. Of course, Sanskrit writers are also influenced by earlier Sanskrit texts also. A good example is the Bhagavatam. Its writer concocts pseudo-Vedic forms while using many elements from the Tamil spoken by Srivaisnavas in Tamil Nadu. In sum, it does seem to me that to properly understand Sanskrit usage, it is essential to look at the Prakrits and other Indian forms of speech and languages. One should be aware that the meaning (or at least connotation) of words in Sanskrit is a moving target. And one should know another Indian language well. I rather doubt that paz and dRz have different meanings, but a glance at Prakrit usage would surely help out in this regard. Similarly, to understand Ramanuja, it is (I would argue) essential that one know Nammazvar and be acquainted with the extraordinary range and richness of his Tamil lexicon (e.g. the use of nalam in the first Paacuram of the Tiruvaaymozi). This brings to mind one more issue regarding Sanskrit. Ingalls, as I remember it, claimed that Sanskrit has perfect synonyms, and that in this regard, it differs from ordinary languages. For example nRpa, raajaa, and bhuumipa all mean exactly the same, while in English "king" and "monarch" have different connotations (the same for the many words for "king" in Tamil). It seems to me that the connotations of these words are mediated by their usage in other languages. A Tamil would understand all three Sanskrit words, but each would have slightly different weight or degree of formality. Surely, this is transferred into Sanskrit when that Tamil speaker writes in that language. George Hart On Oct 12, 2006, at 8:42 AM, Dominik Wujastyk wrote: > What Madhav is saying is that the pazya- and dRz- don't have any > semantically significant distinction. Their distribution in > language usage is governed by the *formal* requirements of > grammatical suppletion, not by semantic significance. Madhav > certainly isn't dismissing a connection between grammar and > philosophy! The pazya- / dRz forms are mutually-exclusive formal > alternates, whose occurrence depends on formal grammatical > conditions, not on semantic context. > > The Paninian rule that bears on this is 7.3.78, which rules that > "pazya" replaces "dRzi" when followed by a suffix with the marker > "z". There is no suggestion here of any semantic trigger to the > rule: the trigger is purely formal. > > In strictly Paninian terms (and vaiyakaranas, please correct me if > I'm wrong) there is no dhatu "paz" meaning "see", but only "dRz". > > So, it would be wrong to say that pazyati means "he sees" in > contrast to, say, tasya darzanam vartate, "he has [profound] vision > or insight". The statements are semantically identical. Both > phonetic forms can signify a range of "see" acts, determined by the > sentences they occur in. Historical lexicographical study on these > terms as embodied in the standard dictionaries also does not > support a difference. > > There's a reasonable summary on grammatical suppletion at > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suppletion > (I'm constantly surprised by Wikipedia.) > > Best, > Dominik > > > On Thu, 12 Oct 2006, Harsha Dehejia wrote: > >> Freinds: >> >> While I respectfully agree with Madhav Despande's grammatical >> exposition of Sanskrit terms pazya and dRz I am not totally >> convinced that one can totally dismiss the connection between >> grammar and philosophy. >> >> Pazya means to see and drz is vision or insight. Seeing does not >> automatically lead to vision, it requires contemplation. >> >> Sanskrit grammar is naunced with many implications. >> >> Regards. >> >> Harsha >> Harsha V. Dehejia >> Professor of Indian Studies, Carleton University >> Ottawa, ON. Canada. >> >> >>> From: "Deshpande, Madhav" >>> Reply-To: Indology >>> To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk >>> Subject: Re: Indian epistemic terms >>> Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2006 19:36:05 -0400 >>> Dear Harsha, >>> >>> 'pazya' and 'dRz' have a suppletive relationship in Sanskrit >>> like'go' and 'went' in English. Both 'pazya' and 'dRz' taken >>> separately have incomplete paradigms, but in the actual usage of >>> the language, these two roots complement each other. So the >>> passive form corresponding to pazyati is dRzyate, and so on. The >>> Rgvedic passage uta tvaH pazyan na dadarza vAcam uta tvaH zRNvan >>> na zRNoty enAm exhibits this suppletive behavior. >>> Madhav M. Deshpande >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Indology on behalf of Harsha Dehejia >>> Sent: Wed 10/11/2006 5:08 PM >>> To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk >>> Subject: Re: Indian epistemic terms >>> Friends: >>> An important concept that is overlooked by epistemologists is >>> that of >>> DRISHTI or visual knowledge. >>> While PASHYATI is a verb there is no verb like DRASHYATI. This >>> is the >>> beginning of an inquiry into visual knowledge. >>> I am trying to develop this concept further. >>> Regareds. >>> Harsha >>> Harsha V. Dehejia >>> Professor of Indian Studies, College of Humanities >>> Carleton University, Ottawa, ON. Canada. >> From mkapstei at UCHICAGO.EDU Fri Oct 13 13:25:06 2006 From: mkapstei at UCHICAGO.EDU (Matthew Kapstein) Date: Fri, 13 Oct 06 08:25:06 -0500 Subject: Grammar. Philosophy and Epistemology In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227078448.23782.10908597459566703090.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> But what about terms like vipazyanaa, "insight" (in Buddhist usage) or pazantii as the transcendent ground of linguistic possibilities in Bhart.rhari? To attempt to draw a strict semantic dichotomy between d.rz and paz seems altogether unwarranted. More useful, to clarify to some extent what is at stake here, would be to attend to the issue of ocularity, particularly as represented in the Indo-European languages and in the philosophical traditions elaborated in them. There has been a great deal of philosophical ink spilled over the Western iterations of the question, beginning with Richard Rorty and continuing into more recent works such as David Levin, The Philosopher's Gaze. None of this, of course, will help will the Sanskrit, but it may help in getting more clear conceptually about just what is at stake in the tie between "seeing" and "knowing." Matthew Kapstein Chicago and Paris From harshadehejia at HOTMAIL.COM Fri Oct 13 09:57:38 2006 From: harshadehejia at HOTMAIL.COM (Harsha Dehejia) Date: Fri, 13 Oct 06 09:57:38 +0000 Subject: Grammar. Philosophy and Epistemology In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227078446.23782.12462265432225176470.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Friends: While respectfully agreeing with Madhav and Dominik, may I say that Panini's Vyakrana was merely a systematisation of Sanskrit that had already developed? Just as hasta mudras of dance are merely refinements of ordinary gestures and codified shilpa is stylisation of folk images. I would like to suggest that intuitive, not formal, semantics in Sanskrit occured much before Panini and therefore one cannot discount sugestions of semantics that one finds in words such as drishti. Regards. Harsha Harsha V. Dehejia Professor of Indian Studies, Carleton University Ottawa, ON., Canada. From mkapstei at UCHICAGO.EDU Fri Oct 13 15:50:00 2006 From: mkapstei at UCHICAGO.EDU (Matthew Kapstein) Date: Fri, 13 Oct 06 10:50:00 -0500 Subject: Ideas of political science in mahakavyas In-Reply-To: <965fdc5f0610130816t77be0256oc2c99eed937f984e@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <161227078455.23782.14523327793964513118.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> No doubt the best place to begin now, in order to consider the interrelationship between kaavya and politics, is Sheldon Pollock's The Language of the Gods in the World of Men (University of California Press, 2006). Matthew Kapstein Paris and Chicago From drm8 at COLUMBIA.EDU Fri Oct 13 16:58:14 2006 From: drm8 at COLUMBIA.EDU (David Rustin Mellins) Date: Fri, 13 Oct 06 12:58:14 -0400 Subject: Grammar. Philosophy and Epistemology In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227078457.23782.10139101234331831031.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Perhaps .Rg Veda 10.71.4 is suitable to consider in the current inquiry. uta tva.h pa'syan na dadar.sa vaacam uta tva.h 's.r.nvan na 's.r.noti evam/ uto tvasmai tanva.m vi sasre jaayeva patyau'satii suvaasaa.h// While the the limited worldly seing "pas'yan" is expressed through the base "pa'sya" and the more profound spiritual insight is expressed through the root "d.r's," this might simply be a result of the specific grammatical forms: present particible and perfect. Also, one might consider Somaananda's critique (in the second chapter of the 'Sivad.r.s.ti) of Bhart.rhari's use of term Pa'syantii to represent the ontological purity of speech on account of association with dualistic vision. David Mellins, Ph.D. Rutgers University Quoting Matthew Kapstein : > But what about terms like vipazyanaa, "insight" (in Buddhist > usage) > or pazantii as the transcendent ground of linguistic > possibilities > in Bhart.rhari? > > To attempt to draw a strict semantic dichotomy between d.rz and > paz seems altogether unwarranted. > > More useful, to clarify to some extent what is at stake here, > would be to attend to the issue of ocularity, particularly as > represented in the Indo-European languages and in the > philosophical > traditions elaborated in them. There has been a great deal of > philosophical ink spilled over the Western iterations of the > question, beginning with Richard Rorty and continuing into > more recent works such as David Levin, The Philosopher's Gaze. > None of this, of course, will help will the Sanskrit, but it > may help in getting more clear conceptually about just what > is at stake in the tie between "seeing" and "knowing." > > Matthew Kapstein > Chicago and Paris > From drm8 at COLUMBIA.EDU Fri Oct 13 22:16:31 2006 From: drm8 at COLUMBIA.EDU (David Rustin Mellins) Date: Fri, 13 Oct 06 18:16:31 -0400 Subject: Apology for Reiteration In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227078460.23782.3004184332478339880.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Sorry to have reduplicated Madhav's earlier citation of the same Mantra. David Mellins Quoting "Deshpande, Madhav" : > Dear Harsha, > > 'pazya' and 'dRz' have a suppletive relationship in Sanskrit > like'go' and 'went' in English. Both 'pazya' and 'dRz' taken > separately have incomplete paradigms, but in the actual usage of > the language, these two roots complement each other. So the > passive form corresponding to pazyati is dRzyate, and so on. The > Rgvedic passage uta tvaH pazyan na dadarza vAcam uta tvaH zRNvan > na zRNoty enAm exhibits this suppletive behavior. > > Madhav M. Deshpande > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Indology on behalf of Harsha Dehejia > Sent: Wed 10/11/2006 5:08 PM > To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk > Subject: Re: Indian epistemic terms > > Friends: > > An important concept that is overlooked by epistemologists is > that of > DRISHTI or visual knowledge. > > While PASHYATI is a verb there is no verb like DRASHYATI. This is > the > beginning of an inquiry into visual knowledge. > > I am trying to develop this concept further. > > Regareds. > > Harsha > Harsha V. Dehejia > Professor of Indian Studies, College of Humanities > Carleton University, Ottawa, ON. Canada. > From veerankp at GMAIL.COM Fri Oct 13 15:16:17 2006 From: veerankp at GMAIL.COM (veeranarayana Pandurangi) Date: Fri, 13 Oct 06 20:46:17 +0530 Subject: Ideas of political science in mahakavyas Message-ID: <161227078452.23782.16736288580573755884.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> dear friends, one of my friends wants to work on Ideas of political science in mahakavyas. are there any references and suggestions. vnkp -- V.N.K.Pandurangi Head, Dept of Darshan, Yoganandacharya Bhavan, Jagadguru Ramanandacharya Rajsthan Sanskrita University, Madau, post Bhankrota, Jaipur, 302026. From gthomgt at ADELPHIA.NET Sat Oct 14 01:12:50 2006 From: gthomgt at ADELPHIA.NET (george thompson) Date: Fri, 13 Oct 06 21:12:50 -0400 Subject: Grammar. Philosophy and Epistemology In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227078462.23782.10199343622789155826.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Dear List, George Hart's comments about the connection between the connotations of Sanskrit words and semantically related terms in other Indic languages are well taken, but as far as I can see this issue hinges rather simply on Harsha Dehejia's ability to offer concrete textual evidence that there is in fact a real semantic split between the roots dRS- and paz-. To many of us it is clear that the relationship between these two verbs is merely suppletive. Anyone who would challenge this obvious objection is obliged, I would think, to offer some sort of evidence. I haven't seen any evidence. George Thompson George Hart wrote: > The issue of connotation in Sanskrit is an extremely complex one. I > would suggest the following: > > 1. In the classical period, Sanskrit cannot be considered a language, > but rather is a style. It is the same language as the various > Prakrits (which are dialects of each other and of Sanskrit). A > similar situation (diglossia) exists in Tamil and older Telugu. > Formal Tamil is every bit as different from the various kinds of > spoken Tamil as Sanskrit is from the Prakrits. In the Sanskrit > plays, characters who speak Prakrit have no difficulty understanding > those who speak Sanskrit, just as even illiterate Tamilians can > easily understand formal Tamil, even though it is very different from > the language they speak. > > 2. The connotations words have in Sanskrit are influenced, and > perhaps even determined, by the use of tadbhavas and tatsamas in > Prakrits and other languages (including, of course, Dravidian). > > 3. Because of this, Sanskrit words change their meanings -- or at > least their connotations -- over time. Styles of Sanskrit also change. > > 4. Everyone who writes in Sanskrit from classical times to the > present is deeply and profoundly influenced by his/her native > language or Prakrit. In this regard, Sanskrit cannot be separated > from the other Indian languages. > > Of course, Sanskrit writers are also influenced by earlier Sanskrit > texts also. A good example is the Bhagavatam. Its writer concocts > pseudo-Vedic forms while using many elements from the Tamil spoken by > Srivaisnavas in Tamil Nadu. > > In sum, it does seem to me that to properly understand Sanskrit > usage, it is essential to look at the Prakrits and other Indian forms > of speech and languages. One should be aware that the meaning (or at > least connotation) of words in Sanskrit is a moving target. And one > should know another Indian language well. I rather doubt that paz > and dRz have different meanings, but a glance at Prakrit usage would > surely help out in this regard. Similarly, to understand Ramanuja, > it is (I would argue) essential that one know Nammazvar and be > acquainted with the extraordinary range and richness of his Tamil > lexicon (e.g. the use of nalam in the first Paacuram of the > Tiruvaaymozi). > > This brings to mind one more issue regarding Sanskrit. Ingalls, as I > remember it, claimed that Sanskrit has perfect synonyms, and that in > this regard, it differs from ordinary languages. For example nRpa, > raajaa, and bhuumipa all mean exactly the same, while in English > "king" and "monarch" have different connotations (the same for the > many words for "king" in Tamil). It seems to me that the > connotations of these words are mediated by their usage in other > languages. A Tamil would understand all three Sanskrit words, but > each would have slightly different weight or degree of formality. > Surely, this is transferred into Sanskrit when that Tamil speaker > writes in that language. > > George Hart > > On Oct 12, 2006, at 8:42 AM, Dominik Wujastyk wrote: > >> What Madhav is saying is that the pazya- and dRz- don't have any >> semantically significant distinction. Their distribution in >> language usage is governed by the *formal* requirements of >> grammatical suppletion, not by semantic significance. Madhav >> certainly isn't dismissing a connection between grammar and >> philosophy! The pazya- / dRz forms are mutually-exclusive formal >> alternates, whose occurrence depends on formal grammatical >> conditions, not on semantic context. >> >> The Paninian rule that bears on this is 7.3.78, which rules that >> "pazya" replaces "dRzi" when followed by a suffix with the marker >> "z". There is no suggestion here of any semantic trigger to the >> rule: the trigger is purely formal. >> >> In strictly Paninian terms (and vaiyakaranas, please correct me if >> I'm wrong) there is no dhatu "paz" meaning "see", but only "dRz". >> >> So, it would be wrong to say that pazyati means "he sees" in >> contrast to, say, tasya darzanam vartate, "he has [profound] vision >> or insight". The statements are semantically identical. Both >> phonetic forms can signify a range of "see" acts, determined by the >> sentences they occur in. Historical lexicographical study on these >> terms as embodied in the standard dictionaries also does not support >> a difference. >> >> There's a reasonable summary on grammatical suppletion at >> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suppletion >> (I'm constantly surprised by Wikipedia.) >> >> Best, >> Dominik >> >> >> On Thu, 12 Oct 2006, Harsha Dehejia wrote: >> >>> Freinds: >>> >>> While I respectfully agree with Madhav Despande's grammatical >>> exposition of Sanskrit terms pazya and dRz I am not totally >>> convinced that one can totally dismiss the connection between >>> grammar and philosophy. >>> >>> Pazya means to see and drz is vision or insight. Seeing does not >>> automatically lead to vision, it requires contemplation. >>> >>> Sanskrit grammar is naunced with many implications. >>> >>> Regards. >>> >>> Harsha >>> Harsha V. Dehejia >>> Professor of Indian Studies, Carleton University >>> Ottawa, ON. Canada. >>> >>> >>>> From: "Deshpande, Madhav" >>>> Reply-To: Indology >>>> To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk >>>> Subject: Re: Indian epistemic terms >>>> Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2006 19:36:05 -0400 >>>> Dear Harsha, >>>> >>>> 'pazya' and 'dRz' have a suppletive relationship in Sanskrit >>>> like'go' and 'went' in English. Both 'pazya' and 'dRz' taken >>>> separately have incomplete paradigms, but in the actual usage of >>>> the language, these two roots complement each other. So the >>>> passive form corresponding to pazyati is dRzyate, and so on. The >>>> Rgvedic passage uta tvaH pazyan na dadarza vAcam uta tvaH zRNvan >>>> na zRNoty enAm exhibits this suppletive behavior. >>>> Madhav M. Deshpande >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: Indology on behalf of Harsha Dehejia >>>> Sent: Wed 10/11/2006 5:08 PM >>>> To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk >>>> Subject: Re: Indian epistemic terms >>>> Friends: >>>> An important concept that is overlooked by epistemologists is that of >>>> DRISHTI or visual knowledge. >>>> While PASHYATI is a verb there is no verb like DRASHYATI. This is >>>> the >>>> beginning of an inquiry into visual knowledge. >>>> I am trying to develop this concept further. >>>> Regareds. >>>> Harsha >>>> Harsha V. Dehejia >>>> Professor of Indian Studies, College of Humanities >>>> Carleton University, Ottawa, ON. Canada. >>> >>> > > From aklujkar at INTERCHANGE.UBC.CA Sat Oct 14 08:00:10 2006 From: aklujkar at INTERCHANGE.UBC.CA (Ashok Aklujkar) Date: Sat, 14 Oct 06 01:00:10 -0700 Subject: Grammar. Philosophy and Epistemology In-Reply-To: <45303992.4070303@adelphia.net> Message-ID: <161227078465.23782.11233896831881413538.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> 1. A suppletive relationship does not come about unless the meanings of the two roots overlap and have potential to complement each other. 2. In a language naturally used, perfect synonymity is rare if not absent. 3. Both pa;s (in its earlier form spa;s) and d.r;s go back to a period in which what we call Sanskrit is unlikely not to have a natural use (cf. Mayrhofer KEWA pp. II.61, 240; EWA p. I.704-706, p. II.107-108). In other words, the two roots must originally have similar/relatable but not identical meanings. 4. The issue, therefore, should not be whether the two roots had different connotations but what those connotations were and whether we can determine them with reasonable certainty. 5. Even if we were able to determine the connotations for the earliest accessible period it does not follow that the same connotations would hold for the later period(s). Independent or further connotation development cannot be ruled out. (Implication: One will need to establish separately that words such as d.r.s.ti, dar;sana etc.connote 'vision, a seeing resulting from meditation, insight' AND to determine whether such a connotation forms a continuity with the earlier connotation.) 6. From the evidence recorded in Mayrhofer and from what I felt in the case of two uses in addition to the uta tva.h pa;syan use already cited, it seems that the original or earliest determinable connotational difference between d.r;s and pa;s could be identified in one or more of the following ways: (a) in d.r;s, the object is assumed to take the initiative (i.e., d.r;s, originally, is more like English "appear"), whereas in pa;s the initiative is presupposed to rest with the subject/agent. (b) pa;s implies 'intent, deliberateness or conscious use of the faculty of seeing,' whereas d.r;s has no such implication; its meaning borders on that of happenstance; cf. "spy" as related to pa;s/spa;s. (c) pa;s incorporates an element of clarity or vividness; d.r;s does not and is, therefore, required to depend on the context if the element of clarity or vividness is to be conveyed; cf. spa.s.ta, which is historically the past passive participle of pa;s/spa;s. Possibly the name Paspa;saa of the first chapter in Pata;njali's Mahaabhaa.sya which is an intensive formation from pa;s/spa;s also conveys clarification as the intent. 7. The two additional uses I have mentioned above are these: (a) An almost perfectly contrastive pair is supplied by the expressions asuurya.mpa;sya 'one who does not see (even) the Sun, one who does not appear in public' and mantrad.r;s 'one who sees a mantra.' The former is found applied to women in a ruler's harem. They are so well-protected or concerned with chastity that they never step out of their quarters and see the Sun. In the case of the latter, it should be noted that the seeing of mantras has frequently been spoken of as happening unexpectedly, or in odd places, or as a temporary state (suggesting inexhaustive grasping); cf. the stories in B.rhad-devataa. (b) A part of Bhart.r-hari's Brahma-kaa.n.da verse 5 has the following explanation in the V.rtti: yaa.m suuk.smaa.m nityaam atiindriyaa.m vaacam .r.saya.h saak.saak.saat-k.rta-dharmaa.no mantrad.r;sa.h pa;syanti ... Here, it is unlikely that the three roots saak.saat-k.r, d.r;s and pa;s would mean exactly the same thing. For the latter two, a meaning like 'As the seers see the mantras, they spot/perceive with clarity/certainty the subtle, permanent and sense-transcending Vaac" seems more probable. 8. Others may be able to suggest better identifications of the connotational difference between d.r;s and pa;s. My main intention is not to argue for only a certain connotational difference but to object to proceeding on the assumption that there is no connotational difference. The entries in Mayrhofer establish that the issue under discussion has already received much scholarly attention. 9. The same entries also establish that the suppletion of d.r;s and pa;s is not as neat as some of the earlier postings may lead one to believe. Perfect paspa;se and Aorist aspa.s.ta are said to be attested. ashok aklujkar From harshadehejia at HOTMAIL.COM Sat Oct 14 08:31:26 2006 From: harshadehejia at HOTMAIL.COM (Harsha Dehejia) Date: Sat, 14 Oct 06 08:31:26 +0000 Subject: Grammar. Philosophy and Epistemology In-Reply-To: <45303992.4070303@adelphia.net> Message-ID: <161227078468.23782.12241114350737057671.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Freinds: While I cannot offer any textual evience, as I am not a Sanskritist, I am convinced that even in the pre-Panini times many, if not all, Sanskrit words were semantically and etymologically driven. Refeences to language in the Rg Veda are very sugestive of this. Regards. Harsha. From mmdesh at UMICH.EDU Sat Oct 14 14:19:00 2006 From: mmdesh at UMICH.EDU (Deshpande, Madhav) Date: Sat, 14 Oct 06 10:19:00 -0400 Subject: Grammar. Philosophy and Epistemology Message-ID: <161227078470.23782.3631745032548357793.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Dear colleagues, It is not clear to me if the distinctions between pazya and dRz as pointed out by Ashok are justified in view of the vedic textual evidence. In passages like "darzam hi vizvadarzatam darzam ratham adhi kSami", "ko dadarza pratham jAyamAnam", along side with "apazyam gopAm anipadyamAnam", "apazyam grAmam vahamAnam", "apazyam tvA manasA cekitAnam" etc. there is hardly any distinction, only a complimentary distribution of pazya and dRz forms. And for mantradRz being different from any relation to pazya, note many Brahmana/Upanishad passages describing how a certain sage produced a certain verse: tad etat pazyan RSir uvAca, or mantreSu karmANi kavayo yAny apazyan. There does not seem to be as contrastive a semantic distinction between pazya and dRz in these texts. The one likely distinction that seems to guide the suppletive relationship is that while the semantics of pazya refers to an on-going process of observing/watching without a necessary conclusive moment of culmination, dRz seems to have a sense of achievement culminating a conclusive moment, compare Buddhist vipassanA/vipazyanA as a meditative process, contrasting with dassana/darzana as a conclusive moment of realization. The pazya forms occur in imperfective semantics, while dRz seem to occur in perfective semantics. For what it is worth, I have discussed some of this early textual evidence relating to pazya and dRz occurences and its theoretical implications in an article: 1992. "Justification for Verb-Root Suppletion in Sanskrit." In Historische Sprachforschung (new name for the old Zeitschrift fuer vergleichende Sprachforschung), Vol. 105, Pt. 1, pp. 18-49. None of this precludes subsequent developments in specific religious or philosophical traditions, but that would need a separate demonstration of textual evidence. Madhav M. Deshpande -----Original Message----- From: Indology on behalf of Ashok Aklujkar Sent: Sat 10/14/2006 4:00 AM To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Subject: Re: Grammar. Philosophy and Epistemology 1. A suppletive relationship does not come about unless the meanings of the two roots overlap and have potential to complement each other. 2. In a language naturally used, perfect synonymity is rare if not absent. 3. Both pa;s (in its earlier form spa;s) and d.r;s go back to a period in which what we call Sanskrit is unlikely not to have a natural use (cf. Mayrhofer KEWA pp. II.61, 240; EWA p. I.704-706, p. II.107-108). In other words, the two roots must originally have similar/relatable but not identical meanings. 4. The issue, therefore, should not be whether the two roots had different connotations but what those connotations were and whether we can determine them with reasonable certainty. 5. Even if we were able to determine the connotations for the earliest accessible period it does not follow that the same connotations would hold for the later period(s). Independent or further connotation development cannot be ruled out. (Implication: One will need to establish separately that words such as d.r.s.ti, dar;sana etc.connote 'vision, a seeing resulting from meditation, insight' AND to determine whether such a connotation forms a continuity with the earlier connotation.) 6. From the evidence recorded in Mayrhofer and from what I felt in the case of two uses in addition to the uta tva.h pa;syan use already cited, it seems that the original or earliest determinable connotational difference between d.r;s and pa;s could be identified in one or more of the following ways: (a) in d.r;s, the object is assumed to take the initiative (i.e., d.r;s, originally, is more like English "appear"), whereas in pa;s the initiative is presupposed to rest with the subject/agent. (b) pa;s implies 'intent, deliberateness or conscious use of the faculty of seeing,' whereas d.r;s has no such implication; its meaning borders on that of happenstance; cf. "spy" as related to pa;s/spa;s. (c) pa;s incorporates an element of clarity or vividness; d.r;s does not and is, therefore, required to depend on the context if the element of clarity or vividness is to be conveyed; cf. spa.s.ta, which is historically the past passive participle of pa;s/spa;s. Possibly the name Paspa;saa of the first chapter in Pata;njali's Mahaabhaa.sya which is an intensive formation from pa;s/spa;s also conveys clarification as the intent. 7. The two additional uses I have mentioned above are these: (a) An almost perfectly contrastive pair is supplied by the expressions asuurya.mpa;sya 'one who does not see (even) the Sun, one who does not appear in public' and mantrad.r;s 'one who sees a mantra.' The former is found applied to women in a ruler's harem. They are so well-protected or concerned with chastity that they never step out of their quarters and see the Sun. In the case of the latter, it should be noted that the seeing of mantras has frequently been spoken of as happening unexpectedly, or in odd places, or as a temporary state (suggesting inexhaustive grasping); cf. the stories in B.rhad-devataa. (b) A part of Bhart.r-hari's Brahma-kaa.n.da verse 5 has the following explanation in the V.rtti: yaa.m suuk.smaa.m nityaam atiindriyaa.m vaacam .r.saya.h saak.saak.saat-k.rta-dharmaa.no mantrad.r;sa.h pa;syanti ... Here, it is unlikely that the three roots saak.saat-k.r, d.r;s and pa;s would mean exactly the same thing. For the latter two, a meaning like 'As the seers see the mantras, they spot/perceive with clarity/certainty the subtle, permanent and sense-transcending Vaac" seems more probable. 8. Others may be able to suggest better identifications of the connotational difference between d.r;s and pa;s. My main intention is not to argue for only a certain connotational difference but to object to proceeding on the assumption that there is no connotational difference. The entries in Mayrhofer establish that the issue under discussion has already received much scholarly attention. 9. The same entries also establish that the suppletion of d.r;s and pa;s is not as neat as some of the earlier postings may lead one to believe. Perfect paspa;se and Aorist aspa.s.ta are said to be attested. ashok aklujkar From Palaniappa at AOL.COM Sat Oct 14 17:44:23 2006 From: Palaniappa at AOL.COM (Sudalaimuthu Palaniappan) Date: Sat, 14 Oct 06 13:44:23 -0400 Subject: kakSIvat in matsya purANa Message-ID: <161227078472.23782.1783026894377271986.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Dear Indologists, J. Muir in his "Original Sanskrit texts on the Origin and Progress of the Religion and Institutions of India", vol 1, p. 279 is supposed to describe a matsya purANa passage with the list of Rg Vedic brAhmaNa RSis including kakSIvat. I do not have access to Muir's book. I would appreciate any details/reference of the Matsya Purana passage. Thanks in advance. Regards, S. Palaniappan From reimann at BERKELEY.EDU Sun Oct 15 00:39:00 2006 From: reimann at BERKELEY.EDU (Luis Gonzalez-Reimann) Date: Sat, 14 Oct 06 17:39:00 -0700 Subject: kakSIvat in matsya purANa In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227078477.23782.14663428585651846550.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Dear Palaniappan, Muir gives the passage as Matsya PurANa 132.98-118. However, in the editions I have here (in Skt. and English) the adhyAya is 145 instead of 132. What I have is: The MatsyamahApurANam. 1984. New Delhi: Meharchand Lachhmandas. A Taluqdar of Oudh, trans. [1916] 1980. The Matsya Puranam. The Sacred Books of the Hindus, ed. B. D. Basu, 17, pts. 1-2. New Delhi: Munshiram Manoharlal. Luis Gonz?lez-Reimann _____ At 10:44 AM 10/14/2006, you wrote: >Dear Indologists, > >J. Muir in his "Original Sanskrit texts on the Origin and Progress of the >Religion and Institutions of India", vol 1, p. 279 is supposed to describe a >matsya purANa passage with the list of Rg Vedic brAhmaNa RSis including >kakSIvat. I do not have access to Muir's book. I would appreciate any >details/reference of the Matsya Purana passage. > >Thanks in advance. > >Regards, >S. Palaniappan From gthomgt at ADELPHIA.NET Sun Oct 15 00:31:42 2006 From: gthomgt at ADELPHIA.NET (george thompson) Date: Sat, 14 Oct 06 20:31:42 -0400 Subject: kakSIvat in matsya purANa In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227078474.23782.16284870088547821316.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Dear Sudalaimuthu Palaniappan, Muir cites Matsya Purana 132 [98-118], and Kaksivat is indeed cited there [at 110]. I'm very sorry that I can't send you the whole passage on internet. I don't have scanning equipment, and the passage is too long for my sore fingers to type them all in. I don't see anything of much significance here. It is just a list of names. But if you need the full passage I would be happy to photocopy the relevant pages and mail them to you. If this helps you, just send me your postal address off-list. Or, if you need citation of only a brief passage I could send that to you by email. Best wishes, George Thompson Sudalaimuthu Palaniappan wrote: >Dear Indologists, > >J. Muir in his "Original Sanskrit texts on the Origin and Progress of the >Religion and Institutions of India", vol 1, p. 279 is supposed to describe a >matsya purANa passage with the list of Rg Vedic brAhmaNa RSis including >kakSIvat. I do not have access to Muir's book. I would appreciate any >details/reference of the Matsya Purana passage. > >Thanks in advance. > >Regards, >S. Palaniappan > > > > From aklujkar at INTERCHANGE.UBC.CA Sun Oct 15 14:20:31 2006 From: aklujkar at INTERCHANGE.UBC.CA (Ashok Aklujkar) Date: Sun, 15 Oct 06 07:20:31 -0700 Subject: Grammar. Philosophy and Epistemology In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227078483.23782.15026291087684020518.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Thanks, Madhav. As point no. 8 in my last post clarifies, I was not arguing for the acceptance of a specific semantic distinction, only for the position that there must be a distinction. I am open to specifications of distinction different from the ones I have come up with. If you think that the nouns vipassanA/vipazyanA and dassana/darzana contain, respectively, the element 'an on-going process without a necessary conclusive moment of culmination' and the element 'a sense of achievement culminating a conclusive moment,' why should we not associate the elements respectively with the roots in the nouns, namely with pa;s/pa;sya and d.r;s? Certainly the mutually differing elements cannot be associated with the suffix anaa/ana. The association of elements with the roots would be just another way of saying that their connotations differ -- that they have a semantic distinction. If one root has only imperfective semantics and the other only perfective semantics, should there not be something in their meanings that is conducive to the emergence of neat alliances, respectively, with verbal suffixes signifying "on-going processes without a necessary conclusive moment of culmination" and with verbal suffixes signifying "a sense of achievement culminating a conclusive moment"? Also, are the alliances really neat? How do we account for the perfective element in the form paspa;se quoted by Mayrfofer or in the past participle spa.s.ta? (Alternatively, could we be reading 'an on-going process' element in vipassanA/vipazyanA and 'a sense of achievement' element in dassana/darzana because we associated imperfective semantics with the finite verbs derived from pa;s and perfective semantics with the finite verbs derived from d.r;s or because we know that vipassanaa, being associated primarily with Theravaada Buddhism, should have no conclusion/implication of achievement? Actually, both vipassanaa and dar;sana, being action nouns, should not lose the 'on-going process' element.) You write: > for mantradRz being different from any relation to pazya, note many > Brahmana/Upanishad passages describing how a certain sage produced a certain > verse: tad etat pazyan RSir uvAca, or mantreSu karmANi kavayo yAny apazyan. > There does not seem to be as contrastive a semantic distinction between pazya > and dRz in these texts. I am not sure I follow your point here. Is the last sentence incomplete or is it supposed to be "There does not seem to be a semantic distinction ..."? In mantreSu karmANi kavayo yAny apazyan, the object of the action signified by pa;s is karmANi, not mantrAn. So, there is no scope for the mantrad.r;s notion anyway. In the first sentence, is it contextually clear that the verses produced are always mantra? Even if they all turn out to be mantras, as long as the introductory sentences are not something like tad etat pazyan RSir (mantram) dadar;sa/apa;syat (in the place of verbs like uvaaca), how would we get a truly relevant example? A study of the larger context may bring to light a distinction even in the case of the passages you cite, namely, in "darzam hi vizvadarzatam darzam ratham adhi kSami", "ko dadarza pratha[ma?]m jAyamAnam", "apazyam gopAm anipadyamAnam", "apazyam grAmam vahamAnam", "apazyam tvA manasA cekitAnam" etc. *For example,* could the choice of the root not be dictated, at least to some extent, by the kind of object that was seen or the suggestion that the expected/unexpected happened? I have not had the time to study the larger contexts, but what you cite makes me wonder if we really have the minimal pairs we would need to be sure that the root choice is dictated by no element other than the (contextually required, I suppose) verbal ending. Finally, if the 'pa;s : d.r;s' distinction were to be seen as rooted in an 'on-going process .. : sense of achievement ...' distinction (I am not attributing this position to you), it would not be irreconcilable with my (b) and (c) distinctions. Anyway, I have enjoyed this opportunity to go deeper into an issue I mentioned incidentally in my paper "Veda revelation according to Bhart.r-hari" that is expected to be published in the proceedings of the international seminar on BH organized by Motilal Banarsidass about two years ago. ashok From pf at CIX.CO.UK Sun Oct 15 09:15:00 2006 From: pf at CIX.CO.UK (Peter Flugel) Date: Sun, 15 Oct 06 10:15:00 +0100 Subject: kakSIvat in matsya purANa In-Reply-To: <4531816E.4050309@adelphia.net> Message-ID: <161227078479.23782.5088277264577761004.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Dear Jonardon, Thank you for this. Maybe a subtitle containing the word Jain would be useful. Very hectic days here. I trust Liverpool feels just the same. yours Peter From jonardon at LIVERPOOL.AC.UK Sun Oct 15 10:59:54 2006 From: jonardon at LIVERPOOL.AC.UK (Jonardon Ganeri) Date: Sun, 15 Oct 06 11:59:54 +0100 Subject: kakSIvat in matsya purANa In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227078481.23782.16291098816133794333.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Yes, hectic here too. For a subtitle how about "The Jains in Early Modern India" See you soon Jonardon On 15 Oct 2006, at 10:15, Peter Flugel wrote: Dear Jonardon, Thank you for this. Maybe a subtitle containing the word Jain would be useful. Very hectic days here. I trust Liverpool feels just the same. yours Peter From mmdesh at UMICH.EDU Mon Oct 16 01:22:59 2006 From: mmdesh at UMICH.EDU (Deshpande, Madhav) Date: Sun, 15 Oct 06 21:22:59 -0400 Subject: Grammar. Philosophy and Epistemology Message-ID: <161227078485.23782.8257824454137574545.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Thanks, Ashok, for further stimulating discussion. There may indeed be points of convergence with what you are saying. However, having written a rather long article that I referred to in my previous email, I am sure the complexities of the issue are beyond being discussed in emails. There is a rather a long history of discussions of suppletion that I have discussed in my article, as well as some elucidation of the verbal semantics in terms of modern theories of aspectual distinctions by linguists like Dowty and others. That extensive discussion cannot be summarized in emails. I am looking forward to reading your article in the Motilal Banarsidass volume on Bhartrhari which is long overdue. I also have an article in the same volume, and I hope the volume appears soon. Madhav -----Original Message----- From: Indology on behalf of Ashok Aklujkar Sent: Sun 10/15/2006 10:20 AM To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Subject: Re: Grammar. Philosophy and Epistemology Thanks, Madhav. As point no. 8 in my last post clarifies, I was not arguing for the acceptance of a specific semantic distinction, only for the position that there must be a distinction. I am open to specifications of distinction different from the ones I have come up with. If you think that the nouns vipassanA/vipazyanA and dassana/darzana contain, respectively, the element 'an on-going process without a necessary conclusive moment of culmination' and the element 'a sense of achievement culminating a conclusive moment,' why should we not associate the elements respectively with the roots in the nouns, namely with pa;s/pa;sya and d.r;s? Certainly the mutually differing elements cannot be associated with the suffix anaa/ana. The association of elements with the roots would be just another way of saying that their connotations differ -- that they have a semantic distinction. If one root has only imperfective semantics and the other only perfective semantics, should there not be something in their meanings that is conducive to the emergence of neat alliances, respectively, with verbal suffixes signifying "on-going processes without a necessary conclusive moment of culmination" and with verbal suffixes signifying "a sense of achievement culminating a conclusive moment"? Also, are the alliances really neat? How do we account for the perfective element in the form paspa;se quoted by Mayrfofer or in the past participle spa.s.ta? (Alternatively, could we be reading 'an on-going process' element in vipassanA/vipazyanA and 'a sense of achievement' element in dassana/darzana because we associated imperfective semantics with the finite verbs derived from pa;s and perfective semantics with the finite verbs derived from d.r;s or because we know that vipassanaa, being associated primarily with Theravaada Buddhism, should have no conclusion/implication of achievement? Actually, both vipassanaa and dar;sana, being action nouns, should not lose the 'on-going process' element.) You write: > for mantradRz being different from any relation to pazya, note many > Brahmana/Upanishad passages describing how a certain sage produced a certain > verse: tad etat pazyan RSir uvAca, or mantreSu karmANi kavayo yAny apazyan. > There does not seem to be as contrastive a semantic distinction between pazya > and dRz in these texts. I am not sure I follow your point here. Is the last sentence incomplete or is it supposed to be "There does not seem to be a semantic distinction ..."? In mantreSu karmANi kavayo yAny apazyan, the object of the action signified by pa;s is karmANi, not mantrAn. So, there is no scope for the mantrad.r;s notion anyway. In the first sentence, is it contextually clear that the verses produced are always mantra? Even if they all turn out to be mantras, as long as the introductory sentences are not something like tad etat pazyan RSir (mantram) dadar;sa/apa;syat (in the place of verbs like uvaaca), how would we get a truly relevant example? A study of the larger context may bring to light a distinction even in the case of the passages you cite, namely, in "darzam hi vizvadarzatam darzam ratham adhi kSami", "ko dadarza pratha[ma?]m jAyamAnam", "apazyam gopAm anipadyamAnam", "apazyam grAmam vahamAnam", "apazyam tvA manasA cekitAnam" etc. *For example,* could the choice of the root not be dictated, at least to some extent, by the kind of object that was seen or the suggestion that the expected/unexpected happened? I have not had the time to study the larger contexts, but what you cite makes me wonder if we really have the minimal pairs we would need to be sure that the root choice is dictated by no element other than the (contextually required, I suppose) verbal ending. Finally, if the 'pa;s : d.r;s' distinction were to be seen as rooted in an 'on-going process .. : sense of achievement ...' distinction (I am not attributing this position to you), it would not be irreconcilable with my (b) and (c) distinctions. Anyway, I have enjoyed this opportunity to go deeper into an issue I mentioned incidentally in my paper "Veda revelation according to Bhart.r-hari" that is expected to be published in the proceedings of the international seminar on BH organized by Motilal Banarsidass about two years ago. ashok From acollins at GCI.NET Mon Oct 16 05:55:08 2006 From: acollins at GCI.NET (Alfred Collins) Date: Sun, 15 Oct 06 21:55:08 -0800 Subject: roots for binding and release in the RV Message-ID: <161227078489.23782.15521602606076548120.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Many years ago I began a project that I never completed on these concepts as they applied to 1) creation/emission of the world, 2) poetic speech, 3) the opening of the atmosphere (antariksa), day, and year in sacrifice, 4) Indra's opening of Vala, the cow-stalls, etc. 5) Vrtra's binding, and so on. The idea, which generated many sheets of examples, was to cover the most important roots that named these ideas (vr, ubj, si/sa, bandh, srj, srath, muc, dar, etc.), including verbal and nominal forms. The aim is mainly to get a sense of the semantics of the ideas but also how they are expressed grammatically and syntactically. I'm thinking of finishing the project, but am out of date in my knowledge of the literature since around the mid 80's. Gonda and Mayrhofer and their generation (and before) I know pretty well. After that it is spotty. Appreciate references and ideas, including post RV usage (mainly late vedic and epic). Or maybe somebody already did it? Thanks! Al Collins From sanjay.kumar at MAIL.MCGILL.CA Mon Oct 16 03:49:09 2006 From: sanjay.kumar at MAIL.MCGILL.CA (Sanjay Kumar) Date: Sun, 15 Oct 06 23:49:09 -0400 Subject: Grammar. Philosophy and Epistemology Message-ID: <161227078487.23782.14354245107362712870.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Dear all: Harsha Dehejia's comment that "pazya means to see and drz is vision or insight. Seeing does not automatically lead to vision, it requires contemplation" triggered a debate concerning semantics of "dRz" and "pazya. Before discussing the usages of "pazya" that involve contemplative seeing, I propose the following points for consideration: 1. Sanskrit grammarians understood that the meanings of verbs could be fluid (anekArthA hi dhAtavaH). The meaning of a verb or any other word depends on the speaker's intention. They have primary meanings, however, to which secondary meanings (should) relate. 2. The relationship between verbs and their meanings (as shown in PANini's DhAtupATha) could be employed to discover the wider implications of verbs. Thus, the DhAtupATha lists "prekSaNa" (derived from pra+IkS+lyuT) for the meaning of "dRz;" and "darzana" (derived from dRz+lyuT) for the meaning of "IkS." This mutual relationship between "dRz" and "IkS" shows that both the verbs are semantically well matched. The usage of the verb "IkS" therefore, could be crucial in determining the original meaning of "dRz." 3. Both the Gita and the KaThopaniSad use "pazya" and "IkS" interchangeably: parA?ci khAni vyatRNat svayambhUs tasmAt parAn" "pazyati" nAntarAtman. kazcid dhIraH pratyag-AtmAnam "aikSad" AvRtta-cakSur amRtatvam icchan (K.U. 4.1); IkSate yoha-yuktAtma sarvatra-sama-darzanaH. yo mAM pazyati sarvatra sarvaM ca mayi pazyati (Gita 6.29-30). 4. PANini's list of verbs does not include "paz" or "pazya;" according to him, "pazya" is merely a suppletive form of "dRz." While attributing distinct meanings to both forms, we need to consider other verbs also that take suppletive forms, i.e. pA (piba), sthA (tiSTha), and ghrA (jighra) etc. Do the meanings of these verbs and their suppletive forms also differ? 5. Prof. Madhav cited an example of suppletive employment of "pazya" (uta tvaH pazyan na...) that clearly demonstrates that the meanings of "dRz" and "pazya" do not differ; if "zRNvan" and "zRNoti" forms of "zru" are semantically identical to each other, "pazyan" and "dadarza" must also have identical meaning. 6. The DhAtupATha lists several verbs (lokR, locR, lakSa etc.) that denote "darzana." I believe that while verbs implying "darzana" could indicate specific aspects of seeing, "dRz" is a verb that could be used to indicate any and all aspects of seeing. ASTAdhyAyI also corroborates this interpretation (pazyArthaiz cAnAlocane [8.1.25]). 7. I am not sure if the connotations of "dRz" and "pazya" could be differentiated on account of whether the initiative of seeing or being seen rests with the agent or with the object. It is true about the present, present participle, imperative, imperfect, and optative forms of "dRz," because, in these forms, "pazya" replaces "dRz" in the active voice. But, the active voice conjugations (LRT, LiT etc.) and agentive derivatives (draSTR) of "dRz" that do not take "pazya" form indicate that the initiative is presupposed to rest with the agent, not with the object. 8. Studying the tadbhava and the tatsama words can be extremely valuable in detrmining the original connotations of verbs or words. This, however, can also be misleading because words and their meanings are constantly contextualized by the speaker. Thus, vipassanA and dassana could very well be loaded with Buddhist ideology, and may not be helpful at all in our enquiry. The two principles of interpretation - sarva-tantra-siddhAnta and prati-tantra-siddhAnta - must guide hermeneutical enquiries. 9. Prof. Aklujkar, could paspazA, paspaze, spaza, spazTa, and aspazTa be forms of the following two verbs: spaza bAdhana-sparzanayoH (bhvAdi), and spaza grahaNa-saMzleSaNayoH (curAdi)? Although I have not checked Mayrhofer"s work yet, I am not sure why these words cannot be derived from "spaza" roots. In fact, Sanskrit grammarians (KAzikA on PANini 7.2.27, and MAdhavIyAdhAtuvRtti on "spaza") recognize "spaza" verbs as the sources of all these words. Does "pazya" mean to merely "see" an object? Or it includes contemplative seeing also? The UpaniSads often use conjugational or participial forms of "pazya" to indicate both outward and inward (contemplative) acts of seeing: yadA "pazyaH" "pazyate" rukma-varNam (MuNDaka 3.1.3); antaH zarIre jyotirmayo hi zubhro yaM "pazyanti" yatayH kSINadoSAH (MuNDaka 3.1.4); sa etam eva puruSaM brahma tatam "apazyad" idam "adarzam" iti (Aitareya 2.3.13); tatra ko mohaH kaH zoka ekatvam "anupazyataH" (Iza 7). In his commentary on Pata?jali"s YogasUtras, VyAsa also uses "pazya" in both senses: buddhitaH paraM puruSam AkArazIlam vidyA"dibhir vibhaktam "apazyan" kuryAt tatrAtma-buddhiM mohena (2.6); pratyayaM bauddham "anupazyati" (2.20); na ca puruSa-pratyayena buddhi-sattvAtmanA puruSo "dRzyate," puruSa eva taM pratyayaM svAtmAvalambanaM "pazyati" (3.35). Examples from the Gita: divyaM dadAmi te cakSuH pazya me rUpam aizvaram (11.8); sA nizA pazyato muneH (2.69); prakRtyaiv ca karmANi kriyamANAni sarvazaH. yaH pazyati tathAtmAnam akartAraM sa pazyati (13.29); tatraivaM sati kartAram AtmAnaM kevalaM tu yaH. pazyatyakRtabuddhitvAn na sa pazyati durmatiH (18.16). These few examples demonstrate that limiting the meaning of "pazya" to outward seeing alone is unwarranted, and that there is no semantic or etymological difference between these two forms of the same verb. Sanjay Kumar McGill University ________________________________ From: Indology on behalf of Deshpande, Madhav Sent: Sun 15/10/2006 9:22 PM To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Subject: Re: Grammar. Philosophy and Epistemology Thanks, Ashok, for further stimulating discussion. There may indeed be points of convergence with what you are saying. However, having written a rather long article that I referred to in my previous email, I am sure the complexities of the issue are beyond being discussed in emails. There is a rather a long history of discussions of suppletion that I have discussed in my article, as well as some elucidation of the verbal semantics in terms of modern theories of aspectual distinctions by linguists like Dowty and others. That extensive discussion cannot be summarized in emails. I am looking forward to reading your article in the Motilal Banarsidass volume on Bhartrhari which is long overdue. I also have an article in the same volume, and I hope the volume appears soon. Madhav -----Original Message----- From: Indology on behalf of Ashok Aklujkar Sent: Sun 10/15/2006 10:20 AM To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Subject: Re: Grammar. Philosophy and Epistemology Thanks, Madhav. As point no. 8 in my last post clarifies, I was not arguing for the acceptance of a specific semantic distinction, only for the position that there must be a distinction. I am open to specifications of distinction different from the ones I have come up with. If you think that the nouns vipassanA/vipazyanA and dassana/darzana contain, respectively, the element 'an on-going process without a necessary conclusive moment of culmination' and the element 'a sense of achievement culminating a conclusive moment,' why should we not associate the elements respectively with the roots in the nouns, namely with pa;s/pa;sya and d.r;s? Certainly the mutually differing elements cannot be associated with the suffix anaa/ana. The association of elements with the roots would be just another way of saying that their connotations differ -- that they have a semantic distinction. If one root has only imperfective semantics and the other only perfective semantics, should there not be something in their meanings that is conducive to the emergence of neat alliances, respectively, with verbal suffixes signifying "on-going processes without a necessary conclusive moment of culmination" and with verbal suffixes signifying "a sense of achievement culminating a conclusive moment"? Also, are the alliances really neat? How do we account for the perfective element in the form paspa;se quoted by Mayrfofer or in the past participle spa.s.ta? (Alternatively, could we be reading 'an on-going process' element in vipassanA/vipazyanA and 'a sense of achievement' element in dassana/darzana because we associated imperfective semantics with the finite verbs derived from pa;s and perfective semantics with the finite verbs derived from d.r;s or because we know that vipassanaa, being associated primarily with Theravaada Buddhism, should have no conclusion/implication of achievement? Actually, both vipassanaa and dar;sana, being action nouns, should not lose the 'on-going process' element.) You write: > for mantradRz being different from any relation to pazya, note many > Brahmana/Upanishad passages describing how a certain sage produced a certain > verse: tad etat pazyan RSir uvAca, or mantreSu karmANi kavayo yAny apazyan. > There does not seem to be as contrastive a semantic distinction between pazya > and dRz in these texts. I am not sure I follow your point here. Is the last sentence incomplete or is it supposed to be "There does not seem to be a semantic distinction ..."? In mantreSu karmANi kavayo yAny apazyan, the object of the action signified by pa;s is karmANi, not mantrAn. So, there is no scope for the mantrad.r;s notion anyway. In the first sentence, is it contextually clear that the verses produced are always mantra? Even if they all turn out to be mantras, as long as the introductory sentences are not something like tad etat pazyan RSir (mantram) dadar;sa/apa;syat (in the place of verbs like uvaaca), how would we get a truly relevant example? A study of the larger context may bring to light a distinction even in the case of the passages you cite, namely, in "darzam hi vizvadarzatam darzam ratham adhi kSami", "ko dadarza pratha[ma?]m jAyamAnam", "apazyam gopAm anipadyamAnam", "apazyam grAmam vahamAnam", "apazyam tvA manasA cekitAnam" etc. *For example,* could the choice of the root not be dictated, at least to some extent, by the kind of object that was seen or the suggestion that the expected/unexpected happened? I have not had the time to study the larger contexts, but what you cite makes me wonder if we really have the minimal pairs we would need to be sure that the root choice is dictated by no element other than the (contextually required, I suppose) verbal ending. Finally, if the 'pa;s : d.r;s' distinction were to be seen as rooted in an 'on-going process .. : sense of achievement ...' distinction (I am not attributing this position to you), it would not be irreconcilable with my (b) and (c) distinctions. Anyway, I have enjoyed this opportunity to go deeper into an issue I mentioned incidentally in my paper "Veda revelation according to Bhart.r-hari" that is expected to be published in the proceedings of the international seminar on BH organized by Motilal Banarsidass about two years ago. ashok From mmdesh at UMICH.EDU Mon Oct 16 11:21:28 2006 From: mmdesh at UMICH.EDU (Deshpande, Madhav) Date: Mon, 16 Oct 06 07:21:28 -0400 Subject: roots for binding and release in the RV Message-ID: <161227078498.23782.2675202902473415687.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Of some use may be an old article of mine: 1993. "The Changing Grammar of Salvation." Annals of the Bhandarkar Oriental Research Institute, Vols. LXXII-LXXIII, pp. 275-294. Madhav M. Deshpande -----Original Message----- From: Indology on behalf of Alfred Collins Sent: Mon 10/16/2006 1:55 AM To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Subject: roots for binding and release in the RV Many years ago I began a project that I never completed on these concepts as they applied to 1) creation/emission of the world, 2) poetic speech, 3) the opening of the atmosphere (antariksa), day, and year in sacrifice, 4) Indra's opening of Vala, the cow-stalls, etc. 5) Vrtra's binding, and so on. The idea, which generated many sheets of examples, was to cover the most important roots that named these ideas (vr, ubj, si/sa, bandh, srj, srath, muc, dar, etc.), including verbal and nominal forms. The aim is mainly to get a sense of the semantics of the ideas but also how they are expressed grammatically and syntactically. I'm thinking of finishing the project, but am out of date in my knowledge of the literature since around the mid 80's. Gonda and Mayrhofer and their generation (and before) I know pretty well. After that it is spotty. Appreciate references and ideas, including post RV usage (mainly late vedic and epic). Or maybe somebody already did it? Thanks! Al Collins From Peter.Bisschop at ED.AC.UK Mon Oct 16 08:08:54 2006 From: Peter.Bisschop at ED.AC.UK (Peter Bisschop) Date: Mon, 16 Oct 06 09:08:54 +0100 Subject: Ideas of political science in mahakavyas In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227078493.23782.4909889531676214848.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Perhaps a more obvious place to start is the discussion in the opening chapters of Bhaaravi's Kiraataarjuniiya. --- Peter Bisschop Lecturer in Sanskrit Asian Studies University of Edinburgh 7/8 Buccleuch Place Edinburgh EH8 9LW Scotland, U.K. e-mail: Peter.Bisschop at ed.ac.uk phone: +(0)131 650 4174 http://www.asianstudies.ed.ac.uk/staff/bisschop.htm On 13 Oct 2006, at 16:50, Matthew Kapstein wrote: > No doubt the best place to begin now, in order to consider > the interrelationship between kaavya and politics, > is Sheldon Pollock's The Language of the Gods in the World > of Men (University of California Press, 2006). > > Matthew Kapstein > Paris and Chicago From jkirk at SPRO.NET Mon Oct 16 15:27:15 2006 From: jkirk at SPRO.NET (jkirk) Date: Mon, 16 Oct 06 09:27:15 -0600 Subject: roots for binding and release in the RV Message-ID: <161227078502.23782.16883685503505771062.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Good lord! I thought this email was about S&M in the old RV (recreational vehicle) and deleted it before reading. Resembled spam I get occasionally. Horrors. Joanna ----- Original Message ----- From: "Deshpande, Madhav" To: Sent: Monday, October 16, 2006 5:21 AM Subject: Re: roots for binding and release in the RV Of some use may be an old article of mine: 1993. "The Changing Grammar of Salvation." Annals of the Bhandarkar Oriental Research Institute, Vols. LXXII-LXXIII, pp. 275-294. Madhav M. Deshpande -----Original Message----- From: Indology on behalf of Alfred Collins Sent: Mon 10/16/2006 1:55 AM To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Subject: roots for binding and release in the RV Many years ago I began a project that I never completed on these concepts as they applied to 1) creation/emission of the world, 2) poetic speech, 3) the opening of the atmosphere (antariksa), day, and year in sacrifice, 4) Indra's opening of Vala, the cow-stalls, etc. 5) Vrtra's binding, and so on. The idea, which generated many sheets of examples, was to cover the most important roots that named these ideas (vr, ubj, si/sa, bandh, srj, srath, muc, dar, etc.), including verbal and nominal forms. The aim is mainly to get a sense of the semantics of the ideas but also how they are expressed grammatically and syntactically. I'm thinking of finishing the project, but am out of date in my knowledge of the literature since around the mid 80's. Gonda and Mayrhofer and their generation (and before) I know pretty well. After that it is spotty. Appreciate references and ideas, including post RV usage (mainly late vedic and epic). Or maybe somebody already did it? Thanks! Al Collins -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.408 / Virus Database: 268.13.2/472 - Release Date: 10/11/2006 From jkirk at SPRO.NET Mon Oct 16 16:46:24 2006 From: jkirk at SPRO.NET (jkirk) Date: Mon, 16 Oct 06 10:46:24 -0600 Subject: PS--- roots for binding and release in the RV Message-ID: <161227078504.23782.12649112642939543722.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> PS--I referred to the original post, not to Prof Deshpande's. JK =============== > Good lord! I thought this email was about S&M in the old RV (recreational > vehicle) > and deleted it before reading. Resembled spam I get occasionally. > Horrors. > Joanna > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Deshpande, Madhav" > To: > Sent: Monday, October 16, 2006 5:21 AM > Subject: Re: roots for binding and release in the RV > > > Of some use may be an old article of mine: 1993. "The Changing Grammar > of Salvation." Annals of the Bhandarkar Oriental Research Institute, Vols. > LXXII-LXXIII, pp. 275-294. > > Madhav M. Deshpande > > -----Original Message----- > From: Indology on behalf of Alfred Collins > Sent: Mon 10/16/2006 1:55 AM > To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk > Subject: roots for binding and release in the RV > > Many years ago I began a project that I never completed on these concepts > as they applied to 1) creation/emission of the world, 2) poetic speech, 3) > the opening of the atmosphere (antariksa), day, and year in sacrifice, 4) > Indra's opening of Vala, the cow-stalls, etc. 5) Vrtra's binding, and so > on. > The idea, which generated many sheets of examples, was to cover the most > important roots that named these ideas (vr, ubj, si/sa, bandh, srj, srath, > muc, dar, etc.), including verbal and nominal forms. The aim is mainly to > get a sense of the semantics of the ideas but also how they are expressed > grammatically and syntactically. I'm thinking of finishing the project, > but am out of date in my knowledge of the literature since around the mid > 80's. Gonda and Mayrhofer and their generation (and before) I know pretty > well. After that it is spotty. Appreciate references and ideas, including > post RV usage (mainly late vedic and epic). Or maybe somebody already did > it? > Thanks! > Al Collins > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.1.408 / Virus Database: 268.13.2/472 - Release Date: 10/11/2006 > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.1.408 / Virus Database: 268.13.2/472 - Release Date: 10/11/2006 > > From acollins at GCI.NET Mon Oct 16 21:22:02 2006 From: acollins at GCI.NET (Alfred Collins) Date: Mon, 16 Oct 06 13:22:02 -0800 Subject: prehistory of release/bondage terms (NOT S & M!) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227078519.23782.18306222154350192640.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Professor Despande, Thank you for the reference. I will try to look it up on JSTOR. If I fail, would it be possible for you to send a copy via email attachment? Just as bona fides I wrote an article partly on this in the Journal of Indo-European Studies in 1975 (Reflections of RV X.129, vol 3, pp271-281). My interest now is in middle ground concepts mediating or bridging the gap between states of ignorance/suffering and enlightenment/release. The thought on RV concepts is that midspace in vedic cosmogony/cosmology may be such a bridge. Obviously too much to cover here, but I am giving a talk on the idea in the yoga literature at the DANAM meeting in DC in a few weeks. As to the S&M reaction, (raising my right hand) I am not and never have been a member of any Hindutva or anti-Hindutva party, so help me .......(fill in the blank). Al Collins, Ph.D. From gruenen at MAIL.SUB.UNI-GOETTINGEN.DE Mon Oct 16 12:28:50 2006 From: gruenen at MAIL.SUB.UNI-GOETTINGEN.DE (gruenendahl) Date: Mon, 16 Oct 06 14:28:50 +0200 Subject: Ideas of political science in mahakavyas In-Reply-To: <965fdc5f0610160312h1fc672d3qb477e7be67b2493d@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <161227078500.23782.1077957647447251515.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> This may also be of interest: The political ideas in the Pancamahakavyas / Mirasdar, Mangala Delhi : Eastern Book Linkers, 1995; XIX, 348 pp. Also: Poona, Univ., Diss., 1983 ISBN: 81-8633910-8 Regards Reinhold Gr?nendahl ******************************************************************** Dr. Reinhold Gruenendahl Niedersaechsische Staats- und Universitaetsbibliothek Fachreferat sued- und suedostasiatische Philologien (Dept. of Indology) 37070 Goettingen, Germany Tel (+49) (0)5 51 / 39 52 83 Fax (+49) (0)5 51 / 39 23 61 gruenen at mail.sub.uni-goettingen.de FACH-INFORMATIONEN INDOLOGIE, GOETTINGEN: http://www.sub.uni-goettingen.de/ebene_1/fiindolo/fiindolo.htm In English: http://www.sub.uni-goettingen.de/ebene_1/fiindolo/fiindole.htm GRETIL - Goettingen Register of Electronic Texts in Indian Languages http://www.sub.uni-goettingen.de/ebene_1/fiindolo/gretil.htm From magier at COLUMBIA.EDU Mon Oct 16 19:02:29 2006 From: magier at COLUMBIA.EDU (David Magier) Date: Mon, 16 Oct 06 15:02:29 -0400 Subject: Sanskrit teaching at Cambridge to end In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227078517.23782.14568574975022446804.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> the historic versions of that webpage can be viewed on the Internet Archives WayBackMachine at: Google's cached version of the page is (currently) available at: http://www.google.com/search?q=cache:xcFyYby-ttcJ:www.oriental.cam.ac.uk/south_asia2.html David Magier --On Monday, October 16, 2006 7:40 PM +0100 Dominik Wujastyk wrote: > It is shocking to note the closing of the Tripos in Sanskrit and Hindi at > the University of Cambridge (U.K.). > > This announcement follows the award of an honorary degree to Dr Manmohan > Singh, the Prime Minister of India. > > For news items see the following links: > > http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/articleshow/2161235.cms > http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/articleshow/2169788.cms > and > http://www.ndtv.com/morenews/showmorestory.asp?category=National&slug=PM+ > receives+doctorate+from+Cambridge&id=94638 > > > The Cambridge university website that used to announce the Sanskrit > course has been deleted. It was > http://www.oriental.cam.ac.uk/south_asia2.html > > It used to begin as follows: > > ------------ cut -------------- > South Asian Studies > Undergraduate Programme > > General > > Our four-year BA Honours degree provides students with the opportunity of > studying Hindi or Sanskrit or both languages combined, and then to > explore the literature, history and religion of the subcontinent through > an array of texts, from the Rigveda to the epics and classical > literature, religion and philosophy for students of Sanskrit, and from > nineteenth-century plays to contemporary autobiographies for students of > Hindi. > > We offer a range of courses, from spoken Hindi to Indian history and > historiography, from Indian epics to Sanskrit linguistics. Our aim is to > give students a thorough grounding in their language of choice in the > first two years and a broad introduction to Indian culture, religion and > history. > > The year abroad gives Hindi students an exciting chance to experience > day-to-day life in India, improve their language and meet Indian > students. The final part of the programme involves a wider range of > course options, the possibility of studying Pali, Prakrit, Urdu, > Rajasthani and Bengali, and the chance to study subjects more in depth. > Students also get the chance of writing a dissertation on a topic which > particularly interests them, using sources in the language they have > studied. > ------------ cut -------------- > > The first professor of Sanskrit at Cambridge (1867 to 1903) was E. B. > Cowell (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edward_Byles_Cowell), who moved > there from his post at University College London. > > On Cowell's death in 1903, his former pupil Cecil Bendall (1856-1906) was > elected professor of Sanskrit and was made honorary fellow of Caius in > 1905. (Bendall was at also UCL before going to Cambridge.) > > Bendall collaborated in research with W. H. D. Rouse (1863-1950), who > taught Sanskrit at Cambridge for thirty years From Cowell's death in 1903 > to 1939, Rouse was university teacher of Sanskrit at Cambridge to > candidates for the Indian Civil Service. > http://www.oxforddnb.com/view/article/35849. > > More recent past professors of Sanskrit at Cambridge included Prof. > Harold Bailey (1899-1996) from 1936, and Prof. John Brough (1917-1984) > from 1967. After Brough, the Cambridge chair of Sanskrit was abolished. > > Sanskrit is currently taught by Readers Dr John Smith and Dr Eivind Kahrs. > > Bailey's library is still available at the India and Iran Trust in > Cambridge (http://www.asiamap.ac.uk/collections/collection.php?ID=49). > Obituary: Sir Harold Bailey 1899-1996 Nicholas Sims-Williams, George > Hewitt Bulletin of the School of Oriental and African Studies, University > of London, Vol. 60, No. 1 (1997), pp. 109-116. Brough: Bulletin of the > School of Oriental and African Studies, University of London, Vol. 48, > No. 2. (1985), pp. 333-339. His materials at Cambridge: > http://www.oriental.cam.ac.uk/archive/brough.html. From veerankp at GMAIL.COM Mon Oct 16 10:12:11 2006 From: veerankp at GMAIL.COM (veeranarayana Pandurangi) Date: Mon, 16 Oct 06 15:42:11 +0530 Subject: Ideas of political science in mahakavyas In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227078495.23782.18402882562729143609.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> thanks for Matthew Kapstein and Peter Bisschop for their replies. veeranarayana On 10/16/06, Peter Bisschop wrote: > Perhaps a more obvious place to start is the discussion in the > opening chapters of Bhaaravi's Kiraataarjuniiya. > > --- > Peter Bisschop > Lecturer in Sanskrit > Asian Studies > University of Edinburgh > 7/8 Buccleuch Place > Edinburgh EH8 9LW > Scotland, U.K. > > e-mail: Peter.Bisschop at ed.ac.uk > phone: +(0)131 650 4174 > http://www.asianstudies.ed.ac.uk/staff/bisschop.htm > > > On 13 Oct 2006, at 16:50, Matthew Kapstein wrote: > > > No doubt the best place to begin now, in order to consider > > the interrelationship between kaavya and politics, > > is Sheldon Pollock's The Language of the Gods in the World > > of Men (University of California Press, 2006). > > > > Matthew Kapstein > > Paris and Chicago > -- V.N.K.Pandurangi Head, Dept of Darshan, Yoganandacharya Bhavan, Jagadguru Ramanandacharya Rajsthan Sanskrita University, Madau, post Bhankrota, Jaipur, 302026. From ucgadkw at UCL.AC.UK Mon Oct 16 17:07:19 2006 From: ucgadkw at UCL.AC.UK (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Mon, 16 Oct 06 18:07:19 +0100 Subject: Sanskrit position advertised at Brown University Message-ID: <161227078506.23782.1099545054997090211.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> See http://www.brown.edu/Departments/Classics/sanskritposition.htm for the full announcement. Abstract: The Department of Classics at Brown University has been authorized to announce a search for the Das Professor of Sanskrit. The Das Professor will teach Sanskrit language as well as courses in translation, and we anticipate that he or she will establish connections with other colleagues and units at Brown focused on South Asia and on the ancient world. Prerequisites for consideration include distinction in scholarship and teaching in any aspect of Sanskrit language and literature and the cultures of South Asia associated therewith. Candidates should submit a letter of application and a curriculum vitae, including the names and contact information of at least five references. Applications should be sent, preferably by November 1, 2006, to: Chair of the Sanskrit Search Committee, Department of Classics, Brown University, Providence, RI 02912, USA. Review of applications will begin immediately and continue until the position is filled or closed. Finalists will be invited to campus for interviews early in 2007. Inquiries may be directed to John_Bodel at brown.edu. Brown University is committed to diversity in its faculty and encourages applications from qualified women and under-represented minority candidates. Brown University | Department of Classics | Macfarlane House, 48 College Street, Providence, RI 02912 General Info: 401-863-2123 | Fax: 401-863-7484 | Email: Classics_Department at brown.edu From ucgadkw at UCL.AC.UK Mon Oct 16 17:08:35 2006 From: ucgadkw at UCL.AC.UK (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Mon, 16 Oct 06 18:08:35 +0100 Subject: Sanskrit position advertised at Cornell Message-ID: <161227078509.23782.3675215088171189323.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Full details at: http://lrc.cornell.edu/asian/highlights_opps/employment/sanskrit Abstract: The Department of Asian Studies at Cornell University invites applications for a tenure-track appointment in Sanskrit at the assistant professor level. Duties include teaching classical Sanskrit, with an emphasis on intermediate and advanced instruction, as well as undergraduate and graduate courses in South Asian religions, literature, and/or intellectual history. We seek a colleague who will complement faculty strengths in Asian Religions and other graduate fields, the Department of Asian Studies, and Cornell?s South Asia Program. Ph.D. required at time of appointment. Review of applications will begin October 20, 2006. Send letter of application, curriculum vitae, three letters of reference, and writing sample to: Chair, Sanskrit Search Committee Cornell University Department of Asian Studies 350 Rockefeller Hall Ithaca, NY 14853-2502 asian at cornell.edu Cornell University is an Equal Opportunity Employer. Women and minorities are encouraged to apply. From ucgadkw at UCL.AC.UK Mon Oct 16 17:15:28 2006 From: ucgadkw at UCL.AC.UK (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Mon, 16 Oct 06 18:15:28 +0100 Subject: Sanskrit advertised in Pune (date passed) Message-ID: <161227078511.23782.3661415981000189542.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> I've only just discovered this. I'm afraid the date has passed. -- Full detail: http://www.unipune.ernet.in/advt/Advt_RA_Sanskrit.pdf -- Applications are invited for four tenure positions of Research Associateships for post - doctoral research, in Centre of Advanced Study in Sanskrit, (CASS) University of Pune. These Associateships are purely temporary and are given on contract basis initially for three years and extendable for two more years only. The Research Associates are required to carry out work assigned to them by the CASS over and above their individuals research work. The applicants should have training in and aptitude for multi - disciplinary research. No. of posts - Four (04) Reservation - Open -1, S.C.-1, S.T.-1, D.T. (A)-1 Pay Scale - Rs.8000-275-13500 Age limit - Not less than 30 years of age and unless already in the service of the Universities or affiliated colleges, not more than 40 years of age. Essential Qualification - M.A. and Ph.D. in Sanskrit/Linguistics/Philosophy. Desirable - Specialization in any one of the following:- 1. Veda and Comparative Mythology 2. Vyakarana and Modern Linguistics 3. Nyaya and Western Logic and Philosophy 4. Mimamsa and Hermeneutics 5. Sanskrit and Natural Language Processing 6. Sanskrit and Physical Sciences 7. Sanskrit and Social Sciences and Value Education Application forms are available during office hours in Publication Section, University of Pune on payment of Rs. 50/- in cash or by sending IPO/D.D. of Nationalized Bank drawn in favour of the Registrar, University of Pune, Pune - 411 007, payable at Pune along with self addressed envelop (23cm x 40cm) stamped Rs.10/-. Applications (Five copies) giving complete bio-data, including area of specialization, publication and experience if any and a brief outline of research to be undertaken should reach to the Registrar, University of Pune on or before 07 October, 2006. Advt. No. Dr.D.D.Deshmukh Date : REGISTRAR From ucgadkw at UCL.AC.UK Mon Oct 16 17:17:48 2006 From: ucgadkw at UCL.AC.UK (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Mon, 16 Oct 06 18:17:48 +0100 Subject: passed Sanskrit job adverts at Rashtriya Sanskrit Sansthan, Delhi Message-ID: <161227078513.23782.8029849383963000645.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Just for general interest, there were some Skt jobs advertised in Delhi at the beginning of the year: http://www.sanskrit.nic.in/adver.htm From ucgadkw at UCL.AC.UK Mon Oct 16 18:40:37 2006 From: ucgadkw at UCL.AC.UK (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Mon, 16 Oct 06 19:40:37 +0100 Subject: Sanskrit teaching at Cambridge to end Message-ID: <161227078515.23782.7416057701469891639.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> It is shocking to note the closing of the Tripos in Sanskrit and Hindi at the University of Cambridge (U.K.). This announcement follows the award of an honorary degree to Dr Manmohan Singh, the Prime Minister of India. For news items see the following links: http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/articleshow/2161235.cms http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/articleshow/2169788.cms and http://www.ndtv.com/morenews/showmorestory.asp?category=National&slug=PM+receives+doctorate+from+Cambridge&id=94638 The Cambridge university website that used to announce the Sanskrit course has been deleted. It was http://www.oriental.cam.ac.uk/south_asia2.html It used to begin as follows: ------------ cut -------------- South Asian Studies Undergraduate Programme General Our four-year BA Honours degree provides students with the opportunity of studying Hindi or Sanskrit or both languages combined, and then to explore the literature, history and religion of the subcontinent through an array of texts, from the Rigveda to the epics and classical literature, religion and philosophy for students of Sanskrit, and from nineteenth-century plays to contemporary autobiographies for students of Hindi. We offer a range of courses, from spoken Hindi to Indian history and historiography, from Indian epics to Sanskrit linguistics. Our aim is to give students a thorough grounding in their language of choice in the first two years and a broad introduction to Indian culture, religion and history. The year abroad gives Hindi students an exciting chance to experience day-to-day life in India, improve their language and meet Indian students. The final part of the programme involves a wider range of course options, the possibility of studying Pali, Prakrit, Urdu, Rajasthani and Bengali, and the chance to study subjects more in depth. Students also get the chance of writing a dissertation on a topic which particularly interests them, using sources in the language they have studied. ------------ cut -------------- The first professor of Sanskrit at Cambridge (1867 to 1903) was E. B. Cowell (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edward_Byles_Cowell), who moved there from his post at University College London. On Cowell's death in 1903, his former pupil Cecil Bendall (1856-1906) was elected professor of Sanskrit and was made honorary fellow of Caius in 1905. (Bendall was at also UCL before going to Cambridge.) Bendall collaborated in research with W. H. D. Rouse (1863-1950), who taught Sanskrit at Cambridge for thirty years From Cowell's death in 1903 to 1939, Rouse was university teacher of Sanskrit at Cambridge to candidates for the Indian Civil Service. http://www.oxforddnb.com/view/article/35849. More recent past professors of Sanskrit at Cambridge included Prof. Harold Bailey (1899-1996) from 1936, and Prof. John Brough (1917-1984) from 1967. After Brough, the Cambridge chair of Sanskrit was abolished. Sanskrit is currently taught by Readers Dr John Smith and Dr Eivind Kahrs. Bailey's library is still available at the India and Iran Trust in Cambridge (http://www.asiamap.ac.uk/collections/collection.php?ID=49). Obituary: Sir Harold Bailey 1899-1996 Nicholas Sims-Williams, George Hewitt Bulletin of the School of Oriental and African Studies, University of London, Vol. 60, No. 1 (1997), pp. 109-116. Brough: Bulletin of the School of Oriental and African Studies, University of London, Vol. 48, No. 2. (1985), pp. 333-339. His materials at Cambridge: http://www.oriental.cam.ac.uk/archive/brough.html. From tbt7 at COLUMBIA.EDU Tue Oct 17 03:58:36 2006 From: tbt7 at COLUMBIA.EDU (Tenzin Bob Thurman) Date: Mon, 16 Oct 06 23:58:36 -0400 Subject: Sanskrit teaching at Cambridge to end In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227078522.23782.5951728509668020229.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> This is truly shocking. And the chair abolished since the time of Brough! Who makes such decisions? OIs there anything good that letters from outside could accomplish? Anyone in authority who would care about the disgrace of a major university in this world abandoning the study of Sanskrit? RAFT Dominik Wujastyk wrote: > It is shocking to note the closing of the Tripos in Sanskrit and Hindi > at the University of Cambridge (U.K.). > > This announcement follows the award of an honorary degree to Dr > Manmohan Singh, the Prime Minister of India. > > For news items see the following links: > > http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/articleshow/2161235.cms > http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/articleshow/2169788.cms > and > http://www.ndtv.com/morenews/showmorestory.asp?category=National&slug=PM+receives+doctorate+from+Cambridge&id=94638 > > > > The Cambridge university website that used to announce the Sanskrit > course has been deleted. It was > http://www.oriental.cam.ac.uk/south_asia2.html > > It used to begin as follows: > > ------------ cut -------------- > South Asian Studies > Undergraduate Programme > > General > > Our four-year BA Honours degree provides students with the opportunity > of studying Hindi or Sanskrit or both languages combined, and then to > explore the literature, history and religion of the subcontinent > through an array of texts, from the Rigveda to the epics and classical > literature, religion and philosophy for students of Sanskrit, and from > nineteenth-century plays to contemporary autobiographies for students > of Hindi. > > We offer a range of courses, from spoken Hindi to Indian history and > historiography, from Indian epics to Sanskrit linguistics. Our aim is > to give students a thorough grounding in their language of choice in > the first two years and a broad introduction to Indian culture, > religion and history. > > The year abroad gives Hindi students an exciting chance to experience > day-to-day life in India, improve their language and meet Indian > students. The final part of the programme involves a wider range of > course options, the possibility of studying Pali, Prakrit, Urdu, > Rajasthani and Bengali, and the chance to study subjects more in > depth. Students also get the chance of writing a dissertation on a > topic which particularly interests them, using sources in the language > they have studied. > ------------ cut -------------- > > The first professor of Sanskrit at Cambridge (1867 to 1903) was E. B. > Cowell (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edward_Byles_Cowell), who > moved there from his post at University College London. > > On Cowell's death in 1903, his former pupil Cecil Bendall (1856-1906) > was elected professor of Sanskrit and was made honorary fellow of > Caius in 1905. (Bendall was at also UCL before going to Cambridge.) > > Bendall collaborated in research with W. H. D. Rouse (1863-1950), who > taught Sanskrit at Cambridge for thirty years From Cowell's death in > 1903 to 1939, Rouse was university teacher of Sanskrit at Cambridge to > candidates for the Indian Civil Service. > http://www.oxforddnb.com/view/article/35849. > > More recent past professors of Sanskrit at Cambridge included Prof. > Harold Bailey (1899-1996) from 1936, and Prof. John Brough (1917-1984) > from 1967. After Brough, the Cambridge chair of Sanskrit was abolished. > > Sanskrit is currently taught by Readers Dr John Smith and Dr Eivind > Kahrs. > > Bailey's library is still available at the India and Iran Trust in > Cambridge (http://www.asiamap.ac.uk/collections/collection.php?ID=49). > Obituary: Sir Harold Bailey 1899-1996 Nicholas Sims-Williams, George > Hewitt Bulletin of the School of Oriental and African Studies, > University of London, Vol. 60, No. 1 (1997), pp. 109-116. Brough: > Bulletin of the School of Oriental and African Studies, University of > London, Vol. 48, No. 2. (1985), pp. 333-339. His materials at > Cambridge: http://www.oriental.cam.ac.uk/archive/brough.html. > From jonathan.edelmann at THEOLOGY.OXFORD.AC.UK Wed Oct 18 09:52:04 2006 From: jonathan.edelmann at THEOLOGY.OXFORD.AC.UK (Jonathan Edelmann) Date: Wed, 18 Oct 06 10:52:04 +0100 Subject: Critical Edition of Bhagavata Message-ID: <161227078524.23782.1936767816151689878.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> I would like to thank everyone for their very helpful suggestions. Most sincerely, Jonathan Edelmann PhD Student Oxford University From baums at U.WASHINGTON.EDU Wed Oct 18 19:08:06 2006 From: baums at U.WASHINGTON.EDU (Stefan Baums) Date: Wed, 18 Oct 06 12:08:06 -0700 Subject: Ancient Buddhist Scrolls from Gandhara In-Reply-To: <02ef01c6f2db$7f2cf450$ce047257@zen> Message-ID: <161227078530.23782.7866708764555569806.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Dear Stephen, the Dho?a s?tra has since been edited by Mark Allon in: Mark Allon, 2001. Three G?ndh?r? Ekottarik?gama?type s?tras: British Library Kharo??h? fragments 12 and 14. Seattle: University of Washington Press. (Gandh?ran Buddhist texts, volume 2.) http://www.washington.edu/uwpress/search/books/ALLTHR.html I?ll send you the edited text and the translation (three pages) offlist later today. Best wishes, Stefan -- Stefan Baums Asian Languages and Literature University of Washington From acollins at GCI.NET Thu Oct 19 00:40:40 2006 From: acollins at GCI.NET (Alfred Collins) Date: Wed, 18 Oct 06 16:40:40 -0800 Subject: Dr. V. Raghavan students? In-Reply-To: <453454EC.20303@columbia.edu> Message-ID: <161227078534.23782.706421350986410955.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> It occurred to me that this list might be a way to get in touch with two fellow students of Dr. Raghavan in Madras in 1972-73 when I was there on a Fullbright. Mainly I was studying Vedanta with T.M.P. Mahadevan, and at that point Dr. Raghavan had "retired." Two students from Japan, both primarily Buddhist scholars, were doing Vedanta also, but at the same time the three of us were meeting three mornings a week privately on Dr. Raghavan's front porch to do dharmasastra. The Japanese students were named Watase and Kamimura. Information on them would be appreciated. Al Collins From s.hodge at PADMACHOLING.PLUS.COM Wed Oct 18 17:33:16 2006 From: s.hodge at PADMACHOLING.PLUS.COM (Stephen Hodge) Date: Wed, 18 Oct 06 18:33:16 +0100 Subject: Ancient Buddhist Scrolls from Gandhara Message-ID: <161227078526.23782.5267545911002605407.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Dear colleagues, Does anybody have a copy of Salomon's Ancient Buddhist Scrolls from Gandhara to hand from which they could scan and send me the edited text of the Dona Sutra and its translation ? I think it would be little more than two pages at most. I would be most grateful for this favour. Best wishes, Stephen Hodge From ucgadkw at UCL.AC.UK Wed Oct 18 18:37:54 2006 From: ucgadkw at UCL.AC.UK (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Wed, 18 Oct 06 19:37:54 +0100 Subject: Phone cameras [was Re: Ancient Buddhist Scrolls from Gandhara] In-Reply-To: <02ef01c6f2db$7f2cf450$ce047257@zen> Message-ID: <161227078528.23782.15005010586444546995.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> just a footnote, regarding ways of doing this sort of thing conveniently. I have a mobile phone that contains a 2 megapixel camera. It isn't even a very recent phone (Sony-Ericsson K750i). But the camera is good enough to snap a page of print and produce an image that is as good as a photocopy. And in colour. I can send the picture to my laptop for printing, emailing, etc. It's all very convenient. Now, if I could only use it in libraries .... But sorry, Stephen, I don't have Rich's book to hand. D On Wed, 18 Oct 2006, Stephen Hodge wrote: > Dear colleagues, > > Does anybody have a copy of Salomon's Ancient Buddhist Scrolls from Gandhara > to hand from which they could scan and send me the edited text of the Dona > Sutra and its translation ? I think it would be little more than two pages > at most. I would be most grateful for this favour. > > Best wishes, > Stephen Hodge From s.hodge at PADMACHOLING.PLUS.COM Wed Oct 18 19:36:02 2006 From: s.hodge at PADMACHOLING.PLUS.COM (Stephen Hodge) Date: Wed, 18 Oct 06 20:36:02 +0100 Subject: Ancient Buddhist Scrolls from Gandhara Message-ID: <161227078532.23782.4551847211172954855.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Dear Stefan, Thanks very much for the help -- it's much appreciated. The pdf arrived safely. Best wishes, Stephen Hodge ----- Original Message ----- From: "Stefan Baums" To: Sent: Wednesday, October 18, 2006 8:08 PM Subject: Re: Ancient Buddhist Scrolls from Gandhara Dear Stephen, the Dho?a s?tra has since been edited by Mark Allon in: Mark Allon, 2001. Three G?ndh?r? Ekottarik?gama?type s?tras: British Library Kharo??h? fragments 12 and 14. Seattle: University of Washington Press. (Gandh?ran Buddhist texts, volume 2.) http://www.washington.edu/uwpress/search/books/ALLTHR.html I?ll send you the edited text and the translation (three pages) offlist later today. Best wishes, Stefan -- Stefan Baums Asian Languages and Literature University of Washington From acollins at GCI.NET Thu Oct 19 20:34:26 2006 From: acollins at GCI.NET (Alfred Collins) Date: Thu, 19 Oct 06 12:34:26 -0800 Subject: Dr. V. Raghavan students? In-Reply-To: <20061019160139.6F1C.HAHN.M@t-online.de> Message-ID: <161227078553.23782.7527461062703112076.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Thank you. We used to play table tennis daily and eat huge beef steaks for a pittance in Madras hotel restaurants. The three of us attended the first World Sanskrit Conference in Delhi and hiked in the foothills around Ranikhet, visited Sanchi, etc. I'm sorry we lost touch. Yes, please give me the address for Watase-sensei (he's obviously achieved great status since I knew him, though I believe he was a priest even then). Sincerely, Al Collins From arganis at TODITO.COM Thu Oct 19 13:18:37 2006 From: arganis at TODITO.COM (Horacio Francisco Arganis Juarez) Date: Thu, 19 Oct 06 13:18:37 +0000 Subject: asking Message-ID: <161227078536.23782.10114138279165323595.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Dearest Professors: I am looking for some of your objetive and professional comments about the quality and seriousness like objectivity of the works like: The Christ Conspirancy: The gratest Story Ever Sold and Suns of God. Krishna, Budha and Chirst unveiledby Acharya S. And other information about that. With my best Wishes Professor Horacio Francisco Arganis- J. M. A. IBCH-IEFAC- U A de C. Saltillo, Coah. Mexico. ___________________________________________________________________ Vende y compra lo que quieras, lareventa.com From pf at CIX.CO.UK Thu Oct 19 15:22:00 2006 From: pf at CIX.CO.UK (Peter Flugel) Date: Thu, 19 Oct 06 16:22:00 +0100 Subject: Advance Conference Announcement: Jainism and Modernity Message-ID: <161227078543.23782.11974099287212828071.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Dear Friends and Colleagues, Please find below the first announcement of next year's 9th Jaina Studies Conference at the London School of Oriental and African Studies (SOAS) on 'Jainism and Modernity' on 21-22 March 2007. The conference will be opened with the Annual Jain Lecture at SOAS which will be delivered by Prof L.A. Babb. Wednesday 21 March 2007 18:00-19:30 Brunei Gallery Lecture Theatre, School of Oriental and African Studies, Russell Square, London WC1H OXG The Annual Jain Lecture (followed by a reception) Prof. Lawrence A. Babb (Amherst College) 'Jainism and the Culture of Trade' The conference is co-organised by the Centre of Jaina Studies at SOAS, the Centre for Theology and Religious Studies at the University of Lund (http://www.sasnet.lu.se/indrellund.html) and the Emmy Noether (DFG) Research Project on Jainism at the University of Heidelberg: http://www.sai.uni-heidelberg.de/abt/kunst/preview/noether.php=20 The conference is free and open to everyone! The conference will welcome sponsorship contributions which will be recognised in the conference programme. Please contact Peter Flugel for more information, on pf8 at soas.ac.uk For updates of the programme see: http://www.soas.ac.uk/centres/centreinfo.cfm?navid=3D875 Inquiries: jainastudies at soas.ac.uk yours Peter Flugel Dr Peter Fluegel Department of the Study of Religions Faculty of Arts and Humanities School of Oriental and African Studies University of London Thornhaugh Street Russell Square London WC1H OXG Tel.: (+44-20) 7898 4776 E-mail: pf8 at soas.ac.uk From hahn.m at T-ONLINE.DE Thu Oct 19 14:27:51 2006 From: hahn.m at T-ONLINE.DE (Michael Hahn) Date: Thu, 19 Oct 06 16:27:51 +0200 Subject: Dr. V. Raghavan students? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227078538.23782.13923079638572876307.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Dear Al, Your two fellow students under Prof. Raghavan in Madras were most likely Katsuhiko Kamimura and Nobuyuki Watase. Kamimura-sensei was a close friend of mine. He taught at the Eastern Institute (founded by Hajime Nakamura) and Tokyo University and was a prolific translator of classical Sanskrit literature into Japanese. He told me that he had studies under Raghavan. Regrettably he died of cancer about three years ago. More details can be given, if required. I don't know Watase-sensei personally. However, the directory of the Japanese Association of Indian and Buddhist Studies mentions him as professor at Tokai University. If required, I can provide you with his address. Regards, Michael Hahn On Wed, 18 Oct 2006 16:40:40 -0800 Alfred Collins wrote: > It occurred to me that this list might be a way to get in touch with two fellow students of Dr. Raghavan in Madras in 1972-73 when I was there on a Fullbright. Mainly I was studying Vedanta with T.M.P. Mahadevan, and at that point Dr. Raghavan had "retired." Two students from Japan, both primarily Buddhist scholars, were doing Vedanta also, but at the same time the three of us were meeting three mornings a week privately on Dr. Raghavan's front porch to do dharmasastra. The Japanese students were named Watase and Kamimura. > > Information on them would be appreciated. > > Al Collins --- Prof. Dr. Michael Hahn Ritterstr. 14 D-35287 Amoeneburg Tel. +49-6422-938963 Fax: +49-6422-938967 E-mail: hahn.m at t-online.de From pf at CIX.CO.UK Thu Oct 19 15:59:00 2006 From: pf at CIX.CO.UK (Peter Flugel) Date: Thu, 19 Oct 06 16:59:00 +0100 Subject: Jain Spirit Scholarship for an MA in Jaina Studies at SOAS 2007/8 Message-ID: <161227078544.23782.7358642869235463948.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Dear Friends and Colleagues, Jain Spirit Scholarship for an MA in Jaina Studies at SOAS 2007/8 This award is sponsored by Jain Spirit. The total value of this scholarship is ?5000, and it is awarded to students registered at SOAS for an MA degree with a major in Jaina Studies. Applications by letter, accompanied by a short CV, should be submitted by e-mail to the Centre of Jaina Studies at the Department of the Study of Religions at SOAS, University of London. Inquiries: jainstudies at soas.ac.uk Dr Peter Fluegel Department of the Study of Religions Faculty of Arts and Humanities School of Oriental and African Studies University of London Thornhaugh Street Russell Square London WC1H OXG Tel.: (+44-20) 7898 4776 E-mail: pf8 at soas.ac.uk http://www.soas.ac.uk/jainastudies From svetlan at BROENDBYBREDBAAND.DK Thu Oct 19 15:01:15 2006 From: svetlan at BROENDBYBREDBAAND.DK (Svetlana Sotskova) Date: Thu, 19 Oct 06 17:01:15 +0200 Subject: Teatise on commentary tradition Message-ID: <161227078541.23782.14639471169371702266.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Dear colleagues, Can anybody help me to find any substantial or any at all teatises on Indian commentary tradition, especially related to Kaavya, or mentioning cases when one commentary looks more like a shorter or simplified version of another. Thank you in advance, Svetlana Sotskova, University of Copenhagen. From pf at CIX.CO.UK Thu Oct 19 16:56:00 2006 From: pf at CIX.CO.UK (Peter Flugel) Date: Thu, 19 Oct 06 17:56:00 +0100 Subject: New Journal: International Journal of Jaina Studies Message-ID: <161227078546.23782.10114487982476852174.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Dear Friends and Collegues, In 2006, the International Journal of Jaina Studies was launched in 2005. It is published online as an open access journal by the Centre of Jaina Studies (CoJS) at the Department of the Study of Religions at SOAS: http://www.soas.ac.uk/ijjs/index.html Hardcopies of the journal will in future be published by the Jain publishers Hindi Grantha Karyalaya in Mumbai: http://www.hindibooks.8m.com/ The CoJS also publishes the new series Advances in Jaina Studies with Routledge: http://www.soas.ac.uk/centres/centreinfo.cfm?navid=1042 Dr Peter Flugel Chair of the Centre for Jaina Studies Department of the Study of Religions Faculty of Arts and Humanities School of Oriental and African Studies University of London Thornhaugh Street Russell Square London WC1H OXG Tel.: +44 (+20) 7898 4776 E-mail: pf8 at soas.ac.uk http://www.soas.ac.uk/jainastudies From ucgadkw at UCL.AC.UK Thu Oct 19 17:02:52 2006 From: ucgadkw at UCL.AC.UK (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Thu, 19 Oct 06 18:02:52 +0100 Subject: Sanskrit teaching at Cambridge to end Message-ID: <161227078549.23782.13535326850631707759.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Dear Bob (and everyone), The current decision to abolish undergraduate Sanskrit teaching was made by officers of Cambridge University's "The Council of the School of Arts and Humanities". I don't know who abolished the chair at the time of Brough's death. I have myself written a letter of shock and protest, and I addressed it to Dr Gordon Johnson, who is currently Director of the Centre for South Asian Studies at Cambridge. See http://www.wolfson.cam.ac.uk/people/ for more info. I believe he can be addressed at Wolfson College Barton Road Cambridge CB3 9BB UK I wrote Dr Johnson because his name is mentioned in the press reports. (I am told that Dr Johnson is a supporter of Sanskrit teaching at Cambridge.) It has been suggested to me by a Cambridge insider that letters of protest will be ineffective at this point, but might be more effective towards the end of the year when attempts will be made to create a new post. However, my own view is that Cambridge's decision is now in the public domain, and that if we wish to respond to the current news, we should do so as we feel moved. We can always write again later. I do feel strongly that authorities at Cambridge should be made aware that their decision to cancel undergraduate teaching has caused a reaction in the international scholarly community. Note that the Centre for South Asian Studies, of which Dr Johnson is Director, is not the same as the Faculty of Oriental Studies, where Sanskrit is ^H^H^H was taught. The Faculty of Oriental Studies website is at http://www.oriental.cam.ac.uk/ but it does not say who is the Chairman of the Faculty Board, nor does it give any details of board members, so it is hard to know to whom to write. The Oriental Faculty's website on languages, http://www.oriental.cam.ac.uk/languages.html has already excised Sanskrit from world history. These people are moving fast! Although I currently live in Cambridge, I am not part of the university, nor involved in teaching or other activities here. To be honest, the organisation of the university is so labyrinthine that it is very hard for an outsider to understand anything, and it is impossible to find the actual names of responsible people. This is probably deliberate. The best information I have been able to put together about the closure of u/g Sanskrit here is as follows: The U of Camb. recently moved over to a new "Resource Allocation Model" (or "RAM": see http://tinyurl.com/ybvmla) whereby (stage one) central funds (quaintly called the "University Chest") are divided between the six university "Schools" on a completely automatic basis, and then (stage two) the chairmen and committees of the schools use the delegated financial authority to decide who will get what. (The six schools are described at http://tinyurl.com/yd5qjw; Sanskrit is taught in the Faculty of Oriental Studies, part of the school called Arts and Humanities.) It was obvious to insiders from the start of RAM planning several years ago that these changes would cause casualties, particularly among "small subjects", and the main RAM report of 2003 (http://tinyurl.com/ybvmla) explicitly mentions, The potential threat of a RAM to minority subjects (particularly in Arts and Humanities) and hence to the shape of the University. This statement is followed by some tangled prose in which a justification is attempted for doing nothing about trying to protect or even influence the acceptability of the academic shape of the university. The RAM Development Group stated that for political and financial reasons, The futility of designing the model to achieve acceptability become apparent. This is an extraordinary admission! To design a major financial system in such a manner that from the outset it is admittedly not fit for purpose in important respects. So nothing was done to mitigate the damage that was inevitable to minority subjects (although I note that item 23. in the Report does mention "Minority Subject Special Funding"). In any case, because of these major changes in funding structures, it is no longer possible for Cambridge University as a whole to have an academic policy, favouring this or that subject area for strategic, academic, or other reasons. All decisions are made on the basis of finance. As the Report states, interestingly, 2. All income is attributed to Schools and institutions 'as earned'. This may not reflect the University's value judgements but it does reflect our true sources of income and avoids arguments about value judgements. This statement seems to me to be a knowing abdication of any committment to guiding or judging the intellectual value of the university's activities. In other words, the University must be run as a profitable business, and must set aside attempts to judge the value of what it does to make money. As far as I can see, the "General Board of the Faculties" is the body responsible for the academic and educational policy of the University, and I do not understand the relationship between this Board and the new power centres of the Schools or the RAM. In any case, Sanskrit is apparently the first casualty of the new system. It has been decided by the officers of the Council of the School of Arts and Humanities (a) that the 1.5 posts in SA History be transferred from the Oriental Faculty to the History Faculty (where there is no guarantee that they will be filled in the SA field); (b) that the vacant Hindi lectureship not be refilled; (c) that the Hindi language instructor be moved to the Centre of SA Studies to do coaching for anthropologists etc., (d) that the two Sanskrit "incumbents" (Smith, Kahrs) be kept on in Oriental Studies (but not in either of the two departments that are being created, Far East and Middle East) till they retire. No undergraduate teaching to be done. Best, Dominik On Mon, 16 Oct 2006, Tenzin Bob Thurman wrote: > This is truly shocking. And the chair abolished since the time of > Brough! Who makes such decisions? OIs there anything good that letters > from outside could accomplish? Anyone in authority who would care about > the disgrace of a major university in this world abandoning the study of > Sanskrit? RAFT From pf at CIX.CO.UK Thu Oct 19 17:03:00 2006 From: pf at CIX.CO.UK (Peter Flugel) Date: Thu, 19 Oct 06 18:03:00 +0100 Subject: New Journal: International Journal of Jaina Studies Message-ID: <161227078551.23782.8899535800704283947.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Dear Friends and Collegues, In 2005, the International Journal of Jaina Studies was launched. It is published online as an open access journal by the Centre of Jaina Studies (CoJS) at the Department of the Study of Religions at SOAS: http://www.soas.ac.uk/ijjs/index.html Hardcopies of the journal will in future be published by the Jain publishers Hindi Grantha Karyalaya in Mumbai: http://www.hindibooks.8m.com/ The CoJS also publishes the new series Advances in Jaina Studies with Routledge: http://www.soas.ac.uk/centres/centreinfo.cfm?navid=1042 Dr Peter Flugel Chair of the Centre for Jaina Studies Department of the Study of Religions Faculty of Arts and Humanities School of Oriental and African Studies University of London Thornhaugh Street Russell Square London WC1H OXG Tel.: +44 (+20) 7898 4776 E-mail: pf8 at soas.ac.uk http://www.soas.ac.uk/jainastudies From hwtull at MSN.COM Fri Oct 20 02:32:17 2006 From: hwtull at MSN.COM (Herman Tull) Date: Thu, 19 Oct 06 22:32:17 -0400 Subject: Sanskrit teaching at Cambridge to end Message-ID: <161227078556.23782.16832603256539491511.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> I, too, live in a town (Princeton, NJ) with a major university (Princeton University) that has allowed its Sanskrit program to dwindle over the years. Long ago, Samuel Atkins was the resident Sanskritist here, replaced by George Dunkel, and followed briefly by Brent Vine. All were members of the Classics Department. Since Vine left, first-year Sanskrit has been offered occasionally, but with little planning or purpose behind the course and without the benefit of a trained Sanskritist (I say this with some first-hand knowledge, since I was twice engaged to teach the course). For those who are not familiar with this institution, Princeton University has vast financial resources (an endowment that exceeds $12 billion dollars, generating more than $1 billion per year in interest income--an amount that actually exceeds its annual budget), an outstanding faculty, and top-notch facilities. New Jersey emphasizes high tech industries and, as a result, has a large population of Americans of South Asian descent; in fact, Indian-Americans are reported to be the fastest growing segment of the population here, currently numbering in the several hundred thousands. While it is galling to me that any major University would ignore India, given the resources here, and the general situation in New Jersey, it is utterly maddening that this University steadfastly ignores Sanskrit (it also ignores Indian studies in general--there are a few stray courses offered, and there is a recently hired Hindi lecturer). But, then, Indologists perhaps have not done a very good job of advertising what they do. I regularly field questions from other faculty members--well-known and well-regarded scholars (often in the sciences)--who refer to my field as "Southeast Asian Studies"; who ask how I learned to type in "Cyrillic"; who wonder what the possible use is of studying a "dead" language; who are shocked when I tell them about the historical connection between Sanskrit and the Indo-European languages. When I begin to explain the benefits for undergraduates in studying one or two years of Sanskrit, of the analytic skills it develops, of the broader linguistic vistas it opens for them, I am generally met with blank stares. To begin to describe the beauty of the Sanskrit language to them, or to describe my enchantment with wrestling with the thoughts of some of the greatest poets, philosophers, and thinkers to have lived on the planet, seems an utterly hopeless task. Herman Tull Non-affiliated scholar Princeton, NJ ----- Original Message ----- From: Dominik Wujastyk To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Sent: Thursday, October 19, 2006 1:02 PM Subject: Re: Sanskrit teaching at Cambridge to end Dear Bob (and everyone), The current decision to abolish undergraduate Sanskrit teaching was made by officers of Cambridge University's "The Council of the School of Arts and Humanities". I don't know who abolished the chair at the time of Brough's death. I have myself written a letter of shock and protest, and I addressed it to Dr Gordon Johnson, who is currently Director of the Centre for South Asian Studies at Cambridge. See http://www.wolfson.cam.ac.uk/people/ for more info. I believe he can be addressed at Wolfson College Barton Road Cambridge CB3 9BB UK I wrote Dr Johnson because his name is mentioned in the press reports. (I am told that Dr Johnson is a supporter of Sanskrit teaching at Cambridge.) It has been suggested to me by a Cambridge insider that letters of protest will be ineffective at this point, but might be more effective towards the end of the year when attempts will be made to create a new post. However, my own view is that Cambridge's decision is now in the public domain, and that if we wish to respond to the current news, we should do so as we feel moved. We can always write again later. I do feel strongly that authorities at Cambridge should be made aware that their decision to cancel undergraduate teaching has caused a reaction in the international scholarly community. Note that the Centre for South Asian Studies, of which Dr Johnson is Director, is not the same as the Faculty of Oriental Studies, where Sanskrit is ^H^H^H was taught. The Faculty of Oriental Studies website is at http://www.oriental.cam.ac.uk/ but it does not say who is the Chairman of the Faculty Board, nor does it give any details of board members, so it is hard to know to whom to write. The Oriental Faculty's website on languages, http://www.oriental.cam.ac.uk/languages.html has already excised Sanskrit from world history. These people are moving fast! Although I currently live in Cambridge, I am not part of the university, nor involved in teaching or other activities here. To be honest, the organisation of the university is so labyrinthine that it is very hard for an outsider to understand anything, and it is impossible to find the actual names of responsible people. This is probably deliberate. The best information I have been able to put together about the closure of u/g Sanskrit here is as follows: The U of Camb. recently moved over to a new "Resource Allocation Model" (or "RAM": see http://tinyurl.com/ybvmla) whereby (stage one) central funds (quaintly called the "University Chest") are divided between the six university "Schools" on a completely automatic basis, and then (stage two) the chairmen and committees of the schools use the delegated financial authority to decide who will get what. (The six schools are described at http://tinyurl.com/yd5qjw; Sanskrit is taught in the Faculty of Oriental Studies, part of the school called Arts and Humanities.) It was obvious to insiders from the start of RAM planning several years ago that these changes would cause casualties, particularly among "small subjects", and the main RAM report of 2003 (http://tinyurl.com/ybvmla) explicitly mentions, The potential threat of a RAM to minority subjects (particularly in Arts and Humanities) and hence to the shape of the University. This statement is followed by some tangled prose in which a justification is attempted for doing nothing about trying to protect or even influence the acceptability of the academic shape of the university. The RAM Development Group stated that for political and financial reasons, The futility of designing the model to achieve acceptability become apparent. This is an extraordinary admission! To design a major financial system in such a manner that from the outset it is admittedly not fit for purpose in important respects. So nothing was done to mitigate the damage that was inevitable to minority subjects (although I note that item 23. in the Report does mention "Minority Subject Special Funding"). In any case, because of these major changes in funding structures, it is no longer possible for Cambridge University as a whole to have an academic policy, favouring this or that subject area for strategic, academic, or other reasons. All decisions are made on the basis of finance. As the Report states, interestingly, 2. All income is attributed to Schools and institutions 'as earned'. This may not reflect the University's value judgements but it does reflect our true sources of income and avoids arguments about value judgements. This statement seems to me to be a knowing abdication of any committment to guiding or judging the intellectual value of the university's activities. In other words, the University must be run as a profitable business, and must set aside attempts to judge the value of what it does to make money. As far as I can see, the "General Board of the Faculties" is the body responsible for the academic and educational policy of the University, and I do not understand the relationship between this Board and the new power centres of the Schools or the RAM. In any case, Sanskrit is apparently the first casualty of the new system. It has been decided by the officers of the Council of the School of Arts and Humanities (a) that the 1.5 posts in SA History be transferred from the Oriental Faculty to the History Faculty (where there is no guarantee that they will be filled in the SA field); (b) that the vacant Hindi lectureship not be refilled; (c) that the Hindi language instructor be moved to the Centre of SA Studies to do coaching for anthropologists etc., (d) that the two Sanskrit "incumbents" (Smith, Kahrs) be kept on in Oriental Studies (but not in either of the two departments that are being created, Far East and Middle East) till they retire. No undergraduate teaching to be done. Best, Dominik On Mon, 16 Oct 2006, Tenzin Bob Thurman wrote: > This is truly shocking. And the chair abolished since the time of > Brough! Who makes such decisions? OIs there anything good that letters > from outside could accomplish? Anyone in authority who would care about > the disgrace of a major university in this world abandoning the study of > Sanskrit? RAFT From richard.gombrich at BALLIOL.OX.AC.UK Fri Oct 20 10:56:39 2006 From: richard.gombrich at BALLIOL.OX.AC.UK (Richard Gombrich) Date: Fri, 20 Oct 06 11:56:39 +0100 Subject: Fwd: Sanskrit teaching at Cambridge to end Message-ID: <161227078560.23782.16537800717222714342.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> > >> Hermann Tull suggests that Indologists (in the West) have not been >> good at advertising Sanskrit. I agree. I hope that the Clay >> Sanskrit Library may be making at least a small contribution in >> this direction. See www.claysanskritlibrary.org. >> >> Richard Gombrich >> >> >> > > From mccomas.taylor at ANU.EDU.AU Fri Oct 20 02:42:43 2006 From: mccomas.taylor at ANU.EDU.AU (McComas Taylor) Date: Fri, 20 Oct 06 12:42:43 +1000 Subject: Not all bad news: Sanskrit in Canberra Message-ID: <161227078558.23782.1431167299437406.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> I am pleased to report that Sanskrit is very much alive at the Australian National University, Canberra, where we continue to offer an undergraduate Major in Sanskrit. We have been enjoying a fruitful collaboration with the Unviersity of Sydney for a number of years in the joint provision of Sanskrit education. Enrolments have never been large, but Sanskrit students, here as elsewhere, are better measured in terms of quality than quantity. We are very proud of the incorporation of Spoken Sanskrit in our curriculum, and while maintaining the highest standards of rigour in regard to the teaching of formal grammar, we tailor courses to the needs of contemporary students: yoga teachers and students, practitioners of Indian spiritual traditions, heritage students, etc. This is all taking place within an upsurge in South Asian studies at the ANU in general, fostered by a number of significant appointments and new structural arrangements in this field. We are expecting to annuonce the re-establishment of a South Asia Centre within the Faculty of Asian Studies in the very future. We are planning the first national gathering of Australian Sanskritists in Canberra in June 2007. jaya saMskRtam ! Apologies for cross-postings and happy Divali! From vielle at ORI.UCL.AC.BE Fri Oct 20 13:06:46 2006 From: vielle at ORI.UCL.AC.BE (Christophe Vielle) Date: Fri, 20 Oct 06 15:06:46 +0200 Subject: Pre-William Jones Western commentaries on Sanskrit works In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227078562.23782.5885760188913686029.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Dear colleagues, In N.V.P. Unithiri, Studies in Kerala Sanskrit Literature, 2004, Calicut Sanskrit Series 23, in his chapter on "Christian contribution to Sanskrit literature of Kerala" (pp. 139-140), I read that * the Jesuit J.E. Hanxleden "well known as Arnos Padiri in Malayalam", "[who] studied Sanskrit from two Namboodiris from /Sa;nkaraacaarya's birth-place, Kaala.ti", besides a Sanskrit grammar and a dictionnary (on which see J.-C. Muller, BEI 1985, pp. 131-134) as well as r?sum?s of several Sanskrit works (what I did not know), would also have written "[a] Latin work on the celebrated rhyming poem Yudhi.s.thiravijaya", * the Jesuit Paulinus a Sancto Bartholomaeo, "well known as Paulinus Padiri", besides his well known works (Sanskrit grammar, etc.), would also have written "[a] study on Maagha's /Si/supaalavadha mahaakaavya (Celeberranum poem a Maaga Samscrdanum [sic!])". If anybody has more information about one or the other of these mysterious works, possibly lost, I would be happy to hear about it. Dr. Christophe Vielle Centre d'Etudes de l'Inde et de l'Asie du Sud Institut orientaliste, Universit? de Louvain Place Blaise Pascal 1 B - 1348 Louvain-la-Neuve BELGIUM Tel. +32-(0)10-47 49 54 or 58 (office)/ -(0)2-640 62 66 (home) E-mail: christophe.vielle at uclouvain.be From theodor at RESEARCH.HAIFA.AC.IL Fri Oct 20 14:34:21 2006 From: theodor at RESEARCH.HAIFA.AC.IL (Ithamar Theodor) Date: Fri, 20 Oct 06 16:34:21 +0200 Subject: Sanskrit teaching at Cambridge to end Message-ID: <161227078565.23782.4613128966712011001.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Very impressive, indeed. Ithamar Theodor ----- Original Message ----- From: "Richard Gombrich" To: Sent: Friday, October 20, 2006 12:56 PM Subject: Fwd: Sanskrit teaching at Cambridge to end > > >>> Hermann Tull suggests that Indologists (in the West) have not been >>> good at advertising Sanskrit. I agree. I hope that the Clay >>> Sanskrit Library may be making at least a small contribution in >>> this direction. See www.claysanskritlibrary.org. >>> >>> Richard Gombrich >>> >>> >>> >> >> > From pwyzlic at UNI-BONN.DE Fri Oct 20 14:38:13 2006 From: pwyzlic at UNI-BONN.DE (Peter Wyzlic) Date: Fri, 20 Oct 06 16:38:13 +0200 Subject: Pre-William Jones Western commentaries on Sanskrit works In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227078567.23782.5912767286733156451.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> On Fri, 20 Oct 2006 15:06:46 +0200 Christophe Vielle wrote: > * the Jesuit Paulinus a Sancto Bartholomaeo, "well known >as Paulinus > Padiri", besides his well known works (Sanskrit >grammar, etc.), would also > have written "[a] study on Maagha's /Si/supaalavadha >mahaakaavya > (Celeberranum poem a Maaga Samscrdanum [sic!])". This one is listed among the unpublished works of Paulinus by Leopold Wetzel (1936). See Wetzel, Leopold: Der ?sterreichische Karmelit Paulinus ? S. Bartholomaeo: Pers?nlichkeit und Werk. Wien 1936, p. 97 (No. 34). According to Wetzel it belongs to a set of three works: 1. Celeberrimum poema Maga Samscrdam. - 2. De sex divinis attributis Carmen sermone Malabarico-samscrdamico contra Polytheistas Indos. - 3. Vita S. M. Theresiae a Jesu versibus Samscrdamico-Malabaricis composita a P. Paulino. 1783 In 1936, when Wetzel wrote his book, the manuscripts were stored in the Bibliotheca Vittorio Emanuele (Bibl. Nazionale), Roma, and in the Library and Archive of the Carmelites in Rome (Wetzel, p. 91) Hope it helps, Peter Wyzlic -- Indologisches Seminar der Universit?t Bonn Regina-Pacis-Weg 7 D-53113 Bonn Deutschland / Germany From pwyzlic at UNI-BONN.DE Fri Oct 20 15:28:42 2006 From: pwyzlic at UNI-BONN.DE (Peter Wyzlic) Date: Fri, 20 Oct 06 17:28:42 +0200 Subject: Pre-William Jones Western commentaries on Sanskrit works In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227078569.23782.13324370641256361617.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> On Fri, 20 Oct 2006 16:38:13 +0200 Peter Wyzlic wrote: > Wetzel, Leopold: Der ?sterreichische Karmelit Paulinus ? >S. Bartholomaeo: Pers?nlichkeit und Werk. Wien 1936, p. >97 (No. 34). Ah, sorry, that should read: Wetzl, not "Wetzel". Peter Wyzlic -- Indologisches Seminar der Universit?t Bonn Regina-Pacis-Weg 7 D-53113 Bonn Deutschland / Germany From vielle at ORI.UCL.AC.BE Fri Oct 20 15:34:03 2006 From: vielle at ORI.UCL.AC.BE (Christophe Vielle) Date: Fri, 20 Oct 06 17:34:03 +0200 Subject: Pre-William Jones Western commentaries on Sanskrit works In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227078573.23782.13549386219387110875.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Thank you very much for this very useful reference, and sorry for having qualified the Carmelite P.A.S.B. as a Jesuit (as Hanxleden was). In fact there is one Hanxleden's autograph ms. identified by J.-C. Muller (BEI 1985, p. 134) in Roma (Biblioteca Nazionale, Ms S. Maria di Scala 17, from the P.A.S.B. Collection) which bears the title "Yodhisthira", and which is described as "?pop?e en ?criture grantha". That could be related to his "Latin work on the celebrated rhyming poem Yudhi.s.thiravijaya" (maybe a copy of the original work). Best wishes, CV >This one is listed among the unpublished works of Paulinus >by Leopold Wetzel (1936). See > >Wetzl, Leopold: Der ?sterreichische Karmelit Paulinus ? >S. Bartholomaeo: Pers?nlichkeit und Werk. Wien 1936, p. 97 >(No. 34). > >According to Wetzel it belongs to a set of three works: >1. Celeberrimum poema Maga Samscrdam. - 2. De sex divinis >attributis Carmen sermone Malabarico-samscrdamico contra >Polytheistas Indos. - 3. Vita S. M. Theresiae a Jesu >versibus Samscrdamico-Malabaricis composita a P. Paulino. >1783 > >In 1936, when Wetzel wrote his book, the manuscripts were >stored in the Bibliotheca Vittorio Emanuele (Bibl. >Nazionale), Roma, and in the Library and Archive of the >Carmelites in Rome (Wetzel, p. 91) > >Hope it helps, > >Peter Wyzlic > >-- >Indologisches Seminar der >Universit?t Bonn >Regina-Pacis-Weg 7 >D-53113 Bonn >Deutschland / Germany Dr. Christophe Vielle Centre d'Etudes de l'Inde et de l'Asie du Sud Institut orientaliste, Universit? de Louvain Place Blaise Pascal 1 B - 1348 Louvain-la-Neuve BELGIUM Tel. +32-(0)10-47 49 54 or 58 (office)/ -(0)2-640 62 66 (home) E-mail: christophe.vielle at uclouvain.be From jkirk at SPRO.NET Sun Oct 22 15:59:33 2006 From: jkirk at SPRO.NET (jkirk) Date: Sun, 22 Oct 06 09:59:33 -0600 Subject: Asiatica and Mughal art -- p.s. Message-ID: <161227078582.23782.7549405372432251167.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> This link comes up blank-----can you refine it? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Enrica Garzilli" To: Sent: Sunday, October 22, 2006 7:02 AM Subject: Asiatica and Mughal art -- p.s. p.s. The link to the pictures is http://asiatica.org/misc/pleasure_gardens/ From garzilli at ASIATICA.ORG Sun Oct 22 13:00:12 2006 From: garzilli at ASIATICA.ORG (Enrica Garzilli) Date: Sun, 22 Oct 06 15:00:12 +0200 Subject: Asiatica and Mughal art Message-ID: <161227078576.23782.14673312512673780428.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Dear Colleagues, We have just published nine wonderful pictures and a presentation of the exhibition "Pleasure Gardens and Garden Tombs: Courtly Arts under the Mughals" held at the Museum fr Indische Kunst, Berlin - Dahlem (Germany). The exhibition is culled from significant German private collections and three of the Collections of the State Museums of Berlin. Enjoy! Enrica Garzilli ********************************************************** Dr. Enrica Garzilli University of Macerata, (Italy) Editor-in-Chief IJTS-JSAWS, Asiatica Association http://www.asiatica.org ********************************************************** From garzilli at ASIATICA.ORG Sun Oct 22 13:02:23 2006 From: garzilli at ASIATICA.ORG (Enrica Garzilli) Date: Sun, 22 Oct 06 15:02:23 +0200 Subject: Asiatica and Mughal art -- p.s. Message-ID: <161227078579.23782.16908563473856672872.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> p.s. The link to the pictures is http://asiatica.org/misc/pleasure_gardens/ ********************************************************** Dr. Enrica Garzilli University of Macerata, (Italy) Editor-in-Chief IJTS-JSAWS, Asiatica Association http://www.asiatica.org ********************************************************** ----- Original Message ----- From: Enrica Garzilli To: Multiple recipients of list RISA-L ; h-asiA at H-NET.MSU.EDU ; INDOLOGY at yahoogroups.com ; ScholarlyServices at yahoogroups.com ; Indology Sent: Sunday, October 22, 2006 3:00 PM Subject: Asiatica and Mughal art Dear Colleagues, We have just published nine wonderful pictures and a presentation of the exhibition "Pleasure Gardens and Garden Tombs: Courtly Arts under the Mughals" held at the Museum fr Indische Kunst, Berlin - Dahlem (Germany). The exhibition is culled from significant German private collections and three of the Collections of the State Museums of Berlin. Enjoy! Enrica Garzilli ********************************************************** Dr. Enrica Garzilli University of Macerata, (Italy) Editor-in-Chief IJTS-JSAWS, Asiatica Association http://www.asiatica.org ********************************************************** From garzilli at ASIATICA.ORG Mon Oct 23 06:41:12 2006 From: garzilli at ASIATICA.ORG (Enrica Garzilli) Date: Mon, 23 Oct 06 08:41:12 +0200 Subject: Asiatica and Mughal art -- p.s. Message-ID: <161227078585.23782.10281945632220468056.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Please try again, there may be problems on the international connection since the link is working for me. Could you please let us know? enrica ********************************************************** Dr. Enrica Garzilli University of Macerata, (Italy) Editor-in-Chief IJTS-JSAWS, Asiatica Association http://www.asiatica.org ********************************************************** ----- Original Message ----- From: "jkirk" To: Sent: Sunday, October 22, 2006 5:59 PM Subject: Re: Asiatica and Mughal art -- p.s. > This link comes up blank-----can you refine it? > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Enrica Garzilli" > To: > Sent: Sunday, October 22, 2006 7:02 AM > Subject: Asiatica and Mughal art -- p.s. > > > p.s. The link to the pictures is > http://asiatica.org/misc/pleasure_gardens/ > > From huntington.2 at OSU.EDU Mon Oct 23 17:05:47 2006 From: huntington.2 at OSU.EDU (John C. Huntington) Date: Mon, 23 Oct 06 13:05:47 -0400 Subject: Asiatica and Mughal art -- p.s. In-Reply-To: <003601c6f66e$3b2bcec0$8001a8c0@federicoiv> Message-ID: <161227078591.23782.6698573685302025856.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> your link comes up fine for me Using Mac G5, dual 2.7 Gig processor, 4 Gigs ram, and Safari browser BTW the portrait looks just like a portrait of Nur Jehan one of my students showed a presentation on her. I you are interested, I will habe her snd you a copy. JOhn John C. Huntington, Professor (Buddhist Art and Methodologies) http://tinyurl.com/kjyjk Please also visit our research site http://huntingtonarchive.osu.edu Department of the History of Art The Ohio State University Columbus, OH, U.S.A. On Oct 23, 2006, at 2:41 AM, Enrica Garzilli wrote: > Please try again, there may be problems on the international > connection since the link is working for me. Could you please let > us know? > > enrica > > ********************************************************** > Dr. Enrica Garzilli > University of Macerata, (Italy) > Editor-in-Chief IJTS-JSAWS, Asiatica Association > http://www.asiatica.org > ********************************************************** > ----- Original Message ----- From: "jkirk" > To: > Sent: Sunday, October 22, 2006 5:59 PM > Subject: Re: Asiatica and Mughal art -- p.s. > > >> This link comes up blank-----can you refine it? >> >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Enrica Garzilli" >> >> To: >> Sent: Sunday, October 22, 2006 7:02 AM >> Subject: Asiatica and Mughal art -- p.s. >> >> >> p.s. The link to the pictures is http://asiatica.org/misc/ >> pleasure_gardens/ >> From garzilli at ASIATICA.ORG Mon Oct 23 17:18:29 2006 From: garzilli at ASIATICA.ORG (Enrica Garzilli) Date: Mon, 23 Oct 06 19:18:29 +0200 Subject: Asiatica and Mughal art -- p.s. Message-ID: <161227078594.23782.15660541259183210142.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Thank you very much. In fact, I have received a few mails confirming that the link works just fine. The presentation of your student should be very interesting, tell her to put it online. We can add link in our main page. Best, enrica ********************************************************** Dr. Enrica Garzilli University of Macerata, (Italy) Editor-in-Chief IJTS-JSAWS, Asiatica Association http://www.asiatica.org ********************************************************** ----- Original Message ----- From: "John C. Huntington" To: Sent: Monday, October 23, 2006 7:05 PM Subject: Re: Asiatica and Mughal art -- p.s. > your link comes up fine for me > > Using > Mac G5, dual 2.7 Gig processor, 4 Gigs ram, and Safari browser > > BTW the portrait looks just like a portrait of Nur Jehan one of my > students showed a presentation on her. I you are interested, I will habe > her snd you a copy. > > JOhn > > > > John C. Huntington, Professor > (Buddhist Art and Methodologies) > http://tinyurl.com/kjyjk > Please also visit our research site > http://huntingtonarchive.osu.edu > Department of the History of Art > The Ohio State University > Columbus, OH, U.S.A. > > > > > > On Oct 23, 2006, at 2:41 AM, Enrica Garzilli wrote: > >> Please try again, there may be problems on the international connection >> since the link is working for me. Could you please let us know? >> >> enrica >> >> ********************************************************** >> Dr. Enrica Garzilli >> University of Macerata, (Italy) >> Editor-in-Chief IJTS-JSAWS, Asiatica Association >> http://www.asiatica.org >> ********************************************************** >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "jkirk" >> To: >> Sent: Sunday, October 22, 2006 5:59 PM >> Subject: Re: Asiatica and Mughal art -- p.s. >> >> >>> This link comes up blank-----can you refine it? >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Enrica Garzilli" >>> >>> To: >>> Sent: Sunday, October 22, 2006 7:02 AM >>> Subject: Asiatica and Mughal art -- p.s. >>> >>> >>> p.s. The link to the pictures is http://asiatica.org/misc/ >>> pleasure_gardens/ >>> > > From swantam at ASIANETINDIA.COM Mon Oct 23 16:09:12 2006 From: swantam at ASIANETINDIA.COM (Maheswaran Nair) Date: Mon, 23 Oct 06 21:39:12 +0530 Subject: chatting in Sanskrit Message-ID: <161227078588.23782.15923838808609582724.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Hallo friends, Those who wish to chat with me in Sanskrit may use my id arannair at yahoo.com Regards K.Maheswaran Nair University of Kerala India From mccomas.taylor at ANU.EDU.AU Mon Oct 23 23:14:06 2006 From: mccomas.taylor at ANU.EDU.AU (McComas Taylor) Date: Tue, 24 Oct 06 09:14:06 +1000 Subject: chatting in Sanskrit In-Reply-To: <20061023213912.gdpagm2qec08swkg@mail.asianetindia.com> Message-ID: <161227078596.23782.8482508917424171425.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> priya-maheswaran-nayar-mahodaya namo namaH evam astu . AvAM yahoo-dvArA saMbhASaNaM karavAva . ahaM zAyankAle bhavato 'nveSanaM kariSyAmi . iti bhavadIYaH McComas Maheswaran Nair wrote: > Hallo friends, > Those who wish to chat with me in Sanskrit may use my id > arannair at yahoo.com > Regards > K.Maheswaran Nair > University of Kerala > India -- =============================== Dr McComas Taylor Head, South Asia Centre Faculty of Asian Studies The Australian National University ACTON ACT 0200 Tel: +61 2 6125 3179 Fax: +61 2 6125 8326 Email: mccomas.taylor at anu.edu.au Location: Room E4.26 Baldessin Precinct Building From mccomas.taylor at ANU.EDU.AU Mon Oct 23 23:19:00 2006 From: mccomas.taylor at ANU.EDU.AU (McComas Taylor) Date: Tue, 24 Oct 06 09:19:00 +1000 Subject: Apologies Message-ID: <161227078599.23782.1734652996279439865.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Apologies for sending private mail to this list kSamyatAm =============================== Dr McComas Taylor Head, South Asia Centre Faculty of Asian Studies The Australian National University ACTON ACT 0200 Tel: +61 2 6125 3179 Fax: +61 2 6125 8326 Email: mccomas.taylor at anu.edu.au Location: Room E4.26 Baldessin Precinct Building From navadipanyaya at HOTMAIL.COM Wed Oct 25 08:27:22 2006 From: navadipanyaya at HOTMAIL.COM (JAGANADH GOPINADHAN) Date: Wed, 25 Oct 06 08:27:22 +0000 Subject: chatting in Sanskrit In-Reply-To: <20061023213912.gdpagm2qec08swkg@mail.asianetindia.com> Message-ID: <161227078601.23782.2462516197971492081.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Sir I think it is better to start a caht facility in sankrit attached to Indology or any such group. JAGANADH.G LINGUIST CDAC THIRUVANANTHAPURAM P-H+91 9895420624 E-MAIL- navadipanyaya at hotmail.com/jaganadhg at gmail.com http://sabdabodha.googlepages.com www.malayalammorph.blogspot.com www.malayalamresourcecenter.org From: Maheswaran Nair Reply-To: Indology To: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Subject: chatting in Sanskrit Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2006 21:39:12 +0530 Hallo friends, Those who wish to chat with me in Sanskrit may use my id arannair at yahoo.com Regards K.Maheswaran Nair University of Kerala India _________________________________________________________________ Shah Rukh fan? Know all about the Baadshah of Bollywood. On MSN Search http://server1.msn.co.in/profile/shahrukh.asp From s-sarbacker at NORTHWESTERN.EDU Fri Oct 27 03:53:44 2006 From: s-sarbacker at NORTHWESTERN.EDU (Stuart Ray Sarbacker) Date: Thu, 26 Oct 06 22:53:44 -0500 Subject: Yoga Consultation Program Message-ID: <161227078603.23782.14951734761586489219.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Dear Colleagues, I have included below our program for the inaugural sessions of the Yoga in Theory and Practice Consultation to be held during the American Academy of Religion Annual Meeting, November 18-26, 2006, in Washington D.C. I am pleased to tell you that our first call for papers was quite successful, and as a result we are having two sessions in the main program, and two that will be presented through the DANAM (Dharma Association of North America) sessions that run concurrently with the AAR meetings. The two AAR sessions deal with issues relating to the formation of "modern" yoga and the motivations behind contemporary yoga and tantra practice. We have brought together an eclectic group of panelists and presenters that I am certain will bring some quite varying and compelling ideas to the table on these topics. The two DANAM sessions deal with broader questions in defining "yoga" or the plurality of "yogas," and the more topical question of what possible relationships exist between yoga and ecological practice and discourse. Given the historical moment (both in terms of the larger "zeitgeist," and within our disciplines), we anticipate that these will be quite energetic panels. I have posted the information on the sessions below. Hope to see you in Washington. Best Wishes, Stuart Sarbacker Northwestern University ***** A18-131 Yoga in Theory and Practice Consultation Saturday - 4:00 pm-6:30 pm CC209B Stuart R. Sarbacker, Northwestern University, Presiding Theme: Construction and Transcendence in Modern Yoga Panelists: Sarah Strauss, University of Wyoming Elizabeth DeMichelis, Cambridge University N.E. Sjoman, Calgary, Alberta Joseph Alter, University of Pittsburgh Responding: Christopher Chapple, Loyola Marymount University Business Meeting: Stuart R. Sarbacker, Northwestern University, Presiding Christopher Chapple, Loyola Marymount University, Presiding A19-93 New Religious Movements Group and Yoga in Theory and Practice Consultation Sunday - 3:00 pm-4:30 pm CC209B Lloyd Pflueger, Truman State University, Presiding Theme: Embodiment, Empowerment, and Commodification in Contemporary Yoga and Tantra Shreena Gandhi, University of Florida The Practice of Yoga in the US: Bridging the Mind and Body and Religion and the Market Klas Nevrin, University of Stockholm Empowerment and Embodiment in Modern Yoga: Styles and Modes of Postural Practice in Ashtanga Vinyasa Training Michelle Demeter, University of South Florida Yoga: Its Transmission and Commodification in the United States Madhu Khanna, Indira Gandhi National Centre for the Arts Whose Tantra? Reimagining Bazari Tantra as a Significant Category of Discourse in the Study of Tantrism Responding: Richard King, Vanderbilt University AM17-54 Dharma Association of North America (DANAM) ? Session Yoga 1 Friday 1:00pm ? 3:45pm Grand Hyatt Washington - Burnham Re-imagining Yoga, Imagining Yoga-s Jeffrey C. Ruff, Marshall University, Convener Ramdas Lamb, University of Hawaii at Manoa, Presiding Jeffrey C. Ruff, Marshall University Re-imagining Yoga, Imagining Yoga-s Ian Whicher, University of Manitoba Kaivalya in the Yoga Sutra: Ultimate Disengagement or Engagement? Sthaneshwar Timalsina, San Diego State University Nath Yoga: Union of the Body and the Cosmos Jeffrey Stephen Lidke, Berry College The Royal Wisdom: Power or Transcendence? That is the question Alfred Collins, Anchorage, AK Dharma Cloud Samadhi: The Other Side of Release (kaivalya) in Patanjali's Yoga Sutra and the Samkhya Karika Beverley Foulks, Harvard University Super Samskara-s: Soteriological Subliminal Impressions in Patanjali's Yoga-Sutra AM19-20 Dharma Association of North America (DANAM) ?Session Yoga 2 Sunday 9:00am ? 11:45am Grand Hyatt Washington - Burnham Yoga and Ecology Christopher Chapple, Loyola Marymount University, Convener Daniel Michon, Loyola Marymount University, Presiding Knut Axel Jacobsen, University of Bergen The Disharmony of Interdependence: Samkhya-Yoga and Ecology Christopher Chapple, Loyola Marymount University Connecting Body, Senses, and Elements: Yoga and the Process of Ecological Restoration Vijaya Nagarajan, University of San Francisco Yoga as Metaphor: Ecology, the Feminine, and the Kolam Laura Cornell, California Institute of Integral Studies A Model for Eight Paths of Green Yoga Suzanne Ironbiter, SUNY Purchase College Yoga and Nature: Vital Concentration in Atharva Veda Stuart Ray Sarbacker Northwestern University s-sarbacker at northwestern.edu http://www.religion.northwestern.edu/faculty/sarbacker.html From witzel at FAS.HARVARD.EDU Sat Oct 28 14:40:34 2006 From: witzel at FAS.HARVARD.EDU (Michael Witzel) Date: Sat, 28 Oct 06 10:40:34 -0400 Subject: job at U. Alberta (Indian History) Message-ID: <161227078606.23782.11964723320623465371.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> New position in Classical Indian Polity and Society, 500 BCE-500 CE: --------- The Department of History and Classics in the Faculty of Arts, University of Alberta, invites applications for the Saroj and Prem Singhmar Chair in Classical Indian Polity and Society, 500 BCE-500 CE. This is an endowed Chair, the occupant of which will be appointed at the rank of Full Professor. Research specialization is open, but the candidate should anticipate teaching courses that broadly cover the history, ideas, and practices of this period. Competence in Sanskrit and at least one modern Indian language (excluding English and Urdu) is required, and the ideal candidate will have knowledge of modern Indian political life. The successful candidate will have aproven record of excellence in teaching and graduate supervision, and a distinguished research career. The successful applicant will join a dynamic Department with strengths in both history and classics (www.uofaweb.ualberta.ca/historyandclassics) and will participate in developing a new graduate program in Ancient Civilizations. Equally, this position will support the Faculty-wide development of research strength in South Asia. The University of Alberta aims to be one of the world?s great universities, by transforming learning, leading ground-breaking research, and uplifting society through new knowledge, leadership, and service. The University plays a key role in the educational, business, and cultural life of the province of Alberta and Canada as a whole, through the impact of its integrated mandate of teaching, research, and community service. With more than 35,500 students and 12,000 staff, the University grants almost 7,500 degrees annually to graduates of 200 undergraduate and 170 graduate programs. Aresearchintensive, medical-doctoral, multi-campus institution, the University of Alberta offers a full range of academic and professional programs and has designated 26 areas of established and emerging research excellence. Greater Edmonton, with nearly one million residents in the city and surrounding communities, offers a unique quality of life and economic combination, a beautiful, park-like setting on a spectacular river valley, low cost of living, the lowest provincial tax regime in the country, affordable housing, and is consistently Canada?s fastest growing economy. Edmonton has all the attractions of a big city; yet it is clean, safe, and liveable. Health care in Greater Edmonton, under the auspices of Capital Health, was rated #1 in 2003 by Maclean?s magazine and is ranked in the top three percent of North America?s largest cities. Edmonton, the political and administrative capital of Alberta and a gateway to the north, boasts 78 arts and cultural organizations including the Edmonton Symphony Orchestra, Edmonton Opera, Citadel Theatre (top-rated in North America), and a score of other professional theatre groups. Greater Edmonton is Canada?s Festival City, with more than 30 arts and cultural festivals taking place each year. Applications, including a curriculum vitae, the names of three referees, and sample publications, should be sent by mail to: Dr.Daniel Woolf, Dean of Arts Chair, Selection Committee for Singhmar Chair c/o Office of the Dean of Arts Humanities Centre 6-33 University of Alberta Edmonton, Alberta, Canada T6G 2E5 Candidates should also ensure that three letters of reference are sent directly by the referees to the above address. Applications received by January 15, 2007 will be assured of consideration. Interviews will begin as soon thereafter as possible. Salary will be commensurate with qualifications and experience. All qualified candidates are encouraged to apply; however,Canadians and permanent residents will be given priority. If suitable Canadian citizens and permanent residents cannot be found, other individuals will be considered. The University of Alberta hires on the basis of merit. Weare committed to the principle of equity in employment. We welcome diversity and encourage applications from all qualified women and men, including persons with disabilities, members of visible minorities, and Aboriginal persons. Singhmar Chair in Classical Indian Polity and Society (500 BCE - 500 CE) Michael Witzel Department of Sanskrit and Indian Studies, Harvard University 1 Bow Street , 3rd floor, Cambridge MA 02138 1-617-495 3295 Fax: 496 8571 direct line: 496 2990 < < http://users.primushost.com/~india/ejvs/> From jrasik at COLMEX.MX Mon Oct 30 15:23:37 2006 From: jrasik at COLMEX.MX (Rasik Vihari Joshi Tripathi) Date: Mon, 30 Oct 06 09:23:37 -0600 Subject: Looking? Message-ID: <161227078613.23782.2434344670748307449.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> I refer you to read my books on Krishaism 1El rituel de la devotion Krishnite, Pondochery, India, 1959. 2.Upaasanaa-chintaamani,4 volumes (8 parts), Chaumkhamba, Delhgi, 2003-4. 3. Raadha-sahasra-naama,2 volumes, Chaukhamba,2005. 4. Raadhaaa-panchashatii,Delhi,1993 Rasik Vihari Joshi -----Mensaje original----- De: Indology [mailto:INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk] En nombre de Horacio Francisco Arganis Juarez Enviado el: Lunes, 30 de Octubre de 2006 07:39 a.m. Para: INDOLOGY at liverpool.ac.uk Asunto: Looking? Dear Professors: Pranams! I am looking for this works on Krishnology', on-line, e-mails for contact, etc. Guy Beck, a well published scholar on Hinduism in general, and on Krishna in particular, has published on the Krishnology of the Vaishnava sect known as the Radha-vallabhaSampradaya. Dr. Beck expounds upon this research in his book Alternative Krishnas: Regional and Vernacular Variations on a Hindu Deity. Through this research he establishes the Krishnology of the Radhavallabha sampradaya. Tamala Krishna Gosvami, a Hindu studies scholar and Vaishnava guru, elaborated on this term during his research at the University of Cambridge. While a doctoral student, Tamala Krishna Gosvami studied under Dr. Julius J. Lipner and devoted his time to researching the 'Krishnology' of ISKCON's founder. Sincerily. Prfr. Horacio Francisco Arganis-Juarez M.A. Researcher from U A de c; IEFAC; IBCH. Saltillo. Coah. Northest of Mexico. ___________________________________________________________________ Sube tus fotos m?s divertidas a enbloga.com From ucgadkw at UCL.AC.UK Mon Oct 30 11:21:04 2006 From: ucgadkw at UCL.AC.UK (Dominik Wujastyk) Date: Mon, 30 Oct 06 11:21:04 +0000 Subject: plans for an INDOLOGY FAQ Message-ID: <161227078608.23782.16677284240339028852.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Dear colleagues, I've long thought that INDOLOGY should have a modest "FAQ". At last, with Richard Mahoney's help, we're beginning to have something that we can use. The idea is that we'll have a FAQ mounted on the INDOLOGY website, indology.info. It will be cooperatively written by any of us (we?) list members that wish to contribute. If you wanted to do an entry, for example, you would go to the website, call up the FAQ pages and online editor, write what you wanted and submit it. The text will then be assessed by the members of the INDOLOGY list committee. Or perhaps just the member on duty that week. Anyhow, all being well, it will then be published, and will appear as a new page of the FAQ. The idea is that the FAQ will present brief statements of the best available professional information on selected indological topics, with references to further reading and pointers to other resources as appropriate. It will be open to the public. It would have been nice to do this at Wikipedia, but that forum is not subject to professional editorial control, and entries are unstable and vulnerable to wholesale organised rewriting by pak.sapaatins To start the ball rolling, I'll add a series of stubs to an "alpha release" version of the FAQ, just section headings to suggest how entries could be organised. Please send headings that you would like to see in such a FAQ, marked hierarchically if you like. For example: Chronology / Indus Valley / Veda /Epics /Naage.sa Bhatttta Sciences / jyoti.sa Palaeography / Brahmi / Siddhamat.rkaa Or something completely different. Best wishes, Dominik INDOLOGY committee member From arganis at TODITO.COM Mon Oct 30 13:39:00 2006 From: arganis at TODITO.COM (Horacio Francisco Arganis Juarez) Date: Mon, 30 Oct 06 13:39:00 +0000 Subject: Looking? Message-ID: <161227078610.23782.7010405416986623875.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Dear Professors: Pranams! I am looking for this works on Krishnology', on-line, e-mails for contact, etc. Guy Beck, a well published scholar on Hinduism in general, and on Krishna in particular, has published on the Krishnology of the Vaishnava sect known as the Radha-vallabhaSampradaya. Dr. Beck expounds upon this research in his book Alternative Krishnas: Regional and Vernacular Variations on a Hindu Deity. Through this research he establishes the Krishnology of the Radhavallabha sampradaya. Tamala Krishna Gosvami, a Hindu studies scholar and Vaishnava guru, elaborated on this term during his research at the University of Cambridge. While a doctoral student, Tamala Krishna Gosvami studied under Dr. Julius J. Lipner and devoted his time to researching the 'Krishnology' of ISKCON's founder. Sincerily. Prfr. Horacio Francisco Arganis-Juarez M.A. Researcher from U A de c; IEFAC; IBCH. Saltillo. Coah. Northest of Mexico. ___________________________________________________________________ Sube tus fotos m?s divertidas a enbloga.com From rubberjoel at SAFE-MAIL.NET Tue Oct 31 15:06:05 2006 From: rubberjoel at SAFE-MAIL.NET (joel) Date: Tue, 31 Oct 06 10:06:05 -0500 Subject: kSatriya bibliography In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <161227078615.23782.7440159527381894901.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Hello. I am soliciting recommendations for a English language bibliography specifically on kSatriyas. Any suggestions are most welcome. Thanks, Joel Bordeaux Religion Columbia University From kengo.harimoto at UNI-HAMBURG.DE Tue Oct 31 19:34:57 2006 From: kengo.harimoto at UNI-HAMBURG.DE (Kengo Harimoto) Date: Tue, 31 Oct 06 20:34:57 +0100 Subject: NGMCP Newsletter, No. 2 Message-ID: <161227078618.23782.17553798598021696631.generated@prod2.harmonylists.io> Dear Colleagues, The Nepalese-German Manuscript Cataloguing Project (NGMCP) is pleased to announce the second issue of _The Newsletter of the NGMCP_. PDF versions of the Newsletter are now available at the University of Hamburg website: http://www.uni-hamburg.de/fachbereiche-einrichtungen/indologie/ngmcp/ newsletter_e.html or if the site has not been updated, one can obtain the PDF files directly from: http://134.100.72.204:3000/newsletter/ngmcpnl2_light.pdf (about 1 MB, with low resolution graphics for onscreen viewing and printing at home/office) http://134.100.72.204:3000/newsletter/ngmcpnl2.pdf (about 5 MB, with high resolution graphics) ------ Contents of The Newsletter of the NGMCP, No. 2, October 2006: "Editorial" by Harunaga Isaacson "A Brief Note on Har?ap?la's Commentary on the Prakrit K?vya Setubandha" by Diwakar Acharya "Bilingual Sanskrit-Tibetan Glosses in a Nepalese MS of the Ratna?r???k?" by Dragomir Dimitrov "Some Highlights of the Work of a `Frequent User? of the NGMPP (II)" by Michael Hahn "Book announcements" "The The ??mabheda of Mahe?vara (Part 1)" by Oliver Hahn "NGMCP Online Database" by Kengo Harimoto -------------------- The NGMCP is a project funded by the Deutsche Forschungsgemeinschaft (German Research Foundation). For correspondence: NGMCP Abteilung f?r Kultur und Geschichte Indiens und Tibets Asien-Afrika-Institut Universit?t Hamburg Edmund-Siemers-Allee 1 (Hauptgeb?ude) D-20146 Hamburg Germany E-mail: ngmcp at uni-hamburg.de Telephone: +49 40 42838-6269 -------------------- (A word on the web pages of the NGMCP hosted at the University of Hamburg website: We are currently reorganizing/updating information on the NGMCP. We do not guarantee the accuracy of information found on the site.) -- Dr. Kengo Harimoto kengo.harimoto at uni-hamburg.de Nepalese-German Manuscript Cataloguing Project Abteilung fuer Sprache und Kultur Indiens und Tibets Universitaet Hamburg - Asien-Afrika-Institut Edmund-Siemers-Allee 1 HG 20146 Hamburg phone: +49-40-42838-6269